# 2009 Yamaha 25hp 2 cylinder 2-stroke running lean and burning plugs on top cylinder, help appreciate



## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Motor starts on first crank, runs like the day it was new. Had a friend use it and cleaned the carbs, has 2 carburetors, model is 25ESH. Well, as long as im cruising at low speeds it runs and idles great but when i go full throttle it may go for 2 minutes or 10 minutes but will eventually lose power. My top cylinder is cutting off, it doesn't immediately die and i can unplug the top spark plug and nothing changes, if i unplug the bottom plug wire it dies. My issues is obviously in the top cylinder. Also it's burning the spark pkug, i have to replace it and then it fires right up like nithing happened! If i go wide open it repeats. While my friend had it it cleaned the fuel tank, changed the bulb, and accidentally broke my pilot screw on the lower carb. I replaced both with the older style air/fuel screws or pilot screws as Yamaha refers to them. I put in the older style screws and new springs and set them to spec. Before i replaced them i had issues with it not idling and dying. Now it idles great but now can't run at full throttle and the burnt plugs are tan, whiteish in color and all indications point to my top cylinder burning plugs because it's running too lean. My concern is that the replacement screws are slightly different but I've read many on this forum who had the same issue and replaced, recommended to replace with older style because they're easier to adjust and may look different they function the same. Several members responded and also were pleased after replacing theirs as well. I just can't understand the motor running lean now after changing these screws and setting to spec, obviously it's starving for fuel. Any possible easy fixes or advice? Going to go into the carbs again soon to verify nothing clogged, my fuel tank is vented, no leaks, filter under cowl clean, and just curious if anyone has had similar issues and what was causing the problem? Any help is appreciated!


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2019)

Ok, it’s not the idle/pilot screws unless it fell out. You need to check for an air/vacuum leak on that cyl. If it’s not sucking air then I’d go into the carbs again.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Careful running that thing that hard if it's leaning out, you can burn a piston. 

After you try and determine if there's a vacuum leak, think about swapping the screws/jets from the top and bottom carb to try and pinpoint if that's the issue like you're suspecting it is. 

I have located vacuum leaks in the past spraying carb cleaner around vacuum lines until a motor(truck) smoothed out, but that may be difficult while running hard like you're describing. Also looking back on it now, it may not be the safest thing but it'll definitely help locate one.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

First of all you need to verify you're getting a good hot spark on that top cylinder. Second you need to quit running that motor lean because if the plugs look like that there's a change you've already damaged the motor. Check compression. If that checks out you need to figure out why you're not getting fuel. It's pretty likely you have a float valve problem if only one cylinder looks lean.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

I had a yamaha 30 , One of the two carburetor jet needles would turn green and ,needed to be sanded for no better term , it would not seat correctly. Good luck


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## Finsleft258 (Oct 7, 2018)

Boatbrains said:


> Ok, it’s not the idle/pilot screws unless it fell out. You need to check for an air/vacuum leak on that cyl. If it’s not sucking air then I’d go into the carbs again.


