# Can it be done?



## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

I guess basically a stripped down version of a ECC Gladesman, Or Hell's Bay Glades Skiff...but built at home


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Anything that can do what you describe will look suspiciously canoe-like and be stoopid simple with no decks/platforms in order to conserve weight and keep the COG low.  A riveted 14' x 36 jon boat would suffice, but the hull speed will be lower than other options and it would be more awkward to lift to the rack.

In your case, here is one good option...










This the Cajun Skiff from Gator Boat Co.  Here is the link: http://www.gatorboats.com/Pirogue-Boat-Plans.htm.

However, if you are really feeling adventurous, consider this...










That is a CAD diagram of a Skin on Frame pirogue from Kudzu Craft.  Due necessities of the build technique, this hull does not have a flat bottom.  I've put a lot of recent thought in to this and I am very confident I could make a flat-back version that could handle a 2-3 HP outboard.  The designer is a very cool guy, but he will not recommend a motor on it at all.  You'd have to figure out the conversion on your own.  SOF hulls are tougher than popular opinion would lead you to believe and merit consideration if you are thinking of car topping a boat.  Here is the link http://www.kudzucraft.com/designs/crawfish-tandem/.

And another...










This is the Bateau Honker.  It weighs 110# per the spec sheet, so it might be touch heavy to lift, but it is definitely car top-able: http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=HK15#.UXNbqsrp-O4.

Yet another...








.

This is the Bayou Skiff from Uncle John's Store:http://unclejohns.com/bysk14/Default.htm

How about a production boat?










Ron Chapman makes good hulls in my experience: http://www.pirogue.com/mudbug.htm.

All of these options will be cozy with two people, but it could be done so long as you packed light, aren't fat, paid attention to where your pole was and had decent balance.

Good luck.  I'll be looking out for your build.

Nate


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

There are many options that might work for you, and car topping something when you have 2 people makes it much easier.

If you are only going to have a 3hp motor then you want to find something that will move very efficiently with little power. A canoe/gheenoe type hull is the first thing that comes to mind, but not for everyone. Getting on plane is pretty much not going to happen, but you can still move well through the water with a displacement hull. 

The FL12 or FL14 would be a decent option and will move great with that motor, but with a flat bottom it won't pole as nicely as some of the commercial hulls. It would do better than a jon boat and be quieter. It is fairly lightweight, simple to build and customize and would be easy to car top.
http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/FL14_study.htm?prod=FL14


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Certainly it can be done.

My two concerns are not for the build itself but are 1) the roof rack. Not many vehicles have roof racks meant for any other purpose than cosmetic. 2) getting it on the vehicle. Two people could do it but one would be tough and anything that long is going to be ackward to handle.

In order to keep the weight down you will need to build it sparse and that will play into the longevity. However with regular maintenance it would last a long time.

Anytide built one out of wood and screws and painted it with a can of returned house paint two years ago and still going strong (no glass or epoxy - just wood and paint). He pushes his with a 2.5hp. He does use a trailer though.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Easy to build a skin over frame hull.
Weight will be minimal, basically a squaretail kayak.


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

Okay...first off, thanks to all for your responses...that's why I love this board...it helps me consider things that I hadn't previously....

I'll try to answer things in order...Nate, I like all of those, but I'm thinking a stripped down version of a FS18, but in the 14' to 16' range. Think WAY bare bones.

Duck nut...true on the roof rack...but I should have clarified...this will be a steel roof rack on an expo trailer...height of the roof rack will be at most 5' off the ground...and on the back side it will have rollers, so once it is flipped, it will roll up at an angle on and then settle flat on padded cross bars, off of the rollers. (It's an idea I stole off of my drift boat trailer). The trailer will be either 6' or 8' in length, and be based off a design of a M416 military trailer, but with a lid and rack. Most guys put RTT's on them, so I know it should support more than 250#, which I hope to be well under that.

Firecat, I suggested a 3hp, only because I have one not being used...I would be open to a 9.9...something light enough to be stored. Not necessarily looking to get on plane or be a speed demon. 

Brett, I like that idea, it's close to what Nate was suggesting.

I have looked at sit on top kayaks, on which you could stand, but honestly I want to option of my wife or one of my kids fishing with me.

