# IJ14 Carolina skiff Haul problems



## Guest

The foam is saturated like a big sponge.


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## Jeepdane89

It just does not seem like that much water though, not 300 to 400 pounds worth.
Is it possible that they have the weight wrong and these skiffs are a lot heavier?
Let me know what yal think? what should I do?


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## yobata

take out all that wet foam


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## LowHydrogen

Boatbrains said:


> The foam is saturated like a big sponge.





yobata said:


> take out all that wet foam


That^ and That^

There's nothing else there to create weight. Just glass and it doesn't soak up water. At about 8-1/2 lbs per gal it doesn't take long to add up. There's no where else to hide weight in that hull.

Boat should jup right up with that ol 28 special


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## LowHydrogen

Water is 60+lbs per cubic ft, so that's 60+ lbs for every 4 square ft of soaked 3" foam. Adds up really quick. Quicker than you'd think.


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## Jeepdane89

LowHydrogen said:


> Water is 60+lbs per cubic ft, so that's 60+ lbs for every 4 square ft of soaked 3" foam. Adds up really quick. Quicker than you'd think.


Would yal replace the foam, I think I would really like to leave it out?


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## Jeepdane89

If any body has done this before and could offer me any wisdom I am all ears lol,
I was gonna replace the floor after I pulled it out, put its real thin, and would not support anything without the foam underneath. So if I tear out all the foam and do not replace it I am looking at getting creative here lol. Also the foam really isnot all soaked, just at the very bottom in most of the cells


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## DuckNut

Take your circular saw and cut all the way around the perimeter, remove the sole and remove all of the foam. Clean up the hull and coat it with epoxy.

Then replace the foam and rebuild the floor. Slobber some paint on it and go fishing.

That foam is integral to the structure of the hull so you have to put something back in to support the hull. It is acting like a composite - glass/foam/glass.


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## yobata

I know the temptation is to just leave the foam and hope that it "isn't that much," but I fear that is wishful thinking. 

For a proper repair, cut the floor out (leaving a 3" lip), remove all foam, check the integrity of the stringer system and repair if needed, and build a new deck/sole. 

The real question is do you want new floatation foam back in, and that is up for debate. I would use epoxy resins and pour the foam back in, cut off level, coat with neat epoxy, and seal with the new deck/sole. But others may say to leave the foam out and leave weep/drain holes that you can pull the plug on and drain...

Its going to be a more than weekend job to fix it properly...


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## Guest

LowHydrogen said:


> That^ and That^
> 
> There's nothing else there to create weight. Just glass and it doesn't soak up water. At about 8-1/2 lbs per gal it doesn't take long to add up. There's no where else to hide weight in that hull.
> 
> Boat should jup right up with that ol 28 special


Yep, with that flat bottom it’d be real easy to gut all that out and re- core the whole thing with 2” carbon core pe. It is 5lb density foam and will not absorb water. Set the hull on a flat structure so the bottom is all properly supported and after old foam is out and hull ground down, putty the hull and set the pre cut core in to putty. With weight. Drill relief holes in the core so the excess putty has somewhere to go. After cured, glass over and done!


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## Jeepdane89

Thank you for all the replies! So what is this Carbon Core pe. never herd of it, and it is water proof? so was the original foam right?.. I am not looking to do this a again in a few years lol.


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## LowHydrogen

Jeepdane89 said:


> Would yal replace the foam, I think I would really like to leave it out?


I'm not a glass or composite guy, @Boatbrains or others will chime in.


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## Jeepdane89

If I do put new foam back in, which seems like the sensable thing to do for integrety purposes, 
I would want to instal some sore of drain tile, and an exit hole/ plug so that I don't get standing water in the haul, any one ever done this?


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## Jeepdane89

yobata said:


> I know the temptation is to just leave the foam and hope that it "isn't that much," but I fear that is wishful thinking.
> 
> For a proper repair, cut the floor out (leaving a 3" lip), remove all foam, check the integrity of the stringer system and repair if needed, and build a new deck/sole.
> 
> The real question is do you want new floatation foam back in, and that is up for debate. I would use epoxy resins and pour the foam back in, cut off level, coat with neat epoxy, and seal with the new deck/sole. But others may say to leave the foam out and leave weep/drain holes that you can pull the plug on and drain...
> 
> Its going to be a more than weekend job to fix it properly...


