# Solved - Brand New Ankona/Tohatsu - Already Having Motor Issues



## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Hey all, as the title says, already having some motor issues with my Tohatsu 60. Here's the details I can give, I'm looking for help diagnosing the problem.

*First 5 Hours*
While breaking the motor in, I followed the book and never got above 3k rpm. During this period there were no issues but some wind did blow me into a shallow oyster bed which dinged my prop and got some mud sucked into the engine.

*5-12 Hours*
Would occasionally get the engine above 3600 rpm into the 4-4200 area. No issues ever arose until around 10 hours on the motor.
After 10 hours I started opening things up at this point and would cruise around 3800-4k rpm with occasional bursts to 5k. On one trip I was cruising at about 4k and then the motor sputtered and died. I put it in neutral and cranked it, started right up. No harm, no foul, I continued to the launch without issue.

The next trip, the same thing happened and I could not start the motor even though it was cranking fine. At this point, I brought it into the shop for a 10-hour check and to look into this issue. They said it looked like the battery was getting disconnected but also mentioned a fuel house was disconnected and they reattached it.

*12-16 Hours*
Got the boat back and took it out. Got up to 3600 rpm, no issue, onward to 4200, no issue, burst of 5k, no issue. Brought it down to 4200 and cruised to my fishing spot and ... it died. This time I checked the primer bulb and it was flat, no pressure. Pumped it a few times until pressure and it started right up. Ran it again and it died just a few minutes later.

Since this trip, this is how the motor runs all the time. Fine between idle - 3500 rpm. Anything above this and stalls and dies. From then on, that threshold of how many rpm I can run it at gets progressively lower.

I have changed the fuel separator filter, looked for any loose connections, totally removed the vent cap and still it persists. 

Does anyone have any idea on what to do next? Currently have the boat in the shop for the 20 hour look over and will have them look at it, but I'm not feeling confident on this.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

It’s a new boat and outboard, why not call the shop you bought it from? 
Never break a motor in out in the bay, find a channel to run so you aren’t getting blown into shell beds.


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

Is the tank vented, or if a portable tank is the vent open?


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> It’s a new boat and outboard, why not call the shop you bought it from?
> Never break a motor in out in the bay, find a channel to run so you aren’t getting blown into shell beds.


I'm trying not to put Ankona on blast but I have been in touch with them and they seem to be completely stumped.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

SS06 said:


> Is the tank vented, or if a portable tank is the vent open?


It's vented and the vent cap is totally removed, there's no blockage of airflow.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Is it pissing?


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Seems to be a restriction somewhere. How is the fuel line rigged? Can you see where it goes into the rigging chase and comes out at the rear?


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I've had more than one primer bulb that was bad right out of the box. Worth a look. Also might be a faulty fuel pump. I'd expect the shop/dealer to do the diagnostics on a boat that new. First thing I'd do is watch fuel pressure. Probably need a remote gauge to check it while under a load, though.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

bryson said:


> I've had more than one primer bulb that was bad right out of the box. Worth a look. Also might be a faulty fuel pump. I'd expect the shop/dealer to do the diagnostics on a boat that new. First thing I'd do is watch fuel pressure. Probably need a remote gauge to check it while under a load, though.


The reason I'm not putting Ankona on blast is I live in Louisiana and they aren't close enough to look at this themselves. If it is an expensive fix, I will put them on blast if they refuse to help with the costs.

That said, yes, it pees fine. There are no visible issues I can see aside from it stalling. Looking at the fuel in the fuel filter it looks clean. The fuel filter appears to have adequate fuel inside of it as well. Oil is clean, everything looks spotless.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Sublime said:


> Seems to be a restriction somewhere. How is the fuel line rigged? Can you see where it goes into the rigging chase and comes out at the rear?


There's a tank inside of the hatch at the bow, I can see everything going into and out of the tank there, but I lose it when it leaves the hatch until I can pick it up at the stern and see it go into the primer ball, the fuel water separator, and then into the case.

From what I can see, everything looks good (I am not an expert though). 

One thing that makes me think it's not a restriction and more a fuel pump issue is this gets worse as time goes on. The last time I went out I had an hour of good running and then it progressively got worse to where I couldn't get 5 minutes of good running.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Pull the fuel line, replace it and send them a bill if it fixes the issue and they don’t help. From all I’ve heard they are great people.


