# how to choose?



## KeepingItSimple (Mar 20, 2011)

I've watched the copperhead/suv threads with interest. One of them might be a Next Boat for me. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to choose between the two, though. The 17suv and the Cph are similar in draft, beam, length, and hp max. 16'4", 70", 50hp for the cph and 17'2'', 68'', 40hp for the suv. Both can come in side console (my preference). Both have a subtle deadrise at the transom (true, right?). Both can have hatches front and back if desired. Both can have walk around gunnels. Both have a reasonable ride in a little bit of chop.
So how would you characterize the scenario wherein each skiff performs the best, assuming they differ? (i.e., one is a little better crossing the harbor, one is better in the skinny, one is better with 3 anglers, etc) Are there characteristics within either of the skiffs that shine when compared to the other?

Thks.
Alex V


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

I would say that the CH is a more finished flats boat
and the SUV is a basic skiff better for more open water


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

The copperhead is more stable, poles better, a lot more goes into building a copperhead. Everything is finished with a liner. So it looks cleaner. Whereas the SUV cockpit is similar to a Gheenoe with gelcoat and webbing.  I run my copperhead at 38-39mph into a 3' chop without getting any water in the boat. It's the following chop/wind that makes things a little sketchy. The SUV seems to be a quicker hull, but can't take as much power as a copperhead. Personally, I like the copperhead better. That's why I have bought two instead of an SUV. But both are great boats. 

It's pretty much a matter of preference. The SUV is cheaper. More classic look. Compared to a more modern look in the CH. 


By the way, to make it a harder decision for you. Look out for their new "cayenne".
17' tunnel hull skiff


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Both skiffs are top choices right now.  Either way, you will not go wrong.  I have owned a SUV and I absolutely loved it.  The ride over open water is very dry and I liked the openess of the 17 cockpit.  I was able to pole the skiff in 5" of water and it was silent.  The SUV is tippier than the Copperhead.  The Gen2 Copperhead is a great running skiff and performs equally as well as the SUV.  It is going to come down to a matter of preference.  The new Cayenne (IMHO) is going to be the best of both worlds.  Skinny draft, stable, dry ride, great poling, and a beautiful layout.  Plus with increased horsepower capabilities, it will fly. Plus the skiff shares the name with my wife (spelled Cyenne) so you know it is going to be a kick azz skiff.  Who knows what Ankona will come up with next....


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Tunnel time, there's really not going to be much rough water difference between the hulls. They are both small, with very little deadrise and neither are built as rough water capable hulls. 

Running ~40 mph in a true 3' chop (these are waves that are at your beltline when standing, if you're sitting down they are above your eye level) is going to be darned uncomfortable in a 25' Sea Vee, which is made for the ocean. 

Likewise, I would not want to be seen trying to pole a 25' Sea Vee in ankle deep water, which is what the copperhead is designed to do. That's ridiculous. 

Please don't get misdirected by statements on the web thinking you're going to buy a 17' flats boat that can do that. It's a near flat-bottom boat, meaning you will get absolutely, ridiculously pounded in rough water that size. 

I'm not talking you out of the hull, they are very nice boats, and do what they are designed to do very well. But rough water ain't what they're designed for and that should be exceedingly obvious at first glance. 

Don't take my word for it. Reasearch what "deadrise" is (if you don't already know) and find out how it effects a boat's rough water capabilities, draft, and stability at rest. 

If in doubt of what either hull was intended for, check Ankona's website for pics of capabilities. Not a rough water pic around. To go farther, call the factory and ask about running a 17' boat at 40mph into 3' waves and get their opinion. 

*Choose the hull that you like the best based on the rest of the features and how they fit your fishing style and budget. Know they will be similar enough in rough water capabilities that it won't sway your decision one way or the other.*


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I run my boats hard. You can ask many. I run my boat across whitewater bay when it's blowing 30MPH from the west. Ask anyone how bad it gets. And yes, 3' chop. Where one cannot see over the waves.... Granted, it ain't the ride of a Cadillac. But I won't get buckets of water over the bow and I know my skiff can handle it. You're only young once, right? Maybe when I'm older, I won't feel the need to.. But that makes the difference between the people sitting at home wishing they were fishing on a weekend and those of us who are. 
And as for waistline height waves, ask forum member dacuban1 about the time we were caught out in my last Copperhead. When the waves were at the height of our shoulders, not the waistline. Not a single wave over the bow. That was at 23-25mph, though. For all I had was a 30HP, and the prop kept blowing out.
The bigger prop and lower unit on this ETEC allows to still get very good grip when running ontop of a chop at full speed. 

