# LITHIUM SKIFF LAUNCHED



## Chris Morejohn

Oh it worked!


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## bryson

Dang, I was just down there last week! I would have loved to see it! I went out with Greg Poland early in the week and he said he knew some guys were working on it, but I had no idea it was that close. Beautiful design!


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## jmrodandgun

Those are some pretty bold statements you got there. I wish people would just be honest about their boats.


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## Flatsaholic

Should post some pictures of the draft. Looks like its drafting 5 1/2" with the one person standing on it.


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## jmrodandgun

A 700 lb hull with a 350 lb outboard, that drafts 5 1/2 inches with 120 pounds of fuel and 4 men on board should be called the Jesus skiff. I'm ignoring the 41 mph at 4800 rpm claim, that's just complete nonsense. When is it going to stop?

I suppose if all four people stood on the bow then maybe you could lift the stern high enough to show 5 1/2. Or maybe it's not 4 grown ups, maybe it's four kindergartners.

This is Chittum level BS


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## mtoddsolomon

jmrodandgun said:


> A 700 lb hull with a 350 lb outboard, that drafts 5 1/2 inches with 120 pounds of fuel and 4 men on board should be called the Jesus skiff. I'm ignoring the 41 mph at 4800 rpm claim, that's just complete nonsense. When is it going to stop?
> 
> I suppose if all four people stood on the bow then maybe you could lift the stern high enough to show 5 1/2. Or maybe it's not 4 grown ups, maybe it's four kindergartners.
> 
> This is Chittum level BS


4 guys with an average of 175lbs per guy is 700lbs, hull 700lbs, engine, 350lbs, fuel 120lbs, 1870 lbs total. Must be made of these...


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## jmrodandgun

This should be a good thread. We have everything needed to get to 10 pages. A whole paragraph full of nonsense claims and a very high probability of someone from the Chittum camp crying and complaining about the spray rails.


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## TylertheTrout2

why would someone who's designed and been apart of the build that is new and innovative lie? lol I think ya'll are d*ck hurt or somthin. Keep up the great work Chris! Looking forward to you putting up some "proof" so the peanut gallery can take a seat lol!


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## TheAdamsProject

jmrodandgun said:


> A 700 lb hull with a 350 lb outboard, that drafts 5 1/2 inches with 120 pounds of fuel and 4 men on board should be called the Jesus skiff. I'm ignoring the 41 mph at 4800 rpm claim, that's just complete nonsense. When is it going to stop?
> 
> I suppose if all four people stood on the bow then maybe you could lift the stern high enough to show 5 1/2. Or maybe it's not 4 grown ups, maybe it's four kindergartners.
> 
> This is Chittum level BS


I honestly do not care if his boat levitates and runs 100mph, but I am curious, not being a smartass, as to your qualifications to call bullshit? I am honestly asking as I do not take Chris to be the guy to blow smoke up our ass but again I do not know him personally so I am just calling it as I see it. Can you explain with either hard evidence, math or any other valid reasoning why what he is claiming is bullshit?


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## Str8-Six

Not calling BS, I would just like to see proof to believe it. If true that is VERY impressive. My micro with a 60 needs 9.5" with two people and this boat with a 90hp and a fiesta of people floats in 5.5"....


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## shallowfish1

Tough crowd.

Maybe the claims are bogus, maybe not. A few do seem unlikely—though I've been surprised by skiffs that match big claims. What I do know is that I've heard Morejohn's name mentioned with respect by folks who know more about skiffs and skiff-building than I ever will, so I'll withhold judgment until we know more about the Lithium.

Str8 wrote: _"this boat with a 90hp and a fiesta of people floats in 5.5"...."_

Haw. For some reason that comment reminded me of this:


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## jmrodandgun

nativejax said:


> I honestly do not care if his boat levitates and runs 100mph, but I am curious, not being a smartass, as to your qualifications to call bullshit? I am honestly asking as I do not take Chris to be the guy to blow smoke up our ass but again I do not know him personally so I am just calling it as I see it. Can you explain with either hard evidence, math or any other valid reasoning why what he is claiming is bullshit?


My qualifications are I'm not a gullible idiot with more money than sense. Look up the speed claims and you will see for yourself but I'm not doing the math for you.


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## Smackdaddy53

jmrodandgun said:


> My qualifications are I'm not a gullible idiot with more money than sense. Look up the speed claims and you will see for yourself but I'm not doing the math for you.


Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning? Kaitlin Jenner?


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## TheAdamsProject

jmrodandgun said:


> My qualifications are I'm not a gullible idiot with more money than sense. Look up the speed claims and you will see for yourself but I'm not doing the math for you.


You could've just said, I have no proof to my claims and can't do the math. I was not counting the speed claim either since you threw it out as "complete nonsense"

Still dont know why everyone gets worked up over claims about skiff's abilities. Same as the MPG claims on window stickers and dressed up women with makeup and fake tits. As with all mentioned, its a ride and decide.


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## Chris Morejohn

Oh boy, this is just like 20 years ago when Hal , Flip and I introduced the Whipray to the flats skiff world. 
The design goal of the LITHIUM was to float and pole shallow with today's skiff loads. Also to be as quiet as possible from the stern and to pole better than my past designs. Next was to try and make the skiff run as dry as possible in a small skiff. Last thing was speed. The design was around the idea of a 50-79 hp engine, three guys max at 225 lbs per guy.
Over the next month I will out line in great detail the numbers on this design as we get to know her with different props and the next hull out of the mold.
You can all see in detail her hull lines and all my thinking on my blogs. I am not hiding anything.
To me all this is fun being part of the evolving skiff design market.
So far real data is myself at 168 lbs, Brian Floyd at 165 lbs and Geneo Baker at 185lbs, 20 gals of fuel,the hull rigged at 700 lbs and the 90 Suzuki running with the three of us reached 34.9 knts on my GPs at 48-4900 RPMs. At 3800 rpms she runs at 25-26 knts.
Draft is designed to be 7" at 1900 lbs weight. She is fitting into these numbers now. 
To me she will be a nice skiff with a 50-70 on the stern.
I as the designer of skiffs will post in real detail the information but the best thing for everyone is to go for a ride. 
It's just like my first show with the Whipray floating in a pond at the boat shows. No one belived it could float in 4" and still be able to go somewhere.
Let's not compare skiffs here lets just look objectively at the new possiblitys in skiff design details that are coming to light like the rounded stern. It really works and I'am very proud of it and happy the guys took a chance on building it.


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## permitchaser

I've seen threads on here where all of you were falling over yourselves to see a new Morejohn design. Now there is a boat and I don't understand the hate. But those specs don't seem believable


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## Finn Maccumhail

Looking forward to see more of this skiff but like Reagan said, "trust but verify."

Good luck with this bad boy.


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## shallowfish1

nativejax said:


> Still dont know why everyone gets worked up over claims about skiff's abilities. Same as the MPG claims on window stickers and dressed up women with makeup and fake tits. As with all mentioned, its a ride and decide.


Difference being that 5.5 inches is not always a number to brag about.


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## mtoddsolomon

I think it looks cool, and if it does what it's designed to do it'll be awesome to see. However any skiff with a 90 and 4 guys drafting 5.5" seems too good to be true. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it.


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## jmrodandgun

permitchaser said:


> I've seen threads on here where all of you were falling over yourselves to see a new Morejohn design. Now there is a boat and I don't understand the hate. But those specs don't seem believable


Not only do the specs not seem believable, one of them is mathematically impossible. I'm sure it's a beautiful boat, there was never any question about that.


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## jmrodandgun

> So far real data is myself at 168 lbs, Brian Floyd at 165 lbs and Geneo Baker at 185lbs, 20 gals of fuel,the hull rigged at 700 lbs and the 90 Suzuki running with the three of us reached 34.9 knts on my GPs at 48-4900 RPMs.


Custom prop?


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## jonterr

Chris Morejohn said:


> Oh boy, this is just like 20 years ago when Hal , Flip and I introduced the Whipray to the flats skiff world.
> The design goal of the LITHIUM was to float and pole shallow with today's skiff loads. Also to be as quiet as possible from the stern and to pole better than my past designs. Next was to try and make the skiff run as dry as possible in a small skiff. Last thing was speed. The design was around the idea of a 50-79 hp engine, three guys max at 225 lbs per guy.
> Over the next month I will out line in great detail the numbers on this design as we get to know her with different props and the next hull out of the mold.
> You can all see in detail her hull lines and all my thinking on my blogs. I am not hiding anything.
> To me all this is fun being part of the evolving skiff design market.
> So far real data is myself at 168 lbs, Brian Floyd at 165 lbs and Geneo Baker at 185lbs, 20 gals of fuel,the hull rigged at 700 lbs and the 90 Suzuki running with the three of us reached 34.9 knts on my GPs at 48-4900 RPMs. At 3800 rpms she runs at 25-26 knts.
> Draft is designed to be 7" at 1900 lbs weight. She is fitting into these numbers now.
> To me she will be a nice skiff with a 50-70 on the stern.
> I as the designer of skiffs will post in real detail the information but the best thing for everyone is to go for a ride.
> It's just like my first show with the Whipray floating in a pond at the boat shows. No one belived it could float in 4" and still be able to go somewhere.
> Let's not compare skiffs here lets just look objectively at the new possiblitys in skiff design details that are coming to light like the rounded stern. It really works and I'am very proud of it and happy the guys took a chance on building it.


So
To clarify!
Did it draft 5.5 with that load?
What I'm hearin is a lot of people would kiss ur ass in public, if it does!


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## mtoddsolomon

So I'm pretty sure that motor should be hitting 6200 rpms, sounds like if it were propped correctly it would lose some speed but perform better all around. What size prop was it?


