# "New to me" Fin and Feather ....



## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Add me to the list of Fin and Feather owners .....  

So yeah, I finally got a boat -- 1996 Fin and Feather.  Story on it is that the previous owner bought it from original owner and ran it up until 2 years ago.  Motor issues.  He kept thinking he would fix it up, repair it, etc, but due to job loss and lack of money, he finally decided to let it go.   I waited 8 weeks for him to make up his mind!  Even at the last minute, he almost didn't let go ........ but I think he finally realized it was the right thing for him to do.

So, I bought the boat and trailer.  No engine.  The old engine (Suzuki 25hp) was taken to a mechanic who said it had major electrical issue with the ECI box -- a $750 replacement item.  That, and the fact the motor hadn't been run in over 2 years had me buy the boat without the engine.

There is a add-on Tilt&Trim unit that is not working (needs new relay box).  Boat came with seats that are almost throw-aways except for the posts, a nice pushpole, and a boat cover.  The previous owner had re-done the bearings and put on new tires on the trailer.  Trailer lights work (well, one has a ground that has come loose, but easy fix).   Boat towed home nice (no swaying).

Here is a pic of boat now at new home.  Trailer did not have a tongue-jack so I added that .....



Boat had been left outside, under an oak tree for a long, long time.   Spent 1 hour cleaning out acorns, leaves etc.  After getting out all of that, I was left with this to clean ....






After several hours of cleaning, she looks a lot better .....








Next up:  start work on the outside of the boat  .....




I do have a question about engine choice.  Previous owner had a 20" shaft motor on back; he felt it was too long and put motor too deep.  Boat mechanic thought it should be fine.  Was wondering what others are using (short shaft or long) and if the Tilt and Trim unit I have on it might make a short shaft a better choice.

Further planned additons ... trolling motor, depth/fish finder, possibly some horizontal rod tubes for flyrods.


AP


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

scweeeet rig congrats for you !!
-anytide


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Another casualty of the "next" syndrome.  

Hook up a battery, trim the tilt plate parallel to the transom
then lay a straight edge along the keel,
extending back and measure straight up/square to the top of the plate.
That distance will tell you the engine shaft length to get.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

If I can recall, my 96 had a short 15" shaft suzuki 25 hp. Worked out good for me. Man, seeing these pics sure do bring back memories... Keep us posted with pics of the build and good luck..


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Congrats on your purchase. That should be one heck of a microskiff. 

If the transom mounting height is 17" or less I would go with a short shaft motor.


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## rw29914 (Jan 14, 2011)

Congrats on the F&F - I'm sure that you will enjoy her. I parted with my 99' F&F about 4 months ago after ordering her new in 99' just before the company went out of business.
You will need to go with a 15" shaft - 25hp is the best set up on this skiff...You don't have to worry about trim tabs. The skiff runs awesome w/out them. If you have any questions about the skiff, just send me a PM. Good luck with her, you don't see many of these around any more.


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## bw510 (Sep 1, 2011)

awesome! i bought the other one that was listed.unfortunately the deck on mine is cracked,that one looks in much better condition.
if you don't mind me asking what did you get it for?


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

Congrats AP!


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

congrats on your new rig your going to love it. i run a 25 hp merc 2 stroke w/ 15" shaft and runs great


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Guys, thanks for the complements! 

I'll post up new pics as things get done. Right now working on cleaning up the outside of the boat -- lots of old faded PoliGlo that has to be wet-sanded off before I re-apply new stuff.

Have a deal on a trolling motor, and should start shopping for a new/used 25hp motor right after the first of the year. Still have to get a battery, and have to fix the tilt&trim unit (relay box).

More after that (electronics, etc.) but first things first!

AP


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## DavidIvey (Nov 26, 2011)

Wow! I'm jealous! Sweet ride!


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## Paul_Barnard (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow, she cleaned right up. That appears to be a very well built boat. In that one photo you can see they used a good quality woven fiberglass cloth.


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Spent some time during the Holidays working on the exterior of the boat ....

Here's what I started with -- faded gel-coat along with old PoliGlow product that has been exposed to lots of sun and has faded white ......



Tried the PoliGlow remover product - did not do much of anything except leave a film.  Had to break out the wet sander and go to work.

Many hours later, it looked dull and uniform all over -- here are two shots, one of the aft end and one overall ....





