# Looking for Scott Tidal review



## Backwater

The Scott Title is a sweet rod. I don't own one but have thrown it plenty of times. Not super fast but is a great "fishing" rod with some good lifting power. Your 8wt Mangrove is a softer rod than the Tidal and the Aetos is lighter and a faster rod, but not quite the lifting power as the other 2. Keep the other 2 and get the Tidal in a 9wt for a broader range of fishing. Or get the Tidal in an 8wt, then sell the Mangrove 8wt and buy it in the 9wt (feels like 2 totally different rods).


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## Roninrus1

I have a 10wt Tidal. Bought it for Glades/Keys area.
Weather (wind/rain) has kept my fishing here in TX limited so I have not had the opportunity to catch a bigger fish on it, but love the way it casts.
When I selected it I cast a high end Scott, mid-price range and high end TFO and Sage.
Liked the Tidal best and the price was just an added bonus.
Sorry I couldn't provide more info.


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## Gervais

I bought a tidal 8wt as my first serious fly rod last July and I am really happy with it. I cast it against similar priced rods; sage motive, redington predator (little less expense), a clutch rod (can't remember) but they were all within my budget. The Tidal was the best all around for me. I had the best accuracy at short distance with it and it has enough power to dump 80ft of line accurately. The motive was really nice though, had tons of power, and was very accurate for me at distances over 40ft. The Clutch and the predator were about the same for me and good all around but the tidal and motive stuck out of the bunch with their characteristics stated above. I ended up going with the tidal because I don't normally have to make shots over 60ft and more often than not less than 30ft. I paired it with a sage 2200 series which balances with the rod well and I'm happy with over all. 
Hope this helps,
Gerv


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## Barbs_deep

It's a great rod for the money. I would say that it is the top performer in its price range and maybe better than some higher priced rods from other companies. 

That being said I prefer other rods for my casting style but I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a tidal if that's what I had to choose from.


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## afernandez

I won the 10wt in the salty fly raffle. i only recently started using it in lieu of my 10 wt Scott STS. have not stuck anything with it yet but i like the way it casts quite a bit. like backwater said above, its not as fast in action as other newer 10wt models, but that does not bother me.


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## tailwalk

It kind of felt like two blanks combined to make one rod to me. The butt end was stiff enough to give it some power and the tip was a bit too floppy in my opinion. I remember feeling like there was a noticeable flex point in the rod vs some others that I felt were smoother through the whole blank. In the end I went in a different direction but I have no doubt the tidal is a fine rod. That said, of course nothing replaces casting it yourself. You might find it's exactly what you're looking for. The value is absolutely worth the attention.


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## mcraft173

I have both the Scott Tidal and the Sage Motive in 8wt. I also fish a Scott S4S 7wt, Scott 8wt heliply and a Sage response 9 wt. 

I really like the Tidal - I bought it just a few months after I got the Motive. The tidal is not a fast rod. I wouldnt say it is slow, just less so than the fast premium rods. Its a great rod for close in casting. With my casting abilities, I have trouble pushing this rod more than 50 or 60 feet. This is also a function of my line choice - redfish taper lines, that are at least a half size heavy. I would expect this rod's range to extend quite a bit with a longer taper and lighter grain weight. I dont really need to cast much farther than this where I fish, just quick, close and accurate. Which this rod does. I have smaller hands and I really like the grip shape and diameter on the tidal. The only thing I dont care for is the choice of hardware for the guides. I have noticed corrosion on the tip top and and rust under the wraps at the stripping guide (where I usually hook my fly). I'm not super anal about my gear, but I dont beat it up either. I rinse all my tackle with fresh water and let it air dry. As others have said - its a great value, and its sweet to cast. Despite it being "softer" it has plenty of lifting power. Ive landed 30"+ redfish on the rod no problem.

The motive is also a great rod - same class and price range as the tidal. Quite a bit stiffer. I can cast this rod quite a bit farther than the tidal with the same line. That said, I do have issues loading the rod on closer casts.


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## Backwater

mcraft173 said:


> I have both the Scott Tidal and the Sage Motive in 8wt. I also fish a Scott S4S 7wt, Scott 8wt heliply and a Sage response 9 wt.
> 
> I really like the Tidal - I bought it just a few months after I got the Motive. The tidal is not a fast rod. I wouldnt say it is slow, just less so than the fast premium rods. Its a great rod for close in casting. With my casting abilities, I have trouble pushing this rod more than 50 or 60 feet. This is also a function of my line choice - redfish taper lines, that are at least a half size heavy. I would expect this rod's range to extend quite a bit with a longer taper and lighter grain weight. I dont really need to cast much farther than this where I fish, just quick, close and accurate. Which this rod does. I have smaller hands and I really like the grip shape and diameter on the tidal. The only thing I dont care for is the choice of hardware for the guides. I have noticed corrosion on the tip top and and rust under the wraps at the stripping guide (where I usually hook my fly). I'm not super anal about my gear, but I dont beat it up either. I rinse all my tackle with fresh water and let it air dry. As others have said - its a great value, and its sweet to cast. Despite it being "softer" it has plenty of lifting power. Ive landed 30"+ redfish on the rod no problem.
> 
> The motive is also a great rod - same class and price range as the tidal. Quite a bit stiffer. I can cast this rod quite a bit farther than the tidal with the same line. That said, I do have issues loading the rod on closer casts.


