# Cayo vs Beavertail vs East Cape vs Hells Bay vs Maverick



## Austin Bustamante

Lostmen side console with a 60 if you don’t have open water crossings. Stable and skinny. I’m biased though.


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## Cam

From your list, I like that Mosquito. I nearly bought a local one before my wife reminded me we "needed" a boat that can ride four comfortably and fish three. The BT Micro is small and a bit cramped for my liking but I am not a small fellow.

I have never seen the Cayo up close so cannot comment. The ECS offerings are similar to BT IMO. Basically the same boats in capability just which cap you like better.


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## ifsteve

He may be biased by he's not wrong on the Lostman. I have fished on his skiff a bunch and it is a very very stable and skinny boat. And its fine in a bit of chop....not dry but I think for the Jacksonville flats it would be a killer skiff.

Oh and it poles like a dream.


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## E-money

I'm under 7 in a tiller Fury. I know you said side console, but I bet draft won't be much different if at all. Check out my build thread in my signature.


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## vantagefish

How many guys will you be fishing usually?


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## Karlee

Glide owner checking in. I have a suzuki 20 tiller. As far as speed goes with two men and gear I high teens/ low 20s. This boat is tippy, but manageable. It really excels in the draft and dry ride categories. I am very happy with the Glide, but it's not for everyone. Have you concidered the Caimen lite?


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## mcraft173

I live in Jax and fish a glide. Its a great two person low tide boat, it has the needed draft, and is maneuverable back in the creeks. Theres been maybe 1 or 2 instances where I couldnt get to the fish on a low tide. I can also get up on the floods pretty early too. Rides dry in the IC on days you would fish, even if a little sporty. You definitely wont see 30MPH though. I've also fished my buddy's BT Micro with a 30HP - has a little more speed, but it was still just under 30mph and even though the Micro and the Glide are similar boats, the micro feels like it is a a little more boat.

I do wish i had more speed - but - we have so many ramps here, I usually launch where I want to fish, and I focus on the 2 or 3 hours before or after the tide I want to fish in that area. Theres a lot of water to fish within 5 miles of a ramp. Go fast or not, I can never justify running very far during a tide and not fishing.

I think knowing a little more about how you like to fish, we can give you better advice. How many people do you usually fish; do you plan to go cruising or to the sand bar. Are you tempted to run out on good days for tarpon. 

If you want to talk more - send me a PM. Maybe we can meet for a beer at black fly cafe or fish/wet test,


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## tbnolefan

Of the three I would look at Cayo and ECC. I'm just not impressed with the Beavertails I've been on. 

The Cayo 173 and new 180MV would fit the bill. Problem with both is the wait time is going to be significantly longer than Beavertail or ECC.


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## yobata

Str8-Six said:


> I’m debating going tippier and shallower with BT Micro, ECS Caimen or Cayo 173, maybe Glide. Each would be rigged the same, no liner, Suke 30(except for glide), portable tank, no compartments, haven’t decided if side console or tiller. I would like to get close to 30mph and must float in less than 6”.


Add one more to your list of clean, no frills boats: Spears Evergladez
https://www.microskiff.com/threads/the-evergladez.47848/#post-381982


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## T Bone

Str8-Six said:


> Really want some input here on these different ideas I have for my next build. I’m debating going tippier and shallower with BT Micro, ECS Caimen or Cayo 173, maybe Glide. Each would be rigged the same, no liner, Suke 30(except for glide), portable tank, no compartments, haven’t decided if side console or tiller. I would like to get close to 30mph and must float in less than 6”.
> 
> Or going bigger and still pretty shallow with EvoX, Mosquito, or maybe Strike/Lostmen/Fury. Rigged with Suke 60, side console, no liner, no compartments and portable tank. Would like to see upper 30s and float in 7 on these.
> 
> 95% of my fishing will be in Jacksonville which 70% I will be fishing low tide looking for reds. I plan on wet testing all boats before I buy but as you can see I have a lot listed on here so trying to narrow it down. Kinda all over the place. Any input or experience with these skiffs much appreciated.


If you are leaning more towards the smaller, tippier, sub 6" skiff route, check out the Skull Island 16 as well. It is in the same class as the BT Micro and ECS Glide. Ive had one for a few years now and it continues to exceed my expectations.


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## Financekid1

get an old 16 Whip or waterman...then it doesnt have to be tippy and you will be sub 6". Ive seen a lot in the mid 20's. You are just going to beat it up on oyster bars anyway at low tide (I live in St. Augustine).


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## Str8-Six

The biggest problem is there is so many choices nowadays. It’s awesome how spoiled we are. 

I’m just going to answer some of the questions above in the post since I can never figure out quote box. 

I’ve been on a glide and I loved it!! It’s definitely up there on the list. @mcraft173 send me pm definitely down to meet up check out your glide. I mainly fish around 2 hours before/after low tide and flood tides. Usually one other person and the occasional I’ll have me and 2 other people. Caimen lite is definitely on list, I guess I can’t count out skull island or Spear. I usually don’t fish tarpon up here so not that big of a deal. Not interested in Cayo 180mv since dfaft starts at 6”. The old whips are nice but for the money I’d rather buy new EC and get a lifetime warranty. Sorry for all the info and being all over the place. 

If I can get the same draft as tippier boat on bigger skiff Lostman/Evox than I would rather do that.


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## zlenart

I've been on the Cayo 173 and it's fast, silent and easy to pole. The one I was on had a tiller with a 50 tohatsu, and it still had an extremely shallow draft. I would definitely take a look at it.


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## mtoddsolomon

I'm an east cape fan, it's no shocker to anyone on here but I am for a reason. I shopped a lot of boats before pulling the trigger with ECC and I tell you this, if I were to build another skiff it'd be a Caimen lite with the 30 zuke. Graham Hegamyer is selling his Caimen lite right now and it's really badass.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2015-east-cape-caimen-unicorn-edition-28-000.46754/

If you're looking for a bigger skiff that has almost the same draft as those skiffs come on up to Charleston and let me pole you around on my EVOx.


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## EvanHammer

Str8-Six said:


> If I can get the same draft as tippier boat on bigger skiff Lostman/Evox than I would rather do that.


Keep in mind you might get the same static draft but the smaller, lighter boat can be pushed over humps, bars, etc. and even shoved along dragging on a mud bottom while a bigger boat ain't going far once it touches bottom.


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## Flatsaholic

Go test drive a Beavertail Mosquito. You will not want another boat after. I have had mine a little over a year and nothing can compare. Everyone loves it.


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## GullsGoneWild

I've got a Caimen Lite and my BIL has the BT micro. I'd pick the Caimen Lite all day long. I think the micro may pole just a hair easier but it does feel a little cramped. I was told the LITE was designed for a 30HP but when talking to EC I asked about upping the power and got approval for a 40HP. Seeing speeds of 31MPH at WOT by myself and w a tail wind. 28MPH with 2 dudes. Handles big and rough water surprisingly well for its size. I had a 14 gallon permanent fuel tank installed under the front hatch. No sense in building a really beautiful skiff only to ruin the aesthetics by putting in a red fuel tank. View media item 1035View media item 1038View media item 1044View media item 1040


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## Shadowcast

I wet tested the Caimen with Kevin shortly after they came out. Of the ones you listed, it would be tops on my list. I have always loved the Caiman. But....in a bigger ride, I'm really impressed by the EVOx. I also spent some time with Coty Garrett's Spear Glades X (I think) and was really impressed.


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## Dawhoo

If someone ever needed a population to do research on the topic of tribalism... I truly believe microskiffers would be the ideal group.


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## southern tail charters

Yeah...you really should look at my boat for sale.


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## Bonecracker

You would be surprised how big the Spear Boatworks EvergladeZ top deck is not to mention that a Tohatsu 30hp tiller easily pushed this skiff mid to high 20's with 2 guys! Oh ya, my favorite poling skiff so do yourself a favor and talk to Harry!


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## crboggs

I have fished and poled both the Cayo 173 and Spear Glades X.

The 173 has more frills but as a pure fishing platform the Glades X is my preference by far.


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## ifsteve

Purely a guess but I suspect the Spear boat is a tad more than a Cayo. But I would love to have one of Harry's boats!!


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## crboggs

ifsteve said:


> Purely a guess but I suspect the Spear boat is a tad more than a Cayo. But I would love to have one of Harry's boats!!


Nope. The Glades X I've been on would be cheaper than the typical 173.

Depends on what you want...my wife and daughters would prefer the 173 in a direct comparison but all I want is a purpose built, focused fishing vessel...that's the Glades X.

