# TEXAS NON-Tunnel skiffs running Cavitation Plates



## Guest

Are you having cavitation problems? Just curious why your looking into a plate? I mentioned on another post, some boats do better with them, some do not... tunnel or no tunnel.


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## Redfisher80

Here is a pic of my skiff (non-tunnel). I ordered mine from trans sport boats.....great cav plates....they literally “hold” the water around the prop! Bone stock by adding the plate, I was able to raise my motor all the way up on the jack plate and keep the bite. Without it, raised all the way up, I could barely get on plane and could not do more than 25mph with my Suzuki 60 4 stroke. With it I could get on plane and raise it 2”-3” and get max speed.....34.5mph on my 18’ canyon bay!

Well worth the $200 in my opinion.
One note...I had it gel coated at my local fiberglass shop after I trimmed it for my motor.

Redfisher


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## elsillo

Boatbrains said:


> Are you having cavitation problems? Just curious why your looking into a plate? I mentioned on another post, some boats do better with them, some do not... tunnel or no tunnel.


I recently changed props for a heavy cupped one, everything since then is much better. my only issue if i run my Jackplate too high I get the Temp alarm. I know Cav Plates are meant to hold more water around the prop and intake.


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## elsillo

@Redfisher80 
Great! I will call Tran Sport, I liked the cougar marine because its not bolt on to the lower unit but the owner literally cancelled my order once I advised it was going on a Skiff non-tunnel. Don't understand what he cares about where I stick it as long as I pay for it.


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## Guest

10/4, might try a Bob’s nose cone low water pickup. The only down side I can see to the plate would be reduced top speed due to drag but that is it. I’m not 100% sure the plate would solve water pressure/ overheat issues. I know they work pretty good for cavitation/ slipping issues.


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## Fishtex

I would call Jack Foreman and discuss your set up. He has a great reputation for knowing what prop, motor, boat, jack plate combos work best. He is a prop guru. 

All those variables I mentioned are at play so it’s not necessarily just finding a cav plate and you’re done.


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## Guest

His problem at this point is cooling water, while I’ve heard only good things about Jack Forman... I don’t believe a prop will solve that. But, Maybe Jack could answer Whether or not the plate would help with that.


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## Smackdaddy53

Boatbrains said:


> 10/4, might try a Bob’s nose cone low water pickup. The only down side I can see to the plate would be reduced top speed due to drag but that is it. I’m not 100% sure the plate would solve water pressure/ overheat issues. I know they work pretty good for cavitation/ slipping issues.


They don’t slow a boat down unless you run the motor too low from what I’ve seen. Top end actually increases due to maximizing efficiency.


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## Blackdog317

Adding a cav plate helped the performance on my last two (non-tunnel) skiffs. Water pressure, holeshot, grip in high speed turns, minimum planing speed, getting up with the jack plate maxed-out, running on plane with the jack plate maxed-out - all improved or were made possible with the plate and the right prop (Baumann or Foreman).

I ran a Shaw-Wing on a Ranger Banshee Extreme and have a Tran plate on a BT Mosquito. Both skiffs had jack pates. Both set-ups worked well. No regrets.

Ranger/Shaw/Baumann























BT/Tran/Foreman


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## elsillo

I'm trying to run my Motor as high as I can without it overheating for short back lake trips here in the LLM, I am not losing grip nor speed currently just get the Temp reading. So my understanding is the Cav Plate should keep the water around the intake to be able to run thru. 

My doubt is cavitation plates are designed for tunnel hulls in order to continue the stream of water around the prop when jacked up high. So it's expected that you are always running the cav plate high from the water, but in a Non-Tunnel hull will there be any danger of the front of the cav plate maybe not always being above the water line and causing other issues as they are not meant to be run under the hull per say.


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## Blackdog317

That probably depends on where the cav plate sits (relative to the bottom of the hull) when the motor is at its lowest position. Do you have a jack plate? How high is the motor currently mounted? Attach a picture of your motor from the rear of the boat if you can.


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## Smackdaddy53

elsillo said:


> I'm trying to run my Motor as high as I can without it overheating for short back lake trips here in the LLM, I am not losing grip nor speed currently just get the Temp reading. So my understanding is the Cav Plate should keep the water around the intake to be able to run thru.
> 
> My doubt is cavitation plates are designed for tunnel hulls in order to continue the stream of water around the prop when jacked up high. So it's expected that you are always running the cav plate high from the water, but in a Non-Tunnel hull will there be any danger of the front of the cav plate maybe not always being above the water line and causing other issues as they are not meant to be run under the hull per say.


I think you are overthinking it.


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## elsillo

I called Jack and Tran Sport and talked to john the guy that makes the cav plate. I will be adding the Cav plate to the motor and having some custom aluminum Strainers made for increased low water pickup. These two should help make it run skinny **skinnier**, exciting news.


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## SeaDrifter

Keep us posted on how it turns out (both mods) as I am having the same issue but in the ULM


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## elsillo

Blackdog317 said:


> Attach a picture of your motor from the rear of the boat if you can.


Hopefully the performance with both add ons should allow me to raise the motor one Bolt hole and tuck that lowerunit higher up.

JackPlate @Lowest:

















JackPlate @Highest:


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## Blackdog317

Looks similar to my Mosquito. I think you will see some improvement with the new plate and prop without any negative effects. Keep us posted.


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## Seymour fish

elsillo said:


> I recently changed props for a heavy cupped one, everything since then is much better. my only issue if i run my Jackplate too high I get the Temp alarm. I know Cav Plates are meant to hold more water around the prop and intake.


