# TFO Axiom II-X or Mangrove Coast 11-12 wt for GT and other large reef species? TFO reel to match?



## ArabianFlyCaster (Dec 20, 2021)

I live in Saudi Arabia and I just broke the tip off my Axiom II-X 5 wt. Since I am ordering a new tip from half way around the world I thought I might as well order a new rod/reel as well (to economize on shipping costs). For a while now I have been looking at 11-12 wt rods for targeting GTs and other large reef species. Having trouble deciding between the TFO Axiom II-x and the new Mangrove Coast. Any thoughts? Does TFO make any reels that would be a good match for an 11-12 wt?


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## CAEX (Oct 29, 2021)

I have no experience fishing for GTs (scheduled trips have been cancelled) and only limited experience with those rods (I've cast the Axiom II-X in the 8 wt and was impressed), but from what I've read about fishing for GTs and the design of those rods if buying blind and those were my choices I would go with the Mangrove Coast (more moderate action, or at least less fast/stiff).

As for reels, it looks like TFO's big reel is the Power. I know nothing about it. While I'm hesitant to dismiss something without handling it, if buying blind it would not be my choice especially at $429 USD. I don't know if it's possible to find where you are, but I would look for a used reel like an Abel Super 12 or a Tibor Gulfstream, or possibly a Shilton SL. If buying new and not wanting to break the bank, I would take a good look at the Danielsson HD (buy direct from Sweden). Good luck to you.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

For the reel in that approximate price range, I'd strongly consider the Redington Grande. About $330, built like a tank and holds more backing than you'll need other than chasing billfish. No doubt, for GT and other similarly pissed off fish, I'd want an Abel, Tibor, Mako, Shilton reel for the proven durability but you'll pay serious money for any of those. If you are going to chase those fish with any regularity, I'd suggest a big upgrade in the reel. Of the two TFO rods, I'd go with the Axiom II-x 12wt.


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## dtaylo1066 (Sep 28, 2021)

Good timing on your Q. I cast the Axiom II-X and Mangrove Coast with BVK SD III reel in 7 wt. at the Denver Fly Fishing Show yesterday in Colorado. Two very different rods. II-X is a very fast rod with some tip softness -- resulting in tight loops and high line speed but requires some casting focus and work. An excellent rod if you wish a fast action. The Mangrove Coast is a medium fast with much, much more bend into the lower section of the rod. Requires slower rhythm to the cast, but still powerful. Loops are not as tight but nor line speed as high but you can still punch out a lot of line with no issues. To me the MC felt more sensitive and in swing weight/flex less work/effort to cast. It was easier on my elbow in which I have some tendonitis. I have purchased the Mangrove Coast and a BVK SD III (7,8,9) reel. The reel is very light for its size with a strong drag and large arbor. TFO makes a BVK SD III + reel for maybe 9-10, 11 weight. Great reel for the $. Good looking, also. Not sure if you can put a 12 wt on the III +. I have lawn casted tthe Mangrove Coast with a 7-wt SA Anadro line (heavy head and long taper) and it bombs it out there just fine. One false cast and let her rip -- zoom. Does well with a Rio Gold 7-wt also, which is a much lighter line. MC more senstive and supple in close than the II-X. Both are excellent rods and solid value, especially the MC. Good color blanks on each IMHO. If you want to complement your II-X with a slower, medium-action, fuller-flexing rod I think the Mangrove Coast would do the trick nicely, and at $300 is a true bargain.


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## richarde206 (Sep 9, 2021)

dtaylo1066 said:


> I have purchased the Mangrove Coast and a BVK SD III (7,8,9) reel. The reel is very light for its size with a strong drag and large arbor. TFO makes a BVK SD III + reel for maybe 9-10, 11 weight. Great reel for the $. Good looking, also. Not sure if you can put a 12 wt on the III +.


Thanks for that input on the BVK SD reel! I haven't seen/handled one but, by the numbers, it sure sounds like a terrific reel and value (words often used with TFO products). How much have you used the reel? I am interested in whatever info you have to share! Thanks in advance!


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## dtaylo1066 (Sep 28, 2021)

It's winter in Colorado, so I have only used the TFO reel when casting my 7-wt in the yard or park. But the TFO BVK SD III reel appears to be well made, is rather light in each of its size categories, has a sealed drag system, a good sized arbor, and is aesthetically pleasing. I chose it over a Cheeky as it was lighter, and also considered the Orvis Hydros. I think all are pretty good in the less than $300 category. I will use this rod/reel combo mostly for large Western river trout or Steelhead fishing, and hopefully an effort or two in the salt.


