# Poon hooks



## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

for my fellow addicts of the silver king, what is your preferred hook? I find myself out of daiichi 3111 2/0 and I have $100 in bass pro/Cabela’s gift cards from Christmas. I’ve typically tied on the 3111, aki, and c70sd in 2/0&3/0. Thanks!!!


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Mustad c68snp dt 

Tiemco 600sp

Are my favorite with a little owner aki thrown in for good measure mainly on smaller flies.


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## Flats Broke (Feb 7, 2017)

Gamakatsu SL12S and SC17 in 1/0-3/0 depending on the size of the target fish.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Owner ahi, Gama SL12S.....I don't care what a hook costs. Its small change when it comes to investing in a poon. I never want a hook to be the cause for losing a fish (and actually that goes for all my gear).


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

Another vote for Gama Sl12S, some points roll and some hooks break, but you ARE trying to stick them into dinosaur bones. It’s part of the game....


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Varivas 2600V or 2600ST-V are the best combination of crazy strong/sticky sharp/stout tip that I've found.

Any baitfish pattern or tarpon fly I tie has been one one for at least the last year. Before I discovered those I liked the tiemco 600sp but they are known to be brittle/fragile tipped by a few people with a heck of a lot more experience than myself. When you compare the two side by side or take a stone to one and try to ruin the tip there is no comparison in my opinion. 

Money is no object when it comes to hooks/line/leader because I invest a lot more money just getting to the fish. I also fish solo a lot so I'd really hate for my one opportunity that I worked hard for to be ruined by a shit hook.


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## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

Second Varivas


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Got two pro packs of aki in the cart, just wish they had the owner 5180’s. Love those bad boys. I’m surprised at the varivas numbers. Last time I bought them, had too many break. Maybe they’ve upped their game!


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Rick hambric said:


> Got two pro packs of aki in the cart, just wish they had the owner 5180’s. Love those bad boys. I’m surprised at the varivas numbers. Last time I bought them, had too many break. Maybe they’ve upped their game!


That surprises the heck out of me, I've never even bent one and I use them all from size #6 to 2/0.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Wait... I thought we already had this thread.

For what size fish?


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Backwater said:


> Wait... I thought we already had this thread.
> 
> For what size fish?


@Backwater this was my search for everyone's opinion on the tarpon hooks out there now. I think there is an older thread on here about this. im mostly for Oceanside migrating poons. also the owner 5180 hard to find. Orlando outfitters has them in stock for a short while.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Tiemco is dead to me after some breakage issues. I probably have 20 or 30 811s free to a good home if anyone wants to risk it.

I always like the Owner cutting point for poon.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

nativejax said:


> Tiemco is dead to me after some breakage issues. I probably have 20 or 30 811s free to a good home if anyone wants to risk it.
> 
> I always like the Owner cutting point for poon.


Sending you a message -- I can put those hooks to good use. I'll obviously pay shipping, and I'd happily send you a fly back for the trouble if you want.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I quit using the 811s as well (although I never used it for tarpon flies...) also because of breakage... The Tiemco 600sp is a different critter entirely - we've hooked fish up to 150 on those and never a breakage. I should note that some down in the Keys haven't been happy with the 600sp - but I believe that's much more about how fish bite in clear water and the many anglers that can't wait that fraction of a second until the fish closes her mouth and only hang the fish on the outside edge of those jurassic jaws... Where we are in dark water, most of our big fly fish take the big flies we use very deeply and rarely spit before getting bit...

I do still use a great quantity of Owner Aki hooks as well -still buying them by the 1000 per size from 1/0 up to 4/0.... but we're using them for everything that swims when we need a very strong hook (or I'm looking for a bit of extra hook weight in a given pattern....).


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Aki


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

lemaymiami said:


> The Tiemco 600sp is a different critter entirely - we've hooked fish up to 150 on those and never a breakage. I should note that some down in the Keys haven't been happy with the 600sp - but I believe that's much more about how fish bite in clear water and the many anglers that can't wait that fraction of a second until the fish closes her mouth and only hang the fish on the outside edge of those jurassic jaws...
> .


Do you think this is partially based on some of those guys scaling down on hook size to get a better bite ratio? There is a ton of strength difference between a 1/0 600 SP and a size 1 or size 2. 

I had a scenario this summer when I guess I accidentally grabbed a size 1 when I tied a bug and it slipped by me. When I was cinching the knot down with the hook on a metal loop the hook bent. Just a thought. Maybe they dont like that the tip does bend easier that some, but man those hooks are sharp. I think they are the sharpest out there.


