# Rediculous pricing on used flats boats



## mandell1jz (Jun 2, 2011)

I can’t understand the pricing that people ask on this forum for flats boats that are 10 plus years old and motors as well.Boats and cars are usually the worst investments that is typically why you can pickup an older lexus with low miles at a reasonable price where your middle to higher end flats boats are rediculous.Is there anyone else who feels the same way.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

mandell1jz said:


> rediculous


Agreed! 



mandell1jz said:


> Is there anyone else who feels the same way.


No.


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## GG34 (May 2, 2014)

This should be fun


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## tjtfishon (Feb 9, 2016)

new flats boats are even more insane....yet more people are on the water than ever. Long stretch of a good economy I guess.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Probably should have put this in the general discussion section,on a side note I have an 1995 action craft for sale for $55,000.00 pm me if interested.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

Seems like a pretty generic comment... are you talking about specific ads?

I think it is well known, even to new guys like me, that HB and other "tier 1" manufacturers make skiffs that hold value. Also, 10 year old motors that have been maintained also hold significant value (again, pointed out to me recently)

This is no different than the market for Jeep Wranglers. They depreciate a certain amount, but generally hold value very well regardless of age and miles.


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## RobA (Aug 21, 2015)

Boat financing became easier = higher prices for new boats = higher prices for used boats


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

so get something in your price range and fix it up. That's what I did.


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## mandell1jz (Jun 2, 2011)

KurtActual said:


> Seems like a pretty generic comment... are you talking about specific ads?
> 
> I think it is well known, even to new guys like me, that HB and other "tier 1" manufacturers make skiffs that hold value. Also, 10 year old motors that have been maintained also hold significant value (again, pointed out to me recently)
> 
> This is no different than the market for Jeep Wranglers. They depreciate a certain amount, but generally hold value very well regardless of age and miles.


Good point however I can pick up an older Lexus ls460 with low miles under 40k miles which has a price tag in the upper 60k range for about 20k those motors last 250k if properly maintained and are far more reliable than a Jeep Wrangler.


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## mandell1jz (Jun 2, 2011)

devrep said:


> so get something in your price range and fix it up. That's what I did.


Don’t want a project that’s going to cost me more in the long run and take lots of time


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## mandell1jz (Jun 2, 2011)

RobA said:


> Boat financing became easier = higher prices for new boats = higher prices for used boats


Great point


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## brianBFD (Oct 25, 2017)

Just to add to tjtfishon's comment about there being more people on the water. Some of the newer folks fishing inshore comes from the screwed up snapper and reef fish seasons and limits. I I'm not the only one that sold their offshore boat due to it not being worth the expense for the limited number of days it can be used. I've always had some sort of skiff to fish inshore even when I mostly fished offshore.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Probably should have put this in the general discussion section,on a side note I have an 1995 action craft for sale for $55,000.00 pm me if interested.


Will you take $75,000.00 for it?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Pole Position said:


> Will you take $75,000.00 for it?


Come and get it but its gotta be cash 20 dollar bills.


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## CodyW (Jan 26, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Probably should have put this in the general discussion section,on a side note I have an 1995 action craft for sale for $55,000.00 pm me if interested.


Is it the wavy deck edition?


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Come and get it but its gotta be cash 20 dollar bills.


It might take me a week to print out that much money as my printer has been acting up. Would you consider an out-of-state, two party check w/ insufficient funds?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

CodyW said:


> Is it the wavy deck edition?


It can be I will see it George is available at his shop to do that for you.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Pole Position said:


> It might take me a week to print out that much money as my printer has been acting up. Would you consider an out-of-state, two party check w/ insufficient funds?


Sure boat is immaculate I will ship to you upon your checks arrival.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

mandell1jz said:


> Good point however I can pick up an older Lexus ls460 with low miles under 40k miles which has a price tag in the upper 60k range for about 20k those motors last 250k if properly maintained and are far more reliable than a Jeep Wrangler.


I am not sure I understand your comment. You're comparing a luxury land yacht to an actual off-road worthy vehicle. Apples and oranges. Not to digress too far, but proper maintenance on a Jeep Wrangler is cheaper than a Lexus, and the end result will be an equally reliable vehicle assuming neither are lemons.

My point was that there is constant demand for Wranglers, and they keep a high resale value because the excel at their intended purpose. Skiffs, and well made skiffs at that, are the same. They have one general purpose, and they excel at it. If demand is high, and supply cannot keep up, then used skiffs will be sold for a price you might deem to be too high.


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## GG34 (May 2, 2014)

Capitalism.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

mandell1jz said:


> Don’t want a project that’s going to cost me more in the long run and take lots of time


you find an older boat with no wood in good shape with a good reputation, install a new motor and rewire. not much more to go wrong. Fraction of the cost. Or you pay the money or get a cheaper boat new. Not much else you can do.


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## Rustyrotor (Nov 7, 2017)

Oh yeah. Got a whisky in my hand hoping it’ll help my sticker shock. Jeez louise. Almost ready to bag it. Get a jon, and cast farther.

My very custom and very ratty MGB has been mistaken for an early Ferrari.
You know, the ones that go for 6 mill at auction.

Will trade for flats skiff.

Unscientific, but it seems to me the market is very soft.
Boats I was looking at two months ago, not dogs as far as I can tell, 
still unsold. So what gives. 

“Install a new motor and rewire”
Words to live by. Applies to the MG as well.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

If I had the money in cash I would by one of the older hells bays in a minute just don't like payments.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

If it makes you feel any worse, I had someone offer to buy my skiff for 20% more than I paid for it, before I even took delivery. '

If it's worth noting that the skiff market is ridiculous, it's also worth nothing that the entire sport fishing industry is also _ridiculous._ An Orvis H3 is EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS.


