# Just thinking



## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Why is the water in our estuaries now so polluted? Have we not built 10000 retention ponds and installed 40 billion miles of silt fencing during construction projects. Two main things to help water ways and it's worse than ever. Is it possible we just have no clue what the reason truly is? Could it be a natural cycle.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

In my opinion the major player in the game is the abundance of nutrients from sources such as runoff and municipal sewage discharges. Last November over 3 million gallons of raw sewage leaked into the Indian River. During the hurricane an undisclosed amount of partially treated water was discharged into Mosquito Lagoon. This is the stuff that changes the chemical composition of the water. The bad stuff. 

Also, uneducated/disrespectful boaters that mow over newly established grass flats is another major concern, at least in my waters. If it was up to me the entire lagoon would be a pole and troll with a few designated running lanes, but who has the resources and payroll to regulate that when we can’t regulate what we have now?


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

as goon alludes to, there really is no single cause. nutrient laden runoff, sewage discharges, inconsiderate boaters, increasing population, antiquated infrastructure, its all to blame. the chemical makeup of our waterways, the IRL in my case, has been altered to the point of no return in my opinion. I think we have reached a point where we have to accept that the lagoon will never be what it once was and understand that identifying and resolving point source causes for the problem will never happen, but rather it's time to strongly consider mass nutrient export via inlets and culverts.


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## NativeBone (Aug 16, 2017)

Agree, more inlets and time to open the locks @ Canaveral port.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Overpopulation of our planet by dumbasses that have to have a greener lawn than their neighbors.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Overpopulation of our planet by dumbasses that have to have a greener lawn than their neighbors.


certainly part of it


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Put simply... we don't have any problems that we didn't cause ourselves - and it's going to take a very serious commitment - and one hell of a lot of money to fix those problems. I'm talking years of effort as well....

The natural freshwater here in Florida is supposed to be almost nutrient free (pure hydro - nothing else...) but that's not what we have now and it's going to take some fixing. You can pretty much ignore all the claims of success in this fight - since each is merely a tiny step towards restoration (hopefully - in some cases the "fixes" aren't exactly helpful...). An honest politician will be very reluctant to speak openly about this since no one wants their taxes raised to pay for this (and folks who care about our fisheries and the clean waters needed to support them are not exactly a majority).

For anyone wanting to learn a bit about the actual scope of our problems - you can learn the history of it all by reading THE SWAMP by Michael Grunwald. The book is about the Everglades and man's efforts to "change" it over the past 500 years. Up in central Florida your problems directly effect everything to the south of you as well.

There is a bit of good news. It has been demonstrated that agriculture can clean up it's waste products and some farms actually do clean up their own waters so well that what leaves their land is within clean water standards... The Okeechobee (and that miserable, necessary dike....) will take a lot of fixing (and a ton of money), but if you read up on it you'll learn that at one time, before the Herbert Hoover dike, the Okeechobee killed hundreds of farm workers in a single night back in the late 1920's. Fixing all the problems that situation caused in the following years will take a major effort that everyone in the state will need to buy into (and I'm not talking about some additional reservoir either....

I figure that my grandkids (if they moved back here) will still be wrestling with these problems after I'm gone -and that ordinary politicians will blather on and try to get away with no action (or very little) if they can get away with it... We need to educate and push for the reforms and monies needed as our end of things so that ordinary folks around the state know exactly what the problems are and the costs to fix them.

Like I said, we don't have any problems we didn't cause ourselves - from north of Okeechobee all the down towards Key West....


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

The Swamp is a good history lesson on wet land development and greed. Eminent domain will be required to restore and ensure sheet water flow. Moving 100,000 people and stopping sugar subsidies is not that difficult, but you have to vote and encourage others to vote for representatives that make the ENP ecosystem and all coastal Florida a priority.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

This is an interesting read

https://www.scribd.com/document/275513792/Indian-River-Lagoon-Flushing-Model


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

I feel so lucky to be in the big bend/nature coast when I see the problems in other areas. Our water quality is still good and development is minimal.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Because we have designed our cities to get rid of water as fast as possible. There is no more natural filtration through the ground and wetlands. Combine this with all the fertilizers and pesticides and you get bad water.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

yobata said:


> This is an interesting read
> 
> https://www.scribd.com/document/275513792/Indian-River-Lagoon-Flushing-Model


I still think they need to create a couple inlets before we are left with an estuary that can't be fixed. Maybe that comes with some side effects but at least maybe they can save what's left. The IRL is pretty much at the point of disaster. Those models in that study seem to support the flushing idea. One things for sure, the IRL and ML are in a nose dive. Huge sea grass loss, incredibly discouraging.


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## Dawhoo (Oct 27, 2015)

Just remember God (or mother nature) created a perfectly synchronized system to protect its own... ANY human manipulation disrupts this.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Here in Indian River County, the problem has been growing worse and worse with each passing year. About 2 years ago I was out in the skiff, finding very few fish in my usual spots when I saw a research boat collecting water and bottom samples. Turns out it was a group of scientists from FSU and U. of Miami studying the sea grass die off. From Sebastian to Vero we lost tens of thousands of acres in seagrass over the past 24 months. I pulled alongside and had a pretty depressing talk. In their opinion, the Indian River Lagoon had finally gone past it's tipping point and was now on a rapid downward slide. They said leaching septics, AG runoff, storm water runoff, residential fertilizers and the continuing algae blooms have all overwhelmed the resource.

I asked about recovery and they said optimistically, we were looking at 15-20 years for any measures to have an impact *IF* and it's a *BIG IF* the funding was available for restoration and prevention. They shook their heads and talked about their research funds being cut back and little hope of the $ being appropriated in the amount they would need to make a difference.....F'd up for sure.

The water behind my house used to be full of bait fish, mullet, croakers, Sheepshead, snappers and pelicans diving all day feeding on the bait. The pelicans are now gone as are the dolphins that used to visit every couple days blowing up bait. The water looks dead, no mullet flipping and visibility is at best 4". The oysters on the seawall are covered in slime and everything looks mud brown...pretty depressing.

Unless there is a major shift like increasing water flow & quality, stopping/slowing development along the lagoon or massive infrastructure spending on septic conversion and run off mitigation, the future looks pretty bleak.

F-Me.........I need a drink.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Population of Lee county FL 618,000 as of 2017 anymore questions as to the problem of the Caloosahatche river and surrounding waterways? I have watched them be destroyed and it sickens me.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

SomaliPirate said:


> I feel so lucky to be in the big bend/nature coast when I see the problems in other areas. Our water quality is still good and development is minimal.


