# Speaking of new fishing rules



## Mike C (Feb 27, 2017)

Has anyone seen the new "No Entry, no fishing, no dogs, etc" signs posted around the certain areas of bird island and sunken island at the mouth of the Alafia?

They are being placed by the same conservation organization that cares for the land masses there. 
How can they exclude anyone within the boundaries made if those boundaries are outside of the low tide lines? 
Is this even legal?
I'll get some pics of the signs next time I'm out there. 

What are your thoughts on this?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

This thread might get bumped to the Off Topic forum, but it might have something to do with "Big Phosphate." They may have something to do with owning it and just using some phantom "environmental group" to keep people off of it, sighting bird sanctuary or environmental sensitive area, but the real underlying issues can either be liability issues or it's too close to observe what they are doing on that spoil island straight out from it, in the bay.


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## hunter4626 (Aug 7, 2016)

Backwater said:


> This thread might get bumped to the Off Topic forum, but it might have something to do with "Big Phosphate." They may have something to do with owning it and just using some phantom "environmental group" to keep people off of it, sighting bird sanctuary or environmental sensitive area, but the real underlying issues can either be liability issues or it's too close to observe what they are doing on that spoil island straight out from it, in the bay.


These islands are being designated nesting areas for different shore birds,the state wildlife people are behind this.


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## Mike C (Feb 27, 2017)

hunter4626 said:


> These islands are being designated nesting areas for different shore birds,the state wildlife people are behind this.


The islands are already posted. What is changing is that they are posting signs 30 yards from the low tide shore line. 
Can't see how that's legal in any way, shape or form.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Mike C said:


> The islands are already posted. What is changing is that they are posting signs 30 yards from the low tide shore line.
> Can't see how that's legal in any way, shape or form.


It's called Littorial Rights, which says if your property line goes out to or even into the water a certain distance, then the owner has the right to keep people off those property lines. Those property lines are defined in the original survey of the property, which could very well be out there in the low tide area. So this gives the "Owner(s)" the "Right of Exclusion" (one of the "Rights" of the 5 bundle of rights for property ownership). So they can put signs out there and "exclude" any unauthorized people from coming on the property.

THIS is my suspension that those properties (islands) are own by "Big Phosphate."


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## Mike C (Feb 27, 2017)

Okay, I understand. 
The reason I posted this was in response to the new law signed by Gov Scott.
Why would he need to sign a new law that is already covered? 
Are beaches treated differently?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

hunter4626 said:


> These islands are being designated nesting areas for different shore birds,the state wildlife people are behind this.


Blah, blah blah blah..... Call it what you want. It's a ploy, that includes greasing palms to get what they want.

Currently, "Big Phosphate" has a 2ft dia pipe, extending from one of their defunked gyp stacks at Port Manatee and dumping the contaminated sulfuric acid and phosphate enriched overburden water, off the top of the gyp stack and dumping it thru that pipe into Tampa Bay near the port, along the old Piney Point road were the old boat ramp use to be. Go see for yourself. That water is highly toxic and kills fish and you don't water to eat fish with those chemicals in them. I suspect they are doing that to back room up on the waster water ponds on the top of those gyp stacks for the up coming hurricane season. So expect a high concentration of *red tide* up inside the SE side of Tampa Bay this year as soon as the water gets hot and we get a lot of rain run offs will cause the the phosphates from that pipe (basically fertilizers) to feed the algae and cause it to bloom. It will be a big one!

FRI, if you don't know what it looks like on top of one of those gypsum stacks (small mountains that are unnatural to Florida), look at it from Google Satellite and see for yourself. If you understood the process of how they extract the phosphate from the rock, you'll know they use Sulfuric Acid to separate the phosphate from the rock and then mix the the by-products in a water smoothie slurry and pump it to the top of those stacks and hope that mother nature evaporates all of it, including the sulfuric acid (the stuff acid rain is made of).

It's a F'ing environmental nightmare! (we have threads on the subject in the "Off Topic Forum" here on microskiff.

So the EPA is in bed with them and has allowed them to do all sorts of shizzits, like dumping that water in barges and transporting it 10 miles offshore from Egmont Key and then 6 months later it caused the worst *algae bloom*/*red tide* we had in history, not long ago, killing tons of fish in Tampa Bay as the tides brought it in.

In return, the EPA get's their palms greased and dumb little things are also transpired in the name of "the Environment" by establishing little eco spots on un-used land which they happen to own for mitigation purposes (I'll give you a bird sanctuary while you turn your head while we dump shit into the bay!).

It's a freakin joke!!! 

Sorry Hunter, I'm not directing this at you, I'm pissed at the BS they keep serving up in the name of the "Environment", so they can get away with BS and no one person or organization has the nads to stand up to them. I'm a republican, but I wouldn't put it pass gov't Scott to turn a blind eye at the situation, so that there will be something in the kitty in some offshore account to ensure a comfortable retirement, just like Obama did, where he frequently takes trips to Dubai these days to enjoy his rewards for all the "deals" he's made.

Sorry, this stuff yanks my chain!


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## Mike C (Feb 27, 2017)

The shitty part of the new signage is that the islands have been posted off limits for as long as I can remember. These signs extend into the water 30 yards, right where fish tend to hang out.