^^^ Check for lean condition. Because the carbs were recently cleaned, I would check the intake/reed block/carb mating surface for failed seal. Easiest way is to fire it up and hit those spots with an aerosol like starting ether or brake clean. Do NOT spray the intake throat of the carb. You are spraying the interfaces and mixture screws. If there is a change in RPMs, you've found the problem.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Wow, you guys responded with a lot of good info much faster than i anticipated lol. I do thank each one of you for your responses. And not running it until i am able to figure it out and find the cause of my problem then have that fixed. I am getting the compression checked soon and also those carburetors are coming back out before it hits the water again! I've had a bad experience with an engine running lean, my 5.7 Supercharged Tundra had a bad fuel injector and leaned out one cylinder, when it burned up that piston and it siezed it was like a chain reaction and snapped 5 out of 8 rods sending them through both sides of the block, top, and oil pan! Just from a clogged injector i grenaded block and needed to replace the entire longblock assembly. So i do not want to push my luck on this little engine regardless of the price to replace a powerhead or cylinder. @Boatbrains, As far as vacuum leaks, where would or how would i diagnose this with basic tools if it's possible? When you say vacuum leak are you meaning air getting into a part of the fuel system like around the pilot screws, component of the carburetor that may not be completely sealed thus creating a "vent like" condition thats not allowing it to pull fuel into the combustion chamber because the air tight, vacuum of the fuel system is not sealed but broken by a possible leak? Instead of it getting the fuel to the combustion chamber the vacuum affect may be distrupted in the fuel delivery and instead of fuel getting in unrestricted that air is leaking into the fuel system and leaning out that cylinder causing this? Obviously im not a very skilled mechanic and understand just the basics on this engine type. I've honestly never gone through these carbs myself. The only carburetor ive ever opened was on a 4-stroke Yamaha YFZ450 ATV. My buddy who used the boat last is a auto mechanic and went through the carbs and that's who informed me of the broken pilot screw but i have been hesitant to start pulling the carbs apart again because of my own lack of knowledge, experience, or just familiarity with this dual carb system and the fact that its a 2-stroke. Everyone i know with some experience in working on these types of motors or just engines in general keep telling me how simple these carbs are and how easy it is to pull out, apart, and atleast look at or clean. I just know that with my luck ill end up having a tiny spring fly out while im poking around and spend the next 5 hours trying to figure out where it came from, thats my luck typically when going into something like this. Im sure my fears are unfounded and it won't be quite as complicated as i think it will be but have been hesitant. Plus I'd rather learn and avoid paying a marine mechanic $100+/hr to do what i can. It has to be done regardless now, i pulled my fuel tank and checked for water and trash/debris, after getting it all out and getting the debris out, thoroughly cleaning the inside of the tank, installed a water seporator between the bulb and engine, i let the bucket with the debris and minor amount of water settle for a little while. When i went to siphon that gas from one bucket to the other i noticed the gas was "cloudy or milky" and just stopped there, was not putting cloudy gas back in after all of that. So i poured it back into the bucket with the trash and debris and sealed it to set up overnight. Well i found it to be cleared up the next day and the reason it was cloudy was water or a foreign liquid/substance wasn't separating completely because of how i was dumping buckets into buckets and the gas was just being splashed around and sloshing around, unable to fully settle for long enough to allow the water to settle at the bottom separately from the gasoline. It turns out there was probably two tablespoons or more of water in the bottom of the bucket along with plenty of small particles big enough to clog a jet. Also found small debris in feul filter screen inside of the cowlin a few days ago that was kind of concerning. That's why i added the inline filter/water separator. My fuel tank is a custom aluminum 14 gallon tank mounted at the front of the boat just behind the dry storage and people tell me if not vented the tank will sweat and moisture will get in. How did this debris get in, i have no clue. The boat is a custom, all aluminum 18' skiff that originally had a plastic fuel tank that was easier to manage but adding this aluminum tank is just a lot nicer but more trouble keeping foreign objects and liquids from accumulating in the tank. This may not be my cause but it certainly doesnt help after seeing what was in there. 
@jimsmicro, in response about getting a spark, i can verify it is getting a spark. Enough to deliver a painful shock! I cannot confirm there is no interruption in the spark during operation, if my coil is going bad or CDI unit is failing but yes it is getting fire to both plugs. Now if there's a faulty coil, unfortunately i have not tried to swap coil wires, plug wires to see if it would replicate the issue on the bottom cylinder. I regret not trying that after soneone asked if i tried that out. Sadly it was overlooked when trying to diagnose the problem on the water.
@LowHydrogen, when you talk about vacuum lines do you know where they are on this outboard and are u sure i have "vacuum lines" on this particular engine? Only asking because with your comment about your previous issue with vacuum lines on a truck, when i hear that i automatically think of vacuum lines that are part of the air intake system on a car or truck engine. Similar to what connects to the air filter box and/or near the mass airflow sensor as well as a few others under the hood. That the type vacuum line in the sense I'm familiar with but knowing the two engine types are so much different and my lack of knowledge with 2-strokes in general i wasn't aware of the vacuum lines or their locations. Without laughing at me, i actually asked a friend about changing my engine oil on this motor, he laughed and told me thats the whole reason i am mixing oil into my gasoline, there is no actual engine oil solely for lubricating purposes like with a 4-stroke engine. I guess with this engine application im sadly like those guys that wouldn't understand that a diesel engine doesn't have spark plugs or why they don't have them lol. It was kind of a facepalm moment for me. 
Again, thank you fellas for all of your feedback. I do hope to close this thread eventually with some good news once taking this info and locating the root cause of my problem. All info is helpful and useful, i appreciate it!


