# Let's talk Compasses



## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

Put it in the front bulkhead. My gps has frozen or lost power a couple times. I think mine is a Ritchie. Has a light in it too.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Good idea. Is it hard to read from your driving position?


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## jfboothe (Dec 19, 2012)

Nothing in the world wrong with a compass (I have one on my boat) but for back up to your boat GPS have you tried some of the phone apps? I have the Navionics app on an Android phone and it works really good. Sometimes I use that rather than my Garmin and you don't have to be on an internet connection to use it.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jfboothe said:


> Nothing in the world wrong with a compass (I have one on my boat) but for back up to your boat GPS have you tried some of the phone apps? I have the Navionics app on an Android phone and it works really good. Sometimes I use that rather than my Garmin and you don't have to be on an internet connection to use it.


X2, however, there are places where you will not get good phone signal to use the GPS app on your phone, like the Everglades.

Back in the day, we never had GPS's and we use to run the Glades with knowledge, good memory, intuition and a damn good compass. I don't think a good boat should not have one (backup or not). It's nice to look down and get a quick bearing on where you are heading when your GPS screen is spinning all around in circles.


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

jmrodandgun said:


> Good idea. Is it hard to read from your driving position?


Not really. It's fairly big. It seemed like the most logical placement when had boat built.


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## jfboothe (Dec 19, 2012)

Backwater said:


> X2, however, there are places where you will not get good phone signal to use the GPS app on your phone, like the Everglades.


For most of these apps, you don't need any sort of phone or WiFi coverage. I have used mine way off shore and in other countries with no phone coverage. You download the maps ahead of time for the area you will be in before you go and I typically put my phone in airplane mode. You can download the entire state of Florida. The GPS part of the phone is completely independent from the data/Wifi part of the phone.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jfboothe said:


> For most of these apps, you don't need any sort of phone or WiFi coverage. I have used mine way off shore and in other countries with no phone coverage. You download the maps ahead of time for the area you will be in before you go and I typically put my phone in airplane mode. You can download the entire state of Florida. The GPS part of the phone is completely independent from the data/Wifi part of the phone.


Yea not wifi for sure! Ha! Not all phones and phone services are created equal. Some phones piggy back the GPS frequency on the cell phones signals from the towers. They will also intermittently bounce back and forth between GPS signal from the satellites (slow) and a soupped up version that your phone service provides (fast). Otherwise, true GPS signal packets are slow and can be effected by other variables. In such case, triangulation from both multiple satellites and multiple cell towers can be interfered with, therefore causing gaps and delays in signal and loss of signal all together. Though a good GPS on your boat can have good GPS signal (more reliable than what cell phone service provides), I have had unreliable signal, even on my Samsung Galaxy phone with Android and good service but was out of range from the towers. I've also had no GPS signal on a number of Islands in the Caribbean on my cell phone, including the lower Lessor Antilles. I have a friend that fishes lower LA salt marshes and he doesn't have reliable cell phone GPS signal there either. Normal boat battery powered GPS's have stronger receivers, which I believe gives it an edge in signal over handhelds or cell phone GPS. The down side is you can loose boat battery power all together.

Also think about total loss of power. I camp in the Glades for days and my phone usually dies after the 2nd day. You can lose boat battery power. A friend lost his main cranking battery (drained) yesterday. Connectors can corrode, cell phones can get wet..... Shall I go on? 

So I'm not saying that having a phone with an app like Navionics is not a good idea. In fact, it's a great thing to have on ya!  But nothing completely replaces a good compass!


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Why not back up your GPS with another portable GPS? To navigate with a compass, you'll need a chart, and you'll also need to know where you are to begin with. With a backup GPS, you'll have all you need, and an inexpensive GPS can be had for about the same as a decent marine compass (which most folks can't really use anyway).


