# What are y'all's thoughts on rods shorter than 9 feet?



## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

What advantages are gained and what compromises are made in the 7 to 9 weight range going from 9' to 7'11"? Also, are the same concepts true for going shorter in lighter weights, say 2-5?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Good subject and as you guessed it, I have thoughts on that one! 

The 7'11" sticks were recently design to fall into the new bass tourneys regs and still compete directly with conventional gear in those tourneys. That is the reason for that specific length. So some mfgs are trying to get into that game by coming out with sticks that conform to those regs. TFO is one of them and they make a stick called a Hawg Leg in a 7/8 and also a 9/10. I've thrown both of them and they are nothing like any other rod that TFO builds. As a matter of fact, if they built that particular blank in a 9ft, I would be done! "Stick a fork in me" kind of done! Those rods are amazing and made me giggle every time I shot the blam things out! And for $149, It is almost hard to say "no!" I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet, but thinking about it. The 7/8 is stout and tight and would make a great little creek and ditch rod, as well as fishing up in tight mangrove creeks and tight coves. Great rod for Glades canal bass fishing and Miami canal peacock bass. Also great for snook dock light fishing. Don't let the size fool ya, they will punch it out and will easily hit 60 and up to 80ft with surprising energy.

http://www.basspro.com/Temple-Fork-Outfitters-Hawgleg-Fly-Rods/product/1201040501122/

The 9/10 is a stick for sure. Again, mangrove creeks and tight little rivers for large snook and juvi tarpon up to 50lbs no problems with plenty of back bone but loads quick and tight. Probably a good for for tight cover bridge fishing and dock pilings for bigger snook and juvi poons. Maybe the answer for those LA big thug reds up close and personal need the boat and in tight quarters.

That's the only 7"11" rods I've demo'd.

I've owned several 8'2" - 8'10" rods and love fishing that size rods as well. Again, easier throwing rod with less hang ups for fishing light qtrs like I mentioned above. One of my favorite dock light rod was a 8'6". Even getting lighter, I had a great little Cortland rod that was a 8"2" 5wt that was my bream bug and light duty bass rod. That rod was a hoot to throw and play out fish with.

Many, many trout rods will go down below 8ft and even just under 7ft. If you've fished enough streams up north, especially tight ones with heavy cover, you'll appreciate the shorter rods in the 7ft range. You don't need the longer rods for that sort of fly fishing, only to help you reach and mend.

9ft rods work good down here since most of our ff'ing we do is in big open water and have plenty of room for back cast and to shoot lines. Typically some distance is needed as well between you and the fish, hence the reason for the longer stick to help with distance. Plus wade fishing helps with a longer rod to keep the fly line up off the water better when your up to your knees in water. One of my favorite wading rods in the past was an old IMX 7wt 9'6", which made a beautiful flats wading rod. You'll also find some of the salmon and steel headers with single handed rods up to 10ft.

But today with running skiffs and the casting platforms up even higher, you have plenty of reach to keep the line up off the water. So a shorter rod is a good option for those guys who go deep in the sticks to chase fish where things are tight and theirs not much room to work with. Be careful though since not many people raise their hands for one and is harder to resale them if you find you don't really needed it as often as you though you did.

I've down size my quiver lately and gotten rid of all my odd sized rods, but will one day, go get a short stick for the very reasons I've stated above. I'm currently working on a skiff just for that purpose and when the time comes, I'll make that decision then. 

Ted Haas


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

I've been waiting for someone to chime in on this and I agree with what Backwater says. 