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## Pudldux (Mar 3, 2016)

Shouldn’t the line go into the fuel water separator then the bulb then the engine?


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Pudldux said:


> Shouldn’t the line go into the fuel water separator then the bulb then the engine?


Boat is currently in the shop, but from memory, it goes bulb to separator to engine.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

gibby said:


> Boat is currently in the shop, but from memory, it goes bulb to separator to engine.


Not on any boats I’ve rigged or worked on.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I would try to run the boat off a different (known-good) portable tank and fuel line/bulb. That way you isolate the engine as much as possible.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

Sounds like a fuel issue and probably not the motor. I once had to replace my fuel separator housing unit due to corrosion which compromised a good seal and allowed pump to suck air. Acted just like yours. Might not be that but it definitely sounds like a fuel system issue and I doubt the fuel pump- last possibility. Bryson's suggestion is a good one to help isolate the issue.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

bryson said:


> I would try to run the boat off a different (known-good) portable tank and fuel line/bulb. That way you isolate the engine as much as possible.


I should have post this. I second or third this advice.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

This reminds me of a crack that i had in on my furl tank. Fill up tanks, run for however long and then it dies. Bulb is flat. Re prime bulb and run again until it dies. I looked at everything and then i finally saw a small crack on the outside of the portable tank. That crack allowed air into the tank and the fuel line would lose pressure. I had to prime the bulb on a 12 mile run back to the ramp while my buddy drove my boat.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Don't just call them - return it to them and have them call you when it is fixed.

It's brand new for goodness sake.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

He is in Louisiana, that won’t be a skip and a jump or cheap trip. Definitely try and avoid that if possible. Most times it’s something simple. Hope so, anyway.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

GullsGoneWild said:


> This reminds me of a crack that i had in on my furl tank. Fill up tanks, run for however long and then it dies. Bulb is flat. Re prime bulb and run again until it dies. I looked at everything and then i finally saw a small crack on the outside of the portable tank. That crack allowed air into the tank and the fuel line would lose pressure. I had to prime the bulb on a 12 mile run back to the ramp while my buddy drove my boat.


Yeah I've definitely done this. But sometimes even that hasn't worked.


bryson said:


> I would try to run the boat off a different (known-good) portable tank and fuel line/bulb. That way you isolate the engine as much as possible.


This is a really good idea. If the shop can't figure it out quickly, I'll try this on my own.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

I think @bryson hit it right. Get a portable tank and confirm and deny that it is a tank/line/bulb issue. As a heads up, I has a Suzuki that did that same thing. Ran fine then shut down to a crawl one day. They said the motor was going into limp mode as there was a slight drop in water pressure due to over rev in the impeller. I’d check the impeller and water pump too in case something is stuck in there or the impeller is chipped. I have a tohatsu 60 on order now so let me know what you figure out! Good luck.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

VANMflyfishing said:


> I think @bryson hit it right. Get a portable tank and confirm and deny that it is a tank/line/bulb issue. As a heads up, I has a Suzuki that did that same thing. Ran fine then shut down to a crawl one day. They said the motor was going into limp mode as there was a slight drop in water pressure due to over rev in the impeller. I’d check the impeller and water pump too in case something is stuck in there or the impeller is chipped. I have a tohatsu 60 on order now so let me know what you figure out! Good luck.


How is there over rev in the impeller? The impeller is rotating directly in porportion with the drive shaft.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> How is there over rev in the impeller? The impeller is rotating directly in porportion with the drive shaft.


No clue. Sounded strange to me too, but that’s what the shop said. They said there was a code for impeller over rev which causes the system to think the engine isn’t getting enough water and goes into limp mode to protect itself from overheating. I thought there was some prop slippage that caused it and threw off that code. But, I replaced the impeller and everything worked fine after that. Only 70-80 hours on the motor and the original impeller didn’t look that chewed up. The computers in these outboards are something else.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

VANMflyfishing said:


> No clue. Sounded strange to me too, but that’s what the shop said. They said there was a code for impeller over rev which causes the system to think the engine isn’t getting enough water and goes into limp mode to protect itself from overheating. I thought there was some prop slippage that caused it and threw off that code. But, I replaced the impeller and everything worked fine after that. Only 70-80 hours on the motor and the original impeller didn’t look that chewed up. The computers in these outboards are something else.


