# Ankona Boats



## AfterHours2

Ankona has been around this site since day 1. I have never seen any negative reviews. Customer service always seem to be top notch. The owner, Mel, chimes in every so often to answer any questions so I would not hesitate to become a customer...


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## [email protected]

Just out of curiosity, where was Archercraft located in Deland? Sorry to derail.


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## RonBari

We are into our third year with our SUV 17.  During that time there has been little need for follow up service, but every time I have called or stopped by I have been treated like the only customer of the day.  My brother bought his Ankona SUV 17 a year ago, so we have two in the family.  Yes.. I'd purchase from them again in a minute.  Great company, great boats, great people, great value..  Feel free to send me any specific questions via P.M.  My only affiliation with them is I am a satisfied customer.


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## jmrodandgun

I like mine. I didn't actively seek out an Ankona when I bought my boat. It just happened to be available. 

I've had a few questions for the manufacturer and most were answered pretty quick. The hull is holding up well. The hull is about 4 years old now and no structural issues despite some previous owner shenanigans. 

I can't find any issues with construction. The boat feels like it's made from quality materials, more so than some other skiffs I've been in recently. 

I would buy another Ankona, especially if they made a hull comparable to one of the no floor, no cap, tiller steer, no extra bs whipray hulls but with a Ankona SUV price tag.


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## CedarCreek

Two years ago I contacted several skiff manufacturers as a first-time skiff buyer (previously owned a 19 ft proline). Ankona was the only company to respond to that initial email/phone call inquiry. I told them what I was looking for and they recommended the SUV. Visited the company, took a test ride, and stuck with them through the waiting period (only 5 months then). As an out of state customer i didn't have the luxury to visit or wet test too many other options. I trusted my initial impression and have been very satisfied with the choice. I would definitely buy from them again but so far no issues so I am set.


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## cmacauley12

Sprucecreek,

Factory was off of International Speedway in a storage facility.


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## Bob_Rogers

> Just out of curiosity, where was Archercraft located in Deland? Sorry to derail.


329 Old Daytona Rd.


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## paint it black

I have owned two Copperhead in the past, and currently running a 17 Shadowcast and a Cayenne. I loved both Copperheads, and love the two skiffs that I have now. 

The only reason why I sold the other two is they were smart business moves. The first one was a Gen 1 copperhead, and a friend practically bullied me into selling it to him when the Gen 2 came out. When I say bullied me, he put a deposit in on a new one and convinced me that I'd sell him my Gen 1, and buy the Gen 2 when the build date was up. I came out of pocket a measly $2,000 to upgrade from a Gen one with a 30 hp Tohatsu to the Gen 2 with a 60 etec, and that was 19 months after I bought the Gen 1. Then, I had the Gen 2 Copperhead for two years when I was offered more money than I paid for it two years prior, so I sold it and got the current setups. 

I keep the Shadowcast on the east coast, where I mostly fish Flamingo, Biscayne Bay, and Islamorada. And the Cayenne stays on the west coast at our office in Naples for when we fish the west coast.

I love all the skiffs, I have never had any kind of issues with any of the hulls. They have all been structurally sound, even back when I used to be careless and run wide open in 30+ knot winds across WWB.


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## el9surf

I have owned many different skiffs including an Ankona. I sold my shadowcast because I needed a bigger boat to take my family out on. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one, they are built solid by good people. I would have bought another one but didn't want to wait.


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## pete_paschall

I have had my Copperhead for almost 3 years now and wouldn't give it up. I have 2 guys up here in NC who have already called "dibs" if I ever decide to sell it, and I told them I'd put them in my will...

I keep the boat in my garage, but people still remark on how it looks brand new. I've never had any regrets, and would buy another one with no reservation.

Pete


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## lopakapence

Hells Bay, which built one of the most successful and expensive line of boats went bankrupt after over 15 years of business. So if you bought one a year ago, you would be out of luck if you had a problem.


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## SilentHunter

They use top notch quality materials. Just because there cost effective materials, doesn't mean there cheap. Solid construction you wont crack a hull if thats your worry. Fit n finish depending on the model goes from a webbed interior on the suv verses the molded nonskid liners in the copperhead and cayenne. You get the best bang for the buck and then more.


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## ekimmicroskiff

i don't currently own an Ankona, but I had an SUV17 and loved it. Mel and family are good people that build a good boat.


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## MUD_MINNOW

I have owned my SC18 for over a year... It does more than what I ever thought possiable.

I had it for sale in hopes of buying a larger boat when we were blessed with our second child 10 months ago.. When the wife gave me the go ahead to keep it and buy a larger family boat...I quickly removed it from the market. I couldn't be more impressed by the quality and performance from Ankona. 

The price means nothing... I would put the quality of construction and performance of my SC18 up against any similar HB, BT, EEC... In it's class!!


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## patrickknight

not to put anyone down i'll just tell you why I gave my 2012 native away and will not buy another, the use of what I call ''honecomb'' board which is cheaper, floor seems spongy when I walked on it I hear crunching noise, gelcoat ''yellowed'' in about a month, seams around the interior including the console looked duct taped then glassed over and gelcoat looked brushed on, there was a butt joint that was raised up from the floor made the floor uneven. but there was good things too, lightweight, poled easy, pulled easy floated skinny


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## Shadowcast

I was an owner before I was a rep. I have had 2 SUV's and a ShadowCast 16. I have loved them all. Looks like a Cayenne will be coming my way in early 2015. Can't wait!


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## RonBari

FYI.. The yellowed gel coat was a result of trying a new type of clear coat that obviously did not work out and yellowed soon after delivery.  My understanding it that a few boats were affected during an approximate two or three month period of production during 2012.  Anyone who contacted Ankona about the problem was asked to drop their boats off for a couple of days and the problem was corrected.  No.. they're not perfect, but customer service and response is excellent.


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## Boerne

I just picked up my 18 SC this past week and drove it back to Texas. I had the opportunity to meet the entire Ankona family even got a VIP tour of the boats being made. Each of the members of the management team have a vested interest in making sure Ankona produces the best constructed boat bar none. And they deliver Customer Service like none others. AS you are doing now I did a fare amount of research before driving some 2600 miles and investing $$. I could not be happier


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## bermuda

I have had 2 Ankona's - First was a 2010 SUV 14 - nice skiff - the floor in it was fine - the spongy comment is BS - they just don't have a liner like some of the other models.  The only reason I sold it was I thought I needed a bigger boat.  After I got a bigger boat I realized I didn't need a bigger boat so I bought a Shadowcast 18 this year - really dig the shadowcast - exactly what I was looking for.

The boats are solid - had the SUV 14 in 4 footers in Florida Bay.


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## FredGrunwald

Not to derail but what kinda numbers are yall getting with the f70s on the copperheads and cayenne? btw my next boat will be an ankona these things are to good looking for the price not to want one


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## fastrack1

Just got a Copperhead a couple months ago and still learning the capabilities of this great little skiff. Been out just a few times but I've been seeing about 36-37 on the GPS with the Yamaha 70. Lightly loaded.

Great little boat. Floats in nothing. Quality seems good. Price can't be beat. Get compliments everywhere I go.


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## paint it black

> Just got a Copperhead a couple months ago and still learning the capabilities of this great little skiff.  Been out just a few times but I've been seeing about 36-37 on the GPS with the Yamaha 70.  Lightly loaded.
> 
> Great little boat.  Floats in nothing.  Quality seems good.  Price can't be beat.  Get compliments everywhere I go.


You should see higher speeds than that. What RPM's are you turning? I was doing 39-41 easily on my Copperhead with a 60 Etec spinning a 20 pitch Raker prop. 


I need to reprop the Cayenne, as I'm only gettin 4900-5100 RPM's on the F70 at a whopping 31 mph. With a Powertech prop. Can't remember which one it is, swc maybe?


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## fastrack1

> Just got a Copperhead a couple months ago and still learning the capabilities of this great little skiff.  Been out just a few times but I've been seeing about 36-37 on the GPS with the Yamaha 70.  Lightly loaded.
> 
> Great little boat.  Floats in nothing.  Quality seems good.  Price can't be beat.  Get compliments everywhere I go.
> 
> 
> 
> You should see higher speeds than that. What RPM's are you turning? I was doing 39-41 easily on my Copperhead with a 60 Etec spinning a 20 pitch Raker prop.
> 
> 
> I need to reprop the Cayenne, as I'm only gettin 4900-5100 RPM's on the F70 at a whopping 31 mph. With a Powertech prop. Can't remember which one it is, swc maybe?
Click to expand...

I'll report back next time I'm out, which sadly might not be for a couple weeks.


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## cmacauley12

Thanks for all the input on Ankona. NOW the real decision is which model? I have narrowed it down between the Cayenne and Copperhead. Not really sure the major difference between the 2. The SC looks like a great skiff but not as finished as I like with storage etc. Plus I would like a center console and really like the size and look Ankona offers.


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## capt_gordon

I've got the first production Copperhead that was ever made in 2008. Still using it and not planning on getting rid of it.I recommend their boats wholeheartedly.


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## paint it black

> Thanks for all the input on Ankona. NOW the real decision is which model? I have narrowed it down between the Cayenne and Copperhead. Not really sure the major difference between the 2. The SC looks like a great skiff but not as finished as I like with storage etc. Plus I would like a center console and really like the size and look Ankona offers.



Honestly, I always saw the Cayenne as a much bigger boat than the Copperhead, so I leaned toward the Copperhead. I owned two Copperhead's, then went to the Shadowcast, and a Cayenne. I figured if I have a small boat, I can go for the larger Cayenne and not worry about getting the in between boat. But the Cayenne has performed as good as the Copperhead in just about every category. I sometimes wish I still had the Copperhead, as that boat was a big part of such great memories throughout the years, but the same will come with these two skiffs. 

To me, It's a wash. They both perform great. If you want a little more speed, go for the Copperhead. It's also more stable than the Cayenne due to the fact that it doesn't have a tunnel. If you want a little more real estate (bigger skiff) go with the Cayenne. You'll be surprised as to how well they out perform some of the other guys.


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## snookman716

Erin, Mel and everyone else at Ankona are great people always willing to do whatever is needed to have their customers happy, great customer service. I owned a 2014 SC18 and i liked it a lot it got the job done and it did what i wanted it to do. I sold it mainly cause it was a little small for what i wanted but it floated skinny got into some places that most skiffs cant get to and was a fun skiff. It did have some flaws and the fit and finish wasnt of my taste but you get what you pay for. Overall they're nice skiffs and the people behind the company are good hearted and very helpful people.


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## lov2play

RonBari said:


> We are into our third year with our SUV 17. During that time there has been little need for follow up service, but every time I have called or stopped by I have been treated like the only customer of the day. My brother bought his Ankona SUV 17 a year ago, so we have two in the family. Yes.. I'd purchase from them again in a minute. Great company, great boats, great people, great value.. Feel free to send me any specific questions via P.M. My only affiliation with them is I am a satisfied customer.


I am consider to become a motor boating newbie. Can you give me any advice in regards to the SUV 14 or 17. I am thinking about the 14, since it will be just me 95% on it. And also what kind of motor to get? Thanks!


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## jlindsley

cmacauley12 said:


> I see this is a very pro Ankona forum. I have to ask as a general consensus from Ankona owners how do you feel about the overall quality of the boat. And would you buy another.
> The reason I ask is years ago I bought a flats boat from a small factory in Deland called Archercraft. Within 1 year the boat hull split and the boat sank while running in calm water and was a total loss. Of course the factory was out of business and the owner gone.


I have a SM1656 on order right now from them. If you visit the facility and meet them you would have no hesitation moving forward. It is quite difficult to find a boat manufacturer with little to no complaints and ankona is one of these.
Customer service is unbelievable (response time etc) and they truly take *pride* in their work.


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## WillW

Let me first say this post isn't meant to bash but is only my opinion. The people at Ankona are great folks & very very accommodating. Their skiff is well made for the $ & floats skinny. I owned a gen 2 copperhead. Fishy little boat that was a great starter skiff. The fit & finish was not ideal. Where the hatches were cut out they showed places where a saw had run too far & created a slice. Gaps between cap & hull. Trolling motor battery holder pulled off of decking. Knit picking I know but when you spend a certain amount of $, then you want a certain degree of detailed attention. Gel coat was very easy to chip. There again consider cost. My main 2 performance issues were: Bow steer, which was significant. Also a wet riding little sucker. Again this isn't intended to bash. I loved that skiff but as I stated there were just some particular things that I didn't like about it. As we all know NO skiffs are perfect


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## lov2play

JOHN LINDSLEY said:


> I have a
> 
> 
> JOHN LINDSLEY said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a SM1656 on order right now from them. If you visit the facility and meet them you would have no hesitation moving forward. It is quite difficult to find a boat manufacturer with little to no complaints and ankona is one of these.
> Customer service is unbelievable (response time etc) and they truly take *pride* in their work.
> 
> 
> 
> on order right now from them. If you visit the facility and meet them you would have no hesitation moving forward. It is quite difficult to find a boat manufacturer with little to no complaints and ankona is one of these.
> Customer service is unbelievable (response time etc) and they truly take *pride* in their work.
Click to expand...




JOHN LINDSLEY said:


> I have a SM1656 on order right now from them. If you visit the facility and meet them you would have no hesitation moving forward. It is quite difficult to find a boat manufacturer with little to no complaints and ankona is one of these.
> Customer service is unbelievable (response time etc) and they truly take *pride* in their work.


What is the SM1656?


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## JappyFish

Isn't a modified bay boat in the works for Ankona? When I was looking for my first skiff, I leaned heavily toward a Jones Brothers for the versatility.

It would be nice if they came out with a modified bay boat that would fish all over and that you could somehow pole.

Of course, that would totally crush the market...


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## lov2play

WillW said:


> Let me first say this post isn't meant to bash but is only my opinion. The people at Ankona are great folks & very very accommodating. Their skiff is well made for the $ & floats skinny. I owned a gen 2 copperhead. Fishy little boat that was a great starter skiff. The fit & finish was not ideal. Where the hatches were cut out they showed places where a saw had run too far & created a slice. Gaps between cap & hull. Trolling motor battery holder pulled off of decking. Knit picking I know but when you spend a certain amount of $, then you want a certain degree of detailed attention. Gel coat was very easy to chip. There again consider cost. My main 2 performance issues were: Bow steer, which was significant. Also a wet riding little sucker. Again this isn't intended to bash. I loved that skiff but as I stated there were just some particular things that I didn't like about it. As we all know NO skiffs are perfect


Can you recommend any other small boats? Thanks...


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## lov2play

Can you recommend other small boats you like ?


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## trekker

lov2play said:


> What is the SM1656?


Google Salt Marsh skiff.


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## trekker

Ive been in contact with them as well. The response time is faster than a fire department's.

Havent pulled the trigger yet, but 90% sure i will soon.


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## yobata

JappyFish said:


> Isn't a modified bay boat in the works for Ankona?


Ankona used to make a boat called the Tortuga that was more of a "flats" boat than a micro. Here is one for sale in Miami area https://miami.craigslist.org/brw/boa/5319261188.html


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## Fish_specialist

lov2play said:


> Can you recommend any other small boats? Thanks...



Cayo!!!!


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## prinjm6

My good friend I fish with just took delivery of his 2015 SUV17. He is a little disappointed in it, stability isn't as advertised. He was unable to wet test one as manufacturer didn't have one and couldn't find an owner but trusted in builders claim. He asked for live well to have no standpipe, it has standpipe. If you go with Ankona make sure to opt for hydraulic steering as it is not a standard feature, my friend wishes he had payed a little closer attention or they had asked if that was an option he would have liked. I asked him if he would buy another Ankona his response was no. Other than that it is a good skiff, it will get you skinny and in a new boat for what a used ECC, HB or BT would cost you. My advice is to run a lot of different boats as everyone's opinion varies.


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## lov2play

That is good to know. Thanks for sharing this information, because I also considered getting one.


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## FlatsBoss

I have a Shadowcast 16 and it is a great little skiff. The build quality is tight and and was fitted-out very clean. It poles in the shallowest of water and rides really nice for a boat of its size. I couldn't ask for anything more from it or the manufacturers.


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## Fish_specialist

I had a copperhead-
To be straight to the point without being mean, I would not recommend an Ankona. Great people, but lacking in the quality department. I have spoken with others who have said exactly the same thing. The people who have had experiences like mine are not likely publicly voice it for fear of criticism.


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## lov2play

Fish_specialist said:


> I had a copperhead-
> To be straight to the point without being mean, I would not recommend an Ankona. Great people, but lacking in the quality department. I have spoken with others who have said exactly the same thing. The people who have had experiences like mine are not likely publicly voice it for fear of criticism.


Thank you for your input...really appreciate it.


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## copperhead

_To be straight to the point without being mean, I would not recommend an Ankona. Great people, but lacking in the quality department._

I'm quite disappointed that your experience with us did not meet your expectations. If you had any issues with your skiff why did you not contact us? When a customer has an issue with a new skiff, getting it corrected is the highest priority at Ankona. But we can't do anything if you don't call and I feel rather blindsided by your comment. 

The new owner of your boat brought it in the shop awhile ago to add his own touches and is quite happy with it and did not bring up any issues about the skiff.

Although you no longer have the skiff, I would appreciate it if you would give us a call or drop us an email with what concerns you had so I can address them.....

Thanks,

Mel


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## jonterr

Fish_specialist said:


> I had a copperhead-
> To be straight to the point without being mean, I would not recommend an Ankona. Great people, but lacking in the quality department. I have spoken with others who have said exactly the same thing. The people who have had experiences like mine are not likely publicly voice it for fear of criticism.


Wow!
Boat rocker!!!
Ha!
I had 1 as well!
I was on the tentative list for a new build a couple of years ago, when Erin clued me in on a great used 1,the owner had unfortunately passed away!
I had heard of the boats for a year or so on this forum, and wanted one! I made the 9 hr drive, spent the night, purchased the boat the next morning, and pulled it back home to the Ga mtns , only hearing it run on a water hose!
Mel gave me a tour of the shop!
Over the next few months, Erin helped me get some items that I wanted to add, rod holders, P T prop , etc! She shipped them to my door, and I didn't even purchase the boat from them!
They made nothing from my purchase!
I was very impressed with the quality of people they are!
I ended up keeping the boat for about a year, and sold it for what I paid for it!
I never poled it, never had the opportunity, but I sure would like to have it back!!!


