# Handling of fish



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

The best is wet hands and support the fish horizontally, even better if you keep it in tte water or only have it out a couple of seconds. If I’m keeping a redfish for dinner it doesn’t matter but if I plan on releasing a fish healthy minimal handling and wet hands are the only way to go. Fingers in the gills or anywhere around the gill plates is not good for the fish no matter what anyone claims. That’s like having someone sticking their fingers in your esophagus and lungs.


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## ReelBoi (Dec 17, 2020)

I'll just throw this out there... I believe the reason that studies are tough to find on this one is that a lot of the detrimental effects occur post release. So all people can do is guess how many die based on a few controlled scenarios. If you are keeping fish, then it really doesn't matter apart from how humane you want to be I guess. But if you know you are releasing fish, then why not be the least intrusive as possible. I think the studies do agree that the slime is super important for protecting against disease, so that's why the wet hands are important to keep that from coming off. If you think about it, almost always the only reason for actually holding a fish is to take a picture of it or measure it. So just make a personal decision how important that is to you. Personally, I'm fine with taking a pic of the fish in the water and lying about how big it was


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

never use the gill plate to handle a fish.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

ReelBoi said:


> I'll just throw this out there... I believe the reason that studies are tough to find on this one is that a lot of the detrimental effects occur post release. So all people can do is guess how many die based on a few controlled scenarios. If you are keeping fish, then it really doesn't matter apart from how humane you want to be I guess. But if you know you are releasing fish, then why not be the least intrusive as possible. I think the studies do agree that the slime is super important for protecting against disease, so that's why the wet hands are important to keep that from coming off. If you think about it, almost always the only reason for actually holding a fish is to take a picture of it or measure it. So just make a personal decision how important that is to you. Personally, I'm fine with taking a pic of the fish in the water and lying about how big it was


A part of me dies every time I see someone bear hugging a fish and claiming they released it healthy.


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## NickMars (Dec 10, 2021)

"Unpopular Opinion" : I really think its goofy with the snook fishing community with this whole dick measuring thing. Plopping a full grown fish on hot surface to get a measurment and then holding it up for a picture then throwing it off the side of a pier. I dont measure fish unless i keep them. a quick catch and release. maybe a quick picture is good enough for me.


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## Wuggs (Dec 24, 2021)

ReelBoi said:


> I'll just throw this out there... I believe the reason that studies are tough to find on this one is that a lot of the detrimental effects occur post release. So all people can do is guess how many die based on a few controlled scenarios. If you are keeping fish, then it really doesn't matter apart from how humane you want to be I guess. But if you know you are releasing fish, then why not be the least intrusive as possible. I think the studies do agree that the slime is super important for protecting against disease, so that's why the wet hands are important to keep that from coming off. If you think about it, almost always the only reason for actually holding a fish is to take a picture of it or measure it. So just make a personal decision how important that is to you. Personally, I'm fine with taking a pic of the fish in the water and lying about how big it was


I recall studies from years ago on the detrimental effects of wiping slime off fish but still searching for studies showing vertical/ bill cover holds are detrimental. All I’ve found is conjecture.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

I think BTT is compiling some compelling data on bonefish release/mortality. They now have some very specific recommendations on handling. Back in the day, we would "hero shot" tarpon by literally hoisting them to chin level by the jaw and gill cover. Their guts would all slide down and they would crap all over the boat many times. That is enough data for me... never again. When I use a dehooker or pliers and remove the hook/fly and never touch the fish, they swim away in better shape. I know that is pretty extreme, but they're worth my attention. In sharky waters, I have actually put fish in a livewell for a few minutes before release. 

Long answer, but try the BTT website for science. Found it:









Educational Program | Bonefish & Tarpon Trust


Education is the best tool to engage people of all ages in conserving our coastal habitats and recreational fisheries. Conservation is important to all




www.bonefishtarpontrust.org


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

mwolaver said:


> I think BTT is compiling some compelling data on bonefish release/mortality. They now have some very specific recommendations on handling. Back in the day, we would "hero shot" tarpon by literally hoisting them to chin level by the jaw and gill cover. Their guts would all slide down and they would crap all over the boat many times. That is enough data for me... never again. When I use a dehooker or pliers and remove the hook/fly and never touch the fish, they swim away in better shape. I know that is pretty extreme, but they're worth my attention. In sharky waters, I have actually put fish in a livewell for a few minutes before release.
> 
> Long answer, but try the BTT website for science.


