# Finally a real microskiff (sundowner explorer)



## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Like the title says I finally got a real micro.  After fishing in cmusics (prevously Southbounds) Mud minnow I wanted one for myself.  After an couple week search there was none to be found.  Then a few days ago my buddy cmusic said his niehbors father had a sundowner explorer (cross between Gheenoe and Mud minnow)..... so off we went to look at it.  It took me all of  2 minutes to decide I wanted it.  

On first glance it looks to be in pretty good shape but sundowner was apparently a poor boat manufacture (You will see what I mean)

I bought the boat with the intention on making it everything I wanted, because I love the hull design and after today that is the only thing that is any good on it. 


Before
















































After a close inspection it had multiple soft spots all over the decks and false floor so tear down was initiated.
















The brown wet stuff is the totally rotten wood coming out








This is what the false floor was made of and it was supported by "flotation foam"
















































This boat is a 1998 in just 12 short years all of the wood is rotten and the "closed cell Flotation foam" is waterlogged. no Flotation foam will go back into this boat. I will be keeping a detailed photo record for you guys to enjoy this was only day one. 

I will also be keeping a detailed price list of all materials with actual cost and retailers that I will post once it is water ready. Time frame for completion is 61 days (dec. 1).


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

looks very interesting [smiley=1-mmm.gif] for the most part the hull looks like it came from the same mold that the minnow came from, the bow has more of a fin & feather look to it though . you didnt mess around with it too much and just dived right in head first  kinda wonder why you didnt pick up the mud from cmusic and carry the torch??


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

I wanted the Mud but I didn't have the funds when he was selling it. This one was right up my alley I've always had more skill than money. Did you get a new motor? that looks like a yami 4stk


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## copperhead (May 30, 2008)

I strongly disagree about not putting flotation foam back in!


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

> I wanted the Mud but I didn't have the funds when he was selling it.  This one was right up my alley I've always had more skill than money.  Did you get a new motor? that looks like a yami 4stk


 naw man i still got the merc 2 smoke ;D that pic was taken before i bought it


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## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

That floor was strange, plywood tiles. I agree with Mel about not putting in foam, get the correct two part foam and it won't be a problem. Small boat like that should be less than $100 to do. That will be a fun little boat when you are done. Enjoy the rebuild.

Swamp


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

The guy who was redoing my old trihull skiff for me said that it's best to use small tiles like that.
I don't remember why he said, but that's how his company does everything.
He had did the transom in SpaceAge just like that on the trihull. 


But yeah, the gallon kit of the two part "closed cell foam" is under $100. 
And it's two gallons, one of each A and B.
It was around $80 if I recall.


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## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

I must be missing something. I don't see how that could be an advantage unless you had an uneven surface to work with, like working with balsa core on a curved part of the hull. Different application though. All I can see is that you loose rigidity in the floor. But like I said I'm probably missing something...


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Small, square core materials are an old technique,
meant to ensure bonding to the uneven fiberglass surface underneath.
Plwood in it's original full panel size often has inherent curves
that makes for problems in bonding to the existing deck/hull surface.
Cutting the panel into small squares minimizes the effect of the curvature,
while still giving rigidity to the finished fiberglass panel.
The bad news is, that all those joints between the squares
allowed water leakage to migrate throughout the core material.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Thats a cool looking hull, youll have that thing looking sick in no time


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

I took out the Carolina Skiff today instead of working on the sundowner and for once I actually regret going fishing, it was so windy up here in Fernandina you could hardly cast.

Those wood tiles you see were had a thin sheet of fiberglass layed over the top of them that was already cured and then bonded with a thin coat of resin. And the foam underneath was soaked with an estimated 75+ gallons of water based on simple volume calculations. At 8.35 pounds per gallon that makes over 600 pounds of weight I don't need nor do I want to have happen again.

I will not be using flotation foam due to the fact that no manufacture makes any that is actually waterproof. It stops water from making its way out of the boat and adds a lot of weight. I do however hold fellow microskiffers opinions high and will take it into consideration when the time comes.

As for the boat design it will get a very similar layout as it was before except for the grab bar console and poling platform. 

