# Second thoughts on trip



## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Am I undestanding this correctly. You want to be guaranteed a fish?

Might I suggest the local grocery store!

Yep, those guys you listened too got exactly what they wished for. One person to spread the word that fishing sucks and they should all go fishing elsewhere. 

I would say to cancel that trip and go ice fishing in MN. The perch fishing is hot that time of year.

(Sarcasm off) figure out where you want to go and get it booked.


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## shb (Oct 29, 2013)

brokeoff said:


> I'm starting to get second thoughts about a Keys tarpon trip. For a few months I have been researching every trip in the tropics and I thought I had settled on the Keys. The Bahamas seemed out of my price range. Belize seemed like the focus would end up being on smaller bonefish. This led me to an April 2018 Keys trip. I'm spooked for two reasons. First, some people said it's not as good as it used to be. Second, people said their is little room for inexperience.
> 
> I don't mind a challenge but I would be super disappointed if I didn't get an eat in 5 days. Does this mean I should look elsewhere?




There is little room for inexperience, but where are you going to get experience?

It's expensive, time consuming, and frustrating.......... until you put it together, then it's the best f#####g thing you've ever experienced!


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

@DuckNut I'm in MN right now for an interview in the morning...... Car said -10° I don't recommend it lol.

@brokeoff
You def don't want to go to North FL either, Hernando to Destin is all bad, very few fish and the ones there are small, super technical, overcrowded, dirty water, super windy etc etc...

Kidding aside, if you want to catch a fish in a particular place, in a particular way, you're on their terms, find a decent guide folks on here can help you find someone reputable (not affiliated in any way but I would call Bob Lemay aka @lemaymiami), just give it a shot, nobody can guarantee success but worst case scenario you'll leave knowing way more than you do now. I won't even tell you how long it took me to break my Steelhead on fly curse.

Good luck and tight lines!
LH


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Yeah no fish here in Sw Florida either all bad. Experience is only achieved by getting out there and putting in time. First time I went to the keys no bonefish took a few trips to figure it out when you do its all worth it


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Yup, I'm looking for a guaranteed trophy just like the original post said.

I had my fingers crossed that someone with knowledge of the Keys and other destinations would be able to compare.

I know there are several guys on here that know the Keys tarpon scene. Could have just PM'd them. Lesson learn.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm going down to the keys in February doing a DIY trip with some buddies and I have no expectations. I have some high hopes but honestly in April in the Keys with a descent guide you'll see fish and it'll be amazing. 

I can tell you this, I've seen tarpon daisy chaining one time and it was one of the coolest things i've seen on the water, also I was too busy looking and forgot to throw a line out. I still looked at that trip as successful.


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## Padre (Jul 29, 2016)

I went to Australia the wrong time of the year. But I had to go during their winter to get my daughter in school in Sydney. All the mountain streams were closed to trout fishing during the winter, so I rented a camper and drove north up to Townsville. I booked one trip with a guide and it got cancelled because of weather. I wasn't catching crap DIY. And I so badly wanted to catch a Baramundi (The snook of Australia) On the last day on Magnetic Island, a local let me borrow his Jon boat and I was fishing the mangroves mainly catching barracuda. At 4 PM, I looked at my wife and said, "this is the last cast of the trip," as we had to get the boat back and leave for Sydney the next day. I made the cast and as I am retrieving it, I can see a big push following it and boom, a huge Baramundi exploded on my fly, jumped in the air and my wife was like, "OMG that thing is huge" (She was talking about the fish). As I was getting it back to the boat and about to grab the leader, it jumped one more time and came off. That was enough to make my trip and want me to come back for more, this time during their summer. So yes, book the trip because even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and then.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Here's my thoughts on the subject...

* No place to fish for anything on the planet is as good as it used to be! That's just fact!

* Here's a question for ya. Have you caught a tarpon on fly yet?

* Bahamas and Belize will not have consistent poons the size they have in the Keys.

* You are saying trophy... What do you consider a trophy?

* If you haven't caught a good size tarpon before on fly, I would recommend being happy with a 50-100lb fish and call it a day. Not necessary trophy fish, but good fish! Don't expect fish over 100lbs, which takes a different mind set, skill set, luck, experience and possibly a relocation to another area.

* There are other places that have larger poons other than the Keys, but your chances are slimmer to get hooked up. That's the choices you face.

* I've known people who have fly fished for tarpon for years (back when it was really good) before they got their 1st fish to the boat.

* I met a retired guide that had a "tarpon guaranteed" guide service in the Keys back in the 90's and he also catered to fly fishermen. The guarantee tho was eats only (not landing them, which was up to you) was soaking bait on conventional gear at night, 1st round for the guarentee (size not guarenteed either), then they would take you fly fishing at 1st light with no further guarantees.

* I recommend this book on a "how-to" instructional manual on poon fishing. I remember when Rob 1st published it in the 90's and even today, I think it's one of the best how-to's" out there that will clarify when, where, why's and fly placement and what exactly do you do once you get the fish on.
https://www.amazon.com/Tarpon-Fly-Donald-Larmouth/dp/1571882707

* Do your research and hire a really good fly fishing guide and listen to what he tells you to do, then do it as instructed if you want the kind of results you are looking for.

* You have all winter and spring to practice your casting distance and accuracy. Go now and get with a good fly casting instructor that can show your proper casting with 11 & 12wts. Set your bar high and have a distance goal of 70ft with a nice smoothly executed cast., tho most of what you really need is 30-60ft. Make sure you are competent in casting 30-60ft in every direction in the wind without nailing you or your imaginary guide up there on the poling platform behind you.

