# Sage Bass II or Gloomis Shore Stalker



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Have you looked at the reddington predator short rods as well? They perform well and are more reasonable in price.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

el9surf said:


> Have you looked at the reddington predator short rods as well? They perform well and are more reasonable in price.


Yes I have, not against it was just feeling out the other two for reviews.. if everyone says predator ill probably pick one of those up. Not to be snobbish just never been a fan of the lower tier rods as far as components and feel


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Just keep in mind the short rods may be labeled 5wt but they are typically stiff due to the flexy tip being taken out of the equation. They typically require a line that is usually 2 weights higher. If you look at the grain weights of the matching sage lines the 5 wt rod might need a 7 or 8wt grain equivalent line to load it properly. So in reality the rod might be labeled 5wt but it really fishes like a 7wt. This isn't brand specific by the way, just seems to be a characteristic of these short rods. I have fished the predators and a sage bass. 

The sage bass was really nice, but too pricey for the frequency I would use it. Otherwise I would have bought one if it was going to be my go to rod.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Very happy with my Predator 6wt. I actually prefer it when paddling the SUP to my NRX 8wt. 

Its just a much better rod to finesse the tight backwaters.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

el9surf said:


> Just keep in mind the short rods may be labeled 5wt but they are typically stiff due to the flexy tip being taken out of the equation. They typically require a line that is usually 2 weights higher. If you look at the grain weights of the matching sage lines the 5 wt rod might need a 7 or 8wt grain equivalent line to load it properly. So in reality the rod might be labeled 5wt but it really fishes like a 7wt. This isn't brand specific by the way, just seems to be a characteristic of these short rods. I have fished the predators and a sage bass.
> 
> The sage bass was really nice, but too pricey for the frequency I would use it. Otherwise I would have bought one if it was going to be my go to rod.


Yea I figured it was up one, not two or 3wts overall, I might need to feel this out a bit more and actually fish one. 90% of my shots last 2 months or so in the lagoon have been inside 20ft so looking at ways to accomplish those a little better, but I cant jump up to that size of a line with 2lb and 4lb tippet itll break 50% of the time with that diameter of the head (7wt/8wt) in the water even with me poling my ass of after a fish.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I had my predator 6wt short rigged with a 8wt grain equivalent line. I have my 8wt predator rigged with a 9.5 wt equivalent line but have also fished it with a 10wt line depending on how long or short of a cast I find myself making on average. Then you figure some of the lines are a half to full size heavy by grain weight despite their wt label. Easier to pay attention to line grain weight especially on these rods.. 

The short rods can be tricky to line correctly. Call sage tech support and ask them what the grain wt of the line is that they pair with the bass rod you are looking at. That should help you narrow things down a bit.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

As for the lagoon I have been in the same boat, all my cast have been inside of 40 ft, most in the 20 - 30ft range over the past year. Been using my 7wt with a compact front taper line, it manages the short shots well enough. I haven't seen the need for such light tippet, the water is so dirty they don't seem to be line shy at all. I had a fish last week that I didn't even cast to, I just dangled the fly off the side of the boat and he ate. My welded loop was literally about 3 inches out of my last guide. 

Why are you fishing 2 and 4lb tippet?


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

el9surf said:


> As for the lagoon I have been in the same boat, all my cast have been inside of 40 ft, most in the 20 - 30ft range over the past year. Been using my 7wt with a compact front taper line, it manages the short shots well enough. I haven't seen the need for such light tippet, the water is so dirty they don't seem to be line shy at all. I had a fish last week that I didn't even cast to, I just dangled the fly off the side of the boat and he ate. My welded loop was literally about 3 inches out of my last guide.
> 
> Why are you fishing 2 and 4lb tippet?


The girlfriend has been doing some igfa stuff, so that's all that has been on the rod for the past month. Got a few tippet records on select species we are working on. Not record chasers by any means, just fishing but with the correct tackle in the chance the right fish shows up, takes lots of reps and lots of fighting fish to get the feel, so far she's doing great. I refuse to go target lady fish/pinfish/catfish ect.. just to break a record. Its been a lot of fun for me on the back of the boat, nice change of pace and a new challenge beside the old flip them over on 12 or 16lb and turn the handle.


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## Fish_specialist (Jan 1, 2014)

Also a predator fan. I run them for charter clients as they are very durable and have some serious lifting power....


