# Battery and wiring



## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

i would definitely run the motor off 4 ga. wire. what was the other question? oh yeah go with the dual purpose batt.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Here's a wiring gauge chart for general reference.
I have a copy taped to the lid inside of my electrical toolbox.
Makes it easy to find when I need it.


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

I bought some welding cable last year for a really good price, but I can't remember or find where I bought it. I tried several searches without any luck, but it was almost half the price of marine wire?

Frank_S


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

It was a site similar to this http://www.cableyard.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=30&osCsid=e8085f2bba7024dbbdd36fe2a853a3f3

Still that isn't too bad of a price. It is available in red as well.

Frank_S


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

how many amps does the starter draw? I know it has either a 10 or 12 amp alternator so the 8 ga I already bought would work just fine since according to that chart it is rated for 80amps, but I would like to be safe. An electrician I work with thought the 8 would be just fine as well and the 4 would be over kill, but didn't know about the actual starter. Keep in mind my battery is in the front of the boat so it has to be run atleast 11-12ft. what to do? :-/


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Starters spike the amperage pretty high.
Check with Yamaha dealer regarding the starter load.
If the battery required is 350 CCA for your engine
that ought to give you a pretty good idea of the amp draw.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

called yamaha dealer today, the tech said 4 should be fine, I hope it wll fit through my pipe chase


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## tguasjr (Mar 9, 2009)

I have 1 24 series deep cycle battery that serves as my starting/trolling motor batt. I have 8 gauge cable running from the rear of the boat to the trolling motor about 12 feet away. I also run the same gauge wire to my motor from the batt. I have yet to kill my batt after using the trolling motor for 4 hours straight and it starts my motor up instantly. IMHO 4 gauge is overkill.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

it might be overkill, but if the yamaha tech says use 4ga, Imma gonna use it. I picked some up this morning and it's not as thick as I thought so it should still fit nicely in my pipe chase. the only think is they did not have red, only black in stock so I'll have to mark one of the lines.

My plan now is run 4ga to the battery switch, then to connect the positive side of the motor to the battery switch, then splice the 4ga into the negative side and run that all the way back to the battery. sound good?
My other electronics will be 8ga (gotta use it somewhere) to the fuse panel, then 8a from the negative bus bar back to the battery. I hope this is the last time I need to revise this all.


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## tguasjr (Mar 9, 2009)

Yep!, sounds good. Instead of splicing the wiring to the motor, why don't you use a distribution stud to the negative? It's a stud mounted to a plastic piece that you bolt down to the boat. You run your negative wire to it and then hook up all your negative connections to the stud. With this one you can use it for both your positive and your ground.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1202&familyName=Blue+Sea+Systems+PowerPost+High+Amperage+Cable+Connectors
With this one you can hook your battery ground on one side and the motor on the other accessories in the middle.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=8978&familyName=Electrical+Bus+Bar+10+x+8-32+Stud+150A


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

if you look at the fuse panel picture I posted you can see it already came with a bus bar for the positive and negative sides, however it has a smaller stud on it like a number 10 so i feel more comfortable just running it all the way seperately.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> if you look at the fuse panel picture I posted you can see it already came with a bus bar for the positive and negative sides, however it has a smaller stud on it like a number 10 so i feel more comfortable just running it all the way seperately.



4ga from the battery to the studs "tico"suggested.

Connect motor directly to the studs - it should already have the connectors.

Run 8 or 10ga to your buss bars.  It wouldn't hurt to inline fuse the positive side.

How are you gong to protect your fuse/buss bar block?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I am running the 4ga to the battery cut off so if I got a stud I would only need one. as far as protecting the bus bar goes why would I need a fuse to protect a fuse panel? 

I am running out of time, where can I get one of these studs locally? (pepboys, discount auto parts?) I am starting the wiring tomorrow and don't have time to wait for internet orders.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Nothing but an insulated 1/4 inch bolt.
You could assemble one from a scrap chunk of starboard.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> I am running the 4ga to the battery cut off so if I got a stud I would only need one.


You need to also connect the negative side of the motor.  Most people don't understand that the negative side is actually more important to get right.



> as far as protecting the bus bar goes why would I need a fuse to protect a fuse panel?


Since you don't state what you are running off your fuse block and assuming it's reserved for switches, I'm allowing for an automatic bilge pump, the only thing that gets wired direct.



