# 12v vs 24v Trollers



## firecat1981

So I've been planning on a 55lbs Ipilot TM on my FS17 build, but a friend seems to doubt anything but a 24v will work. I used a 45lbs on my current skiff without issue, the FS17 will only be maybe 200 lbs total heavier, but will have more windage due to the higher bow.
Thing is I really don't want more then 2 batteries on board. It's a smaller boat and space and weight penalties all count. 
So for the 12v 55lbs I figured a group 29-31, and a group 24 for the outboard and everything else. Anyone see an issue with this? 
Or should I consider the 24v with 2 smaller batteries? Or is there a way to run the set up in both 24v of one side and 12v off the other so you can still keep 2 batteries instead of 3?


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## Smackdaddy53

firecat1981 said:


> So I've been planning on a 55lbs Ipilot TM on my FS17 build, but a friend seems to doubt anything but a 24v will work. I used a 45lbs on my current skiff without issue, the FS17 will only be maybe 200 lbs total heavier, but will have more windage due to the higher bow.
> Thing is I really don't want more then 2 batteries on board. It's a smaller boat and space and weight penalties all count.
> So for the 12v 55lbs I figured a group 29-31, and a group 24 for the outboard and everything else. Anyone see an issue with this?
> Or should I consider the 24v with 2 smaller batteries? Or is there a way to run the set up in both 24v of one side and 12v off the other so you can still keep 2 batteries instead of 3?


Get an 11 pound 24v lithium battery, problem solved. 
Most guys will attest that if you plan on running a trolling motor in any kind of wind and/or current you are better off with a 24 volt 80# thrust.


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## firecat1981

How much does one cost, and where can I get it? Any issues with fire, or needing special chargers?


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## Smackdaddy53

There are a plethora of lithium batteries on the market now and yes they require a special charger. 11# might be stretching the truth but they are very light. I think most are 1/3 the weight of a sealed or lead acid battery. Fires were an issue at first but they got that issue resolved. Very pricey! Quick charging, light weight, battery life and the output is constant from start to finish, they don’t get weaker and weaker like other batteries, they just die.


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## yobata

No big deal, just $2200 for 1 battery: https://www.lithiumpros.com/product/lithium-pros-m3160-24-24v60ah-deep-cycle-lithium-ion-battery/


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## Smackdaddy53

yobata said:


> No big deal, just $2200 for 1 battery: https://www.lithiumpros.com/product/lithium-pros-m3160-24-24v60ah-deep-cycle-lithium-ion-battery/


Perfect for Chittum skiffs


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## firecat1981

yobata said:


> No big deal, just $2200 for 1 battery: https://www.lithiumpros.com/product/lithium-pros-m3160-24-24v60ah-deep-cycle-lithium-ion-battery/


60ah? So that's like 1.5 hours of hard run time?

Cheapest I've found is $900 for a 12v, so $1800 plus a special charger.

Sooooo, can 2 12v batteries be ran in series to the TM, but also one be used as a house battery?


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## Smackdaddy53

firecat1981 said:


> 60ah? So that's like 1.5 hours of hard run time?
> 
> Cheapest I've found is $900 for a 12v, so $1800 plus a special charger.
> 
> Sooooo, can 2 12v batteries be ran in series to the TM, but also one be used as a house battery?


There are more than that, keep looking.


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## yobata

Yeah, what Mac said. That was the first link I clicked on, thought it would at least give me a starting point for price, even it you can find it cheaper it's probably still pretty steep. How much would 2 odysseys weigh?


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## firecat1981

From all the links I clicked on the $900 12v is about as cheap as you can find in a decent ah battery. The lithium ion is a bust, also what's the point of gel batteries? They weigh just as much and have similar ah, but cost 3x more?


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## Vertigo

The big difference between 12 v and 24 v trolling motors is run time. Unless you fish in lots of wind and current, a 12 v motor will work fine with the exception that you'll have significantly less run time . On the plus side you'll have considerably less weight and expense. Consider the cost of a two vs. one battery charger in your equation. If you really feel the need for a 24 v TM, then the cheapest way to save weight would be to use a smaller battery for your motor. Most smaller outboards will start and run just fine with a motorcycle or lawn tractor battery.


