# jackplate vs tilt and trim



## marcus (Mar 22, 2011)

hey all i am new to this forum and need a little help deciding what to do. I am looking forward to learning from what everyone can teach me on here. this may not be the right forum for this but i have been all over the interet looking for a answer on this topic. somone told me to come to this forum beacuse they said there are alot of people on here who have done some pretty cool things with there rigs for running shallow. Now i have a few ?s some may be dumb but for the most part i think i know what i am talking bout.

Now to start with i actually have 14 foot mod vjon boat with a 25 hp suzuki clamp on motor, both the boat nd motor are long shaft, and want to pick up some speed plus run shallower.

Here are my questions. . 1. What woud pick up more speed a trim and tilt or a jack plate? 
2. can a tilt and trim help me run shallow like a jackplate would? 
3. is there a manual jackpate that anyone has tried for a clamp on motor? 
4. is there a big enough diff caused by a tnt or a jackplte to spend the money on a small boat like this? 

This is where i have no idea what im talking about

5. Is there a low water pickup or a small engine like a 92 25hp suzuki?
6. can you put a surface piercing prop on any motor? and do they slow you down? and do you get prop slippage on these?

i know its alot to answer but i am mostly intrested in a jackplate or a power tilt and trim but cant find much about what whould really help me the best. i Have really been looking at the cmc, th marine and bobs machine product line. Thanks for everyones time and help.


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## rashouri87 (Jul 2, 2009)

1. technically, a JP would give you more speed, if the motor is currently trimmed right using the "holes" provided in the mounting bracket. also the "speed" gained by the JP will be extremely marginal, you may see some slight RPM gain from having less lower in the water and 1 maybe 2 mph gain.
2.the T/T will help you run slightly shallower at idle only, on plane, it will push your bow up and slightly dig your stern, and may cause you to porpoise if your bow is too high and you are not weight balanced. for running shallower on plane, a JP would be the way to go, as you can keep your running attitude and bow at the correct level while raising your engine. remember that even with a hydraulic JP you will be gaining a matter of 3-4 inches at the most ideal conditions
3. bobs makes a manual jackplate I've seen, but i really have no experience with this.
4. frankly, the money spent on this stuff will only give you marginal gains, speed is generally achieved through more horsepower, and tilt and trim and a jackplate will help you change your handling characteristics and running attitude and help you tune your boat, esp the T/T. if this is what you're interested in, then it might be a good move, if speed is what you're interested in, then get more HP.
5. i don't know
6. a surface piercing prop has a lot of slip, that's the idea, i don't know if they're available for all motors. If you're really interested in this, I recommend checking into surface drive mud motors for your jon boat.


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## marcus (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks rummya87 wou would not belive how many forums i have asked this in and never once got a well thought out answer. its either make your own jackplate or get a jet motor, i appreciate the advice to the ?s i have asked. i lso have one more ? do you think that a hydrolic jack plate is worth the money over a manual? i just dont see me adjsting the motor that much once i find the so called sweet spot or spot that would help my boat perfor the best, but then again i have never used either of these units.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

5) A speed/performance shop will machine anything you want, for a price.
The question becomes "How much do you want to spend for a low water pickup and nosecone?"




> 14 foot mod v jon boat with a 25 hp suzuki


I'd stop with that statement right there, get a grin on my face
and head for the oyster creeks to do some exploring.
I don't see the need to spend the time or money to modify
what is already an ideal rig for shallow backwaters.

25 hp on a 250 lb hull, can you say "Hang Time?"

btw, welcome to the forum.


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## marcus (Mar 22, 2011)

well i was just kind of curious about a nose cone have not done much research about them and like you said prolbey would not waist my time and money on one, but as for a jackplate my motor is sitting about 3 in lower then it should be and i figured with a 5 in setback i could raise it about 3 and a half inches or so what would make a bit of differnce for speed and running depth. i run a skinny river for bowhunting up here in north dakota so at nights i have about 15 miles to head home and it not fun hitting shallow spots at night so need all i can to help me out. im sure you would not like getting home everynight from bowhunting and having to clean the $#!% out of your shorts from hitting shallow spots full speed either ;D


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## rashouri87 (Jul 2, 2009)

well, IMO, if you really are wanting to spend your pennies ... the atlas micro jacker will solve that problem, its 23 pounds so on that light hull you might lose a little bit of draft at rest but you will definitely be able to pick your lower up a couple of inches for squeezing by those tight areas...down here we use them for crossing shallow flats or sandbars and getting on plane in shallow areas....this will run you about 600 and is controlled by a momentary toggle switch for up/down...the unit is self enclosed so you only need the four holes and a battery....might be more weight than you want..