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Nice, didn't even consider that. Let us know what you end up with. I would be curious to see what the setup ends up being.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

el9surf said:


> I had my predator 6wt short rigged with a 8wt grain equivalent line. I have my 8wt predator rigged with a 9.5 wt equivalent line but have also fished it with a 10wt line depending on how long or short of a cast I find myself making on average. Then you figure some of the lines are a half to full size heavy by grain weight despite their wt label. Easier to pay attention to line grain weight especially on these rods..
> .


What lines?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> What lines?


My 6wt predator was lined with the sage 230 grain bluegill line. Casted like a dream, especially bigger bass flies.

My 8wt predator is usually lined with the Rio outbound tropical 8wt 330 grain
Also fished it with the sa chard 8wt grand slam and the 8wt Rio clouser. The outbound loads the rod the best but it tangles like silli string coming out of the can.


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## erikb85 (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm pretty sure I bought Surfs 6wt predator and it has the Sage Bluegill? Maybe on it. It's 230gr whatever it is. It casts good and loads quick. Not really a 90ft rod but not meant to be. Does good from 20-45.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

erikb85 said:


> I'm pretty sure I bought Surfs 6wt predator and it has the Sage Bluegill? Maybe on it. It's 230gr whatever it is. It casts good and loads quick. Not really a 90ft rod but not meant to be. Does good from 20-45.


That maybe because the line is too heavy for the rod. Never fished that Bluegill line. I take it that it's a floater with a little longer front taper for presentation?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> That maybe because the line is too heavy for the rod. Never fished that Bluegill line. I take it that it's a floater with a little longer front taper for presentation?


I don't normally over line rods, but the short rods are usually stiffer in action. At least with the predator series it feels like they take a normal 6wt rod and just chop off the last foot which really turns it into a heavier weight rod.

The 6wt that erikb85 mentioned was setup specifically for bass fishing tighter creeks around my house. I had that rod setup to turn over big flies with minimal false cast in 50 ft range max. It was accurate and very deliberate, not a presentation rod or line by any means.

If you put a normal 6wt line on that rod you will need 50 ft of line out the tip to feel it load.

Everyone has their preference but I personally didn't want to setup a short rod to be throwing 80ft cast. The whole point was quick loading, accurate for fishing tighter quarters.


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

http://www.steepandcheap.com/reding...zZWQ6Rmx5IEZpc2hpbmcgR2VhciBPbiBTYWxlOjM6MTE6


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Slewis_Rodworks said:


> http://www.steepandcheap.com/reding...zZWQ6Rmx5IEZpc2hpbmcgR2VhciBPbiBTYWxlOjM6MTE6


Those are little canons!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

el9surf said:


> I don't normally over line rods, but the short rods are usually stiffer in action. At least with the predator series it feels like they take a normal 6wt rod and just chop off the last foot which really turns it into a heavier weight rod.
> 
> The 6wt that erikb85 mentioned was setup specifically for bass fishing tighter creeks around my house. I had that rod setup to turn over big flies with minimal false cast in 50 ft range max. It was accurate and very deliberate, not a presentation rod or line by any means.
> 
> ...


Ok understood! Yes those little short rods work great for tight quarters. But I've been able to throw a heavier line like a Rio Redfish size match to the rod (like a Rio Redfish 6wt line matched to a short 6wt rod) with a water load, one false cast, increasing your travel and drift back on your back cast and be able to punch 60-80ft. (not wading of course).

But back to the OP (HXP Fly) statement. He's trying to protect ultra light tippet, he really needs to drop down to a 5wt and even a 4wt to protect those size tippets and still have some ability to throw if some breeze picks up. But after about 10mph, unless they are throwing with the wind, they are basically shut down. Funny thing is those tippets are geared more for 3wts., but you can't throw a fly with any decent size to them with a 3wt. The key is to balance a rod tip with enough flex to help protect those tippets, with enough of a rod to throw the lines needed to throw flies just barely big enough for them to eat them. Although, a saying I came up with years ago when I started catching snook on crappie jigs with 6lb test ultra lite spinning gear, back eons ago, and is that, *"they may not be hungry enough to eat a whole sandwich, but there's always enough room for a few potato chips!"*

I remember Steve Gibson fly fishing for beach snook with a 4wt with his nothing flies for primarily presentation and the use of going with lighter tippet for stealthiness. If you ask him today, he would still say his favorite rod for that is a 4wt, but you mostly see him with a 6wt in his hand.

HXP Fly, I can tell you that women make better fly casters with light rods since they have more patience with slowing down their cast to throw a lighter, slower rod. Plus they have the patience play the fish out without busting them off and therefore protecting those extremely light tippets. It's not what I recommend, being the water is warmer and not so great for the fish. But if the water is somewhat cool and she's gentle with the fish, it can work and I see what you guys are trying to do.

