# TX fish kills... what to do



## Smackdaddy53

I’m all for catch and release for a year or two but we all know that won’t fly here. They should at least not allow any trout to be taken during the spring and summer but we all know that won’t fly either. I honestly hope TPWD severely limits the taking of fish and at a minimum changes the slot limit to 16-18” or something like that. Summer meat hauls should cease and the Texas STAR tournament is considering going to a catch and release format like Florida which I have been talking about for years. Several hundred big 8-10 pound trout are killed for the weigh in every summer because there is no live weigh in option. This is ridiculous! Whatever happens we will live with but I hope this is a wake up call for meat haulers and trophy trout filleters that don’t seem to understand how important these fish are to the future of the resource.


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## lemaymiami

Every state has to control its own fisheries and all of us need to participate both individually and in organized groups. 

We’ve come a long way here in Florida. I can remember back in the seventies when we lost every fight - and watched as specie after specie went into decline and collapse. It took years before we were able to turn it around...

Hope every angler in Texas can get behind reasonable conservation measures, properly enforced, to bring back your inshore fishing. In past years I’ve contributed fishing trips for auction in Texas, Louisiana, and my own state Florida through the CCA outfits in each state. Guess I’ll have to get active again...


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## Smackdaddy53

lemaymiami said:


> Every state has to control its own fisheries and all of us need to participate both individually and in organized groups.
> 
> We’ve come a long way here in Florida. I can remember back in the seventies when we lost every fight - and watched as specie after specie went into decline and collapse. It took years before we were able to turn it around...
> 
> Hope every angler in Texas can get behind reasonable conservation measures, properly enforced, to bring back your inshore fishing. In past years I’ve contributed fishing trips for auction in Texas, Louisiana, and my own state Florida through the CCA outfits in each state. Guess I’ll have to get active again...


CCA could do better here, it’s time they wake up and get with the times. Making it mandatory to kill at MININUM an 8 pound trout to weigh in to possibly win a prize and continuing this bounty slaughter for about four months is absolutely not ok. This isn’t the 80’s, it’s time we get proactive with regulations. People always cry about more regulations yet seem to not be able to regulate themselves. Recreational and commercial fishermen are not in Mother Nature’s original formula. She can only balance what she can control.


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## CKEAT

The tournament fishing in Texas is completely out of control. There is a tournament at least and usually more than one every weekend for half the year at least. 

The incentive is to drive fast, far and win and nothing else.


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## karstopo

I’m all for conservation. Will be interesting to see what the data suggests on the freeze kill and the mood that develops. People are pretty pissed off now here mostly about the colossal failure of the electricity, fish might be low on the things that are a priority list. But, with the number of videos and photos of dead fish, there are now ones showing up with apparently numbers of healthy trout and reds sunning themselves out around Rockport and in canals.

There’s a lot of distrust in the leadership, the science, data and the veracity of information, that was true the last time TP&W lowered trout limits, maybe this time it will be different, but I’m not overly optimistic. The main two local to Texas saltwater fishing forums that I know about haven’t at all dominanted by the conservation camp. I guess we will see.


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## AZ_squid

If they lower limits or close a season on our major game fish here in TX the locals will lose their damn minds. There's a lot of close minded people who just don't care enough about the resource to look into what their actions actually do. You see it everywhere along banks where they pull up and throw trash everywhere and dead "less desirable " species just thrown up on the bank. It's in the mindset of the guys who run two trips with 4-5 clients and pack the cooler with ever legal fish they can get their hands on. For the mindset to change here it's going to have to be drastic, unfortunately I don't think a fish kill will "wake up" 99 percent of those people. Regulations need to be put in place if we want to see a curbing of the decline we're about to see. Just my .02


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## lemaymiami

Stand up, speak up, do your best to change that mindset... Don't get upset if it takes time to get where you want to be.

When I first came to Florida the regs were sparse - and poorly enforced. Any serious angler could sell his catch (in effect we were all commercials once we learned how to hammer the resource - but we learned better...). Today that's not only enforced -but most would never think of "feeding the neighborhood" the way so many of us did years ago... 
If CCA is not responsive - keep after them, talk to anyone that will listen - and don't give up. Contact folks running tournaments and ask them how they can justify killing fish - since other states and jurisdictions still have great tournaments - and long ago gave up on "kill tournaments" both in blue water and inshore... 

You either protect the fishing - and your shorelines along with inshore habitats, or watch it all disappear... over time.


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## Smackdaddy53

CKEAT said:


> The tournament fishing in Texas is completely out of control. There is a tournament at least and usually more than one every weekend for half the year at least.
> 
> The incentive is to drive fast, far and win and nothing else.


This goes for EVERYONE that wets a line. I have been preaching general conservation, not killing trophy breeder trout, not taking full limits just because we can etc for years and got a lot of static but I don’t care. If people didn’t wait until after an event like this to react and change their ways we might bounce back much sooner. We as recreational anglers are not part of the original equation. Let them swim, only keep what you plan on eating before freezing and don’t be greedy!
For the record I was around during the ‘83 and ‘89 freezes, it was not pretty. The rivers froze over 1” thick and the bays had ice sheets floating. Trout and redfish were not gamefish before ‘83...this was the year that changed. Fishing was not cool then and you could go out on the bay on a Saturday and maybe see one or two boats all day. The fishing pressure now is exponentially greater and we need to consider that what is legal does not mean it’s right.


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## fishicaltherapist

Texas was a DISASTER in the late 70's/early 80's & the conservation measures enacted, turned the tables & the Salt fishery exploded to the positive side. I agree that MANY people want all they can get no matter what however, by everyone possible going to CPR, a 1-2 year TOTAL closure on game fish, the fishery should rebound successfully, barring any more disasters. What will SEVERELY curtail the law breakers is BIG fines instead of wrist slaps & second offenses receiving 30 days, $1000 fine, & 5 years loss of fishing privileges, 3rd offense 90 days jail, $5000 fine, & lifetime fishing ban. Before some of you start screaming, please think, " Short term pain for Long term gain !!! " The closure in Florida has been a fantastic success story & fishing should remain great IF, folks don't get GREEDY !!!!


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## Smackdaddy53

One of the problems here is lack of game wardens. We have 3-4 per county if we’re lucky.


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## Drifter

Smackdaddy53 said:


> we need to consider that what is legal does not mean it’s right.


Good luck. I have preached this my whole life and gotten no where. My parents still ask me if I kept any. Haven’t kept a fish basically ever.


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## Smackdaddy53

Drifter said:


> Good luck. I have preached this my whole life and gotten no where. My parents still ask me if I kept any. Haven’t kept a fish basically ever.


I’m not saying it’s wrong to keep fish. You’d just have to see what goes on here to understand. Seeing it in person would make a lot of people sick.


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## Snakesurf

The real problem is the guy and guides with full stringer pictures. Those days are over, I have been releasing 5# and over trout for over 30 years and quit freezing fish for about 10. Big trout are not worth a shit to eat and the same goes for frozen fish. I also quit participating in the CCA tournament around the same time. Just keep what you can eat that day and no more. Preliminary observations: It looks like the deeper bays or the areas that have close access to deeper channels and contours are doing much better than the shallow bay systems starting just south of Port O. The fish kill in these areas are massive with some intervention surely imminent. We have still yet to see what has happened in the deeper bay systems north of Port O because it will take a while for the fish to decay enough to float. Hopefully, it will not be that bad. When water temperature begins to drop below 41° to 43° for more than a day it will start killing speckled trout. Redfish can take a little more and it looks like (preliminary) that it has not been as bad for them. In the last few years we have been getting more snook in our waters farther north. I am afraid this will chase them back to warmer southern waters. Also, I believe the tarpon are not as affected because they mostly should have moved out into the deeper waters of the Gulf anyway. Juvenile tarpon will most likely be affected, sadly. Change your habits, if you haven’t already, and practice catch and release. The fishery is more important than your pride.


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## Capnredfish

Not a fan of keeping more than you need for a dinner. Perhaps if enough fish were killed, it may drive the meat haul charters away. You guys in Texas can hope.


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## CKEAT

It’s amazing how many people keep bull redfish, beak the law all the time. For what, they are terrible to eat. It’s just to get those dock photo ops. Dumb as $&)@


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## TheFrequentFlier

I think more people like us need to start confronting people like this is a respectful way. Once enough people begin to say something and question their tactics, they may not like the public humiliation and change their behavior. Perhaps this is easier said than done.


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## CKEAT

TheFrequentFlier said:


> I think more people like us need to start confronting people like this is a respectful way. Once enough people begin to say something and question their tactics, they may not like the public humiliation and change their behavior. Perhaps this is easier said than done.


If you do that to have to be prepared to beat someone’s ass for it. Getting choked out from time to time is good for us all. Lessons forged in fire are so valuable.


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## Smackdaddy53

CKEAT said:


> If you do that to have to be prepared to beat someone’s ass for it. Getting choked out from time to time is good for us all. Lessons forged in fire are so valuable.


I’ve had guys want to fight on the water after they burned a shoreline I was poling and I ran past them, cut them off and politely educated them. I don’t think these guys know what assholes some of these inconsiderate pricks are. They know they are doing something wrong and will tell you that you don’t own the water. It’s amazing what people are like these days. When I was growing up my dad would have done more than talk to them but this is a different age of blatant, trashy people. 
I don’t know if you see it anywhere else but some of these idiots have “burn bars” fabricated that bolt to their center consoles and they stand on top of the console, lean on the burn bar and drive with their feet while burning flats looking for redfish. Here’s one of the jackasses...


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## jackson man

CKEAT said:


> The tournament fishing in Texas is completely out of control. There is a tournament at least and usually more than one every weekend for half the year at least.
> 
> The incentive is to drive fast, far and win and nothing else.


Too bad the tournaments couldn't follow the Major League Fishing model where fish catches are recorded and released immediately.


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## Smackdaddy53

jackson man said:


> Too bad the tournaments couldn't follow the Major League Fishing model where fish catches are recorded and released immediately.


28” redfish are not an issue, it’s what these guys do to catch them. The trout kill tournaments are an even bigger issue. You have to think about the size these fish get. A 28” redfish is not that big considering they grow to around 50-60”. Speckled trout grow to around 30-34” and people are killing trophy sized trout almost every tournament. It’s ridiculous. I’ve been raising hell about it for over a decade and no one seems to care.


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## TheFrequentFlier

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’ve had guys want to fight on the water after they burned a shoreline I was poling and I ran past them, cut them off and politely educated them. I don’t think these guys know what assholes some of these inconsiderate pricks are. They know they are doing something wrong and will tell you that you don’t own the water. It’s amazing what people are like these days. When I was growing up my dad would have done more than talk to them but this is a different age of blatant, trashy people.
> I don’t know if you see it anywhere else but some of these idiots have “burn bars” fabricated that bolt to their center consoles and they stand on top of the console, lean on the burn bar and drive with their feet while burning flats looking for redfish. Here’s one of the jackasses...


wow. What an epic piece of shit. And I thought I hated tower boats...


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## fishicaltherapist

Smackdaddy53 said:


> 28” redfish are not an issue, it’s what these guys do to catch them. The trout kill tournaments are an even bigger issue. You have to think about the size these fish get. A 28” redfish is not that big considering they grow to around 50-60”. Speckled trout grow to around 30-34” and people are killing trophy sized trout almost every tournament. It’s ridiculous. I’ve been raising hell about it for over a decade and no one seems to care.


All of the 15 seconds of fame pictures & momentary feeding of stupid egos !!!! It may take a VERY concerted effort to pressure the COASTAL politicians to realize how many fishing $$$$$ are part of the economy. When the economy goes, votes get action !! Best of luck to you Texas fishing folks !!!


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## lemaymiami

Here's a few things you can do.. use your cameras to document the fish kills - then send them to any media outlet that will publish them... Along the way point out that without the state's intervention the inshore fish stocks will suffer for years from this event... 

Use those same cameras to take photos of anyone burning a flat or killing enough fish to feed an army, even when legal - and do the same while pointing out that they're ruining the fishing for everyone else by their behavior.. No need to get up in ANYONE's face - but make sure that anyone running a tournament gets copies - and make sure as well that every supposed conservation group gets copies as well - while asking them why they're not acting on the info.... Here in Florida we'd have been lost without the solid support of the state's many fishing clubs - another resource for you... Slot limits that protect the big breeder fish are a particularly effective tool for fish stocks (and they're much easier to implement than closures if you can't get the support for outright closures to protect vulnerable fish stocks...)

It took us years and years to get to where we are here in Florida -and you have to start somewhere. Most of us are busy "preaching to the choir" when we speak out to folks who agree with us... It's the general public that needs to hear about your conservation issues... that's how we finally got the net ban amendment passed, and that's how we also got some serious changes as the state level about conservation enforcement -the FWC only came about after years of doing nothing by the state's Marine Patrol (before it finally was re-organized into the FWC...).

Nowadays in my state our most serious troubles are over water quality and we're just starting to make an impact there. What's really needed here is some serious outreach to the majority of our state - that aren't fishers, or outdoors types... We're not likely to get far without their support... 

I'll get down off of my soapbox now - feel free to send what I've said to anyone willing to listen. It's that important in my opinion.


