# Ethanol Free Gas



## Brooksard (5 mo ago)

Alright, carburetor guys I totally get it. Ethanol is tough on the needle and can cause carb damage HOWEVER for the new fuel injected 4 strokes… I don’t see the point in ethanol free gas in them? I know alot of guys do it but is it because it’s ingrained in you or you have a legitimate reason? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just genuinely curious about your reasons.


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## KCTim (Feb 7, 2017)

Not exactly a technical explanation but here are my thoughts.Boat fuel systems are open air vented and ethanol with suck that moisture out of the air and into your tank. Also if you don’t use your boat for an extended period of time the ethanol will phase separate.


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## Brooksard (5 mo ago)

KCTim said:


> Not exactly a technical explanation but here are my thoughts.Boat fuel systems are open air vented and ethanol with suck that moisture out of the air and into your tank. Also if you don’t use your boat for an extended period of time the ethanol will phase separate.


I agree with you about the moisture, but if you’re running a fuel water separator does it really matter? And what stops our vehicles from getting moisture in The tank? I totally agree that if you don’t plan on using it, you should run your outboard out of gas anyway. And possibly put stabil in the gas


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

do what you want to do. if you use your boat a lot you may be fine. if it sits for weeks or months between uses you may not.


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## Brooksard (5 mo ago)

devrep said:


> do what you want to do. if you use your boat a lot you may be fine. if it sits for weeks or months between uses you may not.


Do you have a reason to believe this? I’m genuinely curious


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## 60hertz (Oct 31, 2008)

Phase separation of ethanol means that the alcohol and gas form distinct layers in your tank. Ethanol is not only hygroscopic, but water is also misable in alcohol.

You end up with a layer of fuel, a thin layer of water/alcohol, and a layer of pure alcohol.

The water pickup tube sits at the bottom of the tank.

The good thing is that when you start running your boat the motion will stir it up and the fuel-water separator will filter out the water.

But, think about it for a minute…

Unless you run ALL of the gas out of your tank you can eventually introduce more ethanol than the maximum recommended by your manufacturer (10%) due to the processes in work while your tank sits in between uses.

Save the corn juice for your tow vehicle and an evening libation, and go 100% gasoline with fuel stabilizer for your beloved boat.


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

I probably read to much LOL but this is why i use non ethanol...

six months
If stored properly, ethanol-free gas can last up to six months. It is not as likely to succumb to oxidation or evaporation. E10 gas has a three-month shelf life maximum. This makes ethanol-free gas ideal for storage compared to E10.


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

I ran 50+ gallons of 6 month old regular gas thru my old carbureted 1989 200 Johnson without any trouble. That motor ran on regular gas from the day it was new for over 30 years and never once rebuilt a carburetor on it.

I now run REC 90 in my 2021 250 Zuke and my 2006 Yamaha 2 smoke carbureted 150. 
I have few friends that have run regular gas in larger injected Yamahas and had trouble with pumps breaking down and needing replacement and clogging filters. 

I run Rec 90 and don't care the cost.

I keep my tanks full at all times. 
No condensation and I don't stop in the morning to get gas.
I have Never used an additive in any of my engines in over 45 years.

I works for me.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Better question is what advantages does ethanol have over pure gas? I don't see any other than price which is a market irregularity.

If I ran my boat multiple times a week I may not care but I don't do ethanol seems like all downside to me.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

Jason M said:


> I don't see any other than price which is a market irregularity.


I did a test years ago with my 2005 Chevy Tahoe with the fuel-injected Vortec 5.3L V-8. Back then, the price per gallon of non-ethanol was about 20% higher than E10. That was exactly the difference in fuel economy between the two types. I got 20% better MPG using the non-ethanol, so it was a wash. The added benefit was more power/torque and better acceleration with non-ethanol over E10. As engine technology has changed since then, there may not be as much of a difference now, but I still like non-ethanol for all the other reasons previously posted. And I do like corn liquor too! 😁


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I’ve run nothing but ethanol laced fuel in my motors for years - simply because that’s what’s commonly available… and if you’re towing your skiff about 4 hours a day plus doing 8 or 9 hours a day on the water…. Rec 90 stations just aren’t that convenient at all… I haven’t had much trouble running it - but there are some downsides…. 

