# Gheenoe NMZ or Gladesmen



## fishflyhunt

I would like everyone's input on this.

I know I post a lot of things, but we are all very indecisive at times.  :-X

I am really interested in both of these boats.  As mentioned before I will be fishing Biscayne Bay, Flamingo, The Keys, and the Canals.  

I know there are some other options, but these two definitely appeal to me.

The others way a bit more, and these I may tow with the smaller car that I have to drive around in now.

Thanks for everything everyone and hope to hear your comments.

G-MEN are SWEET LOOKING RIDES, and GHEENOES are CHEAPER!!!


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## tguasjr

Gheenoe LT25 all the way! Best bang for the buck.


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## cal1320

Gladesmen!!!  But I'm biased. 
[smiley=popcorn2.gif]


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## tom_in_orl

> Gheenoe LT25 all the way! Best bang for the buck.


Wrong boat  ;D


Seriously, Nothing against the Gladesmen. I know a couple people on this forum that are very happy with that boat but you can buy a used Custom Gheenoe NMZ hull for around $1000. A new one for around $1500. Thats so freakin cheap for a cool little boat. With the NMZ you will have no problem selling it in the used market if you keep it close to stock.

Another thing to consider is that ECC just posted that they making changes to the Gladesmen. You may want to research this and find out if you like the changes or not. It may also change resale values (up or down) for the used hulls. 

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1262705120



> I'll be having one on my G-man when the tooling/changes are done to the G-man...


BTW, Gheenoe and Custom Gheenoe post their prices right on their websites. Not sure why ECC doesn't so I can not comment on the price of that Gladesmen other than to say that is a strange business practice. Maybe just an oversight or something that they are doing while they make changes.


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## Flyline

I have a 15.4 gheenoe highsider and I love it because I can take it anywhere I want. It's great poling skiff for the money and easily customized. There's no way I'm going to sell it because I have great luck catching all the fish from the highsider. It's very very stable when u stand on the rear deck and pole on the flats. The gheenoe NMZ or highsider can access anywhere in shallowest, narrow backcountry where other small microskiff can't go! Except the gladesmen.


I like the ECC G-man ....it's a beautiful boat, rides great in chop, poles extremely shallow, more room to spare, low horsepower 5-15hp easily get up on plane with trim tabs..... one thing I don't really like about the gladesmen is tippy! Felt like I'm standing on the log in the water and balance myself a lot more.

BUT I'm going to keep the gheenoe highsider and keep on EYE on next generation ECC Gladesmen or "Fennoe"?... ;D


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## rkmurphy

I've been on a Caimen and Lostmen. SWEET boats. Great fit and finish, super skinny, pole great, DRY ride.

I've seen a couple Gladesmen's in person and the fit and finish is the same in that it's top notch. Very long and narrow. Supposedly, they track very well and float in spit (3-4") but are very tippy.

I had a 15'4" Highsider I was going to redo. Very tippy (to me at least...but I'm used to a J16) as well. NMZ's will track just as well than a Gladesmen, to my knowledge.

Gladesmen is supposedly a very dry ride and "knifes" through chop. Also, ECC makes spray rails for the Gladesmen that are supposed to make it even drier. 

For a 2 person boat and someone who has the means, I'd go with a Gladesmen. If you're on a tight budget, go with the NMZ. Both sweet boats.

Limited experience but still kind of hear-say. I hope it was somewhat helpful, though.


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## Flyline

> I would like everyone's input on this.
> 
> I know I post a lot of things, but we are all very indecisive at times. :-X
> 
> I am really interested in both of these boats. As mentioned before I will be fishing Biscayne Bay, Flamingo, The Keys, and the Canals.
> 
> I know there are some other options, but these two definitely appeal to me.
> 
> The others way a bit more, and these I may tow with the smaller car that I have to drive around in now.
> 
> Thanks for everything everyone and hope to hear your comments.
> 
> G-MEN are SWEET LOOKING RIDES, and GHEENOES are CHEAPER!!!



One more thing.....PM skinnydippin.

He has a gheenoe NMZ highsider and fished in Biscayne bay, Flamingo, and canals alot for bones.

He will give u a ride if u like to.


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## fishflyhunt

I would like to see the outcome of this.

Vote for the actual skiff, and then for each feature pro.


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## paint it black

Out of these two, I'd say Gladesmen!


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## fishflyhunt

Cosmetically speaking...this boat takes a lot of it










I am not trying to knock off the...










They are both SWEET LOOKING BOATS...

The thing that appeals the most is the look of an actual skiff on a Gladesmen...

Then again, as I mentioned before..I like both boats and I am not knocking any of them off..I am just saying cosmetically speaking that one looks different and a bit more appealing..

Takes welcome


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## dacuban1

If i had allot of money-gladesmen
I dont so- NMZ all the way

NMZ can accomplish what a gladesmen does for less than 1/2 the price. even though gladesmen are perty.
id rather beef up my fishing gear. I mean what other boat can you get for less than $5000- NEW- boat, motor, trailer 

either way those two are great choices.


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## fishflyhunt

There are so many options including Natives, Copperheads, Gheenoes and ECC...

It is a very tough choice.

Is anyone located in Miami with either a Copperhead, Native, or GMEN?

I have been on an NMZ and it was great.  Not wet at all, except when we had a little mishap on a wave and then thats when we got wet, but other than that...NOTHING AT ALL!!!  POLES EFFORTLESSLY!!

Thanks guys.  I should be getting something soon!

The 10K is available and if I dont spend it all on the boat, then I only get what the value of the boat is..I can not get 5K for the boat, and the rest for gear. It is the value of the boat "rigged up"


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## rkmurphy

Go with a Copperhead, if you can. I didn't know that was a choice...but since it is. Go for it! I vote CH or G-men.


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## gnuraider

I can only recommend what I know...Gheenoe. From value, customer service, stability I don't think you can go wrong.

Can't argue that the Gladesman is a pretty boat...there are alot of pretty boats out there and they all cost what they cost. Gheenoe gets the job done - more with less and more for less in my opinion. What did Forrest Gump say about pretty?

Dave


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## fishflyhunt

Copperhead is somewhat in there.

If I can get a little truck again, I will get a bigger boat. The copperhead just weighs more, and the engine would be bigger. It is a sweet looking ride, but it all depends.  

I rather have the little boat and stick with the same car, as opposed to a truck with no boat. :-/


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## East_Cape

You need to go to each factory ( which can be done in a day since both are close to each other ) and try them both out...
You'll surprise yourself with what you thought vs. actual

There's major diffrences from both and then some not so different. I can honestly give the plus vs. minus on the G-man as I'm the designer,builder, and company owner.
If you want the lowdown, I'd be glad to give it to you.
Kevin


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## Flyline

This is Microskiff NMZ highsider project with 2 guys sitting on it no plm.












