# I got the Mercury 60R



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Pretty bitchin


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Your prop blew out on the turn. Go see Tran Sport for a cav plate and Jack Foreman for a prop.


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## FSUDrew99 (Feb 3, 2015)

It looks badass though!


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

That's the way to break her in! Looks sweet


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## KCTim (Feb 7, 2017)

Who took that picture?


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

TimR said:


> Who took that picture?


I did. LOL Left the push pole at the house.( amateur move)
On another note, the skiff did well in extremely shallow water. Made it a few hundred yards across a shallow firm mud flat. I don't know how deep it was but 4" would be my best guess, because I didn't stop. LOL Video is on my Facebook page.


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## Monty (Jan 10, 2018)

WARNING --- This is not to be done by you folks at home. This was a professional driver on a closed course.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Have not aired it out yet, but 5500rpms was seeing 33mph on GPS.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Question. Do I have to wipe my feet before boarding ?


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## Liam Nissan (May 21, 2020)

Need a prop with cupping. Will prevent cavitation without the need for a cav plate. IMO, if you need a cav plate, motor is setup wrong or prop is wrong


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## Liam Nissan (May 21, 2020)

Liam Nissan said:


> Need a prop with cupping. Will prevent cavitation without the need for a cav plate. IMO, if you need a cav plate, motor is setup wrong or prop is wrong


Also... congrats on the rig!!!


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Liam Nissan said:


> Need a prop with cupping. Will prevent cavitation without the need for a cav plate. IMO, if you need a cav plate, motor is setup wrong or prop is wrong


100% agree. Going to have one made. the Spitfire has zero cup.


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## Todd Thibodeaux (Mar 31, 2020)

scissorhands said:


> I got my HB professional tunnel with the 60R propped with the Mercury spitfire xp 14p (its not the correct prop IMHO) this past weekend. I ran it for about 3 hours (its cold here in Texas). I know a lot of people were wondering about the performance, What questions do you have? Hopefully be able to answer some of them. Jacked up on 6 water pressure was a solid 18-20 psi. I just need to learn how to drive it, we we running in about 6" soft mud bottom in a back pond and needed to turn around, started turning and rear end got light and lost momentum. She still floated.
> View attachment 162260


Get a Jack Foreman prop (3blade and water scoops) then call Transnoats and get there cavitation plate. You’ll probably be able to lift your motor up too the bottom holes. I did those modifications on my maverick tunnel and it made a huge improvement. Great looking boat even muddy.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

running a skinny flat.


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## ShallowMinded84 (Nov 18, 2020)

scissorhands said:


> running a skinny flat.


Ahhh skiff porn!🤤


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Congrats on the new engine. I thought about one but went in another direction. Will still be waiting several months but my current Merc is running fine. 

The top end will increase once it's fully broke in. I'm turning 6000 at WOT with EFI 60 and 4-blade Trophy Sport prop. 

Which model of Bob's jack plate do you have? Standard 4" Ultra Light?


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Zika said:


> Congrats on the new engine. I thought about one but went in another direction. Will still be waiting several months but my current Merc is running fine.
> 
> The top end will increase once it's fully broke in. I'm turning 6000 at WOT with EFI 60 and 4-blade Trophy Sport prop.
> 
> Which model of Bob's jack plate do you have? Standard 4" Ultra Light?


I believe its the ultra light 4"


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Rob, that motor has a pretty big gear case ratio similar to the Suzuki. You can swing a pretty big prop. For example, the prop on my Zuke is big enough that I had to grind the steering anti-torque tab off to clear the prop blades. Cup added will help give the prop some bite when running at high jack settings, especially in a tunnel where the water is a little more turbulent then water coming off the back of a non-tunnel boat. The bigger blades will give better hole shot and also help stay hooked up when running at high jack settings. I'm running at full jack up on my X all the time except when motoring around the boat dock. I'm getting really good shallow water performance with my Foreman prop (12.5"D - 14p 3 blade) so your tunnel Pro should really be able to do silly shallow once dialed in.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

@jay.bush1434 we need to go run around and take pictures. I've a camera too.


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## TX_Brad (Jun 8, 2018)

scissorhands said:


> @jay.bush1434 we need to go run around and take pictures. I've a camera too.


Tomorrow? We'll be out


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

TX_Brad said:


> Tomorrow? We'll be out


I might be able to make it out late afternoon


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)




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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

Were you able to spin it out?


