# gheenoe or gladesmen



## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

ok..real world..gheenoe or a gladesmen for poling, trolling motoring (occasionally), fishing predominantly less than 3 feet of water...negotiating(running) tight,  twisty turns in ditches 10 - 20 feet wide on plane...2 stroke 25 mercury, tiller setup...i have never been in either...the gladesmen really appeals to me...

i currently have a 16 foot tunnel hull jonboat(25 merc)..jackplate, trim tabs...does what i need it to do, goes where i need it to go..very stable at rest, fairly fast(33 mph w/ 2 guys)...doesnt pole well, and noisy...i also have a home-brew fiberglass pirogue/skiff(square-back, pointy front)...16 1/2 feet long, 30 inch bottom...ancient but good running 7.5 merc...poles fairly well, fairly quiet...very tippy, very slow(10-15 mph depending on load)...

i have a 8 mile run to make to get to my fishing area from the launch, 10 miles to get back to the launch at the end of the trip...so 30ish mph works great, the 10 - 15mph sucks...no real big water to cross other than a few occasional boat wakes in the bayou leading to fishing area from launch and maybe a 1 foot chop if the wind picks up on the one lake to cross (about 1/2 mile or mile across)

any insight??         im in south louisiana, so, test rides are pretty much non-issue....

the other option im looking at is building something from scratch in the form of gladesmen type hull...18ish or 19ish feet long, 36 inch bottom, 48ish inch beam, low sides, lightweight...plywood, epoxy resin, fiberglass construction...i have been studyng bateau.com for a few years...i have plans for their fs 18...im familiar with the building techniques(a family friend builds bayboats and bassboats, i used to work for free during my off time to learn some stuff)...i really dont have a place right now to build, thats the reason i never built the fs 18...i was one of the first few to buy the plans when they became available...

sidenote...if i build something from scratch that has the same program of use as a gladesmen and happens to look a little similar, even though ive never seen one in person...would i be copying??  if for a one-off for my own use, i guess id be safe...but if the hull worked and i decided to pop a mold and make a few to sell, would i still be safe?? im just curious where the lines are with the comments on "this brand splashed that brand" that i see over and over...definately would not be trying to hurt anybodys business, just would be trying to make a good skiff available over this way...


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2008)

[smiley=eek.gif] [smiley=eek.gif] Here we go. 

I'm going to sit this one out for a while. [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]

[smiley=popcorn2.gif] [smiley=drinking.gif] [smiley=popcorn2.gif] [smiley=drinking.gif] [smiley=popcorn2.gif] [smiley=drinking.gif]


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

man, i was not  trying to start anything...honest...i love this site...been checking it out since it started...i really am just looking for some input....i understand the whole "tippy" thing....honestly its not a real problem for me...we fish from a super narrow square back pirogue alot...it appears that a gheenoe might be a more stable fishing platform, maybe even a more stable running platform too...but i dont know...thats why im posting...i know there are several people here that have been in both...

if i could trek over to florida to try to test ride, i definately would try to do that...thats just really not possible for me...im a single parent, son plays travel ice hockey in the winter with camps in summer, baseball in summer, daughter dances and cheerleads...so...i have a pretty full schedule..

if it will be too much controversy, ill delete my post...i dont mind...or if the part about building my own boat is a problem i can edit that out....its really just a rambling thought...am  curious for input on the copying or not copying, though...again ive never seen either in person(well i have seen a gheenoe 13 and a 15'4", never a classic)...i used to build aluminum boats, deer stands, bbq pits, and whatever else on the side...so i guess its just the hustling side of my brain...


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## Lil_Tate (Dec 18, 2006)

lt 25 
end of story


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2008)

No, no, don't take it wrong. Just goes back to the roots of the whole "microskiff" thing and a funny thread that once ran it's course.

Let a few chime in and we'll make sure it stays on track.


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## costefishnt (Dec 11, 2006)

I dont care who i tee off here, but for what you are wanting the Gheenoe LT25 nails it. The gladesman is far "tippier" at rest. The LT25 will easily run 30+ with a 25h 2 stroke and poles easily. depending on teh distribution of weight you may get some slap under teh front of boat but nothing like the john. The gladesman poles nicely as well and i cant answer the slap issue but the tippy feel is definately there. 

now, as i said i dont really care who gets angry. but if you want a non biased opinion between teh two it would be best if you could take a test on both yourself. i aint gonna lie, i bleed gheenoe. I am sure you will get some differing opinions from those who run ECC products, as well as some other gheenoe guys. 

good luck on your search!