Ethanol will attack gaskets and fuel lines on older motors. It’s also not as powerful as straight gasoline in combustion… Nowadays most cars will handle ethanol without the slightest problem - but boats are a different deal entirely since very few are used daily. The average angler will have to really fish a lot to put 100 operating hours on their outboard in a single year. I’ll put 100 hours on a motor in one month (April)…

I’ve only run E-Tecs since 2005 and will have to switch to a four stroke next year… since they’re not made anymore. I’ll be talking to both my dealer and my mechanic to decide whether I should switch to Rec 90 or not…

“Aren’t boats fun?”


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## attitudeindicator (Sep 8, 2020)

Ethanol fuel will draw in moisture and will suspend in the fuel before phase separation begins. It usually happens at 500ppm if I remember correctly. Sooo with this moisture suspended in the fuel it WILL bypass your water filter because it’s too small and start causing issues. Once it reaches the 500ish ppm requirement for phase separation the whole process happens in minutes.

I’ve repowered my boat with a brand new engine and within a few months had to replace a fuel pump and clean injectors because of corrosion due to the water particles. Now, every boat is different, I stored mine outdoors and it had a poly tank (expands and contracts more) but regardless, for the cost difference ill never put ethanol in ever again.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Since I started running only ethanol free in my lawn equipment I have had zero problems in 3 years. They start right up with priming after sitting unused for 4 months during winter. That was not the case when I used ethanol fuel. So I am not gonna risk a motor on my skiff when I don't risk a motor on a $300 line trimmer or $4000 zero turn mower!


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## Toddxthomasson (Aug 25, 2021)

Just sharing my Yamaha experience. I ran a 60 Hp Yamaha 4 stroke for 350 hours over 6 years and am currently running a 70 HP Yamaha 4 stroke for 600 hours and 8 years using the same gas (10% ethanol) that I use in my tow vehicle. With the 60 there was no fuel water separator and with the 70 there is a Yamaha 10 micron filter / separator. I try to use the boat once a week or better but at times it does sit in the garage for 2 weeks. Modern Yamaha outboards appear to handle the the ethanol fuel just fine.


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## Brooksard (5 mo ago)

Toddxthomasson said:


> Just sharing my Yamaha experience. I ran a 60 Hp Yamaha 4 stroke for 350 hours over 6 years and am currently running a 70 HP Yamaha 4 stroke for 600 hours and 8 years using the same gas (10% ethanol) that I use in my tow vehicle. With the 60 there was no fuel water separator and with the 70 there is a Yamaha 10 micron filter / separator. I try to use the boat once a week or better but at times it does sit in the garage for 2 weeks. Modern Yamaha outboards appear to handle the the ethanol fuel just fine.


I’m in the same boat, I’ve ran ethanol gas without a single issue. I think newer outboards are fine running it.


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

Yo todd all you got to do is click on those three dots top right, hit edit, and you can remove two of the quotes im sure you didnt mean! Great info ...


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

lemaymiami said:


> I’ve run nothing but ethanol laced fuel in my motors for years - simply because that’s what’s commonly available… and if you’re towing your skiff about 4 hours a day plus doing 8 or 9 hours a day on the water…. Rec 90 stations just aren’t that convenient at all… I haven’t had much trouble running it - but there are some downsides….
> 
> Ethanol will attack gaskets and fuel lines on older motors. It’s also not as powerful as straight gasoline in combustion… Nowadays most cars will handle ethanol without the slightest problem - but boats are a different deal entirely since very few are used daily. The average angler will have to really fish a lot to put 100 operating hours on their outboard in a single year. I’ll put 100 hours on a motor in one month (April)…
> 
> ...


hello Capt Bob. hope you're doing well. as far as ethanol goes, your boat does not ever sit idle so it probably works fine.


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## captjsanchez (Sep 8, 2015)

Brooksard said:


> Alright, carburetor guys I totally get it. Ethanol is tough on the needle and can cause carb damage HOWEVER for the new fuel injected 4 strokes… I don’t see the point in ethanol free gas in them? I know alot of guys do it but is it because it’s ingrained in you or you have a legitimate reason? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just genuinely curious about your reasons.


