# Shadow sat 16 vs 18



## flyfishrep (Apr 25, 2013)

Can anyone describe the differance in these two hulls. Beam specs are the same. Has anyone with experience running these two boats?


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## mirrocraft (Apr 29, 2009)

2 Feet! ;D


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

The 18 will do better in chop..


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Length...width...finish....tunnel...and max HP are all different between the two.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2013)

> The 18 will do better in chop..


If you had ever fished out of a 17T you would know that they run like crap in a chop. The tunnel is the problem.

I have been on 2 16' ShadowCasts and can only imagin how the 18' ShadowCast performs with a tunnel the size of 17T without the sponsons to counter the increased draft of a the tunnel. Both models are the best value around, but without an option for a non-tunnel one just needs to look at how many used ones are for sale.

I have a minimal ankona suv17 and there is no comparison to either ShadowCast and can't think of one Positive over the SUV17. The price for the hull is just a little more.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> > The 18 will do better in chop..
> 
> 
> If you had ever fished out of a 17T you would know that they run like crap in a chop.
> ...


Having owned a 17T how in your opinion does the ride compare?


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> > > The 18 will do better in chop..
> >
> >
> > If you had ever fished out of a 17T you would know that they run like crap in a chop.
> ...


Better yet how is his post relevant at all, to the OP's question. The 18' will in fact ride better than the 16' why because it has 2 extra feet and can span the sea's better.

Now as to whether or not the 16' or 18' rides good in chop is another question that was not asked. And depend on one's defintion of ride.

OP there have been a lot of Shadow cast sold within very few months of purchase & that is typically for 2 reasons 1) poor quality (Don't think that's the problem here) or People buy on Hype and emotion to find out they bought the wrong boat. Please wet test both the 16' & 18' in a choppy condition to see if it's to your standard. As well as any other boat you are thinking about purchasing, and test's you want to see 1st hand IE draft, speed, handling, Stability, etc etc.

I am not a fan of the SC as I think it serves no purpose for its price point nor is it the best value around, I can do anything in a 1642 Jon boat for $$$ less or other boats that are being built. But if it's the boat for you then don't let negativity from others persuade you form purchasing it. Just as don't let someone's hype/BS convince you to purchase it's your hard earned money be sure of what you spend it on. 

Tight lines


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## flyfishrep (Apr 25, 2013)

Thank you all for your replies. Very encouraging comments. I was particularly interested in ride in chop, it appears not much better in the 18 even with 2 more feet length. This may help narrow down my choice in opting for a slightly wider beam and going with the Native SUV.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

If you are considering the SUV, test ride both if you can get to the factory. Then report back your observations.

Cheers,
Capt. Jan


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2013)

> > > The 18 will do better in chop..
> >
> >
> > If you had ever fished out of a 17T you would know that they run like crap in a chop.
> ...


I have not been on an 18' ShadowCast, but many 17T's and other Tunnel Models and they all ride bad in a chop as you well know, draft more, handle worse then the same or comparable Skiff with-out a tunnel. Since neither SC Skiffs have the above just apply some simple Physics.

I have spoken with many TX tunnel manufactures, Areo Marine, Marine Engineers and do believe both ShadowCasts when set-up right can work great. 

The 17T, Hells Bay, ECC, Maverick all have sponsons, noticed transom and outboards with Power TnT a 4 blade performance prop is really all that's needed. 

Since the ShadowCast lacks those features, adding a Jack plate, trim tabs in addition to the 4 blade prop allow it to then perform closer to those mentioned Skiffs. The owner of the lone SC18 has post several times that " a jack plate is not needed". Well, he has the only ShadowCast with power TnT on his motor. :

Mel of Ankona said this about the 18' in a thread. "
If I could take you out in a SC18 and you didn't know it had had a tunnel, you would come back to the dock and still not know. Exept we ran through some upsurd shallow water along the way"

That's the first time I have ever heard someone claim that ever. Now,maybe Mel was referring to a 1st time Skiff buyer who and have no idea what a tunnel is or he has now become the Pioneer of Tunnel Hull Design. :


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Just more Brazil useless information. Just like I said earlier, the 18 will do better in chop. Creek explained the concept well as to why. And who in the world was even talking about a 17T?


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> > > > The 18 will do better in chop..
> > >
> > >
> > > If you had ever fished out of a 17T you would know that they run like crap in a chop.
> ...