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## Smackdaddy53

lemaymiami said:


> Here's a few things you can do.. use your cameras to document the fish kills - then send them to any media outlet that will publish them... Along the way point out that without the state's intervention the inshore fish stocks will suffer for years from this event...
> 
> Use those same cameras to take photos of anyone burning a flat or killing enough fish to feed an army, even when legal - and do the same while pointing out that they're ruining the fishing for everyone else by their behavior.. No need to get up in ANYONE's face - but make sure that anyone running a tournament gets copies - and make sure as well that every supposed conservation group gets copies as well - while asking them why they're not acting on the info.... Here in Florida we'd have been lost without the solid support of the state's many fishing clubs - another resource for you... Slot limits that protect the big breeder fish are a particularly effective tool for fish stocks (and they're much easier to implement than closures if you can't get the support for outright closures to protect vulnerable fish stocks...)
> 
> It took us years and years to get to where we are here in Florida -and you have to start somewhere. Most of us are busy "preaching to the choir" when we speak out to folks who agree with us... It's the general public that needs to hear about your conservation issues... that's how we finally got the net ban amendment passed, and that's how we also got some serious changes as the state level about conservation enforcement -the FWC only came about after years of doing nothing by the state's Marine Patrol (before it finally was re-organized into the FWC...).
> 
> Nowadays in my state our most serious troubles are over water quality and we're just starting to make an impact there. What's really needed here is some serious outreach to the majority of our state - that aren't fishers, or outdoors types... We're not likely to get far without their support...
> 
> I'll get down off of my soapbox now - feel free to send what I've said to anyone willing to listen. It's that important in my opinion.


Thank you Captain Lemay!


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## Xcapnjoe

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’ve had guys want to fight on the water after they burned a shoreline I was poling and I ran past them, cut them off and politely educated them. I don’t think these guys know what assholes some of these inconsiderate pricks are. They know they are doing something wrong and will tell you that you don’t own the water. It’s amazing what people are like these days. When I was growing up my dad would have done more than talk to them but this is a different age of blatant, trashy people.
> I don’t know if you see it anywhere else but some of these idiots have “burn bars” fabricated that bolt to their center consoles and they stand on top of the console, lean on the burn bar and drive with their feet while burning flats looking for redfish. Here’s one of the jackasses...


What a fookin dickweed...


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## fishicaltherapist

lemaymiami said:


> Here's a few things you can do.. use your cameras to document the fish kills - then send them to any media outlet that will publish them... Along the way point out that without the state's intervention the inshore fish stocks will suffer for years from this event...
> 
> Use those same cameras to take photos of anyone burning a flat or killing enough fish to feed an army, even when legal - and do the same while pointing out that they're ruining the fishing for everyone else by their behavior.. No need to get up in ANYONE's face - but make sure that anyone running a tournament gets copies - and make sure as well that every supposed conservation group gets copies as well - while asking them why they're not acting on the info.... Here in Florida we'd have been lost without the solid support of the state's many fishing clubs - another resource for you... Slot limits that protect the big breeder fish are a particularly effective tool for fish stocks (and they're much easier to implement than closures if you can't get the support for outright closures to protect vulnerable fish stocks...)
> 
> It took us years and years to get to where we are here in Florida -and you have to start somewhere. Most of us are busy "preaching to the choir" when we speak out to folks who agree with us... It's the general public that needs to hear about your conservation issues... that's how we finally got the net ban amendment passed, and that's how we also got some serious changes as the state level about conservation enforcement -the FWC only came about after years of doing nothing by the state's Marine Patrol (before it finally was re-organized into the FWC...).
> 
> Nowadays in my state our most serious troubles are over water quality and we're just starting to make an impact there. What's really needed here is some serious outreach to the majority of our state - that aren't fishers, or outdoors types... We're not likely to get far without their support...
> 
> I'll get down off of my soapbox now - feel free to send what I've said to anyone willing to listen. It's that important in my opinion.


EXCELLENT presentation Capt. Bob !!! It took us years of HARD & unrelenting work to get things changed in Florida & although not perfect, certainly our Florida fishery has improved. Thanks for your input !!!


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## karstopo

The lack of game wardens on the scene might be an issue. I’ve had one single semi-check from a game warden in decades of inshore fishing. It’s extremely rare to see one, most of them I see driving in their official trucks someplace and not anywhere all that close to the saltwater. Maybe they are spread too thin, I don’t know. There’s lot’s of stories about people calling in for a game warden with witnessing people loading up on undersized fish or some other obvious deal, but yet these spots keep getting the same activity over and over again. Videos of people driving 4 wheelers out across the marsh and onto the public oyster reefs for days and not a warden around, this surely did happen. 

I’d love to actually see more game wardens at the ramps and out on the water. There’s way too many second hand, yet credible stories of people loading up with boxes of fish, far beyond the limits, and doing it all with no repercussions. One guy I knew had a this cousin type of story, cousin caught 150 trout under the lights and kept them all, hard to tag anyone for or prove anything with the time that goes by, yet likely did happen. Zero shame and almost a pride about breaking fish and game laws too, this is a significant minority among the locals and others here.


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## Smackdaddy53

karstopo said:


> The lack of game wardens on the scene might be an issue. I’ve had one single semi-check from a game warden in decades of inshore fishing. It’s extremely rare to see one, most of them I see driving in their official trucks someplace and not anywhere all that close to the saltwater. Maybe they are spread too thin, I don’t know. There’s lot’s of stories about people calling in for a game warden with witnessing people loading up on undersized fish or some other obvious deal, but yet these spots keep getting the same activity over and over again. Videos of people driving 4 wheelers out across the marsh and onto the public oyster reefs for days and not a warden around, this surely did happen.
> 
> I’d love to actually see more game wardens at the ramps and out on the water. There’s way too many second hand, yet credible stories of people loading up with boxes of fish, far beyond the limits, and doing it all with no repercussions. One guy I knew had a this cousin type of story, cousin caught 150 trout under the lights and kept them all, hard to tag anyone for or prove anything with the time that goes by, yet likely did happen. Zero shame and almost a pride about breaking fish and game laws too, this is a significant minority among the locals and others here.


Yes, 3-4 wardens per county and that’s the big ones.


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## jackson man

karstopo said:


> The lack of game wardens on the scene might be an issue. I’ve had one single semi-check from a game warden in decades of inshore fishing. It’s extremely rare to see one, most of them I see driving in their official trucks someplace and not anywhere all that close to the saltwater. Maybe they are spread too thin, I don’t know. There’s lot’s of stories about people calling in for a game warden with witnessing people loading up on undersized fish or some other obvious deal, but yet these spots keep getting the same activity over and over again. Videos of people driving 4 wheelers out across the marsh and onto the public oyster reefs for days and not a warden around, this surely did happen.
> 
> I’d love to actually see more game wardens at the ramps and out on the water. There’s way too many second hand, yet credible stories of people loading up with boxes of fish, far beyond the limits, and doing it all with no repercussions. One guy I knew had a this cousin type of story, cousin caught 150 trout under the lights and kept them all, hard to tag anyone for or prove anything with the time that goes by, yet likely did happen. Zero shame and almost a pride about breaking fish and game laws too, this is a significant minority among the locals and others here.


We have the same issues. Even with the T.I.P. hotline (Turn in poachers), you call in and it might be more than 1 hour before a warden returns your call. Usually by that time, the criminals are long gone! I think that if the word got out that guys were paying 1000's in fines, losing gear, boats, privilages, etc. maybe we could make a dent?


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## jackson man

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Yes, 3-4 wardens per county and that’s the big ones.


They could just stake out a few popular ramps like sitting on a deer stand and just let the poachers come to them instead of driving around all day hoping to stumble into illegal activities!


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## Smackdaddy53

jackson man said:


> They could just stake out a few popular ramps like sitting on a deer stand and just let the poachers come to them instead of driving around all day hoping to stumble into illegal activities!


That’s part of the problem, not enough on the water, most are driving around back roads farting around with terrestrial poachers.


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## dbrady784

lemaymiami said:


> Here's a few things you can do.. use your cameras to document the fish kills - then send them to any media outlet that will publish them... Along the way point out that without the state's intervention the inshore fish stocks will suffer for years from this event...
> 
> Use those same cameras to take photos of anyone burning a flat or killing enough fish to feed an army, even when legal - and do the same while pointing out that they're ruining the fishing for everyone else by their behavior.. No need to get up in ANYONE's face - but make sure that anyone running a tournament gets copies - and make sure as well that every supposed conservation group gets copies as well - while asking them why they're not acting on the info.... Here in Florida we'd have been lost without the solid support of the state's many fishing clubs - another resource for you... Slot limits that protect the big breeder fish are a particularly effective tool for fish stocks (and they're much easier to implement than closures if you can't get the support for outright closures to protect vulnerable fish stocks...)
> 
> It took us years and years to get to where we are here in Florida -and you have to start somewhere. Most of us are busy "preaching to the choir" when we speak out to folks who agree with us... It's the general public that needs to hear about your conservation issues... that's how we finally got the net ban amendment passed, and that's how we also got some serious changes as the state level about conservation enforcement -the FWC only came about after years of doing nothing by the state's Marine Patrol (before it finally was re-organized into the FWC...).
> 
> Nowadays in my state our most serious troubles are over water quality and we're just starting to make an impact there. What's really needed here is some serious outreach to the majority of our state - that aren't fishers, or outdoors types... We're not likely to get far without their support...
> 
> I'll get down off of my soapbox now - feel free to send what I've said to anyone willing to listen. It's that important in my opinion.


Some major issues with this is the culture of tx. Not saying everyone, but a major draw to many clients out there is full stringers plain and simple.


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## Matts

We definitely need laws to reign in a the guides doing 2-3 trips in one day for 4-5 guys each trip. That’s up to 10-15 limits of fish boxed every day in peak summer months!


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## Smackdaddy53

dbrady784 said:


> Some major issues with this is the culture of tx. Not saying everyone, but a major draw to many clients out there is full stringers plain and simple.


That’s a little stereotypical to say it’s our culture. It’s more meat hauling guides taking googans from up north that come down and think they have to box every legal fish they catch like they are living off fish or something. A lot of us coastal natives that have been fishing here since the 80’s are pretty damn conservative. Lots of young guides are picking up these good habits from the older guys. I think everywhere you go on the gulf coast there are the typical residents that rape the resource. Look at Louisiana...


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## jay.bush1434

I went out on the water today running around West Galveston bay today to look for signs of fish kills. After 2.5 hours of running and some poling in one of the popular back lake marshes, I saw 1 dead flounder. Other than a couple small flounder we spooked while poling, we didn't see any other fish. It seems to me that the fish up here had a chance to get to deeper water. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of deeper water on the mid and lower coasts of Texas and the loss of fish populations is devastating. The concerns for our middle and lower coast fisheries is obvious but a potential problem brewing for the upper coast is more and more people fishing Galveston bay as opposed to further south therefore putting a huge strain on the fish populations here. For some reason there are way too many people here that think they have to box every legal fish they catch to call it a good fishing trip. I've tried for years to comment about CPR'ing fish instead of killing them all the time on a couple of the local forums and I always get blasted by some troglodyte salt life hick. I guess I'm going to put on my flame proof clothing and go post some more about catch and release to save the fishery instead of catch and release to grease. Good thing I'm a pretentious fly fisherman so they'll be expecting it from me...LOL
I personally would like to see TPWD grab their nut sack and close the speckled trout and snook fishery for a couple years but no way that will happen. Way too many yahoos will scream like "the man" is stealing food from their baby's mouth by not being able to keep any trout.


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## Smackdaddy53

jay.bush1434 said:


> I went out on the water today running around West Galveston bay today to look for signs of fish kills. After 2.5 hours of running and some poling in one of the popular back lake marshes, I saw 1 dead flounder. Other than a couple small flounder we spooked while poling, we didn't see any other fish. It seems to me that the fish up here had a chance to get to deeper water. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of deeper water on the mid and lower coasts of Texas and the loss of fish populations is devastating. The concerns for our middle and lower coast fisheries is obvious but a potential problem brewing for the upper coast is more and more people fishing Galveston bay as opposed to further south therefore putting a huge strain on the fish populations here. For some reason there are way too many people here that think they have to box every legal fish they catch to call it a good fishing trip. I've tried for years to comment about CPR'ing fish instead of killing them all the time on a couple of the local forums and I always get blasted by some troglodyte salt life hick. I guess I'm going to put on my flame proof clothing and go post some more about catch and release to save the fishery instead of catch and release to grease. Good thing I'm a pretentious fly fisherman so they'll be expecting it from me...LOL


I have heard many similar reports from up your way but you have to remember they don’t all get a chance to float or have not started floating yet. Here’s a helicopter photo of Port Mansfield. The whole video shows shorelines lined with lots of solid trout. Once again...Mother Nature didn’t have recreational fishermen in her original formula. Before man dredged the channels (ICW/ship channels) blew holes out with bombs (Army Hole etc) and made deep harbors the fish had a few options to survive these freeze events. They either moved to the nearest deep hole, went up in the rivers or out the passes. Trout generally do not migrate more than a few miles. The ones that are too far from these deep water safe harbors froze then Mother Nature replenished the system. We have to keep these things in mind, especially with the numbers of people on the water these days. In the 80’s we would go fishing on a Saturday and see just a couple of boats if we were lucky. Now you can’t get away from them no matter where you go, even in the middle of the week in winter.


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## Drifter

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m not saying it’s wrong to keep fish. You’d just have to see what goes on here to understand. Seeing it in person would make a lot of people sick.


well your going to have a hard time if only people that see it in person can understand.

Its because Texas has 26 million people. It’s not “people from the northern states”. Where I am from it is wrong to keep fish. To many people keepin fish. That’s the end point, limits need to be much smaller.


----------



## Snakesurf

It comes down to this: Only kill what you can eat. Don't waste our precious resources on a fuckin picture of a full stringer or a dead trophy fish. Let it go and let it live. If you kill it eat it, there are no excuses.


