# Ipb nose dive



## noeettica

Tuck the motor ...

Or make some tabs like the last set but heavier ...

and this time use some 5200 to seal them ;-) LOL


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## Dillusion

The 14 or 16? Completely different boats.
What HP motor and what brand?


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## Morgan_Duett

14' mercury 20 2s


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## Capnredfish

Maybe not an answer but some ideas. Maybe the prop has too much stern lift. My prop lifts the stern and makes the boat run more flat. Worse the higher I run the motor. If I have a passenger on the left next to me, problem is gone. Porpuising is not really an issue though. Should the manufacturer not have


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## Morgan_Duett

This is it with just me and the yeti half full on the front.


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## Shalla Wata Rider

Mpd, From the picture it looks like you are running too flat . If no one else has this problem ...then it is unique to your set up . The QL trim tabs by Volvo work on the principle that any drag in the aft of the vessel will create lift in the rear and downward thrust in the bow . So you may need to raise your motor slightly (to reduce drag ...Lift )and adjust trim ...also check the hull bottom and make sure that it doesn't have a hook in it . If it pre released from the mold in the aft or mid section it will push the bow down . Use a long straight edge . Hope this helps


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## Morgan_Duett

Would a hydro foil help anything?


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## DuckNut

Is that at WOT?

Looks like you have an issue with motor setup. I say this because the prop wash is coming up right at the motor. It should be further back than that.

A stern lift prop will throw a wider cone of water and the wash will hit the surface sooner than a standard prop.

A trim tab or hydrofoil will not help your issue as they are designed to lower the bow.

Take a pic of the mounting bracket showing your tilt pin setup and a pic of your motor on the trailer in the position you run it.


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## Morgan_Duett

That's at like 1/4 throttle, when you open it all the way up it porpoises bad. I'll have photos up tomorrow.


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## Dillusion

Is this the first boat out of the new mold?

Porpoising means too much weight in the rear, nose diving means too much weight in the front or too much stern lift.

To fix porpoising, you need to add tabs or change your outboard angle to be facing down from the transom instead of even with it.

To fix nose diving you need to do less tabs or move weight to the rear.


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## Morgan_Duett

Not the first, when I put to much weight it the back it porpoises bad. When we center everything out and it's not porposing it runs so flat that it feels like the bow is plowing.


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## MariettaMike

> I took my boat out for the first time today with my buddy I had the cav plate parrealla with the hull I was on the back my friend was on the yeti in the middle, after we got on plane the nose went into the water, so he moved back on the bench beside me and it started to porpoise. We moved adround stuff and adjusted the trim but it was always trying to ride with the nose plowing? Or either porposing really bad? How's every body setting there's up? Tabs, foil, it feels like the boat wants ride on its nose.


As some have previously commented, the boat is either too wide for its length, has hook problem, your prop is too deep in the water, and/or you're trimmed too high.

Put a straight edge on the bottom at the transom to check how much hook is in it. If its flat you may need some tabs. If its got a lot of hook, you may need some glass work.

If (when) you can get it to run stable at WOT the water should not go over the engine cav plate.

Stern lifting props reduce porpoising.


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## BugDopeforENP

Did you adjust the trim pin on the motor when you were out on the water? If it's riding nose down that means you need to move one notch up to get positive trim which will push the stern down and raise the bow up.

My IPB never had this problem, but I have a 20" shaft Merc with a jack plate that gave me a maximum of 11.5" of movement so I could fine tune the height adjustment and trim. 
Mine rides with almost the front half of the boat out of the water without the bow bouncing up and down. 

I don't think the hull came out of a new mold. I think he just made changes to the deck. There has also never been a consistent deck lay out that I have noticed. For example the transom well are all different shapes and sizes, the hatches are never centered,drain plug is a little off of center and the rear bulkhead is never consistent. Unless you guys ordered these things to be different. But I have never noticed anything different about the hull just the deck layout. IMO, most of the 14 looks like the have a hook. Great boat for the money though I have no serious complaints about mine. Like posted above post pictures of the motor on the transom.


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## BugDopeforENP

Can someone elaborate more on the width to length? Thanks


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## fishboy73

Mine has had a porpoising issue since I bought it. I 've played with the motor position and tilt. I have a trolling motor and battery up front now and that seems to have fixed the issue somewhat. Mine has a visible hook to it, but I wouldn't consider bring the boat back to Brad. From what I've heard, he is selling the company and getting out of it all together.


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## GSSF

> Mine has had a porpoising issue since I bought it. I 've played with the motor position and tilt. I have a trolling motor and battery up front now and that seems to have fixed the issue somewhat. Mine has a visible hook to it, but I wouldn't consider bring the boat back to Brad. From what I've heard, he is selling the company and getting out of it all together.



Charlie, not to hi-jack, but please elaborate on Brad selling the company. Hadn't heard that (yet).....

Also, this is a prop issue in my opinion. I have never had porpoising issues no matter what the weight configuration. I have no probs with the nosedives with the TM on the front, battery up front, cooler in the center with the wife sitting on the front edge of it..... She is 130 and I am 175.

I have also piloted the boat solo with no cooler, no TM,etc, and have had zero issues.

Motor is a merc 2 stroke 15hp, with a 9 pitch stainless solas prop.


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## MariettaMike

> Can someone elaborate more on the width to length? Thanks


Not my opinion, but it sounds reasonable


http://www.soundingsonline.com/features/technical/237792-planing-hull-efficiency

Length-to-beam, et al
The hull’s length-to-beam (l/b) ratio is a very important efficiency factor for several reasons. But consider first a disturbing trend during the last 25 years — boats getting wider and wider, making the hulls less efficient and harder riding to boot. In part, this is because shorter/wider boats run with higher trim angles (bow up), which increases form drag as well as vertical accelerations from wave impact (it’s called pounding when extreme).