People still lip gaff and hold them up like googans


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Wuggs said:


> Lots of opinions on fish handling, especially vertical holds and hands in the gills, throughout the fishing world. First noticed it in the musky world up north but I see comments on this site and numerous others frequently. I've researched the topic quite extensively but haven't found any definitive science on mortality associated with vertical holds or holds with hands inside the gill cover. Best I've found is conjecture that "it just makes sense that it's harmful." Does anyone have links to actual scientific studies that prove a cause and effect between vertical holds or gill cover holds and fish mortality? Note--please be civil, I'm not looking for a fight. Just want to have some facts so I can handle fish safely. Thanks.


You will never find a definitive answer. Why? Because people that do studies need to keep the money coming in. More studies. My suggestion is treat them how you would like to be treated. Wet hands, not held from the jaw, especially large fish. Try not to perform an operation removing a hook. Cut it. Better to return them to the water quickly then playing doctor with the hook. And I don’t throw them back in. I set them back in.


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## TravHale (May 17, 2019)

Gaff in the guts, unhook, and sling it overboard.. that way you avoid getting any slim on you. Remember, it's ok if you kill it as long as you let it go.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm pretty sure if you post a picture of the fish on Instagram it is guaranteed to live. Even if you have to keep it out of the water a while to get the right angle and lighting all Instagram fish live.


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## Wuggs (Dec 24, 2021)

mwolaver said:


> I think BTT is compiling some compelling data on bonefish release/mortality. They now have some very specific recommendations on handling. Back in the day, we would "hero shot" tarpon by literally hoisting them to chin level by the jaw and gill cover. Their guts would all slide down and they would crap all over the boat many times. That is enough data for me... never again. When I use a dehooker or pliers and remove the hook/fly and never touch the fish, they swim away in better shape. I know that is pretty extreme, but they're worth my attention. In sharky waters, I have actually put fish in a livewell for a few minutes before release.
> 
> Long answer, but try the BTT website for science. Found it:
> 
> ...


Thanks, I’ll check it out.


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## ReelBoi (Dec 17, 2020)

Wuggs said:


> I recall studies from years ago on the detrimental effects of wiping slime off fish but still searching for studies showing vertical/ bill cover holds are detrimental. All I’ve found is conjecture.








Vertical Holds And Time-out-of-water: Critical Issues in the Handling and Release of Trophy-sized Esox by Michael Butler – THE NEXT BITE TV







thenextbite.com





This one is kind of old, but might be a good starting point for you.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Here we go, people are going to start posting statistics like they are gospel. Don’t forget where stats got us the past three years…
It’s simple, minimal handling with wet hands and keep them in the water as much as possible.


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## ReelBoi (Dec 17, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> People still lip gaff and hold them up like googans
> 
> View attachment 220487


This is funny because that picture stinks. Would have been much better laying in the water anyways and wouldn't have needed to stab the fish.



Smackdaddy53 said:


> Here we go, people are going to start posting statistics like they are gospel. Don’t forget where stats got us the past three years…
> It’s simple, minimal handling with wet hands and keep them in the water as much as possible.


Agreed, but the guy is specifically asking for science


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

ReelBoi said:


> This is funny because that picture stinks. Would have been much better laying in the water anyways and wouldn't have needed to stab the fish.
> 
> 
> Agreed, but the guy is specifically asking for science


I wasn’t razzing you just making a general statement of what this thread will morph into. There are always charts and graphs and no one cares to look at them. Most are BS, some are legitimate. 
I have a bunch of photos I have collected of people posting photos mishandling fish. I get a few every week. Holding the fish horizontally with both hands but left the boga and float hanging from the lower jaw…fingers in gills…bear hugging the slime off the fish…boga grip jaws through the lip skin…


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## Wuggs (Dec 24, 2021)

ReelBoi said:


> Vertical Holds And Time-out-of-water: Critical Issues in the Handling and Release of Trophy-sized Esox by Michael Butler – THE NEXT BITE TV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen that one previously. Not a scientific study but an opinion poll of well known fishermen and biologi


ReelBoi said:


> Vertical Holds And Time-out-of-water: Critical Issues in the Handling and Release of Trophy-sized Esox by Michael Butler – THE NEXT BITE TV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I've seen that article and several like it in the past. I respect the fishermen and biologists quoted and am inclined to think they're probably correct that vertical holds increase the chance of fish injury but it's not a scientific study. The article even mentions that there hadn't been any studies conducted as of the article's publication. I was hoping there had been recent studies to be referenced.

