# Vented fuel fills



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Anybody able to tell me much about these? Why sre they needed if tank is vented? Any good supplier recommendations?

My new EC Evo is great, except the new EPA required fill on the top deck sticks up about a half inch and is a major fly line catcher. Not just catches it, but really grabs it and holds it, damages fly line if you try to pull it out. Annoying, yes. I know I can throw a towel over it or a line mat but I was doing that with my $1200 jon boat.

Any insight into what Hells Bay/Beavertail/others are using? Or a source on straight fills (both tube and vent)? 

Per Adam, supplier issues are why they had to go with these. So finding one on my own has been tough. But wonder if all the new skiff comapniea are doing this? Or if any9ne has a line on flush fuel fills, or ideas to fix.

Pic of current model for reference. It flips up to open, the other side there's a gap big enough for an 8 wt running line to wedge tightly up beneath. And it does, nearly every single time.


----------



## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Try this search:






flush mount fuel fill boats at DuckDuckGo


DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




duckduckgo.com





In the mean time, a little duck tape is your friend.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Looks like the normal ones are still available. I have this on two skiffs. Doesn't grab line. Amazon.com : Moeller Fuel Tank Installation Kit : Boat Fuel Tanks : Sports & Outdoors


----------



## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

It my understanding from Beavertail that due to newer epa regs the fuel vent systems are no longer "open"...they now hold about 1-2 pounds of pressure and don't freely vent.
That being said that fuel fill cap on your evo sucks...why would they put that on a flat deck sticking up 1/2 inch? 
My BT Micro has a flush fill cap on the deck and the vent is on the starboard side of the hull


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Mine has a vent on the side of the hull too? Trying to understand why this cap is required - and why other manuf still use flush ones. I think there's a filter in this cap, this the raised position. But don't see it elsewhere (other makes). Need to have an OTR convo with a boat builder to know my options.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

MRichardson said:


> Mine has a vent on the side of the hull too? Trying to understand why this cap is required - and why other manuf still use flush ones. I think there's a filter in this cap, this the raised position. But don't see it elsewhere (other makes). Need to have an OTR convo with a boat builder to know my options.


If you have access underneath, just pull this off and put in the one above. I feel like I would kick that one you have day one. I guarantee that hole is the same size as the tank fill prob has that same size fuel fill line. It's kind of a pain to get off, but, less of a pain than living with that thing on a fly skiff.


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Yeah, kinda leaning that way. I dont give a shit about epa regs that lead to this damn cap, but i guess of course builders have to.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

MRichardson said:


> Yeah, kinda leaning that way. I dont give a shit about epa regs that lead to this damn cap, but i guess of course builders have to.


Honestly the worst is the gas tank caps for the 6hp et al. There is a whole industry that popped up for selling the old caps because the new ones wont vent and will cause your portable tank to blow up like a balloon. It's totally insane. The caps that worked for decades now evidently aren't eco. I had to buy a new cap for a brand new tank because the one that came with it wasn't EPA. We are in crazy town now.


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Wonder where they think all those fumes go when you open the tank to release the pressure lol?


----------



## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

Nothing like screwing up a clean deck with a hockey puck for a fuel cap. Dumbasses are still pulling into gas stations and inserting the fuel hose handle into fishing rod holders and dumping gallons of gas onto the ground but at least we've got a new way to snag fly line.


----------



## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

P.S. Congrats on new boat Mr. Ichardson.


----------



## Redtail (May 25, 2021)

I'm going to have to look at mine when we get back to Florida but from your photo I think I would try to find a large "O" ring and slip it over the cap and fill the void by the deck.


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Yeah, gonna look for one as well as a very small u-channel that could grip the edge of the flip up cap. Wouldn’t have to go all the way around, but most of the lower edge. Not sure if they make rubber trim that small.


----------



## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

I'd buy the new part and take it back to the boat company to let them fix it if I was close by. I had to buy wheels and tires last year and take them to pick up my boat because the trailer mfg could not get any.


----------



## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

MRichardson said:


> Wonder where they think all those fumes go when you open the tank to release the pressure lol?


They don’t think, and there lies the problem!


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Hank said:


> I'd buy the new part and take it back to the boat company to let them fix it if I was close by. I had to buy wheels and tires last year and take them to pick up my boat because the trailer mfg could not get any.


