# Tarpon Handling



## sjrobin

Not good. The angler should lean outside the skiff for the pic, not pull the tarpon into the pic. I will say that red drum if they are not boga gripped or netted will do ok coming completely out of the water for quick photos and released.


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## bryson

I agree with you -- while all 3 pics might be technically legal, I say the captain's actions in the 2nd and 3rd picture probably do more damage than taking it out of the water completely.


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## MariettaMike

I know this is the pic most anglers want, but even it is lifting the majority of the fish out of the water by the guts>



I think this is the least damaging method, but you know the guide had to tap out the fish before letting the youngster hold it without gloves.


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## Megalops

Mike, I agree with you, try to keep them in the water. With that said, I'm not sure what the damage or mortality rate is by snapping a quick pic. Mouth gaffing, towing a 1/2 mile in, sticking it in a weigh sling; big difference in my mind.


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## MariettaMike

Megalops said:


> Mike, I agree with you, try to keep them in the water. With that said, I'm not sure what the damage or mortality rate is by snapping a quick pic. Mouth gaffing, towing a 1/2 mile in, sticking it in a weigh sling; big difference in my mind.


Agreed...in hindsight I guess the "snag" hooking was the biggest problem the BTT had against the PTTS.

It seems the PTTS is still going but have removed lip gaffing, towing, and sling weighing and do the length/girth method.

http://www.pttstv.com/category_s/41.htm
http://www.pttstv.com/category_s/122.htm

What's ironic is the one thing that I think drives anglers to catch tarpon is how they jump out of the water....go figure.


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## Backwater

MariettaMike said:


> Agreed...in hindsight I guess the "snag" hooking was the biggest problem the BTT had against the PTTS.
> 
> It seems the PTTS is still going but have removed lip gaffing, towing, and sling weighing and do the length/girth method.
> 
> http://www.pttstv.com/category_s/41.htm
> http://www.pttstv.com/category_s/122.htm
> 
> What's ironic is the one thing that I think drives anglers to catch tarpon is how they jump out of the water....go figure.


It wasn't snag hooking.... You're only getting "hear say!" 

Just sayin.


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## Backwater

I have plenty of pics where we lifting big tarpon completely straight up and out of the water for pics. Same with snook We all did it. But I started to change about 16 yrs ago when an old but really good tarpon guide name Capt. James Wisner started talking to me about leaving them in the water. Slowly, I rolled into that method. Heck, you think that's bad, I remember walking throw the Sherwood forest of hanging tarpon on tournament days at Whidden's and Millers Marina in Boca Grande, back many years ago in the 70's when I was a teen. That happened well into the 80's We've all come a long ways. It's all about education and care for the fish.

Nevertheless, I can tell you I've never lost a fish due to mishandling it, even if it was lifted up for a quick pic.. I've always revived them properly before releasing them and doing in an area where it will not get shanked by a shark.

You have a pic there of CA Richardson. I've met him several times and I can tell you he's conservation minded. Putting that fish's head on the gunnell wouldn't kill him. But as things progress, we all know that water pics and releases are better for the fish in the long run. I'm sure that's what he does mostly these days too, just like the rest of us.

Tarpon are tough and hardier than you think but they still deserve to be treated properly.

Here's an example of one of the last fish we lip gaffed back about 15yrs ago. This was my buddy Kevin's biggest fish (around 180lbs). Released with no problems.



Even ole Rob Fordyce was know for straight picking up poons for that perfect photo shot, pickin up my buddy's poon back in `98 and showin off his new Hellsbay! Rob was known for that pose. Hey, weight lifting wasn't the only thing he did to build those shoulders!



If you ask him too, he'll tell you he's never lost a fish due to that either.

There use to be a practice to pull a scale off as a trophy. I have quite a few. Never really put much thought into it until I started educating myself more about the fish and found out it can cause an infection where the missing scale was, even tho ugh they eventually grow new ones back.

Again, these are days long gone. Education changes the outlook with people and helps conservation for generations to come.

The fade was in the late 90's that you stop lip gaffing. Then we stopped hauling them out of the water, then only gunnel pics, then water pics. Even went to just leader breaking them off (but I likes removing the hook or fly).

Here's Stu Apte in the late 90's posing for that shot. We were all guilty of it. HE just got indocrinated into the IGFA and BTT Hall of Fame.



Here's a vintage pic of George Hommell.



He was honored by the BTT at his funeral a couple of years ago.

http://midcurrent.com/2013/09/03/george-hommell-dies/

Even the most well recognized was guilty of it.



Of course, Ole George didn't know that wasn't so good for the fish.

Neither did we all know back then, including myself.



But as well learn, we change for the good!



Till we get it right!

 Circa 2001 

Again, education and conservation is what it's all about and how we evolve as a "good Sportsman!"

