# Fly Fishing the Tamiami Trail



## bryson

Good read! That's on my to-do list for sure. Did you find any willing fish once the sun got up in the sky a bit, or was that when you got more in the freshwater side?


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## BM_Barrelcooker

So awesome. 

One of my favorite places for adventure and variety. 

Thank you !!!


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## crboggs

You haven't lived until you've double hauled from those bridges with big trucks and RVs rushing past...


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## lemaymiami

No one's gear is stout enough if you hook something with wheels on your backcast... Whenever anyone asks me about that area I point them to the many small bridges west of the turnoff for Everglades City.... This time of year with the dry season biting down hard the north side canals will hold a bunch of sweetwater fish (add a good north wind to push bait out on the vegetation and things get interesting... ). The south side canals and bridge openings are for small tarpon and maybe a snook too big to slow down... 

Be careful along that road though - fishing ain't worth dying over....


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## permitchaser

Can't you put a boat in there?


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## johnmauser

bryson said:


> Good read! That's on my to-do list for sure. Did you find any willing fish once the sun got up in the sky a bit, or was that when you got more in the freshwater side?


Thanks! The saltwater fish really seemed to be on fire from before sunrise till about 9am. From 9 to 10 it started to taper off. So around 10 we decided to move on. The west 3rd of the Trail is saltier. The 
East 2/3rds was more fresh. Once we started hiting the freshwater fish, the bite was on all day long. We finished the afternoon off in Miami, and I'll post all of that in a few days. Pretty sure if we had drove back towards Naples that evening, the saltwater bite would have been back on fire.


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## johnmauser

BM_Barrelcooker said:


> So awesome.
> 
> One of my favorite places for adventure and variety.
> 
> Thank you !!!


Thank you, I appreciate it!


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## johnmauser

lemaymiami said:


> No one's gear is stout enough if you hook something with wheels on your backcast... Whenever anyone asks me about that area I point them to the many small bridges west of the turnoff for Everglades City.... This time of year with the dry season biting down hard the north side canals will hold a bunch of sweetwater fish (add a good north wind to push bait out on the vegetation and things get interesting... ). The south side canals and bridge openings are for small tarpon and maybe a snook too big to slow down...
> 
> Be careful along that road though - fishing ain't worth dying over....


I agree. As good as the fishing is, you have to pick and choose your spots. Lots of areas where the shoulder of the road isn't much more than 4ft between the road and the canal. Plenty of safe spots to get away from the traffic.


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## johnmauser

permitchaser said:


> Can't you put a boat in there?


We covered about 100 miles between Naples and Miami along the trail and saw several boat ramps along the way.


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## BM_Barrelcooker

That’s an awesome trip. 

I highly suggest it for anyone that gets the chance. 

Lots of different aquarium fish can be caught on the fly.


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## sevenweight

Looks like a blast! Thanks for posting. I’m going to have to head down from Homosassa to give it a try ... both with and without boat.


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## Dawhoo

Wow great timing. I live in SW Florida and will be for only 2 months more... I have caught many large bass in the Eastern half but have never fished the saltwater part. 

3 weeks ago I told my wife I had 2 places left to fish before we move, the tamiami trail and 1000 islands. I have already taken off the last week in April to accomplish this.


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## R-Factor

Nice blog- thank you for sharing your experience on the Trail!


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## Str8-Six

Make sure you don’t snag something on your back cast. Had this happen to me right before a car was coming.... more than once.


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## hostage1985

John, next CLFF meet I need to tell you about a certain quarry there.


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## johnmauser

hostage1985 said:


> John, next CLFF meet I need to tell you about a certain quarry there.


Sounds good, I look forward to it.


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## Backwater

johnmauser said:


> Thanks! The saltwater fish really seemed to be on fire from before sunrise till about 9am. From 9 to 10 it started to taper off. So around 10 we decided to move on. The west 3rd of the Trail is saltier. The
> East 2/3rds was more fresh. Once we started hiting the freshwater fish, the bite was on all day long. We finished the afternoon off in Miami, and I'll post all of that in a few days. Pretty sure if we had drove back towards Naples that evening, the saltwater bite would have been back on fire.


