# Snook Lights and Interfering with Fishing - FL



## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

I think you will be hard pressed to prove a or b... I'm the end he can say he way just trying to save some $ on his power bil...


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

People get mad when you fish their docks. I was getting ready for a night of fishing the south side of Marco island and noticed signs posted on the seawalls that said it's unlawful to fish the residential area at night by boat. I tried to find info on the net about it, but didn't find anything? Collier county closes most of the public ramps at night now as well. I asked a deputy about it and he claims it's to protect the public from hitting channel markers at night. Ridiculous!


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## Ethan_W (Oct 19, 2015)

Yeah I think that'd be pretty tough to prove. I'm sure though that for every 1 respectful angler like yourself out there there are probably 10 others who hit that light and are being loud, snagging the dock, etc. My whole thing is, if you don't want people fishing your dock, maybe don't have lights, especially expensive under water lights! Am I right?!


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

fast forward to 2:20


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

No what he did was not illegal. This issue came up years ago in a discussion I had with FWC. Basically because the lights are not an essential part of their habitat, are not natural or permanent part their habitat, and also alter their natural behavior in the first place, they can turn them off as they wish.
You have no legal standing, he isn't stopping you from fishing, he just isn't letting you use his privately owned unnatural advantage. I also agree with the above statement that for every one good guy fishing the docks there will be a ton that aren't decent guys.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

I hate people like this. I have had it happen. On the contrary I know this dock where a lady would sit and drink on it at night and loved to watch people pull fish from under her dock light. Fun for everyone!


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## Daz (Jul 14, 2015)

Thanks for the opinions. As a note, I'm not looking to prove any thing or win any case - I was just surprised at his actions and was curious what others thought. This is a neighbor who I had talked to before and had never said anything about me fishing, maybe he had a bad night, I don't know. I was thinking I'd try talking to him at some later time but now I think I'll just let it go and continue to do as I have been.


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## damthemainstream (Apr 11, 2017)

I think a little common sense goes a long way on this one. Clearly those dock lights are an unnatural improvement/advantage to that spot. They are also privately owned by the party in question. He has every right to control them at his will. Now if he were throwing rocks in the water to actively scare you or the fish away, that would be a different story. Next time, have some boat mounted underwater lights ready so when he cuts his off you can turn yours on and keep on truckin'.


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## Danny Moody (Jan 22, 2016)

I have fished dock lights for 27 years. For the most part, i fixed this issue quite a few years ago. The only time I fish lights in the PM hours now is when my kids want to go. Otherwise, 99% of my dock light fishing is from 4AM to dawn. Problem solved. No rude people, no other anglers, fish are more aggressive.

It's really hard to think you will be logical with a homeowner that does this, law on your side or not.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I will tell you guys what I tell anyone about this particular subject. It's their lights and their dock, it does not have to be there and they pay the electric bill. People do this because they get tired of lures getting broken off on their docks and boats. Put yourself in their position and imagine the possible reasons they don't want strangers fishing in their lights and around their boats and property. You may be a very respectful person but you really don't know what the owner has possibly (probably) gone through with other people with less tact. I have seen a few videos of people cussing the owner out and being very disrespectful so blame those types of people that caused the owner to think this way. What if they have the lights on so they can come out on their dock and fish in their lights without someone already spooking the fish. Think about another similar scenario...when you are out on the water wading, paddling or poling do you appreciate random people pulling up close to you and casting lures or bait where you are fishing? Probably not! I don't own a dock but if I did I would be the same way and it would be my decision to turn the lights off or not. It's the same argument here in Texas and I'm sure plenty of other places. If the lights go off move on!


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Funny thread. Equal application of the law means that a judge or mediator weighs the interests of both sides.
(a) Interfere with or attempt to prevent the lawful taking of fish, game, or nongame animals by another. *He may have been getting ready to catch the fish he attracted with the lights he invested in. He would allege you interfered ... it upset him. *
(b) Attempt to disturb fish, game, or nongame animals or attempt to affect their behavior with the intent to prevent their lawful taking by another. *He would allege you intentionally disturbed the fish he intended on taking ... fish fry is off. *
(2) Any person who violates this section commits a Level Two violation under s. 379.401.*"yep"

Funny thread. *


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Also,
1.there is the problem of hooks left in the dock lines or on the dock or stuck in the t-top/bimini etc..
2. the innocent boat could be full of thieves

regarding residential canals, some may be privately owned but rare and there is always the argument of obstructing navigation which is "thin" in most cases.