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## Smackdaddy53

yobata said:


> Yeah, what Mac said. That was the first link I clicked on, thought it would at least give me a starting point for price, even it you can find it cheaper it's probably still pretty steep. How much would 2 odysseys weigh?


80-90#


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## Zika

Swapped my 55#, 12-volt Motor Guide xi5 over from the Micro to the Mosquito with no discernible difference. Still scoots even in wind and current. I'm running it off a dedicated Odyssey battery and use a solar panel to re-charge. Very pleased with the set-up.


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## Smackdaddy53

Zika said:


> Swapped my 55#, 12-volt Motor Guide xi5 over from the Micro to the Mosquito with no discernible difference. Still scoots even in wind and current. I'm running it off a dedicated Odyssey battery and use a solar panel to re-charge. Very pleased with the set-up.


Can you post links/photos of your solar panel setup? I have always wanted to do this, it just makes too much sense.


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## FlyBy

I just got a Riptide Ulterra 80# for my skiff. The 55# I have on it now does fine but I want the remote deploy/stow and trim. I ordered two Greenlife 50a li-ion batteries at 15# and $640 each.
These will replace a 57# Optima battery and the two together will be just a tad larger than the one Optima. Jumper the two for the trolling motor and run outboard starter and other house functions from one. Ordered a NOCO Genius charger and will have to charge each battery separately. Hope to get them installed next weekend. I'll pick up an additional 14# from the TM on the bow and lose 27# from batteries at rear of boat.


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## Vertigo

Group 29 battery - 60 lbs $90
12 v Minn Kota - 41 lbs $1050 (ipilot)
single bank 10 amp charger - 8 lbs $120
Totals: 109 lbs $1260

Group 29 battery X 2 - 120 lbs $180
24 v Minn Kota -81 lbs $2100 (ipilot)
dual bank 10 amp charger - 15 lbs $220
Totals: 216 lbs $2500

Conclusion: a 24 volt rig will add over 100 lbs of weight and cost about $1240 more, not including any extra cables and connectors. It will pull about .5 mph faster for almost twice as long. If you fish two days in a row without charging or fish in lots of wind and current, you might want the 24 volt rig. Otherwise, the 12 volt will do just fine and save lots of money and weight.


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## devrep

on that boat unless you are in strong current a lot 55lbs of thrust will be fine.


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## firecat1981

Thank you all! It looks like your thoughts align with mine, and I'll be going with a 55lbs Ipilot. I'll probably use one of the add a battery kits I've heard of so the stator will help charge both batteries. I think it puts out 30amps or so, so it should do nicely. Maybe add in a solar panel. Really though, if I can get 4 hours at low to medium speed out of it I think I'll be great.


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## Zika

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Can you post links/photos of your solar panel setup? I have always wanted to do this, it just makes too much sense.


Bought the Coleman 20 watt panel and a Coleman 30 amp digital charge controller from Tractor Supply.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/coleman-20-watt-crystalline-solar-panel?cm_vc=-10005

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/coleman-30-amp-digital-charge-controller?cm_vc=IOPDP1

Mounted the panel to the roof of my boat shed with aluminum strips. The panel has two short leads, so I bought some wire from Lowes and ran the leads to the digital controller, which is necessary to prevent overcharging. Make sure the controller has dual capability for lead acid or gel batteries. Scrap of 1X6 worked as a base for the controller and mounted to wall. Used some more wire to make jumper cables for the battery. Added heavy-duty spring alligator clips and red/black heat shrink on ends to ID connections. Screwed a couple wooden clothespins to base to hold the cables when not in use. I'll take a couple pix next week.

Attach leads to battery when I leave with the hatch propped open to vent. The controller tops the battery off but shuts down when fully charged. The panel doesn't charge at night, but will even on cloudy days. Between panel ($90), controller ($130), wire (<$10) and hardware I've got about $235 invested. But I chuckle every time I hook it up, knowing Duke Energy isn't getting a dime.