Thanks to market demand for condo-sized accommodations afloat, we have production 42-footers with 15- or 16-foot beams, for an overall length-to-beam of 2.8 or less. If you build the same-sized boat at 46 feet by 13 feet, 6 inches, it will be more efficient, less susceptible to trim change as speed and weight distribution vary, will run at more moderate trim angles (improving both ride and efficiency), stay on plane at lower speeds, and be more comfortable in a seaway — in short, a superior all-around boat.

Let’s look at the length-to-beam ratio’s effect on trim. As I pointed out, while short, wide boats run bow high, narrower, longer boats run with more modest bow rise, since the boat’s weight is spread out over a longer waterline and that greater length better resists trim-changing weights and forces.

To achieve maximum efficiency, one wants to minimize the form drag created by stern immersion and buttocks angle of attack by lowering the bow, but not so far that frictional drag increases to counterproductive levels with the additional wetted surface forward. The longer/

narrower boat runs more naturally at this optimum angle, without wedges and with less use of trim tabs and, therefore, with less drag. Trim equilibrium is reached when the center of dynamic lift of the water flow along the bottom of the boat is balanced by the vessel’s longitudinal center of gravity, which is determined by the weight of the vessel and everything in it.

Another efficiency factor is deadrise. A flatter hull develops lift more efficiently, but bottoms that are flatter in the forward half of a 35-knot hull pound mercilessly, so that’s not a solution. There are, however, many of these boats being sold today, so beware. And I doubt the difference in efficiency between hulls with 20 and 22 degrees of transom deadrise can even be reliably measured, though the difference between 15 and 24 degrees can be. Unless you’re in a 70-knot boat, it’s the deadrise farther forward and in the hull’s midsection that determine ride quality, not transom deadrise.


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## tsmithf33

> Mine has had a porpoising issue since I bought it. I 've played with the motor position and tilt. I have a trolling motor and battery up front now and that seems to have fixed the issue somewhat. Mine has a visible hook to it, but I wouldn't consider bring the boat back to Brad. From what I've heard, he is selling the company and getting out of it all together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charlie, not to hi-jack, but please elaborate on Brad selling the company.  Hadn't heard that (yet).....
> 
> Also, this is a prop issue in my opinion.  I have never had porpoising issues no matter what the weight configuration.  I have no probs with the nosedives with the TM on the front, battery up front, cooler in the center with the wife sitting on the front edge of it.....  She is 130 and I am 175.
> 
> I have also piloted the boat solo with no cooler, no TM,etc, and have had zero issues.
> 
> Motor is a merc 2 stroke 15hp, with a 9 pitch stainless solas prop.
Click to expand...

Just got off the phone with Bad, He is not selling the 14' Mold


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## RTS

> Mine has had a porpoising issue since I bought it. I 've played with the motor position and tilt. I have a trolling motor and battery up front now and that seems to have fixed the issue somewhat. Mine has a visible hook to it, but I wouldn't consider bring the boat back to Brad. From what I've heard, he is selling the company and getting out of it all together.


Hook and porpoising normally contradict each other.  In the past, some manufacturers put in "hook" to eliminate porpoising.  Now they just tell you to get tabs. :

These little boats are weight sensitive and set up is key.

Set it up so it does not plow WOT and the porpoising can be tamed with weight shift, tabs, aftermarket larger ventilation plate (referred to on this site a "cavitation plate") or even cupping the tips of your prop appropriately.


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## fishboy73

Brad offered to sell the company to my brother a few weeks ago. Then last week, my brother called Brad to get more details, and Brad said he already had a buyer???


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## Gramps

Let's keep this thread on track guys. 

Also this is hearsay as far as I'm concerned regarding a "sale" of IPB as a company. Please start a new thread if the discussion needs to continue.


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## Morgan_Duett

Ok I went out today with my gf and she sat on the cooler in the middle. I got to wot with no porposing but it was ridin pretty darn flat (too flat IMO) but not plowing. I have adjusted the tilt pin on the motor a couple times, if I move it up porposing is very bad if I move it down, no porposing but I feel like I'm gonna just submarine under water in the front.


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## MariettaMike

> Ok I went out today with my gf and she sat on the cooler in the middle. I got to wot with no porposing but it was ridin pretty darn flat (too flat IMO) but not plowing. I have adjusted the tilt pin on the motor a couple times, if I move it up porposing is very bad if I move it down, no porposing but I feel like I'm gonna just submarine under water in the front.


Maybe it's supposed to run flat....how does it turn? Does it tilt towards the direction of the turn without sliding or having the chine drag at the bow?


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## RTS

> Ok I went out today with my gf and she sat on the cooler in the middle. I got to wot with no porposing but it was ridin pretty darn flat (too flat IMO) but not plowing. I have adjusted the tilt pin on the motor a couple times, if I move it up porposing is very bad if I move it down, no porposing but I feel like I'm gonna just submarine under water in the front.


With a hook, the faster you go the flatter or more tendency to "plow".  Not necessarily a bad thing in light chop as long as you don't "stuff" the nose.

Note to self: GF on board, boat better


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## Morgan_Duett

Matty it has a slight tilt when u go into a turn but it does fee like it wants to slid out sideways. I also did talk to brad and he said it is made to run pretty flat, he also mentioned something about bow steer?


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## Skydiver

> I got to wot with no porposing but it was ridin pretty darn flat (too flat IMO) but not plowing.


Thats how my boat rides at WOT, planes well but rides flat.


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## Morgan_Duett

Skydiver where does the water break? It rides flat but like I said sometimes the bow is actually in the water slightly.


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## Skydiver

I don't have a pic but just about where yours is in the pic you posted I would say.


