# Panga Marine shutting its doors



## Finn Maccumhail

While a panga doesn’t necessarily qualify as a micro they’ve got a following and it looks like Panga Marine in Sarasota is shutting their doors. 

It’s being reported on Facebook by a guy who worked there. Any of y’all in Florida heard anything?


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## Guest

Wow, I’ve not heard anything.


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## firecat1981

Yep, it's all over THT. They had no incoming orders and the sales have been dropping in recent years.

I thought they were cool, but they out priced most of us. I read all the time about guys shipping in bare hulls from Mexico for 8-10k shipped for a 22-26ft. They aren't as nice as Panga marine, or Andros, but the price point seems more important in that class of boat.


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## camp

If this is true it is sad but perhaps predictable. The whole idea of a panga from its inception was simplicity and minimal hp.. They seem to have forgotten what they must have known early on and began to build bigger and bigger and fancier and fancier. Their early 18 and 19 boats were beautiful, simple, sea worthy and highly functional(heads and shoulders above Mexico etc.) with low hp. requirements...I believe there is still a sustainable market for this package.


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## topnative2

I thought that 18evo would be the cats meow...oh well


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## Finn Maccumhail

topnative2 said:


> I thought that 18evo would be the cats meow...oh well


That’s what I have. Honestly, if I lived almost anywhere in Florida it would be the absolute best all around boat I could imagine but it simply doesn’t run or float shallow enough for most of where I fish in Texas.


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## camp

Finn Maccumhail said:


> That’s what I have. Honestly, if I lived almost anywhere in Florida it would be the absolute best all around boat I could imagine but it simply doesn’t run or float shallow enough for most of where I fish in Texas.


I have the 18.5 rolled gunnel CC with a 70 Suzuki...light, shallow and able in big water. Love the boat. It floats shallow 8-10 and sips fuel. Beach it, run it off shore on a nice day and fishes dang shallow. I've run it across Charlotte Harbor and come home in heavy chop and a following sea and never been concerned. Great boat..great model. they should go back to their roots.

I was out today and two people yelled..beautiful boat. It just is!


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## Finn Maccumhail

My Evo needs an honest 10” to pole it and in most of Texas if you’re not a sub-8” poling draft you’re out of the game unless you can wade.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great all around boat and my family loves it but there’s a reason I’m working on rebuilding a 15’ micro.


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## Cam

Pangas always seemed like an odd duck for inshore and gulf waters IMO.


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## Guest

Finn Maccumhail said:


> While a panga doesn’t necessarily qualify as a micro they’ve got a following and it looks like Panga Marine in Sarasota is shutting their doors.
> 
> It’s being reported on Facebook by a guy who worked there. Any of y’all in Florida heard anything?


A real shame. The crew at Panga Marine seemed like great people.


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## CoolRunnings

I really want a tiller 18. Finding a used one is tough. I wish someone would keep the same beam and shrink it to 16.5. User DeerFly had my favorite 18 and used to post. G8rfly has a droolworthy 18 as well


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## Backcountry 16

My uncle has a cut down 18 tiller


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## Guest

Austin_Boudreaux said:


> I really want a tiller 18. Finding a used one is tough. I wish someone would keep the same beam and shrink it to 16.5. User DeerFly had my favorite 18 and used to post. G8rfly has a droolworthy 18 as well


Well maybe a certain up and coming boat works company will tool up for a 16-18’ minimalist ultra light panga in the near future? Let me get my design out there and if there is enough interest I’ll build a few pangas for the market.


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## SomaliPirate

camp said:


> I have the 18.5 rolled gunnel CC with a 70 Suzuki...light, shallow and able in big water. Love the boat. It floats shallow 8-10 and sips fuel. Beach it, run it off shore on a nice day and fishes dang shallow. I've run it across Charlotte Harbor and come home in heavy chop and a following sea and never been concerned. Great boat..great model. they should go back to their roots.
> 
> I was out today and two people yelled..beautiful boat. It just is!


They really do have aesthetic lines. I've always like the look of them.


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## firecat1981

The problem with the smaller panga is they don't perform like the original larger designs. I always wondered why they really didn't make them shorter then 18ft, until I saw one and realized how the scale down would effect it. A panga is supposed to be a long narrow knife cutting efficiently through the water. Making them longer makes them run better, but shortening one without dramatically shrinking the beam just kills the efficiency. Shrinking the beam to make it work will make it tippy and draft more.
Basically I think there are plenty of better designs out there for the 17ft and under class. 

Now if someone could make a decent budget version like they do in mexico, with just a little better finish, then they would do well. Say a 22-24fter rigged simple, and packaged around 30k would be great and on par with some other budget boats.


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## camp

Boatbrains said:


> Well maybe a certain up and coming boat works company will tool up for a 16-18’ minimalist ultra light panga in the near future? Let me get my design out there and if there is enough interest I’ll build a few pangas for the market.


the original designs where put out by the world bank and are available for free. However I think Firecat is correct about cutting the length and losing the effiency of the hull. I tested a 16 ft Panga.com hull and it was wrong for anything other than a tender or small water. 