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## jmrodandgun

If you use 10% slip as a base he would need to be turning a 26 pitch prop at those RPM's to get 41 mph.

Perhaps the GPS is set to MPH and rather than Knots.


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## Barbs_deep

You guys need to talk less and listen more. The man has posted 2 pictures and you guys are a bunch of damn experts on HIS design. Form an opinion once you have actually been on the skiff for christ sake. 

Chris, thank you for bringing your new design to the forum. Can't wait to see more and would love to wet test !!


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## Shallow_Minded

That is a sharp looking boat and I really like the rounded stern design. But the bottom line is that it will probably be a skiff that 90% of the members of this forum will not be able to afford. Thank goodness for the Ankona folks that build a great skiff that the working stiff can afford. I bet I catch just as many fish out of my Salt Marsh Heron for 1/3 the cost. Anyway shes a beaut, good luck with it.


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## Chris Morejohn

Ok everyone....the builder of this skiff Geneo Baker and myself just tried 3 different props with just the 2 of us aboard. The skiff has 19 gals of gas aboard, CG Gear, push pole, and some other gear onboard. She feels light, but this is the plug hull and is built with 1-1/8" high density core cell core as all the bulkheads, flooring and has fairing putty on it. The scantlings are that of a 25' skiff,she is well built.
With a 21" power tech prop we got 5500 RPMs and 35.6 knts
With a 22" prop we got 4800-4900 RPMs and 34.7 knts
With a 4 blade 12.7x 21 we got 5100 RPMs and 34.9 knots
Look up the hull build on my blog..... hogfishdesign.wordpress.com
I have a new chine design and it works very well as we can turn at a good speed say 25 mph without sliding. I will get the nerve up to try it at faster speeds.
The pictures are of the skiff today with Brian Espositos Maverick HPX next to her.
As I am a sailor I use knts on my GPS instead of mph. We used my old Garmin.
I am not in the skiff selling business but in the design end of things. I also like to pass on info to help maybe inspire others. I have nothing to gain by boasting. 
In the end being here in Islamorada plenty of guides like 2 of the guys using the skiff yesterday will say what they see. They both own a 17.8 and a HPX.
The guys that built the Lithium along with me have day jobs so all the info will be as we get the time.
I will put waterline numbers on the hull when we get out to where there is sand to get the "real" drafts to see.
It's fun to try new things. Unlike some skiffs out there I have all my designs on paper so if you look on my blog you can see the shapes and how they have evolved in my head.
I will be building hull# 2 out of the mold and will set it up with a tiller 50 hp and stern box seats to a new design layout. With this we will see what will happen.
When I built the 17.8 back in 1999-2000 those hulls weighed less than 500 lbs and with a Mercury bigfoot would get up to 37-38 mph. They weighed all up less than 1000 lbs.
Today the modern versions weigh way more. I feel a skiff can be too light so it's all got to be thought out in advance.
Will let you know what's up soon as I can. But best thing is to take her out.


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## sickz284u

What I find most amusing is this is the "brains" behind the original design of Hells bay boats... People are actually here questioning his ability as a designer and builder? The man has probably forgot more about boat building then most of you will ever know. I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Chris thanks for sharing the new design. It's a great looking skiff. Can't wait to hear more about it. Maybe it will be like the original whipray where people laugh you out of the building.... until they realize they need one of these boats...


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## Net 30

Way to go Chris! Don't let some of the pantie-wad haters here discourage you from continuing your efforts to tweak the project to make it meet or exceed your expectations.

It's got to be exciting to develop something new on a sheet of paper and have the results come close to what you envisioned.

I have one of your 2001 17.8's and it amazes me what she can do based on a design that's over 17-years old. Most of the builders today owe you a huge debt of gratitude for your forward thinking and innovative designs. 

Hopefully the Lithium is the next progression....Innovate or Die brother!


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## copperhead

This is pretty much out of character for me, but please let me digress.

I have a bunch of respect for Chris. Geno that is behind the Lithium build has been a great friend for a long time. Much of this discussion is simply misplaced. I was down in Islaville back in Jan. and was able to put my hand on the plug. I don't think most folks have ever really reviewed the Lithium design blogs Chris has posted but this hull has a really large displacement volume in the stern sections and has a ton of support thus its ability to have a really shallow draft on this specific hull as he posted. Note that this is not a production hull, no real hatches and storage in the back deck, etc. 

I'm going to put my reputation on the line. If Chris tells me a specific hull drafts 5.5", that's good enough for me. I would do this for absolutely none one else.

As far as speed, I think his conversion of knots to mph is a bit off. Should be just over 40 mph, not 41. On our skiffs with 60hp's we are running up to 21 in pitch. Our first Heron 18 will have a 90 and we're hoping for a bit better that 41 so I think his experience is in line with what I'm seeing.

And finally, if you want folks to post progressive stuff, don't be so negative. But I understand the other side too, there is so many overstated claims that yes, its easy to be jaded by the markting BS. Its not lying, its just marketing 

Geno and Chris's Lithium is the real deal, I'm impressed. Maybe even as good as the Heron 18  Sorry, couldn't resist!

As always, thanks to the microskiff.com followers.

Mel


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## iMacattack

What Mel said!

Chris the highest praise I give is to say "looks tippy" 

Cheers,
Capt. Jan


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## jboriol

Good luck with the skiff Chris, love seeing things evolve! Look forward to seeing it soon.


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## Chris Morejohn

Hey I have wifi on my boat via my new phone! Thanks guys and Mel. I don't ever mind verbal discourse. I love talking skiffs and ideas. I got my conversion numbers this morning from Skenes Yacht design book. On Google it's like Mel says at just over 40 mph. To me plenty fast and not at all what I'am really after in this skiff design. But it's the first thing everyone asks. We are running around in 12-18 knt winds and it's not flat calm.
Once we get some time we will post videos of this skiff so the guys that are out west will get a look see. For me the fun thing is getting guys that own my past designs go out in her and they tell me what they think.
Later...


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## mtoddsolomon

I am excited to see what the actual draft numbers actually come out to be. I think it's a good looking hull design and should do quite well for the guys building it. It's got great lines and reminds me of a drake nomad.

It also reminds me of when East Cape posted pictures of the EVOx on Facebook with a 6.25" draft with 2 guys and a 60hp zuke. it started this thread: https://www.microskiff.com/threads/shallow-evo.41535/ 
Nobody was shy about saying they didn't believe it and saying there was no motor and no people on the boat. 

I'm not saying the lithium won't float as shallow as Chris is claiming. But in the spirit of micro skiff this boat has a 90 on it and everyone is jumping head first into the belief that it's a 5.5" boat loaded with 4 guys. I'm just saying, with 1 guy it looks like it's a little deeper than that.
















Given that this is an EVOx with a measured 6.25" on a Suzuki 60. Check out where the motor mounts are and the trim tab actuators. Now look at the lithium, you can see that the way the engine and trim tab actuators are sitting in the water, it looks closer to 7-8" which, is still good given a 90 hp zuke.









Ok, tear me a new one...


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## Bateau

mtoddsolomon said:


> I am excited to see what the actual draft numbers actually come out to be. I think it's a good looking hull design and should do quite well for the guys building it. It's got great lines and reminds me of a drake nomad.
> 
> It also reminds me of when East Cape posted pictures of the EVOx on Facebook with a 6.25" draft with 2 guys and a 60hp zuke. it started this thread: https://www.microskiff.com/threads/shallow-evo.41535/
> Nobody was shy about saying they didn't believe it and saying there was no motor and no people on the boat.
> 
> I'm not saying the lithium won't float as shallow as Chris is claiming. But in the spirit of micro skiff this boat has a 90 on it and everyone is jumping head first into the belief that it's a 5.5" boat loaded with 4 guys. I'm just saying, with 1 guy it looks like it's a little deeper than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 11802
> Given that this is an EVOx with a measured 6.25" on a Suzuki 60. Check out where the motor mounts are and the trim tab actuators. Now look at the lithium, you can see that the way the engine and trim tab actuators are sitting in the water, it looks closer to 7-8" which, is still good given a 90 hp zuke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, tear me a new one...


EVOX has more freebiard I believe. I look forward to hearing more from Chris about the new design.


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## Bateau

Bateau said:


> EVOX has more freebiard I believe. I look forward to hearing more from Chris about the new design.


Freeboard that is


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## Blue Zone

Chris Morejohn said:


> Ok everyone....the builder of this skiff Geneo Baker and myself just tried 3 different props with just the 2 of us aboard. The skiff has 19 gals of gas aboard, CG Gear, push pole, and some other gear onboard. She feels light, but this is the plug hull and is built with 1-1/8" high density core cell core as all the bulkheads, flooring and has fairing putty on it. The scantlings are that of a 25' skiff,she is well built.
> With a 21" power tech prop we got 5500 RPMs and 35.6 knts
> With a 22" prop we got 4800-4900 RPMs and 34.7 knts
> With a 4 blade 12.7x 21 we got 5100 RPMs and 34.9 knots
> Look up the hull build on my blog..... hogfishdesign.wordpress.com
> I have a new chine design and it works very well as we can turn at a good speed say 25 mph without sliding. I will get the nerve up to try it at faster speeds.
> The pictures are of the skiff today with Brian Espositos Maverick HPX next to her.
> As I am a sailor I use knts on my GPS instead of mph. We used my old Garmin.
> I am not in the skiff selling business but in the design end of things. I also like to pass on info to help maybe inspire others. I have nothing to gain by boasting.
> In the end being here in Islamorada plenty of guides like 2 of the guys using the skiff yesterday will say what they see. They both own a 17.8 and a HPX.
> The guys that built the Lithium along with me have day jobs so all the info will be as we get the time.
> I will put waterline numbers on the hull when we get out to where there is sand to get the "real" drafts to see.
> It's fun to try new things. Unlike some skiffs out there I have all my designs on paper so if you look on my blog you can see the shapes and how they have evolved in my head.
> I will be building hull# 2 out of the mold and will set it up with a tiller 50 hp and stern box seats to a new design layout. With this we will see what will happen.
> When I built the 17.8 back in 1999-2000 those hulls weighed less than 500 lbs and with a Mercury bigfoot would get up to 37-38 mph. They weighed all up less than 1000 lbs.
> Today the modern versions weigh way more. I feel a skiff can be too light so it's all got to be thought out in advance.
> Will let you know what's up soon as I can. But best thing is to take her out.


