# Well educated large snook



## dbrady784 (Feb 17, 2014)

My best luck on big snook in docklights in the winter was a size 8 crazy Charlie. Getting the bite was one thing, Landing it was another story


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## Pete Gulbrandsen (Aug 23, 2015)

dbrady784 said:


> My best luck on big snook in docklights in the winter was a size 8 crazy Charlie. Getting the bite was one thing, Landing it was another story


Thanks, this is during the day, trying to get the eat. Thanks


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## dbrady784 (Feb 17, 2014)

Worth a shot. If nothing else works


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

I would start with a 12' leader, 20lb FC for the shock and a natural colored, very buggy and appropriately sized fly on a sticky sharp but stout hook. Expect to lose some fish with that leader but it should help with getting the eat. There are some absolute toads that like to lay up and sun behind my in-laws place on the IRL and that was the best method I've found personally. Oh and also a 7wt


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## Pete Gulbrandsen (Aug 23, 2015)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I would start with a 12' leader, 20lb FC for the shock and a natural colored, very buggy and appropriately sized fly on a sticky sharp but stout hook. Expect to lose some fish with that leader but it should help with getting the eat. There are some absolute toads that like to lay up and sun behind my in-laws place on the IRL and that was the best method I've found personally. Oh and also a 7wt


Thanks Caleb!


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Have had good luck feeding some of ones a small 2” ish ep gray over white baitfish pattern tied pretty sparse on a longer and smaller tippet leader than normal snook fishing as Caleb said. Also helps to be a close to straight head on shot versus 90 or more degree side profile only shots.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Pete Gulbrandsen said:


> I have a few very reliable winter Snook spots that hold large. Been fishing them for a few winters now, sight casting to them in clear shallow water. I swear they have graduated Harvard! Any tips or ideas on getting them to eat flies? Thanks for any help!


The large ones are always tough to fool especially in winter when their metabolism is likely running a bit slow. The 2 most common words out of my mouth to my clients is "slow down". I must say this 100 times a day. You need to move the fly as much as possible without it going anywhere. 3 inch sharp strips with long pauses works best. Stare at the tip of the line and the fish. Any movement you strip set.

For the really big ones it really takes patience. I use 6"+ flies that are designed to sink slow but steady. Same short strips but I may wait 20 to 30 seconds between strips and may leave the fly in the zone for several minutes if the current allows. Most of the big bastards do things in slow motion.

I just did about 10 straight days with clients and members of my guide staff fishing snook and reds. Every time they move the fly aggressively juvenile fish attack the fly. When they leave it alone the big boys suck it in.

I just wrote a report on this subject earlier this week at https://www.baxterhouse.net/single-post/2018/12/12/Fly-Fishing-Report-for-Tampa-bay

Here is one from Tampa Bay taken in today's nasty weather. Not a huge one 25", but he took while the fly was still.. Also included a shot of a big red he took earlier this week


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## Pete Gulbrandsen (Aug 23, 2015)

Ken T said:


> The large ones are always tough to fool especially in winter when their metabolism is likely running a bit slow. The 2 most common words out of my mouth to my clients is "slow down". I must say this 100 times a day. You need to move the fly as much as possible without it going anywhere. 3 inch sharp strips with long pauses works best. Stare at the tip of the line and the fish. Any movement you strip set.
> 
> For the really big ones it really takes patience. I use 6"+ flies that are designed to sink slow but steady. Same short strips but I may wait 20 to 30 seconds between strips and may leave the fly in the zone for several minutes if the current allows. Most of the big bastards do things in slow motion.
> 
> ...


Thanks Ken. I will give it a shot.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

You didn't say where you were... Down here in the 'Glades during winter time the water clears up a lot - and big snook as well as big redfish get spookier than a big bonefish getting razzed by idiots on jet-skis...

Our approach is probably not a lot different than what's been described... I try to remember that the fish might just have seen us before we ever saw him/her... With big fish in clear water - I simply give up using a bite (or shock) tippet and go with a Poor Boy leader (a four to five foot section of straight 20lb fluoro looped onto a five or six foot heaver mono butt section.

