# rolling and tipping?



## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

i dont have a paint sprayer, or compressor. what brands of paint are best for rolling and tipping and how many coats is best? what do i do between coats for best results?


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

I've used Pettit Easy Poxy and Awlgrip.

Awlgrip first;
Expensive but very durable-the best. Easy to apply even for first timers. Roll on very thin and tip with throw away brush.
Don't overwork with brush. One pass is best.Let the paint flow.
You'll need to add thinner if paint thickens on you.  If brush
starts to drag throw in away and get a new one. You'll need
three coats on most colors, maybe more YMMV. Let dry overnight and sand with 220-320 grit, clean and apply next coat.
It goes fast, as my wife and I could do one side of our 34'
sailboat in about 30 min.

Pettit Easy Poxy;
Not as durable  as above but a lot cheaper.
Application is basically the same. Keep coats thin and always use their brushing thinner. They say you only need in hot weather-don't believe them.
Also you can mix colors to get what you want i.e. black and white to get any shade of gray. I did a very light gray on a deck that came out nice.
I've also added a hardner that improved durability but I can't remember what type or brand. Do some research or 
ask around.
Depending on where you are I may be able to save you some money on Awlgrip unless company has changed policy.

That's all- I'm out of breath.


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

rolling and tipping awlgrip - there should be a crime against it !! it's a waste of a fine product,a fine expensive product...i promise you,you will never get the results you're looking for by rolling and tipping...

if you don't have the equipment,i suggest you take the boat to a shop and have it done for you...

otherwise,just buy a cheap,low quality paint like rustoleum,bright side,or other cheap single part paint,and roll it...

others will tell you similar results as spraying can be obtained by rolling and tipping -that's not true,and do not fall for the "it's who's behind the brush" line...if you want results like these ? the product needs to be sprayed,results like these are not possible by rolling and tipping...
this is a console i recently sprayed in awlgrip









this is a 13 whaler i finished a while ago...again,awlgrip sprayed...


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

What kind of sprayer is needed? I can prob borrow a compresure.


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

Sorry but rolling and tipping awlgrip is done every day on 
private yachts well over 100 ft plus. I've personally sold 
thousands of dollars worth of awlgrip and all was rolled and tipped. You don't want overspray on all that teak deck. I've seen yachts get name changes at the dock-no spray. 


Now all of the paint I sold was for routine maintenance not an overall paint job but it had to match-and it did. A total
repaint of my best customers "boat" ran 1.1-1.2 million and was done every 5-6 years.Their last refit at Fedship took
18 months and 12 million dollars.

If tipping and rolling didn't work,these folks would find something that would. 

Also my sailboat looked damn good even when I sold it 7
years after I painted it. And boat yards in Florida 
don't allow owners to spray their boats. How do all those
30-50ft  boats get nice paint jobs?? Make a guess.


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

I will be painting a johnsen skiff, I'm not looking for a perfect paint job, just want it to last! I am a little worried about color because I want to use awlgrips flag blue-hull and moon dust-deck and floor!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree with Barbless, people roll and tip boats every day and if done correctly it looks great. 

I would not roll and tip in temps over 85. I've done one part paint in as high as 95 degrees and even with the recommended thinner it is hard. Even in cooler temps I still use thinner and I've had to adjust from one coat to the next. In between coats I sand with 220, and then 320 before the final coat, then wipe and tack.

Kreepa, do all awlgrip jobs that are sprayed have that much orange peel? Is that just a characteristic of the paint?


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

Dark blue is not a color you want to start with; very difficult to roll and tip but not impossible. You could do the deck in the lighter color, see how that works and proceed from there. You can also do a test pattern with the blue and see if it looks ok.

