# Home built boats



## jglidden (Feb 13, 2014)

I'm mostly here for the incoming comments. BUT as a someone building a skiff I understand what you are saying yet feel that the majority of materials being used are the same or comparable to what is being used by production skiff companies. 
I have no first hand knowledge of build practices from production skiff companies but I assume based on conversations from people who do have that knowledge (previous production skiff builders and engineering buddies) that the practices being encouraged by Chris Morejohn and other home builders are acceptable in terms of integrity and longevity.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Actually that's how some fiberglass doors are made.

You don't seem to fully understand the process. It seems chaotic, but once covered in glass it solidifies the entire structure so it does not matter how many parts are used. With there being a core you typically end up with a much stronger and lighter hull then you can get from a hull made of just glass and popped out of a mold. Not to mention you can get a superior hull for a fraction of the cost most times. 

I think amost no one builds there own hull with resale in mind. It's to get exactly what you want, build better then a production boat, lighter, and the ultimate cool factor to say you did it. 

The last part still surprises me, I still get stopped at the ramp or bait shop each time we go out. Guys are extremely impressed when they find out you built it.


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## Fritz (Jan 17, 2017)

I definitely agree with you.. I think the government should get involved, this should not be allowed! I demand an investigation, but first we must act decisively, and rashly.

And I really think we should ban miniature dachshunds! You can’t trust ‘em, the little wiener dogs, half a dog tall and two long, it’s not right... it;s just not right!

Also, I want the letter M stricken from the alphabet.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Most home built skiffs have a complete core, foam or wood. Production skiffs have foam core but the foam is typically just cut and laid on the skin coat where there are voids and the seperate pieces are just laid next to each other instead of being glued or epoxied before they either hand lay glass or infuse it. So when you look at it, home built skiffs are actually built a little stronger than a lot of production skiffs. After going over to @bryson house and putting my hands on it, i'd trust that skiff just as much as any purchased skiff out there.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Firecat. I’m sure the glass skin of a door is not produced from a few guys rolling glass over wood. I’m sure the skin is a preformed skin attached to a wood structure. This isn’t meant as an insult. I really do appreciate craftsmanship. I just question if a few buddies are building a better hull than let’s say Beavertail or Hells bay. Would I like to build one. Hell yes. Have at it. Love to see one. Seems wrong, that’s why I’m asking.


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## Tigweld (Oct 26, 2017)

Capnredfish, you should tell Paul Spencer he is doing it wrong


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

I would say as someone having a Conchfish built by Travis on here that I can get the same type of skiff in the case of the HB eldora for almost a third of the price that'll by alot of tackle. And in the end you know exactly who's working on the boat every day it's not Like Kevin or Mel are personally building each boat even though they're probably overseeing it as that's their reputation.


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

Cost, Customization and self accomplishment/pride. Same feeling you get when you catch a redfish on your own compared with a guide. Individuals on this forum have the talent and capabilities to build and so they do so.

As for the first steps of a mold I would be all for a conchfish microskiff mold hull and cap!


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

These home built boats are built with epoxy. Most producers are using polyester.

Lighter, stronger boats with epoxy.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Tigweld said:


> Capnredfish, you should tell Paul Spencer he is doing it wrong


....or the folks @ Buddy Davis, Jarrett Bay, Shearline Boatworks, Paul Mann---the list is endless. As others have said, most of these one-offs are far stronger/ lighter than any production boat coming out of a mold w/ the exception being those production boats that are being built using kevlar, carbon inegra, and using infusion techniques. Quite frankly, Ive always looked at those being akin to driving a Ferrari that can run 300mph in the middle of New York City rush traffic--for the most part, it's just overkill and not needed.

That being said, if / when I ever complete one, I am hoping to get my ex to put it thru its first runs in case everything flies to hell.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2019)

It’s just old school boat building. These guys are all doing great work and take a lot of pride in what they are doing. Most of them have plenty of guidance from the designer to help them along the way. If you’ve never been on a fully cored “wood or foam” skiff, find one and take a ride! It is a totally different feeling, the boat just feels good under foot.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Yep, the plethora of custom builders in North Carolina as well as Stuart, Florida (or Pompano Beach in the case of Merritt) have been producing seaworthy, high performance one-offs for years. Go to Pirate's Cove Marina, Oregon Inlet or a South Florida sailfish tournament and you'll see many still in rugged use years after being splashed. And although they haven't been around quite as long there are still plenty of Bayshores, Willy Roberts and other semi-custom flats boats in operation. 

You get economy of scale with production builds and regimented quality control ideally. But it's still not the attention to detail and individual customization that you get with a "home build" or custom boatworks. I applaud the members on here doing it themselves and they'll have a quality product as a result!


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

@Capnredfish Are you talking about the difference between an "amateur" builder and a "professional" builder, or about the difference in building essentially a cold-molded boat vs. building from a mold?

If you're talking about amateur vs professional, I can assure you there's no magic that happens once you start referring to yourself as a professional. If you're talking about building methods, as a mechanical engineer that is also building a boat, I feel like I'm fairly qualified to respond, although I don't have heaps of experience with boat-building specifically. My predicable engineer response: "It depends."

Just like any other home-built projects from furniture to airplanes, it's completely dependent on the builder. I agree with you that I would be extremely hesitant buying a home-built boat from someone I didn't know, unless maybe they had meticulous photos and documentation that it was built to a certain standard. It's too easy to cut corners that can be hidden in the end product. The same holds true for production boats, but they stand to lose a lot more if their shortcuts are uncovered, so they have rigorous in-process inspections to prevent mistakes.

