# How many bait fish?



## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Disagree fly fishing takes skill. Anyone can fling live bait. Fly fishing is mostly like hunting imo. Plus who wants to pole a bait well full of water .


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Believe it or not live bait fishing does take a certain amount of skill but it is very simple compared to conventional lure fishing and definitely fly fishing. 
You 100% full time hardcore fly fishermen are something special. I love to fly fish but sometimes it just seems like punishment to watch a guy on the bow of my boat breaking fly rods, tripping over fly line, having a fish break a fly off because it ran and the rat’s nest of line couldn’t pass through the stripping guide...but I get it. It is a skill that if you see executed gracefully that is really something special and refined.


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Believe it or not live bait fishing does take a certain amount of skill but it is very simple compared to conventional lure fishing and definitely fly fishing.
> You 100% full time hardcore fly fishermen are something special. I love to fly fish but sometimes it just seems like punishment to watch a guy on the bow of my boat breaking fly rods, tripping over fly line, having a fish break a fly off because it ran and the rat’s nest of line couldn’t pass through the stripping guide...but I get it. It is a skill that if you see executed gracefully that is really something special and refined.





Smackdaddy53 said:


> Believe it or not live bait fishing does take a certain amount of skill but it is very simple compared to conventional lure fishing and definitely fly fishing.
> You 100% full time hardcore fly fishermen are something special. I love to fly fish but sometimes it just seems like punishment to watch a guy on the bow of my boat breaking fly rods, tripping over fly line, having a fish break a fly off because it ran and the rat’s nest of line couldn’t pass through the stripping guide...but I get it. It is a skill that if you see executed gracefully that is really something special and refined.


We fly fishers are the top of the food chain!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

mike_parker said:


> We fly fishers are the top of the food chain!


You can’t bait me that easily...
See what I did there?


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You can’t bait me that easily...
> See what I did there?


Very well played!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I love fly fishing... and I also like every other kind of fishing - except for using hand grenades or other explosives (don’t ask...). I find it perfectly okay to use two different kinds of gear at the same time -primary angler with a fly rod in the bow while his (or her) partner is using spin or plug casting gear in the rear, for example...

Remember many of us only took up fly fishing after learning every other kind of gear -as opposed to freshwater where many fly anglers grew up using fly gear as their only way of fishing...

What I don’t like are those that think that one way of chasing fish is superior (or better than any other)... 
Along with that are those that...

I’ll stop here before I end up down the rabbit hole.... Remember fishing in all of it’s various forms from a simple hand line all the way to gear so expensive that the maker will never consider me as a customer.... is supposed to be fun.

Be a hero -take a kid fishing...


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Disagree fly fishing takes skill. Anyone can fling live bait. Fly fishing is mostly like hunting imo. Plus who wants to pole a bait well full of water .


Kindly disagree. Hardest part about fishing/hunting/f’fing is finding and understanding your prey. That’s the case for bait and fly fisherman. I assume you can learn a lot from watching a permit react to a live crab and how the crab reacts to the permit. That knowledge may help on the vise, how to strip, when to set or where to cast.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Believe it or not live bait fishing does take a certain amount of skill but it is very simple compared to conventional lure fishing and definitely fly fishing.
> You 100% full time hardcore fly fishermen are something special. I love to fly fish but sometimes it just seems like punishment to watch a guy on the bow of my boat breaking fly rods, tripping over fly line, having a fish break a fly off because it ran and the rat’s nest of line couldn’t pass through the stripping guide...but I get it. It is a skill that if you see executed gracefully that is really something special and refined.


I'm not a fly fishing snob either I like throwing artificial mainly bait casters. I just don't use bait often. But if you're a guide I'm all for you using live bait you gotta catch fish to make money.But down in Swfl unless you're sight fishing a shrimp last about 10 seconds against any mangroves as our snapper are thick.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backcountry 16 said:


> I'm not a fly fishing snob either I like throwing artificial mainly bait casters. I just don't use bait often. But if you're a guide I'm all for you using live bait you gotta catch fish to make money.But down in Swfl unless you're sight fishing a shrimp last about 10 seconds against any mangroves as our snapper are thick.


