# Beryllium build- the build no one wants but me.



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Longer and lighter will most likely make you happier in the end. Looking forward to it!


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Smackdadday I hear ya but between the kid and storage abilities I’m doing the best I can. I can do a bigger house and boat but at this time it kinda puts a hurtin’ on the long term plan.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Longer won't cost much more to build, but it definitely creates problems with storage and/or build space. Chris may have some suggestions on any adjustments you might could make that would optimize the hull for a shorter build.

Either way, it sounds like it will be sweet. Look forward to following along!


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

So far everything has been discussed with CM and Nathan. Still, it’ll be a sausage for sure. We think. I thank you for your guidance in advance!


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## The_Mullet_Shepherd (Mar 26, 2021)

Did CM tell you chop it off the stern or take a little out of each station?


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Or you can do less spacing between the stations to shorten it. On my Conchfish, I used 20" spacing instead of 18" to achive the extra length.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Or build an 18 footer with sponsons and recesses tabs and BAM!!!!, storage issue solved. That might be tricky with the Beryllium's running area at the stern though. So build a Conchfish with more freeboard and sponsons.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

I was not heavily involved in the mod/ CNC portion so I can’t give all the details but basically chop a few feet off the stern and the frames go from transom to #3 ( I think in i have that correct) I’d love a 16 footer but I only have a 19 ft garage. I had a boat that I had to put in crooked and it drove me nuts. Never again. CM did suggest notching the transom but my big concern there is what the heck I do if the sponsons interfere with the turn radius of the motor. I’m sure someone can provide an “easy” fix suggestion but I’m no engineer and I consider myself a novice builder at absolute best and that might be giving myself too much credit. Should I have decided on a conchfish with more freeboard, maybe, but I didn’t even think of that. One of the reasons I went with the design I did- more freeboard. My kid still occasionally licks doorknobs and eats boogers so I thought it was a slightly better choice along with the extra beam and stability. We’ll see how she looks when the frames get set up.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Do the 16' - that extra foot goes a long way. You can get a swing tongue to get it in the garage.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

You have seen this thread? 









CF16, CF17.5, 10 WEIGHT, BERYLLIUM comparisons


it’s a great day today, I have become a grandad for the first time. A baby girl named Luna. Life is good, Now onto skiffs.... These drawings show the subtle differences that make all my designs different but totally original. Please look at the CF 16 hulls shape as compared to how it was built...




www.microskiff.com


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

If Morejohn can help you with a Beryllium with a notched transom, I'd do that every day and twice on Sunday.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

15’ boat is pretty small. I’ve got a devil ray which is just under 15’ with sponsons and a Super skiff which is a little less than 16’ hull length with no sponsons. I’ll upload a pic of how they fit into a garage.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Sublime said:


> You have seen this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have just about literally read everything CM has posted on here and corresponded with him prior to this.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Just my two cent, which may mean nothing. The beryllium hull is designed to be 18'9" with a running pad. I'm build the 17'8" version now. You can do a shorter version, but it will be tippy since less of that flat part of the boat is in the water. I'd do sponsons with help before cutting it down to 15'. That hull isn't designed to do that because the flat part of the hull does start until the chines. Look up a HB guide with sponsons. A 17' boat with with sponsons and a swing tongue will fit in your garage. Either way, welcome to the building mayhem.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

I had a 15 ft whaler dunatless years ago, it worked- we fished 3 with gear. It was actually like 15’ 4” or 8 or something like that but with a 60 on the back- I’ve tried the swing tongue etc. had to go in crooked. Second guessing myself for sure now. I will continue to evaluate until that first piece of foam gets cut...


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Well... I got some thinking to do.


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## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

Bottlecap said:


> Well... I got some thinking to do.


Happy to send you the measurements from my 18 waterman sponson transom. Motor has no issue with turning and turning radius isn't affected. Also with the motor under the platform instead of behind it you wont hit it while poling. Sponsons also act sorta like a tunnel as well.


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## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

You could probably do a removeable tongue trailer and build the 17'... Something else to think about


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

dolphin on the left fits backed in straight with a 24’ depth and the HB On the right is about 19’ depth.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

There is more going on with a Beryllium bottom than a Conchfish bottom for sure. If I was going to build a notched-transom Beryllium, I would definitely want Morejohn's buy-in. I wouldn't have many qualms about, widening a 17.5 Conchfish by a couple of inches, adding some freeboard and a notched-transom. With recessed tabs, I bet it would fit in a 19 foot garage with millimeters to spare. 🙏 You'd want a trailer like is under @flyclimber 's Devil Ray on the right and have a slip out tongue fabricated. When you took it apart, nothing would stick past the bow.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

A longer hull will span chop better and ride smoother.


