# Smartest redfish



## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

As the title says who do you think has the smartest most skiddest reds. My vote is Florida because I live here and have only fished for them here and in Georgia one time in Georgia you could almost get close enough to grab them by hand.


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## BPancamo (Sep 27, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> As the title says who do you think has the smartest most skiddest reds. My vote is Florida because I live here and have only fished for them here and in Georgia one time in Georgia you could almost get close enough to grab them by hand.


Middle Coast of TX = Ivy League for Redfish!


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

Backcountry 16 said:


> As the title says who do you think has the smartest most skiddest reds. My vote is Florida because I live here and have only fished for them here and in Georgia one time in Georgia you could almost get close enough to grab them by hand.


Pine Island redfish are assholes..


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

UnitedFly said:


> Pine Island redfish are assholes..


10 4 on that if you ain't on foot good luck. And don't even get me started on Snook.


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## DW2018 (Aug 21, 2018)

Where I fish, the reds not only leave the area upon my arrival, on their way out, they tell the catfish where I'm at and what I'm serving for breakfast


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

A big redfish in the interior of the Everglades during winter can be spookier than a big bonefish... In winter all the organisms in the water die off leaving it crystal clear. Add to that shallow mudflats with no vegetation and they have a lot better eyesight than you want... as my anglers find out. Slot sized reds are much easier targets...


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

I've fished for them from the Mosquito Lagoon to the Lower Laguna Madre, and I think the Mosquito Lagoon beats the middle Texas Coast in winter by an eyelash, but both can be very frustrating.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I assume we're talking about sight casting on fly?

I'll let you guys duke it out for who has the second most challenging redfish.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Oak Island N C. Summertime I’ve fished many times. Never seen them tail or caught any other than rats on bait. I have seen them leave with the tide. Poled across a very large flooded grass flat last year not a fin or tail or push


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Not sure where all they frequent, but I seem to be quite adept at following them.....


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

TAMPA BAY, FL.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Quick, someone from Tampa like my post. Lol


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

Megalops said:


> TAMPA BAY, FL.


cut ladyfish calms them right down.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

anytide said:


> cut ladyfish calms them right down.


I think I hear some "cajun thunder" off in the distance...


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

Pine Island redfish might give you Tampa boys a run for your money. Sometimes they are spooking as you lift your arm to cast at 100 plus feet away.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

timogleason said:


> Pine Island redfish might give you Tampa boys a run for your money. Sometimes they are spooking as you lift your arm to cast at 100 plus feet away.


Yes sir Tim this is where I fish a lot also and the reason I started this post glad to know it's not just me. I guess whenever you are ran over all day by jetskis and Walter with his 30 foot sea ray boat he uses on Lake Michigan you get a little spooky.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

anytide said:


> cut ladyfish calms them right down.


Cheater.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Lots of specific areas are really tough, and not having fished any place in TX I can't talk to that. But for all the places I have chased redfish FL hands down and specifically Pine Island area is awful. The simple cause is just the pure number of boats running around.


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## Flatbroke426 (May 5, 2018)

Tx_Whipray said:


> I've fished for them from the Mosquito Lagoon to the Lower Laguna Madre, and I think the Mosquito Lagoon beats the middle Texas Coast in winter by an eyelash, but both can be very frustrating.


I agree with the lagoon fish. I’ve fished reds from the lower keys to the Mexican boarder and up the east coast to North Carolina. The fish in the lagoon have been chased and thrown at so much they are spookier than Islamorada Shell Key bonefish.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

timogleason said:


> Pine Island redfish might give you Tampa boys a run for your money. Sometimes they are spooking as you lift your arm to cast at 100 plus feet away.


Yup. They are probably interchangeable. Just depends on which areas get the most pressure.

I've spooked reds here switching my rod tip from left to right...down low...not even a casting motion. Nothing you can do there but laugh and look for the next fish...


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## Financekid1 (Jul 19, 2012)

I’d say Tampa bay for sure. I hate those fish. I see a lot of people saying the lagoon. I really have never felt those fish were that bad...albeit hardly see any big fish anymore.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

Megalops said:


> TAMPA BAY, FL.


These fish are pretty snotty..... Mosquito lagoon fish can be worse


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

In the past when the water was clear in the lagoon, usually winter time there were many days you couldn't even lift your arm to make a cast without spooking them. Since the water has been dirty they aren't as spooky. The bigger challenge for me has been finding fish to cast at.

I would say any location at this point that sees a lot of boat traffic, heavy pressure and has gin clear water has the potential to be very difficult.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Texas middle coast reds can be so spooky that they stay just far enough away from the boat that you can barely tell they are redfish. Then there are days when you can drop a lure off your rod tip and catch them. I call it “teabagging”.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Here's a better question. Where are the dumbest redfish? That's where I want to go.


