# Tarpon Leader recipe



## ifsteve

I suggest you get a copy of Andy Mills A Passion for Tarpon and Bill Battle High Rollers. Read and reread them. Very interesting stuff and they both discuss leaders in detail.

Good luck!


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## Snookdaddy

There are about 100 ways to tie leaders and everyone has a system they like.  Here's a quick, stealthy leader system that's easy to tie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZBp1DfSUMo

The one above uses 30lb as the class, so you can get by using standard "blood knots"..  If you were to drop down to 16lb or 20lb class, I'd use an "improved blood knot" if tying the same style leader.

Personally, I use a perfection loog to attach the butt section to the fly line, a bimini loop to attach 16lb class to the butt section and a slim beauty to attach the 16lb class to 60lb bite tippet..  I use a leader stretcher, so I need the bimini loop for quick fly changes..  You do not need a stretcher if you use flouro bite tippet..

Start by using a simple system like the one in the attached video and then experiment with different knots until you find one you like..

A bimini knot and a huffnagle knot sounds cool, but isn't worth a crap if you do not know how to tie them..  Practice makes perfect..

Also, Use knots that are simple enough to tie leaders on the boat, if needed...  It a PITA to tie a 30 turn bimini with a string or tarpon bearing down on your skiff at 80' out... 

As Skiffin metioned above, both books are a must read if you want to learn a ton about tarpon fishing with a fly rod..  

Another great book is "Tarpon on Fly" by Rob Fordyce.. Andy's book is spendy, but is great reading..

Skiffin... It's Bill Bishop / High Rollers, but who's counting...


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## reelaggressive

Snookdaddy answer covered everything you need to know.

For customers on my boat I don't do anything less than 30lb. For my personal rod I drop down to 16lb.


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## Bill_Laminack

Thanks for the replies. Yes indeed Andy Mills' book is SPENDY!


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## lemaymiami

Since all my fly rods (7, all the way up to 12wts) have permanent butt section with a surgeon's loop at the bitter end... my tarpon leaders are also looped at the tippet end -then spliced to 80lb fluoro. Tippets are usually 20lb hard Mason with a bimini twist at each end. One end gets a doubled surgeon's loop = the other end is attached to the 80lb (occasionally as light at 60 or 40 fluoro...) with a Hufnagel knot. If you really get into tarpon fishing it's very helpful to tie up two leaders at a time joined by a double lenght shock tippet. You then loop to loop each pair and wind 10 or 20 or as many as you want on a single leader spool. To use just pull off the top leader pair, cut the shock tipped in two and you have a ready made in your hand... Here's a pic or two of what I'm talking about....









This shows the doubled surgeon's loop on the tippet end of the leader.









Here's the bimini to Hufnagel for connecting tippet to shocker









Here's several "leader wheels" loaded for use with those doubled leaders. First number is tippet, second the shocker...

Hope this helps.


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## Bill_Laminack

Ok, let me make sure that I understand what you are saying here. A permanent 80lb Butt Section. Loop to Loop connection to Class Tippet, and a Bimini to Huffnaggle Bite Tippet. Right? 

Obviously the Hard Mason is not Flourocarbon. What about the Bite tippet? 

Thanks Bob!


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## crd05

If you are in the Panhandle you will get weird looks throwing anything but straight 60


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## Snookdaddy

> Ok, let me make sure that I understand what you are saying here. A permanent 80lb Butt Section. Loop to Loop connection to Class Tippet, and a Bimini to Huffnaggle Bite Tippet. Right?
> 
> Obviously the Hard Mason is not Flourocarbon. What about the Bite tippet?
> 
> Thanks Bob!


I don't think Capt. Lemay is using 80lb for the butt end.. Typically 5-7' of 50lb to 60lb is used for the butt of a 10 - 12wt. ( I use 50lb )..

I use Berkley "Big Game" 50lb and find it is plenty stiff enough to turn over tarpon flies..

I believe Bob was referring to using 80lb for the bite tippet.. I use 60lb for the bite, but the water I fish is relatively clear compared to the water clarity found in the Glades..

The huffnagle knot has great strength, but I do not like the kink it makes in the line so close to the fly..


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## lemaymiami

Pretty much what Snook just said... Permanent butt sections spliced to every fly line for me, size and length depending on size of fly line... Here's a breakdown (and all butt sections are just ordinary mono -we've always used Ande premium and it's a pretty good standard material...)

6 or 7wt -- 30lb, four feet long
8 or 9wt -- 40lb, four to 4.5 feet long
10wt -- 50lb, 4.5 to five feet long
11 or 12wt-- 60lb, six feet long.