----------



## anzuelo

It is not too many people catching fish, it is too many people. The advances in technology over the past fifty years has meant that we are just getting too good at catching our inshore fish.

I am seventy and remember as a child the stories of epic fishing adventures on the Texas coast that would today be considered just a morning trip. Places like Baffin Bay and Cedar Bayou were spoken about as if they were some type of El Dorado. Of course back then a twenty horsepower motor was considered good sized, we didn't have GPS chartplotters/depthfinders, launch ramps were not as prevalent plus we had none of the advantages of tackle like now. A Ambassadeur 5000 was extremely high tech. Crappy lines ruled, no high tech braid or graphite rods either. Neither did we have the vast array of artificial baits we now utilize.

Even considering the lack of technology, that era had some great fishermen, the late Rudy Grigar comes to mind (read his book "Plugger"). However there were only a handful of fishing virtuosos back then compared to the hoards of anglers covering the bays today. And add to this mix the information sharing of the internet.

To quote the cartoon character "Pogp" fifty years ago, "We have met the enemy and he is us."


----------



## karstopo

Drifter said:


> well your going to have a hard time if only people that see it in person can understand.
> 
> Its because Texas has 26 million people. It’s not “people from the northern states”. Where I am from it is wrong to keep fish. To many people keepin fish. That’s the end point, limits need to be much smaller.


 Try 30 million.


----------



## Steve_Mevers

AZ_squid said:


> If they lower limits or close a season on our major game fish here in TX the locals will lose their damn minds. There's a lot of close minded people who just don't care enough about the resource to look into what their actions actually do. You see it everywhere along banks where they pull up and throw trash everywhere and dead "less desirable " species just thrown up on the bank. It's in the mindset of the guys who run two trips with 4-5 clients and pack the cooler with ever legal fish they can get their hands on. For the mindset to change here it's going to have to be drastic, unfortunately I don't think a fish kill will "wake up" 99 percent of those people. Regulations need to be put in place if we want to see a curbing of the decline we're about to see. Just my .02


Regulations are for those that cannot regulate themselves...


----------



## Steve_Mevers

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’ve had guys want to fight on the water after they burned a shoreline I was poling and I ran past them, cut them off and politely educated them. I don’t think these guys know what assholes some of these inconsiderate pricks are. They know they are doing something wrong and will tell you that you don’t own the water. It’s amazing what people are like these days. When I was growing up my dad would have done more than talk to them but this is a different age of blatant, trashy people.
> I don’t know if you see it anywhere else but some of these idiots have “burn bars” fabricated that bolt to their center consoles and they stand on top of the console, lean on the burn bar and drive with their feet while burning flats looking for redfish. Here’s one of the jackasses...


Years ago I knew of a fisherman who went to the Keys and cutoff a guide poling a flat, they had some words and the fisherman told the guide he did not own the flat. The next morning the guide was still poling the flats, but the arrogant fisherman's boat was found sunk in the bay.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Drifter said:


> well your going to have a hard time if only people that see it in person can understand.
> 
> Its because Texas has 26 million people. It’s not “people from the northern states”. Where I am from it is wrong to keep fish. To many people keepin fish. That’s the end point, limits need to be much smaller.


Have you fished here for 35 years?


----------



## Drifter

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Have you fished here for 35 years?


good point. I have no reason to give a shit about your fishery or Texas for that matter. 
thanks for talking me out of it.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Drifter said:


> good point. I have no reason to give a shit about your fishery or Texas for that matter.
> thanks for talking me out of it.


You make posts like anyone that catches a fish and eats it is a selfish asshole. Let’s not be foolish here.


----------



## jackson man

Drifter said:


> good point. I have no reason to give a shit about your fishery or Texas for that matter.
> thanks for talking me out of it.


. You might think that any fishery in trouble would welcome all the allies it could?


----------



## karstopo

Twos through nines, it doesn’t have to be absolute. My hope is that Texas will always have a vibrant enough fishery that will support some amount of retention of one’s catch, if some wishes to retain their catch. It’s been that way forever pretty much, no reason it can’t go on that way. I think Texas would be making a mistake going to completely catch and release. Mandatory Catch and release statewide smacks of an elitist approach to fishing and what fishing should be, just my two cents.


----------



## jay.bush1434

karstopo said:


> Twos through nines, it doesn’t have to be absolute. My hope is that Texas will always have a vibrant enough fishery that will support some amount of retention of one’s catch, if some wishes to retain their catch. It’s been that way forever pretty much, no reason it can’t go on that way. I think Texas would be making a mistake going to completely catch and release. Mandatory Catch and release statewide smacks of an elitist approach to fishing and what fishing should be, just my two cents.


I want mandatory catch and release for a couple of years to allow the fish stock to recover and not to be a permanent rule. The reason it has to come from the state is that we already know that most people can't regulate themselves. Trust me @karstopo, you are not part of the people I'm talking about. The folks I'm talking about are the same ones that have flamed me over the years when I've suggested letting some of them go instead of boxing them all on other local forums like 2cool. One of the last times I posted on that forum suggesting to people to consider letting some of them go I had a guy respond to my post saying that catch and release stuff is for bass fishing and when he comes to the salt, he's taking home a box full. It is that mentality that is so pervasive in Texas regarding saltwater fish that is the reason it has to be a law.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

jackson man said:


> . You might think that any fishery in trouble would welcome all the allies it could?


We don’t need dudes from California or Montana telling us what we should do.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

jay.bush1434 said:


> I want mandatory catch and release for a couple of years to allow the fish stock to recover and not to be a permanent rule. The reason it has to come from the state is that we already know that most people can't regulate themselves. Trust me @karstopo, you are not part of the people I'm talking about. The folks I'm talking about are the same ones that have flamed me over the years when I've suggested letting some of them go instead of boxing them all on other local forums like 2cool. One of the last times I posted on that forum suggesting to people to consider letting some of them go I had a guy respond to my post saying that catch and release stuff is for bass fishing and when he comes to the salt, he's taking home a box full. It is that mentality that is so pervasive in Texas regarding saltwater fish that is the reason it has to be a law.


You remember me on there over a decade ago telling them the same thing and I got the same response from most.


----------



## dbrady784

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You remember me on there over a decade ago telling them the same thing and I got the same response from most.





Smackdaddy53 said:


> That’s a little stereotypical to say it’s our culture. It’s more meat hauling guides taking googans from up north that come down and think they have to box every legal fish they catch like they are living off fish or something. A lot of us coastal natives that have been fishing here since the 80’s are pretty damn conservative. Lots of young guides are picking up these good habits from the older guys. I think everywhere you go on the gulf coast there are the typical residents that rape the resource. Look at Louisiana...


But thought it wasn’t the culture....


----------



## Smackdaddy53

dbrady784 said:


> But thought it wasn’t the culture....


When you bring up culture it makes it sound like everyone here meat hauls and kills big trout which is not the case. It’s a lot of people’s mentality but I wouldn’t go so far as state that it’s our culture here on the Texas coast. You also have to consider the audience was a bunch of guys on a forum kind of like this one but a lot more googans.


----------



## dbrady784

I 


Smackdaddy53 said:


> When you bring up culture it makes it sound like everyone here meat hauls and kills big trout which is not the case. It’s a lot of people’s mentality but I wouldn’t go so far as state that it’s our culture here on the Texas coast. You also have to consider the audience was a bunch of guys on a forum kind of like this one but a lot more googans.


I hear ya, but which forum caters to more TX anglers. Case and point. Do we see more poling skiffs or tower/flats cats running around? Not that I lived there long, but long enough. Heck right before I left I was supposed to fish in the “gulf coast massacre” trout tournament.......


----------



## Drifter

Smackdaddy53 said:


> We don’t need dudes from California or Montana telling us what we should do.


the only one on this site telling other people what to do is you and your tough guy act Smack. I can pull up five threads from the last week you were completely rude and tell another member to shut up because they aren’t from Texas. Whether it is the weather, or don’t share your politics, or aren’t from your state, or don’t have a skiff you just bark at everyone to shut up because they aren’t qualified by Smacks scale.

There are members on this site trying to contribute and you knock them down every day. Sometime @anytide should just go through and read your comments for the last week. Half are ugly, many are name calling, probably the most profanity of anyone here. Have fun censoring everyone else and being a high school bully. I can’t imagine why people don’t listen to you.

I will personally be enjoying the site without your presence. Once I figure out this ignore button.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Drifter said:


> the only one on this site telling other people what to do is you and your tough guy act Smack. I can pull up five threads from the last week you were completely rude and tell another member to shut up because they aren’t from Texas. Whether it is the weather, or don’t share your politics, or aren’t from your state, or don’t have a skiff you just bark at everyone to shut up because they aren’t qualified by Smacks scale.
> 
> There are members on this site trying to contribute and you knock them down every day. Sometime @anytide should just go through and read your comments for the last week. Half are ugly, many are name calling, probably the most profanity of anyone here. Have fun censoring everyone else and being a high school bully. I can’t imagine why people don’t listen to you.
> 
> I will personally be enjoying the site without your presence. Once I figure out this ignore button.


It’s pretty easy, you build bridges you should be able to figure it out.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

dbrady784 said:


> I
> 
> I hear ya, but which forum caters to more TX anglers. Case and point. Do we see more poling skiffs or tower/flats cats running around? Not that I lived there long, but long enough. Heck right before I left I was supposed to fish in the “gulf coast massacre” trout tournament.......


Do you remember our text discussion the other day after I bought flies from you?


----------



## fatman

Smackdaddy53 said:


> When you bring up culture it makes it sound like everyone here meat hauls and kills big trout which is not the case. It’s a lot of people’s mentality but I wouldn’t go so far as state that it’s our culture here on the Texas coast. You also have to consider the audience was a bunch of guys on a forum kind of like this one but a lot more googans.


It ain't just Texas. EVERY state fish&game department tries to keep it's largest constituency happy (as per license sales) and the vast majority of fisherfolk in any state are gonna be the meat haulers. Most of those folks make up about 10% of the man/days on the water (individually), but their collective impact on the resource is significant.

I'd still bet the largest number of license purchasers in the Rocky Mountain "trout" states are worm dunkers.

confession: my wife comes from a long line of Ozark baitfishers, and she's good at it. She has no interest in
flyfishing. But then again, she only fishes about six times a year....


----------



## Drifter

fatman said:


> It ain't just Texas. EVERY state fish&game department tries to keep it's largest constituency happy (as per license sales) and the vast majority of fisherfolk in any state are gonna be the meat haulers. Most of those folks make up about 10% of the man/days on the water (individually), but their collective impact on the resource is significant.
> 
> I'd still bet the largest number of license purchasers in the Rocky Mountain "trout" states are worm dunkers.
> 
> confession: my wife comes from a long line of Ozark baitfishers, and she's good at it. She has no interest in
> flyfishing. But then again, she only fishes about six times a year....


Agreed that the guys keeping the fish make a big impact. I mean where I fish in Florida a lot of the schools of red are like 5 fish and they stay in the same areas. It would only take people keeping a few a day on a week long trip to ensure there’s nothing on that key.

I can see the allure of the ease of bait fishing and keeping fish as well, I like eating fish.

Im sure it’s Flyfishing for license sales in Montana. Almost all of our major river Fisheries are fly only or catch and release only. So many people travel toMontana just to flyfish a river for a few days.


----------



## Drifter

https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/Natl%20Fishing%20License%20Report%202016.pdf



This is kind of interesting to show that only about 1 out of ten license holders in Texas are from out of state. In Montana it’s about 3 out 4 license holders are from out of state.

Also interesting that Texas licenses are only about 7 percent of the population and in Montana it’s about 43 percent. If I am reading this right.

Quick edit: So when ya go out there and see all the stupid googans and guys that keep all of their fish they are almost certainly Texans.


----------



## Surffshr

There will be people pointing at large fish kills as a reason the 5 fish and trophy trout limit was overreaching government regulation saying “see, there were a lot of trout and we should have been able to kill them”. Gill-netters said the same after the freezes in the 80’s (and the few around still do say it). I’d love to see a temp moratorium on keeping fish until the scope of this event is understood...but I seriously doubt it will happen.


----------



## jackson man

Surffshr said:


> There will be people pointing at large fish kills as a reason the 5 fish and trophy trout limit was overreaching government regulation saying “see, there were a lot of trout and we should have been able to kill them”. Gill-netters said the same after the freezes in the 80’s (and the few around still do say it). I’d love to see a temp moratorium on keeping fish until the scope of this event is understood...but I seriously doubt it will happen.


 It's a shame that some people are so short-sighted and narrowminded. Convincing the meat haulers that a bit of sacrifice now can pay great dividends in the future will forever be challenging!


----------



## Smackdaddy53

jackson man said:


> It's a shame that some people are so short-sighted and narrowminded. Convincing the meat haulers that a bit of sacrifice now can pay great dividends in the future will forever be challenging!


I could compare that statement to other goings on right now...people are hard to change.


----------



## dbrady784

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I could compare that statement to other goings on right now...people are hard to change.


Preaching to the choir. Some still think that a center console has more benefits than a tiller.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

dbrady784 said:


> Preaching to the choir. Some still think that a center console has more benefits than a tiller.


----------



## CKEAT

Drifter said:


> https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/Natl%20Fishing%20License%20Report%202016.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> This is kind of interesting to show that only about 1 out of ten license holders in Texas are from out of state. In Montana it’s about 3 out 4 license holders are from out of state.
> 
> Also interesting that Texas licenses are only about 7 percent of the population and in Montana it’s about 43 percent. If I am reading this right.
> 
> Quick edit: So when ya go out there and see all the stupid googans and guys that keep all of their fish they are almost certainly Texans.


