# Project Carolina Skiff J12 on a Budget- Help Needed and Welcomed



## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

Many, many years ago, I started and ran the Carolina Skiff Owners group. I've owned 3 different CS's over time, though I haven't owned any in a few years. One thing that you want to check for and look at carefully, is....

All of those spider cracks and various holes from attachments may have allowed standing water to get into the foam under the decking. It was mentioned often on the site. Mostly, it wasn't a deficiency in the CS itself, but rather the owners and mechanics who drilled into the hull, and didn't use 3M5200 or other proper sealants when installing things.

One way to know was to weigh the bare hull, and compare that weight to the listed weight on a new hull. Another, if the owner felt that the boat was dragging and heavy and not going fast enough...was to drill a few holes low on the transom; tilt the boat way up; and watch the water drain out. That is the method that I applied.

My middle boat, did, in fact, have water in the hull. I let it stay tilted very high up for a week or two. When the water stopped draining, I put plugs into the openings and went on and enjoyed the boat for years. I sealed everything properly, and checked e very year or two... never did have any additional water issues.

richg99


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## RunAckRun (Dec 15, 2014)

Richg99, I have read numerous accounts of water entering the foam and staying put. I have debated drilling the holes in the transom, I am sure the boat has water in the hull for a couple reasons, it has sat uncovered for who knows how long, there are some large spider cracks, the boat is heavy (even though 4 people can move it around). I have access to a scale that weights up to 1100lbs, I am waiting for a trailer so I can move it to the scale. 

I might just drill some holes and let it sit for the next month, I am renovating several rooms in the house right now so boat time is put on hold.

What size holes and how many do you recommend?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunAckRun said:


> Richg99, I have read numerous accounts of water entering the foam and staying put. I have debated drilling the holes in the transom, I am sure the boat has water in the hull for a couple reasons, it has sat uncovered for who knows how long, there are some large spider cracks, the boat is heavy (even though 4 people can move it around). I have access to a scale that weights up to 1100lbs, I am waiting for a trailer so I can move it to the scale.
> 
> I might just drill some holes and let it sit for the next month, I am renovating several rooms in the house right now so boat time is put on hold.
> 
> What size holes and how many do you recommend?


If you are going to drill holes in it, don't drill holes in the transom. But rather drill holes in the side of the rear drain cockpit (if it has one ). Or if the back deck is flush to the transom drain hole, then drill 1" holes at the rear of the deck at the transom and then flip the boat upside down and then lift the bow up about 4-6ft high and let the water drain out that way. Then in a few weeks, put your fingers inside of the holes to check to see if the foam is still moist or if it's dry. Once dry, then flip the boat back over and seal the holes with fiberglass, grind and sand flush.

An easy way to treat the spider cracks (which is typically in the gel coat since it has less flex than the fiberglass), is to lightly grin out some of the gel coat in the spider cracks areas (in other words, heavy scuffing with heavy grit sanding pads on a circular sander), but not removing all of the gel coat. Do this outside so the dust rapidly dissipates! Make sure to wear goggles, good dust mask and full tyvek suit if you can get one.

Prepare the interior with a heavy cleaning with Simple Green and bleach mixture and water. Scrub heavily, then lett it sit, rinse and repeat, rinsing completely and allow plenty of drying time. Then with finer grit pads, lightly sand the whole interior of the hull to scuff up the gel coat without removing the non-skid., vacuum out, blow out and then wipe down the entire interior of the hull to remove any dust from the sanding/grinding. Use blue masking tape to tape off your rub rail and other accessories you don't want painted.

Go down to West Marine, Boater's World or one of the boating stores and buy a 1 gal kit of West Systems 2-part white epoxy paint (expensive, like $100+/gal but well worth it) and roll it with those little sponge rollers (buy several for the job, along with mixing cups). Mix a small amount and apply an extra amount and several coats around the spider cracking and allow it to kick before you go over the rest of the interior of the hull. The epoxy paint will level and harden like glass. Then mix a larger amount and go over the entire hull interior. 2 coats will do it on a back to back painting schedule, just as the 1st coat hardens to touch. No scuffing in between coats are needed. Do your bench seats and your casting deck the same way and the interior of the boat will look like new. 

