# Night Vision Again! (LED's)



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

So after a thread a long time ago I decided that I was going to go with red for the interior LED lights on my skiff. Well I've been reading more and more articles about how the standard of red for night vision is flawed, and more guys (pilots, military, long distance sailers.....) are switching to blue or green. 

So I bought a few red LED's a while back, but now I'm rethinking it.

Another issue I thought of is the aesthetics of my skiff. Function follows form of coarse, but I also don't want it to be too busy. So I'll have green transom lights (best for fishing), then red interior lights, then a blue live well light, plus the anchor light. it seems really busy to me, lol. 

So, I'm now thinking about going with green interior lights to match the transom lights. Or should I stick with red. Thoughts?

I posted a few articles below hitting on this.

http://stlplaces.com/night_vision_red_myth/

http://www.astromax.org/activities/members/kniffen.htm

https://www.itstactical.com/intelli...g-the-dark-how-to-preserve-your-night-vision/


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

I have blue lights on my skiff and I would say they are about equal for night blindness... Just make sure you don't have the lights on any lightly colored surfaces


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

I have done a lot of running at night...I mean a lot......
1.nav. lights only
2.miscellaneous lights.....gauges.......... red colors

night vision is very important so do not ruin it

now.......stationary, I like the light blue which takes a lot of the glare out compared to white but stays bright enough to take care of business


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I guess I should be more specific. These are going mostly under the gunnels, and I don't think I'll be running with them on. They are more for when we stop and start to fish. I may run with the green transom lights on, cause that's just cool, lol.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Just be advised that it's illegal to run with a green light on your transom (assuming it's visible outside the vessel).


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## GG34 (May 2, 2014)

The average Joe fisherman will not notice and difference between red and green with regards to night vision. Just go with what you like. It only matters to pilots and special operators.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

hipshot said:


> Just be advised that it's illegal to run with a green light on your transom (assuming it's visible outside the vessel).


I've already vetted this with FWC. As long as they are submerged they are legal. 

There is also a myth about blue lights in your interior are illegal. It's only illegal if they are flashing/strobes.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

But the biggest question is will the fish spook with green lights on the transom and red in the cockpit, or will they think it is Christmas and just jump in the boat looking for presents?


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

I have them under the gunnels


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mine are red


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

hipshot said:


> Just be advised that it's illegal to run with a green light on your transom (assuming it's visible outside the vessel).


They can’t keep the bank fishing trash from filling five gallon buckets with anything and everything they catch, they sure as hell won’t stop you for lights.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I’d do green with blue maybe. Much more chill. Red liable to piss you off.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

I stopped a lot of people for illegal lights when I worked in a boat. I'm sure I wasn't the only one doing it.


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## tomahawk (Mar 9, 2012)

I went with blue, mostly because I ran blue lights for a living for 30 years. No issues with night vision.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Supposedly you can distinguish the most hues in green - hence why night vision scopes are green


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## Boneheaded (Oct 4, 2017)

i keep my deck lights off unless theres a fish in the boat, im pulling up to the dock.


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## ReelFisher (Mar 14, 2017)

I have both green and red under gunnel lights on my current boat. Green for looking cool at the dock and red for actually being able to see. I've also had blue and white on previous boats. For me, the green is by far the worst for night vision...no way I would run or fish with it on. The red has been the best and still allows me to see the channel markers or fish on the dock lights. Blue and white are somewhat in the middle of the road for blindness.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

I am colorblind (severe red green problem), so I would go blue If I put some in my ride. I suck at navigating at night. Never have like it.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I've been reading that blue green is the best as long as it's not direct bright light. I think they mean blue green, not either blue or green So my skiff is light blue, if I install green it might pick up some of the blue hues.
Or I'll just stick with red, but I guess while red is good for overall night vision green is bether for detail. I'll mostly use it to help me tie Knotts and rigs, so maybe the green is still better.

I hate grey zones. I wish there was a definite answer.


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## Tailwaters (Apr 9, 2019)

As far as under water lights go, Green is for inshore and Blue is for offshore. If the lights are moving it does tend to spook the fish. An example of this would be having the underwater light on while drifting or running the trolling motor. Anchored up, NP. Above the water I'm a big fan of green lights. It doesn't mess up your night vision and much easier to see the detail of objects vs red. As a couple others have said, turn off your interior lights and make sure your GPS is dimed to it lowest setting when running. Otherwise you will be blind to everything outside of the boat.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Mine are blue but they are uncomfortably bright. The glare off the floor is really bad. They look cool though.


