# Please don’t judge



## Guest (Nov 16, 2018)

Folks, I can’t believe I am doing this but I want my pops to see this skiff and company I’ve been working on happen. I started a go fund me account in hopes to raise just enough for initial start up. I’ve been trying for several years now and each time I get enough saved, life kicks me in the teeth! Please share this link with whomever you can and thank you. If you can donate great, if not that’s great too and understandable. Thank you, and God bless. 
https://dm2.gofund.me/k4hydp-help-me-realize-my-dream


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

There you go I started it off for you hopefully it will get the ball rolling for you. And good luck with your future business.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Unbelievable


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Come on guys let's help out another microskiffer donate what you can even if it's only a few dollars.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> Unbelievable


Really Steve what if you were trying to get a business rolling and someone could help he said if you can't donate great but don't be throwing negativity on his thread buddy just read it and move along.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2018)

Thank you @Backcountry 16 !


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2018)

ifsteve said:


> Unbelievable


I can appreciate this. And I will get these skiffs to market, I want my pops to see them though and I hope you can appreciate that.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Really Steve what if you were trying to get a business rolling and someone could help he said if you can't donate great but don't be throwing negativity on his thread buddy just read it and move along.


Because people love to look down their noses at people like their shit doesn’t stink. I only do that to people that think a hull with no tunnel saves seagrass but half their skeg is ground off and mine only has 2” of paint missing off the tip.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

10 4 glad I could help you out don't listen to the negativity he's always spouting out it.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2018)

Guys, it’s ok if someone doesn’t like what I’m doing. I have pretty thick skin, this business will do that to anyone! @ifsteve, you are correct “unbelievable”! I never in a million years thought I’d ask for anything like this! I am just trying to speed up the process without going in the red from the jump. I have people willing to invest but that usually means doing it their way. My buisiness model is all about doing it the right way! Build what you as a customer wants, the way it should be built. Not the way an investor thinks it should be done to save $10 on a $10,000, $20,000 skiff, and then have to warranty something because of that $10 savings during the build. I truly do apprieciate your input, please know I’ve worked very hard my entire life and would not consider this if time wasn’t important to me at the moment. Thank you, James


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

I just went to donate and pull out my card and the wife has it lol. I will do what I can later when I grab my check card. Best of luck brother! If it wasn't for people helping me out when I was trying to start my business I wouldn't be where I am at today. This Feb will be 5 years. I remember when people scoffed at the idea. Now I have a good little business that I love that supports my family. God bless you and pray about it! It will happen.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2018)

makin moves said:


> I just went to donate and pull out my card and the wife has it lol. I will do what I can later when I grab my check card. Best of luck brother! If it wasn't for people helping me out when I was trying to start my business I wouldn't be where I am at today. This Feb will be 5 years. I remember when people scoffed at the idea. Now I have a good little business that I love that supports my family. God bless you and pray about it! It will happen.


Thank you!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

makin moves said:


> I just went to donate and pull out my card and the wife has it lol. I will do what I can later when I grab my check card. Best of luck brother! If it wasn't for people helping me out when I was trying to start my business I wouldn't be where I am at today. This Feb will be 5 years. I remember when people scoffed at the idea. Now I have a good little business that I love that supports my family. God bless you and pray about it! It will happen.


Man you are crazy letting your wife have your card


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Man you are crazy letting your wife have your card


Especially since she was making a Sam's club run!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

makin moves said:


> Especially since she was making a Sam's club run!


Ouch


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

My wife just lost her 49 year old brother to cancer so I know how fast time flies when the prognosis is terminal.

Might help if you do a little homework and put together some information for potential investors that includes CAD drawings of the skiff, lamination schedule, cost to build vs. sales price, how to offer a warranty, and your business model that will allow you to employ up to 20 locals.

Nearly all Kick Starter campaigns are loaded with information that is meant to make investors feel fairly confident on their contribution.

Best of luck.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2018)

Net 30 said:


> My wife just lost her 49 year old brother to cancer so I know how fast time flies when the prognosis is terminal.
> 
> Might help if you do a little homework and put together some information for potential investors that includes CAD drawings of the skiff, lamination schedule, cost to build vs. sales price, how to offer a warranty, and your business model that will allow you to employ up to 20 locals.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2018)

So under some sound advise, I edited my gfm campaign. I like this advise and wanted to share with ya’ll! Anyone that donates $50 or more to this will be eligable for a 10% discount on a skiff build! This way makes me feel better about asking at least. This discount can be used at anytime once I’m up and running and can be used with any promotion I may decide to run as well! Thank you all for you support and advise, James!