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## MikeChamp12 (May 17, 2021)

I can walk you through how to move that interior garage wall a couple feet. Or give you a hand if you’re around south Florida


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Until that first piece of foam gets cut it is all up in the air I guess. I went back an re read my exchanges with CM and he never mentioned the bottom or seemed concerned. Literally said “...this will make for a nice stable skiff at 15’.” when explaining how to shorten and/or notch and we followed his guidance. It didn’t seem like rocket surgery ( yes i meant to say that ) .Appreciate the feedback and it is all taken under consideration. 19 ft to build and store...


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

MikeChamp12 said:


> I can walk you through how to move that interior garage wall a couple feet. Or give you a hand if you’re around south Florida


I’m a little north of you in brevard county- but I’ve already tried to demo it with an E tech on accident while backing it in. I think it made that motor run better. Ha!


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Well dudes, about a week ago I was contacted by a fellow member who sent me some video of their full-size Beryllium. I was surprised to say the least but agreed with their disappointment in some of the boats characteristics. I was not doubting anyone here but I agree a 15 ft version isn’t going to do it any favors. I’ve had some other unfortunate issues pop up which would have put this build on an indefinite old anyway... until some things get figured out I’m going to figure out how to salvage this and/or look for a new design.

I’m also now convinced I can just fit a 16footer in the garage.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Bottlecap said:


> Well dudes, about a week ago I was contacted by a fellow member who sent me some video of their full-size Beryllium. I was surprised to say the least but agreed with their disappointment in some of the boats characteristics. I was not doubting anyone here but I agree a 15 ft version isn’t going to do it any favors. I’ve had some other unfortunate issues pop up which would have put this build on an indefinite old anyway... until some things get figured out I’m going to figure out how to salvage this and/or look for a new design.
> 
> I’m also now convinced I can just fit a 16footer in the garage.


I think a 16ft Beryllium without a pad would be a sweet, sweet setup, but I'm not sure if it's as straightforward as just continuing the hull lines where the pad would be. I would definitely look to see if that's a viable option. I would expect it to be like a slightly smaller HB Biscayne, or like a "skiffy" version of a Key West 1520, which is one of my favorite do-it-all boats.

edit -- I'm just assuming it's the pad that you didn't like, since I know some people aren't into "pad" boats. I don't have much experience with them myself.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

M


bryson said:


> I think a 16ft Beryllium without a pad would be a sweet, sweet setup, but I'm not sure if it's as straightforward as just continuing the hull lines where the pad would be. I would definitely look to see if that's a viable option. I would expect it to be like a slightly smaller HB Biscayne, or like a "skiffy" version of a Key West 1520, which is one of my favorite do-it-all boats.
> 
> edit -- I'm just assuming it's the pad that you didn't like, since I know some people aren't into "pad" boats. I don't have much experience with them myself.


My main issue is stability- I know it’s light, I know it’s a poling skiff but I have fished much smaller stuff that I was wayyyyyyy more stable.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Bottlecap said:


> My main issue is stability- I know it’s light, I know it’s a poling skiff but I have fished much smaller stuff that I was wayyyyyyy more stable.


It's all tradeoffs, but you can pick which compromise is right for you.

Lower deadrise is more stable and less draft, but rougher ride.
Wider beam is more stable and less draft, but less efficient on motor and pole (heavier and more drag).
Heavier boat feels more stable and _may_ ride better, but you give up draft and efficiency.
Standing lower feels more stable, but lower freeboard is likely to get wet or stuff the bow.

There's also different ways to interpret stability (with kayaks a big thing they talk about is primary vs. secondary). Also, a boat can have very different characteristics leaning while on plane/turning vs walking around while at rest in the water.

Send me a PM if you want to discuss what you saw and how it might be corrected/reduced. I'm definitely no skiff expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm guessing you won't need to scrap/sell the stations you have already gotten cut, although I'm sure there would be a market for them if you did want to sell (assuming they aren't customized to a cut-down version of the skiff).


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## C Brueckner (Mar 22, 2016)

Sorry to send the videos 🙈🙈 haha but happy to help make an educated decision


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

C Brueckner said:


> Sorry to send the videos 🙈🙈 haha but happy to help make an educated decision


Nah, I appreciate it.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

I emailed CM like a month ago. He basically said if you are worried about stability, build it a little heavier, or as heavy as you want. Since then I’ve had some health stuff pop up that has taken priority and still does...
A week or so ago I set the molds up in my garage on the floor to get a look. It doesn’t look as stumpy as I expected BUT let’s just say my work area is tight. I discussed idea of scaling a 16 down proportionally in all dimensions (like what is done with bateau designs), and I haven’t run the idea past CM yet. I’ve been working on the garage getting rid of things. It might end up that I’m making a deal out of nothing when I am done. More cleaning tomorrow and I’m going to at least source the lumber for my strong back. Planning rectangular 3.5ft-4 wide and about 1-1.5 ft tall with wheels which should put the keel at about 3 ft or so. Should work ok for a shorter guy like me. My work bench is about 3 ft and it has worked well so far. I think 2x4s should be sufficient. If I can’t get good lumber I’ll have to research how get everything level if I have to float the frames. I’ll post progress if and when there is some.