The drawback is the solar system doesn't go with the boat like a mounted charger will. But I had juice to spare with the Xi5 after fishing in the Everglades for a couple days. I didn't see any 115 ac outlets on any of the chickees or mangroves anyway.


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## firecat1981

Pretty cool.


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## RunningOnEmpty

I recently dropped just under 1k for trolling motor batteries. Laziness comes at a steep price.


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## Smackdaddy53

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I recently dropped just under 1k for trolling motor batteries. Laziness comes at a steep price.


Well you can’t brag about stuff without sharing what you got...


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## Smackdaddy53

Zika said:


> Bought the Coleman 20 watt panel and a Coleman 30 amp digital charge controller from Tractor Supply.
> 
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/coleman-20-watt-crystalline-solar-panel?cm_vc=-10005
> 
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/coleman-30-amp-digital-charge-controller?cm_vc=IOPDP1
> 
> Mounted the panel to the roof of my boat shed with aluminum strips. The panel has two short leads, so I bought some wire from Lowes and ran the leads to the digital controller, which is necessary to prevent overcharging. Make sure the controller has dual capability for lead acid or gel batteries. Scrap of 1X6 worked as a base for the controller and mounted to wall. Used some more wire to make jumper cables for the battery. Added heavy-duty spring alligator clips and red/black heat shrink on ends to ID connections. Screwed a couple wooden clothespins to base to hold the cables when not in use. I'll take a couple pix next week.
> 
> Attach leads to battery when I leave with the hatch propped open to vent. The controller tops the battery off but shuts down when fully charged. The panel doesn't charge at night, but will even on cloudy days. Between panel ($90), controller ($130), wire (<$10) and hardware I've got about $235 invested. But I chuckle every time I hook it up, knowing Duke Energy isn't getting a dime.
> 
> The drawback is the solar system doesn't go with the boat like a mounted charger will. But I had juice to spare with the Xi5 after fishing in the Everglades for a couple days. I didn't see any 115 ac outlets on any of the chickees or mangroves anyway.


I thought you had some sort of thin solar panel that unrolls on the boat deck and charges batteries while you fish...


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## RunningOnEmpty

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Well you can’t brag about stuff without sharing what you got...


3 group 27 AGM's. They hit you hard for that battery disposal and tax. My boat isn't a micro and it needs the big 36v motor in strong currents. I have yet to deploy my anchor when fishing the passes. I could get away with less in the backwaters.


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## Smackdaddy53

RunningOnEmpty said:


> 3 group 27 AGM's. They hit you hard for that battery disposal and tax. My boat isn't a micro and it needs the big 36v motor in strong currents. I have yet to deploy my anchor when fishing the passes. I could get away with less in the backwaters.


A few of my fishing buddies guide at the jetties and offshore on fairly calm days on 26’ boats and run MinnKota iPilot 112’s. We used to wear ourselves out trying to set anchor all the time in swift current 50-120’ deep and now just run the trolling motor. The anchor feature keeps that beast in position with no issues even offshore 30 miles over wrecks deep dropping for snapper.


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## RunningOnEmpty

I like having more power than needed. It's really nice when a big fish is dumping your spool.


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## firecat1981

That's what the power pole is for, lol.


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## verystrange

Why don't you guys tie the TM battery into the motor's charging system? I understand that you can run down the batteries to the point that the engine won't start but I have 2 group 27s in parallel so I have more amps available and I will never run the tm long enough in one spot to not be able to crank up. They also have charging relay switches that won't allow the starting battery to be used. I have ipilot 55 12v on my dolphin super skiff and it is more than enough even on strong tides and wind. One battery in back by motor, one in bow, tied together with #2 wire


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## firecat1981

That's kind of what the add-a-battery kit will do. It won't parallel them, but allows the outboard to charge which one needs to be.


