# Traveling the Everglades Backcountry



## 4991

Let's just say you are broken down in north WW Bay...outboard won't start. No cell service. Is the best way to contact somewhere through VHF? Or is it out of range? Then what? I am sure folks on here who would like to explore the ENP, would benefit from a discussion like this.


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## GTSRGTSR

Yeah, my att phone works almost all the way to Oyster Bay and loses signal. 

VHF will work, I know the range is better than 20 miles... I bet they could get you from the Keys CG station.

VHF, sat phone, spot, or PLB are about your options....

I have a PLB, strapped to my inflatable vest. Dont go solo without it. Gonna buy a handheld vhf, for issues other than dire emergency


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## Bob_Rogers

Best solution - 25w VHF radio with 20' cable to a Metz Manta 6 whip antenna. This antenna does not need a ground plane and can be duct taped to your pushpole, which gets your broadcast 20' up in the air. You can do this with some handhelds that have a removeable antenna if you get the adaptor for its antenna socket, but then you've only got 5-6 watts of hello. The Metz antenna's 34" whip unscrews from it base, so very easy to stow or mount out of the way.

The rangers will hear you from anywhere in the Park with this set up, their antennas are way up high.

The rangers will come get you, but not your boat.


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## GTSRGTSR

Interesting that a perm mount has 25 watts and handheld has 5 watts. 
At least the CG can send seatow or towboat.


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## CurtisWright

Why would you want someone to come get you?  It would be a perfect excuse to fish a few days longer. 

In that situation I would start push poling towards a more traveled area like the shark river or south towards the St Joe. Which ever direction was with the wind and currents.  I would anchor up when they were not favorable.  I would flag down the first person that passed and ask that they give me a ride or notify the park service when they got back to the dock. 

I keep a couple of freeze dried just add water backpacking meals in my boat in case I have to spend the night in the marsh.  I freeze coke bottles and use them for ice in case I ever need to melt them and use them for water.


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## snooks

> Why would you want someone to come get you?  It would be a perfect excuse to fish a few days longer.
> 
> In that situation I would start push poling towards a more traveled area like the shark river or south towards the St Joe. Which ever direction was with the wind and currents.  I would anchor up when they were not favorable.  I would flag down the first person that passed and ask that they give me a ride or notify the park service when they got back to the dock.
> 
> I keep a couple of freeze dried just add water backpacking meals in my boat in case I have to spend the night in the marsh.  I freeze coke bottles and use them for ice in case I ever need to melt them and use them for water.


fishing or staying the night in whitewater bay is not even an option unless you are broke down in the dead of winter....if you think the ramp is bad in the summer time. Breaking down in whitewater bay and staying the night....not gonna happen....been there done that. Years ago we ran out of gas at the top of whitewater breaking in a new motor and used the trolling motor to run the markers back to the ramp until it died at marker 38 and was lucky enough that another boat saw our flare and was coming down the markers and picked up my brother to get gas....rangers showed up and midnight with gas.....the ramp mosquitos were a joke compared to what happened in whitewater bay that night. On top to that we had to get inspected which resulted in 2 tickets. My suggestion is to go with 2 boats and that way you can help your buddy and vice versa if something happens and also file a float plan. Oh and poling aint gonna happen either...if you think snakebight is soft I think the bottom is softer and also deeper in whitewater.


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## tailchaser16

> At least the CG can send seatow or towboat.


Read somewhere that Boat US now has a in Marco for the Everglades. That would be your only bet for the back country. Out front, they come from Islamorada.


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## Bob_Rogers

> At least the CG can send seatow or towboat.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that Boat US now has a in Marco for the Everglades.  That would be your only bet for the back country.  Out front, they come from Islamorada.
Click to expand...

Or call you, if you're Brian and blew another lower unit.....


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## 4991

I doubt a handheld VHF can reach Marco..


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## Brett

Made many runs back and forth from Flamingo-Chokoloskee.
Radios, Extra water/food/fuel and back-up outboard were the rule.
I didn't make the run in a micro, not enough space for comfort or gear.
Wandered anywhere a 19' Whaler would fit into.
Spent some interesting tide changes stranded back in the creeks.