Chris,

I blew up one of the photos in one of your earlier posts and noticed a lip in the aft portion of the chine. I asked you about this at the time, but you didn't respond.

Is this the chine innovation you are referring to? If so, that's that's an absolutely huge innovation. I can see it can provide better lift, better stability at rest and better turning ability as you attest.

I for one really don't care if the boat floats in 5.5" or 8". If you are in 5.5" of water you should just get out and wade. In that water you don't need to site fish from a platform.

On the speed question, it appears some people on here are unaware that there anomalies to hydrodynamic formulas. Up to a certain point, the chop you mention can blow those formulas apart. Also, your chine may have a positive effect as well.

Enough of the nice. Why oh why did you have to put those awful spray rails on? C'mon man, I expect better of you; there is a point where form has to win out over function.


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## Tommy1

I have no idea what the Lithium drafts, and the available photos do not help to estimate it. I do trust Chris knows how to use a tape though. The trim tab actuators come in different sizes, so that is not worth citing in an estimate from a photo. On a 20" transom boat, the bottom motor bolt holes are 10" from the keel, so you can estimate the draft. I don't know that there is 3.75" from the bolts to the water on the evo pictured, but it looks close. I do know it has some healthy strakes under the boat, and draft is supposed to be calculated to the lowest point of the hull.
I am eager to see what Chris and his new design can do. It looks great.


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## Net 30

Bateau said:


> EVOX has more freebiard I believe. I look forward to hearing more from Chris about the new design.


_"Cause I'm as free as a freebiard now,
And this bird you'll never change"..........._


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## Str8-Six

copperhead said:


> This is pretty much out of character for me, but please let me digress.
> 
> I have a bunch of respect for Chris. Geno that is behind the Lithium build has been a great friend for a long time. Much of this discussion is simply misplaced. I was down in Islaville back in Jan. and was able to put my hand on the plug. I don't think most folks have ever really reviewed the Lithium design blogs Chris has posted but this hull has a really large displacement volume in the stern sections and has a ton of support thus its ability to have a really shallow draft on this specific hull as he posted. Note that this is not a production hull, no real hatches and storage in the back deck, etc.
> 
> I'm going to put my reputation on the line. If Chris tells me a specific hull drafts 5.5", that's good enough for me. I would do this for absolutely none one else.
> 
> As far as speed, I think his conversion of knots to mph is a bit off. Should be just over 40 mph, not 41. On our skiffs with 60hp's we are running up to 21 in pitch. Our first Heron 18 will have a 90 and we're hoping for a bit better that 41 so I think his experience is in line with what I'm seeing.
> 
> And finally, if you want folks to post progressive stuff, don't be so negative. But I understand the other side too, there is so many overstated claims that yes, its easy to be jaded by the markting BS. Its not lying, its just marketing
> 
> Geno and Chris's Lithium is the real deal, I'm impressed. Maybe even as good as the Heron 18  Sorry, couldn't resist!
> 
> As always, thanks to the microskiff.com followers.
> 
> Mel


Mel,
First off, I love my Ankona Copperhead and glad I got it. I would do it all over if I had the chance. Also excited to see Heron 18 come to fruition(been bugging Erin about it). Not knocking but just giving my feedback, but my draft is not the marketed 6". Closer to 9.5" with two anglers and trolling motor. Resting draft is 8.5". I think a lot of people like me have had similar experiences with Draft numbers because they are so subjective and dependent on load. Mel and Chris have created some amazing skiffs and not taking anything away from that. This skiff looks awesome! But based off my personal experience with my draft I find a hard time believing these draft numbers. I think it would help if draft numbers were more clearly marketed like 6"+ or 5"-10" like some of the other manufactures do. Just my 2 cents. Extremely happy with my boat just wish it floated a little shallower .


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## East Cape

Tommy1 said:


> I have no idea what the Lithium drafts, and the available photos do not help to estimate it. I do trust Chris knows how to use a tape though. The trim tab actuators come in different sizes, so that is not worth citing in an estimate from a photo. On a 20" transom boat, the bottom motor bolt holes are 10" from the keel, so you can estimate the draft. I don't know that there is 3.75" from the bolts to the water on the evo pictured, but it looks close. I do know it has some healthy strakes under the boat, and draft is supposed to be calculated to the lowest point of the hull.
> I am eager to see what Chris and his new design can do. It looks great.





Hi Tommy!
It's not a 20" transom boat, and static draft was given from strakes up. We could also mold damn the strakes less in width or height for customers liking too...
That pic was static @ 6.25" draft.
~ Kev


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## Tommy1

Cool.
Play some Skynyrd!


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## Shadowcast

If the performance of the Lithium is half as good as the appearance....then I think people are in for a treat....when they put their feet in the skiff and experience it for themselves! The saying "try before you buy" needs to be changed to "try before you cry."


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## Chris Morejohn

Good morning, to answer some questions and give clarity. The draft depth given was from the two guides that took the skiff out with one guiding out of a 17.8 and the other a HPX. I will for sure draw on the hull draft numbers and do a proper measurement for my self and all.
The target draft is 7" with a load. I have been down this road before and I will be very open about it.
The chine edge detail is more complicated than just the lip. It's also the inner chine. I have drawings posted detailing its details on my blogs. I feel it works so well it could be very easy to install on all my past skiffs after market.
As for the spray rails.... To me they are a major part of the present. Want to look good or stay dry?
This design has a pad down the middle.it was drawn to pole real well and be a dry ride first.
I will be building starting next week a tiller version of this design for resale. I am targeting the total all up hull weight and engine with gear to be around 1000 lbs. 
So more things to look at soon.
There are so many great skiffs out here now. The EVO for example and Mel's line of skiffs.
To me we should all just look at what's being learned.
I will be publishing my latest design this week which is a very different skiff design I was commissioned by PIRANHA BOATS to do. This skiff is all about big motors, vee, quiet poling, rough water running and carrying all modern needs like trolling motors, power poles, backrests and so on. 
More fodder to talk and go over.


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## RCR

Chris, Congratulations on getting this skiff wet! I have been following this closely on your blog and have studied the portions of the plans you put up there. Love the new chine detail and the rounded stern and am excited to hear they both perform as expected. Do you think this boat is confined to a 50 hp minimum or do you think it will be able to perform well with a smaller tiller?


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## EdK13

sickz284u said:


> What I find most amusing is this is the "brains" behind the original design of Hells bay boats... People are actually here questioning his ability as a designer and builder? The man has probably forgot more about boat building then most of you will ever know. I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Chris thanks for sharing the new design. It's a great looking skiff. Can't wait to hear more about it. Maybe it will be like the original whipray where people laugh you out of the building.... until they realize they need one of these boats...


Morejohn doesn't forget...


----------



## jmrodandgun

Blue Zone said:


> On the speed question, it appears some people on here are unaware that there anomalies to hydrodynamic formulas.


What? Explain how a 22 inch prop can travel more than 22 inches in a single revolution. 

Zuke 90 has a 2.59:1 gear ratio. 4900 RPM is 1892 RPM at the prop. The numbers don't jive. In order to achieve 40 mph at 4900 RPM on a zuke 90 the prop would have to move through the water like a machine screw. 

What I find strange is when I run the numbers and account for slip with a base like of 10% at 4900, I get 34.7 MPH. The claim is the boat is running 4900 RPM and traveling 34.7 KNOTS which is closer to 40 MPH.

My calculator doesn't lie. I'm not skeptical because I'm experiencing some sort of skiff envy. I'm skeptical because I paid attention in class when I was in college.


----------



## zthomas

The possibility does exist that the stated pitch of the prop isn't exactly right. I know I've run setups that appeared on paper to have _negative_ slip, which I attributed to a not-very-accurate pitch figure. I believe Powertech in particular is known for quite a bit of variation between props labled with the same pitch. That's probably a more likely explanation than that the guy is just lying repeatedly for some unfathomable reason.


----------



## jmrodandgun

zthomas said:


> The possibility does exist that the stated pitch of the prop isn't exactly right


Maybe. I've seen them overstated but never understated. I suppose anything is possible, unlike a zero slip prop.


----------



## EdK13

jmrodandgun said:


> What? Explain how a 22 inch prop can travel more than 22 inches in a single revolution.
> 
> Zuke 90 has a 2.59:1 gear ratio. 4900 RPM is 1892 RPM at the prop. The numbers don't jive. In order to achieve 40 mph at 4900 RPM on a zuke 90 the prop would have to move through the water like a machine screw.
> 
> What I find strange is when I run the numbers and account for slip with a base like of 10% at 4900, I get 34.7 MPH. The claim is the boat is running 4900 RPM and traveling 34.7 KNOTS which is closer to 40 MPH.
> 
> My calculator doesn't lie. I'm not skeptical because I'm experiencing some sort of skiff envy. I'm skeptical because I paid attention in class when I was in college.


Be Happy! Its Hump Day!


----------



## Chris Morejohn

RCR said:


> Chris, Congratulations on getting this skiff wet! I have been following this closely on your blog and have studied the portions of the plans you put up there. Love the new chine detail and the rounded stern and am excited to hear they both perform as expected. Do you think this boat is confined to a 50 hp minimum or do you think it will be able to perform well with a smaller tiller?


