# Braid..... Again



## Forcefed

I've had good luck with spiderwire ultra cast invisibraid. I have not liked any of the other spiderwire variations I have fished. But I have also fished super slick and had no issues. You should give Daiwa's J braid a shot. It's an 8 carrier braid and for the money I think it's one of the best values out there. As for the braid knotting up on you, I've noticed a few things that tend to help reduce the knots. The first is that the spool isn't over filled. The second is not letting excess slack out after the lure hits the water. Then you reel in several yards of line that is under low/no tension. Several casts later that same spot where the line is under no tension seems to jump off the spool and cause issues. Also, manually closing the bail instead of using the friction trip ramps seemed to help. Hopefully some of this helps ya.


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## Pierson

I had similar experiences with the PP slick. I was getting more wind knots than usual and holy crap does that stuff break easily on structure! I switched back to regular power pro and never looked back. Besides the usual reasons for wind knots (overfilling spool, slack in line, etc.) I have noticed that some rod/reel pairings tend to create more wind knots than others. If the first transition guide is too large for the size of the spool, a hard cast will cause the line to jump off the reel so fast that it will add excess line to the equation and then boom, bad wind knot. I have a couple Cabo 40s paired with the TFO GIS Inshore rods. These are great beefy rods for large inshore species but the size of the guide setup looks to be made to handle heavy mono rather than braid. These setups give me lots of wind knots. I compensate by under filling the spool and not over casting them. So when using braid, look for rods that use more braid friendly guides, like micro guides, or maybe upping your reel size for a particular rod will help. Just my 2 cents, if you are keeping slack out of your line and not over filling your spool, there is likely other factors at play than the line you use. (except the super slick, not a fan)


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## Smackdaddy53

I have tried pretty much everything and went back to Sufix832 because it is just a great braid.


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## YnR

I second the Invisibraid. I seem to get less knots with the heavier braid. I used to use 10 lb but now am using 15-20 for most of my inshore setups with fewer wind knots. 

I know 832 is popular but I hate it. It doesn't lay well on the spool and seems to be less pliable so felt like casting distance was pretty poor. 

I feel like the reel has as much impact as the line. What setup are you using?


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## windblows

I've gone through the braid battle for years and have tried everything out there at some point. I hate the PP Slick as it flattens out (one of my least favorite characteristics of the "coated" braids. I like the Suffix fairly well, but what I really keep coming back to is the regular PowerPro in 10 lb. I feel like it has the best casting distance:abrasion resistance:strength ratio for most inshore applications.

That said, for my more finesse setups, I have found that I am really liking the TufLine Western Filament as you can get it in 6 and 8 lb and it's still much stronger and more abrasion resistant than it's mono equivalents.

Oh and I never have wind knot issues with the regular PowerPro, Suffix and TufLine. Seriously never


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## mwong61

FSUDrew99 said:


> After battling wind knots on my PP slick braid I'm about to make a jump to something else and give it a shot.
> 
> Have a handful of rod/reel setups with the PP now. Some are better than others but the new braid even after stretching it and dragging behind the boat, retrieving it weighted, feathering drag, bail not overfilled,etc etc it's getting ridiculous plus that super slick is weak as hell and can break with the smallest of nicks.
> 
> Looking for some input on diamond braid. Heard good things about it but also have a manager of a discount marine telling me he got spooled up with some Spider Wire Ultracast and swears by it over his old PP and Suffix 832.
> 
> Just looking for something that is strong and is better than PP on wind knots when brand new.
> 
> This is a Ford, Dodge, Chevy type of question but I've about had it with PP.


What kind of reels are you using? I've pretty much been fishing Stradics all the way back to the FG series. The older reels definitely were more wind knot prone due to the spool design and how the line comes off the reel during a cast and when you close the bail. Each successive new generation of Stradic since then has been better and better. Currently fishing the Stradic FK series.

Having said that, I've also developed some habits to minimize wind loops and that's to always close the bail by hand after casting and not by the crank and always take slack out of the line before starting to reel. This has pretty much become second nature and eliminates the chances of getting stray loops on the spool. 