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## ArabianFlyCaster (Dec 20, 2021)

Thanks for all the responses! In the end I decided to downsize to a 10 wt and went with the the Mangrove Coast and the NTR IV reel. A 10 wt should be plenty of rod for everything I expect to encounter (except really large GTs). I went with the Mangrove Coast over the Axiom II-X as I am hoping that the Mangrove Coast will be a little more forgiving to cast when fatigue sets in. Will try to remember to post a picture of the first fish I catch on the new setup here!


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I won't hold back on this one. I would not own a TFO if I was fishing for Geets or large reef fish. They are break happy rods.


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## ArabianFlyCaster (Dec 20, 2021)

ifsteve said:


> I won't hold back on this one. I would not own a TFO if I was fishing for Geets or large reef fish. They are break happy rods.


That's good to know: I will soon be getting some first-hand experience and will be sure to report back with a picture of a broken rod (if that happens).


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

ifsteve said:


> I won't hold back on this one. I would not own a TFO if I was fishing for Geets or large reef fish. They are break happy rods.


Steve, so are you talking about ALL TFO rods, or just the BVK or one other rod? How many TFO rods have you broken?

Almost all rod breakages are user error. They are designed to bend far more than almost all fishing situations if they are handled correctly.






Furthermore, fighting a big fish in shallow water, I would think that (fighting the fish properly) you shouldn't even have that much bend in the rod. 

Disclaimers: I have no experience breaking a rod while fishing a fish. I am religious about not touching the rod blank above the handle when fighting a fish. I have never fished for GTs and probably never will.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Personally I broke 2 TFOs in a 10 minute span and most certainly they were rod failures. On the bow of my skiff there have been 5 rods broken. One was my SaltHD and probably operator error. The other 4 were TFOs. In fact a buddy got a new TFO and we hit a spot for redfish on the way home that day. First day he had used the rod. I used to call the spot the "on the way home spot" which is self explanatory, Kapow ferrule failure.

My buddy asked me if he could give it a better name so I said sure what do you have in mind? He responded how about POSTFO? It took me a second to figure it out POS TFO. LOL. So had a different buddy out the other day and told him that story. You can guess what happened to his TFO that very day.

So bottom line is its a small sample size for sure but I won't own one regardless of how good their warranty is. Other guys mileage may vary. For budget rods I prefer Echo but then I have really limited experience with them so who knows.

But my original point was simply that the bigger the rod weight the less I like TFO.


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## ArabianFlyCaster (Dec 20, 2021)

ifsteve said:


> Personally I broke 2 TFOs in a 10 minute span and most certainly they were rod failures. On the bow of my skiff there have been 5 rods broken. One was my SaltHD and probably operator error. The other 4 were TFOs. In fact a buddy got a new TFO and we hit a spot for redfish on the way home that day. First day he had used the rod. I used to call the spot the "on the way home spot" which is self explanatory, Kapow ferrule failure.
> 
> My buddy asked me if he could give it a better name so I said sure what do you have in mind? He responded how about POSTFO? It took me a second to figure it out POS TFO. LOL. So had a different buddy out the other day and told him that story. You can guess what happened to his TFO that very day.
> 
> ...


With that kind of personal experience I can understand why you would not want to own another TFO. Do you recall the rod sizes on those broken TFOs? Where they all 10+?


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## BrandonFox (May 14, 2013)

ifsteve said:


> Personally I broke 2 TFOs in a 10 minute span and most certainly they were rod failures. On the bow of my skiff there have been 5 rods broken. One was my SaltHD and probably operator error. The other 4 were TFOs. In fact a buddy got a new TFO and we hit a spot for redfish on the way home that day. First day he had used the rod. I used to call the spot the "on the way home spot" which is self explanatory, Kapow ferrule failure.
> 
> My buddy asked me if he could give it a better name so I said sure what do you have in mind? He responded how about POSTFO? It took me a second to figure it out POS TFO. LOL. So had a different buddy out the other day and told him that story. You can guess what happened to his TFO that very day.
> 
> ...



Interesting. Sucks for sure. Maybe just bad luck.

