# Tabs or foil?



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I wouldn’t drill holes in the transom for anything but adjustable tabs like Lencos or Bennetts. Auto tabs are not the best if you want full control. 
I don’t see a problem drilling holes in a lower unit for a compression plate, who removes them once installed?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Keep in mind this isn't a hard-core skinny water skiff. It's more like a mini bay boat. She jumps up on plane quickly and runs fast enough on the stock prop. I'd just like to get the nose down a bit.

The motor has 8 hours on it. I really don't want to drill it. I don't care about the transom. I can fix any mistakes there easy enough.


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## JIMMYZ750 (Feb 20, 2007)

I'd rather drill a hole in my knee than in my transom...…….ok well not my knee but you know...


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I would think adjustable tabs give you way more upside than the foil.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Isn't there an upgrade kit to the bolt system if I decide later on?


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

I wouldn't own a boat without adjustable trim tabs (Lenco or Bennett Bolt). When mounted correctly, you have the advantage of raising them out of the water completely - like they're not there, with zero drag. Automatic tabs are always applying force and drag against the water. I also really like the Bob's Machine Shop TrueTracker foil. Yes, it's a bolt-on - but you can fill the holes easily with JB Weld if it doesn't fit your needs. But I'd bet money, you'd keep it. It's not as large as other plates. It allows you to raise the motor one hole higher than you had it setup before, and provides quicker hole shot, better prop-grip in turns, reduces porpoising, stays on plane at lower RPMs, and allows more positive motor trim for more bow lift at high speed. However, your motor height has to be setup correctly with the BMS TrueTracker. The plate should be riding on the surface of the water - not submerged.


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

I'm no expert just getting into microskiff territory, but I thought I had seen a few of those foils that were 2 peice and basically clam shelled rather that drilling holes. FWIW I will never own another boat without proper adjustable tabs.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

What Skiff said... I won’t rig a skiff without tabs, period. They make any hull perform better.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

@firecat1981 interesting thread.... did me and @Smackdaddy53 conversation in the engine thread trigger this? 

Hydrofoils are not the same as compression plates. Foils will help with prop blow out, but compression plates to the same and then some. This has been covered in tons of threads.

What boat do you have? And you are putting a Tohatsu 60 on it. 

I've talked to Jack Foreman on this topic for now what is my third skiff and he recommended the largest plate I could put on my Whipray (no tunnel). On my B2, he steered me towards Stiffy and Keven recommended the short long (due to the sponsons).

Plates do a much better job channeling water all the way around the lower unit and help improve water pick up. They will also give the stern more lift when getting on plate compared to a foil.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> I wouldn't own a boat without adjustable trim tabs (Lenco or Bennett Bolt). When mounted correctly, you have the advantage of raising them out of the water completely - like they're not there, with zero drag. Automatic tabs are always applying force and drag against the water. I also really like the Bob's Machine Shop TrueTracker foil. Yes, it's a bolt-on - but you can fill the holes easily with JB Weld if it doesn't fit your needs. But I'd bet money, you'd keep it. It's not as large as other plates. It allows you to raise the motor one hole higher than you had it setup before, and provides quicker hole shot, better prop-grip in turns, reduces porpoising, stays on plane at lower RPMs, and allows more positive motor trim for more bow lift at high speed. However, your motor height has to be setup correctly with the BMS TrueTracker. The plate should be riding on the surface of the water - not submerged.


Unless your tabs are built in the hull (when retracted they are basically nonexistent) like a few out there the tabs will still offer planing surface even when retracted. It’s not a bad thing especially on non sponson flat transom hulls. Most hulls have more of a tendency to porpoise rather than bow plow so it’s not really an issue.

I’m not a fan of a huge compression plate, just personal preference. The New Water plates are ridiculously big (around 19” wide and 36” long) and the Tran CP100 is much smaller and still offers assistance in hole shot and keeping water around the prop while doing so.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

What Smack said ^^^ 👍


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## Davalos (Mar 25, 2021)

firecat1981 said:


> My boat runs bow light. Now that might change with adding the trolling motor, but I'm also thinking about days I leave the TM behind (scalloping, sand bar days....).
> 
> I used an se200 hydrofoil on my last few skiffs and it worked well, but I'm not sure I can stomach drilling a brand new motor. So I was thinking about some self adjusting tabs. Most likely the Bennett's or Nauticus.
> 
> Thoughts?


Drill your boat? Or drill your motor? Hmmm? IMHO, the foil has a more pronounced effect, because it is set further back than the tabs would be. How about an SE hydrofoil clip-on? It got lots of good reviews


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Davalos said:


> Drill your boat? Or drill your motor? Hmmm? IMHO, the foil has a more pronounced effect, because it is set further back than the tabs would be. How about an SE hydrofoil clip-on? It got lots of good reviews
> View attachment 173510


Cheesy assed contraption just like a clip on tie.


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## Davalos (Mar 25, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Cheesy assed contraption just like a clip on tie.


I totally agree. But it does complete the objective, and with no holes. In my opinion, trim tabs look cheesy as well. That is why I am currently doing my micro-cat build with integrated tab boxes. No foil, no tabs. And I get about 90 extra lbs of buoyancy as well.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

If it were a skinny water boat I'd toss on a plate, jack plate, and heavy cupped prop, but she's not a poling skiff. I doubt I'll run it in anything shallower then 2.5-3' unless I'm on the TM, and it will never be poled.

This is for a FS17 I just finished.









I don't intend on putting a jackplate on, and at most might get a mild 3 blade cupped prop because hole shot is no issue with this boat and I'm looking for more midrange cruising then anything. 