I've tried a variety of lines, some of which I really disliked. I've pretty much settled on the original PowerPro and/or Sufix 832.


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## FSUDrew99

So my main combos I use are a new Daiwa BG 2500 and a Shimano Symetry 4000 both on GLoomis E6X rods. I have had both regular PP and the slick PP on the new Daiwa and they both are giving me bad wind knots. Not over spooled and I feather the line as it is casting and manually shutting the bail. Like mentioned before I am not putting a lot of slack in the line and normally don't have that many issues with sind knots especially once the PP is older and less memory.

The Symetry has the slick line and with my buddy fishing it as well it has been getting wind knots.

Im thinking its not a combo situation or a user error, but the new line is just not doing it for me. My new Daiwa when I got it was spooled with regular green PP from a big spool off the shelf and it was giving me issues as well. More so than normal, so that's when I went to the slick and its horrible and breaks way too easy.

Im thinking about giving the Spider Wire Ultra Cast a shot....


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## Pierson

Yeah...the setups you are using should work great. What lb braid are you using? Also, were these all spooled from the same spool? I once had a spool of regular PP 15 that somehow got twisted like crazy when it was brand new. when you pulled the line off thew reel to fix the find knot it just kept twisting and doubling up on itself endlessly. I got frustrated and stripped all the line off and put new line on from a different spool and it was fine. Besides the super slick giving you problems in general, you hay have got a defective/funks spool of line.


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## Fish-N-Fool

Used to throw a lot of Stren Superbraid in 20-30 lb test on spinning gear, primarily for dock fishing bass. The stuff was great against abrasion and was very supple, I'm using 832 now in 10lb and can't complain, it casts well and seems to have good abrasion resistance. Not sure if they still make that Stren Superbraid but it might be worth a try if they do.


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## Whiskey Angler

I've never in my life had a wind knot with my casting reels with braid. Plenty of nests, but no wind knots. Why are the Florida guys so steadfast on using spinning rigs? I'm not criticizing, seriously wondering? Smoother drag?


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## LowHydrogen

Whiskey Angler said:


> I've never in my life had a wind knot with my casting reels with braid. Plenty of nests, but no wind knots. Why are the Florida guys so steadfast on using spinning rigs? I'm not criticizing, seriously wondering? Smoother drag?


Throwing lighter stuff further. At least that's my reason, but I use both if I'm not throwing feathers.


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## MooreMiller

My last Penn Fierce had a lot of slop in the spool (up and down). I had more play when reeling in a big fish and less when reeling in a small lure. 

This play caused the PP to lay weird on the spool and would catch the line being pulled off the spool and make horrible knots. 

The reel worked 100% when new but got steadily worse everytime I replaced the braid. 

The knots got worse and worse until I found the issue. 

Just another thing to look out for!


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## FSUDrew99

Whiskey Angler said:


> I've never in my life had a wind knot with my casting reels with braid. Plenty of nests, but no wind knots. Why are the Florida guys so steadfast on using spinning rigs? I'm not criticizing, seriously wondering? Smoother drag?



For me personally it's either spinning or fly. 

Always used PP and occasionally would get a wind knot here or there. 

It's been a lot worse recently though. When I say wind knot it's just general for a clump of line that has tangled together not from the braid to leader connection hitting the guides because I throw a short leader to prevent that, it's more so the line gets a small loop on the spook somehow I'm assuming then when casting it it catches itself and makes a cluster. Small or big it's a pain in the ass and I just waste line cutting it out and retying.


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## Pierson

I've been doing my custom spinning rods lately using the Microwave guides. They may look a little funky but after a dozen builds or so I have come to really like them. They pretty much eliminate wind knots all together. I have only had 2 wind knots ever using these guides over a few years. They are starting to show up in shops more and more.


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## Smackdaddy53

I fish a Ci4 and a Ballistic spinning reel for chunking live bait and a Lew's LFS and Quantum EXO baitcaster for all lure fishing. I don't like the way a spinning reel feels when working a lure. I feel like a baitcaster has a more connected feel and never gets wind knots.


