# POLL - Should there be minium required safety and rules of the road education for boaters?



## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

ABSOLUTELY!!! It might be a pain for experienced boaters who operate their craft in an intelligent & safe manner BUT, if ALL boat operators are mandated to pass a test, MAYBE just MAYBE, we who are responsible operators will have a markedly decreased chance of being maimed or killed by inexperience and/or stupidity!! IMHO. [smiley=1-mmm.gif]


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

In Alabama you have to get a "Vessel" stamp on your driver's license. The test is actually pretty hard, but idiots find a way to get one anyway.

I don't really get the test though. It has questions ranging everywhere from PWC all the way up to the # and types of emergency floatation needed on Yachts. I al VERY unlikely to ever own a PWC and pretty DAMN sure that I will never own a yacht!


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/One-Drowns-Another-Missing-in-River-Boating-Accident-208838181.html

One Drowns Another Missing in River Boating Accident

The two had gone fishing Thursday afternoon and when they failed to come back by the evening a search was begun.

Calhoun County Sheriff Office says the grandfather, Eugene Jacobs took his grand daughter Alayha Jacobs fishing on a house boat. They left the Bristol Landing in Liberty County. *Neither was wearing a life jacket.*

Family members found the young girl’s body around 8:00 Thursday night when they went searching after the two didn’t come home.

The search for the missing man, Eugene Jacobs, continues.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Yes new boaters should get some education before operating a boat. With today's technology online learning is easy and relatively inexpensive compared to what was available 10 or 20 years ago.


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## cvilt (May 31, 2010)

You did not include and answer with a simple NO so I did not vote. My waterway is as safe as I make it. The water is slowly losing the freedom. I remember feeling like I was free on the water, now there are getting to be as many signs on the water as on a road and so many different police agencies on the water it is rare to go out and not see someone pulled over. I understand we need some rules and signs but when is enough enough. My wife just completed a CG boating course at our club because she wanted to feel safer and learn, it gave her confidence but it was voluntary. I only believe in evolution when it comes to survival of the fittest. I have had enough regulation. Sorry for the rant but we need to keep our eyes peeled to be safe and help those in need.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

We can't fix stupid boaters but we can fix ignorant boaters by mandating attendance to a USCG or Power Squadron course. The "war stories" are worth the time because it shows one how fast --it can hit the fan.


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## cvilt (May 31, 2010)

With all due respect Capt. Jan unless lifejackets are mandated a course would not have saved their precious lives. I cannot imagine the sorrow that family went through and don't want to think of their last moments. That being said people don't wear seat belts it is law and lunacy not too. I have worn mine since 1982 after seeing a tragic accident and it saved my and my wife's life 3 years ago. I do not wear a life jacket unless it is ugly on the water but make children wear them and offer one to all that ride with me. I am considering getting some self inflating vest because I will not wear a piece of foam around my core in 90 degrees. Maybe I am getting carried away but I am fed up being told what I can and cannot do because of some trying to protect me from myself. I am a grown man with grown children and accept the consequences of my decisions and avoid those who don't.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

No test or training is going to trump stupidity, immaturity and poor judgement.  If the goal is to make boating safer, strict enforcement of regulations, severe penalties for violations, and way, way more enforcement on the water will be required.  

Does requiring driver's licences ever stop some people from driving drunk or recklessly?

BTW, it's "seem", not "seam", and there's no option for voting "No, passing a test won't make people behave any differently."


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## Grant (May 6, 2009)

I'd be for it if they'd include licensing fees and boating safety courses for non motorized craft like canoes and kayaks.

I'd like to see a Captain license requirement for "Eco tour guides" using multiple craft.

fltsfshr


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

> Boater Education
> Get Your Boater Safety Education Card - Did you know that anyone born on or after January 1, 1988 must have a Boating Safety Education ID Card to legally operate a boat in Florida? Read this to find out more about what the law requires and how to get your card.


http://www.myfwc.com/boating/safety-education/


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

thats gonna be a long line.


