# Opinions on shallow water etiquette



## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

On the flats and the grass what do you try to adhere to as far as space between you and other boats??? 

Just a few questions to get started, but please add all you can think of!  

If in a creek (maybe 2 miles long and 500/600yds wide, not a puddle), is it OK to fish one side while another boat fishes the other?

If a boat is poling up a creek, is it OK to fish behind him and go down the creek in the opposite direction???

Just how far is far enough and do y'all use the "what would I feel like if I were in the other boat" scenario? 

How far do you try to pass someone on a flat while fishing (on plane and poling/TM)???

Is there anything communicating sensibly can't solve?

I hope this will be interesting and informative and that folks will chime in from the bonefish flats as well as the grass.oyester bars and creeks! Thanks in advance!!!

Good Fishing!!!


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Another thing I have been around.

If I'm poling a flat in my skiff, and I come around a bend to find people wading with fly rods.
What's too close?
As I was poling around a guy who was wading, he waved me over to ask me about the area.
He had never fished there before.
I worked my way around him and found a lot of bones. lol

He had no clue they were behind him as he was blind casting out. lol


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

The problem with these kinds of questions are the answers are all subjective. Some people are a lot more sensitive about space than others, and even those that aren’t have bad days from time to time. So, I can only speak to my experience and opinion.

First, a 500/600yd wide creek is huge! No one should have any complaint with you working the other bank. You might just want to stay a little ahead or behind them though.

As for following another boat, I’ve done it and had it done to me in a lot smaller creeks than you’re talking about. If I’m the follower, I just try to stay far enough back that our casts can’t cross, plus another 50-100ft. Never had any complaints.

Also, you’ll run into boats anchored or staked in narrow water sometimes, and if you can’t go around, all you can do is idle thru as quietly and distantly as possible. A friendly wave, nod or a few apologetic words will often smooth any bristled hairs in such a situation, and for the most part, people seem to know that is going to happen when they position themselves in such a spot.

The best thing you can do in any situation you’re unsure of is just ask. Folks are very tolerant if just show you’re not intentionally being a jerk. Quietly pull up within speaking range and just say, “Hey, do you guys mind if I do ….?” Works wonders…


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

great topic and timely too (at least for me )

When I'm asked or confronted with these kinds of things, the first thing I say/do is ask myself what I'd expect if I were in the other guy's position. Put another way, if I were them what action would the intruder take that wouldn't piss me off? (edit: I read your post too quickly and saw you had this one already, sorry. I still think its the #1 rule tho )

If you stop and think about it that way for a few seconds and think through your options you'll probably do the right thing. 

There are other situations where the people fishing are either near busy channels or otherwise high traffic areas and there aren't many options you can take to minimize the intrusion that would matter anyway. A friendly gesture or words if you're close enough "I gotta get through here, I hope I don't mess you up too bad" should be enough.

The other thing is knowing the type of fishing that is going on. My recent sore point is fly fishing for tarpon in areas that are appealing for other uses. I don't expect jet skiers or the typical pleasure boater to "get it", recognize what I'm up to and give me a wide berth, but rude or indifferent fisherman I'm way less patient or tolerant of. So knowing what you've stumbled into is important too.

As I've said in recent posts, no one owns the water, but a little respect will go a long way for everyone's sake. Well, that's my 2 cents on the matter anyway.


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## iFly (Mar 9, 2010)

I agree with HaMm3r that,"these kinds of questions are the answers are all subjective."

Where I differ a bit is that I wouldn't suggest pulling up "within speaking range." If someone spooks fish between me and them, I wouldn't be happy. For my part, I wait til they look my way and I raise my hands up as to say, "what's up" or "anything going on where you are"? If they turn their backs on me, It's clear to me that they want plenty of space. If they wave me over, I go closer and ask questions. I usually start by offering some information about how my fishing is going that day to show a willingness to share.

Kind of sounds like I'm approaching animals in the wild and don't want to get bit but... I don't want to get bit. 

