# Good fly set up for a newbie fly thrower.



## Lil_Tate (Dec 18, 2006)

For Reds, Snooooks, and small poons. 8wt? Oh, will also be tegeting permit and bonefish eventually.
Don't want to break the bank, but I also don't want a zebco. Knowwhatumsayin?....  Suggestions?


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## mygheenoe1 (Dec 18, 2006)

have tanner show you the ropes


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## Lil_Tate (Dec 18, 2006)

Come on guys, help a brother out.  
Tibor back ciountry wide.  I can get one for one helluva deal.
 

What do you think?
Anyone have a rod I can throw it on until I can decide type/length I will be comfy with.


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## Spook (Apr 6, 2007)

If you've got a line on a Backcountry Wide, get it. I bought one of the old Backcountry standards for $175 when they changed the design. No problems. Very simple design, but really well made. It's the kind of piece of gear that you can pass on to your kids. You may be a LITTLE undergunned on the permit and poons, but you'll probably be OK. Ross also makes good reels. They're smoother but maybe not quite as bulletproof.

8 or 9 weight, 9' long is what you're looking for in a rod. The 9 weight would give you a fighting chance on the permit and poon, but I would just go with the 8 weight. The heavier the rod, the less likely you'll be to practice. You really need a 10 weight for the bigger fish anyway. To get to the point where you can reliably sight cast a flat full of reds takes a lot of work and you want it to be as enjoyable as possible. A lighter setup goes a long way towards that. Fish the 8 for a while, then get a 10 later if you decide you like it ....... then a 6 .......and then a 12. Popular, cheaper rods are the TFO TiCR or TiCr-X and the Redington CPS. Cast them if you get a chance. They'll all feel like crap if you're new, so just pick the one you like. Get lessons before you develop any bad habits. If you buy it at a real fly shop, they can usually point you in the right direction. Practice in the yard and on the water. Get more lessons about 6 months later for a tuneup. Rinse and repeat. When you get buck fever and blow the shot to the big tarpon cruising right in front of the boat, try not to throw the whole setup in the water. 

Elie


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## litlblusrn4bigred (Jan 8, 2007)

TFO-9ft 8wt. i paid 150 for that rod. Lamson 3.5 lite speed reel...i paid 650 for two of them. Both the rod and reels perform excellently. I havent caught any tarpon or permit on it but have caught 40 pound king salmon and they pull like freight trains on a long track. Both the rod and reel performed flawlessly. I wouldnt spend anything less than about 3-500 for a decent reel and a couple hundred more on a good rod. good luck.


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## Lil_Tate (Dec 18, 2006)

Great information guys, it is much appreciated. So, 8 wt 9' rod to pair with the Tibor back country wide. I think Santa may have to bring me a rod. Too much money leaving and nots enuff comin in......


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## mygheenoe1 (Dec 18, 2006)

get another job bi**h


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

Ah, my first rod advice.  This topic always comes up and I'm nearly tempted to write up a newbie's guide to selecting that first outfit for Tom to pin for reference, maybe debate is a better term. :

Anyway, what makes me craziest is the suggestions that you need top-end gear to get started. To be clear, I'm not knocking any of the responses so far, theres some good advice here. What I'm saying though, is don't get too caught up in the hype. You'll see the "high-end" advice all over the place, be it the internet, a magazine or an unscrupulous salesman at your local fly shop. If money is no object or you're fortunate enough to have access to guide pricing etc, then fine, the high-end equipment is a no-brainer from a value to cost and re-sale standpoint. That's assuming of course $600-$700 for your first outfit doesn't make you wince for a variety of other reasons. 

Getting started saltwater fly fishing around the late 60's though, I can tell you its possible to catch some incredibly large fish on what most people would consider junk today. Meaning, the entry level stuff these days is several orders of magnitude better than what your favorite saltwater fly fishing legend was using 40-50 years ago. I think the biggest thing most newcomers miss is the actual tackle is just a small part of what it takes to get tough saltwater fish to the boat. Casting, presentation, hook setting, fighting, knot tying and boat handling skills will cost you more fish than the difference between drags on $100 to $700 fly reels or the power to weight ratio between a Sage Xi2 and a $40 no-name import rod of the same line class. Point being, you won't be more successful starting out just because you have nearly $1000 invested in your tackle. 

Spend a 1/4 of that or even less and get out there and learn the ropes first. If you're still at it after a couple years then upgrade. The cheapest rod you can find on the shelves today or at a garage sale will easily cast 90' in the right hands. The same rod with a $35 Pfleuger 1498 will land you dozens of bonefish, small tarpon, snook and redfish too, as well as any number of other inshore/near-shore gamefish. Notice I didn't say permit! Thats not because an inexpensive outfit isn't up to the task, its because in a life time of pursuing them you'd be lucky to get a dozen of them to hit a fly, let alone land even half of them.


