# thoughts on stainless hooks for flies



## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

I usually use Gama sl12s or sl11-3x . I do use some ss in the Mustad 34007 flavor, the 34007 is what you'll find on most commercially tied ss flies.


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## Jveiguela (Jun 27, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> I usually use Gama sl12s or sl11-3x . I do use some ss in the Mustad 34007 flavor, the 34007 is what you'll find on most commercially tied ss flies.


I always see that the Gamakatsu hooks are very popular. is there a reason why you favor them? sharpness, gap etc?


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

I think they're sharper (crazy sharp) and slightly stiffer than most others, but they're tin plated which means they'll rust. If I'm doing bend backs or something that'll damage the plating I use the 34007s. 
I just picked up some Varivas hooks but haven't tied or otherwise used them, so I can't give input but they look really really nice.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

I should say, I'm an amateur at tying and only tie for myself or to give some to friends. There's a member here named @lemaymiami he's a long time guide, and also ties for profit. He is very knowledgeable and has probably tried a much wider range of hooks.
LH


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I like 34007 hooks but my fly shop stopped carrying them so now I am using Gama's
I am not a pro tyer either some guides have used mine. Big deal. Your right Capt. Bob is the pro guy


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I tie mostly on 34007's. They aren't very sharp out of the package and bc they're stainless they will lose their point after a few fish. So I keep a hook sharpener on me to touch my hooks up every so often. 

I tie some flies on gammakatsu hooks as well, especially when I need a wider gap hook. I like the gammie hooks, they're crazy sharp right out of the package, however I think I got a bad batch of SC15 wide gap hooks awhile back bc I had 2 or 3 break on fish.


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## Moore Lyon and Quick (Aug 26, 2015)

I like the gamakatsu SP11-3L3H (Perfect bend) hook for inshore stuff, especially clousers and gurglers - light wire, large gap - I seem to get better hook sets. Plus I can tie a large profile fly but still keep it fairly light. This gauge wire in the larger sizes (1/0 and up) is noticeably thicker than for the smaller sizes


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

SS hooks have more negatives than positives for me, only positive being how long they last. 

We tie mostly on the SC15s also. Those above have stated accurately. On breaking them: the only broken ones I've personnally seen/experienced are on multiple-trip flies. Meaning they have had an opportunity to get a bit of corrosion upstream of the hook bend, in the underwraps where it's hard to wash clean. Flies rarely last more than a couple of uses for me. If the materials or hook don't look 4.0, I hang 'em on the "used" corkboard.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Moore Lyon and Quick said:


> I like the gamakatsu SP11-3L3H (Perfect bend) hook for inshore stuff, especially clousers and gurglers - light wire, large gap - I seem to get better hook sets. Plus I can tie a large profile fly but still keep it fairly light. This gauge wire in the larger sizes (1/0 and up) is noticeably thicker than for the smaller sizes


I use the same thing for my gurglers in Bass Pro Shops XPS Straight Shank Round Bend black chrome hooks. Maybe a knock off og the Gami's you mentioned (or maybe Gami makes them for them, who knows....).

http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-XPS-Straight-Shank-Round-Bend-Hook/product/27235/

IMO, they are not the "perfect bend" for keeping a fish buttoned, but they work great on Gurglers and I'll even use them on crease flies at times. Also for some poppers.

Remember, it's a high carbon, black chrome hook. They WILL rust. So I take extra care to rinse the salt off the hook with freshwater as soon as I cut it off and change it out (unless I'm in the fish), if I want it to last longer. I'll splash it good with my water bottle and keep it separated from my other flies in the fly box. When I get home, I'll rinse them off again, really good with the hose or tap water (no soap) and squeeze the water off with a dry paper towel, then lay them out to dry over night before I place them back in the box.


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## duppyzafari (Jul 9, 2015)

View attachment 2892
I tie a bunch and I love Gamakatsu. 

SL12S, SC15, SC17, 
& SL11-3H are my faves. 

(SL12S 1/0 pictured)

Nary a complaint from me on performance or price.