There are plenty of fishing places around. None of us own them. Just try to figure out some good ways to share the space.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I subscribe to the old "do unto others" routine,
then add in the possibility that the next boat is occupied by a half lit crazy
with a wrist rocket and a five pound bag of 1/2 ounce sinkers...
Distance equals safety for all concerned.


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## Salty_South (Feb 25, 2009)

when all else fails, just shout, "mind if I .... or ......." People usually respond pretty well to that in SC.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> Where I differ a bit is that I wouldn't suggest pulling up "within speaking range." If someone spooks fish between me and them, I wouldn't be happy. For my part, I wait til they look my way and I raise my hands up as to say, "what's up" or "anything going on where you are"? If they turn their backs on me, It's clear to me that they want plenty of space. If they wave me over, I go closer and ask questions. I usually start by offering some information about how my fishing is going that day to show a willingness to share.
> 
> Kind of sounds like I'm approaching animals in the wild and don't want to get bit but... I don't want to get bit.


If you read my post more carefully, I was referring to situations where there is either no or very limited navigable way to get by them, or as is the case around here where people fish in or right near marked channels. In which case you have no other choice but to pass by within close proximity. 

My point was in those cases if you happen to be close enough to exchange words then by all means do so. If they act like idiots when you're trying to be cordial, even though the real problem is where they chose to fish, then its open season to speak your mind. 

Case in point... just this Sunday my son and I were headed out to the Gulf and 2 guys in a little bow rider/tri-hull were anchored just off the center of the channel and a rather narrow one at that with very nasty rocks to greet you if you stray off course. This is a very long channel too, and they were roughly 2.5-3 miles off shore. 

Here's a shot of them as we're coming back in. They really are farther into the channel than this angle shows:









You can't see from the pic, but not only is the vessel blocking nearly half of a narrow channel, their anchor rode is extending into the center of the channel too (you can surmise this by the direction of the bow).  









Here's an extreme case of the rocky hazards.









and here's a more subtle example (rocks slightly above water on left just below horizon line)









Although not specifically illegal according to the USCG regs, I can assure you had a Coast Guard patrol boat encountered these guys they would have requested they weigh anchor and find a less hazardous place to fish.


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks folks for the insights! 

I fish quite a few tidal creeks with pretty extensive grass flats on both sides and with a fairly limited amount of time to fish em, ususually about 1 1/2 hours before the high and an 1 or 2 into the low depending on wind, I try to give folks what I'd like to have as far as space. 

With that said, if another skiff is 250/300yds into the creek on one side and heading up, I have no problem with fishing the same side they're on and heading out or fishing the other side of the creek in the grass. Now this creek is about a mile and a half or two miles long and is fishable from front to back. 

Again, trying to give folks as much as I'd like to have and even a little more works for me 99% of the time, hope it does for y'all!!! 

Good Fishing!!!


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Good luck with this, in my area I can't even get people to have any courtesy at sea, let alone shallow water fishing. It's a lost cause. 

I've personally had idiots anchor so close to me when another boat could NOT be seen anywhere on the horizon that they actually caught my anchor with theirs. Tell me the odds of that!

Last week while my wife was fighting a sail, some bonehead trolling bye sees it jump and proceeds to troll right over her line within 30 yards of our boat, she had to stick the rod tip down deep in the water to avoid a cutoff. The whole time I'm screaming at the guys and they're looking at us clueless, bent fishing rod in hand and all and it doesn't register that she's already hooked up to the fish.

[smiley=bigun2.gif] [smiley=bigun2.gif]

These are just a very limited snapshot of what goes on every day in our area, and has proceeded to get worse in the last 15 years. I've un-officially named the last few boats I've had "Idiot Magnet" because of this. 

-T


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## Yoreese (Oct 15, 2009)

I agree with prior posts as subjective to situation. 

Flats etiquette is almost gone in the Lagoon. We were in a small cove on a school of fish with a push pole and had A'holes trolling motor up within casting distance of our boat. This is just inexcusable and it would have been even worse if we had a bent rod!! 

Good rule of thumb don't cut someone off in the middle of a flat they are poling across, get behind them and work and a safe distance usually a few 100 yards at least behind them. Especially if you know they are a guide with paying customers on board. 

