# Tarpon Success Guided vs Unguided



## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Oh and lets not get bogged down in the "its more rewarding to catch one on your own thing". Just what are your chances DIY vs a good guide?


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

68.9% !

I would say going with a guide who is familiar with the water is always going to be more beneficial than running out into new territory. Not just for finding fish, but knowing their patterns/habits as well as what type of flies get them all amp'd up. The type of tarpon fishing you're used to will play a part in this as well. For me, its easier to run out on the beach side of Boca Grande and find moving fish than it is to find them laid up in ENP.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Based on personal DIY efforts and watching the guides I know in my area...I think your odds of success with a guide are 2-3X better with a good guide who is on the water every day for weeks at a time...


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## TylertheTrout2 (Apr 21, 2016)

woooooooof, I'd say it depends a good amount on where you are fishing (clear water, black water, muddy water) and I'm assuming were talking large migrating or at least 80+ pound fish...?

I'd say 50 - 70% increased chance of hooking up - with a guide

Although our last trip to the keys we got skunked with our guide and got into some tarpon DIY with some local help from some lower keys bar patrons! hehe

Have fun!!


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## mxbeebop (Mar 22, 2013)

You can have some success in the back of a lineup. However being in the prime spot during a push is what makes the difference and you need time on the water to understand the patterns.

I'd say with a guide 80% increase on day one. Decreasing with days on the water.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

As most have mentioned here odds go WAY up with a qualified guide in unfamiliar waters.


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

Depends on how much time you want to put in. Got one day? 1000% in favor of the guide. Got a week? Still give the edge to the guide. The scales tip towards the diy route as the available time to spend in the fishery lengthens. Even then you're better off starting with a guide.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Really depends on where you’re going. Keys... maybe a 25% difference. The glades or other dark water places like Brunswick ga, easily a 300% difference. Any way you look at it comparing first day on the water no matter where you go your chances increase with a guide.


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## westsidefly (Aug 15, 2014)

How much time are you investing? If it's a week or less, get a guide. You can tough it out if you're going to be in the area for the season. It's hard to put a number on it but I would say it's significant.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

The biggest thing is the guides talk to each other and know where the fish are and what they are eating, not last week but today.


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Rick hambric said:


> Really depends on where you’re going. Keys... maybe a 25% difference. The glades or other dark water places like Brunswick ga, easily a 300% difference. Any way you look at it comparing first day on the water no matter where you go your chances increase with a guide.


Their are no poon off the ga coast. Those rollers are Flipper.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I think the chances improve way more than 25% in the keys. That doesn't mean the fish will eat, but being in the right spot to get consistent shots on fish improves your chances greatly. It can be a very difficult place to fish if you don't know the waters. Everything looks fishy, but some places are far more productive than others. The amount of area to cover is overwhelming so just knowing how to narrow it down is a challenge. Knowing where the fish have been, the tides and how the fish stage on the flat on any given tide is critical. Factor in optimal sun angle and wind direction and you can easily spend a long time getting an area dialed in.

For instance the guide I regularly fish with knows which part of the flat and which sand holes to setup in depending on the tide and time of day. He has most of them named, that's how much time he spends on them. On queue the fish will start pouring through that area. Had you been in that same spot an hour earlier you wouldn't have seen anything because tide wasnt right.

Lots of other variables to consider. Some of the local guides are pretty protective of their spots. They also work in a wolf pack in a sense. They will share real time info to help their buddies. I have seen my guide put other guides on fish frequently and the same courtesy is also extended to him.

If time is on your side the diy chances improve quite a bit. Under a week and you are way better off with a guide in most cases. You can get lucky for a day or two, but knowing how to make the best of less than ideal conditions is how they earn their money.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

flysalt060 said:


> Their are no poon off the ga coast. Those rollers are Flipper.


evidently you’ve hooked one of those little ones over there!