I missed the window on getting my own Glades X at that price. No idea what Spear is charging for the EvergladeZ now.


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## yobata

ifsteve said:


> Purely a guess but I suspect the Spear boat is a tad more than a Cayo. But I would love to have one of Harry's boats!!


Is the standard motor for the 173 Cayo now a 60hp??


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## crboggs

yobata said:


> Is the standard motor for the 173 Cayo now a 60hp??


Good point...we were running the Glades X with a 30HP two stroke tiller. Perfect.


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## jmrodandgun

yobata said:


> Is the standard motor for the 173 Cayo now a 60hp??


Not sure what you mean by standard but a 60 hp would the absolute max. Base package is a 30 hp.


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## prinjm6

Str8-Six said:


> The biggest problem is there is so many choices nowadays. It’s awesome how spoiled we are.
> 
> I’m just going to answer some of the questions above in the post since I can never figure out quote box.
> 
> I’ve been on a glide and I loved it!! It’s definitely up there on the list. @mcraft173 send me pm definitely down to meet up check out your glide. I mainly fish around 2 hours before/after low tide and flood tides. Usually one other person and the occasional I’ll have me and 2 other people. Caimen lite is definitely on list, I guess I can’t count out skull island or Spear. I usually don’t fish tarpon up here so not that big of a deal. Not interested in Cayo 180mv since dfaft starts at 6”. The old whips are nice but for the money I’d rather buy new EC and get a lifetime warranty. Sorry for all the info and being all over the place.
> 
> If I can get the same draft as tippier boat on bigger skiff Lostman/Evox than I would rather do that.



I can get you out on my Evo X once I take delivery at end of month. I owned a Lostmen before that now owned by Andrew at black fly. Lostmen is a barge and poles great skinny, but as nasty as the ICW and St. John's get you would be best to look at the Fury/Evo X just offers more for our area imo.


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## Stevie

Dawhoo said:


> If someone ever needed a population to do research on the topic of tribalism... I truly believe microskiffers would be the ideal group.


Tribalism is BADAZZ !!!


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## Cam

I am guessing unless you fished each of these one right after the other, you wouldn't notice much difference in capability. I believe at this level this thread is basically splitting hairs and pretty much down to personal preference. All part of the fun though.


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## Stevie

I had a Caimen and liked it for many reasons. I would not buy a sponson boat again.


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## Str8-Six

prinjm6 said:


> I can get you out on my Evo X once I take delivery at end of month. I owned a Lostmen before that now owned by Andrew at black fly. Lostmen is a barge and poles great skinny, but as nasty as the ICW and St. John's get you would be best to look at the Fury/Evo X just offers more for our area imo.


Yes to this!! I would really appreciate it.


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## Str8-Six

Leaning towards Evox.. or something similar if I can get same draft which I should be able too. Nice thing is, I would still be able to fish two if I wanted to comfortably which I do now. Not cutting out others, that just what I’m leaning towards.

I emailed Cayo on website and on instagram for price quote and no response. Anyone know if prices went up, and if so by how much?

I do like idea of mosquito as well, anyone running one super lite, with no liner, side console or tiller? Not sure if it is going to beat draft of Evox but it would save me some $$$.


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## Str8-Six

GullsGoneWild said:


> I've got a Caimen Lite and my BIL has the BT micro. I'd pick the Caimen Lite all day long. I think the micro may pole just a hair easier but it does feel a little cramped. I was told the LITE was designed for a 30HP but when talking to EC I asked about upping the power and got approval for a 40HP. Seeing speeds of 31MPH at WOT by myself and w a tail wind. 28MPH with 2 dudes. Handles big and rough water surprisingly well for its size. I had a 14 gallon permanent fuel tank installed under the front hatch. No sense in building a really beautiful skiff only to ruin the aesthetics by putting in a red fuel tank. View media item 1035View media item 1038View media item 1044View media item 1040


What’s the estimated draft with two onboard?


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## jsnipes

Been on a GladesX and Cayo - both are actually quite similarly priced (although it's been almost a year since I priced them both out). Finish on the Cayo is a LOT nicer than the GladesX. GladesX felt a little bigger to me and I think is skinnier.


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## jmrodandgun

Loaded center console Cayo 173 with a 50 Tohatsu, 15 gallons of fuel, a jump seat full of ice and beer, fly gear, and two anglers will draw about 7 inches of water. Maybe a C-hair less. Some may call it 6 1/2 but whatever. 

Cool thing about the 173 is it's happy to run all day at 4500 RPM while doing about 29-30 MPH


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## fishtrapper

Str8-Six said:


> Really want some input here on these different ideas I have for my next build. I’m debating going tippier and shallower with BT Micro, ECS Caimen or Cayo 173, maybe Glide. Each would be rigged the same, no liner, Suke 30(except for glide), portable tank, no compartments, haven’t decided if side console or tiller. I would like to get close to 30mph and must float in less than 6”.
> 
> Or going bigger and still pretty shallow with EvoX, Mosquito, or maybe Strike/Lostmen/Fury. Rigged with Suke 60, side console, no liner, no compartments and portable tank. Would like to see upper 30s and float in 7 on these.
> 
> 95% of my fishing will be in Jacksonville which 70% I will be fishing low tide looking for reds. I plan on wet testing all boats before I buy but as you can see I have a lot listed on here so trying to narrow it down. Kinda all over the place. Any input or experience with these skiffs much appreciated.



I used to own a caimen......totally loved the caimen and wish I still owned it. I don't think I have met a person who fished on a caimen that had anything bad to say about it, other than the occasional "I wish it was a little bigger". I fished mine with 2-3 people mostly and draft was very shallow. Mine had a jackplate nontunnel and I ran with the jackplate all the way up almost all the time. I never had any water pressure or overheating issues. The boat ran almost scary skinny and would jump up super shallow. I had a 50 2 stroke no linger side console and a super cupped prop speeds I was seeing were low to mid 30s if I was by myself or with 2 people. I ran it once with a speed prop by myself and was at 40mph but kept the cupped prop because I could run and get up so shallow with it. Caimen runs open water great for how small the boat is with the spray rails and is very very very dry.

If you are looking for a little more room for more people I would look hard at the X now. I have fished on the X in the lagoon and in Louisiana and love the X. If you have a chance to fish one where it is very shallow I think you will be amazed with how shallow it floats. I would guess the X floats shallower than most of the smaller boats you are looking at. X is a very stable fishing platform as well and it is not tippy at all. X also can run some very big water with the higher sides and large spray rails.


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## Zika

Unless they've changed I don't believe the Mosquito is available without a liner. You'd need to check with Liz to verify. I am running a 2017 model and it's been everything I expected and more. I do have a side console and like to keep things bare bones, with the exception of a xi5 trolling motor and battery. With me and a 105-pound Rottweiler, gear, soft cooler with ice and 2/3 tank of fuel, I was able to pole through 6 inches of water during negative low tides recently. Thought I was going to get stuck but we slid right through. I'm very happy with my Mosquito.


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## Str8-Six

Thanks @fishtrapper

@Zika, that’s impressive, aren’t you running a 60 merc or 60 Suke right? Seriously no option for no-liner but they do customizations on everything else lol?

I’m going to talk to Kevin tomorrow and then maybe plan a stop by the shop. Thinking supper lite Evox with 30hp Suke. No liner, removable tank, no compartments. 

Anyone running an Evox or mosquito with a 30hp??


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## Fritz

I'm not sure you can get an Evo X without a liner, it's got a pair of stringers that would be quite awkward. Let us know what Kevin tells you. They sold ten to a lodge in the Seychelles and I think those boats had 40 tillers, have not heard how they performed or how stripped down they may or may not have been, would love to though so please ask and report back.


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## crboggs

jsnipes said:


> Been on a GladesX and Cayo - both are actually quite similarly priced (although it's been almost a year since I priced them both out). Finish on the Cayo is a LOT nicer than the GladesX. GladesX felt a little bigger to me and I think is skinnier.


Yup...mirrors my experience. The finish on the 173 was better than the Glades X but the Glades X was a better fishing platform. If the EvergladeZ model can match fit and finish while maintaining the Glades X fishing profile...look out...


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## Zika

Haven't heard about liner-less Mosquitos. You'd have to check with Beavertail.

And yes, I have a 60 Mercury EFI four-stroke for power. Good match.


