# Increasing stability on a Gheenoe Classic



## DaveInGA

Took the wife for a ride on the boat. She found it way too tippy side to side for her tastes. Is there a way to make the boat more stable and less tippy? I'm finding it more tippy than I'd like as well, since I tend to like to stand and move around the boat when fishing.

I'm considering putting in those "false floors" and wondering if it's possible to add small pontoons and get the stability up to around a 1448 jon boat. If I can't do something to improve the tippiness, I'll have to sell the boat.

Can anyone advise?

Thanks,

Dave


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## mygheenoe1

$1000 and i will come get it


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## JoeWelbourn

Outriggers or more time getting accustom to the boat. I stand on an igloo cooler on top of a deck mounted on top of the rub rails (about 3 feet above the waterline). I have never flipped or fell out. Oh----I run about 20 MPH up there too. Don't be fooled you are hard pressed to tip it over in a normal rig. Great boats that just do not tip.

Joe


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## Tom_C

Take her out in a Canoe ;D


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## litlblusrn4bigred

maybe you should just buy the jon boat. these boats may be tippy but, your not supposed to go out and shake the boat around to find out how tippy it is, esp. with the wife on there. the classic model is totally safe. i have taken my wife and mydaughter who is 7 out on my classic many times, my daughter lays on the platform while we are fishing. It may be a little tippy but, have never had the fear of flipping or falling out. What exactly are you and your wife doing in this boat? hmmmmm [smiley=1-mmm.gif]


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## Guest

DaveinGa,

Take my best advice, U need to have your wife and yourself to spend more time on your classic and start practice balance yourself on the boat.....try to stand up and move around the boat. I know it's like u ride on the surfboard for the first time and u find it very tippy and start practice standing and balance the boat out until u and your wife get used to it then your wife and u will be fine no plm. I have a classic with 25hp....I tried to flip this boat over many times but it's not gotta happend. I had my 15 years old brother and my dad rode on my classic with 40hp in Econlockhatchee river where it had very sharp and twisted turns. I made them scared the hell out of it when I run the classic 30 MPH in very twisted turns but they were very very suprised how the classic handle on the water. They never had a plm with my classic when they walk around and fish. They want my classic back! 

All u gotta do is have your wife and yourself spend more time on your classic until u used to it like a professional surfer can balance the surfboard no plm........u guys can do it! It's takes time......trust your classic.

My 2 cents.


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## CAJUN

Do you have a Gheenoe Classic or a Riverhawk?


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## Guest

> I'm considering putting in those "false floors"


Start here. Pugar put a flat floor in my NMZ - best thing I could have ever done. 



> If I can't do something to improve the tippiness, I'll have to sell the boat. Dave


  

Quote Ed Harris in the movie - Apollo 13 "Gentlemen, failure is not an option". 


Cajun,
You have an echo. ;D ;D ;D


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## GeorgiaSkiff

> Do you have a Gheenoe Classic or a Riverhawk?


Cajun - you don't want to go there. I've been in both recently. No need to get this going again.

Dave - Take the offer on the $1000 and check your PM.


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## Gator87

If your Classic is too tippy, I will trade you my Hi-sider.  

Scott


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## Guest

> If your Classic is too tippy, I will trade you my Hi-sider.
> 
> Scott


Yeah right!  U wouldnt trade your awesome highsider for anything! ;D





*Quote from DaveInGA on 10/24/07 at 21:40:30:


I'm considering putting in those "false floors"  *

Start here.  Pugar put a flat floor in my NMZ - best thing I could have ever done. 

I'm glad to hear that about put a flat floor on a NMZ, that's what I'm planning to do.


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## Guest

> Do you have a Gheenoe Classic or a Riverhawk?
> 
> 
> 
> Cajun - you don't want to go there. I've been in both recently. No need to get this going again.
Click to expand...

Why not. [smiley=chill-pill.gif]

You state you have been on "both recently". How much time did you spend on them? 1 hour? 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year?



> Dave - Take the offer on the $1000 and check your PM.


Why the PM and not on the forum? [smiley=1-mmm.gif]

This forum allows us to talk about different boats for the benefit of others. While the Gheenoe army has a bunch of clowns that seem to intimidate you, they are actually a decent group of guys with a lot of knowledge that might be able to help this person given the chance.

Might just be me, but telling someone to sell before he has had a chance to work out a problem and publicly displaying to check his PM IMHO seems to undermine this forum.

You can't tell me that there is a huge difference between the River Hawk and the Gheenoe for stability given the equivalent boat. 

My suggestion for a flat floor will help for both the River Hawks I've seen or a Gheenoe. For less than $20.00, he can cut some plywood and temporarily glue it down to see if it will accommodate his wife. 

Are we talking a bout a classic? My NMZ feels as stable as my classic did with the false floor because I walk the center anyway. You have to remember I whitewater paddle and I'm more unstable than any boat could ever be. ;D ;D ;D

But as always, it's just my .0000000002 sense.


