# Flip Pallot on the state of the Everglades.



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

My name is Flip Pallot and I write in response to having read your Miami Herald piece on python invasion...I was born and raised, as were my parents, in South Dade County. I grew up in the Everglades alongside many of its' pioneers, or Gladesmen. I knew the Glades intimately from Cape Sable to Alligator Alley...from west of Miami to the Gulf of Mexico...I ran airboats, polled canoes, Glade Skiffs, walked and waded the best part of my life through what was the most precious eco-system on the planet. The number of ducks, wading birds, deer, otters, hogs, bear, lions and other fur bearers was astounding and virtually remembered today by very few! The road from Florida City down through the Everglades National Park to the village of Flamingo, at the bottom of the State, was literally infested with deer, swamp rabbits, snakes, frogs, crawfish, gators, hawks, nesting turtles and crows...while the prairies on either side of the road were covered in vegetation which no longer exists. As far as the eye could see there were thousands of wading birds of every species...now all gone, their rookeries abandoned. Ride down that road for the next 100 mornings and you will not see a single deer or swamp rabbit and birds only where a very few puddles of water exist.

It's mostly gone now, never to be restored, which has nothing at all to do with wild hog invasions, python invasions or the "Skunk Ape". Someone should have the "Stones" to look the problem in the eye and call it what it is rather than blame the python and hog for the death of the Everglades! It's like saying
"My eyesight is getting really bad because of my hemorrhoids".

What the loss of every single thing in the Everglades has in common is WATER!....The lack of it when and where needed and the quality of it when it is present, is the only issue. The fact that so much of the Everglades is closed and/or inaccessible to the people who care about it and would blow the whistle on real problems does not help. Focus your attention for a moment on the dollar value of chemicals that the State and municipalities buy each year to kill unwanted aquatic vegetation. EVERY SINGLE DAY, AROUND THE ENTIRE STATE, IN EVERY ROADSIDE DRAINAGE DITCH, EVERY LAKE, EVERY RIVER AND STREAM...VIRTUALLY EVERY BODY OF WATER IN THE ENTIRE STATE is being sprayed with herbicides...basically a generic "Round Up" manufactured by Monsanto. There is little or no science, other than that supplied by the manufacturer, dealing with its effects upon amphibians, larval stages of fish or crustaceans or the life of the chemical in marl, mud or the decomposed plant matter that it creates. All this to eliminate hydrilla, hyacinth, water lettuce and other aquatics deemed noxious by governments. This chemical and others, surely find their way into the aquifer which underlies the State. It also finds its way into rivers, braids and sheet flow that ultimately make their way into the Everglades and other estuaries which are suffering from algae blooms and sea grass die offs and even the death of offshore coral reefs. Follow the dollars back to the providers of these chemicals and you will understand the real nature of the problem. Add to all that, the damage done by agri-interests north of the Everglades, run-off from golf courses, private homes, public streets, effluent releases untreated for anti-biotics and steroids, the flushing of millions of toilets, the selfish manipulation of water levels in the Everglades.......and then, in prospective,......figure how much damage the python has really caused. Hell, we should be nice to the python...he may be the last creature standing in the Everglades as that national treasure slips away!

My God....We're doing this to ourselves!!!!!!!

_- Flip Pallot_


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

So what does it take to finally reverse the REAL problems behind the systemic destruction of one of the most precious ecosystems on earth? 

True: follow the money, but what then? Is it already too late?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

commtrd said:


> So what does it take to finally reverse the REAL problems behind the systemic destruction of one of the most precious ecosystems on earth?
> 
> True: follow the money, but what then? Is it already too late?


Population is out of control.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Perpetual growth, at the expense of societal health and natures wonders, is a bad bargain.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

EdK13 said:


> Perpetual growth, at the expense of societal health and natures wonders, is a bad bargain.


It will be the same all along the coast before long.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Wondering when FL will learn is like looking at your dog and wondering when he'll start doing the dishes.

Ain't gonna happen, won't never happen, we're fucked.


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## Doublehaul (Oct 3, 2015)

Backwater said:


> My name is Flip Pallot and I write in response to having read your Miami Herald piece on python invasion...I was born and raised, as were my parents, in South Dade County. I grew up in the Everglades alongside many of its' pioneers, or Gladesmen. I knew the Glades intimately from Cape Sable to Alligator Alley...from west of Miami to the Gulf of Mexico...I ran airboats, polled canoes, Glade Skiffs, walked and waded the best part of my life through what was the most precious eco-system on the planet. The number of ducks, wading birds, deer, otters, hogs, bear, lions and other fur bearers was astounding and virtually remembered today by very few! The road from Florida City down through the Everglades National Park to the village of Flamingo, at the bottom of the State, was literally infested with deer, swamp rabbits, snakes, frogs, crawfish, gators, hawks, nesting turtles and crows...while the prairies on either side of the road were covered in vegetation which no longer exists. As far as the eye could see there were thousands of wading birds of every species...now all gone, their rookeries abandoned. Ride down that road for the next 100 mornings and you will not see a single deer or swamp rabbit and birds only where a very few puddles of water exist.
> 
> It's mostly gone now, never to be restored, which has nothing at all to do with wild hog invasions, python invasions or the "Skunk Ape". Someone should have the "Stones" to look the problem in the eye and call it what it is rather than blame the python and hog for the death of the Everglades! It's like saying
> "My eyesight is getting really bad because of my hemorrhoids".
> ...


Thank you Sir.


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

I agree with what he says. We are to blame, unrestrained development, agribusiness etc. I’m just not sure things will change, I just don’t believe the general public (or Us for that matter) cares that much.

How many of us are willing to support the sacrifices necessary to make a change. Plastic bans, mileage and size restrictions on vehicles, closing areas to development and forcing density requirements, water consumption restrictions. I don’t even think we can get a plastic bag ban in this state. Much less curbing development....... I know it would be a tough pill for me to swallow.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Completely agree the creatures are not an issue. We could hunt those invasive species to extinction if we choose. Problem is man and what he alters. I don’t have a fix other than ship everyone that moved here after 1980 out. But that isn’t going to happen.


