# 15'4 gheenoe duck build



## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

This is my gheenoe highsider ive had for about a year. I used it last season, gheenoes are great duck boats for getting in tight spots, but I have some mods I want to get done before the next season: front and rear decks, fase floor as well as keeping the middle of the boat open.


blind I built for last season



















boat all cut up and stripped down



















seats and livewell removed










this is the livewell. I cut it out, split it down the middle, and widened it a couple inches. Next I will split it down the middle again and glass each side to the inside walls of the boat. these will be filled with foam for supports and have a lip so it can hold a box of shells or something.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Looking good.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

Nice ! enter it in the CG Camo contest ...

Dave


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

haha, yeah maybe once its all done. im wanting to try the camo stencil kits the sell. Ill get some more pics once i get a little more progress.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

Ok guys, I have 3 big questions i need answered before i get back to work #1 how do i know if it is time to replace the stringers in the floor of the boat? #2 what kind of wood is usually used for that? #3 how are most of these guys building false floors? do you just start laying glass on a flat surface, let it harden and place it down, or do some people use wood or high dense foam as the base and then glass over it??? I would like to know so I can start shopping around, in the meantime I'll be sanding and grinding some more. Thanks! 



[smiley=hammer.gif]


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

How many hunters are you going to try and put in the boat? I hunt from my 15'4" solo and use it as a layout boat. Its very comfortable. I run bungee cord all the way around and stuff reeds and lily pads into it. Its very effective plus its cheap and easy.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

I am actually going to be hunting up to 3 people in the boat, but if by myself I am def. goin to give that a try, that is why I want to keep the inside of the boat pretty open, figured we can all fit 3 lined up in the middle of the boat or i can lie down, but thats why I want to install false floors.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> Ok guys, I have 3 big questions i need answered before i get back to work #1 how do i know if it is time to replace the stringers in the floor of the boat? #2 what kind of wood is usually used for that? #3 how are most of these guys building false floors? do you just start laying glass on a flat surface, let it harden and place it down, or do some people use wood or high dense foam as the base and then glass over it??? I would like to know so I can start shopping around, in the meantime I'll be sanding and grinding some more. Thanks!


Highsiders don't have stringers. If you want to put in a false floor thats cool. The NMZ version has one. All you need to do is glass up a flat piece and cut it to lay into the most narrow groove. You shouldn't need to put any extra support in if you make a sturdy piece. 

Here is a pic where I put in some red highlights to show where the NMZ has a false floor glassed in.












> I am actually going to be hunting up to 3 people in the boat, but if by myself I am def. goin to give that a try, that is why I want to keep the inside of the boat pretty open, figured we can all fit 3 lined up in the middle of the boat or i can lie down, but thats why I want to install false floors.



3 people is a stretch. I have been in a classic with 3 people, deeks, guns, blinds, etc. It can get very cramped but its do able. Are you planning on fishing open water like that or shorelines? What are you doing for a motor?


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

i hunted 3 people out of it last year, its not the best rig, but in case i have to drag another hunter around with me, 2 people is comfortable. I fish freshwater only, but i still would like to have drains and a bilge pump for the floors, it likes to rain ALOT when i go hunting. ;D But i am currently in the process of building a 6.5 hp longtail motor. My design is after the beavertail or go-devil concept. hoping to finish that build by regular season. For early season im thinking about the trolling motor for PCS phosphate WMA in white springs.


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

might want to add a winch if you are going to PCS. ive had hard mornings this past season, that after the hunt, with semi frost bite, i could barely drag my little kayak and dekes back up the hill to the truck. where did you hunt last year? 8a?8b?6?.....


yes, tom's bungee cord trick is amazing. it will be done to my hunting rig before sept.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

Im actually a virgin to PCS, so as you can imagine I am super excited, I wasted my time hunting lake Jackson last year. I honestly have thought about buying one of those tiny chiny winches from Harbor Freight. haha there only like $49.99. haha


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

With 3 people in that boat, decoys, guns, gear, and a 6.5 longtail be careful. That's a lot of weight, and the longtail has a lot of leverage when you drop that prop in the water trying to scoot the stern around. 