Luck has nothing to do with it, but current environmental law and protected ecosystems prevent most new coastal development impact in the USA. Well maybe not La.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> Luck has nothing to do with it, but current environmental law and protected ecosystems prevent most new coastal development impact in the USA. Well maybe not La.


Well I guess lucky for me that my wife got sent to the VA in Gainesville and not the one in West Palm!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Be very wary of considering new ocean inlets as a fix for those areas with poor or non-existent flushing ability... Mother nature in the form of hurricanes has the power to take a new inlet and change it so dramatically that the areas you're trying to restore might be changed forever.... One of the lessons I've learned, running the coastal areas of the Everglades (and similar places) over many years - is just how temporary places that look permanent can be. Lake Ingraham for instance was land-locked until both the East Cape and Middle Cape canals were cut to allow access into that area - all those years ago... When I first visited that area as a young member of the Tropical Anglers Club in the mid-seventies - Middle Cape entrance was less than 100 yards across - quite bit less... After Wilma it's been dramatically changed and opened up so much that I doubt that Lake Ingraham will keep it's present form (which is much changed from the way it was forty years ago already...).

Be very wary of any attempts to open up the lagoon and river areas since it's all too easy for things to get out of hand... A carefully controlled flushing might do a world of good - but it has to be controlled and not vulnerable to a single night's terrible storm...


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Retention ponds and silt fencing don't work all that well at all.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

70 days! I like that. It may be a work around fix, but its the best idea around, especially since not much else is being done about it...


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

As I have mentioned before the problem is only getting worse, it's evident to anyone that has spent time in the IRL over the past 10 years. Doing nothing will result in the continued decline till there is nothing left to save. If we can see the trend and direction it's headed, what is there to lose by trying?

All the talk of addressing runoff and septic systems is a great long term plan but this place will have been dead for 20 years before enough is done on that front to make an impact.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Also,
It takes 2,500 gallons of water, 12 lbs of grain, 35 lbs of topsoil, and the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline to produce one pound of feedlot beef. All of this = a shit ton of land that is dedicated to farming for feeding cattle and chickens.

I bet I get boo'd off the forum for suggesting this though.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

CurtisWright said:


> Also,
> It takes 2,500 gallons of water, 12 lbs of grain, 35 lbs of topsoil, and the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline to produce one pound of feedlot beef. All of this = a shit ton of land that is dedicated to farming for feeding cattle and chickens.
> 
> I bet I get boo'd off the forum for suggesting this though.


No, you have a valid point. The main issue is there are just too damn many people and 99.9% of them don't care about water quality versus their own lifestyle. I don't know what the long term solution is, other than a plague.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

CurtisWright said:


> Also,
> It takes 2,500 gallons of water, 12 lbs of grain, 35 lbs of topsoil, and the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline to produce one pound of feedlot beef. All of this = a shit ton of land that is dedicated to farming for feeding cattle and chickens.
> 
> I bet I get boo'd off the forum for suggesting this though.


this went over my head, so before booing or not, can you clarify what you meant?


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

CurtisWright said:


> Also,
> It takes 2,500 gallons of water, 12 lbs of grain, 35 lbs of topsoil, and the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline to produce one pound of feedlot beef. All of this = a shit ton of land that is dedicated to farming for feeding cattle and chickens.
> 
> I bet I get boo'd off the forum for suggesting this though.


Your a vegan?


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

321nole said:


> this went over my head, so before booing or not, can you clarify what you meant?


I meant that the vast majority (70%+) of agriculture is dedicated to feeding livestock. The biggest impact to the water system would come from people just eating less meat.
Less corn fields, less sugar plantations, less fertilizer, less fertilizer plants, less obesity, lower health care costs, ect ect...

I am not vegan, but I hardly ever eat meat. Mostly because I am cheap, but also for all the reasons above.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

CurtisWright said:


> I meant that the vast majority (70%+) of agriculture is dedicated to feeding livestock. The biggest impact to the water system would come from people just eating less meat.
> Less corn fields, less sugar plantations, less fertilizer, less fertilizer plants, less obesity, lower health care costs, ect ect...
> 
> I am not vegan, but I hardly ever eat meat. Mostly because I am cheap, but also for all the reasons above.


ah gotcha... not deserving of any boos from me. as a devout meat eater though, I'll just agree to disagree lol.

I would argue, however, that your point about obesity rates being so high is more directly related to sugar intake, which conveniently leads to less sugar plantations, and more available land to restore the sheet flow of water from Lake O through the glades to the bay


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Switch to sweet and low, but in the mean time, let's get a pumping station at the south end to flush the system


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## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

So where do we start?

This place is my home and like everyone else here, I’m absolutely disgusted at the state of the waters. 

I don’t see it costing billions to sink a few large culverts on the north end of Patrick Air Force base and the north end of the mosquito lagoon. They can be closed during hurricanes. 

The culverts could be set up so they only let water in the lagoon and not out.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Honestly, I'm not at all familiar w/ the area, but are there any thriving oyster beds present, or could they be reestablished? We have had good luck in our area recycling old oyster shells---one oyster is capable of filtering 50 gallons / day --and it has helped the water quality substantially in places most had given up on. Just tossin' out ideas...

FWIW, here is a video of how effective oysters are in filtering ( the bad news is it may make you not want to ever eat another oyster )


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Pole Position said:


> Honestly, I'm not at all familiar w/ the area, but are there any thriving oyster beds present, or could they be reestablished? We have had good luck in our area recycling old oyster shells---one oyster is capable of filtering 50 gallons / day --and it has helped the water quality substantially in places most had given up on. Just tossin' out ideas...
> 
> FWIW, here is a video of how effective oysters are in filtering ( the bad news is it may make you not want to ever eat another oyster )


That's cool.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

You're just beginning to come up with solutions (in concept at least)... Remember that our current situation took years and years to occur. We'll have to come up with many, many solutions for each part of the state from north of Orlando all the way south to the Keys - and we'll have to go at it with a very long perspective (politicians on the other hand are rarely thinking past their next election..) and keep working towards someday - getting back to where we were fifty years ago (if we're lucky). All of this with a growing population (hurricanes don't seem to be chasing anyone away....) and real money needs to do the things necessary....

One thing is certain - as I near my 70th birthday - I'm not likely to live long enough to see much more than the beginnings of the restoration. By the way the terrible problems of the Mosquito Lagoon and Indian River areas are repeated over on the west coast of Florida where they're now plagued by repeated red tides south of where the Caloosahatchee drains all that excess water from the Okeechobee.... at least those waters that haven't been sent to the east where they can tear up Stuart and nearby areas....


