# What small Offshore Boats should I look at



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Older model Mako is very good also. Check the transoms . The 25 whaler is Texas tarpon classic


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

If you can find an older "classic" Mako 17 or 19 in good condition it may be worth a look.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

The 17 Aquasports are similar to the Makos. I owned one for a few years and fished from the tidal creeks to nearshore for cobia/macks. Be careful about water-logged transoms. The 222 Aquasport was the inspiration for the Dorado. Pathfinder also made 18- and 20-foot model bays in years past. Hard to find but they are out there. 

The ultimate beach tarpon boat, IMO, was the Bayshore. Only 49 built in Wrightsville Beach, but the largest casting deck around and that true Carolina bow flare would laugh at sea breeze chop. The forward compartment hatch was big enough to crawl inside when the lightning started popping. Wet on a quartering sea, but man they were pretty. Wish I still had mine.


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## PropGunOne (May 27, 2018)

That skiff with some improved spray rails aft and maybe a softer chine up front would be a fun project. Did the platform get any actual use? Looks like a pig to push around. Love the flair.

Edit: looks like Chaos got the molds. They make a 16 with pretty lines and a 7-foot beam but she’s HEAVY. This is giving me ideas....

Edit again: https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/444849-bayshore-boats-history.html Guess a few companies have molds for it now. Original lamination schedule included in the link above. Bayshore built them light.


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## TidewateR (Nov 11, 2009)

You mentioned wanting to tarpon fish. For that reason, i would stay away from boston whaler due to hull slap

Keep a look out for a 20’ seacraft. Very versatile boat. If you go with an older (Potter built) Seacraft, make sure it has been properly restored. The later tracker versions aren’t bad at all. A buddy has one and fishes the shit out if it. It’s held up great, plus no wood to worry about.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Thx Guys!
Forgot about the old Seacrafts and Makos; they were both great boats before corporate got ahold of them.

mike


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

PropGunOne said:


> That skiff with some improved spray rails aft and maybe a softer chine up front would be a fun project. Did the platform get any actual use? Looks like a pig to push around. Love the flair.
> 
> Edit: looks like Chaos got the molds. They make a 16 with pretty lines and a 7-foot beam but she’s HEAVY. This is giving me ideas....
> 
> Edit again: https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/444849-bayshore-boats-history.html Guess a few companies have molds for it now. Original lamination schedule included in the link above. Bayshore built them light.


Mine was a Bayshore factory demo. I poled it all the time (guide boat for 12 years). Yes, it was heavy, but it still poled and floated shallower than a buddy's 16 Hewes Redfisher.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Zika said:


> Mine was a Bayshore factory demo. I poled it all the time (guide boat for 12 years). Yes, it was heavy, but it still poled and floated shallower than a buddy's 16 Hewes Redfisher.


And my God, they are sexy! I’ve always loved the lines!


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

So, here is my summary list so far.

older Mako
Older Seacraft
Jones Brothers
Some kind of panga
Older Aquasport
Maybe a Bayshore derivative


Mike


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## Lowtidelowlife (Aug 19, 2014)

Heavy 17 eats a chop and they float skinny enough for me. 78’ mako.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

^
Weren't the Bayshores cold-molded? If so, they should have been very light. Also, iirc, they may have built (1) small one ( 13"' )??


...and another vote for a Seacraft...a great ride albeit a bit wet.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

JC Designs said:


> And my God, they are sexy! I’ve always loved the lines!


I don't want to derail the thread, but someone is building a Conchfish w/ a Carolina flair...


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Pole Position said:


> I don't want to derail the thread, but someone is building a Conchfish w/ a Carolina flair...


Since we’re not derailing... someone is building an X-Caliber with “flair” too!


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Lowtidelowlife said:


> View attachment 140996
> Heavy 17 eats a chop and they float skinny enough for me. 78’ mako.


very close to what I originally envisioned.

mike


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Ok, since the Aquasport 222 was mentiined I feel the need to include the proline 20 & 24 flatbacks. Both great boats for inshore/offshore fishing when set up correctly.


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## PropGunOne (May 27, 2018)

A plumb bow Conchfish stretched to 18 with a flare to knock down the nose spray up front and the flair traversing into spray rails aft. Oh, and a curved transom. With a notch and a tunnel.


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## PropGunOne (May 27, 2018)

Zika said:


> Mine was a Bayshore factory demo. I poled it all the time (guide boat for 12 years). Yes, it was heavy, but it still poled and floated shallower than a buddy's 16 Hewes Redfisher.


The Chaos version is heavy, something like 700lbs on a 16 hull. Couldn’t find data on the OG Bayshore. Hewes is a pig.


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## TidewateR (Nov 11, 2009)

http://chaosboat.com/chaos-21.html

speaking of chaos...I looked at these, but for the price you can get a whole lotta bay boat. Sure is pretty though


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## 17376 (May 5, 2017)

Key West 1720


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

Hydra Sports and Cape Horn also made some smaller offshore capable boats. I'd also urge you to check out the SeaHunter 18 or an Egret 189. Smaller flats boats with big water capabilities


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

A Hewes couldn't pole past an half-exposed crab trap but my Bayshore sure would and did on many occasions.

