# Orginal Hells Bay 16' Whipray comming Back



## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Hard time believing that they would be selling these at 20 but then they are asking between 35 and 40 for their current 16 whip. Just doesnt make sennse to me. I think the gladeskiff is like 25. 

But if they do sell them for 20 then you are right. They will sell the **** out of them.


----------



## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

I also have a hard time believing that it will be 20k. It's more labor to build it the "old school" way. Which means more money.


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

> I also have a hard time believing that it will be 20k. It's more labor to build it the "old school" way. Which means more money.



How would labor be more? I'm sure they would infuse the skiff just like there others.

My guess as it would just like my 2001 Waterman 16' I used to have. Hull, front deck with open bulkhead, built in tank, two large boxes on both sides of the stern, poling platform, limited electrical, Tiller motor(25hp-30hp) and galvanized Ramlin trailer.

Bare Bones! Unfinished floor etc...........like I said I don't know all the details and Hells Bay may not even know yet. I just know that HB is looking to get into the 20K skiff again. Maybe take away some of the market for their older used skiffs that are getting harder and harder to find and keep that profit in house.


----------



## swaddict (Dec 19, 2009)

> > I also have a hard time believing that it will be 20k. It's more labor to build it the "old school" way. Which means more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you're probably right, maybe 20k w/o motor, still that would be a smart move in this market


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

Believe me that Hells Bay knows there are a ton of people who are always looking for one of these 10+ year old skiffs and will pay a lot of money if they ever find one.


----------



## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

> > I also have a hard time believing that it will be 20k. It's more labor to build it the "old school" way. Which means more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The new boats are all built with liners. Because the old way is too labor intensive. You have to hand cut and fit all the bulkhead panels. filet the joints. Hand cut and fit the rod holders. Then finish,sand and paint everything when its back together. Its a lot easier to drop a gelcoated liner with the rod holders in there. They even started doing this with the Glades skiff. It can get any more basic than that


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2012)

I wonder how Ankona built my SUV17 "the old school way" and could turn any sort of profit! Maybe he only made $50 on my build and the same goes for the new Shadow Cast.

I have been to the Hells Bay factory a number of times and wet tested a Gladeskiff and Ambush with Tom Gordon and he had zero issues building the skiff I wanted without a liner.

The fact is that there are a lot of customers who want the "nice finished skiff" , but there are also a ton of people who could care less about it and want the simple lighter version that was produced 10+ years ago. 

Now if they would also bring back the old 17.8 Whipray I think I would have no choice but to order one.


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2012)

Swampfox


This is still a rumor, but I would bet it's going to happen.

You bought a used Lostman right? Nice skiff, but I know of a few that are built with no liners with a kevlar/carbon fiber build and they are sweet.

Most of these custom skiff companies will build exactly what you want. In some cases it's not possible like the Shipoke 14' and has to have a liner due to other factors built into the mold.


----------



## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

[quote author=

You bought a used Lostman right? Nice skiff, but I know of a few that are built with no liners with a kevlar/carbon fiber build and they are sweet.
.[/quote]

Yep I got a carbon/kevlar 07 no liner Lostmen. And I love it. Don't get me wrong I like the no liner HBs. I have drooled over them from the beginning. I used to live off Barna Ave in Titusvile. You could just about throw a rock from my house to the HB shop. To finish a boat to HB standards with no liner is a lot of work. I'm sure they would do it for a price. With small simple layouts it wouldn't be as bad. But with big boats like a 17.8 or my Lostmen there are a lot of hatches to be finished. While I would put the build quality of my Lostmen to be pretty close to a HB. The finish is not on par with HB. There is a lot of room for improvement. One day in about a decade or so I will re do it to my anal OCD specs.   ;D Maybe HB will drop the finish level and do more of a "raw" finish. Like thier original intent "to build the best jon boats on earth".

