# R8 and trying to define what we like and don’t like about a fly rod



## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

I got to cast a few R8s and it got me thinking about how we explain in words what we are experiencing when we cast a rod or fish a rod. I have noticed that we all say we like X rod over Y rod, but why. How do we explain in word what we are experiencing. Generally I check 2 perimeters when I am testing a rod. I am thinking about accuracy as well, but that seems to be a product of tracking and recovery.
1- how the rod loads at short distances
2- long long of a line can I throw with it. 
most of the time I want a rod that loads quickly but can still cast the whole fly line.
Historically, this means that the tip has to be pretty flexible in order to load short, but as you cast More line the rod loads deeper into the butt, so that, you can shoot a 100 ft cast. Some rods cannot load at short distances and some rods fall apart with 70-80 of line in the air. I want us to discuss our description of what we like in a rod, and attempt to standardize what we are talking about.
I will start with a very brief description of the R8. This rod has an unusually ability to load quickly even though the rod seems very stiff if you just wiggle it in the store. So, I was able to cast at short distances with tons of accuracy. Also, I was able to pick that short cast up and shoot a long cast with a single back cast. The rod feels a little funny at first, because you think that it will not load, but then it does. Conversely, you think since it loads at short distances, it will not carry a long line, but it does. The R8 does not have a noticeable soft tip yet it loads short. How do you describe what you like in a rod, and why did you not like another rod.

mike


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## Featherweight (Jan 7, 2020)

Sounds like an NRX or Scott Sector? Can they ship it?


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## Ironhead (Mar 24, 2021)

I'd like to cast the R8 for myself. What weight rod did you cast? 

As for quantifying what I want in a fly rod, I really can't but I'll know it when I feel it. I like fast with feel in a rod, and a rod I can "get into the power". Where there's feel for short shots but I can flex the rod to another gear and throw long if need be. I think some of that can be adjusted or affected by fly line taper (tuned so-to-speak). So it's a combination of rod action and fly line taper to get a specific result.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

I think a lot of it depends on what line you put on the rod.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

I cast the 6 and 8. Line has a ton to do with it,


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## k_lindsey14 (Sep 8, 2021)

How does it compare to the x and the one? I haven't been able to cast it yet but it seems like it loads better in close.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

It has been too long for me to comment on the One, but I regularly use the 591 X and 691 X.
I really like the 5 and 6 wt Xs, because of the way they Load quickly but can throw the whole line. They feel so good. The R8 is more forgiving, in that, most caster will cast it well. The Xs need a more precise stroke. You can overpower the Xs but not the R8. The top 2 feet of the 8wt X is more flexible; this is a more classical way to get a rod to load quicker. The R8 does not have a noticeable pivot point, per say, but it loads just as quick. In addition, the R8 will load for less experienced casters. It will be easier for them to make the 30-40 foot cast (that is what I mean by forgiving).


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## Bflatisbest (Mar 15, 2017)

As I have progressed in casting, it feel like I desire a saltwater rod that has a good amount of power in the butt section, but a more flexible tip. My go to rods for the longest time have been G Loomis CC GLXs. After trying numerous newer rods, I couldn't find anything that had the power that those rods delivered to present casts quickly inside of 50ft (utilizing SA Grand Slam). Lately I had been trying a Sage X in the 7wt and realized with a lighter, longer headed line, I had more accuracy, didn't have to work as hard, and could cast more accurately at longer distances. I imagine in the heavier weights, these all-purpose style rods could also throw larger flies, but the 7 X did seem to fall apart with a heavier fly or shorter head line at longer distances. You really had to push the rod and a shorter headed line for a long shot - and it was not as accurate as carrying more line in the air with a bonefish line.

Having cast the NRX+ ,Asquiths, and H3s I feel that the newer rods are gravitating towards a softer tip for better feel while maintaining a powerful butt section to really push the rod if necessary. I have always relied on timing and less feel on the Loomis CC GLXs, but after practicing with some of these rods I feel that the X or Asquith aids feedback and confidence, especially when using longer headed fly lines. 

At the end of the day I think it also comes down to what type of flies your throwing and where you are fishing, as well as the wind. There may not be one perfect rod, but I find that some amount of feel and a light swing weight really help at the end of the day. 

How way the swing on the R8 compared to the X? Worth the upgrade?


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Here's what I want. In a 6W, something like a Sage One. In an 8W something like an NRX. And I don't want to send it in because of a great warranty either. I don't want it broken unless I F up.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

K3anderson said:


> Here's what I want. In a 6W, something like a Sage One. In an 8W something like an NRX. And I don't want to send it in because of a great warranty either. I don't want it broken unless I F up.


can you explain why you like the One and NRX?


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## Cambo (Jan 17, 2017)

Mike Geer said:


> can you explain why you like the One and NRX?


Interesting... I might look into that R8. What line were you throwing? 

