# Whats the worst you ever run a ground??



## biochemken (Jul 26, 2012)

This should be a great thread for entertainment!

A while back I took my brother and a good friend out to Chokoloskee for a day of fishing. I was feeling pretty confident after having a nice day of catching trout and snook, but in reality it was only my 3rd trip there, the first without an experienced person on board. We fished a little too late, and it was getting toward dark... well, you can probably guess what happened. I found the channel back into the islands to head back to the marina, but got out of it quickly and ran aground. There was no small amount of cussing from me as we were on a strong outgoing tide, and three of us were trying to push an 18 ft Sea Squirt back into the channel. We did get back okay, but I haven't been back since! In hindsight though, with that tide, I should have used it as an excuse to fish till the tide turned. But then there's the 747 sized mosquitoes...


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

I've been thinking of just standing on georges bar in Mosquito some days and seeing how many people run into it.

Apparently birds standing up is not an indicator of shallow water to some people.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

Ha! Yeah I have seen birds standing before too! I think to myself "I'm in the channel, but they are about 40 feet away and a birds leg is like 5 inches. Then my butt puckers up and I'm like should I floor it and turn around or just......"


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

They are Jesus birds. They walk on water.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

While following a track line (were you have been) on any gps you need to zoom in pretty far to make sure you stay on it. At 1000' scale it is very easy to interpret that you are on or very very close to the track line and actually be 50' off it I have 50 channel 4 Hz refresh Humminbird gps, for the most part it is spot on. However any gps can be off position without warning. Also, the refresh rate is very important and gains in importance the faster you go. At 30 MPH you are covering 44 fps, if your gps update once per second you have nearly matched the margin of error in a 60' wide channel.

My Sea Squirt bares the scar of an oyster bar on the pad that brought me to an abrupt complete stop at Suwannee. Had there been someone else in the boat they would have made it to Alligator pass but the boat would have been 30' feet or so back. The gap I was shooting for is about 40 ft wide and I missed it by 10 ft.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Run aground? What's that?   Still afloat!


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## seachas (May 9, 2012)

beware the birds with the dry ass


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> While following a track line (were you have been) on any gps you need to zoom in pretty far to make sure you stay on it. At 1000' scale it is very easy to interpret that you are on or very very close to the track line and actually be 50' off it  I have 50 channel 4 Hz refresh Humminbird gps, for the most part it is spot on. However any gps can be off position without warning. Also, the refresh rate is very important and gains in importance the faster you go. At 30 MPH you are covering 44 fps, if your gps update once per second you have nearly matched the margin of error in a 60' wide channel.
> 
> My Sea Squirt bares the scar of an oyster bar on the pad that brought me to an abrupt complete stop at Suwannee. Had there been someone else in the boat they would have made it to Alligator pass but the boat would have been 30' feet or so back.  The gap I was shooting for is about 40 ft wide and I missed it by 10 ft.


Wow good point! yeah I zoomed in pretty good but I guess not good enough.lol
Thinking of another GPS/Fish finder combo


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

Brett, the operative word here is run. Are you in the boat?


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

When running shallow I don't pay attention to my GPS at all, I use the mental land marks while coming in only. I would be lying if I said I have never ran a ground but it's the way I was taught and works for me. 

Now getting stranded becasue I stayed in a creek to long catching fish is another story, had to stay till about 1am on a mud flat 1 time waiting for the tide. :'( with no bug spray!


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## swaddict (Dec 19, 2009)

worst for me was a few years ago in the ML, went out on a chilly winter afternoon. The water was sheet glass and it was overcast and patchy fog. I was running the edge of Tiger (prior to the pvc poles being installed), heading south keeping the buoys to my left. I rounded the most westerly tip and stopped in about 3 inches of water. It took me almost an hour of lifting and pushing my 17T off the shoal. After I was able to get into deeper water, I looked across the channel and noticed that a buoy had washed up on one of the clinker islands. That is when I found out that my skiff will run shallower than it will float.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> When running shallow I don't pay attention to my GPS at all, I use the mental land marks while coming in only. I would be lying if I said I have never ran a ground but it's the way I was taught and works for me.
> 
> Now getting stranded becasue I stayed in a creek to long catching fish is another story, had to stay till about 1am on a mud flat 1 time waiting for the tide.  :'( with no bug spray!


