# New to fly fishing



## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Take a look here http://www.allenflyfishing.com/. Echo has a 8wt combo for around $150 if you really want to keep the price down. There's lots of budget options available today that perform decent.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

First off, welcome to ms and specifically the fly board. @RunningOnEmpty gave some good advice with Allen, go to their website and sign up for the marketing BS, they will alert you to sales they run, I picked up an Azimuth for about half what they're selling for now.
Review Here
http://www.microskiff.com/threads/allen-azimuth-review-pic-heavy.39917/

I will add Cabela's to the list, the rods are made overseas but most all of the budget minded stuff is. Again watch their website for sales, here is a link to their RLS+ combo, it's $170 I bought it when it was on sale for $129 for a backup/loaner. It comes with a rod case, prespooled, etc..The line that comes on it is ok and will cast, but upgrade after you fish it and lawn cast it for a few months. Before you fish it with the factory line pull it all off and tie some proper nail knots, Albright....etc, the knots from the factory are truly absurd.

Good Luck
LH

Fair warning
There's a guy here named @Backwater that'll be along shortly...to ask you a ton of questions and write a short novel. LOL


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Dave, the absolute best advice I can give you is FORGET looking at gear. Wait. Go find a certified instructor and take lessons. They will prove immensely valuable and get you started on the right track. Books and videos are fine and sound investments. But nothing beats a good instructor. You will pick it up so much quicker and be much better off learning how to do it correctly.


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## CrappieFisherman (Mar 15, 2015)

ifsteve said:


> Dave, the absolute best advice I can give you is FORGET looking at gear. Wait. Go find a certified instructor and take lessons. They will prove immensely valuable and get you started on the right track. Books and videos are fine and sound investments. But nothing beats a good instructor. You will pick it up so much quicker and be much better off learning how to do it correctly.


Also, be humble, and laugh often. My first few times fly fishing I had Yoda's mantra running through my head: you must unlearn what you have learned. goofy yes, but true.

Oh, and be forewarned, if you do hook a red, you may just get stuck on this chucking feathers at fish thing.

Personally, I am a fan of TFO, namely because they are inexpensive, and perform well enough. As for reels, you can do no wrong with an Okuma SLV. They are inexpensive, and have a good enough drag for reds. Personally, I still have yet to have anyone explain how a fly reel should be as expensive as a Penn or Shimano deep sea conventional reel...way fewer parts, way less material, way less drag, way less complicated, and yet the same price? I think a lot of fly gear is designed more to catch the fisherman than the fish.

With that said, spending money on the line is worth it! And pay attention to your air and water temps, and the line rating. Fly line is very sensitive to temperature.

Welcome, and let is know how it goes!


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

CrappieFisherman said:


> Oh, and be forewarned, if you do hook a red, you may just get stuck on this chucking feathers at fish thing.


 you forgot, obsession with tying the feathers on the hook, will follow shortly thereafter lol


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## fly-chucker (Jul 22, 2008)

bigairdave said:


> I really want to get into fly fishing for snook and reds in the flats, but there is so many different types of rods lines flys etc. that I have no idea where to start. Also not trying to break the bank on my first fly set up, any tips or advice is appreciated!


I just posted some saltwater fly fishing books and a beginners fly fishing book for sale on the misc for sale section of the forum. While they don't replace hands on instruction they are excellent reference books for both fly casting, tying, techniques, and equipment selection. Good luck!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

bigairdave said:


> I really want to get into fly fishing for snook and reds in the flats, but there is so many different types of rods lines flys etc. that I have no idea where to start. Also not trying to break the bank on my first fly set up, any tips or advice is appreciated!


What area do you live?


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## bigairdave (Oct 19, 2016)

Personally, I am a fan of TFO, namely because they are inexpensive, and perform well enough. As for reels, you can do no wrong with an Okuma SLV. They are inexpensive, and have a good enough drag for reds. Personally, I still have yet to have anyone explain how a fly reel should be as expensive as a Penn or Shimano deep sea conventional reel...way fewer parts, way less material, way less drag, way less complicated, and yet the same price? I think a lot of fly gear is designed more to catch the fisherman than the fish.

that was my main question "is it really worth spending the extra 2,3,4,5 hundred dollars or is a 200 dollar set up adequate?" so thank you



Backwater said:


> What area do you live?


fort myers area so fishing pine island Sanibel area


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## bigairdave (Oct 19, 2016)

sorry still trying to figure out how to use the sight and reply to specific comments


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Dave, I know the area well (I have too many years fishing there! Ha!)