Interestingly, that article focuses on muskies and the opinions expressed in the article led most of the musky websites/magazines to stop showing any photos that were vertical hold yet they continue to show photos of anglers holding big muskies with one hand inside the gill cover and the other hand just forward of the anal opening and pushing the fish's guts up against its spine. That can't be good either. For that matter, neither is hooking them and fighting them but there's a happy medium where we can enjoy fishing, including a photo of our trophy catches, without undue harm to the fish. 

Thanks to everyone who responded. I know we all want to do what's best for the fish and, indirectly, our future fishing.


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## TravHale (May 17, 2019)

What about ripping hooks through a fish's face/scull/eye balls, is that bad? Should we stop doing that?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TravHale said:


> What about ripping hooks through a fish's face/scull/eye balls, is that bad? Should we stop doing that?


Are you going to be that guy?


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## TravHale (May 17, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Are you going to be that guy?


Who?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TravHale said:


> Who?


You know


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

TravHale said:


> What about ripping hooks through a fish's face/scull/eye balls, is that bad? Should we stop doing that?


Jesus dude...quit fishing now if that's how you feel. Chess, crochet, or all these online/ virtual games are more in line with your feelings..."pu*^y


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Well I’ll be darned, I did an under 2 minute search and cannot find one single scientific paper about the vertical fish/lip hold as the OP noted.

HOWEVER, I think the paucity of readily found articles is because what we call “lip” is explained anatomically, etc. In other words do we have a Microskiff board ichthyologist here? Lol. Not kidding either. I don’t think we’re using ichthyologist vernacular. Exhibit A below, get your hyoid bone on



https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233703620_Osteological_Development_of_the_Snook_Centropomus_Undecimalis_Teleostei_Centropomidae


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## TravHale (May 17, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You know





SS06 said:


> Jesus dude...quit fishing now if that's how you feel. Chess, crochet, or all these online/ virtual games are more in line with your feelings..."pu*^y


I think a little tongue in cheek sarcasm flew directly over y’alls heads. Context clues should have clued you in.


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

Megalops said:


> Well I’ll be darned, I did an under 2 minute search and cannot find one single scientific paper about the vertical fish/lip hold as the OP noted.
> 
> HOWEVER, I think the paucity of readily found articles is because what we call “lip” is explained anatomically, etc. In other words do we have a Microskiff board ichthyologist here? Lol. Not kidding either. I don’t think we’re using ichthyologist vernacular. Exhibit A below, get your hyoid bone on
> 
> ...


Omg, this is too much .. dammit man just let the fuckin fish go!!!!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TravHale said:


> I think a little tongue in cheek sarcasm flew directly over y’alls heads. Context clues should have clued you in.


I know nothing about sarcasm or humor…


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## Outearly (Oct 20, 2015)

There’s a podcast- The Speckled Truth- that focuses on speckled trout.

Episode 17 -The Truth Behind Catch and Release- is in interesting interview of a couple of biologists and a guide discussing fish handling and mortality.

They used implanted transmitters to track the fish after catching and a variety of handling techniques.

Their conclusions were surprising to me.

First, they handled the fish enough to insert a transmitter. They took a towel and wiped all of the slime off some fish. They caught them with a variety of lures and hooks.

Their conclusion (remember, this is just speckled trout) was that the only real fish killer was deep hooking. The fish are hardy.

It’s an interesting listen.


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## BK922 (Jan 24, 2016)

If you wanna take a deep dive into blood chemistry and handling effects etc. this is the study find in tarpon that helped contribute to the >40 inch stays in the water rule. Evaluating Lethal and Sub-Lethal Effects of Catch-and-Release Angling in Florida's Central Gulf Coast Recreational Atlantic Tarpon (Megalops atlanticus) Fishery


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## VA-Gheenoe (4 mo ago)

Too many factors to account for actual mortality based on human action. Up here the kayak crowd loves ultralight tackle and fighting fish for extended periods of time and then flopping reds and specks in the footwell while they fumble for their cameras and go pro remotes. By the time the fish get back in the water it's anyone's guess whether they survive or not. When the googans found out about Silver Kings on the ESVA from instagram and tiktok the locals were chunking weights at them when they were dragging them out of the water for photo ops. Since VDGIF still refuses to really declare them a gamefish in VA there's no education on proper handling of them. It puts the fishery at risk and is breeding a lot of ignorance and poor behavior in exchange for likes on social media. The guys I fly fish with are a wholly different breed than the traditional tackle guys I fish with. Not sure if it is like that in florida and the gulf coast but I'd much rather be on the water with the first than the later.