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

It's quiet.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

RJTaylor said:


> Were you able to spin it out?


as in spin out and swap ends or spin it up off the bottom?


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

Off the bottom.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Surffshr said:


> Your prop blew out on the turn. Go see Tran Sport for a cav plate and Jack Foreman for a prop.


If I am running that shallow I likely have a little bit of negative motor trim and I can grab some throttle in the turn and lift the stern around in the "slide".

Of course...if you blow out then all bets are off. 

Get a plate and the right prop on there and you'll be able to run around in skinny water like you're in a go cart. Its fun...


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

scissorhands said:


> running a skinny flat.


The look on someone's face the first time they experience that is always fun to see...


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

RJTaylor said:


> Off the bottom.


With the current prop it takes a bit of finesse ( struggle ), it will do it but it isn't pretty. Putting a new prop on this week and will give it another go.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

crboggs said:


> The look on someone's face the first time they experience that is always fun to see...


Its priceless 😄


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

The current prop is Mercurys Spitfire xp 13.5" 14P. Not the right prop for me.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

scissorhands said:


> Its priceless 😄


The best advice I've ever gotten running a tunnel skiff was not to be afraid to use a little negative trim.

Your mind may scream at you that you're putting your skeg lower, but if you are running the right prop you'll actually get lift in your stern that will help you run skinnier overall.

I didn't believe it until I got in the jump seat and let someone more experience demonstrate it...it will allow you to blip the throttle when needed to literally lift your stern over shoals or whatever when you are crossing them. Play with it and you'll see...


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## JT McStravic (Jun 5, 2018)

Any chance you have a start up video? Haha I know it won’t sound like a 450R but I love the way those racing motors sound


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

JT McStravic said:


> Any chance you have a start up video? Haha I know it won’t sound like a 450R but I love the way those racing motors sound


Its actually really quiet. We got pictures and video of @scissorhands Pro and he got some run footage of my EVOx. We rafted up and talked for a while and he took off to put more time on the boat. Start up was quiet, similar to most new 4 strokes. Nevertheless, it is a sweet sled.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

JT McStravic said:


> Any chance you have a start up video? Haha I know it won’t sound like a 450R but I love the way those racing motors sound


I’ll get one for you tomorrow.


jay.bush1434 said:


> Its actually really quiet. We got pictures and video of @scissorhands Pro and he got some run footage of my EVOx. We rafted up and talked for a while and he took off to put more time on the boat. Start up was quiet, similar to most new 4 strokes. Nevertheless, it is a sweet sled.


Thanks Jay. Glad we finally got them and can concentrate on fishing now,


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

A lot quieter than my 60 Zuke......nice.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Got the foreman prop put on today, gets out of the hole pretty good. Its cold so I didn’t stay out for very long, but 
I couldn’t resist trying it.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Get a “compression” plate, you will be happy you did.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

CKEAT said:


> Get a “compression” plate, you will be happy you did.


Don't think I'll need it
I'll post a video in a bit


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

I need to get a better angle, maybe when its warmer. Half tab and 6 on the JP


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

scissorhands said:


> Don't think I'll need it


With everything you are investing to jump up and run shallow...don't skimp on the plate.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

RJTaylor said:


> Off the bottom.


New prop, yes! Sitting on the bottom in mud I can get it up.


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

scissorhands said:


> New prop, yes! Sitting on the bottom in mud I can get it up.


Wait til u hit 60


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

At least your skeg paint stayed on. I took my newly painted skeg to the Chattahoochee river. Now I have to paint it again


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

permitchaser said:


> At least your skeg paint stayed on. I took my newly painted skeg to the Chattahoochee river. Now I have to paint it again


Nah man...just proudly own your inclusion into the #bareskegs crew.


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

Paint on a skeg? no way.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Matts said:


> Paint on a skeg? no way.


It’ll be gone before long. Let’s play follow the leader, I’ll make a believer out of you.


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

scissorhands said:


> It’ll be gone before long. Let’s play follow the leader, I’ll make a believer out of you.


Believer in HB or your ability to find shallow water?


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Matts said:


> Believer in HB or your ability to find shallow water?


Believer in both. I like my skiff and I like all the Chittums I've been in (both 2 and 12 degree). I now what both skiffs will do, they are pretty similar in performance in the right hands.


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

Hope both work out for you. HB are beautiful and I’d love to see what a properly set up Pro will do in TX. Almost bought one.....