Thank you. Your comment is appreciated. Next time it would help the OP to say this up front. Then they can weight your comments accordingly.

Now, I have not been on one either, thus I will not comment other to tell the OP to get out on one and take a test ride. 

Capt. Jan


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2013)

> Thank you all for your replies. Very encouraging comments. I was particularly interested in ride in chop, it appears not much better in the 18 even with 2 more feet length. This may help narrow down my choice in opting for a slightly wider beam and going with the Native SUV.


I fish around ML and can take you out maybe. Send a PM if interested.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Never seen the 18 can't comment. I own a 16 sc and can help. For the size boat it is it handles chop very well. The hull is solid feeling and it can take a beating. It has a good amount of entry vee up front for a small skiff. In my opinion this is what sets it apart from gheenoes and jon boats. With trim tabs or power tilt/trim you can stuff the nose down in a chop. Head on it eats a chop and stays pretty dry. Running at an angle to the chop it can get wet due to its narrow beam and lack of spray rails. With tabs I can raise the wet side and drop the dry side which helps with the spray.
If you are trying to run on the pad to take chop any tunnel or flat bottom it will be rough. If you utilize the vee up front as designed it makes the ride a lot more comfortable.

As mentioned 18 ft will span over chop better. For my applications around the lagoon the 16 does fine. If its super windy 20-25 mph I typically stay home because sight fishing in those conditions is a pain anyways. I have been caught in some nasty conditions on mine and haven't felt uncomfortable.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Forgot to mention it poles a lot easier than some of the other skiffs I have fished and owned ; beavertail, hpx, copperhead, gheenoe, mitzi.....
The low gunnels and narrow beam help contribute to this. Is it perfect? No I wish it had more dry storage and a few extra inches of beam.


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## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

Never been on either SC, but was out in my SUV17 this morning in a fairly healthy wind and chop. If you wet test.. try to get a ride in one that has trim tabs. Trim your motor and tabs to lower the bow just a bit, point it into the chop and let 'er go. I'm still amazed ..when properly trimmed, .. at how well the SUV with zero dead rise at the transom handles a 20 knot head wind in fairly open waters with relative comfort and a dry ride.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

> Can anyone describe the differance in these two hulls. Beam specs are the same. Has anyone with experience running these two boats?


Go test drive them


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> > > > The 18 will do better in chop..
> > >
> > >
> > > If you had ever fished out of a 17T you would know that they run like crap in a chop.
> ...


Have you been in in a Shadowcast??

What other boats are in it's class in your mind? I'm just curious as to why you believe it serves no purpose. A complete brand new technical poling skiff for under $10k. How many of those exist? I assume by nature of price and size, you'd probably say IPB 14, Gheenoe LT25, I don't know what else you can truly compare as a new poling skiff under $10k

You cannot sit here and argue that a Jon Boat will do the same job as a Shadowcast. If that's where you are going, you clearly haven't fished and poled out of both, I however have. There's no way that a jon boat will track as true or as quiet as a Shadowcast. Jon boats are not designed for poling, where the Shadowcast was made to be a skiff specifically for poling. 

Now, lets compare to a Gheenoe. Again, the Shadowcast will hands down out perform an LT25 in every aspect. Fit and finish is far superior on the SC, and construction is superior. I love the LT25, they're great little boats. But they're not better than a Shadowcast . At the end of the day, you have a $9k canoe.

The IPB14 again, just like the LT25 has no stringer system. The floor you stand on is the skin of the hull. They're nice little boats, but again compared to the Shadowcast it's not even close. The fit and finish is worlds apart. I cannot compare performance of the two, for I have no been in the IPB14 yet. 


Not saying that any of the skiffs I mentioned are not good. Every skiff has it's purpose. The strength's of the IPB is the price. But because the price, the fit and finish as well as construction methods are going to take a hit. With that said, I am in no ways saying that IPB can't completely outfit a 14 to the efforts and quality and higher price of a Shadowcast. But that's not their niche. They're about getting a decent little skiff at a very affordable price. And that is excellent, because it allows many to get into fishing the flats who otherwise could not.

To say that the Shadowcast is irrelevant because it's got the nicer fit and finish, and most expensive of the few affordable skiffs in the market is ridiculous.   Yeah, I can go catch fish out of a jon boat, I can do the same out of a $50k skiff. But I bet you that $50k skiff will make it a whole lot more comfortable and easier. 

That's all I'm saying. 