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## nightfly (Jul 7, 2011)

I think there needs to be some kind of training for people who are new boat owners. There is always going to be stupid people out there. But when there are new boat owners and they get set loose with a key to a boat and they don't even know what side of the channel marker to be on that can be dangerous. And what they do at the boat ramp is another story.  when you go to register a boat they know if you ever had a boat registered in your name,how long, where, etc. that should be how they decide who takes some kind of training. I don't think every boat owner needs it. If you have been boating for a while your generally more safe and know what your doing.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> With all due respect Capt. Jan unless lifejackets are mandated a course would not have saved their precious lives.


I agree, just as drivers lisc. does not prevent tragic accidents on our road ways.  Yesterday morning 4 of the 5 lanes on I-95 were shutdown due to a fatal accident. A young man driving too fast clipped a semi and the car went into a barrel roll. The driver was ejected from the car due to a failure to wear his seatbelt.

Point is (in my humble opinion) not enough education is practiced on our waterways. 

Best Regards,
Capt. Jan


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## --AL-- (Nov 28, 2012)

I voted yes. Although I feel like pathfinder15 in terms of excessive signs, enforcement etc., there are insane people out there who also own boats. I did not take the boat out Memorial day (and avoid regattas and that sort of thing) for that very reason.
If it's one bit of "education" that every boater should know is whether you are the _stand-on_ vessel or the _give-way_ vessel. This is fundamental in avoiding collisions and so many out there just do whatever.


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## 'Nano-Skiff' (Aug 27, 2012)

I just want the larger boats to stay on plane while I'm fishing instead of slowing down making a HUGE wake. If you are slowing to be considerate then slow to idle, otherwise just keep going. That's it for me!


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

Voted yes. Things aren't like they used to be. Far too many boaters with little to no common sense are piloting vessels with no brakes, not to mention the lack of hand eye and timing.
I swear, it gets worse every year as more of them become empowered by a few months of rentals and boat sharing programs. Used to be they'd spend a few years with a guide learning the water before moving on to their own boat. Now they have the internet to tell them how to do it and what they need to do it. Ain't it great?


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## 'Nano-Skiff' (Aug 27, 2012)

Should have to get a 12-14' boat for a year minimum, then move up to whatever they want so they will respect the small guys.


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## cvilt (May 31, 2010)

Oh my, what will be left to do without permission and more fees. A boat drivers license and mandatory minimum ins. sounds great. And then built in life jackets similar to airbags. I guess I am old enough to remember freedom


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## Parrboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Amen 15t. No more rules


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> Oh my, what will be left to do without permission and more fees. A boat drivers license and mandatory minimum ins. sounds great. And then built in life jackets similar to airbags. I guess I am old enough to remember freedom


I'm old enough to remember personal responsibility. Oh how things have changed.


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## cvilt (May 31, 2010)

I completely understand we need rules of law and order but the responsibility of societies problems need to start with us. We are capable of correcting what we have failed to do. Starting with the younger generation and our friends. I believe the tide of responsibility we have surrendered to government is the reason we have so little personal responsibility. It is my opinion Laws and regulation don't correct the issues we are facing on almost every front. Forgive me if this comes across personal or harsh but I have had about all I can and will resist the simplest nudge to more regulation by the well intended.


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## Chevystroked383 (Apr 12, 2011)

I recently took a captains liscnese corse and I tell you there is a lot of rules I never thought of I think it would be a great idea if the coast guard had a class for everyone on the water to take it would make it a lot safer


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

Here is an online course that google archived: 

http://www.boat-ed.com/fl/handbook/toc.htm

I read it all, everyone should. For FL laws...


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## Alex4188 (Mar 18, 2014)

yes and they should have to have a pre set amount of documented time operating a small vessle 16' or less in length. Experience is the best teacher and after they almost get swamped the will become more courtious boaters when they MOVE UP TO a larger craft. Why is it some one has to go to school, get tested to get a license to operate a semi but any A** with money can go and buy a huge boat with no experience on the water other than having been in a pool and operate it that day! That is just insane! humm need a license to operate a motor cycle, a car, a semi, a plane, a train, even a crane but not a 40' boat!


