# Mosquito Lagoon



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

The Texas coast is on the way to becoming the Mosquito Lagoon if water front development and estuary degradation continue. But who wants the state or heaven forbid the federal government involved in what waterfront property owners can do with their property? And who wants to allow governments to use eminent domain to acquire what was once hundreds of thousands of acres of swamp land so that the prime agricultural land that was once a horrible, useless swamp can be restored back to a mosquito infested swamp?


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## Dajk (Jul 11, 2018)

Megalops said:


> Today on Flats Class, original airing today 5/4/19, CA went out with Flip. Episode was called Flippin. Anyways, the goon sucks so bad they had to put previous episodes together to make this episode! They didn’t catch anything. Repeat. Two of Florida’s finest guides did not catch a fish in the goon.


Its amazing, all they have to do is buy property by force, cut a new inlet and save the lagoon..just comon sense


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

sjrobin said:


> The Texas coast is on the way to becoming the Mosquito Lagoon if water front development and estuary degradation continue. But who wants the state or heaven forbid the federal government involved in what waterfront property owners can do with their property? And who wants to allow governments to use eminent domain to acquire what was once hundreds of thousands of acres of swamp land so that the prime agricultural land that was once a horrible, useless swamp can be restored back to a mosquito infested swamp?


Only a few will talk about it, lots of folks know it’s inevitable but nothing changes.


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## Dajk (Jul 11, 2018)

L


sjrobin said:


> The Texas coast is on the way to becoming the Mosquito Lagoon if water front development and estuary degradation continue. But who wants the state or heaven forbid the federal government involved in what waterfront property owners can do with their property? And who wants to allow governments to use eminent domain to acquire what was once hundreds of thousands of acres of swamp land so that the prime agricultural land that was once a horrible, useless swamp can be restored back to a mosquito infested swamp?


Lots of mosquitoes and good fishing just seem to go together !!


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

sjrobin said:


> The Texas coast is on the way to becoming the Mosquito Lagoon if water front development and estuary degradation continue. But who wants the state or heaven forbid the federal government involved in what waterfront property owners can do with their property? And who wants to allow governments to use eminent domain to acquire what was once hundreds of thousands of acres of swamp land so that the prime agricultural land that was once a horrible, useless swamp can be restored back to a mosquito infested swamp?


Last time I was in POC I noticed they are doing a bunch of dirt work for another development on the western edge of town. I got home and checked google maps, and it looks like they're dredging canals in there, too...so more waterfront real estate. They are STILL trying to close out The Sanctuary. I've been getting "last chance!" emails from them once a week since last summer, and there's another piece of ranch land along the ICW between Charlie's and The Sanctuary that's for sale. At the rate things are going, it's only a matter of time until Austwell and Tivoli blow up, too.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Yep no fish left here. Everyone should go to Tampa Bay instead, I hear they have redfish now.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Dajk said:


> Its amazing, all they have to do is buy property by force, cut a new inlet and save the lagoon..just comon sense


I’m not so sure about that. Are there not plenty of inlets further south and those areas are even worse off? I’m not against maybe a test run and the close it back off. Just to see what some new water will do. Fixing the cause would be the solution. Anything else we would just cause another problem. That’s what man does.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Dajk said:


> Its amazing, all they have to do is buy property by force, cut a new inlet and save the lagoon..just comon sense


The lagoon was once a very good fishery and decades of neglect took its toll.

I have a question that I do not know the answer to: If the lagoon was good in the past, did they block up some inlets somewhere along the line?

