# everglades...real interesting read



## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/everglades-florida-python-water-level


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Sea level rise? What rubbish.. the decline in the lower half of the ‘glades from Palm Beach southward is directly attributable to the building of our flood control system just after WWII when the ‘glades lost the yearly flood waters coming south from Lake Okeechobee... almost entirely, the “River of Grass” began to decline from that moment.

Places like Tarpon, Whitewater, Oyster Bays -and all the rivers that feed into the south are only getting 10% of the freshwater flow they were getting before flood control... south of the ‘glades, Florida Bay is suffering from the same problem...

The next time any news outfit wants to do a story about the ‘glades they’d be well advised to talk to Michael Grunwald (who authored THE SWAMP) or our own Adam Gelber, actually in charge of Everglades restoration...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I stopped reading at Fox News


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I stopped reading at Fox News


Fox News will be equal to CNN soon. Calling it now.


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

*Scientists work to reverse 'war on the ecosystem' in Everglades*


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

krash said:


> *Scientists work to reverse 'war on the ecosystem' in Everglades*


So Government vs Government?


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

lemaymiami said:


> Sea level rise? What rubbish.. the decline in the lower half of the ‘glades from Palm Beach southward is directly attributable to the building of our flood control system just after WWII when the ‘glades lost the yearly flood waters coming south from Lake Okeechobee... almost entirely, the “River of Grass” began to decline from that moment.
> 
> Places like Tarpon, Whitewater, Oyster Bays -and all the rivers that feed into the south are only getting 10% of the freshwater flow they were getting before flood control... south of the ‘glades, Florida Bay is suffering from the same problem...
> 
> The next time any news outfit wants to do a story about the ‘glades they’d be well advised to talk to Michael Grunwald (who authored THE SWAMP) or our own Adam Gelber, actually in charge of Everglades restoration...


There are a total of 5 sentences referring to climate change/sea level rise as part of the much bigger problem of the water deprivation from development over the years.Yet, you piss on it even when the article points out the incredible decline of water going to the everglades, maybe it deserves a second read. 

Have a nice day.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Even one sentence is too much when dealing with an internal water resource problem that’s been clearly identified- and long standing... and has absolutely nothing to do with the much hyped issue we all hear so much about. 
Or you could continue to believe what you choose to believe....

I particularly love to hear politicians
loudly declaim about “sea level rise” in places where development should never have happened in the first place... And, of course they’ll be asking all of us to fund whatever fixes the come up with. That goes for coastal roads upgrading, beach “re-nourishments”, and every other time and money (tons of money actually) wasting proposition that is needed to fix (if you can even say that word with a straight face...) problems that we collectively caused ourselves.

I’ll quit now before I start yelling and throwing things...


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I think its a pretty good article and nicely written. The more publicity the better in making awareness. There has always been and always will be politicians unfortunately. It doesn't have to be perfect to help spread the word. I remember when the Hudson river had nothing living in it, today its an excellent fishery. No the everglades will not be like it was in the 1800's but it is possible to improve fresh water delivery and more. It would have been nice if the corp and everyone else had not screwed things up- hopefully things can be improved. If all the different groups could solidify into one effort in terms of lobbying and message it seems a more powerful effort could reap stronger results. I understand the frustration and it too has a place.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

How do they know the roads aren’t sinking due to being built up on marsh land?


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Or built like Miami Beach on swampy ground barely above sea level... I first came here, just returned from Vietnam, in 1971. That fall, folks were wringing their hands about saltwater incursion onto the streets during king tides in some of the lower portions of the town... and it was going on long before that...

A few years later when I was working as a mate on charter boats just north of there (Haulover and the old Castaways docks) I met a young man from South America who said he’d come to our area to learn how to develop their country’s tourism efforts... I told him to take a good look and not to do what we’ve done.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Until we wipe ourselves out with our greed the Everglades will be what they are now and will not return to what they were. That is simply how it is. Humans damage ecosystems we don’t improve them.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

It is possible to reverse and improve much of what’s been done -but it will take tons of money and years to get much done. I’d like to see some small progress in the years I have left.

What’s needed is the public will to make a solid start- then get going.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Yes captain Lemay it is possible, I am not saying it isn’t. I am saying it won’t happen. There may be some small changes that take place but not the fundamental changes needed to restore the natural flow of water to Florida bay. The people won’t be moved, the farms not be left fallow the pavement won’t be torn up.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

topnative2 said:


> There are a total of 5 sentences referring to climate change/sea level rise as part of the much bigger problem of the water deprivation from development over the years.Yet, you piss on it even when the article points out the incredible decline of water going to the everglades, maybe it deserves a second read.
> 
> Have a nice day.