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

I would hope that someone has been paying attention to the salinity levels in the IRL over the years to have figured out the optimum level. Seagrass is very reliant on a specific range which can vary from area to area; anything beyond that range in either direction is harmful to growth. Given the lack of rain this winter, the salinity level in the IRL may be too high due to evaporation and introducing seawater may make matters worse. Rain levels in the 16-17 winter was abnormally high, most likely driving the salinity level down last year. That's a significant fluctuation 2 years in a row. 

Beyond that I don't know a damned thing about this, but it might be a good idea to check on this before flushing.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

all I know is: if its yellow, let it mellow, but if it's brown, flush it down! 

By all accounts it's been pretty brown for quite some time now.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

lemaymiami said:


> You're just beginning to come up with solutions (in concept at least)... Remember that our current situation took years and years to occur. We'll have to come up with many, many solutions for each part of the state from north of Orlando all the way south to the Keys - and we'll have to go at it with a very long perspective (politicians on the other hand are rarely thinking past their next election..) and keep working towards someday - getting back to where we were fifty years ago (if we're lucky). All of this with a growing population (hurricanes don't seem to be chasing anyone away....) and real money needs to do the things necessary....
> 
> One thing is certain - as I near my 70th birthday - I'm not likely to live long enough to see much more than the beginnings of the restoration. By the way the terrible problems of the Mosquito Lagoon and Indian River areas are repeated over on the west coast of Florida where they're now plagued by repeated red tides south of where the Caloosahatchee drains all that excess water from the Okeechobee.... at least those waters that haven't been sent to the east where they can tear up Stuart and nearby areas....




unfortunately it is not just the waters south of the Caloosahatchee. The waters from the Peace river flowing into Charlotte harbor and Pine Island Sound are equally affected and are experiencing one red tide after another.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Sorry to break the news, but short of the Apocalypse, water quality is never going to be what it was a century ago. There are too many people with too many diverse interests and too many politicians willing to play one against the other for anything meaningful to ever be done. Even if everyone moved out of Florida tomorrow, it would take decades for nature to fix itself. Enjoy what we have while you can. Like it or not, your existence is the root of the problem.


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

Vertigo said:


> Sorry to break the news, but short of the Apocalypse, water quality is never going to be what it was a century ago. There are too many people with too many diverse interests and too many politicians willing to play one against the other for anything meaningful to ever be done. Even if everyone moved out of Florida tomorrow, it would take decades for nature to fix itself. Enjoy what we have while you can. Like it or not, your existence is the root of the problem.


this 100percent
Im a 6th gen florida (jupiter) native.
if u guys only knew what this place was like before the black and white pictures ....


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

If our seagrass had healthy water again how long would it take to regrow back? I see old flats that are dead and now the boaters run right over them. It seems like the grass just doesn't stand a chance anymore.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Blue Zone said:


> I would hope that someone has been paying attention to the salinity levels in the IRL over the years to have figured out the optimum level. Seagrass is very reliant on a specific range ide


1. Too much shit is the issue.


That said, I find this very interesting in that turbitity and light reaching the grass is considered more important to Seagrass propitiation here in TX. I do not know about nutrient loads, but I’m in a place that tends to lack rainfall. We have seagrass thriving in hyper saline conditions.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Surffshr said:


> 1. Too much shit is the issue.
> 
> 
> That said, I find this very interesting in that turbitity and light reaching the grass is considered more important to Seagrass propitiation here in TX. I do not know about nutrient loads, but I’m in a place that tends to lack rainfall. We have seagrass thriving in hyper saline conditions.


having kept marine fish tanks (and you think boating/fishing is a money pit) I'm somewhat familiar with the salinity levels needed to maintain stability in a marine environment. every time someone brings up the salinity levels of the IRL with relation to the seagrass I can't help but wonder why the influx of more ocean water would have a negative impact on seagrass recovery. seagrass thrives throughout the keys, both ocean side and bay side, in biscayne bay, and in the tampa area where the flats are generally very open to incoming seawater. 

ok, so biscayne and florida bay may not be the greatest examples as they do rely on freshwater flowing through the everglades and we all know how that's going.


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## Griff0302 (Oct 22, 2016)

Wonder how many folks on this thread run 2 smokes?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Blue Zone said:


> I would hope that someone has been paying attention to the salinity levels in the IRL over the years to have figured out the optimum level. Seagrass is very reliant on a specific range which can vary from area to area; anything beyond that range in either direction is harmful to growth. Given the lack of rain this winter, the salinity level in the IRL may be too high due to evaporation and introducing seawater may make matters worse. Rain levels in the 16-17 winter was abnormally high, most likely driving the salinity level down last year. That's a significant fluctuation 2 years in a row.
> 
> Beyond that I don't know a damned thing about this, but it might be a good idea to check on this before flushing.



While seagrass might be reliant on certain salinity levels it stands no chance of surviving when the water is so opaque the light is blocked out. When you have prolonged periods of time where the visibility is near zero you end up with a mass seagrass die off even in areas less than a foot deep. I would rather take my chances with clear water even if the salinity isn't ideal.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Griff0302 said:


> Wonder how many folks on this thread run 2 smokes?


what's your point?

side note, I run a 4 stroke


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Four stroke here.

I think our current course of action falls under the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. It's time for a change.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Griff0302 said:


> Wonder how many folks on this thread run 2 smokes?


Probably many. But two strokes have been around how long? Then the water suddenly turns to shjt. About the time 4 strokes came out.(kidding) I seriously doubt outboard exhaust is the cause. Seems like this major change on the east coast happened years back soon after those 3 canes in a row came through.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

I think the hurricanes you're referring to may just be coincidental as far as timing. the population has been booming since then and Florida seems to have a shoot first, ask questions later policy when it comes to planning infrastructure needs


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## Griff0302 (Oct 22, 2016)

I dip Copenhagen and drink 4 beers a day. Should I drink more water to help flush the toxins? Or should I stop dipping and only drink 2 beers a day? I’d say both. I grew up on the IR and ML. My folks house is a couple miles from Shiloh. It’s pretty depressing to wade murky barren flats that used be carpeted with grass. I’m for focusing on the biggest contributors that are politically feasible. The population is what it is and the population shits. Ideally the Lagoon is opened to flush and gets less pollutants of all types coming in.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Anyone who thinks they're saving the environment by running a 4-stroke is delusional. If you really want to save Florida environment, move to Michigan. Of course, then you'll be contributing to the destruction of Michigan environment. 