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## robwill54 (Jan 18, 2011)

I just put a micro jacker on my rig; added speed and I can run the engine around 4-5" shallower than without the plate. Money well spent in my case. A manual plate that you set and forget is cheaper and will do the same job; you just don't have the flexibility that the hydraulic one has. Toys are fun.

seabob


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

ND- where do you live in ND?


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## marcus (Mar 22, 2011)

ducknut,, I live in taylor its in western North dakota, its about 30 miles from dickinson or a 100 miles west of bismarck. are you familiar with north dakota?? 

Seabob what kind of rig do you have and i was ondering how much higher you have your cav plate set from the bottom of you boat? the reason i ask is cuz i have read so many diff things about every so many inches of setback you can raise it so many inches i dont know what to believe.

Anyway i have decided to go with a jackplate from the help of you guys on here i am not sure yet if it will be manual or hydrolic yet but once i decide i will let everyone know what i go with and what the outcome was. thanks again


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## robwill54 (Jan 18, 2011)

nd, I have a '98 Hells Bay Whipray side console with a 25 Yam 2 stroke. My memory won't serve me so I will measure the cav plate tomorrow. I think I run it with the top of the water pickup even with the bottom of the boat and a 4 blade prop. Will double check it.


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## rashouri87 (Jul 2, 2009)

on a skiff like yours, you need as little setback as possible. Setback is used to position the motor in "cleaner" water coming off of the back of the boat, which allows bigger motors to be run higher, and also accounts for the transom angle. Your skiff or JB probably needs nearly no setback, only vertical lift.


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## marcus (Mar 22, 2011)

i looked at my motor last night and it is set on the last notch what makes my motor level with the boat would a little tilt give it more speed or is that how you want it set on a small boat?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Been to ND every year for the last several. Hunt Devil's Lake.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Is Devils Lake still growing? Last time I was there was `97 and it was lapping on a few doorsteps.

Running shallow in any boat usually involves multiple upgrades. A jack plate is the first purchase and it gets the most attention, but tabs, cupped prop and a cupped cav plate are usually necessary in order to get really appreciable results. You can do it and keep it light enough for a small boat to tolerate, but you usually need to go all the way or not bother IMO, although you can upgrade over time.

A T&T makes every boat operate better on plane (if you can afford the extra weight when you are setting still), but it doesn't do much for shallow operation (some benefit, but not much). No boat is at perfect trim at all times because the load varies day to day. T&T allows you to customize your trim to the load on that day. If the transom is squatting or if the you are porpoising, you trim the motor down. If the bow is plowing, you trim the motor up. 

"Power everything" is very sexy and it will allow you to be very cavalier about how you load your boat, but powered stuff gets very heavy. On a small boat, you can usually find the pin hole, JP height and tab settings that work best and then balance the load so you don't need to touch them again. Manual tabs and JPs are pretty light while their power counter parts get pretty heavy and greatly increase complexity.

Nate


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I've been there every year for the last decade and it is still growing. Lapping on a few doors is an understatement - two towns have been lost. 

Wanna know where the mystical City of Atlantis is?


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## ducktrooper (May 6, 2008)

Guys..this looks like the ticket for my boat when flyfishing on tailwaters or rivers that can get really shallow. Other than price, why wouldn't more people use these to optimize performance at varying speeds and depths? $600 isn't cheap but that's nothing compared to what people will spend on other options etc.

What would be downside or using one of these on a Riverhawk/Gheenoe...15-16' in rock infested rivers?


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

'trooper which are you referring to?


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## ducktrooper (May 6, 2008)

Riverhawk b52......very similar hull to Gheenoe Classic.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

I meant to ask are you referring to the jack plate or trim & tilt?

There would be no down side to using either one, just the added weight on the stern. I have an Atlas Microjacker on my boat and really like it for taking advantage of a cupped prop. 80% of the shallow areas around me are mud bottom so there isn't a worry of hitting something solid at 25mph.

If you're not positive of what lies under the water, running shallow can be detrimental to your health! ;D


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