Mel builds a great price point boat. He doesn't use the same materials and techniques of the high end high price guys. But he doesn't charge insane prices either. He hand lays verything and uses polyester resin doesn't he? A proven technique that has worked well for decades now. But he is not pushing the envelope. I dig that new Shadowcast. I actually built a plug for a 17 boat similiar but with a drop down canoe like nose. My boat was basically a small Lostmen. A boat I think ECC should build to replace the Gladesman. That was about 8 years ago. Unfortuneately my job forced me to move to SC. So I had to cut the plug in half in order to move it. I still have the front half of the plug on the side of my shop. One of those one day dreams. :


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2012)

> [quote author=
> 
> You bought a used Lostman right? Nice skiff, but I know of a few that are built with no liners with a kevlar/carbon fiber build and they are sweet.
> .


Yep I got a carbon/kevlar 07 no liner Lostmen. And I love it. Don't get me wrong I like the no liner HBs. I have drooled over them from the beginning. I used to live off Barna Ave in Titusvile. You could just about throw a rock from my house to the HB shop. To finish a boat to HB standards with no liner is a lot of work. I'm sure they would do it for a price. With small simple layouts it wouldn't be as bad. But with big boats like a 17.8 or my Lostmen there are a lot of hatches to be finished. While I would put the build quality of my Lostmen to be pretty close to a HB. The finish is not on par with HB. There is a lot of room for improvement. One day in about a decade or so I will re do it to my anal OCD specs. [/quote]


Your right, but anyone looking for an older Hells Bay is not that interested in how finished it is , but how it performs.



The Lostman you have is they way to go! As ECC built more skiffs they got more and more "finished" as did Hells Bay. Your 07' or any 07' Lostman is going to be less finished/clean then a 12' that's what happens when 5 years pass on the same model.



Back to the Whipray!

The 16' Whipray and 16' Waterman(say 2001) were almost the same. The Waterman was less expensive. I loved my 2001 Waterman, but wanted to have things re-done, updated, new ramlin trailer and IMO it was not worth all the money I wanted to put into it and ended up selling it for more then I paid.


If Hells Bay did start producing the Original Whipray and the basic bare bones price came in at 20k how many potential customers would pass on that and buy another skiff in the same price range? I would say very few.


----------



## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

There was a bad ass 01 16 Waterman tunnel w/jack plate and all for 13k a few weeks back. Someone posted a CL link on here. It only lasted a day or 2. I always miss on deals like that. And it was in SC to boot. That's why you should stop looking after you make a purchase. ;D I agree I would jump on a new one for 20k. If I hadn't blew my cash already. :'( Almost bought one in pieces just before I found my Lostmen. It had new deck and bulk heads. But had a crappy trailer and no motor. It was gonna be a lot of work/time to put it together. I would have had 20k in it by the time I was finished and on the water.


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2012)

Well I guess Chris didn't get the message on the "Classic Whipray".

They were super light @ 325lbs. , ran low 20's with a Mercury 25hp 2 stroke and you could see fiberglass tape and seems as they were not fixated on Cosmetic Perfection, but Performance Perfection. They only cost 15K or so back in the old days of 2001.

Anyone know what the difference is between the "Classic" and "Standard" Whipray besides some retro platform and a Captain's Chair?


----------



## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> Well I guess Chris didn't get the message on the "Classic Whipray".


Whats with the negativity? Did you talk to Chris and he choose to disagree with your vision for HB and the Whipray? Ever consider that maybe thats the boat Flip wanted? 

If you don't like it start your own company and build your own flats boat. I hope your customers are as rude to you as you are to a guy who does more for the fishing community than anyone else I know.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Tom, agree 100% with you on Brazils comments. It seems he only likes to contribute his negative opinions on things. Too many threads that have his negative personal opinions that no one asks for. Just let people be. 

Just wondering what your stance is on Chris Peterson offering more to the fishing community then anyone else you know. From the very little bit I know about him, seems to me the only thing he has done is buy a company that developed its repuation without him that sells ridiculously expensive skiffs that the 99% of us couldnt ever afford? 

BUT like I said I dont know much about him. I just feel like somebody like Jose Wejebe (RIP) or Rick Murphy or Flip Pallot (orginal HB owner) or Lefty Kreh would be at the top of that list.