If built correctly, boats built from foam (like many are doing with the Conchfish) can be a stronger/stiffer or lighter product than a comparable production boat. Like @mtoddsolomon mentioned -- look at the core locations in a typical layup. A cored composite (sandwich) structure is extremely stiff/strong for its weight. On many home builds you are constructing the entire boat this way rather than the just large flat areas. The floor and bulkheads are made separately and become part of the structure, rather than a drop-in cockpit like many mfgs do (although they still typically bond the tub pretty well). Also, like @trekker said, epoxy is used on lots of home builds. Epoxy has significantly better adhesion than poly on secondary bonds, and doesn't require the use of a chop strand mat (saving weight and bulk).

Probably the biggest allure for me is that I can outfit the boat exactly how I want, and I know exactly how the construction was performed. For example, it's amazing to me how many boats come rigged with self-tapping screws everywhere. Some into core, some go into straight glass, and some may be driven into epoxy slugs, but in my opinion they are all a shortcut to some extent, one that I can refuse to take on my skiff. Same story for drain plugs and any other through-hulls, engine bolts, wire saddles, etc.

Basically what it boils down to is that I am the "company owner" and I am the customer. A small dry section of laminate or a tiny air bubble that may go unnoticed or covered up on a production line will be absolutely unacceptable on my boat. I can hold myself to exacting standards because I'm going to be the one that has to live with the boat when I'm finished. I'm the one that's going to have to fix things when they break. Imagine you're a layup guy on a boat-builder's production floor. How will the quality of your work change if you are laying up the hull with your name on it? How about if the CEO was looking over your shoulder?

Anyway, a little rambling there, but there are advantages and disadvantages to each construction method. In my opinion, the absolute most important thing is that the builder(s) must be *informed*, *disciplined*, and *able*. This holds true in your garage or in a production facility, and it applies to much more than just boat building.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

@Capnredfish Not saying thehulltruth has its fair share of characters but there is some really cool stuff:
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boatin...uild-thread-40-lightspeed-elle-quatre-14.html
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/666855-calcutta-47-5-big-ass-cat.html (Built using similar techniques to home builders)
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/826076-berky-40-carbon-catamaran-55.html


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Capnredfish said:


> Firecat. I’m sure the glass skin of a door is not produced from a few guys rolling glass over wood. I’m sure the skin is a preformed skin attached to a wood structure.


Sir you would be mistaken. I used to order custom doors. Plenty of cheap stock ones that were popped from molds, but not the better quality customs.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Are there one or two downsides to building your own small skiff? Yes there are... but they’re far outweighed by the advantages.

I actually know a bit about how most production boats are built - and most are far from perfect. Take your choice.


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Bryson and others see things as I have. 
I built my first boat for several reasons. First, because I wanted to see an idea of mine floating. Second, was out of necessity because I could not afford a store bought one, and third because I wanted to know every inch of her.
The best performing sail or powerboats on the water today built to win or be the best are built in the same method as all the CONCHFISH skiffs being built today. It’s a time proven method that if followed will produce a far superior hull build than a production built skiff.

One of The problems I see today in many of the top skiff company’s that are infusing their hulls using core throughout and carbon or eglass in the interiors is that they are not building to time proven methods. They are side stepping procedures that will insure future hull failures. Because all the CONCHFISH builders are building in the one-off method they are insuring that they will have the best hulls built.
What’s happening is that when you build by hand one step at a time you take the time to taper all the core edges. What this does is to ensure the cloth has no hard edges to go over. But I see many top end skiff companies side step this absolutely necessary step in the haste and I feel ignorance to get hulls out the door quickly.
I say ignorance as I know that many of the owners of top store bought skiff companies have never built a skiff using their own hands ever. They are salespeople first and shop owners next.
When you see a completely cored hull that has been infused with the very expensive carbon inner skin being pulled down over the untapered cores sharpe edge this shows lack of care, and just absolutely bad building practices. The carbon or eglass skin will fracture along all these untapped edges over time. The inner skin lamination is more important than the outer skin as it’s being pushing against all the time. These fracture will not be seen at first but will show up over time as exterior stress cracks.
I can go on from here on what I see going on by these same company’s with the rest of the build. It’s a great business for the guys that fix these skiffs for the second and on owners.
The best things in the world are built by human hands. 
The best boats in the world are built by people who care.
I make a fuss over details because I like to win, be the best I can be and to sleep peacefully knowing that my builds are going to be there for the long haul.


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

Capnredfish said:


> I see a lot of threads of these boats built from plans. Not to offend anyone as I truly appreciate someone building something by hand. But why would someone want a skiff made of all kinds of materials, glued, nailed, screwed, taped and wedged together. Then covered over with resin and glass, sanded and painted. To me it seems like a lot of coverup. Something you would hate to uncover in a purchased boat. It seems more like first step in making a mold for a hull except it ends up being the hull. Explain if you like. No explanation owed to me. I build things myself too. Just curious. You wouldn’t build a front door out of scraps then glass and paint it.


@Capnredfish - To each his own. Keep buying production boats.

I enjoy the process of making things with my own hands. I assemble my own rods. I used to tie my own flies. I've made my own vacuum infused carbon kayak paddles. I've built my own CNC 5' x 9' router table. I've built my own microskiff. As you can probably tell, I enjoy the process as much as the results. I don't go itno any of these endeavors expecting to get mytime & money back. *HOWEVER... In everyone of these activities I have built something better than I can buy and customized to my tastes and needs. *On some of them I may have saved some money, but if you factor in the tools and time, then someone could easily argue I lost money. In the end I have an item and the tools to make just about whatever I want and probably just as important I have the knowledge & tools to make any repairs and improve the next creation.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

With some of the garbage I’ve seen people pay top dollar for I can assure you these guys are doing things much better.


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## ChaisinTails (Jul 16, 2019)

I’ve never liked buying something that I can make myself. There’s just a pride to that. I also REALLY don’t like spending more money than needed! So yea, I’m cheap.

