# Water quality headed downhill - need for a poling skiff



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

With the current state of the IRL I'm wondering if there is a point in owning a boat. I'm not into fishing bait so the question becomes is it worth owning a poling skiff? With the water the way it is the fish have to be tailing, finning or pushing a wake, otherwise chances of sight fishing are pretty much 0.

Maybe my thoughs are short sighted or maybe they are realistic. With water temps on the rise I don't see an end in sight at any point in the near future. If the cold didn't clean the water up the heat isn't going to help.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

When things go wrong, as they sometimes will,
When the road you're trudging seems all uphill,
When funds are low and the debts are high,
And you want to smile but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit,
Rest if you must, but don't you quit.

Life is queer with its twists and turns,
As every one of us sometimes learns,
And many a failure turns about,
When he might have won if he'd stuck it out.
Don't give up, though the pace seems slow -
You may succeed with another blow.

Often the goal is nearer than
It seems to a faint and faltering man;
Often the struggler has given up
When he might have captured the victor's cup,
And he learned too late, when the night slipped down,
How close he was to the golden crown.

Success is failure turned inside out -
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are -
It may be near when it seems afar;
So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit -
It's when things seem worst that you mustn't quit.


Don't quit fishing, man! Fishing is therapy for me, heck, just getting out on the skiff I simply love it. I know the goon and IRL have been hard hit, hopefully they will bounce back. You got a dream skiff.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Just discouraging to see an area I love going down the toilet at warp speed. The people that are put in place to stop it have no reason to do anything. They are benefitting and will be out of office with their pockets lined whether it's saved or destroyed. It's easier and likely more profitable for them to do nothing.

I was reading today and saw that Bill Nelson was trying to find support in Washington to help this issue. Needless to say I sent an email to Bill Nelson.

Does anyone know of a contact at the Department of Tourism for FL that we can contact? That industry stands to lose the most if nothing is done. Surely someone has enough leverage to keep this ship from sinking.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Run for office and once elected tell the truth on every media outlet. 

You will never get re-elected but maybe you can do more than what is being done...IF you don't succumb to the millions of dollars trying to get you to shut up.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Contact Brevard and Volusia county commissioners and Duane DeFreese @ Marine Resource Council. 

I feel like there is a way to shame these f'ers into doing something?? Social media?? That's how things seem to get done now a days.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

CCA needs to step it up. Although I am a Texan I have fished the Glades in the late ninetys and it is a national treasure that needs serious upstream protection and unaltered water flow. All of that water needs to be going to the park and Florida Bay. I will write our not so great senator Ted Cruz and my embarrassing congressman Randy Weber.
Don't give up Surf! If you get desperate fly to Houston or Corpus Christi and I will get you to some clear water.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

I feel your pain. 4 trips 8 trout, 1 red, and sheepshead.
There's nothing biting in the banana or Indian in central area. The waters the worst I've seen in the last 20 yrs. I went camping down in flamingo last week and the water there is suffering also, so Florida better find some answers.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

sjrobin said:


> CCA needs to step it up. Although I am a Texan I have fished the Glades in the late ninetys and it is a national treasure that needs serious upstream protection and unaltered water flow. All of that water needs to be going to the park and Florida Bay. I will write our not so great senator Ted Cruz and my embarrassing congressman Randy Weber.
> Don't give up Surf! If you get desperate fly to Houston or Corpus Christi and I will get you to some clear water.


Give me 6 months and I may take you up on that if it's not better.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

grovesnatcher said:


> I feel your pain. 4 trips 8 trout, 1 red, and sheepshead.
> There's nothing biting in the banana or Indian in central area. The waters the worst I've seen in the last 20 yrs. I went camping down in flamingo last week and the water there is suffering also, so Florida better find some answers.


It's tough to watch. This needs immediate intervention or its going to be too little too late. Punch some holes in the barrier islands to let the ocean clean it out. Everyone says that solution will mess up the lagoon ecosystem. I say that's bs. I haven't seen a better solution. If it's all dead what does it matter? 
Everyone wants to clean up septic tanks, fertilizers bla bla bla. That will take 50 years. It's part of the problem but addressing those issues wont reverse the short term damage. Yes start on that and make it mandatory but do something in the meantime.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

I've never fished the goon and I still didnt understand the situation completely, particularly how Lake O. discharge affects the goon - so I contacted Marty Baum from http://indianriverkeeper.org. Talked to him for 40 minutes. He recommended you guys get into contact with bullsugar.org if u haven't already.


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## Flats Tanley (Aug 30, 2015)

el9surf said:


> It's tough to watch. This needs immediate intervention or its going to be too little too late. Punch some holes in the barrier islands to let the ocean clean it out. Everyone says that solution will mess up the lagoon ecosystem. I say that's bs. I haven't seen a better solution. If it's all dead what does it matter?
> Everyone wants to clean up septic tanks, fertilizers bla bla bla. That will take 50 years. It's part of the problem but addressing those issues wont reverse the short term damage. Yes start on that and make it mandatory but do something in the meantime.


Much of what we are seeing this year is the result of the higher than normal rainfall for the area surrounding the lagoon and all that comes with that in terms of runoff and salinity. If you look at all the data the St Johns WMD captures in the IRL and the historical rain levels you can see an obvious cause and effect.

Check these links 

http://www.sfwmd.gov/portal/page/portal/xweb weather/rainfall historical (monthly)

or 

http://webapub.sjrwmd.com/agws10/hdswq/

And play around with the different data sets.

A nice dry winter will help but the other efforts to clean up septic and reduce fertilizers are needed as well. There is no magic bullet it will take an long term assault on multiple fronts to fix the issue long term. Too bad zebra mussels don't live in the salt, lake Michigan is amazing these days in terms of clarity. 

I've done research on algae for alternative energy and there is normally a large build up where they take over the environment when the conditions favor them but they quickly crash if you take away some of the variables they need and looking at the nitrogen levels of the SJWMD site linked above I think when those come down so will the levels of chlorophyll which they are also capturing. One good thing is the oxygen levels look ok so the fish are not at risk yet. The long term loss of grass may have an effect on their reproductive success.

If you are interested on recent research on the IRL algae issues here are some good scientific articles which you can google

Lapointe, B. E., Herren, L. W., Debortoli, D. D., & Vogel, M. A. (2015). Evidence of sewage-driven eutrophication and harmful algal blooms in Florida's Indian River Lagoon. _Harmful Algae_, _43_, 82-102.


Kang, Y., Koch, F., & Gobler, C. J. (2015). The interactive roles of nutrient loading and zooplankton grazing in facilitating the expansion of harmful algal blooms caused by the pelagophyte, Aureoumbra lagunensis, to the Indian River Lagoon, FL, USA. _Harmful Algae_, _49_, 162-173.


Hirschfeld, J. A. (2015). Short Term Changes in Seagrass Meadows in the Northern Indian River Lagoon (Titusville. FL).


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks for the info, I will do some reading. In years past the rain has been much worse for longer periods of time. The St. John's is currently a little over its banks but not by a lot, around the levels we would normally see in November. The St. Johns is a pretty good gauge of rainfall and although January was a wet month it has been fairly dry lately. With the levels well below flood stage why is this algae thriving? It can't be solely due to the rain we got in January.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm thinking the exact same thing. I'm seriously thinking about selling the 17.8 and maybe getting a Marquesa so I can fish the inlets once and a while, dock lights, run along the beach during summer and the Fall mullet run. Hard to justify having a skiff that get's into 6" when you can't see the bottom anymore.

Went out this evening for a few of hours and the water was disgusting. Vis was 3"-4" at best. Never saw a fish or any grass in spots that were always pretty good. I know a couple guys that have been fishing my areas for 30+ years and they all agree the future does not look very bright.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Net 30 said:


> I'm thinking the exact same thing. I'm seriously thinking about selling the 17.8 and maybe getting a Marquesa so I can fish the inlets once and a while, dock lights, run along the beach during summer and the Fall mullet run. Hard to justify having a skiff that get's into 6" when you can't see the bottom anymore.
> 
> Went out this evening for a few of hours and the water was disgusting. Vis was 3"-4" at best. Never saw a fish or any grass in spots that were always pretty good. I know a couple guys that have been fishing my areas for 30+ years and they all agree the future does not look very bright.


I was thinking the same thing about the marquesa. I could fish the beaches in the summer.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

It's truly saddening to watch our fishery die off. The clear water sight fishing days of the Lagoon and IRL seem to have come to a end. I've found my peace chucking flies at bluegill and bass on my local lake. It's surely not the same but it passes the time.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

On another note, the Marquesa idea is a good one and you'll probably get hooked like never before. I've always enjoyed the summer time beachside runs. Plenty of rod bending to be had..


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## firefish (Jan 16, 2014)

Good stuff from you guys,,,, I' m with El on the rain, I am 50 and a lifelong Brev. res. I have seen the rain MUCH worse and longer and it' s never done this. The startling thing is it seems to have happened practically overnight. I live on a canal and the vis is literally less than 0!!!! It is BROWN. It's crazy how quickly it has happened. As a kid I used to accidentally catch 6 to 8 lb trout on occasion, see my neighbor bring home 4 to 6 nice trout in the 2 lb range for dinner and that was out of a dozen or so caught , usually in only a few hours. As good as it seemed , in the 70's and 80's , It paled in comparison to the stories from older guys about the 50's and 60's ! It has seemingly been on a downhill slide for a LONG time but this is alarming ! The saying " These are the good old days !" May be at an end, At least for my age group. The earth is remarkably resiliant, But I'm beginning to wonder. These bodies of water just aren't that big and are under a heavy duty assault. My.02 on the Marquesa, Buy a bay boat at least, then you can safely cover ALL nearshore waters!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

firefish said:


> Good stuff from you guys,,,, I' m with El on the rain, I am 50 and a lifelong Brev. res. I have seen the rain MUCH worse and longer and it' s never done this. The startling thing is it seems to have happened practically overnight. I live on a canal and the vis is literally less than 0!!!! It is BROWN. It's crazy how quickly it has happened. As a kid I used to accidentally catch 6 to 8 lb trout on occasion, see my neighbor bring home 4 to 6 nice trout in the 2 lb range for dinner and that was out of a dozen or so caught , usually in only a few hours. As good as it seemed , in the 70's and 80's , It paled in comparison to the stories from older guys about the 50's and 60's ! It has seemingly been on a downhill slide for a LONG time but this is alarming ! The saying " These are the good old days !" May be at an end, At least for my age group. The earth is remarkably resiliant, But I'm beginning to wonder. These bodies of water just aren't that big and are under a heavy duty assault. My.02 on the Marquesa, Buy a bay boat at least, then you can safely cover ALL nearshore waters!


We have seen the IRL / Lagoon bounce back from several other blooms in the past 5 years but this one is right on the back of the last one with little to no clear water in between. The other blooms have done damage but I am worried this one is different. Yes the full size bay boat has also crossed my mind.


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

Guys, I'm not in the IR/ML area, but fish it a good bit and grew up fishing there. I understand that sight fishing opportunities are slim but are fish dying off? Moving out?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

windblows said:


> Guys, I'm not in the IR/ML area, but fish it a good bit and grew up fishing there. I understand that sight fishing opportunities are slim but are fish dying off? Moving out?


Yes, just saw a pic yesterday of the port st john boat ramp littered with dead drum. The bigger issue is the seagrass dying by the square mile and how it impacts everthing in the river. Without it the whole ecosystem is out of balance.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Aside from dead fish we have dead manatees, dolphins & pelicans.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

More rain on the way. The lake water needs to go south over the sugar cane fields.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Just got this off the Bonefish and Tarpons Trust site......send some emails!!!

Contact your local, state, and federal elected representatives and tell them to fast-track CERP, purchase the land to create reservoirs to store and clean freshwater, and implement strategies to reduce nutrients and contaminants in the freshwater entering the estuaries. Stay tuned to btt.org, facebook, and instagram for updates.  

*Ready to Take Action? Call and Email NOW!*

*Contact Governor Rick Scott:* 
http://www.flgov.com/contact-gov-scott/email-the-governor/ (850) 488-7146

*Contact Florida’s U.S. Senators:* 
U.S. Senator Bill Nelson (FL) https://www.billnelson.senate.gov/contact-bill 
U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (FL) http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/email-senator-rubio?p=Contact

Find and Contact Your U.S. Representatives: http://www.house.gov/representatives/#state_fl

Find and Contact Your State Senators and Representatives: 
https://www.flsenate.gov/senators/findhttp://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/myrepresentative.aspx


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Net 30 said:


> Just got this off the Bonefish and Tarpons Trust site......send some emails!!!
> 
> Contact your local, state, and federal elected representatives and tell them to fast-track CERP, purchase the land to create reservoirs to store and clean freshwater, and implement strategies to reduce nutrients and contaminants in the freshwater entering the estuaries. Stay tuned to btt.org, facebook, and instagram for updates.
> 
> ...