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## lemaymiami

As Bobber noted many old timers keep an extra long spare antenna cable so that in an emergency they can re-mount their VHF antenna to the end of pushpole and get that all important antenna as high as possible to be able to transmit in areas where the trees would block your signal... 

Now for some hard stuff... NO, there's no tow boat at Flamingo (the old houseboat concession used to have a "chaser" to retrieve broken down or grounded houseboats and they'd tow in anyone needing a tow -for free... but all of that ended with hurricane Wilma... Any towboat for Flamingo or the interior of the 'Glades will be coming from either Marathon on the Florida Bay side or Chokoloskee on the interior side... Yes, you'll be paying portal to portal for any tow (that means big bucks -one of my customers was billed almost $1000 for a tow from East Cape back to Flamingo - that's roughly double what you'd pay over in Biscayne Bay.... I teach beginners learning to run the 'Glades that the only help you'll find usually in the backcountry is other anglers. Heaven help anyone that doesn't offer to assist another guy who's broken down.... I've towed in my share without ever asking for a penny (and I've been towed in once myself...)

Here's the routine I follow if I break down... By any means possible I'll get myself to the marker line running across Oyster or Whitewater Bays (if you need help you'll find someone running the markers most of the time). If I'm up a river or creek I'll do my best to get out to the coast or out into the nearest big bay (if you want help you need to get found first....). Since I have AT&T my first move will be to place a phone call to either the Rangers or the marina store (239)695-3101 and the info I'll provide is my Lat/Lon from my gps so they'll know where I am... If I'm out of cell phone range I'll go to my VHF, onto channel 16 and call the Coast Guard... After that you'll be doing a lot of waiting, wherever you are. Much more about this sort of stuff but I'm going to need a cold beer to start with....

Hope this helps, remember to look out for other boaters -never pass up a boater who's either popped a flare or raised both hands above his head... next time it coudl be you needing the help....


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## lemaymiami

By the way for those who think Whitewater or Oyster are softer than the flats in Florida Bay... they're not (and I've spent some of the past forty years poling that area ) - I did today as a matter of fact. The problem with poling home is the sheer distances involved for those of us who run the backcountry. When you hit marker forty (the last marker in Whitewater...) you've run exactly fifteen miles (one of those "ask me how I know" deals). If you're out near the gulf coast you're at least 22 miles from Flamingo (add five miles to that figure if you choose to run the outside home...). We covered nearly 80 miles round trip today.... I don't want to think of just how far I might be from the ramp if I ever break down (and the more you run the sooner you're going to find trouble in my experience....).


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## Brett

Pole home? From the back country?  ;D

I kept a 4 hp long shaft kicker on the back of my boats.
Light weight outboard, sailboat prop for maximum thrust.
Ran the same fuel mix as the primary outboard.
Also had a separate 6 gallon backup tank to run it.
Used it more than once to make it back to the marina.
4 mph beats sitting and waiting for a tow, and tow speed is about 6 mph.
I've putted into Flamingo harbor a couple times, late at night, after engine problems.
That 4 hp always got me home. Sometimes I'd have to wait out a tide change
to get through Tarpon Creek, needed a following current to get through.

A 6 gallon tank would last about 12 hours at full throttle.
That would give me about 48 miles of travel with the 4 horse.


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## tailchaser16

> Any towboat for Flamingo or the interior of the 'Glades will be coming from either Marathon on the Florida Bay side or Chokoloskee on the interior side...


There's a tow boat out of Chokoloskee???



> At least the CG can send seatow or towboat.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that Boat US now has a in Marco for the Everglades.  That would be your only bet for the back country.  Out front, they come from Islamorada.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or call you, if you're Brian and blew another lower unit.....
Click to expand...


Wouldn't be the first time I got a call from a buddy's wife that their hubby was extremely late returning.  One of them was your friend Rick.

As for your other friend Brian; he sent out a mass text that he was broke down in Chokoloskee Bay.  No one answered so he had to use the troller to get back.


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## lemaymiami

Brett, years ago many kept kickers as a spare "get me home" on rigs running the backcountry - and it was a good idea... Today's lighter, smaller, rigs probably would have to work hard to have the space to even keep one....

