# New Hells Bay 2019???



## Dkorelitz

Anyone know what news Hells bay has for 2019??


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## texasag07

Probably just some more giant tower boat.


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## Capnredfish

Price increase?


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## el9surf

My guess is something geared more towards the entry level market.


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## Capnredfish

el9surf said:


> My guess is something geared more towards the entry level market.


With a price increase


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## Dkorelitz

If you go on youtube & watch Ca Richardson on the fly he mentions it & for a split second shows you a boat coming out of a mold.


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## MariettaMike

I’m getting one, and I don’t even know what it is.


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## SomaliPirate

They're making a pontoon boat-The Hell's Bay Gandy model


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## flyclimber

Following


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## SCFLY

Stripped down skiff without astronomical prices.


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## Battfisher

MariettaMike said:


> I’m getting one, and I don’t even know what it is.


I've been on here for a long time, and this is the first post that made me actually laugh out loud.


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## Capnredfish

New logo. There really is only so much you can change on a skiff. They all have hulls, bow, caps, hatches, switches, wheels, gas tanks. You can tweak shapes and position of things. But a new Logo. That’s big.


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## Dillusion

tbh they should just re-introduce something like the skate. chris still has various molds in the back warehouse and people keep asking for it year after year.


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## MooreMiller

Hopefully they don’t follow Glock’s techniques for putting out new products.


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## Capnredfish

I know, they jumped into the cooler market.


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## tailchaser16

MariettaMike said:


> I’m getting one, and I don’t even know what it is.


Hilarious!! I don't care who you are.


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## Rick hambric

My guess is something in the 19-20ft range to compete with the vantage and chittum’s 21...??


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## Smackdaddy53

Merger


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## KCTim

bass boat


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## Guest

~20 second mark in this video


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## backbone

I bet its the carbon innegra upgrade to compete with the drake brothers.


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## Rick hambric

backbone said:


> I bet its the carbon innegra upgrade to compete with the drake brothers.


they did that for capt. scott owen's professional last year...…


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## duppyzafari

Dillusion said:


> tbh they should just re-introduce something like the skate. chris still has various molds in the back warehouse and people keep asking for it year after year.


They can buy a 2019 version for less money than the 2008 version, today, from Nanocraft Boats!


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## EdK13

Capt. Benny Blanco in his new Carbon Innegra Professional powered by a Yamaha Outboards 90hp SHO. 11/18/2018 HB Facebook.


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## yobata

EdK13 said:


> Capt. Benny Blanco in his new Carbon Innegra Professional powered by a Yamaha Outboards 90hp SHO. 11/18/2018 HB Facebook.


How much lighter is this than the standard layup?


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## backbone

I dont think its that much lighter, maybe 50lbs?
Its just a product that doesnt hold water, if water gets in there.


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## EdK13

backbone said:


> I dont think its that much lighter, maybe 50lbs?
> Its just a product that doesnt hold water, if water gets in there.


Yep I think I think I recall 50-60 lbs weight loss was mentioned somewhere... Hydrophobic materials are interesting. Plus, according to HB: " Carbon Innegra is a replacement for glass and kevlar in our laminate schedule. CI has increased dampening qualities and impact resistance. It also allows us to decrease overall skiff weight."


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## Tx_Whipray

el9surf said:


> My guess is something geared more towards the entry level market.


I thought that was the Waterman...


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## el9surf

Tx_Whipray said:


> I thought that was the Waterman...


At 45k+ new I wouldn't call that an entry level product.


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## Tx_Whipray

Not anymore, but that was the thought behind the Waterman back in the day.


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## K3anderson

SomaliPirate said:


> They're making a pontoon boat-The Hell's Bay Gandy model


Best comment ever.


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## crboggs

K3anderson said:


> Best comment ever.


Chadbro can't wait, already has his deposit in...


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## el9surf

Carbon innegra deck boat with twin 300's and 3 power poles. Anodized stripper pole is an optional upgrade.


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## Skiffmizer

I guess it’s an “entry level” 16 waterman/Whipray with no hatches and open bulkheads.


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## Tx_Whipray

Skiffmizer said:


> I guess it’s an “entry level” 16 waterman/Whipray with no hatches and open bulkheads.


$35K with a tiller 25 and a galvanized trailer?


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## Skiffmizer

Tx_Whipray said:


> $35K with a tiller 25 and a galvanized trailer?


Sounds about right


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## scottsflyshop

I was there the other day, it's a sportfisher that floats in 6", runs in 4" and raises fish. It's a different kind of sight fishing on the flats - not my cup of tea but the big money guys will snap them up.


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## Barbs_deep

backbone said:


> I bet its the carbon innegra upgrade to compete with the drake brothers.


All of their boats are innegra and they have had innegra as an option before Drake turned a Pro into a Nomad


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## westsidefly

I believe Flip’s Marquesa was the first two years ago. Just saying, I’m not sure where that fits in the industry timeline.


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## Skiffmizer

A helium infused skiff, with wings and a pressure wave dampener that self poles silently. Carbon inegra of course


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## el9surf

Barbs_deep said:


> All of their boats are innegra and they have had innegra as an option before Drake turned a Pro into a Nomad


I'm expecting another 6 pages after that comment. Last time I mentioned a skiff had heavy HB influence people came out of the woodwork. It's pretty clear the Drake is a significantly different boat, absolutely no influence whatsoever.


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## Rookiemistake

Maybe a left kidney trade in program with in house financing for the rest of the payments


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## mtoddsolomon

They’re going to do a 25’ bay with a skate on the bow as a tinder. With the skate on the bow it’ll actually float in less water than without it.


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## Barbs_deep

el9surf said:


> I'm expecting another 6 pages after that comment. Last time I mentioned a skiff had heavy HB influence people came out of the woodwork. It's pretty clear the Drake is a significantly different boat, absolutely no influence whatsoever.


LOL


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## Bluwave

backbone said:


> I bet its the carbon innegra upgrade to compete with the drake brothers.


Companies have been using cabron inegra for years. Lol


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## Rick_Hem

Oh lord... here we go. Hopefully it is something worth while. Lots and lots of options now and it is obvious other manufactures are putting pressure on those who were once considered the top dogs. Carbon and carbon/innegra are not new options but are certainly being brought to more of the fore front as all manufactures continue to innovate. Hell, as long as its not some weird two person bath tub you can carry on your hipster roofrack I am good. Honestly, I could see it being a throwback to the 16' Whip barebones but who knows, their market share could use a good idea as it is falling.

Whether people like it or not or agree there are lots of manufactures who take notes or designs from others and tweak a little here or there. I guess you can take it as flattery or not. Same reason the conchfish was born and same reason people still buy 20yr old HBs. That design is sexy and still performs.


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## wardicus

I for one am looking forward to it ... options are great . And hells bay does things right far as I can tell .... I’ll be looking for a new whip in a season or two


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## JPatCourtney

https://www.hellsbayboatworks.com/carbon-innegra-the-difference/

Looks like the change is indeed carbon innegra. Really cool that they're committing to making it standard on all models. 

"we keep components of structural integrity and build quality separate from the standards/options game. We have determined Carbon Innegra to be an integral part the best laminate schedule available, therefore we have implemented it into our line-up as a standard feature going forward."


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## Guest

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsykNkNh2JU/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1bhbsxryb4cmg


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## Sublime

The most interesting point (to me anyway) is that the Innegra can be fused, melted etc.... So, I'm assuming a carbon/innegra laminate could at a minimum be heated and formed into shapes. The possibilities could be interesting.


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## backbone

BOOM! MSers!


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## Rookiemistake

So they just keep moving more and more out of my reach... price should go up


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## Capnredfish

I would have expected a Hellsbay quality skid for the picture. Not the roofing scrap plywood. Why not post the weight difference in the skiff specs. No big news here. Still awesome boats.
And now we have to listen to CA in a mono tone voice, tell us how many more fish he catches now.


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## MooreMiller

Carbon biscayne???
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsykNkNh2JU/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1b3buaw3uuf99


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## Fritz

This is a disappointment for me, I was hoping HB would finally come up with something new for their skiff line. Their fit and finish are nearly peerless, but they seem to think that is enough. Makes me sad, my 2004 Cape Sable is built like a tank and aging so gracefully, I wanted two, still do, but there are so many fresher designs out there I doubt that will happen.


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## bw510

I’d like to see a guide18 with molded in spray rails. But that wasn’t a guide in the video so..?


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## Tx_Whipray

I'd like to see the Pro redesigned to either completely eliminate or drastically reduce the sponsons.


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## Str8-Six

I’d also like to see a sponsonless Pro.


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## Mlagoon386

The 50lb weight savings won’t really effect my 1400/1500 lb Marquesa


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## manny2376

After reading the Chittum review, the thought of an 18’ 12 degree skiff that touches 40mph with a 50hp, drafts 7”, coming in at $49.5k fully rigged... that also weighs around 300lbs is kinda crazy. As a current Hellsbay owner, that will eventually succumb to vicious cycle of wanting something shiny and new, I’m not sure dropping 50lb on a 15 year old designed hull will make much of a difference *for me. 

We haven’t even mentioned islamarine’s 10wt... 

Although mine is a south fla biased outlook, just adding some carbon ain’t that big of a deal and really doesn’t move the needle to a buyer willing to pay $50-60k for 18ft of fiberglass. The skiff arms race is getting interesting!


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## Mlagoon386

manny2376 said:


> After reading the Chittum review, the thought of an 18’ 12 degree skiff that touches 40mph with a 50hp, drafts 7”, coming in at $49.5k fully rigged... that also weighs around 300lbs is kinda crazy. As a current Hellsbay owner, that will eventually succumb to vicious cycle of wanting something shiny and new, I’m not sure dropping 50lb on a 15 year old designed hull will make much of a difference *for me.
> 
> We haven’t even mentioned islamarine’s 10wt...
> 
> Although mine is a south fla biased outlook, just adding some carbon ain’t that big of a deal and really doesn’t move the needle to a buyer willing to pay $50-60k for 18ft of fiberglass. The skiff arms race is getting interesting!


I agree! The proof is in the power, still have to run big power on the marquesa to get it to move, poles like a wet sock, and the new ones they messed with the angle on the transom and it seems to porpus a lot when running. *** all my personal experience!


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## manny2376

Random thought... will holding the hull over your head or lifting skiffs out of the water on Instagram be the new “poles in 4 inches” or “stays dry in 3’ chop”?


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## wardicus

Ok I’m pretty disappointed as well . Thought it might be a new skiff or perhaps something along those lines .... and I m not one for changing things just to change or to offer the “ latest and greatest “ .... hells bay does what they do well .... but I wanted more than carbon


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## devrep

making a "big announcement" production of this was stupid. It's not that big of a deal. A simple Facebook post or an article in one of the mags would have been more graceful.


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## Guest

Any truth to the rumors Peterson is selling the company ?


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## Guest

Source:


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## backbone

Hopefully they will fire the sales department and get some new staff. I know of two people that went to order a new skiff and the sales staff were so arrogant that it pushed them over to Beavertail.


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## Capnredfish

I heard it’s Mark Fisher from the Original Beavertail taking over.


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## Tx_Whipray

Capnredfish said:


> I heard it’s Mark Fisher from the Original Beavertail taking over.


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## Barbs_deep

Tarpon Nole said:


> Source:


Source - a sociopath and loyal minions.


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## Barbs_deep

backbone said:


> Hopefully they will fire the sales department and get some new staff. I know of two people that went to order a new skiff and the sales staff were so arrogant that it pushed them over to Beavertail.


Weird, I wrote a check and had a boat in less than a month. Never had an issue with HB. 

Owned a new BT as well and that was nothing short of a nightmare after a bad acid trip.


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## Guest

Barbs_deep said:


> Source - a sociopath and loyal minions.


Seems like people have heard the same thing with even more details 

I don’t know the guy, but where is this comment coming from ?


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## Barbs_deep

Tarpon Nole said:


> Seems like people have heard the same thing with even more details
> 
> I don’t know the guy, but where is this comment coming from ?


The article is 10 years old lol


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## Guest

Barbs_deep said:


> The article is 10 years old lol


Yes but he made it clear that was an old article


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## Godzuki86

Str8-Six said:


> I’d also like to see a sponsonless Pro.


Wouldn’t that essentially be very close to the whipray? The whip is just a tad narrower. I don’t see a manufacturer making a new model that’s close to a current model but just three inches narrower.


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## Tx_Whipray

Godzuki86 said:


> Wouldn’t that essentially be very close to the whipray? The whip is just a tad narrower. I don’t see a manufacturer making a new model that’s close to a current model but just three inches narrower.


It would be an almost 2’ longer Whipray.


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## Str8-Six

Godzuki86 said:


> Wouldn’t that essentially be very close to the whipray? The whip is just a tad narrower. I don’t see a manufacturer making a new model that’s close to a current model but just three inches narrower.


I meant an 18’ non-sponson skiff that can still move with a 60hp. They don’t have that currently. Would compete with Evo, Chittum and 180. Shallowness of Pro with bigger water capability. Also should turn better on the pole. I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in something like this.


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## Tx_Whipray

Str8-Six said:


> I meant an 18’ non-sponson skiff that can still move with a 60hp. They don’t have that currently. Would compete with Evo, Chittum and 180. Shallowness of Pro with bigger water capability. Also should turn better on the pole. I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in something like this.


Would also have more "glide" on the pole, and should fish 3 a little easier if you need to.


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## Godzuki86

Str8-Six said:


> I meant an 18’ non-sponson skiff that can still move with a 60hp. They don’t have that currently. Would compete with Evo, Chittum and 180. Shallowness of Pro with bigger water capability. Also should turn better on the pole. I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in something like this.


Ahh, ok. I see what you mean now.


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## Fishshoot

Weird, I wrote a check and had a boat in less than a month. Never had an issue with HB.

I think that is why HB is nervous, they are only builder I know of with virtually no wait time. Seems like longest waits are east cape, ankona and Cayo


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## Capnredfish

Might be one of the few boats people are not afraid to buy used either. That lessons demand for new. So less wait time. Probably a long wait for those curtains to cure on the Cayo. Ankonas are cheap compared so wait time I would expect longer because of higher volume build assuming people want them. East Cape seems popular so I assume higher volume as well.


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## Rick_Hem

My 20 bucks says HB is for sale.


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## Robin Williams

These are some of the funniest posts I’ve ever read attached to the fishing industry!


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## MariettaMike

Robin Williams said:


> These are some of the funniest posts I’ve ever read attached to the fishing industry!


...and the single digit post count for the sources is laughable too. Or should I say “suspect”.

Fortunately there isn’t a limit on the ignore list feature.


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## brokeoff

Barbs_deep said:


> Weird, I wrote a check and had a boat in less than a month. Never had an issue with HB.
> 
> Owned a new BT as well and that was nothing short of a nightmare after a bad acid trip.


I HATE bad acid trips...


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## jonny

Well Drake has proven how well carbon/innegra works with a HB hull. Seems like a logical transition. First I heard of innegra was in 09. When rookie F1 team Brawn shocked the world by beating everyone and winning the World Championship. Their cars were bullet proof. They could take impacts that would bust others into small pieces of carbon. The secret was innegra. The following year everyone was using it. And they still are. It is made in South Carolina from used milk jugs if I remember correctly. As far as price increase goes. I think it will be marginal. Because they use a lot of materials in their current process. All those layers of Eglass cloth and CSM need lots of expensive vinylester. And lots of other goo like core bond and methacrylate to hold it all together. All of which can be replaced with 2 or 3 layers of carbon/innegra. If they change from their high labor hand layup they do. They need to get onboard with epoxy infusion. And cut out a lot of those man hours and materials. If they want to stay viable as a company. Bragging that more man hours go into a 18' skiff than a Roll Royce/Bentley is not a good thing.


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## Stevie

I put Innegra in a new build of a very popular hull from a very popular builder (not HB) back in 2010. The intention was to save weight. Unfortunately they ended up making a very heavy boat, nothing to do with the Innegra. But I felt dumb for paying for weight saving fiber when the boat ended up that heavy. I will say that hull did feel very strong...probably related to the Innegra.


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## Net 30

jonny said:


> When rookie F1 team Brawn shocked the world by beating everyone and winning the World Championship. Secret was innegra.


That Dream Team of Jensen Button and Ross Brawn caught everyone else with their knickers around their ankles! Total domination.


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## Tx_Whipray

If I recall, they had some Aero that no one else had.


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## jonny

Stevie said:


> I put Innegra in a new build of a very popular hull from a very popular builder (not HB) back in 2010. The intention was to save weight. Unfortunately they ended up making a very heavy boat, nothing to do with the Innegra. But I felt dumb for paying for weight saving fiber when the boat ended up that heavy. I will say that hull did feel very strong...probably related to the Innegra.


I am pretty sure I know who you are referring to. It ember them talking about like it was gonna be their game changer. Then it seemed as if they dropped it completely. What was the reason for the weight gain? And how muvpch was gained? We're there any positives in ride or sound deadening that you noticed? Also was it just innegra or a weave with carbon?


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## Net 30

Tx_Whipray said:


> If I recall, they had some Aero that no one else had.


Yup....they had a top secret rear splitter that no one else had.


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## Stevie

jonny said:


> I am pretty sure I know who you are referring to. It ember them talking about like it was gonna be their game changer. Then it seemed as if they dropped it completely. What was the reason for the weight gain? And how muvpch was gained? We're there any positives in ride or sound deadening that you noticed? Also was it just innegra or a weave with carbon?


Hi Jonny

To clarify, the weight issue was not related to the Innegra, in my opinion. There was no carbon either. The boat was definitely quiet and the hull strong. I think the combination with Carbon helps a lot because early attempts at full Innegra resulted in decks that sagged.

What burned me is that the builder sold me the weight saving fiber, Innegra, for an upcharge, then was totally careless about weight in other parts of the boat.. specifically, I added hatches to that build, which weren’t standard. Those custom made hatches probably weighed 75-80 pounds each. My fishing partner called the boat “24 Hour Fitness” due to the workout opening the hatches. That boat was supposed to run in the 32/33 mph range with a Yamaha 50 2 stroke. We rarely reached 29. Draft suffered the same way. There were other contributors to the weight, some recommended by the builder as a weight savings, but totally erroneous. Another one was my choice and error in retrospect.


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## Capt.Ron

another boat that a fishing guide without daddy money, can't afford?


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## topnative2

An unnamed source has advised me that the news will be a SUP that comes w/ vertical lift engines which will enable the SUP to traverse dry spots.

Can't wait


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## Brad_Torren

Matts said:


> I heard this from a very reputable source......


How reputable? Have you tried talking to HB about the rumors? I just spent 2 hours at the factory and on a demo. I asked the tough questions, as I am ready to pull the trigger on a Marquesa. 

The build time for a Marquesa right now is 12-14 weeks.
The owner laughed at the idea of the company being for sale.

Seems like a lot of the information here is as credible as CNN.

I will be visiting two other skiff manufacturers before the end of the week. I'll be sure to check if any of them are turning the frogs gay.


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## secretsquirrelflyfishing

You definitely will not go wrong with the Marquesa mines been the best skiff I’ve ever owned I have been in and fished the Beavertail Elite, Eastcape EVO along with the Maverick 18HPX and although they are suitable boats they are not near what the Marquesa is for rough water loaded down then up on the flat poling for tailing Reds or on the beach fishing Tarpon; amazing boat!


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## Rick_Hem

@Brad_Torren so you are saying the owner of the company that is trying to sell you a boat, denied allegations that his company is for sale? *gasp*... can't be true then. Joking aide, that Marquesa is bad to the bone! Just hope you are in the gym if you want to push it on a regular basis. Any cool pics from the tour or demo? You know how we all like boat building photos! You else you going to demo?


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## Matts

Brad_Torren said:


> How reputable? Have you tried talking to HB about the rumors? I just spent 2 hours at the factory and on a demo. I asked the tough questions, as I am ready to pull the trigger on a Marquesa.
> 
> The build time for a Marquesa right now is 12-14 weeks.
> The owner laughed at the idea of the company being for sale.
> 
> Seems like a lot of the information here is as credible as CNN.
> 
> I haven't called HB because I don't really care what they do, at all. Just because HB might be for sale doesn't mean too much, regardless, as long as they don't keep a pile of deposits, like happened years ago when they folded
> 
> At this point, for sale or not for sale, if I wanted a HB, I wouldn't be scared to buy one.
> 
> Best,
> Matt


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## Capnredfish

Requires a hoist to remove it? Did the guy holding one get let go?


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## flyclimber

Should be pretty slick!


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## Rick hambric

looks like a Biscayne with less deadrise...


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## T Bone

Something similar to the EvoX perhaps...


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## flyclimber

T Bone said:


> Something similar to the EvoX perhaps...


Probably closer to the glide. I think.


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## manny2376

18’, no sponson with some dead rise running a 70hp, using carbon in the build... maybe? (Sure sounds familiar though).


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## T Bone

flyclimber said:


> Probably closer to the glide. I think.


Looks a little wide for sub 60" beam skiff to me


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## T Bone

flyclimber said:


> Probably closer to the glide. I think.


I would love that though


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## Snookdaddy

Skiffmizer said:


> I guess it’s an “entry level” 16 waterman/Whipray with no hatches and open bulkheads.


This is exactly what I was thinking..


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## manny2376

manny2376 said:


> 18’, no sponson with some dead rise running a 70hp, using carbon in the build... maybe? (Sure sounds familiar though).


Zooming into the pic, doesn’t look like much deadrise. So, I’m gonna ammend my guess. Lol! I don’t see any sponsons though, so I could still be partially right. Let’s just hope it doesn’t cost $60k... that alone would be a great “feature”!


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## Str8-Six

Hard to tell length and width but I’m guessing 17’ x 70”.


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## el9surf

Snookdaddy said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking..


I was thinking the same thing.


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## jsnipes

Purely speculating based on the picture but seems like there’s actually a decent amount of deadrise?

My guess is something between the pro and marquesa in terms of functionality.


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## TheFrequentFlier

My guess:

- somewhat of a hybrid between Pro and Marquesa
- no sponsons
- reworked the structure/HB build process so they could allow for an all carbon layup (i think they realize they're losing a lot of sales to Chittum because they just can't stay as relevant to tournament-style skiffs)

From Paul at HB, at least for a Pro, innegra only saves about 40 maybe 50 pounds. He mentioned stuff about how their current process doesn't really allow for them to do full carbon layups. (Current being about 1-2 years ago now, so maybe they figured it out. I would love to see a Pro shaped hull, full carbon option, with sponsons optional (;-) hah). 

..or maybe it's a jet boat..


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## MariettaMike

Tarpon Nole said:


> Could be a hint with the name ?
> 
> Eldora is an uninhabited place in Volusia County, Florida, United States. It is located within Canaveral National Seashore, south of Bethune Beach and west of County Road A1A. The average elevation is 3 feet above sea level. Wikipedia


 Ding Ding Ding, Ding Ding

I think it’s a modernized Mosquito Lagoon edition tiller no liner Whipray 16 with base price under $30k for boat, motor, and trailer.


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## HPXFLY

its basically gonna be a simple 16 whipray and heard the price is gonna be lower than people are expecting.


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## Tailer

Hopefully it's the reincarnation of the 16 Waterman with a simple layout and a smaller price tag. Maybe it's my eyes but it looks like little to no deadrise at the transom.


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## KurtActual

Str8-Six said:


> Hard to tell length and width but I’m guessing 17’ x 70”.


Looks like your width guess was spot on based on the deck pics!


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## devrep

the 1st deck pic looks 13 or 14 ft. camera angle on the 2nd deck pick it looks longer. if its a whipray or waterman they left out all the hatches.


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## jsnipes

hmmm, yea revising my opinion is going to be a small skiff. cool!


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## KurtActual

12' long, 5-6' wide, and 196# hull? Can you say shallow?


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## MariettaMike

My favorite colors too


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## Barbs_deep

manny2376 said:


> 18’, no sponson with some dead rise running a 70hp, using carbon in the build... maybe? (Sure sounds familiar though).


LOL. Jump to conclusions much ?


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## therealdrew

Looks like the invoice shows $30k


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## Snookdaddy

Looks more like a 16', but I sure you guys with the sniper photos know more about this.. 12' or 14' limits your customer base. A bare bones 16' whip, no hatches with an attractive price point is the tits.


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## 994

A bare bones 16’ skiff with no hatches and no new technological improvements for $30,000 is hardly an attractive price point.


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## Bluwave

mosquitolaGOON said:


> A bare bones 16’ skiff with no hatches and no new technological improvements for $30,000 is hardly an attractive price point.


Bruh, a used 15 year old version goes for 27-30k. Yeah, it doesn't have hatches but I'm sure it will be offered as an add on. All things considered, I think 30k is a solid price.


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## Barbs_deep

mosquitolaGOON said:


> A bare bones 16’ skiff with no hatches and no new technological improvements for $30,000 is hardly an attractive price point.


For curiosity’s sake, what else are you buying that will compare at this price point ?


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## makin moves

Barbs_deep said:


> For curiosity’s sake, what else are you buying that will compare at this price point ?


Travis will build a comparable if not better one for 10,000


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## Barbs_deep

makin moves said:


> Travis will build a comparable if not better one for 10,000


Ya my neighbor Rodney builds boats too, he’ll also fix your carburetor and babysit your kids for $40.


----------



## makin moves

Have you seen the guy's work or you just talking shit?


----------



## Half Shell

makin moves said:


> Have you seen the guy's work or you just talking shit?


I'll bite, who is Travis?