The one thing we do differently is to use an all black maribou minnow pattern, the Blacklight Special (something I cooked up one day after getting the turndown from a few big fish. It's tied up on a #1 or #2 hook with a wire weedguard... Here's a pic


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## mmthunt (Aug 11, 2018)

Capt. Lemay, you just made my day! 
Thanks


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

Is 20lb flouro enough? Ive used 30-40 on spinning rods and broke off.... maybe its the drag pressure as well


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## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

Rookiemistake said:


> Is 20lb flouro enough? Ive used 30-40 on spinning rods and broke off.... maybe its the drag pressure as well


I’ve caught 38” snook on 20lb floro. I’ve also had 18” snook completely destroy 50lb.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Yep, light leaders for snook is a gambler's past-time - but if that's what it takes to get the bite... then I figure it's worth it. Remember we're stalking big fish in pretty shallow waters with a soft mud bottom and not in the "turn him or lose him" situation the way it is out on the coast around downed trees... In that situation you can allow a fish to run until it starts to slow down then simply pole after them while your angler is trying to get back every inch of line before the next run... We do lose fish this way but also land a surprising number - all on a7 to 9wt rods -rod size is dictated by two factors - how much wind is in your face - and what size fly are you tossing - not the size of the fish (unless tarpon are involved...).


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## Tailer (Jan 10, 2017)

Lots of good advice in here already. You're playing the most technical game I know of outside of permit in Biscayne Bay and (maybe) oceanside Tarpon. 



Caleb.Esparza said:


> I would start with a 12' leader, 20lb FC for the shock and a natural colored, very buggy and appropriately sized fly on a sticky sharp but stout hook.


This. You'll lose most of them but at least you'll get the eats. I usually fish a 10-12' tapered leader with 15# tippet and 20# bite tippet. All fluorocarbon. Sometimes I even cut off the bite tippet if I get refusals. I am not a believer in homeboy leaders when I need to make long casts or soft presentations. Most of my big girls are laid up in the sun in open, skinny water so my leaders are long and I use clear fly lines.

When the inevitable break off occurs, I console myself with the knowledge that it's probably better for the fish in the long run.



Ken T said:


> The 2 most common words out of my mouth to my clients is "slow down".


This, most importantly.

Like KenT, I throw big flies at winter snook in the glades. Like the light leader it's a gamble, but I work on the assumption that big snook in cold water don't want to move and I try to make it look worth the effort. I pretty much only fish white or black flies depending on the light conditions and the water color. And like Capt Lemay I want the fly to move even if I'm not stripping it, because most of the time I'm not.

Good luck!


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Tailer said:


> Lots of good advice in here already. You're playing the most technical game I know of outside of permit in Biscayne Bay and (maybe) oceanside Tarpon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kitten and the string.. just like laid up silver.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

A lot of the time they are just trying to warm up and want to be left alone, enticing them to bite can be very aggravating.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Steve_Mevers said:


> A lot of the time they are just trying to warm up and want to be left alone, enticing them to bite can be very aggravating.


Very true. But most people don't get it, including myself at times. I have to keep reminding myself to go back to what you know and learned about those prima donna's (dirty bitches if you ask me! )!

To the OP and the viewers.....

My experience with fly fishing for big wintertime snook over the years.

Flies being "suspended" down low to them at eyeball level where they are laying, in the winter, is one of the keys to success with them. Depending on the water depths, that may mean going with an unweighted fly, a long fluorocarbon leader system and even a clear intermediate line or full clear intermediate sink lines. You need to be careful of sinking too low, too fast. Otherwise, you'll drag the bottom, which can be counter productive.

For me, it's very sparse silhouettes for flies, in those colder gin clear waters while they try to warm up (like Steve Meyers just said). Just a faint hint that there's a lil something something there to eat.... or not! So materials with lots of movement, since you are barely bumping it and letting it sit almost motionless, but with materials that still seem to give it life and almost sorta waving at those big girls. Materials like marabou, fox, raccoon, thin sparse hackles, thin synthetics like pseudo hair... etc... maybe even a couple of short thin ostrich hurls... etc. Basically anything that has some movement. Or synthetics like Steve Farrar, EP or Fly tyiers Dungeon's leaning towards clearish, rather than opaic, light to no flash, that will push and rake some water and tied sparse enough to almost disappear in the water, giving the hint that some kind of bait is there...or not. I think it get's the curiosity up in those dormant snook. Sparse tied flash, if any, to no flash at all, matching colors of the tying materials to conditions.....etc. The key is "*sparse*," but keeping the same profile shape and size. Also tie them up on more stealthy hooks, rather than what you may think you need for big snook. But good hooks for sure for big snook. For me, that's smaller, thinner wire black nickel hooks. Think small tarpon hooks in size #1-1/0. For me, it's an Owner 5180 in size 1-1/0 if possible and if I'm seriously targeting them with a confidence fly I know they may eat.