The way I see it is, why would I spend $18K on a skiff that has to be babied? It's hard earned money that I spent on a boat to actually use it. Regardless of the conditions, if I know the skiff can take it, and it's no life threatening. As long as whoever is coming with knows the conditions ahead of time and still chooses to come along. That's why my skiff is insured for 300k Liability and and medical for everyone on board. 
I wont cross Biscayne Bay in 30mph if I don't have to. Trust me, I have had to in the past. And I've told myself I wouldn't allow that to happen to me or anyone who's with me again. 
I've been caught in way too many storms out there to try it again if there's a moderate chance for storms. 

And as for Shadowcast, I know what.  

And for clarification, I said I'll run my skiff into the waves at 39mph.... I have done it the past three weekends.... Running with the wind, or a cross chop, I back off the throttle as I stated in my first post.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> I run my copperhead at 38-39mph into a* 3' chop *without getting any water in the boat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's an over statement!!! Neither one the SUV or Copperhead will run 40 in a 3' chop, and if so it won't do it for long because it's going to come apart. 
How do you look at the new boat Ankona is building (Cayenne) I checked their website and it doesn't mention anything about it?
Tunnel Time Ankona builds nice boats for their intended purpose, just keep in mind they are not the perfect  skiff for everything as some make them out to be. Test ride every boat you are considering and when your done do it again then buy the boat that best suits your needs.
As far as your actual questions I would say the copperhead will outperform the SUV in just about every aspect  other than cost. 
Tight lines


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## telltail (Mar 11, 2007)

Paint it...c'mon man!


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

In all fairness, he never said it was comfortable - just doable.

Pete



> Paint it...c'mon man!


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## swaddict (Dec 19, 2009)

> Paint it...c'mon man!


X2, it's a nice boat but i agree with Tom


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

I have to agree with Paint it black.......I had a 18ft flatsboat seafox with 115hp and YES ......I,do run over 3ft chop wide open in Tampa bay area.... It's how our flatsboat stay top of the chop and not push agaist the chop. It can be done.....

Out in the ocean is totally different story compared to a bay or flats........out on the ocean is much worst in 3ft waves than in the flats with 3ft chop.

Will I run a 18ft flats boat out on the ocean with 3ft waves wide open?.....hell no.. Out on the bay or flats with 3ft chop......hell yeah!


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

some things dont mix...
3 anglers
3 ft. chop
microskiffs
[smiley=popcorn2.gif]


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## copperhead (May 30, 2008)

Note to self: make note in PIB's folder about warranty claims 

Running in any chop is about the wave length between the waves, implying a relationship between weather elements, current and water depth. There was a nice vid about a Caimen running on top of a stiff chop awhile back. In most cases, no, any small skiffs can't run on top, but in some cases its probably the preferred method to get through it. That said...

The Copperhead is not a zero degrees deadrise hull, I guess most people don't realize that. The SUV is pretty much flat bottom. The SUV will handle some chop, but it does it by running slowly, not on top.

Cayenne wise, no nothing on the website, but some photos on the Facebook thing. I'll make some design comments on it tonight to talk about it rather than sound like a sale pitch on a forum.

Of course there is a lot of overlap between the 3 designs, but each has its strong points. Anybody thinking of a boat should spend the time to get out on the water and test every skiff they may interested in. Its the only way they will be happy in the long run, by making an educated decision and not be overly influenced by marketing hype.

And I think we at Ankona will fair well under those circumstances...

thanx,

M


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## Surfincb (Feb 15, 2011)

Mel, very well said, as always!!

Test test and test!


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> Mel, very well said, as always!!
> 
> Test test and test!


Isn't that what I said?

If anybody wants to see what running a flats, micro, tech. polling skiff whatever you want to call it that hard in that kind of water just ask me or take a look at the boat I just sold.
2003 Action Craft all Carbon fiber/ Kevlar hull and cap. I ran this boat extremely hard. I can even remember once in a Tournament while running the Tampa Bay I passed a 22’ pathfinder and when the guy finally got to the dock he said man that boat rides good and I said it’s just how bad you want it.