What line do you have on the Motive?


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## T Bone

Awesome replies, guys. I appreciate the feedback. I enjoy the comparison to the Motive as that is another rod on my list.


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## mcraft173

Ted - 
I primarily fished the rio redfish line on the motive. The older version, not the new winter/summer iterations. I honestly dont fish it that much anymore - I use it primarily as a loaner rod for friends during flood tide season and when I go to the bahamas.

I also have the airflo bonefish/tropical line and the SA bruce chard tropical punch (before Airflo started making it) but I can recall if Ive ever tried those lines on the motive. I would expect both to do well with it.


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## Backwater

mcraft173 said:


> Ted -
> I primarily fished the rio redfish line on the motive. The older version, not the new winter/summer iterations. I honestly dont fish it that much anymore - I use it primarily as a loaner rod for friends during flood tide season and when I go to the bahamas.
> 
> I also have the airflo bonefish/tropical line and the SA bruce chard tropical punch (before Airflo started making it) but I can recall if Ive ever tried those lines on the motive. I would expect both to do well with it.


I didn't know where you fished, for what and what your needs were out of both rods, but if you were throwing a short redfish line on the Tidal and a longer head/taper fly line on the motive, then I would have said switch them to see how both rods change with it.

I was going to suggest that if you went to a lighter line, more standard taper and head fly line on the Tidal, the rod would probably behave better at longer distances. I had no problems with that type of line, picking it up, making one or 2 false cast with it and then shoot it back out to 70ft. Like I said, it's more of a "fishing" rod, than a light, fast and distance "casting" rod, like the Motive or Method.


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## mcraft173

Ted - I fish in Jacksonville for redfish. Except for the winter (and even then) our water is dirty. So most of my fishing is for flood tailers, or low tide fishing for fish that are backing or pushing water. I have used the the SA general saltwater taper coldwater line, but I thought that line sucked on the rods I fished it with. I also prefer heavier flies. So the short taper heavy lines allow me to load the rod quickly. I'm not great at shooting line, so on longer casts, I find the tidal to not have enough ass to control much more than 50 feet outside the rod - it gets noodly. My distance gets better with lighter bead chain eyes though. I am sure a lot if this has to do with casting technique - or I could just throw a 9 wt.

Your assessment of a "fishing" rod is spot on. It may not win any casting contests (and neither am I for that matter) but it is a fun rod for the way I fish.


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## coconutgroves

@mcraft173 - the Tidal is a fast rod. It may not feel that way because the Rio Redfish line you have on it is actually closer to a 10wt line. Call it 9.5 wt. That is seriously over lining the Tidal where I can see why you can't get it further than 50 to 60.

@T Bone - I have a 7 wt Tidal with Wulff Bermuda Taper Shorts line. Can easily punch it 80 feet. I primarily use this rod for reds and bass. Again, it is a fast rod, very easy casting and loading. Easy to cast at close range, but can still be punched far if needed.

They key is matching with a good line. It is known on these boards that I despise the Rio Redfish line. It's BS that Rio calls it an 8 wt line when it is a light 10 wt. If you want a line that is good for close shots, get a line with a short head, like the BTT shorts. Rods should not be over lined. It allows for bad habits and mechanics to be formed.

Back to the rod. For the money, it is one of the best values on the market. Backwater is spot on with his advice. The Mangrove is softer and more of a med to fast rod as a comparison. For a novice, I would recommend the Mangrove. For an intermediate to expert, the Tidal is a great choice.


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## 994

Between the wulff Bermuda shorts, BTT, and Cortland LC/ guide, what line do you think fits this rod the best?


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## Nway93

I own the 6wt and have fished the 7wt multiple times. Not as fast or smooth as the meridian but for the money its a great rod. I have the LC guide on the 6wt and have used the 7wt with BTT and 6wt Airflo ridge. I think underlining by one line weight with the airflo is the best all around combo for the tidal that I've used. Would do it on my 6wt but the don't make a 5wt line.


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## Backwater

Nway93, the LQ Guide 6wt is actually 6.5wt, so you are in fact overlining it. You would do better with it using the standard LQ. Also, since you like a faster rod like the Meridian, but want to continue to use the 6wt Tidal, then with the LQ (not guide), the Airflo Chard or the BTT, slow down your casting stroke, don't air as much line and don't punch the shoot and your Tidal will wake up and do the work for you, shooting plenty of line out just fine. It's all in your casting stroke.


