# Gel Spun Backing



## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Gel does not fit on Tibor's.

Do you really need more than that with a 7wt?


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## jamie (Jan 22, 2016)

I run the hatch backing on many of my reels. Very happy with it thus far. Pricy - yes but trivial compared to the rest of the set up and provides a nice balance between conventional braid and the gel spun razor wire...


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## Uno (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks guys...I will do what I have always have done. Cut my fly line down 10 feet to increase the cap of the backing. I have never ran low yet but it is just a little extra security.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ducknut, I don't understand how gel spun wouldn't "fit" on a Tibor Freestone. Nevertheless, I agree that it's something that I wouldn't use. I never recommend the stuff and to me, it's as bad as using Power Pro as I've seen some people mention.

Uno, I do agree with Ducknut in that, you shouldn't need more than 125yrds for a 7wt, unless you are using it specifically for bonefish.

Uno, you can use Cortland's Micron which you should gain about 15-25yrds over dacron and Cortlands Micronite which should gain even more line, maybe another 25yrds. 20lb test is all you should need.


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## Uno (Sep 9, 2010)

Backwater said:


> Ducknut, I don't understand how gel spun wouldn't "fit" on a Tibor Freestone. Nevertheless, I agree that it's something that I wouldn't use. I never recommend the stuff and to me, it's as bad as using Power Pro as I've seen some people mention.
> 
> Uno, I do agree with Ducknut in that, you shouldn't need more than 125yrds for a 7wt, unless you are using it specifically for bonefish.
> 
> Uno, you can use Cortland's Micron which you should gain about 15-25yrds and Cortlands Micronite which should gain even more line, maybe another 25yrds. 20lb test is all you should need.


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## Uno (Sep 9, 2010)

Backwater, I do plan on bonefish and the other end of the spectrum - carp. I will get the cortland micronite on order. Thanks for the info.


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## Austin Bustamante (May 11, 2015)

why not gelspun backing on tibors? will it collapse the spool?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Uno said:


> Backwater, I do plan on bonefish and the other end of the spectrum - carp. I will get the cortland micronite on order. Thanks for the info.


I've seen it on closeouts for a reasonable price on ebay.

Uno, don't be afraid to palm your spool when a bone makes runs, especially the first few big runs. Most people have their drags set a little light so the initial burst would break their tippets. So on each power run, apply some extra spool pressure and you will change it's mind about making such lengthily runs. It will run as far as you let it run. So don't let it run that far, but using your head to not apply so much pressure that you will break him off. Study your tippets and knots strengths and weaknesses and remember what you can and can't do with pressure. Also use rod's butt section to apply the pressure and not the tip of the rod and fight the fish with the butt and you will see him slow down and come in quicker and avoid running out of backing.

I would also apply immediate pressure on your flyline at first when he eats instead of letting the loose line, on the water or on the deck, slip freely through your fingers. I see more people worrying about allowing the fish to go on the reel instead of applying whatever pressure you can on your flyline until that happens. Don't worry, he'll get on the reel, but don't just give it to him, make him work for it. That will also slow down long range runs. Practice that technique with your inshore fish until you have it dialed in right, then apply those techniques when you are on the carp and the bones and you will see that you can cut their runs down to manageable distances.

Ted Haas


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I have gel spun backing on every single one of my fly reels. Just use 65# (or at least 50#) and you won't have any issues with cuts. The newer stuff is much kinder on the fingers than the stuff that first came out. There are a lot of reasons I like gel spun and won't reiterate them here. This has been discussed ad naseum.

But I will make one comment as to the finger cutting. Why are your fingers on the line when a fish is running in the first place?


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## Capt. TJ Saunders (May 9, 2016)

I second the Hatch backing sentiment. I run it on everything from my 5wt up to my 11wt. Never had any issues with it at all.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

My recommendation is to call CharkBait in California and get a big ole spool of 60 lb. - 16 strand hollow core Toro Tamer braid. Spool up all your reels with it, enjoy the thrill of catching big fish, soft on the hands (like butter), easy to make great no knot loops, will last a long, long, long long, time. *Mo better* than gel spun, micronite. If you get a big enough spool they will throw in a set of rigging needles. 


Cast to where the fish are!!!