----------



## devrep

30K for that is a missed hook set on me.


----------



## KurtActual

Half Shell said:


> I'll bite, who is Travis?


Go check out the Conchfish16 builds...


----------



## makin moves

Half Shell said:


> I'll bite, who is Travis?


Look in bragging section.


----------



## manny2376

Barbs_deep said:


> LOL. Jump to conclusions much ?


Just being optimistic! Lol! I would love to see someone go head to head with that Chittum is doing... or at least improve the price point a little. I thought Competition is supposed to lower prices!


----------



## Barbs_deep

manny2376 said:


> Just being optimistic! Lol! I would love to see someone go head to head with that Chittum is doing... or at least improve the price point a little. I thought Competition is supposed to lower prices!


Haha. Chittums are nice for sure, but I would place them a notch above HB as far as prices. They’re way up there


----------



## HPXFLY

Everything is way up there these days, you cant touch a well built NEW boat for under 30k. 

And Im sure most peoples banks will finance a boat built by some guy named Travis. 

Gonna tell your lender "yea check out his thread on micro skiff, I need 10k for a hull 4k for a trailer and 5k for a motor he builds good stuff i promise" .. add platforms and other BS 30k dont look so bad to hook up to it a hellsbay and go fishing.


----------



## wooddrow

Barbs_deep said:


> Haha. Chittums are nice for sure, but I would place them a notch above HB as far as prices. They’re way up there


a notch above in price for sure. just out of curiosity I requested a price on their new 21 islamorada. 115k fully rigged. not bashing them or the price, I just wasn't at all expecting that.


----------



## POCtied

$29999


----------



## manny2376

Barbs_deep said:


> Haha. Chittums are nice for sure, but I would place them a notch above HB as far as prices. They’re way up there


The prices are ALL crazy! Even $30k for a hatchless 16’ tiller skiff is high IMO. 

Even crazier is a 98 or 99 goes for roughly the same coin! I’m glad my 05 Waterman is paid for, at this point and in this market I’m slated to make a tidy profit on it if I sell it.


----------



## manny2376

wooddrow said:


> a notch above in price for sure. just out of curiosity I requested a price on their new 21 islamorada. 115k fully rigged. not bashing them or the price, I just wasn't at all expecting that.


FAK!!! 

My brother just bought a 2400 Pathy with a second station, two power poles, a TM and a Yami 300 at the boat show for $90k brand new a few months ago!!! $115k is C R A Z Y!


----------



## makin moves

HPXFLY said:


> Everything is way up there these days, you cant touch a well built NEW boat for under 30k.
> 
> And Im sure most peoples banks will finance a boat built by some guy named Travis.
> 
> Gonna tell your lender "yea check out his thread on micro skiff, I need 10k for a hull 4k for a trailer and 5k for a motor he builds good stuff i promise" .. add platforms and other BS 30k dont look so bad to hook up to it a hellsbay and go fishing.


Maybe I'm stupid but unless you make a living guiding out of a boat why in the world would you finance a skiff?


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Why is everyone so surprised at skiff prices? Everything is high these days. Go build some boats and try to make a living doing it. Have you seen what people are paying for vehicles?


----------



## kamakuras

$20k and you have my attention.


----------



## tcov

HPXFLY said:


> Everything is way up there these days, you cant touch a well built NEW boat for under 30k.
> 
> And Im sure most peoples banks will finance a boat built by some guy named Travis.
> 
> Gonna tell your lender "yea check out his thread on micro skiff, I need 10k for a hull 4k for a trailer and 5k for a motor he builds good stuff i promise" .. add platforms and other BS 30k dont look so bad to hook up to it a hellsbay and go fishing.


My skiff was built NEW and it was under 30K... it’s no HB or East Cape, but it damn sure gets the job done for me and is a quality build. Obviously people have the right to buy whatever they want and judge for themselves the quality, but to say you can’t get a good boat for under 30K just isn’t true.


----------



## HPXFLY

makin moves said:


> Maybe I'm stupid but unless you make a living guiding out of a boat why in the world would you finance a skiff?


I personally have never financed a skiff but plenty of people do it


----------



## Str8-Six

Enough about skiff prices. Back to Eldora. It looks closer to 15’ to me just from looking at deck. Width seems about 70”. Can anyone confirm that it’s a simplified whip?


----------



## HPXFLY

tcov said:


> My skiff was built NEW and it was under 30K... it’s no HB or East Cape, but it damn sure gets the job done for me and is a quality build. Obviously people have the right to buy whatever they want and judge for themselves the quality, but to say you can’t get a good boat for under 30K just isn’t true.


I mean I have a couple buddies who priced out a new skiff from ankona/salt marsh and if it wasn’t 30k it was 29.5k.

Not saying you can’t buy a skiff for under 30k but it might have the word carolina in front of it.


----------



## HPXFLY

Str8-Six said:


> Enough about skiff prices. Back to Eldora. It looks closer to 15’ to me just from looking at deck. Width seems about 70”. Can anyone confirm that it’s a simplified whip?


From all accounts I’ve heard. Simplified 16 whip


----------



## el9surf

So with a few pictures this forum of boat building experts has determined the specs, the price, the fact that there's no new technology, and that it's nothing more than a stripped down whip. You have also established that Travis builds an equivalent if not better boat, and also the price is already too high and not worth it. Tough crowd, but I guess that's what you can expect when your customer knows everything about everything.


----------



## el9surf

I would hate to be a boat builder in this market...


----------



## makin moves

Key board warriors! We know everything.


----------



## makin moves

el9surf said:


> So with a few pictures this forum of boat building experts has determined the specs, the price, the fact that there's no new technology, and that it's nothing more than a stripped down whip. You have also established that Travis builds an equivalent if not better boat, and also the price is already too high and not worth it. Tough crowd, but I guess that's what you can expect when your customer knows everything about everything.


Or its a slow rainy day at work.


----------



## Rick88

Well there goes the used whip/waterman market lol


----------



## Str8-Six

Rick88 said:


> Well there goes the used whip/waterman market lol


Yep. That’s what I’m excited about. Maybe I can afford a used whip now haha.


----------



## prinjm6

Barbs_deep said:


> For curiosity’s sake, what else are you buying that will compare at this price point ?


I'd go to Glasser for a 16.8 or Wrightwater 16....


----------



## tcov

HPXFLY said:


> I mean I have a couple buddies who priced out a new skiff from ankona/salt marsh and if it wasn’t 30k it was 29.5k.
> 
> Not saying you can’t buy a skiff for under 30k but it might have the word carolina in front of it.


The boat in my picture was well under 30k and it’s not a Carolina Skiff lol. I won’t derail this thread any further..


----------



## Barbs_deep

prinjm6 said:


> I'd go to Glasser for a 16.8 or Wrightwater 16....


Not even in the same ball field, hope you get the boat before putting down any money as well.


----------



## prinjm6

Barbs_deep said:


> Not even in the same ball field, hope you get the boat before putting down any money as well.


I'd ask you to elaborate on your position? Maybe point out how either of the 2 skiffs I mentioned do not compare? First I've heard of him ever doing shady business, seems like many skiff owners take their boats to Glasser and do business with him...


----------



## jsnipes

30k will obviously be a very attractive price point for ppl interested in a higher end skiff (sorry ankona, etc!). The Cayo 173 was < 30k but not even sure if it’s possible to buy one of those now. What’s cost on the drake nomad?

Interested to see more details on this one.


----------



## Rick88

prinjm6 said:


> I'd ask you to elaborate on your position? Maybe point out how either of the 2 skiffs I mentioned do not compare? First I've heard of him ever doing shady business, seems like many skiff owners take their boats to Glasser and do business with him...



Multiple people have had to show up with the local police and retrieve their boats with a lot of cash lost.... you can search the forum and find details this thread probably isn't the place....


----------



## Barbs_deep

prinjm6 said:


> I'd ask you to elaborate on your position? Maybe point out how either of the 2 skiffs I mentioned do not compare? First I've heard of him ever doing shady business, seems like many skiff owners take their boats to Glasser and do business with him...


I did, never again.


----------



## prinjm6

Rick88 said:


> Multiple people have had to show up with the local police and retrieve their boats with a lot of cash lost.... you can search the forum and find details this thread probably isn't the place....


I searched and really dont see any of the negative experiences detailed.

Found this though
https://www.microskiff.com/threads/glasser.56376/


----------



## prinjm6

Barbs_deep said:


> I did, never again.


Way to elaborate lol so to bot further derail this thread feel free to send it in a PM or links to those 1 out of 100 irrational people who had a bad experience. I truly hope this hull has better success than the Neptune and Skate did for HB's sake.


----------



## Half Shell

I'm going to take a risk here and speculate with no basis for it but.... if HB is pricing this at $30K they are making a simple, bare bones skiff that will not have the fit & finish people think of with HB. It may even have splattercoat instead of awlcraft or gel coat finished cockpit. Maybe not a cockpit liner.

If that's the case, while a few here will get excited about it I think it's a mistake from a branding perspective. HB is the brand it is because of it's reputation for quality, fit & finish and building a price point boat is a mistake in growing the brand. In this economy, they should be racing to the top of the premium skiff market and proving they can out Chittum a Chittum not be competing with Salt Marsh.

Bottom line... you cheapen the whole brand when you put out a model not up to the standards of the rest of the brand. Maybe my prediction is wrong, but that's where my wager is at.


----------



## Guest

Half Shell said:


> I'm going to take a risk here and speculate with no basis for it but.... if HB is pricing this at $30K they are making a simple, bare bones skiff that will not have the fit & finish people think of with HB. It may even have splattercoat instead of awlcraft or gel coat finished cockpit. Maybe not a cockpit liner.
> 
> If that's the case, while a few here will get excited about it I think it's a mistake from a branding perspective. HB is the brand it is because of it's reputation for quality, fit & finish and building a price point boat is a mistake in growing the brand. In this economy, they should be racing to the top of the premium skiff market and proving they can out Chittum a Chittum not be competing with Salt Marsh.
> 
> Bottom line... you cheapen the whole brand when you put out a model not up to the standards of the rest of the brand. Maybe my prediction is wrong, but that's where my wager is at.


Pulling off a non liner skiff while keeping the cockpit looking sharp “be it faired and finished or a quality sharp looking webbed interior” take a whole lot more skill and time than spraying gel on a perfect liner mold and building the cockpit that way so it should actually cost more! The early whips had the bare bones/ less refined interiors and that is what built the company.


----------



## Guest

makin moves said:


> Travis will build a comparable if not better one for 10,000





Barbs_deep said:


> Ya my neighbor Rodney builds boats too, he’ll also fix your carburetor and babysit your kids for $40.


The original Whipray was built by @Chris Morejohn in a very similar setup to what Travis and myself with my X-Caliber design are working with! Guys like Travis and myself can afford to build a quality skiff for much less because we don’t have a million dollar plus shop to fund! I can tell you that about any “properly built and designed” one off custom built skiff built the way folks like us do it will be superior to a production skiff and you can buy a whole lotta gas with what you save by supporting the little man!


----------



## Bluwave

Boatbrains said:


> The original Whipray was built by @Chris Morejohn in a very similar setup to what Travis and myself with my X-Caliber design are working with! Guys like Travis and myself can afford to build a quality skiff for much less because we don’t have a million dollar plus shop to fund! I can tell you that about any one off custom built skiff built the way folks like us do it will be superior to a production skiff and you can buy a whole lotta gas with what you save by supporting the little man!


Boatbrains, I have a lot of respect for what you're doing, but to say that your skiff is superior to a Hells Bay when you're still building the first hull is just crazy talk.


----------



## therealdrew

If HB can build a no-frills skiff at a relatively low price point they will open up sales to a massive (almost forgotten) demographic. Most people don't have $40k+ to spend on a new skiff. HB has the customer base and the pedigree, opening up a market to people looking into saltwater fishing will be a giant disruptor in a narrow market. That's only going to be good for the end consumer.


----------



## Guest

Bluwave said:


> Boatbrains, I have a lot of respect for what you're doing, but to say that your skiff is superior to a Hells Bay when you're still building the first hull is just crazy talk.


And I totally understand where you are coming from...
I mean no disrespect and anyone that knows me knows that I lobe Hellsbay’s skiffs, never been on a Chittum but maybe one day I’ll hook up with @Stevie and he can take me for a ride in one of his

The way these one off skiffs are built is superior to “most” production built skiffs. Most of the designs HB are working with are the same or modified versions of what @Chris Morejohn drew up 20 plus years ago! Loan me $2,000,000 so I can build my state of the art shop and Travis and I WILL show this business what’s up! Thing is, guys like Travis and I are hungry and want to grow! My production models will all be bagged and infused just like HB, Eastcape, etc... Again, I am by no means knocking any company out there... @copperhead and his crew are some of the finest folks out there and if I were on that coast I would probably want to work for them! I edited my post to read “properly built and designed” opposed to “about any”, but knowing what I know... I will put my X-Caliber against any of them once complete! Come December when I have number 2 complete I will take anyone on this forum for some bow, platform, and tiller time in Ozello for some reds “n” Trout!


----------



## grovesnatcher

Ive owned 3 older models 99 16 whip least favorite, 03 18 & 02 16 waterman both were great boats. Ive been in the newer models pro and waterman and fished a lot in them, the new hb are excellent quality. So buy what you can afford, and enjoy it. I can guarantee whatever is built by hb will be very nice quality and hold its value.


----------



## Guest

grovesnatcher said:


> Ive owned 3 older models 99 16 whip least favorite, 03 18 & 02 16 waterman both were great boats. Ive been in the newer models pro and waterman and fished a lot in them, the new hb are excellent quality. So buy what you can afford, and enjoy it. I can guarantee whatever is built by hb will be very nice quality and hold its value.


Your last two lines are something I believe we can all agree on for a change! Well said!


----------



## not2shabby

Maybe I missed this in reading through the thread, but I think it's obvious the BT market share has caught the attention of the Hell's Bay crew. If I'm not mistaken, Beavertail has sold HUNDREDS of Mosquitoes in the first couple years of production. Those are crazy numbers. There's no way HB would sit back and not respond. A simple skiff starting at sub-$30k is a pretty obvious response.


----------



## Guest

Also, to touch on the one off “superiority” thing a little more. Look how many “production skiffs” are having delam, and bonding issues. There are a few builders that don’t even glass their bulkheads in! They just use some putty/ bonding adhesive then guys like me end up fixing it if out of warranty! It is these repairs that have taught me what I want my end product to be.


----------



## el9surf

Boatbrains said:


> Also, to touch on the one off “superiority” thing a little more. Look how many “production skiffs” are having delam, and bonding issues. There are a few builders that don’t even glass their bulkheads in! They just use some putty/ bonding adhesive then guys like me end up fixing it if out of warranty! It is these repairs that have taught me what I want my end product to be.



I have seen Maverick with those adhesive held bulk heads you mentioned. That was a no go for me.


----------



## fjmaverick

el9surf said:


> I have seen Maverick with those adhesive held bulk heads you mentioned. That was a no go for me.


Maverick is still 10% chopper gun


----------



## Guest

el9surf said:


> I have seen Maverick with those adhesive held bulk heads you mentioned. That was a no go for me.


I won’t mention names but too many rely on “adhesives” to hold the whole thing together structurally IMHO!

Here are just a few of the things I plan to avoid and have remedies for...

Bulkheads and stringers popping loose, stress cracks “in putty” around bulkheads, stress cracks “in putty” where cap meats the transom, giant blisters/bubbles on surface skin from core/skin delam... yep, if the glass bubbles off the core it’s still a delam!

Oh yeah, cap separating from hull and water intruding into the boat from under the rub rail! 

Everything I mentioned can be found on this very site if you use the search function!


----------



## devrep

Half Shell said:


> I'm going to take a risk here and speculate with no basis for it but.... if HB is pricing this at $30K they are making a simple, bare bones skiff that will not have the fit & finish people think of with HB. It may even have splattercoat instead of awlcraft or gel coat finished cockpit. Maybe not a cockpit liner.
> 
> If that's the case, while a few here will get excited about it I think it's a mistake from a branding perspective. HB is the brand it is because of it's reputation for quality, fit & finish and building a price point boat is a mistake in growing the brand. In this economy, they should be racing to the top of the premium skiff market and proving they can out Chittum a Chittum not be competing with Salt Marsh.
> 
> Bottom line... you cheapen the whole brand when you put out a model not up to the standards of the rest of the brand. Maybe my prediction is wrong, but that's where my wager is at.


HB already did a low budget model years ago with the waterman no liner, no walkable gunnels, unfinished interior. I think it worked ok for them and it didn't ruin the brand. I have one (2001 model) and I have no complaints.


----------



## Guest

devrep said:


> HB already did a low budget model years ago with the waterman no liner, no walkable gunnels, unfinished interior. I think it worked ok for them and it didn't ruin the brand. I have one (2001 model) and I have no complaints.


One of my favs!


----------



## DuckNut

therealdrew said:


> If HB can build a no-frills skiff at a relatively low price point they will open up sales to a massive (almost forgotten) demographic. Most people don't have $40k+ to spend on a new skiff. HB has the customer base and the pedigree, opening up a market to people looking into saltwater fishing will be a giant disruptor in a narrow market. That's only going to be good for the end consumer.


This won't happen because they want to seperate themselves by a pricepoint. That is not who they are or how they got where they are.

That would be like Yeti selling $5 plastic buckets or Bentley producing a $40k car. Just not going to happen. 

Yes it can be done but there are others in that arena and that action would strain the high priced/profit models.


----------



## DuckNut

Bluwave said:


> Boatbrains, I have a lot of respect for what you're doing, but to say that your skiff is superior to a Hells Bay when you're still building the first hull is just crazy talk.


I'm going to interject here. I disagree. Boatbrains is building a boat that will be superior in several ways. 

Now, I know in what ways it will be superior. Since you painted a picture using a wide push broom and superior is such a subjective adjective, why don't you describe why or how you feel it may not be superior?

Just so you know, I do not know BB other than on this forum.


----------



## therealdrew

DuckNut said:


> This won't happen because they want to seperate themselves by a pricepoint. That is not who they are or how they got where they are.
> 
> That would be like Yeti selling $5 plastic buckets or Bentley producing a $40k car. Just not going to happen.
> 
> Yes it can be done but there are others in that arena and that action would strain the high priced/profit models.



That is where HB built their name though, and looks like what this new skiff is. Although it's not a super low price, $30k is infinitely more obtainable than $50+ for a loaded Whip or Pro. You can draw similar comparisons with the Mercedes CLA class, it didn't over saturate the market and allowed for a fair priced entry for people that wanted a luxury car.


----------



## DuckNut

therealdrew said:


> That is where HB built their name though, and looks like what this new skiff is. Although it's not a super low price, $30k is infinitely more obtainable than $50+ for a loaded Whip or Pro. You can draw similar comparisons with the Mercedes CLA class, it didn't over saturate the market and allowed for a fair priced entry for people that wanted a luxury car.


Agree. But do you know the CLA is slated for extinction already? 

People equate price to quality and the quality where the company sits in their industry.


----------



## therealdrew

DuckNut said:


> Agree. But do you know the CLA is slated for extinction already?
> 
> People equate price to quality and the quality where the company sits in their industry.


I didn’t know that, and your statement makes sense. 

I can still see the value of a brand with a reputation like HB venturing into a more entry level skiff. I knew what HB was well before I thought owning one was in the realm of possibility. If this was available when that time came it would have been a no brainer.


----------



## DuckNut

therealdrew said:


> I didn’t know that, and your statement makes sense.
> 
> I can still see the value of a brand with a reputation like HB venturing into a more entry level skiff. I knew what HB was well before I thought owning one was in the realm of possibility. If this was available when that time came it would have been a no brainer.


A lower price point for a great skiff with superb fit would be a Spear, as an example. There are others but I think you are following.


----------



## kylet

jsnipes said:


> 30k will obviously be a very attractive price point for ppl interested in a higher end skiff (sorry ankona, etc!). The Cayo 173 was < 30k but not even sure if it’s possible to buy one of those now. What’s cost on the drake nomad?
> 
> Interested to see more details on this one.


Nomad is 50+
Comes standard with many things that would drive up the cost of a professional to the 60 range though


----------



## Rick88

DuckNut said:


> A lower price point for a great skiff with superb fit would be a Spear, as an example. There are others but I think you are following.


There is nothing superb to the fit or finish of a spear....there are lower budget players such as salt marsh and fly boatworks that far exceed Harry's "standards" it's not even an argument 

Travis builds a solid ass skiff but there is a difference in a home build and something built by a custom builder out of a CNC built mold it is impossible to beat by handshaping. That being said a production boat company like Maverick has no place in this discussion


----------



## Rick88

kylet said:


> Nomad is 50+
> Comes standard with many things that would drive up the cost of a professional to the 60 range though


I think the Drake outlaw not the nomad would be the competitor here I think it is 24k-26k base model


----------



## kylet

Rick88 said:


> I think the Drake outlaw not the nomad would be the competitor here I think it is 24k-26k base model


Think so too


----------



## Barbs_deep

Boatbrains said:


> Also, to touch on the one off “superiority” thing a little more. Look how many “production skiffs” are having delam, and bonding issues. There are a few builders that don’t even glass their bulkheads in! They just use some putty/ bonding adhesive then guys like me end up fixing it if out of warranty! It is these repairs that have taught me what I want my end product to be.


You mean like Beavertail ? Ask me how I know. Comes full circle on my entire point, you get what you pay for.


----------



## MariettaMike

I like the Eldora.

It appears to start with the Best 16’ poling skiff hull design ever made, and improves the core design for draining the cockpit (and maybe entire boat) straight through that pipe in the middle.

The shortened stern deck keeps anything stored under there within reach through the bulkhead opening. The front deck also appears to be a little shorter and may eliminate the need for fly rod tubes, but I haven’t seen a pic to validate that.

Considering the thousands of dry bag and tackle storage options out there now I don’t see the loss of deck storage hatches as that big a deal. Especially when you have to schlep all that stuff in and out of the boat when you travel to fish.

Everything I see in the HB pics appear to show them using the same materials and processes as all the other HB boats, and I think the 196# weight for cap on hull shows that.

What isn’t shown is a transom riser for a long shaft which probably indicates a lower HP rating than the Whipray. I’m guessing 25hp is going to be the base, and 40hp max.

I could see myself putting a park bench seat for two in the middle of that skiff with a rack under it to keep clients bags off the floor, and guiding out of Ozello in one. Might even run a mud motor on it, but that’s my Cajun roots showing.


----------



## dgt2012

This looks to be an ultimate TPS. They have quality product and service so it will have it's market. As for me, I will keep looking for a deal on a used Marquesa!


----------



## Guest

Rick88 said:


> There is nothing superb to the fit or finish of a spear....there are lower budget players such as salt marsh and fly boatworks that far exceed Harry's "standards" it's not even an argument
> 
> Travis builds a solid ass skiff but there is a difference in a home build and something built by a custom builder out of a CNC built mold it is impossible to beat by handshaping. That being said a production boat company like Maverick has no place in this discussion


Not been around many tooling shops have ya Rick? I had to laugh at this a little after reading! EVERY plug and mold set that starts out CNC is still finished out by hand and manual labor brother, nothing compares to the feel, sight, and finish that only a human can achieve when it comes to a finish! Before you try to blast me, do a little research on it please.


----------



## SomaliPirate

Boatbrains said:


> And I totally understand where you are coming from...
> I mean no disrespect and anyone that knows me knows that I lobe Hellsbay’s skiffs, never been on a Chittum but maybe one day I’ll hook up with @Stevie and he can take me for a ride in one of his
> 
> The way these one off skiffs are built is superior to “most” production built skiffs. Most of the designs HB are working with are the same or modified versions of what @Chris Morejohn drew up 20 plus years ago! Loan me $2,000,000 so I can build my state of the art shop and Travis and I WILL show this business what’s up! Thing is, guys like Travis and I are hungry and want to grow! My production models will all be bagged and infused just like HB, Eastcape, etc... Again, I am by no means knocking any company out there... @copperhead and his crew are some of the finest folks out there and if I were on that coast I would probably want to work for them! I edited my post to read “properly built and designed” opposed to “about any”, but knowing what I know... I will put my X-Caliber against any of them once complete! Come December when I have number 2 complete I will take anyone on this forum for some bow, platform, and tiller time in Ozello for some reds “n” Trout!


I'm down, but I'm only coming so I can snake your trout spots.


----------



## Guest

SomaliPirate said:


> I'm down, but I'm only coming so I can snake your trout spots.


Gonna be hard when your wearing a blindfold!


----------



## SomaliPirate

Rick88 said:


> That being said a production boat company like Maverick has no place in this discussion


----------



## Bluwave

DuckNut said:


> I'm going to interject here. I disagree. Boatbrains is building a boat that will be superior in several ways.
> 
> Now, I know in what ways it will be superior. Since you painted a picture using a wide push broom and superior is such a subjective adjective, why don't you describe why or how you feel it may not be superior?
> 
> Just so you know, I do not know BB other than on this forum.


BB said, "The way these one off skiffs are built is superior to production built skiffs."

I believe a one-off skiff isn't superior for a few reason.

1. One-off builds are typically built by people who have built less than one or two boats. I think it takes time and practice to truly learn the art of boat building. For the record, BB is not the typical one-off builder.

2. No vacuum bagging

3. They don't gel coat the hull, and from my experience, gel is by far more durable than paint

4. This is based on anecdotal evidence, but it's a one man show. No one to double check for errors.

5. Fit and finish

6. Proven design and longevity

As I previously stated, I'm not harping on BB but saying a one-off built skiff is superior to a beavertail, east cape, maverick, hells bay, chittum, or drake is a stretch.