I've fished TFO exclusively (paying full retail, no freebies) in everything from a 3wt-12wt for now 12 years and have broken 0 rods. Trout to tuna to tarpon. And I truly treat my gear like crap... ex: my rods ride in the bed of my truck (in one piece) at highway speeds for an hour or two at a time.

They are not the nicest rods in the world, but they are the best bang for your buck/warranty combo out there. Fortunate to have never needed the warranty part, yet. 

Buy the rod. Save on shipping. Go fish. If it breaks, it breaks. If it doesnt, it doesnt.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

ifsteve said:


> Personally I broke 2 TFOs in a 10 minute span and most certainly they were rod failures. On the bow of my skiff there have been 5 rods broken. One was my SaltHD and probably operator error. The other 4 were TFOs. In fact a buddy got a new TFO and we hit a spot for redfish on the way home that day. First day he had used the rod. I used to call the spot the "on the way home spot" which is self explanatory, Kapow ferrule failure.
> 
> My buddy asked me if he could give it a better name so I said sure what do you have in mind? He responded how about POSTFO? It took me a second to figure it out POS TFO. LOL. So had a different buddy out the other day and told him that story. You can guess what happened to his TFO that very day.
> 
> ...



That's certainly a lot of issues. Even if the sample size was bigger, that's still what I would consider to be a lot of failures.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

ArabianFlyCaster said:


> With that kind of personal experience I can understand why you would not want to own another TFO. Do you recall the rod sizes on those broken TFOs? Where they all 10+?


I broke a 10 and a 12.
The other 4 broken while on my skiff were an 8, 9, and 2 10s.


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## spc7669 (Apr 15, 2015)

I fished for GT’s one day in Fiji, so I can only go off that.
If I won the lottery and was going back next week, it would be with a 13wt, maybe a Colton or TFO Bluewater, and a Tibor Pacific, or equivalent Abel, Shilton etc. 
My buddy, on conventional, broke off 5 fish before he finally got one to the boat.








That fish kicked his butt.
I was blindcasting 600 grain sinking line for hours. It was miserable. I finally caught one on conventional about half the size of his. It was a handful.
I don’t know how similar your conditions are to what I had, but I wouldn’t go after GTs under gunned at all.


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## ArabianFlyCaster (Dec 20, 2021)

spc7669 said:


> I fished for GT’s one day in Fiji, so I can only go off that.
> If I won the lottery and was going back next week, it would be with a 13wt, maybe a Colton or TFO Bluewater, and a Tibor Pacific, or equivalent Abel, Shilton etc.
> My buddy, on conventional, broke off 5 fish before he finally got one to the boat.
> View attachment 196538
> ...


Nice catch! In my home waters there are a lot of GTs of varying sizes with the largest encountered so far being about 1m and in the 20-30 kg weight range. These large GTs are almost never encountered on the flats but instead are typically cruising channels and reef edges several meters down the water column. All of the large GTs that I have caught so far have been on conventional spinning tackle with poppers/stick baits or soft plastics on jig heads. Here is a recent specimen caught by a friend of mine on soft plastics a few weeks ago. We are standing on top of the reef but the fish was caught off the reef edge in the channel.










I have caught loads of juvenile trevally in shallow water on fly: various sub-species on everything from a 5 wt to a 9 wt. I decided to go with a 10wt because most of my fishing will be blind casting reef structure with sinking lines/tips and I think this will be more enjoyable with a 9-10 wt. But if I do hook up with a large GT I will have no chance and it will just break me off.

If I can find an area with consistent access to large GTs then I think I will look for a 12 wt Scott Sector, an 11+ Ross Evolution Salt, GT specific fly line and 80 lb braid backing (or similar setup). But from my research such a setup would cost over 2k USD (new) and that is more than I am willing to spend (at the moment).


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## spc7669 (Apr 15, 2015)

ArabianFlyCaster said:


> Nice catch! In my home waters there are a lot of GTs of varying sizes with the largest encountered so far being about 1m and in the 20-30 kg weight range. These large GTs are almost never encountered on the flats but instead are typically cruising channels and reef edges several meters down the water column. All of the large GTs that I have caught so far have been on conventional spinning tackle with poppers/stick baits or soft plastics on jig heads. Here is a recent specimen caught by a friend of mine on soft plastics a few weeks ago. We are standing on top of the reef but the fish was caught off the reef edge in the channel.
> 
> View attachment 196539
> 
> ...


