# Solo Skiff with a mud motor



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Why?


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Because I'm curious what you give up with a mud motor. I catch reds where I'm on half mud half water in a kayak part of the time (Texas middle coast). Hunt ducks there as well. No experience with a mud motor but I see the Solo Skiff pics with the Swamp Runner kits and I wonder what it's like to run one.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

All mud motors are good for is trenching the flats on ANY hull.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Up in a marsh with mud bottom channels all through it. I do understand flats. I see prop grooves all over the Texas flats and those aren't mud motors.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

So if it's within your religious beliefs, what's it like driving a skiff like this with a mud motor like I see on the mfg web page. Slower? Pain in the rear? Running down a river to get to the marsh in deep water what happens? What questions should I be asking? Has anyone ever run one in a marsh or anywhere else or does no one have any experience?


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

I see scars on the TX flats all the time. I see the tunnel guys doing donuts to get up so they don't have to idle a distance for deep water. I see a TX lower coast where people used to run deep and fish shallow. Then tunnels came along and many began to run shallow and fish deep. Seems to me you want to help the skinny flats you would ban tunnels. Were I king I'd ban motors in as many definable shallow areas as possible.

Why would a mud motor run any deeper than a standard outboard through the flats? I've never seen one used anywhere. I'm curious what the story is.


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## FSUDrew99 (Feb 3, 2015)

I had a rig with a 35 hp mud buddy black death on it. It ran super shallow and the prop is all surface driven. It actually does LESS harm to the grass flats than a outboard.... that myth about mud motors messing up the flats is BS. Half my prop is out of the water the entire time on plane.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Come on man, you can't be serious. Just because your prop is on the surface does not mean your keel isn't dragging the ground,or that the turbulence from the prop isn't destroying the grass. It also does not mean you stop at the same depths as an outboard. Once you reach the point where an outboard is chewing up aquatic grass, the surface drive style motors can continue on without much trouble but this is a very narrow window of use. They are not limited to operation in depths where the water picks ups can function. In a way you are partly right in the fact that there is a narrow window of depths that allow a mud motor to move forward without harm while the outboard is shut down, but that is hardly justification to say surface drives do less damage. There are lots of things a mud motor can do that an outboard can not, one of the main capabilities being chewing through grass and another being turning a prop in shallow mud. Ergo, the name mud motor.

The thing with mud motors is they are far more capable. This means getting into, and out of, more trouble than an outboard. Since their introduction into the mainstream, I've watched owner after owner cut corners short, hop over partially covered islands, and reach areas with a motor that were previously only utilized by those of us willing to anchor our skiff and paddle. Narrow cuts are now 50 yards wide, shallow creeks are now wide enough and deep enough to idle my skiff though without trimming up, and new cuts have been opened up from people hopping over narrow strips of partially submerged grass at high tide.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Yep, there is a reason that TPWD and the Feds have a restriction in place in the NWR & WMA areas.............. The new rules state 25Hp or less and a prop of 9" dia or less in the NWR and WMA areas.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

I'd start with places like fence lake and ban motors entirely...as soon as I'm named king you will see it happen.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Jimrod,

Are all these bad things happening in the Louisiana marshes or wherever these things are most used?

Thanks to you and FSU for sincere educational responses.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Mark H said:


> Jimrod,
> 
> Are all these bad things happening in the Louisiana marshes or wherever these things are most used?
> 
> Thanks to you and FSU for sincere educational responses.


Its so much worse in Louisiana! and we don't want you as our king, Please stop


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Louisiana is losing the equivalent of 1 football field every hour or 16 square miles per year.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Louisiana is losing the equivalent of 1 football field every hour or 16 square miles per year.


This is mostly related to our goofy private property laws. The whole surface drive thing is a separate problem in and of itself. We are starting to see horse power restrictions in some areas and the banning of surface drive style motors. Longtail motors under 25hp can be used a few places where the big horsepower surface drives are banned. 

Just for the record, I own a 35hp surface drive. I think it's great, it just has no business in the delicate brackish water estuaries.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Talked to a guy who would know. He explained how awkward the mud motors are to use unless you are in the specific circumstances they were invented for and yes, it sounds like the mud motors are as bad as I think the tunnels are for the flats. So now I'm down to figuring out the shallowest floating fishing machine that's enjoyable to use with a standard outboard motor that poles and or paddles easily. Have a 77 Hewes with lots of sentimental value so I thought I'd go for something very shallow and minimal for a second boat/skiff/kayak. I do like fishing from a kayak but not so much the long distance paddling part.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Its so much worse in Louisiana! and we don't want you as our king, Please stop


GGW,

Please stop what? Asking you guys to educate me? Clearly the king comment was kidding. Is it difficult to sit down with that stick up there?


