# If a You Had $800 To Spend..



## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

The Dragonfly GPS will be the next I put on my Waterman and you will be able to pick one up for $499 or less if you can wait for Black Friday sales.. West Marine had them online last year for this price including the gold card and transducer..

I love my old Garmin 182c for the built in tide charts. I don't thing Raymarine units offer this feature..


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

> The Dragonfly GPS will be the next I put on my Waterman and you will be able to pick one up for $499 or less if you can wait for Black Friday sales..  West Marine had them online last year for this price including the gold card and transducer..
> 
> I love my old Garmin 182c for the built in tide charts. I don't thing Raymarine units offer this feature..



I didn't know they didn't have the tide charts. That is something I have always like about my Garmins also. Now that I am up in SC. That's important with these 6 foot plus tides ;D. The only negatives I have heard is about the mounting being flimsy. And it is a stand alone so you can't network it with other stuff.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Snook the Navionics Plat has the tides and current. Plus you get the Sat overlay. So I am gonna hold out for a sale on Dragonfly7 without a Gold chip. Unless somebody can convince me other wise


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## hferrell87 (Jan 28, 2013)

I just bought the Garmin 547xs and am very pleased with its performance so far. Being able to hook up through wireless is awesome for updates and creating your own track from you pc. I get tide info, wind speed, weather, etc... Good luck with your search!


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Simrad NSS8


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Choose a system that will accept the Navionics Platinum Plus cards if you want to run the satellite overlay.  I don't think the Dragonfly will.  Go here: http://www.navionics.com/sites/www.navionics.com/files/documents/Americas_CompatibilityGuide_4.pdf

The Humminbird 859c HD DI or 858c HD DI go for around $600 street price and are high resolution units that run the Platinum Plus.  The Simrad NSS8 is a nice unit but costs twice as much.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

I found the Dragonfly7 for $550. I will need the programmable card. Because my areas would require two cards to cover it. I assume I can get the Sat overlay with the programmable card. Gonna have to make sure. That is definitely something I need in the Glades.


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

Pretty sweet price on the Dragonfly 7 @ $586.50 with the Gold Card and Free Shipping. Sell the Gold Card and use the proceeds to help you get the Platinum...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0C1SMMH6F5QWVVSMXH4W


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## Les_Lammers (Feb 17, 2007)

I'm leaning towards a Garmin Montana marine bundle for $499.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

The Dragonfly will NOT run a Platinum Plus card.


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## crisslackwater (Nov 1, 2014)

The Dragonfly is NOT using CHIRP technology.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Somebody needs to tell Raymarine that. They clearly state that is using dual sonar chirp technology in ever add they have. Can you clarify your statement? Also GPSstore now has them at $530 with gold card. My local West marine stated they were not gonna have em on sale this year.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

> The Dragonfly will NOT run a Platinum Plus card.


This is correct. But it will Navionics+ Which is the programmable one. Which is what I need to keep me from having to buy multiple chips. But can I get the Sat overlays with the +?


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

You need to be able to run the Platinum Plus card to get the satellite overlay. You can not get a satellite overlay on the Dragonfly.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

So you cannot get Sat overlay on the programmable cards? If so that really blows for me. It means I will have to get two cards.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

> So you cannot get Sat overlay on the programmable cards? If so that really blows for me. It means I will have to get two cards.



You can get as many cards as you like, but you still won't be able to run a satellite overlay on the Dragonfly.


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## crisslackwater (Nov 1, 2014)

Sorry, I don't think I need to tell Raymarine anything. They know this and continue to mislead. 

You should spend your money as you see fit. For me, CHIRP technology comes at a price, for now, and it is a little beyond $530.00. Look around, anyone else selling CHIRP units at that price point? Talk to other electronics engineers, then form your own opinion.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

> Sorry, I don't think I need to tell Raymarine anything. They know this and continue to mislead.
> 
> You should spend your money as you see fit. For me, CHIRP technology comes at a price, for now, and it is a little beyond $530.00. Look around, anyone else selling CHIRP units at that price point? Talk to other electronics engineers, then form your own opinion.