Mental land marks I wished worked in the Delta.  plus the water is usually brown and cant see the bottom. If you run it one day and the tide is out you can navigate with some ease.  When the tide is in you have a 50/50 shot in running a ground pretty quick from what I have heard and seen first hand lol.  There just isnt really anything to go by unless you use GPS.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

> Run aground? What's that?   Still afloat!



Concur.  My current skiff has a 7 1/2" tunnel.  I just drive where ever there is water.  I generally look for oyster shells sticking above water, and seagulls that arent swimming, but other than that.  Its all fair game.    With a 9.5" Diameter Prop, the skeg is only 4" below the bottom of the boat.  In mud, it skimms just like a skim board at the beach.  I need about 1-2" for there to be enough water to pull into the tunnel.  But if I come down off plane, or get too shallow and the tunnel loses suction, I am Screwed cause I need about 4 to float when there is no one in it. 7 with 2.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> > Run aground? What's that?   Still afloat!
> 
> 
> 
> Concur.  My current skiff has a 7 1/2" tunnel.  I just drive where ever there is water.  I generally look for oyster shells sticking above water, and seagulls that arent swimming, but other than that.  Its all fair game.    With a 9.5" Diameter Prop, the skeg is only 4" below the bottom of the boat.  In mud, it skimms just like a skim board at the beach.  I need about 1-2" for there to be enough water to pull into the tunnel.  But if I come down off plane, or get too shallow and the tunnel loses suction, I am Screwed cause I need about 4 to float when there is no one in it. 7 with 2.


Cwright that is scary! Even if my boat had a tunnel I would be scared to do that. I have seen oysters below the surface in about 12 inchs of water "brown water" where my boat will run while on plane. My next will be a tunnel for sure. Im still going to install and atlas micro jack for this boat shortly too.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> > When running shallow I don't pay attention to my GPS at all, I use the mental land marks while coming in only. I would be lying if I said I have never ran a ground but it's the way I was taught and works for me.
> >
> > Now getting stranded becasue I stayed in a creek to long catching fish is another story, had to stay till about 1am on a mud flat 1 time waiting for the tide.  :'( with no bug spray!
> 
> ...


There are always land marks some where, even if there 2 miles aways how do you think people did it before a GPS. The water doesn't get any more brown than Northeast Florida I promise you that!


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> > > When running shallow I don't pay attention to my GPS at all, I use the mental land marks while coming in only. I would be lying if I said I have never ran a ground but it's the way I was taught and works for me.
> > >
> > > Now getting stranded becasue I stayed in a creek to long catching fish is another story, had to stay till about 1am on a mud flat 1 time waiting for the tide.  :'( with no bug spray!
> >
> ...


Hmm not sure about the water in Northeast FL, but I grew up around Northwest FL and it aint got nothing on the beef stew water I have seen over here in the Mobile Delta. Land Marks work great for coming into passes and so do stars done it myself before. However to me its a different story when you are running in 1 ft vs 5 ft of water and all water looks the same regardless if you can mark it by shore. At a distance of a mile with a marker like a loading crane off in the distance how can you tell if you have to make a couple tight bends and curves with the tide covering up all the flats without GPS not sure how you do that and at dusk for that matter.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> Brett, the operative word here is run. Are you in the boat?



I can run all around the Slipper when it's that shallow. [smiley=happy.gif]

I've been trapped in the creek behind the bar at low tide.
Tilt the outboard up, get behind the boat and run/push
the Slipper up and over the damp sand, on the skin of water
trapped between the flat bottom hull and the sand bar.
Like the man said who saw me do it:
"like whomp boarding across wet grass from puddle to puddle."


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Been high and dry too many times to count but they are always sandbars.