----------



## devrep

so do you think the old hull molds done by CM back in the day are long gone and replaced by CNC'd molds? do those things wear out? honest question as I have no idea.


----------



## Pole Position

The boats Boatbrains and Travis are building will usually be significantly lighter than any production boat, and yes, that includes skiffs built w/ carbon innegra or any other high-tech material. Common sense will tell you these lighter boats will float shallower because of the weight difference, w/ the only caveat to this theory being most of the 1st time builders who generally use a helluva lot more epoxy than needed.


----------



## Guest

devrep said:


> so do you think the old hull molds done by CM back in the day are long gone and replaced by CNC'd molds? do those things wear out? honest question as I have no idea.


Yes sir, molds have a shelf life and will at minimum need resurfaced after X number of parts ran. That said, most builders will simply splash a tooling plug “they own the design so it is legal” and do truing and fairing work to that plug, then pull a new mold. I will say that a well built mold will run a hell of a lot of parts!


----------



## jmrodandgun

Rick88 said:


> Travis builds a solid ass skiff but there is a difference in a home build and something built by a custom builder out of a CNC built mold it is impossible to beat by handshaping.


CNC plugs are cut by the machine, and finished by hand.


----------



## DuckNut

@Bluwave Chris has stated on here that his dingy is 15 years old or something like that.

I just saw someone that owns a green hull #1 made by Chris and has the original paperwork and I believe that was a jig built hull. (not 100% certain though)

Some of the things you mention are valid some are not so much. Gel coat is not water proof, but epoxy paint over epoxy primer is. I think you may agree that Intrepid makes a great boat - they use Imron auto paint. Is it more or less durable, debatable.

Vacuum bagging - this is expensive in terms of time and disposable materials. The mix is controlled by operator skills and huge learning curve is required. The idea behind it is that you get a 50/50 mix of glass and resin. If you weigh the glass you are putting down and weigh the resin you will achieve that magic proportion. Bagging uses extra so the suction can hopefully spread it around without any dry spots.

Monocoque hulls are vastly superior to the two piece glued together boat. Much stronger laterally and longitudinally and zero chance of water getting in where you don't want it. Spider cracks are virtually a thing of the past and very prevalent on two piece hulls.

If a guy is building a boat for himself he may cut a few corners when it comes to the finished product. When a guy is trying to start a business he can not afford not to have an absolutely perfect boat. If it is less than perfect he will not be in business very long. A hobby builder might fall somewhere in between. Certainly there might be trade offs if you get hull #1 or 3 because they may be rolling on the paint vs a full respirator spray suit that is standard in the production facility.

I get what you are saying and understand you are not singling BB out but you need to understand what can make a boat superior to another. Once again the superior is open for interpretation and many if not most of the time this holds true. But there are guys out there that are building superior boats to production models. If I have a choice between a mono hull and a two piece there is never a time I would choose the two piece. The technique used to build a mono hull is tremendous and simply takes too long for 99% of the production builds.

If I am in the market for a skiff I would certainly check out builders like @Boatbrains and @Travis Smith because I know these guys are far more passionate about skiff building than an employee working for a paycheck at some production facility. Not to mention I am a small business owner and support the small business owner every chance I get.


----------



## OakHill63

Hilarious!
Hells Bay is out of reach for most people (myself included). I recently was in the market for a new boat. Was going to clean my Sundance Skiff up, and sell it, use the money to help pay for a Hells Bay, Eastcape, .....ect. I took my Sundance to Williston (Marine Metals), and had them refurbish it. I wanted to keep my refurbish cost to below $5k, and they did. While they were doing the refurbish work, I went to work scouring the net for the new boat. The first place I clicked on was Hells Bay. Once I saw the dollar amount they were asking for a new boat, I looked out the window at my new truck and thought, that little skiff cost more than my new full size pickup. I thought, what makes it so special...did more reading, more research, and scouring every site in existence for shallow draft skiffs. The prices varied, depending on the manufacturer, but Hells Bay was the at the top of the heap for expensive. Maybe they are worth it....maybe the materials and workmanship are worth that cost, who am I to say, never been in a position to own that quality of a product.
Then, once the sticker shock wore off, and the comparisons were done, I called Marine Metals and asked them to put an Atlas Jackplate, a new rear deck (taking out the molded heavy deck and replacing it with a simple light weight deck), and let me know the final cost. It was less than $5k. Needless to say, I have a new boat, the title says 1996, but the looks are brand new, and it floats in 8 inches of water with 2 people, a cooler, and full tank of gas. Someday I might own a Porche, but right now, my new pickup and “new” boat make for some killer weekends. My hats off to anyone that owns a Hells Bay....you’re a lucky and blessed individual.


----------



## jsnipes

DuckNut said:


> A lower price point for a great skiff with superb fit would be a Spear, as an example. There are others but I think you are following.


the spear's are fishy boats but have you actually been on one? the fit and finish is the worst i've seen on any skiff (a mitzi is much better even on that front).


----------



## TidalFly

I've got a Spear LTG and you couldn't give me a Mitzi...maybe Harry just did a lot better job on mine than the rest of them?


----------



## DuckNut

jsnipes said:


> the spear's are fishy boats but have you actually been on one? the fit and finish is the worst i've seen on any skiff (a mitzi is much better even on that front).


I think you failed to recognize the assimile I was aiming for.


----------



## makin moves

SomaliPirate said:


> I'm down, but I'm only coming so I can snake your trout spots.


When you pull the blind fold off you will recognize the area because he took you to the catfish holes your already familiar with.


----------



## Guest

makin moves said:


> When you pull the blind fold off you will recognize the area because he took you to the catfish holes your already familiar with.


Only after running figure eights around the islands and watchin him blow chunks from the ride lol!


----------



## SomaliPirate

All of my Ozello catfish holes are lost since I accidentally reset my chartplotter to factory settings.


----------



## Bluwave

DuckNut said:


> @Bluwave Chris has stated on here that his dingy is 15 years old or something like that.
> 
> I just saw someone that owns a green hull #1 made by Chris and has the original paperwork and I believe that was a jig built hull. (not 100% certain though)
> 
> Some of the things you mention are valid some are not so much. Gel coat is not water proof, but epoxy paint over epoxy primer is. I think you may agree that Intrepid makes a great boat - they use Imron auto paint. Is it more or less durable, debatable.
> 
> Vacuum bagging - this is expensive in terms of time and disposable materials. The mix is controlled by operator skills and huge learning curve is required. The idea behind it is that you get a 50/50 mix of glass and resin. If you weigh the glass you are putting down and weigh the resin you will achieve that magic proportion. Bagging uses extra so the suction can hopefully spread it around without any dry spots.
> 
> Monocoque hulls are vastly superior to the two piece glued together boat. Much stronger laterally and longitudinally and zero chance of water getting in where you don't want it. Spider cracks are virtually a thing of the past and very prevalent on two piece hulls.
> 
> If a guy is building a boat for himself he may cut a few corners when it comes to the finished product. When a guy is trying to start a business he can not afford not to have an absolutely perfect boat. If it is less than perfect he will not be in business very long. A hobby builder might fall somewhere in between. Certainly there might be trade offs if you get hull #1 or 3 because they may be rolling on the paint vs a full respirator spray suit that is standard in the production facility.
> 
> I get what you are saying and understand you are not singling BB out but you need to understand what can make a boat superior to another. Once again the superior is open for interpretation and many if not most of the time this holds true. But there are guys out there that are building superior boats to production models. If I have a choice between a mono hull and a two piece there is never a time I would choose the two piece. The technique used to build a mono hull is tremendous and simply takes too long for 99% of the production builds.
> 
> If I am in the market for a skiff I would certainly check out builders like @Boatbrains and @Travis Smith because I know these guys are far more passionate about skiff building than an employee working for a paycheck at some production facility. Not to mention I am a small business owner and support the small business owner every chance I get.


Come on man, you can't compare Chris Morejohn to a DIY one-off builder.

In regards to this statement, "you need to understand what can make a boat superior to another". Ha, I know a thing or two junior.

I'll agree to disagree for the sake of going down a meaningless rabbit hole.


----------



## texasag07

TidalFly said:


> I've got a Spear LTG and you couldn't give me a Mitzi...maybe Harry just did a lot better job on mine than the rest of them?


You must have got a good one, I have been on three and seen two or three others. They are great utlitarian skiffs and work really well, but if you are talking fit and finish they are prolly the worst of the current skiffs out there even my old early ankona that was not the best fit and finish was equal or a bit better. The stuff ankona is turning out these days look much above that.

Love his boats but they cannot be compared in fit and finish to the rest.

Ok back to your regularly scheduled hells bay pricing complaining fest.


----------



## Rick88

Boatbrains said:


> Not been around many tooling shops have ya Rick? I had to laugh at this a little after reading! EVERY plug and mold set that starts out CNC is still finished out by hand and manual labor brother, nothing compares to the feel, sight, and finish that only a human can achieve when it comes to a finish! Before you try to blast me, do a little research on it please.


Laying strips of core over a strong back that someone else designed is far different thank doing finish work to a cnc plug and building a mold. I like what you and Travis do and I respect it, but if you honestly believe that a one off skiff built in a shed is going to compare apples to apples with a top tier custom builder then I'm sorry but you are delusional. That being said I think for the price difference between the two the quality of finnishes/ name brand vs home made is up to the person who is buying a boat and there is a big pool of both types of buyer. 

Back to the mosquito lagoon edition 2.0....


----------



## jmrodandgun

Damn Rick. You mad?


----------



## Rick88

no,just stating facts


----------



## Guest

Rick88 said:


> Laying strips of core over a strong back that someone else designed is far different thank doing finish work to a cnc plug and building a mold. I like what you and Travis do and I respect it, but if you honestly believe that a one off skiff built in a shed is going to compare apples to apples with a top tier custom builder then I'm sorry but you are delusional. That being said I think for the price difference between the two the quality of finnishes/ name brand vs home made is up to the person who is buying a boat and there is a big pool of both types of buyer.
> 
> Back to the mosquito lagoon edition 2.0....


Well come on over here, no wait... I’ll come to you come December and show ya what’s up! And for the record, my skiff is all my design! Yeah, Chris helped me get some things straight... but it’s all mine brother and I am sure @Chris Morejohn will tell you the same! Delusional, no! Fact is that all plugs are hand finished prior to mold making and then the mold is still polished to a bright finish by none other than human hands and eyes! Don’t doubt me because you got a little money to buy a top tier skiff BOY! I know DAMN well what I am capable of, and it’s a whole lot more than you are capable of imagining in you wildest dreams! I build things because I can! You buy things because you can & I am fine with that too. But don’t ever doubt me, you don’t know me, James!


----------



## Guest

And for the record, my delusional self designed and am almost finished building a skiff that runs the same speed “with half the hp”, drafts pretty shallow @5”, poles as fair and true, and is as quiet if not quieter than several top tier production skiffs... and yes as much as I hate to pop your little cherry on this. Hell’s bay is a production skiff! Great skiffs indeed but still a production skiff!


----------



## Rick88

Dang don't get mad BB..I was being nice.
And for the record I was referring to the Conchfish 16 builds y'all were doing didn't realize you were building something else I guess that go fund me worked out for ya there congrats!


----------



## devrep

James, none of us have seen your finished product yet so I can see where they are coming from. I am confident you will set them straight.


----------



## Guest

Ha, yeah it did lol! I found out who my friends are! But you gotta keep something in mind and that is that there are many very talented people building those Conchfishes that have the guidance of @Chris Morejohn to help them out. Chris has built many many high quality one offs in a carport brother. I mean some of these guys are finish carpenters/cabinet makers for cryin out loud!


----------



## devrep

on a lighter note I WENT FISHING TODAY! after days of boomers and rain it was quite the thrill.


----------



## Guest

devrep said:


> James, none of us have seen your finished product yet so I can see where they are coming from. I am confident you will set them straight.


I can respect that dev, let’s get together towards the end of the month when she is complete!


----------



## devrep

lookin forward to it!


----------



## Str8-Six




----------



## Guest

Str8-Six said:


> View attachment 78410


Sorry fellas, thick skin I have but every now and then somebody still gets under it. @Rick88, even though ya made that GFM comment... we’re cool! And I apologize for my comment as well, James


----------



## Karlee

For am minute there I wasn’t sure if I logged onto THT by mistake


----------



## Guest

Karlee said:


> For am minute there I wasn’t sure if I logged onto THT by mistake


Now that’s some funny chit!


----------



## el9surf

Funny how HB comes out with an entry level skiff and 12 pages later this thread is a damn train wreck in slow motion. Comparing everyone elses skiff to this boat is pointless at the moment considering they have only released a handful of photos. Y'all need to get a beer or 6 and chill out.


----------



## TidalFly

Agree, per usual with any HB thread this thing has gone off the rails. That said, to call any of the large manufacturers mentioned in this thread “custom builders” is a fallacy. They are all production skiff companies. They all pop hulls/decks/components from molds and assemble them per the exact same schedule each time. Sure, you can choose how to lay out your skiff per their menu of options. And sure, they will install any kind of add on or accessory you desire. However, your HB Pro, Maverick HPX, BT Mosquito, etc etc etc are all the exact same boat as somebody else with the same model. There is nothing about them that is “custom built.”


----------



## Rick88

I think the custom aspect that I was referring to is like a HB vs Maverick thing for example Maverick is gonna make X number of boats annually regardless of orders from individuals vs a company like HB, chittum or ECS that is only going to build something when it is ordered and each boat customized to that buyers request ... not custom as a cold molded sportfish that is truly a 1 of 1


----------



## TidalFly

That’s a fair point, I think these companies like the throw the whole “custom built skiff” term around too much when they’re really just custom accessorized.


----------



## Rick88

Absolutely


----------



## Barbs_deep

prinjm6 said:


> Way to elaborate lol so to bot further derail this thread feel free to send it in a PM or links to those 1 out of 100 irrational people who had a bad experience. I truly hope this hull has better success than the Neptune and Skate did for HB's sake.


Ok, i’ll Bite. How about when you agree on work to be done and agree on the price. You drop the boat off at the agreed upon time. Flash forward 5 weeks later, 3 weeks past the time it was agreed upon to be done. When you go to pick it up, only half of the work is done and he wants MORE money than what was originally agreed upon for ALL of the work. Nah, I’m good man. There’s an idiot born every minute but that ain’t me.


----------



## 17376

HPXFLY said:


> Everything is way up there these days, you cant touch a well built NEW boat for under 30k.
> 
> And Im sure most peoples banks will finance a boat built by some guy named Travis.
> 
> Gonna tell your lender "yea check out his thread on micro skiff, I need 10k for a hull 4k for a trailer and 5k for a motor he builds good stuff i promise" .. add platforms and other BS 30k dont look so bad to hook up to it a hellsbay and go fishing.



I said to myself I wasn’t going to bring myself to lower standards and comment on petty stuff.

However with that being said.

With your prices, I’m not sure how you get 30k. Let’s see here 10+4+5+3k(3k is the misc. stuff that you add to the skiff when you buy one. The same stuff that doesn’t come with a HB) and 3 k is way overpriced but we will use it.

So let me get my calculator out bc I’m not smart enough to add. Damn I think I’m at 22k. Of which I guess you wouldn’t have taxes on most of that.

So let me check my calculations.. 10k for hull, trailer 1500, engine 2900(this is bc we can run a 25hp and get 31-33 mph out of it) plenty of speed and great gas mileage. So we are below 15k there. Our bulls are lighter and stronger. I can promise you that. We prefer selling to people who have an understanding of what it takes to build a skiff and what goes in it.

Let me take some left 18yo just out of high school to lay up glass and charge 30k for a skiff.. who by the way just left a party and came in straight to work late. The person who plans on quitting his job later in the day.. I’m sure that’s absolutely fine quality craftsmanship right there.

But I will be done with a skiff in a month or so of @Backcountry 16 . Feel free to take a look of the craftsmanship of it and if he doesn’t mind he may take you on a ride!!

And I will say this. I do not care if I sell another boat in my lifetime. I don’t need to sell boats. I am not trying to make a career out of it. I do it absolutely for the fun of it. I enjoy it.

Have a blessed day!


----------



## Guest

Dang, looks like it was Travis’ turn to roll outta bed late on the wrong side today! LMAO


----------



## prinjm6

Barbs_deep said:


> Ok, i’ll Bite. How about when you agree on work to be done and agree on the price. You drop the boat off at the agreed upon time. Flash forward 5 weeks later, 3 weeks past the time it was agreed upon to be done. When you go to pick it up, only half of the work is done and he wants MORE money than what was originally agreed upon for ALL of the work. Nah, I’m good man. There’s an idiot born every minute but that ain’t me.



Your experience doesnt mean that he wont deliver a comparable skiff, there are members of this forum who have received their boats. You made a snarky comment insinuating Glasser would take money and run yet havent provide anything to back your claim. Your opinion is also extremely biased based on your experience with him, I sure would like to hear Glassers side as I have no doubt you are the best customer.


----------



## Rick88

It's pretty unanimous that Jonathan glasser is a horrible person to deal with the bad reviews far outweigh the good on this forum...not sure how you shilling for him is even relevant to this topic/ thread. Please go sit down or start complaining about hells bay like the rest of us.


----------



## Half Shell

I envy the guys with the courage and skills to start building skiffs and make a go at it.  Quite frankly, there is not much I would rather do but with wife, kid, mortgage, etc I'm not taking the risk of quiting my job to do it.... so the guys that do have my repsect for thier willingness to take that on.

That being said, the problem I have with buying one is I don't know you. I don't know your skills, whether or not you will be around in 5-15 years, and since you don't have a reputation yet outside a small circle I sure don't count on your resale value. I would buy a ECC today in a heartbeat but I would not have when they were building canoes in the garage because I'm not risking my money. That's just the nature of the business.

That is why what I will call semi-custom builders like HB, ECC, Egret, etc that modify a model to suit your desires are so attractive. You get a quality built boat suited to your liking and you know what you can get out of it 2-5-10 years down the road.

Anyway, best of luck to the true, low-volume, custom builders. Back on topic, I still think if the Eldora is what I think it will be it's a mistake for HB from a long-term strategy perspective.


----------



## Guest

Half Shell said:


> I envy the guys with the courage and skills to start building skiffs and make a go at it. Quite frankly, there is not much I would rather do but with wife, kid, mortgage, etc I'm not taking the risk of quiting my job to do it.... so the guys that do have my repsect for thier willingness to take that on.
> 
> That being said, the problem I have with buying one is I don't know you. I don't know your skills, whether or not you will be around in 5-15 years, and since you don't have a reputation yet outside a small circle I sure don't count on your resale value. I would buy a ECC today in a heartbeat but I would not have when they were building canoes in the garage because I'm not risking my money. That's just the nature of the business.
> 
> That is why what I will call semi-custom builders like HB, ECC, Egret, etc that modify a model to suit your desires are so attractive. You get a quality built boat suited to your liking and you know what you can get out of it 2-5-10 years down the road.
> 
> Anyway, best of luck to the true, low-volume, custom builders. Back on topic, I still think if the Eldora is what I think it will be it's a mistake for HB from a long-term strategy perspective.


I am making no assumptions here and I certainly hope all these companies are doing great, but the fact is... unless you are a player in one of these companies we have absolutely no idea what’s happening behind the scenes financially! Sure, reputations might be good, sales might be good, etc... how much debt is there we don’t know about, are bills getting paid, etc... It’s always a gamble no matter your choice. I say buy what you like though, but don’t think that the resale will stay up forever on any boat! It might be good for 10-15-20 years even but not forever my friends. Boats are a luxury and when the economy plummets so does everything else.


----------



## 17376

I hope and pray that all of these companies will be around in 20 years, but you never know if they will be or not. It’s the nature of the beast. 

With that being said, when the economy tanks, when and not if, would you rather be making a payment on that 40k+ boat Or have a boat that does the same exact thing that is probably paid off... 

The HB, ECC, Chitum is all a name. At the end of the day it comes down to one person thinking they are better than their neighbor. I have this and you don’t.

@Boatbrains could call ECC right now and build his x cal for them the same way he is doing it now. Throw a 30k price on it and tell no one that he is doing a hand lay up on it. People would be all over it.


----------



## Guest

Thanks Travis!


----------



## Half Shell

Travis Smith said:


> The HB, ECC, Chitum is all a name. At the end of the day it comes down to one person thinking they are better than their neighbor. I have this and you don’t.


I don't see it that way. It's a reputation which implies known performance, known resale value, and known customer service.

The words you chose seem to imply to me a certain snob appeal when deciding on the maker of a skiff. That may be true here but the world is much larger than microskiff. I know my group of friends don't know a Chitum from a Mako. I guarentee none are impressed by any 18' skiff no matter the name on it.


----------



## 17376

How is the “known customer service” if they are out of business? 

Snob appeal? Not sure I understand that.. I like all of the manufacturers stated and to be honest I haven’t bad mouth any company on here. 

And I agree with about resale. Bc people are looking for the name. People have more money than sense


----------



## manny2376

Half Shell said:


> I envy the guys with the courage and skills to start building skiffs and make a go at it. Quite frankly, there is not much I would rather do but with wife, kid, mortgage, etc I'm not taking the risk of quiting my job to do it.... so the guys that do have my repsect for thier willingness to take that on.
> 
> That being said, the problem I have with buying one is I don't know you. I don't know your skills, whether or not you will be around in 5-15 years, and since you don't have a reputation yet outside a small circle I sure don't count on your resale value. I would buy a ECC today in a heartbeat but I would not have when they were building canoes in the garage because I'm not risking my money. That's just the nature of the business.
> 
> That is why what I will call semi-custom builders like HB, ECC, Egret, etc that modify a model to suit your desires are so attractive. You get a quality built boat suited to your liking and you know what you can get out of it 2-5-10 years down the road.
> 
> Anyway, best of luck to the true, low-volume, custom builders. Back on topic, I still think if the Eldora is what I think it will be it's a mistake for HB from a long-term strategy perspective.



Curious as to why you think it’s a mistake? The price point?


----------



## Half Shell

Travis,

You said "one person thinking they are better than thier neighbor. I have this and you don't". I interpereted that as snob appeal.

"Known cusomer service" is not worth anything if they are out of business.. but who is more likely to be out of business during the next recession, HB or a one off builder? Hell, Kevin Barker just filed bankruptcy in this economy.

I work with a bunch of naval architects, Chief Engineers, and 3,000gt Masters at one of the largest maritme companies in the world. Maybe I'm one of those guys with more money than sense but if I lost my job I want a skiff I can sell in 2 weeks for as close as I paid to it as possible. Who might that be? It's certainly not X-brand built in someone's garage but if it's really inexpensive to begin with then it could make sense.


----------



## Half Shell

manny2376 said:


> Curious as to why you think it’s a mistake? The price point?


See post #169.

HB is a brand based upon percieved quality and luxury. Putting a product out there that compromises that hurts the overall brand. (This is based upon the prediction of a lesser quality ; i.e. fit & finish boat, which we don't know yet to be the case)

How many premium consumer goods can you name that later put out a "value" line with the same brand name and it did not tarnish the overall brand?

I'm sure Chris Peterson is no dummy, and I'm sure this was not an impulse. Just my opinion based upon what we know so far. My aunts' neighbor's cousin's ex-boyfreind says Flip always wants to do away with anything not needed to make it as simple, light, and practical as possible so maybe it's an intent to build a better fishing machine and thus HB will prove me wrong.


----------



## Backcountry 16

I had Travis's build me a boat so I would have 20k extra to fish on in my retirement. With a 25 hp that should be quite a few trips.


----------



## prinjm6

Rick88 said:


> It's pretty unanimous that Jonathan glasser is a horrible person to deal with the bad reviews far outweigh the good on this forum...not sure how you shilling for him is even relevant to this topic/ thread. Please go sit down or start complaining about hells bay like the rest of us.


Lol I used the search forum dipshit and after 3 pages of not finding anything negative figured since you made the claim you can provide the backup for it. 

As far as sitting down goes, I'm always sitting while on this forum, so?


----------



## Barbs_deep

prinjm6 said:


> Your experience doesnt mean that he wont deliver a comparable skiff, there are members of this forum who have received their boats. You made a snarky comment insinuating Glasser would take money and run yet havent provide anything to back your claim. Your opinion is also extremely biased based on your experience with him, I sure would like to hear Glassers side as I have no doubt you are the best customer.


Just sit this one out dude.


----------



## prinjm6

Barbs_deep said:


> Just sit this one out dude.


Lol nah I'm good, I'm not going anywhere. Start backing your claims up with facts! Like I said, you are the first negative story on Glasser I've heard and I'm sure there is more to it than you're telling. Also I'm sure Jon is not perfect, he makes mistakes like any man. If Glasser was THAT bad why do folks still drop off their boats to him? Pretty sure Jon has owned his one business longer than Tom Gordon has owned the last 3 lol.


----------



## manny2376

Half Shell said:


> How many premium consumer goods can you name that later put out a "value" line with the same brand name and it did not tarnish the overall brand?


$30k for a 16’ Skiff with no hatches, presumably a portable tank, little to electronics, and a 30hp tiller isn’t exactly what I would label as “value”. I equate value with with Ankona or skimmer skiff. 

I think it’s more of a response to old 99-01 HB whips/watermen going for $25k-$30k once refurbished. There is obviously a market there if 20+ year old skiffs are commanding that kinda cash! I’m thinking they just want to lead that market segment. 

