# Gheenoe Classic Duck Boat Project



## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Well boys, here it is. Just picked this up the other day and over the summer will be turning this into a dedicated duck hunting machine. 

She's rough. Make that real rough. Needs some 'glass work as can be seen, and this will be the first time I've worked with 'glass. She's got a leak as of right now!! But, I'm eagr to learn, have plenty of time, and am looking forward to getting it done. I could certainly use some input on how to patch her up properly from all you "glassmasters" out there!!  

The motor starts up and idles, but then quits. I did not try to re-start it as I believe the gas in it is pretty old. See my post under the outboard section for some pretty graphic photos of varnish problems!

Trailer is rougher than a three-dollar you-know-what. Amazingly the hubs are in perfect shape and never even got close to warm on the 90 mile trip home. Plus I don't think anything fell off along the way, which is a bonus! I will be going through it and bringing it up to snuff with new axle/hubs/fenders/springs and hardware. Oh and lights. Probably will eventually swap trailers with the hi-sider as that trailer is perfect and is a bit longer than this one. 

Anyways, here's the first glance. Think of this as the "before" pictures in a Jenny Craig ad: 

Overall shot: 









She's a low-deck Classic hull, should give me plenty of room up front for seating and moving around. Plus plenty of deck storage for dekes while running to/from:









Mariner 25 horse short shaft, electric start. The familiar shifter in the tiller handle setup common to the merc/mariner 25's:









Here's where she starts to show her age: Patch work done, think it's structurally sound but how do I check it?









Close-up of the patch: 










Now here starts the stuff I'll need to work on: Hole!!!!!!!!









Close-up to see what we're dealing with here: 









Good size ding and crack in the gelcoat here as well: 









Close-up of the problem in above pic: 









Another ding in the gelcoat on the left rear: 









Now here's where I get into modding it a bit. I want to remove the baitwell drain from the hull and patch it. The livewell will be used as a dry storage area or battery box, so the hole for the standpipe's gotta be sealed up:









Topside, inside the baitwell there is a crack through the bottom of the well also, see to the left of the standpipe:









Closeup of problem area inside baitwell: 









Cowling needs some TLC as well!!!









I'll leave you with another few shots so you all can get a better idea of the "before" condition, and something to look back on in a few months to hopefully see how far along it's come: 


















My goal with this boat is to make is safe, structurally sound and seaworthy; cosmetically I'd like to do the best job I can, learn along the way, and not freak out if the 'glass work is not visually perfect. I'll be painting it head to toe in camo so small imperfections don't concern me.


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

get that motor worked on and jack it up. put a 4 blade heavy propped cup and you will be able to run almost everywhere to chase ducks. are you going to paint the motor as well? i would if it was a "duck hunting boat only"


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

wow, Tanner's old boat............Tanner put thousand of thousands of hours on this boat and still a great gheenoe. This Gheenoe has been all over in florida and catch some mojo!   He has been gheenoers with us for last 3 years. 

TomFl,

take care of this gheenoe because it's worth every piece of it! ;D


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> get that motor worked on and jack it up. put a 4 blade heavy propped cup and you will be able to run almost everywhere to chase ducks.  are you going to paint the motor as well?  i would if it was a "duck hunting boat only"


Yes and yes. Plans are for a jackplate, possibly an ultrajack, and a 4-blade XXX cupped SS prop. Totally dedicated to duck duty and will be rigged as such. Camo everywhere is just the start. 

-T


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> wow, Tanner's old boat............Tanner put thousand of thousands of hours on this boat and still a great gheenoe.  This Gheenoe has been all over in florida and catch some mojo!   He has been gheenoers with us for last 3 years.
> 
> TomFl,
> 
> take care of this gheenoe because it's worth every piece of it! ;D


WS, you guessed it, it's Tanner's old boat. Once I get her fixed up I'm going to take her places, show her things she never thought possible!

The Mojo will be put to the test!!!!!! She needs duck mojo now bro!!

