# To all the past/present fishing guides out there......



## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

As fisherman, i'm sure we have all had the thought of being a guide cross our minds in some shape or form. I often hear people say "I wish I was lucky enough to be a guide" or "maybe ill just quit my day job and become a fishing guide." On the other hand I hear a lot of "It would ruin fishing for me" or "don't turn your favorite hobby into a job."

To those who made the plunge, can I get a little bit of your story? Why did you decide to guide? What did you do before you were a guide? How long did/do you plan to guide?

Were you happy? Did it ruin any part of fishing for you? Did it make fishing more enjoyable?

Did you make a comfortable living?

Not saying I am about to quit my job, just day dreaming behind my god forsaken computer screen....like all of you have.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

It takes a special breed to be a full time or even part time guide for sure. I can say I would not expect to get rich guiding but generally speaking if you have some other irons in the fire you can make a decent living. I’d love to be a full time sight fishing/wading guide but I will be happy building a client base and doing it part time until then. It’s a pretty saturated field so expect to have lots of competition.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I considered it in my mid to late 20's and ultimately decided it wasn't the right timing, just starting a family. Maybe later in life when I don't have the stress of a family to support I would be more open to the idea.

I don't ever want to dread having to go fishing, the way I dread going to work on a Monday morning. I know at some point that will happen if I turn fishing into a job.

Income is somewhat capped and dependent on other variables. Only so many days a year and so much you can reasonably charge and that's assuming you don't have weather issues, environmental issues (red tide, algae), boat issues... Long list here of things that are out of your control.

Other things to consider are declining water quality / poor management ( in FL), constant sun exposure, inconsiderate customers, spending full days with people that you don't like, spending full days with people that can't cast. I'm not saying it's a bad job, but it's not for everyone. I'm sure the good days when you have skilled anglers are great, but all the other days in between will turn into a grind. You also need to be a patient person.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I've thought about early retirement with a Captain's license. But that's at least 10 years in the future and proving to myself that I can more consistently find fish in varying conditions. Our area of the bay would be damn tough to guide fly...

Also...I once turned my obsessive college football fanaticism into a position writing columns for a large metropolitan newspaper. It sucked all the fun and passion out of attending and watching the games. So there is that...


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## Boneheaded (Oct 4, 2017)

My perspective may be unique, hopefully not.
My father was and still is a relatively successful bonefish guide down here in Biscayne/flamingo. while i was growing up in the 90's and early 2000's we fished literally every weekend, i owe everything to my dad in regards to fishing/maintaining a boat, when most kids are thinking about their first car i was already thinking of my first boat (i wanted a b1 lol). When i was probably 14 or 15 i remember telling him of my aspirations to get a boat and take up guiding once i turned 18, to which his response was "Go to college, get a good job, and pay someone to take you fishing". Growing up he worked really hard, missed probably 3 Christmas, sometimes totally booked in the spring time, hauling the rig to homestead or flamingo, poling all day, and making the haul back home to rinse the boat off and do it the next day. I never really understood why he told me that until i got older, went to college and am now a teacher, Youre livelihood depends on someone else leisure time. Now im considering getting my CL this year to take the odd booking or multi boat charter with my old man, who now thinks becoming a captain part time is a good idea. 
I say go for it.


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## Luke_B (May 28, 2014)

I've had this thought...

I'm in retail already and love working with people and I'm damn good at it as well. Being a guide is being a salesman. You may not catch any fish... but your customer better say they had the best time not catching anything. The successful guides build relationships with their customers and don't even need new clients. 

The fishing part is important but I would say the people part is far more important. If you don't like dealing with the general public guiding is not for you. A lot of weekend warriors that tried it out never understood that until they got into the game. 

The only reason I didn't do it personally was because I didn't want to take the pay cut. Plus I'm not in the elements and make enough to support my habbit (fishing).


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I think you had better be able to produce consistently or not give it a thought.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/best-route-for-6-pack-license.43963/

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/new-potential-captain-swfl.35976/#post-290612


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

devrep said:


> I think you had better be able to produce consistently or not give it a thought.


It’s not always about catching a bunch of fish. Most people are happy to get a couple of shots at a fish per trip. Some guides just do what the customer wants and goes where they want to go because it’s cheaper to hire a guide a few times a year than own your own boat. Some people just want a guide to run their boat and show them where to and not to run.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

devrep said:


> I think you had better be able to produce consistently or not give it a thought.