The Panga marine hull is far more complicated than the traditional boats and probably too expensive to produce for a small simple skiff with today's material costs thus their move to higher end custom boats.


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## Guest

Camp, I would most likely stick to what has worked if I did it. I would only do to put a skiff out there that you folks want and it would have to function properly so I would not re invent the panga in any ways. If 18’ is shortest you can get while keeping it right then 18’ it is lol!


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## Backcountry 16

My uncle's 18 performs very well for what it is he has 3 grandkids and it's basically a water bus to get to the beach and back safely. You would not want to pole it for very long as the high bow is a major wind catcher. But it's a very stable fishing platform.


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## Salt of the Water

That's a bummer that PM is closing. They seemed to fill a nice niche of mid-range pangas with superior build quality to the South American hulls, but not the high price tag of the Andros boats.

I've been on Finns 18 Evo, and have a 19' Mimsa from Mexico. Very similar boats in length, but pretty different in performance. The Evo has more beam, some deadrise at the stern, and head and shoulders better build quality, fit, and finish. My Mimsa is narrower, flatter at the back, and was very cheaply built. The Evo rides better, but draws more water on the pole.


There's still a few other American panga options out there.
It looks like Andros spun off their smaller models into a company called Abaco Skiff co, who is make them more production style and less custom. Not sure if the price was lowered much or not.

Pelagic hybrids is making a 20' and 26' hulls. The guy who was importing Mimsas wasn't happy with the quality coming out of the shop in Mexico and started building hulls somewhere in Florida.

Slayer skiffs has the old Angler panga molds (not a micro or skiff really) and I beleive they're still building a few of them. It's a 26' boat with some serious dead rise at the stern.

Tom Mitzlaff was working on a 20'er that was supposed to come out middle of this year. Not sure what happened, and why that project petered out.


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## mtoddsolomon

I really like them, I was honestly considering one of the 22' with a tower for when the wife and I have a family. I hope Andros can keep the doors open.


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## dranrab

I always thought the concept of a Panga was simplicity and economy. The price point of Pangas was upper mid tier though.


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## Indoman

I looked hard at the base 18’ a few years ago. Even toured the factory. From a price standpoint I thought it was a bargain. Very nice hull for around $9800, if memory serves. 

Had they kept the 18’ with the lower sheer, fairly certain I would have bought one.


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## noeettica

Guy I know in Zephyrhills had a Panga "Self Destruct" was a nightmare !

Then again another person destroyed an Lt 25 that lives in Carolina but that one was user error ! You can't pound the P**S out of them !!!


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## Finn Maccumhail

dranrab said:


> I always thought the concept of a Panga was simplicity and economy. The price point of Pangas was upper mid tier though.


It's a fine line to walk. I think most American consumers want a higher level of fit & finish than the Mexican pangas and Panga Marine delivered on that refinement while still being budget friendly. Perhaps not budget friendly relative to the Mexican pangas but still far less expensive than a lot of other boats, skiff or not. For a more traditional bay boat, I'd put the Blue Waves on par with PM from a fit & finish and the Blue Waves are more expensive when comparably sized and equipped. In the skiff world the 18' Panga Marine boats are probably more in line with an East Cape Evo or Vantage (though not as refined) and the PM was a lot less money.

At any rate, the folks at Panga Marine are good people and I wish them the best. It bums me out to see a shop like this close.


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## Finn Maccumhail

I'll also say that when I got my Panga I got a quote from Andros for an almost identical rig and there was about a $20,000 price difference with the Andros being more expensive.


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## Capnredfish

Just my opinion. They are ugly. Design just doesn’t seem to be what American consumers like judging by the general look of most boats built here.


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## Salt of the Water




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## firecat1981

Capnredfish said:


> Just my opinion. They are ugly. Design just doesn’t seem to be what American consumers like judging by the general look of most boats built here.


There are tons of us who think they are dead sexy. If there wasn't a market then guys wouldn't be paying to have them shipped over from Mexico each month.

Issue is the cost, and making them something they are not meant to be. Added deadrise....it's not a panga....Added beam.....not a panga....Powered to 50mph....not a panga..... You get the point.

These are meant to be narrow efficient workboats. Not upper tear boats. Build then cheap, but tough, and the market will come, but that's not what we do here.


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## Capnredfish

Again. Just my opinion. From first look I would not look into buying one. That’s all. We don’t all like the same thing. I still stand with my original thought. They don’t have the look that sells thousands of boats. Including ones that cost more.


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## Different Drummer

Salt of the Water said:


> That's a bummer that PM is closing. They seemed to fill a nice niche of mid-range pangas with superior build quality to the South American hulls, but not the high price tag of the Andros boats.
> 
> I've been on Finns 18 Evo, and have a 19' Mimsa from Mexico. Very similar boats in length, but pretty different in performance. The Evo has more beam, some deadrise at the stern, and head and shoulders better build quality, fit, and finish. My Mimsa is narrower, flatter at the back, and was very cheaply built. The Evo rides better, but draws more water on the pole.
> 
> 
> There's still a few other American panga options out there.
> It looks like Andros spun off their smaller models into a company called Abaco Skiff co, who is make them more production style and less custom. Not sure if the price was lowered much or not.
> 
> Pelagic hybrids is making a 20' and 26' hulls. The guy who was importing Mimsas wasn't happy with the quality coming out of the shop in Mexico and started building hulls somewhere in Florida.
> 
> Slayer skiffs has the old Angler panga molds (not a micro or skiff really) and I beleive they're still building a few of them. It's a 26' boat with some serious dead rise at the stern.
> 
> Tom Mitzlaff was working on a 20'er that was supposed to come out middle of this year. Not sure what happened, and why that project petered out.


