# Sabine Skiff demo in Rockport, Texas



## Mattlow (Nov 12, 2014)

I have not seen anyone post about this yet. Sabine Skiffs will be at Swan Point Landing and Real Ale Brewery will have some refreshments. Demos afterwards in Little Bay. I talked with Brian and he is bringing a Micro and Versatile tunnel.

Im getting a tunnel Micro built but still going for another ride.
www.sabineskiffs.com


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Nice!


----------



## Mattlow (Nov 12, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Nice!


Looking forward to getting mine built. A tunnel Micro with a Foreman prop should be killer.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mattlow said:


> Looking forward to getting mine built. A tunnel Micro with a Foreman prop should be killer.


Should run in spit


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

And you won't have to worry nearly as much about oysters. I like the idea of an aluminum skiff. Are they really as quiet as Brian says?


----------



## NativeBone (Aug 16, 2017)

Bad ass video! Wow! Anyone know who makes that prop? Looks like it has deadly performance


----------



## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

not2shabby said:


> And you won't have to worry nearly as much about oysters. I like the idea of an aluminum skiff. Are they really as quiet as Brian says?


They are extremely quiet. I have a buddy who was contemplating buying one and went along for the demo ride/fishing. We're both big dudes, former college OL- he's about 6'5" 330# and I'm 6'3" 340# and it was only when all of us were standing on the rear deck and the bow came up out of the water that there was any hull slap.

I don't know how shallow we were able to get up and run (this was the original, camo painted demo skiff so no tunnel) but we were legitimately poling in 7" over a hard sand bottom with the 3 of us on the skiff.

I think my buddy's wife killed the deal temporarily because he's starting a new business and they're buying a new house so they didn't want to commit cash at the moment. But it's an extremely impressive rig.


----------



## Chad Cohn (Mar 8, 2018)

Dang it would love to go to that but I'm on duty with the man-child athlete this weekend. Summer football is right around the corner and we gotta get ready. I want to see one of these in person big time, I like these a bunch but then again I really love the durability of aluminum.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Aluminum is not really any more durable than glass as far as taking abrasion from oysters, it is a soft metal and shell tears it up. I had an aluminum poling skiff and you can’t just plow over shell like people tend to believe. I’m hell on my Maverick but know that about once a year I’m going to be filling shell scars with MarineTex, it’s not pretty but fills the voids. It’s the same with aluminum. I guess guys are having their gelcoat redone and the cost is more than just filling in and re-coating an aluminum hull. At least with glass you can fill in and re-coat and not be as worried about corrosion starting and compromising the integrity of the hull.


----------



## Chad Cohn (Mar 8, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Aluminum is not really any more durable than glass as far as taking abrasion from oysters, it is a soft metal and shell tears it up. I had an aluminum poling skiff and you can’t just plow over shell like people tend to believe. I’m hell on my Maverick but know that about once a year I’m going to be filling shell scars with MarineTex, it’s not pretty but fills the voids. It’s the same with aluminum. I guess guys are having their gelcoat redone and the cost is more than just filling in and re-coating an aluminum hull. At least with glass you can fill in and re-coat and not be as worried about corrosion starting and compromising the integrity of the hull.


Good info, never thought of it like that.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Not taking anything away from Sabine Skiffs or any other aluminum hulls, just a statement from my experience with aluminum hulls. 
Sabine Skiffs are amazing and I would love to own one but will have to fish what I have for a while!


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Aluminum is not really any more durable than glass as far as taking abrasion from oysters, it is a soft metal and shell tears it up. I had an aluminum poling skiff and you can’t just plow over shell like people tend to believe. I’m hell on my Maverick but know that about once a year I’m going to be filling shell scars with MarineTex, it’s not pretty but fills the voids. It’s the same with aluminum. I guess guys are having their gelcoat redone and the cost is more than just filling in and re-coating an aluminum hull. At least with glass you can fill in and re-coat and not be as worried about corrosion starting and compromising the integrity of the hull.



If you're that worried about plowing into things we can build a skiff with a 3/16" bottom (like most of the river skiffs up north) and then you can plow away. Jump rocks and whatever you feel like tearing up. 

We are starting a 3/16" bottom Versatile in a few weeks for a guide in Florida. He put a 4' long hole in his HB on a coral rock. 

Now his HB will be his tarpon and open water skiff and his 3/16" bottom Versatile will be his shallow skiff. 

