# Blind Casting



## Sethsawyer (Apr 5, 2019)

I use a stakeout pole to stop the boat then fly cast. Yes, I blindcast if I think there are fish around or a spot looks super fishy. I also use a stripping basket gheenoes just seem to have crap that catches your fly line. Hip stripping basket let’s me move around the boat. Get out and wade and overall just not deal with line management as much. You gotta make sure to stretch your line before using one and practice with it a lot before you fish with it.


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## Backflow (Nov 20, 2019)

I definitely was drifting at a pretty good rate, I will have to try just posting in that spot.I have a small anchor I can toss over. I've been meaning to get the TM mount with the stake out addon. Unfortunately the mud and critters in that area prevent , at least myself, from wading. I can see how the Gheenoe can be a challenge with line management, luckily for me it has not been too bad.I keep my classic open and clean, free of snag areas. I take a light spin rod which I tuck under one of the sides of the classic. Although my experiences are limited , I prefer a line lair type mat vs the Basket. They each serve their purposes dependent upon conditions.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Backflow said:


> Does anyone here blind cast on the fly for red fish in a similar/any scenario?


Yes

If you set yourself up around 40’ from the target zone you can cast 40’, fish it 10’, and recast back to 40’. This is especially effective in stained or muddy water when hungry redfish are attracted to the fly hitting the water, rather than fleeing when they see it coming in.


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## Backflow (Nov 20, 2019)

MariettaMike said:


> Yes
> 
> If you set yourself up around 40’ from the target zone you can cast 40’, fish it 10’, and recast back to 40’. This is especially effective in stained or muddy water when hungry redfish are attracted to the fly hitting the water, rather than fleeing when they see it coming in.


Definitely giving it a whirl next time I find myself in the situation, thank you


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## BrownDog (Jun 22, 2019)

I will blind cast while fishing solo on fly especially down creeks or along banks.
The easiest way I have come up with is to start up current and drift down stopping every so often with the power pole remotely from my lanyard on the bow.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

I fished out of a gheenoe one time, didn’t seem too bad for snagging loose fly line. That day, it was one fly fishing in the bow and one poling. I don’t see why you couldn’t stake out in it, though, especially if it’s muddy and shallow. 

If you can stake out, that will keep you on a structure that is showing good sign. Trying to manage the drift of the boat and fly casting at the same time can be pretty daunting. 

But, I do a lot of fly fishing to fish sign or on structures, sight fishing isn’t always doable in every spot with the wind and water not being so cooperative. 

Fly fishing structures can be incredibly productive. Often, you can dial in a distance that’s pretty perfect for fly fishing to where you cast, strip/drift a pattern for several feet in the zone and then pick up the fly line and repeat. When you can sort of nail the perfect distance, fly fishing is less work than the others as you don’t have to reel, between casts, in all the line if the fish doesn’t eat. 

I’m always trying to get a read on bait behavior to see if they are doing anything that’s pointing to predators nearby. Finger sized mullet hugging tight to shallow shell or a shallow bar often means there’s something pushing them up there. Then it’s a matter of casting along the edge of the reef or bar where the predators are hanging. 

Focus on water moving over or around hard structures like reef of bulkheads or bars. Fish edges of drop offs, bringing the pattern from shallow water and let it fall into the deeper water. Water moving around little islands, edges in general are typically good. 

Sometimes the wind or current is just right for a drift along a good area and then take advantage of that. 

Water is often murky where I fish, but don’t discount the fish’s ability to locate the fly in murky water. Fish have spider like senses and will locate and eat a well presented pattern in water that’s under a foot of visibility. You can’t smell the stuff a dog can, but it doesn’t mean the dog isn’t keying on something in the air. It’s the same with fish, they have senses that are far above our abilities.


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## Backflow (Nov 20, 2019)

karstopo said:


> When you can sort of nail the perfect distance, fly fishing is less work than the others as you don’t have to reel, between casts, in all the line if the fish doesn’t eat.





karstopo said:


> Water is often murky where I fish, but don’t discount the fish’s ability to locate the fly in murky water. Fish have spider like senses and will locate and eat a well presented pattern in water that’s under a foot of visibility.


Those are a couple of great points, among a ton of awesome information, thanks!


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## Backflow (Nov 20, 2019)

BrownDog said:


> I will blind cast while fishing solo on fly especially down creeks or along banks.
> The easiest way I have come up with is to start up current and drift down stopping every so often with the power pole remotely from my lanyard on the bow.


