# 8 wt upgrade



## Daz

candrew said:


> Looking for some advice on a new 8 wt. I currently have a TFO pro 2 and have been using it for the past year now and its been a great rod. However, Its time for me to move on to something faster. I have been looking at the G. Loomis crosscurrent and Scott tidal. Im not sure if I should go with one of these rods or if its worth trying to dish out some extra cash for the crosscurrent glx, nrx, meridian, etc... Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Have you tried the TiCrx? I changed my 10 wt. from an original Pro series to the TiCrx and really like it - So much that I bought an 8 wt to go with it.


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## ifsteve

The more rods you can try before buying the better off you will be especially if you going to look at a high end rod. I am a fan of Sage and have both Xi3 and Salts. I also have fished an Xi2 in an 8 wt. Great rods for my casting style. May or may not be good for you. If you can find one either and Xi2 or Xi3 can be gotten for a lot less than a new high end rod.


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## candrew

Ticrx has been in my list as well. With the sages does the xi3 compete with the salt as far as line speed?


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## jmrodandgun

What kind of conditions are you fishing in? I have been really liking the whorvis Recon lately. I like it so much I only reach for my H2 when the wind is up.


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## ifsteve

The Xi3 and Salt are very similar rods as far as casting style and line speed. The real difference is that the Salt has the kinnectic technology which dampens the rod vibration which helps with accuracy. I like them both equally well and for the money would probably go with an Xi3 if you could find one only because it would be so much less expensive. Not inexpensive just less. But I cast the Salt a bit more accurately. Enough to make a difference? Maybe maybe not.


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## candrew

Mostly mosquito lagoon reds and some boca grande snook. Making a lot of long casts to either moving or tailing reds on the flat. it can get real windy in there too. xi3 seems to be a good option if I can find one. has anyone thrown a loomis crosscurrent?


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## Snooknut

Not sure how the XI3 and the Salt compare but, the Salt is taking the place of the XI3 from what my local fly shop is telling me. Which is highly possible due to the XI3 blank availability is no more.


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## ifsteve

The Salt was introduced last year as the replacement for the Xi3. Sage discontinued the Xi3 when the got the Salt on the shelves. They really are very similar rods.


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## candrew

Thanks for the info fellas


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## saltydg0089

x2 on the Recon. I use it more than my NRX, except in the wind.


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## sjrobin

candrew said:


> Mostly mosquito lagoon reds and some boca grande snook. Making a lot of long casts to either moving or tailing reds on the flat. it can get real windy in there too. xi3 seems to be a good option if I can find one. has anyone thrown a loomis crosscurrent?


I have had the crosscurrent 8 wt one piece since 2003. Very powerful rod . I have used 16 lb leader/shock with the cross current just experimenting and you can wench most redfish or bass in if you wanted. I have probably caught more fish with that rod than all the others. NRX 7 wt., Helios one piece, and an old Sage Graphite 2 two piece are in the rotation. I bought a good looking new Sage Xi 3 once on impulse after casting it in a parking lot and ended up selling it. The NRX and Helios "feel" better(lighter) than the crosscurrent one piece for older guys, but you being a young man could handle an old glass rod no problem.


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## acesover

I just got a Sage Bolt 8wt, nice casting rod.


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## Classic_Matt

I fish primarily in the Mosquito lagoon and Indian river and the NRX is my rod of choice, but if your not looking to spend that much then I would try to get your hands on a TFO BVK to cast, very fast and accurate rod. I personally believe they throw as well as a lot of rods way above their price range. Just go to your local fly shop after you've narrowed your choices to 4 or 5 rods, cast all of them one right after the other, and go with whichever one feels the best to you and never look back. Unfortunately, for my wallet, that was the NRX for me.....


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## Backwater

If you still like the feel of the TFO Pro II 8wt., then keep it and find a 9wt TFO BVK and throw it. I think that would be a better snook and big redfish rod for you while still keeping within a budget. I've thrown one side by side with an 8wt NRX and the 9wt BVK certainly had more balls. Yes I know, it's a 9wt, but that maybe what you need to cut wind, throw bigger flies further and horse some bigger fish. Then you can keep the Pro II for lighter flies with less windy conditions. Also learning to throw tighter loops and proper techniques for distance casting will help you over come some of the troubles you are having with that rod and might just wake it up. It can also be the flyline you are using. Crap line = crap! Also learning how to cast without rocking the boat will allow you to get closer to the fish so you don't have to cast so far. Hull rocking and slapping can drive them out of range for even the best distance casters. So a faster, more expensive rod will not necessarily solve your casting and/or distance issues.

candrew, what area do you live?


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## ifsteve

I'll go back to my first comment. Cast if at all possible before you buy. I had my eyes on a BVK. Local shop didn't have one in stock so ordered (thankfully with no obligations to buy). Didn't like it at all. Six months later thought I'd try an NRX based upon Yellowstone Anglers recommendations. Didn't like it either. So just went with the Salt. Nothing wrong with ANY of those rods they just didn't work for me. 

And Backwater has solid advice on casting. A fishing cast done from a boat is different than a cast from the ground. The casting mechanics are pretty much the same but the body motion (or lack thereof) on a boat is critical for sight casting.


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## LindsayMarieFish

Go cast a TFO Mangrove if you have not. I have high end Sage and Loomis rods, but the 8 wt Mangrove I picked up is a new favorite. Took my Hatch off the Xi3 and stuck it on there and that's my now most used combo. Loomis and Sage are a whole different ball game from the Pro II. Find somewhere to test before you buy; just because something has a good representation doesn't mean it's going to fit your casting style.


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## LindsayMarieFish

candrew said:


> Mostly mosquito lagoon reds and some boca grande snook. Making a lot of long casts to either moving or tailing reds on the flat. it can get real windy in there too. xi3 seems to be a good option if I can find one. has anyone thrown a loomis crosscurrent?


Also in answer to your CC question - I have the CC GLX in a 9 and it's a fantastic rod. Absolute beast for wind and great for long, precise casts. Not much experience with it in an 8, but I expect it would be similar and a great lagoon stick. The Pro4X is another one you may want to consider. I'd still pick a Mangrove because it fits my style well. Mangroves have a shorter cork grip - some find it takes a little getting used to.


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## Backwater

So Ifsteve, I am not real crazy about the 8wt BVK either tho it's not that bad of a rod. But I did like the 9wt version of that rod. Also, I've thrown the 8wt Mangrove which has a lil more ass to the butt section than the BVK, but the tip on the BVK feels a little faster. That's why I liked the 9wt version of the BVK since it stiffened up the butt section. Here's the however.... However, I really liked the 10wt Mangrove and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a good and inexpensive all around use for a 10wt. It's just easy to throw for a 10wt and wouldn't break the bank.