John, thanks for taking the time with Project Healing Waters Fly Fishing. I know those guys were grateful.

I know the exact bridge your on. Next time, bring a canoe and drop it in that same spot and throw a #6 size white shminnow and a small spoon fly. You'll be amazed on what you'll catch.

The differences between the fresh (or we call it "sweetwater") or saltwater along the Tamiami Trail, is not where, but when. When there hasn't been very much rain and dry, the saltwater will push up inside the rivers, creeks and mangrove estuaries and will intrude up to the wheirs, levies and dams. Some species survive in both or brackish, while others either follow the fresh or salt water. When it starts to rain, there is a mixing of the two, till the rainy season finally hits hard and the freshwater finally overcomes and pushes all the way out to the outside edges of the inside of the back country.

I've seen it be completely saltwater on the west side of 41 from Naples to Florida City when it's dry and completely fresh during the rainy season.


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## Backwater

permitchaser said:


> Can't you put a boat in there?


Not really on Tamiami Trail/41. However, a bigger canoe or a Gheenoe (or in BM_Cooker's case, a Towee), or really small john boat (10-12ft+/-) those are the ideal water craft for certain areas (not all areas) and a paddle or trolling motor is all the propulsion you need. Again, there are no ramps. So your rig needs to be launch-able by hand if needed.

I recommend no kayaks.










It's too easy for a gator to slide onto it and become an unwanted passenger and help himself to the fish you just landed. 



Click on this pic and count the # of gators here around my canoe. There were actually about a dozen gators around me in this pic.


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## johnmauser

Backwater said:


> John, thanks for taking the time with Project Healing Waters Fly Fishing. I know those guys were grateful.
> 
> I know the exact bridge your on. Next time, bring a canoe and drop it in that same spot and throw a #6 size white shminnow and a small spoon fly. You'll be amazed on what you'll catch.
> 
> The differences between the fresh (or we call it "sweetwater") or saltwater along the Tamiami Trail, is not where, but when. When there hasn't been very much rain and dry, the saltwater will push up inside the rivers, creeks and mangrove estuaries and will intrude up to the wheirs, levies and dams. Some species survive in both or brackish, while others either follow the fresh or salt water. When it starts to rain, there is a mixing of the two, till the rainy season finally hits hard and the freshwater finally overcomes and pushes all the way out to the outside edges of the inside of the back country.
> 
> If seen it be completely saltwater on the west side of 41 from Naples to Florida City when it's dry and completely fresh during the rainy season.


Good info, thank you. I hope to get to fish it enough times to experience these seasonal differences. Such an amazing place.


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## shb




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## johnmauser

shb said:


> View attachment 25901


I couldn't believe how many gar were in some of the canals. Took us a while to figure out how to make them bite consistently, but once we did, we had a bunch of fun with them.


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## shb

When I pulled the trigger and went to the keys to learn SW fly fishing I drove down from the middle of the country.

75 to Naples turn left to Homestead turn right to the keys


Going across the T trail I kept seeing big swirls in the pockets of water as I crossed the little bridges .

So I stopped at one. I had a little yellow clouser on my 5wt. First cast a 5lb tarpon whacked it, came flying through the air and spit the hook.

I thought to myself. "Hell, this tarpon $##t is going to be easy"

I should have quit right there batting a 1000


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## RunningOnEmpty

permitchaser said:


> Can't you put a boat in there?


https://goo.gl/maps/WSwC9Vtz8Y52


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## johnmauser

shb said:


> When I pulled the trigger and went to the keys to learn SW fly fishing I drove down from the middle of the country.
> 
> 75 to Naples turn left to Homestead turn right to the keys
> 
> 
> Going across the T trail I kept seeing big swirls in the pockets of water as I crossed the little bridges .
> 
> So I stopped at one. I had a little yellow clouser on my 5wt. First cast a 5lb tarpon whacked it, came flying through the air and spit the hook.
> 
> I thought to myself. "Hell, this tarpon $##t is going to be easy"
> 
> I should have quit right there batting a 1000


Ha ha. You should have packed your rods back up, and just enjoyed the food and the view in the Keys after that.


