# Old aluminum micros



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thinking about shifting gears again. I was going to build a small 13-14' poling skiff just for skinny water and river camping to go along with the bigger boat I'll be doing soon, but with the direction I was going to go it seems I might be better off storing it outside. If anyone recalls from my past posts I don't like storing boats outside, so if I am going to I would rather it be an aluminum tub.

I'm starting to really dig the old school aluminum skiffs. I see many 12-14' v hulls that look like they are prime for some cool touches. 

I have been on them as a younger guy, but most of our boats were typical flat Jons, and we only used them in the eastern glades and canals which was always wind protected. 

So being rounded chines, and v nosed, how efficient are they? Are they quiet? Overly tippy? Any issues for 2 guys and some camping gear in protected waters? Can they be poled half way decently?

Here's some pics of what I'm looking at(Brett I know you will dig on this)


----------



## erussell (Mar 31, 2011)

Firecat,

My dad and I restored this 1964 Orlando Clipper 14ft v-hull skiff that my grandfather gave me for college graduation. You can disregard the questions I asked in the thread on my search for the next boat, but here is the post with a few restoration pics. Love the boat and still have it in addition to my Hewes Bonefisher.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1346170278/0#0


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Nothing wrong with a "tinny".
Inexpensive, tough, low maintenance, lightweight, easy to repair.
I've had a few. Had a Sears Gamefisher 12' with a 7.5 Johnson
that was fished from Key Biscayne to Chokoloskee. Had a roof rack
on my pickup topper so no trailer needed. Night fishing for snook,
flats for bones and reds, offshore a few times for mahi.
If/when I destroy the Slipper, my next hull will probably be
a Lowes 14 Utility vee. 20 inch transom rated for 25 hp.

Yes, they are loud hulls due to the thin rigid metal surface.
Like banging on a 55 gallon drum, reverberates pretty good.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hotrodz that tinny is beautiful! you should be proud! I will do some mods to mine, but not quite as much as you have.

Brett, any idea how much a 12' would weigh? I'm just thinking a small motor, maybe a 6-10hp would be nice. Not looking for speed, just something to scoot along, not even thinking about a trolling motor this time, just a small push pole.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

My Gamefisher (manufactured by Sea Nymph) weighed about 125 lbs.
7.5 hp would plane it with 2 big guys in it. Wet hull, sometimes had to
run with the drain plug out due to the spray coming aboard.

Similar hull:  http://www.loweboats.com/2014/utility-boats/A1257/

I like the 14 : http://www.loweboats.com/2014/utility-boats/V1467T/

To repair dents/dings/punctures: http://www.alumiweld.com/


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I wonder if the rounded chines of the older ones would make it more or less wet?

As far as repairs go, I'm considering buying an oxy/ace gas welding setup to play around with for a bit.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

oxy/acetylene is a no-no for aluminum.
Aluminum welding is done in an O2 free environment.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/guide-aluminum-welding-detail.aspx

Aluminum brazing is the way to go for home repairs.
No inert gas tank needed as used for aluminum welding (Heli-arc)

OOOP's, oxy/acetylene is used for aluminum brazing, along with a specific flux.
Requires a good touch as the temp aluminum melts at is 1200 degrees.
Too hot and the aluminum drops away from the brazing joint leaving a big hole.

You don't actually melt the aluminum to be repaired, as is done with iron/steel
Flame is applied to raise the temp of the aluminum, but not to melting,
and the filler/brazing rod is applied to the heated metal and with it's lower melting point
flows to fill the gap and bond to the heated aluminum.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Yep, something like that, lol. I was considering buying a TIG set up, but that's a big expense for something that will see little use in the short term.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I use a basic propane torch to do my aluminum repairs.
Cheap and effective with the alumiweld rods. Flex cracks,
leaky rivets don't take but a few minutes to repair.
Little chance of me burning a hole through the aluminum.


----------



## Andrewp (Jul 23, 2010)

I seriously thought about modding an aluminum skiff.  Here is a great resource:  http://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=21&sid=f24b828e2079631232dbde43968a0b61

mostly mods for freshwater, some for salt.  But probably many of the same issues you might run into ....


AP


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Brett, that's an option, but with a oxy/ace torch I can do some minor fabrication, or major. I've heard mixed reviews on the alumiweld sticks, I'm sure they are good for a puncture, but would you use them for a joint?

AP, thanks, lots of cool stuff to look at there.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Alumiweld, HTS-2000, Dura-Fix, Hobart are all aluminum brazing rods.
Yes you are filling a hole or bonding a seam, but I don't consider it welding.
I'm not melting the metal to be repaired, only the filler rod, that's brazing.
Heli-Arc, mig, tig melt the adjoining aluminum along with the filler rod, a weld.
Requires much more knowledge and skill along with more expensive equipment.
Both items I lack. :-[ ;D

I've never tried to create a structural repair in aluminum, only fix leaks or small cracks.
For that, the inexpensive repair rods get the job done.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I was going to see about making some seat frames, maybe a small platform. I'm ok with brazing strength, I know from my bikes that brazing can be plenty strong, but I wonder if it is brittle. 

