# Piranha Boatworks new Margo P180 flats Skiff launched



## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

I just received these pictures of the design I did for Mike Held owner of Piranaha Boatworks last year. You can see the hull lines on this site and way more on my 2 blogs.
Mike is sending me a video of her running this week and more pictures and info.
You can see lots here by the way she is floating with a full load in her. This skiff is designed to float in 9” loaded. Looks to me she is on her lines looking good. That bow and the upper chine will not make any noise. You can take test rides on this boat soon as they have 9 dealers from Texas to Florida. 
Will keep you posted as I get info.
Thanks


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

Looks really nice. Is that a 115? What is the beam?


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

windblows said:


> Looks really nice. Is that a 115? What is the beam?


Hull length is 17’10” Overall deck length is 18’
Hull beam is 7’ Deck bem is 7’4”
Draft loaded as seen is 9”
Hull speed with the 115 hp, three guys seen, two trolling motor batters forward and a full 30 gla fule thank is 42 mph in good chop.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

That looks fantastic! Can't believe how great she sits even loaded down like that!

What would you say are the biggest "operational" differences between that skiff and the 10wt (Lithium skiff) design?


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2018)

Love the lines!


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

bryson said:


> That looks fantastic! Can't believe how great she sits even loaded down like that!
> 
> What would you say are the biggest "operational" differences between that skiff and the 10wt (Lithium skiff) design?


Good question.
They are 2 totally different Skiff hull shapes designed for 2 different types of anglers and fishing needs.
To keep it simple here...

The MARGO P180 is a skiff for fishermen that want to fish offshore for tarpon in big chop, to be able to fish the channels in good winds and chop and not have your bow going under like lots of the others skiffs today. She is designed to take the loads of gear that goes on Skiffs today and still float on her lines. This design has more vee than the otherboats today like my Old Marquesa design but she will float shallower and will pole better because of the long bow and waterline. All the others are 14-20 year old designs.

The ISLA MARINE 10 Weight Skiff and the LITHIUM Skiff being built by Matacumbe Skiff Weks are both 
designed for fishermen that want the best in shallow water poling ability and quiet when stalking fish. These hulls are designed to be run with low hp very easily in very rough chop and being dryer riding than all my past designs. The 10 Weight design is a refinement of the Lithium Skiff.

Both skiffs can use low hp. The Margo will do great with a 70 hp. The Lithium Skiff hull #1 that I built with a 50 hp Tohasu till ran 34 mph loaded.


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Here’s the hull differences from the bow looking aft


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

@Chris Morejohn Thank you! I forgot the Lithium/10wt skiff was nearly flat-bottomed, and didn't realize that the chines on the Piranha stayed sharp so far forward. Now I'm wondering how the Lithium would be with a little more deadrise, or with a fuller/plumb bow...

I love seeing all the theory and ideas materialize when your skiffs get built. Thank you for sharing!


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Here’s a picture sent to me of the Piranha Margo P180 reverse spray strake in action.
Just think if I had tried to patent this design way back in 1997. Lots of Skiff builders would not be able to use it.
It really works and that’s why I don’t like patenting things that can be of use to others when you are in a small market. 
The upper spray rail catches the leftovers. The builders report that she is very dry.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Sweet picture!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

But correct me if I'm wrong, but it's looks a little tippy.


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Some more pictures to add to this thread.
Notice





















the clean running wake and all the reserve bouancy in this skiff design.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Chris, I'm sure you use this forum to get direct and honest feedback, aside from promoting the product and your ideas. No doubt you are a hipster and trendsetter in this industry and your generous sharing of your ideas are second to none. I can honestly say that the general concensus of this board is one that we all wait in anticipation for any comments and ideas you share with this community and for the most part, are very impressive, especially with your history in the industry. So with that, I give you all due respect that you deserve and I'm sure that is the mind set of the majority of the members of this skiff site and community.

So with that being said, I'm going to play the devil's advocate on this one and want to give you my honest non-bias opinion without subjecting any discredit to you personally.

There was many things about the Lithium that were really great improvements and the lines of the boat sure made it stand out in the crowd. Still, I haven't seen much in the way of chatter about people ordering them and wonder if they are in a holding pattern with any production. I don't know much about the 10wt either.