Chaos, pluueezz. Just consider the name. There's only one original.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Not sure of your budget, I’ve always loved the Layton Bay 22. Beautiful lines, very versatile and checks a lot of boxes.

Here’s one for sale- https://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sale-wanted/1084382-new-layton-bay-22-a.html


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Classic Mako 20' with a newer 4stroke. Remove the bow rail, remove the windshield and frame. Flush mount everything and get after it. 

I have a Mako 224 that is setup similar to what I think you're after.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/1982-mako-224-resto-mod.44019/


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Water Bound said:


> View attachment 141048
> Not sure of your budget, I’ve always loved the Layton Bay 22. Beautiful lines, very versatile and checks a lot of boxes.
> 
> Here’s one for sale- https://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sale-wanted/1084382-new-layton-bay-22-a.html


cool looking boat that I have never heard of.

mike


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

If you're wanting something newer in that size range I think I'd take a really hard look at the 18-20' Parker's.

Super tough boats.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> Classic Mako 20' with a newer 4stroke. Remove the bow rail, remove the windshield and frame. Flush mount everything and get after it.
> 
> I have a Mako 224 that is setup similar to what I think you're after.
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/1982-mako-224-resto-mod.44019/


yep!

mike


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Smallish production size, but they also do most of the repair work for Regulator 



Mike Geer said:


> cool looking boat that I have never heard of.
> 
> mike


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Water Bound said:


> Smallish production size, but they also do most of the repair work for Regulator


the lines look really good.

mike


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## PG350 (Jan 19, 2012)

Panga all day long!!!


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## Tigweld (Oct 26, 2017)




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## SC on the FLY (Sep 16, 2015)

crboggs said:


> If you can find an older "classic" Mako 17 or 19 in good condition it may be worth a look.


What year MAKOS are the ones to look for?


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

What about an 18 foot Wellcraft. It’s a big little boat.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

SC on the FLY said:


> What year MAKOS are the ones to look for?


92 and older


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Water Bound said:


> View attachment 141048
> Not sure of your budget, I’ve always loved the Layton Bay 22. Beautiful lines, very versatile and checks a lot of boxes.
> 
> Here’s one for sale- https://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sale-wanted/1084382-new-layton-bay-22-a.html


Sharp! But I do not like that front deck. 

To the OP, I’m in the same boat. If you’re looking at refurbed 222’s you better be locked and loaded because the nicer ones are selling in days.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

For the best in sight casting near shore or Texas beach fish hunting the vessel needs durability and forward deck fishability plus a transom to fit a trolling motor for the rare calm days. Boston Whaler and Mako ( 20 to 25 ft) are the best for Texas gulf. The only other vessels would be custom made big $$. There are on average ten to thirty days a year where this would be comfortable for most anglers in Texas. Very specialized.


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## ceejkay (May 7, 2016)

Here would be my list for you. 
70/80s 19-1 aquasport or 19’6
20’ proline flatback
80s 17 hydrasport (One of my favorite boats I’ve owned)
80s 19 mako
2000s 19 hydrasport bay bolt


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

LowHydrogen said:


> 92 and older


You'd know better than me but I thought the old school Mako didn't get sold until like 1995, right? I know they struggled badly after Hurricane Andrew which precipitated the sale.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Zika said:


> The 17 Aquasports are similar to the Makos. I owned one for a few years and fished from the tidal creeks to nearshore for cobia/macks. Be careful about water-logged transoms. The 222 Aquasport was the inspiration for the Dorado. Pathfinder also made 18- and 20-foot model bays in years past. Hard to find but they are out there.
> 
> The ultimate beach tarpon boat, IMO, was the Bayshore. Only 49 built in Wrightsville Beach, but the largest casting deck around and that true Carolina bow flare would laugh at sea breeze chop. The forward compartment hatch was big enough to crawl inside when the lightning started popping. Wet on a quartering sea, but man they were pretty. Wish I still had mine.
> 
> View attachment 140946


If I am correct the Dorado aquired the old 222 Aquasport hull mold. I had a 222 for almost 20 years before I sold it.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Interesting that many recommendations are boats that are 30+ years old.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

sjrobin said:


> For the best in sight casting near shore or Texas beach fish hunting the vessel needs durability and forward deck fishability plus a transom to fit a trolling motor for the rare calm days. Boston Whaler and Mako ( 20 to 25 ft) are the best for Texas gulf. The only other vessels would be custom made big $$. There are on average ten to thirty days a year where this would be comfortable for most anglers in Texas. Very specialized.


this sums up what I am dealing with. My gut says 17-20 feet no frills. I am sure that I will use it for other things, but the main purpose is for the beach 10-40 days a year.

mike


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> You'd know better than me but I thought the old school Mako didn't get sold until like 1995, right? I know they struggled badly after Hurricane Andrew which precipitated the sale.


