# 2 house/starting/electronics batteries ?



## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

I have a dedicated start battery, another for trolling motor, lights, and bilge pumps and a 3rd smaller dry cell for fish finder. I had the fish finder wired in with the troller but was getting feedback on my electronics when I had the trolling motor on. So I added the small battery.


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

fishnpreacher said:


> I have a dedicated start battery, another for trolling motor, lights, and bilge pumps and a 3rd smaller dry cell for fish finder. I had the fish finder wired in with the troller but was getting feedback on my electronics when I had the trolling motor on. So I added the small battery.


All those batteries stayed charged for your trips?


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Waste of money in a skiff IMO. Just get a LIPO jump start battery if you are worried about running out of juice. I have had one battery for the everything but the trolling motor and two batteries for it. I have never lost juice. Never. And the jump start battery is so small you can carry it anywhere you may ever need an extra spark.


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

ifsteve said:


> Waste of money in a skiff IMO. Just get a LIPO jump start battery if you are worried about running out of juice. I have had one battery for the everything but the trolling motor and two batteries for it. I have never lost juice. Never. And the jump start battery is so small you can carry it anywhere you may ever need an extra spark.


I like that idea. Yet engine manufactures don’t recommend LiPos to start their engines....yet.


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

DjPic said:


> All those batteries stayed charged for your trips?


So far I'm good. The start battery stays charged from the motor of course. The trolling battery will stay charged for 2-3 trips, depending on usage. The electronics draw very little, so no problem there.


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## ZaneD (Feb 28, 2017)

DjPic said:


> Anyone out there run 2 house/starting batteries on their boats? Or how about a separate battery just for electronics?


For a flats/bay/larger boat I would run two batteries with a perko switch to select between them. For a poling skiff especially <70HP just one battery, not counting the TM setup. I use a single Odyssey PC1200 that works great.


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

Old Man
Old School

I have always run 2 house batteries on all my boats with a #1-#2-off-all switch. These two batteries are for starting the engine and ALL other items on the boat (radio,bildge,gps, live well, lighting) and any other items that require 12volt no mater what they are *excluding *trolling motors. I switch these batteries from #1 to #2 every other trip and leave them in the OFF position when the boat is not in use.

I never use the boat with the switch in the ALL position because if a short in the wiring or heavy battery use can drain a battery down to the point that it cannot start the engine. At that point the second battery can be used to start the engine. 

I never externally charged these batteries and never have had to by allowing the engine alternator to do its job while on the water. 

My trolling motor battery or batteries are stand alone and power ONLY the trolling motor with remote battery chargers used to charge them before each use.

Simple System that has never once been any trouble on any of my boats.


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## Crazyju (Oct 28, 2020)

If the budget allows just go Lithium and you wont ever have to worry about your battery again. I am running them on 3 different boats now. The latest a 16ft santee with a 25hp jet. Running a 12 inch garmin, livescope, livewell and a micro pole and the alternator charges the battery back up by the time I am back to the dock. (100ah) battery.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I won’t rig any skiff without two batteries -and with a battery switch that allows you to safely isolate each battery from the other or combine them when you need extra power (my switch... always a standard 3way Perko battery switch). Battery one a standard cranking battery, battery two a deep cycle battery one size larger than battery #1 (group 24 start, group 27 the “house battery”).

When I need a 24 volt setup and have to add a third battery, it’s also a group 27 and the low side of the combined two gp 27 batts is set up as the “house” battery...

I know that folks with super light microskiff setups will go out of their way to have the least amount of battery possible on their skiffs - but that’s not how a commercial operator should be rigged in my opinion...


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

Crazyju said:


> If the budget allows just go Lithium and you wont ever have to worry about your battery again. I am running them on 3 different boats now. The latest a 16ft santee with a 25hp jet. Running a 12 inch garmin, livescope, livewell and a micro pole and the alternator charges the battery back up by the time I am back to the dock. (100ah) battery.


What battery manufacture do you use for the lithium and do you just plug it directly into the engine?


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## Crazyju (Oct 28, 2020)

DjPic said:


> What battery manufacture do you use for the lithium and do you just plug it directly into the engine?


Ionics. I am using their 125 ah for a 250 proxs and a 100ah for a 90hp carbed mercury and a 100ah for the 25hp tohatsu jet drive. They are a direct replacement for traditional batteries.


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## RoosterTom (Aug 9, 2020)

I run 3 batteries on my Towee upon the strong recommendation of someone that knows a lot about marine electronics. I have a large Deep Cycle in my bow compartment for the Minn Kota, and a smaller 12V Starting Battery in the stern. I also have a very small 12V under my stern seat that runs the Lowrance. At times I have felt that is one too many but it has worked out well all considered. I don't worry about any trolling motor interference to the Fishfinder, and I can't help but think that it is not good to have starting pulses hitting the Fishfinder over time so not worries there...