The boat needs to be completely de-rigged the cap removed from the hull and the stringers rebuilt, along with the other fiberglass issues. Flats boats are just not designed to take that kind of punishment Over time the structer of the boat will FAIL!!! Some boats just take more time than others.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I would try and get a videO doing so, but it would be nothing but vibrations. 
Ask forum member poontoon how my skiff stays on top. I leave him behind in the chop while I run 39mph with myself and two anglers... Wanna see it, bring your micro down to flamingo and try keeping up.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Tunnel Time.....bottom line is this. Ankona makes technical poling skiffs.  In that genre of skiff, they are second to none in terms of performance, price, and quality IMHO.  I have taken many an angler out for test rides on the SUV and they fell in love with it after 5 minutes.  The same can be said for the Copperhead and will be said for the Cayenne and anything else that comes down the line.  The thing that I always told them, though, is these skiffs can handle rough water, but in reality, are you going to go out on a day when it is blowing 20-25 in a technical poling skiff?  Chances are, probably not.  PIB says he runs his CH in 3' at 39 MPH....I am not going to sit here and say he doesn't.  A pretty bold statement like that will probably have some visual backup before long.  And if he runs his skiff through that stuff then more power to him.  But let's talk about running the skiffs in REAL conditions when we would REALLY go out.  10-20 is where most of us spend our time.  And even then, with the draft capabilities of these skiffs, I am finding protected back water where 10-20 is an afterthought until I have to run back to ramp.  

Measure against whoever you want (HB, Maverick, ECC, and anyone else who builds a technical poling skiff).  Test drive them all. You will find that they all perform just a little differently.  But in the end, you are probably not going to be running these kind of skiffs in 20-25 either.  And if a HB, ECC, or Maverick suits your needs the best, then great! You found your skiff. The owners of the companies are great people and are passionate about the skiff they build and will be there for you after the sale (don't know the Maverick people).  Where you will find your real differences in price.  That is where Ankona is going to shine.  You get the quality and performance at a price that the others cannot beat.....and Mel is a hell of a guy to be around and know.


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## Paul_Barnard (Oct 28, 2011)

> I would try and get a videO doing so, but it would be nothing but vibrations.
> Ask forum member poontoon how my skiff stays on top. I leave him behind in the chop while I run 39mph with myself and two anglers... Wanna see it, bring your micro down to flamingo and try keeping up.


I ran boats professionally for 20 years and have owned various small boats for most of my adult years.  I know of no skiffs that can do what you are describing...none.  I know of no boats less than 21 feet that can do what you are describing.  I'll allow that you are an especially qualified operator, operating a very uniquely capable boat, but I think it's in the best interest of the OP to tell him that you, your boat and your experiences are exceedingly rare and that he should not expect the same results.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> I know of no skiffs that can do what you are describing...none.  I know of no boats less than 21 feet that can do what you are describing.  I'll allow that you are an especially qualified operator, operating a very uniquely capable boat, but I think it's in the best interest of the OP to tell him that you, your boat and your experiences are exceedingly rare and that he should not expect the same results.


X2 [smiley=bravo.gif]


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Alright Guys. I was Lieing. I dont even use my boat. It stays in my yard. While I sit at home and make wild claims as such on here. 
Give me a fcking break....


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## [email protected] (Feb 28, 2010)

i stand behind PIB! i have a gen 2 and run it hard!! first time yesterday crossing somewhat of a bay in key largo. about 3 miles wide. i got a 25 yammy on mine and work the piss out of it! throttle pinned runnig across the bay at 23mph with my dad in the front on the yeti. the chop was horrible abot 2-4 ft then ran more open water in florida bay where it was about the same. back at the dock my dad was complaining of back pains and needing a cushion for the yeti ;D


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Here's a link to sea bouy information, giving you the wave heights, dominant and average period. All three of those things determine a boat's (and your) ability to make forward progress in a sea:

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=41114

I don't know what the wave period would be to allow this: *"the waves were at the height of our shoulders, not the waistline. Not a single wave over the bow. That was at 23-25mph, though."* 

But I'm guessing for 4-5' waves that would have to be close enough to bridge from one wave crest to another in a 17' boat, there would have to be less than 1/2 a second between waves. I don't know if that's even possible. 

Otherwise, if you can't bridge the crests (and Lord knows you're not cutting through the waves in a flat bottom boat) you'd basically be hitting every 4-5' wave as a ramp and getting airborne off each one at "23-25mph". 