The Salts are very nice but horribly expensive. If I was going to spend that kind of money, I would buy a Hardy Zephyrus which, IMO, is a much better rod.

Not crazy about the Xi3's tho they also throw nicely, I just feel the small stripping guides choke the final shoot!

I really think candrew shouldn't just go out and break the bank on a super high end, very expensive rod until he's ready to take advantage of it and if he "really" needs it. I think a good middle of the road rod or used older high end rod would suit his needs.

LindsayMarieFish, I personally love the GLX's but I think it's way too fast for most. They are also hard to load up quick and not a great stick for short casting. Loomis used to make an IMX which I liked better (a tad more progressive) and more of an all around rod. But I do like ultra fast rods like the GLX. But then again, not everyone is comfortable casting them.

Heck TFO makes a broomstick of a rod called a Axiom and most people would hate it (including myself) unless they over line the thing. I actually have one. It's very fast, looks and feels light and has that TiCrx coating on it, but feels broomsticky in-hand when casting a floating line for some reason. But I put on a intermediate sink tip line (a little heavier than a normal floater) and the thing came alive and shot like a cannon. Also adding a heavier fly reel to compensate to help balance it better would help it, instead of an ultra light weight reel. So after I made those adjustments, it felt good and was very accurate for some reason and I can flick the nose of a red with a fly just about every time with it but it doesn't load quickly. It makes a great open water rod for small pelagics spanish macks, bonita and jacks with a sink line (in my case, a clear intermediate). But again, it's not for everybody. Btw, I did a review about that rod here on Microskiff in a 8wt post.

Which brings me to another point. Take a fast rod everyone thinks is great and throw a sink line on it and then watch it become mushy and acts more like a wet noodle. Well maybe not that bad, but it can act like a rod that is over lined. So some rods are better than others for different things, different fishing conditions and different lines and also people's casting ability. It's true!


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## ifsteve

Backwater we are in total agreement. Everybody casts different. And even a lot of rods in a manufactures lines are vastly different between rod weights.....I have found this especially true on lower priced rods. I own an XI3 in 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 and other than the obvious difference once you get into the big game sticks they are all very similar. Yet I cast the BVK in a 6 and an 8 and found them to be very different feel to me.

I'd like to try the Zephrus. I cast the ProAxis in both a 10 and 12 and couldn't stand them. Yet my tarpon buddy loves them and cant cast my Xi3s for crap. Go figure.....lol


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## coconutgroves

One sometimes overlooked item when comparing rods is the line. Make sure to use the same line across each rod. Make sure it is your line of choice and it the correct grain of what you prefer. Nearly all lines seem to be made a little heavier than regulations, but it is good to know this so you can make an accurate assessment of the rod. There is no doubt that an 8 wt line that actually is a 10 wt line will load the rod better. There is more line weight in the air and during the load.

Good example - compare the two redfish lines from the "top" line makers. Rio comes in at 290 grains. That is a 10 weight line, not an 8. SA comes in at 224 grains, which is about a half line heavier, but not a full 9 weight line.

Bottom line on choosing a rod - go cast it. Don't worry about what gets good posts, or seems to be the hot rod. Casting is a style and preference, the only way to know is to throw. I've bought rods before based on recommendation and many were returned or sold. If your style is a long board, you don't want a short board, if you catch my drift....


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## Backwater

ifsteve said:


> Backwater we are in total agreement. Everybody casts different. And even a lot of rods in a manufactures lines are vastly different between rod weights.....I have found this especially true on lower priced rods. I own an XI3 in 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 and other than the obvious difference once you get into the big game sticks they are all very similar. Yet I cast the BVK in a 6 and an 8 and found them to be very different feel to me.
> 
> I'd like to try the Zephrus. I cast the ProAxis in both a 10 and 12 and couldn't stand them. Yet my tarpon buddy loves them and cant cast my Xi3s for crap. Go figure.....lol



Wow.... Nice line up ifsteve! Btw, what does ifsteve mean (I caught the steve part! ). You are absolutely right about the different changes in some rod lines. I had the same line up in a rod that Redington put out called a DFR back in the Jim Murphy days but actually designed my David Redington over in Stuart. That's back when Ari T Hart (reel designer from England for high end reels) was doing some work with them as well. Anyways, the green rod blanks came from New Zealand and they all acted relative to their size all the way up the line, except for the 15wt. I still have and fish the 9wt and the 12wt.

Andy Mills put an 8wt Zephyrus in my hands back this summer and said try this! So how could I refused that!  At first look, it appeared to have a broom stick for a butt section but the over all weight felt light. Also the large wire stripping guides reminded me of my old tarpon spinning rod when I was a kid, but I knew it was probably some sort of high end metal like Ti or something like that. The over all flow of the rod was simply amazing from my hand to the tip of the rod. Yes it was a one piece but he said they make a 4 piece version of the rod and it felt just like it. Then he handed me another rod and said this is my "go-to" tarpon rod. It was the 11wt version of that rod. Looked big but felt light in hand and flowed very nicely yet had serious authority. It was simply awesome! I didn't want to give it back to him after about 30 cast with it!  Do you remember where I said the Axiom looked light and thin and felt light when you picked it up but felt heavy in-hand? The Zephyrus looks and appears heavy but pick it up and it's weight was light and felt light and flowing for a fast rod in-hand while casting it.

I can tell you I've just thrown just about every high end rod out there, but that was the rod that spoke to me lately with the new line up from all the mfgs out there. That includes, Loomis, T&T, Sage, Scott, Orvis and others. But again, the Zephyrus is expensive, but not as much as some of the others out there. Don't get me wrong, I like rods from all those mfgs and can be happy with a butterstick catching bluegills in a pond. But my hair splitting may be worst than others and my casting style is different than others! 

Great point coconutgrove. X2!!! Go cast them side by side using the same line, especially the same you will be using out there in the field. That will be the difference in feel based on your casting style, which can be a big part of how you choose a rod (based on your casting style).

So going back to my original reply, go get tuned up by a good casting instructor who can identify your handicaps and correct them so you can be more productive. Then go out and cast/fish that correction until it becomes habit over time. Then you may find other differences you like in a rod when casting them side-by-side.


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## ifsteve

Backwater and all

The IF in my name is where I live in Idaho....Idaho Falls....

I think I am going to have to get my hands on that Hardy and give it a try!

Now I am going to go a little different direction with the latest discussion here about trying rods side by side using the same line. That has been my complaint with George Anderson and the Yellowstone Angler rod shootouts. Certainly if you have line X and that is what you *have *to use then by all means you should try rods using that line. However, that is not the best test of a rods casting capability in an anglers hands.