Environmental change is inevitable. Rather than try to reverse it, better to predict it and attempt to influence the changes for the best outcome. The Florida population boom shows no end in sight. 20 years from now we're not going to be worrying about clean water for fishing. Having enough clean water for human consumption will more likely be the problem. Maybe we need to build a wall on the Florida state line and keep all the Yankees out. OTOH, maybe water shortage is a problem that will solve itself...no water, no more people.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> Anyone who thinks they're saving the environment by running a 4-stroke is delusional. If you really want to save Florida environment, move to Michigan. Of course, then you'll be contributing to the destruction of Michigan environment.
> 
> Environmental change is inevitable. Rather than try to reverse it, better to predict it and attempt to influence the changes for the best outcome. The Florida population boom shows no end in sight. 20 years from now we're not going to be worrying about clean water for fishing. Having enough clean water for human consumption will more likely be the problem. Maybe we need to build a wall on the Florida state line and keep all the Yankees out. OTOH, maybe water shortage is a problem that will solve itself...no water, no more people.


Now that's a wall I'd support!


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> Anyone who thinks they're saving the environment by running a 4-stroke is delusional. If you really want to save Florida environment, move to Michigan. Of course, then you'll be contributing to the destruction of Michigan environment.
> 
> Environmental change is inevitable. Rather than try to reverse it, better to predict it and attempt to influence the changes for the best outcome. The Florida population boom shows no end in sight. 20 years from now we're not going to be worrying about clean water for fishing. Having enough clean water for human consumption will more likely be the problem. Maybe we need to build a wall on the Florida state line and keep all the Yankees out. OTOH, maybe water shortage is a problem that will solve itself...no water, no more people.


I dont think anyone was suggesting running a 4 stroke was saving the environment, still burning fossil fuels. 

your second paragraph is spot on, and its exactly why we are in this mess. we are reactive, not proactive as a society.


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## Griff0302 (Oct 22, 2016)

that’s quite a leap. Didn’t say anything about saving it. My analogy was to health. Pretty sure I won’t live forever but PTing and eating better etc will prolong my life and add quality to my years. Similarly taking reasonable steps to prolong what we have is something I’m interested in. I’ll retire in 2.5 yrs after 30 yrs of service much of which was in “shitholes”. I want the playground to last through my golden years and hopefully long enough for my kids to enjoy. It’s not my style to just throw my hands up and watch.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

When I retire I'm moving.
We've shit our nest here boys.


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## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

Would anyone like to get together in central Florida every month or so and try to come up with some sort of solution? Develop a game plan and work toward it. 

We won’t come up with a solution by tomorrow but if we start now, maybe my children will still be able to fish here. 

Bitching on the inter-webs and saying that the IRL is too far gone and not worth fixing, helps on one.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

MooreMiller said:


> Would anyone like to get together in central Florida every month or so and try to come up with some sort of solution? Develop a game plan and work toward it.
> 
> We won’t come up with a solution by tomorrow but if we start now, maybe my children will still be able to fish here.
> 
> Bitching on the inter-webs and saying that the IRL is too far gone and not worth fixing, helps on one.


you're exactly right and there are several groups designed to do just that. there are a number of proposed solutions, but unfortunately there is a divide in the scientific community as to which solution is the best option. do we add inlets, pumping stations, and culverts? some suggest that would destroy the biodiversity that the IRL harbors. these people suggest replacing septic systems and halting pollution and runoff to restore the IRL back to its natural state.

I would argue that the biodiversity that once existed in the IRL is long gone and its not practical to assume we could possibly restore it in our lifetimes or even multiple lifetimes for reasons previously mentioned. other coastal areas have survived and adapted to greater amounts of ocean water just fine for thousands of years. the IRL will never be what is once was, but its possible that it could be pretty special again one day.

enter politics. these proposed solutions cost money, a lot of it. the vast majority of the voting population of Florida is not particularly concerned with the health of our waterways. they are not interested in tax hikes to cover the cost of such projects. yes, we passed the 1/2 cent sales tax by a wide margin, but until the politicians are willing to stand up for what needs to be done, no real change will be made. they will continue to approve minimal band aid type projects to appease the majority. 

bottom line, the scientific community needs to reach a compromise and we need to convince our representatives at the state and federal level that a real change is something they should be willing to fight for.


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## f86sabjf (Nov 21, 2017)

I saw something on Facebook that the Owner of Dixie Crossroads had teamed up with UCF and had planted a new variety of sea grass . Supposedly more resistant to the mess we create. I believe they have either a half or full acre growing in the Titusville area.


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## f86sabjf (Nov 21, 2017)

http://www.wesh.com/article/first-e...-aims-to-restore-indian-river-lagoon/13144866


Here’s the article


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## brianBFD (Oct 25, 2017)

Back to comments by CurtisWright, looks like they intend to tax us out of eating meat.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/455752/get-ready-meat-tax-push


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

brianBFD said:


> Back to comments by CurtisWright, looks like they intend to tax us out of eating meat.
> http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/455752/get-ready-meat-tax-push


I feel like that needed a sarcasm font...not because those people aren't dead serious in their intentions but because its asinine lol


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## brianBFD (Oct 25, 2017)

We screwed up our waters by creating the Tennessee-Tombigbee waterway. It still hasn't lived up to it's alleged fiscal windfall for the state. It did however kill off the sturgeon and create a giant silt runoff that dumps billions of gallons of fresh water laden with nitrates into Mobile Bay. We lost thousands of acres of eel grass and fish habitat. Mobile Bay used to be clear but is now a dirty brown except during drought and strong incoming tides. The latest effort to try to clean up the bay and restore some normalcy is with oysters.
http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf/2017/12/saving_mobile_bay.html


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Note to all you hypocritical morons: No meetings you can have and nothing you can do will turn back the clock or stop changes to the environment. Run your microskiffs in 6" tearing up the grass to catch the last few remaining reds and snook and then barbeque them up with a sea cow steak 'cause when they're gone, they're gone. You might as well get some while you can. I am.



The Devil made me post this.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> Note to all you hypocritical morons: No meetings you can have and nothing you can do will turn back the clock or stop changes to the environment. Run your microskiffs in 6" tearing up the grass to catch the last few remaining reds and snook and then barbeque them up with a sea cow steak 'cause when they're gone, they're gone. You might as well get some while you can. I am.
> 
> 
> 
> The Devil made me post this.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Surffshr said:


> 1. Too much shit is the issue.
> 
> 
> That said, I find this very interesting in that turbitity and light reaching the grass is considered more important to Seagrass propitiation here in TX. I do not know about nutrient loads, but I’m in a place that tends to lack rainfall. We have seagrass thriving in hyper saline conditions.


For some reason you edited out an important part of my post that maybe you missed: _which may vary from area to area. _TX is a different area.




