# Custom fly rods



## Devin (Jan 15, 2019)

I build rods but currently have around a 4 month wait time


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## CoffeeCreekFlies (Jun 22, 2019)

Devin said:


> I build rods but currently have around a 4 month wait time


What are your rods called


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## Devin (Jan 15, 2019)

CoffeeCreekFlies said:


> What are your rods called


Nomad rod company


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Ron Hickman on here builds fly rods


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2019)

Just curious why you need a custom rod - especially if you’re looking for one at a good price? What’s a custom 6 wt going to do for you that a Scott Meridian, Loomis NRX or Sage Salt is not going to do?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Baystyat build them and his rod was on the cover of a magazine


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## Howard Cummings (Apr 8, 2016)

Coastal Creek Outfitters.


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## Andrew Jones (Mar 22, 2016)

Greg Lyles said:


> Just curious why you need a custom rod - especially if you’re looking for one at a good price? What’s a custom 6 wt going to do for you that a Scott Meridian, Loomis NRX or Sage Salt is not going to do?


For me, I prefer a larger diameter grip over what they sale off the shelf. When they manufacture the grips, they have the small hands of a lady or young man/boy in mind.


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## LTChip (Jan 18, 2017)

Andrew Jones said:


> For me, I prefer a larger diameter grip over what they sale off the shelf. When they manufacture the grips, they have the small hands of a lady or young man/boy in mind.


You can customize your OTS rod to achieve your goal.


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## Doublehaul (Oct 3, 2015)

LTChip said:


> You can customize your OTS rod to achieve your goal.


There are different tapes/wraps that people use to supplement the diameter of handle


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## Rick Cohen (Apr 10, 2019)

my two cents worth...you buy a custom rod and it is built on a "B" blank...the blank is guaranteed for whatever time period but thats all they replace if warranty issue...you still have to have it rebuilt which will cost you another $300 to $400-ish usually...it is also much harder to sell a "custom rod" used because it is built for you! Just saying!


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## LTChip (Jan 18, 2017)

That's true if building it yourself but it depends on the builder's policies for one you commission- most should offer as good or better warranties as the major OTS makers - and some of the blanks used are mainly used in bespoke applications so there is more choice there as well in some cases.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

@johnmauser might be a good place to start.


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## Snakesurf (Jun 18, 2019)

I have been building fly rods for over 30 years and you can definitely get a better fly rod from a builder. Most will give you some sort of guarantee on the blank. It is really the blank manufacturers that carry the guarantee and the builder will replace your blank and charge you to put the guides on and whatever else is a loss like the grips and real seat. (usually just the tip on a fly rod). If you have built rods this is an issue and most have a solution. I would find a builder in your area and talk to them and see what they are producing. You will need someone that builds their own grips and turns them themselves. I do it because I to have a large hand and prefer a larger grip and I use all titanium corrosion proof guides on saltwater rods. Sorry I know a lot of you hate FB but they let you do this.
https://www.facebook.com/Snakesurfperformance/


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

No rod builder can stay in business offering a lifetime warranty, plain and simple. If they do it’s because they are buying $10 Chinese rod blanks and are running a sweat shop.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> No rod builder can stay in business offering a lifetime warranty, plain and simple. If they do it’s because they are buying $10 Chinese rod blanks and are running a sweat shop.


Pretty sure most of them offer a lifetime warranty, including Scott, Sage, Winston and Loomis. Now, those warranties apply only to the original owner when bought through an authorized dealer and Loomis may charge a replacement fee if they determine that the damage was due to normal wear and tear, accident or neglect, but every fly rod I've ever owned came with a lifetime warranty - and every broken rod was repaired or replaced for a very nominal fee.


