# Fluorocarbon bite/shock tippet?



## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Some years back I tried fluorocarbon in both fresh and saltwater but the fish just didn't seem to care one way or the other. In the same "vain" I just got some UV resin, (loon and solarez) to try that stuff out. (still just kinda sitting there in the drawer  )

Back to fluorocarbon...
Has there been improvements that make it a go to item?
What brand do you use and why?
Is there a big difference between them?


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I use Seaguar Blue Label fluorocarbon for all leaders and tippets, test and bite.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

Flouro is almost never needed for the whole leader IMO. I use it for bite tippet in ultra clear water. Otherwise, it becomes a problem because it sinks. Even for clear water tarpon fishing, I want the leader to stay near the surface so the fish can eat "up". 40# flouro for tarpon bite tippet only. My $.02


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

I’m not picky about the butt section or even a middle section but flouro always for the tippet. More abrasion resistance around oysters when redfishing and lower visibility for tarpon. It does sink some but I’ve not found it to be a problem in getting too low for poon to “feed up.”

I usually use 12-16# flouro for general purpose but will downsize when fish are really spooky or super clear. Tarpon get 50-80# depending on Keys vs. Panhandle.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

As others have noted - fluoro for bite tippets (or for conventional gear, short casting leaders usually less than 24" worth...). I prefer Ande fluoro for sizes 20-40lb, then move to Seaguar for 50 to 80lb sizes... 

The reasons I use fluoro are twofold (and neither of them are about it's visibility like the ads tout... The first is that I find it slightly more abrasion resistant than mono - the second, even more important to me is that you always struggle a bit with the memory curl in mono leaders - with fluorocarbon you absolutely eliminate it ( to the point that when fluoro first became available those old tarpon fly stretchers became obsolete... since they're just not needed when you move away from monofilament for bite tippets..). 
I simply build or rig my leader then secure fly or lure on a cleat or other fixed object pull hard and hold for a moment or two and you're done - a perfectly straight leader -that stays that way... For those not aware Mason hard nylon has the same properties, rig a fly leader with it as the tippet and it will behave the same as fluoro when stretched and held for a moment...


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

lemaymiami said:


> memory curl in mono


I hang 7 foot pieces of mono from the rafters in the garage attached to 16 oz sinkers. Few hours latter they be straight and stay that way. Cut some 20 inch pieces that I put into a plastic tube for spares and then I tie some flies up and they go on a notched thin piece of plywood to keep them straight.

If I can eliminate that with some fluoro sounds like it would be well worth it although the board hasn't been a problem for me, it would let me have just a little more space in my "kit".


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## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

When building leaders, can you add a flouro tippet to a monofilament leader without weakening the knot connection?


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I'll fish fluoro tippets when the fish are really spooky, like sheepshead, or big speckled trout in really clear water. Rest of the leader is mono.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Yes you can splice mono to fluoro leader material (and the same goes for braid to fluoro but the knot requirements change)... 

Setting up to splice for max strength (every knot as strong or stronger than the line itself takes some doing - but it’s easily learned). 

For me the first step is a Bimini twist on the end of the line - 20 turns with mono, 40 turns for braid.... The splice? A Slim Beauty for mono or a uni to uni knot with braid (that uni to uni? )... Two or three turns for the fluoro, with nine turns for the doubled braid...

All of the above connections are as strong (or stronger ) than the line itself ... Pretty handy the day you hook up with a really big fish on fly or light tackle gear...


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## Snakesurf (Jun 18, 2019)

Hope this doesn't piss off anybody. Both lines are made of nylon. Mono is more abrasion resistant than fluorocarbon because it is less denser and therefore has more elasticity. When fluorocarbon is nicked or abbraded, because the material is more brittle and reaches it elastic limit faster, it will fracture more easily. Fluorocarbon, because it is denser, when straightened it it will stay straight. It is harder to get Mono straight. The knot strength of Mono is stronger than fluorocarbon, again because of its elasticity. Fluorocarbon may have a very slight advantage in being less visible but it is so slight that it really doesn't matter and it is the same with the sinking part. It will sink just slightly faster than mono.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I use it for the bite tippet for tarpon because you can straighten it easily. Mono almost everywhere else and if they water is dirty, than mono. 

I also do not like flouro for top water flies as it will pull the fly under.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

First a heck of a lot of world records where caught on mono, Ande mostly. I don't know if floro is invisible or more abrasion resistant. I basically use it for bite and let the mono stretch. I think what @Snakesurf said was right
I think floro was invented to catch fishermen. Just sayen


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Trilene Big Game


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Definitely differences in fluorocarbon leaders. One brand of 15# will have a different diameter than another. One thing true fluorocarbon won’t do is breakdown under sunlight/uv light like nylon monofilament eventually will. Fluorocarbon won’t absorb water either like nylon.