If I'm buying/tying flies to find what they'll eat, I'm not tying multiple copies of them, but "one-offs" to see what they might eat. If you get eaten, then tied a few more back at the house and try them the next time. But really, I've yet to find a winter big snook fly that get's eaten every time or even once a year. Errr!!! Those bastards!!!  If someone has the winter big snook money shot fly that always performs (and not takin shorts or slots either, but the big heifers!), then please PM a pic to me! I'll be yer friend for life! 

Where was I...  Oh yeah!

For me it's small profiles while sight fishing big snook with light presentations, gentle landings "away" from the fish, bringing it within eyesight, then slowing bump and stops and slowly take it away. If she looks and follows, pick up the pace on your bumping a bit until she comes at it (sort of the take-away trick to get her to react).

Remember, these bigger snook have been around for a while, seen it all and are not dumb. They don't need or want attractor type patterns cause they're really picky at this point during the cold months.. Instead, it's imperative to go more sparse natural patterns that basically "match the hatch." Know the baits they feed on in those areas during that period of time and then present imitation flies that mimic what they are feeding on, and also those rare treats they will cause them to go out of their comfort zone. Like if there are plenty of small mullet in the area where they are hanging out and maybe tired of them, therefore ignoring your small mullet fly, then try something different like a mud minnow, baby tilapia or mojarra type pattern or a mantis type shrimp pattern.

There is no point of throwing green back patterns to them up in the rivers or back country because they are not normally not there that time of year. Sure, you can get the smaller ones to eat em, but the big girls wise up to them and hit that buzzer button like Simon does on America's got Talent! Ok... bad analogy!  It's like trying to get snook to eat a shrimp in the summer when they are keyed in on white bait and no shrimp are to be found in the summer hardly in the area. It just not gonna happen!

So in the winter, as they are sunning themselves, they will not be tucked up against the mangrove shorelines or river banks, but rather out away from shade, but still in shallow enough water to get good warmth absorbtion from the sun., that can still be in floating fly line depth. So a lot of times you can find yourself casting and looking up towards the mangroves and shore when they are out further, sunning themselves while you are running over them with your boat. So keep that in mind. With that being said, look for the shadows further away from the shore banks. In those slightly deeper waters (2-5ft), that's where you really need a slow sink tip or line (intermediate) to get down to them.

Likewise, if they are sitting near a deeper cut where you see em, then I'm grabbing a rod with a clear intermediate fly line or at least a clear sink tip floater to keep the fly down so it doesn't ride upwards. I don't want a heavy weighted fly that bounces, but instead, suspends when stopped. They are lazy and lethargic when it's cold and very hard to get to eat (the big girls). They don't want to waste a lot of energy chasing down food. But they will take a small snack if the sun is warming things up, the opportunity presents itself and they don't have to exert much energy to eat it. Make that happen and you'll increase your odds.

Idk about 20lb bite leader. For me, I'm tracking down the thinnest, clearest 25-30lb fluorocarbon leader materials I can find and going shorter, like down to 6-10" if need be. Very looong tippet (30-36") attached to a non-aggressive butt leader, with no more than 15lb FC, no less than 12lb tippet. I worry more about wearing thru the bite leader with big snook when the pressure is on to keep them out of the roots and structure.

Absolutely no boat noise people!  Stealth, stealth....stealth! Don't go sliding right up in an area without casing the place as you go, otherwise, you'll be looking right down at the fish cause you slid up on top of them and they'll know you're there. I'd make longer gentle cast to them if you see them up ahead of where you are (without rocking the boat as you cast) rather than wait to get right on top of them. If you happen to get too close to them, ease quietly away from the area, give it some good time to calm back down and then ease back in for a quite approach and a soft and gentle presentation.