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## FlyBy

firecat1981 said:


> 60ah? So that's like 1.5 hours of hard run time?
> 
> Cheapest I've found is $900 for a 12v, so $1800 plus a special charger.
> 
> Sooooo, can 2 12v batteries be ran in series to the TM, but also one be used as a house battery?


I just installed an Ulterra 80 on my Bossman Karma. I didn't want to add any weight so I used two 50 ah Lithium Ion batteries. Here's the breakdown:

Ulterra TM- $2150
Batteries- $1281
Marinco 70a plug and outlet- $22
Two NOCO genius 7200 chargers- $200

Built a battery tray since nothing commercially available in proper size










Two Li-Ion batteries weigh 30#, Optima 34 they replaced weighs 38#

Used 1 battery for 12v house and connected the two for the TM












Wiring:
Battery 1- Positive to battery disconnect switch
Battery disconnect switch to outboard
Battery disconnect switch to fuse panel
Positive to ground of battery 2
Ground to outboard
Ground to TM
Ground to fuse panel

Battery 2- Positive to 60 amp circuit breaker, which has cut-off switch
Circuit breaker to TM
Circuit breaker to Power pole Micros for cut-off
Ground to Micros for 12v

Hope this helps.


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## firecat1981

It does, but the cost is prohibitive for me. I think I've decided to go with a 55lbs 12v and run both my batteries parallel. Minn Kota's thrust calculator says for my weight I need a minimum of 30lbs, but more in heavy current. Since I'll mostly be in protected areas and only occasionally around a bridge I figure it's a good way to go. This gives my upwards of 200+amp hrs, which is way more then I need, and I have a little jump pack just in case i goof up.


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## Zika

Nice job on the battery tray and set-up, Roger. 

FC, I have a 55-pound thrust 12-volt Xi5 and it works fine on the Mosquito. Run it off a dedicated Odyssey battery and have yet to go below a full charge on the motor power indicator. Charge with a solar panel, so it's easy to always keep it topped off.


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## firecat1981

I was gonna make a separate post about the Ipilot vs Xi5. What Odessy battery are you running, and how do you like the TM?


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## RunningOnEmpty

verystrange said:


> Why don't you guys tie the TM battery into the motor's charging system? I understand that you can run down the batteries to the point that the engine won't start but I have 2 group 27s in parallel so I have more amps available and I will never run the tm long enough in one spot to not be able to crank up. They also have charging relay switches that won't allow the starting battery to be used. I have ipilot 55 12v on my dolphin super skiff and it is more than enough even on strong tides and wind. One battery in back by motor, one in bow, tied together with #2 wire


I was thinking about trying something like that but my trolling motor manual says something about it causing electrolysis issues.


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## DeepSouthFly

I have a 55 12 volt i pilot on my pro. windy days it struggles a little but I went with the 55 cause I didn't want 2 batteries up in my front hatch and I push pole 90% of the time so didn't want to put alot of money in a tm. got a last year's model i pilot on sale for 1k on e bay with 2 year warranty. I used it for a sold 5 hours in LA on the last day in 30 plus winds jumping around ponds and never got below 3 bars of voltage. running an optima battery.


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## Surferguy

Roger Cook, I have a few questions about your set-up as I'm thinking about doing very similar for a new boat I'm putting together that has a 24V (70lb thrust) TM and a brand new 2017 F70LA Yamaha. I would like to install only 2 each 12V batteries, primarily to save weight, and then tap off one of them for 12V to start the Yamaha and run bilge pump and other minor 12V loads (chartplotter). I understand that if I tie into the positive and neg leads on only one battery that I would only see 12V. My 2 batteries would be installed in the front compartment of the boat.
Questions:
1. My biggest concern is tying the Yamaha 12V leads into the 24V circuit as I sure as heck don't want to mess up the charging or electronics system on the new Yamaha. When the Yamaha is running and charging (which would back feed into the circuit), would this cause problems ?
2. Does it matter which of the 2 batteries I tap off of for the 12V ?
3. Why no fuse or circuit breaker at the battery for the 12V lead going to the outboard? (starting the outboard is probably the highest amp load any circuit will see). 
4. I would run #4 wire (about a 10' run) for the 12V circuit from the battery back to the side console, connect the cable leads from the outboard to this and also connect the switch/fuse panel to this circuit. Does this sound OK?
5. #4 wire for the 24V (about 6' run) to the outlet for the TM at front deck.

