# The Terrapin Dragonfly



## Guest (Oct 27, 2007)

Man,they are coming out of the all over the place !yet another good looking boat any price???


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## fatalbert43 (Dec 13, 2006)

Any idea what the thru hull fitting on the side is for?


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I saw that skiff down at the inside boat at Flamingo two weeks ago and talked to Ashley about it. That fitting up under the gunnel is probably the fuel vent, the prototype has an 8 gallon fuel tank and the fill is just above it... The interesting thing that they've done while making a few changes from the original was to make it a bit wider to accommodate a built in under gunnel splash rail on both sides. These boys have actually spent a lot of time fishing this type of skiff and knew what they wanted. Now if it were only a bit shorter...


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

> Any idea what the thru hull fitting on the side is for?


hatch drains????


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2007)

> > Any idea what the thru hull fitting on the side is for?
> 
> 
> hatch drains????



Looks too low. :-/ :-/ But she should float pretty high. 

Based on the "original" design they have some things I like and others I don't.


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## fatalbert43 (Dec 13, 2006)

I am liking what they have done here. I would love to ride/fish that boat to see haw it performs. I have heard good things, but I would want to see for myself.


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

Is that Capt Dave's Boat ?


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Yes MATT it is...

"Capt.Dave Sutton. ontheflatscharters.com... Florida fishing guide... Outdoor writer.... Owner of the new "TERRAPIN BOAT CO"

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=180588114

http://terrapinskiffs.com/


Terrapin Skiff Boat Company Inc.
Welcome to Terrapin Skiffs.
We are in the process of building a fine web site with photo's and video's of our new "Dragonfly" model skiff with other models to follow.

We will be introducing a newly designed micro skiff to the market.

Here is a brief breakdown on the skiff;
length- 18'4"
beam at water line 51"
Beam at deck 58"
Draft with a Honda BF20, 7 gals. of fuel, a Frigid Rigid cooler, gear and two average anglers @ 180 pounds each- 3.5 inches
Top speed 30+ MPH with one angler
26 MPH with two anglers
21 MPH with three anglers

Please stay tuned for more info.


or call Capt. Dave Sutton with any questions
Contact Information
Email : [email protected]
Phone : 786-564-6347


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

These pictures are nice but a little deceiving. The boat  in the pictures is sitting on a borrowed trailor. The new trailor which was just made for the new dragonfly  is just in. Dave's Dragonfly is yellow, and has the new trailor. There are pictures on www.terrapinskiffs.com.    www.ontheflatscharters.com


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

Julie love your art.


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

Thank you very much Matt. I am in the middle of building a website.Should be up in a few days. www.juliesuttonmarineart.com ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Welcome to the forum [smiley=beer.gif]

Art looks good too. http://www.myspace.com/julieasutton


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks for the update and welcome to the forum. [smiley=1-beer.gif]


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## jaxflatsfisherman (Nov 18, 2007)

That boat looks awesome.


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## Skinnyreds (Jan 23, 2007)

Is it me or does this resemble a GS with sponsons?


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2007)

> Is it me or does this resemble a GS with sponsons?


No secret.


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## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

> Is it me or does this resemble a GS with sponsons?


It's also lacking the Gander Mountain Abortion boat wrap.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2007)

Nice little skiffoe!


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## JoeWelbourn (Dec 11, 2006)

News Flash! TerraPin Dragonfly and TillerPillar just matched. I shipped Capt Dave a TillerPillar yesterday. We are discussing making several of the accessories for the Terrapin Dragonfly in carbon fiber. Capt Dave likes the look and utility of carbon fiber for the platforms and and grab/hand rails. I will keep you posted.


Joe


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## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

Dave sutton has lost all my respect, taking peoples work is wrong.


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## thresher (Dec 18, 2006)

I have been in many a GS (well, ok, three, but HOURS and HOURS worth of 'em) and that, sir is no Glades Skiff. And you know me.... I am MISTER Black Helicopter!


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2008)

> Dave sutton has lost all my respect, taking peoples work is wrong.