Again, not saying it's impossible. I'm just trying to find out, after seeing ALL KINDS of conditions, in 40+ years of boating inshore, offshore, open ocean crossings, etc., and owning and driving more kinds, styles and brands of boats from 13 to 42' than I have time or space to write, how in the heck someone's able to do that. 

Or just how one can run ~25mph in 4' seas with their Father sitting down, on a cooler loose on the deck, in the bow of a micro boat. 4' seas. Sitting down. In the bow. 25 mph.

Ankona's are awesome boats, and I have wanted one for a long, long time. But not for 4-5' seas, or anything even remotely close.

And yes, I was young once too. And reckless. And my buddies used to joke that I needed to replace the throttle with a light switch because it was either "on" or "off. And at the time I didn't know how to properly read a ruler either. Let's not steer someone into buying a flats boat for 4-5' sea conditions.  

-T


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Does running into mean running in the trough?
I guess one could run in between the waves and "tack"

Otherwise-----X1000 --can't be done


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Maybe I shouldn't say a wave height for this very reason. Like I said. Trailer your Microskiff down to flamingo and follow me. See how you fair. I can't say they're 3 footers for 100% sure. Cause I haven't measured with any kind of wave measuring device. But I can definitely tell you no one else is out there doing it. And definitely not in a micro. 

And I'm talking a chop. Not swells. Swells is a bitch.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

good luck TT in your search for a skiff but this WHOLE thread stinks of BS
-a


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## Chevystroked383 (Apr 12, 2011)

I have a g2 copperhead and it will take rough water better than my last boats and ride is better than them and it is amazing how well it does it wind equals no problem it goes shallow poles nicely has great stability for is size and will do what it was intended for so as far as skiffs go ride in a Carolina skiff and than ride in everything else you will see and you bank account will thank you later by far the best value and craftsmanship for your dollar .... Different strokes for different folks


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## KeepingItSimple (Mar 20, 2011)

I think the original intent of my post is getting a little lost here. I'm uniquely interested in Ankona. Y'all don't need to sell me on how great they are. The only other boat I've considered as a next sled is the ecc caimen. My main interest is in how folks choose between the copperhead and the SUV. I.e., what are the intrinsic differences that would make you choose one over the other. I just can't see that terribly much different behind the computer screen between the two. Thks.

Alex V


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## Chevystroked383 (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm not bashing at all I hope if you know whare you fish and what you want than you will buy it I know of someone who has a caiman and has seen how my boat is and liked it alot due to the storage finish and fit to his needs the thing between the different brands is varying you look at what they are and wet test them on a bad day and average them out it has to fit your wants and needs in the end it is yours


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

> I think the original intent of my post is getting a little lost here.  I'm uniquely interested in Ankona.  Y'all don't need to sell me on how great they are.  The only other boat I've considered as a next sled is the ecc caimen.  My main interest is in how folks choose between the copperhead and the SUV.  I.e., what are the intrinsic differences that would make you choose one over the other.  I just can't see that terribly much different behind the computer screen between the two.  Thks.
> 
> Alex V


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

I say buy both of them, and then give me the 1 you don't like! LOL!!!

Call MEL and go for a test ride on both, that way if there is a difference you can make an informed decision of which one you like the most


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## nate. (Nov 12, 2009)

PIB isn't running in 3' bay chop any sooner than the guy with the flats and bay for sale is runnin in 4" of water.


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## telltail (Mar 11, 2007)

> Maybe I shouldn't say a wave height for this very reason. Like I said. Trailer your Microskiff down to flamingo and follow me. See how you fair. I can't say they're 3 footers for 100% sure. Cause I haven't measured with any kind of wave measuring device. But I can definitely tell you no one else is out there doing it. And definitely not in a micro.
> 
> And I'm talking a chop. Not swells. Swells is a bitch.


Sounds like a plan...but, let's first wait for a nice noreaster to come thru and make it fun! If you make it from the mouth of Tarpon Creek straight up the middle of WWB on that day -- dry and in one piece, first rum and coke is on me at Oyster Bay. PS - bring what you are smoking cuz it sounds a lot better than anything I have! ;D


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> but, let's first wait for a nice nor'wester to come thru and make it fun!


Fixed it for ya'... 

Those days out front, a nor'easter would make the run back from Carl Ross an absolute pain too!


