# Slow rods?



## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

I moved from Sage/Loomis/T&T to Scott for this reason. I have so many sub 40' shots and I use a true to wt line. 

I still false cast the hell out of em though.


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

I keep an eye on eBay for Sage RPL's, they were the rods I started with and I still like them. Also like the Sage FLi series for my personal tastes....
Still being somewhat of a saltwater "rookie" I have a tendency to get excited when I see fish (AKA losing my shit) and I can feel the slower rods load better and let the line straighten out. I'm also not above or below overlining to get the feel right. YMMV


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## Flyfish40 (Sep 23, 2019)

Cast a Scott sector, fast for them but not compared to a NRX or other extra fast stiff rods. Great for shots close in the 30 foot range and able to land a fly with a true to weight line but also Can carry line and can feel the flex in the middle of your stroke. Super light swing weight and so much fun to cast


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I cast Rio Outbound short the other day on an 10wt rod. That super short head loaded the rod really quick and was really easy to make short and medium range accurate casts with one false cast. Felt a lot like the rod was overlined but more responsive.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Yea, Andy and Nathaniel both fish Hardy. They are talking the difference b/w like a Hardy or Scott and fishing a Sage Method (or similar)


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

brokeoff said:


> I moved from Sage/Loomis/T&T to Scott for this reason. I have so many sub 40' shots and I use a true to wt line.
> 
> I still false cast the hell out of em though.


It's really a matter of changing up your casting stroke and speed for each rod you pick up. The super fast rods you have you normally are casting distance and requires higher line speeds that come from faster and longer casting strokes from your casting arm, as well as faster and longer hauls from your striping hand.

On the flip side, with the slower rods casting shorter, is all about slowing down your casting stroke and speed while watching and waiting for your loops to fully unfurl out before starting your next leg of your cast with that true to weight line, along with shorter and slower hauls. So you can do it in the same amount of false cast or even a pick-up and lay-down cast, if you do it slowly and allow the rod to load out while you are slowly picking it up and off the water, then allowing it to unroll (unfurl) out behind you, shooting a bit of line with it and then doing a slow shoot out in front of you.

To me, it's all the same dynamic, just a lot slower with slower strokes and waiting on things to straighten out.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

Backwater said:


> It's really a matter of changing up your casting stroke and speed for each rod you pick up. The super fast rods you have you normally are casting distance and requires higher line speeds that come from faster and longer casting strokes from your casting arm, as well as faster and longer hauls from your striping hand.
> 
> On the flip side, with the slower rods casting shorter, is all about slowing down your casting stroke and speed while watching and waiting for your loops to fully unfurl out before starting your next leg of your cast with that true to weight line, along with shorter and slower hauls. So you can do it in the same amount of false cast or even a pick-up and lay-down cast, if you do it slowly and allow the rod to load out while you are slowly picking it up and off the water, then allowing it to unroll (unfurl) out behind you, shooting a bit of line with it and then doing a slow shoot out in front of you.
> 
> To me, it's all the same dynamic, just a lot slower with slower strokes and waiting on things to straighten out.


Thanks for weighing in sir. I agree that just speeding everything up or slowing it down works as long as there is line out. And for snook fishing along deadfall, I like the fast rod because I can pick up a fly at 40-50' and shoot it at the next target in one backcast (usually).

When I'm posted up waiting for tarpon to show up I am wondering if a slower rod gets things moving faster with less line out because they will load at a lower weight.

That said, I love my new Sage 10 weight. It is fast but definitely loads fast and is accurate.

Ultimately though, I think it comes down to my skills, which are improving. And knowing what to do on that first backcast to get enough line in the air to load any rod I have on board.


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## Brydan (May 31, 2020)

Think in terms of adjusting the casting arc to accomodate the amount of bend in the rod. Doesn't matter the action type or how much line you have out. Less bend narrower arc, more bend wider arc. That's largely what allows skilled casters to make a 10' cast with a fast rod and a 100' cast with a slow rod.


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

I think that considering the slower rod as “easier to cast” is my choice for how to put this into words. But “easier to cast” falls apart when more energy has to be applied to the line to make it do what you want. For moderate distances any old rod will work although a really good any old rod might be the most enjoyable to fish. 

Its when you demand more of the rod in terms of line speed, distance and wind fighting that the faster and harder to cast rod comes into play. And that requires more effort and better timing and technique, so maybe that is harder.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Bill Payne said:


> In the most recent mill house pod cast, Andy makes the point that fast rods are good casting rods, but slow rods make better fishing rods because they require fewer false casts. That got me to thinking about how much I like casting my oldest, slowest rod. I feel like I can load that thing instantly and throw ton of line with one false cast.
> 
> Does anyone else feel that way? Also, what is an example of a slow rod made today? The rod I am talking about is a Scott 9 wt that I bought 25 years ago.


