# Lets talk about low water pick-ups



## Bowen3

Boat is 2013 HPX-T. Has Bobs jp, Yama F-70, Foreman hole shot prop. Motor
mounted as high as it can be. 30psi up to 3.5 inch on jb. Above 4 that goes to zip,
but still pea,s out tube. Have been chicken to try start above that or run above that.
Has good hole shot and runs shallow. I feel like I want to be able to use all the jb.
Question is what type pick up. Nose cone or transom mount. Forgot, also cougar 
Cav plate Thanks in advance.


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## Capnredfish

I know who will chime in. Just wait.


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## Bowen3

Capnredfish said:


> I know who will chime in. Just wait.


Me too, just waiting.


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## SeaDrifter

Tagged





Michael


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## Derek Radtke

We’re waiting...


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## Capnredfish

He must be working.


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## DuckNut

@Smackdaddy53 are you sleeping?


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## Guest

I am an advocate for bob’s nosecones, I also know @Smackdaddy53 has his own transom mount design that works very well and will be testing one myself at some point!


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## Smackdaddy53

DuckNut said:


> @Smackdaddy53 are you sleeping?


I was on a mini vacation with my lady and dropping some metal off at the machine shop...


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## Smackdaddy53

I’ll post mine tomorrow. Runs with the hull bumping bottom.


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## SeaDrifter

I look forward to seeing your setup. I've been looking for flared screens to run on the '89 Evinrude 15hp that will propel the FRS-14 build.




Michael


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## Smackdaddy53

Still waiting on machined units in aluminum and hopefully UHMW polyethylene. I’d appreciate it if no one tries to poach this design and sell it. Copy it if you want but don’t be a cheesedick and try to sell these. I don’t have time to fab any one offs right now and the guy I was working with has been bowed up fishing and buulding a boat. 
My prototype has been on my HPX Tunnel for over a year with zero issues and no changes. The lower unit is 20 years old so she’s about to get a prep and paint job. Enjoy!


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## RJTaylor

A brass high speed pick up on an bracket works well, if you don't have the machining and welding skills.


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## Bowen3

RJTaylor said:


> A brass high speed pick up on an bracket works well, if you don't have the machining and welding skills.





RJTaylor said:


> A brass high speed pick up on an bracket works well, if you don't have the machining and welding skills.





RJTaylor said:


> A brass high speed pick up on an bracket works well, if you don't have the machining and welding skills.





RJTaylor said:


> A brass high speed pick up on an bracket works well, if you don't have the machining and welding skills.


Will both the transom mount and nose cone allow me to run the jp full up and still
have good water pressure.


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## Capnredfish

Look awfully proud in that last video. Big ole grin. Proud of your lady or the way boat is running? Which is it? Lol.


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## Smackdaddy53

Capnredfish said:


> Look awfully proud in that last video. Big ole grin. Proud of your lady or the way boat is running? Which is it? Lol.


Both and we caught about 20 redfish with some studs mixed in...


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## Smackdaddy53

Bowen3 said:


> Will both the transom mount and nose cone allow me to run the jp full up and still
> have good water pressure.


If you do it right yes. To run as high as mine you’ll need the right prop and compression plate too.


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## Capnredfish

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Both and we caught about 20 redfish with some studs mixed in...


good answer


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## permitchaser

I run my Bobs JP up to 6 and the foot is still in the water and peeing. I don't have a water guage but it hasn't blown up yet. I can run 1.5' while its jacked up. I just use it to get off a flat and don't run it long


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## rvd

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you do it right yes. To run as high as mine you’ll need the right prop and compression plate too.


Mad skilz Smack!


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## Smackdaddy53

permitchaser said:


> I run my Bobs JP up to 6 and the foot is still in the water and peeing. I don't have a water guage but it hasn't blown up yet. I can run 1.5' while its jacked up. I just use it to get off a flat and don't run it long


6 on your boat is all the way down on these hulls. Totally different animal.


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## Capnredfish

I need to make one of your pickups Smack. I don’t need the compression plate. I currently have motor mounted on highest bolts for very shallow idle with plate all the way up. On plane, I can only run about 4 1/2 to 5 and maintain normal pressure. If I raise to 6 I loose pressure. Prop works well enough at 6.