It would be a very nice skiff with a 25-30 hp as it will plane along at 20-25 mph


----------



## Smackdaddy53

jmrodandgun said:


> What? Explain how a 22 inch prop can travel more than 22 inches in a single revolution.
> 
> Zuke 90 has a 2.59:1 gear ratio. 4900 RPM is 1892 RPM at the prop. The numbers don't jive. In order to achieve 40 mph at 4900 RPM on a zuke 90 the prop would have to move through the water like a machine screw.
> 
> What I find strange is when I run the numbers and account for slip with a base like of 10% at 4900, I get 34.7 MPH. The claim is the boat is running 4900 RPM and traveling 34.7 KNOTS which is closer to 40 MPH.
> 
> My calculator doesn't lie. I'm not skeptical because I'm experiencing some sort of skiff envy. I'm skeptical because I paid attention in class when I was in college.


Why are so dead set on blatantly being a dick about this boat? Are you going to buy one? If not just move along and let Chris discuss the boat he designed with people that are actually interested in his design, not trying to disprove him repeatedly as you are doing. It is pretty disrespectful and I am sure I'm not the only person getting that feeling. 
Great looking boat for sure, I am eager to see what she can do.


----------



## shallowfish1

jmrodandgun said:


> I'm not skeptical because I'm experiencing some sort of skiff envy. I'm skeptical because I paid attention in class when I was in college.


Unless you count that etiquette class.


----------



## jmrodandgun

This guy is selling wolf tickets and you guys are buying them up.


----------



## zthomas

To be fair, I don't think he's trying to sell anything at all. Sure, some of the numbers seem a little optimistic, but I for one enjoy seeing the build and testing process and don't really understand what's gained by publicly questioning a man's integrity over a couple of mph one way or another. Maybe there was a three knot current and they took the reading only one direction. Or maybe he's just excited and not keeping meticulous notes on every run. Who knows. But dude...


----------



## shallowfish1

jmrod, I actually admire folks like you who don't pull punches. It's a rare trait in an increasingly limp-wristed world. But you can accomplish the same thing by simply questioning the stats without using terms like "honesty" that impugn the guy's integrity. You certainly seem to know a lot more about the technical aspects of skiff performance than most of us do. Certainly more than me. I know that when my prop turns my skiff moves. Unless I've tagged a mud bar, which I'm fond of doing.

I think the Lithium is a pretty little skiff and the OP was honest about the fact that it's a one-off and not a production boat. The truth will come out eventually. My guess is that in the end you'll both be proven correct -- the beta skiff will post better numbers than the production models.


----------



## HPXFLY

love to know what skiff jmrodandgun is running.. seems he knows best so i might as well sell mine and get what he has


----------



## jmrodandgun

It just seems like everyone who reviews their own boat goes off the rails with excitement, it's getting old.

Zuke 90 has a gear ratio of 2.59, and the claimed prop is a 22 pitch. If water were a soft solid like a piece of wood, a 22 pitch prop would travel 22 inches in a single rotation, or 1.83333 feet. keep in mind a zero slip prop generates zero thrust. You MUST accelerate water aft in order to generate enough thrust to overcome the resistance of the boat in the water. This is why props get more efficient as ground speed increases. Less boat in the water = less resistance to overcome.

4900RPM/2.59=1891.9 revolutions per minute. At that speed, in a soft solid, the screw would travel about 3468 feet per minute. Or just shy of 40 MPH (3468*60)/5280. Again, a zero slip prop generates no thrust.

Call me a jerk, an asshole, or whatever you want but there is some f**kery afoot with those speed numbers. Either the prop pitch is not accurate or whomever ran the numbers ran them in MPH, rather than knots. The claim of 34.7 knots matches up perfectly with good prop efficiency measured in MPH. A 22p prop turning 1892 RPM with a slip of 10% comes out to 34.7 MPH, NOT the claimed 34.7 knots (40MPH)

If someone is extra bored today they can run the draft data. 1900 pounds gross weight is just a hair over 30 cubic feet of displacement. I suspect you will find some discrepancies on a 5.5 inch draft figure.


----------



## mtoddsolomon

He hasn't mentioned what he has, but that doesn't matter. All he is trying to say is that the numbers don't work out on the run data, and the numbers and pictures don't match the draft data. I think that if it were any other member that Chris to come on here and post that most people would question it. That being said, I do respect Chris for what he's done in the past and what he continues to do, but simple physics doesn't work out. 

I'm glad we finally have a topic on here again to get people all excited again. I thought I was going to have to get a skiff manufacturer rank going.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

mtoddsolomon said:


> He hasn't mentioned what he has, but that doesn't matter. All he is trying to say is that the numbers don't work out on the run data, and the numbers and pictures don't match the draft data. I think that if it were any other member that Chris to come on here and post that most people would question it. That being said, I do respect Chris for what he's done in the past and what he continues to do, but simple physics doesn't work out.
> 
> I'm glad we finally have a topic on here again to get people all excited again. I thought I was going to have to get a skiff manufacturer rank going.


Great information here for sure. If we can this evening we will try and get a GPS that we can photograph next to the tach that reads in mph and then I will be educated. Thanks for these numbers, it's all a learning process. 
This weekend we will get videos of the skiff running with a friend that has an HPX with the same engine. We used his prop in the tests.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail

jmrodandgun said:


> It just seems like everyone who reviews their own boat goes off the rails with excitement, it's getting old.
> 
> Zuke 90 has a gear ratio of 2.59, and the claimed prop is a 22 pitch. If water were a soft solid like a piece of wood, a 22 pitch prop would travel 22 inches in a single rotation, or 1.83333 feet. keep in mind a zero slip prop generates zero thrust. You MUST accelerate water aft in order to generate enough thrust to overcome the resistance of the boat in the water. This is why props get more efficient as ground speed increases. Less boat in the water = less resistance to overcome.
> 
> 4900RPM/2.59=1891.9 revolutions per minute. At that speed, in a soft solid, the screw would travel about 3468 feet per minute. Or just shy of 40 MPH (3468*60)/5280. Again, a zero slip prop generates no thrust.
> 
> Call me a jerk, an asshole, or whatever you want but there is some f**kery afoot with those speed numbers. Either the prop pitch is not accurate or whomever ran the numbers ran them in MPH, rather than knots. The claim of 34.7 knots matches up perfectly with good prop efficiency measured in MPH. A 22p prop turning 1892 RPM with a slip of 10% comes out to 34.7 MPH, NOT the claimed 34.7 knots (40MPH)
> 
> If someone is extra bored today they can run the draft data. 1900 pounds gross weight is just a hair over 30 cubic feet of displacement. I suspect you will find some discrepancies on a 5.5 inch draft figure.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

jmrodandgun said:


> It just seems like everyone who reviews their own boat goes off the rails with excitement, it's getting old.
> 
> Zuke 90 has a gear ratio of 2.59, and the claimed prop is a 22 pitch. If water were a soft solid like a piece of wood, a 22 pitch prop would travel 22 inches in a single rotation, or 1.83333 feet. keep in mind a zero slip prop generates zero thrust. You MUST accelerate water aft in order to generate enough thrust to overcome the resistance of the boat in the water. This is why props get more efficient as ground speed increases. Less boat in the water = less resistance to overcome.
> 
> 4900RPM/2.59=1891.9 revolutions per minute. At that speed, in a soft solid, the screw would travel about 3468 feet per minute. Or just shy of 40 MPH (3468*60)/5280. Again, a zero slip prop generates no thrust.
> 
> Call me a jerk, an asshole, or whatever you want but there is some f**kery afoot with those speed numbers. Either the prop pitch is not accurate or whomever ran the numbers ran them in MPH, rather than knots. The claim of 34.7 knots matches up perfectly with good prop efficiency measured in MPH. A 22p prop turning 1892 RPM with a slip of 10% comes out to 34.7 MPH, NOT the claimed 34.7 knots (40MPH)
> 
> If someone is extra bored today they can run the draft data. 1900 pounds gross weight is just a hair over 30 cubic feet of displacement. I suspect you will find some discrepancies on a 5.5 inch draft figure.


The only thing getting old is your asshattery. You seem like an educated person but some tact would benefit you. I don't know you from Adam, how many boats have you designed and built? It sounds like you should open a boat business and show Mr. Morejohn how it's done.


----------



## jmrodandgun

Maybe my calculator is broken, have you tried yours? Or do you not understand Algebra I? You have offered no rebuttal. None. At least I stated my case and backed it up with something. You have done neither. Maybe I'm wrong, but at the very least I'm open and honest about how I came to my conclusion. You're simply going along with it blindly.


----------



## iMacattack

ENOUGH!


----------



## JRH

iMacattack said:


> ENOUGH!


The downfall of this fishy chat room, in my humble opinion, is when the powers at be decided it would be a good idea to take a perfectly fine fishing chatroom with 3-4 subsections for discussion (I believe it was general, classified, off-topic and fishing reports when I was one of the first members to join) and turned it into a chopped up, shitshow mess. It now stands at 36 subsections. THIRTY SIX!! How can a forum about micro-skiffs, which by their definition are "keep it simple" have 36 subsections? Who has time to click on 36 individual subsections to see what's been posted?

Anyways, my question is why is this thread allowed in General Discussion when it clearly falls solely within the definition of "The Commercial Zone"? If it's not moved to "The Commerical Zone" then what is the point of "The Commercial Zone"? Do we need 36 subsections?

Ok I'm done.