El, seems odd to me you would have overheating with that much lower unit below plane of boat bottom. Do you have a water pressure gauge ? Valuable if you are running the LLM. Another vote for Tran plate


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## Smackdaddy53

Seymour fish said:


> El, seems odd to me you would have overheating with that much lower unit below plane of boat bottom. Do you have a water pressure gauge ? Valuable if you are running the LLM. Another vote for Tran plate


That’s what I was thinking. He may have some cooling system or powerhead issues.


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## Guest

Could be something causing airated water to the intakes. Trim tabs, transducer, through hull for live well...


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## elsillo

UPDATE* 
Well I feel like an idiot! I am still on standby for the compression plate and lower water screen intakes. But I have continued using the skiff in the bay on skinny water and performance is almost night and day, I am not getting at all any High Temp alerts nor losing speed or prop blowouts when JP is running at top height. I just needed more time to fine tune (play) with the trim, tilt and JP. I keep getting amazed on how shallow I'm getting now with no tunnel and no signs of propwash. Last 3 trips I can even hole-shot on the highest JP position and get out quick with no blowout. Once I go forward with the upgrades of compression plate and water intakes this skiff will only get better.


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## Smackdaddy53

elsillo said:


> UPDATE*
> Well I feel like an idiot! I am still on standby for the compression plate and lower water screen intakes. But I have continued using the skiff in the bay on skinny water and performance is almost night and day, I am not getting at all any High Temp alerts nor losing speed or prop blowouts when JP is running at top height. I just needed more time to fine tune (play) with the trim, tilt and JP. I keep getting amazed on how shallow I'm getting now with no tunnel and no signs of propwash. Last 3 trips I can even hole-shot on the highest JP position and get out quick with no blowout. Once I go forward with the upgrades of compression plate and water intakes this skiff will only get better.


What did you change? Nothing but how you adjust and run it?


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## elsillo

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What did you change? Nothing but how you adjust and run it?


Exactly! haha just running tilt and trims differently.


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## elsillo

UPDATE** 

I am meeting John who makes the Tran Sport cav plate this Saturday in PM to pickup my new cav plate and my new Low Water Intake Screens. They were designed by Jack Foreman and runs them on his 50hp Tohatsu pics:


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## Smackdaddy53

elsillo said:


> UPDATE**
> 
> I am meeting John who makes the Tran Sport cav plate this Saturday in PM to pickup my new cav plate and my new Low Water Intake Screens. They were designed by Jack Foreman and runs them on his 50hp Tohatsu pics:


Game changer


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## AgAngler2370

elsillo said:


> UPDATE**
> 
> I am meeting John who makes the Tran Sport cav plate this Saturday in PM to pickup my new cav plate and my new Low Water Intake Screens. They were designed by Jack Foreman and runs them on his 50hp Tohatsu pics:


Could you PM me john’s contact info. I have a hatsu 50 and have been wanting to try some high flow screens since I run it high on jack plate. I just haven’t found anyone that sells them.


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## elsillo

Tran Sport Cav Plate, I was not able to get it done this weekend to busy with other things but apparently I will need to take off the Trim Tab Anode to install it.


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## Smackdaddy53

elsillo said:


> Tran Sport Cav Plate, I was not able to get it done this weekend to busy with other things but apparently I will need to take off the Trim Tab Anode to install it.


Or use a hole saw to cut it out around the anode like most of us did. If you buy the plate pre-cut for your particular motor it will have a cutout for it. If I was going to do it over I’d have cut my anode fin off and just leave the plate solid. Jacked as high as I run it the fin does nothing but get in the way. Don’t overthink it!


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## sjrobin

The anode will not do the corrosion prevention work if the anode is covered. Cut the hole with a Rotozip(Dremel) or hole saw.


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## Smackdaddy53

sjrobin said:


> The anode will not do the corrosion prevention work if the anode is covered. Cut the hole with a Rotozip(Dremel) or hole saw.


My anodes show no sign of sacrificial corrosion, I don’t store my skiff in a wet slip which is really the only place they truly work as designed.


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## EvanHammer

Smackdaddy53 said:


> My anodes show no sign of sacrificial corrosion, I don’t store my skiff in a wet slip which is really the only place they truly work as designed.


I figured they might be important when the outboard is down and you're running an electric trolling motor but I don't really know?


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## elsillo

I plan on cutting a space for the trim anode, would not want to take it off if its there to reduce corrosion.


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## Smackdaddy53

elsillo said:


> I plan on cutting a space for the trim anode, would not want to take it off if its there to reduce corrosion.


I cut a hole out with a holesaw that was about 1/2” larger diameter than the anode so there would be a 1/4” space around the perimeter. Run the holesaw in reverse first to keep from chipping the gelcoat. A great trick for cutting holes in any fiberglass with gelcoat that I learned from a guy on here I think.


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## crboggs

elsillo said:


> new Low Water Intake Screens. They were designed by Jack Foreman and runs them on his 50hp Tohatsu


Tell me more about these intake screens...I'm running a Tohatsu 50 with a Foreman prop myself.


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## Blackdog317

elsillo said:


> I plan on cutting a space for the trim anode, would not want to take it off if its there to reduce corrosion.


Can you mount it above the motor's cav plate? I went that route to avoid the torque tab anode and a water intake on the Suzuki 60. Not sure if that is an option worth considering on the Tohat...


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## elsillo

crboggs said:


> Tell me more about these intake screens...I'm running a Tohatsu 50 with a Foreman prop myself.


