# Fly-fishing SUP Choice



## Canebrake51

Dragonfly is very stable and comfortable with ice chest to sit down or use as casting platform. It is lighter than Kaku but much more expensive. As for car topping, the 13’6” model is pretty unwieldy to get on top of a mid size SUV single handed. It is beautiful though. The YOLO is somewhat more manageable to single hand but lacks the skiff-like properties of the Dragonfly hull. The L2 looks incredibly stable and spacious. I have a Dragonfly and once I get it in the water it’s great but ended up having to get a trailer because just couldn’t car top it alone.


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## Mike K

Canebrake51 said:


> The YOLO is somewhat more manageable to single hand but lacks the skiff-like properties of the Dragonfly hull. The L2 looks incredibly stable and spacious. I have a Dragonfly and once I get it in the water it’s great but ended up having to get a trailer because just couldn’t car top it alone.


The weight and practicality of car-topping is my primary concern, and a trailer is not really an option. That is the main reason that I have the inflatables. The Bote Rackham is only 41 lbs, which is lighter than my el-cheapo kayak, and I know that I can put that on the car myself. It is 12'-6" long and 32" wide, which makes it the same width as the Dragonfly and just 1' shorter. It is narrower than the YOLO but seems like it may have a little more "skiff-like" shape, although not as much as the Dragonfly. I am clearly not going to find the "perfect" option, so I am going to have to compromise somewhere. West Marine has the Bote on sale until the end of the month. That is sooner than I planned to buy, but for $$$ off, maybe I need to jump on it (literally?).

On the other hand, I've heard of people shark fishing from inflatables, and I don't actually intend to ever fish for sharks, so maybe I just need to get over my anxiety about the inflatables. Bote makes an inflatable Rackham that I've seen in the store, and it is impressively large (38" wide) and stable, and rock-hard when inflated, but weighs only 45 lbs and will fit in my car. Other than being inflatable, it seems like the perfect board for me.


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## Fritz

I saw a Bote Rover today and was really impressed, but I don't think it meets your budget or car top requirements. That said, I used to car top a butt-awful heavy square back canoe solo. I used a pair of wheel to move the boat around, it was no where near as hard as it might seem if you were to try picking that thing up all by yourself. It helped that an extra scratch or scuff on my Honda Civic was well past being noticed.


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## Gatorgrizz27

My $0.02, only having fished off the rental boards. If you’re reasonably coordinated, anything in the 30-32” range isn’t a big deal. The super wide boards paddle like bathtubs, but might be necessary if you’re on the clumsy side. 

The most challenging aspect of fly fishing from a paddle board is controlling it while actually fishing. For me, Bote wins at this hand down. The paddle sheath and tackle rac along with stake out holes will be an absolute game changer compared to boards that cannot accept accessories. I typically just lay my fly rod down between my feet facing forward, but crossing rough water it would be really nice to have it secured in a rod rack and stake out pole next to it that could quickly be dropped through the board. With a 5-7 mph wind you will get blown across a flat so quickly you can hardly make a cast. It’s insane. I was down in Key West this summer and was moving about as quickly as I can paddle at top speed when it started gusting a little bit.


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## Canebrake51

I have to say that the Rover is intriguing for all the accessories that Bote has available as well as for the convenience of a small outboard. With wind turning you into a sail and/or paddling against current it can be really hard to control the board and fish.


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## Gatorgrizz27

Canebrake51 said:


> I have to say that the Rover is intriguing for all the accessories that Bote has available as well as for the convenience of a small outboard. With wind turning you into a sail and/or paddling against current it can be really hard to control the board and fish.


One thing I haven’t tried from a SUP is using a push pole. From my experience, poling works MUCH better than paddling with very small skiffs in windy or tidal conditions.


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## Mc_Fly

I would skip bote in general. Had a rackham and the construction is garbage. Very easy to ding and suck water once opened up. I have an enormous amount of experience building surfboards and fiberglass work, so I would say I qualify to make that statement. The L2 is very well made but is a pain to move. Unbelievably stable and is perfect for fly if you can get the car top dialed in. No other hands on experience with the other brands, so I cannot comment. The only good thing about the bote was its tracking.


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## Padre

I have some experience on a few of these. Mostly the YOLO Fisher. I fished a whole cobia season on one of those. It is super stable. Fished in the Gulf on it every weekend looking for Cobia along the FL panhandle. I have tried the L2 once. It does track very well and it is hard to turn. And you can accessorize it. I have never fished a Bote but lots of guys around here have them and one of the things I like about them is the ability to use a stake out pole. Up here most bottoms are hard sand so you can't just stake out like in mud. But the Bote comes with the anchor pole built in which is nice because for me fishing on a SUP when there was wind or current was frustrating when you want to stop and you have to drop a real anchor. So I like that idea. Good luck.


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## g8rfly

Get the l2fish and don't look back. Nothing even comes close to comparing. The durability concerns on other sups are real. The L2 is built like a tank and I beat the hell out of mine, still goes strong. As previously mentioned it's a slight pia to turn, but let's be real are you fishing or doing a slalom course? Standing on coolers to fish, throwing cast nets, hunting.. it's more stable than a small jon! I don't work for them- I just love that board. Finally, the pp micro anchor on it is priceless. Just bite the bullet and drop the coin if you can make it happen budget wise. If you want a cheaper option like stakeout hole on the l2fish you could fab one up with a piece of starboard that is anchored between the sponsons in the back with a hole in it and rubber gasket.


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## Canebrake51

g8rfly said:


> Get the l2fish and don't look back. Nothing even comes close to comparing. The durability concerns on other sups are real. The L2 is built like a tank and I beat the hell out of mine, still goes strong. As previously mentioned it's a slight pia to turn, but let's be real are you fishing or doing a slalom course? Standing on coolers to fish, throwing cast nets, hunting.. it's more stable than a small jon! I don't work for them- I just love that board. Finally, the pp micro anchor on it is priceless. Just bite the bullet and drop the coin if you can make it happen budget wise. If you want a cheaper option like stakeout hole on the l2fish you could fab one up with a piece of starboard that is anchored between the sponsons in the back with a hole in it and rubber gasket.


How do you transport your L2?