This idea came about because I have a coworker with the SLT's on his boat now and loves them. And looking them up they got better reviews then they hydrofoils. I haven't had or needed tabs on my last 3 boats and didn't want them on this one, but I figured this is an OK middle ground.

As far as the clamp on SE foil bracket goes, been there. It's a piece of junk and scratches the hell out of your motor as it moves around and vibrates. I tried it on my last skiff and ended up just drilling it.


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## Davalos (Mar 25, 2021)

firecat1981 said:


> If it were a skinny water boat I'd toss on a plate, jack plate, and heavy cupped prop, but she's not a poling skiff. I doubt I'll run it in anything shallower then 2.5-3' unless I'm on the TM, and it will never be poled.
> 
> This is for a FS17 I just finished.
> View attachment 173511
> ...


I'm with you, man! (SE 200 on my Tohatsu 30)




  








16198824645616450008299392279542.jpg




__
Davalos


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May 1, 2021


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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

firecat1981 said:


> If it were a skinny water boat I'd toss on a plate, jack plate, and heavy cupped prop, but she's not a poling skiff. I doubt I'll run it in anything shallower then 2.5-3' unless I'm on the TM, and it will never be poled.
> 
> This is for a FS17 I just finished.
> View attachment 173511
> ...


Sounds like you already know what you want and are going to do. Just buy the auto tabs and let us know how they work for you. Everyone is different. Nice build by the way!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Davalos said:


> I totally agree. But it does complete the objective, and with no holes. In my opinion, trim tabs look cheesy as well. That is why I am currently doing my micro-cat build with integrated tab boxes. No foil, no tabs. And I get about 90 extra lbs of buoyancy as well.
> View attachment 173512



I don't think tabs look bad on a boat. For a dedicated skinny water skiff that will only be used in very calm waters and that need the weight offset for poling, the sponsors work well, if designed correctly. However they can be problematic if you didn't calculate the amount of pressure they will create at your given run angle. It's all in the math. You also never see them on a boat made for choppier conditions because they can cause problems with water broaching the stern as it gets trapped. 

Every boat is a compromise, and each has there merits. My skiff is not typical of what you see here most times with its higher sides and proud nose. It's drafts shallow but was designed after the Simon's sea skiff to be very seaworthy.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Mike Haydon said:


> Sounds like you already know what you want and are going to do. Just buy the auto tabs and let us know how they work for you. Everyone is different. Nice build by the way!


It's definitely the direction I was thinking when making this post. I was hoping some guys would pop up who have actually used them and offer opinion. I won't argue that the normal tabs are better, that's obvious, but I feel it might be overkill for such a boat. I don't need them to plane, stay on plane, or correct a list while running.


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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

firecat1981 said:


> It's definitely the direction I was thinking when making this post. I was hoping some guys would pop up who have actually used them and offer opinion. I won't argue that the normal tabs are better, that's obvious, but I feel it might be overkill for such a boat. I don't need them to plane, stay on plane, or correct a list while running.


Well 90% on here are gonna say they have, will have, and use tabs all day and never again without them. My last boat was a 17' key west and the auto tabs were exactly what I needed. I just need to keep the bow down when getting on plane. Once on plane the boat moved along good enough people could walk about and the freeboard was high enough I wasnt worried about correcting heading into a chop. They may have even held it on plane a little slower. Not sure on that last one. Good luck either way


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

So you actually had them. We're they the Bennetts or smart tabs?


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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

They were the cheap $120 tabs from west marine. If the price wasnt to much more I would go with the one you could change later in the case you change boats or just your mind on needing them.


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## Davalos (Mar 25, 2021)

.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Davalos said:


> My test boat is designed for the Indian River Lagoon and ICW in central Florida. And specifically for moderate chop.


I already commented on your other thread. No offense, but while I think your rig can work well as a soloskiff style platform, unless your definition of moderate chop is different then mine I have doubts about the effectiveness of your design outside of protected waters. With the sponson design, low hp, and lack of forward reserve buoyancy (a big issue with all cats), I think it will be an issue. But that has nothing to do with this topic really so we can discuss that later on your thread.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

So I know the SE200 clamp on kit is junk, but anyone ever try a Shaw Wing?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

firecat1981 said:


> So I know the SE200 clamp on kit is junk, but anyone ever try a Shaw Wing?


Shaw wings are pretty good. I’m not a fan of compression fit plates that are only held in place with sandwiching the top and bottom plate halves together and using a bunch of sealant to hold the plate in place. Once you do all that you may as well through bolt a Tran CP100 plate and be done.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Looking at the prices, I might just make my own. They are pretty basic.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

firecat1981 said:


> Looking at the prices, I might just make my own. They are pretty basic.


You built a couple boats, a compression plate is not rocket science. Make the sides turn down 3-4” and wider than your prop by 2-3” total. It needs to catch water in the front and not hang way off the rear. Some of these monstrosities are way too big.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes they are, I don't get why I'd need one hanging 2 feet back. 

I'm going to wait until the TM is installed and we get back from vacation. Then I might play around in the garage for a bit.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

If all you need is a little weight up front, fill a bag with sand and put it in the bow.

Move a passenger up front.

Put a shim on the engine mount to give you a couple degrees more tuck.

Forget about all that other gimmicky crap.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

It's dynamic. She rides better with someone up front, but that rider suffers and I often ride alone. I'm not a fan of engine wedges, they are great for getting on plane quickly, but after that you loose efficiency and I'd like to run with more trim when the conditions call. I'm gonna wait to see how it runs with the trolling motor mounted.


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