-T


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Those ain't holes, those are dings.
A hole is what Green Hornet had to deal with.
See the Frankenhull (back from the dead, it's alive!)

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1225741506

Strip it, clean it, bleach it. Then we'll talk.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Those ain't holes, those are dings.
> A hole is what Green Hornet had to deal with.
> See the Frankenhull (back from the dead, it's alive!)
> Strip it, clean it, bleach it. Then we'll talk.


Was hoping to get that far today, but work got in the way.  

I did manage to pull the motor to give it a thorough going-through and get it up to snuff. The weekend will give me more time to strip the hull and get it ready to work on.

Thanks Brett.

-T


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## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

motor will-should idle fin once she gets warmed up bud:thumbup:


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> motor will-should idle fin once she gets warmed up bud:thumbup:


Thanks man. I think she'll be good to go once I get the fuel line replaced and work a little TLC magic on her. 

She's gone to a good home Tanner, I will put her to good use and treat her right. 

-T


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## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

im glad to see her go to a good home


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

The thing I like best on a duck boat hull is the teflon coating from Fasco. You can pole over hydrilla and spaterdock to pick up birds. It also helps get through the thick stuff under power.

http://www.fascoepoxies.com/

Good luck with the project. If you are going to make a blind you can take a look at mine when up Sebastian way.

Best regards,
Frank_S


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## CAJUN (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom, I was wondering how much do you know about the Ultrajack? They are manufactured in my hometown and my Nephew just purchase one to put on a 1544 Alweld boat for the Louisiana marsh. It should be on the boat by the 7th of Feb, I'll let you know how he likes it.

Joe


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Tom, I was wondering how much do you know about the Ultrajack?  They are manufactured in my hometown and my Nephew just purchase one to put on a 1544 Alweld boat for the Louisiana marsh.   It should be on the boat by the 7th of Feb, I'll let you know how he likes it.
> 
> Joe


Joe, I know nothing about the performance of them other than watching the vids on the website and talking briefly with the owner of the company. 

I would absolutely love some real-world first-hand experience from an independant source. Please post a report about it once you guys get it on the boat and put 'er through the ringer. 

THANKS!

-Tom


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Looks like perfect duck boat candidate! If you ever need any help, give me a call.


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

> > Tom, I was wondering how much do you know about the Ultrajack? They are manufactured in my hometown and my Nephew just purchase one to put on a 1544 Alweld boat for the Louisiana marsh. It should be on the boat by the 7th of Feb, I'll let you know how he likes it.
> >
> > Joe
> 
> ...


I want to know about it and is it manaual or hydraulic jackplate? Does it have a website?? Any info about it?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> I want to know about it and is it manaual or hydraulic jackplate? Does it have a website?? Any info about it?


you asked, you get:

http://pages.prodigy.net/lee_self/


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Whitesnooky, I doubt it would be a good candidate for anything other than those running in the marsh. Stick with TomC's stuff if you're looking for a conventional jack plate. 

I'm leaning toward the ultrajack as it is more of a marsh-specific plate with the weed seperator thingy on it. 

I will probably start the hull work this weekend and hopefully have it ready for paint by next weekend although I don't know if I'll start the actual camo stenciling right away. After that I'll look further into the motor, although that seems like it will need more work than originally thought. One cylinder shows about 95psi, the other about 120. The lower unit had no oil in it at all, but it did have some water. It may be a better anchor than motor, we'll see. 

-T


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

Tom,

If the water that came out of the lower unit was rusty and dark it may be only useful as a parts engine. I would never rebuild one unless the power head was first class. (rebuild the lower unit). One of my friends does the power heads for the area Mercury shops. It takes special boring bar and machine tools to do Mercury and Mariner engine block work. The engine still has value though and many DIYers would rebuild. I usually order rebuilds from Southwest Marine in Fort Myers.

http://www.southwestmarine.com/Dealers/Dealer_Section/dealer_yamaha_powerheads.html

In/re to lower unit if gears are good a reseal kit install isn't too bad and most can do it first time if good at removing outboard screws.