My understanding, and don't quote me on exact dates/details, orig family ownership took in mgt/financial partners in 93, boats were still being made in the same place by some of the same people until 95 when they were bought by Tracker / BPS.

The guys over in Classic Mako could for sure give firm details, but I know that <\= 92 were without outside people.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Surffshr said:


> Interesting that many recommendations are boats that are 30+ years old.


Yes many are suggesting older boats because the build quality is there, and they can still be afforded by a person making <100k/yr. Older SeaVee, Mako, Dorado, SeaCraft, Aquasport hulls were built tough, with heavy hulls not assembly line type boats.

IMO To get a new current production, high quality boat, in the same class now you're dropping a minimum of 80K+. Then again I'm biased lol


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## mooker82 (Jun 25, 2015)

If you like the chaos and that style this sweet Xcelerator 18 is for sale in Charleston for $44k.


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## Wilmington (Dec 4, 2015)

Jones Brothers


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> Classic Mako 20' with a newer 4stroke. Remove the bow rail, remove the windshield and frame. Flush mount everything and get after it.
> 
> I have a Mako 224 that is setup similar to what I think you're after.
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/1982-mako-224-resto-mod.44019/


Nice restore on the 224! I did the same things you're suggesting on my 17 Aquasport except the re-power.


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## Tigweld (Oct 26, 2017)




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## Tigweld (Oct 26, 2017)

I’m biased, old 25 sea vee


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

If you can find an older SeaCraft 18' SF you'll be all set.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

sidelock said:


> If you can find an older SeaCraft 18' SF you'll be all set.
> View attachment 141234
> View attachment 141236
> View attachment 141238


looks about perfect!

mike


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## ceejkay (May 7, 2016)

Surffshr said:


> Interesting that many recommendations are boats that are 30+ years old.


He’s looking for a boat to run 10-40 days a year. Most of the boats mentioned can be had for under 10k. And since they are so old they really won’t depreciate much more (unless rot is an issue) so if he needs to dump it for whatever reason he won’t take a hard hit.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

SeaVee makes great boats. The older SeaCraft were a fantastic hull design, but the open transom were problematic for more than one owner.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Steve_Mevers said:


> If I am correct the Dorado aquired the old 222 Aquasport hull mold. I had a 222 for almost 20 years before I sold it.


I didn’t know that but makes sense, definite similarities but their 23 is definitely a bigger boat. I was just at Dorado 3 weeks ago and they had a refurbed 222 that they did for sale, flat deck with no extra step up deck on bow. They sold it Wednesday but man was it pricey. After seeing how they make boats and the quality they put into them I now see why they are so freaking expensive.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

A 23 Dorado with tower may be on the market soon in the Big Bend. If so, I'll share a link (not mine).


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

Privateer
Parker
KenCraft

If you really want a big water boat look at 21 Contender or 21 Bluewater. I used a 21 Contender as comfy bay boat for a few years and it was a performer.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Megalops said:


> I didn’t know that but makes sense, definite similarities but their 23 is definitely a bigger boat. I was just at Dorado 3 weeks ago and they had a refurbed 222 that they did for sale, flat deck with no extra step up deck on bow. They sold it Wednesday but man was it pricey. After seeing how they make boats and the quality they put into them I now see why they are so freaking expensive.


Sold my hull with a bad transom, soft deck and worn out motor without a trailer for more than I paid for it after 20 years.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Zika said:


> A 23 Dorado with tower may be on the market soon in the Big Bend. If so, I'll share a link (not mine).


Can your shoot me a PM when it hits the market?


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Sold my hull with a bad transom, soft deck and worn out motor without a trailer for more than I paid for it after 20 years.


That’s awesome! Wish I had the skills to do a refurb the right way.


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

Fished offshore in a 24' Yellowfin the other day. Sweet boat. Definately not a good offshore option, though. Was a calm day, and we got beat up pretty good.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Megalops said:


> Can your shoot me a PM when it hits the market?


Will do. The potential seller has an account on here but doesn't log on often.


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## Buffalo Bob (Aug 28, 2019)

Lowtidelowlife said:


> View attachment 140996
> Heavy 17 eats a chop and they float skinny enough for me. 78’ mako.


Nice Looking!


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## Buffalo Bob (Aug 28, 2019)

Zika said:


> The 17 Aquasports are similar to the Makos. I owned one for a few years and fished from the tidal creeks to nearshore for cobia/macks. Be careful about water-logged transoms. The 222 Aquasport was the inspiration for the Dorado. Pathfinder also made 18- and 20-foot model bays in years past. Hard to find but they are out there.
> 
> The ultimate beach tarpon boat, IMO, was the Bayshore. Only 49 built in Wrightsville Beach, but the largest casting deck around and that true Carolina bow flare would laugh at sea breeze chop. The forward compartment hatch was big enough to crawl inside when the lightning started popping. Wet on a quartering sea, but man they were pretty. Wish I still had mine.
> 
> View attachment 140946


That is nice looking Zika!