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## GullsGoneWild

Str8-Six said:


> What’s the estimated draft with two onboard?


never taken the time to truly measure the draft but I'd say sub 7" all day long and probably closer to 6". We have a lot of mud on the upper TX coast, some sticky some pluff, but I can push through most of it with ease even in about 5" of water. I fished the same area on Thanksgiving eve and Thanksgiving and you could see the boat trail in the mud that we left the day before when we were at the end of an outgoing tide.


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## manny2376

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2001-hells-bay-waterman-16.48508/

My $0.02... just buy this. Realistically it doesn’t get much better. Draft, pole-ability, ride, fishing platform, etc... 

All the other skiffs you’ve mentioned are basically just copies of this anyways. Plus, you save some cash upfront and can sell for minimal to no loss later (you might even make money on this skiff... crazy but true). I know you mentioned you wanted new, but you’re gonna killed on depreciation buying a new skiff set up so specific /barebones as you want. This specific waterman is already barebones, no liner and it’s pretty much the standard all the other skiffs you mentioned are designed to.


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## skinnywater3

EVO floating high w/ 3 anglers....


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## mtoddsolomon

My EVOx in the Keys with 3 on board, lots of beer, too much tackle, full tank of fuel and a 60hp zuke.


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## yobata

skinnywater3 said:


> EVO floating high w/ 3 anglers....


If you become an EVO owner, are those space boots required or optional?


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## paint it black

Of the skiffs mentioned, I like the Caimen. It's one of the better poling skiffs I've fished, for sure. I think performance wise, it's far superior to the old school waterman 16. The waterman 16 is a nice skiff because it's place in the world of poling skiffs, one of the first true micros on the market. However, I think a lot has advanced since it's inception. I love the way the 18 waterman poles, but the 16 not so much. It kind of crab walks and doesn't really track well in windy conditions. I was surprised how light and easy the Caimen poles, as well as tracks. When it comes to maneuverability and shallow water performance, for fishing the super shallow backwaters of the Everglades, I'd put the Caimen close to the top of the list of my preferred skiffs. 

I can't speak for the other two skiffs you mentioned, as I haven't fished a Mosquito or Cayo.


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## Str8-Six

That waterman looks nice but the pictures that Kevin sent me of the X sitting empty looks like it is floating pretty high. Waterman looks to be sitting a little lower but hard to tell from the pictures. Not looking to sell, this is going to be a long term purchase. After owning my first skiff I now realize what I need in regards to setup for 90% of ffing/fishing I do. 

Thanks PIB. I know you have a lot of experience on many different skiffs. 

I can’t believe we have 3 pages and still no insults, banter or trash talking lol. That has to be some kind of record. It’s kinda nice. 

Going to plan a trip to ECS first and then Cayo/spear/beavertail. I have paternity leave starting February for 6 months so I’ll have plenty of time to do my homework.


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## mtoddsolomon

6 months of paternity leave? are y'all hiring?


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## Str8-Six

mtoddsolomon said:


> 6 months of paternity leave? are y'all hiring?


Yeah it’s pretty sweet. 6 months is almost enough to get a random woman pregnant lol.

I’m stenciled in for next Friday to test the EvoX out in Orlando.


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## Str8-Six

Anyone have a mosquito I can hop on in the Jax area? Will pole you around and shoot you some $$.

Trying to save on the trips if possible.


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## coconutgroves

Str8-Six said:


> Anyone have a mosquito I can hop on in the Jax area? Will pole you around and shoot you some $$.
> 
> Trying to save on the trips if possible.


Reach out to Liz - she can possibly put you in touch with someone in that area.

@Zika - why did you go with the Mercury 60 over the Zuke, Yamaha or E-Tec? Curious since I am considering a Mosquito but haven't settled on what engine. I was leaning Zuke.


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## Zika

I buy American products whenever possible and I wasn't too impressed with the Suzuki hole shot when I tested the skiff. I had been running E-TECs on previous boats and was ready for a change. Have been happy with the Mercury performance so far. Great acceleration and power throughout the range, quiet and sips fuel.


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## Fritz

That's admirable Zika, but are you sure Merc is building that motor in the U.S. or even North America (U.S., Canada & Mexico)?

It looks like they have an assembly plant for the 40 - 50 - 60 hp line in Suzhou, China.

http://www.marineenginedigest.com/profiles/mercury/mercury-chinese-outboards.htm

Some more random trolling of the internet seemed to confirm the 30 hp and under Mercs are made in Japan by Tohatsu and the 40 - 60 hp are made in China.


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## Str8-Six

coconutgroves said:


> Reach out to Liz - she can possibly put you in touch with someone in that area.
> 
> @Zika - why did you go with the Mercury 60 over the Zuke, Yamaha or E-Tec? Curious since I am considering a Mosquito but haven't settled on what engine. I was leaning Zuke.


I did, confirmed no-liner is not an option, don’t think it would make much of a difference anyways but was curious. Been in contact with her for a while, both her and Kevin from ECS have been very responsive and helpful. If I can’t find someone up here then I’ll have to make a trip over there.
Still haven’t heard from Cayo. Will call on Monday, since I heard that’s the best way to get a hold of JB. After I see all of those I will see how I feel about going to see the Evergladez. I have a feeling I might fall in love with Evox and not look back.


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## Zika

Fritz said:


> That's admirable Zika, but are you sure Merc is building that motor in the U.S. or even North America (U.S., Canada & Mexico)?
> 
> It looks like they have an assembly plant for the 40 - 50 - 60 hp line in Suzhou, China.
> 
> http://www.marineenginedigest.com/profiles/mercury/mercury-chinese-outboards.htm
> 
> Some more random trolling of the internet seemed to confirm the 30 hp and under Mercs are made in Japan by Tohatsu and the 40 - 60 hp are made in China.


Checked with my source at Mercury HQ in Fond du Lac and my engine was built in China per stringent guidelines and quality control. All outboards above 60-hp are manufactured in the U.S.
Mercury is still an American company and the profits help support more jobs and the economy in this country.


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## mtoddsolomon

Str8-Six said:


> I did, confirmed no-liner is not an option, don’t think it would make much of a difference anyways but was curious. Been in contact with her for a while, both her and Kevin from ECS have been very responsive and helpful. If I can’t find someone up here then I’ll have to make a trip over there.
> Still haven’t heard from Cayo. Will call on Monday, since I heard that’s the best way to get a hold of JB. After I see all of those I will see how I feel about going to see the Evergladez. I have a feeling I might fall in love with Evox and not look back.


Oh you will fall in love with it. Just saying go look at the other boats first because otherwise you won’t give them a fair shot


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## prinjm6

Str8-Six said:


> I did, confirmed no-liner is not an option, don’t think it would make much of a difference anyways but was curious. Been in contact with her for a while, both her and Kevin from ECS have been very responsive and helpful. If I can’t find someone up here then I’ll have to make a trip over there.
> Still haven’t heard from Cayo. Will call on Monday, since I heard that’s the best way to get a hold of JB. After I see all of those I will see how I feel about going to see the Evergladez. I have a feeling I might fall in love with Evox and not look back.



FWIW I could never get any emails/calls from Cayo either when doing my due diligence on my next skiff purchase. Came to the conclusion that if someone is to busy to take my money he will be to busy to answer question/warranty work after he has my money. HB are great skiffs fished in a Guide for yrs but to me ECC offered the best all around deal. Kevin took care of me and the new owner of my Lostmen re wiring it, touching up gel coat etc. You'll see my X at the ECC shop when you go down.


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## Fritz

I'm a big fan of East Cape and HB boats, but I wouldn't write Cayo off just because it's hard to contact JB. There are a lot of people on this forum very happy with his work and I've not heard anything bad about him or his boats, though I have heard his responses can be slow some times. His backlog kinda speaks for itself and Cayo might be a 'best bang for the buck' kind of boat... if you can stand the wait.

That said, I'd take an Evo x over anything else on the market right now, just the right boat for me.


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## Backcountry 16

Pretty sure bay st got a caimen and he must like it because he changed boats more than I did under wear before he got that thing.;-)


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## Austin Bustamante

Backcountry 16 said:


> Pretty sure bay st got a caimen and he must like it because he changed boats more than I did under wear before he got that thing.;-)


It’s a sweet skiff too


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## Cam

Zika said:


> All outboards above 60-hp are manufactured in the U.S.
> Mercury is still an American company and the profits help support more jobs and the economy in this country.


I believe you mean assembled. Almost everything is manufactured overseas. I see your larger point though. Unfortunately the economy is now global so there are very few truly American manufacturing companies. Even when they truly build here most store their revenues overseas to dodge taxes.

Sorry for the OT.


