# Lottery for Guides Harvesting



## Guest (Nov 18, 2018)

Me being me, I have to say I’m on the fence here! While I can see your point and agree that this would be somewhat fair, I don’t want to impede someones income either. It would have to be recreational and commercial to be fair. Also, I hope that when the regs are set fish and wildlife takes this additional harvest into consideration. Also, I’m not an advocate of more governing. But you have a idea at least, maybe some of the great minds here can chime in!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I totally agree and I have my OUPV license. We should all do what’s best for the resource. A big problem I have is how greedy people are. All most of them want to do is take a picture for social media with a pile of dead fish and then either give the meat away or take it home and add it to the pile of freezer burned fillets. People think of fishing like a trip to the grocery store and that’s not what it should be. Some guides are teaching clients how to enjoy the sport and respect the resource. Taking home a bag of fillets is not what it should be about in my honest opinion. 
If anyone jumps your ass for being concerned they are ignorant. There are a lot more things that should be addressed that pertain to fishery management but it’s like you guys fighting the water quality problem.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2018)

Nothing wrong with keepin dinner, but Pics like these are better than the meat hangar pics many post, in my opinion!


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## Plantation (Nov 24, 2015)

I believe some limits in general should be more strict. Maybe even more so for guides. If you win a lottery and your guide friend doesn't then he may be getting screwed on the amount of trips he receives compared to you or previous years. Kind of screws someone who may have always relied on clients as an income. But if every "Guide" has a stricter harvesting limit, then its fair for all and the clients won't be biased no matter what guide he chooses. Some of those guides, especially in Louisiana, kill way to many fish every single day. Its sickening and you know half those fish are currently freezer burned in someones freezer.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Come on it is the American way, take all you want if you don’t use it just throw it away! Why infringe on others rights??
Next thing you’ll want is fines for wanton waste or failure to pursue like in big game hunting. I know for a fact all those Instagram models and their guides getting hash tags, are carefully reviving those fish and releasing them after posing for 15minutes.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Hey its even worse in LA where the guides also keep their limit and at the end of the day give those fish to their clients.

1. WAY too many guides. And I do mean WAY too many.
2. Limits are too liberal in some areas such as LA. There are a lot of variables that affect the biomass an area can sustain so to me a conservative approach is warranted. Nobody needs to kill 5 redfish or 25 trout like in LA. Thats just nonsense.
3. Tournaments are ....never mind......


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Down here we not only have skewed gill net surveys (really??? This is the best method?) and guides that run clients through like cattle so they can squeeze in 2-3 trips a day. We dropped from 10 to 5 trout per day and these crybabies acted like it was going to be the end of the world. Now they’ll charge for a half day trip and run out and catch 5 trout per person and drop that group off so they can catch another boat load of clients and do that 2-3 times a day. Facebook guides bragging about being “done” by 8:30am and back to the ramp like it’s a damn race. It’s embarassing.
Our STAR Tournament is another dumbass idea...3 month kill tournament where no live weigh in is allowed and people kill 300-400 sow trout over 8 pounds to win 3 spots on the upper, middle and lower coast. Really awesome of the “conservation association” to put this kill tournament on. Why don’t they tag 20 18” trout and release them like they do for the redfish division?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Hey its even worse in LA where the guides also keep their limit and at the end of the day give those fish to their clients.
> 
> 1. WAY too many guides. And I do mean WAY too many.
> 2. Limits are too liberal in some areas such as LA. There are a lot of variables that affect the biomass an area can sustain so to me a conservative approach is warranted. Nobody needs to kill 5 redfish or 25 trout like in LA. Thats just nonsense.
> 3. Tournaments are ....never mind......


I totally agree!

Down here further south on the Gulf side of Florida, it's down to a very short slot window for 1 red, 1 snook during season and 3 trout, all within a tight limit. And since our red tide, we can't keep any reds or snook until well into 2019 or TBD (they have't really made up their minds about it yet, so TBD). Also here, the guides are not allow to take fish anymore themselves while on charter, from my understanding.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I've been with 5 Tarpon guides over my fly fishing carreer. Never caught a fish. So my guides are off the hook for dead fish


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

permitchaser said:


> I've been with 5 Tarpon guides over my fly fishing carreer. Never caught a fish. So my guides are off the hook for dead fish


You must be skimping on cheap guides too...


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Texas guides are not allowed to retain limits of fish as part of the total angler limit. Floridians and Texans voted for less protection and regulation of the coastal zones on November 6. The most important factor in fisheries is habitat preservation and expansion/improvement. Which is more important to the future, gun rights and abortion law or the environment we live in?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

We need to deport all the illegal immigrants and tighten up on enforcing the laws we already have. It’s not all guides fault I promise. Game Wardens around here would rather bust a good ol’ taxpayer for not having the proper safety equipment than do anything about all the bank fishermen hauling off every single fish they catch with no regard for the law. It all comes down to numbers...imagine that.


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> We need to deport all the illegal immigrants and tighten up on enforcing the laws we already have. It’s not all guides fault I promise. Game Wardens around here would rather bust a good ol’ taxpayer for not having the proper safety equipment than do anything about all the bank fishermen hauling off every single fish they catch with no regard for the law. It all comes down to numbers...imagine that.


I do wish more guides would push for CPR than keeping fish. I think there is a lot of people who take guided trips who get fish pushed on them. It happens. 

As far as GWs go I agree. I’ve seen to many people cast netting down a jetty or creek putting everything they catch in a 5 gallon bucket. It’s sickening. Don’t even get me started on worthless crabbers who keep everything in a pot from whole stone crabs to flounder. They just open it up and dump it in the boat.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I've got to disagree a bit on this topic - and I came from a time when many, many so-called recreational anglers were actually selling their catch (a practice that ended quite a few years back, thank heavens..). We are literally in much, much better shape now as far as regulations that watch fish populations closely and pretty carefully control what's killed in a given species... 

That said, there are some very real downsides to our current world - much more is known now about the "how to" aspect in fishing -and with good quality electronics there's just no such thing any more as a secret spot... Back before gps and other innovations there were lots of places where fish could thrive - and never see an angler... That's just not the case today.. I can also remember when a "flats skiff" was a rare sight (and usually someone you knew...). Those early backcountry boats needed more water to float in back then. As a result there were lots of "safe places" where the fish able to move around with no one even able to get to them. Once again -that's just not the case now.... 