I like the NRX 1 8wt too but I couldn't tell you why... I guess its the fact that it loads easy for short shots but I can cast 80ft+ without felling like I have to over power it. I paired it with courtland guide taper and to me its just right. I've used other lines like SA bonefish and I felt it was over lined and didn't shoot as well for long casts


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Hate to say, but not sure what the lines were, the typical lawn lines, not Amplitudes.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Bflatisbest said:


> As I have progressed in casting, it feel like I desire a saltwater rod that has a good amount of power in the butt section, but a more flexible tip. My go to rods for the longest time have been G Loomis CC GLXs. After trying numerous newer rods, I couldn't find anything that had the power that those rods delivered to present casts quickly inside of 50ft (utilizing SA Grand Slam). Lately I had been trying a Sage X in the 7wt and realized with a lighter, longer headed line, I had more accuracy, didn't have to work as hard, and could cast more accurately at longer distances. I imagine in the heavier weights, these all-purpose style rods could also throw larger flies, but the 7 X did seem to fall apart with a heavier fly or shorter head line at longer distances. You really had to push the rod and a shorter headed line for a long shot - and it was not as accurate as carrying more line in the air with a bonefish line.
> 
> Having cast the NRX+ ,Asquiths, and H3s I feel that the newer rods are gravitating towards a softer tip for better feel while maintaining a powerful butt section to really push the rod if necessary. I have always relied on timing and less feel on the Loomis CC GLXs, but after practicing with some of these rods I feel that the X or Asquith aids feedback and confidence, especially when using longer headed fly lines.
> 
> ...


Really great post. I believe this type of discussion helps all of us. The original GLX was a big breakthrough; it was light in hand, had a softer tip and a lot of power in the butt. The R8 is a totally different rod compared to the X. I am not selling my 591 and 691, but the 8wt is just a better rod than the X. I believe that most caster will agree that R8 is more user friendly and it does everything better.


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## Bflatisbest (Mar 15, 2017)

Mike Geer said:


> Really great post. I believe this type of discussion helps all of us. The original GLX was a big breakthrough; it was light in hand, had a softer tip and a lot of power in the butt. The R8 is a totally different rod compared to the X. I am not selling my 591 and 691, but the 8wt is just a better rod than the X. I believe that most caster will agree that R8 is more user friendly and it does everything better.


Do you recall what reel was on the rod? Balance well? I find that reel balance is important on the cast as well.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

I know it was a mid weight reel; not a Lamson and not a Seigler. my guess it was in the 6-8oz range.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

A couple of thoughts.

I like a rod with a relatively soft tip. I mainly target redfish in dirty water so I need a rod that can quickly make short accurate casts. However, I also have to be able to make some longer casts and often with windy conditions so a need a rod that has enough power to do that as well.

One thing I don't hear as often is the discussion of the particular line being used during the testing process. Make sure you know what line you are throwing when you try a rod as that can either make the rod seem like a winner or a piece of junk. 

I have seen two tricks by shop guys and tackle reps which affected my thoughts on the performance of a rod. One was a severely overweighted line. This gave the rod a different action than I would have replicated with my true to line weight lines. The second was a short fly line. I was test casting a G. Loomis Crosscurrent GLX and after a few short casts decided to let one rip. Those that know me know I'm not the best caster. However, as I began to strip the line in after shooting all the line out, I noticed that the line seemed kinda thin. I commented to the shop guy how thin the running line felt and he was quick to let me know that I had the backing in my hand, not the fly line. The shop guy knew me well and came clean that it wasn't a 90 ft fly line. However, had he not said anything, I would have just assumed that I just cast this rod farther than I have ever before. I had plans on buying the rod anyway, but I could have fallen in the trap of making an impulse buy on a belief that I could cast the rod farther than I actually could.


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## erikb85 (Jun 13, 2014)

I like buying a rod from a company that has a repair shop that functions properly….you know, for your old customer base that bought the last big thing. It would also be great if the items they previously (and still) market were available and shipping before their newest “space-age” technology comes out. Oh, and how bout that $125-150 repair bill for “classic” flagship rods that were also very expensive not that many years ago. I will never know about their space rod because i (and probably many others) are done with sage.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

erikb85 said:


> I like buying a rod from a company that has a repair shop that functions properly….you know, for your old customer base that bought the last big thing. It would also be great if the items they previously (and still) market were available and shipping before their newest “space-age” technology comes out. Oh, and how bout that $125-150 repair bill for “classic” flagship rods that were also very expensive not that many years ago. I will never know about their space rod because i (and probably many others) are done with sage.


So, you don’t like Sage because of bad warrantee experience? I can respect that. I could add that I want to support USA only companies. What do you like and why?

mike


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## erikb85 (Jun 13, 2014)

I have older sage rods. I won’t buy any new ones. I’ll buy new Scott and keep scouring eBay for desirable older trout rods.


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

Sounds like they are just building a modern version of the T&T horizon series, a rod with a stiffish tip and more midsection bend, taking advantage of newer materials to make it somewhat lighter. I'm sure it will be a nice rod.

Of course, their also marketing over looks the fact that Sage, more than any other rod company, are responsible for pushing the use of stiff rods for decades. A trend that saddled most casters with more rod than they could cast (or 'load' as the common misconception goes) and encouraged line companies to upweight everything in order to provide a crutch to all us poor guys who bought rods well above our skill levels expecting them to improve our casting. If you believed them before you will believe them now. They know it and are banking on it.