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Check out academy. I got one there a few years ago for my old flatboat. They had a variety of sizes and mounting options for better prices than west marine. They were all pretty inexpensive.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Man that's a lot of info. I don't like to go to places I don't at lest have a chart to follow. A gps can only do so much so I use both. As far as my phone if it's not on wi-fi I don't get it
But I don't go exotic so I usually have a signal and can call 800tow


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

pt448 said:


> Check out academy. I got one there a few years ago for my old flatboat. They had a variety of sizes and mounting options for better prices than west marine. They were all pretty inexpensive.


I don't know about all that. Skimping on navigation equipment sounds like asking for trouble.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I have several compasses I really like the Davis Bering compass but have several others 

always carry two different kinds ...

I will try to post up some links ...


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I like both of these I have others that are way more exotic

I do work in places where NO electronics are allowed so I have to get around with 
maps and compass ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Davis-Hand-...226669?hash=item5d5cb3822d:g:gPUAAOSwnLdWqBNp

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAUTOS-6387...ash=item1c609316d9:g:AxwAAOSwXshWq6fX&vxp=mtr


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I REALLY Like these people !

Everything you need 

http://www.austinkayak.com/search/compass


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Personally, I think every boat should have a compass if even just to pay penance to Neptune.

Having charts isn't a bad idea either even if you don't keep them on the boat. A chart gives you the big picture in detail and a perspective for trip planning.

By the way, I bought a nice small dash-mount compass for my skiff from Lauderdale Speedometer for 38 bucks; not sure of the brand.

Here it is, it's a Ritchie;
http://www.amazon.com/Ritchie-Navigation-X-21BU-Mount-Compass/dp/B001AMLII0


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

X2 on the Ritchie!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

As an "old school" guy I won't rig a skiff without a compass - and my go to brand is always Ritchie.... A few hints for that compass - you want a solid fixed mount - and as large as your space will allow (so that you can actually use it for navigation....). It needs to be properly aligned with your hull's centerline (keel) and properly wired so that it's backlit and visible at night and in bad conditions (you won't encounter really bad weather conditions often - but when you do, and you're in a driving rain where your compass is the only thing you can see... -you get the idea....

Years and years ago - long before GPS we'd also make a point of having that compass carefully carded by a pro so that we knew what the deviation was. A really skilled operator could find wrecks by running time and distance on a specific compass course to set up on wrecks that were 15 or 20 miles away - and around 100 feet overall with nothing but a compass, a stopwatch, and a depthfinder....


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## jfboothe (Dec 19, 2012)

Backwater said:


> So I'm not saying that having a phone with an app like Navionics is not a good idea. In fact, it's a great thing to have on ya!  But nothing completely replaces a good compass!


Agreed!


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

For people who don't know the difference between a map and a chart, and who think you can just mount a compass on a boat and that it will accurately indicate a heading, a backup GPS is a better answer. Navigation by wet compass takes a little knowledge and some experience. Knowledge and experience that a lot of folks just don't have. 

BTW, your cell phone GPS will work out of a service area and a map will most likely be cached for your location. In any case, you'll have heading, speed and time information (so long as the battery lasts).

I've probably done more ocean navigation than most folks, and I'm a minimalist and sort of old school, but I see the reality of the situation, and the reality is that unless there's a nuclear war, the new-fangled GPS thingies are the way to go. (If there's a nuclear war, you don't necessarily want to find land too quickly anyway.)


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> For people who don't know the difference between a map and a chart, and who think you can just mount a compass on a boat and that it will accurately indicate a heading, a backup GPS is a better answer. Navigation by wet compass takes a little knowledge and some experience. Knowledge and experience that a lot of folks just don't have.
> 
> BTW, your cell phone GPS will work out of a service area and a map will most likely be cached for your location. In any case, you'll have heading, speed and time information (so long as the battery lasts).
> 
> I've probably done more ocean navigation than most folks, and I'm a minimalist and sort of old school, but I see the reality of the situation, and the reality is that unless there's a nuclear war, the new-fangled GPS thingies are the way to go. (If there's a nuclear war, you don't necessarily want to find land too quickly anyway.)



