# Bahamas Bonefish trip advice



## mcraft173 (Apr 21, 2014)

I've to East End Grand Bahama a few times. 

Your mileage may vary depending on the lodge - but I would plan to bring your own flies. I have only been to one lodge, but I wouldnt expect the lodges to have a full blown fly shop - but something more along the lines of a small gift shop with a limited selection - I think its really there for folks that lost their luggage or just had no clue what to bring.

If you tie - I'd pick somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 10 patterns and tie them in various weights (small bead chain, large bead chain, x-small dumbbell). Some with no flash, some with. I usually bring a mix of classic bonefish flies and some newer patterns (Drew Chicone).

Part of the fun for me is prepping for the trip. But if I was offered a a last minute trip tomorrow - I'd grab a dozen or 2 tan gotchas or crazy charlies with medium bead chain and call it good. I think I used maybe 2 or 3 flies last trip (actual flies, not patterns).

I think sink rate, size, profile and Flash/no flash matters more than pattern itself (its not trout fishing)

As far as gear goes - you could get away with one eight wt. I usually pack 2 reels and 3 rods. I bring a back up 8wt and either a 9 or 10 wt. Last trip I had probably a dozen shots a bigger permit. I tie my own leaders but your standard tapered leaders will work fine. I use 12lb flouro for tippet.

Lastly I'm a a proficient caster - but next trip - rather than spending hours tying more flies than I can possibly fish - I will spend my evening hours casting to paper plates in the yard.


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## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Not sure where you will be fishing but size 6 gotchas (tan/white with a little flash) with bead eyes did the trick when I fished one of the "out islands". In regards to tip I think I tacked on $75-$100 to the trip rate.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Austin_Boudreaux said:


> Not sure where you will be fishing but size 6 gotchas (tan/white with a little flash) with bead eyes did the trick when I fished one of the "out islands". *In regards to tip I think I tacked on $75-$100 to the trip rate*.


I assume you were talking the daily guide rate and not the whole trip. 10-20% is the norm. If its a package deal say $3000k then your tip should be around $450. If you have booked just a guide you can do the math. 

One word of advice. If its a lodge complete package talk to the lodge manager about who you should give the tip to. And if you booked through a agent they should have some sound advice on the standard tip for that lodge.


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## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Correct... $100 for the day. 25% of the day rate.


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## Tango1 (Oct 7, 2016)

Thanks very much guys. That’s very helpful.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

One last thing. Again this applies only if you are at a lodge situation. If the protocol is to tip the guides directly (not giving the total tip to the manager) do not tip the guide each day. Wait until the end of the week. Speaking from experience here. Just like any workplace. Workers can't keep their pay to themselves. The guides compare everything at the end of the day. Including critiquing their anglers and the tips they get. Invariably somebody is a way over tipper and somebody is on the other end. What this ends up doing is making the guides on the short end unhappy. You may give your guide a tip you think is quite reasonable. But if Joe tips his guide much better than your guide potentially is less likely to bust his tail for you.

I have been to several lodges where the manager specifically requested us not to tip until the end of the week......good advice.


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## Tango1 (Oct 7, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> One last thing. Again this applies only if you are at a lodge situation. If the protocol is to tip the guides directly (not giving the total tip to the manager) do not tip the guide each day. Wait until the end of the week. Speaking from experience here. Just like any workplace. Workers can't keep their pay to themselves. The guides compare everything at the end of the day. Including critiquing their anglers and the tips they get. Invariably somebody is a way over tipper and somebody is on the other end. What this ends up doing is making the guides on the short end unhappy. You may give your guide a tip you think is quite reasonable. But if Joe tips his guide much better than your guide potentially is less likely to bust his tail for you.
> 
> I have been to several lodges where the manager specifically requested us not to tip until the end of the week......good advice.



Thank you. This is exactly what I was thinking about when I posted originally. I've run into the same situation while hunting in Africa. We're fishing at the Mangrove Cay Club so it's a lodge type arrangement.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

mcraft173 had some good advice. It's not the fly as much as the presentation. But if you tie, I'd have a minimum of 3-4 different bonefish patterns from 3-4 different color variations of each. Also a couple of good of crab patterns, small enough for bones but large enough to get a look from a permit (most will be small perms anyways).