One wrong move by one of the guys and you're gonna be in with the fishes.

Why not ditch the whole seat idea, install a flat floor stem-to-stern and then you can use folding ez-chairs for seats. MUCH more comfy than sitting on a 'glass box, you'll have much more leg room, and you can add or delete seats as needed. 

Plus they take up a lot less room when folded if you don't need them. 

Plus, then you can use the boat as a true layout-style sneak attack vessel by laying down in it!

This is what I'm doing to the classic hull I'm (supposed to be) working on....

-T


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## FSUfisher (Jul 16, 2007)

> Im actually a virgin to PCS, so as you can imagine I am super excited, I wasted my time hunting lake Jackson last year.  I honestly have thought about buying one of those tiny chiny winches from Harbor Freight. haha there only like $49.99. haha


Haha I hunted Jackson for years and it took me moving away to realize what a waste of time it was looking back. At least you have the right idea with the pop-up blind. That lake's too crowded.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

yeah Im not gonna hunt three often, actually I dont even think it's leagal beacuse the limit on the boat is 2.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

hey guys, im planning on ordering my resin some time this week. Im looking at RAKA epoxies kit with resin/ hardener. What would be the best for making the false floors and decks: medium, thick, thin,.....fast,slow,medium??? also what mat and cloth should i order? 6oz.? thanks


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## FSUfisher (Jul 16, 2007)

I don't have nearly as much experience as some on the board, but from what I've used I would say to stay away from thin epoxy. The stuff is actually thinner than paint and it made it kind of hard to work with when I was building my deck. And if this is your first build I would go with at least medium hardener if not slow. That stuff hardens pretty fast. From what I've heard 6 oz cloth should be fine. I'm sure others will chime in with more solid advice.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

ok, yeah thanks. I have some experience with polyester resin but i have never used epoxy. I might go with the medium or slow just because ive never used this stuff. im working with flat objects so i dont really need it to kick like i would if i was working it alot. Plus id prefer just to play it safe. Id rather wait than Re-Do. haha


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I like the thin viscosity with a medium hardner. This will give enough time to coat because after you mix it get it out of the container. If you work from the container it will get hot pretty fast and then it is lost. By getting it onto a flat surface it will not kick nearly as fast and the working time is about 15-18 minutes. If you use the slow you can expect to wait 24 hours before doing any sanding...makes for slow progress.

I also like the thin because it allows for easier coating and the right glass to epoxy mix. Remember the right mix is if you are using 10 oz's of glass then you should only need 10 oz's of epoxy (weight not volume).

6oz cloth would be enough. You do not need to use the cloth on the bottom- just coat the bottom and edges with straight epoxy.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

thanks Ducknut, so if you don't glass the bottom of the wood, then how many layers of cloth would be enough on the top of the deck? I sanded down the bottom of the boat today (trying to get the old paint and mess off so i can see the gelcoat) I discovered some more hidden skuffs and gashes"needs some more glasswork" -will this combination work well on the exterior of the boat?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

> so if you don't glass the bottom of the wood, then how many layers of cloth would be enough on the top of the deck?


 The cloth is for abrasion resistance on the structure and in this case would be plywood. How many layers would depend on how bad you are going to abuse her. If you just leave the anchor on the floor all the time while wave jumping then I would go with two 12oz. From what you appear to be using it for on layer of 6 or 9 would be fine.



> "needs some more glasswork" -will this combination work well on the exterior of the boat?


 Need a little better description of your thought process. Typically, you will need to remove the gelcoat in the aresa you want to repair. Please elaborate.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

Small chunks of the bottom are missing. Haha. I patched it last year with some bondo brand fiberglass. Cheap polyester and it didnt even hold up for a year. Im asking if the epoxy we were talking about would be suitable for patching the hull correctly. medium-thin with 6 oz? I know a little about working with fiberglass, and I dont know much about choosing materials. I want to do it right this time. it wouldnt be a crazy idea to re- gelcoat the bottom after this is done would it? I want it thick so i dont have to worry about running shallow.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

> ...for patching the hull correctly.


