# School me on the old Beavertail models



## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

I believe some of these hulls were the ones involved in the lawsuit between beavertail and hells bay.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

The B2 was the Hells Bay Waterman mold. However I understand the real story is that one of the multiple times Hells Bay went bankrupt the original Beavertail owners were able to legally pick up the mold(s) B2, BTX and Osprey. They held onto the B2/Waterman. Eventually Hells Bay made a settlement with Fisher Beavertail after first developing a suit (all lawyers can do it) but it was Hells Bay who paid Beavertail. Beavertail to my knowledge did nothing wrong. People say using the mold is wrong but it appears knock offs happen all the time and in this case Beavertail came by the mold(s) legally. Hey what the heck -Hells Bay under new ownership bought back the mold by paying Beavertail not to use it anymore. FYI that is the original Minnesota based Beavertail and no relation to the current Beavertail ownership who bought the Minnesota company.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Interesting. So what’s the difference between B2, BTX and osprey? Any others come from HB molds or just B2?


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

I had a 2007 Bare Bones (B2 model) . The BTX came later and was a straight transom and different cap. The Osprey I believe was still the B2 but in center console and available with a tunnel. Great hulls all of them.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I have a 2007 B2 and it is an excellent skiff very easy to pole rides well great draft probably a true 6" maybe 5". Can get a little wet at times running depending on conditions and the sponson hatches will take on some water but I improved latches and very little. I have a merc 60 four stroke on mine which is more than enough. Great hole shot runs very skinny without a jackplate


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Some, if not all, of the B2s had/have issues with the stern wake rolling over the transom and filling the crustacean well when coming off plane. I don't believe any of the waterman's had that issue.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I guess that might depend on motor weight and other weight at rear. Exact same mold as far as skiff is concerned.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

The story I got from Tom Gordon years back was that Beavertail splashed the hull of the Waterman to make the B1 skiff. They found out in an interesting way. A shop in or around Titusville was working on a skiff for a customer that looked a lot like at Waterman but wasn't a HB boat. The shop called HB to come have a look. I don't remember if Tom said he went over there but someone from Hells Bay did and was able to confirm it was splashed and not just a really close copy. There was a defect in the hull mold of the original Waterman mold that caused a little blemish in the finish on the bottom. This mystery skiff, Beavertail B1, had that same blemish in the bottom of the hull. Hells Bay sued and won. They were required to cut up their splashed hull mold per court order. Hells Bay rep was onsite to see the mold destroyed. The B2 was the evolution with enough required changes to differentiate it from the Waterman. I fished one for a couple years. It sat low in the water in the back and was a lot more tippy than I thought it should be. At least it didn't eat up the chop very well and rode rough. That being said, I did get to introduce my son to sight casting for redfish on the flats on it so there is token sentimental appreciation.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Some, if not all, of the B2s had/have issues with the stern wake rolling over the transom and filling the crustacean well when coming off plane. I don't believe any of the waterman's had that issue.


Any boat can have this happen - even wakeboard boats can have water come over the stern. The key is not to stop too quickly - gradually slow down and let the wake dissipate, then back down completely. That's standard boating practice, IMO. I don't have any issues with what you explained, but I do what I explained every time.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

jay.bush1434 said:


> The story I got from Tom Gordon years back was that Beavertail splashed the hull of the Waterman to make the B1 skiff. They found out in an interesting way. A shop in or around Titusville was working on a skiff for a customer that looked a lot like at Waterman but wasn't a HB boat. The shop called HB to come have a look. I don't remember if Tom said he went over there but someone from Hells Bay did and was able to confirm it was splashed and not just a really close copy. There was a defect in the hull mold of the original Waterman mold that caused a little blemish in the finish on the bottom. This mystery skiff, Beavertail B1, had that same blemish in the bottom of the hull. Hells Bay sued and won. They were required to cut up their splashed hull mold per court order. Hells Bay rep was onsite to see the mold destroyed. The B2 was the evolution with enough required changes to differentiate it from the Waterman. I fished one for a couple years. It sat low in the water in the back and was a lot more tippy than I thought it should be. At least it didn't eat up the chop very well and rode rough. That being said, I did get to introduce my son to sight casting for redfish on the flats on it so there is token sentimental appreciation.


I believe you are bit off in your hulls. The B2 is a copy of the Waterman through and though. The BTX and Osprey started to differentiate themselves.

