# Let’s talk fly lines



## SkimmerSkiffer (3 mo ago)

Why is it that I have noticed that the actual weight in grams for these fly lines are always more than the general number in all of the Flyline charts that I have come across to the point where it seems like we should be using a 7 weight line on an 8 weight rod, because the true weight of these 7 weight lines is actually an 8 weight grain.

Hopefully that made sense, are there people out there that go up or down a size and have a mixed match set up?


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## hillcharl (Feb 7, 2011)

I’m no expert but I have been dabbling in SWFF for 12 years now. It seems the line makers have made the lines heavier to load the newer stiffer action rods more quickly. This makes them more user friendly to newbies and ideally (for rod and line manufacturers) gets more people to fly fish. I try to use bonefish and tarpon lines on most of my rods as they are close to the true line weight. Rio seem to be heavier across the board in the SW lines. I don’t under line a rod, hasn’t worked well in the past. Just my 2 cents.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

You're correct on your observation. I think everything is basically a rod and line heavier than older rods. 

I have some older Sage RPLX rods and underline those with modern lines. 

The other thing to consider is if you're making quick short casts versus long casts where you're carrying more line in the air.


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## Rich11111 (Jun 6, 2018)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> Why is it that I have noticed that the actual weight in grams for these fly lines are always more than the general number in all of the Flyline charts that I have come across to the point where it seems like we should be using a 7 weight line on an 8 weight rod, because the true weight of these 7 weight lines is actually an 8 weight grain.
> 
> Hopefully that made sense, are there people out there that go up or down a size and have a mixed match set up?


I've also have noticed that fly line weights do not necessarily go by the standard classification . It does make comparing fly lines unreliable when a manufacture classifies a weight line incorrectly. I do have some rods with underweighted lines since they are mod-fast action rods that I want them to feel as a fast action due to wind needs. Another person may have said that my rod is too soft and not use it. I think the bottom line is if it feels good to cast then it is good for that person. If a rod feels soft then drop the line weight. If a rod feels stiff then up the line weight. If it is a novice time with casting will allow better cast timing and better tuning of line weight to his liking. If a beginner is casting a particular set up he may think it is balanced but in reality the rod is overloaded due to an untrue classification/weight class of line. All the novice knows is that it feels good. Hope that makes sense (it's early and coffee not taken effect yet )


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## SkimmerSkiffer (3 mo ago)

hillcharl said:


> I’m no expert but I have been dabbling in SWFF for 12 years now. It seems the line makers have made the lines heavier to load the newer stiffer action rods more quickly. This makes them more user friendly to newbies and ideally (for rod and line manufacturers) gets more people to fly fish. I try to use bonefish and tarpon lines on most of my rods as they are close to the true line weight. Rio seem to be heavier across the board in the SW lines. I don’t under line a rod, hasn’t worked well in the past. Just my 2 cents.


Gotcha that makes sense


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## aduca (Sep 8, 2012)

I own a pretty full suite of Hardy Zephrus rods and underweight each as follows:
7wt-10wt rods- Airflo Gulf Redfish underweighted 1 flyline size to rod size (i.e. 6wt line on my 7wt, etc)
11wt-12wt rods- Cortland Tarpon underweighted 1 flyline size to rod size (i.e. 10wt line on my 11wt, etc)

After much trial and expensive error testing different lines I have found the Hardy rods (and some others) like a true to weight aafta line weight and they cast so much better set up like this for me.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

When considering line weights for a given rod - remember that so much of our angling depends on just how far away that fish is, that you're casting at... Most fly lines are designed to load your rod with about 30 feet of line out from the rod's tip... If you're working closer distances than that you're just not able to load the rod properly... As a result I frequently will set up a rod I'm going to be handing my angler for night tarpon fishing with one line size heavier than normal - so that he (or she) can make that cast at very close ranges -many of our night fish are under bridges back in the shadows and we're fishing really close (just behind them), so close that occasionally my angler can actually reach out with that rod tip and touch the fish if desired...