 The only problem with those sentences is that they blame more and more on something that can't and won't be fixed, while the glades water flows could be. It just draws away from the fix for a simple scapegoat. Still a good article.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

In case you missed it:

Scientists estimate that more than 650 billion gallons of fresh water a year once flowed south into what is now Everglades National Park. Today, that flow is about 280 billion gallons


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=25198


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

^^^ another report from a extension of government and a pay for play organization.

Preston is back, must be ramping up for election time.


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

DuckNut said:


> ^^^ another report from a extension of government and a pay for play organization.
> 
> Preston is back, must be ramping up for election time.


Sure, and let’s all listen to Ducknut and not the National Academy of Sciences when it comes to critical environmental issues.


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## Dpreston (Oct 16, 2015)

The *National Academy of Sciences* (NAS) is a private, non-profit society of distinguished scholars. Established by an Act of Congress, signed by President Abraham Lincoln in 1863, the NAS is charged with providing independent, objective advice to the nation on matters related to science and technology. Scientists are elected by their peers to *membership* in the NAS for outstanding contributions to research. The NAS is committed to furthering science in America, and its members are active contributors to the international scientific community. Approximately 500 current and deceased members of the NAS have won Nobel Prizes, and the *Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences*, founded in 1914, is today one of the premier international journals publishing the results of original research.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Well, it seems that they are now on the climate change bandwagon w/ the addition of sea level rise. The obvious answer is that we need even more water flowing south into the E. to counteract saltwater intrusion, works for me...................


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

"Several funding options are available to sponsors. These include contracts, grants, cooperative agreements, and purchase orders. A project may have one or several sponsors. Studies typically take from six to 18 months to complete, although some urgent studies may be completed in a shorter time and some broader or more complex studies take a longer time.

Federal sponsors interested in having the Academies conduct a study can obtain their services on a sole source basis because of their unique origins and status. The Academies do not compete for federal contracts. Grants, contracts, and gifts from states, foundations, individuals, and other sources also enable us to address critical issues on behalf of the nation."

Give them money and they will assure that your desired result is achieved.

But I didn't expect you to have an objective view of the agenda.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Salt water intrusion along our coasts (particularly on the Atlantic side...) is a very real problem - and freshwater well fields down here in south florida were failing when I first came here back in 1971... The problem hasn't gotten better over time...

Put simply, the only thing keeping saltwaters out of the ground here has always been the positive pressure of the existing freshwater in the ground... This is just one more consequence of what flood control did in the years since it was all put in place just after WWII... 

We needed the flood control or none of the development could have occurred. What we didn't need were the unforeseen consequences of diverting all that water out in to the ocean from Lake Okeechobee south (all the way down to Florida Bay. Fixing that problem (to the extent it's even possible) will be difficult, very expensive, and take years to accomplish...

There is one bright spot for all of us that see the dangers and are speaking up about getting started on the fixes... That is that this problem directly effects the freshwater supplies for all the coastal areas. Once we can get that message across I believe lots of ordinary folks who pay little attention to the health of the Everglades will get on board and demand that we do something about this terrible waste of our much needed freshwater....


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## nolaguides (Nov 28, 2019)

Until I-75 and US 41 are elevated and the dikes removed to allow the flow nothing will be restored. The two elevated portions of 41 near are a start, but the water on the other side needs to flow.


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## Big Bone (May 16, 2020)

https://evergladesrestoration.gov/wghandouts/

Watch for the agenda to be posted in the next two weeks.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

When I was a kid, my father was a civil engineer and owned Florida Pipe, they sold aluminum pipe in south Florida used to drain the wetlands. I will never forget him telling me that one day water will be like gold in Florida and battles will occur over it...he was right.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

topnative2 said:


> In case you missed it:
> 
> Scientists estimate that more than 650 billion gallons of fresh water a year once flowed south into what is now Everglades National Park. Today, that flow is about 280 billion gallons


Seems like it wouldn't be impossible to make a good dent in that.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

HONOR DIES WHERE SELF INTEREST LIES. 

As long as there is big sugar and crooked politicians, there is very little chance the everglades will ever be fixed. Big money talks and everythjng else be damned. Sad but true. Nothing going to get fixed...


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

This is the first year I didn't fish in Fl. The IRL system is dead. Fished out of Choko last year and it was great. Want to go back to Flamingo since the grass has returned and maybe I will this fall or winter. It's hard to believe that politicians would allow Big Sugar to ruin the #1 revenue producer in the state- tourism, much of which is made up of fishermen, but they have.


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