The same way a carburetor gets plugged from ethanol, injectors get plugged. The same way corrosion happens in a carb. It happens in the fuel system of fuel injection. It's your money, your boat, your tow bill, your repair bill.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

No issues just don’t let it sit


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## Paul Mills (Mar 26, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> No issues just don’t let it sit


This.

If I let gas sit in my ATV tank for more than 4 weeks, it wont start. Not unless I spray "ethanol" into the carb. Same with the lawnmower except that is often used.

My Yamaha outboard could probably run on diesel it is that bomb proof. I use it often however and never experienced fuel issues. Once it is lit, it is hard to put out. It has the normal water/fuel separator and I drain that every month.

Like Smack says, ethanol gas may cause issues on some old fuel lines and o'rings etc. I replaced my entire fuel line as a precaution and never had issues.


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

All this talk about gas sitting and carb issues is serious issues i understand, but i get a chuckle out of the fact we have a Bolen push mower we "might" use once a year just for rough trimming maybe longer ...ill bet anyone 1k that i can pump the primer bulb 3 times and it will fire up first pull, crazy i know i dont understand it my self but it has NEVER Failed to start first pull and its just covered up with old shower curtain all year 😁 and ive never really monitored the type gas put in it ....


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

I always run ring free. Never had issues on the 5 outboards I have run in my boating ventures.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

CKEAT said:


> I always run ring free. Never had issues on the 5 outboards I have run in my boating ventures.


Same


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## leon jones (Jan 13, 2022)

until Buc-ees opened here in town the closest E free fuel was 30 miles up the road 

this discussion pops up on many of the forums i follow on a regular basis and it frequently becomes heated :-(

E is made from grain and it has been found that for it to burn better a small amount of water needs to be added

too much water gives negative results

E attacks many rubber parts specially those made in other parts of the world

water left in fuel line/system components does attack the metal causing corrosion

for those still using metal fuel tanks this attack happens there too

water separators and filters are good additions for any all fuel systems

the see thru ones let the operator(s) know what they are buying and what isn't getting into their engines

the drainable ones make it easier for operators to get home when(not if) there are issues

folks who run a lot don't seem to have as many issues as those who's toys sit for longer periods of time

folks w/ the newer 4-strokes don't seem to be having as many issues as those of us w/ the older 2-smoke power plants

there are several good additives on the mkt that address many of these issues butt their ability to do their job wanes over time on duty and need to be added periodically to keep the systems safe(r) longer while in storage

some of the additive brands out there have MARINE specific products that "THEY SAY" will address the moisture issue better

for all my personal small gasoline engine powered equipment i keep a stash of treated non E fuel readily available in the barn

sadly non E fuel isn't always available for my outboard(s) when i'm off playing and there lies my personal problem

i do treat every tank E or E free when filling up

i still have issues butt my carburetor is old enuff(over 30 years) to have LTS(little tiny screws) which when removed allow me to blast those tiny passageways and bowl w/ aerosol carburetor cleaner and that gets me started b4 i head off on another adventure

to E or not to E ... that is the question ;-)

leon


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

If fuel sits very long I my tank I use a pump and line to pump It out. I also change the fuel separator more often than recommended. It’s cheap insurance. Also the ring free as stated. I do also use Yamaha fuel stabilizer quite a bit as well. All is cheap insurance to a screwed up trip or costly repairs. IMO


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## Rich11111 (Jun 6, 2018)

Before I went ethanol free I would siphon all the gas out of the plastic tank if it sat unused for over 1 month. Now totally ethanol free I don't worry about it.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I have a 2006 Yamaha 150 on my 20' cc in Maine. There are no ethanol free gas anywhere near me including marinas and so I use station gas with ethanol. I have had my injectors cleaned twice over the past 16 years. Fortunately it is very easy to remove and replace the 4 injectors and professionally cleaned with new gaskets $25. each so not too bad. Easy to tell when they need cleaning- starts chugging a little and not full speeds etc. Interestingly I recently stopped at an on the water marina with gas and they said Maine does not currently allow on the seacoast but does at lakes- crazy. They think this may change within a year. Their gas has an additive already in it. I do use sta-bil. Anybody prefer a different treatment additive?


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## Silent Drifter (Apr 29, 2021)

Yamaha Ring Free is all i use ! Good stuff!
1 oz per 10 gallons !