None of this is set in stone, a bit longer or a bit shorter butt section won't kill the deal. I'd use this as a starting point.

With a surgeon's loop in the bitter end that butt section is ready for an IGFA legal fly tippet (with or without a shock tippet..). We've taken many baby tarpon up to and over 15lb with no shocker at all - just straight 20lb Fluoro, about four or five feet long, looped to one of the butt sections mentioned above.

As far the Hufnagle goes - it would be pretty hard to find a stronger knot but you're right about it not laying straight. When we're only using a forty pound shocker I only use a Slim Beauty knot (with no Bimini at all...). We're able to use that heavy 80lb fluoro shock tippet, Hufnagle and all, because most of our tarpon are in dark waters... In super clear, Keys type, water I wouldn't dare use a heavy shock tippet under any circumstances (it's better to get the bite, then worry about staying connected, than not get any bite at all...)


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## Bill_Laminack

Thanks Bob! Super helpful!


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## natasha1

I bumping this thread as I am having some issues on my tarpon leader tying.  I am not concerned about section lengths, but mainly knots.

I bought a 50 pound scale to use to test the knots on the leaders and this is what i have found:

- The improved blood is slipping at about 16 pounds (20 pound class)
- The Bimini + huffnagle slips at 15-16 pounds (20 pound class)
- the Bimini + location x knot is 100% (20 pound) but i hate the double line space between the knot and the Bimini.

I am seating these knots like a crazy person, I dont get why they are slipping. Should I be ok with this efficiency?

edit, the slim beauty tested at 100%. Probably sticking with this knot.


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## lemaymiami

You might not be tying up that Hufnagle properly if it's slipping.  As I tie up leaders they're anchored to the forward cleat on my skiff (in my garage at home -not on the water...) and I occasionally actually break one off if I'm using too much heat... I've never seen one slip at all -even ones that I've broken....

At a fishing club I belonged to years ago (the Tropical Anglers Club in south Miami, 1976 to 1983) they had a tensile strength meter where we could test our knots and the breaking strength of the lines we were buying...  In that era if you were chasing records it was important to know exactly what the true breaking strength was on a given spool of line since you couldn't rely on the labels.  My usual routine back then was to run three tests on each new spool of line (these were one or two pound spools of Ande usually, and would be in use for a year or two before needing to be replaced - we used a ton of line deep jigging and doing silly things like trying to take a sailfish on 6lb line...) then note the results on a piece of tape on the end of each spool.  To do the test properly you had to make a bimini twist on each end of the line sample where it would be anchored then stress the until it broke.... In every case the single line was the only thing that broke -never a bimini that was tied properly....


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## jlb05f15

When I was testing Huffnagle connections regularly, as Bob said, the leader always broke in the single line class. Typically, with mason and rio hard alloy 20#, I would pull 20-22 lbs before breaking. Just my experience.


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## natasha1

This is the huffnagle right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iCLzbkmNUg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is the knot I am tying that keeps slipping. It doesn't seem like rocket science.


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## lemaymiami

Very interesting - the Hufnagle I was taught (way back in the late seventies...) is a bit different...  It starts out exactly as shown with the heavy side, then the doubled line from the Bimini is passed through it as shown, then the doubled line is pulled tightly to jam the bimini up against the heavy leader and the knot is ended with a seriies of half hitches around the heavy leader (usually four or five).  If you look at the knot pictures I've already posted you can see what I'm talking about in the second picture....

By the way, unlike the video, I never trim anything until the entire connection is completed. With the surgeon's loop end of the tippet (see first photo) secured to the cleat, the first portion of the Hufnagle (the heavy line) is pulled tight from each end, then the tag end of the heavy end is pulled up against the bimini -while the doubled line is held tight and before the final half hitches - that's how the entire connection is kept tight and together until it's completed...


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## natasha1

Thanks for info. I think I have my process squared away now.


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## Finn Maccumhail

Resurrecting this in front of my quest for tarpon this year.

I see a lot of people using different knots and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but frankly I'm not confident in myself tying some of those knots so what are the thoughts on this set-up:

fly line--> loop-to-loop (perfection)--> 60# flouro butt section--> double-uni knot to 30# class tippet--> double-uni knot to 60# flouro bite/shock--> fly

I use the double-uni extensively and have absolute confidence in it. I can tie it in my sleep. But I don't see anybody using it for their tarpon leaders.