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2008)

Let's simplify. Gladesmen is a canoe - LT25 is a Bhote. 

Gladesmen is rated for a 15 (in most cases but 20 max) LT25 is rated for a 25. Speed requirement alone dictates your choice if you want to keep her legal.

The other bhote to consider would be a Gladesambuterrado  but it's not as nimble as the LT


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

I happen to own a hi-sider with a model airplane engine on the back, modified for marine purposes, but I wouldn't necessarily say I had a dog in the fight here. :-/

What I will say though is I've been around all kinds of boats since early childhood (late 60's), owned a bunch myself, worked for a major boat company, did some guiding in S Florida for a bit and I can't remember ever being more impressed with a particular boat like I have recently in the LT25. 

Honestly, I am not a Gheenoe guy by any stretch, Capt Ron can tell you that. I bought a small trailer for another boat of mine and the trailer happened to have a hi-sider strapped to it. Thats really the only reason I own one. It just so happens I've come to appreciate what a marvelous little rig that hi-sider is though, in its proper element of course. I've spent some time fishing on one of the members' Gladesman too. Neat rig for sure, but no where near as stable as an LT25 or as versatile. Probably poles a bit skinner and maybe a hair easier than an LT25. But you really need to be in sync with your passengers movements or have very good balance on a Gladesman. 

If you haven't already, check out the Watson's and father daughter expeditions on the gheenoe site and look at some of the cargo on the LT25's. Impressive doesn't begin to describe these things, even when ridiculously over loaded. Tom in Orl can correct me but I believe he was clocking 22-23mph with all his gear, me(190lbs), all my gear and my 11yr old son (60lbs) on the way out of camp Watson's.

Like Curtiss said, you really need to try them both and decide for yourself, but based on your usage description and what I know about those two boats, the LT25 is a no brainer. - eric


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

...2 stroke 25 mercury, tiller setup...i have never been in either...

the LT-25 is made for that motor it is what most have. 
the gladesmen is rated for 15 maybe a 20 max


if $$$ makes any diff the LT hull starts apox 2400.00


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

Sounds like you need an HB Glades Skiff or Gordon Ambush.  [smiley=StirPotChef.gif]


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

hmm...i have been looking at the ambush..again, not in person...but that thing looks pretty sweet...the more i look at it, it appears very simple to build...but, hey, thats a different subject i suppose...i definately dont think i can afford to buy one...i think a used gladesmen (which seem to pop up fairly often) is well within my budget...the gheenoes are there also...

i have seen the hb glades skiff in person..thats what got me so excited about the bateau fs 18...

the lowtide25 sounds very interesting...interior looks cool...im not digging that pointed nose sticking up(reminds me of an elf's boot, lol....)...but, if the boat works, thats what counts...i wonder how easy or difficult it would be to trim that down and put the nose cap back on...hmm....but it might be crazy to break out the metabo saw to a brand new boat, huh??


i will try to plan a trip sometime in the next month or 2 to bring the kiddos to the beach(we usually go  to gulf shores or destin once a year or so, but i could go a lil further), and maybe i can arrange ahead of time with a few people willing to help out with some test rides....

thanks for all the replys so far...


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## Spooky (Jan 22, 2008)

If you dont like the nose It would be no problem to have a nose job done when you order. They dont call it custom gheenoe for nothing. As a matter of fact think I've seeen a LT 25 with a trimed nose. I'll dig around and see if I can find it. 


Edit here ya go:


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## newsmyrnaslayer (Jan 27, 2008)

I have a Gheenoe and all I can say is I drove past Gordon's warehouse today and they had an Ambush all glossed up on a trailer sitting by the road, I didn't realize it but I almost came to a dead stop in the middle of the road staring at it.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

LT25 Review


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## thresher (Dec 18, 2006)

Newsmyrnaslayer: I laughed out loud when I read that! When the C5 corvette came out in 97 - it was parked at the dealership on the corner of 5th and Lamar in Austin. I was turning the corner and nearly ran into the curb. It was red. So beautiful.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2008)

> LT25 Review



and after next week you can write a Gladesambuterrado review.


