# Everglades National Park Boater Permit Required January 1



## BassFlats

Thanks for the heads-up.


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## Smackdaddy53

I hope this goes into affect along the entire gulf coast. It might thin out some of the idiots.


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## MariettaMike

DBStoots said:


> Starting January 1, boaters in the Everglades National Park will be required to have a valid Boater Permit. This can be obtained only after taking an online course and passing an assessment with a score of 80 or higher. The Permit must be presented as a paper copy or saved as an image accessible on an electronic device if requested by a law enforcement officer. The cost is $50. You can save yourself some money by taking the course and assessment prior to January 1. Here's a link to the course: http://provalenslearning.com/national-park-service/everglades-boater-education-course


DONE!

Thanks @DBStoots for the heads up.


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## Vertigo

Unfortunately, there's no legislation or educational requirements that will "thin out" idiots. Want proof? How many licensed idiots did you encounter last time you drove your car any significant distance?

The requirement to have a permit and pass a test sounds like a wonderful idea, but it's "feel good" legislation that actually distracts from real solutions to real problems. If the goal is responsible behavior in ENP, the only way to achieve it is by strict enforcement of rules and severe penalties for violations. Of course, requiring a permit makes money, while hiring more rangers costs money.


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## anytide

done.


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## Guest

Just did it. Took 10 minutes and passed first attempt (got confused by the wording of the idle speed question. Otherwise would've got 100%)


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## Guest

Question - who will be enforcing this? 

I have never been stopped by a ranger on the water in the park. Only been approached at ramp by rangers asking about catch. I've been stopped by fwc and Collier county deputy but not in the park.

Will they ask to see it at the gate if boat is in tow? I'm usually there early/late and gate isn’t manned. Will they check when reserving camping spot in person?


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## Webeboatin

Thanks for posting this


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## bonehead

Thanks a lot, DB!! 

I doubt it will "thin out" idiots tho...


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## anytide

Tarpon Nole said:


> Question - who will be enforcing this?
> 
> I have never been stopped by a ranger on the water in the park. Only been approached at ramp by rangers asking about catch. I've been stopped by fwc and Collier county deputy but not in the park.
> 
> Will they ask to see it at the gate if boat is in tow? I'm usually there early/late and gate isn’t manned. Will they check when reserving camping spot in person?


its more about collecting than enforcing...
rangers are few and travel between choko/ mingo , but when the fwc/ local leo get the nod to enforce this then the $ starts flowin'...... yes its always easier to get you at the ramp.
there will be classes and vestibules set up for you at the gate to participate.
$50.00 / head..... fines could be more? who knows.


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## BassFlats

Just took it and passed. Its good for a year. What I thought it said was the test was to continue to be free , but there is a launch fee 25$ for a weekly use and 50$ for a yearly launch fee. But i could be wrong.


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## Guest

anytide said:


> its more about collecting than enforcing...
> rangers are few and travel between choko/ mingo , but when the fwc/ local leo get the nod to enforce this then the $ starts flowin'...... yes its always easier to get you at the ramp.
> there will be classes and vestibules set up for you at the gate to participate.
> $50.00 / head..... fines could be more? who knows.


I have never seen FWC/local police in the park. How can they enforce it outside the park ?


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## anytide

they go in the park....
other agencies ,,, if the money is right theyll be there and they can sell it at the gate... its more about collecting.

outside boat traffic coming in has to be policed by ?
there will be more than a "ranger" enforcing this....

sorry for the edits..... eggnog


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## anytide

with the money i/ we spend to fish/ hunt etc places like this ... i dont care if its $100.00 to get in, to me it mean less yums yums on the water and burning me out there..


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## Half Shell

Done, glad I saw this today and saved $50


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## Surffshr

This is interesting to me. Years ago when Padre Island National Seashore proposed changing the down island speed limit from 25 to 15 mph during turtle nesting season, I suggested that instead they restrict all traffic and require similar “training”. My idea being this would take the thrill craft folks out of the equation and still allow reasonable access. They said too expensive to do and dropped it to 15 with no reason to back it up. 60 miles of beach @ 15 MPH...

Anyhow, NPS has a great task with little funding and I support their efforts to preserve the parks and keep PUBLIC ACCESS. Kinda hard to do both, but I’d be happy to pay them more to access the park.


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## ranno

DBStoots said:


> Starting January 1, boaters in the Everglades National Park will be required to have a valid Boater Permit. This can be obtained only after taking an online course and passing an assessment with a score of 80 or higher. The Permit must be presented as a paper copy or saved as an image accessible on an electronic device if requested by a law enforcement officer. The cost is $50. You can save yourself some money by taking the course and assessment prior to January 1. Here's a link to the course: http://provalenslearning.com/national-park-service/everglades-boater-education-course


Thank you very much for the heads up !