Seems to me that cutting another inlet would be counter productive.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

https://www.scribd.com/document/275513792/Indian-River-Lagoon-Flushing-Model


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Conclusion paragraph from the above study:

Computed flushing results for existing conditions were similar previous studies, showing that that the southern portion of the Mosquito Lagoon and the Banana River are poorly flushed at time scales of several months or more. The Titusville area of the IRL also remained poorly flushed in model simulations of existing conditions. The most improved flushing rates and extent resulted from adding either a tidal inlet inlet or pumping station connection to the coastal ocean across narrow sections of the barrier island. *A narrow tidal inlet or pumping station located in the south compartment of the Mosquito Lagoon produced complete flushing of the lagoon and north compartment of the IRL (Grid 1) within 70 days or less.* A tidal inlet across the South Cocoa Beach barrier island also substantially improved flushing of the Banana River included in Grid 2. Opening the water locks at Port Canaveral also improved flushing but at a somewhat slower rate. This is attributed to the long conveyance channel between the Port entrance and the Banana River, which may dissipate tidal energy to a greater degree than a shorter inlet connection. Widening of Sebastian Inlet to about twice the width at the throat section did not noticeable improve either the rate or extent of flushing in the IRL


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

There's a 110 mile stretch between Ponce and Sebastian. The area between the inlets has 0 tidal flow and has become particularly bad in terms of water quality and sea grass death. The port is not a reliable source of flow and will never be. Too much money there to risk sand build up. While a new inlet or pumping station doesn't fix the root of the problem it wouldn't hurt much at this point to give it a try. If it helps then continue. If the problem doesn't get better then stop. From what I have seen there was an inlet in Mosquito Lagoon back in the early 1900's.

With Florida's continuing population explosion we are going to have to figure out some man made solutions to offset the growing impact of people. I believe we are past the point of it being able to fix itself.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

el9surf said:


> There's a 110 mile stretch between Ponce and Sebastian. The area between the inlets has 0 tidal flow and has become particularly bad in terms of water quality and sea grass death. The port is not a reliable source of flow and will never be. Too much money there to risk sand build up. While a new inlet or pumping station doesn't fix the root of the problem it wouldn't hurt much at this point to give it a try. If it helps then continue. If the problem doesn't get better then stop. From what I have seen there was an inlet in Mosquito Lagoon back in the early 1900's.
> 
> With Florida's continuing population explosion we are going to have to figure out some man made solutions to offset the growing impact of people. I believe we are past the point of it being able to fix itself.


yes but the all-knowing scientists say that flushing higher salinity sea water into the IRL/ML system will alter the biodiversity of the lagoon which is counterproductive...

thus the never-ending do-loop between the "fix the source of the problem" crowd and the "flush it" crowd......


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

It wasnt flushed back in the good ole days. Why would flushing it now be the savior?

I see a complete disaster coming.


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## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

Flushing, in my mind, is the only option that will realistically ever be implemented. That’s why the flushing guys keep chiming in. And that’s still very far off.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

MooreMiller said:


> Flushing, in my mind, is the only option that will realistically ever be implemented. That’s why the flushing guys keep chiming in. And that’s still very far off.


If they flush what what happens to all the life that can't live with that much salt?

I'm not smart enough to know but what i do know is that the glades were destroyed by about $50 million and to fix it wilk take a trillion.

So i kind of agree with you that is what wi be likely. There is money in the process. There is no money in educating the polluters.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

DuckNut said:


> It wasnt flushed back in the good ole days. Why would flushing it now be the savior?
> 
> I see a complete disaster coming.


None of it will ever be the way it was in the good old days. It’s a population problem just like the rest of the water issues on the gulf coast.


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## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

DuckNut said:


> If they flush what what happens to all the life that can't live with that much salt?
> 
> I'm not smart enough to know but what i do know is that the glades were destroyed by about $50 million and to fix it wilk take a trillion.
> 
> So i kind of agree with you that is what wi be likely. There is money in the process. There is no money in educating the polluters.


I’m no scientician, but I tend to believe the lagoon will kill most of the species living in it if we continue on the current path. In my mind, we introduce more saltwater inside or everything dies out.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

DuckNut said:


> If they flush what what happens to all the life that can't live with that much salt?
> 
> I'm not smart enough to know but what i do know is that the glades were destroyed by about $50 million and to fix it wilk take a trillion.
> 
> So i kind of agree with you that is what wi be likely. There is money in the process. There is no money in educating the polluters.


I don't know the answer, but I am assuming that by the current trend, everything will die off anyway. the north part of the banana river and indian river don't have grass anymore. also, the redfish wont mind the salt water. 