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## blondmonkey777

They all ride like that my buddy's with a 15 hp does the same it either will porpose or ride nose down, they are pretty easy to stuff the bow but tabs and cav plate aren't really worth it , just shift a little weight and boom it rides diff.


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## Shalla Wata Rider

> he also mentioned something about bow steer?


That also known as Dynamic Instability  [smiley=1-whoops1.gif]........... NOT GOOD.


Flat may just be the nature of the beast and you'll have to learn to adjust on the fly  :-/
Does it have lift strakes ?, and if so how far out from center and what size (height)are they ? I've tweaked a few hulls by tapering the strakes and the chine and it worked ....but it will call for glass work


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## AfterHours2

Snap a few close up transom shots and post them. There are plenty of gurus on this forum and you may just be overlooking something simple hopefully..


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## Shalla Wata Rider

> Snap a few close up transom shots and post them. There are plenty of gurus on this forum and you may just be overlooking something simple hopefully..


X 2
Plenty of pics ....pls


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## goon squad

Mp, I feel your pain brother, just got back from testing mine, very disappointing, I am running a 25 Yamaha 2st on a mini-jacker, cav plate about an inch above the bottom, stock alum. prop w/no cup, no stern lift, ect.

With zero weight in bow and 3gal of fuel and myself (160lbs) in back of boat she would run flat with water breaking around midship up to about 24mph. The faster you go the more it would try to submarine after the 24mph mark.

Looking at the bottom, there is a slight hook built into the hull but nothing extreme. Now looking down the keel from the transom to the bow it is very noticeable that the front dips down lower than the rest. 

I have no degree in hydrodynamics, but IMO that (whatever you call it) keel portion of bow being lower than the rest may be good for turning I think it is to much and actually sucking the bow down. I'm talking way down, I do believe if I would stay on the throttle it would go right under!

Everyone please look at your hull (newer & older model) and let us know if yours is the same and will yours run over 25mph safely.  shalla what do you think?  BTW I tried it on the highest trim setting too and the same thing.


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## noeettica

Let me know if you want your 13 footer It's listed on CG 

But I think you will get your IPB squared away just fine ...


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## Morgan_Duett

Skeeter did urs porpoise at all?


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## Morgan_Duett




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## goon squad

> Skeeter did urs porpoise at all?


No porpoising, even with it on highest trim setting. I did get it to bounce a little if I leaned against the motor before 20 mph, after that there was no way the nose was coming up. Did you look at the bottom of your hull? When I get time I'm going to flip mine over and see what going on with this thing. Its crazy, Brads going to be getting a lot of phone calls I believe.


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## Morgan_Duett

Yea mines got a slight hook in the front but it's supposed to be tht way. How's everybody else with the14' have there motor/ weight distributed?


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## SilentHunter

these boats were great for the price... should of waited that 6 months for a better product


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## jldriver

Just in case this visual helps, here's what mine looks like at cruising speed...



Also, I usually run my motor trim slightly tucked "in" to keep the bow down when I'm running solo. I can't recall whether this photo was with level trim, or a little "in" but basically this is how mine runs.


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## Morgan_Duett

Do you have your battery in the front ? In the weeds


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## goon squad

Measuring with a string mine hooks down 2" in the front I would think the decks and the rub rail should be level all the way around the boat . Did they pull it from the mold and set it on a dolly before it was cured and it sagged? It seems f'd up to me. I'd post some pics but photobucket is giving me problems too.


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## Morgan_Duett

Your photo didn't work skeeter


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## goon squad

Yeah I know Ill work on the pics


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## goon squad

There we go 







[/img]


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## Morgan_Duett

I'll check mine and let you kno later


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## Morgan_Duett

Do you have a jack plate on your boat skeeter?


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## jldriver

> Do you have your battery in the front ? In the weeds


No...20hp 4-stroke, battery and 6 gal fuel all in the rear 

Trolling motor and light gear in the front (life jackets and such)


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## Morgan_Duett

Do you have tabs or a foil?


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## goon squad

Went with mini jacker. $88+shipping($102 total) at Bass Pro Shop


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## DuckNut

The string across the deck does not affect the running angle.

Take that metal ruler and put it up against the hull and see if there is a gap between the hull and the ruler.


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## goon squad

> The string across the deck does not affect the running angle.
> 
> Take that metal ruler and put it up against the hull and see if there is a gap between the hull and the ruler.


DN, I put a 10' straight edge on the bottom and I can stick my fingers between it and hull.


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## mcmsly2

feedin, where did you put the straight edge? from transom?


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## goon squad

> feedin, where did you put the straight edge? from transom?


About 2' forward of transom forward 10'. Tomorrow I will lift bow up or flip the boat so I can get more accurate visual and pics.


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## mcmsly2

wow. I just put a 4 foot level from the transom going 4 foot forward and its pretty much flat.........


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## Morgan_Duett

Skeeter and shiner visually it looks like mine doesn't start to curve until about 3 ft from the tip of now the back from transom to about 12 ft it looks flat


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## RTS

> feedin, where did you put the straight edge? from transom?
> 
> 
> 
> About 2' forward of transom forward 10'. Tomorrow I will lift bow up or flip the boat so I can get more accurate visual and pics.
Click to expand...

Straight edge needs to extend just past the transom forward and tell us how much space is between the straight edge about 1' forward. You don't need to flip the boat.

Have you tried trimming your motor out one notch?


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## goon squad

> feedin, where did you put the straight edge? from transom?
> 
> 
> 
> About 2' forward of transom forward 10'. Tomorrow I will lift bow up or flip the boat so I can get more accurate visual and pics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straight edge needs to extend just past the transom forward and tell us how much space is between the straight edge about 1' forward.  You don't need to flip the boat.
> 
> Have you tried trimming your motor out one notch?
Click to expand...