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## lemaymiami

No, it will not be enforced by outside agencies since the permit is not a law... Yes, it will be lightly enforced- unless you’re on the Chokoloskee side of the Park... The only possible exception will be when Biscayne National Park rangers are requested to assist (mostly at the front gate...).

As you can guess the Park is trying to “enhance revenues”while also (hopefully) changing behavior...

Now if they’ll just bring their facilities back up to some minimal standard (still no fish cutting table down at Flamingo-not even a temporary one, almost 18 months after Irma...).

And for those not aware... the Park’s western boundary is pretty much Chokoloskee....


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## Guest

lemaymiami said:


> No, it will not be enforced by outside agencies since the permit is not a law... Yes, it will be lightly enforced- unless you’re on the Chokoloskee side of the Park... The only possible exception will be when Biscayne National Park rangers are requested to assist (mostly at the front gate...).
> 
> As you can guess the Park is trying to “enhance revenues”while also (hopefully) changing behavior...
> 
> Now if they’ll just bring their facilities back up to some minimal standard (still no fish cutting table down at Flamingo-not even a temporary one, almost 18 months after Irma...).
> 
> And for those not aware... the Park’s western boundary is pretty much Chokoloskee....


Will they ask to see it if you have a boat in tow at the gate? Or when reserving a campsite ?


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## K3anderson

Theft


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## Padre

Thanks for this. It is getting hard to keep up with everything you have to have to go into the park. I just took the test on line and got my permit. But one thing I don't understand is that it is only good for a year. So does that mean I have to take the test again next year?


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## FlyBy

Done. Thanks!


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## lemaymiami

Posted what I could about the Park... since I'm a guide I'm exempt (I hope...) but they still stuck me $550 for my 2019 permit - and next year they say it's going up to $800... per year for each guide - and you know what we get for our money? don't ask... I've been a permitted guide there now for 23 years -and they only return my phone calls about half the time.... and whenever there's a shutdown or something similar - do they send an email... Nope. I have to scrounge around looking for info like everyone else... Wish it weren't so. It's been almost 18 months since the hurricane damaged a lot of the facilities at Flamingo - and they still haven't put up even a temporary fish cleaning table there... By comparison kenny at Chokoloskee had his up one week after the storm - I know because I used it...

Because I'm also a retired cop (and living proof that there's life after a career on the street...) I do know a bit about jurisdictions and so forth but for all specifics you're going to have to ask the Park - Here's a good starting point...

https://www.nps.gov/ever/index.htm

Hope this helps


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## cusnooking

Done Thanks!


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## krash

Lemay, not to change the subject or hi-jaks the thread but curiosity.... Is the Guide permit a license/permet to do business as a guide in the park or is that the yearly fee that allows you to drive in with clients and launch fish for the year ?
And do the guides that operate out of the Keys and come in by boat for utilize the park area also have to get the same or similar permit ?

I did take the course and have permit now.. but I feel bad for the older couple with only 1 pfd and get a ticket.


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## jddwahoo

Thanks for posting


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## Padre

krash said:


> Lemay, not to change the subject or hi-jaks the thread but curiosity.... Is the Guide permit a license/permet to do business as a guide in the park or is that the yearly fee that allows you to drive in with clients and launch fish for the year ?
> And do the guides that operate out of the Keys and come in by boat for utilize the park area also have to get the same or similar permit ?
> 
> I did take the course and have permit now.. but I feel bad for the older couple with only 1 pfd and get a ticket.


Hilarious. Nicely done.


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## lemaymiami

All of the above.... and yes any guide that wants to fish his or her anglers in the Park is supposed to have a permit, no matter where they launch from.

We’re also supposed to file daily fish trip tickets, monthly activity reports, and annual financial reports...


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## Backcountry 16

Sadly this is a money grab and not one cent will go back into the park. Don't we already pay taxes to take care of our nation parks I personally think that it's our government stealing money again. Rant over.


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## Padre

Backcountry 16 said:


> Sadly this is a money grab and not one cent will go back into the park. Don't we already pay taxes to take care of our nation parks I personally think that it's our government stealing money again. Rant over.


You got that right. The state of Florida already requires people under a certain age to have a safe boating class. Now we have to have it for the ENP. Plus, I understand that they now will have entrance fees, plus you pay for camping permits. It is getting hard to remember what you have to have to go in there.


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## Backcountry 16

I guess they don't want my money I can't get to the test just downloaded the website but no test.


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## DBStoots

Backcountry 16 said:


> I guess they don't want my money I can't get to the test just downloaded the website but no test.


As I recall, I had to go back to the first page after reviewing everything to click on a link to take the assessment.


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## Backcountry 16

DBStoots said:


> As I recall, I had to go back to the first page after reviewing everything to click on a link to take the assessment.


Thanks DB I'm taking it but doing so in protest as I think it's a joke. Fyi people get the paper copy. No cell service in some of the park means no permit on your phone.