Each day I leave it up to my anglers as to whether we're going to be doing catch and release - or keeping a fish or two for the table -and that never (in spite of the temptation...) includes my limit.. As long as the state (here in Florida...) keeps a close eye on their fisheries and sets reasonable limits - I never worry in the slightest about keeping a fish for the table for me or my customers... As a matter of fact with the short seasons and very carefully designed slot sizes... I fish a lot of anglers that would like to bring a snook home - but rarely ever manage it (and we catch and release a bunch of nice snook during one closed season or other.... ). And between shorts and over-slot fish we're not ever beating up the snook during the open season either.... I figure that's the way it was designed by the state...

Like I said we're head and shoulders better off now than we were years ago as far as fisheries conservation... Fishing pressure... now that's another topic entirely...


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## AgAngler2370 (May 5, 2017)

I think it’s a mentality that is slowly changing. The predominant attitude used to be the success of a fishing trip was how many legal fish you could put in the boat. I think this was why live bait became so popular. I know a lot of people that really have no desire to actually fish but love to catch. I see this changing as our resources are in greater competition and become more scarce. Finally now since there isn’t as many fish to catch the emphasis is shifting to the quality of the fish and technique of catch. This is a good thing and will hopefully only increase with future generations. I also think that so many new/younger guides feel like they have to prove themselves by killing limits to post pics on FB and get clients.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

The system ain't perfect. But I think, at least here in the Great State of Texas, we have a pretty progressive -- and competent -- Parks and Wildlife Department. They are dedicated to improving the resource, and I think that overall, they do a great job. Possession limits are based on the numbers of licensed anglers, and I would hazard a guess that they work on quantifying the ratios of catch and release anglers vs. meat anglers vs. the guys who occasionally keep enough for a meal. 

As Captain LeMay pointed out, technology has come a long way, and the resource certainly receives a lot more pressure than it did when I was fishing Biscayne Bay and the Keys in the sixties. I don't know about Florida, but here in Texas the Game Wardens are stretched very thin. And I don't see the state ponying up to double or triple their numbers, at least not in my lifetime. 

Another problem we face everywhere is the growing attitude that it's unethical, or immoral, or some other kind of bad, to intervene when we observe people abusing our resources. Most people any more won't even make a call to report it; they don't want to be considered a "rat" or to suffer repercussions from the crooks. And a steadily growing segment of our society considers disregarding the laws a badge of honor. As a cop, I hear countless stories of how people witnessed blatant disregard for the law, yet did nothing. No phone call. No photographs. No descriptions. But those same people want to know why the cops, or the GWs, or the Sheriff's Office, or the dog catcher, weren't there to catch them. Simple fact of life, folks: if you have four GWs assigned to a county, they aren't going to catch the biggest portion of violators. Not without a lot of help. If our resource is going to survive, we -- WE -- we, the sportsmen, need to take a hand in safeguarding the resource. We need to change the attitudes of the anglers who think it's immoral to report violators, and we need to set a positive example for the ones on the fringe.

Lest anyone take offense, rest assured that this is not a blanket indictment of all anglers; I know that a lot of us do the right thing. But I've heard too many tales about the blatant violations that people have witnessed, and often embellished, as they tell me what they saw. But when I ask why they didn't make the phone call, and I get the look of horror and the "What??? You want me to narc somebody out??? What kind of person do you think I am?" question, I feel that we are losing the battle.

Whew! Okay, rant off......


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

Str8-Six said:


> I’m probably going to get shot for this but here is one thought. So I’ve noticed that everyone and their mother is a guide nowadays. Which is great but I can imagine that that has a real effect on our fishiery. When a guide takes a client out there is a conflict of interest: The guide wants to preserve the fishiery but the client wants to keep the fish. And I doubt a majority of guides are telling their clients they can’t keep fish when their pocket depends on their client’s satisfaction. What’s everyone’s thought on a lottery for fishing guides harvesting (just like duck hunting)? Not saying their should be a lottery for guides but a lottery on whether the guide can harvest certain species. They could still guide but no keeping Reds/Snook/Trout/Etc unless they get lottery. I think this would help eliminate the conflict of interest issue since the client would know ahead of time they can’t keep fish. Honesty, I think if nothing like this happens now, I think a more extreme solution will happen years from now, like limiting the number of guides period. Thoughts?



I tell my clients catch and release only and explain why. I dont guide for the money or depend on it for my livelihood either.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

hipshot said:


> The system ain't perfect. But I think, at least here in the Great State of Texas, we have a pretty progressive -- and competent -- Parks and Wildlife Department. They are dedicated to improving the resource, and I think that overall, they do a great job. Possession limits are based on the numbers of licensed anglers, and I would hazard a guess that they work on quantifying the ratios of catch and release anglers vs. meat anglers vs. the guys who occasionally keep enough for a meal.
> 
> As Captain LeMay pointed out, technology has come a long way, and the resource certainly receives a lot more pressure than it did when I was fishing Biscayne Bay and the Keys in the sixties. I don't know about Florida, but here in Texas the Game Wardens are stretched very thin. And I don't see the state ponying up to double or triple their numbers, at least not in my lifetime.
> 
> ...


It’s pretty easy. Out of the 4 wardens per county one should take shifts and post up at all the bank fishing spots and start writing citations. They would need to tow an enclosed trailer full of ticket books and pens if they did that. Hell just go to the popular flounder run spots and have a field day ticketing these idiots that fish with no license and no idea what the regulations are. Another place to patrol right now are the duck hunting hit spots where these blowboats are running around plowing down mangroves and saltgrass all day instead of staying in the channels. All that is too much work, they would rather post up near the boat ramps and pull people over to check for whistles and flare guns while making people drift aimlessly in the middle of the ICW. I see it all summer long. They don’t want to hand out tickets to poor people that will never pay the fines just like the emergency room visits they make for having a cold or pink eye when people are bleeding to death waiting in line. 
TPWD uses gill net surveys to count fish...there’s not a better way this day and age where you’re not killing everything you count? Sounds counter productive to me. 
What about all the fishing tournaments? There are so many on Saturdays that they are beginning to have them all week long down here. It’s not a Florida problem or a fishing guide problem, it’s a people problem.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Foreigners, legal or not. Don’t really care, are terrible offenders in my area. Keep everything they catch. Load up on illegal catches during runs at the jetty. Back to the original post. I’m also on the fence. I don’t like more laws. I don’t think guides and clients should keep fish just as I don’t think there should be tournaments for pictures of big ole dumb redfish. Then there are people that think I should not fish or boat at all. Let those in charge determine if the resource can support the pressure. If we pressure those in charge, someone else will pressure them to get rid of us.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Mac, I agree that gill netting appears to be a poor way to assess the resource. But to be fair, I've never asked TPWD for their justification on the topic. There may (or may not) be some perspectives we haven't considered.

