# Need help on legal issues! HELP HELP HELP



## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

Okay, my friend and I are fishing in a limerock pit by our house which we have FULL permission by the owner to be there. We see a bow of a 15' alumn. boat sticking about 6 inches above the surface. We proceed to pull the boat up from its wattery grave to give it a thorough look down. We decided to take the boat back to my house and start restoring it to its former glory. Well I replaced everything that needed it and blah blah blah, i decided to run the FL number and see what I got. It came back as a guy about an hour or two away and NOT the owners of the pit. The police officer who i am very close with tells me I need to go to him and explain what happened to the owner of the boat before I go to the owners of the pit. My question is; Did we steal the boat or could it be considered abandoned? I thought about just by passing talking to anyone and just getting it registered as home made, but I'm afraid I wouldn't feel right. Me and my friend our both in high school and this would be our first boat so you can understand why we worked on the aspect of spend the little money we have and fully restore it and buy a trailer and etc before finding out who owned it and going that way. I would GREATLY apprieciate anyones imput because I'm stuck between a rock and a HARD place.  :'(


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'd contact the previous owner and tell him you found a sunk boat and ask him to sign over the title or bill of sale. If he says no tell him he can salvage it himself and resink it, but before resinking it tell him because its on private property he will have to pay for it to be salvaged by a company. At this point he'll most likely sign over the title rather then go through the expense.
Is this the most ethical approach....no.... the most ethical would be to call the previousowner and tell him the situation. If he wants it back give it to him but have him pay you back for whatever you have into it.

Boats like this are a dime a dozen on craigslist right now so don't sweat it if it doesn't work out for you.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

A few lessons to be learned.... The first thing to do would have been notifying the property owner of your find. The owner might have known about the hull, or not, but your first responsibility would be to notify him/her... The next thing to do should have been to contact the boat's registered owner or the police - take your pick - to find out if it was reported stolen... Not uncommon for someone to rip a boat, strip what they want then burn or sink the hull.

Although you've got time and money in it now... I'd still do what I've suggested (it's what I'd tell my son to do...). Then see how it all shakes out. You might have found a piece of abandoned property and it's yours. It might be reported stolen, in which case all you've got is trouble until the authorities are notified...
Good luck, hope it works out.

That "finders, keepers" thing doesn't apply to registered property unless you do the right things. If you find a vehicle that's been reported stolen and put lots of money and time fixing it up... you'll lose every penny you put into it. If it's listed as stolen, your money and time might be the least of your problems unless you do the right thing.


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## tojo (Dec 12, 2006)

> I'd contact the previous owner and tell him you found a sunk boat and ask him to sign over the title or bill of sale. If he says no tell him he can salvage it himself and resink it, but  before resinking it tell him because its on private property he will have to pay for it to be salvaged by a company. At this point he'll most likely sign over the title rather then go through the expense.
> Is this the most ethical approach....no.... the most ethical would be to call the previousowner and tell him the situation. If he wants it back give it to him but have him pay you back for whatever you have into it.
> 
> Boats like this are a dime a dozen on craigslist right now so don't sweat it if it doesn't work out for you.


Most ethical approach??? No, the most ethical approach would be to tell the truth.

You should have called the police. Hypothetically, what happens if you seek out the owner and find there is a missing persons report on him.

Additionally, if this was a stolen boat, or subject of a fraudulent insurance claim, you would have known immediately.

Luckily it is never too late to do the right thing.


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## nickgobrich (Aug 5, 2009)

Be honest!! Honesty will set you free!!!!


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## Kemo (Jun 22, 2008)

I agree with Capt. Lemay and Tojo. The property owner, the boat owner and the police all need to be contacted. And in your honesty, you may end up with a free boat. At least, you'll be free. And your concience will be free and you'll sleep better.

Kemo


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## Kemo (Jun 22, 2008)

BTW - Welcome to the forum. You'll get the best advice you'll ever get from anyone on here.

Kemo


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks Guys for all your help! I found out the guys telephone number and I will be contacting him as soon as I can. I'm really happy to see that this forum and everyone on it are so eager to help! Thanks again.


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## ko (Jun 9, 2007)

The law is likely different in many states. I went through the salvage/abandoned process in VA. 