For the standard bonefish fly colors, I'd look at off-white, cream, light tan and a darker tan (basic natural colors). Normally, the fly should match the bottom colors, as well as light conditions and water clarity. You can throw in touches of orange or pinks (head wraps or sharpie on the tail tips) on a few of them and throw in a few legs and go more sparse on the materials and very very sparse on the flash (like 1-2 strands on each side of the fly in tan, orange, yellow pearl or pearl crystal flash). Eyes can be regular brass bead chain. Even if you are on a real shallow sand flat while wading, the bead chain helps to puff a little sand up, which the bones will key in on. Throw in a few of the deeper water patterns on #2 can have ex-sm dumbbell lead eyes, in solid brass, unpainted lead, yellow or even orange (I prefer no pupil dots on the eyes). I'd even have a some of the #4 go-to patterns with weed guards since sometimes you'll be in an area where grass and sargassum will be around, or casting around mangrove sprigs.










The shallower the water, the smaller and lighter the fly. The deeper the water, the bigger and heavier the fly. Nothing bigger than a #2 hook, nothing smaller than a #6. The 1st fly I'd reach for would be on a size #4, which most should be tied on for over there. Those fish normally run smaller anyway, so a #4 matches well. Personally I like the Dia-Riki 930 SS hooks for bonefish flies (SS, light, thin wire, strong, decent price). But Mustad 34007's will also work.










Long 3ft 12lb fluorocarbon tippets on a good tapered leader are best for all around bonefishing. But I will bring 10lb and 15lb, as alternatives and also 20 and 30lb for bite leader on more toothy fish if giving the chance to catch snapper or cudas, etc.

Personally, since you are booking a trip, possibly a few days, I'd definitely have a fast go-to 8wt for normal stuff. If you can afford to pack more (getting away from being totally minimalist), then a 9wt would be good for those howling windy days and for perms (nothing huge in the permit dept over there) and a good fast 6 or 7wt for super skinny stuff on calm days. They (6-7wts) also make great rods for DIY days along the shore, beach or shallow flats. Only 3 good reels total and one backup reel w/ an extra 8wt line (just in case) and each outfit is a backup for the other.

On the note of bringing a 9wt (I don't think a 10wt is necessary), have a fly box packed some standard clousers and baitfish patterns for alternative fishing, in cast the need arises.

Yes, for more accuracy casting, squaring up to the target (i.e.shoulders, knees slightly bend feet squared up to your shoulders and practice casting to specific targets (like the paper plate trick) without rocking back and forth (to help eliminate rocking the boat).










Make your target 3-5ft above the paper plate on the lawn and cause the line loops, leader and fly to completely unfurl out before you drop the rod and let the fly settle onto the plate. THAT is the best way to present a fly to a spooky fish like bones, if you can make that possible.

Tips? Like what ifsteve suggested. 10-20%. Those tips depends on the guide's attitude and his ability to guide you properly and put you on the right spots. Not that you didn't make your part happen (you saw fish but you didn't click) or the weather, etc. A good guide should know alternative fishing if the weather kicks up or the lodge will give you a rain check for another day when the weather is more suitable (doesn't always happen tho). A zeroed out day doesn't necessarily mean it's the guides fault either. Sometimes the fish are just nowhere to be found, again, not the guides fault and should still be tipped accordingly. 

A good guide knows how to position the boat for caster (doesn't always have that opportunity tho). He can help you pick out the right fly out of your collection or have a better one on-hand for you that he knows will get eaten. Your overall experience should be a good one, weather you catch 1 fish or 20. That should determine your guide getting a good tip. If he's just a guide that has a poor attitude, is not looking out for your interest and is just not assisting your in any way, well then, you should figure that one out. If you are booking with a friend, then work it out together at the end of the trip. One other note, if he's a decent guy and you want to do something extra (on top of the tip), then leave him apparel, hats, tippet, supplies, flies, fly boxes, fly line, backup reel, etc. They'll be your best friend for that! 

Ted Haas


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## Flats Broke (Feb 7, 2017)

As far as rods go, bones are a lot of fun on a 7 wt., though most folks prefer an 8wt. For permit you may need all the way up to a 10wt depending on the size of the fish, but a 9wt will be plenty for most and will eventually land any size Permit. However, a monster will take a while on a 9wt., as much as 45 minutes. If you could take only one fly for bones and one for permit, make it a Crazy Charlie for bones and a crab fly for permit. For most bones a #4 hook will be a good place to start. For permit, the size of the fish should guide your choice of hook size. Speaking of which, while I have never had occasion to disagree with anything previously posted by the thoroughly knowledgeable Capt. Ted Haas, I would have to take exception to his assertion above that most of the permit in the Bahamas are small. Many world records have come from there. I personally caught a 42.5 pounder near Brush Cay which is about a 40 minute run from Deep Water Cay Club which is located at the far end of Grand Bahama Island. It was the biggest Permit caught anywhere in the world that year among those reported to the IGFA. Of course, "small" is a relative term. So who knows what size permit Capt. Ted considers small What everyone else has said about tips is accurate unless your guide puts you on a once in a lifetime fish, in which case be generous. Best of luck to you at Mangrove Cay, and be sure to let us all know what you saw and caught there when you return.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Flats Broke said:


> As far as rods go, bones are a lot of fun on a 7 wt., though most folks prefer an 8wt. For permit you may need all the way up to a 10wt depending on the size of the fish, but a 9wt will be plenty for most and will eventually land any size Permit. However, a monster will take a while on a 9wt., as much as 45 minutes. If you could take only one fly for bones and one for permit, make it a Crazy Charlie for bones and a crab fly for permit. For most bones a #4 hook will be a good place to start. For permit, the size of the fish should guide your choice of hook size. Speaking of which, while I have never had occasion to disagree with anything previously posted by the thoroughly knowledgeable Capt. Ted Haas, I would have to take exception to his assertion above that most of the permit in the Bahamas are small. Many world records have come from there. I personally caught a 42.5 pounder near Brush Cay which is about a 40 minute run from Deep Water Cay Club which is located at the far end of Grand Bahama Island. It was the biggest Permit caught anywhere in the world that year among those reported to the IGFA. Of course, "small" is a relative term. So who knows what size permit Capt. Ted considers small What everyone else has said about tips is accurate unless your guide puts you on a once in a lifetime fish, in which case be generous. Best of luck to you at Mangrove Cay, and be sure to let us all know what you saw and caught there when you return.


Thanks for the cudos, but It's been many years since I guided and not a capt nor claim to be one these days. And.... I don't always know everything. I'm consider myself a work in progress still.  Hence the error on Bahamian permit. I've never seen or known them to get past 10lbs on the flats there to be within a shot of a fly rod. If they get bigger there, then "my bad" and I'll chaulk that up to yet another thing I didn't know. But like here in west central Florida, they can get really big on the offshore reefs, but they are rarely seen coming inshore that big. Those bigger fish have to be caught with hook-n-line and crabs. I thought that might be the case in the bahamas, depending on which cay. Did you catch that fish on fly? I thought the Keys were among the few places were the big ones come up on the flats for a shot with a fly.


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## Tango1 (Oct 7, 2016)

Many, many thanks for all the advice! I'll be bringing an 8wt and 9wt and possibly my BVK 6wt, which is stout for a 6wt. I live on a decent bass lake in Orlando, so I've started fishing/practice casting an hour every night after work. Highly perishable skill when you spend most days at work.


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## Flats Broke (Feb 7, 2017)

Backwater said:


> Thanks for the cudos, but It's been many years since I guided and not a capt nor claim to be one these days. And.... I don't always know everything. I'm consider myself a work in progress still.  Hence the error on Bahamian permit. I've never seen or known them to get past 10lbs on the flats there to be within a shot of a fly rod. If they get bigger there, then "my bad" and I'll chaulk that up to yet another thing I didn't know. But like here in west central Florida, they can get really big on the offshore reefs, but they are rarely seen coming inshore that big. Those bigger fish have to be caught with hook-n-line and crabs. I thought that might be the case in the bahamas, depending on which cay. Did you catch that fish on fly? I thought the Keys were among the few places were the big ones come up on the flats for a shot with a fly.


It was caught on a crab fly, but it had been soaked in crab juice. So purists would roll their eyes I suppose.


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## Wolftaco (Sep 2, 2017)

Tango1 said:


> Many, many thanks for all the advice! I'll be bringing an 8wt and 9wt and possibly my BVK 6wt, which is stout for a 6wt. I live on a decent bass lake in Orlando, so I've started fishing/practice casting an hour every night after work. Highly perishable skill when you spend most days at work.


I wouldn’t bother bringing 6wt BVK, that rod is far too fragile for Bahamas. Ask me how I know, because I broke an 8wt BVK on a 2lb bonefish. 8wt and 9wt is good start. For Andros I always bring an 8wt(rod and reel), back-up 8wt(rod and reel), and a 9wt pre-rigged for Cuda! 

As far as bonefish leaders, I prefer 9ft Rio Floroflex Plus 1x (13-15lbs) equivalent. I find anything less then 12lb leaders is gonna cause more break offs. 

As far as Cuda leaders, atleast 12-18inch steel leaders. 

Flies - not as important any shrimp or crayfish immatation pattern. Ghost Clouser for double digit bones. 

Good luck!