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Sitting on the bottom and getting up with Foreman prop


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

scissorhands said:


> Sitting on the bottom and getting up with Foreman prop


Damn Rob, leave a little bit of cool for the rest of us new skiff owners! Seriously shallow water performance, nice.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

crboggs said:


> Nah man...just proudly own your inclusion into the #bareskegs crew.


I painted mine four years ago when I bought it and the skeg still has all the paint. I have something that will help you guys.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Why the mercury versus the Yamaha 70?


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Jason M said:


> Why the mercury versus the Yamaha 70?


15" shaft v. 20" on the Yamaha


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## TroutNreds12 (Jan 4, 2016)

Obviously your not set up for speed but what kinda top speed with it set up this way? That is a bad ass setup!!!


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

scissorhands said:


> Sitting on the bottom and getting up with Foreman prop


_chuckle_

People ask if the Foreman props are worth the hype until they experience them...

Obviously you don't want to do that consistently...but it IS nice to know that you have the option in a pinch eh?


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I painted mine four years ago when I bought it and the skeg still has all the paint.


You're not riding her hard enough...


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

scissorhands said:


> 15" shaft v. 20" on the Yamaha


Ahh, I really enjoy reading about the mods that you guys in Texas go through. I'm glad I don't have to go through it though, lol. 

I guess the guys in the IRL face some of this though but seems to a lesser extent.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

crboggs said:


> You're not riding her hard enough...


Not it, his skeg is above the bottom of hull when jacked up. Like, way up there!😉


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

TroutNreds12 said:


> Obviously your not set up for speed but what kinda top speed with it set up this way? That is a bad ass setup!!!


32mph.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

scissorhands said:


> 32mph.


If you need to run faster than that to catch fish there’s something wrong! You can’t troll a fly that fast, I’ve tried.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you need to run faster than that to catch fish there’s something wrong! You can’t troll a fly that fast, I’ve tried.


Eh, wahoo like it when you troll on plane!😉


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you need to run faster than that to catch fish there’s something wrong! You can’t troll a fly that fast, I’ve tried.


I’m a 25-26 mph kinda guy.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

scissorhands said:


> I’m a 25-26 mph kinda guy.


Yup...jacked up, trimmed out, and WOT I'm normally somewhere between 30-33mph depending on wind direction.

But I normally back off a bit for comfort (prop torque on the tiller) and cruise in the upper 20s.


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Can’t contribute anything meaningful but sure did enjoy the videos!


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Liam Nissan said:


> Need a prop with cupping. Will prevent cavitation without the need for a cav plate. IMO, if you need a cav plate, motor is setup wrong or prop is wrong


Not necessarily true in all cases....

A cav plate goes above the prop to prevent wash out. It does not wrap the entire engine like a compression plate.

A compression plate, like the ShawWing, wraps the entire lower unit. It helps with wash out, but also channels water downward to surround the prop and water pick ups.

I've had both on my B2 - it came with a cav plate and was pretty much useless, imo. It did nothing for increasing water pressure or allowing me to get up skinny. I took it off and did a trip - I could tell no difference.

The compression plate, on the other hand, has been killer. I was able to raise my engine to the highest bolt and can run with jack plate at 5.5 while keeping water pressure (it drops at 6). It has changed where I fish and how skinny I can get up.

But, I currently don't have a tunnel. Tunnels channel water more effectively to the engine, so one could argue if a compression plate is useful.

However, I had a boat that was a tunnel and I also had a compression plate. I could run so skinny in areas that if I stopped, I would probably still be there trying to get the boat out. . The combination of a tunnel and compression allowed me to run the prop nearly above the water line. Awesome, but can get you into some trouble if not careful.

The heavy cup will help with bite getting up shallow, and help prevent wash out, but it depends on how high you are jacked up. Even a heavy cup has limitations with a tunnel - there is a point where there isn't enough water surrounding even the heavy cup and it will blow out. This is where a compression plate would help eliminate that issue.

Also, I run a Jack Foreman 3 blade prop with heavy cup on my B2.


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## Liam Nissan (May 21, 2020)

coconutgroves said:


> Not necessarily true in all cases....
> 
> A cav plate goes above the prop to prevent wash out. It does not wrap the entire engine like a compression plate.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with this, I guess my point is that it seems that way too often, people slap a cav plate or ShawWing on an improperly set up motor as a band-aid fix. Doing so will prevent cavitation and washing out, yes, and allow a skiff to run stupid skinny, but at the expense of proper performance


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Liam Nissan said:


> I agree 100% with this, I guess my point is that it seems that way too often, people slap a cav plate or ShawWing on an improperly set up motor as a band-aid fix. Doing so will prevent cavitation and washing out, yes, and allow a skiff to run stupid skinny, but at the expense of proper performance


When you say performance, what aspect are you referring to? 

