# Does your skiff have a seacock on below waterline?



## zach (May 17, 2014)

Background - purchased a brand new skiff earlier this year from a reputable manufacturer. Over thanksgiving, my father-in-law was in the boat with my 16 month old son. Long story short, I wasn't there, somehow he kicked the hose off of the livewell pump and water started rushing into the boat - no seacock installed. Between trying to get the water stopped, watching a 16 month old with a propensity to climb over gunnels, current taking the boat into seawalls, etc - he was pretty shaken up when he returned to the dock. He ultimately stuffed a sock in the livewell pump, couldn't get the hose back on, and made it back to the dock. Lots of takeaways from this little episode. 

I'm curious, is it normal for skiffs NOT to have a seacock below waterline? Is this to save weight? This is my first skiff but every boat I've ever owned has had some sort of seacock on pumps that pull water from below the waterline. It never crossed my mind to request one during the build, nor did I notice it once we took delivery.


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

Current boat doesn't have a raw water intake, but my last one (16' flats boat made by a builder no longer in business) did have a good quality seacock at the livewell intake.

Interesting question.


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## g8rfly (Oct 9, 2011)

It's always shocking to me that some builders attach a livewell hose directly to a thru-hull, and even a nylon thru-hull...


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Is a seacock the same thing as a ball valve?


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## Cam (Apr 5, 2017)

A ball valve is a type of seacock. Basically any valve on a through hull is a seacock. I am not a huge fan of gate valves as they bind up more easily in salt water. Ball valves are better but a gate valve is certainly better than nothing.

IMO all through hull connections below the water line should have double hose clamps and a seacock if it all possible.


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## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

Cam said:


> A ball valve is a type of seacock. Basically any valve on a through hull is a seacock. I am not a huge fan of ball valves as they bind up more easily in salt water. Gate valves are better but a ball valve is certainly better than nothing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

Cam said:


> A ball valve is a type of seacock. Basically any valve on a through hull is a seacock. I am not a huge fan of ball valves as they bind up more easily in salt water. Gate valves are better but a ball valve is certainly better than nothing.
> 
> IMO all through hull connections below the water line should have double hose clamps and a seacock if it all possible.




you've got that backwards - gate valves are not to be used

ball valves are the correct choice


ABYC codes state: any fitting at or near the water line,as well as below the water line,requires a positive shut off....


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## Daz (Jul 14, 2015)

My Egret came with no shutoff before the livewell pump. I was amazed to find that it had a plastic thru-hull fitting with a pump threaded directly onto it with no means of shut off (below the waterline). It now has a bronze thru-hull fitting and a bronze ball valve before the pump. I'm getting ready to plumb another in on the drain side just so I can make the well into a dry locker . This was on an older, FL built c/K 167.


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## Luke_B (May 28, 2014)

Bet my seacock and ball valves are bigger.


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

EVERY FITTING AT OR BELOW WATERLINE MUST HAVE AN EASIlY ACCESSABLE ON/OFF VALVE


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

As others have said...
IMO Thru-hull fittings should never be anything but bronze, all thru-hull fittings should have bronze ball valves. People do weird things, I have a boat that had a PVC ball valve (replaced) on a thru hull.


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## Cam (Apr 5, 2017)

predacious said:


> you've got that backwards - gate valves are not to be used
> 
> ball valves are the correct choice
> 
> ...


You are correct... I switched them around.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I haven't' seen many super skinny skiffs come with seacocks. I wonder if maybe there is a loophole for foam filled boats? I haven't used them on my last few boats cause I really didn't' see a huge benefit. If I crack a fitting or hose I can just reach over and plug them from the outside. Even if I don't my skiff won't swamp even with 2 of us in it and the plug out. 

All that said I do want to install some on my new build. I would rather go with marelon then bronze, just hard to swallow the prices.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Separately, on the subject of kids in the boat. I started my kids around that age too. However I never went out without my wife or someone else. My job was the boat, their job was the kid, fishing takes a bit of a back seat when the really young ones are on the boat.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Had a Hewes about 20 years ago. Coming in the jetties one day and it was running sluggish / opened up the rear hatch and it was full of water. The bilge had filled up and backed through the hatch drain.

Turned out the livewell pump had cracked but there was no way to tell that since the pump was underwater and the crack was pretty small so you couldn't see the source of the water.

Bilge pump got it down pretty good but I hauled ass for the ramp, not realizing that was pushing more water in. Thought it must have a big crack in the bottom but got home and it looked fine. Had to fill the bilge with a water hose to find the source.

Turned out it had a seacock AFTER the pump and you couldn't get to the outside since the pick-up was in the tunnel so even if I had realized it was a cracked pump housing I would have had to unclamp it and try to plug it from the inside.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Many of the sinkings of bigger vessels occur when a through hull fails (and/or there's no one around to do anything since the boat's in the water tied up to a dock somewhere.... Yes, have a valve on any through hull below the waterline, no -there is one non-bronze through hull that is okay below the waterline - that's one made with marelon -and I do have one of those in place on my nearly thirty year old skiff - and it's running fine (also have a marelon valve doing just fine on another fitting.). A rule to remember with seacocks (or any valve below the waterline...)... make a point of opening and closing it once a month (or whatever time period you're comfortable with...). More than one seacock was frozen in the open position when it was needed most.... particularly bronze valves....