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## Forcefed

Pierson said:


> I've been doing my custom spinning rods lately using the Microwave guides. They may look a little funky but after a dozen builds or so I have come to really like them. They pretty much eliminate wind knots all together. I have only had 2 wind knots ever using these guides over a few years. They are starting to show up in shops more and more.


This^^^^ I agree completely. I have done several inshore builds and the microwaves perform awesome and don't seem to have wind knot issues assuming the other factors are mitigated. Only issue is the small running guides don't seem to pass leader knots all that well, but it's the nature of the beast when running small diameter ring guides.


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## Pierson

Forcefed said:


> This^^^^ I agree completely. I have done several inshore builds and the microwaves perform awesome and don't seem to have wind knot issues assuming the other factors are mitigated. Only issue is the small running guides don't seem to pass leader knots all that well, but it's the nature of the beast when running small diameter ring guides.


I learned to tie the FG knot for that exact reason. Now im good to go! They make the Microwave 30 now which has a double foot transition guide and larger running guides. I just wish they made a size between the two as the Microwave 30 look a little large for an inshore set up and the regular ones are just a hare on the small side. The small running guides really give you a good feel for your blank though. Lots of rod control.


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## FSUDrew99

I like the idea of the microwave guides... smaller diameter and less chance for the line to get sloppy. I always keep my leaders short and never reel them into the guides anyways. Its a pet peeve.


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## Forcefed

Pierson said:


> I learned to tie the FG knot for that exact reason. Now im good to go! They make the Microwave 30 now which has a double foot transition guide and larger running guides. I just wish they made a size between the two as the Microwave 30 look a little large for an inshore set up and the regular ones are just a hare on the small side. The small running guides really give you a good feel for your blank though. Lots of rod control.


 FG knot doesn't work well for light mono leaders. Fluoro seems to work fine as it's stiffer but mono not so much. Anything over 20lb seems no issues.


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## Pierson

Forcefed said:


> FG knot doesn't work well for light mono leaders. Fluoro seems to work fine as it's stiffer but mono not so much. Anything over 20lb seems no issues.


 Never tried it on anything less than 20, good to know!


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## devrep

FSUDrew99 said:


> So my main combos I use are a new Daiwa BG 2500 and a Shimano Symetry 4000 both on GLoomis E6X rods. I have had both regular PP and the slick PP on the new Daiwa and they both are giving me bad wind knots. Not over spooled and I feather the line as it is casting and manually shutting the bail. Like mentioned before I am not putting a lot of slack in the line and normally don't have that many issues with sind knots especially once the PP is older and less memory.
> 
> The Symetry has the slick line and with my buddy fishing it as well it has been getting wind knots.
> 
> Im thinking its not a combo situation or a user error, but the new line is just not doing it for me. My new Daiwa when I got it was spooled with regular green PP from a big spool off the shelf and it was giving me issues as well. More so than normal, so that's when I went to the slick and its horrible and breaks way too easy.
> 
> Im thinking about giving the Spider Wire Ultra Cast a shot....


Drew how are you liking the E6X rods? I'm a bit of a gloomis freak, have a greenwater glx and an nrx. Was handling an E6X and it felt pretty good.


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## devrep

btw, there are some guys on here who will tell you there are no such thing as wind knots, just bad technique.


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## Zika

Always manually flip the bails on the spinners with no issues. Power Pro spectra line starts out white. Wax is added so the colored tints will adhere so the line is a little stiffer until the wax starts to crack and flex. Much more flexible and manageable afterwards. 

Have 2 E6X spinning and one casting rod. Love the action (medium light, extra fast), sensitivity and performance. Plenty of backbone to handle big reds and trout in my local waters just a ways north of you, Devrep.


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## devrep

I agree with flipping the bail by hand, way less line twist. But sometimes things happen.


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## DBStoots

I really like the Daiwa J Braid and the Suffix 832. No problems with either.


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## Smackdaddy53

Wind knots


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## FSUDrew99

devrep said:


> btw, there are some guys on here who will tell you there are no such thing as wind knots, just bad technique.


Love mine. I wanted the split cork handle so I went with technically the freshwater black and green rod, but same construction as the salt inshore E6X. It's stiff and I like the action and feel of it. I hate sloppy flimsy rods especially throwing hard plastics.

