# ISO true 4in skiff



## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

I’m looking for a true 3-5in drafting skiff. I really like the karma 19 but haven’t found to much info on it. Also I am considering the SC 16. I’d like a little side console for the comfort of longer runs. Anyone have any info on performance and draft of the 2 that can help me out? Or opinions on different skiffs? Thanks!


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

I could be wrong, but I really don't believe there is a single skiff out there which truly drafts only 4" in real world conditions. Meaning when you have 2 people and even a minimum of gas, gear, and refreshments.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

not many fish in ankle deep water


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> I could be wrong, but I really don't believe there is a single skiff out there which truly drafts only 4" in real world conditions. Meaning when you have 2 people and even a minimum of gas, gear, and refreshments.


Bingo! 
The only boats I know of that can truly draft 4” are some long and super wide aluminum flat bottoms and big Carolina Skiffs and even then 4” draft with a real world load is a stretch. 
When these builders claim 3-4” draft it’s usually minus any load or even an outboard. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but 7-8” is a super skinny drafting skiff (sub 70hp and 17’) with two average sized guys, a tank of fuel and gear.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

https://www.beavertailskiffs.com/models/micro

There's a pre-owned one for sale on here. Not 4 inches, but legitimately under 6 with one angler and a 30 E-TEC. I know because that's when I'd rub the bottom in my former Micro.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2016-beavertail-micro.56084/


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## Indy (Aug 21, 2015)

My Lostmen gets super skinny. I think it still drafts 6”-8” . How skinny do you need to get?


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

It isn’t the hull. Most guys simply cannot pack light enough to make it happen. Hell, any light 1648 flat-bottom jonboat can do it... 

...if you go solo and leave everything except the absolute basics at home: use a 10 hp motor instead of a 25 hp; limit yourself to 3 gallons of fuel and one small tackle box of essentials; no 70 qt. Yeti full of ice and beer; no full baitwells; no batteries. You’ll still have to stand on the bow to counter balance the motor, so the poling platform will be out of the question.

Not many guys will accept these compromises. They will out fish you two to three times a year for the effort.

Nate


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

wildwest30 said:


> I’m looking for a true 3-5in drafting skiff. I really like the karma 19 but haven’t found to much info on it. Also I am considering the SC 16. I’d like a little side console for the comfort of longer runs. Anyone have any info on performance and draft of the 2 that can help me out? Or opinions on different skiffs? Thanks!


In terms of draft, the ShadowCast 16 and 18 will get a skinny as you every need to go without running aground. I would pole mine through wet grass and be amazed how well it floated. Was it 4" or 5"?? Not sure. But any shallower and it would have been rubbing bottom. The key is to keep the build light. The more stuff you put in the skiff, the more it will draft. If draft is your primary concern, which it sounds like is, then you'll want a tiller model with the lightest motor out there (Tohatsu 20 HP at 94#). The ShadowCast 16 performs pretty well for the size of the skiff. With a 20 HP, you'll see mid to upper 20's depending on your load. It poles like a dream and is silent. If you put a side console on a skiff that size (240#) you are then adding an electric start motor, a cranking battery, you'll need trim tabs for solo running, etc. By keeping it simple and keeping any extra weight on the center line of the skiff, you'll maximize your running performance and your draft/poling performance. Feel free to text me with any other questions you have or if you'd like to receive pricing. 863-860-7250


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I scoff at any claims of a 4" skiff rigged and loaded for fishing.

Even my Glades X is probably somewhere around 5-6" when we're stalking reds. Guess I need to measure next time out.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

GullsGoneWild said:


> not many fish in ankle deep water


All the time and any chance I get...low tides are my absolutely favorite.

Sometimes you have to pass through that skinny water to get to a trough or into position for the tide to turn more so than actively fish it.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

crboggs said:


> I scoff at any claims of a 4" skiff rigged and loaded for fishing.
> 
> Even my Glades X is probably somewhere around 5-6" when we're stalking reds. Guess I need to measure next time out.