Then we'll be like Kevin Costner in WaterWorld!


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

I have one on each of my boats, wouldn't think of going anywhere that I did not know the shore without one. That said, I really do not look at it very often.


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## Halfhitch (Feb 5, 2008)

I have a handheld Garmin GPS and carry many fresh spare batteries, but I began boating and sailing before GPS was available to the public and wouldn’t think of going into complicated, unfamiliar or ‘big’ water particularly if there is a chance of fog, without a good chart and a compass. Many years ago, my wife and I had plans to be sailing liveaboards for several years, and I still have a Davis Master Sextant which, unfortunately, I never got a chance to use in that regard. Impractical today, but I still keep it for sentimental reasons.


Anyway, even with today’s technology I believe in redundant backups, and, in addition to a GPS, a compass and chart are good insurance. With basic familiarity they can get someone oriented at least in the right general direction, and actual location can likely be refined nearer to safety (thinking of the story of Flight 19 in 1945 – it was said “if they had just turned West…”).


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

If your GPS fails, which would you rather have, a wet compass or another working GPS? If you answered "wet compass", then why do you have a GPS in the first place? If you have the budget for both a wet compass and a backup GPS, get both, but if you're a little tight for boating gear, get a backup GPS. BTW, make sure your compass is properly swung and that you have a correction card and that you know the difference between deviation and variation and how to apply them.

To be clear: unless you know your position to begin with, navigating by compass is not much better than navigating by the sun. If you don't know your position and you're in fog, a good horn will be more helpful than a wet compass and a chart,


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## GG34 (May 2, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> For people who don't know the difference between a map and a chart, and who think you can just mount a compass on a boat and that it will accurately indicate a heading, a backup GPS is a better answer. Navigation by wet compass takes a little knowledge and some experience. Knowledge and experience that a lot of folks just don't have.
> 
> BTW, your cell phone GPS will work out of a service area and a map will most likely be cached for your location. In any case, you'll have heading, speed and time information (so long as the battery lasts).
> 
> I've probably done more ocean navigation than most folks, and I'm a minimalist and sort of old school, but I see the reality of the situation, and the reality is that unless there's a nuclear war, the new-fangled GPS thingies are the way to go. (If there's a nuclear war, you don't necessarily want to find land too quickly anyway.)


This reeks of a military pilot


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

GG34 said:


> This reeks of a military pilot


I used to teach a brief "how to use a gps for fishing seminar" through my local West Marine... The first thing I'd point out to my audience is that no matter what you paid for your gps (cheap unit or top of the line....) all of them have one thing in common - you'll never get a hint that there's a problem before one quits on you.... Yes, you can buy a back-up but having a compass and a chart might just save the day if your gps quits on you...

Yeah, I'm "old school"....


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

West marine has the garmin 78sc for $100 off right now total 249


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

If you feel the need to carry a compass aboard your skiff, a hand bearing compass will be the most useful. With it and a chart and a little knowledge, you can fix your position. It's also portable and less affected by adjacent electronics and masses of ferrous metal because it is not fixed to the console. It can also be used to steer a heading. Because it's portable you can easily carry it from boat to boat. Here's a good one:








NIce, and I used one for years, but today, I'd still spend my money on a backup GPS


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I also have a hand bearing compass on board to complement my fixed mount compass (the hand bearing one has additional capabilities that a fixed compass doesn't have -but that's another story...). I also do keep a second gps aboard (nothing like grinding day after day to show you a few things that you wished you didn't learn.....). The day your electronics fail you is probably going to be in bad weather - and when you're running,,, a hand bearing isn't very useful (particularly in the kind of limited visibility you can get when you're in whiteout conditions -another of those "ask me how I know" moments). I also have a pair of military goggles that have been the only way I could see either gps or compass when things get bad.... Not something any microskiff operator wants to think about - but if you spend enough time on the water it's certain to happen and those goggles allow us to be able to run in really, really bad weather when I have to....