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

A question I was once asked..... 


What do the red and green markers mean?


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> A question I was once asked.....
> 
> 
> What do the red and green markers mean?


Shallow area duh!!
Do not go between them


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## Rod_Gentry (Jun 26, 2014)

I didn't vote for any of the options because No it is safe is not the only reason to vote no.

Up here in Canada we had a tragic case where a kid drove his jetski at a canoe, cut the throttle and swerved, thereby killing several in the canoe.

In order to preserve the lucrative jetski industry, it was decided all boaters, even those in wilderness lakes with 2.5 hp motors on 25 foot sailboats needed some education. 

Canada does excellent education programs and has a more highly educated populace than the US. This was the first online sample test question I read for the license (paraphrased):

"What charts must a boater carry by law for his local waters"

The answer was something like this:

"Charts for all the waters he will use, unless his boat is under 400 000 tons (or some such) or he has local knowledge of the waters..."

Time well spent, right?

The mere fact that a course or license is required does not mean it will be sensible, or that even if sensible, that it will do anything whatsoever to deal with the realities of the waterways.

It can be guaranteed to have a variety of other negative effects. 

- Like discouraging boaters from taking up the activity (often an objective of established boaters, guides and professionals but not a legitimate function of government)

- Putting in place a bureaucracy to run everything, or enlarging, and empowering the existing one

- It is likely to be one size fits all for the more lucrative elements of the activity, so it will be hostile to fringe activities, like microskiffs.

- Or it won't apply to microskiffs, and thus what are we talking about.

Etc...


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## ELucas (Jan 22, 2012)

Rod_Gentry said:


> I didn't vote for any of the options because No it is safe is not the only reason to vote no.
> 
> Up here in Canada we had a tragic case where a kid drove his jetski at a canoe, cut the throttle and swerved, thereby killing several in the canoe.
> 
> ...


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## ELucas (Jan 22, 2012)

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

E.


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## ol' superskiff (Oct 22, 2015)

ELucas said:


> YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> E.


How about at the very least when coming head on with another vessel that you pass each other port to port, how hard is that to figure out?


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## ELucas (Jan 22, 2012)

its funny how smart people that have been driving automobiles for 30 years turn into complete idiots when they get on the water. Its easy, stay to the right!

You do not have to be a licensesd


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## Ocean Breeze (Dec 18, 2015)

I've been boating for years and took a United States Power Squadron course when I was like 9. After all these years I decided to get a refresher. I brought my wife to the Cocoa Beach Sail and Power Squadrons class. When we did this my wife got her Florida boating card (I had it already). I liked it so much I joined the club and found out all the other classes the offer. So far we have taken Seamanship (more in depth than the FL boating course), Piloting (charting), Advanced Piloting (Charting with wind and currents and instrument failures), and now were in a course called Junior Navigation (Navigating offshore by using a sextant with the sun) and the next class will be Navigation (Navigating offshore by the sun and stars using the sextant). They are all 8-15 week courses and are really interesting.
The short answer it YES boating courses should be required.


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## FliFisha (Jan 10, 2016)

Without a doubt!!!!!!!!!


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## barrell (May 17, 2016)

iMacattack said:


> As we come into Memorial Day weekend many of us will be shareing our waterways with many other boaters. Statically speaking this is one of the deadliest weekends on the water. Should there be minium education and licensing requirement for boat operators?
> 
> Cheers,
> Capt. Jan


No, Boating course has been required here in Nj for ten years for all operators. Yet people still sometimes drive like idiots .Jetskiers and go fast boats seem to be the worst but all boat sizes including kayakers sometimes have no common sense. You cant legislate common sense. Alcohol is the problem. I don't allow anyone to bring any on board my 25 footer when fishing. Booze cruise the river slow ,Im ok with it, but never when we will be running hard and fast offshore.


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## barrell (May 17, 2016)

barrell said:


> No, Boating course has been required here in Nj for ten years for all operators. Yet people still sometimes drive like idiots .Jetskiers and go fast boats seem to be the worst but all boat sizes including kayakers sometimes have no common sense. You cant legislate common sense. Alcohol is the problem. I don't allow anyone to bring any on board my 25 footer when fishing. Booze cruise the river slow ,Im ok with it, but never when we will be running hard and fast offshore.