But, there's a reason why all the manufacturers have settled on 9' for graphite rods, it's that they're the best compromise between length and the amount of effort needed to swing them in the the mid range lengths.When you shorten the lever you have to move it faster and over a loger stroke to get the same results. There are exceptions though at the ends of the spectrum, light rods loose their crispness at 9' and heavy ones get hard to swing, so an 8'6" 4wt feels better to me than a 9', and an 8'6" 11wt also. My own tendency is to to fish the longest rod that's comfortable, ie effort and crispness, I like a fast rod and my most used rod in the salt is an 8wt 9'6" because it will aerialize line really fast compared to a shorter road and I do most of my fishing on foot, but I would not try to fish a ten at that length. I also fish an old 8'8" from my boat for bass, throwing under ther the bushes and into gaps in the weeds, horses for courses as my UK friend says.

There are some people that like these short rods, Mark Sedotti who's an NE striper guru teamed up with Loomis to make some 7'6" rods called Shortstix, he's an unbelievable caster who is famous for his "sayonara sling" which is a backcast delivery and his distances are off the chart. 

The only one who can answer though is the guy casting the rod, what feels good to him?
JC


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

I have a good friend who has the Sage Bass II series that is under 8' (I've fished a few full days with it), and it is great for what it was built for - throwing chunky bass bugs and working tight to shorelines. We do a lot of river excursions and drift kayaks on moving rivers while fly casting and working shorelines, and the short rod helps make deadly accurate short casts so you can work every nook and cranny of pieces of structure, and the stout rod sections allow you to pick the line and cinder block of a bass fly up quickly and recast at another target.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

pt448 said:


> What advantages are gained and what compromises are made in the 7 to 9 weight range going from 9' to 7'11"? Also, are the same concepts true for going shorter in lighter weights, say 2-5?


I say, one of the advantages is accuracy and I believe with a 7'6" rod you gain an extra 20ft for your cast.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Good subject and as you guessed it, I have thoughts on that one!
> 
> The 7'11" sticks were recently design to fall into the new bass tourneys regs and still compete directly with conventional gear in those tourneys. That is the reason for that specific length. So some mfgs are trying to get into that game by coming out with sticks that conform to those regs. TFO is one of them and they make a stick called a Hawg Leg in a 7/8 and also a 9/10. I've thrown both of them and they are nothing like any other rod that TFO builds. As a matter of fact, if they built that particular blank in a 9ft, I would be done! "Stick a fork in me" kind of done! Those rods are amazing and made me giggle every time I shot the blam things out! And for $149, It is almost hard to say "no!" I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet, but thinking about it. The 7/8 is stout and tight and would make a great little creek and ditch rod, as well as fishing up in tight mangrove creeks and tight coves. Great rod for Glades canal bass fishing and Miami canal peacock bass. Also great for snook dock light fishing. Don't let the size fool ya, they will punch it out and will easily hit 60 and up to 80ft with surprising energy.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Ted. Great info as usual. Appreciate the knowledge.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

jonrconner said:


> I've been waiting for someone to chime in on this and I agree with what Backwater says.
> 
> But, there's a reason why all the manufacturers have settled on 9' for graphite rods, it's that they're the best compromise between length and the amount of effort needed to swing them in the the mid range lengths.When you shorten the lever you have to move it faster and over a loger stroke to get the same results. There are exceptions though at the ends of the spectrum, light rods loose their crispness at 9' and heavy ones get hard to swing, so an 8'6" 4wt feels better to me than a 9', and an 8'6" 11wt also. My own tendency is to to fish the longest rod that's comfortable, ie effort and crispness, I like a fast rod and my most used rod in the salt is an 8wt 9'6" because it will aerialize line really fast compared to a shorter road and I do most of my fishing on foot, but I would not try to fish a ten at that length. I also fish an old 8'8" from my boat for bass, throwing under ther the bushes and into gaps in the weeds, horses for courses as my UK friend says.
> 
> ...


Good points on speeding up your casting stroke and lighter weight rods benefiting from shorter length.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

Scissorhands,
I would agree that shorter rods can be more accurate, but I would not agree that you can get more distance, probably less.
JC


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

scissorhands said:


> I say, one of the advantages is accuracy and I believe with a 7'6" rod you gain an extra 20ft for your cast.


