# Guide taking limits for clients?



## MariettaMike

Earlier this week I observed a veteran ML guide loading his cleaning bucket with a dozen trout and three upper slot reds over at JB's. One of the trout was a fat 9# gator. His two clients appeared to be a father/son-in-law combo that didn't do much talking. All the spinning rods appeared to be rigged for fishing bait.

Though the guide probably baited hooks, I highly doubt the guide actually caught any of the fish, which leaves me wondering if is it legal for a guide to harvest fish for their clients in Florida? 

(I think in Louisiana the creel limit for captain and crew is zero.)


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## nsbsurfer15

The JBs weekend slaughter usually happens twice a day.... nothing new


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## Capt. Eli Whidden

Sounds like speculation. Who's to say the guide didn't catch any of the fish. Nobody knows except the father and son.... You should have just asked them.

The days where everything seems to work exactly as planned and clients catch everything they wanted to catch and more, it's not uncommon for us guides to share in the experience. Of course, most us never do... 

Who is the guide?


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## MariettaMike

> ... it's not uncommon for us guides to share in the experience.   Of course, most us never do...


I'll take this as a yes, that it is legal for guides to contribute to the daily creel limit in the State of Florida.


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## firecat1981

Just from my experience I'd say it is legal on guided trips. Per souls on board and boat total limits still come into play, but I think the larger drift boats and such play by different rules.


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## Brett

Head boats, charter boats, guided skiffs, even fishing piers are usually covered by an annual license
that covers the paying guests, so that they don't have to purchase a temporary fishing license.
Recreational regulations apply with hull limits and per licensed person limits enforced.
So if a guide has 3 paying guests aboard, they have to follow the regs same as everyone else,
and together can keep 4 persons worth of fish as long as it doesn't exceeed the per hull limit.


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## nightfly

I know in the ENP guides are not allowed to keep a snook as part of the overall boat limit. With headboats there are certain species of fish that are not allowed to be kept by captain and crew.


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## Brett

Thanks nightfly, reminded me where to look in the charter regs



> More Information for Charter Operators, captains and guides
> 
> Surf fishing and freshwater fishing guides and their customers are subject to Florida's recreational fishing license requirements.  The FWC does not require additional guide licenses.
> 
> A charter vessel captain who possesses a six-pack license under USCG and an FWC charter vessel license for up to 4 people may carry up to two extra passengers ONLY when they are NON-FISHERS.
> 
> Additional restrictions on charter boat captain and crew and for-hire guides on a keeping their limit of fish under their own valid recreational saltwater fishing licenses are species specific. Currently, for most species of saltwater fish, with the exception of snook, grouper and red snapper in federal waters, all persons aboard a charter vessel can keep a legal limit of fish if the paying passengers fish under the vessel license and the crew fish under their own valid licenses. For-hire guides may also keep a legal limit of fish while on duty with the exception of snook, grouper and red snapper in federal waters.
> 
> Snook:  The Florida Administrative Code (FAC), Chapter 68B-21.006 (3) for snook states: On any vessel licensed to carry customers wherein a fee is paid, either directly or indirectly, for the purpose of taking or attempting to take marine fish, the applicable bag and possession limit specified in this rule shall not extend to the operator of such vessel or any person employed as a crewman of such vessel.
> Grouper:  Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council regulations prohibit the captain and crew of for-hire vessels from retaining a federal recreational bag limit of any grouper while under charter in the Gulf of Mexico. Please review the NOAA regulations.External Website The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission established a zero bag limit for Gulf gag, red and black grouper for captains and crew on for-hire vessels in or on state waters.  Current information about grouper rules is available from the FWC Division of Marine Fisheries Management. You can read the rule in the FAC,External Website Chapter 68B-14.0036 (2)(d).
> Red Snapper:   In 2008 new regulations were implemented for red snapper in federal waters of the Gulf of Mexico that, among other restrictions, prohibits the captain and crew of for-hire vessels from retaining the federal recreational bag limit. More information on federal action is available from the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council.External Website Refer to the FWC saltwater fishing regulations for more information.  The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission also established a zero bag limit for captain and crew of for hire vessels in Gulf state waters for red snapper.  You can read the rule in the FAC,External Website Chapter 68B-14.0036(1)(c).
> 
> An occupational license may be required by the city or county where you are doing business.  Check with the city and county to see if you need an occupational license.
> 
> If you are operating a for-hire vessel in a park or a refuge (e.g., Everglades National Park), you may be required to have additional permits.  Please check with the park or refuge headquarters for any specific permitting requirements for those areas.
> 
> If you are operating a for-hire vessel in federal waters (outside of 9 nautical miles on the Gulf and 3 nautical miles on the Atlantic), you may need a federal charter vessel/headboat permit before fishing for certain species.  Contact the National Marine Fisheries Management Service,External Website Licensing and Permitting Office at 727-824-5326 for information on federal charter vessel/headboat permits.


