# 10wt rod help



## brittg (Jan 17, 2013)

Looking to upgrade some gear. Considering a used Hardy, Scott or Loomis NRX 10wt rod. Any feedback would be appreciated.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

The Loomis CC pro 1's are great. Can beat em for the money. If you are an expert you'll love the NRX.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

I have a one piece Hardy. It may be one of the coolest rods that I own. I can't say enough good about the rod and will probably never buy another rod that isn't one piece.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Cast them, and I would include a Sage Xi3 or Salt too, and get the one that casts best with you behind the wheel. What works for one guy may or may not be the best rod for you.


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## floridascuba (Mar 15, 2012)

there is a crosscurrent pro 1 on FS for 275 in Broward. I have been wanting to get one. But since I haven't got to fly fish as much as I want, I am going to get a 1 piece 8 wt and sell my St Croix 3 piece before getting a 10.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Most fly fishermen do not have a 10wt in their arsonal.  Those who do will only use it no more than 5 to 10% of the time, if that.  A lot of those times you might have been able to get by with your 9wt.  The opportunities to use them will be about 5 to 10% of the time tops, unless you live on or near waters that houses big fish.  If not, then you have to travel to those waters, either by car or flying.  So for about 90 to 95% of those people who want a 10wt but don't have big fish in their back yard or home waters or the use of big heavy or bushy flies, then a 1 piece rod is not practical, especially traveling to those big fish.

The closest thing I've found to a 1 piece rod that can still travel and stow is a 3 piece.  The harmonics help to dampen the vibrations, much like a 1 piece (even better than a 2 piece IMO).  A rod with well made ferrals (not big bulky ones) will help a rod to flow better. But they are hard to get on an airplane anymore. Even a 4 piece is a challenge to take as a carry-on.

Also, a 10wt can be a completely different animal than anything you are use to.  You may love a certain line of rod, then pick up the same rod in a 10wt and you will hate it.  This is where you need to spend quality time trowing different rods to see what rod feels best in-hand and will not fatigue you more. Better to throw a friends rod that you are fishing with to see if you like it or not in "real world" conditions, or at least ask your dealer if he has a pond to throw the rod on.

Remember, a 10wt line is significantly heavier and picks on muscles in you hand and forearm that you didn't know you had.  Know which line you are going to use?  Floater, intermediate, full sink....  How about the flies?  Are they bushy, long and wind resistant, small and light or heavy weighted?  Casting some fluff on a lawn with a light floater will feel totally better than dredging a heavier sink line with a submarine for a clouser in the surf.

So with that in mind, each rod will behave differently in different conditions.  Normally, I love an extremely fast rod where I fish in the salt.  I like a slower tempo rod for freshwater.  My 12wt tarpon rod is fast and has a lot of lifting power.  but I like a more progressive tapered 10wt (easier to cast) since I will normally has cast more than a 12wt but less than a lighter 9wt. and need something that is easier in the hand and on my forearm when casting those heavier 10wt lines.  So I feel this is the hardest rod to make a good choice and buy.  So take your time and ask yourself more questions and base the majority of uses to the rod for those uses.  Do you want something easier to cast all day, do you need extreme distances, do you need heavier lifting power, are your flies small and light or heavy and bushy?  One mfg may have 4 10wts all with different properties.  Take a look at TFO rod charts.  That is an example on where you can look at each rod's performances based on distance, presentation and lifting power.  Their rod that has the most lifting power is big and clunky to throw.  But the Axiom is nice and light but has no lifting strength.

Are you fishing steelies in a shallow river, stripers in the NE surf, throwing big bushy flies at 2 to 6 lb fish, small crab patterns at big permit on the flats, lifting big bull redfish out of 30ft deep channels, throwing nothing more than a gotcha at bones on a flat with 25mph tailing winds , hooking 20 to 40lb tarpon at night in the channel bridge lights or pulling big snook with short cast out of the mangrove roots?  :-/ I can't tell you how many rods I've seen broken because they were using it as a lifting rod with big or dredging fish from a boat in deep water. Or people get worn out since the rod they have was heavy and bulky and you needed to blind cast all day to smaller fish on the beach. :-[

I know, I know, too many questions to ask yourself.   But base your rod choice for the majority of your uses and you will find the perfect rod for you.

For me, that might mean going back to certain rods that were discontinued.  The bad?  They are hard to find and may not still carry a warranty.  The good?  They can be had in great shape for less than 1/2 price of retail.  Why buy top brands new if you are hardly going to use it?  If you are going to use and abuse it, most of them will still have warranty and can be swapped for a current model if broken by the mfg..  Otherwise, take a look at the middle of the road lines (remember, you will not be using it that much).  Higher end Redington or TFO.  I like many lines of the high end rods.  Scott, Sage, Loomis, Orvis, T&T....   But how often will you be using it?  Over the 25yrs or so of FFing, my policy I've developed for "myself" is if I'm going to buy a rod that I'm not going to use that often, then $2-300 for a rod is max I will invest in it.  That's why I like the high end (new) Redington or TFO or a good quality slightly used high end rod from the other well known mfgs.