A true test would be to try each rod with several different lines. Just like rods, every line maker has their own taper designs. While most rods will throw most lines rated for their stated line weight the optimal is found by testing a number of lines. The problem is very few of us have the opportunity to go try multiple rods AND line combinations. But if you do it is well worth the effort. As an example, a good friend of mine owns a fly line company specializing in lines for two handed rods. I picked up a really nice Beulah Switch rod for my upcoming trip to Argentina. I was up in north Idaho this past week fishing with him for a couple of days. After looking at the line recommendations from Beulah I picked up a line from him for this rod. I had a chance to go cast it yesterday. DISASTER. Absolutely the wrong line for what I was trying. I am going to go try some different things again today but my first brush is that this line is waaaayyyyy too light for the rod even though its grain weight is right in the sweet spot per the rod builder.

When I am checking out a rod at my local shop we usually try several several combinations. For instance, if I think I would like a new 9wt then we would probably grab a Salt, NRX, and perhaps a TFO in both 8 and 9wts. And both RIO and SA fly lines. This gives me a pretty accurate idea of what I would be getting.


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## ifsteve

OP here you go!

http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/92-spey-classifieds/219946-sage-xi3-9-8wt.html


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## el9surf

ifsteve said:


> Backwater and all
> 
> The IF in my name is where I live in Idaho....Idaho Falls....
> 
> I think I am going to have to get my hands on that Hardy and give it a try!
> 
> Now I am going to go a little different direction with the latest discussion here about trying rods side by side using the same line. That has been my complaint with George Anderson and the Yellowstone Angler rod shootouts. Certainly if you have line X and that is what you *have *to use then by all means you should try rods using that line. However, that is not the best test of a rods casting capability in an anglers hands.
> 
> A true test would be to try each rod with several different lines. Just like rods, every line maker has their own taper designs. While most rods will throw most lines rated for their stated line weight the optimal is found by testing a number of lines. The problem is very few of us have the opportunity to go try multiple rods AND line combinations. But if you do it is well worth the effort. As an example, a good friend of mine owns a fly line company specializing in lines for two handed rods. I picked up a really nice Beulah Switch rod for my upcoming trip to Argentina. I was up in north Idaho this past week fishing with him for a couple of days. After looking at the line recommendations from Beulah I picked up a line from him for this rod. I had a chance to go cast it yesterday. DISASTER. Absolutely the wrong line for what I was trying. I am going to go try some different things again today but my first brush is that this line is waaaayyyyy too light for the rod even though its grain weight is right in the sweet spot per the rod builder.
> 
> When I am checking out a rod at my local shop we usually try several several combinations. For instance, if I think I would like a new 9wt then we would probably grab a Salt, NRX, and perhaps a TFO in both 8 and 9wts. And both RIO and SA fly lines. This gives me a pretty accurate idea of what I would be getting.


Rods are definitely personal in terms of feel. I have a hardy proaxis x 1pc 8wt with wulff btt. It is the best combo I have ever cast. Both finesse for short cast, or the ability to cast the whole line if necessary. Many of the rods listed previously are stiff and have the ability to cast a mile, but they lack feel and the ability to load for a quick 30 ft cast. 

Distance is nice to have but there are many situations where it isn't necessary. When you have a fish close and can't get your rod to load you will wish you had a different rod in your hand.


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## coconutgroves

el9surf said:


> Rods are definitely personal in terms of feel. I have a hardy proaxis x 1pc 8wt with wulff btt. It is the best combo I have ever cast. Both finesse for short cast, or the ability to cast the whole line if necessary. Many of the rods listed previously are stiff and have the ability to cast a mile, but they lack feel and the ability to load for a quick 30 ft cast.
> 
> Distance is nice to have but there are many situations where it isn't necessary. When you have a fish close and can't get your rod to load you will wish you had a different rod in your hand.


Spot on. There are distance rods for those conditions and others for "straight down" type of conditions. If anyone has ever fished the LA marsh, you are at the mercy of the water clarity. An "orangle glow" at 20 feet is hard to hit with a super stiff rod. They just don't load good at that short distance.

Good example - I am a Winston guy. I mainly fish the B2-MX - absolutely love them. I can get accurate close in and zing line. Just upgraded to the B3-SX. While it is more responsive, it lost it's close in range feel. It will make a great bonefish rod, but won't be a primary redfish rod on my boat because of that.


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## ifsteve

I have a different perspective and experience from my time chasing redfish in the LA marsh. There are a lot of times when the shot you get is indeed a fish that pops up out of nowhere and you have to cast right now 20ft (or less!!!) from the bow. No rod is going to load well for that shot. It isn't as much a cast as a fling the fly in the fish' face.


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## Classic_Matt

I wish the fish in the Mosquito lagoon were like the ones in the marsh. Our fish are afraid of their own shadow....


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## Backwater

Good point all you guys! ifsteve, it is amazing how many shop owners/attendants will look at you with a frown, like you are putting them out, if you go ask to throw 4 rods with 3 different lines for all 3, especially if you ask to not only cast on the lawn but on some sort of water where they have to test rods on. The other point is, not one shop will have a full line-up of rods. Most will be a dealer for only 2, maybe 3 lines of rod mgfs (and some only 1). So it's hard to get a good take across the board to really see what rod out there is the perfect rod for you. So it's probably easier going to a fly show where you have multiple shops and mfgs there. But to do it like you say, you'd have to tote a reel with a couple of spare spools and then fight the crowds for the casting pond(s). Even then, it's not totally ideal because you are throwing in a sterile environment. Take a rod and a certain line for instance. You may think it's the bomb inside an exhibit bldg. on a still water casting pond that's 2" deep, using a floater with a piece of yarn. Now take that same outfish throwing cross current in a ripping river or tide and use a sinking fly with a sink tip line in 15kt head winds.... and you might just start having regrets you bought it in the 1st place.  Or that shop owner that puts that stiff fast rod in your hands and shows you how it gave you 20 more ft to your cast. But then take it up in the mangroves and start swearing because you can't keep the fly outta the bushes! 

Buying a rod (or in this case, the perfect rod for you) on a whim, a few recommendations and a few cast on the lawn is nothing more than a crap shoot at best. It takes some time, some patience, some digging, plenty of testing and even some fishing with buddies to finally find the right rod for you. So I say don't run out and get rid of your old rod just yet. Use it to fish with and then take your time to find the right replacement or addition to that rod and what fits and feels best for you. That's all part of the fun of it. A friend once told me that's what finding the perfect golf clubs is like. But I wouldn't know! I guess if I had time to chase a little white ball around, I would be chasing the next fin around the corner! 