* Here's a few more things to increase your chances to land a good fish..... Tied, buy or request flies tied on Owner Cutting Point hooks. Learn to use a stripping basket. Practice accuracy casting, which is key. Always keep your rod tip at the water line, pointing towards your fly. Listen to your guide on how to bump or work the fly. Learn to strip set hard, not trout set the fly hook. Learn to fight the fish with the rod butt section of the rod (which is where all the power is stored) and learn to apply proper pressure on the rod. Do lots of push-ups for exercise and get some stamina exercise in to build up endurance. Learn proper palming of the spool to apply a little more pressure when needed.

Ted Haas


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

mtoddsolomon said:


> I'm going down to the keys in February doing a DIY trip with some buddies and I have no expectations. I have some high hopes


I wouldn't expect tarpon that time of year there. But there are a few spots if the weather warms up quickly. You will have plenty of shots at cudas tho and a possibly permit. Lots of jacks and snapper action that time of year to keep a good bend in the rod.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

You don't need to go that far South to find large tarpon on fly. But you may need to go later in the year.

Got my first eat from a large sight cast tarpon about 60' off our stern this past summer. Many, many hours of DIY trial and error and climbing of the learning curve went into that first eat. And she flat owned my ass when I strip set her. But I can't wait to get out there again when the fish show up...

As Ted said...you need to be able to quickly deliver the fly on target in that 30-60' range.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies. And Ted, I've been waiting for your input.

No poon on the fly yet.

I think for me the size of the fish matters the least. What matters most is the experience of seeing the fish before the cast. I could spend all day fishing for micro stripers, suckers, sunfish...anything. I just like fly fishing. The issue here is, if I'm spending money to travel and using precious time my wife has given me away from the family I want to make the best choice possible. That's all.

I'm trying to weigh the options between spending a bit more and going to the Bahamas knowing that I will at least hook up and could get some nice bones, going to Belize and getting a mixed bag of smaller fish, or going to the Keys and gambling on what I really want.

Whenever I start thinking about fishing for small bones I get the feeling that it is just a stepping stone and I'm really just interested in tarpon. I have caught one baby tarpon in PR on a live bait. It was awesome. Now I'd love to catch one on the fly...again, the main preference is high quality sight fishing. Not so much size. If it was size only I would head to Mexico or Costa.

If the final verdict is a Keys trip I will put all of your recommendations into action. I have the 11 wt and I'm rigging the reel over the next few weeks and going to start practicing.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Brokeoff

Don't compromise. Your desire is to go to the Keys and chase poons. So do that! Just be as prepared as you can and set realistic expectations. Keys tarpon is not a numbers game. Get that in your mindset. It is EASY to go for a week and get zip. But you can also have a good week and land several. And when its right, when it all comes together, there is NOTHING better than a sight fished tarpon on fly. And you will never get the experience until you do it.

One last word of caution. Be prepared to get addicted!

Oh one last note. Two years ago I had a buddy come with me. Very experienced fly fisherman and had done some saltwater fly fishing but never tarpon. So what does he do? Casts to the first freaking tarpon. Gets the eat. Fights it awesome. Lands an #85 poon. So go get er done!!!


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## Padre (Jul 29, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> Brokeoff
> 
> Don't compromise. Your desire is to go to the Keys and chase poons. So do that! Just be as prepared as you can and set realistic expectations. Keys tarpon is not a numbers game. Get that in your mindset. It is EASY to go for a week and get zip. But you can also have a good week and land several. And when its right, when it all comes together, there is NOTHING better than a sight fished tarpon on fly. And you will never get the experience until you do it.
> 
> ...


Ha ha. That is a great story. Reminds me of what happened to me. I picked up a skiff in PR and brought it back to FL. That is what got me interested in skinny water fishing. Then I started watching videos of fly fishing for reds, etc. and I thought that looked exciting. A buddy gives me his 10wt rod he had never used. So I go out 1st time, see a tailing red fish and catch him in the 2nd cast. I thought this isn't as hard as it looks. After that, nothing. 2 months later I take fly casting lessons from Chris Myers in Orlando. He takes one look at my cast and says, "You really caught a tailing redfish on fly?" That's when I started the Blind Squirrel Fishing Team. It pays to be lucky when you aren't good.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

If your goal is to catch a large tarpon, then you should go to the Keys. Full stop.

If your goal is to sightfish generally, then would advise Mexico or Belize as it's cheap, you will catch a lot of bones (also, they are not all small...have caught plenty of 4-6lbers there), have good shots at permit, and smaller tarpon as well.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

jsnipes said:


> If your goal is to catch a large tarpon, then you should go to the Keys. Full stop.


Generally the guys looking for record fish are a little further north in the Gulf. But then they may not be sight casting as much as they are dredging points and holes with sinking lines...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

You'll find more consistent larger poons in the Keys, as opposed to Belize or the Bahamas, which are mainly juvenile fish there from dinks up to 50lbs.
The Keys can be epic in April, depending on winds and weather, much like any place else during that month. That is also a good time to get a grand slam with the big three. Bones and permit can run big that time of year (prime is March and April), but you can be faced with winds. Yes the guides can be more $$ than those other places. For me, if I was going out of the country to sight fish the big 3, then it would be Cuba (which is next on my bucket list). But for me, it's hard for me to travel to other places when we basically have them in our back yard here in Florida. 