^this^

I saw about 10 reds today and I couldn’t get one to eat... very frustrating. Takes a lot of skill and hours on the water to consistently find fish and ALSO get them to eat. I realized I am very far away from that level of expertise today lol. Also transitioning from a full time job to Fishing guide is difficult since time on the water is limited when you work a regular job for a living.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

All good food for thought. I realize that this a definitely a people business, and I love people! I am also an extremely patient person. Of all the fishing I do, and fish I catch, nothing compares to having someone else land a fish that you put them on. I would like to think that this feeling would keep me coming back day after day. I did look over the fact that a lot of clients have no idea what they are doing. These days would be frustrating but like some of you said, its about the time they had on your boat not necessarily the fish they catch. 

The dream me and my soon to be wife have is to work hard while we are young, become financially set, and then take an early retirement doing what we love. She would be a personal trainer and I would guide. I just have this fear that in 25 years or so, her and I both may not be as physically inclined to carry out our dream jobs. Its like, would I rather spend my younger years of high energy behind a computer or on a poling platform? I can slave away behind a computer when i'm old and tired. I have not regretted a single thing in my life and I would regret it if I didn't guide in some shape or form at some point of my life. 

I went to college, I have a good job in the construction industry, been at it for a few years. While being financially stable is great, feeling unfulfilled does not. I think about fishing from when I wake up to when I go to sleep. Almost all of my free time is taken up by fishing, tying flies, building rods, rigging for my next trip, and spending WAY too much time learning from everyone on this site. It wouldn't necessarily even have to be guiding, but if I could do something, ANYTHING in the fishing industry, that would fulfill my obsession with fishing I would quit my job tomorrow.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Its a physically tough job.
Its mentally tough. Most jobs (I said most there are certainly exceptions) at the end of the day you go home and are done. Guides have to prep the boat for the next day. Rig gear. Answer phone calls and emails. Watch the weather to figure out the next day.
Its a saturated field. There are already tons of guides (some would say too many) and there are only so many client days available.
Have you ever spent an entire day on a boat, in close quarters, with somebody you couldn't stand? Thankfully they are not the norm but there are plenty of them.

Now here to me is the clincher:
What do you have to offer that guide XYZ doesn't.
a. Better equipment.
b. More knowledge
c. Better attitude
d. Better marketing skills

All this is not to discourage somebody from doing what they MAY love. Just have seen way too many people go into the guiding thing without really understanding what they were getting into.


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

Pierson said:


> All good food for thought. I realize that this a definitely a people business, and I love people! I am also an extremely patient person. Of all the fishing I do, and fish I catch, nothing compares to having someone else land a fish that you put them on. I would like to think that this feeling would keep me coming back day after day. I did look over the fact that a lot of clients have no idea what they are doing. These days would be frustrating but like some of you said, its about the time they had on your boat not necessarily the fish they catch.
> 
> The dream me and my soon to be wife have is to work hard while we are young, become financially set, and then take an early retirement doing what we love. She would be a personal trainer and I would guide. I just have this fear that in 25 years or so, her and I both may not be as physically inclined to carry out our dream jobs. Its like, would I rather spend my younger years of high energy behind a computer or on a poling platform? I can slave away behind a computer when i'm old and tired. I have not regretted a single thing in my life and I would regret it if I didn't guide in some shape or form at some point of my life.
> 
> I went to college, I have a good job in the construction industry, been at it for a few years. While being financially stable is great, feeling unfulfilled does not. I think about fishing from when I wake up to when I go to sleep. Almost all of my free time is taken up by fishing, tying flies, building rods, rigging for my next trip, and spending WAY too much time learning from everyone on this site. It wouldn't necessarily even have to be guiding, but if I could do something, ANYTHING in the fishing industry, that would fulfill my obsession with fishing I would quit my job tomorrow.


Why don't you start out guiding on the weekends only? That way you can minimize your risk prior to going head first. Most people can only fish weekends anyway. Make your charter a little less $$$ than others and be up front etc. If you have fished a body of water for a long enough time you would know where and how to get on fish at certain times of year. Also developing a network of others that fish can help keep you in the loop.

As mentioned previously about people wanting to go out to just learn the waters and channels. You can also provide eco tours, burials @ sea etc if you want the side $$$. Not everyone is trying to get on the water to fish.

Also if you do get into it I would pay someone for SEO (Search engine optimization) so you get to top of google search list.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

jlindsley said:


> Why don't you start out guiding on the weekends only?


Something I have considered. In my mind though, I really want to fully commit myself to something. Guiding on the weekends spreads myself thin in all aspects of my life. I would be half-assing my job thinking about my weekend charter, half-assing my charter thinking about the work week, and half-assing my family/free time because I will be working 6-7 days a week. 

If I were to make the decision to guide, I would make sure I was financially sound enough to take an entire year to build a client base, get myself established, licensed, and knowledgeable of the fishery I decide to work in. That way I would not be struggling right off the bat.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

I'm not trying to discourage you but it's gonna get tougher to pass up a steady job and follow your dream if you decide to have kids. Also, make sure your wife keeps a job with access to good health insurance if you start guiding.