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## Backwater

RunningOnEmpty said:


> https://goo.gl/maps/WSwC9Vtz8Y52


Not his boat, Braw!


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## Backwater

shb said:


>


Awe.... I see no "poor man's lobster" (gator gars).


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## BarHopper

looks like fun!


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## crboggs

Backwater said:


> There were actually about a dozen gators around me in this pic.


You know...we've talked about taking the SUPs down there but decided gunnels would be nice to separate us from the "local residents" if they got curious or frisky. 

Might have to drag the canoe down one day. Could be an adventure.


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## texasag07

The residents right off the trail are pretty aggressive especially when a fish is hooked. I was trying to haul a gar over the guard rail last summer and out of nowhere a big gator jumped up and grabbed my gar, I did the manly thing and screamed like a girl and ran the other way until the leader popped. I have had to move on to another spot when they get to fired up.

Not sure I want in the water with those guys in a canoe either, lol.


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## RunningOnEmpty

I fished those waters in my old gheenoe without any problems. Some of those gators are big, but they always cleared out of my way. I don't recommend holding fish in the water on the release! What about the saltwater crocks? I saw one in Ferguson Bay that looked like a dinosaur. It slid into the water and went right off the bow while under water. I felt like sitting duck in that little gheenoe.


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## tailwalk

No way I'd fish a sup down there. I've done it from a hobie pa and a couple different canoes. Not sure the hobie was even a good idea haha. At least there's some vertical barrier in the canoe. For the most part, the gators I've encountered were met without incident but you don't want to be the one giving them the idea that we equal food sources. I called off a launch at one spot due to a gator being parked right there. He seemed a little too comfy with me approaching for my taste. Hard call given the 4-5' tarpon I'd seen there a couple days earlier... but I like my hands, arms, legs, life, etc...


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## lemaymiami

anyone fishing out of a paddle board in those areas should be required to have an observer, camera in hand - to document the fun you'll have when a big, big 'gator decides he likes your fish up close and personal... 

I've seen big 'gators take herons standing up on top of a four foot tall seawall over at Port of the Islands (I still think of that place as Remuda Ranch...). You have to see it to believe one can lunge five feet in the air when they need to... Kind of makes primitive fly rod fishing a blood sport....


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## johnmauser

The majority of gators that I have seen along Tamiami and Alligator Alley don't seem to have any fear of humans. I've seen a handful that scoot into the water if you get close to them, but I've seen just as many that swim right up to you and wait like a dog begging for scraps at the dinner table. I've never felt uncomfortable around them, but I'm very aware and respectful of their strength and speed.


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## k-roc

I don't mind SUPping the 10K islands and Chokoloskee where we see sharks on a daily basis but I would never think of trying it in the Tamiami canals...
Interesting what you are saying Bob re Port of the Islands, I was thinking of launching there and checking it out, but now you're freaking me a bit with this story of gators launching vertically!!


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## crboggs

I'm WAAAAAAY more sketched out about gators than I am sharks.

I'll wade all day waist deep in salt, but I give fresh water a wide berth around here...


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## k-roc

Yeah I agree although I don't like to wade waist deep in stained water, especially in areas where I've seen sharks before!


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## johnmauser

I just put up the second part to our trip. It talks a bit about the freshwater fish we came across on the second half of the day we spent running down Tamiami. Thanks!

https://mauserflyfishing.com/blogs/blog/24-hour-tour-the-tamiami-trail-and-the-everglades-part-2


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## lemaymiami

Port of the Islands is a great place to launch from (good parking - but only two boat ramp, cheap ramp fee, etc. pretty nice accomodations as well...). The only place to be cautious around is right there where all the seawalls are since there are big, big 'gators that are quite used to people (and those are the 'gators I'd be wary of...). As long as you're in a boat - you're bigger than they are (in their world big guys eat little guys...). Once you're away from the seawall area you're golden as you move down into the wilderness of the 10K... Look at Fakahatchee Bay on charts and you'll see it's almost tailor made for someone in a micro or paddle craft.... The main reason that it doesn't get more attention is that 3 mile idle zone down the canal.... 

