# copperhead or inshore 16



## pbjeep (Feb 14, 2009)

Which one of these hulls would be better suited for a four stroke mercury 25 EFI short shaft roughly 150 lbs. Also are there any problems with this motor??? I have found a deal on these and would like to take this opportunity to upgrade from my current skiff which is a liitle outdated and in need of a make over which I do not have time to do.

I really like the copperhead as it is upgradable as you go, but the inshore 16 looks like it will be too. Both hulls have the same wieght, which is strange because the inshore 16 is vacuum infused vs the copperhead which is handlaid. Inshore should be lighter unless the laminates are that different. Both companies and owners have been outstanding in answering questions, I just wanted to get the public oppinion of those who eat sleep and fish from micro's.

Last queston, are there any other skiffs that are in the same price range as these that have the following. 

Things that I need/want in a skiff:


Light weight
Simple
Large decks front and rear
Poling platform (optional)
Stable
6" draft
Storage, storage, storage
Short shaft transom
Tiller/upgradable to side console


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## irlshallow (Oct 16, 2008)

If I understand your question, why do you think vacuum infusion is supposed to be lighter? You can just as easily over saturate a laminate with resin in an infusion process, just like using a resin saturation gun in an 'hand laid' process. Infusion is just a different mfg process, no more, no less.. Like anything else in the right hands, its cool, in the wrong hands, they will give it a bad name in the long run. 

It can be lighter or heavier but its now a mfg catch phrase whereby most people assume its better.

Instead of getting caught up in the mfg 'hype', I'd just go get out in the water in each of the boats and see what fits you. I think either one will handle your 25 just fine.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Don't have any knowledgeable input on either skiff; they both look like winners.

I can offer some insight as to the motor, though as I've been running one for a few months now. If it's used, be sure to get the serial # and call merc as for an opinion on the history of the motor. Getting a motor that is currently under warranty would be a huge plus IMHO, as these things look more like a Ferrari under the hood than an outboard. Repairs can be expensive... Would be tough to troubleshoot for the average boater, unlike a carbed 2-stroke. 

If you can deal with the weight issue, there is nothing not to like about this motor.

-T


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

I don't think anyone knows about the inshore 16 yet, as it's brand new. It seems people love their Copperheads though. I'm sure both are great boats.

Take your list of needs, then compare both boats objectively. Then, go test ride each they way you would rig them, and see if that objective list still holds water.


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## pbjeep (Feb 14, 2009)

Well if an infusion is done right and the resin supply bucket is lower than the part resin will not siphon or gravity feed into the part and it will not become resin rich. Or if the vacuum pressure is not on full vacuum you could have accessive resin pooling under the bag. I agree a resin rich infusion would be about the same weight as a hand lay-up. The whole purpose to infuse a boat is for the strength to weight ratio and to achieve a higher fiber content as well as have an unlimited lay up time. I was just looking at the two boats and find it strange that they both have same weight using the different mfg processes.


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

My only concern with the inshore skiff is that the decks are fastened by an adhesive. I woul imagine that over time, and with hull "flex" there would be some separation maybe. That is where the Copperhead wins, but only because the inshore skiff is new and is yet to be seen and beat-up. I have been on a Copperhead, it was sweet, and they seem to be better with each boat built. I am curious to see whatg happens with the inshore skiff after some guys buy them, have them customized, then post their findings. I imagine it will be a year before anything concrete comes out of it.


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## pbjeep (Feb 14, 2009)

Thanks guys for the replys:

The motor is brand new with the option to purchase extended warranties. I am glad to here that yours is performing well.

I will definately be wet testing a boat before purchasing, and to my knowledge both boats are fairly new. So there is not alot of real world experiences with both. 

Mel has offered a test ride, and I will take him up on it as soon as me and my wife can get on the same work schedule and take a much needed Florida vacation. Again thanks fellas


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

> and to my knowledge both boats are fairly new. So there is not alot of real world experiences with both.


I disagree. Capt. Ron has had a Copperhead for several months and is about a knowledgeable and thorough about boats as a person can be. There are definitely more real world experiences with one over the other.