Worried about corrosion? Don't paint the bottom at all or wash your skiff.


----------



## Mattlow (Nov 12, 2014)

not2shabby said:


> And you won't have to worry nearly as much about oysters. I like the idea of an aluminum skiff. Are they really as quiet as Brian says?


I’ll try to take some video of the boat in chop while poling this weekend. During my demo I could not get it to slap at all. A few buddies have also demoed and heard nothing. 

I like aluminum because it is more durable for my style of use. I don’t plan on running over oysters at speed and expect damage if I do. Pulling the boat up on rock/shell or having rough friends while hunting is what I like. Scratches and touch up paint don’t bother me as much as scratched fiberglass. 

Smack,
As far as aluminum corrosion, my research is that the exposed aluminum will form an oxide layer that helps protect. Which is why some law enforcement/military do not paint.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

blittle said:


> If you're that worried about plowing into things we can build a skiff with a 3/16" bottom (like most of the river skiffs up north) and then you can plow away. Jump rocks and whatever you feel like tearing up.
> 
> We are starting a 3/16" bottom Versatile in a few weeks for a guide in Florida. He put a 4' long hole in his HB on a coral rock.
> 
> ...


If I own another aluminum hull the bottom will not be coated for sure. No amount of washing will stop corrosion once you scrape through the coating into the aluminum. 
I was commenting because I read and hear a lot of guys talking about the durability of aluminum hulls like they can just plow over shell without any negative effects which is not true. The ability to patch aluminum more easily than a composite hull is definitely a plus. 3/16” will be pretty sweet, my last hull was too thin. 
Yes aluminum will oxidize very quickly, once you sand and prep it for coating you have to prime it right away or the powdery oxidation will cause it not to adhere and the top coat will also flake right off. It’s crazy!


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Sabine Skiffs are built with 5086 Marine Grade bottoms and sides for abrasion resistance, hardness and corrosion resistance. All welded with 5356 wire.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If I own another aluminum hull the bottom will not be coated for sure. No amount of washing will stop corrosion once you scrape through the coating into the aluminum.
> I was commenting because I read and hear a lot of guys talking about the durability of aluminum hulls like they can just plow over shell without any negative effects which is not true. The ability to patch aluminum more easily than a composite hull is definitely a plus. 3/16” will be pretty sweet, my last hull was too thin.
> Yes aluminum will oxidize very quickly, once you sand and prep it for coating you have to prime it right away or the powdery oxidation will cause it not to adhere and the top coat will also flake right off. It’s crazy!


Oxidation has a lot to do with any type of electrical leakage on the boat OR trailer. I have seen the hulls eaten out of flounder boats before. Of course they have a little more current usage that your normal poling skiff....


----------



## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

Obviously aluminum will scratch and gouge, but it does seem to hold up better than other materials, especially to impacts. I have no experience with it corroding other than the fact that the majority of fishing boats in Alaska are uncleared aluminum, stay in the water for months at a time, and go dry on gravel bars almost daily. They don’t seem to have any issues.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

Look at what hell commercial fisherman and airboaters (who don't have polymer) put their boats through. Aluminum is definitely tougher than glass. Its downsides are being able to produce compounding curves easily.


----------



## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

Was down in Everglades City this past week fishing and talked to a guide who rented a condo across from the Captains Table where we were staying. He like to talk a lot, but I spent most of my time inspecting his original prototype Sabine skiff (not micro) and was impressed with what I saw. He beat the crap out of it running his Tohatsu jet engine over any and everything on the water and you could see it was a well built hull! Would like to see more pictures of the MICRO PLEASE!


----------



## Mattlow (Nov 12, 2014)

Bonecracker said:


> Was down in Everglades City this past week fishing and talked to a guide who rented a condo across from the Captains Table where we were staying. He like to talk a lot, but I spent most of my time inspecting his original prototype Sabine skiff (not micro) and was impressed with what I saw. He beat the crap out of it running his Tohatsu jet engine over any and everything on the water but you could see it was a well built hull! Would like to see more pictures of the MICRO PLEASE!


I’ll get some pictures and video of it and post after this weekend. Let me know if you want any particular shots. I will take a ruler too.


----------



## Dallas Furman (May 13, 2018)

Mattlow,
I am very interested in a Sabine Versatile. If you would be able to get a true draft with two people and a typical load that would be very helpful.