But this new skiff you are talking about with this radical sharp entry, that mimics the bow of a tug boat or trawler, looks a little over-keel (pun intended), looks like it has more forward displacement than necessary, looks like a potential of pre-maturing spray coming up off the front entry if it starts to hit some chop and then really requires those spray rails to hold that spray at bay. As you can see, even with 2 anglers on the bow, the nose still rides higher than need be and the stern looks like it's squatting. So in any situation, the boat never sits level. Also the boat is extremely narrow and since your center of gravity is so high (I bet your fuel tank also sits high in the bow compartment), the thing appears tippy and it probably is. Finally, that bow just makes the boat look ugly, though it may be functional, it's just not a sexy looking boat as some of the others that have come off your drafting table.

I'm going to go on by saying off-hand, that the freeboard sitting so high out off the water will be like a sail and the guy on the PP will be constantly fighting a crosswind, tho I can see that your long extended keel due to the sharp entry, like a sailboat, would help to hold the bow centerline in the direction for which it's being poled and help to track it a little straighter in the wind. But it wouldn't be easy to spin the boat on a dime with that keel. So with that, there are plus' and minus'. I would think if the front entry was tucked back under (say halfway between what you have and what is normal on some of your other skiffs), the bow wouldn't ride so high and the lines of the boat would be more appealing. You may even have less problems with spray off the front entry. I once had a 26ft CC boat with a very sharp front entry that also didn't have much flair to the bow and going fast, once you started cutting lots of chop at those speeds, you were going to get wet with spray.

Believe me, I love the idea of keeping the bow up higher than normal since I also do a lot of tarpon fly fishing and at least 60% of the time, I'm dealing with waves and rollers, constantly. But there has to be some middle ground between form, function and fashion as they would say. Yes, a bow that wouldn't spear waves and would also ride up over them. I like the idea of splitting waves to soften the bounce and high enough spray rails, chines or gunnel hang-over to avoiding any water cupping to make more noise than necessary. But can't it be done with more moderate changes, without drastic changes to the look of the boat, such as that 90 degree front entry? I think it's possible.

I'm sure the molds of this one is already finished. But what do you think? Was that really the look you were shooting for on this one?

I may get some boos and hisses from members here, but this is my own personal opinion on the subject and I'm not speaking for anyone else here but myself. Sure, this can be a niche boat for that particular person or guide for that particular fishing situation (hence the reason that HB got started with the whip!). I'm just not sure that the look of it will appeal to the masses. But hey, maybe you are not shooting for that, or maybe you are. Who knows. 

Ted Haas


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## Chris Morejohn (May 12, 2014)

Ted,
Thank you so much for much needed observations and opinions done in such a gentlemanly way.
I love talking skiffs, and all boats so this to me is great. Let’s start....

Ok first off I feel I have been fortunate to have been able to design skiffs lately getting others to build them and in the end we all get to see how they perform. The hard part is once my drawings leave my hands I lose control to some extent of my vision. 

The Lithium Skiff project was a great learning curve starting with Tom Gordon getting my design and completely changing it to having it get built to my hull lines specs by the guys in the Keys. We all learned a lot from this very radical by today’s skiffs thinking design. Unfortunately it has stalled out in the partnerships of the 3 guys involved and at the moment as far as I know I am the only one to have built a completed Skiff from the hull mold with myself and a some help building the deck plug and mold to finish my Skiff.
I built this skiff to have total control over what I felt it should be built like and fitted out. Also to sell and make enough $ to sail for a season. All went well for me and I am very happy with this design.

Now what happened along the way was Brian Floyd one of the 3 partners of the lithium Skiff molds wanted to 
Not end up with what he had just gone through with the lithium Skiff partnership so he asked me to design a next evolution of it. We both had spent lots of time testing and running the lithium Skiff.
End result is the Isla Marine 10 Weight Skiff design. Brain asked for a design where he could use the CNC plug to build 3 different hulls from with different sheers.

At present the 10 Weight molds are done and Brian has been having a time getting company’s to follow through on building parts for him even after committing to do them. Such is boatbuilding in today’s economy. My guess is he will have a Skiff out there running in a few months. 
This design to me should be a fantastic technical Skiff for hardcore real poling guys stalking flyfishing aficionados. I can’t wait to see it on the water. It has the potential to make all my past designs of this category classics.