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## DaveInGA

You know, when I posted this, I was hoping to get a real solution, like a link to a set of reasonably priced, easy to install stabilizer pontoons or "install a deck." Instead, I get tons of "get used to it" by the Gheenoe Army and "what kind of boat do you own?"

1. "Get used to it" isn't an option. My wife is 47 and has had a badly broken ankle at one time that required a steel plate and screws. I'm a year older and have bad knees from being in the military service along with weighing 270 or so. 

And no, we're NOT jumping around goofing off in the boat. We're moving around with our hands on the sides. I just wanted to be able to move around, bait hooks, mess with coolers/live wells, without feeling like I'm about to be dumped overboard.

2. It shouldn't make any difference what brand of boat I have. After all, I've read over and over in many recent posts on this forum that a Riverhawk is "nothing more than a copy of a Gheenoe." When I originally posted on this forum, I was advised to post asking for questions related to the Gheenoe Classic, because it was essentially the same boat. Every recent post talking with GeorgiaSkiff indicated the Riverhawk B-52 was simply a copy of the Gheenoe Classic. Either it is or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. On a side note, as far as build quality, this boat is darn well made and isn't at all a crappy copy. It may be "tippy" for me, but if I was 20 years old and weighing about 170, I'd be real happy with it.

For the couple of guys that posted about adding the decks, do they actually add anything related to stability or does leveling out the floor simply made it easier to walk vs. the non-level floor I have now? Btw, thanks for actually trying to help me.

Right now, the Gheenoe Army is reminding me of the Dillon Army over on the reloading forums. A Dillon owner with a genuine problem is shouted down, rather than helped and it's assumed the owner is the problem, rather than the equipment, because there cannot ever be a problem with a Dillon. Is that the way the Gheenoe Army wants to represent Gheenoes, like the Dillon owners? Because if it is, then a Gheenoe will NEVER be a brand I'll buy.

Based on the above responses, right now I think the best solution is to sell this boat and get a Riverhawk B-60. They're definitely stable and have lots of room.
Dave


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## Guest

there u go.....get a Riverhawk B-60 is good way to go. IMHO, more stable than a classic.....good luck.

BTW, make sure u get a false floor too.


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## DaveInGA

captnron,

How much from a percentage standpoint would you say the "false floors" helped you related to stability in your boat? If the increase is enough, it may be a good solution for me, as I don't like the non-level floor I have now.

If it's a huge increase, it's worth doing. If a small one, then I'll probably have to buy the B-60.

Dave


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## Guest

I personally think it's a huge difference, so much, I was willing to sacrifice the weight for my NMZ.

Here's the deal. You have a boat and you seem to be relatively new to the microskiff thing. If we can get you taken care of with this boat for now, when you are ready to "upgrade" you will have a much better idea of how you want your boat built for the long haul. 

Does RH do custom mods? :-/


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## Guest

> ...adding the decks, do they actually add anything related to stability or does leveling out the floor simply made it easier to walk vs. the non-level floor I have now? ..


I'm not discounting the rest of your post as all your points are valid IMHO but responding to this one is the only one IMHO that may help you. 

I posted this somewhere else but essentially by adding the false floor it forces you to walk the center of the boat and you are not planting your feet at an angle which pushes the boat away from the center line. I wanted the false floor just because my calves get tired of standing with my feet angled outward on the un-level floor. The stability thing was a pleasant surprise. I will never again own one of these boats without the flat floor.

Try cutting a strip of plywood (or a 1x) that will lay between the recesses in you floor and try it. You might be surprised. If it works, you bought yourself some time. If not, demo the wider boat whether its a RH or a Gheenoe LT and make sure it's going to work for you, but get a flat floor - you won't be sorry.


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## DaveInGA

> ...adding the decks, do they actually add anything related to stability or does leveling out the floor simply made it easier to walk vs. the non-level floor I have now? ..
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not discounting the rest of your post as all your points are valid IMHO but responding to this one is the only one IMHO that may help you.
> 
> Works for me, I'm all about solving the problem, not to interested in boat brands.
> 
> I posted this somewhere else but essentially by adding the false floor it forces you to walk the center of the boat and you are not planting your feet at an angle which pushes the boat away from the center line. I wanted the false floor just because my calves get tired of standing with my feet angled outward on the un-level floor. The stability thing was a pleasant surprise. I will never again own one of these boats without the flat floor.
> 
> Makes sense and fairly easy for me to implement. I own a tablesaw and have lotsa woodworking skills. I can cut out the 1/2" flooring I need, fiberglass it and install it. Does 1/2" plywood need the glass mat as well?
> 
> Try cutting a strip of plywood (or a 1x) that will lay between the recesses in you floor and try it. You might be surprised. If it works, you bought yourself some time. If not, demo the wider boat whether its a RH or a Gheenoe LT and make sure it's going to work for you, but get a flat floor - you won't be sorry.
> 
> Right now, buying myself time is what I'm wanting to do. I don't have the time due to schoolwork to search for a new boat nor the cash to spend just yet, though the fully decked out B-60's will probably be what I buy long term. It fits my overall requirements better. I like the ability to run shallow, since I'll be fishing rivers and these lakes can get shallow in drought conditions, but I need stability and want more room overall than the narrows skiffs provide. The B-60 is a good compromise I'm thinking. They are willing to customize for you.
Click to expand...