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## Apollobeachsam (Dec 14, 2006)

I've owned a gheeenoe classic, fished from an LT for 8 hours and own a Gladesmen. I enjoy both.. both has there strong points and week points. 

If tippy is your primary concern and you plan on taking non fishing guest,(kids, women, older people) go with the LT25. Super Table, nice ride.

The Gladesmen is made to float as skinny as possible(does not run that skinny)... poles like nothing else, paddle if you need to(NMZ)... lightest possible...sacrificing stability, and weight.




note: Eventhough I have a 25 on mine, legally you can only run a 15 on your Gladesmen. You won't get 30mph w/ the 15 hp. Between the 2 boat based on your speed requirement the Gheenoe might be your choice.


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## oldschool (Feb 22, 2008)

Gladesman is a very tippy boat. Way too tippy for the $$$$$. Go with the gheenoe. At least if you fall in, it didn't cost you $12,000 dollars. The gladesman is prettier and hull slap and blah blah. For 13 k you shouldn't be worrying about falling in the water as you step down from the platform. IMHO. I am surprised people still buy them. The custom gheenoes have more of a "boat" feel anyway for less money.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

thanks for the info...im real curious about the lowtide 25, now...


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

> thanks for the info...im real curious about the lowtide 25, now...


there are a lot of us that will take you out for the day. Even a few Pro's that do it for a living.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

i was kind of hoping for that...im a little bit away from that, though...

another question...which is heavier, rigged out for fishing, motor(2 st 25 merc), trolling motor, 1 battery, 6 gallons gas, medium tackle bag, 4 poles, few other misc items....gladesmen or lt 25??

i ask because...2 to 3 times a year we do an "adventure trip"...we use a "mother ship" to haul  smaller boats(necesary to fish the destination area, but cant make the trip from nearest launch) on a nasty river run out the mouth of one of the main rivers in south louisiana to camp(for 2-3 days) and fish in some very remote marsh( accessible by skinny water boats only)...the mother ship is a very nice homebuilt houseboat(fully self-contained for a week at a time) with a 6 foot wide  deck down one side...2 boats fit nicely, end to end, but need to be raised out of the water onto the deck(like a yacht tender) with a davit crane, of course, but one at a time, and one has to be manhandled to the end of the deck to make room for the next, the davit crane only reaches so far, and is only good for lifting about 500-600 pounds, it is home built also...


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2008)

My guess is the Gladesmen would be a little lighter but both are less than 500 lbs unloaded. Remember the Gladesmen is 18' so your boat would need to be near 36' to put them on deck end to end. The LT is 16'.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Two 13 foot Gheenoes would be great tenders for that house boat.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

deck of the houeboat is 50 feet...so thats not an issue...the 18 feet length of the gladesmen is what i like...i prefer the longer boat...but the "tippy factor" yall keep bringing up really has me concerned...in my internet searching, i have found some pics that really show just how  narrow it is...so, im scratching my head...

i really am thinking about making do with what ive got, and building my own...i can sell my tunnel boat in 5 minutes...(literally)  that will more than pay for material to build a skiff of my own design...i have built boats before, just aluminum..but i have glass and epoxy experience...built my pirogue/skiff myself...that was just a learning experiment...thats what led me to where im at..i need bigger, wider, faster...my worst obstacle will be time...lol

my tunnel boat will get me through the summer...it wont go on the houseboat, tho...we will use the little skiff...we have 2 that are pretty much the same...5 people will be making the trip downriver, one is a kid, so....


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## flyfshrmn82 (Oct 12, 2007)

> Sounds like you need an HB Glades Skiff or Gordon Ambush.  [smiley=StirPotChef.gif]


Here is a great idea.  Pay lots of money for a very tippy boat.  Kind of like dropping 50,000 on a Kia.

Gladesman is a specialized poling skiff that will go super skinny.  It is light,quite, narrow, and nimble.  You will find that finding the right boat is about give and take.  You need to make a lists of the top priorities on what you want to do on a boat-Who will be on the boat-The minimum water depth you are fishing-Price...stuff like that.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2008)

> > Sounds like you need an HB Glades Skiff or Gordon Ambush. [smiley=StirPotChef.gif]
> 
> 
> Here is a great idea. Pay lots of money for a very tippy boat. Kind of like dropping 50,000 on a Kia.