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## Backwater

mcraft173 said:


> I also prefer heavier flies. So the short taper heavy lines allow me to load the rod quickly. I'm not great at shooting line, so on longer casts, I find the tidal to not have enough ass to control much more than 50 feet outside the rod - it gets noodly. My distance gets better with lighter bead chain eyes though. I am sure a lot if this has to do with casting technique - or I could just throw a 9 wt.
> .


A rod getting noodly is an indicator that it's collapsing due to being overloaded. There are several causes of this happening and remedies to fix it.
*
1.)*, Like coconutgroves said, it's being overlined with a heavy weighted line. I recommend short heavier lines for guys with faster or stiffer rods wanting to throw short and quick (without the casting skills to do so). It can, however, be a crutch.

The properties of the Tidal (as well as many rods with similar properties) is a fast rod (not extra fast), even leaning to the fast end of being a med/fast rod, with a little more buildup in the butt section for lifting, which makes it a good all-around saltwater rod, especially throwing "normal" fishing casts (not hero distance casts). The rod by natures loads easier and quicker than an extra-fast or stiff rod like the Meridian, the Method, Clutch, BVK, Axiom, Helios 2, Zephyrus, etc., with an easier casting stroke, even with a standard general purpose saltwater tapered line. In other words, it really doesn't need a short, heavier head to load short and quick if you understand the rod and adjust your casting around the rod.

With that being said, there are several things you can do. Not to get too technical about it, but the understanding on what is happening, will help you tap into the rods attributes, and limit the causes of things that hinder it's efficiencies. If the rod get's noodly when aeralizing 50ft of Rio Redfish line, then aerialize less line before you shoot it. A noodly or collapsing rod says it's overloaded. The total head weight in any flylines is designed to efficiently load the rod, in accordance to the designing nature of the flyline, their lengths and taper of the line. Carrying more line is just adding more shooting line weight to the head, which, not only is redundant, but can work against the already loaded rod, thereby causing a failure of the kinetic energy stored in the rod. The greater flex will cause an arch in the traveling rod tip and therefore dissipating the energy in the line. Also the extended flex will cause a repercussion bouncing in the rod and a 2nd and 3rd harmonic bounce vibrations will cause harmonic shock waves in the line, furthering a damping of the line's energy.

Here's an interesting misleading "factiod" that is circulating in the fly fishing community._"Short, heavy fly line heads carry big heavy flies better and cast them further."_ *Not true! *However, they do help to load them quickly and throw them short distances, better than a longer thinner heads with a long taper, much like casting any flies for short distances (i.e. redfish fishing in LA where that type of casting is needed). This might be one of the reasons you are having trouble breaking 50ft with that setup.

Therefore, *2.)* Standard flats saltwater tapers carries those same heavy and/or bulky flies, better on normal to longer distances, than the short heads, as long as you open up your loops a bit, instead of trying to throw tight loops. There are big shooting heads however, like a SA Titan and the heavy head of a Rio Leviathan there you are basically doing a "chunk and duck" type of casting of those flies, especially in the wind. But there is not much presentation to the landing of those flylines nor the fly. Ok in rough weather, but not so good in normal conditions. So going to a standard saltwater taper like a Cortland LQ, a Wulff BTT, a SA Mastery Series Saltwater, Rio General Purpose Saltwater, AirFlo Chard Tropical Punch or some specialty lines will do the job just fine at distances of 30-60 or more feet.

*3.)* I see a lot of fly fishermen that don't seem to know what size flies are proper to throw with what size flyline, and therefore, what size fly rods. Knowing the proper size flies your rod and flyline is capable of casting and carrying, is one of the keys to making a good cast. _"Remember, you are casting the flyline, not the fly. The fly is simply along for the ride!"_ Flies that are too big and/or too heavy for a particular size rod and line, will cause the flyline and rod to struggle. Knowing that fact and matching the flies right to the flyline and rod, will dramatically improve your casting. An example is.... I've seen guys casting flies on an 8wt that should have been used on a 10wt.... and they wonder why they are having a problem throwing them. The reverse of this is "it's not as important throwing smaller flies on heavier rods and lines," However, throwing small flies to small fish with larger size fly lines and rods, creates it's own set of problems (I'm sure you get the picture, but if not, we'll leave that for another discussion).

*4.)* *Slow down your casting stroke! *Slowing down the speed of your casting stroke on slightly slower rods, allows the rod to fully and completely load. This just happened to me 3 days ago. I was fishing with an extra fast rod and then picked up my buddies new "med/fast" rod and started having all kinds of problems. Then I slowed down my stroke and the rod woke up and responded and I was back to throwing the same distances with a slower stroke.

The slower rod takes a bit more time for the tip to travel back to each position, than a faster tip and/or stiffer rod. That tip travel is also traveling further between each flex tension position. Therefore it's important to wait on it. Not waiting will take the stored power of the rod out of the equation and therefore not completely load the rod.