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Like I said. I don't use my boat. Ever. I don't even own a boat. It's made of cardboard. Mel is just that nice if a guy that he made me a cardboard relica of a copperhead so I can lie my ass off on the boards.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Once again, this guys post looking for advice has taken a drastic turn toward the "My skiff is better than yours" approach. There is no doubt that the SUV and Copperhead are great boats designed for what they are. I personally would not take the risk of beating the snot out of a 20k boat to prove otherwise and I think the originator of this post has no intentions of running in the "Nasty" either. If this were the case, he would have listed much larger bay boats in his search. That being said, things such as draft, poling and stability is what he is asking for and this can only be found out by a proper wet test of each rig. Lets not continue to derail this thread any further with irrelevant information.


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## mhinkle90 (Feb 24, 2011)

> Like I said. I don't use my boat. Ever. I don't even own a boat. It's made of cardboard. Mel is just that nice if a guy that he made me a cardboard relica of a copperhead so I can lie my ass off on the boards.


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've rode in SaltyGuy's Gen2, I've rode in SnookInTime's Caimen and Frontier05's Caimen. Between those two boats, I see the Gen2 as a faster boat and runs smooth. The Caimen does too but not as fast. Poling wise I think the Caimen tracks better in my opinion...dont shoot me if you think other wise [smiley=bigun2.gif] Draft wise depending on the weight and gear i've been in both with 2 guys and a cooler and i can say theres not much difference. The main difference is in the ride.   I will say the Caimen can turn on a dime with out blowing out which is kind of scary, especially when your on the bow on a casting platform (Fronier05)  
All in all Both good boats and to beat the dead horse some more, test drive every boat and make a list of your pros and cons and weigh each of them. 

hope this helps even though its one of your secondary options.

Goodluck


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Anyone want to wet test my boat let me know. But have money ready to drop down on an order. No bullshit. Straight up.


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## DJ (Nov 10, 2009)

Tunnel Time

I have a gen1 CH but what I can add is you asked about the amount of people. I have done 3 but to me this boat is great for 2 adults. If I was planning for 3 adults often I am not sure this would be the skiff for me. I do love this boat it does everything I expected from it, rides well,poles great,very stable,shallow and sips gas to top it all off. good luck with your search, I am in N.Florida little less drive then to Mel's if you would like some sort of idea what you could expect, just keep in mind I hear the Gen2 is much nicer.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

The gen2 is not even in the same world as the gen1. Don't base any opinion about the gen2 from looking at a gen1. A gen2 is a legit three angler boat.


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## DJ (Nov 10, 2009)

Hope it's about two feet longer with a much larger deck area not just a few inches then. If not I see it being tight with two people casting from the front deck. How big is the front deck on the new one? Not downing any copperhead I feel any 16' skiff would be tight with 3 people fishing.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

If you are going to REGULARLY fish 3 anglers, reconsider your boat choice and start looking at 18-20' flats boats. A 20'er is about right for 3 anglers without tripping over each other or constantly watching your pole tip/lure so you don't snag your fishing buddies. 

I had a 16' hewes redfisher for a couple years and it was great for 2 anglers. 3 was a pinch for sure, and that boat was the same length but a full 2' wider than the CH. If you or your buddies are big guys it'd be even tighter. 

Not saying it can't be done, but it's not the right tool for the job. A micro boat is not for 3 anglers. 

-T


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> Not saying it can't be done, but it's not the right tool for the job. A micro boat is not for 3 anglers.
> -T


^x100

18'+ for 3 anglers to be comfortable!


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

> some things dont mix...
> 3 anglers
> 3 ft. chop
> microskiffs
> [smiley=popcorn2.gif]


 :


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> Hope it's about two feet longer with a much larger deck area not just a few inches then. If not I see it being tight with two people casting from the front deck. How big is the front deck on the new one? Not downing any copperhead I feel any 16' skiff would be tight with 3 people fishing.