Well John was the one that told me about them at first, and I confirmed Jack Foreman designed them, a local guy with a machine shop builds them to order. They stick out about half an inch.


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## AgAngler2370

crboggs said:


> Tell me more about these intake screens...I'm running a Tohatsu 50 with a Foreman prop myself.


The logic behind this is that the hatsu engines are low pressure high volume. When you run the engine jacked way up the bigger screens can help pickup/divert more water to the engine that is lost from the aerated water that the lower unit is running in. Don’t know how well they work (I haven’t tried them yet) but the logic seems sound.


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## crboggs

elsillo said:


> Well John was the one that told me about them at first, and I confirmed Jack Foreman designed them, a local guy with a machine shop builds them to order. They stick out about half an inch.


When you get them installed, can you post up a pic? Very curious about them myself.


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## elsillo

crboggs said:


> When you get them installed, can you post up a pic? Very curious about them myself.


Yes sir, I wont be able to get them installed until the weekend as I keep my boat stored out of town, but I will for sure send pics of everything installed.


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## elsillo

Blackdog317 said:


> Can you mount it above the motor's cav plate? I went that route to avoid the torque tab anode and a water intake on the Suzuki 60. Not sure if that is an option worth considering on the Tohat...


I believe the Tohatsu trim plate is wider than your Suzuki so it didn't fit well enough when i placed it. The good news is the Tohatsu lower unit seems to be a little longer so there is more space to have it underneath.


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## Redfisher80

In reference to the intake screens mention earlier.....I just received Jacks first set for the Zuke 60 to try out.....his first prototype! 

All I can say is......they work!!! My motor alarm would come on after running jacked up 100% after 200 yds or so......alarm NEVER came on this weekend trying them out for over 2 hours at a local lake.

I did not even have my trans cav plate reinstalled on the new lower unit and I could not believe how well they worked.

I was hitting 21mph on plane, jacked all the way up and temps were around 153-155 well below the alarm state with no trim angle. When trimming while jacked....the temps rose to about 170 but were never higher than that!

See pics below....they work....enjoy!


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## Redfisher80

Here is a screenshot of my lowrance with the numbers.....


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## Smackdaddy53

Redfisher80 said:


> Here is a screenshot of my lowrance with the numbers.....


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## sjrobin

Not pretty but helps with planing depth.


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## sjrobin

Redfisher80 said:


> In reference to the intake screens mention earlier.....I just received Jacks first set for the Zuke 60 to try out.....his first prototype!
> 
> All I can say is......they work!!! My motor alarm would come on after running jacked up 100% after 200 yds or so......alarm NEVER came on this weekend trying them out for over 2 hours at a local lake.
> 
> I did not even have my trans cav plate reinstalled on the new lower unit and I could not believe how well they worked.
> 
> I was hitting 21mph on plane, jacked all the way up and temps were around 153-155 well below the alarm state with no trim angle. When trimming while jacked....the temps rose to about 170 but were never higher than that!
> 
> See pics below....they work....enjoy!


 Those screens are large enough to let larger turtle grass and sand/gravel into the cooling system.


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## Redfisher80

They were tested at a lake in deep water only over the weekend. Jack has used them for a while now on his Tohatsu 50 with no issues.

Working on getting more made with smaller inlets and vertical supports as well......essentially just a bunch of holes vs the large horizontal inlets.
We will see!

Redfisher


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## Smackdaddy53

sjrobin said:


> I would not use those screens, be ready to have trouble with the cooling system if the motor is used shallow often; thermostat, water pump, water passages. Using standard Yamaha water screens, I have removed pieces of grass from the thermostat when I replace it at 100 hour intervals. Those screens are large enough to let larger turtle grass and sand/gravel into the cooling system.


I’m fairly certain Jack would not run them on his motor or bother having them made if they were problematic. I’m not saying they won’t allow more debris in the cooling system but the cooling systems on these little motors aren’t that complex. He’s been designing low water pickups and shallow water upgrades for a while now. The Chittum tunnel extension with water intakes has holes bigger than those intake screens. Come to think of it that is very similar to the low water pickup Jack made for his old boat with a Yamaha 50 2 stroke I was checking out almost 5 years ago. He ran that rig for years with no problems. Time will tell.


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## Guest

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m fairly certain Jack would not run them on his motor or bother having them made if they were problematic. I’m not saying they won’t allow more debris in the cooling system but the cooling systems on these little motors aren’t that complex. He’s been designing low water pickups and shallow water upgrades for a while now. The Chittum tunnel extension with water intakes has holes bigger than those intake screens. Come to think of it that is very similar to the low water pickup Jack made for his old boat with a Yamaha 50 2 stroke I was checking out almost 5 years ago. He ran that rig for years with no problems. Time will tell.


This, also the Bob’s low water pickup nose cone in which I am a big fan of down here in Florida has no screens, just machined/drilled holes in the cone and while it also lets some debris in... I have never seen any cooling system issues with them!


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## Redfisher80

I agree....I am going to keep running them for sure! Everyone has an opinion about water inlets and deposits entering their units.....everyone fishes in different locations and environments as well.

I am sure I will be fine.....man, they work!!!

Redfisher


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## Smackdaddy53

Boatbrains said:


> This, also the Bob’s low water pickup nose cone in which I am a big fan of down here in Florida has no screens, just machined/drilled holes in the cone and while it also lets some debris in... I have never seen any cooling system issues with them!


I’m installing my nosecone one day when I have the time to be without my boat. It’s been in the closet with all the materials just waiting.


