# hells bay boat values



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

What's the deal with these boats? Having never fished out of one its hard to understand. I have fished a lot of skiffs, all have a trade offs none are 100% perfect, I imagine they are no different. They seem to defy the laws of depreciation and common sense. Not knocking them in any way they look amazing. Just can't grasp the fact that 15 + year old boats are commanding the kind of money they do considering the other new options available. What's the deal?


At what point do they drop in value? It seems if you bought a 15 year old boat, fished it for another 5 years you would probably make money.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I think the company was there at the right time and place. Built a great boat. Cutting edge for its time. Every other boat is compared to them it seems. People's statements prove it. People say "I can go as shallow as a hells bay for $$$". Ok but it's not a hells bay. I am proof. I bought a beavertail B2. How close is that? But I love mine.


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## hferrell87 (Jan 28, 2013)

> What's the deal with these boats? Having never fished out of one its hard to understand. I have fished a lot of skiffs, all have a trade offs none are 100% perfect, I imagine they are no different. They seem to defy the laws of depreciation and common sense.  Not knocking them in any way they look amazing. Just can't grasp the fact that 15 + year old boats are commanding the kind of money they do considering the other new options available. What's the deal?
> 
> 
> At what point do they drop in value? It seems if you bought a 15 year old boat, fished it for another 5 years you would probably make money.


Have been on many different skiffs & multiple HB's. I have asked myself the same question about how a 10+ year old boat still holds a good size return when you sell it. I have been looking and researching every boat/brand from 16'-19' & wet tested multiple boats in the process. 

In my opinion, Hell's Bay is the creme of the crop. Beautiful lines on their boats, awesome performance, great resale value. I know they use top of the line materials when building, but does this justify a $40k+ price tag on it, HELL NO! 
When I think to myself about spending 40k+, I envision myself on a sick, lightly used off shore boat or bay boat & even that can be done with less money.

I would love to see a breakdown sheet of expenses that HB is paying to build the boat/payroll, then compare that to what they actually sell it to customers for... My thought is that people are paying a ton of money for the name. 

Brands like East Cape, Beavertail, Maverick, etc... all will perform awesome and use high end materials as well! Even they can be unrealistic with prices too!

I'm sure everyone has their own opinion and I'm sure that people disagree with me on this, but when someone can logically justify spending $40k+ on any skiff that just floats skinny and rides good, I'm all ears... I would rather run skinny in a boat I don't mind getting fish blood in without freaking out...


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

To understand the current prices you have to look back into the company's history.

When HB first started, the boats were NOT $40k each.

In 1999-2001 a Whipray costed around $15k give or take...and the construction was much simpler-but not SO vastly different to justify adding $30k to the price tag.

The company then went bankrupt due to a bunch of reasons and bad happenings, then it was brought back into notoriety along with new prices.

Through the years, prices just went up and up. Liners were added, product line expanded, research and development, new molds, outboard prices have also gone up $2-3k since 2001 as well.

Now, look at the used VS new prices. The 'current' price of a basic 2013 Whipray is well over $30k....but a basic 2000 Whipray was half that. People see the current prices, and base their used price off that.

Is a 1999-2004 Whipray worth $18,000? Hell no, but people pay it because of the current prices...but little do they know, if the owner is the only owner, he basically is making his money back on the sale.


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## mxbeebop (Mar 22, 2013)

It takes a tremendous amount of hand labor by skilled people to get that final 10% of perfection.


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## Rediculous (May 5, 2012)

If I could, I totally would. Since I can't, I'm lucky there are much cheaper options for getting skinny. I think the older ones that have been redone, especially by either Gordon or Glasser, are absolutely worth 18k. Compared to most of the newer boats I see for sale on here, in that price range, I would rather have a top quality built boat. Even if it was 10-15 years old. But, I'm just gonna continue Boozlin' since even an 18k skiff seems ridiculous from my financial standpoint.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Some of the redone hb's by gordon and glasser probably look better than the original hulls when they were new. Regardless of the fiberglass work done on them I would have a hard time dropping that kind of money on a skiff with an older motor with hundreds of hours. 
Do I want a 17.8 professional. Hell yes. Do I have 45k? Maybe if I get over half of it back in 15 years.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Hells Bay isn't the only skiff around that commands premium prices (consider the Egret for a moment -their re-sale value is also quite high) but in the small skiff market, HB has led the way.

One other way of looking at current pricing for older Hells Bay skiffs... Your money was actually worth considerably more ten to fifteen years ago...