In Nj they used it as an opportunity to tax you some more. It was $50 to get the card from the state plus you had to pay to take the course.


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## alex1988 (Nov 12, 2009)

Absolutely, an examination should be required in order to have the privilege to operate a motor vessel.
I believe there should be two tests... but this is my opinion.

The first should be a boat handling test on the water, demonstrating that you are capable of docking a vessel, safely navigating a vessel, and appear to be competent at the helm of your vessel in case an emergency should arise. All of this is done after a written examination is passed.

The other test should be for vessel operators who wish to take their boats offshore, past 12 nautical miles from shore (anything under that a vhf is capable of reaching shore side in case of a distress situation.) This test should focus on navigation, general seamanship skills, and at sea survival techniques.


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## jupiter934 (Jan 6, 2013)

You can not regulate common sense into people. I see licensed "Captains" making unsafe decisions all the time. A license does not make you a safe operator.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

jupiter934 said:


> You can not regulate common sense into people. I see licensed "Captains" making unsafe decisions all the time. A license does not make you a safe operator.


Agreed
However one can regulate ignorance out of people.


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## Charles Argenbright (Jun 1, 2017)

cvilt said:


> You did not include and answer with a simple NO so I did not vote. My waterway is as safe as I make it. The water is slowly losing the freedom. I remember feeling like I was free on the water, now there are getting to be as many signs on the water as on a road and so many different police agencies on the water it is rare to go out and not see someone pulled over. I understand we need some rules and signs but when is enough enough. My wife just completed a CG boating course at our club because she wanted to feel safer and learn, it gave her confidence but it was voluntary. I only believe in evolution when it comes to survival of the fittest. I have had enough regulation. Sorry for the rant but we need to keep our eyes peeled to be safe and help those in need.


One issue is this: If we give the power to regulate it to the Gub-Ment...it will be costly and krazy. Some donors will get involved and there will be costs and fines that make money for the wrong people. I don't trust our Federal Gub-Ment enough to give them any more power.


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## Charles Argenbright (Jun 1, 2017)

iMacattack said:


> As we come into Memorial Day weekend many of us will be shareing our waterways with many other boaters. Statically speaking this is one of the deadliest weekends on the water. Should there be minium education and licensing requirement for boat operators?
> 
> Cheers,
> Capt. Jan


I think if you were born after 1988 you have to take an 8 hour class on line to get a license. I would not want to see new laws but I would like to see some classes on boating courtesy and best boating suggestions for people. The worst people with boats are the ones at the ramp on the weekend and know nothing about boating, just bought their boat, already drunk and stupid. Rude and in a hurry...Maybe good boaters can take pics of their boats, tags and rudeness and then have the Gub-Ment call them and force them into a class. But not us good boaters.


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## Dschouest42 (Jul 12, 2017)

In Lousisiana, anyone born before some date (1970s I think) has to take a Wildife and Fisheries certified course and carry a card on them to verify they completed it. I took it at the age of 13, and I had to take it again at 23 for a job. Im glad its required. Now if LWF can just start cracking down on people using too big a motor on the WMAs...


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries can not even crack down on themselves, much less be bothered with enforcing WMA rules.


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## Dschouest42 (Jul 12, 2017)

It sucks. I fish the PAC WMA almost exclusively. And the amount of 150 and 200 horse engines I see back there angers me to no end. Especially when they blast thru no wake zones


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Dschouest42 said:


> In Lousisiana, anyone born before some date (1970s I think) has to take a Wildife and Fisheries certified course and carry a card on them to verify they completed it. I took it at the age of 13, and I had to take it again at 23 for a job. Im glad its required. Now if LWF can just start cracking down on people using too big a motor on the WMAs...


Louisiana..


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

jmrodandgun said:


> Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries can not even crack down on themselves, much less be bothered with enforcing WMA rules.


The state is broke..


