# 8wt for Redfish and Bones



## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

I am looking at buying an 8 wt fly rod/reel for two reasons.

1) I want to start fly fishing for redfish here in Louisiana.
2) Going to Turks and Caicos for a week around New Years and want to get a bone on the fly.

I know these two fish will probably call for two contrasting styles of gear. I don't think im going to be capable of the super long cast by the end of the year even after working my tail off at it and taking lessons. With that being said should I lean more towards a faster rod for distance on the flats, or a softer rod for better accuracy in the marsh? If I wasn't going to turks id 100% be locked into the TFO mangrove. Is that a reasonable rod to try and fish bones for?


----------



## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

depends on what kinda rod you like to cast. moderate vs. fast. Most will get the job done. Go cast them and let us know what you end up with. I'm partial though..... :-X


----------



## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Rob, came across Marshfly on my search. Great looking rods and the journeyman is on my short list. Not set on Mangrove but seems like it would be a good candidate for me as a beginner.


----------



## JappyFish (Mar 1, 2014)

Definitely test the rod before you buy it. Plenty of high end rods out there that people buy and then decide "it's not for them."

Sometimes the best rods can be the least expensive.

Definitely practice your casting and windy days during practice will help coach you up.


----------



## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

http://www.laflyfish.com/

This site keeps a calendar of all the fly fishing clubs' events in Louisiana. They all have demo/casting events from time to time. Orvis in Baton Rouge also has a lot of beginner classes where you can cast some of their rods.


----------



## junkin35 (Nov 20, 2011)

Keith Richard in Lafayette owns/runs The Camp Fly School.
He is a FFF Master Casting Instructor and puts on several clinics throughout the year at a lake on his home property north of Lafayette. He focuses on sight fishing our LA marsh and is a wealth of knowledge. Check out his website or give him a call. He and his wife Debbie are amazing people and I promise you'll be glad you got in touch with him if your serious about taking on this endeavor. And good luck.


----------



## KnotHome (Jul 21, 2009)

You have plenty of time to get a cast of 75+ ft. going, and an 8 wt. will be great for reds and bones.
Don't lock onto a rod just because of a price point. I really think the TFO Pro Series would get more attention if it cost more. Like nearly everyone will tell you, cast before you buy.


----------



## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

As a beginning fly fisher, 1 rod will do just fine for both of your needs.  Don't get caught up in all the hype of 90' casts with beautiful tight loops unfolding and gently landing the fly within a foot of the bonefishes nose…that ain't reality for 99% of fly fisherman.

If I were you, I'd practice my azz off and get comfortable with a _really_ accurate 40'-50' cast you can make with 1-2 backcasts.  

Bonefish are not easy to spot for the beginner and a lot of times the damn things are 20'-30' away before you pick them up and then you get 1 shot…make it count.

IMO, the Mangrove would be a great rod to start with for both applications. I have a 6wt. I use for Reds and it's a good little stick.


----------



## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks for all the helpful information. I have spoken with the guys at Uptown Angler and they pointed me in the direction of an instructor who has 3 hr group classes every other weekend. Probably will start out taking a class with him and pick it up on my own after that. I have the fortune of having a couple friends that are pretty proficient at fly fishing out of the hopedale area. I would like to try every fly rod out there before buying but it simply isn't a reality. Just looking for a quality starter to mid range set up that I can get started with and put in a lot of time with before the end of the year hits.


----------



## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

My first 8 wt. was a St. Croix Rio Santos and cheap Okuma reel from academy.  I really like St. Croix rods and this one is a nice easy to cast mod./fast action rod for a very low price.  If I would be starting out now, I'd probably go with the Imperial because it's made in the US.  Here's a link to the thread I posted not that long ago of the setup I just got.  8 wt. St. Croix Legend Elite Saltwater and Cabelas/Lamson WLz 3.5 because the prices were so good.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1431534403

Another good beginner line of rods are the ones from TFO.  If you get a chance to take the drive up to BR you can check out the TFO line at Greentrout fly shop and stop by Orvis and check out their rods.  The 2 stores are both off of Perkins Rd.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Youz guyz make me want to cry!   :'(  So helpful all of ya'll!   


Knothome mentioned something about a TFO Pro Series, which is actually a TFO Kefty Krey Professional Series II.  Great rod to start with and only $159 or you can get the Starter rod called the NXT which at 1st glance looks like a BVK.  The NXT is only $135 and both rods casting characteristics are exactly the same.  I teach with these rods and they are well worth the money and reminds me of good quality rods we used and paid more for back in the day.