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

So sad. From what I understand basically the whole state south of a line from Daytona to Tampa is basically screwed. Until folks start living more sustainably nothing will change. Those of us that actually care unfortunately probably aren’t enough to make a difference. The damage is done. I hope I’m wrong.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I have always partly blamed that Mickey Mouse place for attracting all the people here.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

People think that stacking houses and condos on every bit of coastal shoreline is a good idea and dumping sewage, chemicals and trash into the waterways and on top of that meat hauling every trip like they live off eating fish isn’t hurting anything because it’s legal...GTFO
It’s a people problem like 99% of everything else. Man could be eradicated and in a hundred years it would be like we never existed. Mother nature can take care of herself but not with greedy humans thinking they were ever part of the equation.
I have people tell me that they meat haul because red tide and dolphins eat more fish than anything...but they forget that recreational fishing by every flatbilled Chadbro within 500 miles of the coast was never supposed to happen. 90mph 25’ bay boats running around with Mercury 450’s hanging off them...seems normal right? Inshore fishing has become a fad. Hopefully they’ll move on to golf again. Fertilize those fairways and greens!


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)




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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

I'm willing to sacrifice a lot - if I thought it would restore FL to what it once was. But how we see FL is quite different from how the rest of the population here sees it - and plans to capitalize on it. They just see potential development, money, and tax revenues. When people actually agree to be responsible - socially, economically, and environmentally - to the extent that they sign it into the law of the land, that raises concerns with regard to liberty, freedom, individual rights... it's a messy world we live in. I think it's supposed to be this way. But it does suck.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Hopefully they’ll move on to golf again. Fertilize those fairways and greens!


I'm a golfer too! lol

I agree. Golf could use the pickup and the inshore areas could use a major thinning out of googans, dbags and youtubers.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Yep, you guys are screwed. You're sitting at 22 million right now. Projected to grow to 26 million in the next 10 years.











Don't feel bad, we screwed in Texas as well. The difference here is we have huge populations in place like the Dallas/Ft Worth Area that are 5-6 hours from the salt.


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

How about forming a coalition of JBC back hoe owners and just start opening the dikes. Get arrested and just plead temporary insanity. Get off on community service and dig another trench. There has to be a few lawyers could use the attention that would offer pro bono assistance. Just imagine 100 JBC’s opening the dikes randomly through out the area. 
Well... just a thought.


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## hunter4626 (Aug 7, 2016)

Lets top this all off with the three(3) new toll roads rammed thru by our sitting senate president Galvano. Rumor has it there is one guy/corp. that owns over 5 million acres in the areas these roads will go thru.The only reason, the roads will provide access for more development. When will these greedy bastards realize we do not have the water to maintain this kind of growth. The areas this would affect are all small rural communities with no need for super highways. Oh yeah-this was heartily endorsed and the bill was signed by super environmentalist DESANTIS


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Chris Morejohn said:


> How about forming a coalition of JBC back hoe owners and just start opening the dikes. Get arrested and just plead temporary insanity. Get off on community service and dig another trench. There has to be a few lawyers could use the attention that would offer pro bono assistance. Just imagine 100 JBC’s opening the dikes randomly through out the area.
> Well... just a thought.


***** are definitely a problem these days...


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

The carpet munchers or the water control structures


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

The glades get a lot of the attention. But from Atlanta south is under duress with water (population) issues.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

You can always hope for a plague to thin the herd. Mother nature will strike back at some point...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Fishshoot said:


> You can always hope for a plague to thin the herd. Mother nature will strike back at some point...


We won’t need a plague if things keep going in this direction.


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## LtShinysides (Dec 27, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> We won’t need a plague if things keep going in this direction.


Agreed. I think overpopulation is a huge problem as well. I don't understand some peoples need to have 6 kids. 
If you want a scary dose of reality, watch the first 10-20 mins of the movie Idiocracy.


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## Boneheaded (Oct 4, 2017)

Having taken that long narrow road since the early 90's, the fishing is certainly nowhere near what it was then as i vidily remember, but its still pretty nice while we have it so lets enjoy, teach our kids right about our resources. take them fishing, and not be afraid to call people out if you think its worth it.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> We won’t need a plague if things keep going in this direction.





LtShinysides said:


> Agreed. I think overpopulation is a huge problem as well. I don't understand some peoples need to have 6 kids.
> If you want a scary dose of reality, watch the first 10-20 mins of the movie Idiocracy.


Something good may actually come from all this transgender, homosexual, ******** crap after all! Natural selection in such an unnatural way... Timer is going so flame on flamers!


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Just raise taxes higher than the N.E. and they will migrate someplace else.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

LtShinysides said:


> Agreed. I think overpopulation is a huge problem as well. I don't understand some peoples need to have 6 kids.
> If you want a scary dose of reality, watch the first 10-20 mins of the movie Idiocracy.


Just watched it AGAIN two nights ago. That’s what it’s coming to. The dumbest have 10 kids and the intelligent seem to think no kids is the way. “We” are being outbred especially by what used to be the minorities. Wait for it...


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Just watched it AGAIN two nights ago. That’s what it’s coming to. The dumbest have 10 kids and the intelligent seem to think no kids is the way. “We” are being outbred especially by what used to be the minorities. Wait for it...


It is happening in western Europe as we speak, look at native born reproduction rates vs immigrant reproduction rates. Their used to be a group called zero population growth....


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

BassFlats said:


> The glades get a lot of the attention. But from Atlanta south is under duress with water (population) issues.


Same problem everywhere. I lived in Montana and Washington for a long time. Montana is struggling with crowding on rivers that keep getting warmer and warmer. Washington has water problem just as bad as Florida. Possible salmon/steelhead extinction with dwindling returns year after year. Water and pollution are problems everywhere there’s people unfortunately.


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Just watched it AGAIN two nights ago. That’s what it’s coming to. The dumbest have 10 kids and the intelligent seem to think no kids is the way. “We” are being outbred especially by what used to be the minorities. Wait for it...



Who is “We”? I would like some clarification?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Who is “We”? I would like some clarification?


We can save that for the off topic section. SJWs will be coming out of the wood work...


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> We can save that for the off topic section. SJWs will be coming out of the wood work...


Really? Off topic or here. I think you should be clear who “We” is....


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Really? Off topic or here. I think you should be clear who “We” is....


No, I really don’t have to do anything. Use your imagination, you are 119 years old according to your profile so you should have a very vivid one.


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Also I have to admit I don’t know what SJWs means either?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Also I have to admit I don’t know what SJWs means either?