The front deck is considerably wider. I'm used to fishing with three people often. But I guess it's different. The way I fish, it's 95% sight fishing. So there's one "main angler" on the casting platform, with a "back up angler" behind on the deck. While the person poling has a rod as well. Person up on the casting platform gets first shots. Person behind is to get a secondary cast in. Whether it's at other fish if it's a school of reds/bones, or whether the first guy made a terrible cast at the fish. If both fail, then the person on the poling platform gets a cast in from behind. This method works for how I fish. This is how I've always done it. 
This is similar method used by all the captains down here on shallow water sight fishing charters. Except while fly fishing, one guy sits on the cooler while the other guy is on the bow fishing. Every time a fish is caught, the anglers exchange positions. Also remember, everything is based on opinion. What is comfortable to one, may not be comfortable to another. This skiff makes running around with 3 on board way more comfortable than the last skiff. My gen 1 felt crowded with three people. This one does not, at all. 
Three adults fit side by side, on the back row on this skiff, comfortably. Whereas the Gen1 tiller, I had to sit at the back alone. And two anglers upfront. One on the cooler, and one on the front deck. 

Anyone saying they need at least 18+ plus boat to be comfortable fishing is just crying/spoiled/whining. I used to fish three adults out of a 13' low sider with a 5hp Merc. 
And even 4 adults out of a 12' Sears Gamefisher Aluminum v-hull with an old Shakespeare trolling motor with a Walmart battery. Quit acting like pompous s.o.b.'s and get out on the water. Isn't that what it's about? 

I know many of you probably don't like me, based on an opinion you guys are getting off of this thread. But quite frankly, I don't give a rats behind. Catch me on the water, where I'm at. Actually fishing...........


Sorry for the anger. I just get annoyed by people making claims about something without even seeing or trying it out for themselves.


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## nate. (Nov 12, 2009)

I fished a 17 Mitzi for 6.5 years. I wouldn't fish with 2 others. I now have an ECC Vantage and I can fish 3 but it doesn't happen often.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> > .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very true statement!!! We all know the saying everyone has an opinion just like A---------

That is your opinion just like all of ours!!!

I don’t dislike you, I don’t know you other than on here; but just because I disagree with some of your statements don’t mean I don’t like you. You seem very knowledgeable about skiffs, you are passionate about Ankona boats which are your skiffs of choice; and your skiff is 1 hell of a sweet ride. I also agree they are nice skiffs just not for me for what I’m looking for. The only problem I have with some Ankona boat owners is they make out like they are the Perfect skiff, and anyone that has been around boats all there life knows it just doesn’t exists . It can't float in sub 6”, ride like a Contender, dry as a Whaler, pole like a Hells bay, fast as a Skater, Stable as a Pontoon boat. However if the Ankona boats are indeed that than I have made a grave mistake in not purchasing one.  Tight lines PIB and Merry Christmas


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I guess you are right. You made valid points, and I understand where you are coming from. But if you read through my posts. It's about wording. I never said my skiff is the best. I never said my skiff was the driest. I said when going into a chop at full speed it's the best ride without getting any water in the skiff. Compared to going slower through the nasty chop, that's when I get sprayed. The skiff plowing into a wave with a wind coming straight at me is going to get a mist in the air. On any skiff. That's why I choose to run it WOT where the skiff is on top. I cannot do that with a following wind as I mentioned. Therefore I have to slow down, therefore I do get wet with a following wind in nasty conditions. I'm blatantly honest about things I own. Some will tell you that. I am rather vocal about stuff I purchase and am not happy with. The way I read the intended purpose of this thread was as this. The thread starter asked how did Ankona owners choose which skiff they purchased. What were the determining factors. I stated mine, based on my opinions. And others decided to try and call me out on my statements. Same person who personally attacked someone who I consider a respectful friend on this very forum. I allowed his previous statements along with the ones made on this thread get to me, and I acted immaturely. 

But back to the subject at hand, I just straight up rather a Copperhead over an SUV for the reasons I mentioned on page one.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

To the OP, the two skiffs you are requesting info about are good skiffs and represent an excellent value. However despite the hyperbole none of them are a 3 person, 3 foot "chop", 40 mph skiff. 

As operator of microskiff and having done all the reviews I can tell you that I get to see/run skiffs before the general public. I had knowledge of the second generation before anyone on this forum. It is an improvement on their first gen Copperhead. Mel and crew have done a good job of listening to their customer and more importantly in my opinion, their critics. Their critics and competition have made them better.

With that said I personally would not look at the SUV or the Copperhead for three adults and heavy conditions. Heck I run an Egret 16 and fish with two to three adults and two adults and two children. It's tight. The ride is far superior to any 16 flats boat and I'm never going to proclaim 40mph in a 4' chop. No person with integrity would I hope. 

An honest comparison between the two.