Ted Haas


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## MariettaMike

Backwater said:


> I have plenty of pics where we lifting big tarpon completely straight up and out of the water for pics. Same with snook We all did it. But I started to change about 16 yrs ago when an old but really good tarpon guide name Capt. James Wisner started talking to me about leaving them in the water. Slowly, I rolled into that method. Heck, you think that's bad, I remember walking throw the Sherwood forest of hanging tarpon on tournament days at Whidden's and Millers Marina in Boca Grande, back many years ago in the 70's when I was a teen. That happened well into the 80's We've all come a long ways. It's all about education and care for the fish.
> 
> Nevertheless, I can tell you I've never lost a fish due to mishandling it, even if it was lifted up for a quick pic.. I've always revived them properly before releasing them and doing in an area where it will not get shanked by a shark.
> 
> You have a pic there of CA Richardson. I've met him several times and I can tell you he's conservation minded. Putting that fish's head on the gunnell wouldn't kill him. But as things progress, we all knot that water pics and releases are better for the fish in the long run. I'm sure that's what he does mostly these days too, just like the rest of us.
> 
> Tarpon are harder than you think but they still deserve to be treated properly.
> 
> Here's an example of one of the last fish we lip gaffed back about 15yrs ago. This was my buddy Kevin's biggest fish (around 180lbs). Released with no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Even ole Rob Fordyce was know for straight picking up poons for that perfect photo shot, pickin up a buddy's poon back in `98. showin off his new Hellsbay! Hey, weight lifting wasn't the only thing he did to build those shoulders!
> 
> 
> 
> If you ask him too, he'll tell you he's never lost a fish due to that either.
> 
> There use to be a practice to pull a scale off as a trophy. I have quite a few. Never really put much thought into it until I started educating myself more about the fish and found out it can cause an infection where the missing scale was, even tho ugh they eventually grow new ones back.
> 
> Again, these are days long gone. Education changes the outlook with people and helps conservation for generations to come.
> 
> The fade was in the late 90's that you stop lip gaffing. Then we stopped hauling them out of the water, then only gunnel pics, then water pics. Even went to just leader breaking them off (but I likes removing the hook or fly).
> 
> Here's Stu Apte in the late 90's posing for that shot. We were all guilty of it. HE just got indocrinated into the IGFA and BTT Hall of Fame.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a vintage pic of George Hommell.
> 
> 
> 
> He was honored by the BTT at his funeral a couple of years ago.
> 
> http://midcurrent.com/2013/09/03/george-hommell-dies/
> 
> Again, education and conservation is what it's all about and how we evolve as a "good Sportsman!"
> 
> Ted Haas


Ted,

Do you think the FWC regs need more detail regarding tarpon handling?

Mike


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## Backwater

MariettaMike said:


> Ted,
> 
> Do you think the FWC regs need more detail regarding tarpon handling?
> 
> Mike


I don't think we need more gov't involved in our fishing. It's already bad enough and they spent untold millions on the Boca Grande jig fishing thing alone and didn't accomplish crap. Set limits for fishery improvement but keep the gov't out of how to handle them. Otherwise, you'll have "the man" around every corner and at every boat ramp hassling folks. Besides, there's no way to police it, just like texting and driving. A ticket is not going to stop them. But education will.

Conservation thru education is what is needed. You, me, the old guys who teach the new comers into the sport and the young. That's how the word gets out and the standard is set.

Now if we can only get more government out of Washington.... 

Ted Haas


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## GullsGoneWild

swimming away fine is an old wives tale. While the fish may look good on release, the end result may be mortality from the stress or actual damage to internal organs.


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## GullsGoneWild

shoot. something happened and that was not my intended post.

This is what I was trying to post. The below excerpt is from a thread on 2coolfishing under the TX tarpon thread. The excerpt is a response from a Project Tarpon member in a discussion about handling fish for pics. Someone commented that the tarpon swan away fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *mikedeleon* 
Just my 2 cents, but having been involved with trips where satellite tags are put on fish such as these, data and GPS movements show that these tarpon can sit for days after being caught. In places like Florida where sharks are prevalent this can be bad news for a resting fish. Just because it swam away fine doesn't really mean a thing. Everyone is different, it's just a matter of doing what you can in the moment. 

Scott you might be able to expand on that more. 

Scott's response:
Rogo - swimming away fine is an old wives tale. Means nothing. I have released fish with satellite tags that swam away fine and died immediately. I have also released fish that I was convinced would die and didn't. The bottom line is that you have to give it the best chance. There is a reason Florida has outlawed removing large tarpon from the water for a photo. The biologist convinced state wildlife managers of the highly increased level of mortality following lifting a large tarpon out of the water. Doing so causes the release of stress hormones and other acids into the blood stream. While the fish may look good on release, the end result may be mortality from the stress or actual damage to internal organs. Best to leave it in the water and give it the best chance possible. Did this fish die? Well, the fish is likely the only one that knows the answer to that question, however, I can say as a matter of fact, his chances of dying increased exponentially by lifting it out of the water. I will again say, that I don't think it's these anglers' fault. They didn't likely know any better and with all the BS tarpon photos around with people doing this for years in Florida, how would they know any better.

You can get just as good a photo with the fish in the water. Go look at Mark Bennett's instagram page and you'll see http://www.instagram.com/capt.markbennett/
__________________















 
Scott


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## Backwater

GullsGoneWild said:


> swimming away fine is an old wives tale. While the fish may look good on release, the end result may be mortality from the stress or actual damage to internal organs.


Speculation! You have no idea what a tarpon goes through.


