# '94 Fin & Feather rebuild



## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

I went fishing with a buddy that has a 1998 center console F&F and was pretty impressed with how skinny it ran and how stable it was given its fairly narrow beam.  Lo and behold, a week later somebody was selling one on Craigslist for $1500 with a 25 h.p. Tohatsu.  I checked it out and the boat was rough - supposedly had been sitting in a barn in Wachula for a decade, bow on the ground, stern exposed to elements.  It was rotten, soft and totally waterlogged - in other words: a perfect project boat.  These MS builds had given me the itch to do one and this looked awesome for a tiller rebuild.  I'm located in SWFL and immediately started daydreaming about skimming this rig around Matlacha, day trips down to Chokoloskee, and running it deep into the Glades backcountry.  Since I planned on doing a tiller and the Tohatsu was not running and a total unknown quantity, I got the guy to keep the engine and sell me the boat, trailer, and trim/tilt unit for $475.  I felt pretty decent about it.  After a super-sketchy 20-minute ride on dry-rotted tires, she was on the property.

The existing set-up was a stick steer control (already removed before I saw the boat - throttle on starboard, stick to steer right/left on port) with the driver on the forward seat, a middle bench with 2 livewells draining straight through the deck, and a back seat.

3 pics bow to stern:


 
I did some research on F&F (big ups to Southbound Chicken's rig, btw) and they were made in Bartow, FL between, I think, 1993 and 2000-ish before going out of business.  The HIN on this one shows it as hull #16, March 1994, a pretty early F&F.  The plan is to completely gut it, build a new floor, front & rear casting decks, 12-gallon gas tank up front and find a decent 25 h.p. 2-stroke electric start tiller.  This is going to be a budget build (polyester and plywood/re-purpose some of the existing fiberglass deck).  I believe you if you say an epoxy/composite is far superior, I just didn't want to lay out the cash for materials and I plan on keeping it inside the garage.
Oh, and did I mention that I've never worked with fiberglass, and don't have a clue about boat-building???
A few more pics:


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## brunyan (May 22, 2012)

Welcome to the "I have a project boat and don't know what to do next without researching every build thread on MS"...club

I'm in that elite club too! Congrats on the find and good luck on the refurb.


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## PLANKTON7 (Jun 14, 2011)

nice, I'm subscribed.


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## PG350 (Jan 19, 2012)

Looks like good boat. I also live in Punta Gorda, let me know if you need help in the future. Keep the pics coming.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

What a awesome find and killer deal let me offer up one bit of advice when working with fiberglass......cover up as much skin as possible otherwise you'll be itching your azz off   best of luck on the rebuild and keep the pictures coming


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Sweet!


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## mcomikey (Aug 10, 2009)

Congratulations on your FnF ! 

I also have a FnF, 1995 that I am rebuilding. I haven't posted pics yet, but will in the near future.

Are you going to rebuild just as it was, or change it up ?


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Thanks for the encouragement - I've definitely been looking at others' builds for long enough.  I've had this project going for a quite awhile, but I just started the thread.  The build is going pretty slowly - I just didn't want to throw everything into the first post.  My first step was a trip to Harbor Freight for a cheap angle grinder and cutting discs - I ended up gutting the boat with the grinder and a circular saw set really shallow to get the floor out.  "A pig (grinder) will chew through bone (fiberglass) like butter..." - Brick Top
I cut out the middle seat and salvaged the two live wells - most likely to be used later for dry storage.  I plan on this being more of a fly-fishing machine.  My 18' SeaPro is in the background...

Front deck and forward seat came out next, lots of wet foam to tear out of the bow...
  
These will come into play later in the build - but as of now, I'm not exactly sure how.

More demo, the bilge area was a pita to get to...

Deck and soggy wood coming up:



Clean as a whistle:

There was some of the old floor wood that went under the transom that I couldn't dig completely out (not much), so I filled it all in with Git Rot to seal and stop any old rot.  The transom itself is in great shape, don't think there will be any problem handling a 25 h.p., at least. 
I think I made a bit of a mistake by not getting detailed beam measurements before demo because the gunnels bowed out a little when I cut the fore deck and middle seat out.  I did note the widest point before demo, which is now only about 2" wider, so I'm thinking it won't be bad to get it close to where it needs to be, if it even makes a huge difference? 
I'm leaving the rear deck in until I get the floor and front deck replaced so as not to let the entire thing bow out too much.  To answer a previous question, the plan is to build about a 3' rear casting deck, 6' of open cockpit, and a 7' front deck - doubt I will put gunnels on it - looking at IPB and Shadowcast for design inspiration.