I am going to try some house foam insulation out on my console for the grab bar if it bonds and works well enough I will use it for the decks. I have a piece of composite foam core from another project that I will be comparing strength and rigidity to. I do not expect it to be as strong but we will see.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> I took out the Carolina Skiff today instead of working on the sundowner and for once I actually regret going fishing, it was so windy up here in Fernandina you could hardly cast.
> 
> Those wood tiles you see were had a thin sheet of fiberglass layed over the top of them that was already cured and then bonded with a thin coat of resin.  And the foam underneath was soaked with an estimated 75+ gallons of water based on simple volume calculations. At 8.35 pounds per gallon that makes over 600 pounds of weight I don't need nor do I want to have happen again.
> 
> ...


You can always use styrofoam.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Yep usse styrofoam. It's water proof, and has better floatation characteristics then 2-part.


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## Gator_Bob (Jun 26, 2007)

If you need free styrofoam, locate a furniture store. Most of the furniture is shipped with thin sheets of the stuff and they throw it in the dumpster.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

With Styrofoam do I have to glue it down or just fill the voids with it?


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## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

Be careful, I've found some Styrofoam that absorbs a ton of water. Not all of it does. I think it can get trapped in between the beads depending on the foam.


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## bostick29412 (Apr 17, 2009)

Man, you jumped right on that thing. Looking forward to watching your progress. Best of luck!


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## HialeahAngler (Dec 18, 2008)

sweet little skiff.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

I spent some more time prepping my hull today and made a test piece of fiberglass cored with house insulation foam......
from this angle it just looks like a poor fiberglass job...








But as you can see here, there is an apparent clash of chemicals.
















Needless to say I will not be using this foam instead I will be using plywood.  It is not what I wanted, but I just don't have the funds for the real stuff unless you guys know of a place I can get it cheap?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I wouldn't suggest using that foam either way, but what type of resin are you using? If it is polyurethane resin then thats why it happened cause that stuff will eat up foam, if you are using epoxy resin (which is the only thing I will use) then you would be fine as far as laminating goes.

Also if you get the styrofoam sheets from any box store, the kind that looks like a cooler (polystyrene I believe), then you will be ok as far as any water absorbtion goes. Just fill the voids with the stuff before you close them up and your boat will be good to go.


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## Gator_Bob (Jun 26, 2007)

Fill the voids and encase it so that it will stay in place. There are a lot of ways to do this. Much depends on the location.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Alright glass gurus I need some help.  I decided to make my grab bar console first to work on my non-existent glass skills.  
This picture below is the basic form








this is the FG im using








My question is how do I wrap it around the corners (90 degrees) every-time I do it, the glass separates from the corner. is the glass mat to thick? I am pre-wetting the wood and the glass. The flat surfaces work great I just cant get the corners to lay flat without air bubbles I even tried reducing the hardener amount to give me more time to work them out.

I know many of you have knowledge I need so thanks in advance for the replys.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Are your corners rounded or 90*? FG doesn't like to make tight turns, so you have two options. 

1. Mix a small batch of epoxy into a putty, like you would for fillets and lay it on the corners before the glass. Lay the glass over like normal & the putty will fill the voids.

2. Take a sander, router with roundover bit or rasp to create a beveled edge. Once the end has a nice round over to it, lay the glass like normal.

I have to ask though, why are you using woven roving glass? From my limited experience and research, biaxial or standard woven glass is used in that situation.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

They are a straight 90 degrees, that what I thought thanks for the input, I'm using wovin roving because my dad had a bunch of it and right now Im using up all of my freebies when I have to go buy some it will be bi axle.  This little console was also so I could practice a little without wasting a bunch of money on materials.  Is this Glass not strong enough?


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

For the console, I think it will be fine. The wood should provide the majority of the strength anyhow. What weight is the roving?

I wouldn't use the roving in any structural applications, but for consoles, hatch lids, etc. it's good to go.

It sounds like you have it under control & a great idea to learn with freebies!


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I highly suggest you stay away from the roving.
I understand it's a freebie, but it will take much more resin than using 1708.
When I was rebuilding my tri-hull, we began using roving.
It was taking up so much resin it was incredible.

I also used it because it was free.
My buddies father had a whole roll at his boat shop that he no longer used.