Gotta get back to studying, even though today is a day off. Microbiogy and Anatomy and Physiology II at the same time makes for a lot of information to absorb.

Thank you for the help,

Dave


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## Guest

If you have some scrap, try the floor first before you spend the time and effort to glass. If it works for you, I would use 1/4" maybe luan (spl?) to keep the weight down and glass the bottom before glassing over and to the floor. PVC can be used as a spacer/support/drain in the keel.


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## GeorgiaSkiff

Hey - Did Dave say a B-60? That's a River Hawk isn't it? Just having some fun guys - Dave did some homework too and saw the same thing a few others have found. The new River Hawks are nice boats - and it all started with the new owner wanting to build a nice boat. One more little plug - the front and rear decks on the Kingfisher are huge - and you still have a ton of open floor space. Think of this - 24" wide large center console and still has 15" on each side at the rails - 18" on the floor! You got to love that -


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## CAJUN

I wasn't trying to start conflict of Gheenoe vs Riverhawk, just wanted to be sure which boat Dave actually had incase he wanted to sell it.  Reading his previous posts I wasn't sure which boat he had because he had talked about buying a Riverhawk because Gheenoes aren't sold near where he lives.  I'm looking for a deal on a classic and trailer.  

As for as adding a false floor I believe it would possibly add a feeling of being less tippy and allow more ease of movement, but not sure since I don't have either a Gheenoe or Riverhawk.


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## GeorgiaSkiff

I understand - both are nice boats. As a few have said on the board and on PM - it's whatever you like and fits your needs.


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## GeorgiaSkiff

Whoops - hit the button twice.


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## Un-shore

WARNING! Gheenoe army is on stand down as a courtesy to the issue at hand, but we are ready and alert should this thread derail! Sorry, but I have to go here too,                                                      







,   [smiley=1-lmao.gif]Thanks in advance Tom for the use. In all seriousness, Stability is a state of mind and body when it comes to a microskiff and acheiving it is an intricate part of the sport. I dropped our 13' Gheenoe in our swimming pool and let the family put it to the test. Tried tipping it, climbing in and out of it, and also pulled the plug and swamped it. No motor of course. You will stretch the limits of your boat the more you use it and your body will learn what it needs to do and you will find yourself very comfortable with it soon. Flat floor a must for standing as I'm sure you have already surmised. My $.02


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## Un-shore

> You know, when I posted this, I was hoping to get a real solution, like a link to a set of reasonably priced, easy to install stabilizer pontoons or "install a deck."  Instead, I get tons of "get used to it" by the Gheenoe Army and "what kind of boat do you own?"
> 
> 1.  "Get used to it" isn't an option.  My wife is 47 and has had a badly broken ankle at one time that required a steel plate and screws.  I'm a year older and have bad knees from being in the military service along with weighing 270 or so.
> 
> And no, we're NOT jumping around goofing off in the boat.   We're moving around with our hands on the sides.  I just wanted to be able to move around, bait hooks, mess with coolers/live wells, without feeling like I'm about to be dumped overboard.
> 
> 2.  It shouldn't make any difference what brand of boat I have.  After all, I've read over and over in many recent posts on this forum that a Riverhawk is "nothing more than a copy of a Gheenoe."  When I originally posted on this forum, I was advised to post asking for questions related to the Gheenoe Classic, because it was essentially the same boat.  Every recent post talking with GeorgiaSkiff indicated the Riverhawk B-52 was simply a copy of the Gheenoe Classic.  Either it is or it isn't.  You can't have it both ways.    On a side note, as far as build quality, this boat is darn well made and isn't at all a crappy copy.  It may be "tippy" for me, but if I was 20 years old and weighing about 170, I'd be real happy with it.
> 
> For the couple of guys that posted about adding the decks, do they actually add anything related to stability or does leveling out the floor simply made it easier to walk vs. the non-level floor I have now?  Btw, thanks for actually trying to help me.
> 
> Right now, the Gheenoe Army is reminding me of the Dillon Army over on the reloading forums.  A Dillon owner with a genuine problem is shouted down, rather than helped and it's assumed the owner is the problem, rather than the equipment, because there cannot ever be a problem with a Dillon.  Is that the way the Gheenoe Army wants to represent Gheenoes, like the Dillon owners?  Because if it is, then a Gheenoe will NEVER be a brand I'll buy.
> 
> Based on the above responses, right now I think the best solution is to sell this boat and get a Riverhawk B-60.  They're definitely stable and have lots of room.
> Dave