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## Backwater

GullsGoneWild said:


> shoot. something happened and that was not my intended post.
> 
> This is what I was trying to post. The below excerpt is from a thread on 2coolfishing under the TX tarpon thread. The excerpt is a response from a Project Tarpon member in a discussion about handling fish for pics. Someone commented that the tarpon swan away fine.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikedeleon*
> Just my 2 cents, but having been involved with trips where satellite tags are put on fish such as these, data and GPS movements show that these tarpon can sit for days after being caught. In places like Florida where sharks are prevalent this can be bad news for a resting fish. Just because it swam away fine doesn't really mean a thing. Everyone is different, it's just a matter of doing what you can in the moment.
> 
> Scott you might be able to expand on that more.
> 
> Scott's response:
> Rogo - swimming away fine is an old wives tale. Means nothing. I have released fish with satellite tags that swam away fine and died immediately. I have also released fish that I was convinced would die and didn't. The bottom line is that you have to give it the best chance. There is a reason Florida has outlawed removing large tarpon from the water for a photo. The biologist convinced state wildlife managers of the highly increased level of mortality following lifting a large tarpon out of the water. Doing so causes the release of stress hormones and other acids into the blood stream. While the fish may look good on release, the end result may be mortality from the stress or actual damage to internal organs. Best to leave it in the water and give it the best chance possible. Did this fish die? Well, the fish is likely the only one that knows the answer to that question, however, I can say as a matter of fact, his chances of dying increased exponentially by lifting it out of the water. I will again say, that I don't think it's these anglers' fault. They didn't likely know any better and with all the BS tarpon photos around with people doing this for years in Florida, how would they know any better.
> 
> You can get just as good a photo with the fish in the water. Go look at Mark Bennett's instagram page and you'll see http://www.instagram.com/capt.markbennett/
> __________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott


Again, I agree that it's important to give the fish the best chance for survival.

This is who I eventually learned from. http://www.tarponwiz.com There are only a very few handful of people that can say they's caught more tarpon than James. Thousands!


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## Backwater

I know a local Tampa bay guide that also guides Boca Grande and his usual MO back in the day was to slowly work the client's fish into shark alley and let the hammerheads and bull sharks come tear up the fish they were lolly gagging with it, blood everywhere, for the "shock and awe" purpose for his clients. He use to brag how good his tips would be because of it. But he quit that a few years ago once the FWC started watching closely what was going on in the pass. I use to yell at him for that! I don't know if I could accuse him publicly or not.


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## MariettaMike

Backwater said:


> ..... But he quit that a few years ago once the FWC started watching closely what was going on in the pass. I use to yell at him for that!...


You say leave the gov't out and let us do the teaching but then admit someone you knew wouldn't listen to you and it took FWC presence to change their behavior. Seems like you proved why "the man" is needed based on your own experience.. Jus say'n.


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## c_ronius

Backwater said:


> I can tell you I've never lost a fish due to mishandling it, even if it was lifted up for a quick pic..
> 
> 
> Speculation! How could you possibly know that.


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## DuckNut

There was a study in Canada that showed 16% mortality of catch and release.

There was a study in Michigan that showed the mortality rate of fish caught on live bait was significantly higher than those caught on artificial.

The Canadian report went on to state that people would continue to fish even after they had their limit with complete disregard for fish fish mortality even though they were practicing proper catch and release techniques. Proposed to end fishing when limits were attained.

Bottom line...every fish caught is at risk of death.


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## WillW

I'm confused, isn't BTT spending lots of money tagging fish & taking samples in order to see what these fish "go through". If observations from the people tagging & doing research doesn't matter; then why support any of it??


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## anytide

unless your going to eat it.
- it stays in the water period !
when our local tarpon numbers diminish to nothing of profit FOR the fat cigar smoking corporate fuks and guides they can move on to another species. if youve ever seen the fish that wash up on shore in the "big mouth" they represent only a fraction of the loss and youll understand the impact. they should shut down all tourneys involved !!


oh ! i just wounded it -itll be fine......


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## GullsGoneWild

whoa there, pardner. I wasnt putting you on blast and i meant no offense and none should be taken. No need to get defensive. Let me say this, I respect you. I respect your knowledge and all you do for this community. With that said, you unknowingly condoned the pulling of tarpon onto the deck and handing them in a "rough" manner by pulling them out for pics. You did this by saying you did it (as well as all these other famous people) back in the day and never lost a fish. You cried, "speculation!", but- are you not speculating that every tarpon you have released lived through the fight and handling for pics? Lets face it, pulling a 60lb-150lb fish over the rail and holding it up takes quite a lot of effort. How did they get these large fish in the boat anyhow? Were these fish heroically picked straight up out of the water or were they dragged over the rail? That can't be healthy. Long story short. You can not say that ALL of your fish lived. You can not know for certain. Only the fish and the fish gods know. I'm sure they swam away fine but that does not mean they lived to tell the tail. pun intended


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## GullsGoneWild

one tarpon study has shown that the mortality rate is close to 5%. Part of the assessment is a visual exam of the corpse, if they can find it. And they only track for 6 hours after the catch. Mortality rates were higher if you count for shark related deaths 7%-17%. Me thinks those poons had better odds of not being eaten by sharks if they were not previously caught.........So i think we can agree that just because a fish swims away from your release does not means that it lived. 
http://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/tarpon/catch-release/tampa-bay-study/

Ducknut- couldn't have said it better.


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## Backwater

MariettaMike said:


> You say leave the gov't out and let us do the teaching but then admit someone you knew wouldn't listen to you and it took FWC presence to change their behavior. Seems like you proved why "the man" is needed based on your own experience.. Jus say'n.