I've trimmed it to the highest setting and I'm not talking about the hook in the bottom at the transom, that is minimal. What I'm trying to say is that it looks like the whole boat from the rear of the front deck is bent down like if you put a plastic canoe on top of a car strap the middle and front down and let it sit in the sun on a 95deg day.


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## Paul_Barnard

> The string across the deck does not affect the running angle.
> 
> Take that metal ruler and put it up against the hull and see if there is a gap between the hull and the ruler.
> 
> 
> 
> DN, I put a 10' straight edge on the bottom and I can stick my fingers between it and hull.
Click to expand...

Now that doesn't sound right. Where is the gap?


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## RTS

> feedin, where did you put the straight edge? from transom?
> 
> 
> 
> About 2' forward of transom forward 10'. Tomorrow I will lift bow up or flip the boat so I can get more accurate visual and pics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Straight edge needs to extend just past the transom forward and tell us how much space is between the straight edge about 1' forward.  You don't need to flip the boat.
> 
> Have you tried trimming your motor out one notch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've trimmed it to the highest setting and I'm not talking about the hook in the bottom at the transom, that is minimal. What I'm trying to say is that it looks like the whole boat from the rear of the front deck is bent down like if you put a plastic canoe on top of a car strap the middle and front down and let it sit in the sun on a 95deg day.
Click to expand...

All those boats are all that way from what I have seen from day one.  Top takes a "nose dive" but that has nothing to do with the running surface.

You can clearly see it in this pic:



from this thread:  http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1352162900/0

Maybe this one is better:


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## Morgan_Duett

Yes it is noticeable on top but on the bottom it also looks like it slightly does the same


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## RTS

> Yes it is noticeable on top but on the bottom it also looks like it slightly does the same


Are you talking about the bow or stern? :-/


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## Morgan_Duett

The bow


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## Paul_Barnard

The down turned nose is in the design of the boat. If the running surface has a hook, that sounds like a problem to me.


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## RTS

> The bow


That has nothing to do with "plow".


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## Morgan_Duett

If you start from the transom and go all the way to to the bow it's flat until about 11.5-12ft and it starts to curve down just like the top.


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## Morgan_Duett

If I take the yeti off the front it porpoises


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## RTS

> The down turned nose is in the design of the boat.  If the running surface has a hook, that sounds like a problem to me.


Not necessarily, but it can make a hull ride flatter than many feel comfortable with. 

Another boat boated on this site, of which I have owned three, would stuff the bow WOT especially when overpowered.  Nothing wrong with the hull as it will accept being overpowered but if you don't back off hitting wakes frog togs aint gonna help. ;D ;D


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## RTS

> If I take the yeti off the front it porpoises


Now we're getting somewhere.

Does the water break about midship powered up?


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## Morgan_Duett

Bout 2ft before midship


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## Morgan_Duett

It breaks right behind the yeti in the photo and that's full power


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## RTS

> Bout 2ft before midship


Does it feel like it's "plowing"?


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## Morgan_Duett

No not really


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## Morgan_Duett

It just feels like too much boat is in the water


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## RTS

> No not really


Making progress.

Check for hook with at least a 4 foot straight edge from the transom (not 1" forward, all the way back) and give us a measurement.

try moving weight back so it releases further back knowing the porpoising will get worse.

Maybe someone will let you borrow a power tech SRA3R13 or SRA4R13. The 4R will give a little stern lift to maybe settle the porpoise. This part is trial and error. :-/ Tabs would give you the best control if you're willing to drop about $400. I normally use a cupped 4 blade and a bobs true tracker on 25 mercs. to tame her.


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## Morgan_Duett

Ok let's say I have hook? Then what? Also would smart tabs work?


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## RTS

> Ok let's say I have hook? Then what? Also would smart tabs work?


Ill keep saying, hook doesn't = bad, just different. 

Worry about that IF it has "significant hook".

I have seen several posts on this site with people who like smart tabs. I think it's an oxymoron, nothing "smart" about them and have seen more problems than positive results. They could easily put you right back to "plow".


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## Morgan_Duett

Ok so if I have the "hook" and I move weight back how do I keep it from porposing?


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## RTS

> Ok so if I have the "hook" and I move weight back how do I keep it from porposing?


See post 75. don't try to do too much at one time. Make a change, test. Change, test.


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## Creek Runner

I need some popcorn!


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## fishboy73

I tried to tell you guys this on page 2...My brother bought a used IPB 14 a few weeks ago and took it to Brad to have a platform put on it. Brad told him then he was selling and asked my brother if he wanted to buy the company.


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## goon squad

Just so everyone understands Mpduett211 started this post and I kinda jumped on board because we both are having pretty much the same problem and our boats were built from the new mold around the same time. I don't know how many were built but we can't be the only ones with this problem. Forget about the older 14'ers, this is a completely different boat.

Junky, Would you agree that if I clamp my motor directly to the transom (25 Yam 2st,stock alum.prop, no hydrofoil or any BS and trimmed correctly)have 3gal. of fuel under rear deck, life jacket & whistle only. The boat just the way I picked up from Brad, It should ride like a normal boat? Asap that is what I am going to try and I will video for ever one to see. This is by far my first boat and it looks like it won't be my last.

If it is an issue with the design who has to make it right, Brad or the new owner?

Here are a couple pics of the 1" belly in the bottom. They are a little hard to make out because on the reflections.




























[/img]


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## goon squad

Having trouble with the pics I'll try again in a bit


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## makin moves

If you run your boat set up as described it will porpoise. Pretty common for a light 14 ft boat. The first gen copperheads have a bow down attitude at high speeds as well. This thread is getting alot of attention :-?