Ted


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## RunAckRun (Dec 15, 2014)

Backwater said:


> If you are going to drill holes in it, don't drill holes in the transom. But rather drill holes in the side of the rear drain cockpit (if it has one ). Or if the back deck is flush to the transom drain hole, then drill 1" holes at the rear of the deck at the transom and then flip the boat upside down and then lift the bow up about 4-6ft high and let the water drain out that way. Then in a few weeks, put your fingers inside of the holes to check to see if the foam is still moist or if it's dry. Once dry, then flip the boat back over and seal the holes with fiberglass, grind and sand flush.
> 
> An easy way to treat the spider cracks (which is typically in the gel coat since it has less flex than the fiberglass), is to lightly grin out some of the gel coat in the spider cracks areas (in other words, heavy scuffing with heavy grit sanding pads on a circular sander), but not removing all of the gel coat. Do this outside so the dust rapidly dissipates! Make sure to wear goggles, good dust mask and full tyvek suit if you can get one.
> 
> ...


Ted,
thanks for the information. Sure enough I would have drilled through the transom.

I have several house projects going on at the moment so I think this is a good time for me to let the boat dry for a several weeks/months. I also want to flip the boat and work on the hull. I am sure I can get it cleaned up with out painting it, there are no spider cracks and I figure I can compound rub it and wax it to bring it back to life.


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## RunAckRun (Dec 15, 2014)

I got the boat flipped last night and drilled four holes in the back of the boat on the floor near the transom. The drill bit got away from me and ended up gouging the outside of the hull on one of the

holes.















Can this be fixed with Marine Tex or should I go another route? It is below the water line.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

NOooo!!!!

Sand around the hole with some sandpaper until you reach clean gelcoat. Get a small file and clean out the hole a bit to get the black stuff and debris out.

Go to Walmart, Lowes or Home Depot. Buy the smallest amount of fiberglass mat cloth you can get (about $5) and one of those $5, 2-part epoxy tube kit. Use rubber gloves. Cut up about a 1/4 cup of fiberglass material as small as you can. Mix up about 2 tbsp of epoxy in a plastic cup for about a minute or so with a popsicle stick. Use the stick to add the fiberglass fiber material you cut up, until it make a putty. Remember you have to do this quickly. Don't take more than a min to add the fiber and get it mixed. Then use the popsicle stick to dab it into the crack and fill it in and the smooth it out flush with the gelcoat. It will sag if it's not thick enough, so if that happens, keep smoothing it back up until it kicks in a few minutes. Once kicked in about 5 minutes, it will stay where it's at. Leave it alone until the next day. Then the next day, sand smooth and paint it when you repaint the inside with that white epoxy paint I was telling you about.

Use this method to fix any large holes or cracks in the fiberglass. 

Ted


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Btw, I would keep that boat flipped once you finish your hull hole fix (or before you do it). I would make a mixture of half bleach, half water and a lot of simple green, in a bucket. Use rubber gloves and a sponge and spread it all over the boat to wet it out and let it sit for about 15 mins. Wet it back out again and get some green brillo pads and scrub the heck out of it. Rinse it good and repeat the process. Rinse thoroughly and let dry.

Next, get the finest grit wet sandpaper you can find. Wet sand the whole bottom of the boat, especially at and under the waterline. Your just getting to fresh gel coat, not sanding it off. Rinse off good. Next get some heavy rubbing compound and a buffer and go to town on it, getting all the roughness from the sandpaper out and looking smooth. This process will take a while to do it right. The when it looks good, buff it some more and then rinse. Then add some good wax with the buffer and get it looking shiney. You'll think you have a new boat. 

DON'T wax it before you do that repair!


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## RunAckRun (Dec 15, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Btw, I would keep that boat flipped once you finish your hull hole fix (or before you do it). I would make a mixture of half bleach, half water and a lot of simple green, in a bucket. Use rubber gloves and a sponge and spread it all over the boat to wet it out and let it sit for about 15 mins. Wet it back out again and get some green brillo pads and scrub the heck out of it. Rinse it good and repeat the process. Rinse thoroughly and let dry.
> 
> Next, get the finest grit wet sandpaper you can find. Wet sand the whole bottom of the boat, especially at and under the waterline. Your just getting to fresh gel coat, not sanding it off. Rinse off good. Next get some heavy rubbing compound and a buffer and go to town on it, getting all the roughness from the sandpaper out and looking smooth. This process will take a while to do it right. The when it looks good, buff it some more and then rinse. Then add some good wax with the buffer and get it looking shiney. You'll think you have a new boat.
> 
> DON'T wax it before you do that repair!


