# Unimpressive Hole Shot - 2000 Ranger Cayman 191



## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

I am at the tail end of breaking in my rebuilt 200HP motor. I had a 150 on it prior to the 200 rebuild and installation. I was hoping for a better holeshot with the added 50HP. So far I have been pretty disappointed. The first video is me punching it and the second is me easing into it. My mechanic just replaced the plugs yesterday and I am still feeling like it is lacking, especially when I punch it. Please take a look at the two videos and let me know what you think. New on Vimeo too, so let me know if it isn't working. :-/

http://vimeo.com/95551082

http://vimeo.com/95551651


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

The videos don't tell much. What boat, what motor, what prop? 2-stroke or 4-stroke, all up weight?


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

2000 Ranger Cayman 191, 2002 Mercury 200 Carb, 2 stroke, 23P Tempest Plus 3 blade, 2-stroke, weight I'm not sure... definitely fat.  The video is with myself and one passenger and about 3/4 tank of gas.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

Now that's a microskiff!!!

Hope you get it worked out!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Do you have trim tabs? If not invest in them, they can a address a lot of holeshot issues.. What is the difference in weight between motors? Are you comparing a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke? Is the new motor propped right? How is compression on rebuilt motor?
Lots of variables, we need more info to help


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

It has Bennet trim tabs, but they are in the up position, not down.  The 150 that I had was a 2001 Mecury 150, two stroke as well, I believe there is little difference in weight between the two motors.  I don't know what the compression is on the rebuilt motor.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'd think 200 hp with a 2-stroke would pop a Cayman right out of the water. What RPM and speed are you getting at WOT?


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

Today I had it at 5,500 RPM and was running 50 MPH... I don't think I had it trimmed out 100% as well as the jack plate was fairly low... It was pretty windy and I was in a pretty big lake, so it was pretty choppy.

I can start putting the trim tabs down, but I was thinking with the 200, it would need them unless I was in a shallow water situation.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Dumb question but did you have the motor tucked / trimmed all the way up against the transom when you shot the video? Having trim tabs that are not engaged probably didn't do you any favors.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

Yes, it was trimmed all the way in, and jack plate was pretty close to down all the way.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

You are adding 50 hp but you can also be adding a lot of weight potentially which causes squat. I would check to see what the difference is.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

Not sure how accurate NADA is but it has them both listed at 406lbs.  I believe they are very similar motors.

Also, the prop is what Ranger recommended for that boat and motor combo. It also was recommended by someone that had the same boat that is a member on here.


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## GSSF (May 25, 2013)

That motor oughtta rip that boat out of the hole. Something is terribly, terribly wrong.


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## Parrboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Yeah bro. Should snap your head back. I would try another prop, also jack all the way down. The difference a couple inches of pitch makes is incredible


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

My mechanic is gonna go through the carbs next week and check them out. I'll have him check the compression too. He talked about sending the prop to get worked... Should I just look at a completely different prop? I was thinking that something wasn't right, when I upgraded on the motor I was expecting a lot more!


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Best hole shot would be with the motor all the way down on trim and jack plate with tabs all the way down too. From what I can tell watching the your video, RPM is coming up very slowly. Your RPM at WOT is where it should be, but if I calculated properly, your prop slip is pretty high at about 22%. You may do better with a lower pitched 4-blade prop.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

Ok, I will start looking at other props.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

150/200hp mercs are the same from back then just a few mods to get that extra hp.

A ranger cayman is a tank of a boat, so your going to be limited in hole shot.

I would drop down to a 21"pitch and see how it performs. 

Your not going to see big differences between a 150hp and 200hp, now if you would have jumped up to a 225hp that's a whole other animal. 

GL


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Same block extra 50hp? Got to love that!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I would not spend any money on a prop until you get the motor fixed.

The first video of you punching it clearly shows the engine bogging. Once you get to 2k it jumps right to 3k. It should jump from idle to 3k or more that quick. Something wrong with the motor.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

My mechanic is supposed I check it out next week. I won't let him leave till I see improvement!


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

Another thing I just noticed too is that it does have the vented plug system on the prop... All three plugs are in the prop and are large hole plugs. Should I try removing one or more plugs completely to see if that helps with the hole shot or should I just assume that something on the motor is not working properly and wait for my mechanic to look at it?

Thanks


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> Another thing I just noticed too is that it does have the vented plug system on the prop... All three plugs are in the prop and are large hole plugs.  Should I try removing one or more plugs completely to see if that helps with the hole shot or should I just assume that something on the motor is not working properly and wait for my mechanic to look at it?
> 
> Thanks


Are you running the same prop you were running on the 150hp? If not you probably should be, as that 50hp isn't going to make a huge difference.

How was the hole shot with the 150hp was it about the same? 

I watched both videos and as it does have a lag when you nail it, but a to large of a prop on a heavy boat will act just like that. Not saying there isn't a engine problem other than the prop, but if your hole shot is about the same as before than it's probably not. If you went to a different prop than the 150hp had try putting the other prop on it and see what it does. 