----------



## GullsGoneWild




----------



## Vertigo

jmrodandgun said:


> What? Explain how a 22 inch prop can travel more than 22 inches in a single revolution.
> 
> Zuke 90 has a 2.59:1 gear ratio. 4900 RPM is 1892 RPM at the prop. The numbers don't jive. In order to achieve 40 mph at 4900 RPM on a zuke 90 the prop would have to move through the water like a machine screw.
> 
> What I find strange is when I run the numbers and account for slip with a base like of 10% at 4900, I get 34.7 MPH. The claim is the boat is running 4900 RPM and traveling 34.7 KNOTS which is closer to 40 MPH.
> 
> My calculator doesn't lie. I'm not skeptical because I'm experiencing some sort of skiff envy. I'm skeptical because I paid attention in class when I was in college.


There is frequently a difference between real world results and those derived by means of theory and calculator. A college degree is not required to be aware of this fact. A more reasonable way to test Mr. Morejohn's claims would be to look at real world performance data of the 90DF which are readily available online from Suzuki performance bulletins. Speeds in excess of 40 mph appear to be quite attainable, and with much heavier boats.

There are many ways claims and calculations can go wrong. True prop pitch is typically not what's stamped on the prop. Without knowing true pitch, slip is also unknowable. GPS speeds are affected by current and wind. A good tail wind and a little current could easily add 5 kts to top end speed. How accurate was the tachometer? How accurately was data recorded? All these factors and more come into play.

Claimed performance may be exceptional, but it's well within the realm of possibility. At this point I think it's fair to give Mr. Morejohn the the benefit of the doubt and save our skepticism until way more info becomes available.


----------



## devrep

ok ladies. So from where I stand:
Chris M, well known designer and sailor made a few statements with 2nd hand info and may or may not be mistaken.

JMrodandgun made a couple of good points in a less than delicate manner and then proceeded to beat them to death when questioned by the true believers.

Chris M will now do some first hand checking of his claims and get back to us. 

All good if none of the crap in between had been posted.

btw Chris, I have an 01 Waterman tiller, no deck. love the boat.

carry on.


----------



## Skiff Junky

JRH said:


> The downfall of this fishy chat room, in my humble opinion, is when the powers at be decided it would be a good idea to take a perfectly fine fishing chatroom with 3-4 subsections for discussion (I believe it was general, classified, off-topic and fishing reports when I was one of the first members to join) and turned it into a chopped up, shitshow mess. It now stands at 36 subsections. THIRTY SIX!! How can a forum about micro-skiffs, which by their definition are "keep it simple" have 36 subsections? Who has time to click on 36 individual subsections to see what's been posted?
> 
> Anyways, my question is why is this thread allowed in General Discussion when it clearly falls solely within the definition of "The Commercial Zone"? If it's not moved to "The Commerical Zone" then what is the point of "The Commercial Zone"? Do we need 36 subsections?
> 
> Ok I'm done.





Vertigo said:


> There is frequently a difference between real world results and those derived by means of theory and calculator. A college degree is not required to be aware of this fact. A more reasonable way to test Mr. Morejohn's claims would be to look at real world performance of the 90DF which are readily available online from Suzuki performance bulletins. Speeds in excess of 40 mph appear to be quite attainable, and with much heavier boats.
> 
> There are many ways claims and calculations can go wrong. True prop pitch is typically not what's stamped on the prop. Without knowing true pitch, slip is also unknowable. GPS speeds are affected by current and wind. A good tail wind and a little current could easily add 5 kts to top end speed. How accurate was the tachometer? How accurately was data recorded? All these factors and more come into play.
> 
> Claimed performance may be exceptional, but it's well within the realm of possibility. At this point I think it's fair to give Mr. Morejohn the the benefit of the doubt and save our skepticism until way more info becomes available.


Now you guys want to get all logical and kill, as JRH puts it, the chit show this place has become?

I'm on record as not part of the Moorjohn's fan club but I have seen some interesting innovations that has been subtly displayed on several "home built skiffs" for which he consulted. When the amature builder tells me "it works" I pay attention. I do like to read his posts to see what he will come up with next. It's refreshing to see an original thinker post his ideas.

And having been a PT dealer I can tell you that the numbers stamped on the prop are a reference point. Good people, but not consistent IMHO.


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## EdK13

This thread is delicious! 2coolish...


----------



## JRH

Hi Ron. Long time no see. Hope all is well.

Whipray is still in great shape though it's admittedly not hard to keep it in great shape when it sits in the garage most of the time...


----------



## EdK13

Interestingly- Lithium is a medication commonly used to treat and prevent mania episodes in people with bipolar disorder. Mania is abnormal excitement, which may lead to undesirable behaviors. Huh..

Its also represented by LI on the periodic table. Huh^2.


----------



## RCR

If ya'll get some time check out all the posts Chris has on this boat on his blogs hogfishdesign.wordpress.com and chrismorejohn.BlogSpot.com about this skiff. From what I read and studied, he isn't trying to sell a boat. He's been doing this since the beginning and wanted a design that incorporated all of his IDEAS and learnings from the past into one awesome skiff. Very interesting reads and one hell of a skiff. I don't think he is looking for the fastest skinniest boat ever made or put a price tag so high no one can reach it. He has break down of design, prices and materials, what it costs to build, and why we see the final prices we do. Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt you are the least bit concerned about a few MPHs, especially when you say it'd be a sweet skiff with a 25 or 30hp. Just check them out, nothing to start a fuss about. We all learn something new everyday and try to apply it to our futures.


----------



## HPXFLY

jmrodandgun said:


> It just seems like everyone who reviews their own boat goes off the rails with excitement, it's getting old.
> 
> Zuke 90 has a gear ratio of 2.59, and the claimed prop is a 22 pitch. If water were a soft solid like a piece of wood, a 22 pitch prop would travel 22 inches in a single rotation, or 1.83333 feet. keep in mind a zero slip prop generates zero thrust. You MUST accelerate water aft in order to generate enough thrust to overcome the resistance of the boat in the water. This is why props get more efficient as ground speed increases. Less boat in the water = less resistance to overcome.
> 
> 4900RPM/2.59=1891.9 revolutions per minute. At that speed, in a soft solid, the screw would travel about 3468 feet per minute. Or just shy of 40 MPH (3468*60)/5280. Again, a zero slip prop generates no thrust.
> 
> Call me a jerk, an asshole, or whatever you want but there is some f**kery afoot with those speed numbers. Either the prop pitch is not accurate or whomever ran the numbers ran them in MPH, rather than knots. The claim of 34.7 knots matches up perfectly with good prop efficiency measured in MPH. A 22p prop turning 1892 RPM with a slip of 10% comes out to 34.7 MPH, NOT the claimed 34.7 knots (40MPH)
> 
> If someone is extra bored today they can run the draft data. 1900 pounds gross weight is just a hair over 30 cubic feet of displacement. I suspect you will find some discrepancies on a 5.5 inch draft figure.


Trust me I understand the math wasnt arguing that part, the guy posted some numbers on a pretty neat looking hull, maybe the numbers arnt exact maybe they are round about. Whatever, lets let him post a pic of the screen with it running showing RPMs and MPH; shouldn't be to hard and go from there. In all honesty I find the speed and draft unrealistic, but no need to call the guy out on it. I personally think his approach to building and design is refreshing in a skiff market dominated by cut up videos that look like a skateboard edit to push boats out the door. 

Trust me Im not jumping in on this is the best skiff out and Im sure you arnt either. If I based my purchases on all the marketing BS or internet talk I would be pulling a Chittum or East Cape behind my truck... different strokes for different folks


----------



## csnaspuck

HPXFLY said:


> Trust me Im not jumping in on this is the best skiff out and Im sure you arnt either. If I based my purchases on all the marketing BS or internet talk I would be pulling a Chittum or East Cape behind my truck... different strokes for different folks


From a guy with a HB!


----------



## EdK13

csnaspuck said:


> From a guy with a HB!


 But.. is it a "reel" one?


----------



## HPXFLY

haha but my user name is HPX... hard to convey jokes over the keyboard. Ive had a few skiffs, from a few builders and all have been great. Fishing styles and location have changed over the years and some fit better than others. Actually tried to buy a new East Cape at one point but dont want to derail this thread.. back to the lithium discussion and hopefully it includes more pictures and videos.


----------



## HPXFLY

EdK13 said:


> But.. is it a "reel" one?


If you must know its an 04 16 Whipray with a 25hp merc 2stroke tiller, not sure if that is the "reel" you were looking for but it suits my needs.


----------



## Skiff Junky

HPXFLY said:


> haha but my user name is HPX... hard to convey jokes over the keyboard. Ive had a few skiffs, from a few builders and all have been great. Fishing styles and location have changed over the years and some fit better than others. Actually tried to buy a new East Cape at one point but dont want to derail this thread.. back to the lithium discussion and hopefully it includes more pictures and videos.


Start a new thread.

Rumor has it this forum is to be renamed "As The Skiff World Turns"


----------



## EdK13

HPXFLY said:


> If you must know its an 04 16 Whipray with a 25hp merc 2stroke tiller, not sure if that is the "reel" you were looking for but it suits my needs.


They used to give a free fly "reel" with the early ones. -when you were a young prepubescent full of piss and vinegar... Ha.


----------



## Megalops

EdK13 said:


> Interestingly- Lithium is a medication commonly used to treat and prevent mania episodes in people with bipolar disorder. Mania is abnormal excitement, which may lead to undesirable behaviors. Huh..
> 
> Its also represented by LI on the periodic table. Huh^2.


Hey Ed, lithium also has an off label use for cluster headaches - which unfortunately this thread has turned into. Lol.


----------



## mtoddsolomon

HPXFLY said:


> haha but my user name is HPX... hard to convey jokes over the keyboard. Ive had a few skiffs, from a few builders and all have been great. Fishing styles and location have changed over the years and some fit better than others. Actually tried to buy a new East Cape at one point but dont want to derail this thread.. back to the lithium discussion and hopefully it includes more pictures and videos.