If you have to throw bait to catch fish to survive you’re probably in the wrong business...one of my best friends is a guide here and “has” to throw bait to make money because most googans don’t want to throw plastic.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you have to throw bait to catch fish to survive you’re probably in the wrong business...one of my best friends is a guide here and “has” to throw bait to make money because most googans don’t want to throw plastic.


Yes sir I'd never be a guide down here I fish for fun and fix air conditioners for money which is very lucrative down here since it was in the high 80s today.


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

I use spin and bait casters with artificials all the time. Being a bass fisherman, I have learned to cover a lot of water....and quickly. I'll wear out a trolling motor battery and anyone on my boat tying to keep up. The fly rods are always rigged and ready to go, but I'll be damned if I'm going to blind cast them all day. As for bait fishing..... ain't nobody got time for that sheet!! It is very productive, and the only way one of my buddies fishes. He's a catcher and I'm a fisher. I'd rather spend an entire day to catch only 1 on a fly I tied to his hundred caught on bait. And.... he's given me his fly rods and gear. So, no I can honestly say a bait fisher will not make a good fly fisher. Go to a trout stream in the mountains one day. You'll see what you're up against. The evidence is everywhere!!


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

“A great baitfisherman will make an evenbetter fly fisherman”. From the OP. 

Could be I suppose, more so perhaps for the bait fishermen that catch their own bait. They could come to know what it is the predator fish want as forage and get a knowledge of which forage works best for different types of fish. They pick up on bait sign as to know where to toss a cast net or where to set the bait trap. 

I like to fish with bait, but hardly ever do it. My kids when they were little liked to fish the surf with bait so we’d go out there with our cast nets and minnow seines and see what we could catch. That was half the fun, working with the nets. I was constantly busy either catching bait, tossing out the sets, reeling in fish and re-baiting or fixing rigs the sharks messed up. 

I live on a lake, an old natural oxbow with a variety of resident fish. Every once in a while, I’ll catch a bluegill with the fly rod and then toss it out there alive on a decent sized circle hook, Maybe with a little weight and maybe not, and see what turns up. Half the time, it’s a big old bass, but Gar and catfish love the gills too. 

My buddy and I will go out in his Blue wave out behind the surf and set out bigger rods with cut bait for bull redfish. It can get pretty fast and furious and it’s fun reeling in those 40” plus fish. 

Bait is work, catching it and keeping it alive, constantly re-baiting. Tying on a fly or lure is a lot easier and less messy. I rather not deal with aerators, mullet fins, shrimp horns, crab pinchers, dragging around bait buckets and all the terminal tackle. My cousin likes to soak live croaker for speckled trout. I’ve never fished with a croaker as bait, but evidently, a speckled trout has a hard time saying no to one of those barking monkeys. Seems like my cousin spends a small fortune on the croaker and then tons of time tracking down the one bait stand that still has them. 

Fishing with Lures and flies, that’s a lot less of a big hassle and mess than bait fishing. Plus, as my old beach neighbor used to say “I’d rather fool them than feed them”. Very true.


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## Andrew Jones (Mar 22, 2016)

I do believe bait fishing provides building blocks for fly fishing. Skills are learned while bait fishing. If I took a 5 year old fishing, I would take them to a pond with a small hook and a can of worms vs. putting them on a skiff and sight cast to reds. When people first start out fishing, no matter the age, they just want to catch fish - it doesn't matter how. Let them have fun and don't expect them to want to fly fish the next time out. It may or may not come naturally over time.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Andrew Jones said:


> I do believe bait fishing provides building blocks for fly fishing. Skills are learned while bait fishing. If I took a 5 year old fishing, I would take them to a pond with a small hook and a can of worms vs. putting them on a skiff and sight cast to reds. When people first start out fishing, no matter the age, they just want to catch fish - it doesn't matter how. Let them have fun and don't expect them to want to fly fish the next time out. It may or may not come naturally over time.


I guess my son is the exception. He sight casts redfish all the time with me on lures and got his first unassisted sight cast redfish when he wasn’t even 4 yet. He just turned 5 last month. You have to teach them patience young these days. Too much BS iPads, crazy cartoons and nonsense clouding their minds.