But with my skiff I’m building, I wanted something specific. I wanted it to fit in my 20ft garage, I wanted a true shallow water skiff, wanted it to be a manageable 1 person boat but able to take a second person if I wanted to, I wanted certain design details, I wanted certain things done simply or minimalist. And even more importantly, I wanted to be able to know how it’s built, how to take care of it, and how to repair it. And since I was able to get all those things, along with saving $10-15k, building over time as funds come available and not having to take out a loan...I decided to challenge myself and build my own. There were several companies providing close to what I wanted, but not exactly, and certainly not at the price point I could build for.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I think many miss my point. Regardless. I appreciate anyone taking on a project like this. I have seen so many pictures of pieces of fit together materials and then just glassed over with more goop to smooth it out. I’m sure many are built amazingly well. I too build things. I just find it hard to believe an average joe will build a better hull than Spear, Drake, HB, Beavertail just to name a few. Truly good glass work requires experience. As does wood working. Keep at it. I’m just saying from looking at pictures of builds it just wouldn’t pass my OCD test.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2019)

Stringers busted loose, cracked bonding putty used as fillets, leaking caps to hulls, rub rails falling off, poor wiring terminations, leaky live wells, cockpits that don’t drain, are all complaints I have seen/heard from members of this forum and the skiffs they have purchased! I WILL not talk about the companies/persons that build them but just do some searching and see for yourself. Unfortunately, it is the share holders that dictate quality control “or the lack thereof” these days! If you have ocd then maybe you should consider building a one off! Just sayin bro!


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Capnredfish said:


> I think many miss my point. Regardless. I appreciate anyone taking on a project like this. I have seen so many pictures of pieces of fit together materials and then just glassed over with more goop to smooth it out. I’m sure many are built amazingly well. I too build things. I just find it hard to believe an average joe will build a better hull than Spear, Drake, HB, Beavertail just to name a few. Truly good glass work requires experience. As does wood working. Keep at it. I’m just saying from looking at pictures of builds it just wouldn’t pass my OCD test.


I agree -- I don't think that an average Joe will build a skiff better than the high-end manufacturers, but I do think that it's extremely possible to do so, even in a garage and on a budget. I firmly believe mine will be better in many aspects, however it will be "old school" in that there will be no exotic materials. I think that if you looked over the shoulder of many (definitely not all) manufacturers during the course of a build, you might find a lot that doesn't pass your test either. That's one advantage of building it yourself. Your standards can be as high as you would like. Same reason I prefer not to hire a contractor to work on my house, and the same reason I don't take my vehicles to a shop.

I'm curious to know though, what are the specific hurdles for you when it comes to the home built boats? I'm not trying to change your mind, and definitely not trying to convince you that every home built is better than a production boat (they clearly aren't), just genuinely curious as to your concerns. I've racked my brain to think of possible deficiencies to the build process so that I can avoid or mitigate them. My personal goal is to have a skiff that is better than a production boat.

There are clear advantages to one-off vs. production-level manufacturing, and there are clear advantages to having the $$ to make molds from CNC plugs, to infuse resin, and to use exotic materials. The more I learn about each method, the better I will be at overcoming any disadvantages for my build. That's why I like discussions like this.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

bryson said:


> I agree -- I don't think that an average Joe will build a skiff better than the high-end manufacturers, but I do think that it's extremely possible to do so, even in a garage and on a budget. I firmly believe mine will be better in many aspects, however it will be "old school" in that there will be no exotic materials. I think that if you looked over the shoulder of many (definitely not all) manufacturers during the course of a build, you might find a lot that doesn't pass your test either. That's one advantage of building it yourself. Your standards can be as high as you would like. Same reason I prefer not to hire a contractor to work on my house, and the same reason I don't take my vehicles to a shop.
> 
> I'm curious to know though, what are the specific hurdles for you when it comes to the home built boats? I'm not trying to change your mind, and definitely not trying to convince you that every home built is better than a production boat (they clearly aren't), just genuinely curious as to your concerns. I've racked my brain to think of possible deficiencies to the build process so that I can avoid or mitigate them. My personal goal is to have a skiff that is better than a production boat.
> 
> There are clear advantages to one-off vs. production-level manufacturing, and there are clear advantages to having the $$ to make molds from CNC plugs, to infuse resin, and to use exotic materials. The more I learn about each method, the better I will be at overcoming any disadvantages for my build. That's why I like discussions like this.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

There are no hurdles if I were to do one. The core material would have to be done perfectly. Would not want to gloop crap all over it to make it smooth. Strictly off interweb pictures is why I question the process. I’m not against the process at all. Matter of fact I wish I had time and space.
Is an 8 week build from a manufacturer considered a production boat? There is a lot of hands on craftsmanship there.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

How would you make the core perfectly smooth without “gloop crap”?
I would love to build one later in life when my son is old enough to help me and appreciate the process.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2019)

Capnredfish said:


> There are no hurdles if I were to do one. The core material would have to be done perfectly. Would not want to gloop crap all over it to make it smooth. Strictly off interweb pictures is why I question the process. I’m not against the process at all. Matter of fact I wish I had time and space.
> Is an 8 week build from a manufacturer considered a production boat? There is a lot of hands on craftsmanship there.


Even the “infused” hulls have gloop crap in them. Watch the process and you will see that the core is scored to allow resin and air flow. This scoring fills with un thickened unreinforced resin. Many of the home builders are filling the voids with thickened and reinforced resin.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Capnredfish said:


> There are no hurdles if I were to do one. The core material would have to be done perfectly. Would not want to gloop crap all over it to make it smooth. Strictly off interweb pictures is why I question the process. I’m not against the process at all. Matter of fact I wish I had time and space.
> Is an 8 week build from a manufacturer considered a production boat? There is a lot of hands on craftsmanship there.