I think most draft numbers like that are rigged with no one in the skiff. I can believe that the HB Skate, the ORIGINAL Glades Skiff, and the late 90's, 2000, and 2001 Whipray could get what they advertised which was 3.75" if I'm not mistaken. But as soon as you put a guy on the bow and the poling platform that number went up...even if it is just a little.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

GullsGoneWild said:


> not many fish in ankle deep water


I know everyone if different but I just measured to the top of my ankle bone and it's 6.5". Plenty deep enough for these belly crawling reds we'll see in Tampa Bay in the winter.



crboggs said:


> All the time and any chance I get...low tides are my absolutely favorite. Sometimes you have to pass through that skinny water to get to a trough or into position for the tide to turn more so than actively fish it.


I am so ready for negative low tides!


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## Jpscott1 (May 2, 2017)

My old 1436 aluminum jon boat with a 15hp 2 stroke had a draft of about 4 inches if you loaded your guns and decoys in the bow to cause it to sit level. Here's the rub- once 2 average sized guys got in the boat, it would draft more than 4 inches. Our solution was to get out and walk and pull the boat behind us. Being able to pull that boat over shallow flats at the mouth of rivers/creeks resulted in alot of dead ducks.


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

Shadowcast said:


> View attachment 43706
> 
> 
> In terms of draft, the ShadowCast 16 and 18 will get a skinny as you every need to go without running aground. I would pole mine through wet grass and be amazed how well it floated. Was it 4" or 5"?? Not sure. But any shallower and it would have been rubbing bottom. The key is to keep the build light. The more stuff you put in the skiff, the more it will draft. If draft is your primary concern, which it sounds like is, then you'll want a tiller model with the lightest motor out there (Tohatsu 20 HP at 94#). The ShadowCast 16 performs pretty well for the size of the skiff. With a 20 HP, you'll see mid to upper 20's depending on your load. It poles like a dream and is silent. If you put a side console on a skiff that size (240#) you are then adding an electric start motor, a cranking battery, you'll need trim tabs for solo running, etc. By keeping it simple and keeping any extra weight on the center line of the skiff, you'll maximize your running performance and your draft/poling performance. Feel free to text me with any other questions you have or if you'd like to receive pricing. 863-860-7250


Do the 16 and 18 draft the same?


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

No John boats. I am definitely looking for a technical Microskiff. With no hull slap. I like the sc16 for the price.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

wildwest30 said:


> Do the 16 and 18 draft the same?


Yes. We advertise 5". The 18 may get even shallower. The issue is in order to take advantage of the aggressive tunnel on the 18, you'll really want to add a jack plate, tabs...which adds the battery....and a 30 hp. Again, you'll get as skinny as you'll ever need to in either.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

wildwest30 said:


> I’m looking for a true 3-5in drafting skiff. I really like the karma 19 but haven’t found to much info on it. Also I am considering the SC 16. I’d like a little side console for the comfort of longer runs. Anyone have any info on performance and draft of the 2 that can help me out? Or opinions on different skiffs? Thanks!


Your problem is two fold.
1. There just aren't skiffs out there that are less than 5" of draft when ready to fish.
2. You are asking for an oxymoron when you say you want something THAT skinny but also comfort for longer runs.

The skinniest skiff I have ever fished from is my buddies Cayo tiller. That is a very nice skiff and its as skinny as you ever need to get.

Lastly draft discussions always amaze me because so many guys claim their skiff (and bay boat discussions are way worse) that their boat only drafts blah blah blah. But then you ask then if they have actually loaded it for fishing and measured it. Very few guys have actually taken a real world measurement of their boat and thats fine. You know if you boat is good enough for you or not. But where it falls apart is when they start to claim numbers.


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## hcft (Dec 10, 2015)

my skate drafts 4" with 2 guys, both over 200lbs.. believe it or not lol..

It is not for long runs and walks on the beach though...

also you can bring a fly rod and a couple beers, no loading the boat..


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

hcft said:


> my skate drafts 4" with 2 guys, both over 200lbs.. believe it or not lol..
> It is not for long runs and walks on the beach though...
> also you can bring a fly rod and a couple beers, no loading the boat..


Not for long walks on the beach my ass!! Your skiff is the most romantic one out there! I have had a long standing love affair with that thing. I have an album on my phone strictly for Skate pics I find online! Lol


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

that is a really nice skiff.