Slowing down the casting strokes also waits for the flyline to fully and completely roll out (unfurl). That is important to elongate the line and properly transition the energy straight into the opposite direction. In other words, allowing the flyline to completely unroll on each leg (both forward and back cast) of your casting stroke, it allows for a complete and efficient transfer of energy in the fly line to help load the rod quickly and develop more line speed to help shoot the line further. The best way to do this is to watch your loops unroll out before you start your stroke in the opposition direction, both forward and back cast. This will mean turning and watching your loop unroll out behind you before you start the forward motion. For you advance guys, you can add a bit of drifting at the end of each stroke to help those loops unroll completely out and extent your stroke travel distances (thereby gaining line speed).

Speaking of advance tips.... Throw the line slightly higher on your back cast, than your front cast, then shoot a bit of line back and then drifting back, waiting for the line to completely unroll out (taking only split seconds), causes the line to start falling once it is almost unfurled. That falling motion (basic gravity) of the fly line (maybe taking only a second or 2) will cause more tension on the rod, therefore requiring less line length and therefore line weight to apply the same amount of tension to load the rod. By that time, the loop unrolls out and with the total head dropping a bit, the line is level with a straight rod tip path, therefore making an efficient transfer of flyline energy in an absolutely straight path on the forward motion. This straight line path will minimize any energy loss and equate to higher line speed without making your casting stroke any faster on the "shoot" (aside from the dbl haul). Just food for thought.

*5.)* Finally, slightly open up your loops when throwing heavy or bushy flies will help cast them further. Those type of flies will normally slag and drag below your flyline on tight loops type of casting method. Opening up your loops a bit will keep your fly away from your flyline, avoiding problems (catching the line or creating tailing loops). I see people purposing opening up their loops for this reason by creating an arch in their rod's travel path. That's ok for short distances, but creates a problem when throwing further than 30-40ft. Instead, keep your rod tip path traveling straight as you normally would for normal to distance casting, but then at the very end of each "abrupt stop" at the end of each stroke, slightly drop or rolll the rod tip downward at the end of each stop. This maintains the line energy while opening up a slight loop (ideally a 2-3ft high loop, depending on the need).

Another way of keeping an open loop, while maintaining flyline energy and speed to throw larger and heavier flies, especially in windy conditions is doing a "Continuous Loop Cast", an "Oval Cast" or a "Belgium Cast" (all the same thing). You can do a search on this Fly Fishing Forum to find videos of these styles of casting techniques, we've recently posted on a thread about casting heavy flies in the winds. Just type "Belgium Cast" on the search bar.

Good luck.

Ted Haas


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## bananabob

Excellent info there.
Thanks Ted


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## YnR

Backwater said:


> A rod getting noodly is an indicator that it's collapsing due to being overloaded. There are several causes of this happening and remedies to fix it.
> *
> 1.)*, Like coconutgroves said, it's being overlined with a heavy weighted line. I recommend short heavier lines for guys with faster or stiffer rods wanting to throw short and quick (without the casting skills to do so). It can, however, be a crutch.
> 
> The properties of the Tidal (as well as many rods with similar properties) is a fast rod (not extra fast), even leaning to the fast end of being a med/fast rod, with a little more buildup in the butt section for lifting, which makes it a good all-around saltwater rod, especially throwing "normal" fishing casts (not hero distance casts). The rod by natures loads easier and quicker than an extra-fast or stiff rod like the Meridian, the Method, Clutch, BVK, Axiom, Helios 2, Zephyrus, etc., with an easier casting stroke, even with a standard general purpose saltwater tapered line. In other words, it really doesn't need a short, heavier head to load short and quick if you understand the rod and adjust your casting around the rod.
> 
> With that being said, there are several things you can do. Not to get too technical about it, but the understanding on what is happening, will help you tap into the rods attributes, and limit the causes of things that hinder it's efficiencies. If the rod get's noodly when aeralizing 50ft of Rio Redfish line, then aerialize less line before you shoot it. A noodly or collapsing rod says it's overloaded. The total head weight in any flylines is designed to efficiently load the rod, in accordance to the designing nature of the flyline, their lengths and taper of the line. Carrying more line is just adding more shooting line weight to the head, which, not only is redundant, but can work against the already loaded rod, thereby causing a failure of the kinetic energy stored in the rod. The greater flex will cause an arch in the traveling rod tip and therefore dissipating the energy in the line. Also the extended flex will cause a repercussion bouncing in the rod and a 2nd and 3rd harmonic bounce vibrations will cause harmonic shock waves in the line, furthering a damping of the line's energy.
> 
> Here's an interesting misleading "factiod" that is circulating in the fly fishing community._"Short, heavy fly line heads carry big heavy flies better and cast them further."_ *Not true! *However, they do help to load them quickly and throw them short distances, better than a longer thinner heads with a long taper, much like casting any flies for short distances (i.e. redfish fishing in LA where that type of casting is needed). This might be one of the reasons you are having trouble breaking 50ft with that setup.
> 
> Therefore, *2.)* Standard flats saltwater tapers carries those same heavy and/or bulky flies, better on normal to longer distances, than the short heads, as long as you open up your loops a bit, instead of trying to throw tight loops. There are big shooting heads however, like a SA Titan and the heavy head of a Rio Leviathan there you are basically doing a "chunk and duck" type of casting of those flies, especially in the wind. But there is not much presentation to the landing of those flylines nor the fly. Ok in rough weather, but not so good in normal conditions. So going to a standard saltwater taper like a Cortland LQ, a Wulff BTT, a SA Mastery Series Saltwater, Rio General Purpose Saltwater, AirFlo Chard Tropical Punch or some specialty lines will do the job just fine at distances of 30-60 or more feet.
> 
> *3.)* I see a lot of fly fishermen that don't seem to know what size flies are proper to throw with what size flyline, and therefore, what size fly rods. Knowing the proper size flies your rod and flyline is capable of casting and carrying, is one of the keys to making a good cast. _"Remember, you are casting the flyline, not the fly. The fly is simply along for the ride!"_ Flies that are too big and/or too heavy for a particular size rod and line, will cause the flyline and rod to struggle. Knowing that fact and matching the flies right to the flyline and rod, will dramatically improve your casting. An example is.... I've seen guys casting flies on an 8wt that should have been used on a 10wt.... and they wonder why they are having a problem throwing them. The reverse of this is "it's not as important throwing smaller flies on heavier rods and lines," However, throwing small flies to small fish with larger size fly lines and rods, creates it's own set of problems (I'm sure you get the picture, but if not, we'll leave that for another discussion).
> 
> *4.)* *Slow down your casting stroke! *Slowing down the speed of your casting stroke on slightly slower rods, allows the rod to fully and completely load. This just happened to me 3 days ago. I was fishing with an extra fast rod and then picked up my buddies new "med/fast" rod and started having all kinds of problems. Then I slowed down my stroke and the rod woke up and responded and I was back to throwing the same distances with a slower stroke.
> 
> The slower rod takes a bit more time for the tip to travel back to each position, than a faster tip and/or stiffer rod. That tip travel is also traveling further between each flex tension position. Therefore it's important to wait on it. Not waiting will take the stored power of the rod out of the equation and therefore not completely load the rod.
> 
> Slowing down the casting strokes also waits for the flyline to fully and completely roll out (unfurl). That is important to elongate the line and properly transition the energy straight into the opposite direction. In other words, allowing the flyline to completely unroll on each leg (both forward and back cast) of your casting stroke, it allows for a complete and efficient transfer of energy in the fly line to help load the rod quickly and develop more line speed to help shoot the line further. The best way to do this is to watch your loops unroll out before you start your stroke in the opposition direction, both forward and back cast. This will mean turning and watching your loop unroll out behind you before you start the forward motion. For you advance guys, you can add a bit of drifting at the end of each stroke to help those loops unroll completely out and extent your stroke travel distances (thereby gaining line speed).
> 
> Speaking of advance tips.... Throw the line slightly higher on your back cast, than your front cast, then shoot a bit of line back and then drifting back, waiting for the line to completely unroll out (taking only split seconds), causes the line to start falling once it is almost unfurled. That falling motion (basic gravity) of the fly line (maybe taking only a second or 2) will cause more tension on the rod, therefore requiring less line length and therefore line weight to apply the same amount of tension to load the rod. By that time, the loop unrolls out and with the total head dropping a bit, the line is level with a straight rod tip path, therefore making an efficient transfer of flyline energy in an absolutely straight path on the forward motion. This straight line path will minimize any energy loss and equate to higher line speed without making your casting stroke any faster on the "shoot" (aside from the dbl haul). Just food for thought.
> 
> *5.)* Finally, slightly open up your loops when throwing heavy or bushy flies will help cast them further. Those type of flies will normally slag and drag below your flyline on tight loops type of casting method. Opening up your loops a bit will keep your fly away from your flyline, avoiding problems (catching the line or creating tailing loops). I see people purposing opening up their loops for this reason by creating an arch in their rod's travel path. That's ok for short distances, but creates a problem when throwing further than 30-40ft. Instead, keep your rod tip path traveling straight as you normally would for normal to distance casting, but then at the very end of each "abrupt stop" at the end of each stroke, slightly drop or rolll the rod tip downward at the end of each stop. This maintains the line energy while opening up a slight loop (ideally a 2-3ft high loop, depending on the need).
> 
> Another way of keeping an open loop, while maintaining flyline energy and speed to throw larger and heavier flies, especially in windy conditions is doing a "Continuous Loop Cast", an "Oval Cast" or a "Belgium Cast" (all the same thing). You can do a search on this Fly Fishing Forum to find videos of these styles of casting techniques, we've recently posted on a thread about casting heavy flies in the winds. Just type "Belgium Cast" on the search bar.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Ted Haas



Can someone please explain why a lot of the redfish lines like Rio's (240 grams with 30' head) are considered heavier than stated but the the Wulff BTT (243 grams with 30' head) is not? By those numbers both should be 9wt lines and both should have the same benefit of allowing for short but quick casts but an inability to throw far.


