# Manatees dying this year



## loganlogan (May 8, 2020)

I heard that over 400 manatees have died this year. Compared to 150 per year, typically. Brevard county Florida, is losing its grass and manatees (redfish too) have less food, could be a main reason. Low fwc man power, can't reach the sick ones in time, and there is not enough time to catch/autopsy the dead ones. Is there a solution?


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I heard that the death rate was higher this year. We've had an extended colder winter and I wonder how many of those were due to cold shock. 

I know that food is an issue also. I think they are fencing on some of the eel grass in Crystal River to protect it from over grazing. 

I do wonder what the percentage is versus the total because the population has been on the increase for a couple of decades.

Sorry, no answers but only more questions from me.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Prettty bad from Vero Beach to Sebastian. Could always count on seeing a few during our evening booze cruises but this year, we have only seen 1 mom & calf in over 20 trips. _ALL_ grass is gone and they only thing left for them to eat is a nasty looking rootbeer colored algae that even clogs the trolling motor.....really bad.

I think the Lagoon is totally fucked.....not good.


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

Where'd you hear this information? 

Math sucks, but it's truth. There are more manatees than ever before. The population has been increasing for decades.
Likewise there are more boaters. More irresponsible boaters I should say...

There's less food because of pollution fed algae types and rolling moss that smothers the grass that the speed bumps eat.
With more manatee and less food sources available they'll eventually" adapt and overcome" by leaving the water to graze on the lush yards that line their domain, or they'll starve to death.

This is a test to determine whether or not the evolutionists are right or wrong.


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## Flats Broke (Feb 7, 2017)

Manatees Starving to Death Amid Fears They Could Be Wiped Out From Lagoon


More than 400 of the aquatic mammals have died in Florida so far this year, a stark increase from the 2020 figure.




www.newsweek.com


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

Flats Broke said:


> Manatees Starving to Death Amid Fears They Could Be Wiped Out From Lagoon
> 
> 
> More than 400 of the aquatic mammals have died in Florida so far this year, a stark increase from the 2020 figure.
> ...


I hope the remaining herds grow legs, and a hankering for St. Augustine.


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## LtShinysides (Dec 27, 2018)

So I dunno if this is manatees adapting or just an off group of them, but last year in the keys we had manatees eating the fish scraps we threw in the water after filleting some mahi and blackfin.
They seem to be doing pretty well around my area.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

Can confirm the 400 number in IRL, and scientists are claiming it is due to depleted turtle grass.

Sounds harsh but IMO it is nature keeping things in balance. The turtle grass decline may be from human impacts as well, but every environment has a “carrying capacity” for what it can support.

Hopefully the grass can rebound and the remaining smaller manatee heard will be a healthy one. That is a more ideal goal from a conservation standpoint rather than not having an individual manatee die.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> Can confirm the 400 number in IRL, and scientists are claiming it is due to depleted turtle grass.


We will not know the truth as Scientist will need to keep the study going and their funding coming. It’s a job. Same as the pharmaceutical companies. Now if someone funds a performs a study themselves just for the cause and solution to the lagoon issues we may someday know.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

The fact is there's to much nutrients going into the estuaries. Tampa bay is one of the few in the state that have seen grass regrowth.

Fertilizer, septic, etc. Every HOA wants green grass so they are continuously fertilizing and watering. It's going to take a municipality with some cojones to step up and be a leader here.

I get that's more regulations but clearly this can't continue.


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## Cork (Sep 10, 2020)

Sadly, I learned a long time ago that the results of most scientific research is, "We need more funding for more research."


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I guess it's time to learn to play golf.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

coconutgroves said:


> I guess it's time to learn to play golf.


Bird watching


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Cork said:


> Sadly, I learned a long time ago that the results of most scientific research is, "We need more funding for more research."


 Marine Biologists are critical to this research, but unfortunately, are not a well paid group of professionals. And the education cost is high for the salary in return - especially if someone has a Masters or Doctorate - the cost for those degrees are very high. Many require grants and funding for their work and sometimes that money has a limited timeframe with no guarantees year after year.

I highly admire the profession, it is very critical for the ocean habitat. Dr. Aaron Adams is someone who has bridged science, recreation sport, conservation and education. We need more like him.


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## MudSkipper (Jan 11, 2021)

I've always wondered how manatees would taste. I'll bet they are tender!


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

LtShinysides said:


> So I dunno if this is manatees adapting or just an off group of them, but last year in the keys we had manatees eating the fish scraps we threw in the water after filleting some mahi and blackfin.
> They seem to be doing pretty well around my area.