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## captbrad7387 (Apr 12, 2014)

Can't wait to see the end result. I picked up a 95' f&f similar to yours a couple months ago. Fun little boat.


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## vmgator (Jul 5, 2012)

Now that you got this thread up you need to quit slacking...


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Got the floor cut and brushed the ply with a generous amount of activated resin. Cured, sanded, then laid 3/4 oz. chopped strand mat on both top and bottom sides.  I hit all edges with a router round-over and wrapped the CSM over the edges to seal - it actually went on pretty well and no major problems sticking on the 180-degree roll over the edges.
Fore area of deck:

I'm doing the floor in 3 sections - stern is 36", middle is 75", bow section is 47" - plan is to have seams covered by bulkheads for bow and stern decks.
Middle:

A buddy told me about a way to sort-of-scarf the deck pieces together - flip upside down, put on worktable with a small board screwed into table, lay 5-6 layers of glass on edge of deck and overlapping screwed-down board, painter's tape on the board so glass doesn't stick - pull off and you have a lip sticking out underneath the deck section to join one piece to another.


Got the bilge going using a piece of the old middle seat with a 90-degree curved edge - drilled a drain hole and fitted a plastic threaded plug.
 
Not a perfect fit but I'm pretty sure this ain't gonna be a perfect build  ;D
Next I got the aft portion of the floor fitted and glassed it in using resin thickened with cabosil to stick it and fill the gaps - purposely cut the deck to have about a 1/4-inch gap to fill and bond with the thickened resin.  It felt like a big step in the right direction! Using clean 5-gallon buckets filled with water (about 40 lbs. each) to weight down the deck piece while curing.  Rear bucket is on a 4x4 screwed to pvc legs with painter's tape on bottom.

All build work has been done with the hull on the original galvanized trailer, which is in decent shape - that's when I read a comment on another build that mentioned building on old trailers sometimes equals hooked/hogged hulls (not that I actually know what that means, but it sounds pretty bad).  So I measured and inspected all angles and sure enough, the trailer's crooked, and the piece I glassed in suddenly didn't look so good.  I was pretty sure my build was doomed.  Damn. Needless to say I was kicking myself for glassing in the aft deck on a crooked trailer and proceeded to apply copious amounts of beer to the problem.  Decided the next step was to take a deep breath and build a wood jig to continue the build - it was actually pretty easy but still took me probably twice as long as it should have to get it done because I was so tweaked about getting it straight.  Finally finished and moved the hull off the trailer and onto the jig (don't know if it's actually a jig, more of a wooden stand, but whatever...)
    
I can finally sleep at night now, and the piece I glassed in is level and looks fine - next step is to finish glassing in the two deck pieces.  A few more pics with the deck half glassed/dry fitted.


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## Salty_South (Feb 25, 2009)

Great Job, keep up the good work. I can't wait to see how it turns out!


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## bw510 (Sep 1, 2011)

Lookin good! 
Let me know if you need any more pictures or measurements of mine


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Quick question: the plywood floor has 2 layers 3/4 oz csm on all sides. To finish the floor, I was going to lay a single layer of 8 oz cloth, but someone suggested using a layer of 1708 biax with a layer of 1.5 oz csm on top of the 1708. 

Does the 1708 plus csm seems like overkill (plus lots more resin and weight)? Would a layer of 8 oz cloth be better and enough to protect from wear and tear?


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## NoeSmyrnaBch (Aug 19, 2013)

I don't see why you would need that much glass/resin. Make sure the wood is bonded in strongly (any plans for support underneath the center?), and overlap the CSM. That's how I did my build and its been fine, though I didn't have as much surface area as you will, so take that for what its worth.

Such a cool little rig, can't wait to see the final product!


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Since the deck pieces going in span a short distance I decided to forgo glassing in a stringer, but a friend suggested using a few thick beads of 5200 to add support and shorten the span - I figured it couldn't hurt, so you heard me: this skiff has _structural 5200!_  It's also 5/8 ply with two layers of 3/4 oz CSM on top/bottom, so I think it should be OK.

I made a cabosil-thickened resin, put the putty along the edge of the undersides and filled the gaps on the middle and bow pieces.  Weighted them down with water-filled, 5-gallon buckets - and, for now, a layer of 3/4-oz CSM on the seams.
  
All wet out and glassed in - no bubbles, no troubles!

I cut the old bow deck down to fit in the bow for an area to place the trolling motor battery.  It sits on an inside ledge where the hull steps down, bow area got very solid after this went in.