Thanks net30

Already sent emails to everyone, I would urge you all to do the same. Share with your friends, ask them to send emails as well. These representatives need to understand the economic impacts of their choices. The potential impacts to tourism and local economies will hit them where it hurts, more than any other appeal we can make. They dont care about dead marine life and dirty water. Sadly it's about money, so we need to figure out how to speak their language.

Example: cancelled or changed vacations either personal or friends and family, cancelled property purchases, cancelled recreational purchases, cancelled business trips / conventions .... list the dollar amounts associated with these changes.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

El9surf - I thought about your idea to cut some "inlets" near the lagoon today. If most of these nutrients are coming from lake o, through the the canal into Martin/st lucid county, and the fort pierce AND Sebastian inlet didn't clean it up, I'm not sure that another inlet near the lagoon will make enough of a difference but I could be wrong...


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

We can probably forget the whole opening an inlet idea. I just wish they would install a pump station near the lagoon and open up the locks in Canaveral for a extended period..


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I think an inlet down at the south end of the lagoon paired with the tidal flow from ponce would help a lot, even if it was temporary. Open the locks while they are at it. These don't have to be long term solutions, just enough water flow to help to keep everything healthy while they get to the root of the issue.
It's all dying as it is, they might as well give it a chance.


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

Sign up to bullsugar.org if you haven't already. I have spent my whole life on the water in FL and have never seen anything even close to this. The worst part is that it was and still is preventable, but our elected leaders seem to have made the decision to ignore the people that put them in office. It's time to take our state and our water back.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Dpreston said:


> Sign up to bullsugar.org if you haven't already. I have spent my whole life on the water in FL and have never seen anything even close to this. The worst part is that it was and still is preventable, but our elected leaders seem to have made the decision to ignore the people that put them in office. It's time to take our state and our water back.


I looked at this site a few days ago and it came across to me as having a pretty tabloid/reactionary look to it without much real substance. The issue is much, much broader than just sugar. I would think this mess is far beyond the reach of social media, though every little bit helps. I saw a clip of a "demonstration" ( I think organized by bullsugar) in Stuart a couple of weeks ago on the subject with about 100 shrill people showing up. If that's all the people they can mobilize it's not good. A politician looks at that and could think, hey it's not such a big problem.

IGFA, BTT, Sierra Club among others have much greater sway in both Tallahassee and Washington, but that's not going to get it either. Pretty depressing.


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

Blue Zone, if memory serves me correctly you had some very similar sounding choice comments on the Florida Sportsman forum supporting Bimini Bay development several years ago. That sure turned out well.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Dpreston said:


> Blue Zone, if memory serves me correctly you had some very similar sounding choice comments on the Florida Sportsman forum supporting Bimini Bay development several years ago. That sure turned out well.


No, it was was Old Bahama Bay and the issues from my side was employment for the Bahamians, Americans telling a sovereign nation how to run their country and your poor handling of a bonefish for the selfie you posted. How does that relate to my post above as similar sounding?


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

Keep up the good and productive work.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Please do not co opt this thread with your spat, I have thus far enjoyed reading it...

Is an inlet in the south end of the lagoon even feasible? playlandia?


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Dpreston said:


> Keep up the good and productive work.


You didn't answer my question. 

Have a look around this forum; it is thankfully free of snide remarks and acrimony.


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

"I looked at this site a few days ago and it came across to me as having a pretty tabloid/reactionary look to it without much real substance"

"Have a look around this forum; it is thankfully free of snide remarks and acrimony."

I have no interest in engaging with you any further Blue Zone. You always seem to have an agenda. 

BTW Old Bahama Bay turned out awesome 
http://www.thenassauguardian.com/in...8:lubert-adler-to-face-fraud-charges&Itemid=2


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Blue Zone said:


> You didn't answer my question.
> 
> Have a look around this forum; it is thankfully free of snide remarks and acrimony.


Arguing isn't going to fix the issue.

An inlet would be easy at the south end of the lagoon. In certain spots there isn't more than 150 yards of sand between the ocean and the lagoon. They would have to cut the road in half, or move slightly Noth to where the roads ends at the nudie beach. Another area that would be easy is at the south end of the north side of the park. It is feasible with an excavator it could be done in 2 days. It is a federal refuge though. They have built roads, pavilions bathrooms and a few other structures on that land so moving a bit of sand out of the way shouldn't be a big deal. It could always be covered up a couple months from now. 

We need a way to clean the water before all the grass is dead. I haven't seen a better idea in the short term. Will it create other unintended issues? Maybe.... but if we do nothing the lagoon is going to be screwed anyways. I would rather see it have a fighting chance.

Everyone is blaming fertilizers and septic tanks and that may very well be the root of the issue. Identifying and addressing the sources could take decades. In the meantime we could have clean clear water flowing in by the end of the week. Or we could sit by and watch our resources continue to die while we argue over the best course of action.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Blue Zone said:


> I looked at this site a few days ago and it came across to me as having a pretty tabloid/reactionary look to it without much real substance. The issue is much, much broader than just sugar. I would think this mess is far beyond the reach of social media, though every little bit helps. I saw a clip of a "demonstration" ( I think organized by bullsugar) in Stuart a couple of weeks ago on the subject with about 100 shrill people showing up. If that's all the people they can mobilize it's not good. A politician looks at that and could think, hey it's not such a big problem.
> 
> IGFA, BTT, Sierra Club among others have much greater sway in both Tallahassee and Washington, but that's not going to get it either. Pretty depressing.


I spoke with Marty Baum from here: http://indianriverkeeper.org quite a character and his family has lived on the river since 1886 or something crazy like that. Anyways his org and bullsugar are actively suing the state for discharging Lake O discharge into the St.Lucie and Caloosahatchee rivers. They're the only folks actually doing something.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

It's hard el just sitting back knowing a temporary solution is feasible and within arms reach. Unfortunately, these issues are solved by the Government and we all know how fast they are to react to situations not involving war. The area between the NSB and Titusville Refuge would be perfect for this as its already not accessible. Issue here is that a temporary inlet just cut in the earth may provide relief at first but if not planned correctly, could also be very short lived. The volume of sand redirected into the lagoon would be tremendous and quickly be blocked by deposits with the tidal changes. This could also lead to extreme tidal changes in the lagoon, which I'm not sure is suitable or not. Let's just hope that they already have a game plan in the works and pray for the best. Anything at this point would be better than what we have..


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

el9surf said:


> Arguing isn't going to fix the issue.
> 
> An inlet would be easy at the south end of the lagoon. In certain spots there isn't more than 150 yards of sand between the ocean and the lagoon. They would have to cut the road in half, or move slightly Noth to where the roads ends at the nudie beach. Another area that would be easy is at the south end of the north side of the park. It is feasible with an excavator it could be done in 2 days. It is a federal refuge though. They have built roads, pavilions bathrooms and a few other structures on that land so moving a bit of sand out of the way shouldn't be a big deal. It could always be covered up a couple months from now.
> 
> ...


I would be very cautious about opening up the lagoons to the ocean. Just look at the mess we're in over here in Louisiana due to salt water intrusion into the marsh. Not that it might not help in the short term but it could be a pandora s box. A possible lock system that could regulate salt water and maybe even fresh water input into the system could be interesting.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Lets start a movement to quit eating sugar. Think about it. We could solve diabetes, heart disease, obesity, cavities, and the IRL water issues with one movement. It could quite possibly be the best thing that has ever happened to this country and maybe even the world since the creation of antibiotics.

Orrr we could quit eating so much meat which would drive down corn prices and thus high fructose corn syrup down to nothing. Increased competition would force the sugar companies out of business!!!!! 

We could eat more rice and create a market for rice fields in south Florida which require flooding, which would be great for the glades, the IRL, and the entire health and welfare of our nation.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

When the problem is caused solely by "Mother Nature", she fixes it naturally. When man causes it, politicians look the other way, don't answer ?'s, and do nothing ! Example: the bald one (Gov. Scott) was on tv this am,would not not answer same ? 3times, so they dumped him. My friends DO NOT GIVE UP, this IS our country. E-mail and call those in charge AS MUCH AS YOU CAN and then....VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Fishicaltherapist you're right, and you'd think Scott would be crapping his pants since he has a mansion on the water in Naples...but that's prolly too far south from the Caloosahatchee to affect his waterfront view. I despise politics.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

This is the problem. We have a viable short term solution at our fingertips 150 yards to the east and everyone says it won't work. The possible fix is written off before it is even tried. They say it will cause problems, it will fill in sand bla bla bla..... Meanwhile the experts are going to take the next decade to figure out the issue while the IRL system goes to hell.

The simple fact is that it hasn't been tried locally so all the negative consequences are all pessimistic speculation. What if it were to work? What if it saved the lagoon? Wouldn't that be worth trying? What if it didn't work? Would we be any worse off for trying? 

If there is no intervention what do you guys suppose will happen? It's going to be 85 degrees here tomorrow. This shit thrives in the heat which is already here.

This issue needs intervention. Waiting to let it correct itself, or waiting while we address fertilizer and the millions of septic tanks isn't a good option right now.


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## swaddict (Dec 19, 2009)

there used to be an inlet/opening in the south end of the lagoon along with a coast guard station, until a hurricane filled it up


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

swaddict said:


> there used to be an inlet/opening in the south end of the lagoon along with a coast guard station, until a hurricane filled it up


Did not know that. How long ago was this? How long was that inlet open? Where exactly?
If one existed in the past and it didn't negatively alter the lagoon as everyone suggested then maybe it can be used as precedent to make a new temporary opening.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

swaddict said:


> there used to be an inlet/opening in the south end of the lagoon along with a coast guard station, until a hurricane filled it up


In that case, reopening it is probably necessary. CCA just re opened a historic pass in Texas. Don't see why they couldn't do the same thing in Florida, especially for such a famous spot as the lagoons.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Swaddict
If you, or anyone else has info about that old inlet please share. I have been on the phone with the FL department of environmental protection this afternoon and now have 2 different contacts of people that manage these areas. Any ideas we can provide them are better than nothing.


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## swaddict (Dec 19, 2009)

From the photos that were handed down to me, it appears to be in the 1930's. The location was around the last parking lot in Playa Linda.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

swaddict said:


> From the photos that were handed down to me, it appears to be in the 1930's. The location was around the last parking lot in Playa Linda.


Kenny f***ing Powers comes through! 

El9 - can you share the contact info that you have found? Maybe if we mass call someone will listen.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

yobata said:


> Kenny f***ing Powers comes through!
> 
> El9 - can you share the contact info that you have found? Maybe if we mass call someone will listen.


Yes but give me till Monday so I can try and get in touch with one of the people. I left messages for 2 people after talking to numerous people and getting directed to them. Would like to have a conversation before I post their info online and piss them off.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Swaddict, 
Cool photos. I was searching on Google, it was coast guard station 203. I didn't see any info specific to the inlet. My father in laws family was one of the original families that settled the cape.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

I couldn't find anything on their website yet, but the latest issue of saltwater sportsman has a news article on page 14 about this issue and what the politicians are other agencies are doing about it. The highlights: gov. Scott stopped the corps' freshwater flow from Lake O not long after it started, but the damage was already done. There's a bill going before the state legislature to fast track all everglades restoration projects supported by CCA and other similar organizations. I can list the legislators presenting the bill later if anyone's interested.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

Swaddict beat me to it I remember growing up my great grandmother spoke of the inlet down there and after it closed in the coast guard station followed! Besides that I have no clue how long it was there but if viewed by a map it' was pretty much centered between inlets creating good water flow! I agree something needs to be done and like someone said before sometimes a short term solution causes more problems but to me it seems like that was already an option in the 30's or 40's why not bring it back I never heard any stories of how terrible the water was back in the lagoon fishing boom of the 50's and 60's or even 70's 80's for that matter!


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

pt448 said:


> I couldn't find anything on their website yet, but the latest issue of saltwater sportsman has a news article on page 14 about this issue and what the politicians are other agencies are doing about it. The highlights: gov. Scott stopped the corps' freshwater flow from Lake O not long after it started, but the damage was already done. There's a bill going before the state legislature to fast track all everglades restoration projects supported by CCA and other similar organizations. I can list the legislators presenting the bill later if anyone's interested.


Does that mean all freshwater East and West or just South? Can you list the other organizations in addition to CCA?

Back to the IRL, one thought may be a large underground culvert from the old CG site going some way offshore as a flusher. I have always been intrigued with the idea of tidal turbine power generation and this could become a self-funding project done quickly with private investment.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

El9 so far I believe you have sparked some serious interest from quite a few people! This may be in need of a bigger audience than "need for a technical skiff" forum (no offense to micro skiff.com or yourself for that matter) what I'm trying to say is going straight to the top is great but this might be something that the city county needs to be aware of first so it can have the backing of local officials believe me they like their pockets lined just like the big dogs at the top! Starting here in NSB and Volusia would be a great stepping stone. I am sure someone will say it's bigger than that and I agree but that's where it loses momentum!! Starting at the top almost always ends in defeat due to resources! Just my .02 I'm on board with any movement that is taken!


