# Tampa Bay Redfish - I know they’re tough but damn..



## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

I know this has been talked about a lot, but what gives on these fish in TB! I can find em no problem on the flats usually and I’ve finally gotten to a point skill wise where I can cast to them without spooking them. I also try to fish them during the week when boat traffic is at a minimum - definitely less spooky. But no takers! I’d probably get at least 2 a trip if I had live bait or plastics - but I just can’t let it go, want to get them on the fly. 

I lead them by a good distance when I see em coming, but sometimes I’ve been able to cast right to them without scaring them off - they usually take interest and then after looking swim away. Today I cast to the backside of one that was sticking out of a mangrove line - he turned around immediately, swam slowly over to the crab and as soon as I wiggled it a bit he was in a different zip code.

Im throwing crab and shrimp variations mostly at them. I’m up to a 10-11ft leader with a 12lbs tippet.


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

how close was the fish when you moved the fly?


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## ERK (Mar 6, 2019)

If you’re getting their interest, but cant get them to commit, try downsizing. If they spook on the strip, try long slowwwww strips. Lead them by a 20 feet plus. If these TB reds see the fly land…game over. If they don’t commit on the long slow strip, then i’ll do small quick strip and go from there, paying attention to the fishes’ body language…think cat and string.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

Cast net


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

tailwalk said:


> how close was the fish when you moved the fly?


he was within 1-2 feet of it - he was slowing down as he got closer like he was loosing interest, so I gave it a wiggle. should I be leaving it still if the fish is getting pretty close?


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

anytide said:


> Cast net


lol at this point prob all that will work for me


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

ERK said:


> If you’re getting their interest, but cant get them to commit, try downsizing. If they spook on the strip, try long slowwwww strips. Lead them by a 20 feet plus. If these TB reds see the fly land…game over. If they don’t commit on the long slow strip, then i’ll do small quick strip and go from there, paying attention to the fishes’ body language…think cat and string.


I’ve definitely noticed that if they spook immediately if they see a fly hit the water. I watch guys in LA and TX basically hit em on the head.

Thanks for the tips - I will keep that stripping advice in mind when I’m out next. Right now I’m using #2 hooks, so I’ll grab some #4’s and tie a few up. I thought #2 was small, but seems not small enough.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

_lol_

We tell people this...but they don't believe it until they experience it first hand...feeding a Tampa Bay redfish on fly is damn tough.

My advice would be to throw something that looks like a creek chub more than a crab. Something like a redfish crack may work for you...


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

TB reds have seen it all.
In the 80s they would hit a piece of red ribbon.
Rub some fresh shrimp or cut ladyfish on it.
Thank Me later.


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## Nway93 (May 9, 2016)

anytide said:


> TB reds have seen it all.
> In the 80s they would hit a piece of red ribbon.
> Rub some fresh shrimp or cut ladyfish on it.
> Thank Me later.


That’s fishing with a fly rod not fly fishing at that point…might as well just use the cut ladyfish.

I have zero experience with that fishery but deal with some tough pressured redfish as well. Long leaders like 13-15’ and flies that move without you moving them. Think webby hackles, rabbit, fox/craft fur. No rubber legs as it takes more weight to get the sink rate right and makes a bigger splash, honestly not that big of a fan of rabbit for the same reason.


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## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

Don’t feel bad, I cast to at least two dozen in the past two days. I had one eat, and hook up on a orange green crab with a craft fur tail. They are tough when they are feeding on local stuff, i even had a streamer in front of a 30+ inch snook and he followed it until I ran out of strip…frustrating but also fun.
the reds were tailing and busy eating, heck if I could figure what to feed them. That’s fly fishing!


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

I was joking.


