# Let's Talk Goats.....Again.



## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Like so many others, I want to get a sheep to eat a fly that has been tied by yours truly. But I need a little help.

First. The fly. I have materials on the way for a couple different shrimp patterns that I think will be effective based on what I have heard. Currently I plan to tie on longer shank bonefish hooks Gamakatsu SL45 in size 4. Is this a good size? I also plan to leave off any flash. Again, good idea or bad?

Location. I have seen hundreds upon hundreds of goats while redfishing and have even accidentally boated a few (just never on fly). In every case it has been on shallow flats immediately next to deeper channels or bays. These flats have had sparse grass throughout them and the sheep normally seem to be grouped up 2 or 3 at a time all huddled around clumps of grass. I assume they are munching on the barnacles that were growing sub surface. So my question...... I know these fish are skittish so how do you approach them with the intention to sight cast them? Pole onto the flats and chunk at dark patches that could be sheep or wait until I am close enough to identify before casting?

I've heard it's a slow eat. Let it sink down. Sit. Sllloooowwwwww strip. Eat. If this is true, do you cast for their nose or try to put it a foot out? Or more?

Any input would be appreciated.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Sounds like someone is warming up for the Sheepy 

You're just going to have to practice. Since I won't be fishing the sheepy this year due to my boat not being completed in time for the tournament, I'll share my setup. I've become obsessed with sheephead and sharks lately. It's gotten so bad that only one rod out of 4 in the boat is set up for redfish. I like long leaders, 10 to 12 footers, and flies tied on hooks with a heavy shank and bead chain eyes. I don't mess around too much with sheeps that are on the move or laid up. Tailing sheephead is my favorite, followed closely by ones that are crawling along the bank. I haven't noticed too much difference in fly patterns, they seem to happily eat most small redfish flies, assuming you're casting at feeding fish. The fly isn't the issue, it's the presentation. They are spooky little bastards.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> Sounds like someone is warming up for the Sheepy
> 
> You're just going to have to practice. Since I won't be fishing the sheepy this year due to my boat not being completed in time for the tournament, I'll share my setup. I've become obsessed with sheephead and sharks lately. It's gotten so bad that only one rod out of 4 in the boat is set up for redfish. I like long leaders, 10 to 12 footers, and flies tied on hooks with a heavy shank and bead chain eyes. I don't mess around too much with sheeps that are on the move or laid up. Tailing sheephead is my favorite, followed closely by ones that are crawling along the bank. I haven't noticed too much difference in fly patterns, they seem to happily eat most small redfish flies, assuming you're casting at feeding fish. The fly isn't the issue, it's the presentation. They are spooky little bastards.


Haha got me! This will be my first year fishing it. New boat, new to saltwater fly fishing, and new to the species on the fly.... I'm not liking my odds but I bet I have some fun!


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

You never know. It only takes one fish. I'm sure we have all spent $300 on less fun.

Side note- They are excellent table fare. A bitch the clean and they have a low yield, but they are a very very good eating fish. Great ceviche, maybe the best. Smoked whole with head on is great as well.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

I have never targeted them on fly, but am a little confused on the skittish aspects you guys mention only because I have a friend that goes gigging for flounder and often gigs sheephead in the same sandy bottom. If he can get close enough to them to gig, I would imagine they would not be that skittish. Of course, he goes gigging at night which could very well make a huge difference


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> You never know. It only takes one fish. I'm sure we have all spent $300 on less fun.
> 
> Side note- They are excellent table fare. A bitch the clean and they have a low yield, but they are a very very good eating fish. Great ceviche, maybe the best. Smoked whole with head on is great as well.


Yea I have in my life cleaned 2 or 3. Not fun.



yobata said:


> I have never targeted them on fly, but am a little confused on the skittish aspects you guys mention only because I have a friend that goes gigging for flounder and often gigs sheephead in the same sandy bottom. If he can get close enough to them to gig, I would imagine they would not be that skittish. Of course, he goes gigging at night which could very well make a huge difference


I know that on very few occasions of me spotting sheep have they not blown out of there well before I would be able to put a fly on them. And most of these times were in a kayak making as little noise as possible. BUT, maybe I am doing something wrong. Not sure. I've had my new skiff a month now and have seen maybe 6. I would not have had a chance at any of them. Haven't seen any tailers yet in the boat. Maybe that'll be the ticket.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

yobata said:


> I have never targeted them on fly, but am a little confused on the skittish aspects you guys mention only because I have a friend that goes gigging for flounder and often gigs sheephead in the same sandy bottom. If he can get close enough to them to gig, I would imagine they would not be that skittish. Of course, he goes gigging at night which could very well make a huge difference


Most of the time you can get pretty close to them, close enough that I routinely try to poke them with push pole. Gigging them wouldn't be much of an issue, getting them to eat a fly is a completely different challenge all together. 9 times out of 10 they spook when the fly lands in their field of view. People spear permit all the time, yet getting them to eat a fly is difficult. 

Think about how many flounder get caught on fly vs how many get stabbed.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I posted in the last thread, but like @jmrodandgun donkeyteef have become my absolute obsession lately. As a disclaimer, I'm still yet to land one on fly, but last outing I got a few eats which is by far more successful than anything before that. 