Another option is automotive base coat/clear coat. Do you have a friend that has a friend that has a friend that paints
cars? You can shoot the hull sides in your front yard and it will look great. I shot my last skiff with black bc/cc and it turned out very nice. Check around there's more than one way to paint a skiff.

ps: most of your high performance boats are painted with
bc/cc and it holds up nicely. I've got a little sanger flat
that will get bc/cc in a couple months right out in my driveway


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> I agree with Barbless, people roll and tip boats every day and if done correctly it looks great.
> 
> I would not roll and tip in temps over 85. I've done one part paint in as high as 95 degrees and even with the recommended thinner it is hard. Even in cooler temps I still use thinner and I've had to adjust from one coat to the next. In between coats I sand with 220, and then 320 before the final coat, then wipe and tack.
> 
> Kreepa, do all awlgrip jobs that are sprayed have that much orange peel? Is that just a characteristic of the paint?


that's reflections - there's a 4' drum fan running in front of lights...


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> Sorry but rolling and tipping awlgrip is done every day on
> private yachts well over 100 ft plus. I've personally sold
> thousands of dollars worth of awlgrip and all was rolled and tipped. You don't want overspray on all that teak deck. I've seen yachts get name changes at the dock-no spray.
> 
> ...


there's a big difference between,doing a "white out" job on teak - brushing the awlgrip is the technique used most often for this-the awlgrip is brushed,versus sprayed - big difference between doing this and painting the hull of a boat...

painting a name's much different too...

again,if this is the end result you're looking for




















rolling and tipping will NEVER give this result...it may look "good",but "good" is a relative term - think of it as "taste",some people like cajun food,some do not - what may look "good" to you,may not appear that way to some one else...i've seen many "rolled and tipped" boats,and i've yet to see one that looked like it was sprayed...

i've done and seen a few "white out" jobs - "white out" jobs are when the teak toe rails,etc,are sanded,coated in west system epoxy,primed and coated in awlgrip,to match the hull - these jobs are usually done by brushing the awlgrip - it looks sweet,and it avoids the constant upkeep of teak - however,it will never have the flawless appearence of the hull's sides...


no yard i'm aware of,will allow ANY owners to spray ANY paint in their yard.the potential for problems is huge - it's a giant liability for yard owners...

awlgrip,as well as any 2 part paint requires certain saftey equipment be used - the vapors are deadly - most DIY people do not have this required equipment...

if you're looking for just a decent paint job - nothing spectacular - just roll it out in a sngle part paint - it's less than a third of the price of a 2 part like awlgrip,no sense wasting money and a good product,if you're not looking for a mirror like finish...think of like buying a bently to tow the skiff with,when a ford explorer will do just as good a job,just not look as good


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

Kreepa what's the best paint to roll and tip?


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> Kreepa what's the best paint to roll and tip?



that's a trick question...

i've never rolled and tipped anything,sprayed,and brushed awlgrip...
i've only "rolled" decks and coverboards...

ask yourself this question:

"do i want a perfect job" ?

you're saying you want to paint a dark color - dark colors will "show" everything,as in every flaw...

light colors are more "forgiving" - that's a point to remember...

if you're looking for something that looks good,and it's gonna last,and you're not looking at spending alot of money - use a single part paint - roll it and be done with it...

not really sure what awlgrip "retails" for -i wanna say it's around $400 for a gallon of awlgrip,brushing/rolling kicker and thinner - there's different kickers - brushing/rolling kicker and spray kicker - these mix at different rates...
a single part paint - it's around $25 a qt - that's a huge difference huh ?

not trying to talk anyone out of anything,nor am i trying to force my opinion down anyone's throat - but,applying an expensive top coat,such as awlgrip,over a hull that's not really prepped for it,"prepped" meaning,it's got flaws,may not be the best option,the end result may not be what you wished for,nor what you paid for either - if you're gonna drop that kind of coin for a product,you want it to be applied in the best method available,over top of the best surface you can get - this way,the end result will be what you wished for.again,a "20' paint job",is what it is,a paint job that looks great at 20',get closer and the appearence changes dramatically...
i promise you,a rolled and tipped job may look "good",and again,"good" is a relative term,it will NEVER have the appearence of a sprayed job,anyone that states it does is wrong...