What do big snook in the winter want? They want to warm up, they don't want to exert much energy, they want peace and quiet. They want small snacks rather than choking down big baits (completely different than how they are in warmer months, especially in the summer). So shallow dark mud in calm waters early in the morning while the sun comes up and warms the mud, or a bright crystal type sandy areas that reflect the sunlight, up inside in the shallows but near deeper waters. As as things warm up and as the tide starts to bring in warming waters from the deep, in they will move near edges of those moving waters to get a morning snack. The rest of the day is figuring out how to stay warm and/or maybe grab a snack here or there if the opportunity presents itself without a lot of effort on their part.

Remember, since their metabolism is low, if they happen to grab a mullet or big bait swimming by before you show up, they'll be set for many days and there is nothing you can do to get them to eat. So timing, as well as conditions plays a big part if they'll eat something or not.

Bottom line, big winter time snook are a PITA!  But a real challenge indeed and getting a big girls (big ones people!) to eat a fly when it's cold, may be harder to do than any pursuing any sportfish in Florida. So in the winter, I almost completely stop snook fishing and turn to things like trout, reds, sheephead and other pelagics who get frisky when it gets cold. It's just so much easier and less frustrating. 

Good luck! You'll need it! 

Ted Haas


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

Great thread! Gas as my son would say )

Thanks Ted!!!


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Who can honestly pass up casting to a handful of 35” plus snook laying on a big mud bank trying to warm up...not me. In the winter I even like to pinch the barbs, the eat is the thrill.


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## Pete Gulbrandsen (Aug 23, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Very true. But most people don't get it, including myself at times. I have to keep reminding myself to go back to what you know and learned about those prima donna's (dirty bitches if you ask me! )!
> 
> To the OP and the viewers.....
> 
> ...


Thanks Ted! Lotta wisdom there!


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## levidog (May 14, 2017)

Holy Cow... this forum is an unbelievable wealth of info. Thanks to all of you guys who input here.
I was up in Hells Bay a few weeks ago. We turned a couple of fish, but really didn't see much throughout the day. I was told later that it had to do with the salinity level of the water; apparently the salinity was too low (Sweet-water?) Can someone explain to me how this works? When I look up the PSU levels in hells bay, they are significantly lower then further towards the coast. When does (or does) this change and how does it affect how the fish move into these areas?

Thanks for any info.


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Who can honestly pass up casting to a handful of 35” plus snook laying on a big mud bank trying to warm up...not me. In the winter I even like to pinch the barbs, the eat is the thrill.


Not me - I'll cast at locked up big snook for a WHILE before giving up.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

for Levi... I was taught years ago when running into the backcountry to periodically give the water the taste test... Simply dip your hand and taste the water - you'll know immediately how much (or how little) salt is present...

Salinity levels are definitely different all over the interior. Me, I'm not worried about them so much - if things are relatively stable (little rainfall for quite a few days) since fish become accustomed to whatever salinity levels there are.... All of that changes with heavy rainfall - then sudden changes in salinity will not only put fish off - but also absolutely chase some of the small bait out of an entire area - if the salinity falls enough -they'll die if they can't get back to the salinity they need.... If all the baitfish leave an area - you can bet any hungry fish will follow.

Salinity levels also change dramatically -depending on the season (we only get two, remember, a wet and a dry...). We've been in the dry season now since Halloween - and it won't rain much until the end of April (in a "wet" year) or May (on an average year) or June (in a "dry year)... In the middle of summer I won't even think about drawing water from Whitewater if I have live shrimp, since there isn't enough salt in the water until you get past Midway....

On a day when the fish are biting in a given area - a quick taste test might reveal just one of the factors contributing to the day... or the opposite when fish aren't biting... 

Hope this helps....


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## levidog (May 14, 2017)

Bob, Makes sense. The guy I talked to did mention tasting the water as well.
I'll give it a try and keep on knocking at their door until i figure it out.

Thanks for the info, as always. Great reading your posts on the site.
Enjoy the holidays.


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