Morejon has laid out the materials and cost in his blog for a skiff this size and it isn’t $30k! Seems like it might be a solid money maker for HB IMO. Look how well Cayo’s 17 did before they went up in price and Cayo started making cats. Not to mention the HB resale value and branding. This is great way for them to get customers in the door and in the “family” so to speak, so they can move up to a larger skiff when the time is right. 

I think this skiff will sell pretty well all things considered.


----------



## Half Shell

manny2376 said:


> Look how well Cayo’s 17 did before they went up in price and Cayo started making cats. Not to mention the HB resale value and branding. This is great way for them to get customers in the door and in the “family” so to speak, so they can move up to a larger skiff when the time is right.
> 
> I think this skiff will sell pretty well all things considered.


Manny,

Units sold does not always equate to more profit, the margins play a role. I would think Cayo has now found the equilbrium point on the 17.

No doubt this new cheap HB will sell like pizza roles at a weed convention though. My pessimism is related to the long-term effect on the overall brand. 

I have the uptmost respect for what the Peterson's have done in purchasing a bankrupt company and restoring the brand. Without more than we know about it, I and everyone else are really hanging it out there with predictions.


----------



## jsnipes

If we can get back to bitching, it would have been more fun if HB built a new skiff to go head to head w Chittum.


----------



## SC on the FLY

are they building the B2 again?


----------



## Godzuki86

Backcountry 16 said:


> I had Travis's build me a boat so I would have 20k extra to fish on in my retirement. With a 25 hp that should be quite a few trips.


Don't lie @Backcountry 16 , you're a boat whore. You have paid off boats already, I think you are just bored of the gladesman already


----------



## Barbs_deep

prinjm6 said:


> Lol nah I'm good, I'm not going anywhere. Start backing your claims up with facts! Like I said, you are the first negative story on Glasser I've heard and I'm sure there is more to it than you're telling. Also I'm sure Jon is not perfect, he makes mistakes like any man. If Glasser was THAT bad why do folks still drop off their boats to him? Pretty sure Jon has owned his one business longer than Tom Gordon has owned the last 3 lol.


No, there really isn’t more the story. No, I am not the first one that shares this sentiment about his business practices. It’s pretty simple, he tried playing a shell game with me and I paid him for what he did and I took it to Tom. Believe whatever you want, I really don’t give a rat’s azz. I just know that I’ll never take a skiff back there.


----------



## jonny

Boatbrains said:


> Also, to touch on the one off “superiority” thing a little more. Look how many “production skiffs” are having delam, and bonding issues. There are a few builders that don’t even glass their bulkheads in! They just use some putty/ bonding adhesive then guys like me end up fixing it if out of warranty! It is these repairs that have taught me what I want my end product to be.


You mean like HB? Their bulkheads are just puttied to the deck.


----------



## jmrodandgun

Half Shell said:


> Units sold does not always equate to more profit, the margins play a role.


Great point. It's been explained to me that if all things are equal, a 14ft skiff and an 18ft skiff aren't very far off in labor hours.


----------



## jonny

Rick88 said:


> There is nothing superb to the fit or finish of a spear....there are lower budget players such as salt marsh and fly boatworks that far exceed Harry's "standards" it's not even an argument
> 
> Travis builds a solid ass skiff but there is a difference in a home build and something built by a custom builder out of a CNC built mold it is impossible to beat by handshaping. That being said a production boat company like Maverick has no place in this discussion


Almost every model HB has that's worth a shiat. Was not built with a CNC. And when you build a CNC plug. Then hack on it for years trying to achieve perfection. It's not exactly as on point as the virgin 5 axis router plug. Chittum cut huge chunks out of the front entry. In order to get it the way they wanted it. Which proves deep pockets, full time nautical engineer, long algarythems and a 5 axis router. Still can't beat the eye,hand and a keen mind. Also some builders CNC cut a foam mold. Then lay layers of CSM inside of it. By the time you lay it, fair it, sand it and spray gel. You could easily be off 1/8-1/4" or more. But I have yet to see a alignment machine for a boat. Since they are in a environment of constant movement and instability.


----------



## Fishshoot

jsnipes said:


> If we can get back to bitching, it would have been more fun if HB built a new skiff to go head to head w Chittum.


I don’t know if they can.....


----------



## Rick88

They have all been redone at this point.. I have heard of quite a few of the new professionals yawing horribly on plane w the f70


----------



## jonny

prinjm6 said:


> You must be Charlie lol, if Billy and others who I know give a 5 star and you and one other gave a 1 star I'd say you were the 1/100 pain in the ass customers who were irrational.
> View attachment 78494
> 
> 
> View attachment 78490
> View attachment 78492


There is some history and truth to what he is saying. I haven't heard any negatives as of late. But all those plugs he had routed cost big money. Most of the issues were when he was in the start up phase. A schell game was a good description. As a side. Has anyone actually bought a 16.8? I have yet to see one. Really didn't get the built in set back. Not something I am looking for in a skinny water skiff. But other than that it looked pretty good. Can't imagine the leverage that motor would have with a jackplate. It would be 8" of setback. Can't be good for draft. Speed and running skinny yes. Draft-no. Poling solo would be interesting

But back to the Eldora. It looks to have more freeboard than the other Whipray based models. The step up to the decks. Makes my knees hurt looking at em.


----------



## Tx_Whipray




----------



## firecat1981

I'm just jumpin in here, not gonna comment on a lot that has been said already.

However, has anyone considered this might be a move because of market saturation? Inshore fishing, especially in Florida, took a major hit the last few years between the blooms/pollution and storms. We here think it's doing great most days because the forum is active, but I know more and more guys switching to near/offshore because of the recent problems. I know some guy is about to post up "but the glades are on fire!", well that only matters to a select few guys who actually fish it.

My point is there actual sales may be slowing between less new customers and existing customers who don't see a point in upgrading to a product that does the same thing.

Look at what happened to the IPhone. Slowing sales keep forcing them to launch a value aimed product along with the flagship. And sales still keep slowing, because more, arguably equal or better, options keep coming to the market at similar or lower price points.

I'm typing this in a hurry, so hope it makes sense.


----------



## Barbs_deep

Rick88 said:


> They have all been redone at this point.. I have heard of quite a few of the new professionals yawing horribly on plane w the f70


Does your pro do that too ??


----------



## Half Shell

Good quesion Firecat,

I grew up offshore fishing the NC outer banks and while I love flats fishing, those water quality issues you mentioned and the fact I have to commute 1.5-2 hours to fish Flamingo or 10K islands has led me to question if I want to change my fishing to offshore as well. To tell the truth, the only thing stopping me is that I live in HOA hell and I refuse to pay $500-800 a month in south FL for covered boat storge near the water for a 27' CC. I don't mind paying for the boat and operating it, I'm not throwing away $6K-10K a year just to store it. If I lived somewhere else, I may have made the move already.


----------



## FLmatt

jsnipes said:


> the spear's are fishy boats but have you actually been on one? the fit and finish is the worst i've seen on any skiff (a mitzi is much better even on that front).


Don’t mean to interrupt this thread as it appears it is going well. But, I did want to jump in here. I’ve had a Spear Glades X for a year now and have fished or been in many models of most of the well known skiff manufacturers. What I can say is that the fit and finish of my Spear is completely fine (to me). I get it, its not a Hells Bay, but at the end of each trip, my skiff is usually caked in redfish slime, marsh mud, sunscreen smear, and spilled coffee. At that point, who cares about the fit and finish. As long as there is no structural concerns and the boat isn’t spending potential fishing days in the shop. And if you think I’d trade mine in for a Mitzi, I don’t know what to tell you. Anyway, end of my rant, back to the lively Hells Bay vs. Homebuilt debate.


----------



## Backcountry 16

FLmatt said:


> View attachment 78600
> 
> Don’t mean to interrupt this thread as it appears it is going well. But, I did want to jump in here. I’ve had a Spear Glades X for a year now and have fished or been in many models of most of the well known skiff manufacturers. What I can say is that the fit and finish of my Spear is completely fine (to me). I get it, its not a Hells Bay, but at the end of each trip, my skiff is usually caked in redfish slime, marsh mud, sunscreen smear, and spilled coffee. At that point, who cares about the fit and finish. As long as there is no structural concerns and the boat isn’t spending potential fishing days in the shop. And if you think I’d trade mine in for a Mitzi, I don’t know what to tell you. Anyway, end of my rant, back to the lively Hells Bay vs. Homebuilt debate.


Harry's concept of a skiff is spot on but if you buy one you may want to get a few sheets of seadek to cover the (many) imperfections in his skiffs speaking first hand knowledge before someone gets all crazy with your replies. 8 months of owning his skiff is where I am coming from 3 air bubbles on the deck 1 chip in the cockpit 3 cracks on the deck and a crack near the rear bulkhead. Luckily I recovered all my money back


----------



## FLmatt

Backcountry 16 said:


> Harry's concept of a skiff is spot on but if you buy one you may want to get a few sheets of seadek to cover the (many) imperfections in his skiffs speaking first hand knowledge before someone gets all crazy with your replies. 8 months of owning his skiff is where I am coming from 3 air bubbles on the deck 1 chip in the cockpit 3 cracks on the deck and a crack near the rear bulkhead. Luckily I recovered all my money back


Fair enough, I won’t dispute you as I know you’ve had first hand experience. I believe my skiff is four and a half years old now and I’ve not had any of those issues you described (fortunately). Is there some normal wear and tear? Of course. I fish multiple times a week and have towed her all over the state from Flamingo to Fernandina. It comes with the territory.


----------



## Backcountry 16

FLmatt said:


> Fair enough, I won’t dispute you as I know you’ve had first hand experience. I believe my skiff is four and a half years old now and I’ve not had any of those issues you described (fortunately). Is there some normal wear and tear? Of course. I fish multiple times a week and have towed her all over the state from Flamingo to Fernandina. It comes with the territory.


I loved the skiff fishing wise just too many little issues all cosmetic for me in a short period of time and saw an opportunity to recover my money. It really sucked because it's a seaworthy fishy boat glad you haven't had any issues with yours. I still miss it just not sure what it would have looked like in 10 years.


----------



## TidalFly

Here’s why I think the Eldora will sell (granted I know the same amount about it as everybody else on here right now). There is a large group of people out there that dream of owning a HB. They are attracted to the history, mystique, and marketing of the company. They’re not able to afford a new 55-60k model in any way, the bank won’t loan them 30k for a 15 year old model, but the bank WILL loan them 30k for a brand new model. This way they can actually afford to own a boat from “the company that started it all.”


----------



## TidalFly

For anybody reading the snippets on Spear boats in this forum I can assure you not all of them are shitty, I’ve got one that’s very nice. Bought it from @HBFanatic on here. Doesn’t look like it was built in a factory going station to station, but that’s because it wasn’t. It also cost me $21,000 and I’ve got four people in line to buy it if I ever decided to sell it. Spear rant over, back to business.


----------



## Backcountry 16

TidalFly said:


> For anybody reading the snippets on Spear boats in this forum I can assure you not all of them are shitty, I’ve got one that’s very nice. Bought it from @HBFanatic on here. Doesn’t look like it was built in a factory going station to station, but that’s because it wasn’t. It also cost me $21,000 and I’ve got four people in line to buy it if I ever decided to sell it. Spear rant over, back to business.


Glad you got a good one I'm just letting people know to go over the boat really well upon delivery I'm not saying it's all his fault because he did have an employee also whenever I picked up mine 
I did also have to ask him to screw one of the trim tabs screws in all the way as it was only in about halfway. Just not sure why he wouldn't take an extra 15 minutes before delivery to make sure everything is all the way done after all his name is on the side of the skiff .


----------



## Gatorgrizz27

I’ve never understood why the Glades Skiffs cost roughly $40k when there’s really nothing to them. I suppose they can’t really drop prices by $10k now without pissing a bunch of people off though.


----------



## el9surf

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> I’ve never understood why the Glades Skiffs cost roughly $40k when there’s really nothing to them. I suppose they can’t really drop prices by $10k now without pissing a bunch of people off though.


From what I understand there is still similar labor hours to build a glades skiff compared to their other models.


----------



## firecat1981

I would agree with that statement to a point. From building several boats now I can see that if 2 boats are set up similarly, say a 17 and 19ft, the materials and man hours are minimally different.


----------



## Gatorgrizz27

el9surf said:


> From what I understand there is still similar labor hours to build a glades skiff compared to their other models.


Yeah, I get that there wouldn’t be a big difference in the hull costs, I just meant comparing fully rigged boats. A Glades skiff typically has 2 hatches, trim tabs, a poling platform, and a $4,000 motor. A Guide or Professional is generally setup with 5 hatches, jack plate, console, remote steering, GPS, power pole, trolling motor, livewell, seat cushions, poling platform, back rest, casting platform, etc, and a $9,000 motor.

Makes the latter look like quite the deal based on that, but maybe the accessories and rigging don’t make a huge difference in cost.


----------



## firecat1981

Why do you think most companies have 2ft-itis every other year. They figure for near the same money they can add 10% to the length, but charge 20% more.....


----------



## Godzuki86

firecat1981 said:


> Why do you think most companies have 2ft-itis every other year. They figure for near the same money they can add 10% to the length, but charge 20% more.....


I’m going to start charging 20% more when I add 10% to my length.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

This is a good thread going on here, I will jump in and give my 2 cents worth on a couple of the topics discussed here.

In 1998 when starting up HBBWs as designer builder of the hull shapes and engineer of all hull constructions and all builds I saw the need for a way simpler skiff to sell to the public that could not afford a $21,000.00 Whipray.
With a growing company that was bucking the current trend in skiff design with a light weight skiff being propelled by 25 hp outboards instead of the common 60+ hp ones in vogue it was an up hill struggle.
What got everybody’s attention was when they went for a ride. Yea... well you know the rest.
At the time I had to convince Hal and Flip that by offering the same hull shape but in a way simpler interior we could fill a market need and still make a few dollars on each unit sold. The main thing I was after was to keep the shop busy with these possible skiff sales because we did not have enough Whipray sales to keep growing and to keep us afloat. Remember this was over 20 years ago. Today it’s a different world.
They both were against it because they did not want to lose the clout of the high end market. I wanted to stay in business so I prevailed.
At the first showing of our basic $9,950.00 skiff guys went nuts but they all wanted the Whipray at the cheap skiff price.
The numbers were like this, at $9,950.00 no options we made about $1,800.00 per sale. 
For the Whipray at a basic price of $21,000.0 which not many bought at that price as they all went for the Kevlar- carbon option we would make average 100% or more on the sale. Between the bottom line skiff the difference was a few sheets of core,a cockpit, and the side decks. Everything else was very close.

Do the math for today. The skiff market is spread out all over the place. Everyone has their favorite team.

Jump to today HB has a great brand name and puts together beautifuly finished skiffs. To me they are way too heavy using my 20 year old hull shapes as their main guiding factor in their own tuning of these past designs. Mel Walker builds way more units than HB, Hal Chittum has spent the past 12 years trying to build 100 skiffs. I built over 150 skiffs in the first 18 months of HB history. Brian and Kaylor little of Sabine Skiffs have built more skiffs in one year that Chittum skiffs built in 10 years.The skiff market today is very diverse. You can spend a bunch of $ on a Chittum redesign of the HPX or you can buy one of Mel’s skiffs that work great at an affordable price.
You can buy used skiffs that work as well or better than new skiffs for a big savings. Or you can build a skiff to suit you if you have the time and skills.
The bottom line I always say is that skiffs sell for the prices they sell for is because the market will bear it.
You all are the market. Don’t like the prices don’t spend the $. 

Now about home builders VS store made skiffs.

I would like to thank you all for your kind words about me but the truth is I am just a 61 year old fart that has been around longer than all the other “skiff builders out there”. I cringe when someone says “legendary” next to my name. I am just like you all a regular guy working for a living that happens to be at times drawing hull shapes out and laying fiberglass. 
I have not built that many skiffs as people think. By myself I have built 62 vessels from 12’ to 40’. 
I have been project builder and leader on 3 large wood composite multihulls, 3 motor boats,
I helped train and worked along side the first 40-50 HB skiffs. I oversaw every skiff built during my time at HB. 352 skiffs, I designed, laid out and helped build all the plugs for all the original HB skiff designs.
I have built many plugs and molds for companies like Lurhs Mainship and others.
My biggest asset has been my work in repairing others designs. Learned tons from this.
I don’t know how many skiffs have been built to my designs or been influenced by them. I guess a few.

The difference between me and Hal is that I design boats on my own and actually build them.
I have never seen Hal, Flip, Chico, Stu,or many others ever show me a pencil drawing of a design, or ever bend over a mold or a skiffs hull actually getting getting dusty or itchy.
They can claim to be builder - designers only in print but not in reality. They are salesmen.

I have been on a quest to get average guys to see that they can build their own skiffs if shown how to do it.
My goal has been to explain the real costs and times so that if a person has the desire its way more cost effective to build on your own.
The end result will be your effort and ultimately your skill level.
A well built home made skiff or one-off skiff can compete with a store bought skiff BUT it all depends on your skill level. I started my career building 18 one of a kind skiffs in Key Largo that started this whole wedsite in 1983.
Half of those skiffs are still owned by the original clients. I did a good job. I am proud of this.

My advice to wanna be custom builders is to build your skiff quietly, test it real well and if alls perfect then just say, “here it is, let me show you in person why it could be better for your needs.”
When I introduce a new design of mine I have based this design on my past experience since starting out in 1983. Because I draw all my hulls out and do all my weight calculations in advance I know for sure where its going to float. What I have to fall back on is all my time with each design tweaking the little details. I have shared all my info online for free as I believe in doing this is to advance this market for all. If someone else can make one of my concepts work better then we all benefit.

At present I have over 40 different plans of mine being built all over the place. The only control over the final product is how well the builder follows my design plans. Most all deviate right off the start. It amazes me how a guy can order plans and then ask, “ ah how do I build it?” Several of the regulars on MS have asked me over 60 emails on what to do next from start to finish. Lots of it comes from not reading the plans to start with. Today it’s a YouTube world of just watching someone else showing you the way. 
Fortunately lots more guys have the skills to go along with the desire and do a fantastic job. Just absolutely professional. These guys make me look good.

Bottom line is I feel the following,
Can’t afford a top end skiff but have the desire, design and build your own skiff.
Can’t design a skiff then buy a good set of design plans.
Don’t have the desire to build your own, then.....
Buy what you like and can afford, used, new all skiffs out there today from Jon boats on up all work in their ways to get you to what really matters, is to fish.

Thanks again for helping me be included in a small part of this great market.


----------



## ifsteve

I wish I had a $ for every guy I know who started to build their own skiff......The fact is very very few guys have all the factors to actually do so successfully.

1. Knowledge
2. Skills
3. Equipment
and last but not least
4. Time

It sounds fun and something you can do for way less money than buying outright. And that is possible. But the problem is nobody is getting younger and our time is a limited commodity. How many guys here on MS started down a path to build or do a big retrofit and ended up actually finishing the project and within their planned budget?


----------



## Guest

ifsteve said:


> I wish I had a $ for every guy I know who started to build their own skiff......The fact is very very few guys have all the factors to actually do so successfully.
> 
> 1. Knowledge
> 2. Skills
> 3. Equipment
> and last but not least
> 4. Time
> 
> It sounds fun and something you can do for way less money than buying outright. And that is possible. But the problem is nobody is getting younger and our time is a limited commodity. How many guys here on MS started down a path to build or do a big retrofit and ended up actually finishing the project and within their planned budget?


This is very true Steve!

To build/rebuild a skiff one has to want it, to keep on building/rebuilding one either loves it, has a sickness, or both! There are much more easy and profitable ways to make a living!


----------



## KurtActual

Interesting that @Chris Morejohn recently posted a sketch for a 15' x 65" skiff.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BzCJ74phs7207pUJW9-4GzIz7fj81jZZloTHOc0/

Would love to see more builders in this size range.


----------



## Bluwave

prinjm6 said:


> Lol nah I'm good, I'm not going anywhere. Start backing your claims up with facts! Like I said, you are the first negative story on Glasser I've heard and I'm sure there is more to it than you're telling. Also I'm sure Jon is not perfect, he makes mistakes like any man. If Glasser was THAT bad why do folks still drop off their boats to him? Pretty sure Jon has owned his one business longer than Tom Gordon has owned the last 3 lol.



You said my name in a previous post and deleted it. Do I know you? I had a negative experience with Glasser, but that's because he's a con artist. 

By the way, I hate to break it to you, but Glasser sold his business to a fellow forum member.


----------



## jonny

WTF!


----------



## jonny

Back on the subject of the new HB. Does anyone know what hull this is based on? Or is it a entirely new design?


----------



## Guest

I know I know


----------



## jonny

Boatbrains said:


> I know I know


Well?


----------



## Rick88

It's an update on the Whipray I think they stretched it to 17'


----------



## SomaliPirate

Wow, this was a fun read.


----------



## Guest

jonny said:


> Well?


My lips are sealed! If they want to say then they can, not me.


----------



## Guest

jonny said:


> Well?


Also, to be clear... I am just speculating anyway


----------



## Bluwave

jonny said:


> Back on the subject of the new HB. Does anyone know what hull this is based on? Or is it a entirely new design?


I messaged HB when they posted it on Instagram and they said, "16' - 30k boat, motor, trailer"

.


----------



## devrep

ifsteve said:


> I wish I had a $ for every guy I know who started to build their own skiff......The fact is very very few guys have all the factors to actually do so successfully.
> 
> 1. Knowledge
> 2. Skills
> 3. Equipment
> and last but not least
> 4. Time
> 
> It sounds fun and something you can do for way less money than buying outright. And that is possible. But the problem is nobody is getting younger and our time is a limited commodity. How many guys here on MS started down a path to build or do a big retrofit and ended up actually finishing the project and within their planned budget?


everyone thinks that they haven't got time for anything. I don't know how many construction superintendents I heard this from during my career. you have more time than you think, but you have to work hard and be smart with your time. people almost seem proud about how overloaded they are with life these days. like its a badge of honor.


----------



## Half Shell

devrep said:


> everyone thinks that they haven't got time for anything. I don't know how many construction superintendents I heard this from during my career. you have more time than you think, but you have to work hard and be smart with your time. people almost seem proud about how overloaded they are with life these days. like its a badge of honor.


I have the time, but I don't trust my daughter's safety to a boat built with my skills. I need to start with a canoe.


----------



## DuckNut

Half Shell said:


> I have the time, but I don't my daughter's safety to a boat built with my skills. I need to start with a canoe.


Follow directions and you would be fine.


----------



## Pole Position

devrep said:


> everyone thinks that they haven't got time for anything. I don't know how many construction superintendents I heard this from during my career. you have more time than you think, but you have to work hard and be smart with your time. people almost seem proud about how overloaded they are with life these days. like its a badge of honor.



Jack Welch, former CEO of General Electric, once stated something to the effect that nothing turned him off more than an employee who would brag that he hadn't taken a vacation in years because he was too busy as it showed that said employee was very poor at budgeting his time.


----------



## jmrodandgun

Pole Position said:


> Jack Welch, former CEO of General Electric, once stated something to the effect that nothing turned him off more than an employee who would brag that he hadn't taken a vacation in years because he was too busy as it showed that said employee was very poor at budgeting his time.


Jack Welch is also a giant scum bag who was heavily criticized for treating his employees like shit. There is also the whole SEC investigation and some questionable bond trading that went on during his reign.


----------



## backbone

Nothing better than a good HB thread, If only it was winter and bad weather...


----------



## Snookyrookie

16 pages in and we still don’t have measurements or really know any details yet everyone has an opinion. I’d just like to know what it is and what it will do.


----------



## csnaspuck

Someone needs to create a members fan boy list that way when someone sticks up for a manufacturer we all can just refer to the list and not take shots at them.


----------



## HPXFLY

Deleted what I wrote not getting in a pissing match about boats on the internet. Some of you guys should fish more and type less.. or spend more time building if thats your thing..


----------



## KurtActual

csnaspuck said:


> Someone needs to create a members fan boy list that way when someone sticks up for a manufacturer we all can just refer to the list and not take shots at them.


Mark me down as a Sabine Skiffs fanboy now, then!


----------



## DuckNut

Snookyrookie said:


> 16 pages in and we still don’t have measurements or really know any details yet everyone has an opinion. I’d just like to know what it is and what it will do.


It is a variation of one of their aging hull designs and hopefully it will float just like all the other boats on the market and cost less than $60k.

How's that for vague? What color would you like?


----------



## MariettaMike

Tarpon Nole said:


> View attachment 81040


Looks pretty quick for a tiller electric motor.


----------



## HPXFLY

looks like a whipray, their gram page shows 3 guys picking it up with a motor on assuming fishing load no platforms tho..


----------



## Capnredfish

It must be at a lower price point. Pic on site has galvanized trailer wheels. Never noticed a Hellsbay trailer outfitted that way


----------



## grovesnatcher

Capnredfish said:


> It must be at a lower price point. Pic on site has galvanized trailer wheels. Never noticed a Hellsbay trailer outfitted that way


Lots of Ramlins have galvanized wheels depends on what you want when you order it.


----------



## Capnredfish

Ok, just thought a higher standard trailer was always paired with Hellsbay.


----------



## el9surf

I have galvanized wheels on my ramlin lol. Haven't gotten around to making them pretty. They roll for now and that's good enough.