Best one was after a Saturday lunch at JBs. I was feeling especially brave and turned into a favorite mosquito canal only to come from WOT to an abrupt stop in about a 1/2 inch of water. My fishing partner RonW took it in stride. He didn't seem to think this was out of the norm for me ;D

Another especially good one was off Sanibel. My friend Reid was pushing his Hells Bay Whipray off of a sand flat. It was shallow but I may have had some liquid bravery going. I decieded I would circle him at an appropriate distance to show how a shallow boat runs. Needless to say it was a little shallower than I thought and I ended up high and dry. He still doesn't let me live that one down. ;D


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> I can run all around the Slipper when it's that shallow.


Anyone can run an empty boat. Some of us like to go a little faster and a little further ;D


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> Been high and dry too many times to count but they are always sandbars.
> 
> Best one was after a Saturday lunch at JBs. I was feeling especially brave and turned into a favorite mosquito canal only to come from WOT to an abrupt stop in about a 1/2 inch of water. My fishing partner RonW took it in stride. He didn't seem to think this was out of the norm for me  ;D
> 
> Another especially good one was off Sanibel. My friend Reid was pushing his Hells Bay Whipray off of a sand flat. It was shallow but I may have had some liquid bravery going. I decieded I would circle him at an appropriate distance to show how a shallow boat runs. Needless to say it was a little shallower than I thought and I ended up high and dry. He still doesn't let me live that one down.  ;D


HAHAHA liquid courage is enough to get anyone in trouble! That is funny trying to circle him.. made me spit out my water..lol


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> > > > When running shallow I don't pay attention to my GPS at all, I use the mental land marks while coming in only. I would be lying if I said I have never ran a ground but it's the way I was taught and works for me.
> > > >
> > > > Now getting stranded becasue I stayed in a creek to long catching fish is another story, had to stay till about 1am on a mud flat 1 time waiting for the tide.  :'( with no bug spray!
> > >
> ...


Trust me the St. Johns isn't clear by anymeans beef stew color would be a good name for it, I regualry fish and run big boats in Mobile. I also visit my grandfather who has been a Captian for 45+ years and still runs tugs and barges out of AL, LA, TX. and the color over there isn't any worse. 

Like I said it is just the way I was taught, I fish with some guys and when on there boat all they use is the GPS and when they are on my boat they usually ask are you going to turn your GPS on. I use to fish with my unlce and he would run 30 miles offshore with nothing but a compass and a wrist watch, Using nothing but DED and set and drift to put us on the bottom, it's just the way I was taught nothing wrong with using your GPS!


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> > > > > When running shallow I don't pay attention to my GPS at all, I use the mental land marks while coming in only. I would be lying if I said I have never ran a ground but it's the way I was taught and works for me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now getting stranded becasue I stayed in a creek to long catching fish is another story, had to stay till about 1am on a mud flat 1 time waiting for the tide.  :'( with no bug spray!
> > > >
> ...


Man Creek Runner I need to get up with you to fish St Johns when I come around there during the summer months. I fished St Andrews bay in Panama City couple of times and wanted to make that drive a littel further to fish St Johns. Then you can show me how to not rely on my GPS ;D and I wont have to spend any more money on more electronics lol! My bank account would thank you too! I still would be very leery on running in these shallows without them. To much to hit that I have seen.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> > > > > > When running shallow I don't pay attention to my GPS at all, I use the mental land marks while coming in only. I would be lying if I said I have never ran a ground but it's the way I was taught and works for me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now getting stranded becasue I stayed in a creek to long catching fish is another story, had to stay till about 1am on a mud flat 1 time waiting for the tide.  :'( with no bug spray!
> > > > >
> ...


Anytime you want to come your more than welcome. I didn't say I never ran a ground it's just they way I did it.  , Heck I don't even use my GPS at night when I'm gigging, I gig all of Hannah mill flats, Clapboard creek, Mill Cove all at night with nothing but the moon baby! maybe I should use my GPS might save my skeg more often!  ;D


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Cwright that is scary! Even if my boat had a tunnel I would be scared to do that. I have seen oysters below the surface in about 12 inchs of water "brown water" where my boat will run while on plane. My next will be a tunnel for sure. Im still going to install and atlas micro jack for this boat shortly too.