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I've ditched Gel in favor of Hatch - it is just softer to the touch and doesn't cut into itself like gel can. @el9surf uses Power Pro Hallow Ace - I have that on my list to try.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hatch good stuff, 8 strand braid. Toro Tamer, *Mo better, *16 strand braid, soft like goose down pillow floating on puffy cloud. Very doubtful Hatch makes their own braid. Educated guess; Hatch buys from actual manufacturer, puts Hatch name on it and resells (higher cost). Whatever braid, better than gel spun, etc.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

sjm1580, I haven't tried it yet. Been meaning to with my big tarpon and offshore outfits to gain a little more backing (which I still use 30lb Micron and haven't broken off a fish yet on the backing), including that Sunline (I think that's what it's called) fluorocarbon leader material they sell (have you tried that yet?). Please share that link again. What is the line capacity of the 60lb Toro Tamer hollow core vs say 20lb dacron (or even micron). Funny thing is, I'm all big Cortland's backing material since it is soft to the touch too. But They talked me into trying their Cortland Master Braid Premium Super Braid in 50lbs for my big outfits. So I bought a 600yrd spool of it in hopes that it would fit the bill and be good. BUT, when I got it, low count braid zipper feeling like Power Pro (regular stuff, not the Hollow core stuff) and so I never spooled it up and would never recommend it for the same reasons I don't like gel spun or PP. So I'm interested to see what the Toro Tamer feels like (as you mentioned above). Btw, where are you located?

ifsteve, keeping flyline pressure on the runs with your hands/fingers as I mention above is vital into slowing down fish that makes long runs. That can, at time, translate to running out of fly line and getting accidentally zipped by your backing if you are not paying attention. Also, fingers/hand can accidentally touching the backing when palming a spool, again with someone not paying attention to it as the adrenaline runs to their head (as I see so many people do). No one is saying grab the backing, although I've seen it happen by a few people to try to stop a fish from going into structure (and yes they did get cut). As for going with "the new" gel spun, what's the point if you have material that allows for smaller diameter, but then step up the pound test to gain diameter so it doesn't cut you?? It's redundant. I mean, his 20lb test backing is more than sufficient on a lil Tibor Freestone on the 7wt, even with carp and bonefish. The most pressure he'll be able to put on that 7wt will be about 3-4lbs of rod pressure.

coconutgroves and Capt TJ, haven't tried the Hatch stuff.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> sjm1580, I haven't tried it yet. Been meaning to with my big tarpon and offshore outfits to gain a little more backing (which I still use 30lb Micron and haven't broken off a fish yet on the backing), including that Sunline (I think that's what it's called) fluorocarbon leader material they sell (have you tried that yet?). Please share that link again. What is the line capacity of the 60lb Toro Tamer hollow core vs say 20lb dacron (or even micron). Funny thing is, I'm all big Cortland's backing material since it is soft to the touch too. But They talked me into trying their Cortland Master Braid Premium Super Braid in 50lbs for my big outfits. So I bought a 600yrd spool of it in hopes that it would fit the bill and be good. BUT, when I got it, low count braid zipper feeling like Power Pro (regular stuff, not the Hollow core stuff) and so I never spooled it up and would never recommend it for the same reasons I don't like gel spun or PP. So I'm interested to see what the Toro Tamer feels like (as you mentioned above). Btw, where are you located?
> 
> ifsteve, keeping flyline pressure on the runs with your hands/fingers as I mention above is vital into slowing down fish that makes long runs. That can, at time, translate to running out of fly line and getting accidentally zipped by your backing if you are not paying attention. Also, fingers/hand can accidentally touching the backing when palming a spool, again with someone not paying attention to it as the adrenaline runs to their head (as I see so many people do). No one is saying grab the backing, although I've seen it happen by a few people to try to stop a fish from going into structure (and yes they did get cut). As for going with "the new" gel spun, what's the point if you have material that allows for smaller diameter, but then step up the pound test to gain diameter so it doesn't cut you?? It's redundant. I mean, his 20lb test backing is more than sufficient on a lil Tibor Freestone on the 7wt, even with carp and bonefish. The most pressure he'll be able to put on that 7wt will be about 3-4lbs of rod pressure.
> 
> coconutgroves and Capt TJ, haven't tried the Hatch stuff.