Grinded, sanded, cut and fit inspection plate, mini-bulkhead is a section from the old middle seat.
 
All glassed and cured - now for the fun part: grinding and sanding to prep for final layer.  Decided to go with a layer of 1708 Biaxial with 1.5 oz CSM on top of 1708.  I went this route to ensure the strength of the seams where the deck and hull are glassed together - I didn't want to only use the cloth and potentially risk the hull flexing and cracking the cabosil puttied seams.
THIS IS MY GRINDER. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, BUT THIS ONE IS MINE... ;D

I got rained out today, but I hope to get the 1708 Biaxial and 1.5 oz CSM in tomorrow.


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

OK - got the floor done about a week and a half ago... here's the glass ready to go in - layer of 1708 biaxial with a layer of 1.5 CSM on top.

I wet out the bottom of the 1708 first, then flipped it over to lay it down - there's a lot of material there and it seemed like a good call because wetting it out from the top was easy with the bottom pre-done.  Once the 1708 was totally saturated w/ resin, the 1.5 oz CSM went down pretty easy on top of it.  The pics don't look a whole lot different, but it's solid as a rock now.

Picked up this poling platform for a good price from a MS forum member - thanks Brent! We will def have to get a glades trip going once I'm done!

Here it is dry-fitted:

Height is 34" which seems wayyyy too high for a boat with a 52" beam - any thoughts or advice on the ideal height?
I'm thinking about 1) mounting as-is with front feet on deck, rear mounted to transom, and chopping 10-12" off the top, or 2) chopping the back legs, getting feet welded on and mounting all four points to rear deck.  

Obviously I've got a lot of work to do before mounting the platform, but what is the general consensus regarding platform height and possibly moving it forward to mount the four contact points on the rear deck?


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## Recidivists (May 9, 2011)

Shear versus flex on the platform issue. If the transom is substantial, then I would keep the transom mounts. I would lower it as far as the motor trim would allow, and then raise it a few more inches.

Nice job.


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## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

Platform:
Looks too high to me, but here's the bottom line... If you are comfortable with it, you will use it. If it's a struggle, it will end up being a standing bait cutting station.

Spoken from experience.


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

It's coming along... got the bulkheads cut out using cardboard templates - not perfect, but I think it'll work out fine.

I'm using the left-over tab from the old bulkhead to bolt the new front one in.  I'll glass it all in and probably will leave it bolted with SS underneath for strength.  Two bulkheads and nose piece dry-fitted.

Need to finish cutting the rod tube holes for install - two tubes on starboard to fit 9'+ fly rods, three tubes on port - 2 fly, 1 shortie for the stake out pole.  I did the 1-1/2" thin wall PVC on the shower flange heat gun gimmick - works really well.  Explained in detail here: http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1355017149 

Got the main deck cut out, cut hole for small hatch to access to bow storage and trolling motor battery.  Plan is to wire the trolling motor in the gap between the nose piece and the main deck.  The gap will be covered with an angled  fiberglass piece connecting deck to nose.  

Dry fit hatch

Startin' to get a feel for how the bow will turn out.  The nose piece is set for the bow-mount trolling motor, and I'm  using a quick release plate - trying to be able to get it to go from trolling motor to no motor with a relatively clean deck for no fly-line snags.  Total length of front deck is about 82"



This is the layout with no trolling motor and quick release plate piece.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

Wow!!!! Nice job man its looking nice[ch128526] i will get some measurements on my platform and report back


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## bw510 (Sep 1, 2011)

Lookin good !!


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## Zipper146 (Dec 4, 2013)

Hey C,

That thing is looking sweet! If you need any help with it let me know. I have some supplies and stuff left over from my project if you need any thing.

I finally started a thread on my boat, it's" Unknown Boat Rebuild". I had some trouble figuring out photobucket at first.

If you need anything? You have my number, Q


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## bw510 (Sep 1, 2011)

Lookin good!


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## mjxlange (Aug 18, 2011)

I see your in Punta Gorda im in Port Charlotte. I just finished my FS-18 and would be willing to lend a hand.


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Sorry for letting this thread go dormant, hate it when that happens.  So the update:
Rod tube holes cut in the bulkheads, kind of a pain to get fitted just right, but not too bad

Next got the bulkhead openings cut, sanded, grinded, glassed,etc

Both bulkheads in, had to cut down the stiffener boards glassed on the gunnels, added two thin strips to connect the bulkheads and give the deck additional support.

Pretty much done with the bow area, moving on to stern area, cut/grinded all out except for a portion of the existing deck, this will be the foundation of the stern deck.