I got annoyed looking at the roving on my front deck so I tried peeling it off and it all came right off.
I replaced it with 1708 and it was extremely strong, great bond, easier to soak in resin and was a wholeeee lot easier to work with too. 

And as Scott mentioned above, round the edges before laying the glass.
It will get rid of the air pockets.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Okay I know its not much of an update but funds are tight right now so I'm doing what I can.

I ground off the edges where the air pockets were and rounded all the corners.  I used some different glass that was thinner and proceeded to redo it,  It came out a lot better the second time around.  

I still have a lot of sanding to do but here is the basic shape.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

A little better update today.

I spent a little time in my dads machine shop today and made the mounting pads for my grab bar.  They are not machined only cut and drilled with normal tools with the eyeball method. (no point in spending 2 hours machining them within a thousandth of an inch for a fishing boat)

Note the countersink bit I'm using...it makes close enough metal work look professional ;D







  
I also cut the holes for my GPS and tackle locker I figured I should do this before all the finish work is complete so I can cover any mistakes that might happen.








I will be mounting welding the grab bar to the pads on top.
















This is the planned layout








If all goes to plan, tomorrow I will be welding the grab bar up and my aluminum boat so I can sell it for some project funds.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

look'n sweet, keep up the great work and keep the pics a come'n


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

The Grab bar is complete.
































It will end up powder coated white but not until I build the poling platform to go with it.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Looking pretty good, did you replace the foam and floor yet?

I'd round the corners on the grab bars mounting plates. Cause if theres one thing I've found it's that any place you can slice your hand open, no matter how unlikely, you will .


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

I have not done the floor yet, I don't have the money to buy my materials yet so I have been doing what I can with the stuff I have already acquired, and the aluminum work is almost free between my dad's machine shop and cousin's welding shop.

I welded up my aluminum Jon where the cracks were so I can sell it, as soon as I do, the progress will really begin.

The grab bar will get the corners and edges smoothed out this will also help the powder coat from chipping off. Firecat you are right about getting cut and line snags on just about anything, I will try to keep sharp edges to a minimum, but if I miss something you guys catch please let me know. I probably would not even be doing this resto/rebuild if I never found this site.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Well the project is dead :'( I just don't have the time to complete it. It always seems when I have the time, I don't have a project and when I don't I have 20 ;D. If you want to pick up where I left off, its for sale, check the classified section.


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## levip (Dec 4, 2010)

what about the pink stuff?? comes 2" thick epoxy wont mess with it and im pretty sure it wont take on water ?
- let me put it this way we had a sheet laying in a very wet mudhole on a job site for about 6 months and one day out of curiousity i picked it up and the was no water in it at all i was shocked (we used it for a walk way across said mudhole )


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## levip (Dec 4, 2010)

bummer man


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Back from the dead. I started this project 7 years ago and never finished it. Since then I've started a new career, gotten married and had two children. All the while this boat sat off in the bushes rotting away. 

I finally decided to have it professionally restored, and to do that I needed a trailer to get it to the shop. So I built one from scratch, all aluminum and stainless hardware. The trailer dimensions where all made to fit this boat, notice the dovetail at the end to follow the boat's lines.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

The boat is now at Wildside Boat Works getting a top notch rebuild. All composite material, new transom, super beefy stringers, live wells, molded hatches, you name it. the only progress pic of the boat I have right now is the stringer mock up. More to follow.


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

Wow, that was a big seven years! Look forward to more pics, and congrats on career, marriage, and kids.


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## Throw Plastic (Aug 11, 2017)

zthomas said:


> Wow, that was a big seven years! Look forward to more pics, and congrats on career, marriage, and kids.


Awesome thread. Ditto.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm impressed, never seen anyone build their own trailer from scratch. And it looks nice.


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

I may be wrong, but it appeared that the bunks?? that you had on your aluminum trailer might have been Treated Lumber. If so, Treated Lumber and aluminum can react to each other. Your aluminum trailer will corrode and lose strength. Hope I am wrong.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

richg99 said:


> I may be wrong, but it appeared that the bunks?? that you had on your aluminum trailer might have been Treated Lumber. If so, Treated Lumber and aluminum can react to each other. Your aluminum trailer will corrode and lose strength. Hope I am wrong.



