# Fly Fish only spots?



## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

I believe no one owns the water, physically or intellectually.


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## jnicosia (Jan 6, 2021)

In the trout and freshwater there are flyfishing only sections .


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## LtShinysides (Dec 27, 2018)

No. I don't give a damn how you fish, as long as your respectful.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Don't we already have one
The no motor area


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## Flytyingfool (Apr 25, 2021)

I love most things about fly fishing. But, having a niche activity attempt to dictate what others can do in the ocean only adds to the perceived elitism of our sport.


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Flytyingfool said:


> I love most things about fly fishing. But, having a niche activity attempt to dictate what others can do in the ocean only adds to the perceived elitism of our sport.


I don’t necessarily agree with making fly fish only areas everywhere, like in salt where the areas are pretty vast, but, as mentioned above, in trout rivers I do.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

There are fly fish only and single hook rules in lots of Trout water


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

LtShinysides said:


> No. I don't give a damn how you fish, as long as your respectful.


I agree with the Lieutenant. One thing I may disagree with is some of the power chumming situations we're seeing. Legal and allowed yes but it seems to be changing saying behavior and aggregating sharks.

And snaggers


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Jason M said:


> I agree with the Lieutenant. One thing I may disagree with is some of the power chumming situations we're seeing. Legal and allowed yes but it seems to be changing saying behavior and aggregating sharks.
> 
> And snaggers


That’s a great observation, Jason.

The first flat where I caught a bonefish in Biscayne Bay (within the National Park) a couple years ago is definitely in habitat decline. Turtle grass apparently covered the flat within the last five years and now is mostly gone. There are still bonefish and permit and sometimes big ones. To me, these fish always look confused. And the flat looks like a war zone compared to other pristine areas in the Bay. One of the issues of this spot is if you catch more than one or two bones and sometimes just one, no bait or chumming involved— the sharks come in droves. There was an IG post, clearly in this spot, where guys are bragging about catching double digits of bonefish (in numbers not size ) and the water is all “murked up” . Can’t imagine how many of those fish got sharked.

I mostly fly fish. Have a lot of respect for conventional guys fishing jigs & artificials. The spot I’m referring to would benefit from an “artificial only” regulation.

I do want to learn how to snapper fish with cut bait & live bait— never seem to have time.


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## messin.with.sasquatch (Aug 10, 2021)

Str8-Six said:


> Another thread got me going. There are known fly fish only spots - mainly speaking of ocean side tarpon fishing in the keys. Bait fishermen are usually sanctioned to the bridge. This dynamic is usually amiable until the worm hatch happens, then ocean side fly fishermen go to the bridge to catch the same tarpon. Hypocritical? Sometimes these fly fishermen will take no regard to an anchored up boat drifting baits back or throwing artificial.
> 
> Question is: Do you agree with fly fish only spots?


Down in lower mat. We have spots that are "fly fishing" only. Its mostly due to the low boat traffic. Sea oats beach 9/10 is all fly fishing. With your once in a while guy throwing a crab looking for permit.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Stevie said:


> That’s a great observation, Jason.
> 
> The first flat where I caught a bonefish in Biscayne Bay (within the National Park) a couple years ago is definitely in habitat decline. Turtle grass apparently covered the flat within the last five years and now is mostly gone. There are still bonefish and permit and sometimes big ones. To me, these fish always look confused. And the flat looks like a war zone compared to other pristine areas in the Bay. One of the issues of this spot is if you catch more than one or two bones and sometimes just one, no bait or chumming involved— the sharks come in droves. There was an IG post, clearly in this spot, where guys are bragging about catching double digits of bonefish (in numbers not size ) and the water is all “murked up” . Can’t imagine how many of those fish got sharked.
> 
> ...


I agree with Stevie. I have a bunch of respect for the guys that have the live bait situation dialed in. 

I carry conventional rods on my boat but if I can sight fish I throw flies. But I love throwing top waters and love skipping soft plastics under docks and mangroves.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Str8-Six said:


> Sometimes these fly fishermen will take no regard to an anchored up boat drifting baits back or throwing artificial.


I can't name any group of people that has a significant number that doesn't have a few turkeys in it.