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## mluman83 (Jun 18, 2016)

Yup.... and there should be a courtesy course as well. I can't tell you how many times I have been out with someone on the platform with the pole in hand and someone of the front platform with a stripping bucket and long rod in hand when someone comes screaming by blowing out the flat. And I'm talking within a few hundred feet.


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## Capt Rhan (Nov 8, 2017)

Grant said:


> I'd be for it if they'd include licensing fees and boating safety courses for non motorized craft like canoes and kayaks.
> 
> I'd like to see a Captain license requirement for "Eco tour guides" using multiple craft.
> 
> fltsfshr


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## Capt Rhan (Nov 8, 2017)

If your a tour or fishing guide on any boat you MUST have a USCG captain's licence weather on salt or in a pond mine is a masters


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## Chris R (Dec 13, 2017)

Definitely need a training and license requirement in addition to strict penalties especially for those idiot jet skiers. I fish from Ft Myers south and nothing worse than being in the backcountry in the mangroves and some person on a jet ski decides they want to do circles at 50 mph. I hat those ....


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## Capt Rhan (Nov 8, 2017)

Chris I feel for you man if you take a picture of the offender and his vessel number while he is doing his offence You can turn him in to the Fish and Wildlife and they will probably give him a warning or worse if they have done this before. There isn't anything they can do if they are just breezing through unless they are in a wake or speed or Manatee safe zone. If that is the case they can ticket them or impound their vessel. ( or maybe drag them in the mangroves and slap them around some ) tahheeeee
Remember though they bought their boat to have fun like you did. Don't let them ruin your day though. I HAVE made my own bs mistakes as well.
I like this site " THANKS "


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## Will Morrow (Dec 25, 2017)

Alex4188 said:


> yes and they should have to have a pre set amount of documented time operating a small vessle 16' or less in length. Experience is the best teacher and after they almost get swamped the will become more courtious boaters when they MOVE UP TO a larger craft. Why is it some one has to go to school, get tested to get a license to operate a semi but any A** with money can go and buy a huge boat with no experience on the water other than having been in a pool and operate it that day! That is just insane! humm need a license to operate a motor cycle, a car, a semi, a plane, a train, even a crane but not a 40' boat!


Lol sportfisher abt flipped me no joke I fell and busted my knee because I was on the casting platform


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## Capt Rhan (Nov 8, 2017)

What you all are talking about is a boater safety course. I have one on CD I got from USCG it was only a couple bucks. I keep it handy f0r my captains to review every year. It keeps all of un up to date as a reminder of our duty as a Capt.


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## CaptDanS (Oct 26, 2017)

Yes ABSOLUTELY


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Well in se Louisiana no mud boat tiller operators or commercial fisherman tillers use lanyards or life jackets n the la wildlife does not enforce the laws.


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## AggieFlyGuy (Jun 12, 2018)

I think we simply have to face the reality of the situation and that is the fact that we now have far too many people operating boats than ever before to ignore the serious issues this creates. When the automobile was new and the standard mode of transportation was the horse, you could simply buy a Model T and off you went. The cars were slow, "traffic" and vehicle congestion was non-existent. When this changed and the automobile became the principal mode of transportation, restrictions and training/licensing requirements followed. It simply became necessary to protect the public at large.

When I started boating, most of my friends learned using a jon boat with their father or grandfather supervising. Shallow water boats were a relatively new thing and I went decades without seeing an outboard larger than 150 HP on the bays. Most of the people you encountered on the water were life-long watermen. Today, any one can finance a boat. Many of these boats are insanely fast and are actively marketed to "run anywhere." People with no experience whatsoever are buying boats en masse on little more than a whim. What we are left with is a complete free-for-all, and not in a good way.