Lastly here's the simple emergency repair for a small skiff with a failed through hull that I was taught years ago... Simply grab a popping cork (or a lure similarly shaped) wrap in any soft plastic - then go over the side with it and jam the small end into the failed through hull opening. That emergency fix will last long enough to get you back to the ramp.... For those with bigger vessels you can actually buy cedar plugs shaped just like a popping cork designed to be hammered into a broken through hull with a mallet from inside the vessel... 

Every lesson needs a war story... More than once I've been standing at a ramp somewhere watching someone coming in way to fast... Just about when I was going to yell at them for making a big wake I realized they were in trouble... This was confirmed when, on two occasions, I watched a sinking boat get run right up onto the ramp to save it.... I imagine they worried about the scrapes on the hull bottom later.... Watching someone deliberately run up onto a ramp will have you remembering to check those through hull fittings and the valves that go with them...


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## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

firecat1981 said:


> I haven't' seen many super skinny skiffs come with seacocks. I wonder if maybe there is a loophole for foam filled boats? I haven't used them on my last few boats cause I really didn't' see a huge benefit. If I crack a fitting or hose I can just reach over and plug them from the outside. Even if I don't my skiff won't swamp even with 2 of us in it and the plug out.
> 
> All that said I do want to install some on my new build. I would rather go with marelon then bronze, just hard to swallow the prices.



using thru hulls - at or below the waterline,without a positive shut off is asking for trouble and just plain stupid. using cheap low quality plastic hosing is equally as dumb.

marelon is fine,good durable product - bronze is equally as good


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

predacious said:


> using thru hulls - at or below the waterline,without a positive shut off is asking for trouble and just plain stupid. using cheap low quality plastic hosing is equally as dumb.
> 
> marelon is fine,good durable product - bronze is equally as good


Well I guess you can call me stupid then!


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

firecat1981 said:


> Well I guess you can call me stupid then!


There are many builders that prefer Marleon to Bronze since there is no chance of failure due to electrolysis.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

What happens if the seacock fails/cracks/freezes/leaks? What happens if the connection of seacock to hull fails? Having a seacock on a thru-hull is only good if the problem is on the inboard side of the seacock. It's a good idea to carry materials that can be used to repair leaks in an emergency. Wooden plugs, plastic sheet and duct tape come to mind.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

How come no one has mentioned stainless steel, just bronze and marleon? I don't know if they make SS "seacocks," but they def make thru-hull fittings and ball valves from SS. I would imagine it would be the preferred material??

Btw, my skiff has no live well and I do not fish tournaments, so none of this is really an issue for me, but it is an interesting topic...


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

stainless doesn't mean corrosion free... and the stuff, below the water line, has a nasty habit of failing on you.... Bronze is forever but will corrode just enough over time that valves don't work properly when you really need one -that's why you make a point of working them (open and close a few times to verify they're still working properly, periodically). Marelon doesn't suffer from that problem - but is not as strong as bronze... I choose marelon for small skiffs, for a big boat it would always be bronze, every time - and keeping emergency wooden plugs to fit would be standard repair gear onboard always (I'm talking about boats big enough to live in the water -both sail and power). Trailered boats have fewer through hull (and valve) problems -as a generalization....


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

lemaymiami said:


> Many of the sinkings of bigger vessels occur when a through hull fails (and/or there's no one around to do anything since the boat's in the water tied up to a dock somewhere.... Yes, have a valve on any through hull below the waterline, no -there is one non-bronze through hull that is okay below the waterline - that's one made with marelon -and I do have one of those in place on my nearly thirty year old skiff - and it's running fine (also have a marelon valve doing just fine on another fitting.). A rule to remember with seacocks (or any valve below the waterline...)... make a point of opening and closing it once a month (or whatever time period you're comfortable with...). More than one seacock was frozen in the open position when it was needed most.... particularly bronze valves....
> 
> Lastly here's the simple emergency repair for a small skiff with a failed through hull that I was taught years ago... Simply grab a popping cork (or a lure similarly shaped) wrap in any soft plastic - then go over the side with it and jam the small end into the failed through hull opening. That emergency fix will last long enough to get you back to the ramp.... For those with bigger vessels you can actually buy cedar plugs shaped just like a popping cork designed to be hammered into a broken through hull with a mallet from inside the vessel...
> 
> Every lesson needs a war story... More than once I've been standing at a ramp somewhere watching someone coming in way to fast... Just about when I was going to yell at them for making a big wake I realized they were in trouble... This was confirmed when, on two occasions, I watched a sinking boat get run right up onto the ramp to save it.... I imagine they worried about the scrapes on the hull bottom later.... Watching someone deliberately run up onto a ramp will have you remembering to check those through hull fittings and the valves that go with them...


