# A few notes on earlier saltwater fly reels 40's-80's



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Saltwater use reels; (I also posted it in "In the Beginning...)

From the 40's through the 80's; Pflueger 1495, 1495 1/2 and 1498 Medalists. In the eighties they were modified with Herman Voss components such as solid spools, "Pflueger Foot" (a reel foot that was copied from the Finnor Wedding Cake), a counterbalance spool wieght, a replacement metal drag plate in lieu of the cheap plastic one's of the time, and much more. Herman is a great guy. Un-modified Pflueger Medalist reels show up in many old photo's from the 50's.

During the 60's through mid 80's there were a few English reels that I played with. Hardy Marquis in the form of the Scientific Anglers System reels. These were excellent and light, just keep them well washed down. The Beaudex and Landex fly reels (one was direct drive, the other anti-reverse), A Rogue with a lever that could be moved with your reel hand forefinger to increase the drag. Oh the memories are flooding back now (tears).

In the seventies; Pflueger Supreme 577 and 578 fly reels and the Shakespeare equivalents were the reels for offshore Amberjacks and others of that ilk. Good drags, good spools, plus the Supreme had that side mounted flip switch for stripping line out without the drag engaged, flip it back to drag. These were anti-reverse reels and that switch basically disengaged the anti-reverse. The frame was from a Medalist but the rest of it was quite decently made.

Orvis CFO's were used for Bones and were good backcountry click reels. Just keep them washed down. ("The World's Finest" as Orvis was always saying).

I had Seamasters in Mark II, III and IV. Absolutely the finest reel made for the time, although I think surpassed by todays technology. (Mark series may come back again in a new form. Robbie are you listening?).

Fin-Nor Wedding Cakes were also previlent for a long time by those that could afford one. I had one that Al Pflueger had owned in the form of a number one size. Later models sort of sucked and Fin-Nor slowly went downhill.

Also had a Bogdan Salmon which I traded to Capt. McChristian for the Seamaster Mark II plus a little money ($100). I used it for Bone's a few times but it felt like sacrilege. That reel was very high quality and valuable but "To many parts to go wrong" per Capt. Mac. Stan Bogdan made those parts beautifully. He was also as hard to get a reel from as Mac was. Although as an aside, I could get Seamasters in about two to three weeks. My wife's Father used to work at the Miami Water Board with Mac's Wife. A very good "in". I actually used to visit with Mac at his early 1980's shop during some of my lunch hours. We had some pretty intense engineering discussions and learned a good bit from him. The engineering office I worked at was fairly close by (H J Ross Assoc. was on Brickell Ave at the entrance to the Rickenbacker over to Key Biscayne).

Personaly, I go Tibor, Ross BG series, Islanders in LA and LX series are hugely underrated beautifully built reels (I have two), some Orvis especially Mid Arbor models, Certain Fin-Nors like the FinNite series 10+ now discontinued. Old Fenwick World Class in the smallest sizes were hidden gems (gold frame, black spool). Also BPS has some hidden goodies if you closely check them out. I have a CV2 7-8 on eBay now that is a great reel but I replaced with an Orvis Mid Arbor.


----------



## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

thanks for the info...But sadly not all of us can afford $300-$900 reels (the Islanders you recommended).. As stated many times over, I'm going to put my $60 dollar Okuma SLV's through rigorous testing.


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm sorry if you feel that I did not answer your inquiry the way you wanted it done. I think I did. I never paid the money amounts like you suggest for those reels. I am dilligent in getting the best purchase prices for the reels that I have or had. The last Tibor Everglades was well under $300 used. The Islanders were also under $300. I am saying that I happen to be a very good shopper and others can do it too. One of the points you missed were all the reels I mentioned from the past. They all worked well and could be found today if you cared to for little money. You want something from the moment and that's fine, but not really inexpensive. There is nothing wrong with your choice of Okuma's. I think you're being a bit to testy about what others happen to have. Trust me, what I wrote was a testament to the useful reels of the past. Not who has the greatest. I write a lot about the histoy of light tackle saltwater fishing and enjoy doing so. Hopefully others can learn how it was and enjoy the history. Good luck on your quest.


----------



## galleta_loco (Sep 2, 2007)

I kindly partial to the old stuff myself here is part of my quiver.I fish Medalist 1496 1/2 , 1495, Martin mg7/5s and an old Duncan Briggs in the salt 







My old Fenwick FF 85 with the Martin MG 7/5s


----------



## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

no no no! you've got me all wrong. I completely follow where you where coming from in relation to the equipment of decades past. My point was only that the two Islanders RETAIL at the prices stated above. And I sure hope I can find an Tibor everglades for under $300! that would be a hell of a find. And more over, my only question about older reels(and it relates to a current market) is actually from another thread! 

