# Permit Rod



## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

While I can't answer your original question, I will suggest experimenting with line (unless you just want a new rod  which is understandable). I struggled with my 10wt down in the Keys for tarpon earlier this year; on the last day I switched to a clear tip intermediate line with a shorter (9') leader, and could hit any shot I wanted. Lesson learned -- wish I had done it the first day.

Anyway, you might find that a line with a different weight/profile will help you make those quick short shots that pop up right in front of you, and it may be worth sacrificing a little of your long cast.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Getting your fly out quickly is not that important for permit. At least no more so than most any flats fishing. Most shots at permit will be done with planning. Sure some will show up out of nowhere but in general most shots at permit are going to be to fish spotted at distance. You will have time to make a good presentation.

What is, at least to me, the most important attribute is to be able to deliver the fly extremely accurately. Next would be able to do so at fairly long distances. If I was going looking for a permit specific rod I would check out the new Salt HD in a 9 wt. But you need to try the rods that fit your casting style.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> Getting your fly out quickly is not that important for permit. At least no more so than most any flats fishing. Most shots at permit will be done with planning. Sure some will show up out of nowhere but in general most shots at permit are going to be to fish spotted at distance. You will have time to make a good presentation.
> 
> What is, at least to me, the most important attribute is to be able to deliver the fly extremely accurately. Next would be able to do so at fairly long distances. If I was going looking for a permit specific rod I would check out the new Salt HD in a 9 wt. But you need to try the rods that fit your casting style.


This is helpful info.

Maybe I interpreted some suggestions incorrectly. Both a guide in the Keys and one in Belize both recommended the Chard Punch line. I assumed the reason for this was for quick shots. Now I'm realizing it may just be a good suggestion for anyone that's new. A line that helps a newer caster feel the rod. I went from all Wulff lines to a Punch and didn't like it at all. If I have time to get the line out I think I would favor the Wulff. Right now the only 9 wt I have is a Solar and again, it's not my favorite in the wind.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

10wt NRX is my go to perm rod. Like @ifsteve said most permit shots are going to be at distance. I caught two permit in belize last year and they were 60'-70' shots into 10-20 knt winds. The 10 wt allowed me to punch into the strong wind. You don't need a 10 to fight the fish but it helps in the wind ( especially when your knees are a knocking )!!
Good luck!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Maybe I look at rods differently since I used to build my own - in every size...
If it were me - I'd want at least two rods for permit -mostly depending on water/wind conditions and the size of the bug I'd be tossing.... If you can only afford one good rod - then a 9wt with the right line on it (once again - that depends a bunch on the conditions....). If you can afford two rods -then that 9 would have a 10wt as its big brother. Being a practical guy I'd sum it up by saying -whatever allows you to deliver your fly under less than ideal conditions -everything else is secondary.... Yes, I've fished permit (and bones) under ideal conditions -when an 8wt or smaller will flat do the job (small fish and small flies - permit less than 15lbs in very light or no winds...). Days like that are rare -unless you're lucky enough to be on the water 100+ days a year -then you will have those perfect weather days. For most, though, I'd expect 15 to 20 winds (always from the wrong direction) and the sun rarely where you want it... 

All of the above is for fish on the flats - if you fish permit on the wrecks you're in completely different territory where a 10wt is the lightest rod possible...


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

So I have a 10 wt Exocett and I feel like the Wulff doesn't load it well in short. I started looking at different lines that would load it better without going overboard.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

brokeoff said:


> So I have a 10 wt Exocett and I feel like the Wulff doesn't load it well in short. I started looking at different lines that would load it better without going overboard.


Sa saltwater taper works well on it


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

In Belize, especially on the Turneffe, the permit run a little smaller than some other destinations. Run of the mill is between 3-8lbs. You are not throwing huge flies at them anyways. They get hammered by fly fishing tourist, so the flies tend to run smaller to be productive. Actually, an all around bonefish/small permit rod is an 8wt down there with small crab patterns (for both) and then a 9wt to fight the wind, for larger and heavier crab patterns and for the bigger permit in the 5-10lb class. a 15lb permit is very big for down there and not very common, like in the Keys. 