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## Moore Lyon and Quick (Aug 26, 2015)

Backwater said:


> I use the same thing for my gurglers in Bass Pro Shops XPS Straight Shank Round Bend black chrome hooks. Maybe a knock off og the Gami's you mentioned (or maybe Gami makes them for them, who knows....).


Thanks for the info - nice to know. Other hooks to consider are the Gamakatsu B10s Stinger - another wide gap freshwater hook that works well in salt, and the dai-riki 930 - looks like the 34007 but is sharper out of the box


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

I refuse to use stainless hooks anymore.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I refuse to use stainless hooks anymore.


Curious.... Why?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Moore Lyon and Quick said:


> Thanks for the info - nice to know. Other hooks to consider are the Gamakatsu B10s Stinger - another wide gap freshwater hook that works well in salt, and the dai-riki 930 - looks like the 34007 but is sharper out of the box


Be careful about using the Gami B10S Stingers. I do like the hook, but they have their place. The gap size is one size over the stated size. In other words, a #2 is the size of a #1. Also, their black nickel coating is thin and not as good as their other hooks using black chrome or other mfgs using the same. So they will rust quickly in the salt. So take care in rinsing them good to get a few more licks out of them. They do work great for floating flies since they are big gaped and light weight. Good for freshwater bass flies.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Moore Lyon and Quick said:


> Thanks for the info - nice to know. Other hooks to consider are the Gamakatsu B10s Stinger - another wide gap freshwater hook that works well in salt, and the dai-riki 930 - looks like the 34007 but is sharper out of the box


Curious, how'd you find out about the Dai-Riki 930 SS hook? 

Btw, welcome to the Fly Fishing forum of Microskiff!


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Curious.... Why?


I like knowing that my non stainless hooks will rust away. I harvested a 32" snook this year only because he had a torn jaw and a very old stainless hook in the stomach. The hook still looked great even though the stomach was nothing but a ball of scar tissue. The torn jaw was healed over while the leader was embedded into it. I still have the hook if you would like to see just how long they last in a fish.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I like knowing that my non stainless hooks will rust away. I harvested a 32" snook this year only because he had a torn jaw and a very old stainless hook in the stomach. The hook still looked great even though the stomach was nothing but a ball of scar tissue. The torn jaw was healed over while the leader was embedded into it. I still have the hook if you would like to see just how long they last in a fish.


So what hooks are you using?


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

I've used most of the previous hooks listed and currently using the Owner 5306 and 5106 shorter shank hooks along with Mustad C68sz. Never had a hook break on me but I guess I'm not tangling with enough big tarpon to test them. Mostly trout and reds. I use the SC15 a lot for slower sinking flats flies and never had any problems.
Sooooo many good choices out there these days for what ever your personal needs dictate. Long shank, short shank, heavy wire and light....


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Backwater said:


> So what hooks are you using?


Mustad 3407 for trash fish and gamakatsu sc15 for the reds and snook.


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## Moore Lyon and Quick (Aug 26, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Curious, how'd you find out about the Dai-Riki 930 SS hook?
> 
> Btw, welcome to the Fly Fishing forum of Microskiff!


Saw the dai-rikis mentioned in a few fly recipes/forums about 4 years ago and saw them dirt cheap on ebay, so I gave them a try. Not quite so cheap now, but still inexpensive - a great hook. I as;o use the eagle claw 413 jig hook - another inexpensive hook but it sharpens up nice and it good for certain patterns.


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I like knowing that my non stainless hooks will rust away. I harvested a 32" snook this year only because he had a torn jaw and a very old stainless hook in the stomach. The hook still looked great even though the stomach was nothing but a ball of scar tissue. The torn jaw was healed over while the leader was embedded into it. I still have the hook if you would like to see just how long they last in a fish.


I listened to a talk by Roddy Hays and he attributed his relatively high rate of marlin tag recaptures to the stainless hooks he uses. Surgeons use stainless steel when they cut into people and body piercings are made of stainless. Most of the non stainless saltwater hooks have various other metals used as coatings and those metals can be toxic. But to each his own. 