As snipes and ifsteve said, go get it over with in the Keys in April! YOLO baby!  Lol


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Cuba looks unreal. A bit out of my price range.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

@brokeoff - you joined this board like many others to get advice. IMO, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. To be blatantly cliche...

It's about the journey, not the destination

I read your post and saw mention of "trophy" and "best guide" to have the "best experience." These are all things that are not guaranteed. It sounds like you already have the destination in your mind that you want - that only sets up disappointment. Weather, conditions, tide, bait are all cyclical. There is no best time and best spot. There are only greater chances, and those change each year. 

Thank you for pointing out that you are still in search of the first poon on the fly. That's important to know. Fishing for 10 to 20 pound poon is a different game than hunting the 100+ pounders. While the eat and presentation may be the similar, the fight is VERY different.

What happens after the eat is controlled chaos. It can be explained to you, you can see it, but until it happens to you, it cannot be comprehended. Your first big fish will hand your ass to you so fast you'll wonder what happened and have to sit down from the rush of adrenaline that is shaking your knees. You'll barely be able to hold the beer the guide hands you to calm your nerves.

On the next fish it will slow down a bit. The one after that the game will get even slower. You'll be able to anticipate your next move based on what the fish does. It's no longer a fast blur of chaos.

Because of those facts, my recommendation is to travel to a spot with consistent small to mid-sized tarpon and get your game tuned up before hunting the big ones. You need a lot of shots to get the eat, and lots of jumps to finally get it to hand.

Tarpon is a tough game. Hell, even Andy Mill set out several years to make a great documentary about tarpon on the fly and he got his ass handed to him. Even when you are one of the best there is no guarantee.

And there is a difference between trophy fish and trophy days. I've jumped over 15 poons in less than 2 hours, but also have spent numerous days searching for that 100+ pounder without a lot of casts and jumped fish. That big fish I got may have been a trophy, but sometimes consistent action, jumps and plain out fun is a trophy day.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

LowHydrogen said:


> @DuckNut I'm in MN right now for an interview in the morning...... Car said -10° I don't recommend it lol.
> 
> @brokeoff
> You def don't want to go to North FL either, Hernando to Destin is all bad, very few fish and the ones there are small, super technical, overcrowded, dirty water, super windy etc etc...
> ...


You are a brave man...looking to get a job with the Eskimos. MN is a real nice state if you stay outside of the liberal city and leave the tv off. I can see it now, low hydrogen becomes high viscosity.

Sell the skiff and buy a snowmobile and practice on your steelheading tactics. See you in 10 years.

Really LH - best wishes on your interview (they pay a lot more up there)


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

Lots of good advice on here. I can say this, in the spring there's nothing like seeing strings of Tarpon coming down the line. It's a rush that I even have to slow down and take a breath on the rare occasions I get on the bow. My clients LOVE IT, I always have to remind them to take a breath! Haha if you have a goal in mind don't deviate from it, just do it! Suffer through the lows and enjoy the highs. The reward at the end will be worth it! If there's anything I can assist with if you decide to come down to the keys. Please don't hesitate to ask. Send me a pm, e mail or text. Would be happy to help get you that first POON! 

Alonzo


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

The huge strings of ocean side fish in the keys are enough to drive a sane person crazy. They have to be some of the most uncooperative fish on this planet.

That's code for lose the expectations and enjoy the journey.


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

el9surf said:


> The huge strings of ocean side fish in the keys are enough to drive a sane person crazy. They have to be some of the most uncooperative fish on this planet.
> 
> That's code for lose the expectations and enjoy the journey.


Though they can be VERY frustrating. They have their days. I've had multiple 10 bite days ocean side.


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

But big laid up fish in the back country (Florida bay) is also an option that time of year.


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## Zhunter (Feb 19, 2014)

el9surf said:


> The huge strings of ocean side fish in the keys are enough to drive a sane person crazy. They have to be some of the most uncooperative fish on this planet.
> 
> That's code for lose the expectations and enjoy the journey.


Fishing before they start swimming on the ocean results in more feeds per cast.... By Far... IF you can place the fly where you want it. Poon ocean fishing is a numbers game, but as said above, they will drive you NUTS


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

You said you're after your first tarpon on fly so I think the goal of a trophy fish is admirable but lofty. I went to a fly fishing club's event where there was a speaker on the topic of tarpon and one of the best things I came away having internalized is there are many definitions of success. Presenting the fly properly, feeding a fish, jumping a fish, surviving the first run, and getting the fish to the boat are all wins in their own right. If you go into any fishing situation with only one way to define success you're just setting yourself up for failure.

I'll be honest here, last year was my first year spent intent on a fly caught tarpon. I got a couple babies, like the one in my avatar pic, but for big girls the only landings have been with bait on spinning gear. My highest achievement on fly with the big ones is the eat, followed by a quick butt whooping. But I don't care. Lining up the shot, getting the fly out there into the path, and watching the fish track and inhale the fly is a sequence of events burned in my brain. I will get further, but that was an AWESOME achievement to me. 

Point is, whether you go to the keys or somewhere else it's a steep curve that's not going to be overcome by any other means than getting out there and doing it. If the keys is where you want to go, just do it. If you get to watch a tarpon line up on and eat your fly I promise you are hardly going to care where you are. Wherever it is will be your new favorite spot on the planet.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Six days at Playa Blanca or Casa Blanca should get you a few shots at tarpon of various sizes depending on location but more importantly more fly rod targets including snook. I have not been but know people that have been fishing there for years. It is on my short list but $$$.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

So, I should put this whole trophy tarpon thing to rest.