That area was where I learned to toss plugs at big snook in the seventies... back when it was called Remuda Ranch (before the owners back then got caught with a plane load of contraband...). All of the seawall corners at dawn and dusk are fishing spots - and there's usually a good population of resident small tarpon in the seawall area as well...

My spookiest close encounter with a big 'gator there was the afternoon when I was cleaning out my baitwell in a micro (early version micro built on a 16' aluminum Starcraft hull) with low transom and live well boxes we'd added to the stern... As I was dropping dead ladyfish at the rear of the skiff a big ten footer slowly surfaced about three or four feet from my hands - and could have been on me before I could have done a thing about it... After that I never disposed of bait back at the ramp - just not healthy... I do believe that it took several minutes before I was able to breathe again... That monster never made the slightest sound as it rose right behind me skiff to take advantage of the free food. Very bad scene....


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## Backwater

Believe me, they are not as wary as you thinK, especially the teenager ones (5-8ft). I've had them come right up to my hand as I was landing a bass once and had to smack it on the head with my 6wt.

I've had plenty of gator stories growing up that way, including having my 14ft jon boat swamped and almost capsized by a 12 footer, after I accidentally ran over it at dusk and couldn't hardly see it. Me and one of my best friends with me was only 15yrs old. The tail wack almost flipped the boat over.

Capt Lemay, you couldn't pay me to use a SUP in Port of the Isles or anywhere along 41 or the Alley. I've seen too many big ones that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. And that's coming from a guy who use to swim with an 8 footer at my house every afternoon for one summer.

RunningOnEmpty, I have not seen any crocs in the upper Glades, only Flamingo and inside Florida Bay. I know my way around gators, but I don't trust crocs at all!!! I don't like to see them Anywhere here in the States. They are an invasive specie that has come up from Cuba and I feel they all should be removed. They spook the hell outta me.

Back when I was a kid, my dad knew the owner of Gatorama in Palmdale and he'd take use boys to help move and feed the gators. Us boys use to help move the little ones into different pens and then shovel ground meat (ground up animal and fish parts that came from butchers and commercial catfish processors from Lake O) into their pens, including the big ones. They also had giant crocs, that would kill and eat any gator that they could get their chompers on. I saw that once and it was vicious! So I stay as far away from them as possible. 

Sooo.... SUP's? Nope! Not on the trail. Maybe the outter saltwater upper Glades. But other than that, higher sided canoes like an Old Town and Gheenoe type boats and small aluminum boats.

Ted


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## BM_Barrelcooker

I launched at port of the islands pretty regularly back in the 90’s. 

I usually stayed upstream of the weir and went inside in a gheenoe. A few times I went up as far as you possibly could go in the Fax as well as GG.
Great fly fishing up in there . Caught LmB, Oscar, Mayans ,redfish, snook, baby Tarpon, Gar and some HUGE crappie and bream. Never had any gator problems but the snakes were another story.

One crazy thing that I will never forget was driving back to Goodland one evening just after dark and it had gotten pretty chilly.
Kept feeling thumps as we drove and I thought I had a flat or a bad bearing on the trailer but it was inconsistent.

Hit the high beams and started seeming hundreds of every kind of snake you could imagine on the blacktop. 
They were coming from everywhere to warm themselves on the road.
It was creepy surreal.


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## k-roc

That's crazy about the snakes on the road!!! 
Well thanks for the info re "Remuda Ranch", I probably won't be SUPping there anytime soon, even below the weir!! And I obviously had no illusions of ever going above the weir.
I always wanted to try below as I've heard even the idle zone is full of poon, I've seen them rolling there even while i drive past on the bridge.
A guy I was chatting to told me he used to do manatee sightseeing tours there and they would see way more tarpon than manatees!


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## RunningOnEmpty

lemaymiami said:


> anyone fishing out of a paddle board in those areas should be required to have an observer, camera in hand - to document the fun you'll have when a big, big 'gator decides he likes your fish up close and personal...
> 
> I've seen big 'gators take herons standing up on top of a four foot tall seawall over at Port of the Islands (I still think of that place as Remuda Ranch...). You have to see it to believe one can lunge five feet in the air when they need to... Kind of makes primitive fly rod fishing a blood sport....