If you brought a 10wt, you could still use it for the larger permit and offshore cudas and such, tho it's not as easy to throw as a 9wt.. If you have all three, then bring them. Otherwise, I'd just bring the 9wt Exocett and your go-to fast 8wt and leave it at that. Your guide (if they are a good guide service) will also have decent equipment on-board like a 10wt if needed and then just use his rod if needed since that will be the least rod you'll used on the trip.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

I wouldn't count on guides having rods OR flies in Belize. I stayed at Pescador last year and none of the guides had rods or flies on their skiffs.
You better contact them before the trip.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

backbone said:


> I wouldn't count on guides having rods OR flies in Belize. I stayed at Pescador last year and none of the guides had rods or flies on their skiffs.
> You better contact them before the trip.


That might be one of the craziest things I've ever heard. You booked an all inclusive package and they didn't have a pile of favorite flies they were going to use?

I'm a gear nut so I'll be bringing all my stuff down. It's good to have this information because in my head I'm bringing my rods and reels because that's what I can cast best. I never really thought about all the terminal tackle.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

backbone said:


> I wouldn't count on guides having rods OR flies in Belize. I stayed at Pescador last year and none of the guides had rods or flies on their skiffs.
> You better contact them before the trip.


Whoa... That's not good. But good advise to call ahead!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

brokeoff said:


> That might be one of the craziest things I've ever heard. You booked an all inclusive package and they didn't have a pile of favorite flies they were going to use?
> 
> I'm a gear nut so I'll be bringing all my stuff down. It's good to have this information because in my head I'm bringing my rods and reels because that's what I can cast best. I never really thought about all the terminal tackle.


Be careful about bringing all your good stuff. There are plenty of sticky fingers down there, so keep eyes on your good stuff.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Be careful about bringing all your good stuff. There are plenty of sticky fingers down there, so keep eyes on your good stuff.


Not sure I'm flush with options. I think I'll just have to be careful.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Backwater said:


> Be careful about bringing all your good stuff. There are plenty of sticky fingers down there, so keep eyes on your good stuff.


Agree with the need to be careful. Respectfully disagree with the bringing your good stuff point. An expensive travel trip is exactly when you for sure need to bring your good stuff. You are spending a lot of coin for a great fishing trip. Not like at home where if you gear flops there is always tomorrow. There is no tomorrow. Take the good stuff so that gear failure is never a reason for a failed trip.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Be careful about bringing *all *your good stuff. There are plenty of sticky fingers down there, so keep eyes on your good stuff.





ifsteve said:


> Agree with the need to be careful. Respectfully disagree with the bringing your good stuff point. An expensive travel trip is exactly when you for sure need to bring your good stuff. You are spending a lot of coin for a great fishing trip. Not like at home where if you gear flops there is always tomorrow. There is no tomorrow. Take the good stuff so that gear failure is never a reason for a failed trip.


I'm not trying to say that he shouldn't bring some decent outfits, but not bringing *all* of his entire arsenal. I once knew a guy who brought 6 outfits and left with just 2 of them. I also met a guy who had 4 other buddies down for a 1 week trip who had lots of high end offshore gear. They took only about 1/3 of the gear out with them on day 2 and when they came back to the house they rented, at the end of the day, they were robbed and there was nothing left, not even their clothes or luggage.

I'm trying to say to him to lean more towards minimalism instead of bringing everything including the kitchen sink. 2 to 3 rods should be plenty to cover his bases.


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## ZaneD (Feb 28, 2017)

Backwater said:


> In Belize, especially on the Turneffe, the permit run a little smaller than some other destinations. Run of the mill is between 3-8lbs. You are not throwing huge flies at them anyways. They get hammered by fly fishing tourist, so the flies tend to run smaller to be productive. Actually, an all around bonefish/small permit rod is an 8wt down there with small crab patterns (for both) and then a 9wt to fight the wind, for larger and heavier crab patterns and for the bigger permit in the 5-10lb class. a 15lb permit is very big for down there and not very common, like in the Keys.
> 
> If you brought a 10wt, you could still use it for the larger permit and offshore cudas and such, tho it's not as easy to throw as a 9wt.. If you have all three, then bring them. Otherwise, I'd just bring the 9wt Exocett and your go-to fast 8wt and leave it at that. Your guide (if they are a good guide service) will also have decent equipment on-board like a 10wt if needed and then just use his rod if needed since that will be the least rod you'll used on the trip.