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

aduca said:


> I own a pretty full suite of Hardy Zephrus rods and underweight each as follows:
> 7wt-10wt rods- Airflo Gulf Redfish underweighted 1 flyline size to rod size (i.e. 6wt line on my 7wt, etc)
> 11wt-12wt rods- Cortland Tarpon underweighted 1 flyline size to rod size (i.e. 10wt line on my 11wt, etc)
> 
> After much trial and expensive error testing different lines I have found the Hardy rods (and some others) like a true to weight aafta line weight and they cast so much better set up like this for me.


Yup. I’d say my Zephyrs 10wt is on the soft side. I put a 10wt BTT Short on it (all I had at the time) and it just couldn’t handle it. Recently put a 10wt Cortland Tarpon on it and it is a much better rod now.


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> Why is it that I have noticed that the actual weight in grams for these fly lines are always more than the general number in all of the Flyline charts that I have come across to the point where it seems like we should be using a 7 weight line on an 8 weight rod, because the true weight of these 7 weight lines is actually an 8 weight grain.
> 
> Hopefully that made sense, are there people out there that go up or down a size and have a mixed match set up?


The industry is not doing the consumer any favors, that’s for sure. Just like today’s 5 iron, is yesteryear’s 3 iron. I have a mess of Cortland 333 lines that I start a new rod off on. Like @lemaymiami stated, knowing your intended target range will give you a better idea of what line you need to put on the rod. Not every situation calls for 60-80 foot cast. And not every rod that cast 60-80 feet is going to do well at 30-40 feet. I’m a bass fisherman, so having multiple rods for different situations/techniques is not new to me. I’ll sometimes have 3 different 8wts on my boat. One for short cast, one for long cast/wind, and one with an intermediate line. Getting one rod to do all three is going to be a compromise somewhere, hence the 8wt line that weighs 1/2 to 3/4 over standard. For instance, XYZ rods tells you this is the longest casting, fastest recovering, space aged 8wt ever built (in all honesty it’s a 10wt with 8wt marked on it), put a standard 8wt line on there and try to cast 30-40 feet……. It’s going to feel like a pool stick.


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## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

Jason M said:


> You're correct on your observation. I think everything is basically a rod and line heavier than older rods.
> 
> I have some older Sage RPLX rods and underline those with modern lines.
> 
> The other thing to consider is if you're making quick short casts versus long casts where you're carrying more line in the air.


never thought of that and maybe why I called my RPLX softer rods in another thread. I am going to try underlining my RPLX tonight to check it out. Thanks for the insight.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

It takes some experimentation above reading the published line weight in grains. Even published weights should be questioned. After a while you will have a library of lines to try with a new rod and can make decisions of what new line to buy based on direct observation/casting. I found it frustrating when I was wanting to start with the “right” line for a single set up. I’ve since realized that this is one of the “mysterious“ variables of saltwater fly fishing that I actually enjoy working to figure out…especially since there is plenty more to it than a line working with a rod. 

One tip is that like families of rods, families of lines have the same characteristics throughout weights. This helps decision making when starting with a new weight rod.

Another tip is to buy used lines or find old stock clearance lines instead of throwing down for new +$100 lines out these days.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)




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## SkimmerSkiffer (3 mo ago)

Backwater said:


> View attachment 224547


Yes that’s the one I have. My line shows like 235gr for a 8wt


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## GaterB (Nov 10, 2021)

Love this thread. As a relative newcomer to the sport, figuring out how to match line weight, taper, rod flex and casting stroke has been one of the biggest challenges. Starting out with an 8wt rod rated as Mod-Fast, I purchased an "8wt" line initially, and it worked well for shorter, 20-30 foot casts. However, when trying to stretch out longer casts, suddenly the rod felt "mushy," and I'd often try to push it too hard with my forward cast and haul, resulting in lots of tailing loops and "bad casting knots." 

As I started learning more about grain weight I checked it for the line I had and it's 240g. After switching to a true 8wt (210g Bonefish line), suddenly the rod has another gear, and I don't have to "force it." 