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## elsillo

Update**

Installed water screens and cav plate. I also went ahead and moved the motor higher up on the jackplate, test run tomorrow!


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## Redfisher80

E,
Looks good.....I would cut the excess bolts off of the top flush with the lock nuts. I found at low speeds when the motor was at a certain height there was a ton of extra water splashing back into the boat with them. When I cut them.....at that certain height, it did not splash back into the boat.

Other than that.....keep us posted on the results.....you are going to be amazed!

Again, I had zero overheating issues with no cav plate with the pickups. I finally got the cav plate re-installed yesterday.....will only be better from here.

Redfisher


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## Smackdaddy53

Redfisher80 said:


> E,
> Looks good.....I would cut the excess bolts off of the top flush with the lock nuts. I found at low speeds when the motor was at a certain height there was a ton of extra water splashing back into the boat with them. When I cut them.....at that certain height, it did not splash back into the boat.
> 
> Other than that.....keep us posted on the results.....you are going to be amazed!
> 
> Again, I had zero overheating issues with no cav plate with the pickups. I finally got the cav plate re-installed yesterday.....will only be better from here.
> 
> Redfisher


If water is splashing in your boat from the longer bolts on TOP of the plate something is wrong!


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## Redfisher80

Smack,
I’m telling you....it was.....I could not believe it either but it was the bolts.
It was only at a certain height, if I buried it or pulled it up, it did go away.

The bolts were too long and I have since then changed them out and no issues.

Redfisher


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## Smackdaddy53

Redfisher80 said:


> Smack,
> I’m telling you....it was.....I could not believe it either but it was the bolts.
> It was only at a certain height, if I buried it or pulled it up, it did go away.
> 
> The bolts were too long and I have since then changed them out and no issues.
> 
> Redfisher


That’s crazy! I don’t think water should never flow over the top of the plate but who knows.


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## Redfisher80

Yeah....it only flows over the top when I have it completely buried taking off.

Now with Jacks prop, the cav plate and the water pickups.....It never gets all the way down.....no need.

It is unreal, the performance of the boat, now that all this has been done....crazy I waited that long to really get it like they all should be from the factory!

Redfisher


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## elsillo

Smackdaddy53 said:


> That’s crazy! I don’t think water should never flow over the top of the plate but who knows.


Yeah water does not run on top of mine I have no issue with water splashing back on the boat.


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## elsillo




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## BudT

Hey elsillo, now your getting there! I like the shot you posted showing the prop shaft nearly on plane with the bottom of the boat. Very encouraging to see what you are doing. I used to run my duck boats this way b4 surface drives were around, and they would literally amaze people, now for the disclaimer.....we do have mostly soft bottoms here. I am watching this closely, thanks for sharing!


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## efi2712micro

Blackdog317 said:


> Adding a cav plate helped the performance on my last two (non-tunnel) skiffs. Water pressure, holeshot, grip in high speed turns, minimum planing speed, getting up with the jack plate maxed-out, running on plane with the jack plate maxed-out - all improved or were made possible with the plate and the right prop (Baumann or Foreman).
> 
> I ran a Shaw-Wing on a Ranger Banshee Extreme and have a Tran plate on a BT Mosquito. Both skiffs had jack pates. Both set-ups worked well. No regrets.
> 
> Ranger/Shaw/Baumann
> View attachment 35984
> View attachment 35986
> View attachment 35988
> 
> 
> BT/Tran/Foreman
> View attachment 35990
> View attachment 35992


Blackdog - cool to see you have experience with both cav plates. Was there any significant performance difference between the shawwing and the tran sport? Besides aesthetics (like the Tran), there is a component of price too .... thanks


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## Blackdog317

Hard to compare the two since they were on different skiffs/motors/props. Both worked well and improved performance in a number of ways. (Better holeshot, better water pressure, eliminated cavitation regardless of jack plate setting, slower minimum planing speed, allowed me to jump up and run with the JP maxed-out). 

Both have their positives and negatives. The Tran requires drilling, the Shaw might move and cause wear on the lower-unit if not installed properly. One might hit the sponsons. The Tran is easier to customize if needed. Shaw comes in 3 sizes (I think...?). The Tran is cheaper...etc...etc. Personal preference and looks might come into play too.

In my case, BOTH plates dramatically improved performance and made my skiffs much more capable on the water. That opened up more fishing opportunities that were not available before. If needed, the right prop, plate and engine setting can make a big difference if you want to maximize a skiff's ability to (responsibly) get up and run in shallow water.


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## m32825

Is the Tran compression plate an option for smaller outboards? I have a 20hp Mercury with a Stingray Jr on it right now. It helps with hole shot and staying on plane at lower speeds, but on plane it is just above the water, which does nothing for keeping water around the prop.

-- Carl


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## Smackdaddy53

m32825 said:


> Is the Tran compression plate an option for smaller outboards? I have a 20hp Mercury with a Stingray Jr on it right now. It helps with hole shot and staying on plane at lower speeds, but on plane it is just above the water, which does nothing for keeping water around the prop.
> 
> -- Carl


You want it just above the water. If it’s below it you have a problem.


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## m32825

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You want it just above the water. If it’s below it you have a problem.


I understand. I've got my current setup dialed in, but I'm wondering if I could go higher without ventilating using a Tran compression plate?

-- Carl


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## efi2712micro

Blackdog317 said:


> The Tran requires drilling


Well, that's a non-starter for me! let's see the shaw. might get it fitted by fibertex themselves to avoid the risk of movement.