A few months back I became interested in the Panga style hull. Gotta say that the number of producers / builders has my head spinning. Add to that the ones that have come and gone and it gets worse. Things stay on the internet forever so that long gone operations look as though they are still around.
Anyway, I am looking for an on water utility vehicle and that means staying with the original Panga concept. Tiller model / simple/ low HP with lots of deck space.
I understand that the Pelagic Hybrid is an exact image of the Mimsa 23 cut down to 20 feet with the beam being unchanged. Can anyone confirm this? Wonder who built a mold for the boat?
Also in an attempt to contribute to the community I will add. I visited Slayer Skiff in Perry, Florida. He seems to have three Panga molds. One appears to be the 26 that I hear referred to as the "Pangler". I believe this was the Angler 26.
He also has a 22 that looks exactly ( I saw two hulls ) like the Panga.com 22LX. And I do mean exactly to the smallest detail. Additionally he builds a 14 that is identical to the Panga.com 14 Manatee, and the Andros 14. I think Abaco Skiff is now making the 14 as well. Not sure how that plays out with who has what molds.
If anyone can add to this I sure am happy to get the information.
Too bad about Panga Marine . I was just getting ready to give them a call and perhaps arrange a visit.


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## duppyzafari

I just saw the Panga Marine truck, downtown. Kiiiiiida sad. The folks at PM were top-notch and I always loved the concept and execution. I'm sorry to see them fold up shop.


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## topnative2

Has any of this been verified?


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## Salt of the Water

Different Drummer said:


> A few months back I became interested in the Panga style hull. Gotta say that the number of producers / builders has my head spinning. Add to that the ones that have come and gone and it gets worse.
> 
> I understand that the Pelagic Hybrid is an exact image of the Mimsa 23 cut down to 20 feet with the beam being unchanged. Can anyone confirm this? Wonder who built a mold for the boat?
> 
> If anyone can add to this I sure am happy to get the information.


Here's some pictures of a pelagic hybrid 20 in Texas. The boat belongs to a guy who went for a test ride on my mimsa and stayed in touch while ordering his pelagic hybrid.

I'm not sure who made the molds, but I know the owner of the company changed glass shops to try and keep prices reasonable. My experience was that he's very easy to work with.




  








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If you want a simple tiller boat with low HP requirements, the pelagic may be the right boat for you. If you're tight on budget and willing to sacrifice fit, finish, and warranty I'd look at Central American hulls.

Imemsa is the biggest builder of pangas in Mexico. There is a US importer who has been bringing them in for a while, but marks the hulls up quite a bit to cover shipping, paperwork, etc...

Eduardono and Uforia are two other options with importers who pop up for awhile and then disappear.


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## Zika

Album is listed as private so photos aren't displaying, Salt.


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## Different Drummer

NaCl of H2O,

Thanks for the Info. I know you have been around this block a couple of times as my research has found me reading your posts in regards to Pangas more than once.

I would like to keep the boat wood free if at all possible.

I just got off the phone with Abaco Skiffs. Awaiting photos of build process and finished product from them. The18 Backwater would be their possible candidate. I don't get the drift that they are inexpensive by any means. That is OK as long as the product warrants the price.
With Panga Marine closing that would leave Pelagic Hybrid and Slayer as remaining sources for a boat. The Slayer 22 is just a tad large for the application that I want the boat to service. It does however appear to have all the characteristics of an "Original" Panga hull.


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## stussing

topnative2 said:


> Has any of this been verified?


Yes, they shut their doors last Friday. The PM owner called my boat builder earlier this week.


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## Matts

I’ve fished them in other countries and stood there helpless while my guide couldn’t get me to bones where one couldn’t wade. Nice for offshore and the bay but worthless for how I fish in TX. Sad for the company but not much of a TPS.


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## yobata

Matts said:


> Sad for the company but not much of a TPS.


Good thing is, they never claimed to be or were purposed as a tech poling skiff... but yes a bay boat capable of near shore fishing. I personally do like them mostly because of their utilitarian traits


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## tjtfishon

This is a shorter narrower version of a hull that has similar lines to the Panga. Ankona Tavernier 17' This pic is from their website.


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## Different Drummer

If the Tavernier hull runs efficiently like the Panga it may fill the bill. Though It would probably do quite well in shallow water I suspect it might fall short of yhe Pangas ability in snotty conditions.
Thanks for the Info.



tjtfishon said:


> This is a shorter narrower version of a hull that has similar lines to the Panga. Ankona Tavernier 17' This pic is from their website.