321nole said:


> having kept marine fish tanks (and you think boating/fishing is a money pit) I'm somewhat familiar with the salinity levels needed to maintain stability in a marine environment. every time someone brings up the salinity levels of the IRL with relation to the seagrass I can't help but wonder why the influx of more ocean water would have a negative impact on seagrass recovery. seagrass thrives throughout the keys, both ocean side and bay side, in biscayne bay, and in the tampa area where the flats are generally very open to incoming seawater.
> 
> ok, so biscayne and florida bay may not be the greatest examples as they do rely on freshwater flowing through the everglades and we all know how that's going.


Nole, in the summer of '16 (you should know since you fish the area) there was a significant grass die-off in Florida Bay. That was mainly due to high saline levels during a rainy season that wasn't rainy and no fresh water flowing South from the Lake to moderate the level in the Bay. Salt even crept into dry ground in Southern portions of the Glades.

Just to be clear, I am not opposed to a flush in the IRL. All I am suggesting to monitor salinity levels and not cause harm for the sake of clear water. On the flip side, it's quite possible the salinity levels could in fact be too high in the IRL right now due to lack of rain and evaporation.

BTW, on the Lake O, Glades, Florida Bay issue, some of you may have missed Sandy Moret's latest call to action. Please do the link below (it takes about 30 sec to fill in):
*Thank you for urging Gov. Scott to tell the South Florida Water Management District to do its job !
How about telling your friends and followers, so they can do the same? 

Simply forward them this link*: http://p2a.co/nYoUFv6



Pole Position said:


> Honestly, I'm not at all familiar w/ the area, but are there any thriving oyster beds present, or could they be reestablished? We have had good luck in our area recycling old oyster shells---one oyster is capable of filtering 50 gallons / day --and it has helped the water quality substantially in places most had given up on. Just tossin' out ideas...
> 
> FWIW, here is a video of how effective oysters are in filtering ( the bad news is it may make you not want to ever eat another oyster )


I think you're on to something here.

I grew up in Vero back in '60's and basically lived on the water. The IR was overrun with oyster bars; there were vast areas that you simply didn't go. In the Winter you could see down three feet and that's 15mi to either the Sebastian or Ft. Pierce inlets. I haven't been back on the water there in ages but judging from all the other environmental messes we have in every corner of the state, I'd bet they are probably gone or pretty well decimated.

While reminiscing about the good old days on the water in Vero, the thought came to mind that manatees were a very rare sight at that time. We called them by their proper name, sea cows. Pardon me for saying this, but now the damn things are everywhere and in my view over-protected. Now what's the difference between a sea cow and a land cow? They both eat grass and they both poop what they eat and you can eat a land cow. The inedible manatee poops directly into our estuaries, not on land. Food for thought, so to speak.

Just thinking about all this is depressing. Then there's the Apalachicola issue...


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Blue Zone said:


> For some reason you edited out an important part of my post that maybe you missed: _which may vary from area to area. _TX is a different area.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I could go for a McManatee right about now!


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Yeah, I realize Florida Bay wasn’t an ideal example and I did admit to that. Point still remains, seagrasses can thrive in a relative wide range of salinity levels. The key is stability. I too grew up on the IRL, albeit a few years later (90s) and a few miles north in Melbourne. Even I can recall much cleaner water and oyster beds, though never as widespread as you mention. 

As for the sea veal, I mean manatees, they were always around up here as far as I can recall. Matter of fact, there are pictures of me as a child with them all piled up in Crane Creek....


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Blue Zone said:


> Then there's the Apalachicola issue...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b18ce41436a_story.html?utm_term=.ed796ffb9a60

It's back to the Supreme Court, hopefully this time something more equitable will eventually prevail. One of the issues is, you have two coastal counties with very small populations, Gulf 15k and Franklin 12k people, essentially fighting the entire Atlanta area 5 mil+. The irony being ALL the people from GA that come here don't even realize there's an issue. I often think about how funny it would be if the situation was reversed and the river brought fresh water North through dams. I'd give a gold nickel to be the one with my hand on that valve.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

LowHydrogen said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b18ce41436a_story.html?utm_term=.ed796ffb9a60
> 
> It's back to the Supreme Court, hopefully this time something more equitable will eventually prevail. One of the issues is, you have two coastal counties with very small populations, Gulf 15k and Franklin 12k people, essentially fighting the entire Atlanta area 5 mil+. The irony being ALL the people from GA that come here don't even realize there's an issue. I often think about how funny it would be if the situation was reversed and the river brought fresh water North through dams. I'd give a gold nickel to be the one with my hand on that valve.


As a Savannah native, I feel pretty confident speaking for the rest of Georgia when I say Atlanta dying of dehydration isn't necessarily a bad thing.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Anyone know if CCA is doing anything to promote inlets or pump stations for ML / IRL? Last time I checked they were busy relocating resident lagoon fish for their star tournament.

Worst case inlets don't work and everything is still dying.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

321nole said:


> View attachment 21952


Just trying to point out how hypocritical it is to live in a nicely air-conditioned house that is situated on what used to be the edge of the Everglades, use thousands of gallons of water every month, hook up your plastic gas powerd skiff (made mostly of petroleum products) to your 400 hp gas guzzling pickup and tow 150 miles round trip over a nicely paved 4-lane highway to run over grass flats burning still more gas and oil and then to complain that the environment is being destroyed. 

What most of us bitching really mean to say is that we wish all the other folks consuming resources and changing the environment would quit so that we could have it all to ourselves to exploit.

I realize this is a pretty harsh assessment, but how many of us are ready to live in chickees, pole dugouts and fish with cane poles and cotton line using bait we dug out of the swamp? No petroleum based insect repellent. The reason crowds live in Florida is because we can change the environment to suit us, and it suits most Florida residents to have flood control, mosquito control, sugar for our coffee and lots of water for our golf courses and live stock. As I noted previously nothing short of the Apocalypse is going to change things.


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## EasternGlow (Nov 6, 2015)

Vertigo said:


> Just trying to point out how hypocritical it is to live in a nicely air-conditioned house that is situated on what used to be the edge of the Everglades, use thousands of gallons of water every month, hook up your plastic gas powerd skiff (made mostly of petroleum products) to your 400 hp gas guzzling pickup and tow 150 miles round trip over a nicely paved 4-lane highway to run over grass flats burning still more gas and oil and then to complain that the environment is being destroyed.
> 
> What most of us bitching really mean to say is that we wish all the other folks consuming resources and changing the environment would quit so that we could have it all to ourselves to exploit.
> 
> I realize this is a pretty harsh assessment, but how many of us are ready to live in chickees, pole dugouts and fish with cane poles and cotton line using bait we dug out of the swamp? No petroleum based insect repellent. The reason crowds live in Florida is because we can change the environment to suit us, and it suits most Florida residents to have flood control, mosquito control, sugar for our coffee and lots of water for our golf courses and live stock. As I noted previously nothing short of the Apocalypse is going to change things.