The good thing about the pumping station: you can shut it off after the 70 day flush and the salinity should came back down.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

DuckNut said:


> If they flush what what happens to all the life that can't live with that much salt?


Mosquito is a hyper saline environment at around 32-34ppt. Ocean water is 35ppt. This is why some species who normally spawn in the ocean can do so in the lagoon. Introduction of seawater shouldn't have any consequences. I am not saying I vote for that, I am just giving facts related to salinity levels.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

yobata said:


> I don't know the answer, but I am assuming that by the current trend, everything will die off anyway. the north part of the banana river and indian river don't have grass anymore. also, the redfish wont mind the salt water.
> 
> The good thing about the pumping station: you can shut it off after the 70 day flush and the salinity should came back down.


I agree with you Yobata.

What would happen if we dump that mess into the ocean? What effects would that have on a grander scale? If the pollutants are just running downstream to the lagoon, dumping that won't solve anything. Keeping the lagoon as is in the short term and getting the pollutants under control would make the most sense even if it kills it because of the unknown harm to the ocean. If the pollutants are controlled, the lagoon flushed, it could be replanted and restocked.

I have a greater fear of the actions of man than I believe they will actually fix/solve a problem.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

@DuckNut i agree that moving the problem into the ocean is literally kicking the can down the street. The long term solution should absolutely be cleaning up the areas that cause the problems: water treatment facilities that overflow during storms, improperly maintained septic systems, and of course nutrient run off from the lawns.

Supposedly the flush into the ocean is mitigated by the sheer scale (dilution). I know I'm being selfish when I want a fast short term solution, but I miss the fishing of my youth... (we even ate oysters from the north end of the banana river)


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

i think it will dilute it slowly enough not to have any ill affects. up here in jax we have huge tidal flows but not too sure about down there


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

@yobata - kind of like the get fined for littering laws. Never heard of anyone ever getting a fine and trash all around.

Unless the laws are enforced it will continue to degrade.


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## Guest (May 27, 2019)

This big blueberry heals herself pretty well! I am not smart enough myself to have the answer but I do work with some brilliant biologists @ my day job and most all of them agree with me and many here. The pollution must end now! Once we get the continuing flow of pollution under control then and only then will our waters begin to mend. We can put a bandaid on it but that is all honestly just a waste of money and effort that could be going towards the permanent solution. I say we start a petition... either our government gets on board and gets to work solving this mess for real or no one pays taxes next year!!! A few million signatures outta get there attention no? I know that isn’t right and many will scoff at it and tell me all the bad things that will happen but we can all sit here bs’ing over it or we can demand change now! Remember folks, this is OUR state & this is OUR country! We just let them govern it and they all are doing a $hitty job! Off the soap box, back to work.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Mosquito lagoon hardly has tidal flow. Been that way forever. Has very little direct runoff dumping into it. Do we know why the water turned brown? Do we know why down turn happened so quickly? Do we know where source comes from if external? I have not heard one answer yet. It’s always more studies needed. Why? Oh because the people doing studies make a living doing studies. There has not been much change around the lagoon for decades. What did happen and changed the lagoon within one year was three hurricanes in a row. Fishing changed and water changed from that point on. Was something already there that was disturbed?


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> This big blueberry heals herself pretty well! I am not smart enough myself to have the answer but I do work with some brilliant biologists @ my day job and most all of them agree with me and many here. The pollution must end now! Once we get the continuing flow of pollution under control then and only then will our waters begin to mend. We can put a bandaid on it but that is all honestly just a waste of money and effort that could be going towards the permanent solution. I say we start a petition... either our government gets on board and gets to work solving this mess for real or no one pays taxes next year!!! A few million signatures outta get there attention no? I know that isn’t right and many will scoff at it and tell me all the bad things that will happen but we can all sit here bs’ing over it or we can demand change now! Remember folks, this is OUR state & this is OUR country! We just let them govern it and they all are doing a $hitty job! Off the soap box, back to work.