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## fjmaverick

Cam said:


> I believe you mean assembled. Almost everything is manufactured overseas. I see your larger point though. Unfortunately the economy is now global so there are very few truly American manufacturing companies. Even when they truly build here most store their revenues overseas to dodge taxes.
> 
> Sorry for the OT.


*Mercury Manufacturing Locations*
Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, USA
Juárez, Mexico
Komagane, Japan (TMC joint venture)
Petit-Rechain, Belgium
St. Cloud, Florida, USA
Suzhou, China


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## Caleb.Esparza

I'm slightly biased being a happy Cayo owner myself, but all the options listed above are great. Although I wouldn't put the evoX in the same category strictly based on dimensions.. I did my homework for quite some time before making the decision to go with a Cayo, but I really like Harry's skiffs also. I just felt the bang for the buck was better, and the quality of ride were a little better the route I went. 

With that said, rig it like the designer intended and any of them can be a hell of a fishing platform. In my opinion, the Cayo and Spear glades x/z shine as a linerless, lightweight tiller skiff with sub 40hp. Start adding consoles, trolling motors, kegerators, and all the other bells and whistles people like to cram into a narrow 17' skiff and you quickly lose the ability to pole through anything and fish where the bigger skiffs could only dream of going.


----------



## Str8-Six

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I'm slightly biased being a happy Cayo owner myself, but all the options listed above are great. Although I wouldn't put the evoX in the same category strictly based on dimensions.. I did my homework for quite some time before making the decision to go with a Cayo, but I really like Harry's skiffs also. I just felt the bang for the buck was better, and the quality of ride were a little better the route I went.
> 
> With that said, rig it like the designer intended and any of them can be a hell of a fishing platform. In my opinion, the Cayo and Spear glades x/z shine as a linerless, lightweight tiller skiff with sub 40hp. Start adding consoles, trolling motors, kegerators, and all the other bells and whistles people like to cram into a narrow 17' skiff and you quickly lose the ability to pole through anything and fish where the bigger skiffs could only dream of going.


If I went with Cayo I would do same setup but add a side console. It’s only like 1k more. 
Looks like Cayo prices were updated and there automated build tool works now. I think prices went up about 2k.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

I have probably one of the lighter 173's built as I went no liner, 30hp tiller and no additional electronics. So I routinely see 32-33mph as per handheld GPS running solo in a good sea state, and 28-30mph with a passenger running the stock prop.

I had JB close my front and rear bulkheads and install permanent fuel forward which was worth every penny as far as extended range and additional noise dampening go, Not to mention my hatches are dry and you could literally fit a human plus safety gear inside my front hatch.

I've also spent quite a bit of time crossing open stretches of gulf ranging from 8-18 miles at a stretch just to get to the fishing grounds so I'd say I have a good bit of experience running a micro in various conditions. Barring some kind of crazy life event I plan on never parting with this hull. Only adding a second/larger skiff to the quiver someday down the road.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

Str8-Six said:


> If I went with Cayo I would do same setup but add a side console. It’s only like 1k more.
> Looks like Cayo prices were updated and there automated build tool works now. I think prices went up about 2k.


The price difference between side console and tiller was a non issue, I just have a personal dislike when it comes to being forced to sit down low and hunch over a side console all day on long runs. I love the open cockpit and clean layout, but there's something to be said for being able to stand up and navigate a following sea, and absorb shock with your knees when it gets sporty out there.


----------



## Bonecracker

One thing that y'all need to understand about Spear Boatworks is that Harry does NOT build a skiff with the perfect finished qualities of the big name skiff builders! His fit and finish is good but not close to ECS, Beavertail, HB or Maverick! In other words he builds a skiffs for function and function only and that's what I like about his boats. The simplicity of his rod racks/holders, coffin boxes with simple drains, and lack of hatches with fancy drains make for a very ulatarian type skiff. His EvergladeX & Z are poling machines and if that's what you want, then that's what you get!! Side note: I do not own one of his skiffs but have seen lots of them in different stages of progress along with a few joy rides on brand new skiffs and I love his hull designs!


----------



## Austin Bustamante

I have a lostmen for sale if you are looking for something right now. It’s floats super skinny for the floods!


----------



## Str8-Six

Caleb.Esparza said:


> The price difference between side console and tiller was a non issue, I just have a personal dislike when it comes to being forced to sit down low and hunch over a side console all day on long runs. I love the open cockpit and clean layout, but there's something to be said for being able to stand up and navigate a following sea, and absorb shock with your knees when it gets sporty out there.


Thanks for the good info on your setup and performance numbers. Low thirties for 30hp is impressive. Reason why I’m leaning towards side console is because of back issues or else I would prefer tiller.


----------



## Zika

Configurations are a matter of personal preference. I had a tiller on my BT Micro and really tired of it on long runs. Went with the side console on the Mosquito and it has worked out well. I'm 6' 3" but am still able to stand and drive if needed. If I had to do it over (or replace the helm in the future), I would go with a tilt helm but it hasn't been a major detriment so far. The side console really opens up the cockpit and I carry a RTIC soft cooler which sits in front of the console and takes up little room or adds much weight. 

The tiller is fun to drive in tight creeks, but my back, shoulders and butt appreciate my side console more.


----------



## Str8-Six

abgautier said:


> I have a lostmen for sale if you are looking for something right now. It’s floats super skinny for the floods!


I saw that! Looks sweet, if it is still available once I get to test more skiffs I might be interested. Kinda in the begginning stages starting with Evox next Friday. Might see other ECS models depending on how X feels.


----------



## Eppelsheimerra

I have a cayo MV180 on order for this march and JB has been easy to talk to and is more the willing to go the extra mile for you (I am located in Charleston). I wouldn't try to email him or fill out his form but call him at the shop 727-444-0655. Someone always answer and JB will usually come to the phone unless he is with a customer. Once I gave him my deposit he has been very quick with responses to any of my texts. I am not sure what the wait on a 173 is but the 180 was 10 months and the 180MV was 5 months. I think he has raised prices since nov of this year due how busy he has been. Def dont give up on cayo bc the finish product will not disappoint you as well as the price tag compared to others.


----------



## yobata

Eppelsheimerra said:


> I have a cayo MV180 on order for this march and JB has been easy to talk to and is more the willing to go the extra mile for you (I am located in Charleston). I wouldn't try to email him or fill out his form but call him at the shop 727-444-0655. Someone always answer and JB will usually come to the phone unless he is with a customer. Once I gave him my deposit he has been very quick with responses to any of my texts. I am not sure what the wait on a 173 is but the 180 was 10 months and the 180MV was 5 months. I think he has raised prices since nov of this year due how busy he has been. Def dont give up on cayo bc the finish product will not disappoint you as well as the price tag compared to others.


what the difference between the 180 and the 180MV?


----------



## T Bone

yobata said:


> what the difference between the 180 and the 180MV?


I believe deadrise is the main difference. It is like the EVO vs EVOx


----------



## jmrodandgun

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I just have a personal dislike when it comes to being forced to sit down low and hunch over a side console all day on long runs.


Plus you have to sit shoulder to shoulder with your passenger. Sometimes that can be gross.

What's your draft fully loaded? I'm right around 7 inches with two dudes, fly gear, 15 gallons of fuel, and booze. Mine is pretty heavy with the full liner, center console, and bunch of extra shit like lean bars and a micro power pole.


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## zlenart

T Bone said:


> I believe deadrise is the main difference. It is like the East Cape's EVO vs EVOx


Yeah it is mainly deadrise, but he did change quite a few other things to keep the speed up, and reduce draft. It has the same sharp entry though.


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## Eppelsheimerra

The 180 has a 10 degree deadrise. The MV180 has a 4.5 degree deadrise as well as he added pole strakes. Those are the main differences.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

jmrodandgun said:


> Plus you have to sit shoulder to shoulder with your passenger. Sometimes that can be gross.
> 
> What's your draft fully loaded? I'm right around 7 inches with two dudes, fly gear, 15 gallons of fuel, and booze. Mine is pretty heavy with the full liner, center console, and bunch of extra shit like lean bars and a micro power pole.



I've never really measured because I've always been able to get into the places I wanted to go, but I guess I'd have to say an honest to god 6" all day long regardless of bottom type. I poled through some stuff this morning that was 4" if it was anything but who really knows haha. I can pretty much always sneak up on redfish that are crawling around with their eyeballs out of the water so what more do I really need?