I


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## Finn Maccumhail

Matts said:


> I’ve fished them in other countries and stood there helpless while my guide couldn’t get me to bones where one couldn’t wade. Nice for offshore and the bay but worthless for how I fish in TX. Sad for the company but not much of a TPS.


Definitely not a TPS. For me it’s a compromise because of having a family with 2 young kids. It does a lot of things pretty well but not necessarily great at anything.

I think Salt of the Water’s hull is probably about half what my Evo weighs so it floats skinnier. And there are quite a few boats which are considered skiffs that draft the same 10” I do.


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## tjtfishon

Different Drummer said:


> If the Tavernier hull runs efficiently like the Panga it may fill the bill. Though It would probably do quite well in shallow water I suspect it might fall short of yhe Pangas ability in snotty conditions.
> Thanks for the Info.
> 
> 
> I


It's a compromise for sure, but night and day better than my 16' Hog Island flat bottom jon boat.


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## Different Drummer

Thanks for posting Todd,
I just finished reading the thread on your build. Attractive boat for sure.
I would be looking at a tiller model utilitarian skiff. A jeep on the water so to speak. I need the open deck for sleeping as the CC probably would prevent that. I put a call into the company but got an answering machine. Of course today is Saturday before Christmas so I can understand that.
The shallow water capability is not a concern for me. 12 inches is fine. However, I do seem to wind up in some rougher conditions at times and that might be a concern. My reason or considering the Panga style was an attempt to get a hull that was not necessarily great at one thing but acceptable at a couple of things. Sort of like a "Jack of all trades but master of none" approach.
I have yet to see a bottom view of the Hull on the Tavernier. What are your thoughts?


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## tjtfishon

Different Drummer said:


> Thanks for posting Todd,
> I just finished reading the thread on your build. Attractive boat for sure.
> I would be looking at a tiller model utilitarian skiff. A jeep on the water so to speak. I need the open deck for sleeping as the CC probably would prevent that. I put a call into the company but got an answering machine. Of course today is Saturday before Christmas so I can understand that.
> The shallow water capability is not a concern for me. 12 inches is fine. However, I do seem to wind up in some rougher conditions at times and that might be a concern. My reason or considering the Panga style was an attempt to get a hull that was not necessarily great at one thing but acceptable at a couple of things. Sort of like a "Jack of all trades but master of none" approach.
> I have yet to see a bottom view of the Hull on the Tavernier. What are your thoughts?


The bottom has a slight deadrise which gives it a much better ride than my previous flat bottom skiff. The reverse chines on the edges make it extremely stable for such a narrow skiff. I can walk the gunwales all day long and not spill my coffee! The nose cuts chop pretty well, especially with trim tabs which I would say is a must have on this skiff. If you are near Tampa Bay and wand to take a ride I'd be glad to have you. Otherwise I'm sure Rose or Erin can put you in touch with someone closer that might have one.


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## Different Drummer

tjtfishon said:


> The bottom has a slight deadrise which gives it a much better ride than my previous flat bottom skiff. The reverse chines on the edges make it extremely stable for such a narrow skiff. I can walk the gunwales all day long and not spill my coffee! The nose cuts chop pretty well, especially with trim tabs which I would say is a must have on this skiff. If you are near Tampa Bay and wand to take a ride I'd be glad to have you. Otherwise I'm sure Rose or Erin can put you in touch with someone closer that might have one.


Might take you up on that offer after Christmas. I am North of you in Cedar Key until the end of January.
I would love to get a look at her. No need for a ride.


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## Backwater

Here's the latest in the Panga world in Sarasota. Andros sold off their small skiff line to their long time shop manager, who has took his love for the boat and the bull by the horns and is running with it. So Andros is now concentrating with their 26ft line and larger.

The new company is called Abaco Skiffs and are actually build with the same quality as the Andros line of boats (always a higher line of boats from what Panga Marine were producing). Why? As with Andros, the same lamination schedule and components. Same molds, same employees and team that was building them and they are built in the same shop as Andros are building their bigger boats. So side by side, you'll see an Andros next to an Abaco Skiff. Guys, these are not cheaply built. These are high quality build, with a stringer grid system like very high end boats. There quality control is very good for what they are building and is a boat that will last.

Check out the site!
https://abacoskiff.com/

The Backwater 18 (no relation! ) is really nice and the F&F is there. Great riding skiff that doesn't bounce you around and is a very dry ride. Good storage and a very fishy boat, both shallow, big bay fishing and near shore. Definitely a super fun boat. They are going to be supplying them to dealers. But I was really impressed with the quality. Like Finn mentioned, they are not a super skinny water. But think the draft of a regular flats boat, including the 22 and they are there. So 9-10" is realistic. Can you pole the 18? Yes, but no doubt in's not a TPS. I would call it more of an all-around boat that can keep you from needing a bigger boat to fish the bay, but small and shallow enough to comfortably fish the flats. If you are trying to fly fish to reds crawling around in 6" of water, then this might not be for you. But if you generally fish in waters a foot deep or deeper and want to cross big water to get to those fishing waters, then thing might be what you are looking for. A demo ride will be the ultimate litmus test to comparing the ride. 

