# When Will They Learn?



## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

But if they can't rush into the weigh-in with their $120k boat so they can all have a circle jerk, then it wouldn't be any fun.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sublime said:


> But if they can't rush into the weigh-in with their $120k boat so they can all have a circle jerk, then it wouldn't be any fun.


They could still do that with a CPR format like many tournaments do. The fish go right back in the water where they were caught, no hauling them around in the livewell.


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## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but even your CCA STAR in Texas is a release only this year, right? And no trout division?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Copahee Hound said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, but even your CCA STAR in Texas is a release only this year, right? And no trout division?


Yessir


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Damn fools. There is zero reason to have a kill tournament unless it is an invasive removal effort, especially on specks in the middle and lower Texas coasts. I'm sure the so called experts they consulted were all croaker soakers saying, "oh yeah, we're catching plenty of fish (read: I'm making plenty of money raping the resource because I'm a self fish greedy bastard). Until leaders in the saltwater fishing community (I am talking about guides mostly) start pushing more catch and release instead of hero kill shots, the situation will not improve. 
As an example, it took over a decade for the mindset to change in freshwater bass fishing and that was with legends like Roland Martin and Jimmy Houston pushing for CPR on a nationwide syndicated fishing tv show. Have a look at the video of April Vokey and Roland Martin on Youtube.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

Go kill some Asian carp.


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## TX_maverick (Oct 26, 2020)

I knew back in February when these guides and tourney hounds were "claiming" they would CPR trout for the rest of the year, was going to last about as long as it did. Matagorda fish tables are still being filled daily, you just don't see it being posted as much. They are now just slaying reds and drum.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

anytide said:


> Go kill some Asian carp.


Racist!🤣


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Sublime said:


> But if they can't rush into the weigh-in with their $120k boat so they can all have a circle jerk, then it wouldn't be any fun.





Smackdaddy53 said:


> They could still do that with a CPR format like many tournaments do. The fish go right back in the water where they were caught, no hauling them around in the livewell.


Could easily be done! Do the CPR tournament with a timed “weigh in” where all boats must be at check in by whenever O’clock and this is the time they upload photos and measurements! Easy peasy!


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

They're back at it on the LLM as well. C&R floats over like a lead balloon with our "natives".


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

RJTaylor said:


> They're back at it on the LLM as well. C&R floats over like a lead balloon with our "natives".


Not surprised.


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## BrownDog (Jun 22, 2019)

Sublime said:


> But if they can't rush into the weigh-in with their $120k boat so they can all have a circle jerk, then it wouldn't be any fun.


What happens at weigh in, stays at weigh in...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

BrownDog said:


> What happens at weigh in, stays at weigh in...


One reason why I will never buy anything from Waterloo.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

How can you pull your “special” fish out of the box at the last minute in that format? Most of local ones I ever fished were fixed to some degree ESP on door prizes.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Man, I really despise governmental interference but I would be 100% fine if the government banned kill tournaments of anything but invasive species.


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## TX_maverick (Oct 26, 2020)

I heard the Matagorda Guides Cup was done using a CPR app. Most people were said to enjoy the format.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

This summer is going to be very interesting. All the true conservationists will stand out as will the greedy assholes that are only in it for money and instagram hero shots with their flatbills and fingers in every fish’s gills or boga through the jaws of the fish they pose with.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Our local CCA chapter is holding a our Inaugural tourney this June. It wasn't even considered to have a kill tourney, CPR only. We are partnering with iAngler and all submissions will be done through the app. There are plenty of apps out there for tourney people to use.


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## turbosaaber (Feb 20, 2019)

Could this be a case of doing nothing is easier than change even when change is needed? I see it where I work all the time...frustrating to say the least.


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

This is what killed Cobia fishing along the gulf. Everywhere had to have their kill tournament. The Cobia fishing has been awful for years because everyone moron with a boat and a ladder started doing it.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I fished this middle Texas coast tournament a couple times over a decade ago and still get the email invites each summer. After the amount of fish we lost this winter to the freeze I can’t believe people are still holding kill tournaments and acting like there is nothing wrong with it. Edited to preserve privacy.
> 
> My reply:
> View attachment 173328
> ...


I love that she double quoted "experts".

I think she means sponsors and organizers that are getting paid.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Jason M said:


> I love that she double quoted "experts".
> 
> I think she means sponsors and organizers that are getting paid.


 they will win the door prizes for certain!


