# Fly reel snobs



## Rediculous (May 5, 2012)

Ummmmmmm.... Good for you, I guess. :-?


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanks....I guess


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I'm lost

From the thread it sounds like "fly reel tune-up" would be a better title???

Don't know where your going.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

up too late....


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## mxbeebop (Mar 22, 2013)

10 minutes to wapner. :-?


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

http://youtu.be/XkADiJCYS2k?t=14s


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## PLANKTON7 (Jun 14, 2011)

abels cool


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## richwalker71 (Feb 11, 2010)

I read somewhere that Tibors are the worlds finest saltwater reels.


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## peterpalmieri (Sep 25, 2013)

I am not a snob, most of my fly fishing is done by myself so I have little concern of what people think. I do however have a big concern with them functioning properly.

I have 6 Tibors, 2 Lamson Velocity's and an Orvis Mach III

With regard to my Tibors I have sent them in for service at 10 years some have been serviced others have not and I never openned them and just rinsed with fresh water. 

They've gone from sitting in the rack for 12 months to a screaming drag with striped bass, false Albacore, blue fin tuna and mako shark. They have never failed or shown their age. I've dropped them on the deck, in the sand, dipped them in the salt.

My other reels have frozen, had the line get stuck between different parts of spool and housing, bent spools or had a sticky stop and go drag. Those other 3 reels will end up in the garbage and be replaced with another Tibor when they stop working.

I have friends that have luck with Abels or even old florida reels, some own one of every manufacturer and others are brand loyal like me. Others like to buy the newest thing out there while others are budget constrained.

When your cast is to far off the mark to hook up or you don't set the hook properly or a knot fails nobody cares what reel you have. 

When the drag sticks and pops your leader on that once in a lifetime fish that you've been chasing for ten years in your 5th $30k boat an extra few hundred bucks for a reel doesn't sound expensive.

It's all relative.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Tibors better be good the cost around $800


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## peterpalmieri (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm not gonna debate that, they're not cheap. I've accumulated them over many years.

This is how I look at it. I spent thousands buying a boat, insurance, maintenance, gas, the list goes on and on. I take the day off work to go fishing (more lost money).

You catch a couple fish no big deal, then that day comes when you hook the trophy is your gear going to get the job done? maybe, maybe not. Did I take the time to retie my knots in the morning? Did I check my leader after that last fish? I've got a lot more then money invested in fishing. That day might only come once.

I also have offshore lifejackets and a ditch bag on a boat that rarely goes into water I can't stand in. But that one time I end up floating for dear life I don't want to be wearing a $5 life jacket with only my [email protected]#K in my hand.


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

I love my Tibor. 

I will pass it on to my son. 

It's a lifetime reel.


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## Jacob_Johnson (Sep 15, 2010)

I love my Nautilus. NV-Giga 8 custom made to my liking.. doesn't get better than that for me.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> I love my Nautilus. NV-Giga 8 custom made to my liking.. doesn't get better than that for me.


I like the gurgler


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## RTS (Jul 9, 2012)

> Tibors better be good the cost around $800


They are.


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## reelaggressive (Feb 7, 2013)

I relate fly gear to cars.
Some people love their Civic and good for them.
Some of us like knowing our equipment is high performance when it matters.
Is a Tibor really better than a Hatch that's better than a Nautilus or Galvan?
Is your Maserati better than a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi R8, Porsche or whatever?

It's what you can afford and what feels best to you.


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## Semper Fly (Jun 11, 2011)

> I am not a snob, most of my fly fishing is done by myself so I have little concern of what people think.  I do however have a big concern with them functioning properly.
> 
> I have 6 Tibors, 2 Lamson Velocity's and an Orvis Mach III
> 
> ...


I'm not a snob either. And I fish by myself most of the time (I like during the week, no crowds) as most of my fishing buddies are working. I have several reels but my go to favorite are my Orvis Mirage reels. They work for me and that's the most important thing. Reels are like boats or vehicles, everyone has their favorite. I don't look at someone's reel. I look how they fish. It's not so much the gear as the person using it. Ever watch old guys catch more and bigger fish than the novice with the best gear money can buy? That's my two cents on the topic.