That way, you can find a nice 10wt that you will only use here or there and not break the bank. The same goes for the reels. Redington Delta, TFO BVK, Orvis Hydros, Nautilus....  Light, middle of the road, large arbor.... And don't forget the flyline. I've seen guys with $1000 outfits with crap line and haven't learn to cast it. Invest in a very quality line for what you will be doing the majority of your fishing with that 10wt outfit. Also, learn to cast a heavier rod. The techniques are somewhat different to hang in there and requires you to use and exercise muscles you didn't know you had.

If you answer these questions with the majority of what you will be using it for, then you will find folks like myself that will come out of the woodwork to give you more precise direction and experience with that setup and fishing.

Cheers!


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

That is the best explanation of 10 wt rod need I've ever had the pleasure to read. Someone needs to buy that from you and spread it around.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Thanks ByFly! Just trying to do my part to promote the sport that I love. Well also a nudge to those guys who run and gun first and ask questions later!


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## Poon4u (May 19, 2014)

Sage salt 10wt there is no equal! Tarpon permit Hawaii bones and Xmas island GT's will all agree. There is no comparison!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Couldn't disagree more about the usefulness of that l important 10wt.... I consider it a must have tool. In fact, I can get by with only two sticks -an 8wt and a 10wt. The small rod will have a floater and the big stick will have an intermediate line.

The 10wt is particularly useful for larger flies or for really windy days when lighter rods will have you struggling all day long... We routinely take tarpon up to 80lbs on that same rod.

My favorite -10 wt I built up on Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank. The best low cost one is a TFO TicrX model that I hand to my anglers each day....


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## Blatattack (Aug 23, 2012)

In his explanation he describes that, "unless you live near big fish water" there isn't a real need for the 10wt. Its all personal preference but it *IS* an in between size. For me in Orlando I could do an 8 & 12. some people will use the 11wt because they hate throwing the 12 all day. I like to have the big 12 for those fish. Backwater hit the nail on the head with this one. It might be a must have tool to you because you guide Oceanside for permit all day.... you can take tarpon that are up to 80lbs but in season those are the small males, what happens when a big female takes an interest?


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Blackwater said "most fly fisherman do not have a 10 wt in their arsenal....those that do use it less than 5 or 10% or the time.

The first statement is really based upon what fly fisherman you are talking about. This forum is mostly about saltwater fishing and most every saltwater flyrodder I know (and I know a lot of them) have 10 wts. The second part depends a whole lot on where you are fishing and what fish you are targeting.  I use my 10 wt more than any other rod I own when fishing saltwater.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Skiff in Idaho, where do you live?  What do you fish for?  Believe it or not, most people who fly fish in saltwater do not live on choice saltwater with big fat fishies swimming in it like the good capt Lemay, capt Rob, myself or some of these crazy flyfishing nuts on this board.  lol, sorry guys, JK    

Those guys who don't live on those waters with big pig for fish or throwing big heavy or bulky flies, have to travel to those places.  This original thread was focused around 1 piece 10wt rods, which are impractical to have for travel rods for those guys who need to tool over to those waters where you need a 10wt for.  Hence, my lengthy and long winded reply.   

Capt Lemay, you are a cool capt and I have loads of respect for you.  You even have a poon fly named after you (which I saw years ago).  Anyways, there are a lot of philosophies of over gunning, under gunning, etc....  what are the must have 1 or 2 rods if you can only bring 1 or 2 rods...

Again, most guys don't live in the south tip of Florida, IRL, southern LA, Montauk or on a king salmon river in British Columbia.  So for those poor unfortunate souls that don't live on or near waters such as those, it's not practical to have a 1 piece 10wt and travel to such places.  I didn't say it's not necessary to have a 10wt, I just merely stated that it's not practical to;

a.)  own/ buy a 1 piece 10wt unless you live on or near those waters where you "need" to use one...
b.)  buy a rod that is well in the $500+ range when you will rarely use one if, again, you don't live on said waters where the fishing situation calls for it....
c.)  in the case where a 10wt might be handy, could you get away with a 9wt. instead (something you may already have in your arsonal)?

And to directly answer "c,"  - more often then not, the answer will be "yes!"

BTW, I like those T&T Horizons (easy to throw).  It's a 3 piece, right?  Just sayin...   

So let's evaluate a little something.  If you take the normal run of the mill guy who likes to fly fish but doesn't have the time and/or opportunity to do it that often, and even less of a chance (rarely) to throw at trophy fish and need a big stick, then the chances of him having the need for one are low.  Couple that with that moment where he is there on the water where he can use one, put a beefy 10wt in his hand and suggest he cast it all day, is, well... not the best situation for him.  Could he get away with a 9wt where he can use it more often and cast it easier all day?  I would think so.

So if this person we are talking about, which is probably 80 to 90% of the fly fishermen out there, then what I'm suggesting is either;

a.)  Buy a 10wt multi piece (3-4 piece) rod that you can travel with, that will not break the bank by buying a mid range new or used rod or a high end used but clean rod (likewise with the reels) and stick with a good all around line(s).  Something with a more progressive flex that is easier to cast for those guys who don't cast it that often.

b.)  use that 9wt you have instead or get a 9wt that will allow you to use it in a lot more situations and that you can actually cast it all day and not have yet another rod sit in the corner collecting dust..

I think these are more practical advises to give to the general saltwater or whannabe saltwater fly fishing community instead of storing more things that will only collect dust rather than being put to good use and moreover, being able to use it effectively.  Watching a guy flail the water to a distance of 30ft with a 10wt cause he only uses it once ever other year and because he doesn't realizes the world completely changes between an 8wt and a 10wt, is a sad sight to see.