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Done.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

Done. Good Luck!


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2018)

FlyBy said:


> Done. Good Luck!


Thank you! I appreciate the support!


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## nautilott (Oct 29, 2017)

Looking forward to my 10% on a new skiff in 5 or 6 years...lol. Best wishes to you and your Dad.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

I’m not in the skiff building industry, but here is my feedback as someone who has started and run multiple successful small businesses. Desperation is not likely to attract investors, you need to display confidence, have a detailed game plan, and understand business basics, which is not the same as being able to build a great skiff. A 10% discount for $50 is a horrible model, that could equal the majority of your profit on certain boats, not to mention with the way it is phrased, I’d expect it on the motor, trailer, GPS, power pole, iPilot, etc.

You also don’t need $35k startup capital, look at what you need step by step to move forward, and put that back into the business 100%. This is what I would do given your current situation:

Change the GoFundMe goal to $500, this is what you need to get a decent logo designed, and you’re most of the way there already. With that you can start Instagram and Facebook pages to work on your marketing, and get people following your process.

You can also take pre-orders for hats and shirts with your company logo to raise some $. A lot of guys on here would buy them, look at the United Fly Outfitters thread. You’re now creating something of value rather than asking for donations, and getting your brand out in view. If you have some professional quality sketches/line drawings of your skiffs, you can sell those also.

Now you need a prototype/demo boat, which will probably not be the exact finished product. I would lean towards doing this as a “home built” boat rather than a production boat with all of the hoops to jump through. If your goal isn’t to build it expressly to sell for profit you should be fine from a liability standpoint, but I’m not an attorney. It’s only $125 to file an LLC in FL which is worth doing.

#1, you try to build it out of pocket or using 0% for 12-24 month credit cards, knowing that you will sell it after you use it for R&D, photos/videos/demo rides and make a decent bit of $ to move forward.

#2, you can hope that someone on here or locally will hire you to build it and front the cost of materials, agree to let you use it for promotion for a period of time, and make zero profit.

Once you get past that point, build a decent website. IMO, all of the skiff manufactures have crappy websites. Very little information, detailed photos, specs, pricing, options, etc. It’s a still a backwards industry in many ways. 

All future builds require a deposit for the cost of materials on the hull. When it’s ready to be rigged they pay the full cost of everything going on the boat. At delivery they pay the balance, which is your profit. This is sustainable and you won’t get upside down or outgrow your cash flow if you follow it properly.

Shop space, insurance, etc will have to be taken into account obviously, but you don’t need it until you’re taking orders.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2018)

nautilott said:


> Looking forward to my 10% on a new skiff in 5 or 6 years...lol. Best wishes to you and your Dad.


Thank you!


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2018)

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> I’m not in the skiff building industry, but here is my feedback as someone who has started and run multiple successful small businesses. Desperation is not likely to attract investors, you need to display confidence, have a detailed game plan, and understand business basics, which is not the same as being able to build a great skiff. A 10% discount for $50 is a horrible model, that could equal the majority of your profit on certain boats, not to mention with the way it is phrased, I’d expect it on the motor, trailer, GPS, power pole, iPilot, etc.
> 
> You also don’t need $35k startup capital, look at what you need step by step to move forward, and put that back into the business 100%. This is what I would do given your current situation:
> 
> ...


Thank you! Very solid advise!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2018)

So I wanted to update you fine folks!
I know this disgusted a few of you and so be it. But because of you all I can at least begin to move forward with this project which is more than I could say a week ago and for that I am grateful! I am looking into applying for my trade mark so that I can do as @Gatorgrizz27 suggested and get some apparel and pesky stickers made up! “Hey, it’s a move in the right direction” Will probably just do rash guards and hats for now. Picked up a little work but still slow. Gonna be building some custom hatches and gutters for a fellow microskiffer amd with his permission will share that with ya’ll as I progress. You guys are all awesome, thank you!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2018)

Also wanted to share this so you know I’m not just sitting on me bum beggin! Put color on this one today! It’s a tri tone webbed interior black, dk grey, lt grey on white base. She came out good and customer is very happy! Thanks again guys!