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## matauman (Nov 4, 2014)

You're getting some great advice. 
For permit I'd practice getting a crab pattern 60 ft in 3 seconds. When you get a new guide cast a few times and get the clock and distance between you calibrated. Those guys cruise and you need to be ready. I'd rather drop a fly 10 feet off him than not even get a shot. I've had them make a u turn a few times. They have those giant eyes and great senses.
If you get a chance stop in Shines for great conch, cold beer and a look at the real bahamas.


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## Tango1 (Oct 7, 2016)

Wolftaco said:


> I wouldn’t bother bringing 6wt BVK, that rod is far too fragile for Bahamas. Ask me how I know, because I broke an 8wt BVK on a 2lb bonefish. 8wt and 9wt is good start. For Andros I always bring an 8wt(rod and reel), back-up 8wt(rod and reel), and a 9wt pre-rigged for Cuda!
> 
> As far as bonefish leaders, I prefer 9ft Rio Floroflex Plus 1x (13-15lbs) equivalent. I find anything less then 12lb leaders is gonna cause more break offs.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I am curious about the consistent reviews on the BVKs being fragile. Not that I doubt you guys, I'm by no means an expert, but before I really knew anything I bought a 5, 6, 8 and 9 from a store that was going out business, based on how they lawn cast + the closeout price. (They were ridiculously cheap!) I'd never heard of TFO at the time. I've fished them all hard for years and landed some very good snook, reds, bass, brown trout and smaller tarpon without issue. I'm easy on my gear, but wondering if I'm on borrowed time with them or just lucky so far? Getting a little nervous about counting on them for this trip despite their performance to date.


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## Flyman28 (Nov 19, 2015)

My $.02. Tie up some #6 and #4 Gotchas in Red, Fire engine red, and try them near mangroves. Since some of your fishing may be DIY, you will probably fish the edge of a mangrove stand. You might be very pleasantly surprised. Good Luck and have lots of fun!


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## Tango1 (Oct 7, 2016)

Flyman28 said:


> My $.02. Tie up some #6 and #4 Gotchas in Red, Fire engine red, and try them near mangroves. Since some of your fishing may be DIY, you will probably fish the edge of a mangrove stand. You might be very pleasantly surprised. Good Luck and have lots of fun!


Now that's a new one, thank you. Count on it.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I used to tie bonefish bugs for folks heading that way along with quite a few local shops and a few big orders that I never could find out which lodge got them...

All of the advice given is solid I'll only add, if you have a favorite bug or two - make a point of doing them in three sizes (6, 4, and #2...) since occasionally a smaller or larger version of the basic size #4 can come in really handy. Remember that there are times when bead chain or heavier eyes can cost you fish (by making a big splash when that was the opposite of what you intended...) so make sure to bring a small pair of nippers so that if necessary you can turn a fly "blind" by simply nipping off those eyes you tied on so carefully... The basic three colors I'd want with me are just white, tan, and pink and they'd be as simple as a bonefish clouser, some Crazy Charlies, and some Gotchas....

Hope this helps


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Wolftaco said:


> I wouldn’t bother bringing 6wt BVK, that rod is far too fragile for Bahamas. Ask me how I know, because I broke an 8wt BVK on a 2lb bonefish. 8wt and 9wt is good start. For Andros I always bring an 8wt(rod and reel), back-up 8wt(rod and reel), and a 9wt pre-rigged for Cuda!
> 
> As far as bonefish leaders, I prefer 9ft Rio Floroflex Plus 1x (13-15lbs) equivalent. I find anything less then 12lb leaders is gonna cause more break offs.
> 
> ...


On a wade on a shallow flat on a calm day, shooting for relativity smaller bones, there is no problems using that BVK 6wt. Personally, I'd grab it without thinking twice about it. Just avoid wacking the stick with your fly and coming up 90 degrees to the fish and you'll be fine. Besides, your 8wt will be the backup for your 6wt. So bring what you have and it'll all work out.


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## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Tango1 said:


> Thank you. I am curious about the consistent reviews on the BVKs being fragile. Not that I doubt you guys, I'm by no means an expert, but before I really knew anything I bought a 5, 6, 8 and 9 from a store that was going out business, based on how they lawn cast + the closeout price. (They were ridiculously cheap!) I'd never heard of TFO at the time. I've fished them all hard for years and landed some very good snook, reds, bass, brown trout and smaller tarpon without issue. I'm easy on my gear, but wondering if I'm on borrowed time with them or just lucky so far? Getting a little nervous about counting on them for this trip despite their performance to date.


TFO so lifetime warranty. If it happens to break then send it back and you get a brand new one sent to your door. BVKs do have thinner diameter walls but thats what accounts for them being light. Alot of breakages are due to anglers grabbing high on the rod or sometimes small knicks develop in the rod blank and create weak spots.


