# Lithium Batteries



## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

Officially biting the bullet.... I searched through all of the threads on Lithium batteries and couldn't find the recommendations I am looking for so. So I apologize in advance if this is a beaten topic...

17Foot Maverick (F70 Yami) and 12Volt Min Kota

Lithium Pros vs. Dakota Lithium vs other manufacturers? 
Seems like the Dakota batteries are cheaper and they come with a charger... However I know lithium pros has a good name for themselves. I also hear that you can run a regular battery charger on these lithium batteries now?? Warranty seems to be the same...

I am going to go with a 100AH 12volt battery for the trolling motor. [31LBS total] 

Not sure what battery I should run for the cracking battery. I would assume that a 50AH battery would be more than sufficient?

Any suggestions or recommendations from those who have made the switch already? 

Thanks


----------



## Tautog166 (Jul 7, 2018)

Make sure your big motor will work with a lifepo4 battery. Charging through the alternator may be an issue.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

I have a regular odyssey for starting battery and lithium pros 24v for TM. I didnt see a benefit in spending the coin for a lithium starting battery since I already had the AGM. LP just uses a different charging circuit if you do it the way I did. Charges the starting battery normally and switches to lithium once its full.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Also, I would think a 12v TM on your skiff is too small. My skiff is way lighter than yours and I have a 24v.


----------



## ianwilson (Apr 16, 2019)

just put a 24v terrova on my hpxv 17. 
24v 50ah lithium battery from ionic. paid $832 or something 5 year warranty. 
Used first time yesterday went out with a 42% charged battery trolled for 3 hours and came back with 34%. 
I am more than happy with performance and weight.


----------



## ianwilson (Apr 16, 2019)

ianwilson said:


> just put a 24v terrova on my hpxv 17.
> 24v 50ah lithium battery from ionic. paid $832 or something 5 year warranty.
> Used first time yesterday went out with a 42% charged battery trolled for 3 hours and came back with 34%.
> I am more than happy with performance and weight.


oh yeah, it also pushed the skiff at 6mph throwing a wake at full blast.


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

I've been running the 12volt Minn Kota on my boat for 2 years. It pushes the boat no problem. I am just getting frustrated with the Odyssey battery running it (PC 1200) only lasting about 5 hours. Figured if i went lithium I could almost triple the run time and reduce the weight.


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

K3anderson said:


> I have a regular odyssey for starting battery and lithium pros 24v for TM. I didnt see a benefit in spending the coin for a lithium starting battery since I already had the AGM. LP just uses a different charging circuit if you do it the way I did. Charges the starting battery normally and switches to lithium once its full.


Can you explain the charging circuit? If I stick with my odyssey battery for starting and switch to the lithium for the trolly.... My on board is a 2 bank charger. Can I hook one bank up to the lithium and one up to the Odyssey? Or with that damage the batteries or the charger? Thanks for the responses!


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Can you explain the charging circuit? If I stick with my odyssey battery for starting and switch to the lithium for the trolly.... My on board is a 2 bank charger. Can I hook one bank up to the lithium and one up to the Odyssey? Or with that damage the batteries or the charger? Thanks for the responses!


I don't have an onboard charger you plug in. It's a charger off of the alternator. There are two different versions. One that is all lithium and one (that I have) that charges the cranking (lead or AGM) normally and then converts the alternator juice over to what's required for the lithium. When underway the lithium is charging. Since the lithiums charge 5x faster, you could kill it, run for a few min to a new spot and then it has juice again.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

To answer your second ?, no, you cant use your regular charger for the lithium. At least I can't.


----------



## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

I run a stealth 1 AC/DC lithium charger with two banshee lithium’s. Got batt on sale 1100 for both. 12V troll with no issues though I am on the pole a lot and don’t use TM as much.


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

K3anderson said:


> I don't have an onboard charger you plug in. It's a charger off of the alternator. There are two different versions. One that is all lithium and one (that I have) that charges the cranking (lead or AGM) normally and then converts the alternator juice over to what's required for the lithium. When underway the lithium is charging. Since the lithiums charge 5x faster, you could kill it, run for a few min to a new spot and then it has juice again.


Interesting... Who is the manufacture of that charger? On Dakota's website it says you can use a regular charger - https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakota-lithium-12v-100ah-deep-cycle-marine-trolling-motor-battery/ Surprised there isn't a lot of information out there on how to best setup these new battery styles.


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

CKEAT said:


> I run a stealth 1 AC/DC lithium charger with two banshee lithium’s. Got batt on sale 1100 for both. 12V troll with no issues though I am on the pole a lot and don’t use TM as much.


Assuming you are using the 50AH battery for your cranking battery? What HP motor?