Here in Texas we compromise heavy cup with compression plates so we can get to the fish, in and out without tearing up the habitat and not wasting too much time (different value to all of us) getting in and out of locations. If you run back to some places far enough and realize you need to move. It may mean poling a very long way to get out or tearing up equipment / habitat or both.

So for me it’s three components, picking up water, getting good compression and finding a properly cupped prop while sacrificing some top end speed. 

Oh and proper tunnel design, of course.


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## Liam Nissan (May 21, 2020)

CKEAT said:


> When you say performance, what aspect are you referring to?
> 
> Here in Texas we compromise heavy cup with compression plates so we can get to the fish, in and out without tearing up the habitat and not wasting too much time (different value to all of us) getting in and out of locations. If you run back to some places far enough and realize you need to move. It may mean poling a very long way to get out or tearing up equipment / habitat or both.
> 
> ...


Sounds like yours isn’t a band-aid. Y’all Texas guys need em to run crazy skinny, but like you said you sacrifice top end. But there’s many variables to setting up a propeller, such as blade size, diameter, shape, count, cupping, pitch, and so on. People seem to use a generic prop and throw on a ShawWing to prevent cavitation when they really need a different prop. 

That’s when performance issues seem to arise, like top end, sliding in turns, porpoising and such.

Of course though, there are uses, like yours, where when combined with proper prop and engine mounting that a ShawWing is very important to proper running.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Liam Nissan said:


> Sounds like yours isn’t a band-aid. Y’all Texas guys need em to run crazy skinny, but like you said you sacrifice top end. But there’s many variables to setting up a propeller, such as blade size, diameter, shape, count, cupping, pitch, and so on. People seem to use a generic prop and throw on a ShawWing to prevent cavitation when they really need a different prop.
> 
> That’s when performance issues seem to arise, like top end, sliding in turns, porpoising and such.
> 
> Of course though, there are uses, like yours, where when combined with proper prop and engine mounting that a ShawWing is very important to proper running.


Is 2-3 mph really a huge sacrifice for not having to pussy foot a hole shot or run with the prop up without blowing out?


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## Liam Nissan (May 21, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Is 2-3 mph really a huge sacrifice for not having to pussy foot a hole shot or run with the prop up without blowing out?





Smackdaddy53 said:


> Is 2-3 mph really a huge sacrifice for not having to pussy foot a hole shot or run with the prop up without blowing out?


Well with the right prop, you won’t blow out, and you’ll retain those 2-3 mph so I’d say yes, except for the instances where both are needed. 

But you guys still aren’t getting my damn point. 

With the exception of extreme circumstances, there should be absolutely zero cavitation problems, there should be good hole shot and also good top end.

That all comes down to rigging.

UNLESS, very shallow running is your top priority

Where I come from, you don’t dare burn a flat. The shallowest I run is rarely less than a foot.

I have my motor mounted high, I have a jackplate and can run it almost 5” up before cavitation. Still achieve 30+ mph with a 40hp, hole shot puts you in your seat, doesn’t slide in turns and so on.

With my old prop, it slid, porpoised, hole shot was 2-3 business days and top end was about the same.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Liam Nissan said:


> Well with the right prop, you won’t blow out, and you’ll retain those 2-3 mph so I’d say yes, except for the instances where both are needed.
> 
> But you guys still aren’t getting my damn point.
> 
> ...


I know what goes on where you come from and I know a bit about props, compression plates, boats and how to run them. 
What’s your view on trim tabs, jack plates and tunnels?


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## Liam Nissan (May 21, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I know what goes on where you come from and I know a bit about props, compression plates, boats and how to run them.
> What’s your view on trim tabs, jack plates and tunnels?


That’s kinda what I’m getting at, with tabs down a little, jackplate up, I’ll can run as skinny as I’d ever want to. I have run in 8” before. 

With that being said, I understand that some people need to run in less. You guys in TX blow my mind haha! But that’s when it seems that in combination with a tunnel, the right prop and a jackplate, a cav or compression plate is an essential piece to the puzzle. 