If I can't get a stainless hook I go with black nickel. Instead of Eagle Claw 413 I really like the Mustad 32786BLN jig hooks. Order straight from Do-IT for a great price.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Mustad 3407 for trash fish and gamakatsu sc15 for the reds and snook.


I'm assuming the SS hook was used for bait fishing in that snook. What size was the hook and was it a thick wire hook?


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

From a state of NY study on striped bass mortality:
Factors affecting mortality.— *Hook location* was the only variable that significantly affected the

survival of striped bass (Table 3). Specifically, individuals hooked in the gut had a higher
likelihood of dying than those hooked in the lip (P < 0.05).

Similar study in Maryland:
The *deep hooking mortality rate *for striped bass caught with conventional bait hooks in this study was 53.1%.
The deep hooking mortality rate with non-offset circle hooks was 23.5%. Studies done here in Maryland have consistently shown the deep hooking mortality rate of striped bass caught with conventional bait hooks to be about 50% regardless of temperature or salinity (57.7% in 1995; 41.0% in 1996 and 56.3% in 1997).

A Mass (Monmouth) study encouraged the use of non-SS hooks. I remember a Maryland study of hook materials and mortality in stripped bass concluded that *cadmium*-coated steel hooks were the worst of the lot for causing damage in the study. Lots of stuff out there.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

The standard stainless hook is the Mustad 34007 - it's also one of the few hooks on the market that you can buy in bulk (by the 1000 per size...). No it's not the "best" hook - but it will work just fine for every trout, red, snook, bonefish, or permit you ever encounter (with maybe an exception or two for a really, really big specimen..). No, they're not particularly sharp so you will need to sharpen them (I do that quickly with a couple of passes using a 4" mill bastard file -prefer Nicholson...) before tying with them. The smaller sizes (say less than a #2...) won't need any sharpening at all.... For flies that I'm going to use the last step before tying with them is to mash down the barbs a bit ( I do that with any fly hook that I'm going to be using or handing to one of my anglers...). 

Yes, I use premium hooks for tarpon flies and any situation where we might be working big fish in close quarters. Almost all the "premium" hooks are made in Japan (Tiemco, Owner, Gamakatsu, Daichi, etc.) One of their virtues - being extra strong - comes with a small problem... To get that extra strength -they're a bit brittle (they won't bend - instead they'll break...). The Mustad 34007 will bend before breaking (and you can catch a lot of fish with a hook that's partially bent out...). You can't catch a thing with a hook that's broken off neatly just behind the barb (another of those "ask me how I know" propositions). I won't use Tiemco 811s hooks for just that reason (no matter how sharp they are right from the box...). My go to tarpon fly hook is still an Owner Aki in sizes 1/0 on up - and yes, I'm able to buy them in bulk (I've never had a source for other premium hooks by the thousand). They're razor sharp from the box and pretty darned strong... A secondary hook for tarpon for certain fly patterns is the Tiemco 600sp...

If you don't like stainless hooks - the Mustad 3407 is the plain steel, cadmium plated version of the 34007... Plain steel hooks are always stronger than stainless for anyone worried about hook strength...

For using flies in the salt - I follow this procedure to keep them in good shape... Any fly that's been used never goes back in the box until it's been rinsed off in freshwater and allowed to dry thoroughly, period. Even doing that you always expect that any fly will still have a bit of salt up under the materials where you can't see it. Unless the fly looks almost new - I just don't use it again (whether it's stainless or not...). The only exception are flies that need to be "re-built" after action when I've had to take the materials down almost to the bare shank and replace them... Some of the bugs we use the most may have been "re-cycled" two or three times during their useful life (this particularly applies to clouser style patterns....). Tarpon or other patterns tied up on Owner hooks get a different strategy since they're black nickel coated and certainly not rust-proof.... At the first sign that a hook is showing the slightest amount of rust that fly is taken down to the bits and pieces and a new hook is used to re-build that bug (using old materials only when they're still in good shape and new materials for everything else). That's the only way I can be sure the hook is strong enough... 