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## pbjeep (Feb 14, 2009)

I am not sure when the copperhead came to be but there are not that many of them out there. The reports and I have read about the cooperhead have been very through, and I feel that this may indeed be the boat the I wind up with. One more question, I know that the copperhead is offered with a 20" transom and a 15 " transom... Does any one have one with a 15" short shaft transom if so do you have any pics.


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## irlshallow (Oct 16, 2008)

I have to disagree on a point about infusion. the whole point about infusion has to do with emissions, its a closed molding process. Hand laid is an open molding process. And also repeatability. Glass to resin ratio is what it is regardless of how it gets there. Some of the integral transfer media in the infusion process will hold a huge amount of resin,just like a core mat would in a hand laid process. Either of which just dont belong in a microskiff.


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

That was always my thoughts on vacuum infusion when i first heard about it years ago. I guess if it helps sell boats it's a plus too.

There's nothing wrong with hand laid hulls, unless their built by monkies with chopper guns, and even those have their place.


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## pbjeep (Feb 14, 2009)

That is what peel ply is for, to remove process materials like flow media, inka channel, etc... Emissions is important but not a reason for a small skiff manufacturer to convert to it. EPA will one day require closed molding. 

Repeatability is what I am talking about with fiber content. You can repeat a 60 glass 40 resin ratio and achieve a lighter wieght part. 

I am well aware that there are 1000's of ways to infuse and for various reasons, I am just going by weight alone here but an infused panel 
12" by 12" solid laminate 
with 5 layers of e-glass
laid at 0, 90, +45, -45, and 0 
infused at max vac (30")
will weigh less and have higher physical properties than a hand lay up given the same size and type of glass resin and number of layers


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Many years ago when Dupont was experimenting with fiberglass and resins,
they actually built steel hull molds, male and female.
they laid the resin wet fiberglass in the female mold,
then clamped in the male mold, and heated the whole assembly.
They were testing for the best ratio resin to glass.
When they figured it out, it was easy to tell, when you tapped the
hull after it was out of the mold, it rang like a bell.
Just a bit of trivia.


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## pbjeep (Feb 14, 2009)

Sounds like the old resin impregnators compression molding, where they lay wet glass into the mold already saturated. I am sure there was air traped inbetween, sounds intresting though and I never knew Dupont was testing resin/glass learned something new. 

70% glass 30% resin is about the best for both strength and weight from what I have seen.

Any way I did not post this up as a discussion about infused vs handlay, but just a poll (if you will) about if you were going to run a four stroke on one of these skiffs for summer redfishing in MS marsh which would you choose and why?


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## 1BadPFS (Aug 18, 2007)

I'm not impressed by the front chine area and keel at the waterline of the inshore 16, they look kind of thrown together. That, and I would rather trust a company that is laying boats up the old school way with close controls. too many variables still with an infused boat. I seriously doubt inshore would throw away a hull that has some overly wet, or, worse yet, dry spots in it if they are only charging 4k-ish for them and trying to make money.


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## pescador72 (Aug 6, 2008)

I am glad you asked that question. If you decide on the Copperhead...Please take it from me as I made this mistake.

I purchased my Johnson short shaft about 3 months before ordering my Copperhead. The biggest and only regret I have with my Copperhead is that I had Mel cut the transom down to 15 from 20 inches. The 20" inches looks better and cleaner. Look at my previous pics.








I installed a CMC PT-35 tilt and trim shortly after getting the boat. I discovered about 5 days ago that I installed it 5 inches too high. That is why, I was getting 1 miles an hour less and some prop blowout, once I would trim it up even slightly from it's' lowest position. So now I have a conversion kit on order. Hopefully this will improve performance and I'll get the mile back and maybe 1 or 2 more once trimmed. Right now I am rockin at 21 mph where as before the CMC TNT was doing 22mph. 

Point being, whatever boat you get, and especially if you go with the Copperhead,  I would highly recommend at long shaft. They are much more common then the short shaft which are a dying breed in my opinion.