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## Chrisbrocci (9 mo ago)

Bottlecap said:


> I emailed CM like a month ago. He basically said if you are worried about stability, build it a little heavier, or as heavy as you want. Since then I’ve had some health stuff pop up that has taken priority and still does...
> A week or so ago I set the molds up in my garage on the floor to get a look. It doesn’t look as stumpy as I expected BUT let’s just say my work area is tight. I discussed idea of scaling a 16 down proportionally in all dimensions (like what is done with bateau designs), and I haven’t run the idea past CM yet. I’ve been working on the garage getting rid of things. It might end up that I’m making a deal out of nothing when I am done. More cleaning tomorrow and I’m going to at least source the lumber for my strong back. Planning rectangular 3.5ft-4 wide and about 1-1.5 ft tall with wheels which should put the keel at about 3 ft or so. Should work ok for a shorter guy like me. My work bench is about 3 ft and it has worked well so far. I think 2x4s should be sufficient. If I can’t get good lumber I’ll have to research how get everything level if I have to float the frames. I’ll post progress if and when there is some.


Was just browsing micro when I saw your thread. I am currently building a 16’ beryllium if you have any questions let me know. I was concerned at first with the 16 but CMJ told me the 16 with a 230lbs motor should be more stable then the OG whipray and it’s sisters. So far the only modifications CMJ talked about was smoothing out the edges of the running pad and making sure not to hard edge them after glassing and fairing. If you have an insta my account is chrisbrocci.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

No Insta here. PM me you number if you don’t mind. I’ll probably Call you some point with a head scratcher. Still looking at Carbon core vs Divinycell.


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)




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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Shown above is the Conchfish 16 hull with its deck on so just remove 2” from the width.
The Beryllium at 16’ long as you all can see is more skiff than the CF 16 in beam and height.
This is why I direct people to going this rout if wanting more skiff in as short a length as possible.
Stability will feel different for everyone. That’s why you see those baby crib bow stands on skiffs today. Not everyone is happy in light weight small skiffs. It’s also why some of us gave up skate boards, surfing, skiing, surfing etc as we got older.
This hull will be plenty stable if built to my specs. If over building it it will still be lighter than any all Carbon production skiff built today. 
Do not shorten my designs by moving the stations or scaling it down. Just ask me and as the designer I will explain the way to go or the options.
I take all this stuff very seriously as your hard earned free time is going into a build and my reputation is on the line. 
Hope this helps a bit.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Thank you Chris. I spent all weekend cleaning out the garage. I got rid of a ton that I realized I didn’t need and some that I still wanted. I now have 19x10 to work which is about 2 more than I had a few days ago. I know you get a ton of emails but we did exchange emails about this. JG cut the molds for me following your advice. If I set up the molds and I think I have the room to move around and work on a 16 I’ll have to get one more mold cut and and sincerely apologize for wasting your time for the help you’ve provided me so far. Seeing what other people have done based on your plans, any screw up is on me.


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Bottlecap said:


> Thank you Chris. I spent all weekend cleaning out the garage. I got rid of a ton that I realized I didn’t need and some that I still wanted. I now have 19x10 to work which is about 2 more than I had a few days ago. I know you get a ton of emails but we did exchange emails about this. JG cut the molds for me following your advice. If I set up the molds and I think I have the room to move around and work on a 16 I’ll have to get one more mold cut and and sincerely apologize for wasting your time for the help you’ve provided me so far. Seeing what other people have done based on your plans, any screw up is on me.


No problem, I posted the pictures to show the other arm chair builders/speculators what’s up.
A picture is worth a lot of going back and forth.
Cheers


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## The_Mullet_Shepherd (Mar 26, 2021)

Bottlecap said:


> No Insta here. PM me you number if you don’t mind. I’ll probably Call you some point with a head scratcher. Still looking at Carbon core vs Divinycell.


Go with Divinycell if you can find it. I've held both in my hands at the same time and the Divinycell is noticeably more resistant to denting from squeezing between fingers.