As far as the "wind knot" prevention I always feather my line before hitting the water and manually close the bail...

I think I've read that on this form alone 6 times already ha


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## devrep

I've been using Diawa Samurai and just recently the less expensive Diawa J braid. Like them both.


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## permitchaser

I use PP and don't have any problems. Now my grandson's can wind knot or nest anything braid or mono. I have had to cut out the bad ones, usually braid is the worst in untangling a nest


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## Godzuki86

I used to use Sufix832. I still like it though. I have Spider wire ultracast invisibraid on all my rods now and love it (from 10lb to 50lb). It seems to cast further than the Sufix which is the only reason I switched. I got wind knots like crazy with the PP.


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## FSUDrew99

Just picked up some 15 lb SpiderWire Ultra Cast Invisibraid. Looks good and ready to give it a shot tomorrow. 

It'll be interesting how dirty it is going to get in the tanic water.


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## Godzuki86

FSUDrew99 said:


> Just picked up some 15 lb SpiderWire Ultra Cast Invisibraid. Looks good and ready to give it a shot tomorrow.
> 
> It'll be interesting how dirty it is going to get in the tanic water.


If you ever get snagged in a tree and it breaks off and leaves you with a mess to clean up slowly pull the ends of the braid and it will pull out. I have only had one knot that couldn't quickly be pulled out. The white stays pretty clean down here.


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## swaddict

I rarely get wind knots and I use PP slick on all my inshore and even my offshore tackle. The only time I get a wind knot is on one of my Shimano inshore rod that has a broken hook holder above the hand grip. The line will catch that sometimes.


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## Backwater

Just a Heads-up. Threads like these about general fishing and fishing equipment and techniques, should be posted on the "General Fishing Forum" here on microskiff.


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## FSUDrew99

Backwater said:


> Just a Heads-up. Threads like these about general fishing and fishing equipment and techniques, should be posted on the "General Fishing Forum" here on microskiff.


10-4


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## FSUDrew99

Fished the spider wire ultra cast today for a few hours. Not one wind knot and it was windy this afternoon. Casts better than my PP and PP slick. 

Think I found my new favorite braid.


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## Godzuki86

Good deal!


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## Smackdaddy53

FSUDrew99 said:


> Fished the spider wire ultra cast today for a few hours. Not one wind knot and it was windy this afternoon. Casts better than my PP and PP slick.
> 
> Think I found my new favorite braid.


Now let's see how long it takes to start losing the coating and getting fuzzy. That's the next thing I look for but some cats like changing line a lot. I just flip it on the spool to get to the fresh stuff over and over until it is worn out on both ends and just add mono backing so I can cut off the worn parts and have fresh line.


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## FSUDrew99

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Now let's see how long it takes to start losing the coating and getting fuzzy. That's the next thing I look for but some cats like changing line a lot. I just flip it on the spool to get to the fresh stuff over and over until it is worn out on both ends and just add mono backing so I can cut off the worn parts and have fresh line.


Ha well I'm sure it won't be as crappy as the PP slick!


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## Str8-Six

The spooling of the reels matter. You can bring it to a tackle shop and they can spool the line without twist and tight. I have spinning reels that I use specifically for braid and others specifically with mono. My Daiwas get the braid since there oscillation(less chance of braid digging in to itself) is faster and they have bigger spools than shimano.


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## Smackdaddy53

Str8-Six said:


> The spooling of the reels matter. You can bring it to a tackle shop and they can spool the line without twist and tight. I have spinning reels that I use specifically for braid and others specifically with mono. My Daiwas get the braid since there oscillation(less chance of braid digging in to itself) is faster and they have bigger spools than shimano.


EXACTLY
When spooling a baitcaster you have to hold the spool of line opposite of how it goes on the spool of the reel and the same goes for a spinning reel.


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## Cam

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I have tried pretty much everything and went back to Sufix832 because it is just a great braid.


This. It isn't the cheapest but it hasn't failed me in any appreciable way.