That is the whole break thru with this unit. It was CHIRP at a lower price. Are you a electronics engineer? You kind of implied that with the "other". Can you explain the difference between the two? That was bold statement you made. Not saying you are wrong. Just when you have one of the biggest and most respected names in the business saying one thing. Then some guy on a forum saying they are lying. I would like to have some specifics on why. Everywhere I studied up on CHIRP was the same info. It's just a spectrum of different frequencies. Instead of the single frequency that has been used for decades now. Maybe you are confused with the stronger models for depths to 10,000' that the commercial guys use. And yes they are usually three times the cost of this unit. But it's still CHIRP technology at a lower power for inshore and lakes. And I don't know about you but $900 is a lot of money to me. The Dragonfly is off the table with me now anyhow. Due to the lack of Sat overlay. Looking into the A series now.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

For inshore fishing in shallow water a fish finder is sort of useless.  I didn't even bother to hook the transducer up on my latest boat.  Maybe this will help explain what Raymarine calls "CHIRP Downvision":

"So what’s the difference between the CHIRP capability found in $500 to $800 multifunction displays — such as the Raymarine Dragonfly, Lowrance Elite-5 CHIRP and Garmin’s smaller xs machines — and the original $2,000 black-box add-ons like Simrad’s BSM-2, Furuno’s DFF1-UHD, Garmin’s GSD 26, Raymarine’s CP450C and Humminbird’s new SM3000?

Chiefly: depth and power. Higher-priced CHIRP units and their higher-priced transducers can transmit signals across one to two frequency ranges (ranges that start at 28 to 60 kHz, for instance, to a high of 130 to 210 kHz) with 1 to 3 kW of power, reaching depths to 10,000 feet. These units pick apart the entire water column and operate more effectively than non-CHIRP versions at higher boat speeds.

Lower-priced 300- and 600-watt units usually send signals through just one frequency range for traditional sonar. Raymarine’s Dragonfly MFD and CP100 black box, for instance, chirp through the 170 to 230 kHz range for fish finding to depths of 600 feet. (Additionally, they use CHIRP DownVision imaging to better locate structure, sweeping from 320 to 380 kHz frequencies.)

“With the higher-end CHIRP sonar, you can dial in the frequency too,” says Raymarine marketing manager Jim McGowan. “So they’re kind of programmable.” These top units usually can display side-by-side views from both CHIRP channels simultaneously as well."


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Yeah that's kinda what I was getting. It is still broad spectrum CHIRP technology just not as strong. I don't need the $3000 unit to fish in 200' max waters. I want this technology because I going to broaden my fishing with the new boat. I live next to a 50,000 acre lake that is 200' at the dam. Although my time will be spent mainly chasing stripers on top. And spring bass on bed. It will also help on the coastal rivers. If it wasn't for the lake it wouldn't mean much to me either. My main goal is getting SAT overlay. I recently found a new area near Charleston from SAT pics. That had a completely different geological character than the normal pluff mud. It was hard bottom and clean water in the summer. Im tired of sticking my head in my shirt to look at my Iphone.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Opinions on A78
The only negative so far other than price. Is you cannot simply connect with the VHF DSC system. My understanding is it can be done at added expense and complexity. Still have to figure in the Plat chip cost.
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/raymarine--a78-multi-function-display-with-downvision-sounder-cpt-100-chirp-transducer-and-navionics-gold-charts--14907844


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Also anybody with a Lowrance that suffers from the common shut off problem. When it reboots do you still have your cookie trail?


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

I ended up getting the Raymarine a78. West marine had a Black Friday sell at $750 with the gold card. I couldn't find any negative reviews on it anywhere. They seem to be the most reliable units out there. And when I am way way back in the Glades that is what I need. I like the Garmin units also they are very reliable. But they are the only ones that are not Navionics compatible. And I have to have the SAT overlay feature. The Lowrance units have big time issues with shutting down. And the Hummingbirds have issues with their GPS. So these were off the table. On a side note I found that you can tie just about any VHF into most GPS units with a Seatalk converter. These can be had for around $70 on Ebay.

Here is a cool vid of the a78 if anyone is looking for a new unit.

http://vimeo.com/110124647


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm in the same boat as you (no pun intended) and I've been looking for a unit with Sat overlay.  Almost pulled the trigger on a Dragonfly and am glad I finally found out you can't get overlay.

If you get the Gold Card with the a78 - do you get Sat .overly or do you need to buy additional cards?

How the image quality in direct sunlight?

Thanks……...