Fit and finish - Copperhead gen 2
Draft - Backcountry SUV 17 light build with tiller
Value - SUV
Poling - Copperhead
Accessability and storage - depending on build, Copperhead typical but not always. 
Ride - Copperhead

But hey what do I know. 

Cheers Capt. Jan


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## SilentHunter (Jun 14, 2010)

i lol at the 3 foot chop claim.  i cant even do 40 in my 18ft cc and run a 3 foot chop.


maybe 3 inch chop you can in the copperhead... but to say you can take on a wave taller than your boat is just silly. i need to get some of what your smoking... it sounds like the greenest.

you might of taken on a 3 foot chop for maybe 15 seconds at 40 mph.. and you reliezed your happymeal was a few fries short this time and plowed through a wave swamping your boat and sending bodies foward.

you might have a fast nice micro. but your not running that thing like you say you are.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Forget the wave height. Like I said, I didn't measure. that's just a guesstimate. But I'm telling you, 20 to 30mph winds across whitewater bay..... running 38-39mph....Why would I lie about something so ridiculous? Ask forum members that have been with me. They can vouch for this.

And for you non-flamingo people. Ask anyone who knows the area how bad WWB gets with a 20 to 30 MPH wind...Then when we have a 20 to 30 mph wind. I want you non-believers to follow me to Flamingo. And try and keep up in a micro. 

You act as if running into a chop is this mythical thing. Trim the bow up to the sky and hammer down the throttle. Straight into a chop. It's not rocket science. Straight into the wind. Any kind of angle would get some spray. But straight into a wind it's super dry. As long as you know how to run WWB in a micro, you can make your way across the bay without having to use Joe's River.

I'm done with this argument.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> > Hope it's about two feet longer with a much larger deck area not just a few inches then. If not I see it being tight with two people casting from the front deck. How big is the front deck on the new one? Not downing any copperhead I feel any 16' skiff would be tight with 3 people fishing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You fail to see that we have, indeed, been there and done that. 

And we've learned from our mistakes and moved forward in a positive direction. 

*If 3 anglers in a 13 footer was the best, you wouldn't have moved to a 16, right? *

So the next progression will be an 18, and you'll think "how the heck did I do this with a 16?" And so on. 

It's natural. 

And we don't hate you. Exaggeration is a great thing when you're fishing. It makes a good story that much better. Just not when you're trying to help someone with a boat purchase. 

Regardless of what you think about older people, they do have some insight at times, seeing as how they were right where you are, 10, 20, 40 or more years ago. And you know what? We're all still learning too, and will hopefully continue to do so until we're worm food! 

My Dad used to tell me that it's what you learn after you know everything that matters and I never understood what he meant until about 10 years ago. 

-T


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> I guess you are right. You made valid points, and I understand where you are coming from. But if you read through my posts. It's about wording. I never said my skiff is the best. I never said my skiff was the driest. I said when going into a chop at full speed it's the best ride without getting any water in the skiff. Compared to going slower through the nasty chop, that's when I get sprayed. The skiff plowing into a wave with a wind coming straight at me is going to get a mist in the air. On any skiff. That's why I choose to run it WOT where the skiff is on top. I cannot do that with a following wind as I mentioned. Therefore I have to slow down, therefore I do get wet with a following wind in nasty conditions. I'm blatantly honest about things I own. Some will tell you that. I am rather vocal about stuff I purchase and am not happy with.  The way I read the intended purpose of  this thread was as this. The thread starter asked how did Ankona owners choose which skiff they purchased. What were the determining factors. I stated mine, based on my opinions. And others decided to try and call me out on my statements. Same person who personally attacked someone who I consider a respectful friend on this very forum. I allowed his previous statements along with the ones made on this thread get to me, and  I acted immaturely.
> 
> But back to the subject at hand, I just straight up rather a Copperhead over an SUV for the reasons I mentioned on page one.


The one who personally attacked was banned. End of story. If you don't agree with that ask the powers that be.  

The one who offered insight, in a mature and constructive way (*even after the personal attack and childish name calling*) to a police officer breaking the law, jeapordizing his kids, and posting it on the internet was not banned. I'm still here, offering my thoughts, and trying to cut through the BS that's been seeping into this forum in the last year. Obviously by the responses here in this thread I don't think that's a bad thing. Seems people are not on the 4' chop at 40mph in a micro bandwagon. 