I talked to the owner and we are working on a marketing plan to do some factory direct sales out of the factory, with factory direct pricing and warranties, for pick up locally. You can PM me if you want some details and pricing. They are already showing up at dealers, but the factory direct thing will start happening in early 2019. We are also working on a few demo boats to test out the ride. I'll announce it on microskiff, when everything is in place and can start taking orders.

Ted Haas


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## Finn Maccumhail

Thanks for the info Ted. 

I think Panga Marine was caught in the middle. Too expensive to be a budget boat but not high enough F&F to be with the significantly more expensive Andros/Abaco line.


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## Different Drummer

Thanks for the Info on Abaco Ted,
The boat looks nice and for me if the quality of the build is there the premium price is acceptable.
However, the lack of flexibility on the build puts a bump in the road for me. I realize that the majority of buyers have fishing foremost in their mind and the large area raised decks are desirable. I need shorter raised decks in the bow and stern. In the stern as a seat and still be able to comfortably operate a tiller model.
Shorter raised deck in the bow to open up midship deck area. Sleeping amidships is necessary. Maybe even set up a small bivy style tent.
My understanding is that there is no latitude to alter the deck cap. The entire piece from stem to stern comes out of the mold as you see it. What you see is what you get. I understand this as the goal is for a prodution built boat. Rolling out the door basically the same one after the other.


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## Backwater

Different Drummer said:


> Thanks for the Info on Abaco Ted,
> The boat looks nice and for me if the quality of the build is there the premium price is acceptable.
> However, the lack of flexibility on the build puts a bump in the road for me. I realize that the majority of buyers have fishing foremost in their mind and the large area raised decks are desirable. I need shorter raised decks in the bow and stern. In the stern as a seat and still be able to comfortably operate a tiller model.
> Shorter raised deck in the bow to open up midship deck area. Sleeping amidships is necessary. Maybe even set up a small bivy style tent.
> My understanding is that there is no latitude to alter the deck cap. The entire piece from stem to stern comes out of the mold as you see it. What you see is what you get. I understand this as the goal is for a prodution built boat. Rolling out the door basically the same one after the other.


I can look into that as they get closer to dealing with customers direct. They are a small enough company to be able to accommodate some changes. But without the center consoles and going with small platform decks, that can be accomplished with a budget style Panga. I'm not sure what the length you need, but I know a guy who has a 22 Panga style old that may be able to deliver what you are looking for, but using better quality materials that will last, as far as the hull and deck and it's components are concern. You can PM me to discuss further.


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## Different Drummer

tjtfishon,
Sometime when you are on your boat do you think you might measure the deck length between the vertical surface of the forward casting deck and the vertical surface of the Aft casting deck? 
Thanks,
DD


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## tjtfishon

Different Drummer said:


> tjtfishon,
> Sometime when you are on your boat do you think you might measure the deck length between the vertical surface of the forward casting deck and the vertical surface of the Aft casting deck?
> Thanks,
> DD


I can tell you without measuring that it is at least 9' since I store my SuperStick (9') and PP Micro Stake (8.5') under the gunwales. I'll try to bring a tape next time I'm out for more specifics


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## tjtfishon

Different Drummer said:


> tjtfishon,
> Sometime when you are on your boat do you think you might measure the deck length between the vertical surface of the forward casting deck and the vertical surface of the Aft casting deck?
> Thanks,
> DD


9’1” to the front of the rear deck but it is open underneath to the transom so you really have clearance to just over 10’ under the gunwales.


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## Different Drummer

tjtfishon said:


> 9’1” to the front of the rear deck but it is open underneath to the transom so you really have clearance to just over 10’ under the gunwales.


Thanks, really appreciate it. Next question would be what would you guess the distance is from the side of the console to the side of the boat? 
Promise, last question.


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## tjtfishon

Different Drummer said:


> Thanks, really appreciate it. Next question would be what would you guess the distance is from the side of the console to the side of the boat?
> Promise, last question.


I don't keep the boat at home so I'll have to check next time I take it out. I can tell you it has never been an issue as far as too little space even with a rod holder on one side...


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## Different Drummer

tjtfishon said:


> I don't keep the boat at home so I'll have to check next time I take it out. I can tell you it has never been an issue as far as too little space even with a rod holder on one side...


Thanks Todd,
No rush. I am hoping to visit the manufacturing facility sometime or perhaps arrange to see yours sometime after the New Year.
Reason I am asking about all the dimensions is because there are times when I would camp on the boat for some extended periods of time. I would need room on deck to put my 6'2" body. Maybe even set a bivy style tent up right on the deck. Other thoughts are to have an extended dodger made so it acts like a tent top on the hull by attaching to the gunnels and that raised splash guard that is on the bow section.
Thanks again and have a safe , pleasant New year.


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## firecat1981

Just buy a tent cot and set it up right on the deck. That's what the gheenoe guys do and it's tiny in comparison.