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Mark H said:


> GGW,
> 
> Please stop what? Asking you guys to educate me? Clearly the king comment was kidding. Is it difficult to sit down with that stick up there?


now that's funny right there!


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Well maybe you are all right after all.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mark H said:


> So if it's within your religious beliefs, what's it like driving a skiff like this with a mud motor like I see on the mfg web page. Slower? Pain in the rear? Running down a river to get to the marsh in deep water what happens? What questions should I be asking? Has anyone ever run one in a marsh or anywhere else or does no one have any experience?


Mudmotors are like a 4x4 for your boat. They can get you places you otherwise can't go with a regular outboard. They run best when in shallow water over gumbo mud. They bump over stumps and logs without damage. They are air cooled, so vegetation can't clog the water intake. They can jump small exposed logs and bars. When you need one and it is running properly, they are like riding a magic carpet through the marsh. 

OTOH, they really suck in sandy areas. They need at least a skim of water to work properly so the hull can break the suction of the mud. Although I've heard claims to the contrary, I've never seen one successfully run an truly exposed mudflat. They are heavy, loud, greasy, slow, and hard to handle when compared to a regular outboard. They tend to break frequently due to the brutal use.

In Louisiana, we chummed hyacinth, coontail and alligator weed with them all the time. You can barely kill that crap with chemicals, so I wouldn't sweat giving it a haircut. We didn't have grassflats anywhere I hunted or fished. I didn't notice mudmotors causing any more erosion than I already saw everywhere else. Natural subsidence, decreased sediment deposition, decreased freshwater flow and saltwater intrusion due to canals are the causes of coastal erosion. Boat wakes and hurricanes just make it a bit worse.

If used on a grassflat, a mudmotor would tear it up, but most of grassflat damage is done by regular outboards. Grassflats are very delicate. If you run across them with any motor, you are a jerk, so there is no need to throw stones. 

The no-motor zones are generally designed to limit hunting pressure within a given area. I dearly love no-motor zones and wish they'd make more because they limit access to vast areas of public land to those who are willing to work for their ducks. It is amazing how many people will not paddle or pole for their ducks. 

IMO, there is no reason to have a mudmotor on a fishing boat. Unless you hunt from the same boat like me, an outboard is a much, much better option. Even though I hunt, I'd trade my 20 hp mudmotor for a 4-stroke 10 hp long shaft at the first opportunity and just pole the difference.

Hope this helps.

Nate


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## FSUDrew99 (Feb 3, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> Come on man, you can't be serious. Just because your prop is on the surface does not mean your keel isn't dragging the ground,or that the turbulence from the prop isn't destroying the grass. It also does not mean you stop at the same depths as an outboard. Once you reach the point where an outboard is chewing up aquatic grass, the surface drive style motors can continue on without much trouble but this is a very narrow window of use. They are not limited to operation in depths where the water picks ups can function. In a way you are partly right in the fact that there is a narrow window of depths that allow a mud motor to move forward without harm while the outboard is shut down, but that is hardly justification to say surface drives do less damage. There are lots of things a mud motor can do that an outboard can not, one of the main capabilities being chewing through grass and another being turning a prop in shallow mud. Ergo, the name mud motor.
> 
> The thing with mud motors is they are far more capable. This means getting into, and out of, more trouble than an outboard. Since their introduction into the mainstream, I've watched owner after owner cut corners short, hop over partially covered islands, and reach areas with a motor that were previously only utilized by those of us willing to anchor our skiff and paddle. Narrow cuts are now 50 yards wide, shallow creeks are now wide enough and deep enough to idle my skiff though without trimming up, and new cuts have been opened up from people hopping over narrow strips of partially submerged grass at high tide.


People can definitely take advantage of the mud motor and run it through grass and all. Ive ran through plenty of vegetation on lakes hunting and what not. Most of my running while fishing was in open creeks and what not.

While running the prop IS more so out of the water than my outboard. With that being said the skeg is going to drag the bottom less than the outboard.

Moral of the story if you want to tear stuff up you can with a mud motor... or you can be a good guy and not tear everything up. It's all about the operator.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks for the education guys.

So is the Solo Skiff as skinny as it gets or...?


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Post up some pic's of that 77!


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## FSUDrew99 (Feb 3, 2015)

I will say this though.. go with a little 2 stroke outboard and call it a day. They are cheap if not cheaper than a mud motor and are going to be lighter as well as a lot quieter... Those mud motors are all air cooled as you know aka a lot louder and they are solid steel for the most part...


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mark H said:


> Thanks for the education guys.
> 
> So is the Solo Skiff as skinny as it gets or...?


Lord man! You might as well ask us the meaning of life, the universe and everything.