----------



## rashouri87 (Jul 2, 2009)

maybe folks should take a few minutes to talk TO people before they talk ABOUT them??? Mr. P has been putting in the serious sweat equity in order to ensure that our favorite anglers have a place to invest their well-valued input to create results.  Everytime I see him he's always doing something, whether that's with BTT, CCA, building boats, helping fishing lodges, even the small stuff like giving out waaay too much free stuff for all of us freeloaders b/c he's too nice.  Somehow amidst all of that stuff, he still has time to chat on the phone and take a few minutes to shoot the chit about whatever.  So yeah, he does do a lot more for the fishing community than almost anyone realizes.


----------



## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> Just wondering what your stance is on Chris Peterson offering more to the fishing community then anyone else you know. From the very little bit I know about him, seems to me  the only thing he has done is buy a company that developed its repuation without him that sells ridiculously expensive skiffs that the 99% of us couldnt ever afford?


I first met Chris in early 2007 when Microskiff was getting started. I think it was also pretty soon after he bought Hells Bay. He didn't know who I was and I didn't know much about his background either. We ran into each other at JB's Fish Camp in New Symerna. In the coversation I learned that Chris had just overcome major illness. One that many don't survivie but he did. He went from getting his personal affairs in order to needing something to do with his new lease on life. HB was that new opportunity. I was very struck by his perspective and how polite and professional he was when we talked. I immediatly had respect for him. At that time I had asked him to participate in the forum and he declined. I believe I recall it correctly that his reason was that forums like ours have a way of always going negative when discussing boats and the response to manufactures participating is not worth the hassle. His view (and again this is me recalling it from 5 plus years ago) what it was better not to participate. That comment was one of just a handful experiences during the creation of microskiff that have lead to me being so adimate that this remain a positive and family oriented place for us to share our enjoyment for small boats.  

Over the next few years. I watched Chris, his wife Wendi and the rest of the team revive HB to what it is now. We ran into each other at different events. Fishing Tournments, Boat Shows, and Charity Fundraisers. Every time I saw him the company was growing and the perception from those I knew was positive. It was good to see a manufacture be successful even during the economic down turn. Many of the times I saw Chris and the HB crew was during Coastal Conservation Association charity events. HB was a primary sponsor and I have seen them raise if not hundreds of thousands then tens of thousands of dollars for protecting the activity that we all love. That alone earns my repsect.

As far as what market segment HB targets when selling new boats. I just don't see a reason to get angry about them building and selling expensive quality boats. Their business model is no different than most industries. There will always be those who sell to that segment. HB does a great job and IMO its nice to see a local company be successful. I also appreciate the fact that they revived a brand that was in bankruptcy. 

Lastly, I have several friends who fish out of HB boats. All of them are middle class guys who work for a living. I believe all of them bought their HB boats used because thats what they could afford. Most of them have had work done on their boats by the new HB lead by Chris and have nothing but good things to say about the work and their experience. And at least one of them had the help of HB in finding a used boat he could afford. If I recall correctly is was a boat that came back to HB as a trade in. When he picked it up it might as well been new. I consider all of this a testimant to their interest in working with anyone who has the same love for their boats that they do.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Thanks for that Tom. Like I said I didnt know much about him other then that he bought HB. I can see that you really respect the guy and I can appreciate that. 

I dont think hes a bad guy, Im sure hes probably a really nice guy and and Im sure hes pretty well off so he is able to donate a lot of money and sponsor events. BUT I just dont see the correlation to being someone who contributes so much to the fishing community. 

IMO wisdom and experience is much more rich then all the money in the world. The people I mentioned before come to mind when I think of people who have contributed to the fishing community.


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2012)

Tom, why are you attacking me? Negative? Where in my post did I say anything negative about Chris, owner of HB? Where did I post he was a bad guy, did nothing for our environment, community etc........... 

Is this forum to discuss things or to just agree, agree, agree, agree, agree.......................................................? 




