# Chittum Mangrove / Laguna Madre II



## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to do write up. It helps that they are serious eye candy.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Santa (@sjrobin) came early in TX









Seagulls like the Mangrove 









Family cruise 









Holbox Snook


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Damn that’s the nicest skiff in Mexico!!


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## Fritz (Jan 17, 2017)

Great write up Stevie!


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Nicely done fedora fly fisher.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Photos of the Mangrove 12 degree portable fuel tank, its slot in the bow locker, and 1 of the blue reserve tanks... two reserve tanks fit against the bulkhead in the front locker with straps. We were able to squeeze a Ryobi leaf basket w/ Line Tamer on top of all those fuel tanks, not much else.... After seeing 10 mpg consumption reported above, we probably will switch to 2 portable 6 gallon Yamaha tanks.

A Yeti 18 Hopper Flip fits exactly under the carbon seat. That and a Yeti 30 Hopper give us plenty of cooler space. We’re using soft coolers on the LM2... I bought a West Marine deck chair for family and extra crew for the LM2.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Fishshoot said:


> Damn that’s the nicest skiff in Mexico!!


@Sabalon runs a beautiful Marquesa in Holbox with his guide Darwin, whom I highly recommend.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Stevie said:


> IMO, Chittum began building their best and lightest skiffs upon introducing the Mangrove Edition 12 and 2 degree / Laguna Madre II last summer. To me, the Mangrove /LM2 compare in weight and pole-ability to the very first HB Whipray 16s. Yet, the Mangrove / LM2 skiffs are made from the same 18 foot molds as earlier Chittum skiffs, providing a large, comfortable fishing platform that is dry and seaworthy. The Mangrove / LM2 are designed for Tohatsu 30/50/60 4 strokes. IMO, it's not necessary or advisable to put a tunnel on the 2 degree LM2. The Mangrove Edition is offered at lower prices than the heavier Snake Bight or Laguna Madre 1: $43.5k for a bare bones Tohatsu 30 tiller; $49.5k for a center console with Tohatsu 50.
> 
> I've owned poling skiffs since 2007. Two years ago, I began experimenting with a lot of skiffs. I'm 52... primarily fish Port O'Connor, TX, which is very shallow and the best skiffs seem to be tunnels. After getting a Chittum Laguna Madre 18 tunnel in late 2017 for POC, I wanted a simple boat to learn Galveston. Through some very cool MS guys, I was entrusted with 1998 HB Whipray, Hull #7 in the Spring of last year. Whipray #7 became my ideal skiff for weight, ease of poling, draft, minimalistic layout, no lights, portable fuel tanks, very low poling platform (24" above the deck). I was very happy with the 25 Merc 2 stroke as a light weight outboard, which keeps the Whipray balanced, as it was originally designed... Merc 25 offers just enough power. But, I wanted to add a jack-plate and power tilt for shallow running in TX. Hence, I sent Whipray #7 to Hal Chittum last summer for re-rigging and some other conservation work... that project is almost done.
> 
> ...


Good explanation of the Chittum skiff evolution and your personal experience with the evolution. I agree with your assessment of the Mangrove non-tunnel vs Laguna Madre tunnel from my experience on the skiffs with you and T Horbey. I really enjoyed fishing your latest edition Mangrove.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Ok @Stevie 
Pretty sure that's a Stetson Business or Open Road. Either way, nice hat!


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

LowHydrogen said:


> Ok @Stevie
> Pretty sure that's a Stetson Business or Open Road. Either way, nice hat![/QUOTE
> 
> @LowHydrogen It's an Optimo Texan in silverbelly, now about 5 years old a which was inspired by the Stetson Open Road. For a perfect head (bald) like mine, the hat is a utilitarian item...so why not have fun? This one has fallen in the saltwater many times, and patina gets better every year....


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

This link shows the Mangrove 12 degree prototype run by George at the Stuart / St Lucie Inlet. It was still a tiller then. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bntf8l5hDGc/


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Very nice Stevie congrats on the beautiful boat.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Steve, please stop posting info on Chittum Skiff; I think there is some rule against it.
I need go fishing with you soon though.

In all seriousness, I had heard that all the kinks were not worked out of the Laguna Madre, something about the way the tunnel works and keeping water pressure. Is this familiar to you?

These boats look great.

Mike

BTW, we are going to need a heavy ballast because I weight about 265.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Fantastic write up Stevie. Hal never quits trying to improve.

It will be interesting to see if they make a skiff specifically for the new Tohatsu 60 to handle the stresses from higher speed.

What’s really interesting to me is that Chittum is putting long carbon trim tabs on skiffs with 115+ HP and getting increased speed and stability over standard 12” tabs.

Maybe you could put those on your LM2 to improve hole shot. Just an idea.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Stevie said:


> This link shows the Mangrove 12 degree prototype run by George at the Stuart / St Lucie Inlet. It was still a tiller then.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bntf8l5hDGc/


Very thorough review.