In its simplest form, draft is simply dictated by the total weight of the boat and its payload/the 2D surface area of the bottom of the boat. The lightest weigh spread across the biggest surface area will always draft the least. While Ambushes and Solos float shallow empty, once you get in the boat, your weight is concentrated across a smaller surface area. I would almost bet money that a stripped down 18'x6' jonboat would draft less with one person than a Solo, but once you have a bigger boat, you can bring more junk, buddies and beer and that uber-shallow draft becomes mythical.

So in the end, draft is a balancing act and there is no "shallow as it gets".

Additionally, we usually don't look at draft as the only criteria. Here, we often want poling ability. The 1872 jonboat mentioned above floats shallow, but poles like crap. It is also loud. It also rides rough in choppy water. Once you change the design to address these criteria, the draft suffers.

The question is how much weight do you need to carry? How much space do you have to store it? How shallow do you need to go? How smooth does it need to ride? How big of a motor do you want to pay for? What other criteria are important to you? 

A Solo with a 6 HP is a nice rig. You have to decide whether it will keep you happy.

Nate


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Great answer. Your post reminds me of the discussions started by the question, what's the best small airplane.

I usually don't fish alone but I'm not averse to buying two of them on one trailer. I think I don't need to carry much beyond fishing tackle, a couple of waters and a cell phone in a zip lock with my wallet. I do have the Bonefisher if I feel the need for payload or rough water capacity that day (Took it out far enough out of Melbourne to catch a kingfish two days after I picked it up...young and invulnerable). Or talk me out of it. What would be the recommended step one notch above the Solo?


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

Wow what a mess, the dude asked for specific advice and everyone gets into a stupid war about burning grass flats. You can burn a flat in ANY boat if you're a jerk. Mud motors have their place... try launching on a negative tide at the channel 4 ramp in Cedar Key and tell me how far you get without an airboat or mud motor. There's no grass to be burned for a mile until you get to the gulf, but then you can follow the deep cuts and stay off the flats entirely because you have a mud motor.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/2007-gladesmen-hull-trailer-5k.42018/#post-329596
Would this be the next step above the Solo Skiff?


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mark H said:


> http://www.microskiff.com/threads/2007-gladesmen-hull-trailer-5k.42018/#post-329596
> Would this be the next step above the Solo Skiff?


That might be two steps above a Solo. That is a good boat. Once again, you gotta decide if it would work for you.

Nate


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

WhiteDog70810 said:


> That might be two steps above a Solo. That is a good boat. Once again, you gotta decide if it would work for you.
> 
> Nate


Thanks! Is there a boat that is a step in between?


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Honestly, it seems a Solo Skiff might work really well for you based on your description of your needs.

I happen to be attracted to the 18' micros like the Gladesman and the bigger Shadowcast, but that doesn't necessarily help you. There are many good 14-16' options in between them and the Solo. For now, use the search tool to find and read threads about different hulls and visit the manufacturers' home pages. Decide what criteria are important to you and decide on your budget. Assume most of the options draft very little and focus on the other criteria. Write your priorities down and then start cross-referencing against the list of hulls you like. Once you have a top three list, we can help you better.

Check out Gheenoe, Pelican, Skimmer, IPB, Ankona, Saltmarsh, Beavertail, Spear, Skull Island, Towee, ECC and any other makers you stumble across.

Nate


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Mud motors work well for what they are designed for. 

Running one on a solo seems like a waste of a solo and a mud motor since they both fill two seperate niche's , but wouldn't combine well the have the perfect scenario. The weight of a mud motor and bulkiness of a mud motor would negatively effect the solos draft. 

Mud motors kinda are a pain to run.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

I think you are right. Knew nothing about mud motors beyond pictures and video till I started this thread.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

WhiteDog70810 said:


> Honestly, it seems a Solo Skiff might work really well for you based on your description of your needs.
> 
> I happen to be attracted to the 18' micros like the Gladesman and the bigger Shadowcast, but that doesn't necessarily help you. There are many good 14-16' options in between them and the Solo. For now, use the search tool to find and read threads about different hulls and visit the manufacturers' home pages. Decide what criteria are important to you and decide on your budget. Assume most of the options draft very little and focus on the other criteria. Write your priorities down and then start cross-referencing against the list of hulls you like. Once you have a top three list, we can help you better.
> 
> ...


A Solo Skiff with one vs a Gladesman with two-which one, if any, would fish or pole in shallower water?


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mark H said:


> A Solo Skiff with one vs a Gladesman with two-which one, if any, would fish or pole in shallower water?


Both will float very shallow. The Gladesman is more flexible to various scenarios because it is a faster 2 person hull. You need to wet test both. You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

Nate


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Maybe I should buy one of each.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Mark H said:


> Maybe I should buy one of each.


If that's the case, buy both of my skiffs. One has a mud motor, the other has an outboard. $22k for both.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

I mean a Solo Skiff and a Gladesman both with outboards.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Both will get into areas too shallow for fish. The only thing that will separate the two is the ability to fish two people with the gman.