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## elsillo

What silicone do you guys recommend? The one I used blew off after a couple days of use. I need to put new silicone around the cavplate.


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## Smackdaddy53

Black 3M 4200 Fast Cure. Mask off so you keep clean lines and use WD-40 to keep your finger clean and make a nice clean finished joint.
DO NOT USE 5200 unless you never plan on removing it.


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## Redfisher80

I used a tube of permatex 100% black silicone.....works great. Like Smack said, use we-40 for a good clean bead. It does not clean up with just water like regular caulk.....it’s good stuff. Cure time was a little less than 24 hours for me. Ordered from amazon.....$14 for a tube.

Redfisher


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## BudT

Hey Elsillo,

I saw the pics you posted but just wanted to follow up with you on this. Have you got it dialed in are you any higher than the last pic you posted? Are you happy with the holeshot, shallow performance ect? Couple of other questions - are you running a 15 or 20 inch shaft motor, and what prop are you running, any propwork, cup ect.?? Looks killer from the shots you posted!


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## elsillo

BudT said:


> Hey Elsillo,
> 
> I saw the pics you posted but just wanted to follow up with you on this. Have you got it dialed in are you any higher than the last pic you posted? Are you happy with the holeshot, shallow performance ect? Couple of other questions - are you running a 15 or 20 inch shaft motor, and what prop are you running, any propwork, cup ect.?? Looks killer from the shots you posted!


I am running it as the last picture posted, skiff is running amazing. no need for a tunnel as of now and it will get on plane in around 8" on a boats lengths depending on the bay floor. Tohatsu is a 20" shaft, Current prop is a PT SWC3 14P factory. Only con is that the motor is running so high now that you have to be careful when turning because skiff will slide and not turn as quickly as before.


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## BudT

10-4, excellent info. Been talking w/ the guys at Cayo about this issue. So your post has been very helpful in giving me an idea of what I can get away with, thank you for the feedback!


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## Seymour fish

elsillo said:


> I am running it as the last picture posted, skiff is running amazing. no need for a tunnel as of now and it will get on plane in around 8" on a boats lengths depending on the bay floor. Tohatsu is a 20" shaft, Current prop is a PT SWC3 14P factory. Only con is that the motor is running so high now that you have to be careful when turning because skiff will slide and not turn as quickly as before.


What will she do in the sand as far as holeshot and running on plane ?


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## elsillo

Seymour fish said:


> What will she do in the sand as far as holeshot and running on plane ?


On hard sand I need close to a foot to get on plane, weight up front and tabs down. But once on plane it will run in anything, I have yet to push it so far as to get stuck on hard sand if you see the pic only around 5" of keel and prop are under the hull other half is above hull line. I really don't need to run that low, my project was more than anything to be able to run around 1ft of water without being worried of hitting something and "being able to get out" is my #1 reason.


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## Seymour fish

elsillo said:


> On hard sand I need close to a foot to get on plane, weight up front and tabs down. But once on plane it will run in anything, I have yet to push it so far as to get stuck on hard sand if you see the pic only around 5" of keel and prop are under the hull other half is above hull line. I really don't need to run that low, my project was more than anything to be able to run around 1ft of water without being worried of hitting something and "being able to get out" is my #1 reason.


Dude, that is awesome and as you know will get you to anything that holds fish in LLM


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## trekker

elsillo said:


> @Redfisher80
> Great! I will call Tran Sport, I liked the cougar marine because its not bolt on to the lower unit but the owner literally cancelled my order once I advised it was going on a Skiff non-tunnel. Don't understand what he cares about where I stick it as long as I pay for it.


Thats nuts.


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## Zika

Redfisher80 said:


> I used a tube of permatex 100% black silicone.....works great. Like Smack said, use we-40 for a good clean bead. It does not clean up with just water like regular caulk.....it’s good stuff. Cure time was a little less than 24 hours for me. Ordered from amazon.....$14 for a tube.
> 
> Redfisher


Liquid dishwashing detergent will do the same thing as far as keeping your finger clear of caulk for a professional finish on the bead. Better for the environment too. I like Dawn.


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## not2shabby

Reviving this thread in reference to the low water intake screens that Jack Foreman designed. I talked with Jack yesterday and he is now making them for a variety of motors. I'm getting a set for my 70 2-stroke and will add my experience after installation.

I recently installed the trans sport plate on my outboard. Still trimming and sanding a little bit to make sure it clears the sponsons. Performance is excellent. The plate sat in my garage for a year and I can't believe it took me so long to get it installed. Hole shot, minimum planing speed, performance all the way up on the jack plate, etc. are all greatly improved. It also helps to plane the skiff out and I find myself using tabs less.


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## EdK13

not2shabby said:


> Reviving this thread in reference to the low water intake screens that Jack Foreman designed. I talked with Jack yesterday and he is now making them for a variety of motors. I'm getting a set for my 70 2-stroke and will add my experience after installation.
> 
> I recently installed the trans sport plate on my outboard. Still trimming and sanding a little bit to make sure it clears the sponsons. Performance is excellent. The plate sat in my garage for a year and I can't believe it took me so long to get it installed. Hole shot, minimum planing speed, performance all the way up on the jack plate, etc. are all greatly improved. It also helps to plane the skiff out and I find myself using tabs less.
> 
> View attachment 101290
> 
> 
> View attachment 101292


Clean work there...