Next up, applying the PoliGlow product.  It went on easy, multiple coats applied -- only takes 1-3 minutes between coats.  Now sides look like this:





Not sure the before/after pics do it complete justice, but I can tell you things look MUCH better.  There are lots of small nicks and scratches; I'll live with that for now ......

Next:  trailer wires need replacement; new trolling motor should be here around New Years, the tilt and trim needs fixing (relays and electronics, hopefully easy to fix) and I'm actively looking for a 25hp short-shaft remote motor.


AP


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## rw29914 (Jan 14, 2011)

Looks great! Good luck on your outboard search and the rest of your project. You should be on the water soon enjoying her. You will be pleased with the skiff and how it performs. Post some more pics after you have her rigged up.


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## EER (Jul 16, 2011)

Nice work, looks a lot better Whats the beam?


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

I was doing some research on the add-on tilt&trim unit that is on the back of the Fin and Feather.  I was told it was made by Minn Kota.  That's all I knew .....

Nothing on the Minn Kota web site .....

Doing some internet digging, I found that Minn Kota did make something called a Power Up.   I found a post somewhere of someone who said that they had one of these Power Up units and it was remarkably similar to a unit made by Pather Industries.

Bingo!!!

Looked up Panther Marine, found MarineTech, the company, and that it has this line of products from Panther and boom -- found the unit that's hanging off the back of my boat right now:

http://www.marinetechproducts.com/pages/TrimTiltModel55

I'm guessing that Minn Kota simply re-branded these units when they carried them a while back .......  anyone ever seen/used this unit before??

Good news is that I can get the parts I need to at least see if the unit is functioning properly.

http://www.marinetechproducts.com/pages/PartsShop/#ecwid:category=237158&mode=category&offset=0&sort=normal

I need the relay control and the push button switch -- about $80.  Hopefully won't need the actuator ($290).   Still, if I can get this all to work, it's a lot less than a new CNC T&T unit (over $500).

Of course, will need a battery to test all of this out with ..... looking at Odessey batteries, trying to figure out which one is best choice to run everything -- start boat, trolling motor, lights, etc. ... (anyone with any thoughts?)


AP


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Worked some on the F&F over the new year holidays .....

1)  Got all new trailer wiring installed, along with new tail lights.  Everything now working properly.

2)  Moved gas tank from back of boat to forward hatch area (see pic).  Still need to run the gas lines to it ....



Plenty of room still for anchors, rope, etc.



Hopefully this will balance out the boat a bit, as I'm placing a Group 27 battery in the back (think there was a group 24 or smaller in there before).

3)  New (used) trolling motor picked up -- Great White 43lb. with quick release mounts.  See the mounts in what I think will be their location (along with the troller) ....



The trolling motor has a kinda weird electrical hookup -- not sure what I'm going to do about it just yet as boat has a typical pre-installed battery connector at the bow.  No idea if connector and wiring are still in working order ..... something else to potentially replace.  Troller connector looks like this .....



4) Picked up a Group 27 battery and charger -- I was thinking of getting an Optima/Odessey, but too expensive right now, maybe next time.  Charging up battery now, will start testing out some of the electrics next weekend (tilt actuator, bow/stern lights, bilge and bait pumps, etc ...)

5)  Began prep work on planned re-painting of Tilt&Trim unit.  Got a wire brush and hit the areas I could get to with T&T still mounted on boat.  Plan to un-mount, get the rest of the areas cleaned up, stray with Rustolium (spray can) self-etching primer and then Rustolium (spray can) automotive paint.  I got the automotive stuff because it said it was not bothered by water, gas or oil.  Just trying to get it to look a bit better, not trying to be perfect with it.

So here is what it looked like, before and after .....

before ...



after ....



before .....



after ....



you get the idea .........

Will order relay control box and up/down switch and cable this week, hopefully actuator is good ....

Will also start seriously shopping for engine (25hp electric remote short shaft) .....

That's all for now.

AP


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

I've been continuing work on the boat in fits and starts ....

Decided to fix the tilt and trim unit -- it needed a new actuator.  Ordered part.  While it was coming in, I took apart the T&T unit and removed it from the boat.  Finished cleaning it off with the wire brush.  Re-painted it with (Krylon spray) etching primer and then automotive black (automotive paint is supposed to be less bothered by gas, oil, etc.).  When actuator arrived, re-assembled and re-attached to boat.  Attached to battery and ........ it works!!!   Yea!!!!!

Looks like this ....






Now, the big question:  What length motor to get.