Port of the Islands is a very interesting place to fish in the raining season. Big snook, tarpon, sharks and plenty of big gators. I liked staying there well past dark and it was kinda sketchy in a gheenoe.


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## RunningOnEmpty

Backwater, I used to stay at a airboat camp in the Miccosukee reservation. Gators were just a normal everyday thing that didn't bother me too much. I agree with you on the crocks. I don't know anything about them and that concerns me. I know I've seen them on nature shows and that's enough for me.


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## BM_Barrelcooker

We used to canoe around the Collier Seminole state park . Good snook and tarpon in there but it’s kind of skinny .

My brother in law jumped a big tarpon in the mangroves there one time and flipped his canoe. Only thing he came out with was his flyrod. 

I’ve caught some good snook and medium heavy baby tarpon off the dock where the tour pontoon leaves. 

Lots of opportunity down there.


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## Backwater

Capt. Lemay, back when I was a kid, we'd stay in that lil motel in Remuda Ranch. We'd launch the ole Aquasport flat back and snook fish the fak until noon, then come back, eat lunch. After lunch we'd go across the road (41) and shoot skeet. Then if it was the fall, we'd drive down to a local farm field and shoot doves in the late afternoon. Then go hit the spillway in the evening.

Those were the days. There was a spot in the Fak where us boys and my dad would stop to cook up some lunch, usually have a fish fry with whatever we caught that morning on a sandbar across from a large osprey nest (dubbed "the Lunch Spot" by us). At that hole was a deep pocket where we'd always soak a few big baits (mullet, ladyfish, snapper, etc.) while we were having lunch and would always get on something big (big snook, tarpon, shark, jewfish, grouper, whatever). Good times!  When my dad was passing, back in the mid-90's, he asked us to sprinkle his ashes in the lunch spot, so we'd come to visit him from time to time.  We did.


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## formerWAflyfisher

I can comment on SUPing the canals along the trail. I’ve lived in Naples for almost 10 years. I use to use my SUP in the canals along the San Marco road close to 41 by the biker bar. Caught a lot of juvenile tarpon, one day last year the water was muddy closer to Goodland so I figured I try some ponds closer to the bar I know hold tarpon. Well I caught two then hooked a third closer to the middle of the pond and the fish was jumping everywhere. All the sudden I heard a huge splash maybe a couple hundred feet to left and kinda behind me. When I turned and looked over my shoulder what I originally thought was a dead tree on the bank launched itself into the water, it was a huge gator making a bow wake straight for me. I’ve been around a lot of gators but this felt very different. He just beelined straight for me. So broke the fish off and picked up my paddle and paddles flat out for the takeout about 300 feet away. The freaking gator gained on me and closed the distance to about 20-30 before I made land and jumped off and ripped the board up the bank. He just slowly sank down while staring at me. Any closer and I was gonna spin the board and have a face off. I figured I’d go down fighting, maybe I’d have a chance if I hit him between the eyes with the paddle. He was big, my board is 12 feet and he was longer. Funny thing though when I was fishing a van pulled up. After I was paddling my ass off and scrambling up the bank a couple of guys walked up to me sorta laughing and told me that that gator steals the chicken off their crab lines all the time. I wish I would have know that before I put in. I bought a 16 jon yesterday for fishing those areas now.


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## formerWAflyfisher

Oh and as for Crocs only being South. Two years ago FWC contracts pulled an 11 foot Croc out our pond in Lakewood in Naples (not to far from Airport and Davis) . I had very mixed feelings about them taking it. But when you walked the dog down the sidewalk it would follow you in the water a 100 feet away. I know some people will say you don’t know the diff, but I have seen both up close many times and this was certainly a croc. I can always get the pics off my wife’s phone too.


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## Canebrake51

Before Katrina destroyed my home in Mississippi we lived on a little stream/bayou that cut through the marsh. We had a gator in there that would swim along when I walked out in the yard. How my rascal Jack Russell terrier managed not to get eaten during his escapes in the marsh I do not know. This thread has pretty well convinced me that a small skiff is in my future.