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## mandell1jz (Jun 2, 2011)

KurtActual said:


> I am not sure I understand your comment. You're comparing a luxury land yacht to an actual off-road worthy vehicle. Apples and oranges. Not to digress too far, but proper maintenance on a Jeep Wrangler is cheaper than a Lexus, and the end result will be an equally reliable vehicle assuming neither are lemons.
> 
> My point was that there is constant demand for Wranglers, and they keep a high resale value because the excel at their intended purpose. Skiffs, and well made skiffs at that, are the same. They have one general purpose, and they excel at it. If demand is high, and supply cannot keep up, then used skiffs will be sold for a price you might deem to be too high.


I hear your point about supply and demand as far as lexus and Jeep lexus will require less maintenance in my opinion and have less issues.the Wrangler is the only Jeep product that actually holds its value unlike lexus which most of there products as well as Toyota are very dependable.I guess my delema is do I go with an older wrangler with high miles or go with a newer Fj cruiser with lower miles or do I go with an older Maverick hpxv/older motor Dolphin Superskiff/older motor or go with a newer Boat builder and newer motor ie Beavertail micro,eastcape glide,Ankona copperhead salt marsh heron.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> If it makes you feel any worse, I had someone offer to buy my skiff for 20% more than I paid for it, before I even took delivery. '
> 
> If it's worth noting that the skiff market is ridiculous, it's also worth nothing that the entire sport fishing industry is also _ridiculous._ An Orvis H3 is EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS.


Yes once you open the fly fishing door money goes out the window but that's what happens with addictions.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Sure boat is immaculate I will ship to you upon your checks arrival.


And as a bonus he can wire 10k to a 3rd world country and get back 10x that amount just days later.


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## Unplugged (Oct 19, 2016)

Kurt!ur dead on.They have specific purpose and they do it well.I have a 15' maverick hpxv.o.07.it is in perfect shape.15k for it.Most people don't get it but,the ones that do understand the price.


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## Unplugged (Oct 19, 2016)

BTW,Backcountry,ur hilarious!


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

It’s simple, Supply and Demand. Older Whipray for example, high demand with limited supply keeps prices up.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

The most sophisticated boat manufacturer probably uses less than one percent of the technology, R&D, tooling that the least sophisticated car manufacturer uses to build anything. So your getting a lot more for your buck when you buy a car., even a used one. The truth is that boat building is not very sophisticated at all. Where does a boat go from being a 30k to being a 65k boat???


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## Unplugged (Oct 19, 2016)

Backcountry,are you in Wilmington?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Unplugged said:


> Backcountry,are you in Wilmington?


Ft Myers FL, do believe we have pm'd whenever you came down to Charlotte Harbor. Lifetime resident of South West Florida consider myself pretty lucky to have grown up down here even though I wish it would have been around 100 years earlier but such is life.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

The original poster is right about the high prices some older premium skiffs can sell for... It might help to remember that we're not talking family boats or work boats here - we're talking about expensive toys for grown up boys... that actually do the task they're specifically designed for... Another item to remember is that new ones are even more money (with the well known caveat that anyone who buys and properly cares for one of these small used marvels will actually be able to get most of their money back when they finally re-sell it.... something that car sellers would really like to be able to count on...

I've been around long enough to remember when there were hardly any poling skiffs around - and the early ones were far from perfect. This from a guy who actually poles the same skiff he's had for almost 30 years -and it's not exactly a microskiff at all (1988 Maverick XL that I bought from Scott un-rigged all those years ago...) -but it does qualify as a work boat...

In short I have the perfect solution for those having a real problem with used micros being so expensive (at least a few of them...)... It's simply this - if sticker shock has you by the short hairs... quick - don't buy one.


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## KnotHome (Jul 21, 2009)

When skiff manufacturers have a year long wait list, it's going to drive up the price of used models. No one is waiting months on end for a Lexus, and although the Lexus will run in spit, it has a hard time in those deep spots.
The idea that boats don't have a crap ton of R&D is misinformed. Car manufacturers also have the advantage of a lot more automation to meet demand than boat makers. The fit& finish (sophistication you're not seeing), reputation, and desirability are where boats are making that $30k leap Alex.
For those wondering, yes the prices of used boats are so diculous they're REdiculous!


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## Boneheaded (Oct 4, 2017)

When you spend 10-15k on a 20yr old skiff with a 20yr old motor that needs another few thousand worth of rigging to have “right” which could take as long as a new build, you really have to stop and ask yourself, is it worth spending a little more, waiting a little longer to have a new boat? There’s so many new options out there. But if the price is right on that mirage or super skiff, forget everything I just said.


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

Here is my answer.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Why all the justification? Skiffs are expensive, the end. So are Rolex watches and Porsches.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

Some(most) of the best skiffs out there came from guys that never took a class in naval engineering. Their R&D dept was a garage and most calculations were done with a grinder, a jigsaw, a tape measure and a black marker. A perfect example would be the Whipray and the Superskiff. ... Unless your hal chittum incorporating BS F16 technology into a skiff, you really dont have a lot of r&d when your building a 17' flat or v bottom fiberglass boat. .....The only part of a boat that is unique to a manufacturer, in almost all cases, is the shape of the hull, and probably not much different than the next guy. Once thats out of your "R&D" dept you can only lay it up a few different ways(vaccum, hand lay up etc. polyester or vinylester??). Every one uses the same components... steering systems, rigging, and hardware, it all probably comes from Lewis or Donavans not from the R&D dept. The motor comes in a crate, 4 bolts and its on. Their is a reason why your going to need a few billion if you want to start your own car company..you can start building your own skiffs with a few thousand. I don't believe you need to spend $70k on a 17' boat to get a good boat. A good boat builder doesnt charge you $35k extra for "fit and finish"


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

mandell1jz said:


> I can’t understand the pricing that people ask on this forum for flats boats that are 10 plus years old and motors as well.Boats and cars are usually the worst investments that is typically why you can pickup an older lexus with low miles at a reasonable price where your middle to higher end flats boats are rediculous.Is there anyone else who feels the same way.


