# Eldora



## Guest

No experience, but I would imagine if weight is close that she performs a whole lot like an early tiller Whip.


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## HBFanatic

Agree but claim is that new materials are lighter/better. Just wondering. Does it work. ?


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## DBStoots

I have not be on one, but I took a close look at one at the Boat Show. I think Boatbrains is probably right. Looks like a very early tiller Whipray to me. Very simple skiff. It only weighs 350 lbs. I think the 16' Whipray weighs almost 600 lbs. HB is using Carbon Innegra and vacuum infusing the hull & deck. Guess that's where the weight reduction comes from. Draft is supposed to be less than 4".


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## Tigweld

For the money I’d buy an outlaw


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## WatermanGB

i agree i 2nd the outlaw, it is a nice boat. Chris Morejohn said the eldora hull came out of the same whipray/waterman mold. So it runs, floats and poles just like a whipray. I saw the eldora at icast and it is bare bones. I have a no liner 16' side console waterman, i think the hull weight was claimed #375-395, so i would expect the performace on the pole to be the same.the Hull looks identical to my waterman. i have a 40hp and the eldora has he 25hp so its a little slower. Plenty fast enough for what it is intended to do. i wouldn't want to cross an open bay in it in a decent chop. i dont see um pumping them out, so that should tell you something.


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## HBFanatic

Real price on Eldora?
Outlaw is my choice also. Talked to and visited with Wilds. We have a quote Just hard for me to get away from HB. Never owned anything else for any length of time


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## lemaymiami

Quick - someone check out the "skiffs for sale" board - for hull #4, tiller etc. - only asking 20k.... for one of the very early no gunnel 16' skiffs...


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## Bluwave

HBFanatic said:


> Real price on Eldora?
> Outlaw is my choice also. Talked to and visited with Wilds. We have a quote Just hard for me to get away from HB. Never owned anything else for any length of time


Not to derail the topic, but what are they quoting for one of those skiffs?


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## SomaliPirate

I think the Eldora is a sweet minimalist skiff, but just not at that price point. If anyone wants to get me one for Christmas, I sure as hell won't complain.


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## HBFanatic

23 with no options


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## DBStoots

Actually, I think the price is $29,900 with all standard spec's, Yamaha 25 HP, galvanized Ram-Lin trailer, etc.


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## DBStoots

WatermanGB said:


> i agree i 2nd the outlaw, it is a nice boat. Chris Morejohn said the eldora hull came out of the same whipray/waterman mold. So it runs, floats and poles just like a whipray. I saw the eldora at icast and it is bare bones. I have a no liner 16' side console waterman, i think the hull weight was claimed #375-395, so i would expect the performace on the pole to be the same.the Hull looks identical to my waterman. i have a 40hp and the eldora has he 25hp so its a little slower. Plenty fast enough for what it is intended to do. i wouldn't want to cross an open bay in it in a decent chop. i dont see um pumping them out, so that should tell you something.


I think one would notice some differences. Because the Eldora is made with Carbon Integra is quite a bit lighter than that (I think around 275 lbs without the motor). I would put a 35 hp on one.


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## Sublime

Yeah I think $23k is hull only. So $76.67 per pound. Ribeye steak is about $12 per pound, but a skiff made out of it would be heavy and flex too much.


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## HBFanatic

DBStoots said:


> Actually, I think the price is $29,900 with all standard spec's, Yamaha 25 HP, galvanized Ram-Lin trailer, etc.


30 for eldora. Quote today. 
24 for Outlaw. Quote last month. No options. Boat motor and trailer with galv RamLin and polling platform. Outlaw has a fixed Alum tank and hatches. Not on Eldora