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## verystrange (Oct 6, 2017)

Just personal preference, when I book a guide, I am looking for someone in the 20-35ish age range rather than the retired old timer. The young guys are hungry for it still, will go beyond and work harder than what others will and one of the most important things is are tech savvy. Last guide I took, Brandon Cyr in Key West was incredible and really worked for the fish. But also as I caught a ~8lb bonefish, he pulled out this dslr camera and took pictures, sent me the originals and edited some of them too before emailing me them. Its about the little things, and remembering the trips for years to come. Yes, catching numbers is great, but there is more to it.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

For the last two years I have worked in an office. I spent all of my adult life up to that point in high adrenaline jobs and this desk is killing my soul. Every waking moment is dominated by thoughts of the water and I truly love the feeling of watching someone land a fish that I put them on. The problem is I generally can't stand people and the older I get, the harder it is to put up with BS, so guiding full time is probably not an option. I was thinking of getting my CL and running a few "trips" a year for friends etc. and show all the money I waste on this hobby as a business expense. According to my tax lady, it should work. If not, please put some money on my books when I'm in federal prison.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Going to offer a different viewpoint on the "start guiding on weekends" suggestion. I think that is a terrible idea for a reason not yet pointed out. When I am going to spend some hard earned cash and take a guided trip I absolutely shy away from weekend guys. Sure there are some really good ones. But I have found two issues with them.

1. Some of them are doing it as a means to get a little extra cash to pay for their skiff, etc. They may or may not have any business actually taking money to take somebody fishing.
2. There is just no way that a weekend guide has his pulse on the fishery as well as a full time guide who is out there everyday. Things change on the water quickly. What was happening a week ago may not be even close to where you should be looking this weekend.


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## Breeze (Aug 7, 2016)

Pierson said:


> As fisherman, i'm sure we have all had the thought of being a guide cross our minds in some shape or form. I often hear people say "I wish I was lucky enough to be a guide" or "maybe ill just quit my day job and become a fishing guide." On the other hand I hear a lot of "It would ruin fishing for me" or "don't turn your favorite hobby into a job."
> 
> To those who made the plunge, can I get a little bit of your story? Why did you decide to guide? What did you do before you were a guide? How long did/do you plan to guide?
> 
> ...


All I can say is life's to short to have any regrets. You never get anywhere in life if you don't take any chances. I'm sure a lot of us have been broke once in our life. At least you would spend time on the water


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm in the "i just want to guide on the weekends" category. What's holding me back is that currently i'm friends with a lot of guides around our over saturated guide town and I don't want to ruffle too many feathers for a little side gig and tax advantages. Another is that My wife and I are going to start a family in the next couple of years and after that happens I can't imagine that i'd have the time to give it an honest run. 

I believe it's an all or nothing type of thing, the more I think about it. If you live in a touristy area, know the water, and there isn't a ton of other guides to compete with then I think it's something I'd go for. Unfortunately there are something like 450 registered inshore guides in the Charleston area and I'm not trying to make it 451.


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## Canoeman (Jul 23, 2008)

Evaluate the cost of doing business and your tolerance for living on no money before entering any self employed business. If you go into the guiding business, you will need at least a boat and a tow vehicle. Let's say that's $40K. You probably already have them, but if you're making payments, your current job is paying for them, as well as paying your other living expenses. When you go into business for yourself suddenly you have no income, you need a place to live, food, a vehicle, a boat, repair money, insurance, etc, etc, etc. I'd say it's a very risky venture. The rewards can be great, but only for the very determined.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

I think it depends on what you actually want out of it. If you think it will be awesome because you'll be fishing all the time, you'll probably hate it. If you want to do it for the people aspect of it, you'll probably enjoy it.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

mtoddsolomon said:


> I'm in the "i just want to guide on the weekends" category. What's holding me back is that currently i'm friends with a lot of guides around our over saturated guide town and I don't want to ruffle too many feathers for a little side gig and tax advantages. Another is that My wife and I are going to start a family in the next couple of years and after that happens I can't imagine that i'd have the time to give it an honest run.
> 
> I believe it's an all or nothing type of thing, the more I think about it. If you live in a touristy area, know the water, and there isn't a ton of other guides to compete with then I think it's something I'd go for. Unfortunately there are something like 450 registered inshore guides in the Charleston area and I'm not trying to make it 451.


Yeah and how many of those 450 are really making a living at it. Its one thing to be doing something you love and that is a big deal. But at the end of the day you have to make a living....unless you have a trust fund or a wife with a big paying job good luck.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Lots to say about this topic... but also lots not to say.