----------



## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Aluminum is not really any more durable than glass as far as taking abrasion from oysters, it is a soft metal and shell tears it up. I had an aluminum poling skiff and you can’t just plow over shell like people tend to believe. I’m hell on my Maverick but know that about once a year I’m going to be filling shell scars with MarineTex, it’s not pretty but fills the voids. It’s the same with aluminum. I guess guys are having their gelcoat redone and the cost is more than just filling in and re-coating an aluminum hull. At least with glass you can fill in and re-coat and not be as worried about corrosion starting and compromising the integrity of the hull.


Smack, I personally have run over 100 yards of oyster in a .125 wall thickness aluminum jet drive without any leaks or through and through punctures. Ran the boat several years after that with no consequence. My Curlew/ my hpxt would have been destroyed.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Bonecracker said:


> Was down in Everglades City this past week fishing and talked to a guide who rented a condo across from the Captains Table where we were staying. He like to talk a lot, but I spent most of my time inspecting his original prototype Sabine skiff (not micro) and was impressed with what I saw. He beat the crap out of it running his Tohatsu jet engine over any and everything on the water but you could see it was a well built hull! Would like to see more pictures of the MICRO PLEASE!


Got your email. Tried to call but you weren't in the office. For more pictures visit the Sabine Skiff Facebook or Instagram page. Can't sent too many pictures via email.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

Checked them out yesterday. Nice skiffs but they will still get hot in the sun like all aluminum boats. They put seadeck on them to help but that’s more weight. Didn’t get to talk and see what the finished weight was. There were quite a few people there asking questions.


----------



## hcft (Dec 10, 2015)

An entire boat full of seadek that size might add 30lbs haha.. just FTR


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> Checked them out yesterday. Nice skiffs but they will still get hot in the sun like all aluminum boats. They put seadeck on them to help but that’s more weight. Didn’t get to talk and see what the finished weight was. There were quite a few people there asking questions.


I had an aluminum hull with .125” floor and decks with Tuffcoat and it was not hot on bare feet. Aluminum dissipates heat very quickly. Bare aluminum will get hot but so will any boat in full sun.


----------



## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Bonecracker said:


> Was down in Everglades City this past week fishing and talked to a guide who rented a condo across from the Captains Table where we were staying. He like to talk a lot, but I spent most of my time inspecting his original prototype Sabine skiff (not micro) and was impressed with what I saw. He beat the crap out of it running his Tohatsu jet engine over any and everything on the water but you could see it was a well built hull! Would like to see more pictures of the MICRO PLEASE!


Scott Sommerlatte


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Stevie said:


> Scott Sommerlatte


Good Fisherman.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Color of any skiff will hold heat if it's pigmented off white. Light blues and greens are better. Tans and grays are hotter. Dark greens are horrible and guess what, about 99% of aluminum boats are dark green so the reputation stems from them. 

Even on gelcoat. I've owned/built white deck and off white (put a little black in my white gel coat) composite Skiffs. I adding the slight amount of black in the white to kill glare and it made that composite deck hard to walk bare foot in low wind Texas summer heat. Low wind like the days where your sun glasses keep fogging up.

Go feel different colored gel coat skiffs side by side.

The ones at the show were tan and light gray. If you're worried about heat buy a white, light blue or light green decked skiff. Good thing about aluminum is any wind will cool it off. Kind of like your vehicle radiator.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

The standard built Versatile is 675 lbs. Drafts 6-7" loaded with two depending on anglers weight and loading. Maybe more if you you weigh over 300lbs. 

The standard built Micro is 490 lbs. drafts around 5"-6" loaded (can be under 5" if you're a light weight) depending on anglers weight and loading. 

Proof is in the pictures.


----------



## Dallas Furman (May 13, 2018)

blittle
Thanks for the info.


----------



## Mattlow (Nov 12, 2014)

Dallas Furman said:


> Mattlow,
> I am very interested in a Sabine Versatile. If you would be able to get a true draft with two people and a typical load that would be very helpful.


I ended up talking Brian into letting me and a buddy fish with them Saturday morning before the demo since I already have my deposit down. I was able to get some pictures to show the draft despite 20-25 mph winds. I measured the logos for reference and then took pics of each boat with people in them, in real fishing situations.

