# New engine from the Bahamas



## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

that sounds like a good idea until you hear that you won't have any warranty in the US....


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

lemaymiami said:


> that sounds like a good idea until you hear that you won't have any warranty in the US....


How wouldn’t you have any warranty in the US? If you live in the Bahamas and you took your boat to the keys on vacation and it blows up, you’re telling me they’re not going to warranty the engine. It’s a world wide company.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

I'd go there for a 3 cylinder 30hp if I had the cash. I don't care about the warranty. Those motors are well proven to be fantastic.


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

Does it make more power than a regular 30?


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

Got a 15hp from harbourside in Nassau 3 years ago. had it shipped to a friends house in the bahamas and he brought it back for me. And yes they do have warranty here and its perfectly legal. The law does not say you cant own a new 2 stroke motor, it says dealers cant sell a new 2 stroke motor. Big difference.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Don't need no stinking warranty with a 2 stroke!


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

Is there a fee to bring it into the US or depart from the Bahamas?


Alex Fernandez said:


> Got a 15hp from harbourside in Nassau 3 years ago. had it shipped to a friends house in the bahamas and he brought it back for me. And yes they do have warranty here and its perfectly legal. The law does not say you cant own a new 2 stroke motor, it says dealers cant sell a new 2 stroke motor. Big difference.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Travis Smith said:


> Does it make more power than a regular 30?


The 3 cylinder is beefy for it's hp class 25/30. It's like having a big block in your pickup truck. Tons of low end grunt to get heavy loads moving.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

No Bait / Lures Only said:


> Don't need no stinking warranty with a 2 stroke!


That’s what I’m stressin’! A 10 year old can figure out how to work on one.


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

Yea I really am not a fan of these newer engines.


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## NativeBone (Aug 16, 2017)

Just love the simplicity of the 2 stroke outboard. Reminds me of the older cars, gas and spark, little electronics.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

NativeBone said:


> Just love the simplicity of the 2 stroke outboard. Reminds me of the older cars, gas and spark, little electronics.


Old Chevy 350 comes to mind. Bulletproof and easy to wrench on.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

lets assume your on a friends boat in nassau and you decide to buy a brand spankin new yamaha 30 hp for your skiff. If you bring it back with your on your buddys boat you "should" declare any purchases you made and are bringing back with you. You get an automatic $800 carribean basin duty exemption but i think that applies to items that were actually made in the carribean basin, im not sure. Anyway, you get the idea. Alot of room for discretion in this situation


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)




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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

Take a cheap cruise and carry one back on the ship?


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

I wish!! 190 lbs engine over my shoulder! I’m sure that wouldn’t happen


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## Danny Moody (Jan 22, 2016)

Call Richard at Dolphin Brokerage in West Palm Beach, FL. Tell him Danny Moody sent you. He will help you out. 

Richard Kuepker
Dolphin Brokerage Intl of FL
Tel: 561-683-2064
[email protected]


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

For two strokes? Lol


I just got an email from a place in the Bahamas, 40 is 4000 and some change otd and 30 3 cylinder is 3000otd


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Somebody do this for us. I need a 2 stroke Yammy 60 and a jumbo pack of plastic straws...the bendy kind.


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

And while you’re at it maybe some 3D printed AR15


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## Jpscott1 (May 2, 2017)

I have spent a little bit of time looking into this over the years and I cannot figure out how to get a new Yamaha Enduro 2-Stroke in to the US. You cannot bring it back through normal channels because it does not meet EPA requirements. If you had a dingy on your sailboat and replaced your dingy outboard with a new yamaha 2-stroke and sailed home, you might be OK. If you put the same motor below deck- it might be considered a violation when you clear customs and dont declare it. I say all this to get to this point--- if someone knows how to get a new 2-stroke into the US- please let me know- as I would like to buy one and I have not been smart enough to figure it out!!!