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## Mad Beach Hewes (May 11, 2019)

I moved down here 5 years ago and hung up the fly Rod for a while to figure out the fishery. You are correct about how difficult they can be. I needed to get my confidence back so went to live bait. Tampa Bay seems to be more of a live bait fishery, maybe it’s due to the abundance of bait and pressure. I watched a guy in the same inlet with a fly Rod and we landed 20 + reds big ones as well and he wasn’t even getting a strike. The awesome thing is once it happens, it will be the holy grail…good luck and keep chucking those feathers it will happen.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

Loogie said:


> Don’t feel bad, I cast to at least two dozen in the past two days. I had one eat, and hook up on a orange green crab with a craft fur tail. They are tough when they are feeding on local stuff, i even had a streamer in front of a 30+ inch snook and he followed it until I ran out of strip…frustrating but also fun.
> the reds were tailing and busy eating, heck if I could figure what to feed them. That’s fly fishing!


Oh man, tailing fish and nothing will eat - I can feel that. I was throwing a brown and green crab yesterday with a craft fur tail - so I’m not too far off on fly selection lol. I also had a few big snook this week follow a streamer until I ran out of line. So frustrating but, like you say, that’s fly fishing. Makes that one fish way sweeter IMO.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

anytide said:


> I was joking.


Pretty good though lol feels like all that’s left to do at this point.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

Mad Beach Hewes said:


> I moved down here 5 years ago and hung up the fly Rod for a while to figure out the fishery. You are correct about how difficult they can be. I needed to get my confidence back so went to live bait. Tampa Bay seems to be more of a live bait fishery, maybe it’s due to the abundance of bait and pressure. I watched a guy in the same inlet with a fly Rod and we landed 20 + reds big ones as well and he wasn’t even getting a strike. The awesome thing is once it happens, it will be the holy grail…good luck and keep chucking those feathers it will happen.


Hard for me to hang it up - once I find something difficult to do I usually torture myself with it. I definitely agree with you on the live bait aspect. I’ve fished conventional gear both artificial and live and that’s pretty easy in TB. I watched a guy this week pull in a couple reds not very far from me, but I assume he was chumming and chucking bait due to all the birds he had around.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I don't fish that area (TX guy) but we have some spots here where the fish are known to be picky. Some say they have a PhD, but I think that is an overstatement. Even with picky bones, I always increase the leader, step down the tippet, and use a light smaller fly. I'd go 12' leader, 10lb tippet and a small light fly.

I had some picky fish here recently - I haven't thrown a smaller seaducer in years. Pulled out a grizzly seaducer I tied up years ago, worked all day long.

There was one fish last week that I swear was acting like a snobby trout. Moving slow, I put the fly near him and stripped slowly - it came up and nosed my fly! Like nudged it, then stared at it, then nudged it again! I've seen trout do that on the Frying Pan to dry flies, but never a red. No, it didn't eat, but it was cool to watch.

Don't give up man!


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

My guess is that the Bay Area is loaded with bait right. And I mean loaded. In a month or two you’ll get your red on fly.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

Megalops said:


> My guess is that the Bay Area is loaded with bait right. And I mean loaded. In a month or two you’ll get your red on fly.


I’ve noticed a lot more bait and I just didn’t think that was it, but it makes sense to me. One of these days!


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

If fish are spooking when a fly lands, how in the hell do spin guys catch a red in TB? The reason I picked up a fly rod one day was due spooking tailing reds with spinning gear.

If they are that are that spooky I would start working on my golf game; not sure which would be less frustrating.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

Hire a guide for a day. It will shorten your learning curve.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

Half Shell said:


> If fish are spooking when a fly lands, how in the hell do spin guys catch a red in TB? The reason I picked up a fly rod one day was due spooking tailing reds with spinning gear.
> 
> If they are that are that spooky I would start working on my golf game; not sure which would be less frustrating.


lol!
it’s frustrating how they will spin around on a plastic and not think twice about eating it, but the pressure wave of the fly line landing will spook them.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

So the Tampa bay redfish will go after a soft plastic, but not a fly? That does sound strange.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

Half Shell said:


> If fish are spooking when a fly lands, how in the hell do spin guys catch a red in TB? The reason I picked up a fly rod one day was due spooking tailing reds with spinning gear.
> 
> If they are that are that spooky I would start working on my golf game; not sure which would be less frustrating.