----------



## Str8-Six

I had interest in Cayo a lot more when the 173 and 180 started at 16,999 and 27,999 respectively, I thought that was pretty fair and definitely best bang for buck. Now they are starting at 18,999 and 32,999. The 173 price jump is not that bad and I still think it’s relatively fair. They bumped up the 180 by 5k, and it now starts higher than the BT strike which starts at 31k... would you pay more for Cayo than Beavertail? I’ll leave that up to you decide. But I think they definitely went a little to high to quick.


----------



## LowHydrogen

Bonecracker said:


> One thing that y'all need to understand about Spear Boatworks is that Harry does NOT build a skiff with the perfect finished qualities of the big name skiff builders! His fit and finish is good but not close to ECS, Beavertail, HB or Maverick! In other words he builds a skiffs for function and function only and that's what I like about his boats. The simplicity of his rod racks/holders, coffin boxes with simple drains, and lack of hatches with fancy drains make for a very ulatarian type skiff. His EvergladeX & Z are poling machines and if that's what you want, then that's what you get!! Side note: I do not own one of his skiffs but have seen lots of them in different stages of progress along with a few joy rides on brand new skiffs and I love his hull designs!


This is the LTG, this boat handles nasty water like a champ, and poles effortlessly. The Glade Z/X will both get shallower.... Hard to see but water level is to the top of the writing on the bottle label.


----------



## Str8-Six

LowHydrogen said:


> This is the LTG, this boat handles nasty water like a champ, and poles effortlessly. The Glade Z/X will both get shallower.... Hard to see but water level is to the top of the writing on the bottle label.
> View attachment 19988
> View attachment 19989





LowHydrogen said:


> This is the LTG, this boat handles nasty water like a champ, and poles effortlessly. The Glade Z/X will both get shallower.... Hard to see but water level is to the top of the writing on the bottle label.
> View attachment 19988
> View attachment 19989


Dang. Is that empty or with two people?


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## LowHydrogen

Str8-Six said:


> Dang. Is that empty or with two people?


Empty. Well, no people but not exactly empty. Boat gains close to an 1-1.5" with 2 big guys and gear. The boat had fully loaded 55qt cooler (guessing 80ish? lbs), 16 gal of fuel, 6 fly rods (weigh nothing but people feel the need to include that info so I will too lol), paddle, safety stuff, 4 life jackets, beachside anchor (20lb), 3 large plastic totes in the stern with fly boxes, rain gear, towels, etc etc.. When I got back in the boat to pole away the boat didn't feel any drag or leave any line in the sand which is usually the first indicator I'm getting too shallow. I can usually see a line in the sand behind the boat before I start feeling it dragging bottom.


----------



## zlenart

Str8-Six said:


> I had interest in Cayo a lot more when the 173 and 180 started at 16,999 and 27,999 respectively, I thought that was pretty fair and definitely best bang for buck. Now they are starting at 18,999 and 32,999. The 173 price jump is not that bad and I still think it’s relatively fair. They bumped up the 180 by 5k, and it now starts higher than the BT strike which starts at 31k... would you pay more for Cayo than Beavertail? I’ll leave that up to you decide. But I think they definitely went a little to high to quick.


I'm definitely biased because my 180 is being delivered soon, but can't blaming him for charging more if people will pay it. He's got a ton of boats in line right now, and I know beavertail has been around longer, but I'm pretty sure they don't vacuum bag. 

I do agree that it was a very fast price increase though.


----------



## yobata

zlenart said:


> I'm definitely biased because my 180 is being delivered soon, but can't blaming him for charging more if people will pay it. He's got a ton of boats in line right now, and I know beavertail has been around longer, but I'm pretty sure they don't vacuum bag.
> 
> I do agree that it was a very fast price increase though.


Vacuum bagging doesn't always mean "best." A skilled worker can make a great boat hand laying, and a crappy worker can make a shit boat with vacuum bags. It's all about who you hire to work in your shop at the time


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## ifsteve

yobata said:


> Vacuum bagging doesn't always mean "best." A skilled worker can make a great boat hand laying, and a crappy worker can make a shit boat with vacuum bags. It's all about who you hire to work in your shop at the time


Spot on. However, a vacuum bagged boat done by a quality worker will weigh less than a hand laid boat done by a quality worker. Ask yourself this question. If vacuum bagging didn't offer some real advantages why would a builder choose to do that?


----------



## yobata

ifsteve said:


> Spot on. However, a vacuum bagged boat done by a quality worker will weigh less than a hand laid boat done by a quality worker. Ask yourself this question. If vacuum bagging didn't offer some real advantages why would a builder choose to do that?


I agree that there are some advantages, Chris M also described how it helped at his shop on his blog. But besides making the boat a bit lighter, it is also a faster process and therefore cheaper to bag laminates. I think a shop's highest expense is almost always the labor hours


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## jonny

Having owned a lot of boats from most of the top builders in the last twenty years. One thing that you need to take into consideration is fishing alone. Especially in a small HP situation. Some of the micros are best fished with two people. There is no replacement for displacement. And if you have one of these newer cutaway sharp entry hulls. You may be drafting a lot more if front than in the rear when solo on the deck. Not a issue when you have a 250 pound motor. But when you weigh more than your motor it can be a issue. Don't believe me check the web and YouTube. You will see spray rails a inch or two above the water. You gotta decide are you buying a boat for a nice comfy 15 minute ride. Or the three hours you are gonna be fishing.


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## Str8-Six

prinjm6 said:


> I can get you out on my Evo X once I take delivery at end of month. I owned a Lostmen before that now owned by Andrew at black fly. Lostmen is a barge and poles great skinny, but as nasty as the ICW and St. John's get you would be best to look at the Fury/Evo X just offers more for our area imo.


I think I saw you sled on IG, looks amazing. Any updates/thoughts on it so far? I know it’s been cold so not sure how much you’ve been out.


----------



## prinjm6

Str8-Six said:


> I think I saw you sled on IG, looks amazing. Any updates/thoughts on it so far? I know it’s been cold so not sure how much you’ve been out.



Yes, Kevin took it to the Shallow water Expo in Charleston before dropping it off to me on the way back to Orlando Sunday. Ended up fishing it Monday and it's everything I anticipated it to be and more. Should be done with break in period Saturday so I'll get to really see how she performs.


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## Fishshoot

Str8-Six said:


> I had interest in Cayo a lot more when the 173 and 180 started at 16,999 and 27,999 respectively, I thought that was pretty fair and definitely best bang for buck. Now they are starting at 18,999 and 32,999. The 173 price jump is not that bad and I still think it’s relatively fair. They bumped up the 180 by 5k, and it now starts higher than the BT strike which starts at 31k... would you pay more for Cayo than Beavertail? I’ll leave that up to you decide. But I think they definitely went a little to high to quick.


I would pay more for a cayo than a beavertail


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## zlenart

Fishshoot said:


> I would pay more for a cayo than a beavertail


I don’t have any experience with beavertail but after picking up my 180 and running it across Tampa bay and back yesterday in some terrible weather, I can say the Cayo performance and fit/finish is definitely much more than what he charges for them.


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## Str8-Six

Sorry I should refrase my last statement, not saying price is too high, price does seem very fair and JB is building an amazing product. Personally for the type of fishing I do and the money... it makes more sense to fork over a couple grand more and get an Evox. More versatile design... and it’s an Eastcape.

I’m also adding Heron Micro to the top of the short list. Ankona customer service is top notch and I am happy with my current Ankona skiff. Also thinking I might just keep current skiff and tweak her a bit since she is paid off. A lot is up in the air since my Wife is due in 3 weeks with our first child and in process of starting my own business, while working full time. As you can imagine that takes up the majority of my free time. For the most part I haven’t been able to even take my current rig out so it doesn’t make much sense to be thinking about getting a new one right now.


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## zmgsvt

Str8-Six said:


> and it’s an Eastcape.


Funny, that was the biggest drawback of the Evo for me.


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## mtoddsolomon

zmgsvt said:


> Funny, that was the biggest drawback of the Evo for me.


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## prinjm6

zmgsvt said:


> Funny, that was the biggest drawback of the Evo for me.


Sounds like a personal problem!


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## zmgsvt

mtoddsolomon said:


>


Sorry, wasn't trying to insult the head of the fan boys. Just spent quite a bit of tarpon season on a very custom, brand new Vantage that has been back to the shop several times and has several things that are simply unacceptable for a $65k skiff. I know all companies put out a lemon but this one in particular has simply swayed my opinion of ECC. So, proceed to tell me how wrong I am and defend your manufacturer but I've seen it first hand, creaking hatches and all.