Toro Tamer 60 lb., 16 strand hollow core PE braid diameter is 0.4mm. But I don't think a diameter to diameter comparison is valid because the stuff lays flat on the reel unlike gelspun or other stuff. Cheaper than 8 strand Hatch (which is certainly made by someone else) and better in my opinion. I don't buy my backing because of tensile strength (for obvious reasons, no one needs 60 lb. backing when your reel drag is set to around 6 lbs. for bigger fish), I buy it because of feel and line capacity. Works really good for me. Use it on my 7 weight up to my big reels. Got about 425 yds. on a Tibor Gulfstream, about 280 Yards on Islander LX 4.0, about 250 yds. on a Islander LX 3.8 and so on. Caught fish that strip off 250 yards of backing before you can say "ohh shit". Never had a problem and don't suspect I ever will. I bought a 2500 meter spool and rigged most of my reels with it. I personally think it is one of the best products out there.

Yes I have tried sunline, good stuff as well. I usually only use it for bite tippet with Ande mono above.

Goodland Florida OUT!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

sjm1580 said:


> Toro Tamer 60 lb., 16 strand hollow core PE braid diameter is 0.4mm. But I don't think a diameter to diameter comparison is valid because the stuff lays flat on the reel unlike gelspun or other stuff. Cheaper than 8 strand Hatch (which is certainly made by someone else) and better in my opinion. I don't buy my backing because of tensile strength (for obvious reasons, no one needs 60 lb. backing when your reel drag is set to around 6 lbs. for bigger fish), I buy it because of feel and line capacity. Works really good for me. Use it on my 7 weight up to my big reels. Got about 425 yds. on a Tibor Gulfstream, about 280 Yards on Islander LX 4.0, about 250 yds. on a Islander LX 3.8 and so on. Caught fish that strip off 250 yards of backing before you can say "ohh shit". Never had a problem and don't suspect I ever will. I bought a 2500 meter spool and rigged most of my reels with it. I personally think it is one of the best products out there.
> 
> Yes I have tried sunline, good stuff as well. I usually only use it for bite tippet with Ande mono above.
> 
> Goodland Florida OUT!


Nice quality reels for sure!

I've launched outta there many a times, but I'm jealous I don't live in Goodland. One of my all time favorite redfish docks is there! Heck, I'd even go to the Spam festival if I could live there! Ha!  Hummm..... Maybe even live in one of the Cape Romano dome homes if my wife would let me! lol


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Nice quality reels for sure!
> 
> I've launched outta there many a times, but I'm jealous I don't live in Goodland. One of my all time favorite redfish docks is there! Heck, I'd even go to the Spam festival if I could live there! Ha!  Hummm..... Maybe even live in one of the Cape Romano dome homes if my wife would let me! lol


Islanders are some of the best reels I've used. Going to try some lighter reels (Nautilus), but not sure they will stand the test of time. Some of my Islanders are over 25 years old and have had some hard days. Never a burp, never been sent back, a little fresh water, some lube and on they go. Maybe not as light weight or come in cool colors, but are the real deal.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Backwater said:


> Ducknut, I don't understand how gel spun wouldn't "fit" on a Tibor Freestone. Nevertheless, I agree that it's something that I wouldn't use. I never recommend the stuff and to me, it's as bad as using Power Pro as I've seen some people mention.
> 
> Uno, I do agree with Ducknut in that, you shouldn't need more than 125yrds for a 7wt, unless you are using it specifically for bonefish.
> 
> Uno, you can use Cortland's Micron which you should gain about 15-25yrds over dacron and Cortlands Micronite which should gain even more line, maybe another 25yrds. 20lb test is all you should need.


The reason I said that was sarcasm.

The brand of reel has nothing to do with a particular type of backing. Either put on one that matches the capacity of the mfg, or go smaller diameter to increase capacity. The type is up to you and the backing doesn't care what brand of reel it is resting on.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

DuckNut said:


> The reason I said that was sarcasm.
> 
> The brand of reel has nothing to do with a particular type of backing. Either put on one that matches the capacity of the mfg, or go smaller diameter to increase capacity. The type is up to you and the backing doesn't care what brand of reel it is resting on.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Ted, 65# gel spun is still much thinner than even 20# dacron. Now that said once I need to get new backing (my gel spun spool is now gone) I will probably try Jerry Brown or Toro. As to the pressure on the fly line during the initial run yes I get that but just don't ever have an issue with keeping pressure on the fly line and getting the fish on the reel well before I run out of fly line and am in to the backing. Maybe thats cause I can't cast very far so never have that much fly line laying on the deck.