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

I have a single 12v main, a single 24v trolling and a power pole charge setup. If I’m somewhere where I damn sure don’t want to have to spend the night, I bring a noco jump starter. Also have sea tow, epirb, vhf. About to get a sat texter. 

Not carrying a second cabin battery.

couple of things to note. A pp charge isn’t going to be able to jump a battery that lost a cell. If you just ran your battery dead, the charge will get you jumped off. It also does a good job of ensuring you never go dead. The rare time that you need another battery, the jump starter will do the job. It weighs 4-5 lbs. I’ve never had to use it as the only time I’ve lost a cell on the main battery was prior to launching.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

lemaymiami said:


> I won’t rig any skiff without two batteries -and with a battery switch that allows you to safely isolate each battery from the other or combine them when you need extra power (my switch... always a standard 3way Perko battery switch). Battery one a standard cranking battery, battery two a deep cycle battery one size larger than battery #1 (group 24 start, group 27 the “house battery”).
> 
> When I need a 24 volt setup and have to add a third battery, it’s also a group 27 and the low side of the combined two gp 27 batts is set up as the “house” battery...
> 
> I know that folks with super light microskiff setups will go out of their way to have the least amount of battery possible on their skiffs - but that’s not how a commercial operator should be rigged in my opinion...


What advantage does a second battery offer you over a jump start battery? How many times in your long career have you ever had a battery go out while out on the water and had to switch to the second battery and continued to fish the rest of the day? Not saying it can't and doesn't happen but no guides that I now run two house batteries. Thats just more weight than you need to pole around all day IMO.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

ifsteve said:


> What advantage does a second battery offer you over a jump start battery? How many times in your long career have you ever had a battery go out while out on the water and had to switch to the second battery and continued to fish the rest of the day? Not saying it can't and doesn't happen but no guides that I now run two house batteries. Thats just more weight than you need to pole around all day IMO.


If you lose a cell that jump start battery ain’t going to crank it unless you remove the damaged battery from the connection. At that point you are trying to run on just the jump starter. Not sure how that would play out. Only once in my life have I had a battery die (not lose charge but actually go bad) while on the water. In that boat I had a 2nd cabin battery, but it wouldn’t crank until I isolated to just that connection. 
Thinking about it, it may be a waste of time to even carry the jump starter for the reason I bring it.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Here’s something to think about.... I’ve been a full time guide now for 25 years - and operated out of the same old Maverick from the first day. Originally it was set up as described with two batts, one cranking batt (gp 24) and a house battery (gp 27) for the 12 volt TM... On more than one occasion in those early years (long before those neat jump start units came along) that second battery saved our bacon, sometimes deep into the backcountry where no help was coming until a day or two later... On very cold days with an older cranking battery I knew that combining the two batts would always start my motor - then once it was running I’d carefully switch back to the weak battery only and the run out in the morning would be all it would take to charge it up for the rest of the trip. If batt #1 needed that second battery to start again during the day - it was time to replace it. After about three years I quit using a trolling motor entirely and relied on my pushpole for years while battery #2 was simply my reserve battery and was only switched on when batt #1needed help
(But in a pinch you could work a day or two with it as your cranking battery until the primary battery could be replaced).

Finally a year ago I once again had a TM installed - this was a 24 volt unit and required another battery (two gp 27 batts) combined with cranking battery (gp 24) for battery #3. What I didn’t know was that the low side of the two combined batteries was still only 12 volts. That allowed us to use my original setup and the standard Perko battery switch... Very handy since as a guide I have to go day after day (and some years it feels like I live on that old skiff...).

Maybe I’m overly cautious but all of my lessons on the water came the hard way. The setup I’ve just described won’t let you down...


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

Crazyju said:


> If the budget allows just go Lithium and you wont ever have to worry about your battery again. I am running them on 3 different boats now. The latest a 16ft santee with a 25hp jet. Running a 12 inch garmin, livescope, livewell and a micro pole and the alternator charges the battery back up by the time I am back to the dock. (100ah) battery.


Do you run lithium for your starting battery? I am curious as I am looking to go lithium for both the starting and trolling batteries.


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## Crazyju (Oct 28, 2020)

Yes, I am running lithium starting batteries on 3 different boats.


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

Crazyju said:


> Yes, I am running lithium starting batteries on 3 different boats.