Dave, 
My previous post was before I read this post by you earlier. I'm at work and wanted to respond quickly between tasks. I apologize in advance if I may have offended you with my joking and the picture. I also did not realize that you "getting used" to your boat was not an option. With that said, there is not any quick fix that I know of for your dilemma. Considering all your issues you obviously would be better off with a V-hull type boat or jon boat depending on your fishing environment. I would also like to say in defense of all of us, we all joke around and play off each other. That is the nature of this and many forums. I am fairly new here and feel that I overstep my bounds sometimes, but I don't think anybody cares one way or another. Feel assured that yours and anybody elses problems are eventually addressed and most of us are having fun along with it. You should have let us know of all your concerns in your first post and we would have known up front how to handle it. If you have any preconceived notions about how you will be treated here, leave them at the door. Oh, and just one more thing...                                                                                                                                                                                  GHEENOES RULE!!!! [smiley=supercool.gif]


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## GeorgiaSkiff

Dave knows what he is looking for out of his boat. For all on here that state that the flat floor gives you a sense of more stability because you tend to stay in the middle of the boat is true, but a step to one side or the other will still give him the "tippy" feeling. I think the words were said best on a manufacturers website when it stated the "jello-under-foot" feeling. I want to make sure I understand some of the posts on here about stability.

Are some of you saying that adding a flat floor and decks will help solve the "tippy" feeling? If so - come on guys - we all know that it's not the answer unless he and his wife remain in the middle of the boat. Dave could spend his money on doing this or save that money and put it towards the real solution in the future, a boat with more beam. 

Now don't get me wrong and please don't get all flustered - a Classic, LT15, or LT25 - or even Super 16 might be fine for many - but a boat with a wider beam is his answer and I think he's already figured that out. Contact any boat builder and they will tell you the same thing - beam is king for stability...especially with the outrigger theory hull of a Gheenoe, River Hawk, and Peenoe. Here's some info that I got from the owner of Peenoe. They utilize a 5" flat outrigger area on their boats to "help" with more stability. 

As I have stated on this board (and caught more crap than a toilet about it) - the LT25 was a stable boat - but it was not as stable as another boat with a 6" wider beam and remained much wider from the middle of the boat to the nose - a good 10" - 12" wider front deck. This was my opinion and I was in both boats and was forming my own opinion. Each of you might have a different opinion. 

Dave - you have probably already seen this - but if you will go to the River Hawk website and click on the "Help a Friend" link on the left - you will get a real good look at the beam and room in the B-60. Also - main page of this webiste - you will see a good photo of the LT25 and it's beam - then you can do your own comparisons.


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## Un-shore

> Dave knows what he is looking for out of his boat.  For all on here that state that the flat floor gives you a sense of more stability because you tend to stay in the middle of the boat is true, but a step to one side or the other will still give him the "tippy" feeling.  I think the words were said best on a manufacturers website when it stated the "jello-under-foot" feeling.  I want to make sure I understand some of the posts on here about stability.
> 
> Are some of you saying that adding a flat floor and decks will help solve the "tippy" feeling?  If so - come on guys - we all know that it's not the answer unless he and his wife remain in the middle of the boat.  Dave could spend his money on doing this or save that money and put it towards the real solution in the future, a boat with more beam.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong and please don't get all flustered - a Classic, LT15, or LT25 - or even Super 16 might be fine for many - but a boat with a wider beam is his answer and I think he's already figured that out.  Contact any boat builder and they will tell you the same thing - beam is king for stability...especially with the outrigger theory hull of a Gheenoe, River Hawk, and Peenoe.  Here's some info that I got from the owner of Peenoe.  They utilize a 5" flat outrigger area on their boats to "help" with more stability.
> 
> As I have stated on this board (and caught more crap than a toilet about it) - the LT25 was a stable boat - but it was not as stable as another boat with a 6" wider beam and remained much wider from the middle of the boat to the nose - a good 10" - 12" wider front deck.  This was my opinion and I was in both boats and was forming my own opinion.  Each of you might have a different opinion.
> 
> Dave - you have probably already seen this - but if you will go to the River Hawk website and click on the "Help a Friend" link on the left - you will get a real good look at the beam and room in the B-60.  Also - main page of this webiste - you will see a good photo of the LT25 and it's beam - then you can do your own comparisons.


