# Another Battery Question



## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

A while back, I posted about replacement of a lithium house/starting battery. I ended up with an Odyssey PC925. Since October, it has performed well, with no issues. On Sunday morning, I left for a two day camping/fishing trip to the backcountry of the Everglades National Park. On the second day, I was unable to start the engine. I tried to jump start it with a micro start, anti-gravity pack. I tried with it connected to the battery terminals and then directly to the starter of the Yamaha F70. No luck. Ended up contacting a friend via Garmin InReach and 5+hours later we were back at the dock. So, I'm wondering now if this battery is not sufficient to start the motor and run the Simrad NSS evo3 all day (or multiple days). I plugged it in to the PowerMania charger and it seemed to take an inordinate amount of time to charge, though I was able to start the motor to flush it. I like the weight, but wonder if the CA and CCA, and reserve capacity minutes are sufficient for my needs. Thoughts?


----------



## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

I have the odyssey PC1200 and it seems to be just enough to run everything. Sometimes I'll see voltage drops when I have the Simrad on full brightness and it seems to make the engine not want to start. I personally wouldn't go any smaller than the PC1200 if running a gps, lights and few other accessories just for the peace of mind to get home. Also the NOCO lithium jump box can be a life saver. I've gotten a few jumps on my car battery with it before having to recharge it.


----------



## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

I would also check the connections at your posts on the ceiling of the starboard hatch from the engine and the fuse box. I definitely get some water/humidity in there and the possibility of corrosion on those posts may be a factor.


----------



## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

DBStoots said:


> ....I like the weight, but wonder if the CA and CCA, and reserve capacity minutes are sufficient for my needs. Thoughts?


Not enough reserve capacity was your problem.

Bring jumper cables and an extra battery next time. A fully charged motorcycle battery will start that motor.


----------



## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

Sorry to hear DB. I’ve run my 925 trouble free for a while now. Makes me wonder if mine is next? 

Have you thought about maybe upgrading to a 1200 and running it upfront with the TM batteries? I’ve always heated that slight starboard list the Waterman has. Moving that battery kills two birds. It’s been on my to do list for a while.


----------



## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

Agreed with @manny2376, moving the batteries up front was one of the better decisions for my side console setup.


----------



## Chrisbrocci (9 mo ago)

ElLobo said:


> Agreed with @manny2376, moving the batteries up front was one of the better decisions for my side console setup.
> 
> View attachment 226522


not to de rail the post, but how have those relions been treating you?


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Get a jump starter from Harbor Freight less than $100. I keep one on my boat to charge cell phones. My Walmart 1,000 crank just works. I’ve never charged it. I just started my engine the other day and it started right up after sitting since August


----------



## Scrob (Aug 26, 2015)

Curious if anyone has ever wrapped a length of rope around the fly wheel and manually pull started in this type of situation?


----------



## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

Chrisbrocci said:


> not to de rail the post, but how have those relions been treating you?


They’ve been great! Haven’t been able to fully kill them yet even with multi day use between charges


----------



## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

As others have said, you need the bigger pc1200. Plus keep a pull cord and NOCO boost on the skiff at all times.


----------



## Bonesonthebrain (Jan 2, 2020)

Any idea why the micro start did not work? Did you allow the micro start to try to charge the house battery for a little while before trying to start?


----------



## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Someone please double check me but I thought the F70 calls for about 380 CCA. The 925 battery is only 330 CCA.

edit: Also @DBStoots. When running are you able to see the voltage? Should be over 13+ volts. I can’t remember on your GPS seeing voltage when we fished. If you are seeing 12v then possible a charging issue? Possible check terminals and connections?


----------



## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

The Odessey 925 does not meet spec for the F70, it will eventually loose and could damage your stator charging system. It’s a matter of time if you are running one. Here is a database for the outboard, it looks like a minimum AGM battery for for the F70 is the 8A24M.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Scrob said:


> Curious if anyone has ever wrapped a length of rope around the fly wheel and manually pull started in this type of situation?


Yes, I have pull started both a Yamaha 70 2 stroke and F70 that did not have enough juice to key start. This was before the NOCO jump packs were available.


----------



## KYgheenoe (3 mo ago)

welcome to the wonderful world of boat electronics. It never ends, and it always happens at the best times. Honestly, best route is to follow every link in the chain. Connections, wiring, terminals, fuses, amps. I always carry a multimeter, and it has saved me many a headache and blindly searching for a problem.


----------



## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

ElLobo said:


> Agreed with @manny2376, moving the batteries up front was one of the better decisions for my side console setup.
> 
> View attachment 226522


@manny2376 and @ElLobo I think you are both right--I'm concerned about too much weight on the starboard side of the skiff, especially when running solo. Just a PIA to move the starting/house battery to the bow compartment (or an expensive proposition to have someone do it). Did y'all do the work yourself?


----------



## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Loogie said:


> The Odessey 925 does not meet spec for the F70, it will eventually loose and could damage your stator charging system. It’s a matter of time if you are running one. Here is a database for the outboard, it looks like a minimum AGM battery for for the F70 is the 8A24M.


