# Tom Gordon-Chris Morejohn Partnership(Not a Rumor)



## ranno (Apr 7, 2012)

On a previous post was a conversation about a Tom Gordon/ Chris Morejohn relationship.
I called Tom and with his permission said I could post the following information:
Tom did confirm it was their goal to have a flats skiff in the water in the next 100 days. They believe it will be the "finest skiff on the water." A naval engineer is working out the final details before it ends up in the shop floor for production.The boat will be flat transom design for a 70 or 90 hp(not mid boat as some have speculated). Tom's & Chris's idea, after it is built, to give it to select guides for a week to pick the boat apart to detect any potential flaws.They already know what will be right about the boat, he wants to put the boat in the hands of the best of the best to tell him what's wrong with the boat.Tom & Chris will make any adjustments as needed and then put it into production mid-2015. Simply Brilliant !!


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Bout time
but from Chris' post he just stated he will be sailing the caribbean for a while. Hows that gunna work?


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## ranno (Apr 7, 2012)

I asked Tom the same question.Apparently this idea has been in the works for awhile.They have worked communication issues out in advance.


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## shiprock8 (Sep 23, 2013)

Sounds like it's not going to be a micro skiff.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Chris posted some pics that I think is what they are doing. And it wasn't a micro at all. But Chris did state that he wants to build a Glades skiff better than his previous design. So there is hope. And I hope I can afford one. I doubt it


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

Yeah it's pretty easy to see it's not a rumor all you have to do is read Chris's Blog it's there in black and white. lol!

Chris is just designing the rig not building it, Tom and the Isla boat works team will be building it. You want to see it go to his blog there a shear pics on there.


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## ranno (Apr 7, 2012)

From what Tom expressed to me, the boat on Chris site is not the same design, not the same boat.The boat will be a flat transom design with the engine attached at the transom.The hull will come in at about 18' in length, no sponson's.Most of the boats are typically designed around the engine. I don't want to steal Tom's, thunder.He knows about this blog on microskiff and I am sure will respond when he is ready. From what I can understand, this is an exceptionally well thought out boat with no small details overlooked.Built from the prop up, literally !


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## Rediculous (May 5, 2012)

> From what Tom expressed to me, the boat on Chris site is not the same design, not the same boat.The boat will be a flat transom design with the engine attached at the transom.The hull will come in at about 18' in length, no sponson's.Most of the boats are typically designed around the engine. I don't want to steal Tom's, thunder.He knows about this blog on microskiff and I am sure will respond when he is ready. From what I can understand, this is an exceptionally well thought out boat with no small details overlooked.Built from the prop up, literally !


The skiff Chris discusses on his blog, is his concept of the perfect glades stlye skiff. Powered by a 15hp. I don't think he has any plans to actually build one, he's basically just typing out loud. I don't see how it could be confusing, if you actually read the blog.

I'm sure whatever Tom and Chris are working on, is going to be amazing. Personally, I'd be more excited to see how that glades concept would turn out.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> From what Tom expressed to me, the boat on Chris site is not the same design, not the same boat.The boat will be a flat transom design with the engine attached at the transom.The hull will come in at about 18' in length, no sponson's.Most of the boats are typically designed around the engine. I don't want to steal Tom's, thunder.He knows about this blog on microskiff and I am sure will respond when he is ready. From what I can understand, this is an exceptionally well thought out boat with no small details overlooked.Built from the prop up, literally !


Well I guess I don't know how to read or look at the picture. He states on a picture "New Design i'am working on for Tom Gorden and his Islamorada Boat Works . He's commissioned me to come up with a new skiff to compete in the HPX, HB Professional, East Cape, Chittum skiff market" and there is a picture of a skiff drawing with a flat radius transom, trim tabs, and it states clearly the motor mounts on the back of the transom. If it's not it then Chris must have been drunk when he posted it.  

Geeze, lol But yes I will play along, the super top secret boat being designed  by Chris for Ilsamorada boatworks is not the one on his blog site nope not it!


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## captllama (Aug 7, 2013)

Email tom, he says within 30 days they should have something to show for the new skiff.

No, it is not the center mounted engine drawing one, that is something chris designed on his own and hopes tom uses.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Lol why dont you guys just leave Tom and Chris alone for now, let em work. Theyre gunna build what they wanna build regardless of who emails who about what etc


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## captllama (Aug 7, 2013)

I agree. The intention of my email was to ask if I could visit his shop, also talked about doing stuff to my boat.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

awesome these guys want to put their new boat in the hands of the best of the best. Please pass along that I will be back in Fl. in about a week or so and would love the opportunity to see how many cat fish I can put on it's deck.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

70-90 hp

Shouldin't this be in OFF TOPIC, that's not very micro.