"Social justice warrior" (*SJW*) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism, as well as identity politics.


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## Virnut (Nov 8, 2012)

here in NC one could say the lowlands are as developed as a 50s south fla. the worst part is we are not learning from each other. Working on a house today that shamelessly has filled a navigatble creek for their 5bdrm septic. 

its a pain for true outdoorsman to come into understanding its all better without us.


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## Virnut (Nov 8, 2012)

i understand people who fish and hunt tend to be conservative politically but there is no place for a selfless admiror of the natural pulse in a voting booth

all crooks rather bee with god n the geese


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

BassFlats said:


> The carpet munchers or the water control structures


Carpet is out of style. More like brushed Seadek now.


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## Virnut (Nov 8, 2012)

sick of the stabs at libs i dont vote but conservatives -this site- are fooling themselves if they think they are any better keep in mind long before flip or his dad. a red man ran that swamp. we lose track of that maybe we should all go back to the east return it to its rightful inhabitants ..


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## Virnut (Nov 8, 2012)

commtrd said:


> So what does it take to finally reverse the REAL problems behind the systemic destruction of one of the most precious ecosystems on earth?
> 
> True: follow the money, but what then? Is it already too late?


realistically wayy to late nice article tho


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Population is out of control.


Bingo Smackdaddy hit it right on the head overpopulated


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Bingo Smackdaddy hit it right on the head overpopulated


Halt all immigration. Got plenty. PLENTY.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Slow breeding and end tax breaks for having children.


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

Funny, I don't see the people promoting population control volunteering to step off the earth.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

MRichardson said:


> I'm willing to sacrifice a lot - if I thought it would restore FL to what it once was. But how we see FL is quite different from how the rest of the population here sees it - and plans to capitalize on it. They just see potential development, money, and tax revenues. When people actually agree to be responsible - socially, economically, and environmentally - to the extent that they sign it into the law of the land, that raises concerns with regard to liberty, freedom, individual rights... it's a messy world we live in. I think it's supposed to be this way. But it does suck.


It is not supposed to be this way. Society is so corrupted and shamelessly self-centered now that it precludes the ability for society to STOP IT and start to reclaim the legacy that should have been. 

Unfortunately does not seem likely to happen. The truth is that the schools, mass media, and gov have been conditioning everyone since birth basically that entitlement is a natural right. Everyone now believes that they are owed everything, and they bear no personal responsibility for their own circumstances. Or for the health of the ecosystems we all live in for that matter, witness meat-hauling, rampant over-population, mickey mouse, the whole rotting mess that is south Florida coming soon to a state near you. 

Better enjoy fishing RESPONSIBLY while there is still some left to enjoy because the day is coming when it will be gone. CPR, and fight like hell to save what is left.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

BassFlats said:


> Funny, I don't see the people promoting population control volunteering to step off the earth.


Of Course not- pretty much the whole Earth is American these days. Its precisely why they call it the.... "NEW WORLD" order. The club doesn't include microskiffers, that is for certain.


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## LtShinysides (Dec 27, 2018)

BassFlats said:


> Funny, I don't see the people promoting population control volunteering to step off the earth.


Nah, I'm not a flat earther. Instead, I decided to stop at one.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Virnut said:


> sick of the stabs at libs i dont vote but conservatives -this site- are fooling themselves if they think they are any better keep in mind long before flip or his dad. a red man ran that swamp. we lose track of that maybe we should all go back to the east return it to its rightful inhabitants ..


They were immigrants too, learn some history before it’s grabbled.


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## Cliff (Oct 13, 2016)

There are reasonable solutions-appropriate pricing of water being one of the most important. Impact fees that reflect the environmental cost of growth. Every person who visits and lives the area is part of the problem and should be paying to fix the problem. 

Is there any stomach in Florida to pay for what it will cost to improve the Everglades? Probably not. What it would take to improve the everglades is probably viewed as a socialist agenda involving federal, state and local governments imposing restrictions on how society uses resources.


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## Gvillewill (Feb 20, 2016)

My motto has always been, "If you don't want a swamp, don't buy a swamp"
If you look at any development in south Florida, you will see the first thing anybody does is put two feet of fill on the property. I was working in Jax yesterday and heard on the radio that 26 million was just appropriated to "restore" the beaches of St Johns county from hurricane damage. If there wasn't anything built on the beach, like Flagler Beach, you would not need to "restore" the beach from a natural occurrence. But I digress.
One of the problems as I see it, are politicians addicted to spending and the supply of money they get from property taxes makes them eager to approve projects that will put more tax dollars into their coffers.
When I was a kid, we lived in Crystal River for a time and used to swim in the Three sisters Spring which was completely secluded. Then, some developer cut canals all around the springs and built houses, (Property Tax revenue) with septic systems so that the river is nothing like it was when I was a kid.
If you really want to save the Glades, Outlaw Air conditioning short of that, stop subsidizing Big Sugar, Blow up the ****, fill in the canals.


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## Gvillewill (Feb 20, 2016)

GaG8tor said:


> So sad. From what I understand basically the whole state south of a line from Daytona to Tampa is basically screwed. Until folks start living more sustainably nothing will change. Those of us that actually care unfortunately probably aren’t enough to make a difference. The damage is done. I hope I’m wrong.


It's not just there. They are hard at work destroying the St Johns RB.


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## schwaggen01 (Dec 22, 2014)