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## BK922 (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm a fan of that straight eye owner, that light wire just seems to stick nicely. In a pinch the curved eye one will do, just be aware what it will make your fly do. And while it may bend, I haven't had one break, and its hard to put enough pressure on one to straighten it out of a gheenoe, you just end up pulling the boat to the fish.

http://www.fishermanscoast.com/jetsam/tarpon_hooks.html


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

@BK922, the 5180 is one of my personal favorites for snook/red flies as well as for the poon. even though its a smaller dia wire, ive never had one break. they do penetrate that boney mouth easier.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

At the risk of slightly derailing the thread -- do those of you who use the 5180 straighten it before use? The offset doesn't seem to make a difference for the babies, but I'm wondering if a large tarpon looking at a larger fly in clear water might be turned off by it.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

bryson said:


> At the risk of slightly derailing the thread -- do those of you who use the 5180 straighten it before use? The offset doesn't seem to make a difference for the babies, but I'm wondering if a large tarpon looking at a larger fly in clear water might be turned off by it.


I have a very few times, but 99.99999% of the time, no.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

bryson said:


> At the risk of slightly derailing the thread -- do those of you who use the 5180 straighten it before use? The offset doesn't seem to make a difference for the babies, but I'm wondering if a large tarpon looking at a larger fly in clear water might be turned off by it.


No, I don't recommend straightening it, you'll compromise the metal strength. If you want a straight hook, then go with the Aki 5170. The straight eyed offset "twist" of the 5180 (and slightly thinner wire than the 5170) is what I came up with on my own after many years of trial and error and is what I ended up for beach and flats fishing (an never heard of anyone else using them). The twist or turn of the point of the 5180 "sticks" into whatever as it's sliding out of the poon's mouth. No, it doesn't spook the fish. It's a thin wire hook that's strong enough not to bend, but with that point, and thinner wire to penetrate deeper, quicker, with less effort.

If I am fishing deeper darker water or rivers with big flies or at night around structures or bridge pilings where I need to pour on the heat to the fish and their visibility is less, then I'll go to a 3/0 Aki 5169 (heavier wire but not too heavy) or go to a 4/0 5180 since I need the gap size and the wire on the 4/0 is thicker than the 3/0. I just buy them in *small packs* and use them up as I need them, until I need more from my local source, since I'm not a commercial guide or tier like Capt Bob.

There is no need to use a hook like any of these for snook, reds or most inshore species since they have softer mouths and most other hooks will work for them. But will use them occasionally for cobes and other hard mouth bigger offshore pelagics.

Since it's not silver, it doesn't give away the size of the hook as much as silver colored hooks, unless you are using brightly colored baitfish patterns. So where some guys have gone down to a 1/0 in the Keys with... say dark EP style, toads, etc., I've had no issues with them eating 2/0's in a BC/BN colored hook, unless the fly was just too dang ugly! lol Otherwise, I'm fishing 3/0's on the Gulf coast. Also the SL12S's & SC17's have a rap for breaking, bending and points rolling. Tiemco 600's are good too, but I don't really use them much unless on thredfin/sardine/light colored mullet patterns.

I haven't had that problems with those thinner wire Owners unless you actually let them rust up. Then, you are just rolling the dice. If you properly strip set them the right way, they will stay buttoned up. I've gone whole multi fish seasons with no hooks getting spit out and I've had no hook breakage on fly, but have straighten 2 of the 3/0 on conventional rods (applying more pressure) or when I had to crank up the OB to drag a fish out of the bridge pilings.

With juvenal fish, depending on the targeted size of the fish, I'll use 1/0-2/0 or go to the Mosquito 5177 hooks for the smaller juvi's 5-20lbs in a size #1-1/0. The micros (under 5lbs) I'll typically use a size #2 Mosquito hook. I've also use the Dai Riki's 930 in size #4-2 on the minis and micros.

Not trying to tell anyone what to do, but this is what I use and my experience with them. So it's what I recommend. But, to each their own. 

Ted Haas


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

i think a lot of lower keys guides use the varivas hooks. i don't hook enough tarpon per year to test and have any real answer but my flies are either on varivas or sl12s


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Got tired of searching, went straight to the owner website


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Nice! Shame they don't offer those hooks in a Pro Pack.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

I know. for those of us that cant afford or tie as much as capt. lemay, the best option we have to find these babies is to order direct. I would love to see 50packs of these and aki.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

You can get the Pro Pack of the Aki -- I just ordered one last week for the fly swap. Can't get the Aki Twist, though.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

bryson said:


> You can get the Pro Pack of the Aki -- I just ordered one last week for the fly swap. Can't get the Aki Twist, though.


