# Newbie fly tyer tips



## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

So what are some good flies to start off with? I'm fishing the usual inshore saltwater flats fish for Texas so specks, reds, sheepshead, and flounder. I've got a decent list of flies from the ones I like to throw and the list of ingredients for each. Just looking to pick up some tips and ideas to help me out. I've watched a bunch of YouTubes so I've got a grasp on the process. 

I have a good vise, the basic tools and plenty of workspace. Going to go get some materials tomorrow and see how much of a mess I can make...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

There was a recent thread on Sheephead fly swap and also a current thread that involves a redfish fly swap, as well as others we've had, including one titled "What's your 3 best flies?". Use the search function to look for those threads.


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## TieOneOnJax (May 24, 2018)

jay.bush1434 said:


> So what are some good flies to start off with? I'm fishing the usual inshore saltwater flats fish for Texas so specks, reds, sheepshead, and flounder. I've got a decent list of flies from the ones I like to throw and the list of ingredients for each. Just looking to pick up some tips and ideas to help me out. I've watched a bunch of YouTubes so I've got a grasp on the process.
> 
> I have a good vise, the basic tools and plenty of workspace. Going to go get some materials tomorrow and see how much of a mess I can make...


Three very simple yet effective patterns I would recommend learning are (1) the Clouser, (2) the kwan, and (3) the gurgler. Each of these are fairly simple to learn but can be customized in as many ways as your imagination will allow. Also, the materials you use for these flies are materials that are very common and you won’t have any trouble finding other patterns that use the same stuff. Finally, these basics will give you good options when covering the water column. Mind you, I’m in Jacksonville and I know less about y’alls fishing than I do my own, but these three patterns are staples that fill my fly boxes in a wide variety of sizes, colors, and weights.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

For Texas waters, keep it simple. You don't need to tie super elaborate flies unless it's just what you want to do. Throwing an appropriately sized fly and presenting it properly is probably more important over specific patterns. 

I personally like to throw attractor patterns that can imitate multiple prey species. The fly I've been throwing the most lately is what I call the "muy wow crustacean". It's simple and I can size it up or down to match what I'm trying to imitate. 









or









Crack Flies are also a popular pattern that work really well and are really simple to tie. It's basically a synthetic seaducer










I'd pick some crab pattern to learn to tie. The EP tarantula crab is a simple one, but takes some materials that you probably wouldn't use much for anything else. 









The fiddlesticks crab is another simple pattern that works really well and would be a good intro into learning to work with deer hair. It'll still look good even if you aren't very good at working with deer hair. 










It'd probably be worth learning to tie some baitfish patterns too. Keep it simple and go sparse. I like SF Blend for my baitfish patterns










Other than that kwans are great for imitating small shrimp and I like tying them in No.6 and 8's for spooky reds in clear water. Clousers are boring to tie, but small ones also work for spooky shallow fish. Maybe toss some borski sliders in there too once you get more confident in working with deer hair. Other than that, those patterns should cover you for most of the TX coast.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

jay.bush1434 said:


> So what are some good flies to start off with? I'm fishing the usual inshore saltwater flats fish for Texas so specks, reds, sheepshead, and flounder. I've got a decent list of flies from the ones I like to throw and the list of ingredients for each. Just looking to pick up some tips and ideas to help me out. I've watched a bunch of YouTubes so I've got a grasp on the process.
> 
> I have a good vise, the basic tools and plenty of workspace. Going to go get some materials tomorrow and see how much of a mess I can make...


What stretch of TX coast ? General depth ? Grass vs sand? Influences your design parameters. Beginner mistakes: too much material, lopsided/uneven distribution of materials, excessive thread wraps, and crowding the eye. Test all your ties in the bathtub with line attached, for: sink rate, illusion of life at rest, running properly on various strips including a long fast one. Test your store bought favorites in the tub and notice positive attributes to mimic, and don’t hesitate to modify using more lively materials such as marabou and rabbit and extra select craft fur. Easy to use too much flash starting out. Proportions of material to hook size will come. Number of tips/ tricks to prevent materials fouling are out there and worth study. Focus on a couple color schemes, say tan and olive, to avoid buying a ton of material you may never use. Welcome to an intensely rewarding hobby !