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## Fish_specialist

copperhead said:


> _To be straight to the point without being mean, I would not recommend an Ankona. Great people, but lacking in the quality department._
> 
> I'm quite disappointed that your experience with us did not meet your expectations. If you had any issues with your skiff why did you not contact us? When a customer has an issue with a new skiff, getting it corrected is the highest priority at Ankona. But we can't do anything if you don't call and I feel rather blindsided by your comment.
> 
> The new owner of your boat brought it in the shop awhile ago to add his own touches and is quite happy with it and did not bring up any issues about the skiff.
> 
> Although you no longer have the skiff, I would appreciate it if you would give us a call or drop us an email with what concerns you had so I can address them.....
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mel



I'll compose a private message to discuss the issues I had. I addressed several problems with Erin and Rory that went unresolved.


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## Miamiflats

Fish_specialist said:


> I'll compose a private message to discuss the issues I had. I addressed several problems with Erin and Rory that went unresolved.



Without stirring the pot. I think everyone on the board would appreciate knowing what your major concerns/problems were with your ankona. I feel like the whole point of this board is to help fellow anglers out. It's not about being mean. If someone is considering a purchase the information they get from previous owners be they satisfied or otherwise is invaluable.


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## jonterr

Miamiflats said:


> Without stirring the pot. I think everyone on the board would appreciate knowing what your major concerns/problems were with your ankona. I feel like the whole point of this board is to help fellow anglers out. It's not about being mean. If someone is considering a purchase the information they get from previous owners be they satisfied or otherwise is invaluable.


Yep


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## Indoman

I've had my SM 1656 for about 8 months and love it. Would not hesitate to buy another boat from Mel and family. Even after delivery, response time from Rose is way quick. As someone who spent 20 years in retail customer service at all levels, my expectations for customer service are very high. Ankona/Salt Marsh not only meet but exceed my very high standards. 

It's all about price point. You can't expect to pay $8-10k and get the fit and finish of a Maverick, Hells Bay etc. Does my 1656 have the fit and finish of a top tier boat? Nope. ...and I don't think Mel would try and tell you they do.
But from a structural quality standpoint, so far mine seems to be a beast. Coming from a 22 Pathfinder I had custom built and ran for 10 years I've had to get used to a different level of cosmetic finish. I went from a Mercedes SUV to a Subaru SUV. Both very capable vehicles that will last forever but few would argue the finish on the Subaru is at the same level as the Merc. I like to tinker so investing some sweat equity in mine not only improves a great product (again, think price point) but makes it MINE.

Guys who buy a boat before wet testing it are just asking to be disappointed. Can't imagine doing that. Would you buy a car without a test drive?


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## jonterr

Indoman said:


> I've had my SM 1656 for about 8 months and love it. Would not hesitate to buy another boat from Mel and family. Even after delivery, response time from Rose is way quick. As someone who spent 20 years in retail customer service at all levels, my expectations for customer service are very high. Ankona/Salt Marsh not only meet but exceed my very high standards.
> 
> It's all about price point. You can't expect to pay $8-10k and get the fit and finish of a Maverick, Hells Bay etc. Does my 1656 have the fit and finish of a top tier boat? Nope. ...and I don't think Mel would try and tell you they do.
> But from a structural quality standpoint, so far mine seems to be a beast. Coming from a 22 Pathfinder I had custom built and ran for 10 years I've had to get used to a different level of cosmetic finish. I went from a Mercedes SUV to a Subaru SUV. Both very capable vehicles that will last forever but few would argue the finish on the Subaru is at the same level as the Merc. I like to tinker so investing some sweat equity in mine not only improves a great product (again, think price point) but makes it MINE.
> 
> Guys who buy a boat before wet testing it are just asking to be disappointed. Can't imagine doing that. Would you buy a car without a test drive?


I would!
Bought the Copperhead , and had never even been in one!
Over the last 20 yrs I bought 8 new cars or trucks, didn't test drive any of them!
Also bought 2 new skiffs, without trying em out!
No prob!
But that's just me!


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## lov2play

copperhead said:


> _To be straight to the point without being mean, I would not recommend an Ankona. Great people, but lacking in the quality department._
> 
> I'm quite disappointed that your experience with us did not meet your expectations. If you had any issues with your skiff why did you not contact us? When a customer has an issue with a new skiff, getting it corrected is the highest priority at Ankona. But we can't do anything if you don't call and I feel rather blindsided by your comment.
> 
> The new owner of your boat brought it in the shop awhile ago to add his own touches and is quite happy with it and did not bring up any issues about the skiff.
> 
> Although you no longer have the skiff, I would appreciate it if you would give us a call or drop us an email with what concerns you had so I can address them.....
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mel


Good to know that you guys care. I am considering getting one of your boats, thinking about which one to get....


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## Blatattack

lopakapence said:


> Hells Bay, which built one of the most successful and expensive line of boats went bankrupt after over 15 years of business. So if you bought one a year ago, you would be out of luck if you had a problem.


WTF are you talking about? Hells Bay went bankrupt and was bought from the bank by the current owners. Not sure on exact date but hells bay has been pumping boats out the door for awhile.....


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## Sublime

Indoman said:


> Guys who buy a boat before wet testing it are just asking to be disappointed. Can't imagine doing that. Would you buy a car without a test drive?


Lol. I wet tested a Beavertail in 2006 before I ordered mine. I knew nothing about poling skiffs, so I don't know how objective I really was. I kept that boat for 9 years and loved it. My Glades X that I have on order from Harry I did not wet test. My friend who is a guide tested one and then he and I talked and I pulled the trigger. I'm not worried about it one bit. But that's me.


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## Net 30

lopakapence said:


> Hells Bay, which built one of the most successful and expensive line of boats went bankrupt after over 15 years of business. So if you bought one a year ago, you would be out of luck if you had a problem.


Do some research so you don't look so stupid….jeez.


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## mxbeebop

Fish_specialist said:


> Cayo!!!!


X2 The Cayo is one awesome skiff


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## Megalops

jonterr said:


> I would!
> Bought the Copperhead , and had never even been in one!
> Over the last 20 yrs I bought 8 new cars or trucks, didn't test drive any of them!
> Also bought 2 new skiffs, without trying em out!
> No prob!
> But that's just me!


Are you in the market for a house?


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## jonterr

Megalops said:


> Are you in the market for a house?


Is it new?
Ha!


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## Indoman

Sublime said:


> Lol. I wet tested a Beavertail in 2006 before I ordered mine. I knew nothing about poling skiffs, so I don't know how objective I really was. I kept that boat for 9 years and loved it. My Glades X that I have on order from Harry I did not wet test. My friend who is a guide tested one and then he and I talked and I pulled the trigger. I'm not worried about it one bit. But that's me.



Sublime- What kind of build time on the Glades X? Cool looking rig. I really like the Low Tide Guide. May be one to consider if/when I decide to go a little bigger someday.


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## Fish_specialist

Miamiflats said:


> Without stirring the pot. I think everyone on the board would appreciate knowing what your major concerns/problems were with your ankona. I feel like the whole point of this board is to help fellow anglers out. It's not about being mean. If someone is considering a purchase the information they get from previous owners be they satisfied or otherwise is invaluable.





jonterr said:


> Yep



You guys want blood!! Haha!!! 

In all honesty I'd like to keep it civil. My statement was simple in that I would not recommend Ankona. 

I pm'ed Mel- Although, he has not been to visit Microskiff since Saturday. Does anyone have Mel's DIRECT email address??


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## Wolffie

So. I have a few of the details that fish specialist pm'd me. I asked... And it's something I'll be conscious of especially since I'm an 11 hour drive from Ft. pierce. It's his story to handle how he wants to handle it. I commend him for that! 

That said, I still intend to try and wet test a cayenne and salt marsh low country soon. For my budget they could be exactly what I need...

Many years ago, my Dad bought a Nautor Swan 44 MKIV. Custom built, new from the factory in Finland. I hate to say, it had a lot of problems. Some major problems that didn't surface until somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic on its voyage home. Others didn't appear until somewhere between the Galapagos and Tahiti... That's was an $800k boat at the time... With a 5 year wait... It doesn't matter how much it cost. 

My last guide trip to Biscayne bay the guide was hot over build and rigging issues with his HB Marquesa... He was pissed, but conceded that all boats have their issues. 

I'm still going to check out Ankona/Salt Marsh. Along with a couple others...


----------



## BMPDave2013

I have owned a boat of some sort for almost 30 years including Wellcraft, Seacraft, Sea Hunt, Key West and Sea Ray. I ordered my Ankona Native 17 October 2013 after looking at Release boats at the shows and Boggy Creek boats at the factory. These skiffs were in the price range of what I wanted to spend. I took delivery of my Native July 1 of 2014. I knew Ankona, Release and Boggy Creek were not Hells Bay, Dragon Fly, Hewes or Bonefish eye candy yet I'm out there right beside any of those skiffs fishing the same skinny water and I could not be happier with the decision I made. I had an issue with gel coat that I noticed after bringing my Native home and Rory drove from Ft Pierce to my home in the Tampa Bay area a couple days later to fix it!!!. I feel confidant my Native will last for years, and that I will get support from Ankona when requested.Yes I could I have bought the Hells Bay, Dragon Fly, Hewes or Bonefish...but didn't feel the need.


----------



## prinjm6

BMPDave2013 said:


> I have owned a boat of some sort for almost 30 years including Wellcraft, Seacraft, Sea Hunt, Key West and Sea Ray. I ordered my Ankona Native 17 October 2013 after looking at Release boats at the shows and Boggy Creek boats at the factory. These skiffs were in the price range of what I wanted to spend. I took delivery of my Native July 1 of 2014. I knew Ankona, Release and Boggy Creek were not Hells Bay, Dragon Fly, Hewes or Bonefish eye candy yet I'm out there right beside any of those skiffs fishing the same skinny water and I could not be happier with the decision I made. I had an issue with gel coat that I noticed after bringing my Native home and Rory drove from Ft Pierce to my home in the Tampa Bay area a couple days later to fix it!!!. I feel confidant my Native will last for years, and that I will get support from Ankona when requested.Yes I could I have bought the Hells Bay, Dragon Fly, Hewes or Bonefish...but didn't feel the need.


Yes the Native will get you as skinny but, you don't have the storage of other skiffs, live well capacity (Ankona SUV won't hold upper slot reds without tails curved to fit and they die), it isn't as stable as other skiffs. Two adults on the back corner and water is on the deck. I noticed on my friends 2015 he took delivery of less than a month ago that his gel coat was already oxidizing and in need of a thorough waxing. I'm glad I chose to buy a used higher end skiff over going with a new Ankona after witnessing his experience. To each their own, it's not my money to spend.


----------



## tomahawk

Fish_specialist said:


> I pm'ed Mel- Although, he has not been to visit Microskiff since Saturday. Does anyone have Mel's DIRECT email address??


Your best bet is to call the shop. I've pmed Mel before and never got a response.


----------



## jmrodandgun

prinjm6 said:


> Yes the Native will get you as skinny but, you don't have the storage of other skiffs, live well capacity (Ankona SUV won't hold upper slot reds without tails curved to fit and they die), it isn't as stable as other skiffs. Two adults on the back corner and water is on the deck. I noticed on my friends 2015 he took delivery of less than a month ago that his gel coat was already oxidizing and in need of a thorough waxing. I'm glad I chose to buy a used higher end skiff over going with a new Ankona after witnessing his experience. To each their own, it's not my money to spend.


For what it's worth, despite all the crazy issues I had, I really like my SUV. The concept is a good one and they executed that concept very well. Never mind all the fitment debates, if you're into the shiny bits then obviously you're going to find issues. The live well for example should have been no surprise, you know how big a redfish is and you know well before hand how big the live well will be, it's a no brainer. I can't comment on taking on water with two peolpe on the rear deck corner. I'm not sure why you would want to stand there in the first place but I've had two guys on the the rear deck of my 14 while dealing with a big red and didn't have any water issues. 

The boat itself is built of very very good materials and with a little maintenance it should outlast it's owners. It's a rock solid little boat, it floats skinny (in my case it draws about 4+ inches with someone on the bow), it's runs pretty quick with a 25 2 smoke. It's not really the best handling things on the water so when you're in a twisty creek or heavy chop you need to back off the throttle a little bit and slow down. I can't really fault Ankona for that. Great handling characteristics are a product of lots of R&D and research is very very expensive. That cost trickles down to the final product which takes away from the concept I mentioned earlier. That extra cost would make dragging my boat over oysters and across sand bars much more painful. In a weird kind of way I am proud of some of the scars on my hull. I wear my gelcoat chips like a badge of honor. I once drifted into a barnacle covered crab trap while trying to land my first 30 pound redfish and it dug into the paint on my transom. I touched up the scratches with expoxy and with a sharpie wrote the date and "31.6 lbs" next to the deep gouges. There are lots of pretty boats in this world, they aren't a rarity. They are at every boat ramp in America. Someone always has something shiny and new. I'm not trying to be a part of that, I'm just trying to be me. 

Do I wish I had a little better support from Ankona? Yeah, maybe, but I didn't really put much effort into it. I needed the boat fixed and I didn't have time to wait around. Anything they would have done for me they would have done on their own free time since I was out of warranty and not the original owner. These are busy folks and there is no way they can entertain every little problem that pop up 4 or 5 year post production. I can't fault them for that.


----------



## sjrobin

Yeah JM if you don't have any dings or scratches on the skiff gelcoat you are not chasing redfish in LA or TX. Still tough to hear the oyster grind on a new hull though. Water clarity good down there with the flood coming down?


----------



## jmrodandgun

Everything is looking pretty good where I fish. I don't mess around with Venice or the areas directly to the west of the mouth of the river so it's hard for me to say one way or the other. They are about to open the spillway so Lake Ponchatrain will get a lot of river water. Not sure how that will impact Hopedale but I would think it wouldn't mess with it too much. I could be wrong. The water hasn't been this high since 2011 and I didn't own a boat in 2011 so It's hard for me to know.


----------



## BMPDave2013

prinjm6 said:


> Yes the Native will get you as skinny but, you don't have the storage of other skiffs, live well capacity (Ankona SUV won't hold upper slot reds without tails curved to fit and they die), it isn't as stable as other skiffs. Two adults on the back corner and water is on the deck. I noticed on my friends 2015 he took delivery of less than a month ago that his gel coat was already oxidizing and in need of a thorough waxing. I'm glad I chose to buy a used higher end skiff over going with a new Ankona after witnessing his experience. To each their own, it's not my money to spend.


How much crap do you need to catch fish. If someone needs more storage for fishing and boating equipment than what my Native has then they are overthinking what is realistically needed on any given day...IMO. I don't tournament fish so if an upper slot red or any legal size fish stays on the boat they will die and make an awesome dinner!  Its a great boat for the price that's all I'm trying to say.


----------



## makin moves

My suv 17 has a live well that will hold slot reds and I have never had one coming close to dying. Depends on the features you choose.


----------



## prinjm6

makin moves said:


> My suv 17 has a live well that will hold slot reds and I have never had one coming close to dying. Depends on the features you choose.


We put a 26.5" red and 24" red in live well and both died. After my buddy Josh had even asked Ankona to not put a sandpipe in they did. Granted he shouldn't have taken delivery until they fixed the problem why he did I cannot answer. Maybe it's the 5hr drive from the factory and lack of paid time from work to drive back down, idk. 

May want to look at the bottom of my Lostmen, we can compare scars. I don't cringe at all, it's the bottom of the hull and it's just gelcoat, it can be made pretty again once it's bad enough. My point was and you can go back and relax read my previous comment on page 3, a close friend just bought his new and he wishes he would have just waited and purchase a used ECC, HB or BT for what he paid.


----------



## Backwater

prinjm6 said:


> We put a 26.5" red and 24" red in live well and both died. After my buddy Josh had even asked Ankona to not put a sandpipe in they did. Granted he shouldn't have taken delivery until they fixed the problem why he did I cannot answer. Maybe it's the 5hr drive from the factory and lack of paid time from work to drive back down, idk.
> 
> May want to look at the bottom of my Lostmen, we can compare scars. I don't cringe at all, it's the bottom of the hull and it's just gelcoat, it can be made pretty again once it's bad enough. My point was and you can go back and relax read my previous comment on page 3, a close friend just bought his new and he wishes he would have just waited and purchase a used ECC, HB or BT for what he paid.


What area do you live in and when did you have those reds in the livewell (what date)?


----------



## prinjm6

Backwater said:


> What area do you live in and when did you have those reds in the livewell (what date)?


Fernandina beach this past Friday. I'm not sure where you're going but it was 66 degree water, not mid summer. Which even so shouldn't matter. I don't lose fish with 4 in my 25gal live well anytime of year. 

Also want to add I suggested my friend look into the Copperhead over the SUV. As far as the storage it's nice having a built in cooler or that extra dry storage for camping/camera/rain gear. Not to mention USCG required safety equipment, being able to store all of that away instead of a cluttered cockpit is nice. It's called versatility and something I wanted in my skiff.


----------



## sjrobin

Thank you JM.


----------



## Backwater

prinjm6 said:


> Fernandina beach this past Friday. I'm not sure where you're going but it was 66 degree water, not mid summer. Which even so shouldn't matter. I don't lose fish with 4 in my 25gal live well anytime of year.
> 
> Also want to add I suggested my friend look into the Copperhead over the SUV. As far as the storage it's nice having a built in cooler or that extra dry storage for camping/camera/rain gear. Not to mention USCG required safety equipment, being able to store all of that away instead of a cluttered cockpit is nice. It's called versatility and something I wanted in my skiff.


Oh ok. If you were in and around the Tampa Bay area, we've been having spots of red tide moving around and that could have contributed to your fish kill in your live well, if, that were the case. Ok just checking. 