DuckNut was busting my balls about asking for a guaranteed fish. I never said anything about a guarantee in the original post so I responded, "yes I want a guaranteed trophy..."

So hear I am, a fairly reasonable person, getting advice from people who think I want a guaranteed 100+ pound fish...guaranteed.

Unfortunately, some of the noise in the beginning of the thread threw off people when posting seriously helpful stuff.

Backwater and Coconut, I knew you would chime in. These opinions, albeit different are what will help me make the right decision. I've seen you guys on the forum a lot and others have been very helpful as well.

I don't think I will be disappointed with either choice. If failure comes because of a freak weather system I'm okay with that. If failure comes because I make mistakes I'm okay with that. If failure comes because it's the nature of the low odds game I've signed up to play I'm okay with that. I'm not okay with failure because I misunderstood what I was signing up for.

I had a very candid conversation with a guide in the Keys and he said he thinks he could get me on a tarpon with about three days on the bow. I have five days to burn. He said in three days there will usually be one good day for weather. Now if in those five days I screw it all up, I'm cool with that. Would five days of lockjaw bother me...yes. If it happened would I regret the trip...I don't think so. But I would probably have a little voice in the back of my head saying, "if I took CoconutGrove's advice I would have snagged my first bonefish and maybe a couple of poons on a beautiful flat in Belize."

Again, I guess my question at a basic level is, "what are your expectations when you go down for a 5 day tarpon trip to the Keys." Furthermore, on average what have your results been?


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Hindsight is always 20/20. Hell, I was just in Belize over xmas and the tarpon were tough to find. Little to no bait in yet due to a late wet season. The year before at xmas poons were everywhere.

I've been with one of the best permit guides in all of Belize and we've watched the fish just shut down for 4 days. First day - a dozen+ shots at permit. Second day - maybe 6. Day 3 to 5 barely any shots. And when I say shots, I mean spotted fish - once we see a permit tailing, we typically get a shot to it.

I always have another trip planned after the one I am on. It's a drug and its rare any one trip does it all for me. There is always that next fish I want to get. Go with your gut man - but a bunch of guys on here are FL guys and say its tough. My advice is to spend the $$$ and hit an area that is a bit more friendly for that first fish. Guides in Mexico and Belize are $350 - $400. The money you save on the guide offsets any additional travel cost.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

I looked pretty seriously at an outfit out of Caye Caulker. 

If it turns out Belize is the way to go do you have any specific places you recommend?


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

The issue with Caye Caulker is that some of the best flats it has access to are hit by boats from Ambergris, specifically at El Pescador and Belize Fly. I've heard EP has 16 boats at their busy time and Belize Fly has 6 going. Hey, Belize is big, but the past few times I was there on those flats, which are beautiful, a half dozen boats were hoping for the same fish. Some boats running across them and getting impatient.

Caye Caulker has access to the southern cayes, which can be good for bigger fish. But if that is off, you could be back in the crowd. Haywood Curry runs the operation out of Caulker. You can reach out to him. Will Flack is at Belize Fly and now has a place in Hopkins as well. Yellow Dog works with numerous lodges down there. El Pescador is Disney Land for fly fisherman. Choose that only if you want the pampered experience.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I say go to the keys. Worst case scenario, book a night time trip with Capt. Russell Kleppinger and he can just about gaurantee you your first tarpon on fly. It won't be sight casting at strings of fish oceanside, but you'll likely be sight casting your fly at fish on the shadow lines. I have sight casted many with him at night as the fish stage near the cuts feeding in the current. You swing your fly in front of the fish and they will eat it.

A couple years ago Marc Crapo was down in the keys fishing for a week shooting a film for the fly fishing film festival. After a week of fishing with several guides, they had the big goose egg. Marc called me to see if I had any advice for him and his crew and I was actually sitting in the car with Capt. Russ and got them set up to go out with Russ that night. They landed MANY tarpon and it saved their whole trip. Again, it's not the oceanside thing, but don't be fooled. Tarpon fishing at night with a fly rod is still great time, especially when you're fishing with the Capt. Russ who will find you fish that are going nuts. I've done a lot of night time tarpon fishing on my own, and with other buddies who are guides, but the stuff I have experienced with Russ is out of this world.

Night time fish range from 40lb to 180lbs easily. He might start you off with a smaller fish just to break the ice, then have you tackle a monster. It's crazy how in-tune he is with the fishery. He's got an Egret for the night time bridge stuff and a brand new 2017 Chittum skiff for the oceanside poons. 

Here's a short video from a trip last year. Russell called me and told me to head down to the keys that we were going to catch some poons, so I didn't hesitate and made it down. I had spent the whole day fishing, caught a bonefish on the 5wt in the morning in Biscayne Bay, got home, got the call from Russ, jumped back in the truck and drove down to his house in Islamorada.






You wont be disappointed.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

coconutgroves said:


> The issue with Caye Caulker is that some of the best flats it has access to are hit by boats from Ambergris, specifically at El Pescador and Belize Fly. I've heard EP has 16 boats at their busy time and Belize Fly has 6 going. Hey, Belize is big, but the past few times I was there on those flats, which are beautiful, a half dozen boats were hoping for the same fish. Some boats running across them and getting impatient.