I’ve tossed Vudu shrimp right on them before and they would go nuts to attack the lure. Kinda odd they scare off so easily on a fly. You would think a small fly wouldn’t be an issue when you can toss a 3” weighted artificial shrimp right to them without problem.

I’ve golfed my whole life - now that is some frustrating shit lol.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

@karstopo 

Most of the time - yes. Still get refused some times but if a red sees soft plastic and takes interest, usually gonna eat it.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

backbone said:


> Hire a guide for a day. It will shorten your learning curve.


Agree with ya on this - planning to do this soon.


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## mfdevin (Jun 18, 2020)

I’ve never fished tb, but I tie my flood tide crabs with materials that have a lot of movement/breathing, so that I can basically put in their line of travel, and let it sit, sometimes I will give a very small amount of movement, tiny ticks, but other than that I leave it to sit. Small / simple seems to always do the trick for crabs for me. I’d bet a super small drum beater would do the darn thing.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

maismo12 said:


> I’ve noticed a lot more bait and I just didn’t think that was it, but it makes sense to me. One of these days!


Once the water temp drops the bait will go deeper. This does a couple wonderful things around here parts. The average googan won’t be out because it will be cold and windy, plus it’s difficult to hump bait Dec/Jan/Feb. which means less boats. The water will be clearer, the tides lower, which will be perfect for sight casting. And lastly the reds will get shallow to warm up. You’re coming into the best sight fishing time in Tampa, which is winter. Good luck.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

Megalops said:


> Once the water temp drops the bait will go deeper. This does a couple wonderful things around here parts. The average googan won’t be out because it will be cold and windy, plus it’s difficult to hump bait Dec/Jan/Feb. which means less boats. The water will be clearer, the tides lower, which will be perfect for sight casting. And lastly the reds will get shallow to warm up. You’re coming into the best sight fishing time in Tampa, which is winter. Good luck.


I’m really looking forward to it. Can already see the people starting to thin out after the last cold front. That’s my biggest thing - it’s why I fish weekdays.

Finally moved to the st pete area after living in central FL and driving to and from the coast for far too long. Thanks man!


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

In comparison to other flats species, how tough are the toughest red fish? Where do they reside?


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

brokeoff said:


> In comparison to other flats species, how tough are the toughest red fish? Where do they reside?


im pretty sure you could use Tampa Bay redfish to practice for bonefish and permit at this point.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

Ha First time I fished Tampa I caught a red right off the bat with a chartreuse baitfish, the next day I ran into a school of ten and could even get close enough to cast.


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

backbone said:


> lol!
> it’s frustrating how they will spin around on a plastic and not think twice about eating it, but the pressure wave of the fly line landing will spook them.


Whats worse..Tampa Bay or Pine Island reds?


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

slewis said:


> Whats worse..Tampa Bay or Pine Island reds?


Hahahaha!
I have only fished down there once With you and they were impossible. 
I catch one in Tampa almost every time I’m out.
But, any Redfish in skinny clear water are spooky fish. From Homosassa to Naples.
Lets go to LA!


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

maismo12 said:


> im pretty sure you could use Tampa Bay redfish to practice for bonefish and permit at this point.


I haven't fished for a ton of down town Islamorada bones or Biscayne but from the others I have fished in the Lower Keys, Caribbean and Bahamas bonefish are way way easier than TB redfish. I recall a time in upper Tampa Bay when they were spooking off of a clear line in the air with a 30 foot lead. I think most people that catch them on artificials are blind casting.

As for permit, it's a push. 

I've said for a long time you get me 12 shots of tarpon and 12 shots at TB redfish and I would hook more tarpon.