Sounds harsh to the civilized man, but every bit true.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

It's totally true, I'm just hoping to survive the apocalypse. Post pandemic fishing should be AWESOME.

Side note: This is the most depressing thread here. We should revive "Go Mr. President" instead.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Noted that there was a mention of the benefits of oysters in the water environment - and it's absolutely spot on... There's only one item that needs to be mentioned - and that is that oysters have very specific salinity requirements (the right mix of fresh and salt...). That's why the areas north of the Harney River system along the coast of the 'Glades - all the way over to Naples still have oyster bars everywhere... And the areas from south of there all the way to Flamingo have almost none... Flood control to benefit south Florida (we had to have it from Palm Beach south or we'd never have been able to build up the area after WW II...) changed the balance of fresh and salt (lots less freshwater now in brackish areas compared to what it was 100 years ago...) and that was the end of all the oyster bars from Flamingo all the way west out to the gulf coast...

Yep, oysters (like sponges) are tremendous water filters - and they have other benefits as well - if we can keep them alive - they're among the casualties when the overflow (huge amounts of fresh water..) from the big lake hits any marine environment....


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## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> Just trying to point out how hypocritical it is to live in a nicely air-conditioned house that is situated on what used to be the edge of the Everglades, use thousands of gallons of water every month, hook up your plastic gas powerd skiff (made mostly of petroleum products) to your 400 hp gas guzzling pickup and tow 150 miles round trip over a nicely paved 4-lane highway to run over grass flats burning still more gas and oil and then to complain that the environment is being destroyed.
> 
> What most of us bitching really mean to say is that we wish all the other folks consuming resources and changing the environment would quit so that we could have it all to ourselves to exploit.
> 
> I realize this is a pretty harsh assessment, but how many of us are ready to live in chickees, pole dugouts and fish with cane poles and cotton line using bait we dug out of the swamp? No petroleum based insect repellent. The reason crowds live in Florida is because we can change the environment to suit us, and it suits most Florida residents to have flood control, mosquito control, sugar for our coffee and lots of water for our golf courses and live stock. As I noted previously nothing short of the Apocalypse is going to change things.


I should have elaborated on my stance. I agree, the only solution to “fix” the lagoon is a nuclear war. 

I feel the lagoon would benefit, not be fixed, by introducing cleaner ocean water into the retention pond we now have. 

I don’t think anyone here expects the lagoon to return to where it was 100 years ago.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> Just trying to point out how hypocritical it is to live in a nicely air-conditioned house that is situated on what used to be the edge of the Everglades, use thousands of gallons of water every month, hook up your plastic gas powerd skiff (made mostly of petroleum products) to your 400 hp gas guzzling pickup and tow 150 miles round trip over a nicely paved 4-lane highway to run over grass flats burning still more gas and oil and then to complain that the environment is being destroyed.
> 
> What most of us bitching really mean to say is that we wish all the other folks consuming resources and changing the environment would quit so that we could have it all to ourselves to exploit.
> 
> I realize this is a pretty harsh assessment, but how many of us are ready to live in chickees, pole dugouts and fish with cane poles and cotton line using bait we dug out of the swamp? No petroleum based insect repellent. The reason crowds live in Florida is because we can change the environment to suit us, and it suits most Florida residents to have flood control, mosquito control, sugar for our coffee and lots of water for our golf courses and live stock. As I noted previously nothing short of the Apocalypse is going to change things.


Now that I know you were being serious, yes it is harsh, but sometimes reality is, and you’re absolutely right.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

lemaymiami said:


> Noted that there was a mention of the benefits of oysters in the water environment - and it's absolutely spot on... There's only one item that needs to be mentioned - and that is that oysters have very specific salinity requirements (the right mix of fresh and salt...). That's why the areas north of the Harney River system along the coast of the 'Glades - all the way over to Naples still have oyster bars everywhere... And the areas from south of there all the way to Flamingo have almost none... Flood control to benefit south Florida (we had to have it from Palm Beach south or we'd never have been able to build up the area after WW II...) changed the balance of fresh and salt (lots less freshwater now in brackish areas compared to what it was 100 years ago...) and that was the end of all the oyster bars from Flamingo all the way west out to the gulf coast...
> 
> Yep, oysters (like sponges) are tremendous water filters - and they have other benefits as well - if we can keep them alive - they're among the casualties when the overflow (huge amounts of fresh water..) from the big lake hits any marine environment....


Restoration of oyster beds is a great idea but I think the time for any realistic water improvement due to oysters is long gone. My youngest son was an organizer of oyster mat making events here in Vero in 2013 and over 4 years, was responsible for producing over 5,500 mats during his high school years. Each mat held 36 oyster shells. The mats were then deployed in the Indian River Lagoon with the hope that oyster spat would attach to the shells and help restore the reefs. The mats have been there for a few years now with very few new oysters growing. Today, most of the mats are covered with silt and algae. Due to his efforts, he was awarded the Conservationist of The Year Award by the CCA and I give him tons of credit for trying to make a difference...proud Dad for sure.

It's sad to visit the beds with him that he helped to "restore" and see no significant results for all his hard work.

My neighbors have now begun a new effort by hanging oyster bags off of all our docks. So far after 12 months, the results are pretty depressing. With water clarity so compromised, no amount of oyster shells will attract enough new oysters to filter that much water. I give these folks tons of credit for doing something but I know from experience, it's like putting a band aid on a gushing head shot wound.