Let me be so bold as to say that all "microskiffs" are going to be "tippy" that is the nature of the beast. Yes, please go to the wider beam regardless of the manufacturer. That is the only way to solve the "tippy" problem. I suspect that he his asking how to "fix" his current boat as with many buying a new boat is not an option. The flat floor is one way to help alleviate some of the issues with tippiness. Yes, you must sit in the middle of the boat if you don't want the boat to tip to one side. A 60" riverhawk or any other 60" beam boat will still tip if you step to the edge. My 19 CC tips if you step to one side. A microskiff is a microskiff is a microskiff, they are all tippy! Aside from mounting outriggers, that some canoe makers do sell, you could stabilize your current micro is to glass additional foam outriggers to the outside of the hull. Depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it Dave.


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## brew1891

DaveinGA

The only temporary solution is to try the false floors as pointed out by captnron or to add some of the canoe style pontoons that you could lower when fishing.

If you and your wife are having problems with the gheenoe classic I'm not sure the Gheenoe LT25 or the Kingfisher B60 is really going to be the holy grail to end all tippiness for you. They certainly will be better...but will either of them really solve your dillema? It really sounds like you need to look at a non-microskiff type boat with a much wider beam in the future when you have the time and money. 

good luck


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## litlblusrn4bigred

un-shore and brew 1891, VERY well said!! 

[smiley=supercool.gif]gheenoe's rule!!!


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## LoneRanger

30-40% increase in "assumed" stability.



it should be one of the top 3 mods to any gheenoe/ riverhawk.



L.R.


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## Guest

> DaveinGA
> 
> The only temporary solution is to try the false floors as pointed out by captnron or to add some of the canoe style pontoons that you could lower when fishing
> 
> If you and your wife are having problems with the gheenoe classic I'm not sure the Gheenoe LT25 or the Kingfisher B60 is really going to be the holy grail to end all tippiness for you. They certainly will be better...but will either of them really solve your dillema? It really sounds like you need to look at a non-microskiff type boat with a much wider beam in the future when you have the time and money.
> 
> good luck


Thanks Brew and Un-shore,
This is the way I see it. 

Ta hell with trying to help the guy.  OK, here goes. Whip out 20K and buy a Lostman - bet you guys never expected me to say that. ;D ;D I mean since GS is dead set on this guy buying a new boat before he tests some options that may help for less than 20 bucks, then buy all means, buy a new boat but make sure you test "the Barge" first. ECC's link is on the home page. Trust me, if you want stability, that's where you will find it.  GS seems to think you need a "bigger" RH and that may not be the case - it may also seem to tippy to you.

Dave,
If you have any more questions, please post here. If you want to try these boats side by side, just let me know. I'm sure I could make it happen, including the Lostman. My post was sincere.  I'm sure I could even find a RH around somewhere - might just take a little time. 

I still would like to know how many "microskiff's" GS has owned and for how long.


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## beavis

kayak outriggers 

http://www.easyriderkayaks.com/outriggers-k.htm

http://www.kayrak.ca/

http://www.castlecraft.com/stabilizers.htm

http://www.fyneboatkits.com/trolleyed/6/45/index.htm

http://www.tribalkayaks.com/

http://www.canoeoutriggers.com/

all this may help, but it sounds like you bought the wrong boat


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## Guest

> kayak outriggers
> 
> http://www.easyriderkayaks.com/outriggers-k.htm
> 
> http://www.kayrak.ca/
> 
> http://www.castlecraft.com/stabilizers.htm
> 
> http://www.fyneboatkits.com/trolleyed/6/45/index.htm
> 
> http://www.tribalkayaks.com/
> 
> http://www.canoeoutriggers.com/
> 
> all this may help, but it sounds like you bought the wrong boat



Thanks RJ,

I saw these at my local shop and thought they were pretty cool.

http://www.scottypaddlesports.com/pages/stabilizer.html

They weren't cheap, but still a lot less than buying a new boat.


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## DaveInGA

Un-Shore,

I wouldn't laugh too much at the native fisherman. He's probably built his own boat, with his own outrigger with tools he's made himself, all out of materials he picked up in his local area. With zero help off of the internet. That's one heckuva lot better than most every single man on this board could do from scratch in a primitive area. 

Secondly, I can't prove how good a fisherman he is, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet on his bringing home fish over anyone posting on this board or any other internet board. Guy's who have to feed themselves from the fish they catch beat the sport fisherman every single time that I've seen the two compete.

I do thank you for posting though, super cool pic.

Long Ranger,

Thank for the percentage of improvement post. I'm thinking that's enough improvement to solve my problem and that adding the false decks should solve my current problem.

Beavis,

Thanks for the outrigger links. I'll look into them and try to find an affordable one the right size for this boat. If I can find the right price point, those might be worth it.

Regards,

Dave


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## Guest

> Un-Shore,
> 
> I wouldn't laugh too much at the native fisherman. He's probably built his own boat, with his own outrigger with tools he's made himself, all out of materials he picked up in his local area. With zero help off of the internet. That's one heckuva lot better than most every single man on this board could do from scratch in a primitive area.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave


Careful, don't forget about this guy. In his book he tells you to "practice on a warm day" ;D ;D ;D Plans for the skiff are at the back of the book. 