The Micro looks to be in the 5" range with 2 guys (170lbs each) fly gear, 6 gallons fuel, yeti 35 filled up.

The Versatile looks like 6.5" with fuel, 3 people, yeti 65, fly gear.


----------



## Blackdog317 (Jun 20, 2015)

Does either skiff have any deadrise at the transom?


----------



## Mattlow (Nov 12, 2014)

Blackdog317 said:


> Does either skiff have any deadrise at the transom?


Both have flat bottoms, The Versatile has a tunnel, Micro non tunnel. If I remember correctly Sabine has plans for a skiff with deadrise.


----------



## Dallas Furman (May 13, 2018)

Mattlow
Good info and good pics. The micro certainly is not out of the question but I am more pointed in the direction of the versatile. I am curious if and how much the tunnel adds to the draft and in opinion is it necessary.(may be a question for blittle) Most likely the majority of the fishing that I will do will be solo or with my wife until I meet some like minded folks after we relocate.(was in seadrift this weekend looking at property)


----------



## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Dallas Furman said:


> Mattlow
> Good info and good pics. The micro certainly is not out of the question but I am more pointed in the direction of the versatile. I am curious if and how much the tunnel adds to the draft and in opinion is it necessary.(may be a question for blittle) Most likely the majority of the fishing that I will do will be solo or with my wife until I meet some like minded folks after we relocate.(was in seadrift this weekend looking at property)


Dallas, most folks who start without a tunnel regret the choice fishing the Tex coast and trade up


----------



## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Tunnel !


----------



## Dallas Furman (May 13, 2018)

I had a tunnel hull on my Pathfinder. (2200T) A 2000# hull that would run in 8" of water trimmed right but it took 15" of water to float it. Other 22' Pathfinders without a tunnel would float in 12". I would think that a zero dead rise would run pretty skinny anyway, rigged right. 
My intent is to be able to access the many marshes from Galvaston to Rockport going from a deep water, so to speak, style of fishing to shallow water sight casting. 
Got the redfish addiction quite a few years ago and now relocating closer to the coast I'll be concentrating on these marshes and a new to me style of fishing. I'm even going to throw a fly rod into the mix. LOL


----------



## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Dallas Furman said:


> I had a tunnel hull on my Pathfinder. (2200T) A 2000# hull that would run in 8" of water trimmed right but it took 15" of water to float it. Other 22' Pathfinders without a tunnel would float in 12". I would think that a zero dead rise would run pretty skinny anyway, rigged right.
> My intent is to be able to access the many marshes from Galvaston to Rockport going from a deep water, so to speak, style of fishing to shallow water sight casting.
> Got the redfish addiction quite a few years ago and now relocating closer to the coast I'll be concentrating on these marshes and a new to me style of fishing. I'm even going to throw a fly rod into the mix. LOL


Fished out of a 16’ flatbottom zero deadrise tunnel with 30 hp pull-start motor. Bare bones, no battery. It poled much skinnier than current maverick hpxt and was used as you describe. Did have sponsons to maintain flotation lost with tunnel thus tricky in reverse, but a sweet compromise. Had less than 5K in it guts and feathers brand new. Floated about as skinny as it would run, which is a Key to avoid spending the night in far backcountry, and more so as you begin such explorations in somewhat blind fashion. You want to get way back in, you will get stuck, you Need to get out. When you decide to trade up, you will find nobody wants a non-tunnel. Best luck


----------



## Dallas Furman (May 13, 2018)

Good point.
I certainly am not arguing any point just my thoughts though I am willing to listen. Was just curious about the draft difference with or without a tunnel. Thinking about it now, the difference is probably negligible on a 650# rig. I can certainly understand the need and or urgency to get out from time to time. 
I'm not a stranger to boats in general having fished Baffin Bay and the LLM for nearly 30 years prior to leaving Kingsville, but I am somewhat a stranger to the super skinny world of a poling skiff.
Thanks for all of the feedback.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

I will say that down here with a smaller boat being able to "stay away" from deep water can be a huge deal. I currently have a HPXT and it will run SHALLOW. I had a 21 Majek Redfish Line for years and this boat will jump up as shallow and will run nearly as shallow as it. With the HPXT rigged right, running across a bar pretty much out of the water is not unrealistic. Sometimes the choice between jumping a small area of shallow water and taking an but whipping staying in deeper water makes all the difference.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