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

I am actively looking at:
Seacraft 20, 23
Dorado 23
Mako 19, 22ish
Aquasport 222, 19-20ish
Jones Brothers 19, 20,23
Contender 21

thx for all the great info.

mike


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## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Hard to beat the Jones Brothers or similar style. I owned a 20 and it was a great nearshore boat. Just depends on how much "offshore" type fishing you plan on doing. Hard to beat a 2150 bluewater if you are comparing to seacraft and contender as well.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

So to piggyback on this discussion with the thought of repowering an older hull with an eye on what I'd call light offshore fishing. Not running 100+ miles out, which is required on much of the Texas coast to get to tuna and billfish, but say out to 60 miles.

With the efficiency of modern outboards and reliability, is it still necessary to run multiple outboards? Not for speed but for the safety of redundant outboards.

Like a buddy of mine has a 2019 SeaHunt 25 with a single 300 Yamaha. We've run it 80 miles out but it's brand new and he's fanatical about maintenance.

However, if you're looking at something like an old 20' Mako that currently has a 200hp Yammy 2-smoke single and you're redoing the boat. Is there any reason to look at repowering with 4-stroke twins like twin 90's or twin 115's?

Just a thought I was wondering about. Sorry for the hijack.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Although not well known in the south, the Maritime Skiff has a good reputation. Very seaworthy from what i understand.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> ...
> With the efficiency of modern outboards and reliability, is it still necessary to run multiple outboards? Not for speed but for the safety of redundant outboards....


To me no, most problems are electrical or fuel related and that usually affects both motors. Rare to hear of a new motor dropping a piston or lunching a lower unit, not to say that doesn't happen just not very common with new 4 strokes.

I run a new single on an old boat, I also bought a PLB after those guys in Jax never came back. If you're offshore any distance it's well worth the $3-400.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Mike Geer said:


> I am looking for a small offshore boat. What are your recommendation.
> 15-20 foot Boston Whalers come to mind, but what else is out there.
> Going to use it for beach Tarpon.
> 
> ...


Probably too far away but this just popped up here in Houston: https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/houston-1985-seacraft-115hp-johnson/7145580188.html

Looks like it might be a cool resto-mod. Personally, for fly fishing I'd hang an Armstrong bracket, repower with a Zuke 140, upgrade electronics/wiring, strip off the rail and bimini, replace the cleats with flush-mount, and of course do the necessary glass repairs & repaint. I'd also add trim tabs and a trolling motor.

I'm honestly a little bummed that I'm not in a position to do that right now and really, I'd not feel all that comfortable running an 18' boat like this 60 miles out. Maybe it's just an internal concern but I feel like I'd really want to at least have a 20' rig.


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Probably too far away but this just popped up here in Houston: https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/houston-1985-seacraft-115hp-johnson/7145580188.html
> 
> Looks like it might be a cool resto-mod. Personally, for fly fishing I'd hang an Armstrong bracket, repower with a Zuke 140, upgrade electronics/wiring, strip off the rail and bimini, replace the cleats with flush-mount, and of course do the necessary glass repairs & repaint. I'd also add trim tabs and a trolling motor.
> 
> I'm honestly a little bummed that I'm not in a position to do that right now and really, I'd not feel all that comfortable running an 18' boat like this 60 miles out. Maybe it's just an internal concern but I feel like I'd really want to at least have a 20' rig.


I would venture to say that the 18' Seacraft is a lot more sea worthy than many 20 footers out there. Having said that I still wouldn't feel comfortable taking it 60 miles offshore either. A couple of years ago while fishing for albies in Harkers Is. the weather turned real nasty in a very short time and all the boats started heading in including myself in my 18 SF and I was smoking by some of the other boats in the 20' range.


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## VB Fly Fisher (Mar 23, 2018)

My first primarily salt water boat was a 21' Parker SE with a 200 Yamaha on it. Had a raised casting platform, which was great for fly fishing the CBBT for rockfish...even in 2-3' seas. Sold that boat to get a Action Craft 2310 Coastal Bay and it was the worst decision I've ever made. That Parker was so verstile in terms of where you could fish it, but was also very simple and did not require much maintenance at all. My fishing has changed to 100% fly fishing and have moved onto a poling skiff, but still miss the days of taking that Parker to the CBBT for Cobia, Tautog, and Rockfish.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Mike Geer said:


> I am looking for a small offshore boat. What are your recommendation.
> 15-20 foot Boston Whalers come to mind, but what else is out there.
> Going to use it for beach Tarpon.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't consider Boston Whalers offshore boats.
Smallest "Offshore" boats in my opinion...
Croswait 21
Wellcraft V20 Fisherman
Shamrock 17/ 20
Seacraft 18/23
Northrip 21
Albury Brothers 20
General Marine 20
Leblanc Brothers 1610
Willis Old School 22
Regulator 21
Contender 21
Jonesbother Cape fisherman 19/20
Mitchell Cove 20cc
Dusky 22 FA
Bristol Harbor 21CC
Parker 21

... There are a lot of others as well I'm sure.