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## txredfly (Sep 10, 2015)

Total BS smack. Seems like most “dudes” don’t get it. Some guides down here in Corpus are still posting the glory shots on Insta. WTF! Anytime I say anything I’m told to shut up and mind my own business. I remember the 80’s and they sucked. There is a lot more pressure now on the resource and these kill tournaments definitely don’t help things.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

txredfly said:


> Total BS smack. Seems like most “dudes” don’t get it. Some guides down here in Corpus are still posting the glory shots on Insta. WTF! Anytime I say anything I’m told to shut up and mind my own business. I remember the 80’s and they sucked. There is a lot more pressure now on the resource and these kill tournaments definitely don’t help things.


Greed and glamour


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

These are the same kind of special person that burns a flat in a jet ski, doesn’t return their shopping cart, and wears a mask while driving


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

There ought to be a captains/guides association that accredits people that run boats. If you post hero kill shots, you’re gone. Unfortunately I don’t think the general public would be any the wiser.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> There ought to be a captains/guides association that accredits people that run boats. If you post hero kill shots, you’re gone. Unfortunately I don’t think the general public would be any the wiser.


Otter be a lot of things done differently but sadly these days the guides are most of the worst ones about conservation, at least around here. People lose their friggin’ minds when you tell them that tournaments should be regulated, they need to only run one trip a day and push their clients to only keep what they can eat that day instead of full limits every trip. People don’t like regulation but most people can’t regulate themselves so it’s something that is inevitable if we are going to keep our resource healthy. Hell we can’t even get TPWD to make any decent decisions until AFTER a fish kill or AFTER guys are caught herding fish in boats or AFTER a species starts to decline. No one is proactive, only reactive. All these dipshit guides that talked all that shit about not keeping fish or letting clients keep fish for a year were right back at it a week after the freeze. People are generally greedy pieces of shit...sad but true.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Raise enough money to out prize the kill tournament and hold a catfish tournament the very same days. It’s an idea.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

This should be internally regulated by fisherman, if you do this in the bass world you are an idiot. Universally it should be shunned on coastal waters as well. If folks posted those glamour shots and only looked like a shitbag, they would not do it as much.

The only issue I have with more government regulations is that they always show the ability to f&@$ it up. Many reasons for this but it will happen most likely. I mean, they don’t enforce the laws out there now.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

tourneys are for the people...
guides and capts. shouldnt be allowed to enter,, same goes for corporate sponsors.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

anytide said:


> tourneys are for the people...
> guides and capts. shouldnt be allowed to enter,, same goes for corporate sponsors.


Tournaments should be regulated. Three or foyr days a week down here there are multiple tournaments going on at the same time from the same five ramps. It gets old.


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> they need to only run one trip a day and push their clients to only keep what they can eat that day instead of full limits every trip.


If they don't "limit out" they may have to actually give their clients a full-day trip! Insanity!
(ps - sarcasm...)


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

mommas day tarpon tourney here in boca grande....
sharks eat 90% of the kill ..,, but the beaches stink of death so bad you cant go there for weeks.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

anytide said:


> mommas day tarpon tourney here in boca grande....
> sharks eat 90% of the kill ..,, but the beaches stink of death so bad you cant go there for weeks.


Yep, spent bridge poon are easy meals just like live weigh in fish that have been hauled around in a livewell for twenty miles, roughed up then dropped in the nearest boat ramp by the cleaning tables where dolphins hang out.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

CKEAT said:


> This should be internally regulated by fisherman, if you do this in the bass world you are an idiot. Universally it should be shunned on coastal waters as well. If folks posted those glamour shots and only looked likeshitbag, they would not do it as much.
> 
> The only issue I have with more government regulations is that they always show the ability to f&@$ it up. Many reasons for this but it will happen most likely. I mean, they don’t enforce the laws out there now.


I have posted several times about bass guys coming here and killing fish as a rule. Same dudes would want to fight about killing slot bass on our trophy lakes. The only thing that MAY be understood are regulations. While bass fishing enjoys their CPR, there are many regs that point folks that way. I absolutely love the new format bass tourneys have with live weigh-ins on the boat. Those were generated by slot regs on trophy lakes and the tourneys wanting to fish those lakes. 

seems easy to me. Treat each body of water like a lake,set slots/limits based on science (could be harvest or trophy) and move on.
What we aren’t speaking of is the $$ going to hatcheries that are the employment of the folks who “make” the science of what we should do with coastal fisheries. Those folks are genuine in my experience, but they are paid to produce biomass for consumption...