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## saltyhackle (Jun 28, 2020)

Been fishing the TB flats for a few years now. My advice would be to try _everything_ you can until you find a) what works and b) what you’re confident in. When I found what formula of flies, leaders, weight etc. works for me, I fished more confidently and more importantly, I was able to focus more on my approach/presentation in each fishing situation. As a result, I feel like that has gotten me more hookups. When I spot a red before he sees me, I now know what shot I want, when I want it and I’m much more optimistic I can get him to eat. TB reds are assholes for sure but they will eat a fly, and everyone gets it done a little differently. But it can be done, you just need to continue working to find out what works for you.
FWIW my formula for winter reds here in TB is lighter rods (6-8wt), long leaders (12ft+), light tippet (12-15lb), small flies (2-4), no flash, and long leads. Basically a light bonefish setup. Someone said it already but read the fish’s behavior to gauge how to strip the fly.
Keep it up and don’t lose hope!


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

I am a full time Fly Fishing guide and fish Tampa Bay every day November through April. The Redfish in south bay may be among the most challenging fish to fool on the fly. Here are some of my observations after countless hours on the platform. 

Why do these reds act different from Reds elsewhere?

I believe the issue is two fold. First is the fact that redfish are skittish creatures that trust their sense of smell first which is why they will hammer a soft bait that crashes to the water and ignore the fly. The smell seals the deal.

The second is that it rains white bait every single day in tampa bay. Resident fish are used to the program and these resident fish are keyed in on feeding time. When one guy leaves another moves into the same hole and the feeding begins again. That situation is a large obstacle to overcome with a fly that smells foreign to the environment, or has little odor. 

Over time I have become more successful and most days I'm pretty confident that we can get some eats. I've had to change my approach and there are still plenty of days where nothing works. Here are some of my tactics that work.

Over the last 5 years I have about totally given up on traditional Redfish flies. While the cracks, sliders, crabs etc. work on most Reds you have to accept that these are not most Reds. Since I have totally committed to using Baitfish patterns my success rate has gone up. It is important to have a variety of baitfish patterns but those that fall into the category of Darting, Keeling Tumblers are the type that is most effective. ( a solid explanation of streamer types and how to choose them can be found in this article I wrote years ago Understanding Streamer Flies and Trout ). The flies that dart and keel best imitate wounded baitfish and are most effective at imitating what happens when white bait falls from the sky. 

The technique that produces best is to maximize time in the water. Long casts with painfully slow retrieves made up of sharp strips followed by long pauses. Most of the takes come when you are doing nothing and the tide or boat drift are influencing the line. Blue and White and Yellow and White are my most productive colors. The fly below has been especially effective.








Three inch flies seem to be the sweet spot but smaller is the ticket some days. I have these style flies down to about 1.5" in length.

Lastly I normally have rods on my skiff specifically set up for redfish. I use both #6 and #8 weights. The sixes are for the skinny water. There is a big difference between a six and an eight coming down on flat water. The 8 wts. are for the cuts and drop offs. I also build my own leaders and downsize every section from the butt to the tippet. My leaders are normally 12 to 15 ft.

my 2 cents
Ken


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## Featherbrain (Nov 5, 2021)

Ken T, those flies look killer!!! 🤙🏼


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## saltyhackle (Jun 28, 2020)

Ken T said:


> I am a full time Fly Fishing guide and fish Tampa Bay every day November through April. The Redfish in south bay may be among the most challenging fish to fool on the fly. Here are some of my observations after countless hours on the platform.
> 
> Why do these reds act different from Reds elsewhere?
> 
> ...


Interesting take, Ken- pretty cool stuff! In my short time fishing TB (compared to yours), I've never thrown a baitfish pattern at reds. I've always gone with a crustacean of some sort. Now you got me thinking I should give it a try! What's your general philosophy for color/opacity for flies during the winter months when the water is gin clear?