I think a basic boating course (and basic boating license) should be a pre-requisite to operating a boat on public water ways. When I say "basic," I mean just that. The essential rules of the water and the basic courtesies we should all know and respect. I would love for the water ways to look like they did in the 1970s, but that ship has sailed.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

AggieFlyGuy said:


> I think we simply have to face the reality of the situation and that is the fact that we now have far too many people operating boats than ever before to ignore the serious issues this creates. When the automobile was new and the standard mode of transportation was the horse, you could simply buy a Model T and off you went. The cars were slow, "traffic" and vehicle congestion was non-existent. When this changed and the automobile became the principal mode of transportation, restrictions and training/licensing requirements followed. It simply became necessary to protect the public at large.
> 
> When I started boating, most of my friends learned using a jon boat with their father or grandfather supervising. Shallow water boats were a relatively new thing and I went decades without seeing an outboard larger than 150 HP on the bays. Most of the people you encountered on the water were life-long watermen. Today, any one can finance a boat. Many of these boats are insanely fast and are actively marketed to "run anywhere." People with no experience whatsoever are buying boats en masse on little more than a whim. What we are left with is a complete free-for-all, and not in a good way.
> 
> I think a basic boating course (and basic boating license) should be a pre-requisite to operating a boat on public water ways. When I say "basic," I mean just that. The essential rules of the water and the basic courtesies we should all know and respect. I would love for the water ways to look like they did in the 1970s, but that ship has sailed.


I’m sure you, me and a lot of others would love there to be a more stringent process for people to be able to operate a boat or even a vehicle n public roads. Have you seen the idiots supposedly running the country right now?


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## HeaveToo (11 mo ago)

In Virginia there is a mandatory boater education class you must take and you have to carry a card to operate a boat.

That being said, it hasn’t kept the idiots off of the water. Same thing as the laws that prevent BUI haven’t stopped that either.


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## Halen (7 mo ago)

I just returned from fishing Rockport this past weekend and after watching the knuckleheads out joyriding I'd be 176% behind stiffer requirements for boating. Mandatory classes with recertification would go a long way in helping to improve boating safety.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

I’d be a fan of states deciding on whether or not to implement a written (non practical) test before you can legally register a boat or an airplane. An online test based on what kind of boat you purchased… and it discounts the price of your registration if you also complete the “boating etiquette” course. I know @Smackdaddy wants to learn how to appropriately drive a jetski, but him learning how to drive a Bay Liner would be sufficient.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Halen said:


> I just returned from fishing Rockport this past weekend and after watching the knuckleheads out joyriding I'd be 176% behind stiffer requirements for boating. Mandatory classes with recertification would go a long way in helping to improve boating safety.


yep, I agree. It won’t prevent all the googans from the googanry, but it’ll definitely help save some lives.


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## Halen (7 mo ago)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> yep, I agree. It won’t prevent all the googans from the googanry, but it’ll definitely help save some lives.


Exactly. This past Saturday I watched a crew trying to get their boat launched, it was like the Keystone cops running in circles. I'm sure they've never been trained in how to properly launch a boat. The other thing that seems to be lacking is simple boating etiquette when people are on the water fishing.


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## Maverick MA (Jun 16, 2020)

More enforcement, less rules. Rules without enforcement only negatively impact those who follow the laws anyway. Stupid, lawless people will remain ignorant even if they attend a class. Folks who respect the law take the time to learn the rules already. 
So, let’s solve for the problem. The problem is that stupid people do stupid stuff. How do you fix stupid? Consequences. One form of consequence is injury and death from your (or others)ignorant, poor, or misguided decisions. That’s pretty extreme. A ticket, jail time, community service is a mild proxy for the true consequence and is a form of mercy, not justice, to redirect an ignorant person before they get the true consequence. 
Want to fix the problem? More enforcement of reasonable laws with very significant consequences. Word gets around. People think twice when they know there is a likely consequence (everyone slow down where they know there is a speed trap).


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Maverick MA said:


> More enforcement, less rules. Rules without enforcement only negatively impact those who follow the laws anyway. Stupid, lawless people will remain ignorant even if they attend a class. Folks who respect the law take the time to learn the rules already.
> So, let’s solve for the problem. The problem is that stupid people do stupid stuff. How do you fix stupid? Consequences. One form of consequence is injury and death from your (or others)ignorant, poor, or misguided decisions. That’s pretty extreme. A ticket, jail time, community service is a mild proxy for the true consequence and is a form of mercy, not justice, to redirect an ignorant person before they get the true consequence.
> Want to fix the problem? More enforcement of reasonable laws with very significant consequences. Word gets around. People think twice when they know there is a likely consequence (everyone slow down where they know there is a speed trap).


