# mitzi 16 or copperhead



## davefishing (Dec 16, 2011)

If you had to choose between a mitzi 16 and a copperhead, both with a 50hp what boat would you go with and why. Is one more stable, which rides smoother, does one have more bow rise then another.


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Owned the 16 with a 50 2 stroke. Also fished on the copperhead. 
Fit and finish on gen 2 copperhead is much nicer than mitzi. Mitzi 16 drafts less and is easier to pole.

If I was primairly poling I would take the mitzi, easier to pole but not as stable. If I was doing a combo of poling and tm and needed more versatility and stability then the copperhead.


----------



## blondmonkey777 (Oct 18, 2012)

Went on a cop a few weeks back and it went skinny as you need to go and was stable but honestly doesn't have very good big water capability very low bow and sides. It makes it very good for poling but also very easy to stuff the bow. I also have poled a mitz 17 around with a 60 and it drafts every bit of 10 inches. But it has dead rise front to back so it rides smoother and takes waves better. Depends what type of fishing you going to do


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Just to clarify the mitzi 17 has quite a bit more deadrise than the 16. 
I fished a copperhead in the lagoon and it dragged ass at some point at just about every spot I poled.
Figure out where and how you are going to fish.


----------



## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

So the copperhead was not skinny enough to fish the lagoon frequently?


----------



## Jacob_Johnson (Sep 15, 2010)

I have a Mitzi 16 and love it. For it's size it handles chop great and it drafts a true 6" with two people and and a light load. I have a 40hp yamaha 2 stroke on the back though


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

> So the copperhead was not skinny enough to fish the lagoon frequently?


Honestly the copperhead wouldn't be on my list of skiffs for the lagoon. 

The mitzi 16 is a very respectable boat for shallow water poling. I couldn't get past the fact that my decks were warped and would puddle.


----------



## McFly (Jan 17, 2007)

Wet test wet test ....everybody has an opinion....figure what works best for you...








.


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

> Wet test wet test ....everybody has an opinion....figure what works best for you...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed wet test. My definition of ideal may be different from others.


----------



## Gonefishin (Jan 10, 2010)

I own a generation one Copperhead. This past week, I fished in the Rockport, Texas area with a friend in his Mitzi 16. I definitely suggest you try them both before you make a commitment to either.


----------



## davefishing (Dec 16, 2011)

> I own a generation one Copperhead. This past week, I fished in the Rockport, Texas area with a friend in his Mitzi 16. I definitely suggest you try them both before you make a commitment to either.


What did you like or not like about the mitzi 16? PM me if you want to keep it off the forum. I cannot get anything set up to wet test a mitzi 16. Have found a new 2012 that i may buy, but cannot wet test.


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I fished the lagoon perfectly for a week out of my Copperhead. 

I fish the keys out of my copperhead and ENP, super shallow water without any issues at all. Maybe the Copperhead that Erik fished out of wasn't set up for poling or something. But my skiff will pole as shallow as one would ever need a skiff to float.I have video to prove it. 

Mosquito Lagoon in my Copperhead....











When I fished out of there in my skiff, I launched at several ramps. from Riverbreeze, to Beacon, to Biolab, down to the Port st. John ramp in IRL. Poled the NMZ's with ease. Surrounded by tailers on george's bar, caught several on fly there. 

Down here we have to deal with tides. Poling a copperhead is one of the easiest boats I've poled, as they track truer than many of the skiffs in it's class. Only other skiff's that I've poled that tracks as good as it would be a Whipray and a Waterman. And I've poled plenty of skiffs, from all the HPX's V, T, Micro, Dolphin Renegade and Super Skiff, all the Gheenoe models, Caimen, Terrapin skiff, shadowcast, SUV, the list goes on.... Now, a Shadowcast weighs half of what a Copperhead weighs, so pushing it is a little easier. But pushing a Copperhead isn't difficult at all. I just spent a weekend out of Islamorada where I fished with two friends, one that weighs 240 and the other weighing it at 300lbs. I ran to Flamingo saturday and sunday and poled in inches of water catching tailing reds and snook that were backing. I have my Copperhead rigged for poling, as it's all I do. I poled Matt Cox's copperhead with a similar load as far as anglers go but it was much more difficult with a trolling motor and all the extra weight and gear he had on his skiff. Mine is pretty much bare, just casting platform, poling platform, center console with steering and a cooler and push pole. 

My boat will do anything that Shadowcast will do on pole. As I've fished them including the 16 and 18 shadowcasts. 