I might pic some up to play with, and maybe one of those oxy/map kits. Seems like a nifty option for a small investment.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-OX2550KC-Oxy-Map-Pro-Torch-Kit-331673/203391033


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

man, that clipper came out great! Love those boats.



> Firecat,
> 
> My dad and I restored this 1964 Orlando Clipper 14ft v-hull skiff that my grandfather gave me for college graduation. You can disregard the questions I asked in the thread on my search for the next boat, but here is the post with a few restoration pics. Love the boat and still have it in addition to my Hewes Bonefisher.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1346170278/0#0


----------



## Brad_M (Mar 6, 2014)

You can do some pretty serious work with oxy/map, it might take a little longer is all. I've brazed tons and tons of stuff with oxy/map, up to 1/4" plate steel (not together, but trinkets and stuff on top). I've also done some minor trailer repair with oxy/map too, sometimes you just have to use what's available to you in a jam. It gets really hot really fast for thin aluminum though, as Brett mentioned above, you'll melt aluminum away in chunks like melting a plastic straw with a lighter if you're not careful. 

About the 1/4" plate and brazing...I have made little docks and cottages etc. out of steel and cut up welding electrodes and then position them on a a piece of 1/4" plate and burn it all together. I use the 1/4" for the base....Something I've done in the past similar to what you would see in any tourist shop USA. Anyhow...

Firecat, I have that same little set up you posted a link to. Keep in mind you'll go through O2 like a crackhead goes through money. It's great for quick jobs, O2 is running about 10 bucks a bottle for that size.


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

My 1st boat was a 1967 14 ft StarCraft with a 50hp Merc 4 cyl. Still in my back yard. Boat does not have a round chine and it goes pretty shallow and has a great ride. I would find one w/o the rounded chine.


----------



## srttim (Feb 26, 2011)

I ran a 12'er with a new suzuki 9.9 on it. It was too much motor for that boat. It ran 22 mph and rattled all the rivets loose. Even dented in the hull at the aft section of the v where it enter the water on plane. I think mine was ment to be a row boat so the hull was not very strong. The round chine made it very tippy.


----------



## jeross (Jun 6, 2009)

My utility v-hull is a 1986 BlueFin 14' 10" with a 64" beam (54" at waterline) so it has decent stability. My best guess is the hull weighs about 225 pounds. Power is a 2009 20hp Merc 4-stroke short shaft.










The round profile of much of the hull means that it would be a bit noisy with hull slap while poling into the wind. Rubber mats inside deaden much of the other sounds.










With a couple of fatasses and gear I'd guess draft is 8 inches


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I like the rod holders on the supports, good idea.


----------



## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

My experience is from a 60's era 14' Starcraft. It was a riveted deep vee with round chines. It probably had a 20" transom, but everything seemed bigger when I was a kid. While the motor was 15 hp and should have been an okay, if not great, match, it was a absolute dog. I am fairly confident that we had a short shaft motor on it. Boats from the Midwest were often terribly underpowered back then so I can see the original owner just throwing whatever was available on to it and my dad just keeping it that way because we were broke.

I remember my dad cussing the stability. I suspect the stability was terribly impacted by our manner of use. My dad built a ply and 2x4 front deck level with the top of the bow sheer and we routinely fished two adults and two kids. A high center of gravity, a heavy load and two galloping kids can make this type of hull feel like you are trying to stand up on a beach ball, but it never dipped water. I suspect it would be a very nice hull for 1-2 calm people. I probably wouldn't put a poling platform on it though. It was also loud, but nothing is quiet with two kids in it.

It was little, over loaded, leaky and under powered, but it was very seaworthy. We never took water over the bow or transom despite frequently getting caught in short interval lake chop and ship wakes. We never went fast enough to worry about spray coming in.

A tree fell on it during an ice storm before my dad got it (probably the reason he could afford it) and the hull buckled and popped a couple of rivets on one rib and cracked along a strake over a trailer roller. He replaced the rivets, but fine cracks radiated out around those rivets over time due to cycling of the hull. Dad never got those leaks to stop, but I don't think he really pursued the issue aggressively. I think a good heliarc patch job could fix the strake crack, but those popped rivets would be difficult to address even now. I would probably heliarc a patch on the outside of the hull, place a shim between the rib and the skin and then rivet through all of it, but this would probably just cause the next rivet down the line to pop. This is the main problem with those old riveted hulls.

It floated shallower than any mod-vee bass boat he's had since.