Another factor most folks don't consider is the GW's schedule. An eight hour day doesn't mean eight hours of busting violators. It means a lot of paperwork (if it ain't written it never happened). One arrest, with the transportation, booking, and offense report, will often take up over half of a shift. It means investigations, and processing evidence. It means mandated training. It means court time. It means firearms training and certifications, as well as time spent conducting classes if the officer is an instructor. It means vehicle, boat, and equipment maintenance. It means SAR missions. Add in vacation time, holiday time, and temporary duty in other areas as required. And, as in the case of one friend of mine, following a citizen complaint (which was known to be BS from the start, but all complaints are required to be formally investigated), it means several days away from one's assignment to cooperate with the internal investigation at regional HQ. And as complaints are processed, GWs are often ordered to devote more time to certain issues. It's not all as simple as it seems on the face of it. It's easy to say they could do more good by doing this, or doing that, but you may not have the whole picture. At any rate, they have to follow orders. Any group of people will have its slackards. But taken as a whole, I would have to rate the Texas Game Wardens very high for their competence and professionalism. And I'll stand firm on that assessment.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You must be skimping on cheap guides too...


lol
last trip i spent $1,000 on guide fee, hotel, food and Uber. Didn't have to pay for my flight.
Not seen any cheap guides


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

So I’m not saying all guides are a problem to our fishery. Their are a lot of guides like Lemay and Prince that want to preserve our fishieries. I’m saying that people that abuse the system are a problem. Someone that fishes 200 plus days a year is going to keep a lot more fish than someone that fishes 50. No skiff, guide or not should be able to keep 200 plus reds a year, that’s just crazy. Maybe they should cap how many you can keep per year. But the how do you enforce that? I see us either having a little more enforcement now or I see extreme enforcement years from now. Unfortunately people fix problems after they happen instead of finding a solution to prevent the problem in the first place. It’s the way it’s always been.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2018)

@Str8-Six, I truly believe the solution “like previously mentioned” is education. Many of us are already doing that and have been for a while. If you reach one person and that person reaches one person and that person etc... it rolls on and that is happening now. I respect your thinking here but believe we are already doing something at the same time and that is educating people on the issue.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

permitchaser said:


> lol
> last trip i spent $1,000 on guide fee, hotel, food and Uber. Didn't have to pay for my flight.
> Not seen any cheap guides


Call Russel K. My first guided trip was with him a we did very well. Rumor is that his birth mother is actually a tarpon


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Ban red wiffle ball bats and a baitwells full of 500 greenies and you solved the problem.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Str8-Six said:


> So I’m not saying all guides are a problem to our fishery. Their are a lot of guides like Lemay and Prince that want to preserve our fishieries. I’m saying that people that abuse the system are a problem. Someone that fishes 200 plus days a year is going to keep a lot more fish than someone that fishes 50. No skiff, guide or not should be able to keep 200 plus reds a year, that’s just crazy. Maybe they should cap how many you can keep per year. But the how do you enforce that? I see us either having a little more enforcement now or I see extreme enforcement years from now. Unfortunately people fix problems after they happen instead of finding a solution to prevent the problem in the first place. It’s the way it’s always been.


Most people need to be regulated because they can’t regulate themselves. Greed will generally override proactivity...
Has anyone noticed how the largemouth bass guys protect their fish? Maybe us on the coast should take notes and follow suit. I don’t need gill net and boat ramp surveys to make me do the right thing. 
The effects man has on the fishery was never part of Mother Nature’s equation! How hard is it for people to realize how simple it truly is? THE MORE FISH YOU TAKE OUT OF THE WATER AND DON’T PUT BACK EQUALS FEWER FISH IN THE WATER.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Ban red wiffle ball bats and a baitwells full of 500 greenies and you solved the problem.


No.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Most people need to be regulated because they can’t regulate themselves. Greed will generally override proactivity...
> Has anyone noticed how the largemouth bass guys protect their fish? Maybe us on the coast should take notes and follow suit. I don’t need gill net and boat ramp surveys to make me do the right thing.
> The effects man has on the fishery was never part of Mother Nature’s equation! How hard is it for people to realize how simple it truly is? THE MORE FISH YOU TAKE OUT OF THE WATER AND DON’T PUT BACK EQUALS FEWER FISH IN THE WATER.


Same bass protectors will kill a limit of fish on the coast without batting an eye.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Capnredfish said:


> Foreigners, legal or not. Don’t really care, are terrible offenders in my area. Keep everything they catch. Load up on illegal catches during runs at the jetty. Back to the original post. I’m also on the fence. I don’t like more laws. I don’t think guides and clients should keep fish just as I don’t think there should be tournaments for pictures of big ole dumb redfish. Then there are people that think I should not fish or boat at all. Let those in charge determine if the resource can support the pressure. If we pressure those in charge, someone else will pressure them to get rid of us.


If “they” say it’s legal it has to be right? Wrong!
I find it odd and quite hipocritical that down here the Coastal Conservation Association holds the longest and biggest kill tournament of the year. The MINIMUM weight to enter a trout is 8 pounds...you MUST kill it to win and it only costs $25 to enter a three month tournament. Every hillbilly that wets a line and doesn’t own a scale thinks they are going to win when they catch, kill and attempt to weigh in a 7-7 1/2 pound trout because they don’t know any better. This adds up to several hundred dead sow trout every summer on top of all the kill tournaments we already have. It’s blatantly ignorant! I’ve preached it for several years now and people just scoff at me for my proposterous way of thinking. I could go on...maybe I will.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Surffshr said:


> Same bass protectors will kill a limit of fish on the coast without batting an eye.


Because everyone else does it and inshore fish are unlimited!


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Since no one has brought it up yet, I submit that environmental concerns are every bit as important to sustaining the resource as balancing the harvest. Let’s not ignore that aspect of the issue. If the resource can’t sustain a viable reproductive profile, or maintain the necessary recruitment of fry, it will do no good to reduce the harvest. I know that in Texas, water quality issues and habitat loss are genuine concerns.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

hipshot said:


> Since no one has brought it up yet, I submit that environmental concerns are every bit as important to sustaining the resource as balancing the harvest. Let’s not ignore that aspect of the issue. If the resource can’t sustain a viable reproductive profile, or maintain the necessary recruitment of fry, it will do no good to reduce the harvest. I know that in Texas, water quality issues and habitat loss are genuine concerns.