BTW, I voted no as as it relates to public waters which should be available to all.
Universal restrictions such as "single" or barbless hooks I'm OK with.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

mro said:


> I can't name any group of people that has a significant number that doesn't have a few turkeys in it.


100% agree with you


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## Stormy Monday (Mar 27, 2019)

I don't even agree with FFO in fresh water, although I've only used fly rods or droplines since 1967. In fresh water now guides just use a bobber and a nymph, have their "sports" toss it out and bait fish with a nymph. No fly casting, no feel, so really what's the point of the restriction? Single hook I get, C&R I get - those restrictions will thin out the white bucket brigade just fine, then let the rest use whatever gear works best for them.


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## dbrady784 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ughh, I guess I’ll be the one to play devils advocate. Yes I would agree with fly only spots (would rather artificial/fly and just no bait). Of course no one owns the water however it would be nice for areas to be sanctioned off for this. Think it would increase the overall success rate for anglers throwing arti/fly in these areas.

A perfect example is if you’ve fished Tampa bay. Good luck getting redfish to eat a fly on the weekend with the dozens of boats slinging chum with bats. It’s tricky, but can be done.

surely people would complain with this change at first, but that’s with any change. At the end of the day, fishing is a huge industry. The anglers success (fly/arti) does nothing but help every area in the industry flourish.

also you can soak bait anywhere. You CAN’T fly fish everywhere….


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

More important to have catch and release only areas or species. And regs on hook types etc. To protect. Rec fishing still living in the 60's with "meat fishing " mentality. Sure some species can be table fare in small numbers. Tarpon pretty much is catch and release except where they are not handled correctly.


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## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

7WT said:


> More important to have catch and release only areas or species. And regs on hook types etc. To protect. Rec fishing still living in the 60's with "meat fishing " mentality. Sure some species can be table fare in small numbers. Tarpon pretty much is catch and release except where they are not handled correctly.


Completely agree, I believe we could definitely improve the echo system if we restricted access of powered engines in certain areas that have been beat up by outboards. I routinely see folks park their boat too shallow around sanibel and they just power out and dig up ruts . That’s a bigger threat than fishermen.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm 100% fly. Don't even carry spin gear on the skiff. But I voted "No".

If you get up early enough or you know enough about the tides and conditions to get to a location/area before me...then good on you.

BUT...if you roll in behind me or after me and show poor etiquette then there is no water too shallow that I cannot jump up and ruin the area for both of us.

AND...that's why you won't see me roll in behind or after someone unless I'm trying to quietly sneak by to another area.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

Yes, more regulations please...(TIC)...Ha, ha ha. I could barely get that out with a straight face. 

The pole n troll zones on the space coast have no say on how you fish, just how you can access the area. Do the no motor zones down there dictate technique?


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Clamfoot said:


> Yes, more regulations please...(TIC)...Ha, ha ha. I could barely get that out with a straight face.
> 
> The pole n troll zones on the space coast have no say on how you fish, just how you can access the area. Do the no motor zones down there dictate technique?


The poll and troll zones work. I wish we could implement more of them in Tampa Bay.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

No.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Jason M said:


> The poll and troll zones work. I wish we could implement more of them in Tampa Bay.


I do agree with more troll/poll zones. When they put the Manatee zones in Matlacha pass the boat traffic on the lower east side of the pass was greatly reduced. Most of the the run and gun bait tossing fishermen don't have the patience to idle through the zone. Poll and Troll zones do not eliminate bait fishermen, it just makes them like everyone else work harder to access the fish.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

thanks heavens I don't live up north where restrictions on fishing are not only necessary but accepted... 

Suspect that if I lived in places with "opening day" crowds, closed waters, and all the other things that many have become used to - I'd have long ago taken up poker playing in the bad side of town, pool shooting, or chasing other fellow's wives - you know... nothing dangerous... 

Can't say enough good things about the 'glades where most days we're never even close to another boat if that's what I choose... Just nothing like the 'glades...