Ted,

You are the MAN!!! I will grab some fiberglass mat cloth and make a putty to fill in this hole and a couple others. I have to rebuild the side of the gunnel under the rub-rail where it looks like it hit a dock at some point. The rub rail is in good condition so it will be going back on. I have a few nicks and scraps I want to tackle while the boat is flipped.

I wanted to hear your thoughts on how to clean the bottom up also. The gel coat on the outside of the boat is in great condition, no spider cracking. Should I touch up the fiberglass repairs on the outside with gel coat? I only plan to paint the inside of the boat.

It is nice a pointed up to the sky to hopefully get some of the water out. I figure I have a couple months to work on the hull while the boat is draining.

Brian


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunAckRun said:


> Ted,
> 
> You are the MAN!!! I will grab some fiberglass mat cloth and make a putty to fill in this hole and a couple others. I have to rebuild the side of the gunnel under the rub-rail where it looks like it hit a dock at some point. The rub rail is in good condition so it will be going back on. I have a few nicks and scraps I want to tackle while the boat is flipped.
> 
> ...


That last reply I did is what I wrote to help you clean up the outside hull bottom.  That's your best route. Once that's done, you can evaluate if that's all it really needed.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Run - gel coat is basically tinted, thickened polyester resin. Poly has a habit of not sticking well to epoxy, although it can be done. I'd suggest just getting some cheap marine paint to cover, especially since it is on the bottom.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Gramps said:


> Run - gel coat is basically tinted, thickened polyester resin. Poly has a habit of not sticking well to epoxy, although it can be done. I'd suggest just getting some cheap marine paint to cover, especially since it is on the bottom.


Gramps, no offense and with all due respect, if you do nothing to clean "fresh" gelcoat, then the mold release wax that is mixed into the finish gelcoat layer (a mold release wax) on the "outside hull exterior" will keep anything, including paint to stick. That gelcoat on that J12 is old and dried out, and I recommended scuffing with heavy grit around the hole (exterior hull hole problem). The epoxy will adhere to the raw, cleaned out fiberglass core, as well as the dried out and scuffed gelcoat. Nothing, including paint has a better adhesion than epoxy.

As far as painting the interior of the skiff, same thing. That gelcoat has been baking in the sun for many, many years and has dried out any traces of the mold release wax (if any) in the gelcoat. Epoxy has no problems laminating to polyester resins! Remember, we are talking about marine 2 part epoxy paint you paint. The sprayed in splatter gelcoat they use in the interior of the hulls has no mold release wax mixed (not needed) and therefore will have no problems from the get go, as long as the surface is sanded first. So a dried out gelcoat, copled with a good sanding will be all that's needed to have good 2 part epoxy paint stick to it with no problems and will be the toughest finish he can get. Paint in that situation would suck over time scratching and pealing from interior wear! If he's not comfortable with painting the interior with 2 part marine epoxy paint, then he can take it to a shop and have the interior re-coated with sprayed in gelcoat, not paint!


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Ted, slow down and take a breath. I never said not to clean or that epoxy was inferior. And to my knowledge those boats are closed molded so the gel used was a laminating gel with no wax added. 

Reread what I posted in regards to touching up his repair with gelcoat.


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## RunAckRun (Dec 15, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Btw, I would keep that boat flipped once you finish your hull hole fix (or before you do it). I would make a mixture of half bleach, half water and a lot of simple green, in a bucket. Use rubber gloves and a sponge and spread it all over the boat to wet it out and let it sit for about 15 mins. Wet it back out again and get some green brillo pads and scrub the heck out of it. Rinse it good and repeat the process. Rinse thoroughly and let dry.
> 
> Next, get the finest grit wet sandpaper you can find. Wet sand the whole bottom of the boat, especially at and under the waterline. Your just getting to fresh gel coat, not sanding it off. Rinse off good. Next get some heavy rubbing compound and a buffer and go to town on it, getting all the roughness from the sandpaper out and looking smooth. This process will take a while to do it right. The when it looks good, buff it some more and then rinse. Then add some good wax with the buffer and get it looking shiney. You'll think you have a new boat.
> 
> DON'T wax it before you do that repair!