> I am running out of time, where can I get one of these studs locally? (pepboys, discount auto parts?) I am starting the wiring tomorrow and don't have time to wait for internet orders.


Like Brett stated, it's just and insulated bolt and you can make it.



> I am starting the wiring tomorrow and don't have time to wait for internet orders.


All the parts you need are a available from a local marine supply, you may just pay a little more.


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## tguasjr (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm just making a suggestion. I run my battery in the rear of my boat. I have my motor on a quick disconnect marinco plug that is wired directly to the battery. My switch panel, is directly wired to my battery with 10 gauge marine cable. All my accessories are run with 16 gauge marine tinned and insulated wires.You could also run your fuel tank up front only having to run a simple fuel hose from the front to the rear. Just trying to help!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> I am running the 4ga to the battery cut off so if I got a stud I would only need one.
> 
> You need to also connect the negative side of the motor. Most people don't understand that the negative side is actually more important to get right.


I understand this, thats why I was going to run the negative by itself back to the battery. and if I don't the negative side would not be bolted to the batery cut off, that would actually negate the cut off switch all together wouldn't it. the battery switch would do the same job as the post for the positive side which is why I don't see the need for it.



> as far as protecting the bus bar goes why would I need a fuse to protect a fuse panel?
> 
> Since you don't state what you are running off your fuse block and assuming it's reserved for switches, I'm allowing for an automatic bilge pump, the only thing that gets wired direct.


it's a 6 fuse switch block, 4 will go to the switches for the livewell and lights, 1 to the bilge pump, and 1 to the depth finder/gps eventually, but all will be fused through the block, if I need to add anything else later on I'll just add an inline fuse for that.



> Like Brett stated, it's just and insulated bolt and you can make it.


Ii need further clarification on this one. would just a 1/4" bolt covered in liquid tape work? if not how else do I insulate the bolt without directly bolting it to my boatside?



> All the parts you need are a available from a local marine supply, you may just pay a little more.


Problem is there are no local marine supply shops here, closest one is west marine which is almost an hour away.

Thanks for the help, I know this is a headache, especially since this is the 4th time I've revised my plans for the electrical system.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> I'm just making a suggestion. I run my battery in the rear of my boat. I have my motor on a quick disconnect marinco plug that is wired directly to the battery. My switch panel, is directly wired to my battery with 10 gauge marine cable. All my accessories are run with 16 gauge marine tinned and insulated wires.You could also run your fuel tank up front only having to run a simple fuel hose from the front to the rear. Just trying to help!


My battery will be in the front along with the gas tank(see my build blog for pics of the supports). so I can't do as your suggesting. I already have the wire for my accessories along with the fittings. I have pipe chases to keep the fuel and electrical completely isolated from each other. basically the negative setup for the motor is the last piece of the puzzle for me.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> > I am running the 4ga to the battery cut off so if I got a stud I would only need one.
> >
> > You need to also connect the negative side of the motor.  Most people don't understand that the negative side is actually more important to get right.
> 
> ...


Typically, the battery cut off is located near the battery/batteries.  Thought I read you were running a trolling motor :-/  If that's the case, you would need to another 4ga for the trolling. If not, you could do it that way.



> > as far as protecting the bus bar goes why would I need a fuse to protect a fuse panel?
> >
> > Since you don't state what you are running off your fuse block and assuming it's reserved for switches, I'm allowing for an automatic bilge pump, the only thing that gets wired direct.
> 
> ...


That will work, you just want to protect the fuse block from the elements and gear.  Uncovered, inside a hatch isn't really a good plan.



> > > Like Brett stated, it's just and insulated bolt and you can make it.
> >
> >
> > Ii need further clarification on this one. would just a 1/4" bolt covered in liquid tape work? if not how else do I insulate the bolt without directly bolting it to my boatside?
> ...


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

To make an insulated stud, get an old plastic cutting board
cut a 3 inch long by 1 inch wide section
and (2) 1 inch by 1 inch sections
Drill a quarter inch hole throgh the center of the 3 inch chunk for the stud
and a 3/16 hole through the ends of the 3 inch and center of the 1 inch chunks.
stainless nut an bolt through the center hole to make the terminal stud
screws through the end holes to fasten it down.
Make sense?

Quit laughing at my artwork, it ain't easy using the paint program while giggling... ;D


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> Typically, the battery cut off is located near the battery/batteries. Thought I read you were running a trolling motor If that's the case, you would need to another 4ga for the trolling. If not, you could do it that way.


