# Florida Skiff Challenge



## Lagoonnewb (Apr 16, 2017)

It’s going to come down to yellowfin or hells bay just like it usually does. My pick is for yellowfin again this year. Might try to get on the water as they are passing new port richey and run with them for a bit lol


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Lagoonnewb said:


> It’s going to come down to yellowfin or hells bay just like it usually does. My pick is for yellowfin again this year. Might try to get on the water as they are passing new port richey and run with them for a bit lol


Yep, I’m rootin’ for YF too!


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

Would like to see more before and after photos. Im sure that trip puts a beating on them skiffs.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Hope they don't get stuck in the green muck as they pass Tampa Bay. You know while burning tons of fuel to support the environment.

Lol, can you tell I'm a bit sour on the event. Mostly cause it's by invite only so it will never get any real attention.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

firecat1981 said:


> Hope they don't get stuck in the green muck as they pass Tampa Bay. You know while burning tons of fuel to support the environment.
> 
> Lol, can you tell I'm a bit sour on the event. Mostly cause it's by invite only so it will never get any real attention.


We’ll set up our own event soon buddy! BCBW is almost ready! And once I meet the minimum requirements for this one, I will enter “if allowed” and WIN!


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

I think they should run purely "stock" skiffs. This is getting like NASCAR.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

DBStoots said:


> I think they should run purely "stock" skiffs. This is getting like NASCAR.


I like the sound of “Winston Cup” skiff challenge! Right up muh alley, count me in!😉 BB’s knows a thing or three about hopped up performance!🤘🏻


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

I’m in for a skiff challenge 👊


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

What no Chittum? What, are they tool cool for it?


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## ptiterikikikw (Apr 6, 2021)

I think you have done it at all.....you should try once more time


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

coconutgroves said:


> What no Chittum? What, are they tool cool for it?


I think they figured out the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. This event gets so little attention that no one outside of our circles knows about it.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

It will be ok guys. Much more going on to be fretting about than a few weenie boats racing.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Much to my wife's dismay this is a bucket list item for me. I would love a change to participate in something like this.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Hope the front gets here in time to kick up the winds and the Gulf. The weather is what makes these races interesting. Looks like the will be heading into a South wind for the first leg.


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

I've never really kept up with it in the past and don't think it's very indicative of what boat is best. Best for what? Can they choose any path they want or do they all have to take the same basic path? Seems like some entry-mid level brands up against a couple of very high-level brands. And a few brands not really known for their "skiffs." Weird.


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## jpipes (May 6, 2012)

I think it's an interesting follow, especially as proof of what these skiffs can actually handle outside of the norm with a skilled driver. I'd love to see East Cape and Chittum added to the mix.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Raising money and awareness are worthy goals.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Anyone can participate in the skiff challenge. The continous run in sometimes rough water can expose weaknesses in the design and construction of the skiff. Chris Peterson of HB uses the challenge to test design/construction/rigging/materials. Starting with carbon innegra to all carbon this year. As an example, last year two of the bolts holding the Atlas micro to the transom sheared. Part of the process is a long list of items that did not work or needs improvement on the skiff, everything from rain gear to rigging. 
Do all skiff companies want to know what works in harsh conditions? Do most skiff owners need skiffs to perform in harsh conditions?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I'm rooting for Excalibur!


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Its about as interesting and useful as the Yellowstone Rod Shootouts...IMHO...


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## marshrat (Feb 22, 2018)

firecat1981 said:


> Hope they don't get stuck in the green muck as they pass Tampa Bay. You know while burning tons of fuel to support the environment.
> 
> Lol, can you tell I'm a bit sour on the event. Mostly cause it's by invite only so it will never get any real attention.


But they bought carbon offsets!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

If anything the wind should make things interesting. Hope everyone's bilge pumps work .


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

el9surf said:


> If anything the wind should make things interesting. Hope everyone's bilge pumps work .


At least it is a following sea on the ride back north


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

jlindsley said:


> At least it is a following sea on the ride back north


Looks like they might luck out. The 30mph SE wind doesn't look like it will hit till Saturday.


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## Caddis (Feb 2, 2020)

Do they have a section going over each boat?