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## Gianni Battaglia (Aug 19, 2019)

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the 15 Hobie powerskiff.
I have 15’ hms Calibogie. they fit the microskiff thread.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

http://may-craft.com/center-console/

You might find a used one. Lot of history behind these hulls. I have a 2300 CCX with a Suzuki 200, no T-top because I fly fish. Fuel efficiency is unbelievable. I had it built and added 11" to the length of the casting platform. Everyone who's fished from it loves it.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

FlyBy said:


> http://may-craft.com/center-console/
> 
> You might find a used one. Lot of history behind these hulls. I have a 2300 CCX with a Suzuki 200, no T-top because I fly fish. Fuel efficiency is unbelievable. I had it built and added 11" to the length of the casting platform. Everyone who's fished from it loves it.


That's pretty slick. I like that rig. Any more pics (because who on here doesn't like ogling boats?)?


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

I picked up a 2005 Jones Brothers Cape Fisherman 20 earlier this spring. It gets my vote!


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

pete_paschall said:


> I picked up a 2005 Jones Brothers Cape Fisherman 20 earlier this spring. It gets my vote!
> View attachment 142664


what did you pay for it, if you don’t mind me asking?

mike


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## Shallows (Mar 29, 2020)

fpjeepy said:


> I wouldn't consider Boston Whalers offshore boats.


Really?!


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Shallows said:


> Really?!


When people say whalers, I assume they mean the 13/15/17 Montauk. Those are great all around boats. They run somewhat shallow, they are pretty stable for there length, unsinkable, great for getting back and forth to the sand bar with a cooler of beer. 

The boats that I listed are much saltier boats. They should have 22"+ gunnels, self-bailing cockpits, heavy deadrise to handle at least 3-5ft chop. Offshore is 20 miles plus in my opinion. 30-50lb standup gear with at least two guys on one side of the boat while landing a fish should feel safe. I wouldn't do that in a 17 Montauk with gunnels to mid-shin. 

Outrage 230 yeah, but OP was saying 15-20ft.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

I think the saltiest boat per unit length goes to the Formosa 480 Offshore CC in Australia. 16' 1" in length and 26" gunnels. Closing in on a giant bathtub.


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

Mike Geer said:


> what did you pay for it, if you don’t mind me asking?
> 
> mike


18K, which I felt like was a steal. I had been keeping my eyes open for one for a while and hadn't (still haven't) seen one for less than 25-30k.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> That's pretty slick. I like that rig. Any more pics (because who on here doesn't like ogling boats?)?


Thanks, I'm really enjoying it as do my fishing buddies. 

Full transom with bracket was a requirement. I like to come home.

Pop-up cleats. VHF antenna unscrews from base for stowing out of the way. Coax connects to base. Holds six fly rods under gunwale.

A fly fishing machine.


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## Shallows (Mar 29, 2020)

fpjeepy said:


> Smallest "Offshore" boats in my opinion...
> Croswait 21
> Wellcraft V20 Fisherman
> Shamrock 17/ 20
> ...


Which one do you think is the best used value in the 20K'ish range?


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

Wilmington said:


> Jones Brothers


Overpriced !


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Shallows said:


> Which one do you think is the best used value in the 20K'ish range?


Best budget option is the Wellcraft v20 Fisherman in my opinion.

*Edit you can probably get one for $2k and then spend the rest on a good motor.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

pete_paschall said:


> 18K, which I felt like was a steal. I had been keeping my eyes open for one for a while and hadn't (still haven't) seen one for less than 25-30k.


I would buy a 20 LT right now for 18k.

the May-Crafts look great.

mike


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

fpjeepy said:


> I think the saltiest boat per unit length goes to the Formosa 480 Offshore CC in Australia. 16' 1" in length and 26" gunnels. Closing in on a giant bathtub.


Jesus, that is one weird looking boat.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> Jesus, that is one weird looking boat.


Amen and Amen. Bathtub is a really good summary.


Mike


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Mike Geer said:


> Amen and Amen. Bathtub is a really good summary.
> 
> 
> Mike


I think a old clawfoot tub has more graceful lines.

It's like Cape Horn started breeding Chihuahuas.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> I think a old clawfoot tub has more graceful lines.
> 
> It's like Cape Horn started breeding Chihuahuas.


totally agree.


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## SeaLee12 (Jun 24, 2020)

I run an 18’ Parker up to 30 miles off. I also pick my days carefully and carry an array of safety gear. I do long for a couple More degrees of dead rise when it gets ugly. The Jones brothers cape fisherman hulls are fantastic, just too rich for my blood. Check out Parker - they build a very solid hull throughout their range.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

LowHydrogen said:


> I think a old clawfoot tub has more graceful lines.
> 
> It's like Cape Horn started breeding Chihuahuas.


Agreed. But if I had to pick a 16ft boat to be 20 miles offshore in. It would be that one.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

My opinions go a little against the commonly repeated guidance...