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

How much would you paint my hull for?
Maybe that's the question I should be asking?


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

> > Sorry but rolling and tipping awlgrip is done every day on
> > private yachts well over 100 ft plus. I've personally sold
> > thousands of dollars worth of awlgrip and all was rolled and tipped. You don't want overspray on all that teak deck. I've seen yachts get name changes at the dock-no spray.
> >
> ...


"White out job on teak" I never said that and was not talking about 'teak". Please read again. Also I said "name change" not name paint. Changing the name entails sanding off old name-repainting area to match hull color and then someone comes in and paints the "name". Again please read carefully. Your boat looks good but I've seen better roll and tip paint jobs on dark colors.  And for someone who has never rolled and tipped Awlgrip you seem to know an awful lot about it. Just saying.


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> > > Sorry but rolling and tipping awlgrip is done every day on
> > > private yachts well over 100 ft plus. I've personally sold
> > > thousands of dollars worth of awlgrip and all was rolled and tipped. You don't want overspray on all that teak deck. I've seen yachts get name changes at the dock-no spray.
> > >
> ...



we'll agree to disagree...i know about different techniques,this is my buisness,i better know what i'm talking about.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

The other pictures you posted still show a ton of orange peel from what I can see, the reflection is how you can see it. I'm just saying back in the day if I painted a car and it came out like that I'd have to respray it. Maybe that is just how all awlgrip jobs come out?


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> The other pictures you posted still show a ton of orange peel from what I can see, the reflection is how you can see it. I'm just saying back in the day if I painted a car and it came out like that I'd have to respray it. Maybe that is just how all awlgrip jobs come out?


it's reflections - i'm leaving the house now,headed to the shop - i'll grab a few pictures of that console - there's no orange peel,or fish eyes on it...


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Tightloops - you should add where you live to your info so people can assist youl locally.

From my own personal experience here is what I know:
*A roll and tip method will never give or achieve the results of a spray.
*Never - as a backyard painter- spray awlgrip - ever.
*Dark colors show every flaw.
*If I want a show boat I will pay someone.  If I have a utility boat I will do it myself.

If I needed a paint job I would hire a professional. If I lived in NJ I would hire Kreepa and in Miami I would hire paint it black.  I live in Tampa so I guess I won't be hiring either.  But then again I don't think they want to paint with oil based camo.

FC- were your last comments really necessary? They have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread and they certainly were not of any value to others seeking assistance on how to paint.


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

Ducknut I also live in the Tampa bay area, I just want something that will look halfway decent! I don't think I can afford to hire a professional to paint my boat. I would really like achieve the best results as possible, but this is also my first boat build so if it dosnt look like 1,000,000 bucks I think I would be ok. As long as she poles skinny and catches fish. I was doing some research on rolling and tippin lastnight and seen quite a few boats that were rolled and tipped that looked better than I thought they would.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

You CAN get decent results rolling and tipping but I would not suggest using a high quality paint like awlgrip. Your just wasting good product that IMHO should be sprayed. If you want to experiment spraying then I suggest you visit a local paint/body supplier and see if they have any remnant or mistint quarts they would sell so you can practice. Its really not hard to produce a high quality spray job once you get your thinning, pressure and spray pattern down. Get yourself a cheap cup gun and compressor and try it out. Start out with low pressure and thin coats. Don't try to cover in one coat or you will end up with hella runs and sags. Until then, rolling and tipping is fine as long as your happy with a mediocre finish... Good luck


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

I just recently finished painting my 70hp johnson with awlgrip.
I painted it with a kawasaki hvlp touch up gun and 12 gallon air compressor.
For a first timer my results came out very well. Which is not common, especially given the equipment i used. I sprayed it outside, in the open, and wore a good respirator. I sprayed the ground with the hose to keep the dust down and painted around 6:30 am. Right as the dew dried, but before the bugs and wind came out. I spent ALOT of time in the prep work, and used good air,oil,water filters in the setup.
Also, it was apart, so i sprayed each small part separately (much easier than one big hull side, with much less chance of bugs and dirt landing in it)
A good job can be obtained,but it takes much reasearch, and some practice.