Well, they may not be willing to install a non-compliant part. I need to learn more about this. What I don't get is that other manufacturers are still using flush fuel caps (Hells Bay, Beavertail, others)... so how are they able? I have been emailing ECC to learn more. The freal final question is will redoing it and saying fuck the vent be akin to cutting a tag off a mattress? The tank is vented thru the hull in addition to this fuel vent, this fill vent is filtered theu the cap I guess. Other options are carbon canister, etc etc. I just want to plug it and replace.


----------



## Redtail (May 25, 2021)

Keep us updated on what you discover.


----------



## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

MRichardson said:


> Well, they may not be willing to install a non-compliant part. I need to learn more about this. What I don't get is that other manufacturers are still using flush fuel caps (Hells Bay, Beavertail, others)... so how are they able? I have been emailing ECC to learn more. The freal final question is will redoing it and saying fuck the vent be akin to cutting a tag off a mattress? The tank is vented thru the hull in addition to this fuel vent, this fill vent is filtered theu the cap I guess. Other options are carbon canister, etc etc. I just want to plug it and replace.


I guess I’m wondering if this is a supply chain issue and that fill cap is all they could get at the time. Maybe, maybe not, but I’d sure want that off my boat.


----------



## vantagefish (Jul 16, 2014)

I have an upcoming build and noticed these giant fuel fills while I was at the shop. I sent an email inquiring about alternative options and was told due to supply issues this was the only option.


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

Before you go yanking that thing out. You better make sure your tank has a vent elbow which I doubt it does. Good luck getting someone brave/stupid enough to put one on for you. You can get some lower profile caps that have a vent in the cap. I think Perko makes one. Not the prettiest of things. But it is lower profile than that.
A little caulk under that edge will keep the fly line out of it. But that won’t help your toes.
Depending on the room underneath possibly a aluminum tube with a vent elbow coming off it may fit. But I doubt you have that much clearance.
That thing needed to be recessed into the deck. A puck could be added to the mold without too much effort. Since it would be a positive. It can even be done as temporary.
It can still be recessed but it will be some work. Again if you have the clearance underneath that is.
Can you post a pick of what you got underneath?


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

You are saying it has a vent through the hull as well? If that’s true then you can replace it with the old style. But what’s the point of having a open vent and a closed vent? Seems to be a bit of a contradiction.
And I am certain ECC won’t be able to install a non compliant part. Their hands are tied on that one.
It would be nice to have a tank with a vent elbow that is capped off😉


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

vantagefish said:


> I have an upcoming build and noticed these giant fuel fills while I was at the shop. I sent an email inquiring about alternative options and was told due to supply issues this was the only option.


Interestingly, Hell's Bay and others are still doing flush (old-style). Trying to dig around and see what's up with that. 
I can easily find a straight vent, straight fill fuel fill online... but, this cap is vented/sealed or something. I just don't understand the design or requirements, or how the other flats skiff companies are still making a flush fuel fill (and getting them).


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

There are some retrofit inline compliant canisters out there from my understanding. Almost looks like charcoal canisters on cars. And I think that’s what everyone has been using on skiffs. Maybe that’s the style they can’t get their hands on right now. But if you are certain you have a hull vent you can just replace it with a old style flush cap


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

Just checked your build thread. And it does look like a vent port side. I bet it’s tied into the cap somewhere with a check valve on it or something. Or else why would it be there. The big question still is does your tank have a vent line. If it does you are good to with a cap and some hose. That big cap probably has a over pressure relief valve and/or fuel surge/spark arrestor. And may have a vent hose connected to it. Or going to a big plastic canister. Post up what you got and we can figure something out in here for sure


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Here's the layout:

Cap - it's not good that it's raised up, but worse is that gap between the flip up can and the deck. Fly line gets in there and you have to open the cap to get it out. Visible in first pic. Second pic shows the vent in the fill, third shows vent/arrestor? hardware within the cap itself.


























The way the lines are laid out are as follows:

Fuel fill vent hose visible here going off to the right (port side).










This ends in a T, where it meets up with the tank vent (foreground) and a hose going to the one visible on the port side gunnel (where it disappears over the edge of the tank).


----------



## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Could it be that fill was intended for use with tanks that have more complex fuel fill lines? Basically to attempt to send overflow or "spit back" back into the tank, rather than have it pour out of the fill?