Next I re-used what was previously the base for the front seat as a support for the back deck, added some wood strips to get the right height:

The box was a little narrower on one side, so it's positioned with the opening on the starboard side, got it fitted and drilled and screwed it into place (screws will come out, holes filled later)

I cut a square piece of salvaged fiberglass, from old middle bench I think, and glassed on top of wood strips to make it flush with the existing deck. Weighted all down with water buckets/cinder block, and then sealed the bottom edges with cabosil-thickened resin and strips of CSM on inside and outside and a final layup of 1708 biax on the outside bottom edges.

That pretty much brings it up to date, next step is to paint under deck areas, then final glass layup of fore and aft decks - startin' to look like a skiff!!!!


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## Capt Dan Medina (Apr 28, 2008)

Cool project. Should last ya many years once done!


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

*Re: '94 Fin & Feather rebuild - splashed!*

So here's the update, I had hoped to finish the skiff for a glades trip at the end of March, but it got moved up to March 6.  Between work and rain on the weekends it was tight, but I got it close enough to finished to head down there!!!!! 


Painted under the fore deck, 2 coats Rustoleum marine primer.

Picked up this 1996 Mariner short shaft elec start outboard from a guy in Matlacha, exactly what I was looking for.  Made a motor stand out of a mover dolly and some 2x4s.
Next I glassed the stern casting deck and the fore deck.  I got pretty focused and didn't take pics during the deck install. I used 5200 to join a few areas, but mostly used cabo thickened resin and weighted decks down during set up.  I also glassed a small transition piece from the bow cap to the fore deck, trolling motor wires will run through this piece.  Finished with 1708 on top for final outer layer, thickened resin to seal joints and seams. Here's a pic after final layup, sanding, and 1 coat primer.

Started the rigging: trolling motor installed

At this point, I was running out of time, but it all came together pretty quickly.  It's amazing what you can do if you give up sleeping for a few days!  I finished rigging the bilge pump/float switch, led "disco" light and a dual USB charger for the phone and camera.  The glades trip was a blast and I managed a small tarpon on fly to christen the skiff on its maiden voyage deep into the glades.  The boat ran awesome (until I spun the hub on my prop), but I made it back and lived to tell the tale - it helps when you go with three other boats. Here's a few pics after I got back of the slightly broken in skiff.

Plastic storage bins worked perfect, battery is in the center area, fully enclosed - got a ES20LBS power sports battery, I use the same one on my Kawasaki Mule - works awesome, it's really light, and only $76 from WM.  I installed a 4-switch panel and USB charger below it.  I used my iphone with the Navionics app - worked like a champ navigating off the phone gps, no cell service, no worries about the phone dying with the USB charger!


LED shark eye nav lights

Disco lights

Cleaned up from the glades

Not done, but really stoked it's been splashed, ran like a banshee - wot speed was approx 27 mph, and the hull feels super-light. When it's on plane, the hull feels like it elevates higher and higher in the water.  I am loving this boat!  Shooting for final paint and a few final tweaks in the next 2 weeks, then I'll put it to work on the tarpon headed this way. ;D


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

Looks great thanks for the update


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Ordered some garage floor mat (similar EVA foam like hydroturf, but $30 for a 46"x93" sheet shipped to my front door). No color/texture options, but the gray diamond plate works for me. The material gets warm in the sun, but instantly cools when touched/stepped on.


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## tomahawk (Mar 9, 2012)

Looking good!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I am starting a similar build with a similar skiff. I'm not craizy about using plywood due to the added weight. Will power it with basically the same size OB. So how does all that forward weight effect the trim and running of the boat?

One other comment - Recessing storage bins in the back is a great idea!


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Weight distribution seems pretty good, especially when I'm out solo - originally planned to put a 12 gal tank up front, but I'll prob wait awhile before changing it out. Planes well without tabs, but may add later. This boat had a wood floor and was orig built with poly glass and wood, so I don't think that much weight got added. WOT is 27+ and it feels like the hull wants to skip out of the water, so I'm thinking a little hull weight may not be such a bad thing?


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## codyvb (May 29, 2013)

Wasn't sure how I wanted to rig my horizontal rod storage - used some leftover pvc from the rod tubes and some fiberglass 1/4" thick scraps. I'm liking the way it came out. ;D


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## strangebrue (Nov 28, 2011)

Offsetting them fore and aft looks like a good idea. Looking good!


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## Gators52__20 (Dec 31, 2012)

Nice skiff man, time to find some snook or reds on the fly!


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