Please go research classic car and motorcycle pricing. While you are at it, go research prices on older Boston Whalers and Chris Craft boats.

Quality builds demand high price and resale value. Then there is the love of the sport and the hobby. Anyone that knows boat ownership knows it isn't the greatest investment around, but the return is priceless. I can tell by your question that you lack this experience. Lexus? Really?


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## Capt Crunch (Jul 15, 2016)

Yep...just as summer is almost over along comes IRMA, then insurance checks and the replacement boat.


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## Gordon Johnson (Jan 13, 2017)

Kinda like spending 40.00 on a yeti bucket.


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## Cliff (Oct 13, 2016)

A boat, car or anything else is worth what someone is wiling to pay. No need to complain about what people are asking for their used boats-if there is a complaint (and I don't think there is) it should go to the people who are willing to pay the price. I suspect there are many people on this forum that value getting a couple inches skinnier and staying a little bit drier. This value translates into willingness to pay and therefore high used and new boat prices. Ahh-the free market at work.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

sweat equity.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Stop worrying about what other people spend their money on.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

I won't buy a Lexus because Hal says they're crap.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

Wait for the next "Down Turn" Pennies in the dollar ...


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

brianBFD said:


> Some of the newer folks fishing inshore comes from the screwed up snapper and reef fish seasons and limits. I I'm not the only one that sold their offshore boat due to it not being worth the expense for the limited number of days it can be used.


This...absolutely.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

noeettica said:


> Wait for the next "Down Turn" Pennies in the dollar ...


Right. I wasn’t in the skiff market in 2009 to 2013, but I hear skiffs were very reasonably priced. Ultimately, these are totally discretionary assets for most buyers. The guides are an exception, but skiffs are luxury items for the rest of us.

Kayaks are cheaper.


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

Wawawawawa.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

There are multiple Mitzi skiffs to be found for under $10k.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

Its inflation
I try to go to MIBS and FLIBS each year and have since I was a kid
Every year I see 10-20% steady increase

A clear example of a boat that they dont make anymore is the 21 contender
I love watching the market on that boat
As soon as someone lists a hull that is newer than 2010 they all come out of the woodwork from the early 90s asking for 30+k
My dads boat was a 2012 21 contender that he sold with a 2012 f200 and it had bottom paint.
The boat just sold for about 8k more than he sold it for. (The new owner repowered with a suzuki 300 and had the bottom paint removed).

Personally I like to buy a boat that has already depreciated and do a little bit of work to bring it up to my standards


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

mandell1jz said:


> I can’t understand the pricing that people ask on this forum for flats boats that are 10 plus years old and motors as well.Boats and cars are usually the worst investments that is typically why you can pickup an older lexus with low miles at a reasonable price where your middle to higher end flats boats are rediculous.Is there anyone else who feels the same way.


1) Considering this site is known for low balling tire kickers that aren't shy to disrespect a seller's thread with BS responses I think the prices on this forum are intentionally inflated. They even made a rule against it, but you'll still see it in the "Not Mine" posts.

2) The majority of luxury cars are leased based on ridiculously high residual values to keep monthly payments low and take market share. Those cars are typically turned in because of that high residual, and then auctioned back to dealers. From there the market and banks decides what they are worth. The volume of cars being bought and sold supports lower pricing and margins. None of this is true for flats boat sales, and you will never see a BoatMax with no haggle pricing.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ccording-to-new-edmunds-report-300397551.html

3) As others have stated a flats boat is a luxury item. Many choose to keep their flats boat in the garage and leave their car in the driveway. Some have to because of HOA rules. But regardless most folks that can afford luxury items take care of their stuff, and thus the values stay up.

4) Flats boats don't really have any moving parts besides the hatch hinges to wear out. And engines will outlast the average recreational fisherman's lifetime usage with proper maintenance.

5) The legal definition of "Fair Market Value" is the Agreed Price between a "willing seller" and a "willing buyer". So some people are just more willing than others.

"Where there is will there is a way. Where there is no will there is an excuse."


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

If you want my 03 Whipray, refurbed by Glasser, 2015 tohatsu, 50/4, 2017 rolls aluminum, the price is 38k. Go cry me a river.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Redickless


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

Dats right brotatochip.


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## Seeing Spots (Oct 30, 2016)

mandell1jz said:


> Good point however I can pick up an older Lexus ls460 with low miles under 40k miles which has a price tag in the upper 60k range for about 20k those motors last 250k if properly maintained and are far more reliable than a Jeep Wrangler.


Not all boats are built the same just like not all cars, I’m not a Lexus fan it’s just a overprice Toyota, with that said your buying the prestige and the image. Hell I have a Rolex and Seiko keeps better time. It’s the image and quality, it’s the total package of what it is your putting value in. A Mitzi skiff is not a Hells Bay and a Lexus is not a Toyota(yes it is). And another thing, what does that 40,000 miles on that lexus equate to? Highway or city driving , even if you cut that in half your still taking about hours of hard use. Average boaters use 50 hours a year give or it take. Let’s move it up and that 10 year old boat has 1000 hours on it. Is that the same use as your 40000 mile car? Owing a high end boats also means that person usually has $$$$$, they don’t have to sell it. It was covered, garage kept, waxed and the maintenance/repairs were done top notch. They probably hardly used it because that have 3 boats. One more note, if you can’t afford it you will not be able to take care of it. I have a car that a brake job costs $1500, sometimes I question if I really need it. I love that car and that’s the maintenance that has to be done so I do it. I have seen 100’s of boats in those ranges and if you don’t take care of your shit it’s worthless... if you do.. than the value is in what someone is willing to pay.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

I know from personal experience that the market for classic Hells Bays is pretty soft & not what it was 2-3 years ago.