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Jpscott1 said:


> I have spent a little bit of time looking into this over the years and I cannot figure out how to get a new Yamaha Enduro 2-Stroke in to the US. You cannot bring it back through normal channels because it does not meet EPA requirements. If you had a dingy on your sailboat and replaced your dingy outboard with a new yamaha 2-stroke and sailed home, you might be OK. If you put the same motor below deck- it might be considered a violation when you clear customs and dont declare it. I say all this to get to this point--- if someone knows how to get a new 2-stroke into the US- please let me know- as I would like to buy one and I have not been smart enough to figure it out!!!


Maybe remove the powerhead and lower unit and bring it back as "spare parts" to be reassembled later?


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Travis Smith said:


> For two strokes? Lol
> 
> 
> I just got an email from a place in the Bahamas, 40 is 4000 and some change otd and 30 3 cylinder is 3000otd


That's a good price for the 30hp! I managed to get 3500 out of my 1995 modified 30hp. It started as a 300 dollar parts motor. I didn't want to let it go, but everything is for sale for the right price.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

What would bother me the most is the ease that they can take your money and not send you anything in return. What are you going to do, take them to court? Where? Save a few dollars but run a lot of risks? No thank you! Almost sounds scamish, unless you physically go there and follow it back to the states. Then is the effort worth the savings? I don't think so. But that's just my opinion.

I'll take the US sold OB with the guaranteed warranty HERE! Pay for the convenience and peace of mind. Else, in the end, it may not be worth all the trouble and aggravation. Maybe for something small, like a reel or something, but not a big ticket item. I'd rather spend my time worrying if that fish will eat my fly or not, while you're tracking down your lost shipment on that gray market motor.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

I dealt with harbourside marine in nassau. Spoke to them a few times, they emailed me all the info i needed, i paid them with a credit card by phone on a monday and the engine was in great harbour by 4pm Wednesday. I would buy another in a heart beat. it was a very pleasant experience. Its not about saving a few bucks ( and you will) its about saving lots of wheight and gaining a few mph. Some people just cant think outside the box......


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Just ride over in the micro skiff like Flip Pallot and swap out motors.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Have they made significant advances in those motors? What is the advantage over taking an beat-down old 2 stroke, and completely rebuilding it, plus a new coat of paint? Maybe the cost of parts would end up being more than just getting the new one?


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I will have a 30 Hp "Sea Pro" Soon ...


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

You do it because it just feels good to bust open the new motor box and have little pieces of styrofoam fly out and cling to your shirt


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

noeettica said:


> I will have a 30 Hp "Sea Pro" Soon ...


Are you selling it or going to buy one?


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

In the Bahamas you can buy 2 stroke yahmas in Nassau, Spanish Wells my home town and up in the Abacos.
They are all distributed by the same company. they will all be priced very close. I feel warranty is not an issue as they will last about 5-8 years before issues if run hard. They will not cheat you over there. I know most all the dealers.
The best way is get a yacht to carry them over and you just go down and pick yours up off the deck after clearing in. Or go over in your Skiff with an your present engine and buy the new one and just run back with it in it’s box in the cockpit. In the rest of the Caribbean the mainstay engines are Yamaha Enduros 2 stroke. They last forever. 
Another way is to get one onboard a fishing boat that’s coming over tonthe states for supplies and fuel.
You can also buy one and get it shipped over on a freight boat. You only pay the freight as far as I know.


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## Mike C (Feb 27, 2017)

SomaliPirate said:


> Somebody do this for us. I need a 2 stroke Yammy 60 and a jumbo pack of plastic straws...the bendy kind.


Chicken Taco Loco has a box full of them. I'm pretty sure they're bendy...


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Code of Federal Regulations: Title 40 › Chapter I › Subchapter U › Part 1068 › Subpart B › Section 1068.101
1)Introduction into commerce. You may not sell, offer for sale, or introduce or deliver into commerce in the United States or import into the United States any new engine/equipmentafter emission standards take effect for the engine/equipment, unless it is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required label or tag. You also may not take any of the actions listed in the previous sentence with respect to any equipment containing an engine subject to this part's provisions unless the engine is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required engine label or tag. We may assess a civil penalty up to $44,539 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation.