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## Cej2525 (Jan 22, 2019)

el9surf said:


> Here's a better question. Where are the dumbest redfish? That's where I want to go.


In a deep freeze.

Sorry! I know I'm new but I couldn't help it!


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

el9surf said:


> Here's a better question. Where are the dumbest redfish? That's where I want to go.


In the U.S. its Louisiana, in Florida big bend takes the cake.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2019)

Ozello is the worst!
Not only do the fish not cooperate all day your probably buying a lower unit before the day is over!


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

prinjm6 said:


> In the U.S. its Louisiana, in Florida big bend takes the cake.


No fish left in Louisiana...sorry


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## Indoman (Jul 25, 2013)

Wait....so there ARE redfish in FL?


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## Viking1 (May 23, 2010)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Yes sir Tim this is where I fish a lot also and the reason I started this post glad to know it's not just me. I guess whenever you are ran over all day by jetskis and Walter with his 30 foot sea ray boat he uses on Lake Michigan you get a little spooky.


I fish all over in the SE (Texas not included) and the only place that spanks me is Pine Island sound. I was with a friend fly fishing near Tarpon Bay and had blow outs on 3 consecutive casts. I thought they were excellent casts but my friend who was from the area said that my landing was too loud. So he gets on the bow and casts to the next red fish. The way he casted was just so the line straightened out just above the water and the fly gently fell a foot to the water's surface. The cast was about 6 feet from the fish and fortunately the fish did not change direction, he twitched the fly once and it was fish on. Never forgave him for doing that to me


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

timogleason said:


> Pine Island redfish might give you Tampa boys a run for your money. Sometimes they are spooking as you lift your arm to cast at 100 plus feet away.


Pine Island Redfish are assholes. They have no in between. You can throw anything you want at them and they won’t eat. Other days I’ve gone out and they eat anything you put in front of them. Butttt those days are few and far between.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

Tx_Whipray said:


> No fish left in Louisiana...sorry


I believe you....


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Yes sir Tim this is where I fish a lot also and the reason I started this post glad to know it's not just me. I guess whenever you are ran over all day by jetskis and Walter with his 30 foot sea ray boat he uses on Lake Michigan you get a little spooky.


Don't forget the guys in the tower boats that would never consider to pole or troll to locate fish. Does Pine Island Sound still have one or two redfish?...lol


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Pretty much private pond ,the whole nc coast ,growing up. Believe it or not ,the currtuck sound was fresh water until 1970s huge bass ck it out on google map only the outer banks kept the salt water out.i m south of there. Pressure has picked up in last 10-15 years. Still not terrible. Mostly transplant genuine draft yankees . I can usually fish during the week,might see a rec boat on tue wed thur ,for sure on fri sat sun. Some monday. Picks up during old drum season. Mostly (3-4 ) small crab boats in the river/ sound on day to day basis. Good guys to know.stay safe . Most red fish here in high school. They think they know more than they do. They play more hide &seek than anything


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Don't forget the guys in the tower boats that would never consider to pole or troll to locate fish. Does Pine Island Sound still have one or two redfish?...lol


How could I forget the tower boats my bad Steve.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Tampa Bay...period


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Walter with his 30 foot sea ray boat he uses on Lake Michigan


Is there really a "Walter" or is that the generic northerner with too big a boat? (no shortage of those)


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

timogleason said:


> Is there really a "Walter" or is that the generic northerner with too big a boat? (no shortage of those)


Just generic Yankee with too big a boat.


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## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

Pretty much guaranteed every time I pole a shoreline in Pine Island... I will be overrun by a tower boat leaving a prop scar behind him.  I am developing a strong hatred towards these guys.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

In my experience, hands down Tampa Bay. You can't even get close to those bastards. As far as dumbest reds I've encountered, I'm keeping that information to myself.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Biscayne Bay Red Fish.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

I tend to think the conditions and age of the fish dictate the apparent smartness of the fish.
Generally, if reds are tailing (actively eating), they are less skittish. If they are in off color or dirty water, they are less skittish. If it is windy they are less skittish. If the fish have less pressure they are less skittish. This is also true for other species.
I have cast to permit that are actively feeding and was able to catch them with a 50 foot cast, but other days every shot was very long. Florida Panhandle Tarpon are easier to feed than Keys Tarpon even if they are the same fish. The toughest reds from my experience are big bulls in clear shallow water with little or no wind. This sounds like a great day, but all of my casts are very long. These fish will sense the boat from 80 feet away and you cannot make any noise.
I wonder where are there just more numbers of fish. It seems that Louisiana has more numbers and I have found them to be willing to eat. The biggest variable seems to be casting ability like was mentioned earlier. Everyone asks me where should they cast and the sarcastic answer is actually the real answer, “depends on the fish and the day”. Some of the most difficult fish I have fished for are big Speckled Trout in clear shallow water; I have never caught a really big one.