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## Jay Brimberry (Sep 1, 2015)

el9surf said:


> Thanks for the info, I will do some reading. In years past the rain has been much worse for longer periods of time. The St. John's is currently a little over its banks but not by a lot, around the levels we would normally see in November. The St. Johns is a pretty good gauge of rainfall and although January was a wet month it has been fairly dry lately. With the levels well below flood stage why is this algae thriving? It can't be solely due to the rain we got in January.


There are numerous reasons the excess rain is causing the problems. When it rains and the ground is saturated it has to go somewhere. In the towns and cities it runs of into drainage ditches which eventually makes it to the lagoon. The problem with that is it picks up contaminates on the way. Namely fertilizer from everyone's yards and agricultural sites. This nitrogen and these phosphates are nutrients that not only feed the intended plants in your yard and on the farm, they feed algae. By ditching and draining marshes and swamps we have created this problem. Think of swamps and marshes along with flood plains of streams and rivers as the "kidneys" of the environment. In reality, the soil of south and central Florida is not that fertile, in order to grow the lawns, gardens and to have the extensive agriculture there you have to use large amounts of nitrogen and phosphate. If you have ever kept a saltwater aquarium, or a freshwater one for that mater, you are familiar with the nitrogen and phosphate cycles and if they are mismanaged you will loose a lot of expensive fish. The Everglades Agricultural Area also pumps its excess water back in to Lake O and then when the levels are too high there the water is sent down either the St. Lucie or the Caloosahatchee Rivers with all these nutrient rich waters without ever being "cleaned" via the natural process of being scrubbed by swamps and marshes.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Correct Jay. Speed up the Everglades restoration project. More sheet flow water(not canals) south of the lake. Ag land buyouts required but the ag is Federally subsidized any way.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Blue Zone said:


> Does that mean all freshwater East and West or just South? Can you list the other organizations in addition to CCA?
> 
> Back to the IRL, one thought may be a large underground culvert from the old CG site going some way offshore as a flusher. I have always been intrigued with the idea of tidal turbine power generation and this could become a self-funding project done quickly with private investment.


"Following record-breaking rainfall in January, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers released millions of gallons of water from Lake Okeechobee through the Caloosahatchee and St. Lucie rivers, flushing large amounts of pollutants into coastal areas." Rick Scott stopped it on Feb. 15. The organizations named in the article are the American Sportfishing Association and CCA. The legislators that introduced a bill to expedite the 'glades projects are Sen. Bill Nelson and Reps Alcee Hastings and Mario Diaz-Balart. "If the legislation passes, the Central Everglades Planning Project, which will increase water flow south into the Everglades, reducing the harmful discharges to the St. Lucie and Caloosahatchee rivers, would be authorized immediately."


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

The Lake O issue and the NIRL / Lagoon issues I believe are seperate by source of pollution, however very similar with nutrient rich water to feed these blooms. Having said that I feel like we are doing ourselves an injustice by waiting for it to fix itself, or worse, waiting for the government to fix it. Any suggestions on where to start locally in Volusia county? Is the site of the old Coast Guard station owned by Volusia? I thought it was federal land.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

Just a silly thought: Hey Rick, you want to be a Senator? EASY..............START the process to fix our polluted waterways, NOW, RIGHT NOW, TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $$$$ run campaigns,VOTES get you elected!


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

pt448 said:


> "Following record-breaking rainfall in January, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers released millions of gallons of water from Lake Okeechobee through the Caloosahatchee and St. Lucie rivers, flushing large amounts of pollutants into coastal areas." Rick Scott stopped it on Feb. 15. The organizations named in the article are the American Sportfishing Association and CCA. The legislators that introduced a bill to expedite the 'glades projects are Sen. Bill Nelson and Reps Alcee Hastings and Mario Diaz-Balart. "If the legislation passes, the Central Everglades Planning Project, which will increase water flow south into the Everglades, reducing the harmful discharges to the St. Lucie and Caloosahatchee rivers, would be authorized immediately."


No reflection on you, but this Saltwater Sportsman article is incorrect on the stoppage on Feb. 15. Never happened; the Lake O discharge is still running over one billion gallons per day. It has also been going South for a couple of weeks.
http://w3.saj.usace.army.mil/h2o/reports/StatusDaily_files/slide0178.htm


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

el9surf said:


> This is the problem. We have a viable short term solution at our fingertips 150 yards to the east and everyone says it won't work. The possible fix is written off before it is even tried. They say it will cause problems, it will fill in sand bla bla bla..... Meanwhile the experts are going to take the next decade to figure out the issue while the IRL system goes to hell.
> 
> The simple fact is that it hasn't been tried locally so all the negative consequences are all pessimistic speculation. What if it were to work? What if it saved the lagoon? Wouldn't that be worth trying? What if it didn't work? Would we be any worse off for trying?
> 
> ...


I am not a botanist, marine biologist, or hydrologist, but by satellite images I can see that around Atlantic and Gulf inlets there is nothing but sandbars for miles around them. This shows me that there isn't enough space for an inlet to Mosquito Lagoon that wouldn't destroy it.

Also like pt448 I witnessed what dredging canals in South Louisiana does to the coastal marshes and swamps.

Google Earth these coordinates: 29.845594, -91.840501 This the intersection of a small bayou and the channel for the Port of Iberia where we had a hunting camp on the corner. That small bayou going towards the west was once a narrow slough, and where the camp was is under water. That all happened because somebody had the idea to dredge the port channel and add that canal that goes straight across the marsh into Weeks Bay.

It was great for the port business, but the side effect was it increased tidal swings. Nobody seemed to care until property owners noticed their land was being taken away by the tides.So the state put in a weir at the mouth of that bayou in an attempt to curb tidal flows and stop the erosion. The weir was around 50' across in 1978. But it was too late and the higher than normal tide waters caused by the deeper Port Channel would cut another path around the sides of the weir. Once they figured out the weir wasn't going to work they had it taken out. Now its around 50 yards across at that spot. 

And since all that dirt from the marsh fills in the channel they have to keep dredging it to keep the Port of Iberia open. The only way they are going to get off that merry-go-round is to stop dredging, let the channel fill in, and wait another 1000 years for nature to rebuild all that marsh that was washed into the bay.

It's NOT bla bla bla.....that mistake has been made before, digging another channel is NOT a solution, and would devastate the Lagoons.

In his presentation last week, Dr Adams used a cigarette smoking analogy for the lagoon problem. It takes years of smoking thousands of cigarettes to cause emphysema. And even if you get a lung transplant you will get emphysema again if you don't stop smoking.

My takeaway from the presentation is the flow of excess nutrients and contaminants into the estuary must be stopped. This can be done by eliminating septic tanks and adding filter marshes to consume nutrients in waters going into the lagoon. And alternatives to chemical herbicide and pesticides must also be used to stop the contaminants.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Mike I don't disagree with most of what you have written. Unfortunately adding filter marshes and addressing septic tanks herbicides / fertilizers will take years if not decades to address. The lagoon will be dead, nothing but a distant memory by that time.

If there was an inlet at the southern end in the past and it didn't destroy the lagoon as suggested maybe that could be a temporary solution. I believe its worth investigating. This doesn't have to be a huge navigable channel 30 ft deep. It could be just enough of a cut to let some water exchange. If it's in place for 2-3 months and it doesn't work they could plug it back up. Worst case we would be back to square 1 with a dying lagoon. If it did work we would have a temporary solution in the event of a bloom like we are experiencing. Heck they could probably figure a way to open and close the water flow when needed. It would buy us time while they work to address the permanent solutions mentioned above.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

el9surf said:


> We have seen the IRL / Lagoon bounce back from several other blooms in the past 5 years but this one is right on the back of the last one with little to no clear water in between. The other blooms have done damage but I am worried this one is different. Yes the full size bay boat has also crossed my mind.


I have a question. Is there any phosphate mines near any of those systems or near canals or rivers that drain into those systems?


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

swaddict said:


> there used to be an inlet/opening in the south end of the lagoon along with a coast guard station, until a hurricane filled it up


I'm not seeing anything about an inlet, just a shelter.

http://www.uscg.mil/history/stations/mosquitolagoon.pdf

LOCATION: On beach outside the lagoon; 28-51' 30"N x 80-46' 20"W

Also on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houses_of_Refuge_in_Florida

Appears to be the Apollo Beach turn around at Lot 5.

Canaveral National Seashore, Co Road A1A, New Smyrna Beach, FL

Rather than poking an inlet I think putting in a windmill farm along the coast to pump sea water across the dune would be less intrusive, and more controllable for flushing the high nutrient waters out through the exisitng inlets instead of an in/out dilution cycle through a new inlet that may actually push high nutrient waters into areas that don't need flushing. I would donate money for that. Anybody else want to get in on this? Maybe Elon Musk and Falcon X could pay for it?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm not opposed to that idea as log as it is something that could be done quickly. I have been pushing the idea of a small inlet because in theory it could be done I a weeks time if all the zoning, permits, politics...... we're put into place.

Anyone up for a science experiment?
I will go do it as soon as I can get to the coast. For those of you that live closer this might be a good way to validate the idea from multiple areas.

Collect a small sample of algae water from the irl, let's say 6 oz. Get two5 gallon buckets of ocean water. Let one 5 gallon bucket remain untouched. Mix the algae water sample into the the other 5 gallon bucket and stir every few days. Let's see if the algae will grow in the ocean water. After a couple weeks we should have an easy visual comparison. The percentage of algae water mixed into clean ocean water would be much higher in this experiment than it would be in actual application should an inlet be put in place.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Blue Zone said:


> No reflection on you, but this Saltwater Sportsman article is incorrect on the stoppage on Feb. 15. Never happened; the Lake O discharge is still running over one billion gallons per day. It has also been going South for a couple of weeks.
> http://w3.saj.usace.army.mil/h2o/reports/StatusDaily_files/slide0178.htm


Thanks for letting is know. Sounds like someone at SWS needs to check their facts.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

MariettaMike said:


> I'm not seeing anything about an inlet, just a shelter.
> 
> http://www.uscg.mil/history/stations/mosquitolagoon.pdf
> 
> ...


Mike, a couple of posts ago I suggested a large underground culvert. Using your example in LA, I wouldn't think a pump would be required as the oceanside tidal swing is probably greater than in the Lagoon. It's just a question of how far down the inlets and outlets on both sides need to be placed. This could be opened and closed at will and as a bonus a turbine could be placed inside to generate power rather than employing power to operate a pump.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

I'm not against trying anything at this point. All I know is the water that is around the Port canaveral locks and the water down by Sebastian is no better than other areas in central Brevard. So I'm not sure if the flow matters. I'd like to see them cut a channel
Near Patrick Air Force base, Pineda causeway is very narrow area. Then mandate removal of all septic tanks near waterways first. Ban chemical fertilizer in coastal cities.


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

Focusing on CEPP seems to be the current preferred tactic of those that are 'on the sugar', as CEPP (Central Everglades Planning Project) doesn't address buying the land needed to make CERP (Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan) work. The UF study that our legislature commissioned is pretty clear that in order for CERP to work it needs a significant land acquisition, which is generally agreed to be +/- 60,000 acres south of Lake O. The CCA has taken a very murky, if not invisible stance on the discharge issues, but their interests seem to be aligned with the state political powers, particularly in their distain for making any mention of 'the land' whatsoever in their press releases and communications.

It's very interesting to read these pieces as they come out - once you start to understand what to look for, you can pick up the spin pretty easily. Anyways as a couple people have mentioned, the ML issues are stemming from a different source, and from what I understand the use of herbicides are playing a large role, but there definitely seem to be some parallels to what is happening further south. It's just unbelievable that pretty much ever inshore estuary in the southern half of the state, and some in the northern half, seem to be collapsing at the same time. Just hope that we haven't hit the tipping point of no return.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

grovesnatcher said:


> I'm not against trying anything at this point. All I know is the water that is around the Port canaveral locks and the water down by Sebastian is no better than other areas in central Brevard. So I'm not sure if the flow matters. I'd like to see them cut a channel
> Near Patrick Air Force base, Pineda causeway is very narrow area. Then mandate removal of all septic tanks near waterways first. Ban chemical fertilizer in coastal cities.


If you go south of Sebastian at some point you start to run into the issue being caused by the St. Lucie discharge. The line of where the IRL bloom issue begins and where the St Luci discharge ends is going to be difficult to know. As you go North of Sebastian to the banana nmz and into titusville & scottsmore there is very little to 0 tidal flow. Same thing happens going south into the lagoon away from ponce. It's funny how the north end of the lagoon was the first part to clear up in Mid January. I don't think it's a coincidence.

