# Backing question



## Will Poston (Dec 26, 2016)

Rigging up for an upcoming tarpon trip and want a little more backing than my reel can handle with the tarpon line. Gel-spun seems too pricey. I have read that people don't have any issues using power pro in 60-80 pound line strengths. any input would be appreciated.

-WP


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

You will get varying responses from gel-spun to braid or hallow core. Depends on what you want to spend and deal with. For me, I use 50 or 60lb braid but fully aware it can cut me if I am not careful but get more capacity. I can manage that but some cant. Hollow core is more pricy than gel spun but allows a splice. Just sit back and take it all in. Also, the search feature will bring up previous topics on this


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

^ pretty much this. Braid is cheaper and thinner but will cut you to the bone if you are not careful. If you are confident in your line management then go for it! If not, shell out the coin for gel spun or Hatch Premium.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Gawd no, don't use Power Pro! With wet hands, the braid from PP will cut like a band saw if you accidentally touch the backing on a hot greyhounding fish. I've seen fingers cut down to the bone. I've also seen this with gel spuns. 

The real question is.... what reel and backing capacity do you have with what flyline? How much backing capacity do you suspect you have with that flyline in relation to the diameter of 30lb Dacron? What size tarpon are you targeting in what kind of area and conditions that justify more backing usage?

My favorite tarpon backing over the years (quality & diameter vs price) is Cortland's Micron 30lb, which is smooth compares to other backing and is about 25% less dia than standard Dacron backing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cortland-Mi...hash=item5686bc1960:m:myAOP4k0j65Hqm27E9cd8xA

There are some newer backings that I really like now too tho. But price will go up significantly (like between $80-$85). One of them is the Rio's 2 tone GSP 50lb Backing (2 tone, as in red blended into yellow and back and forth (almost like an odd color camo line)) Yes it's gel spun but it's cutting ability is low and the diameter is equal to 20lb Dacron. But it's $85 clams for a spool of 300yrds.

https://www.rioproducts.com/products/accessories/fly-line-backing-2-tone-gel

I'm really starting to like the benefits of the Toro Tamer Hollow Core 16 strand braided line for $80 for a 300meter spool. It is silky smooth as well and lays flat, so it provides good capacity and the flatness of it makes it wider, so it's ability to cut you or cut into the spool is significantly reduces. The 50lb is about a little more diameter than 20lb Dacron and the 60lb is a little less diameter than 30lb Dacron. But both will lay flat on the spool and it allows a little more capacity. Plus it's cutting ability is the lowest I've tested so far. Also, with the right size splicing needle, you can splice it into your flyline to make a knotless connection from backing to fly line. I personally haven't tried that trick yet, but if I did, I would splice in a loop with it on the fly line, running the hollow core braid up 3ft on the flyline and splice in the loop about 6" past the fly line. Then splice in a long loop on the backing end and connect the 2 with a loop to loop connection.

http://www.charkbait.com/cs/CSHL-TT-Braid.htm

Also Checkout the Sunline 100% Fluorocarbon leader on that same website. Good stuff!

Please remember to learn and pay attention on how to apply more pressure to your reel with palming techniques that don't allow your fingers to touch the line or get wacked by the handle. 


Good luck!


Ted Haas


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Jerry Brown 65# is what I have recently gone to. I use the solid because its way cheaper than the hollow core and there are effective ways to connect the backing to the fly line w/o a splice. Splices are nice but to me not worth it for one connection. And the stuff lasts forever.

And FWIW I have several reels that have 60# power pro on then including my big game reel and I have never had an issue with getting cut. Best lesson - learn how to fish correctly and keep your hands off the line when a fish is running......bad technique and yes it can cut you.

Jerry Brown 65# (and 50 is fine too) is 0.016 in in diameter.
SA 30# backing is 0.024 in in diameter

So there is a 50% increase in capacity between Jerry Brown 65# and SA 30# and even more difference if you use 50# Jerry Brown. The only reason I went with the 65# is I got a really good deal on a bulk spool. And there is one other advantage to using braid type backing. Your retrieve rate stays much higher compared to using dacron as the spool diameter doesn't decrease as fast.

All IMHO of course.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

Unless you are not fishing from a skiff, standard Dacron capacity on a Tarpon reel will be fine.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Don't get me started on the 16 strand hollow core spectra. It's far better than anything else out there. Been using power pro hollow ace 40 for several years. Just picked up a spool of toro tamer 50 lb. It's definitely softer without the waxy texture but seems a bit bigger than 20 lb dacron. 

No reason to use solid braided spectra, doesn't lay flat, digs into itself, cuts your fingers....