 Yes.



> medium-thin with 6 oz?


 No.

You need to turn the resin into a bondo type of material and that is accomplished by adding Cabosil. You add this material to the resin until it is as thick as peanut butter. Start real small because it will take experimenting to get all of the clumps out before you get it spread out and it begins to kick.

Then use it just like the bondo...remember, the quality of the patch depends on the prep work.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

ok thanks, ill throw that into the cart at rakaepoxy.com No more west marine! college students cant afford shopping there


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

Been doing some more sanding. I still have yet to order my epoxy and supplies. Hopefully I can order it all tonight. Oh yeah, my prop for my mud motor came in. Havent had anytime to work on that lately, I still need to order my bushings, bearings, and tube.
















hey ducknut! this is one of the scabbs i was talking about.Your suggesting I use filler for this?                      









OH YEAH!!!!! Thats right, Stainless baby!!!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Can't tell how deep that chunk is. If it more than 1/4 - 3/8 then I would fill with layers of cloth and resin.

For the bottom I would add graphite powder to the epoxy and give it two coats. Tape off what you think is the waterline and coat it. Put the second on after the first has kicked but is still semi soft to the finger nail. Then paint the rest of the boat. Since you are putting a mud motor on you will never regret it.

I think TomFL has a nice shot in the "Baby Ducker" thread.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

yeah, I want it really thick on the bottom. I was thinking of slapping on gelcoat, but it seems that the only form of gelcoat you can buy is for patch work or repairs. Is what your sugesting alot like having an additional gelcoat? And is simply applied by roller? would a high viscosity epoxy be key?


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Can't tell how deep that chunk is.  If it more than 1/4 - 3/8 then I would fill with layers of cloth and resin.
> 
> For the bottom I would add graphite powder to the epoxy and give it two coats.  Tape off what you think is the waterline and coat it.  Put the second on after the first has kicked but is still semi soft to the finger nail.  Then paint the rest of the boat.  Since you are putting a mud motor on you will never regret it.
> 
> I think TomFL has a nice shot in the "Baby Ducker" thread.


Anyone who's worked on a gheenoe knows it can't be more than 1/4" in depth because if it was, you'd be seeing daylight through it! Never seen a gheenoe thicker than say 1/8"!!

Yeah, the epoxy/graphite mix is good stuff, check those threads above for a pic on the little 13 I did. A better (but more expensive) solution would be that teflon stuff from the guys in WPB if anyone can remember. Kinda like the frog spit. 

-T


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

Charlie I will tell you what I can in as few words as possible.

The thin epoxy has diluents added. It is not as waterproof or strong as pure resin and hardener.

Epoxy is formulated in many different ways to be flexible, strong, abrasion or temperature resistant etc.

For your use the "best" I know of or rather what I use is Raka's HP 900 resin with 631 hardener plus 1/3 graphite powder by volume. This formulation has proven very durable and cost effective. 

You can always sand and recoat and you don't have to paint over it. I would apply a single heavy coat using a plastic V grooved trowel (narrow putty knife shaped) to distribute the epoxy mix and smoothed out with a sponge brush. It will be self leveling and tend to run if applied too thick so use the finest toothed notched spreader you can find.

I have used steelflex and frogspit on airboat hulls. Find it here. http://www.fascoepoxies.com/ 

Find Raka here 
http://www.raka.com/

Good luck with it and best regards,
Frank_S


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

oh ok. yeah that sounds good. I think first Im going to order some thin epoxy so I can finish up the inside of the boat. I need to laminate a floor and make some decks. Once I complete the inside I will flip her back over and order some of what your talking about(the raka 900 resin and graphite) Do you think a quart would be enough on the bottom? or would i need more?. Like I have said "im on a college budget", just hoping I can finish all this before early season, but not if it means taking shortcuts.


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

A 1 1/2 qt. kit is $38. That is a real bargain especially if you get it with HP900 and 631. It won't be an actual 1 1/2 QT though as there is a much lower amount of hardener needed to mix it.

It will be enough to do the 15'4" if you do it to the water line. Should be some left over too.