When I was first venturing into the backcountry all those years ago, the common advice was never to go into the interior unless you went with two boats... Fortunately the gear is a lot better than it was back then... Unfortunately, if it's man-made - it's going to break... The last three days we clocked between 70 and 80 miles each day round trip out of Flamingo. Tomorrow I'm running the other way... out of Glades Haven.

I said Choko for that tow vessel - more probably it would come from Everglades City (or even from Marco or Naples)... Don't think you'd be talking about Sea Tow or any other big service either - just a commercial tow, trying to earn a living...


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## Brett

> years ago


In my case, still.  

After spending a night jn the early 70's, fighting skeeters and being towed back into Flamingo,
I learned my lesson and vowed never again to have to wait for help. 
All my skiffs have had a secondary mode of propulsion.
Be it oars/paddles on my marsh skiffs or "kickers" on my larger hulls, always had a backup.
Whether 20 miles offshore chasing pelagics or 20 miles into the back country after estuarine species,
always had the means to get myself home from mechanical failure and emergency communications
capability in case of injury or illness. Cost and weight were a minimal expense
when compared to the piece of mind provided by having the emergency gear aboard and ready to use.

Murphy is always lurking, waiting for the worst possible moment to do his dirty work.
Usually at the furthest point from the ramp you had planned to travel.    ;D


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## Vertigo

> always had the means to get myself home from mechanical failure and emergency communications
> capability in case of injury or illness.


This is an attitude I can support 100%. Too many boaters rely on luck and other people for rescue. "Self-rescue" should always be the first option. 

Have the tools on hand and know how to fix most common motor problems. Carry enough food, water and spare fuel. Have an alternate means of propulsion and good signaling and communications gear. 

I recently rescued a guy who spent the night on the water because he didn't know how to lower his motor when the tilt/trim failed. He had no tools and no radio. Fortunately he had a cooler full of beer so he wasn't dehydrated or too unhappy. He also had a flare, otherwise he might still be drifting around out there. 

Advice: If you have to use a flare during daylight, wave it like crazy. I almost ignored the flare when it was stationary, thinking it was just a reflection.


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## paint it black

I have only "broken down" in the park three times. One time I somehow ran out of oil way back in Santini Bight. I managed to make it to Dump Keys where there was a guy who was in the process of syphoning some oil out of his Yamaha, when someone saw I posted on Social Media that we were out there and came and towed us in. 

the other two times their were actual issues. The shift linkage on a buddies Maverick fell apart, we somehow managed to get it working and it shut off at the marina and didn't want to work again. 

Another buddies motor just gave up, after a bunch of messing around with it, we got it to run enough to get to the ramp, again that motor never started again after that. 

All those have been out front, none in the back. But same thing goes with that. Travel to the nearest high traffic area and wave someone down if possible. I always try to get the problem taken care of myself, and use someone elses assistance as a last resort, unless I know time is not on my side. If it's the afternoon and know not many other boaters will be around, then I would go for that. All I keep with me in my iPhone with AT&T. Maybe I should buy a VHF. 

-Eric


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## lemaymiami

One of the requirements for a guide's permit in the 'Glades is a working VHF on board...

One other minor thing that most aren't aware of... The vast majority of emergency flares for marine use are pretty much worthless... (that includes, 12 guage, and 25mm... even though they meet minimum Coast Guard requirements). The only ones worth having are a bit expensive - they're called SOLAS flares (the handhelds are $10 each - the parachute is nearly sixty bucks...). SOLAS stands for "safety of life at sea" -these are the flares required for an ocean crossing. They're so much better than anything else, you can pop one in a downpour and be seen from quite a distance. The para goes up 1000 feet (compared to cheapies that only go 500 feet (and that height means they're visible for a much longer time....).

I keep Pains Wessex solas flares on my skiff and very carefully replace them as they expire every four years.... Can't recommend them enough, they're waterproof and can even be fired when you're in the water (if it comes to that). Any time you see a movie sequence where someone pops a flare... you can bet that the solas flares are what you've just seen....


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## RonBari

About 25 years ago: After three "guided" tours out of Everglades City with a friend who knew the area, we (wife and I) thought we were ready to head out on our own. Headed "south" for several miles until we saw a place that "looked good" and started winding our way east through the islands. We were so stupid and uninformed, I can't even tell you where we were except "somewhere around a place called Chatham Bend".