And if you want to challenge what I said. Go ahead and get any jon boat you want. I'll borrow a shadowcast and I gaurantee I will pole faster, more accurately, and approach more fish than you would out of the jon boat. We can do this side by side on a flat. I have a few buddies who own SC, I'm sure they'll get a kick out of it.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Pib, first let me say im not trying to argue or anything like that.
You say the shadowcast has a better fit and finish than the lt25.
How?

The outsides of the hulls are out of a mold, so both are smooth and shiny. The insides are both rolled gelcoat.
Hows one nicer than the other?
Unlezs the shadowcast has a full on liner and cap like your copperhead, then I dont think it would even be fair to compare it


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

Yes I have been on 1, (2 as a matter of fact).

Geeze did I hit a nerve or something, Dude I gave my opinion and that's what it is. In the same breath I said if it's the boat for the OP then buy one.

The fit and finish is not that nice so you need to get off the trip, you make out like it's a darn yacht finish and it's not, not even close! Just because something is built in a mold don't make it a yacht finish! It has a floor and stringer system oh WOW give me a break it's a darn small skiff, do you know how many boats were and are still being built without false floors. 

The SC serves no point for its price point there are nicer used skiffs in the market that are basically brand new with so low hours that can be had for the same price as a Shadow cast. Let's use your number of 10K, for an additional 3K-4K you can get a used Copperhead. Which will outperform the SC  in every aspect other than maybe draft by an " or so. 

I would buy an IPB for $1850 even if had a few cosmetic issues before I would pay 4K for SC, or how about a used Ghee for $1000. 

It's very evident how well the SC performs on how many are re-sold after they are bought within months. Oh for thousands less. 

It's not that the SC is a bad skiff it's just hyped up so much by people just like you! People get a false expectation of what it is and what it can do. You love Ankona boats, and hype them up to be the best skiff with no limitations. I stand behind my post that I made and it is my opinion that the SC is overvalued for what it is.   Key word is value not price I'm not talking about how much it cost I'm talking about what the value is by what it can do and how it's built, etc, etc. But I told the OP to test ride in it in all conditions, and test Draft, stability, speed, etc etc. and if it's the skiff for him he should buy it, as he thinks it's a good value. Your post only pointed how much better it is than any other skiff and nothing even comes close which is all hype, and serves no point to the OP original post. 

Should have been more like this, Creek Runner I feel the SC has tremendous value for these reasons, etc etc etc, and then state to the OP that you should wet test the SC  yourself and see if it meets your needs and based on the cost if it has enough value for you to purchase one. Now that would have been a logical thought out response from someone who believes in a product but isn't hyping it, and wants what's best for the OP.  


Cut the decks are also built out of a mold so it has a superior finish!  ;D please!


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> Pib, first let me say im not trying to argue or anything like that.
> You say the shadowcast has a better fit and finish than the lt25.
> How?
> 
> ...



The shadowcast 18 has a cap. And the Shadowcast 16 comes standard with drop in front and rear decks out of a mold glassed in. It's not rolled gelcoat on the decks. The centerbox is clean smooth gelcoat out of a mold as well, unlike the Gheenoe center boxes. Again, it has a nicer fit and finish than the LT25.........


It's not hype. You think the guys who bought those skiffs didn't wet test them? You're comparing used skiffs with a new skiff. That's not what we are doing here. You said the Shadowcast has no purpose. It has a purpose. You're comparing a used skiff that cost twice as much as the Shadowcast, in a completely different class. 

I have no affiliation to Ankona other than having owned two of their skiffs. 

And you cannot compare a Gheenoe Highsider to a Shadowcast.... That's ridiculous. 

By the way, how's your skiff coming along? Did it ever get built?............


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

So why is an suv more than a shadowcast if the suv has a rolled floor, and the shadow cast has a finished floor?
Im honestly just curious :-?


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> So why is an suv more than a shadowcast if the suv has a rolled floor, and the shadow cast has a finished floor?
> Im honestly just curious :-?



The Shadowcast doesn't have a finished floor. It has finished decks, and finished components (console,centerbox, etc) The SUV is a bigger hull, and it has a finished cap. The SUV is also a lot more boat than a Shadowcast. 

And a combination of rolled and finished glass is much nicer than just all rolled and webbed. 

Although, that is relative to the person. 


What annoyed me is that the OP asked a question about the differences between both shadowcast models. It could be between any model of a boat. But why come on here and state nonsense trying to say that a Shadowcast is irrelevant, that a jon boat will be the same thing. That's ridiculous. So I stated facts as to why the Shadowcast is not irrelevant, that is all.


