# Using Power Pole As An Anchor Light



## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

When the power pole is deployed those lights will be less than one meter above your side lights as required by the USCG 

Powerboats under 12 meters (39.4 feet) in length must have separate or combined red and green sidelights covering 112.5 degrees and visible for 1 nautical mile. The white masthead *light* must cover 225 degrees, be 1 meter above the sidelights and be visible for 2 nautical miles


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## anzuelo (Feb 28, 2017)

While that set up may work while underway, if you have the Power Pole deployed, the light will be too low to be legal. By Federal boating laws, your stern/anchor light should be at least one meter above the red/green navigation lights. also, when the pole is in the down position, the motor or people on board could block the anchor light from being seen from certain angles. 

I see a lot of navigation light issues as a Coast Guard Auxiliary Vessel Examiner.


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## anzuelo (Feb 28, 2017)

Redchaser, 

Didn't see your reply before I posted mine. Lots of boaters out there that are unaware of the boating laws. I use the Vessel Examination process as a way to give a mini boating course..

I only pass about ten percent of the boats I inspect. A lot of the items are just not enforced. Most times I have been stopped, all I have been asked to produce is my registration card and adequate life jackets. Now if you don't have those items and law enforcement wants to check all safety requirements, the ticket cost can get high quickly..


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

This topic came up a while back on another forum. Interestingly, all of the responses expressed concern about citations, but none were concerned about safety.


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## anzuelo (Feb 28, 2017)

hipshot, 

The safety issue is that if the light is too low, it can be blocked by the motor or a person standing on deck.

I see this frequently on bay boats that have the red/green lights mounted on the console and the white all-around light mounted on the motor cowling. People standing on deck can block the lights from being seen by another vessel. THAT is a safety issue.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Absolutely. And a white 360* light on a deployed power pole could be easily obscured also.


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## Capt. Moose (Dec 12, 2015)

Get a navisafe light and a GoPro mount. Done
http://www.navisafe.com/


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

anzuelo said:


> The safety issue is that if the light is too low, it can be blocked by the motor or a person standing on deck.


Not disagreeing with you but there isn't a skiff on the water that has a white light that is high enough to not be blocked by someone standing on deck. There also needs to be a distinction made between a masthead light and an anchor light and how each one applies. Boats under 40 feet do not need a masthead. A single 360 degree light is allowed.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

hipshot said:


> This topic came up a while back on another forum. Interestingly, all of the responses expressed concern about citations, but none were concerned about safety.


It's always about tickets. It's not like they drag you off the water for safety violations. They will let your unsafe ass stay out there as long as you pa-up-sucker. I was written up for not having flares and they let me go fishing anyway.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

anzuelo said:


> Redchaser,
> 
> Didn't see your reply before I posted mine. Lots of boaters out there that are unaware of the boating laws. I use the Vessel Examination process as a way to give a mini boating course..
> 
> I only pass about ten percent of the boats I inspect. A lot of the items are just not enforced. Most times I have been stopped, all I have been asked to produce is my registration card and adequate life jackets. Now if you don't have those items and law enforcement wants to check all safety requirements, the ticket cost can get high quickly..


I seem to recall a requirement that the red/green lights be above the rub rail. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't the "shark eye" style nav lights be non-compliant?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

bryson said:


> I seem to recall a requirement that the red/green lights be above the rub rail. Is this correct?


No.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

There is no mystery, look up USCG regulations and it’s there in black and white. No need to take anyone’s word for it.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

jmrodandgun said:


> It's always about tickets. It's not like they drag you off the water for safety violations. They will let your unsafe ass stay out there as long as you pa-up-sucker. I was written up for not having flares and they let me go fishing anyway.


It all depends on where you are. Different courts, different prosecutors' offices, and different law enforcement administrations set policies on such matters. When I worked in a boat I took safety violations off the water. I was told that it's "not politically correct to mess with Texans while they're recreating". When I worked the street I towed vehicles for no driver's license if no licensed driver was available. The DA said we had to cite them and let them go. Now that's changed again, and I'm sure it's not for the last time. But we gotta follow orders......