You'll see really nice Hells Bay from the great years (1999-2002) sitting in the classified section for weeks/months with no activity. Before I decided to sell my 17.8, I had numerous offers in the past 3 years from MS members and others for some crazy money. This summer, when it finally came time to sell, the offers were few and far between and I ended up getting $4k-$5k less than I could have years before...I was pretty surprised...

I think the availability of some really nice _NEW_ mid-priced skiffs (Beavertail, Cayo & East Cape) has def. had an impact on the previously high $ sales on "classic" used skiffs.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

And now you have quality welded hulls made by Xtreme Boats in Bonifay for prices that nip at the heels of Chop strand Hulls !!! LoL ...


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

Sometimes prices may reflect a desire to NOT sell.


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## Harlieb3 (Dec 16, 2013)

Open and close a hatch on a HB and do the same on lesser priced boats. Does it make it catch more fish? Maybe not but it is an investment in quality and technology. I did not buy new but I did make a sound investment.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

Harlieb3 said:


> Open and close a hatch on a HB and do the same on lesser priced boats. Does it make it catch more fish? Maybe not but it is an investment in quality and technology. I did not buy new but I did make a sound investment.


The 27' hells bay is known as one of the worst riding hulls in that size
I'll say the quality is there but just because it bares the hells bay name doesnt mean its the best boat for the job or that it will be highly desirable


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

It's not really fair to use workmanship as a gauge for for hull design. You can have a shit design but the boat is solid and put together with great attention to detail. Conversely you can have a rock solid design but nobody bothered to measure twice before they cut. You end up with a boat that performs excellent but all the hatches rattle, the stringers are coming lose, or the deck doesn't fit like it's supposed to. I've owned the latter of the two boats, and I would have rather owned the boat that didn't quite perform as well as the others but it was built to last.

When you're buying a boat you really need to think about how much you're willing to spend to meet your requirements. It just so happens that people are willing to spend a bunch of cash to get the best of both worlds. 

Complaining about the price of skiffs is like sitting in your Miata in the parking lot of a Porsche Owners Club track day and crying over all the dentists who spend 6 figures on 30 year old air cooled Porsches. I mean, the Miata is just as fun to drive around the track, right?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Harlieb3 said:


> Open and close a hatch on a HB and do the same on lesser priced boats. Does it make it catch more fish? Maybe not but it is an investment in quality and technology. I did not buy new but I did make a sound investment.


Plus you get a gas gauge is made from the best wood around comes of the money tree.


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## RG Air (Nov 10, 2015)

I sleep in a racecar


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

I don’t care what boat you buy it is never an investment unless you make a living with it(Fishing Guide). A boat is a discretionary consumer product. Again it’s simple, just like other discretionary consumer products, prices are determined by consumers wants and needs; supply and demand; and the competitive market place. Prices are high because there is a lots of demand right now. Just like a stock goes up when there is more buyers than sellers.


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## brianBFD (Oct 25, 2017)

Well, this straight forward no frills explanation should kill the thread.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

fjmaverick said:


> The 27' hells bay is known as one of the worst riding hulls in that size
> I'll say the quality is there but just because it bares the hells bay name doesnt mean its the best boat for the job or that it will be highly desirable


But the 21 Cape Sable might be one of the best/most thought out 21 footers in its class..


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

One thing to keep in mind is cars are cranked out on an automated assembly line by the thousands each year.

The expensive used skiffs you mentioned are built by hand, most of which are 100% made specific to a customers order. Some of these top tier builders may not make more than 100 boats a year. I have spoken to one builder and they know their production schedule and exactly how many boats they need to build to run their business at an ideal level.

If you go on Craigslist and look for a used Lexus you will probably have hundreds to choose from over a 6 month period and if you can't find what you want just look in a different city. You can't do that with a high end skiff. You might have the luxury of having 5 or 10 that show up used in that same time period for the whole state. Once your search moves outside of FL that availability goes down even more.


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

My 03 Whipray is still 38


MariettaMike said:


> 1) Considering this site is known for low balling tire kickers that aren't shy to disrespect a seller's thread with BS responses I think the prices on this forum are intentionally inflated. They even made a rule against it, but you'll still see it in the "Not Mine" posts.
> 
> 2) The majority of luxury cars are leased based on ridiculously high residual values to keep monthly payments low and take market share. Those cars are typically turned in because of that high residual, and then auctioned back to dealers. From there the market and banks decides what they are worth. The volume of cars being bought and sold supports lower pricing and margins. None of this is true for flats boat sales, and you will never see a BoatMax with no haggle pricing.
> 
> ...


Mike, you want to come over Jan 20th to fish the RedFly tournament? It can be fished single or as a team. Captains meeting and registration the morning of tournament. We can fish my Whip.


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

jmrodandgun said:


> It's not really fair to use workmanship as a gauge for for hull design. You can have a shit design but the boat is solid and put together with great attention to detail. Conversely you can have a rock solid design but nobody bothered to measure twice before they cut. You end up with a boat that performs excellent but all the hatches rattle, the stringers are coming lose, or the deck doesn't fit like it's supposed to. I've owned the latter of the two boats, and I would have rather owned the boat that didn't quite perform as well as the others but it was built to last.
> 
> When you're buying a boat you really need to think about how much you're willing to spend to meet your requirements. It just so happens that people are willing to spend a bunch of cash to get the best of both worlds.
> 
> Complaining about the price of skiffs is like sitting in your Miata in the parking lot of a Porsche Owners Club track day and crying over all the dentists who spend 6 figures on 30 year old air cooled Porsches. I mean, the Miata is just as fun to drive around the track, right?