When someone tells me how much gold is worth these days I usually figure they don't want to know the true story is -----how little their money is worth....


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## Parrboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Tread lightly bro. I asked the same question a few months ago and was attacked like crazy. Hope it goes better for you


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

If you build it, they will come
They built it, and they came


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## SNOOK48 (Sep 10, 2012)

A lot of people pay just for the name rather than the actual boat.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

The hells bays were way ahead of their time imo. Not just in build materials, quality etc but the layout.
Look at the layout on one of their oldest model boats, its still 100% relevant and still the exact way everyone wants it layed out to this day. Now look at other skiffs from the early 1990's..., night and day..
Building something that will always be relevant is key in the boat industry because things are always changing some for the better some for the worse.
I think it was leonardo davinci that sayed something like "simplicity is the purest form of perfection"
Wonder why whiprays with no liner don't last a week on the market?


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

Quality boats retain there value because people love them for there ride, quietness, reliability, and resale value. Many cheaper boats fall apart quickly and have no customer interaction once you buy there boat. For instance maverick has mulitple owner tournaments and treats there customers well even if you bought the boat used, there's a forum with all kinds of great people to help you with your rig. Hells bay has a following with many top anglers and guides running there boats. Plus many fishing legends designed them for a purpose in which we all love. Who wants a brand x with no support or resale value, who designed the hull Brunswick corp, don't they make bowling pins? You get what you pay for most of the time ;D


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Brunswick built boats hold their value possibly better than hells bay..
^
|
Boston whaler


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

> Quality boats retain there value because people love them for there ride, quietness, reliability, and resale value. Many cheaper boats fall apart quickly and have no customer interaction once you buy there boat. For instance maverick has mulitple owner tournaments and treats there customers well even if you bought the boat used, there's a forum with all kinds of great people to help you with your rig. Hells bay has a following with many top anglers and guides running there boats. Plus many fishing legends designed them for a purpose in which we all love. Who wants a brand x with no support or resale value, who designed the hull Brunswick corp, don't they make bowling pins? You get what you pay for most of the time ;D


You're talking to the wrong guy, I owned a maverick hpx. If it weren't for my local dealer the support would have been self funded for several issues, one of the being major. Different story altogether but your argument isnt exactly accurate. At the end of the day it was a good boat, resale was ok but left upset about the whole customer experience.

Back to hb, aside from the asthetic and function the resale value and demand are hard to ignore. Maybe more up front but at the end of the day is it really more expensive than some of the other top tier skiffs when you factor in their resale values?


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## franklin.howell (Aug 11, 2009)

In my humble opinion it doesn't matter what it costs Hell's Bay to build them . The market dictates the actual selling price through supply and demand. People are willing to pay up for the older skiffs because the new ones are more expensive . Remember that Hell's Bay Boatworks is a "BOATWORKS" meaning they will modify,customize,and create pretty much whatever a customer wants to make his skiff special.I speak from experience through 7 different skiffs purchased  from the original owners and current owners. These are not necessarily production skiffs like other manufacturers. The fact that their skiffs retain such high resale value is a testament to quality,performance,and customer satisfaction. Sure there are other skiffs that will get you up on a flat for alot less but that's like comparing a Chevy to a Bentley. Both will get you to the grocery store. I think that in the end what someone is willing to pay is based on what they can afford, how important the product is to them,and it's resale value. Price is only an issue in the absence of value.


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## swflatails (Jul 20, 2011)

> In my humble opinion it doesn't matter what it costs Hell's Bay to build them . The market dictates the actual selling price through supply and demand. People are willing to pay up for the older skiffs because the new ones are more expensive . Remember that Hell's Bay Boatworks is a "BOATWORKS" meaning they will modify,customize,and create pretty much whatever a customer wants to make his skiff special.I speak from experience through 7 different skiffs purchased  from the original owners and current owners. These are not necessarily production skiffs like other manufacturers. The fact that their skiffs retain such high resale value is a testament to quality,performance,and customer satisfaction. Sure there are other skiffs that will get you up on a flat for alot less but that's like comparing a Chevy to a Bentley. Both will get you to the grocery store. I think that in the end what someone is willing to pay is based on what they can afford, how important the product is to them,and it's resale value. Price is only an issue in the absence of value.



pretty much nailed it.


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## mxbeebop (Mar 22, 2013)

> A lot of people pay just for the name rather than the actual boat.