Frank_S


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

Ok, yeah I was looking through jamestowndis.com and westmarine, It is alot cheaper than what they have. Do I need to by the pumps that go with the bottles?, or do you suggest measuring it out?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I never liked the pumps. An unnecessary expense.
Disposable drink cups work great for mixing epoxy.
It's easy to make a reference cup with the mix ratios marked on it.
Marked in 1 ounce increments for 2 to 1 mixing ratios.










Then use it to mark another cup with the fill points to mix in.
Bottom mark is at 2 oz's, top mark is at 3 oz's.
Fill to the 2 oz mark with epoxy, fill the remaining 1 oz with hardener.
Then mix well for about 150 seconds.










Same procedure if marked at 4 oz and 6 oz,
bottom 4 with epoxy, top 2 hardener, for 2 to 1 mix ratio.
After use, dispose of the mixing cup, don't reuse.
The disposable 8 ounce cups come in packs of 50 or 100.

I found those 2 quantities, 3 oz's mixed and 6 oz's mixed
resulted in the least amount of waste.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

yeah that sounds more cost effecient, and it is exact. Not just measured by the number of times you pump the bottle.


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

Outa school for the summer and finally have time to work on my gheenoe. Had time (a whole year) to think it over and think its gonna be a fishin boat first, duck boat second.



Made a transdom the other day. I used 1 1/4'' laminent beam that i had left over from building my transom on my MonArk. After i cut it to shape i covered it in epoxy to seal it up, sanded it, made up a batch of toxic penut butter (graphite and silica) and clamped it together for a couple hours. I think im going to glass over it all just for the heck of it. Let me know if this sounds like a waste of time. 









Traded my buddy all of my mud motor parts for a 1999 8hp 4-stroke Honda. Its a 20'' shaft so ill be building a jackplate. Its my first 4stroke and I think somethings wrong with it, its really quiet ;D


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Great thread. I keep coming back to see your process so keep the photos and updates coming.

And yes glass the new transom.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Is that laminate beam the same thing they use to make the header (not a carpenter, so I may confuse terms) that spans garage doors? I saw that stuff when the house next to me was being built and was thinking it had to be good for something. It was hella heavy and made of congealed wood wafers.

That will be an awesome motor for you. Mud motors are great when you need them, but a regular outboard is so dang adaptable. You'll just have to push pole a little farther.

Nate


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

Honestly, i dont know what they use it for, but it is dang sure heavy duty. My MonArk has a 1 1/4'' thick transom and i liked the idea of usin this instead of bonding two 3/4'' together.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

I was looking into it last night on the Georgia Pacific site checking out engineered lumber specs. 

"Broadspan LVL is coated on faces, edges and at bundle ends with a modified acrylic emulsion film containing a proprietary blend of waxes, acrylic latex, and pigment". 

"GP Lam LVL... is evenly coated on all four sides
and both ends with a modified emulsion
film".

FiberStrong Rim Board features "edge- and end-coating process for moisture resistance".

I don't know about every manufacturer, but I suspect GP will be consistent with standard industry practices and their products are featured heavily in Lowes and Home Depot. Everything I am finding indicates that a sealant containing wax as the first listed ingredient is coated on all or part of the outside of engineered wood beams to protect them from moisture during the construction process. Epoxy doesn't stick to a wax coated surface. 

Your clamping board looks like it is made out of a rim board, so if it is a GP product, it is only end and edge sealed. Most of the surface between the existing skin and the clamping block should be free of wax and get a good bond. You'll get a good bond along edges that you cut. Factory edges won't, but you may never notice. 

Nate


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## sr5boy (May 12, 2010)

yeah i dont think you can find these things at lowes or hd. The whole thing bonded great, I did cut all the edges at a 15 degree cut too so if there was wax on the edges i cut it off. My question for today as i start on my floor, (i split the 2'' pvc pipe and it lays over my keel, the floor will lay over it. I read that polyester resin is best to bond to pvc so i got that and some matt from autozone). QUESTION: what kind of adhesive do i use to bond the pvc pipe to the hull? Can i make something using resin or do I need to get some sort of 3M product?


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