Where we find ourselves today is direct downstream result of the “Manifest Destiny” philosophy of the 19th century’ where land and extractable resources were seen as a natural birthright of developed cultures. For the first couple hundred years of European colonialism, Florida was (rightly) seen as a tropical malarial sideline- it had (and continues to have) virtually no natural resources or naturally arable land, and the southern half of the state was covered in water. 
In the Reconstruction South, Florida needed to attract settlement, and there was a misguided idea that if you could drain the swamp, it would result in rich, farmable land (which it will, for a short period of time-it is not sustainable without artificial fertilization methods).What they failed to recognize is the larger natural systems they were disrupting. 
The naturalist movement of the same era (John Muir, Thoreau etc) sounded the warning bell, but were seen then, as now, as kooks who stood in the way of man’s natural place in the world. Thankfully, Theodore Roosevelt was a fan, and we have today’s National Parks as a result.
The advent of refrigeration, mosquito control and industrial terraforming made actual human habitation possible in southern Florida, and the population soared, especially in the postwar era (Thanks to air conditioning). Still, the damage being done remained largely hidden until recently. 
Yes, over population is a huge part of the problem- South Florida was simply never really suited to this level of habitation, and it cannot be sustained without carrying on a daily battle to keep the natural world at bay, and wring what we need from it without killing the source. 
Several factors will solve this for us, whether we like it or not: between sea-level rise and the slow degradation of the aquifers that supply the drinking water to the 8 million people downstream of Lake O. But you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube- Everglades restoration is possible, but it will never be what it was as long as the century-long history of roads, canals and people continue to encroach in its natural borders.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with the Everglades, rivers or the Lagoon. You can’t restore the these. You have to go back in time. Remove and restore all that has changed around it. There are too many people, too many roads, too much land built. Too many retention ponds that have done nothing. The campaigns for restoration should be called Restore Central FL or Restore Orlando. But that won’t happen. Do you honestly think these natural treasures can be saved? Hate to be negative, but I don’t think so. We are still growing. One way that might start a reversal is. We see it all the time, run down and abandoned neighborhoods, buildings, downtown areas and streets. We constantly, at least in my area throw millions at trying to reinvigorate them or turn them into parks for all the trash to hang out in. Usually with no success and then try it again. Money might be better spent wiping these areas clean and letting Mother Nature have it back. Once paved our leaders think it must remain paved. Won’t happen.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

As long as the economy is rocking, interest rates stay low and Florida has no state income tax we will have an influx in population. It's a double edged sword having affordable living in such a desirable climate in comparison to many other parts of the country. Basically it's Trump's fault.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

The real problem (and why nothing will be resolved permanently) is corporatacracy. There is no more "democracy" which is fancy word that means tyrannical mob control basically. Nope, the fact is that the control system [politicians-corrupt] are owned by big business. So what you see all around you everywhere is the same stuff happening, over and over, none of it good for the health of the ecosystems in particular or the health of the nation in general. If all this is true (it is) then why is it true? Follow the money. Well who butters the politician's bread?? What's the bottom line? Why does big sugar always seem to come out on the winning side while the Everglades dies? Unfortunately at this point, it may well be that the only possible way forward is militant action. Start taking out the offending infrastructure by covert guerrilla military actions. Otherwise NOTHING CHANGES. Lying thieving politicians keep taking corporate money which buys their office and perpetuates power. 

Folks there is no democracy or republic. There is a real small club of power brokers and we are not in it. The Everglades dies.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

el9surf said:


> As long as the economy is rocking, interest rates stay low and Florida has no state income tax we will have an influx in population. It's a double edged sword having affordable living in such a desirable climate in comparison to many other parts of the country. Basically it's Trump's fault.


Of course it is


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Trump is a symptom not the underlying disease. Besides I guess it would have been so much better with hitlary?!? 

Already a thread for this. Point being, what can be done REALISTICALLY to save the Everglades? Have to focus on real solutions, not argue about politician's crooked self-serving actions. Times a-wasting...


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## Virnut (Nov 8, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> They were immigrants too, learn some history before it’s grabbled.


funny assumption.. 15000 years sustainable advanced civilization with what we could consider 'normal' social structures . vs 150 years of our god fearing southern entitled bs.. think i struck a key with you. too many people.. maybe but it doesnt help the way we including myself think of our natural world.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

commtrd said:


> Trump is a symptom not the underlying disease. Besides I guess it would have been so much better with hitlary?!?
> 
> Already a thread for this. Point being, what can be done REALISTICALLY to save the Everglades? Have to focus on real solutions, not argue about politician's crooked self-serving actions. Times a-wasting...


Realistically nothing! To many people and growing. Eventually it will be restored but the human race won't be around to see it or be a part of it.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

EdK13 said:


> Halt all immigration. Got plenty. PLENTY.


You sir are a racist


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

commtrd said:


> Trump is a symptom not the underlying disease. Besides I guess it would have been so much better with hitlary?!?
> 
> Already a thread for this. Point being, what can be done REALISTICALLY to save the Everglades? Have to focus on real solutions, not argue about politician's crooked self-serving actions. Times a-wasting...


Relax, my Trump comment was a joke. Everything else gets blamed on him, might as well add this to the list.


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## jtf (Jan 16, 2014)

*Cliff Wrote:* "There are reasonable solutions-appropriate pricing of water being one of the most important. Impact fees that reflect the environmental cost of growth. Every person who visits and lives the area is part of the problem and should be paying to fix the problem."

I agree with Cliff's above assessment. Impact fees should be for everyone: industry, farms, homeowners, resorts. My association with the area is from fishing and visiting for the past 50 years, and an old newly-deceased school teacher Florida Cracker I roomed with way back in college. 

I am only a Level One Rosgen student, but it doesn't take math to figure the water problem has grown nearly too far to be reclaimed. Without the full support of governments, _a lot of money and public support, _it's doomed. It can be fixed, needs to start NOW.

There is a comment in this topic that get's it. The destruction of the Glades began in the beginnings of the continental US Expansion, only not west, but south. Some of the same cast and crew however.

Want some history? https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Swamp/Michael-Grunwald/9780743251075

And perhaps read FSU Everglades Assessment or just read the intro, and it's an "old" study. So what's the holdup *CITIZENS*? Think your voices aren't important? A phone call to a politician's office is free. They pay more attention to a letter/fax imo. 

(Sorry Members, my soapbox needs a couple nails replaced. Heading to the shop now).


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## SeaDrifter (Apr 4, 2018)

We have the same problem here in Texas. Along our little stretch of the gulf that we call home there are no less that 3 refineries that are polluting our waters and our air. The state has taken measures to preserve the marshes and that's all well and good but at any given time I can go to the neighboring bay system and find fine, white plastic pellets all along the shore. "We" are collectively destroying all that is good about this world, one politician at a time.




Michael


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

SeaDrifter said:


> We have the same problem here in Texas. Along our little stretch of the gulf that we call home there are no less that 3 refineries that are polluting our waters and our air. The state has taken measures to preserve the marshes and that's all well and good but at any given time I can go to the neighboring bay system and find fine, white plastic pellets all along the shore. "We" are collectively destroying all that is good about this world, one politician at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve lived and fished here (less than 20 miles from said plants) for almost 4 decades and the plants aren’t the issue, it’s the people and what comes with them and out of them. I admit Alcoa and Formosa aren’t the best for the environment but the population explosion in the last 30 years has done much more damage.