Please explain. I understand the issue of producing a skiff that's already on the market but I'm willing to bet you purchase from Walley World. Product produced for the big box stores - mostly manufactured offshore yet the US continues to accept it with open arms. They only care about "which is cheaper" or should I say "appears cheaper"? This is only one example and don't get me started. I'm willing to bet Dave is a US Citizen or is it "so much for a free country"?

[smiley=soapbox.gif] is clear.


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

I don't really understand where this recent phenomenon came from that everyone thinks only HB can produce a small narrow poling skiff. I mean is everyone really forever banned from making a small, narrow, no slap, poling skiff? So we can only have a gheenoes, gladesmans, and a glades skiff for time eternal? I don't really think there are that many more variations possible? Isn't the original HB based off of a challenger or wind river skiff or something? So why are we not mad at HB for taking an idea and modifying it? From what i can tell...Dave Sutton started with a design concept he liked and made what he believes to be improvements...ie sponsons, different shear on the front, etc. Does anyone have proof that he flipped over a HB GS and copied the hull? Think of all the skiffs that look like the Hewes desings! In the end boats are still boats and the rules of hydrodynamics still apply. Im sure i could come up with more examples but i think the message is clear.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

X2 

Well Said


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## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

Captnron was nice enough to scrub off all the wax on the Whipray before he sold it to me. [smiley=faga1.gif]


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2008)

> I don't really understand where this recent phenomenon came from that everyone thinks only HB can produce a small narrow poling skiff. I mean is everyone really forever banned from making a small, narrow, no slap, poling skiff? So we can only have a gheenoes, gladesmans, and a glades skiff for time eternal? I don't really think there are that many more variations possible? Isn't the original HB based off of a challenger or wind river skiff or something? So why are we not mad at HB for taking an idea and modifying it? From what i can tell...Dave Sutton started with a design concept he liked and made what he believes to be improvements...ie sponsons, different shear on the front, etc. Does anyone have proof that he flipped over a HB GS and copied the hull? Think of all the skiffs that look like the Hewes desings! In the end boats are still boats and the rules of hydrodynamics still apply. Im sure i could come up with more examples but i think the message is clear.



Well part I agree with and part I don't. 

All boats basically have a bow and a stern for our purposes.

The HB1 IMHO was an original design with a new and different concept in construction techniques. They raised the bar and manufacturers have been trying to duplicate that image since. Again, it's MHO.

Hewes was an original concept but was derived from "splashing" a performance ski boat and creating a topside suitable for flats fishing. Love those "lappies" to this day. 

I don't think it's any secret that the Terrapin is splashed but I could be wrong. They feel that they have made enough "improvement" to steer clear of the legal issues IMHO.

The legal rules for "copies" don't just cover "shape". It includes design change, construction techniques a materials. I wouldn't be surprise if a builder were to chime in and clean my statements up some.


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## ucfsae81 (Dec 5, 2007)

the boat looks great but it looks like all the other microskiff makers out there except it need the great "Gander Mountain" boat wrap.

but with all the competition now out there prices are going to get pretty competitive especially with the economy slowing down a little this year

I thought dave sutton was sponsered by panga. I was on their website awhile back and saw a video of him testing drive one and explaining how great they were, cigar and everything. 

good luck to him


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

Okay,here we go. I will try to the best of my knowledge to address some of these issues. 
#1 Taking peoples jobs???   You must be kidding right! Not only has the production of this boat created jobs,it has created revenue for many, many, product dealers, Manufacturers, photographers, etc. I'm not even going to try to go any further with this one!  ;D Now I know why people don't put their real names on forums. If they did they would think about what they post!
#2 Legally the boat is more  different than it has to be. Lots of things that are not visible in a picture. has anyone actually taken the time to compare in detail before they post these remarks. I read this stuff and I know you have not compared,because if you had, you would not say some of these things.
Example: Dave recently had a hb owner look over the Terrapin. This man had been quite rude to him when introduced. They spent at least an hour talking and checking out the boat. When he was done he turned to Dave and said "I owe you an apology". He shook Dave's hand and said he was sorry for the rude treatmend when first introduced. He said that it was easy to see that the Terrapin is designed by someone who really fishes. There are huge differences in this boat that are not initially visible. 
I could go on but it is probably a waste of my time.