I’ve heard of something similar with a guy and his Tohatsu. I have had to research these outboards to be sure my pickup system would not cause any sillh issues that would cause the CPU to crash. Passed with flying colors quite a few so far.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

What Bryson advised is exactly what a pro would do - before anything else... By-pass your entire fuel system with a known good portable tank and fuel line then run it. If that cures tour problems then you know it’s your fuel set-up and not your motor...

Troubles with a fuel system can be the tank, the pickup in the tank (if there’s debris in a tank you’ll be able to run at lower rpms but starve out as you open it up), the fuel line itself (first item, check all clamps for tightness, then look to see if there’s any nicks in the line or kinks that might restrict fuel), next is your fuel separator, last is your fuel bulb. I know more than one tech who will replace an existing fuel bulb with the one that BRP makes since they’re the best around...

Hope this helps. Post up what you find and how you fixed it...

Aren’t boats fun?


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## Cork (Sep 10, 2020)

I would temporarily bypass the fuel, water separator. How many micron is the filter element? Some have too much back pressure.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> No clue. Sounded strange to me too, but that’s what the shop said. They said there was a code for impeller over rev which causes the system to think the engine isn’t getting enough water and goes into limp mode to protect itself from overheating. I thought there was some prop slippage that caused it and threw off that code. But, I replaced the impeller and everything worked fine after that. Only 70-80 hours on the motor and the original impeller didn’t look that chewed up. The computers in these outboards are something else.


I've actually had a sneaky suspicion this might be it because this happens only when on or very close to plane. It is certainly possible this is all user error and what I'm really trying to do is remove all of my errors from the equation. After all, I am a nooby coming from kayak world and I could very easily just be doing something wrong.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

gibby said:


> I've actually had a sneaky suspicion this might be it because this happens only when on or very close to plane. It is certainly possible this is all user error and what I'm really trying to do is remove all of my errors from the equation. After all, I am a nooby coming from kayak world and I could very easily just be doing something wrong.


I would try to slowly get on plan versus throwing the throttle down. That might help. It happened to me more when there was a load in the boat. Another thing the Suzuki rep said was, if it’s not propped or positioned correctly, under load the boat isn’t moving fast enough out of the hull and some prop wash air bubbles can be mixed in with what the impeller sucks up. Could be BS, but maybe try slowly getting on plan for the next trips. Could rule out that error.


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## jonny (May 1, 2007)

gibby said:


> The reason I'm not putting Ankona on blast is I live in Louisiana and they aren't close enough to look at this themselves. If it is an expensive fix, I will put them on blast if they refuse to help with the costs.
> 
> That said, yes, it pees fine. There are no visible issues I can see aside from it stalling. Looking at the fuel in the fuel filter it looks clean. The fuel filter appears to have adequate fuel inside of it as well. Oil is clean, everything looks spotless.


Hold off on blasting Ankona this could be a engine issue. Which they would have zero control over. And the motor has the best warranty in the business. I think you are going to be fine. Just gotta figure it out. 
Does it have a fuel filter/water separator? Are the in/out plumbed correctly? Is fuel filter empty when the bulb is flat? If you unscrew the filter does the bulb return to normal? Almost seems like a vapor lock situation. Probably going to be something stupid and simple.


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## Gregorya24 (Oct 1, 2020)

Run an external tank


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Where in Louisiana? If you're near Baton Rouge, you can drag it over to my house and I'll help you with it. I think I have a spare tank with a tohatsu fuel fitting but I'll have to do some digging. You wouldn't be the first skiff I've seen with the primer bulb installed backwards


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Who rigged it?


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## jay redfisher (Feb 8, 2021)

gibby said:


> The reason I'm not putting Ankona on blast is I live in Louisiana and they aren't close enough to look at this themselves. If it is an expensive fix, I will put them on blast if they refuse to help with the costs.
> 
> That said, yes, it pees fine. There are no visible issues I can see aside from it stalling. Looking at the fuel in the fuel filter it looks clean. The fuel filter appears to have adequate fuel inside of it as well. Oil is clean, everything looks spotless.


