# Playing around with some new glue



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Don't wonder... I'm not sniffin it! LOL

As some of you know, I'm always searching for a better widget when it comes to fly fishing and even fly tying. Non-UV glues have been something I have gone over several times here on the fly board. At this point, I still am a huge fan of Liquid Fusion (can get it at Michael's for about $7.99) and continue using it to glue on epoxy eyes and cover heads, etc. Once dried, the Liquid Fusion becomes thin, but it's very strong and thin = lighter weight, which can be good to reduce weight in flies .Remember, that type of glue needs to rest for about 5 mins before it starts to slowly cures. Then after about an hr, it starts to setup and then after about 3 hrs, it sets up really good. It fully cures over night/24hrs and ready to fish at that time.








But remember, it shrinks as it dries. Good for some flies, but not as good if you are trying to build up some bulk on heads and bodies. But also remember, building up glue adds weight (which I will explain further on down). I've used it even for spoon flies, but in some cases, the spoons were too light (good for shallow flats) for deeper fishing and had to go back to epoxy to add some weight, which I don't love to work with epoxies. Anyways, I think LF is a crystal clear liquid nylon resin, as opposed to epoxy (which can yellow). Still, the LF is hard setting, stays clears, doesn't yellow, has no smell to it once cured (which is important, when fish also smell). It's also strong and is water proof. Best of all, it stays semi-flexable, unlike most epoxies. So it makes a great coating for soft bodied flies, like an outside protective coating on gurglers, crease flies, popper bodies and such, including clear head coating. The problem with that not being a UV cure glue, you'll need a rotary fly turning wheel *or* just be a dedicated manual rotary vise turner person. 

So in comes this new glue I found. I know... The pic gives it away! 










Gorilla Glue CLEAR!!! (NOT THE WHITE!) Just 5.99 at your local hardware store (or Wally World!).

Ok.... The exact same properties as above so far, as far as I can see and tell at this time. I've done some testing and so far, so good.

The main difference is that what volume you see coming out of the bottle, is the same volume of product once cured. So it acts like epoxy where it has the same bulkness to it like epoxy does. But it takes a lot longer to cure (if you have the time and patience) and it's a 1-part, 1 step process. But remember, glue bulk =weight. So take that into account when factoring weight on your fly. In many cases, you can cut out the lead if you build up a bit of bulk on your heads and bodies.

So why these glues as opposed to UV glues? Simple.... If you have the time and patience, it's far cheaper and just as strong in the end. Yes, it can be harder to work with a glue that doesn't set up quickly. But if you figure out how to work with it, it can be better in some cases.

Super glues? Yes they have their place. But not with epoxy eyes, unless you like fishing with flies that have Pirate eyes or go blind all together. LOL Super glues are just too hard for eyes and the glue ends up breaking if it's wacked too hard, where the flexible glues, like above will give a bit, then recover. The end result will be flies with less eyes that get ripped off.

Also, both will have a nice gloss to the finish, where some super glues wouldn't.

On baitfish pattern flies where I want to glue on the holographic epoxy eyes, Lay it down on your table/bench on a clean flat piece of paper (laid on it's side). Next I'll take a toothpick (handy tool btw for fly tying and I keep a pack of em on my tying desk) and put a drop or so of one of the glues above, onto the spot where the eye will be placed. Then I'll work it into the fibers, under where the eye will sit. Then I'll put a final drop on that spot again and place and seat the eye in place. Then I'll flip it over and do the other side the same way. Pick the fly up and carefully align the eyes with each other. Then set it back down and leave it there over night. Then that's it! No pinching the eyes together required!


Good luck and have fun with it and please give me feed back on this thread on your success with it, or not. 


Ted Haas


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Might have to give one of those a shot -- I got some stuff you suggested a while back (I think GO2 gel?) but haven't had a chance to play with it much either.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

bryson said:


> Might have to give one of those a shot -- I got some stuff you suggested a while back (I think GO2 gel?) but haven't had a chance to play with it much either.


I'm finding this stuff seems to work better, especially the Liquid Fusion, especially for holographic epoxy eyes, which I've been testing and using it for nearly 2yrs now. I did liked the GO2 from Loctite for the eyes, but it's just not as good as the LF, especially for epoxy eyes. However, the GO2 starts to clouse up if using it for bulky body and head build up and I've had some flies go thru several fish that ended up the glue coming off the fly, but not with the LF. So you can still use the GO2 Glue for household projects.