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## 994

YnR said:


> Can someone please explain why a lot of the redfish lines like Rio's (240 grams with 30' head) are considered heavier than stated but the the Wulff BTT (243 grams with 30' head) is not? By those numbers both should be 9wt lines and both should have the same benefit of allowing for short but quick casts but an inability to throw far.


I thought rio redfish was around 290, and the new "summer" redfish was around 270. I'm sure someone will correct me on that.


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## YnR

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I thought rio redfish was around 290, and the new "summer" redfish was around 270. I'm sure someone will correct me on that.



I only took what was off their website but not sure


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## Backwater

YnR said:


> Can someone please explain why a lot of the redfish lines like Rio's (240 grams with 30' head) are considered heavier than stated but the the Wulff BTT (243 grams with 30' head) is not? By those numbers both should be 9wt lines and both should have the same benefit of allowing for short but quick casts but an inability to throw far.


ll have to leave that question with guys like coconutgroves and el9surf who have experience with the Wulff BTT. That's a line I really haven't done a feelski yet. 

Maybe Joan will send me one!


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## Finn Maccumhail

I have the Tidal in a 10wt and it's probably my favorite rod. I use it for bull reds in LA, big jacks, and smaller tarpon (landed up to around 70# on it). It's a fast action rod compared to classic tapers but it's not the ridiculously fast action you get with so many rods today. I wouldn't call it a "progressive taper" but it's not ultra-fast.

It's responsive enough to load easily for chip shots but can definitely bomb out casts when needed. I've also found that I can easily pick up 50' of line off the water to reload for a cast when I need to change directions so I don't have to strip in a ton of line.

I forget what line I've got on it right now, I think it's the previous generation of Rio Tarpon Taper WF10F (it's the one that the entire line is light blue) and it's well mated to the rod. I first had Airflo Sniper Tropical Tarpon and that did not work well at all. It was way too aggressive for the Tidal and it felt like it sort of hinged the rod when casting it. Substantially over-lined the rod.


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## T Bone

Does anybody have any experience with the Tidal in a 9wt? Care to share?


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## 994

T Bone said:


> Does anybody have any experience with the Tidal in a 9wt? Care to share?


I have the Tidal in 6-11wt. The 9 is comparable to the 8, just a tad heavier. Same progressive action. Sometimes that jump from 8-9wt yields a completely different rod, but that’s not my observations with the Tidal. Great rods.


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## Backwater

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I have the Tidal in 6-11wt. The 9 is comparable to the 8, just a tad heavier. Same progressive action. Sometimes that jump from 8-9wt yields a completely different rod, but that’s not my observations with the Tidal. Great rods.


I wish you could count on all rods in the same make and model that have a certain feel and action, follow the same in all weight class. Unfortunately, that's a difficult trait to find in a fly rod series.


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## SC on the FLY

I cast one in an 8wt , would be a nice pair with regular Triangle Taper, got to let the rod do the work, not super fast but it’s a nice casting rod


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## Finn Maccumhail

SC on the FLY said:


> I cast one in an 8wt , would be a nice pair with regular Triangle Taper, got to let the rod do the work, not super fast but it’s a nice casting rod


I got the Tidal in 8wt last fall and have really enjoyed it. It's a great all around rod IMHO. I'd have to double-check but I think I've got the Bermuda Shorts Triangle Taper and it's well paired with the rod.


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## saltyhackle

Backwater said:


> A rod getting noodly is an indicator that it's collapsing due to being overloaded. There are several causes of this happening and remedies to fix it.
> 
> *1.)*, Like coconutgroves said, it's being overlined with a heavy weighted line. I recommend short heavier lines for guys with faster or stiffer rods wanting to throw short and quick (without the casting skills to do so). It can, however, be a crutch.
> 
> The properties of the Tidal (as well as many rods with similar properties) is a fast rod (not extra fast), even leaning to the fast end of being a med/fast rod, with a little more buildup in the butt section for lifting, which makes it a good all-around saltwater rod, especially throwing "normal" fishing casts (not hero distance casts). The rod by natures loads easier and quicker than an extra-fast or stiff rod like the Meridian, the Method, Clutch, BVK, Axiom, Helios 2, Zephyrus, etc., with an easier casting stroke, even with a standard general purpose saltwater tapered line. In other words, it really doesn't need a short, heavier head to load short and quick if you understand the rod and adjust your casting around the rod.
> 
> With that being said, there are several things you can do. Not to get too technical about it, but the understanding on what is happening, will help you tap into the rods attributes, and limit the causes of things that hinder it's efficiencies. If the rod get's noodly when aeralizing 50ft of Rio Redfish line, then aerialize less line before you shoot it. A noodly or collapsing rod says it's overloaded. The total head weight in any flylines is designed to efficiently load the rod, in accordance to the designing nature of the flyline, their lengths and taper of the line. Carrying more line is just adding more shooting line weight to the head, which, not only is redundant, but can work against the already loaded rod, thereby causing a failure of the kinetic energy stored in the rod. The greater flex will cause an arch in the traveling rod tip and therefore dissipating the energy in the line. Also the extended flex will cause a repercussion bouncing in the rod and a 2nd and 3rd harmonic bounce vibrations will cause harmonic shock waves in the line, furthering a damping of the line's energy.
> 
> Here's an interesting misleading "factiod" that is circulating in the fly fishing community._"Short, heavy fly line heads carry big heavy flies better and cast them further."_ *Not true! *However, they do help to load them quickly and throw them short distances, better than a longer thinner heads with a long taper, much like casting any flies for short distances (i.e. redfish fishing in LA where that type of casting is needed). This might be one of the reasons you are having trouble breaking 50ft with that setup.
> 
> Therefore, *2.)* Standard flats saltwater tapers carries those same heavy and/or bulky flies, better on normal to longer distances, than the short heads, as long as you open up your loops a bit, instead of trying to throw tight loops. There are big shooting heads however, like a SA Titan and the heavy head of a Rio Leviathan there you are basically doing a "chunk and duck" type of casting of those flies, especially in the wind. But there is not much presentation to the landing of those flylines nor the fly. Ok in rough weather, but not so good in normal conditions. So going to a standard saltwater taper like a Cortland LQ, a Wulff BTT, a SA Mastery Series Saltwater, Rio General Purpose Saltwater, AirFlo Chard Tropical Punch or some specialty lines will do the job just fine at distances of 30-60 or more feet.
> 
> *3.)* I see a lot of fly fishermen that don't seem to know what size flies are proper to throw with what size flyline, and therefore, what size fly rods. Knowing the proper size flies your rod and flyline is capable of casting and carrying, is one of the keys to making a good cast. _"Remember, you are casting the flyline, not the fly. The fly is simply along for the ride!"_ Flies that are too big and/or too heavy for a particular size rod and line, will cause the flyline and rod to struggle. Knowing that fact and matching the flies right to the flyline and rod, will dramatically improve your casting. An example is.... I've seen guys casting flies on an 8wt that should have been used on a 10wt.... and they wonder why they are having a problem throwing them. The reverse of this is "it's not as important throwing smaller flies on heavier rods and lines," However, throwing small flies to small fish with larger size fly lines and rods, creates it's own set of problems (I'm sure you get the picture, but if not, we'll leave that for another discussion).
> 
> *4.)* *Slow down your casting stroke! *Slowing down the speed of your casting stroke on slightly slower rods, allows the rod to fully and completely load. This just happened to me 3 days ago. I was fishing with an extra fast rod and then picked up my buddies new "med/fast" rod and started having all kinds of problems. Then I slowed down my stroke and the rod woke up and responded and I was back to throwing the same distances with a slower stroke.
> 
> The slower rod takes a bit more time for the tip to travel back to each position, than a faster tip and/or stiffer rod. That tip travel is also traveling further between each flex tension position. Therefore it's important to wait on it. Not waiting will take the stored power of the rod out of the equation and therefore not completely load the rod.
> 
> Slowing down the casting strokes also waits for the flyline to fully and completely roll out (unfurl). That is important to elongate the line and properly transition the energy straight into the opposite direction. In other words, allowing the flyline to completely unroll on each leg (both forward and back cast) of your casting stroke, it allows for a complete and efficient transfer of energy in the fly line to help load the rod quickly and develop more line speed to help shoot the line further. The best way to do this is to watch your loops unroll out before you start your stroke in the opposition direction, both forward and back cast. This will mean turning and watching your loop unroll out behind you before you start the forward motion. For you advance guys, you can add a bit of drifting at the end of each stroke to help those loops unroll completely out and extent your stroke travel distances (thereby gaining line speed).
> 
> Speaking of advance tips.... Throw the line slightly higher on your back cast, than your front cast, then shoot a bit of line back and then drifting back, waiting for the line to completely unroll out (taking only split seconds), causes the line to start falling once it is almost unfurled. That falling motion (basic gravity) of the fly line (maybe taking only a second or 2) will cause more tension on the rod, therefore requiring less line length and therefore line weight to apply the same amount of tension to load the rod. By that time, the loop unrolls out and with the total head dropping a bit, the line is level with a straight rod tip path, therefore making an efficient transfer of flyline energy in an absolutely straight path on the forward motion. This straight line path will minimize any energy loss and equate to higher line speed without making your casting stroke any faster on the "shoot" (aside from the dbl haul). Just food for thought.
> 
> *5.)* Finally, slightly open up your loops when throwing heavy or bushy flies will help cast them further. Those type of flies will normally slag and drag below your flyline on tight loops type of casting method. Opening up your loops a bit will keep your fly away from your flyline, avoiding problems (catching the line or creating tailing loops). I see people purposing opening up their loops for this reason by creating an arch in their rod's travel path. That's ok for short distances, but creates a problem when throwing further than 30-40ft. Instead, keep your rod tip path traveling straight as you normally would for normal to distance casting, but then at the very end of each "abrupt stop" at the end of each stroke, slightly drop or rolll the rod tip downward at the end of each stop. This maintains the line energy while opening up a slight loop (ideally a 2-3ft high loop, depending on the need).
> 
> Another way of keeping an open loop, while maintaining flyline energy and speed to throw larger and heavier flies, especially in windy conditions is doing a "Continuous Loop Cast", an "Oval Cast" or a "Belgium Cast" (all the same thing). You can do a search on this Fly Fishing Forum to find videos of these styles of casting techniques, we've recently posted on a thread about casting heavy flies in the winds. Just type "Belgium Cast" on the search bar.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Ted Haas


