# how shallow u can run WOT in gheenoe classic?



## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

If you want to run in 6 you will need tabs(lenco-minis ), 4 blade(heavy cupped), Jackplate, a sandbar and a witness(me)


A tiller extension might help you throw your weight foward.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Good start with the jack plate. Central Florida Props, http://www.centralfloridaprops.com , has done a lot of performance testing on props for microskiffs. They are not a discount prop shop but they will make you the best perfoming prop.

From what I have heard 4 blade 13 pitch heavily cupped is going to give you the best numbers. Realisticly if you can run in 8" you are doing great. Remember the prop is at least 10" in diameter. So running in anything less means the rear of the boat is probably jacked up out of the water and then part of the prop is also out of the water too.


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## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

> Good start with the jack plate. Central Florida Props, http://www.centralfloridaprops.com , has done a lot of performance testing on props for microskiffs. They are not a discount prop shop but they will make you the best perfoming prop.
> 
> From what I have heard 4 blade 13 pitch heavily cupped is going to give you the best numbers. Realisticly if you can run in 8" you are doing great. Remember the prop is at least 10" in diameter. So running in anything less means the rear of the boat is probably jacked up out of the water and then part of the prop is also out of the water too.


Good info, the guys at central florida propeller are great.

If you need a witness(fishing buddy) let me know, I would like to get some "real" numbers.

I saw AC run through water that was at least 5" deep just ask Lone Ranger.


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## Ron_W. (Dec 14, 2006)

My Noe is a little heavy but with the jack all the way up 8" above the factory transom I can barely make a short hop over a 6" deep bar, but I'm loseing water flow to the pump intake and need to lower the jack an inch to maintain cooling. With 8 to 10 inches of water I'm good but need about 15" to get on plane. Tabs may get the rear end up and get you close but I dout your motor will let you run that shallow. AC has run his boats very shallow but I believe has blown three motors in the process.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm going to have TSG's electric jackplate on my gheenoe and I wanted to know for minimal height to maxium height above the transom. Which height is best suited for top speed at min. And running shallow at max. Height. I will have 2 different setup to put it on.

1. +2.5" to +6.75" above the transom

OR

2.+3.5" to +7.75" above the transom

I want a lowest setting for topspeed and raise it up to run shallow. The jp travel is 4.25 inches vertical lift.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

You are probably closer to what will work with the 1st one. Your best bet is to let TomC install it. He will set it up properly for you.


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## tojo (Dec 12, 2006)

> . AC has run his boats very shallow but I believe has blown three motors in the process.


Ron,

What exactly was the cause? Did they fry or was there impact damage? One of the things I am considering now is whether or not I actually want to shell out the money for an SS prop, or do I want to commit to a yearly replacement on an aluminum job. My rationale is that I fear an SS prop might do damage to the lower unit of my motor from continually "bumping" the bottom on oyster areas around where I fish. From what I have read, performance enhancing effects of SS props on Gheenoes are negligible.


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## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

> > . AC has run his boats very shallow but I believe has blown three motors in the process.
> 
> 
> Ron,
> ...


I dont think AC has blown 3 motors by running "the Skinny". He just uses everything on his boats to the fullest.

He has Probably blown one but as far as I know he has only blown one seeing as the others are still in use.

tojo, I dont think a SS prop will do anything bad too your boat or motor but, thats just me. ;D


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## tojo (Dec 12, 2006)

> > > . AC has run his boats very shallow but I believe has blown three motors in the process.
> >
> >
> > Ron,
> ...



But will it do anything (significant) good. How much does everyone think a "dialed in" SS prop will INCREASE performance. Does performance=cost??

Tanner, Didn't you get an SS prop and determine that it did not increase your performance?

Tony


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2007)

I attached a copy of my post from the Gheenoe forum - same subject.  Ron at Central Florida Prop can confirm our test results and the prop I settled with.   The last prop he built for me would keep the nose down as I jacked up so I didn't need TNT. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post on Gheenoe forum:

Hate to be the one to break it to you but the best you can hope for is 8". I'm talking about a maintained draft and not just skipping over a bar. If I had installed tabs I may have gotten one to two inches less but would have had to try it to see if I could maintain steering. I've heard of people running less over "soft" bottom and not sure of the distance. 