Except a HUGE part of the population in DFW, Houston and Austin / San Antonio metro areas are not native Texans.
Look, there are shit bags everywhere but when I was growing up, not everyone was an “outdoorsman”. The rich folks hung out at the golf / tennis country club. Now they want to shoot a big deer and go get saltwater fish kill photos ops.


----------



## Matts

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’ve had guys want to fight on the water after they burned a shoreline I was poling and I ran past them, cut them off and politely educated them. I don’t think these guys know what assholes some of these inconsiderate pricks are. They know they are doing something wrong and will tell you that you don’t own the water. It’s amazing what people are like these days. When I was growing up my dad would have done more than talk to them but this is a different age of blatant, trashy people.
> I don’t know if you see it anywhere else but some of these idiots have “burn bars” fabricated that bolt to their center consoles and they stand on top of the console, lean on the burn bar and drive with their feet while burning flats looking for redfish. Here’s one of the jackasses...


What an absolute jack ass.


----------



## mwolaver

Saw a video on youtube about this yesterday...I didn't watch it. But this may be something to consider when looking for opportunities to sway opinion.


----------



## Sublime

dbrady784 said:


> So I’m sure everyone has seen what is going on in Texas right now. If you haven’t you should do a little research . Some areas that may have been a world class fishery have been decimated. With that being said I’ve seen on other forums the talk of reeasing trout of 21”. Do you think this is the right way to go? Should the completely shut it down to catch and release like the west coast of Florida did during the red tide fish kills?



I'm not sure about any "world class fisheries" in existence here in Texas before the freeze. In my experience, the fishing is nowhere near as good as it was when I started fly fishing the upper middle coast in 2007. I guess it all depends on one's frame of reference. I started saltwater fishing in the 1980s. I've seen a lot of cycles. Some coastal counties are predicted to double in population over the next 10-15 years. What will that do to the fishery?


----------



## Drifter

CKEAT said:


> Except a HUGE part of the population in DFW, Houston and Austin / San Antonio metro areas are not native Texans.
> Look, there are shit bags everywhere but when I was growing up, not everyone was an “outdoorsman”. The rich folks hung out at the golf / tennis country club. Now they want to shoot a big deer and go get saltwater fish kill photos ops.


And I think that is why there is no solution but to harshly regulate if anything. 

The conversation here has really boiled down to “it is someone else”.

I mean My point is “it is going to be hard to change that mentality”


CKEAT said:


> Except a HUGE part of the population in DFW, Houston and Austin / San Antonio metro areas are not native Texans.
> Look, there are shit bags everywhere but when I was growing up, not everyone was an “outdoorsman”. The rich folks hung out at the golf / tennis country club. Now they want to shoot a big deer and go get saltwater fish kill photos ops.


Hmmm. I mean I hate to say it but there probably are some guys that do that, but I don’t think the problem is just rich people that came there from out of state. 


Matts said:


> What an absolute jack ass.


Me?


----------



## dbrady784

Sublime said:


> I'm not sure about any "world class fisheries" in existence here in Texas before the freeze. In my experience, the fishing is nowhere near as good as it was when I started fly fishing the upper middle coast in 2007. I guess it all depends on one's frame of reference. I started saltwater fishing in the 1980s. I've seen a lot of cycles. Some coastal counties are predicted to double in population over the next 10-15 years. What will that do to the fishery?


have you heard the saying “the grass is always greener.” Texas without a doubt is a world class fishery. I can’t think of a better place off the top of my head to target trophy trout than laguna madre. No doubt that fishing was probably better however many years ago, it always will be. A smaller population, less pressure, less development and impact on the coast. If you have the mindset of how much better yesterday (or years past) fishing was then you are not going to have a good time going forward


----------



## lemaymiami

I’ll chime in ... one more time.

The only way to go is to have your state’s fisheries biologists look at you current situation then come up with whatever measures will be needed to either restore and/or improve your fisheries, species by species (and area by area)... 

Then comes the political process where your fish & game decision makers get public input then make decisions...

None of this will be perfect and you can be sure that various interest groups will try to
have their needs met first met.

In short y’all need to take care of business...


----------



## Sublime

dbrady784 said:


> have you heard the saying “the grass is always greener.” Texas without a doubt is a world class fishery. I can’t think of a better place off the top of my head to target trophy trout than laguna madre.* No doubt that fishing was probably better however many years ago, it always will be*. A smaller population, less pressure, less development and impact on the coast. If you have the mindset of how much better yesterday (or years past) fishing was then you are not going to have a good time going forward


That's not always true. Like I said, in my 40 plus years of fishing here on the Texas coast, I've seen UPS _and_ downs. As a whole, I think there are a bunch of settlers out there and hence why no significant changes in the way things are done will be forthcoming anytime soon. I think it is too early to tell exactly what this freeze did. If it _did_ do significant damage, then there will emerge a new normal and most everyone will accept it.


----------



## Flyboy

Sublime said:


> I've seen UPS _and_ downs.


I’m personally a fedex man myself


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Drifter said:


> And I think that is why there is no solution but to harshly regulate if anything.
> 
> The conversation here has really boiled down to “it is someone else”.
> 
> I mean My point is “it is going to be hard to change that mentality”
> 
> 
> Hmmm. I mean I hate to say it but there probably are some guys that do that, but I don’t think the problem is just rich people that came there from out of state.
> 
> 
> Me?


You must have a guilty conscience. He was referring to the burn bar boat guy standing on his console.


----------



## TX_maverick

It will be interesting to see the pressure shift to bays that may have fared better. Could put an unbalanced outcome on those resources, time will tell.

Also, all these guides who are preaching that they will be catch and release only for the rest of the year...let's see how long that lasts. I have a feeling there will be many a foot in mouth. Another note about guides and conservation...I find it humorous when guides get snippy about fish numbers. I know they make their money off of the resource, but I listened to a podcast about speckled trout conservation, and a guide down south was preaching about conservation, conservation, conservation. If you go to his insta account, it is nothing but dead trout and reds all over his boat, WTF. Guide rant over.


----------



## CKEAT

It is a mindset and yes it is “someone else”, I was taught very early to respect folks and property. Period or possible face a nasty ass beating. No consequences is a problem in today’s time.

it’s normal as society moves towards liberal ideology. People need sympathy and sense of community but if communities don’t regulate their own it will get sideways.

what happens when you allo


jackson man said:


> Too bad the tournaments couldn't follow the Major League Fishing model where fish catches are recorded and released immediately.


Yea, following the Bass model would change the game for sure.


----------



## CKEAT

Drifter said:


> And I think that is why there is no solution but to harshly regulate if anything.
> 
> The conversation here has really boiled down to “it is someone else”.
> 
> I mean My point is “it is going to be hard to change that mentality”
> 
> 
> Hmmm. I mean I hate to say it but there probably are some guys that do that, but I don’t think the problem is just rich people that came there from out of state.
> 
> 
> Me?


Yep, you got it. It is "Someone Else" regarding my behavior in the outdoors. I was taught (with an iron fist) when I was very young to do whatever it takes to respect the outdoors and people for that matter. ALWAYS pull more than your own weight and you can go to sleep at night without issue. I will keep a fish or two to eat that day or next few days but that is very rare. I don't see the land as mine, I am just blessed to enjoy in good health and sound mind (debatable) HAHAHA.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

TX_maverick said:


> It will be interesting to see the pressure shift to bays that may have fared better. Could put an unbalanced outcome on those resources, time will tell.
> 
> Also, all these guides who are preaching that they will be catch and release only for the rest of the year...let's see how long that lasts. I have a feeling there will be many a foot in mouth. Another note about guides and conservation...I find it humorous when guides get snippy about fish numbers. I know they make their money off of the resource, but I listened to a podcast about speckled trout conservation, and a guide down south was preaching about conservation, conservation, conservation. If you go to his insta account, it is nothing but dead trout and reds all over his boat, WTF. Guide rant over.


I used to kill a lot of fish too, I grew up on fish and wild game because we were poor and there was not the pressure we have now. Yeah I have some meat haul buddies that are always the same...they wait until after a fish kill to start conserving the fish and possibly releasing more fish etc. It’s too late for all that, if more folks stopped filling coolers and killing trophy breeder trout before the kills Mother Nature could rebound much sooner.


----------



## jay.bush1434

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You remember me on there over a decade ago telling them the same thing and I got the same response from most.


@Smackdaddy53 I also remember us having the same discussion in my driveway many years ago when you picked up that heavy duty metal skiff from me. Maybe after all the videos of dead fish circulating on the socials, some of the kill'em all attitude will start to change.


----------



## sjrobin

TX_maverick said:


> It will be interesting to see the pressure shift to bays that may have fared better. Could put an unbalanced outcome on those resources, time will tell.
> 
> Also, all these guides who are preaching that they will be catch and release only for the rest of the year...let's see how long that lasts. I have a feeling there will be many a foot in mouth. Another note about guides and conservation...I find it humorous when guides get snippy about fish numbers. I know they make their money off of the resource, but I listened to a podcast about speckled trout conservation, and a guide down south was preaching about conservation, conservation, conservation. If you go to his insta account, it is nothing but dead trout and reds all over his boat, WTF. Guide rant over.


Truth and most guides.


----------



## Snakesurf

The water temperatures are still pretty low and hopefully they will come back up very soon. A lot of fish are still on the bottom and even though they will take a bait they may not be able to recover from the shock of being caught. I think for the next couple weeks we should leave them alone or at least just site cast to redfish near the shore and lay off the deeper holes and cuts.


----------



## karstopo

TP&W does a good job I believe on the science. Their Spring look at the numbers in all the bays is a couple of months away. They follow the same methodology year in and year out for decades now and I think it’s a fair and consistent approach to the resource. I think by the time the spring survey numbers are in we will have a much better handle on how bad and far reaching this freeze kill was. As I look at it and with every competing interest involved taken into consideration, TP&W has managed the resource pretty well for decades including past major freeze kills so there’s no reason to believe they won’t do a good job again. For all the years I’ve fished, I don’t see where the fishery has been in decline. Great catching days with lots of fish around, middling days having to search a wider area for them, and mediocre days with fish few and far between, been that way for decades. We bounced back from 1983, 1989 and any of the other lesser kills, why would it be any different now?


----------



## Newman

We fight the same battles here in SC, except our DNR has no power to write or change laws, the politicians in Columbia still claim those powers. Unfortunately only 5 counties, and their representatives have marine fish, the other 41 counties and their “leaders” fight any new regulations tooth and nail.
Parts of our coast have suffered 2 terrible winter fish kills in the last decade, the DNR was powerless to do anything but promote an purely voluntary “release under 20inch” campaign.
To me an obvious solution is to have different regulations for different areas, it’s widely a accepted practice when it comes to offshore, inland fisheries and hunting regulations. If only 20% of our inshore fishery was “no possession” everyone would have a better experience as the overall population of fish would increase dramatically with a few select “sanctuaries”; the guys wanting limits would have less trouble getting theirs, and the catch and release crowd wouldn’t have to worry about an armada of bay boats soaking bait in every hole at low tide in the fall/winter...
At the end of the day everyone wants more fish and better fishing, not sure why it’s so difficult other than the fact politicians are involved...


----------



## Surffshr

karstopo said:


> We bounced back from 1983, 1989 and any of the other lesser kills, why would it be any different now?


There are many differences now to those years some of which have already come up in this thread. More people and much more pressure on the resource is my main concern, but habitat loss and degradation might be the real problem for a recovery. The ecosystem that supports these fish and the fish themselves were stressed to begin with. The habitat needed for a recovery (like existed in the 80s) may simply not exist in the amounts needed to foster a coast-wide recovery.

I hope I’m wrong.