It appears that sneaking in a new 2-stroke from the Bahamas could get mighty expensive.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

Vertigo said:


> Code of Federal Regulations: Title 40 › Chapter I › Subchapter U › Part 1068 › Subpart B › Section 1068.101
> 1)Introduction into commerce. You may not sell, offer for sale, or introduce or deliver into commerce in the United States or import into the United States any new engine/equipmentafter emission standards take effect for the engine/equipment, unless it is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required label or tag. You also may not take any of the actions listed in the previous sentence with respect to any equipment containing an engine subject to this part's provisions unless the engine is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required engine label or tag. We may assess a civil penalty up to $44,539 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation.
> 
> It appears that sneaking in a new 2-stroke from the Bahamas could get mighty expensive.


Dude you got it all wrong. "Introduction to commerce". Know what that means?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Vertigo said:


> Code of Federal Regulations: Title 40 › Chapter I › Subchapter U › Part 1068 › Subpart B › Section 1068.101
> 1)Introduction into commerce. You may not sell, offer for sale, or introduce or deliver into commerce in the United States or import into the United States any new engine/equipmentafter emission standards take effect for the engine/equipment, unless it is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required label or tag. You also may not take any of the actions listed in the previous sentence with respect to any equipment containing an engine subject to this part's provisions unless the engine is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required engine label or tag. We may assess a civil penalty up to $44,539 for each engine or piece of equipment in violation.
> 
> It appears that sneaking in a new 2-stroke from the Bahamas could get mighty expensive.


You’d shit a brick if you looked under the hood of my Excursion.


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## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

I’m not sure I’d be able to live with the guilt of smuggling an outboard over. I’d have to turn myself in if I made it!


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2018)

I think Vertigo was just sayin tread lightly fellas!


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

G & G Shipping will ship the motor back for you. Order it on a monday and they will have in miami on thursday. Yep its pretty simple, no smuggling required.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Boatbrains said:


> I think Vertigo was just sayin tread lightly fellas!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Alex Fernandez said:


> G & G Shipping will ship the motor back for you. Order it on a monday and they will have in miami on thursday. Yep its pretty simple, no smuggling required.


Yep that’s what a few guys I have spoken to said. I guess people will have to start a new thread crying about another topic.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Alex, wipe that smirk off your face and read carefully: "or import into the United States any new engine/equipment after emission standards take effect for the engine/equipment, unless it is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for its model year and has the required label or tag."

Don't get me wrong. I've owned more non-compliant *older* 2-strokes than I can count, and I'll probably own more in the future. Performance and reliability vs. cost can't be beat. But, I, for one, wouldn't risk the potential downside of bringing in a *new*, non-compliant motor.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

bryson said:


> Have they made significant advances in those motors? What is the advantage over taking an beat-down old 2 stroke, and completely rebuilding it, plus a new coat of paint? Maybe the cost of parts would end up being more than just getting the new one?


I can tell you have never owned a modded yamaha 2 stroke.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

SomaliPirate said:


>


My Man!


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

I can verify that a hydro tec modded Yamaha 2 stroke 90 is durable as my old engine was built in 1990 n no repairs n still hits rev limiter.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

No Bait / Lures Only said:


> I can tell you have never owned a modded yamaha 2 stroke.


Not sure I follow? I've actually got a decent bit of experience with a HydroTec modded 75 (I believe it's exactly the same as your modded 90).

I was just saying that if I were building a skiff and looking for power, I think I would avoid the hassle/risk of importing a motor and just rebuild an old 2 stroke Yamaha. I imagine you could have a rebuilt powerhead, and all other brand new components (gaskets, hoses, etc.) for around the same price or less, even after paint and everything. Just speculation though, I've never priced it out.