You are correct. Those are simple wood bunks, but temporary. I did not have the aluminum beams in time I needed to get the boat to the fiberglass shop. They will get swapped out for aluminum beams and UHMW strips before it gets splashed.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

When I made my grab bar the pipe bender wouldn't do a full continues bend? I had to bend 2 separate pieces and weld them together at the center. Maybe the tubing I used was too heavy?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

I had the other model but it had bench seats and no fslse floor in it was a good little boat for what it was


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> When I made my grab bar the pipe bender wouldn't do a full continues bend? I had to bend 2 separate pieces and weld them together at the center. Maybe the tubing I used was too heavy?



I used this bender with sch40 pipe. https://www.greenleestore.com/produ...JYUL-tpfhMpQdsWf-Cwc1xY0NO-FHjroaAnJMEALw_wcB . Were you using a hydraulic bender?


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Backcountry 16 said:


> I had the other model but it had bench seats and no fslse floor in it was a good little boat for what it was
> View attachment 14450


I've never seen that model, do you have any more pics? Thanks for sharing


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)




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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

It was the same boat it was called a navigator instead of explorer my cousin has one also but added a small center console and 40 2 stroke Merc.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

New boat goodies just showed up today. Atlas Micro Jacker pre-wired, and self contained.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Its been a long time coming, but I splashed the boat last night and again this morning. So here is a pic dump. I rigged the boat, the sea deck is cut by hand, its not perfect but its mine and I don't owe a dime!


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## GoGataGo52__20 (Jun 26, 2016)

Sweet skiff man, if you don’t owe anythin and it gets you fishin it is perfect to me! What ho mercury do you have on the end of it?


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## GoGataGo52__20 (Jun 26, 2016)

Also what speed u get man?


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

GoGataGo52__20 said:


> Also what speed u get man?


Thanks! 25hp with 13p vengeance stainless prop about 31mph WOT


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## GoGataGo52__20 (Jun 26, 2016)

Sweet, I bet you get in some skinny water too.


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## Tonyskiff (Jan 7, 2018)

Awesome boat!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Joshua, what area do you live?

From what I can tell, the Sundowner Explorers were made in Bradenton.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

wow! You def made that your own, Nice work.


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

Backwater said:


> Joshua, what area do you live?
> 
> From what I can tell, the Sundowner Explorers were made in Bradenton.


Fernandina Beach just north of Jacksonville


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

devrep said:


> wow! You def made that your own, Nice work.


Thanks! I'm very happy with it.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

joshuabward said:


> Fernandina Beach just north of Jacksonville


I picked up one to rebuild. Almost finished with a custom trailer. Boat is completely gutted now. I'm considering widening the stern and transom a few inches on each side and maybe stretch it about 3" to make it a true 17ft. I'm going with lower decks than you have. Maybe 6-8" lower than the top of the gunnel rail.

Just wanted to know from another owner how you felt the ride was, once completed.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

@joshuabward killer job man, she looks sweet!


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## Sofloflyguy (Jul 9, 2020)

joshuabward said:


> Its been a long time coming, but I splashed the boat last night and again this morning. So here is a pic dump. I rigged the boat, the sea deck is cut by hand, its not perfect but its mine and I don't owe a dime!
> View attachment 30184
> View attachment 30184
> View attachment 30185
> ...


Curious did they fill the false floor with foam and if so why kind? I just purchased a 2001 model and I have run into the same issues so we are doing a rebuild aswell


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

So what happened to the grab bar and PP platform. Beautiful boat


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Sofloflyguy said:


> Curious did they fill the false floor with foam and if so why kind? I just purchased a 2001 model and I have run into the same issues so we are doing a rebuild aswell


Yes, under the false floor, it is filled with 2 part pour foam and will absorb water and probably has water in it now. I can tell you how to get the water out without cutting the floor out and seal it to keep that from happening again, if the floor feels fine. PM me for details..


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## Sofloflyguy (Jul 9, 2020)

Backwater said:


> Yes, under the false floor, it is filled with 2 part pour foam and will absorb water and probably has water in it now. I can tell you how to get the water out without cutting the floor out and seal it to keep that from happening again, if the floor feels fine. PM me for details..


Doing a full restoration on mine right now this thing is going to be a tank


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