# 4 way rod shoot out - 10 weights



## Danny Moody (Jan 22, 2016)

Another one to try is the Sage X 1090-4. Those who have it state it's the finest 10wt to date. I am looking forward to getting my hands on it soon.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

This is the one rod that can be a PITA. Most people who use a 10wt don't realize it, but they are doing more bling casting with it than sight casting. Throwing a few demo rods for a few casts doesn't do the whole 10wt thing any justice. Try fishing with one a half day and your thoughts might change. I've done some ridiculously long threads on the subject (you can do a search if you are bored and want to screw up your brain on the subject (as well as my thoughts on 1 piece 10wts)).

Bottom line is, in a 10wt, I like the rod to have more flex in it (be mindful that I love an extra fast rod from 6-8wts). It helps to make those heavier lines easier to throw longer. Otherwise, in a 10wt, ultra fast also = stiff, which can wear some people out in about 15mins. If you're a casting stud, you get what I'm saying after about an 1.5hrs blind casting the thing. So I start leaning to a rod that I wouldn't normally consider in the lighter weights. Slower tips and or more progressive flow to the rod, instead of a piece of stiff dry spaghetti noodle.

So what do you have to do to make a rod work well like that? Change up your casting stroke, slow down, don't think like you need to hurry it and create all this line speed and just the shear mass and inertia of the flyline on a straight path once it gets traveling will go the distance you need it to go. So with those larger softer rods (as opposed to the extra fast rods), slow down, open up your casting stroke and bury your thumb into your cork handle as you roll your wrist over, on your final shoot, instead of trying to fist punch someones lights out.

One more note. Believe it or not, a 10wt gets less use in someone's arsenal than with most rods. However, having that rod when needed can be the ideal tool. The other thing is a lot of travel destinations like Mexico will have opportunities to use a 10wt. Anymore, it's almost impossible to travel by air with a 9ft long 1 piece rod. But a 4 piece rod makes more logistical sense. So consider that, to give a 10wt more diversity. If I was traveling to a fishing destination and can only take 2 rods (more than 2 is a hassle), it would be a fast 8 and a moderate fast 10, both in a 4 piece.

So now, back to the original post. If you are doing a 10wt shootout, looking for the best casting fast rod, I'd also consider finding a dealer to demo the Hardy Zephyrus 1 piece and 4 piece. This in a 4 piece is also very close to their one piece than others I've seen. 

Other more progressive but stiff on the upper side of medium fast to try, as an alternative to ultra fast in the 10wt category (just to see and feel what I'm talking about), is the Hardy Sintrex Zeinth, Scott Tidal, Loomis CC GLX, Orvis Recon, TFO Mangrove, Sage One, Winston BII&III and T&T fastest model (they have never been ultra fast but a nice casting rod in that weight class).

Back to my spin on the subject..... If you are throwing a piece of lint on the grass to test out the true properties of a 10wt, then you are never really testing out the properties of a 10wt. J.... it's a different animal than ALL your other rods. In over 25yrs of fishing a 10wt for true 10wt fish here on the Gulf coast of Florida (not MS or Louisanna), with true 10wt flies that those fish want (i,e, heavier and/or very big bulky flies), oh.... and in crap windy conditions in deeper water, then those conditions and fish call for only one line. A clear full intermediate sink line. Sure, a floater will work on some situations, but an intermediate sink line is the best thing to use for most situations where a 10wt is called for. And the challenge is throwing it in a clear when you are not fully up to speed yet on your casting. So a mod fast rod will allow you to feel your line loading up when you have a hard time really seeing what your loops are doing. Get it?