Again, im not saying anybody can do it, its not easy if you want a good quality finish, but it can be done.


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

http://www.triton381.com/projects/restoration/hullpaint.htm

Check out this writeup on awlgrip.with photos.

Awlgrip is made to be applied by roller, brush, or spray.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Check out www.supermarinepaint.com
Several colors at reasonable prices and lots of colors.
Again, take the advice from the concensus - avoid the dark colors unless your hull is perfect.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> FC- were your last comments really necessary? They have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread and they certainly were not of any value to others seeking assistance on how to paint.


Actually they have everything to do with the topic. If you guys are suggesting to spray and the paint is difficult for a first timer, or even an experienced painted to achieve decent results then I would go with a different product!


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

Im going to roll and tip. If it comes out crappy, kreepa has my full consent to call me an idiot for not spaying.


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

Oyster- post some pics of your paint job I'd like to see the results! What color you gonna do?


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

> > FC- were your last comments really necessary? They have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread and they certainly were not of any value to others seeking assistance on how to paint.
> 
> 
> Actually they have everything to do with the topic. If you guys are suggesting to spray and the paint is difficult for a first timer, or even an experienced painted to achieve decent results then I would go with a different product!


FC; Awlgrip when sprayed can orange peel just like a bc/cc.
the problem is you CANNOT wet sand and buff Awlgrip.What
you see when dry is what you get.This is why a lot of people go with roll and tip. 

One boat yard in Ft.Lauderdale list five paint contractors
on their wed site that only do roll and tip. I've seen some of their work and it is very good and looks sprayed but without
the orange peel.


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

> Im  going to roll and tip. If it comes out crappy, kreepa has my full consent to call me an idiot for not spaying.


A few things to keep in mind as you move forward on your adventure.
A few folks in this thread have said to not use a quality paint like Awlgrip because it should be sprayed and in the next breath they say they have never seen a good roll and tip paint job.DUH "cheap not good and good not cheap"

2 part lpu paints ie; Algrip,Alexseal, and Sterling are the best flowing paints made and are the easiest to apply by
roller and brush. The boat does not care if paint is sprayed
or rolled on. Also Awlgrip gives a coverage of 525sf per gallon at 1 mil if sprayed and 700sf if rolled. That's a lot
of savings even on a small boat.

If you go with a 2 part lpu the best prices I've seen is
Goldcoast Marine in Ft. Laudrdale. I did business with them
for years. good people. They carry Awlgrip and Alexseal.
For sterling paints try MYD marine also in FT. Lauderdale.
If they won't sell direct they can tell you who in your area.

One last thing: Fedship the premier yacht builder in the world paints all there boats (up to 300ft) with Awlgrip applied by "BRUSH". But what do they know.

Anyway good luck and have fun.


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> > A few folks in this thread have said to not use a quality paint like Awlgrip because it should be sprayed and in the next breath they say they have never seen a good roll and tip paint job.DUH "cheap not good and good not cheap"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

this is that console being installed

the deck,it's been rolled,sprinkled with grip tex and rolled twice again...it's the same color as the console - oyster white...


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> Im  going to roll and tip. If it comes out crappy, kreepa has my full consent to call me an idiot for not spaying.



i've never called anyone an idiot - that was "paint it black"...


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

Kreepa, that second pic was awesome. Nice work. It seems there are a few different aproaches to applying nonslip. The method you use sounds similar to PIBs method. If i dont do kiwi. I'll prolly "sprinkle" too. The color i'm using is off-white. Its close to mattahorn white. I was going to buy oyster white but it was too close to cream. Cream and light grey dont match. I want a light grey nonslip deck.


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

Kreepa guess what? You're not the only person that has posted in this thread. What I wrote was posted by others
and I did not say you said anything. 

