# Canoe "restoration" Thread



## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Oh and here's some photos of the wooden seats. Currently painted brown.


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

If'n it was me. I'd remove the seats, ditch the paint striper, and sand them down to bare wood. Now you have a good starting point and depending on the wood type where you go next. Oil, Stain, or Epoxy coating. 
Look up Epoxy Works, there you can find some issues like Coating Small Parts, with great ideas a projects refinishing wood.


The poly hull is a whole different issue, but there is an old article about flame treating plastics.


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

Are the seats original to the boat and are they solid wood? Not plywood, veneer, or some other laminated wood? They look pretty wide to be a solid piece of wood.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

They do look to be original I think. 

Just got this brochure image from old Town which says they are varnished fine grain wood


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

Sand and stain, then a few coats of clear polyurethane. You might need to do a light sanding with a fine sandpaper after staining.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

fishnpreacher said:


> Sand and stain, then a few coats of clear polyurethane. You might need to do a light sanding with a fine sandpaper after staining.


Great- do you mean sand with a sander? I don't have one, so would be doing this by hand.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

*Other updates
Rivets*
The rivets that hold the gunwales/stern cap on to the body of the canoe are extremely loose and falling out, only at the back of the canoe.
I reached out to Old Town via email to learn more. They've been pretty helpful so far. They said I can order those same rivets for $0.90 a piece and will need a rivet gun to put them back in. 
I don't have access to a rivet gun though and don't know that I'll want to buy one, so I may go a different route...perhaps just some nuts and bolts?

















*Light bar removal*
The previous owner did some bow hunting and maybe gigging from this canoe at night in rural Missouri, so he had some aluminum bars fastened to it that held lights.








He was also an electrician I learned in my brief discussion with him, so he had the wires for the lights running all through the gunwales. Pretty slick.

Anyway, I don't want all that on the gunwales because I want smooth surfaces on the top in case of fly lines getting caught and whatever else. So I just removed them









Clean as a bean!










*First test run is happening today*
Going to take it over to a pond with my girlfriend to see how it performs on flat water.
I realized I don't want to keep putting work into it if I'm not going to end up being happy with how it handles.

The true test will be moving water, because I primarily plan to fish shallow Ozark streams with this...Probably not standing up and casting or anything, but I want me and one other person to be able to make it down the river in one piece.


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

orey10m said:


> Great- do you mean sand with a sander? I don't have one, so would be doing this by hand.


It can be dome by hand, but it will take a lot longer. Sanders are not expensive, Harbor Freight has some for 15-20 bucks. If you choose to chemical strip, there will still be some sanding to do. Most chemicals will raise the grain and will need to be sanded smooth before finishing. An electric palm sander will just make the overall job easier. Borrow one maybe?
As far as the rivets, some of them can be tightened by using 2 hammers, hold pressure on one side and tap the other side. But if you have to buy or rent a rivet gun, replace as many as you can.
You are doing right by stripping everything that you can. A blank platform is easier to work with.


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

Great- do you mean sand with a sander? I don't have one, so would be doing this by hand.....

I wouldn't even start a rebuild like this without a quality sander 👍 it would be well worth the money and ad to the enjoyment IMHO without the sander it could be quite the opposite ,making you regret you ever started 🥴


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

Don't have a sander, and don't have a rivet tool... both are available at HomeD or Harbor Freight... neither are that expensive, and compared to the time they will save you in the process would be well worth the price of admission.
The rivets you could get by with the dual hammer method, by by drilling them out replacing with bolts and nuts, Id use stainless with nylon-locking nuts but stainless is a choice. When/if drilling out the rivets be careful that they do not spin, could get hot and make the hole bigger, $0.90 per rivet sounds expensive for a rivet, buy one as a sample and shop online for more.

Old Town probably has/sells replacement rubber/nylon, or even wood, gunwale's

Although it's starting to sound like you want to do a backyard DIY, least expensive, clean up of this canoe and expect a lamborgini finish. Which takes me back to the light sanding and a rattle can paint job. That canoe probably cost $700 or less in 2003, how much do you really want to put into it.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Take a rivet to your local fastener store (ie: Fastenal) and they will be much cheaper.

You need a sander to do the job. If not just paint it and call it a day.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

DuckNut said:


> Take a rivet to your local fastener store (ie: Fastenal) and they will be much cheaper.
> 
> You need a sander to do the job. If not just paint it and call it a day.