Just guessing as to what it could be, other than a redundant vent.


----------



## bob_esper (Jun 3, 2021)

It looks like they may have just not installed it properly? i don't see any reason for the gap other than its not properly seating due to something interfering. . perhaps the cut out wasnt big enough, or it's sitting up on the nonskid.


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

That piece on top of the tank is the EPA crap I’m pretty sure. Looks like one could unbolt it and pull it out. Make a flat plate with a elbow and connect to the vent hose already there. No welding would be required. Then you can use any old style filler. My tank guy was asking if I wanted this in a tank I had made for a customer recently. I passed on it and don’t know exactly how it is setup. 
But I do know for certain they are building them in tanks now. Instead of the inline plastic canisters.

side note:
is that bottom clamp tight on the fill hose?


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

Looks like gap is on the cap side. And the fill plate is nice and flat. If so you can’t caulk or o-ring the gap. Only way to fix it is ditch it.


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

jonny said:


> That piece on top of the tank is the EPA crap I’m pretty sure. Looks like one could unbolt it and pull it out. Make a flat plate with a elbow and connect to the vent hose already there. No welding would be required. Then you can use any old style filler. My tank guy was asking if I wanted this in a tank I had made for a customer recently. I passed on it and don’t know exactly how it is setup.
> But I do know for certain they are building them in tanks now. Instead of the inline plastic canisters.
> 
> side note:
> is that bottom clamp tight on the fill hose?


Yep, checked that. It's just the angle/lighting that makes it look loose.

So... trying to picture the flat plate with the elbow and how that works with an old style filler without welding.. where would the flat plate go?

You're right on the gap - the gap is in the filler, not how it's mounted. It only closes that far. The filler is set up flush with the deck, or as flush as it can go.


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

Where your vent hose goes into the tank. That is bolted down to the tank. You can pull that out. Then make a new plate with a elbow threaded and bonded on. Or even possibly reuse the top plate if you can remove what’s attached to it inside the tank. Now this all from that small corner of it in the pic. So I may be wrong it does happen occasionally. I would take that plate out and see what you got. All you really need in the tank is a vent, filler, pick up tube and a ground tab. Of course the EPA would frown upon this.


----------



## Gervais (Nov 28, 2016)

MRichardson said:


> Here's the layout:
> 
> Cap - it's not good that it's raised up, but worse is that gap between the flip up can and the deck. Fly line gets in there and you have to open the cap to get it out. Visible in first pic. Second pic shows the vent in the fill, third shows vent/arrestor? hardware within the cap itself.
> 
> ...


just an idea for a temp fix. Buy a large silicone o ring and when the cap is closed, loop it over to cover the gap.


----------



## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

Thing looks like a Minn Kota spot lock


----------



## GitFishin (May 10, 2019)

Tagging @Renegade in here. He's an EC rep and can provide an official response.


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

GitFishin said:


> Tagging @Renegade in here. He's an EC rep and can provide an official response.


They don’t want no part of this conversation 😂


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Lol. I think their hands are tied and I respect that. But would like to know why it is different from the other prevailing skiff makes out there.

I ordered some 1/32" gap small rubber u-channel. A strip on either side of the latch around the underside of the cap might do the trick. If not, I'll try the silicone o-ring approach.


----------



## JSFalcon (Oct 7, 2021)

MRichardson said:


> Interestingly, Hell's Bay and others are still doing flush (old-style). Trying to dig around and see what's up with that.
> I can easily find a straight vent, straight fill fuel fill online... but, this cap is vented/sealed or something. I just don't understand the design or requirements, or how the other flats skiff companies are still making a flush fuel fill (and getting them).



I picked up my Vantage new from the factory at the end of March, I have a flush style fuel fill. Sounds like the only reason it's on your boat is they were having "supply chain issues" getting the flush style fuel fill


----------



## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Damn that sucks. Just saw pics of my almost finished Evo and it has the same fuel cap. A bit of a bummer but I suppose there could be worse things to complain about.


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

I know exactly what our customers know. We are mandated to use caps that are EPA compliant and we have not been able to source the flush caps we have used for years. No one is happy about it. Kevin and Adam have been scouring our suppliers for anything less obtuse.

It definitely isn’t ideal.


----------



## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Was hoping you'd chime in. No way Kevin would chose this cap I figured there had to be a good reason.