[smiley=1-beer.gif]


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## GeorgiaSkiff

CaptnRon - None! But have owned 18 bass boats including Allison Crafts, Norris Crafts, and Bullets - along with Rangers, Hydra-Sports, Champions, and presently a Stratos. All boats with engines ranging from stock 150's to Mercury's 2.4 EFI. Now if you know anything about boats, construction, and performance boating - you will agree that I've been in some well built - stable - and extremely performance minded machines. 

The Allison was an very light and all composite - performance boat - the XB-2002. In my 27 years of performance boating - I've learned a thing or two about construction, stability, and performance. Present boat is a 68-72 mph Stratos and my new Micro Skiff will also be a boat with quality construction, set up for top performance (which is not limited to just running but fishability too). This will include proper set up and weight distribution. Feel free to contact Darris Allison to help with setting up your micro properly - or any other boat you might run. Thus - the questions not long ago about engine weight on the back of the micro skiffs. You know - is a 160# 4-stroke worth the extra weight - when a 18-20 weighs in 40-50 pounds lighter. Give Darris a call - if he's out - try contacting Mac Crumbly Jr. at Norris Craft for information on performance boating and boat building. 

Let me see if I understand this - not owning or Micro Skiff limits ones ability to know boating - and or more important, performance boating. I'm learning more and more about micro skiffs, but for my use - and DaveinGa's by the way it sounds, I'm not sure will be using it in 5" of water!

Stability in a boat is all about hull design and weight distribution - which includes beam, LOA, construction, and materials. As a matter of fact, and if Bob at River Hawk ever reads this mess and will chime in here - 90% of our conversations on my micro has been about construction, weight distribution, weight, and layout - in order to get the best overall performance - which includes stability. 

Now that I know the basics boat building and physics of boat hull design - and performance are different in smaller boats - I can just say anything I want on here and expect people to swallow it at face value without any worry of BS information - which flows quite often on here. 

By the way - my micro is a 2nd boat - I just don't want a bath tub. Check with Kevin at ECC or Pugar at CG - ask them if any of this makes sense. Then take a ride in a 85 mph Allison, Norris, or Bullet - and you will fully understand true overall performance - both while under power or while fishing. I've answered a mans question honestly and tried to help - has everyone on here??? Boy - folks really get pissed on here when a Gheenoe is questioned!


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## Guest

> CaptnRon - None! But have owned 18 bass boats including Allison Crafts, Norris Crafts, and Bullets - along with Rangers, Hydra-Sports, Champions, and presently a Stratos. All boats with engines ranging from stock 150's to Mercury's 2.4 EFI. Now if you know anything about boats, construction, and performance boating - you will agree that I've been in some well built - stable - and extremely performance minded machines.


I don't know anything about boats but my dad can beat up your dad.



> T Feel free to contact Darris Allison to help with setting up your micro properly - or any other boat you might run. Thus - the questions not long ago about engine weight on the back of the micro skiffs. You know - is a 160# 4-stroke worth the extra weight - when a 18-20 weighs in 40-50 pounds lighter. Give Darris a call - if he's out - try contacting Mac Crumbly Jr. at Norris Craft for information on performance boating and boat building.


I don't have problems with my boats. You guys do. 



> Let me see if I understand this - not owning or Micro Skiff limits ones ability to know boating - and or more important, performance boating. I'm learning more and more about micro skiffs, but for my use - and DaveinGa's by the way it sounds, I'm not sure will be using it in 5" of water!


You seem to have it under control - no need to explain. 

As for Dave and being unsure if he needs to go in 5" of water - Did you ask?



> Stability in a boat is all about hull design and weight distribution - which includes beam, LOA, construction, and materials. As a matter of fact, and if Bob at River Hawk ever reads this mess and will chime in here - 90% of our conversations on my micro has been about construction, weight distribution, weight, and layout - in order to get the best overall performance - which includes stability.


Duh. But you forgot to include "compromise". Or does that not exist in your vast knowledge and quiver of boats? I'm going out on a limb here but have to ask. Why have you had so many boats? I mean a man with you self proclaimed knowledge of construction and performance couldn't get it right in say two boats? 



> Now that I know the basics boat building and physics of boat hull design - and performance are different in smaller boats - I can just say anything I want on here and expect people to swallow it at face value without any worry of BS information - which flows quite often on here.


Sorry we weren't of more help to you.



> By the way - my micro is a 2nd boat - I just don't want a bath tub. Check with Kevin at ECC or Pugar at CG - ask them if any of this makes sense. Then take a ride in a 85 mph Allison, Norris, or Bullet - and you will fully understand true overall performance - both while under power or while fishing. I've answered a mans question honestly and tried to help - has everyone on here??? Boy - folks really get pissed on here when a Gheenoe is questioned!


