# Loop-to-loop connection: Does it hinge?



## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

I just don't like loops, except tying on most flies.
Been that way for close to six decades.
Don't have any reason to say anything good or bad about them.
My dad was into using loops, even for his backing.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I use loop-to-loop for tippet to leader and leader to fly line. They do not hinge.


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## 59441 (Oct 2, 2020)

In my opinion it does. Although that might just be my cast 

Recently started doing this and I really like the feel of the way the leader lays down more softly (in my opinion).






Only thing i do differently is instead of loop to loop i tie double uni to go from mono 30lb to floro. 30lb


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

mro said:


> I just don't like loops, except tying on most flies.
> Been that way for close to six decades.
> Don't have any reason to say anything good or bad about them.
> My dad was into using loops, even for his backing.


Not a fan of loop to loop here for 40+ years.

Plenty of good joining knots to use. My suggestion has always been learn a few knots, practice to tie them well. Practicing tying them in the dark will do no wrong either.

I use perfection loop for some line to hook but mostly I straight tie typically with a uni. Albright for joining lines except fly line to leader, for that I've been well served with the nail knot. For big fish fishing 100 lb + a Bimini twist works as a double line leader. I'm talking about Baja cow tuna that can break off due to line rub and big tarpon fishing. Just my favorites, I am not saying they are the best.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

All of my fly lines have a permanently installed butt section nail knotted to the end of each one (double nail knot for a full Intermediate line since a single nail knot will slip...) ranging from 3.5' of 30lb for a 7wt line all the way to a 6' butt section of 60lb for a 12wt... Every one has a surgeon's loop for the bitter end and all of my leaders (class leaders to IGFA specs or just simple "poor boy" leaders) have a loop in the end that loop to loops onto the butt section... Here's a pic of the loop end of a class, quick change leader made with 20lb hard mason nylon - note the doubled surgeon's loop... 









All anyone has to do with loop to loop leaders is pull them really tight by hand (tight enough that it hurts your hands...) for a moment or two and they'll function as a unit until you un-loop them. That's how I was taught (all those years ago) and it's never failed me. I will admit that anyone fishing in weedy or algae laden waters shouldn't use looped connections since they tend to cause problems, picking up weed, etc. I'm also not particularly fond of looping the fly line end of a butt section to a ready made loop on the end of a new fly line - but I'll use them for convenience even though they tend to hang in the tip top at inconvenient moments...


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

lemaymiami said:


> All of my fly lines have a permanently installed butt section nail knotted to the end of each one (double nail knot for a full Intermediate line since a single nail knot will slip...) ranging from 3.5' of 30lb for a 7wt line all the way to a 6' butt section of 60lb for a 12wt... Every one has a surgeon's loop for the bitter end and all of my leaders (class leaders to IGFA specs or just simple "poor boy" leaders) have a loop in the end that loop to loops onto the butt section... Here's a pic of the loop end of a class, quick change leader made with 20lb hard mason nylon - note the doubled surgeon's loop...
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> ...


That's how I make my tippets, at home, so I don't have to waste time on the water. Bimini twist and 3 turn surgeon's loop with the doubled line. 100% strength. The loop at the end of my leader is large enough to loop on a tippet with fly attached. Same tie for the loop in the end of my backing, large enough to get a coiled fly line through.


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## Toad (Dec 13, 2020)

lemaymiami said:


> All of my fly lines have a permanently installed butt section nail knotted to the end of each one (double nail knot for a full Intermediate line since a single nail knot will slip...) ranging from 3.5' of 30lb for a 7wt line all the way to a 6' butt section of 60lb for a 12wt... Every one has a surgeon's loop for the bitter end and all of my leaders (class leaders to IGFA specs or just simple "poor boy" leaders) have a loop in the end that loop to loops onto the butt section... Here's a pic of the loop end of a class, quick change leader made with 20lb hard mason nylon - note the doubled surgeon's loop...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, Captain. This is great information.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I've always used a snelled knot or nail knot attaching butt section to fly line. Double the knot is better. Then I use blood knots for the rest of the leader. IMHO, surgeons knot and uni knots aren't as strong as a blood knots. I've pulled uni and surgeon knots out. The best use of a uni is braid to mono. I may try @FlyBys use of a loop to leader but need to ask him exactly how he does it, bimini knot loop to leader?


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

FlyBy said:


> I use loop-to-loop for tippet to leader and leader to fly line. They do not hinge.


Not sure I'd use a loop to attach a tippet for tarpon, but I do it for redfish without any ill effect.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Use the built in loop on the fly line. Other loops in the leader create drag, turbulence, or catch grass. Not the best for clear water spooky fish. Not clear water, or not spooky fish, or tarpon looped leaders are great for quick replacement.
Blood knots are great for building you own leaders. I like direct tie knots including the fly and the smallest diameter leaders and bite tippet you can get away with.


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

All the leaders I tie have a perfection loop used loop to loop with the fly line. I've never noticed a hinge. Early on I didn't know how to tie blood knots and made leaders using loop to loop connections between every section and even then I didn't notice hinging. I think variation in material or vastly different diameters from section to section is more likely to cause hinging than the connections themselves


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## Cory Michner (Jan 28, 2020)

At least for flats fishing, I use a loop-to-loop from flyline to butt section, but not within the leader itself. I change leader length (including butt section) a lot based on the situation, so I like that I can change out frequently and easily. Personal preference.