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## Padre

Backcountry 16 said:


> Thanks DB I'm taking it but doing so in protest as I think it's a joke. Fyi people get the paper copy. No cell service in some of the park means no permit on your phone.


I printed it out and then took a picture of it with my phone so it would be on my phone


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## Steve_Mevers

lemaymiami said:


> No, it will not be enforced by outside agencies since the permit is not a law... Yes, it will be lightly enforced- unless you’re on the Chokoloskee side of the Park... The only possible exception will be when Biscayne National Park rangers are requested to assist (mostly at the front gate...).
> 
> As you can guess the Park is trying to “enhance revenues”while also (hopefully) changing behavior...
> 
> Now if they’ll just bring their facilities back up to some minimal standard (still no fish cutting table down at Flamingo-not even a temporary one, almost 18 months after Irma...).
> 
> And for those not aware... the Park’s western boundary is pretty much Chokoloskee....


Bob is right on the enforcement, FWC and Sheriff deputies will not have the authority to enforce a park rule.


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## DBStoots

Padre said:


> I printed it out and then took a picture of it with my phone so it would be on my phone


 Yep, I did the same.


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## Backcountry 16

Padre said:


> You got that right. The state of Florida already requires people under a certain age to have a safe boating class. Now we have to have it for the ENP. Plus, I understand that they now will have entrance fees, plus you pay for camping permits. It is getting hard to remember what you have to have to go in there.


I wonder what the camping permits will cost I always camp the 10 k islands instead your outside the park and can stay where ever you want as long as you want. I also don't like someone coming up in my camp even if he is a ranger that's a no no where I am from. I have only been stopped by one ranger in all my years of fishing inside the park and that was off Islamorada in the early 2000's.


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## SC Bill

Got mine this morning...
Still free.


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## SC Bill

lemaymiami said:


> No, it will not be enforced by outside agencies since the permit is not a law... Yes, it will be lightly enforced- unless you’re on the Chokoloskee side of the Park... The only possible exception will be when Biscayne National Park rangers are requested to assist (mostly at the front gate...).
> 
> As you can guess the Park is trying to “enhance revenues”while also (hopefully) changing behavior...
> 
> Now if they’ll just bring their facilities back up to some minimal standard (still no fish cutting table down at Flamingo-not even a temporary one, almost 18 months after Irma...).
> 
> And for those not aware... the Park’s western boundary is pretty much Chokoloskee....


Bob...

In so-far-as enforcement...I don't think your assumption is correct.
Commissioned National Park Rangers (LEOs), Commissioned FWC wardens (LEOs) and USCG (vessel commanding officer) have extra-territorial jurisdiction when state and federal boundaries overlap. LEOs with extra-territorial jurisdiction can enforce rules and regulations if within their primary lawful jurisdiction (ie., FWC warden in the ENP within the state of Florida). Generally, the common practice for an LEO exercising extra-territorial jurisdiction, is to detain a violator until a LEO with direct jurisdiction can effect an arrest or issue a citation, yet, such is not required.

In regards to how the boater permit will be enforced, only time will tell. But, I agree, sure seems like not much more than a revenue generator.


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## K3anderson

It will be $120 in 5 years. Its always incremental.


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## iMacattack

Ok, took the assessment and Ace'd it. Now I have the file on my iPhone. Help me understand this. This file on my phone is my Park Boater Permit right? No more ramp fee? So just need to pay to enter the park? Or get an annual pass?


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## Steve_Mevers

SC Bill said:


> Bob...
> 
> In so-far-as enforcement...I don't think your assumption is correct.
> Commissioned National Park Rangers (LEOs), Commissioned FWC wardens (LEOs) and USCG (vessel commanding officer) have extra-territorial jurisdiction when state and federal boundaries overlap. LEOs with extra-territorial jurisdiction can enforce rules and regulations if within their primary lawful jurisdiction (ie., FWC warden in the ENP within the state of Florida). Generally, the common practice for an LEO exercising extra-territorial jurisdiction, is to detain a violator until a LEO with direct jurisdiction can effect an arrest or issue a citation, yet, such is not required.
> 
> In regards to how the boater permit will be enforced, only time will tell. But, I agree, sure seems like not much more than a revenue generator.


FWC officers are deputized US Fish and Wildlife officers, and NOAA Agents, they are not deputized as Federal Park Rangers in the Everglades National Park.


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## BassFlats

iMacattack said:


> Ok, took the assessment and Ace'd it. Now I have the file on my iPhone. Help me understand this. This file on my phone is my Park Boater Permit right? No more ramp fee? So just need to pay to enter the park? Or get an annual pass?


 The boating permit allows you to use your boat in the park. I believe there is a ramp fee on top of that.


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## iMacattack

From the website



> Beginning in 2019, the Boater Permit fee for operating a motorboat in the park will be $50 for annual and $25 for one-week permits. As a reminder, this cost will be offset for many boaters with the elimination of the Flamingo launch fees ($60 annual and $5 daily).