The best way anyone has ever explained it to was draft should be #3 or #4 on your list when building a boat. It can float in spit but if it can't get you there then you're only limiting yourself by the novelty of sub 6 inch drafting skiffs, which are more rare than people are willing to admit. #1 should be, can the boat carry you and your friends/gear to the area you want to fish without being dangerous. #2 should be how much comfort are you will to sacrifice for draft. You can buy a boat that will fulfill the requirements of #1 but it may beat the fillings out of your head and soak you to the bone trying to get you there.

Speaking from experience, my first skiff was about as light and shallow drafting as they get but would beat the hell out of you on anything but the calmest of days. Full rain gear must be worn on choppy days and I had to back off to about 18mph to be able to safely handle the bow steer. Your gear was also soaked thanks to the open bulkhead design, something that a lot of the light weight and shallow drafting boats use to save on cap weight. All the things that made it light and shallow made it wet and uncomfortable for long runs. The thing that really stung was we almost never _needed_ to utilize the draft. The only times it was a good thing was when we were stuck. Oddly enough had we drawn a little more water we likely wouldn't have been so stupid to try and get to the areas where we got stuck. To make it even worse, we almost never spotted and landed fish in water less than about 8 inches.

TLDR; Any draft under 6 inches is more a novelty than a requirement. I'd buy a flat transom canoe and a 9.9 before I bought a Gladesmen or a Solo. Save yourself a ton of cash while retaining the ability to fish and travel in the same areas as the aforementioned "skiffs."


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Thank you. Very interesting. The only thing I could personally question would be fish catching depth. Here in the middle and lower TX coast I've caught many reds with their backs out of the water. I'd rather catch one of those than much of anything else. I very much hear you on the practicality of being able to get there. I do have a Bonefisher that can get a LOT of places but I find myself unable to get IN some of them once I get to them. I'm really thinking of kayak type fishing only where I have to paddle much less. Maybe I should be carrying a kayak in my Bonefisher? I can wade some of those places but the skinny places with deep mud bottoms hold fish but few fishermen.

I think I hear you saying a flat transom canoe is as good or better than a Gladesmen?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Mark H said:


> Here in the middle and lower TX coast I've caught many reds with their backs out of the water. I'd rather catch one of those than much of anything else.


Yeah but how deep is the water? You have to keep in mind that a fish that's 22 inches long will have his tail, and often times his back, out of the water while feeding in 7 inches of water. A 20 oz coke bottle is 7 and 3/4 inches tall, just to give yourself a point of reference. Once a redfish points it's eyes down towards the mud, it fills up that space very quickly. The reality of how shallow 7 inches really is gets lost in peoples imaginations, the same way an 18 inch chop often gets confused for three foot seas. 

I'm not going to pretend like I know what kind water you're fishing in but from my experience in Louisiana and Texas, we simply don't have those long expanses of shallow flats where you can utilize the sub 6-7 inch draft to get off a flat when the tide drops out from under you. 



Mark H said:


> I think I hear you saying a flat transom canoe is as good or better than a Gladesmen?


In my honest personal opinion, for Texas and Louisiana, yes I would take the canoe over a gman all day everyday. I could list dozens reasons. Now if I lived somewhere like the Everglades, I would opt for the faster gman. Louisiana lacks the miles upon miles of public marsh with creek systems and lakes that are protected like those in Everglades national park.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Never having fished anywhere in FL, the flats in deep south TX (Port Mansfield south to Mexico) are hundreds of square miles of water that is 4" to a little over a foot deep. For instance the white sands on the far east side behind the barrier island can only be reached by a boat with a tunnel. Far too long a distance to even think about trying to pole over there. Sight casting to reds and flounder on sugar white hard sand in 8" of gin clear water is something never forgotten once done. Just a little perspective on differences in ecosystems... I do not know if the HB Pro I ordered will be able to run that shallow, and prolly will not try it anyway. My soloskiff certainly will not. BUT there is lots of other area I fish where the TPS will be great and as usual there are the inevitable tradeoffs. The reason for the barge-like flat bottom tunnels in TX is so they can RUN in ultra shallow water. I remember one year I was fishing so much down there that I literally blew out my left knee from getting beat so much in my Majek scooter. Could hardly walk it hurt so bad. So yeah there are going to be consequences from choice of boat hull. When the southeasterlies pick up to around 40 mph a flat bottom tunnel will just pulverize your legs and knees. No way around it. BUT you can run all day long in 6" of water. I just want go a different direction with my fishing now with fly casting and fly tying etc.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

jm,

When their bellies are on the mud and you can still see them I don't want to be worried about scraping bottom.