Ran aground at WOT, falling tide, damaged lower end, prop, and clogged intakes. No cell phone, no VHF, no GPS. Luckily, we were able to Mickey Mouse the repairs while waiting out the tide and were able to make it back on our own just before dark.

Reality: Today at age 63, I've kept myself in good enough shape to still be able to surf and do the things I want, but I do not think I could comfortably survive a couple of nights in the back country... I've not lost my desire for a good adventure, but I know and admit my limitations. Even though we now carry proper communication and safety gear, I either arrange to do remote long distance explorations with two boats (brother or nephew), or I keep it closer to port.


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## TurnMeLooseFLKeys

There is a cell tower down around Flamingo that is AT&T only. Other than that, I don't know. I don't have a VHF on my flats boat, so I'd probably be screwed until I saw another boat.


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## JRP

Excellent thread no one mentioned carrying a spare prop and tools to chance it with in the event of spinning a hub, also a role of duct tape can come in real handy both which have saved me.Another thread should be started on what to carry in boat for emergencies and breakdowns when traveling back country , trying to keep it simple or you will need 25 more hp to get on plane and the boat will draw to much water to get into some of those shallow bays.


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## tailchaser16

Here is the spare prop with removable blades that I carry in my toolbox with all the necessary tools to change. Only problem for me would be finding a shark, oyster or mud free spot to be able to get out and change the damn thing.

http://piranha.com/hydrobites/


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## topnative2

sat. phone comes to mind.........


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## GTSRGTSR

If you go the sat phone route, I would warn you against Global Star. I had one on rental this summer and the reception and use was pitiful. It was damn near worthless, couldnt lock on a satellite most of the time and more than 1/2 calls were dropped. I was in clear country with good sky.

Spend a little more and go Iridium.


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## 4991

Didn't some put together a comprehensive camping list of essentials? I cannot seem to find it.


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## mharvey

Agree, depending upon any organization for rescue is futile unless (1) you are actually able to communicate and (2) assuming you establish communication, it is a life threatening situation. Of course there is always the rare occasion a mechanical issue will strand you, but current motors generally will not leave you high and dry ( in the 70's and early 80's we always carried an auxiliary ). Most are stranded for lack of knowledge of the country and getting lost or plowing up on a bar. Tides are critical for navigation on the outside, not as much on the inside. Regarding taking two boats, several times, I have seen 
one boat follow another up on the same bar both inside and outside. In my opinion, the best way to learn the country is to follow an experienced boater while keeping one eye on a chart and paying attention to the tide phase. Tides are very regular and dependable in that country. Absent the ability to follow an experienced boater, I would have a current paper chart in hand and not depend on gps. Steady progressions as you learn the country. Of course all of the advise regarding other safety measures in the thread are important. Spent half the night on a mud bar waiting for the tide 20 years ago in middle of summer. Not real pleasant.

The trip from Choko to Flamingo is an awesome experience. Everyone should do it.


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## bw510

I have a fin and feather I take it down to everglades city a couple times a year to camp and I like to bring a kayak paddle that fits In my back hatch (carbon fiber for weight reduction lol) I also Bring a small tool kit in a dry bag with extra spark plugs, starter fluid, spare prop with extra nut, waterproof chart as back up to garmin GPS and iPhone GPS, super glue,duct tape,manual bilge,extra primer ball (I've had these go bad more than once) and some waterproof epoxy puddy to hopefully fix any holes or cracks in hull caused by rocks oysters logs etc. which is my biggest concern.

I also have a rain jacket and pants and netted hat to cover up if I do get stuck at night.

Surprisingly it dosnt take up a whole lot of room. 

I'm sure I'm forgetting to list some stuff


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## TurnMeLooseFLKeys

> The trip from Choko to Flamingo is an awesome experience. Everyone should do it.


About how long is the trip?

Well, I guess there are certain variables that imply. I have a 191 Ranger Cayman with a 200 hp Optimax. Say I could run 35mph for most of the trip...how long should it approximately take? My futile google attempt shows it's about 189 miles. Is that correct?