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## SomaliPirate

not2shabby said:


> Reviving this thread in reference to the low water intake screens that Jack Foreman designed. I talked with Jack yesterday and he is now making them for a variety of motors. I'm getting a set for my 70 2-stroke and will add my experience after installation.
> 
> I recently installed the trans sport plate on my outboard. Still trimming and sanding a little bit to make sure it clears the sponsons. Performance is excellent. The plate sat in my garage for a year and I can't believe it took me so long to get it installed. Hole shot, minimum planing speed, performance all the way up on the jack plate, etc. are all greatly improved. It also helps to plane the skiff out and I find myself using tabs less.
> 
> View attachment 101290
> 
> 
> View attachment 101292


Do the screens bolt into the factory locations? Are they better at pickup when the motor is jacked? What's the deal, I'm intrigued.


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## not2shabby

SomaliPirate said:


> Do the screens bolt into the factory locations? Are they better at pickup when the motor is jacked? What's the deal, I'm intrigued.


I don't have mine yet. Jack is hunting in Kansas. Probably freezing.

See earlier posts on this thread for some photos of others using the pickups on the Tohatsu 50 and Suzuki 60. They mount in the factory location and stick out about 1/2" to "scoop" water into the intake. Jack runs them on his Tohatsu and told me it completely solved his overheat alarm running all the way up on the jack plate.


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## elsillo

not2shabby said:


> Reviving this thread in reference to the low water intake screens that Jack Foreman designed. I talked with Jack yesterday and he is now making them for a variety of motors. I'm getting a set for my 70 2-stroke and will add my experience after installation.
> 
> I recently installed the trans sport plate on my outboard. Still trimming and sanding a little bit to make sure it clears the sponsons. Performance is excellent. The plate sat in my garage for a year and I can't believe it took me so long to get it installed. Hole shot, minimum planing speed, performance all the way up on the jack plate, etc. are all greatly improved. It also helps to plane the skiff out and I find myself using tabs less.
> 
> View attachment 101290
> 
> 
> View attachment 101292


How has you skiff been running with the trans cav plate now? have you noticed a world of difference like we all have?


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## not2shabby

elsillo said:


> How has you skiff been running with the trans cav plate now? have you noticed a world of difference like we all have?


it’s great. I wish I had added it sooner!


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## Charles Hadley

Couple questions, does the material of plate matter,I have access to make it from aluminum pipe and plate?will I gain success with only running 25 hp Yamaha 4 stroke?my outlaw runs shallow but there are some places I regularly go that I feel I can benefit from this.already have jack plate and my tabs are tucked under boat,with plate up I reach desired rpms and speed but water pressure is low and I don't want to burn engine up,its new.any help would be appreciated


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## Smackdaddy53

Charles Hadley said:


> Couple questions, does the material of plate matter,I have access to make it from aluminum pipe and plate?will I gain success with only running 25 hp Yamaha 4 stroke?my outlaw runs shallow but there are some places I regularly go that I feel I can benefit from this.already have jack plate and my tabs are tucked under boat,with plate up I reach desired rpms and speed but water pressure is low and I don't want to burn engine up,its new.any help would be appreciated


As long as you use thick enough aluminum for it to not flex it should be ok but I’d use TefGel on the stainless fasteners so you don’t have dissimilar metal corrosion. The more the sides turn down the better and make the front far enough forward to catch all the water that rises from the transom so it’s not going over the top and spraying everywhere. This will help water pressure but I can’t promise it will fix it completely.


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## Charles Hadley

Smackdaddy53 said:


> As long as you use thick enough aluminum for it to not flex it should be ok but I’d use TefGel on the stainless fasteners so you don’t have dissimilar metal corrosion. The more the sides turn down the better and make the front far enough forward to catch all the water that rises from the transom so it’s not going over the top and spraying everywhere. This will help water pressure but I can’t promise it will fix it completely.


Galvanic corrosion was my concern also but will be a factor with bolts through engine foot any way,is it ok if plate protrudes foward toward transom or should it be flush with front of bottom unit?


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## Charles Hadley

Pipe is approximately 1/4 inch thick


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## Smackdaddy53

Charles Hadley said:


> Galvanic corrosion was my concern also but will be a factor with bolts through engine foot any way,is it ok if plate protrudes foward toward transom or should it be flush with front of bottom unit?


1/4” will be fine. How far forward the plate extends depends on how high your motor is and where the apron of water hits with the motor jacked all the way up and trimested out. Test this without a plate to know.


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## hookset

Great Thread--I actually talked to Jack today about getting a new prop and Cavitation plate for my hpx-t. He said to get the largest shaw wing I could fit. I was really leaning towards tran just because they look so much cleaner. Trying to make my mind up now.


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## CKEAT

I have the Shaw on a pro with no tunnel. Really like it, helped quite a bit in overall handling, get up and water intake. Would never run again in Texas without one.


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## Sublime

hookset said:


> Great Thread--I actually talked to Jack today about getting a new prop and Cavitation plate for my hpx-t. He said to get the largest shaw wing I could fit. I was really leaning towards tran just because they look so much cleaner. Trying to make my mind up now.



I'd go with what Jack said. He has probably done MANY HPX-Ts.


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## backcast

This is a Nevski foil. Ted Winders made it before he died.


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## backcast

Nedski foil


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## Sublime

For what it is worth, on my non tunnel Conchfish build I may go with no cav plate, a low water pickup and a custom prop. On a non tunnel I really don't think a plate is doing much when you are running with the jack plate up. It is probably out of the water and not directing anything towards your prop or intakes.