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## SilentHunter (Jun 14, 2010)

your all irrevelent.   heres whats really good.

the sc 16 great boat. the sc 18 im sure is a great boat.  the construction is good Mel is a mad scientist. if you want an affordable 10k skiff package for new boat and wanna run in skinny water dont mind getting a little wet here and there.  your gunna have to pick your days to fish when its blowing and your running open water.  Thats with any skiff that has under 5 foot beam low gunnels and ment to go in shallow water.  No one makes a skiff that does it all and stays dry when its rough.   

Stop aguring about the two use the search buttons new users.

brazildouche should be ban from the forums he always throws haterade around every thread hes in and it turns into floridasportsman around this piece.

microskiff is a small community full of idiots who have never been on any of the boats there compairing. Anyone can claim something they heard from someone els who heard it from there grandma.  no one gives a crap.

leave your useless bashing comments for thehulltruth. we want Real knowledge with real answers without the horsecrap.

With all that being said.... do a wet test on a windy day in ft pierce. Mel will be more than happy to take you in the slop on a ripping tide to show you the boat does perform well enough to cross open water with whitecapping water and feel as safe as it gets on a tiny boat"  your gunna get wet at some point it happens even on 40ft yellowfins.


If you like the way it rides i hope you buy one and fish it hard they are great boats at a great price.


good day boys.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> > Pib, first let me say im not trying to argue or anything like that.
> > You say the shadowcast has a better fit and finish than the lt25.
> > How?
> >
> ...


Yes it did I just chose to sell it, oh and made 4k on it when I did. How is your skiff selling at 20k, me and you can have a pissing match all we want. Doesn't belong on this post PM me. 

I have nothing against Ankona boats and have commented many times on people post on how nice their ride is (Ankona). I told the OP to buy one if he liked it after he put it through his area of testing. I stated that the 18SC will ride better than the 16SC. I don't hype any skiff and will give you the good and the bad even on my own skiffs. 

How many times have you said one negative things about an Ankona skiff, ie finish, ride, stability, draft, etc etc list goes on. They are perfect boats in your eyes with no limitations which is apparent with your post of running your copperhead at 40mph through a 3 foot chop. Now either your brainwashed into really believing they have no limitations or just chose not to point it out in a public forum, I think the later is the case cause even though I don't know you you have talent and are very smart apparent by some of the videos and paintings you have posted. 

I stand behind my post I made and still feel that for a few extra $$ it's worth the wait to get something other than the SC, I would buy Red Rippers copper head for 13,500 before I got into a new SC for 10+k, and yes I know it used verse new but I guarantee you as soon as you pick it up its now used, and a 2 year old copperhead will bring more money than a 6 month old SC on resale. 

OP sorry to have derailed your thread, please forgive my useless posts.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

In my opinion both sc's have their place next a copperhead. If I had my choice between the two I would pick the sc over copperhead for fishing mosquito lagoon. Easier to pole all day, floats shallow and requires less power to run. Its also easy to fish and control when fishing alone which I find myself doing quite often.

Some of us like the thought of a simple skiff that is still plenty capable. While it has some limitations compared to a bigger skiff it fishes shallow exceptionally well. It is far more capable than a Jon boat or gheeone as mentioned before. They don't track well, have lots of hull slap and are less capable of handling a decent chop. Try approaching a ml redfish in a boat with lots of hull slap trying to present a fly.. Your success rate will be horrible at best. Guess everyone has their own opinion.

I also think its a matter of perception and how you approach fishing. If I wanted a boat to fish the everglades or some other area that required long runs or open water I would opt for a copperhead, hpx or something else of similar size for range and comfort. In the lagoon I run two miles, shut down and pole all day long. For this application and other similar situations like coastal marsh, creeks, and rivers it does great..


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2013)

Look, both ShadowCast models are the BEST BANG for the buck out there now. The reason there are a lot of these for sale is that the tunnel SUCKS. At a minimum they all need to have a 4 blade cupped prop. Many who know a lot about tunnels say it's a poor design (16 & 18), but Mel refuses to make a non tunnel version which would make the skiff so much better.

I'm really sick of this discussion as a lot of you are to, wait until the ECC Glide is finished in the next month or 2. The Skiff is just 4" narrower then a Caimen, but more stable. Will be offered to two versions with the base @ 8K or so for the Hull. 20hp-40hp, will use 15" and 20" shaft motors, choice of Ramlin or continental trailer etc..........