Thanks- i didn't know that's what Fastenal is so that is helpful


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

krash said:


> Old Town probably has/sells replacement rubber/nylon, or even wood, gunwale's


Interesting you mention it, because I thought wood gunwales could be pretty sweet. Maybe something to consider in the future. 

Although, I'm transporting this thing upside down on the top of my truck, and I think wooden gunwales make that all a bit harder/something I'd be less willing to do. Because the wood would be meeting the truck top. 

I'm not really that interested in re-doing *all* these rivets and/or putting new gunwales on it though i don't think. They seem to be in fine condition and taking them off completely seems like a bigger project than I'm interested in.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

*Keel*
The keel has seen better days. 
I ordered some of those keel easy strips, and plan to put those on with a heat gun, but not sure how much they'll help


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## TylertheTrout2 (Apr 21, 2016)

Sweeeeeet!! Canoe missions are the best!! Keep up the good work!


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

For that Keel, contact Gator-Guards , they have a product made for Kayak and Canoe that sticks well to ploy.
Its mad basically to repair/protect the keel but its a short strip. Its an epoxy type product that cures in the sun of UV light when exposed. Perhaps they will sell you a longer srtip.

For the Rivets, just drill them out and go with stainless nut/bolt.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

orey10m said:


> They do look to be original I think.
> 
> Just got this brochure image from old Town which says they are varnished fine grain wood
> View attachment 175272


Sorry for the hijack here but this old brochure raises a question with me.

Look at the length, width, and capacity of this canoe- 650#. Compare it to a 13' Gheenoe which is the same length, 1.5" wider, and has a wider transom but only a 412# capacity.

Why the nearly 240# difference?


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

The materials used to build them would be my guess. Poly vs. glass/resin.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I have owned a number of old town canoes. Not sure if yours is ABS or triple sandwiched vacuum polyethylene. I suspect it is ABS due to its age. I have not ever seen one painted- not sure why someone would but clearly that happened to yours. If you are going to repaint it you don't necessarily have to remove all of the paint. You do need to remove any that is failing and sand smooth (hand sand will work- probably start with 100 or120 grit and go to 220 will do the trick), If you are not going to fill any gauges then wipe down with mineral spirits. You need to use a solvent paint. If you really wanted to do a job you would use a special bonding primer and then an aliphatic urethane top coat but that does not sound like you. So something like rustoleum in a solvent base will work. Not rocket science. For the varnished wood seats: If they have been painted and you want to go back to varnish you have to remove the paint- stripper - sanding combo. Then depending on how they look either use a spar varnish or a product called Sikkens cetol marine. If they won't look great with a clear then put on a stain first to even out the look. It will be worth it to strip and finish the seats. Your pride will extend to your fishing and care of your canoe.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

7WT said:


> I have owned a number of old town canoes. Not sure if yours is ABS or triple sandwiched vacuum polyethylene. I suspect it is ABS due to its age. I have not ever seen one painted- not sure why someone would but clearly that happened to yours. If you are going to repaint it you don't necessarily have to remove all of the paint. You do need to remove any that is failing and sand smooth (hand sand will work- probably start with 100 or120 grit and go to 220 will do the trick), If you are not going to fill any gauges then wipe down with mineral spirits. You need to use a solvent paint. If you really wanted to do a job you would use a special bonding primer and then an aliphatic urethane top coat but that does not sound like you. So something like rustoleum in a solvent base will work. Not rocket science. For the varnished wood seats: If they have been painted and you want to go back to varnish you have to remove the paint- stripper - sanding combo. Then depending on how they look either use a spar varnish or a product called Sikkens cetol marine. If they won't look great with a clear then put on a stain first to even out the look. It will be worth it to strip and finish the seats. Your pride will extend to your fishing and care of your canoe.


Ok just to clarify, is the Marine spar varnish clear?
And so is the Sikkens Cetol?

So I would need to pick a stain color, apply it, then put one of those two on over it?

If I'm understanding correctly this sounds like a good plan
Thanks!


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I prefer the Cetol Marine product which comes in three tones. It is easier to maintain and one of the shades should work. Not hard to locate. Google or West Marine.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

I'm about to be scraping some paint. Come hang out on Instagram live if you want. 
@flyfishingphotoproject


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

orey10m said:


> I'm about to be scraping some paint. Come hang out on Instagram live if you want.
> @flyfishingphotoproject


1st quarter of the inside done.