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## reedriley8 (Sep 3, 2020)

Don’t even get me started about Louisiana. If the guides or recreational anglers don’t get 25 trout in the ice chest PER PERSON...it’s considered a bad day. Then they complain about how it’s not like the good ole days. The irony....

can’t even worry about the tournaments here yet when there’s thousands of trout and reds being taken home every single weekend. I’m sure this is a conversation that’s been had many times on this site before. I just felt like complaining today.


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## POCtied (Oct 19, 2016)

Smack, have you posted this to 2Cool yet...

No point arguing with fools


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

POCtied said:


> Smack, have you posted this to 2Cool yet...
> 
> No point arguing with fools


I don’t even get on any of those any more. Bunch of clowns.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

POCtied said:


> Smack, have you posted this to 2Cool yet...
> 
> No point arguing with fools


I posted over there a week ago or so with a CPR, empty stringers, conservation and self regulation now or there won't be any tomorrow type post. Absolute crickets from them. It pains me to see the myopic stupidity of folks with full limits of fish 'artisitically' laid out on the deck of the boat or the classic stringer heaved over the shoulder hero shot.


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## omegadef (Jul 10, 2011)

reedriley8 said:


> Don’t even get me started about Louisiana. If the guides or recreational anglers don’t get 25 trout in the ice chest PER PERSON...it’s considered a bad day. Then they complain about how it’s not like the good ole days. The irony....
> 
> can’t even worry about the tournaments here yet when there’s thousands of trout and reds being taken home every single weekend. I’m sure this is a conversation that’s been had many times on this site before. I just felt like complaining today.


I really wish they would drop the limit. Should have an upper limit at 20" as well. 
They need to limit sheepshead soon. Too many people are killing them every trip.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

I also wish every ataye would issue a lower non resident bag and POSSESSION limit! Would really help with the northern meat haulers coming down and loading up coolers to take home! I am all for keeping fish, but damn! Might as well start allowing gill netting again in Florida at the rate some of these folks are taking fish!


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## WC53 (Dec 2, 2015)

There was a reason every fishing show for a decade was CnR only. Fishing sucked and they had to make CnR cool. Now every show has to fill up that fancy cooler  to pay that advertising gas bill. 
But I’m old and cranky, get off of my lawn, and while your at it, get your elfing tent and chairs off the launch!


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

They really should be ashamed of themselves! We lost around 3.3 million fish, right? Ignorance is rampant!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Matts said:


> They really should be ashamed of themselves! We lost around 3.3 million fish, right? Ignorance is rampant!


I bet it was more than that. Yes, they should be ashamed. A dead fish for a weigh in is worthless. 23” maximum trout for weigh in?!? Do the dumbasses not know that those lower 20” trout are crucial for procreating?


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

For my part I have no problem someone keeping a fish now and then for dinner. Tournaments which have live weigh ins, to me should be things of the past and no longer practiced. Yesterday I was reading about "competitive fly fishing" I almost threw up. That is to my thinking words which should not be used in the same sentence together.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Gadaboutgaddis said:


> For my part I have no problem someone keeping a fish now and then for dinner. Tournaments which have live weigh ins, to me should be things of the past and no longer practiced. Yesterday I was reading about "competitive fly fishing" I almost threw up. That is to my thinking words which should not be used in the same sentence together.


We just had a massive fish kill due to the freeze. I am fine with keeping a few fish too but the kill tournaments have always been a problem and now they are really a problem after we just had the biggest freeze kill since the 80’s.


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## Dave Neal (Nov 10, 2018)

Well, I see I have many like-minded Brothers on this thread and maybe a few that do not think like me. God help us all. First of all let me say I despise tournament fishing. It’s nothing but a money maker for product manufacturers wanting to get their hands in your pockets. Yes, I know I will be disparaged as a heretic for saying that. But just because I don’t buy the latest and greatest to feed some money grubbing promoter or lost soul fishing show, doesn’t mean I don’t or won’t catch fish. I do and have done it for most all of my 70 years. The image of these egotistical souls needs to be revealed so they can find their way back to sanity and decency. I remember two years in a row trying to put my son-in-law within casting range on the flats of Nighthawk Bay near Corpus Christi, Texas to see what it’s like to catch a nice redfish on fly. SOB tournament fishermen drove their boats within 100’ of us to burn the flats. Hell, I didn’t even know there was a tournament going on until we got back to the boat ramp. The whole purpose of tournament to to make money for a select few. That is the WRONG REASON to go fishing.