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## swampfox

You definitely will not be doing 35moh. The remoteness is what makes the middle Glades so intriguing. Usually you have enough gas and daylight to run to the middle area-fish a few hours-run back. To do it right you need to stay a night or two in the backcountry. The logistics are pretty tough. I put a ton of time into one of my trips. It's tough with one boat and three guys. It was for five days so it was a lot of fuel,food and water. You have to do stuff like freeze drinking water in bottles. That in the beginning of the trip serves as ice. But in the end it's your water. Then there's the regs on the chickees and ground sites. We kinda squatted on a chickee once when we got to Whitewater. And sure enough after we set about 9:00 at night. Here comes a house boat and three skiffs :-/. So we had to pack it up and ran to another one in the dark


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## captllama

A trip like this is on my bucket list but I have no experience with Flamingo or the back county, I just got into it.

Can anyone explain to me where is the best place to launch from? Is there any guides who would camp out the night with you? How many miles can you expect on average to run a day if you're there for 2 days/1night?

I like the idea of sleeping in a sleeping bag on my flats boat in the middle of the glades it seems like the best way to do it


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## 4991

Definitely do it man. The campground has 2 ramps on for the backcountry and one for out front in Florida Bay. The area is not too difficult to explore with a good chartplotter and map. I would spend a couple nights at the chickee and a couple nights at the campground. You can easily do 50+ miles in one day. It is an awesome trip.


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## dmgolub

I camped at The Watson Place a couple of years ago, in January. That was about 15 miles out of Chokoloskee, following the Wilderness Waterway. Absolutely memorable trip. It's a ground site. At night, it's so dark, all you can see is the stars. Think I'll go again right after Christmas. We caught over 100 Sheepshead on that trip. And the mosquitoes were almost zero.


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## lemaymiami

Y'all might wan to read what I just posted in the next thread "Chokoloskee" for some reference material to plan a trip in the backcountry (from choko or flamingo....).


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## captllama

> Y'all might wan to read what I just posted in the next thread "Chokoloskee" for some reference material to plan a trip in the backcountry (from choko or flamingo....).



I was reading it last night, tons of great information but I'm still not sure its best to go into the 'glades by myself first time around. What the average depth of water when running around? Is there clearly marked channels or more guided through knowledge of maps/experience?


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## lemaymiami

At the bottom of every marine chart in fine print is the notation "local knowledge advised" and in this case they're not kidding.... Yes, you can learn on your own -being very cautious -but many places and routes either aren't marked at all or the markers are almost an invitiation to trouble... 

Flamingo is very forgiving and pretty well marked. The 10K area isn't at all but you can still learn on your own a little bit at a time.. The problem with the Ten Thousand islands (and the upper bays) is that many places have oysters where you'd least expect them and they're hard on boats and motors (understatement).


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## dmgolub

> I camped at The Watson Place a couple of years ago, in January. That was about 15 miles out of Chokoloskee, following the Wilderness Waterway. Absolutely memorable trip. It's a ground site. At night, it's so dark, all you can see is the stars. Think I'll go again right after Christmas. We caught over 100 Sheepshead on that trip. And the mosquitoes were almost zero.



I wanted to mention that when we docked at The Watson Place, and were unloading the boat, I left a 1 pound bag of thawed squid on one of the picnic tables, and went back to the boat to get the tent, stove, propane, etc. When we returned to the table, a FAT raccoon had opened the squid package, and was eating it. I yelled for it to get out of here, and he took the whole bag with him. There was NO stopping him, and he WASN'T going to let it go. Luckily, we had more, still frozen.


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## mharvey

> The trip from Choko to Flamingo is an awesome experience. Everyone should do it.
> 
> 
> 
> About how long is the trip?
> 
> Well, I guess there are certain variables that imply. I have a 191 Ranger Cayman with a 200 hp Optimax. Say I could run 35mph for most of the trip...how long should it approximately take? My futile google attempt shows it's about 189 miles. Is that correct?
Click to expand...


It is not 189 miles. In fact we have made the trip to Ponce De Leon Bay and back to Choko many times in the sam e day. We were in a Mav MA and 18 Dolphin that could run mid 40's between spots and would run three or four miles offshore on the way home. Anyway, to answer your question we would fish the creek mouths ( and other spots ) starting at Broad river all the down on the outside to Ponce Bay then run inside late in the day to Flamingo. Occasionally we would stay on the outside the whole way fish East Cape canal and West Cape then enter Flamingo from the outside, lift over and fish inside back the next day. Rounding east Cape at sunset with an adult beverage is a pretty close to a religious experience.