While we’re on the subject, would you say that a 9wt is a significant difference from the 8wt when fighting the wind? I’ve never owned a 9wt myself so I was curious if it was worth having an 8-9-10 or just 8 and 10.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> Agree with the need to be careful. Respectfully disagree with the bringing your good stuff point. An expensive travel trip is exactly when you for sure need to bring your good stuff. You are spending a lot of coin for a great fishing trip. Not like at home where if you gear flops there is always tomorrow. There is no tomorrow. Take the good stuff so that gear failure is never a reason for a failed trip.


Yeah, I think it's always a risk of travel. Well worth it though. On summer break in college I took a surf trip from Panama to Mexico and back. I got robbed twice, not for much, though it wasn't much fun. Cab drivers once and police the next time. I've learned a few things during my travels. Come to think of it, when I was a teen I had all my reels stolen out of a checked bag on one flight...and all my rods stolen while checked another time. Ha! I sound like a mess.

Anyway, my plan is to bring the rods I have (which to me are nice) and bring them with me on the boat or be at the hotel with them. The plan for this trip will be fishing, eating, sleeping, guarding my gear, repeat.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Ted, now that makes more sense. And not necessarily for the theft issue but for many years I always took the every rod and reel I owned ....well you know just in case. And there is some truth to the "I'd rather bring it and not need it than the other way around."

What we have found to work pretty well the last number of trips is to make sure that we collectively have at least one spare outfit of each type of gear we plan to use for every two guys. And if there are three of us then we take two extras for the three guys.

For instance, if we are headed to the keys for tarpon and bones. Then we will bring three 12wts and three 8 wts for the two of us. But that is also because we know in the keys two things,
1. The guides will have gear.
2. If total disaster strikes there are fly shops close by for emergencies.

When traveling to a out of the way destination its paramount to know exactly what gear the lodge or guides will have. In this situation (yes you can go overboard....sorry pun intended) but I lean to the take more than you think you need side of things.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

ZaneD said:


> While we’re on the subject, would you say that a 9wt is a significant difference from the 8wt when fighting the wind?


When I fish permit and small tarpon in Ascension Bay, I take two 9 weights and a 10. The bonefishing is not that good in MX any more. The bones in Belize are small. To me, a nine weight is way better than an 8 for permit -- wind, long casts, fish fighting, etc.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

brokeoff said:


> Yeah, I think it's always a risk of travel. Well worth it though. On summer break in college I took a surf trip from Panama to Mexico and back. I got robbed twice, not for much, though it wasn't much fun. Cab drivers once and police the next time. I've learned a few things during my travels. Come to think of it, when I was a teen I had all my reels stolen out of a checked bag on one flight...and all my rods stolen while checked another time. Ha! I sound like a mess.
> 
> Anyway, my plan is to bring the rods I have (which to me are nice) and bring them with me on the boat or be at the hotel with them. The plan for this trip will be fishing, eating, sleeping, guarding my gear, repeat.



I carry on my rods and reels. Rig them when I get there and they all go on the boat with me daily. It also helps to travel/fish with a partner. That way you can split the gear needed between the two of you to minimize individual risk.

I sounds like your plan should work out just fine. Most important thing to remember is not to worry about it too much and enjoy yourself.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

brokeoff said:


> So I have a 10 wt Exocett and I feel like the Wulff doesn't load it well in short. I started looking at different lines that would load it better without going overboard.


It's good to keep a clear intermediate line with you for the 10wt (that's all I fish on a 10wt anyways) since it tends to be slightly heavier due to the dense materials, which helps it to load easier and quicker. Also the int line helps to get flies down without over-weighting them (which can be harder to cast over-weighted crabs).

Also practice close end shots with unloaded rods (yes it's possible). Say 20ft of flyline out of the tip top guide with a lob cast or rod tip cast, at fish that swims near the boat. It may just get another hookup for you.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ZaneD said:


> While we’re on the subject, would you say that a 9wt is a significant difference from the 8wt when fighting the wind? I’ve never owned a 9wt myself so I was curious if it was worth having an 8-9-10 or just 8 and 10.


Zane, if you already have an 8 & 10wt, then just leave it at that. But if you only have an 8wt and are deciding on a rod that will help you more with the wind and get much more use, then I'd consider a 9wt over the 10.

