# What's the closest skiff out there to a Waterman 16?



## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

The 16 Whipray shares the same hull as the 16 Waterman…different cap design. Don't get any closer than that.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Net 30 said:


> The 16 Whipray shares the same hull as the 16 Waterman…different cap design. Don't get any closer than that.


An older Whipray (like that 98 in the for sale section), yes, but a new Whipray is a good bit heavier and would need at least a 50 hp. Would some of the lighter options provide more similar performance to the lightweight Waterman 16?


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Also, Glasser is working on a new skiff that seems like it might fit the bill as well.


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## Troutset (Aug 23, 2015)

pt448 said:


> Seeing the rebirth of the "ranking skiff makers" thread got me thinking. My dream skiff is a Waterman 16 (preferably tiller), but y'all know how rarely those come up for sale. Of the skiffs currently available new, which do y'all think get the closest to the Waterman 16 in terms of function, performance, weight and hp requirements? Below is a list of the ones I came up with, but it's strictly based on 2nd hand knowledge. Which one's the closest and are there any I'm missing?
> 
> Ankona Copperhead
> Spear GladesX
> ...


Just picked up my Cayo last week. Everything is way above my expectations. It is not a waterman, but not far from a glades skiff.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I've heard there are a few Beavertails floating around that are pretty close.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

jmrodandgun said:


> I've heard there are a few Beavertails floating around that are pretty close.


Lol, very true, but I'm pretty sure they're closer to the 18 than the 16. Unless I'm missing something, in which case I'm very interested.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Any thoughts on the IPB16, being built by bonefish now? Dimensions seem spot on. Simple, shallow skiff that will perform well with a 30hp tiller. Haven't heard much since bonefish took over though. I would assume the build quality is better now (it wouldn't take much)


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

Other than a 16 whip, nothing.


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## Troutset (Aug 23, 2015)

pt448 said:


> Any thoughts on the IPB16, being built by bonefish now? Dimensions seem spot on. Simple, shallow skiff that will perform well with a 30hp tiller. Haven't heard much since bonefish took over though. I would assume the build quality is better now (it wouldn't take much)


IPB16 is a fiberglass Jon bote. GladesX is the best non HB comparison to waterman I think.


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## T Bone (Jul 24, 2014)

Skull Island 16. Nothing compares to a waterman 16 tiller, but, the SI16 tiller that I have is a sweet little rig.


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## Otter (Sep 7, 2015)

pt448 said:


> Seeing the rebirth of the "ranking skiff makers" thread got me thinking. My dream skiff is a Waterman 16 (preferably tiller), but y'all know how rarely those come up for sale. Of the skiffs currently available new, which do y'all think get the closest to the Waterman 16 in terms of function, performance, weight and hp requirements? Below is a list of the ones I came up with, but it's strictly based on 2nd hand knowledge. Which one's the closest and are there any I'm missing?
> 
> Ankona Copperhead
> Spear GladesX
> ...


Why try to duplicate if you can have the real thing?!?!?! I know I've said this 100 times but my skiff will be up for sale. Hopefully sooner not later. My old name was SpruceCreek on here. In the proces of getting my password reset. But the guy with the 03' Pro I've been trying to buy called me a few days ago. Took a tree thru the wheel well in his SideXSide broke 3 ribs and punctured a lug. Lived thru 3 surgeries and is good to go. He called to tell me that story and that he's getting to old for the skiff and he'd like to get with me in the near future to talk prices again. Only doubt I have is when I asked him if he was selling his SideXSide he said yep... Bought a highlifter (Bigger and badder one) Anyways I've been slowly but surly fixing mine up little by little. Going thru the wiring, buffed the hull, pressure washed the inside of all the hatches... She's really cleaned up nice. On another note was delivering mail in edgewater today instead of PO. (I'm a carrier for USPS in Port Orange) and was looking at all the nice skiffs in town. Ran into a guy with an 07' Gordon tiller 16'. We BSed for a half hour or so and I was telling him how I used to drive thru Edgewater knocking on people's doors looking to buy an old HB. We started talking about a particular tiller 16' waterman with a 40hp Merc. It's hull number 2 or 3. Told him it wasn't at the guys house anymore. (It's been sitting untouched for a good 2-3yrs.) He told me the guy had recently brought it to HB for them to sell. Don't know how true the story is but you might want to look into it. 