What you've observed is about the same as what I have. They're normally hanging around spartina grass, oyster reefs or old duck blind pilings and are pretty skittish. They're sensitive to shadows and big movements but if you are able to pole up from the back quarter of them or if they're prowling you can usually get pretty close. However what I've found to be the most productive is to stake out along a shoreline or patch of grass that I've seen a few sheepies on and wait. I'll stand on the front deck of my skiff and when I see one I'll crouch down to make the cast. Those bars really stand out even in murky water so I'll usually put myself around 40 ft from the shoreline. For me that's a good balance between not being seen and me still being able to make an accurate cast which is absolutely necessary. I lead the fish by about 8-10 feet. You may be able to cast closer but the fish I would cast at would rush it even at that distance. At that point, I just let it sit keeping tension. If they didn't eat, I would hold my fly line and SLOWLY roll my stripping hand back towards myself. Repeat the process of sit, roll hand and wait until the fish eats, loses interest or blows out. What I found on this last trip that was interesting was when they eat they'll kind of roll onto their side slightly. If you don't feel the bite that can be a good tell. 

Now for the fly, I had success with two flies. The first fly I got an eat on I'll have to tie another and take a picture of bc that fish ate and immediately ran straight behind a clump of oyster and cut me off. But basically it's a squimp variation that I tied on a No.6 SL45 but I used grizzly rabbit fur for the tail and wing and used olive ice dub for the body and an X-small lead eye for the body. I also added some orange calf tail under the rabbit fur wing. That one caught the first fish I saw that day. I think the rabbit fur pulsing and moving even when the fly was stationary helped in enticing the bite. The other fly I was able to get eats on is similar to this.










No name for it, but it's inspired by the permit rat fly. I tied it on a No.4 SL45 (a No. 2 34007 is shown above). Instead of coyote like the one above, I used grizzly rabbit fur and a little tuft of orange EP to mimic an egg sack. The body is EP tarantula brush. Trim EP brush on the inside of the hook down all the way to open up the hook gap. I trim the bottom down too but not as much bc it lets the fly stand up a little. The wing is deer hair with a little orange kip tail under it. I usually throw it for reds when they cruise the banks looking for fiddler crabs. It works great in purple and black too. Figured a smaller version might work on sheepshead. This fly doesn't have any flash but that first one did with the ice dub body and black crystal flash antenna. I'm not sure if sheepies shy from flash or not just yet. My thought is that in clear water they might as something like a crab doesn't have any flash to it. 

Some other tips I've been told are they're easier to catch when they're in pairs or schools. I guess bc they're competing. Windy days seem to make them less spooky and more aggressive. Also, some guys will bend the hook shank out slightly to get better hookups. I haven't tried this, but after failing to get a good hookset on a couple of fish, I may have to give it a try.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

I caught 4 last year using this fly.
http://marshflyusa.com/journal/2015/4/13/the-texas-permit


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

rakeel said:


> I posted in the last thread, but like @jmrodandgun donkeyteef have become my absolute obsession lately. As a disclaimer, I'm still yet to land one on fly, but last outing I got a few eats which is by far more successful than anything before that.
> 
> What you've observed is about the same as what I have. They're normally hanging around spartina grass, oyster reefs or old duck blind pilings and are pretty skittish. They're sensitive to shadows and big movements but if you are able to pole up from the back quarter of them or if they're prowling you can usually get pretty close. However what I've found to be the most productive is to stake out along a shoreline or patch of grass that I've seen a few sheepies on and wait. I'll stand on the front deck of my skiff and when I see one I'll crouch down to make the cast. Those bars really stand out even in murky water so I'll usually put myself around 40 ft from the shoreline. For me that's a good balance between not being seen and me still being able to make an accurate cast which is absolutely necessary. I lead the fish by about 8-10 feet. You may be able to cast closer but the fish I would cast at would rush it even at that distance. At that point, I just let it sit keeping tension. If they didn't eat, I would hold my fly line and SLOWLY roll my stripping hand back towards myself. Repeat the process of sit, roll hand and wait until the fish eats, loses interest or blows out. What I found on this last trip that was interesting was when they eat they'll kind of roll onto their side slightly. If you don't feel the bite that can be a good tell.
> 
> ...


I was going to tie some shrimp flies up that sort of look like the one in the picture above. I was thinking bucktail for the tail and finn raccoon and ep brush for the body on an SL45 #4. Maybe I need to camp a couple flats like you're talking about. My first goal is to get a cast off without spooking one. I'll worry about the take afterwards lol.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I had never caught a sheepshead till last summer. I took my grandson out on my boat and with 4 fishing no opportunity to use a fly rod. We drifted cut fresh shrimp along the grass bank and caught 12. Kept some to eat
So use a shrimp fly. You almost have to set the hook before you feel a bite they bite so light. Shrimp heads worked on a couple


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

yobata said:


> I have never targeted them on fly, but am a little confused on the skittish aspects you guys mention only because I have a friend that goes gigging for flounder and often gigs sheephead in the same sandy bottom. If he can get close enough to them to gig, I would imagine they would not be that skittish. Of course, he goes gigging at night which could very well make a huge difference


You're right, they're a completely different fish at night. I used to gig them in the rocks all the time in the winter where I grew up in Yankeetown. Where I fish now St Joe, Panama City area, you're lucky to get within 60'-70' of one before you see a striped bullet tearing across the flat at mach 3. Last time I was out, I got one to look at a fly until I started to move the fly and then it was just a cloud in the water where he was lol.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Like other said, if you find tailing fish they are much more receptive to flies and not spooking. For tailing fish i don't think the fly matters that much, below is a picture of my wife with her first sheep that she fed a 3" baitfish pattern to and that was one of 4 fish she hooked that day on the same fly all the fish were tailing and feeding pretty hard.

I have had some decent success with fish that are slow cruising and picking at random grass/oyster with a hometie version of sandbar flies fighting blue crab fly tied on a sl-12s size 2 or one the mustad c-70sd size 4. When completed the size of the crab body is in between a dime and a nickel as a size reference.

or maybe i have just been lucky.