----------



## LowHydrogen

Tarpon Nole said:


> View attachment 81040


Concentration, throttle control, leaning with shoulder, looking through the turn, he must ride motoGP


----------



## Matts

From what a very reputable source told us on a recent trip, it's a very lightweight modified Whipray with minimal features sold for about 30K as a bare bones fishing and poling machine. That's all I know. The prototype was supposed to be in TX late May but was still in the final steps of the build. 
Best,
Matt


----------



## Lostmen97

Starts at 30k boat, motor, trailer.


----------



## Pole Position

Looks like the wait is almost over; from the limited pic on Instagram, it will float skinny:













*hellsbayboatworks*
Full Eldora specs coming Monday. Here’s a peek at her draft.


----------



## fjmaverick

Pole Position said:


> Looks like the wait is almost over; from the limited pic on Instagram, it will float skinny:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *hellsbayboatworks*
> Full Eldora specs coming Monday. Here’s a peek at her draft.


Closing in on 2020

Should be interesting for the used market....


----------



## Lagoonnewb

Well it’s up on their website now, wonder what it drafts with 2 people and gear. They claimed it’s 3.5inches with gear, and fuel but no people cause that’s to subjective.
Funny that I mentioned how Ankona has their native14 that is somewhat comparable to this new eldora for less than half the coin and the deleted the comment from their page.


----------



## Rick88

Hey it's a whipray lol


----------



## Snookyrookie

I think we’ve reached a time that there is not a huge difference between any skiff as far as performance. The real difference only comes in fit and finish, reputation, and resale values. A name doesn’t guarantee better performance, but does mean something in the marketplace. Personally something like this doesn’t excite me to move from my Professional, but there are a huge number of skiff manufacturers that provide a near equal performance. It’s really a great time to be a shallow water fisherman (skiff wise), where you can choose how much of an investment you want to make in a boat rather than having to step up drastically to get the performance you are looking for. I admire HB for trying to give anglers more choices and enlarge their customer base by offering something on the lower end. Realistically is a 1” difference going to make someone pay $70k for a HB vs $40k for an ECC or $20k for an Ankona? More choices benefit people new to the game the most, and the more people fishing gives all of us more power to try and help us fix our water issues.


----------



## Lagoonnewb

Snookyrookie said:


> I think we’ve reached a time that there is not a huge difference between any skiff as far as performance. The real difference only comes in fit and finish, reputation, and resale values. A name doesn’t guarantee better performance, but does mean something in the marketplace. Personally something like this doesn’t excite me to move from my Professional, but there are a huge number of skiff manufacturers that provide a near equal performance. It’s really a great time to be a shallow water fisherman (skiff wise), where you can choose how much of an investment you want to make in a boat rather than having to step up drastically to get the performance you are looking for. I admire HB for trying to give anglers more choices and enlarge their customer base by offering something on the lower end. Realistically is a 1” difference going to make someone pay $70k for a HB vs $40k for an ECC or $20k for an Ankona? More choices benefit people new to the game the most, and the more people fishing gives all of us more power to try and help us fix our water issues.


I agree however 30k is not on the lower end of the market, it’s clearly the low end for the market that hell’s bay wants to cater towards though. I don’t think this is a bargain for what you get, a bare bones skiff should not run you 30k boat motor trailer. I feel like if they really wanted to expand their customer base they can cut down their price for this entry level skiff to get more people into their doors to expand their name.


----------



## el9surf

Lagoonnewb said:


> View attachment 81822
> View attachment 81824
> View attachment 81826
> Well it’s up on their website now, wonder what it drafts with 2 people and gear. They claimed it’s 3.5inches with gear, and fuel but no people cause that’s to subjective.
> Funny that I mentioned how Ankona has their native14 that is somewhat comparable to this new eldora for less than half the coin and the deleted the comment from their page.


Not sure what's funny about your post. Why would you feel the need to state another manufacturers pricing on their post? Does it somehow benefit you to dissuade people from considering something you don't see value in? It was probably deleted because it brings no value and serves no purpose. It's not like pricing is a secret in the skiff market. Not sure how the native 14 and eldora are somewhat comparable. Different boats, different lines....


----------



## Chris Morejohn

I weighed then around 155 lbs....so I stood way out on the bow to counteract Flips size. Flips wife Diane took this picture.








My wife Rachel took this picture of the 3 of us early one morning off a small dirt boat ramp in Mimms. No I am not in a mud hole, just short. We are not cheating by pushing the bow down to get the stern up. This was the good ole days of showing the skiff world that something new was out there.
Now that Hal’s name is erased from HB history I guess I will be next.








Eldora/Whipray








Eldora at the top and the original Whipray here with a modern engine fully rigged.
















Being the guy that designed the Whipray skiff hull and built the original plugs and molds I know what she looks like. The Eldora is a Whipray hull built with no hatches. Look at the green skiffs bow right under the towing eyebolt, now look at the white Eldoras bow in the same position where the Chines meet. See how the Chines match up the same with the slight unevenness right at the bow. Same mold used for both skiffs.
The Eldora is floating with the CNC trim tilt and the 25 just where all the original Whiprays floated with a full deck, hatches and floor with the 25 hp 2 stroke Mercs we used to sell on them.
Frank and Liz Steel of the Titusville Fly Shop ordered hull #3 with a side console and put a Yamaha 30 2 stroke on her. Frank said if she did not float in the 3-1/2” we advertised then he would not pay for the skiff. We went out for the test ride together in the bay with his wife Liz and a potato masher frank provided with a 3-1/2” mark on its side. Frank hung over the bow while I poled over a hard sand bottom so he could mash down and check the draft as we slid over the sandy bar as advertised.
Franks skiff has just come on the market for sale recently. 

I am so happy to see that my 22 year old design is still held in such high regard as to reinvent it again under a new name.

My CONCHFISH 16 design is an updated version of this proven classic design with many detail difference’s that make The CONCHFISH a better up-to-date small skiff design.

HBBWs will do well in the pricing they are quoting but what you will see is that people will want one at that price but with real hatches and lockers. 

Nothing new here folks.


----------



## el9surf

I'm just guessing here but HB doesn't care to be a value based floor plan skiff builder. They have limited production capabilities. That means they can only produce x amount of skiffs per year with their resources. Going out and catering to the 20k market with a waiting list isn't their business model.


----------



## Lagoonnewb

el9surf said:


> Not sure what's funny about your post. Why would you feel the need to state another manufacturers pricing on their post? Does it somehow benefit you to dissuade people from considering something you don't see value in? It was probably deleted because it brings no value and serves no purpose. It's not like pricing is a secret in the skiff market. Not sure how the native 14 and eldora somewhat comparable. Different boats, different lines....


Someone had asked about pricing of comparable skiffs, I replied it was then deleted. Comparable in terms of weight, hp rating, beam, and draft not so much on length as the eldora is 1.5 ft longer or more. Regardless though it’s an original whipray marked up for today’s pricing


----------



## Pole Position

Rick88 said:


> Hey it's a whipray lol


I am not going to laugh. Really--it's just not funny..............................screw it--that cracks me up as it was the same impression I had.


----------



## Rick88

It looks like in their pics of the molds they used nonskid incorporated into the mold to cut cost of using awlgrip and labor of spraying skid, (I may be wrong)


----------



## backbone

They all come out of the mold with nonskid. 
It lasts longer than awlgrip.


----------



## texasag07

What would be cool to see if them actually do something new like so many of other skiff companies instead of going back in time 20 years and charging 2-3 times what those skiff’s cost at the time. The portable tank looks pretty tacky sitting out in the open hatch on a 30k skiff in my opinion, but at least you wont have to cut the deck out or cut it up inside the hatch when the tank dies.

Look at the comments on their insta people already asking for bigger, motors, side consoles and hatches, lol


----------



## CoastalGAfisher07

Wish they would have built the transom up to fit an outboard that has factory tilt/trim. Also wonder if the price on these will go up in the near future and how they will do in the used market.


----------



## Rick88

backbone said:


> They all come out of the mold with nonskid.
> It lasts longer than awlgrip.


I was thinking of Drake I guess... I prefer awlgrip to molded nonskid it doesn't oxidize and stain like gel and cleans up much easier and it's only 1500 bucks to redo it every 10 yrs...just my opinion and experience tho


----------



## wardicus

New , old , same ...... I don’t care , it’s sexy as hell . Hells bay just builds quality sexy boats . I don’t think one has ever taken a bad pic !!! If I was in the skinny skiff market I’d be down ... as I love open style tillers ... People complaining it’s the same 20 year tech and Hull .. I mean at what point do we get to the cost of diminishing returns ? You really want to pay for that slight bit of performance ? That’s a limited market . Thinking Chittum here . How much does this truly need improved on ? Think it’s reputation speaks for itself ... now the built up transom I can see that ... valid ...


----------



## Barbs_deep

Rick88 said:


> I was thinking of Drake I guess... I prefer awlgrip to molded nonskid it doesn't oxidize and stain like gel and cleans up much easier and it's only 1500 bucks to redo it every 10 yrs...just my opinion and experience tho


A gel deck that is taken care of will last you a lifetime vs an awlgrip deck. Store it properly and the gel will never dry out and it wont stain. Mine is living proof and I've owned multiple skiffs with gel an awlgrip. Also, gel doesn't show signs of wear like paint when the griptex pops open.


----------



## Barbs_deep

Lagoonnewb said:


> View attachment 81822
> View attachment 81824
> View attachment 81826
> Well it’s up on their website now, wonder what it drafts with 2 people and gear. They claimed it’s 3.5inches with gear, and fuel but no people cause that’s to subjective.
> Funny that I mentioned how Ankona has their native14 that is somewhat comparable to this new eldora for less than half the coin and the deleted the comment from their page.


I saw your facebook post. The fact that you even think an Ankona is comparable to this hull shows your inexperience on the water. It didn't warrant a response from anybody and nobody was going to take you serious.


----------



## backbone

Rick88 said:


> I was thinking of Drake I guess... I prefer awlgrip to molded nonskid it doesn't oxidize and stain like gel and cleans up much easier and it's only 1500 bucks to redo it every 10 yrs...just my opinion and experience tho


My topside is 17 years old now, no stains, no oxidation.


----------



## TidewateR

i can remember many posts on this forum expressing the desire for HB to build the barebones whip again. When the “classic” was released a few years ago, everyone was fired up..until we saw the price point. Fast forward and HB finally built the barebones boat...It sounds people are still disappointed. I can understand why. Considering a restored barebones tiller from the golden era is still probably priced at or less than 30k and with bigger motors, hatches etc. (and in some cases new permanent tanks), I question how many Eldora’s will be sold. Really cool little boat that I’d love to fish though.


----------



## Chasintail22

Rick88 said:


> It looks like in their pics of the molds they used nonskid incorporated into the mold to cut cost of using awlgrip and labor of spraying skid, (I may be wrong)


Yes, all nonskid at HB is done in the molds. Anybody who claims it won't last as long as awl grip has not owned one, for that long, and taken care of it. For an average user, you'll get 7-10 years out of it before needing/wanting to redo it, which at that time it would be done with awl grip (if done by HB service Dept). Being done in the mold means consistent texture and clean lines ALWAYS. I've seen WAY too many botched awl grip jobs on boats by builders who can't make a straight line or a nice radius corner to save their life.

I have a 2001 Waterman so I'm a bit biased on the "new" Eldora, but I'll give my honest opinion here:

1. The hatch situation does kill me. My skiff has a large front hatch and the 2 rear buckets and I can easily fill the storage with just normal "stuff" for a normal day on the water. Plus it all stays dry. I don't care how minimalist you might be, there should have been top access hatches so you can actually take advantage of the space behind the bulkheads (which there is ALOT of). Basically wasted space now, plus a pain if you ever need to do maintenance.

2. The "no liner" is going to become an issue the second anybody wants to do any type of grab bar/seat/console thingy because A. There's no reinforcement in the floor to mount to and B. there's no way/where to run wiring to it unless you dig out a channel, reglass over it, etc... I think in reality that most guys looking to run a tiller these days, will absolutely prefer to have something to hold onto.

3. If you do want anything above/beyond the "spec list" on the skiff, it'll be done through Paul in the service dept. That means your boat goes through production, "finishes", and then Paul will have to add on your side console, add on your cockpit lights, add on your casting platform, etc... So if the build time is X weeks, you'll then get in the service line to actually finish the boat... the service dept is already typically swamped and months out. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

4. Carbon Inegra... worth it? My 2001 Waterman was done with the original layup schedules (@Chris Morejohn can elaborate as I don't even know personally what went into mine back then). It's the barebones edition, no liner, no gunwales, a 15gal aluminum tank, 40hp Merc 2 stroke tiller, wide poling tower, nav lights, and a bilge pump. When I worked at HB, we weighed it with a half tank of fuel and safety gear in the front hatch. It weighed 650lbs total. I can pole it in spit, one handed, while drinking a beer. It doesn't need to be any lighter. Now almost 20 years later, my skiff has no spider cracks, no delamination, no soft spots... and quite honestly I almost wish it weighed MORE so it would ride better in sh*t conditions. So, is the Inegra really worth it? Especially on a "price point" skiff?

Overall opinion... the hull is tried and trued, a fishing machine, and about as classic as they come. Not knocking the skiff at all, just pointing out some good talking points to consider when looking at building a new skiff. I sold 120 HBs in my time there and always made sure my clients were as educated as possible, rather than just selling on the hype. I love my skiff and clearly know the demand for it, so I can certainly see why HB would break into a new market. Think of it like a gateway drug. How many guys go out buying an "entry level" skiff only in hopes of one day owning an HB? When they get to the point in life where they can make that happen, they jump at the opportunity. There aren't guys buying an HB and then switching teams (unless you're a guide looking for handouts...). This skiff gives the potential to put a new skiff buyer into an HB right at that early point in time. A customer for life. A spokesperson, advocate, etc. Plus, think of how many more HB skiffs you'll see on the water... advertising. The brand grows.

Will I take this one for a ride to see how it compares to mine? Of course. If there's one thing I know for certain is no matter how "price point" the skiff is, the fit in finish will remain at the very top of the class. There's not another skiff builder out there that can touch the HB fit and finish, and there's not another shop I'll let touch mine. I'll be looking forward to crawling around this one at iCast the next few days...


----------



## wardicus

Chasintail22 said:


> Yes, all nonskid at HB is done in the molds. Anybody who claims it won't last as long as awl grip has not owned one, for that long, and taken care of it. For an average user, you'll get 7-10 years out of it before needing/wanting to redo it, which at that time it would be done with awl grip (if done by HB service Dept). Being done in the mold means consistent texture and clean lines ALWAYS. I've seen WAY too many botched awl grip jobs on boats by builders who can't make a straight line or a nice radius corner to save their life.
> 
> I have a 2001 Waterman so I'm a bit biased on the "new" Eldora, but I'll give my honest opinion here:
> 
> 1. The hatch situation does kill me. My skiff has a large front hatch and the 2 rear buckets and I can easily fill the storage with just normal "stuff" for a normal day on the water. Plus it all stays dry. I don't care how minimalist you might be, there should have been top access hatches so you can actually take advantage of the space behind the bulkheads (which there is ALOT of). Basically wasted space now, plus a pain if you ever need to do maintenance.
> 
> 2. The "no liner" is going to become an issue the second anybody wants to do any type of grab bar/seat/console thingy because A. There's no reinforcement in the floor to mount to and B. there's no way/where to run wiring to it unless you dig out a channel, reglass over it, etc... I think in reality that most guys looking to run a tiller these days, will absolutely prefer to have something to hold onto.
> 
> 3. If you do want anything above/beyond the "spec list" on the skiff, it'll be done through Paul in the service dept. That means your boat goes through production, "finishes", and then Paul will have to add on your side console, add on your cockpit lights, add on your casting platform, etc... So if the build time is X weeks, you'll then get in the service line to actually finish the boat... the service dept is already typically swamped and months out. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
> 
> 4. Carbon Inegra... worth it? My 2001 Waterman was done with the original layup schedules (Morejohn can elaborate as I don't even know personally what went into mine back then). It's the barebones edition, no liner, no gunwales, a 15gal aluminum tank, 40hp Merc 2 stroke tiller, wide poling tower, nav lights, and a bilge pump. When I worked at HB, we weighed it with a half tank of fuel and safety gear in the front hatch. It weighed 650lbs total. I can pole it in spit, one handed, while drinking a beer. It doesn't need to be any lighter. Now almost 20 years later, my skiff has no spider cracks, no delamination, no soft spots... and quite honestly I almost wish it weighed MORE so it would ride better in sh*t conditions. So, is the Inegra really worth it? Especially on a "price point" skiff?
> 
> Overall opinion... the hull is tried and trued, a fishing machine, and about as classic as they come. Not knocking the skiff at all, just pointing out some good talking points to consider when looking at building a new skiff. I sold 120 HBs in my time there and always made sure my clients were as educated as possible, rather than just selling on the hype. I love my skiff and clearly know the demand for it, so I can certainly see why HB would break into a new market. Think of it like a gateway drug. How many guys go out buying an "entry level" skiff only in hopes of one day owning an HB? When they get to the point in life where they can make that happen, they jump at the opportunity. There aren't guys buying an HB and then switching teams (unless you're a guide looking for handouts...). This skiff gives the potential to put a new skiff buyer into an HB right at that early point in time. A customer for life. A spokesperson, advocate, etc. Plus, think of how many more HB skiffs you'll see on the water... advertising. The brand grows.
> 
> Will I take this one for a ride to see how it compares to mine? Of course. If there's one thing I know for certain is no matter how "price point" the skiff is, the fit in finish will remain at the very top of the class. There's not another skiff builder out there that can touch the HB fit and finish, and there's not another shop I'll let touch mine. I'll be looking forward to crawling around this one at iCast the next few days...


Great post spot on


----------



## Lagoonnewb

Barbs_deep said:


> I saw your facebook post. The fact that you even think an Ankona is comparable to this hull shows your inexperience on the water. It didn't warrant a response from anybody and nobody was going to take you serious.


I mean it is somewhat comparable like I said above as far as fishability is concerned. I understand the fit and finish won’t be the same and there is a certain price I’m willing to pay for that type of work. That being said I will guarantee you will catch the same amount of fish in a native as you will this new hells bay for way less then half the money.
In no way do I consider myself inexperienced, I remember reading that once you do something for 10 years or more you can consider yourself a professional in that field/craft, most of us on this forum have reached that milestone when it comes to boats/skiffs/fishing so no need to make a personal attack. Agree to disagree


----------



## Shadowcast

I think it's a cool little skiff. Very similar dimensions and specs as the original Whipray which I contend is the true original poling skiff....and my all time favorite HB. They're will be a market out there for it.


----------



## Rick88

Barbs_deep said:


> A gel deck that is taken care of will last you a lifetime vs an awlgrip deck. Store it properly and the gel will never dry out and it wont stain. Mine is living proof and I've owned multiple skiffs with gel an awlgrip. Also, gel doesn't show signs of wear like paint when the griptex pops open.


Living proof of what lol your boat is one year old .... I've had plenty of gel nonskid boats that were all a pain in the ass. just my experience


----------



## Chasintail22

Rick88 said:


> Living proof of what lol your boat is one year old .... I've had plenty of gel nonskid boats that were all a pain in the ass. just my experience


Fun fact: I hand rolled the ice blue awl grip non skid that was on your cockpit floor before you redid the Whip. I also caught my very first Mosquito Lagoon red on that skiff. First lagoon red on fly. First bull red. First gigged flounder. Ran over my first manatee.... 

Jimmy is one of my best buddies. You did a hell of a job on the restoration


----------



## Rick88

I love that boat! he was talking about buying it back from me I offered it to him at a discount just to see it go back to him and his family! I'm finishing up a 1998 that a guy from charelston is buying from me. I love old hells bay I wish it was owned by flip and chris and run in a laid back fashion I'm not a huge fan of the over the top marketing crap Hal and the Peterson's are into with their companies. I like the here it is... it's the best we can build if you like it buy it mentality


----------



## Backcountry 16

About 10 k overpriced in my opinion for what's there. Plenty of nice skiffs out there for 30 k.


----------



## Rick88




----------



## Tx_Whipray

I don't think this will hurt the used market for the Morejohn or Gordon boats. Guys that seek those out specifically know what they are looking for and know what they would be getting into to do a restore, or buying one restored. I think it WILL hurt the market for the "Dark years" HBs because it will be a lot easier for guys who HAVE to have an HB to get financing for a new boat Vs a 15 year old boat.


----------



## Rick88

That being said the used market has come down quite a bit I saw a few Nice Whipray's sell for 20K in the last few months.


----------



## permitchaser

Man 18 pages of bitchen and moaning
My old fat boats looking better


----------



## Barbs_deep

Rick88 said:


> Living proof of what lol your boat is one year old .... I've had plenty of gel nonskid boats that were all a pain in the ass. just my experience


Not just referring to this one, but ok.


----------



## Rick88

I guess "mine is living proof" brought your current boat to the conversation as you only have one boat  ....but at the end of the day I was clear that it was an opinion that I think gel non skid is trash, feel free to enjoy your new HB regardless


----------



## jonny

LowHydrogen said:


> Concentration, throttle control, leaning with shoulder, looking through the turn, he must ride motoGP


If only he was throwing his inside leg out


----------



## Rick88

Braaaaaappp


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden

Great boat for guides who already have the open water skiff that drafts 10”. Glades skiff no more! Paying customers will appreciate this fine tool.


----------



## Rick88

You still have my favorite HB! I can't stand all the no shoes on my skiff owners. You use it as a tool and it's awesome, that grouper in the big well was the best HB vid I've ever seen


----------



## sjrobin

Chasintail22 said:


> Yes, all nonskid at HB is done in the molds. Anybody who claims it won't last as long as awl grip has not owned one, for that long, and taken care of it. For an average user, you'll get 7-10 years out of it before needing/wanting to redo it, which at that time it would be done with awl grip (if done by HB service Dept). Being done in the mold means consistent texture and clean lines ALWAYS. I've seen WAY too many botched awl grip jobs on boats by builders who can't make a straight line or a nice radius corner to save their life.
> 
> I have a 2001 Waterman so I'm a bit biased on the "new" Eldora, but I'll give my honest opinion here:
> 
> 1. The hatch situation does kill me. My skiff has a large front hatch and the 2 rear buckets and I can easily fill the storage with just normal "stuff" for a normal day on the water. Plus it all stays dry. I don't care how minimalist you might be, there should have been top access hatches so you can actually take advantage of the space behind the bulkheads (which there is ALOT of). Basically wasted space now, plus a pain if you ever need to do maintenance.
> 
> 2. The "no liner" is going to become an issue the second anybody wants to do any type of grab bar/seat/console thingy because A. There's no reinforcement in the floor to mount to and B. there's no way/where to run wiring to it unless you dig out a channel, reglass over it, etc... I think in reality that most guys looking to run a tiller these days, will absolutely prefer to have something to hold onto.
> 
> 3. If you do want anything above/beyond the "spec list" on the skiff, it'll be done through Paul in the service dept. That means your boat goes through production, "finishes", and then Paul will have to add on your side console, add on your cockpit lights, add on your casting platform, etc... So if the build time is X weeks, you'll then get in the service line to actually finish the boat... the service dept is already typically swamped and months out. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
> 
> 4. Carbon Inegra... worth it? My 2001 Waterman was done with the original layup schedules (@Chris Morejohn can elaborate as I don't even know personally what went into mine back then). It's the barebones edition, no liner, no gunwales, a 15gal aluminum tank, 40hp Merc 2 stroke tiller, wide poling tower, nav lights, and a bilge pump. When I worked at HB, we weighed it with a half tank of fuel and safety gear in the front hatch. It weighed 650lbs total. I can pole it in spit, one handed, while drinking a beer. It doesn't need to be any lighter. Now almost 20 years later, my skiff has no spider cracks, no delamination, no soft spots... and quite honestly I almost wish it weighed MORE so it would ride better in sh*t conditions. So, is the Inegra really worth it? Especially on a "price point" skiff?
> 
> Overall opinion... the hull is tried and trued, a fishing machine, and about as classic as they come. Not knocking the skiff at all, just pointing out some good talking points to consider when looking at building a new skiff. I sold 120 HBs in my time there and always made sure my clients were as educated as possible, rather than just selling on the hype. I love my skiff and clearly know the demand for it, so I can certainly see why HB would break into a new market. Think of it like a gateway drug. How many guys go out buying an "entry level" skiff only in hopes of one day owning an HB? When they get to the point in life where they can make that happen, they jump at the opportunity. There aren't guys buying an HB and then switching teams (unless you're a guide looking for handouts...). This skiff gives the potential to put a new skiff buyer into an HB right at that early point in time. A customer for life. A spokesperson, advocate, etc. Plus, think of how many more HB skiffs you'll see on the water... advertising. The brand grows.
> 
> Will I take this one for a ride to see how it compares to mine? Of course. If there's one thing I know for certain is no matter how "price point" the skiff is, the fit in finish will remain at the very top of the class. There's not another skiff builder out there that can touch the HB fit and finish, and there's not another shop I'll let touch mine. I'll be looking forward to crawling around this one at iCast the next few days...


Good critique and accurate Brian.


----------



## WatermanGB

Chris was that first picture taken in the NIRL or Mosquito Lagoon?? I remember when the water was that clear and grass thick. Sad where we are today.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Was


WatermanGB said:


> Chris was that first picture taken in the NIRL or Mosquito Lagoon?? I remember when the water was that clear and grass thick. Sad where we are today.


 taken off some spoil islands just north of the railroad bridge leaving Titusville going up the ICW. Before the dogleg to the cut.
I have not been through that area for at least 6-7 years now.


