# Mitzi vs. Saltmarsh



## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

I am looking at the Mitzi 17 tournament and the yet to be offered Saltmarsh Heron 18'. I want to fish 3 people occasionally, usually 1 or 2. I fish Texas so sometimes have really skinny water. The biggest difference I can see is the Heron does not have a tunnel but the Mitzi does. I will be poling most of the time over the flats. Is it worth buying a used HB or similiar to get in my price range or build a new skiff just how I want it? Will the Heron draft too much? I can not get a wet test that far south in either boat.


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## Cam (Apr 5, 2017)

I would be looking at an older used HB or a newer used Beavertail. Nothing wrong with the skiffs you listed but you will simply get more value for your money going used. Less tax and resale will also be better as most new boats lose value quickly. Motors are so dependable these days going used has few drawbacks in that area. That is my opinion after having gone through used and new boats.

If you could find a BT Mosquito semi-new or a used Strike I think you would have a great boat for less money and you could be fishing it in days.


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## Dawhoo (Oct 27, 2015)

I absolutely love my Mitzi fishes 3 people easily, but in my case often just myself and performs great with me solo fishing from the platform. Mine is a 2007 17' with a 70 yammy with many years of hard fishing and has held up greatly, you would not be disappointed. 

...but, I would probably prefer a Beavertail strike if can find one in your price range as they are just a different level of workmanship as mentioned above... but I would not go out of my budget just to get one as I mentioned above I am more than happy with my simple Mitzi


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## hunterbrown (Feb 17, 2014)

You should look at the older mavericks. You could find a nice hpx-t for under 15 or an older mirage for around 10. Draft on a hpx-t is around 6" and the mirages were 9-10"+ 
Much nicer finish than the Mitzi and they hold their value.


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## Flat Mad (Feb 12, 2017)

If you are looking for property and prestige go with HB or Beavertail both are great boats . I have owned maverick,hewes and scout. I had a 16 mitzi for 8 years I now have a 17 mitzi .The 17 takes the chop a lot better than the 16. It's deadly quiet on the flats. It floats and runs very skinny with a Jack plate. Out of all the skiffs I HAVE had fishing from my 17 mitzi is a joy .


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Don't sleep on that Heron 18. Someone mentioned value?? You will be able to get a nicely appointed Heron 18 for at least the 1/3-1/4 the price of a comparable skiff in it's class...and that's new. In terms of draft, it will depend on your load. I don't want to speculate until there is a finished product out there, but you'll be looking between 7-9"....give or take.


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## Cam (Apr 5, 2017)

Shadowcast said:


> Don't sleep on that Heron 18. Someone mentioned value?? You will be able to get a nicely appointed Heron 18 for at least the 1/3-1/4 the price of a comparable skiff in it's class...and that's new.


That is an ambitious evaluation. Drop 20k on a hull (excluding the add ons) and expect it be worth 60k to 80k? I am sure they make really nice skiffs but it is unlikely someone is going to pay even HB money for a Heron even if it is comparable in terms of fit, finish and materials and I don't think it is nor are they trying to compete at that price point. 

Disclaimer, I haven't actually seen the Heron 18 or know its cost so this is my loosely based opinion from the 16.


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

Cam said:


> That is an ambitious evaluation. Drop 20k on a hull (excluding the add ons) and expect it be worth 60k to 80k? I am sure they make really nice skiffs but it is unlikely someone is going to pay even HB money for a Heron even if it is comparable in terms of fit, finish and materials and I don't think it is nor are they trying to compete at that price point.
> 
> Disclaimer, I haven't actually seen the Heron 18 or know its cost so this is my loosely based opinion from the 16.


Where did he claim it would increase in value to 60-80k? Buying a new heron or mitzi would include a hull warranty (in ankona's case that is 10 years) and a motor warranty (typically 5-7 years).

So in one case you have 6 years no worries and the other you get a 20 year old boat with a motor that is out of warranty and 500 hours. I am not knocking HB, BT etc but def. something to consider when looking at new/used. I would build the new skiff..

Currently new boats are not losing value. Most are actually increasing. I had a buddy that bought a pioneer 5 years ago and sold it for exactly what he was in it for. Same goes with the mosquito that was sold on here recently to compare to BT. This goes for ankona and many of the other manufacturers as well.

Boat Industry is also feast or famine. During good economic times no worries but when things turn the other way that is when the value is really lost. We are currently in our second longest bull market..


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Anyone who is buying a used Ankona for the price of a new Ankona should get their head checked.