My point was that for far too many people, safety concerns never occur to them; they are only concerned about citations.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

The word is "obscured" view.
I do not know why the USCG allow the console nav. lights and that was suppose to change.Also, the 360 stern lights on top of the cowling are not legal.
The rule of thumb in fl. was you get sent to the nearest boat ramp and/or escorted to same for lights and pfds.

I use to tell folks to carry extra fuses,bulbs and the appropriate color cylume
light sticks and they better be heading back to shore and not going fishing when they get stopped for using the sticks or a ticket would be in order.

No excuses cause folks fib their asses off.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Direct from USCG









As stated above the rules are selectively enforced and some of the "ideas" are indeed non-compliant.

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/5p/CG-5PC/INV/Alerts/1015.pdf




bryson said:


> I seem to recall a requirement that the red/green lights be above the rub rail. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't the "shark eye" style nav lights be non-compliant?


You are correct - there is wrong information posted above.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/CG_NRHB_20151231.pdf


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

topnative2 said:


> the 360 stern lights on top of the cowling are not legal.


How so?


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

They must be at least one meter above the sidelights, and they must be visible for 360 degrees.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

hipshot said:


> They must be at least one meter above the sidelights, and they must be visible for 360 degrees.


Source?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

DuckNut said:


> there is wrong information posted above.


Can you be more specific?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

jmrodandgun said:


> Can you be more specific?


Read post #16 and follow links if necessary.

The red/green lights are to be "unbroken"


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

jmrodandgun said:


> Source?


See post #21


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

DuckNut said:


> Read post #16 and follow links if necessary.
> 
> The red/green lights are to be "unbroken"


What? Read it again. I don't understand how you are applying this unbroken light rule. Unbroken only means as you travel along the arc nothing obstructs the light. My original question was a source on the requirement of red/green navigation lights to be displayed above the rub rail on a skiff.

(b) Sidelights means a green light on the starboard side and a red light on the port side each showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 112.5° and so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to 22.5° abaft the beam on its respective side. In a vessel of less than 20 m in length the sidelights may be combined in one lantern carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

jmrodandgun said:


> What? Read it again.
> 
> (b) Sidelights means a green light on the starboard side and a red light on the port side each showing an *unbroken* light over an arc of the horizon of 112.5° and so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to 22.5° abaft the beam on its respective side. In a vessel of less than 20 m in length the sidelights may be combined in one lantern carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel.


You answered your own question


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

DuckNut said:


> You answered your own question


I think we are talking about two different things. I'm asking what your source is that requires nav lights to be place above the rub rail.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

jmrodandgun said:


> I think we are talking about two different things. I'm asking what your source is that requires nav lights to be place above the rub rail.


JM, I was flashing back to the console mounted sharkeye lights.

"1. Definition The term height above the hull means height above the uppermost continuous deck. This height shall be measured from the position vertically beneath the location of the light."

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/5p/CG-5PC/INV/Alerts/0219.pdf

"(d) The masthead light, or the _*all-round light*_ described in Rule 23(d)(§ 83.23(d) of this chapter), of a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall be carried at least one meter higher than the sidelights."


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

jmrodandgun said:


> How so?


Usually, it is the height issue and I should have been more specific on the issue ....1meter/39"


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

topnative2 said:


> Usually, it is the height issue and I should have been more specific on the issue ....1meter/39"


Yes. I don't believe that they are not legal, I believe the 3" post causes them to be non conforming.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

DuckNut said:


> Yes. I don't believe that they are not legal, I believe the 3" post causes them to be non conforming.


Technically, a 360dg is an anchor light and not a "navigation" only when anchored. The 360dg light being used as a nav. light is under one of the exceptions for vessel size...under 26'?

Otherwise, a midship light of 180 dg shining forward and similar light on the stern shining aft is required....*don't hold me to the degrees 

I seem to remember an all round white masthead light and a 220dg stern light on something ............CRS


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

I think this thread is running in several different directions. Hopefully, I can clarify some things here. 

