# Do I need a skiff, flats, or bay boat?



## dcwillette (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm moving to the Miami area soon and have started thinking about getting another boat.  I have never fished the area so trying to focus my research is tough.

The challenge I have is that I don't know the waters first hand and I'm not sure what type of boat what I should be looking for. I will trailer the boat. 

I imagine that I will be fishing in three areas:

1. 10,000 Islands. 
2. Keys
3. Off the beach in the Ft Lauderdale/southeast florida area. 

I imagine that there be some cruising with family on calm days also.  Family includes wife, 8 year old, and maybe the dog on occasion. They like to fish also.

I acknowledge that there is no perfect boat and it's all about compromises. Having said that, I want a boat  that:

1. Is safe to venture into open water on pretty calm days and to target dolphin, wahoo, etc
2. Can get to redfish, snook, bonefish in the flats

I began my looking with bay boats such as Tidewater Carolina Bay, Pathfinder, etc but lately have been leaning more towards less draft.... Egret 189 & 2011, HB Marquesa, Dolphin Backcountry 18 Pro, Beavertail 18 BTV.

I guess the questions to be answered is how much flats am I going to miss out on with something with a 10-11" draft vs how uncomfortable and unsafe is my family going to be on something with 7" draft?

Btw, I really prefer the large flat casting deck design on flats boats as opposed to open bow.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

check out the Hewes Redfisher 18

http://www.hewes.com/boats/redfisher-18/


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

> check out the Hewes Redfisher 18
> 
> http://www.hewes.com/boats/redfisher-18/


if Santa is reading, I'll take one of those too.

One thing that should not be underestimated is the importance of the covered deck and self draining cockpit. From what I have understand, the normal way for things to go wrong in this size boat is that you fill the boat with water, then it flips. But with the covered and sealed decks, and low sides, there is just a lot less volume for the water to fill. And it will drain out without relying on a small battery powered pump.


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## Shinerkiller (Dec 12, 2006)

Master Angler 18 but also look into the Panga 18' Skiff


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Where in Miami? I lived down that way for a long time and honestly your normal stomping ground will dictate more of the boat you will best use.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

You forgot to mention your budget. Also, where will the boat be kept? Does it need to fit into a garage? Will it be trailered? If so, what's the capacity of your tow vehicle? 

In general I'd say not to attach too much importance to shallow draft and more to seaworthiness and comfort for your family. Not a lot of spots in South Florida require extreme shallow draft, but if you're going outside you do want to be able to handle a little weather.


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## hferrell87 (Jan 28, 2013)

My buddy is about to sell his Egret 189. Message me if interested.


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## dcwillette (Sep 16, 2014)

Budget is varied here. I'm prepared to spend enough for a new Egret 2011 but would prefer to spend much less if I can find a quality boat that fits my needs and desires.

I would say the Egret is the very top of the budget.  I would much rather spend $35K than $70K. It really comes down to what I believe I'm getting for my money compared to the competition.

I like the idea of putting it in the garage but I've begun to think that's just not going to happen because I really think I'm interested 18-22ft and not 17ft and under.

Vertigo... tow vehicle capacity is not an issue. I'm coming from TX. 

I believe I will be living in the Weston/Pembroke Pines/Doral area but haven't ruled out Coral Gables.

Haven't looked at the Hewes yet.


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## blondmonkey777 (Oct 18, 2012)

If I had you budget no question it would be egret 2011 or yellowfin bay or lake and bay 22 bay. Nothing else compares


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

Islamorada 20 boca enough said!


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

What kind of fishing do you do where you are from or what kind of fishing do you enjoy most? 

Are you a fly fisherman/hardcore sight fisherman? Or do you prefer fishing bait for whatever bites? 

Want to fish with family often or just occasional day on the water with the family? 

Enjoy off shore fishing or maybe diving/spearfishing?

South Florida is a very versatile fishing area and theres lots of fish to be caught many different ways. Can help narrow down your choice with a better idea of what you really want to do. Best advice, use the 90/10 rule. Buy something that will satisfy exactly what you want to 90% of the time because if you get something that attempts to be a hybrid and does everything "OK" then you may be dissapointed in the end. Get something that is made to do what you will do 90% of the time, and the things want to do the other 10% of the time will come.


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## Capt. Gregg McKee (Sep 28, 2007)

If you're prepared to spend enough for an Egret 2011 than definitely take a look at the new Beavertail Lightning. It's definitely in the same class and a loaded one is about $10k less. It's also faster with less hp.