First thought - be careful what you wish for....

Second thought - an old joke from the Keys... "What do you call a guide down here that just broke up with his girlfriend?" Easy, one word answer.... (wait for it...) -Homeless

Last thought, most who consider guiding for money only look at the lifestyle issues, rarely the practical side of things. Yes, it's pretty much whatever you decide to make it. What folks might want to remember is that you don't get to pick and choose your days to fish (and mostly, the folks who you'll be on the water with...). Guiding on days when the fish are biting is like stealing money (more than one guide has said this to me in passing) - but guiding when the fish aren't biting can be the hardest work you ever did... That might just be why I've seen many take up guiding -then just fade away into something else a few years later when they've finally had enough.... That said, in my experience, the folks I've had fish with me are the nicest around (with rare exception...).

I'm in my 21st year full time as a guide (when I started at age 47 I planned to do it for a minimum of 23 years -one year more than I did in a law enforcement career). Health issues are the usual thing that ends a guide's career (and I've known more than a few that passed away from melanoma or related problems - some a lot younger than you'd ever have guessed...). 

I'll finish with what was supposed to have been said by a very well known guide's wife towards the end of his career... She's supposed to have said that he had great heart and lungs, strong arms and back, and bad skin.... I asked him one day, some years ago, "Well Bill, are you getting enough bookings?" He said, boy, you never have enough bookings.... Bill Curtis passed away a year or two ago - long after he quit guiding. I think he was nearly eighty before he quit - so there's hope for the rest of us...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

There’s more to being a guide than taking 4 googans out on a flat chunking live shrimp under a popping cork but you would be amazed how many lodges around my neck of the woods do that and make money hand over fist. It’s sickening actually because day in and day out these lodges are taking rich folks on corporate trips to “experience the Texas inshore fishery” and all they do is take 6-8 boat loads of guys out on the water slinging bait and usually come in after 3-4 hours on the water with a few black drum, a dink trout or two and a few redfish and charge them for a half day. They dump the clients and scoop up another group and do it all over again in the evening. I never understand that and probably never will. Maybe I’m weird but I’d rather be sight casting fish with artificial lures and releasing them or wading with lures, keeping a few fish for the table and seeing if I can catch a trophy class fish to take a few photos of and see swim away. It seems like people forgot what fishing is really about and think it’s running around drinking beer on flats boats with 300’s and keeping a limit every trip out. I guess I’m an oddball but I’m looking for clients that are wanting the experience and to grind it out all day...not a Facebook hero shot and a pile of fillets to throw in the freezer just to be tossed out a couple of years later. I’ll take those types every time and the others can go with the mainstream outfits.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> There’s more to being a guide than taking 4 googans out on a flat chunking live shrimp under a popping cork but you would be amazed how many lodges around my neck of the woods do that and make money hand over fist. It’s sickening actually because day in and day out these lodges are taking rich folks on corporate trips to “experience the Texas inshore fishery” and all they do is take 6-8 boat loads of guys out on the water slinging bait and usually come in after 3-4 hours on the water with a few black drum, a dink trout or two and a few redfish and charge them for a half day. They dump the clients and scoop up another group and do it all over again in the evening. I never understand that and probably never will. Maybe I’m weird but I’d rather be sight casting fish with artificial lures and releasing them or wading with lures, keeping a few fish for the table and seeing if I can catch a trophy class fish to take a few photos of and see swim away. It seems like people forgot what fishing is really about and think it’s running around drinking beer on flats boats with 300’s and keeping a limit every trip out. I guess I’m an oddball but I’m looking for clients that are wanting the experience and to grind it out all day...not a Facebook hero shot and a pile of fillets to throw in the freezer just to be tossed out a couple of years later. I’ll take those types every time and the others can go with the mainstream outfits.


It's Captain Poppins!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

SomaliPirate said:


> It's Captain Poppins!


I learned a new slang term for googans while I was fishing Venice last month...Chevo!


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

Thanks you guys so much for all the input. It really helps me get an idea of things to think about in the future. Lets just say that I will still be showing up to work tomorrow...
On that note, it has still not left my mind and it probably wont. If I did decide to get into guiding, it would not be for the money. My soon to be wife makes more money than I, is extremely supportive, and cares for my mental well being. We are extremely financially responsible and have many safety nets to fall back on. This would be to fulfill a dream that I may regret one day when it is too late. Until then, you will find me sitting here....day after day.....browsing the pages of microskiff between projects.....pretending that I am living my life to the fullest.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

One last thought. How happy a person is and how much they like or at least tolerate what they are doing in life is choice. You can choose to be happy or not.