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## fiddlefish (Nov 13, 2017)

Excellent input, I'm also getting into the game and these insights are hugely helpful. Thanks and keep the ideas coming!


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

rakeel said:


> For Texas waters, keep it simple. You don't need to tie super elaborate flies unless it's just what you want to do. Throwing an appropriately sized fly and presenting it properly is probably more important over specific patterns.
> 
> I personally like to throw attractor patterns that can imitate multiple prey species. The fly I've been throwing the most lately is what I call the "muy wow crustacean". It's simple and I can size it up or down to match what I'm trying to imitate.
> 
> ...


That may Wow is very similar to what I wind up with, basing off a Peterson spawning shrimp and playing with it. As you know, can fish it on the drop, resting on bottom with a twitch, or swim it fast. Shucks, got one tied on right now !


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Seymour fish said:


> That may Wow is very similar to what I wind up with, basing off a Peterson spawning shrimp and playing with it. As you know, can fish it on the drop, resting on bottom with a twitch, or swim it fast. Shucks, got one tied on right now !


Stuck a veil of palmered marabou at the eye on one for extra movement. Black drum crushed it


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Seymour fish said:


> What stretch of TX coast ? General depth ? Grass vs sand? Influences your design parameters. Beginner mistakes: too much material, lopsided/uneven distribution of materials, excessive thread wraps, and crowding the eye. Test all your ties in the bathtub with line attached, for: sink rate, illusion of life at rest, running properly on various strips including a long fast one. Test your store bought favorites in the tub and notice positive attributes to mimic, and don’t hesitate to modify using more lively materials such as marabou and rabbit and extra select craft fur. Easy to use too much flash starting out. Proportions of material to hook size will come. Number of tips/ tricks to prevent materials fouling are out there and worth study. Focus on a couple color schemes, say tan and olive, to avoid buying a ton of material you may never use. Welcome to an intensely rewarding hobby !


Too much material and excessive thread wraps are probably the two biggest mistakes beginners make. 

Other big mistakes I see a lot are using really soft materials in areas where they're prone to fouling and not knowing how to properly apply tension to keep the material where you want it. 



Seymour fish said:


> That may Wow is very similar to what I wind up with, basing off a Peterson spawning shrimp and playing with it. As you know, can fish it on the drop, resting on bottom with a twitch, or swim it fast. Shucks, got one tied on right now !


The muy wow is based off of a Simram bonefish fly which is fairly similar to a peterson spawning shrimp. I just subbed EP brush for the wing and added an under body of dubbing. The subtle flash of the under body works well in clear water. But yeah it's really versatile in areas where the fish are feeding on shrimp and crabs depending on where you fish it in the water column.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

rakeel said:


> Too much material and excessive thread wraps are probably the two biggest mistakes beginners make.
> 
> Other big mistakes I see a lot are using really soft materials in areas where they're prone to fouling and not knowing how to properly apply tension to keep the material where you want it.
> 
> ...


Yessir, see the sim ram influence from weight placement. Gives good tracking. Have noted the tendency for a rabbit wing to collapse and lose the shrimp profile. Your solution with the EP is good. Mine is to create a “prop” with palmered hackle over dubbing, about 4 wraps just proximal to the tie in point for the tail, for the bunches of rabbit (off the hide). The hackle is trimmed flat on the bottom but projections to the side are left alone as they act as support for the fly when resting on the bottom. Offsets tendency for the mono eyes to sometimes torque the fly over on its side. ( can’t seem to let go of the mono eye deal. LOL). Fun to see how various folks converge on creating desired effects. Might just try your take on it.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

fiddlefish said:


> Excellent input, I'm also getting into the game and these insights are hugely helpful. Thanks and keep the ideas coming!