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## Chris Morejohn

The Eldora is for sure made from my original Whipray mold. 
When I built Whiprays the lightest they got with a full deck and the 3 hatches without a floor was 375 lbs. rigged with tower,fuel tank. I weighed them. With a floor and console with rigging they could weigh up to 415lbs.
If built in all Carbon you would save 10% of the difference in the cloth weight only. That is just exchanging the 10oz glass cloth and replacing it with carbon. You would then have a different feeling skiff in Carbon, jumpy.
So in weight saving in Carbon it would be around 6-7 lbs. tops.
From the pictures of the Eldora verses my past builds I would say it’s not any lighter, and has way less interior.
We used to hang a fully rigged Whipray from a Chintillion scale at boat shows with the 119 lb Merc 25 tiller on it showing its total weight at 550 lbs with a bit of fuel still in the tank. 
Now the Waterman skiffs would weigh a bit less because they had less interior, but did not give the same feel as the real Whipray.
Today everyone thinks an all carbon skiff is the answer. To me it’s not. It’s just takes common sense engineering to build an inexpensive skiff. 
If building a one off skiff like the CONCHFISH you can arrive at a way lighter build without using carbon because you don’t end up with the heavier cockpit floor and stern Wells added weights coming from a mold.
If building with Basalt cloth instead of Carbon you get 10% less stiffness than Carbon, a bit more weight in dry cloth weight but over half the price in materials costs verse carbon, but end up with a higher impact hull resistance than using kevlar at twice the cost.
Why someone hasn't made a mold off an old Waterman and built them like I used to at a price of $18,000.00 rigged I can’t figure.


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## Fishshoot

Isn’t that what original Beavertail did and got sued for?


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## WatermanGB

Great insight Chris very interesting stuff. Chris can you elaborate on what the feeling difference is between the original whipray and the waterman you mentioned. thanks


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## Matts

I think Flip put a short shaft 40 Tohatsu on his Eldora. HB would know but I built one, I would investigate that idea.


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## Chris Morejohn

WatermanGB said:


> Great insight Chris very interesting stuff. Chris can you elaborate on what the feeling difference is between the original whipray and the waterman you mentioned. thanks


The difference between the Whiprays and all the other hulls built using its hull shape is simple.
They are engineered and marketed differently.
To explain the differences let’s get the names strait first.
The Whipray skiff design stands totally on its own in its original design configuration with an all cored hull, Kevlar skin option that everyone ordered, a full deck with two main hatches and a small baitwell hatch aft.
It had 3 options for steering with the side console it’s first run, then tiller, and eventually a center console.
The floor came standard but could be left out if wanted.
When I came up with what now is most widely known as the Waterman skiff the idea was to use the Whiprays great hull shape and match it with a less costly build both to us the builders and to provide a less expensive skiff to the public.
The Waterman skiff evolved with many name changes starting as the Skate, with other names like the Mosquito Lagoon and then the Waterman skiff.
Tom Gordon bought the Waterman molds after I sold out and renamed theses molds after himself.
So just look at the Gordon skiffs being built using Hells bays molds but built to Toms standards.
Now after this happened someone to me screwed up and to give clout to lesser builds started calling every small skiff at Hells Bay a “Whipray....Waterman,” or “Whipray Pro”.
It’s gotten people very confused because they think they have the Whipray build standard but in reality it was a bait and switch and what they really have is a Waterman build. She might be your momma but he ain’t your daddy kinda thing.
The Watermans build differs in what is left out compared to the Whiprays build. To be cost effective and to show great distinction between the 2 brands I built the Waterman skiffs using 1-1/2 matt and 18oz roving in a hull that had a rolled sheer flange. The core in the hulls only went up to the hulls sides. I needed the core to stiffen the bottom but it was not needed in the topsides. This was to be a basic skiff so a bit of wobble was no big deal.
The rest of the skiff was built like the Whiprays. This type of build without a floor felt when running like a regular skiff. Not as stiff. To me for the price it’s in its simplest build shape the best skiff out there for the $.
But ...... it does not feel anywhere as nice as a full deck floored Whipray when running through a good chop.
Whiprays feel like a real yacht, Watermans feel like a skiff.
The price difference at the time was $21,000.00 for a Whip verse $9850.00 for the Waterman.
Everyone wanted the Watermans price but the Whiprays build. Hence the bait and switch later on with adding the Whiprays name to lesser skiffs builds. Both great skiffs weather built by HB or Tom Gordon.

I feel the mistake lots builders have made is to keep trying to compete with the Whiprays mystique instead of looking at what a whole lot of the public can really afford. Outboard manufacturers could care less what the engine is hanging on. Same as the hardware, glass people.
Mel and Erin have figured it out though. So has Harvey Geen.

Beaver tail made a direct splash off a Pros hull. They lost the copyright suit but to my 2and hand knowledge HB had to pay them a good sum to destroy the molds. Too much competition.
HB also bought out Tom because of the competition and confusion.
I would have never spent a cent on either, just would have kept on building to my specs and kept up my customer relations. 