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Guide gives you Minimum double the chance unless the person you are fishing with knows the area.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

I think it's a bit of a no brainer that a good, reputable guide will improve your chances greatly, however I think DIY anglers today have some real advantages over DIY anglers from not too long ago. Google Earth and Satellite imagery really gives you an opportunity to narrow the areas you want to try before you ever launch the boat.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

“Good well known”. I don’t care about how “well known” a guide is. I have been more impressed with guides of exceptional abilities that very few people have heard of. If you are going somewhere new and can fish with a guide who comes recommended from someone you respect its a no brainer for me. The fact that guides communicate on a daily basis gives them information not available to a diy angler, when the fish are not pouring through that knowledge makes a huge difference.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Fishshoot said:


> I don’t care about how “well known” a guide is. I have been more impressed with guides of exceptional abilities that very few people have heard of.


Exceptional guides are always well known even if they aren't advertised. 

The best ones around here are too busy (booked up) to spend much time on social media.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

If you are talking a guide that is a day in and day out tarpon fly guide..... Then it's a 400% (in other words, 4 times more likely) chance of success over someone coming into an unknown area, even with experience from another area. Steve, as you say... "so many variables!" Where are they this day when the tides doing this and where are they that day when the tides are doing that. Moon phase, location, water depths, actual time they are there relative to the time they show up, food source, light and weather conditions, inside, outside. Some fish will run a trail behind the string in front of them. IF you are not on that exact spot, even though your buddies tell you that to "go to that area" and they are there" but you are not in that exact trail (which may only vary from 3-10ft in an exact trail, just like cows migrating from one end of a field to another), then you missed them. You can always rely on sighting them up top and happy, or down lower in gin clear water. So you sometimes have to be right in their way before you can see them and get a read on what they are doing and which direction they are heading.

What lines you are using, how to strip the fly in based on what they want it to do in that area.... Fly colors, sizes and variations. Back in my prime, I use to bring a vise and materials with me and would be tying every night since they would be on a certain fly one day, but refuse it the following day and so I had to change it some to get them to eat again. If you look at the actual flies that the guides are using vs recommended tarpon flies for that area, you'd be surprised to see how different they are and you might not even considered it a tarpon fly. That's the honest truth.

It's not uncommon for me to go back to some of my tarpon home waters, which I know and loved for years and have to spend a week (even with my experience on those same fish year after year) to dial into them. Honestly, I love those fish but they are a PITA!!!

Like the other said, if you put in the time when you get there and keep changing up and searching for the right formula, you might get lucky and find the right ticket. But then again, it's a crap shoot.

Not all the guides will share intel back and forth between other guides. Some are loners and keep their stuff to themselves, while other will have a very close loop tight circle of a few guide buddies and even one or two hard core non guides poon guys, that share info within their tight lipped circle.

One alternative is book a guide for a day or 2 and give them a heads up on your plans find the fish and what flies they are eating and then go DIY for a few days thereafter. Some guides might be totally ok with that since they know that later on, they will change where they hold up or lay up and change what flies they are willing to eat. So you wouldn't be much competition to them and they still made a little money off of you in the mean time. But with all the pressure on those fish these days, they can be very quite about giving up too much details and even point you over to another area where you might see some fish but not interfere in their honey hole they need for the charter they have the following few days..

That's just the nature of how that is with tarpon fly fishing, as your buddies already know in their area.

Steve, I know you said you only wanted to see percentages, but this is my honest experience on that particular subject and still remains the case even on waters I regularly fish, if I haven't fished them in a while.

Ted Haas


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Rick hambric said:


> evidently you’ve hooked one of those little ones over there!


Never have and I am from Savannah originally. Have seen them and my father and friends saw them in the ogeechee river back in the '50's. They were scarce for years.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

flysalt060 said:


> Never have and I am from Savannah originally. Have seen them and my father and friends saw them in the ogeechee river back in the '50's. They were scarce for years.


120’s are everyday occurrence down there now. (With the right guide) Hard part is finding them in the chocolate milk, I mean water.


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

Depends on where u r Fishin!

I am mediocre and if I get ten shots at fish on my own I would think I would get 20-25 when I am with a guide in the same area. In Biscayne bay a guide i have fished with pulls up and knows exactly where the light bottom is and is within 50 feet of the line the fish are on. It may take me 30 minutes to figure it out. 

I think 3 times more likely w. Guide because you get more solid shots when the fish are on and u aren'
Figuring out the little nuances that they already figured out.