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## krash

My 2 cents, and you will find the same 2 cents in other post to the same/similar question...
Dragonfly 13.6 is on the top of my list, L2 next, then Bote Rackham. Both the DragonFly and L2 are built like a boat, Gelcoat/fiberglass 2 part mold put together deck to hull. The bote is built like a surfboard foam eps blank shaped then covered with epoxy and a couple/few layers of light glass with painted on graphics. No experience with YOLO but would guess even though they call it hammer strength its likely same as the Bote.
The Kaku and similar product from Native & OK, are rotomolded plastic..
DragonFly & L2 are both lighter than the Rotomold kayaks/SUP products, and heavier than EPS over Foam product. Both DragonFly and L2 are tuff as nails, as are the Roto-mold products if you are looking for durability, but both can be much more easily be repaired when damaged.

My problem is similar to yours, weight, due to medical issues. I paddle a beater eps/foam SUP not designed for fishing. Its not durable but on calm days its OK for stand up sight fishing skinny waters where I fish... I've patched damaged areas no problem, but the worst that that can happen, has not happened, but I'm always aware of it.. is for you to hit something and puncture the hull where water can get in to the foam, that is not a simple fix.

I also car top and have no use or desire to get a trailer, I launch most places where you can't use a trailer nor could you legally park one there.

I had a DF 13.6 for several months and it was great, but just over my weight limit for handling. On/off the roof is only a small part getting it to/from the back yard to the car and the water is a bigger issue. Even the DF listed at 45 pounds I'd venture to say its closer to 50 with the Sea Deck, 5" hatch, and shallow water fin... My limit is abut 40 pounds. I found that loading was not that bad lift one end prop it on the rack and then slide it from the other, but up a rocky bank or down a slippery trail was not easy. 

Bote 12' is listed at 43 pounds, the 14 is 46, not much lighter than the DF.

Kaku is heavier, I think one s 66 and the other is 77.

Lightness go with a EPS/Foam, just get some epoxy and carry some 5 minute stuff or sun cure with you.
Durability go with RotoMold.
DragonFly vs. Bote Rackham vs L2Fish... thats kind of a personal choice, there is likely not 10% difference in the fit, finish, features, and fishability in these.

If Bote comes out with a Rackham in the GatorShell material it would maybe move to the top of my list. I'd be happy with a GatorShell HD which is lighter but perhaps less stable than the Rackham. The Rackham 14 is the older Ahab with a new name.

One difference in the DF and the Bote is that bow design, the Bote is a V entry but cust through the wave's, where the DF is a V-bow like a skiff and rides up and thru the waves and like a microskiff if you walk forward to the bow it will lean to one side or the other.
The L2/L4 may feel a bit more stable with the catamaran like hull when walking around, but has less deck space.

If I hit the lottery I'd go to DragonFly boatworks/paddleboards talk to Mark and get them to build me a kevlar or carbon build of the DragonFly 13.6 under 40 pounds. I'd also give Live WaterSPorts the same option to build a version of the L2/L4 lighter than 40 pounds, the catamaran hull is a great option. I fish skinny flats and don't run slalom courses.

I also have a 14'4" kevlar solo canoe that weighs 38 pounds, and floats in much skinnier water than an SUP, spit or slippery mud is all it needs, but is not easy to stand in.

That DragonFly was quiet as a mouse, paddled or poled well in all conditions, and is built by boat builders fthat fish or fishing specifically, has a clean clear deck for fly fishing and I could stand or sit, or even stand on the cooler...


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## Mc_Fly

Perfect assessment krash. The stake out hole on the bote is terrible if you are in current. The force of the pole to the edges of the stake out hole will cause the area around the hole to crack and take on water. I’ll give it to the bote guys for awesome marketing. I was 100% sold by the marketing alone. 

L2 is in a league of its own regarding finish and fishability.


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## kbanashek

Have you ever seen the AirBorn Barebones?
http://www.airbornboats.com/Barebones.html










I've got one I might be willing to part with if you're interested.


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## jsnipes

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> One thing I haven’t tried from a SUP is using a push pole. From my experience, poling works MUCH better than paddling with very small skiffs in windy or tidal conditions.


I used to fish out of a Diablo (kind of hybrid sup/kayak) and always poled. Moonlighter makes a 10ft pole that works pretty well. It was the only way to do any sort of reasonable sight fishing


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## permitchaser

I read the whole thread. Current, wind, tippy, alligators and sharks. I know I'm a chramugen and if I were 19-25 I may want a SUP. But I can't see why, for that amount of money you couldn't find a little boat that weights 85lbs a cooler to stand on and a push pole or long paddle IMHO


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## crboggs

Have you considered a canoe? 

I have a SUP (Cayo 122) and a canoe and unless the wind is blowing I much prefer to stand and pole the canoe around.


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## BM_Barrelcooker

Question for sup guys. 

When you load and unload and launch do you ever damage your tracking fins ?
It looks like they would get beat up all the time. 
Also is a stake out anchor and line less efficient than a hole in the board ?


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## Cliff

I will add a vote for a canoe. I have a 14ft old town. 60 lbs, easy to get on a car and carry. Very easy to stand up in, and I can carry gear. Mine is set up to row from a middle seat. It is easy, I have used it around Englewood for over 15 years and will use it for another 15 with any luck.


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## crboggs

BM_Barrelcooker said:


> Question for sup guys.
> 
> When you load and unload and launch do you ever damage your tracking fins ?
> It looks like they would get beat up all the time.
> Also is a stake out anchor and line less efficient than a hole in the board ?


I have a bonefish hippies skeg on my board...made from aluminum...its like a SUP kick stand, very durable.

I'm not a fan of the stake out pole through the skupper hole. Never have been...even on my Diablo. Mainly for two reasons...1) the board will pivot around that pole in any wind or current and 2) it adds additional stress to the board and will wear over time.

I got a little 5# mushroom anchor and tethered it to the board. It rides near my feet so that when I see fish or want to stop I can quicky and quietly slip it over the side without having to fumble too much. All I have to do is adjust the length of rope to the depth. Works the same on the canoe as well.


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## K3anderson

The Dragonfly isn't glass. Its made from innegra which is supposed to be lighter and stronger. I had the Cayo large board and can vouch for the fragility. I wrapped almost my whole board in helicopter tape so as not to destroy it. I also had the bonefish hippies type skeg to go skinny which in my mind is required for any type of shallow water fishing. I am not a believer in "car Topping" these boards. Of course you can do it, but, its unwieldy and a stiff wind could push it on to the ground where I think it would crack. 