I went up to the Halifax north of ponce up near Matanzas this past weekend and the water up there didn't appear to be impacted by algae. It is stained but its always been like that every time i have been up there in the past. That area has ponce to the south and matanzas to the north with constant tidal flow in between.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

el9surf said:


> I'm not opposed to that idea as log as it is something that could be done quickly. I have been pushing the idea of a small inlet because in theory it could be done I a weeks time if all the zoning, permits, politics...... we're put into place.
> 
> Anyone up for a science experiment?
> I will go do it as soon as I can get to the coast. For those of you that live closer this might be a good way to validate the idea from multiple areas.
> ...


I freaking love I f...ing love science.
https://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience/?fref=ts

It seems to me the purpose of adding an inlet would be to allow high turbidity (opaque), algae laden goon water leave the estuary on outgoing tides and be replaced with low turbidity (clear) ocean water on incoming tides similarly to what Ponce Inlet does for the north end of Mosquito Lagoon. Though the sea water does not kill the algae it does reduce nutrient concentration levels and should cause the algae to run out of food and die quicker. The dilution also reduces turbidity to allow more sunlight through and allow the grass flats to live. Google satellite images show this to be true when you look at the changes from 2013 to present for the northern end grass flats as compared to the southern end grass flats.

If there was another inlet on Mosquito Lagoon that was filled in by a hurricane in the 1930's it would make sense that it was around Lot 5 based on topography. Thus it might also be the better place to put another inlet, but I think my chances of winning the powerball are better than the NPS or turtle huggers from around the US allowing that.

For your experiment all I think you need to figure out is how much dilution is needed to reduce turbidity to acceptable levels for subsurface plants to achieve photosynthesis. I would not be surprised that you need to add over 400% sea water to the lagoon water to get turbidity down to acceptable levels because the algae will produce more algae to contaminate the added sea water as long as nutrient levels support their growth. It is my understanding that starvation, old age, or consumption are the only things that kill algae.

http://creative.news-journalonline.com/troubledwater/


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

MariettaMike said:


> I freaking love I f...ing love science.
> https://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience/?fref=ts
> 
> It seems to me the purpose of adding an inlet would be to allow high turbidity (opaque), algae laden goon water leave the estuary on outgoing tides and be replaced with low turbidity (clear) ocean water on incoming tides similarly to what Ponce Inlet does for the north end of Mosquito Lagoon. Though the sea water does not kill the algae it does reduce nutrient concentration levels and should cause the algae to run out of food and die quicker. The dilution also reduces turbidity to allow more sunlight through and allow the grass flats to live. Google satellite images show this to be true when you look at the changes from 2013 to present for the northern end grass flats as compared to the southern end grass flats.
> ...



Bingo. You communicated that a lot better than did lol. 

Anyone live on the coast that would be willing to volunteer?


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## J-Dad (Aug 30, 2015)

I'd volunteer. And I think is a case where the turtles-huggers and other environmentalists would be aligned with anglers - a dead IRL isn't good for anyone.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm willing to volunteer I'm on the water at least once a week at or near the exact spot where the old inlet was! Turtle Huggers may be a sleeping giant that could be woken up I can't tell you how many juvenile turtles habitat the open waters of the lagoon! you know who else would be a good tree to shake is the duck hunters that frequent merrit island the water quality in the refuge this year was terrible and that is not just duck hunters a lot of people frequent the Shiloh roads for bird watching!!!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

ADicus said:


> I'm willing to volunteer I'm on the water at least once a week at or near the exact spot where the old inlet was! Turtle Huggers may be a sleeping giant that could be woken up I can't tell you how many juvenile turtles habitat the open waters of the lagoon! you know who else would be a good tree to shake is the duck hunters that frequent merrit island the water quality in the refuge this year was terrible and that is not just duck hunters a lot of people frequent the Shiloh roads for bird watching!!!


For those of you that want to volunteer with the water experiment I will make a seperate post. Also if you could pm me with some basic contact info including email I will keep track of everything . I'm not a scientist so I'm not sure the best way to go about it. I just have some basic ideas about how to prove this idea in concept. We would need to lay out a standad set of parameters so anyone could participate. The more results we have the better. Feel free to make suggestions on the new thread.

The second half of the experiment would be getting the water samples and results in front of people that will listen with an open mind.

I have a friend that was a biologist for the state, I'm going to contact him to see if he has any friends that could help.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Did you get a chance to make it over to the Salty Fly Tourney? There was someone there who spoke on the subject you are on right now, but I didn't catch his name. You might email Sam Root and ask him who it was and get with him since he's hot on the same subject

In the mean time I have a question I asked up above. Is there any phosphate mines that are near the IRL or lagoon system or on any river or calal that drains into it. If so, there can be a direct link to your problem and I can explain how. We are having the same problem over here but we have the advantage of better tidal flow than you do over there. Anyway, if so, then I will elaborate on the cause and effect it's having and the direct link to the problem it maybe causing.


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## Flats Tanley (Aug 30, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Did you get a chance to make it over to the Salty Fly Tourney? There was someone there who spoke on the subject you are on right now, but I didn't catch his name. You might email Sam Root and ask him who it was and get with him since he's hot on the same subject
> 
> In the mean time I have a question I asked up above. Is there any phosphate mines that are near the IRL or lagoon system or on any river or calal that drains into it. If so, there can be a direct link to your problem and I can explain how. We are having the same problem over here but we have the advantage of better tidal flow than you do over there. Anyway, if so, then I will elaborate on the cause and effect it's having and the direct link to the problem it maybe causing.



According to the database all of the active phosphate mine in Florida are in the Polk County area

http://active-mines.findthedata.com/d/d/Florida


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> Did you get a chance to make it over to the Salty Fly Tourney? There was someone there who spoke on the subject you are on right now, but I didn't catch his name. You might email Sam Root and ask him who it was and get with him since he's hot on the same subject
> 
> In the mean time I have a question I asked up above. Is there any phosphate mines that are near the IRL or lagoon system or on any river or calal that drains into it. If so, there can be a direct link to your problem and I can explain how. We are having the same problem over here but we have the advantage of better tidal flow than you do over there. Anyway, if so, then I will elaborate on the cause and effect it's having and the direct link to the problem it maybe causing.


Thanks for the info Ted, I will try and track him down. As for the phosphate mines none that I'm aware of. Do they have to be active? Maybe someone here will know more about that.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

They don't have to be active. If you look at any phosphate mine, even old abandon ones, they have what they call Gyp (gypsum) stacks. They look like small mountains. That is the by-product after they extract the phosphates used for fertilizers. The process uses sulfuric acid and water to separate the product and then add more water to the slurry and it's pump the acid with the bi-product up to the top of these gyp stacks in hopes it will evaporate (imagine all the gyp stacks having sulfuric acid being evaporated into the atmosphere over the years (acid rain comes to mind).

Anyway, the phosphate by-product stays up on top and continues to be added to, but the slurry is slow to evaporate. On google earth, they look like lakes on top of those gyp stacks. The real problem is when we have too much rain, those lakes can overflow and run off the gyp stacks. Those corporations are suppose to maintain and contain any water run offs. But there are many abandon gyp stacks that are from companies that went under years ago. We have one on the eastern wall of Tampa Bay.

Here's where the problem lies. Nobody wants to make claim and maintain those abandon gyp stacks, not even the State since it's a major liability. Back in 2004 when we had all those hurricanes run through, the one on Tampa Bay overflowed, causing water to run off in bullfrogs creek and in the Alafia River. The acid killed countless fish. But the liquid phosphate slurry caused an algae bloom bigger than the bay has seen in years.

The following year the EPA got a bright idea (bright as in dumb) and decided to pump out the lake on top of the gyp stack, into ocean going barges, take them offshore straight out from Tampa Bay and dump it out there in hopes the tides would take it offshore. So one after the other, the barges went back and forth, dumping millions of gallons of this stuff out there.

What they didn't calculate was over the next 3 years the tide systematically brought in the liquid fertilizer back towards shore, depending on how the tide moved back and forth from that spot throughout the year, starting from the south and working along the coast northward, whenever we had a lot of freshwater run offs, the fertilizer helped super charge the algae blooms and there we had redtide on steriods like this area has ever seen, killing fish all up and down the gulf coast. Those next few years, Tampa Bay seen it's worst red tide ever and the water color was brown from it.

So from central Florida eastward towards Mosquito Lagoon and the IRL, even a few ditch run of of the overflow from active or abandon gyp stacks and mine operations, over time will cause the algae to bloom more and more especially during big freshwater run offs, unless there is a big release of overflow, which will cause huge blooms, which looks like brown muddy water tides coming in.

By the looks of those pics you have, that might be your problem. It's a multi billion dollar industry and nobody wants to face these giants head to head and require accountability. Nor do anyone want to take responsibility for the cleanup for these abandon gyp stacks left over by defunked companies. So it requires a team hired by the State of Florida to evaluate and figure out a proper solution. But the State nor the EPA is doing anything about it.

Ted


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## Troutset (Aug 23, 2015)

Backwater said:


> They don't have to be active. If you look at any phosphate mine, even old abandon ones, they have what they call Gyp (gypsum) stacks. They look like small mountains. That is the by-product after they extract the phosphates used for fertilizers. The process uses sulfuric acid and water to separate the product and then add more water to the slurry and it's pump the acid with the bi-product up to the top of these gyp stacks in hopes it will evaporate (imagine all the gyp stacks having sulfuric acid being evaporated into the atmosphere over the years (acid rain comes to mind).
> 
> Anyway, the phosphate by-product stays up on top and continues to be added to, but the slurry is slow to evaporate. On google earth, they look like lakes on top of those gyp stacks. The real problem is when we have too much rain, those lakes can overflow and run off the gyp stacks. Those corporations are suppose to maintain and contain any water run offs. But there are many abandon gyp stacks that are from companies that went under years ago. We have one on the eastern wall of Tampa Bay.
> 
> ...


Phosphate mines are focused on the deposits along the Florida ridge, extending from Alachua to Arcadia. No mines were dug on the east coast.


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## Troutset (Aug 23, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Doesn't have to be dug on the east coast. If the phosphate is processed closer to there or any water system near it (them) drains out to the east coast, then the phosphate infused water can end up there and the deposits thereof. It dissolves in flowing water, yet can settle and separate in still water.


Very unlikely as any runoff would need to cross two to three watersheds and a major river. It is very unfortunate for the lagoon to look the way it does but the best thing would to leave it alone or perhaps a temporary closure to let the place heal, God knows the place needs a rest. We had a record amount of rainfall (>400%) the last two months and the runoff that occurs creates a nutrient rich environment for the algae. If the rains stop and the nutrients don't get replenished, the algae will starve itself out. It may be after next winter before that occurs so we need to be patient. It was a very abnormal winter and Mother Nature has a way of equalizing itself. All will return to normal as long as we don't mess it up by digging ditches, inlets, or redirecting water, as we need to learn from the fiasco down south.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Most of the large Phosphate mines are between Vero and Tampa - smack middle of the state.

Experts I talked to say the Lagoon problems are attributed to decades of agricultural fertilizers, pesticides, , polluted freshwater from residential runoff, canals/waterfront developments, leeching septic systems and past environmental/weather events.

Unfortunately, what took decades to destroy will take decades to fix. Hard choice now is to decide it it's worth waiting around to see if the political system can & will do anything. Me personally....at my age I'm beginning to look for other areas to relocate that are less impacted by man and have a healthy population of fish.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

What's the average salinity of lagoon? 

Just curious.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Troutset said:


> Very unlikely as any runoff would need to cross two to three watersheds and a major river. It is very unfortunate for the lagoon to look the way it does but the best thing would to leave it alone or perhaps a temporary closure to let the place heal, God knows the place needs a rest. We had a record amount of rainfall (>400%) the last two months and the runoff that occurs creates a nutrient rich environment for the algae. If the rains stop and the nutrients don't get replenished, the algae will starve itself out. It may be after next winter before that occurs so we need to be patient. It was a very abnormal winter and Mother Nature has a way of equalizing itself. All will return to normal as long as we don't mess it up by digging ditches, inlets, or redirecting water, as we need to learn from the fiasco down south.


See below on salinity and its effects; Mother Nature cannot fix man's screw-ups. Aside from that, I'm not sure doing nothing is a big problem-solver. 



Troutset said:


> Phosphate mines are focused on the deposits along the Florida ridge, extending from Alachua to Arcadia. No mines were dug on the east coast.


FYI the entire state is sitting on phosphate and it has been particular problem with Vero's drinking water, which Net 30 may have been referring to.



Capt. Eli Whidden said:


> What's the average salinity of lagoon?
> 
> Just curious.


Great question. 