Need to recheck the facts. I only paid a little more for my Glades Skiff I did for my Gladesmen. Yes, the Glades Skiff was used and Gladesmen was new.

Using your car analogy, I would rather have a used Mercedes than a new Ford. 

This statement tells me you have not been on an Ambush or Glades Skiff.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

:-? yeah....maybe it time to let this rest for a while, if it was a vote gheenoe won by a landslide...lol...i think i have a game plan...thanks for all the help....i really appreciate it...

i got some good info, id have to ride in each to make my own decision...thats just not possible at the moment...:-/ :-/

thanks again...  :-?


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## costefishnt (Dec 11, 2006)

anytime you decide to come this way, let me know. will set you up with a LT demo.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> Gladesman is a specialized poling skiff that will go super skinny. It is light,quite, narrow, and nimble. You will find that finding the right boat is about give and take. You need to make a lists of the top priorities on what you want to do on a boat-Who will be on the boat-The minimum water depth you are fishing-Price...stuff like that.


Good advice. Only other thing I would add is that if you have room for two boats on the mothership get one of each ;D


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## beavis (Dec 11, 2006)

Get the LT,

it will be cheaper

it will save you money and give you all your time back this summer so you don't have to build a boat


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

> > Sounds like you need an HB Glades Skiff or Gordon Ambush.  [smiley=StirPotChef.gif]
> 
> 
> Here is a great idea.  Pay lots of money for a very tippy boat.  Kind of like dropping 50,000 on a Kia.


Here's a better idea...actually ride on a new Ambush, pole one around all day, and then make statements like that. The Ambush is NOT tippy. If you have done all of this and still think it is tippy you might want to buy a Pathfinder bay boat. 

For the areas this guy wants to fish and run, the Ambush or GS is a better microskiff choice in my opinion than the other microskiffs mentioned. I do understand it is more expensive but sometimes you get what you pay for.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2008)

> > > Sounds like you need an HB Glades Skiff or Gordon Ambush. [smiley=StirPotChef.gif]
> >
> >
> > Here is a great idea. Pay lots of money for a very tippy boat. Kind of like dropping 50,000 on a Kia.
> ...



Now I know why you chose your profession. : Cause you would suck at marketing.  You mean to tell me you want someone to actually use the boat before they form an opinion and post? : 

I knew I liked you. [smiley=1-beer.gif] [smiley=1-beer.gif]

You can say anything you want. just be prepared to back it up.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

for the houseboat trip...the 2 spots on deck arent both for me..i have only one spot...the other spot is for the owner of the houseboat(close friend)...he has a custom aluminum tunnel boat also...well...actually, everyone i know has aluminum...by far the build material of choice in louisiana...relatively easy to work with, aluminum fab shop always within a 15 min drive, no matter where you live in la(lol)...tough as nails against the many oyster beds, and concrete wiers to occasionally jumpover...(of course, thats one detail i forgot to mention...dont think ill be doing that with any glass boat...i do have an idea planned to handle that problem, though..)

im trying to be a trendsetter, i guess you could say, with something different....again, i think i have a gameplan...

oh , and again...the houseboat thing..thats only 2 or 3 times a year....the boat im looking for is to be used year round( i only fish marsh...dad has a bigger boat if ever needed, it just sits in the yard...)...ill be selling my tunnel boat...its practically sold already...lol...


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Marshman,

Sorry for the delayed response. I just found this thread. Where y'at in LA? From the sounds of it, you are visiting the mouth of the Atchafalaya or the mouth of the Mississippi a few time a year. I am from BR and I've hunted both... great fun! I am over at FT Polk now.

First post and I am gonna jump in the middle of the great "meaning of life" debate... and the answer is... "It depends!" 

I have used Gheenoes in the marsh in Louisiana. Bottom line up front, Gheenoes are miserable in mud. This is because the stern will resist sliding laterally when in mud (this same feature that makes them track straight when they actually float). I've seen a lot of busted pushpoles result from combining low tide and Gheenoes. I find the capability to get out of the marsh once the tide falls out to be a very useful feature in the LA marsh. Your old pirogue-creation will push across a heavy dew, I imagine. A Gheenoe will handle very differently. It isn't a terrible choice, especially considering the price, but go in with honest expectations based on your environment. If you keep water under the keel, they are nice little boats. 