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## BugDopeforENP

> Just so everyone understands Mpduett211 started this post and I kinda jumped on board because we both are having pretty much the same problem and our boats were built from the new mold around the same time. I don't know how many were built but we can't be the only ones with this problem. Forget about the older 14'ers, this is a completely different boat.
> 
> Junky, Would you agree that if I clamp my motor directly to the transom (25 Yam 2st,stock alum.prop, no hydrofoil or any BS and trimmed correctly)have 3gal. of fuel under rear deck, life jacket & whistle only. The boat just the way I picked up from Brad, It should ride like a normal boat? Asap that is what I am going to try and I will video for ever one to see. This is by far my first boat and it looks like it won't be my last.
> 
> If it is an issue with the design who has to make it right, Brad or the new owner?
> 
> Here are a couple pics of the 1" belly in the bottom. They are a little hard to make out because on the reflections.
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I don't think there's a new mold, I think he just cut a different layout on the decks,added rub railing and a new style drain plug. Our hulls all look the same with the same hook. I think you guys should try a different prop and adjust some weight around.


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## Shalla Wata Rider

Please state the length of your straight edge and where on the hull you are . I would do a full check .... It's the Mold most likely .....Brad probably got in a hurry and laid on the chop and it shrunk as it cured due to the extra thick laminate curing all at once ...I've never done it on a mold but I have gotten over zealous on the laminates and it will warp parts ... I'm sure that was obvious to the new owner and that's why Brad still has the mold .


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## Paul_Barnard

> The down turned nose is in the design of the boat.  If the running surface has a hook, that sounds like a problem to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily, but it can make a hull ride flatter than many feel comfortable with.
> 
> Another boat boated on this site, of which I have owned three, would stuff the bow WOT especially when overpowered.  Nothing wrong with the hull as it will accept being overpowered but if you don't back off hitting wakes frog togs aint gonna help. ;D ;D
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the boat was designed with a hook in the running surface and it performs well with that hook then it's a not a problem.  I have never known any boat to be made that way though.  If it was designed with a hook, I wonder why more owners haven't chimed in saying theirs has a hook too.  I have never known a boat to stay stuck to the surface the way the OP has described his sticking to the surface. Any boat should be responsive enough to trim to lift the bow enough to keep it from submarining.
> 
> Maybe IPB will ring in and describe their running surface to us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He has a foil on it.  Foils give stern lift. If he takes the foil off, I bet the problem goes away.
> 
> Lets get something straight. I can't stand Brad!!!!!!  But a witch hunt is not helping the OP here.   We don't even know if it has a hook yet : :
> 
> IPB's facebook page had Bonefish's phone number posted last week.   The 16 should do well under Bonefish.
Click to expand...

Witch hunt? I don't know Brad. I am speaking from my knowledge and understanding of boat design. And I allow that I may be wrong.


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## goon squad

Bug, I don't have any weight or want any weight to shift around. 

shalla, your thinkin like I'm thinkin I used a string from the transom all the way forward centered between the keel and the inner most strake or runner. the center of the belly is approx. 8-8 1/2' forward of the transom and is 3-4' in length, 1" deep and that is pinching the string tight to the bottom forward of the slight hook at transom. Also tried a 6 1/2' level all the way down in same location plus on keel itself with the same results, if that makes sense.


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## goon squad

Bug, also how do you make a boat with a completely different rolled edge with out a new mold?


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## RTS

> Just so everyone understands Mpduett211 started this post and I kinda jumped on board because we both are having pretty much the same problem and our boats were built from the new mold around the same time. I don't know how many were built but we can't be the only ones with this problem. Forget about the older 14'ers, this is a completely different boat.
> 
> Junky, Would you agree that if I clamp my motor directly to the transom (25 Yam 2st,stock alum.prop, no hydrofoil or any BS and trimmed correctly)have 3gal. of fuel under rear deck, life jacket & whistle only. The boat just the way I picked up from Brad, It should ride like a normal boat? Asap that is what I am going to try and I will video for ever one to see. This is by far my first boat and it looks like it won't be my last.
> 
> If it is an issue with the design who has to make it right, Brad or the new owner?
> 
> Here are a couple pics of the 1" belly in the bottom. They are a little hard to make out because on the reflections.
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That appears to be a pretty big discrepancy but it doesn't show the ends of the straight edge all inclusive. But based on that pic, I would get with the owner of the black hull posted and compare side by side. His seems to be fine. It would be worth a 8 hour drive because you may spend more time than that chasing the problem.

No new owner for the 14 mold as stated so if it is a manufacturing flaw you would hope Brad will make it right.

It appears that at least three have this issue. Has anybody made an appointment with Brad to see what he has to say? I mean, it would be simple to look at the mold and see if it's the same shape.


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## RTS

> Just so everyone understands Mpduett211 started this post and I kinda jumped on board because we both are having pretty much the same problem and our boats were built from the new mold around the same time. I don't know how many were built but we can't be the only ones with this problem. Forget about the older 14'ers, this is a completely different boat.
> 
> Junky, Would you agree that if I clamp my motor directly to the transom (25 Yam 2st,stock alum.prop, no hydrofoil or any BS and trimmed correctly)have 3gal. of fuel under rear deck, life jacket & whistle only. The boat just the way I picked up from Brad, It should ride like a normal boat? Asap that is what I am going to try and I will video for ever one to see. This is by far my first boat and it looks like it won't be my last.
> 
> If it is an issue with the design who has to make it right, Brad or the new owner?
> 
> Here are a couple pics of the 1" belly in the bottom. They are a little hard to make out because on the reflections.
> 
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> 
> I don't think there's a new mold, I think he just cut a different layout on the decks,added rub railing and a new style drain plug. Our hulls all look the same with the same hook. I think you guys should try a different prop and adjust some weight around.
Click to expand...

And you are running sans foil, correct?


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## PLANKTON7

Before a letter was even typed, someone should have confronted brad, I don't understand why y'all are wasting your breath with this. Report back when the problem is found. Confrontation is the key.