Should we all give up....no! Hopefully as more and more non-fishing people are exposed to the tragedy unfolding in the Lagoon, maybe change will happen in the voting booth with some serious $ dedicated to future restoration projects.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Don't give up people.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Stop spraying neighborhoods for mosquitos and the northbound lanes of I75 and I95 would be packed with snowbirds fleeing the homeland.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

be the solution

https://captainsforcleanwater.org


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## dgt2012 (Apr 14, 2012)

yobata said:


> I could go for a McManatee right about now!
> View attachment 21953


For some reason everyone forgets the elephant in the room. One manatee can eat over 150 lbs of seagrass a day. It took them years to realize what those clammers did to the bottom grasses raking up our resources around here. We who fish up the tributaries and creeks in Brevard cant go up there when the manatee are gathering for the winter in there. No grass left, they blow up the place and drive the gamefish out. Spawning areas get wiped out by their blubbery movement and the baitfish disappear. You can walk across Crane creek or Eau Gallie river right now on their backs. 
These sea cows are non native species that destroy our ecosystem. Yet no effort to eradicate them? Common, they are not cute, or interesting, ever had one blow up under your skiff? Your going in the pool. 
But they are editable. I worked with a gentleman from Grant back in 1985 who was in his 70's then and he told me how back in the day they would harvest one a year by throwing a snatch hook tied to the bumper of their truck and snatch em right out of the Sebastian river. Every family in town had meat for the winter.
This is not be the complete answer but we must include thinking out of the box of those who left their homes to move here only to claim political power and destroy our resources. We will be prepared for the political battle for this scope of work and every other part of the solution, butch up and harvest them out to a manageable herd in this county. 
My 2 sense


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

I’ve lived in Miami, Orlando and now in Jacksonville. For the reasons above, I don’t even bother Fishing my old waters anymore. Right now the fishery in NE FL is great but I know that won’t last forever. Wonder how long it takes before this shit spreads north?


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Next time you vote vote _environmental_ issues because nothing else really makes a lot of difference in our lives.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Manatees actually are native. I too thought they were invasive but quick google search said otherwise.

I suspect the difference back then they were a food source for the natives and early settlers and that kept the population under control.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

dgt2012 said:


> For some reason everyone forgets the elephant in the room. One manatee can eat over 150 lbs of seagrass a day. It took them years to realize what those clammers did to the bottom grasses raking up our resources around here. We who fish up the tributaries and creeks in Brevard cant go up there when the manatee are gathering for the winter in there. No grass left, they blow up the place and drive the gamefish out. Spawning areas get wiped out by their blubbery movement and the baitfish disappear. You can walk across Crane creek or Eau Gallie river right now on their backs.
> These sea cows are non native species that destroy our ecosystem. Yet no effort to eradicate them? Common, they are not cute, or interesting, ever had one blow up under your skiff? Your going in the pool.
> But they are editable. I worked with a gentleman from Grant back in 1985 who was in his 70's then and he told me how back in the day they would harvest one a year by throwing a snatch hook tied to the bumper of their truck and snatch em right out of the Sebastian river. Every family in town had meat for the winter.
> This is not be the complete answer but we must include thinking out of the box of those who left their homes to move here only to claim political power and destroy our resources. We will be prepared for the political battle for this scope of work and every other part of the solution, butch up and harvest them out to a manageable herd in this county.
> My 2 sense


Manatee bones have been discovered in 1000 year old Caloosa Indian mounds, just saying.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Net 30 said:


> Restoration of oyster beds is a great idea but I think the time for any realistic water improvement due to oysters is long gone. My youngest son was an organizer of oyster mat making events here in Vero in 2013 and over 4 years, was responsible for producing over 5,500 mats during his high school years. Each mat held 36 oyster shells. The mats were then deployed in the Indian River Lagoon with the hope that oyster spat would attach to the shells and help restore the reefs. The mats have been there for a few years now with very few new oysters growing. Today, most of the mats are covered with silt and algae. Due to his efforts, he was awarded the Conservationist of The Year Award by the CCA and I give him tons of credit for trying to make a difference...proud Dad for sure.
> 
> It's sad to visit the beds with him that he helped to "restore" and see no significant results for all his hard work.
> 
> ...


Kudos to your son on the oyster project. I don't know if you saw my earlier post about Vero and oyster beds in the 60's. Your post confirms my worst fears; apparently, the oysters are pretty much gone. Where was your son deploying the mats?

For some reason, most the oyster beds started just South of where the old Barber bridge was and stretched most of the way to Ft. Pierce bordering both sides of the ICW. Great care and attention was required to stay in the channel when heading in that direction. They were not so prevalent North of the bridge presumably because the water was generally deeper.


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

MariettaMike said:


> be the solution
> 
> https://captainsforcleanwater.org


*ABOUT CAPTAINS FOR CLEAN WATER*
Captains for Clean Water is a grassroots 501(c)3 nonprofit organization that advocates for the elimination of harmful, large-scale Lake Okeechobee discharges into the Caloosahatchee and St. Lucie River Estuaries by restoring the natural flow of Lake Okeechobee water south into the Everglades and Florida Bay. Restoring the natural southern flow of Lake Okeechobee water is essential to the survival of our estuaries, the health of the Everglades, and the long-term viability of South Florida’s largest drinking water source (the Biscayne Aquifer).

Captains for Clean Water started out as a group of fishing guides from Fort Myers, FL that “had enough” of Florida’s poor water management practices. _We have witnessed the long term decline of estuaries across south Florida – and we have seen the acceleration of that decline over just the last ten years. Inexplicably, no significant progress has been made to solve this enormous problem – and that is simply not acceptable to us. _

Given the destruction we have seen firsthand, we are convinced that _if everyone knew what we knew, this problem would have been fixed already._ Unfortunately, the solution to this problem has been obstructed by large corporate agricultural interests and government mismanagement. The science has been proven time and time again- the state needs to acquire land south of Lake Okeechobee to store, treat and convey water south. _This consensus solution has been delayed decades because our state’s lawmakers have enjoyed large-scale campaign contributions from agricultural corporations seeking to benefit from the status-quo, combined with a lack of public awareness._ We’re here to fix that.

*CAPTAINS FOR CLEAN WATER:*

 EDUCATES on the issues facing Florida’s estuaries and Everglades.
 UNITES stakeholders by finding common ground to fight for clean water.
 ADVOCATES for long-term, science-based solutions to the man-made water crisis in South Florida.
*ANYBODY CAN BE A CAPTAIN FOR CLEAN WATER!*
Captains for Clean Water not an organization exclusive to Captains, fishermen, or boaters. Join today so you can be a Captain for Clean Water! We’re not just fishing guides- we have a variety of concerned resource users actively involved with our organization. We rely on donations to spread our message. The more money we raise, the more people we reach. _Our success is defined by how many people we can educate._ We broadcast our PSA’s on television, maximize our social media presence, and give presentations to clubs, organizations, etc. We are active in the legislative process at a local, state and federal level.

_Building a strong membership gives us more power in Tallahassee and Washington DC to fight for our estuaries._


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Blue Zone said:


> Kudos to your son on the oyster project. I don't know if you saw my earlier post about Vero and oyster beds in the 60's. Your post confirms my worst fears; apparently, the oysters are pretty much gone. Where was your son deploying the mats?
> 
> For some reason, most the oyster beds started just South of where the old Barber bridge was and stretched most of the way to Ft. Pierce bordering both sides of the ICW. Great care and attention was required to stay in the channel when heading in that direction. They were not so prevalent North of the bridge presumably because the water was generally deeper.