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## BKG4211 (Oct 19, 2013)

When I think about gear the difference is this:  often cheaper products have an expected product lifetime... a duty cycle.  If a product is made with an expected duty cycle, the manufacturer is hoping to make their money on repeated purchases, creating a recurring revenue stream. 

The point of bar stock aluminum and the quality types of things that people focus on is that it is presumably an indicator that the manufacturer has designed the product to last longer.  So the manufacturer is going to get their money up front... i.e. you pay more for the product and expect not to have to replace it.

So let's say you buy a reel for $300 and have to replace it after 5 years due to product failure.  You have spent $600.  In another 5 years you have to replace the reel again due to product failure.  You have spent $900.

Now if instead, you had bought a so called "heirloom" reel for $700, and the reel is still going strong after 10 years you have only spent $700.  You have actually saved $200 over the 10 year period.

Another way to look at it is this: let's say you like to have the latest and greatest in your gear.  Which is more likely to have greater demand and resale value?  I know that my used Stradics which retail for $230 new are hard to sell for $100 when they are a used, discontinued model.  This is just over 40% of the purchase price. With my Stella's I can EASILY get 65% of the original purchase price on a used, discontinued model.  A used, discontinued Shimano Symetre which retails for $90 might fetch $30.  The more money you can recoupe when you resell, the less money you have to cover out of your pocket for the replacement.  Again over time, you save money with higher quality items and spend less money over the long haul

I am not saying that more expensive means quality.  That is why we come on these forums.  To figure out which manufacturers marketing hype is real and whose is bogus.

There are also some manufacturers making a name for themselves and so, cannot demand top of the line prices; but offer outstanding quality.  Many of us crave finding such gems where the quality to price ratio offers great value.  Look at Hatch and Bauer as recent examples that have gone through this transition.

I think that we are all looking for the greatest quality we can find at a price that we are willing and able to pay.  IMHO for most of us it is not about snobbery.


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

Boys, I've posted this before but it deserves another, so here goes ----- small reels for small fish, buy what you like and fits the budget, get the color you want, and make the backing match so you get pretty pics.

When you get to fish that put you on the reel in the blink of an eye (or quicker), the best advice I can give you with 60 years of age now having arrived a few months ago is *spend more on the best reel you can afford instead of the best rod!!!*

If you have a budget of say $400 or even $800 and up, spend 2/3 or 3/4s on the reel that will not let you down (even used some nice reels Islanders/Tibors/Abels are within a good price range) when you need it.

Get in touch with the fact that reds, stripers (rockfish up this way), and many other fish might get to the reel, but they really don't test a drag. You get into a different drag zip code with nice bones, albies, permit, tarpon (20lbs and up), AJs, sharks, billfish, so let the fish make you a "reel snob" and realize that a Tibor/Abel/Islander/Mako or any great reel on a TFO/Redington/mid priced rod is better choice that mid-priced reel on an $800 and up rod!

I know all the debate on "if you can't make the cast" stuff, but seriously folks, by the time you get to these debates, 90% of y'all can "make the cast" with rods A, B, C or D ---- what you can't do is make chicken salad out of chicken poop, or a marginal drag not let you down. 

All above is just my humble opinion and posted since the winds here will not lay out til later this afternoon. So whatever you do, fish all you can and stay bent & bowed over the holiday and remember the fish don't know Mako from Teton. 

Good Fishing!!!


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

What SOBX said. I was having a discussion with a fishing buddy yesterday on this very subject. We are taking a trip next spring to Panama fishing and he is needing one more reel for his 13 wt. He was asking me about all the new reel makers out there and what I thought about them.

To me the answer is simple. When I am potentially going to be fighting a fish that truly tests my drag then I am only going to use a well known reel that has been proven over and over to be up to the task. Abel, Tibor, Hatch, Mako. He has several Abels and really likes them so I said then why not stick with them rather than try something else. And of course his response was to save some coin.