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## goon squad

> Just so everyone understands Mpduett211 started this post and I kinda jumped on board because we both are having pretty much the same problem and our boats were built from the new mold around the same time. I don't know how many were built but we can't be the only ones with this problem. Forget about the older 14'ers, this is a completely different boat.
> 
> Junky, Would you agree that if I clamp my motor directly to the transom (25 Yam 2st,stock alum.prop, no hydrofoil or any BS and trimmed correctly)have 3gal. of fuel under rear deck, life jacket & whistle only. The boat just the way I picked up from Brad, It should ride like a normal boat? Asap that is what I am going to try and I will video for ever one to see. This is by far my first boat and it looks like it won't be my last.
> 
> If it is an issue with the design who has to make it right, Brad or the new owner?
> 
> Here are a couple pics of the 1" belly in the bottom. They are a little hard to make out because on the reflections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [/img]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there's a new mold, I think he just cut a different layout on the decks,added rub railing and a new style drain plug. Our hulls all look the same with the same hook. I think you guys should try a different prop and adjust some weight around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you are running sans foil, correct?
Click to expand...

no foil, stock alum prop







[/img]


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## RTS

> Just so everyone understands Mpduett211 started this post and I kinda jumped on board because we both are having pretty much the same problem and our boats were built from the new mold around the same time. I don't know how many were built but we can't be the only ones with this problem. Forget about the older 14'ers, this is a completely different boat.
> 
> Junky, Would you agree that if I clamp my motor directly to the transom (25 Yam 2st,stock alum.prop, no hydrofoil or any BS and trimmed correctly)have 3gal. of fuel under rear deck, life jacket & whistle only. The boat just the way I picked up from Brad, It should ride like a normal boat? Asap that is what I am going to try and I will video for ever one to see. This is by far my first boat and it looks like it won't be my last.
> 
> If it is an issue with the design who has to make it right, Brad or the new owner?
> 
> Here are a couple pics of the 1" belly in the bottom. They are a little hard to make out because on the reflections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> [/img]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there's a new mold, I think he just cut a different layout on the decks,added rub railing and a new style drain plug. Our hulls all look the same with the same hook. I think you guys should try a different prop and adjust some weight around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you are running sans foil, correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no foil, stock alum prop
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [/img]
Click to expand...

Roger that. 

Then assuming the hulls have nearly the same hook, we are back to set up 101, correct?


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## SilentHunter

your all effed. You should of bought an ankona or water tested more and gotten more input before buying a chopper gun 14 ft skiff. It has hook it shouldn't be there for a "flat bottom" skiff. Thats your problem the hook will only increase with pressure put on the running surface. Your small hook will be a big hook with your floor flexing. "it either PreReleased when he laid down the chop way to thick and nuked the Chit out of it. Or he was just an idiot for thinking chopping a 14 ft skiff would be "efficient" a simple 3 layer layup of various Biax and Matt and an extra 2 hours of his time could of built a quality product. and only set him back a couple hundred in materials. Unless it PreReleases which would be his own fault and owe you a new boat. It should of never left when he pushed down on the floor and went ohh chit.

Sorry about your luck fellers! To fix it you can always weight the crap out of your hull and reinforce with a stringer system. More than likely it will not take care of your issues.... BUT A CALL TO YOUR INSURANCE AGENCY AFTER YOU LIGHT A MATCH AND WALK AWAY WILL FIX YOUR PROBLEMS.


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## Morgan_Duett

I talked to brad and he said that the boat is supposed to run "flat". I just wondered what would get my bow out of the water and stop my boat from porpoising. I didn't mean to start all of this. Skeeter my boat is the same as yours underneath with my same straight edge.


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## goon squad

I,m thinking a ShadowCast, Thanks for the input FreeDiver, I hate dealing with Brad so I will prove it is a manufacturing problem that is unacceptable and unsafe and let my attorney handle it.(I can't in good conscious sell it to anyone) Creek, put down your  popcorn. I'M DONE!!


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## Creek Runner

> I,m thinking a ShadowCast, Thanks for the input FreeDiver, I hate dealing with Brad so I will prove it is a manufacturing problem that is unacceptable and unsafe and let my attorney handle it.(I can't in good conscious sell it to anyone) Creek, put down your  popcorn. I'M DONE!!



Do you self a favor and check out the BT micro, if you want a better quality built boat, that rides good! Check out the video that was just posted on it. 

I can't put it down, it's kettle corn I'm addicted!!!


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## orlgheenoer

My friend has a 14 that is about a year old and it rides and fishes great. Contacting an attorney about your $1,400 boat that isn't perfect seems a little over the top to me.


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## devrep

that doesn't look so good.


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## DAVE_THOMAS

I have an early hull also and have no complaints on how it performs.with a trolling motor, battery,and fishing gear in the front hatch, 6gal. Tank in the middle of the floor and me on the rear deck im running just under 26mph on gps with a 87 suzuki dt15


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## RTS

> My friend has a 14 that is about a year old and it rides and fishes great. Contacting an attorney about your $1,400 boat that isn't perfect seems a little over the top to me.


 [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]

[smiley=deadhorse.gif]


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## Shalla Wata Rider

WOW Ya'll!!!! .... this post just bit the dust, especially when "attorneys" are involved ... Thanks Brado'....You know how a person gets a reputation?????????.................................THEY EARN IT !
Sorry for Ya'll who aren't happy with your purchase'............


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## Morgan_Duett

Does anybody with the older model, know if the hull is hooked a little on the bottom behind the bow?


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## Morgan_Duett

Also just so the world knows.. Im happy with my purchase I just wanna get it to ride to what I think would be right. I just wanted to know how everyone else that has the 14' , could share how they had there weight and motor set up.