----------



## Fishshoot

Ah the great skiff wars!! I am probably one of the least experienced on skiffs on here but I have seen issues first hand on every skiff I’ve been on. That includes east cape, hell’s bay (current owners), chittum(early hulls), and maverick. The only skiff I’ve been on that didn’t have issues was an old beavertail made in Minnesota and that was the hull they got sued for, it was ultra simple tiller handheld gps. I too think that at current skiff prices they should come out perfect but that does not seem to be the case with any builder I have experience with first hand.


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## mtoddsolomon

zmgsvt said:


> Sorry, wasn't trying to insult the head of the fan boys. Just spent quite a bit of tarpon season on a very custom, brand new Vantage that has been back to the shop several times and has several things that are simply unacceptable for a $65k skiff. I know all companies put out a lemon but this one in particular has simply swayed my opinion of ECC. So, proceed to tell me how wrong I am and defend your manufacturer but I've seen it first hand, creaking hatches and all.


I didn’t know I was elected head of the fan boys, I’m honored. I didn’t even have time to write a speech.

I’d like to know what Vantage you spent time on and what all was wrong with it. If your buddy or whoever actually owns the skiff would have brought up the issues to the guys there, they would have taken care of it. You would have happily fished the rest of tarpon season trouble free, and not looked like such a dbag in front of all these nice people.

You know the reason there are so many of us “fan boys” for east cape is not only does the boat exceed our expectations but if anything is ever wrong with it, ECC makes it right. I just got back from a trip fishing Louisiana with a bunch of other east cape guys from all over and everyone had the same thing to say. 

Hop off your high horse and stop attacking me because I called you out for making a pretentious comment with no explaination.


----------



## zmgsvt

You're right, I made it all up for the sake of having an argument on a forum.


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## mtoddsolomon

I figured, come on man nobody needs that kind of drama


----------



## prinjm6

zmgsvt said:


> You're right, I made it all up for the sake of having an argument on a forum.


How long have you been waiting on that Evo copy (Cayo 180)? Long time I BET! Wonder why I've seen like 2-3 of the 9 180's up for sale already but never once an Evo


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## zmgsvt

You're really reaching now.


----------



## N it 2 win it

zmgsvt said:


> Sorry, wasn't trying to insult the head of the fan boys. Just spent quite a bit of tarpon season on a very custom, brand new Vantage that has been back to the shop several times and has several things that are simply unacceptable for a $65k skiff. I know all companies put out a lemon but this one in particular has simply swayed my opinion of ECC. So, proceed to tell me how wrong I am and defend your manufacturer but I've seen it first hand, creaking hatches and all.


I believe I am the owner of the skiff mentioned above and I would like to say that: 1. there are some inaccuracies in this post 2. that I am a happy East Cape owner and 3. sure, there were some components and niggles that had to be dealt with and they were all dealt with at no expense to me. Tight lines


----------



## prinjm6

zmgsvt said:


> You're right, I made it all up for the sake of having an argument on a forum.


Well seems you didn't make all of it up, lmao.


----------



## Str8-Six

This reminds me of the “Rick James F$&@ your Couch” skit on Chapelle show.


----------



## zmgsvt

Yep, never said anyone was an unhappy customer or that ECC didn't fix it. I simply stated that there were alot of problems for a skiff of that price and that it did enough for me to not consider an East Cape. Hard to believe it left the factory that way. You fellas can argue until your finger tips are bloody and it won't change my mind. Not sure why you're working so hard at it either? 

Enjoy the creaking, misaligned hatches, burning wire smell, etc.


----------



## mtoddsolomon

zmgsvt said:


> Enjoy the creaking, misaligned hatches, burning wire smell, etc.


Don't have to, I got an East Cape.


----------



## zmgsvt

Lmao, yeah...


----------



## SomaliPirate




----------



## MariettaMike




----------



## jmrodandgun

When I got asked to bring my Chittcapebay copy (cayo) to a gathering of sorts, I was warned there may be a few people who will try to poke the bear. I ended up not being able to hang around and talk, but it seems like it would have been a bad idea anyway.

You people are crazy.


----------



## E-money

jmrodandgun said:


> When I got asked to bring my Chittcapebay copy (cayo) to a gathering of sorts, I was warned there may be a few people who will try to poke the bear. I ended up not being able to hang around and talk, but it seems like it would have been a bad idea anyway.
> 
> You people are crazy.


We had a great time! I don't think there was any bear poking. Or at least I didn't see/wasn't a part of any.


----------



## jmrodandgun

I know man, I was just making jokes.


----------



## CoolRunnings

E-money said:


> We had a great time! I don't think there was any bear poking. Or at least I didn't see/wasn't a part of any.


It was pretty neat to see a handful of major skiff brands shoulder to shoulder in a small parking lot. Everyone was extremely nice and didn't hear any bs or negative talk about another skiff brand.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

Austin_Boudreaux said:


> It was pretty neat to see a handful of major skiff brands shoulder to shoulder in a small parking lot. Everyone was extremely nice and didn't hear any bs or negative talk about another skiff brand.


The internet has a way of making people act much more c*nty than they would in real life because consequences and all that. Gumbo was good, saw some sweet boats, met a few cool guys. Surprising turnout given the weather..


----------



## FSUDrew99

I have an older BT and I love it, I also love the fit and finish of the new ones and I don't think you can beat the customer service from them.

Shoot I had a buddy pull out of his EC deposit (which Kevin would not give back his $1000 and his boat wasn't even close to getting put into the mold) and is getting his BT put together this month I believe. Will, Liz and Eric stand behind their boats and make a hell of a skiff. Selling over 100 Mosquitos in one year says enough by itself!

Cayo I was personally very impressed with. I have been around a 17-3 and even though it was a little narrow for my taste the fit and finish was very impressive. JB builds a hell of a boat and I would love to get on a new 18.


----------



## zlenart

FSUDrew99 said:


> I have an older BT and I love it, I also love the fit and finish of the new ones and I don't think you can beat the customer service from them.
> 
> Shoot I had a buddy pull out of his EC deposit (which Kevin would not give back his $1000 and his boat wasn't even close to getting put into the mold) and is getting his BT put together this month I believe. Will, Liz and Eric stand behind their boats and make a hell of a skiff. Selling over 100 Mosquitos in one year says enough by itself!
> 
> Cayo I was personally very impressed with. I have been around a 17-3 and even though it was a little narrow for my taste the fit and finish was very impressive. JB builds a hell of a boat and I would love to get on a new 18.


I just got my 180 and I'm extremely impressed. I didn't look at east cape because of the price, but I've never seen one that I didn't like. Fit and finish on the cayo is on par with the East Cape's that I've seen, but I'm probably biased being an owner lol.

If you're ever in the tampa bay area let me know and we can fish!


----------



## Fritz

Has Beavertail really sold over a hundred Mosquito's in a year? If so that's a really impressive number and makes me wonder how many molds they have.


----------



## Capt. Gregg McKee

Fritz said:


> Has Beavertail really sold over a hundred Mosquito's in a year? If so that's a really impressive number and makes me wonder how many molds they have.


Beavertail delivered 122 total skiffs, covering all seven models, in 2017. Since the Mosquito was launched in Oct. 2016 over 100 have been sold to date. They currently have two molds for that particular model and the shop is running seven days a week to keep up with the delivery schedule. 

I actually picked up my 2018 Vengeance three months ago and couldn't be happier with it. This is my third new Beavertail and probably won't be my last.


----------



## jmrodandgun

prinjm6 said:


> How long have you been waiting on that Evo copy (Cayo 180)?


How did I miss this gem? Someone is going to have to explain this one to me.


----------



## FriendlyCheese

It cracks me up to see how defensive and butt hurt people get when others talk badly about the brand of skiff they own.


----------



## K3anderson

Beavertail??? Isn't that like a Louisiana thing?


----------



## Rick88

if I bought new I'd be hard pressed between the Drake nomad and chittum snake bight... I like the clean classic lines


----------



## Str8-Six

Well after fishing the Keys in my skiff and getting soaked (Real world two footers) the first day. It was blowing 20mph East wind and I was on the ocean side. I’ve decided to revive this thread. My needs have somewhat changed as I will be tarpon Fishing in the Keys more often. 

I’ve realized I want to go bigger now after
my recent trip and since my family has now grown. 

I’m interested in first hand opinions of HB guide, B3/Vengeance, Mosquito, Evox and Cayo 180MV. Particularly how they handle REAL 2 foot chop (3’ internet chop), Dryness in chop, effectiveness in staking out for tarpon and if 4 can fit onboard for cruising?