Fiddle, there isn’t much new under the sun. You can glean a lot from studying the early saltwater flies that worked, and the why. Looking at fly behavior in the water is revealing, and will lead you in the right direction


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

V


Seymour fish said:


> Fiddle, there isn’t much new under the sun. You can glean a lot from studying the early saltwater flies that worked, and the why. Looking at fly behavior in the water is revealing, and will lead you in the right direction


vibration is worth some thought. Example: you throw a wiggle jig 10’ behind a red going away, and he whirls, races over and hammers it on a dead run just after it hits bottom. Lateral line tuned to 200-300 Hz. Was it the pure stiff bucktail vibe on a hard drop or the bottom impact vibe ? How to construct a castable fly to mimic ?


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Sea'ducer, Deceiver, Clouser, crack flies. These will help you develop basic skills, material selection, measuring, placement, tying in, finishing, etc.

Resist the urge to start with complex patterns. I love to tie, and tie some complex patterns at times but honestly it's rarely necessary to catch fish.

x2 on what @Backwater said, the best 3 flies thread will show you there's a lot of people using very similar things (for a reason).


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks guys, y'all have been immensely helpful. I have a tendency to pour myself into my hobbies so I have been reluctant to take up fly tying and load up on a bunch of stuff I don't need and a head full of bad ideas. Small shrimp patterns and Kwan's have been working for us lately so I'm going to give them a tie first. I think I'm going to order a couple material kits from 239 flies too. Tying the same fly over and over will hopefully help me get the feel pretty quick. 

Besides, what's the worst that could happen? I have a small fridge in my fish room below my tying bench that is loaded with plenty beer, bourbon and really good rum...


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## ZaneD (Feb 28, 2017)

I recommend to watch a lot of Youtube videos from 239Flies and others. When I first started it helped me a lot because you can see a lot of the different materials in action and get a feel for what you can do with them. It also helps grasp the techniques such as palmering, thread wraps, spinning deer hair, and dubbing loops. 

BUT as several others mentioned, less is more! It took me a while to learn that many of the simplest and classic patterns are more effective than cramming a bunch of ish on the hook, sometimes a couple of feathers (seaducer) are all you need. Also use flat waxed thread, and if you don't already have a quality rotary vise that is a must. Good luck!


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## TieOneOnJax (May 24, 2018)

ZaneD said:


> I recommend to watch a lot of Youtube videos from 239Flies and others. When I first started it helped me a lot because you can see a lot of the different materials in action and get a feel for what you can do with them. It also helps grasp the techniques such as palmering, thread wraps, spinning deer hair, and dubbing loops.
> 
> BUT as several others mentioned, less is more! It took me a while to learn that many of the simplest and classic patterns are more effective than cramming a bunch of ish on the hook, sometimes a couple of feathers (seaducer) are all you need. Also use flat waxed thread, and if you don't already have a quality rotary vise that is a must. Good luck!


I LOVE the 239 videos. They do a great job explaining the steps, the material choice, and the overall process. They also don’t take themselves too seriously.

That being said, some of those flies have an entire flyshop’s worth of different material on them. They always manage to tie on 17 different synthetics before they are done. The flies all look great but sometimes I think flies are better at catching fly fisherman than fish. Don’t get me wrong, I have caught fish on a few of their patterns including the marsh critter, the foxy shrimp, and the BMF, but I usually tone them down a little and do my best to make them a little less flashy.


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## ZaneD (Feb 28, 2017)

TieOneOnJax said:


> I LOVE the 239 videos. They do a great job explaining the steps, the material choice, and the overall process. They also don’t take themselves too seriously.
> 
> That being said, some of those flies have an entire flyshop’s worth of different material on them. They always manage to tie on 17 different synthetics before they are done. The flies all look great but sometimes I think flies are better at catching fly fisherman than fish. Don’t get me wrong, I have caught fish on a few of their patterns including the marsh critter, the foxy shrimp, and the BMF, but I usually tone them down a little and do my best to make them a little less flashy.