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

I would highly suggest you visit your local Small Business Development Center or attend local seminars on becoming a business owner because offering 10% for $50 is committing business suicide and anyone with any sense in their mind would steer clear. Why not borrow money from a bank at a much lower rate? Asking for that kind of money without even a semblance of a business plan is irresponsible. 

http://floridasbdc.org/


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2018)

Folks, I have a business plan! I can not just post it up for the world to see as that would be business suicide when starting out and releasing a new product and company. The whole plan revolves around the product as this is why I am doing it! Please know that I’m not a dumba$$ just because I asked for a hand. Your input is still respected and appreciated, James


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## 4991 (Jun 21, 2012)

You should visit your local bank for a small business loan or something of the like, instead of trying to raise funds on a forum. Or if you own a home, try a home equity line of credit which usually offers a ten year term, interest only at pretty low rates.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I would highly suggest you visit your local Small Business Development Center or attend local seminars on becoming a business owner because offering 10% for $50 is committing business suicide and anyone with any sense in their mind would steer clear. Why not borrow money from a bank at a much lower rate? Asking for that kind of money without even a semblance of a business plan is irresponsible.
> 
> http://floridasbdc.org/


Starting a business isn't rocket science. How man entrepreneurs over the years have started a business and been successful with out attending seminars. All you need is work ethic, vision and start up cash. If he wants to give 10% off that's his call. Do you think every person donating is going to line up to have a boat built all at once if at all?


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

makin moves said:


> Starting a business isn't rocket science. How man entrepreneurs over the years have started a business and been successful with out attending seminars. All you need is work ethic, vision and start up cash. If he wants to give 10% off that's his call. Do you think every person donating is going to line up to have a boat built all at once if at all?


You’re right. Starting a business is a piece of cake. So is going belly up because you don’t know what the hell youre doing. 

Being able to build boats does not make you a good businessman.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> You’re right. Starting a business is a piece of cake. So is going belly up because you don’t know what the hell youre doing.
> 
> Being able to build boats does not make you a good businessman.


I didn't say it was a piece of cake I said it's not rocket science. If it was he would already be in business.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

According to the SBA, first time small business startups have about an 18% chance of succeeding. Those are pretty bad odds, and they're probably much worse in the boat business. Interestingly, people who have started a business successfully before have about a 50% chance of a second success. These figures tell me there's something to be learned and that a first-timer would be wise to find a mentor, attend classes, and absorb all the business knowledge possible.

Start up money is not enough. Remember the old joke: "The easiest way to make a million is to start with two million." Lots of people have vision, and lots are willing to work hard, but working hard at the wrong things will not lead to success. 

If I were giving advice on the subject, and I guess I am, my first bit of advice would be don't do it. My second warning would be to avoid borrowing. If a business can't fuel itself after a little kick-start from your own time and resources, it's highly likely that it will never be a success. I say these things as one who has started three successful small businesses and run them until I got bored and sold or until I retired and sold.


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## ascentone (Feb 17, 2015)

Just contributed. Best wishes on a very successful venture!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2018)

Vertigo said:


> According to the SBA, first time small business startups have about an 18% chance of succeeding. Those are pretty bad odds, and they're probably much worse in the boat business. Interestingly, people who have started a business successfully before have about a 50% chance of a second success. These figures tell me there's something to be learned and that a first-timer would be wise to find a mentor, attend classes, and absorb all the business knowledge possible.
> 
> Start up money is not enough. Remember the old joke: "The easiest way to make a million is to start with two million." Lots of people have vision, and lots are willing to work hard, but working hard at the wrong things will not lead to success.
> 
> If I were giving advice on the subject, and I guess I am, my first bit of advice would be don't do it. My second warning would be to avoid borrowing. If a business can't fuel itself after a little kick-start from your own time and resources, it's highly likely that it will never be a success. I say these things as one who has started three successful small businesses and run them until I got bored and sold or until I retired and sold.


I agree fully with this statement. This isn’t my first rodeo either. I’m just in a finacial rut and wanting to move forward. Many people have asked for a hand up so while against my normal thinking, I decided maybe I should too! Chances of getting rich are very slim, I’ll be happy with a decent wage and helping others in my area earn a decent wage. While I may not have anything to offer you personally, I do have a lot to offer. Please understand that a loan is out of the question as a big part of making a business succesful is staying in the black! I might humor an investor but am not willing to share ideas yet as I need protection first since what this company is set to do will be a first. Building the boat is certainly the easy part in which I am ready to do. Making sure I don’t get scammed and/or pigeon holed into something is another story. Thank you all!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2018)

ascentone said:


> Just contributed. Best wishes on a very successful venture!


Thank you for your support!