You all may have your opinions about whether overpowering that LT25 hull is OK or not, and that's fine. An officer's job is not to make or agree with the law. His job is to enforce the law whether he agrees with the law or not. Period. 

Overpowering and overloading the hull at the same time is the same, absolutely the same, as saying to a police officer who's pulled you over for speeding "well I think the speed limit on this road is too low so I decided to go 25mph faster". He's going to give you a ticket whether you think that or not, because bottom line is you were speeding and breaking the law. 

Again, a voice of reason in a sea of BS. Put your boots on. 

-T


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> > > Hope it's about two feet longer with a much larger deck area not just a few inches then. If not I see it being tight with two people casting from the front deck. How big is the front deck on the new one? Not downing any copperhead I feel any 16' skiff would be tight with 3 people fishing.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


I'm not going to an 18 footer. It's not practical for what I do. I have fished a buddies HPX 18 and it's just not the same. Sure, it can do the job. But it's a lot more work to pole, Drafts more, etc. And I never said 4' chop.... I said I have ridden my last skiff through some waves I could not see over while running standing. You can ask forum member dacuban1. I never suggested to do it often. I was caught out in a storm once and was forced to do so, or sink. So I did it. Other skiffs sank that day. Mine didn't.... Waves that big on a skiff that's not moving is just going to swamp the boat in a matter of minutes. Keep the bow up, and facing straight into the wave.
I wouldn't overpower an LT. For I will probably not own one. They are sweet little canoes, but I would not own one, definitely not as a number one boat. Maybe as something to mess around with on the side as a project. 

I find it hilarious that now you're trying to pin me as a guy who doesn't like old people. 

I'm done. Anything else on this subject, PM me or send me an email. [email protected] 



And this thread is about an SUV compared to a Copperhead and vice versa. Not why would you choose a different boat just because you don't "like" the support Ankona's have on this forum.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Can we all just get along during Christmas?????? This forum is popular for its good advice and positive approach. If a couple people have to dominate a thread in a negative tone microskiff will no longer be the place it once was. Just let it go and learn to be polite with each other. Thats the last time I am asking.


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## phishphood (Dec 15, 2006)

> Can we all just get along during Christmas?????? This forum is popular for its good advice and positive approach. If a couple people have to dominate a thread in a negative tone microskiff will no longer be the place it once was. Just let it go and learn to be polite with each other. Thats the last time I am asking.


For one, I love Christmas.  and two, I think it all boils down to how you measure waves. Does trough to peak = chop height? IDK
Talk to the surfers. It's open for discussion.
Here's what I know form experience for what it's worth. Dead into a 20mph headwind, let er rip (driving an ECC Caimen) and let the spray rails do what they do. Dead downwind, do your best, you're still gonna stuff a few . Sidewinds and you're gonna get some spray. Just sayiin. Skiffs are skiffs. You're gonna get wet sometimes. ;D


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## Demeter (Nov 16, 2011)

What differences or advantages will the tunnel hull will the offer compared to the SUV17 or Copperhead? As far as I understand, the tunnel hull will allow it to plane easier and to get up in shallow water. How does the hull affect the draft or the ability to pole?


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

The tunnel hull has more freeboard, and the front V entry was designed with making long runs across open waters in mind. It should handle bad conditions better than the SUV and Copperhead.

I haven't been in this skiff, so I can't speak for performance. I'm just going by what I was told about this hull throughout the year on my Saturday visits up to the shop. 

But, speaking in general. Tunnel hulls usually draft about an inch more than a non-tunnel version of the same skiff. Or at least that seems to be the case as advertised with most companies. I have poled tunnel hulls before and there's not much of a difference at all as far as tracking goes. Just a bit more draft.


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## Les_Lammers (Feb 17, 2007)

> Forget the wave height. Like I said, I didn't measure. that's just a guesstimate. But I'm telling you, 20 to 30mph winds across whitewater bay..... running 38-39mph....Why would I lie about something so ridiculous? Ask forum members that have been with me. They can vouch for this.
> 
> And for you non-flamingo people. Ask anyone who knows the area how bad WWB gets with a 20 to 30 MPH wind...Then when we have a 20 to 30 mph wind. I want you non-believers to follow me to Flamingo. And try and keep up in a micro.
> 
> ...



I am familiar with WWB and believe you did what you said and I'm glad I was not along for the ride.


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