- *hulls:* you want one that planes at low speed. The ride of 24 degree hull that you always here people champion is wonderful when you can get on and stay on plane which means it's not really that rough out there because something like a 23 Contender needs about 25mph to plane. You're not going to be going 25+ in any CC during a squall. You need a hull that planes at something like 13 mph which is more like an Albury design. The worst design for a small CC going far offshore is a 24 degree stepped hull and that is what you see a lot of these days because people in FL like to run and gun on nice days. Sure it rides efficiently and great at 40 mph on most days but I would not want to get caught in a storm in one 40 miles out and can't even stay on plane.

- *Motors:* Every brand has thier fanboys and tales of problems but one (Suzuki) does have a gear ratio that turns a large diameter pretty well. Whether done by big displacement V8 or a gear ratio, you're not looking for a speed prop here. A big 4-blade prop helps it stay on plane at low speed.

One motor is fine. Half the weight and half the maitenance costs. I would rather have one well maintained motor than two motors that missed an annual service. Use this savings to change your filters (including an extenral fuel water separator) more often and you will have no issue. Bad fuel issues will affect both motors because they are pulling fuel from the same tank. We had a saying when I was flying twin-turbine helos.. "when you lose an engine start looking for a place for an emergency landing because the other engine is a few seconds behind".

If you do go twin motors... make sure you prop them so the boat will plane on one motor.

The electrical is the part that scares me. You never know when that's going to rear it's head. If buying an older boat, I would have a complete rewire done by the best guy I could find for peace of mind. I used to get all kinds of codes and warnings and found out it was my gauge not the motor. My Suzuki motor has never thrown a code when you run a history report but you would think it was going to blow up by the codes and alarms until I replaced the faulty guage.


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## TidewateR (Nov 11, 2009)

Pair Marine builds a pretty 21 (although I’m not a fan of engine brackets due to hull slap). We find that our tarpon don’t like noise.

With Parker, May Craft, Maritime Skiff, C-Hawk etc..keep an eye out for wet wood, unless buying relatively new. Love their lines though..esp C-Hawk.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Half Shell said:


> My opinions go a little the commonly repeated guidance...


A lot of good information there Half Shell. 
Personally I don't like when people say "I'm looking for a 16-20ft boat." Because length really length doesn't mean much other than what you pay for dock fees or what fits in your garage. There are 30ft boats that are faster than 16ft boats with the same horsepower. 
Tell me what you want to use it for, how much you want to spend, how fast you want to go. That should determine the length, not the other way around. 
a 24-26 panga would be way better than every boat I listed above, code less, and use less hp, but I didn't list it because the OP said 15-20ft.


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## Shallows (Mar 29, 2020)

LowHydrogen said:


> Jesus, that is one weird looking boat.


The whole point of that stubby aluminum boat design is probably to have the most offshore capable boat - balanced with the lightest weight possible for fuel efficiency, cost of fuel is extremely high there. Just guessing though.


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## Shallows (Mar 29, 2020)

fpjeepy said:


> a 24-26 panga would be way better than every boat I listed above, code less, and use less hp, but I didn't list it because the OP said 15-20ft.


That Mexican fisherman survived over a year lost deep in the Pacific ocean on a Panga 25 - amazing boats.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

fpjeepy said:


> A lot of good information there Half Shell.
> Personally I don't like when people say "I'm looking for a 16-20ft boat." Because length really length doesn't mean much other than what you pay for dock fees or what fits in your garage. There are 30ft boats that are faster than 16ft boats with the same horsepower.
> Tell me what you want to use it for, how much you want to spend, how fast you want to go. That should determine the length, not the other way around.
> a 24-26 panga would be way better than every boat I listed above, code less, and use less hp, but I didn't list it because the OP said 15-20ft.


I believe that I have stated this already, but for summary purposes I will reiterate my “wants”.

I stated 17-20’ because I want a boat that is easy to trailer, launch, maneuver, etc. I have been in big boats, but I do not want the expense, hassle, slip, etc. that accompany bigger boats. I am not hard and fast about under 20’ but I do not want a 23 contender because it is a big boat for what I am doing with it.
I plan on using the boat for:
1-Beach tarpon fly fishing 10-30 days a year
This is the really reason I want it. I will trailer it to Mansfield, South Padre, Port A, etc. when the weather is right. The boat needs to be maneuverable in order to chance tarpon on light tippet.
2- I know that if I have a seaworthy boat I will take the family snapper fishing with conventional tackle within 10-15 miles when weather permits.
3-I might even fish conventional tackle in the bays
4- use it as a transport for kayaks ( I know some great spots that this would work like a charm). Anchor in 2-3 feet of water and paddle to the skinning water.
5- we all want a boat to go 60mph with 10mpg, but that is not realistic.
My experience leads me to believe that I can find a boat that will cruise at 35+ and get pretty good mpgs.

I do not want a big boat to fish for Pelagics 100 miles offshore (I love it, but I am not interested at this time).

these conversation widen my interest list and then narrow it. Right now I have my eye on a 20’ Seacraft. I know that there is no such thing as a perfect boat, but I know that the collective knowledge of this community can help me with my pursuit.

thanks for everyone’s input,
Mike


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

TidewateR said:


> With Parker, May Craft, Maritime Skiff, C-Hawk etc..keep an eye out for wet wood, unless buying relatively new. Love their lines though..esp C-Hawk.