Love my old Sages RPLX


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Love my old Sages RPLX


I use to really love the 7wt RPLX with a good line. That was one sweet rod!

That all being said, I really want to get my hands on a Echo Prime 2 - 7wt. It's got that nice easy flex to it with a little more authority. I'm thinking I'm going to try it for tight end shots at mangroves, up in creeks or short shots at reds this fall. I think it's be a hoot, unless you got an ole RPLX 7wt you can send me!


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Backwater said:


> I use to really love the 7wt RPLX with a good line. That was one sweet rod!
> 
> That all being said, I really want to get my hands on a Echo Prime 2 - 7wt. It's got that nice easy flex to it with a little more authority. I'm thinking I'm going to try it for tight end shots at mangroves, up in creeks or short shots at reds this fall. I think it's be a hoot, unless you got an ole RPLX 7wt you can send me!


I have a 9wt RPLX and gave my 8wt to my daughter a couple years ago, just told her the other day I want it back and I am going to give her a TFO 8wt. Miss that 8wt, fished it for 20 years.


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## Moore Lyon and Quick (Aug 26, 2015)

The only time I was able to consistently cast the whole fly line was on a lake on a calm evening casting a 6wt TFO signature rod ( 2 piece, med action, around $100). Granted, it wasn't a windy flat but sometimes the slower rods provide more feedback.


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## Brydan (May 31, 2020)

I can believe that. If a fuller flexing rod has some power I don't find there to be all that much difference in terms of distance compared to a faster actioned rod.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

I can’t seem to find any medium action rods being built today. It seems like everything is fast or medium fast. Is that just because you can over line a faster rod to get the action you want?


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

My 6wts are fast, but my 7-12wts are all mid flex, I feel that you have much more control over the line with a slower more controlled cast. This is the reason I left Clutch 7 years ago.


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

Just built a epic 686 glass rod . tried a few lines and couldnt get the distance. My main rod is a nrx so going to the slower glass rod was a little learning curve. I had to slow down a little and started getting better distance but when you try to force it , i was catching loops on my leader. So i went through 3 different lines and settled on 7wt Bermuda shorts. Great for the close shots but i can stretch it out pretty good if i need to.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Love my old Sages RPLX


So what should I pay a neighbor for a four piece RPLX 9wt with a reel and a carry case?


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

Rookiemistake said:


> Just built a epic 686 glass rod . tried a few lines and couldnt get the distance. My main rod is a nrx so going to the slower glass rod was a little learning curve. I had to slow down a little and started getting better distance but when you try to force it , i was catching loops on my leader. So i went through 3 different lines and settled on 7wt Bermuda shorts. Great for the close shots but i can stretch it out pretty good if i need to.


glass is dead


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Bill Payne said:


> I can’t seem to find any medium action rods being built today. It seems like everything is fast or medium fast. Is that just because you can over line a faster rod to get the action you want?


The Redington Crux might be worth looking at. I'd call them medium action by 2020 standards. I have a 9 that I might turn loose of if you are interested.


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

jay.bush1434 said:


> I cast Rio Outbound short the other day on an 10wt rod. That super short head loaded the rod really quick and was really easy to make short and medium range accurate casts with one false cast. Felt a lot like the rod was overlined but more responsive.





jay.bush1434 said:


> I cast Rio Outbound short the other day on an 10wt rod. That super short head loaded the rod really quick and was really easy to make short and medium range accurate casts with one false cast. Felt a lot like the rod was overlined but more responsive.


Rios lines are about 2 wt heavier than industry standard. That’s why they feel like they load the rod so well!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

To some extent you can make quite a bit of adjustment to any rods behavior by switching lines up. You might go broke in the process, but there's no rule that says you have to fish an 8 wt rod with an 8 wt line. I have under and over lined plenty of rods in the past. Hell these days you can overline a rod by 2 -3 line weights unintentionally just by trying to match line wt to rod wt.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Mark H said:


> So what should I pay a neighbor for a four piece RPLX 9wt with a reel and a carry case?


A 10 wt was recently sold on here without a reel for about $150


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Capt.Ron said:


> My 6wts are fast, but my 7-12wts are all mid flex, I feel that you have much more control over the line with a slower more controlled cast. This is the reason I left Clutch 7 years ago.


I too really liked to throw slightly heavier rods like a 9 and 10wt with a little more feedback, especially blind casting them for hours. I had a mid-flex Orvis T3 10wt and it was a beautiful rod to cast. Considered Fast back in the day, would be considered to be more Med/Fast to medium today. Orvis' Battenkill and Trident was 2 other series that were slower rods. T&T had the Horizon, again, fast for the day, Med/fast today. Winston's IM6 was another one. G.Loomis GL3 is yet another one. I had an 8wt GL3 that I probably caught about 500 snook on that rod alone back in the day (mid '90's). I also loved the IMX version of that rod.