One of my early days going to Chandelier Islands with a rookie friend and new Sportcraft I/O, at the ramp he put a drain plug in and all was well. We started out at dusk and camped at the island, later that night while sleeping noticed cockpit is filling up with water. Bailing with a igloo icebox and using the bilge pump got the water down to check the issue. Drain plug is missing and now a quick replacement with a popping cork, what a trip. If the lower unit wasn't down we would have sunk....


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

DWJensen said:


> My Egret came with no shutoff before the livewell pump. I was amazed to find that it had a plastic thru-hull fitting with a pump threaded directly onto it with no means of shut off (below the waterline). It now has a bronze thru-hull fitting and a bronze ball valve before the pump. I'm getting ready to plumb another in on the drain side just so I can make the well into a dry locker . This was on an older, FL built c/K 167.


That bothered me on my old Egret so I added a seacock. Then I read Jim's description of how one owner didn't realize he had to put a plug in the bilge for 3 weeks and the boat just sat a few inches lower. Jim left the seacocks out to save weight since a rag could be easily stuffed in the hole.

You don't have to add a seacock to the drain to get pretty dry storage. A T handle drain plug put in from the livewell side seems to be waterproof. That has the benefit too of being easy to pull that plug on plane and drain any water that is in the livewell. You probably want a plug anyway to keep stuff from falling down the drain unless you leave the stand pipe in at all times. 

Boat builders don't have to follow ABYC but I would never buy another boat without putting ABYC standards required in the contract. New Egrets have seacocks but they use B grade fuel line below deck which is a fire hazard and the motor is bolted to a curved section of the transom which also doesn't meet ABYC nor engine manufacturer's specifications.


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## Eirus (Dec 15, 2021)

Good post and good info, here. I recently had an issue with a valve that had apparently had the handle broken off.
I thought I would just use this thread rather than making a new one. West Marine in town doesn't have the 3/4" valve I'm looking for. Think this one I found online would do it?









WakeMAKERS Bronze Ball Valve


Every properly designed ballast system must have a ball valve attached directly to the intake fitting so that the flow of water into the boat can be stopped in the event of an emergency. During normal day-to-day operation you will never need to access this valve if your system is designed...




www.wakemakers.com


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## Psycho_Killer (May 7, 2011)

bowersmw said:


> That bothered me on my old Egret so I added a seacock. Then I read Jim's description of how one owner didn't realize he had to put a plug in the bilge for 3 weeks and the boat just sat a few inches lower. Jim left the seacocks out to save weight since a rag could be easily stuffed in the hole.
> 
> You don't have to add a seacock to the drain to get pretty dry storage. A T handle drain plug put in from the livewell side seems to be waterproof. That has the benefit too of being easy to pull that plug on plane and drain any water that is in the livewell. You probably want a plug anyway to keep stuff from falling down the drain unless you leave the stand pipe in at all times.
> 
> Boat builders don't have to follow ABYC but I would never buy another boat without putting ABYC standards required in the contract. New Egrets have seacocks but they use B grade fuel line below deck which is a fire hazard and the motor is bolted to a curved section of the transom which also doesn't meet ABYC nor engine manufacturer's specifications.


Interesting …

my Egret has both inlet (before pumps) and outlet Marleon valves on both plumbed livewells. I don’t need plugs in either live well to keep them dry. The plumbing is double clamped and throughhulls are brass

also my motor is mounted on what appears to be an aluminum wedge and my fuel lines are appropriate grade


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## Psycho_Killer (May 7, 2011)

No Bait / Lures Only said:


> One of my early days going to Chandelier Islands with a rookie friend and new Sportcraft I/O, at the ramp he put a drain plug in and all was well. We started out at dusk and camped at the island, later that night while sleeping noticed cockpit is filling up with water. Bailing with a igloo icebox and using the bilge pump got the water down to check the issue. Drain plug is missing and now a quick replacement with a popping cork, what a trip. If the lower unit wasn't down we would have sunk....





LowHydrogen said:


> As others have said...
> IMO Thru-hull fittings should never be anything but bronze, all thru-hull fittings should have bronze ball valves. People do weird things, I have a boat that had a PVC ball valve (replaced) on a thru hull.


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## mt hwy (Mar 18, 2021)

Daz said:


> My Egret came with no shutoff before the livewell pump. I was amazed to find that it had a plastic thru-hull fitting with a pump threaded directly onto it with no means of shut off (below the waterline). It now has a bronze thru-hull fitting and a bronze ball valve before the pump. I'm getting ready to plumb another in on the drain side just so I can make the well into a dry locker . This was on an older, FL built c/K 167.


Wanting to use my livewell on occasion as a dry compartment too, I shut off the seacock before the pump, and then on the drain side I use a rubber stopper in the drain - I never thought to check and see if the drain hose has a seacock, maybe it has one? I'll check next time. Good idea to put one in.

When I bought my boat used and finally got around to going over everything - the livewell seacock valve handle was frozen in the partially open position. It took a fair amount of penetrant and a heat gun to get it to slightly move, and then more and more movement. Now, as Cap mentioned, its routine maintenance to open and close it several times.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

My Egret Moccaisn came with two bronze seacocks, but good luck reaching them in a crises.


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