I, too come from a history of bass fishing so now I use the heavier line for windier days or days I think I'll have shorter shots, and go with the lighter setup when I feel like I'll need to be more stealthy and take my shot at a longer distance.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> Yes that’s the one I have. My line shows like 235gr for a 8wt


Rio, Wulff and Monic are typically 1rod wt heavier than what the line is stated. Lines like SA, Cortland and a few others try to stick with a normal weighted fly line+/-. So keep that in mine. Some newer to fly casting, picking up ultra fast and or stiffer rods prefer the "feel" of a line that is 1 rod wt heavier than the actual rod. Also the same with freshwater fisherman from up north that is use to a slower action freshwater rod, that then picks up a faster, stouter saltwater rod and then prefers to over line it by 1 or 2 rod wts to get that same action they are use to in the rod. But that being said, it resembles going to a rod 1 line weight heavier than what you are holding in your hand.

The trick is to get a line fitted to either what you need for the fly, the distance and the conditions according to rod weight you want to use, or learn how to cast a true to weight fly line, and adjust your casting and the fly size to the distance and the conditions, needed.

No doubt we can spend pages of discussions on this thread about the subject in all camps, but also, there is no doubts too that their are many different rods, different styles of rods, using the "correct fly size and weight of the fly," as well as many casting styles to achieve what you are trying to target in those specific conditions. The fun comes in where you are able "through experience" to dial those things in to accomplish what you set out to do, preferable by skill and not necessarily by luck.

So, there is *no* do-all rod, with a do-all line, using a do-all fly, with a do-all casting technique, in a normal conditions to catch any fish that swims.

For me, after all those years throwing the buggy whip around, I've reduced it down to just the basic few outfits that cover most of what I'm targeting. Same with lines. I also have no problems throwing a slightly heavier line on a faster or heavier rod, when conditions call for it, but casting rods with some feel to it, throwing any sort of distance with true to weight lines with flies correctly size for those lines, are my preferred setup.

Ted


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## Fergal (3 mo ago)

This an issue that annoys me. IMHO, Rio is the worst at it. Most their lines are at least one full weight heavier than what's stated on the label.

I am using the AFTMA standard and while there are certainly flaws with that I like knowing what the first 30' weighs. Obviously, head length matters too (but less so to me).

The second issue is that many rods are really one wt higher than their stated range. IMHO(again...) Sage is a big offender here. Their 9s really seem to be 10, etc. At least in my hands. I've found Scott's Sector to be true their stated weight, same for T&T's Sextant.. I fish and like my Burks, those too seem true to their stated weight. For many of those rods, if I'm looking at a Rio product I tend to go one size down (a 9 line on a 10 rod). I find SA a little more true to their weights as well and if they're not they are pretty clear about where the line falls.

There are lots of variables here - skill level, intended use (short/quick casts vs long casts (blind or with some time) and one may want to adjust to that situation accordingly.

I'm in the NE, it would be nice if shops could let you try a line first. I (like many others) have a collection of lines that I bought and ended up not liking in one way or another. Some times I can make them work on another rod, some times I can't and I'm out a $100 or so.


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

Heavier lines are easier to cast poorly, particularly when one buys a rod that is too stiff for one's skill level.
The creep in line weights reflects the market demand, which in turn is driven by guys who need a bandaid for their casting flaws. 

When you can't feel your line 'loading' your rod you need a better backcast (and maybe a lighter reel), not a heavier line.
Likewise, the inability to cast a short line well on a stiff rod reflects too large a casting arc (and likely bad tracking) rather than a problem 'loading the rod'.

The whole concept of the need to "load" a rod to make a good cast is misleading. The rod acts like both a lever and a spring. The spring component contributes only about 15-25% of the energy transmitted to the line. The main benefit of "loading" a rod is that it makes the rod bend. The bend, in turn, helps keep the tip on a straight line path as the butt is accelerated in an arc.....hence transmitting force to the line directed towards a target rather than around an arc. Provided you accelerate a rod smoothly it will load itself correctly for the line that is on it. If you focus on trying to load it, however, things quickly go bad.