Yes like Whiskey says, you can be deadly accurate with a shorter rod, but you have to change up your methods a bit. I wouldn't however agree that it increases your distance.

Definitely tho, as Jon Conner pointed out, the swing on a shorter rod feels easier and if you keep your same stroke as your 9', you wouldn't have to lengthen your stroke, but will lose some distance, but will actually feel easier to cast. That's why I like them for close quarters casting. Plus they are slightly easier handling fish at the boat.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Backwater said:


> Yes like Whiskey says, you can be deadly accurate with a shorter rod, but you have to change up your methods a bit. I wouldn't however agree that it increases your distance.
> 
> Definitely tho, as Jon Conner pointed out, the swing on a shorter rod feels easier and if you keep your same stroke as your 9', you wouldn't have to lengthen your stroke, but will lose some distance, but will actually feel easier to cast. That's why I like them for close quarters casting. Plus they are slightly easier handling fish at the boat.


Im just speaking from personal experience with our 7'6" nano. I can cast a 9' rod 60' easily, but 80' becomes a chore and a little more concentration is required. ( Im talking about actual casts, not just chunking line out there to see how far you can toss a fly).With the nano 80' casts are super easy. I think the our rod casts very well at short distances too.

We don't mend line in the saltwater (at least I don't) so it only makes sense to use a shorter rod, for me. I guess thats one of the downfalls of a shorter rod too.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

jonrconner said:


> Scissorhands,
> I would agree that shorter rods can be more accurate, but I would not agree that you can get more distance, probably less.
> JC


Here is why I think you get more distance with a shorter rod. Our rod is super fast and only 7'6". With that short of a rod the flex in the rod is not as great as a 9 footer, thus it leads me to believe that you are more in control of keeping the rod tip on a straighter path ( it doesn't mean you are actually casting tighter loops) but you have more consistent control and I think it helps in the distance department.

Shorter rods are great for windy conditions as well.


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

scissorhands said:


> Here is why I think you get more distance with a shorter rod. Our rod is super fast and only 7'6". With that short of a rod the flex in the rod is not as great as a 9 footer, thus it leads me to believe that you are more in control of keeping the rod tip on a straighter path ( it doesn't mean you are actually casting tighter loops) but you have more consistent control and I think it helps in the distance department.
> 
> Shorter rods are great for windy conditions as well.


Based on this description on the short rod's performance, I wonder if it would have big benefits when wading and casting in the surf? I do throw the fly rod for picky trout in the surf during the summer, and the biggest problem I have is picking up the line since it laid out at chest height (due to the fact that you are wading in belly to chest high water). Also, you are obviously constantly casting directly into the sea-breeze and the short rod could help with that as well. Sorry to puke my thoughts all over this thread, but I figured I would share my epiphany.... I'm going to try a short rod in the surf.


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

I had a Redington Predator 6wt 7'10" that seemed to cast nice for me in the yard but once I got the water I didn't seem to like it as much. One rod I am curious about is the TFO Mini mag. Very attractive rod and the action seems pretty decent but I didn't have time to cast before heading to VA clinic in Orlando. None of the salesmen had cast it either. Strange...how do you sell something with zero experience with it.
Next time I have to make the drive to TOLLando ( an hour) I'm bring my reel with my fav line and casting that rascal.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I have a couple of the short predator rods, 6 wt and 8 wt. 6wt is lined with an 8wt line because it's very stiff, it is used for bass. The 8wt is lined with a 10 wt and I use it for narrow canals and mangroves. Delicate presentations to spooky fish aren't really what these things are built for. You also have to speed up your cast some due to the shorter length. They are cool rods to have and can be very accurate while slinging a large fly. I like using the 8 wt especially fishing from the bank when I have limited room. If I'm going to fish a wide open flat they stay at home in the garage.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

scissorhands said:


> Here is why I think you get more distance with a shorter rod. Our rod is super fast and only 7'6". With that short of a rod the flex in the rod is not as great as a 9 footer, thus it leads me to believe that you are more in control of keeping the rod tip on a straighter path ( it doesn't mean you are actually casting tighter loops) but you have more consistent control and I think it helps in the distance department.
> 
> Shorter rods are great for windy conditions as well.