One thing he might check is the livewell pump volume rating. 2 grown fish in a shallow release well will burn thru more O2 faster than you can imagine. 800gpm's don't quite cut it. Even 1100gpm's may not be enough. Also, do you have a high speed water pickup? That helps, as well as a system that put's more O2 in the water as opposed to a regular pump with a standard outlet into the release well. Is it rectangle or oval? That makes a difference as well.


----------



## Megalops

Backwater's correct, you need a high speed pick up or scoop for the livewell. I don't have one and mine stops pulling water around 10mph. Not an issue since I don't fish tourneys.


----------



## Backwater

Megalops said:


> Backwater's correct, you need a high speed pick up or scoop for the livewell. I don't have one and mine stops pulling water around 10mph. Not an issue since I don't fish tourneys.


Thanks Joe! Those are fairly inexpensive and not hard to DIY install them.


----------



## jonterr

Fish_specialist said:


> You guys want blood!! Haha!!!
> 
> In all honesty I'd like to keep it civil. My statement was simple in that I would not recommend Ankona.
> 
> I pm'ed Mel- Although, he has not been to visit Microskiff since Saturday. Does anyone have Mel's DIRECT email address??


I don't think any one wants blood!
It's just that , with all the posts, 1 negative , over rides all the positives!
If u really have any legitimate issues, what are they?
I think they good folks!!!


----------



## coconutgroves

prinjm6 said:


> We put a 26.5" red and 24" red in live well and both died. After my buddy Josh had even asked Ankona to not put a sandpipe in they did. Granted he shouldn't have taken delivery until they fixed the problem why he did I cannot answer. Maybe it's the 5hr drive from the factory and lack of paid time from work to drive back down, idk.


I have an easy solution for you - release the fish. But if you are going to eat them, why not just put them on ice? Unless you fish tourneys, I don't see any reason to keep a fish like that alive in a well. I unhooked my well, but then again, I release pretty much everything I catch. Unless it is a black drum. They must die.


----------



## Backwater

coconutgroves said:


> I have an easy solution for you - release the fish. But if you are going to eat them, why not just put them on ice? Unless you fish tourneys, I don't see any reason to keep a fish like that alive in a well. I unhooked my well, but then again, I release pretty much everything I catch. Unless it is a black drum. They must die.


Unfortunately, you'll find that a lot of non-tourney fishermen will use the release well to "upgrade the fish" to get the most "bring home" they can get. Most people don't understand the stress that release wells have on a fish. But my experience is it's difficult to teach people.


----------



## coconutgroves

If it's within the regs, I don't argue it. That doesn't mean I don't agree with it. Regulations have been wrong numerous times (striped bass on the east coast, trout on the texas coast), but that is another thread.

I've had way too many friends, acquaintances and so forth that throw fish away from their freezers every year. I started breaking their balls over it. I changed a few minds and they take a whole lot less now. But I just ask everyone to ask themselves, is this fish better off on a plate, or better off reproducing? Black drum are rampant here in some areas of the TX coast - they are better off on a plate. Lion fish in the Caribbean - better off as fish tacos or fish fingers. Brown trout on the Frying Pan in CO? Over populated in recent history where they were choking out the rainbows. We ate them. It's about balance.

Backwater - if it is about upgrading the meat for the day, then that's ridiculous. Make the call with fish in hand if you are keeping it or not. Put it on ice and be done with it. You do risk killing the fish later on, regardless of the live well unless you are running a large boat with adequate room and a continuous circulation.

This thread is more thank likely now flammable. Weather sucks here and has me pissed off - luckily I can put my beer outside and it stays cold. That's the only good thing.


----------



## yobata

I have venison in the freezer from a year ago that someone gave me, should I curry it?


----------



## coconutgroves

yobata said:


> I have venison in the freezer from a year ago that someone gave me, should I curry it?


No, you should eat it. Let us know how it tastes...  

prinjm6 - don't take it personal - I was responding to what backwater said some people do. He didn't say you and I didn't refer to you personally either.


----------



## jonterr

So
How did we get from Ankona, to fish killing?


----------



## Edfish

jonterr said:


> So
> How did we get from Ankona, to fish killing?


I believe the link was allegedly not enough storage in ankona skiffs for 347lbs of red snapper harvest by conservationalist-minded anglers. Did I get that right?

Sorry, just kidding. I appreciate reading the opinions. I chose between a my current boat and an suv17, and went with my towee based largely on cost. If I did it again I'd probably get the ankona, in large part because I really like trying things that are new to me, and I believe I'd enjoy experiencing a different skiff. Sounds like many people really like the boats and that Mel and company are great to work with.


----------



## Megalops

yobata said:


> I have venison in the freezer from a year ago that someone gave me, should I curry it?


Grind it and make sausage - thats what I'd do.


----------



## coconutgroves

jonterr said:


> So
> How did we get from Ankona, to fish killing?





prinjm6 said:


> We put a 26.5" red and 24" red in live well and both died.


FWIW, here is the fish bag I stow on the boat - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C500BLQ

Less expensive than some other brands and it can hold larger fish. I roll it up and wrap it with a bungee in the bow hold and bust it out when needed. That way I can use what should be the livewell as storage. I'd rather have storage over a live well any day.


----------



## jonterr

coconutgroves said:


> FWIW, here is the fish bag I stow on the boat - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C500BLQ
> 
> Less expensive than some other brands and it can hold larger fish. I roll it up and wrap it with a bungee in the bow hold and bust it out when needed. That way I can use what should be the livewell as storage. I'd rather have storage over a live well any day.


----------



## Shadowcast

I will address some points.....disclaimer....I am a sales rep for Ankona. However, I was an Ankona skiff owner before I was a rep.

1. Storage. The Ankona boats are technical poling skiffs. Not flats boats. These boats are designed for 2 or 3 anglers with minimal gear and provisions. When you are buying a small skiff (15-18 LOA <72" beam), regardless of brand, you know that its purpose in life is to float in skinny water, pole quietly, give you a decent ride and get you to fish that those in larger skiffs cannot reach. If you want to take the sun, moon, and stars with you on a fishing trip then you need a bigger skiff, i.e. a Redfisher 18, an Action Craft 1820, Sundance F19, HPX 18V, BT BTX....take your pick. But notice each of those skiffs are bigger flats boats-style skiffs. They are not skiffs you are poling all day long and they are not skiffs that are getting you in 7" of water or less. Ankona boats are made and designed to get you in skinny water. If storage is your concern, then you have to get creative with your skiff build. I always say to potential customers, that on these skiffs, dry storage is at a premium. If you are building an SC 16 or 18 and you don't put in a center mounted guide box, your only storage would be under the front deck and in a top hatch on the rear deck. The same holds true with any of the Ankona skiffs. A center mounted guide box adds a great deal more storage space on can also double as a livewell. If you have a livewell on your skiff, and it is used frequently, you have just eliminated space that can be used for dry storage, unless your livewell is not in use. If you have a center console, a jump seat can add more dry storage. 

My point of all this is that if you are concerned about having enough storage and livewell or release well space, then you need to do you due diligence and see what the skiff company offers in options. You only have so much room in a 15-18' skiff that can be used. If you are running out of space for your stuff, or do not have large enough live wells or release wells, then you bought the wrong boat! That is not the manufacturers problem...that's your problem for not doing your homework and not really analyzing what you need versus what the skiff is capable of. 

My first three Ankona skiffs were designed to be minimalist skiffs. I took very little gear and rarely used live bait. The rear deck and guide box in my Natives were more than enough storage for what I brought. Jackets and throwable lived up under the front deck. In building my Cayenne, I had to take new factors into consideration. My kids are a little older and like to go fishing so I needed to think about their preferences and needs. So I now have a livewell. I wanted seating for them and my wife...so I got a jump seat which adds more storage. I rarely use the livewell, so when it's empty, I use it as dry storage. Jackets and throwable are under the front deck. If I take my crate mate tackle box, it is the only thing laying in the cockpit. I can probably put the individual tackle boxes in the jump seat to eliminate that. No casting platform so my Yeti 50 does double duty. Everything I could possibly need for a day, and then some, fits on my Cayenne and does the job. So to those that run out of room on their Ankona.....to quote Chief Brody, "You're gonna need a bigger boat!"

2. Ankona versus the others. I will never bash another skiff company. I love the skiffs that Hell's Bay, East Cape, Beavertail, Maverick and others put out. They are great boats for those that select to buy them. I will say this, and I said it a million times at the FS Expo in Tampa back in October (my skiff was in the "Best Boat" booth)...I wish that next to my skiff was a representative skiff from all the other major poling skiff companies. First, it would have been a sight to behold! Second, it would have been great to really talk to other builders and compare and contrast....plus, we all love what we do...so I enjoy the company of others with similar interests...regardless of the competition factor. Finally, it would give the consumer, the customer, or the "skiff gurus" out there a chance to really dig around and see what the real differences are. From my end....my Cayenne, as it sits, is $22,000. A skiff, with similar options, in a similar class, from some of the other companies would cost 1.5X to 2.5X what mine does. The reasons for that are for the manufacturers to justify on their end. But the consumer would be able to take those costs and justify for themselves with a tangible product in their face and on their hands. Then, they can decide on what opportunity costs will determine their decision in a skiff purchase.

3. Customer Service. We can all say that the majority of the posts, on this thread, about Ankona's customer service is positive. There is a reason for that. As a sales rep for Ankona, I pride myself on following the example that Mel, Erin, Rose, and Rory have set forth. No one is perfect and there will be examples of times where service may have fallen short. But that is where you learn and grow as a company. That is why there are sales reps located around the state. I am located near Apollo Beach, just south of Tampa. If you want to see a Cayenne and don't want to make the drive to Ft. Pierce....call me, text me, PM me, email me, send smoke signals. 

863-860-7250
[email protected]

My job is to be the buffer between the factory and customer when needed. That allows those at the factory to do what they do best: build. I've had people from Ft. Myers to Ocala come down and check out whatever skiff I have at the time and take a demo ride. 

Ankona is still a young company but they have made huge strides and are only going to improve. Ultimately, your choice in skiff is based on what skiff is best for YOU; not what anyone else says or what you read on a forum. You have to put yours eyes, hands and butt on a skiff to determine if it's the right one. Then you look into your wallet.


----------



## jonterr

Shadowcast said:


> I will address some points.....disclaimer....I am a sales rep for Ankona. However, I was an Ankona skiff owner before I was a rep.
> 
> 1. Storage. The Ankona boats are technical poling skiffs. Not flats boats. These boats are designed for 2 or 3 anglers with minimal gear and provisions. When you are buying a small skiff (15-18 LOA <72" beam), regardless of brand, you know that its purpose in life is to float in skinny water, pole quietly, give you a decent ride and get you to fish that those in larger skiffs cannot reach. If you want to take the sun, moon, and stars with you on a fishing trip then you need a bigger skiff, i.e. a Redfisher 18, an Action Craft 1820, Sundance F19, HPX 18V, BT BTX....take your pick. But notice each of those skiffs are bigger flats boats-style skiffs. They are not skiffs you are poling all day long and they are not skiffs that are getting you in 7" of water or less. Ankona boats are made and designed to get you in skinny water. If storage is your concern, then you have to get creative with your skiff build. I always say to potential customers, that on these skiffs, dry storage is at a premium. If you are building an SC 16 or 18 and you don't put in a center mounted guide box, your only storage would be under the front deck and in a top hatch on the rear deck. The same holds true with any of the Ankona skiffs. A center mounted guide box adds a great deal more storage space on can also double as a livewell. If you have a livewell on your skiff, and it is used frequently, you have just eliminated space that can be used for dry storage, unless your livewell is not in use. If you have a center console, a jump seat can add more dry storage.
> 
> My point of all this is that if you are concerned about having enough storage and livewell or release well space, then you need to do you due diligence and see what the skiff company offers in options. You only have so much room in a 15-18' skiff that can be used. If you are running out of space for your stuff, or do not have large enough live wells or release wells, then you bought the wrong boat! That is not the manufacturers problem...that's your problem for not doing your homework and not really analyzing what you need versus what the skiff is capable of.
> 
> My first three Ankona skiffs were designed to be minimalist skiffs. I took very little gear and rarely used live bait. The rear deck and guide box in my Natives were more than enough storage for what I brought. Jackets and throwable lived up under the front deck. In building my Cayenne, I had to take new factors into consideration. My kids are a little older and like to go fishing so I needed to think about their preferences and needs. So I now have a livewell. I wanted seating for them and my wife...so I got a jump seat which adds more storage. I rarely use the livewell, so when it's empty, I use it as dry storage. Jackets and throwable are under the front deck. If I take my crate mate tackle box, it is the only thing laying in the cockpit. I can probably put the individual tackle boxes in the jump seat to eliminate that. No casting platform so my Yeti 50 does double duty. Everything I could possibly need for a day, and then some, fits on my Cayenne and does the job. So to those that run out of room on their Ankona.....to quote Chief Brody, "You're gonna need a bigger boat!"
> 
> 2. Ankona versus the others. I will never bash another skiff company. I love the skiffs that Hell's Bay, East Cape, Beavertail, Maverick and others put out. They are great boats for those that select to buy them. I will say this, and I said it a million times at the FS Expo in Tampa back in October (my skiff was in the "Best Boat" booth)...I wish that next to my skiff was a representative skiff from all the other major poling skiff companies. First, it would have been a sight to behold! Second, it would have been great to really talk to other builders and compare and contrast....plus, we all love what we do...so I enjoy the company of others with similar interests...regardless of the competition factor. Finally, it would give the consumer, the customer, or the "skiff gurus" out there a chance to really dig around and see what the real differences are. From my end....my Cayenne, as it sits, is $22,000. A skiff, with similar options, in a similar class, from some of the other companies would cost 1.5X to 2.5X what mine does. The reasons for that are for the manufacturers to justify on their end. But the consumer would be able to take those costs and justify for themselves with a tangible product in their face and on their hands. Then, they can decide on what opportunity costs will determine their decision in a skiff purchase.
> 
> 3. Customer Service. We can all say that the majority of the posts, on this thread, about Ankona's customer service is positive. There is a reason for that. As a sales rep for Ankona, I pride myself on following the example that Mel, Erin, Rose, and Rory have set forth. No one is perfect and there will be examples of times where service may have fallen short. But that is where you learn and grow as a company. That is why there are sales reps located around the state. I am located near Apollo Beach, just south of Tampa. If you want to see a Cayenne and don't want to make the drive to Ft. Pierce....call me, text me, PM me, email me, send smoke signals.
> 
> 863-860-7250
> [email protected]
> 
> My job is to be the buffer between the factory and customer when needed. That allows those at the factory to do what they do best: build. I've had people from Ft. Myers to Ocala come down and check out whatever skiff I have at the time and take a demo ride.
> 
> Ankona is still a young company but they have made huge strides and are only going to improve. Ultimately, your choice in skiff is based on what skiff is best for YOU; not what anyone else says or what you read on a forum. You have to put yours eyes, hands and butt on a skiff to determine if it's the right one. Then you look into your wallet.


Thanks for your reply!
Awesome input!
Don't see how anyone could argue with any of it!


----------



## Shadowcast

jonterr said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> Awesome input!
> Don't see how anyone could argue with any of it!


Thanks....I'm sure someone will try....lol


----------



## Whiskey Angler

I recently purchased a Copperhead with ETEC 60. I love it. I did some ultra custom stuff to it, and it is setup EXACTLY how I want it. My purchasing experience with Ankona was excellent from order to delivery (had it shipped to Houston). The boat floats in 6", and with my setup and prop runs 41 MPH - exactly as advertised and reported by other owners.

Now...for my constructive criticism. My opinion is that Ankona should make sure that the boat is buffed, waxed, and detailed before leaving the shop. That would add little cost and schedule time to the build, and would leave the customer smiling at the glossy new sled as it sits in the driveway for the first time. That's my only complaint...the final detailing was less than expected.

I will repeat, to reinforce my position, I was a happy customer and I am a happy owner. I really like my Copperhead.


----------



## AfterHours2

Shadowcast said:


> Thanks....I'm sure someone will try....lol


For only having 22k in a skiff, and it being as nice as it is, it's hard to argue over the minor details. Ankona has always been the much needed "fill in" for those looking for a mid ranged price skiff. I've been around this forum since they first started and they continue to thrive which speaks volumes..


----------



## paint it black

Whiskey Angler said:


> I recently purchased a Copperhead with ETEC 60. I love it. I did some ultra custom stuff to it, and it is setup EXACTLY how I want it. My purchasing experience with Ankona was excellent from order to delivery (had it shipped to Houston). The boat floats in 6", and with my setup and prop runs 41 MPH - exactly as advertised and reported by other owners.
> 
> Now...for my constructive criticism. My opinion is that Ankona should make sure that the boat is buffed, waxed, and detailed before leaving the shop. That would add little cost and schedule time to the build, and would leave the customer smiling at the glossy new sled as it sits in the driveway for the first time. That's my only complaint...the final detailing was less than expected.
> 
> I will repeat, to reinforce my position, I was a happy customer and I am a happy owner. I really like my Copperhead.


Are you the guy who took the blacked out Copperhead to the next level from my blacked out Coppheread? 

I can say this, I have owned two black Ankona Copperhead's (a Gen 1 and a Gen 2), a Shadowcast 17 (still have this), My company owns a Cayenne, and I just picked up a Saltmarsh 1444 recently. The first Copperhead, I polished out myself after I picked it up because it was a Gen 1 and the finish wasn't the best on the early model Copperheads, but boy did they address that on the Gen 2. Some of the best fit and finish in the market, open the hatch on a Gen 2 copperhead then walk to any other skiff and open a hatch and tell me which is cleaner looking. My second one came nice and polished out of the mold, but it was like number 14 out of the mold, so I don't know if anything has changed since, and if so a little compound to the mold should do the trick. 

Regardless of the matter, myself, I polish anything I get new no matter what it is. I am very picky when it comes to polishing, so I machine polish everything I own at least once a year.