Per Brett in an earlier comment:
_Hook up a battery, trim the tilt plate parallel to the transom
then lay a straight edge along the keel,
extending back and measure straight up/square to the top of the plate.
That distance will tell you the engine shaft length to get. _

I did as he said .... I measured that distance -- 17" from top of T&T plate to bottom of boat.  Also measured the set-back from the transom -- 7".

Given those numbers ..... would a short-shaft motor still work?


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## PLANKTON7 (Jun 14, 2011)

Any short shaft motor(15inch).


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

What he said...

Especially since many 15 inch shaft outboards actually measure more than 15 inches.


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## DavidIvey (Nov 26, 2011)

The connector is a Anderson Connector.


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## mhinkle90 (Feb 24, 2011)

first off sweet skiff, i love the fin and feathers!

second i saw you placed the gas tank to the front hatch. i may be wrong but i believe you might have some trouble if ever stopped on the water because it needs to be a vented air space for the tank. hopefully another forum member can confirm this. just looking out for you before you go through the trouble of running gas lines.

-Snag


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

I owned a F&F a few years ago and like yours my tank was under the rear deck. I was stopped by the man one day and clarified that it was ok confined as long as it was portable. I'm sure others probably have heard different but being under the front or rear hatch should basically be the same. Personally, I have never had much luck with a front mounted tank. Also, on mine if too much weight were in the front the boat would tend to barge through the water making for a very wet ride. I ended up leaving the tank under the rear deck and mounted my battery under the console. It was the best setup I could come up with but you may find another setup that suits your needs. Looks good just slap a short shaft 25 on her and enjoy.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

AP, looking good there bro but I advise that you work faster! It's almost MAJICK time if you know what I mean! lol

Afterhours, what issues have you had with the front mounted? Fuel line too long and not getting good flow?


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## mhinkle90 (Feb 24, 2011)

I tried doing some research for you to find out the exact law but not having too much look. Although i came across this thread with a guy dealing with the same issue: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?50329-Rascal-Runabout-Fuel-tank-Ventilation-Question
Plus i don't think you would want fumes building up inside your compartment in the front especially with no proper ventilation. just my .02 and helping you avoid the ticket or hassle.


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## mhinkle90 (Feb 24, 2011)

also look up this law: 183.605

it refers to "open to the atmosphere" and some compartment requirements.


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

> I owned a F&F a few years ago and like yours my tank was under the rear deck. I was stopped by the man one day and clarified that it was ok confined as long as it was portable. I'm sure others probably have heard different but being under the front or rear hatch should basically be the same. Personally, I have never had much luck with a front mounted tank. Also, on mine if too much weight were in the front the boat would tend to barge through the water making for a very wet ride. I ended up leaving the tank under the rear deck and mounted my battery under the console. It was the best setup I could come up with but you may find another setup that suits your needs. Looks good just slap a short shaft 25 on her and enjoy.


AfterHrs2:  Thanks .... question to you on why or what issues you encountered with gas tank up front.  Was it just the ride issue you mentioned, or something else?

My concern was weight .... I replaced a smaller battery with a larger/heavier one in back.  Also I will mostly use by myself, so thought the added weight up front would help even things out.  Finally, I didn't like having the battery and gas tank in the same compartment.  But hell, this is me just guessin' on a lot of things, etc ....

On the gas tank venting issue, I have a hole already there from where a previous foot-control switch was located.  I'll see about leaving it "breathable" -- better than nothing.

AP


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

I had issues getting proper fuel to the engine due to the length of the fuel line. Luckily, I only mocked up the whole setup and just lost a few $ in extra fuel line and didn't permanently mount the tank and line. I have heard others having success in doing so but after some thought, it really wasn't beneficial for me so I left it alone. Also, since I mainly fish artificial bait, I removed the screws from the live well and took it completely out. This seemed to have made a big difference in freeing up space. Plus, the bait pump was located directly behind and I was constantly having problems with proper flow and circulation. I normally fish solo also and this was the best setup I could come up with... Good luck...


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Yeah!!!   Got a motor for the boat!!

1997 Johnson 25hp short-shaft, remote with control box, electric start.  New 10x15 prop.  Had the guy do a compression check while I was there; 120 in both cyl. Pees great. Controls work. Very little rust anywhere; inside looks good.

Got a camera-pic but can't seem to get it posted; forgot my regular camera but I'll see about getting something posted shortly.


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

a pic of the motor .....


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Slowly getting work done, not near as fast as I'd like .....

