# New Fly Guy...Help!



## TimPappy (Jan 25, 2018)

Ok, I was wondering if one of you fly guys could give me a tip to help out my cast (I've searched youtube etc...with no success).
I practice almost daily and can get an 8wt. with a fly hook bent off out there to 80ft. When I watch my back cast the loop is open/poor. Forward cast I seem to make up for it, but the last 20ft. to hit 100' is not there due to back cast. I realize 80' will more than cover most situations; it's a matter of principle for me. I know if I do it right I should be able to throw all the fly line. 
I feel as if I may be stroking the double haul early? Is this a possible cause? Realize it's hard to tell without seeing, but I'll try any tips and experiment till I get it right. 

ty, Tim


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

YouTube Lefty Kreh and watch his instructions.
then video yourself and Ted will comment


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## TimPappy (Jan 25, 2018)

Ty Permit...I have watched Lefty sev. x's. I have a fellow microskiff member who's gonna come over and we will vid each other (and have a fly casting competition of course).


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

I’d rather be good at the 30-60foot range than be able to shoot 100’. Only time I’ve ever truly needed to cast that far was because I was in a damn bay boat that drafted 14”


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## Cliff (Oct 13, 2016)

Start with short casts and make them perfect. My guess is that your problems will show up by 30 feet. I would not be expecting to make 80 foot casts for some time. Look at your cast at 20, 30, 40 and 50 ft. Fix your problems at the shortest distance possible.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Rick hambric said:


> I’d rather be good at the 30-60foot range than be able to shoot 100’. Only time I’ve ever truly needed to cast that far was because I was in a damn bay boat that drafted 14”


Rick is right. I understand it's cool to say you can dump a full line while practicing but it has very little practical application to fishing. I taught fly casting for a bunch of years when I was FFF Certified and most guys tended to overpower their last forward stroke thinking more _*umph*_ would result if more feet of line leaving the rod tip. Just the opposite happens when you shock the rod. Give your backcast an extra second extra to unfurl before beginning the forward cast. I used to trick students while false casting and tell them to shoot the forward cast when they weren't expecting it. They always got 10' further than when they built up and overpowered the last haul.

I found it much more important to teach folks to cast 40'-50' with a single water haul and hit a target the size of a frisbee 9 times out of 10. I know of very few guides that I've fished with that can call a 100' shot from the poling platform. It's nearly impossible to tell where a fish is heading that far out, when it will change direction or it simply disappears. You now have 80' of line outside your rod tip and have to strip like a mad man to get the line back in to re-cast.

I've blown a ton more shots 10'-15' from the skiff than 60'-70' out for what it's worth.


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## TimPappy (Jan 25, 2018)

thx guys...I can consistently hit 70' to 75' target. I guess it's just a goal I have. I do drill at 30' to 40' and can cast ok at this point, but still not happy with loops widening on back cast. Tight forward and ugly ass on back cast. Feels like I'm snatching it back too fast and or tugging at the line on the haul too early. The deal is when it's windy (lately all the time) I know tight loops are a must. 
How's that beauty of a boat treating you Net? Hope you're sliming it up often.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Listen to @Net 30. There’s wisdom there. One of the most useful things I’ve found is being able to pick up 30’ of line and shoot to 60’+ with one back cast. Then being able to change directions on top of that. Kinda like the golf saying... drive for show and put for $$$$. I’ll take accuracy over distance anytime!!!


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

My guesses (in order of likelihood based on the symptoms you describe) would be bringing the rod too far back on rearward stroke(more arc=bigger loop), not maintaining a straight path with the rod tip, not bringing the rod to an abrupt stop, not letting the rear loop straighten completely, putting the power to the rod too early.

You suspect you're stroking the double haul early, that will not rob power but it will prevent you imparting power, and shocks the rod, either way the result is the same.. the haul puts a deeper bend in the rod to further load (power) if it's not loaded when you haul it does nothing except exercise your hauling arm, moral of the story, timing is everything when you're looking for line speed/power/distance.

You mention being able to hit a target @ 70-75', what size target are you talking? Because if you can regularly hit a paper plate at that distance (impressive) you have the timing, form, and fundamentals to cast your whole line and likely more. You may have a problem with equipment selection. Lines that easily cast 100+ feet are rarely ever suited to realistic fishing situations. Look into some expert distance line if you're wanting to throw a long way. If not consider dropping a line weight and going with a longer head line, you'll be able to carry way more line in the air without overloading the rod.

Good Luck


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

How much effort is it for you to to make that 80' cast? If you really have to try to get that 80', I agree with the others, go back to 40-50, slow things down, then try to add distance focusing on form not power. 

If the 80' isn't too hard but you cant break 100', it is likely a small detail that is limiting your cast. I was stuck at 80' for a while before I changed a few aspects of my cast. You can turn a 60' cast into an 80' cast doing mostly the same things but turning an 80' cast into 100' requires a few change ups simply because you have so much line in the air. 

You mention an open back cast. You are likely bringing the rod too low on the back cast. When you have that much line in the air, you have to stop the rod higher/earlier on your back cast, abrupt stop to let the line completely unravel, let the line fall slightly, then go ahead with the forward cast using a higher trajectory (aim much higher than the target at this distance).