HPX Fly, where are you located and what flies and fly size are you throwing?

Ted Haas


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Slewis_Rodworks said:


> http://www.steepandcheap.com/reding...zZWQ6Rmx5IEZpc2hpbmcgR2VhciBPbiBTYWxlOjM6MTE6


well I guess for $160 worth a test, ordering one now


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Ok understood! Yes those little short rods work great for tight quarters. But I've been able to throw a heavier line like a Rio Redfish size match to the rod (like a Rio Redfish 6wt line matched to a short 6wt rod) with a water load, one false cast, increasing your travel and drift back on your back cast and be able to punch 60-80ft. (not wading of course).
> 
> But back to the OP (HXP Fly) statement. He's trying to protect ultra light tippet, he really needs to drop down to a 5wt and even a 4wt to protect those size tippets and still have some ability to throw if some breeze picks up. But after about 10mph, unless they are throwing with the wind, they are basically shut down. Funny thing is those tippets are geared more for 3wts., but you can throw a fly with any size to them with that. The key is to balance a rod tip with enough flex to help protect those tippets, with enough of a rod to throw the lines needed to throw big enough flies.
> 
> ...


Yes I know the warmer water is a bit of an issue, kinda why we have been only fishing 4lb instead of 2lb, fight time is really not that long on an average sized redfish and we all know how hearty they can be as long as time is spent reviving the fish (which we do spend a lot of time doing). Breaking fish off hasn't really been an issue its more getting good hook point penetration. The purpose of fishing it has been just to get some reps in before Louisiana this season.

I live in Vero Beach, but don't fish here much. Spend most my time in Titusville, oakhill, the everglades and west coast. Fishing is just not what it used to be locally. The fish here get power poled on and cut bait chunks or croakers tossed in front of them every day. So not many hidden areas anymore that I can throw feathers so I log a lot of truck time. But it is what it is.

Back to the rod- I ordered a predator off steap and cheap just now and have various lines ill play with on it in the pond at the house and see how it feels. Ideally I might end up building something if I cant find the niche rod (light tippet & short casts). Granted what we have been fishing (6wt crosscurrent glx & 7wt sage one) have been fine im more just tinkering for the sake of tinkering and one can never have to many fly rods.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> Ok understood! But I've been able to throw a heavier line like a Rio Redfish size match to the rod (like a Rio Redfish 6wt line matched to a short 6wt rod) with a water load, one false cast, increasing your travel and drift back on your back cast and be able to punch 60-80ft. (not wading of course).


I set it up the way I wanted it to fish. Having said that short rods aren't exactly ideal for 80 ft cast. The longer your back cast the more likely it is that it will hit the water behind you due to the lack of rod length.

I wanted something that I could pick up off the water and in one cast put back in a new spot around 50 ft and turn over a big bulky bass fly in the process. Where I was using it the more back cast you had meant more tangles in trees, weeds and bushes behind you.

I had also mentioned over lining because the OP had talked about very short cast, 20 ft range. In my experience with the short predators a real true line weight can't really be felt till you have a lot of line in the air which defeats the purpose of the rod in my eyes.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

HPXFLY said:


> Yes I know the warmer water is a bit of an issue, kinda why we have been only fishing 4lb instead of 2lb, fight time is really not that long on an average sized redfish and we all know how hearty they can be as long as time is spent reviving the fish (which we do spend a lot of time doing). Breaking fish off hasn't really been an issue its more getting good hook point penetration. The purpose of fishing it has been just to get some reps in before Louisiana this season.
> 
> I live in Vero Beach, but don't fish here much. Spend most my time in Titusville, oakhill, the everglades and west coast. Fishing is just not what it used to be locally. The fish here get power poled on and cut bait chunks or croakers tossed in front of them every day. So not many hidden areas anymore that I can throw feathers so I log a lot of truck time. But it is what it is.
> 
> Back to the rod- I ordered a predator off steap and cheap just now and have various lines ill play with on it in the pond at the house and see how it feels. Ideally I might end up building something if I cant find the niche rod (light tippet & short casts). Granted what we have been fishing (6wt crosscurrent glx & 7wt sage one) have been fine im more just tinkering for the sake of tinkering and one can never have to many fly rods.


You might have to get *BayStYat* to build you a glass rod. That might be what you really need for short cast trowing bigger flies but a soft enough rod to protect light tippet.

Where do you fish the west coast of FL? Remember,_ the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence_. I love those big snook you guys have over there!