----------



## EdK13

Chris Morejohn said:


> Was
> 
> taken off some spoil islands just north of the railroad bridge leaving Titusville going up the ICW. Before the dogleg to the cut.
> I have not been through that area for at least 6-7 years now.


Why would ya. Its ruined.


----------



## DuckNut

Who has deposits down?


----------



## el9surf

DuckNut said:


> Who has deposits down?


What he meant to say. Who's going to voluntarily subject themselves to excessive judgement by a bunch of keyboard warriors?


----------



## CoastalGAfisher07

I'm on the fence, really wish it had a long shaft with factory tilt/trim, front/rear hatchs, an a permanent tank but none of them are options...


----------



## sjrobin

Chris Morejohn said:


> Was
> 
> taken off some spoil islands just north of the railroad bridge leaving Titusville going up the ICW. Before the dogleg to the cut.
> I have not been through that area for at least 6-7 years now.


You would not believe the water quality there now.


----------



## lost1317

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> I'm on the fence, really wish it had a long shaft with factory tilt/trim, front/rear hatchs, an a permanent tank but none of them are options...


I agree with ya but then it would be the Whipray that they offer and the price tag too. That's why people buy the older ones in the used market, like myself. You get the fit, finish and performance for a lot less than new. I have a feeling that if they let people add on those options to the Eldora the price would go up very quickly.


----------



## bryson

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> I'm on the fence, really wish it had a long shaft with factory tilt/trim, front/rear hatchs, an a permanent tank but none of them are options...


Yeah, but then it would be a Whipray, right?


----------



## CoastalGAfisher07

lost1317 said:


> I agree with ya but then it would be the Whipray that they offer and the price tag too. That's why people buy the older ones in the used market, like myself. You get the fit, finish and performance for a lot less than new. I have a feeling that if they let people add on those options to the Eldora the price would go up very quickly.


Yeah man your completely right, I get what they are trying to do and its a sweet boat for sure. I want to keep it in the small tidal creek behind my house on weekends but have to make really long runs and a permanent 8 or 10gal tank would be nice.


----------



## FishWithChris

well, you can always buy one and have a permanent tank custom built and glassed in


----------



## backbone

I’m sure if you want one put in, HB will make it happen. It’s just going to cost extra.


----------



## fjmaverick

backbone said:


> I’m sure if you want one put in, HB will make it happen. It’s just going to cost extra.


As they say; its _only _money. Right?


----------



## el9surf

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> Yeah man your completely right, I get what they are trying to do and its a sweet boat for sure. I want to keep it in the small tidal creek behind my house on weekends but have to make really long runs and a permanent 8 or 10gal tank would be nice.


What kind of range would you have on a 6 gallon temp tank with a Yamaha 25 four stroke? I would think your range would be more limited by speed. I'm willing to bet you could probably run wot for 6 hours on 6 gallons and still have fuel left to burn.


----------



## Capnredfish

Don’t care for tillers. But it is a nice looking, clean, small and simple boat.


----------



## HPXFLY

If someone wants to make some money start retrofitting these new SS yami 25s with electric TT.. only reason I have a Tohatsu 20hp SS on my 16 whip is bc of the electric TT.


----------



## HPXFLY

And those guys asking for more HP, have never poled a light motor (100-125lb motor) whipray vs one with a 30-40-50hp... the 8mph or so in speed isnt worth it if you use this boat for what its designed


----------



## firecat1981

el9surf said:


> What kind of range would you have on a 6 gallon temp tank with a Yamaha 25 four stroke? I would think your range would be more limited by speed. I'm willing to bet you could probably run wot for 6 hours on 6 gallons and still have fuel left to burn.


I would say no. I have a 20hp yahama and at cruise (4300-5200 depending on load) I get about 17-20mpg if memory serves. At WOT maybe 12-15mpg at 26mph. The 25hp will burn a little more. Cruising for a good 4 hours shouldn't be an issue though.


----------



## el9surf

firecat1981 said:


> I would say no. I have a 20hp yahama and at cruise (4300-5200 depending on load) I get about 17-20mpg if memory serves. At WOT maybe 12-15mpg at 26mph. The 25hp will burn a little more. Cruising for a good 4 hours shouldn't be an issue though.



I don't know about you all, but I wouldn't have any interest in going 50- 60 miles with a tiller during a fishing trip. Hell I don't think I'd want to cover more than about 20 miles. That's not what this boat is designed for.


----------



## Stevie

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> Yeah man your completely right, I get what they are trying to do and its a sweet boat for sure. I want to keep it in the small tidal creek behind my house on weekends but have to make really long runs and a permanent 8 or 10gal tank would be nice.


I blv Atwood makes a 9 gallon plastic tank. There are also 3 gallon top off jugs by JP racing...


----------



## firecat1981

el9surf said:


> I don't know about you all, but I wouldn't have any interest in going 50- 60 miles with a tiller during a fishing trip. Hell I don't think I'd want to cover more than about 20 miles. That's not what this boat is designed for.


Not in a single day with a tiller, but if you are out on vacation or camping it's nice to be able to bridge 3 days or so.


----------



## el9surf

firecat1981 said:


> Not in a single day with a tiller, but if you are out on vacation or camping it's nice to be able to bridge 3 days or so.


I see what you are saying but a spare gas can isn't hard to bring along on that type of trip. If you do trips like that frequently you should be looking at a different boat in my opinion.


----------



## Finsleft258

Rick88 said:


> I was thinking of Drake I guess... I prefer awlgrip to molded nonskid it doesn't oxidize and stain like gel and cleans up much easier and it's only 1500 bucks to redo it every 10 yrs...just my opinion and experience tho


You can redo gelcoat every 10 years for cheaper than that. Since you're 30-ish, exactly how many boats have you had to redo every 10 years?


----------



## el9surf

I will add this. For 30k they could and should throw in a metal tank. Not sure what size tank would fit. You might end up bringing a spare gas can on a longer 3 day trip anyways.


----------



## firecat1981

el9surf said:


> I see what you are saying but a spare gas can isn't hard to bring along on that type of trip. If you do trips like that frequently you should be looking at a different boat in my opinion.


I think most guys who do extended trips in shallow waters would disagree with you. When space is at a premium having to take Jerry cans is a pain. That being said, I'm a fan of portable tanks, but not if I'm paying 30k for a skiff.


----------



## Rick88

Finsleft258 said:


> You can redo gelcoat every 10 years for cheaper than that. Since you're 30-ish, exactly how many boats have you had to redo every 10 years?


That's retail on having it professionally done, not letting your brother cousin roll it in his back yard.....
I've had a lot of boats with lots of different non skids 
I like awlgrip over molded gel nonskid, I don't care what you like that's why I didn't ask


----------



## jmrodandgun

el9surf said:


> I'm willing to bet you could probably run wot for 6 hours on 6 gallons and still have fuel left to burn.


Math is really hard.


----------



## Finsleft258

Rick88 said:


> That's retail on having it professionally done, not letting your brother cousin roll it in his back yard.....
> I've had a lot of boats with lots of different non skids
> I like awlgrip over molded gel nonskid, I don't care what you like that's why I didn't ask


Hook, line, and sinker! You've got to relax if you're gonna be in this industry. 

Regarding the gelcoat, there are additives that improve the surface performance so that it lasts longer and retains its color. Still, it's porous and easier to stain. From a retail perspective, it's about 30-40% less due to the material costs and slightly reduced prep time. It also is much easier to apply and less temperamental from a catalyzing standpoint. 

For paint, the common problems I've seen have to do with the type/color of the abrasive media in the coating. Once the coating begins to wear, you can see the "grit" throughout. Also, depending on if it's an acrylic LPU or polyester LPU, the UV degradation characteristics are different--prep and primer system plays a critical roll.

For complete transparency, I agree with you and prefer painted non-skid. Just keep in mind there are different levels of "professionally done." While $1500 seems great, it won't cover the cost for an engineered coatings stack that is applied according to the manufacturers application data specifications. That does make a difference in years when you're talking about longevity/durability.


----------



## jmrodandgun

If anyone wants to see what molded nonskid looks like after two years of somewhat hard use, I'll happily show you mine. Anyone who knows me knows I don't make a big deal about people stepping in the boat with dirty shoes or dropping things on the gelcoat nonskid. I scrub the deck with regular deck cleaner and wax it with whatever wax I have laying around a couple times a year. The nonskid looks perfect. I have some stubborn staining where the casting platform feet come in contact but it is otherwise flawless. 

Previous boat was painted nonskid. It was without a doubt easier to clean but didn't look as good.


----------



## Finsleft258

jmrodandgun said:


> If anyone wants to see what molded nonskid looks like after two years of somewhat hard use, I'll happily show you mine. Anyone who knows me knows I don't make a big deal about people stepping in the boat with dirty shoes or dropping things on the gelcoat nonskid. I scrub the deck with regular deck cleaner and wax it with whatever wax I have laying around a couple times a year. The nonskid looks perfect. I have some stubborn staining where the casting platform feet come in contact but it is otherwise flawless.
> 
> Previous boat was painted nonskid. It was without a doubt easier to clean but didn't look as good.


Nearly every "top-tier" manufacturer on the market would agree with that as well. There is a reason they do it. 

I forgot to add that gelcoat does have superior chemical resistance as well. The wrong cleaner or spray will absolutely wreck some paint formulations.


----------



## Rick88

Finsleft258 said:


> Hook, line, and sinker! You've got to relax if you're gonna be in this industry.
> 
> Regarding the gelcoat, there are additives that improve the surface performance so that it lasts longer and retains its color. Still, it's porous and easier to stain. From a retail perspective, it's about 30-40% less due to the material costs and slightly reduced prep time. It also is much easier to apply and less temperamental from a catalyzing standpoint.
> 
> For paint, the common problems I've seen have to do with the type/color of the abrasive media in the coating. Once the coating begins to wear, you can see the "grit" throughout. Also, depending on if it's an acrylic LPU or polyester LPU, the UV degradation characteristics are different--prep and primer system plays a critical roll.
> 
> For complete transparency, I agree with you and prefer painted non-skid. Just keep in mind there are different levels of "professionally done." While $1500 seems great, it won't cover the cost for an engineered coatings stack that is applied according to the manufacturers application data specifications. That does make a difference in years when you're talking about longevity/durability.


You are missing the point of the original post..that putting nonskid into the mold is a cost savings over doing an awlgrip job to a skiff with slick nonskid sections out of the mold. We aren't talking about restorations here you can pm me if you wanna get into that



jmrodandgun said:


> If anyone wants to see what molded nonskid looks like after two years of somewhat hard use, I'll happily show you mine. Anyone who knows me knows I don't make a big deal about people stepping in the boat with dirty shoes or dropping things on the gelcoat nonskid. I scrub the deck with regular deck cleaner and wax it with whatever wax I have laying around a couple times a year. The nonskid looks perfect. I have some stubborn staining where the casting platform feet come in contact but it is otherwise flawless.
> 
> Previous boat was painted nonskid. It was without a doubt easier to clean but didn't look as good.


I had an 07 ecc with molded skid that was fished hard
And a 99 whip with awlgrip skid that was fished hard the 10yr old awlgrip was superior in my case


----------



## Backcountry 16

firecat1981 said:


> I think most guys who do extended trips in shallow waters would disagree with you. When space is at a premium having to take Jerry cans is a pain. That being said, I'm a fan of portable tanks, but not if I'm paying 30k for a skiff.


I'm also a portable tank fan and opted to go with portable tanks on the Conchfish Travis is building for me I'll be putting 2 6 gallon tanks upfront.


el9surf said:


> I don't know about you all, but I wouldn't have any interest in going 50- 60 miles with a tiller during a fishing trip. Hell I don't think I'd want to cover more than about 20 miles. That's not what this boat is designed for.


Cut my teeth on tillers and enjoy running my tiller more than my flats boat just tuck it under your arm and ride out. I do 60 mile trips in the glades all the time I do have a tiller extension thought so that helps on the longer runs


----------



## K3anderson

Backcountry 16 said:


> I'm also a portable tank fan and opted to go with portable tanks on the Conchfish Travis is building for me I'll be putting 2 6 gallon tanks upfront./QUOTE]
> 
> Wait a min. Were you dogging the Spears in this thread??


----------



## el9surf

firecat1981 said:


> I think most guys who do extended trips in shallow waters would disagree with you. When space is at a premium having to take Jerry cans is a pain. That being said, I'm a fan of portable tanks, but not if I'm paying 30k for a skiff.


People are already trying to turn this into something it's not intended for. I know folks that take cans on 3-4 day trips even with a built in tank.


jmrodandgun said:


> Math is really hard.



I don't have a motor that size, was just taking a guess. What's your point? Or did you just feel like being a dick?


----------



## firecat1981

el9surf said:


> People are already trying to turn this into something it's not intended for. I know folks that take cans on 3-4 day trips even with a built in tank.


The customer shelling out the ridiculous amount of money gets to dictate its intended purpose, not you. 
But let's assume it's intended purpose is to fish remote shallow areas where some other boats can't go....


----------



## jmrodandgun

el9surf said:


> I don't have a motor that size, was just taking a guess. What's your point? Or did you just feel like being a dick?


I thought your guess was funny. At first I thought it was a typo. Less than a gallon per hour? That's crazy talk.


----------



## Fritz

el9surf said:


> What kind of range would you have on a 6 gallon temp tank with a Yamaha 25 four stroke? I would think your range would be more limited by speed. I'm willing to bet you could probably run wot for 6 hours on 6 gallons and still have fuel left to burn.


I haven’t seen data for the new gen F25 yet, but I thought I heard fuel burn is something like 2.8gph at WOT.

A rough rule of thumb is 1gph for every 10hp at WOT.

So I’d guess maybe two and a half hours of WOT time on a portable tank, but at 30 mph that’s an easy 70 miles.

I have not ruled out a portable tank for my next skiff, just don’t want it sliding around.


----------



## TheAdamsProject

You can find the bulletins for the previous F25. With a small skiff 977lbs loaded as tested 28.8mph with 2.8gph and 10.20mpg at 6000rpm. New one will probably be close.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

This is a one of 2 skiffs we built in 1999 for Bayard Sharpe of Boca Grand to be used aboard his 90’ Tom Fexas motor yacht. The Bushes fished out of this skiff for years during the holidays spent at Bayards place.
What you see here is hull #58 built old style tech. 
Gelcoat, 3/4 oz matt. 1-1/2 oz. matt, 10 oz Kevlar cloth then 1-1/2 oz matt with 1/2” dyvinecell kerfed core hand laid into the wet matt. Then 1 layer 1-1/2oz matt finished with 1 layer 7 oz cloth.
All regular polyester resin, all done by hand.
That’s a 30hp Yamaha on the stern, 3 hatches, baitwell, floor, fuel tank, gear tackle and a cooler in this 20 year old skiff.
She’s floating way better at 20 years old than the NEW redesigned Eldora skiff.
She has painted on awlgrip nonskid as we had not made the new deck mold yet.


----------



## DuckNut

Chris Morejohn said:


> View attachment 82148
> 
> This is a one of 2 skiffs we built in 1999 for Bayard Sharpe of Boca Grand to be used aboard his 90’ Tom Fexas motor yacht. The Bushes fished out of this skiff for years during the holidays spent at Bayards place.
> What you see here is hull #58 built old style tech.
> Gelcoat, 3/4 oz matt. 1-1/2 oz. matt, 10 oz Kevlar cloth then 1-1/2 oz matt with 1/2” dyvinecell kerfed core hand laid into the wet matt. Then 1 layer 1-1/2oz matt finished with 1 layer 7 oz cloth.
> All regular polyester resin, all done by hand.
> That’s a 30hp Yamaha on the stern, 3 hatches, baitwell, floor, fuel tank, gear tackle and a cooler in this 20 year old skiff.
> She’s floating way better at 20 years old than the NEW redesigned Eldora skiff.
> She has painted on awlgrip nonskid as we had not made the new deck mold yet.


This is great, you covered all of the topics except one...what was the fuel consumption at wot?


----------



## Rick88

I never checked fuel burn... that's one of of my old skiffs!


----------



## Backcountry 16

Rick88 said:


> I never checked fuel burn... that's one of of my old skiffs!


Yeah then you ruined it with that side console


----------



## Rick88

Pfft "enhanced" is more like it however I saved hull 38 from having gunnels installed so the purists out there can't cry too much I redeemed myself


----------



## Capnredfish

What was this about? Non skid that’s it. 2006 Hells Bay copy B2 with molded gel non skid, looks like new other than some surface scratches on shiny parts. Nothing that won’t buff out.


----------



## Finsleft258

Rick88 said:


> Pfft "enhanced" is more like it however I saved hull 38 from having gunnels installed so the purists out there can't cry too much I redeemed myself
> View attachment 82166


Looks like gel coat there. Why no paint?


----------



## Rick88

why would I paint the whole boat? it will be getting re geled inside and awlgrip skid


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

Midway through a 75 mile daytrip. Not a seat cushion or steering wheel in sight. Make tiller boats great again!


----------



## Lagoonnewb

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Midway through a 75 mile daytrip. Not a seat cushion or steering wheel in sight. Make tiller boats great again!


But a cushion sure does sounds nice on a rough day lol


----------



## fjmaverick

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Midway through a 75 mile daytrip. Not a seat cushion or steering wheel in sight. Make tiller boats great again!


Id need all that floor space to lay down after that


----------



## Rick88

^^^ hahahahha


----------



## Tailer

Range really depends on where you fish, I routinely make 60-80 mile round trip runs in tiller skiffs in the Everglades. If I ordered an Eldora I think I'd have someone build a custom 12gal tank for for the bow.


----------



## Chasintail22

@Rick88 do you own a shop of some sort? That one you're working on right now is just like my old girl...


----------



## BassFlats

I'm sure the lady in the last picture would not like to be called "old girl".


----------



## Godzuki86

Chasintail22 said:


> @Rick88 do you own a shop of some sort? That one you're working on right now is just like my old girl...
> 
> View attachment 82274
> View attachment 82276
> View attachment 82278


It’s not polite to brag.


----------



## K3anderson

Chasintail22 said:


> @Rick88 do you own a shop of some sort? That one you're working on right now is just like my old girl...
> 
> View attachment 82274
> View attachment 82276
> View attachment 82278


What did that realistically run in with the 60 and no tunnel? Thnx...


----------



## Redfan

Chris Morejohn said:


> View attachment 82148
> 
> This is a one of 2 skiffs we built in 1999 for Bayard Sharpe of Boca Grand to be used aboard his 90’ Tom Fexas motor yacht. The Bushes fished out of this skiff for years during the holidays spent at Bayards place.
> What you see here is hull #58 built old style tech.
> Gelcoat, 3/4 oz matt. 1-1/2 oz. matt, 10 oz Kevlar cloth then 1-1/2 oz matt with 1/2” dyvinecell kerfed core hand laid into the wet matt. Then 1 layer 1-1/2oz matt finished with 1 layer 7 oz cloth.
> All regular polyester resin, all done by hand.
> That’s a 30hp Yamaha on the stern, 3 hatches, baitwell, floor, fuel tank, gear tackle and a cooler in this 20 year old skiff.
> She’s floating way better at 20 years old than the NEW redesigned Eldora skiff.
> She has painted on awlgrip nonskid as we had not made the new deck mold yet.


Mr. Chris, what do you look at to tell that one boat is floating better than another? Are there any other HB models that don't look like they float right to you as well? Is this because of the reduced weight?


----------



## Capt Lew

Chris Morejohn said:


> View attachment 82148
> 
> This is a one of 2 skiffs we built in 1999 for Bayard Sharpe of Boca Grand to be used aboard his 90’ Tom Fexas motor yacht. The Bushes fished out of this skiff for years during the holidays spent at Bayards place.
> What you see here is hull #58 built old style tech.
> Gelcoat, 3/4 oz matt. 1-1/2 oz. matt, 10 oz Kevlar cloth then 1-1/2 oz matt with 1/2” dyvinecell kerfed core hand laid into the wet matt. Then 1 layer 1-1/2oz matt finished with 1 layer 7 oz cloth.
> All regular polyester resin, all done by hand.
> That’s a 30hp Yamaha on the stern, 3 hatches, baitwell, floor, fuel tank, gear tackle and a cooler in this 20 year old skiff.
> She’s floating way better at 20 years old than the NEW redesigned Eldora skiff.
> She has painted on awlgrip nonskid as we had not made the new deck mold yet.


I worked for Mr. Sharp from the late 80's until his death. The first 2 Whiprays really were a dream to pole, before we had Combee airboat hulls glassed in . Many Tarpon, Permit, Bonefish & Snook were caught from those skiffs. I still have pictures of those and the first Guide that joined the fleet. I sure miss the good old days, thanks Lew


----------



## Rick88

@Chasintail22 I co-own outcast boatworks with the owner of skiff outfitters. I took the no gunnel boat as a partial trade for my 99 whipray I sold a month or two ago, it's now getting spiffed up for the guy Who is purchasing it from me


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

Lagoonnewb said:


> But a cushion sure does sounds nice on a rough day lol


I’ve resisted it for the last two years but I’m about to order a bench cushion for the rear deck. I turned 28 this year so I’m starting to feel those long runs the next day.


----------



## Chasintail22

K3anderson said:


> What did that realistically run in with the 60 and no tunnel? Thnx...


It’s a 40 actually. Can it run in less than a foot? Absolutely. Would I do that often? Not unless necessary. Poles in under 5” no problem. 35mph wide open with 2 people. Ran islamorada to buoy key last weekend, approx 23 miles, on less than 1/4 tank of fuel (one way).


----------



## Half Shell

You guys running 60 miles in a 30 mph WOT, 2 degree, tiller skiff must be younger than me, not have spinal stenosis, and not running that 60 miles on the outside.

When I run from Chokoloskee to Harney River I'm glad I have a 50mph 21' boat with a leaning post. Maybe in a Marquessa or Vantage but no way could I do it in a tiller Eldora.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

Half Shell said:


> You guys running 60 miles in a 30 mph WOT, 2 degree, tiller skiff must be younger than me, not have spinal stenosis, and not running that 60 miles on the outside.
> 
> When I run from Chokoloskee to Harney River I'm glad I have a 50mph 21' boat with a leaning post. Maybe in a Marquessa or Vantage but no way could I do it in a tiller Eldora. Would be nice to have south of Flamingo though.


The sandbar my skiff is parked on in that photo is 13 miles from the nearest piece of land, which is ironically another sandbar that sits 12 miles from the mainland. Best fishing the Florida panhandle has to offer! My next skiff will be better suited for activities like that. Most likely a biscayne.


----------



## MMessana

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I’ve resisted it for the last two years but I’m about to order a bench cushion for the rear deck. I turned 28 this year so I’m starting to feel those long runs the next day.


Love my cushion, so does the lady friend!


----------



## Godzuki86

Half Shell said:


> You guys running 60 miles in a 30 mph WOT, 2 degree, tiller skiff must be younger than me, not have spinal stenosis, and not running that 60 miles on the outside.
> 
> When I run from Chokoloskee to Harney River I'm glad I have a 50mph 21' boat with a leaning post. Maybe in a Marquessa or Vantage but no way could I do it in a tiller Eldora.


You could do it in an Eldora easily... if the winds are null and have been for a couple days. But have that afternoon W-SW wind pick up and I’d rather pull the plug and go down with the ship.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Redfan said:


> Mr. Chris, what do you look at to tell that one boat is floating better than another? Are there any other HB models that don't look like they float right to you as well? Is this because of the reduced weight?


Good question, this whole thread started with HB anoucing a new design and a lower cost skiff. I have stepped in here to explain some reasoning for renaming a skiff to separate it from a higher end costing skiff.
We did it with the Whipray turning it into what came to be known as the Waterman. It had names like the Andros, Mosquito Lagoon, Skate and in another offshoot it became the Gordon Skiff, the common denominator was they all had the Whiprays original bottom/hull shape with different interior builds.
Now here comes along the Eldora skiff and I just see that it’s the same old hull again, of which I am very proud of, but with a new sales pitch to go along with it. All great to me.
Where I like to come in is as an old parent talking about a kid that’s grown up and explaining well.....they have put on a bit of weight here and there over the past 22 years. First place is in the engine for sure.
But then the rest comes down to how the interior is built because it’s the same hull carrying the same displacement. Very hard to hide that extra weight..... or to showcase the lost weight.
It’s very easy to then compare transom depths and bow heights. First thing I look for is the lower spray strake out of the water when no ones aboard. It you see a Whipray skiff with that strake under water at rest with no one aboard it’s got some weight to her. But that’s ok. Look at what’s inside etc.
Lots of people liked to pole the early Waterman skiffs with the no side decks because they were so light. But the ride was not the same as a fully decked and built Whipray. Different weights, builds=different rides.
To me there is so much Hoop a la about new cloths and infusion but I just enjoy pointing back to old school built hand laid up using a bucket of resin like the Sharp skiffs to show that it still comes down to what’s put in or left out that makes them float lighter. A super light weight skiff is no fun at all unless you live in a no wind zone.

Glad to hear about the Sharps skiffs working out well. Was a great time back then working with Phil, and Zeke.

All the Hell Bay skiffs float way to heavy for my 20+ year old designs to my way of thinking. I can just show pictures of past builds with the way they floated back then to today’s standard. Way bigger engines, more gear, plain and simple they are built with more material that gives more weight. Is this bad, no. But it’s like having an extra guy aboard all the time.