No matter what, you're always gonna get those a_ _ holes who will not listen, even if there is a law about it. How many people you know still text and drive?


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## sjrobin

Yes people/fishing people need regulation otherwise the resources will be destroyed. People that do not naturally respect the resource($$) will eventually respect the law. I believe shallow water fish hunters like us typically respect the fish we chase and should try to set good examples of catch and release when possible. No doubt even using the best practices some fish mortality will occur but fight the fish as quickly as you can using the skiff to move the fish if necessary in shallow water. For you deep water tarpon guys you better have the heavy duty tools to reduce fight time.


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## Backwater

GullsGoneWild said:


> whoa there, pardner. I wasnt putting you on blast and i meant no offense and none should be taken. No need to get defensive. Let me say this, I respect you. I respect your knowledge and all you do for this community. With that said, you unknowingly condoned the pulling of tarpon onto the deck and handing them in a "rough" manner by pulling them out for pics. You did this by saying you did it (as well as all these other famous people) back in the day and never lost a fish. You cried, "speculation!", but- are you not speculating that every tarpon you have released lived through the fight and handling for pics? Lets face it, pulling a 60lb-150lb fish over the rail and holding it up takes quite a lot of effort. How did they get these large fish in the boat anyhow? Were these fish heroically picked straight up out of the water or were they dragged over the rail? That can't be healthy. Long story short. You can not say that ALL of your fish lived. You can not know for certain. Only the fish and the fish gods know. I'm sure they swam away fine but that does not mean they lived to tell the tail. pun intended


Where I have see the most tarpon not survive is people who have no idea how to properly revive a tarpon. Also those guys who hook them and play around and stalemate them to exhausting and on top of that, they don't fully revive the fish and when it's revived, they let it go right back in the place where they are potential prey for sharks.

Look, I started keeping them in the water back in the 90's because there were concerns. Just like in the 80's people stop keeping them for mounts and back in the 70's, and early eights, they stopped hauling them in for the weigh-ins and then using them for fertilizer. It's all relative due to conservation and education.

Again, just because someone leaves a fish in the water (we are talking tarpon here) doesn't mean it's going to survive, I can't even speculate will survive better than someone who lifts a fish up for a quick pic and then properly releases... or someone who leaves it in the water and doesn't revive it properly. I have tons of pics of big snook where were hung them straight up for a pic and then properly released them. Nowadays, we hold them horizontally and support them properly, then also release them unharmed.

Tarpon will jump and land all kinds of ways and heights that's hard to believe and then crash down, even out of the blue on their own. When they daisy chain, the alpha female (big girls from 125+ on up) will stop and the smaller males (70-100lbs) will swim around her and take turns ramming her in the side and belly to drive her eggs out, with enough force that they can ram a hole in the side of your boat with their jaw if they want to. Then the males settle down to the bottom to fertilize them. This goes on hours on end for several days straight. I've stood there over them, watching themin gin clear water doing just that and even had that discussion with Aaron Adams about it, which I wasn't clear if he fully knew that fact back then. Btw, when you see the smaller males doing the same (from 40-60lbs), they are just practicing and not doing the real thing (like teens trying to figure the whole thing out).

If I ever see a dead tarpon, more than likely, I consider it's due to not properly reviving a fish, especially one that is fully exhausted. So how do people learn what to do and how to properly handle them, revive them fully and release them in a manner where they have a chance to survive.

For tarpon fishing, my practice is, as soon as you hook them, lean them into an area where it's safer to fight them. Don't let them lead you around all day. When you can get up to them, you lead them. Get with it, put the heat on them, use body leverage and get those fish in quick. NO stalemates! I hate to hear those guys that say it took 1.5,hrs, 2hrs or more. That's because they don't know what their doing, play around, sit down and rest... blah, blah... Get them in! Bring them into shallower waters to land them and to release them. You need to get the boat moving to get good water flow through their gills for a while. Just because they wink at you or you feel their jaw twitchin doesn't mean their ready. They will start bucking when their ready. Their survival rate with quantify by doing it that way.

Handle them with care. Education, conservation, word of mouth, and be an example, will be the cause of their survival rate. Get with a reputable guide who is conservation minded for your 1st few trips to really get a handle on how to properly handle and release the fish without harm. Ask questions and tell him you want to learn as part of the fishing trip. It's money worth spending.

Not meaning to change subjects, but there are still bigger fish to fry. There is a man made reason we are having serious redtide. (we are having it now in this cold water in the mouth of Tampa bay) True Story! Several years ago, due to this redtide when the tarpon come in from down south and are offshore, The redtide hit in early May, south and offshore of Boca Grande and the redtide was sitting out there and the fish ran into it. The report came in from a commercial fisherman that said there was thousands of full grown tarpon floating. He said it was like a 20 acre field full of floating poons. Now there is a fight that everyone is afraid to jump into.

Ted


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## ifsteve

Here's a real novel thought. IF you are really concerned totally with the survival of the fish then DON'T fish for it. There are right ways and wrong ways to fight fish, handle fish, and release fish. But the simple fact is that you can do all of them just right and some fish are going to suffer mortality.

This whole thing is a very slippery slope, albeit with the best of intentions. There are much more significant issues surrounding tarpon that somebody taking a quick photo. I think the fishing community would be better served to push more important factors than whether a guy should slide a fish up on the gunnel for a photo.

Just my two cents which isn't worth much anyway.....