There are many more but usually if you have to wonder if your too close you usually are. The water is very crowded on the weekends so we all have to fish and get along. Just think before you bust in on someone.


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## TidewateR (Nov 11, 2009)

...we rarely (if ever) encounter other anglers on the flats...let alone other flats boats

[smiley=StirPotChef.gif]

but I'd take jerks over oil any day


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## floridanative1028 (May 30, 2009)

Tom I know EXACTLY what you mean. Its the same way down here and the thing that blows my mind is that most of the people who do it are well to do wealthy people in brand new boats. It blows my mind how they had enough smarts to finish med school or law school or whatever and get all that money but they just lack the any kind of common sense. Or are they just a**holes? 

(Keep in mind I live in Boca Raton so I deal with trust fund babies, yanks, and frat boys on a daily...no... hourly basis.)


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## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

x3 for TomFL

Fishing last Saturday with Ryan for the Tarpon. There are 4 boats sitting on the edge of the pods. Some guy with his 24ftish offshore boat was trolling inbetween all of us...with tarpon rolling! And it's not like he thought we were all deep jigging a reef and he could troll through lookin for some kings or something. WE WERE IN 8FT OF WATER! Dddeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Tampa Bay is slowing becoming Boca Grande for Tarpon.


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## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

Maurice also brought up a good point about guides. I tend to give them a wider margin. They are making money, not me. Especially when it comes to Tarpon fishing. It may be a no fish day for them if you get to close. And that equals no pay, or comped trips.

I am going to follow the Tarpon theme, lol. It does get crouded. Bean Point is starting to look like Boca Grande some days. You will get within 40ft of other boats, it's gunna happen. You need to be concious of what other boats are doing as well as your location to the fish. If they hook up you need to see where that fish is going. If it is headed for your boat you need to pick up your lines, trim your motors and give them right of way! DON'T MOTOR AWAY! Most likey the fish are still holding. In a couple minutes the guide will push out and the fishing will be back on. And you can take pride in knowing that you didn't cause a breakoff.


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## Canoeman (Jul 23, 2008)

> Good luck with this, in my area I can't even get people to have any courtesy at sea, let alone shallow water fishing. It's a lost cause.
> 
> I've personally had idiots anchor so close to me when another boat could NOT be seen anywhere on the horizon that they actually caught my anchor with theirs. Tell me the odds of that!
> 
> ...


There is some unexplained power in the cosmos that causes this type of behavior. Fortunately not all people are afflicted. I think that WalMartians are probably the most commonly affected. If you doubt my theory, just park your car in the far corner of a WalMart parking lot and wait 10 minutes. Someone will park next to you. If they have a trailer hitch, then they have the same problem on the water also. This isn't hard science, but I'd bet my dog on it.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

And for the record, I also never meant to imply you should pull up right alongside and ask. "Speaking range" on the water is a heck of a lot longer than it is on land, as you all know. You can hear conversations from seemingly a mile away sometimes. So, it's not too tough to keep a respectful distance and still exchange words. 

But then again, this is coming from a primarily inshore angler who mostly fishes narrow water. The offshore/tarpon crowd obviously have a different expectation and were I fumbling around out there on my own, I might very well step on some toes. So, I'm glad to learn some of this.


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

It is true...you don't own the water...but I've always tried to subscribe to two rules...

1) first come, first serve...if someone is there....they've got the "rights"...wait for them to leave or trail in behind them at a respectable difference...but, in turn, if you were the first one there, then try to share the space...work the water, but work it more efficiently and move on, so other folks can have a chance too.

2) the ol' golden rule...do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...

I'm all about giving guides their space...but on a river I used to frequent, we had guides that would row down and anchor right in the middle of a the channel to put their clients on fish...this is not a problem, but when you have 5-6 drift boats stacked up behind you waiting to get through, that is not courteous...I've also seen them "sit" on a run and have a cold drink or lunch with their clients, to keep others from fishing it....JACKLEGS!!!!   

