# What's wrong with me (BVK 9 wt)?



## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

So I bought a BVK 9 weight rod about a month ago.  It's the first rod I have ever bought without casting beforehand, but with all the great reviews and the price I thought I would take a chance and buy it sight unseen.  

I have fly fished in the salt almost exclusively for 10 years now, and do 90% of my fishing with either a 10 year old St. Croix Legend Ultra 8 wt. (my first fly rod) or a 7 weight that I built on a Batson RX8 blank.  I've done an awful lot of fly casting, just not on many different rods, so I'm not familiar with differences in makes of rods.  In other words, I'm not really a gear junkie.

So my problem is this... I have fished the BVK twice now with a Royal Wulff Bermuda Triangle line (same line that I fish on the Legend Ultra and my 10 wt. Winston), and just cannot seem to connect with it. My casts are shorter and I cannot carry nearly as much line as I can on my other 3 rods.  I know everyone has a different casting stroke which plays into rod preferences, but I really want to like this rod.

Here's the question - should I keep trying to connect with the rod and see if it grows on me, or just chalk it up to the fact that the rod doesn't suit me for whatever reason?  Right now, I am leaning toward selling the BVK and building another rod on a Batson blank, but DAMN I want to love this rod!
Pete


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## fishnride883 (Mar 20, 2012)

I had a bvk 9wt its not bad, I was using SA tropical bonefish and it casted well (above 70* chilly days were tough) I am not familiar with tje bermuda triangle but try pairing it with a different line, SAredfish taper would be a start.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

You probably just need to find the right line for the rod blank.

I have an 8 wt ultra legend as well and it's a fast rod. After purchasing a G loomis 8wt cross current and casting two different 8wt lines I previously used on the ultra legend I was ready to get rid of the new rod. It felt like a wet noodle and my distance was horrible.

As it turned out a 7 wt cortland bonefish line was the perfect fit for the new Loomis 8wt. That and slowing my casting stroke down a bit to let the rod load more.

It sounds like it's a combo of a slower blank than you are used to, as well as the line possibly not being true to the advertised 9wt. For distance try and find a line taper with a longer body. Also look to see the grain weight for your current line in comparison to some of the other 9wt lines from different manufacturers. The head weight of a 9wt line with one company isn't equal the the head weight of 9 weight from a different company. Also not equal from model to model ex: redfish to bonefish, saltwater ........


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## Virnut (Nov 8, 2012)

I have dealt with this same problem from different model rods of the same manufacturer.
I chalk it up to simply getting used to the rods action/breaking it in. 
I know it sounds dumb but rods actually need to be broken in.
(again this is my personal experience)
With that said I got first dibs on the rod when you decide to sell


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## kylepyro (Oct 27, 2010)

I have a wulff ambush on my 7wt and it casts fine. One point is that I have a 6wt on my 7wt rod. Not really sure how the ambush taper stacks up against the btt.

Biggest adjustment I have to make is to slow everything WAY down. My 6wt rod is a glx and my 8wt is an XI 2, both much faster rods imo. Next time your out with it, just put 40 feet of line in the air and keep it there. Notice how soft the tip of the bvk is? Now just slow your whole pace down and see if that doesnt work better. 

Thats what worked for me, but I will be the first to admit, I'm not the worlds best caster.


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## KnotHome (Jul 21, 2009)

I was just talking to a friend this evening that mentioned loving his Axioms, but that he never could get the feel of a BVK. He felt it was his stroke and that it was best complimented by the Axiom.


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## narwhal (Jul 4, 2012)

The answer may be a less aggressive taper. You are likely overpowering the rod with teh triangle taper. 

Try another line. In freshwater, BVKs like lines that are true to weight instead of 1/2 a line wt heavy.

As you are admittedly not a gear junky, try a redfish line first (still has an aggressive taper but isn't much heavier) then try an allround saltwater taper, then a bonefish line.

narwhal


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## Salty_South (Feb 25, 2009)

I have several BVK rods and I find the airflo lines to be a great match. My 7wt has the airflo ridge tropical bonefish/redfish line. And my 10wt BVK has airflo ridge clear tip line and it casts nicely too.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Many of the Cortland lines run true to their weight.