I know nothing about any of the other boats mentioned. The other guys have valid points regarding cost, speed and legal horsepower. However, as far as stability is concerned, anything is going to feel rock solid after that pirogue-inspired boat you describe. Yeah, a Gheenoe is pretty stable, probably more so than a Gladesman, but you are currently used to balancing on the boating equivalent of a tight rope. If you really like the other options, don't let stability rule your world.

BTW, GoDevils and Gheenoes are a bad mix, once again due to lack of lateral slide. I hadn't heard you mention it, but I like to head off disasters.

I also am blatantly biased toward building your own FS18 `cuz I think it is the perfect boat for the marsh down here and it looks like a fun project. With the motor you describe, it should give you the performance you desire... but you've got to build it first.

Nathan


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

> Marshman,
> 
> Sorry for the delayed response. I just found this thread. Where y'at in LA? From the sounds of it, you are visiting the mouth of the Atchafalaya or the mouth of the Mississippi a few time a year. I am from BR and I've hunted both... great fun! I am over at FT Polk now.
> 
> ...



Thanks WD and welcome aboard [smiley=1-beer.gif] [smiley=1-beer.gif]

Based on your post with first hand knowledge, I would have to agree with you on the FS18. Don't they have a precut kit now? That would definitely expedite the process for someone like me as a first time builder.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

just coming back to this post...not to bring the issue back up...but just to reply to wd...i guess i overlooked that reply  in the shuffle... but definately thanks to all the response

i get the fact about gheenoe in the mud..ive never been in a gheenoe, but i can tell from the way the bottom of the hull looks, i know what you mean...thats the reason our boats around here usually are built with a "slanted chine" or a rounded chine in the rear... 

as far as this post goes...my original question gheenoe or gladesmen...well...i decided to do something different...going out on a limb and gonna build my own boat...(i have built boats before, 3 out of aluminum, one out of ply and epoxy/glass, just had a different purpose in mind )i have plans for the fs18, i was one of the first few to get the plans...it just doesnt strike me....i want to build, just dont like that design...in the anticipation of the release of those plans , i think i was hoping for more gladesmen-like appearance...after seeing and building a 1/4 scale model out of doorskins, i just didnt like the looks of it...now after seeing the few that are nearing completion, im very pleased that i decided to wait... 

i am in the planning stages still on my build...it will be of interest to others, im sure...but im a little ways off still...ill share some details when i get closer...it may turn out ot be a business venture for myself and a partner, it may not...mainly i just want a boat that will fit my very specific needs, and look really bad-azzed !!!!!..... 

oops...hope i can say that...lol


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

oh and btw...wd...i am from br myself...i live over near hammond...yes i am speaking of the atchafalaya river delta...we head down there from belle river couple times a year ...we anchor our houseboat in the delta for a camp and base station and hop over into either the pointe au fer area or "other adjacent secret spots"...(wink, wink)...


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## Cracka (Jul 1, 2007)

G'day Marshman,  have you seen the Jem Watercraft site.  If not have a look at a Gheenoe like boat that Chalk is building on there, here is the link.http://www.jemwatercraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75.  Looks very cool, it might be what you're after.

Mick.


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## Guest (May 22, 2008)

> G'day Marshman, have you seen the Jem Watercraft site. If not have a look at a Gheenoe like boat that Chalk is building on there, here is the link.http://www.jemwatercraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75. Looks very cool, it might be what you're after.
> 
> Mick.



Thanks for posting. I had forgotten about that site. 

Here is a picture of my next project.










Picked her up last night. "Some assembly required" ;D ;D ;D


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

What the heck is that?


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

looks like an xf 20 to me..cant you tell??


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## Guest (May 22, 2008)

> looks like an xf 20 to me..cant you tell??



You sir, are a talented man. 