The first group of mats were deployed in the Mosquito Lagoon because that effort was sponsored by the Nature Conservancy. The other mats were deployed on the west side behind some the spoil islands near Grand Harbor and on the Moorings Flats south of the Barber Bridge.

There are still a few small beds just south of the Wabasso Bridge on the west side and near a few of the freshwater outflows heading south to Vero.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Net 30 said:


> The first group of mats were deployed in the Mosquito Lagoon because that effort was sponsored by the Nature Conservancy. The other mats were deployed on the west side behind some the spoil islands near Grand Harbor and on the Moorings Flats south of the Barber Bridge.
> 
> There are still a few small beds just south of the Wabasso Bridge on the west side and near a few of the freshwater outflows heading south to Vero.


Were they set up around eldora? There are some mats out there off some of the docks.


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## BK922 (Jan 24, 2016)

http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-news/bringing-back-tampa-bay’s-seagrass

If you have no hope, or need a kick in the butt to care about restoration, or just need a little hope read this. 

While the task may seem a giant mountain, some here even say impossible, restoration of the lagoons is feasible over the long term. I'm from Tampa and many will say how lucky we are to have our healthy bay. But it wasn't always healthy, in fact it was facing the exact same issues in the 70's and 80's and look where we are now. It all started with a small group of citizens and with the reduction of nutrient rich runoffs, septic systems, and laws that prohibit fertilizer use in the rainy season, among other things, we have seen a tremendous rebound. Does it take time? Yes. Will it be the exact same lagoon you remember? Probably not. But if we keep working at it I'd say that we could get our clean, seagrass filled lagoons back.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

el9surf said:


> Were they set up around eldora? There are some mats out there off some of the docks.


Down close to the information center...not near any docks. They had to use picks and shovels to knock down the dead reef and then lay the new mats on top.

Here's a shot of the first deployment of one of the smaller group events.


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

Net 30 said:


> Down close to the information center...not near any docks. They had to use picks and shovels to knock down the dead reef and then lay the new mats on top.
> 
> Here's a shot of the first deployment of one of the smaller group events.
> 
> View attachment 22050


Credits to them for their volunteerism in undertaking such efforts.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

dgt2012 said:


> For some reason everyone forgets the elephant in the room. One manatee can eat over 150 lbs of seagrass a day. It took them years to realize what those clammers did to the bottom grasses raking up our resources around here. We who fish up the tributaries and creeks in Brevard cant go up there when the manatee are gathering for the winter in there. No grass left, they blow up the place and drive the gamefish out. Spawning areas get wiped out by their blubbery movement and the baitfish disappear. You can walk across Crane creek or Eau Gallie river right now on their backs.
> These sea cows are non native species that destroy our ecosystem. Yet no effort to eradicate them? Common, they are not cute, or interesting, ever had one blow up under your skiff? Your going in the pool.
> But they are editable. I worked with a gentleman from Grant back in 1985 who was in his 70's then and he told me how back in the day they would harvest one a year by throwing a snatch hook tied to the bumper of their truck and snatch em right out of the Sebastian river. Every family in town had meat for the winter.
> This is not be the complete answer but we must include thinking out of the box of those who left their homes to move here only to claim political power and destroy our resources. We will be prepared for the political battle for this scope of work and every other part of the solution, butch up and harvest them out to a manageable herd in this county.
> My 2 sense


In my earlier post, I mentioned Manatees were a fairly rare sighting back in the 60's. I had a look into this and in fact the FL manatee population was less than 1,000 in the 60's. The latest number is 6,720, a 500+ percent increase. If you use your consumption level of 150 lbs per day per animal of sea grass that's _just under 1m pounds per day _of destroyed sea grass. If that's not bad enough, then there is some significant percentage of that number of raw sea cow sewage going directly back into the water.

Maybe it's just me, but I think scenario this is just plain stupid.


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

BK922 said:


> http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-news/bringing-back-tampa-bay’s-seagrass
> 
> If you have no hope, or need a kick in the butt to care about restoration, or just need a little hope read this.
> 
> While the task may seem a giant mountain, some here even say impossible, restoration of the lagoons is feasible over the long term. I'm from Tampa and many will say how lucky we are to have our healthy bay. But it wasn't always healthy, in fact it was facing the exact same issues in the 70's and 80's and look where we are now. It all started with a small group of citizens and with the reduction of nutrient rich runoffs, septic systems, and laws that prohibit fertilizer use in the rainy season, among other things, we have seen a tremendous rebound. Does it take time? Yes. Will it be the exact same lagoon you remember? Probably not. But if we keep working at it I'd say that we could get our clean, seagrass filled lagoons back.


I would not be too quick to credit SWFWMD with advocacy for our State waters as this article suggests...spend some time reading here...https://www.microskiff.com/threads/lake-okeechobee-news-and-views.38470/ and in the Environment section in general. As a well known advocate of Florida’s waters, read Sandy Morets letters to State officials and SWFMD’s failure to provide modeling for the EAA and failings to take by State-owned land presently being used by BS (aka Big Sugar) to create STA’s for filtering water discharges. Bob LeMay is correct in stating that by our own Florida laws the only thing being discharged should be Pure Hydro (aka H2O, aka Water)
Another source for the facts...Bullsugar.org


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

Micro Thinfisher said:


> I would not be too quick to credit SWFWMD with advocacy for our State waters as this article suggests...spend some time reading here...https://www.microskiff.com/threads/lake-okeechobee-news-and-views.38470/ and in the Environment section in general. As a well known advocate of Florida’s waters, read Sandy Morets letters to State officials and SWFMD’s failure to provide modeling for the EAA and failings to take back State-owned land presently being used by BS (aka Big Sugar) to create STA’s for filtering water discharges. Bob LeMay is correct in stating that by our own Florida laws the only thing being discharged should be Pure Hydro (aka H2O, aka Water)
> Another source for the facts...Bullsugar.org


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## BK922 (Jan 24, 2016)

Oh I am quite familiar the issues at hand with S. Florida, Okeechobee, the glades, Caloosahatchee. That issue lies with with South Florida Water Management District SFWMD. Tampa Bay's governing district would be SWFWMD or Swiftmud as its known. They are not perfect of course, and my intention was to not make them out to be, rather to just show an example of a Florida estuary that was also in dire straits that with some work and cooperation was brought back to be a healthy system.


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

BK922 - Sorry my comment was not really directed at you, but rather the article. And I too agree TBEP is a successful model of how concerted efforts can lead to positive change. Just wish more people would voice their concerns for the CERP and the need to do it now to those that need to hear the message.


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