It's ok to feel how you do. Many people have their ideas on things and their vises. Fly fishing attracts lots of gear heads and there are plenty of mfgs to accommodate them. I've caught plenty of fish on cheap and expensive equipment, vintage and the latest greatest thing and about everything in between. And when it comes right down to it, catching the fish is the most important thing. To do that, whatever equipment is sufficient enough to do the job right, that you feel good about and have confidence in, within your budget. Then that's the best rig for you! 

"Value" to me, is one of the most important thing in determining what gear to get. In other words.... *Value* = what will meet the demands of your needs in equipment and can have the confidence in (based on a combination of experience, research and trusted recommendations) *vs* the cost of doing that for you, at that particular stage of the game, that fits within your budget or willingness to invest that much into it (financially or time). If, you are satisfied with the "value" of the equipment you use to accomplish the task, then that's all that counts! 

Start off with the Okuma SLV. Rod and fly line is more important than the reel anyways.

There's about a 1/2 dozen rods I can recommend at or under $200 new. You can also look at a good used one for at or under that price as well. Probably an 8wt would be your best bet to start out with.

I'll try to look up some deals for you tomorrow and provide the links.

Ted Haas

P.S. Vote for Sonny Haas for Lee County Commissioner (shameless plug for my lil bro!  )


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/8wt-tfo-bvk-for-sale-brand-new.41585/#post-325942

@bigairdave Check it out, may be just your speed......


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Get plugged into your local fly fishing scene...buy used...put the spin gear away...and go fishing...

Joan Wullf's casting videos are a great place to start if you have no casting experience and noone to show you the basics.


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## ol' superskiff (Oct 22, 2015)

crboggs said:


> Get plugged into your local fly fishing scene...buy used...put the spin gear away...and go fishing...
> 
> Joan Wullf's casting videos are a great place to start if you have no casting experience and noone to show you the basics.


I will second used gear. Quality, used gear on E- Bay or wherever is tough to beat and was not an option when I started out, can't really comment on any new entry level gear. 

Also second that getting a basic cast down is far more important than gear if you want to stay with fly fishing and have some fun along the way.

And the third second if there is such a thing is personal instruction. In Central Florida Jon Cave used to instruct a few fly fishing/tying courses at Seminole CC. What a bargain, worked out to like $8.50 a lesson for a semester in the casting classes. And he's the man, helped me a lot.

I'd check out the CC's down your way, as well any other low or no cost instruction.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Local clubs will often host casting or fly tying clinics as well.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

This is a good place to start.






It's cheap for what you are getting. They have an instant download for $39.95.

http://www.tforods.com/thecompletecast


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## bigairdave (Oct 19, 2016)

Thank you all for the tips definitely gonna try and find a local club


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

There's a great fly club just north of you in the Port Charlotte/ Punta Gorda area called Charlotte Harbor Fly Fishers. 

http://chff.us/


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I was talking with the fishing club at FGCU a while back about doing a fly fishing clinic in the area. I might go ahead and get some talks going with the new guys who took over the club. The guys I was working with graduated last year.

As for gear, a good reel is a a good reel. I worked my way up to the gear I have today, and I myself am not like many. I personally feel a rod is a rod. I don't care who makes it, if it feels good to me and I cast well with it, I will buy and use it. Now, fly line, and fly reel on the other hand, that's where that logic goes away. I use Nautilus reels, for several reasons. Yes, they cost more money, but they are local; made 100% in Miami, FL. If I've ever had an issue (which I did a couple times with the old FWX series) I just stopped by and they took care of it. I just showed up there one day to get my reel checked, and I met Jesus and Kristen for the first time. Jesus gave me a shop tour and showed me how the reels are made from scratch to the final product. By the time the tour was done, the reel was repaired. Since then, I have built a relationship with them throughout the years. I am loyal to their brand as they make a quality product, but are also quality guys that I have become friends with. Now, just because I choose to fish Nautilus doesn't mean I discriminate towards other brands. I also owned a few Orvis reels that I liked throughout the years, as well as Redington reels. And fly line is a big factor when it comes to a fly setup. For me, my favorite line is Royal Wulff's bermuda triangle taper.I like the way it throws, how long it lasts, I've been fishing their lines for about 7-8 years, and have some of my reels lined for over a year and the line is still in great shape. Whereas I also love how Rio Quickshooter throws, and Cortland's Liquid Crystal line, but they don't holdup too well to the elements. I have been throwing Cortland's liquid crystal on my 5wt since July and I love it, but it hasn't faired well with the rocks and such when fishing off the shore. But I will keep using it for certain situations as I do like the way it throws and feels.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Here's a second vote for Nautilus... I've never had the slightest problem with one of them (I have a half dozen of their reels in hard commercial service) and I can't say that about some of the other reels I've had.... I've seen more than one high end reel on my skiff, brought by one of my anglers, that wasn't exactly trouble free so I do have a basis for comparison. Like many I started out with whatever was available (and cheapest) but you learn over time that a quality reel is literally a lifetime proposition. I'm pretty sure those Nautilus reels will outlast me...