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2018)

Fishfinder40 said:


> Update: I'll be calling saltmarsh tomorrow to cancel my order for the Heron 18 and get my $300 refunded. The lead time was going to be late May or early June and so I started looking around to see if I could find something that I would really like. The way I had the hearon spect out price point came in at about $42k. all of the other manufacturers were going to be around 55k or more the way I wanted the boat.
> 
> In fact I had actually got a price from beavertail and the way I wanted the boat setup was going to be about 55 to 56k with the trailer and electronics. I found a 2017 BTV with less than 20 hours on it with all the options I wanted. at 2019 pricing the build sheet came out to 56k with the options that the boat had it was listed for 47500 I picked it up for 40K. I feel like I got a smoking deal. 1 years old less than 20 hours and a 15K savings!!


So while this might not have been the best way to start the ball rolling, at least it is rolling for me now thanks to a few guys on this forum! I’ve place an add in the for sale section for custom hatches and accessories. But given many posts stating similar things to FF40’s... I believe there might just be room in the market for another builder! Having some difficulty with name trademark due to name I picked lol, logo not so much. Might have to change the name or just go with it. More to come, thanks again for all your support guys!


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## Fishfinder40 (Nov 22, 2018)

Boatbrains said:


> So while this might not have been the best way to start the ball rolling, at least it is rolling for me now thanks to a few guys on this forum! I’ve place an add in the for sale section for custom hatches and accessories. But given many posts stating similar things to FF40’s... I believe there might just be room in the market for another builder! Having some difficulty with name trademark due to name I picked lol, logo not so much. Might have to change the name or just go with it. More to come, thanks again for all your support guys!


What kind of custom hatch and accessories? Link?


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2018)

Fishfinder40 said:


> What kind of custom hatch and accessories? Link?


https://www.microskiff.com/threads/custom-fiberglass-hatches-and-accesories.58268/
They will be custom built to order so prices vary on size and shape. All will have gutters with flanges for glassing or bolting in to your boat. Also doing coffin boxes, coolers, tiller consoles!


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Missed this one somehow. Good luck!

If someone wanted some custom parts and could send a template/scale drawing, could you do that type of thing?

Got a project I'm working on...


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> Missed this one somehow. Good luck!
> 
> If someone wanted some custom parts and could send a template/scale drawing, could you do that type of thing?
> 
> Got a project I'm working on...


For the most part, yes! Sending PM with number. Give me a call tomorrow sometime and we can discuss. Thank you, James!


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## Battfisher (Jan 18, 2016)

Boatbrains said:


> Folks, I can’t believe I am doing this but I want my pops to see this skiff and company I’ve been working on happen. I started a go fund me account in hopes to raise just enough for initial start up. I’ve been trying for several years now and each time I get enough saved, life kicks me in the teeth! Please share this link with whomever you can and thank you. If you can donate great, if not that’s great too and understandable. Thank you, and God bless.
> https://dm2.gofund.me/k4hydp-help-me-realize-my-dream


I participated as well - but won't take you up on the 10%. You share your experience and knowledge on this site for all of us novices, and you always do it in a positive manner. Hopefully you'll be up and running full bore in 4 or 5 years when I'll be looking for a great skiff, at a fair price, to drive into retirement!


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2018)

Battfisher said:


> I participated as well - but won't take you up on the 10%. You share your experience and knowledge on this site for all of us novices, and you always do it in a positive manner. Hopefully you'll be up and running full bore in 4 or 5 years when I'll be looking for a great skiff, at a fair price, to drive into retirement!


Thank you sir! It’s my pleasure to share as much info as I can with ya’ll!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

I was the first one to give a donation and I did it because someone helped me out starting a business not money but he let me use his liscense and without his help I would not be where I am today working for myself. I can tell that James is a genuine person and the fact that he's on here offering a 10 percent discount says it all. I will probably not build another boat any time soon but if I did I would not hesitate a minute to build a boat thru him I honestly hope he makes it because he seems to be a down to Earth guy and that's ultimately what we need in this world. Good luck and best wishes Jimmy.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2018)

Meeting with an artist friend on Sunday, hoping to have ya’ll some conceptual drawings soon! Shirts and hats coming soon too! Thanks again for all the support!


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2018)

Just a shout out and thank you for all the support recieved! I truly apprieciate it and will pay it forward! Shirts and hats to come soon! Skiff numbe one SALE pending! Whoo hoo I think this thing is about to become tangible fellas! Thank you all from the bottom of my heart!