So you can look for current rods today in a "Mid Flex" and they will still give you that mid section bend in the rod. I felt that even casting a current model Orvis H3F, which is a mid flex rod with a more rapid recovery.

My advise to you is look for a Medium Fast rod as oppose to a Medium, which will confuse most people on how slow it flows. Almost feels like a glass or bamboo rod of today. Anyway, you can find an older rod to accomplish your goal and find it at a bargin.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Matts said:


> Rios lines are about 2 wt heavier than industry standard. That’s why they feel like they load the rod so well!


The ones I've seen and tested are only 1 rod weight heavier (i.e. Redfish, the Direct Core Flats Pro, Bonefish Quick Shooter, etc.).

IMO, having a rod that you need a line that is 2 line weights heavier is a crutch for either less than proper casting habits or the fact that you prefer a slower rod. You are basically causing a rod to do what it wasn't designed for. Instead, go and cast a slower rod that is slower with a line that is true-to-weight and you will see and feel the differences. Or, learn how to cast your faster rod with a line that is recommended for it. Sure I do see where sometimes it's easy to throw on a line one weight heavier. But really, you are throwing a bigger line with a rod that doesn't match the line. For instance, you are throwing a 10wt line on an 8wt rod. Why? So you can feel the line load up the rod or because you are throwing flies that are too big for that line weight. So the fly can also be part of the problem.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Backwater said:


> The ones I've seen and tested are only 1 rod weight heavier (i.e. Redfish, the Direct Core Flats Pro, Bonefish Quick Shooter, etc.).
> 
> IMO, having a rod that you need a line that is 2 line weights heavier is a crutch for either less than proper casting habits or the fact that you prefer a slower rod. You are basically causing a rod to do what it wasn't designed for. Instead, go and cast a slower rod that is slower with a line that is true-to-weight and you will see and feel the differences. Or, learn how to cast your faster rod with a line that is recommended for it. Sure I do see where sometimes it's easy to throw on a line one weight heavier. But really, you are throwing a bigger line with a rod that doesn't match the line. For instance, you are throwing a 10wt line on an 8wt rod. Why? So you can feel the line load up the rod or because you are throwing flies that are too big for that line weight. So the fly can also be part of the problem.


Agree


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

Backwater said:


> I too really liked to throw slightly heavier rods like a 9 and 10wt with a little more feedback, especially blind casting them for hours. I had a mid-flex Orvis T3 10wt and it was a beautiful rod to cast. Considered Fast back in the day, would be considered to be more Med/Fast to medium today. Orvis' Battenkill and Trident was 2 other series that were slower rods. T&T had the Horizon, again, fast for the day, Med/fast today. Winston's IM6 was another one. G.Loomis GL3 is yet another one. I had an 8wt GL3 that I probably caught about 500 snook on that rod alone back in the day (mid '90's). I also loved the IMX version of that rod.
> 
> So you can look for current rods today in a "Mid Flex" and they will still give you that mid section bend in the rod. I felt that even casting a current model Orvis H3F, which is a mid flex rod with a more rapid recovery.
> 
> My advise to you is look for a Medium Fast rod as oppose to a Medium, which will confuse most people on how slow it flows. Almost feels like a glass or bamboo rod of today. Anyway, you can find an older rod to accomplish your goal and find it at a bargin.


I’m good , I have about 16k of rods in the rack. Check out the new LOOP 7X , I have the 7 and 8


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

Capt.Ron said:


> glass is dead


Have you tried one?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Rookiemistake said:


> Have you tried one?


They are painfully slow. Most guys I see that jump on the Epic glass craze end up selling them. It's also why I don't have any bamboos anymore (just bought as collector's items, tried to fish them but gave up).

Douglas makes a carbon/graphite rod that is designed to be slow, but is more of a medium for things like stream trout fishing or bluegills, called the Upstream Plus. I've played around with it and may get one some day in a 8ft - 3 or 4wt specifically for small stream trout fishing and panfish. It's super light (notices the weights of the rod in the links below) and faster than an Epic Glass and cast beautifully.

https://douglasoutdoors.com/fly-rods/upstream/

https://douglasoutdoors.com/fly-rods/upstream-plus-rod-series/

I don't ever think I'll own a glass rod or anything less that what is considered moderately fast (med/fast) in today's standards for the salt.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

My 888's get more bow time than all my carbon 8wt's combined.