This is based on: a 2005 Custom Classic 
Mercury 25 HP 2 stroke tiller steer 
Tom C Electric Jack Plate 
Power Tech 4 Blade 10-3/8 x 13 with added heavy cup 
Modified Bob's Stabilizer (Cavitation) Plate 

Measure the foot of your motor and the release point for the water on the hull and I think you will agree that trying to maintain a run in 6" of H20 in a Classic may not be possible. A Mercury 25 2 stroke is 6" from the center of the bullet to the bottom of the skeg which means my prop would have to run half out of the water.  I don't care how high you think you can jack, the skeg hits first and if it doesn't then you will definately have to address the water pickup issue (Mercury 25 hp is 10" to the bottom of the skeg). I've spent a lot of time and effort and IMHO trying to run in less than 8 to 10" is a diminishing return. 

I also want to add that no grass beds were harmed with my testing. My goal was to find out how much water was required to run "over grass" (or rock  ).  

just my .0000000000000000000002 sense 

CR
_________________
So many fish, so little time.
------------------------------------------------
Unless you want to develop low water pickups for small motors and set the motor further back and/or develop "pocket drive" IMHO you will not be able to sustain cooling for extended runs.  If you are not willing to take the chance of losing a powerhead, TEST WITH A WATER PRESSURE GUAGE.

The only downside to a SS prop is if you hit something you are more likely to damage your lower.  With todays hubs it's not as bad as it used to be since they are much more forgiving.  IMHO the performance advatage to a well made SS prop exceeds my concern for lower unit damage and I'm willing to take that risk.  

again, just my .00000000000000000000002 sence.

CR


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## tojo (Dec 12, 2006)

Ron,

I should have been more specific. I have long since settled the debate over running depth in my mind. My interest in an SS prop is strictly a matter of increasing speed. In your testing was there any significant speed increase with a properly tweeked prop. 

Second, (as some can testify to) my aluminum prop is pretty chewed up (negatively impacting performance) The solid contruction of an SS prop would eliminate the decrease in performance over time, but will it do so at the risk of my lower unit?

Disclaimer: Im not running around chewing up grass beds. I fish areas with shelly bottoms and have taken a "damn the torpedoes full speed ahead" attitude. It is what it is for me.

What do you estimate the speed gain is on a properly tweeked SS prop?


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2007)

My new yami with 25hp with me alone on a gheenoe classic tops me out 32.8 mph on gps. I'm running stock prop without a jackplate, so it's good start for me. So I will estimate my speed with new jackplate and new powertek stainless steel prop 10" diameter with 13" pitch 3 blades stainless steel prop will be around 35 to 37 mph, that is my best guess. Right now I'm running 9 7/8" diameter and 11 1/4" pitch stock prop, so after all the mods coming in and I will know that I will gain speed from 32.8 to average 36.5 mph.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2007)

> Ron,
> 
> What do you estimate the speed gain is on a properly tweeked SS prop?


As opposed to the correct factory aluminum prop - IMHO about 2 to 3 mph.  IMHO it's not worth it.  I will normally go to a 4 blade SS so we can cup the snot out of it but I'll give up 3-4 mph to run "skinny" vs speed any day of the week.  

Another factor not mentioned yet would be the "hole shot".   FYI, it comes with run'n skinny. 

just my .00000000000000002 sense

CR


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## tojo (Dec 12, 2006)

> > Ron,
> >
> > What do you estimate the speed gain is on a properly tweeked SS prop?
> 
> ...


That is what i was getting at. Truth is I would pay the extra money (and prolly will) to pick up 2mph. If the risk to the engine is minimal with my style of running. Im not a regular goonigan so skinniness is not as important to me. I run till I bump then pole or walk the rest of the way. 

Thanks for chiming in.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2007)

> > > Ron,
> > >
> > > What do you estimate the speed gain is on a properly tweeked SS prop?
> >
> ...


  Sounds to me like the $$ you will save will go a long way toward the dream rod/reel (or something else) you want.   I mean after all, your going to spend it, it's just a question of where? 

If you want speed, best bet would be a 3 blade and cup the tips if needed. I have a BA 3 blade that gave me about 4 mph over a stock 4 blade. I just didn't hold water when I tried to jack all the way up but it easily ran in the 30's.