I mush preferred poling over paddling. Mine cruised while poling. Even faster than my Diablo. I took a park and pole, lengthened it and removed the foot and replaced with a paddle end. This acted as a stake out, paddle, and a pole all in one. Not a fan on mushroom anchors and the like unless in super deep water. Not necessary at all using the above pole/anchor/paddle. The anchor and rope just was more stuff to tangle on. 

To your question, I would prefer the L2 over all of the above, I think. That said, the range was why I got rid of it. That, and putting it up and down off of my SUV was such a PIA. Now I have a solo skiff with a trailer.


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## crboggs

I wouldn't car top any of them either. It would be so much of a hassle that I'd rarely use them.


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## Mike K

permitchaser said:


> ...for that amount of money you couldn't find a little boat that weights 85lbs a cooler to stand on and a push pole or long paddle IMHO


I don't want to/can't trailer. Otherwise, that option would work, as well as many others. Maybe a Solo Skiff or even splurge on a Bote Rover. I am not sure what my limit is for lifting to car-top, but anything that would meet all of my other needs would be too heavy. I am 56 but in decent shape (5'-10" @ 165 lbs) and I have a 10' iSUP which I can stay on pretty well even in light chop/boat wake, and have recently even started to successfully fly-cast from it. However, it is not what I would choose for fishing the Keys, other than just as a platform for reaching a flat. The iSUP is 30" so the 10' Dragonfly @ 32" could work just fine for me.

I have a Sea Eagle 385 which is actually the most enjoyable one to fish from, as I can stand on the drop-stitch floor, but because it is a kayak rather than SUP, it is much more stable. However, it has the inflatable issue with regard to things with teeth.

If I read all of the posts, and take all of the opinions, while there is no true consensus, it sounds as if the Dragonfly is the best combination of durable and stable, and also has the best chance of my being able to car-top it. 

I can easily lift my plastic kayak to car-top, but it is a POS with no handles, so I have dropped it before, not from weight, but from lack of any way to lift it with stability. My last car had scratches on the hood and rear quarter from the abraded plastic on the kayak bottom, and I am not going to do that to the current car. Dragonfly apparently has a cover available (or maybe any large SUP cover would do) that would allow me to car-top it in a bag, protecting both the car and the board, and giving me handles. 

Dragonfly will also put in an anchor stake hole, too, which would be a nice feature.

The Airborn looks like a great fishing platform, but still have the inflatable/bite-able issue. As I said, maybe I am being unduly anxious about that. Has anyone else encountered sharks or 'gators while in an inflatable? I have paddled around in Islamorada, which does not concern me, but there are bigger ones around there, and that does concern me.


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## Mike K

crboggs said:


> I wouldn't car top any of them either. It would be so much of a hassle that I'd rarely use them.


That is why I have inflatables of varying types, and the plastic kayak only comes out when I want to hit the fresh water where I know there are gators. I'm sure that the gators are not a threat in most cases, but who wants to be that one guy you read about?


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## Canebrake51

Mike K said:


> I don't want to/can't trailer. Otherwise, that option would work, as well as many others. Maybe a Solo Skiff or even splurge on a Bote Rover. I am not sure what my limit is for lifting to car-top, but anything that would meet all of my other needs would be too heavy. I am 56 but in decent shape (5'-10" @ 165 lbs) and I have a 10' iSUP which I can stay on pretty well even in light chop/boat wake, and have recently even started to successfully fly-cast from it. However, it is not what I would choose for fishing the Keys, other than just as a platform for reaching a flat. The iSUP is 30" so the 10' Dragonfly @ 32" could work just fine for me.
> 
> I have a Sea Eagle 385 which is actually the most enjoyable one to fish from, as I can stand on the drop-stitch floor, but because it is a kayak rather than SUP, it is much more stable. However, it has the inflatable issue with regard to things with teeth.
> 
> If I read all of the posts, and take all of the opinions, while there is no true consensus, it sounds as if the Dragonfly is the best combination of durable and stable, and also has the best chance of my being able to car-top it.
> 
> I can easily lift my plastic kayak to car-top, but it is a POS with no handles, so I have dropped it before, not from weight, but from lack of any way to lift it with stability. My last car had scratches on the hood and rear quarter from the abraded plastic on the kayak bottom, and I am not going to do that to the current car. Dragonfly apparently has a cover available (or maybe any large SUP cover would do) that would allow me to car-top it in a bag, protecting both the car and the board, and giving me handles.
> 
> Dragonfly will also put in an anchor stake hole, too, which would be a nice feature.
> 
> The Airborn looks like a great fishing platform, but still have the inflatable/bite-able issue. As I said, maybe I am being unduly anxious about that. Has anyone else encountered sharks or 'gators while in an inflatable? I have paddled around in Islamorada, which does not concern me, but there are bigger ones around there, and that does concern me.


The Dragonfly cover for the 13’6 is not padded like some SUP bags. They have a nice anchor trolley system available. The YOLO fishing boards look indestructible and may be lighter.


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## ZaneD

The Kaku Kahuna and Voodoo are both good options for a near bulletproof rig that's stable and also relatively cheap (compared to others mentioned). Yes they are heavy, but personally I'd take the extra weight over a fragile board (Bote) or spending the money on a L2fish.

That's my opinion of fishing SUPs, but honestly my real recommendation is to spend the money on a small skiff with a motor and never look back. 90% of my paddle trips I end up frustrated with fighting wind and current all day, however if you have a good sheltered small water spot I could understand it.


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## Tailer

I wouldn't be nervous about car-topping a paddle board that weighs 50lbs or less unless you have a physical issue that prevents you from hefting 50lbs over your head. There are thousands of people car-topping recreational kayaks every weekend that are heavier and more awkward than any of these paddle boards. I've car-topped paddle boards, canoes, kayaks, and even a Gheenoe NMZ. I wouldn't recommend the bigger boats to anyone, but there's not much to car-topping a 50lb paddle board. 

I'm having Mark build a 13'6" Dragonfly with a mount for my Power Pole Micro. I don't think paddle boards are great for covering long distances, but in my opinion they are second only to a well set-up skiff for sightfishing in skinny water using a push pole.