That is, unless there were some significant advances in the newer motors to make it worth the headache. I'm just not up to speed with how those motors are changing outside the US market.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Alex Fernandez said:


> I dealt with harbourside marine in nassau. Spoke to them a few times, they emailed me all the info i needed, i paid them with a credit card by phone on a monday and the engine was in great harbour by 4pm Wednesday. I would buy another in a heart beat. it was a very pleasant experience. Its not about saving a few bucks ( and you will) its about saving lots of wheight and gaining a few mph. Some people just cant think outside the box......


So you order a motor in the Bahamas and have it delivered to the Bahamas - what am I missing?

I can order a motor from Wyoming and have it delivered to Florida - same principle.

How did you get it from the Bahamas to the US?


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

DuckNut said:


> So you order a motor in the Bahamas and have it delivered to the Bahamas - what am I missing?
> 
> I can order a motor from Wyoming and have it delivered to Florida - same principle.
> 
> How did you get it from the Bahamas to the US?


On your boat, your friends boat, your plane or your friends plane, g&g shipping, some hungry sailor sailing to miami that wants to make a few bucks.... etc etc etc i guess its not for everyone but if you really want one its not extremely difficult to get.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

A certificate of origin is required for Texas registration of outboard motors and importing the non compliant engine is illegal. Why not just buy the new 2018 Yamaha F40 at 214 lbs. If you put a lot of hours on outboards the fuel savings will help offset the cost.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

so your saying that anyone who completes a pwd144 form to register an outboard motor in TX must provide a certificate of origin?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

sjrobin said:


> A certificate of origin is required for Texas registration of outboard motors and importing the non compliant engine is illegal. Why not just buy the new 2018 Yamaha F40 at 214 lbs. If you put a lot of hours on outboards the fuel savings will help offset the cost.


My Yamaha 70TLR’s are 225#. That’s crazy.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Alex Fernandez said:


> so your saying that anyone who completes a pwd144 form to register an outboard motor in TX must provide a certificate of origin?


First time it's titled, yes. Subsequent transfers you surrender the old title. For States that don't title motors it's probably easier.


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

I've always thought if I was building a new "spare no expense" HB Pro or Guide, it would be awfully tempting to bring them a new Bahamian Yamaha 90 2 Stroke to hang off it.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

There has been a lot of mis-information scattered throughout this thread. To make things perfectly clear:

It is illegal to import a non-compliant outboard into the U.S. Penalties can be severe.

Older design 2-stroke motors that can be purchased new in the Bahamas are non-compliant.

Texas state requirements have nothing to do with EPA or Federal regulations. Throwing them into this discussion is just more obfuscation.

No matter how you delude yourself that the risk of getting caught is low, the penalty if you do get caught is such that importing a non-compliant motor is just plain stupid to consider. Figure fines, legal fees and loss of the motor. Going the way things are today, you may even have your boat, car or home seized. 

Further, by the time you add the cost of purchase and transport, a non-compliant motor is probably more expensive than just having a similar old motor overhauled. If you want a warranty, and a smaller 2-stroke designed to run on the fuel we get today, just go buy an Etec. The Etec may be a few pounds more, but that warranty is pretty nice to have. I got a 7 year warranty when I bought my Etec 90 and it replaced a Yamaha 2-stroke 90. The only difference I noticed was that the Etec is a hell of a lot easier to start cold, burns about 30% less gas and runs a mile or two faster at WOT.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> There has been a lot of mis-information scattered throughout this thread. To make things perfectly clear:
> 
> It is illegal to import a non-compliant outboard into the U.S. Penalties can be severe.
> 
> ...


I'm 100% with you on the Etec and it will most likely be my next outboard. But there's always something satisfying about getting one over on The Man.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

Not to start a fight with anyone here, but i have and know of others who have brought over motors from the bahamas on cargo planes and cargo boats, aka freight companies. In all those cases the freight co has handles all the customs clearing logistics and there have been no fee or fines imposed. i dont think these succesful instances were a result of oversight.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

Vertigo you make a great point with the Etec.....