#3 Invitation: I don't know where all of you live. Why don't you pick a couple of people  to come over and see the boat? Check it out and talk to Dave.  No hard feelings just an open mind. Preferably not someone who has lost all respect for him because he "took peoples jobs."

#4 Note: It may be just a co incidence but last Tuesday I was in Bass Pro looking for a birthday present for Dave. I ended up spending most of my time with Capt. Bill Curtis who sold me some nice fly's, and was sweet enough to co-sign Dave's birthday card. We had a nice talk about just this issue. he said" When Flip Pallett first sold Hells bay the  molds were sold. (his memory failed him about who).Those molds have been used to make perfect hells bay copies ever since. Then someone bought HB and just this year has just started production again."There are hells bay copies all over the place," he said.( Fact: When Dave designed the Terrapin, HB boats were not even in production.) Wow I bet nobody thought about that!
Now, this is just his opinion and some of you will disagree for sure, but I am pretty sure Bill knows what he is talking about.  He has forgotten more than most of us know.
There are shallow waterskiffs all over the place. I don't remember all the skuttlebutt about those. I was probably just not paying enough attention.
The only reason I can find that this Terrapin has upset anyone is because it is not over priced ! 
#5 Dave Sutton was sponsored by Panga. It is a real nice boat and he is still involved in a lesser capacity, for now, maybe more in the future. If that has anything to do with a micro skiff someone will have to explain it to me.Yes, He fishes offshore but  obviously will never stop flats fishing. 
#6 Please be advised I am not writing this in anger ( well maybe a little about the "jobs" thing! ). I really feel that some people are uninformed and should take the opportunity to get informed. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and there will be many, but it should be an educated opinion.
Tight lines and best fishes!


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

" Now I know why people don't put their real names on forums. If they did they would think about what they post! "

From someone who has grown up fishing South Florida and the Keys tell Dave I said Happy Birthday !! The remarks on this form are not shared by all the members. I have gotten to know some good men on this site and hope you and Dave continue to add your .02 you both have a wealth of knowledge and I have looked forward to reading your post.

also my name is MATT on this form and others also on my Florida fishing Lic.


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## ucfsae81 (Dec 5, 2007)

nice comments, I'm glad I wasn't imagining capt. dave driving a panga. I saw pangamarine come out with a new 14' or 16' and just assumed that they would want him to push for that boat on the flats. good luck with the boats, its a lot like cars in where you can't see the difference until you drive them.

Would it be possible for me to meet capt. dave so he can show me how he is able to smoke a cigar while driving and fishing and not have ashes all over the place.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2008)

> #3 Invitation: I don't know where all of you live. Why don't you pick a couple of people to come over and see the boat? Check it out and talk to Dave. ...


I'm going to put this on my list of things that probably wont get done.  But I'm gonna try.


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

Actually Dave does get ashes all over, usually on me. 
Seriously though, he usually only lights up after the fishing!
Of course you could meet him. I just invited you guys to come over and talk with him about the boat. Just e-mail through his site (www.ontheflatscharters.com) because he is a tough guy to get an appointment with. I even have to make an appointment to go to Flamingo! When he has a day off though, he is in his office catching up. He talks to people all day. If you want to come buy, I know it would be welcomed. Dave is a people person. He loves to talk about fishing and anything else anyone wants to talk about. Someone recently told me he was intimidated by Dave until he met him. Then he said he realised he was "all wrong" about that. We had so much fun that evening. we sat and talked for hours. I will let him know that he may be contacted about a visit to check out the Dragonfly.


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## ucfsae81 (Dec 5, 2007)

thanks, sounds good


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

By the way. Thanks for all the positive comments about my artwork. 
I will be at "Art Under The Oaks"in Tavernier in January19th. It is a wonderful art show, probably the nicest I have ever done, at the san Pablo Catholic Church.Booth#115. Food, music, etc.Big show, lots to choose from. At this time Dave is coming to spend the day with me. Stop by and say hello.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Julie, Capt. Dave,

First I just got home from running 100nm in Flamingo and am trying to enjoy a nice cool Yuengling before I jump in the shower. So sorry in advance if this rambles a bit. 