I thought about that lol, but I am not a half bass kinda guy and I would like to do it right and be done with it. I feel like this little rig should haul butt with that 28 on there and it gets on a plan, but not without tryin to cough and stall out first. Plus for the skinny water it seems like its draggin too low. Idealy it would be cool to seal it all up like a giant srff board lol good design


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## Guest

Carbon core pe is a structural foam as is their pvc foam. It WILL NOT absorb water. If done properly, it will be the last time it ever needs done. The reason I reccomended carbon core is price. Their pvc foam is same basic foam as divinycel h80. I use Carbon core pretty much exclusively now and have for a few years.


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## fishnpreacher

I installed a couple of these on the back of my CS. I drilled the transom, and used an electricians bit and extension to go a couple of feet into the foam. The foam on the right was dry, the left side was barely damp. I left the holes open with the bow up in the air as high as I could get it, and got only a few drops of water from one side. I installed the drains with 3M 5200 sealant. No problems so far.


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## Jeepdane89

Boatbrains said:


> Carbon core pe is a structural foam as is their pvc foam. It WILL NOT absorb water. If done properly, it will be the last time it ever needs done. The reason I reccomended carbon core is price. Their pvc foam is same basic foam as divinycel h80. I use Carbon core pretty much exclusively now and have for a few years.


I called Carbon Cor in Va today and spoke with Tommy the owner I think. He told me that he did not think that the stuff he had would work for what I needed. When you do your floors do you cut the boards into bars that will fit between the orignal ribs? do you pull the ribs out?


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## Guest

On that boat, I would cut it all out and grind back to the hull skin. I would then drill a bunch of holes in a sheet of the 2” core and bond to the hull skin. The hull must must must be properly supported! Then glass over the foam after filleting around the edges. If 2” isn’t high enough, use 1.5 oz csm for the glass over the first piece and put a second piece right on top of it and weigh it down with cinder blocks “15 or so” and after it all kicks, fillet and glass in. The double stack will get you about the same flotation as original but won’t absorb water like the polyurethane foam did.


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## Copahee Hound

water intrusion is a common problem with CS’s. I dont know what the root cause of it is on most, but my old one didn’t have any sealant on quite a few screws that were inserted into the floor from the factory.

What @fishnpreacher recommends is what a lot of people do without problems. Had you not already cut the floor out, that would be the route I would go. I got rid of mine instead.

Fast forward a few years, and I knowingly bought a project. I took out well over 100 pounds of saturated foam. I’m not an expert by any means, just a cheapskate DIY guy. The guys on here can/will help you through your rebuild. YouTube is also your friend if you haven’t done any fiberglass work also. Here’s a link to my project...The pictures look very similar

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/waterlogged-capless-gladesmen-restoration.70430/


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## Guest

Copahee Hound said:


> water intrusion is a common problem with CS’s. I dont know what the root cause of it is on most, but my old one didn’t have any sealant on quite a few screws that were inserted into the floor from the factory.
> 
> What @fishnpreacher recommends is what a lot of people do without problems. Had you not already cut the floor out, that would be the route I would go. I got rid of mine instead.
> 
> Fast forward a few years, and I knowingly bought a project. I took out well over 100 pounds of saturated foam. I’m not an expert by any means, just a cheapskate DIY guy. The guys on here can/will help you through your rebuild. YouTube is also your friend if you haven’t done any fiberglass work also. Here’s a link to my project...The pictures look very similar


And I know a guy with a channel that’s trying to break this stuff down to it’s simplest form for ya’ll in a real world working environment for the average diy guy. ​


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## Jeepdane89

Boatbrains said:


> On that boat, I would cut it all out and grind back to the hull skin. I would then drill a bunch of holes in a sheet of the 2” core and bond to the hull skin. The hull must must must be properly supported! Then glass over the foam after filleting around the edges. If 2” isn’t high enough, use 1.5 oz csm for the glass over the first piece and put a second piece right on top of it and weigh it down with cinder blocks “15 or so” and after it all kicks, fillet and glass in. The double stack will get you about the same flotation as original but won’t absorb water like the polyurethane foam did.