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## permitchaser

Smackdaddy53 said:


> 6 on your boat is all the way down on these hulls. Totally different animal.


no 6 is all the way up on my Flats Jack


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## Smackdaddy53

permitchaser said:


> no 6 is all the way up on my Flats Jack


I know exactly what you are saying but that doesn’t mean your motor is the same height on 6 as a totally different hull like an HPX-T that has a tall raised transom. My prop is above the hull at 6 on my jackplate. Sitting still at 6 about half of my prop is out of the water trimmed flat.
I have the same hull, motor, prop and similar compression plate as the OP, that’s why I’m chiming in. He called me yesterday and we discussed his setup for about 30 minutes.


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## permitchaser

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I know exactly what you are saying but that doesn’t mean your motor is the same height on 6 as a totally different hull like an HPX-T that has a tall raised transom. My prop is above the hull at 6 on my jackplate. Sitting still at 6 about half of my prop is out of the water trimmed flat.
> I have the same hull, motor, prop and similar compression plate as the OP, that’s why I’m chiming in. He called me yesterday and we discussed his setup for about 30 minutes.


I haven't been on my boat all year so i could be wrong but my transom is like a Maverick Master Angler from "97. It's flat not raised


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## Smackdaddy53

permitchaser said:


> I haven't been on my boat all year so i could be wrong but my transom is like a Maverick Master Angler from "97. It's flat not raised


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## devrep




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## Smackdaddy53

devrep said:


> View attachment 110858


Nosecone holes are too high, mine will run higher. 
Bob’s has a nosecone with 5 holes on just the bottom of the cone, it’s the one I bought and never installed. It’s in the classifieds.


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## devrep

mine has the 5 holes on the bottom, just not visible in the pic. its called the combo nosecone.


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## Smackdaddy53

devrep said:


> mine has the 5 holes on the bottom, just not visible in the pic. its called the combo nosecone.


I’ve seen them. They have about 3-4 more variations I believe. 
Is that your ‘hatsu? I thought you had a Yamaha for some reason.


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## devrep

50 hatsu 2 stroke.


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## Tigweld




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## Tigweld

How I rolled


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## Tigweld

Notice the pealing bindi on the leading edge(pita)


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## Tigweld




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## BudT

Freaking incredible Smack, you sent me a video early on but this one tops it, cheers my brother!


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## BVBFly

Few photos of my setup. Pickup mounted right above the tunnel.


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## txredfly

Just added a jackplate extension to my 17.8 tunnel. Raised the motor 3 inches higher than the highest setting and having the same issue. Was thinking of Jack’s screens or the nose cone but Smack your pick up is impressive. Just have to figure out how to build one.


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## Smackdaddy53

txredfly said:


> View attachment 111266
> Just added a jackplate extension to my 17.8 tunnel. Raised the motor 3 inches higher than the highest setting and having the same issue. Was thinking of Jack’s screens or the nose cone but Smack your pick up is impressive. Just have to figure out how to build one.


F70? You should try Jack’s screens first, they may be all you need.


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## txredfly

Smackdaddy53 said:


> F70? You should try Jack’s screens first, they may be all you need.


F60 thank you will call him


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## Surffshr

txredfly said:


> View attachment 111266
> Just added a jackplate extension to my 17.8 tunnel. Raised the motor 3 inches higher than the highest setting and having the same issue. Was thinking of Jack’s screens or the nose cone but Smack your pick up is impressive. Just have to figure out how to build one.


this right here is likely in my future. Where you able to use the original poling platform?


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## txredfly

Surffshr said:


> this right here is likely in my future. Where you able to use the original poling platform?


No. I was having problems hitting even when I first raised the motor on the plate to the top holes. Waiting onthe welder right now for a whole new design. Going further forward and going to notch it like an old Mav I dont want to go higher I have bad legs.


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## Surffshr

I’m gonna bug you to check it out when you get it together. Gonna be tweaking my tunnel guide a bit over time and what you’re doing is exactly what I’ve imagined.


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## permitchaser

Smackdaddy53 said:


> 6 on your boat is all the way down on these hulls. Totally different animal.



Bob's Flats Jack


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## Smackdaddy53

permitchaser said:


> Bob's Flats Jack
> View attachment 111610


Yes I see that. I have a Bob’s and so does the OP. Same hull and motor too. 
Post a pic of your lower unit in relation ti the bottom of the hull fully jacked and trimmed flat.


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## permitchaser

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Yes I see that. I have a Bob’s and so does the OP. Same hull and motor too.
> Post a pic of your lower unit in relation ti the bottom of the hull fully jacked and trimmed flat.