This is the info I need. I would lose my shit if a bunch of boats blew up a perfectly good flat. What is the solution? Somewhere else in Belize. I think the fact that I can go in July might mean there will be less crowds. I wouldn't mind seeing another boat but a crowd isn't really my thing. I go to the water to get away from the crowds.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

If you want to catch a bunch of small tarpon, decent sized snook, see some excellent Mexican professional baseball and see ancient ruins hook up with Raul Castaneda of Tarpon Town in Campeche Mexico. http://www.tarpontown.com/ Easy to get to with lots of fun sized Tarpon. Took my wife there many years ago and she caught a lot of fish, up to 40 lbs., Campeche is a great Town and Raul and his guides are excellent.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> What happens after the eat is controlled chaos. It can be explained to you, you can see it, but until it happens to you, it cannot be comprehended. *Your first big fish will hand your ass to you so fast you'll wonder what happened* and have to sit down from the rush of adrenaline that is shaking your knees. You'll barely be able to hold the beer the guide hands you to calm your nerves.


So true. I got flat out owned. It wasn't much of a contest.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

The guides in the Keys, in general, are better. Their equipment, in general is better. Yes I have been to both and they are both good. But the time I went to Belize for tarpon we saw two adult fish. There just weren't any around. One small lagoon was pretty thick with baby tarpon in the 5-15# range. But it was also so think with bugs that we fished it for 15 minutes and had to get the heck out of there. I have never been to the Keys and not seen a mess of fish. Now getting them to eat not so easy. But I know for a fact that you can't catch what isn't there....lol

You really need to decide what is the most important. If you really really want to get bit on fly then yes Belize will likely get you at least some small bones. But if you really want tarpon then FL is where its at for sight fishing adult poons. Dont go to Belize if tarpon is your goal. Yes there are tarpon there but it is much more a bonefish and permit fishery. As noted already outside of FL the other sight fishing tarpon game is Mexico. Even the Bahamas are a crap shoot for tarpon but the bonefishing there is IMO much better than Mexico or Belize (less fish but average bigger in the Bahamas).

Bottom line is there isn't a bad choice here. You are doing the right thing. Evaluate your options. Understand the pros and cons then go for it!!


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

5 days on the bow should yield you at least one fish, if your casting game is on point. There's all different size fish in the keys. Throw into a string of fish a 60lb fish may eat it or a 100lb fish may eat it. Like I said. Fishing florida bay is also an option and those fish tend to eat better in the dirtier water! 

Alonzo


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

5 days on the bow should yield you at least one fish, if your casting game is on point. There's all different size fish in the keys. Throw into a string of fish a 60lb fish may eat it or a 100lb fish may eat it. Like I said. Fishing florida bay is also an option and those fish tend to eat better in the dirtier water! 

Alonzo


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

sotilloa1078 said:


> 5 days on the bow should yield you at least one fish, if your casting game is on point. There's all different size fish in the keys. Throw into a string of fish a 60lb fish may eat it or a 100lb fish may eat it. Like I said. Fishing florida bay is also an option and those fish tend to eat better in the dirtier water!
> 
> Alonzo


Are the two options the bay or the ocean side? The guide I had spoken with said for me he suggested staying off the ocean side and coming earlier in the season. He said the ocean side fish of June are maddening. If I am in the bay does this mean I will be casting to rolling fish instead of those picture prefect chains I'm thinking of?


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

brokeoff said:


> Are the two options the bay or the ocean side? The guide I had spoken with said for me he suggested staying off the ocean side and coming earlier in the season. He said the ocean side fish of June are maddening. If I am in the bay does this mean I will be casting to rolling fish instead of those picture prefect chains I'm thinking of?


The bay side will produce may different experiences. You will have "swimmers", laid up fish, and rollers. The picture perfect chains are definitely and ocean side thing as the water is crystal clear. You can do both in a day really if the tides are right.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

As probably the least experienced tarpon fisherman in this thread, I'd suggest shooting for some 50-80 lb fish. The only tarpon I've caught was in the 50-60 lb range, and it was an absolute riot. I caught mine on bait, and my buddy caught one almost the same size on a little paddle tail just blind casting around dock lights hoping to pick up a snook. I can not even imagine how exciting those fish would have been on the fly.

I don't know the reason behind your goals, but I think the size of the tarpon should be pretty low on the priority list. Good luck, and let us know how you do! I would love to go out on guided trips for multiple days in a row -- I think that would be such a cool in-depth experience, to spend that much time with someone that really knows the fishery.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

bryson said:


> I don't know the reason behind your goals.


Which goals? I will try and explain my reasoning.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

As an experienced tarpon fisherman, I can tell you know that the 50-80 lb fish are my favorites.

Those big ones are fun for 5 minutes, then it starts to turn into work (and of course the ever-present worry about a breakoff).


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## Zhunter (Feb 19, 2014)

Let me clue some folks in, YOU do not target different sizes in the Keys (unless you are going for Juvies), you take what takes  In a string of fish, there is no telling which one is gonna eat your fly, be prepared for 50-150 pounds. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

@brokeoff My bad -- looks like we are on the same page. I looked back through the thread and saw on the first page where you said "I think for me the size of the fish matters the least." Somewhere along the way I got lost in the talk of trophy fish. I've only been down there 3 times, and never inshore with a guide, so take what I say with several grains of salt.

Anyway, you should definitely be able to get some good fishing down there with a guide, just make sure they know you are looking to sight fish rather than blind cast. One good thing about targeting the mid-sized tarpon is that the bycatch could be permit, bones, snook, or any other fun species, depending on which area of the Keys you go and how you're fishing (flats vs mangroves, etc). Regardless, those guys seem to know what's up for the most part.