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## crboggs

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Oh and as for Crocs only being South. Two years ago FWC contracts pulled an 11 foot Croc out our pond in Lakewood in Naples (not to far from Airport and Davis)


Could have been the same one pulled out of Lake Tarpon here in the Tampa area.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/enviro...pion-traveler-swimming-350-miles-from/2134961


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## Backwater

crboggs said:


> Could have been the same one pulled out of Lake Tarpon here in the Tampa area.
> 
> http://www.tampabay.com/news/enviro...pion-traveler-swimming-350-miles-from/2134961


Those bastards!


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## lemaymiami

I've actually had occasion to poke a 'gator or two with my pushpole when they were after my angler's fish.... Results? less than zero - it was literally like poking a tree -they're that hard (on top at least..). On one occasion, the animal simply backed up a foot or two - then hissed at me as though to say "poke me one more time and you're going to lose that pole...".

Remember that crocs and 'gators are different critters entirely... A 'gator coming to attack stays right at the surface - a croc always comes under the water where you can't see him coming... 'Gators build their nests up on top of the bank (composed of equal parts vegetation, sticks, leaves and dirt...) -a croc actually burrows into the bank to lay their eggs (and favor a soft sandy bank -that's why Turkey Point cooling canals were an ideal nesting area for them...). According to biologists the American saltwater crocodile is mostly a fish eater and have a passive quiet nature (but I don't think they've ever been able to study a big, big one...) 'Gators by comparison will eat anything they come across - and can be quite aggressive - particularly in spring spawning season... In all my years of running the 'Glades I've only encountered one croc up inside - they've got to be near saltwater to be happy - but I have encountered 'gators all the way out in saltwater (particularly around the rivers just south of Highland Beach, south of Lostman's River...). 

If you run the shoreline north of Cape Sable at dawn (where there are lots and lots of crocs...) you'll get to see them racing out of the bushes and across the sand to get to the safety of the water... They're literally racing along on their hind legs -quite a sight... The biggest croc I've ever seen though - was right across from the inside ramp at Flamingo a few years back sunning itself. It looked to be almost as long as my 17' skiff - but what caught my eye was its width - it looked to be three to four feet wide across its shoulders - a very big specimen. Never seen a 'gator that big... In summer, if you're at that inside boat ramp at Flamingo an hour or more before sunup (just you and all the skeeters in the world...) look for feeding crocs right at the boat ramp... They set up at right angles to the ramp with their noses about two feet off the ramp and their mouths open.... They never move until some mullet or other fish tries to cross over that open mouth - then it snaps shut and our crocs get another meal.... By the way that whole marina area at night has lots of crocs in it. Hook a baby tarpon at night there and you'll learn how much they love baby tarpon.,...


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## SomaliPirate

Once back in the 90's some tourists witnessed a great scene of me beating a 5 foot gator over the face with the end of a ultralight spinning rod over possession of a mayan cichlid I had hooked. It was on one of the canals right on 41 with a ramp and parking lot. The gator won, but I like to feel that I had my say too.


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## Backwater

Once in one of the canals by that defunked motel, turn gov't bldg off of 41 before you get to the Turner River, I was in my canoe and was moving thru that canal. So up on the right bank was a huge albino gator (maybe 11-12ft). It was just lying there sunning himself and I've never seen one in the wild before. When I got right straight out in front of it as I was passing by (about 30ft away), it lunged out into the water with a huge splash like a torpedo straight at the canoe, but submarined in my direction. So once it launched into the water, I couldn't see it anymore.. Needless to say, I hauled ass as fast as I could down the canal and didn't look back. It creeped me out like a croc would.


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## formerWAflyfisher

Backwater those experiences are good for you. Gets the blood pumping and let’s you know your alive. Also gives you a sense of your place in the world, you could be predator or prey at any moment. Plus gives you some stories to talk about. Otherwise fishing might be boring......


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## BM_Barrelcooker

One time we had launched upstream of the weir by that old creepy looking hotel ( last time I drove thru the place had been made into a neighborhood ) .
Back then a bunch of old dudes had fifth wheel trailers and would sling bait off the dock or sea wall.

We had been way up the canals in the
Woods fly fishing for snook and lmb.
We had found a rubber alligator about 3 feet long and I put it in the boat.

On the way back we drove slow by the sea wall and some of the old codgers shrugged their shoulders and gave us the universal fisherman’s ( you do any good ?)gesture.