Mike


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## FLmatt (Dec 11, 2017)

My vote is for Tampa Bay. Although I’ve only fished for reds in Florida and Georgia, so take it with a grain of salt. I fished the Bay regularly for two years and feel like I made little progress in figuring them out. Between the jet skis, pontoon boats, and whitebait chumming bay boats, it can be brutal on the weekends. What I did learn is that low tides are your friend and your approach, cast, and retrieve better be damn near perfect to convince one of them to jump on a fly. But, I will say getting so many refusals will teach you alot.


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

mosquito lagoon bonefish


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I believe boat traffic has the biggest impact on skittish fish.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

There are places around where I fish where the fish are super on guard and spooky and places they're more relaxed. I mostly sight fish in shallow water, but when that gets frustrating there are other options at night, where they're as big & dumb as an OU Lineman.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I believe boat traffic has the biggest impact on skittish fish.


Truth! My best fishing days are always during the week when boat traffic is very low. I made my work schedule off Sun and Monday so I can fish on Monday's. If you really want to catch fish Tuesday and Wednesday are the ticket. I literally think they feel more comfortable as the days pass from the hectic weekends.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I believe boat traffic has the biggest impact on skittish fish.


So true. Try fishing in the Orange Beach area during the summer.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

I've never been to Pine Island, but, I don't see how its possible to be MORE spooky than a TB redfish when we are talking sight casting. I have literally looked at reds that go mach 10 to the other side of the planet. The glades is infinitely easier than Tampa bay and that's way harder than LA for example.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

"We used to practice on Tampa Bay redfish to catch bonefish in the Keys, now we practice on bonefish in the Keys to catch Tampa Bay redfish," noted fly fishermen Lefty Kreh said.


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## MMessana (Sep 28, 2015)

If there's fish more skittish then Pine Island reds, I wouldn't even waste my time on them. That was the most frustrating fishing haha


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## mxbeebop (Mar 22, 2013)

Tampa Bay Red Fish are in a constant state of terror. Why I keep going back for more is beyond me.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Serious question, but might sound dumb. If Reds in Tampa Bay are constantly run over by boats, do they eventually leave or just hide or some other alternative? Therefore are fish more difficult in a given area because the fish are smart or are they just not there anymore?
I generally choose to fish areas that are not fished heavily and/or areas where the fish are not ran over constantly.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

K3anderson said:


> "We used to practice on Tampa Bay redfish to catch bonefish in the Keys, now we practice on bonefish in the Keys to catch Tampa Bay redfish," noted fly fishermen Lefty Kreh said.


*lol* Thus endeth the discussion.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

crboggs said:


> *lol* Thus endeth the discussion.


May he rest in piece.


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## mxbeebop (Mar 22, 2013)

Mike Geer said:


> Serious question, but might sound dumb. If Reds in Tampa Bay are constantly run over by boats, do they eventually leave or just hide or some other alternative? Therefore are fish more difficult in a given area because the fish are smart or are they just not there anymore?
> I generally choose to fish areas that are not fished heavily and/or areas where the fish are not ran over constantly.


The fish are there you can see them from the platform. However they are extremely sensitive to the pressure wave off your skiff. Often they wont spook and bolt just rise up and push out of range. At worst they are so spooky like on a weekend they just look on the run all the time. A big factor to TB is not to fish where the fish are but where the people are not, but those locations are getting smaller.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

mxbeebop said:


> The fish are there you can see them from the platform. However they are extremely sensitive to the pressure wave off your skiff. Often they wont spook and bolt just rise up and push out of range. At worst they are so spooky like on a weekend they just look on the run all the time. A big factor to TB is not to fish where the fish are but where the people are not, but those locations are getting smaller.



Thx, I understand
How far away from the boat do these fish stay? I have seen this happen many time especially with bigger fish.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

They go to places kayaks cant reach and mary poppins (i.e. popping cork) cant run to.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Mike Geer said:


> How far away from the boat do these fish stay?


Clean shots at laid up fish are pretty hard to come by. You can get close enough to cast to them, but by the time you can see them they are already giving you the stink eye.


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## Ice Cream Man (Jul 16, 2017)

NC Reds are very cooperative. 
This Bull Red swam over to our boat & was in the net in less than 10 minutes...... ICM


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

He just wanted a hug so he could warm up!


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## brianBFD (Oct 25, 2017)

el9surf said:


> Here's a better question. Where are the dumbest redfish? That's where I want to go.