In the backcountry Id find this style ideal as well, although I never tried, and minus the power pole. Drifting and casting that way, from upcurrent ,down,must make it like a lazy river ride. I am going to have to start blind casting mangroves and take the fly rod off the mental pedestal I have had it on.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

I'll be the contradictory one here. It's gotta be pretty bad for me to consistently blind cast. Our water is often muddy and visibility is limited to 20-30 ft from the boat. I've had enough instances where I see shrimp or baitfish popping on the surface and made a blind cast in the area, only to cast to the tail of the fish or lined it right over its back. Had I waited a few more seconds, the fish would have come into view, I could have picked out which way the fish was facing, and I could have put the fly where it needed to be. 

I've done the same when I could see the silhouette of the fish and cast to the wrong end. I now wait the extra second or two until I can discern which is the eating end, and which end is the motor end.


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## Backflow (Nov 20, 2019)




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## Snakesurf (Jun 18, 2019)

Same here as far as blind casting. If the water looks good, blind cast it. You are going to catch more fish with the line in the water than out of it. Always cast those suspect waters were bait fish / shrimp are jumping, points, outflows edges of grass and structure or bottom contours. For murky water use darker flies and light colored flies or flies that blend in with the environment colors when it is clear. Really the same with any artificial lure. Tips for what colors to start with; Dark colors for cloudy skies and murky waters and light colors for clear skies and clear water.


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## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

I do blindcast when water is off color to educated guess areas like the tip of a grass island, a protected cove or within the opening of a drain. Reds love to hang in there. If water has visibility within 20-30’, I will refrain to blind cast to these areas as chance has it you will cast over a fish and spook a school


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

most of my Flyfishing in the everglades and ten thousand area is blind casting. Pretty much the same thing as you would do while spin fishing, I tend to be looking for sight targets with about 30 percent of my Bain and fishing with the other 70. When things are slow I just go for snook along the edges of the mangroves, if you have a weed free fly its pretty easy I just strip out maybe 15 feet from the mangroves and recast in one back cast.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I blind cast a lot. If I see something that looks fishy, I'm casting at it. We've had a lot of dirty water and overcast skies the last few trips I've made so there was little actual sight casting. Occasionally the fish would show a tail or a small push but mostly just sit there until the boat spooked them. So, we blind cast a lot, just in case. I also just like to cast so there's that too.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I love fly fishing - any way you go about it... Here's a few tips for any beginner wanting to score on the flats or in the backcountry... Long before stakeout poles (or Power Poles) most of used our pushpoles for everything - poling, staking out, etc. Here's how we do it all these years later. On a relatively soft bottom the pointy end of your pushpole is all you need to stakeout. When you need to stop your skiff dead simply swap ends on that pushpole and drive the pointed end into the bottom (always at a 45 degree angle - straight up and down breaks poles...). With a bit of practice you can actually pole on soft bottom using the pointy end (gently does it) - just enough to maintain your forward momentum as you approach your target then with a hard push stick that pushpole and you're in business... One other thing you must have for this to work is a short tether (or just a piece of line tied to either your bow or stern to tie off with.... If you're not on soft ground at all you can still stop when needed by simply setting up a small grapnel type anchor on about 20 feet of line at the stern of your skiff... Need to stop and hold? Simply ease that small anchor over the side on any hard bottom (oyster, rock, coral - all perfect places for a small grapnel type anchor to hold you until you retrieve it and move on). Me, I use a folding type anchor just for this type of bottom... In deeper waters you can use the spot lock on a modern trolling motor - but if you use it in the shallows fish will move away from you... 

Here's my solo routine if I'm poling and planning on using a fly rod... The fly rod is laid out on the bow platform with about 40 feet of line on the deck ready to go. I stake out with the pushpole then ease down off of the platform, make my way to the bow, pick up the fly rod - and I'm in business - no stakeout pole or PowerPole needed... 

Here's the deal tossing flies at fish you can see... Don't cast at the fish! If you do that most days you'll either come up short or you'll spook your target - figure out which way the fish is facing (or moving) then lead the fish three or four feet - and toss that fly about three or feet past him... The idea is that your fly moves into the fish's view as it approaches - a very natural presentation... Mis-judge the distance or the fish doesn't move the way you think it will - pick up that cast and make a second presentation... Remember that sometimes a fish (particularly redfish...) will follow a ways before taking a fly so don't give up if at first you don't get bit...

Now for all those times when you're not seeing fish - but along good shoreline with great structure (downed trees or logs, oyster bars or patches, points with visible current, etc.) You can simply drift by and toss your fly at structure... or you can stop at each spot, stake out, and make a few casts to see if anyone is home... A word about fishing structure.. Over the years I've noted that many anglers are very reluctant to actually fish close to something, fearing a snagged fly or lure (or bait....). I want my anglers actually hitting structure as they land their fly... That might be why every bug I tie up has a weedguard or is weedless by design... Land your fly three feet from structure and a big fish laying under a branch or bush or tree - may never even see your lure... or fly... The kind of structure I'm always on the lookout for are places where the end of a piece of structure is in about three or four feet of water - and there's a bit of current so that an ambush predator has a good shot at feeding on crabs, worms, or bait coming by... No we never toss our flies at the bank when fishing structure unless the bank has at least three feet of water - the fish are usually around the part of structure that's the farthest from the bank...