Best regards,
Frank_S


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

If you camo the boat out, one wouldn't see any of the imperfections on the hull. It really hides a LOT.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Tom,
> 
> If the water that came out of the lower unit was rusty and dark it may be only useful as a parts engine. I would never rebuild one unless the power head was first class. (rebuild the lower unit). One of my friends does the power heads for the area Mercury shops. It takes special boring bar and machine tools to do Mercury and Mariner engine block work. The engine still has value though and many DIYers would rebuild. I usually order rebuilds from Southwest Marine in Fort Myers.
> 
> ...


Frank, agree 100% on making sure the powerhead is A+ before going further. I don't have faith in the numbers I got before. I am hoping I was off with my original compression test numbers, was in a rush to do it prior to an appointment and for some reason could not get an accurate read on that cylinder, and then went back to the original cylinder to see what was going on, and couldn't get the gauge to stay put on that cylinder either, my gauge may have just taken a dump.

As far as the lower unit goes, the wierd thing is,the water that came out of it wasn't dirty at all. There was about 3 tablespoons of water in there. There was no seal washer on the lower drain bolt, so I don't know if the water got in through the bolt hole while I had it in the water originally when trying to start it. There was no oil in it. Not sure if Tanner simply forgot to refill it, or if it all leaked out because there was no seal washer on that bolt, or if it's just got serious issues. 

I got new seal washers today and will refill and run it again tomorrow and go from there. 

Tomorrow I will have more time to investigate/play around with it more. 

-T


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Motor is running good, and I'll throw it on the hi-sider tomorrow for a test sping and see if the seal gasket did in fact take care of the lower unit leak. 

Alright boys, back on track to the fiberglass repairs at hand. This is the part I know nothing about but am anxious to learn. I figure with all the patching I need to do by the time I'm done with this I'll be a pro!!  Plus if I screw anyting up you won't be able to see it once it's camoed up 

Tomorrow morning I will be stripping the hull of all excess wires/baggage/pumps/attachments, and getting it ready for the 'glass work. 

What do I need to finish the prep work with as far as solvent??

Also, what glass supplied would you guys reccomend I pick up to do the work at hand? 

OK Brett, now it's my turn to sniff some thinners and solvents. Should go well with the chemtool cocktail ;D


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Clean hull inside and out.
Scrub hull well with dish soap and water like cleaning fish slime off.
Degreases and removes surface scum. Wipe down hull with a solution
of 1 part bleach to 3 parts water to kill mildew and bacteria.
Let sit one hour, then rinse well. Let dry overnight.
Just like painting, preparation is everything.

After everything dries, let's deal with a tiny ding or two.
Pick up some white Marine-Tex. 100 grit sandpaper. 220 grit paper.


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

Tom this guy is in Fort Pierce (south end) and has all that you should need. I have known him for years. 

www.raka.com

Frank_S


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

Hey Tom,

Not to nag, but I forgot to mention solvent. Use virgin grade from an auto paint store or at least look out for "reclaimed" solvent. Many have had LPU paints and epoxy fail to adhere properly and the reclaimed solvent was thought to be at fault. To use any solvent, flood the area with a wet cloth and dry it with a dry clean one or you can redeposit what you want to remove. Clean first then sand or you may sand contaminants into the work.

Best regards,
Frank_S


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Hey Tom,
> 
> Not to nag, but I forgot to mention solvent. Use virgin grade from an auto paint store or at least look out for "reclaimed" solvent. Many have had LPU paints and epoxy fail to adhere properly and the reclaimed solvent was thought to be at fault. To use any solvent, flood the area with a wet cloth and dry it with a dry clean one or you can redeposit what you want to remove. Clean first then sand or you may sand contaminants into the work.
> 
> ...


Frank, don't worry, I can use all the input you guys can dish out. 

Hull is stripped of all wires/hoses/rivets, hatch covers and bow plate.