So I asked a simple question. How much are you going to save? A few hundred dollars perhaps. And that is nothing to just toss away. But how much are you spending on this trip? It will be in the area of $6k by the time we are all done. So do you want to try and save a few hundred, really! Stick with a brand that has been around the big game saltwater game for a long time and proven itself.

And like said in an earlier post. My Abels will outlast me and I will pass them on. They are truly a reel to fish for a long time. So what if the upfront cost is more. I know that IF I ever hook into a true trophy that if I lose that fish it won't be because my reel failed me.


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## Rhenn (Nov 16, 2012)

I would disagree with spending more on the rod than the reel, but then again, I don't fish for the offshore fish, but on the other hand, one buys an heirloom reel and with the way that rod technology is headed to being lighter and lighter, the older reels will not balance the newer rods. I have an old Scott Heliply with a Billy pate direct drive reel on it, balances great, but if I put a newer, lighter reel on it, it feels odd and out of balance. And one more point, fishing offshore, I would imagine that you do not make a lot of casts, so the balance issue is not a factor, but fishing inshore or freshwater, it does become a factor, hence the balance of the outfit "could" come into play. 
I believe most of us spend more money on our gear than we really need to, myself included.. LOL


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I agree with aces


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## johnmauser (Sep 9, 2009)

> Boys, I've posted this before but it deserves another, so here goes ----- small reels for small fish, buy what you like and fits the budget, get the color you want, and make the backing match so you get pretty pics.
> 
> When you get to fish that put you on the reel in the blink of an eye (or quicker), the best advice I can give you with 60 years of age now having arrived a few months ago is *spend more on the best reel you can afford instead of the best rod!!!*
> 
> ...



X10 [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


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## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree mostly with what has been stated above, but would add that what I think most folks are asking is: are there any real-world experiences with other reels besides the abel/tibor/islander/mako that would hold up and yet cost less? 

At one point in time, in order to have the "best casting" rods, you had to drop serious coin on top-of-the-line Winstons, Sages, etc. But as technology changed, rods have come way down in price, warranties have gotten better, and we have more choices.

When will that happen for reels? Maybe it's happened already. But until there is more feedback on those other reels, we don't know. I'm hoping that this (and other) forums are the answering grounds for that kind of feedback.

But until then, everyone can play it safe and pay for what has been proven.


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## Vining (Aug 28, 2012)

I only use Sage equipment but that's just the sob in me. ;D


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I agree with Riverpirate I love sage rods. Rods fight the fish the reel holds the line. Rods cast the line. I tend to put more $ into the rod. As long as reels hold enough backing and have a decent drag then your set. $800 reels work great they should for the price but I can purchase several good reels for $800


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

> I agree with Riverpirate I love sage rods. Rods fight the fish the reel holds the line. Rods cast the line. I tend to put more $ into the rod. As long as reels hold enough backing and have a decent drag then your set. $800 reels work great they should for the price but I can purchase several good reels for $800



The best answer is to buy the best freaking equipment you can afford. Then it isn't the equipment's fault if you have a failure. Now as to whether to put more money into a reel or a rod my best advice would be to let the expected quarry be your guide.

Going to chase bonefish then I would lean more toward the rod as you may be making very long precise casts. You do need a decent smooth drag but its not paramount. Chasing billfish then I would put my money on a really good reel. The rod needs some strength but its casting properties are less important.

But here is what I fail to understand. Guys spend $30K on a truck, to tow around their $25K boat (or more). And then balk at paying $700 for a fly reel that will literally outlive them. :-?


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Just bought my sixth Tibor. That says a lot. At least for me.

Some of the new stuff by Nautilus, TFO, etc. is terrific stuff. However, I'll sell my Tibor's someday because I can't do it anymore (unless my Grandson wants some) for almost as much as I paid for them. Can't say that about others. Never, ever any problem. Customer service about a used one I bought was phenominal. Drive right in the gate and wait, out in no time. Wonderfull. Stuck drag plate on a Pacific QC because owner never took spool off in ten years.