Thus my question.


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## BassFlats

I guess we'll find out when the rangers go back to work.


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## Carivera

I took the course but can’t find the test.


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## SC Bill

Steve_Mevers said:


> FWC officers are deputized US Fish and Wildlife officers, and NOAA Agents, they are not deputized as Federal Park Rangers in the Everglades National Park.


Steve...

They are not deputized. 

Deputizing individuals is an antiquated legal term for the temporary assignment of law enforcement duties to a citizen without a law enforcement commission. Deputized individuals have very limit scope of authority and must be directly supervised by a commissioned LEO. Deputized citizens are very rarely used today due to liability and potential violation of a suspect/defendant's Constitutional rights.

Further, a FWC officer does not require any extra authority to operate within the state (including ENP) unless access to the area is restricted by federal mandate, ie., Cape Kennedy, McDill AFB, etc. Any agency can claim extraterritorial authority, but, most often agreements are signed between agencies to ensure an orderly operation.

NPS has extraterritorial jurisdictional agreements with many local and state LE agencies due to NPS's very limited commissioned LEO manpower. This allows FWC officer's to enforce federal rules, regulations and law pertaining to ENP. Yet, if a federal violation occurs, the FWC officer will often detain the violator until a commissioned NPS Ranger/LEO arrives on-scene. Only a very small percentage of Rangers at any given park are commissioned LEOs.

So, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you are asked for your ENP Boater's Permit along with the boat's registration if stopped by an FWC officer within the ENP boundaries.


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## Guest

SC Bill said:


> Steve...
> 
> They are not deputized.
> 
> Deputizing individuals is an antiquated legal term for the temporary assignment of law enforcement duties to a citizen without a law enforcement commission. Deputized individuals have very limit scope of authority and must be directly supervised by a commissioned LEO. Deputized citizens are very rarely used today due to liability and potential violation of a suspect/defendant's Constitutional rights.
> 
> Further, a FWC officer does not require any extra authority to operate within the state (including ENP) unless access to the area is restricted by federal mandate, ie., Cape Kennedy, McDill AFB, etc. Any agency can claim extraterritorial authority, but, most often agreements are signed between agencies to ensure an orderly operation.
> 
> NPS has extraterritorial jurisdictional agreements with many local and state LE agencies due to NPS's very limited commissioned LEO manpower. This allows FWC officer's to enforce federal rules, regulations and law pertaining to ENP. Yet, if a federal violation occurs, the FWC officer will often detain the violator until a commissioned NPS Ranger/LEO arrives on-scene. Only a very small percentage of Rangers at any given park are commissioned LEOs.
> 
> So, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you are asked for your ENP Boater's Permit along with the boat's registration if stopped by an FWC officer within the ENP boundaries.


I was told by an FWC officer that they do not enter the park


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## SC Bill

Tarpon Nole said:


> I was told by an FWC officer that they do not enter the park


Interesting, I was told differently by the ENP Superintendent Ramos. My brother-in-law (retired Super of a NP) were down there fishing. We did a drop-in with Super Ramos.

I was told NPS Rangers, US FWS Special Agents, and FWC officers routinely patrol the coastal waters in Florida Bay and inshore areas within the Park's boundaries.

In 2016, we were stopped by a FWC officer inshore in the Ten thousands Islands area. He did a through check of my docs and onboard equipment.

In late 90s, when I lived in MIA, I was checked several times by FWC officers within the Park.

I've never been stopped by an NPS Ranger in the ENP.

I live near and fish within the Cape Romain National Wildlife Refuge (SC). I get stopped several times a month within the Refuge by both SC DNR officers and US FWS Special Agents. More often in the winter by the latter due to waterfowl season. You can't hunt within the 47,000 acres of the Refuge and the Feds are here in force during waterfowl season.


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## Guest

SC Bill said:


> Interesting, I was told differently by the ENP Superintendent Ramos. My brother-in-law (retired Super of Great Smokey Mountains NP) and I were down there fishing. We did a drop-in with Super Ramos.
> 
> I was told NPS Rangers, US FWS Special Agents, and FWC officers routinely patrol the coastal waters in Florida Bay and inshore areas within the Park's boundaries.
> 
> In 2016, we were stopped by a FWC officer inshore in the Ten thousands Islands area. He did a through check of my docs and onboard equipment.
> 
> In late 90s, when I lived in MIA, I was checked several times by FWC officers within the Park.


I guess they could be contracted out like you say. I was at the ramp in Chok in winter of 2017 and an FWC officer pulled up in his truck and checked us out. I told him about a fish kill at mouth of Lostman’s and he said he’d report it and someone form the NP would have to go check it out as they do not patrol inside the park. 