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## Whiskey Angler

paint it black said:


> Are you the guy who took the blacked out Copperhead to the next level from my blacked out Coppheread?
> 
> I can say this, I have owned two black Ankona Copperhead's (a Gen 1 and a Gen 2), a Shadowcast 17 (still have this), My company owns a Cayenne, and I just picked up a Saltmarsh 1444 recently. The first Copperhead, I polished out myself after I picked it up because it was a Gen 1 and the finish wasn't the best on the early model Copperheads, but boy did they address that on the Gen 2. Some of the best fit and finish in the market, open the hatch on a Gen 2 copperhead then walk to any other skiff and open a hatch and tell me which is cleaner looking. My second one came nice and polished out of the mold, but it was like number 14 out of the mold, so I don't know if anything has changed since, and if so a little compound to the mold should do the trick.
> 
> Regardless of the matter, myself, I polish anything I get new no matter what it is. I am very picky when it comes to polishing, so I machine polish everything I own at least once a year.


Yes sir, I believe so. I ended up machine polishing with compound and waxing with Rejex. It's shiny now. I'm having a blast in the new boat, and I gathered a lot of good information from your older posts as well as other's posts.


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## Fish_specialist

I was asked several times what issues I had with my ankona and why I wouldn't recommend them. I wasn't looking to publicly bash, so I messaged Mel on the 2nd (like he asked) and received a response on the 7th that he received my message and that he would get back with me....
At this point, it has been over 2 weeks. I expect nothing more from him. I realize that they are busy and that I don't even own my skiff anymore. Seems par for the course here.....
I learned a ton of lessons with this skiff. It is a tough pill to swallow when you lose five thousand dollars and a ton of time. When I sold my skiff it was in perfect working order. I fixed everything with the exception of the 10" draft. That CANNOT be fixed.......

My advice to all future customers is do NOT accept a boat that is not up to your standards. If it has warped hatches, chips, missing fiberglass, gaps, or things look crooked, make them fix it before you hand over the final payment.

This is the exact note I sent directly to Mel, grammatical errors and all. I wrote it late in the evening and was very tired.





Mel,

You asked to hear my issues I had-

I should have refused the boat- When I first picked it up, the first thing I said to You and Rory was that the boat was beautiful except for the crazy warped hatch on the starboard side. Rory told me "give it a month and we'll make you new hatches" I knew better, but I Was so Excited to get my hands on the first skiff I could actually claim legit ownership of, I took it. As Rory was going over the trim and Jack plate it seemed as though there was a problem. The Jack plate wouldn't work. Rory fussed with the contacts and finally the Jack plate functioned, though it tweaked slightly sideways and looked like it was bound. I also did not look at the hull. I took it from your shop straight to master repair to have it rigged. An hour after I dropped it off at Master, I got a call from Mike at Master to come get the skiff and take it back to ankona IMMEDIATELY. I asked what was wrong, and he showed me that the last 12inches of poling strake on the starboard side was completely missing. The boat had never been in the water!! This was due to one of your Glassers not rolling out glass in the strake. It was Mostly Resin with very little mat in it. I brought it back to have it fixed, and when I arrived Erin was SHOCKED! She was also visibly upset with Rory for letting the boat go out like that. It was fixed the following week and I took the boat back to master where Mike started rigging it. That week I flew to Texas to attend a boat show to represent New Wave and DOA lures at an outdoor expo in McAllen TX(which I do every year). I spent a pile of money on having it rigged. When I returned from Texas the skiff had the livewell pumps and the bilge in, as well as all the LEDS in it. Mike asked me if I wanted to have the skiff for the weekend to fish it. This was before I had the extra battery or Trolling motor on the boat. I took my Dad out early the next morning with 8 gal of fuel, basic safety equipment to keep us legal, 2 rods and 2 plano boxes of tackle. I ran north to a hard sandbar to pole across and find the first fish on the new boat. I was on the platform, my Dad was on the bow(200lbs apiece)As we came up to the bar I could feel the hull starting to bump bottom. I pushed further until the boat could not be pushed any further (hard stuck). I looked down and was puzzled. I got out of the boat and measured 9.5 inches!!! That was HARD STUCK! It wouldn't float with 2 guys in 9.5 inches of water!!!!!! I felt embarrassed when my dad looked down and said, "this thing should get a lot shallower than this!!" I knew then, that obviously something was wrong with the construction. The boat was also ALOT harder to pole and didn't feel as corky as the boat I demoed. What could I do??? I had just dumped a Pile into having this thing rigged out and it wasn't what it was supposed to be!!! I couldn't take it back to you and demand you reimburse me boat and the rigging cost! No matter what I did here I was out 3500$ for rigging. I decided to take it on the chin here and keep the boat.
2 weeks later, I was fishing with my Dad again and the Jack plate stopped working. I opened up the hatch to check the solenoids to see if I could get it going. The solenoids were functioning but the Jack plate wouldn't budge. After cutting the power connection and bypassing the solenoid it was obvious my Jack plate motor was dead. This was a TH marine atlas micro Jack- I called Rory the next day to see what we could do- this was on a Monday. The Following Wednesday I was taking my family to the Keys. There was no was way I was going to key Largo without my skiff. His response was, "that's not my fault" when I asked what I was supposed to do, his response was "We got it through a distributor, they can't do anything so you're going to have to call TH marine" -
-This was the WRONG response- when someone spends 20 thousand dollars at your shop on a product, you bend over backwards to take care of them. I was PISSED!! I did call TH marine, and spoke with the man who builds them. He was a kind and concerned man who sent me a Jack plate motor without proof of purchase or any flak. He sent it on their dime- no questions! The company is located in Georgia so I had the new motor by Wednesday. Erin called me a told me to drop the boat off on Saturday and Rory would fix it. He thought he could do it in a few hours. This wasn't a swap the jackplate deal, this was a rebuild the Jack plate deal, but the Jack plate had to come off. I wasn't taking a chance on not having my skiff in the Keys- So I SPENT MY MONEY ON HAVING IT FIXED. Mike at Master is an Atlas dealer and rebuilt it and fixed it. I had it by Monday- Tuesday I installed my Para cord rod holders and as I was looking under the gunnels I noticed that the gap between the hull and the deck was 2.5 inches in some places!!! I just shook my head, but after having to chase down my own replacement Jack plate motor, my chances of having something like this fixed was extremely low...
Once I could no longer bear to look at the warped hatches I brought the skiff back. I also told him that the boat drew 10 inches of water. He just shrugged his shoulders at me!! ... Rory then assured me he would remake the front hatch and the Starboard hatch. I received a call from Erin 3 days later saying there was a problem. The gelcoat didn't match at all!! I was VERY frustrated!! Rory said he was going to send the rear hatch to match from. I said no, I would send my small batch of uncured gelcoat I had to fix little chips in the deck. I drove down the street to Fiberglass Florida, and brought my pint of Guide Green gelcoat from the original batch. I handed it to Nikki, and asked her to send it up to the main facility to use it to make an exact match. I work on the same street as Jim smith boats- L&H, Garlington.... I also work with fiberglass DAILY. You and I know, that gelcoat will cure with a slightly different color than the uncatylized version. I told Erin if the Gelcoat didn't match PERFECTLY I wanted ALL the hatches remade. I didn't purchase a 2 tone boat, but if it was going to be 2 tone, it was to be with all the hatches the same. I was EXPLICIT about this with Erin. You guys had my skiff for over a month. I picked it up early in the morning as always and drove back to my shop. By the time I arrived it was light enough to see that 2 of 4 hatches had been remade. The front and starboard back hatch... 2 days later while at fiberglass Florida Nikki handed me my original pint of gelcoat. Apparently they didn't need it up in rock ledge, because Rory had sent the back hatch!! .. It was obvious to me that I could no longer trust you guys to do what I asked.
It was then that I decided to keep the boat only as long as I had to to and then sell it as soon as I had a decent amount of money to upgrade.
By March, I purchased a seafoam Yeti 45. It was then that I realized that the console was crooked. I pulled a tape to find it was off by 1.75" to starboard side and canted about 3 degrees to the port. Seems insignificant until you put a yeti lengthways in front of it...
In June of last year I put the Skiff in the water to go fish with a good friend. I dumped it in the water and the jackplate didn't work again. I started working on it, and by chance 2 guys came by in the lime green copperhead(the one that is for sale right now on microskiff) . He asked what was wrong- I told him the jackplate wasn't working. He said to check the breaker down it the wet well area, as the same thing had happened to him. Sure enough, it was a breaker that was not sealed in an area exposed to water. I was lucky it lasted that long!! I used some 8lb density foam and some biax ang gelcoat to make a block to mount the new proper breaker to the livewell. It was then that I found the straw that broke the camels back.
The final straw was patch of de lamination that was about 7 inches long and 3 inches high on the gunnels. I work with fiberglass everyday. I fixed it and sold the skiff the same week. I had it for 1 year-

My skiff had WAY too much resin in its construction. It was the size of a whipray and should have weighed no more than 550lbs or so. There is no reason that small boat should have drawn that much water. Everyone told me 6 inches, I expected 7" I got 10"!!! before I sold it I also fixed all kinds of little air bubbles in the gelcoat inside the front hatch area..

I didn't tell any of this to the new owner, but my friends and family have seen and heard my frustrations. The original poster of that thread asked if I would recommend an ankona. If you went through this with YOUR skiff would you??
Maybe I got serious Lemon. I know that the week before Christmas that year (2 years ago) you lost 2 of your Glassers. It seems as if one of your new guys got trained on my hull and cap..
i learned some serious lessons with all this.
I'm sorry that it didn't work out. I loved the idea of the Copperhead, but the reality I got was really lacking.


Fish_specialist, Jan 2, 2016


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## AfterHours2

^ I feel bad also for the poor bastard that you sold this to that will probably read this post. Honesty seems to go a long way..


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## Fish_specialist

AfterHours2 said:


> ^ I feel bad also for the poor bastard that you sold this to that will probably read this post. Honesty seems to go a long way..


Why? He got a good deal- that boat was rigged to perfection. And as I said, I fixed everything on the skiff- it was in perfect working order, with the exception of the draft. The boat will catch fish-


I feel bad for all the other owners standing in their garage with a tape measure in their hands looking at their consoles while scratching their heads.
Many people have messaged me about similar problems. At some point, the manufacturing has to step up. If everyone assumes everything is perfect with every boat, Ankona can continue to on with business as usual. A lot of the issues I discussed can be easily avoided!!! I.E.- use proper breakers or relocate them to a proper place- take 4 measurements and mark the deck with a pencil before glassing on a console- use proper catylization rates to avoid excess exothermic heat (warping) - stick to a laminating schedule- etc!

Or I'm the bad guy because I'm the first one to say something.... Either way.


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## WillW

Fish_specialist said:


> Why? He got a good deal- that boat was rigged to perfection. And as I said, I fixed everything on the skiff- it was in perfect working order, with the exception of the draft. The boat will catch fish-
> 
> 
> I feel bad for all the other owners standing in their garage with a tape measure in their hands looking at their consoles while scratching their heads.
> Many people have messaged me about similar problems. At some point, the manufacturing has to step up. If everyone assumes everything is perfect with every boat, Ankona can continue to on with business as usual. A lot of the issues I discussed can be easily avoided!!! I.E.- use proper breakers or relocate them to a proper place- take 4 measurements and mark the deck with a pencil before glassing on a console- use proper catylization rates to avoid excess exothermic heat (warping) - stick to a laminating schedule- etc!
> 
> Or I'm the bad guy because I'm the first one to say something.... Either way.


Not a bad guy. Most folks wouldn't have the jewels to admit they paid for a f up like that. I had 3 of the same problems you did with your skiff including the Jack plate issue. Was the bow on yours sticky while running, to the point of ass clinching nervousness? As I've said in a previous post on this thread, no skiffs are perfect, but damn.


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## devrep

Fish-specialist, I had a Mitzi 17 that had a litany of problems, I completely understand your position. I would of been a total ass had that been my boat.


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## makin moves

Sucks about the problems you had. What size motor did you have on it? I'm thinking a 200 lbs guy on the platform and a 60 hanging on the back is not going to float 6 to even 8 in. On a small boat like that.


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## Fish_specialist

WillW said:


> Not a bad guy. Most folks wouldn't have the jewels to admit they paid for a f up like that. I had 3 of the same problems you did with your skiff including the Jack plate issue. Was the bow on yours sticky while running, to the point of ass clinching nervousness? As I've said in a previous post on this thread, no skiffs are perfect, but damn.





devrep said:


> Fish-specialist, I had a Mitzi 17 that had a litany of problems, I completely understand your position. I would of been a total ass had that been my boat.




WillW- yes, I had bow steer as well. I believe it could be solved with a hydrofoil.

Devrep- thank you. I have tried to maintain a professional image here. This boat was supposed to be the one I use to start my guiding career. Not a chance.

I love this forum and visit it often. It is where I got all of my info about the copperhead. I followed builds, read reviews and soaked up all the info I could. The only negative thing I read was from Jan (Imacattack) when he reviewed the first copperhead. It wasn't ready. 

This is where there is a major separation between Ankona and companies like Maverick, East Cape, Beavertail, and Hells Bay. They cost more for sure- but they also employ skilled people who are capable of building fine vessels, and fixing problem that can/do arise. These companies will use a breaker that cost them 26$ Instead of 98cents because they know that the cheap breaker WILL fail at the worst time possible. It's not even an option to use the cheap one. Their reputation is on the line.


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## Fish_specialist

makin moves said:


> Sucks about the problems you had. What size motor did you have on it? I'm thinking a 200 lbs guy on the platform and a 60 hanging on the back is not going to float 6 to even 8 in. On a small boat like that.


Yeah, I had a 60etec(loved that motor), but the boat wouldn't float in 6-8 inches without me in it...... I always had someone on the bow to counteract the stern weight. Balancing the load is the name of the game on a small skiff!


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## FlatsBoss

Fish_specialist said:


> This is where there is a major separation between Ankona and companies like Maverick, East Cape, Beavertail, and Hells Bay. They cost more for sure- but they also employ skilled people who are capable of building fine vessels, and fixing problem that can/do arise.


Cheap shot.


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## Swfl angler

FlatsBoss said:


> Cheap shot.


I too would be upset but I can tell you first hand maverick boat company replaced the stringer's in a tailfisher I use to.own. Bought boat brand new in Ft Myers had boat approximately 1 year stringer's came lose took boat bacj to dealer he sends it to maverick for repair. A month later I get boat back looked like my daughter fixed it and re glassed it two different colors gelcoat on bottom call the shop yell the second in charge guy ask him if he even looked at the boat before they sent it back to me he. He proceeds to tell me they can't match gelcoat so he tells me what did you want me to do regelcoat the whole boat do you really have to ask a question like that no I want a two tone boat. I WILL NEVER BUY another maverick boat company boat and tell everyone I see. I know I am only one person bit if I can keep one person from makes ng the same mistake I did its worth it. Just to clarify Ft Myers marine where I purchased the boat went above an beyond in trying to get the problem fixed and would refer them to anyone as a reputable dealer maverick not so much.


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## Fish_specialist

FlatsBoss said:


> Cheap shot.


When I was at Ankona the first time to take a tour and look at the skiff, Mel compared the copperhead to both the Whipray and the Strike. This is why I made that statement. Not to be Mean, or add a cheap shot-
The problems that I mentioned like catylization are things you go over on day 1 with a new fiberglass tech. De-lamination issues can stem from a few problems but primarily simple lack of roller use. Remember, HB went through quite the issue in 2005 with it's Glassers before bankruptcy. Pathfinder/Maverick had some de-lamination issues in 1998-2001
Every boat company can have issues that are resin related. Bad batches, happen- distributors like Fiberglass Florida and Composites One take large batches and divvy them up. Most of the major manufacturers are using these 2 companies for their materials. The issues I spoke of with my skiff have everything to do with human error. 

I'm still rooting for Mel and his family. But they need the step it up.


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## paint it black

I currently have three skiffs built by Mel and crew, and have owned two others in the past. The first one was a copperhead gen 1. The boat performed great, but didn't look too great when it came to radius edges, finish, etc. But I knew that going in, I was getting a $10,000 skiff that performed like a $30,000. The difference in price was in the finish. Human labor costs quite a bit. When they redesigned the Gen 2 Copperhead I got one of those, and the finish on it was fantastic. However, that boat was twice the price. I loved that skiff, it was phenomenal at what it did. It floated a true 5-6" loaded. I spent MANY days and put a ton of hours on it fishing in the Everglades, biscayne and the Florida keys. Until one day, I took a buddy out on a camping trip and he fell in love with the skiff and he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse so I sold it. Now, we have the Cayenne, Shadowcast, and SaltMarsh 1444v and they've all been incredible. The Cayenne has all the bells and whistles. Yamaha F70, carbon marine poling, casting platform, grab handles, push pole all from Joe at CM, every feature Anklna offers, and the boat has been great. Haven't had any issues with the boat, drafts a true 6", runs great, poles like a dream. 

Just to put my .02 on this bow steer issue you guys talk about. One day, I was here at my house when a forum member who had just got his gen 2 copperhead a few weeks prior gave me a call. He was infuriated. He had seen videos of my boat running and he compared it to his experience with his copperhead. He asked if he could come by my house with his skiff to compare our hulls, as he was certain his was a lemon. So he showed up at my house with a straight edge, went under my boat measured everything, saw both hulls were identical. So I told him to let's hitch up both skiffs and hit the water. We get out there and start running. My skiff did over 40mph, I left him way behind as he was only seeing mid 30s, both skiffs had the same prop, same outboard, only difference was his had an atlas Micro jacker. So the father jumped in my skiff to watch his son run their skiff alone so we can watch his skiff running. So as we are sitting there, the man is telling me how pissed he was with Mel, and that Mel is a bold face liar, because Mel told him that out of all the copperheads they had built up to that point, theirs ran the best. So as he's telling this, I notice his son was driving the skiff with the nose plowed down. I yelled to him to trim up the motor, still didn't do much. So we switch over, both of them get on my skiff, I jumped on their skiff and ran it. The skiff ran incredibly. I get back to my boat and they ask "so what do you think?" My response was "this is the best running copperhead I have ever driven". Then they looked at me like I was crazy. I had the motor trimmed just right, jack plate on point and the boat was running 40+ mph with the nose completely out of the water, zero bow steer. So they asked if I could teach the son to run the skiff properly, so he jumped on and off we went. Their opinion on their skiff switched drastically once they saw how the skiff should be ran. They loved their skiff and took back every comment they made about Mel and company. These are technical skiffs, that are designed for certain tasks and require a certain way to get their best performance out of them. With many things in life, Somethings come naturally to some individuals, while others it's more of a learning curve. You cannot hold it against anyone, all we can do is help eachother along the way. Whether it's casting a fly rod, driving a skiff, no matter what it is. One can achieve much more with a positive solution on how to address an issue, rather than a negative outlash pointing out flaws. 