There is no way a tunnel cost a boat 3” of draft, it’s just physics. The average sized poling skiff tunnel might add 1/8”-1/4” draft at most.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

I would say draft is negligible. If the tunnel is 4" tall and the same boat without the tunnel drafts 6", then in theory the tunnel boat should draft less. Rules of hydraulics says that ALL surface area has the same PSI. Not just a two dimensional up or down. You have to bring into consideration the sides of the tunnel being surface area. So a tunnel actually has more surface area than a boat without. As long as the height of the tunnel is less than the draft of the boat without one. Really this is all math at the end of the day. I know people are going to yell at me on this one but why can a catamaran have the same draft as a mone hull?? Or why does X boat with a 12 degree deadrise only draft a inch or two more than one that is dead flat? All about displacement!


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> I would say draft is negligible. If the tunnel is 4" tall and the same boat without the tunnel drafts 6", then in theory the tunnel boat should draft less. Rules of hydraulics says that ALL surface area has the same PSI. Not just a two dimensional up or down. You have to bring into consideration the sides of the tunnel being surface area. So a tunnel actually has more surface area than a boat without. As long as the height of the tunnel is less than the draft of the boat without one. Really this is all math at the end of the day. I know people are going to yell at me on this one but why can a catamaran have the same draft as a mone hull?? Or why does X boat with a 12 degree deadrise only draft a inch or two more than one that is dead flat? All about displacement!


Here is a little info I typed up a while back and saved in case it came up again. I did these calculations when building my aluminum tunnel boat to see how much volume my tunnel was going to remove from my hull and that gave me a number to base the size of sponsons I designed to offset the loss of volume. 


***Tunnel Volume Calculation***

A tunnel that is 3" deep at the transom and slopes down flush with the bottom that is 14" wide and 32" long has about 672 cubic inches of volume. A cubic foot of air is 1728 inches and can float about 62 pounds. 
672\1728 is ~0.38 so multiply 62x.38 and you get 23.56# loss of bouyancy. That is just a rough tunnel size and shape, most tunnels have sloped sides so that is even less volume lost. Disperse that along all that wetted area of a hull and the draft loss is miniscule (like 1/4" with a man on the bow when draft matters most). I can see if it is a 6" deep tunnel that is 48" long and 18" wide like some of the aluminum tunnel hulls but most skiff tunnels I have seen are not very big at all.


----------



## Bruce J (Mar 4, 2018)

Interesting discussion on tunnels and draft. I run an HPXT also which has a fairly large tunnel, and still drafts very little. I've never bothered to measure it because I just don't care that much what the absolute measure is. I know it gets me into virtually any water that I want to get into. That said, I don't care if your boat draws only 3", I bet at some point you will try to pole into 2". It's just what we do!

Every boat is a compromise of many variables, of course, and what's "the best" for one person is unlikely to be the best for another. But if I were going to get a boat to fish really skinny water all day AND don't want/need to cross bigger bays or travel far AND fish only two people, I would look seriously at a Sabine Micro and put a jet on it.


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

As much as we all care about draft, we need to better understand buoyancy. @Smackdaddy53 is correct that it is a function of volume. Floating results from displacement of a volume of water. For something to float, the water displaced must weigh the same as the floating object. If your skiff weighs 1,000 pounds, then you have to displace 1,000 pounds of water to float it. The buoyancy force equals the weight of water displaced, so a 1,000 pound skiff (at rest) will displace 1,000 pounds of water. 1,000 pounds of water is almost exactly 120 gallons. It's that weight / volume displacement that translates directly to the draft of our skiffs. 

If you add a 160 pound angler, you'll increase draft to displace about 20 extra gallons. The tricky part of the calculation is in the actual draft of each skiff. Since our skiffs aren't simple geometries, builders have to determine the volume displacement for the shape of the hull. A skiff with more surface area will draft less at a given weight because every inch of draft is more displaced volume than a narrow skiff.

Mac is exactly right in his thoughts on a tunnel. You're looking at less than 4 gallons of "lost" displacement. If you figure an average poling skiff displaces 140 to 160 gallons of water, you're only "losing" 2.5% to 3% of your total displacement with a tunnel. That's less than 1/4" on a boat that drafts 8 inches.