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## dcwillette (Sep 16, 2014)

Snookintime... I grew up fishing offshore in NC on boats like a 34' Hatteras. However, I prefer both flats and nearshore. I like fly and sight fishing but honestly I find myself using conventional gear for whatever is biting more often than not. That is due to both location and my fly skills that need more development. 

I have a nice fishing kayak but don't use it much because doing so means I'm not spending time with the wife and kid when I'm doing it. Kayak fishing is just too much effort for them to enjoy and I don't want to put them in the position of doing it in the salt.

I used to dive quite a bit. I wouldn't mind doing that again but I don't see myself doing much of that in the near future. I can see them snorkeling in clear water until they figure out snorkeling beats the hell out of you and that diving is so much better.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm not really looking for "this brand or model is better than that model" but feedback on does anyone actually take a wife and kids on a 17-18 skiff or flats boat or 2 miles off the beach? Or, will a flats/bay boat with a 11-12" draft provide plenty of flats fishing in the area?  I know  this is Microskiff.com so people here are likely to put draft above all else, and sometimes we can get carried away with specs. I wonder if I really, really need a sub-10" draft in most of the south florida area?

I know that it would be best if I knew the area I want to fish most and then find the boat for it. In my case, I'm going to have to predict the area(s), buy a boat, and then use it where I can.  Since I move quite a bit.. that could be anywhere along the gulf coast or atlantic coast up to NC/VA... although I hope to stay in FL.


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## Capt Dan Medina (Apr 28, 2008)

I was born and raised in Miami. 

The best all around boat that I would recommend would be a true flats or bay boat. It gives you the versatility of running offshore on a decent day, and a 10 inch draft will get you to 90% of the waters you actually want to fish. 

My boat of choice would be a hewes red fisher 18. Lots of storage, good size livewell, and handle a chop like a champ. 

Their drawbacks are slightly deeper draft, more freeboard which makes them a bear to poll in stiff winds... Good 24v trolling motor can be a godsend.











This is a picture of my old hewes. I sold her to a buddy when I moved up to the homosassa area as the oyster bars scared the hell out of me. I opted for an aluminum boat until I learned the waters well enough.

Now I'm down in Cape Coral and wish I had my hewes again.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> Master Angler 18 but also look into the Panga 18' Skiff


Find a clean used Master Angler and save yourself $30k. Hells bay is too small for an "everything" boat and the egret is perfect but pricy. The master angler rides great, stable, tons of room, and fishes well


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## warrenpb50 (Mar 18, 2013)

I have an Ankona Native my wife and I fish out of with no problem. However, here in Chokoloskee, FL seems like most of the boats going out are bay boats or the larger/wider flats boats. You can run them offshore on godd days and anywhere you want except way back inshore. Lot of Patfinders, Skeeters, Mavericks. The guides I know all run bay boats.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> The guides I know all run bay boats.


That in itself speaks volumes. Guides have 2 requirements.
1 catch fish
2 keep several clients(possibly whiney or women/children) comfortable


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

You need a 18+ footer that can handle 3' chop, keep your family dry, poll decent, daft 8-10" and have plenty off storage. Multiple live wells and can run 40+Mph to run from storms...Oh that's my boat. A Maverick Master Angler would work


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

I've owned 2 pathfinder 22's, 2 egret 189's, and now own a beavertail vengence. 
There's a lot of good choices - egret 189 or maverick 18 - both good, but the BTV is a lot skinnoer and poles better withoout giving up a tremendous amount in terms of ride - if that's what you want. 
The boca grande 20 is an awesome sled - a buddy has a back country pro 202(same hull) - it's an awesome boat. The 2011 egret or yellowfin never struck my fancy - I think I would look at the moccasin 210 by egret - I think it's a lot more versative looking boat, and may be a really great boat to do it all. If I wanted a 20 footer I would get the moccosin or the boca grande 20. Only thing is - if you really want to get to the reds and pole - the BTV is the best overall comrpomise you could make (in my opinion). I sold my last egret because I wanted to get to the reds in flamingo.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

A little more thought on the above post.

There seems to be basically 3 boat types - technical skiff, flats boats and bay boats. A skiff gets skinny and poles great - but you give up a lot in terms of ride versus a flats boat. Forget poling the 20 footers and bay boats. However, there are a few boats that seem to straddle the categories. The BTV seems to straddle between the technical skiff and flats boat ( and I think the boca grande 20 and the moccasin 210 straddle between the flats boats and bay boats - with some hope of very minimal poling to be done) . In terms of ride, the BTV is closer to a flats boat, in terms of poling - its closer to a tech skiff. It really is a pretty unique boat because it has a sharper entry then any of the flats boats, and this really cuts the chop and keeps you really dry. However, it is almost a flat bottom in the rear - unlike the maverick and egret, which carry the deadrise to the stern. This allows a lot shallower draft and the light weight (675 lbs) is also right between the 2 categories. Sorry to be such a fan boy, but the more I'm on other hulls, the more it makes me realize what a unique set of compromises it represents. I think the BTV is summarily dismissed by many people because they cannot believe it really does what is advertised. 