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Interesting... Who is the manufacture of that charger? On Dakota's website it says you can use a regular charger - https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakota-lithium-12v-100ah-deep-cycle-marine-trolling-motor-battery/ Surprised there isn't a lot of information out there on how to best setup these new battery styles.


I bought it from Lithium Pros along with the 24V battery.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Assuming you are using the 50AH battery for your cranking battery? What HP motor?


Same outboard you have


----------



## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

I have a 12v Optima Agm cranking and a 24v 50AH Relion Lithium all hooked up to PowerPole Charge. The 24v is the footprint of a group 31. Both batteries are in my console so empty front hatch.


----------



## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

A 12v motor may move your boat around fine at higher RPMs...but that means more noise and more battery drain...which equates to shorter battery life.

A 24v motor will move your boat better...at lower required RPMs...meaning less noise and extended battery life.

Just a few things to consider...


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

crboggs said:


> A 12v motor may move your boat around fine at higher RPMs...but that means more noise and more battery drain...which equates to shorter battery life.
> 
> A 24v motor will move your boat better...at lower required RPMs...meaning less noise and extended battery life.
> 
> Just a few things to consider...


Yes, I am aware. Just don't think I want to purchase another trolling motor ($1,600) on top of new batteries. hence why I am thinking of upping that battery strength to something with 100AH and a better life cycle.


----------



## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Assuming you are using the 50AH battery for your cranking battery? What HP motor?


I am, yes. They advertise replacement groups respectively. We will see how it goes long term. 

Ran it on 3 trips and the charger keeps the batteries at 14.4V and I haven’t even come close to draining trolling battery.


----------



## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

crboggs said:


> A 12v motor may move your boat around fine at higher RPMs...but that means more noise and more battery drain...which equates to shorter battery life.
> 
> A 24v motor will move your boat better...at lower required RPMs...meaning less noise and extended battery life.
> 
> Just a few things to consider...


I have stayed with 12V because I have found no need for 24V. I don’t use troller on flats. When on flats always on the pole.


----------



## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Same outboard you have


Yep, F70


----------



## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

CKEAT said:


> I don’t use troller on flats. When on flats always on the pole.


**ding ding ding**


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

Yes, I rarely ever use my tolling motor also. Never with fly fishing. Never off the beach tarpon fishing. However when I solo fish it is a must in my opinion.


----------



## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

You bet, I hear you. I do use mine as well and have used it for hours at a time and had no issues. My boat is side console and I try to keep it pretty light so Maybe that helps, not sure. 

I have a 22’ bay boat that I use for beach / rig and troll all day long on 24V. It is waaaaay heavier than the skiff. I personally don’t see the need. To each their own.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

kylet said:


> I have a 12v Optima Agm cranking and a 24v 50AH Relion Lithium all hooked up to PowerPole Charge. The 24v is the footprint of a group 31. Both batteries are in my console so empty front hatch.


I’m thinking of going with a similar setup on my next build. Just started looking into the power pole option, and had a few questions/observations.


Is that only controlled through the app or NMEA? Just worry that it’s reliant on an app or something
I don’t really want nor like the TM or anything “borrowing” juice from the cranking battery. I like to run where I’m going, flip a battery switch, and be on JUST the deep cycle trolling motor battery. Taking juice from the cranking scares me if something goes wrong with this technology.
Also, in my current setup, 12v Deep Cycle / 12 v cranking (both optima blue tops) on sandbar days I can flip to the DC TM battery and play stuff off the speakers. Would you have that option anymore with the Powerpole 24v setup, or would you would you be stuck playing off the 12v cranking since that’s what the speakers are?

Any issues/gripes/recommendations for the Powerpole charger now that you’ve had it for a while?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## Fairweather (Aug 17, 2020)

Amped Outdoors is another option: Marine/Solar Lithium Batteries


----------



## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> I’m thinking of going with a similar setup on my next build. Just started looking into the power pole option, and had a few questions/observations.
> 
> 
> Is that only controlled through the app or NMEA? Just worry that it’s reliant on an app or something
> ...


1. the initial setup needs to be done through app. Once it has been done (it’s easy) you don’t really have to touch it. I check my app to see where my batteries are occasionally. The emergency jump start would be through app or nmea.
2.You can set your charge preferences on what get priority. That would be something that could be explained by power pole, but I don’t think it borrows from either battery but rather only charges while alternator is running. The only borrow is the jump start which takes from TM batteries to Cranking and that’s a manual process.
3. Your switch doesn’t really come into play with the pp charge. That possibility is based on whether your audio can operate on 12v and 24v which almost certainly a no go. You could however do that if you went with 2 12V lithium batteries and ran the switch to the bottom battery in the 24V series.