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## tailchaser16 (Sep 23, 2008)

I use my stern light of a headlamp for rigging


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## Captaindave (Apr 24, 2016)

Former offshore Captain and the less light the better when running at night. Navigation lights, preferably dim red instruments, as dim as practical with the GPS and that is all the lights needed.

I have blue LED’s under the gunnels of my skiff but they are only used when the boat is sitting still, I like the blue lights but that is really a personal preference.


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## ednaught (Apr 26, 2018)

I have blue in my skiff. I like them a lot, but they are a bit bright and can be blinding. It would be nice if there was a way to dim them.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

ednaught said:


> I have blue in my skiff. I like them a lot, but they are a bit bright and can be blinding. It would be nice if there was a way to dim them.


Oznium.com is where I get my stuff, and they have different kinds of dimmers. They are happy to answer questions through chat.


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## ednaught (Apr 26, 2018)

firecat1981 said:


> Oznium.com is where I get my stuff, and they have different kinds of dimmers. They are happy to answer questions through chat.


I'll definitely check it out! Thanks for the info


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

When shopping for under gunwale lights at BPS, I thought the blue was easier on my eyes than the red. I only turn them on when fishing. The lights are too bright to ride around at night when on.


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

Inland Navigation Rule 20 (b)

(b) The Rules concerning lights (§§ 83.20 through 83.31) shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.


As far as night vision goes, if your lights of any color are bright enough to light the interior of your boat as some of the pics in this thread have shown, it will take a bit for your night vision to return after you extinguish the lights. It has been a while since I served on boats, but our interior lights on the bridge were red and were as dim as possible. Radars were either green or yellowish. I went on a cruise last January. The bridge lights on that ship were red.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I have RGB under gunnel LED's in my Vantage. Blue or green is the way to go for best illumination with the least impact on night vision. Red is really easy on the eyes but you just can't see as much with it.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm a retired Army helicopter pilot who flew a lot of night missions with both FLIR and NVGs, as well as some unaided which is what is really applicable here. We really had to keep cockpit lighting to a minimum for a number of reasons. Bottom line is you want just enough light to see your instruments or whatever it is you need to see. Red or green works the best but we transitioned from red to green cockpit lighting about 15-20 years ago. If I remember correctly some of that had to do with the paper maps inside the cockpit but I'm not sure why on the instruments.

You want to keep the intensity low to preserve your night vision so make sure you set the chartplotter to night mode and turn the intensity down until you can no longer use it, then bring it back up just a little.

The problem I've seen with blue interior lights on boats is that the intensity is just too high. Do not use white light. 

I have interior lights and never use them. It screws up my night vision for several minutes after turning them off. A bright white light exposure would require up to 15-20 minutes to return to 100%.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

All these colored lights really mess with my head. I don't like cool or bright white either. I'm more of a very dimly lit soft white led light kinda guy that mimics a soft white incandescent light. I don't want look right at the light bulb because it interferes with your night vision. So a bulb on each side of the CC with a cover on the top so the light shines down on the cockpit floor or under the gunnels so I don't have to look straight into the light. I don't like those rope or string lights under the gunnels, because they throw off too much light. If I found one that only have a few low wattage LED's in the string (maybe 4 to 6 total) on each side, then that will work. All I really want is just enough light reflecting on the cockpit so you can see what's going on down in the cockpit area without effecting my night vision. I also have 1 very low wattage LED soft white light at the end of my ball cap, that is easy to turn on and off, just so I can see to re-tie, land a fish and remove the hook out of it. As far as the cockpit light goes, I'm usually turning it off when I fish and flipping it back on, if I land a fish and need to see what I'm doing. Otherwise, I'm just turning on my ballcap light on to see what I'm doing when it's needed only. But I don't fish with any lights on, except throwing on my stern light when a boat is coming by. But once it's passed, it goes back off. No bow lights either when I fish. This comes with decades of night fishing.

Anything more than that I see on other boats is just a bunch of unnecessary bling bling lights, just to look cool with, but is counter-productive when actually night fishing. To me, it's just like having LEDs under a pickup.... Why would I want that? Nobody cares about pics of lights in a boat, just about the results! 










Ted Haas


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok I spoke with Oznium.com, and they have a dimmer control I can use. It's water resistant, but not proof so it needs to be mounted in the console, which is fine cause it's going there anyway.

https://www.oznium.com/switches/rotary-led-dimmer

So I think I'm going to switch to green and add the controller if needed. The more I look at pics of boats with red, the more I'm not a fan.