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I started fly fishing a couple of years ago and have fallen head over heels for it. I would suggest to get a quality rod and line and a $100-$150 reel. My thoughts on this are if you get the equipment and decide that you don't like fly fishing, it's not because you're using bad equipment. 

My first setup was the St. Croix Rio Santos that I got online because I didn't want to poke my head in a fly shop and scream rookie. I wish I had because my first time in an actual fly shop I wound up casting 5 or 6 different rods and getting advice to improve my cast. Of those 5-6 rods that I was casting, 3-4 were in the same price range as my original setup but were night and day as far as how it felt.

I have a buddy who bought a budget setup from bass pro and went out for 3-4 weeks trying to enjoy it but ended up leaving the fly rod at home. I tried to cast it and I know now why he didn't enjoy fly fishing. He now owns a TFO BVK 8wt and only fly fishes.


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## bigairdave (Oct 19, 2016)

paint it black said:


> I was talking with the fishing club at FGCU a while back about doing a fly fishing clinic in the area. I might go ahead and get some talks going with the new guys who took over the club. The guys I was working with graduated last year.
> 
> As for gear, a good reel is a a good reel. I worked my way up to the gear I have today, and I myself am not like many. I personally feel a rod is a rod. I don't care who makes it, if it feels good to me and I cast well with it, I will buy and use it. Now, fly line, and fly reel on the other hand, that's where that logic goes away. I use Nautilus reels, for several reasons. Yes, they cost more money, but they are local; made 100% in Miami, FL. If I've ever had an issue (which I did a couple times with the old FWX series) I just stopped by and they took care of it. I just showed up there one day to get my reel checked, and I met Jesus and Kristen for the first time. Jesus gave me a shop tour and showed me how the reels are made from scratch to the final product. By the time the tour was done, the reel was repaired. Since then, I have built a relationship with them throughout the years. I am loyal to their brand as they make a quality product, but are also quality guys that I have become friends with. Now, just because I choose to fish Nautilus doesn't mean I discriminate towards other brands. I also owned a few Orvis reels that I liked throughout the years, as well as Redington reels. And fly line is a big factor when it comes to a fly setup. For me, my favorite line is Royal Wulff's bermuda triangle taper.I like the way it throws, how long it lasts, I've been fishing their lines on some of my reels for over a year and the line is still in great shape. Whereas I also love how Rio Quickshooter throws, and Cortland's clear line, but they don't holdup too well to the elements. I have been throwing Cortland's liquid crystal on my 5wt since July and I love it, but it hasn't faired well with the rocks and such when fishing off the shore. But I will keep using it for certain situations as I do like the way it throws and feels.


I know a few guys on the fgcu fishing team cool guys to fish with


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Guys, I'm a big fan of Nautilus reels as well, along with other high end reels. Yes, Nautilus are now a big company and they make a great reel. Is it worth it to pay a few more $$ to get an entry level Nautilus? Sure! Are there other good options out there that offer good value for the money? Yes. I can think of several. But at this point, he's trying to stick with a budget, getting into this thing. There is nothing wrong with the Okuma SLV being a starter reel for now, especially to see if he wants to be in this thing or not. That reel has a fair drag that works and is a good starting point. Let the guy get his feet wet and then go from there.