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Fly only? no
Artificial only? Heck yes.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

I voted yes because there was only two options. But I agree with the artificial only areas.

it’s funny because I have pushed my boat really far in a few pole and troll areas in the Everglades and the dishing was mediocre compared to easily accessible spots.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

Any regulation means more Regulators

It's bad enough that they think they have the right to be in my vehicle, my gun locker, on hiking trails with me, and in my liquor cabinet. I don't need them on the water next to me checking my prostate on every cast.

This kind of "fly only" or "artificial only" thinking is how/why NY went to socialist hell in the short span of 20 years.
Now, only those that can afford it get to fish, and little to no marine fuel tax or fishing equipment sales tax revenue goes to improving access or listening to the voice of recreational fishermen in that hell hole. 

Take it from someone who grew up fishing outside of FL many years ago. Florida has a GREAT system today, don't touch it. 

It starts with " we need to protect fly fisherman" and ends with the most dangerous words ever spoken in history "it's for your own good" and "we need to protect the children" 
We the people will protect our own interests, thank you.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Even in fresh water most restricted tackle regs are "single hook artificial only" more than "fly fish only" although there are some exceptions.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Clamfoot said:


> Any regulation means more Regulators
> 
> It's bad enough that they think they have the right to be in my vehicle, my gun locker, on hiking trails with me, and in my liquor cabinet. I don't need them on the water next to me checking my prostate on every cast.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. Way better to have the user groups handle these situations then have government get involved.


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

redchaser said:


> Even in fresh water most restricted tackle regs are "single hook artificial only" more than "fly fish only" although there are some exceptions.


And that "single hook, artificial only" is followed by an extensive definition of "artificial." 
Since I am primarily fresh water, and got my flyfishing start on trout streams, I am in favor of designated waters. But as mentioned, with designation comes enforcement. That means hiring or assigning more officers to enforce new regs. Some trout streams have greatly benefitted from such designations, but to implement the same regulations on a stretch of open shoreline or a specified area of water would be much harder to enforce. I believe certain fisheries would benefit from enforced regulations, but to simply create a "fly only" zone with no intent of enforcing would be "an exercise in futility."


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

I've had the luxury of being able to fish when I want to since the 70's.
Started my first company for two reasons and fishing was one of them.



lemaymiami said:


> - I'd have long ago taken up poker playing in the bad side of town, pool shooting, or chasing other fellow's wives - you know... nothing dangerous...


Nothing wrong with poker and shooting pool ... but _*poaching*_ some guys woman I put up there with pedophiles and robbers.
Got to admit that shooting pool a few times got me into trouble but think it had more to do with being in bars to often and some guys are such jerks that they can't stand to loose.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

No motor zones and catch and release


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

fishnpreacher said:


> And that "single hook, artificial only" is followed by an extensive definition of "artificial."
> Since I am primarily fresh water, and got my flyfishing start on trout streams, I am in favor of designated waters. But as mentioned, with designation comes enforcement. That means hiring or assigning more officers to enforce new regs. Some trout streams have greatly benefitted from such designations, but to implement the same regulations on a stretch of open shoreline or a specified area of water would be much harder to enforce. I believe certain fisheries would benefit from enforced regulations, but to simply create a "fly only" zone with no intent of enforcing would be "an exercise in futility."


That opens up a whole other can of worms.

Saltwater fish are mostly migratory, this is a major problem in the Northeast. Stripers hatched in the Chesapeake inhabit NY beaches in the summer and Hudson River stripers move north to Mass and Maine.

Then there are the following questions: 
Can you use natural scent on your fly in the fly-only zone. (see other thread) 
What defines fly vs artificial? There are fly guys who think anything other than fur, feather, and thread is a lure (i.e. surf candy patterns or anything with gummy fish skin) 
If you are trolling with a fly rod are you fly fishing?
Can you use scent on your artificial?
Is Powerbait artificial
Are Magic's brand Preserved (embalmed) Shad, (available for 3.99 at Acadamy Sports) artificial or bait?

I'm sure there is some 6 term, 30 year politician who has never fished (or worked) a day in his/her life (bait, artificial or fly) that would be happy to take 10 more years of tax money to go on an all-expenses-paid "fact-finding" tour of select "commercially concerned" fishing business entities and take his kids and cronies on a worldwide, fully guided tour of all of the best fishing spots and be a "special guest" on The Walker's Cay Chronicles to spew his agenda so the landlocked in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, can guzzle the cool-aid and tell the rest of us what to do.
Of course, all for our own good and the safety of the children......


