# Most Reliable Motor and Year Range?



## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Johnson... they made some seriously good motors back in the day.

Nissan/Tohatsu is know for very reliable motors. Zuks too... 

I will say that this question is like asking who makes the best brand car/truck... Ford Chevy? Your milage may vary... :


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

Oldie Johnson/evinrude 4-35hp 2-strokes

Oldie Suk 2-strokes (commerical)

Now the best reliable motors ever made is Mercury, tohatsu, and Nisaan motors!

Hands down!


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

I second the older Johnson/Evinrude stuff. 

Back when I was younger I had a late-80's-ish Johnson 88spl that went fishing with me several times a week for well over a decade, and the only thing I ever did to it was change the plugs (once) and the water pump/lower unit lube (once). I always mixed my gas/oil properly, and it never let me down once. Started as soon as you hit the key, never hiccuped, never stalled, never replaced one part due to failure or wearing out, other than the water pump impeller. 

Granted, I was not the poster child for routine maintenance back then, but was there a downside?!?! 

I sold it to a commercial crab guy as I wanted to jump up to a 115, and as far as I know it could still be running today. 

Prolly should have kept that motor and just replaced the hulls over the years....

-T


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> Now the best reliable motors ever made is Mercury


Ah, Classic Merc 25... best motor I ever blew up... ;D What was it I said about Ford Chevy again...


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

> I second the older Johnson/Evinrude stuff.
> 
> Back when I was younger I had a late-80's-ish Johnson 88spl that went fishing with me several times a week for well over a decade, and the only thing I ever did to it was change the plugs (once) and the water pump/lower unit lube (once). I always mixed my gas/oil properly, and it never let me down once. Started as soon as you hit the key, never hiccuped, never stalled, never replaced one part due to failure or wearing out, other than the water pump impeller.
> 
> ...


88 johnson (special) is awesome motor, my dad's friend has it since brand new on a 17ft bass boat (stratos) in 1986 I think and now he switched his 88hp spl to a brand new 176 keylargo last year. This motor runs forever!


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

> > Now the best reliable motors ever made is Mercury
> 
> 
> Ah, Classic Merc 25... best motor I ever blew up... ;D What was it I said about Ford Chevy again...


Well....I blew my classic 2003 merc 25hp 2-stroke because I ran straight gas without oil.........don't ask me why....lol.....I forgot to pre mix the oil in the fuel tank.....lmao.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Every marine engine I've ever owned required work sooner or later.
There's just something about heat, rpm's, salt water, electronics,
copper, steel and aluminum, that just don't go together.
Didn't matter model or manufacturer, every engine needed
something expensive done during the time I owned it.
I attribute it to galvanic corrosion and metal fatigue.
Planned obsolescence would be too easy an answer.
Amazing how many parts break 3 weeks after the
warranty expiration date.


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## ko (Jun 9, 2007)

From a life of boating, we've the best success with Tohatsus.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

I'm a huge fan of the 80's JohnnyRudes. Fantastic little engines & easy to maintain.


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

Proper maintenance and proper use trump a manufacturer everytime. 

Any boat engine being mass produced and sold today is good quality. How you take care of it is up to you. How you use it is up to you. How you abuse it is up to you. How you neglect it is up to you. No manufacturer can control those things.

Back in the late 80's, Suzuki's would corrode and all the paint would flake off the second time they were used in saltwater. Not true today. All manufacturers are on a level playing field today, since they all compete so closely in a global market.