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## noahvale (May 24, 2016)

They love shrimp, but not necessarily shrimp flies. They will bite a clouser pattern. I was just talking to a friend about a trip we make 20 yrs ago. We caught 26 goats on live shrimp at Timbalier Island, all in the same opening in the rocks. Catching them was fun, but cleaning 26 sheeps was no fun.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Tiny flies, long leaders, dead calm stealth. Fish the flies slow, carp and permit style. They'll eat - not every one of them, but you'll get them with patience. I caught a big one wading one time - thing was a beast.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Sorry I said "tiny flies" on a fly fishing forum. That could mean a size 24 midge on 8x tippet..... 

Size 4 to 8 crabs are good, so are small shrimp patterns. Match fly color to the bottom. I've fished small redfish crack flies and caught them too.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Here's the other fly I was talking about in my earlier reply.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

I tied up some shrimp flies on #4s with a minimal amount of flash and fairly small profiles. 

View attachment 5846


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Anyone catching sheep on a light fly rod? I have a 5 wt for my backcountry trout trips but I want to get more use out of it. Thinking of throwing it at slot reds and maybe sheep.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

All of my summer time redfishing is done with 5 and 6 wt fly rods. The 5wt even has a fighting butt. No problems at all. 

I'm not real sure it matters what rod you bring to the sheepy. If you look real close you will notice those fish swim around with little graduation caps and Harvard diplomas.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> All of my summer time redfishing is done with 5 and 6 wt fly rods. The 5wt even has a fighting butt. No problems at all.
> 
> I'm not real sure it matters what rod you bring to the sheepy. If you look real close you will notice those fish swim around with little graduation caps and Harvard diplomas.


Nice. So if I put 0X or 1X tippet with a 16-20lb tapered leader and throw number 2-6 flies I shouldn't have any issues overloading the rod on the casts?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't know. Go throw one around and see what you think. I use that tippet size on 20 pound and up fish. The 5 wt gets 8 pound test tippet and the 6wt gets a 10 or 12lb test.


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

I got two to eat in La. last weekend, but both came unbuttoned. Maybe I set the hook too soon, or maybe the big Redfish Kwans I was throwing were too big for them.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Well I broke out the 5 wt to practice after work only to discover that it's actually a 4 wt. Little on the light side.


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## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

I have caught 10 or so of these ba$!*?ds on fly in a couple years. My biggest fish being 6-8#s on a Kwan/Crack type fly I tie up. A friend that guides over La way had a customer land what he believes would've been the La record on fly. So with all that in mind, plus wanting to do a little friendly trash talking, we decided to fish that sucker. 4 sheepys total caught in 2 days between 8 boats. Well 3 skiffs didnt show for day 2 due to the weather forecast I think. We found 20 or so on day 1 with 3 or 4 plop shots & no eats. Also got into a 100 or so reds that afternoon which was damn fine. No shots on day 2. It was a great event with a solid group of humans; degenerate fishing guides, and their over served fishing partners alike. I'll do it again next year. Feb 24/25. Triston & Spike won the deal & had biggest Sheep also (I think). Dini & LaRose got smallest Red side pot with something like a 16 & 3/4" fish. E-money who'd you fish with & did I meet you?


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

WillW said:


> I have caught 10 or so of these ba$!*?ds on fly in a couple years. My biggest fish being 6-8#s on a Kwan/Crack type fly I tie up. A friend that guides over La way had a customer land what he believes would've been the La record on fly. So with all that in mind, plus wanting to do a little friendly trash talking, we decided to fish that sucker. 4 sheepys total caught in 2 days between 8 boats. Well 3 skiffs didnt show for day 2 due to the weather forecast I think. We found 20 or so on day 1 with 3 or 4 plop shots & no eats. Also got into a 100 or so reds that afternoon which was damn fine. No shots on day 2. It was a great event with a solid group of humans; degenerate fishing guides, and their over served fishing partners alike. I'll do it again next year. Feb 24/25. Triston & Spike won the deal & had biggest Sheep also (I think). Dini & LaRose got smallest Red side pot with something like a 16 & 3/4" fish. E-money who'd you fish with & did I meet you?


I fished with Ditch out of the Blue Vantage VHP. We only found two sheep all weekend and didn't have a shot. Like you we saw a ton of reds, maybe 30 or 40. Had plenty good throws at them but they wouldn't eat. Weather had them all locked up I guess. I hope we met. I tried to shake everyone's hand and chat for a minute. It was a good time. I look forward to next year.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I heard it was a little breezy this past weekend.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> I heard it was a little breezy this past weekend.


It was brutal man. Makes chunking flies around a challenge for sure. Especially for the amateurs like me.


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## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

E-money said:


> It was brutal man. Makes chunking flies around a challenge for sure. Especially for the amateurs like me.


We caught a handful of reds & lost a couple too. I met your partner but not you. John & I were fishing out of the Phanton. Y'all pulled away from us in the bayou on Sunday doing 54mph I think Ditch said. That a nice sled he's got there & it runs like a scalded dog. Y'all should have stuck around. Sunday was ice cream but no damn sun.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

WillW said:


> We caught a handful of reds & lost a couple too. I met your partner but not you. John & I were fishing out of the Phanton. Y'all pulled away from us in the bayou on Sunday doing 54mph I think Ditch said. That a nice sled he's got there & it runs like a scalded dog. Y'all should have stuck around. Sunday was ice cream but no damn sun.


We fished Sunday, we just didn't stay for weigh in as we didn't have any fish to weigh. Plus I had to get home to pick up my new puppy.