Not familiar with the Maritime but the others do have nice lines. They remind me of my '79 Sea Ox.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Mike Geer said:


> I believe that I have stated this already, but for summary purposes I will reiterate my “wants”.
> 
> I stated 17-20’ because I want a boat that is easy to trailer, launch, maneuver, etc. I have been in big boats, but I do not want the expense, hassle, slip, etc. that accompany bigger boats. I am not hard and fast about under 20’ but I do not want a 23 contender because it is a big boat for what I am doing with it.
> I plan on using the boat for:
> ...


I don't think larger boats are harder to maneuver. Twins are easier than singles. Single outboard easier than single inboard. Wide flat boat easier than narrow deep vee. For trailering and launching length doesn't make much difference. Weight is more important. As for expense, new 20ft will be cheaper than a 23ft in the same make model, but there are too many other variables. I think horsepower associates with price better than length. 

I think for tarpon fly fishing you would want a flats boat, but I wouldn't feel safe 15 miles out in a flats boat. Weather changes too fast. 

Cruising 35+ is very fast in my opinion. In my neck of the woods there are only a handful of days a year that a 20ft boat can do 35+ offshore. In a boat that size 90% of your time is going to be 15-20 knots. And as half shell said the most important thing to be able to do that is swinging a big prop. Suzuki DF60AV 

All that said 20' seacraft is a great boat.


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## privateer (Dec 6, 2013)

I’ve fished out of a 19’ Panga Marine a few times and was very impressed. It’s a bit narrow but a great seaworthy boat. 

If I ever win the lottery, I’m buying a 23 Albury.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm not saying it's a perfect boat for your needs but for easy to trailer/launch skinny tarpon boat that goes out 15-20 miles on the right days and won't beat you to death, you could do worse than my Egret Moccasin 210.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

I think the above would be a great fit. Also one of my favorite boats. Only problem Belize fly makes them custom for their own guide service, and doesn't sell them.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

@fpjeepy - how long is that panga?

The W-23II here looks similar: http://www.bayoutobluewater.com/models-and-specifications.html


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> @fpjeepy - how long is that panga?
> 
> The W-23II here looks similar: http://www.bayoutobluewater.com/models-and-specifications.html


23' They look very similar to me, but I was told they make them themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if they just popped a mold off of the W-23II


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Yeah, Imemsa in Mexico makes the hull and Bayou to Bluewater built that layout I posted. Pretty slick IMHO


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Yeah, Imemsa in Mexico makes the hull and Bayou to Bluewater built that layout I posted. Pretty slick IMHO


Agreed. 
I'm cheap so I'd save the money and do it myself like this guy did.


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

LowHydrogen said:


> 92 and older


My 93 is an old Mako before the trouble.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Atlas 21 Pompano. Pretty salty.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Not mine, but very similar mods to the 17 Aquasport I owned years ago.

https://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/d/gulf-breeze-1978-aquasport-170-rebuilt/7142573212.html


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Zika said:


> Not mine, but very similar mods to the 17 Aquasport I owned years ago.
> 
> https://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/d/gulf-breeze-1978-aquasport-170-rebuilt/7142573212.html


I called and emailed the guy and he did not answer. I really like this little boat.

mike


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

I did, too. Posted 19 days ago. That's a long time in today's crazy market.


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## Lowtidelowlife (Aug 19, 2014)

Mike Geer said:


> I called and emailed the guy and he did not answer. I really like this little boat.
> 
> mike


You still looking at that 20 Seacraft?


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Lowtidelowlife said:


> You still looking at that 20 Seacraft?


You know I found a totally redone 1985 Seacraft 20. Although I really like it; it has issues. Not sure what I am going to do. I have a friend going to Orange Beach/Ono Island next week; close to where a 1978 Aquasport 17 is for sale. I really like the look of the 17 Aquasport and thought that my buddy could look at it while he is over there and then I would make the guy an offer.

mike


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## Lowtidelowlife (Aug 19, 2014)

Mike Geer said:


> You know I found a totally redone 1985 Seacraft 20. Although I really like it; it has issues. Not sure what I am going to do. I have a friend going to Orange Beach/Ono Island next week; close to where a 1978 Aquasport 17 is for sale. I really like the look of the 17 Aquasport and thought that my buddy could look at it while he is over there and then I would make the guy an offer.
> 
> mike


is that the boat you sent me? What were the issues with it?