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## Pmn000 (Aug 24, 2011)

> The answer may be a less aggressive taper.  You are likely overpowering the rod with teh triangle taper.
> 
> Try another line.  In freshwater, BVKs like lines that are true to weight instead of 1/2 a line wt heavy.
> 
> ...


This is the truth. The triangle tapers run at least a half a weight heavy and possibly a full weight. They are meant to load the rod fast for less false casting. However, if you are used to casting matched lines the triangle taper will feel sloppy. 

Let me put it this way. On an nrx with an SA saltwater textured line I can cast to the backing. With the wulff, I can't cast anywhere near that far. The line is meant for quick casts to about 40ft, not for carrying line in the air. 

I would disagree a bit with using a redfish line, I feel those are a bit too heavy. Try an all around saltwater line and I think you would be happy.

A lot of these new lines are heavier to to make the user feel like a better caster by overloading the rod and making it "easier" to cast. In my opinion this does not let you feel what the rod can really do.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I cast my 9wt BVK with the Royal Wulf triangle taper perfectly fine. 
My buddy Dan Decibel fell inlove with it when he casted it. It's like a rocket. It shoots the line out line a gun. Get the feel for the rod. That line is the best line I've tried on it so far. I first had the Airflo Ridgeline, then Sharkskin. But once I put the Bermuda Triangle on there it's awesome. But, I'm shooting the 25' taper short taper. Not the 30' that I shoot on my 8wt BVK.


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## narwhal (Jul 4, 2012)

Shooting the line is different from casting and aerializing the line. If the OP is trying to aerialize 40-50ft og triangle taper with the BVK it will not stand up to that added grains. 

As LLS alluded to, he can cast the whole line with a salt allrounder taper which is not as aggressive as a triangle taper (and a redfish- I only added that one in there as they aren;t as heavy as teh triangle I feel and also because they don;t go to that super skinny running line quite as quick, but they are heavier than the standard wt lines)

It also depends on what you are trying to do. A redfish line and a triangle taper are made for quick casts up to 50ft or so, really in the 20-50ft range. They are not made for "casting". Long belly lines that transfer power to the aerialized line will allow you to throw consistent long laser tight loops. However they are not that great for actual fishing.

This is why so may Bahams lodges such as Andros South really likes the short tapers. They want short accurate quick casts. Not 70-90ft delicate casts. But casting at teh pond or on the lawn, noone wants to cast 45ft. They want to watch pretty loops.

Pretty loops need the right line. Fishing casts sometimes need a different line.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

And that could be the difference between the guys who actually catch the fish, and the guys who don't. I remember when I used to go to the park with a friend and cast our whole fly lines out. (using royal wulff triangle tapers on our 8wt bvks). But there's no need for that. I can consistently cast out as far as I can ever need to. 

We can shoot just about all the line off of my 9wt BVK with the 25' short taper Bermuda triangle line, while wading. I choose to shoot line out fast because I like to get the fly infront of a fish as quick as possible. The less time I give them to change course, or stop what they're doing the better off I am at getting an eat. I like the bermuda triangle line cause I can shoot off a 50 foot cast in 2 false casts if I need to with ease. 
I know I have video of us casting my 9wt somewhere on my mac. I'll look for it.


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

Thanks for all the input, guys. But I really don't think it's the fly line. I have the same line on my 8 weight St. Croix and my 10 weight Winston, and it is my favorite line to cast on both of those rods. I fish 75 % of the time with the 8 weight, and have fished many different lines on it over the years. I have never had trouble carrying the Triangle taper. Fished it today, in fact, to spooky clear water reds with no issues (caught 7 if anyone is interested). I'm thinking it's my casting stroke. I am going to try slowing down as suggested, since the rod does seem to have a much softer tip than I am used to.


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## Semper Fly (Jun 11, 2011)

Question. So if I am looking to put Bermuda Short Triangle Taper or Bermuda Triangle Taper on my BVK 9wt I should 1: go with 8wt line and 2: go for the quick shot rather than the long cast. Am I understanding the general consensus ?