BTW - Lots of dead fish there for those who have not been to mingo since the cold snap. Boat ramp basin is rather pungent. But not a bad day, lots of reds, snook, trout and "other" fish were caught. =)

I believe the problem you are mentioning regarding the "it's a copy" really comes back to the problem with another manufacture who's name I won't utter. This manufacture did a "copy & paste" but claimed it was their own design. Well they got hammered and rightfully so. Over time they have tried to amend their statement and have produced several variants of the original design since.

Folks have become sensitive to skiffs showing up on the market that look on the outside like another manufactures skiff. One bad apple spoiled the bunch. 

The other company you have mentioned is the polar opposite of the first company I mentioned. He has been very successful but was always honest and up front on where the boat mold came from, even naming it the same as it's predecessor. He purchased the molds not pull a copy then call it his own. Honesty has gained him respect.

This topic could go one for pages, but the point I'm trying to make is that folks are a bit sensitive. I for one fall in that category. BUT I also see the microskiff market as a place for opportunity with lots of room for everyone. I've said it once and I'll say it again. Competition is GREAT! I believe that if a manufacture is honest about their skiff and produces a quality product for the right price they will do tremendous! I believe you folks are on that tract! 

I hope to see our skiff in person one day. I don't believe pictures do it justice.

BTW, was the skiff at Don's this morning? Stopped in to get a few scrimp and saw a microskiff without motor. It was dark and figured it best not to snoop around back. So I just purchased the dozens and left. 

Cheers
iMacattack - Jan


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks for your post. Bill said he could not remember names but may have chosen no to name drop which is admirable. I don't really want to know that kind of other peoples business anyway.

I have been to Flamingo!!
Last sunday Dave and I went alone. It was bad an dit was obvious the fish had not recovered form the cold.Saw 2 dead goliaths about 30 lbs. Had one red on and lost it.

Went back yesterday in the 25 so we could run out to the rockpile. On the way by we checked out east Cape canal which was lined with dead snook. There were a couple of tarpon there but that is about it.Fish still not recovered. 

The rockpile was full of bluefish that we caught until we got sick of them. We had friends with us so they had fun,but I do not go to the rockpile for bluefish. Water temp was 65 there.We stayed late and ran back through the inside in the moonless dark using nav. system and a flashlight to locate markers. It was fun. I wanted to camp there and be there at 5 am! But nobody would have gone for that.

Now we are getting another cold front. I am concerned for the fish in Flamingo. They are my friends. Hope we don't have more die off. I am dying for a great Flamingo day.Glad to hear someone caught fish.


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## bamaflyfish (Apr 16, 2007)

> Dave sutton has lost all my respect, taking peoples work is wrong.



Capitalism stinks!  I will vote for any presidential candidate who calls for a government issued boat...One size fits all! 

Or maybe competition is good???


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

The boat at Don's may have been Ashley's. Was it gray? If so it is a Terrapin. he keeps it on his old trailor,which may have added to the initial confusion. 
There is a trailor Dave had made for the Terrapin, that he has for his yellow one. It is the one on the website.
I feel Dave has been very honest about the Terrapin.He has even put the manufacturing process pictures up on the site for everyone to see. There are no secrets and it is all there for the world to look at. The initial reaction just may have been because of the gray boat on Ashley's old trailor, now that I think about it,it is probably all my fault. :-/ I am the first one to post a picture. And damaging Dave's rep was certainly not my intention. 
You can all just blame me.


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## beavis (Dec 11, 2006)

Just saw the new Terrapin website. Boat and the website look great!

Ignore Orlgheynoer, he has more pimples than brain cells.


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## Apollobeachsam (Dec 14, 2006)

Great looking skiff!


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

My wife is standing here checking out the new site too. She likes the names Terapin and Dragon Fly. She want to know if you guys are a bunch of hippies ;D She is looking for friends like herself. [smiley=laughing-out-loud1.gif] Seriously, nice site. Boat looks great too.


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

I guess you could say we are hippies,but slightly evolved as we had no choice. Our 40's and our early 50's have been the best time of our lives. Wish we had done some of these things when we were younger. I personally wish I had been fishing this much when I was younger. I didn't get into this untill we moved to Florida. We are young of heart,and always will be. Busier than our kids sometimes.
We did see the 60's though. : But were too young to do any damage.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Sutton has a great little skiff there!!