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## bryson

Backwater said:


> Where I have see the most tarpon not survive is people who have no idea how to properly revive a tarpon. Also those guys who hook them and play around and stalemate them to exhausting and on top of that, they don't fully revive the fish and when it's revived, they let it go right back in the place where they are potential prey for sharks.
> Ted


Something that I noticed while watching some fishing shows is how they will play a fish to exhaustion, then let the fish go (during revival) significantly earlier than I would expect. I realize that minutes matter in a tourney, and those guys have FAR, FAR more experience than I do (and obviously care tremendously about the resource), but I like to revive a fish until it's strong enough to kick out of my hand on its own. It might not make a difference to the fish at all, but it sure makes me feel better about what I'm doing, especially if it was a longer fight on lighter tackle.


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## Backwater

Backwater said: ↑
I can tell you I've never lost a fish due to mishandling it, even if it was lifted up for a quick pic..


Speculation! How could you possibly know that.

c_ ronius 



I know I go way beyond the normal recreational fishermen and guides (when I was younger, when I guided back in the day or currently). I have always followed through with a long revival process and then watch and follow them to make sure the fish is functioning and doing good. There are some who don't. You can take that to every area of fishing for every specie known to man. I've seen it all, from marlin to bluegill fishing and everything in between. There are plenty of people out there who have no consideration at all for the fish, including that dink redfish you're holding up there. See how you are squeezing the stomach? did you release that one or eat it (was it big enough to keep? I doubt it). So see, we've all been guilty at some point or another. It's all about continually learning. I've been tarpon fishing for 40yrs and snook fishing for over 46yrs and I'm still learning about those fish.


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## Backwater

bryson said:


> Something that I noticed while watching some fishing shows is how they will play a fish to exhaustion, then let the fish go (during revival) significantly earlier than I would expect. I realize that minutes matter in a tourney, and those guys have FAR, FAR more experience than I do (and obviously care tremendously about the resource), but I like to revive a fish until it's strong enough to kick out of my hand on its own. It might not make a difference to the fish at all, but it sure makes me feel better about what I'm doing, especially if it was a longer fight on lighter tackle.


Yes you're right and good point!


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## Backwater

sjrobin said:


> Yes people/fishing people need regulation otherwise the resources will be destroyed. People that do not naturally respect the resource($$) will eventually respect the law. I believe shallow water fish hunters like us typically respect the fish we chase and should try to set good examples of catch and release when possible. No doubt even using the best practices some fish mortality will occur but fight the fish as quickly as you can using the skiff to move the fish if necessary in shallow water. For you deep water tarpon guys you better have the heavy duty tools to reduce fight time.


Absolutely!


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## Backwater

anytide said:


> unless your going to eat it.
> - it stays in the water period !
> when our local tarpon numbers diminish to nothing of profit FOR the fat cigar smoking corporate fuks and guides they can move on to another species. if youve ever seen the fish that wash up on shore in the "big mouth" they represent only a fraction of the loss and youll understand the impact. they should shut down all tourneys involved !!
> 
> 
> oh ! i just wounded it -itll be fine......


I definitely think that someone needs to shut PTTS down, along with the rest of the tourneys. I was asked last year to join a PTTS team (friend of mine's boat). But I'm glad it didn't work out. I did consult with them on fighting techniques and fish handling and releasing (so they can at least have some better chance for fish survival) . But other than that, nobody respects Joe Mercurio and I wish someone would pull the plug on them. It's a cesspool and cluster of boats for 2 solid months.


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## Blue Zone

Backwater said:


> I definitely think that someone needs to shut PTTS down, along with the rest of the tourneys. I was asked last year to join a PTTS team (friend of mine's boat). But I'm glad it didn't work out. I did consult with them on fighting techniques and fish handling and releasing (so they can at least have some better chance for fish survival) . But other than that, nobody respects Joe Mercurio and I wish someone would pull the plug on them. It's a cesspool and cluster of boats for 2 solid months.


On the other hand there are some tourneys which are very conservation-conscious. What ever happened to the PTTS sponsor boycott?

This thread as well as others on the subject of tarpon brings to mind a burning question for me on tippet/line weight. It seems to me that horsing in a tarpon on 40# in 20 minutes may in fact be more traumatic to the fish than a 40 minute leisurely battle on 16#. I know there is no way to quantify this, but it is food for thought.


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## Backwater

Blue Zone said:


> On the other hand there are some tourneys which are very conservation-conscious. What ever happened to the PTTS sponsor boycott?
> 
> This thread as well as others on the subject of tarpon brings to mind a burning question for me on tippet/line weight. It seems to me that horsing in a tarpon on 40# in 20 minutes may in fact be more traumatic to the fish than a 40 minute leisurely battle on 16#. I know there is no way to quantify this, but it is food for thought.


That's a good subject to bring up on the fly board. I have my thoughts on the subject, but we've already taken this thread way off base.


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## Blue Zone

Backwater said:


> That's a good subject to bring up on the fly board. I have my thoughts on the subject, but we've already taken this thread way off base.


I would have, but I didn't want to piss anybody off over there. Actually, in a veiled way I was referring to the 40# _minimum _of the PTTS (no fly rod) tourneys and the 16# max of say the Gold Cup.


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## DuckNut

I purposely left out some info of the studies I mentioned earlier...both of the studies showed that over 50% of the mortality occurred between 48-72 hours after release.