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## Mike K

ZaneD said:


> The Kaku Kahuna and Voodoo are both good options for a near bulletproof rig that's stable and also relatively cheap (compared to others mentioned). Yes they are heavy, but personally I'd take the extra weight over a fragile board (Bote) or spending the money on a L2fish.
> 
> That's my opinion of fishing SUPs, but honestly my real recommendation is to spend the money on a small skiff with a motor and never look back. 90% of my paddle trips I end up frustrated with fighting wind and current all day, however if you have a good sheltered small water spot I could understand it.


If a trailer were an option, the Solo Skiff would be a no-brainer, but unfortunately, that is not realistic for me. Storage would be a major issue. I may try to figure it out, though, as a skiff/motor would be the perfect setup for me.

I do appreciate the comment about the Kaku boards, and I am now teetering between weight and cost. The Bote is more or less ruled out because of comments re durability, so it has come down to Dragonfly/L2Fish versus Kahuna/Voodoo. I'm in no hurry, so I will check out all options. 

Dragonfly is in Vero, an hour or so north, and they told me to come up and I am welcome to take one out on the water. Nautical Ventures, where I bought my Hobie, sells the L2Fish and will let me demo one. So, I can try out the two more expensive options. For the Kaku, there is no dealer closer than Melbourne, so I may have to make a day trip out of seeing the Dragonfly and Kaku.


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## Shadowcast

If you have the means, you cannot beat the L2Fish. Those things are awesome!


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## Mike K

Shadowcast said:


> If you have the means, you cannot beat the L2Fish. Those things are awesome!


I will demo one. If it is light enough to car-top but still stable, maybe it is the best choice. Otherwise, I am beginning to question the idea of any SUP for fishing. I keep trying to find one platform for both kayaking and fishing, but if it's light enough to transport with no trailer, it's too small and unstable for fishing; and stable enough to fish is too heavy to car-top. It might make more sense to get a small skiff that I can trailer, put on a trolling motor and have range plus stability and safety. If I can find one short enough to fit in my garage, it could work. So far the Ambush @ 13' is the smallest I can find, and I have room for that. The Solo is 14.5', which could also work, but would be tighter. Does anyone have any experience with an Ambush skiff or know of a good one that is smaller?


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## k-roc

Hi guys, I've been fishing from SUPs since 2014 and generally paddling SUPs including whitewater since 2010.
For fishing I've had a couple of different boards. My wife and I started out on the Badfish Badfisher. It's a cool design, well made and super easy to inflate. The downside to its incredible stability is that being 37" wide it's a bit of a pig to paddle! If you're not planning on going far, it's a great option. The side "pontoons help keep all your possessions on board too.

Last year I decided to get some new boards so I could leave a set at my parent's condo is SW Fla. We've flown with our SUPs before but it makes for a lot of luggage!
We went with the NRS Ospreys. These are 34" which is to me the best compromise between paddle-ability and fish-ability. They also inflate to 20 PSI, they feel just like a hard board. If you like to be fit, then you'll love inflating these bad boys! Seriously it is a pretty intense 5 minute workout getting these boards up to 20 PSI. Thankfully they come with a great pump. 

Anyways I now keep the Badfisher for steelheading on the Skeena system or for fishing British Columbia lakes for bass. The NRS osprey is for the 10K islands and beaches of Naples. We get up close to sharks,manatees, dolphins, sawfish on a regular basis but have not encountered crocs or snakes. I highly doubt that I would ever launch in Flamingo after seeing the story of the guys on a skiff who came across a 15 ft. python!!!


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## krash

No worries about the roof top.. I been roof top carrying for many years, been thru 3 canoes, 2 kayaks, and 2 SUP's,, also been thru 4 cars as a carrier, '91 4 dr Accord and 3 2dr Honda Civics ('01, '12, '08), and 5 different rack systems form 4 simple foam blocks on the 1st canoe, soft surf-board racks modified with pool noodles, hard round & square bar Yakime & & Thule, and now the Thule Aero Bars.

Don't know about the "innegra" material but if its stronger and lighter I'm all for that, but I checked with my buddy a DF rep. today to verify and he said as far as he knows they use the same glass they use to build boats.
DF does have a 12' called the Techie that is 40 pounds but I have no experience with that.. the 10' is not the same hull design the hull is close to flat and is noisy on the water for stalking inshore spooky fish.
Nothing negative about the L2's either I'd still say its a toss up and you can't go wrong with either one.

Mike, you could contact Peter Hinck (Palm Beach Pete) although hes in Sebastian area now and he'll be able to set up a demo for ya on the DF. Check for him on yourtube hes got a channel with several videos and been SUP fishing it for several years.
There is an Nautical Ventures up WBP way, a guy name Ryan Jones works there and hes on the L2 pro-staff I'm sure if you stopped by there he'd set you up with a demo ride.


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## K3anderson

krash said:


> Don't know about the "innegra" material but if its stronger and lighter I'm all for that, but I checked with my buddy a DF rep. today to verify and he said as far as he knows they use the same glass they use to build boats.


Hmmm. I just got that from here. The Dragonfly 13′ 6” board is made in Vero Beach, FL and was designed by Mark Castlow. It is a two part construction similar to the way that a boat is made from a mold. The inside is supported by a polypropylene foam core. The material used to make the board is called Innegra. Innegra is a polypropylene type fiber that when woven can be used like you would use carbon fiber or fiberglass. It’s more buoyant, lighter, more impact resistant, and more abrasion resistant than fiberglass. The finish on the board is gel coat and Dragonfly has a distinct, shiny gel finish that is like none that I have ever seen. When asked how you get your gel coat so shiny, Mark Castlow says ”that is our little secret.” The top of the board is finished off with either Ocean Grip or Sea Deck traction pad which comes in a multitude of color options and style options. Dragonfly boards typically come with a removable Engel cooler but Yeti coolers can be mounted to the board as an optional upgrade. The company offers custom LED lighting, a shallow water fin to replace the standard board fin, and there is even a back rest option. The starting price for these American-made beauties, is approximately $1900, depending on the way you trick it out. One of the boards we ordered for a customer was fitted with V Marine custom push pole holders and a matching blue Yeti cooler. I think all the new board companies have some great and innovative ideas and Dragonfly is right there with them.