I don't care about bhass botes. : They draft way to much for me.

I've owned a Gladesmen and fished a Lostman. I was up till 3 AM last night talking to Pugar. Did I pass?

I own an NMZ by choice. My other boat is a Glades Skiff by choice. My experience with a larger boats and my work at Sea Tow provides little useful information on this forum except for safety.

For the record, we have been talking about Dave's Riverhawk and trying to help him resolve his problem. Your the one who keeps dragging Gheenoe into the mix. Whatever. :

This thread has grown tiresome but I hope we were at least able to help Dave and anyone else with a similar issue by providing him with the information to make an intelligent decision.

Summary.

CR - "Test the boat for at least a day in conditions you will use it before your buy".

GS - "Buy a Riverhawk"

GA - "Buy a Gheenoe"

EZPZ


BTW - 6 pages


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## iMacattack

Whatever you buy... make sure it has a tunnel... ;D


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## Guest

GAskiff and Dave in GA,

*GET ONE OF MY BOAT I GOT.....U WONT COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS!  NOMORE TIPPY BOAT FOR U*


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## GeorgiaSkiff

;D I was getting a boat a year for many years - then got started into the high performance boats. After hitting 42 and two younger kids (21, 14, and 10) - 70+ in a boat wasn't cutting it with the wife! 

I'm just curious on something now Captn - do you feel two boats set up the same - but one is 7" wider at the waterline with an additional 5" of width at the transom - are going to have identical stability - or do you feel one will probably be more stable than than the other? I ask because a company recently came out with a new boat that is longer, wider, and has a much wider transom - and everyone is saying how much more stable it is and how much better it rides. I think you know the company and it's boats well. 

Another boat company I spoke with in my search for a micro skiff stated that they have a new boat coming out soon that will have the same hull design and construction, but will have a wider beam and transom to increase stability. Do they have a clue what they are talking about or is this just BS? 

If nothing else - we do have some good conversation on the board and some day - maybe you can put me on a redfish and I can put you on a spotted bass. Unless you can put me on a Tarpon - then I'll put you on a striper.


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## Un-shore

*Skeeters Rock!* [smiley=1-thumbsup1.gif]


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## Guest

> ;D
> I'm just curious on something now Captn - do you feel two boats set up the same - but one is 7" wider at the waterline with an additional 5" of width at the transom - are going to have identical stability - or do you feel one will probably be more stable than than the other? I ask because a company recently came out with a new boat that is longer, wider, and has a much wider transom - and everyone is saying how much more stable it is and how much better it rides. I think you know the company and it's boats well.


Still have to consider rocker and "v" 

Given a boat with the same shape bottom and increase the width, you obviously know the answer, but change rocker and "v" you change everything  Also adding width to the same shape bottom will normally hurt your ride in rough water which is why I chose a Grady 273 Chase over the 283.  On the West Coast I got soaked and beat my brains in - would have been worse with the 283 but 6 foot seas always suck. 

It's always a compromise which is really the point of this thread. For every good point, I can find a bad and vice versa. You have to decide how your going to use your boat 80% of the time and purchase accordingly.


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## Guest

> Whatever you buy... make sure it has a tunnel... ;D


I'm not sure how this is going to help him"









And this is what I think of your suggestion:









[smiley=no_derail.png]









[smiley=1-whoops1.gif]


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## swampfox

TOO MUCH HARDWARE!! if want more stability you need more beam period. if you start adding all that crap off the side of you boat you are getting way to complicated wait till the red of your life runs under the erectorset pontoons and breaks you off  i had one of the first b-60s and added front & rear decks and polling platform (this was only possible with the addition of the rear deck and yes it did remind me of my granma's walker) this was mid 90s before the factory were putting decks on-not sure if custom ghenoes were doing it either. i had owned 2 noes prior to the b-60 and it was more stable simply because it was wider and took the wife out all the time with never any concerns. i actually hooked into the biggest red of my life(40lbs?) in this boat that swam under the boat in 2.5 ft of water on flood tide in the spartina dropped a gold spoon from the platform litterally below my feet he turned and bit-but i lost it trying to juggle my push pole set the hook and adjust the drag-shi* :'(. the b-60 is just like a noe only bigger. last time i stopped in at custom noe he was talking about possibly making a wider version may want to to check with them.


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## Capt._Frank

Dave, If your wife is afraid of the boat now she will never be happy with it. A flat floor will help.
A third seat on the middle seat of the Gheenoe for your wife will also help. She can move to the front seat faceing aft when you need to get to the bate well. I can relate to your problem. I am 71 6'4 240lb
retired Charter Boat Capt. From Clearwater Beach. I have a Classic my 3rd Gheenoe. Good Luck.