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## Devin (Jan 15, 2019)

On the topic of warranties, I will say that rod blanks will only break from misuse and abuse. Rods don't randomly break, if there is a flaw in blank construction, the rod will break within the first handful of uses


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2019)

Devin said:


> On the topic of warranties, I will say that rod blanks will only break from misuse and abuse. Rods don't randomly break, if there is a flaw in blank construction, the rod will break within the first handful of uses


Not at all so. I've broken plenty from fighting fish over the past 30+ years.


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## Devin (Jan 15, 2019)

It may break while you're fighting the fish, but usually due to it being damaged at some point prior and developing a "bruise"


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## LTChip (Jan 18, 2017)

Sage (and others) for sure charges a fee (last time I did it- it was $90 as I recall) for accidental breakage...defects are another thing and should be covered under warranty - Think of it like this.... you are just buying a breakage insurance policy in the premium over fair value built into their prices and that insurance policy comes with the rod and has a $90 deductible (in the case of Sage). For some, its' worth it but I have lately been going to more economical options...I am over the Orvis/Sage/G.Loomis/Winston/Hardy/etc. thing - I found my Ross and Echo rods are just about indistinguishable in quality and performance...I also find high quality and high value in the cheap Chinese eBay no-name rods and reels - you can replace them for the cost of the Sage deductible just about....and I found some eBay sellers to be excellent - one helped me by sending me a replacement section when I snapped my no-name 10 wt trying to get a clauser out of a tree...cost me $30 for the section on a $130 rod.

All that said, custom rods are probably a better value than high-end OTS rods so long as you get yours from someone with a good reputation and especially considering you get exactly what you want.


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## LTChip (Jan 18, 2017)

Devin said:


> It may break while you're fighting the fish, but usually due to it being damaged at some point prior and developing a "bruise"


Agree - heavy streamer comes back - wind knocks it into the rod and next big fish snaps it in 2 - had it happen a few times - learned to be better casting over the years so not so much anymore


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Greg Lyles said:


> Not at all so. I've broken plenty from fighting fish over the past 30+ years.


Greg, you can argue all you want but I have worked with custom and production rods for quite a while now and can tell you that rods don’t just break while fighting fish unless they have been compromised by being fractured or weakened previously or you high stick them and put stress on the tip that the blank is not designed to handle. I’m not going to get into a pissing match and waste a bunch of time posting diagrams showing different types of breaks and what causes them but I will tell you if a rod blank is not defective it will not just break for no reason if handled correctly. 
As far as the lifetime warranty thing you post about, none of those rod companies are custom builders, they are production rod companies that get their blanks and components in bulk and have a staff working for them. I was referring to a true custom rod builder as in one single person building one rod at a time. As reckless as most people are with fishing rods a custom builder can’t make a living rebuilding rods for free, not even for a nominal rebuild fee. Trying to remove a reel seat, grips, guides etc and putting them on a replacement blank takes more time than just building a whole new rod from scratch. I’m not trying to school you, just educating you on a subject I know quite a bit about.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I have gotten a number of custom rods built over the years and built many myself. The clear advantage being you can get just what you want. But I stopped going this route a couple of years ago as there are major disadvantages that made it no longer attractive.

1. Custom builders come and go like the wind. I had mine built by a custom shop that had been in business for many many years. Then last year they closed up shop. So bye bye any warranty.

2. Even if they are still in business its a PITA. Lets say you have a custom build rod on a Sage blank and it breaks. You send the rod to the builder typically at your cost. Then they send the broken rod to Sage, Sage agrees its covered and they send a new blank to the builder. Then the builder builds you a new rod and ships it back to you. You pay whatever the blank warranty costs plus whatever the builder charges you plus the shipping. People whine on here all the time about brand X and it takes a longer than it should to get a new rod back. And that is a problem. Well its compounded when you go the custom route.

So just know upfront what you are getting in to. To me, especially if its a rod you are using a lot, its not worth going this route.