My Tohatsu 15 hp looses prime and need to be pumped up each start no matter how short time is between starting . I suspect the problem is with the fitting where gas line attaches to motor. I just noticed that sometimes it doesn’t click into place when I thought it was secure. Not sure which fitting is the problem but I suspect it may be what you’re experiencing. I’ve been too lazy to bring it in because it runs fine when re- primed. Try a different remote tank if u can borrow one to try and narrow down the issue. End of day , it’s not a Yamaha. I bought it because it was 16 lbs lighter than Yamaha 15, which is a lot since I take it on and off each time I use it on my Jon boat. If I have to replace my 2004 40 hp Yamaha that is on my skiff, I would buy another Yamaha. I’m 70 so the 40 hp may outlive me.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

jmrodandgun said:


> Where in Louisiana? If you're near Baton Rouge, you can drag it over to my house and I'll help you with it. I think I have a spare tank with a tohatsu fuel fitting but I'll have to do some digging. You wouldn't be the first skiff I've seen with the primer bulb installed backwards


I can do that, live in Nola but family and friends are all up there. I'll message you when I'm back from Florida. Thanks man.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Who rigged it?


This is all straight from ankona.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

CKEAT said:


> He is in Louisiana, that won’t be a skip and a jump or cheap trip. Definitely try and avoid that if possible. Most times it’s something simple. Hope so, anyway.


Is there a Tohatsu dealer in LA near him? 

He could call Mel and chat with him and then take it to the nearest Tohatsu dealer.


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## Tom DeBruin (Jun 22, 2018)

Call Tohatsu and find a dealer to work on it. It's under warranty and should not be doing that. They stand by the motors.


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## Utley Duckling (Dec 30, 2019)

gibby said:


> Hey all, as the title says, already having some motor issues with my Tohatsu 60. Here's the details I can give, I'm looking for help diagnosing the problem.
> 
> *First 5 Hours*
> While breaking the motor in, I followed the book and never got above 3k rpm. During this period there were no issues but some wind did blow me into a shallow oyster bed which dinged my prop and got some mud sucked into the engine.
> ...


Potentially a "heat sink" where, after running it at high rpm, and then not letting it idle before cutting the motor, the fuel will boil....

I had the same issue with my Tohatsu. Once I let it idle for a minute or two before shutting it down, never had the issue again....


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## nowgrn4 (Apr 24, 2021)

gibby said:


> Hey all, as the title says, already having some motor issues with my Tohatsu 60. Here's the details I can give, I'm looking for help diagnosing the problem.
> 
> *First 5 Hours*
> While breaking the motor in, I followed the book and never got above 3k rpm. During this period there were no issues but some wind did blow me into a shallow oyster bed which dinged my prop and got some mud sucked into the engine.
> ...


First thing I would check are the 4 fittings on the fuel separator mount on a newly rigged boat with fueling issues. Pump up the bulb till it's really hard and check for any dampness around the fittings with a tan unbleached fiber napkin. Two, Check the O-Rings on any quick connects. Three, are all barbed fuel connections double clamped Mil-spec style?


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## tcov (Apr 7, 2018)

Has it been run on an external tank yet as suggested?


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

tcov said:


> Has it been run on an external tank yet as suggested?


Not yet, I don't have space at my house and the Tohatsu dealer near me is backlogged to hell and back.

I actually picked it up from the tohatsu shop near me today to start trying to trouble shoot myself. First new thing I noticed is a strong smell of gas inside the bow hatch after it sat in the sun. 

This is with the vent completely wide open. Am I right to read into this that there's some kind of loose connection in there to cause that?


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

It's possible but with polypropylene or such tanks fume smells can occur without a leak.


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## Pinedawg (May 9, 2021)

My experience with outboards for over 40 years is this:
They either run good or they don’t. A trouble maker, is always a trouble maker.
You have to run them like your going to run them from day one. Run it easy in the beginning, it won’t run well hard later. Run it at all speeds in the beginning and it will handle anything. Once it’s warm, it should run wide open no problem. They test them that way too, why can’t you run it like that? How do they get the power specs without winding one up to full throttle?


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

gibby said:


> Not yet, I don't have space at my house and the Tohatsu dealer near me is backlogged to hell and back.
> 
> I actually picked it up from the tohatsu shop near me today to start trying to trouble shoot myself. First new thing I noticed is a strong smell of gas inside the bow hatch after it sat in the sun.
> 
> ...


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Everything in this story is on Ankona rigging or the op owner.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

sjrobin said:


> Everything in this story is on Ankona rigging or the op owner.


I am still wondering why Ankona has not stepped up.