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

I wouldnt let a poly canoe kill me id repair what i could install a keel guard paint it camo an paddle on that white paint is a pipe dream cause every time you scratch it the dark colors will show threw..if it was glass then you would have more to work with !Dont over think it !just my opinion 🤪


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Front half of the inside is stripped


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

I actually got that done the other night but didn't have a picture of it.

Got an hour in before church this morning and got the 3 seats removed for sanding, staining and varnish. I labelled each of them, and the direction they go back in. 








But there's some metal brackets and things that were torqued pretty hard after all the years of use, and the bolts were bent on a few of them, so that might prove to be tricky getting them back on. 








Can't believe someone would paint this wood. Look how pretty it is underneath! I'm going to try and get it back to that color on top. 










I lost one washer in the yard, so I think I'll go to Fastenal and find a new one and replace the few bent bolts that I have.


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

My area...lowes has best price on stainless bolts, nuts,washers 👍 Way better than Home Depot!


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

Doing the type restore you are doing I'd replace all the hardware with new stainless and nylock nuts. Fortunately we have a local marine hardware store, MacDonalds, with a great selection of everything you need (most all you need).


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I agree about Lowe's (and everything's better organized and stocked than my local Home..). One thing to remember though - there are many different grades of stainless (hard to tell them apart, just looking - and sometimes they're mixed in together...). So when you go to get stainless - bring a small magnet (or a magnetic stud finder, very low tech...). Any stainless the magnet holds onto - you don't want on a boat going into brackish or saltwaters (another of those "ask me how I know" deals...) since any stainless with enough iron in it will rust sooner than later...


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

Im trying to see if i can get that area on my arm i got covid shot magnetized, then i want even need to carry a magnet 🤯👍😎


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Welp I went to Lowe's. That was pretty rough... Per usual in these big box stores, nobody knows what they're talking about. I don't either but I can tell when someone doesn't understand the question. 

So I'm back to you guys... I'm trying to drill out the rivets that remain in the plastic "transom cap", ( pictured above in this thread) then buy a new rivet gun and some rivets ( don't think I'll go with the Old Town $0.90 ones). When I tried drilling out a few of them that were hanging loose already, they kinda just spun in place and didn't really let me drill through. That makes sense I guess. I guess if they were still stuck in there solid then it would work.. My question is, do you need any certain sort of drill bit for this? Or should a regular old drill bit work? See my attempts below


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

At Lowe's i did accomplish one thing though, and that was figuring out they the size of these rivets Old Town uses are 3/16" width, with 1/2" grip...I was just eyeballing it based on the ones I pulled out of the canoe, but they looked very close. So that's what I'll end up buying


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

I would think for the rivet removal a larger drill bit would work better just to remove the head then tap them out with a punch ? A drill bit just a lil smaller than the head or collar ,play with one to see how it works put it in a vise then drill it till top cuts off...a bit with a center piece would be my choice to keep it centered in rivet....


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

It would help i know if you could grab the other end with a pair of visegrips....which may not be possible if it spun drilling id use a small grinder with cut off wheel...then punch them though

If you use grinder be gentle that cut off wheel will eat that soft aluminum up quick!


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Welp...not the best news here.
Some sort of critter has started gnawing at my keel. 



























Any idea how to best repair these spots? This sucks. They got all the way down into the white part on the inside of the plastic


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

Wow thats crazy ...probably marine tex my guess ,thats either a rat or squirrel his cusin....🤨


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

Thats one serious critter.. a rat trap might get that one but there will be more.

There is a product called Gator Patch, made for kayak keel repair, mainly for strength at the part of the keel where people ram the rocks or drag them up a hill.. its a sun cure epoxy material. Tuff stuff, I know a couple people who have used in and it works well.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Thanks for the input. I got some stuff ordered so hopefully it gets in soon and I can get going on that.

Next question: For some reason there were some screws left in one of the wooden seats, and upon removal they have obviously left holes. Do I need to fill these before starting the staining and varnishing process on the wood? 








Will they like gather water or cause issues down the line?
If I was to fill them, how do I do so? What do I use?

The holes do not go all the way through the wood...they only go half way through


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

I'd fill then before sanding for sure, probably with odd school (wood) wood putty, not the new make believe plastic wood filler.
If they are on the top side they will for sure gather and hold water.\, eventually causing rot.