What you should do is hook up with someone and go fish with them that happens to have a 10wt like what you are interested in and fish that rod for a couple. An example is one time I fish 2 rods that were handed to me. Both were NRX Pro 1's in a 9 & 10. I like the 9 and I could cast the 10 with some authority, but after about 15 mins, I decided I didn't like the 10 so much. Another example is, I really like the fast feel of the 8wt BVK, but it still has some flow to the rod. The 9 BVK is fishable but starts feeling stiff and then the 10wt becomes stiff and not pleasant after a short while. On the flip side of the coin, the 8 in a mangrove is a little softer for my liking in an 8wt, tho easy to cast up close to the mangroves with. In the 9, it becomes more "fishable" of a rod than the BVK 9 and in the 10wt, for a heavy 10wt, it made me grin to cast and fish it.. The difference in the 2 rods is this.... The BVK in the 9 & 10wts are faster, lighter weight and lighter on the swing, but harder to cast. The Mangrove in those same weights are slightly slower in the tip and mid section, heavier overall, and heavier on the swing, but they are easier to cast. Same thing with the Meridian vs the Tidal. Same thing with the Orvis H2 vs the Recon.

So what do you want to be known for, what your buddies see you casting those cool rigs, or how productive you can be with the best tool and value you can get for the job overall for the long haul? Hey, I'm sure you can afford a full quiver of NRX Pro 1's with the matching reels. But don't be afraid to drop down some on rods you might not use that often and collect dust. With that being said, it is a rod that doesn't get used very often and is one of the 1st rods to get thinned out of someone's quiver, downsizing and thinning out what isn't used that often. There you will find deals on exactly what is called for in a 10wt, and give you more spending dough on other rods you may need or want, like a good 6wt, etc.

One final thought on the subject. Here's where going with a heavier reel, like what we've been discussing earlier, comes in handy. A heavier reel will add more counter balance to the rod and will cause resistance when the rod is turning over, thereby causing it to flex and load up easier. Sure, it's heavier to pick up and hold in your hand. But your not casting overhead with it (??) and doing more of a elbows down at your side and casting with the rod at a 45 degree angle mostly, from the bow of the boat. So it wouldn't bee that big of a deal in terms of physical weight, but the opposing weight and therefore force, will cause that 10wt with those heavy lines (and dragging a wind resistant fly behind the line), to cast easier.



And that's my thoughts and pontification on the subject to consider when picking out a 10wt. 

Take your time and test out all the possibilities and make the best choice that will work for most of your needs. Most of all, have fun with it!


Ted Haas


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

Some really good feedback, Ted. I did find that slowing the stroke down on all these rods (especially the softer ones) really helped, and the line did shoot with the slower stroke. Given your feedback, I would seriously consider the 4 piece Meridian a bit more - it has a beautifully soft tip, and still some backbone, along with with a low swing weight. The more progressive action on this sized rod does make some sense as you described. I could see my self casting the softer rods along a shoreline or dock lights for quite a while, but the Pro1 less so. I think the Pro 1 would be the best 80 lb Tarpon rod, though. Actually, I was planning on going back next week and throwing them all one more time before buying one. As I said - I think they were all great rods, just depends on what you are looking for. I think what you said makes sense, so I may give a little more consideration to the 4 piece Meridian and even the Helios as well. I think the 2 piece Meridian was too stiff for me.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Danny Moody said:


> Another one to try is the Sage X 1090-4. Those who have it state it's the finest 10wt to date. I am looking forward to getting my hands on it soon.


That's what I bought after trying side by side with the Meridian. Watched another guy try the exact same two rods with the exact same line and he bought the Meridian. But I think I'm a better caster than him.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MSG said:


> Some really good feedback, Ted. I did find that slowing the stroke down on all these rods (especially the softer ones) really helped, and the line did shoot with the slower stroke. Given your feedback, I would seriously consider the 4 piece Meridian a bit more - it has a beautifully soft tip, and still some backbone, along with with a low swing weight. The more progressive action on this sized rod does make some sense as you described. I could see my self casting the softer rods along a shoreline or dock lights for quite a while, but the Pro1 less so. I think the Pro 1 would be the best 80 lb Tarpon rod, though. Actually, I was planning on going back next week and throwing them all one more time before buying one. As I said - I think they were all great rods, just depends on what you are looking for. I think what you said makes sense, so I may give a little more consideration to the 4 piece Meridian and even the Helios as well. I think the 2 piece Meridian was too stiff for me.