Also, I’ve seen many FWC and Collier County Sherifs Boats in 10,000 islands, but that is not inside park boundaries


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## SC Bill

Tarpon Nole said:


> Also, I’ve seen many FWC and Collier County Sherifs Boats in 10,000 islands, but that is not inside park boundaries


Ten Thousand Islands National Wildlife Refuge is outside the park, but, I believe the area known as Ten Thousand Islands is within the ENP.


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## Guest

SC Bill said:


> Ten Thousand Islands National Wildlife Refuge is outside the park, but, I believe the area know as Ten Thousand Islands is within the ENP.


I grew up calling 10000 islands Marco/goodland over to the boundary. Everything inside the boundary is the “park”


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## SC Bill

Tarpon Nole said:


> I grew up calling 10000 islands Marco/goodland over to the boundary. Everything inside the boundary is the “park”


GOTCHA!


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## nautilott

I must have missed the part where the permit is only good for a year...is this correct?


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## Guest

nautilott said:


> I must have missed the part where the permit is only good for a year...is this correct?


Lol. I think we are all lost on pretty much everything going on with this


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## BassFlats

nautilott said:


> I must have missed the part where the permit is only good for a year...is this correct?


 Yes, only good for a year. Did anyone take the test this year? Did you have to pay for it?


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## nautilott

BassFlats said:


> Yes, only good for a year. Did anyone take the test this year? Did you have to pay for it?


SC Bill (post#39) said he took it today...still free.


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## BassFlats

Thanks. Maybe the government can clear up all of this confusion.


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## Padre

BassFlats said:


> Thanks. Maybe the government can clear up all of this confusion.


Because that is what the government is good at...clearing up the confusion they created.


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## SC Bill

Carivera said:


> I took the course but can’t find the test.


The educational web site is not very intuitive.

After finishing the course, click on "Assessment" (I think that's what it was called). It will take you to the test.

If you pass the test, "Assessment", the web site will not take you to your permit. You have to click on the next tab.

A horribly designed web site IMO. But, then what should one expect but confusion in navigating a web site for the government.


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## BassFlats

The government figures that if you can navigate their website, you can navigate the ENP.


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## Carivera

I figured it out around 3 this morning


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## Steve_Mevers

SC Bill said:


> Steve...
> 
> They are not deputized.
> 
> Deputizing individuals is an antiquated legal term for the temporary assignment of law enforcement duties to a citizen without a law enforcement commission. Deputized individuals have very limit scope of authority and must be directly supervised by a commissioned LEO. Deputized citizens are very rarely used today due to liability and potential violation of a suspect/defendant's Constitutional rights.
> 
> Further, a FWC officer does not require any extra authority to operate within the state (including ENP) unless access to the area is restricted by federal mandate, ie., Cape Kennedy, McDill AFB, etc. Any agency can claim extraterritorial authority, but, most often agreements are signed between agencies to ensure an orderly operation.
> 
> NPS has extraterritorial jurisdictional agreements with many local and state LE agencies due to NPS's very limited commissioned LEO manpower. This allows FWC officer's to enforce federal rules, regulations and law pertaining to ENP. Yet, if a federal violation occurs, the FWC officer will often detain the violator until a commissioned NPS Ranger/LEO arrives on-scene. Only a very small percentage of Rangers at any given park are commissioned LEOs.
> 
> So, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you are asked for your ENP Boater's Permit along with the boat's registration if stopped by an FWC officer within the ENP boundaries.


The FWC without question has jurisdiction to patrol and enforce state law (and certain Federal fishery and wildlife laws) in the ENP. They have agreements and are sworn officers with US Fish and Wildlife and NOAA. Unless there has been a recent change, the FWC does not have a memorandum of understanding with the ENP to enforce their park rules. If an FWC Officer discovers a serious violation involving a criminal offense they will notify their federal partners and may detain a person. Lacking an agreement with ENP, I would be very surprised if a FWC officer would even ask to see a boaters ENP Boaters Permit because they have no authority to enforce it and they would certainly not detain a person for ENP LE for such a minor violation of a park rule. 

But on a positive note I did pass my quiz and I have my ENP permit for this weekend's trip!


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## Backcountry 16

SC Bill said:


> Steve...
> 
> They are not deputized.
> 
> Deputizing individuals is an antiquated legal term for the temporary assignment of law enforcement duties to a citizen without a law enforcement commission. Deputized individuals have very limit scope of authority and must be directly supervised by a commissioned LEO. Deputized citizens are very rarely used today due to liability and potential violation of a suspect/defendant's Constitutional rights.
> 
> Further, a FWC officer does not require any extra authority to operate within the state (including ENP) unless access to the area is restricted by federal mandate, ie., Cape Kennedy, McDill AFB, etc. Any agency can claim extraterritorial authority, but, most often agreements are signed between agencies to ensure an orderly operation.
> 
> NPS has extraterritorial jurisdictional agreements with many local and state LE agencies due to NPS's very limited commissioned LEO manpower. This allows FWC officer's to enforce federal rules, regulations and law pertaining to ENP. Yet, if a federal violation occurs, the FWC officer will often detain the violator until a commissioned NPS Ranger/LEO arrives on-scene. Only a very small percentage of Rangers at any given park are commissioned LEOs.
> 
> So, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you are asked for your ENP Boater's Permit along with the boat's registration if stopped by an FWC officer within the ENP boundaries.