Is the "gloop crap", your're referring to by any chance thickened epoxy, fairing, or gorilla glue? If so, I'm not quite sure you understand the process. Those are parts of the puzzle to get to a finished core. Without it you'd have large gaps and your glass work wouldn't look as good. 

So when I do build my boat, I'm going to have "gloop crap" in every crack and crevice so that after sanding my core looks as perfect as I can. Then I'll lay glass followed by more "gloop crap" before sanding and painting. Then I'l paint and have a yacht quality finish that I would put up against any Hells Bay, Drake, Chittium, East Cape, or Beavertail out there. 

This is all coming from a very happy east cape owner, that also happens to have an engineering degree and work in the construction industry. I think you may have fallen into a trap where people see these beautiful homes/cars/boats finished but typically don't see the ugly parts behind the scenes of how it got there.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

mtoddsolomon said:


> I think you may have fallen into a trap where people see these beautiful homes/cars/boats finished but typically don't see the ugly parts behind the scenes of how it got there.


 This is the TRUTH!!!!!


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## Flats Raider (Jul 25, 2017)

In a word: CRAFTSMANSHIP


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

as you know skiffs have many compound angles. the home builder using CM's plans and methods uses strips to get the shape and has to fill in small gaps with epoxy or fiberglass putty before glassing.

the production builder using a mold lays in sheets and fills in the gaps with chunks and pieces roughly cut to fit. The gaps then can be even larger and are just filled with resin during the vac process (as far as I can tell). I don't see much difference.

as far as the laying of glass and resin I suspect you are right that the pros likely do a better job of keeping bubbles out and probably use less resin and get a nicer finish than most first time home builders. they also mostly use gelcoat finish over paint, which to me is far superior.

the gelcoat is the biggest deal to me.


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## Tautog166 (Jul 7, 2018)

Think of a perfectly skim coated plaster wall. Nice and smooth. How much “gloop” was used in achieving that finish? Lots of “gloop” and lots of sanding between coats.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

8 weeks is pretty fast turn around production. Most good builders will have a 12 to 16 week turn around from what I've seen.
I have seen very few production boats that didn't make my OCD tick. And I would rather have goop in between the core parts then just infused resin, which is much weaker. I'd also much rather have more goop on spread on top of my hull, then ever have gelcoat, which is inherently weak and porous.


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## Tommy1 (Mar 3, 2016)

If one is more concerned about the gaps filled with resin paste, bead and cove foam strips can drastically reduce the filler and leave a core that is a much greater % foam.

It may make a small difference in weight. I doubt noticeable. And with the epoxy skins on both sides done to spec, failure of the laminate will not happen. These builds are absolutely structurally sound.

With youtube and forum communities like this, there are a lot of do it yourself people who will be successful with their builds. Experience may help with cosmetics, but time and a little OCD will get a near perfect finish. 

As far as craftsmanship at companies is concerned, 99%+ of buyers have no idea how much experience the team who built their boat has, and experience does not equal skill. An experienced eye can pick apart multiple flaws on a boat from ANY manufacturer.


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## Indoman (Jul 25, 2013)

“...but time and a little OCD...”. That’s my game plan.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I think I’ve done a poor job explaining myself.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2019)

Capnredfish said:


> I think I’ve done a poor job explaining myself.


Try again brother!​


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I can’t do it. Dug too deep of a hole. 
In short I’ve seen wooden boats built and joinery was amazing. Seen many builds(pics)where I’m not so impressed and it all gets filled and glassed, sanded and filled. Sanded some more. That’s why I question the integrity of this type of build. That’s a lot of gaps filled and covered. I guess it’s all in the craftsmanship. Prep is everything. Starts with great wood work.

Remember my post was not directed at anyone on here or any other forum. I can’t even name someone building one on any forums. Keep going on the builds. I wish I could get the opportunity to build a boat. Maybe one day I’ll make it happen.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

firecat1981 said:


> 8 weeks is pretty fast turn around production. Most good builders will have a 12 to 16 week turn around from what I've seen.
> I have seen very few production boats that didn't make my OCD tick. And I would rather have goop in between the core parts then just infused resin, which is much weaker. I'd also much rather have more goop on spread on top of my hull, then ever have gelcoat, which is inherently weak and porous.


rub a gelcoat hull against a dock and then a painted hull and tell me which you prefer.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2019)

Capnredfish said:


> I can’t do it. Dug too deep of a hole.
> In short I’ve seen wooden boats built and joinery was amazing. Seen many builds(pics)where I’m not so impressed and it all gets filled and glassed, sanded and filled. Sanded some more. That’s why I question the integrity of this type of build. That’s a lot of gaps filled and covered. I guess it’s all in the craftsmanship. Prep is everything. Starts with great wood work.
> 
> Remember my post was not directed at anyone on here or any other forum. I can’t even name someone building one on any forums. Keep going on the builds. I wish I could get the opportunity to build a boat. Maybe one day I’ll make it happen.


Where are you located? Maybe I can show and tell what is actually goin on with the goop? Hard to explain...


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

The lam process and materials aren't too complicated if you have plans to follow. I have shaped and glassed 2 surfboards from start to finish and the thought of building a boat seems overwhelming. The second board came out significantly better because I learned from the mistakes on the first one. I will say under or over mixing resin, the depth of the container you mix in, along with room temperature can cause big problems. For those using epoxy there is a period of time where you can achieve a chemical bond on following layers. Past a certain time its just a mechanical bond. Epoxy is also funny with fish eyes and little air bubbles.

I think the biggest difference between the garage builder and the professional is going to be fit and finish, hatches, liners..... That's a tradeoff most are willing to make to save big $. 

If the boat is going to have a structural failure due to the build process I would expect to see it fairly quick.