To build a splash don’t copy the hull exactly. Just add to it’s length by an inch and add a styling change to it.
On the Whipray hull just extend the lower reverse spray strake by 4-5”. Now you have a different design.
The Whiprays hull was designed by me before Hells Bay was started. I handed my design to Hal and we started HB. Because it’s hull shape was never copyrighted in its first year its always been known as “ public knowledge”.
Lots of skiffs out here today have borrowed ideas from past skiffs. I for one write about my history of past influences.
I feel all my designs are very original though, and I feel in the market place today that the new Beavertails are totally original designs too along with Harvey’s.


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## Backcountry 16

I'm having an budget whipray built ie Conchfish 16 and couldn't imagine spending that kind of money on the Eldorado but that's just my 2 cents obviousness it's a good hull design (the Conchfish)designed by the og boat designer.


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## HBFanatic

Maybe I should have this 2000 whip touched up and forget about a new boat. Tom Gordon extended the cooler shelf a few years back to make it easier for crippled old bastards like me to move around in


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## manny2376

HBFanatic said:


> Maybe I should have this 2000 whip touched up and forget about a new boat. Tom Gordon extended the cooler shelf a few years back to make it easier for crippled old bastards like me to move around in
> View attachment 101702
> View attachment 101704


that classic skiff is better in my opinion than any new model out there right now, IMO! Do not sell that thing!


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## Guest

HBFanatic said:


> Maybe I should have this 2000 whip touched up and forget about a new boat. Tom Gordon extended the cooler shelf a few years back to make it easier for crippled old bastards like me to move around in
> View attachment 101702
> View attachment 101704


That is exactly what I’d do!


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## fjmaverick

DBStoots said:


> I think one would notice some differences. Because the Eldora is made with Carbon Integra is quite a bit lighter than that (I think around 275 lbs without the motor). I would put a 35 hp on one.


Older 2 stroke? I dont think anyone makes a 35 anymore except mercury's jet.


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## Net 30

HBFanatic said:


> Maybe I should have this 2000 whip touched up and forget about a new boat. Tom Gordon extended the cooler shelf a few years back to make it easier for crippled old bastards like me to move around in
> View attachment 101702
> View attachment 101704


How did the Outlaw compare to your Whip in terms of stability?


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## Bluwave

Net 30 said:


> How did the Outlaw compare to your Whip in terms of stability?


In terms of moving around in the skiff, the whip is a bit more stable. I think the Outlaw is a badass skiff, but it's a pretty narrow - much like the East Cape Glide.

Beam
Whipray: 70"
Outlaw: 59"


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## HBFanatic

That is what bothers me.


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## DBStoots

fjmaverick said:


> Older 2 stroke? I dont think anyone makes a 35 anymore except mercury's jet.


I think you may be right. E-Tecs are available in 30 or 40 HP. The 40 weighs 232 lbs; the 30 weighs 150 lbs. Yamaha also has either a 30 hp or a 40 hp.


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## Sublime

DBStoots said:


> I think you may be right. E-Tecs are available in 30 or 40 HP. The 40 weighs 232 lbs; the 30 weighs 150 lbs. Yamaha also has either a 30 hp or a 40 hp.


The 150 lb etec is short shaft in which power T&T is not available and with no e-start. The dealer can add e-start for around $800 I think. I had that motor and neither of those things bothered me.


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## Charles Hadley

Bluwave said:


> In terms of moving around in the skiff, the whip is a bit more stable. I think the Outlaw is a badass skiff, but it's a pretty narrow - much like the East Cape Glide.
> 
> Beam
> Whipray: 70"
> Outlaw: 59"


Ask finance kid what he thought about stability on bow of my outlaw


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## not2shabby

Charles Hadley said:


> Ask finance kid what he thought about stability on bow of my outlaw


@Financekid1 thoughts?


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## Bluwave

Charles Hadley said:


> Ask finance kid what he thought about stability on bow of my outlaw


haha, why?


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## Charles Hadley

Bluwave said:


> In terms of moving around in the skiff, the whip is a bit more stable. I think the Outlaw is a badass skiff, but it's a pretty narrow - much like the East Cape Glide.
> 
> Beam
> Whipray: 70"
> Outlaw: 59"


He has been on boat,maybe he can give honest,unbiased opinion 


Bluwave said:


> haha, why?


