# Waterman Performance????



## horseshoe_scott (Mar 30, 2011)

Can anyone who either has one of these or has had one of these give me a rundown of what you think? What does it do well and not do well? Afraid it might be a little wet. Mostly 2 people and sight fishing. Can 3 adults fish this boat? 1 on the pole and 2 anglers.


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

18 or 16?


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

My buddy has a 17.8 Waterman and it's insane. It floats in nothing, poles effortlessly, it feels as if it's gliding, and much dryer than I thought it was based on what people had told me in the past. The wind does tend to try to spin it a bit while poling, but I've noticed all 18' skiffs that I've poled do the same thing in the wind and/or current. It's a hell of a skiff. By far one of the best skiffs I've been on.


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## TC (Feb 15, 2011)

I have an '07 Waterman 18 with a 70 Yami 2 stroke. I'll start by saying my previous boat was an IPB 16 so my opinion of the Waterman is heavily influenced by the comparison of the two (and they're, of course, dramatically different skiffs).

The Waterman gets on plane quickly, runs skinny, poles great and is quiet. I find it to be very stable and dry. And I can run through chop without getting beat up. It's amazingly solid. There's plenty of storage and the hatches stay dry. 

I've only fished two guys on mine so I can't be certain what the experience would be like with three. But the front deck is certainly big enough for two anglers. 

My buddy Flatsdreamer has a Beavertail Vengeance (great boat that I've fished on several times); I feel the Waterman 18 and the Vengeance are very comparable. Another buddy, Snookdaddy, has a Waterman 16; he can provide perspective on the performance of the 16. 

I fish mostly in Tampa Bay and Sarasota Bay and occasionally in Matlacha. For the way I fish, mostly hunting Reds, I find the Waterman to be a great skiff. I'm very happy.


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## horseshoe_scott (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks, I'm definitely interested in the 18 not the 16. I need the room. I know it is a skinny water skiff not a 18 Redfisher, but if you have to run 5 miles in the chop can this boat do it well. Also looking at the Vengeance, which I like. Even the HPX 17 micro has caught my eye, but seems like it might not be quite enough skiff for myself, plus I want a trolling motor.


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

What exactly do you mean by chop? Everyone sees if differently...

A Wateman, Whipray, 17.8 Pro or 18' Waterman is not going to be the best ride in snotty conditions, because all of them are fairly flat in the deadrise dept.. Sort of like a Jon Boat.. Sure, they have integrated spray rails that help keep the salt spray at bay, but even with the tabs and nose down, they are going to be "jackhammers" at 30mph compared to anything with a "V" deadrise... SuperSkiffs and HPX-V's are much better suited to handling "chop" than any Waterman would ever dream of...

I have a Waterman 16' and I travel down the beach, fly fishing for tarpon when the weather permits.. If it's 10+mph winds, I have to take it easy and pick my way to my spots.. I could fly to my spots if I was in a Dolphin, Maverick, HB Biscayne or Marquesa that had some "V" to soak up some of the waves...

If anyone tells you a flat bottom boat rides better than a comparable V bottom boat, they're lying... Simple as that..

The flat bottom boats shine in shallow, skinny water..


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## daleensb (Nov 23, 2012)

Snookdaddy said it perfect.The 16 and 18 HBs are at the top of their game for what they are.No poling skiif is going to be a fun ride in any sort of real chop no matter what anyone says.Don't believe them.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

People need to understand that one's opinion of dry varies from the next person. I only fish flat bottom super shallow poling skiffs, so I base an opinion on other comparable skiffs. I have fished other skiffs stated that are better suited for running a chop, and those don't compare when it comes to poling and draft. I consider a waterman 18 to be a dry skiff. By dry, I don't mean completely 100% dry that one would not get a single drop of water on them. I mean relatively dry for what the skiff is designed to do.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Theres a reason they only last a few days if/when they come up for sale. Food for thought..


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

> People need to understand that one's opinion of dry varies from the next person. I only fish flat bottom super shallow poling skiffs, so I base an opinion on other comparable skiffs. I have fished other skiffs stated that are better suited for running a chop, and those don't compare when it comes to poling and draft. I consider a waterman 18 to be a dry skiff. By dry, I don't mean completely 100% dry that one would not get a single drop of water on them. I mean relatively dry for what the skiff is designed to do.