Will be going to ECC in the next week or so to check it out and I'm pretty sure I'll be leaving a check. Bare Bones, 40hp Mercury Sea Pro, Aqua Mist Hull, Blue tone cap and floor?

Since the Glide is going to be priced very close to the ShadowCast 18' with cap I would say ECC is going to take a nice chunk of that market.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> In my opinion both sc's have their place next a copperhead. If I had my choice between the two I would pick the sc over copperhead for fishing mosquito lagoon. Easier to pole all day, floats shallow and requires less power to run. Its also easy to fish and control when fishing alone which I find myself doing quite often.
> 
> Some of us like the thought of a simple skiff that is still plenty capable. While it has some limitations compared to a bigger skiff it fishes shallow exceptionally well. It is far more capable than a Jon boat or gheeone as mentioned before. They don't track well, have lots of hull slap and are less capable of handling a decent chop. Try approaching a ml redfish in a boat with lots of hull slap trying to present a fly.. Your success rate will be horrible at best. Guess everyone has their own opinion.
> 
> I also think its a matter of perception and how you approach fishing. If I wanted a boat to fish the everglades or some other area that required long runs or open water I would opt for a copperhead, hpx or something else of similar size for range and comfort. In the lagoon I run two miles, shut down and pole all day long. For this application and other similar situations like coastal marsh, creeks, and rivers it does great..


Sir that is a well thought out post and makes your point very clearly, without all the hype as it's the best blah blah blah and has no limitations. My very 1st post was my opinion and based off the way I fish and where I fish and I promise you I could catch just as many redfish in North FL with a Jon boat as an SC, and I stated as you can see below for the OP to draw his on conclusion and not let one's negativity (mine included) or someone's hype persuade him. My post was in line and rebuttal to Brazil's post. 

PIB has his own opinion, but I assure it doesn't make mine wrong and his right or vice versa. 



[/quote]

Better yet how is his post relevant at all, to the OP's question. The 18' will in fact ride better than the 16' why because it has 2 extra feet and can span the sea's better.

Now as to whether or not the 16' or 18' rides good in chop is another question that was not asked. And depend on one's defintion of ride.

OP there have been a lot of Shadow cast sold within very few months of purchase & that is typically for 2 reasons 1) poor quality (Don't think that's the problem here) or People buy on Hype and emotion to find out they bought the wrong boat. Please wet test both the 16' & 18' in a choppy condition to see if it's to your standard. As well as any other boat you are thinking about purchasing, and test's you want to see 1st hand IE draft, speed, handling, Stability, etc etc.

I am not a fan of the SC as I think it serves no purpose for its price point nor is it the best value around, I can do anything in a 1642 Jon boat for $$$ less or other boats that are being built. But if it's the boat for you then don't let negativity from others persuade you form purchasing it. Just as don't let someone's hype/BS convince you to purchase it's your hard earned money be sure of what you spend it on. 

Tight lines  [/quote]


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Everyone has opinions.
Whike me and Creekrunner almost always agree, I will have to say if I lived in mosquito lagoon I would either be buying a shadowcast or a gladesman..
If I was in jax, lol no doubt I would have an aluminum skiff the way I bounce off of things... 
It all comes down to terrain and preference.
In my area (stuart) the perfect boat is without doubt an 18 egret
Different strokes for different folks


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2013)

Maybe in Jacksonville a Jon boat works, but sight casting for many Species in most of FL you might as well be fishing in your pool. You'll have at a least a 100 yard no,fish zone. 

I would take ANY Fiberglass/Wood Skiff over a tin can, but that's just my opinion.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> Maybe in Jacksonville a Jon boat works, but sight casting for many Species in most of FL you might as well be fishing in your pool. You'll have at a least a 100 yard no,fish zone.
> 
> I would take ANY Fiberglass/Wood Skiff over a tin can, but that's just my opinion.


Yep because no one catches fish in an Aluminum boats but in North FL, heck they don't even sell Jon boat south of North FL. LOL!

The Jon boat was an example, lots of fiberglass boats out there as well that will fit the bill, heck I don't even have an Aluminum boat I have a fiberglass skiff as well in north florida

My 1st post was not meant not bash the SC,  I stated the 18 will ride better than the 16', I didn't say if it rode good or bad I said it's a matter of one's definition of ride. I actually think it rides pretty good, just not for what it cost at the end of the day. 

