# The 11wt vs 12wt debate!



## ifsteve

To me it would only makes sense if its a situation where I'd be doing lots of casting. Then an 11 would be easier to throw. But I have never been in any situation, poons or any other fish, where I was doing lots of casting with a 12 wt.


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## texasag07

I feel like unless you are talking about dropping two rod sizes it prolly not that big of a deal especially when it comes to big sticks, but I am not the guy constantly selling rods, once I get something I like I usually stick with it regardless of whats newest/greatest/popular.


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## Pierson

ifsteve said:


> To me it would only makes sense if its a situation where I'd be doing lots of casting. Then an 11 would be easier to throw. But I have never been in any situation, poons or any other fish, where I was doing lots of casting with a 12 wt.


But would you say that there is noticeable difference in fighting power? If it is a little easier to throw and has a slightly softer presentation, would that outweigh the loss in lifting power?
I ask because I have very limited tarpon experience....but I hope to gain some this season. I don't throw to big fish often enough to have both an 11 and 12, so I want to have the best all around big fish stick. Currently I throw a 10 & 12 wt Sage xi3 for big fish.


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## tailwalk

Every time I think about swapping my 12 for an 11 i go out and cast my 12. Once I've done that a bit it gets comfortable and I don't want to switch anymore. Now, last season's lesson was that I can't cast from the front of a skiff in the wind and waves anywhere near as well as I need to, and that had me wondering if an 11 would have been easier to handle. 

Removed from the scenario now, I don't think it would have made a difference. I'd love to blame the rod but the truth is I was in a scene that is still foreign to me, trying to cast at gigantic fish that made my knees shake and my hair stand on end... I doubt I was going to get it done with any rod. I know that's right because one instance found me in front of chaining fish and once I missed a shot or three I actually screwed up the nerve to calm the hell down and focus. Next shot got eaten and, well, let's just say it's lucky I didn't fall off the boat out of sheer panic/excitement! Yep, screwed that up too. But not cause I didn't have an 11 instead of the 12.


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## sabaird1221

With the 12wt I like the idea of being able to land a fish as quickly as possible. Hopefully by doing that we give that fish a better chance for survival afterwords. In windier situations that extra power can also be helpful trying to punch through the wind. On the other hand I feel that the slightly lighter rod makes a big difference when making lots of casts. I don't think fighting power is a huge issue unless you plan on fighting lots of 100+lb fish. Most of the tarpon I get into are in fairly shallow water and unless they get out into the passes we can fight and land them in fairly shallow water. You can land some pretty damn big fish on that 10wt. As mentioned before I think getting a stick and practicing as much as possible is the most important thing to do. Test a few rods if you can and find what feels good. Then practice with it. Being confident and comfortable with a stick is huge when casting to dinosaurs. Take into account where you plan on fishing the most. Everything is compromise in this game. They are both good tarpon sticks, my favorite is 1pc 11wt. I can't put it on a plane but thats my favorite.


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## ifsteve

Pierson said:


> But would you say that there is noticeable difference in fighting power? If it is a little easier to throw and has a slightly softer presentation, would that outweigh the loss in lifting power?
> I ask because I have very limited tarpon experience....but I hope to gain some this season. I don't throw to big fish often enough to have both an 11 and 12, so I want to have the best all around big fish stick. *Currently I throw a 10 & 12 wt Sage xi3 for big fish*.


Same setups I use. However my buddy Austin has an 11 and I have cast it. Its a really sweet rod and I hope to use it this spring when we chase the poons.


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## bonehead

I read an article (can't remember where) about choosing between a 10,11, and 12wt rod for tarpon. The statement was that for every reason you would choose a weight, then that reason would also be the bad thing about it. For example, if you chose a 10wt, it would be a lot lighter and in turn, easier and lighter to cast. On the other hand, that rod may be too light and you would need to go to a 11-12wt (if you feel like it).

Not sure if that made sense lol. I haven't really fished for big poons, but based on everything I've learned I would go with an 11wt because its the "best of both worlds".


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## texasag07

The thing about migrating poons is you don’t get to chose the size of fish that’s going to slurp your bug. You put the fly in front of the most happy and likely to eat fish in a string or pod regardless of size. In late season last year I caught a south bound fish out of a school of slow rollers. There were fish from 40lbs to 150 plus. I hooked and leadered a fish on the upper end of this. I leadered the fish in 15 mins with a 12wt, but to tell the truth if I could have chose a rod for that fish I would have opted for a 14wt if available.