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## Andrew Jones (Mar 22, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I guess my son is the exception. He sight casts redfish all the time with me on lures and got his first unassisted sight cast redfish when he wasn’t even 4 yet. He just turned 5 last month. You have to teach them patience young these days. Too much BS iPads, crazy cartoons and nonsense clouding their minds.


There are definitely some exceptions! You are blessed!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)




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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Str8-Six said:


> I heard a quote today that was really interesting. “A great bait fisherman will make an even better fly fisherman”.












I might argue the opposite. Sight fishing different locations on different tides with the fly rod is a good way to physically observe fish and make mental notes on where and when to come back with your kid(s) and a bucket of shrimp or creek chubs.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Sometimes I tip my flies with a piece of shrimp


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

SomaliPirate said:


> Sometimes I tip my flies with a piece of shrimp


Cajun Thunder "Indicators"?


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Since I fish a lot of beginners - there's some days when it's "Bait-R-Us" but don't overlook some of things that bait can occasionally do for you -that might just teach you a thing or two.... Yep, I'm perfectly comfortable fishing big tarpon in open interior bays out of Flamingo and other places... I'll have an angler with either a lure or a fly up front as we ease the 100 to 300 yards with either pushpole or trolling motor (set at low speed to be as quiet as possible...) to get to where we can see the fish to cast at... Along the way, if practical, we might just have a live bait (ladyfish mostly) 100 to 150 feet behind us under just enough balloon or float to keep it off the bottom swimming along - and getting more and more nervous.... The bait rod (the heaviest on my skiff with 20 or 30lb line and an 80lb leader) will be in the rear rodholder on the side that is away from where my fly angler's back cast will have to be.... I tell my anglers to ignore the bait rod unless it bends over and starts screaming... Lots of places that hold big tarpon - don't reveal them at all... Like I said -you might be surprised... Of course if a shark hits the bait rod we'll be tying on another hook and dropping another live bait back behind us... Some days we actually get double headers that way which can turn into a real circus... The dark waters of the interior in the 'glades are what make this possible... I doubt it would work in clear waters like Biscayne Bay or down in the Keys... 

Here's another tactic that really works well with any beginning fly angler that we employ occasionally - particularly in summer or fall when there's lots of whitebait around... I'll fill the live well with white baits then we'll run from spot to spot doing a bit of live chumming.. I won't even have my angler pick up a rod until we see those livies getting popped - and it works like a charm since I can set up my skiff just within the angler's capabilities and the fish that are there are really turned on if you do it right... The things that will surprise you? Really great looking spots with no one home at all... or when you toss your baits at the structure or point - but they actually get popped one or two hundred feet away... and not where an angler would normally toss their gear.... Live chumming can be an education.... in itself.


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## Finsleft258 (Oct 7, 2018)

I can agree with that statement. For me, it's in the fisherman's ability to understand the casting mechanics. 

I will say that I would delineate even a bit further. I think an ultra-light live bait fisherman will make an excellent fly caster. 

If you're out there with chicken rigs, big weights, and hefty terminal tackle, there isn't much feel to the whole endeavor. If you're weapon is a long, light spinner with a tiny reel, very light line, and no weight, slinging small threadfins, then the feel becomes important. The anglers that can do that consistently without slinging the bait off the hook every third cast seem to have better presentation skills. I think that comes from learning how to feel the rod loading.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

SomaliPirate said:


> Sometimes I tip my flies with a piece of shrimp


I just had a mini stroke I laughed so hard.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

SomaliPirate said:


> Sometimes I tip my flies with a piece of shrimp












???


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## LTChip (Jan 18, 2017)

I think being a great fly fisherman can make you a great bait fisherman more than the other way around. Because it is much less productive and much less forgiving of mistakes, fly fishermen tend to develop a better sense of the fish behavior, reading water/structure, weather, tides, natural bait/prey patterns, and even boatmanship from a fishing perspective. Most of the bait fishermen I fish with or see fish are far less sophisticated and skilled in nearly all of these categories--it's much more a lazy man's game IMO.


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