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## tjtfishon

Different Drummer said:


> Thanks Todd,
> No rush. I am hoping to visit the manufacturing facility sometime or perhaps arrange to see yours sometime after the New Year.
> Reason I am asking about all the dimensions is because there are times when I would camp on the boat for some extended periods of time. I would need room on deck to put my 6'2" body. Maybe even set a bivy style tent up right on the deck. Other thoughts are to have an extended dodger made so it acts like a tent top on the hull by attaching to the gunnels and that raised splash guard that is on the bow section.
> Thanks again and have a safe , pleasant New year.


You could not sleep on the deck with the center console. I don’t think a hammock would work very well with the console either.


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## Different Drummer

tjtfishon said:


> You could not sleep on the deck with the center console. I don’t think a hammock would work very well with the console either.


That is one of the reasons that my original plan was to go with a tiller set up. It would be nice though to have a place to mount some instrumentation though. Perhaps a very small console mounted way after with a grab bar would leave the dggeck space I need. Otherwise the forward casting deck would need to be shortened. I imagine that would be difficult due to the tooling for the hull liner.
Oh well, I'll know more when I see one.


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## copperhead

I'd just go with a smaller offset center console on the Tavernier, there would be room down one side for a 7' space using a dodger/ tent arrangement to sleep. Already did one for an Everglades backcountry camper.. but he handled the tent aspect himself...

Mel


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## Different Drummer

firecat1981 said:


> Just buy a tent cot and set it up right on the deck. That's what the gheenoe guys do and it's tiny in comparison.


This is exactly why I am asking about available deck space. With the CC where it is on Todd's boat this may not be an option.


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## Different Drummer

copperhead said:


> I'd just go with a smaller offset center console on the Tavernier, there would be room down one side for a 7' space using a dodger/ tent arrangement to sleep. Already did one for an Everglades backcountry camper.. but he handled the tent aspect himself...
> 
> Mel


Exactly what I have been thinking Mel. Small offset console to starboard with a grab loop on top. IntrumenInstrum, switches, trim tab controls ect on the console. Would like the fuel in the bow are to help with weight distribution. Lightest and laest HP motor I can get away with.
EDIT: Damn, predictive spelling on my tablet made a mess of that post!! LOL
Back to the computer.


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## Salt of the Water

Different Drummer said:


> Exactly what I have been thinking Mel. Small offset console to starboard with a grab loop on top. IntrumenInstrum, switches, trim tab controls ect on the console. Would like the fuel in the bow are to help with weight distribution. Lightest and laest HP motor I can get away with.


I'm right around 7 ft clearance between console and front deck on my panga (console is very small). I have a tent cot also... May have to give it a try.

I'm leaning more towards a pair of hammocks though for overnights. Be easier to rig a pair and do overnight trips with a buddy. 




  








20 Rigged From Stern




__
Salt of the Water


__
Mar 2, 2018


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## topnative2




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## Different Drummer

Salt of the Water said:


> I'm right around 7 ft clearance between console and front deck on my panga (console is very small). I have a tent cot also... May have to give it a try.
> 
> I'm leaning more towards a pair of hammocks though for overnights. Be easier to rig a pair and do overnight trips with a buddy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 Rigged From Stern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Salt of the Water
> 
> 
> __
> Mar 2, 2018


This is like what I am talking about. Hard to tell but that grab bar looks like I might prefer it a little further aft though. Can you operate the tiller with one hand and have the other hand on the grab bar?
And I just cannot do the hammock thing. Air mattress on deck for me. Your boat is longer so you get enough room between the front of the console and the forward casting deck. If I had to on a shorter boat I would move the console off center to starboard as I operate the tiller with my left hand and would use my ribhrhand to operate console mounted electronics and hold the grab bar when it is rough.
This is probably blasphemous to say here but all the things you guys design and add for fishing mean nothing to me. I would be happy to have that forward raised deck shortened a bit giving me more main deck space. I probably wouldn't have rod holders, live Wells etc. OK, flame suit is on!


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## Salt of the Water

I use my left hand on the tiller and the right on the grab bar. It works pretty good. Maybe 18 inches between the rear deck and the console.


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## duppyzafari

SOOOOOO..... this just popped up 5 hours ago on Sarasota Craigslist:

*Panga Marine is looking for experienced fiberglass laminators. Full time positions for experienced laminators. Experience, good attitude, work ethic and reliable transportation is important. Apply in person:
1520 Northgate Blvd. Sarasota. $15 to $18 / hour or more. BoE.
*
That's good news, right?


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## Guest

duppyzafari said:


> SOOOOOO..... this just popped up 5 hours ago on Sarasota Craigslist:
> 
> *Panga Marine is looking for experienced fiberglass laminators. Full time positions for experienced laminators. Experience, good attitude, work ethic and reliable transportation is important. Apply in person:
> 1520 Northgate Blvd. Sarasota. $15 to $18 / hour or more. BoE.
> *
> That's good news, right?


Maybe a partnership type bailout??? Hope it works out whatever the case may be for them!


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## Different Drummer

Would be good news for sure. Saw a Panga being launched today here in Cedar Key. I started a conversation with the owner. His boat was an early Panga Marine and he liked it. He also spoke well of someone I believe he called Roger who apparently is associated with the company.


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## redfish5

Posted this morning.


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## duppyzafari

That's terrific news and I'm glad to see it.