All of that goes back to a people problem. Lots (all) of our nasties from upstream end up in our bays and compound issues such as over fishing.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

The problem is that to some this is a passion, to others it is a sport, and to many more it is a source of food for families.
There's no one solution that will make everyone happy.
I think stronger penalties against offenders should be step one. I recently saw a Texas Game Wardens article that said they caught two guys with 105 flounder (62 of which were undersized)
It also said cases and civil restitution were "pending"
Put these guys in jail for (X) amount of days per illegal fish. Fine them too. Lets see how often this crap happens.

https://www.bigcountryhomepage.com/...eGW99jPHXOFzrCHFdUAj0VRHWfg2xEhAzyi2omwEwkR4E


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If “they” say it’s legal it has to be right? Wrong!
> I find it odd and quite hipocritical that down here the Coastal Conservation Association holds the longest and biggest kill tournament of the year. The MINIMUM weight to enter a trout is 8 pounds...you MUST kill it to win and it only costs $25 to enter a three month tournament. Every hillbilly that wets a line and doesn’t own a scale thinks they are going to win when they catch, kill and attempt to weigh in a 7-7 1/2 pound trout because they don’t know any better. This adds up to several hundred dead sow trout every summer on top of all the kill tournaments we already have. It’s blatantly ignorant! I’ve preached it for several years now and people just scoff at me for my proposterous way of thinking. I could go on...maybe I will.


Well, correct just because it’s legal does not make it right. No tournaments and no guided harvesting. Recreational take only would be my ideal plan.
The only issue like I said before. When we want things one way. Someone else wants it their way. And usually people like us get the shaft.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Godzuki86 said:


> No.


It's way too easy that way was my point didn't mean to strike a nerve but poling a flat or chumming shorelines which one is harder ie less chance of loading up with your limits of fish.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

A major issue that seems to come up anytime I talk with my local FWC guys is when they do make an arrest or write a summons to appear for wildlife crime and Judges view them as victimless crimes. Anyone who cares about the resource and abides by the law are the victims. FWC tends to do their job but its deflating when punishments for crimes are not upheld.

I have complained numerous times over the amount of blue crab traps in my area, I'm told alot came down from Chesapeake bay. Dont get me started on the shrimping industry and amount of wasted bycatch from their nets either.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Noted that the responses on this topic are coming from more than one state - and each state has its own conservation laws (and its own level of enforcement) so here are some additional things to consider... You have to make a clear decision about just what fish are going to be protected (not just from netting - but also absolutely from any buying and selling...). I've donated trips for auction to not only Florida.. but also to Louisiana and Texas.. I'd be glad to add Alabama to that list (particularly since they still have some issues they could use some help with ...). All of this was for the CCA in each state (and I began when here in Florida they were still the FCA....).

Remember as well that usually in any state the game/fish enforcement is at the end of the line when it comes to funding (and any young city cop is guaranteed to make more money to begin with than a state wildlife type after five years on the job) -that hasn't changed, by the way, since I was a cop here in Florida. I retired out in 1995 - after surviving 22 years on the streets back when things weren't as "civilized" as they are now (we really did have bad boys chasing each other down the road, machine guns blazing, back then...). What I'm trying to point out is that they could use some support when it comes down to funding time - in every state...

Lastly those that ignore or deliberately break our fish and game laws need to be stopped, period... I would never bother with a family at the bottom of the ladder trying to fill a bucket to feed their family - but folks who should know better - hand them up, period. Don't expect immediate action since the vast portion of conservation laws aren't felonies.... That means that the cop has to see it happening for action to occur. Don't be discouraged - if there's a spot where most of the folks are lawbreaking - it will get some attention - if they know about it...

As far as tournaments go -simply don't participate in any that require dead fish on the dock... That's a lesson we learned in my state years ago. Catch, photo (with a measuring stick that's been inspected by the tournament then release) is the only way to go. Folks that run tournaments won't know - unless you tell them - so don't be shy...

It's all an on-going process. Here in Florida we lost every conservation battle we ever fought in the late 1970's - in the eighties we won an occasional fight. We turned it all around in the nineties - and so it goes... None of those gains are permanent - we'll still be fighting them when I'm no longer able to fish so others will have to step up. That's just the way it is...


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Ban red wiffle ball bats and a baitwells full of 500 greenies and you solved the problem.


THIS!!!!


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> It's way too easy that way was my point didn't mean to strike a nerve but poling a flat or chumming shorelines which one is harder ie less chance of loading up with your limits of fish.


How the fish are caught is irrelevant. How many are kept is the number we are discussing here. I’ve had days where I’ve caught 40 redfish and didn’t keep a single one. There are days where I’ve caught one redfish on artificial and kept it. Because it’s not how you would do it doesn’t make it wrong or in need of a ban.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Last year I called FWC when I witnessed a guy pull up to the ramp, hustle a cooler from the boat to his truck, then return to his boat for more fishing. The officer who answered told me there was nothing she could do unless I witnessed a violation and hung up on me. Me being me, I immediately called back and asked to speak to a supervisor. I explained the situation, my professional background and provided a brief rundown on the concept of reasonable articulable suspicion regarding making a law enforcement stop. I don't know if anyone ever went to make contact with the guy, as I left for the day. I know wildlife officers are overworked, but I was definitely not happy with the way that was handled; the initial officer just didn't give a damn at all. I'll take ten people who care about the resource over 100 who are just getting a paycheck.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I plainly state on my website and let all my clients know I am catch and release only and if they would like to keep fish I am happy to reccommend another guide. I'm not an @ss about it but want to make sure my anglers understand what they are getting and I tell them why. A little communication goes a very long way when booking as well as when on the water.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

SomaliPirate said:


> Last year I called FWC when I witnessed a guy pull up to the ramp, hustle a cooler from the boat to his truck, then return to his boat for more fishing. The officer who answered told me there was nothing she could do unless I witnessed a violation and hung up on me. Me being me, I immediately called back and asked to speak to a supervisor. I explained the situation, my professional background and provided a brief rundown on the concept of reasonable articulable suspicion regarding making a law enforcement stop. I don't know if anyone ever went to make contact with the guy, as I left for the day. I know wildlife officers are overworked, but I was definitely not happy with the way that was handled; the initial officer just didn't give a damn at all. I'll take ten people who care about the resource over 100 who are just getting a paycheck.