Municipalities etc..are prohibited by law from creating regulations for boating or fishing that is occurring on state waters unless they have gone through DNR / FWC permitting process. The area has to marked/posted and w/ the approval rule number displayed on the signage ..

more than you wanted to know..............


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

DWJensen said:


> Here's the question: Is the act of turning off a set of snook lights while someone is fishing around them just as an attempt to stop them from legally fishing there considered interfering with fishing under FL Title XXVII section 379.105?
> 
> I regularly fly fish u/w dock lights around my neighborhood and am always respectful and quiet. In fact, if I didn't have my legally required nav lights on people probably wouldn't even know I'm there. Tonight I was probably a good 60' or more out from a dock that has two u/w lights when I heard a door slam and a guy stormed down to and stomped across the dock and unplugged the lights. I said hi, called him by name and told him who I was (we have met socially before). He angrily said "I know" and proceeded to tell me that if I wanted to fish lights I should buy my own. I told him that I wasn't going to argue with him tonight but that I was doing nothing wrong and if he wanted to discuss it I'd be happy to come talk to him during the day but would just leave now. He ranted on and I (nicely) told him that interfering with fishing was a violation of FL law to which he replied that he didn't give a damn about FL law. I told him to have a good night and not to let this bother him too much. I then started up and moved on to the next set of lights. I know I did nothing wrong and if he starts something the next time I fish there I plan to invite him to call CCO or FWC.
> 
> ...


 My thoughts are that he's probably in the right legally, but he acted like an ass and could have handled it much better. Personally I would just sneak over to his house and fill his mailbox with filleted trout carcasses one night, then put the matter behind me like the better man.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

You guys nailed it! Its not illegal and you have no recourse except buying your neighbor a beer and asking politely. I have friends with docks/piers and smack nailed that one too. the last thing the home owner wants is to replace busted lights or have their dogs step on an abandoned hook on their pier. I have two friends who own peirs that sit next to each other and between the piers is a small oyster reef. One guy has his lights wired to a switch in his house so he can flip the switched without ever putting on pants. Its pretty comical to watch the folks wondering how the lights turned off on their own.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Jan 10, 2017)

The better man puts fish carcasses in a mailbox? hmm


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Fish-N-Fool said:


> The better man puts fish carcasses in a mailbox? hmm


Then it becomes a federal offense...


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## Fish-N-Fool (Jan 10, 2017)

I would just stick to finding a new dock.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Jan 10, 2017)

Although it does remind me of a good story. Was fishing a bass tourmament and skipping docks, I hook a nice legal and a lady runs out of her house screaming at me "thats my pet!!!". I unhook it and put in the livewell and say " just borrowing him for a bit" she screams shes callong the cops....I motor away...lol


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## Daz (Jul 14, 2015)

I understand and agree with a good portion of what has been said here, and while I agree that there can be issues with careless fisherman creating issues at private docks, I really don't think that's the issue here. It's a concrete dock with no boat and no lift, basically just a concrete slab. The lights are not on the dock, they're underwater, on the bottom around 15 or so feet out away from the dock. It's not fished much (in fact I've never seen anyone else fish it) and I really think their issue is less that I fish there for a few minutes before moving on and more that they don't like seeing boats behind their new house.

I live on the same canal system (about 7 minutes away at wakeless speed) and had a set of u/w lights off my dock about two years ago. I occasionally had people fish them but never had any issues. I ended up taking them out because of all of the bugs they attracted which made it miserable on the dock after dark and made a mess of the boats.

Bottom line here - I think he's just a tool and I'm going to ignore him and move on.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Most that know me are aware that I've been docklight fishing for many, many years (started in 1972...). When I started guiding back in 1996, night trips were then (and still are) part of my bookings. Here's how I handle homeowners that object..... Remember - there's no law against being rude and obnoxious (but on my side I long ago learned to be as polite and quiet as possible if someone tries to start a confrontation - even when the homeowner yelled and screamed that he was going to sue.... while my two anglers aboard that night were both lawyers....).