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## rookie177 (Feb 4, 2019)

I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to chime in. I never thought my first post would be so relevant to my professional life. I'm an avid weekend warrior on the water, but from 9-5 I'm a Certified Human Factors Engineer. Human Factors engineering is a mix of psychology, physiology, and technology. Essentially, we design systems to ensure they are optimized for the user.

We have the ability to see in low-light conditions due to the Rhodopsin contained in our Rods (photoreceptors). The Rhodopsin is bleached by high light levels and renders our night-vision centric rods less effective. Due to the wavelength of red light (widest wavelength in the visible spectrum) it has the least impact on the Rhodopsin and maintains your ability to see in low-light conditions. However, with that said, lights within the red spectrum require a significant amount of intensity for our eyes to decipher details. The higher intensity of the red light bleaches the Rhodopsin and we're back to where we started. According to many years of physiology research, a dimmable, low intensity green light is best to decipher detail in low-light conditions because it triggers the cone system most efficiently and allows the user to see the most detail with the least loss of night-vision.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Green it is!


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Buddy of mine put an in-line dimmer on his strip leds. Bass boat ,no gunnels ,angled right back at him. Way too bright. Blinding


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Blue and green bother me at night. My brother had those on his visor light when we duck hunted and it drove me nuts. Red was the only one that truly doesn't interfere w/my night vision. I've read the studies that say it's all the same, but personally I prefer red. Maybe the blue/green options were too bright and it would have been better if they'd been dimmable.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

If it's on his visor/head, that means it was shining directly at you at times, which is a big no no for night time vision. This will be indirect light from under the gunnels, just a glow from below.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Thanks for posting these sources, I will be doing the same in the coming weeks. Will you have a switch to the dimmer?


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I dont run at night but I used to fish night tournaments. Just running lights are fine to see while anchored or TM use. If necessary carry a Q beam. Red and green i think are colrs of the Italian flag


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

rookie177 said:


> I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to chime in. I never thought my first post would be so relevant to my professional life. I'm an avid weekend warrior on the water, but from 9-5 I'm a Certified Human Factors Engineer. Human Factors engineering is a mix of psychology, physiology, and technology. Essentially, we design systems to ensure they are optimized for the user.
> 
> We have the ability to see in low-light conditions due to the Rhodopsin contained in our Rods (photoreceptors). The Rhodopsin is bleached by high light levels and renders our night-vision centric rods less effective. Due to the wavelength of red light (widest wavelength in the visible spectrum) it has the least impact on the Rhodopsin and maintains your ability to see in low-light conditions. However, with that said, lights within the red spectrum require a significant amount of intensity for our eyes to decipher details. The higher intensity of the red light bleaches the Rhodopsin and we're back to where we started. According to many years of physiology research, a dimmable, low intensity green light is best to decipher detail in low-light conditions because it triggers the cone system most efficiently and allows the user to see the most detail with the least loss of night-vision.


Yea, what he said!


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)




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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Somewhere out there, a retired CSM's head explodes every time someone mentions white light.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

rookie177 said:


> I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to chime in. I never thought my first post would be so relevant to my professional life. I'm an avid weekend warrior on the water, but from 9-5 I'm a Certified Human Factors Engineer. Human Factors engineering is a mix of psychology, physiology, and technology. Essentially, we design systems to ensure they are optimized for the user.
> 
> We have the ability to see in low-light conditions due to the Rhodopsin contained in our Rods (photoreceptors). The Rhodopsin is bleached by high light levels and renders our night-vision centric rods less effective. Due to the wavelength of red light (widest wavelength in the visible spectrum) it has the least impact on the Rhodopsin and maintains your ability to see in low-light conditions. However, with that said, lights within the red spectrum require a significant amount of intensity for our eyes to decipher details. The higher intensity of the red light bleaches the Rhodopsin and we're back to where we started. According to many years of physiology research, a dimmable, low intensity green light is best to decipher detail in low-light conditions because it triggers the cone system most efficiently and allows the user to see the most detail with the least loss of night-vision.



The nice thing about posting this info is that no one on this board is smart enough to argue with you ; )


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Water Bound said:


> Thanks for posting these sources, I will be doing the same in the coming weeks. Will you have a switch to the dimmer?


I'll run all the interior, livewell and hatch lights to a dash switch. With the 4 chip superflux LED's I'm using they draw so little that I might draw 1 amp with all of them.