I don't know how we go about NOT paying sales tax - that is the only money that the state of FL takes. Unless you mean Federal Income Taxes, and if so, why expect the Feds to clean up the mess that our own state seems way more responsible for?


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

yobata said:


> I don't know how we go about NOT paying sales tax - that is the only money that the state of FL takes. Unless you mean Federal Income Taxes, and if so, why expect the Feds to clean up the mess that our own state seems way more responsible for?


Gotta fire up that Tor browser and do all your shopping on the deep webs!


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## Guest (May 28, 2019)

yobata said:


> I don't know how we go about NOT paying sales tax - that is the only money that the state of FL takes. Unless you mean Federal Income Taxes, and if so, why expect the Feds to clean up the mess that our own state seems way more responsible for?


State sales tax is a tough one to stop all together, but we could drastically reduce our luxury spending and purchase only the necessities. Property taxes maybe? Sure, we’d have to pay them eventually but it would garner some attention at least! I am not talking a full on revolution here “unless that is what we have to do”. Just a little tit for tat cat and mouse to remind all those clowns who pays their salaries!


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

We're getting a little off topic, but to be honest I think a sales tax is a little more "fair" than an income tax anyway. Maybe we could have FWC set up Yankee removal teams in Brevard like they do for pythons in the glades? Just spitballing here.


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## Guest (May 28, 2019)

SomaliPirate said:


> We're getting a little off topic, but to be honest I think a sales tax is a little more "fair" than an income tax anyway. Maybe we could have FWC set up Yankee removal teams in Brevard like they do for pythons in the glades? Just spitballing here.


I’m in!


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Florida is slave to industrial agriculture, tourism and development. The state(at least the powers that be) doesn’t give a fuck about the lagoon. They don’t care about the Everglades either and the only reason they may do something about the big O is the blooms are hurting tourism on the west coast. It is very sad as Florida has several ecosystems that exist only there but that fellas is the reality of the situation!


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## Guest (May 28, 2019)

Fishshoot said:


> Florida is slave to industrial agriculture, tourism and development. The state(at least the powers that be) doesn’t give a fuck about the lagoon. They don’t care about the Everglades either and the only reason they may do something about the big O is the blooms are hurting tourism on the west coast. It is very sad as Florida has several ecosystems that exist only there but that fellas is the reality of the situation!


This is why I say we threaten to withhold their paychecks somehow! Maybe we need a couple environment and tax lawyers but we can get it done!!! Never say never!


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## scout177 (Sep 28, 2014)

Interesting read to article below. Pay particular attention to the photos of seagrass blocked off from manatees vs unblocked. I've noticed huge groups of manatees lately ganged up in extremely shallow water(almost on the banks) and large areas of grass wiped clean where grass was present a month or two ago. I know them lil boogers gotta eat but it's like trying to get your yard growing good again while at the same time there is a protection order on chinch bugs. 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/...old-study-manatee-seagrass-impacts/101034232/


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

What happens if we flush it? It goes to Newfoundland, Greenland, Spain, Portugal and the Arctic - haha, suckers! Let them deal w/it.

Seriously though, raising the salinity by 1 ppm probably doesn't matter. Anyone who has fished St. Joe Bay or the Keys backcountry knows what a hypersaline, contained basin can produce. Clear shallows, grass flat meadows and tons of sea life. 

Anything is better than what we have now. "Restoring" it to the way it was before 20 million googans moved to the area is not relevant in any way.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Capnredfish said:


> Mosquito lagoon hardly has tidal flow. Been that way forever. Has very little direct runoff dumping into it. Do we know why the water turned brown? Do we know why down turn happened so quickly? Do we know where source comes from if external? I have not heard one answer yet. It’s always more studies needed. Why? Oh because the people doing studies make a living doing studies. There has not been much change around the lagoon for decades. What did happen and changed the lagoon within one year was three hurricanes in a row. Fishing changed and water changed from that point on. Was something already there that was disturbed?