I fished with a BVK 9wt last Saturday and it was an easy throwing rod that shot very well.  So I think the 8wt version of that rod would also make a good go between rod for both reds and bones.  

If you are trying to save money, then look for a good used TFO 8wt BVK outfit on ebay or this board or the others we were talking about.

Remember you also have to have a reel and good quality fly line to contend with.

Look, like these guys are saying, there is nothing like learning good proper casting techniques.  I've seen guys with $1400 outfits not making much past 30ft and also guys with $100 starter outfits able to throw a 100ft flyline out of the tip top (last guide) of the fly rod.  So technique is critical.  

Like some of the guys are saying, if you get a good and consistant 50 to 60ft cast by the time you go on your Crooked Island trip, you'll do good and catch fish.  Besides, Crooked Islands doesn't get a lot of heavy pressure there.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

New Orleans is such easy fly fishing you could use a cane pole. Casts are 10' there and you will slay. You could literally use anything.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Geeze, don't tell us Florida Crackers about that!  [smiley=cry1.gif]

Our fish get hammered and we have to work to get them to eat!  Still, I do like an eat at LD 70ft+ cast as opposed to getting bit at the boat.   

If you ****-asses keep braggin publically about how great the fishin is there, then not long from now your fishing will be just like ours!   



Somebody's not gonna know what I meant by that and is gonna get all up in my binness about it!   ;D


----------



## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Don't think K3ande is from Louisiana. We do get some willing fish pretty close to the boat but I don't see anyone bragging . Wong stay that way for long though. Marsh is rapidly eroding and more and more boats out there every day. Many of whom are visitors that want to experience our great fishery. Thanks for all the help guys.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

No I'm from FL all the way. But first time fishing there I started winding up at some tailers at over 50' and the guide I was with was like WTF are you doing?!?! Thinking HE was the stupid one, I was like "You dont see those"??? He says, "you must be from Florida cuz we dont cast at fish that FAR away.... FAR! He said, son you need to cut that 14' leader to about 5' and reel in all that line off my deck." By the end of the day, I knew what he meant. Fat, Lazy and hungry redfish. It wasn't even fair.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2012)

If you are looking to jump into redfish and bones. maybe give the redtruck 1953 8wt. Its a solid 8wt entry/intermediate stick with a good action and wont bust the bank. i think theyre about 300 with a basic reel and some sort of line. I agree that getting really comfy at 30-40 is more important than being able to bomb a really long cast. if you cant get on the water to practice, find a neighborhood pond or park to work on accuracy and getting comfortable with your stick


----------



## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Saw a deal they had on a red truck 8wt with a loop evotec reel and fly line for $529. Seems like a pretty good deal for the whole package but couldn't find any reviews online. Has anyone fished a red truck before?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2012)

[td][/td]

Red Truck is a fairly new/small brand. I'd say depends on where you want to be at on the 8wt range of rods. The loop Eco tech is a great reel for reds and salt species that can get into backing. No question about the quality of a loop reel. Is the Evo the same as a top of the line loop reel? No. Is it a good reel? Yes. I like the diesel rods, I don't have one but have thrown a couple of them and like them. I throw a red truck 1953. It's virtually just the older version of the same rod. I don't get into the salt that often, and when I do, I'm not going on guided trips. So I opted for the less expensive 1953 rod. Great rods, both models, but I think it should come down to your budget and how much you want to throw into a 8wt salt outfit. If I was fishing every weekend with the rod, I'd have gotten the outfit mentioned. If I had thousands to spend each year on big money trips, I'd spend the money to get a much more expensive setup. Why spend 6k on a trip and fish with a 300 setup? If you've got the extra cash and will get a lot of use out of it, or are chasing only trophy fish, get as nice of a setup as possible. One last thing on red truck. They are owned by Leland Fly and are super on service. Ask for Keith at red truck and he can and will answer any question imaginable. He helped design the rods and is often who you'll get if you chat with them online. I have his personal email and still will shoot him questions every once in a while. He always gets back to me and seems like just another cat that loves fishing. I haven't had a bad time ever with my red truck. It cast really accurate and hasn't let me down on redfish in the La marsh. And the 1953 cost about half or ¾ of some of the big dollar salt rods.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

WadinCajin,

Not sure about this Red Truck rod, how they feel, who else besides Leland is carrying them and where you can go to get it swapped out in case it breaks on ya. Not saying it's a bad rod or anything. You just need to throw the rod in compares to other rods once you learn how to properly throw.