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Lowtidelowlife said:


> is that the boat you sent me? What were the issues with it?


yep. No storage, I mean zero. No seating. No rod storage. Wondering why no one in South FL has moved on it.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

@Mike Geer - check out this Seacraft: https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/baytown-1972-seacraft-19-foot-center/7153514146.html

You're in Texas right? If you buy it my finders fee is simply being a fishing partner sometime.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> @Mike Geer - check out this Seacraft: https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/baytown-1972-seacraft-19-foot-center/7153514146.html
> 
> You're in Texas right? If you buy it my finders fee is simply being a fishing partner sometime.


thx, well worth the finders fee if it works out

mike


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Mike, I checked out this beauty last week in Crystal River. Solid refurb, the transom is poured Arjay, stringers glass and new fuel tank, etc. Not a single piece of wood. My wife wants shade and just a bit bigger boat.









1967 Aquasport Flatback 222 - boats - by owner - marine sale


Classic Restored Aquasport 222. Restoration from stringers up with poured transom and all...



sarasota.craigslist.org


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

My apologies for reviving an old post...

I have a friend that is looking for something similar and reached out to me and I felt like I couldn't get him a great answer. Where he lives in New England it's always rough. Water is cold and deep.

What would you guys suggest? 
Tohatsu 60hp (lightest 3 cyc) 
Minimum 20mph cruise
High gunnels 
Sharp bow to cut through chop
Minimum seating for two


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> 92 and older


Some of the '93s are fine. Hulls that were in progress immediately following Hurricane Andrew would still be from the time during which Mako was still family owned.

My 181 was a 1993 and towards the end of the "classic" period.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

What would you guys suggest?
Tohatsu 60hp (lightest 3 cyc)
Minimum 20mph cruise
High gunnels
Sharp bow to cut through chop
Minimum seating for two


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

Abaco Backwater 18 (panga) but with a Mercury ProXS115. Motor weighs the same as a 90. I wouldn't want anything less than 18' outside the inlet.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

fpjeepy said:


> Tohatsu 60hp





Half Shell said:


> Abaco Backwater 18


Not within the prompt, but I like the boat. More flats boat than what I'm looking for tho.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

The problem you are going to run into is a 60hp pushing an offshore hull. Deadrise needs more HP than a flat stern. Its not just about speed, you also want enough thrust to handle transiting an inlet or control the boat in a sudden storm. A panga is an easy to push hull shape that handles chop or swell in a head sea and doesn't need a lot of HP.

If you are looking for a true CC style boat in small package... the Albury Brothers 18.5 is where I would start but you need more than a 60HP.

Another option for seaworthy offshore on low power is a small downeast style hull. I don't know anything about Ellis boats but this what I'm talking about... recommended power is 70HP, 20ft long, and will be better offshore than any poling skiff on this website.









The Ellis 20 - Ellis Boat Company


The Ellis 20, designed and built by Ellis Boat Company, has proven to be fast, fuel-efficient, and seaworthy. Easy to trailer - ideal for lakes and harbors.




ellisboat.com


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Half Shell said:


> The problem you are going to run into is a 60hp pushing an offshore hull. Deadrise needs more HP than a flat stern. Its not just about speed, you also want enough thrust to handle transiting an inlet or control the boat in a sudden storm. A panga is an easy to push hull shape that handles chop or swell in a head sea and doesn't need a lot of HP.
> 
> If you are looking for a true CC style boat in small package... the Albury Brothers 18.5 is where I would start but you need more than a 60HP.
> 
> ...


I agree deadrise consumes more HP and a panga would fit the bill pretty well. I also think that Albury 18.5 is a very salty boat for what it is. I disagree that more than 60hp is needed. I couldn't find any performance numbers online, but the Crouch speed formula would predict the AB 18.5 does 38knots WOT w/ 115hp, and 28knots WOT w/ 60hp (weight=3000lbs c=190). Planning speed for a boat that length is 12-15knots. So I would suspect a 20knot cruise would still be pretty economical. Additionally, the reason American boats have lots of HP is not to navigate inlets, it's to go fast. Being educated on how to navigate an inlet is much more important. Sail and steam vessels navigated inlets successfully with a tiny fraction of what modern boats have. 

I think you are very correct about the Ellis boats. Very salty.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

That's a 16ft from Australia with a 60hp. Looks pretty salty. Not my style, but might get the job done. 30knot WOT 18knot cruise.


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Really ugly, but fits the bill.

mike


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

fpjeepy said:


> Additionally, the reason American boats have lots of HP is not to navigate inlets, it's to go fast. Being educated on how to navigate an inlet is much more important. Sail and steam vessels navigated inlets successfully with a tiny fraction of what modern boats have.



For the majority of people what you said about high HP is very true but not the reason I said it. It sounds like you know what you want though and all you need to do is find it.


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

The problem is finding it.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)




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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

Surffshr said:


> View attachment 158964


#micropenis


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

Surffshr said:


> View attachment 158964


That would be the one I would want, and I could even take Andrew.😁


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## fpjeepy (Jun 24, 2016)

My friend has a set of molds for a 25cc. I did a little test modeling. 18" out of the middle and pieced it back together, Length is closer to 24' now. The beam is 7'. With carbon/innegra over foam and a very simple layout, I think it could be built under 2000lbs bare boat. With a 60hp Tohatsu on Bob's kicker jac, I think it would make 30-35mph.


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