Hope this helps - I've only mentioned what I'm currently using to tie with. Over the years we've used a variety of other hook styles - particularly more than 30 years ago - before "premium" hooks were commonly available...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Good article Capt LeMay. I decided to write an article on the subject about 2 days after this thread was launched, for those who had a need to know. After I was done with it, I posted it but had an error stating there was too many characters in it (14k and the limit was 10K). So I saved it on a MS Word doc and was too lazy at that point to reduce it. You mentioned some good points I had as well in it and yours was much easier to read. Mine was mostly "pontification" as permitchaser refers to it as. I figured I'd hold out posting, but did figure I can break it up into 2 replies. But then again, coconutgroves would say it's another screen scroller. Ha!


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Backwater said:


> I'm assuming the SS hook was used for bait fishing in that snook. What size was the hook and was it a thick wire hook?


I forgot about the mangrove twig that was in there as well. The hook is discolored and it still has some nasty crud on it, but absolutely no rust. The water bottle cap is for size reference.


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## Jveiguela (Jun 27, 2015)

excellent write up from all I do appreciate the feedback.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I forgot about the mangrove twig that was in there as well. The hook is discolored and it still has some nasty crud on it, but absolutely no rust. The water bottle cap is for size reference.


I'm pretty sure that is not a SS hook. Looks more like a black chrome plated high carbon circle hook. Again, There are differences in what happened here with this snook. Was most likely allowed to swallow the bait before the guy knew something was on. (lead chunking bait fishermen and more than likely, a novice).

If you are doing it right, fly rod tip to the water and rod tip pointing to the fly, with all the slack out of the line, fly moving towards you and strip strike on the eat, you will catch that fish in the lip or inside the jaw most of the time. If I'm using a stainless steel hook on a fly, most of the time, I have the barb bent down, which, if broken off in the fish, the fish has a good chance of shaking the hook out or grinding it out either with their own mouth or teeth pallets. If, after 2-4 days, the hook hole will wallow out some and tissue fluids and swelling will help push the hook out on top of the shaking and grinding. All hooks will eventually rust out, including SS hooks. Yes, SS will eventually rust.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I forgot about the mangrove twig that was in there as well. The hook is discolored and it still has some nasty crud on it, but absolutely no rust. The water bottle cap is for size reference.


I like your critical thinking on the mortality of our fish. I agree that, in this case, a SS hook was not to blame. If we were all picky like you, the fishery would probably be in a better state. (that circle hook is proof)


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

mwolaver said:


> I like your critical thinking on the mortality of our fish. I agree that, in this case, a SS hook was not to blame. If we were all picky like you, the fishery would probably be in a better state. (that circle hook is proof)


We all can do out part in some little way. 

Learn you must! Do, and pass on what works to others, to help preserve our fishery.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Moore Lyon and Quick said:


> Thanks for the info - nice to know. Other hooks to consider are the Gamakatsu B10s Stinger - another wide gap freshwater hook that works well in salt, and the dai-riki 930 - looks like the 34007 but is sharper out of the box


I and a few friends have gone to that B10s hook for several applications including simply throwing a live Shrimp. Light, strong, just flexible enough.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

billhempel said:


> I and a few friends have gone to that B10s hook for several applications including simply throwing a live Shrimp. Light, strong, just flexible enough.


Bill, I like the B10S's too. They just rust up quick in the salt.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Since this has turned into a general hook discussion.

I was turned onto the Umpqua S506H jig hook recently at a fly tying event.

I was dubious about them but a local guide was adamant that his hook set ratio went up using them. So I tied a lightly weighted shrimp pattern on a #1 and managed to get it in front of a laid up redfish...

View media item 1262
Lets just say I'm going to be tying on them more for my winter redfish patterns.

View media item 1261


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Dan Blanton has been tying on a jig hook for many years with his sar-mul-mac and his whistler fly. He was the one who turned me on to them back about 15yrs ago and recently got a renewed interest. The trick is to buy them with the *60 degree bend* and the eye rotated 90 degrees from normal, for the greatest ability to bump over rocks and bottom debris. I tried for years to find them in Stainless steel. But they are relatively inexpensive in high carbon black chrome, from Umpqua and Orvis.

They do help to roll the hook point inwards, which increases the hook holding ability.


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