Off the top of my head I wold think a 23" prop is to large of a prop for that boat. But its been a long time since I have been on or worked on a Cayman. I just remember them being heavy. 

When you punch it push the choke in real quick once or twice and see if the Rpm's jump up or if it bogs down even more? That will tell you if you have a carb issue.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

I'll try choking it. It's not the same prop... I sold the prop with the motor. It was an offshore 4 blade, I believe is what was one it. I'll have to check with the guys I sold it to and find out the pinch. I don't remember the motor bogging like this one. The hole shot was not the greatest with the 150... But I could at least punch it and it would slowly get on plane. This motor just hits a brick wall at 2,000 rpms if I punch it. My old motor never did that to my recollection. I'm a pretty inexperienced captain, but it just doesn't feel right. My buddy has a 22' proline off shore boat with the same motor and he pops up on plane compared to mine and he's a ton heavier than me!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Your last post really tells me that it is a fuel issue. Engines always run great on the stand with no resistance/load.

Take your mechanic to the lake and he'll get it fixed.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Did not watch the video. If you are propped to run a jack plate up high you can not turn that same prop fast when it is deep in the water.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

Well the good news is since it was just rebuilt it should be under warranty. Have it checked out so you don't do any damage to it. 

GL


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Just watched the video. By the sound and tach it would appear you can not turn that prop deep in the water. Maybe p high on the jack plate it would slip and spin better. You can hear it bogg until prop gets some air in it the rpm's jump. Just my opinion since I have a jackplate and can run wot or take off with plate all the way up. But, I am not getting any kind of hole shot with it down. Honestly I see no reason to run with it down under 4 inches of lift.


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## Batt34786 (Apr 7, 2011)

I had a Scout 192 with a Mariner 150 2 stroke, and had the exact same problem. I spent 2 years and thousands of dollars taking it to the shop - until one mechanic said to try a different prop. I actually went a bit too small at first, but even with that it jumped out of the hole.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

What confuses me about the prop is that when I go on Mercury's prop selector, it is saying go with a 23P in almost all of the different props they have. Also, its what Ranger recommended. Has anyone had experience with them recommending the wrong prop? If I were to go with a different prop, what should I go with? Would it be better to just send off my existing prop and tell them what the motor is doing and have them work the existing prop?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Maybe call power tech and talk to Marcus. They have a program where you can try different props. Its not free but its cheaper than buying experimental props. They might have notes from previous customers with this hull / motor combo.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

Don't do anything before your mechanic checks it out, after he gives you the a okay n the engine then worry about the prop. I know I said it could be your prop, but it could also be other things as well. I was just trying to point out that don't be upset or surprised if your mechanic tells you nothing is wrong with the engine as a to big of a prop will cause your problem but so will other things. 

Also if your mechanic is worth half a ---- he will tell you what you need to do to the prop. If it turns out there is nothing wrong with the engine. 

I have some other questions, who rebuilt the engine? Who installed the engine? Why didn't the mechanic or shop who installed the engine not water test it after install? How do you know the engine was rebuilt? Did you have it checked out before your bought it? How long of a warranty did. It come with?


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

My mechanic rebuilt the motor... I found a motor with a bad cylinder and we went and checked it out together.  Bought the motor and he rebuilt it.  He installed the motor as well. He warranties the motor for 6 months.

Also, he is the one that recommended sending to someone he sends his props to and have it worked.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

Ok, so I met with my mechanic this morning. He took all the carbs off and went through them. Only thing he saw was one of the floats was a little restricted. He took care of that and then put everything back together. Took it out and it was a lot better. No hesitation... RPMs went straight to 3,000 and then shot up from there once on plane. I wouldn't say it threw me back, but it was alot better, no bogging at 2,000 rom. The top speed was still lacking... 52mph at 6,000, but I am guessing that is still the prop. Do you guys think that if I change the plugs on the vents on the propellor that will help with the top end? Right now I have all large hole plugs on it. FYI, I can tell a huge difference between the 150 and 200 in the hole shot, accellaration and some top end, but I would like to see more top end. 

Thanks


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Just out of curiosity where are you running 50mph? Lake Toho?


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

East Lake Toho


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Are you by chance catching the underwater jungle that grows in those two lakes?

Keep in mind that hull is 1,600lbs- bay boat weight


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

In west lake... It's terrible! Great fishing, but you have to keep an eye out. East lake isn't nearly as bad, but the fishing isn't as good either. They have been cleaning out West lake, but it still has hydrilla all over the place.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Lucky guess


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

So I took the boat out on the Banana River yesterday with a couple friends and the bogging is back. So my mechanic is going to try to replace the coils and see if that does anything. He won't charge me for the coils it its unsuccessful. So can I rule out the prop if when he ran it the hole shot was fine? This is driving me crazy! Ready for my boat to run good! Any suggestions? Another note, when he ran the boat, the motor cover was off, don't know if that has any affect.


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## GSSF (May 25, 2013)

OK-  you need to narrow this down.  You are not making power-  period.   Only change one thing at a time. 