Folks call this "blind fishing" or "beating the bushes" but you're rarely completely blind.... There will almost always be indicators that a given spot is active (bait getting pushed, or lots of bait hanging around a piece of structure, muds showing along stretch of shoreline that look a bit big for mullet to have made, lots of rays on a flat in sheltered areas on a really cold day... ). 

For me most days sight fishing includes lots of blind fishing (around structure mostly) as well as looking for fish to cast at... On the extreme end of things when we're hunting big tarpon I'm looking for big shadows that look like logs - just laying there not moving at all... Yes, it's tough to be able to see them in time to make a cast - and it's a fine point between an approach and getting too close -but that's the game... Of course the hardest part with laid up tarpon is figuring out which end is the head... so you toss at one end and if no response toss your fly at the other end...

Hope this helps. Folks who do a lot of sight-fishing will always be on the lookout for places and situations where a few blind casts might produce. After a while it becomes second nature...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Backflow said:


> Hey Microskiff community,
> 
> Still a newbie here to fly fishing, solo. I am at the level where I can pole, spot the fish, put the pole down and attempt a shot , I have yet to come tight sight fishing due to many different learning experiences (boat drifting too fast, hull noise, bad cast etc etc..) truly enjoying the learning curve and how challenging it is.
> 
> ...


If you are not blind casting, your not fishing much. About 80% of the time, I'm blind casting, which is probably why I'm catching more fish than the guy next to me that's waiting for that perfect sight cast only shot.

As Capt Bob mentioned, sight casting can also be looking for those signs and throwing at them. Read my long reply on the recent "Fly Fishing Chokoloskee" thread that I congered back up, that was done about 3 years ago, where I also talk about those signs and translate them into sight casting opportunities. https://www.microskiff.com/threads/fly-fishing-chokoloskee.46305/


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2020)

lemaymiami said:


> That might be why every bug I tie up has a weedguard or is weedless by design...


Capt. Bob, can you share some of these weedless fly designs you tie? I'm not a fan of tying weed guards.

Hope this doesn't turn into Tarpon Fly 2.0 thread...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Any time I am poling and sight fishing I will always have my rod ready to cast into drains and potholes while the person on the bow does the same. Dredging a drain allowing the lure or fly to sink to the bottom and work slow will catch a surprising number of fish. I catch a lot of bigger trout and flounder this way while targeting redfish.


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## MMc (Sep 27, 2018)

Doesn't matter much in super shallow water, but the biggest difference I have found between spin fishing artificials and throwing flies is the sink rate. Typically I am using jigs that get the bait down to the fish quickly and replicating that with heavy flies isn't a ton of fun. Slowing down your retrieve with a lighter fly will allow it time to sink down to where the fish may be feeding.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

Aldoni said:


> Capt. Bob, can you share some of these weedless fly designs you tie? I'm not a fan of tying weed guards.
> 
> Hope this doesn't turn into Tarpon Fly 2.0 thread...


Weedless by design examples such as bendbacks, jig hooks, etc where the shape of the hook will move the fly around the obstacle.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Pretty much all of my flies are weedless (actually snagless) if I can figure out a way..
Tomorrow sometime I’ll try to show a few samples to get you started.


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## Backflow (Nov 20, 2019)

Thank you all for great information . I Hopefully get out to flamingo this weekend or sometime next week for a couple days. Surprisingly works been busy. Going to leave the spin rods home and reference this article before going out


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Here's a few to get you started.... First are the bendback flies that Chico Fernandez made famous back in the seventies..... Each hook is bent before you start the tying process - most of my patterns have been done on size #1 to size 2/0 Mustad 34007 hooks that I bend myself with two pairs of pliers... Super premium hooks (Gama, Tiemco, Varivas, Owner, etc.) can't be bent at all - the strengthening process makes them a bit brittle so don't even think of using them for a bendback pattern...









This was my original Big Eye Bendback pattern - and I drew royalties on it for a few years before sales dried up and it was dis-continued...








another Big Eye








this completes the series and has a surprise - a 1/2" piece of .040 square lead wire tied in first along the bottom of the hook shank to get this one down a bit...