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## ArtP

Does anyone know if all paga brands use the same hull molds? I have seen Argos and Imemsa pangas and they all look pretty much the same


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## firecat1981

Most of them are different between the brands. The sheer lines and narrow beam make them all look similar, but from what I've seen they can be very different when it comes to hull bottom and construction.


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## duppyzafari

ArtP said:


> Does anyone know if all paga brands use the same hull molds? I have seen Argos and Imemsa pangas and they all look pretty much the same


Panga Marine pulls hulls directly from their molds here in Sarasota, FL. I've never visited the Andros facility but I would bet that they make their own hulls, as well.

I can't speak to the manufacturers you referenced.


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## Different Drummer

Six months ago I knew little about the Panga design and the various builders making them. After becoming interested in the Panga to fulfill my quest for a Swiss army knife of boats or a"Jack of all trades master of none" boat I have travelled down an interesting road of research and communications with some builders.
Many would consider the original Panga to be the displacement speed hull that takes VERY low HP and was made in wood. The FAO ( Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations ) version. 






*FAO Fisheries Technical Paper. No. 134, Rev. 2.*









Lets forget about that boat as it is not what nearly everyone is talking about when they speak "Panga"
The Panga design that is usually discussed is the one developed by Yamaha as part of a World Bank project somewhere around 1970. Though, there is an argument that supports Mac Shroyer in LaPaz as being the pioneer of the fiberglass Panga hull. Either way it is probably a moot point in regards to domestic built Panga's. These are Fiberglass planning hulls and use relatively low HP. ( not very low HP like the wood displacement hulls).
I think most will agree that this is the "Panga" we are usually discussing.

After researching these hulls I have my take on the myriad of hulls marketed. Both past and present. Just my opinion and I may very well be out in left field.
The Panga like so many products seems to have become "Americanized" when built in the USA. The old "Bigger is Better" great American way shines through. Go for more HP and then what the heck, go for yet a little more. Some of the HP increase of course may have been necessitated by the addition of weight arising from the "Americanization" process. i.e. CC, T-tops, Poling platforms, upper control tower, cockpit soles etc, etc. Those items in themselves are another area where the Panga began a metamorphosis on the domestic side of things. . Sheer lines, freeboard, beam width, and minor hull shapes seem to be found as well.
Companies have come and gone. And in some cases risen again from the ashes. Some rather large and others quite small and limited in their production capabilities. What ever happens in regards to the molds and where various hulls actually come from is a rather difficult trail to follow. Additionally I suspect that boats are splashed to produce new molds, particularly if there are no patents on the molds. 
In my world a hull design usually starts on the drawing board of a Naval Architect or boat designer of some nature. This is what I am used to seeing. An example I am sure everyone is familiar with is the Variable degree dead rise hull of Don Mosely. That design can be studied and some sense of where it came from and why it does what it does arrived at.
When I ask anyone I have thus far spoken to to explain where their Panga hull design comes from and explain how it functions I have yet to get a straight to the point answer. This of course does not apply to the imported Panga hulls that to the best of my speculation adhere to the original Yamaha design. Or any alteration by Yamaha to the original design.
What I am saying is that it appears as though Molds may change hands at least once and sometimes more so. Splashing hulls is a very real possibility. And, the Americanization of the species seems to be very much alive and at play.
At this stage of the game my conclusion is that if I want a Panga hull true to the original, and want it to be simple and function with moderately low HP I will be working with an Import.
I remain open to purchasing a domestic built Panga. However, the builder will need to communicate to me the origin of their hull as well as detail any evolution or changes in the hull design and why those changes were made.


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## Les_Lammers

Boatbrains said:


> Well maybe a certain up and coming boat works company will tool up for a 16-18’ minimalist ultra light panga in the near future? Let me get my design out there and if there is enough interest I’ll build a few pangas for the market.


My buddy has the 18 tiller from PM with a 60 eTec. Great boat but he would have gone for a 16. I'm interested in a 16 too. Mojito has a 16 but I'm not sure if they are still being made either.

http://mojitoboats.com/index.php?pageID=12116


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## First Light

Here is what's happening on January 16, 2021.


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## DuckNut

I hope the original owner got CASH when Kevin took over and not some payment plan!


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## Stripsearch

Salt of the Water said:


> That's a bummer that PM is closing. They seemed to fill a nice niche of mid-range pangas with superior build quality to the South American hulls, but not the high price tag of the Andros boats.
> 
> I've been on Finns 18 Evo, and have a 19' Mimsa from Mexico. Very similar boats in length, but pretty different in performance. The Evo has more beam, some deadrise at the stern, and head and shoulders better build quality, fit, and finish. My Mimsa is narrower, flatter at the back, and was very cheaply built. The Evo rides better, but draws more water on the pole.
> 
> 
> There's still a few other American panga options out there.
> It looks like Andros spun off their smaller models into a company called Abaco Skiff co, who is make them more production style and less custom. Not sure if the price was lowered much or not.
> 
> Pelagic hybrids is making a 20' and 26' hulls. The guy who was importing Mimsas wasn't happy with the quality coming out of the shop in Mexico and started building hulls somewhere in Florida.
> 
> Slayer skiffs has the old Angler panga molds (not a micro or skiff really) and I beleive they're still building a few of them. It's a 26' boat with some serious dead rise at the stern.
> 
> Tom Mitzlaff was working on a 20'er that was supposed to come out middle of this year. Not sure what happened, and why that project petered out.