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

I have a super bare bones cayo 173 tiller with a zuke 30 and I have yet to find a crawling redfish that I couldn't get to. It's an honest 6" or maybe less boat all day with two guys, gear, camera gear, beverage cooler etc. Gets me everywhere I've ever needed to go.. and I'm sure there's a skinnier boat out there but I promise there isn't one that gets skinnier and will also get you safely to the places I take mine regularly.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2018)

20’ plywood wellboat will do it, but I wouldn’t want to pole it!


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## hcft (Dec 10, 2015)

Here are some pics to add to your phone.


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## hcft (Dec 10, 2015)

View attachment 43754
View attachment 43756
View attachment 43760
View attachment 43762
View attachment 43764
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View attachment 43768


Here are some pics to add to your phone.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

hcft said:


> View attachment 43754
> View attachment 43756
> View attachment 43760
> View attachment 43762
> ...


Made some changes I see!


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

My pic was when the Skate was the CCA raffle boat.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

Just me a fishing pole won't add much more weight ...

No it is not a 60 K skiff and no there are not 2 200 pound guys and a 300 pound cooler but it runs damn Skinny !!!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I know that an 8' wide x 27' long aluminum jon boat will draft 1.5" and will draft 1" more for each 1,100 lbs of crap in the boat. It will also safely carry 10,000 lbs and still draft under a foot.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

My canoe drafts a couple of inches but I'm not taking it to the ocean. My big fat flats boat drafts 8-9 and that's fine with me. Gets me across flooded grass flats
also can get me across a big bay or the Cape Fear river. Dont try to take your tillers across the Cape Fear


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I have a super bare bones cayo 173 tiller with a zuke 30 and I have yet to find a crawling redfish that I couldn't get to. It's an honest 6" or maybe less boat all day with two guys, gear, camera gear, beverage cooler etc. Gets me everywhere I've ever needed to go.. and I'm sure there's a skinnier boat out there but I promise there isn't one that gets skinnier and will also get you safely to the places I take mine regularly.


This is the skiff I referred to earlier. Having not measured it I won't quote a number. But it is the skinniest skiff I have ever fished on in 40+ years flyfishing in the salt. But here is the difference between this skiff and some others (see below). The OP also wants a skiff that can get him places comfortably. This skiff does that. Is it as comfortable as my Vantage? Well duh of course not. But I can't go a lot of places this one can!



noeettica said:


> Just me a fishing pole won't add much more weight ...
> 
> No it is not a 60 K skiff and no there are not 2 200 pound guys and a 300 pound cooler but it runs damn Skinny !!!


So big whoopie. You can get real skinny in a glorified canoe. Ok I am only pulling your chain a little bit. The OP asked about skinny skiffs that he can comfortably take on long runs. That ain't it.


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## Shadowcast16 (Mar 5, 2017)

I had a Shadowcast 16 with micro center console and Tohatsu 20hp and that thing was absolutely amazing how shallow it ran. It had the tunnel and I never had to trim the motor up in Everglades national park. It was also a short shaft motor. With two adults it would float in spit.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

You can have a skiff that floats skinny
or a skiff that rides comfortably in a chop.
Everything else will be a compromise
and the resulting hull won't do either well.

If you want skinny your hull will be a flat bottom.
Think crab skiff.
If you want comfort it will have a vee and a bit of heft.
I'm sticking with flat and shallow for now.


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## Grayyoung77 (Feb 24, 2014)

I'd have to agree with the post on the SC 18. It'll get you as shallow as you'll ever need to be, and on a budget. We literally stay on grass flats longer than the fish. Blows out a bit in tight creeks with the tunnel but it's an incredible little boat. Build it light, run a tiller and go anywhere you please.


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

Shadowcast16 said:


> I had a Shadowcast 16 with micro center console and Tohatsu 20hp and that thing was absolutely amazing how shallow it ran. It had the tunnel and I never had to trim the motor up in Everglades national park. It was also a short shaft motor. With two adults it would float in spit.


That’s what I like to hear!