This is my old gheenoe NMZ with me standing on the rear deck no plm at all. I weight around 235 lbs.


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## hoser3

I would go with the NMZ by far Less cost involved, You can make any Mod you can think of. Easy to store in a garage, Engine size from Elec to Gas up to 15 hp. Poles easy, paddles easy, Can be car topped and launched any where. I have fished out of both and my 2 cents says the NMZ is more stable. I own a 15'4 Highsider and would not ever sell.


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## East_Cape

Sad the pole became about brand vs. brand...rather than model vs. model


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## cal1320

I didnt see dry ride listed on the poll


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## iMacattack

I'm confused on this poll (not pole). What are you asking people to vote on? Are the voters supposed to chose both brands and select the positive they feel each exhibit? Do they only select one brand and select the item they feel is best? I don't feel the poll will accurately show the positives/negatives for each model. This could turn into an ugly popularity contest and thus have no true scientific results.

Example:

If I voted NMZ on Stability but GMan on Resale Value... what would you gain from it? You are allowing folks to vote on every option so I'm very confused. 

On a side note I have to say for the majority of the posts here the positives/negatives for each model have been very good. I appreciate everyone posting in a positive tone. 

Cheers
Capt. Jan

P.S. test ride, test ride, test ride!!!


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## gheenoe

> You need to go to each factory ( which can be done in a day since both are close to each other ) and try them both out...
> You'll surprise yourself with what you thought vs. actual.





> Sad the *pole* became about brand vs. brand...rather than model vs. model


 :


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## East_Cape

Sorry Capt. Jan. Meant to type "pole" instead of poll...


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## aaronshore

I agree with Jan. Flawed poll. I checked every box and hit submit, and it took it. LOL


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## HighSide25

they both suck. get a grizzly jon boat.


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## Guest

*Need I say more about stability?*


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## skinny_water

nice pic


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## tom_in_orl

Oh this fun!!!! I get to respond to Kevin and Jan in one shot  [smiley=1-biggrin.gif]



> Sad the pole became about brand vs. brand...rather than model vs. model


Kevin, I mean this respectfully. You and Mark deserve a lot of credit for the success you have over at ECC. I want to acknowledge that before I say.

*LIGHTEN UP*

We are having fun don't make more out of it then is there. Honestly, a majority of the feedback is constructive and positive for both the NMZ and the Gladesmen. I really don't think there are many here who have a bad thing to say about the Gladesman or ECC. Lose the paranoia and say more positive things about your boat. We enjoy it when you are enthusiastic. And in the end its a win win for both.



> I'm confused


I should stop there because that is funny  ;D ;D 


but......



> What are you asking people to vote on? Are the voters supposed to chose both brands and select the positive they feel each exhibit? Do they only select one brand and select the item they feel is best? I don't feel the poll will accurately show the positives/negatives for each model. This could turn into an ugly popularity contest and thus have no true scientific results.


Scientific???? 

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k[/media]

Who cares! So it has the value of a teen magazine fashion pole (poll    ). I doesn't need to be worded like a constitutional amendment on a state ballot. No one is going to get hurt. Its only another Ford vs Chevy or better yet Mustang vs Camaro debate. End of the day both are fine and we should recognize we enthusiasts with similar tastes. Besides not enough of us are smart enough to hold a lasting intelligent conversation.  ;D




> P.S. test ride, test ride, test ride!!!


Smartest thing anyone has said so far  



> I agree with Jan. Flawed poll. I checked every box and hit submit, and it took it. LOL


Trouble maker  ;D


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## fishflyhunt

Thank you all for your posts.  I did not mean for this to become a heated debate.  

As it was stated, this is another Mustang vs Camaro debate.  They are both awesome, and each one has its enthusiasts and will talk down the other a bit.  

In regards to the poll.  When you select to start to the poll, it does not allow much.   At the end what is important is how many people clicked what area and what boat.  They are sub listed in a category and the colors distinguish which is which.  I figured it would be pretty simple to understand that you select the boat which you prefer, and then under the name of the boat you select which one meets those needs.  Example:  Selected GMEN as boat, but you can select the maneuverability of the Gheenoe.  It is not that difficult guys  ;D

I do not know some of the guys that posted therefore, I will keep my comments without being typed as I do not want to make this lag any further than what it already has.

Thanks again everyone.  I appreciate your responses.

I will be gong to visit both comps soon and then decide what I am going to do.

Any one selling a little truck?


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## iMacattack

> As it was stated, this is another Mustang vs Camaro debate.


Thus my comment. This topic has a lot of positive points for both skiffs. Test ride then decide. Finally come back and let us know what YOU thought, because in the end that is what is most important when your the one footing the bill. 

Cheers
Capt. Jan

P.S. I'm sure a lot of folks won't touch that poll with a 10 foot pole... ;D


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## East_Cape

> Oh this fun!!!! I get to respond to Kevin and Jan in one shot  [smiley=1-biggrin.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sad the pole became about brand vs. brand...rather than model vs. model
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin, I mean this respectfully. You and Mark deserve a lot of credit for the success you have over at ECC. I want to acknowledge that before I say.
> 
> *LIGHTEN UP*
> 
> We are having fun don't make more out of it then is there. Honestly, a majority of the feedback is constructive and positive for both the NMZ and the Gladesmen. I really don't think there are many here who have a bad thing to say about the Gladesman or ECC. Lose the paranoia and say more positive things about your boat. We enjoy it when you are enthusiastic. And in the end its a win win for both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm confused
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I should stop there because that is funny  ;D ;D
> 
> 
> but......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you asking people to vote on? Are the voters supposed to chose both brands and select the positive they feel each exhibit? Do they only select one brand and select the item they feel is best? I don't feel the poll will accurately show the positives/negatives for each model. This could turn into an ugly popularity contest and thus have no true scientific results.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scientific????
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k[/media]
> 
> Who cares! So it has the value of a teen magazine fashion pole (poll    ). I doesn't need to be worded like a constitutional amendment on a state ballot. No one is going to get hurt. Its only another Ford vs Chevy or better yet Mustang vs Camaro debate. End of the day both are fine and we should recognize we enthusiasts with similar tastes. Besides not enough of us are smart enough to hold a lasting intelligent conversation.  ;D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. test ride, test ride, test ride!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smartest thing anyone has said so far
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Jan. Flawed poll. I checked every box and hit submit, and it took it. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trouble maker  ;D
Click to expand...


Tom,
Trust me when I say this...
I am "lightened up"...in fact I think it's funny. However, when the G-man is done let's put the same motor/load/peeps/gear on ours and a Gheen NMZ and I think the data will speak for itself in terms of draft,speed,ride etc...
I'm speaking as a angler,designer, owner of a skiff company and lastly as a relaxed dude having a beer getting ready to watch some football.
p.s. Hope the "pole" continues...LMAO
Later


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## JRH

Been in both. 
Would never purchase either. 
So I voted for everything in this pole [sic].