They swim away and you cheer, but the physiological damage is done and you have no idea that the fish is already a new member of the swimming dead club.


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## Backwater

~Thinks for a moment~ I just your question can go on general terms wither fly spinning or conventional

*Take Charge*

Have you ever dealt with a "alpha" type animal? Say a big alpha dog or a horse. You have to face them like you have no fear and take charge. Sort of a mentality of "who's your daddy!" lol Well tarpon can be full of it and if you relax and take it too easy, they will continue to take and fight back. When you rest, they rest, and then it's off to the races all over again. If you give, they take.... If you do nothing, they'll hold tight where they are and stalemate you.

Interestingly enough, you can take charge of them, lead them around, confuse them and disorient them. I've proven that theory many times and you can lead them around and to exactly where you want them to be before you hit them. We are talking big fish here. Once in Boca Grande pass, I pull a poon to the boat from hook set to toughing the leader (big fish) in 3.5 minutes and not over horsing it, no joke. But it takes experience to do that. The fish was not tired out at the boat, just disoriented and confused.

*Pros and cons of horsing them vs playing them out*

Back to your original question.... Is it better to put the big heat on them like a pro bass tourney guy who thinks he needs to rip the bass out of the water from the hookset to slinging the bass in the boat with 65lb test spiderwire?? Man, don't get me started on that subject!!!

Or, is it better to only apply light pressures and drag and play the fish completely out until it's done and ready to come in?

Here is my bottom line opinion on that question bluezone, from decades worth of fishing. I don't think that *over* horsing a fish is good for it. They do crazy things during that kind of struggles and can cause it to get hurt during that process, as well as seriously stressing the fish out. Sumtimes I've had a harder time reviving a fish when punished like, than a normal fight to submission.

I've said this before, you will be surprise how little force you really apply on your rod. You can think you can pour on the juice, but tie that line to a stationary scale, give it all you can and have a buddy read the force you put on that scale and it will tell you otherwise. So you can almost put on as much force with 16lb test, as you can with 40.

I also believe that *under* fighting a fish and eventually over exhaust their muscled far deeper than sudden burst of high impact energy struggling for the fish by horsing it in. The building of lactate in their muscles and cause far more problems well after the fish is released. NOTE: for the subject above, here is one of the biggest causes of dead tarpon if it does happen, aside from not fully and properly revived.

*There has to be balance*

On about every specie of fish I can think of, including tarpon, you can fight the fish with a steady amount of pressure and constantly working the fish in, using your entire rod to fight the fish, coupled with good fighting techniques to confuse the fish and that little extra force applied when needed, using your body.

Many fish are different when it comes to tricks and techniques that get's them off balance and confused. Some of the best arm wrestlers and wrestlers are not that big, they just knot how to be quick, think ahead. Same thing with tarpon, snook, reds, grouper, etc., etc.

There is a balance where you are being somewhat easy with the fish and still getting with it and working that fish in, where you are keeping steady pressure, keeping it moving towards you, rolling it, and keeping it confused. That way, you don't win the battle due to shear exhausting but winning the fight (mono-e-mono) due to bringing it under submission. Understand that to bring a big fish in like that in a reasonable time frame takes breaking it's "Will", kinda like taking charge of a big bad dog or a green horse.

*Landing that fish, taking control and getting that perfect release photo*

One last thing, getting that perfect pic once the whipped fish (not exhaused) takes breaking it's will at the boat. Believe me when I say that once you try to hand lip a fish at the boat for that cool photo, and it's not fully whipped into submission, the skin on your thumb will be nicely shredded and you wouldn't try that again. It takes 2 hands (wearing gloves people!) on the jaw and some good strength to get that fish under control. Grab it like you are tellin it "Who's your daddy!" lol Sometimes you need to hold it to the freeboard of the boat or up against the gunnel and let it feel the size and firmness of the boat before it calms down to take that pic. So get that quick pic and proceed to reviving it.

*Reviving it properly*

With 2 hands still on the fishes jaw, have someone steer the boat and kick it into forward (not throttling the motor), or use the trolling motor to start pulling the fish with it's mouth open. Then rotate the fish so it is upright (and not on it's side) so it get it's bearings and re-orientate itself on where it is. I like to head over to shallower water near the shoreline to release it, so it has half a chance to re-cooprate itself once it's released, before it heads back into deeper water. Sometimes you are deep and not much you can do about it. But if it's possible, try. Anyways, while holding on to it, with it uprights and mouth open, start to move it's head gently in a side to side motion, as if you are making it's whole body swim. It will start to come to life and once if snaps it's head a couple of times, still pulling it along, allow it to start kicking it's tail and you'll know she's ready. Just because you get a twitch doesn't mean it's fully revived. You have to wait till you feel her starting to surge forward. Then, she'll be ready to let her go. Once released, watch her and stick around for a bit to make sure she doesn't roll up on her side and come back up. That's being responsible to assure you treated her right and will see it through till she's safe and on her on. It's better being responsibly and seeing that fish or each fish you catch and land that it gets handled properly and hopefully with care, getting them fully revived so you have a successful release, then tossing them over and seeing how many fish you can nail that day. I'm a firm believer that "what comes around, goes around!" BE it, the old man upstairs, the fish gods or the people around you. Heck, the fish might have their own way of bring on bad karma onto you if they are not treated with some sort of respect. 