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## Dawhoo (Oct 27, 2015)

I think in the nostalgia of being a guide people forget... fishing for fun is much different than fishing for a job. People fish as a way to "escape" , the context of a career removes the very essence of why most of us recreational anglers love the sport.


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## LowKeyCapt (Nov 30, 2017)

Hi Gang,
I may be qualified to chime in here. I used to be in IT up in Tampa Bay. I liked what I did, but I wasn't as happy as I knew I could be. I grew up fishing and was a weekend warrior. I decided that I was about done with computers, and wanted to make a living on the water. My wife and I ended up falling in love with Key West on vacation and decided to "go for it" and move. Took a little time to figure things out, but we made it happen. That was four years ago. I am going into my fifth year as a full time fishing guide down here. It has been an incredible adventure and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I made more money pounding a key board, but I never cared about that. 

The fishing is the easy part. Anyone can catch fish. You have to be good with the people to be successful and get the repeats and word of mouth. You have to be adaptable in every aspect. The weather changes, the bite changes, or people change their mind. It's all part of the deal and you just have to make it work. You get great people that end up being friends, you also get people who are never going to be happy. You have to find a way to be successful in both scenarios. 

Another important part is having a way to make it through the slow times. Work can be very seasonal and you need to be smart to make it through the slower times.

I have fished around 1200 over the last four years down here. I've had some really great trips, and some tougher days. The passion and love for fishing is still there. Your goals may change though, at least for me they did. I'd rather help someone catch their first tarpon any day than catch one myself. I find myself guiding even when I'm just out with my friends.

I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat. It was scary at first, but in the end it worked out. Doing something you love can completely change your life. 

Good luck if and when you decide to make the jump.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

jlindsley said:


> Why don't you start out guiding on the weekends only?


There are spots here on the TX coast where the guides ask if you can come on a Thursday / Friday or Monday / Tuesday to avoid the crowds. Shoot, Tues / Wed / Thurs are better. And for some strange reason, Mother Nature has decided that cold fronts only come through Texas on Friday nights! How that crazy pattern is true 9 out 10 times I have no idea.

The weekends are where the majority of the people are, but not all. Not everyone is M-F 9 to 5. Lots of real estate, service industry, healthcare and self employed people out there.

I've been asked many times if I guide, but I do not guide commercially. I will take my friends and family out who are not that experienced, or who are looking to learn, and pole them all day long. My career just doesn't allow it, and though I enjoy it, I am out there for the personal experience and to get away from the business of life. All of us that own skiffs now the drill - it is a lot of work staying up late to get her ready for the next day, then getting up super early to make sure everything is a go, then fishing all day to maybe get one fish. Not every day is great fishing, but every day on the water is great.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

I took advantage of going through Capt Mike Adams class to get my six-pack license while working here in Crystal River.

Great course.


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## EasternGlow (Nov 6, 2015)

Dang that MMC is crisp and clean... Mine is semi-trashed


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

MariettaMike said:


> I took advantage of going through Capt Mike Adams class to get my six-pack license while working here in Crystal River.
> 
> Great course.
> 
> View attachment 19441


Bananas might melt the bottom of your document...


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

QUOTE="coconutgroves, post: 391652, member: 6766"]There are spots here on the TX coast where the guides ask if you can come on a Thursday / Friday or Monday / Tuesday to avoid the crowds. Shoot, Tues / Wed / Thurs are better. And for some strange reason, Mother Nature has decided that cold fronts only come through Texas on Friday nights! How that crazy pattern is true 9 out 10 times I have no idea.
QUOTE]

My main reason for suggesting to start out on the weekend only was to at least get a taste of how it is before leaving current job etc. If you were to interview someone the first week of the job and 6 months to a year later the responses are much different and that would go for all industries.
Also, to a previous post I guess I was thinking more so the fishery in my backyard (mosquito lagoon). I understand fish move but I feel you can still be very consistent as a weekend warrior


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Now that you've got that six pack license, we should talk about the things needed to actually use it, carrying passengers for hire (which is how the Coast Guard looks at it...)... We'll need another thread for that.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

There's no way in hell I would consider guiding. I get worn out from fishing the weekends hard.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

lemaymiami said:


> Now that you've got that six pack license, we should talk about the things needed to actually use it, carrying passengers for hire (which is how the Coast Guard looks at it...)... We'll need another thread for that.


If you took your OUPV courses they should have gone over and handed out the list of necessary gear and documents.