I haven’t heard to many people wishing they had a smaller rod to fight a poon, but I have heard many more wish they had more rod.

You just never know.


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## tailwalk

No doubt the fish picks you but I'll give you a story where I wish I had a smaller rod to fight a poon. ☺ so after getting my butt kicked off the beaches last year I went to an out of the way spot where there were rollers from 10-100+ lbs. Thinking I was bound to hook a monster I was throwing the 12. Instead, the fish in my avatar ate. He jumped a few times then ran under the boat while I just kinda held the rod thinking "where do you think you're going?" Haha. A couple seconds of that and he was back on my side, jumping again. Three or four leaps into it he jumped in the boat. Caught!! Anyway, that would have been a hell of a lot more fun for me on a 9. But then I probably would have hooked the 100 lol.


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## MSG

Here's a story of both. Last year I was throwing to a pod of daisy chainers in the Marquesa's. Luckily I had a 10 wt. I had to throw for about 20 minutes virtually non stop till I got a fish to eat. I was happy I had the 10. After that, I had my ass handed to me on the 10 - wish I had a 12.


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## MariettaMike

MSG said:


> Here's a story of both. Last year I was throwing to a pod of daisy chainers in the Marquesa's. Luckily I had a 10 wt. I had to throw for about 20 minutes virtually non stop till I got a fish to eat. I was happy I had the 10. After that, I had my ass handed to me on the 10 - wish I had a 12.


Good story. I think everybody that tarpon fishes long enough will have a similar story. Mine was the reverse scenario and happened at the intersection of a couple small creeks off the Shark River with Capt Bob Lemay a few years back. I was not physically prepared to repeatedly cast an intermediate 12wt sinking line with one of his huge Tarpon Snake flies. The combination of weight and my incompetence had me struggling to cast 30' in short order. That just wasn't enough space for the fly to sink down to the fish holding in the outgoing current. By the time Capt Bob broke out a comparable 10wt set-up that I could cast far enough the window of opportunity had closed and we watched the tarpon swim out to the Gulf. Maybe if I had started with an 11wt I might have caught one that day.


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## MArbo

Pierson said:


> Lots of poon stick related threads going round lately. Since the holidays are over, now is prime time to get some good deals on the auction sites and classified sections. Especially on some tarpon setups. There seems to be a growing trend of guys switching to 11 wt rods for tarpon over the 12 wt. I have heard great cases for both but wanted to get some input from you guys. A recent trip with a highly regarded tarpon guide in Boca Grande who says he primarily uses 11 wts even when world record hunting had me thinking about swapping my 12wt for an 11wt. Whats your vote?


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## MArbo

interesting discussion on fly tackle....I have been active in fly fishing myself years ago. I wanted to see if there would be any general interest in my boat. I am selling my Ankona Gen 2 Copperhead. Great shape and garage kept. Not sure if it is best time of year to advertise. No formal ad posted yet.


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## Backwater

Depends on where you fish and what size poons you are fishing for.


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## Backwater

MariettaMike said:


> Good story. I think everybody that tarpon fishes long enough will have a similar story. Mine was the reverse scenario and happened at the intersection of a couple small creeks off the Shark River with Capt Bob Lemay a few years back. I was not physically prepared to repeatedly cast an intermediate 12wt sinking line with one of his huge Tarpon Snake flies. The combination of weight and my incompetence had me struggling to cast 30' in short order. That just wasn't enough space for the fly to sink down to the fish holding in the outgoing current. By the time Capt Bob broke out a comparable 10wt set-up that I could cast far enough the window of opportunity had closed and we watched the tarpon swim out to the Gulf. Maybe if I had started with an 11wt I might have caught one that day.


Can you imagine blind casting a 13wt all night long, making 80-120ft cast with huge mullet flies on a sinking lines, in high currents, windy conditions and rough water (and trying to keep your balance so you don't fall into shark infested black waters) and fighting big poons (anything under 100lbs would be considered a little fish) in 45ft deep of water with hardly a jump? The big girls were over 140 and never jumped. Those were the days.... We had to do lots of push-ups and lots of rowing to stay in shape back then. It was freakin nuts! Lol


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## Sabalon

For the fishing I do I should probably use a 15....seems like I don’t cast much and they kick my ass in the fight.


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## ifsteve

Sabalon said:


> For the fishing I do I should probably use a 15....seems like I don’t cast much and they kick my ass in the fight.