Perhaps a better choice for your brand is the local dealer. How good are they? Will you hate going there to get the parts that will need or to have them service your engine? If so, keep shopping.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

coors light..um, wrong subject??


i agree with the ford/chevy comment...

im born and raised on mercury(if you only knew wht one of my 25s have been thru..)...im really a fan of/i really respect  tohatsu/nissan...yamahas are the norm with commercial fisherman(crawfishermen) in south louisiana, they totally abuse their stuff for 3 or 4 seasons and then replace...

i have had experience when i was young with a late 70s-early 80s 15 johnson that ran and ran and ran(like forest gump)...

gotta remember..currently...
most smaller mercs are tohatsus rebadged for merc...some midrange mercs "share" alot of yamaha "technology"...some larger mercs have been yamahas rebadged for merc...

some models of newer 4 stroke jonnyrudes(midrange) are suzukis rebadged..not sure which models off hand...

this list goes on( all i can remember off hand...im a merc man)...youd be surprised...

any 2 stroke engine has some certain level of reliabilty if maintained properly...i would think four stroke being the same....i havent owned a four stroke outboard...

about the only thing i would ever stay away from without a doubt would be the old 70s-80s era chryslers..(pre-force)...i had always heard they came shipped from the factory with a orange "distress" flag... ;D ;D ;D


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

Being an opinionated old man (and a little embarrased about it) I wasn't going to post, but the word crawfish came up so now I must. We had an old homemade crawfish (Florida lobster) boat in the keys. It started out as an inboard with a Studebaker truck engine. When that went bad we tried a 40 HP 2 cylinder 1963 Evinrude engine on her. That wasn't enough so a little later we added a 1964 Evinrude 40 HP 2 cylinder. This worked well enough, but was still underpowered. We ran these engines for 5 long seasons with minor repairs. That meant about 6 hours of fast idle and 1½ hours of trying to keep on plane 4 to 6 days a week depending on weather. This was from the last week in July till after Easter each year. Say about 9 months regular use. We took them out of service about 69 or 70 and replaced them with 55 HP 3 cylinder engines. I kept the 1964 and used it regularly as a recreational boat until 1980 when I sold it on the old 17' Aristocraft runabout. The heads were removed and the carbon scraped off the pistons a time or two and the waterpump was replaced every few years. I also put new bearings and seals for the prop and drive shafts in the lower unit. That is all I can remember doing to that engine.

Ole can be proud of that one.
Frank_S


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I saw a 15 Hp (4 Stroke) Yamaha run with a bad waterpump untill the plastic parts Melted ! The guy put a new water pump and new plastic and to my knowladge It is still going 

Dave


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

No experience really but...I've heard the 1980-87 OMC's were pretty much unbreakable. Well...you know what I mean.

iMacAttack, what years are you referring to when you say "classic" merc 25?


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

merc 25's have only been around since early 80's...84 i think(brown stripe)...before that it was the old round cowl 20(usually marked with a "200")


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

these were pretty tough and unbreakable....basically a detuned 40...


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

> these were pretty tough and unbreakable....basically a detuned 40...


What year is that thing? I don't think I've ever seen one like that...


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

mid 90s to late 90s, maybe till aroun 02 or 03...it was a bad mama skipper...they were very popular/common around here(south la)...we got some marsh refuges that have 25hp limits.....


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> these were pretty tough and unbreakable....basically a detuned 40...


Greenheads in flooded timber...........!!

-T


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/1039558174.html

What the heck is this?

Update: Found this -->

Tomos outboards were built by a rather large moped manufacturer in Yugoslavia -- from the mid-60s to the early 90s. The civil war Yugoslavia went through in the 90s killed outboard production. 

In the late 80s Tomos exported the outboards worldwide. While the design was decent, quality was weak. Since production ceased over 10 years ago, no parts are available. You may have some luck scavenging ignition parts from a Tomos moped, but that's about it. 

If you own a Tomos outboard and it doesn't work, you have two choices: 

1) Make your own part or find a similar part off another device to take its place. 
2) Find another broken Tomos outboard and hope the parts you need are still operable. 

If you really want to do battle with the language and bureaucratic issues you can write them at: 

Tomos Kopar 
Smarska Cestta 4 
6000 Koper, Slovenia 
Phone 0038656684442


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/1039217413.html

Anyone know anything about these? Good motors? Parts easy to find? Easy to convert to tiller?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Never owned a force, these guys have opinions...


http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/010046.html

http://www.outboardrepairs.com/topics/003430.html


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## 1BadPFS (Aug 18, 2007)

the FORCurys had their quality control together and good electronics. they aren't bad. 