Here's a video fishing out of my Copperhead. 90% of this was filmed with three anglers on board. One can see where we are poling in inches of water with grass sticking out, where redfish couldn't even keep swimming that they had to turn back around. Footage from Biscayne Bay, Flamingo ENP, Mosquito Lagoon, IRL, Tampa Bay, Florida Keys.....

https://vimeo.com/60124708

I'll invite anyone down here to pole my boat and make an assumption for themselves. 

this is what i was poling around all weekend. I took the photo after Chris released a tailing redfish. This is in about 8" of water.


----------



## hardin083 (Nov 22, 2008)

I usually don't say much on the forum anymore, but really paint it black..... So your skiff goes shallower than the fish can go? Every time I see an ankona thread you are all up in it like a bum on a sandwich. It's gets rather annoying to be honest. We all know that most people will say the skiff they have is the best!! The OP should test both if possible as that is the best way to find out what works for you. But after its all said and done nothing matters but when you are poling in on some good fish and hooking up! I have great days on canoes and in 40k skiffs. Paint it black..... You can stop honking down on bobo so much!! Good luck to the OP on finding your setup... Part of the fun is shopping and getting what you want!


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> I usually don't say much on the forum anymore, but really paint it black..... So your skiff goes shallower than the fish can go?  Every time I see an ankona thread you are all up in it like a bum on a sandwich.   It's gets rather annoying to be honest. We all know that most people will say the skiff they have is the best!!  The OP should test both if possible as that is the best way to find out what works for you.  But after its all said and done nothing matters but when you are poling in on some good fish and hooking up!  I have great days on canoes and in 40k skiffs.   Paint it black..... You can stop honking down on bobo so much!!  Good luck to the OP on finding your setup... Part of the fun is shopping and getting what you want!



I rarely even come on this forum anymore because of people like you. Erik made an ignorant statement that is completely false about the Copperhead. I have proof to back up what I am saying. 

watch this video, at 22 seconds mark. look at how shallow I am poling, with two other anglers on board. we chased 3 redfish as far as they would go. They were forced to stop and turn around because there wasn't enough water for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsmncqTag_c

I state facts. and I have proof to back it up. I am not talking out of my ass. I fished a 13' lowsider for years, pos 12' jon boat that I picked up for $50 on the side of the road with leaks all on it. I have slowly graduated to better and better boats. I have caught fish out of all of them. When did I say you need a Copperhead or any boat for that matter to catch fish? Someone made a false statement, and I was just correcting them. You can catch fish without a boat. But some boats make catching fish easier in certain situations. 

Go ahead, prove me wrong. How can someone who doesn't own a specific boat know it's capabilities? I stated that the statements were false, and posted content that backs me up. What do you want? someone asks about a specific boat, nd you want people that don't own one and have made this wrong judgement in their mind about that one time they used it, rather than someone who's been using one week after week since 2010? Get out of here with that nonsense. I don't make a dime from Ankona, and can careless if I get anyones panties in a bunch. If you knew wth you were talking about, you would remember when I outted them for some nonsense I went through with Ankona on my first Copperhead. They handled it well enough to make me a customer a second time around when I purchased a second boat from them. I don't care what they think of me. 

-Eric


----------



## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

One thing is for certain, PIB's rig sure does catch fish. I see boats much larger and with more draft on the lagoon regularly...


----------



## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

We all over state what are boats can do, how big the fish we caught was, how many we caught, how big the swells/chop was. It's what we do we're fisherman! 

PIB 1st post was a decent informative post about the copperhead and even though a little might be fluff, it was a good post. Offered the OP a wet test and anyone else for that matter. Good post PIB!

I do not own a Mitz or a copperhead nor would I unless the deal was just to good to pass up, not because they are bad boats because the don't fit my needs!!

OP wet test, and then wet test again!


----------



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

Like it or not, there's probably nobody out there more qualified to comment on what a Copperhead can or cannot do than PIB. Still excited about his fishing and maybe a little biased toward the ride he's chosen to do it in?.. Perhaps... but I've also read some of his posts extolling the virtues of other makes and brands. I do not know him, but his posts, pictures, and stories are entertaining and informative, and for the most part seem to reflect the spirit and purpose of this forum. I hope the person who started this post gets the chance to ride in both, and has a blast with whatever he decides to buy.


----------



## vmgator (Jul 5, 2012)

I have a friend that fishes out of a side console copperhead with a 25hp yamaha 2 stroke on a jack plate. It will get up, run, and pole incredibly shallow with two guys on it. Never fished the lagoon, but I'm assuming if the boat can handle the negative tides in Pine Island and pole over exposed grass, then it should be OK out there too. 