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Ok understood! Yes those little short rods work great for tight quarters. But I've been able to throw a heavier line like a Rio Redfish size match to the rod (like a Rio Redfish 6wt line matched to a short 6wt rod) with a water load, one false cast, increasing your travel and drift back on your back cast and be able to punch 60-80ft. (not wading of course).
> 
> But back to the OP (HXP Fly) statement. He's trying to protect ultra light tippet, he really needs to drop down to a 5wt and even a 4wt to protect those size tippets and still have some ability to throw if some breeze picks up. But after about 10mph, unless they are throwing with the wind, they are basically shut down. Funny thing is those tippets are geared more for 3wts., but you can't throw a fly with any decent size to them with a 3wt. The key is to balance a rod tip with enough flex to help protect those tippets, with enough of a rod to throw the lines needed to throw flies just barely big enough for them to eat them. Although, a saying I came up with years ago when I started catching snook on crappie jigs with 6lb test ultra lite spinning gear, back eons ago, and is that, *"they may not be hungry enough to eat a whole sandwich, but there's always enough room for a few potato chips!"*
> 
> ...


sorry forgot part two flies are just various streamers and sliders I tie usually on a size 1, 2 or 4 Sc15 or SL12. most flies are under 2in and various weights from unweighted to large bead chain. When I sit down at the vise I will tie the same fly in about 4 different size/ weight variations and usually 4 of each. Something I recommend for pretty much anyone who ties there own, helps a lot with your proportions tieing and truly "fishing" a fly for a fish, not just casting a fly at a fish, bc you can adjust where you are fishing in the water column even if it is only 12in deep.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Backwater said:


> You might have to get *BayStYat* to build you a glass rod. That might be what you really need for short cast trowing bigger flies but a soft enough rod to protect light tippet.
> 
> Where do you fish the west coast of FL? Remember,_ the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence_. I love those big snook you guys have over there!


yes ive been thinking glass, and I have seen his work and its far superior to mine but I have built around a 100 or so rods over the years, mostly long distance surfcasting rods (when I had a thing for launching 8in long chunks of wood 150yds, but that was another time and place).

Perhaps he will chime in on a blank recommendation, glass it not my thing at all, owned a couple but don't have much knowledge of them always been a lighter, faster, stronger guy when it come to all rods. But every rod has its place and glass might find a rod tube on my skiff after all.

I fish choko, the bay and up to apalach, all this talk has me itching for a longer drive this weekend, been thinking way to much about fish in the grass lately.


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

well apparently steep and cheap is out of stock my card was refunded per email I just got, blessing in disguise I guess. The hunt for glass is on.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

HPXFLY said:


> sorry forgot part two flies are just various streamers and sliders I tie usually on a size 1, 2 or 4 Sc15 or SL12. most flies are under 2in and various weights from unweighted to large bead chain. When I sit down at the vise I will tie the same fly in about 4 different size/ weight variations and usually 4 of each. Something I recommend for pretty much anyone who ties there own, helps a lot with your proportions tieing and truly "fishing" a fly for a fish, not just casting a fly at a fish, bc you can adjust where you are fishing in the water column even if it is only 12in deep.


A lot of people overlook this aspect of fly tying. Once I find a pattern that works I will tie it in varying sizes and weights for the exact same reason you mentioned.


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## mpl1978 (Apr 14, 2016)

How about http://stcroixrods.com/products/fly-fishing/mojo-bass-fly/
The price is right and it won some kind of award at icast in 2015. Never used it and nor am i even close to a vet on the fly stick to render a qualified opinion, but thought i would mention it.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

HPXFLY said:


> sorry forgot part two flies are just various streamers and sliders I tie usually on a size 1, 2 or 4 Sc15 or SL12. most flies are under 2in and various weights from unweighted to large bead chain. When I sit down at the vise I will tie the same fly in about 4 different size/ weight variations and usually 4 of each. Something I recommend for pretty much anyone who ties there own, helps a lot with your proportions tieing and truly "fishing" a fly for a fish, not just casting a fly at a fish, bc you can adjust where you are fishing in the water column even if it is only 12in deep.


I stop using SC15 & even the SL12S and found that there are way better options for presentation and sharpness and hook weight. You can order them on-line off of ebay, but take a look at the *Dai-Riki 930* Stainless steel hooks. Thinner wire, not as flashy as the cadmium plated hooks, very nice bend to them for holding on to the fish They have longer, thinner sharper points for better hook penetration. I've stuck plenty of small tarpon with that hook. Also, SS is by nature softer than high carbon steel hooks, but somehow these guys managed to use a high tinsel strength SS, so they are thinner wire and lighter than the SL12S or the Mustad 34007 and don't bend. Plus they are cheaper and don't rust. After 27yrs of tying and fly fishing, I have now found these hooks to be my favorite general purpose saltwater hooks.