The chances of someone throwing at 80lb tarpon is even slimmer and now you just reduced those who have that opportunity down to about 2% of the fly fishing community.  And in that case, the conversation of owning and throwing big guns becomes a completely different animal.

Can you catch larger fish with lighter outfits or visa versa?  Hey, I've landed a 140lb poon on an 8wt and caught a 6oz fish on a 12wt.!  Hey, well that lizzard fish ate my toad!   ;D  All fun aside, I'm not suggesting that, but taking 5-15lb fish on a 9wt is not out of the question.  Do people have opportunities to throw on fish over 15lbs?  Sometimes but rarely and it's very few of them in the greater population of fly fisherman.  Just sayin....

And for those who wack big fish? Get ya that 1 piece stick and smack em on dah head! Mo power to the people! Lol


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Backwater there is certainly lots of opportunities for guys to use 9wts. I have one on my skiff all the time. As I do a 10. 

I agree that for most guys a one piece rod is not a practical solution. Even guys like me who live on the gulf coast like to travel and fish other venues and a one piece isn't doing that. If I could only have one rod between a 9 or a 10 then I would have a really hard time deciding which way to go. Most of the time the 9 would be plenty good and the 10 a bit overkill. However I am not sure that I wouldn't rather have a rod that is sometimes overkill but right for the bigger fish vs having a rod that is most of the time spot on but under gunned on occasion. 

Which is exactly whey I have both! ;D

And frankly when guys ask me what rods they should have for saltwater fly fishing, without going into specifics on where and for what they fish, its almost always the same answer. An 8 wt and a 10wt. And here's why. The 9 is a GREAT middle of the road rod but I NEVER suggest a guy carry only one rod. That is just bad advice. Not having a backup is just a recipe for disaster. So I suggest the 8 and 10. Covers most everything except for truly large fish like giant tarpon, tuna, and billfish. Which most average fly guys aren't chasing anyway.

So there is my long winded response. Skip the 9 and get an 8 and a 10.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Hey Simms,

My apologies to you for use for using your initial question thread here to counter those guys recommending 1 piece rods, when you may not live in an area where it would be applicable.

Your term "upgrading" probably insinuates that you are already a 10wt user and now looking for better quality.  That I understand.  Recommendations here with these guys are good, but not exactly an end-all advise, especially when talking about a 10wt (again, different animal).

Just because SilverKing Chaser says a Salt is the bomb, doesn't mean you should order it based on that, without a feelski.  I also have rods that big fish I've caught still cry about.

I've also taken guys fishing with me (or vise versa) that swear by a certain rod.  But put a different 10wt rod in there hand while casting to real fish in a particular situation and you can see their tune change.

Again, each person is different, along with their casting ability, their fishing situations and the frequency of uses, when talking about 10wts.

Now here is a twist on logic and I'm about to throw a monkey wrench in the mix.

The REAL question is the "why!"  Why do you want a better 10wt than the one you have.  Why do you feel you need a 10wt.  Why are you willing to spend $800 for the top end rod when in fact you may not be using it all that much.

a.)  The obsession?  That's always a good reason and is why some of us are and remain in the sport.

b.)  You're a hopeless gear head like so many of us and have he need for the best?  Yes another good reason, but ask yourself if it's solely the gear and having that look of coolness on the water and in those sick vids, or is it a crutch because you might be insecure in other areas of your flyfishing and you think it will make you a better fly caster and overall fly fisherman.     Wow, that's a hard one for all of us to swallow!

let's move on....

c.)  you think it will make you a better fly caster.

d. ) you think it will help you throw bigger and/or heavier flies.

e.) you think by throwing those flies you will catch larger fish.

f.)  you think by having a 10wt or a better 10wt than the one you have will help you catch and land bigger and/or more fish.

g.)  you think my having a higher end rod will solve your casting problems.

h.)  you think it will help you to throw further.

i.)  you think it will help you cast better in the wind and or better than your 9wt you already have.

j.) you or your buddy have broken your 9wt(s) or exsisting 10wt(s) on fish and factor the idea that if you had a 10wt or a better 10wt then that wouldn't happen (or happen as often).

k.)  you think by having a better 10wt or a 10wt over a 9wt you already have will help you land fish better and quicker.   Maybe so, but in what situation and how are you fighting the fish in the 1st place?  The rod might not be the problem or the answer.

and the final one is....

l.)  someone told you too get one, or recommended one or their marketing dollar spent is paying off with you reaching in your wallet and purchasing something that you may or may not need for better enjoyment that you may or may not have the opportunity to use it enough to justify it's cost.  Wow, another tough one to ponder.   

So to answer those questions....

No, in fact it might not help you with your casting short comings or distances, or throwing better in the wind if you don't already have a good handle on that.  In fact, buying a 10wt will not help you to cast better, if that's the issue.  Are there some rods better that others or at least better then the one you have?  Absolutely.  But will it improve your casting, help you to cast longer, further and catch bigger fish?  Not necessarily!

As you ponder these questions on should I or should I not....  Start working on things that will help you in your current rod situation.  So for that, let's look at the following.