We've noticed this when visiting, in some of the marinas around cleaning tables.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

What’s the price of a very large smoker. I love fish dip. Manatee dip might be something worth a try.


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## Cork (Sep 10, 2020)

Sooo, you're saying they'll hit on cut bait?


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## 8w8n8 (Sep 30, 2017)

I can see it now!
Scoot-over bonefish and tarpon at B&TT, you got some HEFTY company coming your way … wow, that’s gonna be one big logo. And the permit are really going be PO’d, they get very little celebrity status at the trust … well except for an asterisk or two.


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## matt146 (Aug 18, 2013)

I think we might need bigger boats or hope the slot is on the smaller side


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

here is the good news. if the sea cows go into crisis then there will be a hue and cry to fix the problems we have been trying to get fixed for decades. we may not have any pull but guess who will.


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

Capnredfish said:


> What’s the price of a very large smoker. I love fish dip. Manatee dip might be something worth a try.


can you say "RIBS"?


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

There is no more grass in Brevard. A buddy of mine talked to the environmentalist thats been doing the recovers and they know it's starvation. Mainly because its been cold and they all moved to the powerplants where there is nothing for them to eat anymore. Hell, I'm still wondering why we still have fish around. These Sea Cows are and have been a big part of the sea grass problem in Brevard. Not saying they are to blame but still a big problem.


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

Why is everyone so afraid to speak the truth? The truth is, the conservationists destroyed the grass flats when they began supporting manatees en mass.
Think of it like an actual cow rancher. You need X amount of sea grass to support one sea cow. Problem is, nobody ever looked at the sea grass volume in relation to the sea cow's dietary needs. Then you have to acknowledge the fact that the manatee population has been on the increase for decades. That means more mouths to feed.

When you pump so much money into propaganda designed to make the manatee look like some sort of magical, endangered species people lose sight of the fact that they aren't native to Florida. Our grass flats were never under the constant graze of so many sea cows. I don't believe our ecosystem was created to support them.

That's not even taking into account all the manmade damage we've done. Florida has been loved to death. She's got Tourism AIDS.


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

Feds said manatees weren’t endangered — now they’re dying in droves | Florida Phoenix


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

fatman said:


> Feds said manatees weren’t endangered — now they’re dying in droves | Florida Phoenix


You should change your name to fathead. You just can't stop with the Trump hatred.
You let an "Orange Cheeto Man" live rent free in your tiny cabin-like mind.

Congrats, dude.


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

Xcapnjoe said:


> You should change your name to fathead. You just can't stop with the Trump hatred.
> You let an "Orange Cheeto Man" live rent free in your tiny cabin-like mind.
> 
> Congrats, dude.


I tend to read articles and listen to Captains who work the IRL. They would seem to me to be more informed than some internet jackwagon who's only defense is name calling. The Orange Man has rotted your brain to the point that it no longer holds logic.

BTW, where are you getting that manatees aren't native to Florida?


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

fatman said:


> I tend to read articles and listen to Captains who work the IRL. They would seem to me to be more informed than some internet jackwagon who's only defense is name calling. The Orange Man has rotted your brain to the point that it no longer holds logic.
> 
> BTW, where are you getting that manatees aren't native to Florida?


Go fornicate yourself, fatman.


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

Xcapnjoe said:


> Go fornicate yourself, fatman.


witty....

After some reflection, the article I quoted DOES lay a lot of blame at the foot of the prior administration, which is not fair, in that the water-quality issues have existed before tRump took office....so that's not on him, or his administration. Additionally, the reporter seems to imply that reclassifying the status of the manatees contributed to their decline - which doesn't really make sense. Bottom line, water quality has destroyed the seagrass at an alarming rate (according to my sources who work and live in the IRL) and THAT has caused (as the article states) stress and starvation in manatees. No mention of over-grazing being the issue, more an issue of not enough grass to support the ecosystem. This is what I've heard from people I know that live there.

Kind of like the turkey vs. quail debate here in Kansas: when turkey populations rose and quail took a nosedive, everybody blamed the turkeys for preying on quail. Of course, no one considered that the habitat change had affected the populations of both species.

Also wanted to give a shoutout to @MudSkipper , the article quotes a biologist (Craig Phillips) as saying that manatee meat is delicious.

I'm in the middle of reading The Swamp (recommended by @lemaymiami ) so my radar is tuned pretty sensitive to Florida water quality. Seems like most of the ecological evils down there come back to the same tune.

btw, still waiting to hear your evidence on manatees being invasive....