Good luck man, and definitely report back! What area of the Keys are you looking at? Sorry if I missed it elsewhere in the thread.


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## cougmantx (May 25, 2016)

I worked in the Keys in 1998 and hired a guide a couple of times. While I had been practicing every thing the first cast to a Tarpon it was like I had forgotten all I had learned. My knee's were knocking so bad my whole body was trembling. I finally caught a #50 Tarpon before I left but I wouldn't trade those days on the water for anything. Oh, the buddy I was fishing with caught a Bone, Tarpon and Permit all on the same day. Wouldn't have missed it for anything.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

You will also learn a lot more IMO from fishing with a good keys guide than you will from anyone in BZE or MX. If you do the MX/BZE thing you should call up Yellow Dog. They are really knowledgeable and helpful IME.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

jsnipes said:


> You will also learn a lot more IMO from fishing with a good keys guide than you will from anyone in BZE or MX. If you do the MX/BZE thing you should call up Yellow Dog. They are really knowledgeable and helpful IME.


This is the impression I was under. I am in contact with one guide for the Keys and Yellow Dog for elsewhere. In Belize they suggested one of two guides to maximize the experience based on my skill set.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MRichardson said:


> As an experienced tarpon fisherman, I can tell you know that the 50-80 lb fish are my favorites.
> 
> Those big ones are fun for 5 minutes, then it starts to turn into work (and of course the ever-present worry about a breakoff).


Ditto!

To the OP....

Yeah the smaller ones are typically males, full of piss and vinegar and you can usually get more jumps and greyhounding out of them (more fun in a shorter amount of time). Plus they can be whipped faster so you can go after more. One big fish tho can wipe you out for the rest of the day.

Anything above 100lbs, you are getting into female territory and they fight differently and end up bulldog more. In the Keys, it's tough to find multiple fish over 100lbs unless you are fishing the bridges. Then it becomes a whole different ballgame to try to get those fish to eat a fly, which is better suited at night (a little un-nerving for some). Sure you see that one big girl with a string of males following her and it's tough to get a fly to her since the smaller males are more competitive, trying to prove to each other who's the mack daddy. That being said to the OP, don't throw to the lead fish. If you want more eats, throw to the 3rd or 4th fish behind the lead fish. Typically, the lead fish is the momma and a lot of times, she wouldn't eat and if your fly is not acting just right, will blow up and therefore, blow up the whole school.

Ted Haas


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

@Backwater - I've seen if the second fish is close behind the lead fish, making the cast to the lead fish will cause a competitive reaction on the second fish. I've had permit eat this way as well. But the second fish has to be close, either mid lead fish, or just at the tail. If it is trailing by a fish length or more, holding the cast and hitting it with the ideal angle is the key. 

@brokeoff - one key to hooking up is understanding the angle and the "eat cone" on a poon. There is a zone and angle that is ideal. Outside of this zone and angle, the chances diminish. Andy Mill covers it in his awesome book, A Passion for Tarpon. Excellent book - one of the best ever made in the sport. Highly recommended.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

brokeoff said:


> I'm starting to get second thoughts about a Keys tarpon trip. For a few months I have been researching every trip in the tropics and I thought I had settled on the Keys. The Bahamas seemed out of my price range. Belize seemed like the focus would end up being on smaller bonefish. This led me to an April 2018 Keys trip. I'm spooked for two reasons. First, some people said it's not as good as it used to be. Second, people said their is little room for inexperience.
> 
> I don't mind a challenge but I would be super disappointed if I didn't get an eat in 5 days. Does this mean I should look elsewhere?


Just Do It!


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

coconutgroves said:


> @brokeoff - one key to hooking up is understanding the angle and the "eat cone" on a poon. There is a zone and angle that is ideal. Outside of this zone and angle, the chances diminish. Andy Mill covers it in his awesome book, A Passion for Tarpon. Excellent book - one of the best ever made in the sport. Highly recommended.


This book is on my radar. A bit pricey seeing that I'm saving for a fishing trip. But I'll see if I can make it work.

Also, what's the deal with the numbers game with these fish? Before I make a final decision, can someone explain how they deal with correctly presenting to a fish and getting snubbed. And multiple times? Is that part of the draw?


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

Yes, refusals are part of the game. Wouldnt be any fun if it were easy, right? 

A Passion for Tarpon is indeed an excellent book. Another excellent choice if you're looking to add to your library is Tarpon on fly by Donald Larmouth and Rob Fordyce. Much less pricey and much of the same information is covered, albeit without the excellent conversations with the sport's greats.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

If you aren't prepared to make numerous shots, put the fly in the right place, and not getting bit then tarpon is not the game for you. It is exactly what makes it so special. When it comes together you have truly accomplished something.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Just an update. Sent my deposit in with Belize Fly and I'll be heading out with the owner in August of 2018. I made it clear that I'm only interested in going with him and he confirmed. One of my concerns was the difference in quality of guides between the Keys and Central America. I'm sure it won't be easy but I'll have a bit more variety if things get super frustrating. 

I've been practicing with an 11 wt and seem to be managing okay. I need more time casting in different wind directions and on the water.

Appreciate all the input.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Dude, living in Texas I probably spent 20 days on dedicated tarpon trips in FL over 5 years before I jumped my first tarpon. Sometimes the weather was crap, sometimes the fish just didn't show, sometimes my casting was crap, you name it and it all conspired to make for no fish.

