# School me on 7wt line choices



## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

I'm interested in expanding my horizons and moving to a different line for my daily driver 7wt.
Ive been throwing the rio redfish for a couple years which I'm guessing is really more like a 9wt.. Great inside 50' but it really is a chore to stretch it out much past 60' and I'd like something with a longer taper for stealthier presentations and longer shots at spooky fish.
I think I've heard good things about the Cortland liquid crystal lines in the past but I can't remember.

Let me know what you guys think?

Also, Rod is a Proaxis-x #7


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

This topic was just covered to its death in a thread about the Scott Tidal:

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/looking-for-scott-tidal-review.42959/

There's lots of good of info in there.


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Ah. That pretty much covers all of my questions and then some


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

It's hard to say this without coming across like a jerk, but I'll say it anyway. If you're having trouble getting much past 60' with Rio Redfish, the problem is more likely with your technique than it is with your line. Maybe a few lessons would be a better investment.


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> It's hard to say this without coming across like a jerk, but I'll say it anyway. If you're having trouble getting much past 60' with Rio Redfish, the problem is more likely with your technique than it is with your line. Maybe a few lessons would be a better investment.


While I'm positive that I could benefit from professional instruction.. I've also always put a priority on being able to place a fly where I want it, quickly, over being the guy that can aerialize 120' of line and punch a perfect loop across the casting pond on my 11th false cast. 

That said, I can see the benefits of being able to hit something 90' into the wind and I'd like to get there. I just don't think the redfish line is the best tool for that job.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

The redfish line isn't great for distance, it's too heavy. Also not what it's designed for. Even if you are a good caster that line doesn't lend itself to holding loops well at 60-70ft, everything starts to collapse.

I'm a huge fan of the Cortland lq but I don't like it with the rec recoil guides. Otherwise I have it on most of my rods. For that rod the wulff btt is going to be hard to beat.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Or if you really want distance move to a bonefish line. You will sacrifice in making quick short shots though.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I like elsurf9 recommendations except the bonefish line, unless you are throwing flies that small.

On another note, when someone refers to "aerializing line" it's not how much you shoot in the air, but is how much you carry before you shoot. So how much are you carrying with that rod before you shoot?

With a 7wt anything, the rod will flex further down the rod blank so all you really need to do is just get the head out of the rod tip and shoot it. It will go. If not, then, aside from the line, you might want to look at what you are doing with casting technique, as Vertigo mentioned. Aerializing more than the head, like I mention on that other thread, is over weighting the rod and then when you punch it to shoot, you then are over powering the rod, then everything collapses. Also, do forget that segment about fly sizes I previously mentioned. So with that line, try not aerializing so much line (just the head) and slowing down the shoot and you might get a little more distance. Otherwise, go back to what el9surf suggested.


Ted


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Guys, I appreciate the detailed responses! I ended up going with a Bermuda Triangle Taper to replace the redfish line on my 7wt as that seemed like the best option after I considered all the other recommended options.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I think you will be happy with it. It's an awesome line.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Glad you found a decent fit. These days I really try and not even look at what size the line claims to be in the box. 

I prefer to look at grain weight and head length. Some of the manufactures don't publish grain weights on the boxes or sites, but a quick call to their tech lines solves this. Most of my rods I have had for 3-5 years and for most I can tell you about how much grain weight I want for that given rod for the situation im fishing.

Once you start doing this I feel it makes it that much easier to know your going to be happy with a line before casting it, most times.

I really like the cortland liquid crystal clear 7wt on my 6wt BVK for clear water spooky reds, and carp.

For short shots or launching big flies it gets spooled with the rio outbound 6wt( closer to an 8wt line).

Just some food for thought. I also never pass up an opportunity to toss a buddies different lines on my rods.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Guys, I appreciate the detailed responses! I ended up going with a Bermuda Triangle Taper to replace the redfish line on my 7wt as that seemed like the best option after I considered all the other recommended options.


Did that BTT come with welded loops? Fly shop tied loops? Did you make your own loops? Or did you just tie your backing and/or leader to the line?


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

MariettaMike said:


> Did that BTT come with welded loops? Fly shop tied loops? Did you make your own loops? Or did you just tie your backing and/or leader to the line?


I ordered it online so I don't have it on hand yet, but I believe they come with welded loops. I'll be cutting them off and whipping my own using a bobbin and thread, as I've seen welded loops break under not very much stress, and the braided loops that I tried in the past didn't last long at all.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MariettaMike said:


> Did that BTT come with welded loops? Fly shop tied loops? Did you make your own loops? Or did you just tie your backing and/or leader to the line?


Mike, yer just loopy! 

With a 7wt, it doesn't really matter if you use the loops or not. Those welded loops will be fine for a 7wt line. If Caleb has fish big enough to be busting those factory welded loops, then he has a bigger problem than those loops!


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Mike, yer just loopy!
> 
> With a 7wt, it doesn't really matter if you use the loops or not. Those welded loops will be fine for a 7wt line. If Caleb has fish big enough to be busting those factory welded loops, then he has a bigger problem than those loops!



Haha. I'm the king of the dinks most of the time.. But I remember breaking a welded loop on something stupid like a 3lb Jack one time and I haven't trusted them since. Same goes for the Airflo braided loops, they don't have a good track record either in my book.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

texasag07 said:


> I prefer to look at grain weight and head length. Some of the manufactures don't publish grain weights on the boxes or sites, but a quick call to their tech lines solves this. Most of my rods I have had for 3-5 years and for most I can tell you about how much grain weight I want for that given rod for the situation im fishing.
> 
> Once you start doing this I feel it makes it that much easier to know your going to be happy with a line before casting it, most times.
> 
> ...