Taste has nothing to do with anything. Again*Awlgrip is applied
by roller and brush in yards all over the world and by Fedship.
You do know who they are? A properly rolled and tipped paint
job looks as good and many times better than a sprayed 
one and you cannot tell the diff. By your own words you have never rolled and tipped Awgrip but you know it can't be done.Wow that says a lot. I've done it-I have friends
that do it for a living-I have seen many very very good
rolled and tipped Awgrip paint jobs. You need to get out more.
And as far as "Boat yards" I never said anybody was spraying anything. The first time I mentioned yards I ask how do all those 30-50 ft boats get painted. Guess again.
The second time I said they have 5 paint contractors on their
wedsite that "ROLL AND TIP". Check it out it's Playboy marina again in Florida. This is not an argument this is a
series of posts trying to get the "TRUTH" out, not some
"well I think" or "in my opinion"or " I've never done it but it
can't be done" or any other statements with no first hand
experience "ROLLING AND TIPPING" of marine paints.

A quality paint job can be done on a small skiff for approx
$500 or less including primer if the owner wants to do the work himself. Not a bad deal for a 10 year life span.

One more thing; you really need to try this out as it would
open up boat yards and larger boats in the future.


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

Anyone used something like this, or maybe something similar? Also everyone keeps talking about prep work, are there any threads in the process/detailed steps on making sure your hull is prepped correctly for paint,


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## tightloops1900 (Aug 16, 2011)

http://m.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=203053409&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ved=0CHQQgwgwBTgK&ci_sku=203053409&ei=9QsUUNvTH4Gm9ASj1oDwBQ&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping%252d%255f%252dgooglebase%252d%255f%252dD24X%252d%255f%252d203053409&sa=X


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

http://www.triton381.com/projects/restoration/hullpreparation.html

Tightloops, go to above and start a part 3 and read from there if your skiff has original gelcoat. If it was painted before let us know what you got.

Prep work is just getting the hull smooth as a baby's you know what. No nicks -no gouges- just a smooth surface to apply primer on. After that you must sand primer to a smooth surface-to about 220-320 grit. This sounds easy and is if you have the right tools, just time consuming.
Read the restoration article I posted above and get back with questions. On your last post link no work.


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

barbless,this is what you typed: "By your own words you have never rolled and tipped Awgrip but you know it can't be done.Wow that says a lot"

tell me,where did i type it can't be done ? could ya point that out for me ?

i don't roll and tip,i stated that - reason being,that's the preferrred method of application,by me - i never stated it can't be done ! do not put words in my mouth !

as for fedship,yep,heard of them,never worked on one,seen a few - not aware of the method they use to finish their hulls,nor do i care - i don't work on them.i don't paint big boats - big as in large sportfishermen,etc,reason being,it won't fit in my building...
i've seen roll and tip jobs - i stated that,everyone,i could tell the finish wasn't sprayed...

truth is,we're going around in circles,and truthfully,i'm getting dizzy...

perhaps you missed this : "not trying to talk anyone out of anything,nor am i trying to force my opinion down anyone's throat - but,applying an expensive top coat,such as awlgrip,over a hull that's not really prepped for it,"prepped" meaning,it's got flaws,may not be the best option,the end result may not be what you wished for,nor what you paid for either - if you're gonna drop that kind of coin for a product,you want it to be applied in the best method available,over top of the best surface you can get - this way,the end result will be what you wished for.again,a "20' paint job",is what it is,a paint job that looks great at 20',get closer and the appearence changes dramatically...
i promise you,a rolled and tipped job may look "good",and again,"good" is a relative term,it will NEVER have the appearence of a sprayed job,anyone that states it does is wrong... "
that's what i typed -reread it...it matters not to me,whatever method you want,or do use - i use spraying,and,it's been my experience,that's the best method,your opinion differs,and that's cool with me,just don't give false hope - "false hope",being it's gonna be a job that can't be distinguished between a sprayed on job,and a rolled and tipped job - i have more than enough experience to tell you what's a sprayed on job,and a rolled and tipped job...

as for fedship - painting a 100'+ boat with a roller and a paint brush must be a huge undertaking,one i know i want no parts of...