I also don’t want it to come across that I’m saying the plates are useless or won’t fix a cavitation issue. 

It’s that I think in [most] scenarios there shouldn’t be cavitation in the first place.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

I’ll chime in with hopes for clarification too. I feel my skiff is set-up pretty damn good with out a cavatation plate, I would need someone to ride with me to tell me if there was room for improvement, or things I might not have noticed yet while running.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Liam Nissan said:


> Sounds like yours isn’t a band-aid. Y’all Texas guys need em to run crazy skinny, but like you said you sacrifice top end. But there’s many variables to setting up a propeller, such as blade size, diameter, shape, count, cupping, pitch, and so on. People seem to use a generic prop and throw on a ShawWing to prevent cavitation when they really need a different prop.
> 
> That’s when performance issues seem to arise, like top end, sliding in turns, porpoising and such.
> 
> Of course though, there are uses, like yours, where when combined with proper prop and engine mounting that a ShawWing is very important to proper running.


Sliding in turns is where skiff design comes in. I personally don’t care about running 33-34 vs 36-38. Even if I were to move to Florida, I would still want that capability.

Also, it will help with grass getting destroyed which I have seen personally with guides in Florida. IMO


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I went out and ran my boat before and after raising it to the highest bolt on the jack plate and got video. I also spent time talking in person with Kevin at Stiffy about his ShawWing - he was so excited and convinced I'd love it that he offered to install it with me right then and there. But, I needed to cut the underside of the plate to pull off the diode and access one of the bolts on the lower unit.

For a non tunnel, I would definitely recommend a compression plate (again, not a cav plate, those are smaller and don't do the same job as a compression plate).

One other thing to consider is setback of the engine. This doesn't apply to all boats, but primarily does to non-tunnels.

Congrats @scissorhands on the new rig - if I am ever in your area, I'll ping you - maybe we can hook up for a beer and maybe fish together.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

coconutgroves said:


> I went out and ran my boat before and after raising it to the highest bolt on the jack plate and got video. I also spent time talking in person with Kevin at Stiffy about his ShawWing - he was so excited and convinced I'd love it that he offered to install it with me right then and there. But, I needed to cut the underside of the plate to pull off the diode and access one of the bolts on the lower unit.
> 
> For a non tunnel, I would definitely recommend a compression plate (again, not a cav plate, those are smaller and don't do the same job as a compression plate).
> 
> ...


 Definitely give me a ring if you are in the area.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Liam Nissan said:


> UNLESS, very shallow running is your top priority
> 
> Where I come from, you don’t dare burn a flat. The shallowest I run is rarely less than a foot.


Yeah...I need to be able to get over shoals and bars that can be in the neighborhood of 3-4"...and I can spend all day in less than 12" of water during the winter.

We cherish the grass we have. Luckily the grass only really grows in areas that stay wet even on the lowest of low tides. (Learning to read that detail can help you find fish...)

So we try to jump up and run over the sandy / muddy portions. It all comes down to knowing your local water and where you can run safely without damaging your boat or the bottom.


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## Sonny Palma Sola (Jun 26, 2020)

My obserations of y'all's conversation is: 1) I doubt that a skiff coming out of HB's shop isn't set up to run properly, no matter where you live. 2) Over my last 5-6 skiffs I've tried most of what you suggest to run skinny. 3) No offense to Scissorhands, but what I saw him do getting his skiff up was no way to protect our bay bottoms. Again, no offense, I've done that many times, however as I am now in "Senior" staus I know that in order for the following generations to have a place to fish in the future we need to find deeper water to get up and run. Take a look at google maps and see the "kicker trails" where you fish. 4) I have a HB's Eldora tiller being built as we speak, cap to hopefully go on this week, but we all should strive to pilot our skiffs in an environmentally friendly manner and not try to run in water where we shouldn't. Get over how shallow your skiff will get up or run and learn the channels to your to spots as crboggs suggests. "Just sayin" as they say!


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

There is no doubt getting up on mud bottom isn’t a good ruler to gauge hole shot. That needs to be done on hard sand bottom to see if a tunnel boat is rigger properly. No offense at all her either, just lessons learned.