I can almost guarantee you the bow steer issue some of you guys are having are due to operator error. I have ran many skiffs throughout the years, and had friends tell me the same thing about their particular skiffs which were also just poor driving technique. 

Also, when t comes to draft, I have poled two other copperheads that weren't mine that drafted much more than mine, while also poling others that drafted just as little as mine. And it came down to options and rigging. When it comes to these micros, The way you set up the skiff makes a world of difference on draft. Weight distribution is a major key in draft and performance. Especially on the copperhead, where the dimensions are a little deceiving. The beam is 70", but that's at the widest point of the cap. It's probably more around 62" at the waterline.


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## pt448

Fish specialist, I appreciate your honest account of all your issues. The sharing of information is why we're all here. These types of things are not unique to your hull or Ankona and, like you, I'm rooting for Mel and crew to step up their game. Thanks also for those who are very familiar with the Ankona product for sharing your views as well. It's always good to get a much info as possible.


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## Fish_specialist

paint it black said:


> I currently have three skiffs built by Mel and crew, and have owned two others in the past. The first one was a copperhead gen 1. The boat performed great, but didn't look too great when it came to radius edges, finish, etc. But I knew that going in, I was getting a $10,000 skiff that performed like a $30,000. The difference in price was in the finish. Human labor costs quite a bit. When they redesigned the Gen 2 Copperhead I got one of those, and the finish on it was fantastic. However, that boat was twice the price. I loved that skiff, it was phenomenal at what it did. It floated a true 5-6" loaded. I spent MANY days and put a ton of hours on it fishing in the Everglades, biscayne and the Florida keys. Until one day, I took a buddy out on a camping trip and he fell in love with the skiff and he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse so I sold it. Now, we have the Cayenne, Shadowcast, and SaltMarsh 1444v and they've all been incredible. The Cayenne has all the bells and whistles. Yamaha F70, carbon marine poling, casting platform, grab handles, push pole all from Joe at CM, every feature Anklna offers, and the boat has been great. Haven't had any issues with the boat, drafts a true 6", runs great, poles like a dream.
> 
> Just to put my .02 on this bow steer issue you guys talk about. One day, I was here at my house when a forum member who had just got his gen 2 copperhead a few weeks prior gave me a call. He was infuriated. He had seen videos of my boat running and he compared it to his experience with his copperhead. He asked if he could come by my house with his skiff to compare our hulls, as he was certain his was a lemon. So he showed up at my house with a straight edge, went under my boat measured everything, saw both hulls were identical. So I told him to let's hitch up both skiffs and hit the water. We get out there and start running. My skiff did over 40mph, I left him way behind as he was only seeing mid 30s, both skiffs had the same prop, same outboard, only difference was his had an atlas Micro jacker. So the father jumped in my skiff to watch his son run their skiff alone so we can watch his skiff running. So as we are sitting there, the man is telling me how pissed he was with Mel, and that Mel is a bold face liar, because Mel told him that out of all the copperheads they had built up to that point, theirs ran the best. So as he's telling this, I notice his son was driving the skiff with the nose plowed down. I yelled to him to trim up the motor, still didn't do much. So we switch over, both of them get on my skiff, I jumped on their skiff and ran it. The skiff ran incredibly. I get back to my boat and they ask "so what do you think?" My response was "this is the best running copperhead I have ever driven". Then they looked at me like I was crazy. I had the motor trimmed just right, jack plate on point and the boat was running 40+ mph with the nose completely out of the water, zero bow steer. So they asked if I could teach the son to run the skiff properly, so he jumped on and off we went. Their opinion on their skiff switched drastically once they saw how the skiff should be ran. They loved their skiff and took back every comment they made about Mel and company. These are technical skiffs, that are designed for certain tasks and require a certain way to get their best performance out of them. With many things in life, Somethings come naturally to some individuals, while others it's more of a learning curve. You cannot hold it against anyone, all we can do is help eachother along the way. Whether it's casting a fly rod, driving a skiff, no matter what it is. One can achieve much more with a positive solution on how to address an issue, rather than a negative outlash pointing out flaws.
> 
> 
> I can almost guarantee you the bow steer issue some of you guys are having are due to operator error. I have ran many skiffs throughout the years, and had friends tell me the same thing about their particular skiffs which were also just poor driving technique.
> 
> Also, when t comes to draft, I have poled two other copperheads that weren't mine that drafted much more than mine, while also poling others that drafted just as little as mine. And it came down to options and rigging. When it comes to these micros, The way you set up the skiff makes a world of difference on draft. Weight distribution is a major key in draft and performance. Especially on the copperhead, where the dimensions are a little deceiving. The beam is 70", but that's at the widest point of the cap. It's probably more around 62" at the waterline.



Yes Eric, the bow steer issue can be operator error. I encountered it mostly on days where I had excessive wind and tide that created a following sea. Sometimes it is unavoidable and caution should be used. That being said, the trim on that skiff was touchy at best. I generally ran the Jack plate at 3/4 inches up and trimmed. This isn't my first time with a Jack plate on a skiff. Also, you ran a 3 blade 19? Raker while mine was set up with a 4 blade 21 pitch. This prop was huge and is the biggest reason that the bow digs. I saw 36mph with a light load. Most of the time with 2 guys it would top out at 34. A hydrofoil will fix this and allow more trim.
As for setup, a micro Jack is 22lbs. Hydraulic steering maybe an additional 6? Add 2- 1lb pumps. We are talking an additional 30lbs here- there is no way it can equate to an additional 3" in draft with no one in the boat. The only way that would be possible is if there was an extra 150lbs of excess resin somewhere in the skiff....

You sold your skiff to Alex after putting it for sale in the classifieds here. I was SO close to buying it. In hindsight, I should have and would have likely not encountered the issues I did.

Again, I have nothing to gain here- this started as a simple statement that I would not recommend them to my friends, and this is also why people keep it all to themselves when they encounter problems like I did.


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## WillW

paint it black said:


> I currently have three skiffs built by Mel and crew, and have owned two others in the past. The first one was a copperhead gen 1. The boat performed great, but didn't look too great when it came to radius edges, finish, etc. But I knew that going in, I was getting a $10,000 skiff that performed like a $30,000. The difference in price was in the finish. Human labor costs quite a bit. When they redesigned the Gen 2 Copperhead I got one of those, and the finish on it was fantastic. However, that boat was twice the price. I loved that skiff, it was phenomenal at what it did. It floated a true 5-6" loaded. I spent MANY days and put a ton of hours on it fishing in the Everglades, biscayne and the Florida keys. Until one day, I took a buddy out on a camping trip and he fell in love with the skiff and he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse so I sold it. Now, we have the Cayenne, Shadowcast, and SaltMarsh 1444v and they've all been incredible. The Cayenne has all the bells and whistles. Yamaha F70, carbon marine poling, casting platform, grab handles, push pole all from Joe at CM, every feature Anklna offers, and the boat has been great. Haven't had any issues with the boat, drafts a true 6", runs great, poles like a dream.
> 
> Just to put my .02 on this bow steer issue you guys talk about. One day, I was here at my house when a forum member who had just got his gen 2 copperhead a few weeks prior gave me a call. He was infuriated. He had seen videos of my boat running and he compared it to his experience with his copperhead. He asked if he could come by my house with his skiff to compare our hulls, as he was certain his was a lemon. So he showed up at my house with a straight edge, went under my boat measured everything, saw both hulls were identical. So I told him to let's hitch up both skiffs and hit the water. We get out there and start running. My skiff did over 40mph, I left him way behind as he was only seeing mid 30s, both skiffs had the same prop, same outboard, only difference was his had an atlas Micro jacker. So the father jumped in my skiff to watch his son run their skiff alone so we can watch his skiff running. So as we are sitting there, the man is telling me how pissed he was with Mel, and that Mel is a bold face liar, because Mel told him that out of all the copperheads they had built up to that point, theirs ran the best. So as he's telling this, I notice his son was driving the skiff with the nose plowed down. I yelled to him to trim up the motor, still didn't do much. So we switch over, both of them get on my skiff, I jumped on their skiff and ran it. The skiff ran incredibly. I get back to my boat and they ask "so what do you think?" My response was "this is the best running copperhead I have ever driven". Then they looked at me like I was crazy. I had the motor trimmed just right, jack plate on point and the boat was running 40+ mph with the nose completely out of the water, zero bow steer. So they asked if I could teach the son to run the skiff properly, so he jumped on and off we went. Their opinion on their skiff switched drastically once they saw how the skiff should be ran. They loved their skiff and took back every comment they made about Mel and company. These are technical skiffs, that are designed for certain tasks and require a certain way to get their best performance out of them. With many things in life, Somethings come naturally to some individuals, while others it's more of a learning curve. You cannot hold it against anyone, all we can do is help eachother along the way. Whether it's casting a fly rod, driving a skiff, no matter what it is. One can achieve much more with a positive solution on how to address an issue, rather than a negative outlash pointing out flaws.
> 
> 
> I can almost guarantee you the bow steer issue some of you guys are having are due to operator error. I have ran many skiffs throughout the years, and had friends tell me the same thing about their particular skiffs which were also just poor driving technique.
> 
> Also, when t comes to draft, I have poled two other copperheads that weren't mine that drafted much more than mine, while also poling others that drafted just as little as mine. And it came down to options and rigging. When it comes to these micros, The way you set up the skiff makes a world of difference on draft. Weight distribution is a major key in draft and performance. Especially on the copperhead, where the dimensions are a little deceiving. The beam is 70", but that's at the widest point of the cap. It's probably more around 62" at the waterline.


"Operator error" I think not. Some mutual acquaintance of ours here in Tx ran my skiff & had the same thoughts or worse. All due respect but you have your opinion & I have mine


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## sjrobin

In my short five month experience on microskiff, I would say that a number of members stick to facts and real world experiences and others have skin in the game regarding stories of performance of various tools of the sight fishing trade. By skin in the game I mean you own a product or represent a product and/or do not have the experience in the sport or with other products to make an accurate evaluation of the product you think is great.


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## jonrconner

As someone who has been messing about in boats for a very long time, I will say this, trim is everything in the way the boat performs, whether it's a canoe, a rowboat, a sailboat or a skiff, and trim has to be adjusted to conditions. Boats are not cars and they require different driving skills, when your boat doesn't behave well, don't assume it's the boats fault.
JC


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## Swfl angler

jonrconner said:


> As someone who has been messing about in boats for a very long time, I will say this, trim is everything in the way the boat performs, whether it's a canoe, a rowboat, a sailboat or a skiff, and trim has to be adjusted to conditions. Boats are not cars and they require different driving skills, when your boat doesn't behave well, don't assume it's the boats fault.
> JC


100 percent agree with that


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## paint it black

If anyone questions anything I am saying, there's video proof of just about everything I do all over the Internet. I speak based on personal experiences. Before I spent a lot of time fishing Ankona's I primarily fished out of Mavericks. The HPX T and Micro to be exact. I also fish quite a bit with my buddy in his Waterman. Spent many days fishing out of dolphin skiffs(Renegade and super skiff), terrapin skiffs "dragonfly", a couple friends Beavertail strike's, a buddies Caimen, my share of gheenoe's (I've owned a 13 lowsider, 15'4 hisider and a classic and my tournament partner had LT25), I had a Johnsen Skiff, a Pro Sports skiff, a slew of John boats throughout the years. 


Will, I don't know what skiff you have or how it's rigged, so I don't know in your case. I can tell you I don't have much experience at all with the SUV hulls, as I've only fished one. But when it comes to a copperhead with an etec, I can tell you from experience running four different props on my set up. 

And another thing, as fish specialist mentioned, I did have a raker 19 and saw greater performance than he's experiencing. No offense, if you are stating I had a difference experience than you are having, why not change the prop? 

A skiff does not have to stay the way it was delivered. I always go over my skiffs from front to back and make my own changes / adjustments to what best fits my needs, and my opinion of what is best for me. And yes, Alex did buy my skiff. I had posted it on here as a feeler. A group of us went to camp at Flamingo for a weekend, Alex wanted to buy a Dorado skiff my buddy was trying to sell. But Alex fished with me one of the days and fell in love with my skiff. He had money to buy a skiff, and made me an offer while we were drinking brews by the fire. It was a good offer for both of us, so we made the deal. I still regret selling that boat.


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## WillW

paint it black said:


> If anyone questions anything I am saying, there's video proof of just about everything I do all over the Internet. I speak based on personal experiences. Before I spent a lot of time fishing Ankona's I primarily fished out of Mavericks. The HPX T and Micro to be exact. I also fish quite a bit with my buddy in his Waterman. Spent many days fishing out of dolphin skiffs(Renegade and super skiff), terrapin skiffs "dragonfly", a couple friends Beavertail strike's, a buddies Caimen, my share of gheenoe's (I've owned a 13 lowsider, 15'4 hisider and a classic and my tournament partner had LT25), I had a Johnsen Skiff, a Pro Sports skiff, a slew of John boats throughout the years.
> 
> 
> Will, I don't know what skiff you have or how it's rigged, so I don't know in your case. I can tell you I don't have much experience at all with the SUV hulls, as I've only fished one. But when it comes to a copperhead with an etec, I can tell you from experience running four different props on my set up.
> 
> And another thing, as fish specialist mentioned, I did have a raker 19 and saw greater performance than he's experiencing. No offense, if you are stating I had a difference experience than you are having, why not change the prop?
> 
> A skiff does not have to stay the way it was delivered. I always go over my skiffs from front to back and make my own changes / adjustments to what best fits my needs, and my opinion of what is best for me. And yes, Alex did buy my skiff. I had posted it on here as a feeler. A group of us went to camp at Flamingo for a weekend, Alex wanted to buy a Dorado skiff my buddy was trying to sell. But Alex fished with me one of the days and fell in love with my skiff. He had money to buy a skiff, and made me an offer while we were drinking brews by the fire. It was a good offer for both of us, so we made the deal. I still regret selling that boat.


Any man worth his salt makes a ride his own, as it should be. Mine was tinkered with & didnt stay as is. I had my experience & you yours. Like I said we both said our parts & I stand behind my observations & respect yours.


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## bermuda

sjrobin said:


> In my short five month experience on microskiff, I would say that a number of members stick to facts and real world experiences and others have skin in the game regarding stories of performance of various tools of the sight fishing trade. By skin in the game I mean you own a product or represent a product and/or do not have the experience in the sport or with other products to make an accurate evaluation of the product you think is great.


I've bit my tongue long enough but can't take it anymore after this cheap shot.

Soooo... my positive opinion of Ankona doesn't matter because I have "skin in the game" since I own an Ankona boat. Since I can't possibly "stick to the facts and have real world experiences" or "have experience in the sport ....to make an accurate evaluation of the product..." what a bunch of crap.

I'm sure this will be interpreted as inflammatory but statements like the quote above offend me. I spend every weekend at mosquito lagoon at a place I own there so I have experience in the sport and understand this style of fishing. I have owned and have friends that own other makes of boats that have had serious issues but I'm not going to bash them here.

This thread has become ridiculous with the back and forth stuff. State your opinion once and move on, please don't keep piling it on because you have an axe to grind.


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## Str8-Six

First I would like to say that this post has been very informative. As a future owner of an Ankona CH, build starts this week, this is my opinion. I think that fish_specialist has some valid points here and had real problems which have to be considered when making a new purchase. That being said I am still moving forward with my CH build! I don't believe that Ankona did this intentionally as their reputation is solely built off of word of mouth. Now, If I have these same/other problems I will refuse to take the boat with out it being fixed, and for that I appreciate your honest opinion. The reason I am staying with Ankona is because out of all the boats I tested it suited my needs best(everyone should wet test before they buy). Also, I think that they are good people and they build the best boat for buck. Now wether my perception is reality is the question.. I will be sure to share my experience wether it's a good or bad one for people like myself considering Ankona in the future. It does sounds like I'm going to have to stay on top of Ankona during the build process to make sure everything is up to par. This forum has been a great resource.


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## el9surf

For what its worth the copperhead I fished off of was easily an 8 inch boat. It dragged bottom at just about every flat we fished in the lagoom at some point in the day. It was rigged with a tohatsu 40 4 stroke tiller. It rode bow down but that easily could have been many things as I was just a passenger. The draft surprised me. It did pole fairly easy though and it tracked well. In terms of finish everything looked good to me. It was simple but clean. That boat was probably built around 2012.


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## Str8-Six

Can anyone else account for the true draft numbers(measured with a tape measure, not with eyes)?


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## el9surf

Str8-Six said:


> Can anyone else account for the true draft numbers(measured with a tape measure, not with eyes)?


You might ask what power and options they have when asking for draft numbers. Also nobody wants to admit their boat is a pig 

I have seen a copperhead rigged with a 30 etec, it ran around 30mph. 30 hp is usually 50 - 70 lbs lighter than most of the 40 4 strokes which share the same block as 60 4 strokes.


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## Str8-Six

el9surf said:


> You might ask what power and options they have when asking for draft numbers. Also nobody wants to admit their boat is a pig
> 
> I have seen a copperhead rigged with a 30 etec, it ran around 30mph. 30 hp is usually 50 - 70 lbs lighter than most of the 40 4 strokes which share the same block as 60 4 strokes.


What ^he^ said then.. Any CH owners want to share their MEASURED draft numbers with their setup options?


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## paint it black

Look at the 23 second mark. I used to fish exposed bottom regularly, where I was poling around dry grass plucking out redfish. I measured it at a true 6" but didn't get a photo of the measuring tape as I never thought I'd have to prove how shallow the skiff drafted since it was undeniably not an issue, as I never ever got stuck. 


My buddy had a copperhead with a 40tohatsu, but he had it loaded down with multiple batteries, trolling motor and all kinds of crap, and when there was three of us on board, it drafted around 8". 