I was taught this one principle from Stu Apte and Lefty Krey many, many years ago. Whereas, your 1st priority is the rod, then the line and finally the reel. How is it that we still caught fish on click and pawl reels back in the day? The guy is wading and fishing from shore for snook, reds, sea trout, lady fish and jacks (maybe a flounder or trash fish as well. He might even get lucky and catch a juvi poon. How much drag will that require? 50ft to 50yrds? Sure I love a nice smooth faultless drag as well as the next guy. But that Okuma will work and get him started out of the gate. Don't fret, as he likes fly fishing, he'll work into equipment he feels he'll need. Or he may feel that the Okuma is satisfactory and enough to fill the bill. But that's his choice and I for one will not knock him for it.

Quick story on the subject. I was using a well known quality reel (I'll not comment on what it was) with another buddy and halfway thru the day we got in some good fish and were hooking up left and right. Then the reel locked up for some reason (mechanical, not drag) and didn't have a backup on-board. However, I did manage to get the spool off and peel off the rest of the flyline on the deck. So for shitz and giggles, I was using fly line only and took the reel right out of the equation, just to see if I could do it. They were nice size fish but not bruisers. I spent the next 2 hours landing as many fish as my buddy with a "no reel" situation and they never got me into the backing (nor did I let them). So..... Just sayin....

No question, a very nice reel is nice to have. But his reel is plenty sufficient, at least for now. He needs to focus on a rod he can "Feel" starting out and a good line that will allow him to "Feel" it load with. IMO, a BVK 8wt is too fast to start out learning with. If you are not experienced, it's a hard rod to feel it loading, so your start up time will be much longer. Still, that is a good deal on that BVK. But he'll need to get with someone to help him figure out how to cast that rod. Otherwise, he'll be flailing the water into a froth.

I teach newbies with a rod TFO developed for Project Healing Waters Fly Fishing (teaching disabled vets how to fly fish). It's on the lines of a Professional II or a Bob Clouser rod. Most trout guys from up north will think its a fast rod, but slower to our standards comparing it to a BVK (or some high end rod )and not as stiff as a TiCRx. I would classify it as a moderate fast rod. It loads easy with little effort and can still throw a decent loop and reach out there, but can also throw easy for close in shots. Reminds me of a faster version of the old Loomis GL3. Very accurate rod for what it is and nice looking. TFO sells them direct to thr public for $149 and some of the proceeds goes to benefiting Project Healing Waters Fly Fishing, which is a good cause. I think Rick Pope did a great job having this rod developed for that purpose. I personally think it's an ideal start up rod, great bass rod and a great backup rod. Heck, I have no problem fishing it on occasions. We have a PHWFF wade trip coming up in the Palmetto/Bradenton area of FL (Nov 5th) where we'll be taking vets out to fly fish. I'll be using that rod then too since it works great for wading.










TFO does have a decent flyline to match with these rods for $39.00, made by Airflo, that is bright orange so you can see what your flyline is doing, not just feel it too. A lot of times we forget about that when learning how to fly cast. To me, clear lines are out for that purpose and it's still hard to see a sky blue line against a bluebird sky when learning how to cast. I have no problems with the fly lines recommended on this thread, tho the reason I recommended a Rio Redfish is it's slightly heavier and easier to feel the rod loading, especially someone new to fly fishing. But I think the TFO orange line is a good line to learn on so the caster can easily see what's going on with his fly line. THAT, to begin with, is more important and getting figured out than going out catching fish with it. The fish will come, but the cast may never and will be the #1 reason why so many people walk away from fly fishing.

No matter what starter outfit he settles with (and there are many good options out there), that doesn't have to be the end all outfit. He can later upgrade or keep it as a 2nd or backup outfit. It's a known fact that fly rod & reel companies sell 10 times the starter outfits as the mid to high end rods and reels, combined. They do it for a reason.

In summery, casting first! Patience..... The fish will come later! 

Ted Haas


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## FSUDrew99 (Feb 3, 2015)

3X for Nautilus. I will say I love my FWX... great reel, not terribly expensive and VERY light. Makes it hard to justify going for the same size reel with another company when the weight is almost 2X that of the FWX.


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

Lot of good info here. As a beginner you will learn probably the hard way that fly rods are fickle and fragile. Tips are easy to break, especially when throwing clousers with an on shoulder breeze. TFO and Redington both have great no-fault warranties. I think only the cheapest Redington is not covered and it even applies to second owners which I have used more than once. As mentioned keep a sense of humor and you might want to pinch your barbs down too. Much easier to remove.