The canoe over a kayak?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't know what to tell you man. I'm not even sure I fully understand your plan. As far as the draft is concerned, I tend to believe the fishing kayaks, solo skiffs, ECC Gladesmen, paddle boards, and canoes all draft about the same. The only reason I cast a vote for the Canoe is because it doesn't require a trailer and I could put an outboard on it if I wanted. Poling a kayak is a nightmare so those are right out for me. Paddling in shallow water is a hassle because you can't get the damn paddle blade in the water so I end up poling. If I'm going to pole I prefer the canoe over a paddle board, so I'm right back where I started. 

These are just my opinions. You may feel differently. You may not mind paddling a kayak in shallow water, but it's one of those things that drive me absolutely bonkers.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

commtrd said:


> Never having fished anywhere in FL, the flats in deep south TX (Port Mansfield south to Mexico) are hundreds of square miles of water that is 4" to a little over a foot deep. For instance the white sands on the far east side behind the barrier island can only be reached by a boat with a tunnel. Far too long a distance to even think about trying to pole over there. Sight casting to reds and flounder on sugar white hard sand in 8" of gin clear water is something never forgotten once done. Just a little perspective on differences in ecosystems... I do not know if the HB Pro I ordered will be able to run that shallow, and prolly will not try it anyway. My soloskiff certainly will not. BUT there is lots of other area I fish where the TPS will be great and as usual there are the inevitable tradeoffs. The reason for the barge-like flat bottom tunnels in TX is so they can RUN in ultra shallow water. I remember one year I was fishing so much down there that I literally blew out my left knee from getting beat so much in my Majek scooter. Could hardly walk it hurt so bad. So yeah there are going to be consequences from choice of boat hull. When the southeasterlies pick up to around 40 mph a flat bottom tunnel will just pulverize your legs and knees. No way around it. BUT you can run all day long in 6" of water. I just want go a different direction with my fishing now with fly casting and fly tying etc.


Yeah if you are going to wade when you get there a tunnel is hard to beat. I just hate the flats are constantly being buzzed by tunnels. The older I get the less long wades appeal to me and the soft mud never was wadable by me. This thread has just about convinced me not to buy anything. Apparently the only answer is a helicopter with two kayaks strapped to the floats.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

jm,

Yeah I'm not sure I understand my plan either. Though I claim no expertise what I really enjoy is seeing them in shallow water and casting to them. Yeah paddling a kayak in shallow water varies between paddling and poling with a paddle.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I've read this whole thread twice, and I'm still not sure I fully understand what you are trying to accomplish.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

See fish before I cast to them. That's all. A large marsh I can drive to colors my thinking but the thought of spending time on the lower TX coast as comm describes sounds like where I need to spend a lot of time after retirement.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mark H said:


> See fish before I cast to them. That's all. A large marsh I can drive to colors my thinking but the thought of spending time on the lower TX coast as comm describes sounds like where I need to spend a lot of time after retirement.


It sounds like you need a boat big enough to mothership a kayak to your spots then deploy the kayak and fish the area unless you want a poling skiff that drafts 6-7". I fish the same areas as you and a poling skiff or kayak are as good as it gets for stalking up on fish in the skinny stuff. It cracks me up how some folks think tunnel skiffs are the devil. Get rid of those loud airboats that burn the shorelines, run over the grass and flatten marsh grass and we will be in good shape.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I Fishhead said:


> Mark, the Solo Skiff will get you just about as skinny as you can get with an outboard motor. It also poles like a dream and paddles similar to a big barge fishing kayak. You can stand up and paddle or pole with no problem. The Solo Skiff is a hybrid skiff/ kayak. If you want a no nonsense boat to sight fish from the Solo Skiff is great. It's not designed to be a speed boat. It's designed to get you where you're going at reasonable clip and let you sight fish.
> 
> The Solo Skiff is really a motorized canoe killer. No swamping, stable and easy to tend the motor. If that's what you're looking for the Solo Skiff is unbeatable.


I saw an older gentleman pulling a Soloskiff out of the ramp about two weeks ago in Mark's neck of the woods and I had to go check it out because I had never seen one in person. It was the rotomolded model with a 3.5hp Tohatsu I believe. Pretty slick! I asked him how he likes it and he loves it other than his pull rope breaking while he was on the water and he had to pull the cowling and crank it with the backup rope. He looked to be in his 60's.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> It sounds like you need a boat big enough to mothership a kayak to your spots then deploy the kayak and fish the area unless you want a poling skiff that drafts 6-7". I fish the same areas as you and a poling skiff or kayak are as good as it gets for stalking up on fish in the skinny stuff.. It cracks me up how some folks think tunnel skiffs are the devil. Get rid of those loud airboats that burn the shorelines, run over the grass and flatten marsh grass and we will be in good shape.