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## fishicaltherapist

???? Unless that 9# Trout was a fish that couldn't be released; WHY would anyone of SOUND mind keep a breeder like that? Just wondering. :-?


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## grovesnatcher

Amen to that! Let them go!


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## topnative2

There are many "big wholes" in the laws.

In order for a person to exceed the recreational limit of fish they need a valid SPL and the vessel must be registered commercial.And, of course, this applies only to fish for which a commercial limit is allowed.

Most of the laws are a possession laws,so the problem that arises is that when paying passengers leave their catch.......the captain is then technically in violation of the laws...

These problems in the laws have been around for years and nothing is done because there is no coordination between law enforcement and the fisheries managers. The officers in the field are not consulted and usually ignored.


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## MariettaMike

> ???? Unless that 9# Trout was a fish that couldn't be released; WHY would anyone of SOUND mind keep a breeder like that? Just wondering. :-?



The guide did say he was happy it was a male after cleaning it, and added that the smaller trout were better eating, so again I speculate that fish was caught by the client.

Considering the amount of pressure the ML gets, I am still puzzled as to why this particular guide chooses to give away extra fish (whether he catches them or not) as an added value, while specifically declining fly fishing trips and referring C&R fly fisherman like me to other guides.


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## Guest

As a flyfishing guide,I'd say it would be nearly impossible to add to the "bag". I only cast if I'm demonstrating a technique. My clients didn't pay good money to watch me catch fish. I agree with one of the previous posts, "Let em go!".


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## swaddict

A lot of the guide trips that leave JB's are purchased from individuals vacationing NSB. These trips are geared towards a combination of bait chucking and sight fishing (if the angler has the abilities), it's not out of the ordinary for the guide to make casts or even hook the fish for the client. These clientele would like to keep a few fish. Some of the local restaurants actually will cook the fish you bring in. This has been going on for a long time there and that probably won't change anytime soon. There are few guides that run out of there that do not keep fish. I don't totally agree with the current situation. Some of the guides there have trouble keeping charters booked solid and are probably hesitant on saying no to a potential customer that would like to keep fish.


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## topnative2

The fish retention issue should be determined prior to the trip. 

The paying customer should be able to keep a lawful limit.

Nothing stops the Capt. from guiding a client to make a thoughtful decision.


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## Bill_Nosan

It would be nice to have the lagoon as a catch and release fishery. I live close to JB's and see the bag limits often. 
I know a lot of the guides who fish out of there and most would like to have the clients keep less fish.
There are a number of guides who espouse their nobility by being only catch and release, good for them. The truth is the vast majority of folks who use guides in NSB are tourists who want to have something to show for their money. From my observation, there is somewhat of a rift in the guide
community, mostly with the long-time guides against the part-timers whom they associate with the catch and release crowd. That the part-timers can be C&R because the don't have to rely on it to make a living.
There are exceptions to this rule, but I see both sides of the coin.
Personally, Id like to see a phase out of guiding in the lagoon over time. Maybe, something like, all current guides are permitted as long as they stay current with no new licenses issued. Either that or make the lagoon C&R, but that would impact current guides livelihood dramatically. Maybe, not many people would car about that, but I don't like to see anyone lose their job and ability to feed their family.

Best


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## Guest

I've seen this suggestion in limiting the number of guides before. The guide-booking public usually either doesn't own the proper gear or posses the local knowledge to fish these popular areas and so in limiting the guides, you're essentially limiting the public's access. As to the "rift", there are always some longtime guides that wish conditions could go back to the days when the fisheries were less crowded [less part-time guides and less fishers]. I'm pretty sure these guys also started as part-timers. The full-timers will almost always be better tuned into the latest fishing conditions and shouldn't worry about everyone else. Just my opinion.


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## bblanchie

I am new to the forum so will keep my responses short…if it is legal for guides to keep their limit as well then we are not in the place to tell them they should'nt. although I don't keep fish except when i am cooking them that same day I dont feel as fisherman, as a family we should ridicule those who decide to keep a few….that being said asshats that use "kill anything for the sake of killing" is wrong…….here in Tx we are setting a new trout limit just for that very reason….due to the same change the flounder population has responded in such a positive way that if you try and argue against it you prove yourself to be a complex idiot…sorry so much for short


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## pt448

The legal limits are set based on fisheries data to ensure a sustainable population. As long as you abide by the legal limit, it's all good. Technically you're supposed to keep only your individual limit, but "limit sharing" on boats is not that uncommon of a practice. Our limit for trout in LA is 25 per person (for most of the state) so most people don't keep track of how many they individually catch, but more of a total for the boat. Also, guides can catch their limit in addition to clients catching theirs. Most guides will give their fish to the clients.


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