# Backing and fly lines



## Crc (May 14, 2018)

How often does everyone change out backing or throw out or change fly lines? Does gel spun last longer then Dacron / micron etc ? I know all the new fly lines have pre made loops— are they as strong as hand tied old nail knots and whipped loops etc.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Lots of questions there. 

I have 25+ year old backing on a reel. I've also seen backing rot even though Dacron shouldn't rot. Gel spun will last longer. 

I love the welded loops and think they are as good as a whipped loop or a nail knot loop. But I test them all.

I change the fly line as often as needed. If it's cracking or losing it's shooting characterizes after it's cleaned I change it. There's nothing as nice as a brand new fly line.


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## Paul Mills (Mar 26, 2018)

Lotta questions in there. Lot of subjectivity. 

I cut of the loops on fly lines and knail knot 5ft of stiff mono of same or similar diameter to the flyline (RIO butt material). It's a whole other topic as to why.

Fly lines degrade. Clean them and dress them with a product made to treat fly lines and they last longer. 

I last used Dacron in the 1990's. Seriously, 16 strand 60lb hollow core braid of any brand lasts. It is also dead easy to splice and make end loops in.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I'll also say I've got reels with braid, reels with wax coated Dacron and reels with both and I still make a Bimini loop but I'm stubborn and have never had it fail.


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## 8w8n8 (Sep 30, 2017)

... go thru the first couple of "Recommended Reading" threads below, _a lot of good posts!
... _whether it's dacron/micron/gel-spun, backing should be inspected "now & then" for nicks/cuts/scrapes. 
... if you're getting spooled from your target species then your backing should be inspected _more than_ "now & then" ...


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

I’ve had Dacron go bad, cost me two brand new fly lines. 
I change my Dacron every 4 or 5 years.
I change out fly lines when the slick coatings come off and won’t dress back on, or lose the stretch.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I like the threadlock hollow core.
I'm comfortable with the factory loops but inspect them regularly. I have seen poorly tied nail knots fail more than factory loops. If I cut the loop I tie an Albright.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I keep all my fly rods/reels out of the sun when not in use. Down stairs on my ground floor that is dry and cool. I've had Dacron on for 25 at least. I'm with Flip I use nail knots sometimes 2 at a time


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## Flyboy (Aug 26, 2019)

My fly lines last me max 6 months at a time, take that with a grain of salt since were fishing around oysters, sometimes casting and stripping over them. I replace them as needed- when core is exposed or when it starts to peel. I'm fishing SA Amp and Cortland, Cortland gets dirty and sticky quickly so I'm cleaning them constantly to maintain shootability. I only have one reel with gel spun on it, haven't noticed any difference between that and the other 12 with Dacron (Micron is just Cortland's branding of Dacron). That being said, I don't splurge for GS. I use and trust the welded loops for the most part, sorry Orvis. I've never had a rear one break, only the front. When the front breaks I replace it with two nail knots and a permanent perfection loop (heavy piece of mono maybe 5in long that I treat as a new permanent loop on the fly line) *note- this only really happens on tarpon sticks for me, where I'm having people put 12+ pounds of pressure consistently on a fish. Smaller set ups, never hand one break


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

backing every few years or if the reel gets dunked. Flyline, at least once a year.


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## grass bass (Aug 29, 2017)

I had a factory loop fail once, when snagged up, but it wasn't at the weld, it was in the loop.

I Bimini Twist and then Surgeon's Loop my backing.


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## Crc (May 14, 2018)

I knew lot o questions in there. I took some time off from daily fly fishing, gotta chip away at changing backing - most all is Orvis Gel Spun And bionic braid 10 year plus. Fly lines I’ll inspect and change out all nail knots and whipped loops. Thanks


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I run hatch premium backing - the lbs is overkill, but it is thin and soft. Gelspun does cut - either into the backing itself, or can burn your fingers. Plus, it is difficult to make a bimini twist. I do a bimini loop on all backing then to a loop in my fly line with a double nail knot. You can find similar brands to hatch for a fraction of the cost - just look at conventional hollow core braid.

But, you don't need to ditch your backing every few years, here is a tip.

A majority of the backing never sees the light of day. After a few years, reverse it. Take it to a shop and ask them to spool it off onto another reel for use (spool to spool). If going onto the same reel it takes a few hops to do it and they just might say to buy new. If you do this yourself, then not an issue, just takes a little time.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Fly lines usually replaced every year. I fish a lot and often around oysters so it just wears out. I inspect my backing and won't change it unless I see and issue. Also, I just use 20 or 30lb Dacron. For 8wt and below, I leave the factory welded loops on the fly line. For 9 and above, I cut the factory welded loop and fold the line back over on itself and secure with 2 or 3 nail knots and a drop of super glue. I've had nail knots pull the cover off of the fly line while fighting big jacks. Maybe it the line was getting old, maybe the knot was cinched so tight it cut the fly line. Whatever the case, I rig my heavy fly gear GT style.
All of my gear is rinsed and dried after every use and stored indoors.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

As an aside, if you are using gel spun (all I use and all I have been using for years even on my small trout outfits) you do not need to tie a bimini to make a loop in it. A true triple surgeons is all you need. Tested on tarpon, tuna, and GTs and never a failure.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> As an aside, if you are using gel spun (all I use and all I have been using for years even on my small trout outfits) you do not need to tie a bimini to make a loop in it. A true triple surgeons is all you need. Tested on tarpon, tuna, and GTs and never a failure.