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

Capnredfish said:


> 2006 Beavertail B2. I miss a front hatch. Don’t like the bulkhead hatch because I hate plastic hatches. I can access up there pretty well if needed. Another past owner said it’s impossible. Not fun. But possible.
> Rigging going through big rubber boot. Would love to have each item like throttle, fuel, wiring through a specifically manufactured boot or seal of some sort.
> 
> Near 90 degree fuel fill. Doesn’t work. Over flows or shuts pump off. Gas can works easier.
> ...


It’s funny that you say this shit about home built skiffs, yet you have one of those “higher end” skiffs and you have all these issues. I can tell you that the hatches on my CF didn’t leak and that was without seals (no I didn’t build them, Boatbrains did) Rigging ran through separate tubes, mhmm us home builders can do that.

Guess you had to skimp out on a front hatch, probably costed a couple more thousand.. but what’s a little more added on to that 30-40k boat. on the other hand, I could lay down (6’2 250) in the front hatch of my CF. 


Carry on


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## Fishtex (May 10, 2014)

There is no point in responding to someone who has no idea of how boats are designed and built, production, small volume, one off. 

I was taught to “ don’t ask questions unless you know the answer” - the idea is you research, get some background and eliminate all the “static” in the communication so you can get down to the substance. 

I work in aerospace, etc., I’ve worked with composite engineers on aircraft, space flight components, like the Space Shuttle, and guess what, there is some “goop” involved, whatever the fuck the op was referencing I don’t know, but he’s clueless and should do some research before wasting peoples time. Do some research and then ask. Most likely most of the questions would have already been answered. 

Boats built in molds generally can be pretty sloppy, excess resin, cheap polyester, chop, etc. As the price goes up you get some better materials, maybe vinylester resin, no chop strand, as the price increases. (90+% are not vacuum bagging.)But to think that these processes are superior to one off hand built boats is way, way, off base. 

Not trying to be a dick but the tone of the op’s posts came off as a troll. You can build a better boat at home than you can at any OEM, but, and it’s a big but, it’s all about design and process. 

No offense, Sorry for the rant, YMMV, I’m going to have some aged rum. Flame on!


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

Oh and if you could see what goes into building “production “ skiffs behind the scenes, you probably wouldn’t have. 

And most boats start off this way, as a plug. HB#1 or 2 was a plug and is still around. And there are plenty of homemade boats still around outlasting these production boats.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2019)

Travis Smith said:


> Oh and if you could see what goes into building “production “ skiffs behind the scenes, you probably wouldn’t have.
> 
> And most boats start off this way, as a plug. HB#1 or 2 was a plug and is still around. And there are plenty of homemade boats still around outlasting these production boats.


I still have nightmares of the inner workings of the “production” life!


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## Fishtex (May 10, 2014)

BTW, the rum is Foursquare Premise......you got to try this if you’re a rum aficionado.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2019)

While not a “high end”, if I were ever in the market for a skiff I would call up Mel at Ankona myself! They don’t try to tell you they are the “best” and their boats are great skiffs for the $ that do what they say they do without all the hype that digs deep into your wallet! JMHO


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2019)

Oh, and don’t get me started on fit “n” finish! I would hate to have to upload all the pics that “you guys” have sent me with a “wtf” below them of these “production” and “top tier” skiffs! 


I won’t, so don’t ask! I just wish they would all straighten up their QC departments a bit for the customer’s sake...


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

devrep said:


> as you know skiffs have many compound angles. the home builder using CM's plans and methods uses strips to get the shape and has to fill in small gaps with epoxy or fiberglass putty before glassing.
> 
> the production builder using a mold lays in sheets and fills in the gaps with chunks and pieces roughly cut to fit. The gaps then can be even larger and are just filled with resin during the vac process (as far as I can tell). I don't see much difference.
> 
> ...


So why couldn't gel coat be sprayed on the outside instead of paint if that is desired? 

Besides this observation, I think the guys building these core-hull beauties are absolutely the vanguard of the sport. The deal about the core gaps filled with "goop" disregards how production skiffs are made with the core laid in to a gel-coated mold, using bonding putty which adds weight and is "goop" also. So there is not the continuity of material that runs longitudinally along the boat's axis. So there really is no way that can be really stronger. *I think what is being missed here by OP is that the core strips are actually bonded NOT HAPHAZARDLY WITH GAPS ON THE LONGITUDINAL PLANE but rather in a carefully pre-determined and executed adherence to longitudinal continuity. *The glue or thickened epoxy media that joins the foam strips [core material] is actually stronger than the core foam itself. So many carefully planned and executed joints running the length of the hull and un-interrupted would then HAVE TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY STRONGER THAN CORE LAID IN WITH BIG GAPS RUNNING TRANSVERSELY, AND JUST RESIN INFUSED ON CORE THAT IS SCORED TO PERMIT RESIN FLOW ACROSS CORE. 

Thinking of these joints within the core system as a proxy matrix, look at the cleanliness and order of the core joints on these home-builts. With proper laminating schedule, you would have a clearly superior hull with regards to multi-directional strength vs weight. I suspect that possibly even a superior feel to the hull as it takes on stresses from wave energy absorption as well, due to the matrix of strengthening joints under the glass that would take those stresses and distribute them via distributed loading. The extra care taken by the builder to radius all edges slightly so as to not point-stress the glass across those points is just icing on the cake. 