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2019)

By vacuum leak, I mean it is pulling air in somewhere other than through the venturi of the carb. As mentioned by a few, you can test this with some spray carb and choke cleaner, brake clean, etc.. by starting the motor amd spraying just a little on areas like... carb base flange, intake to block mating surface, etc... if it is pulling in air then it will pull in the spray and rpms will change. There are most likely some recirc lines on that motor that some would call vacuum lines. If one is off, it would cause the same issues and be a vacuum leak.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Few photos of plugs, brand new. After top cylinder stopped running this is how they look, they are burned. Tried to sand them a little but still did not work once they looked this way. Notice minor differences between the top and bottom plugs and the ones circled came from top cylinder. I got conflicting feedback, one guy said they're fouled, running rich. Two guys say there's nothing wrong with them, i understand they don't really look bad but they will not work, fire. Once replaced with a new plug (correct plugs per manufacturer specs and gapped to manufacturers specs) 
Also the pictures of slight difference in two types of pilot screws, between tip and thread the tapered part of older style, replacement screws is slightly longer than factory type. Just about everyone familiar with these or this motor says it is not my problem and these screws are fine for this engine, this cannot be the cause of the problem, and several others that have swapped to these on same outboard have no issues, all were happy with the results. I did want to add the photo to atleast show the difference between the two. 
And last two pics just for fun. Was messing with motor and sun set on me a a week ago, ran back to ramp in the dark with my headlight and saw something on the bank from about 100 yards away. A very familiar sight in south Louisiana


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Boatbrains said:


> By vacuum leak, I mean it is pulling air in somewhere other than through the venturi of the carb. As mentioned by a few, you can test this with some spray carb and choke cleaner, brake clean, etc.. by starting the motor amd spraying just a little on areas like... carb base flange, intake to block mating surface, etc... if it is pulling in air then it will pull in the spray and rpms will change. There are most likely some recirc lines on that motor that some would call vacuum lines. If one is off, it would cause the same issues and be a vacuum leak.


I gotcha, thanks! Ill pick some up and give it a try. That's what i thought you were saying but wasn't completely sure and am a newcomer to troubleshooting outboard engine issues, i appreciate the advice! *will probably use carburetor cleaner, im just guessing if i make sure not to get any into intake and ther is a vacuum leak that stuff will probably cause RPMs to raise. Just my guess


Boatbrains said:


> By vacuum leak, I mean it is pulling air in somewhere other than through the venturi of the carb. As mentioned by a few, you can test this with some spray carb and choke cleaner, brake clean, etc.. by starting the motor amd spraying just a little on areas like... carb base flange, intake to block mating surface, etc... if it is pulling in air then it will pull in the spray and rpms will change. There are most likely some recirc lines on that motor that some would call vacuum lines. If one is off, it would cause the same issues and be a vacuum leak.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2019)

Alright, that is definitely lean! Here is my take on it... because she is runnin lean on that hole it is also running much hotter “burning a piston hotter” this is most likely causing the spark plug to get too hot and probably cracking the ceramic internally causing your spark to go straight to ground.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2019)

Just throw a few lbs of them frog legs in a bag on some dry ice and ship them to Homosassa Florida! If you get a big enough box you can toss some mud bugs in there too!


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2019)

By the way, that plug looks like virtually no fuel is getting in there. I am almost willing to bet the carb bowl is not getting much/any fuel in it. I would be pullin those carbs again and checking float height and everything else while I was at it!


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2019)

Plug on the right looks a little lean too!


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## Finsleft258 (Oct 7, 2018)

In one pic the plug looks wet. Is it fuel or water? If water is getting in there, it will steam clean the insulator just like that.


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## Finsleft258 (Oct 7, 2018)

If that plug is getting wet, check the head for a pinhole (you'll have to pull it) and check part #28....https://www.boats.net/catalog/yamah...-and-later/25hp/25elh-0409/cylinder-crankcase


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I just wanna know how you got a 2009 Yamaha 2 stroke.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> By vacuum leak, I mean it is pulling air in somewhere other than through the venturi of the carb. As mentioned by a few, you can test this with some spray carb and choke cleaner, brake clean, etc.. by starting the motor amd spraying just a little on areas like... carb base flange, intake to block mating surface, etc... if it is pulling in air then it will pull in the spray and rpms will change. There are most likely some recirc lines on that motor that some would call vacuum lines. If one is off, it would cause the same issues and be a vacuum leak.


@Headeache2stroke in your novel  you asked me a question about vacuum leaks, @Boatbrains covered everything I would have said and more about vacuum leaks in this ^ post. 

@Boatbrains on that model motor can he pull a drain screw out of the bowl and pump on the primer bulb to see if he's getting fuel through the needle and seat properly? 