I don't know if its how he has the jack plate set up, the permatabs on the boat, or the weight from the trolling motor, but it has a very "bow-down" attitude. Almost strangely bow-down. 

The copperhead is a small boat. I'm sure variations in set up can have large effects on its performance, which is probably why you get mixed reviews. 

I haven't been on a Mitzi.


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> I have a friend that fishes out of a side console copperhead with a 25hp yamaha 2 stroke on a jack plate.  It will get up, run, and pole incredibly shallow with two guys on it.  Never fished the lagoon, but I'm assuming if the boat can handle the negative tides in Pine Island and pole over exposed grass, then it should be OK out there too.
> 
> I don't know if its how he has the jack plate set up, the permatabs on the boat, or the weight from the trolling motor, but it has a very "bow-down" attitude.  Almost strangely bow-down.
> 
> ...



If it's a gen 2, it's because of the hull design. it's made to run with the bow down. I have to run an extreme bow lift prop, and i still barely get any bow lift out of mine. But the stern lift means it runs super shallow.


----------



## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

I have a 15 Mitzi and not sure how much of a difference the 16 is besides the rear sponsons which will help the stern not to dig in when you hammer down out of the hole shot. It will also put the motor more under you on the poling platform which will help balance out the boat especially if your poling alone.
My real numbers with my 15 is draft 6 in. I have poled in shallower water and drug my stern a little. So I got out of the boat and wanted to measure and it was right above my ankles ans that was a full 6 gal tank 2 people Yeti on the bow as my casting platform. 
The boat is dry, but like ANY of these true micro skiffs if it get up say more that 1 ft chop you are going to get a wet. There are ways to fix this which I am working on to do with my boat come winter. Anyway I can run around 33 with 4 blade powertech prop with 2 people 37 with 3 blade. The boat does everything I want it to do. I bought it new and I made a couple of improvements like Flip up bow light, Talon, Seadek, new rod holders on Poling platform, iPilot on my 55 riptide, carpeted the rod holders under the gunnels. 
I also am adding a Atlas mini Jacker and water pressure guage. 
With my Lenco tabs i can pull the bow up and sicne the Mitzi has a ton of bow flare from the deck overhang you can push through the chop pretty good when it does come up. Unless you take one over the bow the only person that will get wet is the one riding on the windward side LOL.

In all the boat is awesome to me and poles like a dream. Fit and finish is great for what you pay for. You can make it better with upgrades that you want later if that is what you want to do. 
There is a ton of people on here that have Ankona and Skull islands which you are going to pay a little more for. I think it just comes down to what you want to wait for or pay for. The boat draft really between the 3 boats Ankona, Skull, Mitzi are probably a half inch or so between the too and at that point its mute. Mitzi probably drafts the least of all because of the way they are designed single hull and probably rides a little more rough than a copperhead. It really comes down to what YOU want though. If you ant to go out in a Mitzi PM me and come on down to AL and I will put you on some nice slot and occasional bull red, plenty of 40+ Blackdrum and heck even a triple tail or two if I can find the dang things with all this rain.


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I have no idea why PIB called my comment ignorant. I never said the copperhead was a bad boat, or that it wasn’t capable of fishing the lagoon. All I said is that it wouldn’t be on my choice of boats for the lagoon. Due to design differences each boat will have certain characteristic plain and simple. I offered an unbiased review on both boats since I have fished from both.
Fit and finish on the copperhead is much nicer, significantly more stable and tracks well. The rig I fished seemed to draft an honest 8-9” which was too much. The mitzi 16 drafts shallower and is much easier to pole, also narrower beam hence the design differences I mentioned above. Craftsmanship and attention to detail on the mitzi are mediocre and the hatches never seem to stay dry inside.

I owned a mitzi 16 for 2 years and fished all over the lagoon with it. I also had the opportunity to fish the copperhead in the same areas I regularly fish. These are the same areas I have fished many other skiffs. The fact that the copperhead dragged through the grass at every spot was frustrating and tiring to deal with. Yes I fished on it one time. One time was enough for me to know it wasn’t a boat I would want to own. I have also seen some comments on how the copperhead drafts a true 5 inches. Now I’m seeing comments on how it can pole over exposed grass. You guys are starting to embellish severely.