I said I don't think it's the best value around and before I pay 4k for an SC16 hull only I would buy a Jon boat.  That is my opinion!

I said for the OP to test it and see if it's for him and if it is buy one!  

I'm done defending a rational post that gave the OP the right answer to test the skiff and buy off his on real world experience that fits his needs.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> > Maybe in Jacksonville a Jon boat works, but sight casting for many Species in most of FL you might as well be fishing in your pool. You'll have at a least a 100 yard no,fish zone.
> >
> > I would take ANY Fiberglass/Wood Skiff over a tin can, but that's just my opinion.
> 
> ...



My whole argument is that you stated that a Shadowcast serves no purpose. That is complete BS. The Shadowcast has a purpose, and will out perform just about any other skiff in it's combined price range and class at it's intended purpose. 


The Shadowcast is a perfect skiff for the Everglades for most of the year. Spring through Fall it is ideal for the hardcore and weekend anglers. A guide on the other hand is going to need more space to accomodate clients, and that's when I would go with a larger vessel.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> Look, both ShadowCast models are the BEST BANG for the buck out there now. The reason there are a lot of these for sale is that the tunnel SUCKS. At a minimum they all need to have a 4 blade cupped prop. Many who know a lot about tunnels say it's a poor design (16 & 18), but Mel refuses to make a non tunnel version which would make the skiff so much better.


I have issue with your comment "At a minimum they all need to have a 4 blade cupped prop." To use the boat you referenced in your previous post I had a 17T with a 3 blade prop which out performed 4 blade props. 

Folks, don't believe "internet experts" go to true expert… the prop manufacture. 

Secondly It's hard to understand how you can make the comment about how a non tunnel version would make the skiff better. You admitted that you have no time on the water with the boat. Is your sense of perception is so acute that by simply looking at pictures your able to hypothesis every element of hydrodynamics surrounding a hull shape and from that can synthesis operational characteristics? Or is this the "many" you allude to above? 



> I'm really sick of this discussion as a lot of you are to, wait until the ECC Glide is finished in the next month or 2. The Skiff is just 4" narrower then a Caimen, but more stable. Will be offered to two versions with the base @ 8K or so for the Hull. 20hp-40hp, will use 15" and 20" shaft motors, choice of Ramlin or continental trailer


As are we with your crap. Go sell your snake oil somewhere else. 

Again you make claims which are impossible to objectively quantify regarding stability yet have not been on either boat. Must be that sixth sense only you posses… amazing!

The OP did not ask about the ECC skiff, (you a shill for him now?) the OP simply asked for differences between two models within a manufactures line.



> Since the Glide is going to be priced very close to the ShadowCast 18' with cap I would say ECC is going to take a nice chunk of that market.


This is about the only statement which can be objectively quantified. It would be very interesting to price out the two skiffs as exactly matching as possible (shouldn't be too hard as neither are mass produced thus can be completely customized) then report back with to cost.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

The price of the Glide is going to be the same price range as the Copperhead. That's what Kevin told me personally. A copperhead hull starts at 8k range. Therefore, out of the Shadowcast price range.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

iMacattack....... [smiley=bravo.gif]


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## kamakuras (Feb 23, 2012)

I saw someone pulling a 18 around Pompano Beach. Can't wait to see it close up at the ramp. 

The 16 rides excellent head on or with chop. Sideways it's wet and a little squirrelly in bigger stuff. Still never felt in danger and I don't even have a bilge pump in mine. I definitely slow down in a bigger sideways chop and take my time. It is a great boat for areas like the bights in the Glades and Mosquito Lagoon type skinny environments. I wouldn't even think of trying to cross Whitewater Bay in one on a day like last Sunday, however. It is an awesome little boat and fun as hell to operate and fish out of.


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## boat123 (Apr 26, 2012)

You people  ====> [smiley=greenchainsaw.gif] <==== This forum.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2013)

> > Look, both ShadowCast models are the BEST BANG for the buck out there now. The reason there are a lot of these for sale is that the tunnel SUCKS. At a minimum they all need to have a 4 blade cupped prop. Many who know a lot about tunnels say it's a poor design (16 & 18), but Mel refuses to make a non tunnel version which would make the skiff so much better.
> 
> 
> I have issue with your comment "At a minimum they all need to have a 4 blade cupped prop." To use the boat you referenced in your previous post I had a 17T with a 3 blade prop which out performed 4 blade props.
> ...