----------



## Dallas Furman (May 13, 2018)

As far as tunnel vs. non tunnel on my 22', 2002 Pathfinder as compared to another 22' Pathfinder of a similar year model without a tunnel, side by side, measured using a fish stick, was 3" difference. No calculations, just an in the water, side by side measurement.
The intent of my previous post was not to say that a tunnel in any boat would allow for 3" additional draft. The tunnel on my Pathfinder was huge and the hull weighed 2000#. Comparing a light weight poling skiff to a bay boat would not be a fair comparison. I was just curious if there was any discernible difference in draft. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of a tunnel hull, the one on my big boat saved my bacon more than once and certainly helped in running the south shoreline in Baffin.

I have looked at (photos only) the Sabine Micro and think my wife will be more comfortable in a Versatile. Now before everyone lambastes me for including my wife in the equation, I've been married to this woman for 28 years and believe it or not I still kinda like her and enjoy it when she humors me and climbs on the boat with me. LOL.


----------



## Bruce J (Mar 4, 2018)

Brian has named his skiffs well. I think the Versatile would be better for the significant majority of fishermen (and wives). The Micro is for very specialized fishing, but it's a very cool boat for someone whose needs match all the ANDs in my last post.

By the way, we just celebrated our 39th anniversary. My wife loves our Pathfinder 2400, but thinks my HPXT is just too small. She probably wouldn't step foot in the Micro!


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Our tunnel is fairly small and gives up around 35 lbs of displacement. And most people put on hydraulic jackplates so there goes another 35-40 lbs "added to the transom" so to speak.

It's the difference of a 175 lb buddy fishing with you versus a 245 lb buddy. That's the easiest way to describe it to people.

How much draft will you lose? Well as Roy D. Mercer always asks, "how big a boy are ya?" And how big a boy will be on the bow to balance the weight? Fuel? Are are a gear hog? Do you bring enough water and beer to feed a small village?

The gray Versatile pics above is with the rear hatch full of camera gear, fly gear and my wife's stuff. Yeti had 3-4 days of drinks and one small bag of ice. Fuel tank was full as I topped it off and we only ran 3-4 miles.

Skiff has a Radio, 2 speakers and LED light bar also. With a full Seadek kit.

A simple tiller rigged Versatile is a 6"-7" fishing draft skiff. Just is what it is. Measured. With a tape. Not looking over the edge of the skiff. When people say their skiff will pole 3" loaded I laugh. My middle finger is longer than that. Ha

What's even funnier is when they tell me their current skiff gets up in 6"-8" over hard sand. They probably can't trim their motor down over hard sand at that depth. Let alone have enough prop in the water to grab and not cavitate. 

As for needing a tunnel or not around Seadrift call me (281.380.7304) and I'll share a client's name that runs a non-tunnel side console with a jackplate and he fished Seadrift just fine. But don't take my word for it. Call him.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Any great rigged tunnel skiff will run in less water than it'll draft. A great rigged non-tunnel non-jackplate Versatile will run in water that sometimes it can't draft. Over hard sand trimmed out it'll bottom out about what it'll draft in with a 50 Tohatsu. Those motors suck water like none other and we rig our motors high and set them up with good props. 

A tunnel hull Versatile with a jackplate and our three blade will run in less water that it'll draft. But if you run out of water or miss a turn you'll be grounded and can't pole out. 

Best way to describe it is a tunnel with a jackplate is like having a lifted 4x4 Jeep. It'll go places a 2x4 can't but if you ever get stuck. You're stuck. 

There's never been a place my non-tunnel non-jackplate skiff wasn't able to pole or push out even dragging a little. 

And I've ran through some hairy situations during duck season. 

But having this year's demo skiff with a tunnel and jackplate is very calming on the low low tide days fishing and hunting.


----------



## Bruce J (Mar 4, 2018)

I think that running draft vs. poling draft is a really important consideration when choosing a boat. My HPXT runs maybe an inch or two more shallow than it will pole. But in many years of running it, I've only beached it firmly twice, fortunately on sand. Both times we just hopped out of the boat in ankle deep water and it floated just by getting our weight out of it. We pushed it a few feet and could hop back in again. I wouldn't want one of those boats which can run really skinny but then sink down a foot once coming off plane. Those guys are then needing some serious/professional help to get back to floatable water.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

Non tunnel boats have to have some of the lower unit below the water. A properly set up tunnel can run with non of the engine below the hull of the boat. That is assuming the tunnel is properly designed.