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## DeepSouthFly

Take a look at Kast King. You can get a 1000 yard spool on e bay for like $25. I have 3 spinning reels and 2 bait casters loaded with it and I love it. I have the 15 pound. Casts super smooth and line has no memory like power pro has when its brand new. Very thin diameter as well. I am very pleased with its performance.


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## DeepSouthFly

I have used Daiwa J braid and it's super smooth.


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## Smackdaddy53

DeepSouthFly said:


> Take a look at Kast King. You can get a 1000 yard spool on e bay for like $25. I have 3 spinning reels and 2 bait casters loaded with it and I love it. I have the 15 pound. Casts super smooth and line has no memory like power pro has when its brand new. Very thin diameter as well. I am very pleased with its performance.


Have you ever had a fish break you off other than getting wrapped up in trees etc? I'm all about saving a buck but fishing is not a hobby you want if you are trying to save money! I try to buy the best of everything I can reasonably afford and the link between myself and the fish I'm trying to catch is top priority but that's just me. I'd rather skimp elsewhere to buy the good stuff.


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## Cam

DeepSouthFly said:


> Take a look at Kast King. You can get a 1000 yard spool on e bay for like $25.


I ended up giving mine away. The killer for me was the break offs when I would get hung up. Most of the time the leader snaps long before the braid but with this stuff I found that the braid almost always went before the leader. Like most braids it loses its color but it does so ridiculously fast. 

That is just my experience. I am sure it works well enough but when a big ole cobia or red fish is on the line I don't want to be worrying about the buck I saved on my braid.


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## DeepSouthFly

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Have you ever had a fish break you off other than getting wrapped up in trees etc? I'm all about saving a buck but fishing is not a hobby you want if you are trying to save money! I try to buy the best of everything I can reasonably afford and the link between myself and the fish I'm trying to catch is top priority but that's just me. I'd rather skimp elsewhere to buy the good stuff.


I'll say this, I have the 20 pound on some of my BC's for bass fishing. Drag is locked down on 7 ft or longer heavy action rods and when I set the hook I send it home, especially when flipping, and I haven't popped that braid yet. I pretty much try to break it just to see what I can get away with. I promise I was skeptical too at first but I am a believer in this stuff. It's on all of my personal reels besides some 50 daiwa j braid I have on my 8ft flipping stick. IMO power pro is way overpriced. I mean it's braided line, not made of some kind of space age shit.


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## DeepSouthFly

If this was a hobby I didn't take seriously I would have a john boat lol


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## Smackdaddy53

DeepSouthFly said:


> I'll say this, I have the 20 pound on some of my BC's for bass fishing. Drag is locked down on 7 ft or longer heavy action rods and when I set the hook I send it home, especially when flipping, and I haven't popped that braid yet. I pretty much try to break it just to see what I can get away with. I promise I was skeptical too at first but I am a believer in this stuff. It's on all of my personal reels besides some 50 daiwa j braid I have on my 8ft flipping stick. IMO power pro is way overpriced. I mean it's braided line, not made of some kind of space age shit.


That's what I'm talking about! Is it 4 strand or 8?


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## mwong61

DeepSouthFly said:


> I mean it's braided line, not made of some kind of space age shit.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene

Actually, it is made of space age sh*t. That's why its used as much as kevlar in lightweight body armor applications.


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## DeepSouthFly

Smackdaddy53 said:


> That's what I'm talking about! Is it 4 strand or 8?


10 to 50 is 4 strand and 60 to 150 is 8. That's what their site says at least. Ok ok you got me wong my B. haha


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## jimsmicro

I've tried the cheaper braids and found them even stronger than equivalent power pro, but much thicker and coarser. I've used probably 1500 yards of it, but just bought a bulk 1500 yard spool of regular Power Pro and enjoy it most of all. I don't find one brand more prone to knots than any other, but do find that some rod/reel combos are just flat out prone to it. I've got one or two rods that just flat out suck, and it's got to just be a bad combination. Maybe either the first eyelet or the diameter of the spool is either too large or too small relative to each other. I don't think switching brands can cure an ill-fitting combo unfortunately. I wish it did. Granted many wind knots are due to poor technique. Leaving slack in the line and tossing light baits very hard are the two most common "techniques" that will make a mess out of any setup.