On another subject for any newbies tuning in, there are ways to load fast rods quickly or cast short quickly. A friend of mine told me not long ago that he can throw 70-90ft with no problems (he liked fast rods) but had the damndest time tossing to a fish 20 to 30ft from his rod tip. One method we saltwater fishermen all forget about is the ole roll cast. Basically by dragging your fly and rolling it out there, you are water loading the rod. You can also water load the rod. Also, if you slowly pick the fly out of the water instead of snatching it out of the water, it will start the loading process. When that line heads backwards, shoot it back, then shoot it forward once it rolls out, all in one cast with no false cast. Try learning how to do a "water haul" cast or water loading the rod by starting with the rod tip touching the water and taking all slack out which touching the water. SLOWLY lifting the line up with the rod and off the water. If you rip it off the water, you shock the rod and kill the loading process. 

Most cast around the boat can be made with no false cast. You can add a false cast for correction changes or take some tips from spey casters like a snake roll cast, snap D cast or an over head cast. The biggest mistake I see is people to is striping their fly almost to the rod tip, the leader or to a point where there is only a few of flyline left out of the tip top guide. So unless you have a fish following your fly, try keeping about 20 to 30ft of fly line out of the tip top guide (the rod tip guide) before you start lifting the line off the water. That's the weighted head of the fly line which will start loading up the rod when you start lifting it off the water. You'll find you only have to lift it up, let the line slide out behind you and then ease it back out there. 1 cast, no false casting, 20 to 40 ft, no problem! 

Ted


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## sjrobin

Backwater said:


> Good point all you guys! ifsteve, it is amazing how many shop owners/attendants will look at you with a frown, like you are putting them out, if you go ask to throw 4 rods with 3 different lines for all 3, especially if you ask to not only cast on the lawn but on some sort of water where they have to test rods on. The other point is, not one shop will have a full line-up of rods. Most will be a dealer for only 2, maybe 3 lines of rod mgfs (and some only 1). So it's hard to get a good take across the board to really see what rod out there is the perfect rod for you. So it's probably easier going to a fly show where you have multiple shops and mfgs there. But to do it like you say, you'd have to tote a reel with a couple of spare spools and then fight the crowds for the casting pond(s). Even then, it's not totally ideal because you are throwing in a sterile environment. Take a rod and a certain line for instance. You may think it's the bomb inside an exhibit bldg. on a still water casting pond that's 2" deep, using a floater with a piece of yarn. Now take that same outfish throwing cross current in a ripping river or tide and use a sinking fly with a sink tip line in 15kt head winds.... and you might just start having regrets you bought it in the 1st place.  Or that shop owner that puts that stiff fast rod in your hands and shows you how it gave you 20 more ft to your cast. But then take it up in the mangroves and start swearing because you can't keep the fly outta the bushes!
> 
> Buying a rod (or in this case, the perfect rod for you) on a whim, a few recommendations and a few cast on the lawn is nothing more than a crap shoot at best. It takes some time, some patience, some digging, plenty of testing and even some fishing with buddies to finally find the right rod for you. So I say don't run out and get rid of your old rod just yet. Use it to fish with and then take your time to find the right replacement or addition to that rod and what fits and feels best for you. That's all part of the fun of it. A friend once told me that's what finding the perfect golf clubs is like. But I wouldn't know! I guess if I had time to chase a little white ball around, I would be chasing the next fin around the corner!
> 
> On another subject for any newbies tuning in, there are ways to load fast rods quickly or cast short quickly. A friend of mine told me not long ago that he can throw 70-90ft with no problems (he liked fast rods) but had the damndest time tossing to a fish 20 to 30ft from his rod tip. One method we saltwater fishermen all forget about is the ole roll cast. Basically by dragging your fly and rolling it out there, you are water loading the rod. You can also water load the rod. Also, if you slowly pick the fly out of the water instead of snatching it out of the water, it will start the loading process. When that line heads backwards, shoot it back, then shoot it forward once it rolls out, all in one cast with no false cast. Try learning how to do a "water haul" cast or water loading the rod by starting with the rod tip touching the water and taking all slack out which touching the water. SLOWLY lifting the line up with the rod and off the water. If you rip it off the water, you shock the rod and kill the loading process.
> 
> Most cast around the boat can be made with no false cast. You can add a false cast for correction changes or take some tips from spey casters like a snake roll cast, snap D cast or an over head cast. The biggest mistake I see is people to is striping their fly almost to the rod tip, the leader or to a point where there is only a few of flyline left out of the tip top guide. So unless you have a fish following your fly, try keeping about 20 to 30ft of fly line out of the tip top guide (the rod tip guide) before you start lifting the line off the water. That's the weighted head of the fly line which will start loading up the rod when you start lifting it off the water. You'll find you only have to lift it up, let the line slide out behind you and then ease it back out there. 1 cast, no false casting, 20 to 40 ft, no problem!
> 
> Ted


If you expect close shots(redfish, speckled trout, sheepshead, uh... black drum) use heavy line on whatever rod you like and learn to cast or flip short fast. Fast is better than accurate. If the redfish are large, a rod with the power to handle the hot red is easier on the fish and you. You get to cast at more fish. Buy an extra spool for your reel with long distance light splash for spooky targets. I used an old Sage Graphite II two piece yesterday to catch a thirty inch redfish and she did not know she was in trouble for a while. Plus a little sporty/ no control at the skiff could have ended badly. My two cents.


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## sjrobin

sjrobin said:


> If you expect close shots(redfish, speckled trout, sheepshead, uh... black drum) use heavy line on whatever rod you like and learn to cast or flip short fast. Fast is better than accurate. If the redfish are large, a rod with the power to handle the hot red is easier on the fish and you. You get to cast at more fish. Buy an extra spool for your reel with long distance light splash for spooky targets. I used an old Sage Graphite II two piece yesterday to catch a thirty inch redfish and she did not know she was in trouble for a while. Plus a little sporty/ no control at the skiff could have ended badly. My two cents.


Pics from yesterday. Never mind . File size too large? I don't use photo bucket. Message: there was a problem uploading your file. From a Gopro still.


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## ifsteve

Ted and sjrobin.......spot on.....good posts. 

Exactly why my go to redfish rod for the marsh are the Salt 9wt and Xi3 10 wt. Rigged with two different flies. I can flick the fly quickly to that in close shot but reach out with a long cast when needed. One thing a guide showed me when I first started fishing the LA marsh. Being a tarpon guy I was used to having about 20' of fly line out the rod tip. Enough line to load the rod when you start casting. So thats how I started redfishing. Wrong move. With a 7-9 ft leader and that much fly line it's almost impossible to put the fly in the face of a redfish that pops up 15 ft from the boat. He quickly got me in the habit of only about 7ft of flyline out the tip.

And this is where Ted's water loading tip is key. When you do see a fish out there just roll cast the fly into the water and use a water load to help you with your first back cast. At that point you will have enough fly line out to load the road on further back casts. And like said......fewer false casts is better than more!