That's what I've been saying. Follow the money and there will be a massive construction project at the end of the rainbow.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/cerp-update-everglades-water-storage-diversion-projects.65882/

This one has a $16B pile of gold


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

DuckNut said:


> That's what I've been saying. Follow the money and there will be a massive construction project at the end of the rainbow.
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/cerp-update-everglades-water-storage-diversion-projects.65882/
> 
> This one has a $16B pile of gold


How much do you think it takes for the pumping station/land right/permits/etc.?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

yobata said:


> How much do you think it takes for the pumping station/land right/permits/etc.?


Zero - not necessary. The flow of garbage has to be stopped and it will turn itself. Been fine for thousands of years until pollutants went unchecked.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

DuckNut said:


> Zero - not necessary. The flow of garbage has to be stopped and it will turn itself. Been fine for thousands of years until pollutants went unchecked.


I vote to build the wall...northern side of I-10 should do the trick.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

321nole said:


> I vote to build the wall...northern side of I-10 should do the trick.


It shouldn't cost too much...How wide is I-95?


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

SomaliPirate said:


> Maybe we could have FWC set up Yankee removal teams in Brevard like they do for pythons in the glades?


*lol* Start with the Jersey transplants that are ruining Tampa.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

DuckNut said:


> Zero - not necessary. The flow of garbage has to be stopped and it will turn itself. Been fine for thousands of years until pollutants went unchecked.


Elaborate on the flow of garbage in the lagoon. Where is it?


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## TylertheTrout2 (Apr 21, 2016)

#SaveTheLocals


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Curious what runoff makes its way into mosquito lagoon? The place is encapsulated by a national wildlife refuge.. perhaps some of the Indian river and north end of the lagoon to NSB gets some run off but really no where near what other areas have with waterfront homes ect..

Im honestly asking because I dont know. I live in Vero Beach and we have way more waterfront homes, sewage over flows, out flows and other bullshit than Mosquito does and Id say our grass population and fishing has gotten better in the last few years. I fish up in moquito alot and have seen the decline over the last 10 years. 

I have also seen the increase in number of manatees. Last month I fished there I saw at least 100 of those things under 3 ft of water.


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## Flatsfisher13 (Oct 28, 2015)

I agree about the manatees..last 2 times I have been out there I had at least 6-10 around my boat. If there are that many I can see within 100 yards how many are out there in the lagoon...eating lots and lots of grass


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2019)

There are over 5000 at the moment in Florida waters. But I work with these animals for my day job and they are NOT the problem guys! Yes, the numbers have increased but another red tide or winter like 2010 and they could go right back on the list! They are suffering from the same pollution and water quality problems that all other marine life is suffering from.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

HPXFLY said:


> Curious what runoff makes its way into mosquito lagoon? The place is encapsulated by a national wildlife refuge.. perhaps some of the Indian river and north end of the lagoon to NSB gets some run off but really no where near what other areas have with waterfront homes ect..
> 
> Im honestly asking because I dont know. I live in Vero Beach and we have way more waterfront homes, sewage over flows, out flows and other bullshit than Mosquito does and Id say our grass population and fishing has gotten better in the last few years. I fish up in moquito alot and have seen the decline over the last 10 years.
> 
> I have also seen the increase in number of manatees. Last month I fished there I saw at least 100 of those things under 3 ft of water.


The goon is not in a vacuum. The runoff comes from the Indian River, which as we all know is heavily populated. Yes, it is remote and a long way from the river to the goon, but it's been decades in coming. If it were stopped today, it would probably be decades in clearing up for the same reason.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

el9surf said:


> Elaborate on the flow of garbage in the lagoon. Where is it?


It is the pollution that runs into the watershed, down the rivers and ditches and gets deposited into the lagoon.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

MRichardson said:


> The goon is not in a vacuum. The runoff comes from the Indian River, which as we all know is heavily populated. Yes, it is remote and a long way from the river to the goon, but it's been decades in coming. If it were stopped today, it would probably be decades in clearing up for the same reason.


yea I get it is not isolated; did you read the rest of what I wrote? I fish the Indian River more than mosquito and the Indian River in my area has gotten better in the last few years.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Wh


Boatbrains said:


> There are over 5000 at the moment in Florida waters. But I work with these animals for my day job and they are NOT the problem guys! Yes, the numbers have increased but another red tide or winter like 2010 and they could go right back on the list! They are suffering from the same pollution and water quality problems that all other marine life is suffering from.