Agree 100% here... They're very dry for a ultra shallow skiff... And as someone else noted... They do not stay on the market very long if they're in good shape..

It's hard to believe that a skiff will bring more money now than it would 2-3 years ago...

Maybe the re-introduction of the Whipray Classic at 40K per copy has something to do with this phenomenom... I don't know...


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## horseshoe_scott (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks to all. In reference to the ride in chop. I just meant versus other shallow water skiffs. I don't plan on using it on days above 10 knots. I have a 24 bay boat for that. I just know some skiffs you need to wear rain gear when its only blowing 5 knots in the wrong direction because of all the spray and I don't want to deal with any of that. I will try to jump on the right one if I can find one available.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

You should be fine if it's blowing 15 knots, too. As long as you know how to run the skiff, it should be dry. Well, at least in my neck of the woods, a 15 knot wind, the bay doesn't get kicked up too badly, unless it's blowing from the west.


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## Sheremeta (Nov 29, 2010)

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/3623681965.html


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## ranno (Apr 7, 2012)

I have a Custom 02 Waterman, with a 60 merc.Mine is a little different because of the tunnel hull.I am basing my testimony upon 10 years of fishing on this boat.

As a technical skiff,comparable to others, it is a very dry boat in a reasonable chop and treks in a straight line when I pole.You will access areas other boats only dream about getting into.The dry lockers are just that..... Dry! The craftsmanship is exceptional!

Yes it fishes 3 comfortably as long as 2 guys don't join me on the back end of the skiff.Taken 5 total out for joy riding and still gets up on a plane with little effort.It is perfect for the Keys to Flamingo trips and anywhere in Boca Grande (( excluding the B.G. pass when the wind blows )).

I dont view a boat as an investment but am pleased /shocked at how much the boat has retained value.

Just my 2 cents.


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## ranno (Apr 7, 2012)

One last thing , stick with the 18'


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## Barbs_deep (Jul 4, 2010)

Don't beat me up too hard for what I'm about to say.... Lol

I have a beavertail B1 which is a direct splash of the older waterman hull (earlier 2000s) and I love it. It poles super shallow/easy and eats up chop pretty good. It will fish 3, but fishes 2 people much better. 

That being said, I put a TON of hours on my buddy's 07 waterman and it was like a completely different boat. It handled chop a lot better and it seemed to be a tad bit less tippy. However, it did draft about an inch or so more and took just a little bit more effort on the pole compared to my BT. 

Comparing the 2 boats is like comparing a Ferrari to a Toyota though. The Gordon (HB) is a much nicer boat and offered a better ride. We got trapped in some nasty stoms and had to ride in about 1.5-3 ft rollers in his waterman and it handled it really well. 

Hope this helps


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## cosgrcs (Mar 11, 2012)

I went down to islamarida to check out that 16' CC whip last weekend. It's a nice boat boat it has some issues. I decided to pass on it. The hull has been modified to make it run a little better but it was still really wet and you could not get the bown down no matter how much tab you put into it with 2 people behind the console.


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## horseshoe_scott (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for that, I've been looking at that same boat. The only reason I didn't go down and check it out was because it wasn't an 18 footer. That new 2014 Hpx 17 Version 2 has me really intrigued :-/


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## Chasintail22 (Jun 22, 2009)

> Thanks for that, I've been looking at that same boat. The only reason I didn't go down and check it out was because it wasn't an 18 footer.  That new 2014 Hpx 17 Version 2 has me really intrigued :-/


Yep definitely stick with the 18 footer, especially if you plan on fishing 3 out of it. I've fished 3 out of an older Whipray with no problem, but the deck space on a Waterman or Pro is definitely worth having and makes things much more comfortable. Plus the extra 1.5 feet of length will help when it comes to running in some chop. Also, the 18 Waterman has the sponsons on the rear which will keep the boat a bit more stable and will help it plane quicker. 

That MAV 17 is going to be a completely different boat from the Waterman since you're comparing flat bottom to V now. It definitely isn't going to get nearly as shallow. I've personally run the Waterman plenty in some nasty stuff and it truly does incredibly well, considering the type of boat it is. Go check one out in person and you'll see firsthand how you enjoy it. These forums can be helpful but at the same time bias from individuals can throw your head into a whirlwind. 

