# New decks



## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

sorry I have to ask, did someone put you up to this or are you really interested in adding decks to your Classic?  

Have you tried the search feature to scan the archives? :-? 

OK, regardless someone will be along to help you I'm sure, I would start it off, but I'll be busy eating crow for a while...


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I am lurking and learning  ...Dave


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## gotts1963 (May 2, 2008)

didn't mean to cause any trouble, yes i'm going install a front and rear decks and just wanted some feedback. Yes i've looked at some past postings. Sorry again to cause any trouble.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

I am not so good with restoring boats but I do know how to search. Don't worry about deerfly he doesn't bite (I think  )

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1187402795

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1209781296

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1211660979

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1203456322

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1192049081

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1199913758


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## stickwaver (May 13, 2008)

I just posted a thread about this very thing gotts. I know what you're going through right now. I've learned alot from a few people on this site. Check out my thread and I'm sure you might find somthing useful. Otherwise I'll try to point you in a good direction to start.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> didn't mean to cause any trouble, yes i'm going install a front and rear decks and just wanted some feedback. Yes i've looked at some past postings. Sorry again to cause any trouble.


no worries, its all in fun.  If you haven't already check out the pet peeve thread in the general section and you'll immediately understand. 

As you may have discovered from the links Tom provided theres a ton of information in here on this subject, but everyone has slightly different ideas on material and application, most of which are usually cost based, but each material type has its pros/cons. So theres a few things that need qualification before anyone can really give you an intelligent response, which is why my peeve rant about the search feature (some what lame, but I suspect Tom will tweak it a bit if people actually start trying to use it) being important. If you take the time to do a little research chances are you'll get your questions answered or will be able to refine your question so that we can give you a specific answer without having to ask more questions, which is easier on everybody. In your case someone could write a book trying to answer your original question.  

The short easy answer is quality marine plywood double skinned in epoxy and biaxial glass, probably 1/4"-3/8" ply. But unless you take some precautions theres the water rot potential if you're going to drill a few dozen holes in it attaching all sorts of accessories. If you're not going to drill holes then its not an issue. If you prefer a foam core you're going need a thicker material sandwich to get the same relative stiffness you get with ply. Personally I like the ply option for this reason. With foam you're giving up a little more cockpit volume. On a bigger boat this isn't an issue, but on small skiffs it can be. Plus with foam you need to laminate in backing plates and what not to support fasteners and not everyone can plan all that up front. If you have a good idea of what and where you want to attach things the foam is an excellent solution, but will cost more, probably something on the order of 30%-50% more than a plywood core. 

With ply too, if you know you're not going to drill a bunch of holes in it you can save a bit of money by using exterior luan from the local building supply, apprx $13 a sheet vs. $60+shipping for hi-grade marine ply (okume). I may actually use it for some interior bulkheads on my mitchell skiff project and/or for a deck and floor rework in my hi-sider. Its heavier than the okume, but considering the small of amount of wood required the difference isn't that much. If you're building a stitch and glue boat from scratch the difference adds up though, but for small decks, bulkheads and floor panels on weekend type projects the exterior luan is a reasonably good core, as long as its double skinned with epoxy and glass. After a bit of boat building research on the net I was surprised at the number of people using it where the weight difference was less of a factor.


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## backwaterbandits (Dec 15, 2006)

Horse flys bite....i'm not sure about deer flys....  Dave


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> > didn't mean to cause any trouble, yes i'm going install a front and rear decks and just wanted some feedback. Yes i've looked at some past postings. Sorry again to cause any trouble.
> 
> 
> no worries, its all in fun.  If you haven't already check out the pet peeve thread in the general section and you'll immediately understand.
> ...



What if one was to use regular cheap ply wood to make a stitch and glue boat hull. But, then use the boat just to make a mold out of it, and pop out a new shell from the mold? Or is it much more work and money than just building the wooden boat with marine ply from the begining?