Do some reading this board about some of the talks/threads we've had recently on 8wts.  Don't go out and buy something just because someone tells you to go buy it.  Go to a good shop or get with friends that have them and start casting them.  Find the rod that feels good to you.  Your casting ability can be different than others and you might need something that fits your style a little better and still give you the ability to grow into it. Get with someone like these guys suggested and help you get your casting techniques down pat, then go out to the shops and try the rods out again.  What feels best for you is the rod for you, not what would look the coolest on a vid that you try to pull off.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I met someone who was looking to get into fly fishing. Someone talked him into stepping right up to a $500 rod that was stiff and fast. He tried to use it and worked hard to figure out how to cast it. after some time and frustrations, he used it less and less and hardly used it when I met him. I put a $165 rod (at today's price) in his, adjusted his casting stroke and his eyes lit up and said that he could actually feel it load. He went out bought one on sale for $140 and is still fishing that rod years later.

Another thought....

Someone made a comment on "Just put some sort of line on it!"  *No! * Don't do that.  You can take a good rod and make it feel like crap with the wrong line on it.  The right line (and good quality line to boot) will make a crap rod feel good and a good rod feel great!!  So get good line.  Again, read some archives on that subject here on this board.  We've also had some good threads on that subject as well. In your case, I recommend a Rio Redfish weight forward floating line for what you are doing. It's a shorter but bigger casting head (remember, you are casting the line, not the fly). It loads easy, quick and short but can easily do 70ft. 

So I really recommend you get a more reasonably priced and easier to throw fly rod setup. Remember, you can still keep it as a backup in case you feel you out grew it or just sell it on ebay or to a buddy just starting out. Rods that I recommend you to try casting in a mid point range (something that will allow you to grow into it), are the TFO's NTX, Professional II, Mangrove, BVK. Also the Redington Predator and Vapen. Orvis makes some good mid point rods, as well as other mfgs.

That TFO NTX or the Professional II is a very sweet casting rod for the money and reminds me of a higher end rod we had back about 15 years ago. For $139/$169 respectively, you might be pleasantly surprise how nicely it fishes and cast, especially for someone dabbling into the fly fishing thing.


----------



## [email protected] (May 19, 2015)

WadinCajun,

I joined this forum to give a response to your dilemma. 
I'm in a similar situation in that I fish LA for reds regularly but have and will be taking various trips to target bonefish and permit (and I don't want to spend major $$$ to buy multiple rods for every occasion).

First, there appears to be a wealth of info here already. I'll second the advice that you should make the trip up to The Green Trout and Orvis in BR. Between the two, you will get the chance to cast a variety of rods at differ price levels while working with a knowledgeable staff.
Make sure to call the Green Trout ahead to schedule a time to met with the owner Larry. He's a great guy to talk to and will give you a very honest opinion.

Secondly, I'd suggest buying the rod that you feel comfortable with to redfish. 95% of the time, you will likely be using it to fish in Louisiana (meaning accurate 30-45 ft cast are a must). A 60 ft cast will be a very long cast here. Get what feels comfortable for you to in that range. For me, the TFO mangrove fit the bill. I think it's a fantastic redfish rod for LA, especially for a novice caster, as in it's very forgiving and easy to load at short distances and with few false cast. 
That being said, I find it doesn't have the action for the 70+ ft cast in windy conditions...but you will rarely need that in LA. I do find the mangrove has the butt to handle a serious fish for an 8 wt, a must when you could run across a 7 lb red, to a 30 lb black drum in the marsh, to a 30 lb jack on the coast at any second.

I'd also suggest looking at the Orvis Recon. It's a bit more $$ but appears to be pretty darn versatile and a great rod for the price.
This rod may very well give you the best of both worlds for a mid range price...decent lifting power with a more progressive to faster tip (compared to the mangrove).
I just bought the Recon and love it so far but haven't had the chance to really put it through the rigors yet.

As others have said, go and test them for yourself. See what feels best for you. If you don't want to test those rods at the store, send me a PM and I'll be happy to let you cast what I have and can make arrangements to get a few other rods from friends.

Lastly, if you are really interested/serious about fly fishing, don't be affraid to spend a little extra $$ to get a good set up that will last. I originally had a cheaper package deal and quickly began replacing things with more durable and reliable equipment. 
Plus, you will be happier from the start. For under $400, you should be able to get a very long lasting and effective set up. 

Hope this helps!


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> Youz guyz make me want to cry!   :'(  So helpful all of ya'll!
> 
> 
> Knothome mentioned something about a TFO Pro Series, which is actually a TFO Kefty Krey Professional Series II.  Great rod to start with and only $159 or you can get the Starter rod called the NXT which at 1st glance looks like a BVK.  The NXT is only $135 and both rods casting characteristics are exactly the same.  I teach with these rods and they are well worth the money and reminds me of good quality rods we used and paid more for back in the day.
> ...