I know Capt LeMAy says they've caught poons on 10wts up to 80lbs, but If I was fishing for poons from 50-80lbs, the 1st stick I'd grab would be your 11wt. You'll see what I mean. I usually use a 10wt for smaller poons between 30-50lbs. Remember, it's not the size of the fly, it's the ass in the butt section of the rod, along with your fighting skills, to get them in quick enough, without over exhausting the fish, especially during the summer. I'm predicting we are going to have record high water temps this year. By end of May, it should be like bath water!

Ted


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MariettaMike said:


> That's what I bought after trying side by side with the Meridian. Watched another guy try the exact same two rods with the exact same line and he bought the Meridian. But I think I'm a better caster than him.


Interesting to here your review between the X and the One in the 10wt.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

You never mentioned what line you were using when trying these rods out, I generally start with the primary line I want to use and then find a rod that casts that line efficiently. Lines vary so much in head weight and length in addition to whether they're floaters or intermediates etc, each one casts differently, make sure your whole setup is tuned to what you're going to using it for.
JC


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jonrconner said:


> You never mentioned what line you were using when trying these rods out, I generally start with the primary line I want to use and then find a rod that casts that line efficiently. Lines vary so much in head weight and length in addition to whether they're floaters or intermediates etc, each one casts differently, make sure your whole setup is tuned to what you're going to using it for.
> JC


True! 

Tho the damnist thing about splitting hairs is the numbers of variable can go up past that level of one's patience and effort when looking for the ideal setup, unless they either happen across an immediate "perfect fit" or are just plain persistence to find the perfect combination of rod, line and reel balance in a 10wt (or any other size rod) for what someone will have the majority of uses for.  

The flip side of the coin you mentioned is that some lines feel better on some rods, rather than others. So a rod that doesn't quite feel right with your favorite line can feel like a dream with another line. Or a recommended rod with certain nice properties with a favorite line might not feel right fishing certain flies in the majority of the conditions where it will be used in.

To throw a 3rd variable into the mix, balancing the rod to the reel is another factor, especially in a 10wt. Another variable can be the actually weight of the fly line balanced to the rod vs your casting needs, casting style and the flies and conditions you will be using it in (most of the time). And let's not forget someone's casting level, experience and style. Some may have only fished with an 8wt productively (even a 9) but never picked nor fished a 10wt. Someone could have experience throwing a fast rod out on open windy flats but needs a stick to throw in tight to the mangroves and that type of rod and casting just messes with their head and they are all over the place with their fly (or vise versa). 

Bottom line is... not all rods and fly lines, fit all or the majority of fishing conditions someone may have vs another person's fishing conditions. So it can be frustrating for some  or kind of a fun quest for others.  I've observed many here on this board continuing going thru the hurtles and pitfalls of such a quest (names will be kept under my hat! ).

There are a number of things to help lead someone to the right "fit" for them. a.) They have tons of experience on which lines and rods work well together for their certain need. b.) They get up with an expert on the subject and that expert has the patience to listen and really see what that person really needs, not what they want to sell them. c.) The person does a lot of research and asking around and even tries out different combos with friends out on the water. e.) The person takes a pilgrimage and travels to several or many different shops that allow demoing the rods. f.) The person has the money to just buy what the feel they need, try it out and even use it for a while, then sell it (taking a hit on the price) and continuing buying other combos, lines, rods, etc, until they get exactly what feels best for them.