Although I now own the hull, I have switched out of boats every year for the last 11 (I like to change). However, I cannot find another hull that intrigues me more than this (and this is the first time I've ever kept a boat for 2 years, with no plans on replacing it). By the way - I live in Miami and fish all the area's you mentioned, with a priority to the flats much more than offshore.


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## habanalure (Feb 6, 2012)

You are going to an area that has a lot to offer. In calm days you will want to venture out into the blue for Dolfin, etc.
IMHO I would go for the bay boat, as big as I could afford.
When I lived in South Fl many years ago I started with a runabout and gradually ended up with a 27 footer with twin engines. Remember Bimini is only 50 miles from the Miami coast.
Good luck and enjoy that beautiful area.


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## dcwillette (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. After reading this forum for awhile it's easy to convince yourself that something like a 6" draft skiff is the only thing worth having in the area.

I'll take a look at the boats suggested.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> A little more thought on the above post.
> 
> There seems to be basically 3 boat types - technical skiff, flats boats and bay boats. A skiff gets skinny and poles great - but you give up a lot in terms of ride versus a flats boat. Forget poling the 20 footers and bay boats. However, there are a few boats that seem to straddle the categories. The BTV seems to straddle between the technical skiff and flats boat ( and I think the boca grande 20 and the moccasin 210 straddle between the flats boats and bay boats - with some hope of very minimal poling to be done) . In terms of ride, the BTV is closer to a flats boat, in terms of poling - its closer to a tech skiff.  It really is a pretty unique boat because it has a sharper entry then any of the flats boats, and this really cuts the chop and keeps you really dry. However, it is almost a flat bottom in the rear - unlike the maverick and egret, which carry the deadrise to the stern. This allows a lot shallower draft and the light weight (675 lbs) is also right between the 2 categories. Sorry to be such a fan boy, but the more I'm on other hulls, the more it makes me realize what a unique set of compromises it represents. I think the BTV  is summarily dismissed by many people because they cannot believe it really does what is advertised.
> 
> Although I now own the hull, I have switched out of boats every year for the last 11 (I like to change). However, I cannot find another hull that intrigues me more than this (and this is the first time I've ever kept a   boat for 2 years, with no plans on replacing it). By the way - I live in Miami and fish all the area's you mentioned, with a priority to the flats much more than offshore.


I'm sorry but there are a lot better hybrids tech/flats in my opinion, 18' hpxv and 18 marquesa are two of the best hybrid boats out there sub 8-9" draft, poles easy, rides great in a mod chop, dry, stable and fast. 

Yes the BT is shallower than both, but both of the boats mentioned above are faster, drier, and have a much better ride. 

If you looking for a skiff to fish 90% inside and sub 10" than a marquesa is hard to beat, and yes I do own one so my opinion is 1 sided not just because I own one, but because the boat fit my needs the best. 

I have extensive hours on a 18 hpxv even won a IFA out of one in the lagoon. The marquesa poles a little better is what pushed me to it over another 18hpxv.

The 189, 2011 egrets, or the boca 20 your not going to pole but you will gain some speed, storage, and a better ride. The egrets will perform better in a swell over the boca but in a close chop the boca 20 will eat it up like no other flats boat I have ever been on.

If you looking for a bay boat, yellow fin, islamorada boatworks, and shearwater are all nice, I owned a 25ltz and currently captain a 26 Carolina Shearwater for a client and its a nice rig. If you order a yellowfin order it with a full foam core, they still use balsa in their builds, and the team at islamorada are top notch. 

Enjoy your search don't get in a hurry and buy the boat that fits your needs and you feel gives you the best value. 

Good luck And Post pics whatever u get! 

Creek


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

My opinion is a bit different then most here, sorry if I'm long winded. I lived down there for 15 years and still have lots of family spread between Miami all the way to Green acres. We fished everything from leaking jons, up to 80ft drifts. All that being said you already know there is no perfect boat that will do all you want. 

So I will say you should pick your boat based on your primary residence. You asked a site based on small boats what you should be getting and naturally most of us lean towards the micro side, but honestly I wouldn't own anything under a 20ft bay down there again as long as I have a family. If I didn't have a family that might be with me on occasion I might go down to an 18ft. If you were living way south in Miami and had quick access to biscayne bay, I would say a flats boat, or bay boat, will do you well. However I quickly got burnt out on making the trip down, miami traffic is insane! If you move to weston, or anywhere north of there, I would be looking at a larger bay boat or even an offshore boat, since you have a quick ride down 595 to the water.