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## Snookdaddy

> Resurrecting this in front of my quest for tarpon this year.
> 
> I see a lot of people using different knots and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but frankly I'm not confident in myself tying some of those knots so what are the thoughts on this set-up:
> 
> fly line--> loop-to-loop (perfection)--> 60# flouro butt section--> double-uni knot to 30# class tippet--> double-uni knot to 60# flouro bite/shock--> fly
> 
> I use the double-uni extensively and have absolute confidence in it. I can tie it in my sleep. But I don't see anybody using it for their tarpon leaders.


That will work and I have been known to do the same thing while out on a boat, out of leaders and the fish are coming fast.. It will work.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden

> Resurrecting this in front of my quest for tarpon this year.
> 
> I see a lot of people using different knots and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but frankly I'm not confident in myself tying some of those knots so what are the thoughts on this set-up:
> 
> fly line--> loop-to-loop (perfection)--> 60# flouro butt section--> double-uni knot to 30# class tippet--> double-uni knot to 60# flouro bite/shock--> fly
> 
> I use the double-uni extensively and have absolute confidence in it. I can tie it in my sleep. But I don't see anybody using it for their tarpon leaders.


I cannot emphasize enough the importance of that one statement regarding big tarpon on fly.


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## coconutgroves

> Resurrecting this in front of my quest for tarpon this year.
> 
> I see a lot of people using different knots and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but frankly I'm not confident in myself tying some of those knots so what are the thoughts on this set-up:
> 
> fly line--> loop-to-loop (perfection)--> 60# flouro butt section--> double-uni knot to 30# class tippet--> double-uni knot to 60# flouro bite/shock--> fly
> 
> I use the double-uni extensively and have absolute confidence in it. I can tie it in my sleep. But I don't see anybody using it for their tarpon leaders.


I run similar, but do an albright from the class to the shock.  I've done huffnagles and biminis, but when on the water and in the boat, the albright can be tied quickly and holds it strength.

From butt to class, I do the double uni.  That is a great knot - easy to tie, quick and can really hold some strength since each uni pulls against one another.

On your rig, you would have to double the 30 lb line over to get the double uni to bite correctly against the 60.  The difference between 30lb and 60lb is substantial - that is why the albright and huffnagles are used here - they are good at joining two lines that drastically different sizes.


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## Finn Maccumhail

> Resurrecting this in front of my quest for tarpon this year.
> 
> I see a lot of people using different knots and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but frankly I'm not confident in myself tying some of those knots so what are the thoughts on this set-up:
> 
> fly line--> loop-to-loop (perfection)--> 60# flouro butt section--> double-uni knot to 30# class tippet--> double-uni knot to 60# flouro bite/shock--> fly
> 
> I use the double-uni extensively and have absolute confidence in it. I can tie it in my sleep. But I don't see anybody using it for their tarpon leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> I run similar, but do an albright from the class to the shock.  I've done huffnagles and biminis, but when on the water and in the boat, the albright can be tied quickly and holds it strength.
> 
> From butt to class, I do the double uni.  That is a great knot - easy to tie, quick and can really hold some strength since each uni pulls against one another.
> 
> *On your rig, you would have to double the 30 lb line over to get the double uni to bite correctly against the 60.  The difference between 30lb and 60lb is substantial *- that is why the albright and huffnagles are used here - they are good at joining two lines that drastically different sizes.
Click to expand...

You think so? I use the double-uni to connect braid to flouro leaders on conventional gear with no issue- 20# PP (6# diameter) to 20# flouro leaders and never had an issue at all.


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## coconutgroves

If it works for you - the issue I see is that larger flouro, bigger than 60, are tougher to tie a uni with. You don't get as many turns and the knot doesn't bite down as good. This is why people use the albrights and huffnaggles on these size tippets.

Doubling the 30 over as I said might be over engineering, but it would give me more confidence in the rig, which is the most important thing as Capt. Whidden pointed out.

The last thing you want to do is lose sleep over losing a fish. If you want 100% confidence, go bimini and huffnagle. That rig is hard to beat and is what the pros tie. Runner up is double uni and albright, imo.


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## Backwater

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1425510133

Take a look at this thread for those who are considering using straight 60.  You guys really need that fuse or you'll end up breaking rods and will not be able to break a fish off.


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## SemperFiSH

> http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1425510133
> 
> Take a look at this thread for those who are considering using straight 60.  You guys really need that fuse or you'll end up breaking rods and will not be able to break a fish off.



I lost a fly line last year like this. Rookie mistake,   but put too much pressure as the fish began a run when the last loop of fly line peeled back off the reel, the backing broke. Took the tip of the rod with it. I was able to recover the rod tip.  We cruised around looking for the fly line, but she was long gone.


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