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## bababouy (Feb 26, 2018)

I have an advent with a tohatsu 60hp on it. I picked it up April 9th, 2020. First I had an issue with a strong gas smell from the front hatch for the first couple of months. I finally stuck my hand around the tank fittings and all of the hose clamps were loose. There should be 4 clamps on the fill tube. Then I had an issue with a coil pack going in and out at high idle around 30-40 hours. Tohatsu shipped a couple of new coils from Japan, which took a three or four weeks, because there were none in the US. The last trip out, I experienced something similar to what you are experiencing. I was running on plane in flat water at just about WOT and the motor just dropped to an idle. It didn't stall, so I idled for 20 seconds then got back on plane. A few miles later the motor totally stalled out. It did stat back up and run fine the rest of the day. 

I just had it in for the 100 hour service and this was the second time that I have been out since. I am going to go over all of the hose clamps and fittings on the fuel system to double check them. You have a filter under the cowl that has a short line running to it and from it. The filter is clear and should have a red ring in the bottom of it.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

A quick update on this. I do have a response from Ankona on something to try, but I'll update on that after I try it.

I've been in Orange Beach for the last few days and this issue didn't arise while out there, but also I didn't get the rpms above 2k because of the beach traffic. 

Before heading to Orange Beach I did take the boat out to try some new things. Primarily:

Changed the fuel / water separator (and tightened it)
Kept the trim much closer to the hull while running it
I ran around all day with this at about 4200 rpm and... no issues. No stall, no chokes, it just ran fine. I did this and went on two 20-30 minute runs. Still no issue until coming back to dock with about 2 miles to go I decided to push it. Got it up to 5k rpm and it was running fine and I still had a good bit of throttle to give it. So I did that and it finally stalled.

It didn't stall like normal, though. It sounded like the propeller overspun and the engine shut off from that. 

My plan now is to go run it again and see if I can duplicate last Friday and see if I can maintain at 5k rpm. _Either way that goes_ there are still some things I am going to do.

I am going to do the same run-through that @bababouy did on all the fittings and try Ankona's suggestion for what to do at the same time. I am also going to install a new prop as well as finish the 20-hour service where I'll ask the shop to run it in a tank to see if they can get the same results. 

If at that point nothing has changed, it will be on Ankona to provide a solution.


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## bababouy (Feb 26, 2018)

I have a tohatsu dealer by me that has a good relationship with Tohatsu. He runs them on his boats and his reputation in South Florida is second to none. He put a bunch of time into diagnosing the coil issue and replaced a bunch of other parts on the motor and the fuel separator and was able to bill that time back to Tohatsu as a warranty issue. You may want to do the same. Ankona rigged the motor, but they aren't an outboard shop or a tohatsu repair facility. My recent issue may be a prop issue also. I was in Charleston the week before and ran over some oyster beds which caused the motor to stall


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

gibby said:


> A quick update on this. I do have a response from Ankona on something to try, but I'll update on that after I try it.
> 
> I've been in Orange Beach for the last few days and this issue didn't arise while out there, but also I didn't get the rpms above 2k because of the beach traffic.
> 
> ...


Just curious, have you measured motor height? Ankona did mount my motor a little high.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Just curious, have you measured motor height? Ankona did mount my motor a little high.


I have not. Are you asking because of the difference when I changed the tilt position?


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Could it be going into some kind of limp mode from seeing some sort of cavitation, pressure drop or something?


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Sublime said:


> Could it be going into some kind of limp mode from seeing some sort of cavitation, pressure drop or something?


This would actually make sense because the worst day I had with these issues only started after I took a turn too sharp and the prop wasn't in the water as much as it was previously. It died pretty quick in that turn and sounded _exactly_ like it sounded when I killed it over 5k last Friday. This is why I'm changing the prop. New Orleans roads and inexperience in a shallow oyster bed bent the prop and it needs to be replaced anyway, but I think trimming it in reduced the boil the bent prop is making.

Now, I did just let it idle in my driveway while flushing it and I did see air bubbles in the fuel filter - so that is not totally solved. But I think there is something to this cavitation thing.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

I should say, it seems like a ventilation issue*.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Sounds like something similar to what was wrong with mine. The cavitation plate should be level with the bottom of the hull. Mine was about an inch up causing a loss of pressure in the impeller/water pump and going into limp mode. I'd check it out. Could simply lower the motor one hole and see if that works.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Sounds like something similar to what was wrong with mine. The cavitation plate should be level with the bottom of the hull. Mine was about an inch up causing a loss of pressure in the impeller/water pump and going into limp mode. I'd check it out. Could simply lower the motor one hole and see if that works.