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## CKEAT

Sublime said:


> For what it is worth, on my non tunnel Conchfish build I may go with no cav plate, a low water pickup and a custom prop. On a non tunnel I really don't think a plate is doing much when you are running with the jack plate up. It is probably out of the water and not directing anything towards your prop or intakes.


Jack would not agree with this and I do not either. It changed the game for me from overheating to not at all at any point.


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## mrbacklash

I built this a few weeks ago mostly because I wanted something that did not bolt through the engine and wanted something to fit inside the notch of my Cayenne. Pretty happy with it so far didn’t want to use gel oat on the first one but the next one I make I will. I threw some paint on it and it looks a lot better. I’ll grab some more pics tomorrow of it painted.


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## hookset

CKEAT said:


> I have the Shaw on a pro with no tunnel. Really like it, helped quite a bit in overall handling, get up and water intake. Would never run again in Texas without one.


That actually looks so much better than the ones earlier posted on this thread.


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## hookset

As Jack kept telling me, "what are you trying to accomplish and how mad are you at skinny water"


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## TX_Brad

I can make someone a heck of a deal on a Shaw wing


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## Sublime

CKEAT said:


> Jack would not agree with this and I do not either. It changed the game for me from overheating to not at all at any point.


Maybe. I had Jack out on my Spear tunnel with a Trans cav plate and we just couldn't get the take off where it needed to be. This had more to do with what you can get accomplished with a 30 horse outboard than anything else. What I _can_ tell you is that I could run my engine so high with his prop that the cav plate was completely out of the water. Completely.


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## not2shabby

Sublime said:


> Maybe. I had Jack out on my Spear tunnel with a Trans cav plate and we just couldn't get the take off where it needed to be. This had more to do with what you can get accomplished with a 30 horse outboard than anything else. What I _can_ tell you is that I could run my engine so high with his prop that the cav plate was completely out of the water. Completely.


Jack runs a Spear tunnel, right? Tohatsu 50? How is his set up?


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## Sublime

not2shabby said:


> Jack runs a Spear tunnel, right? Tohatsu 50? How is his set up?


Yes, Tohatsu 50, 3 blade prop and what looks like a huge Shaw-wing plate. And I'm sure he runs his own modified intake scoops on the motor.


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## crboggs

Shaw Wing made a big difference on @K3anderson 's non-tunnel Guide...especially in handling.


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## elsillo

Sublime said:


> Yes, Tohatsu 50, 3 blade prop and what looks like a huge Shaw-wing plate. And I'm sure he runs his own modified intake scoops on the motor.


I have his custom intake screens on my Tohatsu 50, if you scroll thru this thread earlier I installed them. My Heron has done great for a Non-Tunnel Skiff of course it will always be limited even with the upgrades I have made. But it changed night and day running a cav plate, and heavy cupped prop. The screens Jack makes allow for more water flow lowering your chance of overheating. I personally installed the Trans cavplate because I feel it offer's a better design as a half pipe, keeps water around the prop better.


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## K3anderson

What causes mine to overheat is grass getting caught on the shaw wing. I have to stop, reverse, blow it out, and then its fine for a while


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## Sublime

I'm not saying I won't use a cav plate on my build, but I will try it first without one. 

Look at Sabine Skiffs. Brian Little is as "mad at shallow water" as anyone and I've never seen a cav plate on any of his skiffs, tunnel or not.


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## jglidden

While we are sharing cav plates. Here is a fiberglass one I just finished building but haven't installed. My "wing tips" may be a little long but I figured they could be trimmed after some testing.


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## Sublime

jglidden said:


> While we are sharing cav plates. Here is a fiberglass one I just finished building but haven't installed. My "wing tips" may be a little long but I figured they could be trimmed after some testing.
> View attachment 127418


I don't know how common it is, but they "say" that if you kick up shell with something like that, there's a chance that instead of throwing the shell clear, it bounces off the plate and back into the prop. Kind of like a disposal lol.


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## jglidden

Hadn’t thought of that, thanks @Sublime


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## Mark H

Soooo.....What would I gain or lose on a small skiff by choosing tunnel or no tunnel if each of them takes advantage of all this magic?


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## elsillo

Mark H said:


> Soooo.....What would I gain or lose on a small skiff by choosing tunnel or no tunnel if each of them takes advantage of all this magic?


A tunnel skiff will always run skinnier, I have been on Eric Glass Chittum (Laguna Madre edition) and you get scared how skinny it can go almost seems like its a fan boat.


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## Mark H

All else equal on a small skiff I gain ? inches with a tunnel but give up ? speed? Approximate of course.


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## Surffshr

I don’t think it would be “inches” and most are relatively slow anyhow. A huge consideration is whether the skiff is properly set up to take advantage of the tunnel. Most FL style skiffs are not...at least from the factory they aren’t.


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## Mark H

Hoping for some experts to tell me what I'm giving up with a properly set up small tunnel skiff vs no tunnel properly set up in terms of inches and or speed in terms of best guess numbers.


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## Sublime

Mark H said:


> Hoping for some experts to tell me what I'm giving up with a properly set up small tunnel skiff vs no tunnel properly set up in terms of inches and or speed in terms of best guess numbers.


Have had both. My first poling skiff was a 2007 Beavertail tiller, no tunnel but did have a fixed jack plate. That skiff would run in about 9” but took about 15” to get up. I ran that skiff for 9 years. My next skiff was a Spear Glades X tunnel tiller with a 30 etec and micro jacker jack plate. That skiff would run super skinny, 6 inches or less. But even with a good prop it had trouble spinning up on plane with the 30 horse. That skiff would have come alive with a 50. 