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

Re: stripers and NH. Fyi NH is not landlocked. And northeast stripers do come up from the Chesapeake. In fact stripers at one time before they were overfished were common in Florida, the Gulf and into Texas. I fish spin, fly, surfcast and started with a baitcaster. I don't care what you fish with. I do care that in today's world how you do it and conservation matters. I have no use for high tower power boats screaming over the flats trying to rattle some red fish or tarpon or snook so they can come back and slay them. That is not fishing with any type of rod and reel to me. It would be nice if people could and would use common sense and observe sustainable practices without regulations. Whose drinking the cool aid?


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

Clamfoot said:


> That opens up a whole other can of worms.
> 
> Saltwater fish are mostly migratory, this is a major problem in the Northeast. Stripers hatched in the Chesapeake inhabit NY beaches in the summer and Hudson River stripers move north to Mass and Maine.
> 
> ...


From the Ga DNR definitions
*Artificial Lure*
Any lure made completely of natural or colored wood, cork, feathers, hair, rubber, metal, plastic, tinsel, styrofoam, sponge, string, or any combination of such materials, in imitation of or as a substitute for natural bait. This does not include any item sprayed with or containing scented or chemical attractants.
Some regulations call for single hook, artificial only. You can use an inline spinner like a Mepps, but you have to remove the treble hook and put on a single hook. Same with a crankbait. Remove the trebles, add 1 single hook. The regulations do not designate "fly only" but do state "single hook, artificial only."

The only artificial only waters I know of are streams, so trolling with a fly rod wouldn't matter.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

We agree on all points then.

The question at hand is fly only areas Y or N. For me that is just more local regulation on a migratory species. Pointless tyranny which I completely object to.

We agree that saltwater fish migrate. Regulations inflicted on people in one area or state over a migratory species are not conservation. They are politics driven by landlocked people who sit in houses power and dictate about things they know little about. (Landlocked referring to the particular people not the place). NY is not landlocked either but those idiots in Albany have certainly screwed over recreational fisherman with regulations for decades.

I think the system in Florida is great as it is. Flawed but great. No need for more government involvement.

Real fisherman do more for species conservation every day then any politician or new fishing regulation ever will. 

Yes, rudimentary fishing gear is cheap and unfortunately inconsiderate a-holes walk the earth with me. But they don't really stick around long enough to have that much of a negative effect that I need or want some FWC guy/gal staring me down the other 50 days I'm on the water. And in Florida those short timer's licenses fees benefit me those other 50 days.

FYI. I've spend 40+ years fishing as well, started with a bait caster in the surf under the Montauk light, fished spin casters and deep sea for shark & tuna as well, all recreational. 

The last 2 years, every weekend, I have been fly only.

I haven't killed a fish in about 15 years. That had nothing to do with regulations either.


fishnpreacher said:


> From the Ga DNR definitions
> *Artificial Lure*
> Any lure made completely of natural or colored wood, cork, feathers, hair, rubber, metal, plastic, tinsel, styrofoam, sponge, string, or any combination of such materials, in imitation of or as a substitute for natural bait. This does not include any item sprayed with or containing scented or chemical attractants.
> Some regulations call for single hook, artificial only. You can use an inline spinner like a Mepps, but you have to remove the treble hook and put on a single hook. Same with a crankbait. Remove the trebles, add 1 single hook. The regulations do not designate "fly only" but do state "single hook, artificial only."
> ...


So fluff chuckers and plastic casters are all the same in the eyes of the law (and the eyes that see all). Revalation.....

Thanks Preach.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

I added a 4th choice to the poll for those that agree with artificial only spots. Artificial being lure or fly


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

To your point on migrating fish clamfoot: And that is why the right regs need to be adopted by all the states and countries those fish migrate. From what I can see man has overfished all species for a very long time and technology has only assisted that. And it is true for recreational as well as commercial. I have not seen and do not see today where man on his own volition, individual exceptions do exist, practices an approach that supports sustainable practices. As for Florida I believe it is necessary to include Everglades destructuon, phosphorous mining, population growth and more in looking at regulations and any future for a sustainable fishery. Today's red tide's, Okeechobee's algae, sugar cane farming, 1000 houses a day all speak to this.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

I don't care what gear they fish with, I just want to see areas where you have to idle, poll, or troll to protect the shallow grass beds and reduce the pressure on the fish.