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## Kurt (Mar 14, 2007)

Two words about your rod selection...Lifetime Warranty.
For the price and warranty, look at the TFO TiCrx series.
Their turn around for repair has been excellent in my experience. Same applies for St. Croix. I've had excellent service from them.
Personally, I like the "TiCrx" series much better than the TiCr.
Sage, on the otherhand, leaves something to be desired in the way of quick turn around.


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## Spook (Apr 6, 2007)

Deerfly has a point. I suggested the Tibor because you seemed set on it and I would be too if I could get a killer deal. I think that the importance of a superior drag is a little overblown in the advertising and media. A lot of reels will have a good enough drag to land fish. But one thing that cheap fly reels will not do in salt water is last. You can spend $60 on a cheap one that will rust out in a year. I've done it. Friends of mine have done it. We always wished we had just bought a mid-tier reel to begin with. Ross has some great cheaper reels. I've heard that Lamson does as well. If it was a toss-up between the two, I'd rather spend the money on the rod. It's more important as far as catching fish goes. More expensive rods have lifetime guarantees. You don't fully appreciate that until your girlfriend closes your rod in the door or it breaks in some other stupid way. TFO was great when that happened to me. I know it seems ridiculous, but in the realm of fly gear, a $250 TiCr-X is a bang-for-your-buck bargain rod. I think it's worth it, especially considering it's a lifetime investment with the warranty. I don't think that the $700 Sage is worth it, regardless of how long you use it. I don't cast well enough to truly appreciate anything more refined than the TFO anyway. 

You can catch fish with a $20 Eagle Claw glass rod and a $20 graphite reel with a click and pawl drag. You can also catch fish with a length of twine and a piece of bacon. It comes down to what makes you happy. Some people take great satisfaction in using very little money to accomplish something that others are spending a small fortune on. I can understand that and feel the same way about some other activities. But whether it's fishing or boats or woodworking or knives or anything else, I personally take a lot of pleasure in the simple act of using a really well made tool. I don't have the highest end gear in the world, but man I love using it, even if I don't catch anything. It's all a matter of personal preference. I derive part of my enjoyment from the gear that I choose to use, and that's why it may be worth more to me than to deerfly. I think that both philosophies are OK, but they do differ. You can't catch fish either way unless you practice casting though.

Elie


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

Elie, I would guess I have the same high-end tendencies as you. A quick scan of my rod collection, gun safe, longbows and wood working tools would bear this out.  But I can also say my first possession in most, if not all of these categories was not what it is today. I can also wax on and on about target pistols, knife collections, compound bows, cameras, scuba gear, etc. that were sold at a loss because my interest waned over time. 

With fly fishing especially, most of the magic is your personal ability, not the rod, line or reel. You are right about cheap reels rusting out, but with reasonable care the 1498 medalist is not one of them. Spartan yes, functional and more than adequate for what most guys will encounter, most definitely. Consider snook and redfish, most are caught by stripping them in by hand like large mouth bass, you don't need to get them on the reel until they're pushing 6lbs or more. Snook near structure even more so, if you focus on getting them "on the reel" before stopping those initial runs with your stripping hand, you'll most likely loose the fish. In those cases the guy handling the boat, gradually getting you away from the structure as you fight the fish is just as important as anything you're doing with the rod and line in your hand, as is the leader you're using and the knots you tied and so on. A GLX and Tibor Everglades won't make much difference in that situation.

I'm not trying to go toe-to-toe with you here either, I'm only trying to point out that a very modest investment will serve a newcomer very well until they realize whether fly fishing is their thing or not. As you correctly pointed out a novice isn't going to realize why a top of the line rod or reel is so great.

I'm also not suggesting anyone buy junk to see if they like fly fishing either. If I were to suggest specifics I would steer towards TFO rods too and maybe a SA entry model, a Pflueger Trion or Redington CD (cork drag) reel as well. But a TFO Series 1 matched up with a decent entry level reel will catch a lot of fish for a long time without shaming the owner.  I would say you're probably going to need to spend something on the order of $250-$350 dollars for a "great" first outfit. But if a guy said to me all I have to spend is a $100, I can get him casting and catching fish with that outfit as fast as anyone with a rig costing 4-5x as much. 

As always, buy the best you can afford. - eric


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2007)

> As always, buy the best you can afford. - eric


Sounds like a good motto to me.