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

bryson said:


> Have they made significant advances in those motors? What is the advantage over taking an beat-down old 2 stroke, and completely rebuilding it, plus a new coat of paint? Maybe the cost of parts would end up being more than just getting the new one?


It's cheaper to buy them new vs fully restoring a parts motor. The power head for a 30hp yamaha is 1500 https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/6J8-W0090-42-1S?ref=563cd33e0b00799b6d69b97e78948ee4957e10ac and the lower unit is 1300 https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/6J8-45300-04-4D?ref=60a4e3327669bdf4d58993ff821b3713bbedbb01 You could buy a brand new motor for just a couple of hundred bucks more.


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## Boneheaded (Oct 4, 2017)

Why go to Bahamas when you've got Miami craigslist.
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/d/yamaha-25-hp-outboard-short/6646657302.html

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/bpo/d/yamaha-8hp-enduro-2-stroke/6629518668.html


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Who buys parts from boat.net? Shop around. A 30 hp 2-stroke Yamaha power head with 90 day warranty can be had from many sources for less than $500. A reconditioned lower unit can be found for around $700. Even Jasper reconditions Yamaha outboards.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Vertigo said:


> A 30 hp 2-stroke Yamaha power head with 90 day warranty can be had from many sources for less than $500.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Ahhh the bi-annual 2 stroke smuggling / buying thread, didn't realize it was that time again already. This is one of my favorites.

It's one of the only threads where we can get into an debate that covers all topics, what brand motor is best, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke environmental butt-hurtedness, buying a Japanese motor from a domestic business vs buying a Japanese motor offshore, tax patriotism vs skirting paying your fair share of tax for the govt to mis-manage. I'm still trying to figure a way to integrate tunnel vs non-tunnel hull debate into the mix, stand by.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

LowHydrogen said:


> Ahhh the bi-annual 2 stroke smuggling / buying thread, didn't realize it was that time again already. This is one of my favorites.
> 
> It's one of the only threads where we can get into an debate that covers all topics, what brand motor is best, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke environmental butt-hurtedness, buying a Japanese motor from a domestic business vs buying a Japanese motor offshore, tax patriotism vs skirting paying your fair share of tax for the govt to mis-manage. I'm still trying to figure a way to integrate tunnel vs non-tunnel hull debate into the mix, stand by.


You know damn good and well those Bahamian 2 smokes should only be bolted on a jackplate on a tunnel hull so the motor can be run high enough not to overheat when trenching through the red tide fish/turtle/manatee/whale shark melee...maybe Chittum can figure out how to keep the chum from getting sucked into the low water tunnel extension pickup and making it’s way to the thermostat causing it to hang open...


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Mission accomplished, I knew you were the man for the job!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

That's why I wil be keeping both my 2 strokes until I am too old to fish. Hopefully not anytime soon.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You know damn good and well those Bahamian 2 smokes should only be bolted on a jackplate on a tunnel hull so the motor can be run high enough not to overheat when trenching through the red tide fish/turtle/manatee/whale shark melee...maybe Chittum can figure out how to keep the chum from getting sucked into the low water tunnel extension pickup and making it’s way to the thermostat causing it to hang open...


Damnit man, you beat me to it!


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


>


 You can't even get a crankshaft for 500 bucks. They are pressed together and it's not cheap to get them pulled apart for inspection and bearing/seal replacement. This is the lower online price for a new crank https://www.boats.net/product/yamaha/6J8-11400-01-00?ref=30bc7aaf6b2124298efa907c445e06e2e2756fa5


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

For trade:
2007 Yamaha 2 stroke 160 hours, leaks nothing, runs flawlessly and was not smuggled from a foreign country. Will trade for 26 Pathfinder bay, 25 25 Contender Bay, newer Ford-f150 king ranch, sea plane, or trust fund.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Not mine but I know a guy that knows a guy that will trade his 2006 Yamaha 2 stroke (runs perfect) for a 2018 F40.