There was talk a few months back of HB reproducing the "Original" Whipray. Simple, functional, bare bones and @ around 20K.

^ That is all this thread was about!


----------



## Taterides (Nov 10, 2008)

Chris P is a stand up guy. He is a fisherman and gives back to the community. Knowledge is great to contribute but they also make sure fishing has a future. From conservation to kids fishing programs I have yet to see anyone be more generous.

I am a middle class guy that has a 1st generation rig costing normal money. They still treat you like a new customer. 

Just my thoughts on Chris P.


----------



## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> why are you attacking me? Negative? Where in my post did I say anything negative about Chris, owner of HB? Where did I post he was a bad guy, did nothing for our environment, community etc...........


Because you wrote this - 


> Well I guess Chris didn't get the message on the "Classic Whipray".


No one else what taking about rumors of a Whipray in the 20k range but you. You didn't site any credible sources. Others here cautioned you that it wasn't realistic and now you have come out and made negative comments such as "Chris didn't get the message". Your surprised I jumped on that? After you did it to one of the most respected people in the skiff community? Really?



> Is this forum to discuss things or to just agree, agree, agree, agree, agree.......................................................?


You are missing the point completely. We can disagree. We can have differences of opinion. I encourage both but the way to go about it is to be polite to each other and the subjects of our discussions. I get a lot of feedback regarding the excellent quality of this website and forum. The overwhelming responses are that we are a huge repository of information about small boats and the quality of posts is outstanding. Occasionally there are a few who degrade that reputation through negativity, inappropriate comments, derailing threads, or just bad commentary. All I am asking is don't be one of them.


----------



## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> I dont think hes a bad guy, Im sure hes probably a really nice guy and and Im sure hes pretty well off so he is able to donate a lot of money and sponsor events. BUT I just dont see the correlation to being someone who contributes so much to the fishing community.
> 
> IMO wisdom and experience is much more rich then all the money in the world. The people I mentioned before come to mind when I think of people who have contributed to the fishing community.


Its not about him being wealthy or making donations. I purposely didn't go there and carefully said that he helped raise money and participates in groups like CCA, BTT, IGFA and others. The intent was to show participation in aspects of the community that benefit us as whole regardless of if we are HB customers. Like the other said, he is simply a good guy doing good things for our sport and the environment we rely upon. He deserves a lot of respect for his actions. 

If you run into Chris take the time to talk with him and get to know him. I think you will come to the same conclusion.



> I just feel like somebody like Jose Wejebe (RIP) or Rick Murphy or Flip Pallot (orginal HB owner) or Lefty Kreh would be at the top of that list.


All great guys. I haven't had a lot of interaction with any of them. Met Flip a handful of times. Even sat at dinner with him once. While I have huge admiration for his contributions to skiff design, his fishing ability, his film making and and participation in the community I just haven't gotten to know him well.


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2012)

There were "rumors" of HB bring back the old Whipray for the last 6 months on other internet sites, employees and others who are involved in HB directly.

The figure of 20K was almost a joke, but this had more to do with how the skiff would be built then price.

Why are HB Skiffs in huge demand for pre-2005?


----------



## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

> Anyone know what the difference is between the "Classic" and "Standard" Whipray besides some retro platform and a Captain's Chair?


If you are referring to the "Standard" as in current Whipray sold by HB vs. Classic edition there are a few differences.

The standard has a redesigned hull. I think it was redesigned in 2005ish but not sure. If you look closely the back end is wider as the spray rails end before the stern. The Classic has the original Whipray/Waterman hull.

Also the standard Whipray has a cap similar to the current 18 Waterman. The Classic has the original large rear hatch with crustacean well in the back deck. 

They are also building the Classic without a liner it appears. The standard Whipray has a liner...but I'm guessing it could be built without if you wanted to pay for it. 

BTW I am also one of the middle class people with a used HB.


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Well said Tom. Chris Peterson is a great guy for the fishing community. His effects are huge for CCA through his yearly skiff donations. It generates a great deal of money statewide through raffle ticket sakes.  One of these days I'm going to win that raffle.  He and Wendi set up at Polk CCA's Lakeland Fish/Dive Expo last year and was the hit of the show.