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## reedriley8 (Sep 3, 2020)

Caddis said:


> Do they have a section going over each boat?


Ive always thought they’ve done a poor job documenting/promoting the whole process. Not much there in regards to social media, photos & videos of the skiffs, talking with the drivers, showing the aftermath of the race. Would love to see them go over each boat.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

reedriley8 said:


> Ive always thought they’ve done a poor job documenting/promoting the whole process. Not much there in regards to social media, photos & videos of the skiffs, talking with the drivers, showing the aftermath of the race. Would love to see them go over each boat.


It's a freaking joke! I would like to see the start, but can't find any info where to see it. Not on captains for clean water ot the skiff challenge FB page. This has been a problem every year. What the hell is going on!?


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## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

I know the event has its detractors....but it’s still in its infancy. It would be nice to have aerial coverage (helo or drone) at the start....and maybe a larger, more seaworthy chase boat for some video. The whole event could be documented via a 30-minute TV episode. 

I’m hoping eventually big-name sponsors will become involved. With many other sporting events becoming politicized.....something like The Skiff Challenge draws my interest much more than an NBA, NFL or MLB game. Heck....I’d start drinking Coors Light if they’d pony-up a sponsorship. Well.....maybe not.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

georgiadrifter said:


> I know the event has its detractors....but it’s still in its infancy. It would be nice to have aerial coverage (helo or drone) at the start....and maybe a larger, more seaworthy chase boat for some video. The whole event could be documented via a 30-minute TV episode.
> 
> I’m hoping eventually big-name sponsors will become involved. With many other sporting events becoming politicized.....something like The Skiff Challenge draws my interest much more than an NBA, NFL or MLB game. Heck....I’d start drinking Coors Light if they’d pony-up a sponsorship. Well.....maybe not.


Infancy? You're kidding right. This isn't like it's the first year or 2. They turn away willing participants every year and only allow factory teams of a certain size to compete. It will never be a large event, but could easily be up to a dozen teams running if they didn't cater to the few so they can use it for advertising. Each team pays $5k and supplies their own chase teams to boot. Plus they have multiple sponsors on top of it. Remember they are raising awareness, not funds for the cause. I asked where the money goes several times.....crickets.

Am I a detractor of the actual event, no, I am a detractor of the organization of it.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

On a lighter side....
Hells Bay has taken the lead after a bold move where they jacked up the motor and proved they run the skinniest by running over dry land!


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## reedriley8 (Sep 3, 2020)

Caddis said:


> Do they have a section going over each boat?


just saw they have a few clips on their Instagram walking through a few of the boats


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## JonathanD (Feb 19, 2019)

The "live" trackers are nearly useless, as usual.


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

Here is the start.

__
http://instagr.am/p/CNaN8RPBGhH/


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Apparently it's a semi secret event. Wonder how they would stop a rogue team from just running unofficially and maybe winning? Guess that's why it's semi secret.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Mark H said:


> Apparently it's a semi secret event. Wonder how they would stop a rogue team from just running unofficially and maybe winning? Guess that's why it's semi secret.


Make'em pole over a six inch 100 yard flat at the start. 😁


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

A skiff is different then a technical poling skiff. Just means a simple lightweight small boat.

A rogue boat would never be recognized even if it won. Just open the damn thing up.


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## Gatorbig (Jan 15, 2021)

hb coming in hot!


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## Gatorbig (Jan 15, 2021)

Seapro and Key west stopped to refuel earlier than yf and hb.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

They might be preparing for an offshore run to cut out the bend.


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## Dben (Sep 20, 2020)

HB found 'Plaid Mode'


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

firecat1981 said:


> A skiff is different then a technical poling skiff.


 Yes but the requirement would make the race infinitely more interesting. 😁 





firecat1981 said:


> A rogue boat would never be recognized even if it won.


It would here.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Mark H said:


> Yes but the requirement would make the race infinitely more interesting. 😁
> 
> 
> It would here.


That's not enough for me, I'm already a pimp here, lol.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Are they still using Spot trackers? If so I think I'm gonna go the other way when the time comes, lol.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Its way more interesting to read the thread here than actually try to follow the race online


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Anyone see the fuel spilled by the HB team in Marco? So it _looks_ like while the guy is finishing up with the jug , another guy is watching over the side and when fuel comes gushing out of the vent and into the water, he signals the guy to stop.