@Loogie is correct, and I wish I had done a little more research before buying the Odyssey 925. I'm gonna replace it with a series 24 battery. Hate to add the extra weight, but don't see a better option.


----------



## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

iMacattack said:


> Someone please double check me but I thought the F70 calls for about 380 CCA. The 925 battery is only 330 CCA.
> 
> edit: Also @DBStoots. When running are you able to see the voltage? Should be over 13+ volts. I can’t remember on your GPS seeing voltage when we fished. If you are seeing 12v then possible a charging issue? Possible check terminals and connections?


@iMacattack Yes, the 925 has proven inadequate. Voltage seemed to drop during the second day of fishing, but would pick back up as I made long runs--just never up over 13 volts.


----------



## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Bonesonthebrain said:


> Any idea why the micro start did not work? Did you allow the micro start to try to charge the house battery for a little while before trying to start?


@Bonesonthebrain Not sure why my micro start did not work--I guess the battery was too far depleted.


----------



## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Water Bound said:


> As others have said, you need the bigger pc1200. Plus keep a pull cord and NOCO boost on the skiff at all times.


@Water Bound Yes, I've ordered a series 24 battery. I do keep a pull cord (tried that too) and a micro jumper (anti-gravity battery starter) on board.


----------



## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

DBStoots said:


> @manny2376 and @ElLobo I think you are both right--I'm concerned about too much weight on the starboard side of the skiff, especially when running solo. Just a PIA to move the starting/house battery to the bow compartment (or an expensive proposition to have someone do it). Did y'all do the work yourself?


Yeah I did the work myself. It wasn’t too bad of an afternoon job to do. I also really like how much it freed up the starboard hatch.


----------



## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Scrob said:


> Curious if anyone has ever wrapped a length of rope around the fly wheel and manually pull started in this type of situation?


Curious if the newer engines can be pull started. I pull started some 2 smokes in the past but never tried on a newer 4 stroke. Wasn't even sure it was possible but we used to always carry a pull cord with a wooden dowel rigged in a "T" for that purpose and worked well and got me out of a pinch a couple times! One memorable moment is we beached the skiff because someone was "seasick" and we took a ton of water over the stern essentially killing our batteries. Pull started, pulled the plugs and was able to drain the boat pretty good. It was a Carolina skiff couldn't do that with my current boat LOL!


----------



## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

My boat came new with a pc1200. Had problems with it almost immediately with an f60 and no electronics or electrical issues. After several attempts to save it with recommendations from odyssey, I ended up with an optima blue top that was trouble free for 10 years.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

rovster said:


> Curious if the newer engines can be pull started. I pull started some 2 smokes in the past but never tried on a newer 4 stroke. Wasn't even sure it was possible but we used to always carry a pull cord with a wooden dowel rigged in a "T" for that purpose and worked well and got me out of a pinch a couple times! One memorable moment is we beached the skiff because someone was "seasick" and we took a ton of water over the stern essentially killing our batteries. Pull started, pulled the plugs and was able to drain the boat pretty good. It was a Carolina skiff couldn't do that with my current boat LOL!


Yes an F70 can be pull started if the battery dies. Had to in my buddy’s skiff 40 miles from nowhere with no cell service because his fuel line got pinched and the battery died from cranking attempts before we found the pinch point. He didn’t believe me either until I popped the cowling and there was a pull rope in it. Primed the bulb, turned the key on and two rips she was running and ran straight to the ramp charging the battery on the way.


----------



## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

ElLobo said:


> Yeah I did the work myself. It wasn’t too bad of an afternoon job to do. I also really like how much it freed up the starboard hatch.


If you don’t mind, what gauge wire did go with? I think I’m gonna pull the trigger on this mod for my Waterman sooner rather than later.


----------



## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

A dead battery in the glades backcountry is always on my mind. I keep a NOCO onboard as well as the Tohatsu-supplied “rope pull cord.” I’ve never tried to pull start it….but may try….just to make sure it works.

David…I’m anxious to hear your outcome….was it just a weak battery, corroded connection, etc?


----------



## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

georgiadrifter said:


> A dead battery in the glades backcountry is always on my mind. I keep a NOCO onboard as well as the Tohatsu-supplied “rope pull cord.” I’ve never tried to pull start it….but may try….just to make sure it works.
> 
> David…I’m anxious to hear your outcome….was it just a weak battery, corroded connection, etc?


I think the battery is simply inadequate for the F70--the CA and CCA, and reserve capacity minutes are insufficient for this motor.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I rigged a Chittum LM1 with Tohatsu 50 and a PC1200 for cranking. No issues in 7-8 months and he fishes 3-4 days a week.


----------



## Feather Thrower (Dec 4, 2015)

Interesting timing on this thread. Makes me feel like I didn't just waist a bunch of time and $ swapping out small pwc battery for a group 34 agm. The little one was ok, but if running even small accessories like gps and pump it would get dicey. More weight, but now meet f70 specs and have more peace of mind. Although I carry a lithium jump start, I don't want to rely on it or a rope start.


----------



## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

manny2376 said:


> If you don’t mind, what gauge wire did go with? I think I’m gonna pull the trigger on this mod for my Waterman sooner rather than later.