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## Fergal (3 mo ago)

numbskull said:


> Heavier lines are easier to cast poorly, particularly when one buys a rod that is too stiff for one's skill level.
> The creep in line weights reflects the market demand, which in turn _*is driven by guys who need a bandaid for their casting flaws.*_
> 
> When you can't feel your line 'loading' your rod you need a better backcast (and maybe a lighter reel), not a heavier line.
> ...


Absolutely


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Backwater said:


> View attachment 224547


@Backwater where you been?


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## Vinny L (Oct 20, 2020)

efi2712micro said:


> never thought of that and maybe why I called my RPLX softer rods in another thread. I am going to try underlining my RPLX tonight to check it out. Thanks for the insight.


I found in my closet a rod tube, when I pulled it out I found an 8 wt 9’6” RPL I build back in the late 80s maybe early 90s. Anyway, knowing it’s much softer then my recent builds and or factory rods I put a true weight 200 grain line on it and it was still a little much so I dropped it to a 7wt 180 g line. Great accuracy and impressive distance for a 30 year old rod. But I still had to slow down the stroke to get the rod to work but less so with the 7 wt line.
🤔 Hope that made sense


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## mfdevin (Jun 18, 2020)

I pretty much don’t pay attention to the “wt” designation on the box any more, and just look for grain weight. Some rods feel better to me with different weights/tapers. Most of my rods I fish with a true line (say 210-220g) with my 8wt, because while overweighting will make it easier to load the rod, it doesn’t fit my casting stroke very well. With certain rods I find it’s helpful for feeling the rod load up, and makes it a little more enjoyable to fish. I have a few fiberglass rods, and a few graphite rods. I found it helpful to buy some used lines and new when I had extra money, and I’ll play with what feels better, or sometimes I’ll change to a different line for a certain situation because I feel like it’ll make it easier (long casts vs short quick casts - although I did take a short rod designed for quick short casts to fish dock lights where we were casting 80ft the other night, so sometimes i think I enjoy just shooting myself in the foot). In general i think it’s helpful to start with a bonefish taper, or say SA grand slam (true weight to your rod), and go from there. I also really like the wulff TT lines, and I love 2 of the new airflo lines, one I own and one I’ve just cast/fished briefly, but it’s good. I don’t LOVE most of the rio/Cortland lines I’ve fished, but I do like the rio permit taper. I think it’s a preference/casting style thing.


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

I think we are seeing a shift in the paradigm. Rod actions are finally shifting away from telephone poles to more realistic fishing tools. There are a few manufacturers stubbornly reluctant to see the trend emerging before their own eyes. Most manufacturers are now moving towards more progressive tappers with stiff butt sections and softer tips in order to offer a more balanced action. This will inevitably make line manufacturers revise their line up as well. Wash, rinse, repeat. The only company I know of right now that has been marketing their rods properly is Orvis. They started years ago with the tip flex/mid flex options, now to their H3D/H3F actions. This gives the buyer a better sense of what he’s looking for and/or getting into, and how to expect to line them. Every other manufacturer is calling their flagship rod “fast” because, well…. dudes like fast shit, and fast shit sells. Although brand A’s fast is really brand B’s medium-fast and so on. There needs to be a better standard in the industry when it comes to rods. Best I can come up with is frequency testing them to a standard like one would do building golf clubs… then lines, we already have a standard for that.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Surffshr said:


> It takes some experimentation above reading the published line weight in grains. Even published weights should be questioned. After a while you will have a library of lines to try with a new rod and can make decisions of what new line to buy based on direct observation/casting. I found it frustrating when I was wanting to start with the “right” line for a single set up. I’ve since realized that this is one of the “mysterious“ variables of saltwater fly fishing that I actually enjoy working to figure out…especially since there is plenty more to it than a line working with a rod.
> 
> One tip is that like families of rods, families of lines have the same characteristics throughout weights. This helps decision making when starting with a new weight rod.
> 
> Another tip is to buy used lines or find old stock clearance lines instead of throwing down for new +$100 lines out these days.