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## Dave Neal (Nov 10, 2018)

jay.bush1434 said:


> Damn fools. There is zero reason to have a kill tournament unless it is an invasive removal effort, especially on specks in the middle and lower Texas coasts. I'm sure the so called experts they consulted were all croaker soakers saying, "oh yeah, we're catching plenty of fish (read: I'm making plenty of money raping the resource because I'm a self fish greedy bastard). Until leaders in the saltwater fishing community (I am talking about guides mostly) start pushing more catch and release instead of hero kill shots, the situation will not improve.
> As an example, it took over a decade for the mindset to change in freshwater bass fishing and that was with legends like Roland Martin and Jimmy Houston pushing for CPR on a nationwide syndicated fishing tv show. Have a look at the video of April Vokey and Roland Martin on Youtube.


Amen Brother


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## Dave Neal (Nov 10, 2018)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> These are the same kind of special person that burns a flat in a jet ski, doesn’t return their shopping cart, and wears a mask while driving


Special place in hell for these a—holes.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

As much as I despise jet skiers they don’t have an impact on our resource like other fishermen, besides the occasional burning of a flat. They are not indirectly killing fish for pleasure/sport like we are and all they really are is an inconvenience for us while out on the water. Hate to say it but we are our own worst enemy.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Str8-Six said:


> As much as I despise jet skiers they don’t have an impact on our resource like other fishermen, besides the occasional burning of a flat. They are not indirectly killing fish for pleasure/sport like we are and all they really are is an inconvenience for us while out on the water. Hate to say it but we are our own worst enemy.


I agree with you, just saying that a jet skier is the same type of person that doesn't return their shopping cart, doesn't wipe down equipment after they use it in a gym, will think they can cut everyone off in line waiting for a highway exit, likely to be seen wearing a fedora, rocking a dank Salt Life sticker on the back of their Charger. They may not be directly killing fish, but the certainly make the ethical pursuit of fish significantly less enjoyable.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

txredfly said:


> Total BS smack. Seems like most “dudes” don’t get it. Some guides down here in Corpus are still posting the glory shots on Insta. WTF! Anytime I say anything I’m told to shut up and mind my own business. I remember the 80’s and they sucked. There is a lot more pressure now on the resource and these kill tournaments definitely don’t help things.


Ahh the sin of gluttony one day they will be sorry.


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## cdmalgee (Oct 15, 2020)

Gadaboutgaddis said:


> Yesterday I was reading about "competitive fly fishing" I almost threw up.


“Out on the road today, saw a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac”


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Ahh the sin of gluttony one day they will be sorry.


Unless all the Texas guides own ranches full of exotics(they don't), they're shortsightedness is gonna end up biting them in the ass.


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## skinnydip (Mar 27, 2016)

Not to chime in but I agree with all of the above and am not a tournament fan. my real issue right now is that many of the guides down here both lure, bait and croaker are keeping 3-4 limits of reds every trip like its nothing to the resource. It was not just the trout that got smashed. they act like they are real conservationist be cause they let a 25 in trout go after putting her on a boga grip and hanging by the lips. if you multiply even 9 reds a day x how many guides are in the laguna it adds up. I definitely can see the dent in the resource when i am out on the water with customers and myself alike. The fly guys in this area that I know are all cpr but the others are only doing it with trout and focusing on sacking the reds hard. I wish they would lay off. reds need love too!


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## AZ_squid (Mar 14, 2018)

Dave Neal said:


> Well, I see I have many like-minded Brothers on this thread and maybe a few that do not think like me. God help us all. First of all let me say I despise tournament fishing. It’s nothing but a money maker for product manufacturers wanting to get their hands in your pockets. Yes, I know I will be disparaged as a heretic for saying that. But just because I don’t buy the latest and greatest to feed some money grubbing promoter or lost soul fishing show, doesn’t mean I don’t or won’t catch fish. I do and have done it for most all of my 70 years. The image of these egotistical souls needs to be revealed so they can find their way back to sanity and decency. I remember two years in a row trying to put my son-in-law within casting range on the flats of Nighthawk Bay near Corpus Christi, Texas to see what it’s like to catch a nice redfish on fly. SOB tournament fishermen drove their boats within 100’ of us to burn the flats. Hell, I didn’t even know there was a tournament going on until we got back to the boat ramp. The whole purpose of tournament to to make money for a select few. That is the WRONG REASON to go fishing.