Check out Mobile Fiber Plastics on Halls Mill Rd.  They build "ultra light tunnel boats"  They were originally designed for duck hunting the delta, but we have retrofitted them with a poling platform and they are awesome flats skiffs for up here.   They are a no frills, tough as wood pecker lips, bad a$$ marsh boat.  The one I am building now is going to be the same concept, except with a v bow and a few extra feet for straighter poling.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> Cwright that is scary!  Even if my boat had a tunnel I would be scared to do that.  I have seen oysters below the surface in about 12 inchs of water "brown water" where my boat will run while on plane.  My next will be a tunnel for sure.  Im still going to install and atlas micro jack for this boat shortly too.
> 
> Check out Mobile Fiber Plastics on Halls Mill Rd.  They build "ultra light tunnel boats"  They were originally designed for duck hunting the delta, but we have retrofitted them with a poling platform and they are awesome flats skiffs for up here.   They are a no frills, tough as wood pecker lips, bad a$$ marsh boat.  The one I am building now is going to be the same concept, except with a v bow and a few extra feet for straighter poling.


Is that what Jason S. "JS Outdoors"uses? It looks like a stable little rig. Lets get up and fish buddy.


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## bw510 (Sep 1, 2011)

> Run aground? What's that?   Still afloat!


Thats whats nice about a little boat with little power 
not enough speed to really get stuck and if you hit there isn't much or any damage to your boat,motor or grass


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Ive done my share, although never stuck high n dry. My area is all sand bars so its not so bad. I honestly feel bad for you guys with oyster bars... I would probably have an aluminum boat for thos areas, noisy or not


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

Of course landmarks/dead reckoning works well when you fish the same area all your life. Most likely developed those marks by running aground. Mental landmarks are more accurate the more times they are used, repetition is the key. 

What mental landmarks do you use when you have never been to an area and all you have are charts to go on? What mental landmarks do you use when the fog sets in. 

Now, if someone is telling me they can stay within 60' path from a land mark 2 miles away I'd have to call BS. Even if that path is/was straight as an arrow. I'd also have to call BS on someone telling me that they can always return back down the exact same path on the water having only been on the way out once.

JBryan, the highest precision and best accuracies being obtained with recreational FF gps are from ones with external antenna. These also have the faster refresh rates. Hb's get 4 Hz, Lowrance get 5 Hz, and Garmin is supposed to have one that is 20 Hz. The faster the refresh rate the better resolution you can get in non straight line paths.

Make sure you have enabled WAAS on your eagle, on my eagle you had to go in to the setup menu and select it. It also had an alarm for when WAAS dropped. Sucks to hear it go off but better to know than not know.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

> Ive done my share, although never stuck high n dry. My area is all sand bars so its not so bad. I honestly feel bad for you guys with oyster bars... I would probably have an aluminum boat for thos areas, noisy or not


Cut, you just have to grow a set. I'll take sand and oysters over Turkish coffee thick mud any day.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

If you have ever run the Lagoon area, north to south, then you probably have run a ground. I see it all the time. Good times to sit at Whales Tail after a long day of fishing and watch the bigger flats boats try and make the short cut.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

I bet pops was using mental landmarks.   ;D


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

> I bet pops was using mental landmarks.   ;D



Thats Mike. haha yea. 

http://alabamafloatfishing.blogspot.com/2007/10/lasarge-14-tunnel-v-jon.html

here is more about that boat.


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

If you ain't been aground, you ain't been around. 
It's gonna happen, especially around here where the water looks like yoohoo most of the year. but lots of times you can tell before its too late (birds, water surface changes, prop wash, etc). 
You are in a small, light boat and those oysters do alot less damage than it sounds like. 
I try not to explore unknown water on a falling tide. That can make for a long day if you don't have enough beer to wait for the water to come up.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Just ran aground this past Saturday, at the mouth of the Little Manatee river.  ;D  It was a crazy low tide, freezing cold, and with my brother egging me on:  "Dude, that's why you bought this boat!"  Flew across the flat and just lost my nerve, I mean it was skinny.  All sand/clay, no sea grass, took her off plane and plowed the skeg.  Just paint scraped, prop fine.  It takes some serious cojones to run that shallow...