My family got a seafox viper 200 a year ago, it's a decent 20' bay boat and has served us well so far. However there have been many days were we have been chased back to the intercoastal by mounting winds and seas. It does ok on calmer days with under 3ft, but beyond that it isn't comfortable. They might be looking at getting rid of it for a dusky 22-24ft so we can get out more and not have to pick our days so carefully. 

That's just my $0.02


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Personally I would recomend to you:

Hells Bay Marquesa (old or new design)
East Cape Vantage
Maverick HPXV 18
Dolphin Superskiff 17
Islamorada 18

These are all boats that have deadrise through to the transom providing a solid comfortable ride in chop, have ample storage, at least 78" beam, and a sub 10" draft. What sets these apart from your typical "flats boat" like a Hewes redfisher, Maverick Master angler, Egret etc. is that they are #1 built lighter, #2 designed with the intent for it to be poled, #3 require less HP thus a lighter motor. These can all be powered with as little as a 90 HP and achieve speeds in the low 40's. Many will tell you to get a traditional "flats boat" because the belief is that they provide a softer and drier ride but in most cases it is not true. You may "feel" more comfortable in "flats boat" because of its overall larger size, higher sides, and larger HP but in reality these boats listed are just as seaworthy and dependable in nasty conditions as any "flats boat". These big tradition "flats boats" are designed wider to compensate for the heavy and large build of the boat, thus a less aggressive V bottom and for surface area equals a lesser smooth ride in chop. Now, these boats I listed arent really a "skiff" even though the builders will say so. Like mentioned by some earlier they are the best in between boat of a skiff and flats boat with good attributes from both classes. 

I didnt list the Beavertail BTV because of its flat bottom at the transom, which makes its slower than those listed with the same HP, and in the end its not as good of a ride in the nasty stuff. 

Something else to consider with your budget is 2 boats. Maybe pick up 2 used boats; a true technical poling skiff and a bay boat/small open fisherman. Then you can get the best of both worlds.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

firecat1981 speaks the truth.  An 18' shallow draft skiff is going to get far less use and see far more towing in traffic and be far less family friendly than something a little larger and more seaworthy.

Furthermore, if I had a bucks to drop on a new Egret or similar, I wouldn't.  There are so many good deals on very nice used boats today that I'd never consider new.  Here's just one that has me drooling: 

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/4666169179.html 

Someone please buy this so I can quit obsessing.


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

Sounds like you need a bay boat.


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Vertigo why did you have to post that? If I had not just bought a new A/C system for my house today I would be in my car to get that boat. That would be perfect. To bad I would have absolutely no place to put it or anything to tow it with. My vote is for the Sea Craft and a small skiff. I'll bet that Sea Craft and a new 18 shadow cast are still cheaper than a 2011 Egret. Just saying.


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## amurleopard1967 (Jun 18, 2014)

I have had an Egret 16 for over seven years. I can take it out 10 miles and fish offshore. I have been in two footers many times with it. I can also fish the backwaters in a foot of water if I need too. It has a big livewell and big gas tank for long trips.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

If you have 70K to spend I would get 2 used boats instead of one new boat. Spend 15K on a good Micro and 40K on an offshore center console. You would still have money left to outfit them both!


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

17 mako


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

> Vertigo why did you have to post that? If I had not just bought a new A/C system for my house today I would be in my car to get that boat.  That would be perfect.  To bad I would have absolutely no place to put it or anything to tow it with. My vote is for the Sea Craft and a small skiff. I'll bet that Sea Craft and a new 18 shadow cast are still cheaper than a 2011 Egret.  Just saying.


John, the facts that my Xterra couldn't tow it safely and that it probably wouldn't fit thru my gate, and that it costs money that I could better spend elsewhere and that I couldn't afford the gas to run it don't stop me.... my wife does. She says one more boat and I'd better think about hiring a food taster.


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## dcwillette (Sep 16, 2014)

Cut Runner... I fished on a 2-month old Mako 18LTS last summer. The fuel gauge didn't work and the fit and finish of the hatches and storage wasn't too impressive. I remembered Mako from years ago being decent boats but I don't think I could spend my money on one today.


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## Hunt and Fish SRQ (Feb 10, 2014)

I have talked to people before and I absolutely love the versatility and simplicity of having a poling skiff -- BUT I have had the fortunate luck to have a big boat that I can use for cruising, offshore and taking the girlfriend and girls out... I would agree and seriously look around at the many great larger bay boats available.


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