So as you all can see getting a boat drawn and then built is another thing. I’am used to drawing,building,testing and then selling under my own roof. I wish all boatbuilders well. 

When we first launched the Whipray there was a huge pushback at the Skiffs looks and price. First off the finished hulls less engine were selling for $9,800.00 and that was out of line to most everyone except those that could afford it. Next was the looks, OH MY GOD! look at that upper chine how ugly! The bottoms hooked and you are going to die in a Skiff that purports to weigh under 400 lbs. you will get pounded to death.
This changed slowly as we got people to go for a ride.

Alas lots of stuff is in the eye of the beholder.
I for one am not shy of drawing up what I see as practical first and then try and make it look good second.
In today’s day and age the SUVs that are the norm today look like oversized Tonka trucks to me but try and get people in the USA to down size. Hence the MARGO Skiff design.

Yes for sure she is not your average looking same as usual Skiff shape at all from stem to stern. I have explained my design idea at length in my two blogs. When the owner of Piranha Boatworks came to me to design a flats Skiff to add to his fleet of bayboats and regulars skiffs I sat down with him and exsplained what I saw in the market.
First off most all the designs out there were 12-20 year old designs except the new Beavertail skiffs.
Hells Bay old, HPX old, Chittum Skiff a copy of the HPX and old design, East Cape nothing new,
Drake Skiff cool upper spray rail but my old bottom design. I can go on.
What I saw and Mike Held agreed with was the need for a Skiff that could bridge the gap of a flats Skiff and be a good rough water Skiff for guys that want to carry all of today’s gear. Hence the added displacement.
This is a Skiff that needs to be wet tested. 
Unless you want classic old school. I have been working redesigning the CUDA CRAFT line to bring it up to today’s thinking. Now there’s a cool looking Skiff. But it’s not for everyone.

Now I love honest criticism. But it helps if you have actually been out in the said boat. From that I really learn. First thing I always ask is, how was it? Tell me everything. Now two guys can be in the same Skiff and give two different critics. No problem I take it all in.
I feel this design will not be for everyone for sure. But once people get in her and try her out then we will have to see how it goes. The owner is very happy with his design. 

Now when I design a new Skiff I have the good luck to have drawn all my designs to the same scale of 1-1/2”=1’ all on velum paper. This means I am probably one of just a few designers that can compare my past 32 other Skiff designs hull shapes to my current vision knowing from my past builds how they worked or could be tweaked. I love this process. I would really enjoy sitting down and showing you all my shapes against each other plus others shapes as I have measured many other skiffs to learn from them.

Tomorrow morning I will be donating all my original design drawings to the IGFA to be kept in their library for all to see and for me safe keeping as I cannot have them on my sailboat anymore.

To end my short explanation I will get you all to think of this, there is no huge buying market out there.
Just think... Hells Bay has not built 2000 Skiffs in 20 years, Chittum Skiffs just reached 50 Skiffs built last year over a 14 year run. East Cape? Maybe just over 1000 Skiffs, Beavertail under 1000 Skiffs, Maverick HPX many thousands for sure. We can go on. The thing is it’s not close to 10,000 Skiffs over a 20year period. I am not going to add in SUPs,kayaks and such.
It’s a very heathy market now with everyone building skiffs but just because my CONCHFISH Skiff build gets 
Over 23,000 veiws here it does not mean that if you could ship out a 1000 of them next week at $12,000.00 each fully rigged they would all sell.

Now please lets all keep up the dialogue. It’s the reason I read the treads here when it’s civil to see what you all the consumers of the market see, need and want.
I will post a couple of pictures of my design process with this Skiff.