I have rephrased it here: 

Who make Bass proshops Gold Cup branded fly reels? I'm nearly sure it's outsourced, at first I thought it was Penn but after looking at more pictures I don't see evidence my original thoughts.


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

galleta_loco 
A great photo of some classics. thanks!

Just click on this and go down to some old cool saltwater info; Go to page 87, then go back through the magazine pages. Wow! What a reminder of how it was not to long back.
http://books.google.com/books?id=WtQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=pflueger+supreme+577+578+fly+reel&source=bl&ots=OHAQPf65BT&sig=GNH91-4ia56A6qtAAxinYFtlQKk&hl=en&ei=2oWBS_DqM5SWtgfJ-Lj1Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=pflueger%20supreme%20577%20578%20fly%20reel&f=false


----------



## cal1320 (Jun 6, 2007)

PG 145-Cool tip on squaring the spindles when making a trailer axle.
Pg 167 has an AC/DC calculator for only $59.99. Wow. What a bargin!


----------



## galleta_loco (Sep 2, 2007)

Byfly thanks for the link there are some cool old equipment ads also.


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

I swear that some of those small back of the magazine ads have not changed in 35 years, just updated prices. Bob Stearns that wrote the fly article is still writing too.


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Let me add another great line of reels, the Abel's. Right now on eBay one can find the early Abel No. 2 Big Games for little, under $200. They are also selling some new ones for the nostalgia but for much bigger money. Home in on earlier used Big Game sizes and find a true bargain. I have two at present. You cannot kill them. Just keep them clean and the drag cork properly lubed. You'll just have to suffer with a heavier reel and a standard arbor. Oh woe is me, tsk, tsk! The horror of it.


----------



## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

_STANDARD ARBOR, HEAVIER REEL_ Oh no, how could anyone ever land a SALTWATER fish on that!!! J/K ;D ;D ;D 

I actually rather like the Abel big game, might even track one down for the next rod I've been pondering.. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

I found "limited edition" Abel Big Game No. 2's on Red Truck Fly Fishing for $300.  Write up says:

"In 1988 Abel Automatics was born. Their goal was to create the best fly reel on the planet, and since then, they have done just that. In 2008, to commemorate their 20th anniversary, they produced a limited run of the first model fly reel they ever produced, the Abel No. 2. This non ported, high-gloss black reel is nothing short of a work of art! On the back of every Abel Limited Edition 20th Anniversary Fly Reel is an Abel emblem with their 20th anniversary banner below the drag knob. Each reel has the production number engraved into the reel seat. This limited edition reel is perfect for any Abel enthusiast!

The Abel No. 2 is designed to hold a seven or eight weight line which makes this reel perfect for steelhead, schoolie stripers, small salmon, and bonefish. Its large surface area cork disc-draw bar drag provides unparalleled smoothness and almost infinite adjustablity. If you want a reel that is beautiful and functional, check out the No. 2 fly reel by Abel."

I'm awfully tempted!  ;D And they are made in the USA! Big plus.


----------



## skinnywater3 (Feb 8, 2009)

If you don't mind the extra weight those are great reels. The super series is gunna be a lot light but those No. 2's are a piece of history [smiley=toast.gif]


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

I hardly notice the extra wieght at all. Actually I think that it is simply the evolution of fly tackle components to be lighter through use of new technology. I really didn't ask for it, it's just simply available over time. So many harp on the "balance" of the rod and reel and how it matters SO MUCH. They never seem to think much about how it balances with a line out of the tip and a fly tied on (and that really doesn't mean much either), plus twenty feet of fly line dragging in the water beside the skiff. The only time I think about wieght is when I stand on the casting deck of a skiff for an hour straight holding the outfit the whole time. I'd simply rather have a outfit that casts well through matching components and suits my style of casting. I don't believe the manufacturers hype until I have tried it and feel it is what I want for me. As an example, I tried a Sage XI3 rod versus my Sage XI2. I preferred the XI2 because it suits me, not because they say one is so much better. The XI3 is much faster and there is little if any wait on the backcast. I didn't like it. Doesn't mean the XI3 is better, just a new choice.