Just to clear something up, I had bought both the 8wt and 9wt BVK's when they came out. They are NOTHING alike. The 8wt is a very slow whippy rod that cannot pick up a ton of line. The 9wt shoots line like a rocket. I sold the 8wt after it broke two times, I have had the 9wt with zero issues. I have caught several tarpon in the 60-70lb range on the 9wt BVK, and broke the 8wt twice casting. I was down in Islamorada and jumped an 80lb tarpon on the 9wt BVK on my paddleboard last week. I got about 5-6 jumps out of the fish before I locked down the drag to break it off. I didn't feel like being dragged around on the paddle board for a while with the 9wt. If I was throwing my 12, I would have fought that thing.  



On another note, I just got a MarshFly Journeyman 8wt (and 10wt) today. I haven't casted it in real world fishing scenarios just yet, but it does feel nice casting in the yard. They're fairly priced. I see myself using this rod quite a bit. 

The 10wt feels phenomenal casting in the yard. 


With that said, my favorite rod of all time (and the rod I have caught most of my fish on) was a cheap beater I got at BPS for $70 years ago that has since been discontinued. I have an 8wt Sage Salt and I still prefer to throw the cheap BPS rod over it. 


I have a like new TFO Pro II series 8 wt, and a Nautilus FWX 7/8 I will sell you for $350. I also have an Orvis Battenkill (Hydros) 8/10 if you prefer that. I have a brand new Rio Quickshooter untouched in the box I'll throw in for an extra $50.


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

> I am looking at buying an 8 wt fly rod/reel for two reasons.
> 
> 1) I want to start fly fishing for redfish here in Louisiana.
> 2) Going to Turks and Caicos for a week around New Years and want to get a bone on the fly.
> ...


Whatever you decide,

Making a timely and accurate cast will be the difference in catching a fish or not. Generally speaking, if you can cast 40-50 ft in 5 seconds or less and be accurate, you can catch almost any bonefish or redfish with a fly rod.


----------



## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

> Just to clear something up, I had bought both the 8wt and 9wt BVK's when they came out. They are NOTHING alike. The 8wt is a very slow whippy rod that cannot pick up a ton of line. The 9wt shoots line like a rocket. I sold the 8wt after it broke two times, I have had the 9wt with zero issues. I have caught several tarpon in the 60-70lb range on the 9wt BVK, and broke the 8wt twice casting. I was down in Islamorada and jumped an 80lb tarpon on the 9wt BVK on my paddleboard last week. I got about 5-6 jumps out of the fish before I locked down the drag to break it off. I didn't feel like being dragged around on the paddle board for a while with the 9wt. If I was throwing my 12, I would have fought that thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those Marshfly's look awesome. Made in Texas for $350.


----------



## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

> I am looking at buying an 8 wt fly rod/reel for two reasons.
> 
> 1) I want to start fly fishing for redfish here in Louisiana.
> 2) Going to Turks and Caicos for a week around New Years and want to get a bone on the fly.


Sent you a PM in regards to #2. T&C can be feast or famine, depending on where you go. Guides are *expensive* there, but there are alternatives.


----------



## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

Not sure where people get the notion certain outfits are better for certain species over another. The rod is a simple machine, it's inherent power determines the line weight it's most suitable to cast with, which in turn determines the size and type of flies you can present. Your casting skill will enable you to push the boundaries one way or the other.

In any event the fish have no idea what tool you're using to present the fly and ideally drag them back to the boat with. Any 8wt you happen to like or not like with a reasonably matched line is more than adequate for any redfish or bonefish you are likely to encounter anywhere on the planet under any circumstances where fly fishing is even remotely practical.

For the most part catching a tackle testing sized bonefish on a fly rod is exponentially more difficult than any redfish, but this difference has almost nothing to do with the outfit in your hand. It's more about the elusiveness and rarity of 10+lb bonefish and to some extent the conditions you're given where you encounter them and of course your abilty. 

In the Caribbean, other than a month or two of summer doldrums prevailing winds will be an obstacle to casting where 12-15mph is the norm. Your casting ability will make more of a difference in your success rate than any differences between 7-10wt outfits. Regardless of line weight tight loops are required to punch through wind and there's a delicate balance between line speed, loop tightness and presenting the fly without spooking the fish. Unless you're unusually gifted this level of casting proficiency takes years to achieve, but can be accomplished with almost any modern outfit regardless of brand or weight class. It's more about your ability than anything else. 