----------



## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

BrazilNut posted..._"This has been posted in other places, but I have talked with a few people who are close to Hells Bay and it sounds like it's going to happen in the next few months.
I heard the price was going to be @ 20K. "_

Why don't you be more specific who your sources were?  I was at the HB plant 2 months ago and the 2 EMPLOYES I met both said the ballpark price of the Classic was going to be around $40k.

As far as Chris P. being _"pretty well off"_, what does that have to do with how or why a man contributes hard earned $ to the fishing community?  Bottom line is that HB has been in the forefront of conservation and preservation of our resources and has help to raise well over $100k for various fishing groups thru their donations and auctions.  When he bought the company, there were a large group of customers who lost their deposits in the bankruptcy.  Chris P. dug into his own pockets and gave each customer that was screwed by the previous owner, a $10k credit towards the boat they had on order before the bust.  I've had my own business for 28 years and I and count on 1 finger the number of business owners I've met that have made good on what a previous owner promised - it just don't happen.  It's no secret that their boats are expensive - why would any company produce a boat for 45% less than a model in it's current lineup?  Don't blame them that some guy on a forum pulled a $20k number out of his azz based on "people close to HB".  Next time pick up a phone and call the man -get the truth.


----------



## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

> Anyone know what the difference is between the "Classic" and "Standard" Whipray besides some retro platform and a Captain's Chair?


I believe the new "Standard" Whipray was designed without the spray rail leading all the way back, so the stern would be wider at the waterline in order to support heavier 4 stroke outboards. In addition, the newer model has a 20" transom to accomodate a wider offering of outboards. Power trim and tilt are only available on 20" shaft from most manufacturers these days.. 

The "Classic" Whipray is the old school design with a 15" transom, although HB has a nifty transom riser so it will handle 20" shafts like Flip's 60hp ETEC...

I called HB to inquire about the transom riser for my Gordon 16' in the event that I repower in the future. The riser is reasonably priced around $200 and they should be of interest to anyone that re-powers their older 15" transom skiff.. The only problem is that you would have to raise your poling platform to accomodate the higher cowling height.

I think what Brazilnut was trying to get across is the rumor that HB would have a boat that would be around 20K, not that Chris P. was a bad guy.. 

The price of Flip's boat with 60hp ETEC, trailer and all of the accessories as shown is substantially higher than 20K.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

The "middle class" people bought them used or early 2000'.s Now for a new skiff they want $50,000+ for a 16 foot skiff with a 70hp motor. Sorry but seems a little outrageous to me. 

And I will say it again. I dont hate the guy for making expensive boats. There is a market for everything and people who have been succesful in life and have worked hard should use there money.

I just dont see how the owner of a compnay is all that influential to the fishing community. I think the same thing about sports. I hate when the all the praise goes to the owner of the team. Yeah he pays the bills, but hes not on the field. George Steinbrener gets more credit for Yankees success then anyone else yet hes never got a hit for them or actually coached the team.

I originally responded to Tom's comment because I really didnt know anything about CP but didnt think an owner of boat building company could do soooo much for the fishing community. Dont want to continue to derail the thread.


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2012)

To the above posters:

*Where did anyone say Chris Peterson was a bad guy?

*Where did anyone say anything about how expensive they are and that the average "working man" do not own them?

*Where did anyone say HB does not put out a great skiff?


You guys read a single post and comment before reading anywhere in the thread if that is said! Read the thread a find MY quote's that I said any of the following.

It's obvious that HB used the original hull, re-moved the liner, Chair, Platform etc...........to cut 100lbs off the current Whipray.


When this "rumor" started people I talked to were hoping that when HB was bringing back the Classic they thought of this:














The rumor was false! End of story, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people would have paid 40K for a Brand New skiff as seen above then the one HB decided to put out.


----------



## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

TBN,

Put down the keyboard, pick up your fishing rod and get some fresh air.


----------