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## wardicus (Jun 3, 2013)

Who 


Alex Fernandez said:


> G & G Shipping will ship the motor back for you. Order it on a monday and they will have in miami on thursday. Yep its pretty simple, no smuggling required.


 who is g and g shipping out of where ? I need a new motor


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## Fishtex (May 10, 2014)

I’m just going to throw this out there to stir shit up but we have all been wound up about water quality issues, yet we have a whole crew completely ok with circumventing laws regarding air quality to get cheap outboards. 

I used to work in a lab and tested and did development on various fuels and power systems. We were an EPA certified facility that performed FTP procedures for the EPA, etc.

I don’t think any of you have any idea of how dirty 2 strokes are, yet you push this idea to get polluting outboards and then get wound up about the shitstorm that that has been going on for years regarding our water.....WTF? It’s all related......geeeeeeez

Wake up......


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## wardicus (Jun 3, 2013)

Perhaps I / we don’t know how dirty 2stokes may be . I’d be willing to listen ,But your post didn’t shed any light on it either . You tested some stuff somewhere that’s what I read .


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

wardicus: Why don't you try typing G&G shipping into the search window in your browser?

When you do, you will discover that their address and phone number pop right up. Order a motor and let us know how it works out for you.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Vertigo why are you so concerned about this that you have to respond to every other comment?


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Devrep, why are you so concerned about what interests me?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Ironically the government tells us what we can and can't do if they would practice what they preach we probably wouldn't be in this mess. F the government nothing but a bunch of crooks.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

For Fishtex... Yes those old
carved 2 strokes badly pollute... but E-Tex’s actually burn cleaner than any brand new 4 strokes on the market today... True story.


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## Fishtex (May 10, 2014)

wardicus said:


> Perhaps I / we don’t know how dirty 2stokes may be . I’d be willing to listen ,But your post didn’t shed any light on it either . You tested some stuff somewhere that’s what I read .


Typical 2 stroke, say 60 hp puts out roughly the same amount of pollution as driving your car 5000 miles. A lawnmower operating for an hour puts out as much pollution as driving from Austin to Dallas. Etecs excluded in this discussion as they are using modern advanced tech to get their emissions to current acceptable levels. 

Too much un-burned hydrocarbons and almost 30% of the gas and oil goes into the water. 4 strokes are in the range of 90% cleaner, there will be variances based on wear, state of tune, etc. 

2 stroke motorcycles were phased out in the US in the 80’s, (except for off road only bikes) due to the high levels of pollution. 

Go to the third world and breathe that air in a crowded downtown like Jakarta, it’s a mess. I remember being in Los Angeles when I was a kid in the early 70’s, air quality was bad, really bad. If regulations hadn’t been put into place you couldn’t live there today. 

In Houston down by the ship channel, I’ve seen new cars unloaded off ships and in a few days the paint was ruined by industrial fallout. Pits in the paint, right down to bare metal. I viewed them under magnification but it was easily visible to the naked eye.

Obviously we have choices, but there are consequences. Didn’t mean to get on my soap box about this but I assumed everyone by now understood why we can’t buy them here anymore. The pollution is real. Rant over.


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## marshrat (Feb 22, 2018)

Fishtex said:


> I’m just going to throw this out there to stir shit up but we have all been wound up about water quality issues, yet we have a whole crew completely ok with circumventing laws regarding air quality to get cheap outboards.
> 
> I used to work in a lab and tested and did development on various fuels and power systems. We were an EPA certified facility that performed FTP procedures for the EPA, etc.
> 
> ...