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## ko (Jun 9, 2007)

pbjeep,  I just went through the same process over the last 1.5 years thought I made my decision before the Inshore came out...had to choose based on drawings and plans.  I ended up going with the Dragonfly Emerger which is bagged.  I had to pay more, but boat came with everything so I did not have to keep paying to add stuff and upgrade.  I have not ridden in your two possible choices, but the Emerger has a lot of bow flare and deadrise all the way to the stern and rides wonderfully for a light and small boat.  Had more freeboard and a deeper cockpit.  I have the same motor on my you are getting...25 Merc 4-stroke...and I can just squeeze 30 MPH out of my boat when I am in it by myself.  Also the trailer is first class...torsion, all stainless and AL, LED lights, etc.  I can launch without putting the hubs in the water.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1232478576/0#0

There is a video of an Inshore here...looks pretty nice but might need trim tabs...and the poling platform is way too small for an older guy like me...I'd fall off for sure! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD4zDzdQXBs


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## SKIFFGUY (Jan 14, 2008)

Hey guys,

I just wanted to make a point. Resin infusion is simply a delivery system for resin. Yes it compacts the fibers when the process takes place, among other things but the base is simple - resin delivery. What is better - Hand layup, or Infusion...well basically depends who is asking and for what reason. Both methods produce great parts. Compare it to concrete... steel and concrete make up a column right ? Steel is to the column as the glass rienforcement is to the laminate. Now we can carry the concrete in a bucket, wheel barrow, or pump it from the truck right ? We can transfer resin with our spray guns, buckets, cups, or we can 'pump' it in (RTM) or 'suck' it in (Infusion) regardless... it transfers the resin to the part being made....  Yes I know it can get complex... 

BTW, using adhesives to fasten parts is a non-issue. Try pulling a part off a skiff that was gluesd with 5200, or Plexus after it cures....it is not a pretty site. 

We are working on getting up a LOT of photos and drawing that would answer a lot of the questions asked about the 16. We have storage box in rear, rear deck can be hinged to access it... 
Good luck whatever you do.... happy fishing    

One more thing - If the CH weighs 350 as stated - it is lighter than our 16. We weighed the hull and it came in at 425. The was done with a reliable scale with boat hanging from it in the shop.


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

> BTW, using adhesives to fasten parts is a non-issue. Try pulling a part off a skiff that was gluesd with 5200, or Plexus after it cures....it is not a pretty site.


I imagine it wouldnt be, but the fact is that it can be done. Try pulling apart a deck that is glassed on. I think my point has been made. Not trying to pick a fight. I like your boat. I am just anxious to hear the reviews after guys put it to the test. Time will tell.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Review of the Copperhead will be online in a few weeks.


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## pbjeep (Feb 14, 2009)

Plexus is some bad stuff. It is used to test skin to core bonds and when it finally does break loose watch out. 

Infusion, handlay, chopper gun, etc... all have their advantages and disadvantages 

Thanks for the replies guys, can't wait to read all the reviews and take some wet tests.

BTW, fishing report: 1 24" red, 1 19" speck, 1 16" flounder(******* slam) and very cold here in south MS


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## element (Dec 25, 2008)

I did alot of looking before ordering my Copperhead from Mel. I called and talked to several builders, I traveled to the Keys to look at both new and used skiffs and then went and took a test ride with Mel at Ankona. When I saw the boat I was just about sold and after the ride we went back to the shop and started picking out options and colors. I have been back to the shop to see a finished boat and to make some small changes on mine. I am going with many options and Mel and Rory were very helpful in making choices. I should be taking delivery in the near future and am very happy with my choice. If you would have any specific questions it would be best to email me at [email protected] I would be happy to offer any help I could Good luck with your search George


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## capt_gordon (Sep 10, 2007)

I have Copperhead #1 and could not be happier. With the tweaks Mel has added here and there since I got mine it is looking even better.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Just spoke with Mel today and saw the Copperhead up close at the Tampa Trib Expo. Buy it.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Copperhead Review is online for all of those who don't check out the home page... ;D


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

Nice review Jan.


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## phishphood (Dec 15, 2006)

> Nice review Jan.


x2


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