With all due respect..... One day I'm going to post a thread that will get a lot of boos and hisses from all the technical purist out there, who are counting fly line grain weights. Now then, I'm not gonna going off base here on this thread (Caleb's thread), but here is some food for thought. Think about when the *affta* chart made (1959) and what style of rods were being used back then (slow bamboo and fiberglass rods), relative to the faster graphite/carbon fiber rods designed and used today. Even the majority of fly lines used back then were level lines and double taper lines and the Weight Forward (WF) fly lines were hardly in the picture. Today in the year 2017, in nearly 58 years since then, _*affta*_ has *done nothing* to update their chart with the newer rod technologies and technical flyline tapers used today, for the more aggressive fly casting and fly fishing we do today, than back then where a double haul and cast over 60ft in windy saltwater conditions were unheard of. 

I can sit here and blow holes in that theory all day long with the best of them! 
Just sayin.... 

Ted Haas


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Haha. I'm the king of the dinks most of the time.. But I remember breaking a welded loop on something stupid like a 3lb Jack one time and I haven't trusted them since. Same goes for the Airflo braided loops, they don't have a good track record either in my book.


Did you tie your butt section of your leader direct to the loop, like I see some people do(with something like a simple uni knot or clinch knot?), or did you do a loop to loops connection with your leader system?


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Did you tie your butt section of your leader direct to the loop, like I see some people do(with something like a simple uni knot or clinch knot?), or did you do a loop to loops connection with your leader system?


Always use a loop to loop connection. I feel like tying directly to the fly line loop with a clinch knot is asking for problems.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> With all due respect..... One day I'm going to post a thread that will get a lot of boos and hisses from all the technical purist out there, who are counting fly line grain weights. Now then, I'm not gonna going off base here on this thread (Caleb's thread), but here is some food for thought. Think about when the *affta* chart made (1959) and what style of rods were being used back then (slow bamboo and fiberglass rods), relative to the faster graphite/carbon fiber rods designed and used today. Even the majority of fly lines used back then were level lines and double taper lines and the Weight Forward (WF) fly lines were hardly in the picture. Today in the year 2017, in nearly 58 years since then, _*affta*_ has *done nothing* to update their chart with the newer rod technologies and flyline tapes used today, for the more aggressive fly casting and fly fishing we do today, than back then (where a double haul and cast over 60ft were hardly unheard of). I can sit here and blow holes in that theory all day long with the best of them! Just sayin....
> 
> Ted Haas


Interesting topic, I was just looking at the chart the other day referencing a line. The problem I think most of us run into is we expect an 8 WT rod to automatically match up well with an 8WT line. Rods come in all different actions and flex patterns and line weights may vary significantly within the same weight class. It can create an expensive headache trying to find the right combo.

Any new rod I get usually gets lined with my favorite line. Coincidentally I end up with a bunch of rods that all like the same lines.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Always use a loop to loop connection. I feel like tying directly to the fly line loop with a clinch knot is asking for problems.


Ok, I like your thinking! 

So if you don't trust it, then use one of those braided 30lb loops or do a single or dbl nail knot with the same leader material you use for the 1st leg of your butt section of your leader (30lb whatever) and then do a loop, 3-6 inches away from that. Then you can continue doing a loop to loop connection with your leader section.

Maybe coconutgroves has some experience with the welded loops that Wulff does on that BTT line.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

el9surf said:


> Interesting topic, I was just looking at the chart the other day referencing a line. The problem I think most of us run into is we expect an 8 WT rod to automatically match up well with an 8WT line. Rods come in all different actions and flex patterns and line weights may vary significantly within the same weight class. It can create an expensive headache trying to find the right combo.
> 
> Any new rod I get usually gets lined with my favorite line. Coincidentally I end up with a bunch of rods that all like the same lines.


Yea the endless rod designs, material technologies, mandrel tapers, as well as all the different fly line designs, tapers, cores, textures, outter materials used, sinking, floating, lengths of heads and tapers, including running line technologies, is enough to drive anyone crazy, from noob to expert! So many variables for so many different fishing situations.

I also recommend what feels best for a person who will be using that rod and line "MOST" (or roughly 80%) of the times and situations. The rest will work itself out.

You might be on the right track, but that is not always the case. On the flip side of the coin, it's a technical sport, which makes the search for what feels the best for you within your budget, part of the fun. 

Ted


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I ordered it online so I don't have it on hand yet, but I believe they come with welded loops. I'll be cutting them off and whipping my own using a bobbin and thread, as I've seen welded loops break under not very much stress, and the braided loops that I tried in the past didn't last long at all.


I've used their welded loops for years without any issue. Try them out first, I think you'll be pleased.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> With all due respect..... One day I'm going to post a thread that will get a lot of boos and hisses from all the technical purist out there, who are counting fly line grain weights. Now then, I'm not gonna going off base here on this thread (Caleb's thread), but here is some food for thought. Think about when the *affta* chart made (1959) and what style of rods were being used back then (slow bamboo and fiberglass rods), relative to the faster graphite/carbon fiber rods designed and used today. Even the majority of fly lines used back then were level lines and double taper lines and the Weight Forward (WF) fly lines were hardly in the picture. Today in the year 2017, in nearly 58 years since then, _*affta*_ has *done nothing* to update their chart with the newer rod technologies and technical flyline tapers used today, for the more aggressive fly casting and fly fishing we do today, than back then where a double haul and cast over 60ft in windy saltwater conditions were unheard of.
> 
> I can sit here and blow holes in that theory all day long with the best of them!
> Just sayin....
> ...



I don't use the chart, I simply talking of using the grain weight of the head to get close to what I want.


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