Another thing with bonefish is your leader construction is paramount where 9' is typically the minimum with 12'+ required in many cases. Whereas with redfish a straight 4'-6' piece of 30lb can work in most cases, far from ideal or practical, but still workable for the sake of comparison. Bottom line is even in ideal conditions turning the fly over gets exponentially more difficult as the leader gets beyond 9'-10' and even more so with weighted fly's. Add some wind from the wrong direction and you have your work cut out for you. 

Anyway, as with most things buy the best you can afford, but don't torture yourself over the first outfit. If you want quality and save some money too then buy the high end stuff used. Either way it's more important to get started with a proficient mentor and casting instruction than any difference between entry level and high end gear.

LA marsh red on an 8wt... (we didn't weigh or measure it, but I'm about 215lbs here)


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Stewie, nice of you to join in and welcome to the Microskiff fly board.  Great points you made as well and hope you join in with other threads here.  I haven't thrown the Recon yet but hear good things about it.

paint it black, thanks for the comment about the BVK's.  Yes I felt that the 9wt BVK had some punch, but I also know 8wts can feel more progressive.  So the better comparison would be comparing it to other comparable 8wts instead.  But an $800 Salt will not compare I'm sure.  I guess the 8wt Axiom would be a better comparison to the 9wt BVK if you like fast, stiffer guns.  But I'm really interested in knowing what that BPS rod was.  But remember, you always remember your 1st sweetheart!  lol  

I'll be at iCast next month    and will be doing a serious comparison of all the new 8wts in a decent mid priced range.  So it will be interesting to seeing what the top rods will be in that catagory.  I'll post a review.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

And deerfly....  You have some choice morsels of wisdom there and some a lil odd.  Certain rods can work better for certain species.  Take for example, even your example, reds vs bones.  You can throw a short butt leader to tailing reds near the boat with heavy flies, using softer quick loading rods with flylines with short heavy heads in little winds.  With bones you might be wade stalking spooking bones in the distance, in skinny water using a fast rod cause you need it with the howling winds, throwing long tapered bonefish lines with long tapered leaders trailing small bonefish flies.  Now swap the two rods with each of these anglers and ask them to preform the same task.  Get the picture? 

Yes, ones ability is more important than the rod itself.  Like I said, investing in casting techniques is money and time well spent.  Though I have to say that having a decent rod helps dramatically and the ability to fit your casting around that rod will help as well (or fitting a rod to one's casting stroke).  A crude analogy would be....  try putting a fast rod in the hands of a dry fly guy from Idaho, or a butter stick in the hands of a stripper guy from Montauk.  Both will not be a pretty sight!  Just sayin....


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> Stewie, nice of you to join in and welcome to the Microskiff fly board.  Great points you made as well and hope you join in with other threads here.  I haven't thrown the Recon yet but hear good things about it.
> 
> paint it black, thanks for the comment about the BVK's.  Yes I felt that the 9wt BVK had some punch, but I also know 8wts can feel more progressive.  So the better comparison would be comparing it to other comparable 8wts instead.  But an $800 Salt will not compare I'm sure.  I guess the 8wt Axiom would be a better comparison to the 9wt BVK if you like fast, stiffer guns.  But I'm really interested in knowing what that BPS rod was*.  But remember, you always remember your 1st sweetheart! * lol
> 
> ...


You know, I would understand if it was my first rod, but it was far from my first fly rod. lol I had snapped my 8wt BVK and broke my 6wt Signature Series so I needed something cheap to fish. I was at BPS and some guy was there who mentioned he loved that fly rod that he bought it as a back up bahamas travel rod and used it more than his expensive rods, it ended up becoming his go to. So I ended up buying the last one they had in stock.

The BPS rod is a white river Intruder. They had discontinued it for a while, but brought it back to market a year or two later, using a different blank. 
I still have the rod and love it. 


Also, I'll be at ICAST, come by my booth and say hello! my booth will be next to Sage's booth.


----------



## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks all for the help. Yall have all added great input. Solved half of my 8wt dilemma and snagged up an Allen Kraken 3 I found on ebay for a very good price. Now the search continues for what Rod and Line to round out the outfit.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Cool!!!

Eric, I'll be at your booth regardless to buy some cool Estrada Art merchandise!!!  It's on my "hit list!"   [smiley=headbang.gif]

Hey, what can I say...  I was born in Miami baby!!!   ;D

I'll be at the Project Healing Waters Fly Fishing Booth!   [smiley=cool.gif]


----------