----------



## crboggs

I love the minimalist tiller approach!

Can you get the Eldora with a tunnel option? Asking for a friend.


----------



## el9surf

crboggs said:


> I love the minimalist tiller approach!
> 
> Can you get the Eldora with a tunnel option? Asking for a friend.


That version will have a 10" draft by the time it's all said and done.


----------



## crboggs

el9surf said:


> That version will have a 10" draft by the time it's all said and done.


Yeah...plenty will be bought and tricked out until they look like porcupines with crap attached all over them...double PP Micros, trolling motors, etc. It'll be sad to see...


----------



## Redfan

Chris Morejohn said:


> Good question, this whole thread started with HB anoucing a new design and a lower cost skiff. I have stepped in here to explain some reasoning for renaming a skiff to separate it from a higher end costing skiff.
> We did it with the Whipray turning it into what came to be known as the Waterman. It had names like the Andros, Mosquito Lagoon, Skate and in another offshoot it became the Gordon Skiff, the common denominator was they all had the Whiprays original bottom/hull shape with different interior builds.
> Now here comes along the Eldora skiff and I just see that it’s the same old hull again, of which I am very proud of, but with a new sales pitch to go along with it. All great to me.
> Where I like to come in is as an old parent talking about a kid that’s grown up and explaining well.....they have put on a bit of weight here and there over the past 22 years. First place is in the engine for sure.
> But then the rest comes down to how the interior is built because it’s the same hull carrying the same displacement. Very hard to hide that extra weight..... or to showcase the lost weight.
> It’s very easy to then compare transom depths and bow heights. First thing I look for is the lower spray strake out of the water when no ones aboard. It you see a Whipray skiff with that strake under water at rest with no one aboard it’s got some weight to her. But that’s ok. Look at what’s inside etc.
> Lots of people liked to pole the early Waterman skiffs with the no side decks because they were so light. But the ride was not the same as a fully decked and built Whipray. Different weights, builds=different rides.
> To me there is so much Hoop a la about new cloths and infusion but I just enjoy pointing back to old school built hand laid up using a bucket of resin like the Sharp skiffs to show that it still comes down to what’s put in or left out that makes them float lighter. A super light weight skiff is no fun at all unless you live in a no wind zone.
> 
> Glad to hear about the Sharps skiffs working out well. Was a great time back then working with Phil, and Zeke.
> 
> All the Hell Bay skiffs float way to heavy for my 20+ year old designs to my way of thinking. I can just show pictures of past builds with the way they floated back then to today’s standard. Way bigger engines, more gear, plain and simple they are built with more material that gives more weight. Is this bad, no. But it’s like having an extra guy aboard all the time.


Thanks Mr. Chris, do you have a pic of a skiff that’s floating perfectly in your mind loaded (and give commentary to it)? I appreciate your experience and opinions on everything. Admittedly, most of it flys over my head...but sometimes I learn a thing or two.


----------



## jonny

Rick88 said:


> You are missing the point of the original post..that putting nonskid into the mold is a cost savings over doing an awlgrip job to a skiff with slick nonskid sections out of the mold. We aren't talking about restorations here you can pm me if you wanna get into that
> 
> 
> 
> I had an 07 ecc with molded skid that was fished hard
> And a 99 whip with awlgrip skid that was fished hard the 10yr old awlgrip was superior in my case


I had 07 ECC also. And the awlgrip looked like shit in short order. It had little black spots all over it. Where the particles were chipping or breaking up. Or paint didn’t adhere. My 01 HB Guide gel looks immaculate. I know they have made improvements on the nonskid additives recently. I like some of rubber based additives. So my experience is a bit different than yours. Although I have had some old gel coat diamond nonskids in the past that were shiat


----------



## Rick88

Dang my east cape skid was gel and awful
The gel egret nonskid was bad w staining
Multiple action crafts over the years (one was mine) staining was bad but the diamond grip holds up forever
My 98 whip had leatherette gel skid I don't think it counts lol
99 whip had 10 yr old awlgrip that had some spots the paint was knocked off the skid particles from use I had it redone when I restored the boat.
I prefer the awlgrip from my experience and having a boat that Sits uncovered on an open lift most of the time & isn't gonna be exclusively stored in an air conditioned garage and walked on in socks... we drop cast nets on the decks sheepshead fish ding jigheads off the deck etc

I think the original point was missed that molding the skid into the mold is a cost saver, regardless of preference I don't think anyone would turn down a new HB or any boat for that matter over the nonskid.


----------



## MMessana

jonny said:


> I had 07 ECC also. And the awlgrip looked like shit in short order. It had little black spots all over it. Where the particles were chipping or breaking up. Or paint didn’t adhere. My 01 HB Guide gel looks immaculate. I know they have made improvements on the nonskid additives recently. I like some of rubber based additives. So my experience is a bit different than yours. I have had some old diamond nonskids in the past that were shit


I'd agree with you on that. My EC Gladesman's non skid looked terrible. May have not been kept up as well as it should've been though with me being the third owner of it. Then again its a glorified canoe that gets skinny and I didn't really care how it looked since I was a broke college student lol


----------



## manny2376

Can anyone expand on why they chose the Yami 25hp *without elec trim/tilt? Which forced them to add that CMC trim/tilt... why not just spec a tohatsu 30hp and save yourself the extra setback and gain 5hp?


----------



## manny2376

manny2376 said:


> Can anyone expand on why they chose the Yami 25hp *without elec trim/tilt? Which forced them to add that CMC trim/tilt... why not just spec a tohatsu 30hp and save yourself the extra setback and gain 5hp?


Googled the weight specs... looks like switching to a 30hp Tohatsu ends up being only 9 additional pounds since you wouldn’t need the CMC. I had a shadowcast with a hatsu 30 a while back and loved that motor!


----------



## Rick88

The 25 Suzuki is another great motor that has a 15" shaft and power t&t!
you can also swap ecc and make it a 30hp


----------



## manny2376

Rick88 said:


> The 25 Suzuki is another great motor that has a 15" shaft and power t&t!
> you can also swap ecc and make it a 30hp


How long before someone rigs up a Gheenoe style 5” transom riser for one of these skiffs? 

I REALLY want to like this skiff, but some of the details don’t jive for me personally.


----------



## Sublime

manny2376 said:


> Googled the weight specs... looks like switching to a 30hp Tohatsu ends up being only 9 additional pounds since you wouldn’t need the CMC. I had a shadowcast with a hatsu 30 a while back and loved that motor!


If you are referencing the 158 pounds listed on Tohatsu's website, I _believe_ that is for a short shaft with no tilt and trim. Seems I saw 179 pounds somewhere for the short shaft with tilt and trim.


----------



## HPXFLY

I saw it yesterday at ICAST, honestly I didnt get the new boat envy that I normally do when something new comes out it was plain and very very basic. Some may like that but ill take an old whipray over that for the same money.


----------



## Rick88

If I remember right the suzuki is 137#


----------



## Sublime

Rick88 said:


> If I remember right the suzuki is 137#


Their web pages says
137# manual start
143# electric start
163# electric start, power tilt and trim


----------



## Rick88

The tohatsu 50 just keeps lookin better lol


----------



## Finsleft258

Rick88 said:


> Dang my east cape skid was gel and awful
> The gel egret nonskid was bad w staining
> Multiple action crafts over the years (one was mine) staining was bad but the diamond grip holds up forever
> My 98 whip had leatherette gel skid I don't think it counts lol
> 99 whip had 10 yr old awlgrip that had some spots the paint was knocked off the skid particles from use I had it redone when I restored the boat.
> I prefer the awlgrip from my experience and having a boat that Sits uncovered on an open lift most of the time & isn't gonna be exclusively stored in an air conditioned garage and walked on in socks... we drop cast nets on the decks sheepshead fish ding jigheads off the deck etc
> 
> I think the original point was missed that molding the skid into the mold is a cost saver, regardless of preference I don't think anyone would turn down a new HB or any boat for that matter over the nonskid.


Okay, I read the part about the Eldora having molded nonskid vs. spraying. Are you saying that the molded non-skid being a cost saving measure is a bad thing? It's repeatable, which painting is not; it reduces waste (tape, paper, solvents, etc.); it will have a chemical bond with the rest of the laminations behind it (paint is a physical bond).


----------



## Bluwave

Sublime said:


> Their web pages says
> 137# manual start
> 143# electric start
> 163# electric start, power tilt and trim


My suzuki 30hp (short shaft) was 156lbs w/ power tilt and trim. I think the new Tohatsu 60hp is pretty impressive.


----------



## Rick88

Finsleft258 said:


> Okay, I read the part about the Eldora having molded nonskid vs. spraying. Are you saying that the molded non-skid being a cost saving measure is a bad thing? It's repeatable, which painting is not; it reduces waste (tape, paper, solvents, etc.); it will have a chemical bond with the rest of the laminations behind it (paint is a physical bond).


Not a bad thing but upon posting I didn't realize that they were doing molded skid on all of their "new" boats (mine are both early builds) I thought they were doing awlgrip after it was out of the mold so the initial statement was referring to the lower cost of the eldora being attributed to many factors one of which being the molded skid vs more labor intensive painting process.


----------



## fjmaverick

Can someone explain to me why boats still come with galvanized trailers? Especially a hells bay.


----------



## Finsleft258

fjmaverick said:


> Can someone explain to me why boats still come with galvanized trailers? Especially a hells bay.


It's cheaper.


----------



## Zaraspook

Does anyone know what the max hp, passenger/wt is?


----------



## prinjm6

Finsleft258 said:


> It's cheaper.


I would use the words Less expensive, a galv steel trailer will be stronger than aluminum and if you want a removable tongue (not a swing), you dont have to add in support structure to have a removable tongue on a galv vs aluminum. For light boats, a heavier galv trailer may be more ideal when running torsion axles so that when you hit bumps your boat isnt just bouncing like crazy and actually loads the suspension.


----------



## adist

MMessana said:


> I'd agree with you on that. My EC Gladesman's non skid looked terrible. May have not been kept up as well as it should've been though with me being the third owner of it. Then again its a glorified canoe that gets skinny and I didn't really care how it looked since I was a broke college student lol


I'm the 4th owner of my EC Gladesmen and the non skid looks brand new, my cockpit has gel coat and it's all flaking apart (I am also a broke college student lol)


----------



## fjmaverick

prinjm6 said:


> I would use the words Less expensive, a galv steel trailer will be stronger than aluminum and if you want a removable tongue (not a swing), you dont have to add in support structure to have a removable tongue on a galv vs aluminum. For light boats, a heavier galv trailer may be more ideal when running torsion axles so that when you hit bumps your boat isnt just bouncing like crazy and actually loads the suspension.


Are you a boat salesman? I actually buy some of that.


----------



## prinjm6

fjmaverick said:


> Are you a boat salesman? I actually buy some of that.


Nope lol, but there is some truth in what I said (I think). I'm just trying to get a Galv vs Aluminum trailer debate going since we have exhausted non skid choices.


----------



## Zaraspook

Why don’t you keep on topic and some one get the numbers on max hp and pax


----------



## Finsleft258

Zaraspook said:


> Why don’t you keep on topic and some one get the numbers on max hp and pax


The CG is tightening down on manufacturers lately. I'm betting this thing will get a 25-40 rating or lower with 2+1 for passengers.


----------



## Guest

Boat length x transom width factoring in transom height and tiller/console is how hp is determined. Or... running the gauntlet test course. All in the CG bb handbook.


----------



## Finsleft258

Boatbrains said:


> Boat length x transom width factoring in transom height and tiller/console is how hp is determined. Or... running the gauntlet test course. All in the CG bb handbook.


I heard a rumor that they were going to require a design review or engineering documentation for manufacturers that produce over a certain number of units. This was a result of the end-swapping/deaths from some of the Texas style rigs. Have you heard anything about that floating around?


----------



## Guest

Finsleft258 said:


> I heard a rumor that they were going to require a design review or engineering documentation for manufacturers that produce over a certain number of units. This was a result of the end-swapping/deaths from some of the Texas style rigs. Have you heard anything about that floating around?


I haven’t, but wouldn’t discredit it or argue it either. Some of these hulls are tremendously over powered. Triple digit speeds in a bass boat or anything for that matter should be left to professional drivers/operators and not just any joe blow with a wad of cash to blow! The manufacturers get around the formula/calculating by running the boat through a test course. Problem is, my skills are different than yours and yours different from the next and so on. Strap a 150 on any of these 0* or 2* hulls and tell me how she handles!

I know that was a bit of a rant and it wasn’t directed at you or anybody else for that matter.​


----------



## Finsleft258

Boatbrains said:


> I haven’t, but wouldn’t discredit it or argue it either. Some of these hulls are tremendously over powered. Triple digit speeds in a bass boat or anything for that matter should be left to professional drivers/operators and not just any joe blow with a wad of cash to blow! The manufacturers get around the formula/calculating by running the boat through a test course. Problem is, my skills are different than yours and yours different from the next and so on. Strap a 150 on any of these 0* or 2* hulls and tell me how she handles!
> 
> I know that was a bit of a rant and it wasn’t directed at you or anybody else for that matter.​



None taken at all. I fully agree with it frankly. I know this will not be a popular opinion, but a driver's license requires an actual test, and flying a plane requires training AND a TYPE rating. Boats require very little and they all handle a bit differently. I do think it should be more difficult to gain access to pilot one rather than merely open the checkbook. I also think manufacturers should have either:
1) greater responsibility over the quality and safety of what they produce; OR, 
2) greater control over what Joe the dipshit can bolt to the back and power up.


----------



## Rick88

I got a HB CG plate I'll sell ya rated for 3 ppl and 90hp


----------



## devrep

being a tiller the rating will be pretty low. I'd guess 30hp.


----------



## permitchaser

I dont do many long runs. I stand, hang on to the bars around my console, 10 miles at the most. Never sat on my bench seat while driving i like to see where I'm going
my 21 gallon tank wont let me go 80 miles and back even though my Zuke is very efficient


----------



## jonny

fjmaverick said:


> Can someone explain to me why boats still come with galvanized trailers? Especially a hells bay.


All trailers are galvanized. Some just have the important load carrying parts done. Like spring/axle mounts and the axles themselves. Then the rest is aluminum. Having just spent a lot on a old aluminum rebuild. Replacing all the corroded bits. Except for the aluminum cross members. Which are corroded badly. Where the bunk uprights were. I really really like the old galvanized trailers more and more. Especially the hot dipped painted ones from Ramlin. I don’t think it’s all about the upfront savings and them cheaping out. My 01 Guide is still rolling on the original galvanized Ramlin. And will be for many years to come. That aluminum trailer I rebuilt is several years newer. Aluminum trailers have a lot of dissimilar metals holding them together. Combined with a electrical current and saltwater. Leads to a lot of corrosion issues. So they are not as appealing for our uses. All steel and welded is the way to go for me. Welding aluminum greatly weakens it. And you still can never get away from having steel on it for the axles,springs,bolts,ect


----------



## Backcountry 16

Sublime said:


> Their web pages says
> 137# manual start
> 143# electric start
> 163# electric start, power tilt and trim


 That's why I'll be keeping my 115 lbs electric start power trim and tilt short shaft Mercury 25 2 stroke not to mention the torque.


----------



## MariettaMike

I checked out Eldora today, and spoke with HB sales about build options.

Colors: Hull and Cap gelcoat can only be Ice Blue or Matterhorn White. Floor and everything else inside is White.

Power: Yamaha F25 or no engine. (Boat has 40 hp max rating)

Trailer: Galvanized RamLin or no trailer.

That’s pretty much it for the build options. Anything else would be a la carte through service.

Lead time is currently 16 weeks, and they have already sold a few.

Observations:
Rear rod tubes are large enough for putting two fly rods down the same tube. (Maybe three on the top)

Front and rear decks are shorter than Whipray Classic. I also think the gunnels are a little narrower, yet plenty wide enough to walk along. The resulting cockpit is huge.

The no liner floor is thicker and much flatter than the old no liner Whips.

***Forgot to ask about phenolic inserts for casting platform, trolling motor, and bow cleats like the other boats.

If I bought one it would probably be without the F25, and put a Yamaha F40 on it. Then add a custom bench seat with grab bar on the back.


----------



## Finsleft258

jonny said:


> All trailers are galvanized. Some just have the important load carrying parts done. Like spring/axle mounts and the axles themselves. Then the rest is aluminum. Having just spent a lot on a old aluminum rebuild. Replacing all the corroded bits. Except for the aluminum cross members. Which are corroded badly. Where the bunk uprights were. I really really like the old galvanized trailers more and more. Especially the hot dipped painted ones from Ramlin. I don’t think it’s all about the upfront savings and them cheaping out. My 01 Guide is still rolling on the original galvanized Ramlin. And will be for many years to come. That aluminum trailer I rebuilt is several years newer. Aluminum trailers have a lot of dissimilar metals holding them together. Combined with a electrical current and saltwater. Leads to a lot of corrosion issues. So they are not as appealing for our uses. All steel and welded is the way to go for me. Welding aluminum greatly weakens it. And you still can never get away from having steel on it for the axles,springs,bolts,ect


Look at a Rolls Axle and then reevaluate your entire post.


----------



## jonny

Finsleft258 said:


> Look at a Rolls Axle and then reevaluate your entire post.


I don’t see the need. Their website clearly states they use SS hardware and a hot dipped galvanized axle. Plus all the steel stuff like winch and jacks. There is no way to get away from having steel on a aluminum trailer.
Period
Dont get me wrong they make a bad ass trailer. Probably as good as a aluminum can be. One of the worst areas of corrosion on aluminum trailers. Is the bunk brackets. Which they weld on tabs for those and the jack. To save on using steel hardware. Because they know how much of a issue it is.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

2000 Competitor aluminum trailer under my Maverick and it looks new and I dunk it every launch. She gets pressure washed and I spray Kroil, MicroMist or CorrosionX red on all the hardware now and then. Where the galvanized torsion axle meets the aluminum I beam there’s a poly barrier to mitigate dissimilar metal corrosion.


----------



## 4991

jonny said:


> I don’t see the need. Their website clearly states they use SS hardware and a hot dipped galvanized axle. Plus all the steel stuff like winch and jacks. There is no way to get away from having steel on a aluminum trailer.
> Period
> Dont get me wrong they make a bad ass trailer. Probably as good as a aluminum can be. One of the worst areas of corrosion on aluminum trailers. Is the bunk brackets. Which they weld on tabs for those and the jack. To save on using steel hardware. Because they know how much of a issue it is.


Rolls does not use a galvanized axle or any welds for the bunk brackets.


----------



## jonny

dhenderson said:


> Rolls does not use a galvanized axle or any welds for the bunk brackets.


You need to tell them that then. So they can correct their website.


----------



## Rick88




----------



## firecat1981

dhenderson said:


> Rolls does not use a galvanized axle or any welds for the bunk brackets.


Having owned one I can tell you you're wrong. On some of the higher end trailers they use their proprietary suspension that eliminates the axle, but they still use some galvanized components. And yes some of the bunk brackets are welded galvanized steel as well.


----------



## jonny




----------



## jonny

LOL no fight just was making the point that all aluminum trailers are a mix of metals. And are inherent to the issues that come with that. And why I prefer galvanized where I only have to deal with rust. Which you also have to deal with on aluminum trailers. In addition to corrosion issues. I remember some Ramlin aluminum trailers failing from corrosion on the main frames. I will take a all welded and galvanized trailer. Over a bolt together aluminum any day. Some aluminum trailers are better than others. Like Rolls and Ameritrail. This was in reference to post about HB “cheaping out” with a galvanized trailer. Which is not the case. Rolls builds a nice trailer. At a great value compared to others in the $4-6k range. And they do have what appears to be a good torsion axle design. All though the spring rate seems high for a microskiff. But it’s still bolted together like a erector set.


----------



## Capt Lew

That is there cheaper line of trailer. My trailer has the aluminum axle, stainless hubs and no steel.


----------



## Finsleft258

Capt Lew said:


> That is there cheaper line of trailer. My trailer has the aluminum axle, stainless hubs and no steel.


Exactly. Like Jonny has mentioned, and I will admit, there are some items (jacks and winches) that are galvanized or zinc plated steel--they never go underwater though.


----------



## Finsleft258

jonny said:


> LOL no fight just was making the point that all aluminum trailers are a mix of metals. And are inherent to the issues that come with that. And why I prefer galvanized where I only have to deal with rust. Which you also have to deal with on aluminum trailers. In addition to corrosion issues. I remember some Ramlin aluminum trailers failing from corrosion on the main frames. I will take a all welded and galvanized trailer. Over a bolt together aluminum any day. Some aluminum trailers are better than others. Like Rolls and Ameritrail. This was in reference to post about HB “cheaping out” with a galvanized trailer. Which is not the case. Rolls builds a nice trailer. At a great value compared to others in the $4-6k range. And they do have what appears to be a good torsion axle design. All though the spring rate seems high for a microskiff. But it’s still bolted together like a erector set.


I don't think the reference was to HB "cheaping out" but the fact that galvanized trailers are cheaper in general. Ramlin does build a fine product and I don't anyone would say otherwise. It is still less expensive than a quality aluminum trailer.


----------



## Fritz

Not to distract from the cat fight over trailers... I’m looking at the picture of the trim tab on the HB website (fifth picture) and it looks to me like they have the outboard edge pointing down and the inboard edge pointing up.

Am I seeing this right?

I’m guessing that’s for lateral stability in turns, yes?

Remind me, didn’t some Whips have the plates installed upside-down so both edges pointed down?

Any speculation on why they don’t have forward facing rod tubes on the Eldora?


----------



## firecat1981

I've been shopping for trailers lately, and there isn't as big a gap as there used to be. 
When I bought my galvanized continental 8 years ago it was $800 and an aluminum model was $1500.
Now the galvanized are near $1400, but the aluminum model is $1700.
When I asked about the jump they said the popularity of aluminum keeps sales up so the price stayed, but since they don't sell as many galvanized trailers anymore they raised the price to help sway guys the other way.


----------



## Finsleft258

Fritz said:


> Not to distract from the cat fight over trailers... I’m looking at the picture of the trim tab on the HB website (fifth picture) and it looks to me like they have the outboard edge pointing down and the inboard edge pointing up.
> 
> Am I seeing this right?
> 
> I’m guessing that’s for lateral stability in turns, yes?
> 
> Remind me, didn’t some Whips have the plates installed upside-down so both edges pointed down?
> 
> Any speculation on why they don’t have forward facing rod tubes on the Eldora?



The tabs down added "keels" to the boat for just what you said. 

No speculation on the rod tubes.


----------



## devrep

Finsleft258 said:


> I don't think the reference was to HB "cheaping out" but the fact that galvanized trailers are cheaper in general. Ramlin does build a fine product and I don't anyone would say otherwise. It is still less expensive than a quality aluminum trailer.


when I priced a Ramlin galvanized trailer a couple of years ago it was 3500.00.


----------



## Rick88

I can get em for $2500 if anybody needs one  

And great ameratrail pricing also I prefer their aluminum trailers to ramlin personally


----------



## texasag07

Fritz said:


> Any speculation on why they don’t have forward facing rod tubes on the Eldora?


Probably cause to many people complaining how hard it was to get rods in the older marquesa, professional’s etc. Rear facing are so much easier to use for someone. Getting ready to hop on the pointy end, as well as putting in the skiff while on the trailer.


----------



## Myakka Red

texasag07 said:


> Probably cause to many people complaining how hard it was to get rods in the older marquesa, professional’s etc. Rear facing are so much easier to use for someone. Getting ready to hop on the pointy end, as well as putting in the skiff while on the trailer.


>Tubes to the rear compartment are straight pieces of tubing and a cap, easy and simple to manufacture. Fwd tubes require the tubes to be shaped to fit the curvature of the bow and supported to stay that way meaning more labor / steps in manufacturing = more $$$.


----------



## Matts

Rear facing tubes are favorable because your client doesn’t have to come to the rear of the skiff and grab the rod. Just reach Down from the front deck and fish.


----------



## derf1865

fjmaverick said:


> As they say; its _only _money. Right?


They'll print more tomorrow.


----------



## ifsteve

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I’ve resisted it for the last two years but I’m about to order a bench cushion for the rear deck. I turned 28 this year so I’m starting to feel those long runs the next day.


I have bad news for you buddy. You're only 28 and feeling it the next day. Just wait another 10 years or so. You ain't felt nothing yet....LOL


----------



## crboggs

ifsteve said:


> I have bad news for you buddy. You're only 28 and feeling it the next day. Just wait another 10 years or so. You ain't felt nothing yet....LOL


Wait till you're 48...aches and pains are part of the game and proof that you're doing it right!


----------



## ifsteve

crboggs said:


> Wait till you're 48...aches and pains are part of the game and proof that you're doing it right!


Well I have been " doing it right" for a long long time then.....lol.


----------



## Guest

ifsteve said:


> I have bad news for you buddy. You're only 28 and feeling it the next day. Just wait another 10 years or so. You ain't felt nothing yet....LOL





crboggs said:


> Wait till you're 48...aches and pains are part of the game and proof that you're doing it right!





ifsteve said:


> Well I have been " doing it right" for a long long time then.....lol.


All I can say is Amen!


----------



## Matts

Feeling it at 47 and trying to decide if the next skiff will have a backrest or not:-(


----------



## sidelock

Tubes facing the rear compartment are more practical for switching rods quickly from the casting deck. A good example is when you are in the back country targeting snook with an eight weight and you stumble upon a three digit laid up tarpon close to the boat. You don't have to walk to the back of the boat to switch rods and potentially spooking the fish. Well designed skiffs especially the MEGA $$$ type should have tubes in both the bow and the stern in my opinion, PVC is cheap and the amount of labor putting them in is minimal.