Out of all 3, a 10wt will get the lease use. My 9wt get's a lot of use due to the winds here in Florida and I don't want to stop fishing if it's windy. Over 60% of the days here are windy. However, you have to be mindful that you are not throwing overly large & heavy flies on that 9wt that are really meant for 10wts. Any 8wt size flies work fine on a 9wt in windier conditions, or slightly larger flies and/or heavier weighted flies on better condition days.

Also, for big fish that really needs a 10wt, especially around structure (like big mammoth jacks around docks or tarpon over 30-40lbs), then its good to have a 10wt in your arsenal. When I offshore fish, I'm usually taking the 10 and 12wts. If I"m fishing by boat well off the beaches for bonitas/lil tunny and mackerel, then it's a 9 & 10wt. Most of my inshore stuff, I take an 8 & 9wt and if I'm only flats fishing, I try to pack a 6 & 8wt, unless I know the weather will pick up, then I'm also bringing the 9wt.

If I need to take only 1 rod when fishing Tampa Bay when the wind has picked up, then it would be a 9wt.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Permit fishing will really depend what situations you are going for them in. In the keys, oftentimes fishing deeper water, edges of banks, etc. and shots can happen very quickly. In BZE more likely to see schools or tailers and have a little more lead time.

I would really choose the rod you need to throw the flies you are planning to use. When I fish the Keys, I typically use a heavier crab fly and think 10wt is necessary (+ fish are bigger). If I am in BZE and MX and throwing a Bauer crab or something like that it's easier on an 8wt.

I am a big fan of the Meridian bc I think it throws bulky flies well at various distances and is quite accurate but plenty of good rods out there. I use the Airflo clear tip tropical taper and have had good success with it.

Think you guys might be a bit paranoid about losing your gear...if you are staying at a lodge they will have security and/or you can bring the rods into your room. BZE and MX and many other places are quite safe, I wouldn't worry.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

brokeoff said:


> What do you guys look for in a permit rod? More importantly, why?
> 
> Heading to Belize next August and I'm looking at rods. After reading various forums for a while I understand that certain weights/actions might be better for certain situations. Blind casting vs sight casting to tarpon. Mexico vs Keys tarpon. Wading vs skiff for bones. Bahamas vs Keys bones.
> 
> ...


Where are you staying?

El Pescador was very safe, but everyone kept rods inside rooms on GP. 
Same as when I stayed at Victoria House.
San Pedro was very safe as well, although a very poor city. Stellar seafood and kind people.
I fished with George Bradly the first couple trips and I had to bring flies and rods.
At El Pescador you could buy flies from the pro shop but the guides were not responsible for them. I'm not sure if you could rent rods from the pro shop, but the guides certainly did not have any on the Panga's.
You will have a great time!


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

backbone said:


> Where are you staying?
> 
> El Pescador was very safe, but everyone kept rods inside rooms on GP.
> Same as when I stayed at Victoria House.
> ...


Heading to Belize Permit Club in Hopkins.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

brokeoff said:


> Heading to Belize Permit Club in Hopkins.


Sounds fun! Give us a report when you get back!


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Headed to Grand Slam on Wed to fish for a few days...hoping to get some good shots


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## Geuax Deep (Nov 16, 2017)

brokeoff said:


> Heading to Belize Permit Club in Hopkins.


How did you do? Did you fish with Wil or Mike? Wil will have flies BTW.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Geuax Deep said:


> How did you do? Did you fish with Wil or Mike? Wil will have flies BTW.


This is for an August 2018 trip. Might get bumped to spring since I just found out kid number three is due in July.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Is there a rod that most people associate with being a good wind rod? I switched from the Method/Salt/Xi3 to Solar/Exocett and am generally happy with the move. On windy days I think I could use a slightly faster rod.

Any ideas of a 10 wt that would handle an aggressive tapered line like the Punch? Something faster than a T&T but with more feel than a Method?


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

brokeoff said:


> Is there a rod that most people associate with being a good wind rod? I switched from the Method/Salt/Xi3 to Solar/Exocett and am generally happy with the move. On windy days I think I could use a slightly faster rod.
> 
> Any ideas of a 10 wt that would handle an aggressive tapered line like the Punch? Something faster than a T&T but with more feel than a Method?