Now I am not an expert on doing this having never built a boat of my own (yet). So take all this with a big grain of salt. But analyzing all of this logically the above points do become apparent. My main point of contention in building my own is that I don't have a good area to do it in. IF I could find a good place to build it that was not too exposed to excessive humidity I would definitely build my own. Someday I do intend to do so. Having built surfboards and done much boat repair, I have no problem working with the media at all. BUT I would want to build a 20' tunnel hull skiff, and I do not think there are plans out there for a boat like that. So I may have to learn how to make my own plans. Probably a difficult thing to do I would imagine. Maybe CM will take on this challenge?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Man you guys got your panties in a bunch real quick. Some people have to see and use things first hand to believe. I wouldn't get too worked up.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Travis Smith said:


> It’s funny that you say this shit about home built skiffs, yet you have one of those “higher end” skiffs and you have all these issues. I can tell you that the hatches on my CF didn’t leak and that was without seals (no I didn’t build them, Boatbrains did) Rigging ran through separate tubes, mhmm us home builders can do that.
> 
> Guess you had to skimp out on a front hatch, probably costed a couple more thousand.. but what’s a little more added on to that 30-40k boat. on the other hand, I could lay down (6’2 250) in the front hatch of my CF.
> 
> ...


I believe that thread was about things you don’t like, not what makes your boat built like a POS.
I would hardly call a Beavertail B2 from 06 a high end skiff. Built like a brick shit house? YES. I’m sure I could buy very expensive hatch latches, not Attwood or Perko. Front hatch was not offered. Of course I could pay a professional to add a hatch to match the existing finish. I do have rigging tubes, unseen as they are glassed in. I’m speaking of where all the rigging leaves boat deck, splash well area to reach motor. This issue is with any boat. On a car there are proper waterproof grommets passing through firewall for all wires and ac tubing etc. . That is something the marine industry doesn’t do. Some goes for home AC. They push pipes and wires out the wall, spray foam or use a shit load of caulk and call it sealed.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

el9surf said:


> Man you guys got your panties in a bunch real quick. Some people have to see and use things first hand to believe. I wouldn't get too worked up.


Wow. I think someone gets it. I’ve seen a bunch of pics over the years of home built and it appears I see way too large of gaps just covered over. And I guess if I were to see one in person I would understand or appreciate them more. I am also fully aware of manufactured boats process as I really look at those and know very well how mine is done.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

What do you know? This image was in the random media this morning. This is looking much more professional. Sanding down this would practically be ready for paint. 

https://www.microskiff.com/media/img_2919.558/


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

Gaps in wood.. if you don’t have a gap when you go to glue it, you will get a dry spot. I dry spot causes the least little bit of shift. In turn that causes a crack.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Bob said:


> I've built my own CNC 5' x 9' router table.


I'd like to hear more about this!


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

yobata said:


> I'd like to hear more about this!


It's a kind of a DIY Shopbot somewhat based on a popular DIY system by Joe's CNC (https://www.joescnc.com/the-machines/evolution-page). Mine is very similar to this one (!!Warning!! - turn off your volume before watching the video...


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Dang. How much did that run?


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

firecat1981 said:


> Dang. How much did that run?


I probably have about $5-6K into it. New shopbots run ~$20+K, so just like a skiff, DIY can save a ton of cash & function just as well or better. Plus you know how to fix everything. I incorporated a vacuum hold down system for sheet goods which is a nice add-on.

The long story is I was freshly unemployed at the time I built it back ~2010 and was going to go into the custom seadek/hydroturf business with a friend. I got unlucky just as I finished the CNC build & was offered a desk jockey job that I couldn't refuse (but now I wish I had lol). So, it's just a hobby toy now & I can't seem to part with it yet. The custom seadek business is now saturated for the most part & I'm waiting for my next big idea to come.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Use it to CNC cut the foam for the CF builds. Once it is fine tuned, the CF builders would save a lot of time and filler.


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

Bob said:


> I probably have about $5-6K into it. New shopbots run ~$20+K, so just like a skiff, DIY can save a ton of cash & function just as well or better. Plus you know how to fix everything. I incorporated a vacuum hold down system for sheet goods which is a nice add-on.
> 
> The long story is I was freshly unemployed at the time I built it back ~2010 and was going to go into the custom seadek/hydroturf business with a friend. I got unlucky just as I finished the CNC build & was offered a desk jockey job that I couldn't refuse (but now I wish I had lol). So, it's just a hobby toy now & I can't seem to part with it yet. The custom seadek business is now saturated for the most part & I'm waiting for my next big idea to come.





sjrobin said:


> Use it to CNC cut the foam for the CF builds. Once it is fine tuned, the CF builders would save a lot of time and filler.


Maybe it's time for a "U-Brew" boat building biz... The biz supplies the hull, deck, hatch, etc. molds. You pay a royalty fee to the designer and mold rental to the biz. You buy the materials from the biz and schedule dates to come in and do the labor of laying it all up dry and then help with the infusion of the parts. Come back after the cure, pop everything, & then you take them home and finish it all on your own. A kit boat where you help make the kit. And/Or... as you mentioned supply some of the cut parts/materials to DIY'ers to save them time. You only need to start with $2 million for it to be a $1 million idea!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Bob said:


> Maybe it's time for a "U-Brew" boat building biz... The biz supplies the hull, deck, hatch, etc. molds. You pay a royalty fee to the designer and mold rental to the biz. You buy the materials from the biz and schedule dates to come in and do the labor of laying it all up dry and then help with the infusion of the parts. Come back after the cure, pop everything, & then you take them home and finish it all on your own. A kit boat where you help make the kit. And/Or... as you mentioned supply some of the cut parts/materials to DIY'ers to save them time. You only need to start with $2 million for it to be a $1 million idea!


Go for it Bob


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## Fritz (Jan 17, 2017)

@Bob I think there might be a market for a ‘quick build’ kit for the Conchfish. I mean if you can CNC all the stations, that takes out a great deal of the drudgery and gets a builder a really precise form to start with. The entire build is comprised if this first step is not done correctly.