Thanks, Evan (Sorry in advance for my horrible spelling, punctuation, and grammar.)


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## Otter (Sep 7, 2015)

http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s613/evan_ott1/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsa64xo6c1.jpg

http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s613/evan_ott1/Mobile Uploads/image_zpso46fp3be.jpg

Not to high jack the thread but that's what I'm looking to get in next


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Troutset said:


> IPB16 is a fiberglass Jon bote. GladesX is the best non HB comparison to waterman I think.


Isn't that what the first whipray was designed to be, a fiberglass Jon? I agree that the gladesx is awesome and is probably number 1 on my list.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Otter said:


> Why try to duplicate if you can have the real thing?!?!?! I know I've said this 100 times but my skiff will be up for sale. Hopefully sooner not later. My old name was SpruceCreek on here. In the proces of getting my password reset. But the guy with the 03' Pro I've been trying to buy called me a few days ago. Took a tree thru the wheel well in his SideXSide broke 3 ribs and punctured a lug. Lived thru 3 surgeries and is good to go. He called to tell me that story and that he's getting to old for the skiff and he'd like to get with me in the near future to talk prices again. Only doubt I have is when I asked him if he was selling his SideXSide he said yep... Bought a highlifter (Bigger and badder one) Anyways I've been slowly but surly fixing mine up little by little. Going thru the wiring, buffed the hull, pressure washed the inside of all the hatches... She's really cleaned up nice. On another note was delivering mail in edgewater today instead of PO. (I'm a carrier for USPS in Port Orange) and was looking at all the nice skiffs in town. Ran into a guy with an 07' Gordon tiller 16'. We BSed for a half hour or so and I was telling him how I used to drive thru Edgewater knocking on people's doors looking to buy an old HB. We started talking about a particular tiller 16' waterman with a 40hp Merc. It's hull number 2 or 3. Told him it wasn't at the guys house anymore. (It's been sitting untouched for a good 2-3yrs.) He told me the guy had recently brought it to HB for them to sell. Don't know how true the story is but you might want to look into it.
> 
> Thanks, Evan (Sorry in advance for my horrible spelling, punctuation, and grammar.)


Spruce, I would love the real thing and hopefully one day will have one, but I'm roughly 2 years out from buying anything because of school. Also, being in Louisiana, if one does come up for sale, getting to it before someone else will be a challenge. I'm just looking for something similar to get me by until I can get a Waterman. It'd be great if I could buy yours when you get your Pro. I remember when you had it for sale. It's perfect, but the timing would have to be right. No worries about the hijack. Pics of great skiffs are always welcome.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

tuckerbocala said:


> Skull Island 16. Nothing compares to a waterman 16 tiller, but, the SI16 tiller that I have is a sweet little rig.


I really like the Skull Islands, but ideally I'd like something a little wider. Just personal preference.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

I can give specs for the Spear Glade X Epoxy Prototype:
17'-6" centerline length
6'-0" beam widest
5'-4" beam @ transom
4'-1 1/2" bottom width @ transom
3 1/2" draft light load with 25 + hp 2 stroke Yamaha @ 106 # and 12 gallon gas tank in bow, 12 volt battery and bow mounted 45# trolling motor and (2) 50 quart too cool chests and fishing gear for one.
350 # completed hull weight
16" transom height
This is my third florida flats skiff, 16'-8" Hoog, 18' Shipoke
I can fish ponds only kayaks and tunnel tower boats can access, very happy with performance.


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## Capt. Gregg McKee (Sep 28, 2007)

The Mitzi 16 is easily the closest to the Waterman in terms of all around performance and dimentions. I owned a Mitzi 16 rigged with a Merc 40-4Stroke during the first summer I spent on Matlacha in 2009. My neighbor across the street had a 98 Whipray (hull #42) with a 25 Yamaha tiller and I spent the following three months on both boats. Each skiffs fished almost identically; dead quiet, nice ride in smooth water, a little wet but not too bad in the chop, and effortless to pole. The Whip did float about an inch less since it was lighter but both skiffs could get shallower than any Pine Island redfish would ever tail. They were great boats and I had a blast on both. I also paid $8,000 for my 99 Mitzi and sold it at the end of the summer for $8,500 after cleaning it up and advertising it on this site. My neighbor still has his Whipray and won't sell it.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

stephenchurch said:


> I can give specs for the Spear Glade X Epoxy Prototype:
> 17'-6" centerline length
> 6'-0" beam widest
> 5'-4" beam @ transom
> ...