As you probably know there has been a parallel problem with algae blooms and grass die-off in Florida Bay. This has been attributed to hyper-salinity due to the lack of fresh water coming through from the Glades. This has been pretty well covered on here in the Fishing Reports section. Sea water is generally around 3.5% salt. Where the bloom and die-off occurred in Florida Bay the level reached as high as 7%. It should be easy enough to find out from the EPA in the area.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Anyone want to go feed the tarpon at Robbies?


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## Troutset (Aug 23, 2015)

Blue Zone said:


> See below on salinity and its effects; Mother Nature cannot fix man's screw-ups. Aside from that, I'm not sure doing nothing is a big problem-solver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Blue Zone said:


> See below on salinity and its effects; Mother Nature cannot fix man's screw-ups. Aside from that, I'm not sure doing nothing is a big problem-solver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I disagree. It will fix itself as long as we can stop compounding the issues within the watershed.

Also rock phosphate is not present throughout the state of Florida. Any deposits along the east coast are minuscule to non existent compared to the ridge deposits. Vero's problems are a separate issue.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Troutset said:


> I disagree. It will fix itself as long as we can stop compounding the issues within the watershed.
> 
> Also rock phosphate is not present throughout the state of Florida. Any deposits along the east coast are minuscule to non existent compared to the ridge deposits. Vero's problems are a separate issue.


At the moment there are very few actions in place to stop the issues. Certainly not enough to reverse or stop what is happening. Just test, water samples and ideas of what needs to be done in the long term. Once solutions are identified, approved, funded and implemented how long do you suppose that will take? So I'm curious as to how it is going to fix itself? Mother nature is resilliant to a degree but this is a man made problem. Sometimes man made problems require man made interventions to fix our screw ups. 

Some years back they opened the canaveral loch after a hurricane to relieve the excess water. I believe it was around the time of Charlie, Jean and Francis. The banana river didn't suffer as a result. 

In my eyes this is similar to a wildfire threatening homes. If you do nothing the results come at you in slow motion with certainty. If you dig fire lines and break out the hoses and do controlled burns you might have a chance.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

If you guys take the time to read this article it validates the idea of water exchange. Not through inlets but through pumping stations and wiers. It discusses the areas I have been mentioning, south lagoon and north bananna, along with one additional one around Patrick Airforce Base.

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2015/08/21/canaveral-lock-save-lagoon/32132331/


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

about 70 days or less! I like that!!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Some studies on Texas hyper saline brown tide. http://www.jstor.org/stable/1353236?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

I was in Florida from 87-08 and witnessed some significant development and remarkable increases in population over those years. Kind of a bummer in my view. More people usually mean more problems. Wish you all the best from the new home base in Texas. 

Here is was Brown and red tides with a few unreported fish kills. And Vibrio.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks for the study sjrobin.

Does anybody know the salinity differences between the lagoon, irl and ocean water?


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

el9surf said:


> Thanks for the study sjrobin.
> 
> Does anybody know the salinity differences between the lagoon, irl and ocean water?


Ocean water runs about 3.5% salt. The optimum range for the IRL is 1.9-2.7%.

FAU has a lab just South of Vero which has 8 or so water quality monitoring devices between Stuart and Sebastian. Currently Vero is 3%. Results appear to be updated every couple of hours.
http://fau.loboviz.com


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Blue Zone said:


> Ocean water runs about 3.5% salt. The optimum range for the IRL is 1.9-2.7%.
> 
> FAU has a lab just South of Vero which has 8 or so water quality monitoring devices between Stuart and Sebastian. Currently Vero is 3%. Results appear to be updated every couple of hours.
> http://fau.loboviz.com



Great work being done by ORCA based in Ft. Pierce. The following site has daily results from the Kilroy monitors in the lagoon...very cool data. Good group of people that could use a donation from concerned anglers!

http://api.kilroydata.org/public/


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

Indian River Lagoon reaches a tipping point 

The Indian River Lagoon teeters on the brink, but experts say it can recover. 

Check out this story on floridatoday.com: http://on.flatoday.com/1SOlI80


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

^ Good read!


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

^x2! Good job Jim Waymer! And thanks @grovesnatcher


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

It's not fixing itself. 

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2016/03/18/report-fish-kill-brevard-county/81992006/


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

This video is sad as sh*t!
https://www.facebook.com/SLICKRICK86420/posts/10208731004695201


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

yobata said:


> This video is sad as sh*t!
> https://www.facebook.com/SLICKRICK86420/posts/10208731004695201


Yeah its not good at all.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

yobata said:


> This video is sad as sh*t!
> https://www.facebook.com/SLICKRICK86420/posts/10208731004695201





el9surf said:


> Yeah its not good at all.


The harbor town marina is less than 1 mile from the canaveral locks. So the water should be somewhat better? I say open them up and let's see if it improves the area.


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## firefish (Jan 16, 2014)

X'S 2,,, I mean ,, What could it hurt ?????? ........ on second thought,Maybe the beach waters?????????would be like St. lucie area waters when they dumped all Okechobee water! This may prove more difficult than we think ! A final thought,,,, The ocean is NOT so vast that we can dump or flush, anything we want in it ,and it will just "Go away" !!!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

firefish said:


> X'S 2,,, I mean ,, What could it hurt ?????? ........ on second thought,Maybe the beach waters?????????would be like St. lucie area waters when they dumped all Okechobee water! This may prove more difficult than we think ! A final thought,,,, The ocean is NOT so vast that we can dump or flush, anything we want in it ,and it will just "Go away" !!!


I highly doubt they will open the lochs. One of the articles I posted a page or two back said last time they opened them in 2008 to relieve flooding resulted poorly. They left them open for a week after one of the hurricanes and ended up breaking a part and couldn't get them closed. They are not going to risk sandbar buildup in the port, there is too much money going in and out of canaveral every day.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Just saw this.....UNREAL

https://www.facebook.com/justin.vade...1628202185752/


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

I don't know what to say. People have been warning me that this was coming for around 8 years now. To quote Miley, it "came in like a wreeeecking ball"

I have a septic tank in brevard - it is the anaerobic type (some people call them 'turd grinders'). The county makes me pay $75/yr to the Dept of Health for having it, plus they require me to contract a septic company for maintenance - $150/yr. why aren't they using that money to clean up the old style tanks that are leaking?!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Who's still in favor of doing nothing and letting it fix itself? There won't be anything left to fix.


Lots of dead breeder size fish Pineda area.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10205434799818639.1073741991.1509430702&type=3


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Here you guys go. Thanks to those that helped. If you sent an email post a quick reply. If you haven't yet take 5 minutes and do your part.

*Must be contacted individually*
Governor Rick Scott - http://www.flgov.com/contact-gov-scott/email-the-governor/
Lt. Governor Lopez Cantera - http://www.flgov.com/email-the-lt-governor
Senator Bill Nelson - https://www.billnelson.senate.gov/contact-bill
Congressman Bill Posey - http://posey.house.gov/contact/
Congressman Ron Desantis - https://desantis.house.gov/contact/email-me

*Group email of local leaders*
Here is a quick list to cut & paste into your email address bar. It's still being updated so give me the rest of the day to get it complete.

[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]


Everything below is in the quick list.

Brevard County -
*District 1 Commissioner Robin Fisher *
Ph: (321) 264-6750
Fax: (321) 264-6751
[email protected]

*District 2 Commissioner Jim Barfield (Chair)*
Ph: (321) 454-6601
Fax: (321) 454-6602
[email protected]

*District 3 Commissioner Trudie Infantini*
Ph: (321) 952-6300
Fax: (321) 952-6340
[email protected]

*District 4 Commissioner Curt Smith (Vice Chair)*
Ph: (321) 633-2044
Fax: (321) 633-2121
[email protected]

*District 5 Commissioner Andy Anderson *
Ph: (321) 253-6611
Fax: (321) 253-6620
[email protected]

Titusville
Mayor - James H Tulley Jr
[email protected]

Titusville
Vice Mayor - Walt Johnson
[email protected]

Cape Canaveral
Mayor - Bob Hoog
[email protected]

Cocoa
Mayor - Henry Parrish III
[email protected]

Cocoa Beach
Mayor - Tumulty
[email protected]

Satellite Beach
Mayor Frank Catino
[email protected]
(321) 773-4407

Rockledge
James P. “Jim” McKnight
City Manager
[email protected]



*City Council:*
Martha Long [email protected]com
Rita Pritchett [email protected]com
*
City Manager:*
Scott Larese [email protected]

*State House of Representatives, District 50*
Tom Goodson (R) [email protected]

*State Senator, District 24*
Thad Altman (R) [email protected]

*State Senator, District 13*
Andy Gardiner (R) [email protected]

Wesley Davis: [email protected]

Joe Flescher: [email protected]

Tim Zorc: [email protected]

Peter O'Bryan: [email protected]

Bob Solari: [email protected]

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

*Mayor Kathy Meehan*
(321) 984-7588
[email protected]

*District One Council Member Mike Nowlin*
(321) 254-1886
[email protected]

*District Two Council Member Betty Moore*
(321) 205-3389
[email protected]

*Vice Mayor & District Three Council Member Dan Porsi*
(321) 499-2671
[email protected]

*District Four Council Member Debbie Thomas*
(321) 508-7171
[email protected]

*District Five Council Member Molly Tasker*
(321) 259-1719
[email protected]

*District Six Council Member Teresa Lopez*(347) 686-4172
[email protected]


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

el9surf said:


> I'm looking to put together a comprehensive list of people we can contact regarding the Indian River Lagoon.
> 
> I would like some help in compiling emails for government, state, county and city leaders that have a stake in the health of the Indian River Lagoon. Locally I'm aiming for every municipality along its shores from Volusia to Indian River County.
> 
> ...


I'm a member of a group called Gulf Restoration Network and they routinely make template emails for members to send to public officials. While the IRL is not technically a Gulf of Mexico issue, Florida is a gulf state and I'm sure they have a lot of the work already done (as far as sending template emails goes). They are a grassroots organization and are usually very responsive. Give them a shout and see if they can help you.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

el9surf said:


> I highly doubt they will open the lochs. One of the articles I posted a page or two back said last time they opened them in 2008 to relieve flooding resulted poorly. They left them open for a week after one of the hurricanes and ended up breaking a part and couldn't get them closed. They are not going to risk sandbar buildup in the port, there is too much money going in and out of canaveral every day.





el9surf said:


> Who's still in favor of doing nothing and letting it fix itself? There won't be anything left to fix.
> 
> 
> Lots of dead breeder size fish Pineda area.
> ...


Thats in my back yard


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

If you guys know the local leaders of your cities, counties post their names and I will update the first post with as much contact info as I can find. This might require a few minutes but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks for the info PT448, I contacted Gulf Restoration Network and sent an email to the lady that might be able to help.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

How long has it been since a hurricane hit the area?

That could be an issue as it seems here in Texas that after the initial damage the bays are healthier after a hurricane flushes out the bay systems and opens old passes to the Gulf.


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## snookdlb (Aug 28, 2010)

Cjrobin has a good point. Where is the CCA in all of this. I’m betting “Big Sugar” is a big contributor of theirs. Algae bloom in the north Indian river etc., etc. They ask for our support and Claim to be the Stewart of our eco system where are they?? No rallies, no protests no updates where are they???


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## J-Dad (Aug 30, 2015)

el9surf said:


> If you guys know the local leaders of your cities, counties post their names and I will update the first post with as much contact info as I can find. This might require a few minutes but any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks for the info PT448, I contacted Gulf Restoration Network and sent an email to the lady that might be able to help.


From the Local Official's page of the Titusville Chamber of Commerce Web site ... and I'd include Chamber of Commerces in the communication as often as possible - they absolutely have influence on local politics. I'll add their contact info once I can verify it.

*Mayor:*
James H. Tulley, Jr. [email protected]
*
City Council:* 
Vice Mayor: Walt Johnson [email protected]com
Martha Long [email protected]com 
Rita Pritchett [email protected]com
*
City Manager:*
Scott Larese [email protected] 

*Board of (Brevard) County Commissioners, District 1:*
Robin Fisher (D) [email protected] 

*State House of Representatives, District 50*
Tom Goodson (R) [email protected]

*State Senator, District 24*
Thad Altman (R) [email protected]

*State Senator, District 13* 
Andy Gardiner (R) [email protected]


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## Ties2Flys (Feb 11, 2016)

The fish kill should be sufficient. Since phone calls and emails don't work.


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## Ties2Flys (Feb 11, 2016)

Come on down tourists. All you need is a dip net. Great for the "economy"


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Yep come on down. We have brown beaches and rotten water ways. If you look close you might see some dead marine mammals.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

Dead fish and rotten water on C'hatchie through Sanibel area also. When tourism gets slashed, just watch our (choke) LEADERS get suddenly concerned and REactive. I truly pray for God to step in on all this mess!!!