Perhaps with other types of boats, But my experience has been, Skiff buyers are pretty savvy, the market is growing and very competitive. You pretty much get what you pay for with a Polling Skiff.


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## grovesnatcher (Sep 25, 2007)

FMH you explained it much better than I. I've always looked at skiffs kind of like classic cars. I love a bunch of different models but a 57 Chevy is a classic worthy of a restore, just like a old whipray, they just are cool and bring joy to the people who own them. 


Johnath Glasser is redoing my classic right now and I couldn't be more excited ;D


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## franklin.howell (Aug 11, 2009)

I have also noticed over the last couple of years a somewhat cult following on these 16 Whipray Classics. I think it's because there is a large group of anglers out there that fish mostly for redfish which are much more prolific than bonefish and other shallow water species. Also redfish are available as far west as Texas and up the east coast to Virginia I think. Hence , more shallow water anglers who are able to pursue them. You take that group and figure that a decent percentage might want what is generally perceived to be one of the best ultra shallow technical poling skiffs ( the Whipray)and you create a healthy market for the older skiffs. 
I believe that there will always be those that will be willing to pay a premium  for products that have demonstrated quality and value over time. The Hell's Bay Whipray clearly falls under that category. It's also reassuring that Hell's Bay Boatworks and Islamarine are in business and are very knowledgable with the skiff for repairs and such..


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

they are sweet boats. I suspect most people buying them are fairly well off and don't sweat the price at all. My employer pays cash for a new range rover every 2 years, 90K. I don't have that luxury.


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## TheDude (Dec 14, 2010)

> they are sweet boats.  I suspect most people buying them are fairly well off and don't sweat the price at all.  My employer pays cash for a new range rover every 2 years, 90K.  I don't have that luxury.


That may be true for a lot of Hells Bay owners, but the one thing that surprises me is the number of guides I know who don't exactly have a ton of disposable income that spent the money on Hells Bays.

The fact is that they've struck a rare balance between innovation (really initially, a few years back), quality, performance, and branding. The branding thing is huge; they've done a great job of establishing themselves as THE premier skinny water skiff, which is why I think you see guides scraping their nickels together and taking out loans to buy a used one. Basically, it gives them instant credibility among their target client base.

Not that I think it's all marketing hype. I've fished on Hells Bays as well as a number of other high end (and low end) skiffs. In my opinion, they make the finest shallow water skiffs out there (that's not to say they haven't had some dogs in their line-up - they have). But there are some other companies cranking out some really nice skiffs nowadays, which ramps up the pressure on Hells Bay not just from a product standpoint but from a marketing standpoint as well. Having the Flip Pallots and CA Richardsons and Blair Wiggins and Andy Mills on your pro staff ain't cheap either, so remaining a premium brand is an expensive proposition that ultimately is reflected in price. That's also a reason why the used hulls will hold their value.

As someone else pointed out earlier, they're really not more expensive over the life of the skiff because of their great resale - it's just a higher buy-in price up-front.

Either way, I drive a base model Chevy, and my skiff is almost 15 years old, so I'll probably never own one.


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

I am on my second used HB. The quality is just ridiculously good. Even the older skiffs that were not perfect are still light years ahead of what was around at the time. They were innovative for their time for sure. I think others have drawn level with HB in terms of innovation lately but the build quality is still top notch. The Whipray, 17.8, Glades Skiff, Waterman 18 and to some extent the Guide are just proven designs that are well loved. Sometimes you just get it right and things become classic and loved. My 2001 which was refurbished somewhat in the 2007 timeframe has had less problems than friends with newer skiffs.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm all about getting a great old skiff, fixing it up and putting new power on it. Total restoration by a professional is out of my league though.


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## shiprock8 (Sep 23, 2013)

> > Quality boats retain there value because people love them for there ride, quietness, reliability, and resale value. Many cheaper boats fall apart quickly and have no customer interaction once you buy there boat. For instance maverick has mulitple owner tournaments and treats there customers well even if you bought the boat used, there's a forum with all kinds of great people to help you with your rig. Hells bay has a following with many top anglers and guides running there boats. Plus many fishing legends designed them for a purpose in which we all love. Who wants a brand x with no support or resale value, who designed the hull Brunswick corp, don't they make bowling pins? You get what you pay for most of the time ;D
> 
> 
> You're talking to the wrong guy, I owned a maverick hpx. If it weren't for my local dealer the support would have been self funded for several issues, one of the being major. Different story altogether but your argument isnt exactly accurate. At the end of the day it was a good boat, resale was ok but left upset about the whole customer experience.
> ...