Cons of the Charge: I don’t really need the features of the charge but rather it’s pretty much a must for a solo 24V lithium charging. (See Cons of 24v Battery below for the cons)
Pros of the charge: battery life should be improved since batteries never get drained (after running to ramp after fishing, both batteries are 100%) and are charged to their specific charging profile. Although the cost was high up front, it should balance if not come out better over time. (We shall she.) It’s nice to see the exact charge of your batteries at a glance.
Cons of Single 24v Battery: not versatile. Requires special charger. Not useful as a backup battery in a battery switch system. Not useful for non TM 12v accessories.
Pros of Single 24v Battery: I can fit it and 12v Main battery in console - no batteries or electrical in front hatch near fuel tank. Lighter. Cheaper.

If I were redoing the system today, I would move the batteries and charger to the front hatch. If you are careful and take the necessary precautions then you can easily be safe from sparks/possible fire. I personally would go up to a 36V battery and TM. I don’t use a TM but around 10 times a year, but when I need it, I need it to be strong, fast and it needs to last, if that makes sense. You are still less weight than a 24v Group 34 AGM system. As far as the location of the batteries, I originally was excited to open up the front hatch for storage. It’s the largest hatch/storage on he boat and batteries on that tray can make getting stuff in and out a pain in the ass. Well after fishing people up therefor about a year now, it’s a bigger pain in the ass to have to get into that box so often around someone fishing. I’d rather just have emergency supplies in there and just never open that hatch. Stuff that needs to be accessed throughout the day can stay back in the back with me where the person fishing isn’t in the way.

having said that, it’s safe to say I’d probably go with 2 12v lithiums for the 24v system over the 1 24 if I was staying with the 24v TM. Put them in front hatch Along with cranking batteries. No PP charge or battery switch - easy jump right there if needed. I’d go back to charging/maintaining batteries when at home like I used to do by adding a quick connect plug to battery and 3 bank charger leads and manually hooking up when home. No onboard charging.

sorry, I know that’s a bit much, but that’s my unfiltered, unbiased opinion of what works best for me - hope it helps.


----------



## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

I’m actually waiting for the Power Pole Trolling Motor to come out. If it’s 36V and Saltwater ready (and hopefully a less than 60” shaft), then I probably will be getting the 36V50AH battery and moving the charge and Cranking battery to front hatch. Will put tools and other emergency gear up there and have an open console/back hatches open for my paydays and Miller lites.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

kylet said:


> 1. the initial setup needs to be done through app. Once it has been done (it’s easy) you don’t really have to touch it. I check my app to see where my batteries are occasionally. The emergency jump start would be through app or nmea.
> 2.You can set your charge preferences on what get priority. That would be something that could be explained by power pole, but I don’t think it borrows from either battery but rather only charges while alternator is running. The only borrow is the jump start which takes from TM batteries to Cranking and that’s a manual process.
> 3. Your switch doesn’t really come into play with the pp charge. That possibility is based on whether your audio can operate on 12v and 24v which almost certainly a no go. You could however do that if you went with 2 12V lithium batteries and ran the switch to the bottom battery in the 24V series.
> 
> ...


Some really outstanding info here, so thanks for sharing. here’s a few questions and comments in follow up.

- Console space would be nice, but have heard having batteries closer to center of gravity is better than having them stuffed in bow (even if it balances out, say, a heavier engine). I’m debating what’s worse: a slight squat perhaps, or weight distribution further from the CG...

- Anyone using a LiFePO4 (think I did that right) cranking (or dual use) battery specifically for cranking/house. Have also heard there’s issues with that. Perhaps not enough cold cranking amps?

- The more I research the Powerpole Charge the more I think it makes sense. I spoke to a Powerpole rep, he said that even though your “cranking” battery is going to get a workout, you don’t really need a deep cycle. HOWEVER, I actually read the PP Charge User manual, and it did specifically say to use a deep cycle as your “cranking“ battery. May depend on how much you are comfortable draining the “crank” battery, which sounds like can be user defined. 

- Looking at ReLion, Dakota and Lithium Pros. Relion sells deep cycle and dual use batts. Dakota just sells deep cycle, theirs seem a bit cheaper (and also offer a 10% mil discount which is nice). Lithium pros has a cranking/dual use battery that’s basically twice as much as Relion’s...not sure why....

- I really like my battery switch, and think I’d have trouble parting with it. When I’m on the water using the trolly, I switch it to #2, where I run a big Optima 12v DC. gives me the confidence to run that thing down and I know I can always switch back to #1 for a start. Sounds like with the PP charge you can really integrate with a batt switch. I’m sure a smarter electrician / rigger might know, but I’m sure there’s probably a smart way to rig a switch to two 12v DC batteries where One side of the switch has them linked in parallel and then flip the switch and they’re in series. Wondering if that would be any benefit, perhaps for a backup crank batt or something. 