Pressure-washed, degreased then bleached. It's actually white now  

Found some new areas that will need a little more attention than previously thought, but nothing major. 

Also having thoughts of modifying the livewell area into one large dry box/battery box, and possibly adding a false floor to the rear of the existing battery box. From the battery box forward there is a fals floor already in place from the factory. Will start off with the small patchwork and work my way through to where it's seaworthy again. If I feel confident enough I may tackle the bigger projects in my mind, but if not I'll hunt it like it is. 

Will have pics up shortly. 

Tomorrow I go shopping for supplies. Frank thanks again for the contact in Ft Pierce, he's a little north of me but will try him if Chapman's in Stuart doesn't have the stuff I will need. Would most definately prefer to shop at a local, independant guy rather than a large box store like West. 

-T


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Step 2: Stripped of all add-ons, pressure cleaned, degreased and then bleached. One thing I did not have was rust-aid so I will need to touch that up. Who would have guessed the hull was white!?!?

She's ready for some grinding and 'glass work. 










In this photo You can see the area with some adhesive residue that will need to be ground off prior to moving ahead:










Hole-y gheenoe logo. Found this under the broken pieces of the logo: 










Will want to patch the area that was cut into the box for a switch panel. I will be using both these boxes as battery and/or dry storage so no holes!!


















And here's the baitwell drain that will need to be patched, along with the trouble area on the floor of the baitwell.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Great thread. I am enjoying following your work.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Great thread. I am enjoying following your work.


Hope you still have the same opinion when I crack into the 'glass work!

It's fun, and with the help of Brett and the rest of you guys I'm learning some stuff I've always wanted to know how to do. 

Plus I've got plenty of time before I need to get it on the water, a good friend to help, and a few $$ left over from teh purchase for pizza and refreshement funds. 

-T


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Brett is like the Chuck Norris of microskiffs...


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> Brett is like the Chuck Norris of microskiffs


Too true, every time I get into a microskiff,
much like Nuck Chorris, I break something with my feet.
Rodholders, cooler tiedowns, rod tips, reel handles, landing net,
bilge pump, switch panels, paddles, pushpoles, my butt...

                                   

How do you think I learned how to fix all these things?
I had to, after breaking them, I couldn't pay someone else to fix 'em.
I didn't have the cash. I'm married with children...


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## CAJUN (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom,  here's some pictures of the UltraJack jackplate on an Alweld 1544.  Hopefully the pictures will come out right, this is my first try a posting pictures.

















Pictures were taken Wednesday. Boat was run today, to adjust motor for best performance. Haven't run in marsh yet but that is coming soon.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

> > Brett is like the Chuck Norris of microskiffs
> 
> 
> Too true, every time I get into a microskiff,
> ...


I was thinking more along the lines of:

"Brett doesn't have to squeegy the airbubbles out when he's laying resin. The bubbles realize who they're working with and run out themselves."

"When Brett's in his microskiff, he doesn't work around the tides. The tides work around Brett."

Anyone have anything?


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Cajun, would love to know if that skeg sticks below the bottom of the hull????

Thanks

-T


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Based on the vid and website pics,
when running on plane the prop, skeg and weed fin
hang 8-10 inches below the bottom of the transom.
You can tell by the location of the water intake
on the side of the lower unit. Top of the intake has
to be below water level or the pump would be sucking air.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

cajun...the hump...on a flatbottom, with that much setback, you can run much higher...ive never ran a ultra jack with the shark fin thingy, but i do have a buddy thats running a 12 inch jack(ultra jack is 12 inch , i believe) and he has his engine set as high as i have mine, and i have a tunnel...the hump of water continues to rise for 1-2 feet as it exits the rear of the boat...so, the further you go with setback, the higher you can mount your engine... please understand, however, that this does affect the draft of a small hull...the further you go with setback, also the more "squat" you will have at rest...am i making any sense?? i am in my mind..lol


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Duck boat project update for 2-09, waiting on a buddy who wants to help with the hull, so kinda in a holding pattern there. I've gone through the motor briefly as outlined in the outboard forums and she runs great and strong. So what to do with some spare time? Work on the engine cowl. This was my first attempt at 'glass repair, so I'm sure the gurus like Brett will see some defects in my work of course, but honestly I was amazed how easy it was to fix, and it came out darned near perfect. I'm thrilled in fact!