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## K3anderson

I think "car" topping is different than SUV topping. A car would be np. It was hoisting up on top of my large SUV that was a PIA. Especially if it was windy. I assure you I have no problem hoisting 65lb. Its the awkward shape of these things by yourself. Car is lower, so probably easier.


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## krash

Could be "Innegra" , either way if its lighter and stronger I'd be behind that idea... like I said my limit is 40#...

Car/SUP, for sure loading on my chest high Civic is much easier that an SUV would be, and for sure the wind is an issue.. but I have many friends that do so with kayaks that are anywhere between 60-80 pounds... a friend long ago showed me how he does his he has a bath mat, rubberized back side so it won't slide, lays it on the rear edge, lifts the bow end up on his SUV, then lifts the rear and slides it on... now if its really windy the light 34 pound SUP or 38 pound canoe I have blows off much easier.
Lugging to from yard to car, car to water and back is a different issue but can be solved with a cart.

Trailers can be purchased and/or modified with swinging tounge's for garage fitment, if thats an option. Trailers to me cause other issues like ramps and parking.

Editied my previous post, I inadvertently put Rick when the guys name is actually Ryan Jones at Nautical Ventures, I think the place used to be Adventure times and Ryan used to work at the Dania Nautical Venture store...


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## trekker

Mike K said:


> The weight and practicality of car-topping is my primary concern, and a trailer is not really an option. That is the main reason that I have the inflatables. The Bote Rackham is only 41 lbs, which is lighter than my el-cheapo kayak, and I know that I can put that on the car myself. It is 12'-6" long and 32" wide, which makes it the same width as the Dragonfly and just 1' shorter. It is narrower than the YOLO but seems like it may have a little more "skiff-like" shape, although not as much as the Dragonfly. I am clearly not going to find the "perfect" option, so I am going to have to compromise somewhere. West Marine has the Bote on sale until the end of the month. That is sooner than I planned to buy, but for $$$ off, maybe I need to jump on it (literally?).
> 
> On the other hand, I've heard of people shark fishing from inflatables, and I don't actually intend to ever fish for sharks, so maybe I just need to get over my anxiety about the inflatables. Bote makes an inflatable Rackham that I've seen in the store, and it is impressively large (38" wide) and stable, and rock-hard when inflated, but weighs only 45 lbs and will fit in my car. Other than being inflatable, it seems like the perfect board for me.


I have started putting my hitch mount cargo basket on to help with loading my SUP. Still a PIA, but alot easier.


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## captjsanchez

L2fish
Fast
Stable
Versatility
Just under 50 lbs
Can put a outboard
Can put a live well
Fiberglass so you can easily gix


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## krash

I just saw a post on FB that Nautical Ventures, the N. Palm Bch. store, is having a demo days event March 10th... give them a call and ask if they will put out a Rackham and give it a try.. if you speak to Ryan ask if you can try the L2Fish...

One pro, not mentioned above, is the L2Fish come's with track's for mounting and attaching stuff along the hull.
If you go with DragonFly 13.6 it would be a good idea to have them install Tracks in crucial spots for mounting stuff like rod holders, paddle/push-pole holders, cooler. Its not easy to add later as you cannot easily access the backside of the deck after its built, same issue with the roto-mold and standard SUP EPS/Epoxk builds.
The DF 12' Techie has a nice feature where tracks are mounted flush with the deck, fly lines won't get caught on them.
The cooler mount on the DF is kind of a negative in my mind. Its a recesed 1/4x20 threaded deal, and they have a hole in the center of the cooler to bolt it down from the inside. If you load the cooler at launch time you have to empty the cooler to do so, the cooler nener did feel to secure to me when standing on the Engle cooler. If I had a new one built I'd have Tracks installed along the rails where the cooler would mount.
Palm Beach Pete had a larger hatch made for his current DF 13.6, at build time, that 5" round hatch is water tight and good for say a wallet, keys, and phone but that's about it, he had a larger space below deck that allows him to carry a few drinks in there. I never used the 5" hatch and kept all my stuff inside the Engle cooler used as a dry box.


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## Mike K

krash said:


> Mike, you could contact Peter Hinck (Palm Beach Pete) although hes in Sebastian area now and he'll be able to set up a demo for ya on the DF. Check for him on yourtube hes got a channel with several videos and been SUP fishing it for several years.
> There is an Nautical Ventures up WBP way, a guy name Ryan Jones works there and hes on the L2 pro-staff I'm sure if you stopped by there he'd set you up with a demo ride.


Dragonfly is in Vero and they said come in any time and demo one. I bought my Hobie from Nautical Ventures in NPB, and I have met Ryan. They told me I can demo the L2. So trying them out is not a problem. I can't make any decision until I have tried them both, anyway. I am not in any hurry, so I will wait until I have been on each one, and then see.

Car-topping is not a problem once it is up there. I have a Malone Handi-rack (inflatable) which works great, but getting the kayak up with no handles has been a problem. I can lift the weight but not when there is nothing to hold on to in order to steady it. A better kayak will have handles.


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## krash

Not having handles is a big issue.. I added 2 handles, one on each side centered so it balances overhead for lifting and carrying my SUP.

That finger grip hand slot on the DF really does kind of suck specially when wet.

I had a set of Malone handi rack's, inflatable, but did not use it.. they are a couple inches to long, wide, for my Civic roof-top... gave it to a friend and she uses it on her 2017 Honda Odesy which she could not find racks for.

After talking roof racks again, reviewing old post, and new research, I purchased an FCS Premium Soft SUP racks, for quick and dirty trips in the other half's car on vacation where I don;t bring my car...Note, They are foam and only about 2" thick.. 26" wide and for a quick trip with a surf board style recreational paddleboard they would be OK, but for main line carrying a DF, L2, RotoMold SUP, kayak or canoe I would not recommend them. They do have a heavy denier covering and great straps with a unique D-ring clamp for securing stuff though. 
Will use them in a few weeks on a Tampa trip to my sons, hoping to talk him out of his kayak, seeing as how he now has that shinny new Pathfinder 25 Hybrid and the kayak just sits.