Nate


----------



## kfa4303 (Jun 25, 2012)

Here's my little tin skiff. She's a 1959 Arkansas Traveler DUT-14. It started life as a skifboat/runabout with a fiberglass cap, but that was long gone when I got her as a bare hull. She's now just a little 2-3 person skiff with a '66 Johnson 20hp. I also have lots of little, PVC, DIY bits I've added too. She's ugly as sin, but runs like a champ and the old timers get a kick out of it at the dock. Tinnie power!


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the input and pics guys, keep them coming. To be honest the v-hulls are not too far off from the shape of the fiberglass one I was going to build.

Now seriously, before I get to excited, is it worth getting an older v-hull, verses a true jon boat (flat bottom square nose)? This little boat will only be used to go camping down the river, some lake fishing, and rare occasion some skinny flats fishing. I like the character of the v-hulls, but the jons are a dime a dozen. 

Which ever one I end up with, I will repair any leaking rivets, possibly epoxy seal and paint the outside, and then maybe use some tuff coat, kiwigrip,..... on the inside. But plans change so we will see.


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

try this on the rivets. get someone under the boat pressing up on the leaky rivet with a 2lb sledge. from inside set the rivet with a small hammer and pin punch. I did my Starcraft like this years ago and it has been dry as a bone ever since. Used to leak pretty badly. This was along the keel.


----------



## jeross (Jun 6, 2009)

> Now seriously, before I get to excited, is it worth getting an older v-hull, verses a true jon boat (flat bottom square nose)? This little boat will only be used to go camping down the river, some lake fishing, and rare occasion some skinny flats fishing. I like the character of the v-hulls, but the jons are a dime a dozen.


I own a v-hull but also use jonboats quite often in a "work" capacity. A jon would be easier to beach and unload. The nature of the v-hull makes exiting from the bow a bit more challenging, though you could swing it in broadside and unload easily enough. Ride would be better with the v-hull IMO. The shape of the flat bottom jon and the low gunwales means that your seat will be much lower than your knees while a v-hull has more room from the seat to the bottom and is much easier on my back while sitting than a jonboat. Hope that helps.


----------



## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

You forgot to mention. Pole from the bow


----------



## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

> Thanks for all the input and pics guys, keep them coming. To be honest the v-hulls are not too far off from the shape of the fiberglass one I was going to build.
> 
> Now seriously, before I get to excited, is it worth getting an older v-hull, verses a true jon boat (flat bottom square nose)? This little boat will only be used to go camping down the river, some lake fishing, and rare occasion some skinny flats fishing. I like the character of the v-hulls, but the jons are a dime a dozen.
> 
> Which ever one I end up with, I will repair any leaking rivets, possibly epoxy seal and paint the outside, and then maybe use some tuff coat, kiwigrip,..... on the inside. But plans change so we will see.


Six of one, half dozen of the other.

They both will do great.  Get what feels right.  I like welded hulls and welded jons are more common, but if I could find that old boat of my dad's, I'd by it in an instant.

While jons are a dime a dozen down south, old vee hulls are a dime a dozen in the upper Midwest.  If you have any connections in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc you can cyber stalk CL in their area and have them check hulls out for you.  By the time you factor in transport, you'll probably lose some money on the deal, but you'll find a better selection to choose from.

Nate

P.S. Checked around Kansas City and found ~8 old 14' riveted vees $800 or less. Most had trailers and some had motors (old, beat up, but salvageable). Those beasts stay in circulation.

P.S.S. ...but you really need a Grumman Sportboat if you like nostalgic riveted vee hulls!


----------



## Capt Dan Medina (Apr 28, 2008)

I've had more aluminum boats that I can count.... I've always stuck to the traditional Jon, or with a semi v up front. They float shallower, are not as tippy, and are cheap and easy to maintain. 
Here are a couple pics that I had available...


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I do like those Capt Dan, but for some reason those old classic v-hulls are talking to me. 

Nate I have found several close by to my house, I just gotta get some things finished up before pulling the trigger.


----------



## kfa4303 (Jun 25, 2012)

I always like something with a little bit of V in the bow/hull, especially if you're going to spend a lot of time at the beach. I think it helps take a wave and reduces slap a little. My old girl is +50yrs old and the rivets are still holding strong, but a welded hull would be sweet if you could find one at a decent price. Starcraft, Lonestar, Duracrafts, Alumacrafts, Arkansas Traveler, Orlando Clipper are all brands you'll see pop up a lot.


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

don't forget the cream of the crop, FeatherCraft. I grew up fishing out of a 14 footer, sweet boats.


----------



## kfa4303 (Jun 25, 2012)

Good call devrep. Gotta love those old "barrel backs". Super cool hull shapes, for sure. For any interested, check out iboats.com for tons of vintage tinnie restorations and tips.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Those are pretty cool.


----------