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## Hole-Hitter (Dec 11, 2006)

I have a 2006 yammi 25hp 2 stroke, but I am running it on a Gladesmen. I know (Cpt. Ron can vouch) I have been through a few props trying to hit my correct rpms. Factory 3 blade I am running 5100 and should be 5800 to 6000 (trying to run close to max which is 6000) running 32 to 34mph. I have a powertek heavy cupped 10 pitch 4 blade that would only hit 4800 w/ load and 5100 solo. My previous 13 pitch was even lower. I just got my prop back from Central Florida Props. My 10 pitch was changed to an 8.25 pitch to hit my projected RPMS and cupped a little more (recommended mods by the prop guru at CFP). I am running the boat either Sunday or Monday and will post my numbers. I guess what I am getting at is every boat is different and you are just going to have to experiment w/ your boat to get the RPMs where they need to be. One thing is for sure, you dont want to run your engine at too low of an RPM range for fear of damaging the motor. If someone has your same boat and is hitting target RPMs w/ the 13 pitch then start there as a baseline. Just my .02


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## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

> > > > . AC has run his boats very shallow but I believe has blown three motors in the process.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ron,
> ...


No it increased, I gained 2mph


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## Ron_W. (Dec 14, 2006)

What CaptRon said.

I have been told by a motor mechanic that a stainless prop can up the chances of lower unit damage but have never heard a confirmed report of it happening. I would go stainless around the oysters, you will still need to have your prop tuned up every couple years of use or abuse to keep up the speed gain. It will long out last any aluminium and will almost certianly improve preformance. Even a couple miles an hour will improve your shallow running by allowing the hull to plane higher. I switched to stainless on a couple of motors and was very impressed with the improvements. 

Ac blew a 25 Yamaha and the 40 Tohatsu from what I understand was overheating and had some trouble with another motor. This was all second hand and I did not witness these incidents. Only AC knows the details. If you push your gear to or past it's limits you have to except the fact that things will break and you have to be ready to deal with it.$$


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Ok couple of simple questions... what is the honest draft (figure two persons aboard, gear, fuel etc.) Resting draft and running draft. I'm looking for typical numbers not extreme numbers. 

Regarding running draft I would think a tunnel hull would be the best bet for long distance shallow running, is there a tunnel hull neo or such? My 17T will out run the neo in the shallows but as soon as I stop you guys could still float I suspect.

Thanks
Jan


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## Ron_W. (Dec 14, 2006)

> Ok couple of simple questions... what is the honest draft (figure two persons aboard, gear, fuel etc.) Resting draft and running draft. I'm looking for typical numbers not extreme numbers.
> 
> Regarding running draft I would think a tunnel hull would be the best bet for long distance shallow running, is there a tunnel hull neo or such? My 17T will out run the neo in the shallows but as soon as I stop you guys could still float I suspect.
> 
> ...


OK, I'm running a Gheenoe Classic 15' 6" Center Console Home mod, did all the glass work my self over 1/2" plywood so I'm guessing my hulls 50 lbs heavier than the factory version. With a 25hp Merc, Bobs jackplate, 
2 batteries, a 12gal fuel tank with an average 50lbs of fuel, trolling motor and empty livewell. With two men and gear I float in 6" so draft is about 5 1/2 ", the trolling motor will move me in 6". Poleing draft is about 7 1/2" from the rear platform. Running draft with motor jacked 7" above the transom is about 8" based on running the boat until the motor makes contact then stopping to pole and finding barely enough water depth to pole freely. With only one person on board I decrease the draft a half inch or more in the level and running drafts. 

Yes there were at least two tunnel hull Noes built and they were reported to run reliably in 6" of water with a jack plate. As with your Pathfinder they did loose some draft due to the decreased displacement from the tunnel cut out.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks for the reply... If you didn't have a jack plate how much would that increase the draft numbers? 

Based on your numbers I can run about 2.5" shallower but pole .5" deeper... hum.... 

Again thanks for the reply.


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

ive never measured but mine will float where i cant even get most of the TM in the water. however it takes a good bit of water to run mine. I only have a man. jackplate. not sure if thresher or LR ever measured the draft since it was their boat first.


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## LoneRanger (Dec 11, 2006)

if you are on the front deck your boat will float in 3" so long as neither of the livewells have water in them.


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

> if you are on the front deck your boat will float in 3" so long as neither of the livewells have water in them.



Thanks 

I think im gonna get new scuppers for the livewell w/o the holes in them in an attempt to keep the hatches dry since i never use live bait


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## Ron_W. (Dec 14, 2006)

> Thanks for the reply... If you didn't have a jack plate how much would that increase the draft numbers?
> 
> Based on your numbers I can run about 2.5" shallower but pole .5" deeper... hum....
> 
> Again thanks for the reply.


With no jackplate (I set it up with 6" of set back) I expect I could pole in 6 to 6 1/2"

With no jack, 8" planeing draft plus 7" jack height = 15" so I would guess 14 to 15" would be minium running depth with the motor on the transom.


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