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## tigerfly (Apr 4, 2019)

Key west might be having issues. Turned in towards land not far after leaving marco


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## tigerfly (Apr 4, 2019)

Yep. Doing 4mph currently. Chase crew has turned around on 90 heading back west. Looks like they will meet in Everglades City or Chokoloskee


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## reedriley8 (Sep 3, 2020)

I work for an AIS based vessel tracking company called ShipTracks. Currently tracking Hells Bay and Yellow fin through AIS on our website. Much better updates than their live tracker.


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## tigerfly (Apr 4, 2019)

reedriley8 said:


> I work for an AIS based vessel tracking company called ShipTracks. Currently tracking Hells Bay and Yellow fin through AIS on our website. Much better updates than their live tracker.
> View attachment 172044


Guessing that’s a paid service?


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## reedriley8 (Sep 3, 2020)

tigerfly said:


> Guessing that’s a paid service?


Yes but there are other free AIS-tracking sites. 

Edit: Keywest express is not Yellow Fin, my mistake. Havent been able to find them yet.
Double Edit: Im totally wrong, not sure if these boats are even transmitting AIS. Don't tell my boss...


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## William Odling (Jan 8, 2020)

The guys in this race are the hipster douchebags of the skiff world. 

They are doing as much good for their "cause" as the annoying high schoolers are when they go to 3rd world countries and "help out"


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

kind of a dark outlook. do you know them?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Don't know about hipster D-bags, but I agree the cause is lost on me. An environmental cause supported by burning tons of fuel, spilling gas, and cruising through the shallows and speed zones? 
It's still fun to follow.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

reedriley8 said:


> Double Edit: Im totally wrong, not sure if these boats are even transmitting AIS. Don't tell my boss...


That's funny right there!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

On that note, does anyone know for sure which trackers they are using. They advertised using Spot a few years ago and had similar issues. Again it's not a glowing endorsement for whatever company it is.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

The crab race at tween-waters is more exciting to watch in some regards.


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## William Odling (Jan 8, 2020)

devrep said:


> kind of a dark outlook. do you know them?


Just poking fun


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

So did KW officially bail out, or is their back up tracker now broken too?


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Looks like HB edited the video with the deliberate fuel spill. Probably a good thing since this is supposed to be promoting clean water. 😉


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## jpipes (May 6, 2012)

Sublime said:


> Looks like HB edited the video with the deliberate fuel spill. Probably a good thing since this is supposed to be promoting clean water. 😉


I saw that too...interesting indeed.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

In one of the videos of Yellowfin yesterday the fuel guy trying to get on the skiff almost fell in the water and then proceeded to dump gas all over the cockpit!
Not a great look with the whole gas thing!



Sublime said:


> Looks like HB edited the video with the deliberate fuel spill. Probably a good thing since this is supposed to be promoting clean water. 😉





jpipes said:


> I saw that too...interesting indeed.


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

What's up with Sea Pro? Looks like they turned around and went back to Marco, and their chase team did the same. They've been there over an hour now.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Yeah, I’m thinking maybe they should trailer the boat up the ramp with some absorbent pads under if they are to continue!


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

Per the Facebook page, Sea Pro is out. They lost the motor cowling and soaked the engine. It was still running, but they didn't have the confidence in it to keep going.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Sea Pro is out with motor issues after losing their cowling and soaking the motor.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Fuel spills, cowlings floating in the Gulf.... I'm cracking up over here. Maybe if a sea creature uses the cowling for a home it will be a good thing. #cleanwater lol


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Sea pro should have ran it till she shut down on it's own. They said a extra cowling was waiting at the fuel stop in kw. More respect for going till you can't go then quitting!


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

makin moves said:


> cowlings floating in the Gulf.... I'm cracking up over here.


Too bad it didn't fly off in a no-wake zone...they could have spun around and picked it back up pretty easily...


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

makin moves said:


> Sea pro should have ran it till she shut down on it's own. They said a extra cowling was waiting at the fuel stop in kw. More respect for going till you can't go then quitting!