----------



## karstopo

2,603,095 number of fishing license sales Texas 1989.
2,517,857 number of fishing license sales Texas 1990.
2,253,496 number of fishing license sales Texas 2020.
2,240,922 ” “. “. 2019.



https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_e0100_1144.pdf


After 1983 freeze TP&W did:
“East Matagorda Bay was established as a sanctuary for red drum and spotted seatrout for 120 days following the freeze in December 1983. The purpose of this was to study the recovery of the bay ecosystem with fishing mortality removed following the major fish kills encountered during the freeze.
The Department’s request to the Texas Water Commission resulted in the release of 10,000 acre-feet of water from Lake Texana near Edna, the first-ever release of impounded water in Texas intended solely to benefit an estuarine system.
In response to the freeze-induced fish kill, spotted seatrout minimum length increased from 12 to 14 inches and daily bag limit decreased from 20 to 10 fish. Red drum minimum size was increased to 18 inches and the bag limit reduced to five fish. The maximum length remained unchanged at 30 inches.
Minimum mesh size was increased to 6-inch”

After the 2 1989 freezes TP&W did: 
The Texas coast experienced two cold weather periods (February and December) that caused massive fish kills. About 11 million fishes and 13,000 invertebrates were estimated killed in February and about 6 million fishes and more than 155,000 invertebrates in December. Subsequent TPWD routine sampling revealed spotted seatrout and other finfish populations were reduced. Recreational fishing was adversely affected for several years after the freezes.
Senate Bill 609 passed prohibiting possession of illegal fishing devices on or near Texas waters.
House Bill 1417 passed creating a new mechanism for civil restitution cases designed to strengthen fishing laws and their enforcement.
House Bill 1301 passed prohibiting the sale of wild red drum. This restricts the market for redfish in Texas to only farm-raised red drum.
Regulations were modified to better conserve sharks by establishing a daily limit of five sharks for both sport and commercial fishermen.
Regulations were modified to better conserve billfishes and to conform to federal regulations. Blue marlin minimum length was established at 114 inches. Sailfish minimum length was established at 76 inches. White marlin minimum length was established at 81 inches. No bag limit was established.
Regulations were modified to prohibit use of Top-water trotlines in saltwater and to establish circle hooks as the only hook that can legally be used on saltwater trotlines.
The Texas Shrimp Fishery Management Plan and Economic Impact Statement were adopted by the TP&W Commission. The plan sets management guidelines for the $170 million shrimp industry in Texas.
The Texas legislature directed TPWD to develop the artificial reef potential off Texas for enhancing fishery resources and fishing and diving opportunities.
1990
The Texas Artificial Reef Plan was adopted by the Commission to guide future development and placement of reefs off the Texas coast.
Regions of south Texas centered around the Laguna Madre experienced a dense algal bloom referred to as “brown tide” which lasted in varying degrees of intensity for the next 10 years. This monospecific bloom was caused by a small (4-5 μm diameter) chrysophyte and reduced penetration of sunlight into the waters of the Laguna Madre. Subsequently, some seagrass meadows were impacted and sport fishing activities were disrupted.
Regulations were modified to better conserve spotted seatrout damaged by
25

freezing weather in 1989 by placing a 15- inch minimum size to increase spawning potential.
Regulations on size limits were modified to better conserve gafftopsail catfish (minimum size limit 14 inches, no bag limit) and Florida pompano (minimum size limit 9 inches, no bag limit) for both commercial and recreational fishermen.
Snook size and bag limits were modified to better conserve the species damaged by two freezes in 1989. Minimum length limit was set at 20 inches and maximum length limit was set at 28 inches. Bag limit was set at 3 fish and possession limit at 6 fish.
Exceptions to red snapper size limits were removed to prevent depletion and to conform to federal regulations.
Sharks were defined as game fish making pole and line the only legal means for their capture.
It was made unlawful for any person to use game fish as bait.
Snagging and jerking of fish were better defined to prevent the taking of fish stunned by cold weather.”

Its not like TP&W does nothing after these events.
Numbers of fishing licenses issued in Texas not growing like it may seem. Maybe there’s been a shift to more saltwater activity.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

karstopo said:


> 2,603,095 number of fishing license sales Texas 1989.
> 2,517,857 number of fishing license sales Texas 1990.
> 2,253,496 number of fishing license sales Texas 2020.
> 2,240,922 ” “. “. 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_e0100_1144.pdf
> 
> 
> After 1983 freeze TP&W did:
> “East Matagorda Bay was established as a sanctuary for red drum and spotted seatrout for 120 days following the freeze in December 1983. The purpose of this was to study the recovery of the bay ecosystem with fishing mortality removed following the major fish kills encountered during the freeze.
> The Department’s request to the Texas Water Commission resulted in the release of 10,000 acre-feet of water from Lake Texana near Edna, the first-ever release of impounded water in Texas intended solely to benefit an estuarine system.
> In response to the freeze-induced fish kill, spotted seatrout minimum length increased from 12 to 14 inches and daily bag limit decreased from 20 to 10 fish. Red drum minimum size was increased to 18 inches and the bag limit reduced to five fish. The maximum length remained unchanged at 30 inches.
> Minimum mesh size was increased to 6-inch”
> 
> After the 2 1989 freezes TP&W did:
> The Texas coast experienced two cold weather periods (February and December) that caused massive fish kills. About 11 million fishes and 13,000 invertebrates were estimated killed in February and about 6 million fishes and more than 155,000 invertebrates in December. Subsequent TPWD routine sampling revealed spotted seatrout and other finfish populations were reduced. Recreational fishing was adversely affected for several years after the freezes.
> Senate Bill 609 passed prohibiting possession of illegal fishing devices on or near Texas waters.
> House Bill 1417 passed creating a new mechanism for civil restitution cases designed to strengthen fishing laws and their enforcement.
> House Bill 1301 passed prohibiting the sale of wild red drum. This restricts the market for redfish in Texas to only farm-raised red drum.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve sharks by establishing a daily limit of five sharks for both sport and commercial fishermen.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve billfishes and to conform to federal regulations. Blue marlin minimum length was established at 114 inches. Sailfish minimum length was established at 76 inches. White marlin minimum length was established at 81 inches. No bag limit was established.
> Regulations were modified to prohibit use of Top-water trotlines in saltwater and to establish circle hooks as the only hook that can legally be used on saltwater trotlines.
> The Texas Shrimp Fishery Management Plan and Economic Impact Statement were adopted by the TP&W Commission. The plan sets management guidelines for the $170 million shrimp industry in Texas.
> The Texas legislature directed TPWD to develop the artificial reef potential off Texas for enhancing fishery resources and fishing and diving opportunities.
> 1990
> The Texas Artificial Reef Plan was adopted by the Commission to guide future development and placement of reefs off the Texas coast.
> Regions of south Texas centered around the Laguna Madre experienced a dense algal bloom referred to as “brown tide” which lasted in varying degrees of intensity for the next 10 years. This monospecific bloom was caused by a small (4-5 μm diameter) chrysophyte and reduced penetration of sunlight into the waters of the Laguna Madre. Subsequently, some seagrass meadows were impacted and sport fishing activities were disrupted.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve spotted seatrout damaged by
> 25
> 
> freezing weather in 1989 by placing a 15- inch minimum size to increase spawning potential.
> Regulations on size limits were modified to better conserve gafftopsail catfish (minimum size limit 14 inches, no bag limit) and Florida pompano (minimum size limit 9 inches, no bag limit) for both commercial and recreational fishermen.
> Snook size and bag limits were modified to better conserve the species damaged by two freezes in 1989. Minimum length limit was set at 20 inches and maximum length limit was set at 28 inches. Bag limit was set at 3 fish and possession limit at 6 fish.
> Exceptions to red snapper size limits were removed to prevent depletion and to conform to federal regulations.
> Sharks were defined as game fish making pole and line the only legal means for their capture.
> It was made unlawful for any person to use game fish as bait.
> Snagging and jerking of fish were better defined to prevent the taking of fish stunned by cold weather.”
> 
> Its not like TP&W does nothing after these events.
> Numbers of fishing licenses issued in Texas not growing like it may seem. Maybe there’s been a shift to more saltwater activity.


Thanks for the research and post. 

Maybe a lot of people aren’t buying licenses either...Anyone bank fishing filling five gallon buckets with whatever they can cast net and catch on dead shrimp, squid and rotten mullet from the bank on 80 pound mono with an orange bead double drop rig and tossing all their beer cans and methican dumpster trash on the ground isn’t interested in buying a fishing license and if they do they aren’t scared to break the law and post their illegal catch on FaceBook. I see it and report it all the time. Three or four game wardens per county can’t cover enough area.


----------



## Mark H

jackson man said:


> We have the same issues. Even with the T.I.P. hotline (Turn in poachers), you call in and it might be more than 1 hour before a warden returns your call. Usually by that time, the criminals are long gone! I think that if the word got out that guys were paying 1000's in fines, losing gear, boats, privilages, etc. maybe we could make a dent?


IME when you call in on poachers, the GW's show up late and screw with you, the ones who called in the tip.


----------



## CKEAT

One thing is for sure, boat traffic is way up regardless of fishing licenses. Just a decade ago the amount of shore burners was nowhere near it is now. Not sure how that manifests itself regarding licensing. One question I would have is how statistics were and are gathered. Generally that won’t be the same as in the 80s.

One thing is for sure. We are going to find out.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

CKEAT said:


> One thing is for sure, boat traffic is way up regardless of fishing licenses. Just a decade ago the amount of shore burners was nowhere near it is now. Not sure how that manifests itself regarding licensing. One question I would have is how statistics were and are gathered. Generally that won’t be the same as in the 80s.
> 
> One thing is for sure. We are going to find out.


Freshwater guys have turned to salt more.


----------



## karstopo

https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/FishingLicCertHistory.pdf



Probably are a lot more really shallow running fiberglass boats out there than there used to be. I think back then maybe freshwater got more of the attention and inshore saltwater wasn’t quite as big a thing. But, then the the Limits were way more liberal then, too. 20 speckled trout circa 1983. 10 redfish, with a wider slot.

The Marsh and Bays look pretty much the same to me from back then except more trashy around the bank spots and launches. Seems like the fish have weathered the red tides, droughts, floods, freezes and have always bounced back. I still believe TP&W will act and act fairly soon based on their track record in previous freezes. They could put a catch and release up temporarily, lower the limits, narrow the slot, make croaker a gamefish, they have plenty of options. I imagine the data is still coming in.

We’ve seen the charts and graphs showing the fish population over the years and the trend has been more or less stable in the last decade and the numbers have been strong. Downward blips for 1-2 years after a big freeze, then it comes back up. Everytime something has hit the fish hard, TP&W has acted and the fish population trend gets back to stable and strong. 

My buddy that fishes East Matagorda Bay a lot said there were some previous down years there, but the bay came back and the last few years have been strong. I’ve been out there with him and the fishing has been good. Lots of trout. The few times I’ve been in West Matagorda Bay down around the Airport and Greens in the last decade the fishing has been good, good numbers of trout, reds, flounder. From Cedar Lakes to San Luis Pass there’s been plenty of fish over the decades, I just don’t see this general coastwide long term decline in the fishery that is being talked about and it isn’t in the TP&W long term survey data. Some bays and areas might be doing better than others, but hasn’t it always been like that?


----------



## Smackdaddy53

karstopo said:


> https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/FishingLicCertHistory.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Probably are a lot more really shallow running fiberglass boats out there than there used to be. I think back then maybe freshwater got more of the attention and inshore saltwater wasn’t quite as big a thing. But, then the the Limits were way more liberal then, too. 20 speckled trout circa 1983. 10 redfish, with a wider slot.
> 
> The Marsh and Bays look pretty much the same to me from back then except more trashy around the bank spots and launches. Seems like the fish have weathered the red tides, droughts, floods, freezes and have always bounced back. I still believe TP&W will act and act fairly soon based on their track record in previous freezes. They could put a catch and release up temporarily, lower the limits, narrow the slot, make croaker a gamefish, they have plenty of options. I imagine the data is still coming in.
> 
> We’ve seen the charts and graphs showing the fish population over the years and the trend has been more or less stable in the last decade and the numbers have been strong. Downward blips for 1-2 years after a big freeze, then it comes back up. Everytime something has hit the fish hard, TP&W has acted and the fish population trend gets back to stable and strong.
> 
> My buddy that fishes East Matagorda Bay a lot said there were some previous down years there, but the bay came back and the last few years have been strong. I’ve been out there with him and the fishing has been good. Lots of trout. The few times I’ve been in West Matagorda Bay down around the Airport and Greens in the last decade the fishing has been good, good numbers of trout, reds, flounder. From Cedar Lakes to San Luis Pass there’s been plenty of fish over the decades, I just don’t see this general coastwide long term decline in the fishery that is being talked about and it isn’t in the TP&W long term survey data. Some bays and areas might be doing better than others, but hasn’t it always been like that?


I don’t need charts, graphs and gill net surveys (what the hell are they still doing this for?) and organizations to tell me what the fishery is like. I can promise you it is no where near what it was in the 80’s and 90’s, even early 2000’s anywhere on the coast. 
Data is nice and I commend them for what they do but their methods are ancient. With the technology we have today there is absolutely no reason to set gill nets all over the bay to kill fish for research. Side and down scan imaging these days will pick up everything and you can see a lure in the water and the profile of a fish so well you can determine species and relative size.
Tournament format should change, enough killing piles of fish and some trophy sized fish for money. Even the live weigh in tournaments have many drawbacks. Myself and others have tried to pull off tournaments with several weigh masters that hang out in different areas of the tournament and anglers ping them to come weigh and measure fish in person so they can be released very soon after catching them and they will go right back in the area they came out of. Hauling trophy trout twenty or thirty miles to a weigh in and then dropping them in the nearest boat ramp so dolphins can eat them is not a lucrative approach. Fish need to be released where they came from. I have covered all this and much more over the years but I think it has fallen on deaf ears. Bottom line is we all have to improve our approach to the conservation of our fisheries and do not back down from people that puff up when you even mention conservation. There will always be these types but if they get hammered enough they may just change. I have seen the worst kill tournament fishing meat haulers and trophy breeder speckled trout killers do a full 180 and go to 100% catch and release or giving customers incentives to release fish on guided trips. We have the empty stringers program here, it’s pretty neat.