When was the last manatee assessment done? Also 100k is more that 5k, so how many are there ? 

Look at Bear hunting in Florida and the population assessment they did before they opened a season, they couldn't have been further off, the quota was filled in hours instead of weeks; way under assessed !


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Manatees consume about 4% to 9% (15 to 49 kg or 32-108 lb. for an average adult manatee) of their body weight in wet vegetation daily.
How many sq ft of seagrass and other green vegetation does it take to make 32-108lbs? 

Also Im only calling BS on the over 5k number bc I think that is a complete joke. When you see over 100 of them congregated in one small area, you are telling me somehow that nearly 2% of the population has some how manged to come together and squeeze over a tiny outflow in crystal river ? or a power plant in st lucie? or a grass flat in moquito lagoon ?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2019)

HPXFLY said:


> Wh
> 
> 
> When was the last manatee assessment done? Also 100k is more that 5k, so how many are there ?
> ...





HPXFLY said:


> Manatees consume about 4% to 9% (15 to 49 kg or 32-108 lb. for an average adult manatee) of their body weight in wet vegetation daily.
> How many sq ft of seagrass and other green vegetation does it take to make 32-108lbs?
> 
> Also Im only calling BS on the over 5k number bc I think that is a complete joke. When you see over 100 of them congregated in one small area, you are telling me somehow that nearly 2% of the population has some how manged to come together and squeeze over a tiny outflow in crystal river ? or a power plant in st lucie? or a grass flat in moquito lagoon ?


Yes I am! It’s a little thing called survival! 68* water temp is the majic number for a manatee and cold stress! Below that for too long and they will die! So they congregate in warm water areas to survive the winter! This is also when most mating takes place. This makes accurate counts very easy! Researchers simply fly over these areas at ideal times and get a count. The threshold is 5000+ for the ESL and they have surpassed it which is why they are no longer on that list. Also, the Nature coast has some absolutely gorgeous and thriving seagrass beds and also a very high manatee count every year so ya can not tell me that manatee are harming the sea grass! If anything... they help it. They trim back the old growth and allow new growth to flourish and are constantly spreading seed from all they consume! 

Take this how you want, and I am no bleeding heart liberal tree huggin hippie... But make no doubt about this, it is us HUMANS that are destroying this place! Change my mind, James

PS, I fully agree with you on the bear count. We rehab 5-10 cubs every year for release into the wild which is a major task to avoid imprinting on humans and we are 99% successful in the last 10yrs! But keep in mind that many of the bears that were killed should not have been legally! Too small and/or females! I was and am all for properly managed bear hunts to control the population and I can tell you that the following year FWC didn’t have nearly as many nuisance bear calls!!! So it worked.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> Yes I am! It’s a little thing called survival! 68* water temp is the majic number for a manatee and cold stress! Below that for too long and they will die! So they congregate in warm water areas to survive the winter! This is also when most mating takes place. This makes accurate counts very easy! Researchers simply fly over these areas at ideal times and get a count. The threshold is 5000+ for the ESL and they have surpassed it which is why they are no longer on that list. Also, the Nature coast has some absolutely gorgeous and thriving seagrass beds and also a very high manatee count every year so ya can not tell me that manatee are harming the sea grass! If anything... they help it. They trim back the old growth and allow new growth to flourish and are constantly spreading seed from all they consume!
> 
> Take this how you want, and I am no bleeding heart liberal tree huggin hippie... But make no doubt about this, it is us HUMANS that are destroying this place! Change my mind, James
> 
> PS, I fully agree with you on the bear count. We rehab 5-10 cubs every year for release into the wild which is a major task to avoid imprinting on humans and we are 99% successful in the last 10yrs! But keep in mind that many of the bears that were killed should not have been legally! Too small and/or females! I was and am all for properly managed bear hunts to control the population and I can tell you that the following year FWC didn’t have nearly as many nuisance bear calls!!! So it worked.