Maverick has had runs of bad skiffs over the years where something went wrong with their build.  I have personally heard many sad stories where customers got no support from Maverick for poor workmanship.  I am not saying that they have a bad product, just that they sometimes don't execute and then don't back up their mistakes.  Hellsbay, on the other hand, has always backed up their boats.  I have had many skiffs over the last 30 years, including Mavericks and HB's.  I had one HB skiff for 10 years and never once had a problem with the hull or electrical.  When Tom Gordon was in charge of production, he was meticulous about their builds.  That is why HB boats built when Tom was in charge bring so much money on the used market more than a decade after they were built.


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

> > > Quality boats retain there value because people love them for there ride, quietness, reliability, and resale value. Many cheaper boats fall apart quickly and have no customer interaction once you buy there boat. For instance maverick has mulitple owner tournaments and treats there customers well even if you bought the boat used, there's a forum with all kinds of great people to help you with your rig. Hells bay has a following with many top anglers and guides running there boats. Plus many fishing legends designed them for a purpose in which we all love. Who wants a brand x with no support or resale value, who designed the hull Brunswick corp, don't they make bowling pins? You get what you pay for most of the time ;D
> >
> >
> > You're talking to the wrong guy, I owned a maverick hpx. If it weren't for my local dealer the support would have been self funded for several issues, one of the being major. Different story altogether but your argument isnt exactly accurate. At the end of the day it was a good boat, resale was ok but left upset about the whole customer experience.
> ...


Hell's Bay has also had their track record of bad support. Even as recently as the Hell's Bay Skate which had a problem with the fuel tank vent sucking in water constantly and blowing 4-stroke engines. Customers out of state who didnt leave near the factory got slow and painful support for the issue.


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## Ginclear (Aug 11, 2013)

My son and I own 2 Hell's Bay skiffs between us . Mine is a 2009 Waterman 18 
and his is a 2000 Waterman 16 . The 18 draws 6 1\2" with fuel and gear and 8"
with the 2 of us . The skiff cuts 1' chop like a serrated knife , will not slide in 
a 90 degree turn at 30 mph , tops out at 37.5 with 2 anglers , poles into or 
across an 18 mph wind , spins and poles in another direction at will , and fishes 3 
comfortably . The cockpit is laid out thoughtfully ( center console w ice chest 
seat ) and the hatch covers fit perfectly . The fit and finish are beautiful and 
blood and slime clean off easily . I hope , with care , the 70 2s Yamaha will 
keep purring like it has the last 200 hrs . Oh , I never have to get the hubs on 
the aluminum Ramlin wet , even when we launch in some backwater ditch . 
I don't know how shallow the hole shot can be , but we got her up in a measured 
10" deep hole about twice the size of the skiff on a otherwise 5" deep flat and
ran out ( OK , we got caught on a strange flat in a falling tide . )

My son's 16 draws a little less than 3" with fuel and gear and 5 " with the 2 
of us . The 25 2s Mercury pushes the craft at 28 mph and will not slide in a 
90 degree turn at 25 mph . We thought this skiff would pole and turn easily , 
and it does , but , surprisingly , the 18 poles easier when the wind tops 15 mph 
or so . This is an open cockpit ultralight ( carbon/kevlar ) tiller design , with 
no gunnels . Very clean and functional . Cuts the chop like the 18 , amazingly .
This hull color is dead grass green , which is an almost unfairly stealthy color .
We caught several 27" redfish yesterday all within 10' of the boat , all we had 
to do was flick the fly out with the wrist , and not move anything else , they 
never knew we were there . No jackplate on this skiff , so takes a little more 
depth to get her up . Not sure about adding a jackplate , hate to mess with her
draft . So this boat is 13 years old and in perfect shape . ( It was well cared 
for . ) 

Now I read some posts on this thread that inform me that no way in Hell are 
these skiffs worth what we payed for them . And that the only reason we were 
foolish enough to pay that much for them is because of the prestige of the 
Hells' Bay brand that was created by clever marketing . We were duped . 
I would never have known this but for the special insight that some on this 
site possess . So now that I know that there are skiffs out there that cost 
much , much less and will perform and last just the same , or better . I 
need to know what they are , so I can unload these turkeys on some other 
unsuspecting rich twit .