Ok


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## Smackdaddy53

Mine on 6 trimmed level and looking straight down the bottom of the hull. I can run it this high all day just can’t turn really sharp because there is not enough skeg in the water. The sponsons angle up about 1/2” from the transom.


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## permitchaser

permitchaser said:


> Ok


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## jonterr

Ni


Smackdaddy53 said:


> Mine on 6 trimmed level and looking straight down the bottom of the hull. I can run it this high all day just can’t turn really sharp because there is not enough skeg in the water. The sponsons angle up about 1/2” from the transom.
> Nice


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## Surffshr

For those wondering, this is the shot needed. HB Guide, Bob’s at 3.5. IMO this should be Bob’s at “0” with 6” of JP above. Smack’s set up is another level with the low water pickup and his ability to run with the motor that high.


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## Capnredfish

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Mine on 6 trimmed level and looking straight down the bottom of the hull. I can run it this high all day just can’t turn really sharp because there is not enough skeg in the water. The sponsons angle up about 1/2” from the transom.
> Smack. Tip if you haven’t tried it yet. If it would even work on your boat. My last boat was a tunnel and turning sharp at speed was also an issue. I learned to back off throttle 1/2 way or so. Turn wheel and get back on the gas just as boat starts to turn. It would turn sharp. I couldn’t get the boat to lean with forward movement. But the quick throttle change before turn worked wonders.
> 
> View attachment 111620


Must have typed in wrong spot. Expand to read.


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## Smackdaddy53

Surffshr said:


> View attachment 111624
> 
> For those wondering, this is the shot needed. HB Guide, Bob’s at 3.5. IMO this should be Bob’s at “0” with 6” of JP above. Smack’s set up is another level with the low water pickup and his ability to run with the motor that high.


This is not clowning your boats BUT Hell’s Bay doesn’t know how to mount an outboard on a tunnel hull. I have raised jackplates and motors on brand new Hell’s Bays and you would be shocked to realize they mount the motor on their non tunnel and tunnel models at the exact same height. Why add a tunnel to a hull if you’re going to sell it set up the same as a non tunnel and fabricate the poling platform so low that when the motor is raised to the correct height the cowling hits the platform? It’s comical.


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## Smackdaddy53

Capnredfish said:


> Must have typed in wrong spot. Expand to read.


It does work, kind of like running an outboard jet at low speed, you have to bump the throttle to get the thrust to turn. The problem with doing this when running in 3-4” of water is as soon as you let off the hull hits bottom and you have to really romp it to get water back to the prop. It’s like holding a glass of water upside down with an index card stuck on the bottom, if you break the seal you lose the water in the glass. I run foot deep creeks jacked up and work the throttle to make tight turns but when you get in 3-4” of water you get hull lift that makes it handle way differently. The reason airboats don’t run well in deeper water is because the hull sits lower in the water and they’ll swamp out. The shallower the water your hull is running the higher and flatter your hull will run. If you run directly across sand bars and guts you will feel the stern raise up as you go over each sand bar and drop in between in the guts. It’s something a lot of people don’t know about and the key to running truly skinny without tearing up the flats or your skiff.


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## Capnredfish

That hull lift is a unique sensation. As you get real shallow you feel the boat rise. I notice it hard bottom often.


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## Surffshr

I’ve not seen a non-TX tunnel skiff set up correctly from any manufacturer. I’ve seen more than one TX built tunnel set up incorrectly as well. Few folks actually pay attention or consider doing something that isn’t “factory”.


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## Smackdaddy53

Surffshr said:


> I’ve not seen a non-TX tunnel skiff set up correctly from any manufacturer. I’ve seen more than one TX built tunnel set up incorrectly as well. Few folks actually pay attention or consider doing something that isn’t “factory”.


I think that trapezoid tunnel works very well, much better than the newest HB Pro with the tiny tunnel. 
I had to have the poling platform custom built around the motor. I drew it up and my shop fabbed it up and I mounted it and made the deck. It will still hit if I try to tilt it too much with the motor fully jacked but that’s not happening while running. I wanted it as short as possible but still clear in real running positions.


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## txredfly

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I think that trapezoid tunnel works very well, much better than the newest HB Pro with the tiny tunnel.
> I had to have the poling platform custom built around the motor. I drew it up and my shop fabbed it up and I mounted it and made the deck. It will still hit if I try to tilt it too much with the motor fully jacked but that’s not happening while running. I wanted it as short as possible but still clear in real running positions.