----------



## rvd

karstopo said:


> 2,603,095 number of fishing license sales Texas 1989.
> 2,517,857 number of fishing license sales Texas 1990.
> 2,253,496 number of fishing license sales Texas 2020.
> 2,240,922 ” “. “. 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_e0100_1144.pdf
> 
> 
> After 1983 freeze TP&W did:
> “East Matagorda Bay was established as a sanctuary for red drum and spotted seatrout for 120 days following the freeze in December 1983. The purpose of this was to study the recovery of the bay ecosystem with fishing mortality removed following the major fish kills encountered during the freeze.
> The Department’s request to the Texas Water Commission resulted in the release of 10,000 acre-feet of water from Lake Texana near Edna, the first-ever release of impounded water in Texas intended solely to benefit an estuarine system.
> In response to the freeze-induced fish kill, spotted seatrout minimum length increased from 12 to 14 inches and daily bag limit decreased from 20 to 10 fish. Red drum minimum size was increased to 18 inches and the bag limit reduced to five fish. The maximum length remained unchanged at 30 inches.
> Minimum mesh size was increased to 6-inch”
> 
> After the 2 1989 freezes TP&W did:
> The Texas coast experienced two cold weather periods (February and December) that caused massive fish kills. About 11 million fishes and 13,000 invertebrates were estimated killed in February and about 6 million fishes and more than 155,000 invertebrates in December. Subsequent TPWD routine sampling revealed spotted seatrout and other finfish populations were reduced. Recreational fishing was adversely affected for several years after the freezes.
> Senate Bill 609 passed prohibiting possession of illegal fishing devices on or near Texas waters.
> House Bill 1417 passed creating a new mechanism for civil restitution cases designed to strengthen fishing laws and their enforcement.
> House Bill 1301 passed prohibiting the sale of wild red drum. This restricts the market for redfish in Texas to only farm-raised red drum.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve sharks by establishing a daily limit of five sharks for both sport and commercial fishermen.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve billfishes and to conform to federal regulations. Blue marlin minimum length was established at 114 inches. Sailfish minimum length was established at 76 inches. White marlin minimum length was established at 81 inches. No bag limit was established.
> Regulations were modified to prohibit use of Top-water trotlines in saltwater and to establish circle hooks as the only hook that can legally be used on saltwater trotlines.
> The Texas Shrimp Fishery Management Plan and Economic Impact Statement were adopted by the TP&W Commission. The plan sets management guidelines for the $170 million shrimp industry in Texas.
> The Texas legislature directed TPWD to develop the artificial reef potential off Texas for enhancing fishery resources and fishing and diving opportunities.
> 1990
> The Texas Artificial Reef Plan was adopted by the Commission to guide future development and placement of reefs off the Texas coast.
> Regions of south Texas centered around the Laguna Madre experienced a dense algal bloom referred to as “brown tide” which lasted in varying degrees of intensity for the next 10 years. This monospecific bloom was caused by a small (4-5 μm diameter) chrysophyte and reduced penetration of sunlight into the waters of the Laguna Madre. Subsequently, some seagrass meadows were impacted and sport fishing activities were disrupted.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve spotted seatrout damaged by
> 25
> 
> freezing weather in 1989 by placing a 15- inch minimum size to increase spawning potential.
> Regulations on size limits were modified to better conserve gafftopsail catfish (minimum size limit 14 inches, no bag limit) and Florida pompano (minimum size limit 9 inches, no bag limit) for both commercial and recreational fishermen.
> Snook size and bag limits were modified to better conserve the species damaged by two freezes in 1989. Minimum length limit was set at 20 inches and maximum length limit was set at 28 inches. Bag limit was set at 3 fish and possession limit at 6 fish.
> Exceptions to red snapper size limits were removed to prevent depletion and to conform to federal regulations.
> Sharks were defined as game fish making pole and line the only legal means for their capture.
> It was made unlawful for any person to use game fish as bait.
> Snagging and jerking of fish were better defined to prevent the taking of fish stunned by cold weather.”
> 
> Its not like TP&W does nothing after these events.
> Numbers of fishing licenses issued in Texas not growing like it may seem. Maybe there’s been a shift to more saltwater activity.





Smackdaddy53 said:


> When you bring up culture it makes it sound like everyone here meat hauls and kills big trout which is not the case. It’s a lot of people’s mentality but I wouldn’t go so far as state that it’s our culture here on the Texas coast. You also have to consider the audience was a bunch of guys on a forum kind of like this one but a lot more googans.





Smackdaddy53 said:


> I don’t need charts, graphs and gill net surveys (what the hell are they still doing this for?) and organizations to tell me what the fishery is like. I can promise you it is no where near what it was in the 80’s and 90’s, even early 2000’s anywhere on the coast.
> Data is nice and I commend them for what they do but their methods are ancient. With the technology we have today there is absolutely no reason to set gill nets all over the bay to kill fish for research. Side and down scan imaging these days will pick up everything and you can see a lure in the water and the profile of a fish so well you can determine species and relative size.
> Tournament format should change, enough killing piles of fish and some trophy sized fish for money. Even the live weigh in tournaments have many drawbacks. Myself and others have tried to pull off tournaments with several weigh masters that hang out in different areas of the tournament and anglers ping them to come weigh and measure fish in person so they can be released very soon after catching them and they will go right back in the area they came out of. Hauling trophy trout twenty or thirty miles to a weigh in and then dropping them in the nearest boat ramp so dolphins can eat them is not a lucrative approach. Fish need to be released where they came from. I have covered all this and much more over the years but I think it has fallen on deaf ears. Bottom line is we all have to improve our approach to the conservation of our fisheries and do not back down from people that puff up when you even mention conservation. There will always be these types but if they get hammered enough they may just change. I have seen the worst kill tournament fishing meat haulers and trophy breeder speckled trout killers do a full 180 and go to 100% catch and release or giving customers incentives to release fish on guided trips. We have the empty stringers program here, it’s pretty neat.


I agree Smack. We're pretty close to the same age and have grown up fishing some of the same waters (since childhood for me the mouth of the San Bernard to Baffin). Change in general is slow and whether you agree or not our culture in Texas for the most part is to "get my limit". Changing culture is the slowest of changes, Drucker's saying that "culture eats strategy for breakfast" is an absolute truth. That does not mean that strategy is not important but I do think we have to acknowledge that we are dealing with a culture that needs to change and that we need to start looking for ways to do that, even if it's incremental. This freeze has been a catalyst for the discussion and I'm game to be a part of some solutions that "we" think up. 

I really want my 7 month old grandaughter to get to experience a lot of the same things I've experienced on these waters and I'm of the opinion that will not happen without some effort by those of us that are here now.


----------



## jay.bush1434

Just a quick side note from some really good discussion; just went out on my deck and am beginning to see some dead fish floating in my canal. I can also see a couple dead fish on the bottom in my boat slip. Other neighbors reporting some dead fish floating as well. Generally the canals where I live are pretty deep, mine is really deep and is usually a bait fish nursery. So far though, all the fish I've seen and the neighbors pictures are mullet. Let's hope that at least some part of the Texas coast was spared from a major fish kill.


----------



## Sublime

jay.bush1434 said:


> Just a quick side note from some really good discussion; just went out on my deck and am beginning to see some dead fish floating in my canal. I can also see a couple dead fish on the bottom in my boat slip. Other neighbors reporting some dead fish floating as well. Generally the canals where I live are pretty deep, mine is really deep and is usually a bait fish nursery. So far though, all the fish I've seen and the neighbors pictures are mullet. Let's hope that at least some part of the Texas coast was spared from a major fish kill.



The mullet. Still gets no love.


----------



## MatthewAbbott

Took the plastic boat out today (too windy for the dingy) to check on some spots that were holding fish pre-freeze. Nothing overly dramatic where I looked. Some mullet and a smaller sheepie. I did, however, have a boat run the channel I was in stop and ask if I seen any floaters. He said the diversionary had a pretty decent kill. 1000+ with some nice sized trout.


----------



## Kayak2020

dbrady784 said:


> So I’m sure everyone has seen what is going on in Texas right now. If you haven’t you should do a little research . Some areas that may have been a world class fishery have been decimated. With that being said I’ve seen on other forums the talk of reeasing trout of 21”. Do you think this is the right way to go? Should the completely shut it down to catch and release like the west coast of Florida did during the red tide fish kills?


Being a South Texan and knowing the coastal area I think it would be advantageous to do a 6months catch and release period


----------



## ShannonD

*Obviously* this is a pretty darn good thread, and at such an important time to raise Texas' awareness and our own personal awareness. I do see a little geographic bias creeping in - based on all those (the *majority*) bad stories of stringers and tournaments - but there has been a *vocal minority *of us that preach the gospel of CPR, and no kill tournaments and fewer tournaments (good luck with that one) for decades.
Free enterprise says quite clearly: Tournaments good. Tournaments sell product. More tournaments, more sales. While there are some misconceptions about Texas, one truism is that the *majority* does not want government stepping in on their fun and profits. I DO THINK the State could regulate the methods tournaments use, with great abuse expected, but as for the sheer number? never happen. 
The problems are now obvious, the solutions not so much so. I still am not aware of just how bad this freeze was (on the Coast), but like so many things in the USA, our attention spans are short just like newscaster's, and we can expect those "Chamber of Commerce" reports from the coast to start coming quick and overshadowing the actual story.


----------



## Sublime

I saw a video of a guy idling a boat across a flat in the days after the worst temps.. He was amazed at not only the dead fish but the live fish sunning themselves. %$^#&()$)! dude. Could you not just left them alone? Instead you made them expend energy and scattered them all to hell so you could could get your dopamine hit when you got back to the house and posted it in social media.


----------



## 32838

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’ve had guys want to fight on the water after they burned a shoreline I was poling and I ran past them, cut them off and politely educated them. I don’t think these guys know what assholes some of these inconsiderate pricks are. They know they are doing something wrong and will tell you that you don’t own the water. It’s amazing what people are like these days. When I was growing up my dad would have done more than talk to them but this is a different age of blatant, trashy people.
> I don’t know if you see it anywhere else but some of these idiots have “burn bars” fabricated that bolt to their center consoles and they stand on top of the console, lean on the burn bar and drive with their feet while burning flats looking for redfish. Here’s one of the jackasses...


Just a shaky observation but the guy driving the bay burner doesn’t seem to be wearing a lanyard with a kill switch,
mandatory in Texas.


----------



## dbrady784

Sublime said:


> I saw a video of a guy idling a boat across a flat in the days after the worst temps.. He was amazed at not only the dead fish but the live fish sunning themselves. %$^#&()$)! dude. Could you not just left them alone? Instead you made them expend energy and scattered them all to hell so you could could get your dopamine hit when you got back to the house and posted it in social media.


We’re on the same wavelength in terms of thought process, but you’ll have those people trying to say they are “helping” by taking account of the fish.


----------



## sjrobin

karstopo said:


> 2,603,095 number of fishing license sales Texas 1989.
> 2,517,857 number of fishing license sales Texas 1990.
> 2,253,496 number of fishing license sales Texas 2020.
> 2,240,922 ” “. “. 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_e0100_1144.pdf
> 
> 
> After 1983 freeze TP&W did:
> “East Matagorda Bay was established as a sanctuary for red drum and spotted seatrout for 120 days following the freeze in December 1983. The purpose of this was to study the recovery of the bay ecosystem with fishing mortality removed following the major fish kills encountered during the freeze.
> The Department’s request to the Texas Water Commission resulted in the release of 10,000 acre-feet of water from Lake Texana near Edna, the first-ever release of impounded water in Texas intended solely to benefit an estuarine system.
> In response to the freeze-induced fish kill, spotted seatrout minimum length increased from 12 to 14 inches and daily bag limit decreased from 20 to 10 fish. Red drum minimum size was increased to 18 inches and the bag limit reduced to five fish. The maximum length remained unchanged at 30 inches.
> Minimum mesh size was increased to 6-inch”
> 
> After the 2 1989 freezes TP&W did:
> The Texas coast experienced two cold weather periods (February and December) that caused massive fish kills. About 11 million fishes and 13,000 invertebrates were estimated killed in February and about 6 million fishes and more than 155,000 invertebrates in December. Subsequent TPWD routine sampling revealed spotted seatrout and other finfish populations were reduced. Recreational fishing was adversely affected for several years after the freezes.
> Senate Bill 609 passed prohibiting possession of illegal fishing devices on or near Texas waters.
> House Bill 1417 passed creating a new mechanism for civil restitution cases designed to strengthen fishing laws and their enforcement.
> House Bill 1301 passed prohibiting the sale of wild red drum. This restricts the market for redfish in Texas to only farm-raised red drum.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve sharks by establishing a daily limit of five sharks for both sport and commercial fishermen.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve billfishes and to conform to federal regulations. Blue marlin minimum length was established at 114 inches. Sailfish minimum length was established at 76 inches. White marlin minimum length was established at 81 inches. No bag limit was established.
> Regulations were modified to prohibit use of Top-water trotlines in saltwater and to establish circle hooks as the only hook that can legally be used on saltwater trotlines.
> The Texas Shrimp Fishery Management Plan and Economic Impact Statement were adopted by the TP&W Commission. The plan sets management guidelines for the $170 million shrimp industry in Texas.
> The Texas legislature directed TPWD to develop the artificial reef potential off Texas for enhancing fishery resources and fishing and diving opportunities.
> 1990
> The Texas Artificial Reef Plan was adopted by the Commission to guide future development and placement of reefs off the Texas coast.
> Regions of south Texas centered around the Laguna Madre experienced a dense algal bloom referred to as “brown tide” which lasted in varying degrees of intensity for the next 10 years. This monospecific bloom was caused by a small (4-5 μm diameter) chrysophyte and reduced penetration of sunlight into the waters of the Laguna Madre. Subsequently, some seagrass meadows were impacted and sport fishing activities were disrupted.
> Regulations were modified to better conserve spotted seatrout damaged by
> 25
> 
> freezing weather in 1989 by placing a 15- inch minimum size to increase spawning potential.
> Regulations on size limits were modified to better conserve gafftopsail catfish (minimum size limit 14 inches, no bag limit) and Florida pompano (minimum size limit 9 inches, no bag limit) for both commercial and recreational fishermen.
> Snook size and bag limits were modified to better conserve the species damaged by two freezes in 1989. Minimum length limit was set at 20 inches and maximum length limit was set at 28 inches. Bag limit was set at 3 fish and possession limit at 6 fish.
> Exceptions to red snapper size limits were removed to prevent depletion and to conform to federal regulations.
> Sharks were defined as game fish making pole and line the only legal means for their capture.
> It was made unlawful for any person to use game fish as bait.
> Snagging and jerking of fish were better defined to prevent the taking of fish stunned by cold weather.”
> 
> Its not like TP&W does nothing after these events.
> Numbers of fishing licenses issued in Texas not growing like it may seem. Maybe there’s been a shift to more saltwater activity.