Made a transom block from 2 pieces of oak; painted it and placed it on T&T unit plate to give motor something more to bite into; much more secure now.  Pic before painting (while glue is setting up)



Pulled the old stereo system from the boat; now have large holes to fill where speakers and stereo were located (had to enlarge hole to get stereo out).  Will cover with some nice pieces of wood trim.





Decided to re-wire boat from stem to stern -- old (15+ years) wire, corrosion, etc.  So gutted the boat's wiring and threw out the old switch panel.  Purchased a new one (pic later), purchased 18ga. wire needed for runs.  Got new LED shark bow lights and and new LED stern light.  Purchased new depthfinder.  Cables to trolling motor (4 ga. to battery!) in front have connectors in place; I'm heat-shrinking and wrapping right now to cut down on corrosion issues.  Purchased a terminal post to be mounted in bow for trolling motor wires. 

Tested bilge pump -- works, so I'll keep in place.  Have a pump for a livewell; works, but since I'm not using the livewell I'll either remove or at least put a seacock shut-off valve there to make sure it doesn't let in water.  Same with the livewell drain -- it works, but I might put in a valve there too.

Purchased buss bars for electrical runs.  Mounted these bars along with zip-ties on small pieces of pvc trim.  Glued these in location inside stern of boat.  I'll run cables through the zip ties which should elevate the cables out of any casual water in the bilge, secure the wires and open up space inside the stern compartment area.





Used same pvc trim to make a gas box tray in the bow area; will secure straps there to keep tank from shifting while under way.  Will probably use the same pvc for a battery box tray.  



Still have to secure battery in place and run wire to everything, but before I do that I'll be taking boat to a shop to install the remote and motor wiring along with T&T and steering mechanisms.  That should happen this coming weekend.


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

here's the latest ....

Sent my boat off to Scott at AllStar Marine here in Orlando.  Good guys, really did a great job of doing things I was not comfortable doing myself.  Glad I had them do this as they ran into a few issues it would have been difficult or time-consuming for me to resolve ... 

Asked them to properly mount engine (bolt to T&T plate).  Build fuel line to run from bow-located gas tank.  Connect T&T and remote control box to side of console and then connect all remote controls, steering and fuel line to motor.

They ran into a few problems with the steering -- the steering "tube" on the (used) Johnson was completely corroded shut.  They had to drill and then ream the whole so they could connect the steering.  Was missing a few parts from the remote controls; also my cables were too short -- they ordered new ones.  Bolted engine up, checked over engine, found internal primer (plastic piece) with a crack so they replaced.  Did an lower unit service.  Checked engine, good compression, runs fine they said.    Ran all cables, making everything nice and tidy.  Built fuel line cable and installed a water-fuel separator.  Oh, also installed a tach.

First-rate job, very happy with their work.  Recommended.

Pics now .... first the used console control box mounted on side of console:



You can see how they added the external T&T controls to the throttle handle:

 

Fuel bulb located at back of boat for easy access (not next to tank in front of boat):



Water-fuel separator located high up, marked with date of install:



They used my tiewrap-blocks to route cables, hoses, etc -- made of a nice, clean interior -- not the best picture but you get the idea:



So, now all that's left is installation of trolling motor, finish wiring of console switch, install of depthfinder, and patch up any holes in console and throughout boat .........

AP


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

More work done (still a ways to go) .....

Installed a terminal post up in the bow compartment.  Ran the trolling motor cables from the back of the boat (where battery is) to the post and secured it along with the cable that will feed up to the trolling motor itself.   Secured cables to side of boat.  Two shots of this ...






Next, I secured some really nice 4mm plywood scraps from Oysterbreath (thanks pard'ner!) and cut out the plates that will cover the speaker holes and the switch panel/stereo hole.  Gave them two coats of epoxy on both sides and paid special attention to the end-grain.  

Once dry, I installed some courtesy LED lighting (from http://www.oznium.com/marine-led-lighting ) and created a "cover" for the LEDs out of door weatherstrip.  After gluing the weatherstrip and LEDs together and gluing the package to the plate, I flipped the plate over and installed window weatherstripping on the back side of the plate -- this to hopefully keep water out.   Installed the plates ... they look good!!

So here is the before pic showing one of the speaker holes (there's another hole on the other side of the boat) ....



Here's a pic of the weatherstripping on the back side of the plate ....



And here are two pics of the finished product -- plates in place with LED lighting ....






Not bad if I do say so myself!!    