Here's what I started with:









Supplies: 









First step was to drill out the ends of the cracks to stop them from spreading: 









Then cut out the bad areas: 









Sand out and feather the edges back a bit: 









Cover outside with blue tape: 









Cut some cloth to the size and mix up some toxic brew:









Lay down a few pieces of cloth:









Allow to dry, turn over and remove blue tape, found two small bubbles so I popped them with a knife: 









Some filler: 









Mixed and filled, ready for sanding:









Sanded flush, she's looking good now!:









Repeat steps above for pull-start handle area (not thrilled with the bubbles that formed, swore I got them all out prior to setting, but when I came back I had 2 bubbles):









All filled in, ready for paint prep: 









After this photo I actually went back and re-worked this area to add more layers of matt for strength, was worried about the handle coming back and smacking it upon release: 









All in all, took a few hours of time and while I wouldn't say it's ready for a concourse show, for what I'm going to be doing with it it's overkill. Came out very very smooth, and one has to look closely and feel to find the area that I worked on. I'm thrilled.

The next part is working on the hull, need to go shopping for different materials and will be diving into that one night this week or by next weekend. Hoping to have the hull ready to prep for paint in the next two weeks. 

Still wondering whether to order one of the styx river camo stencils or come up with a pattern of my own using the local fauna from the marshes here. I will certainly need to look around for matte paints in the colors I want, the tans/browns/blacks should be no problem but I haven't seen the brighter greens that make up the top of the broom grasses in the marshes here, but I've got time to look for sure. 

-T


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## redgheenoe (Apr 28, 2007)

Nice job Tom....looks like its ready for some paint.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]    Looks fine by me...


   Keep on working, I'll nag when I see something wrong.
                  
                       [smiley=watching-you.gif]


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

So what is the best stuff out there to prime from the lower unit with?Would like to eventually paint from the gearcase up with camo once I get the hull ready to paint. While I've got time waiting for my bud who wants to do the hull with me, I would like to prep the rest of the motor for paint so that part's done.

This was a pic from before the motor was removed from the hull, etc:


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

paint technology has changed since my last repaint:

http://continuouswave.com/maintenance-logs/paintSkeg/


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

OK, so I'm to the stage of putting Humpty-Dumpty back together again. Spent 1/2 of today sanding both sides of the hull, then a lot of prepping and the rest beginning the repairs with 'glass matt, resin/etc, and marine-tex on the topside. 

I'm pleased with the progress, the 'glass work is fun and she's coming along nicely. A few more days of work like today and she should be floatable. 

I've uncovered some additional areas that will need more involved work and could use some input as to the best way to attack it. 

The area shown in the photo below was a pretty good crack, and when pushed on you could easily seperate the 'glass (this was shown in a photo in the original post with me pushing on it with my fingertip in the photo). It was all the way through. Inside the hull here there is foam, then the raised flat floor, so it's not a simple repair, but I wouldn't mind taking up the false floor in that area as I have some modding ideas for there. Once I began sanding I saw that the crack and damage was more extensive than first thought, and the foam was soaking wet inside, although the boat was stored inside (upside down though). so I removed any bad looking 'glass from the area and pulled some of the brown foam out. What was left is a good sized hole. 

Area we're talking about here:









Close-up shot of it:









Am I correct in that this is something that should be repaired from both the inside and the outside? If you look back through the old pictures you will note that there was a repair made on the opposite side of the hull in the same location when I got it, but the repair was just kinda glopped on the outside and built up to maybe 1/4" thick. I do not know if this is the best way to approach it, but if both sides could use attention this is the time to do it. 