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## GeorgiaSkiff

Thank you Swampfox - so you too know how Beam works in a boat works.  

Gheenoe did introduce a new wider, longer, deeper boat - the LT25. It is about 10" longer than the RH but is 4" narrower and the LT is much narrower in the bow (front deck) of the boat. The Gheenoe seems to narrow down faster than the RH - which stays very wide all the way to the nose. I've been in both the Gheenoe LT25 and River Hawk Kingfisher - and both are very nice boats. I really like the extra room in the RH - bow to stern. Here's something that gives you a better feeling of how much room is in the RH - the large center console (which measures 23" wide) - the RH has some 15" on both sides of the CC at the rails - 18" on both sides on the floor. I'm sure one of the army will let us know how much room the LT has in the CC to the rail. I'm guessing (based on my test ride in the LT25) - it's is around 10". That's a ton of extra room and stability in a boat.


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## swampfox

go with the rh you will not be dissapointed! i know you may/will catch some grief from some of the guys here-all in good fun i'm sure. i loved mine caught lots of fish in it from reds in charleston to trout in the hooch and strippers in the etowah. from what i have heard of the new owner it is probbally better than the one i had(although i had o problems with it). i dont know what the motor rating is now but mine ran great with a 9.9 evinrude with 2 people and gear a 15 or 25 would haul ass. good luck and go get some fish


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## GeorgiaSkiff

Two guys I've contacted both have RH's - one is a Procaster and the other has a Kingfisher. One has a Yamaha F20 on it and the other has a Nissan F18. Both guys said the boats would fly - the 18 on the Kingfisher is in Florida and fishes the St. Johns. He said he was running 28-31 - great ride and great stability - fishes great. 

I'm looking forward to catching a striper out of a micro skiff - Bob, the RH owner, said he caught a big one out of his Kingfisher on a fly rod - said it was a thrill and more fun than his big Triton LTS Bay Boat. 

See you on the board -


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## tom_in_orl

Just got a chance to read the entire thread. [smiley=angry.gif] I am sorry I was not around this weekend or I would have cleaned it up. This off topic [smiley=bs.gif] would have been split off or probably worse. [smiley=angry4.gif] *The man wants advise on HIS BOAT not advise on a different boat.* [smiley=headshake.gif] 

Here is my suggestion. Try adding one or two grab bars. They make a huge difference when moving around in the boat. If you are running a tiller then one at the back of the center box would be a nice addition. It would allow you to mount a couple of controls or a GPS in a convenient spot. Your wife may find it more comfortable if you are more stable when moving around. You can also add a 2nd one to the back of the front seat. If you add short tubes then you could make them removable. 

You could do this in addition to the false floor but I think it would be less expensive to experiment with the grab bar(s) first.


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## GeorgiaSkiff

Yeah - where have you been big Tom? We missed our referee! ;D


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## Tom_C

Both my wife and I are 49 and both have back problems. Adding a false floor is the best thing to do. It can be done for less than $50 and in less than 4 hours. My floors consist of 1/2" light weight PVC board with foam mat covering. I used industrial Velcro so that I can remove it to clean under it.


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## Tom_C

> We're moving around with our hands on the sides.  I just wanted to be able to move around, bait hooks, mess with coolers/live wells, without feeling like I'm about to be dumped overboard.


IMO you are making it worst by having your hands on the side. Standup and keep your weight in the center you will be better off.


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## DaveInGA

tom in orl,

Could you post pics of the grab bars you're talking about? I'm not sure what you mean. Right now, I'm getting mental images of bars similar to those in bathtubs somehow mounted on the sides and I suspect that isn't what you're talking about.

Tom C,

That's a good solution for the price. Where (what store) did you get the materials and what sort of foam mat covering did you use - where did you get the foam mat covering? I think that would be a good inexpensive solution for me.

Regards,

Dave


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## tom_in_orl

This boat belonged to forum member skinnyreds. (He now has a Hells Bay Glades Skiff)





























This ECC Gladesmen belongs to forum member Beavis.


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## tom_in_orl

Another version of a grab bar. The big guy in the back owns this boat.


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## litlblusrn4bigred

i love his trailer. that is one sweet ride. looks famliar except mine doesnt have the grab bar.


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## JRH

Cool trailer. [smiley=cool2.gif]


Any particular reason he went with something unconventional? Seems overkill for a microskiff.


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## Un-shore

> Cool trailer.   [smiley=cool2.gif]
> 
> 
> Any particular reason he went with something unconventional?  Seems overkill for a microskiff.


One size fits all!


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## brew1891

> Cool trailer.   [smiley=cool2.gif]
> 
> 
> Any particular reason he went with something unconventional?  Seems overkill for a microskiff.


I think EATME said that the guy keeps the gheenoe on a lift and uses that trailer for other things such as ATVs when the gheenoe is not on it. Maybe EATME will chime in and give the correct reason.


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