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## fishflyhunt

I am about to just go a purchase my self a GOOD looking...











add a little










and I should be good to go...

I mean, if i ever want to do a little...










with the girlfriend...It can be done..

I will almost always be fishing alone anyway...

CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!!

Canoe 480
Engine 815
Other accessories $400

What more can you ask for?  All that good stuff for 1,695.00

Let's me hit up most flats that I know of anyway...Not a bad idea...

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Guest

Deleted!


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## Jacbo

^Oh Indian River Canoe...
Yeah I got one of those, only difference is I paid $12 for mine! ;D

I hope your kidding about this one.

Maybe you can make it sweet... just hope your balance is good.


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## JRyanL

I am not going to submit a vote because I haven't been in either boat. I do own Gheenoes though and they are great. I personally would rock a NMZ over a Gladesman. Money vs value, I think the NMZ has it made. BUT there is no doubt if I was putting up the money for a Super vs. a Caimen, I would think twice about my deicsion to rock the Caimen. Just my $.02

The Indian River comment is laughable...I don't think anyone who has ever been in an ECC or Gheenoe could possibly find it comparable to a flat back canoe.


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## turbofly

> Example:
> 
> If I voted NMZ on Stability but GMan on Resale Value... what would you gain from it? You are allowing folks to vote on every option so I'm very confused.


All I know is my friend paid 13,000 for his gladsman a year and a half ago. I see them for sale now for 6-7k. These things have the resale value of a cadillac. Gheenoes on other hand sell for almost what you paid if you got it new, if you bought used you can get it all back.


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## iMacattack

I was using the comparison as an example.


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## aaronshore

> I was using the comparison as an example.


Don't beat yourself up Jan. Some people (in the excitement) tend to over look the small importaint words........like "if". ;D


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## turbofly

> I was using the comparison as an example.


Sorry about that Jan



> Don't beat yourself up Jan. Some people (in the excitement) tend to over look the small importaint words........like "if". ;D


Excited No Tired Yes, Just another one of my precoffee retarted statments. 

But actually you can't go wrong with either one they both are badass boats. If you dont test both your making a big mistake. If you can make it to Tampa I can get you a ride on both same day. However I dont have a NMZ its a Classic.


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## costefishnt

lol. This is my favorite topic.
Gheenoe vs ecc.

all your boat needs are belong to Gheenoe.

;D


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## Jay_Garrid

I'm in the market for a micro too. A friend bought an east cape, and told he he regreted it. He had lots of problems with structural cracks, and instability. I wasn't too impressed with it either. 
Few days ago I went out on a Gheenoe LT25 (?) and it blew me away. I'm ordering one!


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## tom_in_orl

> I'm in the market for a micro too. A friend bought an east cape, and told he he regreted it. He had lots of problems with structural cracks, and instability. I wasn't too impressed with it either.
> Few days ago I went out on a Gheenoe LT25 (?) and it blew me away. I'm ordering one!


1 st post? Not much credibility there.  :-?

This is a constructive site. We pride our selfs on having a forum that contains legitimate information. How about some pictures or other proof before throwing around those types comments.


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## East_Cape

> I'm in the market for a micro too. A friend bought an east cape, and told he he regreted it. He had lots of problems with structural cracks, and instability. I wasn't too impressed with it either.
> Few days ago I went out on a Gheenoe LT25 (?) and it blew me away. I'm ordering one!



I'm sure that boat is used and if there was a problem please know any builder ( including myself ) would take care of any problems...
P.S. all boats have issues and if you don't think that, then your a newbie to owning a boat. 
Also know I cant help someone if they buy a skiff and realize afterwards it's not for them. Again, I'd love to know who your friend is and what boat he has?
Kevin


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## Un-shore

Mustang is the original pony car!


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## Flyline

> I'm in the market for a micro too. A friend bought an east cape, and told he he regreted it. He had lots of problems with structural cracks, and instability. I wasn't too impressed with it either.
> Few days ago I went out on a Gheenoe LT25 (?) and it blew me away. I'm ordering one!


That's full of crap.

ECC builds a great skiffs and their contruction is second to none!

I'm sure your friend beat the crap out of the gladesmen and didn't take good care of it.

We had our own problems in any skiff we own. It's depend how well you take care of your skiff.

It's not because how the boat builder builds it.

It's how you treat your boat....

You don't take care of it then u break it.

If u take care and treat your skiff like a baby then your boat will outlast your lifetime.


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## Jay_Garrid

Newbie? Don't be ridiculous. I've had skiffs even before you were still paddling kayaks.
His name is Fernando (don't know last) and he drives a green range rover. His boat was new (Gladesmen), and he wanted it exchanged, and he said you offered to repair instead.


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## East_Cape

That name doesn't ring a bell on who he is but I'm sure if he had a problem we took care of it or offered a great solution/option to make it perfect. Glad to know your not a newbie but I wasn't talking about you directly.
Also glad to know your older than I am...
Tell Moses & Jesus I said Hi. ;D


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## beavis

> That's full of crap.
> 
> ECC builds a great skiffs and their contruction is second to none!
> 
> I'm sure your friend beat the crap out of the gladesmen and didn't take good care of it.
> 
> We had our own problems in any skiff we own.  It's depend how well you take care of your skiff.
> 
> It's not because how the  boat builder builds it.
> 
> It's how you treat your boat....
> 
> You don't take care of it then u break it.
> 
> If u take care and treat your skiff like a baby then your boat will outlast your lifetime.



i beg to differ on that


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## fishflyhunt

Why is that?  Please elaborate


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## tom_in_orl

Google beavis and gladesman. Add a third criteria like dislike, problem, etc. Its not hard to find.

http://forums.shallowwaterangler.com/forum/shallow-water-boats/east-cape-canoes-0?page=1



> No Marc, I have no need to call you. I have nothing to get off my chest. Despite everyone raving about ecc's boats, mine sucked. It is my opinion. Great design, but I had to fix a lot of stuff on it. I can see why the guy who owns it has no complaints, I fixed them all. Some quite serious. I got tired of what was I going to have to fix next. Color? Never had a problem with that. Issues with Kevin, no, I just disassociated myself with him because he never did anything he said.


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## Flyline

> That's full of crap.
> 
> ECC builds a great skiffs and their contruction is second to none!
> 
> I'm sure your friend beat the crap out of the gladesmen and didn't take good care of it.
> 
> We had our own problems in any skiff we own. It's depend how well you take care of your skiff.
> 
> It's not because how the boat builder builds it.
> 
> It's how you treat your boat....
> 
> You don't take care of it then u break it.
> 
> If u take care and treat your skiff like a baby then your boat will outlast your lifetime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i beg to differ on that
Click to expand...

I forgot about your gladesmen..I gotcha now. I'll keep my mouth shut then...;D


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## hoser3

This form turned into more than need So much for a little fun. :-X :-X :-X


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## rkmurphy

Yeah this is a little out of hand.