There's another forum member on here who has every gadget in the world on his copperhead and his too drafted a little more than mine, probably around 8" but his style of fishing wasn't the type that required a 6" draft. So he loves his skiff as it does what he expects it to do for his fishing style. 

My skiff had 60 etec, Gps, backrest, yeti 45qt, and a casting platform. Also mine was one of the first ones to get the carbon fiber hatch liners. Which became standard on all copperheads after about hull number 10, that shed somewhere around 40-50lbs if i remember correctly.


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## Str8-Six

paint it black said:


> Look at the 23 second mark. I used to fish exposed bottom regularly, where I was poling around dry grass plucking out redfish. I measured it at a true 6" but didn't get a photo of the measuring tape as I never thought I'd have to prove how shallow the skiff drafted since it was undeniably not an issue, as I never ever got stuck.
> 
> 
> My buddy had a copperhead with a 40tohatsu, but he had it loaded down with multiple batteries, trolling motor and all kinds of crap, and when there was three of us on board, it drafted around 8".
> 
> There's another forum member on here who has every gadget in the world on his copperhead and his too drafted a little more than mine, probably around 8" but his style of fishing wasn't the type that required a 6" draft. So he loves his skiff as it does what he expects it to do for his fishing style.
> 
> My skiff had 60 etec, Gps, backrest, yeti 45qt, and a casting platform. Also mine was one of the first ones to get the carbon fiber hatch liners. Which became standard on all copperheads after about hull number 10, that shed somewhere around 40-50lbs if i remember correctly.


Nice Vid. Makes me want to quit work and fish all day. I think that is pretty shallow and agree that it all comes down to weight. When I get mine I will make sure to do a full review with videos. Hopefully this will help out others deciding on a skiff. Should be ready in less than a month.


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## jmrodandgun

I really like my SUV, it just looks like a 5 year old built it.


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## GTSRGTSR

jmrodandgun said:


> I really like my SUV, it just looks like a 5 year old built it.


I felt the same way about my SUV14. I still think that my SUV 14 is a great little boat and a SUV 17 is a perfect little skiff. My big nag, beyond the flexing at the transom that Mel fixed under warranty, was the super soft gelcoat. I always felt like the gelcoat was so soft I could scratch it with my fingernail. I know I am not the only one because of all the posts around that time of folks awlgripping their boats. They have great designs and sell at an affordable price.


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## Backwater

I think threads like this one are important for mfg's to see what their customers think, because aside from the boat itself, it all comes down to quality control and customer service. The F&F built into the design is one thing, as well as the capabilities of a particular boat. But if the mfg has people they trust and depend on, to get the products (in this case boats) out there and delivered to the customers with all the loose ends tied up and the quality thereof match what they state, then they will have good success. Otherwise, they wouldn't! Today, reviews are everything and will make or break a company. Reviews like this both good and not good from their customers will not only give new customers a "buyer beware" approach to purchasing from them, but help them to look closer at the competition and consider their boats as well, before pulling the trigger.

It's funny how companies can even lack on quality from one dept or the other. Years back, Hewes Pathfinder bay boat was riddled with problems, yet their Redfish flats boat was a good built boat. Go figure! Maybe the Mavs and Hewes flats boats were made by the same team management.

I've not owned an Arkona, but fished and poled a new friend's new Cayenne. Initially, the F&F of it from 1st appearance was good. Storage was lacking IMO, especially in the bow. I can be a minimalist too, but storing things up under the front deck is not a convenient way to store things in my book. It was matched with a 60 Etec and felt like the boat squatted with that kind of weight back there. Didn't feel like the boat easily got on a plane without the bow coming up high. I'm 6'3" 225lbs+ and when I went to the rear deck, it squatted more (of course) but felt tippy. However it poled easy enough with someone on the bow but felt it didn't track very well, especially with the breeze kicking. I'm thinking their new Heron will be a better design for that. I'll be looking for good reviews on that boat.

Ted


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## GullsGoneWild

Just noticed that my gelcoat is cracking on the floor where the bulkhead meets the floor on the starboard side. Looks to be pretty thin. The skiff is about to turn 1yo in two weeks. Not happy but I really cant complain as I know what I paid for the skiff. The only other issue I've had was a trailer issue that was caught by me but not corrected at the factory even though I questioned them.

My axle was installed upside down. This was a KARAVAN defect and not caused by Ankona. This caused a clearance issue with the bolts that attach the fender to the trailer. On my way to whites tackle to pick up a push pole I noticed the bolts were eating into the tires. Turned around and went back and had the Ankona swap out the bad tires for new ones as well as adjust the trailer. I commented again that it wasn't correct as I could not fit my pinky finger between the fender and tire. I was assured it was "correct" and was safe to trailer the 800 miles back to TX. I should have never left the factory with this concern. Lesson learned. The next morning, somewhere in Alabama or Mississippi, I inspected the skiff and found that the tire had rubbed a 10" long hole in the fender. Also had about 1/16"-1/8" thick of rubber on the inside of the fender. Lucky it did not get hot enough to start a fire. It took a few hours to find a shop that would loan me their tools. I had tools but didn't have the correct size wrench. Finally found a local tire shop who let me borrow their tools and work in their parking lot. I ended up taking off the fenders for the remainder of the drive. Again, this is not a quality issue caused by Ankona but I felt shot down at my request to have the trailer looked at again. Lets face it, if a customer who just picked up a boat from you less than an hour later has concerns, valid or not, they should be listened to and thoroughly addressed. I felt like I was dismissed rather quickly when I said it was not supposed to be that way. Turns out I was correct. It took about a week of back and forth emailing with Karavan and 100 pictures to determine the axle was upside down.

On a side note, I just went back through my emails to look at the pics I took of the trailer and found my emails to Ankona during the break in period. I just realized I asked a slew of questions and only had about half of them answered. Per Rose, Mel would get back with me regarding the other un-answered questions. That was 11.5 months ago!

I may have another "complaint/issue" but I wont know for sure till I speak with someone more knowledgeable. Till then, I'm happy to report that I wish I had a bigger boat but the SM1444 does everything I need it to do


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## jonterr

jmrodandgun said:


> Here is a fun one. Rear deck fitment. I wish I could find the ones I took of wood wedges that were used to fill gaps between the front deck and the hull. Those wedges eventually wore out and the shook it's self loose. Don't even get me started on the transom cracking issues...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This part was so thin you could move it with your fingers. 1 1/4 inch gap between the deck and transom at its worse and 1/4 in at it's best.


Dang!
Where were all these negative posts before I bought my CH 2 yrs ago?
If I would have seen these, I don't think I would have gone to look at it!
I'm just glad I used it for a year and sold it before it fell apart and drowned me and my buddies!!!
LOL


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## devrep

That is some ugly work.



jmrodandgun said:


> Here is a fun one. Rear deck fitment. I wish I could find the ones I took of wood wedges that were used to fill gaps between the front deck and the hull. Those wedges eventually wore out and the shook it's self loose. Don't even get me started on the transom cracking issues...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This part was so thin you could move it with your fingers. 1 1/4 inch gap between the deck and transom at its worse and 1/4 in at it's best.


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## el9surf

jmrodandgun said:


> Here is a fun one. Rear deck fitment. I wish I could find the ones I took of wood wedges that were used to fill gaps between the front deck and the hull. Those wedges eventually wore out and the shook it's self loose. Don't even get me started on the transom cracking issues...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This part was so thin you could move it with your fingers. 1 1/4 inch gap between the deck and transom at its worse and 1/4 in at it's best.


Yikes! If I were them I would be embarrassed. You never know who is going to see your work. Everyone is a potential customer and every boat should be treated with the expectation that people are going to judge it. 

Some customers will rig their boats uglier than imaginable and that isn't something the builder can control, but you can't hide poor workmanship.


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## yobata

Why didn't you take the boat back? I am under the impression that you get a 10year structural warranty on the hull


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## Str8-Six

yobata said:


> Why didn't you take the boat back? I am under the impression that you get a 10year structural warranty on the hull


Being a future owner, I would love for Ankona to reply to all of this. I'm sure they are aware of this post since they have been on here below. Would love to hear an explanation.


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## Megalops

Somebody just got bumped in the production line.


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## Fish_specialist

Megalops said:


> Somebody just got bumped in the production line.


Very likely.


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## paint it black

jmrodandgun said:


> To give a visual of the water intrusion issue, here is a picture for the top. If you're looking down from the top, on both the port and starboard side there are triangle shaped areas filled with foam. However, if it rains or if you're taking spray they get wet. It also makes transom mounting anything an impossibility.


 That must be a really old skiff, as Ankona hasn't built an SUV without a top cap in years. I'm not saying that it's ok, or that they shouldn't have taken care of it. What I am saying is you are making it seem like that is recent work, and that they still put work out like that. That was clearly a really old build. If my mind recalls, they stopped building those skiffs that way sometime around 2010 through early 2011 if even that long ago. They have changed their ways since then, and improved the way they build that skiff. That is what you want from someone, right? That they evolve and grow and learn along the way rather than continuing to do something in a fashion that isn't working? Sure, I'm certain it must have been tough to go through, and I hope you got it taken care of one way or another. But you're making it seem like that is fresh off the showroom floor - present time.


As for the guy with the flipped over axel, it's funny you mention that, as I got my Karavan trailer with the axel the way you wanted yours, and I want to flip it how yours was originally, which I will do here shortly. My buddy's trailer was like mine (the right way according to you) and we flipped his to what you are saying was upside down, and he hasn't had any issues, it's been almost two years since we did that to his trailer. It was the first thing we did when we got his skiff back home. I'm not saying you're wrong, yours just probably had different hardware causing the issue, where I can see they maybe looked at it immediately and thought it was fine without further checking. Should they have checked, yes; but the way you got yours has worked for my buddy for almost two years and I'm doing the same to mine. However, Erin did tell me they weren't happy with Karavan, and have switched over to Continental for the bargain trailers. I had Float-on on my other skiffs, currently have a float-on on one, and two karavan's on the other two skiffs. the Float-On is definitely MUCH nicer.


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## paint it black

I am saying that within the past four years, the skiff manufacture has grown drastically in size, capabilities and quality. There are plenty 4-5 year old Ankona's that haven't had any issues. You are making it seem like this is a recent build. You are a second owner who bought the most affordable option of the cheapest skiff they made years ago. Again, I'm not saying your skiff wasn't built improperly. I am saying they are definitely not putting skiffs out like this these days. And I'm sure there aren't many that were ever built that way, as they wouldn't be around today if that was the case.


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## Fish_specialist

Reality Check-

As of a year and a half ago there are STILL bad practices and Techniques going on in that shop.
-When you pick up a brand new skiff with 12" of missing strake and DRY FIBERGLASS sticking out of the hull there are obviously serious quality control issues.
-De-lamination is a SERIOUS issue on a boat!!!! I had it on the Gunnels.
-Warped hatches are a sign of laziness. Either they overcatylized the resin or they ran all the layers at once.
-All the air bubbles I found told me they didn't use a roller after the first layer of glass.
-When you look at the gap between the liner and the deck, and it looks like someone cut zigzags under there, it is obvious that they didn't take the time to mark their cuts.
- the console being crooked is PURE LAZINESS. It would have taken an extra 45 seconds to take 4 measurements to get it centered and square!!!
-whoever installed my high speed pickup for my livewell decided to just cut a hole in the hull and use 5200 to put it in place. They didn't use the screws provided to keep it there long term!!!
The only other possibility is that they are ignorant as to how to properly build with Fiberglass.. I honestly don't know which is scarier. Being skilled but uncaring, or being ignorant.
Btw-
The newer editions of the skiffs with molded decks and hatches just serves to hide the issues better, but the quality issue hasn't gone away. It's just less evident.


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## jlindsley

I have been following this thread from the beginning and here is my humble input:
- before purchasing a boat you should be sure to do a wet test to understand if it is tippy draft etc. Tippy to one is stable to another. Draft is all determined on what is on a boat. Draft is always a hot topic with all manufacturers and true draft should be measured with two anglers. On another note overpowering w a heavy engine, trolling motor, and other things that are not essential to a true microskiff will increase will boat drafts
-overpowering a boat over manufacturer recommendations is user error. A 50 hp on boat rated for a 30 is asking for safety and also structural problems
-third party manufacturer issues (jack plate etc). I would think it would be a nightmare for a boat manufacturer to handle all third party issues after a boat was built. Each product has its own warranty for a reason
-to my knowledge ankona will build a boat to customer specs meaning for some a basic hull will be purchased etc. Some boats in recession time 2010 were just that and individuals with no building experience that purchased them tried to complete the other 60% of the Build. Errors were made by the individuals and some sold their boats. The new owner of the used boat claimed build quality issues on ankona despite the previous owner build errors.

All this being said every manufacturer has issues. Example 98 pathfinder tunnel stringer issues etc. threads like this keep manufacturers aware of their faults and help them improve their product. I do not currently own an ankona but have met with the owners and they seem to take a lot of pride in their product and rely on word of mouth for advertising. Customer service response time is very fast and they really seem to take a lot of time answering every question each owner has. I have a salt marsh 1656 on order

John


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## jonterr

AfterHours2 said:


> Ankona has been around this site since day 1. I have never seen any negative reviews. Customer service always seem to be top notch. The owner, Mel, chimes in every so often to answer any questions so I would not hesitate to become a customer...


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## devrep

Are you sure this cap was done by the manufacturer? Cause the finish on that deck looks like somebody's half ass home garage project. Maybe someone bought the hull without a cap and did it themselves.



jmrodandgun said:


> To give a visual of the water intrusion issue, here is a picture for the top. If you're looking down from the top, on both the port and starboard side there are triangle shaped areas filled with foam. However, if it rains or if you're taking spray they get wet. It also makes transom mounting anything an impossibility.


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## el9surf

devrep said:


> Are you sure this cap was done by the manufacturer? Cause the finish on that deck looks like somebody's half ass home garage project. Maybe someone bought the hull without a cap and did it themselves.


I would agree with this question. If it wasn't completed by ankona it's hard to blame them for someone's garage project. I would hope that this isn't their work. Regarding what PIB was saying about the age, I believe their fit and finish standards have improved exponentially over the past 5 years. A 3 year old boat compared to a 5 year old boat might look drastically improved. This would be expected with a new builder versus one that has some time under their belt to work out the process.

Not saying the issues that have been posted are right, just trying to bring a different perspective to the conversation.


----------



## GullsGoneWild

Eric-------You have peaked my curiosity. what lead to your decision to flip the axel? What are the advantages? For me, flipping the axel was a necessity. Pm if you don't want to derail this thread


----------



## paint it black

Fish_specialist said:


> Reality Check-
> 
> As of a year and a half ago there are STILL bad practices and Techniques going on in that shop.
> -When you pick up a brand new skiff with 12" of missing strake and DRY FIBERGLASS sticking out of the hull there are obviously serious quality control issues.
> -De-lamination is a SERIOUS issue on a boat!!!! I had it on the Gunnels.
> -Warped hatches are a sign of laziness. Either they overcatylized the resin or they ran all the layers at once.
> -All the air bubbles I found told me they didn't use a roller after the first layer of glass.
> -When you look at the gap between the liner and the deck, and it looks like someone cut zigzags under there, it is obvious that they didn't take the time to mark their cuts.
> - the console being crooked is PURE LAZINESS. It would have taken an extra 45 seconds to take 4 measurements to get it centered and square!!!
> -whoever installed my high speed pickup for my livewell decided to just cut a hole in the hull and use 5200 to put it in place. They didn't use the screws provided to keep it there long term!!!
> The only other possibility is that they are ignorant as to how to properly build with Fiberglass.. I honestly don't know which is scarier. Being skilled but uncaring, or being ignorant.
> Btw-
> The newer editions of the skiffs with molded decks and hatches just serves to hide the issues better, but the quality issue hasn't gone away. It's just less evident.



Reality check -

I'm on my 5th skiff built by Ankona and crew, and haven't had a single issue. None of my friends have had a single issue on all their skiffs. That SUV is a used beat up skiff that was more than likely a backyard deck build.

As I was reminded, Ankona did offer bare hulls at the time with no interior lay out for the DIY bargain guy. These were posted on Craigslist at a fraction of the cost for the extreme bare bones hull. I know there are other forum members that remember this, as this was at a time that Ankona was offering the regular Native (Fibercraft hull with classic flats style deck layout), then they built the SUV version and without even announcing it, they put it on Craigslist. Forum members who found the ad on CL posted it on here and mentioning how similar it looked to the Native, then it was revealed it was in fact Ankona selling this new designed version of the Native calling it the Native SUV, then came the production version with the finished cap, and rolled cockpit.

And if you want to talk about issues with delamination in skiffs, I can list several issues that friends of mine have had with different skiffs. I went with a friend to buy a brand new Maverick HPX Micro off the show room floor, after a few months of having it, the whole top deck had dots lifting through, and you could see where all the core material was and wasn't. He took it to Maverick and all they did was sand it and repaint it, which looked good for another month or so before it happened again. He used it like that for a little bit before he got it fixed again then parked it until he sold it to avoid more issues. Then I have another friend with a Maverick HPX-T who had the original floor delaminate and stringers came apart, not happy with how Maverick built the skiff, he took it to East Cape to have it repaired, paid them a lot of money to fix it and that delaminated and fell apart, too. I have another friend who's Caimen delaminated as we fished one day in flamingo. The center box I was sitting on came off, and the rear bulkhead cracked from one side to the other. And this was on the very first trip using the skiff after it was repaired due to the front bulkhead completely delaminating on its maiden voyage. Another friend had his pathfinder tunnel delaminate and all the stringers came loose, he got it repaired, we took it to flamingo one day and the floor cracked again in three places. I know another guy who's front bulkhead on his caimen came undone while driving in east cape canal in flamingo and busted a gaping hole on the hull side and started taking in water.
I have another friend who was running his beloved HB professional down tin can channel in Flamingo when he heard a loud cracking sound to discover that the gunwale cracked straight through from one end to the other without hitting anything, it simply just cracked through, and HB didn't want to fix it, but sell him another skiff instead. multiple friends with Beavertail strikes who had nightmares as well with floors cracking, floors flexing And the draft being way more than advertised as continuously being able to pole way shallower in a copperhead than a friend in his brand new Strike on multiple ocassions, with different copperheads and different strikes. I can't speak about the Cayo skiffs cause I haven't tested one out, but I can speak about their lamination on their paddle boards as I had one that cracked in five places after only using it three times. If that's what happens to a paddle board I can imagine what might happen on a skiff.