There is a huge kit plane market that has sprung up over the past fifty of so years and this might be a model for where the home built skiff world might aspire. It started with people scratch building from plans, then manufacturers sprang up and began offering increasingly complex kits. There are a few rules, but generally the manufacturers don’t have much legal liability and home aircraft builders get the really important stuff built properly while still meeting the FAA definitions for home built.

And it’s turning out that much of the innovation and value comes from the Experimental/Kit built aircraft world. I’m amazed at the quality and functionality plus affordability these aircraft bring to the market.

I see a bright future for home built boats and you might talk to Chris, give him a cut and he can offer every plans buyer a chance to have perfect forms shipped to their door for just x$. After that you can see what other areas might lend themselves to a purchased shortcut.


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## Fritz (Jan 17, 2017)

Bob said:


> Maybe it's time for a "U-Brew" boat building biz... The biz supplies the hull, deck, hatch, etc. molds. You pay a royalty fee to the designer and mold rental to the biz. You buy the materials from the biz and schedule dates to come in and do the labor of laying it all up dry and then help with the infusion of the parts. Come back after the cure, pop everything, & then you take them home and finish it all on your own. A kit boat where you help make the kit. And/Or... as you mentioned supply some of the cut parts/materials to DIY'ers to save them time. You only need to start with $2 million for it to be a $1 million idea!


This is already being done in the airplane world! It’s a well established and successful business model.

And it kinda exists in boat building as well, but mostly just wooden boats I think. Check out Cheasepeake Light Craft, they offer quick build wooden kits and their stuff is high quality, but not cheap.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

For anyone who is interested, this guy has a series of tutorials on building a CNC machine. I have several friends who have successfully built these.....

Part 1






website:

http://www.davegatton.com/


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

Old school wooden boats (like pirate ships) would build to as tight of tolerances as they could, dump the boat in the water for a couple days so the wood would swell up and seal the joints, and where they still had leaks they filled it with tar or tree sap or something like that. They crossed the ocean a few times


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Fritz said:


> @Bob I think there might be a market for a ‘quick build’ kit for the Conchfish. I mean if you can CNC all the stations, that takes out a great deal of the drudgery and gets a builder a really precise form to start with. The entire build is comprised if this first step is not done correctly.
> 
> There is a huge kit plane market that has sprung up over the past fifty of so years and this might be a model for where the home built skiff world might aspire. It started with people scratch building from plans, then manufacturers sprang up and began offering increasingly complex kits. There are a few rules, but generally the manufacturers don’t have much legal liability and home aircraft builders get the really important stuff built properly while still meeting the FAA definitions for home built.
> 
> ...





Truth is the CONCHFISH plans and all my plans drawn out by my partner Nathan Shawl can all be cut out with a CNC machine. Or anyone that wants just has to enlarge the pdf files you have bought as the plans sheets and go to a printer and have them blown up full size. You then use theses as patterns.
I have held back from offering kits because I feel when you build a boat from a kit you are kinda like building an IKEA type product. You are essentially assembling a product 1/2 way built already.
Everyone that builds a skiff using my plans will be able to at the launching of their build be able to call themselves a true boatbuilder. You all will have built your boat from scratch. The guys that claim to have the best designed and built flats skiff in the world have themselves never built a boat from scratch. Other people have built their product.
So if you want to be boat assemblers then I can this winter offer up kits which will cost more because then I will have to pay someone else to do the work for you that you don’t want to try and do on your own.

On another note once I get to N.C. this winter I will publish all my info I find on sourcing materials, CNC shops, and how to buy in bulk to save building costs. With the amount of interest in homebuilders I have now I will do what I can to help lower the costs for you all. 

At present if you consider that an Eldora skiff is selling for around $30,000.00 and others builds for way more the 60 various skiff builds I have going on at present is a bite of at least 1-1/2 to 2.5 million out of store bought skiff sales at the least. 

There is a future for someone out there to set up CNC parts, and material kits for the new wave of home built skiffs. When the economy tightens homebuilders will increase.


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

I admire you Chris because you tell it like it is, your achievements are just a bonus.


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## SC on the FLY (Sep 16, 2015)

Chris Morejohn said:


> Truth is the CONCHFISH plans and all my plans drawn out by my partner Nathan Shawl can all be cut out with a CNC machine. Or anyone that wants just has to enlarge the pdf files you have bought as the plans sheets and go to a printer and have them blown up full size. You then use theses as patterns.
> I have held back from offering kits because I feel when you build a boat from a kit you are kinda like building an IKEA type product. You are essentially assembling a product 1/2 way built already.
> Everyone that builds a skiff using my plans will be able to at the launching of their build be able to call themselves a true boatbuilder. You all will have built your boat from scratch. The guys that claim to have the best designed and built flats skiff in the world have themselves never built a boat from scratch. Other people have built their product.
> So if you want to be boat assemblers then I can this winter offer up kits which will cost more because then I will have to pay someone else to do the work for you that you don’t want to try and do on your own.
> ...


i think an Ikea type kit would be a bonus to a lot of consumers. Most of us have families and lives that are fully scheduled and time is at a premium, knowing a project like this that would come with all the pieces and the correct materials everytime you walked out to the garage to work on would be a benefit to a lot of us in this age of instant gratification. I would think a lot of people would take advantage of this ,maybe more than the ones just buying plans. Ultimately it would need to be profitable to the person or company providing which might be the challenge ,just my 2cs


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

SC on the FLY said:


> i think an Ikea type kit would be a bonus to a lot of consumers. Most of us have families and lives that are fully scheduled and time is at a premium, knowing a project like this that would come with all the pieces and the correct materials everytime you walked out to the garage to work on would be a benefit to a lot of us in this age of instant gratification. I would think a lot of people would take advantage of this ,maybe more than the ones just buying plans. Ultimately it would need to be profitable to the person or company providing which might be the challenge ,just my 2cs