I’ve always like the 5180 & the daiichi 3111 for the reasons ted said above. They catch on anything when you strip set and it’s much easier for novice or new poon addicts to get a solid hookset.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

^ those hooks are a bit large for most tarpon fishing...


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

jsnipes said:


> ^ those hooks are a bit large for most tarpon fishing...


3/0 5180 for beachside migrating tarpon too big???


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

I've always used 1/0 with guides (occasionally a 1 for palolo flies) in the keys and even in up in tampa area. only time I'd use bigger hooks would be at night or in dark water on a sinking type fly.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Citrus co is as far south as I typically get... mostly bigbend and panhandle then the Georgia coast. 100# average and typically not so clear water.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I am tying up some water pushing whistler flies with phosphorescent paint on the big bead chain eyes. Also Gammi octopus 2/0. Just in case the water in Big Bend is not clear. Like it usually is


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Last summer it was just as clear off st George as it was off Cumberland. (Inject smartass look here) pure chocolate milk.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Rick hambric said:


> Last summer it was just as clear off st George as it was off Cumberland. (Inject smartass look here) pure chocolate milk.


Yep I was there. Ugly


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jsnipes said:


> I've always used 1/0 with guides (occasionally a 1 for palolo flies) in the keys and even in up in tampa area. only time I'd use bigger hooks would be at night or in dark water on a sinking type fly.


No really. Guides dropped to a 1/0 down in the Keys since they use thicker silver hooks and can't get away with a 3/0 or even a 2/0. These 5180's are strong but thinner wire and the black is more stealthy, so you can get away with using them on the Gulf beaches and flats. In the Keys, I'll drop to no smaller than a 2/0 and no need to go smaller on those hooks. They'll eat em.

Love those hooks! With the right strip set, once they stick, they bury themselves and don't come unbutton. I had an entire season once were we never lost a fish due to the fish throwing the hook using those cutting points. Btw, I live on the south side of Tampa Bay and fish from there south to the Glades and occasional the Keys.

At night around the bridges, I use the Aki 5169's or 5170's since they are more stout and sometimes we are cranking the OB to drag a fish out of the pilings. Also in the rivers during the daytime since the water is darker and they help to sink the fly deeper and for both, sometimes I'll go to a 4/0 if I'm tying larger mullet flies.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Remember as well that those heavier tarpon hooks (like the Owner Aki) have other uses besides tying for tarpon... Some times it's very useful to use a heavier hook with a given pattern - not because you need the strength - but the actual weight of the hook will change how a given pattern fishes.... If I'm designing a pattern to fish really shallow then I'll want as light a hook as I can get away with (while trying to have a strong enough hook for what happens after your hook-up...). When tying up patterns that I want to sink a bit - a heavy hook works wonders (all while allowing the pattern to sink without a nose down or tail down attitude...).

I get a kick out of all the published stuff about fly fishing tarpon in the Keys... but it simply doesn't apply when you're river fishing where my standard bugs are not only on heavy 4/0 hooks - but they're six to seven inches long.... When I go to a smaller fly (for fish that are sixty pounds or less -it's the same basic pattern scaled down to around five inches long and on a heavy 2/0 hook... Flies for tarpon are a very regional affair so a lot depends on where you're fishing.... and the actual conditions on the water...


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Amen gents!!! I have a select few on 2/0, but that’s on an aki or daiichi 3111. My typical tarpon fly is on the 5180 in 3/0 and rare 4/0 for big mullet and greenback flies for the Hershey’s water over in Brunswick. I get a kick hearing people say I only tie on a size ______. Patterns and sizes change from area to area. In th redfish fly swap there was flies on hooks from a #4 up to a 1/0. And I bet what everyone turned in works very well in their area. We tie patterns to imitate natural bait most of the time. so size, pattern, and color changes just as the tide moves.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Anyone know the difference between the 5370 and the 5170? I think I've always ended up with the 5370s...? 

Forgot to add on first reply, sometimes I'll use 2600Vs. But like all Varivas hooks the size is wonky. Below is a Aki 5370 above a Varivas same size.


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

rick,you get some dragon tails yet?5180 owner in purple,or tan,white going to be the ticket from st marks to mobile bay this year.the purple should work good in the Gheecee


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

flysalt060 said:


> rick,you get some dragon tails yet?5180 owner in purple,or tan,white going to be the ticket from st marks to mobile bay this year.the purple should work good in the Gheecee


I’m not chasing dragons yet. I’ve got a few purple/black creatures I’m pretty sure they haven’t seen very much. Those things are a last resort for me.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Dragon Tails < Jack Gartside Redfish Worm variant. 