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

Grayyoung77 said:


> I'd have to agree with the post on the SC 18. It'll get you as shallow as you'll ever need to be, and on a budget. We literally stay on grass flats longer than the fish. Blows out a bit in tight creeks with the tunnel but it's an incredible little boat. Build it light, run a tiller and go anywhere you please.


I’m in between the 16 and the 18. It’s bugging my brain!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

Go with the 18, it will balance out better. 


wildwest30 said:


> I’m in between the 16 and the 18. It’s bugging my brain!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Boat approximately 300 lbs is what I was told by Harry. Motor 114 lbs me145 lbs floats plenty shallow for me and I would feel comfortable in nasty water.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

wildwest30 said:


> I’m in between the 16 and the 18. It’s bugging my brain!


Either way you will not be disappointed. I think it's easier to keep the 16 very basic. It would be hard not to maximize the tunnel performance on the 18. Let me know if you want pricing.


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## Grayyoung77 (Feb 24, 2014)

18 for sure. A lot more skiff for a little more money.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

Shadowcast said:


> Either way you will not be disappointed. I think it's easier to keep the 16 very basic. It would be hard not to maximize the tunnel performance on the 18. Let me know if you want pricing.


Nothin complicated about a micro jacker and properly tuned prop!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

The 18 will have a better ride by nature! It will bridge the chop better, smoothing and even drying the ride a little.


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Boat approximately 300 lbs is what I was told by Harry. Motor 114 lbs me145 lbs floats plenty shallow for me and I would feel comfortable in nasty water.
> View attachment 43802


Is this the X?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

wildwest30 said:


> Is this the X?


Z


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

I might be able to build ya an x though!


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

I owned a SC18 for a while and was not impressed by its performance. Build quality: YES, value: definitely! But it was not ideal in my area (SoFla, mostly ENP). And 100% not a 4” skiff... not even close! 

For the record: hatsu 30 tiller, built in fuel cell and TM battery (no Tm mounted). 2 guys and regular load. Couldn’t break 25mph. I’m of the opinion that the tunnel actually hurts that skiff. 

I’m currently in love with the Z backcountry16 has! And boatbrains’ X project sounds interesting. For some reason, those Spear tiller skiffs look perfect!


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

manny2376 said:


> I owned a SC18 for a while and was not impressed by its performance. Build quality: YES, value: definitely! But it was not ideal in my area (SoFla, mostly ENP). And 100% not a 4” skiff... not even close!
> 
> For the record: hatsu 30 tiller, built in fuel cell and TM battery (no Tm mounted). 2 guys and regular load. Couldn’t break 25mph. I’m of the opinion that the tunnel actually hurts that skiff.
> 
> I’m currently in love with the Z backcountry16 has! And boatbrains’ X project sounds interesting. For some reason, those Spear tiller skiffs look perfect!


I will be using the skiff in the same area.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

manny2376 said:


> For some reason, those Spear tiller skiffs look perfect!


If you want a minimalist technical tiller that has no frills but is built like a tank, it is perfect.

If you want a sand bar skiff with speakers, power poles, and etc, its definitely NOT.

It all depends on how you intend to use it...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

manny2376 said:


> I owned a SC18 for a while and was not impressed by its performance. Build quality: YES, value: definitely! But it was not ideal in my area (SoFla, mostly ENP). And 100% not a 4” skiff... not even close!
> 
> For the record: hatsu 30 tiller, built in fuel cell and TM battery (no Tm mounted). 2 guys and regular load. Couldn’t break 25mph. I’m of the opinion that the tunnel actually hurts that skiff.
> 
> I’m currently in love with the Z backcountry16 has! And boatbrains’ X project sounds interesting. For some reason, those Spear tiller skiffs look perfect!


Maybe you need a different prop. The problem I see repeating itself is guys run the same prop on the same motor and hull one with and one without a tunnel and expect the same speed with the same prop. When you lift a motor and add setback with a jackplate you’ll need a prop with more cup and possibly stay with a 3 blade.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Boatbrains said:


> Nothin complicated about a micro jacker and properly tuned prop!