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

saltyhackle said:


> Interesting take, Ken- pretty cool stuff! In my short time fishing TB (compared to yours), I've never thrown a baitfish pattern at reds. I've always gone with a crustacean of some sort. Now you got me thinking I should give it a try! What's your general philosophy for color/opacity for flies during the winter months when the water is gin clear?





saltyhackle said:


> Interesting take, Ken- pretty cool stuff! In my short time fishing TB (compared to yours), I've never thrown a baitfish pattern at reds. I've always gone with a crustacean of some sort. Now you got me thinking I should give it a try! What's your general philosophy for color/opacity for flies during the winter months when the water is gin clear?


this link is an article I wrote about solid, opaque and translucent baitfish flies. I fish a lot of colors but redfish seem to eat yellow and light blue the most. That is for winter.
Understanding Streamer Flies and Trout


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Megalops said:


> You’re coming into the best sight fishing time in Tampa, which is winter. Good luck.


Best time of the year and the primary reason I own the skiff that I do.

And don't feel bad...it took me almost a year and a half of throwing fly exclusively before I sight fished my first red.

Many snook, trout, and a few small tarpon preceded that first redfish.

I only really tie three types of flies the last few years...a foxtrot mullet, a dubbing slider, or my version of the gartside gurgler.

Those three flies allow me to fish the bottom, middle, or top of the water column...

And I tie the slider weightless, bead chain, or XS dumbell...so I can match the slider to the leader tippet based on water depth and etc.

Foxtrot Mullet
View media item 1999


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

Ken T said:


> I am a full time Fly Fishing guide and fish Tampa Bay every day November through April. The Redfish in south bay may be among the most challenging fish to fool on the fly. Here are some of my observations after countless hours on the platform.
> 
> Why do these reds act different from Reds elsewhere?
> 
> ...


Ken,

Thanks a bunch for this information and the fly photo. It's made a couple light bulbs go off in my head. For one, the live bait rainstorm happening daily - I absolutely agree with this. I see boats all day doing this, and then shortly after one guy leaves, another pulls in and continues. Just hadn't put it together yet.

As for the baitfish patterns, that also makes perfect sense considering the white bait chucking day in and day out. I appreciate the article, learned a bunch in regards to streamers. Will be tying up a few of the yellow baitfish pattern you showed. 

Interesting you mention the 6wt rod - I have been using an 8wt mainly, but dropped down to a 7wt line to try and help with a softer landing, but still not soft enough most of the time. Sounds like I will be picking up a 6wt this week. I've gotten up to 11-12ft leaders with 12lbs tippet, but 15ft doesn't hurt.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

crboggs said:


> Best time of the year and the primary reason I own the skiff that I do.
> 
> And don't feel bad...it took me almost a year and a half of throwing fly exclusively before I sight fished my first red.
> 
> ...



I really like that mullet fly! I've just stuck with tossing crustacean patterns at these reds - sounds like they want something that resembles a baitfish.

For tying the Foxtrot Mullet - do you mind sharing the general steps to tie it? Looks pretty simple, probably ep fibers and craft fur? But if you do not wanna share, that is okay 😄

I have been tying these lately from the same (similar?) materials on #1 Owner Mosquito's - just have not thought to toss them at a red, only snook:


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

maismo12 said:


> I have been tying these lately from the same (similar?) materials on #1 Owner Mosquito's


Tie that same fly on a #2 or a #4 hook and give it a shot in front of a cruising red. Throw it on a 6wt with a long, light leader.

View media item 1924


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

crboggs said:


> Tie that same fly on a #2 or a #4 hook and give it a shot in front of a cruising red. Throw it on a 6wt with a long, light leader.
> 
> View media item 1924



Gonna find out by weeks end. Thanks for the advice, information and confidence booster.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

maismo12 said:


> Gonna find out by weeks end. Thanks for the advice, information and confidence booster.


Proof they'll eat a baitfish fly when crawling up skinny...

View media item 1902


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

crboggs said:


> Proof they'll eat a baitfish fly when crawling up skinny...
> 
> View media item 1902


I’m gonna make it happen - thanks again!