Obsession and being a gear head can go hand in hand.  So with that said, if your 8 & 9wts you already have are cool, high-tech and the latest craze, then having a middle of the road or slightly older but high tech and widely recognized 10wt you keep in the rod box "just in-case..." really matter to yourself or your buddies.  If in the end when you have to break it out that your casts looks like it came out of a casting dream video and the fish you land with it are mogans anyways, then what do you care and what do they care.  Regardless, you will be "dah man" anyways.  But on the other hand, if you break out that $1200 outfit and wind-up flailing the water into the consistency of the froth that was on the top of your Starbucks Latte Grande that morning and systematically driving all the fish 1000yrds away from the boat?  How will you look to yourself or your buddies then, not to mention that cool vid or pic you were looking for.   

Can you buy or tie those flies slightly smaller and a little more streamline to accommodate a 9wt you already have and not those huge bushy flies everyone tells us we need.   The answer is yes!  Besides, I have go-to flies I use on all those fat pigs than can be thrown with an 6wt, let alone a 9wt.  So going slightly smaller and lighter might not be the big difference between a "take" or not.  In fact some bigger fish my be less spooker with a slightly smaller fly and will eat it quicker, instead of studying it longer.  Remember, the didn't get that big by being dumb and gullible.  

What about needing a heavier fly to get down deeper or down here faster.  Could you use an standard weighted fly on the heavy side for that 9wt and then use a clear intermediate, sink tip, sinking head or full sink line to get the job done?  Probably!

How about the leader system you are using.  Is it designed and tied to turn over bigger and heavier flies?  If not, then that will help you to stick with that one rod (maybe the 9wt or an existing 10wt you may have).  Learn how to tie leaders for bigger, heavier flies, if that is the need (bigger/heavier flies). Typically heaver butt sections that's properly tapered.  Maybe even going to a heavier tippet (say 15 to 20lbs).

How about the flyline?  Again, put crap line that's uncared for on a $1200 outfit and it throws like a crappy outfit.  Put a good quality line, streaching it, keeping it clean and dressed with good dressing and it will wake up that $300 outfit and you think Santa just brought you a whole new outfit.  If you don't have such a line, Temporary try one out on your existing rod (from a friend or demo line from a shop) and try it out for yourself.


So the subject question is "will a new higher end 10wt help you cast better, easier with less effort, further, better in the wind and help you to land bigger fish quicker with less rod breakage???"  The answer to all is No not necessarily!  I can do a 2hr seminar just on this one paragraph, which is many subjects in and of themselves.

The rod is not always the answer and more often is not the answer to the existing problem in the first hand.

Learn to throw better, learn to build muscles that you need to use when throwing bigger rods.  Learn the physical exercises to build those muscles properly to throw those bigger rods (closed fist pushups (even ladies style pushups) or pushups against a counter top will build some hand and forearm needed to throw heavier rods better and longer).  Learn to throw in the wind better.  Study the tips and techniques used to handle every angle of wind and then practice those techniques.  Learn to throw without rocking the boat back and forth.  Learn to throw bigger, bushier and heavier flies by opening up your loops more (which goes against tight loops teachings).  Learn to properly stretch your flyline out every time before you use it that day, clean the line and dress it before you put it away every time you use it.  That alone may add 10-20ft to your cast.

Learn to pick up the line off the water without ripping it up, making tons of noise and shocking the rod.  If a 9 or 10wt line is picked up properly, then the rod was already loading on your pickup and all that was popped out of the water was the fly itself.  With that, the line can shoot behind you with the loaded rod and the forward stroke is then returning the fly back out to the target.  One clean stroke and no false cast.  Then with that, a false cast or 2 is just to re-align the flyline or change directions and then shot back out.  If there is a lot of false casting going on, then there is a problem and it needs to be address to be more effective and cast with less effort.

Are you punching it out?  Because it's heavier are you throwing it like hitting a heavy body punching bag or chucking lead with that big spinning outfit?  Slow down!  Ease up that final shot.  Nothing has changed in your casting stroke from your 8wt.  The mechanics of the cast have not changed.  Go back and see if your cast looks good and everything is flowing smoothly but when you shoot it, it blows up and all falls apart.  What's happening with that?  That's where you need someone looking at you and telling you what you are doing, like that funky golf stroke.  More than likely, you are either arielizating too much line and over loading the rod or you are forcing the final stroke to shoot it far, thereby overloading the rod.  If not those, then try making your final cast like all the rest (smooth and steady with a sharp stop up high, not down towards the target on the water and a god haul) or have it looked at.  Remember, your target you are casting to is always 6ft above the water, not at the water.

Learn good fly line management, get a good stripping basket if you need it.  Nothing worse than getting that line hung up every time you throw it and miss those perfect opportunities.

DON'T GRAB the rod above the handle or high stick them!  You completely loose the rod's butt fighting strength, thereby taking longer to land the fish and risking rod breakage.  Put 2 hands on the rod handle, point the rod to the fish, reel down on him tightly, pull the rod / reel fighting butt to your hip and use your body's torsos strength to twist and turn to the side to pull, using only the rods butt section's strenght and fighting power.  You'll slide that fish in a lot quicker than high sticking it high or grabbing the rod up high. Remember, the rod's tip & mid section is for casting and the butt section is for power and fighting a fish. To get em in quickly? That's how you do it!