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## BPancamo (Sep 27, 2013)

His tunnel pro is rigged with a jp and short-shaft Mercury. With a foreman prop to boot. I’m not sure it can be rigged anymore aggressive. Maybe w a Shaw Wing, but c’mon dude.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Sonny Palma Sola said:


> My obserations of y'all's conversation is: 1) I doubt that a skiff coming out of HB's shop isn't set up to run properly, no matter where you live. 2) Over my last 5-6 skiffs I've tried most of what you suggest to run skinny. 3) No offense to Scissorhands, but what I saw him do getting his skiff up was no way to protect our bay bottoms. Again, no offense, I've done that many times, however as I am now in "Senior" staus I know that in order for the following generations to have a place to fish in the future we need to find deeper water to get up and run. Take a look at google maps and see the "kicker trails" where you fish. 4) I have a HB's Eldora tiller being built as we speak, cap to hopefully go on this week, but we all should strive to pilot our skiffs in an environmentally friendly manner and not try to run in water where we shouldn't. Get over how shallow your skiff will get up or run and learn the channels to your to spots as crboggs suggests. "Just sayin" as they say!


I recently moved from TX to FL. Understand your comments about finding the channel etc., especially protecting the turtle grass, which isn’t present much in TX— it’s mostly widgeon grass... The terrain for large stretches of the TX Coast is extremely shallow and doesn’t provide close access to channels as you describe. Probably a result of the geography that TX bays run a narrow path along the entire coast between barrier islands and & the mainland, and deep water is channeled through the ICW. Knowing and testing a skiff’s shallow water capability is important to safely exploring the Texas Coast.

Agree w/ @CKEAT that testing on sand is a better gauge. I previously ran a 178 w/o tunnel & Yamaha 70 2 stroke... we could blow out of just about anywhere with a Jack Foreman prop with mud & 9 or 10 inches water .... not the way I liked to run, though.

@scissorhands- your skiff is beautiful and I love the sound of that Mercury 60R... strong & torquey


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Sonny Palma Sola said:


> Get over how shallow your skiff will get up or run and learn the channels to your to spots as crboggs suggests.


I'm neither an expert nor a saint. I'm just willing to pole a bit deeper if it lets me get up cleanly...


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Mostly where I fish is mud/clay bottom, I would never try and jump up in a grassy area (we dont have many left in the upper coast). Is jumping up in mud right or wrong? I don’t know, but I only did that for test purposes and only do that when needed. In Texas we get some mean negative tides in the winter, if you can’t or don’t have the guts to run shallow back lakes you wont be sight fishing where the fish are. The lake I was in was super shallow that day and the only way to get out was to jump up. No offense taken, just how we have to do it sometimes in Texas and I like to know how my skiff will perform in those scenarios.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Sonny Palma Sola said:


> My obserations of y'all's conversation is: 1) I doubt that a skiff coming out of HB's shop isn't set up to run properly, no matter where you live. 2) Over my last 5-6 skiffs I've tried most of what you suggest to run skinny. 3) No offense to Scissorhands, but what I saw him do getting his skiff up was no way to protect our bay bottoms. Again, no offense, I've done that many times, however as I am now in "Senior" staus I know that in order for the following generations to have a place to fish in the future we need to find deeper water to get up and run. Take a look at google maps and see the "kicker trails" where you fish. 4) I have a HB's Eldora tiller being built as we speak, cap to hopefully go on this week, but we all should strive to pilot our skiffs in an environmentally friendly manner and not try to run in water where we shouldn't. *Get over how shallow your skiff will get up or run and learn the channels to your to spots* as crboggs suggests. "Just sayin" as they say!


I know where @scissorhands made that video and let me tell you its all mud bottom and is mud bottom year round. There's no sea grass and no channel in or out, just shallow gooey bottom. So other than leaving a big muddy streak in the water and sanding some paint off the skeg there was no damage done. Also, where we fish on the upper Texas coast, we don't have a lot of channels that provide easy access to the flats and back lake marshes. The bottom is usually gooey mud that doesn't allow for easy poling when each push sinks the pole a foot or more into the bottom. If you were to try and pole from where he was to "deep" water, you'd be at it for miles and I'm not talking about an easy down wind drift either. We have a very different environment than the typical flat fishing in Florida. He wanted to see just what his boat was capable of doing, chose a safe spot and made a quick video because a bunch of folks have been asking him questions about the boat and motor performance.