Gartside, the guy who invented the Gurgler, and a $hI7 ton of other awesome stuff.


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Well the fellow who gave us the toad has tied a few up.And shortly they will tried in the keys and homossasa.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

flysalt060 said:


> Well the fellow who gave us the toad has tied a few up.And shortly they will tried in the keys and homossasa.


Never said I wouldn’t, just a last resort.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

We've been on the water the last two nights jumping small (and not so small tarps...) in Biscayne Bay - the urban portion between Miami and Miami Beach. Hooked 8 on Saturday, 6 or 7 last night around bridges and dock lights -most were 30 lbs or less - one at 40 and one screamer that we never saw before or after the bite (it never jumped) -but it did scream off the fly line and nearly 200 yards of backing before I could get fired up and give chase... That fish took us to school and yesterday I had to load new backing and another brand new line on that reel to be able to use it again last night.... 

All of our fish the last two nights were taken on the same pattern (the Night fly) on a 2/0 hook. The hooks we were using are pretty old-fashioned since you have to file them to sharpness - they're the old Mustad 7766. 

Now I have to tie up another supply of them for my next night trip... the next three or four nights the tides will still be just right for that night scene as well, but if I get a daytime booking they won't see me again until the second week of March... I'll have a proper fishing report for the night scene in a day or so - with lots of pics. This time of year both day and night trips can get interesting....


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Anyone know the difference between the Aki 5370 and the 5170? I have looked at their website again, but still no luck figuring it out.


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## Newman (Jan 22, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> Anyone know the difference between the Aki 5370 and the 5170? I have looked at their website again, but still no luck figuring it out.


One is likely the “twist” version: offset, heavier duty, good for live mullet.
The other is the one I use for flies.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> Anyone know the difference between the Aki 5370 and the 5170? I have looked at their website again, but still no luck figuring it out.





Newman said:


> One is likely the “twist” version: offset, heavier duty, good for live mullet.
> The other is the one I use for flies.


I think the "twist" is the 5169, rather than the 5170.

I'm ASSuming (you know what they say...) that the only difference in the 5370 and the 5170 is the package size. My Pro Pack (2/0 Aki, QTY 34) is a 5370-121, and the equivalent Pocket Pack (2/0 Aki, QTY 6) looks to be a 5170-121.

http://www.meltontackle.com/products/owner-aki-hooks.html

^^The info in this link seems to be consistent with Amazon and others.


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## Newman (Jan 22, 2018)

bryson said:


> I think the "twist" is the 5169, rather than the 5170.
> 
> I'm ASSuming (you know what they say...) that the only difference in the 5370 and the 5170 is the package size. My Pro Pack (2/0 Aki, QTY 34) is a 5370-121, and the equivalent Pocket Pack (2/0 Aki, QTY 6) looks to be a 5170-121.
> 
> ...



Wow!!
Good call Bryson!

As if ordering Owners wasn’t already difficult enough, glad they opted to simplify everything and give the same hook 2 different model #s, depending on package size.
At some point I attempted to re-order a Pro-pack of 5/0 Ssw with no “twist”, straight eye, and cutting point.
I gave up after 30mins of frustration, ordered sl12 4/0..


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Newman said:


> Wow!!
> Good call Bryson!
> 
> As if ordering Owners wasn’t already difficult enough, glad they opted to simplify everything and give the same hook 2 different model #s, depending on package size.
> ...


Even more fun are the ones that aren't offered in Pro Packs. I've spent plenty of time trying to find a Pro Pack version of the 5180, and it seems like they just don't offer it for some reason.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

https://www.ownerhooks.com/hooks_by_species_region.html

Look under the flounder. It has the ssw & aki strait &twist. I got tired of trying to find what I needed and just went straight to the source


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

bryson said:


> I think the "twist" is the 5169, rather than the 5170.
> 
> I'm ASSuming (you know what they say...) that the only difference in the 5370 and the 5170 is the package size. My Pro Pack (2/0 Aki, QTY 34) is a 5370-121, and the equivalent Pocket Pack (2/0 Aki, QTY 6) looks to be a 5170-121.
> 
> ...


You are one of those people in school that liked the metric system weren't you, suspect..? Kidding, makes sense now, appreciate the info.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> You are one of those people in school that liked the metric system weren't you, suspect..? Kidding, makes sense now, appreciate the info.


 I thought I had it under control... I'm Bryson, and I like the metric system.


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