So.....is the 1998 Whipray still your favorite? Hard to tell from the write up.


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

Stevie, if you keep up all this Chittum talk you’re going to get me in big trouble with the wife. 

I’m also going to need to see pictures of ole #7 when Hal’s done with her.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Stevie said:


> Photos of the Mangrove 12 degree portable fuel tank, its slot in the bow locker, and 1 of the blue reserve tanks... two reserve tanks fit against the bulkhead in the front locker with straps. We were able to squeeze a Ryobi leaf basket w/ Line Tamer on top of all those fuel tanks, not much else.... After seeing 10 mpg consumption reported above, we probably will switch to 2 portable 6 gallon Yamaha tanks.
> 
> A Yeti 18 Hopper Flip fits exactly under the carbon seat. That and a Yeti 30 Hopper give us plenty of cooler space. We’re using soft coolers on the LM2... I bought a West Marine deck chair for family and extra crew for the LM2.
> 
> ...


Remember to keep the portable fuel tanks full with the correct ratio of ring free plus Startron fuel stabilizer and/or plenty of spare spin on fuel filters.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Net 30 said:


> Very thorough review.
> 
> So.....is the 1998 Whipray still your favorite? Hard to tell from the write up.


Howdy @Net 30,

Sorry I wasn't clear, at the time I got #7, as a skiff for Texas, the Laguna Madre tunnel was my favorite overall skiff in terms of shallow running, crossing bays, holeshot. Whipray #7 set an ideal for me in terms of pole-ability and overall weight of a skiff-- #7 could not handle the shallow running in large areas of the Middle TX Coast south--Port O'Connor and south (#7 will be better with a JP). Whipray #7 also taught me to minimize rigging and options. Today, my favorite is the Laguna Madre II for Texas. If I had to pick just one skiff, it might be the Mangrove 12 degree.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Mike Geer said:


> Steve, please stop posting info on Chittum Skiff; I think there is some rule against it.
> I need go fishing with you soon though.
> 
> In all seriousness, I had heard that all the kinks were not worked out of the Laguna Madre, something about the way the tunnel works and keeping water pressure. Is this familiar to you?
> ...


Hey Mike,

I weigh 210 (I'm my own skiff weight reduction opportunity). The guy I normally fish with weighs 275...

I ran the Laguna Madre tunnel nearly a year without a tunnel extension or Jack Foreman scoops. It was the best TX skiff I'd ever run. Occasionally when running deep water in a cross chop, the tunnel would go dry-- water pressure would drop, but propulsion was not a problem. Adding the tunnel extension and Jack Foreman scoops made a big difference. 

What Chittum was trying to perfect, but never quite got, was the low water pickups installed on the tunnel. None of the guides that run tunnels ever wanted to mess with that feature. I believe Chittum is close to perfecting a low water pick-up that could even be used on a non-tunnel boat... with some valuable input from @Smackdaddy53


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Thx Steve.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Stevie said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> I weigh 210 (I'm my own skiff weight reduction opportunity). The guy I normally fish with weighs 275...
> 
> ...


Yessir, I bet listening to Smack and Hal go back and forth on his low water pickup idea and build out was very entertaining.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

Stevie, if you had to pick one model for south FL including everything from long runs along the coast to bonefish flats, what model would be ideal?


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Half Shell said:


> Stevie, if you had to pick one model for south FL including everything from long runs along the coast to bonefish flats, what model would be ideal?


@Half Shell , At the same money, I would pick a 12 degree Mangrove 18 with Tohatsu 50/60 with a simple center console and remote steering over a Snake Bight with F70, but the Mangrove is $10k cheaper...

Other comments:

Your choice on how much carbon... to me, the base model 12 degree Mangrove (just carbon transom / structural parts) without additional carbon upgrades is just fine as I have portable gas tanks. 

Regarding the Tohatsu 60.... which is just being introduced in the USA.... my guess is that the Mangrove 18 with Tohatsu 60 will be as fast as a Snake Bight with F70. *** Even if the transom were reinforced on the Mangrove to accommodate an F70, I don't think the extra 46 pounds of a F70 would be advisable on a Mangrove as it would squat too much, negating performance of balance when poling.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Very nice Stevie congrats on the beautiful boat.


Thanks Jimmy, I'm grateful for the opportunity to share my skiff experiences with the MS community. I appreciate the nice friends I've met on MS. I've also learned a lot...


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

I am pretty sure I would want a Mangrove 2 degree with Tohatsu 50-60 tiller (not sure the center console with the added rigging is worth the comfort of a wheel). I would want a jack plate. I have talked to Harry Spears about a similar skiff. I am very interested in your take on the tunnel/no tunnel for the water that I fish.