First, a masthead and stern light combination won’t work on our boats. The mast would be in the way. So the law permits us to display a white 360 degree light aft. It serves as part of the navigation lights (required when underway, which is defined as not at anchor, not aground, and not made fast to shore) at night or in periods of restricted visibility — heavy rain, fog, etc. — and also serves alone as the anchor light. On our boats it must be 
at least one meter above the sidelights. It must also be visible from 360 degrees.

I can find nothing in the Rules which prohibits sidelights mounted below the rub rail. If anyone can point out such a regulation, please direct me to it — I don’t want to give wrong advice. On our class vessel the sidelights may be separate units or an integrated unit. 

The lights on a vessel tell other vessels what class vessel you are. If properly displayed, they also reveal your speed and course to other traffic. This is essential for compliance with the Rules for both privileged and burdened vessels. We share the water with all classes of pleasure and commercial vessels from every nation in the world; the Rules of Navigation were designed to keep EVERYONE on the same page from a safety standpoint.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

mo' better not to get run over!


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

topnative2 said:


> mo' better not to get run over!


Amen, brother! I worked a shit ton of wrecks when I worked in a boat. The predominant factors were lights and alcohol.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

And Aggravated DWHUA.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

hipshot said:


> Amen, brother! I worked a shit ton of wrecks when I worked in a boat. The predominant factors were lights and alcohol.


Yup! but don't forget excessive speed and improper lookout.........people run around at night like it is day time.........and smack the the markers


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

And the Rules also require that the operator maintain a lookout at all times, and operate at a speed where one can come to a stop within the assured safe distance ahead.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I use drift socks to slow her down like a dragster parachute.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

jmrodandgun, my apologies. You requested the source for the information I posted; it’s all in the Rules of Navigation. The specs for lights can be found in Annex I. My computer is tango uniform and I hate typing on this infernal iPhone. I just forgot........ Sorry


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

hipshot said:


> I think this thread is running in several different directions. Hopefully, I can clarify some things here.
> 
> I can find nothing in the Rules which prohibits sidelights mounted below the rub rail. If anyone can point out such a regulation, please direct me to it — I don’t want to give wrong advice. On our class vessel the sidelights may be separate units or an integrated unit.


There is no specific rule prohibiting this for inland waters. However, the rules to conform don't lend to placing them in that area. Colregs specifically prohibit it outside inland waters.

https://www.boatsafe.com/navigation-lights-sidelights/


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## Ocala B2 Skiff (Apr 9, 2016)

You can use a Russell Marine Products (RMP) anchor light. We have used these for years now and they work well and hold up well. Gives you a 360 light on the top of your power pole.

https://www.russellmarineproducts.com/power-pole-s/561.htm


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Ocala B2 Skiff said:


> You can use a Russell Marine Products (RMP) anchor light. We have used these for years now and they work well and hold up well. Gives you a 360 light on the top of your power pole.
> 
> https://www.russellmarineproducts.com/power-pole-s/561.htm


Are these lights USCG approved? Did not see it stated on their website.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Ocala B2 Skiff said:


> You can use a Russell Marine Products (RMP) anchor light. We have used these for years now and they work well and hold up well. Gives you a 360 light on the top of your power pole.
> 
> https://www.russellmarineproducts.com/power-pole-s/561.htm


What do you have when the power pole is deployed?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

hipshot said:


> What do you have when the power pole is deployed?


An underwater fishing light.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

This was the premise of the thread. Just because someone make a product and it looks cool doesn't make it legal to use.

Every product which is approved by the USCG will proudly bear the approval stamp as it costs a lot of money to get approved. Others will just tell you how cool their product is.

Legal is legal and if not it is illegal. And yes there are builders and merchants selling/using/promoting illegal products.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Interestingly, zooming in on the box this product comes packaged in, one sees the claim that this product “exceeds Coast Guard regulations”. 

On the face of it, one might easily conclude that this company is attempting to deceive potential purchasers into believing that the product is safe to use, and is approved by the USCG. Thank you, Ocala B2 skiff, for exposing these charlatans. They’ll never receive a penny of my money.


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