It's even more imperative to practice proper casting techniques.  Larger, heavier rods will only exaggerate and already existing bad casting habit.  Practice 15 minutes at a time only so you don't build muscle memory with the casting problem until you get the problem worked out.  Get with a good casting instructor to find out where you need improvements,(sort of like a golf stroke problem).  Or get someone you know who is good and can stand back and see what you are doing and where and how to tweek it back in sync.  Go over in your head all the proper steps in your head  (like a airplane pilot doing a flight checklist) and then practice techniques 1st before you move on to increasing line speed and distances.  Watch your back casts, study your loops and then work on perfecting your loops before you work on distance.

Anyways, with all that said and spending the proper time on yourself and your casting.  Then apply that out in the field and on the water multiple times.  Then ask yourself the "Why's" again and search yourself to seeing if in fact you really need it.  And if so, then go back to the recommendation I gave in the 1st reply and go through the motions (with the better casting techniques improvements) of trying out the different rods that feel good in-hand, with a nice easy throwing feeling to you (and not what someone tells you to get), within your budget and a price point that will justify its costs vs usage.  Then make that decision then.

In the end, you will thank yourself that you weren't impulsive and shot first and asked questions later.   

Ted Haas


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

The OP asked one simple question. He wanted some input on upgrading a 10 wt and looking at a Hardy, Scott, or Loomis NRX. 

Simms hidden in that philosophy diatribe there is a nugget of wisdom. Go try them and get the one that works for you.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

SkiffinIdaho,

I understand Simms is a 10wt user already.  I'm not trying to brow beat or even attack him as you so eloquently stated.  The 1 piece thing was addressed in a couple of paragraphs.
    
The idea was mainly to speak those who are also looking for 10wt help as well (while reading this thread) and debating weather or not to get one, if they actually need one and then the choices they should consider when purchasing one.  Not too many people will address these issues for their various reasons, hence the the reason for bringing up the issues associated with it.

Stay warm!


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

> Looking to upgrade some gear.   Considering a used Hardy, Scott or Loomis NRX 10wt rod.  Any feedback would be appreciated.


It's not a 10wt but I have a Hardy 1-piece 8wt and love it. Used ones are pretty impossible to find.

Sorry I didn't leave a 20 paragraph answer.


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## Blatattack (Aug 23, 2012)

I love you Backwater! You truly get it!


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## shiprock8 (Sep 23, 2013)

Wow! This guy with a fairly simple question has generated a lot of input. Backwater, you must have a lot of time on your hands to make a point that was not even asked in the initial question. I am in the camp that if you can only have two saltwater fly rods, it should be an 8wt and a 10wt. Wether they are one piece or more is a practical matter and even a caveman can figure that out for himself.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

HB, with all due respect, a lot of guys out there who states they like a particular rod, like Net 30 who simply said I like the Hardy 1 pc 8wt and loves it.  That's cool and I see a lot of this on all these boards over the years.  But let's face it, using Net 30's remark and all respect to him too, he loves his Hardy 8wt.  What's not to love about it, it's an 8wt.  But he might hate that same rod in a 10wt dredging an intermediate line all day or his buddies are giving him that look.  But maybe after he booked a trip with the good Capt Lemay and the Capt puts that T&T Horizon 10wt in his hand, he might find that a rod like that feels like sweet cream butter in his hand.  Point is, with 10wts, its more than a recommendation from someone.  Like SkiffinIdaho also said, you have to try them out and get what agrees with him and of course the other things I stated.   

Btw, I fished for mid size cobia (in a HB btw) a few weeks back with a 9wt and never felt undergunned.  

Believe it or not, us guys that own multiple fly rods are the few and far between.  It's a known fact that most guys out there who fly fish in saltwater only own 1 rod.  The majority of those 1 rod owners are 8wt owners (9's are next in line).  But let's face it, most days here or anywhere there is saltwater are windy.  And when it's windy, doesn't mean you have to use a 10wt rod.  Do I like them?  Yes!  Do I actually need to go out and buy one if I own a 9wt to continue doing my normal ffing in the wind?  Nope.  So the point is, someone out there (not Simms in this case) is thinking they might need a 10wt tho he owns a 9wt or a mid-grade 10wt and not sure he can justify the need or expense of upgrading to a high end 10wt, then that's why I used this post to make a point out there to the majority of the saltwater fly fishing community who have an interest in this topic.  HB, I already understand you are a fly fishing junky like a lot of us are, so it's not directed to you.   

And the last point is, the best 10wt for him (if he feels he really needs one) is the best one for him that meets his needs, within his budget that justify it's actual cost vs use and feels best in-hand to him, is the one he should get, not necessarily one that someone tells him to get.  That statement is what is never stated enough when it comes to 10wts.

BTW, I have plenty to do, I just figured out how to do several things at the same time.  O 

Have fun Ya'll


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

I swear to God I have NOT changed my user name! ;D

All interesting and most posts are great. The physics is correct and the geography is spot on. That said, it is gonna end up as personal preference that may be based more on "want" than "need". 

Take two previously made points away from this, if nothing else ------- flyrods are not lifting tools, and learn how to use your equipment.  How many golfers just buy really nice clubs and go play without learning from a pro?

Still SOBX, even on a snotty fishing day! 

Good Fishing!!!