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## BM_Barrelcooker

Ok, this is kind of off topic and kind of not 

I recently purchased a L4 expadition....I was thinking about goofing around with the kids with it on the beach and doing some fishing off of it. My fishing car is a 2000 landcruiser with factory racks and the L4 is approx 65 pounds. I'm thinking about getting the malone handirack or possibly a basket rack ( that clamps to the factory rails) . any suggestions or imput from you guys that have boards?
the handiracks look great and easy. the basket would be handy for carrying rods and wading shoes and stuff. even beach chairs and junk like that ...what do ya'll think?


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## krash

Does the Land Cruiser have factory racks that run parallel front to back with the car, or do they also have bars that cross from side to side ?

You can get cross bars with attachment adapters to add to the rack/rails that run parallel with the L-cruiser from manu's. like Thule, Yakima or others.

With the L4 it may be a bit heavy for the inflatable Handi-Racks, especially if you load it right side up, if you load it deck/flat side down where the weight is distributed better across the Handi-Rack surface would maybe be ok.

If you add a basket to the setup up you have you'll still have a crossbar problem needing some sort of padding on the crossbars of the basket where the L4 makes contact.

Depending on how many trips you take and how far your go, I typically travel at least an hour at hi-way speeds to get to my launch site, carrying a $2k board or kayak I'd not cheap out on the rack system... for your purpose I'd say get good crossbars, use cross straps/line, and always make sure to use bow and stern lines to secure the board to the roof.
The wind load is one thing, but you also don't want to launch a 65 pound missile in a panic stop.


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## BM_Barrelcooker

krash said:


> Does the Land Cruiser have factory racks that run parallel front to back with the car, or do they also have bars that cross from side to side ?
> 
> You can get cross bars with attachment adapters to add to the rack/rails that run parallel with the L-cruiser from manu's. like Thule, Yakima or others.
> 
> With the L4 it may be a bit heavy for the inflatable Handi-Racks, especially if you load it right side up, if you load it deck/flat side down where the weight is distributed better across the Handi-Rack surface would maybe be ok.
> 
> If you add a basket to the setup up you have you'll still have a crossbar problem needing some sort of padding on the crossbars of the basket where the L4 makes contact.
> 
> Depending on how many trips you take and how far your go, I typically travel at least an hour at hi-way speeds to get to my launch site, carrying a $2k board or kayak I'd not cheap out on the rack system... for your purpose I'd say get good crossbars, use cross straps/line, and always make sure to use bow and stern lines to secure the board to the roof.
> The wind load is one thing, but you also don't want to launch a 65 pound missile in a panic stop.



It has the factory crossbars. But I don’t think they are sturdy enough or padded well enough. 

I’m just a little cautious about putting too much into a rack for an 18 year old vehicle.


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## krash

Pads are available.. most any SUP shop should have them that will either slide on the crossbars, or wrap around and velcro. I have the Thule SUP pads, because at the time they were the only ones that would fit the Aero style bars.
I got mine off fleabay... same place I got the FCS soft racks. Dakine also makes a set called the Dakine Aero Long pads that wrap around the rack and velco in place. The Velcro option is not that secure and someone could easily snatch them off.

It's not the 18 year old vehicle I'd worry about then, its the $2k+ DragonFly, L2/L4, Bote... I'd worry about protecting.


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## g8rfly

Canebrake51 said:


> How do you transport your L2?


I use a $40 bed extender for my 5 ft truck bed. Works beautifully and a breeze to load and unload


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## crboggs

Yup...$40 bed extender from Harbor Freight here...


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## kbanashek

Looking to sell my airbones if you're interested in a setup that would allow for trolling motor/small outboard. Also very easy to paddle/push.

https://post.craigslist.org/manage/6518682951

Price negotiable. Have Newport 55lb thrust in excellent condition I could throw in for an additional $10


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## Colby0303

Bed extender here too! Wrapped the end with a pool noodle and it makes loading/unloading super easy. I have a Bote Rackham that I fly fish quite regularly from and despite how fragile it can be, I enjoy fishing from it and have some surf wax and sun cure on stand by if I need it. If I would have to do it all over again, I'd probably save and get an L2F but I got mine used for a great price so don't mind beating it up a bit.


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## Wolftaco

Inflatable SUP = Game Changer


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## krash

Colby0303 said:


> ... I have a Bote Rackham that I fly fish quite regularly from and despite how fragile it can be, ... but I got mine used for a great price so don't mind beating it up a bit.


If I came across a Rackham at a great beater price I'd be all over it too... I can patch um up with the best of ya's.


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## Chadrap

K3anderson said:


> The Dragonfly isn't glass. Its made from innegra which is supposed to be lighter and stronger. I had the Cayo large board and can vouch for the fragility. I wrapped almost my whole board in helicopter tape so as not to destroy it. I also had the bonefish hippies type skeg to go skinny which in my mind is required for any type of shallow water fishing. I am not a believer in "car Topping" these boards. Of course you can do it, but, its unwieldy and a stiff wind could push it on to the ground where I think it would crack.
> 
> I mush preferred poling over paddling. Mine cruised while poling. Even faster than my Diablo. I took a park and pole, lengthened it and removed the foot and replaced with a paddle end. This acted as a stake out, paddle, and a pole all in one. Not a fan on mushroom anchors and the like unless in super deep water. Not necessary at all using the above pole/anchor/paddle. The anchor and rope just was more stuff to tangle on.
> 
> To your question, I would prefer the L2 over all of the above, I think. That said, the range was why I got rid of it. That, and putting it up and down off of my SUV was such a PIA. Now I have a solo skiff with a trailer.


Also had a cayo. Dinged it up every time I used it. Got a dragonfly for nothing else but the durability factor. And I like it.


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## Cronced

I have an older emotion traverse. It's a 10 footer, wide, really stable and bullet proof. I've banged it off concrete docks and barnacles and everything you can think of. I just never use it anymore. If you're anywhere close to Jupiter, FL you can come by and get it when I'm home. No offer will be refused!


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## 994

Are you guys white water rafting or something? I’ve taken my cayo Paddleboard out dozens of times and never felt like it was fragile. It fell off the top of my Subaru onto crushed shell and just bounced. Little scratches but nothing serious. 

Are Botes still made in China?


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## krash

mosquitolaGOON said:


> Are you guys white water rafting or something? ......
> 
> Are Botes still made in China?


Funny... I'm actually pretty conscious about my surroundings and take care of my stuff. I fish mainly inshore in shallow water. with hard irregular bottom. I've fished canoes and kayaks for many years and recently in the past 2 years or so switched to using an SUP in the same waters, (B-Bay, Choko, Flamingo, Keys). It's not if you hit something hard, its when.