Thanks,
Chris Morejohn

PS 
I will post soon my two latest designs for WHITE TIP BOATWORKS and HAYARRI POWERBOATS.
These two are all about looks. Looking forward to all your thoughts on these.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Chris Morejohn said:


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If you have a 12k conchfish fully rigged you would probably put everyone out of business quickly.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Chris thanks for the explanation of Ted’s concerns/opinions on the Margo. Frankly I had some of the same questions. I hope you are pleased with all the new folks building your designs, both companies and one offs, I know I am. I’ve followed Brian’s progress on the 10wt but was concerned when he was subbing out the hulls. My understanding is that almost put Chittum skiffs out of business, I think their all in house construction boats are far superior to the hulls they outsourced. I am interested in seeing your new designs and following the builds! I will be interested to see if any of them have a steeper deadrise. One thing I like about east cape, Cayo and Chittum is the offering of different deadrise on their skiffs at least the evo, 180 and Islamorada. Looking forward to admiring your future designs!
I may be wrong but I bet the fellow in edgewater offering conchfish hulls will have more business than he knows what to do with!


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

Chris Morejohn said:


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The bad thing is
They won't let u post one on here for sale with a 115!
Ha


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

Fishshoot said:


> Chris thanks for the explanation of Ted’s concerns/opinions on the Margo. Frankly I had some of the same questions. I hope you are pleased with all the new folks building your designs, both companies and one offs, I know I am. I’ve followed Brian’s progress on the 10wt but was concerned when he was subbing out the hulls. My understanding is that almost put Chittum skiffs out of business, I think their all in house construction boats are far superior to the hulls they outsourced. I am interested in seeing your new designs and following the builds! I will be interested to see if any of them have a steeper deadrise. One thing I like about east cape, Cayo and Chittum is the offering of different deadrise on their skiffs at least the evo, 180 and Islamorada. Looking forward to admiring your future designs!
> I may be wrong but I bet the fellow in edgewater offering conchfish hulls will have more business than he knows what to do with!


Who did they outsource the hulls too?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

They will, just in the Misc Boating and fishing classifies.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Fishshoot said:


> Chris thanks for the explanation of Ted’s concerns/opinions on the Margo. Frankly I had some of the same questions. I hope you are pleased with all the new folks building your designs, both companies and one offs, I know I am. I’ve followed Brian’s progress on the 10wt but was concerned when he was subbing out the hulls. My understanding is that almost put Chittum skiffs out of business, I think their all in house construction boats are far superior to the hulls they outsourced. I am interested in seeing your new designs and following the builds! I will be interested to see if any of them have a steeper deadrise. One thing I like about east cape, Cayo and Chittum is the offering of different deadrise on their skiffs at least the evo, 180 and Islamorada. Looking forward to admiring your future designs!
> I may be wrong but I bet the fellow in edgewater offering conchfish hulls will have more business than he knows what to do with!


Who's offering the conchfish hulls in Edgewater?


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

el9surf said:


> Who's offering the conchfish hulls in Edgewater?


Chris Posted this contact info in another thread: 

Skiff Outfitters LLC
407 Timaquan Trail #21
Edgewater Florida
32132
1-386-315-6561
[email protected]
Look him up on Instagram as So bursted


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

The email kicks back. You gotta add a "s" to the front of it.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Backwater said:


> The email kicks back. You gotta add a "s" to the front of it.


Are you thinking of getting one made Ted?


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## Padre (Jul 29, 2016)

Chris Morejohn said:


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I love it. But then again, I too come from a sailing background. And I own a Native SUV 17. When I went to pick up my Native, they started to talk to me about bow steer and I said, "I grew up sailing." and Erin said, "Oh, then you know what you are doing." That is what that plumb bow entry reminds me off, sailing on a Farr 40.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

yobata said:


> Are you thinking of getting one made Ted?


Just asking for a friend!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Padre said:


> I love it. But then again, I too come from a sailing background. And I own a Native SUV 17. When I went to pick up my Native, they started to talk to me about bow steer and I said, "I grew up sailing." and Erin said, "Oh, then you know what you are doing." That is what that plumb bow entry reminds me off, sailing on a Farr 40.


Padre, I think your SUV 17 you have, Hal made from an original Johnsen skiff (I think they were like 14'8"+/-). No doubt Hal tweaked and stretched it. I had one of those Johnsens and loved that little skiff for what it was. So I too appreciate the sharper entry. It's definitely help to compensate for displacement in the bow. But then again, it wasn't as radical as this 90 degree entry, that the Johnsen/Native entry was still a decent look to a guy that lives the "skiff life" (not "sailboat life").


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