Damn Skippy! I would have just slowed it down until they got there.


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

crboggs said:


> Too bad it didn't fly off in a no-wake zone...they could have spun around and picked it back up pretty easily...


What motor was sea pro running. Wonder if it was faulty equipment or human error not latching it properly


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## ShugC (Apr 23, 2016)

csnaspuck said:


> What motor was sea pro running. Wonder if it was faulty equipment or human error not latching it properly


their Instagram pictures of the boat show a Suzuki on it


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Shoo son, dats hows ya know a boat with a hopped up outboard is fast on the chain of lakes. You gotta leave da cowlin off to give er some more air!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Tx_Whipray said:


> Per the Facebook page, Sea Pro is out. They lost the motor cowling and soaked the engine. It was still running, but they didn't have the confidence in it to keep going.


Good decision


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

The chase team are stuck in traffic due to a brush fire. So the skiffs will get to the next refuel spot before the chase teams.


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## tcov (Apr 7, 2018)

Full send!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

What happened to YF that allowed KW to make up a 100 mile gap?
Was it just a series of bad navigation choices this year? I know trying to cut across to cedar key didn't work out well, and then to run the east coast all outside?


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

firecat1981 said:


> What happened to YF that allowed KW to make up a 100 mile gap?
> Was it just a series of bad navigation choices this year? I know trying to cut across to cedar key didn't work out well, and then to run the east coast all outside?


they tried going back out of Port Canaveral and turned around and came back inside. Then they made a terrible navigation mistake by running south in the Banana River around South Merritt Island and then back north the ICW adding 30 + miles they did have to do. It was very painful watching them make a bad mistake like that. They didn't know about the Barge Canal that on every navigational map. Had they took the canal they would have been right next to Key West.


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## Flatoutfly (Jun 11, 2020)

I will say to everyone on here with all the negative comments. If you don't agree with what and how they are doing you are entitled to your comments. But these guys are fighting and doing more and getting results more so then anyone ever has with Florida's water issues. They are trying to protect the one thing this forum is about. How many organizations like Captains for clears water do you support with membership and donations.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I think you need to go retrace the negative comments Sir. None of us are against CFCW! Many of us support and donate to them. All the negativity is against this race organization, I mean "challenge", which really does nothing for the cause or to raise much money for it.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

firecat1981 said:


> I think you need to go retrace the negative comments Sir. None of us are against CFCW! Many of us support and donate to them. All the negativity is against this race organization, I mean "challenge", which really does nothing for the cause or to raise much money for it.


Besides the fuel spills, grass chopping, no wake zone fly byes, etc... the “challenge” really raises awareness for preserving our waters!🤣 
I’m with ya on CFCW, believe they do a lot. The skiff challenge, not so much. Lower the entry fee, add some smaller companies, enforce no wake zones and proper fuel handling, and that would raise awareness!


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## William Odling (Jan 8, 2020)

firecat1981 said:


> I think you need to go retrace the negative comments Sir. None of us are against CFCW! Many of us support and donate to them. All the negativity is against this race organization, I mean "challenge", which really does nothing for the cause or to raise much money for it.


well said. I donate to CFCW and buy their merchandise, but this “challenge” does nothing.


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## William Odling (Jan 8, 2020)

I’m going to raise awareness for deforestation by doing the “chainsaw challenge” through the Brazilian rainforest.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Well I guess that settles it, HB finishes first, so they must construct the best skiff.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Sublime said:


> Anyone see the fuel spilled by the HB team in Marco? So it _looks_ like while the guy is finishing up with the jug , another guy is watching over the side and when fuel comes gushing out of the vent and into the water, he signals the guy to stop.


Yeah, I saw the video on an IG post. Someone commented, "that's a nice shot of fuel in the water". I commented "racing to raise money and awareness for clean water...spills fuel into the water." I checked back a couple hours later and the post was deleted.


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## matt_baker_designs (Nov 27, 2012)

I’d like to see a good quality documentary done on this race. It’s pretty cool as a challenge. Especially after running in light chop in my skiff for 20 minutes, running for 44 plus hours in a variety of conditions is a feat for sure. It needs more coverage.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Flatoutfly said:


> I will say to everyone on here with all the negative comments. If you don't agree with what and how they are doing you are entitled to your comments. But these guys are fighting and doing more and getting results more so then anyone ever has with Florida's water issues. They are trying to protect the one thing this forum is about. How many organizations like Captains for clears water do you support with membership and donations.