You are right. But in terms of keeping weight down and having less moving parts, with a jack plate you're adding a battery at the very least. But I agree. I would want to put that tunnel to good use.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

I came here hoping to see a draft number and manufacturer flame war, and I only see helpful and constructive discussion. Yet again, y'all disappoint me.


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Maybe you need a different prop. The problem I see repeating itself is guys run the same prop on the same motor and hull one with and one without a tunnel and expect the same speed with the same prop. When you lift a motor and add setback with a jackplate you’ll need a prop with more cup and possibly stay with a 3 blade.


Tried three different props( 2-3’s and 1-4 blade), all through powertech (with a tach, not guessing) and had the last one cupped locally. Never broke 25mph and never really had full use of trim. As it was, Skiff drafted around 7-8” measured. Adding a jack plate would have only added weight and draft. Sold it and bought a Waterman, problem solved. 

The skiff ran shallow, sure! But overall performance suffered just so it could. Also, draft at rest suffered due to the tunnel. For my specific use, it didn’t work out like I thought it would and that didn’t come to light until months of repeated use.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

If I was looking for super skinny skiff it would be fs-18 flats stalker, hellsbay glades skiff, or the karma 19.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

What about that Glasser Wright water.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Shallow I can do.
Comfort was never part of the design.










The pocket tunnel is 4 inches tall.
Note the water level at the tunnel.










Epoxy/glass over 1/4 inch plywood, 220 lbs.
10 years of abuse and still doing the job.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Brett said:


> Shallow I can do.
> Comfort was never part of the design.
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty badass right there!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Maybe the new Chittum Helium...I heard it actually levitates.


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

Have you guys seen or been in the mangrove ibis 16? 308lbs, seems like something to look at


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Maybe the new Chittum Helium...I heard it actually levitates.


Microskiff rule #1: All threads must devolve into Chittum discussion after page 3.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

jhreels said:


> Microskiff rule #1: All threads must devolve into Chittum discussion after page 3.


It’s the law! Chittum invented the skiff after all!


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Boatbrains said:


> It’s the law! Chittum invented the skiff after all!


Well I"ll be. After all these years I thought Chittum had invented the internet.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Brett said:


> Shallow I can do.
> Comfort was never part of the design.
> 
> 
> ...


If I recall correctly, there was something or other you were doing called "Next".

Next not here? Let me guess - stock carving get in the way?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

SomaliPirate said:


> I came here hoping to see a draft number and manufacturer flame war, and I only see helpful and constructive discussion. Yet again, y'all disappoint me.


It's the me too movement everyone's getting softer and gentler. Well not everyone where are you smack?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

manny2376 said:


> Tried three different props( 2-3’s and 1-4 blade), all through powertech (with a tach, not guessing) and had the last one cupped locally. Never broke 25mph and never really had full use of trim. As it was, Skiff drafted around 7-8” measured. Adding a jack plate would have only added weight and draft. Sold it and bought a Waterman, problem solved.
> 
> The skiff ran shallow, sure! But overall performance suffered just so it could. Also, draft at rest suffered due to the tunnel. For my specific use, it didn’t work out like I thought it would and that didn’t come to light until months of repeated use.


 Agreed Manny I had a 16 with a 20 hp and couldn't break 25 nice little boat for what they are and a great company.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backcountry 16 said:


> It's the me too movement everyone's getting softer and gentler. Well not everyone where are you smack?


Right here spitting coffee on my laptop in the work truck.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

There has been a slight change on here lately. More help than pushing an opinion or bashing someone else. It’s just easier. By no means am I soft and gentle. I’m a cool, pain in the ass, can be an asshole, help you anyway possible nice person around those that deserve it. Hell. Even Smack and I are getting along now.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Right here spitting coffee on my laptop in the work truck.


Glad I could help carry on.


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## redfish5 (Jun 28, 2011)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t tunnels by design run slower? I had a pathfinder 15t with a 30 and it wasn’t breaking 25 mph. How fast would you expect to go?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

redfish5 said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t tunnels by design run slower? I had a pathfinder 15t with a 30 and it wasn’t breaking 25 mph. How fast would you expect to go?