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## TX_Brad

Charles Hadley said:


> He has been on boat,maybe he can give honest,unbiased opinion


I texted him and asked how he liked it, his response was "It's dope". I'm sure he'll go into more detail but from what I've seen of your ride I would agree.


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## Bluwave

Charles Hadley said:


> He has been on boat,maybe he can give honest,unbiased opinion


My opinion was unbiased. I'm actually looking to buy a drake in the next year or so, but I'm looking at the nomad.


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## Charles Hadley

Bluwave said:


> My opinion was unbiased. I'm actually looking to buy a drake in the next year or so, but I'm looking at the nomad.


Rode both actually like nomad better for what I like to do and at what its priced you wont find a nicer boat in its class


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## HBFanatic

Sorry. What the hell does dope mean?


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## bryson

HBFanatic said:


> Sorry. What the hell does dope mean?


fresh, ill, sick bro


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## Charles Hadley

HBFanatic said:


> Sorry. What the hell does dope mean?





bryson said:


> fresh, ill, sick bro


Hahahaha


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## Rene Delgado

DBStoots said:


> I think one would notice some differences. Because the Eldora is made with Carbon Integra is quite a bit lighter than that (I think around 275 lbs without the motor). I would put a 35 hp on one.


Actually Drake boats are also made with carbon innegra.


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## HBFanatic

I am concerned about stability I am “ ill, sick” bro


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## HBFanatic

I am told by HB that the eldora is coming to Bald Head Island soon. I don’t like the fact that it has no hatches and they are not willing to add options 
Outlaw can be customized to your wishes. It still comes in at 
Approximately same price. Both are light carbon inegra builds. 70 vs 59 beam is my concern


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## Fishshoot

Are those waterline beam measurements?


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## Fishshoot

Looking on websites those are both deck beams, I would think waterline beams are what matters for stability.


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## Charles Hadley

Measured my outlaw cockpit floor to put tent in it and it was 56 inches at rear bulkhead inside width 88 inches long bulk head to bulkhead.


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## HBFanatic

Fishshoot said:


> Looking on websites those are both deck beams, I would think waterline beams are what matters for stability.


Stand on Gunnels. That will tell u about stability


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## Financekid1

I was in the center console one. As stable as my waterman. Walked the gunnels. Poles like a freaking dream. It felt like if my waterman was as shallow as a gheenoe. Fit and finnish was excellent.

Drawback.... it slides in turns. Was worried about ripping feeder creeks. Dont want to have to slow down. Talked to Wilds at drake about that and i think i have a solution. I have a deposit in to get one. I wouldn’t get this boat if you plan on fishing 3 ppl.


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## Financekid1

Also... you can build a fiberglass boat thats lighter than carbon inegra. I wouldn’t get hung up on carbon for weight savings. It will help when you smash it into rocks though...


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## HBFanatic

James. Are u using 25 Yamaha?
flat bottom ? Plan to stop sliding. We run narrow creeks wide open in Whipray. No slipping.


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## sotilloa1078

Financekid1 said:


> Also... you can build a fiberglass boat thats lighter than carbon inegra. I wouldn’t get hung up on carbon for weight savings. It will help when you smash it into rocks though...


Correct, carbon inegra isn’t much of a weight savings compared to fiberglass.


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## TX_Brad

Friendly bump, any new updates on the Eldora? Thoughts/opinions?


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## Backcountry 16

TX_Brad said:


> Friendly bump, any new updates on the Eldora? Thoughts/opinions?


Overpriced.


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## Matts

My friend Capt Joe Desrosier of Blue lagoon lodge in Rockport was supposed to take delivery of his in September but maybe engine is slowing him down. Covid


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## TX_Brad

Matts said:


> My friend Capt Joe Desrosier of Blue lagoon lodge in Rockport was supposed to take delivery of his in September but maybe engine is slowing him down. Covid


I met him through a mutual friend a few months back and we spoke of it. I knew his hadn’t shown up yet but anxious to see it and I’ll likely schedule a trip with him once it does. Cost aside, looking to hear real performance #’s.