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

> *Believe it or not, us guys that own multiple fly rods are the few and far between.  It's a known fact that most guys out there who fly fish in saltwater only own 1 rod.  *


Backwater

I believe you are honestly trying to post some pertinent and helpful information. But the problem is you continue to make statements that are just so silly that your credibility is shot.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

> > *Believe it or not, us guys that own multiple fly rods are the few and far between.  It's a known fact that most guys out there who fly fish in saltwater only own 1 rod.  *
> 
> 
> Backwater
> ...


That's a pretty funny statement by Backwater…maybe we should all show our wives or girlfriends so they too believe it?


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

Not to counter the "1 rod for all" post, but I'm not sure a have a friend that fresh or saltwater fishes with a fly rod, or conventional tackle for that matter, that just owns/fishes one rod. 

Hard to cover shad and shellcrackers all the way to tarpon & billfish, oh never mind. ;D

Good Fishing!!!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ask yourself this question, when I got started into fly fishing, how many rods did I own right out of the gate and how long did I own said rod(s) until you broke out of my shell and started to get a real interest in fly fishing and had to get that next rod or 2?  Would it be safe to say that YOU were one of those fly rodders that possest only one rod for quite a while then became one of the chosen few who decided you had to have more of it.

World wide, not to mentioned this country, the majority of people out there who have bought a single flyrod with the intention of using it to catch whatever (i.e. trout, bass and/or possibly use it for saltwater), actually only bought 1 rod (one or the other).  That number is staggering relative who have actually decided they like the sport and decided to go deeper into it.

How many people have you met that have said "yea I own a flyrod but don't use it much." A fly rod mfg did a study once and I had the opportunity to see that their estimate of how many people out there that bought only 1 flyrod to "get started" into fly fishing and may or may not ever go to the next level *vs* guys like us that have multiple rods (or in our case, have more fly rods than out wives know about (no to mention their costs)) is.... drumroll please.... over 8-10:1 ratio and that was on an extremely conservative number. and what's a shocker is there were some rumors it was more like 20-50:1 and a factory in china claimed it was more like 100's!.

Ask ANY rod mfg what is their #1 selling rod.  You think it's the coolest rod they make?  Nope!  It's their entry level rod.

How bout them apples! 

Oh btw SOBX, I don't know you and I'm new to this board, but I like your style!  lol   ;D


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

Just to clarify, at my age (61 and heading full steam ahead to 62) and having been lucky at marriage (just 1), business & family (to date anyway), rods just seem to build up over many years.  

Was actually given my first nice rod by a fellow from Md, won't mention his name, and I must be obsessive/compulsive enough to just keep buying/trading/selling rods.  I'd say most of my fishing buddies, from say 40 to 70 own more than 4, way more, like 7 to a dozen from 3wts to 14s.

I will honestly say that fly fishing and golf are pretty similar, and no, I don't play golf (thank God) ----- many who start out feel equipment will make them better, and it will, just not until they learn how to use it and I'm talking about pre & post hook-up. 

Really not any bad rods out there today, reels are way better than 10/15 years ago, and lines are simply amazing allowing us to to things unimaginable a few years back. 

One last thing before I put a heating pad on a sore back, damn trailer maintenance, KUDOS to all the young rascals out there making videos, y'all are bringing the next generation of fly fishermen to the sport and us old farts with a POS (this used to be piece of s--t) camera admire all y'all do.  THANKS!

My other addiction ---



Never take this stuff to seriously and remember I'm always right. ;D

Good Fishing!!!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

;D  SOBX Oh that's good reading!  I have the same heating pad on my back now from gutting out my new skiff project.  Btw, I'm runnin 10yrs behind you.   

Love that quail pic.  Beautiful!  South Florida ran out of them many years ago.  I remember as a kid it was nothing to go out into the pasture and shoot up a cubbie for dinner.  But for the last 30yrs I've only seen a hand full and decided they need to survive more than I want to shoot em.  Dove and sometimes duck and an occasional turkey is about the only thing I hunt these days and those chances are thinning out more and more.  Well except for the invasion of black bellied whistling tree ducks.  I can shoot them with a pellet rifle from my back porch daily if I wanted to.   ;D  And of course, rifles, shotguns and other firearms are yet another obsession to many, like the golf thing (I'm not a golfer either).

I agree with what you are saying.  Just mentioned that there are more people out there with only 1 rod, tho I'm sure they are novices or remain novices.  And again, that was way off course from the original thread.  Just wanted to clarify that point.

I have too many rods too and starting to sell them off and keep what I really need instead of what I think I need.  Contrary to popular belief on this thread, I'm a huge fan of a 10wt.  But my 9wt gets far more use for reasons I mentioned.  If I can only carry 1 flyrod for the gulf coast, then it's a 9wt, more for the wind than anything.  I prefer an 8wt but conditions aren't always ideal for that.  So when I pack for inshore, it's typically an 8 & 9wt.  If I'm going for larger fish or areas that hold bigger fish, then I will pack for that (i.e 9 & 10, 9 & 12, or all 3).  But how many guys REALLY have that opportunity to do that and how often?  Hence the point about about the "whys."

Ok I've whipped that dead horse enough.  :-/

Hey will someone go over and help that guy with tying a decent leader for his 8wt ??    :-?