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

I tried it for a while about 10 years ago. I'm a teacher and had always worked a second job, so I thought that guiding on my breaks in the summer and at other times throughout the year was better than setting tile and/or waiting tables. I thought that helping novice anglers would appeal to the teacher side of me, while taking more experienced anglers would appeal to the fishing side of me. Truth is, it just became work. I didn't like the pressure of feeling like I HAD to find fish because someone had paid me to do so. I don't remember ever running a trip where we got blanked (although it certainly may have happened), but the pressure of it really took away the enjoyment for me. So I stopped doing it after a couple of years, and went back to waiting tables (and then delivering pizzas) on the side so I could afford to fish how, when, and where I wanted to. BTW, I did finally retire from working a second job this past July and get more time to fish!


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Have never thought of doing it, but have thought what would it be like. Don't have the knowledge or the skill in my fairly new to me home waters. My 2cents is that if you would rather see someone else catch a fish, then it may be an enjoyable vocation as well as being able to earn a living. I know the few times I have given a personally tied fly to someone, and they caught a fish, man that was cool. Or taking someone to a spot and they are successful, same thing. I would think if you have a service type of background and enjoyed it, then that would be a good indicator, like waitressing, bartending, etc. It's a way of life, not a job.


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## Viking1 (May 23, 2010)

First I take my hat off to anyone who is a full time professional guide for all the reasons already mentioned. You earn your money! I have had a passion to fish for as long as I could walk and people have asked me through my life why I did not guide. I knew for me it was not the right fit so I went the traditional job route. Nice thing is that now in my 50's I am retired and get to fish when and where I want. On the other side of the coin I see my son and his wife living their off grid dream up in Alaska and they are extremely happy. Bottom line is you need to decide what is best for you after weighing all the facts. Good luck in the decision that you and your fiance make.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Thought I would repost a past comment I made on a similar topic. 

Some thoughts on becoming a guide / captain.
I have been a full time Fly Fishing guide for over 20 years. I am also an outfitters that books for and employs many guides, some full time and some seasonal.

I do both river trips in one of the most demanding trout fisheries in the country and Salt water in Florida.

The single most important question to ask yourself and be honest about is whether or not you are cut out for the service business. Guiding is a business and you are providing a professional service.

If you could be a waiter, shop clerk, customer service rep. etc. and do your job every day with enthusiasm and a smile then you might be successful. You will also have to come to terms with the fact that everything you do is not about you. Everything is about providing safe recreation to a guest, providing knowledge about your area, honing your guests skills and making everyone feel that every moment of the day was about them.

At the end of the day the great guides that fill their calendars year after year get this and bust their balls to keep this level of service.

What I outlined above is the main reason that the big outfitters that have been around for a decade or two start all potential guides in the fly shop and lodge. In this setting you can observe the interaction and groom potential. Those who cannot thrive in the constant contact and problem solving of the shop will most likely struggle keeping customers happy when adversity hits on the water.

I think it is important for me to mention that I love what I do and could not see myself doing anything else. My client base is full of amazing people that I look forward to seeing and spending time with every year. So many of my guests have over time become like family and there are not many jobs that kindle these type of relationships.

Lastly I don't know of anyone who got rich guiding alone.. Guiding is simple math. If you want to make 100,000. a yr. you better know where 200+ full day booking are coming from. A great deal of the job is away from the water.

Ken T


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

lemaymiami said:


> Now that you've got that six pack license, we should talk about the things needed to actually use it, carrying passengers for hire (which is how the Coast Guard looks at it...)... We'll need another thread for that.


I hear you on that. Commercial insurance $1300, Florida Charter Captain License $200, commercial PFD’s $60, ...


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Ken T said:


> *snip*
> Lastly I don't know of anyone who got rich guiding alone.. Guiding is simple math. If you want to make 100,000. a yr. you better know where 200+ full day booking are coming from. A great deal of the job is away from the water.
> 
> Ken T


You hit on it - all guides I know have said the same thing. They ain't doing it to get rich. It is a lifestyle choice. Some of the tops guys out there get great perks from the companies they rep and also from the clients. Shoot, I know some guides who have rich clients who take them on fully paid trips across the world! Then there are guides who run entire operations and still guide themselves, like Dini. But that is the upper class, not the majority.

Guiding is for the love of the sport and lifestyle, not for cash $$$. Prices go from $450 to $700, but even at the high end, that $700 shrinks down pretty quickly when operating expenses are deducted. Guides do get guide pricing on gear and boats. A boat can be had a good enough discount where it can be sold 2 to 3 years later and still come out even or at a small profit. That money then rolls into a brand new boat and engine.

And although I have my own boats and can do trips myself, I love booking guides for trips. I make new friends, we share stories and expertise, and just the general talking shop is great. That's what is all about and I know many guides who feel the same way.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Pierson, going back to the original post and the reply where I had a few thread links where I also made comments, plus reading all these comments here (some very good ones), there is something to add to it.