I'm not sure you know how the guys feel about water quality here on this site. Go take a look at the environmental threads, no one thinks it's a joke. But a little ribbing a poking fun passes the time and makes life ,well generally more interesting. Relax, you just read the room wrong.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

makin moves said:


> I'm not sure you know how the guys feel about water quality here on this site. Go take a look at the environmental threads, no one thinks it's a joke. But a little ribbing a poking fun passes the time and makes life ,well generally more interesting. Relax, you just read the room wrong.


Oh hell, empty the gyp stack into the bay already! Dilution is the solution to pollution!🤣🤣🤣
I jest, and agree! We all care about the environment and our life's blood that touches the state on 3 sides! Without Florida’s water ways and other natural resources, there is no Florida! That said, want to clean the waters? Get rid of golf courses, St. Augustine sod, and manatee tours! Oh hell, get rid of the mouse too!👊🏻


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

Anything that brings attention to the issue, whether it’s a lot or a little, is overall a good thing. I think there are a lot of traditional ways to raise funds and this is just a different way so I’m all for it and don’t get the negativity associated with it.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

If they really wanted to raise more awareness why don't they let more boats builders enter ins't there an entrance fee you could raise more money with more participants.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

makin moves said:


> Fuel spills, cowlings floating in the Gulf.... I'm cracking up over here. Maybe if a sea creature uses the cowling for a home it will be a good thing. #cleanwater lol


I’m picturing the worlds largest hermit crab with Suzuki on its side


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

KimmerIII said:


> Anything that brings attention to the issue, whether it’s a lot or a little, is overall a good thing. I think there are a lot of traditional ways to raise funds and this is just a different way so I’m all for it and don’t get the negativity associated with it.


Did you really understand why many of us are sour? Some of us have tried to put teams together and were denied entry because it might take the spotlight away from the big factory teams. Shouldn't the spotlight be on the cause? I really feel this event is more about lining some pockets then raising awareness, if it wasn't they would be making a larger effort for media coverage, not just social media nonsense that only people already in the boating community will see. Telling the same core group about the issues that they already support does nothing to raise awareness. For Pete's sake there's a damn ecological disaster happening along the race route right now and the event got zero coverage. One call to Bay News 9 or Fox 13 and they would have jumped all over it.

Also they would try to pack the field with as many boats as possible.
If a damn Keys poker run can get over 200 boats then surely this event can get a dozen teams. That said most builders think so little of this event, or how it's been run, that only 2 of the 4 teams were even from Florida. That speaks volumes.


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

firecat1981 said:


> Did you really understand why many of us are sour? Some of us have tried to put teams together and were denied entry because it might take the spotlight away from the big factory teams. Shouldn't the spotlight be on the cause? I really feel this event is more about lining some pockets then raising awareness, if it wasn't they would be making a larger effort for media coverage, not just social media nonsense that only people already in the boating community will see. Telling the same core group about the issues that they already support does nothing to raise awareness. For Pete's sake there's a damn ecological disaster happening along the race route right now and the event got zero coverage. One call to Bay News 9 or Fox 13 and they would have jumped all over it.
> 
> Also they would try to pack the field with as many boats as possible.
> If a damn Keys poker run can get over 200 boats then surely this event can get a dozen teams. That said most builders think so little of this event, or how it's been run, that only 2 of the 4 teams were even from Florida. That speaks volumes.


Line people’s pockets? Who? Let me get this right, you think the owners of these big boat companies are building skiffs specifically for this event and then racing them 40 plus hours one weekend a year to make money? Like the whopping $14k hell’s bay raised this year? You really believe that? If so, I got some waterfront property in Arizona I’d love to sell you.