I had a motor once that got a leak in the float, it would fill up with fuel and then sink closing the needle valve stopping fuel feed. Just something else to throw out there.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2019)

LowHydrogen said:


> @Headeache2stroke in your novel  you asked me a question about vacuum leaks, @Boatbrains covered everything I would have said and more about vacuum leaks in this ^ post.
> 
> @Boatbrains on that model motor can he pull a drain screw out of the bowl and pump on the primer bulb to see if he's getting fuel through the needle and seat properly?
> 
> I had a motor once that got a leak in the float, it would fill up with fuel and then sink closing the needle valve stopping fuel feed. Just something else to throw out there.


I believe he can, but from the looks of the plugs I think he needs to go back into the carbs myself. Looks like he has more than one hole runnin lean to me.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

devrep said:


> I just wanna know how you got a 2009 Yamaha 2 stroke.


I purchased the boat/motor/trailer from my step-dad who was using it for crawfishing. He only used it for two seasons and it wasn't being used, got a great deal on it. When he purchased a setup it was just boat and trailer and this was in 2010. Most crawfishermen prefer the lighter 2-strokes to crawfish with for weight, easier or less complicated parts, cheaper, and simplicity. This outboard was in the crate leftover from 2009 but was a brand new, zero hour motor. There were only 2 left at the particular dealer he purchased it from. The sicker on the side says it was manufactured in i think 11/09 and the model is 25ESH so i can assure you that it is a 2009 and heard they didn't really produce a lot of them because demand was lower than the newer 4-stroke 25hp outboards. They simply weren't selling any hardly. I think the entire motor with all parts weighs 77lbs if im not mistaken. When it's running right its a little beast too, it pushes my 18' all aluminum skiff with two batteries, basic stuff in the dry storage, spare prop, 14 gallons of gas, and me at 31mph according to my GPS. It feels faster than that lol. I heard someone claim they made a few 2010's just like it but have not spoke to anyone who has one nor seen a 2010. Most of these are between 2006 and 2008 is when they made the majority, with Yamalube mix in fuel they actually call for a 100 to 1 mixture which surprises many as being such a lean mix. But the book calls for 50 to 1 during break in and Yamalube 100 to 1. If using any other outboard/2 cycle oil like "quicksilver" then 50 to 1 is best. EPA regulations saw these fade out quickly even as a fairly efficient burning 2-stroke. 
* found a photo, actually was built very late in 2009 and let me correct myself. This engine was actually purchased new in the crate in 2011, spring of 2011 as the last on 2 new Yamaha 25hp, electric start, short shaft, tiller handle engines. What else in a 2-stroke was available at the time i do not know. Most sizes were phased out by this time, i know most bigger Yamaha's were already phased out by 2009 model year.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Boatbrains said:


> Alright, that is definitely lean! Here is my take on it... because she is runnin lean on that hole it is also running much hotter “burning a piston hotter” this is most likely causing the spark plug to get too hot and probably cracking the ceramic internally causing your spark to go straight to ground.


I'm waiting on my buddy to get his guages back for the compression check. Are you insinuating that i have likely already burnt a piston or are you warning that continued running with fixing will surely result in hurting the motor, losing a piston? Not 100% sure that it isn't already hurt, just how bad it's hurt or if it is hurt i do not yet know. It will still fire with new plugs and run like the day it was new but I'm obviously not going to do that until it's fixed, it has the same power output as always. Before it is back in the water I'm going through carbs (today if i have time), they're out waiting on me. I will get compression checked also. Last time it ran it ran very strong, not saying the rings aren't burnt or the top end is in great shape, i am not sure if it was expelling metal through exhaust every time i gave it the juice lol. I just know there were no indications other than burning the plugs from running lean. I didn't put much fuel through it once the lean conditions were found by visibly checking plugs and knowing the danger of running it lean. So are you thinking that my piston may already be cooked? Just curious, not like im going to be trying to quote you or prove otherwise im just asking your person opinion but i do hope the motor isn't already damaged beyond major repair. I do know with continued running even at low RPMs it would almost certainly lose that top piston.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Finsleft258 said:


> In one pic the plug looks wet. Is it fuel or water? If water is getting in there, it will steam clean the insulator just like that.


Probably water just to be honest. I had the fuel tank unmounted, pulled out Sunday to completely empty and clean. I did find trash/debris in the gas tank as well as water! Maybe 1.5fl oz of water is my estimate. I installed an inline fuel filter/water separator the same day. That was already in the plans regardless of what was in the tank. I picked up very small debris particles in the screen or factory filter under the cowl a week ago and didn't feel confident about my tank being cleaned thoroughly. I discovered much more debris and water than i thought would be inside, now until i pull these carbs apart, currently are out and as soon as i got time to go into them i will. Not just top obviously going into both, i do think both have trash in them. I do think its likely that the top may be in worse shape than the lower carb but probably will find something in both. Just praying i do find the source of this problem and am able to fix it. More importantly hoping there's no damage already done to it from it running like this. I know the harm of running an engine too lean!