Hmmm. I wonder how a kayak would fit in my Bonefisher. Aside from that, I'm thinking I'll buy a gman or a solo skiff and see how I like it. Not that expensive of an experiment. Of course none of that sounds like a decision does it?

Interesting thought on tunnels vs airboats. No doubt those of us who live above the water find the airboats noisy and annoying. I suspect an outboard prop is noisier and more annoying for the creatures who live below the water's surface but that's just a guess. As to damage, is the dragging of only a hull over shallow water as bad as a prop over shallow water? The guys I see running their tunnels over shallow water end up digging the bottom from time to time. Especially when the tunnel boat is back in a flat and wants to get up on plane.

Aside from grass flat damage, I'm thinking fish up on a shallow flat undisturbed by tunnel boats running the ranch shorelines south of Corpus for instance would be less spooky than they are now.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

I Fishhead said:


> Mark, the Solo Skiff will get you just about as skinny as you can get with an outboard motor. It also poles like a dream and paddles similar to a big barge fishing kayak. You can stand up and paddle or pole with no problem. The Solo Skiff is a hybrid skiff/ kayak. If you want a no nonsense boat to sight fish from the Solo Skiff is great. It's not designed to be a speed boat. It's designed to get you where you're going at reasonable clip and let you sight fish.
> 
> The Solo Skiff is really a motorized canoe killer. No swamping, stable and easy to tend the motor. If that's what you're looking for the Solo Skiff is unbeatable.


I'm leaning that way.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I saw an older gentleman pulling a Soloskiff out of the ramp about two weeks ago in Mark's neck of the woods and I had to go check it out because I had never seen one in person. It was the rotomolded model with a 3.5hp Tohatsu I believe. Pretty slick! I asked him how he likes it and he loves it other than his pull rope breaking while he was on the water and he had to pull the cowling and crank it with the backup rope. He looked to be in his 60's.


So, a young man.  I'm even younger, only 60, so I'm rebel enough to think I'll run it with a 6. Probably buy two of them with a 5 and a 6. Then I'll switch the cowls and give the friend with me the 5 with the 6 cowl just to mess with him explaining it's a matter of getting used to the boat to be able to get the best top speed.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mark H said:


> Hmmm. I wonder how a kayak would fit in my Bonefisher. Aside from that, I'm thinking I'll buy a gman or a solo skiff and see how I like it. Not that expensive of an experiment. Of course none of that sounds like a decision does it?
> 
> Interesting thought on tunnels vs airboats. No doubt those of us who live above the water find the airboats noisy and annoying. I suspect an outboard prop is noisier and more annoying for the creatures who live below the water's surface but that's just a guess. As to damage, is the dragging of only a hull over shallow water as bad as a prop over shallow water? The guys I see running their tunnels over shallow water end up digging the bottom from time to time. Especially when the tunnel boat is back in a flat and wants to get up on plane.
> 
> Aside from grass flat damage, I'm thinking fish up on a shallow flat undisturbed by tunnel boats running the ranch shorelines south of Corpus for instance would be less spooky than they are now.


http://www.2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=2098554


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks. Looks like what I want and then some.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

There is no way my solo skiff will RUN shallow as any of my scooters did. Anyway no matter. The object is to get skinny on the pole NOT burn the flats. Which way too many boats do and it is real irritating. Stopped carrying a gun on my boat due to an episode one day in Mud Bight.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Seems like if you are going to carry a gun it should be in a zip lock bag on your person in case you wade. Curious an incident would compel you to not carry? The opposite would seem more to be expected.


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

What? Are we going to start firing 'em off at every guy who shakes his fist out on the water?

If I have a confrontation out on the water (I cannot actually see this happening), I would much rather be armed with a can of beer and a sense of humor; rather than fatal force. Insane.

Where is this thread going?


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Well you twisted the rheostat all the way around instantly with that straw man argument. Of course non confrontational methods are best. Hopefully they always work. As to a weapon, some feel it's a societal obligation, for those who are capable, to carry everywhere it's legal. After reading an essay saying this, I went ahead and took the class. It's like a seat belt. I don't ever expect to need it, but I wear it. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. If you are going to carry, carry all the time it's legal. If you aren't, don't. If you just carry part of the time and God forbid, had to use it, you, law enforcement and the DA may have some very uncomfortable discussions about intent. Probably never need a weapon or my seat belt. Both will be on me when available. It's easy and I view it as good citizenship and good sense.

As to my previous post, I would have guessed a scary incident would have caused someone to carry rather than the other way around. Just seems curious. For that matter, here in Texas in duck season a whole bunch of the flats boats you see are carrying a LOT of firepower. Haven't heard of any gun fights over that.