I know I'm a few years late on this discussion and bringing up an old post might be weird, but as I am looking at picking up an 8wt Tidal, I found your post extremely helpful and enlightening. Thank you for sharing such valuable information. If I may, I have one question for you- what style line do you think fits the Tidal best (8wt)? I'm looking at the SA Mastery Saltwater and the more aggressive SA Grand Slam. I currently have a bonefish line on my other 8wt and I'm looking to use this rod + line to throw patterns that are too big for that line to turn over.


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## Gervais

saltyhackle said:


> I know I'm a few years late on this discussion and bringing up an old post might be weird, but as I am looking at picking up an 8wt Tidal, I found your post extremely helpful and enlightening. Thank you for sharing such valuable information. If I may, I have one question for you- what style line do you think fits the Tidal best (8wt)? I'm looking at the SA Mastery Saltwater and the more aggressive SA Grand Slam. I currently have a bonefish line on my other 8wt and I'm looking to use this rod + line to throw patterns that are too big for that line to turn over.


I’ve tried quite a few lines on my tidal and have been pleased with the SA mastery lines. The mastery redfish casts well for close to mid range shots. A true line weight or a half weight over seems to feel the best. The Rio lines that are a whole line weight over overwhelm it a little. I use mastery redfish cold water in a 7wt on it in the winter when throwing smaller flies to spooky fish.


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## saltyhackle

Gervais said:


> I’ve tried quite a few lines on my tidal and have been pleased with the SA mastery lines. The mastery redfish casts well for close to mid range shots. A true line weight or a half weight over seems to feel the best. The Rio lines that are a whole line weight over overwhelm it a little. I use mastery redfish cold water in a 7wt on it in the winter when throwing smaller flies to spooky fish.


Ok nice! Thanks for sharing. I've had the same experience with Rio on my mangrove, those lines are heavy as ****. Will definitely be choosing something true(er) to weight with SA.


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## georgiadrifter

I have a Tidal in 7-weight paired with an Everglades and the Rio All-purpose Saltwater line. I use it to blind cast the mangroves for snook and small tarpon. I’ve caught both on the Tidal. I must it admit I throw tighter loops with the Tidal. Distance and accuracy have improved as well. I guess choosing a flyrod is like buying shoes. Some folks will like it and some folks won’t. I guess you won’t know till you cast one.


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## HoseMonkey

My buddy has the tidal 9wt and I use it often, probably more than him. I absolutely love it. Loads up nicely, shoots out line so smooth, I can make very accurate close shots and shots up to 50-60ft no problem. I just love the way that rod loads and works. If I have 15-20ft of line in the water and need to make a quick cast to another spot, the rod easily picks the line up and I can make that placement quickly. If theirs a shop that carries one around you, go in and ask if you can cast it.


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## Speckled Rat Poon

I fished a Tidal mousing on the White River. That's blind casting at night in fog...so difficult. I wasn't a huge fan of the Tidal as it seems much slower than my salt rods (Asquith 9 wt, BVK 8 wt and Reddington Predator 8 wt). For my taste I'd look hard at a BVK or Predator before a Tidal....the Asquith is a different level rod, but the BVK and Predator are comparable. As mentioned earlier it is certainly possible (and necessary) to slow down your stroke, but it isn't as easy to do as it is to type when you're used to faster rods. That said, even when slowed down the Tidal isn't going to deliver much beyond 60-70 feet in my view.


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## jramzscott

Great thread. I’m still in market for a Scott Tidal 9wt (or something similar. If anyone is selling, please reach out. Thanks!


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