You need a Tim Sweat down where you're at then, that guy nails people left and right. Google "Tim Sweat FWC" ha.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Godzuki86 said:


> How the fish are caught is irrelevant. How many are kept is the number we are discussing here. I’ve had days where I’ve caught 40 redfish and didn’t keep a single one. There are days where I’ve caught one redfish on artificial and kept it. Because it’s not how you would do it doesn’t make it wrong or in need of a ban.


Less fish caught means less stress on the fish less stress less dead fish and as smack said everyone wants pictires more fish handling pretty basic math there.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2018)

nativejax said:


> I plainly state on my website and let all my clients know I am catch and release only and if they would like to keep fish I am happy to reccommend another guide. I'm not an @ss about it but want to make sure my anglers understand what they are getting and I tell them why. A little communication goes a very long way when booking as well as when on the water.


This is a great way to do it! Just let’em know!


SomaliPirate said:


> Last year I called FWC when I witnessed a guy pull up to the ramp, hustle a cooler from the boat to his truck, then return to his boat for more fishing. The officer who answered told me there was nothing she could do unless I witnessed a violation and hung up on me. Me being me, I immediately called back and asked to speak to a supervisor. I explained the situation, my professional background and provided a brief rundown on the concept of reasonable articulable suspicion regarding making a law enforcement stop. I don't know if anyone ever went to make contact with the guy, as I left for the day. I know wildlife officers are overworked, but I was definitely not happy with the way that was handled; the initial officer just didn't give a damn at all. I'll take ten people who care about the resource over 100 who are just getting a paycheck.


You’d think they would want to check it out, possession limits apply so they could have went to the ramp and inspected at least!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Less fish caught means less stress on the fish less stress less dead fish and as smack said everyone wants pictires more fish handling pretty basic math there.


A dead fish is a dead fish no matter how it’s caught but bait does make it easier for a guide to catch a limit and head back instead of showing the clients how to catch fish on lures and get something other than a sack of meat to take home and throw in the freezer.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Less fish caught means less stress on the fish less stress less dead fish and as smack said everyone wants pictires more fish handling pretty basic math there.


No, it’s not “basic math”. If you are worried about stressing fish out by catching them you should sell your boat and get a new hobby. The reason there is an issue with numbers of fish now is because of the state of the water. Not anglers stressing fish out by catching them and releasing them “stressed” to die. A fish is no more stressed out eating a live bait versus a feather. Get off your pedestal. 

The guides that I know that only run catch and release charters state this up front in either a contract form or on their website. The anglers go in knowing what they are doing. There is no hostility and these guides still have plenty of business.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> A dead fish is a dead fish no matter how it’s caught but bait does make it easier for a guide to catch a limit and head back instead of showing the clients how to catch fish on lures and get something other than a sack of meat to take home and throw in the freezer.


As the ol’ sayin goes... 
give a man a fish, feed him for a day
Teach a man to fish, frustrate him for a lifetime!


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2018)

Still on the fence fellas!
Nothing wring with keepin a couple for the table, but no point in keepin them all! There’s got to be a happy median that won’t hinder a persons living too! Ya’ll come up with that plan and ya got my vote!


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## Lee Singleton (Jul 3, 2018)

I think it’s a great idea. In places like NC where the redfish population is struggling (we still have legal Inshore gill nets) any regulation that keeps more fish alive is a pluss. I hate keeping redfish period, I only do it if there guy hooked. I think guides that are taking 3-4 clients a day and killing a lint every day sure as hell don’t help the population. I don’t want to impose on anyone’s lively hood, but you have got to protect the resource.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Godzuki86 said:


> No, it’s not “basic math”. If you are worried about stressing fish out by catching them you should sell your boat and get a new hobby. The reason there is an issue with numbers of fish now is because of the state of the water. Not anglers stressing fish out by catching them and releasing them “stressed” to die. *A fish is no more stressed out eating a live bait versus a feather.* Get off your pedestal.
> 
> The guides that I know that only run catch and release charters state this up front in either a contract form or on their website. The anglers go in knowing what they are doing. There is no hostility and these guides still have plenty of business.


That is factually incorrect and there have been tons of studies to prove it. Fish tend to take bait much deeper than they do so with artificials and especially flies.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Boatbrains said:


> Still on the fence fellas!
> Nothing wring with keepin a couple for the table, but no point in keepin them all! There’s got to be a happy median that won’t hinder a persons living too! Ya’ll come up with that plan and ya got my vote!


The problem is nothing will make everyone happy but no matter what fishery you’re in if it’s in a decline something has to be done and that means pissing someone off. So be it. It comes down to money. Here in Texas they are scared to death to hurt anyone’s feelings by limiting tournaments, guides, airboats, seagrass choppers etc because they stimulate the economy. If TPWD tightened up on restrictions and actually enforced them it would send a lot of these bread and butter guides home and if we deported the illegals and started busting these bank fishing meat haulers that get away with everything the fishery would flourish. The sad thing is that ain’t happening, cash is king. All I can do is try to educate as many people as possible and the ones that don’t like it can stay home and stay far away from me. Bottom line is none of our fisheries are as good as they were “back in the day” and it’s generally a few issues that caused it. 
• Too many people
• Too much fishing pressure (meat hauling, shoreline burning, tournaments killing ungodly amounts of fish, Conservation Associations holding fish kill tournaments that condone weighing in dead breeder trout
• Too many boats running over every square inch of water and in some cases land (airboats) causing fish to change their habits
• Too many meat hauling guides with too many googan customers that have no clue why freezer burning fish is not cool
• Too many social media whores thinking their dead fish pictures are somehow making them popular and getting them some free Chinese rods and lures they’ll never use
• Oyster boats raping and raking the reefs flat (habitat destruction) and causing water quality issues because oysters are the bay filters
• Too much runoff caused by agriculture and sewage 
• Not enough enforcement of laws we already have in place
• Too many “keep everything they catch because they are poor and trying to feed their family” fishermen. Fishing is a luxury, not a necessity.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Godzuki86 said:


> No, it’s not “basic math”. If you are worried about stressing fish out by catching them you should sell your boat and get a new hobby. The reason there is an issue with numbers of fish now is because of the state of the water. Not anglers stressing fish out by catching them and releasing them “stressed” to die. A fish is no more stressed out eating a live bait versus a feather. Get off your pedestal.
> 
> The guides that I know that only run catch and release charters state this up front in either a contract form or on their website. The anglers go in knowing what they are doing. There is no hostility and these guides still have plenty of business.


Where are your home waters?