Anywhere on the west side of LA-23 between Belle Chase and Venice.
It's not that they're dumb, there's just so many of them.


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## Castmore (Jul 27, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> As the title says who do you think has the smartest most skiddest reds. My vote is Florida because I live here and have only fished for them here and in Georgia one time in Georgia you could almost get close enough to grab them by hand.


 Ozzello Florida, shallow clear expansive grass flats..Feral fish...


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## JDRProductions (Apr 9, 2017)

el9surf said:


> In the past when the water was clear in the lagoon, usually winter time there were many days you couldn't even lift your arm to make a cast without spooking them. Since the water has been dirty they aren't as spooky. The bigger challenge for me has been finding fish to cast at.
> 
> I would say any location at this point that sees a lot of boat traffic, heavy pressure and has gin clear water has the potential to be very difficult.



Paragraph 2 nailed it. I agree wholeheartedly, and this is why we get some highly “educated” (read run over by hundreds of airboats) lockjaw reds during peak duck season on Texas coast. Tricky but they’re fun and they make us better anglers.


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## JDRProductions (Apr 9, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I believe boat traffic has the biggest impact on skittish fish.


x2. Yep!


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Have fished both Pine Island and Tampa bay. They are snotty bastards in both places but the Tampa Bay Reds are hard core nasty to sight fishermen.

Last week I was poling a client in a skinny muddy pass in the mangroves. The cut was maybe 50 feet wide, 6" 8" deep and runs about a 1/4 mi. through the back of a small bay. You have to pole several hundred yards just to get to the cut.

I was on the platform and spotted a big Red swimming up the cut straight at us from about 200 feet away. My eyes are not that great he just stuck out like a turd in a punch bowl. The fish had nowhere to go but past us. My client got his fly out and had it sitting on the muddy bottom before the fish was within 75 feet of us. We were also totally blocked from his vision by the mangroves. 

When the fish was about 5 feet out he took a 2" strip and the Red blew up. He left a wake heading out of the area and he may still be running. This is about normal when you are in Tampa Bay water less than 12" deep.

That same morning we were out of the skiff during the negative low tide stalking the edges of cuts that were 4' to 6' deep. No problem getting 3 of the same snotty fish to eat small shrimp patterns creeped along the bottom of this darker water.

In Tampa Bay specifically the degree to which we fly fishermen handicap ourselves chasing reds is huge. It's how we want to take them and for me it is the only way. The extreme challenge is what keeps it from getting old.

I do believe that one of the biggest issues that makes our game hard on these fish is their reliance on scent. I think that the lack of scent is the missing link to reliable takes in super skinny water. In other areas sight and some movement is enough. Due to the pressure in TB I think they want all three, sight, natural vulnerable movement and scent to seal the deal.

Not long ago I fished a cut with my Uncle who does not fish the fly. He normally fishes with Gulp Baits and Shrimp. During a period of good tide movement we pinned the skiff along a good cut. In an hours time he hooked a Red every few casts and probably boated 20 fish. These were all Rats with a few bigger mixed in. He never left the skiff.

I slowly waded along the cut and in the same time period hooked 3 and landed 2. I know that every cast I made was smack in the middle of a pod of laid up fish but very few takes.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

Castmore said:


> Ozzello Florida, shallow clear expansive grass flats..Feral fish...


I can attest to this. Especially when during really low cold tides.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I can only answer about dumb reds on the upper Texas coast. For the most part they are pretty easy. I have often poled right up on them on the flats. There are days that they are moody but not very often. Big speckled trout and especially sheepies seem to stay just out of reach or just leave a smoke trail off the flats for me.


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

Man, I stalked a big trout for almost an hour in Esprito Santo bay a few weeks ago. I made some great casts on her, but she just stayed 50-60 ft away, and would just turn the other way any time a fly got close to her. I think I made 4 nearly perfect shots, but just no interest. Never even got a follow. She never spooked, just swam lazily away every time.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Tx_Whipray said:


> Man, I stalked a big trout for almost an hour in Esprito Santo bay a few weeks ago. I made some great casts on her, but she just stayed 50-60 ft away, and would just turn the other way any time a fly got close to her. I think I made 4 nearly perfect shots, but just no interest. Never even got a follow. She never spooked, just swam lazily away every time.


She sensed your presence as female sea trout almost always do. If she can not sense your presence, you have a chance.


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

sjrobin said:


> She sensed your presence as female sea trout almost always do. If she can not sense your presence, you have a chance.


So you're saying I need Trout roofies?


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Tx_Whipray said:


> So you're saying I need Trout roofies?


Woah buddy, check that toxic anglerinity.


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