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## SeaDrifter (Apr 4, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’ve lived and fished here (less than 20 miles from said plants) for almost 4 decades and the plants aren’t the issue, it’s the people and what comes with them and out of them. I admit Alcoa and Formosa aren’t the best for the environment but the population explosion in the last 30 years has done much more damage.


I have a decade on you and you are correct. When I was a kid in the 70’s fishing out of the little sleepy fishing village known as Port O’Connor, there weren’t a couple dozen fish camps. Now, you have to park a mile away after you launch unless you get started a couple hours before daybreak. Trash everywhere and...you are correct. 




Michael


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

I don't mean to turn this into a political thread but..

Sportsman, outdoorsmen, fishermen, hunters, however you see yourself... we tend to be a politically conservative group but in this case we vote against ourselves. For those of us that cherish the outdoors and passing these traditions down to our children, we sure seem to support the politicians catering to the developers and corporations getting rich off destroying the environment.

I've voted Red all my life and support 2A but the GOP is also the party of deregulation and pro-corporations which means pro-development by billionaires. Look at Trump's EPA head and his history and ask yourself how this can be good for your children's fishing and hunting.

Prior to moving to south FL from TX, I was so excited to soon be fishing places like Flamingo but I was too late. I'll re-evaluate where to retire in 15-20 years but I know it won't be south FL any longer. It's already been lost.

Politics aside... there are just too many damn people


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Currently working in the refining and petrochemical industries (for over 32 years) and offshore production for around 8 years before that, I can promise yall that the plants are stringently monitored for emissions to air and water. As analyzer technician, I personally maintain the analytical instrumentation that is used to verify compliance with TCEQ mandates on environmental standards. Not to say the plants do not ever pollute. Everyone knows that is a load of crap. BUT on the other hand, the industry is many times blamed for pollution that does not originate with the plants. 

Now if you shift over to FL, obviously the 800 lb gorilla is big sugar. THAT right there is a direct benefactor of government largesse on a truly massive scale, and should have been done away with many years ago but hey FL must have the best politicians money can buy yes?


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## Capt. Moose (Dec 12, 2015)

Ban yet skis and everyone who rides them..


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## SeaDrifter (Apr 4, 2018)

Half Shell said:


> I don't mean to turn this into a political thread but..
> 
> Politics aside... there are just too many damn people


 That's kind of where I was going in post #64. That and over populated areas filled with people who are only concerned about themselves and have the "I do what I want, I'm grown" attitude (my son't favorite phrase his Sr year in high school 12 years ago).

Unfortunately I believe this is a problem that will only get worse with time. Even if people somehow agreed to relocate and surrender their property back to nature the expense to do so would be staggering and then it would be artificial. 





Michael


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

My family has lived in Dade Co. since the late 1800's. Population when my grandmother was a child was about 1500. When my parents were children, about 29,000. When I was a child, about 180,000. Population today is estimated approaching 3,000,000. This mass of people watering lawns, flushing toilets, driving automobiles, building homes on 1/4 acre lots, discarding waste, using chemicals and, in general modifying the environment to suit them is a nearly irresistible force. Anyone who dreams that Florida environment will ever go back to the way it was 70 or even 50 years ago is deluding himself (unless there's a plan to eliminate about 19 million people). Florida's economy depends on tourism, retirement and perpetually attracting more inhabitants. That's not likely to change until there's no more space to stack dwellings.

So, instead of wishing for the impossible, maybe the best path is to try to shape the future so that it's the best compromise between golf courses and wet lands. Making it more difficult to reside in South Florida would be good first step, but as always any taxation, code restrictions, or legislation designed to accomplish this goal would be resisted by some segments of the population. Good luck, to politicians who actually try to make things better.

P.S. Phil, you may not remember me by name, but I knew you as a boy in Coral Gables. You were a terror with a slingshot and did some pretty significant damage to the local small animal and bird population. I was the kid who knocked himself silly on a little down hill on a borrowed bicycle with hand brakes because I was used to coaster brakes.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

One big thing FL COULD do immediately to help stop massive people influx is institute heavy taxation increases including a state income tax. 

Much as I detest even the mention of such a thing, have to admit that would definitely shut down at least half the incoming population pressure. Make it incredibly un-attractive financially from heavy taxation, well that would be using progressive taxation to its finest effect. Odious as it is. Make it hurt badly to move to FL, penalize the crap out of everyone who lives there already, that would be the only real action that could be taken now that would actually start to work. 

Will that happen? Of course not all the Mickey mousers and everyone else would be up in arms immediately. Funny how all the peeps could revolt about taxation but could give a crap about literally losing a national treasure that is this ecosystem. Sadly from an outsider looking in, yall are doing it to yourselves. Really I guess we are all "doing it to ourselves" on a national level. As it goes with the Everglades, so it goes with the good old US of A. It's done, stick a fork in it.


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## Doublehaul (Oct 3, 2015)

Virnut said:


> here in NC one could say the lowlands are as developed as a 50s south fla. the worst part is we are not learning from each other. Working on a house today that shamelessly has filled a navigatble creek for their 5bdrm septic.
> 
> its a pain for true outdoorsman to come into understanding its all better without us.


Yeah, but that's the problem. Why the hell should anyone be allowed to fill in an entire creek for their Crappers? NC state govt not doing their job. Pretty similar in SC.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Capt. Moose said:


> Ban yet skis and everyone who rides them..


well not all riders.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Anybody know where Flip's letter originally appeared?


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Capnredfish said:


> well not all riders.
> View attachment 100294



If only. The only jet skiers I see in Naples look like this.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> ***** are definitely a problem these days...


Stay on point smack!


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

commtrd said:


> One big thing FL COULD do immediately to help stop massive people influx is institute heavy taxation increases including a state income tax.
> 
> Much as I detest even the mention of such a thing, have to admit that would definitely shut down at least half the incoming population pressure. Make it incredibly un-attractive financially from heavy taxation, well that would be using progressive taxation to its finest effect. Odious as it is. Make it hurt badly to move to FL, penalize the crap out of everyone who lives there already, that would be the only real action that could be taken now that would actually start to work.
> 
> Will that happen? Of course not all the Mickey mousers and everyone else would be up in arms immediately. Funny how all the peeps could revolt about taxation but could give a crap about literally losing a national treasure that is this ecosystem. Sadly from an outsider looking in, yall are doing it to yourselves. Really I guess we are all "doing it to ourselves" on a national level. As it goes with the Everglades, so it goes with the good old US of A. It's done, stick a fork in it.