Additionally, the 'glass layers on the floor of what used to be the baitwell have seperated. This is raised above the deck, so it won't be a huge issue to remove this and replace with new flooring if that's the best way to repair it. I could use some input here from the 'glass gurus as well. Cut the whole area out or is there a bettter way?









Working on another hole in the bottom of the hull I found something interesting inside. Anyone missing a fuel fitting??









Now for my last question; what would be the best approach to reinforce the nose cap to be able to support the birdsall trolling motor mount and trolling motor reliably? I would like to overbuild this if to avoid any potential issue in the future (this goes without saying for the rest of the repairs on the hull as well). 









Swiss Cheese









Mounting to come in the future:









Thanks for the input from all the fiberglass guys out there, I'm a beginner but learning as I go and want to do it right. 

-T


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## orlgheenoer (Dec 10, 2006)

Great job bro, its looking awesome.

thanks for doing her good!!!!


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

For hole repairs the best how-to vids are located here...

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/videoList.do?video=new

right side of page bottom,
West Systems repair videos
everything from dings and scratches
to major hole repairs

West System Adding Fillers

West System Applying Fabrics

West System Basic Techniques: Bonding

West System Blister Repair Howto Part II

West System Dispensing and Mixing

West System Epoxy

West System Epoxy Barrier Coating

West System Fairing

West System Fastener Bonding

West System Fiberglass Repair Part I

West System Fiberglass Repair Part II

West System G/flex

West System G/Flex Epoxy Resin

West System Gelcoat Howto

West System Howto: Blister Repair I

West System Installing Mini Pumps

West System Restricted Access Fiberglass Repair

West System Six10 Thickened Epoxy Adhesive


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Well I've finally had a chance to devote some time to the duck boat project, and am happy to say I'm really please with how things are turning out. The patchwork is solid as a brick, and with a little more finish sanding she'll be ready for paint prep and some camo. 

The bow patch (this is SOLID now!):









The livewell bottom patches from the outside:









The side patch (there were 3 of these):









Patch on inside of livewell/storage area:









Hopefully I'll have time next week to do a few final mods on it and finish the sanding and paint prep. 

My shopping list is still pretty long; I need a 4-blade SS prop, the ultrajack JP, and a pair of batteries but I've got some time before early season teal in Sept. 

I can't wait for duck season to get here...

-T


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

Looks good! The hard parts are done, now comes the fun part.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Looks great. Although I wouldn't suggest bondo brand body filler. It's not very good at all. And it's made for single stage paints. It also shrinks after time. I would suggest using something better like "EuroGold" or USC's "Basecoat Clearcoat body filler". Pretty much any gold filler. It's much better as far as shrinking and what not. It also spreads smoother, sands easier without leaving pinholes. 


It looks great regardless though.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Looks great. Although I wouldn't suggest bondo brand body filler. It's not very good at all. And it's made for single stage paints. It also shrinks after time. I would suggest using something better like "EuroGold" or USC's "Basecoat Clearcoat body filler". Pretty much any gold filler. It's much better as far as shrinking and what not. It also spreads smoother, sands easier without leaving pinholes.
> 
> 
> It looks great regardless though.


Only thing bondo'd was the motor cover, which is now in T-i-O's hands. Didn't think it would be an issue with something that wasn't exposed to constant water though. 

All else is 'glass naturally.

-T


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> > Looks great. Although I wouldn't suggest bondo brand body filler. It's not very good at all. And it's made for single stage paints. It also shrinks after time. I would suggest using something better like "EuroGold" or USC's "Basecoat Clearcoat body filler". Pretty much any gold filler. It's much better as far as shrinking and what not. It also spreads smoother, sands easier without leaving pinholes.
> >
> >
> > It looks great regardless though.
> ...



Yeah I was talking about the motor cowling. And it doesn't have to do with being submerged. It's the heat alone will make the bondo shrink. I've seen it too many times. Next time if you can just opt for the gold body filler. They sell it anywhere that they would sell Bondo brand. Just a couple bucks more, and last a whole lot longer.


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