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Maybe Save The Manatee groups will go after big sugar now.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

More troubling perhaps.... here in the IRL the manatees have begun to dig shallow trenches and eat the remain roots (rhizomes?) of our basically non-existent seagrasses. I think this means that even if our water cleaned up, the grass would take more time to return. Really sad and unfortunate problem.


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

Manatee's dying, maybe we'll get to the truth about what's wrong with the water situation in Florida.. manatees will certainly get more priority than people and business.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sewage


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

Let's think about this. Manatees eat 80 to 150lbs of grass a Day. So they probable shit 60lbs plus (being conservative here). So we take a small canal system like Cocoa Beach area. During the winter months there are at least 40+ manatees ( that's being very conservative) that they call home for 4 months. So 40 manatees in 4 months need to eat about (100lbs a day ea.) comes to *480,000lbs* for only 4 months. Now we have each on shitting 60lbs a day comes to *288,000lbs* of manatee sewage just in the 4 winter months. So that is just one of many small canal systems in just Brevard. We have over 1,000 manatees in Brevard. That's *36.5* *Million* pounds they eat a year, and shit *22 Million* pound a year. 

Yep, nothing to see here,


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## Bonesonthebrain (Jan 2, 2020)

Flatoutfly said:


> Let's think about this. Manatees eat 80 to 150lbs of grass a Day. So they probable shit 60lbs plus (being conservative here). So we take a small canal system like Cocoa Beach area. During the winter months there are at least 40+ manatees ( that's being very conservative) that they call home for 4 months. So 40 manatees in 4 months need to eat about (100lbs a day ea.) comes to *480,000lbs* for only 4 months. Now we have each on shitting 60lbs a day comes to *288,000lbs* of manatee sewage just in the 4 winter months. So that is just one of many small canal systems in just Brevard. We have over 1,000 manatees in Brevard. That's *36.5* *Million* pounds they eat a year, and shit *22 Million* pound a year.
> 
> Yep, nothing to see here,


Thought about it and what point are you trying to make? It is called an ecosystem in case you were not aware. Just think about every little organism in the water eating and shitting, to your logic that is disaster. Do you really think this is the issue?????

Guess all the toxins, pesticides, herbicides, petroleum products, fertilizer, human waste and pharmaceuticals from over 600,000 Brevard residents got nothing on manatee shit.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Bonesonthebrain said:


> Thought about it and what point are you trying to make? It is called an ecosystem in case you were not aware. Just think about every little organism in the water eating and shitting, to your logic that is disaster. Do you really think this is the issue?????
> 
> Guess all the toxins, pesticides, herbicides, petroleum products, fertilizer, human waste and pharmaceuticals from over 600,000 Brevard residents got nothing on manatee shit.


I think we agree on at least one thing.


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

Bonesonthebrain said:


> Thought about it and what point are you trying to make? It is called an ecosystem in case you were not aware. Just think about every little organism in the water eating and shitting, to your logic that is disaster. Do you really think this is the issue?????


Well maybe if you lived in our area you just might understand or if you grew up on our lagoon for the past 40 years like I have you would understand that this is a major issue. We do not have a tidal flow like your area so OUR ECOSYSTEM has been stressed out for the OVER POPULATION of manatees for the past 25 to 30 years. I've seen first hand how manatees destroy a grass flat. I seen what they did to our canal system that were pristine. After they eat all the grasses they come back and eat the roots. So fill a swimming pool up and then throw 100lbs of shit in it and plant some grass and see what happens.


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## Bonesonthebrain (Jan 2, 2020)

Flatoutfly said:


> Well maybe if you lived in our area you just might understand or if you grew up on our lagoon for the past 40 years like I have you would understand that this is a major issue. We do not have a tidal flow like your area so OUR ECOSYSTEM has been stressed out for the OVER POPULATION of manatees for the past 25 to 30 years. I've seen first hand how manatees destroy a grass flat. I seen what they did to our canal system that were pristine. After they eat all the grasses they come back and eat the roots. So fill a swimming pool up and then throw 100lbs of shit in it and plant some grass and see what happens.


Think you are confusing cause and causation. The reason why a mere 40 manatees end up damaging areas is because so many other areas have been screwed up by people. Just like if you cut down all the oak trees except for one, the squirrels will eat all of the acorns and no other oak trees will ever grow. The squirrels did not cause the problem.