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Definitely 1st world problems! Thanks for the input everyone. Lots of ideas but probably the best approach is apply the rubber u-channel approach (or towel, or carbon marine adjustable bucket, or line mat) and wait until the other flush style caps become available one day.


----------



## GitFishin (May 10, 2019)

Renegade said:


> I know exactly what our customers know. We are mandated to use caps that are EPA compliant and we have not been able to source the flush caps we have used for years. No one is happy about it. Kevin and Adam have been scouring our suppliers for anything less obtuse.
> 
> It definitely isn’t ideal.


In fairness, everybody is having trouble sourcing. I've had to make several changes on my build because of it.


----------



## GitFishin (May 10, 2019)

MRichardson said:


> Lol. I think their hands are tied and I respect that. But would like to know why it is different from the other prevailing skiff makes out there.
> 
> I ordered some 1/32" gap small rubber u-channel. A strip on either side of the latch around the underside of the cap might do the trick. If not, I'll try the silicone o-ring approach.


Not quite the same issue but I just had to pay $62 for a replacement gas cap for my Skeeter thanks to the EPA regs and the janked up supply chain.


----------



## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

This thread is wild. I can't believe that a machinest can't step in and fill this gap.


----------



## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Jason M said:


> This thread is wild. I can't believe that a machinest can't step in and fill this gap.


There are flush mount fills out there available for delivery now. Once the vent issue is solved, its time to change out the fill. I don’t think it will be that hard or complicated.


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

Jason M said:


> This thread is wild. I can't believe that a machinest can't step in and fill this gap.


I have more specific information.

We use a diurnal EPA venting system in order to comply with regulations. This is preferable over carbon canister vent filters because it doesn’t impact fill rates, doesn’t require maintenance, and doesn’t increase risk of water in fuel, which are all issues with canisters.

We CAN get flush fill caps that work with canisters. I assume the other manufacturers use canisters as it’s easier right now and they are clearly still getting flush caps. We will not use canisters.

So, we are working through this the best we can. We should have caps by November. There are a million flush caps out there, but we cannot install those. We need caps with a pressure sensitive valve designed for diurnal venting. Right now the ones we are using are the only ones available.

It’s definitely not ideal, but it’s still better than a carbon canister system.

We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Josh


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

38 pages of tax payer funded reading that explains why we have to do this 









Transportation, Air Pollution, and Climate Change | US EPA


Learn how emissions reductions, advancements in fuels and fuel economy, and working with industry to find solutions to air pollution problems benefit human and environmental health, create consumer savings and are cost effective.




www3.epa.gov


----------



## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Renegade said:


> I have more specific information.
> 
> We use a diurnal EPA venting system in order to comply with regulations. This is preferable over carbon canister vent filters because it doesn’t impact fill rates, doesn’t require maintenance, and doesn’t increase risk of water in fuel, which are all issues with canisters.
> 
> ...


Josh,

You're a stand up guy for coming in and explaining. I was not criticizing East Cape, I hope it didn't come off like that.


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Renegade said:


> I have more specific information.
> 
> We use a diurnal EPA venting system in order to comply with regulations. This is preferable over carbon canister vent filters because it doesn’t impact fill rates, doesn’t require maintenance, and doesn’t increase risk of water in fuel, which are all issues with canisters.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. A canister is a guaranteed future problem. Thanks to you and Kev for filling in the gaps. 

The boat continues to impress. Just got done washing her in the rain (actually made things easier).


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

Jason M said:


> Josh,
> 
> You're a stand up guy for coming in and explaining. I was not criticizing East Cape, I hope it didn't come off like that.


Not at all my friend.

I was just responding to the last relevant statement on the discussion.

The cap issue is a valid frustration. We are frustrated. It was important to Kevin, Adam and the staff that you all understood our predicament;
Lower our deliverable build quality to achieve a flush cap, or maintain our standards in favor of an inconvenience.

There is nothing easy about it. I’m sincere when I say, thanks for your patience. My boat is in infusion right now and will be sporting one of these caps as well.

I still wouldn’t trade my boat for any other bay boat on the market!


----------



## oceanrace (Oct 8, 2020)

JC Designs said:


> They don’t think, and there lies the problem!