At any rate I try to keep as low a profile as possible while working docklights - but always keep my nav lights on so that no one can claim I'm trying to sneak up on them (and I ask my anglers to be quiet and respectful as well since we're fishing right behind someone's house when we're working a light). With lights that I know are sensitive I try to only visit them after midnight.... What I don't want to happen is what's happened down here over the years -a docklight that's turned off - then never turned back on.... As we work docklights we try to make a few casts then move on. If there are folks enjoying their dock that night I apologize for bothering them and just keep moving without any fishing at all.... Any fish we catch at a docklight are promptly and carefully released since I know that many consider the fish at their dock to be pets (and they feed them regularly to keep them around....).

Hope this helps - down here in south Florida there's been a dramatic change in how homeowners view strangers anywhere near their houses at night compared to the way it was in the early seventies - but their property still ends at the waterline.... Over the years docklights (particularly ones that really hold snook and tarpon) have become fewer and fewer. My docklight salvation has been the underwater lights that more and more property owners have installed since the fish like them too (only in Miami Beach.....).


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Why not make your own lights? I know I know sounds too simple. I've fished with guys who have LED lights on the transom and they will collect a nice ball of bait after a bit. The same thing can be done with a floating rig. 

Build the rig, could be as simple as a LED lantern in a clear paint bucket, and place it with a small anchor in an area you know that will have it holding bait. Sit back and enjoy a sandwich and pop, and 30 minutes later instant dock light action.

To me this could solve many issues. No more arguing, no more snagging docks, no body turning off your lights, easier fishing as you can cast past it and work back. You can build as many as you want, place them as you want, build them out of sea led pvc tube so it's got structure..... just food for thought.


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## damthemainstream (Apr 11, 2017)

lemaymiami said:


> Most that know me are aware that I've been docklight fishing for many, many years (started in 1972...). When I started guiding back in 1996, night trips were then (and still are) part of my bookings. Here's how I handle homeowners that object..... Remember - there's no law against being rude and obnoxious (but on my side I long ago learned to be as polite and quiet as possible if someone tries to start a confrontation - even when the homeowner yelled and screamed that he was going to sue.... while my two anglers aboard that night were both lawyers....).
> 
> At any rate I try to keep as low a profile as possible while working docklights - but always keep my nav lights on so that no one can claim I'm trying to sneak up on them (and I ask my anglers to be quiet and respectful as well since we're fishing right behind someone's house when we're working a light). With lights that I know are sensitive I try to only visit them after midnight.... What I don't want to happen is what's happened down here over the years -a docklight that's turned off - then never turned back on.... As we work docklights we try to make a few casts then move on. If there are folks enjoying their dock that night I apologize for bothering them and just keep moving without any fishing at all.... Any fish we catch at a docklight are promptly and carefully released since I know that many consider the fish at their dock to be pets (and they feed them regularly to keep them around....).
> 
> Hope this helps - down here in south Florida there's been a dramatic change in how homeowners view strangers anywhere near their houses at night compared to the way it was in the early seventies - but their property still ends at the waterline.... Over the years docklights (particularly ones that really hold snook and tarpon) have become fewer and fewer. My docklight salvation has been the underwater lights that more and more property owners have installed since the fish like them too (only in Miami Beach.....).


Yeah, I suppose you can blame the organized boat thief rings for making people a little wary of strangers hanging around their docks after dark.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

damthemainstream said:


> Yeah, I suppose you can blame the organized boat thief rings for making people a little wary of strangers hanging around their docks after dark.


You would be amazed at what's going on around here right now. Guys are stealing TVs, booze, Yetis, fishing gear etc. and there is one dbag that has been caught on video paddling up to docks at night and stealing stuff then finding the fire extinguisher on their boat and spraying the whole inside of the boat and then the security camera. I hope someone catches him in the act and shoots him.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Fish-N-Fool said:


> Although it does remind me of a good story. Was fishing a bass tourmament and skipping docks, I hook a nice legal and a lady runs out of her house screaming at me "thats my pet!!!". I unhook it and put in the livewell and say " just borrowing him for a bit" she screams shes callong the cops....I motor away...lol


You should have offered it back after weigh in for $50.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

DWJensen said:


> Thanks for the opinions. As a note, I'm not looking to prove any thing or win any case - I was just surprised at his actions and was curious what others thought. This is a neighbor who I had talked to before and had never said anything about me fishing, maybe he had a bad night, I don't know. I was thinking I'd try talking to him at some later time but now I think I'll just let it go and continue to do as I have been.