- Also a big believer in keeping things simple...is the PP charge too complicated and too much tech for a simple poling skiff? I really haven’t had an issue backing the boat in the garage and charging both batteries. Although right now running one ext cord into console receptacle and another to the bow hatch where my TM batt is. 

- is the extra $300-800 (more than Optima Blue top) now on a lithium worth the longevity? It looks like I’d also be saving about 25-30 lbs easy. (Thats a good amount of beer)

- I’m not seeing a huge benefit to rigging 2 x 12v batteries is series for a 24v TM. The single 24v 50Ah Dakota or ReLion seems like it would be plenty adequate, especially for a skiff that’s lighter than average.

just stuff I’m thinking about. I’ll quit my rambling now.


----------



## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Some really outstanding info here, so thanks for sharing. here’s a few questions and comments in follow up.
> 
> - Console space would be nice, but have heard having batteries closer to center of gravity is better than having them stuffed in bow (even if it balances out, say, a heavier engine). I’m debating what’s worse: a slight squat perhaps, or weight distribution further from the CG...
> 
> ...


I think the distribution of weight isn’t a one size fits all. It definitely makes sense as a starting point for the weight to be in the center. I have a big heavy skiff, so it is less affected byweight distribution. You may find that you get better performance with more weight forward. I do believe that fuel tanks are best-suited for for the center because it’s an ever changing weight. With batteries you can play around and find where you like them. On my boat I’m using a 4 blade stern lifting prop andbow still rides a little light when pushing for more rpm’s.More importantly with a fisherman in front and me on the back on
the pole, I’ll always bottom out at the stern. The weight forward would be beneficial for me. If you want your bow high on anchor the back may be a better location.

I really don’t think you are putting the workout on the cranking battery that you are thinking. The charge obviously draws its power from it, but I’ve never seen my cranking battery less than topped off since I’ve had the charge. I’d imagine you could drain it pretty easily if storing for a period of time without having AC plugged in.

you can have a switch and a charge - They work independently of each other. The issue with the switch is with a single 24V battery as the secondary. Most everything (besides led lights) are going to run off of a voltage range much below 24 ( the 24 at full charge is close to 28v I believe). That’s why two 12v in the serieswould be better than the single 24, because you can use the bottom battery in the series as battery 2. You’d just not be able to crank with it if it did not have enough peak amps, but you could definitely run your accessories.

I think in the long run you will probably either come out cheaper with lithium or at least break even - Especially if you’re replacing two optimas with a single 24.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

^^^^Some more really solid info.

here are the configurations I’m weighing right now, luckily I have some time to decide.

1) Crank: 12v ReLion RB50-HP, 50Ah dual purpose, 19lbs, $640
Deep cycle: ReLion 24v 50Ah, 29 lbs, $1142.
Mounting: In console w/ Powerpole Charge

Pros: same manufacturer, all LiFEPO4, crank batt has deep cycle properties which will work well with the Charge, everything on CG of the skiff, allows for full utilization of front hatch, very light weight

Cons: DC batt not really easily removable, can’t act as a true backup starting battery without the Charge system, eats up most console space, price


2) Crank: Optima Bluetop D34M (dual use); 12v 55Ah, 43.5 lbs, $290
Deep Cycle: Dakota Lithium DL24v 50Ah, 36lbs, $949
Mounting: Under console with Powerpole Charge

Pros: 2nd cheapest option of the three, everything consolidated on CG, deep cycle recommended by powerpole for ”cranking“ battery in charge system

Cons: A bit more weight, maybe less longevity with the AGM than LiFEPO4, a bit more weight

3) Crank: Optima Bluetop 34M, 800 CCA, 38lbs, $270
Deep Cycle: 2x 12v Dakota Lithium DL12v, 54 Ah, 36lbs for 2, $949
Mounting: Crank in console, Deep cycles in Fwd Hatch, NO PP Charge, battery switch in console (1, 2, both), would also think I’d need a second battery switch which could isolate the forward deep cycle batteries to use either as an emergency crank, or put them in series for TM applications

Pros: A bit more room in console, doesn’t require the $1300 PP charge, cheap option, closer to the system I’m used to where I have a single batt switch that rotates between AGM start, 12v AGM DC, or both...ALSO could remove the Fwd batteries, but then you lose the backup...

Cons: Dakota says their batteries aren‘t good for cranking (not sure they’d even work in emergency), kinda complicated rigging with the two switches (can’t think of a way to do it with just one switch), weight now FWD and away from CG, heaviest option of the three

obviously could also mix and match with the three options above depending how light/how much I want to spend, and how complicated I want to get with the rigging.

also seems like there should be some more cranking battery options from the LiFEPO4 side here soon... or so they say...