Ha. Miata versus an 89 air-cooled 911, especially the turbo? Nah.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

flytyn said:


> Mike, you want to come over Jan 20th to fish the RedFly tournament


Sure. Looking forward to it.


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

It'll probably be in the 30s that day, but what the heck.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

Did you say investment?? Is your boat made of gold?


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I have to disagree that wealthy people necessarily take good care of their stuff. I know some who get home late from fishing and not even rinse the boat or trailer cause they don't have someone around at that time of night to do it for them and let them sit in the sun uncovered cause they really don't care. My wealthy boss does not take care of his expensive cars, he just gets a new one every year or 2. He has them detailed all the time but is lax on maint because it takes up his time. I'm not painting everyone with this brush btw but more than you might think.


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## JTFD (Dec 30, 2015)

classic skiffs are cool, like classic cars, the good ones hold their value and one day will go up in value with proper care and maintenance. Take a ride on one and you'll realize why.


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## Rick88 (Apr 15, 2016)

I've made money on every skiff I've owned.......


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## salt_fly (Apr 23, 2012)

jmrodandgun said:


> It's not really fair to use workmanship as a gauge for for hull design. You can have a shit design but the boat is solid and put together with great attention to detail. Conversely you can have a rock solid design but nobody bothered to measure twice before they cut. You end up with a boat that performs excellent but all the hatches rattle, the stringers are coming lose, or the deck doesn't fit like it's supposed to. I've owned the latter of the two boats, and I would have rather owned the boat that didn't quite perform as well as the others but it was built to last.
> 
> When you're buying a boat you really need to think about how much you're willing to spend to meet your requirements. It just so happens that people are willing to spend a bunch of cash to get the best of both worlds.
> 
> Complaining about the price of skiffs is like sitting in your Miata in the parking lot of a Porsche Owners Club track day and crying over all the dentists who spend 6 figures on 30 year old air cooled Porsches. I mean, the Miata is just as fun to drive around the track, right?


Yeah, but the dentists get all the chicks.


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## squeezer1 (Nov 22, 2012)

Anything worth doing has associated cost. I live in Pennsylvania. I searched for 6 years before I found a boat I could afford. I drove from PA to Islamorada and back in three days to buy my boat. It all cost me money, but you bet your bottom I’d do it again. I was very lucky, and picked up hull #8 East Cape Caimen. If you think boats are too expensive, build your own. I’d be willing to bet after that build, you would look at it a bit differently. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.


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## Harlieb3 (Dec 16, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Plus you get a gas gauge is made from the best wood around comes of the money tree.


and it never fails


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## Harlieb3 (Dec 16, 2013)

fjmaverick said:


> The 27' hells bay is known as one of the worst riding hulls in that size
> I'll say the quality is there but just because it bares the hells bay name doesnt mean its the best boat for the job or that it will be highly desirable


I didn’t buy a 27, I bough a Marquesa


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Harlieb3 said:


> and it never fails


Just messing with you hb guys it's actually the most reliable gauge there is out there.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

Harlieb3 said:


> I didn’t buy a 27, I bough a Marquesa


Im aware of the boat in your signature thank you. I think you missed the point.


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## DeepSouthFly (Sep 7, 2016)

el9surf said:


> One thing to keep in mind is cars are cranked out on an automated assembly line by the thousands each year.
> 
> The expensive used skiffs you mentioned are built by hand, most of which are 100% made specific to a customers order. Some of these top tier builders may not make more than 100 boats a year. I have spoken to one builder and they know their production schedule and exactly how many boats they need to build to run their business at an ideal level.
> 
> If you go on Craigslist and look for a used Lexus you will probably have hundreds to choose from over a 6 month period and if you can't find what you want just look in a different city. You can't do that with a high end skiff. You might have the luxury of having 5 or 10 that show up used in that same time period for the whole state. Once your search moves outside of FL that availability goes down even more.


Took the words right out of my mouth. You can't compare an assembly line built vehicle to hand built top tier or even middle tier skiffs. Horrible comparison.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

DeepSouthFly said:


> Took the words right out of my mouth. You can't compare an assembly line built vehicle to hand built top tier or even middle tier skiffs. Horrible comparison.


Some of the quality control problems they show from tesla are insane. I cant believe they let that stuff out of the factory.


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## DeepSouthFly (Sep 7, 2016)

That's what happens when you build so many vehicles in a year. So many electronics and computers and all that jazz in vehicles now. Damn heated steering wheels it's crazy. Recalls will always happen when a company is more worried about how many they build/sell in a year rather then quality and "fit and finish" if that's what it would be called in the car world. I'm not comparing HB or top tier brands to a Bentley, but it takes 8 weeks and 500 man hours (not machine) to build one and they cost 300k. The old way of building cars or boats is the expensive way to build them these days because there is more care and perfection put into building these types of things.


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## DeepSouthFly (Sep 7, 2016)

well i take that back about tesla. I don't think they are building many cars a year are they? don't know much about them.


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## DeepSouthFly (Sep 7, 2016)

I was mainly talking about big car companies in general.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

DeepSouthFly said:


> well i take that back about tesla. I don't think they are building many cars a year are they? don't know much about them.


Tesla is running into problems because of the model 3 and the 518,000 car order
Tesla did not allow for financing the car and people only needed to provide a deposit for tesla to consider it an order. 63,000 have canceled but tesla still received a valuation that took the deposits as committed orders.

Model 3 is a lower price point and they are trying to double and quadruple production
5000/week by end of 2017
10000/week by end of 2018


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

mandell1jz said:


> I can’t understand the pricing that people ask on this forum for flats boats that are 10 plus years old and motors as well.Boats and cars are usually the worst investments that is typically why you can pickup an older lexus with low miles at a reasonable price where your middle to higher end flats boats are rediculous.Is there anyone else who feels the same way.