It all depends on the skiff but I’d guess, in general, you’ll give up 1/2” to 3/4” of poling draft with a tunnel and up to 10% on top speed. My main reason for not going with another tunnel is the 90% rule. Buy a skiff that fits the areas you fish 90% of the time. For the areas I fish most often, I simply don’t need a tunnel. I found when I moved to the tunnel skiff I missed being able to trim the motor down and just go. With a tunnel and jack plate there’s always a degree of finessing and constant adjustments etc. Also , my BT would carve up a windy creek like nobody’s business. My tunnel skiff not so much. Also running in a chop , my tunnel would always cavitate some and if you lowered the motor enough to cut that out, the cavitation plate would throw water up on the back deck.


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## Mark H

Thanks!


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## not2shabby

There’s not really an exact rule of thumb for lost draft due to a tunnel. It’s different with each hull and tunnel design because it’s lost displacement. Somewhere, I remember seeing Morejohn post the volume of his tunnel design for the Whipray. It was just a few gallons.

Let’s call it 5 gallons for simplicity. If the volume of a tunnel is 5 gallons, then you’ll lose enough draft to displace that 5 gallons (.67 cubic feet). Across an average skiff hull, I would think that is easily less than 1/2” lost draft. You have to have a model of the hull or Chris Morejohn’s expertise to tell exactly what the tunnel translates to in displacement.

The other way to look at tunnel impacts to displacement is buoyancy. Sticking with our 5-gallon figure for tunnel volume, you would have about the same draft as a non-tunnel skiff if you can lighten your boat by 42 pounds (the weight of 5 gallons of water). Not accounting for distribution of weight and other factors. So a 800lb non-tunnel skiff will draft about the same as a 758lb tunnel skiff with a 5gal tunnel.


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## jay.bush1434

Sublime said:


> For what it is worth, on my non tunnel Conchfish build I may go with no cav plate, a low water pickup and a custom prop. *On a non tunnel I really don't think a plate is doing much when you are running with the jack plate up*. It is probably out of the water and not directing anything towards your prop or intakes.


I would disagree with this. I have 3 buddies that put cav plates on their skiffs (EVOx -Shaw wing, Fury - Perma-trim, Fury- Simmons custom rigging plate) and all three said it greatly improved the overall handling and performance. All can run their motors jacked all the way up, all day no overheat issues. All of them said that they have to use very little trim tab as well. I'm putting a Perma-trim on my new EVOx for that very reason, along with a Foreman prop and Foreman intakes.

I do agree that you should run it first without to get a baseline performance. You will likely be able to raise the motor mounting after installing the cav plate if you decide to install one.


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## jay.bush1434

Sublime said:


> I'm not saying I won't use a cav plate on my build, but I will try it first without one.
> 
> Look at Sabine Skiffs. Brian Little is as "mad at shallow water" as anyone and I've never seen a cav plate on any of his skiffs, tunnel or not.


I have run and fished on a Sabine Versatile with tunnel quite a bit. Definitely would improve the performance of the boat if it had a cav plate. The tabs don't push the bow down enough when it is choppy and for a flat bottom boat, you need to get the bow down smooth out the ride. Also, even with a super cupped shallow water angry 4 blade prop on it, it still blows out in tight turns at high jack settings. I get it, it is a flat bottom boat at high jack settings, so we slow down going into turns but that boat would get a huge benefit from a cav plate. They are really cool skiffs.
Besides, when Brian is really mad at shallow water, he's running a jet...


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## Sublime

not2shabby said:


> There’s not really an exact rule of thumb for lost draft due to a tunnel. It’s different with each hull and tunnel design because it’s lost displacement. Somewhere, I remember seeing Morejohn post the volume of his tunnel design for the Whipray. It was just a few gallons.
> 
> Let’s call it 5 gallons for simplicity. If the volume of a tunnel is 5 gallons, then you’ll lose enough draft to displace that 5 gallons (.67 cubic feet). Across an average skiff hull, I would think that is easily less than 1/2” lost draft. You have to have a model of the hull or Chris Morejohn’s expertise to tell exactly what the tunnel translates to in displacement.
> 
> The other way to look at tunnel impacts to displacement is buoyancy. Sticking with our 5-gallon figure for tunnel volume, you would have about the same draft as a non-tunnel skiff if you can lighten your boat by 42 pounds (the weight of 5 gallons of water). Not accounting for distribution of weight and other factors. So a 800lb non-tunnel skiff will draft about the same as a 758lb tunnel skiff with a 5gal tunnel.



Seems like in one of Chris's tunnel drawings, he says they buoyancy loss is around 43 pounds, so I think your number is spot on.


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## Xcapnjoe

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Game changer


I'm late to the party, but in the process of outfitting my new 50 Toe.
Just wanted to say thanks.


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## Travis Rimel

Just added the Shaw-wing to my mosquito, and love it so far... I'm getting up in shallower water, faster, and run the jack plate higher and seeing small gains in top end speed... Easy install, good fit... slight turning radius restriction due to the sponsons, with the jp all the way up, but nothing to complain about, (maybe the Trans Sport is a slimmer? but too late now!)


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## Sublime

What size is that one?


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## Travis Rimel

It's the small/long


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## Nick_TX27

TX_Brad said:


> I can make someone a heck of a deal on a Shaw wing


Oh you can?


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## TX_Brad

Nick_TX27 said:


> Oh you can?


And did. Sold it 5 months ago.


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