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Just a quick follow up to my post about the Baitfish for Reds.
Some shots of the flies I tie in various sizes. These are all tied with materials that will trap and hold some water but the materials do not absorb. All of these fall into the category of darting, keeling or tumbling flies. This style is the key to consistent takes.

The top photo shows flies with slightly soft wing material. The lower photo shows flies tied with super stiff fibers. The ones in the lower photo are far more effective most days

























Some photos from lower Tampa Bay in areas that see crazy pressure. All taken on the Baitfish patterns above.









































Match the hatch

Ken


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

maismo12 said:


> I know this has been talked about a lot, but what gives on these fish in TB! I can find em no problem on the flats usually and I’ve finally gotten to a point skill wise where I can cast to them without spooking them. I also try to fish them during the week when boat traffic is at a minimum - definitely less spooky. But no takers! I’d probably get at least 2 a trip if I had live bait or plastics - but I just can’t let it go, want to get them on the fly.
> 
> I lead them by a good distance when I see em coming, but sometimes I’ve been able to cast right to them without scaring them off - they usually take interest and then after looking swim away. Today I cast to the backside of one that was sticking out of a mangrove line - he turned around immediately, swam slowly over to the crab and as soon as I wiggled it a bit he was in a different zip code.
> 
> Im throwing crab and shrimp variations mostly at them. I’m up to a 10-11ft leader with a 12lbs tippet.


I've been guiding fly on the South Shore of TB for some time and I can tell you that reds here are a challenge....especially here on the South Shore. The key is to be very stealthy in your approach. Usually if you cast to a fish within 20' it is going to be tough to get them to eat. The slightest movement or vibration puts them on notice. It also doesn't help that they have hired the sheepshead as their personal security detail. They will usually spook first and the red that is mixed in with them will then take the hint. I will use a 6 wt. as well, however an 8 wt. will get the job done. I will drop down to 12', 8# tippet and small crab or shrimp flies in natural colors. What I do to get them to bite is to give the fly a pop to get their attention then do small ticks that mimic the shrimp or crab burying itself. That usually gets the job done....unless they are just not going to eat. Prime time for me is November to late March....preferably on mid-morning incoming tide. When the mud is heated by the sun, it warms all the creepy crawlies that reds like to eat and then they come out once the tide covers the mud. Not to mention the heat-retained mud makes the water a couple degrees warmer then the surrounding area....which can make a huge difference. Final marker to find them in TB.....great blue herons. If you see them on the flats and you can see most of their legs...fish in front of them where the water is deeper. If the heron's butt is touching the water....fish that line the heron is on. He is hunting the same stuff the reds are. Let me know if you want to get out and get it done!


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

I have become better at feeding finicky redfish and big trout by altering my casting stroke and developing a very light fly. The flies I tie on b10s hooks and use only XS bead chain eyes; polar fiber instead of craft fur. They take longer to sink, but that's OK. I have had fish eat it way off the bottom. With a 7 weight and a long leader, open up your casting loop and practice letting the fly "float" down. I'm not sure that is a very good explanation, but hope you get the point. I think you can get much closer to spooky fish that way. The farther you have to lead a fish, the less likely your line up will be right. Have fun.


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

Shadowcast said:


> It also doesn't help that they have hired the sheepshead as their personal security detail.


So true - got a good laugh out of that one! Same deal in Pine Island


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Shadowcast said:


> It also doesn't help that they have hired the sheepshead as their personal security detail.


_lol_ Too true.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

mwolaver said:


> With a 7 weight and a long leader, open up your casting loop and practice letting the fly "float" down. I'm not sure that is a very good explanation, but hope you get the point. I think you can get much closer to spooky fish that way.


Yeah...when I slow down and remember to control myself I try to cast to a spot above the surface of the water so that the leader rolls out and the fly lands more softly.