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2019)

Headeache2stroke said:


> I'm waiting on my buddy to get his guages back for the compression check. Are you insinuating that i have likely already burnt a piston or are you warning that continued running with fixing will surely result in hurting the motor, losing a piston? Not 100% sure that it isn't already hurt, just how bad it's hurt or if it is hurt i do not yet know. It will still fire with new plugs and run like the day it was new but I'm obviously not going to do that until it's fixed, it has the same power output as always. Before it is back in the water I'm going through carbs (today if i have time), they're out waiting on me. I will get compression checked also. Last time it ran it ran very strong, not saying the rings aren't burnt or the top end is in great shape, i am not sure if it was expelling metal through exhaust every time i gave it the juice lol. I just know there were no indications other than burning the plugs from running lean. I didn't put much fuel through it once the lean conditions were found by visibly checking plugs and knowing the danger of running it lean. So are you thinking that my piston may already be cooked? Just curious, not like im going to be trying to quote you or prove otherwise im just asking your person opinion but i do hope the motor isn't already damaged beyond major repair. I do know with continued running even at low RPMs it would almost certainly lose that top piston.


Just if you keep running it you will damage. I would never say a motor is toast from what you’ve shown. If the plug had metal on it then maybe but not from what I see. You are probably fine, just need to get fixed.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2019)

Headeache2stroke said:


> I'm waiting on my buddy to get his guages back for the compression check. Are you insinuating that i have likely already burnt a piston or are you warning that continued running with fixing will surely result in hurting the motor, losing a piston? Not 100% sure that it isn't already hurt, just how bad it's hurt or if it is hurt i do not yet know. It will still fire with new plugs and run like the day it was new but I'm obviously not going to do that until it's fixed, it has the same power output as always. Before it is back in the water I'm going through carbs (today if i have time), they're out waiting on me. I will get compression checked also. Last time it ran it ran very strong, not saying the rings aren't burnt or the top end is in great shape, i am not sure if it was expelling metal through exhaust every time i gave it the juice lol. I just know there were no indications other than burning the plugs from running lean. I didn't put much fuel through it once the lean conditions were found by visibly checking plugs and knowing the danger of running it lean. So are you thinking that my piston may already be cooked? Just curious, not like im going to be trying to quote you or prove otherwise im just asking your person opinion but i do hope the motor isn't already damaged beyond major repair. I do know with continued running even at low RPMs it would almost certainly lose that top piston.


Just if you keep running it you will damage. I would never say a motor is toast from what you’ve shown. If the plug had metal on it then maybe but not from what I see. You are probably fine, just need to get fixed.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks, @Boatbrains tried to reply directly to you and got an error message. Not sure why, was just joking around about sending you some fresh Louisiana seafood for all of you help. Lol


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

I'm about to do some minor research on these particular carbs and open them up. Hopefully will find debris or water in bowls, will take pictures to post if i do or do not. Thanks!


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Trying to find out a good place to order the carb kit. The few places i have searched doesn't specify if the kit is for both/dual carbs or just a single and the price to me seems a bit high for one. If i knew it was for both at around 40 bucks then I'd just order it, have it to replace all the gaskets and replaceable parts or rubber and soft parts. I figured i might as well if i have them out, and about to clean things up. Suggestions on a good place to buy the "carb kits?" Thanks!


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

that's awesome, most of the yammie 2 strokes stopped coming in to the USSR. I mean USA after 2007.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2019)

Headeache2stroke said:


> Thanks, @Boatbrains tried to reply directly to you and got an error message. Not sure why, was just joking around about sending you some fresh Louisiana seafood for all of you help. Lol
> View attachment 69006


Most of the carb kits are for individual carbs.
Try boats.net for your parts.

Never, under any circumstances kid about sendin me seafood!!!
Now that we understand... Mudbugs, frog legs, shrimp, crab, and fillets are acceptable forms of payment!


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## DONAGHUE (Nov 18, 2017)

If the main jet has a restriction it would cause a lean hole.. the idle jet usually is the one to plug first but I have seen it on my 30 2 stroke cylinder... motor out of nowhere ran like shit yet idled fine... main ended up having a small piece of trash halfway restricting the main... I'm sure if I had kept running her she would have shown a lean plug...