Got any pictures of this boat? How well does it run with the 25 2 smoke? I might be in the market for a hull soon.

Edit- Never mind, I found your build thread.


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

tuckerbocala said:


> Skull Island 16. Nothing compares to a waterman 16 tiller, but, the SI16 tiller that I have is a sweet little rig.


what SI16 do you have?


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

What's the difference in HP rating between a SI and Spears boat. 

A 16 Waterman's recommended HP rating is up to a 40hp.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Capt. Eli Whidden said:


> What's the difference in HP rating between a SI and Spears boat.
> 
> A 16 Waterman's recommended HP rating is up to a 40hp.


I believe they both have a 30hp max. The spear glades x is a good bit bigger but with a simpler finish than the Skull Island.


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## T Bone (Jul 24, 2014)

BayStYat said:


> what SI16 do you have?


I have the sky blue one from Mobile with the Yamaha 25 2 smoke on the back


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

T Bone said:


> I have the sky blue one from Mobile with the Yamaha 25 2 smoke on the back


ahhh, Chads skiff.

I had the black SI with the first side console. I loved that skiff


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## T Bone (Jul 24, 2014)

BayStYat said:


> ahhh, Chads skiff.
> 
> I had the black SI with the first side console. I loved that skiff


That one was sweet! 

I love mine too. It still ceases to amaze me every time i go out in it.


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## sickz284u (Mar 8, 2012)

For a skiff that has the same capabilities etc I'd throw the EC Caimen into the mix.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

sickz284u said:


> For a skiff that has the same capabilities etc I'd throw the EC Caimen into the mix.


I think you're right that the caimen would be a better comparison than the glide because the glide is so narrow. Curious about how the caiman would perform and price out with a simple setup, 30/40 hp tiller. I think it might need too many horses and be more than I want to spend.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Convo sent.


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## kenb (Aug 21, 2015)

pt448 said:


> I believe they both have a 30hp max. The spear glades x is a good bit bigger but with a simpler finish than the Skull Island.


My 16 Waterman is rated for 50hp.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

kenb said:


> My 16 Waterman is rated for 50hp.


I've seen a lot with old 40hp Mercs or re-powered with newer 40/50 options. I'd personally like a little less weight on the transom, but the extra juice is always nice. If money were not a factor, a new tiller Whipray would be the way to go. I think the IPB 16 and lowcountry/tavernier 16 (max hp is 40 tiller/50 console) are the closest that fit the budget. The Cayo is longer and narrower, but still a good option. While the Glades X doesn't match as close on dimensions or hp, I think it still fits the "essence" of the Waterman being super skinny and simple.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

The Skull islands always intrigued me. The only that ever turned me off was HP rating. 

I still wouldn't mind taking a ride in one some day.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

jmrodandgun said:


> Got any pictures of this boat? How well does it run with the 25 2 smoke? I might be in the market for a hull soon.
> 
> Edit- Never mind, I found your build thread.


Heavy load (2) 200# men (2) 50 qt chests, gear, rods, 12 gal gas, 28 gps speed, light load 1 person 2 boxes rods 12 gals gas, 32-33 gps


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## Skinnyreds (Jan 23, 2007)

The Bossman Karma 19, while a little bit narrower is another thought as well.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Skinnyreds said:


> The Bossman Karma 19, while a little bit narrower is another thought as well.


Thanks, Skinnyreds. That's a good one to throw in the mix.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

The Copperhead is the same dimensions 16'4 LOA 70" Beam. If you go with a lodge edition or back country it will be more simple like old school waterman with little power. But the Tournament Series with a 60 ETEC will fly over 40MPH, as mine did.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

paint it black said:


> The Copperhead is the same dimensions 16'4 LOA 70" Beam. If you go with a lodge edition or back country it will be more simple like old school waterman with little power. But the Tournament Series with a 60 ETEC will fly over 40MPH, as mine did.


Thanks, Eric. I've been an internet fan of Mel's boats ever since finding this site. The only reason they're not higher on my list is that Ft. Pierce is a looooooooong way away. If a used one pops up in the Houston to Tallahassee range it will definitely get a look.