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Maybe it is different in Florida, but in my experience, a GPS would be useless in the marsh other than to tell you the exact coordinates of where you are lost.  The marsh in Louisiana changes a significantly every year and a lot every hurricane, so the charts that the GPS references were obsolete soon after they were made six to ten years ago.  We navigated by Braille, i.e. we felt around until we bumped something. 

Most civilian GPS signals are degraded. My Forerunner is accurate +/- 10 meters.  They generally are set to refresh once a second unless you fiddle with it.  As an experiment, I slept with my Garmin Forerunner on my arm soon after I received it. According to it, I covered 1.5 miles from dusk 'til dawn while I was asleep. Threading the needle on a 20 foot wide channel across a mile wide mud flat takes a bit more detail than that even when you are backtracking yourself.

The most vivid memory I have was of my dad following a winding channel through a flat with a bay boat driven by a friend following us. I just happened to be looking when our friend took a turn too wide and that big white vee-hull rose out of the water like a great white whale until it slowed down enough to tip off its keel. Fortunately we had five guys between the two boats, so getting it pushed back to the deep water wasn't difficult. We've gotten stuck worse but it was always intentional.

:-[

Nate


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> > Ive done my share, although never stuck high n dry. My area is all sand bars so its not so bad. I honestly feel bad for you guys with oyster bars... I would probably have an aluminum boat for thos areas, noisy or not
> 
> 
> Cut, you just have to grow a set.  I'll take sand and oysters over Turkish coffee thick mud any day.


But her bottom is so smooth and shiny!!

But honestly my hull layup is 2 layers of thin chop strand,half inch foam core then one layer of thin surfboard fiberglass on the inside. Ide sink if we had oysters here...
My hull gets strength from the design and shape, not its lamination schedule lol.
Its actually annoying sometimes


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## Ckirk57 (Sep 27, 2009)

I live and fish in the Ozello area, when you run aground here it is in no way forgiving. You will be buying a new gear case. This place is one large limerock that's hard as steel. I have done my fair share of damage and paid my dues.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

These are great keep them coming!
Still what GPS do you use I know I still like to explore with maps and at low tide right before the tide turns.  That way you can find the channels and also if you do get high and dry you can wait for the tide to come in.  I'm glad my Mitzi will float in 4-6 inches I know I've tested it.  So it's light enough to push off as well.


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## nightfly (Jul 7, 2011)

I ran aground pretty hard on the east side of cape Romano running south. It was an extremely low January tide and I thought I was in the channel but missed it by about 5 feet. My buddy was standing up and not holding on to anything. We were going about 18-20 and came to a dead stop. He went out of the boat. Luckily it was a soft bottom and not a oyster bar and he did a roll out of the boat and didn't get hurt. He was soaked but managed to keep his cigarettes dry.


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## FSUfisher (Jul 16, 2007)

My worst just happened a couple of days ago, when I also realized that sometimes you cannot go by memory or landmarks. Was rounding a bend in Clapboard Creek here in Jacksonville, full speed because I was late getting in to go to NYE festivities, and saw a couple guys poling and flyfishing from an IPB. I decided to give them as much room as possible so I decided to hug the sandbar that juts out into the middle of the bend. It's easily seen when there's wind, current and/ or birds. At dusk with a slack tide and no wind my indicators were missing.

I slammed into the sandbar going about 32 mph and it's the fastest I've ever come to a stop. My poor girlfriend and my tacklebox went flying. When I jumped down into the water it was about three inches deep, which was actually nice since it was getting cold out and i was wearing jeans..

Basically pride kicked in and somehow got me off of that sandbar after about twenty minutes of crabwalking the boat. My back is still paying for it though.