Anyway, just wanted to post so people could see some options out there and kinda get a peak at my thought process. If anyone has any better ideas or sees anything that’s a big no-go I’d certainly appreciate the feedback.


----------



## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I'm running the 24v ReLion up front and a 12v optima in the console. The optima is the small 1200PT for my 60hp. I'm not sure if they've worked out the kinks on the lithium starting batteries yet. I believe that Chittum was trying then but the electronics and outboard didn't like it that much a few years ago.

I do miss having the trolling motor as a back up. I needed it a few weeks ago after leaving the switch on at home. 

I didn't look too hard but surprised there is not a 24v to 12v step down jumper cables.


----------



## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> ^^^^Some more really solid info.
> 
> here are the configurations I’m weighing right now, luckily I have some time to decide.
> 
> ...


Are you saying the people Powerpole charging system will let you jump from the 24v to 12?


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Jason M said:


> Are you saying the people Powerpole charging system will let you jump from the 24v to 12?


yep. The way the PowerPole Charge works is it basically combines or prioritizes all battery energy for most optimal use. Don’t really need a battery switch anymore.

here’s an example: say you stop at your fishing spot And drop the trolling motor down to start hunting. Believe it or not, the PP charge is actually going to start using the juice from the ”cranking” battery first, down to a predetermined level which is user defined in the setup/config process. Then it’ll click over to the deep cycle TM batteries and use that. It will keep running down that 24v lithium you got up front until it hits the “reserve” level in there. Then it actually goes back to your cranking batt and will deplete that. You’ll get a warning at some point that eventually says “emergency start required” when your cranking batt gets too low. Then, you can execute and “emergency start” by the prompt on the SIMRAD or the iPhone APP: this will take the reserve juice from the 24v lithium up front and bring it all to the starting batt for one last start. Then, once the engine is running, the alternator will charge both batteries through the CHARGE system (here you can prioritize cranking, TM or mix for the recharge off alternator priority). Get home, Charge has a male end you can connect to extension cord for recharge of entire system. Will cut over to battery maintainer at appropriate time. (Of note, in the initial configuration of your specific charge system, you tell the software what kind of batteries you’re running, amperage, voltage, etc; this optimizes that specific system). This technology seems pretty cool, and also seems like PP figured out the kinks and patched those up prior to initial release. 

Reading the above example, you can see why PP recommends a deep cycle/dual use batt for the “cranking“ batt (at least in the user manual). The rep I spoke to said it didn’t matter. 

some people may it like the reliance on this new tech. I‘m still a little skeptical, but the more I read, the more legit it all seems. DISCLAIMER: I’ve only researched this and read the CHARGE user manual, I have not actually run the system.


----------



## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

FYI, I just got an email from them. It looks like Relion has a sale this weekend.






LiFePO4 Batteries | RELiON


LiFePO4 Batteries




relionbattery.com


----------



## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Some more info...
I would probably run a RB100HP if using for cranking. It’s more comparable to the D34M in peak output/cranking amps, and for most 90’s/115’s the D34M is barely meeting minimum recommendations.
Secondly, and it’s good to know that if you lose a cell in the main battery, even with the charge, you aren’t getting that boat cranked. The charge will jump a dead battery, however it won’t help a bad battery.
I have a lot of friends running lithium cranking and have been for awhile on much larger engines. I think ideally though you’d like to get to a point where the lithium’s are deep cycle yet can still put out 750+ peak amps to make the switch. JMO
Another cool thing to keep in mind with lithium to help with fitting in console is you can secure the batteries in any orientation (bottom sides, front/back). If you don’t have a lot going on as far as other accessories in the console, you can mount two group 31’s vertically and still have close to half your console floor open.


----------



## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

I've got a 90 SHO and think the PC1100 at 29 lbs might be my next cranking battery, as its seems to be just big enough and the lightest that falls within the manufacture's specs. Plus I keep a NOCO boost onboard.

The lithium cranking just don't seem to be a big enough value add yet...still expensive and weigh 30 lbs. The EarthX ETX1600, $900, at 8.9lbs with 760 CCA is getting close, but only has 32 ah


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

K3anderson said:


> I bought it from Lithium Pros along with the 24V battery.


Why are the Lithium Pros batteries so much more expensive than ReLion or Dakota? Any ideas? Worth the extra $$?