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

X2 for the Jerry Brown but I use the ONE hollow core spectra. It's spliceable, lays flat, smooth and lasts indefinitely . Have it on all my #10 and larger reels and use micron on smaller rigs. I use #60 but blind splice a 50' lenght of #100 as top shot (the portion that gets handled most) and insert a 12" lenght of #60 inside the #100 before making a double catch reversed spliced loop to attach to the braided mono loop in the fly line. One thing you need to do with the super thin backing so it doesn't dig into itself and cause problems is to apply considerable ammount of pressure when windig it on the reel and make frequent passes right across the width of the spool.
I know it's a lot of work and arguable over kill but I like rigging almost as much as I enjoy fishing or fly tying.


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## postonatlc (Sep 28, 2010)

Will Poston said:


> Rigging up for an upcoming tarpon trip and want a little more backing than my reel can handle with the tarpon line. Gel-spun seems too pricey. I have read that people don't have any issues using power pro in 60-80 pound line strengths. any input would be appreciated.
> 
> -WP


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## postonatlc (Sep 28, 2010)

Will, which Poston are you? I'm here in Lake City, SC.

Don't like braid for backing.

Use 30# dacron for backing for Tarpon. You should use a heavy mono (30#) 50 yds. between leader and backing for stretching. (Dacron, gelspun, nor braid don't stretch and you will need it with a good tarpon).
If you are close by touch base 

Ronnie Poston, Lake City, SC


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

postonatlc said:


> Will, which Poston are you? I'm here in Lake City, SC.
> 
> Don't like braid for backing.
> 
> ...


Your flyline does that and make a good shock absorber. The backing is thinner and puts less pressure on the tippet when dragging under water when the fish cuts to the side.


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## TailingLoop (Mar 15, 2017)

ifsteve said:


> Jerry Brown 65# is what I have recently gone to. I use the solid because its way cheaper than the hollow core and there are effective ways to connect the backing to the fly line w/o a splice. Splices are nice but to me not worth it for one connection. And the stuff lasts forever.
> 
> And FWIW I have several reels that have 60# power pro on then including my big game reel and I have never had an issue with getting cut. Best lesson - learn how to fish correctly and keep your hands off the line when a fish is running......bad technique and yes it can cut you.
> 
> ...


X3 on Jerry Brown. I use the non hollow. 30# on the 6-9wt. 50# on 10-12 wts. 

I know it's not cheap, but if you're after tarpon, worth it.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

postonatlc said:


> You should use a heavy mono (30#) 50 yds. between leader and backing for stretching.


50yds 30 pound of Mono? You can not be serious. Fly line stretches, proper leaders stretch, fly rods bend. Those are plenty of shock absorbers wether the fish is 100ft or 10 feet from the boat. Adding 50yds of Mono is not only wrong but will add an incredible amount of access drag in the water. Plus, mono should never be used as backing in any amount as it can damage a fly reel spool.


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

A short lenght of mono attached between fly line and spectra or dacron backing is commonly used for Sailfish fly rigs however it's not common on Tarpon rigs and a short lenght of mono will not damage a fly reel spools. Mono running lines with shooting heads is another common practice with no risk of spool damage and only if you load a considerable ammount of mono will you risk spool damage from line expansion.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> And FWIW I have several reels that have 60# power pro on then including my big game reel and I have never had an issue with getting cut. Best lesson - learn how to fish correctly and keep your hands off the line when a fish is running......bad technique and yes it can cut you.


When a big poon starts screaming drag, all intelligents goes flying out the window with some guys I've seen and they end up doing stupid things. Better safe up front than sorry later.




backbone said:


> Unless you are not fishing from a skiff, standard Dacron capacity on a Tarpon reel will be fine.


You or I might be able to keep a big girl on a short leash in a skiff, but there are some people in certain circumstances where 200-250yrs of backing might not be enough with a hot ocean side fish on the run, especially doing it solo or having an inexperienced buddy in the boat as their operator and thinking he/she knows exactly what do do. 

I lost my biggest poon ever because the guy I went with was inexperienced and couldn't get things going quick enough before I lost her. I had it locked down and she still melted 300yrds of backing off my reel (and when I mean off, I mean gone!) She was a true giant!  So it's good to have a little insurance just "in-case!"


Speaking of Backbone, he just landed a pig of a cobia on fly, lookin for poons. Hopefully, we'll see the pic.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Just a heads up for the hollow guys as I am giving this a go as well. Seaguar Threadlock is very nice and the green and some yellow is on a blowout price on seaguar site. I grabbed a 600yd spool for $45.99 with shipping. They have 2500yd spools too. Here is the link. https://seaguar.com/shop-direct/shop_seaguar/threadlock.html


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

That's super cheap


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

backbone said:


> Unless you are not fishing from a skiff, standard Dacron capacity on a Tarpon reel will be fine.


Or any other reel for any species from a skiff.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

This may not be an issue anymore with modern rods/guides, but pretty sure braid used to cut through poorer quality guides over time. Obviously if the braid creates small grooves in your guides, that's gunna chafe the hell out of your fly line, and may even cause your line to fail. 

Probably no longer an issue with a modern, well-made rod with good guides, but maybe something to consider if you had an older piece and were thinking of loading it with braid.