I totally agree. The variety of the materials are why I valued the 239 videos as a beginner. They show you a ton of materials and ways you can use them, and then you learn later that many times a simplified version is best.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

This isn't a knock on the guy from 239 flies but I would almost consider some of those flies their own style, a majority of those flies use a LOT of material for the hook size and the proportions are somewhat exaggerated, and for a beginner often lead to flies with crowded eyes . I am not saying they aren't effective, just pointing out that if you want to learn landscapes you wouldn't start by emulating Dali. The sea'ducer is basically the saltwater wooly-bugger, like the 'bugger for freshwater guys, it's what everyone should start with because it teaches material selection, placement, palmering, and thread control. I will also suggest starting with small thread, SMALL like 8/0 it will teach you proper pressure and thread control and will help keep you conscious of what your hand is doing.

If you must start with a more complex pattern here's a pretty simple Kwan video, not the cleanest tie but not bad either.





Edit: to add I must have been typing the same time as you guys. @TieOneOnJax & @ZaneD I agree.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

TieOneOnJax said:


> I LOVE the 239 videos. They do a great job explaining the steps, the material choice, and the overall process. They also don’t take themselves too seriously.
> 
> That being said, some of those flies have an entire flyshop’s worth of different material on them. They always manage to tie on 17 different synthetics before they are done. The flies all look great but sometimes I think flies are better at catching fly fisherman than fish. Don’t get me wrong, I have caught fish on a few of their patterns including the marsh critter, the foxy shrimp, and the BMF, but I usually tone them down a little and do my best to make them a little less flashy.


TieOneOn, agree with your approach.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

ZaneD said:


> I totally agree. The variety of the materials are why I valued the 239 videos as a beginner. They show you a ton of materials and ways you can use them, and then you learn later that many times a simplified version is best.


Zane, the videos from SS Flies are cool


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

I agree with starting with bugs that have 2-4 materials tops, yeah the more complex bugs look really cool but getting the fundamentals down on how certain materials move and tie in is key. 

Things like the crazy charlie, and others are a good place to start. 

If I was starting out I would grab a couple different colors or sili legs, craft fur in a couple colors, some ice dub or palmer chenille for flash, and some congo hair or EP synthetic hair, and and few packs of marabou and some various dumbell/beachchain eyes. Thread I recommend 210 flat waxed. Combine those materials with a few sharpies and you will have a good foundation to work off of, then can progress with more materials and complexity as your tying evolves.


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## TieOneOnJax (May 24, 2018)

Seymour fish said:


> Zane, the videos from SS Flies are cool


SS Flies makes great vids. I’m usually less interested in the pattern they’re tying and more interested in technique. Those guys are awesome. Sometimes they trash a lot of excess material but in a production operation like theirs that makes good sense. I particularly like the way they tie in EP bodies for flies like toads.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

TieOneOnJax said:


> SS Flies makes great vids. I’m usually less interested in the pattern they’re tying and more interested in technique. Those guys are awesome. Sometimes they trash a lot of excess material but in a production operation like theirs that makes good sense. I particularly like the way they tie in EP bodies for flies like toads.


Their use of a palmered hackle to support a marabou collar turned on some thought too


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Ok, here’s my first fly. EP ghost shrimp, #2 hook. The shrimp in the marsh are getting pretty good sized so I upped the size of the fly from a #4. 

Two things are giving a hard time so far, tying on sili-legs and getting the angle right and twisting dubbing pieces onto the thread. I tied a few more and they are about the same.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

jay.bush1434 said:


> View attachment 37854
> Ok, here’s my first fly. EP ghost shrimp, #2 hook. The shrimp in the marsh are getting pretty good sized so I upped the size of the fly from a #4.
> 
> Two things are giving a hard time so far, tying on sili-legs and getting the angle right and twisting dubbing pieces onto the thread. I tied a few more and they are about the same.


Damn nice. Try varying tension on sililegs. Dubbing loop


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jay.bush1434 said:


> Going to go get some materials tomorrow and see how much of a mess I can make...



Here's a tip that I always tell newbie tiers. Don't buy large quantities of tying materials. Research and talk to guys in the know that tie very effective patters. Then buy those materials in the smallest packs that are available, instead of buying large packs of the stuff, like whole buck tails and such. Keep it small since you find that you will constantly migrate to different materials that you like better and the old stuff will just sit there and hardly be used. Storage of those materials becomes another factor in the equation, as well as money invested. So keep it small, simple and affordable. Don't look at a particular material and then think you need every color in the rainbow. Just get what you "*need*" only (for a particular pattern or 2), again, in the smallest packs you can find. Same goes with hooks. You'll also find that some of the same materials and colors you already have make Ok substitutes for patterns using other various colors or materials (like peach for orange, or green chartreuse for yellow chartreuse), unless you are sure varied colors or materials make a big difference in that fly that fish are refusing or eating.