These things happen to all skiff manufactures, and there is a story behind every single one. Of what should have been done, what could have been done, and what actually was done to cause it.

One of the Caimens that I mentioned in East Capes defense it wasn't Built for a customer. It was an employee who hand laid the interior himself, and my buddy paid east cape to rig it for him at their shop. After it started coming apart on its maiden voyage, he had Shallow Water Customs repair it, then it delaminated from front to back. East Cape did fix it eventually, it took close to a year, and a hefty price tag. Even though it came out of their shop, it wasn't an official east cape build since it was built by an employee on the side. So who's to blame? The employee, or the company that allowed the employee to build it and sell it out of their shop and accept money from the purchaser for rigging it?

I got burned on my paddle board when JB went ghost on me for 8 months and I had to fix it myself. Did I sit and bitch about it online? No! I fixed it myself, posted it for sale and let the purchaser know before hand and he was ok with it and then I went and found something better.

Unless you know the full back story, it's hard to judge what happened to a skiff. That's why I'm not judging Ankona based on your experience. I have five skiff builds with Ankona that tell me otherwise, and I am basing my opinion on Ankona based on facts and personal experience which has been nothing but excellence.

I don't mean to put these other skiff companies on blast, but if that's what we are doing here blatantly airing out stuff that has happened amongst skiff builds then why not.

Ultimately, understand what you are buying. Are you buying the bargain deal because it's all you can afford at the time? Don't expect a Mercedes when you're paying for a Kia Sephia. If you're buying a demo boat at a fraction of the cost, an old used beater skiff from some random guy, understand what you are buying. Across the board, when it comes to all manufacturers, there are some case where high end boats fail and there are some cases where low end boats fail. 

Ankona is the type of company that will work with an individual who wants to buy a skiff but isn't in the best position to do so. If one cannot afford the full price, they will sell them a demo skiff for a more affordable pice, now that demo skiff may have seen better days, or it may be a brand new demo skiff they just built. Sometimes it's better to not try and help someone and just charge top dollar, as you will weed out a lot of issues. Don't offer bargain alternatives, only offer the highest quality option (whether it's a more expensive trailer, or whatever it may be) and eliminate some of the issues.


----------



## Swfl angler

paint it black said:


> Reality check -
> 
> I'm on my 5th skiff built by Ankona and crew, and haven't had a single issue. None of my friends have had a single issue on all their skiffs. You bought a used beat up skiff that was more than likely a backyard deck build. As I was reminded, Ankona did offer bare hulls at the time with no interior lay out for the DIY bargain guy. These were posted on Craigslist at a fraction of the cost for the extreme bare bones hull. I know there are other forum members that remember this.
> 
> And if you want to talk about issues with delamination in skiffs, I can list several issues that friends of mine have had with different skiffs. I went with a friend to buy a brand new Maverick HPX Micro off the show room floor, after a few months of having it, the whole top deck had dots lifting through, and you could see where all the core material was and wasn't. He took it to Maverick and all they did was sand it and repaint it, which looked good for another month or so before it happened again. He used it like that for a little bit before he got it fixed again then parked it until he sold it to avoid more issues. Then I have another friend with a Maverick HPX-T who had the original floor delaminate and stringers came apart, not happy with how Maverick built the skiff, he took it to East Cape to have it repaired, paid them a lot of money to fix it and that delaminated and fell apart, too. I have another friend who's Caimen delaminated as we fished one day in flamingo. The center box I was sitting on came off, and the rear bulkhead cracked from one side to the other. And this was on the very first trip using the skiff after it was repaired due to the front bulkhead completely delaminating on its maiden voyage. Another friend had his pathfinder tunnel delaminate and all the stringers came loose, he got it repaired, we took it to flamingo one day and the floor cracked again in three places. I know another guy who's front bulkhead on his caimen came undone while driving in east cape canal in flamingo and busted a gaping hole on the hull side and started taking in water.
> I have another friend who was running his beloved HB professional down tin can channel in Flamingo when he heard a loud cracking sound to discover that the gunwale cracked straight through from one end to the other without hitting anything, it simply just cracked through, and HB didn't want to fix it, but sell him another skiff instead. multiple friends with Beavertail strikes who had nightmares as well with floors cracking, floors flexing And the draft being way more than advertised as continuously being able to pole way shallower in a copperhead than a friend in his brand new Strike on multiple ocassions, with different copperheads and different strikes. I can't speak about the Cayo skiffs cause I haven't tested one out, but I can speak about their lamination on their paddle boards as I had one that cracked in five places after only using it three times. If that's what happens to a paddle board I can imagine what might happen on a skiff.
> 
> 
> These things happen to all skiff manufactures, and there is a story behind every single one. Of what should have been done, what could have been done, and what actually was done to cause it.
> 
> One of the Caimens that I mentioned in East Capes defense it wasn't Built for a customer. It was an employee who hand laid the interior himself, and my buddy paid east cape to rig it for him at their shop. After it started coming apart on its maiden voyage, he had Shallow Water Customs repair it, then it delaminated from front to back. East Cape did fix it eventually, it took close to a year, and a hefty price tag. Even though it came out of their shop, it wasn't an official east cape build since it was built by an employee on the side. So who's to blame? The employee, or the company that allowed the employee to build it and sell it out of their shop and accept money from the purchaser for rigging it?
> 
> I got burned on my paddle board when JB went ghost on me for 8 months and I had to fix it myself. Did I sit and bitch about it online? No! I fixed it myself, posted it for sale and let the purchaser know before hand and he was ok with it and then I went and found something better.
> 
> Unless you know the full back story, it's hard to judge what happened to a skiff. That's why I'm not judging Ankona based on your experience. I have five skiff builds with Ankona that tell me otherwise, and I am basing my opinion on Ankona based on facts and personal experience which has been nothing but excellence.
> 
> I don't mean to put these other skiff companies on blast, but if that's what we are doing here blatantly airing out stuff that has happened amongst skiff builds then why not.


Well said had 2005 tailfisher brand new 8 months later stringer's came loose fixed buy maverick looked like very unprofessional let's just say upon return.


----------



## CedarCreek

Reading this thread has caused me to come out of hibernation and think a lot about my SUV17 which I had built back in 2013 and look over the fit and finish. I don't dispute any of the issues raised so far, but I do recall from the older Microskiff forum (which I miss sometimes) there were a couple of beat up SUV14's that were redone by folks. Nevertheless, for those people considering a new purchase here are my thoughts (SUV only).

Fit and finish - except for a few scrapes of my own doing and a couple of manufacturing birthmarks which I didn't notice when I picked up my skiff, it looks the same today as when I bought it. Still gets compliments at the ramp. 7/10 rating.

Draft - my build was pretty simple but did include a center console and fuel cell. As advertised 5-6 inches. 10/10

Handling - encountered the bow steer issue on the very first trip out and never again. Once I got familiar with the skiff it handled a variety of conditions way better than expected and was much drier than I expected. The only must for this skiff is the weight distribution has to be correct. I don't have tabs so if there is not enough weight in the bow it will porpoise a bit. 8/10

Fishability - I troll (as in offshore troll), anchor, poll, and even paddle my SUV. Don't use a trolling motor. I mostly fly fish (myself or one other angler). Very versatile. 10/10

Stability - I actually think it is quite stable. I have had 3 small hyperactive kids and a seasick prone wife on board and we haven't lost anyone yet. I am sure there are more stable craft out there but this one is better than I expected. 8/10

Customer service - I am over 900 miles away so this was a concern for me. Erin has been very responsible returning my emails so I cant complain. I am not sure exactly how any warranty issues would be handled if something did come up though. Hopefully, I wont need to cross this bridge. More importantly, you can actually get a hold of these folks! I left voice messages and emails with a few of the other more highly touted companies three years ago and never heard back. Also, my build started exactly when it was promised and delivered a couple of months later. 10/10

I cant really offer any thoughts on the other skiffs in the lineup but I trust the other regular posters that have had both positive and negative experiences. Everything is a tradeoff. I had a limited budget available, the wife insisted on me getting a new boat, and I needed a good all-around skiff. If there is a new, cosmetically perfect, better handling skiff out there for roughly 15K I'm listening.

Now back to shoveling the 30 inches of snow in my driveway.


----------



## anytide

ya'll slow down........ i cant read this crap fast enough!


----------



## East Cape

paint it black said:


> Reality check -
> 
> I'm on my 5th skiff built by Ankona and crew, and haven't had a single issue. None of my friends have had a single issue on all their skiffs. That SUV is a used beat up skiff that was more than likely a backyard deck build. As I was reminded, Ankona did offer bare hulls at the time with no interior lay out for the DIY bargain guy. These were posted on Craigslist at a fraction of the cost for the extreme bare bones hull. I know there are other forum members that remember this.
> 
> And if you want to talk about issues with delamination in skiffs, I can list several issues that friends of mine have had with different skiffs. I went with a friend to buy a brand new Maverick HPX Micro off the show room floor, after a few months of having it, the whole top deck had dots lifting through, and you could see where all the core material was and wasn't. He took it to Maverick and all they did was sand it and repaint it, which looked good for another month or so before it happened again. He used it like that for a little bit before he got it fixed again then parked it until he sold it to avoid more issues. Then I have another friend with a Maverick HPX-T who had the original floor delaminate and stringers came apart, not happy with how Maverick built the skiff, he took it to East Cape to have it repaired, paid them a lot of money to fix it and that delaminated and fell apart, too. I have another friend who's Caimen delaminated as we fished one day in flamingo. The center box I was sitting on came off, and the rear bulkhead cracked from one side to the other. And this was on the very first trip using the skiff after it was repaired due to the front bulkhead completely delaminating on its maiden voyage. Another friend had his pathfinder tunnel delaminate and all the stringers came loose, he got it repaired, we took it to flamingo one day and the floor cracked again in three places. I know another guy who's front bulkhead on his caimen came undone while driving in east cape canal in flamingo and busted a gaping hole on the hull side and started taking in water.
> I have another friend who was running his beloved HB professional down tin can channel in Flamingo when he heard a loud cracking sound to discover that the gunwale cracked straight through from one end to the other without hitting anything, it simply just cracked through, and HB didn't want to fix it, but sell him another skiff instead. multiple friends with Beavertail strikes who had nightmares as well with floors cracking, floors flexing And the draft being way more than advertised as continuously being able to pole way shallower in a copperhead than a friend in his brand new Strike on multiple ocassions, with different copperheads and different strikes. I can't speak about the Cayo skiffs cause I haven't tested one out, but I can speak about their lamination on their paddle boards as I had one that cracked in five places after only using it three times. If that's what happens to a paddle board I can imagine what might happen on a skiff.
> 
> 
> These things happen to all skiff manufactures, and there is a story behind every single one. Of what should have been done, what could have been done, and what actually was done to cause it.
> 
> One of the Caimens that I mentioned in East Capes defense it wasn't Built for a customer. It was an employee who hand laid the interior himself, and my buddy paid east cape to rig it for him at their shop. After it started coming apart on its maiden voyage, he had Shallow Water Customs repair it, then it delaminated from front to back. East Cape did fix it eventually, it took close to a year, and a hefty price tag. Even though it came out of their shop, it wasn't an official east cape build since it was built by an employee on the side. So who's to blame? The employee, or the company that allowed the employee to build it and sell it out of their shop and accept money from the purchaser for rigging it?
> 
> I got burned on my paddle board when JB went ghost on me for 8 months and I had to fix it myself. Did I sit and bitch about it online? No! I fixed it myself, posted it for sale and let the purchaser know before hand and he was ok with it and then I went and found something better.
> 
> Unless you know the full back story, it's hard to judge what happened to a skiff. That's why I'm not judging Ankona based on your experience. I have five skiff builds with Ankona that tell me otherwise, and I am basing my opinion on Ankona based on facts and personal experience which has been nothing but excellence.
> 
> I don't mean to put these other skiff companies on blast, but if that's what we are doing here blatantly airing out stuff that has happened amongst skiff builds then why not.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
PIB,
The issues you speak of in regards to us actually isn't correct. Hull was a throw away hull and long term employee wanted it. So he bought it knowing it had issues as he said he wanted to fix it himself on his own time and at his house. We sold it to him as he was going through "life changes" and we looked at this as a way to get him on track...
Well, shortly after he was let go due to performance reasons and thats when he sold his hand laminated hull that he finished out. We learned at that point NEVER to sell a part. No matter the person as in the end it falls back to us.
Price tag wasn't hefty as it was a new replacement hull at a discount. You knowing these things you still wanted a Glide from us though...

The other issue really isn't worth going into detail as we work off customers budget when repairing someones boat. I remember this boat as i video taped us cutting open the floor...

Every company has and will issues. However, after 11 yrs and hundreds of skiffs Im happy to say we love what we do and will continue to strive as everyday we learn something new as a builder and owner. Also its sad to see issues like this thread come about as I feel bad for consumer and builder.
Tight lines!
K


----------



## paint it black

East Cape said:


> ____________________________________________________________________________________________
> PIB,
> The issues you speak of in regards to us actually isn't correct. Hull was a throw away hull and long term employee wanted it. So he bought it knowing it had issues as he said he wanted to fix it himself on his own time and at his house. We sold it to him as he was going through "life changes" and we looked at this as a way to get him on track...
> Well, shortly after he was let go due to performance reasons and thats when he sold his hand laminated hull that he finished out. We learned at that point NEVER to sell a part. No matter the person as in the end it falls back to us.
> Price tag wasn't hefty as it was a new replacement hull at a discount. You knowing these things you still wanted a Glide from us though...
> 
> The other issue really isn't worth going into detail as we work off customers budget when repairing someones boat. I remember this boat as i video taped us cutting open the floor...
> 
> Every company has and will issues. However, after 11 yrs and hundreds of skiffs Im happy to say we love what we do and will continue to strive as everyday we learn something new as a builder and owner. Also its sad to see issues like this thread come about as I feel bad for consumer and builder.
> Tight lines!
> K


You are right, I was interested in the Glide when it came out. As I know things happen with skiffs and people don't know the back story. I knew the back story to dave's Caimen, so I know it's not on you guys in the sense of it wasn't your work that failed. However, that goes to show how you cannot let a hull go if you guys didn't build it 100% as for what can happen after the fact. I personally don't care that his boat failed and wouldn't put the blame of it's failure on you guys as you guys didn't build it. I'm saying that people blame the builder for failure not knowing what really went down.


----------



## TidewateR

devrep said:


> Are you sure this cap was done by the manufacturer? Cause the finish on that deck looks like somebody's half ass home garage project. Maybe someone bought the hull without a cap and did it themselves.


Hi I'm the original owner. I drove down to FL in 2009 I believe to check out these skiffs and came back with a demo boat. It was clear that this boat was possibly the first one built, but I didn't care. I don't think it came out of the mold correctly, as there were some air pockets on one side. I got it for a good price, and I was just happy to be the water. It served me well for the time in which I owned it. 

To be clear some of the work was done by a buddy of mine in an attempt to fix some of the cracking issues I had with the skiff. It's hard to tell who did what, but some of the blame should fall on my friend.

this is how see looked the day after I brought her home.



















here you can see that they used a piece of starboard an attempt to close the gap below the deck


----------



## iMacattack

This is why the automotive industry crushes prototypes. While the original purchasers may understand and willingly accept these defects because they are getting a great deal. After its sold the new purchaser is either not told or unwilling to accept that a first off prototype may not be 100%. 

Kevin, nice to see you're still lurking forums.

Cheers


----------



## paint it black

jmrodandgun said:


> Whoever did the work for you didn't do a bad job and whoever welded the extensions on the tower did a great job as they were the only 8 welds that didn't need to be replaced.100% of the issues came from the factory. In the first picture you can see the gaps in the rear deck where it doesn't line up with the transom. The blame falls on Ankona, not your friend. They let this skiff out the door knowing it had problems.
> 
> I don't expect Ankona to claim this turd but you can't expect me to keep their screw ups hidden either. Perhaps I would have bit my tongue had they not stopped lines of communication after getting pictures of the cracks in the transom.



Just out of curiosity, what outboard do you have on your skiff?


----------



## jmrodandgun

The same one you see in the pictures.


----------



## paint it black

Is that so? Rumor has it your skiff was overpowered. I don't know how true that is, but in the photos you posted you have the motor covered, and you didn't really answer the question. 
Rumors are rumors, it could all be hearsay, I'm just asking for clarity.


----------



## East Cape

iMacattack said:


> This is why the automotive industry crushes prototypes. While the original purchasers may understand and willingly accept these defects because they are getting a great deal. After its sold the new purchaser is either not told or unwilling to accept that a first off prototype may not be 100%.
> 
> Kevin, nice to see you're still lurking forums.
> 
> Cheers


You are correct!
Lesson learned. However we felt bad which is why we replaced hull at cost instead of a MSRP. Not sure how many builders would do that? 
And yes I lurk and always will...I think you know that too?LOL
Hope your good btw?
K


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## jmrodandgun

I think it's pretty clear that there are somethings going on behind the scenes. I don't see any other way for someone I've never met, fished with, or interacted with on a personal level would decide to take it upon themselves to say I've overpowered this hull. Trying to shift blame never does anyone any favors. Maybe there is another explanation for how it was suggested I, for whatever reason, hung too much mother off the back of this thing when in fact I jumped though some hoops to make sure if I repowered I avoided such a thing.

I will be happy to answer any questions via PM but I will not entertain this thread if we are going to go down the road of making accusations.


----------



## anytide

bingo!!!!


----------



## Fish_specialist

jmrodandgun said:


> I think it's pretty clear that there are somethings going on behind the scenes. I don't see any other way for someone I've never met, fished with, or interacted with on a personal level would decide to take it upon themselves to say I've overpowered this hull. Trying to shift blame never does anyone any favors. Maybe there is another explanation for how it was suggested I, for whatever reason, hung too much mother off the back of this thing when in fact I jumped though some hoops to make sure if I repowered I avoided such a thing.
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions via PM but I will not entertain this thread if we are going to go down the road of making accusations.