Smack post a good pic of that platform.


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## Smackdaddy53

txredfly said:


> Smack post a good pic of that platform.


Here are a few, I have too many photos to go through. I’ve got some of the day I installed it somewhere.


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## Surffshr

I’m digging the idea of the lower platform more forward.


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## Smackdaddy53

Surffshr said:


> I’m digging the idea of the lower platform more forward.


The higher you are the further you can spot fish. 36-38” isn’t too high. My last boat’s platform was 44” and I sight cast a lot of fish, even large trout from it. If your boat is tippy or you’re a big un then lower is better.


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## crboggs

Capnredfish said:


> That hull lift is a unique sensation. As you get real shallow you feel the boat rise.


*lol* Yup. That's when you know things are getting serious.


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## skinnydip

Smack how do you keep your low water pick up from picking up grass. I had one on my chittum and took it off eventually as i didnt feel like it was worth the trouble corpus south because of the grass issues. it ran crazy skinny with great pressure. my chittum with out it will run about like my stilt 4 inches for long distance. the other would run in dew but get grass balls in the filter inlets


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## Capnredfish

He has already plowed up all the grass where he fishes. There isn’t anymore! Old beer cans and boots just get knocked aside.


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## Surffshr

IDK about @skinnydip, but most of my issues with grass down here are from mats of floating grass wrapping up the front LU and choking off water to the screens. This was all the time on my Shallow Sport, but not too bad with the Lostmen. Time will tell with the Guide.


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## Smackdaddy53

Surffshr said:


> IDK about @skinnydip, but most of my issues with grass down here are from mats of floating grass wrapping up the front LU and choking off water to the screens. This was all the time on my Shallow Sport, but not too bad with the Lostmen. Time will tell with the Guide.


That’s what shuts a lot of people down, just like running offshore back when we actually had weed lines. You’d eventually catch enough around the front of the lower unit to make you overheat and have to stop, throw it in reverse and romp it to get it off.
When your pickup is flush with the bottom of the hull it can’t get caught on it.


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## skinnydip

interesting concept. Would love to discuss further with you. Hals concept sucked up grass that plugged the inlet to the inline filter right at the filter. It was not manageable due to frequent clogs. He had looked at hull intake but in testing wasnt happy with it. He is always looking for new mouse trap. Your concept is pretty cool


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## Smackdaddy53

skinnydip said:


> interesting concept. Would love to discuss further with you. Hals concept sucked up grass that plugged the inlet to the inline filter right at the filter. It was not manageable due to frequent clogs. He had looked at hull intake but in testing wasnt happy with it. He is always looking for new mouse trap. Your concept is pretty cool


Nice talking with you brother!


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## SHOAL

This pic might help guys understand, cav plate is level with rub rail. Rigged this way these hulls are on the extreme side an getting water to it creates a problem.








Smack I just got Jack's intakes in the mail..


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## Smackdaddy53

SHOAL said:


> This pic might help guys understand, cav plate is level with rub rail. Rigged this way these hulls are on the extreme side an getting water to it creates a problem.
> View attachment 112186
> 
> Smack I just got Jack's intakes in the mail..


That should do it. What prop are you running?


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## SHOAL

Forman, that pic was after jack plate installed.


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## Smackdaddy53

Very nice. Let us know how they perform. That high might me stretching it trying to get clean, non aerated water to the pickups being that high. 90% of the time I’m running jacked about halfway or 3/4 of the way up unless I absolutely have to skip across a sand bar or long sand flat to get to the extreme back of the back lakes.


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## jonterr

How


SHOAL said:


> This pic might help guys understand, cav plate is level with rub rail. Rigged this way these hulls are on the extreme side an getting water to it creates a problem.
> View attachment 112186
> 
> Smack I just got Jack's intakes in the mail..


d you skiff your foot running that high? Jk


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## jonterr

jonterr said:


> How
> 
> d you skiff your foot running that high? Jk


Not skiff
Scuff! Spell check sucks


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## SHOAL

Scuff foot is from before when mounted to trans the way Maverick rigs boat. Smack, that's kinda what I'm figuring out somewhere around 3 1/2 is where I'm running normal. Above that is where start to lose pressure, an fast..


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## SHOAL

Looks promising, will test this weekend.