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## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

Nice, saw the new one on your IG. Labs are the best. Just put my female down that I've had for 11 years. I liked her more than most humans. Damn dogs


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

WillW said:


> Nice, saw the new one on your IG. Labs are the best. Just put my female down that I've had for 11 years. I liked her more than most humans. Damn dogs


Sorry to hear that. My oldest is almost 9 and I'm dreading the day.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Why do y'all have to talk about that? Now I'm gonna have to run back home and have a bring the dogs to work day.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

WillW said:


> Labs are the best. Just put my female down that I've had for 11 years.


We've sent a black female and yellow male across the rainbow bridge. Labs are great.

Our male german shepherd is starting to show some gray on his muzzle. When he goes it will crush my wife and daughters.

My next pup will be on the water with me from a young age. I just need to have my new skiff before then.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Serve them up!!!
































Wait, no one is catchin sheepies? That's bha-a-a-a-a-ad.....


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## dbrady784 (Feb 17, 2014)

I've been fortunate enough to actually catch all 6 of my sheeps at night in a dock light. All of them caught on a 5wt and an epoxy shrimp, I'm sure other flies work just depends on the setting. 

I've fished the flood tides several times and man are those tailers hard to catch! Sometimes they are just so fixated on whatever there eating down there that you can pole right up to them and hit them with the fly rod. 

View attachment 7542


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Bringing this thread back to life in the hopes I can illicit help from the goat brain trust. I had about 50 shots this weekend and only about 10 follows. The follows were weird. the sheeps would put their nose on the fly and follow to the boat. I tried increasing my strip to help entice an eat. Didn't work. I tried slowing down the strip to entice an eat. Didn't work. Tried stopping the fly mid retrieve to help entice a bite. I knew that wouldn't work but I was about all out of things to try. So, is there anything I can do to help get an eat when the fish are pushing my fly?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

WillW said:


> Nice, saw the new one on your IG. Labs are the best. Just put my female down that I've had for 11 years. I liked her more than most humans. Damn dogs


Bummer...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Guys.... I found a great little hook for stealthy sheephead flies. So I made an ordered wholesale for too many. They are size #5 if you can imagine what size that would be and stronger than the standard SS hook. They are black colored stainless steel from what I've been told by the supplier and needle sharp. They were meant for the UK market but looked like a great sheephead and bonefish hook, since they both shy away from silver colored hooks from what I've found. Yes black SS is the 1st I've seen (not SS, not black chrome, not black nickle). They are great and inexpensive at my cost. I ordered 100 with another order of something else. I only need about 30 and sold 10 already. I have 60 left and selling them in paks of 10 pieces, shipped for $2/ 10pak. Not trying to make money, just spreading out my expenses on them. Otherwise, it'd take me years to use them up.

PM me if interested.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Bringing this thread back to life in the hopes I can illicit help from the goat brain trust. I had about 50 shots this weekend and only about 10 follows. The follows were weird. the sheeps would put their nose on the fly and follow to the boat. I tried increasing my strip to help entice an eat. Didn't work. I tried slowing down the strip to entice an eat. Didn't work. Tried stopping the fly mid retrieve to help entice a bite. I knew that wouldn't work but I was about all out of things to try. So, is there anything I can do to help get an eat when the fish are pushing my fly?


Slow small strips with a small crab pattern. When they see the fly and start to follow stop stripping and let the fly sink to the bottom. Keep just enough tension on the line to keep ZERO slack. If the sheepie tails on the fly then an extremely small strip to see if you feel tension. Most of the time there won't be any because he didn't eat. But the only two sheepies I have caught on fly were done this way.

Here's a pic of the last one a few weeks ago in case you missed it.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Slow small strips with a small crab pattern. When they see the fly and start to follow stop stripping and let the fly sink to the bottom. Keep just enough tension on the line to keep ZERO slack. If the sheepie tails on the fly then an extremely small strip to see if you feel tension. Most of the time there won't be any because he didn't eat. But the only two sheepies I have caught on fly were done this way.
> 
> Here's a pic of the last one a few weeks ago in case you missed it.


 I'll give it a try but for the area im seeing fish it may only work on calmer days or with someone on the PP. Do i have any volunteers? haha. I did try to present the fly in that fashion but they all seemed to turn away or were generally uninterested in a stationary target. I say that bc the fish would follow on the way down and bolt mid decent or was deeper than i could see and i never felt tension. That plus a 10-15mph wind, having to use the TM and a bayou just wide enough to spin a skiff didnt help my odds. I even muddied up the fly and switched flies several times but never went with a crab. The follows i got were moving targets and they were interested enough to nose the fly but never committed. I'll try the crab and letting it sink and see what happens


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

If the water is clear try the green weenie (spread the hook a little) or bone fish flies of various sizes. Sometimes small sometimes larger. The timing of the cast has to be perfect. Across the path is better and move it as the convict tops the fly.