That’s not causing it. He has a fuel issue and apparently the people that rigged his boat don’t think it’s on them.
I’ve run a lot of skiffs with these Tohatsus and worked with them. None shut down even with the engine mounted really high.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> That’s not causing it. He has a fuel issue and apparently the people that rigged his boat don’t think it’s on them.
> I’ve run a lot of skiffs with these Tohatsus and worked with them. None shut down even with the engine mounted really high.


I'd like to avoid a flame war here. Ankona has not offered to directly fix, but I'm also 20 hours away. They also have not refused to help pay for it, I just haven't wanted to let it sit in a backlogged shop. It's not so cut and dry there.

Also, I think it is a combination of issues that I'm getting closer to solving. I can see when I take the cowl off every once and a while an air bubble comes in, but it's not filling with air bubbles. It also ran a ton better when I trimmed the motor all the way in, which could indicate a ventilation issue. 

I've already said what I will try next, and that remains the plan. I will run it again tomorrow to see if I can duplicate last Friday's results and go from there.


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## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

gibby said:


> I'd like to avoid a flame war here. Ankona has not offered to directly fix, but I'm also 20 hours away. They also have not refused to help pay for it, I just haven't wanted to let it sit in a backlogged shop. It's not so cut and dry there.
> 
> Also, I think it is a combination of issues that I'm getting closer to solving. I can see when I take the cowl off every once and a while an air bubble comes in, but it's not filling with air bubbles. It also ran a ton better when I trimmed the motor all the way in, which could indicate a ventilation issue.
> 
> I've already said what I will try next, and that remains the plan. I will run it again tomorrow to see if I can duplicate last Friday's results and go from there.


I know you don’t want to leave it at a shop for any length of time but:

Take it to a Tohatsu dealer near you and let them fix it. If it’s the motor they should cover it under warranty. If it’s a rigging issue....Ankona should cover the bill.

Maybe give Mel a courtesy call and let him know your plan.

My dos centavos.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Update on this. It seems 100% to me that this is a combination of issues. Here's how today went. 

I knew my time was limited as I did not fill up due to a shortage of non-ethanol fuel, but I took it on a 5 mile run at 4500 rpm and no problem. At 5 miles I then revved up to 5k rpm and it died. But, this was due to my error - I left the vent cap closed. I took the cap off and opened the gas cap to let air in and wow did it suck air in quickly. 

I then fished for a little while and went a couple of miles on the trolling motor before turning back in to head to the dock. Good thing I left that vent cap on and it died when it did because the next part is also my error.

I had just about 8 miles to go to the dock and I put the engine at 4800 rpm and cruised at about 30mph there. Everything was going great so I put it at 5200 rpm. It ran fine for a few minutes and died. I tried to prime it to restart and the bulb would not pressurize. I opened the gas cap and another woosh of air rushed in. Pumped the bulb some more and got some pressure, engine restarted quickly no problem but died after about 5 minutes. Rinse repeat. 

By now you probably know what's going on especially if you live in the southeast - I did not get gas because where I usually get non-ethanol had a line down the street and I was wrong on my fuel range by about 10 miles. 

So, where do we stand now? To me, I was able to duplicate my results from last Friday which is everything ran mostly fine with the engine trimmed in. I think this was the primary issue - before trimming the engine in I was never able to run for more than a couple of miles before it died. I don't think that's all there is to the story, but if you subtract my errors today the engine did not die from fuel starvation outside of the vent being plugged and ... running out of gas. Two 30 minute runs without issue is a big improvement.

The boat is currently in the shop, they know all of the details and I'll be hearing from them early next week. That said, whatever they find I will try Ankona's advice which is removing the fuel demand valve. 

At this point I think the issue can be put to bed until I get I have it totally solved.


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## POCtied (Oct 19, 2016)

I hear about these ethanol gas issues regularly, but have never experienced it personally and never filled with anything but regular pump ethanol piss since new. Is this just dumb luck on my part? I thought this was just an issue with older engines switching to ethanol additive fuel


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

This isn't an ethanol issue, ethanol has never been in this motor.