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## skinnydip

jacks intakes help but to get where mack is would be unlikely. hopefully you will be good enough with jacks inlets , i like mine


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## Smackdaddy53

skinnydip said:


> jacks intakes help but to get where mack is would be unlikely. hopefully you will be good enough with jacks inlets , i like mine


He tried them, still no good. I’m working on something...


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## CKEAT

Why did it not work?


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## Backwater

Mac, did you say your tunnel is creating suction? Are you wanting to release the suction on hole shot?


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## Bowen3

My rig is like smacks. Motor just sets to high for jacks screens. I think they are great and should work on most rigs, but not on raised transoms


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## Smackdaddy53

CKEAT said:


> Why did it not work?


Not sure if his compression plate isn’t far enough forward or what but I think he is still ingesting aerated water or has cooling issues as I explain below. I had similar issues when I first jacked my motor way up a few years ago. 


Backwater said:


> Mac, did you say your tunnel is creating suction? Are you wanting to release the suction on hole shot?


No, mine is good to go. If you are alluding to adding a vent...I’ll try it if you fund it! Bwahaha


Bowen3 said:


> My rig is like smacks. Motor just sets to high for jacks screens. I think they are great and should work on most rigs, but not on raised transoms


I still think something isn’t quite right, Jack has these on several tunnels with outboards just as high with no issues. You may have crusty cooling passages like my motor had causing less than efficient cooling when I jacked her up. The cooling passages need bare metal to dissipate heat. If there is a later of deposits on them it will insulate the heat and not allow the water to cool the block.


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## commtrd

Once had a yam 115 commercial on a shallowsport that the passages were all salted and corroded so bad water wasn't getting thru. I pulled the heads and used a drill motor with many bits to laboriously drill out all the passages. PITA, but got it all cleaned up nice and re-painted with good zinc chromate primer, new thermostat, new water pump, and it was good as new again. The 4-strokes will be more of a PITA to pull the heads due to valve train. Have to have clean water passages absolutely when running big lift on tunnels.


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## Backwater

Smackdaddy53 said:


> No, mine is good to go. If you are alluding to adding a vent...I’ll try it if you fund it! Bwahaha


I guess you and I talked about it at Boatbrains house, right? I know how it's designed. I really don't think it would cost that much. I don't have a tunnel hull, but if I did, I'd do it. I actually know where the mold to that tunnel hull is (about 30mins from me). It's pretty close to Bob's.


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## Bowen3

Don’t think it’s a water passage issue. Never over heated. At 3 on JP I have 30 psi. At 3.5 I have 0 psi. Could be related to compression plate. Not sure . Will let you know what fixed it.


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## Smackdaddy53

Backwater said:


> I guess you and I talked about it at Boatbrains house, right? I know how it's designed. I really don't think it would cost that much. I don't have a tunnel hull, but if I did, I'd do it. I actually know where the mold to that tunnel hull is (about 30mins from me). It's pretty close to Bob's.


I want to splash mine one day.


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## Smackdaddy53

Bowen3 said:


> Don’t think it’s a water passage issue. Never over heated. At 3 on JP I have 30 psi. At 3.5 I have 0 psi. Could be related to compression plate. Not sure . Will let you know what fixed it.


Either way the Tran plate is the way to go for running extremely high, those cougar marine, shaw and whatever other 12 bolt designs out there don’t have enough curve down like we spoke about.


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## SeaDrifter

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Either way the Tran plate is the way to go for running extremely high, those cougar marine, shaw and whatever other 12 bolt designs out there don’t have enough curve down like we spoke about.


 If you aren't tied up Feb 7th, 8th, or 9th I will be back down and would love for you to look at my setup if possible. I cannot run past 5k without getting the overheat alarm unless I run the JP all the way down and that puts my prop below the hull and well below the tunnel. Would be more than happy to treat you to a meal/drinks at La Terraza? The Majek stays there all the time too if you happen to be in the area.



Michael


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## Smackdaddy53

SeaDrifter said:


> If you aren't tied up Feb 7th, 8th, or 9th I will be back down and would love for you to look at my setup if possible. I cannot run past 5k without getting the overheat alarm unless I run the JP all the way down and that puts my prop below the hull and well below the tunnel. Would be more than happy to treat you to a meal/drinks at La Terraza? The Majek stays there all the time too if you happen to be in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> Michael


We can meet up one day, right now I’n about to assemble my engine and get the fishing wagon back on the road. It never fails that I have big projects during my favorite time to fish.


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