Be smart with your decision and I'm sure you'll get a skiff that you love. Resale value is a huge factor to look at and I'm sure everyone here will vouch for how the HB holds up over time. Good luck and keep the questions coming.


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

My bud had a Waterman I fished with on the Goon. It was a no liner model. The thing was stupid skinny and rode well for a flat bottom skiff. It was also very dry. Like SnookDaddy said NO flat bottom skiff is gonna be a Cadilac in a heavy chop. The only complaint was it can be a bit tippy. Yeah I said it  When you get out on the edges. And he did have to have to repaint the interior. I think on the no liners they hand rolled/brushed the paint on the interior. Lke inside the hatches. All the sprayed gelcoat wasn't a issue. I have a 07 Lostmen that is similiar in application and performance. It is stable as a barge. Just opt for the spray rails. With out em they can be a bit wet in the right conditions. They are in some ways built better than HB. Which is saying a lot.  You cant go wrong with either one. If you really need to get skinny often.


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## DrG (Apr 19, 2012)

I currently have a fleet of skiffs:
2010 Ankona Native Tohatsu 30 tiller
2007 Gordon Waterman 18 Yamaha F70 side console
2000 Whipray Classic Tohatsu 50 tiller
2001 Egret 16 Yamaha 115 CC

Far and away the best riding boat in my flotilla is the Egret 16 with a "deep V". It's got an issue floating skinny enough for what I like to do from Chocko to Flamingo at low tides. The issue goes away with the other flat bottom skiffs. Here is a summary comparison (penned by my buddy) of the Whipray, Waterman and my fishing buddy's 2007 Lostmen Honda 50 side console:

Summary: If I always had a 2nd person primarily poling/shallow water sight fishing, I would have a Whipray. However, I'm often solo when running the Lostmen and it poles perfect w/ me on the platform because its bow heavy (stern light...?) For fishing the 10k Islands, especially for camping trips, the Waterman is unquestionable the right boat for 2 or more, lots of gear and dealing with crossing open waters, and fish any style be it shallow or not.

Waterman18, Lostmen18 and Whipray Classic 16 comparison

Fit & Finish: Hell's Bay
note - all are better than nearly all other skiffs (including Maverick and excluding Islamorada and Egret) and each have their unique sweet spots: the Waterman & Whipray has better hatch lids (ie. deeper lips on the hatch lids and deep gutters that are plumbed) and they have more attn-to-detail overall, especially w/ electrical riggng. The Waterman & Whipray have nice, large compartment layout w/easy & useful access to the open bilge area. The Lostmen has more & better under gunnel rod storage, and a built-in, insulated 80 qt cooler.

Draft: Whipray
note - the Whipray floats shallowest, however all 3 float skinny! The Lostmen gets a 2nd place vote for draft.

Storage: Even
note - The Waterman has huge Aft compartments which are the ones I use most often and the Lostmen & Whipray have larger forward hatch compartments and both have built-in coolers. All have more storage and better hatch layouts than most other skiffs.

Cockpit Floor Space: Lostmen
note - Because of the unique Waterman hull design, the forward 1/2 of the interior floor is curved upwards on the sides making it tougher to walk/stand closest to the side/gunnels. Conversely, due to the Lostmen hull design, it's flat to the far sides of the hull and curves upward underneath the gunnels.

Dry Ride/Performance: Waterman & Whipray
note - There is no question the Waterman & Whipray is a dryer and smoother ride in chop/slop, and that's inherent in their hull design just as the Lostmen is much more stable because of its hull design. Since the Waterman & Whipray float shallow, pole awesome and have lots of great characteristics w/ unique hull design (ie. running strakes, built- in spray rails, etc.), the comfy ride alone is an extremely compelling advantage in favor of the Waterman & Whipray. All are more solid & better built compared to original Beavertail, Mitzi, Ranger Ghost, Maverick HPX-T, Dolphin, and other skiffs.

Poling: Even
note - I thought the Lostmen was the best shallow water poling skiff and now that I've poled the Waterman & Whipray in both calm and windy conditions, they have a slight edge over the Lostmen specifcally with tracking, spinning, ease to pole and ZERO noise! All pole awesome.