It looks like you are butt hurt you weren’t allowed in so you are now talking shit about it on a forum. They’ve raised over $70k from this event this year With a goal of $100k....which is pretty good considering that is almost 10% of their total yearly contributions.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

KimmerIII said:


> Line people’s pockets? Who? Let me get this right, you think the owners of these big boat companies are building skiffs specifically for this event and then racing them 40 plus hours one weekend a year to make money? Like the whopping $14k hell’s bay raised this year? You really believe that? If so, I got some waterfront property in Arizona I’d love to sell you.
> 
> It looks like you are butt hurt you weren’t allowed in so you are now talking shit about it on a forum. They’ve raised over $70k from this event this year With a goal of $100k....which is pretty good considering that is almost 10% of their total yearly contributions.


No genius, not the companies competing, the organizers. Can you tell me where the 70k is going? Or why the entry fee is 5k when you have to supply everything but the transponder and a single fill in KW? I've contacted them several times and asked about it, and all they will say is it cost a lot to put the event on. They wouldn't even give me a reason the competition was by invite only.
Am I butt hurt, a little. I had a team forming with sponsorship and partially funded by myself. The bigger issue for me though is as soon as a charity turns away people willing to donate thousands of private dollars, or won't answer financial flow questions, then they have lost my confidence.


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

firecat1981 said:


> No genius, not the companies competing, the organizers. Can you tell me where the 70k is going? Or why the entry fee is 5k when you have to supply everything but the transponder and a single fill in KW? I've contacted them several times and asked about it, and all they will say is it cost a lot to put the event on. They wouldn't even give me a reason the competition was by invite only.
> Am I butt hurt, a little. I had a team forming with sponsorship and partially funded by myself. The bigger issue for me though is as soon as a charity turns away people willing to donate thousands of private dollars, or won't answer financial flow questions, then they have lost my confidence.


So capitains for clean water is pocketing the money? Is that what you are saying?


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

firecat1981 said:


> No genius, not the companies competing, the organizers. Can you tell me where the 70k is going? Or why the entry fee is 5k when you have to supply everything but the transponder and a single fill in KW? I've contacted them several times and asked about it, and all they will say is it cost a lot to put the event on. They wouldn't even give me a reason the competition was by invite only.
> Am I butt hurt, a little. I had a team forming with sponsorship and partially funded by myself. The bigger issue for me though is as soon as a charity turns away people willing to donate thousands of private dollars, or won't answer financial flow questions, then they have lost my confidence.


Your team was denied entry into the event because.... $5k entry fee not met?


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

so if you guys were running this thing and let any joe captain enter and they drowned out there what would you do when their family sued you for everything you own? how do you judge the qualifications to operate a boat for a bunch of people who think they have what it takes but you don't know them?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

devrep said:


> so if you guys were running this thing and let any joe captain enter and they drowned out there what would you do when their family sued you for everything you own? how do you judge the qualifications to operate a boat for a bunch of people who think they have what it takes but you don't know them?


Ever hear of a waiver?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Ever hear of a waiver?





devrep said:


> so if you guys were running this thing and let any joe captain enter and they drowned out there what would you do when their family sued you for everything you own? how do you judge the qualifications to operate a boat for a bunch of people who think they have what it takes but you don't know them?


So a normal person can't be as good a captain as the owners of Hell Bay give me a break


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Like many have said, having barriers to entry is only limiting the exposure of the event and total donations. The more teams = the more following = more donations. Pretty sure there are more Key West boats out there than HBs, which is probably why they received more in donations. Also, it helps when you don’t run through no wake zones . Imagine if Maverick, Actioncraft, ECC, Cayo, BT, etc joined - that’s $20k times X teams. Makes you wonder if the focus is more on brand marketing than clean water. Curious, who’s idea was this in the first place, HB? Who made the rule of 5k entrance fee? If each team gets 20k in donations isn’t the 5k entrance fee irrelevant and contra-productive to the cause? 

The best marketing campaigns usual don’t appear as Marketing at all.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I will never understand all the round-mouthing given to Hell's Bay and Captains for Clean Water. Hells Bay sure builds a pretty boat but those captains are a bunch of squares.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

KimmerIII said:


> So capitains for clean water is pocketing the money? Is that what you are saying?