----------



## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Now you've talked me out of a Gladesman. Or maybe I get one with a jet drive.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mark H said:


> Now you've talked me out of a Gladesman. Or maybe I get one with a jet drive.


Jets are good at running skinny and great at sucking for the amount of horsepower you give them.


----------



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

I use a non tunnel HB Pro w/micro jack /4 blade and fish every bay in Texas where a slot red drum can swim. I don't like giving up any amount of draft.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

When in doubt, trim it out.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Mark H said:


> Now you've talked me out of a Gladesman. Or maybe I get one with a jet drive.


I enjoyed our demo Micro with the Jet. If it can float it'll get up. They can suck up debris but it is what it is. A pump.

Next season's demo will likely be rigged Jet only (this years had the option of the Tohatsu 35 Jet or Tohatsu 30 prop) and setup for freshwater river fishing and the salt flats. Oars and push pole again.


----------



## ChickoftheSea (Oct 17, 2015)

Mattlow said:


> I have not seen anyone post about this yet. Sabine Skiffs will be at Swan Point Landing and Real Ale Brewery will have some refreshments. Demos afterwards in Little Bay. I talked with Brian and he is bringing a Micro and Versatile tunnel.
> 
> Im getting a tunnel Micro built but still going for another ride.
> www.sabineskiffs.com
> View attachment 28717


Wish I had known about this! Any way to get on a mail list for future events of this nature?


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

ChickoftheSea said:


> Wish I had known about this! Any way to get on a mail list for future events of this nature?


Following Sabine Skiffs Instagram or Facebook page seems to be the easiest. Or check the website for monthly or future "events".


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

sjrobin said:


> I use a non tunnel HB Pro w/micro jack /4 blade and fish every bay in Texas where a slot red drum can swim. I don't like giving up any amount of draft.


Sometimes in the lakes


blittle said:


> I enjoyed our demo Micro with the Jet. If it can float it'll get up. They can suck up debris but it is what it is. A pump.
> 
> Next season's demo will likely be rigged Jet only (this years had the option of the Tohatsu 35 Jet or Tohatsu 30 prop) and setup for freshwater river fishing and the salt flats. Oars and push pole again.


Take the grate off and run a ss impeller. All you need then is a homemade slide hammer to get oysters out and you are good to go. Impeller will chew threw the floating grass no problem!!


----------



## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Jets are good at running skinny and great at sucking for the amount of horsepower you give them.


BT/DT. 1.5 mpg + some “maintenance”


----------



## Bruce J (Mar 4, 2018)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> Take the grate off and run a ss impeller. All you need then is a homemade slide hammer to get oysters out and you are good to go. Impeller will chew threw the floating grass no problem!!


Truth. We couldn't run anywhere with our jet when it had the grate on it as it was constantly clogging up with grass. Took the plate out and it would go anywhere - but do pack the oyster extractor because you will need it at some point.

Jets do suck up the gas, but if you're not running far and it's not a big motor, who cares? I used to have one on an old Johnson 150 powerhead (105 with the jet) and I couldn't keep enough gas in that boat. And they suck for running in any rougher water. But for a smaller motor on something like a Micro, I think a jet would be a blast.


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

All I know is Brian Little is a good dude and we enjoyed chatting with his narrow ass at the Houston fishing show a few years ago. One of the few people I have met that's actually sailed around with Morejohn talking skiffs. Slim is a very capable and innovative boat builder, an OK fisherman and someone that can bring the bantz nearly as well as Smackdaddy..


----------



## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> They put seadeck on them to help but that’s more weight.


The hottest spot on the skiff during tarpon season, from my experience, is a casting platform with grey seadek on it. I swear you could cook an egg on the damn thing. We actually had a long discussion one day (while waiting for poon to roll through) on how to solve the problem of cooling the platform. Everything from piping water through the tubing to ice packs attached to the under side of it. We finally settled on the need to bring a small bucket, large cup to pour water on there when it gets hot. 

So don't assume seadek will be cool on your feet...


----------



## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> A properly set up tunnel can run with non of the engine below the hull of the boat. That is assuming the tunnel is properly designed.


Truth.

I run around all day with my Tohatsu 50 (Foreman prop) jacked this high and never lose water pressure or blow out the prop...