Stability: Lostmen
note - The upside of having more of a flat bottom hull w/ more displacement and larger sponsons is stability which the Lostmen offers. The downside is a rougher, wet ride is slop/chop.

Performance: Waterman & Whipray
note - obviously the Waterman w/ 70 ponies wins, and the smaller Whipray hull w/ 50 two-stroker in second. The Lostmen at 18'1" w/ 50hp carb'ed Honda four-stroke tops out at 32/33 mph and has a sweet spot of 24-26MPH yielding ~ 10 MPG. The Whipray has surprisingly great fuel economy at ~ 9.5 MPG and runs perfect at 27-29 MPH.

Overall: Waterman & Whipray depending on whether you want a 16' class or 18' class skiff.
note - Each skiff has it's unique features and are top-notch construction and fit/finsh, above above other shallow water skiffs (excluding only Egret and Chittum IMHO). The basis for the slight edge is from 2 important factors in a shallow water poling skiff; dry ride and ease of poling in wind & calm conditions.


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## vmgator (Jul 5, 2012)

Awesome post. Thanks.


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## horseshoe_scott (Mar 30, 2011)

Yes, great post. Thanks for putting so much effort in to it. I have to run really skinny because of so many oyster bars in my area and I am now seriously considering the new version of the Maverick 17 HPX-T. I know it won't do all things great, but running skinny is important when the bottom is really hard and not very forgiving. Plus it is damn near impossible to find a used 18 Waterman and I don't think I can afford a new one.


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## KeepingItSimple (Mar 20, 2011)

Crushed, you didn't mention the Native SUV in your comparison. Assume it's last in all categories? Why is it in your lineup?

Alex V


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## DrG (Apr 19, 2012)

My whirlwind into the fleet position went just like this: In Dec 2011, I was following my buddy at mid tide into the mouth of the Chatham, I ended up pushing my Egret across a mud flat whole he literally was doing circles around me in his Lostmen. It was time for a skinny skiff. I was unable to find the Waterman I wanted. Mitch Howell had built the Ankona Native into a piece of art and it was for sale. It's a great day boat but lacks the space for 2 camper/ fisherman and the necessary gear. I like multi-day backcountry Glades trips. Alas, the Ankona only comes out when I camp at Chocko or Flamingo. For the record, the Ankona runs a little wetter then the Whip or Waterman in the rough and is not as good for poling as it lacks the poling strakes in the hull bottom. Just my 2 cents -- but I love it the same. Then I found a Waterman. And Mitch built another beauty -- the Whipray Classic, and he put it up for sale as well. That's how the fleet came to be. Now I just need time to run all of them as they deserve.


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## Bill_Nosan (Dec 14, 2008)

The waterman will definitely be skinnier than the vengeance, if that's still on your list. I assume the vengeance will have a somewhat better ride in a chop because of it's deadrise. To me, it would be a no-brainer to choose the waterman if you intend on poling the skiff.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> Crushed, you didn't mention the Native SUV in your comparison.  Assume it's last in all categories?  Why is it in your lineup?
> 
> Alex V


He mentioned he has a Native, not the SUV. The SUV does have poling strakes. And is redesigned bottom compared to the regular Native that Ankona doesn't even build anymore.


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## Chasintail22 (Jun 22, 2009)

> Yes, great post.  Thanks for putting so much effort in to it. I have to run really skinny because of so many oyster bars in my area and I am now seriously considering the new version of the Maverick 17 HPX-T.  I know it won't do all things great, but running skinny is important when the bottom is really hard and not very forgiving.  Plus it is damn near impossible to find a used 18 Waterman and I don't think I can afford a new one.


A tunnel will get you running very skinny but prepare to be beat up in any chop. It's a very noticeable difference. If you're really worried about that, just put a jack plate on a Waterman and you'll be running skinnier than you can imagine. A tunnel will run shallow but when you come off plane and settle you'll lose about an inch of draft, and I doubt you want to do that. As far as money goes, if you can afford a new Mav 17T then you're not going to be far off from a new Waterman by any means. If you are patient you'll find a used one, and will definitely be glad you waited. Most importantly, run every boat you're considering and get you're own personal perspective on everything. We can only tell you our personal opinions and experiences, but at the end of the day it's YOUR boat


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