Okay, I think I covered all of your topics....

So, batter up! Keep it coming, great stuff, and thank you!


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Skin over frame construction has always fascinated me.
Complex curves without all the fairing, using fiberglass cloth and a staple gun.

This project is one I keep looking at and thinking about trying... :-?

http://www.capefalconkayak.com/adirondackguideboat.html


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Brett has too much time on his hands...


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

True, true...since giving up using hooks,
I no longer have to waste all that extra time
reeling fish in and turnin' 'em loose.
Amazing how much daylight that saves each day
that can be better spent burning ammo and thinkin' about boats...


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

I have built a Jim Michalak design to do about what you want. http://jimsboats.com/ The model I built was "The Rogue" which I increased by 15%. Using epoxy and 5 mm meranti ply the weight was less than most 12' aluminum boats. A 2 hp to 3.5 hp engine would move it easily with 2 people on board. I never had any trouble with it except one day in the NMZ when the wind came up and we had to row into it for about 3 miles. Got wet, but still felt safe.

Best regards,
Frank_S


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

I am pretty sure you just described the pelican ambush.


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

CW....

That is pretty dang close...I'd forgotten about that...thanks for the reminder!

I'm wondering if I can mix that design with the "la Flaca" and get somewhere in between?


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Probably.   The La Flaca is a glass over wood boat.  It will be difficult to make it light enough to carry and load in your truck.  

Are you wanting to build it yourself?


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

CW...yeah, I'm pushing the weight limit...but I'm hoping if I strip enough off of it, I can get it sub 175-ish....w/o the motor obviously...I was hoping for lighter, but I may be chasing unicorns...

And, yes, I'd like to build it with my two sons...what they don't know is that when we finish, it's theirs....


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

Btw....two words....

Marsh Hen

I'm thinking something like that...Dragonfly Marsh Hen


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Ok.  There is a wooden solo skiff build in the bragging section you could read up on for ideas.   There is also one titled swamp canoe that is glass over wood.  

The ultimate would be to build one like forum member Little did with his one off skiff.  Its also posted in the bragging section.  Its a glass over PVC foam core boat.  You could probably make a lighter 13' version of it.

If you want to build a Fiberglass marsh hen, then you could build a plug like I have been doing in my Fowl River 16 in the braging section, make a mold, then lay a fiberglass boat. I have about $6,000 in my entire project for a 16' boat. BTW, there are a million ways to make a plug, I used cabinet grade plywood and sheetrock mud. Just what I was familiar with.


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## mudd_minnow (Oct 13, 2010)

Here is an idea you might consider
I found this zodiac boat. I'll bet you could convert this to a polling skiff by adding some type of platform or even a plat form for construction from Northern tool.


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

> Here is an idea you might consider
> I found this zodiac boat. I'll bet you could convert this to a polling skiff by adding some type of platform or even a plat form for construction from Northern tool.


I'm sorry, did I miss something? If I have some how made a error in my request, please let me know. If I somehow missed your point, please explain.

My request for this type of boat is legitimate...albeit to some might seem stupid. My reasons are not (to me at least).


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

It seems like this is what you described. 


http://spearflatsskiffs.com/?p=236#more-236


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## mudd_minnow (Oct 13, 2010)

> > Here is an idea you might consider
> > I found this zodiac boat. I'll bet you could convert this to a polling skiff by adding some type of platform or even a plat form for construction from Northern tool.
> 
> 
> ...


A 14'+ skiff, bare bones to keep weight down, pushed by a 3hp motor, light enough to be flipped upside down, picked up and put on a 6' roof rack......and be structurally strong enough to handle the rigors or traveling in said manner, and handle two fishermen?


Your request is legit. I don't believe anyone has a stupd request or idea just someone might be thinking out of the box. I was looking in several boat and yacht mags the other day and was thinking why doesn't Zodaic have a flats boat version. Most people here want the same thing. 

Here is my thought,

A zodaic boat would be ( out of the box) crazy thinking YES but, it might work. The enternet pictures I've seen shows how durabable and rigerous it can be. If you had a 14 ft zodaic boat, you can add a flooring strong enouph to hold a polling platform, run a small motor, All could be removable, 2 people can lift on top of a roof rack, or deflate and cary it.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

That is definitely thinking outside the box. We run a small zodiac at work, they are ridiculously heavy for their size! They don't plane well, and draft a lot too. The transom and floor is strong enough to bolt a platform too, but I think it wouldn't do much good. They use them a lot for tenders cause you can bounce them off anything, they are self bailing and fairly safe in a chop. 