I think there are quite a few factors that stops this search for the perfect fit for the majority of one's needs in a certain rod. a.) They just get plain lucky on the 1st try (or 1st few tries). b.) They don't have quite the experience they feel they need to pick out the right thing, so they end up relying on someone else and buying what was recommended to them. c.) It finally clicks about several rods and lines and it happens for them. d.) They don't really care and are just ok with whatever they have. e.) They don't know any better and just pick what someone tells them to get. f.) They end up buying what they can afford and settling on an idea that they have to be happy with that cause that's all they can afford. g.) They buy only the most expensive of rods and lines thinking that (money) will solve their dilemma. h.) They buy only the best and/or most expensive because they don't want anyone to look down on them (sort of like a peir pressure thing). i.) They buy the best hoping they will grow into it. j.) They buy the cheapest hoping they wouldn't get hurt financially if they don't like it. They buy the cheaper side knowing they will upgrade later. k.) They buy the cheapest cause they just don't care what they use. l.) They find that happy medium where the "value" fits how the rod and line feels right to them for what they will intend on using it for and not be concerned if it is the best rod out there or not (according to what the market says is the best rod). 

My recommendation for these people are that they put in their dues, spend the time researching, reading reviews, asking the experts first hand, asking people who are unbias (hard to find these days), Asking people who have real experience in the field with it (not just internet experts that may or may not have caught 1 or 2 fish with it), testing out different rods and lines and actually fishing a few of them and getting the right setup for what they really need, that feels really good to them, that has good warranty on it and is within their budget that they can afford, even if it sits for a while on the rod rack (which a 10wt might just do that). In other words, finding the best value (quality vs price) that feels the best to them and will work best for most of their fishing situations for that particular rod.

I also recommend settling on the reel you want to use. This is where you want a decent drag. Not necessarily the best drag system, like on a big tarpon rig, but a good one for sure. I like to have a 10wt with between 200-250yrds of 30lb backing (like Cortland Micron (or the equivalent). Again, not to sound like a broken record, but I'm not concern about weight on this reel and tend to lean a little heavier instead of ultra light reels for this rod, but that's up to you.

Ultamately, a good dealer will have several "GOOD" lines to demo with, to see how the rod performance changes with different lines. Also try to demo an full intermediate sink line if possible as well. I

f the flyline is already decided on you you have it already, bring it to the demos, preferably on the reel you chose. Have a good leader system make and installed on the flyline. Tie in a loop at the end of the tippet. Then take a fly the size you will mostly use on the 10wt, that is more wind resistant than just a piece of fuzz on the end of your line, like a decent size mullet fly with the bend of the hook clipped off the shank of the hook. Usually the shop owners will frown on a heavy lead weight fly as a demo fly tester. So I'd take some 20lb whatever (mono, FC...) and tie in a loop knot to the fly and then a large loop about 6-12" from the fly on the 20lb leader, big enough to easily pass the fly thru it. That way, the fly can be quickly installed and taken off between rod demos.

Ask NOT to demo on a parking lot. The dirt and gravel is a good way to mess up the line quickly and effect the performance of the rod. Clean cut grass is easiest to demo on. If you can bring a laundry hamper to set on the ground, that will help keep your flyline tangle free and make things happen quicker for the both of you. Your fly shop guy will understand. Ultimately, if that have a casting pond to try them out on, that is more of an ideal realistic situation, since "water tells the truth!"

Finally, If you haven't cast or fished with a 10wt, it's a different animal for sure. It will make sense and be worth the hour time and investment on getting with a good fly casting instructor and allowing him to show you the difference you might need to make in your casting stroke to be effective. Because the variable can change when you are struggling with you casting a rod like that and then purchase a rod you think will work, then you either continue to struggle or dramatically improve your casting and then figure out that the rod you chose wasn't all that great and found that you casting stroke wasn't all that great to begin with. So having some casting improvements done like that before you go demo rods might dramatically effect the decisions you make based on feel and performances.

Well anyway, good luck with it! 

Ted Haas


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

yes - sorry - I was using the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper on all of them and a Nautilus NVG 9/10 reel.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

If you're looking at 10 weights, I assume you're planning on pursuing reasonably large/strong fish. Check the rods out for more than just casting ability, try to test them for how well you can pressure a fish with them. If you can tie the end of the line to a scale/boga, have somebody hold it, ,back off a bit and lean into the rod doing the down and dirty to see how much pressure you can apply. I was doing some "lifting" with my 10 weight yesterday and was pretty easily gettin 15 pounds of pressure.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Definitely consider what you use your 10wt for -- I actually never use mine with an intermediate line.