So in other words, the foam tuff you mention would take place of the ribs? I like that idea, it sounds pretty straight forward


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## Guest

Jeepdane89 said:


> So in other words, the foam tuff you mention would take place of the ribs? I like that idea, it sounds pretty straight forward


Pretty much! The key is... and I will say again, make sure that hull is supported properly! Make sure you grind a good bite into the hull skin, mix your putty a little loose so it flows, properly fillet and glass the topside!


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## GG34

I think you can buy that bare HULL brand new for $1500. Not sure if it's worth a rebuild. I had one once.


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## Copahee Hound

GG34 said:


> I think you can buy that bare HULL brand new for $1500. Not sure if it's worth a rebuild. I had one once.


I don’t believe you can anymore. I’m pretty sure they have revamped their entire fleet


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## GG34

Copahee Hound said:


> I don’t believe you can anymore. I’m pretty sure they have revamped their entire fleet


Fair enough. I haven't looked in a long time.


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## GaG8tor

Yeah, a basic CS will run ya about 20k new nowadays


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## Jeepdane89

Yeah lol those days are gone, I have spent plenty of time on the phone with CS in Waycross Ga. 
and they discontinued all of there J series boats, they basically no longer make a small skiff, I dont think they make anything under 19 ft or something crazy like that. I have checked all the local dealers too and nobody can get there hands on a new old stock haul, whatever is out there is all we got. I thought about passin the buck and reselling it, believe me, but in the words of our great President Truman "the buck stops here" which he actually had a sign on his desk that said that. No sir, I decided to save this one I always wanted one and now I got it, just gotta make it great again. Plus I recon every other CS out there used prally has the same issues as mine, weather or not the owner knows it or not. Thank you all for the support and posts, this has been a wealth of info, that is hard to find anywhere else.


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## State fish rob

Lots of guys up here think condensation is the culprit on the Carolina skiffs. Add some ventilation as well


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## fishnpreacher

I pull the plugs on mine whenever its going to be sitting for a while, I elevate the tongue, and let it sit. I've not seen any more water drip since the first time when I installed the garboard drains, so I guess my foam/hull cavity is dry.


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## Guest

Just put it back together the way I described and you’ll not have another problem.


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## K3anderson

I would also check the transom. If there's water in the foam, the transom can hold a whole bunch too. You can just drill into it and see if anything pisses out or if its mush that comes out. If the transom is wet it can really add a lot of weight on that hull. I had a J-14 that did.


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## K3anderson

It's similar to this video


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## GaG8tor

Nothing wrong with the way they were built. IMO I believe most issues with boats built like the old J’s and other similar boats come from people just screwing stuff on with self-tapping screws and not sealing properly. I’d almost be willing to bet the farm that if you can pinpoint the source of saturation or rot there is or was a self-tapping screw within two or three inches.


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## fishnpreacher

The J-series and especially kit boats are notorious for this. The floor of mine was littered with screw holes that had been filled with caulk, silicone, epoxy, or some other filler. There were screws holding the console and cable chase that were loose, so obviously no sealant was used on them. I took out all screws, replaced most and sealed everything I could with 5200. I keep mine under a shelter but not garaged, and when I wash down, Its always nosed up as high as I can get it, to get the water out as quick as possible. 
JeepDane89, follow Boatbrain's advise. Cut out and replace all the foam you can get to. Replace the floor and glass everything in, and enjoy your ride.You should be good for years to come. And keep us updated, I'm interested to see your progress.
Blessings!


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## GaG8tor

Same here. This is a great place for information. Would love to see your progress. I love those boats. I’d like to have about a 20 something footer and make a crab boat out of it.


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## Jeepdane89

Well here is all I got done today, not much progress, but I got a little bit more foam out. I was initially trying to save the stringers, but they is like about worthless I think. Seems like wishfull thinking that they would even offer any rigiddity. The foam is interesting though because some of it is pretty dry and some pieces are more soaked, but even though most of the foam is only soaked around the edges of the bricks it still adds a considerable amount of weight. pluss the fiberglass floor has water setting in it, more near the transom than the front. I would have to say it is about an inch deep at its deepest and tapers down to just a wet floor by the front stringer, right around where the bow turns up 25 degrees or so. And yeay yal are right, infact when I bought this rig the first thing I noticed was that the PO drilled holes and ran a screw or bolt through the haul wherever posible. I mean everything was bolted to the floor, even the stick steering cable, WTF over lol. Some of the holes did not even hve any sealent, including one hole coming in from underneath the front of the bow to secure a pulley. I think that after I finish the haul I will not be drilling any holes into it, instead I'll use some type of adhesive, maybe liquid nails, to hold things down. I think the stringers have to go. I like the idea of laying some 2 inch foam down with glass einforced top and bottoms.