I agree that more enforcement and heavier consequences are necessary. Some sort of mandatory training/licensing is also needed as I think that some boaters don’t even know that they’re breaking rules. Why should boating be any less restrictive than driving on the roadways? No lanes, no signage, boats going 100+!😳


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## Maverick MA (Jun 16, 2020)

The Fin said:


> I agree that more enforcement and heavier consequences are necessary. Some sort of mandatory training/licensing is also needed as I think that some boaters don’t even know that they’re breaking rules. Why should boating be any less restrictive than driving on the roadways? No lanes, no signage, boats going 100+!😳


In most cases, I'd probably disagree with you on "mandatory" learning, but since COVID and in some really congested areas, you are probably right. When you can rent a jet ski or boat with absolutely no experience, no training, and have 100+ HP behind you, then go out into congested narrow and confusing channels, you are asking for trouble. If nothing else, making it a little less easy to get onto the water with zero experience might reduce problems. I visited Bonita earlier this year and we rented a pontoon. As we loaded up, I watched two boats from that same rental company pull out, completely miss the channel (in spite of very clear instructions), and end up aground. I had to lead them out, but in the back of my mind I was thinking "what the heck is going to happen when they don't have someone to follow."

I don't know what the answer is, but more enforcement of existing laws is the first step. Reduced access to more boat than you know how to operate may be a required solution. Folks just have more money than brains these days.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Maverick MA said:


> In most cases, I'd probably disagree with you on "mandatory" learning, but since COVID and in some really congested areas, you are probably right. When you can rent a jet ski or boat with absolutely no experience, no training, and have 100+ HP behind you, then go out into congested narrow and confusing channels, you are asking for trouble. If nothing else, making it a little less easy to get onto the water with zero experience might reduce problems. I visited Bonita earlier this year and we rented a pontoon. As we loaded up, I watched two boats from that same rental company pull out, completely miss the channel (in spite of very clear instructions), and end up aground. I had to lead them out, but in the back of my mind I was thinking "what the heck is going to happen when they don't have someone to follow."
> 
> I don't know what the answer is, but more enforcement of existing laws is the first step. Reduced access to more boat than you know how to operate may be a required solution. Folks just have more money than brains these days.


Yeah, can you ever imagine an auto rental company just handing over the keys to Corvettes, Ferraris, etc. without proper licensing?


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Interesting topic I do feel there should be some mandatory courses, even if its just online to know the rules and basics. We have to take a course to operate a boat in ENP so something like that would be a good start. I've never had any issues and I've been on the water my whole life. I started with a small 12ft tiller and have piloted 30+ft center consoles. But like most of you here, I have some common sense, respect for others and the water, and I'm very aware of my limitations. Sometimes we take it for granted just how difficult it is to drive a boat, just take a look at any South Florida boat ramp and you'll see. I remember one time I asked my brother in law that only has minor experience driving a boat out in the open help me retrieve my boat and it was a hot mess. I ended up having to do it myself. There is a learning curve especially with parking a boat. Now throw on top of that all the rules and regulations and people are just lost out there. Sprinkle in some stupidity and reckless abandon and now you're asking for trouble. 

On the flip side, I've seen lots of kids that can drive a boat a lot better than most of the idiots around here so......


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## Maverick MA (Jun 16, 2020)

rovster said:


> Interesting topic I do feel there should be some mandatory courses, even if its just online to know the rules and basics. We have to take a course to operate a boat in ENP so something like that would be a good start. I've never had any issues and I've been on the water my whole life. * I started with a small 12ft tiller and have piloted 30+ft center consoles. * But like most of you here, I have some common sense, respect for others and the water, and I'm very aware of my limitations. Sometimes we take it for granted just how difficult it is to drive a boat, just take a look at any South Florida boat ramp and you'll see. I remember one time I asked my brother in law that only has minor experience driving a boat out in the open help me retrieve my boat and it was a hot mess. I ended up having to do it myself. There is a learning curve especially with parking a boat. Now throw on top of that all the rules and regulations and people are just lost out there. Sprinkle in some stupidity and reckless abandon and now you're asking for trouble.
> 
> On the flip side, I've seen lots of kids that can drive a boat a lot better than most of the idiots around here so......