I've also had several Abel's. Great but heavy (earlier models). Not crazy about the new company. How many colors and cute engravings, Sir?

Islander's (Probably one of the finest) Loved them, but Tibor is basicly around the corner, not in Canada. Try one, You'll like it.

Ross BG models. Can't kill 'em. To bad they stopped making them.

Orvis. So many models over the years and worked OK. All "The World's Finest" no matter when or what.

SeaMaster. Owned The Mark Series II, III, and the IV. I knew Captain McChristian well. Extremely well made for it's time. To bad they never made it in a skirted spool model. Dual mode? Wha?Grossly overpriced now. 
Bottom fell out as a collectable after someone dumped there collection at auction.

Bogdan, Had one. Beautiful but a zillion parts.


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

> I agree with Riverpirate I love sage rods. Rods fight the fish the reel holds the line. Rods cast the line. I tend to put more $ into the rod. As long as reels hold enough backing and have a decent drag then your set. $800 reels work great they should for the price but I can purchase several good reels for $800


Not to be cranky and argumentative, but the rods cast and play maybe a 30/40 % portion of "fighting" a fish while the reels (or more precisely the drags on those reels for fish that require that they be put on the reel) allow all of us to land fish on light tippets (low drag start up/inertia) or to land very large/fast/powerful fish on 20lb tippets and less.

As to actually fighting a fish, that quickly becomes a function of how much effective pressure (70/80% off the drag, rest hand pressure rod angle) you can exert while keeping the hook remaining attached to the fish. This trade off is why really good drags, like your modified SA and more expensive reels are needed once you get fish that tend to go repeatedly into the backing. 

To each his on my friend, but to say the reel just "holds the line" is a tid off, in my humble opinion. Good luck with your rods, reels, fishing, and bottom line ----- have a damn blast with what ever stick and line holder you bring to the dance! 

Good Fishing & Merry Christmas!!!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I have caught Bones up to 8 1/2 pounds on my sci angler 7 wt. No problem with drag. Also caught a 30 inch Char,15 lb. Salmon and some leopard rainbows in Alaska.


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

By all means fish with whatever makes you happy and best of luck to you in that pursuit. 

This is the light load for a week in the Bahamas. 



Keys would gat an additional Tibor Gulfstream, Guatemala/CR/Baha would see a couple of Makos, but everywhere else I'd just carry whatever has the line on it I want to use since from Alaska to La, there really ain't much that I target that would stress a drag to the point that would require anymore snobbery than I already have. ;D

Enjoy my friend and keep your rods bent & bowed as much as possible. 

And yes it is blowing like Hell here and raining, so I'll leave you with this from the smartest man in the world ---- no I don't always talk flyfishing with Sci Anglers reel owners, but when I do I tell them ---- yes, as a matter of fact, I would like fries with that. ;D

Please take no offense, but that was just to easy and I'm old and bored with this weather, snob or not! ;D

Good Fishing & Happy New Year!!!


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## BKG4211 (Oct 19, 2013)

I think people buy as much as they can afford.  I've seen threads on the web with Tibor and Able fans berating someone for getting a Mako.  They said that it was 'ridiculous", that they could catch just as many fish with their $750 reel as this poor soul could with his $1000 Mako.

It occurs to me that this argument can hold straight down the line: "Why spend $750 on a Tibor when I can catch just as many fish as you on my Nautilus?" Or "Why spend $350 on a Nautilus when is can catch just as many fish as you on my Pfleuger?".  If this logic is valid at the top of the line, it would also be valid at the bottom.

Looking at it the way, it's about the economics of the buyer.  Specifically what their budget allows.  Hopefully the more expensive reels offer greater durability and features, but if a guy is fortunate enough to be able to afford a Mako, who are we to judge them for a "frivolous" or "extravagant" purchase.

IMO, the whining about reel snobs and the judging of people with expensive gear is jealousy, nothing more.


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## SOBX (Sep 29, 2009)

Boys, take anything after my first post with a few grains of salt and poking some fun.