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## fishnogeek (Feb 6, 2019)

I'll second (third?) what Jay and Rob said with first-hand evidence: those back bays here are mostly deep mucky mud with no grass, very little shell, and no channels. They can get stupid skinny, particularly at this time of year, and our tidal movements are frequently small enough that you can't count on getting more water even if you wait it out. Given that viz here should usually be measured in nanometers, it's often tough to tell if you're running in 4" or 14" of water. When those factors combine, knowing how skinny you can safely run and how to bounce back up if you accidentally drop somewhere murky are important things to know.

Related, I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen a skeg here that wasn't naked. Can't think of one.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

fishnogeek said:


> Related, I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen a skeg here that wasn't naked. Can't think of one.


Mine is worse than naked! It is bare, exposed bones and missing a femur! If I jack up to much the stern of the boat gyrates slowing left and right with the prop. A rebuild is on the list. That is thanks to running across sand. But my Jack Foreman heavy cup pop is a honey badger - I've ran across shell (accidentally of course, who does it on purpose?) and it looked like a salad shooter from the rear of my boat. Not one gash on the prop.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> But my Jack Foreman heavy cup pop is a honey badger - I've ran across shell (accidentally of course, who does it on purpose?) and it looked like a salad shooter from the rear of my boat.


That's funny. When we see the inevitable Yankee's in Whalers or ******* bait soakers in their tower boats churning up the bottom around here, I often say they are "chopping salad"...


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> Not necessarily true in all cases....
> 
> A cav plate goes above the prop to prevent wash out. It does not wrap the entire engine like a compression plate.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. I have the Shaw Wing on my non-tunnel LM and the engine and jack plate are mounted as high as possible. Not much engine in the water and compression plate holds water. seems to make a big difference.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Matts said:


> Totally agree. I have the Shaw Wing on my non-tunnel LM and the engine and jack plate are mounted as high as possible. Not much engine in the water and compression plate holds water. seems to make a big difference.


Personally, I think this is a must here in Texas without a tunnel. Honestly, I would consider not running a tunnel and going with this approach. It provides better displacement to float a bit higher. Chittum says it is about a 2" trade off while on plane between tunnel and non-tunnel.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Stephen has his tunnel he picked up in November and he had that set up without before. He could give a pretty good review of the two pretty soon I would think. Thought he does have the low water pick up now and that is a game changer.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Though not thought


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

if you can jump on plane in very shallow water in Homosassa or Crystal River I'll be impressed. I can. bring a spare prop.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

devrep said:


> if you can jump on plane in very shallow water in Homosassa or Crystal River I'll be impressed. I can. bring a spare prop.


I think you need some time in the laguna madre to learn what shallow water work actually is!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

CKEAT said:


> Stephen has his tunnel he picked up in November and he had that set up without before. He could give a pretty good review of the two pretty soon I would think. Thought he does have the low water pick up now and that is a game changer.


Stephen’s skiff in my video is a vented tunnel. They don’t draft 2” more on plane or off plane than a non tunnel. Internet misconceptions are born this way. That tunnel is not very big and I’ve done average sized tunnel calculations on here showing about 1/8” added draft (and the Chittum tunnel is smaller than what mine are based on) if the skiff is sitting level which these hulls do well while poling. I think people get ideas in their head without actually experiencing first hand then other people believe what they claim. My Maverick HPX-Tunnel will run over hard sand while hull is dragging bottom so I really don’t think whaf a skiff drafts on plane could be a deal breaker on a much lighter hull like a Chittum or other light hull.
A non vented tunnel can suck down the stern on take off but you can cancel that out by tabbing down. I can perform a CLEAN hole shot in 6-8” my skiff with the outboard trimmed level and jacked all the way up with the prop above the bottom of the hull. This is where a XXX cup three blade and good compression plate shine other than jacked way up and turning without blowing out.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Only one way to get out. The Mercury is a strong motor.


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Stephen’s skiff in my video is a vented tunnel. They don’t draft 2” more on plane or off plane than a non tunnel. Internet misconceptions are born this way. That tunnel is not very big and I’ve done average sized tunnel calculations on here showing about 1/8” added draft (and the Chittum tunnel is smaller than what mine are based on) if the skiff is sitting level which these hulls do well while poling. I think people get ideas in their head without actually experiencing first hand then other people believe what they claim. My Maverick HPX-Tunnel will run over hard sand while hull is dragging bottom so I really don’t think whaf a skiff drafts on plane could be a deal breaker on a much lighter hull like a Chittum or other light hull.
> A non vented tunnel can suck down the stern on take off but you can cancel that out by tabbing down. I can perform a CLEAN hole shot in 6-8” my skiff with the outboard trimmed level and jacked all the way up with the prop above the bottom of the hull. This is where a XXX cup three blade and good compression plate shine other than jacked way up and turning without blowing out.