----------



## zlenart

Can’t help with the MV design as far as handling water or draft but I have a Cayo 180 so same Hull entry and cap. It’s blown me away with rough water handling and you can easily fit 4 for cruising. I hit the sandbar one day and we had 4 adults with 3 being about 200lbs, two coolers and my 90lb dog. Just did 3 across the back and one in the jumpseat.


----------



## Fishshoot

Why evox? For Oceanside tarpon fishing I would think you would want regular evo or even a vantage.


----------



## Rick88

Str8-Six said:


> Well after fishing the Keys in my skiff and getting soaked (Real world two footers) the first day. It was blowing 20mph East wind and I was on the ocean side. I’ve decided to revive this thread. My needs have somewhat changed as I will be tarpon Fishing in the Keys more often.
> 
> I’ve realized I want to go bigger now after
> my recent trip and since my family has now grown.
> 
> I’m interested in first hand opinions of HB guide, B3/Vengeance, Mosquito, Evox and Cayo 180MV. Particularly how they handle REAL 2 foot chop (3’ internet chop), Dryness in chop, effectiveness in staking out for tarpon and if 4 can fit onboard for cruising?


Sounds like you are looking for a marquesa


----------



## Str8-Six

Fishshoot said:


> Why evox? For Oceanside tarpon fishing I would think you would want regular evo or even a vantage.


I know it’s not ideal for Oceanside tarpon. I need a skinny boat that can routinely take some rough water. I fish Low tides in Jacksonville most of the time and the Keys every year.


----------



## Str8-Six

Rick88 said:


> Sounds like you are looking for a marquesa


I do like the marquesa but I don’t know if it can float where I need it to go in Jacksonville. If it can it’s at the top of the list.


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## zlenart

Str8-Six said:


> I know it’s not ideal for Oceanside tarpon. I need a skinny boat that can routinely take some rough water. I fish Low tides in Jacksonville most of the time and the Keys every year.


I would ask JB about the regular 180 with a 60 merc or Yamaha 70. He has a couple local guys that can show you lightly rigged ones. I know mine gets much shallower than I thought it would with a 90 and trolling motor. Probably same thing with the Evo. Just go regular hull and lighter on the power/weight.


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## Fishshoot

It will be interesting to see what that isla marine 10wt will do as well as the new spear gold cup and Islamorada element. Chittum will do what you want but they are pricey and folks on here love to hate on them. Harry is about done with Luke’s boat, islamorada just infused their first element cap and isla marines plug is finished from the looks of their thread on here. Of your original 3 I would want an evo but I wouldn’t discount the ability of the original evo hull to get skinny. You could visit all three and do wet tests. I know both east cape and hells bay will let you do wet tests happily. I have never been to beavertail factory.


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## Fishshoot

Cayo will do wet tests as well. I was mistaken you had 4 not 3. I think I would do they Cayo 180.


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## Blackdog317

I have had a BT Mosquito for 16 months now. In my opinion it is primarily a redfish rig and would not be the best choice in their line-up for spending a significant amount of time Ocean-side for Tarpon. The Vengeance, Strike, or Elite would be better suited for the chop you describe and still capable of going shallow. I fish in less than 2' of water 95% of the time for reds, so I am very happy with my skiff. Will and Liz designed and market this model as an inshore rig for folks that typically make shorter runs to fish skinny water. I have been caught in some bad conditions (20-25 mph wind and solid 2 footers) and did fine. Never felt unsafe, but did have to slow down and did get some spray. I have also covered over 90 miles in a day with a few gallons to spare in the tank...but those are not typical scenarios for me...and not where the Mosquito would be expected to excel. I believe the folks at BT would also steer you toward some of their other models for the type of fishing you describe, and you would probably be very happy with the way they perform. 

I have not staked-out for Tarpon, so no help there. 3 adults is no problem. My wife and 2 young kids are comfortable on the Mosquito. It is rated for 4 people, but that would be a little tight if you are talking 4 adults in my opinion.

Hope that helps. Good luck! Spend time in alot of the skiffs you are considering before you pull the trigger.


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## Mustang

Str8-Six said:


> I know it’s not ideal for Oceanside tarpon. I need a skinny boat that can routinely take some rough water. I fish Low tides in Jacksonville most of the time and the Keys every year.


If you want to get out on a Vantage shoot me a PM. I just recently purchased one and live in Jacksonville.


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## dgt2012

I can speak for the HB Guide; I have an 02 and here are my thoughts:
It has a large forward and aft deck to fish off of, seating is large enough for 3 abreast in the aft and one in front of the console. With my 60 hp Mercury command thrust lower end unit she does not hesitate or squat under a load, jumps right up. Tops out at 32 with a 4 blade prop. You could probably get more with different props and take off the 24v TM but I think it is a balanced rig the way it is. 
I have run it in rough weather and found that she rides on top of the waves, her 18' 4" length helps out there. The additional spray rail keeps it dry inside. I just trim down and cut the wave an she rides level through most bay chop. It has it's limits but I don't need a bay boat. 
Parked next to a Profesional and a Marquesa it looks huge. Just walk the gunnels once and you will see that it is a stable platform, barge like stable. I like that, my deck is always full of gear so I walk the rail. 
The hull is basically an enlarged Whipray with the bottom strakes proportional to a Whip. Performance poling, in turns and holeshot is very good. 
It will get skinny, with just two we slide over anything that would challenge any skiff. 
Poling is as expected for the size but because it is light so it will spin; just depends on the load and the wind because of its larger profile it will sail downwind on the flat. It is perfect for nearshore Tarpon fishing, which I am waiting for it to start as soon as this current monsoon ends. (7 days of rain and wind now)
02 cents
I like mine... .


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## Rick88

Str8-Six said:


> I do like the marquesa but I don’t know if it can float where I need it to go in Jacksonville. If it can it’s at the top of the list.


The old Marquesa are typically 7 to 9 inch boats which should get you anywhere you want to fish in Jacksonville especially with our soft mud. We have won countless tournaments out of an action craft 1820 fishing clapboard, browns and mill cove 

Not my boat but a good representation


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## Flatsaholic

I have owned a BT mosquito for over a year now. I have fished for tarpon many times with it. Clearwater, Boca, Pine Island. I had 4 people on it before fishing for tarpon it does good. I will be in Pine Island this weekend tarpon fishing with it.


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## mtoddsolomon

I can speak to the EVOx as far as it's abilities in the Lowcountry which would be similar to Jax and the week I've had it in the keys.

As far as fishing tidal marsh it's hands down the best skiff I've fished off of. You can kind of tell that from the number of EVOx up here, it poles easy against strong currents, turns on a dime in creeks, runs super shallow, and floats in nothing. It's a really dry riding skiff and really only gets you wet when the wind is strong and quartering which you're just not going to escape from. At the end of the day it's a skiff with a 4 degree deadrise so if it's a 2' chop you feel it, but with the tabs down the bow cuts through and honestly rides like a much larger sharper deadrise boat. @bryson can attest to that.

As far as running in the Keys, all of the above applies. When I poled off the beach it was honestly fine, tracked straight, felt stable, and when the live well was filled up on the anchor it acted like it was made to be there. 

If you're going to be chasing tarpon off the beach 25% of the time then I'd look hard at the EVOv because I still think with a 90 it has like an 8" draft rigged with a fly load. But if you're fishing primarily for redfish and run off the beach to chase tarpon you'll be happy in an EVOx.


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## SomaliPirate

Blackdog317 said:


> I have had a BT Mosquito for 16 months now. In my opinion it is primarily a redfish rig and would not be the best choice in their line-up for spending a significant amount of time Ocean-side for Tarpon. The Vengeance, Strike, or Elite would be better suited for the chop you describe and still capable of going shallow. I fish in less than 2' of water 95% of the time for reds, so I am very happy with my skiff. Will and Liz designed and market this model as an inshore rig for folks that typically make shorter runs to fish skinny water. I have been caught in some bad conditions (20-25 mph wind and solid 2 footers) and did fine. Never felt unsafe, but did have to slow down and did get some spray. I have also covered over 90 miles in a day with a few gallons to spare in the tank...but those are not typical scenarios for me...and not where the Mosquito would be expected to excel. I believe the folks at BT would also steer you toward some of their other models for the type of fishing you describe, and you would probably be very happy with the way they perform.
> 
> I have not staked-out for Tarpon, so no help there. 3 adults is no problem. My wife and 2 young kids are comfortable on the Mosquito. It is rated for 4 people, but that would be a little tight if you are talking 4 adults in my opinion.
> 
> Hope that helps. Good luck! Spend time in alot of the skiffs you are considering before you pull the trigger.