Depending on your level of detail desired you could get a dowell, drill theholes to a known diameter, size of the dowell, cut plugs, glue them up and pound into the hole. At HD and places you can find actual cut plugs for that purpose>
After dry sand away smooth, stain and finish.

If you go the filler route, sand stain first, then, you can get colored wood putty, you may have to mix n match the color and fill afterwards with mixed color as close as you can get.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Thanks for the info. Makes sense on the dowel idea. I'll check some of that out today at the store


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

krash said:


> If'n it was me. I'd remove the seats, ditch the paint striper, and sand them down to bare wood. Now you have a good starting point and depending on the wood type where you go next. Oil, Stain, or Epoxy coating.
> Look up Epoxy Works, there you can find some issues like Coating Small Parts, with great ideas a projects refinishing wood.
> 
> 
> The poly hull is a whole different issue, but there is an old article about flame treating plastics.


Krash, where are you from/grow up? I only know a handful of people that use the phrase “If’n it was me” and I am related to all of them and 3 are deceased!


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## Redlig (Feb 27, 2017)

Edit*...i was just kidding around hope it gets taken the right way 




JC Designs said:


> Krash, where are you from/grow up? I only know a handful of people that use the phrase “If’n it was me” and I am related to all of them and 3 are deceased!


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Question for you guys: I am sanding one of the seats down in order to get it stained and then varnished. During the sanding, these ridges started to appear. 









Should I be planning to sand it to where those ridges are completely gone before re-staining and varnishing? It already feels incredibly smooth and I'm using 220grit. 

Here's a spot where I Tried to really sand through those ridges. Is this what I should try to get it all to look like?









Other question: Should I just abandon the varnish idea and use some clear poly instead?


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

My opinion? Finish sand and clear. Leave the ridges....that's how I roll


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

This puppy is coming along....









Can't wait for it to be all done now. I'm getting so close. Seeing that first refinished seat in the sunlight really made me motivated ! Purdy!

I'm documenting a bunch of this on video too and will make some youtubez out of it if y'all want to watch them in the future. 

Anyway, I have a *propulsion question:*
I'm starting to envision that one of the main ways I'd like to use this is for warm water, shallow fishing on ponds and lakes, for species like carp. This is largely driven by where I am living and what's available to me. (St Louis)
(Idk really where to find carp around here but I have some ideas...starting with backwaters/Horseshoe lake type areas off the Meramec and the Missouri.)
So if I wanted to pole this thing around for carp and bass in the shallows, what would be a good basic recommendation for a pole for a newbie?

Also- the canoe is wide and doesn't track that straight. At least not for me. I have a wooden oar and a kayak paddle already, but they were somewhat hard to propel the boat with as it kept wanting to turn. Would poling be different?


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

JC Designs said:


> Krash, where are you from/grow up? I only know a handful of people that use the phrase “If’n it was me” and I am related to all of them and 3 are deceased!


Born n raised in sunny south florida, Miami & Key Largo, except for 4+ years in the service '68-'73 never lived further north than Cooper City.


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

orey10m - that seat is looking right.
If you are sitting in that rear seat paddling it won't track straight, balance the load. For better performance solo paddle/pole from the center seat. The old Discovery is a very wide canoe, 13'1" x 42.5" so tracking is not its best quality, but with the molded keel and the weight balanced it should be OK.

At 42" wide you will need a very long double bladed kayak paddle. 
I have a full carbon extra long kayak paddle that works well but my canoe is 28" wide and the gunwale is only 12" high. Also have a bent blade canoe paddle its a toss up which I like better for paddling.

Poling won't make the canoe track better when gliding, but you have a little more control when pushing. I had a 12' pole but upgrade to 14'. 12 was just to short, had an Indian River 14', and before that a Mohawk 14' with 3 seat solo/tandem setup and best poling position I found was standing just behind the middle seat. With a person in the bow you can stand in the stern.


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

As I was going along asking you guys these questions in this thread, seeking your feedback, and updating you on the status of the makeover, I also was recording alot of the process on video and am now turning it into some YouTube videos.
The first one is at this link, and you should be able to find the next one in the series from there: 




I'll post a couple more over the coming weeks

It should be cool to watch because you'll see some of the things we discussed in here play into the videos based on the guidance you all shared with me as I went along


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## orey10m (Aug 19, 2019)

Here's the next two installments


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