Hope your build has a little more shape. ;D ;D ;D


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## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

> Picked her up last night. "Some assembly required" ;D ;D ;D




I'm calling my bookie. Over/Under on how long that will sit in your shop "unassembled" will be set at 14 months. [smiley=alcholic.gif]


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

I will take the over ;D


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

i have plans for the xf20 too...thats what i wanted first...i had fallen in love with the henderson skiffs....basically the same thing...but then my fishing area changed, thus my needs changed....leading to my current boat and the quest for something even better....then the fs 18 came along...already commented on that...lol....im on the right track....made some progress today...got it on paper now...gotta figure out to go from a drawing on paper now...lol...

my problem where i fish besides negotiationg skinny water, is some pilings at a wier you have to go through to get there...a lil less than 6 feet apart(more like 5 feet)...my boats gunnel rails are shredded to hell and back from squeezing thru and my boat is 64 inches at the widest point...nightmare when the tide is pouring through( water will have a 1 foot drop sometimes..coming over the wier) while attempting to "shoot the gap" as i call it.....





on a sidenote.....i was thinking [smiley=1-mmm.gif]....you know, if ecc and gheenoe were to collaborate on a design....would they call it a gheenoesmen??      [smiley=1-whoops1.gif]             just playin around....silly, i know...


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## Guest (May 22, 2008)

> .....i had fallen in love with the henderson skiffs....basically the same thing.....


Bhilly bhotes are well know just North of here. Two sitting at the local bait shop near sea-n-spots house.

Fell in love the first time I saw one but IMHO, these are better constructed. 

FYI - Bhilly Boats are now molded I hear.  Kinda makes ya wanna go    when you bounce off the rocks now doesn't it? ;D ;D ;D


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## Guest (May 22, 2008)

> > Picked her up last night. "Some assembly required" ;D ;D ;D
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not even close. [smiley=lalalala.gif] [smiley=lalalala.gif]

Bet I'll have a Whipray b4 she's done. ;D ;D ;D


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

thats been my concern with getting away from aluminum....we drag bottom lots around here...not rocks, but oyster shells, and crossing wiers( some are concrete, some are wood..)but for the weight i can save with a composite boat vesus aluminum , im thinking of some "sacrificial" skids on the bottom of the boat..not glassed on, just screwed on...i can get white teflon sheets fairly easily, thinking about strips of that epoxied to some wood skids....should help with sliding on the wiers and not shredding my boat to peices...but, hey..these are just ideas...

the abuse we sometimes put our boats through down here tends to make want to build a battleship...but you cant pole a battleship and a battleship wont float where the fish are....lol granted there are fish to be caught in bayboat country, but, man the fishing is so much more fun in the "virgin" marsh....i want to go where the fish go....


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> thats been my concern with getting away from aluminum....we drag bottom lots around here...not rocks, but oyster shells, and crossing wiers( some are concrete, some are wood..)but for the weight i can save with a composite boat vesus aluminum , im thinking of some "sacrificial" skids on the bottom of the boat..not glassed on, just screwed on...i can get white teflon sheets fairly easily, thinking about strips of that epoxied to some wood skids....should help with sliding on the wiers and not shredding my boat to peices...but, hey..these are just ideas...
> 
> the abuse we sometimes put our boats through down here tends to make want to build a battleship...but you cant pole a battleship and a battleship wont float where the fish are....lol granted there are fish to be caught in bayboat country, but, man the fishing is so much more fun in the "virgin" marsh....i want to go where the fish go....



Go here and do a search for Spring Hill Steve. http://forums.bateau2.com/

He hits oyster bars and rocks above the water line and I'm amazed at how little damage is done. I intend to use the same paint he did for mine. She'll be a war horse.


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## JoshW (Mar 17, 2007)

> > Marshman,
> >
> >
> > Based on your post with first hand knowledge, I would have to agree with you on the FS18.  Don't they have a precut kit now?  That would definitely expedite the process for someone like me as a first time builder.
> ...


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## Cracka (Jul 1, 2007)

G'day CR, so you picked up the XF.  Has much been done to it at this stage.  I noticed in one of your posts you mention you have a glades skiff, is it a tiller or side console, I havn't noticed any pics of it anywhere   .  

I think it was your post on bateau, you are going with a tiller 40 for the XF?

Matt has some nice paddle craft on his site, (Jem) I will be real interested to see Chalks boat finished, did you have a look at it.

Probably a dumb question, but what is a 'bhilly boat' 

Mick


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

im not trying to speak for captron, but ....bhilly boat is basically an xf 20...little different...its the skiffs that capt billy henderson builds...20 feet long, 8 feet wide....

http://www.microdraftboats.com/


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## Cracka (Jul 1, 2007)

....yeah, I'm in the picture now, thanks mate....I have seen them as well as the XF20 etc, just didn't know the local term for them.