Here's a few more originals from when I was tying for shops years ago...








the Natural Slinky








a few of the color variations for the Slinky








My version of Flip Pallot's famous Prince of Tides pattern on a 1/0 hook

All of the above are pretty much snagless by design (and the variations are endless) please remember that the "bend" has to be very modest or the pattern will not hook fish very well at all. When Chico first came up with bendback style flies he noted that they did not hook tarpon well at all - something to remember...

Now for patterns where I've added a wire weedguard... first the weedguards themselves - on #5 trolling wire (I use Malins coffee colored stainess...) for any hook size 1/0 and above. For sizes #2 and #1 I use #4 trolling wire.... smaller sizes down to #3 wire....








Note the tiny bend in the end of each wire - that's the tie in point....

In use each weedguard is just an additional component. I tie in eyes first (lead or beadchain - usually a bit behind the hook eye the way you would with a clouser pattern. Then the tail and most of the body of the fly - then before finishing the head you add the weedguard under the hook shank with the pointy end sticking straight out in front of the hook like an extension of the hook shank (you're only tying in the bent portion of the wire the "hairpin") then you complete the fly working around that wire sticking out. This will take some practice, and a few bandaids until you're comfortable using them... Once the fly is finished, raise the wire just enough so that it's not touching the hookeye then coat the head lightly with super glue and wait until it dries...









Once the glue has dried bend the wire back into position, then trim it so that it's even with the hook barb - then a very slight additional bend and you're in business... 

All of the following have this style of weedguard - on many patterns you can't see it at all... The fish don't seem to notice it either...








a Seaducer variation on a #1 hook








the Silhouette in every color variation on a stout Owner Aki 1/0 hook








the Whitewater Clouser, size 2/0








My version of the Crystal Schminnow
Size #4, a favorite baby tarpon bug...

Hope this helps. I'd always intended to do this as a magazine article - but magazines are fast disappearing...


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

Backwater said:


> If you are not blind casting, your not fishing much. About 80% of the time, I'm blind casting, which is probably why I'm catching more fish than the guy next to me that's waiting for that perfect sight cast only shot.
> 
> As Capt Bob mentioned, sight casting can also be looking for those signs and throwing at them. Read my long reply on the recent "Evergades" thread that I congered back up, that was done about 3 years ago, where I also talk about those signs and translate them into sight casting opportunities.


Two back-to-back posts (Capt. LeMay’s and this one) of great information taking you to school - couldn’t ask for better guidance. Pick up “Fly Fishing for Redfish” by Chico Fernandez it’s a great read packed with information.


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

lemaymiami said:


> Here's a few to get you started.... First are the bendback flies that Chico Fernandez made famous back in the seventies..... Each hook is bent before you start the tying process - most of my patterns have been done on size #1 to size 2/0 Mustad 34007 hooks that I bend myself with two pairs of pliers... Super premium hooks (Gama, Tiemco, Varivas, Owner, etc.) can't be bent at all - the strengthening process makes them a bit brittle so don't even think of using them for a bendback pattern...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Capt. LeMay - thanks for posting this, truly appreciated.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

So much nicer reading awesome informative stuff about fly tying, what works, and such from the old salts than plying the seemingly endless threads on the damned virus stuff over and over. 

Much thanks guys. Very much appreciated.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Bob's painted eyes are a nice touch...
I've gotten lazy over the years using glue ons.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Those painted eyes were a nice touch years ago. Don’t believe I’ve done any since I quit tying for shops.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2020)

Thank you for all that info Capt. Bob.

I truly appreciate it.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I rarely blind cast unless I'm beating the bushes in the back somewhere.

This is largely because nearly every time I break down and start blind casting I end up missing a shot on a fish I should have been ready for when it appears out of nowhere.

Water hauling helps with that situation, but I still blind cast very rarely.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

When my anglers are working blind I tell them to listen for me to either say "fish" or "strip in" and that means to get that fly or lure back in and get ready to cast because I'm looking at a fish (up on the tower I'll usually spot fish before my anglers will...). Yes, we miss a few if we can't get ready in time... Matter of fact if we're in fish - or I'm pretty certain we will be - then I don't want them working blind at all.. It's all about being ready to shoot at something before it sees you when you're up really shallow...


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

I always make a few casts at targets on the water at the beginning of a trip even if I’m in prime sight fishing water. That way I get a feel for the set up, the conditions, get the range down and work out any kinks in the line before the first fish gets sighted. 

It’s sort of like taking batting practice before the game. I want to be in a groove prior to making the first sight cast. Seems like a bad start to sight fishing can infect the entire session and a good shot at the first fish can lead to a great day. Definitely don’t want to make that first shot ice cold.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I've blind cast with every Tarpon guide I've used over the years. Lots of fun with a 13-12 wt.


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