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## Floridangler (5 mo ago)

Brooksard said:


> Alright, carburetor guys I totally get it. Ethanol is tough on the needle and can cause carb damage HOWEVER for the new fuel injected 4 strokes… I don’t see the point in ethanol free gas in them? I know alot of guys do it but is it because it’s ingrained in you or you have a legitimate reason? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just genuinely curious about your reasons.


The newer motors don't like to run on the ethanol. Took about 1 month of sitting and I had ethanol separation. They won't run on the ethanol. Was able to have it corrected easily but will now just run rec fuel through it.


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## Floridangler (5 mo ago)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> No issues just don’t let it sit


Didn't take long for mine to have ethanol separation. Looks like a hazy IPA, the fuel should be clear. Newer motors don't like to run on it. Stick with the Rec90 its so easy to find these days.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Floridangler said:


> Didn't take long for mine to have ethanol separation. Looks like a hazy IPA, the fuel should be clear. Newer motors don't like to run on it. Stick with the Rec90 its so easy to find these days.


How long did it take to look hazy?


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## Floridangler (5 mo ago)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> How long did it take to look hazy?


About 1 month. I use the boat often, this is the longest it ever sat. Had 89 pump gas in it. The process to drain the ethanol was relatively quick and easy but had a professional mechanic do it. First the tank then the engine itself. Once the hazy is removed the fuel is essentially ethanol free gas to my understanding.


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## NealXB2003 (Jun 8, 2020)

I use my boats frequently, but I alternate seasons. Aluminum boat with an f70 in the winter to duck hunt, bass boat with a 250 in the summer to fish. In the off season for each, one boat is usually sitting. With non-e I know I can pull that boat out at any time and go. 

Ethanol has caused me enough headaches with smaller engines that I refuse to use it in anything except my truck now, but I'm especially not going to put it in my boat.


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## Rich11111 (Jun 6, 2018)

I never had problems with my rule of not letting it set for over 4 weeks. If I wasn't going to use the boat for 4 weeks or longer I siphoned the gas into my pickup. Now my rule is Ethanol is for personal consumption and ethanol free is for boat. I just dont want to be bothered with watching a calendar and siphoning any more. Now I notice I don't hit on all cylinders when I drink it at 10%


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## beabra (5 mo ago)

I run an older two stroke and without a doubt, it runs much better on non-ethanol fuel. I have some theories but that was not the question. I just know that the few times, i have had to run gas with ethanol, i can tell a difference. 

a friend of mine just bought a new four stroke tohatsu and was using regular ethanol blend. He motor kept dying at speed and then would run for about 3-4 minuets and die again. His mechanic suggested that he run non-ethanol in it and sure enough, it has not done it since. Again, i have some theories of what was going on but that was not the question. 

In my experience, with both 2 and 4 strokes, they seem to like the non ethanol better. Keep in mind, that these are smaller skiff motors under 50 HP. Bottom line is, as long as i can continue to afford it, I will use non-ethanol.


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## Floridangler (5 mo ago)

Floridangler said:


> About 1 month. I use the boat often, this is the longest it ever sat. Had 89 pump gas in it. The process to drain the ethanol was relatively quick and easy but had a professional mechanic do it. First the tank then the engine itself. Once the hazy is removed the fuel is essentially ethanol free gas to my understanding.


Ended up having to do a fuel pump replacement as well which could have been related to/ a result of the bad ethanol as well.


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

Most of the skiffs that are on this site claim to sip fuel. If you are burning regular gas and saving $1.00 a gallon over the non ethanol fuel I don’t see the big deal. 
I see a lot of post that claim they burn less than 6 gallons a day on the water. That equals a savings of $6.00 a day. 
What is the cost of a legitimate mechanic at an outboard shop. $100.00 plus an hour.
It takes a lot of $6.00 days to pay for one trip to the shop. 

BTW
My Mako can burn an average of 15 to 20 gallons a trip but I look at the extra cost as an actual savings on the headaches and cost of having to get someone to repair it at $100.00 plus per hour.
I also run it in my offshore Grady White that can easily burn 30 gallons in a day.

What is your long term savings.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

We may need that corn we are putting in our gas tanks for food, the way things are going. How about we start drilling for oil again (which would help bring the prices down, duh) and let the farmers grow food instead of crappy fuel?


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