My MA held about 34 gals and usually had a couple left at Flamingo. Carried a spare 5 for obvious reasons. You would probably need to carry some extra fuel. 

Good luck and I hope you do it. It will be a memorable experience.


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## iMacattack

*[movedhere] General Discussion [move by] iMacattack.*


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## Backwater

Little Chief,

I did just that about 25yrs ago with my 1st bride (married only a yr).  Heading down to the Keys on a quick 5 day getaway, we decided to swing into Flamingo for a 2 day overnight at the lil motel down there.  Rented one of their lil rental skiffs and thought it would be easier than dragging the boat down from Ft Myers.

Anyways, 1st day out we broke down in the skiff (14' rental Johnsen skiffs they use to rent for the day) on the north side of WW bay.  Up till then the day was full of good time and plenty of snook and reds.  But taking a rental skiff was asking for trouble and I should have known better.  The 15hp merc kicker would not start no matter what I did and believe me when I say I knew all the tricks to get the thing started without a tool kit.  We had nothing with us, no cell ph, no radio, no tools, no flares, 1 extremely small paddle and had some speciality glades bug juice they sold us at the Flamingo store that the skeeters drank like cool sweet tea.

Now growing up fishing the everglades and living on the Caloosahatchee River north of there, Mosquitos were an after thought and didn't bother me as some.  So out in the middle of the bay they weren't so bad.  But when the winds blew us near the mangroves, they ate us up and I felt bad for my bride, which she was torn up by them.

Anyways, from experience, I did just what the good Capt Lemay suggested and paddled 3 hrs (1 paddle) to the main channel where boats would shoot the markers. So when I got there, I dropped anchor and waited.  Finally, just as it was getting dark, someone saw us running by (the only boat we seen up there), stopped and towed us back in.

This was a rare experience since I always go prepared with my own boat or going with one of my family members or good friends.

I've fished and camped from Goodland to Flamingo for eons, mainly running out of Choko.  I don't trust any other for survival but myself but for you 1st timers out there, do what these guys suggested and go or follow someone who has lots of experience there.  I also suggest running the outside for the 1st few times instead of running the WW to make the trip from Everglades City to Flamingo.  Camping the outside designated areas are way better and less buggy, but you will have to learn where the shallow areas are and run way outside from pass to pass.  Also, you will have to rig your boat at night for the changing tides.  Plus far more people run the outside and you have an easier chance getting towed from there than from Lostmans Bay 5 or the Rogers river with very few boats can make that gauntlet.  Forget getting a tow boat from Sea Tow to come find you through one of the many mangrove tunnels you have to navigate thru.

That reminds me of the Small ranger boats they use to use that was a little bigger than a Gheenoe, just so they can navigate all those creeks and tunnels.  I'm not sure they completely threat all the upper bays anymore and just pop in from the outside.

Bw510, that was some good advice, along with Capt Lemay advise with the Flares and getting to the channels, bays or the outside on the tides.  I always pack for emergencies (basically the same way as Bw510) and pack light like he does.

You guys who pack everything including the kitchen sink and don't pack light will not have fun in a microskiff.  Think minimalist!  Pak lite and stow it without needing to run from camp site to camp site and unload everything before you can fish.  I watched a guy nearly sank his boat he had so much crap in it when the winds and waves kicked up. 

I also pack for medical emergencies including some heavy non-drowsy pain pills (just a few of them) incase something bad happens and could be a day or so before you get found.

You guys can have the Glades in the cold winter.  It keeps the rest of you out during the summer and thats when I like to camp and fish.  The hotter, stickier and buggier it gets, the hotter the fishing is.     It's not the bugs that bother me as much as the rats trying to get in your tent!   ;D

Bw510, I'm building up a Fin and Feather clone and we should hook up and run sometime down there.  What area do you live in?

Hey dmgo, don't bring squid to the Glades, Okay?   ;D

Btw, for those who might want to sleep on your boat down there, the ***** are smart and will swim out to the boat and ran-sak it.  So lock your hatches.


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## Backwater

Btw dmgo, my cat keeps trying to get your screen bug! ;D


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