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

> A properly rolled and tipped paint
> job looks as good and many times better than a sprayed
> one and you cannot tell the diff.


 ;D You must be high on Awlgrip and/or do not know how to spray period... Have you ever seen lap marks caused by rolling and tipping? Unless the environment is perfect, there is no way with all the stopping and starting by the roller and brush that it can be superior to a continuous spray job. Not possible....


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

Well it appears everybody that has never done Roll and Tip knows how it's done. Being stupid through life must be fun.
I give up. As my father said; It's hard to teach people that know everything.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

> Well it appears everybody that has never done Roll and Tip knows how it's done. Being stupid through life must be fun.
> I give up. As my father said; It's hard to teach people that know everything.


Then enlighten us step by step how to produce a superior roll and tip awlgrip job. I've done it plenty of times with many other paints. I want to hear it first hand from a true professional...


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

> > Well it appears everybody that has never done Roll and Tip knows how it's done. Being stupid through life must be fun.
> > I give up. As my father said; It's hard to teach people that know everything.
> 
> 
> Then enlighten us step by step how to produce a superior roll and tip awlgrip job. I've done it plenty of times with many other paints. I want to hear it first hand from a true professional...


 I've posted enough. Look at the links. I'm retired and just trying to help. Do what you want. I don't give a crap.


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

> > > Well it appears everybody that has never done Roll and Tip knows how it's done. Being stupid through life must be fun.
> > > I give up. As my father said; It's hard to teach people that know everything.
> >
> >
> ...


 Sorry if I sounded rough; I meant to sat "BITE ME".
Is that better.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Anybody can read articles and cut and paste. Experience is what really matters....


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

> Anybody can read articles and cut and paste. Experience is what really matters....


"
You have the same problem as Kreepa. "You can not read"
Go back and  "READ" what I've posted. You and Kreepa
need to go back and slap your  "'Reading Comprehension"
teacher up side the head because you both fail. I can't
fix STUPID.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Then let's see your awesome pictures of an awlgrip roll and tip that you've done and we can let the critics go from there. As far as reading comprehension, I'm pretty sure I have a little more education under my belt. Call us stupid all you want, I do not have to stoop to childish name calling to cover for my lack of knowledge. When someone is in the wrong, they typically get very defensive. : I do know how to read and have only quoted you once. So I don't know where your getting all this from.


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## texmac (Apr 25, 2012)

Well, like I said; it's impossible  to teach people that can not read. Have fun not knowing 2 part lpu. You all  win: though you've never done anything with 2part Lpu. WOW!




e


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

> Reply #4 - Jul 24th, 2012 at 8:07pm    Their last refit at Fedship took





> Reply #27 - Today at 5:32am
> One last thing: Fedship the premier





> Re: rolling and tipping?
> Reply #32 - Today at 10:44am      all over the world and by Fedship.





> Reply #43 - Yesterday at 8:05pm    need to go back and slap your  "'Reading Comprehension" teacher


Fixed it for you: need to go back and slap check your  "'Reading Comprehension" teacher competence
Your dad was so, so right -


> It's hard to teach people that know everything.


For the record it is FEADSHIP and I will believe they roll and tip an entire vessel when you post a letter from them confiring it.  Not until then.

There is no reason to get frantic about a paint job.  This guy was asking a simple question about painting a boat.  As he stated he is not looking for a perfect paint job and he is painting a Johnson skiff.  There is no way he is going to spend $1,000 on a paint job on a $300 boat.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

I frequeb alot of marinas. Duh! Its my job.
Anyways 
Hinkley yachts
American custom yachts
Jim smith
Garlington
Bonadeo
Willis
All
Rybivich
All spray awlcraft 2000


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