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## GoGataGo52__20 (Jun 26, 2016)

Gonna be sweet bottle cap, I’m excited to see the work. I myself want to tackle a home build, contemplating options. Best of luck


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

The_Mullet_Shepherd said:


> Go with Divinycell if you can find it. I've held both in my hands at the same time and the Divinycell is noticeably more resistant to denting from squeezing between fingers.


Divinycell and Carbon Core have lots of options.

For example D-cell H60 is almost identical to Carbon Core PVC60.

I think the one most people are comparing is the D-cell H80 vs. the Carbon Core PE80. Those are two very different materials that people tend to compare just because they happen to be the same density.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

I’ve posted this before. This is Carbon Core PE80 with 3 layers of 300 gram basalt on one side, 3 layers or 10oz on the other side. I ran over it with my Dodge Cummins. I think any of the cores are ample enough for most of our applications.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Nothing you haven’t seen before but I spent a large portion of today setting up the molds. Not done yet but done for the day.


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## The_Mullet_Shepherd (Mar 26, 2021)

bryson said:


> Divinycell and Carbon Core have lots of options.
> 
> For example D-cell H60 is almost identical to Carbon Core PVC60.
> 
> I think the one most people are comparing is the D-cell H80 vs. the Carbon Core PE80. Those are two very different materials that people tend to compare just because they happen to be the same density.


Not sure what CC I was comparing to, would have to ask @C Brueckner be sure.


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## C Brueckner (Mar 22, 2016)

The_Mullet_Shepherd said:


> Not sure what CC I was comparing to, would have to ask @C Brueckner be sure.


I just checked my receipts, it’s the PVC. The PE is the green stuff that Stuart used.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Ordered a case of H80. +13 bucks a sheet in the last two weeks. I know 15 sheets is probably overkill but when I factor in my upcoming mistakes/ some testing and the fact that it significantly cut the price per sheet to buy a case I figured why not. I’ll use it in something else and I’m sure I can unload it andhelp someone out.
Planning all epoxy/ basalt (haven’t priced basalt yet, I’m sure that will be a shocker too). Never worked with poly before so I’m going with what I’m comfortable with.
Ive worked with boat builder central’s general purpose marine epoxy in wood builds and I've had good luck. Also came across “tropical hardener” - from what I’m told, supposedly used by guys who build outside in high sun/humidity environments so super slow but has a brownish tint to it. I’ve never glassed anything this big before so im looking into it, at least for the hull. It’s very likely I’ll be doing all the glassing by myself, in my garage, in August, in Florida...

Did anyone who has built one of his designs buy or make the FRP for the chine flats? I think CM mentioned he layed them up himself.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

You could probably lay it up by yourself but it makes it a lot easier when you have one more person.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Go with the foam for the chine flats. The build I worked on FRP was used and it made shaping or foam and radiusing the chimes a lot harder than it needed to be before laying glass.

it will also save a little weight.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

texasag07 said:


> Go with the foam for the chine flats. The build I worked on FRP was used and it made shaping or foam and radiusing the chimes a lot harder than it needed to be before laying glass.
> 
> it will also save a little weight.


Yes, it's an easy modification to the stations because the chine flats are... well, flat.

Just get a 1/2" wide strip of wood or whatever, and scribe your offset. Really good point about shaping the soft foam up against a hard edge.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

texasag07 said:


> Go with the foam for the chine flats. The build I worked on FRP was used and it made shaping or foam and radiusing the chimes a lot harder than it needed to be before laying glass.
> 
> it will also save a little weight.



I’ve noticed some people have used foam. One thing CM keeps saying is stick to the plans. I was planning on laying up my basalt to make my FRP, making a pattern, cutting close and sanding to final... a little extra weight is ok with me.


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## Bottlecap (Feb 22, 2020)

Divinycell arrived a few days about. There was some damage to it that the distributor is working with me on. Needed the space in the garage so moved it to my bedroom/living room. My GF obviously loves how it spruces up the places. Hoping to finish mounting the last frame, get the transom traced on the foam and mounted.


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## bamaguy0 (8 mo ago)

Bottlecap said:


> I’ve noticed some people have used foam. One thing CM keeps saying is stick to the plans. I was planning on laying up my basalt to make my FRP, making a pattern, cutting close and sanding to final... a little extra weight is ok with me.


For reference, I asked Chris about this a couple days ago. Here's my question and his answer.

"I noticed the pocket chine and lower surface of the upper spray chine both call for 1/4" solid laminate. Every build thread I've seen so far appears to use foam for the surfaces. I'm assuming that's OK? Should I just inset the controlling features of the jig frames by 1/2" to account for the difference? Or would 1/4" foam be sufficient?"

"Just use the foam you are using for your hull. You don’t need to recut the stations."


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