I find it next to impossible to tryout different lines as I don’t know any fly shop that’s going to let you unbox new ones. I’m sure that some shops might load their “demo casting reels “ with the most common lines requested. Keep a close eye out on the Fly Fishing classifieds here on Microskiff, good used lines do show up from time to time!


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Yep, Fly Fishing Classifieds here is a good source. 

sierra.com often has new surplus lines for sale.

Another vendor of surplus/pre-owned is tradenstuff.com


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

Sometimes it can even changes in the same rod line up. I have a Scott sector 7wt with #7 SA Bonefish 185gr which is on light size for the rod and it cast and loads like a dream. But the #8 SA Bonefish 210gr which is also on the light side for 8wt on the 8wt Scott Sector and it does not load up near as nice, and as reported by others needs a heavier line.


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## mfdevin (Jun 18, 2020)

Flatoutfly said:


> Sometimes it can even changes in the same rod line up. I have a Scott sector 7wt with #7 SA Bonefish 185gr which is on light size for the rod and it cast and loads like a dream. But the #8 SA Bonefish 210gr which is also on the light side for 8wt on the 8wt Scott Sector and it does not load up near as nice, and as reported by others needs a heavier line.


I have been finding myself grabbing my sage x 7wt over my r8 8wt lately, and while I like a true to weight line on the r8, I prefer an 8wt line on the x. I actually have been fishing the same line on both rods, lol. For me the x definitely feels much better 1 line size heavy. Really wakes it up in the feeling dept. but I’ve fished the x in 8wt, and really enjoyed it with a true to weight line 🤷🏽‍♂️


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

it is very interesting to me that some rods will be so good with a certain line, but kinda suck with others. Then there are rods that simply throw whatever. I find that situation mostly with glass rods which I attribute to the actions being not as “precise”…Is is not uncommon on the vintage rods to have 2 or 3 wts listed and they will throw those lines all pretty dang good. 

All good with me because I’m an admitted gear whore.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Surffshr said:


> it is very interesting to me that some rods will be so good with a certain line, but kinda suck with others. Then there are rods that simply throw whatever. I find that situation mostly with glass rods which I attribute to the actions being not as “precise”…Is is not uncommon on the vintage rods to have 2 or 3 wts listed and they will throw those lines all pretty dang good.
> 
> All good with me because I’m an admitted gear whore.


My guess as to why you (or any of us) can cast glass rods with a wider range of lines is that because it’s easier to feel the rod load, it’s easier to adjust your casting stroke to accommodate the different rod/line combinations.


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## SkimmerSkiffer (3 mo ago)

I’m wondering if I should try out a closer to true weight line (something like a bonefish quick shooter) and see how it works. Most of my fishing will be from the boat, I’m using SA redfish now and it’s on the high side 8wt at 225gr


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> I’m wondering if I should try out a closer to true weight line (something like a bonefish quick shooter) and see how it works. Most of my fishing will be from the boat, I’m using SA redfish now and it’s on the high side 8wt at 225gr


Quick shooter will be even heavier.


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## Rich11111 (Jun 6, 2018)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> I’m wondering if I should try out a closer to true weight line (something like a bonefish quick shooter) and see how it works. Most of my fishing will be from the boat, I’m using SA redfish now and it’s on the high side 8wt at 225gr


If your fish is spooked by noise of line gently being placed then you might want lighter line or longer leader-tippet.


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## OED (Feb 26, 2019)

@SkimmerSkiffer the SA textured Grand Slam paired wonderfully with my Scott Tidal 6wt. Will be picking up some for my 8wt shortly.