But continuing the outside the box though train, and you know I like boat builds so don't shoot me, but what about a plastic boat? A little small but a pond hopper might do ok. Or how about a porta-boat?

http://www.pelicansport.com/index.php?language=en&category=fishingboat&nauticalboat=fishingboat

http://www.porta-bote.com/index.php


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

> It seems like this is what you described.
> 
> 
> http://spearflatsskiffs.com/?p=236#more-236


^this....I like a lot

Also been looking at this.... 

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1255282085/0

And from the same guy....

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1255402823



Muddminnow....now I see where you were coming from...my apologies....definitely outside the box, and not out of the question

Firecat...same deal, not out of the question...

And just for clarification...the rack is on the top of a trailer...think truck bed height, not the top of a car, truc or SUV...it is an extended version of a M416/M100 style trailer...

Also, I'm leaning now towards a 9.9 now...even though I have a 3hp...I think I would like the extra power, albeit even if its not that much more


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Can you post a picture of the trailer?


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

Check out this place for an idea....same concept as this guy, but trailer will be a 4x8 rather than 42" x 72"...same side wall structure, but different lid, similar lid rack

http://www.manleyorv.com/trailers/morv-utility.html


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Please consider refining your requirements.

The Ambush, Soloskiff and Marsh Hen are very small and fit the need to car-top, but you also seem to like the idea of a 16' version of a Gladesmen or FS18 style hull. While you could muscle such a hull up there, these are too big to car-top frequently IM(real world experienced)HO. Honestly, I wouldn't want a 9.9 hp for your purposes simply because it is heavy to manhandle around. You absolutely can do it, but nothing is more awkward to wrestle down a muddy bank and then attach to a floating skiff than a outboard that weighs more than 40#. If you want the extra speed of a 9.9 hp, you want a real boat with a trailer. 

I started my build trying to get the biggest little boat I could fit in my truck bed. I insisted on decks and an open cockpit and I wanted it to run fast enough that I wouldn't feel like I was just putt-putting along in a square sterned canoe. I probably sounded a lot like you. I've now made a boat that fits those requirements, but I've also discovered that the biggest little boat that I can fit in my truck bed is big enough that I really want a trailer. This doesn't bother me much because the end result is a better all-around boat than anything I could fit in the bed of my truck. 

However, when I revisit my original design parameters, I will sacrifice speed and decks for low weight. I will build a 16' by 36" wide skin on frame, bench thwart displacement hull to be powered by a Honda 2.3 hp motor. I will just putt-putt along, but it will be a dream to load/unload into little ponds and backwaters. The Ambush is built to move much faster, but it is really only a one person hull (375# max capacity/i.e. me @ 210# + motor @ 60# + tackle/cooler/gear/gas @ 25-50# = 55-75# left over for partner). 

Be very honest with yourself regarding which requirements are absolutely necessary and which are not.

Nate


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## mudd_minnow (Oct 13, 2010)

A plastic boat might be the ticket. I saw one on craigs list the other day.


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

Nate...all are good points and probably right on target...

The thing is...I like the Gladesman and fs18 shape and lines...yeah, I'd like the length...but I'm rethinking my design in length...

Honestly, what I'd like to achieve and want, and actuality may be two very different things...

I agree with the argument on the 9.9 weight...

Honestly, at this point, I may just say screw it and follow your advice and go with a stripped down version of something in the 16' range.

I'm (more than) a little indecisive right now as you can tell...

I also have another boat that I'm working on too...

Nate (and everyone else) thank you sincerely for the advise


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

"The thing is...I like the Gladesman and fs18 shape and lines...yeah, I'd like the length...but I'm rethinking my design in length..."

I might understand I liked those particular hulls' shapes and lines so much that I drew up a flat bottom version on my own. The rest is history.

BTW, if I was going to build a strip built or stitch and glue hull that was car-toppable, I would limit the length to 14' max. Even stripped down, 16' hulls are unwieldy.

Nate


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