Its always been an argument between gel-coat/glass vs roto-mold kayak and/or canoe owners what happens when you hit an oyster bar or coral rock. The roto-mold products generally get a nice gouge with a curly tail that cannot easily be repaired. Gel-coat makes an really ugly noise and sometimes a scratch or gouge but can easily be repaired, the noise is the oyster crushing.

The thin epoxy resin over very light 4/6oz. glass cloth with auto like paint that most SUP's are made damages much more easily and severly from the same oyster bar. An SUP is much lighter with this build can be repaired with epoxy and glass but for sure damages much easier.

I've dropped my roto kayaks, royalex canoe, fiberglass/gel-coat canoes and kayak, and never had any damage compared to the damage when I've dropped my SUP.

I believe Cayo SUP's are built currently with a CNC formed EPS foam blank and glassed like a surfboard with a few layers of light glass cloth and epoxy resin, typical of most SUP builds. I've never paddled one but it was number 2 on my desired list behind DF, before Bote came out with the Rackham and then LiveWater came out with the L2.

No idea where Botes are actually made, they would like for us to think its not offshore.


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## crboggs

mosquitolaGOON said:


> Are you guys white water rafting or something? I’ve taken my cayo Paddleboard out dozens of times and never felt like it was fragile. It fell off the top of my Subaru onto crushed shell and just bounced. Little scratches but nothing serious.


My Cayo 122 is paint on top of glass with no clear coat or etc. So it scratches and chips if you look at it wrong. Not a structural problem, but not a board you want if that sort of thing bothers you or if you care about resale value.


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## mightyrime

I fish off my sups a bunch here in socal. I have a hala fame inflatable which is probably the finest quality of the inflatables. It is very well made and was designed in Colorado for white water rafting. Downside is inflatables are slow to paddle and due to rocker nose design paddling into the wind is a real challenge.

My other board is a pau hana big eze angler and I love it. It's a hard board probably made over seas but seems the perfect blend of stability, speed and maneuverability. It also has a bunch of screw thread adapters that accept all the ram style kayak mount stuff.

Photo of my hala fame hunting some striped flats


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## crboggs

krash said:


> royalex canoe


I bought one of the last royalex canoe's here at a local shop.

The vinyl layer on top of the core material scratches really easily. I'm actually thinking about adding some skid plates at either end to protect those high contact areas from wear and tear.

You have any experience repairing or resurfacing your royalex boats?


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## krash

Sorry no, never repaired one... scratches are just part of the game. My Vagabond is Gel-Coat over fiberglass, but they did make them from Royalex until it was no longer being produced.

Here is a link to a pdf I had saved a while back on Royalex repair.

I'd look at G-Flex form West Systems, that stuff will stick to anything. Here is a link to an article of some serious canoe repair being done with g-Flex.


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## TysonC

I know this is a month old but I didn’t see anybody chime in with Kaku Kahuna experience. I owned one for a few months and quickly got rid of it. I think mine was maybe a bit “flimsier” than most would prefer when standing and casting. The top wasn’t even and would bend in at certain spots, as if there was very little support structure inside the board. Additionally, it was slow and heavy. 

But, if you’re looking for a cheap, bomb-proof board, it definitely fits the bill. Just know it’s not a top performer.


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## texasag07

I recently stayed at a DIY lodge that has lots of sups for fishing usage. They have hard SUP, ISUP's and kayaks. Unless you specifically request to use a traditional hard SUP they bring out the inflatables, which from the looks of the boards was because of wear and repairs that would be needed from heavy use. I'm sure it is also much more cost effective to have a inflatable shipped to them verus a hard SUP.

The wife has wanted a SUP for a while so after finding a 40% off deal at West Marine recently we went with an inflatable Bote SUP. Only time will tell.


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## Mike K

BM_Barrelcooker said:


> Ok, this is kind of off topic and kind of not
> 
> I recently purchased a L4 expadition....I was thinking about goofing around with the kids with it on the beach and doing some fishing off of it. My fishing car is a 2000 landcruiser with factory racks and the L4 is approx 65 pounds. I'm thinking about getting the malone handirack or possibly a basket rack ( that clamps to the factory rails) . any suggestions or imput from you guys that have boards?
> the handiracks look great and easy. the basket would be handy for carrying rods and wading shoes and stuff. even beach chairs and junk like that ...what do ya'll think?


The Handi-rack works well and only takes a few minutes to set up. I have only two issues... neither of which may be valid...LOL. First, the inflated tubes are flexible so the kayak/board will bounce a little as you drive. I find that disconcerting, but I have no reason to believe that the racks won't hold up fine. I'm sure they are designed to withstand the added pressure of the bouncing kayak. Second, the valves are just those clear plastic pool float type, with the little flap inside to make them "one way". A more substantial valve would give me more confidence, but again, I have no reason to believe that the valves would fail. Overall, the Handi-rack is an excellent solution to the car-topping problem.

So... I had the opportunity to demo an L2. It was not as stable as I would have expected, but I tested it on a day with wind and chop, and it is not likely that I would ever use it in conditions like that. That said, I expected the catamaran design to be less tippy, and I felt that it had a tendency to nosedive into waves/wake rather than riding over or through. It was also like a barge to turn. The Drgaonfly is supposed to steer much better, so I still plan to demo one, and I have hopes that the V-shape hull makes it ride waves better.


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## ktn78704

I have a Native Versa board that I Flyfish, throw a cast net from with no problems. You can sit and paddle in high winds. It has numerous holes to slide a broom handle or bamboo thru to anchor.


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## Mike K

TysonC said:


> I know this is a month old but I didn’t see anybody chime in with Kaku Kahuna experience. I owned one for a few months and quickly got rid of it. I think mine was maybe a bit “flimsier” than most would prefer when standing and casting. The top wasn’t even and would bend in at certain spots, as if there was very little support structure inside the board. Additionally, it was slow and heavy.
> 
> But, if you’re looking for a cheap, bomb-proof board, it definitely fits the bill. Just know it’s not a top performer.


I have considered the Kaku Kahuna or Voodoo, but the weight is a negative, although the price is better. The Yolo Yak Angler seems the most cost-effective and is less expensive, and at 58 lbs, more manageable, but at 33" wide may still be very stable.