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## Backwater

ifsteve said:


> Ted and sjrobin.......spot on.....good posts.
> 
> Exactly why my go to redfish rod for the marsh are the Salt 9wt and Xi3 10 wt. Rigged with two different flies. I can flick the fly quickly to that in close shot but reach out with a long cast when needed. One thing a guide showed me when I first started fishing the LA marsh. Being a tarpon guy I was used to having about 20' of fly line out the rod tip. Enough line to load the rod when you start casting. So thats how I started redfishing. Wrong move. With a 7-9 ft leader and that much fly line it's almost impossible to put the fly in the face of a redfish that pops up 15 ft from the boat. He quickly got me in the habit of only about 7ft of flyline out the tip.
> 
> And this is where Ted's water loading tip is key. When you do see a fish out there just roll cast the fly into the water and use a water load to help you with your first back cast. At that point you will have enough fly line out to load the road on further back casts. And like said......fewer false casts is better than more!



One thing to add ifsteve, you being a trout guy as well, you can do a short aerial mend with 20ft or flyline out to hit a 15ft target, just by laying the rod to one side before it lands, thereby taking some flyline in. Also, many people are afraid to cast beyond the fish and then work the fly by the fish. That's alot better then having a moving target out 40-50ft out in front of you and you are jammed up back at the boat because you have all your flyline in your guides and nothing to cast.  Remember folks, you are casting the flyline and "not" the fly itself!


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## RunningOnEmpty

The Redington Predator is fast and it can be found new on ebay for around $200. I fish with Redington rods and they work great for me and I don't worry about breaking them.


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## coconutgroves

ifsteve - you are right, that straight down shot I posted about was the "fish at 10 feet" type fish - no rod loads at that. 20'? Maybe softer rods will have a little better flex and you'll feel it, but it won't be a load. That is why there is the overhead reach cast - works on any rod and you can dunk the fly straight down and out to around 20'. It isn't pretty, hell, it really isn't a cast, it's a skilled carnival trick that's your best shot at getting the prize. Hard to explain with an image or video, I'll try to get one.


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## josh_rennie

I love Scott fly rods along with g loomis but that's just me I have a Scott s4s and a g loomis cc pro 1 and they're my 2 favorite rods I've ever fished. They are both really fast cannons which I like and I have a lot of confidence in them but that's me. just do like they said go test them out and whichever feels best for you run with it you could even check eBay or the threads on this forum and others to get one at a better price if you're not in a rush you can get a lot of bang for your buck


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## Backwater

RunningOnEmpty said:


> The Redington Predator is fast and it can be found new on ebay for around $200. I fish with Redington rods and they work great for me and I don't worry about breaking them.


I also like the Predators for what they are for the price range. I also like the Scott s4s, but you can buy 2 Predators for the price of the Scott. Just sayin.... Remember, this guy is coming from a $170 rod.

coconutgroves, good point!  I suspect you can take the handle off your mop tie on a piece of cord and a fly on the other end and accomplish the same thing and will be just as ugly of a cast as with an $1100 outfit! lol ~thinks~ humm... I wonder if I can package that up and sell them for about $50 a stick? *Coming soon, speciality "close quarter fly stick" *(need something catchy like the "Butter Stick!").


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## josh_rennie

I haven't ever thrown a Redington but I was looking at the voyant at a local store in a 9wt and it seemed really nice for the price


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## Backwater

josh_rennie said:


> I haven't ever thrown a Redington but I was looking at the voyant at a local store in a 9wt and it seemed really nice for the price


Josh, if you are plunking flies at redfish like in your profile, pic, then a voyant might not be the rod for you. The Predator is more of an all around saltwater rod. It has back bone for lifting bigger fish and casting heavier flies and lines for a fast rod, but it's not so ultra fast that you can't throw close range. So it's got the nads to throw distance and the progressiveness to throw close range. Plus, it's an easy rod to throw. And with them discounting it down to $200 like someone said on this thread, I give it a 2 thumbs up!

The Voyant is fast but not ultra fast and is more of a finesse rod. Easy casting and throws smaller flies on floating line better than heavy closures with intermediate lines on calmer days. The Voyant is a superb sea trout, ladyfish, spanish macks, micro poonies and small redfish rod. Predators are more for mangrove and dock snook, bigger reds and junk yard dog jacks, bonitas/ lil tunnies, small poons using bigger flies, heavier lines on windier days.


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## RunningOnEmpty

My next rod will be a 6wt Predator or another Vapen. I love my 8wt Vapen and it was only $230 online vs $350 retail.


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## josh_rennie

Backwater said:


> Josh, if you are plunking flies at redfish like in your profile, pic, then a voyant might not be the rod for you. The Predator is more of an all around saltwater rod. It has back bone for lifting bigger fish and casting heavier flies and lines for a fast rod, but it's not so ultra fast that you can't throw close range. So it's got the nads to throw distance and the progressiveness to throw close range. Plus, it's an easy rod to throw. And with them discounting it down to $200 like someone said on this thread, I give it a 2 thumbs up!
> 
> The Voyant is fast but not ultra fast and is more of a finesse rod. Easy casting and throws smaller flies on floating line better than heavy closures with intermediate lines on calmer days. The Voyant is a superb sea trout, ladyfish, spanish macks, micro poonies and small redfish rod. Predators are more for mangrove and dock snook, bigger reds and junk yard dog jacks, bonitas/ lil tunnies, small poons using bigger flies, heavier lines on windier days.


Oh okay, I actually caught that redfish in my pic on a 6wt s4s on a calm day that was a blast but does bass pro carry Reddington predators? That's really the closest place to me other than mangrove outfitters in Naples I'd like to check them out in kinda looking for a 10 11 or 12 at for tarpon and super windy days for a 10 I was looking more at the g loomis cc for one of those since they're fast action and cast big flies in the wind well but all the bigger rods are more stuff of course so that might be a cheaper alternative, I'd also like to try the mangrove and bvk in those weights I had the mangrove 7wt and it just wasn't the rod for me not enough punch but I think it'd be better in a bigger rod it wouldn't be too stiff so it would still have some feel


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## ifsteve

Josh if you are looking for a good 10 wt that doesn't break the bank see if you can find a used TFO TiCrX. One of the few lower priced rods that truly felt like a much higher end rod.


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## RunningOnEmpty

Mangrove outfitters has a few Predators in stock.


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## Backwater

RunningOnEmpty said:


> My next rod will be a 6wt Predator or another Vapen. I love my 8wt Vapen and it was only $230 online vs $350 retail.


I got a 6wt Vapen as a replacement for a higher end 6wt that I owned which the reel set busted (10yr old rod). The Vapen was nice but not the same as the other rod. So I sold it. I did try the 8wt Vapen this summer and it seemed ok, but I would try the Predator and the Vapen side by side to see which one you like better.