Steve is a former Fwc officer so he probably knows what he's talking about. On a side note doesn't any navigable water in Florida belong to the public? So why should you need a permit to navigate on a State owned waterway in understand it's a park but they don't own the water we do. I took my test but I am going to be fighting this next year as this is unconstutional.


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## Backcountry 16

SC Bill said:


> Ten Thousand Islands National Wildlife Refuge is outside the park, but, I believe the area known as Ten Thousand Islands is within the ENP.


Only the southern half of the 10 k islands is inside the park the northern section is outside the park that's where I camp outside of the park.


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## SC Bill

Steve_Mevers said:


> The FWC without question has jurisdiction to patrol and enforce state law (and certain Federal fishery and wildlife laws) in the ENP. They have agreements and are sworn officers with US Fish and Wildlife and NOAA. Unless there has been a recent change, the FWC does not have a memorandum of understanding with the ENP to enforce their park rules. If an FWC Officer discovers a serious violation involving a criminal offense they will notify their federal partners and may detain a person. Lacking an agreement with ENP, I would be very surprised if a FWC officer would even ask to see a boaters ENP Boaters Permit because they have no authority to enforce it and they would certainly not detain a person for ENP LE for such a minor violation of a park rule.
> 
> But on a positive note I did pass my quiz and I have my ENP permit for this weekend's trip!



The "agreements" you write about are known as "Mutual Aid Agreements and Assistance Agreements". They are formal agreements entered between agencies (local, state and federal) to facilitate a quick emergency response. Such response can ensure timely deployment of personnel and equipment. These formal agreements must be entered into by local and state agencies due to insurance policies issued to the jurisdiction. These agreements are a "plan of action" and not legal agreements pertaining to extraterritorial jurisdiction.

SCOTUS has affirmed extraterritorial authority. The only limitation to such is by a local or state jurisdiction employing sworn/commissioned LEOs. There are many strict local jurisdictions (in other states, NJ comes to mind first) that do not allow LEOs extraterritorial jurisdiction/authority; these LEOs must stop at the boundary of jurisdiction. 

Florida Statute Title XXXI Chapter 440.094, which has been affirmed Constitutional by the Florida Supreme Court and does not infringe upon Federal statute, expressly grants extraterritorial authority to local and state sworn/commissioned LEOs.

As such, any local or state sworn/commissioned LEO can exercise their lawful authority within the legal boundaries of Florida; including ENP. Further, the Florida Supreme Court has affirmed that such authority extends beyond the boundaries of Florida if a chase to apprehend a suspect begins in Florida and ends up in the jurisdiction of another state when a extraterritorial reciprocity agreement exists between Florida and the other state(s).

Steve, I completely agree with your assessment, and as I posted earlier, if an LEO exercises extraterritorial authority, it will likely be for a serious violation. And, that LEO will in all probability detain the violator until an LEO with direct jurisdictional authority arrives to facilitate the arrest. Doing so reduces a lot of paperwork and eliminates legal challenges surrounding the arrest by a defense attorney. 

When I held a restricted federal commission, we always detained a suspect for local or state authorities to make the arrest. Unrestricted federally sworn LEOs have the most broad ranging authority within the federal, state, local and territorial structure. Further, federal LEOs are not hamstrung with extraterritorial issues, except when local and state LEOs are prevented from assisting (which is currently a BIG can of worms in the most populous state).

Good to read you're GTG with your permit. Don't want a former FWC Officer getting violated! ;-)

Edited to add text add below:
And, I concur that local and state officials are not required to enforce ENP, and for that matter, any NPS, Forest Service or BLM rules and regulations. Rules and regulations specific to these agencies are written by those agencies and while enforceable, are not laws. Rules and regulations are written after the legislative process and a bill signed into law. As such, unless a serious violation of local, state or federal law occurs, most LEOs with the ability to exercise extraterritorial authority, will not arrest or cite a suspect for violation of a rule or regulation outside their direct purview.

I highly doubt if a FWC officer approaches you while fishing in ENP, will ask you for your ENP Permit. However, the officer is fully entitled to do so and may issue a citation if you fail to produce your boater permit. My son was issued a speeding ticket by a county deputy sheriff on a Yellowstone NP gravel road; well inside the NP boundaries. The citation was written on State of Wyoming citation stock with the appearance location listed as US District Court in Mammoth, WY. We stopped by the justice center and paid the fine and continued on.