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## chesapeake pride

Boatbrains said:


> Well maybe a certain up and coming boat works company will tool up for a 16-18’ minimalist ultra light panga in the near future? Let me get my design out there and if there is enough interest I’ll build a few pangas for the market.


Hey !!!! 
it's going on three years since your post on starting to build Panga boats. Are we still in the planning mode or have you started building pangas ?? If so send me your web. thanks !!!


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## First Light

chesapeake pride said:


> Hey !!!!
> it's going on three years since your post on starting to build Panga boats. Are we still in the planning mode or have you started building pangas ?? If so send me your web. thanks !!!


Tom Mitzlaff at SOLO Skiff is building a new panga. Tom is a pretty innovative guy, so it should be an interesting boat.


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## obxfish

Different Drummer said:


> Six months ago I knew little about the Panga design and the various builders making them. After becoming interested in the Panga to fulfill my quest for a Swiss army knife of boats or a"Jack of all trades master of none" boat I have travelled down an interesting road of research and communications with some builders.
> Many would consider the original Panga to be the displacement speed hull that takes VERY low HP and was made in wood. The FAO ( Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations ) version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FAO Fisheries Technical Paper. No. 134, Rev. 2.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets forget about that boat as it is not what nearly everyone is talking about when they speak "Panga"
> The Panga design that is usually discussed is the one developed by Yamaha as part of a World Bank project somewhere around 1970. Though, there is an argument that supports Mac Shroyer in LaPaz as being the pioneer of the fiberglass Panga hull. Either way it is probably a moot point in regards to domestic built Panga's. These are Fiberglass planning hulls and use relatively low HP. ( not very low HP like the wood displacement hulls).
> I think most will agree that this is the "Panga" we are usually discussing.
> 
> After researching these hulls I have my take on the myriad of hulls marketed. Both past and present. Just my opinion and I may very well be out in left field.
> The Panga like so many products seems to have become "Americanized" when built in the USA. The old "Bigger is Better" great American way shines through. Go for more HP and then what the heck, go for yet a little more. Some of the HP increase of course may have been necessitated by the addition of weight arising from the "Americanization" process. i.e. CC, T-tops, Poling platforms, upper control tower, cockpit soles etc, etc. Those items in themselves are another area where the Panga began a metamorphosis on the domestic side of things. . Sheer lines, freeboard, beam width, and minor hull shapes seem to be found as well.
> Companies have come and gone. And in some cases risen again from the ashes. Some rather large and others quite small and limited in their production capabilities. What ever happens in regards to the molds and where various hulls actually come from is a rather difficult trail to follow. Additionally I suspect that boats are splashed to produce new molds, particularly if there are no patents on the molds.
> In my world a hull design usually starts on the drawing board of a Naval Architect or boat designer of some nature. This is what I am used to seeing. An example I am sure everyone is familiar with is the Variable degree dead rise hull of Don Mosely. That design can be studied and some sense of where it came from and why it does what it does arrived at.
> When I ask anyone I have thus far spoken to to explain where their Panga hull design comes from and explain how it functions I have yet to get a straight to the point answer. This of course does not apply to the imported Panga hulls that to the best of my speculation adhere to the original Yamaha design. Or any alteration by Yamaha to the original design.
> What I am saying is that it appears as though Molds may change hands at least once and sometimes more so. Splashing hulls is a very real possibility. And, the Americanization of the species seems to be very much alive and at play.
> At this stage of the game my conclusion is that if I want a Panga hull true to the original, and want it to be simple and function with moderately low HP I will be working with an Import.
> I remain open to purchasing a domestic built Panga. However, the builder will need to communicate to me the origin of their hull as well as detail any evolution or changes in the hull design and why those changes were made.


Drummer....spent alot of years down in puerto rico..and have at least 10 years and 1000 trips on 23 panga...story is these were all eduardono corvinas ...23 feet or whatever in meters...medallin columbia...out of that un project...they just stack them like dixie cups to ship...cause we had money we would put a floor and console in them...hang a 85 AET yamaha...same as enduro with power trim...a couple of us had aluminum tops most had a bimini...there were 20 or so commercial guys fishing these out of that area.15 -25 miles offshore..they ran about 22kt. they are wet and beat the h### out of you but tough...1/2 inch solid glass...I saw a panga marine back about 15 years ago up in the states and the hull looked the same...maybe from columbia and fluffed in miami...went on an andros panga back then...had to take our shoes off... had engraved plexiglass top on livewell...been all through central america and they run these with a tiller 40hp...most towns take a old wooden dug out and use it as a mold to make hulls...only the resorts have factory boats...the imusa have way lower sides than the eduardono...think these became a fashion..up here..there are a lot more comfortable boats than a panga..they are a cheap tough skiff...I will second that when you start putting a bunch of stuff in them besides fish..they loose their purpose..


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