I'll bet you a case of beer you can't put max pressure on a tarpon with your 12wt let alone a 15wt. Have you done the spring scale test to see how much pressure you can make? Most guys have no idea what it takes to put 7 or 8# pressure on a fish and a good big game fly rod can take up to 20# depending on the rod. Very few guys can come even close to using that power....I sure as heck can't!! But then I am a weenie.....lol


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## Pierson

Backwater said:


> Depends on where you fish and what size poons you are fishing for.


My chances of casting at tarpon would be mostly on the beaches in Tampa/St. Pete, Boca Grande, Stuart, and then in the Everglades.


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## tailwalk

ifsteve said:


> I'll bet you a case of beer you can't put max pressure on a tarpon with your 12wt let alone a 15wt. Have you done the spring scale test to see how much pressure you can make? Most guys have no idea what it takes to put 7 or 8# pressure on a fish and a good big game fly rod can take up to 20# depending on the rod. Very few guys can come even close to using that power....I sure as heck can't!! But then I am a weenie.....lol


Now that might be the best argument yet in favor of stepping down from a 12. I've said myself that I wanted the stopping power of the bigger rod, and it's true that is why I went the way I did. I've pulled on (been pulled on by, really) some big tarpon on spinning gear. 120+, heck one I jumped and lost after a few minutes was probably close to 180. Knowing what that feels like made me want all the power of a 12. BUT. Can I exploit it? Anyway, if you think about it the max pressure you can put on a fish is probably going to be dictated by the class tippet anyway, isn't it? Clearly you'd want that to fail before the rod. Hmmm.... maybe there's something to this 11 weight idea after all...


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## bw510

If you like your 12wt and have a 10wt I wouldn't waste your money.
i use a 12 but fish my friends 11s all the time and don't feel like it's much different. 
Last year I broke my 12 wt on a fish and ended up using my 10 to keep fishing and landed a fish over 100 pounds and was quite surprised how quickly I got her to the boat.
I'd say spend the money on a 10 instead of the 11 if you don't already have one


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## Backwater

Pierson said:


> My chances of casting at tarpon would be mostly on the beaches in Tampa/St. Pete, Boca Grande, Stuart, and then in the Everglades.


Then a 12, unless you have figured out how to stop a big poon with experience over time. Just because you are fishing beaches doesn't mean the fish will not run out into deeper water in a hurry and most beach fishing you described there will be between 6 to as much as much as 20ft deep once they rocket off the sandbar or flat. So you need lifting power and a 12wt will handle that better. Going to an 11wt for those areas are going light. I have no problems with it, but I don't recommend it until you have your game down pat. 

If you said the Keys, then I would have said 11 for sure since it's normally shallower there and the fish tend to run a little smaller. With the Glades, depending on where you fish, both a 10 and a 12wt. Didn't you say you already have a 10wt?


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## Pierson

Backwater said:


> Didn't you say you already have a 10wt?


Yes, I have a 10wt that I really like. I guess I'll stick with what I have and gain some experience and maybe over time have a better idea of what I really want our of a tarpon rod.


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## Backwater

Pierson said:


> Yes, I have a 10wt that I really like. I guess I'll stick with what I have and gain some experience and maybe over time have a better idea of what I really want our of a tarpon rod.


The 10wt would be good for the smaller laid up tarpon along the interior shoreline down in the Glades and for the smaller tarpon laid up in the cuts down in the Keys. Around here for bigger poons beachside, a 12wt with an nice and easy light swing would work (without being too fast and stiff) and still give you the backbone you need.


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## rakeel

As others have mentioned I think it depends a lot on what situations you're going to be fishing in. I opted for a 12wt bc we mostly run nearshore for Tarpon in deeper water so I opted for more lifting power. I also can't control myself and have to cast at jacks when I see them so the heavier rod, while not as sporty, helps turn them when they broadside you and get them in faster so I'm not wasting a bunch of time catching jacks. My current struggle is jetty fishing. That's mostly blind casting so I'm considering opting for a 10wt there. The main problem with that though is the lack of fighting power if a big fish is hooked. I can't chase the fish down since I'm on the jetties which makes me think I need to just toss my 12wt. I haven't tried it with my 12 wt yet though so maybe that's where I need to start.


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## texasag07

This might be a touch off topic, but figured I would throw it out there for folks wanting to know a easier way of knowing how much pressure you are putting on a fish, and for trying to get better at putting more pressure.