My mother drives a late model 4 cyl Toyota Camry which, I believe, was voted the most reliable or one of the most reliable vehicles on the road.

About 2 months ago, she took the car in because she had noticed smoke coming from the exhaust at every startup, getting progressively worse. Turned out to be a leaky valve gasket or piston rings going bad (forget exactly). Either way, it was pretty major and was a couple thousand dollar ordeal. Luckily, she had an extended warranty.

The point is, a company will never be able to keep perfect consistency. Every product, especially a boat, has its quirks, some more than others. Consistent quirks are one thing but, one bad product and/or experience out of 1000 good ones should tell the customer something. This goes for ECC and Custom Gheenoe.

Let's get back on track...this thread was about helping a specific forum member out with his decision, not bringing up past disputes that went un-resolved.


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## HighSide25

i cracked a gheenoe highsider in half. that was gheenoes fault. not the 25 mercury or 4 foot seas or two dive tanks. obviously gheenoe doesnt know how to make a badd as$ boat :

put it simple.

both boats will fish the same areas. period.
both boats are wet. period.
both are tippy, ECC is a little more.
both are shallow. ECC is a little more

one is expensive w/o the options, but looks amazing
one can get expensive with all the options, but still looks like your grandpa's boat from 1975.

take a ride on both and check the prices out and look on different classified sections and look at how well they resell for( resale value). there is a market for both of them, even though both of them will catch you the same fish.

end of story


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## B.Lee

Damn, only 4 pages to get to the point!


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## okchris

i agree with Chasing Tail...both are great for what they are designed for. Oh, and my nmz does sort of look like grandpas boat, but i still rock it with pride. And if I was fortunate enough to own a Gladesman, I would rock that with pride as well


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## Guest

> Google beavis and gladesman. Add a third criteria like dislike, problem, etc. Its not hard to find.
> 
> http://forums.shallowwaterangler.com/forum/shallow-water-boats/east-cape-canoes-0?page=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Marc, I have no need to call you. I have nothing to get off my chest. Despite everyone raving about ecc's boats, mine sucked. It is my opinion. Great design, but I had to fix a lot of stuff on it. I can see why the guy who owns it has no complaints, I fixed them all. Some quite serious. I got tired of what was I going to have to fix next. Color? Never had a problem with that. Issues with Kevin, no, I just disassociated myself with him because he never did anything he said.
Click to expand...


Tom,

If you are going to quote "the bad" why not the eight or so threads "RJbeavis" posted on the ECC forum which all seem super positive about the Gladsmen he bought. I don't know most of the story and I really don't care, but one has to look at all the facts.


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## Guest

The only "right" answer is COST! The Gheenoe NMZ is like a "blue collar" flats boat where it lets the average man with a small "average" budget able to fish side by side with the "other" man who's boat costs the same as some houses. This is why more and more flats boat/skiff manufactures are building nicer and nicer skiffs at a cost the the masses or "average man can afford.


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## beavis

all the facts are correct. look at the dates. I wasted 15,000 dollars (b,m,t) and after 6 months of use I had too fix a lot amount of stuff on it.

yes I did like the boat in terms of its fishability, but having to repair it constantly gets old quick. didn't post much about all the repairs because of the paranoia factor and quit contributing to that forum long ago.


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## Guest

> The only "right" answer is COST! The Gheenoe NMZ is like a "blue collar" flats boat where it lets the average man with a small "average" budget be able to fish just like the "other" man who's boat costs the same as some houses. This is why more and more flats boat/skiff manufactures are building nicer and nicer skiffs at a cost that the masses or "average man can afford and $10,000 or under looks like the magic number in this economy.




Sorry, but I can't re-size the text as I didn't realize it was that big.


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## East_Cape

> all the facts are correct. look at the dates.  I wasted 15,000 dollars (b,m,t) and after 6 months of use I had too fix a lot amount of stuff on it.
> 
> yes I did like the boat in terms of its fishability, but having to repair it constantly gets old quick. didn't post much about all the repairs because of the paranoia factor and quit contributing to that forum long ago.



Not true.
All the stuff you had a problem with is stuff we didn't install... I even walked up to you at the fly fishing film tour and said "no worry" on the bikering and you look at me and we did a handshake and say it's no big deal but you still talk trash....the problem is you man! The skiff is still on the water serving the need of the owner and will continue for a long time. Lastly, we can't fix anything if you don't give us the chance...

Your leaks were from a jack-plate with no 5200 etc...
Again, WE didn't install this so if you had any "problems" it was on your end...
And when I caught wind of you having a problem you took it elsewhere without our blessing so hell no I'm not gonna support somebody that won't let us do the right thing. I hear your a good guy nowadays, and the RJ I remember was...
This current RJ is a, well...I won't even write it. Truth hurts RJ huh? 
Two sides to every story and the truth but I'll be damn i'll let you wrtie what you think is write when we both no there's more to the story.
tight lines
kevin

p.s. let's go 8 pages ;D


----------



## beavis

classic, 

can't defend the issues but can try and attack my character


----------



## East_Cape

> classic,
> 
> can't defend the issues but can try and attack my character


classic?
classic is blaming the builder or the boat for the guy that made many mods to his skiff and didn't seal all the holes he put in them...that's classic. 
or when you sold the boat the guy brought it to our shop where we spent hours taking stuff off a skiff we didn't put on only to seal it and make it right, thats classic...
the only issue you have is your floor and you didn't even tell us. i heard about it from a guy that was skiff shopping and he went by the "other" place at that time only to find the owner of that shop using it as a sales tool for his skiffs...
however, the classic part was when the guy still bought a skiff from us as he knew that wasn't right.

or how about a "classic" moment when you tell a guy all is good and forgotten and no worries but still cries about something 4yrs ago....thats classic.

Can we go another 4 yrs RJ of your classic momments?


----------



## beavis

someone was asking about a boat and I have a negative opinion about it vs all the other positive stuff people post. you can't handle it. 

c'mon, hours taking off stuff I added. you need to hire better workers if it takes them hours to remove a jackplate and a poling platform ;D

you forgot to mention that when you found out about it being at Gordon boatworks, that you called me like a dozen times in 2 hours trying to find out why it was there. 

it was MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY boat

like I cared where he stored it as long it got fixed

:cuethepsychoexgirlfriendmusic:

crying, ;D , I was happy as hell when I got rid of that POS


----------



## Guest

> all the facts are correct. look at the dates.  I wasted 15,000 dollars (b,m,t) and after 6 months of use I had too fix a lot amount of stuff on it.
> 
> yes I did like the boat in terms of its fishability, but having to repair it constantly gets old quick. didn't post much about all the repairs because of the paranoia factor and quit contributing to that forum long ago.




Now we have Drama!