How long been running them, no issues? I heard recommendations against it is why I am asking. Prefer to run Lithium though.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I had the perko setup like Bob mentioned earlier on my old skiff. My new one has a 24v trolling motor and 12v house battery. The house battery is a Odyssey pc1200 and I think it's gone bad. I didn't notice obviously until I put the boat in the other day and it would start but the trim worked. 

I've tried to give it a charge but it doesn't seem to be taking. I'm surprised because the Odyssey's are good batteries and it's less than a year old. I've never had to really charge my house battery so I was a bit surprised. 

Good news is we kept fishing that day and found a few fish.


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## Crazyju (Oct 28, 2020)

DjPic said:


> How long been running them, no issues? I heard recommendations against it is why I am asking. Prefer to run Lithium though.


I have been running one a Mercury 250pr xs for almost 2 years. One on an old carbed mercury for 4 months and have 6 trips on the 25hp tohatsu.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I have been using Li-Ion batteries since Nov. 2017. Two 12 v. 50 AH, one for house/cranking, the other in series for 24 v trolling motor. They charge quickly, don't discharge while sitting, and have caused me no problems. They're $465 now and were $650 when I bought them


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

ifsteve said:


> Waste of money in a skiff IMO. Just get a LIPO jump start battery if you are worried about running out of juice. I have had one battery for the everything but the trolling motor and two batteries for it. I have never lost juice. Never. And the jump start battery is so small you can carry it anywhere you may ever need an extra spark.


@ifsteve What jump start battery are you using and have you tried to make sure it works? I like the idea of a multiple use product. I can carry that for both my boats, truck, car, etc. I am checking out these: NOCO - Lithium Jump Starters


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

DjPic said:


> @ifsteve What jump start battery are you using and have you tried to make sure it works? I like the idea of a multiple use product. I can carry that for both my boats, truck, car, etc. I am checking out these: NOCO - Lithium Jump Starters


I have the Noco 70. It will start a dead boat battery. Not sure it will get you back if you have a bad battery.


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

kylet said:


> I have the Noco 70. It will start a dead boat battery. Not sure it will get you back if you have a bad battery.


I have seen on YouTube people connecting them directly to the connectors with no battery on cars, and it started right up.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

DjPic said:


> I have seen on YouTube people connecting them directly to the connectors with no battery on cars, and it started right up.


It will crank like that for sure, but will it continue to run on that. My guess is no.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

The bad battery issue is why I used (2) 12v lithium's for my 24v. It basically puts/keeps 2 spares on the boat. Those with a NOCO GB40 onboard makes me feel like I have plenty of juice.

I am curious to learn about/how others use of the "low side" of the (2) series 12v's in the 24v system to run 12v accessories works...ie what connections are the "low side"? @lemaymiami


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

Water Bound said:


> The bad battery issue is why I used (2) 12v lithium's for my 24v. It basically puts/keeps 2 spares on the boat. Those with a NOCO GB40 onboard makes me feel like I have plenty of juice.
> 
> I am curious to learn about/how others use of the "low side" of the (2) series 12v's in the 24v system to run 12v accessories works...ie what connections are the "low side"? @lemaymiami


3+ batteries on a skiff seems to be a bit much. On a bigger boat, sure.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Not really, this is the setup the majority of skiffs with a 24v trolling motor in use. I was addressing the flexibility of the (2) 12v’s vs (1) 24v when considering the bad battery issue @kylet alluded to. My two 12v’s weigh less than 30lbs combined. 



DjPic said:


> 3+ batteries on a skiff seems to be a bit much. On a bigger boat, sure.


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

Water Bound said:


> Not really, this is the setup the majority of skiffs with a 24v trolling motor in use. I was addressing the flexibility of the (2) 12v’s vs (1) 24v when considering the bad battery issue @kylet alluded to. My two 12v’s weigh less than 30lbs combined.


What batteries do you have? My plan was to do the single 24v LiPo 60Ah and that weighs 30lbs. The 12v LiPos I was looking at are 70Ah and 23lbs each.


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

Generic question for everyone using the starting battery to run electronics, lights, etc. What Amp Hour are you using?


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Amped Outdoors - 60Ah Lithium Battery (LiFePO4) - Available in January 2021



DjPic said:


> What batteries do you have? My plan was to do the single 24v LiPo 60Ah and that weighs 30lbs. The 12v LiPos I was looking at are 70Ah and 23lbs each.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

DjPic said:


> 3+ batteries on a skiff seems to be a bit much. On a bigger boat, sure.