But then sometimes it helps to "plop" it in there if you are working a mangrove edge...because the fish may think a crab fell out of the bushes and into the water...sometimes they will come looking for it...


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## saltyhackle (Jun 28, 2020)

Totally agree with the last few posts. There's a huge difference in the fly's entry when you cast an open loop. I'm definitely trying to work on that myself during this season. I also have to remind myself to make sure to keep my rod tip traveling parallel to the water. Sometimes I tend to drop the tip on my forward cast which often results with the fly making a much bigger splat/splash. Someone on here once said the fly line, leader and fly should ideally land all at the same time (as much as possible). I'd say he was dead on about that.


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## RotorslapX71 (Jan 28, 2019)

Non-stop pressure from people slingin bait. More boats on the water….


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

RotorslapX71 said:


> Non-stop pressure from people slingin bait. More boats on the water….


So last fall I was fishing with my kids and I took my time and poled my way into a shoreline just north of Cockroach Bay. I was working down the shoreline and a guide in a Texas style deck flats boat motored right by us and about 100 yards up to a creek mouth, shut down and started chumming. Thankfully both of my kids were there as usually I would have lost my shit l on that one. But they were both wondering what he was doing throwing chum baits. 

I explained to them how he was chumming with bait and they were both so outraged that they were "cheating"and that's not hurt you fish. The best thing is they were loud enough that the captain and clients definitely heard them. They moved about 5 minutes later. 

Funny thing is they have both fished with shrimp and we've never talked about bait fishing.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

saltyhackle said:


> I also have to remind myself to make sure to keep my rod tip traveling parallel to the water. Sometimes I tend to drop the tip on my forward cast which often results with the fly making a much bigger splat/splash.


I tend to do exactly the same thing and it’s something I’ve been working on myself.


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## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

Shadowcast said:


> Final marker to find them in TB.....great blue herons. If you see them on the flats and you can see most of their legs...fish in front of them where the water is deeper. If the heron's butt is touching the water....fish that line the heron is on. He is hunting the same stuff the reds are. Let me know if you want to get out and get it done!


Blue Herons.. would of never figured that one out lol. That’s really cool to know. Thanks! 

I’ll give you a follow on IG!


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## Dave Neal (Nov 10, 2018)

maismo12 said:


> I know this has been talked about a lot, but what gives on these fish in TB! I can find em no problem on the flats usually and I’ve finally gotten to a point skill wise where I can cast to them without spooking them. I also try to fish them during the week when boat traffic is at a minimum - definitely less spooky. But no takers! I’d probably get at least 2 a trip if I had live bait or plastics - but I just can’t let it go, want to get them on the fly.
> 
> I lead them by a good distance when I see em coming, but sometimes I’ve been able to cast right to them without scaring them off - they usually take interest and then after looking swim away. Today I cast to the backside of one that was sticking out of a mangrove line - he turned around immediately, swam slowly over to the crab and as soon as I wiggled it a bit he was in a different zip code.
> 
> Im throwing crab and shrimp variations mostly at them. I’m up to a 10-11ft leader with a 12lbs tippet.


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## Dave Neal (Nov 10, 2018)

maismo12 said:


> I know this has been talked about a lot, but what gives on these fish in TB! I can find em no problem on the flats usually and I’ve finally gotten to a point skill wise where I can cast to them without spooking them. I also try to fish them during the week when boat traffic is at a minimum - definitely less spooky. But no takers! I’d probably get at least 2 a trip if I had live bait or plastics - but I just can’t let it go, want to get them on the fly.
> 
> I lead them by a good distance when I see em coming, but sometimes I’ve been able to cast right to them without scaring them off - they usually take interest and then after looking swim away. Today I cast to the backside of one that was sticking out of a mangrove line - he turned around immediately, swam slowly over to the crab and as soon as I wiggled it a bit he was in a different zip code.
> 
> Im throwing crab and shrimp variations mostly at them. I’m up to a 10-11ft leader with a 12lbs tippet.