All this will keep your fly tying simpler, keep your storage to a minimal, keep your tying desk cleaner and keep your overall budget at bay. Believe me, I know, after 28yrs of fly tying. I've gone full circle, from starting off simple, to diving all-in with thousands invested in fly tying materials alone, hundreds of different fly patterns, developing my own patterns, to these days where I'm using far less materials that I have and using far fewer and more simpler flies that work on a wider variety of species instead of flies that target only one specie, than what I'm capable of tying, that all of such work just as good as going exotic on the materials and more complicated ties. 

When it comes right down to it, I could probably live with enough tying materials that would fit in a simple shoe box and be just as satisfied with that, as oppose to the drawers and cases of stuff that I've accumulated over the years, which I'm currently in the process of down sizing. 

Bottom line, for a Newbie, stick to the K.I.S.S. method and your "tying life" will be much simpler. 

Ted Haas


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

I have to disagree with you Ted. My method is to walk into the fly shop (or online shop), black out, and wake up at my tying desk with another $100 worth of stuff.


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Go on Kelly Gallup’s YouTube channel, he has a good tutorial on tying in rubber legs. And in dubbing loops.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I have to disagree with you Ted. My method is to walk into the fly shop (or online shop), black out, and wake up at my tying desk with another $100 worth of stuff.


LOL, that was me! I'd look in that bag the next day, that I stashed from sight from my wife the day before, then look in and think to myself... _"I thought I was going to pass on all that extra stuff and only get those 2 things that I actually needed!"  _Then think to myself...._ "ahh I'm sure I'll use it one day!"_  Then 2yrs later think to myself when I ran acrossed it in one of the drawers.... "hey I should try that stuff sometime!" Then the following year actually pull it out and lay it on the desk, to force myself to look at it another 4 months until I finally tie something with it. Then fish that fly the next summer, catch a fish with it or not, say to myself... Ehh... and forget about it for another couple of years. Then I decide to clean up and organize my desk with all the drawers and throw everything out on the floor to sort it all out and the tidal wave of materials starts to build, leaving me with nightmares that night of me surfing on 40ft tubes of tying materials while being chased by 12ft hammerheads!!! 

To be honest, It's the nightmares that gets me! 

LOL


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I have to disagree with you Ted. My method is to walk into the fly shop (or online shop), black out, and wake up at my tying desk with another $100 worth of stuff.


Maybe you should hit the fly shop before you stop in that little hole in the wall brewery and sample all the new craft beer you haven't tried yet!


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## TieOneOnJax (May 24, 2018)

Backwater said:


> Maybe you should hit the fly shop before you stop in that little hole in the wall brewery and sample all the new craft beer you haven't tried yet!


Yeah, the process really needs to be (1) buy material, then (2) go to taproom and drink beer. Confusing the order of these two steps can lead to catastrophic and expensive consequences as well as marital discord.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Backwater said:


> Maybe you should hit the fly shop before you stop in that little hole in the wall brewery and sample all the new craft beer you haven't tried yet!


Have you been following me?


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I have to disagree with you Ted. My method is to walk into the fly shop (or online shop), black out, and wake up at my tying desk with another $100 worth of stuff.


This is why blackfly in Jacksonville is so dangerous. Beer & a flyshop together!!!! I love the place, but my wallet doesn’t....


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Rick hambric said:


> This is why blackfly in Jacksonville is so dangerous. Beer & a flyshop together!!!! I love the place, but my wallet doesn’t....


Now THAT"S strategic marketing!


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Rick hambric said:


> This is why blackfly in Jacksonville is so dangerous. Beer & a flyshop together!!!! I love the place, but my wallet doesn’t....


I’d be in so much trouble in a shop like that.


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