The person who has the right to salvage in VA is the person whose property the boat is on. If the boat has been abandoned for more than a year on your property you can go through some steps to get title in your name. You have to show proof of trying to contact the last owner and/or placing adds in the newspaper. If the person does not come forward you can apply for a new title. IF the person comes forward you can charge storage/recovery fees which they likely will not want to pay and in that case they may sign title over to you. But in VA only the property owner on whose place the boat is (or washes up) has the right to try to get new title.


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## mirrocraft (Apr 29, 2009)

It is kinda sad that you have to ask how to do the right thing. You know it is not yours. Somone was nice enough to let you fish on their property. I was always taught take nothing but phtographs and leave nothing but footprints. If I let you fish on my land and I found out you took something. 

YOU WOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED BACK!!!!! Possibly Prosecuted....


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

Everyone on this forum is so nice and helpful... then you came along. Lets go by the first grade rule if you dont have anything nice to say DONT say anything at all. Thank you for all the helpful people on this site. To give everyone an update I called the OWNER of the boat and he said he would call me back tonight to finish our conversation.


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## jimbarn1961 (Aug 2, 2009)

> It is kinda sad that you have to ask how to do the right thing. You know it is not yours. Somone was nice enough to let you fish on their property. I was always taught take nothing but phtographs and leave nothing but footprints. If I let you fish on my land and I found out you took something.
> 
> YOU WOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED BACK!!!!! Possibly Prosecuted....


First off, He is a high school kid. He thought he had found a piece of junk left behind that he could make his own. He did come to his senses and has a conscience thus the reason he asked for some moral support and help from this fine site.  Should he have come forth sooner? Yes, but still he did!  Now rather then beat him up after the fact lets support him and try to work this situation out the best way possible after the fact.  the advice we give him here to use may help him to make better decisions later in life.  Do not waste this opportunity to form the charecter of our youth by beating him when he is down.  Sometimes we have to learn from our mistakes.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Amen!! At least that's the way I learned most of what I know...


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## gnuraider (Nov 4, 2008)

Yep - I give the kid credit for coming out here looking for a nudge in the right direction. Every indication is that he is taking the good advice he recieved on this forum and trying to make the situation right.

I look forward to seeing some updates as to how this situation was resolved...

Dave


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## jimbarn1961 (Aug 2, 2009)

Second that!  Let us know how it turns out for you moser.  good or bad just know you have done the right thing by coming forward and contacting the people involved to get an honest, honorable resolution to this matter.  Hope you do get the boat in the end


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi! Sorry I have not been on in quite some time. Here's what has happened. I went back to owner of loncala which is where I found it, he said he has never seen the boat and the i could have it. I then finished my restoration with a mercury 9.9 and a full audio system. I added new seats, storage and a trolling motor bracket for the bow. So far its been six months since I pulled the boat out of the water. Just a week ago I went and got a title for my trailer and the boat...98 dollars later... i registered it as a homemade boat and they asked no questions. I've taken the boat out twice once in a large privately owned pond and got 5 specks, then i took it down to suwannee and fished up in an along the creeks and caught 6 bass. Looking forward to doing alot more with this boat Oh and by the way the name of the boat is Captain's Pleasure.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

Post some Pixx


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Maybe I missed part of the story. Were you ever able to contact the previous owner of the boat? Were they aware that you have the boat? Sounds like the owner of the pit you found it in had no problems with you keeping the boat.


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

PICS! finally


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

more


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

more. someone tell me how to do this is one post please.


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

more


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

all picts. in one post ,,,, Brett -explained this to  me once..
put picts. in photobucket account,then open a word document,,copy and paste img. code in word document w' any caption you want -all this w' two windows open then copy/paste into reply page "here"..after two tries i got it -multiple photos -one post,any trouble?- holler..
                             -anytide


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## jimbarn1961 (Aug 2, 2009)

Looks like you have yourself a mighty fine first rig 
congratulations


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> Maybe I missed part of the story. Were you ever able to contact the previous owner of the boat? Were they aware that you have the boat? Sounds like the  owner of the pit you found it in had no problems with you keeping the boat.


??? I really hope and trust that he did after coming on here and getting all the advice to do so.

But I am really curious to hear either way from him!

Good looking boat though, lets see some pics of the resto process also!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

> 98 dollars later... i registered it as a homemade boat


Does not appear contact was made.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

> 98 dollars later... i registered it as a homemade boat


Awesome. You broke the law and now have permanently documented doing so. [smiley=bravo.gif]


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

I wouldn't say he broke any laws especially since the dmv titled it for him.