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## Lifeaquatic (Jul 18, 2010)

The closest is the Spear Boatworks Low Tide Legend.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Lifeaquatic said:


> The closest is the Spear Boatworks Low Tide Legend.


Are there any pics out there other than that one prototype? I've scoured the web trying to find pics of Spear's boats and have found a few guides and glades x's out there, but not the legend.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

pt448 said:


> Are there any pics out there other than that one prototype? I've scoured the web trying to find pics of Spear's boats and have found a few guides and glades x's out there, but not the legend.


Last time I talked to Harry a couple months ago about the legend he was still working on the mold. Interested in the low tide legend as well as the cayo 17.3. The pricing on the cayo is very good for what you get. Haven't seen one in person but going to try and wet test in a couple weeks. It's a tad bit bigger than the 16 whip / waterman.


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## tj14 (Sep 8, 2013)

_ It's a tad bit bigger than the 16 whip _

Huh?? Its longer but way narrower, only a 62" beam and that's at the deck with its overhang. Its really a micro like the Glide and ShadowCast, not like a Whip at all.....


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

The Cayo is longer, but narrower as said above. The Spear Low Tide Legend is 16'4" and only 64" beam. Around 72" would be mo better. Anybody check out Glasser's Facebook page recently? Looking pretty good.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

tj14 said:


> _ It's a tad bit bigger than the 16 whip _
> 
> Huh?? Its longer but way narrower, only a 62" beam and that's at the deck with its overhang. Its really a micro like the Glide and ShadowCast, not like a Whip at all.....



Haven't seen one in person, no idea of how their dims carry to the water line. But yes it is longer and narrower. Guess " tad bit bigger" could be interpreted in different ways.


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

el9surf said:


> Haven't seen one in person, no idea of how their dims carry to the water line. But yes it is longer and narrower. Guess " tad bit bigger" could be interpreted in different ways.


http://www.skinnyskiff.com/2015/11/02/new-skiff-glasser-boatworks-whipray-killer/


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Dillusion said:


> http://www.skinnyskiff.com/2015/11/02/new-skiff-glasser-boatworks-whipray-killer/


Yeah I saw this in person when Jon was doing the strips. Looks really good. Not a huge fan of the transom but I know he can do just about anything that a customer wants. I'm sure a flat transom is an option. I believe this one is wider than a 16 whip. Don't know specific dimensions.


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## Otter (Sep 7, 2015)

el9surf said:


> Yeah I saw this in person when Jon was doing the strips. Looks really good. Not a huge fan of the transom but I know he can do just about anything that a customer wants. I'm sure a flat transom is an option. I believe this one is wider than a 16 whip. Don't know specific dimensions.


It's 5'10" I'll tell you how she rides on Sunday.


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## DangerD (Aug 27, 2015)

With at 62" beam, the Cayo is on the narrower end of the scale, but if you ride on one you'll find that it is not nearly as tippy as you would think. You could easily walk down the gunnels. What you give up on width, you gain on pole-ability. You could literally pole this skiff with two fingers. And 17'3 is a nice length.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Add this one to the list.
SaltMarsh Heron
http://www.microskiff.com/threads/saltmarsh-heron.36570/page-2#post-2945


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## YnR (Feb 16, 2015)

pt448 said:


> I think you're right that the caimen would be a better comparison than the glide because the glide is so narrow. Curious about how the caiman would perform and price out with a simple setup, 30/40 hp tiller. I think it might need too many horses and be more than I want to spend.



There's a recent Caimen that was a bare bones setup with a tiller Tohatsu 30 with no floor or hatches. Don't know the performance specs but could give EC a call.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

YnR said:


> There's a recent Caimen that was a bare bones setup with a tiller Tohatsu 30 with no floor or hatches. Don't know the performance specs but could give EC a call.


Thanks, man. It'll actually be a while before I buy, but that's one of the possibilities. I figured I wasn't the only one out there with an interest or wondering about skiffs comparable to the old waterman/whipray 16 and thought a collaborative effort would yield a good discussion and comprehensive list of possibilities.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

YnR said:


> There's a recent Caimen that was a bare bones setup with a tiller Tohatsu 30 with no floor or hatches. Don't know the performance specs but could give EC a call.