Steve


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Ted, 65# gel spun is still much thinner than even 20# dacron. Now that said once I need to get new backing (my gel spun spool is now gone) I will probably try Jerry Brown or Toro. As to the pressure on the fly line during the initial run yes I get that but just don't ever have an issue with keeping pressure on the fly line and getting the fish on the reel well before I run out of fly line and am in to the backing. Maybe thats cause I can't cast very far so never have that much fly line laying on the deck.
> 
> Steve


Toro is good stuff, Jerry Brown is good stuff. Take your pick!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Ted, 65# gel spun is still much thinner than even 20# dacron. Now that said once I need to get new backing (my gel spun spool is now gone) I will probably try Jerry Brown or Toro. As to the pressure on the fly line during the initial run yes I get that but just don't ever have an issue with keeping pressure on the fly line and getting the fish on the reel well before I run out of fly line and am in to the backing. Maybe thats cause I can't cast very far so never have that much fly line laying on the deck.
> 
> Steve


Steve, your ability is never in question!  As you well know, I'm typically speaking to the masses.

Ted


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Backwater said:


> Steve, your ability is never in question!  As you well know, I'm typically speaking to the masses.
> 
> Ted


What little ability I have I think I lost somewhere along the way......lol


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> What little ability I have I think I lost somewhere along the way......lol


The thing I realized with me too is.... "the more I learn, the less I really know."


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve and sjm1580,

Found this interesting read about the Jerry Brown hollow core backing. Very sililar info to how el9surf explains how he threads up Power Pro hollow core on his flyline as well, with splice about 6ft long.

http://www.capth3.com/public/The_Hollow_Connection.pdf


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> ifsteve and sjm1580,
> 
> Found this interesting read about the Jerry Brown hollow core backing. Very sililar info to how el9surf explains how he threads up Power Pro hollow core on his flyline as well, with splice about 6ft long.
> 
> http://www.capth3.com/public/The_Hollow_Connection.pdf


That guys write up is more complicated than it needs to be.You don't need a latch needle, serving jig, activator....

You can do everything you need with a daho needle with a loop on the back.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

el9surf said:


> That guys write up is more complicated than it needs to be.You don't need a latch needle, serving jig, activator....
> 
> You can do everything you need with a daho needle with a loop on the back.


Those needles seem pricey, especially because they want you to buy a whole kit of them.. Any recommendation to buy just 1 needle for the 60lb HC braid?

Question 2 - can the fly line running line just be stuffed up inside of the HC and be worked in without a needle. I take it the needles are just to serve in a loop?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Yes you can buy individual needles from charkbait.com they sell a daho needle with a loop on the back. 
You need to run the needle through the hollow core to open it up before you can work the running line in. Once it's open you can push the running line into it if you cut it into a point. I usually splice 60 to 80 and put the running line into 80 it's easier to work with. You can put a loop on the back of 80 and connect that to the running line and create a loop to loop for interchangability. If you have a line you are committed to you can go ahead and put the running line into the backing and go completely knotless but interchangability is an issue.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Those needles seem pricey, especially because they want you to buy a whole kit of them.. Any recommendation to buy just 1 needle for the 60lb HC braid?
> 
> Question 2 - can the fly line running line just be stuffed up inside of the HC and be worked in without a needle. I take it the needles are just to serve in a loop?


Charkbait sometimes run specials where they throw in a set of rigging tools, but like said all you need one with a latch on the back and off you go.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

I have plain ole bass pro brand 30lb Dacron on my rods. I split a 150Yd spool between my 6Wt and my 8Wt. 50Yds on my 6wt and 100yds on my 8wt. 

There is no need to over analyze the backing. Just make sure your tippet is about 60% smaller than your backing. I figure if I ever hook into a fish that I cant chase down with the boat and is big enough to take all that line out then he can just have the fly. In the 10+ years that I have been doing this I have never come close to being spooled.

When you buy gel spun, hatch or any of that other expensive stuff you are just buying a dream. Some slick advertising campaign just convinced you that one day you would hook into a 38lb bone fish and if you only had 200yds of backing you may land the fish.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

CurtisWright said:


> I have plain ole bass pro brand 30lb Dacron on my rods. I split a 150Yd spool between my 6Wt and my 8Wt. 50Yds on my 6wt and 100yds on my 8wt.
> 
> There is no need to over analyze the backing. Just make sure your tippet is about 60% smaller than your backing. I figure if I ever hook into a fish that I cant chase down with the boat and is big enough to take all that line out then he can just have the fly. In the 10+ years that I have been doing this I have never come close to being spooled.
> 
> When you buy gel spun, hatch or any of that other expensive stuff you are just buying a dream. Some slick advertising campaign just convinced you that one day you would hook into a 38lb bone fish and if you only had 200yds of backing you may land the fish.