Yes a little, it’s due to the lifting of the water creating some drag. But a well designed tunnel it should be minimal.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

redfish5 said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t tunnels by design run slower? I had a pathfinder 15t with a 30 and it wasn’t breaking 25 mph. How fast would you expect to go?


Tunnels get a bad reputation due to some being designed poorly (bad shape, too big or small etc), the motor and jackplate are not set up correctly or tunnels added to hulls that are not designed to be tunnels from the beginning and the builder doesn’t raise the transom to offset tunnel height. An average tunnel should only lose a couple of MPH and a quarter inch of draft at most. My hull with an F70 will come close to 40mph and still run and float in minimal water. Add a well designed vent and it’s like the tunnel is not even there.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Tunnels get a bad reputation due to some being designed poorly (bad shape, too big or small etc), the motor and jackplate are not set up correctly or tunnels added to hulls that are not designed to be tunnels from the beginning and the builder doesn’t raise the transom to offset tunnel height. An average tunnel should only lose a couple of MPH and a quarter inch of draft at most. My hull with an F70 will come close to 40mph and still run and float in minimal water. Add a well designed vent and it’s like the tunnel is not even there.


This!


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Numerous studies have shown that the people who don't like tunnels also kick kittens and pull the wings off butterflies.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

stock carving get in the way?

Couldn't come up with a better hull than the Slipper for the oyster marsh.
I don't sweat the scratches or the mud on the old girl.
Easy to trailer, launch and clean up after.
Get's to where the fish are and the people aren't.
Funny how those two go together.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

Brett said:


> stock carving get in the way?
> 
> Couldn't come up with a better hull than the Slipper for the oyster marsh.
> I don't sweat the scratches or the mud on the old girl.
> ...


Hey, she’s a cool little skiff that gets the job done and that’s what matters right!


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## Mattlow (Nov 12, 2014)

BB2869FA-CB53-4E65-A132-3D44149F52AE




__
Mattlow


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Oct 4, 2018











  








49DF772C-59F6-4E95-9AD0-9BA1E76E1455




__
Mattlow


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Oct 4, 2018








If you zoom in you can see the decal. 5” or a little less. That’s with gear and loaded cooler.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mattlow said:


> BB2869FA-CB53-4E65-A132-3D44149F52AE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice!


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Well I"ll be. After all these years I thought Chittum had invented the internet.


It’s kind of a chicken or the egg scenario.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2018)

Mattlow said:


> BB2869FA-CB53-4E65-A132-3D44149F52AE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not that I wouldn’t love to sell the OP a skiff, but I studied those pretty hard and that looks as close as you can get to 4” draft to me. There has to be an inch under the decal before the waterline! Hat is off to Sabine!


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)




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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

crboggs said:


> If you want a minimalist technical tiller that has no frills but is built like a tank, it is perfect.
> 
> If you want a sand bar skiff with speakers, power poles, and etc, its definitely NOT.
> 
> It all depends on how you intend to use it...


nothing torques me out like someone blasting a stereo out fishing. yes I'm a cranky old man out there trying to get away from all that crap.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

redfish5 said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t tunnels by design run slower? I had a pathfinder 15t with a 30 and it wasn’t breaking 25 mph. How fast would you expect to go?


Yes they do


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## Dallas Furman (May 13, 2018)

ifsteve said:


> Well I"ll be. After all these years I thought Chittum had invented the internet.


No No No...Al Gore invented the internet


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## Shadowcast16 (Mar 5, 2017)

Definitely go with the 18sc. If I would have gotten the 18 with tiller instead of the 16 console I would still have it. The boat was awesome but I am a big guy and the center console took up a lot of room.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Brett said:


> stock carving get in the way?
> 
> Couldn't come up with a better hull than the Slipper for the oyster marsh.


Yes, stock carving.

Didn't you carve yourself a precision shooting stock?


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## Dustin1 (Feb 11, 2007)

Shadowcast 18 is a great option. It won't draft 4" for sure, but the draft of the skiff has never been an issue for me. With a balanced load (two grown men and gear), I would estimate 7" or so real-world. I bought this skiff because of the tunnel (I fish the Big Bend a great deal where rocks are ever-present). The tunnel has saved my butt on many, many occasions. My skiff is heavier than most SC18's and I have no problem hitting 25-26 mph under pretty much any normal load (with two people). I run a 4-blade prop with significant cup. Blow-outs are not a problem. The boat likes weight forward and quite a bit of trim. 