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## trucha del mar (Apr 1, 2016)

Sheepies are just weird. I searched around the interwebs trying to find some research on what they eat on a regular basis and stumbled upon a white paper that took stomach samples from sheepies in LA. Over half of the sampled stomach contents were plant matter. Another ~25% was mussels and clams. Crabs made up less than 5% of the sampled stomach contents. Despite that finding, I seem to have had the most luck fishing crab flies. But that could just be because I usually use crab flies for reds and so that's what I've got on when I see a goat and cast at it. I think the secret to catching sheepies on a regular basis is casting at every one you see...eventually, you are going to cast at an active eater. Here in Texas, they are everywhere during the late winter and you might have 100+ shots on a good day. With that said, the best day of sheepie fishing I've ever experienced was in May a few years back where we did not go 100 yards without poling up on another pod of tailing sheepies. As far as retrieves go, I've had them pick up flies lying dead on the bottom and some that I was stripping pretty quick, but I think the highest percentage shot is to keep it moving slowly with tiny little tics.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

trucha del mar said:


> Sheepies are just weird. I searched around the interwebs trying to find some research on what they eat on a regular basis and stumbled upon a white paper that took stomach samples from sheepies in LA. Over half of the sampled stomach contents were plant matter. Another ~25% was mussels and clams. Crabs made up less than 5% of the sampled stomach contents. Despite that finding, I seem to have had the most luck fishing crab flies. But that could just be because I usually use crab flies for reds and so that's what I've got on when I see a goat and cast at it. I think the secret to catching sheepies on a regular basis is casting at every one you see...eventually, you are going to cast at an active eater. Here in Texas, they are everywhere during the late winter and you might have 100+ shots on a good day. With that said, the best day of sheepie fishing I've ever experienced was in May a few years back where we did not go 100 yards without poling up on another pod of tailing sheepies. As far as retrieves go, I've had them pick up flies lying dead on the bottom and some that I was stripping pretty quick, but I think the highest percentage shot is to keep it moving slowly with tiny little tics.


Sounds like I need to tie on a crab! Whereabouts in TX are ya?



sjrobin said:


> If the water is clear try the green weenie (spread the hook a little) or bone fish flies of various sizes. Sometimes small sometimes larger. The timing of the cast has to be perfect. Across the path is better and move it as the convict tops the fly.


Im on Sabine and the water clarity isn't much better than tea. Sometimes we get gin clear water but we need about a week of perfect weather to get those conditions. Would you fish the weenie in tea stained water or are you throwing something different?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

After obsessing over these fish for a while I finally got pretty good at hooking them. Not sure the fly matters to be honest, you just have to keep throwing at them.

Fun fact, they are delicious. The yield is very low and they are difficult to clean, but they make the best ceviche out all the inshore species we have here in Louisiana.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

I just cleaned one sheepy two weeks ago that my buddy got to eat on fly. Stomach was filled will grass! I must have throw flies at near 30 sheepies and saw 100 this past Sunday. I got 3-4 follows. They would nose down to it and just stare. I would wait and wait and finally when I tried to nudge it ever so slightly they would just turn and dart off. It was sooooooo frustrating. BUT I will persevere! And you should too!!!

On a positive note, just because the sheep weren't eating doesn't mean the redfish weren't!


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

E-money said:


> On a positive note, just because the sheep weren't eating doesn't mean the redfish weren't!
> 
> View attachment 12456


When you're a serious sheepy fly fisherman, you'll have to learn to deal with the redfish by-catch.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

rakeel said:


> When you're a serious sheepy fly fisherman, you'll have to learn to deal with the redfish by-catch.


NOOOOO! Redfish will never be a by-catch for me!


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

E-money said:


> I just cleaned one sheepy two weeks ago that my buddy got to eat on fly. Stomach was filled will grass! I must have throw flies at near 30 sheepies and saw 100 this past Sunday. I got 3-4 follows. They would nose down to it and just stare. I would wait and wait and finally when I tried to nudge it ever so slightly they would just turn and dart off. It was sooooooo frustrating. BUT I will persevere! And you should too!!!
> 
> On a positive note, just because the sheep weren't eating doesn't mean the redfish weren't!
> 
> View attachment 12456


Nice fish. im not passing up a dumb redfish for a refusal from a sheep, I may be an idiot but I'm not stupid. If it swims, its gets a fly in its face.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I guess y'all ain't about dat #donkeyteef life.


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## trucha del mar (Apr 1, 2016)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Sounds like I need to tie on a crab! Whereabouts in TX are ya?


GGW - I fish E. Matagorda and POC almost exclusively. Olive green crabs (Toad or Merkin style)are my go to flies.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

trucha del mar said:


> Sheepies are just weird. I searched around the interwebs trying to find some research on what they eat on a regular basis and stumbled upon a white paper that took stomach samples from sheepies in LA. Over half of the sampled stomach contents were plant matter. Another ~25% was mussels and clams. Crabs made up less than 5% of the sampled stomach contents.


Just went back and read this. Did it say what time of year they sampled the fish? I'm fairly certain during certain times of the year sheepies will almost exclusively feed on plant matter and other times of the year they're more omnivorous with "meat" making up more of their diet.


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## trucha del mar (Apr 1, 2016)

rakeel said:


> Just went back and read this. Did it say what time of year they sampled the fish? I'm fairly certain during certain times of the year sheepies will almost exclusively feed on plant matter and other times of the year they're more omnivorous with "meat" making up more of their diet.


Rakeel - It probably did, but I can't find the actual paper anymore. I'm guessing it was summer/fall, given the relative abundance of grass at those times. I think the reason they may become a little easier to catch in late winter is because they are fueling up to head out to the Gulf to spawn and there is little vegetation around to feed them...they become a bit more opportunistic as a result.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

rakeel said:


> When you're a serious sheepy fly fisherman, you'll have to learn to deal with the redfish by-catch.


Wait.... I thought it was the other way around! Lol


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Yes their good to eat. When me and my grandboys caught them they were just legal. So we kept 8 and when we got back I cleaned them and only got little fillets so I cut them into 1-2" squares and sautéed them in Olive oil and garlic. Served them on a plate. I got one the rest went to ravenous boys after a day on the water


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Well the saga continues for me. Yesterday I threw at a half dozen tailing sheep and couldn't get one to commit. They definitely did not want this little crab!