I reached down between my legs and grabbed that rubber gator by the tail like it was alive and held it up for a second them lobbed it up on the dock.
Old farts all shit their drawers and took off running. We laughed until we cried but they were waiting for us at the ramp .

I still laugh every time I think about it.


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## Backwater

BM_Barrelcooker said:


> One time we had launched upstream of the weir by that old creepy looking hotel ( last time I drove thru the place had been made into a neighborhood ) .
> Back then a bunch of old dudes had fifth wheel trailers and would sling bait off the dock or sea wall.
> 
> We had been way up the canals in the
> Woods fly fishing for snook and lmb.
> We had found a rubber alligator about 3 feet long and I put it in the boat.
> 
> On the way back we drove slow by the sea wall and some of the old codgers shrugged their shoulders and gave us the universal fisherman’s ( you do any good ?)gesture.
> 
> I reached down between my legs and grabbed that rubber gator by the tail like it was alive and held it up for a second them lobbed it up on the dock.
> Old farts all shit their drawers and took off running. We laughed until we cried but they were waiting for us at the ramp .
> 
> I still laugh every time I think about it.


Now that's freakin nuts!


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## hipshot

Backwater said:


> Believe me, they are not as wary as you thinK, especially the teenager ones (5-8ft). I've had them come right up to my hand as I was landing a bass once and had to smack it on the head with my 6wt.
> 
> I've had plenty of gator stories growing up that way, including having my 14ft jon boat swamped and almost capsized by a 12 footer, after I accidentally ran over it at dusk and couldn't hardly see it. Me and one of my best friends with me was only 15yrs old. The tail wack almost flipped the boat over.
> 
> Capt Lemay, you couldn't pay me to use a SUP in Port of the Isles or anywhere along 41 or the Alley. I've seen too many big ones that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. And that's coming from a guy who use to swim with an 8 footer at my house every afternoon for one summer.
> 
> RunningOnEmpty, I have not seen any crocs in the upper Glades, only Flamingo and inside Florida Bay. I know my way around gators, but I don't trust crocs at all!!! I don't like to see them Anywhere here in the States. They are an invasive specie that has come up from Cuba and I feel they all should be removed. They spook the hell outta me.
> 
> Back when I was a kid, my dad knew the owner of Gatorama in Palmdale and he'd take use boys to help move and feed the gators. Us boys use to help move the little ones into different pens and then shovel ground meat (ground up animal and fish parts that came from butchers and commercial catfish processors from Lake O) into their pens, including the big ones. They also had giant crocs, that would kill and eat any gator that they could get their chompers on. I saw that once and it was vicious! So I stay as far away from them as possible.
> 
> Sooo.... SUP's? Nope! Not on the trail. Maybe the outter saltwater upper Glades. But other than that, higher sided canoes like an Old Town and Gheenoe type boats and small aluminum boats.
> 
> Ted


Not sure saltwater crocs are an invasive species. If I remember correctly, they were at one time indigenous to extreme south Florida. Back in the sixties when I was running all over south Florida, we were under the impression that they were extinct from that part of the world. And glad of it. The salt crocs I saw in Indonesia and Australia were very scary..... Anyway, we never saw any in Florida and never knew anyone who had. I was quite surprised to learn only a few years ago that they are there now.


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## Backwater

Biologist suggest that a few swam over from Cuba (DNA showed similarities). Another theory is that the majority of reptiles that came into the U.S. from South America, came into the Miami area (by vessels and planes) and were then sold throughout the country to zoos as well as gator and reptile exhibits. Some were staged up in a croc farm in Homestead to be sold later. But in the early 60's Hurricane Donna hit South Florida hard from the east and wiped out south Miami and Homestead. Some or all of those crocs escaped into the Florida Bay area, hence the problem. My dad and grandfather grew up in the south Miami area and none said they ever saw them back then (pre-60's).


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## hipshot

How big are they getting here? Are they as aggressive as the ones we had in Indonesia?


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## RunningOnEmpty

hipshot said:


> How big are they getting here? Are they as aggressive as the ones we had in Indonesia?