The only thing I know is what I have read from various forums. Pictures that have been deleted, but still can be found on the server forever! LOL All I know is you have gone from a Gladsmen to a Panga Skiff. Both those boats have very different niches when it comes to fishing and are 180 degrees from each other. When you owned the Gladsmen you posted that you were going to take it offshore a few miles because "the hull design could handle it". That idea probably didn't go so well and now you have a Panga Skiff which lets just say fits "your" needs better then the other. Sounds to me like all this ***** might be a combination of "problems" and "limitations" you had with the Gladesmen. That Panga Skiff you have now is very nice(I want one of those too). It has very few "limitations"and can be fished on the flats or offshore, but I would suspect that it does not do any one of them great. It will always be a give and take since most of us can't own a different boat for every single type of fishing we would like to do. Also, just to let you know this is also just my opinion and I could be just talking out of my ***** and have all of this completely wrong!

Not trying to get into an argument with you or anyone, I guess I'm feeling like Judge Judy and just trying to get to all the facts since I know you have a lot of friends on this site. ;D

If someone gave me a Hell's Bay Guide I would sell it ASAP and buy a Panga Skiff 18', Gladesmen/Gheenoe and a 22' Bass Pro 22' party barge with a custom camping enclosure, but that's just me and I like to cover as many "niches" as possible.


----------



## beavis

no that boat did not limit me. As soon as I rode in it, I knew it would never go offshore. The only time it even came close I guess was the one morning I ran from east cape beach to shark river in the gulf and that was in a flat sea. 
I have liked the pangas for years and had a chance to buy a decent one right at the same time I bought the gladesmen for a third of the price. I just wanted a plain tiller panga and at the time only panga.com was making a 14 and supposedly were coming out with a 17. That never happened and then I saw pangamarine was doing a basic 18 skiff and I had one of the very first ones.


----------



## pole_position

Hey I thought I clicked on microskiff not Fl. sportsman! :-X


----------



## Flyline

Is it over yet??? ;D ;D ;D

RJ and Kevin,

Lighten up!.....This is getting old. : 

Can we just get along and move on? 

But it was a fun thread! ;D ;D


----------



## fishflyhunt

Seriously.  It all started out with which boat would I benefit from the most in my area.   It then turned into a critic session, followed by someone starting to call out the other.

Just drop it already.  Every boat, car, woman, just about everything has its problems!  You will never find that and I know it.  

I just wanted your guys take on what the boats offered and what your takes were.

By all means, it is fun as heck watching you guys go at it back and forth  

Just get over it already.  You all have your takes, and just forget about who did this and that.  

Just don't go writing something on one site, and then go and put something up on another.  That's not professional at all.  

Thanks guys.  I appreciate the ones that told me to go see the boats, and to actually wet test the boats.

My decision is somewhat made, and it is for other reasons than just the forum and wet test.   :-X

If you want the business, be on top of it!!!  

Like I said though, if you want to keep on, by all means CONTINUE!!! It is interesting. ;D ;D ;D ;D


----------



## Flyline

Please lock up the thread!!

Fish Hunter already made up his mind...

The case is over.


----------



## fishflyhunt

No no no. Hold on a minute Mr. The case is not over.

My decision is somewhat made, and I have an inclination towards one end. Therefore, there is still room for the other.

From personal experience from the past couple of days with many different issues, I am inclined towards a specific company but that does not mean that all the test are completed and my mind is made up.

Plus, I like the information being provided.


----------



## admin

Microskiff.com is not in favor of censoring any particular subject. Even this one other than to say we encourage civil and constructive discussions.

All posts express the views of the author of the post, and not those of Microskiff.com, or Microskiff Inc. 

Review our Terms of use policy:

FAQ & User Registration Agreement



> *User Registration Agreement* - Updated 06/15/2007
> 
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Management


----------



## Flyline

> No no no. Hold on a minute Mr. The case is not over.
> 
> My decision is somewhat made, and I have an inclination towards one end. Therefore, there is still room for the other.
> 
> From personal experience from the past couple of days with many different issues, I am inclined towards a specific company but that does not mean that all the test are completed and my mind is made up.
> 
> Plus, I like the information being provided.


My best suggustion is go to the custom gheenoe shop and talk with the owner named Pugar and work through with the gheenoes with him. He is a great guy and friendly.

And then go to East Cape Canoes shop and talk with Kevin and Marc. They are great people and do anything u need to get on the water.

They are great people to talk with and they stand behind their skiffs and customer service.

Personally.....just don't listen to the thread and find out for yourself when u get there with them.

My 2 cents...


----------



## Un-shore

I don't know much about the GM, and not much about the NMZ. I have a 13' HS and it is plenty stable and shallow so the NMZ must be about the same.

But for the cost factor alone you could try the NMZ first and sell it later if you want the GM and get most your money back.

If you got the scratch for a GM, get it and don't look back.

My 2 cents


----------



## fishflyhunt

Thank you very much to the Moderator, and as well to Whitesnooky. I appreciate your last response.

Therefore, continue with the information about the boats.

This was about model vs model, not company vs company, nor experience vs experience. As I previously stated, everything is bound to mess up at one point. I understand that, but what I really want to know is what boat will do the job better than the other.

With all that said....I will open the floor for the following. Does any one have any other recommendations for other boats besides the Gladesmen or Gheenoe?

There is a nice Terrapin for sale. :


----------



## Un-shore

I think a better comparison would have been GM and an LT 25.

LT 25 for me.


----------



## iMacattack

To help the forum and your self please honestly answer the following.

1. Budget (not "cheap" or between 1K-20K, an honest this is how much I have to spend plus or minus 10%)
2. Where do you fish 90% of the time
3. how do you fish 90% of the time (alone or with others, fly or spinning, artificial or live bait etc.)
4. what do you fish for 90% of the time (snook, reds, bone, tarpon, bass, specks, tuna, walleye)
5. how far is it to you 90% fishing area? (short paddle or 100 mile run)

Be as specific as possible. The better the information you give, the better you'll get back.

Capt. Jan


----------



## fishflyhunt

The thing with the NMZ and Gheenoes in general is that they are a lot less money than a GMEN

You can trick out whatever Gheenoe and not even spend all the money on a Gmen, but then you lose the little platform, and the casting area up front.  Yes, you can jain all that back with a LT25, but the GMEN kicks butt in cosmetics.  In my opinion which obviously plays some sort of a role.  

Also, I would not deck out my Gheenoe up to 12 K because that's a lot for those boats especially when I can get a decent flats boat for that price.

Like I said, I am not here to knock anyone at all, I am just stating my thoughts at the moment.  

I think the GMEN is worth the money as I love cosmetics and I am willing to pay more money to be happy with the looks of my boat than to be stuck with something I don't find appealing. The attraction needs to be there. I am somewhat superficial on boats.

I love GMEN looks, and the cost of a Gheenoe.


----------



## Flyline

> I think a better comparison would have been GM and an LT 25.
> 
> LT 25 for me.