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

kylet said:


> Some more info...
> I would probably run a RB100HP if using for cranking. It’s more comparable to the D34M in peak output/cranking amps, and for most 90’s/115’s the D34M is barely meeting minimum recommendations.
> Secondly, and it’s good to know that if you lose a cell in the main battery, even with the charge, you aren’t getting that boat cranked. The charge will jump a dead battery, however it won’t help a bad battery.
> I have a lot of friends running lithium cranking and have been for awhile on much larger engines. I think ideally though you’d like to get to a point where the lithium’s are deep cycle yet can still put out 750+ peak amps to make the switch. JMO
> Another cool thing to keep in mind with lithium to help with fitting in console is you can secure the batteries in any orientation (bottom sides, front/back). If you don’t have a lot going on as far as other accessories in the console, you can mount two group 31’s vertically and still have close to half your console floor open.


Anyone else browsing in this thread have experience using a LiFePO battery for the cranking battery? If so, which make/model? Need something that will crank an F70 reliably.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Anyone else browsing in this thread have experience using a LiFePO battery for the cranking battery? If so, which make/model? Need something that will crank an F70 reliably.


My current customer has an F70 and tried using a ReLion lithium and it caused nothing but trouble. The voltage output is higher with lithiums and some outboard’s systems can’t handle it. My 2 stroke Yamaha 70 has no issue but also has no computer.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

I’ve heard similar instances of this. Sounds like it’s an engine specific issue and not a battery issue? Perhaps that’s why the bass boyz are able to run the lithium cranking batteries on the bigger 250 Vmax...wish they could solve this somehow. Or is this why the Lithium Pros batts are so expensive — anyone have experience using these for a crank batt on a skiff sized engine?


----------



## Newman (Jan 22, 2018)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Why are the Lithium Pros batteries so much more expensive than ReLion or Dakota? Any ideas? Worth the extra $$?


I’ve been wondering the same thing.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> I’ve heard similar instances of this. Sounds like it’s an engine specific issue and not a battery issue? Perhaps that’s why the bass boyz are able to run the lithium cranking batteries on the bigger 250 Vmax...wish they could solve this somehow. Or is this why the Lithium Pros batts are so expensive — anyone have experience using these for a crank batt on a skiff sized engine?


I just post that I have a lithium cranking battery on my skiff.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

So doing some research in the bass forums, googling (duckduckgo), etc, it seems that the only issues I've seen where the F70 shut down is when running the ReLion battery as a crank batt. @Smackdaddy had a post in another similar thread basically alluding to the same thing: Lithium Pros hadn't shown that issue yet. Perhaps that's why they're more...


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I just post that I have a lithium cranking battery on my skiff.


Some seriously good info, thanks for sharing, Smack! As far as your question, I was specifically asking about Lithium Pros batteries, not ReLion. I have yet to read of issues with Lithium Pros batts for starting/cranking or shutting down.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Some seriously good info, thanks for sharing, Smack! As far as your question, I was specifically asking about Lithium Pros batteries, not ReLion. I have yet to read of issues with Lithium Pros batts for starting/cranking or shutting down.


I don’t have ReLion either, the customer who’s boat is here at my house had one for a cranking battery and now it’s a trolling motor battery and he uses a wet cell Interstate to crank and run GPS. 
I have dual Autocraft LFP-8 lithiums linked with copper flat bar to make an eight pound battery that cranks my 70TLRZ perfectly and the alternator charges it quickly. 
I think Lithium Pros have integrated computers or something, my buddy is a dealer I can ask him.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I don’t have ReLion either, the customer who’s boat is here at my house had one for a cranking battery and now it’s a trolling motor battery and he uses a wet cell Interstate to crank and run GPS.
> I have dual Autocraft LFP-8 lithiums linked with copper flat bar to make an eight pound battery that cranks my 70TLRZ perfectly and the alternator charges it quickly.
> I think Lithium Pros have integrated computers or something, my buddy is a dealer I can ask him.


Yeah that would be awesome, thanks! I'd love to dig deeper into what's causing the issues. If we could figure out a solution (or what to avoid lithium wise) for microskiff guys, that would be huge. The bass forums had some good info, but not enough to determine the culprit for sure. I may try to give Lithium Pros a call on Monday to see if they have any gouge. I think the alternative would be to just run an Optima Blue top, you'd add some weight for sure...and if using with a PP Charge, not sure what the long term effects of cycling would do to that specific battery if it were't a true deep cycle AGM.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Yeah that would be awesome, thanks! I'd love to dig deeper into what's causing the issues. If we could figure out a solution (or what to avoid lithium wise) for microskiff guys, that would be huge. The bass forums had some good info, but not enough to determine the culprit for sure. I may try to give Lithium Pros a call on Monday to see if they have any gouge. I think the alternative would be to just run an Optima Blue top, you'd add some weight for sure...and if using with a PP Charge, not sure what the long term effects of cycling would do to that specific battery if it were't a true deep cycle AGM.