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## Jeepdane89

I am now just doing some preliminary research into what foam product to use. I see this stuff aint too cheap either lol. What about using pink panther 3 inch foam board, cutting it into logs with a skill saw, and wrapping it in chopped glass cloth and resin before laying them back in the floor, to simulate what the boat hadd stock. Pink panther foam seams pretty rigid, and it is a hell of a lot cheaper than coosa and carbon core stuff. Let me know what yal think, or if that is a bad idea. Thanks again for all the help. This is actually becoming a sortta fun project!


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## Jeepdane89

I did drill a hole in the transom before rippin the floor up and tried to drain it thataway first, I got maybe 2 gals of water before it ran dry. I elevated the bow with a floor jack about 5 ft in the air and let it set for two weeks, it was pretty dry and nothin eles came out. The foam in the transom seemed to be dry till I poked the drill bit through the inside layer of glass of the transom, so I think that the transom is still good. And I can lift the bow and stern up by hand now and it feels much lighter already.


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## Guest

Ok, my last post on this thread...
Those aren’t stringers! CS uses polyurethane foam logs bedded in chop from a chopper gun then a certain thickness layer of chop from a chopper gun between the foam logs, then lastly... a layer of chop from a chopper gun over the foam logs. Use the product I reccomended or something similar “not insulation foam from big orange or big blue”! Follow the procedure I recommended and you will have a boat that is still foam filled “only with a true closed cell and structural foam this time”. Then when all done, if you need to screw something to the floor... simply pot the fastener by under drilling the hole, reaming out with an allen key in a cordless drill, fill with thickened resin, drill to proper size slightly beveling/countersinking the top to create a place for sealant, apply sealant, and screw whatever it is down. Done! Hope that helps.


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## Jeepdane89

The engineer at CS told me over the phone that that would fix my problem, lol. He told me that the strigers were perforated lol not at all true. And even if it were the water was wicking up around the foam and penetrating the edges a good 1/4 to 1/2 and inch all the way aound, and That is not going to drain. Plus I still had water right at the trasnom, about an inch too, even thoght I dilled the hole as low as I possibly could. I think that these skiffs are a bit like a big surfboard, and if the foam is totally encapsolatd it should not take any water on.


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## Jeepdane89

Boatbrains said:


> Ok, my last post on this thread...
> Those aren’t stringers! CS uses polyurethane foam logs bedded in chop from a chopper gun then a certain thickness layer of chop from a chopper gun between the foam logs, then lastly... a layer of chop from a chopper gun over the foam logs. Use the product I reccomended or something similar “not insulation foam from big orange or big blue”! Follow the procedure I recommended and you will have a boat that is still foam filled “only with a true closed cell and structural foam this time”. Then when all done, if you need to screw something to the floor... simply pot the fastener by under drilling the hole, reaming out with an allen key in a cordless drill, fill with thickened resin, drill to proper size slightly beveling/countersinking the top to create a place for sealant, apply sealant, and screw whatever it is down. Done! Hope that helps.


So what size holes should I drill in the foam, and for what purpose, does that make it more fexable?


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## Guest

Jeepdane89 said:


> So what size holes should I drill in the foam, and for what purpose, does that make it more fexable?


3/16 should do. They are to allow the bonding putty room to go somewhere when you start weighing the foam down. Without them, you run a higher risk of getting a void between the core and hull skin.


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## albuilt51

Went through this whole process with a water logged J12. 350 pounds overweight. After much research I settled on removing all but a 6" perimeter of the decking using a circular saw, and left about an inch at the top of each rib, 1/2' on either side, using a jig saw. This made leveling off the expanding foam much easier and exact while giving structural support to the new fiberglass decking. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO REMOVE THE WATER FROM THE HULL, THAN TO REMOVE THE WET FOAM. The water will not drain from the foam, it holds it like a magnet.