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## LTChip (Jan 18, 2017)

Lower-end OTS - great value - performance nearly on par with most expensive rods, less prestige/proud owner factor - warranty's vary in terms and execution
High-end OTS - great performance but not proportional to price premium, prestige factor if you care about keeping up with appearances, warranty's vary in terms and execution
Custom - you get what you want, premium in price may be close to high end OTS, performance can match high-end OTS or exceed, prestige factor can be high, warranty's vary in terms and execution


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Greg, you can argue all you want but I have worked with custom and production rods for quite a while now and can tell you that rods don’t just break while fighting fish unless they have been compromised by being fractured or weakened previously or you high stick them and put stress on the tip that the blank is not designed to handle. I’m not going to get into a pissing match and waste a bunch of time posting diagrams showing different types of breaks and what causes them but I will tell you if a rod blank is not defective it will not just break for no reason if handled correctly.
> As far as the lifetime warranty thing you post about, none of those rod companies are custom builders, they are production rod companies that get their blanks and components in bulk and have a staff working for them. I was referring to a true custom rod builder as in one single person building one rod at a time. As reckless as most people are with fishing rods a custom builder can’t make a living rebuilding rods for free, not even for a nominal rebuild fee. Trying to remove a reel seat, grips, guides etc and putting them on a replacement blank takes more time than just building a whole new rod from scratch. I’m not trying to school you, just educating you on a subject I know quite a bit about.


Your original post on the topic stated "No rod builder can stay in business offering a lifetime warranty, plain and simple. If they do it’s because they are buying $10 Chinese rod blanks and are running a sweat shop.". Don't see anywhere in that statement where you differentiate between production rod companies, such as those I mention, and custom rod builders.

I tend to lean towards custom-built firearms for many reasons, but have never cast a custom-built fly rod that I could tell much difference in a higher-end Scott, Sage or Loomis.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Higher end fly rods are already built with better quality parts. Other than having it look just how you want or a different style of guides/reel seat/grip there is almost zero real difference in performance between a high end OTS and the same high end rod blank custom built.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Since I've been making rods for many years - and I also own a few older Sage rods... Here's some info that most may have missed about that "lifetime warranty" from Sage... They've actually quit repairing their older rods (at least at any reasonable cost...)... I own a pair of the old RPL+ rods (an 8 and a 7wt...) and when you find out what Sage wants for warranty work on them -you'll run the other way... By comparison I contacted Thomas and Thomas to get a new tip section for a two piece 12wt rod that was not a warranty proposition for a blank they haven't made in 20 years... All they asked for was the last ten inches of the broken tip section -and they will make me a duplicate for less than seventy dollars (I'll be doing the wrapping and finishing since it's a rod I built myself about 24 years ago)... I'm very fond of those old Horizon blanks (real cannons if you use 10 to 12 wt rods - and the matching 10 wt that I built all those years ago - is still in hard commercial service....) 

I've long thought that the whole "lifetime warranty" exercise was bound to become costly over time (particularly for rod companies that have been successful and not changed hands over the years... Check out their new warranty policy and you may be in for a surprise... 

As for custom builders there are quite a few really good ones around - but none of them can match a rod company's warranty (unless they're very low volume). Ask Randy Towe down in Islamorada what happened to him after he relied on Sage for his blanks - then got cut off by them back in the late eighties.... after he became successful enough that they decided not to supply him with blanks - cold...

I long ago quit building rods for anyone other than myself after having more than one guy snap an inch or two off of a brand new rod (ceiling fans are hard on most rods...) then ask that I do a "warranty replacement" for free....

The only rods I buy these days are fly rods (since I just can't build a replacement quick enough when I'm booked hot and heavy..). For fly rods all I ask is a reasonable warranty replacement charge and a quick turnaround to get another rod to me if it's a warranty proposition...