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Well I've yet to try it, i have to clean up inside the cowl, bigtime! Long story short, got this boat/motor/trailer from step dad. He forgot to latch cowl, hit log and cowl popped off, sunk! Thought it would be cheap to replace and just left, ran for over 2 months without a cover, water dropped in the bayou later and found old cowl that had gouges from other boat props, he slapped some fiberglass on it an went back at it. It had a lot of trash inside. I, being new to this just learned theres no air intake filter on these. Well no air intake filter and rotted leaves, sticks inside cowl has caused my engine to aparently suck up trash through the air. Found rather large chunks of old debris in otherwise spotless carbs! That plus the trash in fuel tank, the water in tank, and this debris hopefully resolves the issues. Going to re-install carbs tomorrow, take to carwash, seal up from water getting into carbs and pressure wash underneath the powerhead! Now, atleast my water, debris in fuel should be resolved and soon will make my intake breath in air that has no trash in it. Almost considered making an air filter or just a screen of sorts to keep big trash like i found "mostly in top carb, problematic carb" today. We shall see! Here are a few snapshots of what was mostly in the main jet but both had trash in them. Hope this was the cause of my lean running motor. Still haven't done the compression check but will soon.
And maybe this summer I'll send everyone some froglegs if my little boat is back at it tomorrow or doesn't cost an arm and a leg to fix it. Too bad we are in the very beginning of the first month of the closed frogging season that's open 10 out of 12 months a year lol. June-March and closed April and May, no kidding, gotta let them spawn.
* an 8mm socket on nut driver for scale sizing. Not really necessary but was pretty shocked at the size of the debris, looks like rat turds almost. Did i mention we have plenty nutria rats here lol, also delicious. There's a bounty program to eradicate the invasive species, LADWF pays us ********* $5 per tail we turn in. They are vegetarians and have pretty white meat like a rabbit almost. Fun to hunt!


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

@DONAGHUE my carb issues weren't likely from gunk or anything from running often without cleaning them but from something else because they were cleaned recently but had to have something get in there causing a pretty serious restriction to burn plugs and rob fuel in the manner it was. I truly hope the debris that was in the main jet of my problematic top carb is what was causing this. As seen in photos there was big chunks of what i originally thought was rubber particles but further inspection showed it was from the cover being off for a long time under a tree and all of the sticks and leaves fetting in there and accumulated at the bottom. This debris wasn't getting in through the fuel system or atleast i don't think it was unless the jets supplying air are extremely small. I think this got into the carb because they dont have air filters like 90% of internal combustion engines and maybe were too large to get through thus depriving or starving the cylinder for fuel. Or atleast thats what i am hoping for! But yeah, most guys are also having the idle jet gumming up faster bc of the smaller orafaces as opposed to the main. Was your blockage this big or bigger? Just curious... thanks


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## DONAGHUE (Nov 18, 2017)

When I had that issue I had gone through the carbs weeks before... the trash was a sliver of 5200 that must've been on the screwdriver that found its way to the bowl... pretty embarrassing for a self proclaimed mechanic... learn from your mistakes....


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Headeache2stroke said:


> Trying to find out a good place to order the carb kit. The few places i have searched doesn't specify if the kit is for both/dual carbs or just a single and the price to me seems a bit high for one. If i knew it was for both at around 40 bucks then I'd just order it, have it to replace all the gaskets and replaceable parts or rubber and soft parts. I figured i might as well if i have them out, and about to clean things up. Suggestions on a good place to buy the "carb kits?" Thanks!


If you are purchasing the following: 
*6L2-W0093-00-00*

It comes with the gaskets, float, pins and float needles *for BOTH carbs*. 

I recently purchased this kit myself for $40 for the 2006 version of the 25ESH.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks for all of the comments, suggestions, personal experiences and gking to try to get these carbs back in, clean under the cowl, and dump this boat in the water! Crossing my fingers and toes, after seeing what was in the carbs i don't want to say it's fixed but i am as optimistic as i could be after removing a shovel full of dirt out of the jets, mostly main jet, top carb. I hope my next post here is my final for troubleshooting this issue. Couldn't have asked for better guidance throughout this ordeal. Thanks fellas!


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

If you give up on this motor , I would be very interested in it for parts . I have a gheenoe sitting I cant use due to NO SPARK :-(


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Sorry, its fixed. I went out in it yesterday and with the help of the people on this thread i got it running better than ever! It was just the carbs needing cleaning. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this post!


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I sure don't miss carbs.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2019)

Now about that sea food???


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Boatbrains said:


> Now about that sea food???