Yep! This is all I have used for big tarpon for the last five years and haven't had a failure.


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## Crc (May 14, 2018)

Yep, I like gel spun- never an issue. No GTs but plenty of large bonefish, tarpon and albies ( only throw bait at permit ! ) Just wanted to know everyone’s backing schedule esp if 10-15 years is too many! My Everglades did have minor corrosion in the inner ports that I dremelled off and sprayed w crc. All fresh now. Thank you.


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## Clubhunter (Jan 22, 2019)

Paul Mills said:


> Lotta questions in there. Lot of subjectivity.
> 
> I cut of the loops on fly lines and knail knot 5ft of stiff mono of same or similar diameter to the flyline (RIO butt material). It's a whole other topic as to why.
> 
> ...


Paul, In using the HollowCore 60 is it the equivalent of 30 micron in diameter. For some reason I would think the hollow core would lay flat and you could get more backing on your reel. I’m looking to change over.


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## CAPTAlexMoran (May 2, 2020)

jay.bush1434 said:


> For 9 and above, I cut the factory welded loop and fold the line back over on itself and secure with 2 or 3 nail knots and a drop of super glue.


So almost like an albright/nail knot hybrid? I think I'm picturing it right. Sounds pretty intriguing, and definitely a set up I haven't heard of before.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

CAPTAlexMoran said:


> So almost like an albright/nail knot hybrid? I think I'm picturing it right. Sounds pretty intriguing, and definitely a set up I haven't heard of before.


Nothing that complicated although you do have me thinking about it now. It is still a loop to loop connection from line to leader except the loop in the fly line is formed when I fold the end back on itself then secure the loop with 2 to 3 nail knots. It makes a loop that is as strong as the fly line.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

FWIW the outfitter in the Seychelles stopped cutting off factory loops a number of years ago. If their combat setup for GTs is fine with factory loops that's pretty solid evidence that I don't need to cut them off anymore.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

CAPTAlexMoran said:


> So almost like an albright/nail knot hybrid? I think I'm picturing it right. Sounds pretty intriguing, and definitely a set up I haven't heard of before.


This is what jay bush is talking about


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

kjnengr said:


> This is what jay bush is talking about
> 
> View attachment 202305


That is the quick nail knot. This is what I use on fly lines without the factory loop. You want light mono 8 to 12 lb and you use 10 or so turns. You need a paper clip or other thin wire to act as a stiffiner. With stiff lines you can do it without the clip. I just did this on the dock in Key West for a guy on my trip and he caught AJs and tuna, no problems.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Crc said:


> How often does everyone change out backing or throw out or change fly lines? Does gel spun last longer then Dacron / micron etc ? I know all the new fly lines have pre made loops— are they as strong as hand tied old nail knots and whipped loops etc.





Crc said:


> How often does everyone change out backing or throw out or change fly lines? Does gel spun last longer then Dacron / micron etc ? I know all the new fly lines have pre made loops— are they as strong as hand tied old nail knots and whipped loops etc.


Funny backing story! Years ago, a shop owner that I worked for, came into the shop and slammed some reels and lines on the counter and wanted them all spooled up ( more demanding than asking). Fast forward a few days and the owner is fast into his first bonefish of a weeklong trip to Venezuela. As the fish is quickly headed out to sea, the fly line shoots out of the rod (unattached to the backing), following the bone to freedom. Wondering wtf just happened, he noticed a small piece of yellow post-it note floating by his feet. Picking up the note, he reads “F-U!” Well, at first, he said that everyone was getting fired when he returned stateside but after a day or two, he realized that it was pretty funny!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

The Fin said:


> Funny backing story! Years ago, a shop owner that I worked for, came into the shop and slammed some reels and lines on the counter and wanted them all spoiled up ( more demanding than asking). Fast forward a few days and the owner is fast into his first bonefish of a weeklong trip to Venezuela. As the fish is quickly headed out to sea, the fly line shoots out of the rod (unattached to the backing), following the bone to freedom. Wondering wtf just happened, he noticed a small piece of yellow post-it note floating by his feet. Picking up the note, he reads “F-U!” Well, at first, he said that everyone was getting fired when he returned stateside but after a day or two, he realized that it was pretty funny!


If he would have asked them to spool them up instead of spoil them up...


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If he would have asked them to spool them up instead of spoil them





Smackdaddy53 said:


> If he would have asked them to spool them up instead of spoil them up...


Smack, Thanks for the spellcheck! And to think, I didn’t think that you could read!😉


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## CAPTAlexMoran (May 2, 2020)

kjnengr said:


> This is what jay bush is talking about
> 
> View attachment 202305


gotcha! I was having trouble seeing it in my head. Thanks so much.


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

Never had a factory loop fail yet...even on some big 15-20lb jacks


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## mmcintyre44 (12 mo ago)

I have never changed backing. Especially on species specific setups that I know will never go to backing. Change fly lines every 2 years.


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## exit (Aug 22, 2017)

A few years ago I switched to Seaguar Threadlock 60lb for all my reels 9wt and up. RIO has an old video with good instruction of how to do it. I use the factory loop with the Scientific Angler lines I prefer having experienced no failures yet. Easier going through the guides than DIY loop in my experience. SA factory rep told me how much R&D and manufacturing attention to detail goes into the loops. That said I always have a Tie Fast tool in my boat.


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