It's my keys permit rod (throwing heavy crabs) and my LA redfish rod (throwing big ugly streamers). So, being able to slow down and throw awkward flies and in inclement conditions was most important to me.


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## Tarp0nTime (Apr 7, 2017)

MSG said:


> Thought I should copy this and start a new post - I originally responded in the scott meridian thread:
> 
> Well..... I threw the nrx pro 1, meridian 2 piece and 4 piece and the orris helios H2 - all in 10 wt back to back today. Very good and also very frustrating - they were all great.
> I was really taken with the orvis - it is so light and easy, and had more balls that I thought it would. My loops were very tight with it - my only concern is that on the water in a wind - I may want little more oomph, but shooting to 80 feet required very little effort.
> ...


Get the Pro1...you know you want it.


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## Will Poston (Dec 26, 2016)

Love my Helios 2 10 wt. It is so light and castable. makes long blind casting sessions very easy.


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## Robert Anderson (Jan 30, 2019)

Backwater said:


> This is the one rod that can be a PITA. Most people who use a 10wt don't realize it, but they are doing more bling casting with it than sight casting. Throwing a few demo rods for a few casts doesn't do the whole 10wt thing any justice. Try fishing with one a half day and your thoughts might change. I've done some ridiculously long threads on the subject (you can do a search if you are bored and want to screw up your brain on the subject (as well as my thoughts on 1 piece 10wts)).
> 
> Bottom line is, in a 10wt, I like the rod to have more flex in it (be mindful that I love an extra fast rod from 6-8wts). It helps to make those heavier lines easier to throw longer. Otherwise, in a 10wt, ultra fast also = stiff, which can wear some people out in about 15mins. If you're a casting stud, you get what I'm saying after about an 1.5hrs blind casting the thing. So I start leaning to a rod that I wouldn't normally consider in the lighter weights. Slower tips and or more progressive flow to the rod, instead of a piece of stiff dry spaghetti noodle.
> 
> ...


I joined just to THANK YOU for the single best answer I have ever read on the freaking inter-web as far as unbiased and helping a fellow enthusiast out. I'm shopping for a 10WT for roosters in Baja, and not so much into "micro-skiffs," but good on you man!


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## mightyrime (Jul 18, 2016)

10wt is the main rod we use here in California for Yellowtail and big calico bass. I throw a 450g sinking line with 3/0 flies all day long on a 10wt and man you are tired at the end of the day. Also the 10wt needs to have very good pulling power. A 20lb yellowtail is no joke. I know they get up to 40lbs which if i ever hook, i dont know if i could land on a 10wt.
Anyway we look for stiffer 10wts here with good backbone. Many of the really nice casting 10wts for flats applications dont work great here... Some notes below

Very good california 10wts.
Sage Xi3
Sage Salt HD
Loomis NRX
Hardy Zephrus
Hardy proaxis
Loomis cc glx
Echo EPR
Echo 3 Salt


10wts that cast great but dont fight great for blue water
Orvis Recon
Orvis H2
Sage X
Scott s4s


10wts that cast terrible but fight ok
Reddington predator
Sage motive

Cheap rod that works well for this
Echo boost.

my 2 cents


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

actually an update - after throwing them all I bought an Asquith 10 wt - I think it was better than all of them in virtually every way - for me at least. More feel, less weight, more punch.


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Lots of good posts here. Most important consideration might be the particular application you have for the rod. There’s lots of difference between throwing a tarpon fly and a big bulky weighted fly. Also lots of difference between making a few casts as fish present themselves and blind casting for most of a day.

So it kinda comes down to what fish, what fly, and how much casting. About 10 weight is where the rig starts wearing you down, even if you are a stout young guy. If you will cast the rig a lot in one day you have to pay attention to casting ease of your outfit.


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