----------



## davefishing (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks for the offer to fish with you Jbryan. I wish you would post some pics of your mitzi with all those upgrades. Great reading all this info. And love PIB videos. Never want to share a room with them as I like my sleep. Seems like the copperhead has a little better quality then a Mitzi. Both are the same size 16'L and  70" wide. Seems like the copperhead is a little more stable. Wish their was a video of someone walking the gunnels of a Mitzi.
Mitzi has been around alot longer and have seen only a few complaints about the boat. The gen 2 copperhead has only been around maybe 2 years. Anyone have any quality issues with their gen 2. 
Do either of the boats suffer from gelcoat cracks, assembly issues, leaks, wiring problems.


----------



## mmurray (Jan 16, 2012)

I will jump in as I run a mitzi 16. 
Never been in a Copperhead or fished the lagoon so I am not going to get involved in that discussion. 
In TX we run across alot of open water and really shallow water so I wanted a boat that could take some chop. I am really happy with the Mitzi 16 in that respect. It can handle a heavy chop and feel confident doing it. being wet is something that is going to happen in any small skiff but the mitzi isn't as wet as some others I have been in. 
Boat poles really well, tracks and turns easily, is quiet in a little windchop. It floats shallower than it runs, I do have a jp, tabs which helps it run shallower. It will pole easy in 6-8" depending on the load, get some weight on the bow and off the stern and it will float a bit shallower if you have to cross a sand/oyster bar. 
it is a stable boat for its size. more stable than most skiffs I have been on. I do like the large rounded front deck as well. I think it makes it easier to fish. 
fit and finish are ok. I would say it is on par with the ankonas I have seen. I like the splattercoat interior as it cleans easy and hides some stains. 
I like my boat more each time I am out on it. I got a good deal on it and it fits me and my style of fishing. 
my boat is a CC, Yam 50 2st, JP, trim tabs, homemade compression plate, no tm, battery in the console. runs 33-34 with fishing load, got it up to 38 with just me (downwind, downcurrent, downhill) typically cruise about 4700 at 30-31mph with a stock 3 blade.


----------



## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> Thanks for the offer to fish with you Jbryan. I wish you would post some pics of your mitzi with all those upgrades. Great reading all this info. And love PIB videos. Never want to share a room with them as I like my sleep. Seems like the copperhead has a little better quality then a Mitzi. Both are the same size 16'L and  70" wide. Seems like the copperhead is a little more stable. Wish their was a video of someone walking the gunnels of a Mitzi.
> Mitzi has been around alot longer and have seen only a few complaints about the boat. The gen 2 copperhead has only been around maybe 2 years. Anyone have any quality issues with their gen 2.
> Do either of the boats suffer from gelcoat cracks, assembly issues, leaks, wiring problems.


Here is a few pics
















i think this one was before I stuck Seadek down.







before Talon sits level now still







custom bracket for Talon weights 3lbs instead of the 65 lb Minn Kota bracket
























Sissy bar comes in handy when it gets choppy and polling.  If I don't use it I stow it upside down on the front of the platform







prop
I can take a video of the gunnel walk around but it want be till about a week as I am going out of town unless plans change. 
Don't get me wrong it can be tippy especially walking on the gunnels.  By yourself it is fine with 2 people and you need to watch each other if you are going to walk on the gunnels.  It really is not that bad though.  I was on a gladesman and I thought I was gonna fall out of the thing.  I think it is more stable than a Skull Island also.  Copperhead never seen one up close just picks and from videos I can say they look the same as far as tippy goes.
oh and since these shots I have upgraded the PP to a Stiffy Hybrid 24ft and man I can tell you it makes a huge difference in the pole you use to pole. that Fiberglass one would work you over big time. Plus I went an extra 5 feet and It seems to help. The longer the pole and the lighter the pole the less the effort. Just a little more info on that. I also can remove my trolling motor and mount it now on another puck in the rear of the boat to use my fly rod.


----------



## cturner149 (Jul 3, 2012)

> I have a 15 Mitzi and not sure how much of a difference the 16 is besides the rear sponsons which will help the stern not to dig in when you hammer down out of the hole shot.  It will also put the motor more under you on the poling platform which will help balance out the boat especially if your poling alone.
> My real numbers with my 15 is draft 6 in.  I have poled in shallower water and drug my stern a little.  So I got out of the boat and wanted to measure and it was right above my ankles ans that was a full 6 gal tank 2 people Yeti on the bow as my casting platform.
> The boat is dry, but like ANY of these true micro skiffs if it get up  say more that 1 ft chop you are going to get a wet.  There are ways to fix this which I am working on to do with my boat come winter.  Anyway I can run around 33 with 4 blade powertech prop with 2 people 37 with 3 blade.  The boat does everything I want it to do.  I bought it new and I made a couple of improvements like Flip up bow light, Talon, Seadek, new rod holders on Poling platform, iPilot on my 55 riptide, carpeted the rod holders under the gunnels.
> I also am adding a Atlas mini Jacker and water pressure guage.
> ...