I started using fluorocarbon leaders when I fished topwaters a lot. Fluorocarbon didn’t stay up long on the meniscus in still water froming a shadow like nylon did and I felt like it helped some extra suspicious fish commit. I like that fluorocarbon sinks a little, I generally want the fly to get down more quickly in most situations where I fish. Much of the sight fishing I do is bump the fly up off the bottom as the fish comes into range. Lead the fish a little, bump off the bottom the fly at the right moment, then the bottom focused fish eats. I don’t want the nylon leader bound to the surface tension to hang up a barely negatively buoyant fly so that the bottom rooting fish swims underneath it and misses out on the whole sequence. 

I’ve bought Seaguar, some other japanese made ones, Portuguese made high seas, triplefish, Berkeley. Some of the off brands I like as much as seaguar and they aren’t much more than nylon leader material if any. Berkeley vanish is one I don’t like as much, kind of seems out of round and lumpy. Portuguese fluorocarbon is generally much less expensive than the Japanese made stuff. They have a bigger diameter than Japanese Seaguar pound for pound, but I think the extra diameter helps in the abrasion resistance department.

Fluorocarbon doesn’t recover as well as nylon from near breaking point shocks so I probably retie after big testing fish battles. It lacks the elastic recovery of nylon, doesn’t spring back into shape. Loop knots, the loop itself, not the knot, will fail eventually after X amount of fish, probably something to do with that elastic recovery deal.

I had a couple of spools of 20# nylon leader go bad, not sure what got to it, but it would easily shatter with a minimal tug. Lots of things can work on nylon to mess it up and I store my stuff in a hot garage or hot truck or out in the sun at times. Maybe DEET in mosquito spray. But there’s no shelf life on fluorocarbon and it can stay in the sun indefinitely or be wet constantly and that won’t degrade it in a meaningful way like nylon can.

My two best fishing buddies use 100 % nylon trilene monofilament with no reported issues. They do change out all the line every so often. I’ve got some fluorocarbon leader butt that has to be 7-8 years old and still strong.

It can all work nylon, braid, fluorocarbon, right, but I wouldn’t say they all work in identical ways. Might be advantages or disadvantages depending on what and how you like to fish.


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## BrownDog (Jun 22, 2019)

for my own fishing I just tie up my leaders with off the spool mono (usually big game or ande) then a section of fluoro for the tippet, again off the fishing line spool.
i like fluoro for the sinking properties as I mainly target redfish and like my fly low in the water.


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

I haven't conducted any side by side testing but pretty much any leader I tie has a fluoro bite section. This is based on reading and on recommendations from guides. As for knotting fluoro and mono I can't report any problems aside from needing to use fewer turns on the fluoro side of the blood knot in order to get it to seat. I've had 20 pound class tippet break in the middle while my knot held strong.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Looks to be that nothing much has changed over the years.
Finished servicing my main reels so it's time to replace the backing, then butt on the fly lines.
Just going to stick with these for now.


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## Poontangler (Jul 13, 2017)

On a side note of brands, I have been using the orange label “salmon” Seaguar that comes in a hundred yard spool, and is super cheap compared to any of their other higher end styles, and you get what seems like an endless amount for the same price give or take as a 25 yard spool. It only comes in 20-50 pound, and I have used the 40 and 50 with good results. I feel they tie better knots too, I have the blue label 60, and it definetly is a more heavy duty type of flouro, and is most likely better abrasion resistant, but tougher to deal with for sure. I was told it was just one of their other brands re-branded towards a different market so that’s why it’s cheaper, not sure, but if I’m buying I just use that stuff. My favorite small flouro, is the Orvis Mirage brand, not that it is super strong, it’s that the diameter and invisibility in real life really seems smaller than any I’ve seen, it does have some bounce to it in the 16 pound and will break on the wrong fishes, but I feel that’s how I got crazy bites from fish that normally don’t eat because of its properties. The 20 pound of theirs is small enough to get away with and is definitely stronger by a lot it seems.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Poontangler said:


> The 20 pound of theirs


It's not unusual for mono to have a higher breaking strength than what the manufacturer lists it as.
For a short time in the seventies I tied my tarpon leaders down to 15# then 80 or 100# bite tippet.
In those days I started with heavy duty glass rods that you could put enough pressure on a big fish and brake the 15#.
Went to 20  and then quit using all the fancy knots and my leaders held up (I think) as good as when I used 15#.
Only thing I might do different today is try out some of the new fluorocarbon for a bite/shock tippet.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

georgiadrifter said:


> When building leaders, can you add a flouro tippet to a monofilament leader without weakening the knot connection?


yes


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

mro said:


> 16 oz sinkers


I keep all my "real big" and heavy duty leader materials (including wire, sleeves, crimpers, down rigger stuff etc) in a box out in the garage. Generally only see it once or twice a year. My 16 oz sinkers turned out to be 6 oz


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I use fluorocarbon for all my leaders that are not surface flies. Depending on how I want the leader to act I might change brand or different line inside a specific brand. I use Cortland, Rio and Sunline for my fluorocarbon.