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## mtgreenheads (May 20, 2014)

Not a hijack from me (hopefully). Anybody fish the Loomis crosscurrent 10wt? I live in MT, and only get about a week/year in the salt. I was able to justify the NRX 8wt in my quiver as a streamer rod up here as well, can't quite swing the 10 wt.

Anyways, appreciate the feedback.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Is the 10wt for the salt or MT? Didn't think the had 10wt size fish in MT.


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## mtgreenheads (May 20, 2014)

10 WT is for my saltwater fishing. It may get used occasionally up here for big pike/musky. We have very few 10 wt fish in MT.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

So I take it you are looking for advise for the new Crosscurrent 4 piece 10wt. Right?


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## mtgreenheads (May 20, 2014)

That is correct, crosscurrent 10 wt. 

Thank you!


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## Terrybait (Mar 12, 2015)

Scott s4 is a great option


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

I fish LA winter time reds ~90% with my 10 WT. XI3 lined with 11WT BTT line. Super accurate, can cast it a mile and can handle jacks and 30lb reds all day. 

Lined with a 10WT line and it really sucks. The rod is really stiff in the butt section and it casts about like a broom handle. Need a bit heavier line to flex the whole rod.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Hey CWright, did you live in Florida at one time?  Just curious.

CW, if you looked in the "looking for a BVK 8wt" thread, you will see I just did a review on a 8wt TFO Axiom (at the end of the thread) where I suggested (without directly stating it) that it felt a bit broomsticky.  But overlining it by 1 line wt helps it to load better for most intermediate casters.  But it's really meant to throw a line at high line speeds and throw a intermediate or sink line.  What's the point?  The point is...   you have a different casting style and to throw your rod properly, you have to use an 11wt flyline.  So you just turned it into a 11wt rod.  You would have been better off just buying a slower more progressive 10wt rod.  I personally don't think you need an 11wt rod for those fish.  You just need a 10wt that fits your casting style OR learn how to cast that Xi3 rod more effectively.

Try going backwards in time and finding a 10wt in a Sage RPLXi, Sage RPLX, a T&T Horizon, a Scott STS or S3, an Orvis T3 Mid Flex, an Albright EXS, or even a TFO Mangrove or a Redington Predator.  A real soft flowing rod would be a St Croix Legend Ultra or a TFO Professional II.  All those rods will have a smooth loading action that will help you feel a good 10wt line load and throw it like butter with your casting stroke.  They will feel lighter in-hand and the 10wt line is easier to throw all day than an 11wt line.

Hey, where you live?  Hey, I'd be happy to come up one of these days and help you shed that 11wt flyline and help you get that Xi3 to talk to a 10wt line, in trade for a day on those 30lb reds!


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

> Hey CWright, did you live in Florida at one time?  Just curious.
> 
> CW, if you looked in the "looking for a BVK 8wt" thread, you will see I just did a review on a 8wt TFO Axiom (at the end of the thread) where I suggested (without directly stating it) that it felt a bit broomsticky.  But overlining it by 1 line wt helps it to load better for most intermediate casters.  But it's really meant to throw a line at high line speeds and throw a intermediate or sink line.  What's the point?  The point is...   you have a different casting style and to throw your rod properly, you have to use an 11wt flyline.  So you just turned it into a 11wt rod.  You would have been better off just buying a slower more progressive 10wt rod.  I personally don't think you need an 11wt rod for those fish.  You just need a 10wt that fits your casting style OR learn how to cast that Xi3 rod more effectively.
> 
> ...


Ha,  I bought a 6wt XI3 and it is my absolute favorite rod in the arsenal.  I like it even more than my 5wt and 8wt XP,  so I took a chance on the 10WT without casting when they discontinued them.  I use the 10WT offshore in the summer throwing to Mahi on sargasum patches and I use 10 WT line and cast it a mile.  Reds are just a little closer and the 11WT slows it down and increases accuracy.  I am happy with it. I only cast when I see a fish. Fishing the marsh is a little easier than beating the mangroves all day.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

My Xi3 10wt is my go to bull redfish rod and I NEVER go out on my skiff w/o it. I have a 10wt RIO redfish line on it and it casts superbly at both the close in your face shots and as long as I can cast (which aint that far....lol).

One of the guys at Uptown Angler (Lee) in NOLA has a brand new one for sale if anybody is interested.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I had a full line of a particular rod once and the 6wt was a sweety.  But not testing it, when I order it, I found out the 10wt was a little too broomsticky for me throwing it all day for everything at any distance.  Sure I could throw it but it just felt way too stiff and wore me out like throwing a 12wt all day long and I knew that wasn't right.  So I went backwards on the 10wt to a slightly softer more progressive rod and it was a pleasure to throw at any distance, all day long, like my 9wt..

This is where we keep going back to this whole 10wt thing.  I remember on this or the other 10wt thread somewhere where I said " just because you have 1 or 2 rods in a certain line of rod, doesn't mean the 10wt will feel the same way.  You might love the other rods but hate 10wt!"  It is one of those rods where you have to slow down, re-group and throw a bunch of them to get what feels best for you in the majority of situations you need it in.

For me, I would hate crashing a n 11wt line on top of a red's head just because I needed to load it quicker.  Maybe changing up lines like that Rio Redfish that SkiffinIdaho uses (nice line).