Curtis, You are *almost* 100% correct.

I look at it this way, when I re spool my reels, I use stuff that I will probably leave on the reel for 10 plus years, so the cost difference over that period of time is negligible at best. Some of us travel and once in a great while get into some fish that can spool you in a matter of seconds (200 -300 yards) before you can even put the boat in gear.. I sure don't want to ever have to re spool for a trip that arises, my suggestion is to do it once and be done with it. In the sense that someone is "buying a dream" by using top quality backing, you couldn't be more incorrect. Especially someone that gets offshore, spool it with the best, the most, and be done with it. If you are absolutely, 100% certain you will never aspire to trying for a fish that can spool you, then be all means get the cheapest Dacron you can find. After all, fishing for bluegills is great fun!


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

sjm1580 said:


> Curtis, You are *almost* 100% correct.
> 
> I look at it this way, when I re spool my reels, I use stuff that I will probably leave on the reel for 10 plus years, so the cost difference over that period of time is negligible at best. Some of us travel and once in a great while get into some fish that can spool you in a matter of seconds (200 -300 yards) before you can even put the boat in gear.. I sure don't want to ever have to re spool for a trip that arises, my suggestion is to do it once and be done with it. In the sense that someone is "buying a dream" by using top quality backing, you couldn't be more incorrect. Especially someone that gets offshore, spool it with the best, the most, and be done with it. If you are absolutely, 100% certain you will never aspire to trying for a fish that can spool you, then be all means get the cheapest Dacron you can find. After all, fishing for bluegills is great fun!


Sounds like a blast. What type of fish?


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

CurtisWright said:


> Sounds like a blast. What type of fish?


Black Marlin for one. Trevally (Giant, Bludger, Golden, etc.). Tuna (long tail, yellowin, etc). Lots of good stuff out there!


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

sjm1580 said:


> Black Marlin for one. Trevally (Giant, Bludger, Golden, etc.). Tuna (long tail, yellowin, etc). Lots of good stuff out there!


What do you do and how can I do it?


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## jamie (Jan 22, 2016)

so i've defiantly bought into the dream - all large reels loaded with hatch backing. Happy to pay for it.
Feb 14 punta mita near off shore: While fishing for bonita, jacks and false albacore chanced upon a piece of whale carcass - and a gazillion fish including dorado... not equipped for the big ones. Hooked a 5 footer on my 9 wt who instantly took me deep into the hatch backing on my hatch 7+ must of jumped 20 times before shaking the hook... can't wait for the next one.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

CurtisWright said:


> I have plain ole bass pro brand 30lb Dacron on my rods. I split a 150Yd spool between my 6Wt and my 8Wt. 50Yds on my 6wt and 100yds on my 8wt.
> 
> There is no need to over analyze the backing. Just make sure your tippet is about 60% smaller than your backing. I figure if I ever hook into a fish that I cant chase down with the boat and is big enough to take all that line out then he can just have the fly. In the 10+ years that I have been doing this I have never come close to being spooled.
> 
> When you buy gel spun, hatch or any of that other expensive stuff you are just buying a dream. Some slick advertising campaign just convinced you that one day you would hook into a 38lb bone fish and if you only had 200yds of backing you may land the fish.


X6


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

CurtisWright said:


> What do you do and how can I do it?


1) Spool your reels with a lot of good backing

2) Save up some coins and go to Australia. Highly recommended...


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

jamie said:


> so i've defiantly bought into the dream - all large reels loaded with hatch backing. Happy to pay for it.
> Feb 14 punta mita near off shore: While fishing for bonita, jacks and false albacore chanced upon a piece of whale carcass - and a gazillion fish including dorado... not equipped for the big ones. Hooked a 5 footer on my 9 wt who instantly took me deep into the hatch backing on my hatch 7+ must of jumped 20 times before shaking the hook... can't wait for the next one.


I'm sure Hatch is good stuff, look for Jerry Brown or Toro Tamer 16 strand. More better and more reasonable IMO .


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