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## nautilott (Oct 29, 2017)

I guess this is what you guys are talking about using a wiffle bat. Seems a little unfair but I guess it gets the job done. Also, I was always taught to keep your damn hands out of the gills...especially if you intend to release. Don't really know how damaging the practice is, but sure don't like seeing it.

Edit; Well, I guess it was his first video using the cut up wiffle ball bat to chuck bait around the school of reds.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

SomaliPirate said:


> Last year I called FWC when I witnessed a guy pull up to the ramp, hustle a cooler from the boat to his truck, then return to his boat for more fishing. The officer who answered told me there was nothing she could do unless I witnessed a violation and hung up on me. Me being me, I immediately called back and asked to speak to a supervisor. I explained the situation, my professional background and provided a brief rundown on the concept of reasonable articulable suspicion regarding making a law enforcement stop. I don't know if anyone ever went to make contact with the guy, as I left for the day. I know wildlife officers are overworked, but I was definitely not happy with the way that was handled; the initial officer just didn't give a damn at all. I'll take ten people who care about the resource over 100 who are just getting a paycheck.


While you and I both believe that the guy likely went out and caught an additional limit, you cannot fault the FWC officer for not following up on a phone call that was basically "hey officer, this guy didnt break any laws, but..."
They're already strung too thin, so to chase down someone who hasnt broken any laws is probably never going to happen.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Where are your home waters?


Southwest Florida. Pine island and Chokoluskee.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

ifsteve said:


> That is factually incorrect and there have been tons of studies to prove it. Fish tend to take bait much deeper than they do so with artificials and especially flies.


Please explain. And who has done these studies?

You’re telling me that a fish hooked in the corner of the mouth (like 99% of all the fish I catch) is “more stressed” than a fish you catch because the hook originally had bait on it?

I’m not buying it. I’d be more inclined to say that fish that are taken out of the water, regardless of how they are caught, and posed for minutes on end in front of a camera for a “perfect picture” would be more stressed out than whatever it ate.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

KurtActual said:


> While you and I both believe that the guy likely went out and caught an additional limit, you cannot fault the FWC officer for not following up on a phone call that was basically "hey officer, this guy didnt break any laws, but..."
> They're already strung too thin, so to chase down someone who hasnt broken any laws is probably never going to happen.


Agreed, but she could have avoided talking to me like I was an idiot and hanging up on me. The man was behaving in a manner consistent with attempting to conceal illegally harvested wildlife and case law 100% supports a stop in that situation. As a cop I received calls for much much dumber things than that and I had the tact to at least pay lip service to the complaint.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Godzuki86 said:


> Please explain. And who has done these studies?
> 
> You’re telling me that a fish hooked in the corner of the mouth (like 99% of all the fish I catch) is “more stressed” than a fish you catch because the hook originally had bait on it?
> 
> I’m not buying it. I’d be more inclined to say that fish that are taken out of the water, regardless of how they are caught, and posed for minutes on end in front of a camera for a “perfect picture” would be more stressed out than whatever it ate.


Let's qualify the natural bait criteria. Natural bait and J hooks do result in a higher percentage of mortally hooked fish. Circle hooks -- not so much. I'm a 99.99% fly angler, and I've had fish hooked deeply enough on flies to be mortally injured. It's rare, but it happens. No angling discipline is 100% harmless to the fish.

There are a great many factors in the decline of the resource, and focusing on just one as being responsible for it all is neither realistic nor productive. It's too complex an issue. Again, fisheries managers attempt to calculate incidental mortalities into their projections to set realistic limits.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

hipshot said:


> Let's qualify the natural bait criteria. Natural bait and J hooks do result in a higher percentage of mortally hooked fish. Circle hooks -- not so much. I'm a 99.99% fly angler, and I've had fish hooked deeply enough on flies to be mortally injured. It's rare, but it happens. No angling discipline is 100% harmless to the fish.
> 
> There are a great many factors in the decline of the resource, and focusing on just one as being responsible for it all is neither realistic nor productive. It's too complex an issue. Again, fisheries managers attempt to calculate incidental mortalities into their projections to set realistic limits.


Texas will have closed seasons before it’s over then the meat haulers will sleep in the bed they made. 
Here’s a photo back when it was 10 speckled trout per person per day and no maximum slot. People can’t help themselves and this is a guide raping his home waters. They still do it today running multiple meat haul trips a day during summer chunking croaker and shrimp. Half a day to these guys is limiting on trout no matter 2 hours or 4. Greedy! There’s no sense in it at all but it was legal so I guess that makes it ok?


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## Breeze (Aug 7, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Texas will have closed seasons before it’s over then the meat haulers will sleep in the bed they made.
> Here’s a photo back when it was 10 speckled trout per person per day and no maximum slot. People can’t help themselves and this is a guide raping his home waters. They still do it today running multiple meat haul trips a day during summer chunking croaker and shrimp. Half a day to these guys is limiting on trout no matter 2 hours or 4. Greedy! There’s no sense in it at all but it was legal so I guess that makes it ok?
> View attachment 50146


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## Breeze (Aug 7, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Texas will have closed seasons before it’s over then the meat haulers will sleep in the bed they made.
> Here’s a photo back when it was 10 speckled trout per person per day and no maximum slot. People can’t help themselves and this is a guide raping his home waters. They still do it today running multiple meat haul trips a day during summer chunking croaker and shrimp. Half a day to these guys is limiting on trout no matter 2 hours or 4. Greedy! There’s no sense in it at all but it was legal so I guess that makes it ok?
> View attachment 50146


That’s a bad deal. Some really impressive fish


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

R&G out of Matagorda Marina posts a ton of pics like that @Smackdaddy53 
They run 4-5 boats with 2+ trips per boat.

If punishment isnt the answer, is rewards? Like an empty stringer guide reward program?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

KurtActual said:


> R&G out of Matagorda Marina posts a ton of pics like that @Smackdaddy53
> They run 4-5 boats with 2+ trips per boat.
> 
> If punishment isnt the answer, is rewards? Like an empty stringer guide reward program?


I wasn’t going to call them out but yeah that’s them. They are great fishermen but the crap they and others pull is irresponsible.