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## Bajabob (Jul 15, 2018)

aduca said:


> I own a pretty full suite of Hardy Zephrus rods and underweight each as follows:
> 7wt-10wt rods- Airflo Gulf Redfish underweighted 1 flyline size to rod size (i.e. 6wt line on my 7wt, etc)
> 11wt-12wt rods- Cortland Tarpon underweighted 1 flyline size to rod size (i.e. 10wt line on my 11wt, etc)
> 
> After much trial and expensive error testing different lines I have found the Hardy rods (and some others) like a true to weight aafta line weight and they cast so much better set up like this for me.


If I remember correctly Andy Mill and Hardy designed their tarpon weight rods to be cast with true to weight lines


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## Bajabob (Jul 15, 2018)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> I’m wondering if I should try out a closer to true weight line (something like a bonefish quick shooter) and see how it works. Most of my fishing will be from the boat, I’m using SA redfish now and it’s on the high side 8wt at 225gr


I think sa bonefish is a true to weight line


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

@SkimmerSkiffer what rod are you working with?


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## SkimmerSkiffer (3 mo ago)

OED said:


> @SkimmerSkiffer the SA textured Grand Slam paired wonderfully with my Scott Tidal 6wt. Will be picking up some for my 8wt shortly.


Buddy of mine uses that one. Why textured versus smooth ?


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## OED (Feb 26, 2019)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> Buddy of mine uses that one. Why textured versus smooth ?


Less material touching the guides


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## Superscroll (3 mo ago)

efi2712micro said:


> never thought of that and maybe why I called my RPLX softer rods in another thread. I am going to try underlining my RPLX tonight to check it out. Thanks for the insight.


Dang if that doesn't have me wondering if that's why i enjoy mine as well. 

Great thread for sure! Not much fun buying $100 fly lines in a quest to get the perfect action on a rod. With fly shops fading into history it's tough!


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## Flyfish40 (Sep 23, 2019)

Man it is hard to find a rod and line combo you love! I have found mine thankfully, but agree line manufacturers make line a touch heavy to help casters with fast action rods load. That being said I like fishing a true to weight fly line well within the range of the rods recommended line weight (Scott fly rods the sector specifically). Some fly shops have some line you can try or try a buddy’s if able to. Other than that kinda a guess in check on weight taper you want and need and how it cast for you. I like some airflo, SA and don’t over look Monic! True to weight as any out there


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

There isn’t a fly rod sold that won’t cast 3 different line weights well. 
One may not like how the rod feels doing it, or a given caster may struggle to make the necessary adjustments, but the rod itself can easily handle it.


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## BM_Barrelcooker (May 4, 2011)

I was digging thru the liquor cabinet the other day pulling out all of the dusty old bourbon bottles in preparation for the holidays and low and behold I found an 8 weight depth charge line I’ve been looking for for a couple years. 
it was behind a 3/4 empty special bottle of four roses triple run …..go figure.


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## Flyfish40 (Sep 23, 2019)

Will have the new airflo universal taper tomorrow for my sector 6wt hopefully it will be a good combo. Looks like a good front taper for short cast but still has a longer rear taper for some control on some longer cast when needed


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

I ordered a Cortland Clear 7wt I'll try on an older Scott.


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

mro said:


> I ordered a Cortland Clear 7wt I'll try on an older Scott.


Becoming my favorite line next to the grand slam.


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## MFrid19 (Oct 20, 2015)

mro said:


> I ordered a Cortland Clear 7wt I'll try on an older Scott.


I foun that the cortland clear line need to be dressed quite often. It sounds like nails down a chalk board going through the recoil guides of my NRX after a short time fishing. I have been fishing the Cortland Tropic Plus lines and like the a lot, different coating making the main difference.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

MFrid19 said:


> need to be dressed quite often


I was an early adopter when the first clean tips came out. Was not real impressed

Is there a clear line that is considered "real" good?
I've a few places where if you cast within 20 feet the fish spooks.
When it's on a sandy bottom you have to make a lucky guess as to where the fish is headed as the fly's I use will sink to the bottom before the fish gets there.