After fishing the lake I fished today I’m convinced spraying needs to stop.

Absolutely a pristine example of what our lakes in Palm Beach County should be. It may be private, but it’s connected to the main artery to Lake O, yet the weeds keep it spotless.


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## FireTurtle (Apr 27, 2019)

Fishshoot said:


> Their used to be a group called zero population growth....


It's called Population Connection now. Used to be the same thing as the original Earth Day organizers until they diverged. Then ZPG changed it's name a while back to Population Connection.


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## Scrob (Aug 26, 2015)

schwaggen01 said:


> Where we find ourselves today is direct downstream result of the “Manifest Destiny” philosophy of the 19th century’ where land and extractable resources were seen as a natural birthright of developed cultures. For the first couple hundred years of European colonialism, Florida was (rightly) seen as a tropical malarial sideline- it had (and continues to have) virtually no natural resources or naturally arable land, and the southern half of the state was covered in water.
> In the Reconstruction South, Florida needed to attract settlement, and there was a misguided idea that if you could drain the swamp, it would result in rich, farmable land (which it will, for a short period of time-it is not sustainable without artificial fertilization methods).What they failed to recognize is the larger natural systems they were disrupting.
> The naturalist movement of the same era (John Muir, Thoreau etc) sounded the warning bell, but were seen then, as now, as kooks who stood in the way of man’s natural place in the world. Thankfully, Theodore Roosevelt was a fan, and we have today’s National Parks as a result.
> The advent of refrigeration, mosquito control and industrial terraforming made actual human habitation possible in southern Florida, and the population soared, especially in the postwar era (Thanks to air conditioning). Still, the damage being done remained largely hidden until recently.
> ...


This. Nice to see a presentation of historical fact followed by a well informed opinion. No name calling, no blaming someone different from you...that's the easy way to argue


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## mmthunt (Aug 11, 2018)

Flip is right on...It's all about money. Historically developers and special interest groups have raped Florida from the early days of the development of the state to the present. Until the political courage exists to combat greed in this state, it will continue unabated.
As bad as it is today, my grandchildren and their grandchildren will inherit a future not even Flip could imagine. Sad to contemplate! Glad I won't be here to see it.


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## kamy329 (May 28, 2018)

Chris Morejohn said:


> How about forming a coalition of JBC back hoe owners and just start opening the dikes. Get arrested and just plead temporary insanity. Get off on community service and dig another trench. There has to be a few lawyers could use the attention that would offer pro bono assistance. Just imagine 100 JBC’s opening the dikes randomly through out the area.
> Well... just a thought.


It may come down to that. The hundreds of thousands of acres of land that was drained to grow sugar and the millions of gallons of fertilizer and herbicides that support it have had a lot more impact than the population growth. Not to mention the millions of gallons of fuel used to harvest and process the sugar cane. We used to plant thousands of acres of sugar beets in the Midwest, no longer happening. Big sugar couldn’t care less about our water, they just know it is cheaper to process sugar cane than sugar beets, they also knew they could buy our politicians. Please remember that when you vote next year, pay attention to how your politicians are actually voting not what they say they are going to do while running for office.


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

So I guess the materials used to produce our expensive fly rods and skiffs ,do nothing to harm our enviornments,everglades or else where or the fancy fly company cloths,let's all think what we buy and how we live and not be hypocrites. I think it's a horrible outcome of our estuaries but most of us on this site have plenty of toys and nice houses and don't follow epa,voc rules while building ,customizing or repairing our skiffs in our garages or yards.WHO HAS THE ANSWERS ?


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Capnredfish said:


> well not all riders.
> View attachment 100294


She's gonna need that helmet for when I start lobbing 1oz egg sinkers at her with a slingshot.


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## Jim Lenfest (Jul 20, 2016)

Backwater said:


> My name is Flip Pallot and I write in response to having read your Miami Herald piece on python invasion...I was born and raised, as were my parents, in South Dade County. I grew up in the Everglades alongside many of its' pioneers, or Gladesmen. I knew the Glades intimately from Cape Sable to Alligator Alley...from west of Miami to the Gulf of Mexico...I ran airboats, polled canoes, Glade Skiffs, walked and waded the best part of my life through what was the most precious eco-system on the planet. The number of ducks, wading birds, deer, otters, hogs, bear, lions and other fur bearers was astounding and virtually remembered today by very few! The road from Florida City down through the Everglades National Park to the village of Flamingo, at the bottom of the State, was literally infested with deer, swamp rabbits, snakes, frogs, crawfish, gators, hawks, nesting turtles and crows...while the prairies on either side of the road were covered in vegetation which no longer exists. As far as the eye could see there were thousands of wading birds of every species...now all gone, their rookeries abandoned. Ride down that road for the next 100 mornings and you will not see a single deer or swamp rabbit and birds only where a very few puddles of water exist.
> 
> It's mostly gone now, never to be restored, which has nothing at all to do with wild hog invasions, python invasions or the "Skunk Ape". Someone should have the "Stones" to look the problem in the eye and call it what it is rather than blame the python and hog for the death of the Everglades! It's like saying
> "My eyesight is getting really bad because of my hemorrhoids".
> ...


Great Job on this piece. Other than I would still remove the heads from the pythons, to give the birds something to pick at, but still a great job on this story.


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

Charles Hadley said:


> So I guess the materials used to produce our expensive fly rods and skiffs ,do nothing to harm our environments, everglades or else where or the fancy fly company cloths,let's all think what we buy and how we live and not be hypocrites. I think it's a horrible outcome of our estuaries but most of us on this site have plenty of toys and nice houses and don't follow epa,voc rules while building ,customizing or repairing our skiffs in our garages or yards.WHO HAS THE ANSWERS ?


I agree with you that VOCs, plastic, and fiberglass dust are bad for the environment.

I dont agree that they have the kind of impact that killing natures phosphate filters, and simultaneously sterilizing lake bottoms has. 