I used 4 AWG. If using a 12v trolling motor you can set it up with a 3 position switch and have a way to charge all the batteries off the alternator or use the TM batteries to start the engine in case the house/starting is dead.


----------



## ebr (Sep 6, 2019)

DBStoots said:


> Not sure why my micro start did not work--I guess the battery was too far depleted


These lithium batteries go to "sleep" once they get down to a critical level. Waking them back up may depend on the brand/BMS but, with my ionics, you have to hook them up to a charger or other battery with full charge to wake them back up. Maybe the micro start just wouldn't do that.

I'm running all lithium on my bay boat but still have lead acid for cranking on the skiff as I didn't think these smaller engines did well with a lithium...


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I rigged a Chittum LM1 with Tohatsu 50 and a PC1200 for cranking. No issues in 7-8 months and he fishes 3-4 days a week.


I also run a PC 1200. The Noco GB50 will not start my skiff if it's dead though. I had to get a GB70.


----------



## mt hwy (Mar 18, 2021)

I ran a PC1200 as a house/starter for my Etec 115, it didn't cut it, especially once I upgraded my chart plotter to an HDS Live 9 running FMT - draws an amp or 1 1/2 amps, and then other current draws while not running. Battery died at a very bad time, similar to what happened to you. Forget the PC925, at some point size does matter for a lead based AGM - that 24 lb lead battery, no way. PC1200 is 38lbs, but still not enough amp hours to be safe - at least for my application. I would go to the PC1500 for the amp hour rating, if you can find one, its 50 lbs and a bigger box yet. I couldn't find one so went Optima Blue Top D34M AGM, 48lbs, regular group 24 size I believe. Have not tested it enough, yet. And online there's talk of quality concerns about Optima production shifting to Mexico - I don't know. I went AGM because I'm not supposed to use a lithium starter for my motor. Two PC1200's work fine for my 24 volt TM, though.

Pull cord is standard tool kit equipment aboard my rig with Evinrude, 2 cylinder, 48 special two-stroke


----------



## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

K3anderson said:


> I also run a PC 1200. The Noco GB50 will not start my skiff if it's dead though. I had to get a GB70.


Please elaborate on needing a GB70. My GB40 says it will start my 5.7l truck...

I did a bit of digging on the interweb for pull starting a 4 stroke outboard. Makes sense that you can do it....lots of 4 stroke equipment other than outboards getting pull started. What I found makes some sense: A longer, slightly slower pull works best with a 4 stroke. Versus a sharper, hard pull for a 2 stroke. More engine revolutions required for the 4 stroke to make it through the whole power cycle. I think this makes sense. Knowing how to open the bypass on the trim/tilt to get your engine down is helpful too, in an emergency. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can pull my F40 if I really need to. Mark


----------



## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

This is interesting. My little GB20 has started my 90SHO multiple times (as well as 2 Toyota V8's). I wonder what caused your issue, rigging differences maybe?



K3anderson said:


> I also run a PC 1200. The Noco GB50 will not start my skiff if it's dead though. I had to get a GB70.





mwolaver said:


> Please elaborate on needing a GB70. My GB40 says it will start my 5.7l truck...


----------



## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

I have a GB 40 and you guys are making me nervous. Haven’t had to use it yet hope it’ll crank my 115 if needed thought it would be fine! Only used once on my wife’s SUV.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Water Bound said:


> This is interesting. My little GB20 has started my 90SHO multiple times (as well as 2 Toyota V8's). I wonder what caused your issue, rigging differences maybe?


It won’t start mine and it also won’t start my 6.2 Raptor. It will start wife’s X3


----------



## max.w.may (10 mo ago)

K3anderson said:


> It won’t start mine and it also won’t start my 6.2 Raptor. It will start wife’s X3


I had a new 200 Suzuki in 1985 that had just been rigged (without tightening the nut on the negative terminal) . We were 20 miles west of key west with a 20 knot east wind. I tried to start it to run in and 0 charge. Thought this will be fun, removed the cowling to pull start it and got one Of the better surprises in life. Suzuki had engineered the same compression release button you have on your chainsaw. It was like pull starting a 6 h p .I don’t know if they still do this as I’ve been running mercurys since but due to their reluctance to honor warranties I’m about to go back. Anybody know if they still incorporate this feature?


----------



## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

K3anderson said:


> I also run a PC 1200. The Noco GB50 will not start my skiff if it's dead though. I had to get a GB70.


 Same here.


----------



## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Yes an F70 can be pull started if the battery dies. Had to in my buddy’s skiff 40 miles from nowhere with no cell service because his fuel line got pinched and the battery died from cranking attempts before we found the pinch point. He didn’t believe me either until I popped the cowling and there was a pull rope in it. Primed the bulb, turned the key on and two rips she was running and ran straight to the ramp charging the battery on the way.


In our teens we all would have resumed fishing.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mark H said:


> In our teens we all would have resumed fishing.


We had already been fishing all day. Barely made it back to the ramp at dark.


----------



## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Well even as a teen I probably would have been that smart.


----------