I don't think so, but I'm still keeping plenty of safe distance.


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## lemaymiami

The biggest one I ever saw was right across the canal from the inside boat ramp at Flamingo - sunning himself (males are the biggest specimens ?) on the bank right next to the entrance to the area the Rangers keep their boats. My skiff is nearly 17' long and this guy was just about that long... Here's the real impression I got - the thing was so big that it was roughly four feet across the back at the shoulders... It was only there for a day or two then disappeared for other parts.

Once again -they're not aggressive like a big 'gator (unless you have a small tarpon on the line in the marina area....). The biologists tell us that the American saltwater crocodile is mostly a fish eater and not aggressive... But I still have reservations since they've been seen down in canals in the Keys with dogs in their jaws... Unknown whether the dog was killed by the croc or just dead floating and scavenged up... My reservations stem from the fact that I don't believe they've ever been able to study a really big croc in the wild...

Those at 'gator parks remembering seeing big crocs that were super aggressive were probably looking at Nile crocodiles - those things are deadly dangerous, period..... and don't look much different from an American saltie....


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## Vertigo

Funny thing...as a boy in the '50s when gator hunting was unrestricted, my dad, uncle, my cousins and I fished pretty much the whole length of the Trail and never saw an alligator. Many years (late 70's or early 80's) I drove the Trail and was amazed to see alligators every mile.

OTOH, in the 50's, cars driving US 27 or 41 thru the glades usually had to stop every 20 or 30 miles to clean the bug residue off windshields and headlights, and filling stations sold special radiator nets to keep the bugs out. It was not rare to see an airboat cross the highway in front of cars.

Then no gators and lots of bugs. Now gators and no bugs. Then melaleuca trees were rare ornamentals, now they're massively invasive. No doubt that man's activities and decisions have greatly changed the environment.


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## wmw4

While the subject is up I might have the opportunity to spend a couple days in naples with the canoe in late april/ early may as a reward for living through another tax season. Any suggestions for snook or baby tarpon patterns? Going to have a lot more tying than fishing time over the next couple months


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## timogleason

wmw4 said:


> While the subject is up I might have the opportunity to spend a couple days in naples with the canoe in late april/ early may as a reward for living through another tax season. Any suggestions for snook or baby tarpon patterns? Going to have a lot more tying than fishing time over the next couple months


Gurglers, Deer hair sliders.


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## paulrad

hipshot said:


> How big are they getting here? Are they as aggressive as the ones we had in Indonesia?


I was canoeing once down in flamingo area in this canal, when this big croc splashed into the water just ahead of us. I only knew it was a croc because it didn't go under and I could plainly see that it was a croc - not a gator. This thing just splashed into the water and didn't go under trying to hide or get away from me. I found that to be a bit disconcerting so I turned the boat around and didn't try to push through because he obviously considered that canal to be his and he didn't appear to want to share it with me.


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## msmith719

Those crocs have been here at least as long as gators according to skeletons and bones found all over S. FL. They're considered a native species just like alligators. I was born and raised in S. FL and my Dad was a licensed gator hunter in the Glades until we moved to Ft. Pierce in the mid fifties, then we trapped gators around St. Lucie, Martin and Okeechobee Counties. In the 50s there were still a few crocs in S. FL but most had been caught or killed. One of my uncles lived in Marathon on the bay side and had a 10 footer that lived under his dock; my aunt would never let us kids go down to the water without an adult going along. Although they may have originally swam over from Cuba it's likely they were here even before inhabiting Cuba and they're one of 2 croc species in Cuba. American crocs exist in Mexico and every Central American country and all the way to Ecuador on the West and to Brazil on the East. Considering that crocs are native to Mexico also it's unlikely that they're a recent invasive critter in FL!


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## lemaymiami

Here's a bug or two I'd use along the trail with a #1 hook as the largest - #4 or #2 much more workable...
The Speedbug (or any small popper with a #1 hook)








the Crystal Schminnow (my version) in size #4 (not just in white - some dark colors as well








the Seaducer (my version with a wire weedguard) in any color or color combination - no bigger than a #2...









Lastly (and no pics for these...) would be maribou muddlers and/or Conner's Glades minnow... 

hope this helps


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