Likely this is a combination of two types of ventilation issues. First is the prop issue, a New Orleans pothole added a sizable dent into the prop and that is creating a ventilation issue for the impeller. The second is a gas line/ventilation issue. If you read my last post I mention that there was a large amount of pressure in the tank even after the vent was fully opened. I am having that checked right now.

Whatever the case is, it is most certainly not ethanol related.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

gibby said:


> This isn't an ethanol issue, ethanol has never been in this motor.
> 
> Likely this is a combination of two types of ventilation issues. First is the prop issue, a New Orleans pothole added a sizable dent into the prop and that is creating a ventilation issue for the impeller. The second is a gas line/ventilation issue. If you read my last post I mention that there was a large amount of pressure in the tank even after the vent was fully opened. I am having that checked right now.
> 
> Whatever the case is, it is most certainly not ethanol related.


I did read somewhere that the Tohatsu engines might need an electric fuel pickup system as it does require a lot of fuel in certain scenarios. The other thing might be fuel hose diameter.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> I did read somewhere that the Tohatsu engines might need an electric fuel pickup system as it does require a lot of fuel in certain scenarios. The other thing might be fuel hose diameter.


Yeah, I want to be 100% on the gas vent before going to that. After that I could look into the electric pickup or I could do the Ankona recommendation of removing the fuel demand valve.

Any thoughts on removing that piece, is there any other protection to prevent over-pressurization if the demand valve is removed?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

gibby said:


> Yeah, I want to be 100% on the gas vent before going to that. After that I could look into the electric pickup or I could do the Ankona recommendation of removing the fuel demand valve.
> 
> Any thoughts on removing that piece, is there any other protection to prevent over-pressurization if the demand valve is removed?


Sucks to hear because it could be a lot of things...sucks even worse the summer is about to be in full swing. 

You could just replace the whole vent. This is my understanding from my research on the Tohatsu 60 before I bought it. Tohatsu's fuel system requires are larger voltage battery to suck gas in when starting because a lot of energy is needed to bring gas to the motor. That's why they recommend a larger starter battery. Some might say its a CYA things and they are probably right. With that said, you're doing the right thing. If the vent is faulty, the pick up is faulty, there is a small hole in the fuel line, the fuel line is too small, etc., the motor can't suck enough gas and you might get bubbles like you are saying. There is an anit-siphon valve in most tanks which restricts flow too. You can replace that with an electric fuel supply pump to send more fuel. 

Thanks for all the updates.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

This is crazy. WTF is going on here?


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> This is crazy. WTF is going on here?


What's crazy? Boat is in the shop, they are looking at specific things, and we are talking about other things to try.


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## glennwilson (Aug 21, 2010)

I ran my boat with a 50hp tohatsu for 4years. I had it on a Jack plate. I have ran it at length at various levels even as high as the jack plate would go, wide open 5400rpms and it never shut down on me. I do not think it has anything to do with the height or trim of motor. It was never on a tank with an electric fuel pump either.
I have had outboards die on me as you say and it was the primer bulb two different times, and the vent on the fuel tank the other time. I believe your problem is there. I think as you increase your rpm to full you increase the pull through the fuel system which is overpassing the vent or the bulb is faulty. Both are cheap easy replacements.
Good luck chasing it down, intermittent problems are the worst.


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

Updating this thread and marking it as solved. I got the boat back from the shop a couple of days ago and I had them do the following:


Install new stainless steel prop
Check the tank vent for clogs/issues
Check all fuel fittings
Perform 20hr maintenance

The response from the shop was that everything on the boat looked fine and they could find no issues with the vent or any connections.

Today was the first day it was safe to take the boat out, and I did. I was able to get it to sputter on the way out after a 15-minute run. When it did, I killed the engine and started doing some light inspection. The vent was open, the bulb primed easily, but when I opened the gas cap again there was a big pull of air into the tank.

I remembered that Erin from Ankona told me the cap had a pressure release valve so I looked at it to try and figure it out and accidentally poked a hole in it with my knife.

I finished my 9 mile run with no more issues... which was a first. Normally after it stalled once it would get worse and worse. So I was optimistic as I got to my area and started to search for clean water.

After a few hours of getting beat up by the wind, I went back to the launch for what would be an 11-mile run. When I could (it was extremely windy) I kept the motor sustained at 5800-6k rpm with zero issues. I ran the entire 11 miles with zero issues, only getting below 3k once to dry my glasses. 