Mick


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> im not trying to speak for captron, but ....bhilly boat is basically an xf 20...little different...its the skiffs that capt billy henderson builds...20 feet long, 8 feet wide....
> 
> http://www.microdraftboats.com/



Kind of like asking the difference between Hells Bay and Beavertail IMHO. Captn Bhilly is well know in these parts and probably to inspiration behind the XF-20. The XF-20 is superior IMHO or I would have just bought a Bhilly - I passed on a couple of sweet Bhilly Bhote deals. 

Josh,
I respect your opinion about the cost of the precut "biggest waste of money" but I'll respect it more when yours is finished . [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]. Precut is a huge jump start and psychological boost for those who are more into it's use than the build. No offense, but you FS-18 builders started out good but peetered out. That's just the nature. No different than it taking years to restore a classic car -trust me I know. My XF-20 is a pile of plywood but the tunnel is assembled. I bought it from a guy that started and didn't have time to complete the project. Good thing for me he's in the industry and had contacts that cut it with a CNC.  My "precut kit" ended up less than half the cost of the materials and since I had the motor, the XF-20 became very attractive. Otherwise I would have gone the precut FS-17.  I hope to have it done in time for the winter negative lows - that's where this boat really shines.


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## JoshW (Mar 17, 2007)

CR-
Yeah, it has taken me longer than planned to complete the FS18. I can't speak to the other guys who have/are currently building them, but my life has been entirely unaccomodating to boat building for the last year. 60hrs/week at work + 2000 hrs in getting my paramedic license, family member diagnosed with cancer/ treated/placed in hospice/ passed away over the course of six months, + significant ongoing issues with 2 other family members during the last year. Been a hell of a year, and I'm not complaining, but it has put the skids on boat building. A well finished FS18 can easily be a 4 month boat. One dood on Bateau finished his, from the first cut to launching in 5 weeks.

But, back to the point of this post. I've probably got 200 hrs into the boat total. Less than 20 of those were in marking the plywood and cutting it out. For the extra cost of the pre cut kit over raw wood, thats a significant $$$/hour amount. Just sayin.

Good luck with your XF20. 

Josh


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> that's where this boat really shines.


yeah, lets see how long b4 it "actually" shines.


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> CR-
> 
> 
> But, back to the point of this post. I've probably got 200 hrs into the boat total. Less than 20 of those were in marking the plywood and cutting it out. For the extra cost of the pre cut kit over raw wood, thats a significant $$$/hour amount. Just sayin.
> ...


Depends on the value you put on your time. Normal shop rate is between $50 and $65 per hour so at 20 hours it would be equal to $1000.00 value for the labor. Just say'n. Now if I could just generated enough volume to keep my shop busy at those rates in this economy :-/ :-/ 

Now, should we talk about the waste and/or errors with "miscuts" for the first time builder?


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> I've probably got 200 hrs into the boat total. Less than 20 of those were in marking the plywood and cutting it out. For the extra cost of the pre cut kit over raw wood, thats a significant $$$/hour amount.


After many discussions with ron about this I understand where he's coming from, but I'm with you on the cost vs labor-to-launch ratio. I wouldn't pay extra for the pre-cut either, but not everyone is comfortable with that aspect of the build, even if its 10% or less of the overall project.


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> > that's where this boat really shines.
> 
> 
> yeah, lets see how long b4 it "actually" shines.



She won't. 

Bottom of Spring Hill Steve's boat after a winter's use.










Precut isn't even an issue for me since I bought mine for less than half the cost of the materials CNC precut.  Just say'n

BTW. Got inspired by this thread and looking at my jigsaw puzzle. Going to try to have it done before fall.  Putting the other "builds" on the back burner to finish this first.


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## JoshW (Mar 17, 2007)

> > Now, should we talk about the waste and/or errors with "miscuts" for the first time builder?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

looks like he has steelflex on that thing. 

... and yeah, you got a great deal on an aborted project, but thats not something the average joe can count on. 

So as fer yer progress, I you even taken the material out of the trailer yet? [smiley=1-sillyface.gif]


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## White_Lightning (Dec 15, 2006)

marshman,

I just stumbled on to this topic and not to bring up the loading and unloading of the boats again, but if you are running a houseboat up a river to use as headquarters so to speak and fishing out of smaller boats then why not tow them behind the houseboat. I have seen that numerous times down in the Everglades over the years. A group of guys would drive their houseboat to the Huston or Lostman's river and anchor up then just take the smaller boats out to fish. They do the same thing in the Amazon when they Peacock Bass fish. It's an option that might suit your application. 