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## paulrad (May 10, 2016)

For me, I swore off of mass produced surfboards a few years ago. I only get custom boards from a smaller shop now. I talk to the shaper and tell him what want. He builds it. Same with fly rods. Same with guns if I can help it. There's something old school about it. I like the interaction with a human, rather than just giving my money to some billion dollar multinational corporation. I like the idea of supporting a small business. I like the thought of a business owned by the same guy that answers your emails and phone calls. He is also the same guy that specifies the characteristics of the blank and went through tons of prototypes before he got what he wanted. Heck, that might even be the same guy that actually put your rod together for you. Supporting that just feels right to me. It's something I want to a part of. I'll never go back to sage/loomis/orvis/scott/etc.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Devin said:


> It may break while you're fighting the fish, but usually due to it being damaged at some point prior and developing a "bruise"


The bruise is most often caused by a burr on the eyes that was not sanded off before being mounted.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

DuckNut said:


> The bruise is most often caused by a burr on the eyes that was not sanded off before being mounted.


A great reason to use Mike McCoy’s Snake Brand fly rod guides. They are made with a cupped foot and some of the finest fly rod guides out there. He’s a great guy and very knowledgeable.
https://store.snakeguides.com/Universal-Snake-Guides--ECOating_p_25.html


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## Luke Faulkner (Aug 8, 2019)

permitchaser said:


> Ron Hickman on here builds fly rods


About how much do they cost?


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Luke Faulkner said:


> About how much do they cost?


i don't know pm Ron


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Rick Cohen said:


> my two cents worth...you buy a custom rod and it is built on a "B" blank...the blank is guaranteed for whatever time period but thats all they replace if warranty issue...you still have to have it rebuilt which will cost you another $300 to $400-ish usually...it is also much harder to sell a "custom rod" used because it is built for you! Just saying!


You are right my custom made 13 wt. Was built on a Sage II probably 30 years ago and Sage won't fix if I break it


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## TX_Brad (Jun 8, 2018)

permitchaser said:


> i don't know pm Ron


I build rods for myself, and the answer is “it depends”. You can get a fly rod made for a few hundred or you can go crazy and spend $2k. I will say, after building a few rods, I find it hard manufacturers actually make money.


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## Luke Faulkner (Aug 8, 2019)

permitchaser said:


> i don't know pm Ron


I tried to, says he hasn’t been active since April. I actually found one of his rods for sale online for $40. Was wondering how much of a steal that was


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2019)

permitchaser said:


> You are right my custom made 13 wt. Was built on a Sage II probably 30 years ago and Sage won't fix if I break it


They will. But you will pay $150 for each section you break plus the postage costs to send the entire rod to the factory and back. They need the whole rod to do the job right. Because you didnt buy a factory rod you may find for that money you only get the bare blank. If its the tip section and you talk to them politely they may do a full rebuild to help you out. Sage are still a good company and I find they help people if you only talk to them. 30yrs? Haven't you had your monies worth then?


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

A. Fluker said:


> They will. But you will pay $150 for each section you break plus the postage costs to send the entire rod to the factory and back. They need the whole rod to do the job right. Because you didnt buy a factory rod you may find for that money you only get the bare blank. If its the tip section and you talk to them politely they may do a full rebuild to help you out. Sage are still a good company and I find they help people if you only talk to them. 30yrs? Haven't you had your monies worth then?


I broke the tip off my 7 wt. Sage II. Called Sage was very nice. Sent it back to them and they sent it back with a note that it was too old to fix. So I don’t think they repair 30 year old rods anymore


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

Rod building is easy and you can purchase every component thats available on high end rods these days. My cousin built a American tackle matrix 8wt and it has lasted a long time. We both build all our inshore rods and haven't had one snap or break in the last 10 years. Fly rods should be the same its how its used and taken care if that will determine its longevity. We spin cork as well. Its a hobby thats pretty relaxing and rewarding just like fly tying. Its not the arrows its the indian... just because its not a sage, hardy, orvis, etc doesnt mean its good quality. Just figured id give my two cents. I think fly fishing rods are way overpriced


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2019)