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2018)

Ok, So I ended the campaign this morning and wanted to kill this thread finally! I want to say thank you to all that contributed to this thread and campaign both monetarily and with all the great advise given! I feel like I have come to know all of you and you are all aces in my book! With all the crap that goes on around this planet, it’s a good feeling to know so many that will lend a hand to a perfect stranger! There is hope for us all still! Shirts and stickers coming for all that contributed whatever it may have been. Just bear with me and I’ll be getting your addresses soon. If all goes well I will be starting hulls #1&2 before Christmas and might have picked up enough repair/restoration work to keep me going until both hulls are completed. Once ready we will be doing a state wide demo tour of the skiff. Here at home in Ozello, Tampa bay, the Goon, Choko, and somewhere in SE Florida, panhandle, Jacksonville area! We will have some free food and beverage for those that attend the events and hope to see ya’ll there! Again, thank you all so much for your contributions and God bless! We’re gonna start slicing and dicing soon, James!


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

Kick ass, my man. Can't wait to see the finished products.


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## nautilott (Oct 29, 2017)

James...
Glad to see things are moving forward for you. I've already picked out a spot on the Jeep to display your sticker.  All the best and future success to you...make 'er happen! Bob


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2018)

Thanks guys! I have to admit that I am a little giddy right now and can’t wait to show her off! I never imagined after starting and owning my other business’ that I would be struggling to get this one up and running. So many hurdles to do this right that I can see why so many fail! As stated on here there is a lot more to it than building the boats! We have started with zero and can only grow from there at least! My shop at the moment is a dirt floor pole shed and canvas carport with a 10x18 shed for tools and I still turn out work after puttin in my 40 for the state! We will get there with some hard work and will one day look back and just say wow! Thanks again, James


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## Shadowcast16 (Mar 5, 2017)

Boatbrains said:


> Ok, So I ended the campaign this morning and wanted to kill this thread finally! I want to say thank you to all that contributed to this thread and campaign both monetarily and with all the great advise given! I feel like I have come to know all of you and you are all aces in my book! With all the crap that goes on around this planet, it’s a good feeling to know so many that will lend a hand to a perfect stranger! There is hope for us all still! Shirts and stickers coming for all that contributed whatever it may have been. Just bear with me and I’ll be getting your addresses soon. If all goes well I will be starting hulls #1&2 before Christmas and might have picked up enough repair/restoration work to keep me going until both hulls are completed. Once ready we will be doing a state wide demo tour of the skiff. Here at home in Ozello, Tampa bay, the Goon, Choko, and somewhere in SE Florida, panhandle, Jacksonville area! We will have some free food and beverage for those that attend the events and hope to see ya’ll there! Again, thank you all so much for your contributions and God bless! We’re gonna start slicing and dicing soon, James!


Congrats James! Hopefully you will stop in Fort Myers on your tour. I am currently in the market and would like to pull the trigger soon. I would like to have a new skiff for the spring. I am sure you will be successful because you are a good person.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2018)

Yes sir, I am thinking Ft myers/Naples/Matlacha? It will be about a year before I can get in production really. But I will have a couple one off demos done while tooling up to “show off” my baby! I would love to put you in one of my production models brother!


Shadowcast16 said:


> Congrats James! Hopefully you will stop in Fort Myers on your tour. I am currently in the market and would like to pull the trigger soon. I would like to have a new skiff for the spring. I am sure you will be successful because you are a good person.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> Thanks guys! I have to admit that I am a little giddy right now and can’t wait to show her off! I never imagined after starting and owning my other business’ that I would be struggling to get this one up and running. So many hurdles to do this right that I can see why so many fail! As stated on here there is a lot more to it than building the boats! We have started with zero and can only grow from there at least! My shop at the moment is a dirt floor pole shed and canvas carport with a 10x18 shed for tools and I still turn out work after puttin in my 40 for the state! We will get there with some hard work and will one day look back and just say wow! Thanks again, James


No worries about the shop space for the time being. The first Whipray was built under a sheet of plastic. Think there are pictures on Chris Morejohn’s blog.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2018)

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> No worries about the shop space for the time being. The first Whipray was built under a sheet of plastic. Think there are pictures on Chris Morejohn’s blog.


Yes sir, ya gotta do what ya gotta do! Honestly, knowing what I am starting with and what my end game is... is a lot of fun at times! When you start with nothing but a dream and start to bring that dream to life with just a few hundred bucks from some friends it puts things into perspective. 10 years ago I could write a check for the amounts needed to start up. 1 bad financial decision is all it took to lose everything! I don’t mind sharing this as I believe in transparency and am not ashamed of it. It happened, it’s over, moving forward, Amen!


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