Lol man i gotta get my freezer stocked. Maybe you can send some of those beautiful lobsters and ill send some mini-lobsters and frog legs.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

My previous high speed per GPS was 31mph with the clogged jets in the 25 Yamaha. Broke that record easily once it was getting fuel without trouble! It felt much more powerful, torquey, and throttle response was amazing. But to see 37mph is either a glitch or gaining 6mph from 31mph is a clear sign that i need to maintain my carburetors much better going forward.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

devrep said:


> I sure don't miss carbs.


I love them. Super easy to clean and adjust.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Sorry for the late follow up but the motor is still running like a top! 
I have gone out in it atleast 20 or 30 times fishing and frogging since this original post. I couldn't have fixed it without the help of everyone who participated in helping me. 
My conclusion was that when the previous owner accidentally lost the cowlin and had no cover on the motor for a few months the leaves, trash gathered in the engine compartment and stayed. Being there is not an actual air filter on it I believe when I'd hit a log or something that jarred the debris inside that compartment loose it would eventually get into the air induction and into the carburetors jets. I found some large chunk of debris there, I should have started looking there sooner but had someone recently cleaned the carbs and was just assuming it wasn't dirty carb related and I was wrong! I can't remember and didn't check but I think I posted pictures of the trash found in top carb jets. I spent plenty of time cleaning those carbs, making them spotless, spent another 2hrs just cleaning out every speck of debris in the engine compartment that got in there when the cowl was missing. Obviously haven't ran it without the cowlin since. I have started running it a tad rich as well. I did some reading on that 100:1 oil to gasoline mixture being (only when using Yamalube 2 cycle engine oil) and I run quicksilver because it's quality oil and much easier to find when gassing up. What I've read was most guys not using Yamalube but something like quicksilver are actually running either 75:1 or even 50:1 so I bumped up my oil mixture to 75:1 even though I've always ran it 100:1 with the quicksilver brand. And maybe someone knows if I'm just wasting oil by running richer or if this is a good idea but I'd rather rich than lean for obvious reasons. My addition of an inline water separator/fuel filter has also given me a bit more peace of mind with an aluminum fuel tank and its possiblity of sweating, making water inside the tank. But overall I worked on this motor for almost a month from the broken air/fuel screw and idling issue to the burning plugs and killing at full throttle. Now it idles until I kill it and runs great under full throttle! My little lightweight boat and 111lb. outboard are ideal for what I do. But have been researching these new 25hp Yamaha 4-stroke engines * only 12-15lbs heavier and more low end torque out of the hole! I am very impressed with what Yamaha is doing with their development of lightweight 4-stroke outboard engines, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I were in the market! I'm definitely not a big 2-stroke or die type but for a guy with one of the most fuel efficient and latest model 2-stroke outboards I'll be sticking to what I have for a while! Too easy to work on (*if you know what you're doing ofcourse lol) and I just like my high revving and well running little motor. But overall the decision to join this group and get the help and support to resolve my engine problems was the best thing I could have done to get back on the water, in the swamp! Cajun guy back doing what I love to do thanks to the friendly people on this site!
*now, if I can only add a few horses easily without sacrificing much reliability or spending a fortune!


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

A new record size American Bullfrog caught (my personal best, over 2lbs but no official weight or measurements)


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

My first ever albino blue catfish! Living 2 miles from the Mississippi River I was fishing "bush lines" all of the month of May. I finally got burnt out after an insane total of 47 filled ice chests (48 quart size) and caught 3 blues over 40lbs while fishing! It was as good of fishing as I have witnessed in my life! Almost as fast as I was baiting lines I was catching fish! It was crazy, easily over 1,000 fish caught and harvested and 10,000lbs rough catch before cleaning/processing. Donated 1/3 of my catch to some guys who cleaned them for me and still filled 3 freezers with fillets and gave away around 100lbs of fillets to freinds and family. Couldn't have done it with an outboard not running properly!


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Me and my sister caught 16 big frogs. That's some good eatin!







Me and my podnah last weekend caught 42 more nice frogs! With so much high water in Louisiana's spillways and bayous this year there aren't many people catching numbers like this. Most don't have a narrow skiff and light weight, high revving 25 Yamaha to get them into the places I'm able to access!