Just to clarify, the Mosquito is rated for 4 people?


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## Flatsaholic

SomaliPirate said:


> Just to clarify, the Mosquito is rated for 4 people?


It is rated for 4.


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## KCTim

Blackdog317 said:


> I have had a BT Mosquito for 16 months now. In my opinion it is primarily a redfish rig and would not be the best choice in their line-up for spending a significant amount of time Ocean-side for Tarpon. The Vengeance, Strike, or Elite would be better suited for the chop you describe and still capable of going shallow. I fish in less than 2' of water 95% of the time for reds, so I am very happy with my skiff. Will and Liz designed and market this model as an inshore rig for folks that typically make shorter runs to fish skinny water. I have been caught in some bad conditions (20-25 mph wind and solid 2 footers) and did fine. Never felt unsafe, but did have to slow down and did get some spray. I have also covered over 90 miles in a day with a few gallons to spare in the tank...but those are not typical scenarios for me...and not where the Mosquito would be expected to excel. I believe the folks at BT would also steer you toward some of their other models for the type of fishing you describe, and you would probably be very happy with the way they perform.
> 
> I have not staked-out for Tarpon, so no help there. 3 adults is no problem. My wife and 2 young kids are comfortable on the Mosquito. It is rated for 4 people, but that would be a little tight if you are talking 4 adults in my opinion.
> 
> Hope that helps. Good luck! Spend time in alot of the skiffs you are considering before you pull the trigger.


Your assessment of the BT Mosquito is spot on!


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## MSG

I have a vengeance w a 90 and think it is a great overall boat- the most stable of anything mentioned, and amazingly skinny as well due to the Flat back. It is sort of below the radar- don't discount it- it is a very unique set of compromises- I can't think of a better overall package- especially for poor fishing and polability for skinny water.


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## vantagefish

To chime in as well, a lightly rigged vantage with a 90zuke would probably fit the bill as well. Real world draft would be around 8-8.5”. I fish a vantage in some pretty rough stuff including Oceanside for tarpon. It will ride a bit better than the regular EVO, a little more effort to pole


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## SomaliPirate

Flatsaholic said:


> It is rated for 4.


I was unaware, thanks. I'll add that to my list of skiffs to check out.


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## Cam

SomaliPirate said:


> I was unaware, thanks. I'll add that to my list of skiffs to check out.


I think it is rated for 500lbs up to 4. It is going to be cramped fishing that many for sure. Where do they all sit?


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## Str8-Six

My current boat is rated for 4 or 585lbs but with an average person that goes on my boat weighing 200lbs I can only get away with 3. I guess I need a boat rated for 5-6 people.


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## Str8-Six

Thanks for the info so far and keepin it civil. The mosquito seems like an amazing bang for buck, and those lines.... definitely have to check one out. Will call builders to get an idea of price and schedule sea trials. The weather has been extremely shitty as of late which is perfect for sea trials.

I’m in Miami right now for at least another month then go back to Jacksonville. If anyone in the area wants to fish hit me up. It would be plus if you have one of the above skiffs so I can check it out . If not, I have my skiff down here so we can take it out as well.


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## Blackdog317

SomaliPirate said:


> Just to clarify, the Mosquito is rated for 4 people?


This is the Coast Guard rating sticker on the Mosquito (assuming nothing has changed since Jan 2017).... 4 persons or 600 lbs, 900 lbs total with gear, 70 HP max.


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## LowHydrogen

Blackdog317 said:


> This is the Coast Guard rating sticker on the Mosquito (assuming nothing has changed since Jan 2017).... 4 persons or 600 lbs, 900 lbs total with gear, 70 HP max.


What kind of hackle is that? Looks big for saddle, and thin for schlappen? Sorry for the derail.


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## Str8-Six

Any opinions on HB Guide, HB Marquesa and BT3/Vengeance and differences between each? I assume the Marquesa is best in chop because of V and that is where I am leaning. If anyone has one that can give me a ride in Miami or in Jacksonville let me know. I will pay.


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## N it 2 win it

Str8-Six said:


> Well after fishing the Keys in my skiff and getting soaked (Real world two footers) the first day. It was blowing 20mph East wind and I was on the ocean side. I’ve decided to revive this thread. My needs have somewhat changed as I will be tarpon Fishing in the Keys more often.
> 
> I’ve realized I want to go bigger now after
> my recent trip and since my family has now grown.
> 
> I’m interested in first hand opinions of HB guide, B3/Vengeance, Mosquito, Evox and Cayo 180MV. Particularly how they handle REAL 2 foot chop (3’ internet chop), Dryness in chop, effectiveness in staking out for tarpon and if 4 can fit onboard for cruising?


I live in Jax as well and fish for Tarpon all over. Just came off of an Evox for four days and I can't say enough about the fierce stability and dryness of my Vantage HPX. I can run hard (and dry) and post up in any conditions. I swapped out of a Waterman as it was getting a little hairy sometimes. Send me a PM if you like and we can talk.


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## Str8-Six

N it 2 win it said:


> I live in Jax as well and fish for Tarpon all over. Just came off of an Evox for four days and I can't say enough about the fierce stability and dryness of my Vantage HPX. I can run hard (and dry) and post up in any conditions. I swapped out of a Waterman as it was getting a little hairy sometimes. Send me a PM if you like and we can talk.


PM sent

I posted a WTB for Marquesa just in case one comes up, but still open to other options. Not looking forward to selling my current skiff as she will be missed.


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## DBStoots

@Str8-Six Give Capt. Carl Ball a call sometime and he'll be happy to tell you about his new Marquesa (replaced another Marquesa he had for years). Perhaps you could meet him at Crandon Park in Miami to check his out this week while you are in town. His number is 954.383.0145.


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## K3anderson

dgt2012 said:


> I can speak for the HB Guide; I have an 02 and here are my thoughts: Tops out at 32 with a 4 blade prop. You could probably get more with different props and take off the 24v TM but I think it is a balanced rig the way it is.


I have the same rig/engine with a jackplate. I would suggest you have Jack foreman build you one of his 3 blades for the rig. I use the 4 blade as a beater but Jack's prop is awesome. Gets it up in a boat length, lets you plane at slower speeds and is faster.


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## JT PCBFL

Str8-Six said:


> Well after fishing the Keys in my skiff and getting soaked (Real world two footers) the first day. It was blowing 20mph East wind and I was on the ocean side. I’ve decided to revive this thread. My needs have somewhat changed as I will be tarpon Fishing in the Keys more often.
> 
> I’ve realized I want to go bigger now after
> my recent trip and since my family has now grown.
> 
> I’m interested in first hand opinions of HB guide, B3/Vengeance, Mosquito, Evox and Cayo 180MV. Particularly how they handle REAL 2 foot chop (3’ internet chop), Dryness in chop, effectiveness in staking out for tarpon and if 4 can fit onboard for cruising?


You absolutely have to ride a vantage before you make your decision, along with both evo's. PS: Biased East Cape owner


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## trekker

Fishshoot said:


> Ah the great skiff wars!! I am probably one of the least experienced on skiffs on here but I have seen issues first hand on every skiff I’ve been on. That includes east cape, hell’s bay (current owners), chittum(early hulls), and maverick. The only skiff I’ve been on that didn’t have issues was an old beavertail made in Minnesota and that was the hull they got sued for, it was ultra simple tiller handheld gps. I too think that at current skiff prices they should come out perfect but that does not seem to be the case with any builder I have experience with first hand.



Why did they get sued? And by whom?


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## Backcountry 16

trekker said:


> Why did they get sued? And by whom?


Hells bay the original beaver tail was a knock off of the whipray.


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## Str8-Six

Since my skiff is sold I’m reviving this thread. I’ve narrowed things down even further. 
-no sponson
-I’ll sacrifice draft for ride 
-prefer deadrise at transom over flat back
I have narrowed it down to HPX V 17/18, Cayo 180, Marquesa and Evo V. Open to other ideas as well. Looking for used. Any insight appreciated.


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## Rick88

Chittum mangrove 12 degree or drake Nomad (4 degree deadrise)


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## Oswaldo

Cayo 173, side console, 50 Tahasu, no liner, draft 6”-7”with two anglers and fishing gear. Very dry ride.


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## Str8-Six

As much as I love the 173 I need something bigger for the way I fish now. Very interested in the 180 though. I need to get on one. Chittum and drake are probably to pricey used.


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## Tautog166

What about a Heron 18?


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