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## k_lindsey14 (Sep 8, 2021)

erikb85 said:


> I like buying a rod from a company that has a repair shop that functions properly….you know, for your old customer base that bought the last big thing. It would also be great if the items they previously (and still) market were available and shipping before their newest “space-age” technology comes out. Oh, and how bout that $125-150 repair bill for “classic” flagship rods that were also very expensive not that many years ago. I will never know about their space rod because i (and probably many others) are done with sage.


Sounds like Sage is relatively caught up on their repairs, my sonic got repaired in about a month and a half and I think I paid around $40.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

numbskull said:


> Sounds like they are just building a modern version of the T&T horizon series, a rod with a stiffish tip and more midsection bend, taking advantage of newer materials to make it somewhat lighter. I'm sure it will be a nice rod.
> 
> Of course, their also marketing over looks the fact that Sage, more than any other rod company, are responsible for pushing the use of stiff rods for decades. A trend that saddled most casters with more rod than they could cast (or 'load' as the common misconception goes) and encouraged line companies to upweight everything in order to provide a crutch to all us poor guys who bought rods well above our skill levels expecting them to improve our casting. If you believed them before you will believe them now. They know it and are banking on it.


this is true; I still have 2 RPLXs and they are super stiff, and the wrong tool for most situations.
I regularly use a 9wt Ignitor as a super light 10 wt though.

mike


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## Ironhead (Mar 24, 2021)

I was able to cast the R8 series today. The rod has a different feel. It immediately loaded into the 3/4 to 2/3 mark of the rod, then got into the power. It put me in mind of a Scott Sector (which is a rod I like fishing).
The 890 R8 can generate some line speed, but I'd put an asterisk by my test due to the unidentified shop line used. I liked the 790 R8. This rod was just fun to cast and accurate.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I'd recommend the Rio lives for Sage. I talked to a buddy of mine and who's on the program and confirmed they do most of their testing with Rio.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Jason M said:


> I'd recommend the Rio lives for Sage. I talked to a buddy of mine and who's on the program and confirmed they do most of their testing with Rio.


Rio isn't any better suited to Sage rods than any other brand - they use Rio in testing because Sage and Rio are both owned by the same parent company.


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## HelthInsXpert (Jan 24, 2018)

I bought a 790-4 R8 on Wed from Ole Florida fly shop online. It arrived Saturday and it got me a decent little red on Sunday. 
I paired it with a Hatch 7+ and Orvis Pro Saltwater All Rounder line.

I generally prefer a somewhat softer rod with more feel vs more power, but I was happy with the performance of the R8. It felt super light in hand to me, but then again the rod I fish most often is an older Scott X2S so maybe anything feels like in comparison. 

The R8 was quite accurate at short distances and I was able to pick quite a lot of line off the water in one stroke. Overall I'm happy with the purchase.


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## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

Is Sage going to be coming out with a saltwater specific R8 or will they continue to make the Salt and Motive? Everything I've read on the R8 seems like its geared towards freshwater/light duty fishing.

From Sages website on the 8wt. "Our most versatile and popular all-water rod model. The 890-4 is able to effectively present flies and handle the fight with Alaska trout and salmon, striped bass, largemouth bass or other similarly-sized species."

Nothing more about if the components are salt rated or geared towards bones or reds or any saltwater species. Also as of now the 8wt is the largest weight rod they are making in the R8 series.


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## HelthInsXpert (Jan 24, 2018)

ElLobo said:


> Is Sage going to be coming out with a saltwater specific R8 or will they continue to make the Salt and Motive? Everything I've read on the R8 seems like its geared towards freshwater/light duty fishing.


This probably explains why the guides keep rusting off on my Sage One's LOL. It will probably be the same with the R8 as well.


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## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

HelthInsXpert said:


> This probably explains why the guides keep rusting off on my Sage One's LOL. It will probably be the same with the R8 as well.


The current R8 series is called the R8 "Core". Maybe they will retire the Salt and Motive and come out with the R8 "Salt" series. Hopefully the components are made to handle salty conditions and they come out with some larger weights. The technology sounds cool in the R8 but marketing is marketing.


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

I understand there is a replacement for the Salt HD in process, like later this year.


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## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

Rods are like boats, one can’t do it all. If you want close in, a speed stick ain’t gonna cut it and vice versa. Guys are making some awesome tappers these days that really hit the “fishing” sweet spot though.


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## mfdevin (Jun 18, 2020)

alright, so after 3 ish months, what’s everyone’s favorite lines to use with the r8? I’ve tried a good few, from SA, wulff, rio, orvis(alt SA), and for my type of fishing, my personal overall favorite is the SA redfish amp(slick not textured). I used one of those fancy new airflo lines on the Scott sector down in Florida (thanks Matt foster), and am curious to slap one on the r8 and see how it performs. The wulff BTT is one of my favorite lines on virtually every rod I own, but I did not like it on the r8 at all (in what they call an 8wt, I’m not really sure of the actual grain weight of what they call an 8wt). For some reason it turned the rod into a clunky POS, which given the flex of the rod, and the taper of the line kinda weirded me out.


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