Not sure I am fully following your logic on this. Not wanting to prove anything: You told the man he was breaking the law by turning off the lights. Then you state that you used to have lights but removed them.

Now you say god damn it. I don't like the mess the bugs make on my property but demand this guy must continue to endure the mess to accommodate your fishing and be a convenience to you because you refuse to be inconvenienced by the bug mess.

Now I understand.


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## Daz (Jul 14, 2015)

DuckNut said:


> Not sure I am fully following your logic on this. Not wanting to prove anything: You told the man he was breaking the law by turning off the lights. Then you state that you used to have lights but removed them.
> 
> Now you say god damn it. I don't like the mess the bugs make on my property but demand this guy must continue to endure the mess to accommodate your fishing and be a convenience to you because you refuse to be inconvenienced by the bug mess.
> 
> Now I understand.


Actually I don't think you do, I do think that you presume and assume a bit too much though.

I didn't tell him that turning off his lights was breaking the law - I did tell him (after his rant telling me I can't fish there) that interfering with fishing was a violation of FL law. I don't think that the sole act of turning off the lights was a violation, but I did think it was a good question and was interested to hear some other opinions.

Yes I had lights and yes I removed them - Not for any reason related to fishing, and at no time did I ever demand anything of anyone. I have another neighbor with lights (and a boat). He complains about the mess (but not about anyone fishing them) and keeps them because he likes the look more than he hates the mess on the boat.

I'll be happy to continue a discussion with you via PM if you wish, but I'm done with this thread.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

DWJensen said:


> Actually I don't think you do, I do think that you presume and assume a bit too much though.
> 
> I didn't tell him that turning off his lights was breaking the law - I did tell him (after his rant telling me I can't fish there) that interfering with fishing was a violation of FL law. I don't think that the sole act of turning off the lights was a violation, but I did think it was a good question and was interested to hear some other opinions.
> 
> ...


Good because it was cut and dried from the beginning. Even after all the opinions you still have not taken any of it into consideration. He can turn the lights on, off or completely remove them if he wishes and that's that! If you think that makes him an a-hole maybe you should rethink the situation. It's like going to someone's house uninvited and demanding they cook you breakfast.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Hmmmm. Breakfast at Macs!


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Fish-N-Fool said:


> The better man puts fish carcasses in a mailbox? hmm





Smackdaddy53 said:


> Then it becomes a federal offense...


It was my attempt at humor. My ex wife didn't appreciate my sense of humor either; cost me a nice bonefisher a few years ago.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

DWJensen said:


> Actually I don't think you do, I do think that you presume and assume a bit too much though.
> 
> I didn't tell him that turning off his lights was breaking the law - I did tell him (after his rant telling me I can't fish there) that interfering with fishing was a violation of FL law. I don't think that the sole act of turning off the lights was a violation, but I did think it was a good question and was interested to hear some other opinions.
> 
> ...


I agree with Smackdaddy. You learned nothing from the opinions and were in the wrong right from the start. Your attitude with landowners is why there are becoming so many issues and the fact you took that kind of an attitude with someone you knew is just the cherry on the ice cream float.

Just put your lights back in, live with the bug shit and pay the electric bill and have all the fish you want.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

SomaliPirate said:


> It was my attempt at humor. My ex wife didn't appreciate my sense of humor either; cost me a nice bonefisher a few years ago.


Me too, among other things I fished too much and apparently am too direct. I didn't lose much as far as material possessions and now I can do what I want without having someone bitching all the time about it!


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## Teeser (Jan 9, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You would be amazed at what's going on around here right now. Guys are stealing TVs, booze, Yetis, fishing gear etc. and there is one dbag that has been caught on video paddling up to docks at night and stealing stuff then finding the fire extinguisher on their boat and spraying the whole inside of the boat and then the security camera. I hope someone catches him in the act and shoots him.