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## Sylvia Olson

Sufix832 what I will suggest.


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## GreggNY

Count me in with the PP super slick wind knot crowd. I've been getting a ton with the 15lb on my light spinner but only a random one here and there with the 30lb. I'll be trying out some of the other suggested lines in this thread


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## Smackdaddy53

GreggNY said:


> Count me in with the PP super slick wind knot crowd. I've been getting a ton with the 15lb on my light spinner but only a random one here and there with the 30lb. I'll be trying out some of the other suggested lines in this thread


Seriously, check out Sufix832


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## EdK13

On spinning gear I am going back to noisy and stiffer 4 strand- trying j-braid next. In wind spinning gear definitely seems more prone to wind knots with limp eight strand that has a few hours on it. Bait casters, much less so. Smack you do what 90%+ of your arty work with bait casters right? I do not even think you have ever gotten a wind knot with me on board or wading - despite there normally being 10-20 mph wind when we fish. ...me - HA dozens with eight strand despite drag ripping after I close the bail to keep things tight and maybe a couple with noisy wind tamer. Keeping line tight and well seated helps. As does not using a backer. Electrical tape with a reverse clinch is what has been suggested to me. Some of the newer reels are braid ready with a rubber seat. A good thing imo.


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## Smackdaddy53

EdK13 said:


> On spinning gear I am going back to noisy and stiffer 4 strand- trying j-braid next. In wind spinning gear definitely seems more prone to wind knots with limp eight strand that has a few hours on it. Bait casters, much less so. Smack you do what 90%+ of your arty work with bait casters right? I do not even think you have ever gotten a wind knot with me on board or wading - despite there normally being 10-20 mph wind when we fish. ...me - HA dozens with eight strand despite drag ripping after I close the bail to keep things tight and maybe a couple with noisy wind tamer. Keeping line tight and well seated helps. As does not using a backer. Electrical tape with a reverse clinch is what has been suggested to me. Some of the newer reels are braid ready with a rubber seat. A good thing imo.


One day I'll try sight casting with a spinning reel but I love my baitcasters. You know what I use my egg beater reels for but I dare not mention the C word on here.


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## DeepSouthFly

When it comes to close quarter sight fishing a baitcaster is the way to go. It's just so much easier and faster IMO. But as far as lines, I do like Daiwa J braid. It's very slick and doesn't have much memory. But as far as buying in bulk and great quaility, Kast King. I literally have zero complaints. I mentioned it earlier on this thread and someone said something about not putting cheap line between them and a fish but I have used it on all my reels and I think it's great.


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## Smackdaddy53

DeepSouthFly said:


> When it comes to close quarter sight fishing a baitcaster is the way to go. It's just so much easier and faster IMO. But as far as lines, I do like Daiwa J braid. It's very slick and doesn't have much memory. But as far as buying in bulk and great quaility, Kast King. I literally have zero complaints. I mentioned it earlier on this thread and someone said something about not putting cheap line between them and a fish but I have used it on all my reels and I think it's great.


That was me, sorry I sounded negative. I never tried the KastKing but am probably going to try J-Braid on my new Lew's baitcaster just to see how I like it. Once I get confident in a system (rod, reel, line, jighead, lure etc) I am reluctant to change because I hate losing fish!


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## DeepSouthFly

haha don't worry I didn't take it personal! @Smackdaddy53 I use the J braid on one of my bass rods for flipping. It's 50 pound and it casts great. It's slick, hardly any memory so I know the lighter lb test would be pretty slick. I used to be a big Power Pro guy but the wind knots I got tired of. So I just googled best fishing braided line and I came across Kast King. It wasn't no. 1 but the price is what had me interested. 1000 yards of PP is about $100 but 1000 of Kast King is $26 off e bay. So I had to try it. It has no memory at all in the 20 pound class. Just bought the 40lb and it has some but mainly gonna be using it for flipping grass for largemouth.


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## labman1

+++++ on the Suffix 832. I re-spooled several reels the past couple of weeks with different braid. The Suffix blew all the others away with the smoothness of casting, lack of stretch and general performance. I'm a big time believer in it.


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