And Beavertail did nothing wrong at the time - HB went bankrupt and one of the best hull designs was not going to be made. They settled and everyone is happy now.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Are BTV, BT3 and Vengeance same hull? No one has mentioned them yet so I assume they are not splashed?


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I might be. This was 12-ish years ago but I'm just repeating what Tom Gordon told me. At the time, he had an obvious bias towards Hells Bay...


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

When I had my B2 a friend brought his Gordon Waterman over and we parked them next to each other. I can say his cockpit was noticeably deeper and his hull had more freeboard. I have a BT DVD somewhere with Mark Fisher explaining that they reduced the freeboard on the B2.

I had read somewhere way back when that the hull was a Whipray with sponsons added.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> I believe you are bit off in your hulls. The B2 is a copy of the Waterman through and though. The BTX and Osprey started to differentiate themselves.
> 
> And Beavertail did nothing wrong at the time - HB went bankrupt and one of the best hull designs was not going to be made. They settled and everyone is happy now.


I'm not interested in debating whether they splashed the hull, but if you think they splash a patented hull they did do something wrong. Even if Hell's Bay was in bankruptcy someone still owned the molds/design - either the creditors, the new owners, etc. Still can't splash someone's hull, even if they aren't currently being built.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

The real issue was the purchase of Hells Bay by Brian Broderick. This guy was involved in all sorts of fraud and corruption scams in Alabama prior to purchasing HB from Hal Chittum. He escaped those state charges, not all, apparently by working with prosecutors going after bigger fish. Its too bad HB was sold to this guy. He ran it most likely purposely into the ground taking 28 deposits over $400k and not building as well as taking out large loans over 2.5m which he was called in on and that lead to the bankruptcy. Chris Peterson is quite the guy to pull it all back together including merging with Gorgon boatworks which had acquired rights to two of the Waterman molds. And then Peterson also cleared up Beavertail's mold which it isn't too hard to perceive that Broderick made some deal on with Beravertail. Chris Peterson did "save the day" for Hells Bay and that's great and the dog was Broderick and the choice of selling HB to him.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

EvanHammer said:


> I'm not interested in debating whether they splashed the hull, but if you think they splash a patented hull they did do something wrong. Even if Hell's Bay was in bankruptcy someone still owned the molds/design - either the creditors, the new owners, etc. Still can't splash someone's hull, even if they aren't currently being built.


Aw lawd... here we go....

Hulls have been splashed since the dawn of time... I completely understand the ownership, but people get the panties all up tight without understand what exactly happened in this case. It's polarizing, and actually still slings mud at times at the current Beavertail owners. But then again, we don't live in a fact-based society.

Full disclosure, I own a splashed hull and smile ear to ear when I use it.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I also own and love a splashed B2. However it is not a HB. New @18k with an Etec. Was hard to beat. Only problems are worn out seadeck and a cracked splash well insert. I’m glad splashing or copying is alive and well. Grocery and liquor store would not be a very fun place if it wasn’t.


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

Str8-Six said:


> Are BTV, BT3 and Vengeance same hull? No one has mentioned them yet so I assume they are not splashed?


Same hull / not splashed. Built by new ownership team


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

timogleason said:


> Same hull / not splashed. Built by new ownership team


Do you know the difference in the cap in each?


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## Platticus (May 21, 2018)

Str8-Six said:


> Do you know the difference in the cap in each?


My understanding is that they are all the exact same. BTV is short for Beavertail Vengeance. When I contacted Beavertail about my Vengeance, they called it a BTV in the reply, so I think they're just interchangeable terms.


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

BT3 - is same hull but different cap as Vengeance. I think BTV and Vengeance is the same as Platticus said. Center Console with a big honking live well on rear deck center located. BT3 isn't made any more. I think you could get a side or center console. My friends had side console with smaller rear port side live well or you could plumb a center console seat if you had the center console Boat is a cadillac. Strap a 90 or 115 and it Rides like a dream.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

The original vengeance was a totally unique new hull - tremendous flare and very deep vee up front, and tapering to an almost flat back.. After a few years, it slightly morphed into a BT3 - which was a different cap - then the BTV - which had an overhanging cap- about 2 inches overhang on each side. They went back to the name vengeance in 2016 - to my knowledge, the only difference between this and the BTV is the front storage hatch no longer sits at the edge, but is inset further forward in the hull. I own a 2015 BTV and owned an original vengeance - I think it is a really good hull. - nothing I can think of that is a better set of compromises for stability, draft and ride.


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