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## loganlogan (May 8, 2020)

Making rules, because of someone else's feelings is short sighted. Make rules to stop massive fish hauls, might be a better use of time.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

The main concern about methods of take regard fair chase. That is why the bottom weighted jigs were banned in Boca Grande pass. They were determined to be snagging devices and violated fair chase.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

7WT said:


> To your point on migrating fish clamfoot: And that is why the right regs need to be adopted by all the states and countries those fish migrate. From what I can see man has overfished all species for a very long time and technology has only assisted that. And it is true for recreational as well as commercial. I have not seen and do not see today where man on his own volition, individual exceptions do exist, practices an approach that supports sustainable practices. As for Florida I believe it is necessary to include Everglades destructuon, phosphorous mining, population growth and more in looking at regulations and any future for a sustainable fishery. Today's red tide's, Okeechobee's algae, sugar cane farming, 1000 houses a day all speak to this.


7wt

The question was fly only areas Y or N. And your answer is federally mandated and regulated fisheries for recreational fisherman?????

This is exactly where you (I assume some form of Federalist) fall off the cliff.

Recreational fishermen (free peoples with rods and reels) are not overfishing any species to any real detriment. Stop picking on the little guy/gal.

As for all of the other activities that you believe are affecting the fisheries. I am 100% certain that those are not recreational fishing activities. Stop picking on the little guy/gal.

Regulating (punishing) me as a rod and reel fisherman will not alter those other activities or help any species.

Calling in the jack-booted federal thugs to lean on me while I'm fishing when all of those other "politically accepted and paid for" commercial activities are doing the damage is just plain wrong.
But it makes non-fishermen and politicians who are only concerned with keeping their income (my taxes) feel better about themselves. They did something!

We need to stop trying to clean up the mess others create by infringing on individuals' God-given rights.

I'm old enough to know that the federal government doesn't give a rip about me, the environment, or some fish. They only care about themselves, holding their power, and keeping their riches. 

I don't need or want them sending unelected, uniformed, over-armed "followers" into the areas that I fish under the excuse of en*FORCE*ing a BS regulation created out of some "cover their butt" political agenda or manufactured distration.

So when the question of "more regulation" is raised my answer is a firm NO!.

The government has had 200+ years worth of opportunities to get it right. Look around you. They blew it and have not earned yet another chance to trample my rights.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

This will be my last comment regarding regulations here. I encourage you to learn more from reliable and fact based sources regarding recreational fishing and its impact on fisheries. You might also take a look at what republican governor and senator John Chafee of Rhode Island did regarding stripe bass, The Clean Water Act and The Coastal Barriers Resource act as examples of positive impact of state and Federal work. I recognize your positions. I believe there is always plus and minus. No should not be fly only. Yes should be regulations.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

Agreed.... Thank you for offering your perspective.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

I don't think that local regulation on migratory species is always pointless. Tarpon are highly migratory, I'm glad Florida has the regulations it has in place to protect them since large numbers of tarpon spend a lot of time in Florida waters. I do think this local regulation makes a difference because there are likely more anglers fishing for tarpon in Florida waters than anywhere else. Sadly Tarpon are unregulated in Louisiana, however still relatively few tarpon are caught and/or killed in Louisiana waters. While I still wish Louisiana would implement C&R only regulations on Tarpon, having regulations in place in Florida has a far greater impact on tarpon numbers and survival than regulations in Louisiana would. I think local regulations have also had an impact at times on striper. That said the regulations that make a difference are general C&R, Creel and size regs not tackle. I think the only time tackle regs make a difference iis in a fishery that is C&R and there is demonstrable evidence that one method of take causes higher mortality than others, this would bring us to situations like a trout stream that is artificial, single hook only and even then it doesn't matter if it's a fly or a lure. A similar case might be made for snagging/breakaway jigs for tarpon but I'm not familiar enough with the data on that to have an opinion beyond an emotional gut response. Putting "fly only" type regs in place will only pit one user group against another.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Jason M said:


> The main concern about methods of take regard fair chase. That is why the bottom weighted jigs were banned in Boca Grande pass. They were determined to be snagging devices and violated fair chase.