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

*Indian River County Commissioners*

Wesley Davis: [email protected]

Joe Flescher: [email protected]

Tim Zorc: [email protected]

Peter O'Bryan: [email protected]

Bob Solari: [email protected]

These are the same idiots that refused to consider a summer fertilizer ban because it would be bad for landscaper's business.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Send an email, copy as many as you can on one email. They need to hear from us. I will consolidate this list tomorrow so it's all in one post, with an easy to copy list to paste into your email. Anyone willing to help list Volusia county and municipalies for me?

Even if you don't live here write a quick email for us. Aside from local fishing this affects local economies well beoyond what you think. Property values, vacations, your favorite boat builders.... the list is long but there will be ripple effects that we can't see coming.

We need to ask for multiple pumping stations at a minimum. They can get new water in, control the flow and help in the short term.

Please do your part, we need help!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

We also need to contact fwc and ask for harvest bans in IRL and Mosquito Lagoon. No need for additional stress on the estuary at the moment. It might not matter.... 

I don't think it's coincidence the kill came after the warmest temps we have had over the last week or two.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

el9surf said:


> We also need to contact fwc and ask for harvest bans in IRL and Mosquito Lagoon. No need for additional stress on the estuary at the moment. It might not matter....
> 
> I don't think it's coincidence the kill came after the warmest temps we have had over the last week or two.


It might be a thought to stop by the FAU Observatory to see if they are bothering anybody on this and if who might that be; I think they are in your area.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Blue Zone said:


> It might be a thought to stop by the FAU Observatory to see if they are bothering anybody on this and if who might that be; I think they are in your area.


Orlando?


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

el9surf said:


> Orlando?


I thought you were somewhere along the Lagoon.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

el9surf said:


> We also need to contact fwc and ask for harvest bans in IRL and Mosquito Lagoon. No need for additional stress on the estuary at the moment. It might not matter....
> 
> I don't think it's coincidence the kill came after the warmest temps we have had over the last week or two.


Going a little far when nobody really has a clue as to what is going on. Might be a normal cycle. May have been going on for centuries. Only thing I can say is fishing changed drastically after the 4 hurricanes. But the fish pattern has been slowly coming back.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Capnredfish said:


> Going a little far when nobody really has a clue as to what is going on. Might be a normal cycle. May have been going on for centuries. Only thing I can say is fishing changed drastically after the 4 hurricanes. But the fish pattern has been slowly coming back.


Have you seen whats going on? When you have an ecosystem in collapse why stress it further? What good will that do?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

The list has been updated for an easy cut and paste into your email. It is also pretty thorough. Please send a quick message. If you don't live here please send an email about how you like to visit, or how this is affecting vacation plans..... We need to get the message to them that this isn't going to be ignored any longer.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

If it is caused by runoff. I will go out on a limb and say Brevard county is the issue. Every inch on both sides has been plowed over, paved and built on. You will never get a correct answer from so called experts. Sad but true. After all they will need on going funding to keep their experiments going.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

It'll probably fall on deaf ears but I sent an email to the Governor.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=954655191295018&set=pcb.954655284628342&type=3&theater


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Looks like the other coast fisherman are going to have some company. The Feds will have to declare imminent domain and open(restore) flow south from the lake long term, along with other law regulating sewage treatment, fertilizer use, and development of sensitive coastal areas. Lots of people like to live on the water and slowly destroy the reason they buy property in a coastal environment. Why not live a reasonable distance away and think about the impact of your activities on the coastal environment?


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/n...-know----and-dont-know----fish-kill/82163574/


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

el9surf said:


> Swaddict
> If you, or anyone else has info about that old inlet please share. I have been on the phone with the FL department of environmental protection this afternoon and now have 2 different contacts of people that manage these areas. Any ideas we can provide them are better than nothing.


The earliest nautical charts I can find of the area show no indication of a "Mosquito Lagoon" inlet. These two are from 1883 and it's pretty clear there wasn't one at that time. I'll keep digging. Perhaps one was artificially dredged then later filled back in.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

The Laguna Madre in Texas is a lot like the IRL and Mosquito Lagoon. A 150 mile closed system with gulf openings on each end where some marine scientist calculate twelve years for complete water turnover given no tropical storms or hurricanes. Once you mess it up, it will take years to heal. We still have patches of brown tide in the Laguna that started in 1990. Just lucky it is a sea grass killer and not toxic to adult fish. I will not fish in the brown.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

el9surf said:


> Swaddict
> If you, or anyone else has info about that old inlet please share. I have been on the phone with the FL department of environmental protection this afternoon and now have 2 different contacts of people that manage these areas. Any ideas we can provide them are better than nothing.





HaMm3r said:


> The earliest nautical charts I can find of the area show no indication of a "Mosquito Lagoon" inlet. These two are from 1883 and it's pretty clear there wasn't one at that time. I'll keep digging. Perhaps one was artificially dredged then later filled back in.


Ok, here's a little more information and some confirmation on the Mosquito Lagoon Coast Guard Station. On a historical chart from 1932, I found the location where the station used to be. It looks to have existed about where Lot 5 is today. There's still nothing to indicate an inlet, however.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

HaMm3r said:


> Ok, here's a little more information and some confirmation on the Mosquito Lagoon Coast Guard Station. On a historical chart from 1932, I found the location where the station used to be. It looks to have existed about where Lot 5 is today. There's still nothing to indicate an inlet, however.


Ok, I think I've solved this whole Mosquito Lagoon Inlet mystery. At some point prior to 1900, Ponce Inlet was referred to as Mosquito Inlet on the nautical charts. I've seen it called that on several historical maps, so they must have changed the name. The below chart is from 1863. Since we now know there was no other inlet, we know where the CG station was and we know that Ponce Inlet was renamed, it all makes sense...doesn't it?


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks for the maps I enjoyed seeing them. Love seeing the history, hopefully we can learn from our current mess and maybe some attention to pollution control will change things for the better. I'm sure we all have seen this beautiful coast slowly decline in water quality over the last 30 years.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

I just received word from a professor at Florida Tech who says that the consensus around campus is that the fish kill we are currently seeing is due to low oxygen levels and not the algae bloom. He also said that both problems can be solved with a weir or pumping station at the south end of ML / north end of banana river

I think the short term solution has to include a pumping station, while the long term ones should include septic tank cleanup, reduction of lawn fertilizers, etc.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

HaMm3r said:


> The earliest nautical charts I can find of the area show no indication of a "Mosquito Lagoon" inlet. These two are from 1883 and it's pretty clear there wasn't one at that time. I'll keep digging. Perhaps one was artificially dredged then later filled back in.


When I talked to CCA they had a map apparently that had the Southern inlet marked. You may be correct though because they referred to it as Mosquito inlet.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

yobata said:


> I just received word from a professor at Florida Tech who says that the consensus around campus is that the fish kill we are currently seeing is due to low oxygen levels and not the algae bloom. He also said that both problems can be solved with a weir or pumping station at the south end of ML / north end of banana river
> 
> I think the short term solution has to include a pumping station, while the long term ones should include septic tank cleanup, reduction of lawn fertilizers, etc.


It is my understanding that algae blooms consume oxygen as part of their cycle. Certain types of algae that have rapid growth deplete oxygen quickly. Rising temperatures along with the excess of nutrients in the water often feed these rapid blooms leading to depletion . I might have mentioned this before but the fish kill just came off the back of 2 weeks of very warm weather. I hate to be the pessimist here but unless they do something I think this fish kill will continue to grow as it gets warmer over the coming months.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

el9surf said:


> It is my understanding that algae blooms consume oxygen as part of their cycle. Certain types of algae that have rapid growth deplete oxygen quickly. Rising temperatures along with the excess of nutrients in the water often feed these rapid blooms leading to depletion . I might have mentioned this before but the fish kill just came off the back of 2 weeks of very warm weather. I hate to be the pessimist here but unless they do something I think this fish kill will continue to grow as it gets warmer over the coming months.


I agree with you the low o2 levels are secondary to the bloom.


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## jamarcusray (Nov 20, 2014)

All,

I saw that an early version of this was posted already, but now there is an easy portal to email all of your representatives at almost every level of the state. Simply put in your zip code and your email. Thought it would be worth sharing again:

http://www.bonefishtarpontrust.org/general/take-action.html?vvsrc=/campaigns/45345/respond


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

el9surf said:


> When I talked to CCA they had a map apparently that had the Southern inlet marked. You may be correct though because they referred to it as Mosquito inlet.


Here is a survey of Mosquito Inlet done in 1851. It is clearly what we now call Ponce Inlet with Disappearing Island and even some of the tributaries have the same names, such as Spruce Creek, Hunters Creek and Calallisia Creek.


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## firefish (Jan 16, 2014)

I am under the belief that there are no " naturally occuring inlets along our central coast ! Ponce, Canaveral,Sebastian, All were cut out ! Correct ?


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## firefish (Jan 16, 2014)

Maybe HUNDREDS of yrs. ago,,,,, as the barrier islands were being formed ????


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## firefish (Jan 16, 2014)

sorry for the multiple posts,,, But, Isn't this problem extending all the way south of Patrick AFB? Maybe you know the answer to that Grove... If so ,That's getting close to the influence of Sebastian Inlet.And that's constantly flushing the river.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

As you get 5 - 10 miles away from Sebastian the current in the river falls off to 0. With no inlet to the north except for Ponce which is probably 100+ miles away much of that water sits stagnant only to be influenced by local winds. The lochs at canaveral prevent a tidal flow.
Although new inlets or pumping stations may come with side effects they surely will be better than watching everything die. It's going to take a long time for the Banana River to recover from this. Hopefully the fish kill stays within the Banana.


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## firefish (Jan 16, 2014)

yes !but its quite bad in Sykes creek,,,,,, not sure if they all blew in from south end where it meets the Banana , but its def. here. right at the barge canal all the way down to the Merritt Island airport, One of those posts showed video of Harbour Town. They're all connected!!!!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Everyone is invited to attend the 2nd Indian River Lagoon Workshop.


March 29th 9:99-12:00

Indian River County Commission Chambers

1801 27th Street

Vero Beach, Florida 32960


Online registration at www.ircgov.com then follow the link on the home page.


For those who cannot attend you may watch the program live and reply on our local government channel or streaming live at www.ircgov.com


There will be two speakers that will present potential solutions for the IRL. A ocean to lagoon pumping station that has been operational in Destin Harbor that has proved to dramatically improve water quality. Also we will have a presentation on a water scrubbing technology that again is a proved success story. These and more speakers will present recent and potential solutions to help improve the water quality in the IRL.



Indian River Lagoon Workshop

“Are we making any progress?”



Agenda

8:30-9:00 Registration


9:00-9:05 Welcome, Invocation, Pledge Tim Zorc


9:05-9:15 2016 Legislative update Representative Debbie Mayfield


9:15-9:40 Indian River Lagoon Council

Indian River Lagoon National Estuary Program

Dr. Duane De Freese, Ph.D.

Sebastian, Florida 


9:40-10:00 Fertilizer Enforcement / Storm Water Education

Alexis Peralta

Indian River County Public Works


10:00-10:25 Ground Water movement and Septic Tanks

Osprey South Relief Canal Algae Turf Scrubber

Vincent Burke PE

Indian River County Utilities Director



10:25-10:30 Break


10:30-10:50 Septic to Sewer and ways to get there.

Carter Taylor

Indian River Neighborhood Association

Vero Beach, Florida



10:50-11:15 Seagrass and Water Quality

Dr. Charles Jacoby Environmental Scientist

St Johns River Water Management District

Palatka, Florida


11:15-11:40 Nutrient remediation water technology. “Water Scrubbing”

Bill Eggers Scientist

AquaFiber®™ Winter Park, Florida


11:40-12:10 Bethel Creek, Indian River Lagoon & Destin Harbor, what do they have in common?

Destin Harbor Pump Station

David Bazylak City of Destin, Florida

Where do we go from here? and Q&A




Sincerely


*Tim Zorc *

Board of County Commissioners

District 3

1801 27th Street – Building A

Vero Beach, Florida 32960


[email protected]

772-226-1492


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Keep sending emails and making calls.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

The farthest north from Sebastian Inlet I've personally seen tide is maybe malabar grant area which is only 7-10 miles from the inlet. The banana river and central Indian river don't seem to have tides. They seem to be influenced by rain water and any flushing from the St. John's system canals. I'm normally on the water 1-3 times a week in the area from the Merritt island barge canal to the crane creek area. This area so far seems the hardest hit. So no flow seems to have been worst during the bloom.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

yobata said:


> I just received word from a professor at Florida Tech who says that the consensus around campus is that the fish kill we are currently seeing is due to low oxygen levels and not the algae bloom. He also said that both problems can be solved with a weir or pumping station at the south end of ML / north end of banana river
> 
> I think the short term solution has to include a pumping station, while the long term ones should include septic tank cleanup, reduction of lawn fertilizers, etc.