You are a fly fisherman. Less than 5% of the fishing community are fly fishermen and even a lot of those still spin/conventional fish. So, to be on your game as a full time, not only do you need to be a master at boating, in every phase of it, a lot of people want to feel safe that you've had many years of boating experience and can handle your people and the boat in all sorts of diversities. Ask yourself if you have that experience. Next, down here in Tampa Bay, you don't have the luxury for a final destination, like Key West. So, with all the marketing you can conjur up, you'll only get so many booked trips with actual fly fishermen. The other days not booked, you need to decide if you are going to still run charters or not. If you still want to continue paying your bills, you need to be diverse enough to fish spinning guys with artificials and even bait. Even many fly guys will bring their kids or wife, who doesn't fly fish and it's up to you to provide a good time fishing for them as well. So not only do you need to be a master at fly fishing, but general fishing and also, a master at finding and catching your own bait and then using it properly. Basically, you need to be the "masterbaiter!" (had to throw that one in!  ) No seriously, it's the truth, unless you've built such a large base of fly anglers over the years like Ken T, that you can solely rely on it. I fished the other day with a friend that wants to guide on fly and he stated that he only wanted to guide fly only. That's great, but at least for the 1st 5 to 10yrs or so, you'd better have another source of income to help pay the bills.

Relationship wise with your honey, you'd either have to have a very understanding wife or one who is involved in your business, doing bookings and back office and marketing stuff, or both patient, understanding and involved. Otherwise, you be single in short order.

I've seen many great fishermen (and a few in your case that are great fly fishermen), go into it and fail. Reasons? It's your own business and they don't understand the concept about running a business. Also, going back to the comments I've made in those other threads, it's a people business and not all people are cut out for it, like guys like Steve, Ken T and Bob LeMay. I've also seen the reverse where they have great ideas on how to get customers, but can't fish (actually sucking at it, from a professional level) or even can find the fish to save their ass. So to be successful at it, you really need to be good at both, which takes many, many years at it and be that unique individual. And to do that, it means starting your day at sometimes 4:00am and then laying your head back down on the pillow at around midnight. Also, with trying to maintain a personal like with wife and kids having the weekends of to go do something, you are stuck fishing because clients want to fish weekends, since that may their only days off, including holidays. And during those days off, you better either know what the fish are doing or be on the water on your days off looking for the fish so that your clients will be "productive." Otherwise, you'll be dishing out that lame excuse again and again that... "welp, that's fishin for ya!" That's one of the best ways to loose repete business. The fish ARE there, somewhere, eating something! It's up to you how to find them and make it happen, no matter what the conditions are. You just have to be on top of them to know where they are and WHAT they are eating (especially with fly fishing).

Even then, you can be great at both and juggling both talents (business and the fishing) and still having somewhat a personal like with a with and raising a new family. That was me back in the 90's. At that point, I had many, many years of solid fishing, fly fishing, boating and people experience. I specialized in fly fishing for tarpon, reds and snook, from Tampa Bay, Boca Grade, Charlotte Harbor and the Everglades. During that 5 years from mid 90's to early 2000's, it was balls to the wall 24/7. Tuff life to raise a family with. Big expenses come up. Motor takes a crap, fuel prices go up thru the roof, you are traveling round trip up to 100+ miles to stay on top of the fish, marketing yourself till midnight, showing up for all the shows, etc. Then a huge, life changing event happens like 9/11 and everything comes to a screeching stop. The economy comes to a halt, everybody cancels their trips, no body's booking. But the bills continue to roll on in. So the wife gives you that look and you know you have to go out to get a regular civilian job to keep your head afloat. That takes you out of the picture long enough for the whole thing to collapes and then there is no going back.

That happened to me and I had lots of buddies that the same thing happened over the years. Like Cap Lemay mention, most that survived thru those times, don't have much of a personal life, or like Steve mention, they have another source of steady income coming in. Or like Ken T, you have another business and your wife is involved in both.

Just my 64 cents worth.

Ted Haas


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

To add a bit to that last post... I didn't come back to fishing for a living until I'd obtained a full pension (then out early at age 47...) and set monies aside for college for two kids.... With my wife working full time (and me and the kids on her healthcare policy)... we made ends meet - but it was always a struggle. I learned years later that the college money I'd set aside wasn't nearly enough (I guess most of us learn about that the hard way from what I've heard from friends....).

The job of guiding is pretty much what you make of it... I long ago chose to commute down to my fishing areas, starting in Biscayne Bay - then adding the Everglades. As I moved more and more into working out of Flamingo or Chokoloskee (mostly Flamingo...) my commuting turned into a marathon, towing my skiff nearly 200 miles round trip each day I was booked. Yep, 20 to 24,000 miles a year on the road (if you're claiming your vehicle mileage you have to keep a tow log so I know exactly how many miles I'm towing each day, or week, or year...). It adds almost four hours to my work day and goes something like this - Up at 4Am, on the road by 5, at the ramp by 7Am, off the water by 4Pm then home sometime between 6:30 and 7:00pm, down for the count by 10pm - then do it all over again the next day....