The difference in marine recovery rate from events like these versus the past is exponential loss of habitat the last fifty years or so. For example, I witnessed West Galveston Bay transform from mainly a live oyster reef estuary with a lot of spartina marsh to very few oyster reefs and sea grasses with far fewer spartina marshes over the past forty years. The change the last five years or so is rapidly moving to even less sea grasses and spartina as base line water levels continue to increase, block sunlight, and along with unusual NE wind gusts driving destructive waves and a very warm series of winters are changing or destroying estuaries. Those forces acting together are taking a toll on the quality all Texas bays and estuaries. In other words the recovery time will be much slower. And many more people use Texas bays now than even ten years ago with better boats and fishing technology. Texas boat registration over time would be a better indicator than license sales. This event will test what whether people really care about the long term health of the coastal zone enough to take action. Likely will not happen.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Captainbob said:


> Just a shaky observation but the guy driving the bay burner doesn’t seem to be wearing a lanyard with a kill switch,
> mandatory in Texas.


That video is six years old and the business is no more...imagine that. He got flamed for his videos non stop too...I may or may not have been one of the people giving him hell about it. Ignorant as hell!


----------



## Snakesurf

sjrobin said:


> The difference in marine recovery rate from events like these versus the past is exponential loss of habitat the last fifty years or so. For example, I witnessed West Galveston Bay transform from mainly a live oyster reef estuary with a lot of spartina marsh to very few oyster reefs and sea grasses with far fewer spartina marshes over the past forty years. The change the last five years or so is rapidly moving to even less sea grasses and spartina as base line water levels continue to increase, block sunlight, and along with unusual NE wind gusts driving destructive waves and a very warm series of winters are changing or destroying estuaries. Those forces acting together are taking a toll on the quality all Texas bays and estuaries. In other words the recovery time will be much slower. And many more people use Texas bays now than even ten years ago with better boats and fishing technology. Texas boat registration over time would be a better indicator than license sales. This event will test what whether people really care about the long term health of the coastal zone enough to take action. Likely will not happen.


They closed Rollover Pass so we will see if more fresh water will help in that area. In 2000 till about 2012 we had some very dry years with a lot of solar flares so a lot of saltwater made its way up into the rivers and bayous without much freshwater coming in. After 2016 up until last year NE wind also filled the bays with a lot of saltwater even though we had rain and flooding during that period, the fresh water did not stay in the bays due to being pushed out by south and southwest winds then the return of strong east and northeast winds filling the bays back with saltwater. It appears we are going into a solar minimum and that there will be more cooling in the atmosphere with more rain happening. I have noticed that the currents in the gulf are different than the previous decade, I have not seen the usual amount of seaweed on the beaches in recent years as in the past. There are some definite changes and we will have to see if it helps our current situation. I do not believe in man made global warming, but I do believe solar cycles and the earth's axial shifts effect our weather and Co2 production. I also know that if we kill our oceans, we kill the planet.


----------



## Steve_Mevers

Sublime said:


> I'm not sure about any "world class fisheries" in existence here in Texas before the freeze. In my experience, the fishing is nowhere near as good as it was when I started fly fishing the upper middle coast in 2007. I guess it all depends on one's frame of reference. I started saltwater fishing in the 1980s. I've seen a lot of cycles. Some coastal counties are predicted to double in population over the next 10-15 years. What will that do to the fishery?


So many people in Florida, mainly transplants, say how great the fishing is, they just don’t know how great it was. They keep lowering the bar for what a great fishery is.


----------



## dbrady784

Steve_Mevers said:


> So many people in Florida, mainly transplants, say how great the fishing is, they just don’t know how great it was. They keep lowering the bar for what a great fishery is.


Everything is all relative. Not disagreeing with you, but just saying it’s all in a relative perspective. I’m sure the locals to “insert tropical destination here” would say they same thing when you go there.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Steve_Mevers said:


> So many people in Florida, mainly transplants, say how great the fishing is, they just don’t know how great it was. They keep lowering the bar for what a great fishery is.


Same for Texas. I’m sure some of you older guys you knew what the 60’s and 70’s were like but even the 80’s and 90’s were stellar here compared to the 2000’s. Fishing became a fad and now there is a ton of fluff.


----------



## Steve_Mevers

dbrady784 said:


> Everything is all relative. Not disagreeing with you, but just saying it’s all in a relative perspective. I’m sure the locals to “insert tropical destination here” would say they same thing when you go there.


It is all relative in the individuals perspective, I agree. But the state biologist who studies and makes recommendations for fishery management must base their recommendations on historical facts and not on the current perspective of uninformed individuals. I understand that the fisheries may never be as good as they were years ago, but our goal ought to be make them as healthy as possible.


----------



## Steve_Mevers

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Same for Texas. I’m sure some of you older guys you knew what the 60’s and 70’s were like but even the 80’s and 90’s were stellar here compared to the 2000’s. Fishing became a fad and now there is a ton of fluff.


yep


----------



## Sublime

CCA Texas Star tournament has announced Speckled trout, Flounder and Sheepshead have been removed from the tournament. The 2021 STAR will feature "three different Tagged Redfish Divisions utilizing a mandatory release format".

Sounds good to me. Now why not keep this change PERMANENTLY.


----------



## Permit.Me

Steve_Mevers said:


> So many people in Florida, mainly transplants, say how great the fishing is, they just don’t know how great it was. They keep lowering the bar for what a great fishery is.


Yeah, but I'll bet that the Tarpon, Snook, Permit, Redfish, Bonefish fishing is still better than it was for them in Jersey! I don't think that "they are lowering the bar", I think that the "bar" is lowering for any number of reasons (over-development of the coastline, water issues, over harvesting, climate change, etc.).


----------



## Steve_Mevers

Permit.Me said:


> Yeah, but I'll bet that the Tarpon, Snook, Permit, Redfish, Bonefish fishing is still better than it was for them in Jersey! I don't think that "they are lowering the bar", I think that the "bar" is lowering for any number of reasons (over-development of the coastline, water issues, over harvesting, climate change, etc.).


I agree 100% with you as to why the fishery is declining, all I am saying is just don't reset the bar and say the fishery is great shape. That is what is happening right now in SW Florida, the FWC Commission is debating to extend a closure on redfish, snook and trout for another year and there are those that are saying the fishery is in great shape when really it is not.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> CCA Texas Star tournament has announced Speckled trout, Flounder and Sheepshead have been removed from the tournament. The 2021 STAR will feature "three different Tagged Redfish Divisions utilizing a mandatory release format".
> 
> Sounds good to me. Now why not keep this change PERMANENTLY.


That’s too much to ask for but I agree!


----------



## Smackdaddy53




----------



## CKEAT

They will just hammer the redfish now, whatever people can F Up, they will.


----------



## dbrady784

how about a catfish division like they have for the youth


----------



## karstopo

The CCA STAR redfish division is a mandatory release, how does that mess up the redfish? You against catch and release too?


----------



## Smackdaddy53

karstopo said:


> The CCA STAR redfish division is a mandatory release, how does that mess up the redfish? You against catch and release too?


Who are you replying to?


----------



## karstopo

CKEAT, post #115


----------



## Smackdaddy53

karstopo said:


> CKEAT, post #115


He wasn’t referring to the STAR tournament. He and I discussed this the other day. We realize that now the bays seem to have taken a hit after the freeze so the jetties and surf are going to be targeted more by meat haulers. It’s already happening right now. Guides are talking amongst themselves and “word on the street” is a lot of redfish moved out to the passes and jetties so now guides are stacking up there meat hauling in blatant disregard for the fish kill we just had last week. Is it legal? Yes. Is it right? No.
Just wait until croaker season starts, the surf will be raped.


----------



## MatthewAbbott

Smackdaddy53 said:


> He wasn’t referring to the STAR tournament. He and I discussed this the other day. We realize that now the bays seem to have taken a hit after the freeze so the jetties and surf are going to be targeted more by meat haulers. It’s already happening right now. Guides are talking amongst themselves and “word on the street” is a lot of redfish moved out to the passes and jetties so now guides are stacking up there meat hauling in blatant disregard for the fish kill we just had last week. Is it legal? Yes. Is it right? No.
> Just wait until croaker season starts, the surf will be raped.


Same thing when they lowered the trout limit to five.


----------



## karstopo

Post #114 was about the CCA STAR dropping trout, sheepshead, and flounder and going to C&R on redfish, post #115 was “They will just hammer the redfish now, whatever people can F Up, they will.” I was looking for clarity on who is “They”.

Some of the guides are preaching C&R all the way around, don’t know it that will be what actually transpires. I wonder how many guides actually work the Texas coast? Anyone have any kind of figure?

My cousin is an obligate croaker soaker. If there aren’t any croaker to be had, he ain’t fishing. He murders the trout in the surf on Croaker, but, thankfully, doesn’t fish all that often. It is about the meat for him or so he will tell you, but it is odd because he isn’t hurting at all financially and could buy whatever fish he wanted anytime. I’ve never fished with croaker, but I do like catching them so I’d be all for them becoming a gamefish.

How much resistance to making croaker a gamefish would there be post freeze kill?


----------



## Sublime

karstopo said:


> I wonder how many guides actually work the Texas coast? Anyone have any kind of figure?


Latest count was 2,372,104.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

karstopo said:


> Post #114 was about the CCA STAR dropping trout, sheepshead, and flounder and going to C&R on redfish, post #115 was “They will just hammer the redfish now, whatever people can F Up, they will.” I was looking for clarity on who is “They”.
> 
> He was referring to previous posts about meat haulers so the answer is meat haulers.
> 
> Some of the guides are preaching C&R all the way around, don’t know it that will be what actually transpires. I wonder how many guides actually work the Texas coast? Anyone have any kind of figure?
> 
> I have no idea but if I could guesstimate I’d say 90% of them are meat hauling guides that have clients that won’t hire them if they can’t keep a box full of fish.
> 
> 
> My cousin is an obligate croaker soaker. If there aren’t any croaker to be had, he ain’t fishing. He murders the trout in the surf on Croaker, but, thankfully, doesn’t fish all that often. It is about the meat for him or so he will tell you, but it is odd because he isn’t hurting at all financially and could buy whatever fish he wanted anytime. I’ve never fished with croaker, but I do like catching them so I’d be all for them becoming a gamefish.
> 
> Me too. Lots of people would find another summer hobby if they couldn’t buy several dozen croaker every trip from April to August.
> 
> How much resistance to making croaker a gamefish would there be post freeze kill?
> 
> Probably a lot of resistance. Lots of these guides are seasonal and only fish during croaker season as well as a lot of clients and a ton of people running their own boats. People are generally scared that TPWD will start limiting other methods of fishing once they take away croaker. I’ve talked with a lot of people about it and as soon as I mention making croaker a gamefish they puff up and start getting pissy.
> 
> I know for a fact there are at least three guides that said they were going to catch an release for a while after this freeze and just this weekend were out at the jetties filling five man limits of redfish on live shrimp. Sadly a couple of them are buddies of mine and it’s caused some issues already.


----------



## CKEAT

What I meant was, if pressure exponentially increases on redfish. None of that equals more tailing fish. Pressure has ruined these type of fisheries in many areas. I did not say it was illegal. I said they would F it up. Most of this traffic is large outboard engines on shore burners and just makes the fishing suck in these areas regarding the long rod. 

Also, meat haulers as smack mentioned will target redfish more often. All around redfish will get hammered, no way around it. Unless the folks targeting trout stop fishing and don't switch targets.

I agree, croaker needs to be a gamefish, period (IMO).


----------



## karstopo

The thing about eliminating croaker as bait isn’t saying to anyone that you can’t become a guide, still be a guide or go fish as much as you want, it’s not like that at all. So, if the people against making croaker a gamefish are saying the state is taking away their right to a livelihood or their right to fish, that is most definitely false. Would anyone argue that making Croaker a gamefish could somehow hurt the trout? No, they couldn’t. Shouldn’t it only help the trout since croaker are responsible for many thousands of fish being harvested ever year. So if guides and fishermen wish to help a fish in need, then why wouldn’t they be for making croaker a gamefish? How can anyone say they are for helping the trout numbers recover and still want Croaker to be allowed as bait? How do they wiggle out of that trap?


----------



## Smackdaddy53

karstopo said:


> The thing about eliminating croaker as bait isn’t saying to anyone that you can’t become a guide, still be a guide or go fish as much as you want, it’s not like that at all. So, if the people against making croaker a gamefish are saying the state is taking away their right to a livelihood or their right to fish, that is most definitely false. Would anyone argue that making Croaker a gamefish could somehow hurt the trout? No, they couldn’t. Shouldn’t it only help the trout since croaker are responsible for many thousands of fish being harvested ever year. So if guides and fishermen wish to help a fish in need, then why wouldn’t they be for making croaker a gamefish? How can anyone say they are for helping the trout numbers recover and still want Croaker to be allowed as bait? How do they wiggle out of that trap?


You’re asking a bunch of people that probably don’t chunk croaker. Go to just about any Saturday tournament on the coast this summer and ask these questions.


----------



## Sublime

Work 
Retire
Buy a house on the coast
Become a guide
Take your boat off your taxes
Take your truck off your taxes
Soak Croaker
Take croaker off your taxes
Murica


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> Work
> Retire
> Buy a house on the coast
> Become a guide
> Take your boat off your taxes
> Take your truck off your taxes
> Soak Croaker
> Take croaker off your taxes
> Murica


There’s a lot of us singling out guides but the average weekend warriors do their damage too believe me!