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

I woukd rather buy new because of those reasons and personal OCD ones. I would buy either one bare hull and do the rigging here in Texas. I lean towards the Mitzi only because of the tunnel. I had a SM 1656 and loved it. I guess I need to find a Heron close to where I fish and see if the draft is low enough without a tunnel. Does anyone have real world draft numbers for it loaded down? Paint it Black says 6-7 inches on his Heron but he travels light.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Just curious, but why Heron 18? I fish three adults in my 16 all the time. 
Again, I have the carbon hull, tournament edition, so it's built different than the lodge edition. It will float shallower, as to the weight displacement. They rearranged the fuel tank placement, the weight is shifted from the seating area pushed forward. 

If you want to try out the 16 first hand, catch a flight to Miami, we'll be on the water in 20 minutes, casting at tailing bonefish. 





  








Estrada Art - Salt Marsh Heron




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paint it black


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Mar 23, 2017


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

Im tempted to do just that, but cant swing it right now. Maybe one day. The reason I was looking at the 18 is the skiff has to pull double duty for the family. Wife, three kids, dog. I can get by with 16, Im not sure we all coukd.


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## Cam (Apr 5, 2017)

jlindsley said:


> Where did he claim it would increase in value to 60-80k? Buying a new heron or mitzi would include a hull warranty (in ankona's case that is 10 years) and a motor warranty (typically 5-7 years).


You said and I quoted "You will be able to get a nicely appointed Heron 18 for at least the 1/3-1/4 the price of a comparable skiff in it's class". That implies a 25k-ish hull from Salt Marsh is comparable to the best hulls in the market using some pretty exotic materials with far more hours in design and finish work.

He can pick up a couple year old BT with plenty of warranty left. Besides what he pays in the warranty and extra taxes he loses in the resale. A 20 year old HB that passes a good survey isn't going to suddenly delaminate. Has one ever delaminated? A 20 year old HB won't lose much value in 5 years and has a bigger market of buyers. A 5 year old Heron, who knows... the company itself might not even be around to backup its warranty. Small boat builders are one medical emergency away, one big boat company offer away, etc from not being the company they were a minute ago.

I am not trying to throw shade on Heron boats. I am sure they are great boats at their price point and deserving of their stellar reputation. However they are not trying to directly compete with top tier boat builders nor are they trying to with their current offerings. A mid priced boat aimed at excellent value is a good thing and it doesn't have to be more than that.

Lastly there is virtually no skiff that is worth more after 2-3 years than it is new with a couple oddball exceptions. Some boats with massive wait times can sell for a bit more for those willing to jump the line but they are still new boats at that point. Those willing to pay a premium like that simply buy a new boat.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Who originally made the Salt Marsh molds?


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

I am pretty sure they were made in house. I know the Native SUV is an old Fiber Craft that was modified.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Cam said:


> You said and I quoted "You will be able to get a nicely appointed Heron 18 for at least the 1/3-1/4 the price of a comparable skiff in it's class". That implies a 25k-ish hull from Salt Marsh is comparable to the best hulls in the market using some pretty exotic materials with far more hours in design and finish work.
> 
> He can pick up a couple year old BT with plenty of warranty left. Besides what he pays in the warranty and extra taxes he loses in the resale. A 20 year old HB that passes a good survey isn't going to suddenly delaminate. Has one ever delaminated?
> the company itself might not even be around to backup its warranty. Small boat builders are one medical emergency away, one big boat company offer away, etc from not being the company they were a minute ago.
> ...


You're quick to recommend BT's yet I know several (three to be exact) people who had brand new ones with stringers delaminating. 

Ankona is doing more than fine selling 130-150+ skiffs a year, and they've been in business for about a decade. They aren't going anywhere. 

Building skiffs using tried and trued methods of boat building. 

At what point do you consider a skiff builder no longer a "small boat builder"? 
They are larger and sell more skiffs than most other builders. Boat pricing doesn't signify the size of one's operation. 



jmrodandgun said:


> Who originally made the Salt Marsh molds?


Do you mean molds or plugs?

The Heron molds were built in house. I was there the first day Mel started talking about designing that hull, and watched him throw down tape lines on an old hull to see where he wanted to start cutting and reshaping it drastically essentially becoming a completely different skiff. That became the plug, which they physically wet tested over and over to determine any adjustments to achieve the best performance.

They actually take their skiffs to the water and test real world performance, rather than typing in numbers into a computer to come up with a simulation of what a skiff will do, then send it to CNC a plug out of foam, then off to market it goes without ever testing the actual skiff in the real world. 



jlindsley said:


> I am pretty sure they were made in house. I know the Native SUV is an old Fiber Craft that was modified.