I agree w Ted fish a day or two w a guide and be up front about fishing the rest of the days on your own. My experience is that most guides are happy to share.


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## bonehead (Dec 9, 2016)

I have done trips where I thought I wouldn't need a guide, and mid-trip I am struggling and book a guide for a day to get a better feel for things. It truly helps and you are supporting the local economy and small business, which I am a big supporter of.

That being said, I refuse to hire a guide here in SoFlo now that I have a boat. To me, it is much more rewarding catching fish that you truly worked for and learned the area, best tide, etc. If I'm going to a place like Turks and Caicos this summer, I'll definitely book the first day with Cast Will Vallely of Bonefish Unlimited to get a better feel for the water. 

Good luck on the trip, hoping to get some poon mojo myself this upcoming season!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I've never caught a Tarpon with a guide. I've been with 3. 2 in the Keys and 1 in Tampa
I had more follows and saw more fish DIY
I'm going DIY this spring

If you have the boat, use it


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

The other thing is if the guide knows you have a boat they are not going to take you to the good spots


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## Cronced (Nov 18, 2016)

Hire a guide for a day or 2 and be up front with how long you will fish the area and how often. Most guides, in my opinion, understand that you won't be able to do what they do even after they show you.

As for your original question, I think odds go up considerably with a guide in unfamiliar waters. How much? Well, like anything else, the correct answer is "It depends."


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

First I was asking a more generic question. Not for myself. But that said. I would not hire a guide then go out in my own boat after a day or two. Not the way I do things. Even if I was up front with the guide. To me it was more about going guided and not having to deal with hauling the boat and all that goes with it versus using one's own boat, saving money, having the satisfaction of DIY with less overall success.


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## k-roc (Feb 8, 2018)

I rented a flats boat for a couple days in April 2013. It was a nervewracking experience driving it in the Keys, out of Islamorada. The boat was a 25 year old Hewes Redfisher with a 120 hp two stroke gas guzzling POS. It had a massive crack on the stern. The cable steering was a bit scary too. I was mostly terrified it was going to break down at any moment.

Day one had my wife and I poling around a bay on the Gulf side. High winds and clouds made it hard to spot anything whatsoever. Mullet were splashing everywhere. My wife thought she spotted a permit, so I quickly changed rods. At that very moment a large tarpon swam by, haha, isn't that the way it goes! That "permit" was a dark spot on the bottom..
An hour later some more mullet splashed around, so I layed my rod down in frustration, and then watched a string of 12 tarpon swim by!
As it turned out we ended up in exactly the right spot that day, we drifted helpessly over close to a hundred layed up fish. Poling in a gale is not easy!

The next day was sunny at least, but still really windy. We bee lined it to our honey hole. I staked the boat out in the wind and we waited for a few hours. The fish from the day before were nowhere to be seen.

I started poling again, my wife on the bow ready to rock. Three fish were coming straight at us. Deb layed out a perfect cast with a chartreuse SS Flies Foxy Tarpon. The lead fish ate it and was immediately headed for the horizon. We actually had that fish on for about 5 minutes which is pretty good by our standards.

I now hire an awesome guide in the Lower Keys for a couple of days each year. There's zero stress of running aground or breaking down. We don't necessarily do that much better but we certainly get the shots! Those ocean side fish are hard to feed!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

k-roc said:


> I started poling again, my wife on the bow ready to rock. Three fish were coming straight at us. Deb layed out a perfect cast with a chartreuse SS Flies Foxy Tarpon. The lead fish ate it and was immediately headed for the horizon. We actually had that fish on for about 5 minutes which is pretty good by our standards.
> 
> I now hire an awesome guide in the Lower Keys for a couple of days each year. There's zero stress of running aground or breaking down. We don't necessarily do that much better but we certainly get the shots! Those ocean side fish are hard to feed!


Dude..... guide, no guide.... You have us ALL beat! You have a gal that can feed a fly to a tarpon and.... well... that's all that counts! You rock!


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## k-roc (Feb 8, 2018)

Haha! In her case she does way better without a guide. She has complete meltdowns when she's on the bow and there's a couple hundred fish coming at us. Too much pressure, it throws her off her game big time.


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