OK, guess this is just another bit of advise but it’s worked for me hundreds of times. Make sure the fish doesn’t know you are near. His movement will tip you off. If he’s moving slowly with intent, meaning like he’s looking for something to eat, cast about 6’ in front and past his line of travel. Give two to three short strips when he’s 3-4’ away. He will likely charge and eat. Set the hook and have fun. If the fish is sitting still and moving away at a steady better than slow pace, you’ve already been busted. Any cast will likely be rejected and the fish is gone.


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## saltyhackle (Jun 28, 2020)

Dave Neal said:


> OK, guess this is just another bit of advise but it’s worked for me hundreds of times. Make sure the fish doesn’t know you are near. His movement will tip you off. If he’s moving slowly with intent, meaning like he’s looking for something to eat, cast about 6’ in front and past his line of travel. Give two to three short strips when he’s 3-4’ away. He will likely charge and eat. Set the hook and have fun. If the fish is sitting still and moving away at a steady better than slow pace, you’ve already been busted. Any cast will likely be rejected and the fish is gone.


^^^This

Reading body language is key. More times than not, their behavior will often let you know if they're gonna feed or already sensing danger.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

It may not be technically applicable to TB but hopefully, misery will love company.

My story is very similar but I'm on the East Coast mostly in the near-impossible muddy lagoon system.
5 years, sporadic redfish catches with no real pattern. Started on the spin gear and artificials to figure out some zones. Carried both spin and fly on the boat for a year or two and now I only carry the fly rods. Granted, the catch totals are not the same but 2-3 good reds on the fly that were caught executing a plan are better than 10 on a plastics resulting from blind luck. On bad days I could always nail a few on the spinning gear on the way back to the ramp. It helped keep the confidence up.

When I started throwing small crabs in the back water, it got more predictable. I can only figure that small crabs are all pretty much one size (#1 or 2) and they all move slow. so they are relatively easy to replicate and no one is really fishing them as bait. It's a safe eat for a smart fish. I also started to figure out that in those same zones small deceivers and the like could work as well if I slowed and steadied the retrieve. 

Another very important key for me seemed to be the sink rate. Once I tied with the correct weight/size and refined my leader system I got the correct sink rate and natural flutter of a fiddler crab falling off the grass/structure and the entry into the water was much better as well. Now I get bit on the fall very often. The fall is natural, it's not a strip or a twitch. If you have a buddy that you can really trust and you have already been busted at a spot get out of the boat. Have him cast your set up at you while you are standing in the water. Observe what your fly does on your leader set up and know what it does when it falls and when you strip/twitch. Does it act like the bait they are feeding on in that spot or can you make it act that way?

3rd key is was definitely the approach/setup and retrieve. If I'm too noisy (hull slap or pressure wave), if I'm too close, if I'm retrieving the fly against the current (no matter how small it is), I'll get rejected. If I troll motor near to the zone and pole gently (or really slow TM) up-current the last 50 yards, stop 40-50ft off the fish's front quarter, and cast up current I will usually get a play. 

After a year and a half, I can say that I have developed a number of "spots" where I'm fairly confident a specific technique can produce in certain conditions. Don't get me wrong it is not 100% automatic but the confidence factor is a big deal.

The result is, I'm having more fun trying to develop a 2nd set of spots/techniques (troughs/bars/channels using baitfish patterns). I can fish my 1st set, see and hook a few and finish the day figuring out and developing the second set of spots/techniques.

Stick with it and keep changing up little aspects of your technique until you get the math right. There are a hundred little things that you have to execute correctly, but that's what makes it fun.
Also, consider that the specific fish that you are seeing and are targeting may not be eating at the time. Unless you see fish actively feeding you may want to move on after one or two rejections.

Good luck, stick with it.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Try Pine Island sound in for some spooky fish. The main issue is fishing pressure down here compared to just 10 years ago let along 25 plus. Long leaders and longer casts are gonna be your best bet imho.


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