But the day was not lost thanks to a hungry redfish yet again. Just after I tied on a new pattern.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Emoney

If you think that is a little crab you might rethink what you are throwing at sheepies. That's probably twice as big as what we usually throw at them.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> Emoney
> 
> If you think that is a little crab you might rethink what you are throwing at sheepies. That's probably twice as big as what we usually throw at them.


I know it is on the bigger side. I tied them for redfish. But I have good friend that got 3 sheepies to bite in the past month on another pattern I tie that is similar to this one and actually a little bigger. I guess I should tie some smaller and try then.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

jmrodandgun said:


> The fly isn't the issue, it's the presentation. They are spooky little bastards.


Ain't that the damn truth. The only sheepies I've ever caught were in LA and then it was by accident- the spooky buggers stole the fly from under the nose of redfish.

Here in Texas, I've quite literally cast to hundreds of sheepies and never gotten one to eat a fly. Even tailing, seemingly happy fish that are feeding. I cannot tell you how many times I've laid a fly in front of a tailing sheepshead only to witness them flee in abject terror from a 1" piece of feathers.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

This is the fly that my buddy and his wife throw that I tie. Although not originally intended for sheep, they have an extremely high bite percentage when they can get it to a sheep without spooking it. Odd, because they are larger than the ones I am throwing. Does color or feel mean much to them I wonder?


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

IMG_5353




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Well I finally saw a sheep caught this weekend. We had plenty of shots and lots of fish that pinned the fly but only one eat. After about 12 refusals my buddy hocked a big loogie on the fly and then expertly dropped it in front of a sheep and he ate it!


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

GullsGoneWild said:


> IMG_5353
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They don't call him Fish-O for nothing.


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## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

Not a bad wkend for sheep considering the dog turd clarity. We had a couple solid follows & I put a buddy on his first goat. Also saw the 2 guys above on the water.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

trucha del mar said:


> Sheepies are just weird. I searched around the interwebs trying to find some research on what they eat on a regular basis and stumbled upon a white paper that took stomach samples from sheepies in LA. Over half of the sampled stomach contents were plant matter. Another ~25% was mussels and clams. Crabs made up less than 5% of the sampled stomach contents. Despite that finding, I seem to have had the most luck fishing crab flies. But that could just be because I usually use crab flies for reds and so that's what I've got on when I see a goat and cast at it. I think the secret to catching sheepies on a regular basis is casting at every one you see...eventually, you are going to cast at an active eater. Here in Texas, they are everywhere during the late winter and you might have 100+ shots on a good day. With that said, the best day of sheepie fishing I've ever experienced was in May a few years back where we did not go 100 yards without poling up on another pod of tailing sheepies. As far as retrieves go, I've had them pick up flies lying dead on the bottom and some that I was stripping pretty quick, but I think the highest percentage shot is to keep it moving slowly with tiny little tics.


The green weenie looks like a piece of moss wrapped around a number 6 hook.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Sounds like I need to tie on a crab! Whereabouts in TX are ya?
> 
> 
> 
> Im on Sabine and the water clarity isn't much better than tea. Sometimes we get gin clear water but we need about a week of perfect weather to get those conditions. Would you fish the weenie in tea stained water or are you throwing something different?


Clear water for the weenie. January through March is best here when they are very hungry. My best day is seven the only half day or so I have set up for them, but like black drum we will take an occasional shot at a large sheep. A couple of years ago a juiced up cool water sheep went into the backing on an 8 wt. Very unusual though.


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## trucha del mar (Apr 1, 2016)

E-money said:


> This is the fly that my buddy and his wife throw that I tie. Although not originally intended for sheep, they have an extremely high bite percentage when they can get it to a sheep without spooking it. Odd, because they are larger than the ones I am throwing. Does color or feel mean much to them I wonder?
> View attachment 12670


E-Money - That is very similar to my go-to fly, seen here. Mostly olive, but with some blue and orange mixed in.










I agree with jmrodandgun - the presentation is much more important that the actual fly...but having confidence in the fly doesn't hurt.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

E-money said:


> This is the fly that my buddy and his wife throw that I tie. Although not originally intended for sheep, they have an extremely high bite percentage when they can get it to a sheep without spooking it. Odd, because they are larger than the ones I am throwing. Does color or feel mean much to them I wonder?
> View attachment 12670


While I agree with others that the presentation is the key I still prefer, when I am targeting sheepies to throw a smalll fly. For one thing that also helps with the presentation. But those bushy crab patterns might land plenty soft. Bottom line is throw a fly at the bastard. Don't expect it to do anything but swim off. Repeat ad naseum. Once if a while a dumb one comes along....lol


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Well i cleaned my TM and found a nice wad of marsh grass. Decided to try to tie a few green weenie variations. I have no idea if sheeps graze this grass but its worth a shot. Grass came from the sheep farm, AKA my new honey hole.

this one has got a little EP craft fur brush




  








IMG_5366




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GullsGoneWild


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Jul 11, 2017











  








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Jul 11, 2017


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Nice fly!!


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Nice fly!!


Thanks! hopefully the fish agree


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

This fish was caught on a copper spoon fly of all things! LOL



This past spring, I was fishing with a spinning rod with a 3" new penny swim tail DOA soft plastic on a 3/8oz jig head, fishing a deep hole near some mangroves for snook and reds and a goat the same size as the one in this pic ate it. So go figure!


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

I have refined my crab flies to look a little more crabby but still incorporating the colors that sheep tend to react to where I fish. I stared at this fly on the vise for 10 minutes last night trying to decide whether or not to put a weed guard. Opinions?