You see? That's his opinion and I respect his.

My own opinion for myself is

I like to fish solo or 2 person skiff with cooler, fishing gear, and etc.

I fished in shallow tidal creeks, spring rivers, lagoons, intercoastal, and lakes.

I like my skiff to draft no more than 4 inches of water to access anywhere.

I curently own a 15.4 gheneoe highsider and it's a great boat for what it is but I need more room and draft shallower.

After been a long homework for myself, I dropped the gheenoe LT25, copperhead, SUV, and caimen.

My plain is next skiff will be narrow, float very shallow, long, low hp requirement is the ECC gladesmen that I'm going to keep on eye on it.

My plan is to keep the gheenoe highsider with 2hp 4-stroke tohatsu for pond hopping and shallow twisty creeks fulled with logs.

And plan to purchase a ECC gladesmen (the new model 2010 verison) in near future if my wife allows me.

That's my opinon so respect mine and I'll respect yours.

No debate or blah blah...that's it.


----------



## fishflyhunt

> To help the forum and your self please honestly answer the following.
> 
> 1. Budget (not "cheap" or between 1K-20K, an honest this is how much I have to spend plus or minus 10%)
> 2. Where do you fish 90% of the time
> 3. how do you fish 90% of the time (alone or with others, fly or spinning, artificial or live bait etc.)
> 4. what do you fish for 90% of the time (snook, reds, bone, tarpon, bass, specks, tuna, walleye)
> 5. how far is it to you 90% fishing area? (short paddle or 100 mile run)
> 
> Be as specific as possible. The better the information you give, the better you'll get back.
> 
> Capt. Jan


Thank you for posting this up. I will give you the answers you requested.  

1.   My budget is between 8K and 13K (the best bang for the buck)  
2. 90% of the time I will spend it in Biscayne Bay
3.  I usually fish alone, occasionally two people including myself.  I primarily fish spinning but now that my shoulder is  better I will be doing a lot of Fly fishing.  I use both bait styles evenly.    Although artificial will soon be kicking it up a notch.
4. I will be targeting bones, permit, snook, and tarpon (not set on that)  I will occasionally take trips to Mingo to fish for reds.  
5.  Some areas are 1/2 a mile a way from my ramp, some can be as far as 20 miles.   Primarily 1-10 run around.  

Thank you and if you have any more questions or need any more info let me know.  Thanks


----------



## cal1320

> I think a better comparison would have been GM and an LT 25.
> 
> LT 25 for me.


My opinion:
I don't think the LT 25 is a good comarison to the GM.
I don't think 90% of the Gladesmens are a good comparison to the NMZ.
Most GM are loaded up with platforms, trim tabs, electric start engines, etc. It's nice but not what they were originally intended for IMHO. This should have been a simple look at 2 boats. An NMZ and a Lodge Gladesmen. Simple stripped out hulls with NO power. Paddle or pole them and compare.


----------



## Brett

> As mentioned before I will be fishing Biscayne Bay, Flamingo, The Keys, and the Canals.


Both hulls would not be in my list of possible purchases.
35 plus years on those waters taught me that safety and comfort
should be your primary objectives in this decision.
A larger hull with more room, greater weight, storage capacity
will provide you with a more enjoyable time on the water.
Also, the larger hull will allow you to get offshore on calm days
and diving the reefs in the summer heat. More capabilities from 1 hull.
If you absolutely want to fish skinny, pick up a used kayak,
use the big boat to get to your fishing spot, then yak the flat.
That being said, if your only priority is to fish protected waters
close to your launch point, test ride every possible hull you can
then make a decision based on ride, cost, capability.


----------



## B.Lee

FH, based on your answers, I don't think either is the best boat for you. 20 mile runs in either will take a long time even on a calm day. 

Battling a decent sized tarpon from the deck of either would be a little less comfortable than most would care for.

If you want to stay small, a 16'-18' skiff with 40+hp would be better. More speed, more hull to handle the bigger waters, etc. You can find these all day long in the $10k range.


----------



## iMacattack

I echo the previous posts. An NMZ or Gladesman would not be your best bet for those waters. In your price range look used and look 16'. My mentor for decades ran a Hewes Bonefisher 18 and his clients caught plenty of Biscayne Bay bones. You serious are not looking at the right type of boat for the waters you indicated.

Capt. Jan


----------



## Un-shore

Now we getting some where.

I agree with the latests posts. These are back water boats. Not that either could get the job done, I think a naitive type skiff would be better suited for what you need.


----------



## JRH

You're asking for a comparison of two specific boats. So why don't you just test ride the two damn boats in the area you're going to be fishing instead of hemming and hawing on an Internet forum? 

Then, if you have specific questions, go talk to the owners of each company. 

Sh!t or get off the pot.


----------



## HighSide25

What kind of car are you trailering it with? Make Model, Engine, Tranny?


----------



## fishflyhunt

Thank you guys for the post. 

I currently have a Mustang V6 which towed my 900# wave runner while chugging major gas. That is why I contemplated getting either a GMEN or a Gheenoe. They are light weight, efficient, and will allow me to get on the water more.

I had a truck but unfortunately lost it due to an accident. 

I will be setting up a Dodge Durango to be used as a tow car. If not I will be looking into getting a little truck soon.

How about the Terrapin that is for sale?


----------



## Brett

> How about the Terrapin that is for sale?


Take it for a test ride on a day when the wind is from the NE at 15.
Make the run from Homestead to Sands Cut, straight line course.
Let us know how that works out.


----------



## iMacattack

> How about the Terrapin that is for sale?


Contact the seller.


----------



## fishflyhunt

I did. Asking price is up there.

Let's see how it all turns out.

Any and all rec appreciated.


----------



## jcfisher

As stated previously, check out the Native and the Native SUV. The SUV now has the option of the top cap. You can get the SUV with front and rear decks, motor, and trailer for around 8k. I am partial to the SUV cause I own one.


----------



## fishflyhunt

Thank you. I will take a further look into the boats. Do you happen to have any photos of your boat?


----------



## beavis

> classic,
> 
> can't defend the issues but can try and attack my character
> 
> 
> 
> classic?
> classic is blaming the builder or the boat for the guy that made many mods to his skiff and didn't seal all the holes he put in them...that's classic.
> or when you sold the boat the guy brought it to our shop where we spent hours taking stuff off a skiff we didn't put on only to seal it and make it right, thats classic...
> the only issue you have is your floor and you didn't even tell us. i heard about it from a guy that was skiff shopping and he went by the "other" place at that time only to find the owner of that shop using it as a sales tool for his skiffs...
> however, the classic part was when the guy still bought a skiff from us as he knew that wasn't right.
> 
> or how about a "classic" moment when you tell a guy all is good and forgotten and no worries but still cries about something 4yrs ago....thats classic.
> 
> Can we go another 4 yrs RJ of your classic momments?
Click to expand...