Unfortunately the EPA does think about this stuff and they do have an agenda which entails going to completely fossil fuel free in the near future. Why all the car manufacturers are going to EVs, and why 12-valve cummins p-pumped are now valuable like gold LOL. Rabid green sickness is a main tool of the globalists. This fuel tank fill is yet another symptom of the sickness, and they will never stop. End goal is the slaves eating maggots and bugs, owning nothing. Watch that fly line!


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

My God. I had no idea of the conspiratorial scope and doomsday implications of this gas cap.


----------



## Travisc454 (5 mo ago)

Renegade said:


> 38 pages of tax payer funded reading that explains why we have to do this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is there any way around this? like sell the boat without a cap or fill lines/tubes and let it be "customer installed"?


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

Travisc454 said:


> Is there any way around this? like sell the boat without a cap or fill lines/tubes and let it be "customer installed"?


No. EPA compliance is a manufacturer's responsibility. That would be like asking Ford if they could leave off your catalytic converter so you could install it later.


----------



## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Probably not if the Coast Guard found out.... Yes, here in the fabulously wealthy western world (compared to every other place...) we do seem intent on strangling ourselves with regulations that make good sense (maybe) on paper - but in the real world where things actually have to work day after day and properly... you'd be laughing if you were a spectator... 

Seriously, just can't wait until November - it won't be a magic solution - but might just be a pretty good first step back away from more BS than I'd have ever thought possible... I'll say it again...Just can't wait until November....


----------



## GitFishin (May 10, 2019)

lemaymiami said:


> Probably not if the Coast Guard found out.... Yes, here in the fabulously wealthy western world (compared to every other place...) we do seem intent on strangling ourselves with regulations that make good sense (maybe) on paper - but in the real world where things actually have to work day after day and properly... you'd be laughing if you were a spectator...
> 
> Seriously, just can't wait until November - it won't be a magic solution - but might just be a pretty good first step back away from more BS than I'd have ever thought possible... I'll say it again...Just can't wait until November....


Even better we buy the majority of our goods from countries that don't adhere to all our regulations and therefore can make stuff cheaper


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Followup for those interested - think I found a solution. Very small (forgot the size think it's 1/16) rubber u-channel. Stuck in on the rim of the gas gap, gas cap closes fine. We'll see how it holds up. If it comes apart, next idea is split some small, thicker adhesive heat shrink I have and do the same thing with that (in the event the uchannel is still too thick).


----------



## jonny (May 1, 2007)

Well problem solved then


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

As soon as they did that, there would be a glut of flush vented caps suddenly available. I get it. That's how shit always works, isn't it?


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

Flush caps are available again 😬


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Lol!

Really?


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

MRichardson said:


> Lol!
> 
> Really?


Really. You can call Adam at the shop tomorrow to arrange getting one. They can in a few weeks ago.


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Awesome! Will do, thanks.


----------



## Redtail (May 25, 2021)

Renegade said:


> Really. You can call Adam at the shop tomorrow to arrange getting one. They can in a few weeks ago.


Just spoke with Adam, he says East Cape does not have flush fitting caps! Rather confusing. Anyone have a different experience?


----------



## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

Redtail said:


> Just spoke with Adam, he says East Cape does not have flush fitting caps! Rather confusing. Anyone have a different experience?


My mistake guys. I saw a boat in the shop with a flush cap the other week and made an assumption. It was a boat in for additional service. 

Sorry for the confusion!


----------



## Redtail (May 25, 2021)

MRichardson said:


> Followup for those interested - think I found a solution. Very small (forgot the size think it's 1/16) rubber u-channel. Stuck in on the rim of the gas gap, gas cap closes fine. We'll see how it holds up. If it comes apart, next idea is split some small, thicker adhesive heat shrink I have and do the same thing with that (in the event the uchannel is still too thick).


Was this sourced at an automotive parts supply?


----------



## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Redtail said:


> Was this sourced at an automotive parts supply?


I don't remember where I got it! I thought I ordered on Amazon, but looking thru my orders, it's not there. I recall searching online for the smallest u channel I could find. I did order it online, that much I do recall.

Something like this:



https://a.co/d/fTfTtMx


----------



## Redtail (May 25, 2021)

MRichardson said:


> I don't remember where I got it! I thought I ordered on Amazon, but looking thru my orders, it's not there. I recall searching online for the smallest u channel I could find. I did order it online, that much I do recall.
> 
> Something like this:
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll order some and try it.


----------