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

Bonesonthebrain said:


> Think you are confusing cause and causation. The reason why a mere 40 manatees end up damaging areas is because so many other areas have been screwed up by people. Just like if you cut down all the oak trees except for one, the squirrels will eat all of the acorns and no other oak trees will ever grow. The squirrels did not cause the problem.


Understood and if your not familiar with our area it maybe not be so clear. The point was how just a few manatee can impacted and change just one small area. 

So the story of this is this: The Cocoa Beach canals is a small area, one of just many canals systems we have here in Brevard. And like most of Brevard which is 80 miles long and with about 80% with NO tidal flow at all. In the 70's and early 80's the waters in our canals were rich, clean and in the winter months would hold monster trout. At that time you could fish all day and be lucky to see just a few manatees. By1990, the manatees population exploded. They would stay all winter in the canals eating all the grasses and the water has never cleared since then, and you would see manatee turds everywhere. But at this same time almost every canal system in Brevard went through the same thing. Back in those days the fertilizers were a lot worse then they are today. Our sea grass doesn't stand a chance with the amount of manatees we have. One day you fish a beautiful flat, the next day you could tell the manatee herd came through. Wasn't so bad until food got scarce and they started going for the roots. Then comes the algae blooms that wiped out everything.

*Imagine growing up in a World glass fishery with rich grasses and now we fish on the surface of the moon. Now, we are lucky to see one blade of grass all day fishing. It's that bad here. *

Manatees are the pollical correct elephant in the room you can't say anything bad about, but when you watch and see what they have done to our river system I don't care who you are, I'll tell you or anyone they have been a major issue in our area. I've spent 40 years of hardcore fishing this area I'll guarantee you the manatees contribute more sewage then the houses with septic tanks in Brevard county until the treatment plants accidently spill 100's of thousands of gallons into it. We have two power plants that created a winter sanctuary and no longer will they move south in the winter, they stay here year around. 

Over 430 have died this winter in Brevard and there is still twice that just at the power plants alone right now that are only a mile apart... The "Save the manatee people" and state say there are less then 6,000 in the State of Florida which would mean about half live here in one county. (That is BS) In 1991 they said we only had 1,200 in the state; in 1991 Brevard had more then 1,200 manatees. These conservationist full of BS and never listened to the experts when they started planting manatee signs everywhere. 

Our ecosystem wasn't designed to have thousands of sea cow grazing on it year around. Not saying they are 100% to blame but they hold a major part of the problem in our area and I have been saying it for decades because I first hand seen it. Maybe this is the beginning of the lagoon trying to heal itself. It better heal itself because I don't see anyone else doing it. Sad watching conservationist trying to grow oysters where they have never grown and can't, and watching the state allow one of the worlds largest claim bed get plundered and whipped out in less then 2 years. Now its going to take $100 millions to fix. 

And before anyone wants to chime in and say don't bitch about it and do something, I have.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Flatoutfly said:


> Understood and if your not familiar with our area it maybe not be so clear. The point was how just a few manatee can impacted and change just one small area.
> 
> So the story of this is this: The Cocoa Beach canals is a small area, one of just many canals systems we have here in Brevard. And like most of Brevard which is 80 miles long and with about 80% with NO tidal flow at all. In the 70's and early 80's the waters in our canals were rich, clean and in the winter months would hold monster trout. At that time you could fish all day and be lucky to see just a few manatees. By1990, the manatees population exploded. They would stay all winter in the canals eating all the grasses and the water has never cleared since then, and you would see manatee turds everywhere. But at this same time almost every canal system in Brevard went through the same thing. Back in those days the fertilizers were a lot worse then they are today. Our sea grass doesn't stand a chance with the amount of manatees we have. One day you fish a beautiful flat, the next day you could tell the manatee herd came through. Wasn't so bad until food got scarce and they started going for the roots. Then comes the algae blooms that wiped out everything.
> 
> ...


The situation in Crystal River is not so dissimilar to what is mentioned above. The river is a winter sanctuary and they have to fence in some of the eel grass so it's not completely eaten away. They can over graze an area. That part of the state doesn't have the sea grass die offs and can support a population but I doubt the river was historically being grazed to the roots.


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## Bonesonthebrain (Jan 2, 2020)

Did the Manatee’s kill all the grass in the Lagoon, think not. Nature has a way of controlling populations, but it happens over time. Human interactions have accelerated the changes in the environment and the natural population control can not keep up, again it is not a manatee problem.