----------



## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

> So many harp on the "balance" of the rod and reel and how it matters SO MUCH. They never seem to think much about how it balances with a line out of the tip and a fly tied on (and that really doesn't mean much either), plus twenty feet of fly line dragging in the water beside the skiff. The only time I think about wieght is when I stand on the casting deck of a skiff for an hour straight holding the outfit the whole time. I'd simply rather have a outfit that casts well through matching components and suits my style of casting.


I completely agree, and on that note, I've noticed it's small line weight and spey guys who jump on the balance beam more than saltwater throwers.


----------



## Yoreese (Oct 15, 2009)

I really like the Abel's and Islanders. I currently only own Tibor and get harassed about them being boat anchors! :

But who cares I like them. [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


----------



## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

thanks Bill, great thread, really rekindles some old memories. Not sure how I missed it either, I guess I'll have to dig deeper into the threads that started during hunting season. 

ditto on the Abels, first rate reels since their inception. Looking at this thread I wish I would have kept all my old reels too. Every time I upgraded I either sold or gave the old ones away  :-[  

Between my family and friends though, someone had one brand/model or another that we shared on the casting deck, Pates tarpon & bonefish as well as the Abel big games you mentioned and then more recently the Tibor's once Ted started making them. So I was lucky enough to fish with a bunch of good stuff back then regardless of whether it was my personal reel or not. About the only exception is the Seamaster, never managed to fish one of those.

I also agree the newer reels that succeeded the greats of that era are generally better reels, at least from a lighter, stronger standpoint. Some of the newer drag systems are interesting too, but cork is still as good as ever and I'm not convinced has been dethroned yet.  

The top-end reel prices border on insane these days for sure as well, but in most cases you do get what you pay for. Although I think the practical differences become exponentially less profound as the retail prices pass the $250-$300 mark. As you said though, being frugal and patient enough to look for close-outs or used gear is wise if you can do it. The original Tibors are a great example where its almost as cost effective to buy another reel vs a spare spool. So let the front of the pack feast on the QC's and the rest of us revel in the spoils left behind.  

Fortunately for most family guys on a budget, including me, the modest priced entry reels that have come out during the last several years are really darn good and get the job done fine with reasonable care.


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Well found another super bargain in the way of an Islander LA4.5 and two spare spools for under $350. This will be set up for 11-12wt and 300 yards of 30lb backing. The reel and both spools all came with backing and Rio fly lines in good shape. I'll thoroughly check the lines out, clean them and hopefully they are OK. Just takes waiting, watching and speaking with the owner for a bit. Doesn't mean everything was perfect. The reel body needs a new bearing and the cork drag washer was shot. Just got to order the parts from Islander, install and I have a great reel and about $1,300 of original cost for little.


----------



## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

wow, great deal.   

One of the tarpon videos I posted here a while back I was using an Islander, might have been the same model you picked up, maybe JRH will chime in and update me on that. Although I was teasing him on how it appeared to hold the line on the spool really well, I liked the reel a lot, very smooth drag and felt solid. He had it on a 10wt, Sage Xi2 I think...  :-/ Anyway, about the only thing I didn't like was he had the handle on the wrong side and the fact that it was made in Canada.  ;D


----------



## CatchBravo (Nov 21, 2009)

Do what my grand[arents do!! Go garage sailing! ;D


> no no no! you've got me all wrong. I completely follow where you where coming from in relation to the equipment of decades past.  My point was only that the two Islanders RETAIL at the prices stated above. And I sure hope I can find an Tibor everglades for under $300! that would be a hell of a find. And more over, my only question about older reels(and it relates to a current market) is actually from another thread!
> 
> I have rephrased it here:
> 
> Who make Bass proshops Gold Cup branded fly reels? I'm nearly sure it's outsourced, at first I thought it was Penn but after looking at more pictures I don't see evidence my original thoughts.


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

I'll be adding photo's of two old timer quality fly reels I purchased on eBay as soon as the second one is delivered. First one is a Shakespeare Purist anti-reverse saltwater reel in the 1898 series which was the Tarpon size. The reel was new in the original Shakespeare pouch with tool and papers. Great reel to go with my old Scientific Anglers Great Equalizer 12wt fiberglass fly rod built by John Emory when at J. Lee Cuddy's in Miami. The other that is on the way is a Pflueger Supreme 578 anti-reverse saltwater fly reel in 95% condition with papers. Both of these were the reels to have back in the sixties and seventies if you couldn't afford a Seamaster or Fin-nor. They were excellent for offshore fish like Amberjack, Cuda, Dolphin, etc. They made a smaller size 577 too.


----------