Still have to cut out the template for the switch panel in the front plate and get it ready.  Lots of wiring left to complete (bilge pump, bait pump, etc.) although I did get the bow and stern lighting run and connected.

More to come!!  .......


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Looking good. Wouldn't expect anything but good things out of Scott and Allstar marine. They are very professional and have tons of knowledge when it comes to boats. Hope to see you on the water sometime soon...


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Finished wiring of bait pump and bilge pump.  Ran wiring cables for the switch panel back to the buss bars.  Buss bars starting to fill up -- in the picture you see the negative buss bar with the cable tie blocks (and some positive cables in the pic that I need to secure properly) ....



All that's left for wiring-running is the depthfinder.  Then I can finish off the switch panel and install it into the plate and the console.

Other news was the installation of the trolling motor.  This trolling motor has plates that allow the trolling motor to be removable.  Not your standard TM plate, but these round disc-things (like this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=springfield+marine+trolling+motor&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=655&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=15131670934448505956&sa=X&ei=F615T6qBBsqd2QXowrm2Bg&ved=0CFAQ8wIwAA )
  
Man, I was nervous about getting the measurements correct (this was bought used so no template; had to use the Mark-One eyeball) and even more nervous about how to secure the round plates to the hull.  Most of my holes I would not be able to get to to secure with nuts.  Some good tips here in Microskiff about using toggle bolts.  Did this and it worked out great!!   

Now trolling motor is secured and looks like this:



Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and no, it's not a train heading straight at me ....... 

AP


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> Next, I secured some really nice 4mm plywood scraps from Oysterbreath (thanks pard'ner!) and cut out the plates that will cover the speaker holes and the switch panel/stereo hole.


yER' welcome! There is plenty more!

I like the trolling motor layout. I've always been concerned about bus bars though. They always look so precarious just out in the some-what open. Final pic looks real good! Next time mudfoot sees you out on the water their will be NO mistaking! lol


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Thought about that .....

I thought about covering them up with a Tupperware container (cut out lid to fit over buss bar, glue to wall, and then snap Tupperware on).

..... for now  have to keep them wet with some anti-rust stuff, guess we'll see how it works out.

AP


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

This weekend I got a couple of things knocked out ....

First, I installed the depthfinder and transducer, and ran the cables to the transducer and to the battery.  I enlarged an existing hole in the side of the console to run the cable (transducer connector is wider than cable, that's why hole is so large) and ran cable.  I'll need to fill in the hole later.  

Here is a pic ...



I then secured the actual fishfinder to the top of the console.  Was only able to cover one large hole, so you can still see two older holes where old fishfinder must have been mounted (these are filled in now).



Next, I began work on the switch plate, cutting out the template for the switch.  I also installed the courtesy LED lights at the same time.  So now front plate looks like this:



And I temporarily put it in place where it will eventually sit ...




So all that's left is to start connecting all the positive wires to the switch and then mount the switch/plate to the console.

Getting really close now!!


AP


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

Dang!   Seriously behind on the posts here .......

So, when last we left things I was mounting the console switch panel and side-panels with the LED lights.   Biggest question was -- would everything work?   Happy to report that ALL wiring worked fine.  I have functioning (on panel):

1)  Bilge pump
2)  Bait pump
3)  Instrument lights
4)  Courtesy LEDs
5)  Bow LED lights
6)  Stern LED light

Also functioning is the trolling motor -- I got the special adapter plug connected to my cabling, so now all wiring work is done!!   

A couple of pics .....

Console switch panel, with courtesy LEDs lit up ....



Side panel with LEDs lit ....




Last step was to protect the wiring running from the back of the boat into the console.  Before I started, it looked something like this:







I ended up "wrapping" the wires with something I got from the Home Depot tub-and-tile center -- its a rubberized (waterproof) backing material used for lining a bath tub area to keep water out.  What I wanted was some protection against chafing, etc as well as keeping water from constantly washing over the cables.   So the cables are wrapped in this material, and then I fastened down one side of this material to help keep things nice and tight. 

This is not perfect, but it will do for now.  Looks like this:








So all that's left is actual wet-testing the boat -- hope to do that this coming weekend.  Then should actually be able to report back on how the boat performs.


AP


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Theres a better way to cover up those wires!
Get a piece of , oh, say 3in pvc pipe, cut it in half down the center, wax it at least 3 times with some mold release wax, set it on a piece of wax paper, and pop a mold off of it with a lip on it so you can silicone it to the floor.


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