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)




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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Just another day in the flooded woods of the mighty Mississippi River. A 55 gallon drum full of catfish, definitely too heavy to move by yourself







My buddy is all smiles after taking this beauty of a snapping turtle. Not sure if anyone else here eats turtle meat but it's probably favored over frog legs by most in this part of the country! I guess knowing the cleaned/processed meat sells for nearly $20/pound compared to cleaned/processed bullfrogs selling for around $30 a dozen or uncleaned, live bullfrogs going for around $3/pound I'd choose the turtle EVERYTIME! and still caught more catfish that day than we needed. Had a fairly productive evening on the day.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

When I'd tell people I was "loading the boat" it's only because I was loading the boat! Lol this was before I started bringing 55 gallon drums to put the fish in. It was getting hard to move around with 300lbs of slimy catfish on the bottom of the boat! Had to make a few minor changes to my setup.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

I just wanted to share a few photos of the past few months of some of my trips on the water. That skiff sat up, unused for over 3 years! I finally purchased it from my stepdad and started to work on getting it back to it's original state so I could use to make memories like these. Again, thank you all for the help, no one made any of you help a stranger. But you guys came to my aid and I'm thankful! Happy 4th of July weekend, I hope you are also spending it on the water. Stay safe, I hope to help in the future as you have. I greatly appreciate it fellas!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

It feels good to have a smooth running motor for sure.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2019)

You can always send some frog legs and catfish out way!


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Boatbrains said:


> You can always send some frog legs and catfish out way!


Frog legs are being "consumed" as fast as we catch them lol. If you can figure out a method to ship frozen fish, fillets in ziploc with water, I'd happily assist with your next fish fry! Later in the season, once I get some frogs in the freezer I wouldn't be opposed to sending some your way. It's hard to right now because literally every leg cleaned goes in the grease immediately or my parents, sister and her family's freezer, as well as the other guy in the photo. He does the actual catching and pays for fuel. I just captain the ship.


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## Headeache2stroke (Apr 8, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> It feels good to have a smooth running motor for sure.


No joke! I was ready to go find the deepest part of the Mississippi River and pull the plug, step into another boat, maybe even pour gasoline on mine and throw a match just to watch it sink and go down in flames lol. 
* I'm not a dummy just not a mechanic really either. I was scared to go into the carbs a month after my buddy did, I really didn't think it was my carbs plus I'm the guy that opens up a critical component of an engine for the first time, alone and a tiny spring flies across the yard or shop and I spen the first 2hrs on my hands and knees cussing and searching for it. Once found the next hour cussing while trying to find out where the heck it came from! Then an hour on the internet cussing more and not finding what I'm looking for! All resulting in another reason to go to church and pay a mechanic, but the worst part is feeling defeated by the darn thing! I won't even lie, I was very hesitant to pull those carbs and go through them, now can almost do it with my eyes closed lol. And obviously the problem was found and fixed once I followed the advice on here and just bit my bottom lip and did it.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I had my Yamaha carbs perplex me last month and learned about Chem Dip and how to properly clean the jets. Running like sewing machines now.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I had my Yamaha carbs perplex me last month and learned about Chem Dip and how to properly clean the jets. Running like sewing machines now.


Once you figure them out it's super easy to do again. With rec fuel and regular use there's no need to worry.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Once you figure them out it's super easy to do again. With rec fuel and regular use there's no need to worry.


Super easy. I found two sources of ethanol free and ran it last week.


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## jonny (May 1, 2007)

I have been racing and building 2 strokes motors for over three decades. And I got my ass handed to me trying to fix a Merc 60 carbs. That had sat for a few years. I cleaned em three times! And finally swallowed my pride and took it to a “professional”. And you know what. He got his ass handed to him also. But they had just got a new ultrasonic cleaner in that same week. And mine were the first to go in the pot. It never ran better after that. It cost me $300 to figure it out. My sons xr80 carb is kicking my ass now. I’m going to buy a ultrasonic cleaner of Amazon. BTW those little torch tip cleaning kits. Are the shiat for cleaning all those tiny circuits in the carb body.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Are you gigging those frogs near a nuclear power plant by any chance? Do they glow after theyve been dead for a while? Just wonderin'......


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

jonny said:


> I have been racing and building 2 strokes motors for over three decades. And I got my ass handed to me trying to fix a Merc 60 carbs. That had sat for a few years. I cleaned em three times! And finally swallowed my pride and took it to a “professional”. And you know what. He got his ass handed to him also. But they had just got a new ultrasonic cleaner in that same week. And mine were the first to go in the pot. It never ran better after that. It cost me $300 to figure it out. My sons xr80 carb is kicking my ass now. I’m going to buy a ultrasonic cleaner of Amazon. BTW those little torch tip cleaning kits. Are the shiat for cleaning all those tiny circuits in the carb body.


Chem-Dip is awesome


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