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

I'm surprised the Spear has an elliptical/conical tunnel. I think I remember reading in Morejohn's blog that they did a lot of tunnel testing and found the trapezoidal tunnels to be much more effective. Something about planing area, if I remember right. Perhaps HB has the tunnel design patented? 

Regardless, your Spear is such a cool skiff. I hope to be able to test one someday.


----------



## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I guess you'd have to define "effective". The boat will certainly run skinnier than I have the balls to run it so far. So I'm not sure I'd benefit from any sort of trapezoidal advantage. *lol*


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Take it all with a grain of salt. I'm the last guy to claim any expertise in the area. Just curious and learning! I bet that 50 pushes your skiff nicely! How does it handle turns when you have the motor jacked up?


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

If my sailboat rum soaked memory serves me, Morejohn learned all his tunnel education from his original Cajun rep. Same guy that they called Forrest Gump in that book/movie.  


Well maybe not everything, Chris and I swapped so many skiff stories that week I forgot 90% of them.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

not2shabby said:


> I'm surprised the Spear has an elliptical/conical tunnel. I think I remember reading in Morejohn's blog that they did a lot of tunnel testing and found the trapezoidal tunnels to be much more effective. Something about planing area, if I remember right. Perhaps HB has the tunnel design patented?
> 
> Regardless, your Spear is such a cool skiff. I hope to be able to test one someday.


I doubt a tunnel shape can be patented, only exact dimensions and angles. Majek Redfish Lines had a trapeziod shaped tunnel for over 20 years now.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

EdK13 said:


> All I know is Brian Little is a good dude and we enjoyed chatting with his narrow ass at the Houston fishing show a few years ago. One of the few people I have met that's actually sailed around with Morejohn talking skiffs. Slim is a very capable and innovative boat builder, an OK fisherman and someone that can bring the bantz nearly as well as Smackdaddy..


Thanks whoever you are. 

We do our best to do our best.


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

blittle said:


> Thanks whoever you are.
> 
> We do our best to do our best.


HA.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

Tunnel design has a lot to do with what the designer envisions the hull to run with regarding the engine/prop . A lot of the time after the fact, it is found other set ups work better. A flat hull does not direct water flow. A tunnel (even small) will direct water flow up to the prop allowing the engine to run above the hull if properly designed and matched with the right hp/prop. That is why a 3"-4" tunnel can allow a outboard to run so much higher than a non tunnel boat. They also help on the hole shot obviously but that differs depending on the hull shape.


----------



## blittle (Jun 3, 2012)

Anderson Guide Service said:


> Tunnel design has a lot to do with what the designer envisions the hull to run with regarding the engine/prop . A lot of the time after the fact, it is found other set ups work better. A flat hull does not direct water flow. A tunnel (even small) will direct water flow up to the prop allowing the engine to run above the hull if properly designed and matched with the right hp/prop. That is why a 3"-4" tunnel can allow a outboard to run so much higher than a non tunnel boat. They also help on the hole shot obviously but that differs depending on the hull shape.


Microskiff Tunnel Flow-sophy 101

What I enjoy about tunnel hulls are the infinite ways and opinions to design and set one up.

A great engineering mentor once told me the great thing about being an engineer is you'll never be out of a job. Just subtract or add "1" from or to anything you design or build and you made it more efficient/stronger/cheaper/better/blabla.


----------



## Anderson Guide Service (Feb 17, 2017)

blittle said:


> Microskiff Tunnel Flow-sophy 101
> 
> What I enjoy about tunnel hulls are the infinite ways and opinions to design and set one up.
> 
> A great engineering mentor once told me the great thing about being an engineer is you'll never be out of a job. Just subtract or add "1" from or to anything you design or build and you made it more efficient/stronger/cheaper/better/blabla.



hahaha love it!!!


----------



## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

blittle said:


> If my sailboat rum soaked memory serves me, Morejohn learned all his tunnel education from his original Cajun rep. Same guy that they called Forrest Gump in that book/movie.
> 
> 
> Well maybe not everything, Chris and I swapped so many skiff stories that week I forgot 90% of them.


That would be Jimbo Meador as I had a good chat with MoreJohn about how the tunnel was designed and how HB gave Jimbo a 16 Waterman for helping sell so many of there skiffs in the LA region. I owned his original 2001 tunnel hull 16 WM for over a year before selling to a guy in Texas and would have kept it if did not have the tunnel as I just do not need one where I fish!


----------