Assuming you have good spark, which is the FIRST thing to check IMO, you can move down from there.  Why is the mechanic replacing the coils?  What's the reasoning?  Stabbing at the air is not what a good mechanic does, in my experience.  No tying to be a jerk, but that has me wondering.

For your situation, here is what I would check.

Fuel delivery-  Make sure it is adequate.  Fuel lines, diaphragms in the pump(s) are good, etc.  Fuel lines are good and primer bulb is good.  Check and recheck.  Turn the motor over with the fuel supply line off and it should shoot gas like a garden hose.   

What are your compression numbers per cylinder?  That is number 2 thing, no exceptions. Check and recheck.

Try a different prop.  Make sure your RPM gauge is accurate and mind your engine temp.  

Assuming the boat isn't waterlogged, You should be doing 50mph with that motor at about 5700 rpm with no prob at all.    

If I were you, I'd be beyond frustrated.  And, I'd be shopping a new mechanic after this coil replacement exercise if it does not improve things for you.  Just my .02


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> OK-  you need to narrow this down.  You are not making power-  period.   Only change one thing at a time.
> 
> Assuming you have good spark, which is the FIRST thing to check IMO, you can move down from there.  Why is the mechanic replacing the coils?  What's the reasoning?  Stabbing at the air is not what a good mechanic does, in my experience.  No tying to be a jerk, but that has me wondering.
> 
> ...


Exactly what they do, now a technician on the other hand, troubleshoots, diags, and fixes!


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## GSSF (May 25, 2013)

Sounds good Creekrunner.   Well, here we are approaching page 4 and the guy is still at square one, basically.  I would think anyone with a screwdriver, a compression tester, and a couple hours to play with this could answer all those "unknowns" and make them a "known." It sucks and I feel bad for the guy.

Just trying to help him out.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> Sounds good Creekrunner.   Well, here we are approaching page 4 and the guy is still at square one, basically.  I would think anyone with a screwdriver, a compression tester, and a couple hours to play with this could answer all those "unknowns" and make them a "known."   It sucks and I feel bad for the guy.
> 
> Just trying to help him out.


I was just busting your chops man, I feel for him to. That's why I asked all those questions, before no way when I rebuild a power head I don't take it to the water before I hand it back over to the customer. 

If carbs fixed it the 1st time, might be time to look at your fuel system to make sure your not sending thrash back to the carbs after the rebuild.


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## Parrboy (Nov 18, 2012)

If it ran well with the cover off could be an exhaust leak


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

If you're getting 52mph at 6000 rpm WOT, it appears that the motor is putting out advertised power. If when you and the mechanic ran the boat it got up on plane OK (not great, but OK) that tells me you're on the verge of being too heavy for the prop. When you loaded up with friends (how heavy are they anyway?) you may have pushed the weight up from OK to unacceptable. Try a lower pitched prop before you waste anymore time and money on the motor.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

How old is the fuel? Is it e10? How old are all of the fuel filters and lines? What is the fuel tank made out of? If it ran ok after the carbs were cleaned and it is back to bogging you could have another blockage in the carbs due to one or more issues in the fuel system. 
When the carbs were cleaned what did the mechanic find in them?


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

The fuel is not old at all. I have been putting a decent amount in it since I am breaking in the motor. It is e10 as there is only one station here that has 100% gasoline and their hours are scattered! The filter has 04/2013 on it, so about a year old. I took the hoses off last night and they look good. They don't look brittle or like they are breaking down. When he took the carbs off, they looked good, didn't notice anything other than the one float was a little restricted. I am taking it out AGAIN with him tomorrow or friday.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Just to rule it out...can you pump some fuel from downline of the filter into a clear glass jar?


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## goon squad (Jun 5, 2013)

> If it ran well with the cover off could be an exhaust leak


That's what I am thinking. Try taking the engine cover of again, if it runs good then check for exhaust leak. If you have a leak the engine cover will fill with carbon monoxide and choke out the motor. Just a shot, but better that changing a bunch of parts hoping to find the problem.


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## c0rvtte73 (Apr 15, 2013)

Ok, I know I haven't posted in a while, but it has actually taken me this long to get anywhere.  I had a different mechanic look at it and he found two bad CDMs and the trigger was giving him some funky readings.  The compression read 125 on all cylinders.  We replaced the CDMs and the trigger and took the boat out on Saturday.  It seems to be running better, but still getting the pause at 2,000 RPMs when I punch the throttle.  Its not completely stopping like it was with my buddies on the boat.  I called Powertech today and left a message with one of their techs.  I am looking at going the Prop route as I can't see anything wrong with the motor.  I got it up to 5,800 RPMs at 50 mph with it trimmed pretty low(no roostertail), couldve gotten more RPMs out of it, but didnt want to go past the redline.  Just wanted to let ya'll know where I was at.  Still trying to get it figured out!

Just a side note - When I am going like 30ish mph and punch its sets you back, I can really feel the power of the 200 when I punch it while I am still on plane.


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