Ted Haas


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## Backwater

Blue Zone said:


> I would have, but I didn't want to piss anybody off over there. Actually, in a veiled way I was referring to the 40# _minimum _of the PTTS (no fly rod) tourneys and the 16# max of say the Gold Cup.


*Gold Cup Invitational Tarpon Fly Tournament & *
*Golden Fly Invitational Tarpon Tournament*
* - Islamorada*

It's 2 completely methods of tarpon fishing with different conditions. The Gold Cup is down in the Keys where it's typically in and around shallow flats using anything from technical poling skiffs to light flats boats. The fish are scattered out and swim in small threads of schools, a little at at time. The boats are scattered all over the middle keys and only a handful of selected boats entered into the tourney. You may not ever spot another tourney competitor the entire day while fishing. Captains are doing all the spotting of fish by sight from a poling platform, engine off and quitely poling and staking the skiff for the one and only perfect shot by fly rod. The fly is worked to the fish. Flies are hand tied on 1/0-3/0 fly hooks. One angler, one guide. 



Once hooked, they have plenty of room to play their fish out on the shallow flats. It is a tournament for the elite skilled of fishing, at the highest level and skill in the sport. An avg fish would be 60-80lbs and a good fish would run 100-120lbs. All fish caught on light flies and fly rod only. It's quitely reported on and has some video footage. It's now highlighted on the show Silver Kings.

*Professional Tarpon Tournement Series (PTTS) - Boca Grande*

On the other hand, the PTTS fishes Boca Grande Pass exclusively in a very deep hole where there is even a spot that is almost 60 to 90 ft deep in the hole (coast guard hole) and about 45 deep on either side (the "Pan" and the "Hill") all done mostly with 22-26ft bay boats and open fishermens. The fish are stacked up there like cordwood. I've been there where there was about 15k of fish stacked in about a football stadium size area. 



But typically, there are anywhere between 4-10k of fish in that pass during the competition, but at times, the fish will leave and only a hand full of fish will stay behind. So fishing that tourney is like being in that football stadium with about 100 boats arms to elbows apart. These big boats would be fishing straight down with heavy 4-6oz breakaway jigs (tho new rules say they can't break away) with 6/0 - 9/0 circle hooks. The gear is typically conventional rods with 40-50lb test mono with long 60-100lb test fluorocarbon leaders. No casting, just dropping the jig straight down and holding fast just off the bottom and the tide brings the boats with the straight dropper jig to the fish. The team consist of 4 people total. One captain and 3 who fish until the 1st person hooks up. Then the rod is passed to "the rod man" and the others assist. Boats are stacked up so tight, that you can tap the other boat with your rod. The captains are skilled operators and are doing all their sight fishing via high tech fish finders. So you are fighting big fish in very deep water in a close in area until you can break them out of the pack of boats and fish them out. Also, you have big sharks constantly on their tail, so you have to reel down on them and get em in quick! Ave fish are 100-140lbs and big fish weight out at between 160-180 with some fish pushing the 200lb mark. One was weighted in at 200lbs. Lots of sponsor ads, full boat wraps, spectators, bikinis and it has it's own TV show and treated like a sporting event with all the hoopla involved Actually fishing in it is like being in a controlled chaos situation. 

I've run those boats in the past on the non tourney days. Here's my buddies boat I ran last year a couple of days for him.



Believe me, there is nothing relaxing about that type of fishing.

Like I said, it's 2 different types for fishing.

Ted


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## Whiskey Angler

As a guy who has never caught a tarpon over 20lbs (only caught 2 under 20lbs) maybe I can present an unbiased/untainted assessment of what works to coerce people into proper fighting and handling of the fish. All the griping and shocking explanation of how mishandling the fish could lead to probable death will without a doubt stick with me until my first big tarpon event. That was not criticism of the previous posts; quite the opposite. The point I'm trying to make is that griping and shock tactics are totally necessary to coerce the wrong-doers into doing right. I'm not sure what platform is best to get the message heard to the angling masses or tournament directors, but if pure license events or professional fishing charters are doing obvious and avoidable damage...let 'em hear it. 
I would like to say thank you to the guys who provided all the info above, as I am now far more knowledgeable about handling tarpon that I was before I read this post.

PS. The pro tarpon tour seems like more of a bikini contest than a fishing competition.


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## Whiskey Angler

Whiskey Angler said:


> pure license


Typo- public


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## JappyFish

Might as well throw in my two cents, since everyone else has.

I've been fishing twice a year in Boca Grande for the past few years and it's typically during the World's Richest. However, the person I usually fish with down there hardly fishes the pass and locates the school away from the herd. He doesn't appreciate the pressure on the fish, and I respect that.

It's an absolute mess in the pass during World's Richest, and it's probably even worse during the PTTS. It reminds me of whale hunters circling a pack of whales, but without the spear gun mounted to the front. There are definitely people out there that would enjoy pulling a fish from the water and taking it home just to get a picture. My personal MO is only to take what I want to eat. The same is with hunting. I have no reason to kill a giraffe, a deer on the other hand tastes great in chili. But, we still have traditionalist out there. I myself have relatives that are not conscious when they fish from throwing out old line in the water, to keeping undersized fish. It takes constant reminding when they are around. On the other hand, some people just haven't had the education for some of these issues so it's all that they know.