Must have not tried too hard! JK 

I'm ready to see some more pictures and videos as well. I realize that they don't have to prove anything to me or anyone else on this forum but that's the whole point of this place to hear feedback and bullshit with people who are like minded.


----------



## texasag07

I was at Brian's shop with a buddy asking some questions about upgrading skiffs in early may. We weren't customers at that point and Brian stopped what he was doing to show us a few things and let us look at at boat. 

Towards the end of the visit he said hey I think you all would be interested in what we have going on over here. To which he and Geno who was busy sanding away on the plug stopped and talked to us about the features of the lithium plug for near 30 minutes. 

Both of them seemed really passionate about the boat and from what we saw I think I will be a winner of a hull. I had followed the build on Chris's blog prior to that and I also can see the design attributes he speaks of here.

Regardless of numbers posted on the interweb which I could care less about, I think this boat will be hit in the boat world. I will reserve my review till I have been on one.

Ok back to the armchair for this thread.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Hey guys just got back in from a quick run. We went out with a friend who has the same engine on his HPX. His GPS unit is in knts to. For now here's what we found. We could pass him at 35.6 knts on my handheld 10 year old GPS and his said 35.9.
Go figure. We had speed on him in rough chop. Way dryer crossing the bay. We went to the hardest bay bottom we could find and three of us poling it looked like 6-1/2-7" went we dragged bottom.
my videos won't load... Go look on my Instagram site later.
Will get back....


----------



## EdK13

Chris Morejohn said:


> Hey guys just got back in from a quick run. We went out with a friend who has the same engine on his HPX. His GPS unit is in knts to. For now here's what we found. We could pass him at 35.6 knts on my handheld 10 year old GPS and his said 35.9.


Looks nice!


----------



## shallowfish1

She's purty.



JRH said:


> How can a forum about micro-skiffs, which by their definition are "keep it simple" have 36 subsections? Who has time to click on 36 individual subsections to see what's been posted?


Yeah, lotsa sub-sections. Which reminds me: I've solicited advice on fishing Keys bridges and the post is languishing in (of all things) the General Fishing sub-section. I just ran some calculations and by my count it has 552 views and zero replies. Input from the snapper-savvy would be appreciated.


----------



## zthomas

shallowfish1 said:


> I just ran some calculations and by my count it has 552 views and zero replies.


Give us a break; that's not even mathematically possible. Are you sure you were reading the view count right?


----------



## Battfisher

zthomas said:


> Give us a break; that's not even mathematically possible. Are you sure you were reading the view count right?


Best reply I've seen on this thread.


----------



## 321nole

beautiful boat...sure wouldn't mind getting my hands on a side console like that to replace my existing one!


----------



## anytide

JRH said:


> The downfall of this fishy chat room, in my humble opinion, is when the powers at be decided it would be a good idea to take a perfectly fine fishing chatroom with 3-4 subsections for discussion (I believe it was general, classified, off-topic and fishing reports when I was one of the first members to join) and turned it into a chopped up, shitshow mess. It now stands at 36 subsections. THIRTY SIX!! How can a forum about micro-skiffs, which by their definition are "keep it simple" have 36 subsections? Who has time to click on 36 individual subsections to see what's been posted?
> 
> Anyways, my question is why is this thread allowed in General Discussion when it clearly falls solely within the definition of "The Commercial Zone"? If it's not moved to "The Commerical Zone" then what is the point of "The Commercial Zone"? Do we need 36 subsections?
> 
> Ok I'm done.


i know right..........
not even a frickin' microskiff ! ........... dam!


----------



## permitchaser

You know I just looked at the picture above and that's a wide boat. Wonder what the beam is. It may float in 7-8"
Chris said they weren't for sale and that he may make a tiller to sell. So what's all the controversy about


----------



## iMacattack

Chris, How much for the test boat? 

Cheers,
Jan


----------



## shallowfish1

zthomas said:


> Give us a break; that's not even mathematically possible. Are you sure you were reading the view count right?


Well, despite what the math says there is some deviation in the numbers. If you take the average number of views in any given thread, multiply it by 46.457 and then shove that number up a consenting duck's ass...oh, never mind.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

We just tried a 20 x14 prop and got up to 36.5 knts. It's windy so she's mostly just skimming along. It was the two of us safety gear, push pole, stake out pole and small stuff. 10 glas of fuel.
The beam at the stern waterline is 52". The beam of the hull is 55" and then it's 6' including the outside of the upper spray rail. The deck overhang is 6" more. She is a long narrow skiff at hull length of 17'11". 
This skiff will be in production in a few months. They will offer several layouts. Their company is Matecumbe Skiff Werks. 
I have been given the use of the mold so will start building the first one out of the mold next week as a tiller skiff with stern seats and such with what I feel is a nice setup. It's for sale. It's my last skiff I will build as I will be off sailing once it's done this summer.
To me this design will be very nice with smaller HP. What I feel is the best thing to come out of this design is the stern and the lower chine details.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

iMacattack said:


> Chris, How much for the test boat?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jan


Jan, I will get Geneo to contact you. I am only the designer and have no part of the company.
I will be building a tiller model deck and mold for them and I will build the first one of these with my details in it for resale to fund my escape from reality this fall.


----------



## Tx_Whipray




----------



## iMacattack

Chris Morejohn said:


> fund my escape from reality this fall.


Run, Forest Run!


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## sjrobin

Chris Morejohn said:


> Jan, I will get Geneo to contact you. I am only the designer and have no part of the company.
> I will be building a tiller model deck and mold for them and I will build the first one of these with my details in it for resale to fund my escape from reality this fall.


Think about two or three tiller versions (no rigging except 22.8 gal FMT fuel tank) and how much further away you could sail.


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## copperhead

Chris / Geno.....watch out for Jan, he might try a frequent flyer miles scam exchange instead of real $$


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## DuckNut

shallowfish1 said:


> Well, despite what the math says there is some deviation in the numbers. If you take the average number of views in any given thread, multiply it by 46.457 and then shove that number up a consenting duck's ass...oh, never mind.


Fantasizing about beastiality... Go pop a couple lithium pills you sick bastard!


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## permitchaser

100 replies. Wups this make 101


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## Tip'n'Tail

@Chris Morejohn is anybody currently building the Lithium from your plans? And will the plans still be offered once the hull is in production?


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## iMacattack

copperhead said:


> Chris / Geno.....watch out for Jan, he might try a frequent flyer miles scam exchange instead of real $$


My evil plan once again has been foiled! Curses! LOL

Chris, I'll be in the Keys in August. If you're still around I'd love to stop by Lorelei and check out the skiff. I'll be burning a lot of my Hilton Points in Key Logo but it's not a hard run down to Isla.


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## noeettica

Haters gonna Hate ... Nay Sayers gonna Nay Say ...

I quit with posting numbers just post videos and photos

Ron knows what the little 13 footer will do !

No one believes it I still don't ...

Oh where is old "Super Hater" that says a mint condition Landau with a nearly new trailer and motor is only worth $250 ?


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## EdK13

Morejohn: "It's my last skiff I will build as I will be off sailing once it's done this summer."

Sad if true...


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## Tx_Whipray

Wait a second....I can use miles? 
What can I get for 450,000 AA miles and 700,000 Marriott points? I could probably sweeten the deal with about 10,000 Enterprise RAC points, if you are going to drive a hard bargain.


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## Chris Morejohn

Tip'n'Tail said:


> @Chris Morejohn is anybody currently building the Lithium from your plans? And will the plans still be offered once the hull is in production?


The design is owned by Matecumbe Skiff Werks. I have posted lots of my designs on my blog hogfishdesign.wordpress.com . Anyone that can down load these drawings should be able to come up with a design on they're own. The key details that anyone can use is the lower chine details, the stern ideas and then you just have to look at the hull sections to suit your needs.


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## Chris Morejohn

iMacattack said:


> My evil plan once again has been foiled! Curses! LOL
> 
> Chris, I'll be in the Keys in August. If you're still around I'd love to stop by Lorelei and check out the skiff. I'll be burning a lot of my Hilton Points in Key Logo but it's not a hard run down to Isla.


Yes I will be here finishing the Lithium build I will be doing. Just email me as that's best way to find [email protected]


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## Chris Morejohn

copperhead said:


> Chris / Geno.....watch out for Jan, he might try a frequent flyer miles scam exchange instead of real $$


If Jan cooks like the pictures he takes of food then he can wine and dine me....


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## iMacattack

Chris Morejohn said:


> If Jan cooks like the pictures he takes of food then he can wine and dine me....


Sounds like a plan. I'll email you closer to August.

Cheers


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## hookemdano

I hate to flog a dead horse now that this seems to have settled but I gotta admit I'm interested. I'm not looking for a 12 degree boat. I'm interested in an improved 18 waterman. I want to still be able to run and pole shallow for redfishing. Then stay drier and be quiet on the hook while hoping/waiting for poon. This boat seems to be more of a new and improved version of a waterman than a marquesa competitor. And I hope the comparisons don't insult the designer but that is about the simplest way I could say what I appreciate about it.


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## Battfisher

hookemdano said:


> I hate to flog a dead horse now that this seems to have settled but I gotta admit I'm interested. I'm not looking for a 12 degree boat. I'm interested in an improved 18 waterman. I want to still be able to run and pole shallow for redfishing. Then stay drier and be quiet on the hook while hoping/waiting for poon. This boat seems to be more of a new and improved version of a waterman than a marquesa competitor. And I hope the comparisons don't insult the designer but that is about the simplest way I could say what I appreciate about it.


If Chris hasn't been offended by what has been posted so far, your post certainly won't offend him.