I kept several items in my boat to help out with that situation....a watergun that would shoot 75 ft...a few palm sized rocks, and a baitcaster with a heavy lead weight...a patient and polite attitude on my part was used first...if that didn't work, then the watergun might encourage them...if that failed a well placed rock in their fishing hole, or the zing of a lead ball going across their bow might work better.  Since I knew most of the guides up there, a little discussion would usually take place at the campground later, finished off by a cold drink around the campfire.  Usually it was a mis-understanding, sometimes it was just a Jacka$$.

Don't get me wrong...I was raised on the water...my Pop taught me to have respect, patient and be polite for and towards others on the water...and I will be patient and polite before anything else...


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> And for the record, I also never meant to imply you should pull up right alongside and ask. "Speaking range" on the water is a heck of a lot longer than it is on land, as you all know. You can hear conversations from seemingly a mile away sometimes. So, it's not too tough to keep a respectful distance and still exchange words.
> 
> But then again, this is coming from a primarily inshore angler who mostly fishes narrow water. The offshore/tarpon crowd obviously have a different expectation and were I fumbling around out there on my own, I might very well step on some toes. So, I'm glad to learn some of this.


Jeff, it happens all the time inshore too. Think of a winding creek, you come around a blind turn and there's a guy fishing there. Do you turn around a go somewhere else because he was there already? What if the creek is a few miles long ahead of him and he's in paddle craft, is the rest of the creek all his now because you can't pass him within this "safe" distance you guys are talking about? 

What if this winding creek was a connector between 2 larger bodies of water, are you shut out now to the bigger body too? There's a place in ENP, Tarpon Creek which connects Coot Bay to Whitewater Bay. The creek is very fishy, relatively narrow and contains several blind turns and a lot of guys like to work the bends, snags and blow downs that line it before moving on. So is everyone cut off from 60 miles of estuary to the north because some guy staked out at one of the creek bends?

Of course not, you move as far as you can to the opposite side of the creek and idle by and be on your merry way. Me, being the gregarious idiot that I am though will invariably say something stupid like "any luck?" Or, how about this one "the tide is really rippin' through here today, eh?" That sort of stuff usually really sets them off.  

This is what I mean about passing someone when there is no other option and being polite or having a cordial dialog as you pass through can't hurt.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> Jeff, it happens all the time inshore too. Think of a winding creek, you come around a blind turn and there's a guy fishing there. Do you turn around a go somewhere else because he was there already? What if the creek is a few miles long ahead of him and he's in paddle craft, is the rest of the creek all his now because you can't pass him within this "safe" distance you guys are talking about?
> 
> What if this winding creek was a connector between 2 larger bodies of water, are you shut out now to the bigger body too?


Oh, this is a persistent scenario where I fish. One way in, one way out. Most of the regulars know each other and understand you've gotta get by. Admittedly, I've been annoyed a few times when I've had a tough day, finally get on some fish and someone just has to get through.  Still, I'm always tolerant and will at least wave when in a bad mood, but more often will just act like it's no problem and talk with them. I've probably done the same to them, or will in the future. 

A few months ago, I was way, way into the creek system and I wanted to run to a spot farther out. About halfway to where I was going I spotted a skiff with a guide and client working the creek. I could tell they were anchored right in the center of the channel. I thought about it for a minute and made a course change through a bunch of little tributaries and real tricky stuff. Most people wouldn't have any clue how to connect those dots, but I popped out way on the other side of the guide and continued on my way.

Later that day, the guide caught up with me and thanked me for going around. He said he'd never had anyone do that before and didn't even know it was possible to go that way. He invited me to fish with him after that and although I haven't taken him up that offer, I do see him from time to time and he waves me over to help corral a school or talk about what's biting and where. That just proves how far a little consideration can go.