Challenge accepted.   










...no bottom drag.


----------



## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> > I have a 15 Mitzi and not sure how much of a difference the 16 is besides the rear sponsons which will help the stern not to dig in when you hammer down out of the hole shot.  It will also put the motor more under you on the poling platform which will help balance out the boat especially if your poling alone.
> > My real numbers with my 15 is draft 6 in.  I have poled in shallower water and drug my stern a little.  So I got out of the boat and wanted to measure and it was right above my ankles ans that was a full 6 gal tank 2 people Yeti on the bow as my casting platform.
> > The boat is dry, but like ANY of these true micro skiffs if it get up  say more that 1 ft chop you are going to get a wet.  There are ways to fix this which I am working on to do with my boat come winter.  Anyway I can run around 33 with 4 blade powertech prop with 2 people 37 with 3 blade.  The boat does everything I want it to do.  I bought it new and I made a couple of improvements like Flip up bow light, Talon, Seadek, new rod holders on Poling platform, iPilot on my 55 riptide, carpeted the rod holders under the gunnels.
> > I also am adding a Atlas mini Jacker and water pressure guage.
> ...


I'm game only diff is 17' vs 15'. I will need you on the front of mine to balance it out.  Lol I don't have any shots but we can go and get some


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> I have no idea why PIB called my comment ignorant. I never said the copperhead was a bad boat, or that it wasn’t capable of fishing the lagoon. All I said is that it wouldn’t be on my choice of boats for the lagoon. Due to design differences each boat will have certain characteristic plain and simple. I offered an unbiased review on both boats since I have fished from both.
> Fit and finish on the copperhead is much nicer, significantly more stable and tracks well. The rig I fished seemed to draft an honest 8-9” which was too much. The mitzi 16 drafts shallower and is much easier to pole, also narrower beam hence the design differences I mentioned above. Craftsmanship and attention to detail on the mitzi are mediocre and the hatches never seem to stay dry inside.
> 
> I owned a mitzi 16 for 2 years and fished all over the lagoon with it.  I also had the opportunity to fish the copperhead in the same areas I regularly fish. These are the same areas I have fished many other skiffs. The fact that the copperhead dragged through the grass at every spot was frustrating and tiring to deal with. Yes I fished on it one time. One time was enough for me to know it wasn’t a boat I would want to own. I* have also seen some comments on how the copperhead drafts a true 5 inches. Now I’m seeing comments on how it can pole over exposed grass. You guys are starting to embellish severely.*


I posted video showing us poling with three anglers in exposed grass...... What else do you want? Come on down, jump on my skiff. I will show you how shallow I can pole. I'll go wherever you go in your shadowcast, and more comfortably.


----------



## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

> > I have no idea why PIB called my comment ignorant. I never said the copperhead was a bad boat, or that it wasn’t capable of fishing the lagoon. All I said is that it wouldn’t be on my choice of boats for the lagoon. Due to design differences each boat will have certain characteristic plain and simple. I offered an unbiased review on both boats since I have fished from both.
> > Fit and finish on the copperhead is much nicer, significantly more stable and tracks well. The rig I fished seemed to draft an honest 8-9” which was too much. The mitzi 16 drafts shallower and is much easier to pole, also narrower beam hence the design differences I mentioned above. Craftsmanship and attention to detail on the mitzi are mediocre and the hatches never seem to stay dry inside.
> >
> > I owned a mitzi 16 for 2 years and fished all over the lagoon with it.  I also had the opportunity to fish the copperhead in the same areas I regularly fish. These are the same areas I have fished many other skiffs. The fact that the copperhead dragged through the grass at every spot was frustrating and tiring to deal with. Yes I fished on it one time. One time was enough for me to know it wasn’t a boat I would want to own. I* have also seen some comments on how the copperhead drafts a true 5 inches. Now I’m seeing comments on how it can pole over exposed grass. You guys are starting to embellish severely.*
> ...


The SUV and the copperhead can both go where a shadow cast can go. That's says more about the SC than the others.

PS it's almost been 30 days


----------