After letting the hull dry out I poured 2# density Ureathane foam and leveled off the top to where the old decking was using a thin bladed, flush cut pull saw from Harbor Freight. Note: buy more foam than you need as you'll waste a lot by not pouring fast enough and over-pouring, (see Lesson Learned 3# below).

Next day I used two layers of 1708 glass, with epoxy resin, and a top coat of mat for a non-slip textured surface, and painted with Topside paint. Solid floor now, looks as good or better than new, and has kept the weight off.

Lessons learned:
1) INSIST on weighing a used CS before you buy it! If current owner doesn't want the hassle, then they don't get the money. A lot of your time, money, and labor hang in the balance.
2) DO NOT drill holes in your decking to mount stuff, that's usually how the water starts to creep in. Silicone won't seal a hull for very long, so if you must drill a hole use 3M 5200 Marine Sealant - period.
3) Urethane foam will eventually absorb water, regardless of what manufacturers claim. The trick is to keep the water out by having a rigid floor with no cracks or holes.
3) DO NOT use expanding foam from your local home improvement store. It's not rigid enough, and emits gases long after it has hardened and covered with fiberglass... creating bubbles and bulges.
4) If you do buy an overweight CS, (other similar boat with foam flotation below deck), make sure you BUY IT CHEAP! 

All the work I went through was not expected when I bought the boat, but did result in resurrecting the old waterlogged skiff into a like-new condition boat that has a lot of future ahead. Though a lot of work, I have to admit I enjoyed the process, but I'm retired and love a rewarding challenge. Knowing what needs to be done and how, having the tools, materials, and space, the major work could be done in a weekend.


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## yobata

There is a post in the bragging section of someone doing this exact work on a CS - its called No Regerts or something similar...


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## Jeepdane89

Just to understand what you are saying, albilt51 You left the chopped strand stringers in the haul and filled the voids between them(where the original foam blocks were) with 2 part 2 pound pour in foam? Or did you scrap out the haul and grind it down to a bare haul first, then fill with foam?
Thanks for the post.


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## yobata

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/carolina-ragrets.76960/


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## Jeepdane89

Ahh....lol thanks I could not find it/ looks stout, look very heavy too lol too heavy for what I will need for my application. I think I am going to use HoneyCombo plastic board, reinforced with fiberglass to rebuild my deck. I may use it to build stringers as well and just nix the flotation foam. Or maybe laminate the plastic honeycomb board directly to the floor and glass it in and nix the stringers too. Super sturdy and super light, plus the honeycomb does add a bit of flotation.


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## Guest

I guess I am gonna have to buy a waterlogged carolina skiff to show folks how to re core the hull minus the garbage chop stringers and foam sponge yet retain the same buoyancy the original had.


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## yobata

Boatbrains said:


> I guess I am gonna have to buy a waterlogged carolina skiff to show folks how to re core the hull minus the garbage chop stringers and foam sponge yet retain the same buoyancy the original had.


More content for the YouTube channel


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## Jeepdane89

I looked high and dry for the 5 pound foam that Boatbrains was talking about and all I could find was 4 pound. If I wanted it shipped to my house its gonna be 200 shipping. I called around to the local boat fabricators and fiberglass suppliers around me and found that none of them have that kinda foam. Everyone I talked to locally said to use 2 pound urethane foam. I final found a supplier for something I might can use witch is that honeycomb stuff. I can get it at a huge discount, and it already has fiberglass reinforced sides. None of the experienced boat builders that I spoke to told me that the foam was going to add any rigidity to the haul. I am not saying that I agree with that statement, just that is what the suppliers and fabricators around here are telling me. At any rate, I'm ass deep in alligators over here wonderin why I'd drained the swamp lol and the trout are runnin in the creeks so I need to hurry this project up lol!


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## Guest

Jeepdane89 said:


> I looked high and dry for the 5 pound foam that Boatbrains was talking about and all I could find was 4 pound. If I wanted it shipped to my house its gonna be 200 shipping. I called around to the local boat fabricators and fiberglass suppliers around me and found that none of them have that kinda foam. Everyone I talked to locally said to use 2 pound urethane foam. I final found a supplier for something I might can use witch is that honeycomb stuff. I can get it at a huge discount, and it already has fiberglass reinforced sides. None of the experienced boat builders that I spoke to told me that the foam was going to add any rigidity to the haul. I am not saying that I agree with that statement, just that is what the suppliers and fabricators around here are telling me. At any rate, I'm ass deep in alligators over here wonderin why I'd drained the swamp lol and the trout are runnin in the creeks so I need to hurry this project up lol!