Even in my little neighborhood its obvious. The lakes with no vegetation are diarrhea brown with a half foot of visibility (if that), vs the lake directly across the street with Cat Tails, Littorals, Eel Grass, and Lilly Pads. Its clear with 3 or 4 foot visibility like it should be. If it had hydrilla it would be gin clear but thats too much to ask.


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## Coffeyonthefly (Mar 20, 2019)

The Glades ran from the Atlantic to the Gulf and was a 100 miles wide now you have Fort Lauderdale and Naples and the Glades are barely 50 miles wide. We can not restore the sheet flow. We screwed with nature and everyone lost. 
The Kissimmee River, Avon Park, all the way to South Dade all wasted. Area 1 and 2 are gone and the rest will fall soon.


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

jasonrl23 said:


> I agree with you that VOCs, plastic, and fiberglass dust are bad for the environment.
> 
> I dont agree that they have the kind of impact that killing natures phosphate filters, and simultaneously sterilizing lake bottoms has.
> 
> Even in my little neighborhood its obvious. The lakes with no vegetation are diarrhea brown with a half foot of visibility (if that), vs the lake directly across the street with Cat Tails, Littorals, Eel Grass, and Lilly Pads. Its clear with 3 or 4 foot visibility like it should be. If it had hydrilla it would be gin clear but thats too much to ask.


Agreed. My point is that so many people get on the bash the things we all do and have done for many years.if we bitch about road run off,fertilizer, cattle farms and sugar we would be we are being hypocrites, unless you don't use any sugar,grow your own food with compost,live in a grass hut and drag your wooden dog out canoe through the woods ,make your own fishing equipment and grow your own cotton for clothes.lets get real yes it's bad yes we need to do things to improve it but the yeti soap boxes aren't made of wood. I'll leave this alone now,like it or not,anyone ,just my thoughts


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## Zaraspook (Aug 3, 2017)

Big Sugar has been subsidized by the gov for decades. It’s cheaper to get our sugar from outside of the US. 

The problem here, in a nutshell, is that Yankees have flooded over our border for decades and when they got here they wanted Florida to be remade in their image of what it should be. Golf courses, gated communities, mega shopping centers, and yes, Disney World. Big business and local governments were more than happy to accommodate all of this bullshit in the name of more money. Now we are depending on the Government [Florida Water Mgt and the Feds] to fix some of this. When has the Government ever been able to fix anything! 

For about 50 years now I have been in favor of allowing Yankees to “take only pictures and leave only footprints”. No one listened. They were too busy raising families and making money. The crooks[government] in Tallahassee were only too happy to promote gambling and all kinds of other crap to make it happen even faster. 

I was born in Miami when it was a sleepy little city. I have been running away from the Yankee version of Florida my whole life. It seems like every time I move away, it catches back up to me eventually. The only saving grace now is that I am old. I will not live to see it completely destroyed. Fortunately I can still head out into the marsh right in front of my house and find tailing redfish on the floods, greyhounding reds or schooled up reds finning on the lows. I just need ten more years and I’m outta here.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Virnut said:


> funny assumption.. 15000 years sustainable advanced civilization with what we could consider 'normal' social structures . vs 150 years of our god fearing southern entitled bs.. think i struck a key with you. too many people.. maybe but it doesnt help the way we including myself think of our natural world.


VirNut, your “southern entitled bs” remark requires clarification. Please elaborate


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## Virnut (Nov 8, 2012)

no


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Virnut said:


> no


Smart boy


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Zaraspook said:


> Big Sugar has been subsidized by the gov for decades. It’s cheaper to get our sugar from outside of the US.
> 
> The problem here, in a nutshell, is that Yankees have flooded over our border for decades and when they got here they wanted Florida to be remade in their image of what it should be. Golf courses, gated communities, mega shopping centers, and yes, Disney World. Big business and local governments were more than happy to accommodate all of this bullshit in the name of more money. Now we are depending on the Government [Florida Water Mgt and the Feds] to fix some of this. When has the Government ever been able to fix anything!
> 
> ...


During the election I got all excited because I thought Trumps wall was going to be along the Mason-Dixon line.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

EdK13 said:


> Perpetual growth, at the expense of societal health and natures wonders, is a bad bargain.


Ed, the Vig must be paid.


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

So ...who signed up for the cca golf tournament at black diamond ranch?!......sorry couldn't help myself.....sure all of our yeti sponsored hero conservationist will be there! Hahahahaha


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

I know all of you got the email!


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

*Gov. Ron DeSantis announces Everglades restoration milestone in Martin County*

https://www.fox4now.com/news/protec...IgwfAfQesomsjRSw-MJmuc2YtrS_F0ZCZopGQRwBhgLQs

fingers crossed this is just the beginning


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2019)

Half Shell said:


> *Gov. Ron DeSantis announces Everglades restoration milestone in Martin County*
> 
> https://www.fox4now.com/news/protec...IgwfAfQesomsjRSw-MJmuc2YtrS_F0ZCZopGQRwBhgLQs
> 
> fingers crossed this is just the beginning


This is great news, but it ain’t helpin the glades yet! That water needs to go south to help the glades! Hopefully soon!


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

I’ve seen what over development can do in my short life. The “Golden Isles” of Georgia are complete garbage. Not the same place I grew up in the 70’s. But if you’re lucky enough to get out to the undeveloped islands they are pristine. Beautiful beaches, huge dunes, and yes clear water. If you didn’t know you’d never believe you were in Georgia. I believe there’s a fine line between development and destroying our land and resources. Unfortunately most of us dumbass humans can’t see it. For places where the damage is done I fear there is no hope. For all the places that aren’t we must fight like hell to protect them.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

The End is Nearer


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

Half Shell said:


> *Gov. Ron DeSantis announces Everglades restoration milestone in Martin County*
> 
> https://www.fox4now.com/news/protec...IgwfAfQesomsjRSw-MJmuc2YtrS_F0ZCZopGQRwBhgLQs
> 
> fingers crossed this is just the beginning


Very cool! I hope they open it up to non powered fishing.


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

MariettaMike said:


> The End is Nearer
> View attachment 101700


Funny how all the focus is on CO2. Meanwhile the sun will be entering its solar minimum in 2020. NASA has said it potentially could extend well beyond 10 years. We will see record breaking storms for the next few years.


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## Zaraspook (Aug 3, 2017)

A step in the right direction. If we only spent a small portion of the money we pay for illegals we could fix this immediately and still have plenty left over to pay down our national debt.