Yep, someone has been speaking with Mel-


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## jonterr

Ha!
I can't believe this hasn't got shut down yet!
I don't have a dog in the hunt any more, but I'd be shocked as hell if Ankona let that boat leave the shop looking like that!!!


----------



## paint it black

There was a post two or three pages ago where someone said a 50 was put on the skiff rated for a 30? I was just curious to see what you actually had on it since the only photo you had posted, the motor had a motor cover on it. Rather than a photo the previous owner posted of the skiff from 5 years ago.


----------



## GTSRGTSR

The overpowered skiff theory is the first to be brought up with any Ankona. I bought my SUV14 from Ron here without an engine. Speaking to Mel, he warned me about hanging the wrong engine on there(too heavy-too much hp). I followed his advice(makes sense because he built the boat), bought the right engine, had him hang it. So when I had transom issues, I had zero warranty issues.


----------



## anytide

jonterr said:


> Ha!
> I can't believe this hasn't got shut down yet!
> I don't have a dog in the hunt any more, but I'd be shocked as hell if Ankona let that boat leave the shop looking like that!!!


why would it get shut down?
and what does over hp have to do with shoddy construction??


----------



## jonterr

anytide said:


> why would it get shut down?
> and what does over hp have to do with shoddy construction??


Politics!!!
So , Jm, is there any possibility that a previous owner, or one of their buddies, was hauling tail , hit something, ripped the transom off and fixed it the self, and forgot to tell you?
I have a friend who ripped the transom out of his bass boat!

Either way, that , or mfg fault ! U got cause to be pissed in my book!
I won't say any more!!!
Cheers!!!


----------



## paint it black

anytide said:


> why would it get shut down?
> and what does over hp have to do with shoddy construction??


I don't know why people keep going on with it. The original owner already stated he knowingly bought a prototype hull, and had some work done to it by a friend. As shown in the photo, the skiff looked MUCH better when the owner got it from Ankona. Not 5 years later when it's been worked on by several people and what looks like a home depot roller paint job. Ankona should be questioned for actually selling the boat rather than destroying it. 

With that said, my 17 Shadowcast is a one off prototype plug. Hand built, no issues, still looks as good as it did when I got it almost two years ago. The only thing on mine is the back cap where it meets the transom, it was just a 18' cap cut short to fit the 17' hull, they hand laid glass and rolled gelcoat on the edge. I'm perfectly fine with it, looks good enough to me. And if it bothered me, I'd fair it and paint it.


----------



## anytide

politics.......oh no you didnt 
what does over hp have to do with shoddy construction?? -helllerr.


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## jmrodandgun

paint it black said:


> Is that so? Rumor has it your skiff was overpowered.


Whoever told you this, is doing you a gross disservice.



paint it black said:


> I don't know why people keep going on with it. The original owner already stated he knowingly bought a prototype hull, and had some work done to it by a friend. As shown in the photo, the skiff looked MUCH better when the owner got it from Ankona.


Are you kidding? Because it's white in stead of blue it's magically worse? Not to mention you're competely ignoring the fact that I never once mentioned the paint job. Not once. It's just a thing layer of white top coat, it doesn't look any better or worse nor does it add any type of finish to the deck. What you're looking at, is the way it was built, except it's white now instead of blue. Or do you believe that someone removed the rear deck, cut a couple inches off it and replaced it? You know what, I'll put my money where my mouth is. ANYONE that is local to me (Baton Rouge) is welcome to PM and I'll let you go over the boat with a fine tooth comb. I'll even pay for the beer. 

It's cool. Your brand loyalty is clouding your judgement. I see what you're trying to accomplish but it will not change anything.


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## paint it black

I never once said that your boat isn't hacked. Clearly it is not as it should have been built. But again, you are acting as if this is how boats come out of the shop present day. This was a first of it's kind demo boat that came out out a young skiff company in 2009 (according to the original owner) their second skiff design? That was not a production boat, shouldn't have hit the market, but it did. There are some weird things that were done to that boat, the employees that worked at Ankona back then, aren't there today. The ones that were then and are there today are Mel & Rory, and they aren't building the hulls these days anyway. They have grown and evolved along the way. You cannot tell someone who is considering buying a new Ankona that this is what they are going to get, because quite frankly it is not. I can do the same childish invite to people to come check out any of my three Ankona built skiffs and look through them, because they are NOTHING like what you have there. I'm not making an excuse for something that was done many years ago on a prototype hull. I am talking about present day, someone who is looking to buy a new skiff. No matter how you put it, it's not the same quality of a skiff they will get today. I'm done with the back and forth, I have way better things to be doing with my time.


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## jmrodandgun

paint it black said:


> You cannot tell someone who is considering buying a new Ankona that this is what they are going to get, because quite frankly it is not


You don't know that. I've seen some that were just as bad. People have posted in this thread about how bad their experience was. As a matter of fact, I don't recall your copperhead being a fun build process. 

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/my-copperhead-taking-shape.16345/page-7#post-99460


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## GullsGoneWild




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## prinjm6

Brand loyalty $$$


jmrodandgun said:


> You don't know that. I've seen some that were just as bad. People have posted in this thread about how bad their experience was. As a matter of fact, I don't recall your copperhead being a fun build process.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/threads/my-copperhead-taking-shape.16345/page-7#post-99460


I'll see if my buddy will send me pictures of some sketchy work he just found on his 2015 SUV that wasn't built to his exact specs. It's less expensive for him to rework the stuff wrong than trailer it 6hrs back down to Ft. Pierce and take a day off of work unpaid. It's pretty obvious they need a QA inspector to look over boats, check to make sure hardware is tightened properly etc. PIB Akona had better not give you a shoddy boat as much as you advocate for them, I enjoy/envy your work but not everyone has been as fortunate as you have been in dealing with Ankona.


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## el9surf

I think its safe to assume there will never be another prototype skiff sold by any boat manufacturer, no matter the situation. That's the problem when you try and help people. Once it gets sold again the project and all its quirks reflect back on the builder, even if it was never intended for the public. Sadly that falls back on the builder, so I'm sure lesson learned.


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## anytide

come on PIB everyone knows your an ankona fan boy from way back and rub elbows with Mel and company. same as you and your cronies did with your buddy @ strongarm and stood by in his defense even while he was steadily ripping people off and sending out shoddy products or not at all. your boat was decorated in his products and you jumped ship when things went south.
but thats another story for later....
to say youve owned 5 ankonas and your buds own several more and not a single issue is ..... reaching far. Everyone knows how things work and dont work in this biz.
ive been on several ankonas since the beginning and they seemed to be a decent boat and fill the niche, but all companies spit out a few lemons now and again and its how "they" handle it that counts.
your attempts to muddy the water, point blame elsewhere, derail the topic and and discredit the customer who appears to have proof in his driveway is a joke!
I have no beef with ankona, you, or anyone for that matter. this is a forum where peole come to discuss boats, share ideas and get honest info/ answers.
Open discussion is healthy and keeps things from getting out of hand when certain people try to sway opinions and facts to benefit others.
This is not the only ankona boat with issues in this thread by far yet it seems to be easiest for you to discredit. -maybe because its an older boat and easier to fudge the facts.
in all honesty ankona would be one of my first choices for a new skiff in the that price range and they appear to have a great following,
it also appears they are now building a really good skiff and have improved on design, customer service, and quialtiy... well we'll see.
--but they should pull your plug before you pull theirs.

i will locked this thread and charge admission to comment --- i accept paypal.


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## paint it black

jmrodandgun said:


> You don't know that. I've seen some that were just as bad. People have posted in this thread about how bad their experience was. As a matter of fact, I don't recall your copperhead being a fun build process.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/threads/my-copperhead-taking-shape.16345/page-7#post-99460


Again, that was early 2010, you also conveniently left out the part where Mel went out of his way to complete everything and did more than he had to in order to make up for the headaches caused by the delay of the build.

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/copperhead-in-miami.16561/


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## paint it black

anytide said:


> come on PIB everyone knows your an ankona fan boy from way back and rub elbows with Mel and company. same as you and your cronies did with your buddy @ strongarm and stood by in his defense even while he was steadily ripping people off and sending out shoddy products or not at all. your boat was decorated in his products and you jumped ship when things went south.
> but thats another story for later....
> to say youve owned 5 ankonas and your buds own several more and not a single issue is ..... reaching far. Everyone knows how things work and dont work in this biz.
> ive been on several ankonas since the beginning and they seemed to be a decent boat and fill the niche, but all companies spit out a few lemons now and again and its how "they" handle it that counts.
> your attempts to muddy the water, point blame elsewhere, derail the topic and and discredit the customer who appears to have proof in his driveway is a joke!
> I have no beef with ankona, you, or anyone for that matter. this is a forum where peole come to discuss boats, share ideas and get honest info/ answers.
> Open discussion is healthy and keeps things from getting out of hand when certain people try to sway opinions and facts to benefit others.
> This is not the only ankona boat with issues in this thread by far yet it seems to be easiest for you to discredit. -maybe because its an older boat and easier to fudge the facts.
> in all honesty ankona would be one of my first choices for a new skiff in the that price range and they appear to have a great following,
> it also appears they are now building a really good skiff and have improved on design, customer service, and quialtiy... well we'll see.
> --but they should pull your plug before you pull theirs.


I like how you're also a competitor to Bob from Strongarm yourself and drove some of that hatred towards him, and then point out his problems. I stopped dealing with Bob on a personal level. Do your little research and see where I still to this day stood behind the products that he built for me. I never had a failure or issue with his products, I speak based on my personal experience, not what I read on the internet. Even when Bob and I stopped talking, I still spoke highly about his product. My issues with Bob had nothing to do with his products or whatever nonsense backlash he was having on the forum.


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## anytide

i dont hate anyone and hes not my competitor. we have very little in common, your a cool dude and do some great things in this arena but you should let it go..
you owe me a nickel.


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## iMacattack

I like beer!

K - been traveling a lot for business. Was in Philly this afternoon. Finally back home. Was on the road over 100 days last year.

Cheers


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## anytide

cold in philly?.....


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## devrep

I would think that PIB would want to apologize for accusing the owner of overpowering his boat. 

Also I'm curious why you are such a vehement defender of Ankona.


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## iMacattack

anytide said:


> cold in philly?.....


I was stuck NW of Baltimore for the storm. 30" plus of snow. Froze my wedding vegetables off!


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## anytide

did you make a snowman?
30" is almost over your head.....


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## jonterr

anytide said:


> did you make a snowman?
> 30" is almost over your head.....


I'd consider driving 11 hrs for beer!!!


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## Fish_specialist

devrep said:


> I would think that PIB would want to apologize for accusing the owner of overpowering his boat.
> 
> Also I'm curious why you are such a vehement defender of Ankona.



I've got a little inclination as to why-

When I picked up my Guide green Turd, I was given a stack of about 60 brochures and told that if I was directly responsible for a sale, I would receive a referral fee. (Redeemable for gear or money off my next skiff)
Guess who's former skiffs were on the brochures?? Guess who took the photo?? Rory told me that Eric had had them printed and were leftovers. 
I had so many issues from day 1 I never could stomach giving a single one out....


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## jonterr

Fish_specialist said:


> I've got a little inclination as to why-
> 
> When I picked up my Guide green Turd, I was given a stack of about 60 brochures and told that if I was directly responsible for a sale, I would receive a referral fee. (Redeemable for gear or money off my next skiff)
> Guess who's former skiffs were on the brochures?? Guess who took the photo?? Rory told me that Eric had had them printed and were leftovers.
> I had so many issues from day 1 I never could stomach giving a single one out....


Dang!!!


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## mtoddsolomon

What sorority were y'all in? I've never heard such arguing.

I'll say this if as a boat manufacturer and you don't have die hard fans like PIB you're doing it wrong. However, if you get questions about your product and never follow up or have problems with a boat you made and don't make it right when clearly it's manufacturer error, you're doing something wrong too.

I called Kevin from east cape to talk over some boat motor combos for a fury, he didn't just leave me with a short vague answer, he talked me through what would make his boat work the best for my situation. I've heard Liz from BT will do the same. When it comes to a large sum of money that you're spending on essentially a toy, you need to have that type of service and from the sound of it, ankona is lacking there.


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## AfterHours2

You guys should of just bought a Hells Bay


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## jonterr

AfterHours2 said:


> You guys should of just bought a Hells Bay


I thought they suck too?
I still might drive 11 hrs for beer!
Ha


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## fishicaltherapist

What a great forum this is UNTIL, the pizzazing takes over. Hopefully, after everyone has had their say, Mel, who certainly has the erudition,talent, and good business sense to be successful in the skiff building field, will expound his side.


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## firefish

Geez! And I thought I missed a lot when I missed a few episodes of General Hospital !!!! 10 pages !!!! NICE !


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## Cameronc

I think this is an excellent thread for potential Ankona buyers. Ive considered upping my budget when the time comes and look into other brands besides Ankona. Not saying i am completely eliminating them from my options but its definitely nice to see both sides of the discussion.


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## yobata

I like beer
I like fish
Fish drink water
I drink beer
Get on my level fish!


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## AfterHours2

Fish swim in water
Fish screw in water
This guy doesn't drink water


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## Plantation

I'm thinking this thread in itself might make Ankona a better boat company. Feedback in some manner is better than no feedback at all.


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## jonrconner

AfterHours,
The original WC Fields quote was-
"Water, never touch the stuff, fish f__k in water."
It's one of my favorites.
JC


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## Megalops

Another good one is: "What do making love in a canoe and American beer have in common? They're both f*cking close to water"

Well, this thread will make anyone's ass pucker up twice before starting a business. But my observation is this: answer questions and never ignore anyone - ever if possible, be they a tire kicker or someone of means or youths afflicted with affluenza. Nothing will put anyone on planet crazy than being patently ignored. Its not just Ankona but the marine industry in general; they all seem to suck at customer service magnificently and it's mostly because of being swamped with too much work or ego's. Just my 0.02.


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## jonrconner

All they have to do is follow a very basic rule of business and "always do what you say you're going to do."
JC


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## lowcountry88

I am on my third ankona/ saltmarsh product with no complaints. Service has been top notch and communication has always been great. Great boats for the cash.


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## jonterr

lowcountry88 said:


> I am on my third ankona/ saltmarsh product with no complaints. Service has been top notch and communication has always been great. Great boats for the cash.





lowcountry88 said:


> I am on my third ankona/ saltmarsh product with no complaints. Service has been top notch and communication has always been great. Great boats for the cash.


Btw
Ankona is going to be at the Chatlrleston boat show this weekend if anyone wants to check em out !


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## fishingdave

Wow, what a thread.

I have had an Ankona Copperhead for over 2 years now. I have fished minimum of twice a week even during the winter (Atlanta Ga) so I have many hours fishing on my boat. For the price I paid I got a solid, well built boat with great customer service during the buying process and build. I have not had any problems and the boat looks just as good as when it was new. The boat runs great, dry, and gets the job done. One thing I did not expect was all the compliments I get on this great little boat. 

When it is time to get another boat I would consider another Ankona.

Dave


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## copperhead

After taking awhile to digest this thread, let me first say I have no problem with customer feedback and we encourage it. 
What I find disturbing is the manner in which someone can come on the internet and make statements with no recourse. 

There is an entirely different side to Mr Kirkhart's diatribe about his Copperhead and while I could go down point and point, it would really serve no purpose, as I don't see any positive coming from airing out someone else's dirty laundry in public.

However the main point I'd like to make is Mr. Kirkhart never expressed his dissatisfaction with us while he owned the boat. We're only 20 miles away and if his claims about his draft were true, he would only have 5" of freeboard while floating. If I bought a boat like that, the mfg's phone would be ringing off hook. What issues he had with the strakes we promptly fixed. But now after months of selling the boat, its a problem, this is a problem, that's a problem, etc. I have no idea what his agenda is....

What we do is work very hard in producing great boats at a great value and 140 people last year thought so. Yes we have warranty claims and so does Hells Bay, East Cape and Maverick. Warranty work is the top priority over any current production. But if you don't call, we can't fix it. 

We were at the Florida Sportsman show last weekend and thanks to those that stopped by. We will be at the Charleston show this weekend, at the Miami Boat Show after that, then Islamorda and around March 1, the WFLA Outdoor show in Tampa. I encourage anyone to stop by and look over our work firsthand, poke your head in the hatches, whatever you would like and make your own decision about what Ankona is and whether I can backup my claim as offering the best bang for your fishing skiff dollar in the industry.

And in my best Forrest Gump impression, "That's all I got to say about that.."

Thanks,

Mel


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## Whiskey Angler

jmrodandgun said:


> Well that's interesting. What about the abomination I have sitting in my garage? What side of that story do you feel like is not being told?
> 
> What bothers me about the whole thing is when I reached out to you for advice, I was ignored. I never asked you to warranty the hull. I never asked you to do anything other than offer your opinion on an issue that was potentially dangerous. A little courtesy would have gone a long way.
> 
> If I were you I would be embarrassed.


I would be embarrassed if I purchased a used boat and missed that many issues in my pre-purchase inspection.


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## jmrodandgun

Whiskey Angler said:


> I would be embarrassed if I purchased a used boat and missed that many issues in my pre-purchase inspection.


Perhaps if I were a boat builder I would have known better, but I"m not a boat builder so I didn't know better. I am a little embarrassed, I' not going to lie. However, I'm less embarrassed about not knowing the ins and outs of boat construction and more embarrassed that I trusted the builders reputation for doing quality work.


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## iMacattack

Keep it civil


jmrodandgun said:


> Perhaps if I were a boat builder I would have known better, but I"m not a boat builder so I didn't know better. I am a little embarrassed, I' not going to lie. However, I'm less embarrassed about not knowing the ins and outs of boat construction and more embarrassed that I trusted the builders reputation for doing quality work.


Based on all the facts that have come to light, I'd be embarrassed if I were you too.


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## Dan8383

So now what?


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## KurtActual

Bravo. Strong thread resurrection Dan. And with a quality post at that!


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