People cannot answer the question "is this a good boat?". they just don't know how boats are built. They substitute it with "do other people like this boat?" Its just what humans do. 

People only see what they want to see and only believe what they want to believe. Everything else is fake news.


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## HBFanatic (Dec 2, 2016)

Str8-Six said:


> It’s simple, Supply and Demand. Older Whipray for example, high demand with limited supply keeps prices up.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Probably should have put this in the general discussion section,on a side note I have an 1995 action craft for sale for $55,000.00 pm me if interested.


Mines a 2014 AC, I’ll sell it for 28.5k!


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## Ruddy Duck LA (Jun 23, 2017)

Used prices are in step with the rediculous new prices.

Add a premium for availability today rather than xxxx months out depending on your manufacturer of choice.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Godzuki86 said:


> Mines a 2014 AC, I’ll sell it for 28.5k!


That's because it's not vintage


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

Ruddy Duck LA said:


> Used prices are in step with the rediculous new prices.
> 
> Add a premium for availability today rather than xxxx months out depending on your manufacturer of choice.


I dont see that as much of an impact as on bigger center consoles


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

Boats take alot of time to build, you'll never understand until you build one yourself. Lol the 500 man hours to build a bentley that was mentioned earlier is what you would have in a stitch and glue hull after just the outside is built, faired and painted, not even started on the inside lol
Now all the time is spent building plugs and molds, not only for hulls, but liners, hatch liners, decks , everything. Once all the molds are done its pretty quick work building a boat. Ironically, because of that it takes more time to build a liner-less boat with a lower level of fit and finish than a fully finished boat that looks better. Personally i'll take the liner -less hull any day of the week, stronger and lighter. At the end of the day these skiffs were built and fine tuned for a specific purpose. TO CATCH FISH, not win beauty awards


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

I don’t consider sea hunt top tier but they have a process that they claim produces 8 finished boats a day. I dont know what the start to finish time is but thats a lot of boats.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

2014 Hell’s Bay Boatworks Waterman 18 side console. Ice Blue Cap, Matterhorn White Hull, keel guard, 3 bank TM setup, LED lights everywhere.
2014 Yamaha F70
2014 RamLin Deluxe Trailer (stainless cross members & removable tongue)
2016 MinnKota iPilot 24V 80#
2017 Simrad GO9 XSE
Deluxe Custom Fitted Boat Cover
Custom bolt on Pro Trim size casting platform
Custom Poling Platform sissy bar with stripping bucket holder.

Located in Crystal River, FL
$39,000


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## WhenSkiffsFly (Nov 1, 2017)

500 hrs to build _part _of a stitch and glue skiff????????? you should find something else to do because that aint working out for you.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

WhenSkiffsFly said:


> 500 hrs to build _part _of a stitch and glue skiff????????? you should find something else to do because that aint working out for you.


Have you seen Cut Runner’s rebuilt Hobie on Florida Sportsman’s Dream Boat? It aired several months back. Bad ass skiff. Seems to be working quite well for him, at least from my perspective.


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

From no plans, and add time for real r&d (test running ane tweaking the hull)
Sure its plenty possible, depends on what your building and to what level.

My point is boat prices are going up because THE BUYERS WANT FIT AND FINISH, and that takes alot of man hours building plugs and molds for liners, every hatch and gutter, everything..


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

This site is all about building your own or redoing an old one. The way I see it, you could spend $60K on a new boat, or save that money and retire a few years earlier. 

Personally, I am looking forward to being the envy of the neighborhood fishing Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday of every week from my backyard built skiff.


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

^
I remember when this site was strictly gheenoe only, with a thrown in johnsen/mitchell skiff rebuild here and there. 
I have love for near $100k poling skiffs just like i enjoy seeing backyard rebuilds, but i just love boats. 

I have a feeling though, if you ask Flip Pallot, he would pick minimalist style every time. And thats what this site began as


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

I think the op was referring to prices of manufactured boats not one offs built in the back yard by weekend warriors. (in which case i think would be less expensive to both make and buy But not necessarily lower in quality or performance)
In either case making a plug and mold are the most time consuming part of building a skiff, Some guys splash and some guys start from scratch so the time and cost can vary greatly.
let's assume the molds are done, the boat is being produced and that the person in charge actually knows what they are doing then in that case most builders probably spend less than 150 (and I'm being very generous)man hours building a small skiff like the ones we're talking about here. Some may have a more complicated assembly process that doesn't always make them better. So labor can be a variable in the price yes but not the most significant one.

I believe overhead cost or rent, insurance, osha claims, interest on loans and inventory, tooling, advertising, salaries, legal cost, property taxes PROFIT , etc etc (and let's not forget bad management) is most important determining variable that affects the price we pay for a small boat today. The engine, hardware and raw materials are probably the most consistent variable in any case. So simply put, what your paying for that skiff is probably not determined by the sheer quality of the final product and what your actually taking title to but by the overhead costs that the builder incurs. That overhead cost can swing from the conservitave exteme to the outlandish extreme. This is where a unique selling perspective comes into play or not (marketing and how your brain perceives the product).

Boats are not like cars. The volume is just not there to justify economies of scale like in the car market. Have you ever seen a boat factory? Now compare that to any car factory.. ya big difference $$$$ ..Average man hours to build a new car 10-30 after you spent $19 billion building a car factory.....


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

MariettaMike said:


> you will never see a BoatMax with no haggle pricing.


Love that! Maybe a business model for this!


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

CurtisWright said:


> This site is all about building your own or redoing an old one. The way I see it, you could spend $60K on a new boat, or save that money and retire a few years earlier.
> 
> Personally, I am looking forward to being the envy of the neighborhood fishing Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday of every week from my backyard built skiff.


now ya talkin


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

CurtisWright said:


> Personally, I am looking forward to being the envy of the neighborhood fishing Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday of every week from my backyard built skiff.