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## kylepyro (Oct 27, 2010)

I dont know if there is agreement about underlining, but I think there is on not trying false cast too much of this line. Get 40 feet in the air and let it go, particularly with the bvk.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

What he said. Don't try to carry so much line in the air, for the line will shoot out like a rocket with 2 false casts. It's all in the hauling. 

I can try shooting some 8wt triangle taper on my 9wt bvk. I still swap reels from my 8wt nd 9wt bvk's and give it a shot, but I think that's not necessary. I love the way the 9wt bermuda shoots out of my 9wt bvk.


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

Well, I have done some playing around with different combos of rods and lines, and even built a new 8 weight on a Batson blank since my original post. I have decided that it comes down to the soft tip of the BVK. The Batson and St. Croix blanks that I normally fish are really fast rods, and as a result I have an aggressive casting stroke.  Slowing my stroke down makes a huge difference on the BVK.  I normally only false cast 2 or 3 times, and with the BVK I would start my forward cast when I felt the tip begin to load (which is fine on a really fast rod, as the load is distributed throught the rod blank).  But the BVK has such a soft tip that I had to slow down to wait for the rod to load more into the blank, rather than begin my forward stroke when the tip began to load.

This difference became really apparent to me after comparing the BVK with the 8 weight I just built.  I did a side by side comparison using the same reel and line.  The Batson fit my casting stroke (it is labeled as an Extra Fast blank) and could throw almost the whole line with minimal false casting.  Using the same stroke on the BVK resulted in a tangled heap of fly line, but slowing down laid out the line nicely.  Just a different feel than I am used to.

Anyway, I am up in the air as to whether to keep the rod or sell it and build a 9 weight.

Pete


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I cast my 9wt BVK fast.


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## kylepyro (Oct 27, 2010)

> This difference became really apparent to me after comparing the BVK with the 8 weight I just built.  I did a side by side comparison using the same reel and line.  The Batson fit my casting stroke (it is labeled as an Extra Fast blank) and could throw almost the whole line with minimal false casting.  Using the same stroke on the BVK resulted in a tangled heap of fly line, but slowing down laid out the line nicely.  Just a different feel than I am used to.
> 
> Anyway, I am up in the air as to whether to keep the rod or sell it and build a 9 weight.
> 
> Pete



Ahhh - cool.  Different is not bad - just different.  As long as you understand that rod and are willing to let a bvk be a bvk it can still be a great tool and fun to fish.  It will do some interesting things.  My wife is an awesome roll caster and can roll cast the entire head of her BTT and shoot another 15 feet on top of that when she's got her casting grove working.  So - she can literally roll cast to a tailing fish 45 - 50 feet out with no false cast.  She can't quite deliver it on target yet but its just a matter of practice.  I think that soft tip really enables that cast for her.

I cast her bvk and then pick up my XI2.  It always takes me a bit to adjust between the two, so I understand how you may not want to go thru that.

Just as an aside, there is an interesting discussion of fly casting going on over here http://flyfishingarkansasandmissouri.yuku.com/topic/8466/back-cast-mechanics#.UPXt2Sf7Kz4  

John Wilson and Davy Wotton (serious trout guys and great casters in AR) are discussing casting mechanics, rod behavior, with a poster named silvercreek who has framed fly casting in mathematics/physics.  The reason its relevant here is silvercreek provides a reasoned argument for the value of the _*line loading the rod tip*_ in a false cast and its subsequent contribution to the next cast.  (15% for a great caster).  I'm not sure I buy silvercreeks entire argument and I'm pretty sure he's made at least one oversight (a minor one) in the physics but its all illuminating.

I like the BVK in this context because that soft tip exaggerates the tip load and makes it easier to see/feel.  (an opinion)

As an experiment - try this.  Take your "fast rod" and put 40 feet of line in the air and just keep it there.  Put the line on the tip of your index finger and anchor the line in the rest of your fingers.  What you should feel is the rod tip loading because the line is bending the tip.  Now repeat that experiment with the BVK.  I think you'll see that the BVK "signals" that tip loading sooner and that it last longer because of that soft tip.  That loading signal gives you information about when _*then line/rod*_ is in place to start your next cast/haul - which in my limited experience the real turbocharger of line speed.  

Some casting genius will probably point out how this is all a load of hooey.  Its an internet opinion.  Take it for what its worth.    ;D


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