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

Bonesonthebrain said:


> Did the Manatee’s kill all the grass in the Lagoon, think not. Nature has a way of controlling populations, but it happens over time. Human interactions have accelerated the changes in the environment and the natural population control can not keep up, again it is not a manatee problem.



Dude, I stated: Not saying they are 100% to blame but they hold a major part of the problem in our area .


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## MudSkipper (Jan 11, 2021)

Flatoutfly said:


> We have two power plants that created a winter sanctuary and no longer will they move south in the winter, they stay here year around.
> 
> [/QUOTEt
> 
> There is the issue. You should eat some. We could send some cajuns to thin them out.


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

Flatoutfly said:


> Dude, I stated: Not saying they are 100% to blame but they hold a major part of the problem in our area .


Everybody knows those fat sea cows ate all the dang grass that we humans didn't kill.


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

I'll bring the Tony's!


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## MudSkipper (Jan 11, 2021)

We need a big cast iron pot to make some cracklins. 

I need to find an old painting I saw in a text book. Basically, there was a Spaniard or two telling a joke to some natives in Florida. In the background was a pile of animals that had been caught by the natives, I guess for a feast. You could clearly see a gar, a manatee, and what looked like a bonnet head shark. Interesting stuff.


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## Xcapnjoe (Jun 5, 2013)

MudSkipper said:


> We need a big cast iron pot to make some cracklins.
> 
> I need to find an old painting I saw in a text book. Basically, there was a Spaniard or two telling a joke to some natives in Florida. In the background was a pile of animals that had been caught by the natives, I guess for a feast. You could clearly see a gar, a manatee, and what looked like a bonnet head shark. Interesting stuff.


I used to rock a "Manatee The Other White Meat" t-shirt. It featured a Manatee on a plate with a knife and fork adjacent.

It made the train conductor girl at Busch Gardens say she wanted to cry. That was ten years ago.
The emotional situation of the fragile minded hasn't improved.


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## backwaterbandits (Dec 15, 2006)

Jason M said:


> The fact is there's to much nutrients going into the estuaries. Tampa bay is one of the few in the state that have seen grass regrowth.
> 
> Fertilizer, septic, etc. Every HOA wants green grass so they are continuously fertilizing and watering. It's going to take a municipality with some cojones to step up and be a leader here.
> 
> I get that's more regulations but clearly this can't continue.


Pinellas County has had a rainy season fertilizer ban for several years. People just to to Hills and buy it... Tampa Bay Watch and the Tampa Bay Estuary Program fund a lot of water quality and educational programs. Over time it has helped. The water is cleaner now in Tampa Bay than at any time in my life....I'm 66. There's also waaaay more manatees than there ever was before. Last year a lot of inexperience boaters hit the water and it was really busy in this area. I think 2020 was very busy...more people all the time along with more manatees than ever. Somethings got to give.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

No shortage of them in my area. They're always out having their dirty sex orgies on the flats when I'm trying to fish. Degenerates.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Saw this article this morning Florida manatee deaths spur federal investigation


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## jasonrl23 (Jul 27, 2009)

Jason M said:


> Fertilizer, septic, etc. Every HOA wants green grass so they are continuously fertilizing and watering. It's going to take a municipality with some cojones to step up and be a leader here.


Agreed. Take it one step further. Every HOA with a lake also nukes its water with Glyphosate and Copper Sulfate (or other herbicides). Spraying creates excess nutrients, while also eliminating the nutrient filter. All the nutrients are dumped out of the mismanaged HOA lakes during the rainy season once they exceed their weirs height.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

backwaterbandits said:


> Pinellas County has had a rainy season fertilizer ban for several years. People just to to Hills and buy it...


Not quite.

If you go to the stores look at all of the fertilizer bags and tell me how many you see with a middle number higher than 0. The stores abided by the changes and just quit carrying fertilizer that they would have to switch out depending on the seasons.

We have the same ban here in Hills as does most of the state - what started as a county project, I believe has grown into a state wide program.

Only certified turf managers can buy phosphate rich fertilizers - not the general public. 

It is a big step in the right direction.


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

Manatee Fact

Manatees control the depth they swim at by farting.
When they want to go deeper in the water they fart and reduce buoyancy.

What does this do to the environment?


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

I read the recent report on manatee deaths in the Indian River. Yes, a large number. Yes, they sort of blamed the majority of the deaths on starvation. As we have surmised, the lack of sea grass is having yet another negative impact on our area.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Need to pump more sewage in the water and divert water flow. While they’re at it move in another few million people, what could it hurt?


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