I’ve seen one video of you and Ford in the new tunnel demo skiff with your low water pickups and there are very few skiffs, if any, that will do what his is capable of doing. I really wonder how much more shallow it will run than my nine tunnel Laguna Madre II?


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## cg_wilson2003 (Feb 19, 2019)

Scissorhands,

If you would can you take a pic of your boat on the trailer with the motor jacked up looking directly at it if that makes sense? Want to see the height you are getting with the 15in shaft. 

Currently have a HB Waterman tunnel with a mercury 60hp, love the motor but need to get more height. The new 60R with the 15 in shaft might be my answer as everything is mounted as high as I can go.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

cg_wilson2003 said:


> Scissorhands,
> 
> If you would can you take a pic of your boat on the trailer with the motor jacked up looking directly at it if that makes sense? Want to see the height you are getting with the 15in shaft.
> 
> Currently have a HB Waterman tunnel with a mercury 60hp, love the motor but need to get more height. The new 60R with the 15 in shaft might be my answer as everything is mounted as high as I can go.


will do, I still need to go up about 2 holes( 2") but I will get you a pic. My boats on a lift so I will do the best I can


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

cg_wilson2003 said:


> Scissorhands,
> 
> If you would can you take a pic of your boat on the trailer with the motor jacked up looking directly at it if that makes sense? Want to see the height you are getting with the 15in shaft.
> 
> Currently have a HB Waterman tunnel with a mercury 60hp, love the motor but need to get more height. The new 60R with the 15 in shaft might be my answer as everything is mounted as high as I can go.



Curious how many inches it is from the TOP of your tunnel to TOP of your transom is. It should be 15" or 20".


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sublime said:


> Curious how many inches it is from the TOP of your tunnel to TOP of your transom is. It should be 15" or 20".


I never understood why a boat builder would not use this formula. It’s pretty basic but I see boats built all the time that do not follow this guideline and have all kinds of issues afterwards.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

@cg_wilson2003 here is the best I could do. Jackplate is on 6 and motor is mounted on middle hole ( can still go up 2 holes= 2 inches When I get the time) first photo is a square as I could make it.


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## cg_wilson2003 (Feb 19, 2019)

Thanks for taking the pic. That is about where mine is as high up as it can go. 

I did add a cavitation plate to mine a few months ago and it really made a difference when running back into back lakes where it is real twisty. Honestly did not think it would make that much of a difference as I feel like my boat is very dialed in.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

cg_wilson2003 said:


> Thanks for taking the pic. That is about where mine is as high up as it can go.
> 
> I did add a cavitation plate to mine a few months ago and it really made a difference when running back into back lakes where it is real twisty. Honestly did not think it would make that much of a difference as I feel like my boat is very dialed in.


A compression plate dials it in even more.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Just a few updates. Raised the motor 2" and put a stuffy shaw wing on.


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## flynut (Sep 7, 2015)

Have you had a chance to run her? I bet this thing runs stupid skinny!!!


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## cg_wilson2003 (Feb 19, 2019)

Nice, thanks for the added pics. Same question as flynut, how does it run?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Before you know it you’ll bite the bullet and spring for the low water pickup and raise that engine a few more inches if the platform is tall enough.


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## flynut (Sep 7, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Before you know it you’ll bite the bullet and spring for the low water pickup and raise that engine a few more inches if the platform is tall enough.


Your low water pick up is badass Mack!!!


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

cg_wilson2003 said:


> Nice, thanks for the added pics. Same question as flynut, how does it run?


Runs great, Cavatation plate helps hold water pressure on sharp turns. Still getting great water pressure anywhere between 12-18 depending on speed. Raising the motor up was the greatest improvement of them all.


Smackdaddy53 said:


> Before you know it you’ll bite the bullet and spring for the low water pickup and raise that engine a few more inches if the platform is tall enough.


I believe its tall enough. I haven't ruled it out, its a possibility.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

scissorhands said:


> Runs great, Cavatation plate helps hold water pressure on sharp turns. Still getting great water pressure anywhere between 12-18 depending on speed. Raising the motor up was the greatest improvement of them all.
> 
> I believe its tall enough. I haven't ruled it out, its a possibility.


What is the measurement between the inside of each trim tab to the inside of each sponson?


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