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

There you go zaraspook, interjecting common sense into the solution.


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## Monty (Jan 10, 2018)

I remember when people couldn't drain the "SWAMPS" in Florida fast enough. Big track hoes and drag lines digging canals were viewed as progress. It was good. No one wanted swamp, let's turn this crappy land into good neighborhoods or strip malls. There is so much of it, it's impossible to ever run out. After all, a landowner has the right to do whatever they want. So buy the cheap swamp land, drain it and sell it. Reap the rewards and buy a new Cadillac. Now we see we have done serious damage to the Everglades. BUT this same lesson is coming to North Florida, Central Florida, the panhandle. Our state doubled in population in 30 years. It'll double again. Everyone wants to live in the country or along the waterfront. Then gradually, the countryside starts looking like the town they left. Florida needs to balance progress with nature. Flip --the Everglades are great, I've been there 2x. I know it means a lot to you. How about the rest of the state? North Florida is what concerns me. How about doing something to stop these ecological disasters all across Florida? Guess what -- the track hoes are digging somewhere today and some fat cat is making $$$ off of it.


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## Monty (Jan 10, 2018)

I remember when people couldn't drain the "SWAMPS" in Florida fast enough. Big track hoes and drag lines digging canals were viewed as progress. It was good. No one wanted swamp, let's turn this crappy land into good neighborhoods or strip malls. There is so much of it, it's impossible to ever run out. After all, a landowner has the right to do whatever they want. So buy the cheap swamp land, drain it and sell it. Reap the rewards and buy a new Cadillac. Now we see we have done serious damage to the Everglades. BUT this same lesson is coming to North Florida, Central Florida, the panhandle. Our state doubled in population in 30 years. It'll double again. Everyone wants to live in the country or along the waterfront. Then gradually, the countryside starts looking like the town they left. Florida needs to balance progress with nature. Flip --the Everglades are great, I've been there 2x. I know it means a lot to you. How about the rest of the state? North Florida is what concerns me. How about doing something to stop these ecological disasters all across Florida? Guess what -- the track hoes are digging somewhere today and some fat cat is making $$$ off of it.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

wish i would have skipped math class as much as you



Zaraspook said:


> A step in the right direction. If we only spent a small portion of the money we pay for illegals we could fix this immediately and still have plenty left over to pay down our national debt.


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## Zaraspook (Aug 3, 2017)

jsnipes said:


> wish i would have skipped math class as much as you


Looks like all those math classes you took didn’t help.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

The difference between us and our forefathers is they picked up their rifles when they saw something worth fighting for. We just go on the Internet and complain


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

dlpanadero said:


> The difference between us and our forefathers is they picked up their rifles when they saw something worth fighting for. We just go on the Internet and complain


Or people get a fancy office and hang hulls from the ceiling, maybe make a short video with a cup or cooler in it.lmf'nao at all the big companies and spokesmen for them,sorry guys but all big time guides have thier pictures at thier houses with politicians and the big businesses CEOs ,they had no problem taking thier money,now blame them!the everglades went to shit then the lagoon, stop moving north in Florida and see if the conditions stay the same here,maybe that will answer the questions?


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

Question for you all... If you posted a video of yourself on the internet of you dumping a gallon of the same chemical the FWC sprays into our lakes or canals, into the Indian River Lagoon, a reef in 70 feet of water, or randomly into the intracoastal, what do you think will happen to you?


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

Everyone on this thread should post a picture of thier yard,bet they are all green grass.mine is,is yours ?honestly?anyone?


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

Charles Hadley said:


> Everyone on this thread should post a picture of thier yard,bet they are all green grass.mine is,is yours ?honestly?anyone?


Mine is green. Au natural. Only water it gets is from the rain. But then again I don’t live in a neighborhood where they can tell you how green your grass has to be


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

GaG8tor said:


> Mine is green. Au natural. Only water it gets is from the rain. But then again I don’t live in a neighborhood where they can tell you how green your grass has to be


That's great ,the way it should be,do you live in Florida?


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

Charles Hadley said:


> That's great ,the way it should be,do you live in Florida?


Georgia. About 30 miles south of Savannah


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

GaG8tor said:


> Mine is green. Au natural. Only water it gets is from the rain. But then again I don’t live in a neighborhood where they can tell you how green your grass has to be


Wish we could get to happen in st Augustine


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

I was down your way a few weeks ago at Crescent Beach with the family. We had a great time. The missus caught her first red(s) ever.


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

Love living and fishing here


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

Very nice. I gotta get back down there.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Zaraspook said:


> Looks like all those math classes you took didn’t help.


sick burnnnn bro.


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

Charles Hadley said:


> Everyone on this thread should post a picture of thier yard,bet they are all green grass.mine is,is yours ?honestly?anyone?


Mine is green. I use 16-4-8 once per year in October. Then N only, twice a year. I follow UFs low maintenance southern Florida lawn PDF. Minus the broad application of weed killer. 

I have less of a problem with fertilizer, and more of an issue with the pointless removal of natures phosphate filters.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Charles Hadley said:


> Everyone on this thread should post a picture of thier yard,bet they are all green grass.mine is,is yours ?honestly?anyone?


Mine is 100% natural. Some grass, some clover, some wild onion. Currently looks like VC should be popping out of it and ambushing me since I haven't cut it in two months.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm with ^. Most would say mine looks like shit. My back yard is a mix of patio, rock firepit, mulch and sand where grass used to live. I tried re-soding twice but my backyard butts up to protected wetlands and marsh and a Massive oak tree covers it. Spreading crap wouldn't help it.


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## Monty (Jan 10, 2018)

Charles Hadley said:


> Everyone on this thread should post a picture of thier yard,bet they are all green grass.mine is,is yours ?honestly?anyone?


My grass gets no extra water except rain and no fertilizer. I do spray weedkiller ocassionally by spot treatments. I get your point. Thousands of people have water front property and LUSH Bermuda grass lawns. They care zero for their contribution to polluting the bays and rivers.


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## Zaraspook (Aug 3, 2017)

Charles Hadley said:


> Everyone on this thread should post a picture of thier yard,bet they are all green grass.mine is,is yours ?honestly?anyone?


I live in St. Augustine and we don’t put fertilizer on the grass. It might not be as green or as manicured as yours, but that’s your choice.


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