I had an Optima Blue Top D34M in my boat before this and one in my last boat. Great batteries before they changed factories.


----------



## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Yeah that would be awesome, thanks! I'd love to dig deeper into what's causing the issues. If we could figure out a solution (or what to avoid lithium wise) for microskiff guys, that would be huge. The bass forums had some good info, but not enough to determine the culprit for sure. I may try to give Lithium Pros a call on Monday to see if they have any gouge. I think the alternative would be to just run an Optima Blue top, you'd add some weight for sure...and if using with a PP Charge, not sure what the long term effects of cycling would do to that specific battery if it were't a true deep cycle AGM.


Danny at Stealth 1 charging systems will explain if you call him. Nice guy and I really like the charging systems.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Sorry to belabor this thread, but has anyone found a Lithium batt that cranks an F70 and doesn't have the shutdown issues that I've heard about?


----------



## captjsanchez (Sep 8, 2015)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Can you explain the charging circuit? If I stick with my odyssey battery for starting and switch to the lithium for the trolly.... My on board is a 2 bank charger. Can I hook one bank up to the lithium and one up to the Odyssey? Or with that damage the batteries or the charger? Thanks for the responses!


Noco pro version can charge lithium and I think each bank can be set for different batteries types


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Gents:

went with this setup. Haven’t gotten the skiff yet, I’ll be the guinea pig here soon.

Lithium Battery Power 24v 75a TM battery (27 lbs)

Lithium Battery Power 12v 45a Crank battery (15 lbs)

will report back soon. Boat gets delivered in a few weeks.

Cheers,


----------



## Scott (Aug 24, 2015)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Gents:
> 
> went with this setup. Haven’t gotten the skiff yet, I’ll be the guinea pig here soon.
> 
> ...


What battery is that 75 ah?


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Lithium Battery Power out of Clearwater. Made in USA


----------



## Scott (Aug 24, 2015)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Lithium Battery Power out of Clearwater. Made in USA


Thanks. I took a look at their website. I looks like their 24v battery is 50ah, the same as Dakota and Battle Born.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

They have a 24v 75amp too but you pay a premium for it…

plus they have a 10 yr warranty and are right up the road









24V 75Ah Lithium Battery


Lithium Battery Power 24V 75Ah Lithium Ion Battery is a high-performing deep cycle battery built on patented NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) chemistry. The 24V75Ah features a built in automatic battery management system (BMS) that keeps the battery running at peak performance while preventing...




www.lithiumbatterypower.com


----------



## T-bone123 (Oct 9, 2019)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Sorry to belabor this thread, but has anyone found a Lithium batt that cranks an F70 and doesn't have the shutdown issues that I've heard about?


Would like to know as well, looking to switch to lithium.


----------



## ebr (Sep 6, 2019)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Sorry to belabor this thread, but has anyone found a Lithium batt that cranks an F70 and doesn't have the shutdown issues that I've heard about?


The Ionic 100 and 125ah versions should not have this issue as their BMS is supposedly designed for this now. I just put a couple in my bay boat but haven't had a chance to really test them out yet.


----------



## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

Very interesting thread and lots of information to digest. Like the Ionics but they are on backorder.

I am still a little lost on the different batteries. I looked at the Dakota and found this one: 

https://dakotalithium.com/product/d...r-starter-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-1000cca/

As described, it seems suitable for the Yamaha F70 (on a 2018 maverick hpxs) and I like the weight a lot but at the same time equates it to a Group 24. The current lead acid on my boat is a group 27 so back to confused again  

Any insights?

Thanks

Eric


----------



## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

efi2712micro said:


> Very interesting thread and lots of information to digest. Like the Ionics but they are on backorder.
> 
> I am still a little lost on the different batteries. I looked at the Dakota and found this one:
> 
> ...


This is what I got from from Dakota when asked about suitability to my 2018 Yamaha F70LA. 

_"The DL+ 12v 60Ah is recommended for outboards with alternators that are 80A or less, and on outboards that no longer have the warranty. A lithium battery can void the warranty on an outboard." _

Be warned!


----------



## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

efi2712micro said:


> This is what I got from from Dakota when asked about suitability to my 2018 Yamaha F70LA.
> 
> _"The DL+ 12v 60Ah is recommended for outboards with alternators that are 80A or less, and on outboards that no longer have the warranty. A lithium battery can void the warranty on an outboard." _
> 
> Be warned!


Following up on that thread ....