Also, I roll my eyes with the "finest skiff on the water" talk. There is not very much "fine" about a polyester or vinylester boat, because epoxy makes a lighter, longer lasting boat. The "esters" can make an OK boat, but in a light weight boat, the resin will fatigue, so it has to be made heavy. If people wanted to know how to build a fine boat, they would start looking at cored epoxy sail boats from the late 70's (which are still competitive, all these years later), and work their way up to modern 18' sailing skiffs technology. Something like this:

http://www.thedailysail.com/dinghy/10/57242/0/brett-van-munster-on-building-an-18ft-skiff

Now, if someone would use this sort of kevlar-carbon skiff technology in a fishing boat, and add a few nice hatch lids here and there, and make it completely self recovering and able to haul donkey with a 25 hp outboard, and put some real engineering work into the transition from displacement to planing modes without squatting- then they could say that they are doing what the technology allows. 

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the crop of high dollar boats that are being made, but they are a far cry from what the technology would allow.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> Email tom, he says within 30 days they should have something to show for the new skiff.
> 
> No, it is not the center mounted engine drawing one, that is something chris designed on his own and hopes tom uses.


Right, but there is another picture on his blog besides the skiff with the engine mounted in the center of the boat, there is one where the motor mounts on the back on something called the transom. Now it may I have been revised since that drawing but it's still there! ;D

 I'm getting dizzy, feel like I'm trying to help someone in the outboard maintenance section! Buy em books, send em to school, and still have to do it for them.

Here you go, right from his blog! motor isn't in the center at least that's what I read!


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## captllama (Aug 7, 2013)

> > Email tom, he says within 30 days they should have something to show for the new skiff.
> >
> > No, it is not the center mounted engine drawing one, that is something chris designed on his own and hopes tom uses.
> 
> ...


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## hillcharl (Feb 7, 2011)

Why is there so much confusion over this???? It's pretty clear in his blog.


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## Otterdog (Feb 8, 2014)

In resonse to Time Machine's comment on modern technology I can add this. Helcel Corporation has been manufacturing honeycomb pannels for years. They supply some of the racing yacht companies with carbon fiber products. Their carbon fiber panels are used in boats, planes and I suspect the space industry. 
I'm surprised the microskiff manufactures have yet to incorporate this technology in their manufacturing. Is anyone familiar with Hexcel and boats?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

The industries you listed have huge budgets. Yacht racing has"F*** you money" budgets. I suspect the reason the microskiff industry does not incorporate that technology is because it could price them right out of the market. The weight savings wouldn't be enough to justify the cost. We are talking about poling skiffs here, not spacecraft.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

I would hate to see the price on a Chittum. If they used prepeg and a autoclave to build em . This is a fishing boat not F1 race car. I read once that Morejohn thought Eglass was enough for these little boats. And that all the fancy Kevlar and Carbon was over kill in price/benefit ratio. Plus you need to take into the planing or lack there of. The sail boats ride thru the water. These skiffs ride on the water. And a stiff hull with zero flex. Along with it being feather light makes for a jackhammer kind of ride. I kinda like the feel of my hulls flexing under foot  The industry has already gotten these things to float skinnier than most fish swim. Plus they already cost too much in my opinion. Crazy that boats like Ankona are considered deals  I'm sure you could build one better. But at what cost? [smiley=2cents.gif]


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

Got to chime in here... 
Sailboats have been able to plane for decades.. Search the International 18' or 49er, both stupid fast and built to plane. For a real show of small sailboat tech, check out the International Moth. 

Of course I agree that poling skiffs are designed with a somewhat greater demand for usage (running vs. fishing), while these tech racing sailboats are really just intended to go. However the advancements made in their design/engineering have and will continue to advance all vessels in one way or another..

Space age technologies have a trickle down affect... Hence Chittum's skiffs claim to using materials that were originally developed for NASA (which is true). Chittum has been building an incredible boat for a few years now, I toured his facilities while one hull was being infused and another was getting rigged, having fished many if not all of the 'great boats' (Maverick, Hewes, Hells Bay, East Cape, Mitzi, Pathfinder, Contender, Mako, Egret, Brett's homebuilt  ;D etc),  I can say I'm most impressed with Chittum, at this point nothing competes(If funds were a none-issue). But like anything fantastic, they come with a price, his boats started $64,000 BMT, and that was 2-3 years ago. 

I expect this debate to continue, but the reality is that there is a butt for every seat, regardless of price so long as there is an associated perception of value.  


I'm excited to see what these guys come up with! Every time an 'advancement' is made it affects the market/perception of the other boats out there! Often it puts a smile on someone's face and a few more dollars into Florida's economy. 