The little OMCs and the mercury designed portable motors (read: old) make much more sense to me as far as carburetor layout and general design go. The YAMercurys run good, but I don't really like working on or adjusting them.


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## Unclebob (Dec 10, 2008)

> http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/1039217413.html
> 
> Anyone know anything about these?  Good motors?  Parts easy to find?  Easy to convert to tiller?


I've owned 2 Force outboards. 75 and 40hp. Both were newer, under 200 hours. Both never ran right, ever. I will never own another Force motor.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

I don't think I'm gonna go for it. Zero resale value, questionable reliablitity, etc., etc.

Someone find me an outboard! Trying to convince my dad and gpa to help out the poor college student...


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## 1BadPFS (Aug 18, 2007)

> I don't think I'm gonna go for it.  Zero resale value, questionable reliablitity, etc., etc.
> 
> Someone find me an outboard!  Trying to convince my dad and gpa to help out the poor college student...


What about that 15 rude on that 13' taylor you posted? I'm looking for a hull like that, maybe we could work something out...


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

BadAction you have a pm


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Were the blocks on '83 Johnson 25's painted white from the factory? Anyone know?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Many of the smaller blocks of the early 80's were painted white...


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## 1BadPFS (Aug 18, 2007)

I thought OMC painted all their motors the same as the midsection/cowl? 

hell I cant keep up with them and their colors, I'm gonna paint my 35 phantom black like my mercs. ;D


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Muchos gracias my friends. Just wanted to make sure one of the OMCs I was looking at didn't have a repainted block to hide anything.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

How do I find out what I need to upgrade a mid-80s Merc 18 to a 25hp? I think I figured it out but wanted to double check with the microskiff experts (cough cough...Brett...).

Also, good motors? Mid-80s Merc 18hp short shaft tiller.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Looks like same block, different carbs...
in the carbs looks like it's the jets that are different.

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury_parts/274.cfm


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Did you ever know that you're my hero? Haha

It looks as if the throttle valves are different as well. Does that mean anything? Or is the jet the only important difference?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

You looked harder than I did,
Your project, so you get to do the real research.

Treat it like a double column ledger
where are the numbers that don't match?
Print out the parts lists and highlight the non-matching parts,
then tally the cost to modify.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Haha it's funny you said the double column ledger thing because that's exactly what I did before you said that.

The throttle valves are different along with the jet. Would those need to be replaced as well?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Looks like some of those valves are NLA
(no longer available)
Might be possible to buy a used carb at a salvage supply store
then rebuild with a carb kit.


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

i bought a used, but working good carb for a 25 off ebay.... it was very reasonably priced..... it came with the reed cage assembly and valves.... i could sell you the reed assymbly for 10$ and you could find a carb on ebay for less than 50$ im sure


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

same motor...18, probably labeled a 18xd, turned into the 20 in later years...20 and 25 are same powerhead...


do you have the 18??  or are you just researching to see if you want to get it??    i know youve looked at a few diffrent possibilities already..im asking because i have a mid  80's(prob 84-85, brown stripe) 25 laying around , that i had picked up for a parts motor...it is a complete motor(remote steer, short shaft), ran when stored a few years ago(it would need serious tlc to get right)....i wont get rid of JUST a carb, though, and it wont be free...lol...ive hung on to it, bc the lower unit alone is couple hundred bucks..but i know youre pretty desperate for an engine...its technically not for sale....but....any further discussion, we might be better with pm...pm if youre interested...

btw...do not confuse with my other posts...this motor i speak of is NOT the brown stripe 25 that i restored...i had picked this one up cheap, in a deal for a trailer, that "came with a free boat and motor", but me being sort of a 2 smoke 25 merc fanatic( i have 3 or 4).......well, you get the idea..lol


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm checking to see if it's something I would want to get myself into. Found one in GREAT shape with low hours. 18hp is just not enough for the J16, though. Which is why I would want to boost it to the 25.