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## cougmantx (May 25, 2016)

Don't know that I would with it riding the way it will in the water. Sometimes weed guards are just something else to catch you leader on. Nice tie by the way.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

cougmantx said:


> Don't know that I would with it riding the way it will in the water. Sometimes weed guards are just something else to catch you leader on. Nice tie by the way.


This time of year I fish in pretty heavy grass. It definitely helps on my other flies. BUT, I am not sure how it would affect the hook up on sheep. Maybe I'll tie one with and one without and see if the grass is a big issue.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

When I first moved down to fish the marsh I had a quite a few flies tied with week guards. Was fishing with a guide to get the lay of they land and the FIRST thing he did was to cut off my weed guards.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Yet another update on my sheepy adventures....

This past Saturday I threw at another dozen or more sheeps. This time I am pretty sure I got an eat! It was only 10-15 feet in front of the skiff and the water was clean enough for me to see. I threw to the fish and it swam up to the fly. Small strip and it appeared as though the sheepy picked it up so I gave it a SMALL strip to try to feel tension and I watched as the fly popped out. The fish swam back up and grabbed it again. Once again, SMALL strip to get tight and it popped out again. The third time the fish swam up and then turned away. NOOOOO!!!!!!

Fast forward a half hour..... The water was much dirtier and I could barely see the stripes, but I made a perfect placed backcast to a sheep cruising parrallel to the boat in the opposite direction. A couple small strips to put the fly in front and let it drop once the fish reacted. The fish dove down into the murky abyss and I got tight! I pulled the fish up to the surface and it was a little black drum! So once again, unsuccessful. I will try again this weekend.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I'm loving the determination E-money. I need to get out after some sheepies soon.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

rakeel said:


> I'm loving the determination E-money. I need to get out after some sheepies soon.


It is maddening man. But every rejection makes me want it more! Luckily the problem is not finding them. I've got a buddy committed to poling me all day on Friday so I'll try to get some pictures as we pole up. Hopefully I'll have some goats in the boat for pics as well!!!


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Ok, so...... looks like I'll be off Friday and plan to run out to some areas with frequent sheepy sightings. From what I have seen, the sheep tend to tail more in the mornings, so I plan to hit my shallow water areas (<1 ft) first thing and then move to my deeper areas (1-3ft but cleaner) towards mid day. I prefer to throw at tails, but the sun should be out and the wind fairly calm. The deeper areas are holding more convicts from what I can tell, especially once the water heats up. These are the two flies that I will be starting with. The crab is a little heavier and I'll be throwing it on my 8 wt with 20lb fluoro tippet. The bugger that I tied last night will be on my 7 weight with 16 lb. I've got a buddy dedicated to pole me all morning until I can get one on. He has yet to get a red on fly so if we get into the pumpkins we will probably change off. I'd like for him to check that box but I REALLY want to be greedy and get a sheep on the deck. Updates to come post trip!


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I'd throw that buggy looking one first thing in the morning at those shallow fish.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

rakeel said:


> I'd throw that buggy looking one first thing in the morning at those shallow fish.


Get out of my head!

That was the plan unless I see a bunch of little crabs scurrying around in the ponds. I just hope I can get a nibble.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Update time! Goose egg. I hit several locations both on Friday and Sunday looking for the sheep and came up short. Only saw 1 on Friday and maybe 4 (one group of 3) on Sunday. I wasn't on the bow and didn't have an opportunity to make any casts when they were spotted. Bummerrrrrrrr....but once again, the redfish didn't mind cooperating to save the weekend. I'll try again on Saturday.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Looked like a tussle with that bright orange fish. No music next time.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> Looked like a tussle with that bright orange fish. No music next time.


Not a fan of the Crue? shame


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Natural sounds of nature will work....or expletives might add a little ambiance to the film.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> Natural sounds of nature will work....or expletives might add a little ambiance to the film.


HAHAH yeaaaa..... unfortunately this is a GoPro 3 in a case so there is no natural noise. The case blocks it all out. Need to get a 5 I guess.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm a fan of the Crue, better than that Technoy stuff most fly fishing videos have in it. sounds like they are logging onto dial up.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

E-money said:


> Update time! Goose egg. I hit several locations both on Friday and Sunday looking for the sheep and came up short. Only saw 1 on Friday and maybe 4 (one group of 3) on Sunday. I wasn't on the bow and didn't have an opportunity to make any casts when they were spotted. Bummerrrrrrrr....but once again, the redfish didn't mind cooperating to save the weekend. I'll try again on Saturday.


Solid sheepy by-catch there .

Last night I was thinking about an upcoming goat trip and was trying to come up with some different strategies. I got to reminiscing about some extra spooky drum I used to chase in turbo shallow water in South TX. I used to cast all sorts of fly patterns at them in all sorts of sizes and colors with nothing but refusals after some half hearted follows, similar to what I've been experiencing with sheepies. One day, I was pretty much at my wits end and dug up an old wooly booger-esk pattern that I had tied when I was a kid that half way looked like a shrimp and the first fish I casted at, bam, fish on. Caught 2 more right after that before losing the fly on the 4th fish. Tied another fly that was pretty much the same pattern and it was back to refusals. What was the difference in the flies you ask? Silver hook v. black hook. Went home, tied up some different patterns on black hooks and from that day going forward, caught those drum with a lot more consistency, still got some refusals but they actually ate.