Not true at all they still have All the technology to repair that rod. I bought my first Sage in 1992, still have the catalogue if you want me to post a picture, thats 27yrs ago.and they can still provide a new section but it.costs. What they was saying in a polite way was that your rod wasnt worth the cost of repair. If you have the money they will build you any section of any rod.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2019)

Rookiemistake said:


> Rod building is easy and you can purchase every component thats available on high end rods these days. My cousin built a American tackle matrix 8wt and it has lasted a long time. We both build all our inshore rods and haven't had one snap or break in the last 10 years. Fly rods should be the same its how its used and taken care if that will determine its longevity. We spin cork as well. Its a hobby thats pretty relaxing and rewarding just like fly tying. Its not the arrows its the indian... just because its not a sage, hardy, orvis, etc doesnt mean its good quality. Just figured id give my two cents. I think fly fishing rods are way overpriced


No rod builder has been denied the components, I was repairing rods as.a.teenager then building rods for adults.age 17. Thats because none of us had any money. You.have the Internet now and mass produced Chinese blanks, try doing it from a book and having to WRITE a letter to a good company for advice. You.don't know your born.


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

A. Fluker said:


> No rod builder has been denied the components, I was repairing rods as.a.teenager then building rods for adults.age 17. Thats because none of us had any money. You.have the Internet now and mass produced Chinese blanks, try doing it from a book and having to WRITE a letter to a good company for advice. You.don't know your born.


Ok thanks. welcome to the future! Welcome to the interwebs. Its the time we live in. And dont knock the chinese stuff some of it is pretty impressive.lots of things are assembled in the usa , component wise made in china.. Solid fishing rod blanks are coming back ...so maybe there will be a solid fly rod made the same way and maybe less breakages..


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2019)

WOW!!! Your knowledge of building rod blanks is just......incredible. Your knowledge of.fly.casting must be the same. Let me.explain.....once upon a time in a Galaxy a.long long.time ago....they tried making solid blanks. Not here anymore. Been said lots of times.on this post......fly rods break because of the owner and therefore the caster.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

A. Fluker said:


> Not true at all they still have All the technology to repair that rod. I bought my first Sage in 1992, still have the catalogue if you want me to post a picture, thats 27yrs ago.and they can still provide a new section but it.costs. What they was saying in a polite way was that your rod wasnt worth the cost of repair. If you have the money they will build you any section of any rod.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2019)

Then you are correct and I am wrong. Graphite III must have been the cut off point.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Exactly, it is not always a customer service thing, sometimes it has to do with the materials. We deal with this all the in the rod building industry. With some companies it is not that they refuse to fix, repair or replace, it is because they can not. Same with motors and many other products. Parts and materials are just no longer available.

Graphite, resins and techniques continue to evolve and it is just impossible to keep a roll of all the different materials they have used over the years. Im guessing the same reason Orvis lists a 25yr warranty that if they can't fix it, they will replace. To echo what Sage said, hopefully you have made great memories with that rod and cherish them. You can't take that rod when you go and Im sure the memories made are worth it. All about perspective...


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## johnmauser (Sep 9, 2009)

mtoddsolomon said:


> @johnmauser might be a good place to start.


Thanks for the mention Todd!

We build production rods right now, but we will be opening a custom shop section this year that will allow anglers to get these minor changes, like grip size, or wrap color, etc at a very nominal fee.

This looks like a really good thread, looking forward to reading through it and adding a few thoughts as soon as I get a little free time.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

johnmauser said:


> Thanks for the mention Todd!
> 
> We build production rods right now, but we will be opening a custom shop section this year that will allow anglers to get these minor changes, like grip size, or wrap color, etc at a very nominal fee.
> 
> This looks like a really good thread, looking forward to reading through it and adding a few thoughts as soon as I get a little free time.


Your Waterman 890 is a fantastic stick. The finish work is top notch as well. Great job.


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