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## Shadowcast16 (Mar 5, 2017)

I am 99% catch and release! I love to fish but don't even like seafood! If I choose to keep a couple Reds a year for my brother to have blackened Redfish that is my business!!! I am also a live bait spin caster too.. The problem is the meat haulers keeping everything that is legal just to keep it. That drives me crazy!!! Take what you will eat without freezing it and let the rest go. I enjoy letting trophy fish go because I know someone else or myself will get to experience that same fish again later.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

You know, back when TPWD was contemplating extending the five fish limit on specks up the coast, the majority of the anglers on another forum supported the idea. There were a few, however, who felt that the reduced limits should apply only to anglers who live on the coast. One in particular insisted that he was entitled to a limit every day, and since he lived a long way from the coast, and was able to fish just a few times a year, the limits shouldn't apply to him. A lot of people think that way........


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

hipshot said:


> You know, back when TPWD was contemplating extending the five fish limit on specks up the coast, the majority of the anglers on another forum supported the idea. There were a few, however, who felt that the reduced limits should apply only to anglers who live on the coast. One in particular insisted that he was entitled to a limit every day, and since he lived a long way from the coast, and was able to fish just a few times a year, the limits shouldn't apply to him. A lot of people think that way........


Sounds like he should learn to catch catfish and crappie...


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Texas will have closed seasons before it’s over then the meat haulers will sleep in the bed they made.
> Here’s a photo back when it was 10 speckled trout per person per day and no maximum slot. People can’t help themselves and this is a guide raping his home waters. They still do it today running multiple meat haul trips a day during summer chunking croaker and shrimp. Half a day to these guys is limiting on trout no matter 2 hours or 4. Greedy! There’s no sense in it at all but it was legal so I guess that makes it ok?
> View attachment 50146


Look at all the dead baby makers pretty sad.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

I fly fish, fish artificials and fish live/dead bait. There is a time for each and every one. When I was chasing my first Bonefish I predominately used live shrimp and I didn’t catch squat. Switched to fly and started catching them, no longer waste money on shrimp anymore. I’ve also had days where you can pluck reds out with an artificial on every cast more effectively than dead bait. I’ve been skunked on live/dead bait and come back to the ramp to see someone caught a bunch on fly. I wills say that with circle hooks nowadays fish are less harmed then a fish hooked with treble hook and probably the same as fly. I’ve only gut hooked one fish in the past couple of years with a circle. They are very effective at hooking fish in the corner of the mouth. A great advancement that’s made a huge difference.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

nativejax said:


> I plainly state on my website and let all my clients know I am catch and release only and if they would like to keep fish I am happy to reccommend another guide. I'm not an @ss about it but want to make sure my anglers understand what they are getting and I tell them why. A little communication goes a very long way when booking as well as when on the water.


I too have been a catch and release outfitter since day 1. It is on our web site and we let every angler know at the time of their booking. This policy is in no way a deterrent to business. I also believe that anglers who spend 8 hours in a boat with any guide on my staff will become far more educated on the local ecosystems and the benefits of catch and release fishing. As for the photos, a minor trade off when the fish ends the encounter back in the water. Our guides take countless photos in a season and we rarely have a fish out of the water for more than a few seconds. 

Ken


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Ken T said:


> I too have been a catch and release outfitter since day 1. It is on our web site and we let every angler know at the time of their booking. This policy is in no way a deterrent to business. I also believe that anglers who spend 8 hours in a boat with any guide on my staff will become far more educated on the local ecosystems and the benefits of catch and release fishing. As for the photos, a minor trade off when the fish ends the encounter back in the water. Our guides take countless photos in a season and we rarely have a fish out of the water for more than a few seconds.
> 
> Ken


You, nativejax and all the other catch and release and even keep just a couple of select fish for dinner are what it should be about. Thank you!


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

Education is the answer, it always is/was. It's just not easy. Look at south Florida sailfish tournaments... 30 years ago there would be 50 dead sails on the dock. Now if you guthook one and it bleeds out (complete accident) you STILL get the shame fingers from everyone. Guides need to start hanging redfish,tarpon and bonefish flags from the push pole!!!


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

"Guides need to start hanging redfish,tarpon and bonefish flags from the push pole!!!"

I wanna hang a bonefish flag from my pushpole in Matagorda Bay.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

A lot of states have limited entry on “outfitters”, but in Florida anyone can get a guides license. I think it would be good for the guide industry and the fishery to look at a limiting the number of guide licenses that are issued in the state.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Steve_Mevers said:


> A lot of states have limited entry on “outfitters”, but in Florida anyone can get a guides license. I think it would be good for the guide industry and the fishery to look at a limiting the number of guide licenses that are issued in the state.


And limit fishing tournaments. It’s ridiculous down here.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> And limit fishing tournaments. It’s ridiculous down here.


At least make them catch, measure, release some how. You’d think with all the tech we have these days this would be easy!


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

How about if they start by enforcing the rules and regulations we already have... I can't tell you how many times we come back to the dock (and we are just recreational fishermen) and there are goons at the dock cleaning tables fileting illegal size and numbers of fish.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Steve... I'm puzzled about that "guide's license" you refer to... I have three different licenses (and have for just about 23 years at present).

My first license was from the Coast Guard - the license to carry passengers for hire (the CG doesn't care whether any of my passengers ever catch a single fish -but they really, really care that I'm operating safely). That license has to be renewed every five years - and requires a physical each time - and I have to belong to a random drug testing regime that meets the CG's standards... 

My second "license" is my permit to operate in Everglades National Park - won't bore you with all the ins and outs that involves - or the daily and yearly catch reports (plus an annual "how much revenue did you generate"? report). 

Lastly is my actual fishing license that allows up to four anglers to fish with me (that's never going to happen since the most I can possibly have on board is three anglers -and that's stretching a point on a 17' skiff...) without any of them ever needing a license. That's an annual license that costs a bit over $200 per year. You can choose how it's set up - for a specific vessel - or just for the captain (so I can step on anyone else's vessel and the anglers are under my license). In the Park I'm rarely ever even asked to produce it - but it is part of the requirement for that Park permit that I've already mentioned. To get this last license you have to have a business license, a captain's license, etc. If they ended this particular license program and every visiting angler had to have their own license it would surely bring a bit more money to the state - but definitely reduce the income for all that guide for a living...

Other than what I've cited above - there is no "guide's license" here in Florida - and I can't say I'd ever advocate for one. Guides come and go - today he's a fishing guide - tomorrow he's an ........ fill in the blanks. Although I've only been full time now for 23 years - I might just be the longest "man still standing" down at Flamingo. I don't think that's a long time and I can't tell you how many I've known that left guiding (for every reason under the sun... not counting mortality - and there's a fair number of those as well).