I get what you're saying about distance/accuracy with a shorter rod. Basically, you may not be able to throw out as much line as a longer rod, but the improved accuracy of a short rod helps you be more accurate at longer distances.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

Whiskey,
As one who's done quite a bit of fishing in the surf, my favorite was a ten foot 8wt, the reason being that the point is to be able to throw over the swell that's coming in before it breaks and hit the trough beyond, and a long rod will pick up a lot more line and quickly get the cast off while a guy with a short rod is still trying to get his line unstuck from the wash in front of him.
JC


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

jonrconner said:


> Whiskey,
> As one who's done quite a bit of fishing in the surf, my favorite was a ten foot 8wt, the reason being that the point is to be able to throw over the swell that's coming in before it breaks and hit the trough beyond, and a long rod will pick up a lot more line and quickly get the cast off while a guy with a short rod is still trying to get his line unstuck from the wash in front of him.
> JC


Cool. Thanks for the input. Ill pm you for more specifics on which rods worked for you in the surf.


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## tomahawk (Mar 9, 2012)

So, for a newbie would a shorter rod be easier to learn on and help with accuracy?


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

jonrconner said:


> Whiskey,
> As one who's done quite a bit of fishing in the surf, my favorite was a ten foot 8wt, the reason being that the point is to be able to throw over the swell that's coming in before it breaks and hit the trough beyond, and a long rod will pick up a lot more line and quickly get the cast off while a guy with a short rod is still trying to get his line unstuck from the wash in front of him.
> JC


Yes longer rods are better for distance while wading surf, rivers, or flats, but I am thinking of buying the 7'6 Loomis Pro in the 10/11 for large flies with SA titan taper for the skiff. Might be a good backup to put in the holder behind me when poling. Any one else using the Loomis short rods?


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## AHerrin (Nov 30, 2015)

I have the Loomis Short in the 9/10. Cast like a 7wt but it definitely is a niche rod. I'm using it to swing skip flies to tarpon under deep water mangroves and that rod gives me a lot of speed in a short amount of distance for me to do so and deadly accurate. Let me say this though, this was not my first short rod and even so the first few times I casted it and learned how to handle the rod it felt like I was missing a section and not just because its a 7'6. The stiff tip really requires a lot of energy to properly use it and time to adjust to the feeling. That all being said its a mangrove monster and I love it to death for my setting


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Which line do you like for the shorty?


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

I have a couple shorter rods, and love them both:
Older Loomis GLX 10/11 Mega 8'6"
Epic Bandit 7' 9"

They are both awesome punching flies in wind, shorter distances (e.g. throwing inside of 60 ft) and repeated casts (like working a bank or something). Also, better leverage when fighting big fish (big reds, tarpon)


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jonrconner said:


> Whiskey,
> As one who's done quite a bit of fishing in the surf, my favorite was a ten foot 8wt, the reason being that the point is to be able to throw over the swell that's coming in before it breaks and hit the trough beyond, and a long rod will pick up a lot more line and quickly get the cast off while a guy with a short rod is still trying to get his line unstuck from the wash in front of him.
> JC


X2 - Whisky, The longer rod will will keep the fly line up higher when you are down in the water. I'd only use a shorter rod from a skiff of some sort or fishing from the bank.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

tomahawk said:


> So, for a newbie would a shorter rod be easier to learn on and help with accuracy?


I would say it would be a little easier, yes. But be careful about going too short.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

sjrobin said:


> Which line do you like for the shorty?


a shorty line! Ha!

Just try a rio redfish. It's a short head. or something with a short head.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Remember that a short rod on a skiff ALSO keeps the fly closer to the skiff, i.e., the back of my head!


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