The gypsum stacks and evaporation ponds are beyond being a nightmare.
Gotta have that sheet rock for all the new houses

Added screen shot of stacks and ponds.
You mean these, right? 
Look at the color of the acid ponds.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Sorry to derail but here is an excellent article about phosphate in Hillsborough if anyone wants to read..

https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/articles/2017/4/26/florida-phosphate


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Mike C said:


> The shitty part of the new signage is that the islands have been posted off limits for as long as I can remember. These signs extend into the water 30 yards, right where fish tend to hang out.
> 
> The gypsum stacks and evaporation ponds are beyond being a nightmare.
> Gotta have that sheet rock for all the new houses
> ...


gypsum for drywall is just a mere fraction of a fraction of a percent of what they found that can be done with ALL the leftover by-product that is left over from extracting phosphate from the phosphate rock where it comes from. The other 99.999% is worthless and they have no real use for it. It can never compact, so they can't use it for fill. It's so highly toxic with chemicals like sulfuric acid, that they can't move it from their containment mountains that they created to dump all that gypsum byproduct.

Where they have the real problems is those holding ponds on top of them can only hold so much of it's toxic water and with rains, storms and hurricanes, they can overflow and the end results are a toxic mess overflowing into the creeks that feed Tampa Bay. The end results is fish kills beyond belief and we've had many of such here in Tampa Bay. Not only that, the fish themselves get contaminated and makes me wonder if we should stop eating fish that comes from Tampa Bay and all the rivers and creeks that flow by the gyp stacks.

The EPA is really doing NOTHING about it!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Backwater said:


> This thread might get bumped to the Off Topic forum, but it might have something to do with "Big Phosphate." They may have something to do with owning it and just using some phantom "environmental group" to keep people off of it, sighting bird sanctuary or environmental sensitive area, but the real underlying issues can either be liability issues or it's too close to observe what they are doing on that spoil island straight out from it, in the bay.


Ted,
The phantom "environmental group" is not really a phantom. Those island are managed by the Audubon Society. They have been for 20 years or so and they moved in real quietly. They were also instrumental with the greatly expanded manatees zones as well. Also, back up in the back of the kitchen there is a grass flat that was created and A.S. had it closed to everybody.


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## Fritz (Jan 17, 2017)

Thanks for the rant Ted, I seldom hit the 'Off Topic' section and was not aware of this. I did notice the Red Tide made it's way all the way to Marathon in the FL Keys this winter, numerous fish kills and red tide reports in Flamingo as well.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Went out on Saturday wind was rough. Sorry for crappy pic but notice those buoys. They have a cable encircling both spoil islands but it’s not demarcated with all buoys! Be very careful because in low light conditions I can see someone on plane hopping the cable but grabbing it with the lower unit and getting ejected from your sled.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

DuckNut said:


> Ted,
> The phantom "environmental group" is not really a phantom. Those island are managed by the Audubon Society. They have been for 20 years or so and they moved in real quietly. They were also instrumental with the greatly expanded manatees zones as well. Also, back up in the back of the kitchen there is a grass flat that was created and A.S. had it closed to everybody.


Again.... All in the name of good "stewardship," right (as their BS ads on TV reveals). Hence the case where you have a multi-billion dollar company and industry, donating, contributing (whatever you want to call it) in the tune of $100k's if not a few million, be it publicly known or off the radar, to distract the public and turn heads away from the looming giant problems they've created that lingers over this area.

Oh.... What a nice jesture.... It's a lovely bird santuary....


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Backwater said:


> Again.... All in the name of good "stewardship," right (as their BS ads on TV reveals). Hence the case where you have a multi-billion dollar company and industry, donating, contributing (whatever you want to call it) in the tune of $100k's if not a few million, be it publicly known or off the radar, to distract the public and turn heads away from the looming giant problems they've created that lingers over this area.
> 
> Oh.... What a nice jesture.... It's a lovely bird santuary....


Jeepers Ted - there ya go spoilin' their front.

How about this one. If you own a nice retriever that you use for duck hunting and you buy a license for it because it is a law. The licensing agency is managed by a corporation that sends the money to the mothership who supports anti-hunting.

"There was a time when the ASPCA was more about providing care for animals, half of the ASPCA’s budget came from pet license fees."

ASPCA is NOT your local SPCA.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ok then, I didn't know that. It's a basic analogy of what's going on, except the rabbit hole looks more like that sink whole they created out east about a year or 2 ago.

Meanwhile, that 2ft diameter pipe down by port Manatee, along Piney Point road is still flowing toxic crap into the bay. You don't live far from it. Go check it out for yourself. Also, you'll notice the mound of raw chartreuse yellow colored dry chemical they have piled up with no covering, where the rain run-off has already washed some of it in the ditch that runs along Piney Point Road and out into the bay. You can clearly see the toxic yellow residue still in the ditch. Anyone knows anybody in the EPA who hasn't had their palms greased by big Phosphate? Maybe there is a whistle-blower news crew that can do a story on it.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Backwater said:


> Ok then, I didn't know that. It's a basic analogy of what's going on, except the rabbit hole looks more like that sink whole they created out east about a year or 2 ago.
> 
> Meanwhile, that 2ft diameter pipe down by port Manatee, along Piney Point road is still flowing toxic crap into the bay. You don't live far from it. Go check it out for yourself. Also, you'll notice the mound of raw chartreuse yellow colored dry chemical they have piled up with no covering, where the rain run-off has already washed some of it in the ditch that runs along Piney Point Road and out into the bay. You can clearly see the toxic yellow residue still in the ditch. Anyone knows anybody in the EPA who hasn't had their palms greased by big Phosphate? Maybe there is a whistle-blower news crew that can do a story on it.


Been like that since '04. The news did a story on it and then poof- story time over.

I am certain nobody will be talking and nobody will do any story telling. This game is over. Someday all of the sludge will be washed away and the land reclaimed, then they will report on the new playground and safe space.


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