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

Mark H said:


> Well you twisted the rheostat all the way around instantly with that straw man argument. Of course non confrontational methods are best. Hopefully they always work. As to a weapon, some feel it's a societal obligation, for those who are capable, to carry everywhere it's legal. After reading an essay saying this, I went ahead and took the class. It's like a seat belt. I don't ever expect to need it, but I wear it. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. If you are going to carry, carry all the time it's legal. If you aren't, don't. If you just carry part of the time and God forbid, had to use it, you, law enforcement and the DA may have some very uncomfortable discussions about intent. Probably never need a weapon or my seat belt. Both will be on me when available. It's easy and I view it as good citizenship and good sense.
> 
> As to my previous post, I would have guessed a scary incident would have caused someone to carry rather than the other way around. Just seems curious. For that matter, here in Texas in duck season a whole bunch of the flats boats you see are carrying a LOT of firepower. Haven't heard of any gun fights over that.


Fair enough. Firearms was not the original topic and there was no point in me fueling a fire, so to get back on track, let's recap what's been said.
Soloskiff's Get Skinny, but it would be counter productive and a royal pain to drive one with a mudmotor.
The difference in operating and poling draft between a Kayak, Soloskiff and Gladesmen is negligible.
TX bays are rough (Can be downright dangerous - I know I live Here), and unless your honey holes are very close to the ramp and accessible via protected water, a solo skiff will be very limited in range.
You can pack very little on a soloskiff, however its easily handled and packed in a truck.

That seems to be about the jist of it, beyond that its a matter of personal preference.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Can't argue. I can see where the motor might encourage you to bite off more than the skiff can chew as opposed to a kayak. In terms of rough water capacity, can you speak to the amount of the advantage of the Gladesmen?


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

I have a Gladesmen and I run it around Freeport/West Galveston. I have not really put it through serious chop yet (I'm talking rolling white-caps that are so prevalent through our winter months). I have dealt with small chop, and the G-man is definitely capable - however, its important that the driver is in decent shape. Its a "Sporty" ride, and handling the thing in chop requires finding the right body position so you can brace yourself against any quick bow steer. 
I don't believe there is such thing as a "dry ride" in any boat when fishing TX open waters November-April. Sure, you will have some nice calm days, but most of them are windy, cold, and full of sweet saltwater spray. 
I love the nastiness of winter fishing - its like suiting up for battle 'round here.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks


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## POCtied (Oct 19, 2016)

Whiskey Angler said:


> I have a Gladesmen and I run it around Freeport/West Galveston. I have not really put it through serious chop yet (I'm talking rolling white-caps that are so prevalent through our winter months). I have dealt with small chop, and the G-man is definitely capable - however, its important that the driver is in decent shape. Its a "Sporty" ride, and handling the thing in chop requires finding the right body position so you can brace yourself against any quick bow steer.
> I don't believe there is such thing as a "dry ride" in any boat when fishing TX open waters November-April. Sure, you will have some nice calm days, but most of them are windy, cold, and full of sweet saltwater spray.
> I love the nastiness of winter fishing - its like suiting up for battle 'round here.


Well put, I get wet in our 24' SS mod v on what I would call a calm day this past Saturday in POC just coming in to Saluria, when that wind kicks up to 30 it's inevitable even on a mild chop.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

As usual a lot of discretion is required running any vessel solo skiff or otherwise. My solo was intended to be used only in protected waters and always a good weather eye out; and used like that is a great tool for ultra shallow marsh type fishing where the smallest micro-skiffs will also work great. Any boat can and will be capable of getting one soaked in the wrong weather and sea conditions. I once dis-regarded a nasty cold front approaching one day in Baffin Bay because the trout were just going berserk and waited too long. Paid the price getting back to the dock almost capsized my little flat bottom scooter and that was trying to run shallow as possible against the shoreline behind the rocks. My fault... Running crew boats in the gulf got caught out in a nasty low pressure system and darn near sank the boat a 110' crew boat but that one was the oil co. fault they made us run out to deliver a grocery box. Ultimately the captain is responsible whether it is a solo skiff or an ocean liner?


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Whiskey Angler said:


> What? Are we going to start firing 'em off at every guy who shakes his fist out on the water?
> 
> If I have a confrontation out on the water (I cannot actually see this happening), I would much rather be armed with a can of beer and a sense of humor; rather than fatal force. Insane.
> 
> Where is this thread going?












Here, Here is where this thread is going.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Flush!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

My big fat flats boat goes in 8-9" and am not fond of getting stuck so I am careful where I go. When I head home I can run in 3' chop. I guess I could strap a yack to my PP platform but I don't fish in Texas
Rodandgun has it right those skinny boats will get you wet


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Certainly the ability to drag a micro off of a mistake instead of waiting for high tide is an advantage.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mark H said:


> Certainly the ability to drag a micro off of a mistake instead of waiting for high tide is an advantage.


Very true.