I just think that consumers should have the choice of whether or not to buy a carbureted 2-stroke motor. Otherwise, clunky and inefficient government agencies and unelected officials issue dictates from on high in attempts to "fix" things. I don't think there's a group of consumers out there who go out of their way to protect the environment as much as the boaters/fishermen on this site. Getting "wound up" about red tide is a good example of this. The government, on the other hand, is notoriously bad at this and will waste your money to do it. Ahem Kyoto...Paris...Solyndra


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Fishtex said:


> I’m just going to throw this out there to stir shit up but we have all been wound up about water quality issues, yet we have a whole crew completely ok with circumventing laws regarding air quality to get cheap outboards.
> 
> I used to work in a lab and tested and did development on various fuels and power systems. We were an EPA certified facility that performed FTP procedures for the EPA, etc.
> 
> ...


You are exactly right on 2 strokes and pollution. I honestly don't have a single counterargument to the fact that they are dirty (ETEC aside). However, it's a drop in the bucket. Why should I be environmentally conscious and buy a 4 stroke when Mosaic and U.S. Sugar and SWFL water management continue to have a free hand? When they blow the dike and seal off the canals, I'll send my old yammy off to the happy hunting grounds.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yep, Somali nailed it, don’t drag 2 stroke outboards into the water quality problems in Florida, that’s silly. I won’t be hanging a heavy ass 4 stroke on my transom any time soon so I guess I’m a POS.


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## wardicus (Jun 3, 2013)

Yeah I found them calling soon


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## Fishtex (May 10, 2014)

SomaliPirate said:


> You are exactly right on 2 strokes and pollution. I honestly don't have a single counterargument to the fact that they are dirty (ETEC aside). However, it's a drop in the bucket. Why should I be environmentally conscious and buy a 4 stroke when Mosaic and U.S. Sugar and SWFL water management continue to have a free hand? When they blow the dike and seal off the canals, I'll send my old yammy off to the happy hunting grounds.


Good point


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Fishtex said:


> Typical 2 stroke, say 60 hp puts out roughly the same amount of pollution as driving your car 5000 miles. A lawnmower operating for an hour puts out as much pollution as driving from Austin to Dallas. Etecs excluded in this discussion as they are using modern advanced tech to get their emissions to current acceptable levels.
> 
> Too much un-burned hydrocarbons and almost 30% of the gas and oil goes into the water. 4 strokes are in the range of 90% cleaner, there will be variances based on wear, state of tune, etc.
> 
> ...


Lawn mowers put off that much pollution? Even being 4 stroke? Way more lawn mowers than outboards, you would think that would be a bigger concern.


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## Fishtex (May 10, 2014)

makin moves said:


> Lawn mowers put off that much pollution? Even being 4 stroke? Way more lawn mowers than outboards, you would think that would be a bigger concern.


Sorry, should of made the clear, 2 stroke lawnmowers- the four strokes are much better. The two stroke weed eaters, chain saws, etc. are pretty bad but at least they are small and not run for hours every day unless they are on a yard crew. 

I saw some data on the number of outboards in use and was surprised a bit about how many are out there. I don’t see as many two strokes these days as I did 5 or 6 years ago which is a good thing for the environment but it also makes the outboard motor industry less of a target for more regulation, so you can still own and operate the 2 strokes with no issues. 

I had two strokes in the past but no more - these new fuel injected four strokes are really good and way lighter than they were 5 years ago.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Thanks for the clarification. I will say the new fuel injection 2 strokes are where its at!


Fishtex said:


> Sorry, should of made the clear, 2 stroke lawnmowers- the four strokes are much better. The two stroke weed eaters, chain saws, etc. are pretty bad but at least they are small and not run for hours every day unless they are on a yard crew.
> 
> I saw some data on the number of outboards in use and was surprised a bit about how many are out there. I don’t see as many two strokes these days as I did 5 or 6 years ago which is a good thing for the environment but it also makes the outboard motor industry less of a target for more regulation, so you can still own and operate the 2 strokes with no issues.
> 
> I had two strokes in the past but no more - these new fuel injected four strokes are really good and way lighter than they were 5 years ago.