Another tip on the back cast that hung me up for a while, was using too much wrist. You can get away with some wrist up to that 80' mark but to get past that, the rod needs 100% of its loading power. Try tucking the fighting butt into a long sleeve shirt or strap it to your wrist with a rubber band and see what that does to your cast. You will likely feel the rod pick up some horsepower. Once you have that feeling, really concentrate on keeping that wrist firm. When you do your final back cast, keep that rod tip higher, keep you wrist firm, and lead your forward cast with your elbow, not your hand. This will bring out the power in that rod that you paid good money for. Make it do the work for you, as it was designed to.

Also, limit your false casts and shoot more line. When you carry a lot of line in the air, any mistakes in your cast are amplified. If you can shoot more line on your casts you wont need to carry as much. This is especially true on the final back cast. Keep you final forward false cast a little shorter and then let out a little more line than you typically would on that final back cast. This helps to prevent you from rushing your final haul. The timing of that final haul is key. 

It is almost impossible to diagnose a cast over the internet but these were a few things that brought me from 80' to 100'. That and practice. Lots and lots of practice. Good luck to ya!


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## Gervais (Nov 28, 2016)

Not seeing your cast I would say there is a good chance your loop opens up due to creep or drift. It’s one of my biggest issues and happens more when looking at my back cast because I will move my upper body and end up dipping the rod tip. It may not be right but I always stay focused on the target and rely on peripheral vision with what my cast is doing. I have a good idea of what my back cast looks like from how the line looks in front of me.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

If you are a "New Fly Guy" as in, new to fly fishing, and can cast 80 feet of line repeatedly then I cannot help you. You are already better than me


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

E-money said:


> If you are a "New Fly Guy" as in, new to fly fishing, and can cast 80 feet of line repeatedly then I cannot help you. You are already better than me


Amen! I think maybe he's one of the naturals with outstanding coordination.


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## TimPappy (Jan 25, 2018)

eightwt said:


> Amen! I think maybe he's one of the naturals with outstanding coordination.


lol, I'm just a freakin' hard headed guy who practices about an hr. a day! I used to do it with golf but finally decided that was a hopeless cause!


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## TimPappy (Jan 25, 2018)

Pierson said:


> How much effort is it for you to to make that 80' cast? If you really have to try to get that 80', I agree with the others, go back to 40-50, slow things down, then try to add distance focusing on form not power.
> 
> If the 80' isn't too hard but you cant break 100', it is likely a small detail that is limiting your cast. I was stuck at 80' for a while before I changed a few aspects of my cast. You can turn a 60' cast into an 80' cast doing mostly the same things but turning an 80' cast into 100' requires a few change ups simply because you have so much line in the air.
> 
> ...


Ty, low back cast with open loops is the deal. I'm gonna try a strap on wrist as that's likely the biggest thing (along with rod path, full stop, creep, etc...!).


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

TimPappy said:


> lol, I'm just a freakin' hard headed guy who practices about an hr. a day! I used to do it with golf but finally decided that was a hopeless cause!


Practice is definitely a must. Most of my fishing is blind casting in water that I think may be holding fish, so longer casts do keep the fly in the water longer. Using a water haul helps me a lot. I find that the more I false cast, the worse my cast is. I practice keeping my false cast to no more than one or two. Usually can hit 50-60 pretty consistently, then the wind comes up ....oh well.


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## TimPappy (Jan 25, 2018)

Took a vid yesterday...funny how your brain thinks you're doing something and when you actually see it...meh, not so much. Bad forward cast...way past where I thought I was stopping. Also forward creep. Not enough load on forward cast causing poor back cast. Working on it. 
Thanks again all for comments/tips.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

I can't cast 80 feet on my best day ever with a tailwind. I honestly just wave the rod around and hope it goes in the right direction.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> My guesses (in order of likelihood based on the symptoms you describe) would be bringing the rod too far back on rearward stroke(more arc=bigger loop), not maintaining a straight path with the rod tip, not bringing the rod to an abrupt stop, not letting the rear loop straighten completely, putting the power to the rod too early.
> 
> You suspect you're stroking the double haul early, that will not rob power but it will prevent you imparting power, and shocks the rod, either way the result is the same.. the haul puts a deeper bend in the rod to further load (power) if it's not loaded when you haul it does nothing except exercise your hauling arm, moral of the story, timing is everything when you're looking for line speed/power/distance.
> 
> ...


Hydrogen, excellent points. If our caster has a short-belly line and is working too much length out, it might be whipping his ass going for distance. Ie carrying too much line in the air relative to line weight and taper, and rod dynamics. The open loop backcast has been well covered. Would add that strength in the shoulder abductors is important and can be improved by shooting a bow for cross training


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

TimPappy said:


> Took a vid yesterday...funny how your brain thinks you're doing something and when you actually see it...meh, not so much. Bad forward cast...way past where I thought I was stopping. Also forward creep. Not enough load on forward cast causing poor back cast. Working on it.
> Thanks again all for comments/tips.


rod
Lefty says " speed up and stop" also try to drop your rod down a bit and it will load better. Or make sure your line is heavy enough for your rod


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I can't throw 100 ft...don't care...accuracy out to 70' is way more important than distance past 70'...IMHO...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

TimPappy said:


> Took a vid yesterday...funny how your brain thinks you're doing something and when you actually see it...meh, not so much. Bad forward cast...way past where I thought I was stopping. Also forward creep. Not enough load on forward cast causing poor back cast. Working on it.
> Thanks again all for comments/tips.


I can take a look at that and tell you what's going on. Or do your self improvement and then take another video and let me see that one. PM me and I'll give you my email address. Then upload the video onto Google Drive and invite me to come and look at it. Then I can call you and go over what's going on.

Ted


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