Not sure whether I'll go with group 24 (44 lbs) size or group 29 (63lb) batteries, I need to do a "float test" with the boat to see how the additional 38 lbs under the front deck affects the attitude. I'm not prepared to spend the coin now for lithium batteries, but maybe in a few years when the price comes down (hope).

My other option is to install a dedicated 3rd battery in the stern compartment for outboard starting and house loads, if I can't convince myself I won't screw up my brand new Yamaha. I'll simulate this option also when I do my "float test".

Thanks for your help/advise.


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## Zika

firecat1981 said:


> I was gonna make a separate post about the Ipilot vs Xi5. What Odessy battery are you running, and how do you like the TM?


Using a 34 series Odyssey battery for the Xi5, which I really like so far. Quiet, strong and easy on the juice.


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## FlyBy

Surferguy said:


> Roger Cook, I have a few questions about your set-up as I'm thinking about doing very similar for a new boat I'm putting together that has a 24V (70lb thrust) TM and a brand new 2017 F70LA Yamaha. I would like to install only 2 each 12V batteries, primarily to save weight, and then tap off one of them for 12V to start the Yamaha and run bilge pump and other minor 12V loads (chartplotter). I understand that if I tie into the positive and neg leads on only one battery that I would only see 12V. My 2 batteries would be installed in the front compartment of the boat.
> Questions:
> 1. My biggest concern is tying the Yamaha 12V leads into the 24V circuit as I sure as heck don't want to mess up the charging or electronics system on the new Yamaha. When the Yamaha is running and charging (which would back feed into the circuit), would this cause problems ?
> 2. Does it matter which of the 2 batteries I tap off of for the 12V ?
> 3. Why no fuse or circuit breaker at the battery for the 12V lead going to the outboard? (starting the outboard is probably the highest amp load any circuit will see).
> 4. I would run #4 wire (about a 10' run) for the 12V circuit from the battery back to the side console, connect the cable leads from the outboard to this and also connect the switch/fuse panel to this circuit. Does this sound OK?
> 5. #4 wire for the 24V (about 6' run) to the outlet for the TM at front deck.
> 
> Not sure whether I'll go with group 24 (44 lbs) size or group 29 (63lb) batteries, I need to do a "float test" with the boat to see how the additional 38 lbs under the front deck affects the attitude. I'm not prepared to spend the coin now for lithium batteries, but maybe in a few years when the price comes down (hope).
> 
> My other option is to install a dedicated 3rd battery in the stern compartment for outboard starting and house loads, if I can't convince myself I won't screw up my brand new Yamaha. I'll simulate this option also when I do my "float test".
> 
> Thanks for your help/advise.


1. If you connect positive and negative from the outboard to the same battery it will be 12v. Your outboard will charge the "house battery" but not the other. No problems there. When I charged my batteries Sat. night the "house battery charged in 38 minutes and the other took 2 hrs. and 20 minutes.
2. Doesn't matter which battery you use for your "house battery", pick one. I have a positive lead from my "non-house" battery to the circuit breaker, which goes to my TM and the power poles. The negative lead from the power poles comes from the same battery for 12v. the negative lead for the TM goes to the "house battery" for 24v. 
3. I don't remember ever seeing a circuit breaker for an outboard starter. I guess they don't present a danger.
4. Sounds right. You need a battery cut-off for the outboard and fuse panel and a means to cut power to the power pole and TM. I use a 60a circuit breaker with a push button disconnect. I fear another ******* with a power pole, driving behind me, grabbing his remote and telling his buddy "Hey, watch this". Or me accidentally hitting the down button on my remote while driving. Happened to a friend and when he got home he had the world's shortest power poles.
5. #8 wire should be sufficient, based on the table from Minn-Kota. That's what I have.


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