There is a whole mush of maritime/salvage/boat title laws out there and none of us are experts.

I would like to see the discussion about boat titles gone all together unless it is in regards to hand built boats.

Thats my thoughts anyway.


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## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

> I wouldn't say he broke any laws especially since the dmv titled it for him.
> 
> There is a whole mush of maritime/salvage/boat title laws out there and none of us are experts.
> 
> ...


x2


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

I feel VERY STRONGLY regarding our laws and try my best to strictly adhere to them. If I offended anyone, please accept my apologies.

"4. I(WE) hereby certify that the vessel described below has never been previously registered or titled with the State of Florida, or in 
any other state or country, and that a Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin or Builder’s Certificate has never been issued for said 
vessel." 

http://www.flhsmv.gov/hsmvdocs/dmv87002.pdf 

That line item is from the Florida State document to register a home built vessel. Manufactured boats (none homemade) in ANY shape or form do not fit into the category.


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## cal1320 (Jun 6, 2007)

> "4. I(WE) hereby certify that the vessel described below has never been previously registered or titled with the State of Florida, or in
> any other state or country, and that a Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin or Builder’s Certificate has never been issued for said
> vessel."


If an FWC officer ever looks at his registration, they will instantly know it was not home made. 
I believe HIN's were not required for boats until 1972. So, if the hull is older than 72 there may be no way to trace the  previous owner. There are legal ways to register the boat but it involves firey hoops.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

I kinda feel bad for the kid, although he had the chance to do the right thing. This forum, and all the others, are meant to share knowledge and help each other. Yet now his pride and joy first free boat ha turned south on him. Well I must say that plenty of people pointed out the right path and he just chose not to follow it. Oh well you can only lead the horse to the water, cant make him drink. 

I remain hopeful that he will soon reappear on here and correct our suspicions. And either way that he enjoys the boat and catches some fish out of it! But learns from what he should have done.


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

Guys I really thought that you guys had more faith in me. I took it back to the limerock company owner and asked him if I could perchase it or what he would like to do. He said he had never seen the boat and as far as he was conserned I could have it. I had a cop that lives next door run the fl number to try and trace it to an original owner and I got a name. I then tried to search him down by google, myspace, facebook, public records, and my mom searched to. We tried everything. So finally the cop next door and everyone just said get it titled as a homemade boat. I'm sorry I left most of this out, my computer is down so I've had to do most of this via blackberry.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

You made the effort, more than most would.
Due diligence has been satisfied.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> Hi! Sorry I have not been on in quite some time. Here's what has happened.* I went back to owner of loncala which is where I found it, he said he has never seen the boat and the i could have it. I then finished my restoration with a mercury 9.9 and a full audio system.* I added new seats, storage and a trolling motor bracket for the bow. So far its been six months since I pulled the boat out of the water. Just a week ago I went and got a title for my trailer and the boat...98 dollars later... i registered it as a homemade boat and they asked no questions. I've taken the boat out twice once in a large privately owned pond and got 5 specks, then i took it down to suwannee and fished up in an along the creeks and caught 6 bass. Looking forward to doing alot more with this boat Oh and by the way the name of the boat is Captain's Pleasure.


As I said in my last post, I was hoping you would come back and say something along those lines. Your previous post is why we all made the assumption you skipped the finding the old owner part.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

In that case you have done a very fine restoration and hopefully you took the time to build in some fish mojo.


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## hoser3 (Mar 24, 2008)

Photos please


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## MrMoser223 (Aug 25, 2009)

Pictures are on page 2. Also if any of you guys have any ideas about converting it to remote steer and a full deck? good or bad idea?


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## FSUfisher (Jul 16, 2007)

I would keep the steering as you have it. IMO, a good-sized front and rear deck will make your "new" boat much more fishable. A buddy and I once decked out an old Mirrocraft that was set up kind of like your boat. The decks were big enough so that the un-decked part was basically just a cockpit. Go for it!
And BTW, I would've done the same thing you did. I found my first boat as well, abandoned, and with the chump change I had at the time (I was 17 or 18) I fixed it up as well as possible. Never got it titled though. The thing still floats and I still use it when I go back to my parents. I'm confident it would be history if I didn't get a hold of it first.


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