Backwater,

I got the boat on a home built stand I through together with some scrap wood laying around. Boat is nice and sturdy to work on while I let the foam attempt to dry out.

I got the boat cleaned last night and next up is to wet sand the bottom. I am assuming this is to be done by hand and not with an orbital sander?

Also what 2 part epoxy should I be looking at to fix the hole/scraps? Is there a name brand I should be looking at?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunAckRun said:


> Backwater,
> 
> I got the boat on a home built stand I through together with some scrap wood laying around. Boat is nice and sturdy to work on while I let the foam attempt to dry out.
> 
> ...


West Systems is the most popular marine epoxy and you can find that in all lot of the boaters stores. But that hole so small, I would you can get away with one of the dual tube epoxy syringe kits you find at Walmart or the hardware store. If you have a few small repairs, I like the Loctite dual 4oz bottles (resin and hardener) kits you can find at either Home Depot or Lowes. It's easy to use for other projects for later use (about $10 for the kit).

Just buy the smallest amount of fiberglass mat cloth you can get there at either walmart, lowes or Home Depot or any boating/marine store.

You can try wet sanding by hand, but you can also fine those very fine grit stick on paper for your orbital sander. Go to lowes or Home Depot and ask them about the stick on pads (which is more like paper that sticks on a pad that you use on your sander. Then remember use a heavy buffing compound on a big buffer, then follow up with wax if it comes out ok.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I would not use the tube type epoxy.

Go to the marine store and buy a quart kit, some cloth, and some silica filler. You will use it for your other holes as well.

Cutting cloth won't make a good putty because the cloth will not dissolve in the epoxy. Filler material (silica) will make a very nice peanut butter like paste.

Using a separate two part epoxy will let you mix the filler material to the consistency you need before adding the hardener. You can take yor time to get a good mix, you don't get that luxury with the tube type.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

DuckNut said:


> I would not use the tube type epoxy.
> 
> Go to the marine store and buy a quart kit, some cloth, and some silica filler. You will use it for your other holes as well.
> 
> ...



Duck nut, I'm not a huge fan of the tube type 2 part epoxy kit either. But I would only get the 2 bottles of 4oz resin / hardener kits from Lowes or HD. It's epoxy! Getting a quart will be a waste since the hole is not very big. I understand using the silica fiber to make a putty. But for that particular hole, the longer fibers of glass you cut up, acts like an aggregate and will have a higher tensile strength than silica fiber which just makes cabosil and is just a little better than bondo. Essentially, you are just making filler. That's not enough to fill that whole with something that wouldn't have that much strength. You need longer fibers for more strength. Otherwise, it may crack over time. The 2 - 4oz bottle kits will be plenty to fill everything he needs to fill on that hull. At that point, he could get a little silica fiber like you said and mix it in some to fill some scratches, chips, etc, screw holes, etc. But not for use for bigger holes.

I know it doesn't seem important to debate it, but I've seen cabosil fail in situations like that.



DuckNut said:


> Using a separate two part epoxy will let you mix the filler material to the consistency you need before adding the hardener. You can take yor time to get a good mix, you don't get that luxury with the tube type.


Good point! That's another why I like the separate 2 - 4oz bottles. The loctite epoxy is good stuff. You just need to make sure you are adding the same amount of hardener as you are the resin before you put in the filler material. Otherwise if you are trying to match the volume of hardener to the volume of resin with the filler mixed in, it will diminish it's strength and kick too soon.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

The reason I said to get the quart size is that in the first post there are other areas that he wanted direction on fixing as well. I also presumed he would be rebuilding it and would need more epoxy.

The hole should also be ground back to a bowl shape to remove the sharp corners and give the epoxy more area to grip.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Runackrun, I saw your other post about the Gheenoe. I would stick with this boat for your family as opposed to the Gheenoe. You'd be better off, especially since you already own it. Get it fixed and cleaned up, put a 15hp kicker on it and go have fun!


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## RunAckRun (Dec 15, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Runackrun, I saw your other post about the Gheenoe. I would stick with this boat for your family as opposed to the Gheenoe. You'd be better off, especially since you already own it. Get it fixed and cleaned up, put a 15hp kicker on it and go have fun!


Thanks Backwater, but I actually sold this boat last week. I debated keeping it and fixing it up, but circumstances would not allow enough time to fix it up. Plus finding a decent motor 15hp to 18hp motor around me was proving to be a challenge.


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