But I enjoyed those trips just by being on the water, learning, improving my casting, and obsessing over what I did wrong and what I could do better. And all that disappointment did was fuel my obsession.

It made it totally worth it when I jumped that first poon and even more so when I leadered my first one and even more when I actually got to grab the face of a big, 120# class tarpon. And in the last 3 years I have about as many days chasing tarpon and leadered or grabbed 20 poon and jumped almost that many more.

I'm not going to tell you where to go or where not to go or even encourage you to go at all but if it's truly worth it to you the disappointment will only fuel your desire.

Because, and I've said it 100 times, the first time you jump a big tarpon on the fly is like the first time you have sex. You know it's going to be awesome but you're not fully prepared for how awesome it really is. Then, it's over way to quickly and you're left breathing heavily, weak in the knees, and a bit shaky. And all you know is you want to do it over and over and over again.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Dude, living in Texas I probably spent 20 days on dedicated tarpon trips in FL over 5 years before I jumped my first tarpon. Sometimes the weather was crap, sometimes the fish just didn't show, sometimes my casting was crap, you name it and it all conspired to make for no fish.
> 
> But I enjoyed those trips just by being on the water, learning, improving my casting, and obsessing over what I did wrong and what I could do better. And all that disappointment did was fuel my obsession.
> 
> ...


So you're telling me to bring a cigarette for after it happens?


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

brokeoff said:


> So you're telling me to bring a cigarette for after it happens?


Absolutely.

And I rarely drink when fishing in the summer. At most a beer or two and that beer definitely comes after a fish when you need to sit down, gather your wits, and get back to neutral.

Last year about puked my guts up while fighting a big 130# fish. I had a big chaw of Levi Garrett in my mouth and was coming to the tail end of it when this big mama came out of some sandier water into the clear (we were staked out near a color change) and gave me a perfect shot, about 50' coming from 11 - 9 (I'm right handed) and I laid my fly out and pulled it across her face. She turned and followed it and absolutely trash-canned it about 20 feet off the bow (you always remember seeing that mouth open up and suck down a fly), she comes tight and all hell breaks loose, I clear the line and she's jumping all over the place. Big-time jumps for a fish this big. In fact, she never really ran and barely went into my backing but really just bulldogged the fight- maybe she halfway knocked herself out on a jump? Anyway, I'm putting the heat on and I accidentally sucked down some of that chaw and start gagging on it- so I'm trying to fight this fish while gagging and dry-heaving on a chaw while my guide is laughing his ass off at me. I finally manage to get the chaw spit out and hack up the remainder and focus on the fish- we get her alongside, grab the leader and are about to grab her for some pics (she was a beast) and she chews through the bite leader and swims away.

Good times.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

brokeoff said:


> Just an update. Sent my deposit in with Belize Fly and I'll be heading out with the owner in August of 2018. I made it clear that I'm only interested in going with him and he confirmed. * One of my concerns was the difference in quality of guides between the Keys and Central America.* I'm sure it won't be easy but I'll have a bit more variety if things get super frustrating.
> 
> I've been practicing with an 11 wt and seem to be managing okay. I need more time casting in different wind directions and on the water.
> 
> Appreciate all the input.



I haven't been to Belize personally, but know many who have. It just depends on the outfit. Some only use guides that they know are good, others will hire anyone who can operate a boat. I have heard mixed reviews about the guides Belize Fly uses, but sounds like you are going with the owner so I would imagine it won't be an issue. I have been to Mexico and will tell you with a quality outfit or booking agent, the guides are fantastic.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

brokeoff said:


> Just an update. Sent my deposit in with Belize Fly and I'll be heading out with the owner in August of 2018. I made it clear that I'm only interested in going with him and he confirmed. One of my concerns was the difference in quality of guides between the Keys and Central America. I'm sure it won't be easy but I'll have a bit more variety if things get super frustrating.
> 
> I've been practicing with an 11 wt and seem to be managing okay. I need more time casting in different wind directions and on the water.
> 
> Appreciate all the input.


If that is your expectation then you better have it in writing. Print it out and take it with you. Its easy once an outfit has your money to "forget" or say "they didnt' have that understanding" I don't know anything about this outfit but it always pays to have your ducks in a row.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

ifsteve said:


> If that is your expectation then you better have it in writing. Print it out and take it with you. Its easy once an outfit has your money to "forget" or say "they didnt' have that understanding" I don't know anything about this outfit but it always pays to have your ducks in a row.


Good idea. I plan to check in periodically so nothing gets mixed up. Seems like a good guy and has been happy to deal with my excessive inquiries.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

brokeoff said:


> So you're telling me to bring a cigarette for after it happens?


My hands were shaking the first time I called out a poon for my buddy from the poling platform that resulted in an eat, multiple jumps, and a skiff chase. 

Its a team sport if you are sight fishing on fly. An eat or a jump is a win for the whole boat.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Eats and jumps? Those are moral victories! Get that poon to the leader for it to count. Fish to hand is the gravy on top of that biscuit.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Want a real challenge? Sight fish a Tampa red.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

K3anderson said:


> Want a real challenge? Sight fish a Tampa red.


I have a buddy who wants me to get down to visit him in Jacksonville. He doesn't fish much but it got me to thinking about redfish. Where are the best spots to fish for tailing reds?


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

brokeoff said:


> I have a buddy who wants me to get down to visit him in Jacksonville. He doesn't fish much but it got me to thinking about redfish. Where are the best spots to fish for tailing reds?