This is the key here. My son recently bought his own 14' boat, and I've gotten to re-live all the learnings I forgot I'd gotten in my own journey. It's amazing how much trouble you can get into in a small boat with very little HP, so it shouldn't be surprising that folks with big boats and big HP (and no experience) get into big trouble. 

I don't have the answer, but this is one of those rare times when I MIGHT support government intervention (i.e. required class, license, etc). Engines are bigger, boats are more accessible, money is apparently growing on trees, and the waterways are VERY crowded. I hate the idea of boating licenses, and everything the government gets involved in gets screwed up, but it might be time to consider some regulation (I think I just threw up in my mouth when I typed that).


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## AggieFlyGuy (Jun 12, 2018)

Good comments here. This is the classic "tragedy of the commons" most of us studied in college economics courses. The absence of regulations requires enforcement of boating norms and training to fall on other users of the resource. That worked when the users were few, local and there was an established pecking order based upon knowledge and experience. This "system" fails entirely when the resource becoomes flooded with people and there is no option to self-regulate. The state must step in when danger to the public and resource becomes not only likely, but probable. I am a libertarian to the core, so I hate even saying the words I just typed. However, I see the reality of the situation in real time whenever I launch my boat and shove off. It is an absolute miracle tragic and wholly avoidable deaths are not more common. Some times I cannot believe my own eyes.

However, the issue of _enforecement_ is key here. In the last twenty years, "no-run" or "Wade-Paddle-Pole only" areas popped up in the Nine Mile Hole on the Upper Laguna Madre and in Redfish Bay near AP/Rockport/Port A. Initially, people either avoided the areas or were at least respectfully careful. Then everyone realized that no one was watching or policing these areas. In short order, the designated areas were wholly and completely ignored. The State (TPWD) did not possess the mandate, the manpower or the political desire to take a hard stand with an eye on protecting the critical seagrass beds those no motor zones were specifically intended to protect. This became something worse and more offensive than simple window washing - it became a well known farce, which hurt other reasonable conservation measures. When these "wade-paddle-pole" rules were openly ignored on the Aransas Wildlife Refuge, however, EVERYONE was punished by a complete shut down of all access to the fisheries located within park boundaries. _This_ was a tragedy and I can draw a direct line of correlation to the failed policy directives of TPWD when there was an opportunity to spread the message and solve the problem before it became an epidemic.


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## Maverick MA (Jun 16, 2020)

AggieFlyGuy said:


> However, the issue of _enforecement_ is key here. In the last twenty years, "no-run" or "Wade-Paddle-Pole only" areas popped up in the Nine Mile Hole on the Upper Laguna Madre and in Redfish Bay near AP/Rockport/Port A. Initially, people either avoided the areas or were at least respectfully careful. Then everyone realized that no one was watching or policing these areas. In short order, the designated areas were wholly and completely ignored. The State (TPWD) did not possess the mandate, the manpower or the political desire to take a hard stand with an eye on protecting the critical seagrass beds those no motor zones were specifically intended to protect. This became something worse and more offensive than simple window washing - it became a well known farce, which hurt other reasonable conservation measures. When these "wade-paddle-pole" rules were openly ignored on the Aransas Wildlife Refuge, however, EVERYONE was punished by a complete shut down of all access to the fisheries located within park boundaries. _This_ was a tragedy and I can draw a direct line of correlation to the failed policy directives of TPWD when there was an opportunity to spread the message and solve the problem before it became an epidemic.


Bud, you NAILED it. When laws get on the books that are either unreasonable, unnecessary, or unenforced, it has a deteriorating effect on the adherence to other laws.


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