The Botes are ruled out because of fragility. I have seen them, and they are very attractive, but do not seem durable. The inflatable Aero looks great, but I have an inflatable Hobie that fits that bill.



texasag07 said:


> I recently stayed at a DIY lodge that has lots of sups for fishing usage. They have hard SUP, ISUP's and kayaks. Unless you specifically request to use a traditional hard SUP they bring out the inflatables, which from the looks of the boards was because of wear and repairs that would be needed from heavy use. I'm sure it is also much more cost effective to have a inflatable shipped to them verus a hard SUP.
> 
> The wife has wanted a SUP for a while so after finding a 40% off deal at West Marine recently we went with an inflatable Bote SUP. Only time will tell.


For general use, I love my inflatables. I have bounced them off rocks and docks that would definitely have damaged a traditional SUP. Unless you are going to be near very sharp objects such as oyster shells, the inflatable should work well for you.


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## krash

Bote has changed the game a little, they recently released the Rackham in the "GatorShell" product... its tuff as nails with little or no additional weight. They previously marketed the HD and a couple other models in this material but for 2018 added the Rackham.


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## Mike K

krash said:


> Bote has changed the game a little, they recently released the Rackham in the "GatorShell" product... its tuff as nails with little or no additional weight. They previously marketed the HD and a couple other models in this material but for 2018 added the Rackham.


I saw that and would consider it except...

*AWW SHUCKS!*
We are sorry, the product is sold out.

https://www.boteboard.com/product/2018-rackham-120-classic-gatorshell/

Chat: The 12' Rackham can be ordered in Gatorshell when available (currently unavailable). We do not have an availability date and do not expect one this season.


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## ZaneD

krash said:


> Bote has changed the game a little, they recently released the Rackham in the "GatorShell" product... its tuff as nails with little or no additional weight. They previously marketed the HD and a couple other models in this material but for 2018 added the Rackham.


So has anyone here had experience with the new gatorshell boards? If so how do they hold up?


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## Mike K

ktn78704 said:


> I have a Native Versa board that I Flyfish, throw a cast net from with no problems. You can sit and paddle in high winds. It has numerous holes to slide a broom handle or bamboo thru to anchor.


I considered the VersaBoard, but my concern is much the same as with kayaks that I can stand in, namely that the seat, center console, and molded foot slots, etc, look very easy to step on or trip over. As I am becoming more proficient at using the SUP, I find myself moving forward or back on the deck more easily, and I don't really want a board that has designated foot pads that will require me to stay in one spot or the console and well that prevent me from moving around. I think that a board with a more open deck will suit me better.


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## el9surf

I will be doing a review on my new l2fish once I have a chance to put it through it's paces. Still waiting on some of the accessories that are on order.


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## Mike K

el9surf said:


> I will be doing a review on my new l2fish once I have a chance to put it through it's paces. Still waiting on some of the accessories that are on order.


I will look for your review! I am not in any hurry to buy something, so I am definitely interested in your thoughts on it. The demo I did was not really fair to the L2, as it was windy and choppy, and not conditions under which I would be out on the board anyway. I will be trying out the Dragonfly in the near future, and won't be making any decision until I have had a chance to do that.


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## el9surf

Mike K said:


> I will look for your review! I am not in any hurry to buy something, so I am definitely interested in your thoughts on it. The demo I did was not really fair to the L2, as it was windy and choppy, and not conditions under which I would be out on the board anyway. I will be trying out the Dragonfly in the near future, and won't be making any decision until I have had a chance to do that.


The dragonfly was on my short list but I liked the length of the L2 and being able to have the majority of it in the bed of my truck, opposed to hanging out with a bed extender. At this point I'm looking for the fewest steps in the process when I go to use it.


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## Griffinz33

I have a l2fish and love it. I fish skinny water a lot. The advantages: it is extremely stable with a lot of space. Disadvantages: the fins that come on it draw quite a bit of water, it is heavy, and it has a wide turn radius. But the fixes (that I did) are replacing the fins on the board with bonefish hippie fins. I stand on a Engle cooler that isn’t strapped down and use a 3 piece park n pole to push around and I have plenty of balance. Another advantage is that on the live water sports website, they have many useful mounts for the tracks that fit both boards. It also is very durable from experience. I have hit oysterbeds and rocks yet there are no scratches, holes, or cracks in the board. The board is awesome and I highly recommend it


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## el9surf

Griffinz33 said:


> I have a l2fish and love it. I fish skinny water a lot. The advantages: it is extremely stable with a lot of space. Disadvantages: the fins that come on it draw quite a bit of water, it is heavy, and it has a wide turn radius. But the fixes (that I did) are replacing the fins on the board with bonefish hippie fins. I stand on a Engle cooler that isn’t strapped down and use a 3 piece park n pole to push around and I have plenty of balance. Another advantage is that on the live water sports website, they have many useful mounts for the tracks that fit both boards. It also is very durable from experience. I have hit oysterbeds and rocks yet there are no scratches, holes, or cracks in the board. The board is awesome and I highly recommend it


How long is the park n pole you use?


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## Griffinz33

el9surf said:


> How long is the park n pole you use?


I have the 8ft and got the 4ft extension so about 12ft overall. It works pretty well as a push pole and a stick anchor. It is kind of difficult to figure out an anchor system but I just stick it in a rod holder on the tracks and it seems to do ok. But I want to figure out a better way to anchor.


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## kjsea

mike, 
I have the dragonfly 13'6" board. i wouldn't recommend car toping it. heavy after all day paddling. They do have any option you want, stake out pole, rod holders, anchor system. They have a smaller version the 10' (lighter). Also they have the techie 12' version more money though and about the same weight as the 13'6". i am sure you've been on there website for all the specs. 
Dragonfly makes a great board, design of the bottom just like a skiff, Quiet. you can lay fly line right on the deck no basket or pad, the toe rail keeps it on the deck. some cons are stability standing on top of a cooler is difficult,but i am sure it can be done with more time trying / practicing. Tried it today, wasn't up there long though a couple minutes. i like to think i have prety good balance. Heavy to put on top a car. 

There is currently a dragonfly paddle board 13'6" board on craigslist in Sebastian fl. i believe it is listed for 1200$.


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