This was at the mouth of the Harney on a four-day camping trip with my 9 year old this past April.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

If you're running a tunnel, you probably don't care much about top end speed.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2018)

crboggs said:


> If you're running a tunnel, you probably don't care much about top end speed.


But if one could have both? Lol!


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Dallas Furman said:


> No No No...Al Gore invented the internet


I believe he also came up with patented data rails.


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

So I wanted to give a math example for those who think 26 mph in a Shadowcast is poor performance, just to ground a little reality here.

Lets look purely at the motor:

Suzuki DF30A with an 11p prop (common on SC)

lets set a hypothetical max RPM achieved at 6000

Gear ratio is 2.09 on this motor.

That means at 6000 motor RPM we are spinning 2868 rpm at the propeller.

each round of the prop gets us a theoretical 11" of forward motion.

So thats 31,548" per minute.

Or 1,892,880" per hour.

63,360" in a mile, so thats 29.875 mph.

That is 100% efficient, which is not possible, due to the fact that you would not have a pressure differential on the blade surfaces, so there would be no thrust. And on top of that, its a tunnel, which means it will generally have more slip than a non tunnel due to the dirty water.

So lets be nice and give it only a 10% slip. Thats 26.8875 mph.

I rest my case. A Shadowcast with a 30 going 26 mph is spot on.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> But if one could have both? Lol!


Low 30s is plenty fast for me in skinny water.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Excellent assessment @jhreels 
A hull will only go as fast as it can. Neither of the ShadowCast models can go much faster than upper 20's....and really in skiffs that small, you wouldn't want to.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

jhreels said:


> So I wanted to give a math example for those who think 26 mph in a Shadowcast is poor performance, just to ground a little reality here.
> 
> Lets look purely at the motor:
> 
> ...


Man you killed it! Please tell me you have a formula for those figures. If not, you just made me feel ignorant!


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2018)

crboggs said:


> Low 30s is plenty fast for me in skinny water.


#Me too... lol!
We put a 70 on my 15’ R/T skiff “old Clearwater skiff design” and top speed was 45mph with a 21p stainless wheel. It was in no way safe or even fun to operate as you had to steer it with trim tabs at that speed because the stern would pass the bow otherwise. Well, it was a little fun... but only because I was in my 20’s at the time. It got the same speed with a outboard jet pump as it did with a prop. Maximum hull speed is a real thing.


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Man you killed it! Please tell me you have a formula for those figures. If not, you just made me feel ignorant!


I've never tried to write it out as a formula. It's really just first accounting for lower unit gear ratio, then running a series of conversions to get the units you need.

Theres a few 'calculators' on the internet that will run the math for you and do the same thing.

Im working on a diagnostic system right now that will measure boat speed, engine RPM, gearcase RPM, and effective slip in real time. This data will then be logged and can be reviewed to compare a propeller's precise performance to another on a boat.

Its all part of a new company my partner and I are working on. When were done building the hardware, I'll show it to you guys.

Sorry for the thread jack btw.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2018)

jhreels said:


> I've never tried to write it out as a formula. It's really just first accounting for lower unit gear ratio, then running a series of conversions to get the units you need.
> 
> Theres a few 'calculators' on the internet that will run the math for you and do the same thing.
> 
> ...


This sounds pretty cool, can’t wait to see what ya’ll come up with!


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## m32825 (Jun 29, 2018)

Shadowcast said:


> Excellent assessment @jhreels
> A hull will only go as fast as it can. Neither of the ShadowCast models can go much faster than upper 20's....and really in skiffs that small, you wouldn't want to.


All the places I fish are in 25mph manatee zones from ramp to target area. If I have enough horsepower to go faster than that fully-loaded with my buddy and gear, I'm carrying around a bigger outboard than I need.


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## Shadowcast16 (Mar 5, 2017)

Trust me 26mph in a shadowcast is plenty fast! They are on the edge! I wouldn't want to go any faster in one.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Dustin1 said:


>


Dustin from Naples and the BG area?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

This is the TRUE - 4" draft microskiff!