In the long and short we all know that we fish from what we want/can afford/meets our needs.. I sight fished primarily from a SUP for the last two years and just recently bought a NMZ. I'd love a Chittum, but can't justify the cost given my income and time allotment for fishing.. Then again, I could sleep in a skiff, but I can't run 45mph and pole in 6" in my house. lol. For now I'm lucky enough to have great friends with fantastic tools(see _boats_) to take me fishing when I'm not on my own craft.

Maybe we could keep it a little less serious, the semantic sharking is not benefiting the discussion. 

Cheers


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

> they come with a price, his boats started $64,000 BMT, and that was 2-3 years ago.


First, I want to say that I certainly do not want to put down someones efforts, particularly when they have been very impressive. What I could have said a little better is if you have a budget of over 60k for a little boat, it might be a benefit to use the best lamination possible. Kevlar skin, carbon reinforced, foam or honeycomb core- what ever the state of the art is to allow low weight, which would allow lower hp. Just as an historical point, the early efforts in high tech sail boats were basically back yard efforts by sailors that wanted a better boat. And as far as the idea of these boats going through the water- well sometimes they go through, and sometimes they go over, and occasionally they haul ____. Plus, look at the shape of the modern skiff- it's kind of wedge shaped- it's not just a style exercise- it's made so that it can shift to planing mode very easily. There was a lot of work in this sort of design. One of the benifits that the sail boat people have is the natural selection from competition.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> Got to chime in here...
> Sailboats have been able to plane for decades.. Search the International 18' or 49er, both stupid fast and built to plane. For a real show of small sailboat tech, check out the International Moth.
> 
> Of course I agree that poling skiffs are designed with a somewhat greater demand for usage (running vs. fishing), while these tech racing sailboats are really just intended to go. However the advancements made in their design/engineering have and will continue to advance all vessels in one way or another..
> ...


Yeah I will disagree with that statement, epoxy boats have issue to they have great tensile strength but lack some compression strenght, they are prone to pressure dings, just as surfboards are, all my fellow surfers on here will know what I'm talking about. Also the boat is Tippy as all get out, but that's what happens when you have an 16' hull under an 18' cap. Does it float shallow, easy to pole, and dry sure it is. But to say nothing competes is just not true, they sell very few boats and have delivery issues as well with the ones they sell. At least they did a year ago. 

If epoxy was so great and nothing compared to it, other manafactures would be using it like HB, Yellow fin, Egret, etc etc all of those guys have the resources to build epoxy boats and it's not because of price they chose not to.  When your buying a $55k flats boat trust me 10k isn't going to stop you from buying the cats meow, or a $450k Kingfish CC another 100k would a drop in the bucket if it meant it was really something that didn't compare to anything else out there. 

But then again this is my opinion just like your statement was yours. 

Creek tight lines


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Epoxy also doesnt flex like poly or vinyl ester resins. You dont think your boat flexes much as its going down the river, but it does. Epoxy boats, just like epoxy surfboards ride very stiff


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

Yep- if you want something that rides like a Bertram, polyester will do fine. You will need to live with the weight though. And the weight will give a smoother ride. It's amazing how much better my Hobie power skiff rides with two teenagers standing at the bow, trying to look cool.


If you want to go for light weight (related with low draft), epoxy wins hands down. For example, take a look at 1708 cloth, the "08" part is mat to go between the layers so that it doesn't delaminiate with polyester. As for fragile surfaces being prone to damage- yep, if you have only one or two layers of 4 oz cloth, it's going to be fragile. One thing to remember about composites is that you cant really separate the cloth from the resin- they work together. And for durability of light boats, racing sail boats from polyester have a one or two year competitive life. In epoxy- it's decades. Polyester is prone to micro-fracturing.

So the "optimum" skiff, does not really exist without some definition of what you mean by optimum- but if you wan to go for minimum weight (and remember, you can't cheat displacement), it's my impression that you want to look at canoes and airplanes. Carbon in the structure, kevlar in the skin, and epoxy sticks to both of these. Add to this some fininte element analysis of the structure, and some model testing of the shape, and it's my opinion that you could make an 18' "superskiff".

Also, I was looking at one of the websites of the high dollar skiffs, and they talk about their design patent, then describe all of the performance benefits from this design. One thing to remember, a design patent is just on the styling or looks of an object. If they wanted protection on the features that provide performance benefits, they should have tried for a real patent. So good luck in enforcing patent protection on a patent that does not really exist.