Assessing this situation there are only 3 new things:


New prop (it's awesome, hole shot is amazing).
Poked hole in the gas cap release vent.
Left the lid to the release vent up when I did my long runs.

Only other note, after poking that hole and leaving the lid up, I would still open the gas cap after every small run and there was way less air being sucked into the tank if any at all. I don't know if this is it, but I think we can safely say if there are any other issues like this it is due to not enough fuel getting to the motor rather than air bubbles or anything like that. This makes it easy because I have two obvious options to fix that.

Thanks everyone for your help, this has been maddening but I think I'm at the very near end of this.


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

gibby said:


> Updating this thread and marking it as solved. I got the boat back from the shop a couple of days ago and I had them do the following:
> 
> 
> Install new stainless steel prop
> ...


I hate to say it , so I won’t🤪


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

jonterr said:


> I hate to say it , so I won’t🤪


So
You fixed it by accidentally cutting a hole in the cap👀?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

jonterr said:


> So
> You fixed it by accidentally cutting a hole in the cap👀?


You’re killin’ me Smalls!


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## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

Still sounds like the vent is not doing it’s job. Glad ur back on the water. Thx for sharing this. 👍🏻


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

georgiadrifter said:


> Still sounds like the vent is not doing it’s job. Glad ur back on the water. Thx for sharing this. 👍🏻


Bingo


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## gibby (May 15, 2020)

jonterr said:


> So
> You fixed it by accidentally cutting a hole in the cap👀?


Hey, I thought you were holding yourself back. 

I don't know if that specifically is what did it, the engine was running much better before that happened. I think, though, the issue is 100% related to ventilation issues causing a pressure issue in the tank. So whether it was fully solved by making a better airflow by poking a slightly larger hole in the screen of the cap vent or not, it is irrelevant because it is running better and because the problem is now understood - the tank is not being ventilated properly. 

That cuts out the rabbit hole of trying to diagnose this issue and gives me a perfectly clear vision on what to tackle to fully solve the problem.

I should add to yesterday's post - I went through some open water with 20kt winds yesterday and the boat made it through fine. Not something I'd ever suggest anyone doing, but it gave me a lot of confidence heading into the summer where storms pop up out of nowhere.


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## Fairweather (Aug 17, 2020)

I don't think this has been mentioned yet... Apologies if it is redundant. If the hose from the tank to the vent has a dip in it, it's possible for fuel to slosh out of the tank and into the vent hose, then collecting in the dip. When that happens, it won't vent because the collected fuel blocks the airway. You want to be sure fuel can drain back out of the hose and into the tank.


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## Ghstillwell (Jul 11, 2019)

I just had very similar issues with my brand new 2021 BT Mosquito 60HP Suzuki and at hour 17 a Suzuki tech figured out there was a simple plug that is supposed to be removed at install they never removed. It was plugging a drain valve that helped balance the fuel system. Once they removed the plug, ( rigging error on Bt's part ) I never had another issue. You might look into it because the issue sounds identical. They said there is a huge red tab on it at delivery that says remove plug before running and a lot of installers get in a hurry and grab the tab, rip it off thinking the plug came with it but it actually didn't. This line come off the carburetor and acts like a drain or air vent, when plugged it causes issues after warm up. Mine was stalling at after 1 to 2 hours of run time, every time.


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## SteveZissou (Apr 27, 2017)

In the beginning: “it’s not working and I don’t know why”

now: “ it’s working and I don’t know why”


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

SteveZissou said:


> In the beginning: “it’s not working and I don’t know why”
> 
> now: “ it’s working and I don’t know why”


Solved???


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I’m sticking with the fuel vent is still not functioning 100% and the additional hole in the gas cap gave it just enough venting to be able to draw fuel.


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## SteveZissou (Apr 27, 2017)

Waste of time and money to throw parts at a problem before a methodical troubleshooting approach. Also if you change a bunch of parts all at once you’ll never know the root cause of your issue

best suggestion was to run it off a good portable tank.

at any rate, glad to hear you have it solved and can start fishing again.


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m sticking with the fuel vent is still not functioning 100% and the additional hole in the gas cap gave it just enough venting to be able to draw fuel.


That’s my opinion also
Only explanation


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