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## Chris Morejohn

hookemdano said:


> I hate to flog a dead horse now that this seems to have settled but I gotta admit I'm interested. I'm not looking for a 12 degree boat. I'm interested in an improved 18 waterman. I want to still be able to run and pole shallow for redfishing. Then stay drier and be quiet on the hook while hoping/waiting for poon. This boat seems to be more of a new and improved version of a waterman than a marquesa competitor. And I hope the comparisons don't insult the designer but that is about the simplest way I could say what I appreciate about it.


The LITHIUM was designed to be an improved 17.8, Waterman, HPX ,and Chittum 18.
The best thing is for word to get out on its own as to how it compares.
As for my own opinion as it compares to my past designs it's a very nice advancement in many areas. People are starting to ride in her so word will get out.
Please to ask for prices and to talk to the builders email them [email protected]
I only involved as the designer and friend.


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## Smackdaddy53

I wonder what it would do with a real tunnel for down here...


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## EdK13

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I wonder what it would do with a real tunnel for down here...


WHAT? You mustn't bring "down here" up you ole scallywag coffee cup collector. To my disappointment Tejas is the sphincter of the gulf coast according to a few, some...or most on here. Depending on the time of year or general mood. Its Almost as bad as ... ah, never mind.
Senor' Capitan Morejohn was here once upon a time and I confidently suspect he aint coming back. Ever. For my part, I shoulda stayed on that old Island Packet (49, 37, dont really remember.) in pirate harbor with that flat headed 4'10" blondie back in 91' when I had the damned chance and plenty of Appletons to boot... Good times... happy friday.


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## EdK13

Battfisher said:


> If Chris hasn't been offended by what has been posted so far, your post certainly won't offend him.


Offended. HA! Doubt it. The PC Culture is likely one of many things he was/is happy to escape from... every single time he does.


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## coconutgroves

The richest man in the world once said we'd never need more than 640kb of memory in the computer.

They said you couldn't put a man on the moon.

They said an electric car could never perform as good or better than a gasoline powered car.

Haters gonna be haters.

@Chris Morejohn - I support ya brother and have been following your blog on this design. Pushing the limits of design should always be done. The status quo doesn't lead to innovation. I am in tech and I hear on a daily basis from engineers "that can't be done" - after digging in, building and learning, we find that it can ultimately be done. One a side note, I saw in one of your posts that you are traveling soon to sail the South Pacific. I've traveled there extensively and will shoot you an email with some cool more unknown spots.


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## Capnredfish

Electric cars still ain't beatin gas. Long way from beating a top fuel V8. Even jet car can't touch them. Electric is cool, but who has time for it to charge? Over night maybe.

Back to draft claims. Don't care what the claim is on this one. Why don't all builders just put a numbers sticker on the stern from the lowest point, step on and see where she sits. Then post the pic.


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## No Bait / Lures Only

Capnredfish said:


> Electric cars still ain't beatin gas. Long way from beating a top fuel V8. Even jet car can't touch them. Electric is cool, but who has time for it to charge? Over night maybe.
> 
> Back to draft claims. Don't care what the claim is on this one. Why don't all builders just put a numbers sticker on the stern from the lowest point, step on and see where she sits. Then post the pic.


Now ya talking.........


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## noeettica

Finny thing we REALLY don't "Need" more than 640K but due to pc's going mainstream and greedy advertisers shoving their CRAP at us , lazy programmers and lazy users we do ... but i still have a working 640 k machine and it can get under the hood of a bloated 8 gig machine and bring it down Ez Peezy !

Carry on ...


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## EasternGlow

Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to know what percentage of skiff owners actually need a sub 7" draft on their boat for the type of fishing they do. I know it's nice to have, but do you actually need it? I'm guessing it might be a relatively small percentage. I know I need it for the shallowest spots in the 'Glades and I enjoy the hell out of it.


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## iMacattack

EasternGlow said:


> I know I need it for the shallowest spots in the 'Glades and I enjoy the hell out of it.


I catch a ton of fish in "trolling motor" deep water. Basically if I have enough water to run a trolling motor I can get my boat (Scout 192 w/140 Suzuki) into it. Now with that being said I have had several occurrences where I wish I could have gotten shallower.


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## Finn Maccumhail

EasternGlow said:


> Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to know what percentage of skiff owners actually need a sub 7" draft on their boat for the type of fishing they do. I know it's nice to have, but do you actually need it? I'm guessing it might be a relatively small percentage. I know I need it for the shallowest spots in the 'Glades and I enjoy the hell out of it.


I'd venture to say that if you're fishing the Texas flats, regardless of whether or not it's the marsh on the Upper Coasts, the ultra-skinny grass flats of the Middle Coast, or the white sands of the Lower Laguna Madre if you're not poling something that can float in 8" or less loaded down with 2 men and gear you're going to be missing out on a lot of fishable water that's going to be substantially less pressured than the rest of the waters here.

If somebody can make a tunnel-hull skiff that can get up in less than a foot, run with the motor jacked up in that same water (or less), and still pole quietly in 8" (again, loaded down) then you've got an ideal Texas skiff.

The fact of the matter is that here in Texas the flats tend to be bigger and shallower than what you find in Florida so that you're not able to just pole a couple hundred yards into a channel and run.


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## Chris Morejohn

I have a few videos of the LITHIUM SKIFF running and poling in shallow water on my Instagram page which is in my name... Chris Morejohn
I just own an iPad so I can't seem to load them here on this site. Sorry about this.

My exsperiences with tunnels is that the limiting factor on a hard sand bottom is the depth of the cavitation plate on outboards is about 17" to the tip of the skeg on the engine. I have tried all kinds of props and manouvers years ago but in a hard bottom 17" is as shallow as I could get a light Waterman 16' tunnel skiff with a 25 ho Merc on a jack plate that we had power trim on. I tried everything to get up in less without worrying about breaking something and that's the number I saw then.
Now in mud and soft grass it's another story.
I designed and built in 1986 a 20' scooter skiff with a 12" long and 5" deep wedge tunnel that had a 200 Merc with a jet drive on a jack plate. This skiff would float in 5" of hard sand and all you needed was a 1/4" more water to get up on plane.
Landed her in enough water to float in was the danger and she was not any fun in a chop.


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## EdK13

Chris Morejohn said:


> I have a few videos of the LITHIUM SKIFF running and poling in shallow water on my Instagram page which is in my name... Chris Morejohn
> I just own an iPad so I can't seem to load them here on this site. Sorry about this.
> 
> My exsperiences with tunnels is that the limiting factor on a hard sand bottom is the depth of the cavitation plate on outboards is about 17" to the tip of the skeg on the engine. I have tried all kinds of props and manouvers years ago but in a hard bottom 17" is as shallow as I could get a light Waterman 16' tunnel skiff with a 25 ho Merc on a jack plate that we had power trim on. I tried everything to get up in less without worrying about breaking something and that's the number I saw then.
> Now in mud and soft grass it's another story.
> I designed and built in 1986 a 20' scooter skiff with a 12" long and 5" deep wedge tunnel that had a 200 Merc with a jet drive on a jack plate. This skiff would float in 5" of hard sand and all you needed was a 1/4" more water to get up on plane.
> Landed her in enough water to float in was the danger and she was not any fun in a chop.


You and Mac ought-a talk if you want to do another Texas Tunnel.... ever.


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## coconutgroves

EasternGlow said:


> Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to know what percentage of skiff owners actually need a sub 7" draft on their boat for the type of fishing they do. I know it's nice to have, but do you actually need it? I'm guessing it might be a relatively small percentage. I know I need it for the shallowest spots in the 'Glades and I enjoy the hell out of it.


Miles and miles of endless creeks and lakes here in TX where 5" draft is needed to access them. I've caught reds that were half way out of the water, belly sliding on the shore chasing bait with their eyes out of the water.

My B2 is a measured 6.5" draft on pole with 1 guy on the bow. I've sat at the mouth of a creek a half inch too heavy, knowing there were tons of fish stacked in the back.


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## anytide

EasternGlow said:


> Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to know what percentage of skiff owners actually need a sub 7" draft on their boat for the type of fishing they do. I know it's nice to have, but do you actually need it? I'm guessing it might be a relatively small percentage. I know I need it for the shallowest spots in the 'Glades and I enjoy the hell out of it.


less water = less people = more fish.
when you can get into sub 8" of water there are less yum-yums out there. less pressure on fish/ angler etc.
if you have a yak or two come by its better than those high tower high hp mouth breathin' prop scarrin' schmucks.........


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## Battfisher

iMacattack said:


> I catch a ton of fish in "trolling motor" deep water. Basically if I have enough water to run a trolling motor I can get my boat (Scout 192 w/140 Suzuki) into it. Now with that being said I have had several occurrences where I wish I could have gotten shallower.


I'd love to see some pics of the 192 - you bought it from me about 5 years ago.


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## Finn Maccumhail

Chris Morejohn said:


> I have a few videos of the LITHIUM SKIFF running and poling in shallow water on my Instagram page which is in my name... Chris Morejohn
> I just own an iPad so I can't seem to load them here on this site. Sorry about this.
> 
> My exsperiences with tunnels is that the limiting factor on a hard sand bottom is the depth of the cavitation plate on outboards is about 17" to the tip of the skeg on the engine. I have tried all kinds of props and manouvers years ago but in a hard bottom 17" is as shallow as I could get a light Waterman 16' tunnel skiff with a 25 ho Merc on a jack plate that we had power trim on. I tried everything to get up in less without worrying about breaking something and that's the number I saw then.
> Now in mud and soft grass it's another story.
> I designed and built in 1986 a 20' scooter skiff with a 12" long and 5" deep wedge tunnel that had a 200 Merc with a jet drive on a jack plate. This skiff would float in 5" of hard sand and all you needed was a 1/4" more water to get up on plane.
> Landed her in enough water to float in was the danger and she was not any fun in a chop.