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## DAVE_THOMAS

My hull has almost no hook.1/8" gap at the most but a couple of my strakes look like a roller coaster


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## noeettica

I had a Gheenoe Classic with a hook ...but it made it run better 

it was faster than my current one 

I would say that at the price point of this little boat there is nothing to complain about  (It's a little run about) NOT  A SPEEDBOAT  ...

Now if it was Delaminating or cracking/ falling apart that's a different story ... 



I should have read the previous posts but I agree with Ron and this poster ...

"Re: Ipb nose dive
Reply #119 - Yesterday at 21:11:19 Alert Board Moderator about this Post! Quote 
My friend has a 14 that is about a year old and it rides and fishes great. Contacting an attorney about your $1,400 boat that isn't perfect seems a little over the top to me. "


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## AlecWebster15

I have a 14 model and mine rides perfect. i have a 25hp 4stroke mercury and it runs fine. just think the boat is only 240lbs. whenever you put an engine on the back of that light of a boat it is going to hop a bit but you have to balance the weight out correctly. Brad would break his back to help people out if you just talk to him. where can you find a completed hull for this cheap? no where best deal around.


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## PG350

When I had my 13ft Gheenoe I put a 15hp 2 stroke Johnson on it. With this motor is started porpusing violently at higher speed to the point where I think it would have flipped back or nose dived. I put a hydrofoil on the motor and it completely stopped all negative and made the boat hop on plane instantly and run solid and flat to a top speed close to 30mph. 

I wonder if you could try one of these and then change the pin setting to get the nose up some.


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## AfterHours2

Best advice for you guys is to do a little more research and testing in order to get your rig running the way you want it. I have never just bought a boat, slapped a motor on the transom and took off in complete happiness. There are plenty of threads on this forum and an easy to use search feature. Manufacture blame for defect should be the last and final resort but I think you can overcome your issues with a little work and $$.. Best of luck..


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## kjski16

Looks like your down in St. Augustine. I'll be down there this weekend with my 14 if u want to check it out and compare. I have the new 20 zuke 4 stroke and a bob's jack plate and mine runs great.


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## Morgan_Duett

> My hull has almost no hook.1/8" gap at the most but a couple of my strakes look like a roller coaster


Is your boat the new mold?


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## DAVE_THOMAS

> My hull has almost no hook.1/8" gap at the most but a couple of my strakes look like a roller coaster
> 
> 
> 
> Is your boat the new mold?
Click to expand...

No,from the original mold.I got mine right after creekfreak


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## SilentHunter

you own lemons with hooks in them. That would be a manufacture defect. It should have a FLAT running surface why would you put a hook into any hull. it serves no purpose other than bow plow and unsafe hull. Giving Brad the benefit of doubt he either didn't notice this leaving his facility, or he didn't give two baits about you and just wanted your money. One's worse than the other but the hull should of been inspected once it was released from the mold. That's one of the first things you do when you pop a new hull out. Check strakes for air and make sure the hull is 100% no blemishes or prerelease. 

1400 bucks isnt much for a hull. But thats not the point. now if every 14 had that hook. thats the way its designed, you cant do anything, why you would make a flat bottom skiff not flat is beyond me but i guess it could happen. You should have a new boat made or sink the whore and swim to shore. i know some of the other afforable skiff makers in the game make a way better product for only a little bit more money. 

You live and learn, and you get what ya pay for folks. Sorry about your luck


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## Morgan_Duett

Both molds are supposed to have a slight hook in the bottom of the hull toward the front.


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## inshore_power_boat

I a finally getting on here since several people have told me about this thread. 
However here it goes. The new mold is 100% the same hull and running surface as the old 14' mold, the only thing that I changed is the rolled edge and added a flange for assisting in removing the boat from the mold. 
On another note. I have sold Inshore Power Boats to another boat builder on the West Coast of Florida. This will be a good move for the company as a whole and relieve me from the stress and headache of being a "One man band." 
It is amazing how people that are having issues with boats that I have but can hide behind a screen name and start threads on here on how unhappy they are with their skiffs. Funny how I never hear that from the horses mouth directly.


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## BugDopeforENP

What? Not one of you have nothing to say now? You have his full attention.


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## BugDopeforENP

> Bug, also how do you make a boat with a completely different rolled edge with out a new mold?


Your question has been answered above by IPB. Yes a new mold, but same hull and running surface as the old one.


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## goon squad

> What? Not one of you have nothing to say now? You have his full attention.


I already talked with Brad and will meet with him tomorrow. I do hope we can work this out. yes it got out of hand but that happens when you have so many different opinions.

Bug, different mold = different boat. Go back and read shalla & FreeDivers post about what can happen in the mold and or boat building process. FYI the boats are now $2450. 

my apologies to anyone I may have offended.


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## Creek Runner

> you own lemons with hooks in them. That would be a manufacture defect.  It should have a FLAT running surface why would you put a hook into any hull.  it serves no purpose other than bow plow and unsafe hull.  Giving Brad the benefit of doubt he either didn't notice this leaving his facility, or he didn't give two baits about you and just wanted your money.  One's worse than the other but the hull should of been inspected once it was released from the mold.  That's one of the first things you do when you pop a new hull out. Check strakes for air and make sure the hull is 100% no blemishes or prerelease.
> 
> 1400 bucks isnt much for a hull. But thats not the point.  now if every 14 had that hook. thats the way its designed, you cant do anything, why you would make a flat bottom skiff not flat is beyond me but i guess it could happen.   You should have a new boat made or sink the whore and swim to shore.   i know some of the other afforable skiff makers in the game make a way better product for only a little bit more money.
> 
> You live and learn, and you get what ya pay for folks.  Sorry about your luck


Lots of boat manufactures will put a hook into a hull, especially flats boats to get them to run flat. Some manufactures also put trips and or lifting strakes in the last 1/2 of the hull which all do the same thing drives the bow down! 