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## rspehL (Feb 23, 2015)

I have been happy with the Seaguar green label, a little pricey but the abrasion resistance is better than most.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

rspehL said:


> Seaguar


I googled fluorocarbon leader (80 pound) and Seaguar came up the most and for 25 yards the price was $45 to $65.
Made in China

Tried googling made in the USA but no joy.
But this did come up among all the others.

RUNCL-SVALLET Fluorocarbon Leader 50 yards for $36.00, made in Japan

Anyone heard of them or tried their product?


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

I use Fluoro for the last sections of my Salt Water leaders and for the bite tippet. I also use Fluoro tippet for all of my guiding in freshwater for trout including with dry flies .

For me its all about the fact that it is almost invisible in water. Both places that I guide, New York's Upper Delaware River system and Tampa Bay have super clear water. This is a great advantage. The fact that it stays straight is also a benefit.

Here is the straight science.
While not invisible under water like many people believe, *fluorocarbon* is less visible under water than nylon. Water has a *refractive index* of 1.33. *Fluorocarbon* has a *refractive index* of 1.42 which is closer to water than the 1.53 of nylon. This is what makes *fluorocarbon* less visible under water.

Less visible is a major advantage and different brands vary. 100% fluoro is the best any brand.
When comparing nylon to 100% fluoro in a glass of water the difference is easy to see. 
There is also a big difference in the size of the line. Our saltwater bite tippets in #30,40,50 are visible but when you get down to trout tippets of 4X, 5X, its almost invisible 6X, 7X, 8X disappear in water. Having line that is difficult to see is a big advantage with wary fish.

As for the abrasion claims. I watched a very comprehensive comparison by the guys at Salt Strong. They set up side by side abrasion tests of different strength lines. Nylon won every time as the fluoro broke well before the nylon.

For me less visible outweighs strength.

my 2 cents


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## rspehL (Feb 23, 2015)

mro said:


> I googled fluorocarbon leader (80 pound) and Seaguar came up the most and for 25 yards the price was $45 to $65.
> Made in China
> 
> Tried googling made in the USA but no joy.
> ...


I know Seaguar’s double structure FC is made in Japan. Check it out.





__





FLUORO PREMIER | Seaguar


Freshwater and saltwater fishing lines/leaders.




seaguar.com


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Ken T said:


> I use Fluoro for the last sections of my Salt Water leaders and for the bite tippet. I also use Fluoro tippet for all of my guiding in freshwater for trout including with dry flies .
> 
> For me its all about the fact that it is almost invisible in water. Both places that I guide, New York's Upper Delaware River system and Tampa Bay have super clear water. This is a great advantage. The fact that it stays straight is also a benefit.
> 
> ...


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

rspehL said:


> Check it out.


Must be bad advertising on Amazons seller as in their add they said it was made in China.

As for the factories web site and you I stand corrected.

Kureha has two production sites in Japan that supply the world with specialty products. 
According to to their web site they make the raw material to finished product.
Seaguar it is.


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## Fliesbynight (Mar 23, 2020)

Ken T said:


> For me less visible outweighs strength.



I'm with you. Strength does mean anything until there is a fish on to test it and I can always change the shock leader/tippet.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Hard to beat Ande’s fluoro since you get twice as much leader per spool than the more expensive brands - but we still go for Seaguar standard blue label for 60 and 80lb bite tippets.

The main reason we use fluoro leader material isn’t because it’s supposed to be less visible… It’s because I can eliminate any coiling or twisting by simply stretching and hold it under tension for a moment before my anglers use it on both fly and conventional gear…


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

lemaymiami said:


> Hard to beat Ande’s fluoro since you get twice as much leader per spool than the more expensive brands - but we still go for Seaguar standard blue label for 60 and 80lb bite tippets.
> 
> The main reason we use fluoro leader material isn’t because it’s supposed to be less visible… It’s because I can eliminate any coiling or twisting by simply stretching and hold it under tension for a moment before my anglers use it on both fly and conventional gear…


Agreed with Captain Lemay. Fluoro changed the tarpon game because you didn't have to carry a leader stretcher, pre-stretch you bite tippets, etc. Second if you fishing off color water at all it's a waste in my opinion.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

For fresh water I use mono, Ande. I used some floro on my drop fly while grass carp fishing and the floro drug my hopper fly down conversely, for common carp I want the fly to sink so I'll use floro there. Same for RedFish
I use 50-80lb. Yo-Zuri floro for Tarpon bite and Rio mono,Ande mono and Seaguar floro for class


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