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## Steve_Mevers

I recently retired from the FWC after 30 years of service and served as supervisor in both Collier and Lee County since 1992. I am very familar with our agreements and the limitations imposed with our local federal partners. I will again state that a state officer cannot issue a citation for a ENP rule, and just leave it at that. I would rather discuss what’s biting in the park than boater permits. Heading down to do some fishing tomorrow, looks like the winds are going to finally lay down.


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## DBStoots

@Steve_Mevers it was honking out of the NW today! How do the weathermen keep their jobs? We fished within a couple of mile of Chokoloskee all day and did really well. Hope you did!


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## Steve_Mevers

Heading down this morning, we are going to fish south of Goodland, hope the wind lays down.


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## DBStoots

Steve_Mevers said:


> Heading down this morning, we are going to fish south of Goodland, hope the wind lays down.


Looks like it will be one of those post-front, blue bird sky kind of days! Tight lines!


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## Mangrove Mike

I passed the test where do I get the permit? Also has the shutdown affected the ability to get these or camping permits?


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## lemaymiami

All of that sort of stuff will have to wait until the Park is back up and running... In the meantime the gate's wide open and so are the ramps (and the concessionaire is going full steam (renting paddlecraft and small skiffs, houseboats, etc.). The tour boats are running every day, the marina store is open - and so are the gas pumps at Flamingo... Every campsite is open when I come by so it's pretty much catch as catch can until the shutdown clears... 

Unlike all the doom and gloom stories the media provides - the Park is doing just fine thank you - without any sign of troubles at all.... Gee you suppose the Park personnel aren't needed? Get in trouble out on the water and as usual - it's the Coast Guard you'll be calling...


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## nautilott

" Gee you suppose the Park personnel aren't needed"?

I think your opinion of the general public's ability for good stewardship of our Parks is much higher than mine...especially when the threat of any consequences of their actions are permanently removed. Just say'n.


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## lemaymiami

that's okay -my kids don't listen to me either....


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## Mangrove Mike

lemaymiami said:


> All of that sort of stuff will have to wait until the Park is back up and running... In the meantime the gate's wide open and so are the ramps (and the concessionaire is going full steam (renting paddlecraft and small skiffs, houseboats, etc.). The tour boats are running every day, the marina store is open - and so are the gas pumps at Flamingo... Every campsite is open when I come by so it's pretty much catch as catch can until the shutdown clears...
> 
> Unlike all the doom and gloom stories the media provides - the Park is doing just fine thank you - without any sign of troubles at all.... Gee you suppose the Park personnel aren't needed? Get in trouble out on the water and as usual - it's the Coast Guard you'll be calling...





lemaymiami said:


> All of that sort of stuff will have to wait until the Park is back up and running... In the meantime the gate's wide open and so are the ramps (and the concessionaire is going full steam (renting paddlecraft and small skiffs, houseboats, etc.). The tour boats are running every day, the marina store is open - and so are the gas pumps at Flamingo... Every campsite is open when I come by so it's pretty much catch as catch can until the shutdown clears...
> 
> Unlike all the doom and gloom stories the media provides - the Park is doing just fine thank you - without any sign of troubles at all.... Gee you suppose the Park personnel aren't needed? Get in trouble out on the water and as usual - it's the Coast Guard you'll be calling...


So if I wanna camp on a Chickee just go for it because I couldn’t get a permit because they are closed anyway? Fine with me! Been a fan of your fly tying for many years thanks for the great patterns!


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## Dustin2785

I believe they are still collecting money and issuing permits for camping in the park. All the outer islands have been loaded with kayakers and canoes since Christmas. And if you get in trouble in the park right now the rangers still have one boat in the water they can come out on but more than likely it’s going to be FWC and the fire department here in Everglades that’s going to come get you.


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## Mangrove Mike

They are closed for the shutdown I went there. There is a box outside where you fill out a form for a self permit, no fees are collected. You can see where other people are staying so there is no mess supposedly but you are supposed to have the self permit.


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## BassFlats

A Captain on another website has been writing this for weeks. Any truth to it?


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## manny2376

BassFlats said:


> A Captain on another website has been writing this for weeks. Any truth to it?
> View attachment 57220


No... that’s ridiculous


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## Flatbroke426

Tarpon Nole said:


> Question - who will be enforcing this?
> 
> I have never been stopped by a ranger on the water in the park. Only been approached at ramp by rangers asking about catch. I've been stopped by fwc and Collier county deputy but not in the park.
> 
> Will they ask to see it at the gate if boat is in tow? I'm usually there early/late and gate isn’t manned. Will they check when reserving camping spot in person?[/QUOT. I have been blared so many times on the water in the park. Don’t chance it


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## zthomas

FWIW, I called the Gulf Coast Visitor Center last week (end of February 2019) before a trip and asked specifically whether the boater permit had been implemented yet. I was told it had not.