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## BlueWaterMD (Aug 30, 2007)

As someone who went through this not too long ago, maybe I can shed some light on the situation. I know people who when they decided to take up fly fihing whent out and bought a loomis GLX and tibor reel. That ends up being about $1300. Personally I think that is rediculous. Starting out you aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a $200 rod and a $700 rod. That being said, buy decent equipment and look for a lifetime warranty... it may cost a little more now, but will save you hundreds in the end.

Rod:
I like a 9 wt b/c it gives you shots at the larger fish. Sometimes it is a little heavy, but it is my rod of choice unless I could have an 8 and a 10. My choice for best value rod for the beginner is the TFO TiCr. Some people will recommend the TiCr X, but I like the TiCr better. Honestly, most of the guys I know (even the ones with loomis and sage rods) like the TiCr over the TiCr X. The TiCr will be more forgiving in learning to cast as it is not as stiff, but still has enough backbone to get the job done. The professional is a cheaper, but I think it is a little soft. Cost of TiCr - $209

Reel:
While I am not a big fan or orvis, I think the BEST value on the market today is the orvis mid arbor battenkill reel. Quality built, good drag, lifetime warranty. Orvis Reel - $119

This is my recommendation to any beginner. Really a sweet setup all for $328. You won't find a better combo for that price anywhere.

By the way, I have a St Croix Avid 9wt with a Lamson Velocity Reel. I loke my setup, but would buy the TFO if I were to do it over. The lamson reel will run you around $275. It has not let me down yet, and Lamson's customer service is kick @ss! They are really a good bunch of guys over there. An alternate for a slightly higher end setup would be a St Croix Legend with the Lamson reel.


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## Spook (Apr 6, 2007)

Eric,

I think that we're on the same page and probably think about it in exactly the same way. I guess in my personal experience, all of my friends that cheaped out on their new setup ended up regretting it. Then again, they all be came completely addicted to the sport. If you allow yourself to get discouraged enough to quit or just plain end up not liking it, I would imagine you'd be kicking yourself over trying to offload expensive gear and make some of your investment back. That's never been a problem for me. ;D I'm the guy trying to buy the used gear that those guys don't want. Anyone got a TiCr-X 10 weight they want to sell cheap? [smiley=cheesy.gif]

Rod and Reel:
As far as rod choice goes, there is a lot of personal preference involved in that. I like to use the lightest rod I can for a given fly and wind condition. I end up throwing a 6 weight in a lot of the places I fish. An 8 is plenty sufficient for me, but it is usually protected and there is zero chance of juvie tarpon being around, much less a permit. I personally like the TiCr-X better than the TiCr, but that's not necessarily because it's a better rod. It's a better rod for me. If you end up preferring the TiCr more........ Sweet! It's a little cheaper. When you're first starting out, you may end up liking the Professional even more, it loads up much more progressively that either of the Ti's which can really help you get your timing down since you have more time to feel what the line is doing in the air. You probably will end up relegating it to a backup rod in the future, but there's nothing wrong with that, especially if it gets you casting better faster. And I know I keep saying it, but for the price, the Ross CLA is supposed to be the business. I have the now discontinued Ross Canyon BG and I freaking love that reel. Much smoother than either of my Tibors. It's like comparing a Shimano Sustain to one of the old metal Penn SS reels. The Penn will probably last longer, but man the Shimano is sweet while it lasts. Regardless of what you choose from the options that have been discussed, you'll end up happy. They're all good suggestions. Good luck.

Elie


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

Elie, I'm a sucker for a Tibor at a garage sale. ;D

I think BlueWater's suggestion on the 9wt has a lot of merit, but as Elie points out a 6wt can work pretty well in most inshore situations too. Personally, I've caught 6-7lb bonefish on an old Sage 5wt. I would characterize that as more of a stunt than the right setup for those fish though. Along these lines and its been discussed a bit already, but today's rods aren't really in line with the AFTMA line weights anymore. They tend to be about a line class stiffer. So most 8wts are really fine throwing a 9 or even 10 line because they really are 9wt as far as the original standards are concerned. Naturally, the extra power means the rod has more fish fighting power than the 8wts of yesteryear as well. 