IMHO they were truly "flossing" or snagging as you called it the tarpon with the breakaway jigs. The guy who first started it and won several tournaments admitted it. Beyond the ethical question of snagging fish, we were also left with a huge amount of lead jigs in the bottom of Boca Pass since they were breakaway jigs.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

Red, That all sounds reasonable but maybe there is an alternative perspective.

I think that very few of the tarpon that are hooked and landed by recreational fishermen would be considered bycatch.
In other words, a vast majority of the time, if a tarpon is caught it's because it was targeted. I could be wrong about that but I think I'm pretty safe. Tarpon are hard enough to catch that dumb luck probably plays no measurable role. 
If my 1st assumption is correct then I would also say that those fishermen who are specifically and successfully targeting tarpon are mostly respectful of the resource and not inclined to take or kill the fish lightly. By extension down that line, there is very little realized value for the regulation but there is fallout and cost for monitoring and maintaining that regulation. 

I accept that I have to walk the earth with certain people who would kill a tarpon. Their existence is equally as valuable as mine. They will do what they do regardless of regulations although I'd be interested to know how many citations and convictions are being realized as a result of the regulation. Only then can you justify the costs associated with maintaining the regulation. Any regulation is not inherently good on its own. Count the results because the results count.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

redchaser said:


> Sadly Tarpon are unregulated in Louisiana, however still relatively few tarpon are caught and/or killed in Louisiana waters.


I can’t imagine catching a tarpon on a cane pole. Isn’t that what people In Louisiana use? Probably why they don’t catch many 😂


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Instead of fly fishing in spots how about influencer only spots so these insta douches don’t screw the few pristine places left. They can all go to the same areas they have already screwed up and film to their hearts content. 

Kinda like all the new guides taking people to greens lake in Houston. It’s like they designated it as a area we will just blow up so when the clients come back in their skiffs I won’t be blamed. At least that’s how it seemed before I left.


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## mpk1996 (Aug 6, 2020)

Nope. As others have mentioned, waters open to everyone. Might suck having people floating down the river, but their rights to be there are the same as anyone else. Same for std tackle.

now keeping trucks out of the left lane on the highway, different story


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

P


Clamfoot said:


> Red, That all sounds reasonable but maybe there is an alternative perspective.
> 
> I think that very few of the tarpon that are hooked and landed by recreational fishermen would be considered bycatch.
> In other words, a vast majority of the time, if a tarpon is caught it's because it was targeted. I could be wrong about that but I think I'm pretty safe. Tarpon are hard enough to catch that dumb luck probably plays no measurable role.
> ...


Clamfoot, I think for years the Boca Grande tarpon tournament illustrated that good numbers of people who target tarpon aren't particularly respectful of the fish, the resource, or good fish handling techniques. And I think the same applies to Florida's law regarding not lifting large tarpon out of the water. People were getting their hero shot with t he fish out of the water and harming fish in the process, additionally there are people who would kill tarpon to drag it back to the dock if it were legal that don't now because it's not legal. Evidence of this is simply comparing what happens at the docks in the keys now to what happened not many years ago, particularly during tournaments. Many folks will simply do whatever the law allows.
.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

Red, I get your point. although that may not be the best example. 

I'm not sure what time period you are talking about but how to run a tournament is not a government or regulatory issue. The tournament officials could/should have solved that problem before it was a problem. The tournament officials and participants should have been acting as stewards of the sport, as most tournaments do today, without the big federal finger in the punch bowl.
If they didn't behave properly the guides and the local community should not have supported the tournament or any associated businesses. 

The motivation to kill the fish was prizes and money, not fishing. How many guys would go out and snag an unedible fish if there was no tournament?
How long would they continue that behavior if all of their friends and the community looked at them as a bunch of idiots for killing that fish as they would today? 

Our approaches to life and liberty apparently differ a little.