If they are to bright I'll add the dimmer later on.


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## rookie177 (Feb 4, 2019)

Pole Position said:


> The nice thing about posting this info is that no one on this board is smart enough to argue with you ; )


Oh jeez, I was just trying to help out. There are plenty of people on this forum who are much smarter than me.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

rookie177 said:


> I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to chime in. I never thought my first post would be so relevant to my professional life. I'm an avid weekend warrior on the water, but from 9-5 I'm a Certified Human Factors Engineer. Human Factors engineering is a mix of psychology, physiology, and technology. Essentially, we design systems to ensure they are optimized for the user.
> 
> We have the ability to see in low-light conditions due to the Rhodopsin contained in our Rods (photoreceptors). The Rhodopsin is bleached by high light levels and renders our night-vision centric rods less effective. Due to the wavelength of red light (widest wavelength in the visible spectrum) it has the least impact on the Rhodopsin and maintains your ability to see in low-light conditions. However, with that said, lights within the red spectrum require a significant amount of intensity for our eyes to decipher details. The higher intensity of the red light bleaches the Rhodopsin and we're back to where we started. According to many years of physiology research, a dimmable, low intensity green light is best to decipher detail in low-light conditions because it triggers the cone system most efficiently and allows the user to see the most detail with the least loss of night-vision.


Ok, that's why the LED in my hat has a green light setting. But I quickly switch it to the soft dim white light setting, because when trying to use the green light, going back and forth from looking at things around me with the green light on, then looking at the lights I am fishing, then back again to looking with the green light, screws with my eyes. So therefore, I just use the dim soft white light and it doesn't mess with my eyes. I can see if I was in the woods or something, not looking at any other white light light. But I'm mostly fishing white lights, so......

Maybe I'll try it again with the green light, if I fish any of those underwater green lights.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Here is my Vantage with the RGB’s for comparison. The lights are on max bright in the pics. There is a lot of light from our neighbors houses so it doesn’t look that bright but on the water I turn them to low. Funny thing is that we only use them for booze cruising the canals. I don’t fish much at night and I turn them off if running at night. One really cool thing about my lights is that I can control each light individually on/off, brightness and color.


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## kamakuras (Feb 23, 2012)

hipshot said:


> Just be advised that it's illegal to run with a green light on your transom (assuming it's visible outside the vessel).


I have been stopped and complimented by FWC and Miami Dade Police Marine Patrol on how visible they made me running at night and they thought they were great?


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

kamakuras said:


> I have been stopped and complimented by FWC and Miami Dade Police Marine Patrol on how visible they made me running at night and they thought they were great?


Don't know what to tell you about that. It's still illegal.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

hipshot said:


> Don't know what to tell you about that. It's still illegal.


Only if they are above the waterline.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

jay.bush1434 said:


> View attachment 70654
> View attachment 70656
> View attachment 70658
> View attachment 70660
> Here is my Vantage with the RGB’s for comparison. The lights are on max bright in the pics. There is a lot of light from our neighbors houses so it doesn’t look that bright but on the water I turn them to low. Funny thing is that we only use them for booze cruising the canals. I don’t fish much at night and I turn them off if running at night. One really cool thing about my lights is that I can control each light individually on/off, brightness and color.


Thanks for posting these pics. This is a perfect comparison of colors, being it's all the same boat and light location. To me the green still looks the best.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

hipshot said:


> Don't know what to tell you about that. It's still illegal.


So are a shitload of people taking residence here but we are letting them in by the droves. No one seems to care, hell we are actually helping them and feeling sorry for them. 

Back to lights. I’ve had green and red. I currently have red and like it but prefer no light while running and a head lamp while night fishing. I leave them off until I need to tie a lure on or land a fish.


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

firecat1981 said:


> Only if they are above the waterline.


For what it's worth auxiliary lighting is heating up as a topic of discussion at the highest levels within enforcement agencies across the country. Again, here is what Rule 20 (b) says:

(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

dranrab said:


> For what it's worth auxiliary lighting is heating up as a topic of discussion at the highest levels within enforcement agencies across the country. Again, here is what Rule 20 (b) says:
> 
> (b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.


That is the exact rule exert that the FWC sent to me, and said as long as the transom lights are submerged then they do not break this rule.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

firecat1981 said:


> That is the exact rule exert that the FWC sent to me, and said as long as the transom lights are submerged then they do not break this rule.


Which is correct. For the sake of clarification, I will reiterate that I was referring to lights visible to other vessel traffic, not submerged lighting.


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