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## redjim (Oct 16, 2012)

Hey Bill I fish the heck out of the TFO Mangrove and I would consider it a modern day medium action rod. I finds it works well for my style of casting. I also enjoy the Scott Tidal.


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## Brydan (May 31, 2020)

Backwater said:


> IMO, having a rod that you need a line that is 2 line weights heavier is a crutch for either less than proper casting habits or the fact that you prefer a slower rod. You are basically causing a rod to do what it wasn't designed for. Instead, go and cast a slower rod that is slower with a line that is true-to-weight and you will see and feel the differences. Or, learn how to cast your faster rod with a line that is recommended for it.


As a matter of preference I tend to feel the same way. An overlined fast action rod isn't the same as one designed to be fuller flexing to begin with IMO. People feel the rod bend deeper into the blank and since that's the basic feeling they associate with a slower rod the tendency is to see them as one and the same. To my hand anyway, there's more to action than just how deeply the rod bends, the tip, mid, and lower sections are all designed to work in conjunction with each other to achieve the desired performance. Fly rods are like wine, some appreciate the subtleties, for others it's all just fermented grape juice. I think they're both right.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

redjim said:


> Hey Bill I fish the heck out of the TFO Mangrove and I would consider it a modern day medium action rod. I finds it works well for my style of casting. I also enjoy the Scott Tidal.


You know, I have a tfo mangrove 7 weight. I got it because it was on sale, but I don’t fish it that much, I’ll have to take it out and try it. Thanks for the tip!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> I too really liked to throw slightly heavier rods like a 9 and 10wt with a little more feedback, especially blind casting them for hours. I had a mid-flex Orvis T3 10wt and it was a beautiful rod to cast. Considered Fast back in the day, would be considered to be more Med/Fast to medium today. Orvis' Battenkill and Trident was 2 other series that were slower rods. T&T had the Horizon, again, fast for the day, Med/fast today. Winston's IM6 was another one. G.Loomis GL3 is yet another one. I had an 8wt GL3 that I probably caught about 500 snook on that rod alone back in the day (mid '90's). I also loved the IMX version of that rod.
> 
> So you can look for current rods today in a "Mid Flex" and they will still give you that mid section bend in the rod. I felt that even casting a current model Orvis H3F, which is a mid flex rod with a more rapid recovery.
> 
> My advise to you is look for a Medium Fast rod as oppose to a Medium, which will confuse most people on how slow it flows. Almost feels like a glass or bamboo rod of today. Anyway, you can find an older rod to accomplish your goal and find it at a bargin.


Of all the rods I have sold the only one I kick myself for getting rid of is my 9 wt gl3. That rod was magic.


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## Brydan (May 31, 2020)

el9surf said:


> Of all the rods I have sold the only one I kick myself for getting rid of is my 9 wt gl3. That rod was magic.


When I used to tournament cast that was my bass bug rod. Really a nice casting rod. Pretty sure Steve was using it too back then. Unfortunately I snapped the tip off on mine


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

Rookiemistake said:


> Have you tried one?


Ron uses glass for his hardhead rod....


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

fatman said:


> Ron uses glass for his hardhead rod....


Fuck off Symes !!!! Lmfao


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

Rookiemistake said:


> Have you tried one?


Yes, I killed it ..... that’s how I know it’s dead


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

fatman said:


> Ron uses glass for his hardhead rod....


Y’all good?


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

Capt.Ron said:


> Y’all good?


workin' like a dawg, buddy. I need some more fishings in my life right now....

Say hey to the missus....


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

fatman said:


> workin' like a dawg, buddy. I need some more fishings in my life right now....
> 
> Say hey to the missus....


Will do, same here, tell the Mrs I said hello


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Brydan said:


> As a matter of preference I tend to feel the same way. An overlined fast action rod isn't the same as one designed to be fuller flexing to begin with IMO. People feel the rod bend deeper into the blank and since that's the basic feeling they associate with a slower rod the tendency is to see them as one and the same. To my hand anyway, there's more to action than just how deeply the rod bends, the tip, mid, and lower sections are all designed to work in conjunction with each other to achieve the desired performance. Fly rods are like wine, some appreciate the subtleties, for others it's all just fermented grape juice. I think they're both right.


Well said!


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Anyone have opinions of the current slow rods out there? As in, which ones are they?


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## Reverse (Dec 9, 2017)

brokeoff said:


> Anyone have opinions of the current slow rods out there? As in, which ones are they?


Out of the handful of rods that I have, my Loomis CC Pro-1 is my slowest. I prefer 1-pc rods for weight savings, faster action, and slightly less risk of breakage, however the Pro-1 is a little slower than the 4 piece GLX. Just like anything else, some people love em and some hate em, but my 10wt Pro-1 has put some hurt on big fish that likely would have blown up it's 4pc bretheren


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