I bought a set of (rubber)resistance bands that are meant for working out. They come in multiple different lb test's. I think the ones I have go from 3 to 25lbs. A couple times a year I take them out and tie them to the fence or boat trailer wheel and start pulling on them. Max out the band before hand by just pulling on it so you know what it feels like maxed out, then tie on you tarpon leader and give it hell.

Also the give in the band can be a decent trainer for bowing to the king then putting pressure right back on.


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## Sabalon

ifsteve said:


> I'll bet you a case of beer you can't put max pressure on a tarpon with your 12wt let alone a 15wt. Have you done the spring scale test to see how much pressure you can make? Most guys have no idea what it takes to put 7 or 8# pressure on a fish and a good big game fly rod can take up to 20# depending on the rod. Very few guys can come even close to using that power....I sure as heck can't!! But then I am a weenie.....lol


What kind of beer?


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## ifsteve

For you I'll spring for Natty Lite....Seriously if you can put max pressure on a big rod like a 15 then the next time I go to some shady bar I want you along!


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## Sabalon

For scale, the bonefish in my avatar weighs 41 pounds.


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## Ruddy Duck LA

I bought an 11 for jacks. One problem is that a lot of rod models skip 11 and only offer 10's and 12's. The 11 seems to be available more in the higher end rods.


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## Rick hambric

texasag07 said:


> This might be a touch off topic, but figured I would throw it out there for folks wanting to know a easier way of knowing how much pressure you are putting on a fish, and for trying to get better at putting more pressure.
> 
> I bought a set of (rubber)resistance bands that are meant for working out. They come in multiple different lb test's. I think the ones I have go from 3 to 25lbs. A couple times a year I take them out and tie them to the fence or boat trailer wheel and start pulling on them. Max out the band before hand by just pulling on it so you know what it feels like maxed out, then tie on you tarpon leader and give it hell.
> 
> Also the give in the band can be a decent trainer for bowing to the king then putting pressure right back on.


This man gets it...


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## eightwt

I've always understood it is very difficult to put maximum pressure, breaking strength of the leader, on a fish with the rod unless you know how to transfer the pressure from the tip to the butt section. I think it was Apte who developed and named it the "down and dirty method of whuppin a large fish with relatively light tackle. My question, as it relates to this thread, is how much pressure can the fish, not the angler, put on the tackle? When you're hooked up to a 100lb+ tarpon and in you're best down and dirty mode, and it makes a run, or jump, or headshake, what pressure is it exerting on a stationary angler? If you have trouble getting max pressure, can the fish?Thus utilizing the extra power of the higher weight rod? Am I making any sense or just way out there? Disclaimer is i never have fought what you would call a large fish on the fly.


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## Backwater

One day I'll do a video on the subject.


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## Backwater

Ruddy Duck LA said:


> I bought an 11 for jacks. One problem is that a lot of rod models skip 11 and only offer 10's and 12's. The 11 seems to be available more in the higher end rods.


Just look for a good discontinued close out or "barely used" higher end rod that you can get a deal on and use that.

Them must be the big'uns! I got a "good'un" (med size) on my 9wt today! 










Wow, what did this have to do with a tarpon rod? Nothing! Lol


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## Rick hambric

Backwater said:


> Just look for a good discontinued close out or "barely used" higher end rod that you can get a deal on and use that.
> 
> Them must be the big'uns! I got a "good'un" (med size) on my 9wt today!
> 
> View attachment 21175
> 
> 
> Wow, what did this have to do with a tarpon rod? Nothing! Lol


My arch nemesis. If I ever find that one from thanksgiving I’m going to break my c&r policy...


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## K3anderson

I use 12's because thats what I have and I dont care for blind casting. How many casts are you really making in a day sight fishing? Use the rod that helps cast that many times.


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## Backwater

eightwt said:


> I've always understood it is very difficult to put maximum pressure, breaking strength of the leader, on a fish with the rod unless you know how to transfer the pressure from the tip to the butt section. I think it was Apte who developed and named it the "down and dirty method of whuppin a large fish with relatively light tackle. My question, as it relates to this thread, is how much pressure can the fish, not the angler, put on the tackle? When you're hooked up to a 100lb+ tarpon and in you're best down and dirty mode, and it makes a run, or jump, or headshake, what pressure is it exerting on a stationary angler? If you have trouble getting max pressure, can the fish?Thus utilizing the extra power of the higher weight rod? Am I making any sense or just way out there? Disclaimer is i never have fought what you would call a large fish on the fly.