Thx Steve


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Stevie said:


> Howdy @Net 30,
> 
> Sorry I wasn't clear, at the time I got #7, as a skiff for Texas, the Laguna Madre tunnel was my favorite overall skiff in terms of shallow running, crossing bays, holeshot. Whipray #7 set an ideal for me in terms of pole-ability and overall weight of a skiff-- #7 could not handle the shallow running in large areas of the Middle TX Coast south--Port O'Connor and south (#7 will be better with a JP). Whipray #7 also taught me to minimize rigging and options. Today, my favorite is the Laguna Madre II for Texas. If I had to pick just one skiff, it might be the Mangrove 12 degree.


Thanks Steve. Best of luck on your ever expending fleet of skiffs.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

When (if) I grow up I want to have as many skiffs as Stevie!


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Stevie for president! Great writeup...makes me want a 12 degree Mangrove


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Thanks for all the nice comments... I'm just a nut that decided to buy too many skiffs... hope I'm done reporting about new skiffs, and rather can offer some fishing reports...

What is exceptional is the development which has occurred at Chittum. I will try to go back in my report and provide my estimated weights by boat to show this development. @MariettaMike thanks for your observation about Hal's continuous quest for innovation. Hal is not well understood and certainly the constant evolution in Chittum's shop is not broadly understood, which is why I wrote these posts... I would also say that the whole Chittum team (George, Shane, Mike) really care about quality, love what they do and provide incredible service.


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

Stevie,

Great write-up on the Chittum skiffs. I too, cannot wait to see the updated/refreshed Whip #7 photos and commentary!

You must tell me about Holbox soon. I want to take fly fishing Mexico off my bucket list.

Thanks,

Bob


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Snookdaddy said:


> Stevie,
> 
> Great write-up on the Chittum skiffs. I too, cannot wait to see the updated/refreshed Whip #7 photos and commentary!
> 
> ...


@Snookdaddy Hey Bob,

You are a gentleman as always. Nice to hear from you. Will be in touch soon. 

Best,


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Stevie said:


> @Half Shell , At the same money, I would pick a 12 degree Mangrove 18 with Tohatsu 50/60 with a simple center console and remote steering over a Snake Bight with F70, but the Mangrove is $10k cheaper...
> 
> Other comments:
> 
> ...


Just checked on tohatsu 60 models n 2 r available: one with 2.33 gear ratio n other normal ratio. Both yamaha n tohatsu r same cubic inches but 4 cylinder vs 3 cylinder. Yamaha must change lower unit to stay with weight for lighter skiff power. Rather than stay with f115 2.33 unit now on f70 engines std should offer 2 lower unit options like tohatsu... My 2 cents...


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks for the writeup and photos! I really like how they made the cutout for the portable tank in the bow. I enjoy getting to see those kind of pictures, in addition to the glamour shots that usually get thrown around.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Stevie,

Thanks for the write up and photos. Now I am totally worthless for the rest of the work day.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Ran & poled the full carbon 12 degree Mangrove 18 at the Miami Boatshow. Very nice riding boat. It was a rocket with the Tohatsu 60. Definitely lighter than the standard glass Mangrove. The ride is very soft. Chittum’s IG page has various videos. It’s hard for people to understand how these lighter boats skim over rough water and ride very well. When the bow bounces, it lands softly.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuCmOk-lFmB/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=5peggk9tap4b

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt9qiqBFKtI/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1hcp2p3uidj6m

Will add photos tomorrow


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Stevie said:


> Ran & poled the full carbon 12 degree Mangrove 18 at the Miami Boatshow. Very nice riding boat. It was a rocket with the Tohatsu 60. Definitely lighter than the standard glass Mangrove. The ride is very soft. Chittum’s IG page has various videos. People really don’t understand how these lighter boats skim over rough water and ride very well. When the bow bounces, it lands softly.
> 
> Will add photos tomorrow


What kind of poling draft on the full carbon 12 degree?


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

EvanHammer said:


> What kind of poling draft on the full carbon 12 degree?


It was high tide. We did not measure. My guess is 6.5”.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Stevie said:


> Ran & poled the full carbon 12 degree Mangrove 18 at the Miami Boatshow. Very nice riding boat. It was a rocket with the Tohatsu 60. Definitely lighter than the standard glass Mangrove. The ride is very soft. Chittum’s IG page has various videos. People really don’t understand how these lighter boats skim over rough water and ride very well. When the bow bounces, it lands softly.
> 
> Will add photos tomorrow


What kind of poling draft on the full carbon 12 degree?


Stevie said:


> It was high tide. We did not measure. My guess is 6.5”.


I gotta get me a producing oil well


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## TidewateR (Nov 11, 2009)

EvanHammer said:


> I gotta get me a producing oil well


or a BIL with a few


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## jonny (May 1, 2007)

Stevie have you ever thought about seeking professional help? My Lord man you have gained four decades of skiff knowledge in the last ten years. You gave very insightful, technical and useful information in your write ups.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Howdy @jonny

Thanks for your nice comments.