Nate


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Whiskey Angler said:


> What? Are we going to start firing 'em off at every guy who shakes his fist out on the water?
> 
> If I have a confrontation out on the water (I cannot actually see this happening), I would much rather be armed with a can of beer and a sense of humor; rather than fatal force. Insane.
> 
> Where is this thread going?


Man we always carry while fishing. You never know when you'll run into some Somali pirates on the flats


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## krash (Jan 9, 2007)

This thread has gone way off course... never seen a Solo with a mud motor, but looking at the transom cutout with trailing sponson like stern and that bar across the rear I don't see how you'd get a mud motor trailing prop & shaft into the water without removing that bar ... and once you do there sure would not be much turning radius.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

http://www.soloskiff.com/gallery/
This is why I asked but I've been educated since then.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mark H said:


> http://www.soloskiff.com/gallery/
> This is why I asked but I've been educated since then.


That is a tiny mud motor!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I have run mud motors while in Alaska. They do allow you to get skinny by pushing down on the tiller to bring the prop out or shallow in the water. Conversely if you leave the tiller level or let it drift up the prop will dig in
IMHO a Solo is just a fancy surf board and has no business mounting a mud motor on it


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

After reading all of this....just wondered if you've considered or looked at a Gheenoe. They have four or five different models and one of them might fit into your "need" slot. There is a TKFr who lives in Rockport that might give you a ride. He has the 16 which is the biggest version I believe. richg99


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Thought about them. Maybe I should keep them in mind.


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

Gheenoes often get short shrift on this site. I never quite knew why. Try CustomGheenoe for more info. I live in Houston half of each year. I run a 1652 G3 because my summer fishing places in TN really don't lend themselves to a microskiff.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

I read their fans and I'm inclined to believe them. I wasn't going to say this because it's subjective and shallow but I'll be honest. I just don't think they look good. Subjective I know but I need a boat I find to be good looking. But I'm going to take another hard look at them since you said so.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

How well would a Gladesmen tow behind a larger boat?


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mark H said:


> I just don't think they look good.


that has always been my problem with Gheenoes also.

Nate


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

While you could probably tow a Gladesman, I think it is too big to conveniently haul around with a mothership... ...unless you are towing it behind your houseboat, which would be freaking AWESOME. Once I retire for the second or third time I might live like that. For now, I must just dream.

If you have to cross water that makes you nervous in a Gladesman, find another launch that avoids big water or find a boat that is more appropriate for your area.

Nate


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Well if we go down the land cut for a few days it would make sense to tow it behind the boat that carries all our stuff down there, would it not? But how fast would it tow safely?


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

WhiteDog70810 said:


> While you could probably tow a Gladesman, I think it is too big to conveniently haul around with a mothership... ...unless you are towing it behind your houseboat, which would be freaking AWESOME.
> Nate


Now you may have just cost me a bunch of money.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

View attachment 3891


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## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

WhiteDog70810 said:


> While you could probably tow a Gladesman, I think it is too big to conveniently haul around with a mothership... ...unless you are towing it behind your houseboat, which would be freaking AWESOME. Once I retire for the second or third time I might live like that. For now, I must just dream.
> 
> If you have to cross water that makes you nervous in a Gladesman, find another launch that avoids big water or find a boat that is more appropriate for your area.
> 
> Nate



We have customers using Gladesmen's & Glides as fishing tenders for their mothership operations. No issues pulling them.


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

At what speed?


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mark H said:


> At what speed?


That depends on the relative size of the towing motor. If towing boat is big and powerful enough to safely cross big water with a wide safety margin, you should be able to tow a Gladesman at planing speeds relatively easily because it is so light. You'll lose some top end speed obviously. I'd want some type of tow harness rigged. You don't want to just tie it off to a stern cleat in my experience, although I am sure folks have done it.

Nate


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## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

Glide and Gladesmen don't need a "towing eye" like we put in our larger models. However, we suggest ample scope of line from tender to main boat. And 2/3rd's the way place a thick chain of 10-20' so when main boat comes off cruise the chain sinks and slows the tender drastically to a stop.
Hope this helps?
Kevin


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## Mark H (Nov 22, 2016)

Excellent! Thanks guys.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

East Cape said:


> Glide and Gladesmen don't need a "towing eye" like we put in our larger models. However, we suggest ample scope of line from tender to main boat. And 2/3rd's the way place a thick chain of 10-20' so when main boat comes off cruise the chain sinks and slows the tender drastically to a stop.
> Hope this helps?
> Kevin


I have never heard the suggestion of adding the chain before. That is very helpful. My issue with towing any light hull, usually pirogues or Gheenoes, was the towed boat running forward in front of the wake after we slowed and then surfing out and broaching in front of the wake as the tow rope tightened when we accelerated again. I was just the dumb kid who was responsible for keeping the tow rope (that was usually tied to a cleat) out of the prop. I had no executive authority

Nate


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