I will set this up this fall when I get to NC to build my 2 skiffs for my book. I have a few guys/shops offering to do this so will provide whatever is needed. You are right. Time is precious. 
I With my wife’s help are working on setting up a site or association of builders to help network the buying, trading of used jigs and leftover materials. Also I will be looking into how new builders can share costs of material bought in bulk. Polyester resign if bought by the drum can be very cost effective. Will save you the cost of the core instead of using epoxy resin. If buying core by the case it saves and so on.
Might be worth the drive to do this.
I am presently in Hilo Hawaii finishing a 57’ build of a sailing canoe. Will be done by November then I move to Mt. Olive NC to build my skiffs this winter. I will be working on them and setting up the CNC links.
Thanks for the input


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## paulrad (May 10, 2016)

I would imagine the satisfaction of fishing from a boat I built from scratch myself would be pretty incredible. But I I'd also imagine it would take A LOT of time an effort for someone that's never done it before. Especially if they're doing it themselves without an experienced buddy to help guide them along


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

How beneficial would attending one of the wooden boat workshops available at various places on the east coast be prior to taking this on? There is a 1-week course for about $850 that I know of that seems to cover a lot of the skills needed with a Conchfish.

$850 to me is nothing if it provides the confidence and skill to do it right the 1st time.

Btw, is the Conchfish considered a stitch and glue or cold molded project?


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Half Shell said:


> How beneficial would attending one of the wooden boat workshops available at various places on the east coast be prior to taking this on? There is a 1-week course for about $850 that I know of that seems to cover a lot of the skills needed with a Conchfish.
> 
> $850 to me is nothing if it provides the confidence and skill to do it right the 1st time.
> 
> Btw, is the Conchfish considered a stitch and glue or cold molded project?


Neither, it’s a wood strip plank, core strip plank or sheet cored build. 
Stitch and glue is method using sheets of plywood that you stitch up using wire or tie wraps. It’s like stitching up a peeled banana to make whole again.
Cold molding is a wooden method of laying up thin wood veneers over a strong back to make a molded hull shape into one glues up sheet of essentially plywood.
For those not in a hurry I will start my Beryllium build in November in Mt. Olive NC. Anyone wants to drop by and learn as I go along is welcome. For free. 
I will be videoing the entire build so by spring all my methods will be online. Then I will finish my book.
My build jig, patterns will be up for grabs after I’am done. For free.
I will also be building the 2and skiff which will be my latest vee bottom design that can be built in aluminum or core sheets using my method. I will show how anyone can build this skiffs hull in 1 week and finish the entire skiff in 1 month using my build method.
The last 14’ cored epoxy skiff I built using this method was my Slippery Dick design. It took 40 hours to build.
Weighed under 95 lbs.and I could walk all the way around it’s sheer without it tipping over.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm looking forward to the Beryllium build. I think many of us have spent years in the skinny and have a wonder lust for near shore/offshore on nice days.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Cut Runner said:


> Old school wooden boats (like pirate ships) would build to as tight of tolerances as they could, dump the boat in the water for a couple days so the wood would swell up and seal the joints, and where they still had leaks they filled it with tar or tree sap or something like that. They crossed the ocean a few times


Old school wooden boats could not be powered to 35 knots in heavy chop. Not a good comparison.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Almost any good design built with CNC will be more durable than a build cut/machined by humans. Humans make mistakes. Our new machines are built with CNC and are much more reliable.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

sjrobin said:


> Almost any good design built with CNC will be more durable than a build cut/machined by humans. Humans make mistakes. Our new machines are built with CNC and are much more reliable.


I can't agree with this. The forms have little to do with the durability of a hull. And the build style allows for variances without any detrimental effect. The only thing it does is ensure accuracy and add some speed to the build, not a bad thing, but not really worlds apart from someone with a good square and jig saw.


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

CNC has nothing to do with strength or being more durable..


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## WeeHooker (Aug 26, 2016)

It's always been my experience that the bulk of the joy is in the building. The finished boat is only a way to give evidence to the process and the builders skills. It's a good thing too as it's also been my experience that home built boats tend to get 20 cents on the dollar of investment back when it comes time to pass them on. Especially if they are mainly built of wood. Seems many feel like the OP and don't want something of unknown pedegree unless it's a steal.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

WeeHooker said:


> It's always been my experience that the bulk of the joy is in the building. The finished boat is only a way to give evidence to the process and the builders skills. It's a good thing too as it's also been my experience that home built boats tend to get 20 cents on the dollar of investment back when it comes time to pass them on. Especially if they are mainly built of wood. Seems many feel like the OP and don't want something of unknown pedegree unless it's a steal.


I have to agree. I built cabinets, did finish trim work, custom decks, lots of aluminum fabrication etc and a kit just sounds like a buzzkill. I guess if it’s just CNC stations it’s different but still kind of takes the skill out of it. If you can’t build it start to finish it just seems like you may as well just pay someone to build the whole thing. When I build a skiff I want to be able to honestly say I built it and rigged it my self.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

I don’t 100 percent agree that getting stations cut out by CNC is cheating, obviously everyone has a different opinion on it. I love to fish not necessarily work on projects related to fishing. The reason I am considering building a skiff is to get a boat that gives me something not currently available on the market and cures some of my current complaints of current skiff’s I have been on or owned.
Cutting some time off the build appeals to me as it gets me to a finished product a little quicker. I can live with being a 75 percent builder if I’m on the water a couple months sooner but that’s just me.


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

Building the base and aligning the pre-cut stations correctly does take some skills. If you don't do it right, you'll be fighting it throughout the build.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

If you’re not into the “ process “ get a production boat. You ll adapt
You’re never 100% the builder , someone else always weaves the fiberglass. Saving time , is not the same as cutting corners Good luck


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