Just saying! I have no dog in this fight, back to my popcorn now!


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## Recidivists

> ...back to my popcorn now!


Heh, heh... [smiley=stir-pot.gif]


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## BugDopeforENP

> What? Not one of you have nothing to say now? You have his full attention.
> 
> 
> 
> I already talked with Brad and will meet with him tomorrow. I do hope we can work this out. yes it got out of hand but that happens when you have so many different opinions.
> 
> Bug, different mold = different boat. Go back and read shalla & FreeDivers post about what can happen in the mold and or boat building process. FYI the boats are now $2450.
> 
> my apologies to anyone I may have offended.
Click to expand...

Uhh yeah $2450 has always been the price, except for the few months he did a sale FYI . Where did that come from? :-? I am aware of what can happen in a mold. Once again, my boat has a hook and doesn't plow. If you want your boat to ride right why not add a little weight. It will solve the issue and it won't effect the draft either.


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## Morgan_Duett

Thanks to all that did help in trying to figure the weight distribution out on my new boat. Which I wi say again I do love I just needed him from more experienced people on set up. I've talked to brad as we'll already and he's helped me a lot, never said anything bad about him at all. But again thanks to all tht helped.


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## RTS

> Thanks to all that did help in trying to figure the weight distribution out on my new boat. Which I wi say again I do love I just needed him from more experienced people on set up. I've talked to brad as we'll already and he's helped me a lot, never said anything bad about him at all. But again thanks to all tht helped.


 [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]

Brad should be able to point you in the right direction and glad to see this thread take a turn to the positive. 

Work keeps me pretty busy but when I saw the legal notice decided to sit back and watch.  I'm an opportunist so if anyone thinks their boat is a POS I would consider purchasing the hull only on the cheap.  After all, by the time you pay the legal fees in the hopes you may win your case say two plus years from now you could be waaaaay ahead. 

Just say'n.


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## Dudeitsmattx

Yeah if I had one and had problems I would have contacted the manufacture first also not start a thread. Where on the west coast of Florida? I'm on the west coast.


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## fishboy73

I never said a bad thing about Brad either. I simply stated two facts: First, he was selling the company. Second, my boat has a hook and "had" porpoising issues. But like it what was mentioned numerous times in this thread and others, weight distribution was the key to remedy the issue. Since I put a trolling motor and battery up front, I no longer have the porpoise issue. My brother and I both have IPB 14's and fish the hell out of them. I had low expectations of an 1800.00 boat and I have not been dissapointed by it at all. I have a 15hp Yamaha 4-stroke on it and it will run 24.2 on gps with just me in it and it does everything that I want it to. If I want to haul azz and take a lot of people out, I have a 24' Everglades with a 300 hp Yamaha on it. ;D


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## Morgan_Duett

All I did was move stuff around and added weight to the rear it rides alot better now. And idk if I'm missing something or I just didn't read it or whatever but what's all the legal stuff about? How said anything about that, I don't have the time or money lol to be playin that game?! Besides the point and back to the original post.... If your boat has the porpoiseing issue or is plowing add weight, center it out too some in front some in middle some more in back it will run better.


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## Morgan_Duett

No more bull chit either I don't like feelin like the bad guy cause I started this thread. I just needed some help from more intelligent friends. Thanks


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## RTS

> No more bull chit either I don't like feelin like the bad guy cause I started this thread. I just needed some help from more intelligent friends. Thanks


That should have been a reasonable expectation for this site. 

Thanks for posting your results so others with similar issues may benefit.


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## HaMm3r

> No more bull chit either I don't like feelin like the bad guy cause I started this thread. I just needed some help from more intelligent friends. Thanks


I was going to make a post saying you did nothing wrong with your original question, but got sidetracked and by the time I got back to it you'd responded in your own defense. You weren't bad-mouthing IPB or the hull in any way. You just wanted to know if anyone else had seen your issue and how they corrected it. That's what this site is all about...sharing knowledge and experience, after all.


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## BugDopeforENP

> All I did was move stuff around and added weight to the rear it rides alot better now. And idk if I'm missing something or I just didn't read it or whatever but what's all the legal stuff about? How said anything about that, I don't have the time or money lol to be playin that game?! Besides the point and back to the original post.... If your boat has the porpoiseing issue or is plowing add weight, center it out too some in front some in middle some more in back it will run better.



Good to read. Now it's time to fish.


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## bamorris83

Did you ever get your setup the way you want it. I have having a similar problem with my new ipb 14.


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## jldriver

You might want to start a new thread to get some more opinions on your issue, but either way, it'd be important to know how your boat is setup and also some more detailed info on your specific issues...

If you can, try to include: 

Passenger and gear weight (roughly how much and where in the boat)
Engine hp/weight
Engine height (if unusual) and trim position (jackplate? power tilt/trim? manual trim position?)
Trim tabs? Hydrofoil? A giant anchor tied to your poling platform? Anything else that would slow the boat or cause the back end to dip down in the water.

As a general rule, if you're porpoising you usually need to throttle up and/or move weight to the front of the boat. If both of those fail, then you may need to look into trim tabs or hydrofoil. However, that really shouldn't be necessary with your boat.


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## Skydiver

> Did you ever get your setup the way you want it. I have having a similar problem with my new ipb 14.


You might try moving some weight around in your boat. Mine is the same as yours and I have never experienced porposing or this "nose diving" thing. My boat currently has a Merc 15hp two stroke with a tilt and trim, no hydrofoils or tabs. It will have a Suzuki 20hp four stroke on it next week.

VIDEO: Running across Mosquito Lagoon a couple days ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiBlgmfKidY&feature=em-upload_owner

What motor do you have on your boat Captain Stabbin?


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