I'm not sure, because I could never get an answer. Do I believe the organization is running a scam, of course not! It's intent, and the Captains involved are all very admirable and that's why I've donated to them in the past. That said, nearly all charities have administrators and staff that get paid a good amount and get good perks, some very good if you get what I'm saying.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

sjrobin said:


> Your team was denied entry into the event because.... $5k entry fee not met?


No I was willing to pay the $5k as I had it at the time. I had several friends lined up for the chase team and copilot. Had a sponsor lined up for some of the other expenses and fuel.... but I wasn't a manufacturer so we weren't allowed to play.

As far as waivers are concerned, there are literally hundreds of dangerous events held all over the US each year, and waivers work just fine. Everything is at your own risk.


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

firecat1981 said:


> I'm not sure, because I could never get an answer. Do I believe the organization is running a scam, of course not! It's intent, and the Captains involved are all very admirable and that's why I've donated to them in the past. That said, nearly all charities have administrators and staff that get paid a good amount and get good perks, some very good if you get what I'm saying.


Well not to be a dick but I could tell your post was pretty much you complaining and taking a shot at them cause you couldn’t participate, but that’s another discussion, and also just slinging uneducated rumors.

Just so you know, and maybe you don’t, but all non-profits are required to file form 990’s with the IRS which shows clearly their financial situation as well as any highly compensated board members, officers, etc. The non-profits do not have to publish them but the ones that aren’t shams usually do because they aren’t paying large salaries to people or worried about what they are doing. They also are supposed to provide copies upon request. You can find Captains for Cleanwaters online and see who is being paid what. I check them out for all non-profits to make sure a large percent of their money is not spent on salaries. So, your insinuation that they are “pocketing the money” is not only wrong, it is rumor mongering because you are pissed at them.

While no group is perfect and maybe someone eats a steak dinner on the non-profits dime occasionally, at least we finally have people working to defend/support recreational anglers. The commercial sector has whipped the recreational’s asses for years via fundraising and lobbying and besides the CCA, this group is finally one of the ones that is actually doing something to help all of us out.

I’d hope most of us could see the big picture and not do exactly what the commercial guys say we do which is infight amongst ourselves which is counterproductive and helps no one.


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## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

If anyone is interested.....their tax returns for 2016 thru 2019 are on their website....bottom of the page:









About Us - Captains For Clean Water







captainsforcleanwater.org


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

KimmerIII said:


> Well not to be a dick but I could tell your post was pretty much you complaining and taking a shot at them cause you couldn’t participate, but that’s another discussion, and also just slinging uneducated rumors.
> 
> Just so you know, and maybe you don’t, but all non-profits are required to file form 990’s with the IRS which shows clearly their financial situation as well as any highly compensated board members, officers, etc. The non-profits do not have to publish them but the ones that aren’t shams usually do because they aren’t paying large salaries to people or worried about what they are doing. They also are supposed to provide copies upon request. You can find Captains for Cleanwaters online and see who is being paid what. I check them out for all non-profits to make sure a large percent of their money is not spent on salaries. So, your insinuation that they are “pocketing the money” is not only wrong, it is rumor mongering because you are pissed at them.
> 
> ...


Who said I wasn't complaining? I'm not going to be a dick and answer sarcastically, obviously I was complaining as was everyone else about the events organization. Uneducated, no Sir, unanswered. I am well aware of the published data from non-profits, and having been part of several I can tell you the data only tells a partial story. In case you missed my earlier comments, as well as the threads from years past, I did put in a request, actually several that all were ignored. The tax breakdown won't show me what I wanted to know about the event. I wanted a justification of the cost of the event. Again the only answer to the 5k entry fee was that the event costs a lot to put on.

Anyway I didn't insinuate the organization was pocketing the money. I said I feel it might be about lining some pockets. There's a big distinction there. 

Infighting and animosity is spurned by exclusion historically.

We can table all that for now cause we won't figure it out. Still can anyone give me a real reason that a charity event would exclude any willing participants who are not a factory team from a builder of a specific size? Asking for a friend? Lol


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

Look man. Convince yourself of whatever. You said in your own posts that “All the negativity is against this race organization, I mean "challenge", which really does nothing for the cause or to raise much money for it.” That’s just wrong. This event raises almost 10% of their yearly take. That’s not pocket change.