Heres one other note.  I know a guy who throws 90ft all day long without batting an eye.  But he don't know how to drop and 20-40ft cast to a fish who's sitting there with it's mouth open wide!  He's finding out it's a matter of changing his casting technique with the same line to get it to em.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Hey guys, just an update on a rod that I decided to try out.   It's the TFO 10wt Mangrove.  Was nicely laid out, didn't have those big bulky ferrals that some of the TFO's are known for.  I really like the large stripping guides which I think is important in a 10wt saltwater rod (a lot bigger than the Xi3, just saying).  Didn't feel real heavy in-hand when casting it although it's a little heavier weight wise than some others.  So it has the lifting power you need for our stuff down here in Fla but the butt doesn't have that broom stick feeling when casting it.  Not the tightest loops in the world but very nice looking loops and you can feel the rod load right up with a 10wt line.  However, those razor tight loops you see people throw are not well suited for big bushy or heavy weighted flies that are great to throw with a 10wt.! It threw 80ft with ease but got angry with me when I tried to punch it further than that!  lol

Very easy to cast a shore 30 to 50 footer and seemed to be fairly accurate.  I actually think it's a nice flowing rod and didn't feel overworked casting it for a while.  So for the money, I think it's a great buy and give it a big thumbs up!


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Backwater, I agree that you want "larger" guides on a saltwater fly rod and especially as you go up in line wts. However, you can also go too big. Some of the historical logic is starting to be rethought and in fact some are going to smaller guides than previously thought....notably rod maker Tom Morgan.

Take a read and see what he has to say about guide sizes....yes they can actually be too big.

http://www.troutrods.com/graphite.html


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Skiff, I had a feeling that someone would say something about stripping guide size (small vs large).  Btw, thanks for the link to Tom Morgan's site and his Philosophy on rod building.  Interesting read but I figured that's what he might say about that subject and I'm sure he has a point with that on that subject.

But there is a mile difference between gently placing a dry fly with a 3 weight on a stillwater stream 30ft away with a dbl taper or level line, where your running line is neatly placed in a small stripping basket and using an IFFF style no haul cast, *vs* throwing a Hail Mary across a 20mph Gulf wind dragging big heavy clouser behind a big fat head intermediate flyline where the running line is blown all over the deck and you are hyper double hauling an extended drifted style modern surf distance cast.  Trust me when I say that the idea of line slap is nowhere near as important as getting rope like diameter flyline to threat a needle eye size stripping guide when the stuff is slinging around from every direction.  That's the real world uses of it in a 10wt vs those prestine butter rods he makes.

I was sent an $1800 bamboo from a well known bamboo rod builder who used those same size ultra small stripping guides on a 9wt rod he designed for small tarpon.  Very progressive action which was fun to throw.  However, those guides were so small, it actually seemed to choked the line at the 1st guide when it shot threw it.  But the same reel on an extremely progressive graphite rod in the same weight (meant for steelies and felt like the same action as the bamboo)) with larger stripping guides, and the line zipped threw the guides with no problems.  Btw, I had that bamboo for about 6yrs.

There is also one other note, mounting the 1st stripping guide too close to the rod handle also chokes it out.  I remember in a big fly show in St Pete around 2001, Lefty was doing some work with St Croix and help design and endorse one of their higher end rod, that was the next level over the Legend Ultra.  I can't remember what it was, maybe it was the Elite (who knows).  Anyway, he handed me the rod and I went to the casting pond and threw it.  Had the guides too close to the handle.  It actually hindered my hauling and overall impaired the cast.  I handed it back to him and smiled and walked away but didn't have the heart to tell him that the rod sucked!    Humm....  ~thinks~  Hey don't be a hater.  I actually like the Legend Ultra for trout guys who are looking for a saltwater rod to fit their casting style.  I've recommended that for those trout kinda guys since `98 (I think) when they 1st came out.  Btw CW, now there's a sweet short cast fast loading 10wt rod for those big reds near the boat.  Hey CW, all things aside, we need to swap trips one day.  Those big fat reds for big fat snook or tarpon.   

Hey btw, one other rod I tried that was an absolute hoot to throw was that TFO 9/10 Hawg Leg 7 1/2 footer.  Wow, what a beautiful rod and nicely laid out and the dang thing was light and shot line like a cannon!!!     I had it stringed up with a 10wt floater and easily hit 70ft consistantly with that short little stick but a 20 to 40 ft cast was a breeze! It really handled one of those side cast that you flip line under the tree branches or docks very nicely.  It has the same scrim design like a Shimano Teramar spinning rods except in a maroon/brown color.  Beautiful rod, 3 large stripping guides and a nice $149 sticker.  If they made that rod in a 9ft rod, I would be done (stick a fork in me)!


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

I always have a 10wt strung up in the boat here in Texas. A 10wt TFO Mangrove is my go-to Louisiana bull red rod in the winter. You're seldom making casts longer than 60ft and want to be able to make quick, short shots.

I'm not a fan of the Mangrove in the other weights though. And even the 10wt sucks if you try and reach out past 75ft or so but for casting bulky flies at short- to intermediate-range the 10wt excels.

It's also great on bruisers like the big jacks we have here on the Texas coast. They all seem to run 15-20# or more and love to bust rods.

That being said, I'm looking at picking up a NiB Xi3 in 10wt as you can find great deals on them now and the 10wt seems to be the go-to permit rod size and I'm hopefully going to get down to Ascencion Bay later this year.


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