I sold the boat 2 years ago.

Two sides to every story, sure, and the truth, now here is the one from the original owner of it for a year and a half. My side is a lot more along the lines of the truth than paranoia and used car salesman tactics just because I think it was a POS
First of all for the newbie’s to this saga, I was happy with running and fishing that boat and I liked the design. I got sick of crap breaking and wondering what was gonna break next. When I sold it, I made sure it was turnkey. I had everything fixed on it. Ecc was just itchin to get their hands on it to because they could not stand to not know what kind of work Gordon Boatworks had done to it. I knew and talked with other gladesmen owners that were not happy either. I can not vouch for them and won’t mention things they were unhappy with.
I will admit I take a potshot here and there but very rarely. And I have never gone into great detail about a lot of the problems. If you go to that thread on shallow water angler, a lot of it has been deleted from the original ,but my one comment is there when a guy asked between the ecc and the beavertail. I just made a half sentence smart remark with no details and I get some pm from Kevin asking whats my problem and blah, blah, blah. I posted his pm because I will debate in public, good or bad. Fairwarning right there. So now, here is the truth. And now again, I make a snide little comment and a very vague but short discussion with Brazilnut and look at the response it triggered. 

its was MY boat, why in the world would I need yours or anyone else's blessing to take what was MY boat anywhere I wanted to have it fixed. Holy cow are you pompous

For everyone else to know, it went to Gordon boatworks, (Tom Gordon who worked for years with HB, then had Gordon Boatworks and is now back with HB)

Why I never took it back to you to have it fixed. Third time out the seadek peeled up and when I said something about you gave me seadek’s phone number and I had to pay 150 bucks for new seadek on a brand new boat which you installed. Well, hell I could have done that myself so there was no need to use your so-called customer service again. The next things that happened. Hmmmmmm……..

Lets see the stuff that I had nothing to do with that failed, broke, bounced around while driving down the highway, etc..

The hull (interior cockpit floor) cracked longitudinally in several locations. I say there 4-5 of these that were anywhere from 3-8 feet long. Gordon boatworks fixed this and made the boat much stronger.

The grab bar mount where it mounts to the floor. Again, factory installed with the four screws screwed through the fiberglass into foam with no backing. These pulled out and were the cause of one the longitudinal cracks. Gordon boatworks installed a solid backing plate under the deck and the screws were drilled and tapped when installed and it was rock solid after that. I saw how you took care of that on other gladesmens and it wasn’t as clean looking.

The battery in the live well (back storage compartment) you mounted with drywall screws into the back bulkhead. Yeah, that was nice. After driving all the way down to Flamingo I had found that easily pulled out of the back bulkhead and was bouncing around for god knows how long. Gordon Boatworks fixed that and I never had any problems again with it.

Had a problem with a trim tab. Those were installed by ecc. It was the black box or the brain of the system, which I called Lenco and they took care of me. But since I was replacing, I had to look into it to see why it possibly failed. Opened it up and it had about 2 tablespoons of water in it. Big question as to how the water was getting into something that was mounted about 14 inches off the deck on a vertical surface, in a closed compartment. I figured all of it out and fixed it right before I sold the boat and will get to that later.

The fuse panel completely rusted away in a little over a year of owning the boat. Replaced that but again that was mounted in the livewell also about 14 inches off the deck on a vertical surface but on the side bulkhead of the hull. Still how was this happening? Again, it all came together later and I installed another new one before selling it.

Now let’s talk about that livewell back there which you call an aft storage compartment. That thing took on gallons of water since day 1 with that boat. That was a very big mystery. At the time the jackplate was installed, I had owned it for 7 and a half months, but it sat my garage for 5 of those while I was working overseas. Now this all before the jackplate install. One afternoon after fishing I left the boat in my driveway and we had a good rainstorm. The livewell was empty because I had cleaned to boat and drained that after fishing. After an hour or so of rain, I checked on it just to see if there was any water from the storm. It was half full of water. Lovely. 

First attempt to fix this. The hatch drain channels are shallow compared to a lot of other flats boats. I paid a lot of attention after all this crap. In addition the installed drain hoses were long and sagging so they trapped water and inhibited drainage. I experimented with all this in my driveway. Now because those could not drain the water quick enough. It overflowed into the livewell. I cut the slack out of the hoses so they would not inhibit drainage. But it still filled up.

Second attempt to fix this. The installed hoses were three eighths of an inch. Fairly small. I doubled the size of these to three quarters of an inch and along with the fittings and the channels drained quite well now. But the livewell still filled up with water when out fishing.

Now I installed the jackplate. 

When I was considering selling it, I started just cleaning it up and making sure everything was good to go and looking good when my finger got snagged right in the area of the livewell. In fact, it was in the area right by the fuse block. Made me wonder. I looked at my fuse block and could see where water had ran down the sides from it. I took a plastic zip tie and was able to push it from inside the livewell out to the outside under the deck cap quite easily. Then I moved it back and forth. I could do this over about a foot. I sealed all of that with 5200 and checked around the rest of the boat for the same problems. So I finally figured out where most of the water was coming from. I fished it a few more times before I sold it. There was still a little bit of water in there, but drastically less than what it used to.


Now for the stuff I installed
The jackplate, with Tom C and with 5200. 

The new poling platform in the back with marine silicon all around the feet and in the bolt holes which wasn’t done originally.

The GPS mount on the grab bar but I don’t think that affected performance.

A powertech four blade prop.

The front casting platform that is probably too high for most people even though it is in the most stable location on the boat.


Along the lines of the original post here. I already told you, both the gladesmen and gheenoes poled like crap when fishing alone and the ankona boats would be a better choice for your criteria.


----------



## Un-shore

Page 8? :


----------



## natasha1

Not to take away from the conversation at hand (which is very enlightening) I have a Gordon Waterman 18, and I love it. Mine is loaded, but i am sure you could find a tiller version pretty close to your price range 12k-16k ish.  While not the most comfy ride, I have had in some rough stuff and it did well.  Mine drafts about 8 inches with 2 people (but i also have a 70 hp on it).  The "fish ability" is outstanding though. Its poles silent, tracks amazingly well, and poles like a dream from the bow (very important to me since i fish alone a lot).  I am not a HB w***e, but the waterman, she talks dirty to me, and I love it  ;D.