By comparison guides who work out of destination locations and actually live nearby not only have much shorter work days - but also get a lot more bookings since there's always lots of potential customers nearby....

Did I mention somewhere, "Be careful what you wish for"


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

lemaymiami said:


> Did I mention somewhere, "Be careful what you wish for"


So do you regret your decision? Would you do it all over again? Would you have wanted to start sooner? 

I understand the words of caution from everybody, and they are well deserved. But you are currently a fishing guide, so I need to hear it from you.

Again, thanks to everyone for the responses. This is obviously a heavily weighted topic and for good reason.

@Backwater Thank you for the response as well. That warrants a well thought out reply, but all I can do at the moment is soak it in as sound life advise. Thank you.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Hey Captain Lemay,

I've seen you post a couple times that you don't bonefish any longer. I was curious if that's because you like the Glades better, the Biscayne fishing has changed so much you don't like it, you just burned out on bonefishing? I just found it curious but I don't know the south Florida fishery so didn't know if there was a reason I should know without asking?

Thanks




lemaymiami said:


> To add a bit to that last post... I didn't come back to fishing for a living until I'd obtained a full pension (then out early at age 47...) and set monies aside for college for two kids.... With my wife working full time (and me and the kids on her healthcare policy)... we made ends meet - but it was always a struggle. I learned years later that the college money I'd set aside wasn't nearly enough (I guess most of us learn about that the hard way from what I've heard from friends....).
> 
> The job of guiding is pretty much what you make of it... I long ago chose to commute down to my fishing areas, starting in Biscayne Bay - then adding the Everglades. As I moved more and more into working out of Flamingo or Chokoloskee (mostly Flamingo...) my commuting turned into a marathon, towing my skiff nearly 200 miles round trip each day I was booked. Yep, 20 to 24,000 miles a year on the road (if you're claiming your vehicle mileage you have to keep a tow log so I know exactly how many miles I'm towing each day, or week, or year...). It adds almost four hours to my work day and goes something like this - Up at 4Am, on the road by 5, at the ramp by 7Am, off the water by 4Pm then home sometime between 6:30 and 7:00pm, down for the count by 10pm - then do it all over again the next day....
> 
> ...


've


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

My "thing" with bonefishing is pretty simple... I was introduced to them many years ago when it was easy to catch and release a half dozen fish on fly in a day (1974.. when there were only three guides for all of Biscayne Bay - and if you saw someone towing a bonefish skiff on the highway it was an unusual sight...). Fast forward all these years later and there are many more guides working the Bay - and for every guide there's a weekend warrior who's just as well equipped and knows all the flats as well... I got tired of showing anglers a bunch of fish - that ran from us before we ever got near them... so I retreated back into the 'Glades and haven't looked back.

I can still find big tailers - but that's not the same as guiding others to them. The poor fish are under so much pressure in Biscayne Bay these days that I make a point of not fishing there during daylight hours, period. I still do quite a few night charters for snook and tarpon - in fact I came off the water this morning at around 3Am (we were hunting tarpon in docklights an under bridges and jumped two of them on fly....).

If I had never fished them years ago when things were so much different I might never have felt about it the way I do today... The Bay is just a different place now - compared to what it was in the seventies....


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Some call it progress 

Thanks for the explanation and I can understand the sentiment. Glades sounds like a really cool place and next time I make it over I'll hopefully book a charter with you.




lemaymiami said:


> My "thing" with bonefishing is pretty simple... I was introduced to them many years ago when it was easy to catch and release a half dozen fish on fly in a day (1974.. when there were only three guides for all of Biscayne Bay - and if you saw someone towing a bonefish skiff on the highway it was an unusual sight...). Fast forward all these years later and there are many more guides working the Bay - and for every guide there's a weekend warrior who's just as well equipped and knows all the flats as well... I got tired of showing anglers a bunch of fish - that ran from us before we ever got near them... so I retreated back into the 'Glades and haven't looked back.
> 
> I can still find big tailers - but that's not the same as guiding others to them. The poor fish are under so much pressure in Biscayne Bay these days that I make a point of not fishing there during daylight hours, period. I still do quite a few night charters for snook and tarpon - in fact I came off the water this morning at around 3Am (we were hunting tarpon in docklights an under bridges and jumped two of them on fly....).
> 
> If I had never fished them years ago when things were so much different I might never have felt about it the way I do today... The Bay is just a different place now - compared to what it was in the seventies....


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