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## RunningOnEmpty

I'm enjoying rods with a little more feel these days. 15 years ago I wanted the top Sage rods. Age really changes a persons take on things.


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## Backwater

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I'm enjoying rods with a little more feel these days. 15 years ago I wanted the top Sage rods. Age really changes a persons take on things.


Dude, that is so true with me too. I've owned some of the fastest rods in the industry in the past and even still have a few. But I've come full circle and actually enjoy casting rods that flow more and you can feel whats going on.


Josh, if you are looking at 10wts, try throwing a 10wt Mangrove as well, aside from your side by side test of the Predator vs Vapen (sounds like bad movie title. lol). The Vapen might be faster than the other 2, but not sure which one will feel better "to you" in-hand while casting and a smoother, easier casting rod for you. Remember, 10wt lines are significantly heavier and harder to cast for long periods of time. That's why I like a more progressive rod for a 10wt like what runningonempty said, to help it to be easier to cast for longer periods of time. You may even consider a 9wt for a Glades stick to throw bigger flies and cut the wind without wearing you out, casting a 10wt all day.


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## paint it black

I have the following 8wt's

TFO Pro 2 (back up to the back up)
Some cheap BPS rod that some old timer had recommended while I was at BPS one day, throws incredibly (used to use this as my main rod, has now been retired)
Sage Salt (feels great when theres not a lot of wind, I rarely use it in real world conditions, if it's blowing 10knts, it's become the back up rod)
MarshFly Journeyman (absolutely loving this rod, been throwing it for a few months, feels just like the Salt but has balls in the wind where the Salt doesn't.)

Granted, I have primarily been throwing a 5wt for a couple months now, but the Journeyman has been impressive. The reason why I started fishing the MarshFly rods is because of how nice the 8wt Journeyman feels and throws. I also have the Journeyman 10wt which is a whole other beast. 
The Journeyman 5wt is a little too slow for my liking for the scenarios we've put it in (high winds in the middle of the glades), but we've been trying out several prototypes while filming the 5wt Chronicles, they have developed a faster saltwater 5wt that is on point. 

If you're at all interested in the Sage Salt, I HIGHLY recommend you cast the MarshFly Journeyman 8wt and compare it. I own both, and the Journeyman feels the same, but with more power in windy conditions. 

And I'm sure you'll notice I don't endorse many companies, as I have to truly believe in a product and the people behind it to publicly endorse anything. 


Another rod I'd recommend you taking a good look at is the Scott Meridian. I casted this thing at ICAST / IFTD and it felt phenomenal. It was my favorite rod to cast at the show. After tossing several rods, I kept going back to the Meridian, casting out of the pond into the walkway repeated with ease.


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## Backwater

I loved the Meridian too when I threw it at iCast. But the Hardy Zephyrus had the edge over it IMO.

I'd like to try that Marshfly Journeyman and see how it compares. Who carries them?


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## ifsteve

I had never heard of Marshman so I looked them up online. Says their rods are built in Texas. Anybody know the whole story here. Are they "building" as in assembling rods on blanks made some where else or do they actually manufacture their own blanks?


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## josh_rennie

I would really really really like to try the meridian i might have to drive to boca grande outfitters to try one out. That's the closest place to me that carry's Scott fly rods like I said I have the s4s and love it. 

I trust your word on the marsh fly because I see what kind of work you put it through I'd like to try that one out as well but does anyone carry them or is it just like you gotta go for it?


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## billhempel

Do not pass by used Sage, Thomas & Thomas, Scott rods and a few other older high end models. I have NRX's and love them, but are expensive. These are long proven rods and some beat the pants off a lot of those mentioned in this dicussion. I was casting my old Thomas & Thomas Vector 9wt this evening and was reawakened to its phenominal capabiliy to cast a fly precisely and with amazing tight looped speed.


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## Backwater

I also went by the new BPS in Brandon and picked up both the Mangrove and the BVK in 9wts The BVK definitely felt like a faster rod. Josh, if I was only bringing one rod to the fight if I were fishing the Glades (aside for tarpon, a 9wt is my goto stick all around since you can throw bigger flies and horse the bigger fish out of the mangroves better, without being a little light on the lifting strength or get worn out from throwing a 10wt all day.

So you guys got lots of good choices. Go throw them and tell us what you think.


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## josh_rennie

My dad has the bvk in an 8wt it's pretty nice I've thrown it quite a bit, I think I threw a 9wt bvk one time that my buddy has, actually I know he was trying to sell it at one point I wonder if he still has it I'll have to ask him but yeah I agree get out there throw as many as possible and go with the one that feels best


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## jsnipes

I casted a Meridian 8wt two weekends ago -- thing throws some nice loops! If I were buying a new 8 right now, that's probably what I'd get. And typically a Sage guy.


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## paint it black

I use the BVK for my 9wt. I absolutely love that rod. It's a completely different animal than the BVK 8wt.


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## Backwater

paint it black said:


> I use the BVK for my 9wt. I absolutely love that rod. It's a completely different animal than the BVK 8wt.


See, I knew I wasn't the only one that noticed that! 

Eric, keep that crazy ass artwork up! Love that stuff!!!

Hey boys, check his stuff out! It's crazy cool!

http://estradaart.com/


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## TampaFlyGirl

josh_rennie said:


> Oh okay, I actually caught that redfish in my pic on a 6wt s4s on a calm day that was a blast but does bass pro carry Reddington predators? That's really the closest place to me other than mangrove outfitters in Naples I'd like to check them out in kinda looking for a 10 11 or 12 at for tarpon and super windy days for a 10 I was looking more at the g loomis cc for one of those since they're fast action and cast big flies in the wind well but all the bigger rods are more stuff of course so that might be a cheaper alternative, I'd also like to try the mangrove and bvk in those weights I had the mangrove 7wt and it just wasn't the rod for me not enough punch but I think it'd be better in a bigger rod it wouldn't be too stiff so it would still have some feel


 
Josh, Bass Pro does carry Redington Predators. The store in Brandon has them.


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## Backwater

TampaFlyGirl said:


> Josh, Bass Pro does carry Redington Predators. The store in Brandon has them.


Hey TampaFlyGirl, I was just there on Sunday and saw they had Redington Paths and Vapens but no Predators, according to one of the guys in the fly shop section. So I hear you are working as one of their pros out of the Fly Dept.! Congrats!


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## crboggs

I recently cast a TFO Mangrove and Redington Predator side by side...but in the 6wt size, not 8 wt.

I much preferred the Predator. It felt a little faster to me.

Full disclosure, my normal 8wt is a 4 piece NRX...so maybe I'm just more accustomed to that sort of action.