For NE Florida think flood tides, grass, fiddler crabs.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

brokeoff said:


> Just an update. Sent my deposit in with Belize Fly and I'll be heading out with the owner in August of 2018. I made it clear that I'm only interested in going with him and he confirmed. One of my concerns was the difference in quality of guides between the Keys and Central America. I'm sure it won't be easy but I'll have a bit more variety if things get super frustrating.
> 
> I've been practicing with an 11 wt and seem to be managing okay. I need more time casting in different wind directions and on the water.
> 
> Appreciate all the input.


Just FYI - I've also tried to book with the owner and been "confirmed" and then had random other guides show up that have been pretty mediocre. Best of luck!


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

jsnipes said:


> Just FYI - I've also tried to book with the owner and been "confirmed" and then had random other guides show up that have been pretty mediocre. Best of luck!


How far in advance did you book?


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

~3 months. Although, I think that's pretty meaningless. I explicitly asked for the dates he was available, booked those, and ended up with someone else. I am understanding that we will all have our own lives, etc. but didn't hear any apology, explanation, etc.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

jsnipes said:


> ~3 months. Although, I think that's pretty meaningless. I explicitly asked for the dates he was available, booked those, and ended up with someone else. I am understanding that we will all have our own lives, etc. but didn't hear any apology, explanation, etc.


Yeah, that's not cool. I've only communicated via email but I can tell I have spoken with two different people at least. It's going on 50 emails.


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## MichaelC59 (May 20, 2017)

brokeoff said:


> Yeah, that's not cool. I've only communicated via email but I can tell I have spoken with two different people at least. It's going on 50 emails.


I fished with a guide with Belize Fly, actually a grandfather and his grandson, obviously neither were the owner but I didn't make any request for the owner. Then, the second day, I fished with Fish Belize and happened to fish with the father. It was my first trip to Belize and to fly fish for bones. They were small bones as can be expected in Belize, but for a first time, it was an awesome experience. I'll just say, brush up on your casting skills.

Also, I am trying to pull together a trip to Islamorada for late March/early April with my intent to do some backcountry fly fishing, and some flats fishing. A lot to sort out, especially when I'll have a mixed bag of guys along for the trip as some will be fishing conventional tackle. So, need to sort out guides and accommodations.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

K3anderson said:


> Want a real challenge? Sight fish a Tampa red.


A real challenge is trying to hook a poon in this weather.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

I have been to Belize a couple times and its awesome. 
The Tarpon are on the smaller side, 50# and below.
When I go back again all I will target is Permit. They eat the fly well and there are some pigs around!
Good Luck, the weather is everything.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

backbone said:


> I have been to Belize a couple times and its awesome.
> The Tarpon are on the smaller side, 50# and below.
> When I go back again all I will target is Permit. They eat the fly well and there are some pigs around!
> Good Luck, the weather is everything.


They aren't permit if you think they eat the fly well. I don't care where you are, permit are permit. I've fished for them in areas that get no pressure at all. None. And they all act the same. Belize doesn't have special fish that are better or easier. You may get more shots, which is key. But again, you may not. I've had 30 solid shots in a day and a permit to hand early on my first day. And I've seen the fish SHUT DOWN for 4 days after for no reason whatsoever with maybe 5 shots per day. And gill netting continues to be a real problem down there, especially further south where the bigger fish are at.

I love Belize and go once a year, but the word is out and fish get a lot of pressure in Ambergris thanks to the lodge there. Level set your expectations and you'll have great time. But it isn't some unknown place where the fish are more abundant and eat flies without hesitation. Those places aren't a 2 hour flight from Houston.


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## That Skiff Guy (Mar 1, 2017)

Padre said:


> Ha ha. That is a great story. Reminds me of what happened to me. I picked up a skiff in PR and brought it back to FL. That is what got me interested in skinny water fishing. Then I started watching videos of fly fishing for reds, etc. and I thought that looked exciting. A buddy gives me his 10wt rod he had never used. So I go out 1st time, see a tailing red fish and catch him in the 2nd cast. I thought this isn't as hard as it looks. After that, nothing. 2 months later I take fly casting lessons from Chris Myers in Orlando. He takes one look at my cast and says, "You really caught a tailing redfish on fly?" That's when I started the Blind Squirrel Fishing Team. It pays to be lucky when you aren't good.


That one gave me a good laugh. I recently had similar luck in landing my first tarpon on the fly. 8wt I have had laying around, but never got around to using it until recently for peacock bass. I found mirco tarpon off a bridge in the everglades rolling. First cast threw a black and purple fly, stripped set and the rest was history. That fish jumped 10 times and was landed from shore. Ended up going 5/10 on tarpon and 1/2 on snook. I hope I can carve out some time to get back there this weekend.


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

I fished Belize thinking you catch every fish you see after all it is Belize...

So, I see a snook the size of my leg - perfect cast just the right angle and it swam right by the fly. The snub was burned into my brain permanently.... Trying to figure what just happened = woke up that night wondering how that fish in Belize didn't eat??? After another day of casting at fish I determined the guide probably threw at that fish every morning. I found Belize to be as difficult as Biscayne Bay and the Keys - there is only so much water and they are out there every day. Still enjoyed myself and I had plenty of shots. Guide was not keys quality but good guy, good stories, and there are a lot of fish. 

Bones were easy! Ripped a few lips - they aren't biscayne bay bones... Smaller but bends the rod.

Go by Rojo Beach Bar - great place, great people, great food!!!


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