Nevermind what skiff I'm fishing -- I wish I could swap my weekend around so that I could fish during the week without all the other boats!


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

its called retirement. I'm almost there.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

devrep said:


> its called retirement. I'm almost there.


I’ll be lucky if Retirement is still a thing in another 38 years.


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## HBFanatic (Dec 2, 2016)

It ain’t all it’s cracked up to be


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## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

CurtisWright said:


> People cannot answer the question "is this a good boat?". they just don't know how boats are built. They substitute it with "do other people like this boat?" Its just what humans do.
> 
> People only see what they want to see and only believe what they want to believe. Everything else is fake news.



most people have no clue what they're looking at. people are impressed with names and "terms" - companies use marketing to make this work.people are conditioned to believe big name manufactures build the best products.one good thing - people have learned not to believe what they read in magazine boat tests.
prices are what they are - comes down to "what the market bares". price of a new boat rises,the value of a clean,well kept used boat rises as well...


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

HBFanatic said:


> It ain’t all it’s cracked up to be[/QUOTE
> What are you doing wrong? Not all its cracked up to be? Please advise.... Its worked out good for me, fish week days only..


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## Indy (Aug 21, 2015)

life has its ups and downs. I am enjoying retirement. You can fish during the week when everyone else is working. Life is good.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

As far as fit and finish, I think that is ok but my skiffs are a tool not a show piece. I don't abuse them but don't worry with trivial issues and that is why my preference is with very basic skiffs, well built.


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## salt_fly (Apr 23, 2012)

fjmaverick said:


> I’ll be lucky if Retirement is still a thing in another 38 years.


Most people that have reached retirement age would trade places with you if they could have those 38 yrs. back. Time flies!


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## simons77 (Jun 29, 2018)

GG34 said:


> Capitalism.


Yup, that is why we can't have nice things. I would disagree with Gordon Gecko... greed isn't good nor efficient.  For example look at todays superyacht builders. These things should be a pinnacle of engineering and design. In reality it can look like this. Use the cheapest workforce and material you have and try to sell it for highest price...


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

simons77 said:


> Yup, that is why we can't have nice things. I would disagree with Gordon Gecko... greed isn't good nor efficient.  For example look at todays superyacht builders. These things should be a pinnacle of engineering and design. In reality it can look like this. Use the cheapest workforce and material you have and try to sell it for highest price...


No doubt. We should look to Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea for the highest quality boats and motors in the world. Or Norway, Belgium, Canada, The Netherlands, Italy and New Zealand for the best boat and motor prices right?


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

HBFanatic said:


> It ain’t all it’s cracked up to be


Beats working.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm about to find out. Had my retirement party at work today.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

devrep said:


> I'm about to find out. Had my retirement party at work today.


Congrats devrep enjoy that retirement.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Well I retired but got bored so I'm working every day but have weekends off and can take time off when I want. Don't want to stop working


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Thanks! got a bunch of house and yard projects I want to do and some weekday fishing. I'm 64 so may find some low stress job to do after a long break, not sure. Was just burned out after 35 years in the construction industry managing large projects. Not what it used to be. Most of the young guys in the business don't want to work hard and have no conception of quality or pride in workmanship. It's pretty sad.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

This thread is REDiculous.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Yes it got high jack...who knew


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## Cronced (Nov 18, 2016)

Getting back to the original point... my solution was a jon boat. They are all over Craigslist and you can customize them all kinds of ways for WAY less than most flats boats you'll find.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

noeettica said:


> And now you have quality welded hulls made by Xtreme Boats in Bonifay for prices that nip at the heels of Chop strand Hulls !!! LoL ...


Agreed n will build exactly what u sketch n spec out for 1/2 r less than glass boats!


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Plus you get a gas gauge is made from the best wood around comes of the money tree.


Wooden dowel always gives accurate fuel levels!!!


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Cut Runner said:


> Boats take alot of time to build, you'll never understand until you build one yourself. Lol the 500 man hours to build a bentley that was mentioned earlier is what you would have in a stitch and glue hull after just the outside is built, faired and painted, not even started on the inside lol
> Now all the time is spent building plugs and molds, not only for hulls, but liners, hatch liners, decks , everything. Once all the molds are done its pretty quick work building a boat. Ironically, because of that it takes more time to build a liner-less boat with a lower level of fit and finish than a fully finished boat that looks better. Personally i'll take the liner -less hull any day of the week, stronger and lighter. At the end of the day these skiffs were built and fine tuned for a specific purpose. TO CATCH FISH, not win beauty awards


Excellent, ditto!


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## obxfish (Jan 26, 2021)

probably no one still reading this...but yes the market is high.. just like realestate...these cycles have different causes but they have many of the same results...been through about 4 of them...yes boat prices are high..last time there were DEALS was about 6 years ago...If you think skiff prices are high...consider the following in 2006 the boat show model contender 33 was $140000.. there is more than a year wait and the 33 is now $335000...so where were we...boats are toys for almost all of us...and real crummy ones...you dont put the 63 vette in salt water...also car manufaturers sic ..make 100's of thousands of boats per year...a lot of skiff manufactures make less than 100...also for you fashion hungry youngsters... the microskiffs are a THING now..the jon boat idea is good...main difference is you cant run it 30mph to you fishing spot...if you want the boat DEAL shop 5 year old bayliners...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

No one is forcing anyone to buy them...build your own and see what all goes into it.


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## Rick88 (Apr 15, 2016)

_deals are always there lmao..... gotta take your time and grind for em they aren’t gonna be on boat trader chief_


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rick88 said:


> _deals are always there lmao..... gotta take your time and grind for em they aren’t gonna be on boat trader chief_


You are master skiff deal finder!