For that reason, I think a 9wt is probably slight overkill for most inshore situations. However, if you are only going to have 1 saltwater rod for the foreseeable future and you'll be targeting permit quite a bit then a 9wt is a better choice. Once you get a little experience a 9wt will handle a 70-80 tarpon without too much trouble. But if 90% of the time your catching slot size reds and trout the 9wt is really too much. You could liken that to using a 10-25lb spinning rod verses an 8-17lb rod. The 10-25 is fish-able, but will be a tad stiff for the typical baits you use and over power most of the fish you catch, but will handle that less frequent larger fish better than the 8-17lb rig. If you're often casting at spooky reds the 9wt is going to be tougher to manage a delicate presentation with too verses an 8wt. On the other hand, if you plan to fish for snook a lot, then trying to turn them away from structure a 9wt or even 10wt is better. Theres a lot to consider but I think you'd probably be happier with an 8wt for the first outfit.

Ditto on the TFO Series 1 slower action too. I agree completely, its easier for someone to learn to fly cast with a rod that loads deeper into the mid and butt section of the rod. The timing of the cast slows down so you have more time to see, feel and react to whats going on. Again, the higher powered rods of today really speed things up, so unless you buy a slower action rod, its not a bad idea to buy a line that is a line class or two above the rated rod weight. The heavier line will come in handy when you want to throw bigger flies or your regular assortment in a stiffer breeze too. 

Although I own a TiCr-X 8wt, I'm also one of the TiCr proponents, fantastic rod for $210. 

Hopefully, like most of us you'll learn to love fly fishing and end up buying a range of different outfits over time, so you'll have good choices when conditions warrant.


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## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

> Hopefully, like most of us you'll learn to love fly fishing and end up buying a range of different outfits over time, so you'll have good choices when conditions warrant.



Out of all the different facets of fly fishing, I've determined buying a range of different outfits is the most difficult part. The wife never seems to understand.  ;D


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## Spook (Apr 6, 2007)

> Although I own a TiCr-X 8wt, I'm also one of the TiCr proponents, fantastic rod for $210.


I have a good condition TiCr 8 weight. Wanna trade?  I really like the X's.

Forgot to mention the overlining. You'll definitely be able to feel the rod load better if you overline the TiCr or TiCr-X. An 8 weight TiCr will bomb a 9 weight line. It's like a different rod. Stick to the listed weights for the slower TFO's though. 

My outfits are basic. I'm sticking to long sleeve t-shirts until I finish my FS18. I promised myself I would never show up decked out in Columbia gear in a beat-to-hell 12 ft. jon boat. It's strictly a t-shirt type of craft. ;D

Elie


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## 10MMGary (Sep 14, 2007)

Lil Tate I will send you a PM regarding a 9wt 9ft fly rod. Mulletboy on the Capt Mel site referred me to this site and I just registered.
10MMGary aka Gman on Mels site, aka TotchBrown on paddlefishing.com


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Welcome to the forum [smiley=beer.gif]


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

If its ok I would like to add my opinon to this conversation. If I was you I would buy the best you can afford. I got my first flyfishing outfit passed down to me after my grandfather passed away. The first rod was an 8wt, 2 piece, Loomis G3. Also got a Sage, 2 piece, 10wt. I bought a Redington SVIII reel in the 7-8 wt. Reel was $100. Also bought the Scientific Angler starter flyline 8 wt. for $30. The whole set-up worked very well.......until a year later. The reel turned out to be pretty crappy, and corroded. Since then I traded a Loomis baitcaster with a shimano calcutta reel for a brand new Scott S3S, 4 piece, 9 wt and bought a Redington CDL reel for it in the 9-10wt. This set-up should last me quite a while. As I lucked into most of my gear......I guess my point is that after fishing the two set-ups I prefer the one I have now and about a $500 difference between the two if I had to buy them brand new. Hopefully I will be buying a 7 wt soon and I am prob. going to get the TFO TiCR-X with the Redington CDL reel. For the mney I dont thnk you can beat it. The internal ferrulle is awesome and the rod seems just like the Scott S3S for half the price. I have only been flyfishing for 2 years or so, like to think I'm pretty good at it, but others on here have much more experience than me and are much more wise on the subject on flyfishing. These things could be debated for hours. All comes down to personal preference. If you are local, go to Titisville to the Fly Fisherman and see Rich or John. You can cast any rod there you like. Cast rods before you buy to see what you like. I hope I formed a rational thought...................


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## YakkinReds (Aug 11, 2007)

When I was in your shoes I came upon a Teton Tioga reel (http://www.tetonflyreels.com/). It has performed really well. When I went to Alaska this summer I used a much more expensive outfit and I can tell you I wish I had my hope setup instead. It's a great reel at a cheap price. For this reel, I'd recommend a 10 wt. for reds/snook. I have the 8 wt. and for some reason this line seems downsized compared to other lines. As far as rods, I have a bottom of the line St. Croix and wouldn't recommend it. It's too stiff for a beginner. You want something with a slower action. Hope this helps


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