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## SC on the FLY

billhempel said:


> Do not pass by used Sage, Thomas & Thomas, Scott rods and a few other older high end models. I have NRX's and love them, but are expensive. These are long proven rods and some beat the pants off a lot of those mentioned in this dicussion. I was casting my old Thomas & Thomas Vector 9wt this evening and was reawakened to its phenominal capabiliy to cast a fly precisely and with amazing tight looped speed.


I have a TnT vector in a 5wt and its a beast


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## SC on the FLY

The sage xp is a nice rod too , can find for cheap , I want to check out some of the rods by Clutch as well , the Scott Meridian looks nice too , Redington and TFO are great value rods , have some Sage Salts and a Xi3 in 8wts as well, like them


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## RunningOnEmpty

crboggs said:


> I recently cast a TFO Mangrove and Redington Predator side by side...but in the 6wt size, not 8 wt.
> 
> I much preferred the Predator. It felt a little faster to me.
> 
> Full disclosure, my normal 8wt is a 4 piece NRX...so maybe I'm just more accustomed to that sort of action.


I sold my 8wt Mangrove shortly after buying it. It just didn't work for me? It worked good for fighting strong fish, but the casting fell very short.


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## ifsteve

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I sold my 8wt Mangrove *shortly after buying it*. It just didn't work for me? It worked good for fighting strong fish, but the casting fell very short.


And IMO herein lies the key. There is nothing wrong with buying a rod and deciding it just doesn't work for you. Sell it and the sooner the better. The next guy might well find it to be perfect for him/her and you will get a better return on your money if you sell it while its still in like new shape. I just bought a Beulah switch rod. No way I could try one out I just had to take a gamble. So I bought one. After three casting sessions it was clear it was not going to work for me so I quickly sold it for $10 more than I paid for it. Enough to cover the shipping. I could have held on to it for six months while it just lost value but what's the point. It wasn't magically going to evolve intself into a tool I liked. So try if you can but if you can't then sometimes you just take a shot. But if the shot falls short then don't make matters worse by just holding on to it. Cut your losses and move on to something else. Life is too short to fish with rods that don't work for you!


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## Backwater

ifsteve said:


> And IMO herein lies the key. There is nothing wrong with buying a rod and deciding it just doesn't work for you. Sell it and the sooner the better. The next guy might well find it to be perfect for him/her and you will get a better return on your money if you sell it while its still in like new shape. I just bought a Beulah switch rod. No way I could try one out I just had to take a gamble. So I bought one. After three casting sessions it was clear it was not going to work for me so I quickly sold it for $10 more than I paid for it. Enough to cover the shipping. I could have held on to it for six months while it just lost value but what's the point. It wasn't magically going to evolve intself into a tool I liked. So try if you can but if you can't then sometimes you just take a shot. But if the shot falls short then don't make matters worse by just holding on to it. Cut your losses and move on to something else. Life is too short to fish with rods that don't work for you!


Steve, good point. However, it can get costly and you have the chance of loosing $$ on the re-sale. I think it would be ok if it's a last resort or at least a temp fix. But if you have the chance to shop the shops and test what they have, then go to a fly show or 2, you will find rods that work for you for the long term. That's why I am a big advocate for buying mid price rods or good recommended used rods for the interim until you find your sweetheart.


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## sjrobin

ifsteve said:


> And IMO herein lies the key. There is nothing wrong with buying a rod and deciding it just doesn't work for you. Sell it and the sooner the better. The next guy might well find it to be perfect for him/her and you will get a better return on your money if you sell it while its still in like new shape. I just bought a Beulah switch rod. No way I could try one out I just had to take a gamble. So I bought one. After three casting sessions it was clear it was not going to work for me so I quickly sold it for $10 more than I paid for it. Enough to cover the shipping. I could have held on to it for six months while it just lost value but what's the point. It wasn't magically going to evolve intself into a tool I liked. So try if you can but if you can't then sometimes you just take a shot. But if the shot falls short then don't make matters worse by just holding on to it. Cut your losses and move on to something else. Life is too short to fish with rods that don't work for you!


I agree. Most good quality used fly rods sell quickly. And no substitute for using the rod in real world conditions. Good guides will also have a variety of long rods to try and money spent on a guided trip may change your mind about spending money on your "dream" fly rod.


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## ifsteve

Backwater, totally right. And there is no better way to go than to just try as many rods as you can before you decide. And yes selling a rod is likely to cost you especially if you buy a higher end rod. But as sjrobin said, you can usually sell a good rod fairly quickly.

But here is the bottom line. Lets say you buy a $850 rod and after you fish it a couple of times it just isn't what you thought it was. So whats better. Sell it for $500 or have it sitting in the closet gathering dust. In the former you are ultimately out $350 but you still have $500 to put toward something else. In the later case you are ought the entire $850.


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## jmrodandgun

paint it black said:


> MarshFly Journeyman


How do you like this rod? I was considering ordering one as a gift for a friend who likes boutique rod shop rods but I never could figure out what blank they were building on. As far as I can tell they are using a stock blank from overseas but I could be wrong.


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## paint it black

jmrodandgun said:


> How do you like this rod? I was considering ordering one as a gift for a friend who likes boutique rod shop rods but I never could figure out what blank they were building on. As far as I can tell they are using a stock blank from overseas but I could be wrong.


As far as I know, they are not overseas blanks. They get their blanks from the same manufacturer in the states that builds the blanks for the other guys. They tell their supplier what they need out of a blank and come up with the perfect blank for what they are looking for, then Dave builds the rods himself to his specs, playing with different things to get the right feel and action that they are looking for out of the blank. They have changed things up on the Journeyman from the first builds, and it has changed it's performance. For my use of these rods, so far I am loving the 8wt and 10wt Journeyman's. The 5wt is a little slower than I like for casting on a flat in the wind. So they sent me a different 5wt that would better suit my needs, and I love it. I was in the glades yesterday casting in 20knt winds with a 5wt into the wind at tailing redfish. Granted, it can't pick up as much line quickly like an 8wt could, but that fly lands more softly on the weary fish.


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## ifsteve

Paint it Black you almost sound like an informercial for Marshfly.....lol. Sounds like pretty decent rod....where's the pics of the tailing reds!!!


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## paint it black

ifsteve said:


> Paint it Black you almost sound like an informercial for Marshfly.....lol. Sounds like pretty decent rod....where's the pics of the tailing reds!!!


I'm not an infomercial. I've spoken to them quite a bit about their operation. I have gotten several offers from rod companies, some much larger companies on the market, but these guys seem legit, and I like their product. It's no secret, Marshfly is the rod sponsor on my web series (The 5wt Chronicles); They make a nice rod, they seem like cool guys, I will support them.