To the guy with the IPB: hopefully you didn't laugh too hard at me. You're welcome.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Wish I had a nickel (and a bit of video) of the many times I've run aground in one skiff or other. I've even managed to run aground driving someone else's boat... I've had skiffs that, if you ran aground.... you could pick it up and go find water - and I've run boats where you were going to be waiting for the tide (or you weren't going anywhere)...

The worst case I was solo exploring (thank heavens no anglers aboard....) at least 30 miles from Flamingo (and about 34 miles from Chokoloskee....). I was up on some mudflats well off a small river looking for places where you might find fish in winter up really shallow and poling along quietly when I realized that not only I'd misjudged the tide but it was dropping really fast and I wasn't going to make it back to the channel. Sure enough I was aground and going nowhere anytime soon. The water continued to drain out and soon I couldn't see a drop of water anywhere... and it was summertime, with all that implies in the 'Glades. After saying a few choice words and double checking to find that I might have enough water to float just before dark... I got out my raingear and suited up to save me from the skeeters that were surely on their way... As I got ready for a three hour nap I heard the first alligator coming out of the bush... Yep, for several hours I got to see big 'gator after 'gator slither by my skiff over the mud on their way to where the water had gone.... Not much fun at all but I never had to defend my skiff from one... so once they'd passed by I finally did get some sleep. As the sun went down the water came back in and I was anxiously waiting to be able to pole to a nearby ditch and then motor back out... As the sun was going down the only way I could move the skiff at all was to get out of it and push through the mud (while thinking about 'gators...) about 70feet to where we were floating properly again. I left that river to make the long run back to Flamingo in total darkness and only had the ghost of Totch Brown for company. Back at Flamingo by around 10:30 pm I actually finally got home around midnight... Not my finest moment. Aren't boats fun?


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

> Wish I had a nickel (and a bit of video) of the many times I've run aground in one skiff or other.  I've even managed to run aground driving someone else's boat...  I've had skiffs that, if you ran aground.... you could pick it up and go find water - and I've run boats where you were going to be waiting for the tide (or you weren't going anywhere)...
> 
> The worst case I was solo exploring (thank heavens no anglers aboard....) at least 30 miles from Flamingo (and about 34 miles from Chokoloskee....).  I was up on some mudflats well off a small river looking for places where you might find fish in winter up really shallow and poling along quietly when I realized that not only I'd misjudged the tide but it was dropping really fast and I wasn't going to make it back to the channel.  Sure enough I was aground and going nowhere anytime soon.  The water continued to drain out and soon I couldn't see a drop of water anywhere... and it was summertime, with all that implies in the 'Glades.  After saying a few choice words and double checking to find that I might have enough water to float just before dark... I got out my raingear and suited up to save me from the skeeters that were surely on their way... As I got ready for a three hour nap I heard the first alligator coming out of the bush... Yep, for several hours I got to see big 'gator after 'gator slither by my skiff over the mud on their way to where the water had gone....  Not much fun at all but I never had to defend my skiff from one... so once they'd passed by I finally did get some sleep.  As the sun went down the water came back in and I was anxiously waiting to be able to pole to a nearby ditch and then motor back out... As the sun was going down the only way I could move the skiff at all was to get out of it and push through the mud (while thinking about 'gators...) about 70feet to where we were floating properly again.  I left that river to make the long run back to Flamingo in total darkness and only had the ghost of Totch Brown for company.  Back at Flamingo by around 10:30 pm I actually finally got home around midnight...  Not my finest moment.  Aren't boats fun?


All those glades stories make me glad I fish in a lagoon which has no real tides.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm not promoting one product over another it just happens to be what I use and have handy a scatter plot for HB.