NRX or CC GLX


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Salt HD. Just got mine today so only can give first impressions.....but dang nice rod.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Stevie said:


> When I fish permit and small tarpon in Ascension Bay, I take two 9 weights and a 10. The bonefishing is not that good in MX any more. The bones in Belize are small. To me, a nine weight is way better than an 8 for permit -- wind, long casts, fish fighting, etc.


I haven't been in years but I hear the restrictions put in place on bones, permit, and poon in Belize a couple years ago are already starting to pay dividends in terms of the size of the fish.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

brokeoff said:


> Is there a rod that most people associate with being a good wind rod? I switched from the Method/Salt/Xi3 to Solar/Exocett and am generally happy with the move. On windy days I think I could use a slightly faster rod.
> 
> Any ideas of a 10 wt that would handle an aggressive tapered line like the Punch? Something faster than a T&T but with more feel than a Method?


 I had the pleasure of having the Exocett 350ss & my 10wt Exocett in my boat on thanksgiving weekend. The ss is a more magnum style taper and is a complete beast in the wind and with heavy lines (grand slam/saltwater, punch & intermediates) it has more feel than a method for sure. If I had the $$$ i would have one in my quiver now. It is a little shorter, makes mangrove shots easier for close quarter combat, yet it can boom like a howitzer when you ask it. I’d definitely give it a look! Call joe Goodspeed at T&T. He typically has demos available. Tell him I sent ya!!


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Rick hambric said:


> I had the pleasure of having the Exocett 350ss & my 10wt Exocett in my boat on thanksgiving weekend. The ss is a more magnum style taper and is a complete beast in the wind and with heavy lines (grand slam/saltwater, punch & intermediates) it has more feel than a method for sure. If I had the $$$ i would have one in my quiver now. It is a little shorter, makes mangrove shots easier for close quarter combat, yet it can boom like a howitzer when you ask it. I’d definitely give it a look! Call joe Goodspeed at T&T. He typically has demos available. Tell him I sent ya!!


I was watching one on eBay last week @ $600. If it wasn't for all the Christmas presents I probably would have picked it up.

It would also be an ideal rod for tossing pigeon sized patterns into the rocks for stripers.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Well I have had my Salt HD out several times now. I love my Xi3s. I really like my Salt. But man this Salt HD rocks. And its a fish fighting tool. The first fish I landed on it was a 26# redfish. Put some serious heat on that fish. Paired with the RIO Winter Redfish....nice combination.


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## SCFLYFISH (Jun 13, 2017)

#9 with the line you are most comfortable with with that rod is all you need. Be ready to throw 12-15’ leaders that taper down to the 16# test. Patience, patience, keep your sh** together and don’t strip strike them like they are a Tarpon or redfish!!!! Hold on and hope for the best!!! Keep a positive attitude and keep it light with your guide.


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## vantagefish (Jul 16, 2014)

Slightly off topic but I was given a 2 vol series book “a passion for permit”. I’ve never caught a permit let alone on fly but now I have the bug!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Although $$$, the Asquith 9 or 10wt with SA Grand Slam is a good combination in wind and a very light and strong rod.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Just stumbled upon this thread while looking for something else.

I'm heading down on Sunday. Time to start getting focused.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

ifsteve said:


> Getting your fly out quickly is not that important for permit. At least no more so than most any flats fishing. Most shots at permit will be done with planning. Sure some will show up out of nowhere but in general most shots at permit are going to be to fish spotted at distance. You will have time to make a good presentation.
> 
> What is, at least to me, the most important attribute is to be able to deliver the fly extremely accurately. Next would be able to do so at fairly long distances. If I was going looking for a permit specific rod I would check out the new Salt HD in a 9 wt. But you need to try the rods that fit your casting style.


I agree with not having to quick cast. If your lucky you'll see them move across a flat. When I see 2 or more motoring around the flat I call them trains. If you can get in front of them you'll have time to cast
Rods? 9 wt. or 10 wt. If its windy or big flys


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2018)

Fished El Pescador a few years back. While I took a full arsenal of rods, the guide (Emir) had tons of flies. Same with Turneffe Island Lodge.

As far as rods for permit, a Scott Meridian or Sage HD Salt in a 9 or 10 should work fine. As others have said, pick a rod you cast well and one that enables you to present your fly accurately.


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