# light weight trolling batteries?



## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

golf cart batteries- lighter,stronger, more $ too, can find used ones for a deal
check into it ,there are a lot of them on the market,,spread the word 
-anytide


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

This will be the answer but the price Holy CoW !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery


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## Yoreese (Oct 15, 2009)

Odyssey.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> Odyssey.


Careful with the odyssey smaller batteries, some of them lack any real capacity for trolling motor use or any other type of long drain. 

Check their specs out thoroughly before buying. Compare with other brands and consider the cost difference when dealing with such a small battery. Odysseys are great, but expensive.


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## swaddict (Dec 19, 2009)

> > Odyssey.
> 
> 
> Careful with the odyssey smaller batteries, some of them lack any real capacity for trolling motor use or any other type of long drain.
> ...


Agree with Tom and Maurice


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

I bought a kit that makes it possible to set the trolling motor on the high speed setting and control the speed with a "pulse width modulator" I have only used it a few times. It performs the same as a Verimax that is built into Minn-Kota and other trolling motors. It seems to increase low power setting endurance by as much as 400%. I wasn't going to write it up until I had more time on it, but thought I should mention it now as it requires a lot less power from the battery. It can be assembled as a 12 volt or 24 volt control.

Best regards,
Frank_S


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

Frank S.... More info or a LINK, please??? thanks Rich


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I thought they had a Heavier one ?


http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=MSC1C


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## tnrwayne (Dec 14, 2009)

lifeline u-1 size or odyssey PC1200
www.tnrbattery.com


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## skinnywater3 (Feb 8, 2009)

I have a odyssey blue top and its awesome


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> I have a odyssey blue top and its awesome


I think you mean an *Optima* blue top. Very different from an Odyssey, which is orange


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

Hi Everyone,

I just saw this post again and thought I should post the model I have It is the MXA067 and is a 30 amp motor controller. Here it is assembled.

http://store.qkits.com/category.cfm/DCMOTOR

Scroll down to find it.

Frank_S


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## FlatCat (Aug 18, 2007)

Optima's and Odessey's are nice, but still lead acid and heavy. I'm building an electric bike and there is some impressive new batt technology out there (Like the lithium polymer) 2000+ charge cycles and waaay smaller/lighter than sla.
I'm guessing they will start to be offered soon for super high end skiff trolling applications.


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

I am also involved with electric ( and other ) model airplanes. 

Lithium Polymers ( LIPOs) are used daily..however..they are expensive and have serious problems if over charged. Since they have been known to explode...a lot of guys charge them in metal ammo cans. Hardly anyone will take a chance and charge them while the battery is inside of their ariplanes. Chargers are high tech and cost a lot, too. 

They have additional expensive problems if drawn down below their base voltage...like..they can become worthless quickly.  

A123 batteries (....SOME 18 volt rechargeable battery drill packs ...) are the next step up ( or down, depending on your viewpoint). Heavier than LIPOs..they produce a lower voltage...but...can stand under/over voltage issues better.... and can be charged in 1/4 the time of LIPOs.  

Considering how many of us ( including me ) abuse trolling motor batteries...I am not holding my breath for new battery technology to quickly solve the weight/power/price issues.  Rich


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## FlatCat (Aug 18, 2007)

Seems like the "lifo" chemistry is dominating bikes....my understanding is that it is a more stable version of lipo. The cells from A123 systems are lifo with some nano gimmick. I'm using them for my project.
I'm thinking that a sub 20lb, 24 v boat pack is no more extreme than other boat technology already out there.


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

Yep....LIFO is the technical name for A123 batteries.  As I understood it, the A123 people have a patent or lock on that type of battery here in the US.  LIFO is the chemical name..A123 is the trade name. 

A year or so ago...Black and Decker came out with some hobby sized drills; a flashlight and other smallish tools.

The tools used two cell (7.2 volts) VPX LIFO/A123 batteries. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UME3JC/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?ie=UTF8&cloe_id=8adc488c-db4c-45ab-b2d5-445dd69f5b9e&attrMsgId=LPWidget-A2&pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000UMLDX6&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0TXEFWBPTE3YHCH7MTN1

The marketing failed to produce many sales. B & D discontinued the line.  When everything was being closed out..I bought two of the drills. They last a LONG time and can be recharged in fifteen minutes or so. I also bought a number of the batteries.  

Later, I was able to buy some of the flashlights, without batteries, for two bucks each.  I cannibalized the flashlight cases and used four of them to make a battery pack. It is now used to turn the electric starter for my fuel airplanes. 

Light; strong; lasts a long time... 14.4 volts.  