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## ifsteve

ifsteve said:


> Paint it Black you almost sound like an informercial for Marshfly.....lol. Sounds like pretty decent rod....where's the pics o
> 
> 
> paint it black said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not an infomercial. I've spoken to them quite a bit about their operation. I have gotten several offers from rod companies, some much larger companies on the market, but these guys seem legit, and I like their product. It's no secret, Marshfly is the rod sponsor on my web series (The 5wt Chronicles); They make a nice rod, they seem like cool guys, I will support them.
> 
> 
> 
> f the tailing reds!!!
Click to expand...

Hey just pulling your chain a little. As long as guys know you get sponsored by a company then no problem. But I stand by my first comment. Where's the redfish pics! Brighten up the day for those of us stuck inland......lol


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## jmrodandgun

paint it black said:


> As far as I know, they are not overseas blanks. They get their blanks from the same manufacturer in the states that builds the blanks for the other guys. They tell their supplier what they need out of a blank and come up with the perfect blank for what they are looking for, then Dave builds the rods himself to his specs, playing with different things to get the right feel and action that they are looking for out of the blank. They have changed things up on the Journeyman from the first builds, and it has changed it's performance. For my use of these rods, so far I am loving the 8wt and 10wt Journeyman's. The 5wt is a little slower than I like for casting on a flat in the wind. So they sent me a different 5wt that would better suit my needs, and I love it. I was in the glades yesterday casting in 20knt winds with a 5wt into the wind at tailing redfish. Granted, it can't pick up as much line quickly like an 8wt could, but that fly lands more softly on the weary fish.


Cool. I might have to order one. Do they have a warranty program?


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## billhempel

Correction: I have a TnT vector in a 9wt and its a beast


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## Agm984

Like most people are saying you need to go to your local shop and throw each and every rod you are into. I got started with some setups from Colton fly. After fishing them for awhile they really weren't for me. (If anyone wants my unbiased opinions pm me) I ended up with a Scott Tidal. Great price point under 500 bucks. Got it in an 8 wt and paired with an Abel Super 8.


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## Wolffie

paint it black said:


> As far as I know, they are not overseas blanks. They get their blanks from the same manufacturer in the states that builds the blanks for the other guys. They tell their supplier what they need out of a blank and come up with the perfect blank for what they are looking for, then Dave builds the rods himself to his specs, playing with different things to get the right feel and action that they are looking for out of the blank. They have changed things up on the Journeyman from the first builds, and it has changed it's performance. For my use of these rods, so far I am loving the 8wt and 10wt Journeyman's. The 5wt is a little slower than I like for casting on a flat in the wind. So they sent me a different 5wt that would better suit my needs, and I love it. I was in the glades yesterday casting in 20knt winds with a 5wt into the wind at tailing redfish. Granted, it can't pick up as much line quickly like an 8wt could, but that fly lands more softly on the weary fish.


It seems as though they are using Rainshadow (formerly Batson) blanks. Though that's my own conclusion after doing some internet research on them. I can't prove it. I have the 10wt and I like it! Though I've only lawn cast it. It's a beautiful rod, that feels like a much more expensive rod at a great price and it throws a an Air-Flo Chard Grand Slam line (already had it sitting in a box for a year or so) beautifully! My only qualms with them is that it seemed like they could really care less to sell me a fly rod. It took three months of what felt like pestering them before I could finally place the order.


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## Backwater

Wolffie said:


> It seems as though they are using Rainshadow (formerly Batson) blanks. Though that's my own conclusion after doing some internet research on them. I can't prove it. I have the 10wt and I like it! Though I've only lawn cast it. It's a beautiful rod, that feels like a much more expensive rod at a great price and it throws a an Air-Flo Chard Grand Slam line (already had it sitting in a box for a year or so) beautifully! My only qualms with them is that it seemed like they could really care less to sell me a fly rod. It took three months of what felt like pestering them before I could finally place the order.


The main issue I see down here in Florida is there is nowhere for you to try one.


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## Backwater

Agm984 said:


> Like most people are saying you need to go to your local shop and throw each and every rod you are into. I got started with some setups from Colton fly. After fishing them for awhile they really weren't for me. (If anyone wants my unbiased opinions pm me) I ended up with a Scott Tidal. Great price point under 500 bucks. Got it in an 8 wt and paired with an Abel Super 8.


I threw the 8wt Tidal and thought it was a very nice casting rod for the money. It also has backbone but doesn't feel heavy on the swing like other backbone rods. If you like a little feel in your saltwater rod without feeling too fast or too much like a broomstick, then this is a great rod for that. Yes your right, it's a great moderate fast rod that has nice feel and still good lifting strenght. I haven't tried them yet but I bet their bigger rods in the Tidal series are superb casters as well. (I like a rod with a little more feel in the bigger rods). I wish it was priced a little less for more people to get on-board with that rod. But oh well. Still..... 2 thumbs up! Scott has done a great job over the years.


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## Wolffie

Backwater said:


> The main issue I see down here in Florida is there is nowhere for you to try one.


That's not a problem unique to Florida. I couldn't try it either. Just wanted one based on reviews and asking PIB about his experience with it. It was a gamble. If it didn't work, I could sell it to recoup part of the investment. Something to consider. 

I think it paid off. I like it! I actually bought a BVK 10wt because I didn't think the Marshfly would materialize. I still need to cast them side by side but i liked the journeyman from the first time I picked it up. It's too cold here now for me to go outside and do a comparison. And way too cold to get on the water...


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## Backwater

Wolffie said:


> That's not a problem unique to Florida. I couldn't try it either. Just wanted one based on reviews and asking PIB about his experience with it. It was a gamble. If it didn't work, I could sell it to recoup part of the investment. Something to consider.
> 
> I think it paid off. I like it! I actually bought a BVK 10wt because I didn't think the Marshfly would materialize. I still need to cast them side by side but i liked the journeyman from the first time I picked it up. It's too cold here now for me to go outside and do a comparison. And way too cold to get on the water...


Yea it was too cold down here too, being in the 60's! Ha! Now getting back in the mid 70's so I guess it's time to hit the water again!  Sorry to all you blue noses up there! Ha! 

So did you get the 10wt Journeyman? I know most of your guys up north don't like fast rods and the BVK in a 10wt is fast and when you get into that rod weight class, they start becoming stiffer(starting with the 9wts) than the 8wts and under. I have a feeling that the 10wt Journeyman will be a little easier to cast since I believe it seems to lean towards mod fast, than fast. That will give a little more parabolic flow to the rod so you can feel it better and not work your wrist and shoulders as much. It will be interesting to see your comparison, but only if you are comparing 10wt vs 10wt.

I talk to someone at Marshfly and they want a sizable deposit to try out the rod. I'm not sure if I'm down with that just to "try it out" but I understand why they do it. Still Availability to shops and demos are tough. You're not the 1st person I've heard that they are slow responding to purchase request and getting it shipped in a timely manner. But if you are in no hurry and want the rod, then I guess... _"say la vie!"_


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