When I went to pick up my backcountry camping permit, I indicated clearly on the form that I was in a powerboat. They issued the permit and didn't say a word about a boater permit, safety course, or anything related.


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## bobber

I went ahead and got the permit last week because hey, it's still free.
And if you think the gubbimint ain't gonna start enforcing this in the near future I gotta ask what country you grew up in. 
The course,exam and permit are still free, get it now or pay the $50 down the road.


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## zthomas

Didn't mean to suggest it wouldn't be implemented in the future — just that as of last week it wasn't.


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## Tailer

I'm not sure what all of the complaining is about. It looks like this is a genuine attempt to educate end users rather than a money-grab from the Park Service. I see enough idiotic behavior in the Park each year, so it's nice to see at least an attempt to educate the public.


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## EasternGlow

I camped in Flamingo this past weekend, they didn't ask for the permit while getting my camping permit and we got stopped on the water by two rangers and they asked for everything but the permit. 

Funny thing- while they were checking our fish, we had four legal pompano in the cooler. At first he said they were permit and came up with some BS about the forehead being different. After assuring him they were pompano, he looked at his laminated sheets and told me they had to be 24" to the tail. I told him that would probably be a world record pompano. He was looking at African Pompano. Nice guys but definitely did not know their fish haha.


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## lemaymiami

Rangers rotate throughout the National Park system.. They have to stay at a given assignment for a minimum time (I've heard both 15 and 18 months before they can bid to go somewhere else -but don't have any facts about how long, before they can apply to transfer...). As you can guess it's a rare young'un that wants to spend their years in the swamp, so the turnover is pretty constant until they gain rank or get tied down by family obligations...

True story... over on the Flamingo side we had a young and pretty ranger - female type... After a few months I struck up a conversation and asked her where her last duty station had been... She lit up with enthusiasm and said that she'd been assigned to "Liberty Bell National Park" before coming to the 'glades... That place is downtown Philadelphia... so you can guess how much she knew about the Park.... Needless to say she's long gone....

On the Flamingo side of things rangers have the only road in the Park - so that's where you'll find them running radar on a road that seldom sees an accident (all 38 miles of it)... and of course I rarely ever see a ranger in the places I run. Since I'm also a retired cop -I wouldn't mind seeing them every now and then... On the Chokoloskee/ Everglades City side of things you're likely to see a ranger at least once a day -somewhere between there and Lostman's - including up inside, checking out the various campsites...

More to say about the Park and it's enforcement arm - but not on a public forum....

The only advice my Dad ever gave me - all those years ago when he learned that I was going into police work (around 1973...) was "kid, don't be a prick"... Pretty good advice for every young cop.... I'm long out of that world (more than 23 years now...) - but the basics of dealing with people don't change.


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## DBStoots

I think I met her once!


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## Padre

Now 


lemaymiami said:


> Rangers rotate throughout the National Park system.. They have to stay at a given assignment for a minimum time (I've heard both 15 and 18 months before they can bid to go somewhere else -but don't have any facts about how long, before they can apply to transfer...). As you can guess it's a rare young'un that wants to spend their years in the swamp, so the turnover is pretty constant until they gain rank or get tied down by family obligations...
> 
> True story... over on the Flamingo side we had a young and pretty ranger - female type... After a few months I struck up a conversation and asked her where her last duty station had been... She lit up with enthusiasm and said that she'd been assigned to "Liberty Bell National Park" before coming to the 'glades... That place is downtown Philadelphia... so you can guess how much she knew about the Park.... Needless to say she's long gone....
> 
> On the Flamingo side of things rangers have the only road in the Park - so that's where you'll find them running radar on a road that seldom sees an accident (all 38 miles of it)... and of course I rarely ever see a ranger in the places I run. Since I'm also a retired cop -I wouldn't mind seeing them every now and then... On the Chokoloskee/ Everglades City side of things you're likely to see a ranger at least once a day -somewhere between there and Lostman's - including up inside, checking out the various campsites...
> 
> More to say about the Park and it's enforcement arm - but not on a public forum....
> 
> The only advice my Dad ever gave me - all those years ago when he learned that I was going into police work (around 1973...) was "kid, don't be a prick"... Pretty good advice for every young cop.... I'm long out of that world (more than 23 years now...) - but the basics of dealing with people don't change.


Now granted, I don't live down there so I only go there once a year to camp and I have never seen a ranger out while fishing or camping out of Choko until this year during the shutdown. They came up and talked to us on Rodgers River chickee. I thought it was ironic that off all the times I have been there, the only time I have seen a ranger was during the government shut down.


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## Scott

I’ve run into a ranger named Brandon on several occasions. Nice guy, knowledgeable, and knows his way around.


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## kenb

I bought a “Senior Pass” a few years ago while at Acadia National Park in Maine. It is a lifetime pass. America the Beautiful, The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands’ Pass. Required minimum age is 62. Cost= $50.


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