* You had a 17T which has a notched transom and sponsons. The better performing 3 blade over the 4 blade gave you more speed, while worse holeshot, blowouts and handling ability. Since the ShadowCast does not have the positives of the sponsons the 4 blade has worked well for a bunch of owners some who have called me as they were fed up with the tunnel and Mel's lack of Help. All the Experts say it's difficult to dial in a tunnel as performance props, jack plates, transom pods and $400 compression plates may be needed and yet Mel just clamps on the new motor with stock prop and claims it runs perfect every time. That just doesn't add up.

*Yes, I have been on a couple SC 16, but not on the 18'.

* Yes, my perception and knowledge is excellent from talking many times with Areo Marine(who makes tunnel software), Marine Engineers, Flatscat, Shallow Sport and New Water Boakworks all in TX and when it comes to tunnel design there is no one better. Bauer Props and Ken @ PropGods. 

I don't just spew my opinion about crap on here. When I'm interested in a subject I go all in looking for the Best info I can find from as many Experts as I can find. If you don't agree with my statements then I guess you'll have to take them up with all the above as they gave me this info.

* In 2012 I know personally of five Older HB Skiffs that were "restored" all had tunnels and all were filled in. Three were done at HB. HB, ECC, Beavertail and others have a tunnel option in most of their Skiffs and non have their Hull altered as the "Hydrodynamics" don't change. 

There are more then 20 different tunnel designs being used in production boats( most in TX ) and yet those same Experts recommend against a tunnel as they are very hard to fine tune and of course the 1 Positive vs. 8 Negatives, but they told me " In TX we all have tunnels to run long distances in shallow water at the cost of all the negatives because you might as will just fish off the dock if you don't have one"

I would say that both ShadowCast Skiffs would perform Night and Day without a tunnel when factoring all the above info. 1st time Skiff Owners find later that in order for their New Skiff to perform well there looking at prop testing, jack plates, tabs, CMC units, compression plates etc....for a feature (tunnel) that most owners say was never a factor in buying a ShadowCast. So they Deal, add the performance items or just sell it.

As far as the ECC glide goes I never started the thread, but like most excited as it will take part of the market that Ankona has been alone in. So ECC, IPB are more choices which is what we all want in every product. 

As for "snake oil Shills" I have never received a Dime from any manufactures and I own an Ankona.  : Look at the people who are making money from Ankona trying to sell them. Every time a new person starts a thread asking about Ankona while getting help from the regular people Jon will swoop in and it then goes completely PM between the two instead of continuing in the "open" thread for anyone's input. It happens every time there is a buyer, but never when current owners have questions or problems. Like a car salesmen or most any retail the only inventive is the next Buyer.

Looking forward to more Skull Island, ECC, Pelican, IPB etc...and less rehashed debates on ShadowCasts and Ankona in general. 


*The End!*


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

You know nothing about my 17T and it's setup or performance. Other than holeshot I have no blowout or handling abilities. Done period end of conversation.

I have reviewed all public posts regarding performance and I do not see anywhere where Mel claims " clamps on the new motor with stock prop and claims it runs perfect every time". Quite the oposite in fact. Next time get your facts straight before you go rambling...

This is the closest...

http://www.skinnyskiff.com/forums/topic/shadowcast-18/



> Its balanced out well with no stern squat even with the aggressive tunnel design. Preliminary GPS numbers with the 20 by myself had me cruising at 18-20 mph with top end at 24.5, standard aluminum prop. We’ll have to spend some time with the prop tests.


A properly propped a tunnel hull does not "need" all these extras. However with that siad, just as with non-tunnel hull skiffs there are components which can be added to enhance the performance of any boat. There will be trade-offs though. Risk vs reward.

I always took it up with experts and still do regularly... it's a much higher level of  conversation than with you. 

HB designed a tunnel to fit a market need not a hull. It performed ok but not great. BTW this is from the expert not me. So your analogy broken. A drop in tunnel into an existing design will never perform as optimized as one designed from the start to be a tunnel skiff. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

Choices are excellent and I am excited to see IPB and ECC market an affordable skiff. I've been saying this for years we need more choices. The place to discuss this is in a thread about those skiffs. NOT one which is asking the difference between two skiffs within a single manufactures line. You are nothing but a huge train wreck. How many time have I banned you now? Take the hint.

*The End!*


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