I’m not sure which ones you are using but I have Relion for my Lithium 24V50ah. They only have 2 battery’s that have starting capacity a 12V50ahHP AND A 12V100ahHP. The 50ah HP has 400 peak amp discharge for 2s. The 100ah HP has 800 peak amp discharge for 2s. I obviously don’t have all these batteries to test personally, but going by the battery manufacturer specifications and my engine specifications. The 50ah HP won’t crank my engine. I’d need every bit of the 100ah HP. I’m not sure the HP lithium’s are designed for deep cycle application though. I want to say they are specifically designed to be discharged and recharged based on a starting battery profile. Would be something to ask battery manufacturer.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Water Bound said:


> The bad battery issue is why I used (2) 12v lithium's for my 24v. It basically puts/keeps 2 spares on the boat. Those with a NOCO GB40 onboard makes me feel like I have plenty of juice.
> 
> I am curious to learn about/how others use of the "low side" of the (2) series 12v's in the 24v system to run 12v accessories works...ie what connections are the "low side"? @lemaymiami


the low side is the negative side of the two. It would be the side that has the positive connected to the high side negative.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Water Bound said:


> Amped Outdoors - 60Ah Lithium Battery (LiFePO4) - Available in January 2021


that battery has a peak amps of 80.Have you tried to crank your engine with that?


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

DjPic said:


> Generic question for everyone using the starting battery to run electronics, lights, etc. What Amp Hour are you using?


My starting/house is Optima BlueTop D34M. Believe they are 54ah


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

kylet said:


> I’m not sure which ones you are using but I have Relion for my Lithium 24V50ah. They only have 2 battery’s that have starting capacity a 12V50ahHP AND A 12V100ahHP. The 50ah HP has 400 peak amp discharge for 2s. The 100ah HP has 800 peak amp discharge for 2s. I obviously don’t have all these batteries to test personally, but going by the battery manufacturer specifications and my engine specifications. The 50ah HP won’t crank my engine. I’d need every bit of the 100ah HP. I’m not sure the HP lithium’s are designed for deep cycle application though. I want to say they are specifically designed to be discharged and recharged based on a starting battery profile. Would be something to ask battery manufacturer.


This is what I am looking at going with:
 M3180-S 12V 80AH LIFEPO4 LITHIUM ION MARINE STARTING BATTERY
 M3160-24CK 24V 60AH TROLLING BATTERY KIT


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## Crazyju (Oct 28, 2020)

DjPic said:


> This is what I am looking at going with:
> M3180-S 12V 80AH LIFEPO4 LITHIUM ION MARINE STARTING BATTERY
> M3160-24CK 24V 60AH TROLLING BATTERY KIT


 You can do alot better on pricing. The ones I just picked up were 799. for a 100 ah battery and it will start any outboard you want. I got the 24v 50 ah battery for 839. You dont need a beefy charger for the starting battery.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

No, but the NOCO jumper should get it going. 



kylet said:


> that battery has a peak amps of 80.Have you tried to crank your engine with that?


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Water Bound said:


> No, but the NOCO jumper should get it going.


I’ll have to double check but I believe the noco specifically says it cannot jump lithium’s. Checking now.

Edit: yeah it it’s for jumping lead acid only. Wet/Gel/AGM


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Crazyju said:


> You can do alot better on pricing. The ones I just picked up were 799. for a 100 ah battery and it will start any outboard you want. I got the 24v 50 ah battery for 839. You dont need a beefy charger for the starting battery.


And that would be?


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## Crazyju (Oct 28, 2020)

Sorry left that out. Ionics. Guy is out of NC. Great to deal with. I bought a set a few years ago and have bought every battery i needed since then from him. He also carries a jump starter that works with lithiums. I dont have it, so I cant verify how well it works.


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

Crazyju said:


> Sorry left that out. Ionics. Guy is out of NC. Great to deal with. I bought a set a few years ago and have bought every battery i needed since then from him. He also carries a jump starter that works with lithiums. I dont have it, so I cant verify how well it works.


 Do you have their website link?


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## Crazyju (Oct 28, 2020)

DjPic said:


> Do you have their website link?











Lithium Marine Batteries | Ionic LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery


Our lithium marine batteries last 10+ years; 4x longer than lead acid! They charge 5x faster, are up to 70% lighter & are 100% maintenance free. Try them today!




lithiumhub.com


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

DjPic said:


> @ifsteve What jump start battery are you using and have you tried to make sure it works? I like the idea of a multiple use product. I can carry that for both my boats, truck, car, etc. I am checking out these: NOCO - Lithium Jump Starters


I have a Micro Start XP-10 and yes it absolutely works. The first day I had it I was at a launch and guy asked me if I had battery cables and could I jump his boat. I said no but I have something better. Handed him my brand new XP-10 and told him I didn't even know how to use it yet but the instructions were in the package. I proceeded to park my vehicle and when I walked back to the launch he was smiling and tried to give me $10. Said it worked like a charm. I took the jumper and declined the $10 and told him to keep it. He said he was ordering one as soon as he got home. Then one day I was going to fill up the boat with gas but my Armada wouldn't start. Got the micro out and it cranked it right up. Went to Oriellys and they tested the battery and it had a bad cell so got a new battery. So long story short it works great.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Read about those jump starting deals then shot over to the NOCO site... every one of them (except the highest end on that's around $1800...) is OUT OF STOCK at present. If anyone has further info - I'm all ears...