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

No Unfortunately the only way to get the Sat imagery is with Plat+. As far as i have been able to come up with. I was told by a West Marine rep the downloadable ones can. But I am gonna call Navionics to confirm. If so that's the route I will go. Because I will need two cards for my areas. If you are in FL the 632(?) should have you covered up to Jax. As far as direct sun they are suppose to be great. And from the many vids I have watched. That appears to be true. You may want the a68 it's a couple hundred less. But with a 5.7 screen. I almost went it because I thought the a78 may be too big. So I made up templates from Raymarines specs page. And it fits perfect with the two beer holders I am gonna drop in the top. If that Dragonfly was Plat+ compatible it would be on there already.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

Swampfox, how come you are not looking at something with side imaging? Seems a whole lot more useful that chirp and down imaging.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Jim I was looking at some of those. I was thinking it would be cool on the coastal rivers. HummingBird has great side view. But their GPS has issues. The down view will be handy on the deep lake I live on.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

> Jim I was looking at some of those. I was thinking it would be cool on the coastal rivers. HummingBird has great side view. But their GPS has issues. The down view will be handy on the deep lake I live on.


Are you talking about the doughnut issue? I have the GPS with Heading sensor that cured that.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Not sure what the final explanation was. Just saw a lot of bitching about it in some reviews and forums.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Just ended 2 days of comparison shopping. Looked at the Raymarine a78, SIMRAD NSS7 and the Garmin Echomap 70s and 70DV. 

For my needs, the Garmin Echo 70s fits the bill best. 7" Hi-Res touch screen, best rated GPS receiver, Hi-Def Sounder w/tranducer included, BlueChart Coastal G2 charts. I'll seldom use the sounder function so the Garmin 70dv was overkill compared to the 70s.

I compared the Navionics Platimun+ Satellite overlay charts with the Garmin Vision charts and the Garmin had much more detail IMO. Found a couple package deals for $560 shipped. 

Really couldn't go wrong with any of the above mentioned units.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Net where did you find that at? Is the Vision a sat picture? I didn't see that if so. Hell I may swap it out I had it shipped to Westmarine. So technically I haven't paid for it yet. I like Garmin I have had several over years with no issue. But I didn't know it had sat imagery for it.

Edit: 
Yeah I did see that. It's a very detailed 3D chart basically. I really needed the SAT view. If it wasn't for a few trips to glades. I would have went with a more basic Garmin unit like the ones I had before.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

> Net where did you find that at? Is the Vision a sat picture? I didn't see that if so. Hell I may swap it out I had it shipped to Westmarine. So technically I haven't paid for it yet. I like Garmin I have had several over years with no issue. But I didn't know it had sat imagery for it.
> 
> Edit:
> Yeah I did see that. It's a very detailed 3D chart basically. I really needed the SAT view. If it wasn't for a few trips to glades. I would have went with a more basic Garmin unit like the ones I had before.


Check out this Garmin video - it shows how to overlay the satellite imagery over the chart (land, water and both) and it's detailed. BTW, the $560 did not include the Vision Card.

Go to 7:25 on the video and take a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Revsg6TeieE


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

I guess I didn't look into those because they were well over $1000 on most sites. I am seeing that right. You get the Vision for $160 that covets all the US? Damn it I literally just picked up my Raymarine and Icom VHF 30 minutes ago. I may be taking it back. Because the Navionics get you good on ten small coverage areas at $180 a pop. And I need two to cover my normal areas. I could be all in with Vision at $720. Instead of $1060 the route I am heading. :-?


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

I was completely confused between that vid Net posted and their website. So I ended up calling Garmin direct to get my answers. I told the guy what I was after and the fishing that I did in the Glades backcountry. He told me SAT imagery was not comprehensive on the entire areas. And that was mainly focused on major passages like the ICW and larger lakes. And it is geared to travel more than fishing. And also the coverage is in regions like the video shows. And that each regions msrp was $329 a pop. And from the video the regions were not very big. I guess that's why a lot of the packages with maps were around $1500 or more. So it looks like the Navionics is the only option for full SAT imagery of all of FL. I can cover from the Keys to SC in two cards at $189 a pop. I was hoping I could get that with Garmin. Because I have used them for nearly two decades now with no issues. Even beat on a 60s for years on my KTM 640adv with no problems. They make good stuff for sure. But if you want full SAT Navionics Plat+ is the only choice for now. So the A78 will be getting installed this weekend I hope.


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