My battery is up front, but the battery switch is in the back by the motor. the only reason I'm really using it is to stop someone from stealing my boat when I'm at dock since I'll have the battery switch key with me. I will have a trolling motor later on, but it will be about 2 feet away from the battery and will hook it directly to it so it won't be apart of the system I'm making now. 



> That will work, you just want to protect the fuse block from the elements and gear. Uncovered, inside a hatch isn't really a good plan.


it will be uncovered, but it's not inside a hatch, I'm mounting it high under the rear deck, I'll be able to access it by removing my maintenance cover but there is no gear back there and unless the boat gets a foot and a half of water in it   it won't get wet.



> Just use a SS 1/4-20 bolt through something that is non conductive. I prefer some sort of protection (boot) for both positive and negative terminals to prevent accidental shorts. The cut off switch you show and intend to use as a block does not show any protection against a short.


My understanding was that since it is only hooked to the positive side it shouldn't be able to short out, but it could be bridged. IE if it was off and I took a wire to both nuts in the back of it it would act if it was on. Am I wrong? I will try to make the isolated bolt and see how it goes. don't need a sunk boat.
Thanks for the diagram brett, I was thinking of buying some cutting board material anyway.
Thanks guys, I'll be off to home depot and walmart now.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> > Typically, the battery cut off is located near the battery/batteries.  Thought I read you were running a trolling motor   If that's the case, you would need to another 4ga for the trolling. If not, you could do it that way.
> 
> 
> My battery is up front, but the battery switch is in the back by the motor. the only reason I'm really using it is to stop someone from stealing my boat when I'm at dock since I'll have the battery switch key with me. I will have a trolling motor later on, but it will be about 2 feet away from the battery and will hook it directly to it so it won't be apart of the system I'm making now.


Then use a 50/60 amp breaker between the battery and the trolling motor later. I will act as a breaker and a shut off.  You can also get a cut off that shuts down the electrical system when it gets below ( I think it's) a nominal 10.5 volts.  Simple reset with turning on one small electrical item such as the lights and reserves the battery to start your motor.  Fits nicely strapped to a group 24 in a group 27 box. 



> > That will work, you just want to protect the fuse block from the elements and gear.  Uncovered, inside a hatch isn't really a good plan.
> 
> 
> it will be uncovered, but it's not inside a hatch, I'm mounting it high under the rear deck, I'll be able to access it by removing my maintenance cover but there is no gear back there and unless the boat gets a foot and a half of water in it   it won't get wet.


Now your talking. 



> > Just use a SS 1/4-20 bolt through something that is non conductive.  I prefer some sort of protection (boot) for both positive and negative terminals to prevent accidental shorts.  The cut off switch you show and intend to use as a block does not show any protection against a short.
> 
> 
> My understanding was that since it is only hooked to the positive side it shouldn't be able to short out, but it could be bridged. IE if it was off and I took a wire to both nuts in the back of it it would act if it was on. Am I wrong? I will try to make the isolated bolt and see how it goes. don't need a sunk boat.
> ...


You got the picture.  Just make sure no how, no way something could get shorted.  That's what happened to the bay boat I was referring to.

In the words of my idol, Captain Ron - "If anything is going to happen, it's going to happen out there" 


Brett,
Diagram is good enough that even I could build from it.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> I bought some welding cable last year for a really good price, but I can't remember or find where I bought it. I tried several searches without any luck, but it was almost half the price of marine wire?
> 
> Frank_S



I highly suggest that you don't use welding wire.
It will corrode.
You marine tinned wires.
It's not something you want to skimp on.
When I purchased my boat, they had used crap wire.
I started to have problems with starting and I took it to a mechanic and it turned out it was the wires were corroded.
I went to the local marine supplier picked up 10 feet of wire, and was good to go.

Wired it up in a few minutes and it never failed again.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

> > I bought some welding cable last year for a really good price, but I can't remember or find where I bought it. I tried several searches without any luck, but it was almost half the price of marine wire?
> >
> > Frank_S
> 
> ...


 how about using some direct burial romex? maybe some 12-2 or 12-3 if you need a few extra circuits and dont forget them wire nuts.... gotta have some wire nuts for the connections  ;D just kidding... i was thinking about how my mud minnow looked when i picked it up from the previous owner LOL...


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