Years ago most everyone smoked, drank homemade moonshine, fired black powder into open wounds, and had unprotected sex. 
All things that we mostly don't do now, that were not regulated out of relative existence. We still have the individual rights to do those things if we choose. 
I believe that people are capable of thinking about things, evolving, getting smarter, and grow up all without surrendering our and each other's liberties to our own government. That thinking was the norm a short 75-100 years ago. 

I was raised to understand that the government was not designed to be the answer to the problems (that is communism, socialism, authoritarianism, or a monarchy). 
In a Republic of the people and by the people, the government should be the very very last option of last resort.

Now we seem to think it's the only option....Sad but true.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Not to pop anyone's bubble but Florida is one of the few states left that at least tries to introduce somewhat balanced rules/regulations. Even then what about the release intentionally or due to rain of contaminated water into the glades?
Your only slowly heading down the path of California.


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## dbrady784 (Feb 17, 2014)

mro said:


> Not to pop anyone's bubble but Florida is one of the few states left that at least tries to introduce somewhat balanced rules/regulations. Even then what about the release intentionally or due to rain of contaminated water into the glades?
> Your only slowly heading down the path of California.



so you aren’t in favor of the decreased limit/increased min size in FL, and closure of flounder in November for rec anglers then?


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

dbrady784 said:


> you aren’t in favor of


I've always been favorable to reasonable regulations to protect our enhance fisheries and wildlife in general.
Here's my 2021 fishing license. One part on the left is 39 1/2 inches long, center 7 inches, right side 30 1/2 inches
Price dropped this year to only $69.12









Most of the above are reporting requirements for various species.
Then there's the mussel and weed fees for your boat on top of boat/trailer registration.
Then comes the the regulations... which vary from place to place. Some areas on the coast no boats allowed, then areas that you can pass through but no fishing. Then there's the limitations on your gear which can change while your fishing should you say catch a salmon while rock fishing, then you must only fish with circle hooks if that legal size salmon is on board your boat even though your fishing for rock fish, unless your using a jig/lure for the rock fish then J-hooks are ok, but I'd bet that if you were tip your jig with a small piece of squid they wood consider that bait fishing so it would need to have a circle hook 
Your also prohibited from fishing certain depths for certain fish but ok to fish for other species.
If you decide to fish somewhere your not familiar with you need to check the regulations for that area as it changes.
If you would like to get confused read or fish and wildlife laws. Most of it's not hard to understand but the way it's organized sucks in that you need to read much more to find all the laws that pertain to the areas you want to fish.

You might get the impression that our state government is concerned about the ecology with all the laws/regulations we have. It's government polices that have damaged the Salmon and Striped Bass here. The water diversion from the Sacramento/San Juaquin river system of the delta is so sever that where my dad lived on Bethel Island in the delta when the state and federal pumps are turned on it literally stops the current (3 to 4 mph peak at his dock) and water just drains like a bath tub. Southern California and the farmers of the central valley desert take priority over the ecology. Only a tiny population of the delta smelt (forage fish) remain. Stripers and Salmon spawn in the river currents of the Sacramento, Yuba and try to in the San Joaquin. For mitigation the state/feds installed some nets to keep the spawn from being sucked into the pumps but the current created by the pumps is strong enough that it traps baby fish against the nets and kills them. Somehow the fry that get past the nets are sucked into the pumps which some manage to survive so the two canals running south probably have more fish than the delta does.

The true driver of the state of our ecology is politics, and our state is run by only one political party.


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## Redfish727 (Mar 22, 2016)

crboggs said:


> I'm 100% fly. Don't even carry spin gear on the skiff. But I voted "No".
> 
> If you get up early enough or you know enough about the tides and conditions to get to a location/area before me...then good on you.
> 
> ...





dbrady784 said:


> Ughh, I guess I’ll be the one to play devils advocate. Yes I would agree with fly only spots (would rather artificial/fly and just no bait). Of course no one owns the water however it would be nice for areas to be sanctioned off for this. Think it would increase the overall success rate for anglers throwing arti/fly in these areas.
> 
> A perfect example is if you’ve fished Tampa bay. Good luck getting redfish to eat a fly on the weekend with the dozens of boats slinging chum with bats. It’s tricky, but can be done.
> 
> ...