I can't say I've noticed hinging. My guess is that it's most important to have the right diameter, stiffness, and length of butt section and any additional benefits from a direct connection are probably minimal.

However, I do think there are some other reasons to use a direct when the conditions dictate: strength of the connection, allowing the connection to pass through the guides cleanly, etc.

If you try both out and find that a direct connection is magical, please let me know immediately 😂.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Didn't read all the replies so this may be a repeat.

I run the end through my loops twice instead of once, it ends up looking like a reef knot instead of just a handshake loop if they makes sense. Seems to pull straighter, and I think it's stronger.

Good luck


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## MOUNTAIN-OCEAN-TROUT (Sep 17, 2020)

I use loop to loop fly line to leader and blood knot leaders to tippet. No problems here. Done this way in both salt and fresh.


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## Snakesurf (Jun 18, 2019)

I also use loop to loop on my tippet section and the flies present just fine. Only problem sometimes is debris in the water like grass, algae, etc; usually not enough to worry about. You need to stretch the loops a little before use and they will not hinge. Blood knot on first section of leader and nail / snail on fly line to leader with a FG on backing to fly line.


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## 4991 (Jun 21, 2012)

The only loop I use is from fly line to butt section. Then blood knots all the way down. If using a nail knot or Albright knot to attach fly line to butt section, I would not be a fan of having to cut back fly line each time I want to add a new butt section. It also takes longer to change out leaders. There are times when I want to increase or decrease the butt section depending on how long I need my overall leader to be. A case could likely be made that the nail knot or Albright knot is a little stronger of a connection (more so when tarpon fishing) but I haven’t noticed any integrity or hinging issues when using one loop in my leader system to attach fly line to butt section.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

For everyone still using blood knots to connect leader sections... You might want to check out the Slim Beauty knot... It runs rings around the blood knot in every category...


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I don't know anyone who ties large bite leader to class line with a blood knot. To large bite of course you use a Slim Beauty of the equivalent


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## 4991 (Jun 21, 2012)

Lots of people do. But with an improved blood knot.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

For my leaders sections and leader to tippet I tie blood knots. I use loop to loop to attach the fly line to the butt section of the leader and end of fly line to double bimini in the backing. For all fly lines above 8wt, I cut off the factory loops and make my loops ends in the fly line and secure with two to three uni knots and a drop of super glue. When I'm fishing the jetties or beach front, I've been surprised more than a few times with fish much larger than what I was expecting eating my fly. This is especially true with jacks. I'll be casting at a 2lb spanish mackeral and a 25lb jack will crash the party. So I tend to bombproof my connections.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm no expert, but from what I've heard (and I believe) is that loop to loop doesn't hinge when there is a proper transition of mass/diameter from one line to the next. Hinges occur when there is too drastic of a jump from one line size to the other and the energy isn't transferred properly.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

dhenderson said:


> Lots of people do. But with an improved blood knot.


Yeah, improved blood knot here. Caught plenty of big west coast tarpon on them. I tried to get the slim beauty into the lineup and I could never consistently tie them as well as the blood knot. I've tied hundreds of huffnagles so it's not a repition thing.


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## Toad (Dec 13, 2020)

lemaymiami said:


> For everyone still using blood knots to connect leader sections... You might want to check out the Slim Beauty knot... It runs rings around the blood knot in every category...


Capt Bob, how many turns do you make when tying the slim beauty with Mason hard nylon? I’ve been working on that knot, and I can get it to seat with four turns but it seems to like three better...


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

For a Slim Beauty connecting 40lb fluoro to 20lb Hard Mason without using a Bimini Twist to double the end of the Mason first... two turns for the heavy end (that figure eight most illustrations show) then seven turns for the tippet portion (just half a blood knot actually...). For heavier bite tippets (60, 80, 100 in fluoro) I do the Mason in a bimini first - then use a Hufnagle on the connection... instead of a bimini but would gladly use a Slim Beauty for any other heavy leader to line connection if it doesn't have the restrictions imposed on a class tippet that must meet IGFA rules to be acceptable for tournaments or record (world record) consideration... 

Braid changes things, while we're talking about line to leader connections. For all of my braid to leader connections I start with a bimini twist using 40 turns (instead of the 20 turns you'd use with mono lines) for the braid then do a uni to uni connection - but not the standard one... I use three turns for the heavy uni then nine turns for the doubled braid uni... This connection done properly will never fail and might just come close to the actual breaking strength of your braid (whatever its true breaking strength is, since most braids wildly over-test on a tensile strength meter...)


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## Toad (Dec 13, 2020)

lemaymiami said:


> but would gladly use a Slim Beauty for any other heavy leader to line connection if it doesn't have the restrictions imposed on a class tippet that must meet IGFA rules to be acceptable for tournaments or record (world record) consideration...


Thanks. Why does the Slim Beauty create issues with IGFA compliance? I was thinking that it would be good for IGFA leaders because it is so compact and therefore allows you to maximize the 12” of bite tippet.


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