I knew a man named Larry Hebert that fell 90' onto a steel roof of a drilling rig, and then rolled off into the water at the Port of Houma, LA, and didn't come up. Divers came and pulled him out. The coroner reported the cause of death as drowning with no mention of the numerous broken bones and his fractured skull. Don't think they even looked. They don't report the "root cause", just the cause of death.

So yes, the oxygen levels did go down to zero for the better part of two days and killed all the fish. However the most significant factor in the reduction of oxygen was decaying algae that had bloomed and then died due to overcast conditions. In addition, the lack of wind, especially in Sykes Creek did not mechanically aerate the water.

Typically there aren't enough nutrients in the water for algae to bloom, but thats no longer the case with septic tank overflow and fertilizer runoff building up nutrient levels in the water.

https://www.facebook.com/zack.jud/posts/939268267075?fref=nf&pnref=story

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/n...-know----and-dont-know----fish-kill/82163574/

http://www.vtaide.com/png/carbonCycle.htm

Please follow Take Back Our Water on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/takebackourwater/?pnref=story

and please read the following before you spend any more time looking for a silver bullet

Take Back Our Water 

The Problems: 

Don't let anyone try to convince you there is one magic bullet that will fix the Indian River Lagoon. There's not. And don't let anyone tell you there is a quick-fix. There's not. And don't let anyone tell you its hopeless. Its not. And don't let anyone tell you there's just one problem, or one problem is more important than another. Its not that easy. But you can be certain that this is something we can fix as long as we make it a priority. 

The problems affecting the Indian River Lagoon are numerous, but at the core its about freshwater flows into the lagoon and whats in them. This is a short primer on the main factors to get you up to speed. Check out the Information Links and Blog for more detailed discussions.

Freshwater flows – changes to freshwater flows into coastal waters cause major negative changes in the ecology of these waters. For example, most organisms that live in water require a specific salinity (a measure of the salt content in water – freshwater salinity = 0, ocean salinity = 35, salinity in an estuary is typically somewhere in between, say 20) to survive. Lets take seagrass as an example. If the salinity is 0 for more than a couple of weeks, the seagrass will die. Same for oysters. Same for a lot of the small animals that live in seagrass beds and oyster bars – the stuff that gamefish eat.

So when mangrove creeks are filled in or diverted, and these many creeks are replaced by a few canals that dump large amounts of freshwater into the lagoon, the lagoon and everything that lives in it suffer. Nutrients – too many nutrients can kill an estuary like the Indian River Lagoon. Nutrients come from many sources, including fertilizers on lawns and agricultural fields that drain during rains, septic systems, and sewage treatment plants that fail or overflow. Together, these extra nutrients cause plankton (algae) blooms that shade the sunlight from seagrass, killing the seagrass, and overwhelming oysters and other organisms that are supposed to filter the water. Then when the plankton dies and sinks to the bottom, the process of decay consumes all of the oxygen in the water, causing fish kills. Herbicide and Pesticide residues – the leftovers, or breakdown products, of a lot of the herbicides and pesticides that are applied to urban, suburban, and agricultural lands are harmful to organisms that live in the Indian River Lagoon. Combined, the changes in salinity from changes in freshwater flows, the increase in nutrients, and the accumulation of pesticide and herbicide residues make it very difficult for the Indian River Lagoon to function properly. Fixing these problems is essential if the Indian River Lagoon is ever to be healthy again


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

MariettaMike - do you think a pumping station will help?

I know that it means we are kicking the can down the road so to speak, but I believe that anything that helps in the short term and can be disabled later (such as turning off and dismantling a pumping station) is a good idea. 

I get that this is a problem that requires a long them solution, but I do not see much progress happening. I know there are several dredging projects in th IRL that are suppose to get rid of decaying "muck" which prob includes dead algae and that some cities have signed pledges to curb septic leakages but I haven't seen any news or numbers on that progress and it sure seems as though it has not made a big difference in the short term so far...


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Good summary Mike. Warm rainy winters act as triggers for this exponential event.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

Thanks MMike,definitely not a ONE source problem, yet, with as BIG a problem this is, SILENCE in Tallahassee. PLEASE keep sending e-mails to both, elected & selected officials. WAY too important of a fight to slow down OR give up !!!!!!!!!!!


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

It's good that CNN has picked up on this as it brings up the negative economic impact:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/25/us/florida-fish-kill/index.html


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

yobata said:


> I just received word from a professor at Florida Tech who says that the consensus around campus is that the fish kill we are currently seeing is due to low oxygen levels and not the algae bloom. He also said that both problems can be solved with a weir or pumping station at the south end of ML / north end of banana river
> 
> I think the short term solution has to include a pumping station, while the long term ones should include septic tank cleanup, reduction of lawn fertilizers, etc.


This whole issue makes me so mad because we do this same stupid crap everywhere and sadly we don't learn until there are stinking dead fish everywhere. It's correct that this is a problem with multiple causes and thus there is no magic bullet to fix it but rather a muti pronged approach and comprehensive strategy is needed. Louisiana has plenty of coastal problems, but this is very different. The article below which is the study that yobsta mentions is a good start, fix lack of water flushing first then work on the point sources that are the root cause of the more frequent algae blooms and Do crashes. Dammit...just do something it's not that hard to put in a culvert to flush the lagoon, it's done all over the world. If a hurricane came through and opened it up it would be the same effect, a little dilution is not a bad thing but it's only part of the fix. I'm a marine geologist/hydro geologist by education and cleaned up many polluted areas in Louisiana and the gulf coast early in my career and studied coastal geology in school where I looked at similar situations regarding coastal pollution, erosion, etc. It will take decades to correct just like it took decades to screw up, but our biggest problem is it takes us decades to act!!! I just hope we fix this so our kids don't suffer from our absolute neglect and poor stewardship.
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/n...on/32132331/?from=global&sessionKey&autologin


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

Here's another good article on the basic facts of the matter, what is especially vital are the mentions of habitat destruction and wetland loss around the lagoon. 

I heard about the rally they had Saturday in cocoa but it was too small. It would be nice to see some microskiff guys get with guides, skiff companies and other stakeholders to put something on in the lagoon to raise awareness for those people who don't go out there or understand the urgency of the issue! If people are talking about selling their skiffs, these companies should be pretty interested. Imagine 1000 skiffs all along the lagoon system to protest what's going on and the coverage it would get!!! Sorry about the rant, I'm really irritated now because all the places I love to fish are jacked up...

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/n...evard-county-reaches--tipping-point/26306273/


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

jboriol said:


> This whole issue makes me so mad because we do this same stupid crap everywhere and sadly we don't learn until there are stinking dead fish everywhere. It's correct that this is a problem with multiple causes and thus there is no magic bullet to fix it but rather a muti pronged approach and comprehensive strategy is needed. Louisiana has plenty of coastal problems, but this is very different. The article below which is the study that yobsta mentions is a good start, fix lack of water flushing first then work on the point sources that are the root cause of the more frequent algae blooms and Do crashes. Dammit...just do something it's not that hard to put in a culvert to flush the lagoon, it's done all over the world. If a hurricane came through and opened it up it would be the same effect, a little dilution is not a bad thing but it's only part of the fix. I'm a marine geologist/hydro geologist by education and cleaned up many polluted areas in Louisiana and the gulf coast early in my career and studied coastal geology in school where I looked at similar situations regarding coastal pollution, erosion, etc. It will take decades to correct just like it took decades to screw up, but our biggest problem is it takes us decades to act!!! I just hope we fix this so our kids don't suffer from our absolute neglect and poor stewardship.
> http://www.floridatoday.com/story/n...on/32132331/?from=global&sessionKey&autologin


Preaching to the choir brother. I posted this story on page 5 of this thread. Seems like common sense and it's infuriating that nothing is being done. Seems like the experts would rather argue and watch everything die before they commit to doing anything.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

HaMm3r said:


> Ok, I think I've solved this whole Mosquito Lagoon Inlet mystery. At some point prior to 1900, Ponce Inlet was referred to as Mosquito Inlet on the nautical charts. I've seen it called that on several historical maps, so they must have changed the name. The below chart is from 1863. Since we now know there was no other inlet, we know where the CG station was and we know that Ponce Inlet was renamed, it all makes sense...doesn't it?


Yes you may be right i researched it all day yesterday and every map i saw had what is now referred to as "Ponce Inlet" labeled "Mosquito Inlet" I looked a little deeper and tried to reference old photos or any resemblance of an inlet associated with the "House of refuge" that used to be the old coast guard station at boat ramp #5 but no luck! I could have sworn that before my grandmother passed away she used to talk about how she was a part of the watch group that would patrol the beaches and report any U-boat sightings and spoke of the inlet down there. I know this discussion isn't solely formed for this ghost inlet but I will research more into it at our city museum. I've dealt with them in the past about fire department history and might be able to find something to confirm or deny.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

With all of this rain we have had over the past few days and the low 90 degree temps forecasted at the end of the week I wonder how that will impact the algae bloom. We have easily had 5 inches of rain since last Thursday.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

If weather permits i am making a run tomorrow from NSB south if i make it out i will let you guys know!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

If you have a house or live on the water you are part of the problem. We seem to be able to destroy the environment we love by thoughtless development of coastal land. Take a close look at yourself and your personal responsibility. Back off a few miles if you have to live close to estuaries.


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## Flats Tanley (Aug 30, 2015)

ADicus said:


> Yes you may be right i researched it all day yesterday and every map i saw had what is now referred to as "Ponce Inlet" labeled "Mosquito Inlet" I looked a little deeper and tried to reference old photos or any resemblance of an inlet associated with the "House of refuge" that used to be the old coast guard station at boat ramp #5 but no luck! I could have sworn that before my grandmother passed away she used to talk about how she was a part of the watch group that would patrol the beaches and report any U-boat sightings and spoke of the inlet down there. I know this discussion isn't solely formed for this ghost inlet but I will research more into it at our city museum. I've dealt with them in the past about fire department history and might be able to find something to confirm or deny.



Eddy Creek used to be an inlet at one time but this is long before Europeans arrived according to the NPS Biologists.

http://www.nbbd.com/OutThere/eddycreek/index.html


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Flats Tanley said:


> Eddy Creek used to be an inlet at one time but this is long before Europeans arrived according to the NPS Biologists.
> 
> http://www.nbbd.com/OutThere/eddycreek/index.html


That would explain whale tail.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

el9surf said:


> Everyone is invited to attend the 2nd Indian River Lagoon Workshop.
> 
> 
> March 29th 9:99-12:00
> ...


Has anyone been able to connect to this Indian River Lagoon Workshop video stream? Been trying since 9am on multiple devices and nothing.


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

I am sure everyone has seen but the government met today and it does not sound like they accomplished much.

http://www.wesh.com/news/brevard-leaders-tackle-fish-kill-in-indian-river-lagoon/38747746


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

Made it out today water quality is not much better than it has been in the past! Traveled from canaveral nat'l seashore ramp to tiger shoals water clarity on east side of shoals in less than 1' is "0" everywhere else is still very murky with little to no flow besides help from wind. Water didn't really start to clear up until north of cedar creek and thats not saying much!!


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

Ok once again I am not making this thread all about this ghost inlet but from what I was told about the inlet that was located at old ramp #5 is that it was not an inlet but more of a cut through the rum runners used back in the prohibition days and was near the House of Refuge which was closed prior to the existence of the cut through. So with that being said it would be very hard to find or locate any info on a map or historical data to prove it existed. Let alone use that information to show that it had a positive impact on the water flow. I just wanted to clear that up I know there is no evidence on any maps and this is possibly the reason why.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/o...t-reed-stick-game-plan-indian-river/82446708/


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

yobata said:


> http://www.floridatoday.com/story/o...t-reed-stick-game-plan-indian-river/82446708/


Thanks for the link. I've been waiting to hear a scientists perspective on what's going on. Scary to hear that he is prepping us for what looks to be a devastating summer season.

He claims the water in Indian River County looks "pretty good". I was out last evening and vis was 2"-4" at best and fish were in none of the usual spots. Sounds like tough weeks/months/years ahead of us.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Yes, tough times ahead for sure - Duane DeFreese was on the Matt Reed show yesterday (on our local PBS) talking about the issue. I did enjoy the point he made about Prop 1: the FL legislature is not doing its job because they are not funding the prop 1 mandate that the citizens passed. We need to vote all of these lazy bums out of office ASAP if they are not doing the work that the FL citizens are demanding...

I still feel that a pumping station would made a big difference (SHORT TERM) - forget widening sebastian inlet (not a significant impact) and forget opening port canaveral locks (their financial interests will never yield to our environmental concerns).