I don't think it would last very long with the amp-draw on my trolling motor, though. They are only 1100 milliamps...  Maybe I'll try it some rainy afternoon.  regards, Rich


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## FlatCat (Aug 18, 2007)

I think those are lIion, but Dewalts 36v pack has LIFOs. Lots of people are hacking them for the cells...they have huge amperage output capabilities.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Mr. Houston,

It is ironic that you mention that you use them in your r/c airplanes. Three weeks ago I had a friend tell me he had his r/c jet go up in flames. Every see a grown man cry like a 3 year old. Thousands of $'s up in smoke.

http://www.towerhobbies.com/help/ama_lipo/index.html (see below)

EMERGENCY SAFETY ALERT 
Lithium Battery Fires
Lithium batteries are becoming very popular for powering the control and power systems in our models. This is true because of their very high energy density (amp-hrs/wt. ratio) compared to NiCd’s or other batteries. With high energy comes increased risk in their use. The principal risk is FIRE which can result from improper charging, crash damage, or shorting the batteries. All vendors of these batteries warn their customers of this danger and recommend extreme caution in their use. In spite of this, many fires have occurred as a result of the use of Lithium Polymer batteries resulting in loss of models, automobiles, and other property. Homes and garages and workshops have also burned. A lithium battery fire is very hot (several thousand degrees) and is an excellent initiator for ancillary (resulting) fires. Fire occurs due to contact between Lithium and oxygen in the air. It does not need any other source of ignition, or fuel to start, and burns almost explosively. These batteries must be used in a manner that precludes ancillary fire. The following is recommended: 
Store, and charge, in a fireproof container; never in your model. 

Charge in a protected area devoid of combustibles. Always stand watch over the charging process. Never leave the charging process unattended. 

In the event of damage from crashes, etc, carefully remove to a safe place for at least a half hour to observe. Physically damaged cells could erupt into flame and after sufficient time to ensure safety, should be discarded in accordance with the instructions which came with the batteries. Never attempt to charge a cell with physical damage, regardless of how slight. 

Always use chargers designed for the specific purpose, preferably having a fixed setting for your particular pack. Many fires occur in using selectable/adjustable chargers improperly set. Never attempt to charge Lithium cells with a charger which is not specifically designed for charging Lithium cells. Never use chargers designed for Nickel Cadmium batteries. 

Use charging systems that monitor and control the charge state of each cell in the pack. Unbalanced cells can lead to disaster if it permits overcharge of a single cell in the pack. If the batteries show any sign of swelling, discontinue charging and remove them to a safe place outside as they could erupt into flames. 

Most important: NEVER PLUG IN A BATTERY AND LEAVE IT TO CHARGE UNATTENDED OVERNIGHT. Serious fires have resulted from this practice. 

Do not attempt to make your own battery packs from individual cells. 
These batteries CANNOT be handled and charged casually such as has been the practice for years with other types of batteries. The consequence of this practice can be very serious resulting in major property damage and/or personal harm. 
Safety Committee
Academy of Model Aeronautics
5161 E Memorial Drive
Muncie, IN 47302 

and

http://www.rctoys.com/pr/2009/05/19...and-discharge-lithium-polymer-lipo-batteries/

How To Safely Use, Charge, and Discharge Lithium Polymer (Lipo) Batteries
Lithium polymer batteries are great for RC aircraft, but they have an explosive chemistry that must be treated with caution.

Prevent this from happening to your batteries by following these tips:

1) Store lithium polymer batteries in a flame proof LipoSack while charging. - Charging your lithium polymer batteries in a flame proof LipoSack can contain a fire should it occur. It could mean the difference between a minor clean up and the loss of your house or car. Also make sure that the storage area is well ventilated. 
2) Read the manual – The importance of reading your battery and chargers manual cannot be emphasized enough. The battery manual will state the proper charging rates and times. 
3) Use common sense – Don’t charge batteries unsupervised. Even when you do everything right, incidents can occur. Also, do not charge lithium polymer batteries in your car. A flame out can be disasterous if it occurs inside a vehicle. 
4) Use the right battery charger – Charging a lipo battery with a charger designed for other batteries will cause problems, and will probably result in a fire. 
5) Charge lithium polymer batteries on a fire proof surface – It’s really important to charge lithium polymer batteries on a flame proof surface such as concrete. In the event of a fire, a fire proof charging surface will stop it from spreading, or at least slow it down significantly. 
6) Keep a fire extinguisher, or bucket of sand near the charging area – If a fire does occur, you don’t want to be running around looking for something to put it out with. Water will not help put out a lipo fire. Being a conductor, it will cause a short circuit and could even make the fire worse. 
7) Don’t charge lithium polymer batteries near flammable substances – Lithium polymer batteries are flammable enough as it is. Don’t make the problem worse by storing flammable substances near charging batteries. 
8) Check lithium polymer batteries for swelling prior to charging and each use – A puffed battery is unstable, and can be in danger of exploding. If you see a puffed battery, immediately disconnect it from the charger or aircraft and put it in a bucket of water. Dissolve a few tablespoons of salt in the water to aid conductivity, and leave the battery in the bucked for about 4 days. The salt water depletes any power remaining in the battery by creating a short, and it can’t catch fire while underwater. After the four days are up, take the battery out and cut off the connectors (which may come in handy for other projects). You can then dispose of the battery in the trash. The battery no longer contains toxic metals, won’t harm the environment, and by using the salt water you’ve guaranteed that it won’t catch fire. This should be done as soon as you see a puffed battery. You can’t salvage a puffed battery, the best you can do is to dispose of it safely. 
9) Never charge a lithium polymer battery in a model – If you charge a lipo battery in your RC airplane or helicopter, you are risking the total loss of your model. Only charge lithium polymer batteries on a flame proof surface, in a LipoSack. 
10) Make sure the charging leads are connected properly – Connecting positive to negative and negative to positive can cause a major fire. 
11) Don’t overcharge batteries – By their very chemistry, lithium polymer batteries cannot be discharged to a potential of less than 3 volts without damage. For the same reason, don’t charge them to over 4.2 volts. This means that you have to land your rc aircraft before the motors stop turning. Some aircraft come equipped with a voltage cut-off, others do not. If you don’t have a voltage cut-off, then land as soon as you sense the propeller or rotors slowing down. 
12) Double check that the charger settings are correct – Lithium polymer battery chargers require you to set the battery configuration. Ensure that this configuration matches the battery you’re charging, or else your lipo could get overcharged and explode. Some chargers automatically sense the battery configuration, but make sure that the setting is correct regardless. They have been known to be wrong on occasion. 
13) Balance lipo batteries – Lithium polymer batteries have balance connectors, designed to make sure that each cell in the pack has the same charge. If this isn’t the case, some cells can become overcharged and explode. 
14) Never let the battery leads touch – If the battery terminals touch each other, the battery will short circuit and, in most cases, be destroyed. If this happens and you get a puffed battery, dispose of it by following tip 9 above. 
15) Don’t ever store / charge lithium polymer batteries in your car – Unless you hate your car. Batteries can and do explode, and if this happens inside a vehicle the result is usually catastrophic. On a hot day, temperatures can rise inside the car and cause stored packs to rupture. 
16) In the event of a crash, remove the battery and supervise it for at least 4 hours – A crashed plane’s battery can appear fine, but can have an internal short circuit. This short circuit can cause an explosion, even hours after the crash occurred. A LipoSack is a great place to keep a battery that’s been in a crash. If enough time elapses and nothing happens, then your battery is probably fine. If you see puffing, dispose of it immediately following the instructions in tip 9 above.


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

Ducknut......thanks for "filling in the blanks" with that wealth of information. Yes, LIPOs can be dangerous....far more so than any other battery I've ever touched.

As far as your friend, a JET can be even more dangerous since the fuel those things use adds another whole layer of potential problems. 

As I understand it, every time a guy flies a jet fueled power r/c plane, he has to get a special permit; he has to have a fire extinguisher next to him at all times...and he has to have a fat wallet to cover the initial and continuing costs. 

Not for me. When I crash one of my small fuel or electric planes, I'm out a hundred bucks or less. Sometimes, I can patch them back up for nothing. 

Not a hobby for a perfectionist, that is for sure. Ha ha Thanks very much for sharing. Rich


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## FlatCat (Aug 18, 2007)

Lipo and Lifo are similiar in performance, but waay different when it comes to stability, ease of charging, etc.

Dewalt / Black and Decker would not put them out for consumers if they were unstable.

I may just wire up 4 dewalt packs and see how long it runs the Minn Kota. I'm guessing about 2 hours of continuous wot. 2 packs will push a bike/200lb rider about 14mi @ 18mph with very little pedaling.

If you see a Banshee on fire my Dewalt / stability theory was flawed.

RC jets are cool. They fly them from a field in Orlando near 429/Keene road.


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## richg99 (Nov 28, 2009)

Flatcat..if you have access to four packs...that is great. I know r/c guys have been buying them on EBAY and then canniblizing them for access to the A123/LIFO's inside. 

What is their milliamp rating?

Please keep us posted. Rich


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## FlatCat (Aug 18, 2007)

They are rated at 750 watts, i think max output is 20 amp hours so 750k milliamps per pack?

I am getting 4 for the bike ($98 ea), but keeping the pack intact and using a modified base from charger to hold the pack/create a connection. If i try on the boat will do the same thing.


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