Also for freshwater, look at the Gami B10S but note they the hook bend is one size bigger (so a #4 is equivilant to a size #2) and they do rust if you use them in the salt. So you have to rinse them right away to get a few more uses out of them.

Also take a look at the Owner Mosquito hooks (you can find them in Walmart), especially with baitfish or floating patterns. They are thin wire as well and extremely sharp and very light weight. I've also caught snook and small tarpon on these hooks as long as you are not putting the heat and big pressure on it (which you wouldn't with anything lighter than 12lb test tippet). They will rust over time but not as bad as the Gami B10S, especially if you rinse it as soon as you cut it off.

Ted


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

HPXFLY said:


> yes ive been thinking glass, and I have seen his work and its far superior to mine but I have built around a 100 or so rods over the years, mostly long distance surfcasting rods (when I had a thing for launching 8in long chunks of wood 150yds, but that was another time and place).
> 
> Perhaps he will chime in on a blank recommendation, glass it not my thing at all, owned a couple but don't have much knowledge of them always been a lighter, faster, stronger guy when it come to all rods. But every rod has its place and glass might find a rod tube on my skiff after all.
> 
> I fish choko, the bay and up to apalach, all this talk has me itching for a longer drive this weekend, been thinking way to much about fish in the grass lately.


Or consider something softer, like an old school used Winston. When Coconutgroves comes back from Belize, maybe he can chime in on the subject (he's a Winston queer! Ha! JK).


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Backwater said:


> I stop using SC15 & even the SL12S and found that there are way better options for presentation and sharpness and hook weight. You can order them on-line off of ebay, but take a look at the *Dai-Riki 930* Stainless steel hooks. Thinner wire, not as flashy as the cadmium plated hooks, very nice bend to them for holding on to the fish They have longer, thinner sharper points for better hook penetration. I've stuck plenty of small tarpon with that hook. Also, SS is by nature softer than high carbon steel hooks, but somehow these guys managed to use a high tinsel strength SS, so they are thinner wire and lighter than the SL12S or the Mustad 34007 and don't bend. Plus they are cheaper and don't rust. After 27yrs of tying and fly fishing, I have now found these hooks to be my favorite general purpose saltwater hooks.
> 
> Also for freshwater, look at the Gami B10S but note they the hook bend is one size bigger (so a #4 is equivilant to a size #2) and they do rust if you use them in the salt. So you have to rinse them right away to get a few more uses out of them.
> 
> ...


I will take a look at the Dai-Riki, not a fan of the owners mentioned but that's just because I don't like the hook style, I also don't find my self fishing many "baitfish" patterns except docks and little poons and those are all on SC15s. Or the clouser for pomps and macks ect and those get the old 34007.

Ive fished the SC15 for years and outside of a few bad packs with rolling points they have been flawless I fish used to fish alot of number 1s and 2s for big tarpon oceanside and haven't had one bend out which is saying something fishing 12 and 16lb. But I don't spend much time down south doing that anymore although big strings in clear water is something I love to watch which is what I do most the time bc those damn things don't chew like they do in the black water.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

HPXFLY said:


> I will take a look at the Dai-Riki, not a fan of the owners mentioned but that's just because I don't like the hook style, I also don't find my self fishing many "baitfish" patterns except docks and little poons and those are all on SC15s. Or the clouser for pomps and macks ect and those get the old 34007.
> 
> Ive fished the SC15 for years and outside of a few bad packs with rolling points they have been flawless I fish used to fish alot of number 1s and 2s for big tarpon oceanside and haven't had one bend out which is saying something fishing 12 and 16lb. But I don't spend much time down south doing that anymore although big strings in clear water is something I love to watch which is what I do most the time bc those damn things don't chew like they do in the black water.


I've had SC15's straighten out on big fish, so my big tarpon and big fish flies get the Owner Cutting Point 5180. The profile of the Dai-Riki 930 is similar to the 34007, only the 930's have a better bend, they don't rust where I've had 34007's rust on me, they are sharper, thinner wire and lighter and stronger. The 930 in a #2 is my go-to clouser hook. I generally use 12-15lb tippet. On the light side, I'll frop down to 8lbs for freshwater and finiky beach snook. Otherwise, 10lb is light for me. I typically am throwing 20lb for bigger tarpon and big species.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Yea, I actually think a 5 or 6wt glass rod would be perfect for this situation. Keeps a forgiving, soft tip to play the light tippet.


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