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

yobata said:


> Yes, tough times ahead for sure - Duane DeFreese was on the Matt Reed show yesterday (on our local PBS) talking about the issue. I did enjoy the point he made about Prop 1: the FL legislature is not doing its job because they are not funding the prop 1 mandate that the citizens passed. We need to vote all of these lazy bums out of office ASAP if they are not doing the work that the FL citizens are demanding...
> 
> I still feel that a pumping station would made a big difference (SHORT TERM) - forget widening sebastian inlet (not a significant impact) and forget opening port canaveral locks (their financial interests will never yield to our environmental concerns).


I agree 100%. They should at the very least attempt a pump station to see if it helps in the short term while they address the bigger issues. I would rather see them try and fail than watch a 100% fish kill in Mosquito Lagoon and the IRL without any temporary intervention. I personally don't think they have a lot to lose at this point by making that effort.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

COMMON sense is NOT a common thing in government. Oxygenated water, however we accomplish it is worth a try for our PRECIOUS East coast estuaries. BUT FIRST, those in charge will have to vote for studies of existing studies,grant $$$$ for those studies,form committees to discuss the studies,committees to grill those who performed said studies, form a committee to decide whether it is worth pursuing ,grabbing any "BIG money $$$$" , THEN voting. AND, if that fails,start all over again !!!! BUT, we MUST continue our fight to get things right. I'm praying for a miracle !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

With all the rain we are having I'm sure the nutrient flow is only continuing to feed the bloom.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

el9surf said:


> With all the rain we are having I'm sure the nutrient flow is only continuing to feed the bloom.


I was out over the last 2 weeks, and the water is jacked up from the North Indian river to about the grant area in the Indian river near Sebastian. The banana river is the worst I've ever seen her, I can't believe the commission didn't vote to declare a state of emergency. Apparently the tourists won't notice, and we would want to bother the governor to make a decision. All the lawns in my area were sprayed this week (except mine) and then it rained a lot so it should make the river nice and green this week. I emailed all the government officials and no one even replied back with a concern. Frustrating, also praying for a miracle. I'm for a pump station or small inlet, we need moving water in the lagoon/banana river quickly.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

It completely blows my mind that Brevard County didn't ask for a state of emergency. Deceiving tourist instead of asking for help to a problem that is almost certainly going to get worse has to be the most short sighted and neglectful course of action they could have taken. If they think they are going to have an economic impact just wait. It's going to be exponentially worse.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

In Brevard, a lot of things are being done to please Viera. The county officials would rather not admit that the destruction of the marsh lands west of 95 is a continuation of the problem - they would rather just get more wealthy off of the new (and expensive) homes being constructed there. Very short scopes...


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

BTT has put together a web tool that determines your local politicians based on your zip code, and copies all relevant state and federal representatives, senators, and Governor Scott. Easy to use, takes like 2 minutes to fill out and send. 

http://www.bonefishtarpontrust.org/general/take-action.html?vvsrc=/campaigns/45345/respond


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

Just used it myself and sent the following:

To say that I am extremely upset, dismayed, and heartbroken by the current state of our waters...would be a massive understatement. I feel that the actions/inactions of the FL legislature and Governor Scott are willfully and maliciously misrepresenting the will of the people.

Amendment One passed with 75% of the vote. +/-$750m were raised its first year and +/-$850m its second year. Those funds were subsequently gutted by the legislature and misappropriated to administrative uses that should have come out of the state's general fund. Florida Forever, our land buying program, has been virtually ignored.

This year's budget was an improvement, but dramatic improvements need to continue to be made. We need to buy the land south of Lake O and we need to fix our broken plumbing. We need to re-empower the Department of Environmental Protection (their enforcement is down 85% during the current administration???!!), and they need to start enforcing pollution laws again.

Most of all, WE NEED TO START PUTTING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE AHEAD OF THE WILL OF SPECIAL INTERESTS.

Thank you for your consideration, I sincerely hope that our waters are not past the tipping point of recovery, and I sincerely hope the current administration chooses to take a 180 degree change of course from it's water positions and policies to date. The blood is on your hands, and the voters are starting to pay attention.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

My Dear Moderators,

Over the past few months you have relegated (perhaps condemned is a better word) timely, pertinent and important topics to the Off Topic section; today you have made another editorial “cleansing” (by the way you missed some). These topics relate to the several crises that directly relate to what MS is all about; the IRL, Lake Okeechobee, the Caloosahatchee, St. Lucie, Kissimmee, St. Johns rivers, the Everglades and Florida Bay. That covers a large geographical swath of your membership.

A couple of nights ago I looked around at other sites to assess the level of conversation on these topics. I found very little; it seemed folks are more concerned about the length of the snapper season than the long-term damage facing the Florida fishery. What these people aren’t getting is that there could come a time that there will be no snapper season because there will not be any snapper. Florida will be covered with non-indigenous, invasive fish, reptiles and plants that are able to survive the devastation.

*Previously I have asked that a special Conservation topic be established; this has not happened*. To move these threads down to Off Topic “a fun place to share” is pretty much an insult. There is nothing funny about any of this. Aside from that, a lot of MS watermen have spent a whole lot of time and effort in trying to transform a few voices into a chorus of concern; In that regard, your approach leaves one to wonder exactly what the position of MS on these issues may be; at least from my standpoint, the perception is not good.

Blue


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Didn't the governor already declare a stat of emergency on this? I swear I heard that on the radio.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

devrep said:


> Didn't the governor already declare a stat of emergency on this? I swear I heard that on the radio.


I believe he did in certain counties based on the Lake Okechobee discharge. Brevard is not one of those counties.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Blue Zone said:


> My Dear Moderators,
> 
> Over the past few months you have relegated (perhaps condemned is a better word) timely, pertinent and important topics to the Off Topic section; today you have made another editorial “cleansing” (by the way you missed some). These topics relate to the several crises that directly relate to what MS is all about; the IRL, Lake Okeechobee, the Caloosahatchee, St. Lucie, Kissimmee, St. Johns rivers, the Everglades and Florida Bay. That covers a large geographical swath of your membership.
> 
> ...


Blue, I couldn't agree with you more. I put this on the General Discussion page because it's the page that relates to everyone visiting microskiff. I intentionally put it there and asked that it remain there to receive maximum exposure. Burying it here in "off topic" which I didn't realize existed till today is very frustrating to see. 

While this topic might not directly relate to the function of a specific boat this body of water is the reason many of us own a microskiff. You are not doing us any favors by sending this thread to die in a dark corner. It belongs in an area where we can have the most contribution and visibility possible.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

el9surf said:


> Blue, I couldn't agree with you more. I put this on the General Discussion page because it's the page that relates to everyone visiting microskiff. I intentionally put it there and asked that it remain there to receive maximum exposure. Burying it here in "off topic" which I didn't realize existed till today is very frustrating to see.
> 
> While this topic might not directly relate to the function of a specific boat this body of water is the reason many of us own a microskiff. You are not doing us any favors by sending this thread to die in a dark corner. It belongs in an area where we can have the most contribution and visibility possible.


*Hard to believe that the Moderators in all their infinite wisdom consider an environmental disaster unfolding on our fishery to be considered "Off Topic". 

Ain't gonna be too much to post about when the fish are dead and micro skiffs are used to plant vegetables on front lawns. I guess sunglasses and Fishing Shirts are more important.

BTW: General Discussion posts: 100,961 Off Topic Posts: 12,156*


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Guess I'll bump this up since it hasn't been sent to die in "off topic" yet.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Blue Zone said:


> My Dear Moderators,
> 
> Over the past few months you have relegated (perhaps condemned is a better word) timely, pertinent and important topics to the Off Topic section; today you have made another editorial “cleansing” (by the way you missed some). These topics relate to the several crises that directly relate to what MS is all about; the IRL, Lake Okeechobee, the Caloosahatchee, St. Lucie, Kissimmee, St. Johns rivers, the Everglades and Florida Bay. That covers a large geographical swath of your membership.
> 
> ...


x2!!!


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

el9surf said:


> Guess I'll bump this up since it hasn't been sent to die in "off topic" yet.


im working on a solution for these enviro issue topics.
if its a popular subject it wont die!
everybody calm down.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

el9surf said:


> Guess I'll bump this up since it hasn't been sent to die in "off topic" yet.


Actually, last night I hit the report button on this thread telling them they forgot to banish this to Off Topic to see if we could get a rise out of the mods...


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

In fairness I just discovered the off topic section yesterday. Had no idea it existed, probably scrolled past it for years without clicking on it.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Search Facebook for "Save our Lagoon", Like, & Share


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

It is apparent that concern for the several crises facing Florida’s waters is being totally ignored by a majority of elected officials. A good example is the massive IRL fish kill and the Brevard County Commission’s arrogant refusal to even second a motion to declare a state of emergency.

It is obvious that emails, postings on social media, lobbying, reports in the press and reports on TV are simply not getting the job done. Short of civil disobedience, the list of options is running short. I suggest organizing a political action committee to oppose politicians who are ignoring the issues and/or support politicians who will fight to reverse the plight facing our waters.

The concept of a PAC may sound a bit dramatic and improbable, but perhaps not. It could be tried on a small scale in Brevard focusing on the upcoming County Commission elections. It is my understanding that Commissioner seats for Districts 1,3 and 5 are up for election this year and there are four or five candidates who have declared for each district. It should not be difficult to find the right candidate in each district who will pledge to support positive and substantive plans to clean up the IRL with both passion and conviction. There has to be a significant number of frustrated Brevard citizens and businesses who are concerned about both responsible governance and the lack of action.

I had a look at some of the contribution numbers that some of these candidates have pulled in to date; it’s not huge money. I am not suggesting to provide direct contributions to the “friendlies”, but to support them through PAC-paid local advertising, which again is not huge money as Brevard is a relatively inexpensive media market.

The concept of forming a PAC may indeed be an exercise of pissing into the wind. On the other hand it could grow into a formidable vehicle to promote action on all water-related fronts and to go on the offensive against these asshats sitting on their hands.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

See my new post in the Off Topic on this subject.
http://www.microskiff.com/threads/water-quality-headed-downhill-need-for-a-poling-skiff.37499/page-9


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

How would you go about promoting it? 
I think a website behind the PAC along with social media showing support, and updates might be an attractive bit of leverage for those proposed candidates for each district up for election. Aside from that the friendly candidates could have a new platform and voting base they would have otherwise not had.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

Just imagine the "PORKERS" getting beat at their own game. Blue Zone you may have opened a fresh can of Whoop Azz. Although, I live on Left Coast, I fish & vacation in the affected areas. Count me in to help.
Find a candidate who will not only listen but, verbalize,debate, advertise their ideas on putting pressure on people/entities who can get the 75% will of the people enacted.It's a start. When the tourist $$$ disappear, One of two things happen, one takes no effort; the other, we ALL fight for what is RIGHT & JUST. Until disaster happens at the property line of BIG $$$$, THEY won't do a thing ! LET''S FIGHT !!! We MUST NOT let OUR Florida turn into FLINT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

el9surf said:


> How would you go about promoting it?
> I think a website behind the PAC along with social media showing support, and updates might be an attractive bit of leverage for those proposed candidates for each district up for election. Aside from that the friendly candidates could have a new platform and voting base they would have otherwise not had.


Frankly, I don’t know much about this stuff, but here are a couple of ideas I would think might be needed to make it work:
1. A managing director to run the show statewide who would need to be a credible, articulate spokesperson as well as being emotionally connected to the issues.
2. Regional board members who would oversee activities in their areas as wellas take part in the candidate vetting process statewide, hopefully on a volunteer basis.
3. An attorney and accountant hopefully on a pro bono basis.

The next step would be fund-raising:
· As you mentioned, social media could play an important role. Rather than just liking and sharing, social media types can play an active role in contributing to the PAC and getting the word out.
· Brevard county has become the epicenter of boat building in Florida. Surely these guys along with the tourism industry have a vested interest and should be an important source of funding.
· The student population should not be overlooked as a funding source. Most of these kids have a concern for the environment, but are too young to vote and unable to have their voices heard; a couple of bucks here and there can add up. Plus they make good foot soldiers for canvassing the public and handing out leaflets or whatever.
· The general public.
· iGFA, CCA, Audubon, Sierra Club and like organizations. These entities have to be spending huge sums on lobbyists whose results are difficult to quantify.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Hey now! Back to the top as a sticky! ty mods


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)




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## westsidefly (Aug 15, 2014)




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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Anyone been in the lagoon or IRL lately?


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

el9surf said:


> Anyone been in the lagoon or IRL lately?


Have not been out lately (wind + moving to a new home), but I did see this in the paper and it made me smile. It is causing quite a stir. Vote these f***ers out now!!! I especially hate trudi infantini.

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/o...ows-failures-brevard-county-florida/83360320/


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Will this 3 day cold streak help the clarity in the IRL/Mosquito Lagoon? Anyone been out this week and braved the winds?


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Join Captains For Clean Water.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)




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