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## Wuggs (Dec 24, 2021)

Outearly said:


> There’s a podcast- The Speckled Truth- that focuses on speckled trout.
> 
> Episode 17 -The Truth Behind Catch and Release- is in interesting interview of a couple of biologists and a guide discussing fish handling and mortality.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that, it's exactly what I was looking for. Actual science. And it was very interesting. They actually recommend using a boga grip as long as it's used properly. Vertical holds while taking a photo are OK but limit the time held vertically. Live release tournaments have a 70 something % survival rate which seems pretty low to me but the panel seemed pleased with that number. I guess compared to a kill tournament's 0% rate a survival rate in the 70s is pretty good. Bottom line on fish survival for recreational fishing of speckled seatrout is deep hooking is the biggest mortality factor and the fish can survive a lot of other factors. Thanks again.


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## Wuggs (Dec 24, 2021)

BK922 said:


> If you wanna take a deep dive into blood chemistry and handling effects etc. this is the study find in tarpon that helped contribute to the >40 inch stays in the water rule. Evaluating Lethal and Sub-Lethal Effects of Catch-and-Release Angling in Florida's Central Gulf Coast Recreational Atlantic Tarpon (Megalops atlanticus) Fishery


Thanks, dry reading but interesting anyway.


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## on_the_fly_ (Oct 8, 2021)

I just hope everyone here knows better than to do this.... And this fish had to be "released" after this picture, as all reds over 27" are here in NC. Just for a chance at a $50 Hardee's gift card, sheesh.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

on_the_fly_ said:


> I just hope everyone here knows better than to do this.... And this fish had to be "released" after this picture, as all reds over 27" are here in NC. Just for a chance at a $50 Hardee's gift card, sheesh.
> 
> View attachment 220587


Googans gonna googan


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## Fliesbynight (Mar 23, 2020)

I also like the folks in my neck of the woods that keep illegal fish or mistreat the ones they release because "the commercial fishing boats kill everything anyway". And "It's only one fish! When I was a kid we needed a garbage can to get them home." Yeah. "It's only one fish", said 60,000 fisherman.

Makes my blood boil.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

ReelBoi said:


> This is funny because that picture stinks. Would have been much better laying in the water anyways and wouldn't have needed to stab the fish.
> 
> 
> Agreed, but the guy is specifically asking for science


Science assists people in making informative decisions. I don’t buy the paranoia that claims that an organization such as BTT (BTT was not sited in the statement, it was “people “) would purposely withhold valuable information in order to “ keep the money coming in”!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

The Fin said:


> Science assists people in making informative decisions. I don’t buy the paranoia that claims that an organization such as BTT would purposely withhold valuable information in order to “ keep the money coming in”!


Even if the science is mostly propaganda to fit an agenda right Finnegan?
Common sense wins every time. What’s the best way to handle a fish you plan on releasing healthy? Handle with wet hands, fingers out of the gills, don’t hang by lip gripping devices, don’t jab lip gripping jaws through the mouth skin, don’t gaff fish, keep them in the water as much as possible, don’t run rope through their jaw and dangle in the air…the list could go on but there is no reason to.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Even if the science is mostly propaganda to fit an agenda right Finnegan?
> Common sense wins every time. What’s the best way to handle a fish you plan on releasing healthy? Handle with wet hands, fingers out of the gills, don’t hang by lip gripping devices, don’t jab lip gripping jaws through the mouth skin, don’t gaff fish, keep them in the water as much as possible, don’t run rope through their jaw and dangle in the air…the list could go on but there is no reason to.


I didn’t realize that you fished!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

The Fin said:


> I didn’t realize that you fished!


* edited to be nicer…

I do when I’m not working. How about you shut your trap and worry about getting your next booster.


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## James34 (3 mo ago)

Smh


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## skinny_fishing (Aug 30, 2021)

The Fin said:


> Science assists people in making informative decisions.


Depends on who the scientist is working for lol

These days you would think most anglers have common sense when it comes to handling fish but apparently not. My guess is most of them just don't give a shit.


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## SkimmerSkiffer (3 mo ago)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> People still lip gaff and hold them up like googans
> 
> View attachment 220487


Jesus lol


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