Most people will probably argue that it doesn't matter, and I will agree that in most situations it doesn't matter, but for that particular flat and those particular drum, that was the difference maker. Anyways, the few shipshead eats I have gotten have been on SL45 hooks which are black. Could be a coincidence and Idk if it'll be the key, but it may give me an advantage and I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm going to try and fish this weekend, but it's showing rain on the Tx coast pretty much all weekend. If I can go I'll make sure to report back with any findings.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

rakeel said:


> Solid sheepy by-catch there .
> 
> Last night I was thinking about an upcoming goat trip and was trying to come up with some different strategies. I got to reminiscing about some extra spooky drum I used to chase in turbo shallow water in South TX. I used to cast all sorts of fly patterns at them in all sorts of sizes and colors with nothing but refusals after some half hearted follows, similar to what I've been experiencing with sheepies. One day, I was pretty much at my wits end and dug up an old wooly booger-esk pattern that I had tied when I was a kid that half way looked like a shrimp and the first fish I casted at, bam, fish on. Caught 2 more right after that before losing the fly on the 4th fish. Tied another fly that was pretty much the same pattern and it was back to refusals. What was the difference in the flies you ask? Silver hook v. black hook. Went home, tied up some different patterns on black hooks and from that day going forward, caught those drum with a lot more consistency, still got some refusals but they actually ate.
> 
> Most people will probably argue that it doesn't matter, and I will agree that in most situations it doesn't matter, but for that particular flat and those particular drum, that was the difference maker. Anyways, the few shipshead eats I have gotten have been on SL45 hooks which are black. Could be a coincidence and Idk if it'll be the key, but it may give me an advantage and I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm going to try and fish this weekend, but it's showing rain on the Tx coast pretty much all weekend. If I can go I'll make sure to report back with any findings.


I have considered the color of the hook. And I have tied several shrimp flies on the SL45s. The most recent ones were all silver hooks. Perhaps I'll get some more hooks and tie a few of the same patterns to test this out as well. Thanks.


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## Austin Bustamante (May 11, 2015)

Anyone want to go chase some goats this week? Just need a partner, we can take my boat it even has some goat stink on it.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Dont you dare take them to our spots......lol


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## Austin Bustamante (May 11, 2015)

Hahaha I want to go play in the grass at delacroix! Got some info on a new area


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## redjim (Oct 16, 2012)

Dang e-money, yea no striped fish there. But, still looks like a great day!!!


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

redjim said:


> Dang e-money, yea no striped fish there. But, still looks like a great day!!!


Yes it was still a lot of fun! Over the course of the two days we definitely saw 100+ reds and the vast majority were in the upper slot range with many appearing to be slightly over. But that's why I love Louisiana. Even in the summer it is more common than not to see that many fish.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Try fishing an area that doesn't experience so much bow fishing pressure, also an area without so much grass. It's super hard to get them to eat in grassy ponds. You almost have to get the fly in their path and hope they pick it up without noticing it. 

There are no secret flies to get them to eat, you just have to throw at every one you see and not make any mistakes. Too close and they spook, too far away and they change direction, too light on the strips they just mouth the fly, too heavy on the strips and they spook. It's called the goldilocks method. 

When I first started trying to hook them it took probably 100 or more shots before I was able to get them to eat with any regularity. We went 2 for 8 on Sunday with the sheeps which is pretty good, maybe even above average. I think I could have done better but we were in a good drainage full of 15-20 lb redfish so the sheeps took a backseat.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Very good percentage on the sheep. Did the reds eat?


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

abgautier said:


> Anyone want to go chase some goats this week? Just need a partner, we can take my boat it even has some goat stink on it.


That is an xl sheep. Good job putting Steve on that fish.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Emoney and Jmrod I will trailer up to La for over slot reds right now.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

sjrobin said:


> Very good percentage on the sheep. Did the reds eat?


A few cooperated. It's kind of an awkward time of year for the redfish. Water temps were unusually high making the ponds feel like bath water. As soon as it starts cooling off a little bit the fish will get back to their usual happy selves.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> Emoney and Jmrod I will trailer up to La for over slot reds right now.


Most of what I am getting into right now is upper slot. I have not been gunning for bigger fish yet. As jm said, it's kind of a weird time for them. Give it a couple of months.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

oooooowwwweeee this thread is going to get dull to a lot of people. I have been refining a pattern to try to get sheep to commit a little more. As a reminder, the first photo is the fly that my fishing partner and his wife have been testing for me and love. In the last couple of months, she has caught one and lost one, and he has lost one on this fly. That was when these were tied in size 2 with mustad 34007 hooks. They had another hard follow up to the boat this past weekend, unfortunately she didn't see the fish and pulled it away from it. So, I have refined the pattern a little to make it look a little more crabby while trying to maintain the color pattern of the fly. We have noticed that when I tied sparkle in the sheep tend to be a little more hesitant or ignore the fly altogether so the flash is out. The bottom picture is the new refined pattern. These flies are about an inch long, maybe 1.25". These are tied on a size 4 Gammy SL45. Will be tossing them this weekend.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Dude, I got ta git me one of those Sheepy shirts! Where'd ya get it?


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Dude, I got ta git me one of those Sheepy shirts! Where'd ya get it?


We have a fly fishing for sheepshead tournament here every year called The Sheepy. Those are the tournament shirts. Tournament is open to anyone from anywhere! Come fish it!


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

The goats own you


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I was all set to fish the Sheepy this past spring but our plans got interrupted. Got enough places to chase them now that if the weekend aligns with my buddy's time off we might have to give it a go. Anybody that wants to be competitive in that thing better bring their A+ game. I think the last several years the winning team has boated three nice sheeps.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> I was all set to fish the Sheepy this past spring but our plans got interrupted. Got enough places to chase them now that if the weekend aligns with my buddy's time off we might have to give it a go. Anybody that wants to be competitive in that thing better bring their A+ game. I think the last several years the winning team has boated three nice sheeps.


Spike and Tristan won this past year and I think you are correct. Second place had a couple as well.


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