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

The side console is being rigged today!


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Pictures PLEASE!!!! ;D


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2008)

> Pictures PLEASE!!!! ;D


Maybe it's time for Julie to post pictures in the "Shill Zone"?


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

Isn't the original HB based off of a challenger or wind river skiff or something?


if you are ever lucky enough to see a wind river you will notice the hull looks very familiar! one might even say it resembles  the great all original hb! things that make you say hmmm. with just allittle more free board-nothing a sawzall and little fiberglass couldn't fix. i hate to bust all you hb lovers bubble but- POP!  there it is i guess the tar and feathers are next for me? and for all the hb fans that think they were the first high tech cored skiff check out the history on willy roberts-goes way back- 80's ish. capt. brian p. had one of the original slow pokes you could see the print thru on the deck of the core scoring. my point is that all boats pull/splash from past designs -nosplash,sideconsole, coring,vacum bagging, infusion-its all been done before-its evolution. take something good and try to make it better with some of your own ideas. now that other unmentionable company flat out copied an original and tried to make it cheaper-that is the difference to me . and to julie, curtis knew who he was refering to and from i have been told that man earned the molds, hell he probally made them- i believe they were consider part of his back pay from the settlement with hb. capt. dave and julie the boat looks great keep up the good work.  just my .02


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## julie (Nov 26, 2007)

Side console is now available. www.terrapinskiffs.com


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

> Isn't the original HB based off of a challenger or wind river skiff or something?
> 
> 
> if you are ever lucky enough to see a wind river you will notice the hull looks very familiar! one might even say it resembles the great all original hb! things that make you say hmmm. with just allittle more free board-nothing a sawzall and little fiberglass couldn't fix. i hate to bust all you hb lovers bubble but- POP! there it is i guess the tar and feathers are next for me? and for all the hb fans that think they were the first high tech cored skiff check out the history on willy roberts-goes way back- 80's ish. capt. brian p. had one of the original slow pokes you could see the print thru on the deck of the core scoring. my point is that all boats pull/splash from past designs


Hells Bay was not a copy of Wind River, Challenger, Willy Roberts or anything else that I'm aware of... How do I know? Well, I have a Challenger and have seen Wind River and Slo-Pokes up close. The only history of Hells Bay, Wind River and Challengers is that Flip Pallot used to run a Challenger. He then took a Challenger and made a mold approx. 10" wider and the Wind River was born. He also had a hand in the design of the Hells Bay Whipray, but the HB mold wasn't from any Previous skiff that I know of. 

You're correct about early foam cored boats, as my Challenger (82) is foam cored and extremely light. 

I'll post a few pics, so you can see the difference between the 3 skiffs.

Wind River Skiff: Notice the downward sloping bow, lack of integrated spray rails and high gunnels.





























Challenger: Downward sloping bow, high gunnels, narrow rear. (Notice how the Wind River looks exactly like a Challenger, but wider). The Wind River is also a square chine (Challenger made round chine and square chine skiffs) , my Challenger is a round chine model.




























Hells Bay: Lower gunnels, built in spray deflectors, bow does not slope down at all, hull bottom has a totally different nose. I don't believe the HB was popped from anything... Sure, some ideas were used, but the hull is of original design as far as I know. I'd like to see a picture of one hull pre-1998 that the HB could've used for a popped copy... I don't think you'll find one.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Excellent Post! 

BTW I love those classics. Your Challenger is da bomb! I remember watching your build progress on FS. What a sweet ride! Thanks for preserving a bit of shallow water history 

Cheers


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

ditto on preserving a little history, I plan to do that with my Mitchell skiff one of these days, hopefully sooner than later. 

I saw, I mean slobbered over Snookdaddy's boat in Choko a couple weeks ago and its superb. I almost picked up a fixer-upper Challenger myself, this would have been around 87-88, a guy in Homestead had it. I forget the year, but I passed thinking it was too much work. Which it was, but I still regret not getting it. Definitely one of the throw-back skiffs that actually perform with the best of them. - eric


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