The last thing I wanna do is put more of anything close to "elitist" in saltwater flyfishing, but folks are gonna put serious money into whatever they do with a passion and that is exactly what folks do with the sport we love.

As to snobbery, reels just storing the line, and such ----- sooner or later all of us will have or have already had an "oh sh*t" moment that decided for us which way to go as far as equipment, rods/reels/lines/boats/guides & even fishing buddies and the species we most like to toss stuff to.

And to any that think they know it all, including me, just remember the only thing we really are is aggravating as Hell to those that do, and there a very few of those folks, thank God. 

Good Fishing & Happy New Year!!!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

When I purchased my Sci Anglers I was employed and could have afforded any reel. But as I have said, I put more into rods like Sage. Now I am semi retired and glad I purchased those Sage rods cause they have lasted and will continue to be used. 

I also have Marryat, Orion and Fin-Nor


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

> Fin-Nor


Now that will last.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> Boys, take anything after my first post with a few grains of salt and poking some fun.
> 
> The last thing I wanna do is put more of anything close to "elitist" in saltwater flyfishing, but folks are gonna put serious money into whatever they do with a passion and that is exactly what folks do with the sport we love.
> 
> ...


The only Oh sh*t moment I have had with my Sci Anglers was when I was in Alaska.

I was standing on the up river side of a feeder creek off the Iliamna river. The creek was to deep to cross and so was the river. So I cast a wooly buger up current and let it drift. On the second drift Boom something hit it I set the hook and then hung on. The fish started down stream like a bat out of hell and all I could do was watch the line disappear. The boat was to far away and I could not chase it because of the depth of the water that was 40 degrees. I started thinking after I tightened the drag a little that there was no way I was going to stop this fish. I was in the middle of the wilderness with the closest fly store in Anchorage and this was my only 7 wt. on the trip so I broke the 12 lb. tippet rather than lose my fly line and backing


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

In the early days of saltwater fly fishing, almost all world records were caught on Pflueger Medalists....just saying.

Blame Bob McChristian Jr. for all this high priced snobbery regarding fly reels. He created the Seamaster fly reel back in the late 1950s and opened Pandoras Box of who's reel is "best".


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

> In the early days of saltwater fly fishing, almost all world records were caught on Pflueger Medalists....just saying.
> 
> Blame Bob McChristian Jr. for all this high priced snobbery regarding fly reels.  He created the Seamaster fly reel back in the late 1950s and opened Pandoras Box of who's reel is "best".


 I blame Bob allright. For designing and building fly reels that let us actually successfully target big saltwater fish! The ONLY saltwater fish I ever lost due to the reel was a nice little 5# bonefish when it smoked my SA 2 reel and it froze up. I will stick to my Abels thank you very much. ;D


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## tarponfly49 (Dec 29, 2013)

I'd say the current top of the line fly reels fulfill the need for dependable reel, stopping power, great drag, etc….but also fill the need for most of us gear heads (as most fly guys are). IMO I'd say you're paying $300ish for the technology, reel, etc….and $300ish to satisfy the gear head in you…(i.e. machining, finish, porting, etc) ….lol….


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Regarding Capt. Mac. I knew him well and visited with him many times at his shop before it moved to down off Quail Roost Drive. 

Bob saw a demand and filled it with high quality anti-reverse reels, and it was successful.  
Mac built an item with an aura around it that he craftily nurtured. The SeaMaster Mark Series was the crown.
He made it hard to get and surrounded it with peoples natural want for something better. And it was. 
Now you pretty much take the ideas he had and take them for granted. 
One mistake on his part, I believe, was not taking a good shot at a skirted spool model of the Mark series. I talked with him about it and he did make one or two, I believe. But in the end it didn't happen.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> In the early days of saltwater fly fishing, almost all world records were caught on Pflueger Medalists....just saying.
> 
> Blame Bob McChristian Jr. for all this high priced snobbery regarding fly reels.  He created the Seamaster fly reel back in the late 1950s and opened Pandoras Box of who's reel is "best".


Amen brother


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