If you have the ability to lock down everything, the drag and take the shock absorption of the rod out of the picture, then that fish can break the tippet almost every time it head shakes, runs, jumps or even flips you a bird! That's why there are things like the rod flexing, reel drag, stretch in the fly line, rigging like bimini knots and bowing to the fish, that all absorb the initial shock of instant pressure, which causes things to break, like tippets, rods, hooks, etc. 

When the fish bolds and starts greyhounding, there's not much you can do initially, except having just enough drag to cause smooth and even resistance against him without breaking something. This can also include poling after him, using the trolling motor to follow it or actually cranking the OB to go after it to help regain backing after the idea that there is no slowing it down.

Towards a point in each run like that, feathering a bit more drag pressure by palming the spool as it slows from the initial burst of speed, thereby reducing his will to run and thereby slow down and actually stop. There will be times when the fish pauses to rest and re-think what's happening and those are the times to apply pressure to turn the fish back towards you and regain backing.

Pressure can be applied to turn or roll the fish over to confuse and disorient the fish (hence the purpose of the "down and dirty"). That typically happens when you get it back to you, closer to the boat towards the end of the fight. Those are then the moments to regain authority over the fish and get it in quicker.

Isolating the fish from the school is key to gaining control over it. When it's tagging along with the school, it's encouraged by being in the school and I actually believe the school encourages the fish. Applying pressure over to the side of the fish by actually pulling the fish over (whether running along side of the fish or as the school turns direction) will steer him away from his support group. There it'll be all alone and then you can start breaking it down and working it back towards you. Each time it makes that run, you are then wearing it down more and more. Every time it wants to come up to take a gulp of air, you pour the heat back on before it comes up, further exhausting and breaking it's will.

At the right moments, you can clamp down on the reel, point your rod at the fish and apply a lot of pressure for a brief moment to break it's will, being mindful to have the dexterity to let go when the fish decides he don't like that (head snaps, jumps and runs). Learning how much pressure to apply without breaking your tippet will be determined on how much you want to practice and test where those levels of pressure are. And, of course, experience. Each time you do it, you start learning your tippets, bite leaders, hook strengths, fly rod strengths, your own physical abilities and of course, the fish.

In the end, it's a matter of learning the key to the reason real pressure is applied at the right moments.... to break it's will. Even at the boat, it's another type of pressure to further reduce it's will and cause it to give in and give up (which is a whole nother subject).

Ted Haas


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## Ruddy Duck LA

Backwater said:


> Just look for a good discontinued close out....


That is precisely what I did.


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## Backwater

Good thread to flush back up to the surface and re-hash during poon season.


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## greyghost61us

I carry both 11wt and 12 wt rods. I actually find myself using my 11 wts 8 times out of 10 and there is not really that much difference in their fighting ability in my opinion. I use a 20 lb tippet between my bite leader and main leader and I have broken tarpon off with my 11 wt as well as my 12 wt rods. The reason for the 20 lb tippet is that it becomes the weakest link...not my fly line nor my rod. I have seen both broke with a 40 lb leaders.


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## Rick hambric

@greyghost61us nice to see you back on here jay!


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## AggieFlyGuy

The 11 is a casting rod and the 12 is a leverage tool. If you know how to fight a tarpon, you can whip a big fish with either. I have seen people who know how to properly use an 11 weight absolutely manhandle large fish in minutes. All about pressure and angles.


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## Sabalo

Spot on..and never give the fish an inch. Poons have mental issues just as people. Break their spirit and they succumb quick. Of course there is alway a stubborn one who acts like Rocky Balboa and will never give up.


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## Backwater

greyghost61us said:


> I carry both 11wt and 12 wt rods. I actually find myself using my 11 wts 8 times out of 10 and there is not really that much difference in their fighting ability in my opinion. I use a 20 lb tippet between my bite leader and main leader and I have broken tarpon off with my 11 wt as well as my 12 wt rods. The reason for the 20 lb tippet is that it becomes the weakest link...not my fly line nor my rod. I have seen both broke with a 40 lb leaders.


Preach it!!!


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## Drifter

I use an 11wt, not a big tarpon veteran by any means, but I figure who is just picking up big tarpon all the time? Seems the prefect size for the 40-50 inch ones. I don't think any rod is big enough to comfortably deal with a 150 lb tarpon. I had a 100 lb tarpon run and I got hooked on my trolling motor with straight 60 lb leader. Didn't bust the rod. Almost...but didnt.


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