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## natasha1 (Jul 27, 2009)

Great topic.  I had an issue arise a few weeks ago in which I pulled up to the flat and cut the motor about 200 yards away from the area I was going to pole.  I then proceeded to use my trolling motor to get into the shallows to began looking for reds. Well I get to my area and pull the trolling motor up and right as I am getting my angler situated a skiff pulls up right beside me. I mean 20 yards away and starts poling down the flat in front of me.  Well I know cool heads prevail, but I had to pole up next to this guy and let him know how I felt.  After that I poled the skiff in front of him and cut off his path.

May not have been the best way to handle as I am an advocate for sharing water, but I had to take action as a lesson needed to be taught.

To answer the question asked at the beginning of the thread, I like the way CA Richardson approaches the topic in his Etiquette article; "If you think you are too close, you were probably too close 100 yards ago".

Oh, and burners suck !!!


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

The only time I get really irritated on the flats is with motors or trolling motors. If I am up on the push pole, chances are I am stalking fish, or at least wanting to be real quiet. Translation......please do the same. I do not have a problem with other anglers poling on the same flat or even paddling a kayak on the flat relatively close to me. They are relatively silent and more than likely are not going to completely blow the flat. Now if my angler has is casting to fish and the other skiff or kayak poles or paddles on that same side where my angler is working.....yeah, that's an issue. Common sense says go to the opposite side of where lines are out, if possible. If you are in a skiff or a kayak, fishing and parked in the channel....I will do my best, but won't have much sympathy for you.


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

Maybe this could get moved to General Discussion..


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## natasha1 (Jul 27, 2009)

I have no problem sharing water with other poling skiffs, but don't jump in front, get in line behind.  

I wish sharing water with other poling skiffs was my biggest problem, but unfortunately here in Texas, it is the land of scooters, and tunnel hulls.  These idiots run as shallow as they can as fast as they can for no reason at all.


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## capt_gordon (Sep 10, 2007)

Great topic. Thanks for getting it going SOBX.


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

Glad you chimed in cappy! Hope things are going great for you. Capt. Obvious said to tell you hello.

Good Fishing!!!


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

Sorry to rehash but; RANT ON:

I got out this morning before the sun, and any other angler for that matter. My plan was to work a new to me flat that is about three miles long and has at least 4.5 miles of marsh on the one side. We'll about an hour into my poling I hear some guys chatting and look over to see 3 a$$hats running there outboard in 3 feet of water and just chattering away like a bunch of 13 year old Twilight fans. I gave a little cough and soon they shut off their Johnson and switched to the troller, aiming to jump in front of me working down the grass line. Little did they know, I can pole faster than just about any craft out there so I punched and stared them down, the backed off and started blind casting some dead shrimp(some real flats fishermen there). 

So I keep on, didn't say a thing to them but heard there entire conversation.. They stayed in a pocket by a creek mouth and eventually it was just me and the mullet, or so I thought. 

Here comes a senior a$$hat. just plugging away with his outboard running, he shuts down the engine, and jumps up to the bow dropping the troller in and running full tilt to cut me off and get into a small cove not 50 feet away from me. The thing is, I had been poling down this grass line all morning, I hadn't seen one tail, wake, mud not even heard a pop. Something was around because every now and again there was a mullet jump or a minnow shower, but no wake from the feeding fish. F- it I say to myself, and give him some time to get to the back of the cove and then shot past him to the next point and subsequent cove... Again, I didn't say anything, nor did he, and neither of these two ----s waved or rally acknowledged I was there. 

The catch:
I recognized that second boat and the geezer at the helm, I have seen him at the fish camp where he leaves his Mitzi skiff in the water 24/7-365, we may have nodded to each other in the past, but I do not recollect.  Now I was hot. I know this guy has fished this flat for years, I couldn't believe he would pull that, I mean really, with greater 4.5miles of grass line, you have to jump into the cove in front of a stranger poling a canoe!  So my head spun, I thought about snipping the valve stems from the tires on his SUV, or just leaving a bag of bait in the center console or under deck storage.. 

I ended up leaving a note on his windshield:

"A$$hole! Do us a favor and google search: 'Flats fishing Etiquette."

Hopefully he'll get the idea.

RANT OFF..

No catches to report, had one hit in a creek mouth putting a bendback near a school of minnows but the hook set came up slack.


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