Knowing a couple guys who have them and having fished out of them, I think the Hell's Bay Guide best fits the needs on the Texas coast to have a tunnel hull that can run super skinny but still draft just as skinny and is easily poled.


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## EasternGlow

anytide said:


> less water = less people = more fish.
> when you can get into sub 8" of water there are less yum-yums out there. less pressure on fish/ angler etc.
> if you have a yak or two come by its better than those high tower high hp mouth breathin' prop scarrin' schmucks.........


Agreed


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## iMacattack

Battfisher said:


> I'd love to see some pics of the 192 - you bought it from me about 5 years ago.


I don't want to hijack this thread, but other than the Suzuki 140 and cutting out rod holders not much has changed.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/suzuki-df140-repower-outboard-specialities.91/
https://www.microskiff.com/threads/no-turning-back-rod-locker-modification-scout-192.73/


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## seapro17sv

iMacattack said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread, but other than the Suzuki 140 and cutting out rod holders not much has changed.
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/suzuki-df140-repower-outboard-specialities.91/
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/no-turning-back-rod-locker-modification-scout-192.73/


A large proportion of the sight fishing I do, both from my buddies Hell's Bay Glades Skiff, and my Bateau FS18 is in depths of 12" or less, and a lot of those areas we catch fish in 3"-6" with soft mud bottom. My favorite way to catch Red's is seeing a crawler cruising along a shallow mud bank and tossing a jig on shore, then slowly retrieving it back into the water. When we have those really super low tides, when very few guys can access these areas, including kayak fishers, we find big Red's with their bodies completely exposed from head to tail, belly in the mud. Both of these boats with two guys around 175 lbs. float in about 4.5"-5" and can be poled in 2" with soft mud bottom, although you wouldn't want to do that for very long. The beauty of fishing from a super light and shallow skiff is never having to worry about what the tide is doing. Before building my FS18, and fishing for years from the Glades skiff, I always commented about the boat, that "if it's wet, you can fish it". In five years I've only had to get out of either boat maybe 5 times to either drag it through the mud, or over a hump that had a hard bottom, otherwise you can usually just do a little wiggle on the poling platform and keep it moving forward while sliding side to side.


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## permitchaser

Well we went from hate to polling running numbers
My boat is not a tunnel but if I jack up the motor all the way, 6", I can run in 1.5' according to my depth finder. I don't know how shallow I am running on plane with the motor jacked up. I just know I can get off a flat if I have 1.5'
Now for polling draft I don't have a clue, its not 5" more like 8-9". I pole in water that I can use my TM in cause I like to sneak up on them


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## Jason

18" is a lot of water


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## Finn Maccumhail

coconutgroves said:


> Miles and miles of endless creeks and lakes here in TX where 5" draft is needed to access them. I've caught reds that were half way out of the water, belly sliding on the shore chasing bait with their eyes out of the water.
> 
> My B2 is a measured 6.5" draft on pole with 1 guy on the bow. I've sat at the mouth of a creek a half inch too heavy, knowing there were tons of fish stacked in the back.


And let's not forget that in the vast majority of those lakes you can't get out and wade without sinking to your nuts in nasty, clay mud.


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## EdK13

Finn Maccumhail said:


> And let's not forget that in the vast majority of those lakes you can't get out and wade without sinking to your nuts in nasty, clay mud.


 Florida Skiffers have no Idea- I know, I used to be one.


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## mtoddsolomon

EdK13 said:


> Florida Skiffers have no Idea- I know, I used to be one.


 Sounds like pluff mud in the carolinas. If you're not careful you'll sink to your armpits.

Around here for lows you need to be a 6" boat, and for Flood Tides you can probably get away with 8-9" but poling in that grass with a light 6" boat is much less tiring.


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## Smackdaddy53

Finn Maccumhail said:


> I'd venture to say that if you're fishing the Texas flats, regardless of whether or not it's the marsh on the Upper Coasts, the ultra-skinny grass flats of the Middle Coast, or the white sands of the Lower Laguna Madre if you're not poling something that can float in 8" or less loaded down with 2 men and gear you're going to be missing out on a lot of fishable water that's going to be substantially less pressured than the rest of the waters here.
> 
> If somebody can make a tunnel-hull skiff that can get up in less than a foot, run with the motor jacked up in that same water (or less), and still pole quietly in 8" (again, loaded down) then you've got an ideal Texas skiff.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that here in Texas the flats tend to be bigger and shallower than what you find in Florida so that you're not able to just pole a couple hundred yards into a channel and run.


Someone has already made that skiff, actually several skiffs fit those parameters.


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## Finn Maccumhail

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Someone has already made that skiff, actually several skiffs fit those parameters.


I'll admit I'm not up to speed on all the skiffs which meet those parameters but I'd imagine you need a tunnel and I'm only really well-acquainted with:

Hells Bay Guide
Maverick HPX-T


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## anytide

EdK13 said:


> Florida Skiffers have no Idea- I know, I used to be one.


south florida has some soft stuff.

i remember getting out to walk the skiff deeper somewhere on south end of the sabine river and i damn near disapeared.......


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## B&C

Add the Mitzi 17 tunnel to that list.


Finn Maccumhail said:


> I'll admit I'm not up to speed on all the skiffs which meet those parameters but I'd imagine you need a tunnel and I'm only really well-acquainted with:
> 
> Hells Bay Guide
> Maverick HPX-T


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## EdK13

Updates-are there any? My latest boat deal went south. Kinda Glad. It was really too damned big. I am one of the guys that put cash down on the Element. After many months of patiently waiting Tom sent my deposit back. I am really liking this boat. Just wish it had a tunnel....and I would buy it cold turkey. Who has demo'd it?


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## Chris Morejohn

Here I am in her the other day. This skiff will take a tunnel quite well.


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## Shalla Wata Rider

Congrats on the awesome skiff y'all are building ...finally someone built exactly how you designrd it!!!
Please get my number from Geneo...I have a few questions about your tunnel designs...
Again Great skiff...Love it!


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## EdK13

Hull # 2 is sold. https://hogfishdesign.wordpress.com/2017/07/18/building-lithium-hull-2/


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## sugarloafer

A deposit got returned?............i hear you must be a blood relative to get that done.


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## formerWAflyfisher

Any updates? Anybody heard anything about the lithium recently?


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## Smackdaddy53

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Any updates? Anybody heard anything about the lithium recently?


Look at the classifieds!


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## sugarloafer

Lithium 18.........the hurricane really slowed up progress.......lotsa stuff tore up in Islamodrama.
But different deck configuration molds and other ancillary molds are being built now.....

And as for all the naysayers here saying this skiff cannot do what is claimed it can.......they obviously do not know as much about boats as we do......there is not one of us associated with this project that hasn't been in this business at least 35 years.........i've been in it 50 years......thats fifty years of designing/building......and much bigger boats than this one.


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## Capnredfish

I'm sure you guys are great. Hell, Post office has been around longer than 50years and still gets it wrong. Not knocking you or your skiff. Just saying. 
I'll find something wrong with any and every skiff.


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## Chris Morejohn

[QUOTEt="Capnredfish, post: 389728, member: 4495"]I'm sure you guys are great. Hell, Post office has been around longer than 50years and still gets it wrong. Not knocking you or your skiff. Just saying.
I'll find something wrong with any and every skiff.[/QUOTE]
Here’s my design and build of my ultimate flats fishing mothership. It’s been in every creek in the Bahamas and across the Atlantic twice. In Antigua I have jumped hundreds of tarpon from it at night but the rigging gets in the way with casting in breezes. She’s a bitch to pole about even though we did sail her across the pond and back engineless.


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## Luke_B

looks tippy


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## copperhead

_I'll find something wrong with any and every skiff._

Perhaps you should provide the MS nation with your perfect skiff design and get it built...'perfect'... Just saying. With your expansive knowledge and skills why are your not building a skiff with nothing wrong? It'll always easy to detract from others efforts when you are providing no effort on your own.

What is "wrong" to one person is fine with another, and what is fine to one is wrong to another.

Why don't we focus on what is "right" about different design ideas so we can really move forward the skiff concept?


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## Smackdaddy53

Capnredfish said:


> I'm sure you guys are great. Hell, Post office has been around longer than 50years and still gets it wrong. Not knocking you or your skiff. Just saying.
> I'll find something wrong with any and every skiff.


What boat are you running? Post photos and I’ll nitpick it without ever touching it. There are things about my boat I dislike but it’s all a tradeoff.


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## sugarloafer

oh there are things everyone can find that they personally do not like about anything......thats just personal preference or opinion.

My point is the specs of this new skiff as stated by the builders ARE the specs.....its the DESIGN that accomplishes this.....set up a test drive and anyone can see for themselves.....why anyone would lie about something that is easily measurable is beyond me.

but then i see the water line on the transoms of Egrets, Mitzis, Mavericks and most others and i can see how everyone expects lies.

Check our boat out......WE are not lying.....we're too old to lie about anything godddamn it....


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## Capnredfish

I deleted my response. Not worth pissing off anyone here.


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## WhenSkiffsFly

Too much sugar in your loaf....You sound like Hal.


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## WhenSkiffsFly

Heres Shallow Hal on his Chittum Canoe


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## WhenSkiffsFly

Hal and George


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## Smackdaddy53

WhenSkiffsFly said:


> View attachment 18903
> Hal and George


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## EdK13




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## SomaliPirate

Why don't we start a Skiff roast thread? Each week somebody posts their skiff and we just roast the hell out of it.


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## No Bait / Lures Only

GullsGoneWild said:


>


My favorite, beating the dead horse. Like engineers working on a project...


----------