This guy (or one similar) hit my dad's pathfinder. Made off with the GPS and a couple grand worth of damage to anything stainless steel.

My parents do have underwater lights at their house and it is not uncommon to find hooks, lures, and fishing line on the dock or even in the yard. This used to not bother me as much, but knowing my six month old is only a couple of months from walking has changed my perspective a bit.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Florida waters are public period the light is the home owners end of story.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)




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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm like Danny. I've dock light fished for like a buzzillion years. You are not going to teach a dock light owner anything. It's his light and he can do whatever....

Your best bet is to do what I do. Where darker clothes. When approaching a certain dock light, use the TM to come into the area, easily and quitely. I turn all lights off and avoid using head lamps or lights unless you can't re-tie in the dark (God help me when that day comes ). Then use the lowest amount of light you can get away with using. Never shine a light towards the dock. No slamming hatch lids or making noise. Don't bring the dog with you. Stay out away from the dock within a max casting distance from the dock. Don't pull right up to it so you are looking down at the fish like yer fishing out of a fish bowl.

Know what docks have a_ _ holes for owners and avoid them. There are plenty of others or do what Danny suggest and fish them very late at night or in the early a.m. I always check tides and set my dock light fishing based on that. You find that most perfect tides and conditions are not early at night, especially in the summer months. You want higher tides (Last half of the incoming and 1st half of the outgoing). Low tides = dead dock! No tidal movement = dead dock! Slack or dead tide - dead dock! Done!

Peak tides around the new or full moon are best (several days on either side of the moon). When the moon is at or near it's Zenith (high moon), it's better. Half moon tides are usually slow. If the moon hasn't popped up in the air and it's under the horizon on either side, then the bite will be slow. So then don't go.

What's this all mean..... You have a 2-4hr window, depending on tides and moon phase. Pick those times wisely and plan your trip around then and you'll find that you are out there less but when doing so, will be there at the peak bite times. Less fishing time, but more productive! You'll find that a lot of those times are when the owners are asleep.

Next, just be stealthy (no lights, dark clothes, don't stay too long). It's best to catch 1 or 2 fish at a dock and then move along to the next dock and give that dock and the fish a break and time to settle back down. You can always come back later and hit it for a few mins again. When you get a fish on, use the TM to pull the fish out and away from the dock and then fight the fish out away from the dock (out in the middle and clear from any obstacles that a fish could wrap up in) and out of range from the dock owner's sight. That way if you need a picture with flash, the dock owner will not see it as much. Also, when using a flash, try not to flash towards the dock (for the fishes sake) and so the dock owner wouldn't see it. Then once released, sneak back in for another shot at them.

Don't anchor up. Don't pole to a dock. Don't pin up! Don't shine your q-beam around like yer lost. Don't surge your trolling motor (stealth is key with a TM to get good eats). Don't talk to the dock owner or yell at them. Don't constantly hook their dock and then go up to retrieve your fly, lure or hook. That'll tip them off to you being there. I'd rather throw short, than wack their dock. Better yet, throw uptide, thereby missing the dock completely and allowing your presentation to sweep past the front of the dock with the tide, which will avoid hanging up on the dock altogether.

Note: White boat hulls will glow in their lights and can be easily seen from their window. Same thing underwater with the fish and the lights shining thru the water. The white hull bottom will glow underwater. Darker colored hulls make better night time dock light fishing boats. If your boat is white and your buddy's boat is dark, then take his boat instead. If you do it a lot, consider having your boat wrapped (just a thought) with a darker color. That's why I prefer darker boat hulls, aside from the daytime benefits with darker water. Same goes for darker colored OB's.


This boat alone had seen at least several thousand snook at night time alone, not including daytime fish.

It's all good. It's just fishing. With dock light fishing, you win some, you lose some and you have fun in the process. Don't sweat it, there's always another dock around the corner. Also, hitting it early morning can be a quiet peaceful thing too. It's just fishing and you are out there to relax, and catch a few fish and memories. 

Tight lines!

Ted Haas


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