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

> One other way of looking at current pricing for older Hells Bay skiffs... Your money was actually worth considerably more ten to fifteen years ago...
> 
> When someone tells me how much gold is worth these days I usually figure they don't want to know the true story is -----how little their money is worth....


This is so spot on! I would encourage anyone to read The Creature from Jekyll Island. Since no one will, it's about the Federal Reserve, the devaluation of the dollar, and the Megaminds behind cyclical money bubbles.


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## Blatattack (Aug 23, 2012)

Every company has had their issues and lemons. When you point out a gas vent problem, that has nothing to do with the build or craftsmanship. The experience and proffesionalism you get with this company is whats worth its value. Its so aggrivating to see people compare these boats with IPB or skull island or any other company like this. Not to nock them too much but HB got these bugs worked out in the mid-90's! Holes in the resin and just poor methods of fiberglass work caused some headache for some people with these newer companys. Nobody is perfect but HB is getting pretty close.....


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Umm nothing against ipb but skull island is a much more finer put together boat (build and fit and finish)
I've had my hands all over one and many hells bays. They are about dead even on fit and finish.
The only thing that could possible separate them is customer support


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## Blatattack (Aug 23, 2012)

So a 14 y/o skull island is going to look like just like a 14 y/o HB with the same care??? :


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

No, it will still look like a well maintained skull island.
What's your beef with skull island. They use all the same parts for rigging their boats (livorsi leds, stainless rub rails, both have excellent wiring and rigging) the layups are a little different but that's almost personal preference. I personally would rather onw a hand laid hull as I've seen wwwaaayyy to many failures on vac bagging (only as good as who's operating the bag and vaccum)
But skull island has a very good layup schedule


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

[/quote]Hell's Bay has also had their track record of bad support. Even as recently as the Hell's Bay Skate which had a problem with the fuel tank vent sucking in water constantly and blowing 4-stroke engines. Customers out of state who didnt leave near the factory got slow and painful support for the issue.
[/quote]

Perhaps so if you say it is so. But you have to agree that the Skate was a concept ahead of its time. It seems it was on the cusp of the 4S rage which may account for a bit of misunderstanding of the potential issue. Like to see them bring that little guy back.


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## pudding08 (Sep 5, 2010)

> So a 14 y/o skull island is going to look like just like a 14 y/o HB with the same care??? :


What's your beef with other companies other than Hells Bay?  Just because SI hasn't been around for 20 years doesn't make them a bad company with a crappy boat. 

The builder who works for SI has been working with composites and foam cores way before Hell's Bay was even started.  Just because the company name isn't as big as HB doesn't mean the way they do things isn't as good.  

I personally love HB's but they are out of my price range so I went with an SI because I wanted a high quality boat that fit my budget.  You seem to be trolling a few threads with SI mentioned in it now.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

> The builder who works for SI has been working with composites and foam cores way before Hell's Bay was even started.


X2! You won't find many people with more experience with glass and composites than Paul Ellig......


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

> So a 14 y/o skull island is going to look like just like a 14 y/o HB with the same care??? :


Yup, and maybe better... I'm fortunate to own a HB, but have no doubts that Skull Island is a very well constructed skiff and I would not hesitate purchasing one if I was in the market.


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)




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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

> So a 14 y/o skull island is going to look like just like a 14 y/o HB with the same care??? :


Who are you again?


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm fairly confident that the $9.995 intro price was on the "no gunnel" waterman, possibly the Whipray, but rest assured, it was not a full blown side console, full deck Whip.

I wish I still had a copy of the 1998 of 1999 HB "spiral bound" brochure, but I probably wore it out paging through and hoping that I would have that boat one day. 

They're still that and a "bag of chips"!


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## shiprock8 (Sep 23, 2013)

> Umm nothing against ipb but skull island is a much more finer put together boat (build and fit and finish)
> I've had my hands all over one and many hells bays. They are about dead even on fit and finish.
> The only thing that could possible separate them is customer support


A HB Whip is just a better skiff than the SI and it is 15 years older. Not to say that the SI isn't a good skiff for what it is. I have operated an SI, and the fit and finnish was very good.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

How is it better?
Does the si draft 3.5inches while the whipray drafts 3 1/8?
Given your screen name its clear your a bit biased. And that's fine, everyone is biased to the boat they own.
But better is a broad statement. As I've already described, the both use the best wire, connections, rigging, lights, rubrail etc. Being that they are fiberglass hulls they will be around much longer than you and me both.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

They all suck! LOL ;D because they all break at some point or another! J\k


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