Just to go further with this, the original Ankona Native 14 was an old Fiber Craft mold. Mel extended it to 17 feet, redesigned the running surface, added poling strakes, made it flat bottom, gave it a harder chine, and cut down some of the freeboard to make it a much more efficiently running and poling skiff. Sort of brought the old look to new standards in performance. While the overall look might still be similar, it's far from what the Fiber Craft hull was. 

The Shadowcast is a chopped down Cayenne. They narrowed a Cayenne, and cut off some of the freeboard.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

paint it black said:


> You're quick to recommend BT's yet I know several (three to be exact) people who had brand new ones with stringers delaminating.


Careful. Same can be said of Ankona. Mine was an abomination and the three other skiffs I was personally familiar with all had major issues. Two of the three had serious transom cracking issues but all three had very serious deck/cap fitment issues.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Cam said:


> That is an ambitious evaluation. Drop 20k on a hull (excluding the add ons) and expect it be worth 60k to 80k? I am sure they make really nice skiffs but it is unlikely someone is going to pay even HB money for a Heron even if it is comparable in terms of fit, finish and materials and I don't think it is nor are they trying to compete at that price point.
> 
> Disclaimer, I haven't actually seen the Heron 18 or know its cost so this is my loosely based opinion from the 16.


I think you may have misunderstood what I posted or I may have screwed up the context. I never said the Heron 18 would be worth $60-80K. What I was saying, obviously I didn't do it well, is that you are going to have a skiff in the Heron 18 that will be considerably less than other 18' skiffs offered by other companies in the class. I don't want to speculate, but I think you would have to try really hard to spend $40K+ on a Heron 18 when all is said and done. I hope that clears up any confusion.


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

And
Here we go


jmrodandgun said:


> Careful. Same can be said of Ankona. Mine was an abomination and the three other skiffs I was personally familiar with all had major issues. Two of the three had serious transom cracking issues but all three had very serious deck/cap fitment issues.


!


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> Careful. Same can be said of Ankona. Mine was an abomination and the three other skiffs I was personally familiar with all had major issues. Two of the three had serious transom cracking issues but all three had very serious deck/cap fitment issues.


Out of curiosity did you purchase yours new? Ankona built some basic barebone hulls back during the recession that some ppl rigged or overpowered that had issues. Not saying they are perfect or this was your case but two sides to many stories. I can't imagine them not backing up their warranty based on their customer service.

On another note, I think the title Mitzi VS. Salt Marsh got people fired up before even reading  #derailedthread


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

To the original poster @Wetwork....in my opinion and only my opinion, to compare the Mitzi 17 and the Heron 18 right now is a little premature considering the Heron 18 is not a finished product yet. However, here's my opinion, when the 18 is done, to compare it to the Mitzi 17 would be like comparing apples and oranges.


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

How do you mean by the comparison?


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Wetwork said:


> How do you mean by the comparison?


If you are looking at those 2 skiffs, those are 2 very different skiffs in terms of size, finish, and performance. One is not better than the other, just different.


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

Thanks. I am new to skiffs, coming from a shallow sport.


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## cdan03 (Apr 12, 2013)

I owned a FX17 by Sundance which is pretty much a Mitzi 17 and believe with your family needs the heron 18 will be better suited. The fx17 can be a little tippy, not the driest ride and I don’t think it would be comfortable with a wife three kids and a dog. Fishing with 3 ppl on mine was manageable but I didn’t enjoy fishing per say more the company. Hope that helps. 

To add Im putting In a deposit today on the heron 16 for similar needs. To seve double duty with our dogs and sandbar trips. The stability of the heron 16 and room and storage was far superior to my FX17. 

Now no skiff is going to be perfect for double duty but finding the best one that can perform most the things you want is more achievable


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

very good info CDAN03, thank you.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

How shallow is the water your going to be running?


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

The lower laguna madre is about 6” on some of the big flats, in Galveston and Rockport, 6-12”. I use the intercoastal and never cross big water.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Wetwork said:


> The lower laguna madre is about 6” on some of the big flats, in Galveston and Rockport, 6-12”. I use the intercoastal and never cross big water.


I would look at something with a tunnel for sure then not sure if that Heron 18 will run in 6 inches of water.


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

Thats my concern, maybe I can go 16’ or find a used Maverick tunnel, thanks.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Wetwork said:


> Thats my concern, maybe I can go 16’ or find a used Maverick tunnel, thanks.


You should talk to smackdaddy he has a Maverick tunnel and is somewhere in Texas I am a Southwest Florida boy our flats get shallow but we can usually access deeper water without having to pole to far to reach a channel of some kind.


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## Wetwork (Nov 22, 2017)

Perfect, thanks again.


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