Talked to Yamaha and they told me that the only way they would not honor the warranty on an issue if it was directly related to the LiPO4 battery. When asked about who makes the diagnostic, they said it was the certified Yamaha service center. Called these folks who are taking care of my boats and Yam certified and they told me they never had an issue related to lithium batteries that would create an issue with warranty. So I pulled the trigger on the Dakota. Will let you know how it goes.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

So far F70 not liking the 12v 45a Lithium Battery Power crank battery. 

cranks fine, motor will random shut down > 3000 RPM.

many pointers would be appreciated. Really want to make this battery work before I drop back and punt to a blue top.


----------



## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

Just got back last night from the first trip with the lithium battery as the crank and it happened. I have not checked at what RPM but it was much higher than 3000 when you would see a voltage surge on the Yamaha computer and the F70 would shut down. Had to swap the optima blue and the lithium to finish the trip. I need to better understand it as some folks have a lithium without any issues. I will go back to review that thread and share my findings. For now, the TM uses the lithium.


----------



## ebr (Sep 6, 2019)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> So far F70 not liking the 12v 45a Lithium Battery Power crank battery.
> 
> cranks fine, motor will random shut down > 3000 RPM.
> 
> many pointers would be appreciated. Really want to make this battery work before I drop back and punt to a blue top.





efi2712micro said:


> Just got back last night from the first trip with the lithium battery as the crank and it happened. I have not checked at what RPM but it was much higher than 3000 when you would see a voltage surge on the Yamaha computer and the F70 would shut down. Had to swap the optima blue and the lithium to finish the trip. I need to better understand it as some folks have a lithium without any issues. I will go back to review that thread and share my findings. For now, the TM uses the lithium.


It's all about which Lithium battery and how the BMS is configured. I have an Ionic as my cranking/house setup on my bay boat and they claim their BMS won't have this issue - and that has been the case with my larger boat and larger engine - no problems so far. However, these smaller engines don't have the same kind of electrical setup so I'm not positive if even my Ionic would work properly (never discussed it with them because I haven't tried to switch my skiff over).


----------



## Scott (Aug 24, 2015)

I don’t know why you would want a lithium for a starter battery. The great advantage of a LiFePo is their depth of discharge and the amount of discharge / recharge life cycle. Neither of which matters in a starting battery. I had a small Odyssey that worked great as a starting battery.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Scott said:


> I don’t know why you would want a lithium for a starter battery. The great advantage of a LiFePo is their depth of discharge and the amount of discharge / recharge life cycle. Neither of which matters in a starting battery. I had a small Odyssey that worked great as a starting battery.


Personally, I wanted one because it was going to save me about 20lbs of weight. That’s at least a few cases of beer and an extra inch of draft ;-)

The old scout sniper adage comes to mind as well… “ounces are pounds”


----------



## ebr (Sep 6, 2019)

Scott said:


> I don’t know why you would want a lithium for a starter battery. The great advantage of a LiFePo is their depth of discharge and the amount of discharge / recharge life cycle. Neither of which matters in a starting battery. I had a small Odyssey that worked great as a starting battery.


In my case, because it is also the "house" battery that powers all the electronics, etc. Now, this is on a bay boat with a lot of that other stuff. On a small skiff, I agree that it probably isn't necessary at all (other than weight savings).


----------



## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

Scott said:


> I don’t know why you would want a lithium for a starter battery. The great advantage of a LiFePo is their depth of discharge and the amount of discharge / recharge life cycle. Neither of which matters in a starting battery. I had a small Odyssey that worked great as a starting battery.


Purely weight savings ….


----------



## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

I'm using a ChargeX LiFePO4 100AH battery [link] for cranking my Suzuki DF90A, and have had no problems with the motor. I'm no expert on outboard computers but the specs on the Yamaha F70 show its ignition system is a "TCI Microcomputer", and the Suzuki DF90A specs show its ignition system is "Solid State Direct Ignition". Not sure what the difference is other than the description. However, I'm also running my Lowrance Elite Ti2 from that same battery and getting some hash/noise interference on the screen only when the motor is running - even at idle in neutral. Wondering if the LiFePO4 battery could be causing it?


----------



## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> I'm using a ChargeX LiFePO4 100AH battery [link] for cranking my Suzuki DF90A, and have had no problems with the motor. I'm no expert on outboard computers but the specs on the Yamaha F70 show its ignition system is a "TCI Microcomputer", and the Suzuki DF90A specs show its ignition system is "Solid State Direct Ignition". Not sure what the difference is other than the description. However, I'm also running my Lowrance Elite Ti2 from that same battery and getting some hash/noise interference on the screen only when the motor is running - even at idle in neutral. Wondering if the LiFePO4 battery could be causing it?


I had my Lowrance and all other wiring except cranking wired from a fuse block. I was getting a lot of interference on my Lowrance from the trolling motor. I swapped it over to the cranking battery, and all is well. No interference from the main motor. It's strange how motors and electronics interact.


----------