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## Dustin1 (Feb 11, 2007)

Backwater said:


> Dustin from Naples and the BG area?


Nope. Merritt Island.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backwater said:


> This is the TRUE - 4" draft microskiff!


I’d book him!


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Hey DuckNut, yeah, still building benchrest stocks.
Slipper takes care of the saltwater side of things,
but ballistics is fascinating.
Between learning reloading for precision
and building stocks to learn what works
small bore scoped pistol at 200 yards
takes up my spare time.
I'm easily entertained.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

GullsGoneWild said:


> not many fish in ankle deep water


We stuck two belly crawlers on a low tide last night...backs out of the water...stalked them in the Glades X for about 50 yards to get in front of them...f'ng epic eats. Would have had to walk to them if we'd been drafting 7-8" instead of 5-6". Definitely makes a difference.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

5-6 is not 4


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

GullsGoneWild said:


> 5-6 is not 4


Pound sand and pay attention to the comment I was responding to.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Brett said:


> Hey DuckNut, yeah, still building benchrest stocks.
> Slipper takes care of the saltwater side of things,
> but ballistics is fascinating.
> Between learning reloading for precision
> ...


I recognize this behavior; I gotta have a problem to chew on also. In the absence of a current problem, I try to identify future problems. I keep catching myself looking at bass guitars.

Nate


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Beats carving dekes...right Nate?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

People get so butthurt over everything...comical. Let’s all go on diets, take nothing but a few lures and one rod and go back to 2 strokes then we can worry about inches. I like to take enough gear to be comfortable on most trips.
Some skiffs bow keel around 1/3 back is the lowest point on the skiff, not the transom where I see lots of people taking draft measurements. The Sabine is basically a flat bottom so transom and gunwale/side measurements are legit but I know my HPX Tunnel will drag bottom at the keel between the console and bow gas tank before anything else touches. Something to keep in mind before you buy into a draft claim.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

crboggs said:


> Pound sand and pay attention to the comment I was responding to.


instructions unclear, dick stuck in sand


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Brett said:


> Beats carving dekes...right Nate?


Don't laugh. That is on the list too... ...and building rods. A good problem is simple at first glance, but opens up infinite complexities once you commit to it.

Tell me you aren't reloading rimfire ammo.

Nate


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm not reloading rimfire.
Too much effort with very little return.
223 F-Class, Savage target action, Shilen match select 26 inch barrel.
Just under 5 oz pull, 75 grain Amax atop H322.
Lapua brass, Remington 7.5 small rifle primers.
1/4 moa at 200 yards when I read the flags correctly.
Everywhere I don't want them to be when I don't.
Good thing I'm easily entertained.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I have a Karma. It will pole in 5" with two people and gear. It draws more when I'm by myself because the stern squats with me on the poling platform and no one up front to balance it. It's a POS, but did I mention it will pole in 5"? Of course I don't fish in 5" but I do have to cross it to get to where I fish. I'm convinced that any boat that will float in 4" will be extremely uncomfortable to try to GET TO 4". I run some open water to get to my flats and the 18'10" length of the Karma does help bridge between chop and boat wakes.


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## wildwest30 (Feb 22, 2012)

FlyBy said:


> I have a Karma. It will pole in 5" with two people and gear. It draws more when I'm by myself because the stern squats with me on the poling platform and no one up front to balance it. It's a POS, but did I mention it will pole in 5"? Of course I don't fish in 5" but I do have to cross it to get to where I fish. I'm convinced that any boat that will float in 4" will be extremely uncomfortable to try to GET TO 4". I run some open water to get to my flats and the 18'10" length of the Karma does help bridge between chop and boat wakes.


What makes it a POS?


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

wildwest30 said:


> What makes it a POS?


Mainly, poor construction quality. It was not built by Bossman, so their quality may be better. I wanted to upgrade and looked at a Caimen, Glide, and BT Mosquito but I believed that I would have gained at least an inch of draft with those. The Karma floats shallow and poles great, spins easily in spite of the sponsons, and gets the job done.


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