On a summer weekend you can almost see smoke coming off the flats in nighthawk from all the a$$hats burning that shoreline. 
I've been tempted to add some new obstructions along that shoreline 😎


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## skinnydip (Mar 27, 2016)

Dont get me started on those guys. Had som f er in a high rack haynie gridding one of the lakes near shamrock the other day in 100ft increments. Stupid f#%*


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

You have to be a special kind of dumbass to be a middle coast Texas guide outfit and post stringer shots of trout after a freeze kill like we just had. These guys are from the area that got hit the hardest...people are flaming the hell out of them though and I’m proud to see people busting their chops.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You have to be a special kind of dumbass to be a middle coast Texas guide outfit and post stringer shots of trout after a freeze kill like we just had. These guys are from the area that got hit the hardest...people are flaming the hell out of them though and I’m proud to see people busting their chops.
> 
> View attachment 175325


Thats ridiculous right there even (if the trout weren't hit that hard for you guys this winter). Glutenous much? The look at me generation gotta just shake your head.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You have to be a special kind of dumbass to be a middle coast Texas guide outfit and post stringer shots of trout after a freeze kill like we just had. These guys are from the area that got hit the hardest...people are flaming the hell out of them though and I’m proud to see people busting their chops.


Those guys are ass hats of the first order. Turns my stomach to see that. I hope they end up on an episode of Lone Star Law. This pisses me off enough to get back on Instagram and Facebook just to flame them publically.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

jay.bush1434 said:


> Those guys are ass hats of the first order. Turns my stomach to see that. I hope they end up on an episode of Lone Star Law. This pisses me off enough to get back on Instagram and Facebook just to flame them publically.


If you want to get technical about it that photo is illegal. He has more than three limits of trout on one stringer. The same guide for Run N Gun has been posting kill shots every day rubbing it in everyone’s face. I hope their fancy new lodge burns to the ground...disrespectful pieces of shit. I’ve been shaming them for over a decade for the blatant disrespect for our fishery. The same guides that brag about running multiple meat haul trips a day and the owner got busted last summer giving his client a big trout to weigh in the following day for a tournament. These types of people should be shut down but suckasses will just take up for them.
The cherry on top is them all claiming they will be catch and release only in respect for the freeze kill we just had. That lasted a very short time and they were right back at it. Punks


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Dumbass, flat brim, non pubitiod facial hair , illegitimate inbreed, of the owners of that big ranch down there.SC closed trout after the freeze a few years ago and I will have to check, but I think still 4 between 15 and 20 still the rules.


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## jpipes (May 6, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you want to get technical about it that photo is illegal. He has more than three limits of trout on one stringer. The same guide for Run N Gun has been posting kill shots every day rubbing it in everyone’s face. I hope their fancy new lodge burns to the ground...disrespectful pieces of shit. I’ve been shaming them for over a decade for the blatant disrespect for our fishery. The same guides that brag about running multiple meat haul trips a day and the owner got busted last summer giving his client a big trout to weigh in the following day for a tournament. These types of people should be shut down but suckasses will just take up for them.
> The cherry on top is them all claiming they will be catch and release only in respect for the freeze kill we just had. That lasted a very short time and they were right back at it. Punks


$100 says that they'll argue that the pic was taken well before the freeze...thinking it makes it ok.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

jpipes said:


> $100 says that they'll argue that the pic was taken well before the freeze...thinking it makes it ok.


Nope, they are recent pictures, this one even outlines the recent heavy rain. No shame.


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## SymmFish (Aug 28, 2018)

The number of dock photos with tons of trout lined up that I still see boggles my brain!


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You have to be a special kind of dumbass to be a middle coast Texas guide outfit and post stringer shots of trout after a freeze kill like we just had. These guys are from the area that got hit the hardest...people are flaming the hell out of them though and I’m proud to see people busting their chops.
> 
> View attachment 175325


That's absolutely brutal.


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## TX_maverick (Oct 26, 2020)

Didn't RNG get investigated a few years ago about baiting dove fields? I know for a fact that some of their "farming" techniques are a bit borderline.


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

At least it looks to only be 18, and not 30.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TX_maverick said:


> Didn't RNG get investigated a few years ago about baiting dove fields? I know for a fact that some of their "farming" techniques are a bit borderline.


I wouldn’t put it past them!


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