Thank you for the response, to be honest I too believe human population is the issue not manatees. I just like to get facts and actual scientific data which you have provided. Not just some half way thought-out solution like; buy some land, make an inlet and flush the system, simple fix... ha. 

Many things go into refurbishing an ecosystem usually about 10x more than it takes to destroy it.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2019)

HPXFLY said:


> Thank you for the response, to be honest I too believe human population is the issue not manatees. I just like to get facts and actual scientific data which you have provided. Not just some half way thought-out solution like; buy some land, make an inlet and flush the system, simple fix... ha.
> 
> Many things go into refurbishing an ecosystem usually about 10x more than it takes to destroy it.


Agreed! The earth will heal, we just have to let her! And many have said it, but stop the pollution and sit back and watch! Might have to close off vast areas to any and all traffic to allow the seagrasses to take hold again but they will if allowed to! The pollution problem is huge! Shopping center dra’s that are full of trash, old/bad plumbing, old decrepit sewer systems, EXTREME OVERUSE of pesticides, HERBICIDES, and fertilizer! Many of these products should not be allowed to be sold to most folks! There are herbicides available at WM, HD, L, etc... that are soil and water born that have a very long half life! Some of them if you even get near the drip edge of a hardwood you can kiss it good bye! Most of them are non selective and will kill any herbaceous plant! Now pesticides is a whole other story... Every native bug out there serves a purpose and as we kill them off slowly we see our environment going to hell at the same time!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

MRichardson said:


> The goon is not in a vacuum. The runoff comes from the Indian River, which as we all know is heavily populated. Yes, it is remote and a long way from the river to the goon, but it's been decades in coming. If it were stopped today, it would probably be decades in clearing up for the same reason.


This hit the nail on the head. How many millions of gallons of water pour through Haulover Canal every day? Back 6-7 years ago the lagoon was still fairly clean while the North end of the river was in major decline. All that crap eventually made it's way into the goon. If you look at the lagoon do you think it's any coincidence that the south end is far worse than the North end? The Northern portion has a small tidal flow and while it's not in great shape it's far better off than the South end.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2019)

Even lovebugs “as much as I hate them” serve a purpose! When in the larval stage they help to break down plant matter into humus! Poison Ivy, the berries and leaves are consumed by all sorts of wildlife like deer and 50-60 species of birds! “Still hate the stuff”!


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## IRLyRiser (Feb 14, 2007)

It was explained to me that when food is scarce the manatees eat the root and all on the sea grass. When it’s abundant they graze the top and leave the roots. Not sure how factual that is though, but it may explain part of our problem here.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2019)

IRLyRiser said:


> It was explained to me that when food is scarce the manatees eat the root and all on the sea grass. When it’s abundant they graze the top and leave the roots. Not sure how factual that is though, but it may explain part of our problem here.


I’ll say it again! Manatee are not the problem or even part of it folks! Let’s all think about this for a sec... the manatee was here long long long before us and most likely in much greater numbers! Wasn’t a problem until recently and that has been coming on for decades! Manatee will eat just about any vegetation it can when it needs to. I’ve seen them 1/4th out of the water grazing on friggen lawns! If your gonna blame something guys look in the mirror, blame your neighbor, blame an uncle, don’t blame the wildlife that’s been here forever! “Or close to forever at least.” To do so is just absurd and ludicrous!


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

HPXFLY said:


> yea I get it is not isolated; did you read the rest of what I wrote? I fish the Indian River more than mosquito and the Indian River in my area has gotten better in the last few years.


Sorry, that didn't register. I have not heard of any part of the IR getting "better" so that's good news to me. If it is truly clear and covered with grass then that's fantastic.


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## IRLyRiser (Feb 14, 2007)

That’s why I used the words “part” in describing the problem and “our” in the statement. I fully understand that the problem is made by us. The animals that live in the water are just doing what they have to to survive. Not trying to place blame on a wild animal for a man made problem.


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