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## Fishtex (May 10, 2014)

lemaymiami said:


> For Fishtex... Yes those old
> carved 2 strokes badly pollute... but E-Tex’s actually burn cleaner than any brand new 4 strokes on the market today... True story.


You’re right Bob, it’s too bad the other mfgs threw in the towel on the R& D side and went strictly 4 stroke for the US and EU. 

Most of them continue to make 2 strokes for primarily the third world but they are old tech. Those companies have no incentive to clean them up so they’ll continue to sell until the market dictates otherwise. 

I used to have a 2 stroke motorcycle, 400cc, and was faster than a 500cc 4 stroke, rarely any smoke, ran like a bat out a hell.....the old days....


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

and yet Al Gore still fly's around in private jets and rides in SUV limos with a clear conscience. And outboards and dirt bikes are the problem. sigh...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

devrep said:


> and yet Al Gore still fly's around in private jets and rides in SUV limos with a clear conscience. And outboards and dirt bikes are the problem. sigh...


Recreational fishing boats aren’t even a necessity!


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## Hardluk81 (Jan 3, 2016)

While we’re at it ... can I get a portable gas can with a f’ing vent


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Yep, Somali nailed it, don’t drag 2 stroke outboards into the water quality problems in Florida, that’s silly. I won’t be hanging a heavy ass 4 stroke on my transom any time soon so I guess I’m a POS.


Spot on smack our water issues down here aren't from no 2 stroke outboards but years of overpopulation of South Florida and the raping of the Everglades and land around it.


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## Viking1 (May 23, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Recreational fishing boats aren’t even a necessity!


I beg to differ on this. There are not enough emotional support animals in the world that could keep me happy if you took my boats away!!! LOL


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned this is a Florida problem, not the federal government's. This started with farmers building their own dikes and then politicians and business men convinced the Army Corp of Engineers to get involved. It's not like anyone back then knew what the long term consequences would be. It was a win/win for everyone back then. Putting it back to the way it was is never going to happen. Too many homes now south of the big lake.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

SomaliPirate said:


> You are exactly right on 2 strokes and pollution. I honestly don't have a single counterargument to the fact that they are dirty (ETEC aside). However, it's a drop in the bucket. Why should I be environmentally conscious and buy a 4 stroke when Mosaic and U.S. Sugar and SWFL water management continue to have a free hand? When they blow the dike and seal off the canals, I'll send my old yammy off to the happy hunting grounds.


It would make sense to start with the biggest contributors based on pollution x time operated. Look at city busses and dump trucks running round the clock, belching black smoke. But do an EGR delete on a newer pickup you run 20 minutes a day and you’re the devil. 

While 2-strokes might not meet current EPA/Euro III emissions (eTec’s excluded), the current synthetic oils running at 50:1 produce almost no smoke and oil slick on the water compared to the older oils run at 32:1.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

The impetus for the Federal Government and Corps of Engineers to get involved in dike building around Okeechobee was the hurricane floods of 1926/28 which caused over 3000 deaths and about $196 billion damage in today's dollars. This was at a time when the population of the area south of the lake was only a few hundred thousand or less. Today the population is stretching 6 million and the potential for property damage is unimaginable. 

Devrep is right. Given the stakes involved, putting it back the way it was is never going to happen.

I'm going to show my age here, but I was a child living in Miami in the '40s (I actually hung around with Phil (now Flip) Pallot when I was a pre-teen. He was great with a sling shot back then). I can still remember the clouds of mosquitoes from the Everglades and the suffocating smoke from fires that burned seasonally. Flood control wasn't as good then, and in some spots, as close to downtown Miami as the Orange Bowl, water stood 12" deep for weeks after a hurricane. We can never go back.


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## Boneheaded (Oct 4, 2017)

https://miami.craigslist.org/brw/bpo/d/2011-yamaha-enduro-2-stroke/6692107375.html


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

That is a clean engine but I have already bought one


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