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Hey guys, just saw this thread while ashore here in Antigua. I 
Hope to answer a few questions about what is up with Tom Gordon's new upcoming skiff. On my blog I have posted several skiff ideas to get the public thinking outside the box. I have been trying to hopefully get people to see how my old boats came about, their flaws and what I would change now.
Toms boat design is explained there in detail to see what and how I came up with its concept. I sent Tom my lines drawings and he has given them to a computer navel architect that has gone over all the numbers to clarify my numbers and thinking.
It's now been in Toms court to decide what he likes and doesn't. I have no stake in any skiff company at all, I just give out opinions and advice if asked for free. But I can be commissioned to design a skiff or sailboat.
At present I will be in Antigua this summer. Tom and I talk via Skype. When ready I will most likely fly to the states to go over any questions  with the first skiff if needed. It's his boat project.
I will be posting a very detailed cost break down of what any flats skiff really costs in my blog in a few weeks. I am amazed that nobody has done this to date to show that the real reason that most skiffs cost a lot is simply "Because the market will bear it". From my blog post you will be able to see what my old skiffs cost at the time to build and what they cost now. Very simple to do but its a tedious read because I list every single cent that goes into a skiff from a one off to a super hyped up space age superman skiff of today. It's all in the details .
I feel I did well in designing small skiffs because I was a sailor first and knew about all these high tech materials way back in the 80s when Hewes, Maverick ,etc. where still using wood for core. 
Honeycomb cores work , as all materials will in its designed place. There are tons of different resin formulas, stiffnesses , in epoxy and polyester. All work with some working very well in the right design but at a higher cost. 
Take a Whipray mold , A Chittum mold today build each in polyester , and each in epoxy . Both boats will work great with the epoxy high teck boats only costing the resins cost and a bit more in labor.
I have a simple polyester skiff that I use daily in my lifestyle of living on the water that is almost 30 years old with no show of breaking down. Same with epoxy as that's what my sailboat was built with. It's just passed its 26,000 ocean sailing mile mark.
Any questions just email me at - [email protected]


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## Sheremeta (Nov 29, 2010)

I have a question about the spray rails... 






Just kidding looking forward to your new joint venture.


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## TurnMeLooseFLKeys (May 19, 2013)

Will Mr. Gordon's new skiff be under the Islamorada Boatworks name?


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## Lifeaquatic (Jul 18, 2010)

> Hey guys, just saw this thread while ashore here in Antigua. I
> Hope to answer a few questions about what is up with Tom Gordon's new upcoming skiff. On my blog I have posted several skiff ideas to get the public thinking outside the box. I have been trying to hopefully get people to see how my old boats came about, their flaws and what I would change now.
> Toms boat design is explained there in detail to see what and how I came up with its concept. I sent Tom my lines drawings and he has given them to a computer navel architect that has gone over all the numbers to clarify my numbers and thinking.
> It's now been in Toms court to decide what he likes and doesn't. I have no stake in any skiff company at all, I just give out opinions and advice if asked for free. But I can be commissioned to design a skiff or sailboat.
> ...


With Chris's input and design as well as Tom's oversight during construction I am sure this skiff will be a strong contender in the market. Its going to be interesting to see this progress.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

My gosh listen to yourselves. It a darn boat. What the heck could they design that you haven't already seen

You sound like girls talking about a prom dress

IMHO


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## Sheremeta (Nov 29, 2010)

> My gosh listen to yourselves. It a darn boat. What the heck could they design that you haven't already seen
> 
> You sound like girls talking about a prom dress
> 
> IMHO



;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Parrboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I love that the designer of the skiff and hells bay skiffs says the rediculously high cost of these skiffs is because "the market will bear it" with no other justification and the guys that own these skiffs will defend the price they pay to the end of the earth. You're talking about a tiny poling skiff and the damn thing costs more than my first house! At least you will be the coolest kid at the ramp


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## Rediculous (May 5, 2012)

> I love that the designer of the skiff and hells bay skiffs says the rediculously high cost of these skiffs is because "the market will bear it" with no other justification and the guys that own these skiffs will defend the price they pay to the end of the earth. You're talking about a tiny poling skiff and the damn thing costs more than my first house! At least you will be the coolest kid at the ramp


The people buying these skiffs, are doing far more to stimulate Fl and the nations economy than you or I. At least these boats are being built here, employing americans, unlike most auto makers now (and look at the cost of new trucks, sheesh). I don't really care what their reasons are for buying a high end skiff, at a premium price. The fact of the matter, is this country needs and thrives off markets like this. Face it, boats are a luxury, no matter their cost. Have you not noticed, that almost all industries operate under this code? "Coolest kid at the ramp" :... the jealousy and hate, just oozes from your post.


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## Rediculous (May 5, 2012)

> My gosh listen to yourselves. It a darn boat. What the heck could they design that you haven't already seen
> 
> You sound like girls talking about a prom dress
> 
> IMHO


Your ignorance is astounding... unless, you're being clever/sarcastic, which I highly doubt.

It's not like the Whipray or Waterman were gamechangers, or anything... Right??? 

just sayin', IMHO, :   :-*


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## Parrboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I assure you I'm neither jealous nor do I hate the folks who own these boats but I appreciate your opinion. Just pointing out something I find ironic.


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