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Amazon- Amazon.com : noco jump starter



lemaymiami said:


> Read about those jump starting deals then shot over to the NOCO site... every one of them (except the highest end on that's around $1800...) is OUT OF STOCK at present. If anyone has further info - I'm all ears...


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

lemaymiami said:


> Read about those jump starting deals then shot over to the NOCO site... every one of them (except the highest end on that's around $1800...) is OUT OF STOCK at present. If anyone has further info - I'm all ears...


They had a big sale at Christmas. I remember looking a few weeks ago and all were in stock.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

ifsteve said:


> I have a Micro Start XP-10 and yes it absolutely works. The first day I had it I was at a launch and guy asked me if I had battery cables and could I jump his boat. I said no but I have something better. Handed him my brand new XP-10 and told him I didn't even know how to use it yet but the instructions were in the package. I proceeded to park my vehicle and when I walked back to the launch he was smiling and tried to give me $10. Said it worked like a charm. I took the jumper and declined the $10 and told him to keep it. He said he was ordering one as soon as he got home. Then one day I was going to fill up the boat with gas but my Armada wouldn't start. Got the micro out and it cranked it right up. Went to Oriellys and they tested the battery and it had a bad cell so got a new battery. So long story short it works great.


I lost a cell the other day at the ramp. It was like 26 degrees that morning. The night before had it on charge and everything was fine. At the ramp engine wouldn’t even trim. Voltage read 13+. But every time I tried to crank it would fall to 3ish. I put noco 70 on it and same thing. Just for ignorance purposes I decided to unhook my trailer and pull around and hook jumper cables for battery to car. After about 10 minutes of charging still dead as a hammer. Went to auto zone got a new battery. 
I have no doubt in my mind the noco would have cranked it had I unhooked the leads from the bad battery. But that thing has nearly no reserve and very low ah and I’m not sure it can take the return charge from the alternator so I didn’t try it. It makes no sense to me how a bad cell battery can be jumped. Usually if you don’t have an isolator switch, you can add as many batteries as you want in parrallel, but it won’t-make any difference - that current stops at that bad cell.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

lemaymiami said:


> Read about those jump starting deals then shot over to the NOCO site... every one of them (except the highest end on that's around $1800...) is OUT OF STOCK at present. If anyone has further info - I'm all ears...


Amazon has the GB-40 on sale.



https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GB40-UltraSafe-Lithium-Starter/dp/B015TKUPIC/ref=sxts_b2b_sx_reorder?crid=HVR2OQANKEKD&cv_ct_cx=noco+boost+plus+gb40+1000+amp+12v&dchild=1&keywords=noco+boost+plus+gb40+1000+amp+12v&pd_rd_i=B015TKUPIC&pd_rd_r=b7d33274-e206-482b-8200-4ca28330d44f&pd_rd_w=Dj18R&pd_rd_wg=sh9C3&pf_rd_p=55e3f870-f610-46d5-a6bd-2adc9a5c4c7c&pf_rd_r=T9T9W1A7MAX2QMSKV478&qid=1610198652&sprefix=noco%2Caps%2C201&sr=1-1-f5ebfd8e-82c1-4b4e-97d5-2aa47aa18b69


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## DjPic (Feb 24, 2020)

While searching my ideal set-up, I found this video:






My plan going forward will be exactly what is in that video:
12v LithiumPro Starting Battery
24v LithiumPro Trolling Battery
Power-Pole Charge

He did update his set-up with an additional battery, but I will keep it to two:


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

I run two completely separate batteries, it has several advantages IMO. Up front I have a normal 12v deep cycle for the trolling motor and auto bilge pump. I can run the trolling motor all day or leave the boat docked/beached, and know I can crank the motor even if the float switch sticks.

I have a small AGM starting battery that runs the lights and fish finder, as well as an emergency bilge pump with a manual switch, in the event that something happens to the primary system.

Both batteries are wired with Trac trolling motor plugs, so I can plug in a charger through the bulkheads or jump start the engine battery.


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