I believe that was actually my buddies skiff. I sold him that 30hp Nissan / Tohatsu off of my Gen 1 copperhead a few years ago. It was a one off built by an employee, who did the interior that way. The interior layout then had some work done by the guys at Shallow Water Customs, then it went back to ECC for more work. My buddy barely used it, it sat in his garage as he has both a new Maverick and a HB Professional. 

To my understanding, that was the only one built that way.


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## YnR (Feb 16, 2015)

paint it black said:


> I believe that was actually my buddies skiff. I sold him that 30hp Nissan / Tohatsu off of my Gen 1 copperhead a few years ago. It was a one off built by an employee, who did the interior that way. The interior layout then had some work done by the guys at Shallow Water Customs, then it went back to ECC for more work. My buddy barely used it, it sat in his garage as he has both a new Maverick and a HB Professional.
> 
> To my understanding, that was the only one built that way.


The one you speak of was the olive green one sale recently, no? I spoke with the owner. He seemed to like the combo and had good things to say about it. 

There was another more recent one built with an interesting rod storage system in the forward deck.


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## RobA (Aug 21, 2015)

YnR said:


> The one you speak of was the olive green one sale recently, no? I spoke with the owner. He seemed to like the combo and had good things to say about it.
> 
> There was another more recent one built with an interesting rod storage system in the forward deck.


There has to be a better way to do that trolling motor plug.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

YnR said:


> The one you speak of was the olive green one sale recently, no? I spoke with the owner. He seemed to like the combo and had good things to say about it.
> 
> There was another more recent one built with an interesting rod storage system in the forward deck.


Yeah my buddy had the hunter green one. That's an interesting build in that video, as it has a molded cap with the bare bones interior. My buddies didn't have the molded cap, I like that molded cap one much better. I'm intrigued by that rod storage on the deck, although it looks a bit weird. I'd imagine having to put a strong awkward bend on the rod to get those reels to clear on their way out.


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## YnR (Feb 16, 2015)

paint it black said:


> Yeah my buddy had the hunter green one. That's an interesting build in that video, as it has a molded cap with the bare bones interior. My buddies didn't have the molded cap, I like that molded cap one much better. I'm intrigued by that rod storage on the deck, although it looks a bit weird. I'd imagine having to put a strong awkward bend on the rod to get those reels to clear on their way out.


Yea, it wouldn't take me long to destroy some nice hardware with that setup but it's what the customer wanted.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

DangerD said:


> With at 62" beam, the Cayo is on the narrower end of the scale, but if you ride on one you'll find that it is not nearly as tippy as you would think. *You could easily walk down the gunnels.* What you give up on width, you gain on pole-ability. You could literally pole this skiff with two fingers. And 17'3 is a nice length.


False!

I'm a fan of the Cayo, but its a tippy little thing if we're being honest.


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## Tommy1 (Mar 3, 2016)

http://chrismorejohn.blogspot.com/2016/01/thomas-hayes-new-flats-skiff-build.html
There is a better way to do trolling motor plugs than run them across the entire deck. Like make an optional hatch that houses the plug like the one in this blog. And throw a cleat in there while you're at it to get less clutter on the deck. Dock line and/or trolling motor cable can pass through with the hatch closed.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Tommy1 said:


> http://chrismorejohn.blogspot.com/2016/01/thomas-hayes-new-flats-skiff-build.html
> There is a better way to do trolling motor plugs than run them across the entire deck. Like make an optional hatch that houses the plug like the one in this blog. And throw a cleat in there while you're at it to get less clutter on the deck. Dock line and/or trolling motor cable can pass through with the hatch closed.


That is fricking awesome. No (visible) hinges.


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

pt448 said:


> Any thoughts on the IPB16, being built by bonefish now? Dimensions seem spot on. Simple, shallow skiff that will perform well with a 30hp tiller. Haven't heard much since bonefish took over though. I would assume the build quality is better now (it wouldn't take much)


I can't speak much to that particular hull, but I can attest to the build quality of Bonefish. I really enjoyed my build and have had my boat over a year and the quality has been great. No rattles or flex, absolutely no stress cracks, great wiring and the gel shines. They have built a couple of the 16s since mine was done, and to my knowledge they redesigned the cap to make it much cleaner and multi-purpose.


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