Every now and then I hear someone talk about limiting the number of guide licenses somewhere... Usually that's from some group that sees a real economic advantage in doing just that... I consider that a form of restraint of trade and figure that one side of the political spectrum would be all for that... To me, that sort of stuff is right up there with restrictions on whether an angler can use bait or not - or whether live chumming should be allowed, etc. All for the benefit of the few who are certainly skilled enough to do without bait in any form... My usual response to that is to simply ask "what about the father and son who want to catch a fish to take home - or to brag about, or to just be out in the great outdoors"? Those are the folks we ought to be caring about...

By the way with the current level of fishing restrictions here in Florida I don't see how a single angler could hardly bring home enough fish to feed more than a family of four... at least not with inshore species... I know that other states are pretty much where my state was years ago... I also knew one or two way back when - that actually bought houses (small ones) down in the keys - on "fish money"... That hasn't been possible now for more than 30 years here in Florida... and thank heavens.. The combination of reasonable conservation measures combined with serious habitat restoration will mean good fishing for all of us in the future.. Without it I don't see any good outcomes at all - not any where...


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

lemaymiami said:


> Steve... I'm puzzled about that "guide's license" you refer to... I have three different licenses (and have for just about 23 years at present).
> 
> My first license was from the Coast Guard - the license to carry passengers for hire (the CG doesn't care whether any of my passengers ever catch a single fish -but they really, really care that I'm operating safely). That license has to be renewed every five years - and requires a physical each time - and I have to belong to a random drug testing regime that meets the CG's standards...
> 
> ...


Bob, I agree with what you stated and I also used to guide and understand the licensing process for operating a charter fishing business. The license I was referring to was the State of Florida fishing license to take paying passengers fishing. As you know, the law as written requires any person who is paid a fee to take someone fishing must have at least a 4pk license, a guide cannot ask a client to just buy a individual recreational license, the guide must have the license, and I loosely called that a guides license. I worked with a lot with other states that have limited entry for guides or outfitters. The guides in those states place a high value on the license which in turn increased the professional manner in which they operated their bussiness. I also remember when there was no fishing licenses in Florida, not even for commercial fishermen. Everybody and their brother were making boat payments, and paying for vacation rentals by selling dolphin, grouper, snapper, mullet., etc... The SPL license was created and then a restricticed species endorsement was established and it pretty much put a stop to the weekend warriors legally and openly selling fish (yep, there is still a lot of backdoor sales, but it has slowed significantly from what it used to be). I am for everybody making a living, but I think the concept of limiting how many recreational guide fishing licenses are issued in the state is worth exploring with substantial input from guides associations and other stakeholders to see if it would be a benefit for the citizens, professional guides and the resource, if not then continue with the current requirements. And I couldn’t agree with you more on habitat resotration as being the number one issue that needs to be addressed in Florida. Thanks for all your input to the forum, tight lines.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2018)

krash said:


> How about if they start by enforcing the rules and regulations we already have... I can't tell you how many times we come back to the dock (and we are just recreational fishermen) and there are goons at the dock cleaning tables fileting illegal size and numbers of fish.


I would imagine that you might have access to a TIP hotline? [turn in poachers]


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2018)

prinjm6 said:


> I tell my clients catch and release only and explain why. I dont guide for the money or depend on it for my livelihood either.


I agre totally. I usually remind my guests that every fish is a "business partner" of mine.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

MatthewAbbott said:


> I do wish more guides would push for CPR than keeping fish. I think there is a lot of people who take guided trips who get fish pushed on them. It happens.
> 
> As far as GWs go I agree. I’ve seen to many people cast netting down a jetty or creek putting everything they catch in a 5 gallon bucket. It’s sickening. Don’t even get me started on worthless crabbers who keep everything in a pot from whole stone crabs to flounder. They just open it up and dump it in the boat.


I had a trip on the outer banks once I just wanted to throw a fly at some false albacore. My wife and I are total fish hippies, we will tell a guide before we go we are not OK with keeping any fish or shooting sharks or any of that crap. This guy after each fish was like Are you sure you don't want to keep this one? Each time, then we get out over a reef after we got done chasing the albacore and we pull some black bass up from the wreck and he takes a rod and throws it in and brings some in and keeps them. 

Needless to say he didn't get a tip and we won't be fishing with him. But he would not let it go, and Im a real asshole in person! So the faint of heart probably would have kept each one.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Drifter said:


> I had a trip on the outer banks once I just wanted to throw a fly at some false albacore. My wife and I are total fish hippies, we will tell a guide before we go we are not OK with keeping any fish or shooting sharks or any of that crap. This guy after each fish was like Are you sure you don't want to keep this one? Each time, then we get out over a reef after we got done chasing the albacore and we pull some black bass up from the wreck and he takes a rod and throws it in and brings some in and keeps them.
> 
> Needless to say he didn't get a tip and we won't be fishing with him. But he would not let it go, and Im a real asshole in person! So the faint of heart probably would have kept each one.


That’s the difference in clients. Some are just tagging along doing whatever everyone else does and some actually bring their own gear, know how to fish and have their own ideas about what they want out of a trip. There are many other types but these are the ones we are discussing so...
Some guides have enough repeat customers that they only take new customers if they feel like it. Some guides are trying to make a living out of it and grind out whatever clients they can get. Some are just part timers so they can be a little more laid back about it and select their clients as well because it’s not all about making money but for the experience. 
Sounds like you should come sight cast or wade with me if you come to Texas.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> That’s the difference in clients. Some are just tagging along doing whatever everyone else does and some actually bring their own gear, know how to fish and have their own ideas about what they want out of a trip. There are many other types but these are the ones we are discussing so...
> Some guides have enough repeat customers that they only take new customers if they feel like it. Some guides are trying to make a living out of it and grind out whatever clients they can get. Some are just part timers so they can be a little more laid back about it and select their clients as well because it’s not all about making money but for the experience.
> Sounds like you should come sight cast or wade with me if you come to Texas.


Where would one fly into for that? Whats the best time of year there?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Drifter said:


> Where would one fly into for that? Whats the best time of year there?


That depends on what you want to catch and how you want to fish for them. I am artificial only unless you want to catch gafftop and hardheads . I love to pole and sight cast trout, redfish, black drum, sheepshead etc. but also wade for trophy trout mainly in winter. I Houston is a couple of hours drive to my most frequent areas. I’ve been fishing around here since I was a kid but just recently got my license so I can charge.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

I fly fish, so sight fishing all the way. I like to just pole around the shallows all day lookin for fish. pm me your info and Ill hit you up if I come that way.


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