100% fly is the only way IMO. haha my man Boggs on the scene! I would vote no as well buddy.
Dbrady We have caught redfish in double digits on fly, with mullet boats running all over us in Tampa Bay. The best advice that can be given is… spend as much time on the water as possible. Learn everything you can about the fish you love to target. Mine happens to be redfish. Take you’re time even if you have only a few hours. Fish when the water clarity sucks, when the wind is blowing hard, it don’t matter what the conditions are but one thing is for sure you will learn something every trip. Compile that info and use it. Nothing better than catching redfish off of another anglers wake trying to squeeze you off the shoreline. Haha #flyfishingcult Tampa bay has some of the best fly fishing in Florida. Just takes sometime to figure it out. Your time will turn into talent[/QUOTE]


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Redfish727 said:


> Just takes sometime to figure it out. Your time will turn into talent


Yeah man...I still struggle fishing those hot / high tides even though I know I need to learn how to work them. 

Glad fall and winter will be coming along soon...

#tillergang


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## Redfish727 (Mar 22, 2016)

crboggs said:


> Yeah man...I still struggle fishing those hot / high tides even though I know I need to learn how to work them.
> 
> Glad fall and winter will be coming along soon...
> 
> #tillergang


Lemme know when ya catch a break from work. Them evening lows are looking money next week


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Redfish727 said:


> 100% fly is the only way IMO. haha my man Boggs on the scene! I would vote no as well buddy.
> Dbrady We have caught redfish in double digits on fly, with mullet boats running all over us in Tampa Bay. The best advice that can be given is… spend as much time on the water as possible. Learn everything you can about the fish you love to target. Mine happens to be redfish. Take you’re time even if you have only a few hours. Fish when the water clarity sucks, when the wind is blowing hard, it don’t matter what the conditions are but one thing is for sure you will learn something every trip. Compile that info and use it. Nothing better than catching redfish off of another anglers wake trying to squeeze you off the shoreline. Haha #flyfishingcult Tampa bay has some of the best fly fishing in Florida. Just takes sometime to figure it out. Your time will turn into talent


[/QUOTE]

Best post on this thread. The first couple of years that I started targeting redfish in shallow water with a fly, I rarely had the luxury of water with any kind of visibility. I learned to sight fish to tails, crawlers, pushes and small subtle ripples and dimples that I learned were redfish by the way they moved. Once I started finding areas that more consistently held cleaner water to truly sight fish it felt like the game had suddenly gotten easy, but the knowledge I had developed when it was tough still serves me very well.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

redchaser said:


> I learned to sight fish to tails, crawlers, pushes and small subtle ripples and dimples that I learned were redfish by the way they moved.


Yup. I've been trying to learn the differences between the various pushes, tails, and etc. 727 does it better than anyone I have fished with.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

No. We already have enough Government over reach..Reminds me of the guy told me he was gonna call FWC because I was fishing his dock from my boat. Little does he know I'm a Florida Cracker who knows the law needless to say he wasn't happy when I told him wear to go rhymes with yell.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

And for the record I fly-fishing before anyone starts.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Caveat, I am for freedom and less government but what people don’t want to admit sometimes is that a free society comes with some rough side effects.

Leave people to be free and choose and many will choose to make some aweful decisions. That’s just the way it is. Society must hold them accountable based on community (sometimes roughly).

This is a tricky subject, no doubt.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

You just answered your own (question or statement)

"SOCIETY must hold them accountable". You have missed your own point entirely.

The government is not society. 

What is the role of government in society? Government may be narrowly limited to perform the essential task of protecting each individual’s right to his life, liberty, and honestly acquired property. (That sounds like something Thomas Jefferson or Sam Huston would write) Or it may be used to try to modify, influence, or dictate the conduct of the citizenry. (That sounds like something Lenin or Mao would write)

I don't think our founding fathers planed the Govt to "dictate" the conduct of free people.

We are a smart, kind and resourcful people. It may take a while for us to figure something out but as free people I believe we are inherently good and will evolve our thought and behavior in a way that is best for all.

Have you surrendered to your own federal government and not even realized it?

Wait till the other Texans find out......


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