You then go on to repeatedly question if it’s lining someone’s pockets so you were insinuating someone was personally profiting on it. The fact is (a) they don’t owe you an answer for anything other than legally what they are required to and (b) they publish it showing who makes what salaries. You were trying to act like something nefarious is going on because you weren’t allowed to participate and because they didn’t fulfill the information request of someone they don’t know. I personally don’t blame them.

If you want to say they should open it to more people or whatever fine. I personally don’t give a shit if they are throwing mullet at the florabama to raise money or racing skiffs around Florida. The fact is that we have been getting screwed by the govt and commercial sector for a long time and I really hate seeing people shit on an organization that is trying to do something for all of us. That’s why we are in the snapper debacle we are in in the gulf, why the Everglades have been screwed up, etc.

All I am saying is try and see the big picture. We all need to work together. I personally think it would be cool if you or any other person wanted to be a part of it.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Ever hear of a waiver?


being an ex MX guy, do you know how many MX tracks were sued out of existence where EVERYONE has to sign a waiver?


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Backcountry 16 said:


> So a normal person can't be as good a captain as the owners of Hell Bay give me a break


did you read my post? how can the organizers know who is and who isn't a competent captain? have them bring a note from their mom.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Again, I'm not against the charity, I'm against the organization of this event. If this was a private venture I would agree with you, but as a charity that has taken my money happily for years I think it's wrong to blow people off. It's a small charity, and it will remain that way if they don't grow there exposure. This event and the opportunities missed within could have been huge.
Nefarious? That's pretty strong as it implies obvious and purposeful wrongdoing to produce an additional negative result. I'm just looking for answers. I see a big picture, but it's currently in a frame to small for it's size.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

devrep said:


> did you read my post? how can the organizers know who is and who isn't a competent captain? have them bring a note from their mom.


Waiver easy peasy not really that hard


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

devrep said:


> did you read my post? how can the organizers know who is and who isn't a competent captain? have them bring a note from their mom.


So what keeps Hells Bay YF and the other 2 racers family from family siung if they drowned ? Because they're boat builders?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

So back to the race.... how crazy was KW second place finish? Someone suggested that is was a lighter lamination schedule just for the race, but I'd think they would be concerned about durability.
YF definitely made some choices that didn't work out huh.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Backcountry 16 said:


> So what keeps Hells Bay YF and the other 2 racers family from family siung if they drowned ? Because they're boat builders?


nothing. and a waiver won't help.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

firecat1981 said:


> So back to the race.... how crazy was KW second place finish? Someone suggested that is was a lighter lamination schedule just for the race, but I'd think they would be concerned about durability.
> YF definitely made some choices that didn't work out huh.


I was surprised too but Key West makes a great boat. Does it really mean anything who finishes first lol? The Biscayne finishing first only proves that having a boat that’s 12”s narrower and half the weight is faster - comparing a truck to a Ferrari. I will say the 1720 is a safer and better big water boat than my 18 HPX - mostly due to the high sides. These challenges can be misleading as MOST people don’t have interest in jumping 3’ waves at WOT.


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## Gatorbig (Jan 15, 2021)

Interested in the lam schedule also heard their captain mention it. And in a vid before the race they show kw factory using a chop gun. I would think hand laying would save a good chunk of weight. Something has to be different to get that bigger boat moving with a 70


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Big picture we need to shut down the state line. Water quality will not get better with this many people moving here every single day!!!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

makin moves said:


> Big picture we need to shut down the state line. Water quality will not get better with this many people moving here every single day!!!


X 2 buddy


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

devrep said:


> nothing. and a waiver won't help.


Bingo so your point is mute.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

sure. you're right about everything. what else can you educate us on?

btw way, it's moot, not mute.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

makin moves said:


> Big picture we need to shut down the state line. Water quality will not get better with this many people moving here every single day!!!





Backcountry 16 said:


> X 2 buddy


X3!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I thought Chittum was supposed to participate this year.


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## William Odling (Jan 8, 2020)

el9surf said:


> I thought Chittum was supposed to participate this year.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

devrep said:


> sure. you're right about everything. what else can you educate us on?
> 
> btw way, it's moot, not mute.


Maybe it's both. 😁


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