Most people do not understand GPS accuracy and precision. The vast majority of manufacturers of gps used for rec fishing use circular error probability (CEP) determined by a 24 scatter plot test that describes their GPSs precision (ability to measure the same position each time) to state their GPS's accuracy (ability to measure true position). Most commonly used at the 95% level. Humminbird 50 channel gps is 2.5 Meters 95% CEP.  Civilian GPS Sat signal degradation called Selective Availability (SA) was rescinded in 2000. In 2003 the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS) became active, WAAS uses high accuracy ground based survey positions to transmit correction signals to compensate for atmospheric signal attenuation of GPS sat signals. These corrections are updated at least every 5 minutes and can be more frequent. WAAS has proven to be accurate to 1 meter (39") or better. On HB GPS receivers the WAAS sats are listed by their NMEA#' 46,48, and 51. They may be listed by their PRN's on other units 133, 135, and 138. Look on you GPS's sat information screen for these sats to make sure they are being used. On HB's the signal bars are grey if just being tracked and black if being used to report position, most GPSs used this color schema. HB calls the position fix "Enhanced" when WAAS signals are being used, and "3D" when more than 4 sats are used, and "2D" 3 sats are being used.

What does this all mean to us? Lets look at some charts. The first chart is a 24 hour stationary scatter plot for HB's 50 channel  WAAS enabled AS-GR50 GPS receiver. This chart contains 86,400 position plots (once per second for 24 hours). 95% of those 86,400 plots (82,080) are within 8.2' of the actual position. 50% of the plots are 1 Meter (39") or less from the actual position. It is generally accepted that GPS is more accurate when moving than standing still.

The second chart show a HB GPS diagnostics page (not mine). 
My boat is in my garage and the receiver is 18' in the garage and 4' from my AC unit outside and generally will get an EPE of 4'. If I enter the positions shown on my GPS in Google earth and measure that position the distance from the AC unit and the front of the garage it is spot on when WAAS sats are locked on. It will vary 2' in either direction N to S and 3' E to W. 

The 3 rd chart is the effects on CEP after SA was turned off.

The 4th chat shows the location of WAAS stations.

You need to know the capabilities of your GPS receiver and if it has the signals to do to deliver those capabilities.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> I'm not promoting one product over another it just happens to be what I use and have handy a scatter plot for HB.
> 
> Most people do not understand GPS accuracy and precision. The vast majority of manufacturers of gps used for rec fishing use circular error probability (CEP) determined by a 24 scatter plot test that describes their GPSs precision (ability to measure the same position each time) to state their GPS's accuracy (ability to measure true position). Most commonly used at the 95% level. Humminbird 50 channel gps is 2.5 Meters 95% CEP.  Civilian GPS Sat signal degradation called Selective Availability (SA) was rescinded in 2000. In 2003 the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS) became active, WAAS uses high accuracy ground based survey positions to transmit correction signals to compensate for atmospheric signal attenuation of GPS sat signals. These corrections are updated at least every 5 minutes and can be more frequent. WAAS has proven to be accurate to 1 meter (39") or better. On HB GPS receivers the WAAS sats are listed by their NMEA#' 46,48, and 51. They may be listed by their PRN's on other units 133, 135, and 138. Look on you GPS's sat information screen for these sats to make sure they are being used. On HB's the signal bars are grey if just being tracked and black if being used to report position, most GPSs used this color schema. HB calls the position fix "Enhanced" when WAAS signals are being used, and "3D" when more than 4 sats are used, and "2D" 3 sats are being used.
> 
> ...


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

No matter what you get, one with external gps receiver is better than internal. The internals are a lot better than they used to be but still not as good as external. 

In the mean time check your eagle's setup menu for the gps and make sure WAAS is turned on and that the alarm for when WAAS signal is lost is turned on.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> No matter what you get, one with external gps receiver is better than internal. The internals are a lot better than they used to be but still not as good as external.
> 
> In the mean time check your eagle's setup menu for the gps and make sure WAAS is turned on and that the alarm for when WAAS signal is lost is turned on.



Gonna do this when I get home. Hopefully I have this setting.