I do have professional help. My shrink told me: “You’re whacked in the head. There’s no hope. The only place you might find a place in this world is by participating in a really sick chat room called MicroSkiff...”

Seriously I had a bit of a health scare a year ago....peeled back a couple layers of veneer....decided to really enjoy life, family, friends, and fish as much as possible. Sold my sports car and bought more skiffs. Trying to establish footholds in places I want to learn more about running a skiff.... Don’t drink any more, love my wife, gave up collecting useless stuff...

I learned a lot more about skiffs on this forum, and a bunch through dealing with Chittum...

For all of this I’m most grateful.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Stevie said:


> Howdy @jonny
> 
> Thanks for your nice comments.
> 
> ...


Note to self: Be like Skiff Yoda.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Carbon Mangrove 12 degree w/ Tohatsu 60. Finally uploaded with “cut and paste”


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

manny2376 said:


> @Stevie so, safe to say the carbon upgrades shave those 80# you’re referring to, as the boat show skiff was a carbon build to my knowledge. I’m not a fan of a portable fuel cell, so that would be something I would look to spec as a built in, but I’m not married to the “carbon” idea. It’s my understanding that carbon components are used through the standard build and one can upgrade how much extra is used, correct?



You should talk to George Sawley about weights.

As I understand all boats have 15% carbon in structural parts. The carbon updgrade costs $6500 and saves about 100 pounds. The full carbon boat costs $15k extra and saves another 50 pounds or 150 total vs the standard composite build. I calculated 20 pounds weight savings for the portable gas tank, hence net 80 pounds heavier than the carbon boat.

The prototype 12 degree I have in MX (photos in thread above) is standard Mangrove w/ portable gas tanks. It poles very easily. When my guide drops me off on the beach, I whip the boat around 180 degrees, like nothing with an easy push, so he doesn’t have to back up into waves.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Stevie said:


> View attachment 57228
> 
> Mangrove 2 degree prototype


Great write up. I finally got to see a Chittum in person at the Ft. Myers FS show. Very interesting. I love the simplicity of this skiff in the picture.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Matts said:


> After testing both the LM tunnel and Mangrove, I'm leaning towards tunnel version but Stevie makes a hard sell for the non-tunnel. Hal did mention he could build the much lighter Mangrove/LM II with a tunnel. Someone tell me if I'm wrong and why that might be a bad idea?
> Cheers,
> Matt


Matt, there really should not be a reason they cant do a tunnel in the Mangrove/LMII. Rated for max 50hp.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

nativejax said:


> Matt, there really should not be a reason they cant do a tunnel in the Mangrove/LMII. Rated for max 50hp.


Hey Mattt,

The reason I felt one shouldn’t install a tunnel on a LM2 is that my full carbon LM2 has the slightest squat— this is with no tunnel, Atlas JP (4” setback weighing 25 pounds less than the Bob’s with a 6” setback on My previous LM1 tunnel). If you do a tunnel, the standard composite boat or part carbon package might balance better.


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

Matts said:


> Thanks Stevie. It sounds like the 1/2 carbon tunnel LM II with new 60 short shaft would be perfect for me.
> Cheers,
> Matt


#metoo


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Since writing this review 9 months ago, IMO, the best all around boat on the market for ocean running to shallow draft back country applications is the Mangrove 12 degree. I've run the 10% carbon Mangrove prototype boat in MX with long beachside runs, and recently trialed the 1/2 carbon and full carbon versions of the Mangrove 12 degree. My favorite is the full carbon version.


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

Well, I actually bought this LM II, non-tunnel from Stevie and like Hal told me, it really doesn't need the tunnel. I'm really biased towards having a tunnel (fished on for 16yrs) but I think this will outperform most tunnels on the market. I've had it out a few times and with a Yeti 35 with some weight, my 185# and my son at 110#, it drafts a very honest 5". You would think the full carbon and light hull (I think Hal said it's 350#) would absolutely beat you in rough water but that does not seem to be the case. It's an amazingly smooth ride and I think performs better without the tunnel. It fishes wide with it's 80+ inch top deck and is super stable. I fished Stevie's old LM I 1/2 carbon and the ride is nicer in the full carbon, as well as the draft shallower. I've only used it with the Powertech "speed" prop but it jumped up in 8" no problem, even without the Foreman Stevie just sent me. It's truly an anomaly in the skiff world and just floats in not much water at all. Thanks for breaking her in for me Stevie and for laying down some bread crumbs around those pesky reefs in St. Charles.
Cheers,
Matt[/QUOTE]


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## BaffinFlats (Apr 28, 2020)

Great information, thanks guys!


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