----------



## East_Cape

> classic,
> 
> can't defend the issues but can try and attack my character
> 
> 
> 
> classic?
> classic is blaming the builder or the boat for the guy that made many mods to his skiff and didn't seal all the holes he put in them...that's classic.
> or when you sold the boat the guy brought it to our shop where we spent hours taking stuff off a skiff we didn't put on only to seal it and make it right, thats classic...
> the only issue you have is your floor and you didn't even tell us. i heard about it from a guy that was skiff shopping and he went by the "other" place at that time only to find the owner of that shop using it as a sales tool for his skiffs...
> however, the classic part was when the guy still bought a skiff from us as he knew that wasn't right.
> 
> or how about a "classic" moment when you tell a guy all is good and forgotten and no worries but still cries about something 4yrs ago....thats classic.
> 
> Can we go another 4 yrs RJ of your classic momments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I sold the boat 2 years ago.
> 
> Two sides to every story, sure, and the truth, now here is the one from the original owner of it for a year and a half. My side is a lot more along the lines of the truth than paranoia and used car salesman tactics just because I think it was  a POS
> First of all for the newbie’s to this saga,  I was happy with running and fishing that boat and I liked the design. I got sick of crap breaking and wondering what was gonna break next.  When I sold it, I made sure it was turnkey. I had everything fixed on it.  Ecc was just itchin to get their hands on it to because they could not stand to not know what kind of work Gordon Boatworks had done to it.  I knew and talked with other gladesmen owners that were not happy either. I can not vouch for them and won’t mention things they were unhappy with.
> I will admit I take a potshot here and there but very rarely.  And I have never gone into great detail about a lot of the problems.  If you go to that thread on shallow water angler,  a lot of it has been deleted from the original ,but my one comment is there when a guy asked between the ecc and the beavertail.  I just made a half sentence smart remark with no details and I get some pm from Kevin asking whats my problem and blah, blah, blah. I posted his pm because I will debate in public, good or bad. Fairwarning right there.  So now, here is the truth.   And now again, I make a snide little comment and a very vague but short discussion with Brazilnut and  look at the response it triggered.
> 
> its was MY boat, why in the world would I need yours or anyone else's blessing to take what was MY boat anywhere I wanted to have it fixed.  Holy cow are you pompous
> 
> For everyone else to know, it went to Gordon boatworks, (Tom Gordon who worked for years with HB, then had Gordon Boatworks and is now back with HB)
> 
> Why I never took it back to you to have it fixed.  Third time out the seadek peeled up and when I said something about you gave me seadek’s  phone number and I had to pay 150 bucks for new seadek on a brand new boat which you installed.  Well, hell I could have done that myself so there was no need to use your so-called customer service again. The next things that happened. Hmmmmmm……..
> 
> Lets see the stuff that I had nothing to do with that failed, broke, bounced around while driving down the highway, etc..
> 
> The hull (interior cockpit floor) cracked longitudinally in several locations.  I say there 4-5 of these that were anywhere from 3-8 feet long.  Gordon boatworks fixed this and made the boat much stronger.
> 
> The grab bar mount where it mounts to the floor. Again, factory installed with the four screws screwed through the fiberglass into foam with no backing.  These pulled out and were the cause of one the longitudinal cracks. Gordon boatworks installed a solid backing plate under the deck and the screws were drilled and tapped when installed and it was rock solid after that.  I saw how you took care of that on other gladesmens and it wasn’t as clean looking.
> 
> The battery in the live well (back storage compartment) you mounted with drywall screws into the back bulkhead.  Yeah, that was nice. After driving all the way down to Flamingo I had found that easily pulled out of the back bulkhead and was bouncing around for god knows how long.  Gordon Boatworks fixed that and I never had any problems again with it.
> 
> Had a problem with a trim tab.  Those were installed by ecc.  It was the black box or the brain of the system, which I called Lenco and they took care of me.  But since I was replacing, I had to look into it to see why it possibly failed.  Opened it up and it had about 2 tablespoons of water in it.   Big question as to how the water was getting into something that was mounted about 14 inches off the deck on a vertical surface,  in a closed compartment.  I figured all of it out and fixed it right before I sold the boat and will get to that later.
> 
> The fuse panel completely rusted away in a little over a year of owning the boat.  Replaced that but again that was mounted in the livewell also about 14 inches off the deck on a vertical surface but on the side bulkhead of the hull. Still how was this happening? Again, it all came together later and I installed another new one before selling it.
> 
> Now let’s talk about that livewell back there which you call an aft storage compartment.  That thing took on gallons of water since day 1 with that boat.  That was a very big mystery.  At the time the jackplate was installed, I had owned it for  7 and a half months, but it sat my garage for 5 of those while I was working overseas.  Now this all before the jackplate install. One afternoon after fishing I left the boat in my driveway and  we had a good rainstorm. The livewell was empty because I had cleaned to boat and drained that after fishing.  After an hour or so of rain, I checked on it just to see if there was any water from the storm.  It was half full of water. Lovely.
> 
> First attempt to fix this. The hatch drain channels are shallow compared to a lot of other flats boats. I paid a lot of attention after all this crap.  In addition the installed drain hoses were long  and sagging so they trapped water and inhibited drainage.  I experimented with all this in my driveway.   Now because those could not drain the water quick enough. It overflowed into the livewell. I cut the slack out of the hoses so they would not inhibit drainage. But it still filled up.
> 
> Second attempt to fix this.  The installed hoses were three eighths of an inch. Fairly small.  I doubled the size of these to three quarters of an inch and along with the fittings and the channels drained quite well now. But the livewell still filled up with water when out fishing.
> 
> Now I installed the jackplate.
> 
> When I was considering selling it, I started just cleaning it up and making sure everything was good to go and looking good when my finger got snagged right in the area of the livewell. In fact, it was in the area right by the fuse block. Made me wonder.  I looked at my fuse block and could see where water had ran down the sides from it. I took a plastic zip tie and was able to push it from inside the livewell out to the outside under the deck cap quite easily.  Then I moved it back and forth.  I could do this over about a foot.  I sealed all of that with 5200 and checked around the rest of the boat for the same problems.  So I finally figured out where most of the water was coming from.  I fished it a few more times before I sold it.  There was still a little bit of water in there, but drastically less than what it used to.
> 
> 
> Now for the stuff  I installed
> The jackplate, with Tom C and with 5200.
> 
> The new poling platform in the back with marine silicon all around the feet and in the bolt holes which wasn’t done originally.
> 
> The GPS mount on the grab bar but I don’t think that affected performance.
> 
> A powertech four blade prop.
> 
> The front casting platform that is probably too high for most people even though it is in the most stable location on the boat.
> 
> 
> Along the lines of the original post here. I already told you, both the gladesmen and gheenoes poled like crap when fishing alone and the ankona boats would be a better choice for your criteria.
Click to expand...

Again not all true and quite frankly I could care less anymore what your side is as "both" sides are to blame...
Fact of the matter is the Gladesmen served you well despite what you say so it's safe to say we both agree to disagree on everything. 

~ Kevin


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## beavis

All true with a number of people that can verify everything I have written.

And yes the boat did serve me well. It fished great.

But it fell apart from limited use.


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## East_Cape

> All true with a number of people that can verify everything I have written.
> 
> And yes the boat did serve me well. It fished great.
> 
> But it fell apart from limited use.


Sure Beavis...what ever you say.
;D


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