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## Flyman28 (Nov 19, 2015)

x2 on the 6wt. All they do is run, they don't body punch like jacks or permit. 2.5 runs and its over unless they are really big.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Flats Broke said:


> It was caught on a crab fly, but it had been soaked in crab juice. So purists would roll their eyes I suppose.


That's a monster of a permit anywhere on anything. Did it come up on the flat where you sight casted to it? For me, that's a dream fish.... and though, not calling myself a complete purist, personally, I'd rather have a smaller fish legit (no chumming and no scenting the fly) than going the easy way out. No doubt though, I couldn't imagine playing out a perm that big on a fly rod. Even a 12wt would feel like a wet noodle! 

With bones, some guides over there will chum the water with cut shrimp, and can even grab your fly and also scent it up with a piece of shrimp and call it "Ok" to do for their clients. So ask questions let your guide know your preferences. For me, I'd rather catch one bone legit on fly than 20 with a chumming method. But hey, that's just me and how I roll with it.


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## Wolftaco (Sep 2, 2017)

The main reason I won’t bring a 6wt is the wind. As far as BVKs being brittle, you are def on borrowed time! I had 5 warranties at $30 a pop on the 8wt before I decided to wise up. The BVK is a great casting rod for sure, more suiting for flats style fishing where you can let the reel do the work. But def not a rod I trust in the backcountry. When I go to Andros I am not with a guide, it’s a diy paddle board/wade trip so I simply can’t afford to deal with breakages/warranties when I’m out there for 8-10hrs a day on a 10day trip. Why chance it when you are so far away from home and spent good money to travel?


Austin_Boudreaux said:


> TFO so lifetime warranty. If it happens to break then send it back and you get a brand new one sent to your door. BVKs do have thinner diameter walls but thats what accounts for them being light. Alot of breakages are due to anglers grabbing high on the rod or sometimes small knicks develop in the rod blank and create weak spots.


Certainly true for most fly rods, but I would add don’t sneeze if you use the BVK!


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## Tango1 (Oct 7, 2016)

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the insight. The DIY/SUP trip sounds great as well.


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## Wolftaco (Sep 2, 2017)

Tango1 said:


> OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the insight. The DIY/SUP trip sounds great as well.


Guide cost $500 a Day, my inflatable SUP cost $700, packs down into a suitcase with wheels. Weighs 42lbs including paddle, patches, etc and still leaves you some room for fishing gear and stays under 50lbs to avoid baggage fees. Great way to go. You can always pay a guide to get your feet wet, and then use paddle board for the rest of the trip and future trips!


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

I have never been to the Bahamas, but I have caught smaller bones on my bvk 6 wt along with big fish of most flats species and 5-8 lb bonita. It has only broken once in the 6 years I have had it and it was my fault it broke. Don't let the BVK critics stop you from bringing it. They are great rods especially the 6wt.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Wolftaco said:


> Guide cost $500 a Day, my inflatable SUP cost $700, packs down into a suitcase with wheels. Weighs 42lbs including paddle, patches, etc and still leaves you some room for fishing gear and stays under 50lbs to avoid baggage fees. Great way to go. You can always pay a guide to get your feet wet, and then use paddle board for the rest of the trip and future trips!


Yeah I've seriously thought about getting an inflatable SUP, which a DIY anything is one of the very reason I've considered getting one. One thing I've heard tho is get the electric air pump.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

I lived on GBI for several years. Most of my fishing was offshore, but my real love is the bones. Not having a flats boat, I did the DIY thing exclusively on the South (oceanside) around High Rock, Sweetings Cay and Highbourne Cay. I avoided the North shore altogether, the main reason it's very muddy for wading and I maintain the sea-run bones are more frisky. Not to mention fishing in sight of the derricks at the container port just doesn't get it for me.

Generally, on the South side there is a deeper channel right at the beach requiring a short wade to the bars. I fished the bars at all times of the day, but avoided high tides where the depth on the bars were above about where a bull shark would be comfortable (ask me how I know this).

There is a good bar off the West end of Sweetings where the fish run in and out of the channel by Deepwater and up on to the very large flat. You can get somebody hanging around the dock at McLeans Town to run you over there for about 20 bucks r/t. Highbourne is adjacent to Sweetings and this is more of the deal of wading out to the bar from the beach.

If you want to pm me, I'll give your some coordinates around High Rock. You can also fish the beaches closer to Port Lucaya, but you are at the mercy of the tourist crowd unless it's sunup or sundown.


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