Where do you call home? My method is a 2day ordeal and you are done!


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## JPizzle

Would it be feasible to cut a strip of deck out from front to back, say 6" wide. Then tent / seal the boat with plastic and run a commercial type dehumidifier to dry it out? Seems like it would be able to draw the moisture out the same way the remediation subcontractors can to a flooded house. Might not get every last drop, but I would assume to get the majority. Some of them can pull 15-20 gallons a day. Could just have the drain hose thru the transom drain plug and taped up. Even if you let it run for a week, would be a lot less work them removing all of the foam.


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## Guest

JPizzle said:


> Would it be feasible to cut a strip of deck out from front to back, say 6" wide. Then tent / seal the boat with plastic and run a commercial type dehumidifier to dry it out? Seems like it would be able to draw the moisture out the same way the remediation subcontractors can to a flooded house. Might not get every last drop, but I would assume to get the majority. Some of them can pull 15-20 gallons a day. Could just have the drain hose thru the transom drain plug and taped up. Even if you let it run for a week, would be a lot less work them removing all of the foam.


The foam doesn’t like to let the water go once it is absorbed.


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## Jeepdane89

Florida


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## Guest

Jeepdane89 said:


> Florida


Where in Florida? My guy is in Tampa, I am in Citrus and make the drive regularly.


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## Jeepdane89

North Florida, Tampa is about a 3 hr drive on I75


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## FosterKid

Was not fun lol


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## Jeepdane89




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## Jeepdane89

A little more progress on the ol J14 today and its looking pretty good. I removed all of the foam, and the boat is much much lighter. It is really crazy how a little water intrussion here and there can add so much weight. I am thoughrly sore lol. I am considering a new method of repair wich will be pouring in 2 part foam, leveling off and then layin some resin and glass, atleast two or 3 layers followed by top coat gellcoat. Pretty excited to finish it now and test it out! should get up and move with that ol 28 johnson!lol yeeyee!!


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## fishnpreacher

Looks good! How high are the ribs/stringers in the bottom of the skiff?

Are you planning on adding decks, console, wiring? If so, think about adding some structural support and wire chase while you have the floor out.


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## Jeepdane89

They are 3 1/2 inches tall. I am going to caot them in resin, then add the foam and try and level it off with the tops of the stringers. Might add a PVC drain tube might not, havent decided yet.


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## Jeepdane89

The deck will be simply flush with the stringer tops, made of glass and resin. That is how it came stock.


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## Jeepdane89




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## Jeepdane89

So an up date on operation water logged CS J14 aka I am out of my Gosh darned mind lol
Today I coated the whole inside floor and all the glass stringers with resin, the stringers are much more stout now. I then added AB 2 Pound foam, 4 gals = 200 bucks and looks like I will need some more, maybe 2 gals. Because I left the factory stringers intact I can essentially use them as a depth gauge and by using an old western hand saw, rough in the foam foam pretty level. I plan to finish it up with some 40 grit and a belt sander, followed by more resin, 1708 sheets(2) and one choped mat sheet, then gel coat. I may want to use some sort of mastic to fill any voids left in the foam before glassing in, any advice/ suggestions? Thank yal in advanced! I was thinking about bondo, but I don't want to add too much weight.


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## Jeepdane89

So here is the finished Haul, I sprayed the gelcoat tonight and webbing, it is 90 percent dry, but there are areas that are still pretty wet. Hopefully it cures. Glad to get it done. Also took it back to the scrap yard today and weighed in at 680 pounds, before it was 1160. But last time it had the casting platforms on the fron and rear and there atleast 100 combined, so I'd say I shaved off easily 300 pounds woopwoop!!


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## Jeepdane89

boat trailer weighed around 450 pounds believe it or not, it is home made and pretty chunky lol, 
Just for frame of refrence, the boat should be around 300 pounds stock.


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## Jeepdane89

Does anyone have any good recomendations for cleaning and freshening up casting decks/ platforms?


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## Jeepdane89




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