Good luck with whatever boat you decide on.

Zane


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> > > Now, should we talk about the waste and/or errors with "miscuts" for the first time builder?
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> looks like he has steelflex on that thing.
> 
> ... and yeah, you got a great deal on an aborted project, but thats not something the average joe can count on.
> 
> So as fer yer progress, I you even taken the material out of the trailer yet? [smiley=1-sillyface.gif]



No. With the 20 hours I saved in the cutting I don't have to rush so I got some sleep.  Going to the shop to generate $$$ now.


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> looks like he has steelflex on that thing.


I need to finish researching but I think it's Sterling with graphite - the stuff I was telling you about.

Josh probably knows off the top of his head though.

I'm not doing super chiny. I'm going roll and tip - it's a utility boat.


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## JoshW (Mar 17, 2007)

Nope, don't know off the top of my head. I wasn't impressed enough with the bateau endorsed finishes to drop the $$ on them. If you're going to roll and tip (which seems to be as shiny as sprayed finishes more often than not) I can highly suggest Interlux Brightside. Reasonably priced, and no worry about mixing paint/catalyst while trying to roll and tip.

As to the construction methods, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I didnt come into with the idea of saving money by building a boat. That idea had been squashed by veteran boat builders I know. 
My focus was the journey, not the destination.


Josh


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> If you're going to roll and tip (which seems to be as shiny as sprayed finishes more often than not) I can highly suggest Interlux Brightside. Reasonably priced, and no worry about mixing paint/catalyst while trying to roll and tip.


Yes, I'm aware that it can be just as shiny. I'm just not concerned with that. I will chose what ever paint I think will hold up best in lieu of the $$. I place a pretty high value on my time.  Roll and tip seams the best choice since while I probably won't abuse my hull like Spring Hill Steve, I will be traveling the same country and those hazards seem to come up from the deep. ;D ;D



> As to the construction methods, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I didnt come into with the idea of saving money by building a boat. That idea had been squashed by veteran boat builders I know.
> My focus was the journey, not the destination.
> 
> 
> Josh


Not necessarily. Was merely pointing out the options. I have a full shop and I work to template in another field every day. Really NBD. But to discount one ever making a mistake is just not realistic IMHO - unless you have never had employee's ;D ;D ;D

As deerfly stated, we have spent some time discussing the advantages of buying the CNC cut kit. Truth is, I would never really do it. Once I decide to do something, I wouldn't wait the 4 plus extra weeks when I could have it done in a weekend. 20 hours is 2 light days for me.


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

Just my opinion for future builders...

If you don't have the skill or the time to cut out your own panels, then you probably don't have the skill or the time to build a boat.


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

> Just my opinion for future builders...
> 
> If you don't have the skill or the time to cut out your own panels, then you probably don't have the skill or the time to build a boat.



Best line on the thread. [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


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## JoshW (Mar 17, 2007)

Bob speaketh teh truth.


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

> > Just my opinion for future builders...
> >
> > If you don't have the skill or the time to cut out your own panels, then you probably don't have the skill or the time to build a boat.
> 
> ...




agreed... [smiley=1-thumbsup1.gif]


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Dredging up and old one....

What did you end up choosing Marsh?


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## costefishnt (Dec 11, 2006)

one of my favorite topics.....


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

> one of my favorite topics.....


 [smiley=1-laugh.gif] [smiley=1-laugh.gif]


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## nbk65bo (Sep 11, 2008)

.


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## Salty_South (Feb 25, 2009)

I really liked the gladesmen BUT, could not find a gladesman hull for under 7,000 dollars!!! I just picked up a year old Gheenoe Classic MV with trailer and new Yamaha 9.9 for about $4,000. That being said, unless you have a ton of money, its a no-brainer!! Gheenoe...


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## marshman (Feb 9, 2007)

dang..old post... i actually still havent gotten either...cant afford a gladesmen(cant find just a hull, thats all i need, dont need motor and trailer and what-not), and the few gheenoes that have popped up, still are a complete rig...

i chose to build my own hull....im about 65 % complete with it..

the houseboat trip, we made...i just used my lil skiff that i have...


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