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## MFrid19 (Oct 20, 2015)

mro said:


> I was an early adopter when the first clean tips came out. Was not real impressed
> 
> Is there a clear line that is considered "real" good?
> I've a few places where if you cast within 20 feet the fish spooks.
> When it's on a sandy bottom you have to make a lucky guess as to where the fish is headed as the fly's I use will sink to the bottom before the fish gets there.


Ive heard the new Monic lines have been improved from the past lines. SA has a lot of different clear lines, however a lot are very specific, i.e hover, intermediate, parabolic, and all different sink rates.

That being said, I rather have a colored line with a long leader for better tracking and versatility(especially with how expensive line is becoming).


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

I'll lawn cast it first, then if I like it I'll fish it to see how it does in real situations.

just checked out Monics web page. Prices seem to be reasonable.
Also found this:

*STS Running Line*
Advertised as a better casting/shooting like.
I've used Cortland's running line for decades and it works ok, but always open to try something new.
I still have about 30 shooting heads for 6 to 9wt rods, 1 to 6+ sinks, and a couple that I've customized for particular situations. None of them get much use anymore as the California steel head crowds became insufferable with only a few exceptions and the advent of the integrated sinking head with intermediate running line may not cast as far but there close enough and so much nicer to cast that I use them for 90 percent when I want to go deep.


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## Barbless Bob (Apr 22, 2019)

lemaymiami said:


> ...many of our night fish are under bridges back in the shadows and we're fishing really close (just behind them), so close that occasionally my angler can actually reach out with that rod tip and touch the fish if desired...


The thought of initially setting the hook of a fly into the mouth of a large tarpon (over 80 pounds) that close, at night, especially near a bridge abutment or structure in Biscayne Bay where the current is often wild, is one of those adventures fit for a Zane Grey short story! Hang on buckeroo!


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## Rich11111 (Jun 6, 2018)

A recent youtube video that everyone might enjoy watching.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

I've got a spring type fly line scale and then a while ago I bought a electronic scale that measures down to grains.
I recorded all my rods, reels and lines in a little address book and what lines I liked for each rod.
Now I can't remember where the book is.
My new Cortland clear intermediate line came in and now I'm thinking of one that supposed to "hover".


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## Thtguyrobb (Nov 1, 2019)

SkimmerSkiffer said:


> I’m wondering if I should try out a closer to true weight line (something like a bonefish quick shooter) and see how it works. Most of my fishing will be from the boat, I’m using SA redfish now and it’s on the high side 8wt at 225gr


honestly, i wouldn’t worry too much about it man. You’re just starting out fly fishing, unless you’re just a prodigy, you’re going to suck for awhile. I wouldn’t go down that rabbit hole of thinking this line will improve your casting immediately, because when you just start…its hard to feel those differences

if the line you’re using now is 225 grains, and the 8wt standard is 210…i don’t think a reduction of 15 grains is going to magically improve your casting

Much better off sticking to your setup and really working on your casting stroke and your double haul, and adding a back cast to your repertoire.


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## Thtguyrobb (Nov 1, 2019)

mro said:


> I was an early adopter when the first clean tips came out. Was not real impressed
> 
> Is there a clear line that is considered "real" good?
> I've a few places where if you cast within 20 feet the fish spooks.
> When it's on a sandy bottom you have to make a lucky guess as to where the fish is headed as the fly's I use will sink to the bottom before the fish gets there.


ive enjoyed monic fly lines, but if you’re fishing super clear water: it’s my understanding that those fish are reacting to the shadow of the line as it passes, shadow of the fly, and/or the flash off your glossy rod, super shiny reel, etc. clear lines also have more flash when that loop is rolling out than a normal colored fly line.

Or I’m ridiculously superstitious 🤷‍♂️


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Thtguyrobb said:


> monic fly lines


I visited their web sight and book marked the page with the clean lines.
I want to cast the line i just got before I order another.
If Cortland line loads the rod the way I like it gives me the info to selecting the Monic hover clear.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

numbskull said:


> Heavier lines are easier to cast poorly, particularly when one buys a rod that is too stiff for one's skill level.
> The creep in line weights reflects the market demand, which in turn is driven by guys who need a bandaid for their casting flaws.
> 
> When you can't feel your line 'loading' your rod you need a better backcast (and maybe a lighter reel), not a heavier line.
> ...