Ever seen what a piece of kevlar string can do to metal? Same idea.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

nativejax said:


> Just a heads up for the hollow guys as I am giving this a go as well. Seaguar Threadlock is very nice and the green and some yellow is on a blowout price on seaguar site. I grabbed a 600yd spool for $45.99 with shipping. They have 2500yd spools too. Here is the link. https://seaguar.com/shop-direct/shop_seaguar/threadlock.html


What stated pound test did you order? Where did you get that deal? I'd like to get a 10ft piece of that to test it against the other 2 hollow cores. PM me.

As mentioned below, one of my test has to do with being able to cut ( or the lack thereof), as well as smoothness and texture. At 5hat pound test, I'm nor so worried about breaking strenght from stated 50-65lb test (since more flylines are tested at 30-40lb test). I alse am looking for dia size and how flat and wide it lays.

Ted


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

sjrobin said:


> Or any other reel for any species from a skiff.


You are right Steve. Most inshore species will keep runs below 50yrds of backing, with the flyline out of the guides. I have had unusual situations where you are fishing 9 & 10wts in deep water or offshore and a large pelagic grabs the fly and decides it does'st want to hang out in that county anymore. Also overseas, like with GT's and other exotics. But for here, inshore species (except for large tarpon) no problems.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Backwater said:


> What stated pound test did you order? Where did you get that deal? I'd like to get a 10ft piece of that to test it against the other 2 hollow cores. PM me.
> 
> As mentioned below, one of my test has to do with being able to cut ( or the lack thereof), as well as smoothness and texture. At 5hat pound test, I'm nor so worried about breaking strenght from stated 50-65lb test (since more flylines are tested at 30-40lb test). I alse am looking for dia size and how flat and wide it lays.
> 
> Ted


Seaguar is in the process of closing out the Green color since it does not sell like the yellow and blue which makes since for the trolling guys. I do not really care about color and is a lighter green than other green braids. 

I will PM you and happy to send you a little bit as I put 300yds on my riptide and 275yds on my everglades


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

nativejax said:


> I put 300yds on my riptide and 275yds on my everglades


Sounds like the dia. of that 50lb hollow core Seaguar is equivilant size of 20lb standard Micron, or smaller.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Sounds **** the dia. of that 50lb hollow core Seaguar is equivilant size of 20lb standard Micron, or smaller.


think I'll have to order some!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

nativejax said:


> Seaguar is in the process of closing out the Green color since it does not sell like the yellow and blue which makes since for the trolling guys. I do not really care about color and is a lighter green than other green braids.
> 
> I will PM you and happy to send you a little bit as I put 300yds on my riptide and 275yds on my everglades



Can you post up a picture of the spool so we can see the color?


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

el9surf said:


> Can you post up a picture of the spool so we can see the color?


Here it is on my satin gold everglades with Rio Redfish, just to give color references.


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## Tailer (Jan 10, 2017)

Hollow core braid makes for great backing. I used Jerry Brown for a long time, but there are cheaper alternatives on the market today. I like the Toro Tamer that Backwater mentioned. 

I usually put a 50-100yd section of 30# micron on top of the braid before the fly line. The first 50 yards or so are the most likely to wear or break off, so it's nice to have that section of cheaper micron in there you can change out every season. You can see my setup in the photo I attached. That's 30# blue micron on top of hollow braid, and you can even see where I replaced about 40 yds this spring after a break-off.

View media item 1667


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks for the line on the seaguar hollow core! Picked up a 600 yard spool of yellow 60lb for stupid cheap. I've been trying to find something good to load my Gulfstream with for a while and I think that stuff is the ticket


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

Can someone familiar with both products do a comparison between the Seaguar Threadlock that's on clearance and the Jerry Brown Line One. I have the JB on some of my reels and really like it's soft texture and the fact that it lays out flat in the spool but I have no experience whatsoeve. Don't want to miss out on the Threadlock clearance price if it has the right properties.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

sidelock said:


> Where are you guys buying the Seaguar hollow core at a discount if I may ask ?


Right from their site. Only available in green or yellow currently but here is the link: https://seaguar.com/shop-direct/shop_seaguar/threadlock.html


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Is the Seaguar hollow core large enough to make a knotless connection to 10wt fly line?

I would consider picking it up not just for backing, but also to connect fly line to backing and fly line to leader butt section. I'm guessing you wouldn't need any fancy needles if you aren't splicing loops in it...


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

bryson said:


> Is the Seaguar hollow core large enough to make a knotless connection to 10wt fly line?
> 
> I would consider picking it up not just for backing, but also to connect fly line to backing and fly line to leader butt section. I'm guessing you wouldn't need any fancy needles if you aren't splicing loops in it...


No point in buying it if you aren't going to utilize the splices. They are super easy to do, you need 1 daho needle with a loop on the back and a crimped piece of 10 lb mono.


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