----------



## sjrobin

The rod tubes take up rigging and storage space in the rear compartments. That is why HB puts the tubes forward. Port side is possible but the fuel line and filter are in the port hatch. And besides, no one takes a fly rod out of any bulkhead quickly. You still have to step down into the cockpit. Chittum skiffs rod tubes are rear facing and staggered if you buy a skiff based on your preferred rod tube lay out.


----------



## el9surf

Will it do ok fishing for beach tarpon after I hang a 60 and add a 20 gallon fuel cell? Also thinking about a 24v tm system so I don't have to pole the grass flats. Asking for a friend....


----------



## Capnredfish

And inserting rods into a straight tube is less stress against eyes. Which depending on eyes design could make a difference.


----------



## Fritz

I have another question... about that full bench cushion. My thinking is this is a one or two man skiff and the second guy needs to be on a cooler or, better still, a bean bag in the middle.

I’ve run tiller skiffs for years and am a fan, but having someone sit beside me while I try to maneuver seems like a bad idea.

Thoughts?


----------



## Matts

sjrobin said:


> The rod tubes take up rigging and storage space in the rear compartments. That is why HB puts the tubes forward. Port side is possible but the fuel line and filter are in the port hatch. And besides, no one takes a fly rod out of any bulkhead quickly. You still have to step down into the cockpit. Chittum skiffs rod tubes are forward facing and staggered if you buy a skiff based on your preferred rod tube lay out.


Chittum is actually moving to rear facing tubes, but of course are custom so can modify.
Best,
Matt


----------



## Matts

el9surf said:


> Will it do ok fishing for beach tarpon after I hang a 60 and add a 20 gallon fuel cell? Also thinking about a 24v tm system so I don't have to pole the grass flats. Asking for a friend....


Surely you jest


----------



## TheAdamsProject

Matts said:


> Chittum is actually moving to rear facing tubes, but of course are custom so can modify.
> Best,
> Matt


Correct, I had them do aft facing and in a stair stepped setup. Really happy with them and would never go back. HB can do them aft facing too as well as a mixture. Eldora looks sharp and clean and also glad they went aft with the rod holders, to me that is ideal.


----------



## Zaraspook

crboggs said:


> Wait till you're 48...aches and pains are part of the game and proof that you're doing it right!


Get the cushions. I’ve been sight fishing since before they invented poling platforms. I used to pole from the top of my Mercury engine on my Hewes Bonefisher. 

I’ve learned over the years that if something can make your life better, just do it. Bye the way, you 48 year old youngsters make me laugh.


----------



## Pole Position

Fritz said:


> I have another question... about that full bench cushion. My thinking is this is a one or two man skiff and the second guy needs to be on a cooler or, better still, a bean bag in the middle.
> 
> I’ve run tiller skiffs for years and am a fan, but having someone sit beside me while I try to maneuver seems like a bad idea.
> 
> Thoughts?


Having a tiller extension that is properly sized will take care of that problem while trim tabs should handle any weight distribution issues, imho


----------



## rsm13

jonny said:


> All trailers are galvanized. Some just have the important load carrying parts done. Like spring/axle mounts and the axles themselves. Then the rest is aluminum. Having just spent a lot on a old aluminum rebuild. Replacing all the corroded bits. Except for the aluminum cross members. Which are corroded badly. Where the bunk uprights were. I really really like the old galvanized trailers more and more. Especially the hot dipped painted ones from Ramlin. I don’t think it’s all about the upfront savings and them cheaping out. My 01 Guide is still rolling on the original galvanized Ramlin. And will be for many years to come. That aluminum trailer I rebuilt is several years newer. Aluminum trailers have a lot of dissimilar metals holding them together. Combined with a electrical current and saltwater. Leads to a lot of corrosion issues. So they are not as appealing for our uses. All steel and welded is the way to go for me. Welding aluminum greatly weakens it. And you still can never get away from having steel on it for the axles,springs,bolts,ect


Please tell me where the galvanized parts are on this trailer.

http://www.rollsaxle.com

I have a Rolls Axle Trailer on my Whipray and there is not a single galvanized piece on it.
ZERO.

There is nothing wrong with a galvanized trailer btw. Maintenance, as usual, is the key to everything with salt.


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## devrep

28 years old and feeling it. wow. more work or more exercise?


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## Backcountry 16

52 here and did 45 miles yesterday in the gladesman and I feel fine today. But then again I'm an ac guy who has probably climbed as many steps on a ladder than someone climbing Mount Everest


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## Chasintail22

prinjm6 said:


> I would use the words Less expensive, a galv steel trailer will be stronger than aluminum and if you want a removable tongue (not a swing), you dont have to add in support structure to have a removable tongue on a galv vs aluminum. For light boats, a heavier galv trailer may be more ideal when running torsion axles so that when you hit bumps your boat isnt just bouncing like crazy and actually loads the suspension.


I had the original 2001 galvanized Ram Lin on my waterman when I bought her in 2014. Then switched it over to a 2009 aluminum Ram Lin trailer (from a Waterman 18’ HB demo). As much as I love the look of the aluminum, you are spot on that my skiff isn’t truly heavy enough to allow the torsion axle to compress/rebound as it should, meaning my boat bounces a good bit on bumps. 

Got to check out the Eldora at icast this week and confirmed most of my initial thoughts. The one thing I hadn’t known was they cut the front deck shorter, which is something I disagree with. The large front deck on all HBs has always been a major selling point. Plus this cut away even more storage under the deck. That portable gas tank takes up a bunch of room and then you can basically stuff things like life jackets up around it but not much more. The hatch on the rear bulkhead gives access to all of the room under the rear deck; my only issue I see is if any of your stuff gets to each back corner, good luck being able to reach it. It also seems like they’re really pushing hard to sell the skiff “as is” without much room for any customization, something I can see being an issue as that’s always a major selling point for building this type of boat in the first place obviously. Now the rear facing tubes, great choice. Should all come standard with them! 

I guess what I’m saying is, I prefer the overall features/layout of my 01 Waterman over the new skiff. But I’m sure they’ll sell plenty as they already have taken a handful of orders. Will look forward to seeing them on the water!


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## crboggs

Rear facing tubes all the way...will never have it another way...


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## sjrobin

Chasintail22 said:


> I had the original 2001 galvanized Ram Lin on my waterman when I bought her in 2014. Then switched it over to a 2009 aluminum Ram Lin trailer (from a Waterman 18’ HB demo). As much as I love the look of the aluminum, you are spot on that my skiff isn’t truly heavy enough to allow the torsion axle to compress/rebound as it should, meaning my boat bounces a good bit on bumps.
> 
> Got to check out the Eldora at icast this week and confirmed most of my initial thoughts. The one thing I hadn’t known was they cut the front deck shorter, which is something I disagree with. The large front deck on all HBs has always been a major selling point. Plus this cut away even more storage under the deck. That portable gas tank takes up a bunch of room and then you can basically stuff things like life jackets up around it but not much more. The hatch on the rear bulkhead gives access to all of the room under the rear deck; my only issue I see is if any of your stuff gets to each back corner, good luck being able to reach it. It also seems like they’re really pushing hard to sell the skiff “as is” without much room for any customization, something I can see being an issue as that’s always a major selling point for building this type of boat in the first place obviously. Now the rear facing tubes, great choice. Should all come standard with them!
> 
> I guess what I’m saying is, I prefer the overall features/layout of my 01 Waterman over the new skiff. But I’m sure they’ll sell plenty as they already have taken a handful of orders. Will look forward to seeing them on the water!


Heavier galvanized trailers with light duty torsion springs are better for transporting light weight skiffs over long distances and rough roads. The designed purpose of the trailer.


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## Rick88

I heard chittum is building a carbon fiber trailer with small wings that just glides behind the truck once you get over 25mph


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## jonny

Unfortunately my last two production skiffs are forward facing. If it has to be only one way aft is the way to go. And the forward can be “extra” rod storage. The skiff I just built has aft. But there is one draw back to aft tubes. They can hold water. Due to usually being down hill. So don’t store your rods in them. Always remove and rinse. I used to squirt fresh water up in mine at the car wash. Just to get any salt out.


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## sidelock

sjrobin said:


> Chittum skiffs rod tubes are rear facing and staggered if you buy a skiff based on your preferred rod tube lay out.


Really ! you can't be serious. I may not buy a skiff based on my preferred rod tube lay out but if on the other hand the tires on the trailer its sitting on happen to be a little low on air, now that would be unequivocally a deal breaker right there.
As far as having to step down into the cockpit to pull a rod out of a rear facing tube, I would agree but only if I were 300lb+, fortunately I'm not and kneeling down on the deck and setting one rod down on the cockpit and reaching under the gunnel for another is not an issue and I can do that with my eyes closed. All the bungee cords on the rod racks are only employed while under power and underway and they come off for quick access once the engine shuts down.


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## el9surf

Having owned both aluminum and
galvanized ramlins I can say the galvanized is a smoother ride. Aluminum definitely looks way better though. Time will tell how the galvanized holds up, doesn't really get dunked much.


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## Matts

Well since we’ve effectively hi jacked this to trailers, I’m Going with black raptor coated galvanized for my next trailer. Anyone have any feedback on the raptor coating process?
Best,
Matt


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## Caleb.Esparza

Fritz said:


> I have another question... about that full bench cushion. My thinking is this is a one or two man skiff and the second guy needs to be on a cooler or, better still, a bean bag in the middle.
> 
> I’ve run tiller skiffs for years and am a fan, but having someone sit beside me while I try to maneuver seems like a bad idea.
> 
> Thoughts?


I run a beanbag in the cockpit for my passenger much of the time and I have heard nothing but good things from any of them. Never was a fan of having the passenger sitting next to me in the tiller skiff. When I eventually add a bench cushion, it will be full length but just for uniformity.


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## Caleb.Esparza

devrep said:


> 28 years old and feeling it. wow. more work or more exercise?


I have spent the last 9 years in the military and my day job involves a lot of time in small craft regardless of sea state so my 28 is more of a well seasoned 48 if we are comparing to your average person. My frequent long trips in a bare bones tiller skiff are just an added bonus.


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## Backcountry 16

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I have spent the last 9 years in the military and my day job involves a lot of time in small craft regardless of sea state so my 28 is more of a well seasoned 48 if we are comparing to your average person. My frequent long trips in a bare bones tiller skiff are just an added bonus.


Thank you for your service Caleb.


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## FMH

In reference to seating on the aft deck in a tiller skiff, when I have a third person onboard my 06 16 Waterman I sit atop the poling tower with my feet on the deck. I operate the tiller from up there with no problem. I also have a small box mounted under the starboard side of the tower lid that has trim tab switches and motor trim switch so that my right hand can easily reach them. The other passengers sit on the cooler in the center and on the port side of the aft deck. Works out nicely. Must wear the kill switch lanyard as always just in case...……..


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## Half Shell

I flew Army helos for 23 years and many hours of that wearing body armor. Now at 48, I'm reminded every morning why I haven't downsized my 21' Egret to a poleable skiff.

I used to have a dipped steel trailer for wakeboard boat that had a single 5,000lb axle. My wakeboarding days are behind me but I would love to have that trailer back.

and yes, rear facing beats forward facing rod tubes but does that interfere with hatch storage in the rear deck?


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## devrep

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I have spent the last 9 years in the military and my day job involves a lot of time in small craft regardless of sea state so my 28 is more of a well seasoned 48 if we are comparing to your average person. My frequent long trips in a bare bones tiller skiff are just an added bonus.


Caleb, thank you for your service.


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## Guest

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I have spent the last 9 years in the military and my day job involves a lot of time in small craft regardless of sea state so my 28 is more of a well seasoned 48 if we are comparing to your average person. My frequent long trips in a bare bones tiller skiff are just an added bonus.


Thank you for your service!


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## sjrobin

sidelock said:


> Really ! you can't be serious. I may not buy a skiff based on my preferred rod tube lay out but if on the other hand the tires on the trailer its sitting on happen to be a little low on air, now that would be unequivocally a deal breaker right there.
> As far as having to step down into the cockpit to pull a rod out of a rear facing tube, I would agree but only if I were 300lb+, fortunately I'm not and kneeling down on the deck and setting one rod down on the cockpit and reaching under the gunnel for another is not an issue and I can do that with my eyes closed. All the bungee cords on the rod racks are only employed while under power and underway and they come off for quick access once the engine shuts down.


Yeah I am serious. Who is going to safely place the rod in your hand back in the holder after you pull the rod from the front deck? I have fished off a quite a few forward facing rod holders and my point is as long as the rods are stored with less chance of damage by shifting gear, etc, it does not matter which way they face. Some skiffs have rod holders where the rods are not as well protected.


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## sidelock

sjrobin said:


> Yeah I am serious. Who is going to safely place the rod in your hand back in the holder after you pull the rod from the front deck? I have fished off a quite a few forward facing rod holders and my point is as long as the rods are stored with less chance of damage by shifting gear, etc, it does not matter which way they face. Some skiffs have rod holders where the rods are not as well protected.


What's so difficult about taking rods out and putting them in while kneeling on the deck, unless physically limited or challenged of course ? The starboard side rod tubes on a HB Professional face backwards due to the side console and I do it all the time !


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## devrep

I guess you might miss the lifetime shot at a fish while changing rods? I should just sell mine now.


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## devrep

as far as galvanized trailers go, its all how they are taken care of. the galvanized ramlin that came with my old waterman was hammered with rust when I got it. pretty sure it was seldom or never rinsed off to get in that condition. On the other hand the old galvanized continental that came with my 94 SilverKing is about perfect. I rinse both of my trailers well when I get home, galvanized and aluminum.


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## Caleb.Esparza

I didn’t mention my occupation for the thank you’s but I appreciate the support from all of you. In all reality, I owe the Navy far more than I’ll ever be able to repay strictly based on the life experience, and the ability to call some real life giants brothers, friends, and mentors. 

Secondly, I will never own a skiff without fear facing tubes from this point forward. Ignoring that feature is one of the very few regrets I have during the build process of my cayo.


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## DuckNut

27 pages and nobody has placed an order for one with an aluminum trailer?


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## jonny

Matts said:


> Well since we’ve effectively hi jacked this to trailers, I’m Going with black raptor coated galvanized for my next trailer. Anyone have any feedback on the raptor coating process?
> Best,
> Matt


I’m about to do one of my Land Cruisers in white Raptor. There has been quite a few done. And it holds up well and does not stain as others. Not that black is a issue. Check Youtube there’s plenty of vids


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## Rick88

I sold both of my hells bays because of the forward facing rod holders.... I could have changed em but dev and backcountry would have come and roughed me up if I spent anymore money on that whipray


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## Zika

Rick88 said:


> I sold both of my hells bays because of the forward facing rod holders.... I could have changed em but dev and backcountry would have come and roughed me up if I spent anymore money on that whipray


Come on, fess up. We know you won the PowerBall.


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## Rick88

I'd be battling Steve's collection if I won the powerball


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## firecat1981

Maybe I missed the satire or actual explanation, but why do you like rear facing rod holders? My first skiff had them and I hated it, the reels toook every bounce of the bow even when we bungeed them down and any water that got in the tubes just sat in there.


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## Zika

Steve must have won the PowerBall and MegaMillions.


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## KnotHome

I saw the Eldora at ICAST. My take away was that if this wasn't Hells Bay, all that would be heard was talk of a piss poor layout, lack of dry storage, and how cheap it's finished. Hard pass.


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## Guest

KnotHome said:


> I saw the Eldora at ICAST. My take away was that if this wasn't Hells Bay, all that would be heard was talk of a piss poor layout, lack of dry storage, and how cheap it's finished. Hard pass.


Prepare to be FLAMED!


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## Half Shell

KnotHome said:


> I saw the Eldora at ICAST. My take away was that if this wasn't Hells Bay, all that would be heard was talk of a piss poor layout, lack of dry storage, and how cheap it's finished. Hard pass.


...and that is the reaction I said it would get 350 posts ago and why it's a strategic mistake for HB.


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## KurtActual

Half Shell said:


> ...and that is the reaction I said it would get 350 posts ago and why it's a strategic mistake for HB.


How big of a mistake could it be? If they're using an old whipray mold like CM says, they cant have too much capital tied up in this.
Not like they're pumping out Eldoras to sit on the lot for people to drive by and shop from...


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## Sublime

Fritz said:


> I have another question... about that full bench cushion. My thinking is this is a one or two man skiff and the second guy needs to be on a cooler or, better still, a bean bag in the middle.
> 
> I’ve run tiller skiffs for years and am a fan, but having someone sit beside me while I try to maneuver seems like a bad idea.
> 
> Thoughts?


Yep, have had both ways. The BT I had we both sat on coolers. Hard turns to starboard would find me putting the tiller handle in someone's face. The Spear in my picture was obviously great for passenger seating and for me having something to hold on to, but I hated the space all that took up. My build will be back to the two boxes to sit on and a WIDE open cockpit.


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## Fishshoot

Boat builders are gonna build boats and people are gonna hate em and love em. To each his own. We are pretty lucky to have so many choices!


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## crboggs

KnotHome said:


> I saw the Eldora at ICAST. My take away was that if this wasn't Hells Bay, all that would be heard was talk of a piss poor layout, lack of dry storage, and how cheap it's finished. Hard pass.


So you're saying its designed to stalk fish more than to impress at the sand bar?


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## Bryson Turner

sjrobin said:


> Heavier galvanized trailers with light duty torsion springs are better for transporting light weight skiffs over long distances and rough roads. The designed purpose of the trailer.


Hit a pot hole on the Turnpike with the Eldora on an Alum. trailer and tell me it doesnt catch air. As much as I hate Galv trailers. That boat is too lite to be on anything else. I dont think they were trying to go the cheap route by offering a galv trailer


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## Half Shell

KurtActual said:


> How big of a mistake could it be? If they're using an old whipray mold like CM says, they cant have too much capital tied up in this.
> Not like they're pumping out Eldoras to sit on the lot for people to drive by and shop from...


The Eldora will sell, that's not my point. Go back a few hundred posts if you really care why I believe it's mistake.


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## HBFanatic

They are listening to this post. They are going to put one on an alum trailer with larger front deck and hatches The Elwhipo


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## jmrodandgun

crboggs said:


> So you're saying its designed to stalk fish more than to impress at the sand bar?


You can stalk fish and not impress people for a lot less than 30g's.


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## HPXFLY

KnotHome said:


> I saw the Eldora at ICAST. My take away was that if this wasn't Hells Bay, all that would be heard was talk of a piss poor layout, lack of dry storage, and how cheap it's finished. Hard pass.


I said the same thing, those 30k refurbished whips look good sitting next to that thing. 

Ill be the first to say I thought it was going to be great.. A new whipray at a decent price, big let down. ill just keep running my old junk for another 20 years until I get a chittum


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## csnaspuck

I was away for a week and I don't want to read the 10 pages since I last viewed this but lets say the Eldora starts selling like hot cakes, do you think that will drive other higher end manufactures to do somethings similar......um....chittum?


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## ascentone

Zaraspook said:


> I’ve learned over the years that if something can make your life better, just do it. Bye the way, you 48 year old youngsters make me laugh.





Fishshoot said:


> Boat builders are gonna build boats and people are gonna hate em and love em. To each his own. We are pretty lucky to have so many choices!


Both well stated!


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## crboggs

jmrodandgun said:


> You can stalk fish and not impress people for a lot less than 30g's.


Well...even a Cayo 173 goes for ~$30k these days right...if they ever made another one?

Bumped into a friend at the ramp on Sunday and he described the Eldora is a Hells Bay exterior (hull / deck) with a Spear interior (barebones cockpit and storage). This was based on his seeing one first hand and while he was leaning on my Glades X.

The general consensus amongst the skiff junkies at the ramp, following that review was summed up as..."HB needs to offer a tunnel version!"


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## bryson

crboggs said:


> Bumped into a friend at the ramp on Sunday and he described the Eldora is a Hells Bay exterior (hull / deck) with a Spear interior (barebones cockpit and storage). This was based on his seeing the boat at iCast and while he was leaning on my Glades X.


This is basically what I'm going for with my Conchfish. A Morejohn hull design, but the simple layout of a Spear skiff. Fit and finish TBD  ...but the current plan is Hell's Bay quality or better.

I can definitely see the market for the Eldora, although it may be a little niche. Like someone else pointed out -- they already have the majority of the tooling for it, so they don't have a ton to lose. As for the fit and finish, well I haven't seen the boat yet. If they can keep it HB quality, and keep the profit good by limiting options (cookie-cutter skiffs), they'll be in a good place. If they risk their reputation due to sub-par finishes (or warranty issues due to poor QC), then I agree it's probably a bad call to introduce it.


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## jmrodandgun

crboggs said:


> Well...even a Cayo 173 goes for ~$30k these days right...if they ever made another one?


$30k? Maybe if it's loaded to the tits. The most basic 173's packages were a hell of a lot less than $30k and you got more power, a fully finished cockpit with finished hatches, an aluminum tank and aluminum trailer


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## Rick88

A top of the line aluminum trailer those ameratrail are the nicest


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## HBFanatic

jmrodandgun said:


> $30k? Maybe if it's loaded to the tits. The most basic 173's packages were a hell of a lot less than $30k and you got more power, a fully finished cockpit with finished hatches, an aluminum tank and aluminum trailer


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## el9surf

I would personally take a tricked out ecc glide or that new lagoon 16 for the money.


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## DBStoots

bryson said:


> This is basically what I'm going for with my Conchfish. A Morejohn hull design, but the simple layout of a Spear skiff. Fit and finish TBD  ...but the current plan is Hell's Bay quality or better.
> 
> I can definitely see the market for the Eldora, although it may be a little niche. Like someone else pointed out -- they already have the majority of the tooling for it, so they don't have a ton to lose. As for the fit and finish, well I haven't seen the boat yet. If they can keep it HB quality, and keep the profit good by limiting options (cookie-cutter skiffs), they'll be in a good place. If they risk their reputation due to sub-par finishes (or warranty issues due to poor QC), then I agree it's probably a bad call to introduce it.


Look forward to seeing that!


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## Sublime

My build plan on my Conchfish is

1) floats
2) simple interior
3) no gunnels
4) was thinking about a 20 ft paint job, but might upgrade to a 15ft job


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## DuckNut

Sublime said:


> My build plan on my Conchfish is
> 
> 1) floats
> 2) simple interior
> 3) no gunnels
> 4) was thinking about a 20 ft paint job, but might upgrade to a 15ft job


With that HB decal set I just mailed you it will be one beautiful skiff.


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## Xcapnjoe

Chris Morejohn said:


> View attachment 81854
> 
> I weighed then around 155 lbs....so I stood way out on the bow to counteract Flips size. Flips wife Diane took this picture.
> View attachment 81856
> 
> My wife Rachel took this picture of the 3 of us early one morning off a small dirt boat ramp in Mimms. No I am not in a mud hole, just short. We are not cheating by pushing the bow down to get the stern up. This was the good ole days of showing the skiff world that something new was out there.
> Now that Hal’s name is erased from HB history I guess I will be next.
> View attachment 81850
> 
> Eldora/Whipray
> View attachment 81852
> 
> Eldora at the top and the original Whipray here with a modern engine fully rigged.
> View attachment 81846
> 
> View attachment 81848
> 
> Being the guy that designed the Whipray skiff hull and built the original plugs and molds I know what she looks like. The Eldora is a Whipray hull built with no hatches. Look at the green skiffs bow right under the towing eyebolt, now look at the white Eldoras bow in the same position where the Chines meet. See how the Chines match up the same with the slight unevenness right at the bow. Same mold used for both skiffs.
> The Eldora is floating with the CNC trim tilt and the 25 just where all the original Whiprays floated with a full deck, hatches and floor with the 25 hp 2 stroke Mercs we used to sell on them.
> Frank and Liz Steel of the Titusville Fly Shop ordered hull #3 with a side console and put a Yamaha 30 2 stroke on her. Frank said if she did not float in the 3-1/2” we advertised then he would not pay for the skiff. We went out for the test ride together in the bay with his wife Liz and a potato masher frank provided with a 3-1/2” mark on its side. Frank hung over the bow while I poled over a hard sand bottom so he could mash down and check the draft as we slid over the sandy bar as advertised.
> Franks skiff has just come on the market for sale recently.
> 
> I am so happy to see that my 22 year old design is still held in such high regard as to reinvent it again under a new name.
> 
> My CONCHFISH 16 design is an updated version of this proven classic design with many detail difference’s that make The CONCHFISH a better up-to-date small skiff design.
> 
> HBBWs will do well in the pricing they are quoting but what you will see is that people will want one at that price but with real hatches and lockers.
> 
> Nothing new here folks.


Chris,

I gave that skiff one whiff and knew it was a Whipray/Waterman.
I started out with the 16" Waterman in '01 then y'all built me the 18" in '03.
When I called the shop they wouldn't say if it was a new mold or based off of something old. That was odd.

Now I know why.

I still have that ugly dead dull grass green Waterman. It's a damn champ!
After all these years and the thousands of upgrades in the skiff world it's still the best.

And I say that as a guy that got a Glades Skiff for 10k from Chris after Brian ripped me off for 22k on that Cape Sable fiasco. I get offers all the time to buy the Waterman.
Not a chance.

You are never falling out of grace in my mind, bud.

~ Joe


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