Are these good motors? Is it going to last me (with proper care and maintenance of course) a good 5+ years hopefully trouble free?


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

well....you have to remember, youre talking about a motor thats already 20+ years old...how well was it maintained and cared for in the last 20+ years would determine another 5 years or not....

me personally, well...i wont give that opinion again....

"trouble-free"??   abosolutely trouble-free??  no


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Salt water, electricity, dissimilar metals, heat, vibrations...
trouble free does not exist!


Oh yeah, and now E-10 fuel which is more like E-however much we feel like today.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

shoot, my 04 25 aint even trouble free....its a mercury, and its 2 stroke....cold natured when not cranked for a while, but run like a scalded dawg once running... 

mine does have some very hard use under its belt, however...it has pumped mud, it runs an oversize prop, it eats hydrilla like no tomorrow, ill stop there...


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> its a mercury, and its 2 stroke....
> cold natured when not cranked for a while,
> but run like a scalded dawg once running...
> mine does have some very hard use under its belt,
> ...


'otter put that reply in the "Braggin' Post"...


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Haha. You know what I meant by trouble free...I know we fish in harsh environments.

Marshman this was obviously well maintained. It's also pretty obvious that it wasn't used in salt water. From the pictures at least.

I was just curious as to whether or not these we solid, well built motors like the similar year-range OMCs.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

theres no guarantees in any motor....any 2 stroke can be considered a timebomb....

but, if it appears well maintained, lower unit has good fluid, no leaky seals, no sloppy orange rtv oozing out(indicating a piss-poor lower unit job), good compression on both cylinders, starts easily  WITHOUT starting fluid( starting fluid is the devil for marine 2 strokes), then id say youd have something to work with....

now...how much for the motor, how much for the parts to mod it, how much will it cost to mod it?? (are you able to disassemble, and reassemble a carb and trouble shoot to adjust idle and timing)where you ending up at??   

you will want to go ahead and replace impeller while you going thru it, spark plugs, new inline filter, new fuel line....after all that , at the minimum for a 20 yr old engine,  id say you can be ok....


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

i promise, i have not been trying to discourage you....heck id even offer to build the engine for you, like i said i have the hard parts, would have to buy the soft parts....but i live quite aways from you, and i wouldnt have the time to do the work, anyhow....

just gotta remember the big picture....dont get wrapped in a "restore" and have more into it than what you could buy a good motor for...


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Well I spoke with AFA Marine today (great guy...always very helpful) about the motor, if he had the parts, etc. He said they are decent motors but put it to me plain and simple. ANYTHING pre-1990ish...go with Johnson/Evinrude. I may just do that...

He also said he doesn't like "beefing up" motors and to just leave it as it is. It would likely be around $150 or so (give or take) to make it a 25 if I got the parts from a used parts dealer. He said I probably wouldn't even notice the difference but I'm sure with 3-4 people in the boat I would.

So I just gotta keep looking...

And marshman don't sweat it. I appreciate your input and your offers.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok...I know you all hate my repeated questioning...but...you're all I got.

1993 Yamaha 30hp short shaft tiller?  Any good?

Update: Owner said pre-impeller replacement, lower unit oil was good. Post-replacement and test, oil was milky. Ignore the impeller replacement situation (can't trust what everyone says) and what could be the possible causes of this water intrusion? And possible solutions?

Also, got a call for my want ad. 1989 Evinrude 30. Owner said his wife complained about motor being hard to start, not starting, etc. Him and a friend (Marine Max mechanic I believe) then took off the powerhead, "shaved" it (?), replaced rings, and repainted it. Then, same problem. He then noticed that if you cover up the carb port and start it, it works fine. Any ideas? He's asking $500 and said it will definitely need a sand and repaint (sun damage I guess).


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