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

fly-chucker said:


> I just posted some saltwater fly fishing books and a beginners fly fishing book for sale on the misc for sale section of the forum. While they don't replace hands on instruction they are excellent reference books for both fly casting, tying, techniques, and equipment selection. Good luck!


Took a look at those books. I have three of them and the price is great for the bunch.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Bananabob, I've fished with many Redingtons (and owned some). Put a Redington Predator in my hand to fish with and I will be all over with that rod like white on rice! lol


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

Backwater
It took me a while but I finally found another CPS 8wt I tragically broke early last year. Also have CPS in 5 and 6wts. I'm very careful now these days with them.


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

Also ditto on the Okuma SLV. My first reel was a 5/6 and it's probably 12+ years old and mostly used in the salt. It is still quite smooth with next to no corrosion. Doesn't look very pretty but very surprising how good the drag is after so many years. Always remember to back it off when done.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Backwater said:


> Guys, I'm a big fan of Nautilus reels as well, along with other high end reels. Yes, Nautilus are now a big company and they make a great reel. Is it worth it to pay a few more $$ to get an entry level Nautilus? Sure! Are there other good options out there that offer good value for the money? Yes. I can think of several. But at this point, he's trying to stick with a budget, getting into this thing. There is nothing wrong with the Okuma SLV being a starter reel for now, especially to see if he wants to be in this thing or not. That reel has a fair drag that works and is a good starting point. Let the guy get his feet wet and then go from there.
> 
> I was taught this one principle from Stu Apte and Lefty Krey many, many years ago. Whereas, your 1st priority is the rod, then the line and finally the reel. How is it that we still caught fish on click and pawl reels back in the day? The guy is wading and fishing from shore for snook, reds, sea trout, lady fish and jacks (maybe a flounder or trash fish as well. He might even get lucky and catch a juvi poon. How much drag will that require? 50ft to 50yrds? Sure I love a nice smooth faultless drag as well as the next guy. But that Okuma will work and get him started out of the gate. Don't fret, as he likes fly fishing, he'll work into equipment he feels he'll need. Or he may feel that the Okuma is satisfactory and enough to fill the bill. But that's his choice and I for one will not knock him for it.
> 
> ...


Well Ted, after all your pontificating you have proven my point. The rod is more important than the reel. The reel simply holds line and has a drag. But I bet if your rod broke you would be out of business
IMHO


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Reels are expensive line holders...I think matching your line and rod is much more important.

Full disclosure: I have a Tibor Everglade and Tibor Gulfstream on my 8wt and 12wt.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

crboggs said:


> *Reels are expensive line holders.*..I think matching your line and rod is much more important.
> 
> Full disclosure: I have a Tibor Everglade and Tibor Gulfstream on my 8wt and 12wt.


 Be careful making broad brushed statements. In many cases indeed the reel is just not a critical tool. But there are also lots of cases where its damn important!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Be careful making broad brushed statements. In many cases indeed the reel is just not a critical tool. But there are also lots of cases where its damn important!


Big tarpon fishing and offshore pelagic brutes for sure. The reel may even be more important than the rod at that point.

But I think in his case for inshore, not as much as the rod and line. So I think what he wants to start with will be sufficient for now. He can choose to upgrade later. I personally would like to see him just get something to get him out fishing, than lament on what to get and talk himself out of the whole thing. He's welcome to drive about 1.5 north of Ft Myers and come see me so I can get him started casting properly, to get him a good jump start.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

ifsteve said:


> Be careful making broad brushed statements. In many cases indeed the reel is just not a critical tool. But there are also lots of cases where its damn important!


Sure...sure...notice I admitted that I've got Tibors hanging off my 8wt and 12wt. That's just in case I hook into a big red, snook, cobia on the 8wt that takes me into my backing. And obviously you don't throw a 12wt at anything you don't expect to become a workout.

I have a Lamson Speedster on my 6wt...a cheaper reel than the Tibor...but I didn't even need that the afternoon I landed a 30" snook that never took me to the reel...not even on the 6wt... *lol*

Beginners should focus on matching their rods and lines, so they can get the fly in front of the fish consistently. If they are getting eats so reliably that they need better brakes...well I think that's a fantastic problem to have.


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