As far as pulling a fish from the water, I do everything I can to keep the fish in the water as long as possible. I do pull fish from the water for a brief second for a picture, but I am never far from the net. I also always let the fish rest in between the fight and a picture. If the fish does not look well, then I won't get a picture and I will just fight with my cronies on how big the fish actually was (Pics. or it didn't happen rule). Me personally, if I was stuck on a hook for an hour, and then was pulled out of the water with no rest in between, I would not be doing so well after the release. Also, I'm sure that just the body weight of the tarpon has an impact on the jaw. If the fish were kept in the water, I'm sure buoyancy would come into play and the stress would be lessened to a degree. Also, I believe a few studies have been done regarding human handling of fish and the impact it has to the slime coating on the fish. Just another way to hurt the fish. Whether a tarpon, a trout, or even a bass, for the most part fish handling should be approached in the same way. I doubt that fish were created to be held by the jaw by mankind.

Bottom line for me is that as long as we fish, there will be a chance for every fish hooked to not make it. People have always fished, and we will continue to do so. But IMO it's my generation that needs to really look into this and stay proactive. We are the next generation of fishermen (and women) and I definitely want my kids (Heaven help me if I ever have any) to be able to enjoy the same experiences. This will not be possible if people do not recognize other aspects of conservation outside of just fish handling.

This was definitely a ramble with no flow, but I'm at work and today I'm procrastinating until further notice.

Jappy


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## js555

Wow when I look at this compilation of images regarding " bad handling " I can not stop thinking about not just tarpon but other species... I see guys holding redfish and other fish by the gills, the gut, bent over the rails etc... And my most hated one is when the hold the fish by the mouth and their bodies are doing almost 90 degrees folded in half... ( bass fisherman style ) That is just pathetic. If your target is the cooler, put the fish out of it's misery nothing is more disturbing than the sound of the cooler being slapped by a fish trying to live.
I think that we need to think about these fish and be 100% respectful of the pain and suffering we are putting them through... If release is your target, then release it unharmed, un-stressed and quickly !
Just think guys... how would you like it ?
Is it worth the bragging and the picture ? Keep it in the water and think of the karma you might be getting.
Be kind to the animals that bring us all together, feed us and we have grown to love, respect and protect.
Thanks


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## RunningOnEmpty

I was releasing a small tarpon last Sunday and noticed a small amount of blood coming from the gill area. Hopefully he's still swimming?


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## kenb

Backwater said:


> I have plenty of pics where we lifting big tarpon completely straight up and out of the water for pics. Same with snook We all did it. But I started to change about 16 yrs ago when an old but really good tarpon guide name Capt. James Wisner started talking to me about leaving them in the water. Slowly, I rolled into that method. Heck, you think that's bad, I remember walking throw the Sherwood forest of hanging tarpon on tournament days at Whidden's and Millers Marina in Boca Grande, back many years ago in the 70's when I was a teen. That happened well into the 80's We've all come a long ways. It's all about education and care for the fish.
> 
> Nevertheless, I can tell you I've never lost a fish due to mishandling it, even if it was lifted up for a quick pic.. I've always revived them properly before releasing them and doing in an area where it will not get shanked by a shark.
> 
> You have a pic there of CA Richardson. I've met him several times and I can tell you he's conservation minded. Putting that fish's head on the gunnell wouldn't kill him. But as things progress, we all know that water pics and releases are better for the fish in the long run. I'm sure that's what he does mostly these days too, just like the rest of us.
> 
> Tarpon are tough and hardier than you think but they still deserve to be treated properly.
> 
> Here's an example of one of the last fish we lip gaffed back about 15yrs ago. This was my buddy Kevin's biggest fish (around 180lbs). Released with no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Even ole Rob Fordyce was know for straight picking up poons for that perfect photo shot, pickin up my buddy's poon back in `98 and showin off his new Hellsbay! Rob was known for that pose. Hey, weight lifting wasn't the only thing he did to build those shoulders!
> 
> 
> 
> If you ask him too, he'll tell you he's never lost a fish due to that either.
> 
> There use to be a practice to pull a scale off as a trophy. I have quite a few. Never really put much thought into it until I started educating myself more about the fish and found out it can cause an infection where the missing scale was, even tho ugh they eventually grow new ones back.
> 
> Again, these are days long gone. Education changes the outlook with people and helps conservation for generations to come.
> 
> The fade was in the late 90's that you stop lip gaffing. Then we stopped hauling them out of the water, then only gunnel pics, then water pics. Even went to just leader breaking them off (but I likes removing the hook or fly).
> 
> Here's Stu Apte in the late 90's posing for that shot. We were all guilty of it. HE just got indocrinated into the IGFA and BTT Hall of Fame.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a vintage pic of George Hommell.
> 
> 
> 
> He was honored by the BTT at his funeral a couple of years ago.
> 
> http://midcurrent.com/2013/09/03/george-hommell-dies/
> 
> Even the most well recognized was guilty of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Ole George didn't know that wasn't so good for the fish.
> 
> Neither did we all know back then, including myself.
> 
> 
> 
> But as well learn, we change for the good!
> 
> 
> 
> Till we get it right!
> 
> Circa 2001
> 
> Again, education and conservation is what it's all about and how we evolve as a "good Sportsman!"
> 
> Ted Haas


Thanks Ted, for the easy to understand primer. Hope it helps keep those babes in the water...where they belong.


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