We were fishing coral heads adjacent to to deep water from a boat, so what you are saying is spot on. My equipment recommendation was based on the fish we were hooking. We didn’t get any smaller ones, which would’ve been nice. I hope to do it again someday when travel gets back to normal.


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## Scootermax (Jul 5, 2019)

BrandonFox said:


> Interesting. Sucks for sure. Maybe just bad luck.
> 
> I've fished TFO exclusively (paying full retail, no freebies) in everything from a 3wt-12wt for now 12 years and have broken 0 rods. Trout to tuna to tarpon. And I truly treat my gear like crap... ex: my rods ride in the bed of my truck (in one piece) at highway speeds for an hour or two at a time.
> 
> ...


I have 6 TFO rods, no breakage. Got a 100# lemon shark (flats) on a 9 wt Mangrove. Crashed a clouded on a 8 wt Signature II, 6 years later, still going. Bought a used TFO IM6 12 wt, 5 years ago. I Have got tarpon up to 70 #. Also nice sharks, jacks, & Cuda That model was discontinues in 2002 according to a TFO factory rep. It is identical to Signature II, but no name on it. 
Also have a 8 wt Axiom II, 10 wt Signature II, & a 10 wt Mangrove, I fish Key West 6 weeks/yr. 
These rod have been good to me.


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## dtaylo1066 (Sep 28, 2021)

If you do snap a TFO rod, they have a great replacement warranty. My TiCrX has performed flawlessly for many years. BVK was known to snap now and then. Many a snapped carbon rod is due to a nick or crack put in the blank by a heavy fly or split shot. I broke a favorite sage once when I hooked a large Mazda trunk fish. Man that thing had a huge mouth. My Redington bit the dust when an ATV handle bar fish decided to munch it. Chewed clean through it. I have only seen one rod break on a fish. A Cabela's rod of my newphew snapped on a large Madison River rainbow. A large Ponderosa Pine fish snapped off the tip of my friend's fly rod.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

I have a BVK 8wt. I had heard all of the stories about people breaking them, shortly after I got it a buddy was on the front of my boat fishing my BVK, he hooded a redfish in excess of 30lbs, "See if you can blow the rod up" I told him. He leaned into that fish as hard as you possibly can with an 8wt and landed it. I've since repeated the experiment on large fish many times and haven't been able to break it on a fish with one caveat, I don't high stick. I truly believe the majority of breakages people had with them were from poor technique and high sticking fish. The BVK's were built light, which does mean thin walled, but with reasonable technique they handle fish just fine. I've got an Axiom IIX, I really like the rod and how it cast, and I think they are probably a bit more durable than the BVK. I've broken 2 rods on fish (and countless rod in car doors, ceiling fans etc), one was an Orvis T3 and the other a TFO TICR and both were absolutely my fault for high sticking large fish.


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## ArabianFlyCaster (Dec 20, 2021)

Just received my 10 wt Mangrove Coast! Out of the box I am casting 90 ft consistently which is a good 10-15 feet further than my 9 wt Orvis Recon. Could be the heavier rod making it easier for me to make the longer casts; but it feels like the Mangrove Coast is just easier to cast for someone with my casting skill level. The slower rod action seems to match my natural casting stroke a bit better.

Will report back on how it handles after I hook into a good sized fish!


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

redchaser said:


> I have a BVK 8wt. I had heard all of the stories about people breaking them, shortly after I got it a buddy was on the front of my boat fishing my BVK, he hooded a redfish in excess of 30lbs, "See if you can blow the rod up" I told him. He leaned into that fish as hard as you possibly can with an 8wt and landed it. I've since repeated the experiment on large fish many times and haven't been able to break it on a fish with one caveat, I don't high stick. I truly believe the majority of breakages people had with them were from poor technique and high sticking fish. The BVK's were built light, which does mean thin walled, but with reasonable technique they handle fish just fine. I've got an Axiom IIX, I really like the rod and how it cast, and I think they are probably a bit more durable than the BVK. I've broken 2 rods on fish (and countless rod in car doors, ceiling fans etc), one was an Orvis T3 and the other a TFO TICR and both were absolutely my fault for high sticking large fish.



These are my sentiments exactly. I would add one more caveat..... Don't touch the blank with your hand. Keep your hands on the cork and you'll be fine.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

kjnengr said:


> Keep your hands on the cork and you'll be fine.


That's what she said


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