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

Hey CarolinaJim I went in and set those options for WAAS and Alerts. I also saw that I was zoomed out to .15. I zoomed back in on my track and sure enough what I thought I was following I was off by at least 25 feet from what i can see if not by more. The track actually separated into 2 different lines from one almost solid line. 
I got online tonight and found the legacy site and downloaded the manual which has been missing for a while. When in doubt read the manual..........:


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## HialeahAngler (Dec 18, 2008)

IMO your GPS is not meant for you to gauge how shallow you're running once you're shallower than 2ft. You have to use your eyes and polarized glasses. also look for birds and baby mangroves. for your gps to be accurate you have to zoom all the way down. I learned this years ago when I too ended up in about 3-4 inches in flamingo. luckily we got out and were able to push off the flat though it took 30 minutes due to the mud that would sink you to your waist on every push!


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## JBMitziSkiff (Nov 2, 2012)

> IMO your GPS is not meant for you to gauge how shallow you're running once you're shallower than 2ft. You have to use your eyes and polarized glasses. also look for birds and baby mangroves. for your gps to be accurate you have to zoom all the way down. I learned this years ago when I too ended up in about 3-4 inches in flamingo. luckily we got out and were able to push off the flat though it took 30 minutes due to the mud that would sink you to your waist on every push!


I agree with you on running shallow and never do it by GPS. My whole issue was in trusting my GPS and covering the ground I just went through at idle which was well over 6 feet. It was my mistake that I didn't have a couple of options turned on including WAAS and not zoomed in which I thought I was. I do however use the bottom finder a lot to judge what is shallow and not. In when I do use it I am mostly either poling or at idle when exploring. To me it is pretty dumb to go full bore through the flats not to mention cutting up the grass through prop scars, but here in the delta you are only cutting up thick molasses mud and maybe an oyster or 100. lol


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

My favorite gps story wasn't a story at all since I found the user high and dry on one of the first islands in Whitewater Bay as you run the marker line to cross that big (10miles x 6miles) bay...

This was about three or four years ago, right at dawn, in a light fog and the genius was in a 24 to 26 foot hull - piled up on the island so hard that only the last three or four feet of the hull was still in water...

This craft was a supply boat for one of the group canoeing expeditions in the 'Glades and the operator (with girlfriend along...) had piled up at 9pm the previous night (and had the great fun of spending a night in the bushes with all the mosquitoes in the world.....). What happened is that he wasn't paying attention to his course and then turned his boat to run exactly at marker 14 - not realizing that there was an island in the way (and this wasn't a full moon night... so he never saw the island until moments before impact....). We tried to pull him off but my 17' skiff just didn't have enough to budge him. That big hull was still on the island three or four days later and I'm told that it took three vessels working together to pull him free...

A few years back I used to a free seminar on handheld gps units for anglers at one or two of the local West Marine stores and some of the mis-conceptions I encountered were pretty much out in left field. Yes, they're a great aid to navigation but you still need a compass and a chart or you're asking for trouble... In practical terms the state of the art is nothing short of tremendous. I took an early gps (a Garmin model 12) and entered the numbers of a wreck that's ten miles off of the coast of the Shark River.... After that ten mile run with no visual reference at all we were exactly on top of that 40x80 structure. That sort of navigation just wasn't possible before the advent of gps....


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## ksteinen (Dec 2, 2012)

About 40 years ago I was running an archaeological survey near Crystal River in a small jon boat. We tied up to a shell midden in the marsh for lunch ... after a can of sardines and some warm water and a couple chapters from a Shell Scott book we found the boat high and dry as the tide went out!


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## whatsgoodwitcha (Oct 8, 2012)

ive slept on board before and waited for the tide to come in


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## 'Nano-Skiff' (Aug 27, 2012)

I have a small boat with small power. I hit shell reef after shell reef. GPS would probably be nice but I prefer to just study maps and google earth. I stay scared so I dont try anything crazy. I learn an area and dont try short cuts.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

That's how most of us learned... before gps.


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## captd (Feb 8, 2011)

amen. i didn't have a gps till march of 2011... i love it, but i only use it for certain things... i use my eyes and all i have learned, and what's left of my brain... if everyone in the backcountry relied less solely on the new technology to get around, and honed their senses and was maybe a little more respectful of their surroundings, i think we might have a better fishery and less damage to the beautiful places we're lucky enough to be a part of...


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