----------



## MatthewAbbott

karstopo said:


> The thing about eliminating croaker as bait isn’t saying to anyone that you can’t become a guide, still be a guide or go fish as much as you want, it’s not like that at all. So, if the people against making croaker a gamefish are saying the state is taking away their right to a livelihood or their right to fish, that is most definitely false. Would anyone argue that making Croaker a gamefish could somehow hurt the trout? No, they couldn’t. Shouldn’t it only help the trout since croaker are responsible for many thousands of fish being harvested ever year. So if guides and fishermen wish to help a fish in need, then why wouldn’t they be for making croaker a gamefish? How can anyone say they are for helping the trout numbers recover and still want Croaker to be allowed as bait? How do they wiggle out of that trap?


I don’t think trout numbers is a good argument for placing croaker on the gamefish list. Not for the main case anyways. Declining croaker numbers to to be the cause. Croaker will never be gamefish based off how well they work for trout.


----------



## Sublime

Smackdaddy53 said:


> There’s a lot of us singling out guides but the average weekend warriors do their damage too believe me!



I don't know how it is these days, but I had a friend that became a croaker soaking guide and the bait stand would set aside croaker for him and other guides. John Q Public Croaker Soaker got whatever was left.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> I don't know how it is these days, but I had a friend that became a croaker soaking guide and the bait stand would set aside croaker for him and other guides. John Q Public Croaker Soaker got whatever was left.


Common practice, they’ve been doing that since croaker slinging rattle rigs became the coolest thing to do in summer.


----------



## karstopo

Sublime said:


> Work
> Retire
> Buy a house on the coast
> Become a guide
> Take your boat off your taxes
> Take your truck off your taxes
> Soak Croaker
> Take croaker off your taxes
> Murica


I guess so. I don’t like fishing with random strangers or hitting up bait stands so this route is no good to me.


----------



## rvd

Sublime said:


> Work
> Retire
> Buy a house on the coast
> Become a guide
> Take your boat off your taxes
> Take your truck off your taxes
> Soak Croaker
> Take croaker off your taxes
> Murica


Truth but let’s not start talking bad about people writing things off their taxes 😎


----------



## rvd

MatthewAbbott said:


> I don’t think trout numbers is a good argument for placing croaker on the gamefish list. Not for the main case anyways. Declining croaker numbers to to be the cause. Croaker will never be gamefish based off how well they work for trout.


I do wish some of the conservation groups would get inspired about making croakers gamefish, the freeze would be a good primer for it.


----------



## MatthewAbbott

rvd said:


> I do wish some of the conservation groups would get inspired about making croakers gamefish, the freeze would be a good primer for it.


I agree and I would too.


----------



## Smackdaddy53




----------



## Permit.Me

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Looks like it's still too early for any definitive info to be passed on to the public with regards to the fish- kill from the freeze. That zoom was pretty much limited to discussions about crabs, red snapper, and catfish in freshwater. I guess everyone will just have to sit tight and wait for some more research and discovery.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

I know what it is about, I watched it. I won’t post things I don’t watch, I’m not a liberal. They discuss it in the last five minutes.


----------



## Permit.Me

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I know what it is about, I watched it. I won’t post things I don’t watch, I’m not a liberal. They discuss it in the last five minutes.


I watched it also. I realize that they said that there'd be more info to come. I just noticed that the text that I used to reply to your post did not transfer to my response. I mentioned that the zoom seemed to be more of an update on crab, red snapper, and freshwater catfish proposals. Information pertaining to fish kills and the effects of the freeze forthcoming.


----------



## Permit.Me

Smackdaddy53 said:


>





Smackdaddy53 said:


> I know what it is about, I watched it. I won’t post things I don’t watch, I’m not a liberal. They discuss it in the last five minutes. I 've got a question for you as I'm fairly new here. When I posted a response to your video post and thought that my text didn't post (I now realize that you need to "click to expand") what did you think that I was saying to you or implying? You kinda seemed a bit gruff with your reply to me.


----------



## Backcountry 16

fishicaltherapist said:


> Texas was a DISASTER in the late 70's/early 80's & the conservation measures enacted, turned the tables & the Salt fishery exploded to the positive side. I agree that MANY people want all they can get no matter what however, by everyone possible going to CPR, a 1-2 year TOTAL closure on game fish, the fishery should rebound successfully, barring any more disasters. What will SEVERELY curtail the law breakers is BIG fines instead of wrist slaps & second offenses receiving 30 days, $1000 fine, & 5 years loss of fishing privileges, 3rd offense 90 days jail, $5000 fine, & lifetime fishing ban. Before some of you start screaming, please think, " Short term pain for Long term gain !!! " The closure in Florida has been a fantastic success story & fishing should remain great IF, folks don't get GREEDY !!!!


In Florida they'll take your boat and truck if you're really aggreciius in keeping illegal fish and get caught. 
The way thru inter peace 
Is thru catch and release and old wise man once told me.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Backcountry 16 said:


> In Florida they'll take your boat and truck if you're really aggreciius in keeping illegal fish and get caught.
> The way thru inter peace
> Is thru catch and release and old wise man once told me.


TPWD will do the same here. You get hit with a ridiculous number of illegal fish and they will strip you of your boat and gear. I like it!


----------



## Permit.Me

Backcountry 16 said:


> In Florida they'll take your boat and truck if you're really aggreciius in keeping illegal fish and get caught.
> The way thru inter peace
> Is thru catch and release and old wise man once told me.


I think that's the only way to hit them where it hurts! Fines alone just aren't enough!


----------



## Backcountry 16

Permit.Me said:


> I think that's the only way to hit them where it hurts! Fines alone just aren't enough!


Agred I am all for it. You rape the resources you pay.


----------



## robbiewall

initial report is out:

News Release: March 10, 2021: At least 3.8 Million Fish Killed by Winter Weather on Texas Coast - TPWD

"3.8 million fish... Recreationally important game species accounted for the other 9% of the total. Of that 9%, the dominant species included Spotted Seatrout (48%), Black Drum (31%), Sheepshead (8%), Sand Seatrout (7%), Red Drum (3%), Gray Snapper (2%), and Red Snapper (<1%).

Both the Upper and Lower Laguna Madre bay systems were hit particularly hard by this event.

The Lower Laguna Madre had the highest mortality of Spotted Seatrout with an estimated 104,000 fish killed. That comprised 65% of the total estimated Spotted Seatrout killed and when combined with the Upper Laguna Madre, it comprised 89% of the total estimated Spotted Seatrout mortality along the Texas coast. Similarly, the Upper Laguna Madre had experienced Black Drum mortality at an estimated 82,600 fish and comprised 78% of the coastwide Black Drum killed.

Historical Comparison

... the overall number of fish killed in this event appears to be lower than any of the three freeze events in the 1980s.... However, the Spotted Seatrout mortality in the combined Upper and Lower Laguna Madres is comparable to the events from the 1980s"


----------



## sjrobin

In this event, at least one tow and barge passed through the ICW to Brownsville during the three day event. 
The recovery rate was excellent post 1983, but the 2021 Laguna Madre is not the same. Not as healthy an ecosystem and thousands more boats and fisherman. 

Kill tournaments have to stop. Coastal development has to stop.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

sjrobin said:


> In this event, at least one tow and barge passed through the ICW to Brownsville during the three day event.
> The recovery rate was excellent post 1983, but the 2021 Laguna Madre is not the same. Not as healthy an ecosystem and thousands more boats and fisherman.
> 
> Kill tournaments have to stop. Coastal development has to stop.


Too bad kill tournaments and coastal development will not cease any time soon unless it’s restricted. Seadrift to POC will be one in a decade at this rate.


----------



## Xcapnjoe

Nothing can be done in any coastal city worth a gleek.
Big wampum is powering the machinery.

Might as well join up with the McGonagills... Pluck the strings of negativity out from within your inner being... or some such nonsense.


----------



## Sublime

We take for granted that miles and miles of the King Ranch and Matagorda Island shorelines remain undeveloped. I know in the past there has been talk of developing Matagorda Island. Picture that.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> We take for granted that miles and miles of the King Ranch and Matagorda Island shorelines remain undeveloped. I know in the past there has been talk of developing Matagorda Island. Picture that.


I don’t want to...that would hurt my heart!


----------



## sjrobin

Yeah, we get what we deserve by how we vote. No one cares about the environment until it's gone. TXDot was asked to voluntarily suspend commercial traffic on the ICW in the Laguna Madre by TPWD, CCA, and TAMU. The tows loaded barges killed extra millions of marine animals no doubt. But most Texans keep on voting 2nd amendment propaganda, right to life issues, immigration policy, and a free market with no common sense government regulation.


----------



## Mark H

sjrobin said:


> Yeah, we get what we deserve by how we vote. No one cares about the environment until it's gone. TXDot was asked to voluntarily suspend commercial traffic on the ICW in the Laguna Madre by TPWD, CCA, and TAMU. The tows loaded barges killed extra millions of marine animals no doubt. But most Texans keep on voting 2nd amendment propaganda, right to life issues, immigration policy, and a free market with no common sense government regulation.


Get dizzy trying to follow that. Can you clarify?


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Mark H said:


> Get dizzy trying to follow that. Can you clarify?


Maybe he was hitting the sauce early...


----------



## Xcapnjoe

Y'all are scared o' the McGonagill gals like Mr. Halloran is afraid of room 237, ain'tcha?


----------



## CKEAT

sjrobin said:


> Yeah, we get what we deserve by how we vote. No one cares about the environment until it's gone. TXDot was asked to voluntarily suspend commercial traffic on the ICW in the Laguna Madre by TPWD, CCA, and TAMU. The tows loaded barges killed extra millions of marine animals no doubt. But most Texans keep on voting 2nd amendment propaganda, right to life issues, immigration policy, and a free market with no common sense government regulation.


I guess your one of those utopia fellas. Get out there and change human nature, good luck. Mao and Stalin did a great job.

Getting rid of human malevolence with legislation is like roping the moon.


----------



## sjrobin

Gregg Abbott could have used emergency power to stop commercial water traffic on the Laguna Madre for three days.


----------



## Xcapnjoe

CKEAT said:


> I guess your one of those utopia fellas. Get out there and change human nature, good luck. Mao and Stalin did a great job.
> 
> Getting rid of human malevolence with legislation is like roping the moon.


Maybe he fancies himself a George Bailey.


----------



## sjrobin

Really simple. Short term $$ political survival or long term fish populations.


----------



## MatthewAbbott

sjrobin said:


> Gregg Abbott could have used emergency power to stop commercial water traffic on the Laguna Madre for three days.


Abbott, no relation btw, lacks the power to halt interstate commerce. He has no authority over it.

Could he have stopped it? Probably. Would it have ended up in court? More than likely.

But hey, he was already making EOs during the freeze that blurred the lines on state powers dealing in interstate commerce..


----------



## RJTaylor

MatthewAbbott said:


> Abbott, no relation btw, lacks the power to halt interstate commerce. He has no authority over it.


Hush, Matthew! Facts don't matter to certain people.


----------



## sjrobin

Interagency cooperation requires strong leadership


----------



## MatthewAbbott

Moratoriums require legal standings.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Remember guys...only keep what you need, we just had a substantial fish kill here.


----------



## TX_maverick

"Spring Breakers" gonna meat haul...


----------



## Surffshr

That’s special right there...exactly the folks that scream about any new regulations while raping everything they can.




Smackdaddy53 said:


> Remember guys...only keep what you need, we just had a substantial fish kill here.
> 
> View attachment 169940
> View attachment 169941
> View attachment 169942


----------



## Smackdaddy53

It has nothing to do with spring break. This is year round for these bay rapers. The guide is a local too...


----------



## MatthewAbbott

Spring break is just another dot on the calendar for these guys.


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## TX_maverick

I think the meat haul pics will cease to be posted as much anymore, out of fear of ridicule. I know guides are still keeping fish for their party, they just don't want the backlash.


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## Smackdaddy53

TX_maverick said:


> I think the meat haul pics will cease to be posted as much anymore, out of fear of ridicule. I know guides are still keeping fish for their party, they just don't want the backlash.


Of course they are. Raping the resource is how they make money. Zero respect.


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## TX_maverick

One positive is I fished Matagorda yesterday, and there wasn't more than 15 trucks at the harbor. Couldn't believe it, and it is even Spring Break!


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## Smackdaddy53

TX_maverick said:


> One positive is I fished Matagorda yesterday, and there wasn't more than 15 trucks at the harbor. Couldn't believe it, and it is even Spring Break!


That’s because over 90% of the trout died in the main bay.


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## skinnydip

Those pics piss me off! The rest of the guides need to give their customers some coaching. They are acting like nothing happened, very sad. We all have to make a living but I am sure they have not even had a conversation with these customers. If you have the right customers it will be less painful. Once you get the right customers work hard to keep them. Let the meat haulers figure it out on their own, that for sure will reduce the harvest. Man up boys!


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## Smackdaddy53

skinnydip said:


> Those pics piss me off! The rest of the guides need to give their customers some coaching. They are acting like nothing happened, very sad. We all have to make a living but I am sure they have not even had a conversation with these customers. If you have the right customers it will be less painful. Once you get the right customers work hard to keep them. Let the meat haulers figure it out on their own, that for sure will reduce the harvest. Man up boys!


I agree...They all soak live shrimp at the jetties, not much catch and release involved when fishing bait. Maybe elsewhere but not down here.


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