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## Poolman (Feb 3, 2021)

Well you can also look at it with this mindset. When you buy the boat for big money, use it for several years and enjoy yourself, then hope the market stays up, then sell it for big bucks. Take what you originally paid for it, subtract what you sold it for, then divide that by the years of enjoyment using it. Life is way too short 😎


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## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

Rick88 said:


> _deals are always there lmao..... gotta take your time and grind for em they aren’t gonna be on boat trader chief_


I need to know where you find YOUR deals!


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

Copahee Hound said:


> I need to know where you find YOUR deals!


Do the rest of you get annoyed when you see a boat listed as pristine, like new, immaculate etc, then you get better pics or go look at it and it’s beat all to hell?
I don’t mind paying for a like new boat, but there’s not a lot of them for sale in my opinion😀


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## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

jonterr said:


> Do the rest of you get annoyed when you see a boat listed as pristine, like new, immaculate etc, then you get better pics or go look at it and it’s beat all to hell?
> I don’t mind paying for a like new boat, but there’s not a lot of them for sale in my opinion😀


I was referring to Rick having a track record of finding older HB's at probably good prices.

To answer your question: It's very frustrating that everyone thinks their boat, truck, house etc. is in "pristine" condition and thinks their premium asking price is justified. When it comes to boats, I like to buy new. No one has had the opportunity to wreck, drill, cut or scratch anything and it's under warranty


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## obxfish (Jan 26, 2021)

Gonna jump back in the pool here....cause our staff works hard to sell this LATE MODEL..LOW MILE Ankona SHADOWCAST 18 ...TILLER TUNNEL...been around a lot of boat redoos and new boat rigging...they are all boats...if you buy something cheap...you should know what you are getting...a good older hull is fine but will need new gas tank..floor ..all wires...cables and new motor....if you get a well maintained boat you can spread this over a few years and still use the. Boat..safely...but you need to know it will need to be done....if you buy a boat less than 7 years old. IF it has been well maintained it should be fine as far as major systems...but you will have to get new battery and engine cables...just regular maintenance...if you buy a good quality boat and motor...but the service needs to be done...if the owner doesn't know when the water pump was done..figure on a repower...as for warranty...in the world of commercial heavy use boats your warantee is to buy the best stuff and maintain it to the numbers...exposed fuel line last 1 year ect...so give us a call and come on down. Where the inlet meets the ocean...787five609347


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Something I see a lot as well are guys dumping a lot of money into cosmetic after market work then thinking they are going to get that money back on re-sell. Most folks looking for a specific hull want it because of function. Not to take anything away from how nice your cosmetic stuff may look or how well done it is, but the guy in the used market is usually looking for a deal and isn't likely to drop a lot of extra cash for an upgraded color scheme and some rope work when they can find the same hull in good condition for a lot less cash.


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## Rick88 (Apr 15, 2016)

“so give us a call and come on down. Where the inlet meets the ocean...787five609347”


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## obxfish (Jan 26, 2021)

Always glad to see those good coments...if you want to see how the local pro does this stop by tom gordon skiff shop...I think he has a puke green hb available for a redo...but he doesn't have our ....my...splashy commercials...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rick88 said:


> “so give us a call and come on down. Where the inlet meets the ocean...787five609347”
> View attachment 167217


I spit water


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

tjtfishon said:


> new flats boats are even more insane....yet more people are on the water than ever. Long stretch of a good economy I guess.


Not to worry. No doubt Biden will fix that.


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## Scott (Aug 24, 2015)

Poolman said:


> Well you can also look at it with this mindset. When you buy the boat for big money, use it for several years and enjoy yourself, then hope the market stays up, then sell it for big bucks. Take what you originally paid for it, subtract what you sold it for, then divide that by the years of enjoyment using it. Life is way too short 😎


the longer you keep it, the better those numbers look. My Redfisher- $23,000 new, divided by 26 years = $881.65 per year.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

obxfish said:


> Gonna jump back in the pool here....cause our staff works hard to sell this LATE MODEL..LOW MILE Ankona SHADOWCAST 18 ...TILLER TUNNEL...been around a lot of boat redoos and new boat rigging...they are all boats...if you buy something cheap...you should know what you are getting...a good older hull is fine but will need new gas tank..floor ..all wires...cables and new motor....if you get a well maintained boat you can spread this over a few years and still use the. Boat..safely...but you need to know it will need to be done....if you buy a boat less than 7 years old. IF it has been well maintained it should be fine as far as major systems...but you will have to get new battery and engine cables...just regular maintenance...if you buy a good quality boat and motor...but the service needs to be done...if the owner doesn't know when the water pump was done..figure on a repower...as for warranty...in the world of commercial heavy use boats your warantee is to buy the best stuff and maintain it to the numbers...exposed fuel line last 1 year ect...so give us a call and come on down. Where the inlet meets the ocean...787five609347


Dude what are you talking about. My 1995 action craft has the original tank,floors and a 2005 motor that doesn't need replacement yet whatcha you smoking there share some of that shit. Oh yeah my Gladesman has a 2004 motor that has umpteen hundred hours. Your posts are all over the place.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Dude what are you talking about. My 1995 action craft has the original tank,floors and a 2005 motor that doesn't need replacement yet whatcha you smoking there share some of that shit. Oh yeah my Gladesman has a 2004 motor that has umpteen hundred hours. Your posts are all over the place.


The guy is a salesman. I imagine Chris Farley selling brakes when I read this guy’s posts.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Scott said:


> the longer you keep it, the better those numbers look. My Redfisher- $23,000 new, divided by 26 years = $881.65 per year.


Hey my old Carolina Skiff was about $7k all in, ran it for 18 years. it got wrecked, because I had agreed upon value insurance I got paid what I paid for it new. Policy on that boat cost me $113 year. I whish auto insurance worked that way.


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