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## Matts

Capt Joe is a good guide and a very fun person with which to fish! I highly recommend him.


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## oceanrace

Hear about a carbon boat is "jumpy"? I have a full carbon Chittum and it does not feel "jumpy" at all to me. Compared to how my Professional felt running and on the pole, I would MUCH rather have the boat I have now. However the Pro was a beautiful boat, just really heavy. Guess it just depends on what someone needs in a boat.


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## Sonny Palma Sola

I have a deposit on an Eldora, build to start on the 23 of this month. I upgraded to a 40 Tohatsu tiller with carbon handle extension with trim and tilt on it. Also added was a stand up grab bar with all switches on it like on Captain C.A.s. I'll let you hear how it does at the end of the year when delivery is expected, it won't be hearsay. Out the door price was right at $37k. To the guys saying it's over priced, my twist is buy what YOU want, not what someone else thinks they want. Money was not a factor on my decision and the Eldora fits what I wanted, a bare bones skiff to take me back to my youthful days and what I started out with, a light tiller skiff. All the bells and whistles don't catch any fish. To anyone saying the Eldora is an entry level skiff, come man it's dope!


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## CoastalGAfisher07

Saw the Eldora a few weeks back when visiting Hells Bay. It seemed a lot bigger in person that the specs portray due to the simple and open layout. For the right customer, there is probably not a much better platform. It will fish as good as anything and there is not much to go wrong. My biggest complaint is the portable tanks, i just hate dragging portable tanks in and out.


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## Matts

oceanrace said:


> Hear about a carbon boat is "jumpy"? I have a full carbon Chittum and it does not feel "jumpy" at all to me. Compared to how my Professional felt running and on the pole, I would MUCH rather have the boat I have now. However the Pro was a beautiful boat, just really heavy. Guess it just depends on what someone needs in a boat.


Yeah. I don’t think my full carbon is jumpy at all. It’s like a fine sports car, one that is super quiet on the poll and drafts very shallow.


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## FMH

I think the Eldora is a wonderful little skiff. Love the shorter bow and stern decks and the larger cockpit. I think the 40 Tohatsu will be nice. If they weigh the same I would consider the 50 or 60 HP Tohatsu. No downside..... Just my opinion.


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## Sonny Palma Sola

I asked about upgrading power to keep from over reving and a 40 hp was large as they would go. Flip's Eldora has a 40 and he has no complaints with two people from what I hear. I'm not looking for speed, I want a dependable power source that gets me to and from fishing locations in a reasonable time. I want something more than a Johnson 3 hp on a Captain Bat Forgarty wood skiff. For those who may not be familiar with Captain Bat he was a boat/skiff builder from Manatee County in early 1900's. Google him and look at what he built, my skiff, a hand me down from my grandfather was something I will never forget.


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## STR

Has anyone else had any recent experience with the Eldora? I’m headed up to HB next week to place an order on a Marquesa, but am also seriously considering buying the Eldora also to replace my Gheenoe LT25. Thanks in advanced.


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## nollieflip

STR said:


> Has anyone else had any recent experience with the Eldora? I’m headed up to HB next week to place an order on a Marquesa, but am also seriously considering buying the Eldora also to replace my Gheenoe LT25. Thanks in advanced.


Did you go through with either of these?


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## STR

nollieflip said:


> Did you go through with either of these?


I actually put orders and down payments for both at the end of October and was given a 15 month lead on both. I’m going to keep the Marquesa, but I’ve emailed them about canceling the Eldora because I can no longer keep it at home. Waiting to hear from them hopefully this week.

ozzie


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## Matts

Just fished an Eldora for the first time today and it’s a nice, dry, quiet and fishy skiff!


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## nollieflip

STR said:


> I actually put orders and down payments for both at the end of October and was given a 15 month lead on both. I’m going to keep the Marquesa, but I’ve emailed them about canceling the Eldora because I can no longer keep it at home. Waiting to hear from them hopefully this week.
> 
> ozzie


The marquesa should be capable of most fishing scenarios. Lucky you I'm sure you can wait for it.


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## STR

nollieflip said:


> The marquesa should be capable of most fishing scenarios. Lucky you I'm sure you can wait for it.


Yeah, that’s my thinking also and that’s why if I can only have one then it’s the Marquesa. Maybe one day later on the space will clear and I can own both.


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