The main reason I advocate having a compass aboard is for those who go off exploring with their gps/chartplotter up into areas that they couldn't get out of without that gps..... In many places that wouldn't be a problem - back in the Everglades it could have a very bad outcome...

For many years I wasn't very careful about being able to operate in bad conditions but when my son went into the Coast Guard he actually taught me a thing or two....


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## jfboothe (Dec 19, 2012)

lemaymiami said:


> I also have a hand bearing compass on board to complement my fixed mount compass (the hand bearing one has additional capabilities that a fixed compass doesn't have -but that's another story...). I also do keep a second gps aboard (nothing like grinding day after day to show you a few things that you wished you didn't learn.....). The day your electronics fail you is probably going to be in bad weather - and when you're running,,, a hand bearing isn't very useful (particularly in the kind of limited visibility you can get when you're in whiteout conditions -another of those "ask me how I know" moments). I also have a pair of military goggles that have been the only way I could see either gps or compass when things get bad.... Not something any microskiff operator wants to think about - but if you spend enough time on the water it's certain to happen and those goggles allow us to be able to run in really, really bad weather when I have to....
> 
> The main reason I advocate having a compass aboard is for those who go off exploring with their gps/chartplotter up into areas that they couldn't get out of without that gps..... In many places that wouldn't be a problem - back in the Everglades it could have a very bad outcome...
> 
> For many years I wasn't very careful about being able to operate in bad conditions but when my son went into the Coast Guard he actually taught me a thing or two....


I don't disagree with you at all, however I am just going to guess that 90% of the fisherman wouldn't actually know how to use a chart and a compass (TVMDC). If your electronics fail in bad weather, deep in the everglades, out of sight of land or any place else with no visual references, a compass and a chart is just not going to help most people. I suppose most could navigate in a general East, West, North or South direction, but they probably aren't going to be able take a compass and chart get back with zero visibility.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Backwater said:


> X2, however, there are places where you will not get good phone signal to use the GPS app on your phone, like the Everglades.
> 
> Back in the day, we never had GPS's and we use to run the Glades with knowledge, good memory, intuition and a damn good compass. I don't think a good boat should not have one (backup or not). It's nice to look down and get a quick bearing on where you are heading when your GPS screen is spinning all around in circles.


I ran from chokoloskee to flamingo on my iPad. No service. They have an internal GPS.

I have a 20$ backpacking compass in my o chit kit.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I could not agree more !

You can get back in the mangroves and be 100 feet from where you need to be ...BUT you have to "go back out and around" like 6 miles to actually get there and if it is getting dark and you are low on fuel and a storm is coming it gets real "INTERESTING" !!!

"The main reason I advocate having a compass aboard is for those who go off exploring with their gps/chartplotter up into areas that they couldn't get out of without that gps..... In many places that wouldn't be a problem - _*back in the Everglades it could have a very bad outcome..."*_


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

I agree I have gotten in some places that are easy to get out of with a compass. But if I couldn't see the shore or any landmarks I would have been out of luck.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

CurtisWright said:


> They have an internal GPS.




Huh????


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Huh????


The internal GPS ..."It's inside the computer!"


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Whiskey Angler said:


> The internal GPS ..."It's inside the computer!"


Oh my bad, I thought he said "they have an "internet" GPS."

So yes I know that have an internal gps, but some phones and services piggy back the gps signal on cell tower signal, orherwise it can be extremely slow if not no signal at all.

Curtis, Ive run that run more times and and for more years than you can imagine and over the years I can tell you Ive lost gps signal on many occasions and on many different phones with gps and other gps devices, including last April up the Harney heading towards Tarpon Bay on a Lowance. It happens!


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Vertigo has some valid points. I like having a compass but you should probably have some practice in actually using one before you rely on it. Stuff like intersection, resection, GM angles, etc. probably aren't something you want to learn on the fly when you're in need.


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