Hummm..... I'll have to think on that one. I like where you are going with that, but I'm not sure it covers the entire picture.

Energy transfer is the key. It's mostly on the shoulder of the caster's ability to manage slop and allowing the line to travel as true to very straight horizontal and vertical planes, but there is also a process of accumulating potential energy through rod loading, minor stretch in the line, casting drifting and such, allowing that perfect stop and then transferring and releasing that energy in the opposite direction and the timing of the perfect release and feathering control the shooting line to allow it to be place at that exact targeted place.

You're right, overloading a rod can lead to the cast failing, but then again, if distance required, underloading can also cause issues. Yes as you mentioned, tip travel is another key and how straight and true it travels according to how much or little the rod and rod tip flexes to maintain that straight rod tip path, as well as finding that sweet spot to not over or under power it to keep that tip in that perfect straight path (all all distances and at all phases of the cast, which is real all about getting to know and understand what the rod wants and likes to behave and then you giving it the right amount of thrust). Yes loading a tip flexible enough to cause the line to travel straight is one process, however, casting techniques can also make that happen in part. So I think it's the culmination of all those things (along with other items) that make it happen like it is effortless and flawless.

One other thing to remember to the rest of you reading this.... The Affta fly line weight chart is gauged on a 30ft length of the front side of the shooting head (less the tip). Today, there are a lot of heads longer and some even shorter than that (also heavbier and some lighter) and with that being said, one thing I see in casting errors and people trying to reach out to those far distance shots by aerializing too much of the shooting head outside of the tip top guide (far past that 30ft mark) while false casting (we'll just call it "carrying too much line"). If 30ft of the front part of a fly line head weighs out at 8wt on your 8wt rod @ the first 30ft of your head and you are carrying 40 and even 50ft up in the air and then trying to shoot it with one last powerful haul, then it can cause the rod to collapse (overload or over bend) and therefore take the loaded energy right out of the rod, slow the speed of the line down significantly and even throw an arch in your fly line and you end up with a mess on the business end of your flyline. Sure some rods built today need that extra weight bend deep enough at that right moment to unlock it's potential (say a heavier line or an extra 10ft or so out of the tip top guide). But most inexperience guys that really don't know their own rod yet will have issues making it work right.

Again, I didn't want to get in too deep in this subject. But there are many things happening there.

What I try to tell people is just to make sure your flies are properly sized to the fly line you are throwing them with. Then try to get a line closer to a true to weight line, unless they are still learning and the rod is too fast or stiff for them. Then LEARN proper casting strokes and techniques, keeping the line tracking straight horizontally and vertically, slowing down your casting strokes, waiting for the loops to completely unfurling out before starting your opposite stroke not carrying too much line, not overpowering your casting strokes or final shoot and then making your target 3ft above the target on the water, allowing your fly to reach that point before dropping your rod tip.

One final thing to note.... It's my opinion from doing this for decades (my son will say "a minute"), it you have a fair to good rod (doesn't have to be the best and most expensive rod out there), a very good flyline suited for your fishing conditions (don't skimp out on this one) and have really, really good casting techniques that you learned and practiced well, then you will have all the success and fun you need without buying some $2-$3k outfit. I see all these people chasing the latest and most expensive rods and reels, thinking that will make them a better caster, only to see them end up as a "Meh..." caster and fly fishermen and it doesn't put more fish to hand than a $300-$500 outfit. I promise you, as you guys learn (those reading this thread) about what it take to cast good..

Ted


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

permitchaser said:


> @Backwater where you been?


Working on re-sorting and re-arranging my life to set out on a very, very long fly fishing journey of a lifetime (well, my lifetime at least).


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Backwater said:


> Working on resorting and re-arranging my life to set out on a very, very long fly fishing journey of a lifetime (well, my lifetime at least).


Good luck man


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