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> > > didn't mean to cause any trouble, yes i'm going install a front and rear decks and just wanted some feedback. Yes i've looked at some past postings. Sorry again to cause any trouble.
> >
> >
> > no worries, its all in fun.  If you haven't already check out the pet peeve thread in the general section and you'll immediately understand.
> ...


well, the short answer is you can use what ever material you want to make a mold from, assuming its strong enough to retain its shape during the mold layup process. Some of the larger builders have CNC machines shape hi-density foam hulls to make molds from. 99% of the design is done on a computer using fluid dynamics and maritime engineering software. Once the hull is the way they want it the foam plug is generated to build the mold from. Expensive initially, but can save a lot of trial and error. But you could make a hull form with concrete if you had to as long as you could polish the surface well enough to get the mold to release. 

The real beauty of composite stick and glue, using the right materials of course, is the boats are lighter and stronger than an all glass molded equivalent. If you use heavy ply though or over build it, then the benefits diminish accordingly. But I can tell you making a hull plug from scratch and then taking a mold off of that is a lot of work and expense too.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Oh, I was wondering cause I would like to build myself a PH15, but I've read that it's not a good project for a beginner. So I was thinking of using cheap ply just to try out on a small project instead of spending too much on a quick project just to test out my skill. And then if I feel comfortable with the outcome, go ahead and spend a lot on buying all the good stuff to go ahead and build me a ph15


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> Oh, I was wondering cause I would like to build myself a PH15, but I've read that it's not a good project for a beginner. So I was thinking of using cheap ply just to try out on a small project instead of spending too much on a quick project just to test out my skill. And then if I feel comfortable with the outcome, go ahead and spend a lot on buying all the good stuff to go ahead and build me a ph15


oh ok, if thats what you mean I would pick a piroque project or something fairly small like that but would allow you to use all the techniques you would need to do the ph15. You'd do fillets and fairing and whetting out glass, etc, etc but on a much smaller scale. Then you could decide if you wanted to take on something larger. 

I imagine you've been on the bateau site and around here enough to realize most of these larger projects like the fs18 end up taking a long time to complete. There's way more work involved than most people realize, so until you've done a few and also have the free time to work on it, taking a year to get one done is not uncommon. There's a couple guys on here that are over the 1 year mark and still not done but I also know they haven't been able to work on them as much as they hoped. I think JoshW's was right at a year I believe. I would try to PM JoshW or bob or spook and get some feedback from them. They can be far more specific than me since they're living the projects now.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I would hope to be able to tackle this in a nice time frame. My father is a carpenter, and I'm an automotive painter. I also do body work but I highly dislike it. I also have plenty of friends who do body work, so the fairing shouldn't take too long. I can have about 6 people blocking it down with hand files..lol So I'm hoping with my fathers skill in woodwork, and My ability to fair and paint, I can accomplish a build. Although, I have only done small fiberglass work on some interior panels for cars, and a firewall. I have never tried doing any structural fiberglass work.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> I would hope to be able to tackle this in a nice time frame. My father is a carpenter, and I'm an automotive painter. I also do body work but I highly dislike it. I also have plenty of friends who do body work, so the fairing shouldn't take too long. I can have about 6 people blocking it down with hand files..lol So I'm hoping with my fathers skill in woodwork, and My ability to fair and paint, I can accomplish a build. Although, I have only done small fiberglass work on some interior panels for cars, and a firewall. I have never tried doing any structural fiberglass work.


sounds like you're set to me then. Sanding labor is a huge plus too.


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## gotts1963 (May 2, 2008)

no harm deerfly. Yes i read your PMS post. Just kidding. And yes I have researched and done quite a bit of reading on this and other sites regarding materials and building decks. Just haven't pulled the trigger on what materials to use. Just thought I would have thrown something out there to see if anyone had anything new or something they've tried other than what I've seen so far. Hope to be on this sight for a while after getting my gheenoe and hookin up with some of you in the future. thanks jeff (St. Augy)


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