The Gorilla Glue Clear is new to me, but seems to be doing good so far, but just not tested enough yet and only time will tell on the stuff. So far, I've had flies soaking over night in water and the cured glue material seems to be holding up well so far.


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## Tailer (Jan 10, 2017)

Ted, I like the clear Gorilla Glue as well. I use it in place of cyanoacrylates for the same reason you mentioned above. CA's are strong, but they can be brittle. I still use CCG with a UV light for heads though because I don't have to mess with a dryer.


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

Liquid Fusion can also be diluted with water and applied by brushing it on to prevent fouling such as in Johnny King's hoo fly.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I use Aleene's fabric fusion as my go to adhesive for eyes and building bodies or skins of flies. Looking at the MSDS of Aleene's and LF it appears to be the same or similar water based polyurethane adhesive SG=1.08. It also stays flexible, dries clear and is waterproof. Not sure the difference in the LF and FF but FF is half the price. Never tried LF so maybe I'm missing out on something.


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

rakeel said:


> I use Aleene's fabric fusion as my go to adhesive for eyes and building bodies or skins of flies. Looking at the MSDS of Aleene's and LF it appears to be the same or similar water based polyurethane adhesive SG=1.08. It also stays flexible, dries clear and is waterproof. Not sure the difference in the LF and FF but FF is half the price. Never tried LF so maybe I'm missing out on something.


I use both product and I don't see any noticable difference between the two.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I believe I've seen Aleene's in the store. But the one thing that needs to be figured out in order for a glue to be effective for fly tying is that it is odorless and waterproof, on top of it's ability to really hold good and not break down.


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## bonehead (Dec 9, 2016)

I am a huge fan of Hard as Hull. It is all I use except for uv heads in which that case I use Loon


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

bonehead said:


> I am a huge fan of Hard as Hull. It is all I use except for uv heads in which that case I use Loon


I don't know how Hard as Hull compares to the original Sally Hanson's Hard as Nails (which I currently use as well). I also use a good brush-on superglue of some kind.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

The eyes come off with Loon I'm looking for something different. Going to Harbour Freight tomorrow they may have some gorilla


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## bonehead (Dec 9, 2016)

I actually like investing in the ep game change eyes. You actually tie them in like a dumbbell and they look exactly like any regular glue on eyes


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

bonehead said:


> I actually like investing in the ep game change eyes. You actually tie them in like a dumbbell and they look exactly like any regular glue on eyes


Expensive.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Expensive.


Isn't everything from EP expensive?

I started making eyes for baitfish patterns with plastic bead chain. I cut 3 off and crush the middle one to remove it from the rope. Then I dip the whole thing in Aleene's and hang it from one bead so that it hangs straight to dry. This makes the rope stiff so I can tie it in like a dumbbell eye.


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## RobA (Aug 21, 2015)

bonehead said:


> I actually like investing in the ep game change eyes. You actually tie them in like a dumbbell and they look exactly like any regular glue on eyes


I've actually noticed that I lose more eyes using the game change eyes than I do when I glue on the old doll eyes. Super glue must be stronger than plastic. But they work so much better tying flies with brush heads that I keep using them.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

rakeel said:


> Isn't everything from EP expensive?
> 
> I started making eyes for baitfish patterns with plastic bead chain. I cut 3 off and crush the middle one to remove it from the rope. Then I dip the whole thing in Aleene's and hang it from one bead so that it hangs straight to dry. This makes the rope stiff so I can tie it in like a dumbbell eye.


That's why I don't buy everything from EP.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Backwater said:


> That's why I don't buy everything from EP.


Yap. Congo hair and watersilk are very similar materials to EP at a fraction of the price and it's not hard to make your own brushes if you just buy some stainless craft wire and make a little table.


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

Backwater said:


> I don't know how Hard as Hull compares to the original Sally Hanson's Hard as Nails (which I currently use as well). I also use a good brush-on superglue of some kind.


SH Hard as Nails is a far cry from being odorless !


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

sidelock said:


> SH Hard as Nails is a far cry from being odorless !


Yes that's true. With those flies, I usually shelve them for a while before I use them (maybe a week or so) to give it some time for odors to dissipate. Those are normally flies that are used for fish that don't normally care too much about it. But for finicky fish that have a problem with it, I'll use the Liquid Fusion or even no head cement at all.


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## Timucua_Outdoors (Oct 15, 2016)

Zap a gap thin works great for us. Put it on all of our flies with lead or bead chain eyes. Although it won't work for butting doll eyes on baitfish patterns. You'll have to get zap a gap gel for that.


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