# Building a Fly Leader...



## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

Hey Hammer. Looking at your formula I am not surprised you dont catch many redfish on your fly rod. You dont need a "shock" tippett for redfish. You possibly need a little longer leader with a much lighter tippett. I do 5' of 40# mono, 1.5' of 30# mono, 1.5' of 20# mono, then I choose my tippett size usually 10 or 12lb mono at around 2' long. For winter time reds in the lagoon (super spooky) I will make the leader a little longer and use an 8# mono tippett. Try that out. Hope it helps.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> Hey Hammer. Looking at your formula I am not surprised you dont catch many redfish on your fly rod. You dont need a "shock" tippett for redfish. You possibly need a little longer leader with a much lighter tippett. I do 5' of 40# mono, 1.5' of 30# mono, 1.5' of 20# mono, then I choose my tippett size usually 10 or 12lb mono at around 2' long. For winter time reds in the lagoon (super spooky) I will make the leader a little longer and use an 8# mono tippett. Try that out. Hope it helps.


While I appreciate the suggestion, there is no way 8-12# mono is gonna hold up where I fish. Too many oysters and shell bottoms. I just won't do it. However, I will consider adding a piece of 20# mono before the flouro.  

Whatcha got for a 5wt formula? That's what I'm really interested in anyway.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

In the oyster creeks, I run a single piece of 40 lb mono from the
flyline to the fly. Water clarity is minimal most of the time.
I keep 8' sections of 40 lb ande mono hanging from nails on a rack
with 1 ounce rubbercore sinkers at the bottom for a week to
straighten out the spool curves. It ain't kosher, but I'm not
trying to set any records. Just enjoying the tussle with the fish.
Even with the 40 lb leader I usually have to replace it a couple
of times each trip due to abrasions with shells. (or branches)


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I have no clue what I'm doing, and for the one time I got to use my 5wt before it broke, I tied a uni to uni fly line to about 3.5 feet of Ande 40lb mono, tied with a blood knot to about another 3.5 feet of 10lb mono. and tied my fly onto that. Rookie as heck, but it seemed to have worked. 

I had no clue what I was doing. I got stabbed on the arm on one of my attempts to cast (ouch, the hook almost went all the way in). After a few minutes I finally got a cast out to the center of the canal and worked it back only to see my rod snap about a foot off the tip. I'm guessing since it was so old it might have been dry rotted or something I don't know.


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

> > Hey Hammer. Looking at your formula I am not surprised you dont catch many redfish on your fly rod. You dont need a "shock" tippett for redfish. You possibly need a little longer leader with a much lighter tippett. I do 5' of 40# mono, 1.5' of 30# mono, 1.5' of 20# mono, then I choose my tippett size usually 10 or 12lb mono at around 2' long. For winter time reds in the lagoon (super spooky) I will make the leader a little longer and use an 8# mono tippett. Try that out. Hope it helps.
> 
> 
> While I appreciate the suggestion, there is no way 8-12# mono is gonna hold up where I fish. Too many oysters and shell bottoms. I just won't do it. However, I will consider adding a piece of 20# mono before the flouro.
> ...


For your 5wt try using the foumula I mentioned above, but go 30#, 20#, 10#, and an 8# tippett. Thats what I have been using on my 5 and 6wts and seem to work well enough.


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## Gator_Bob (Jun 26, 2007)

Regardless of the type of leader for 8wt or 5wt, make sure that the leader begins with mono that is 75% of the fly line. You will notice a difference in preformance. You will have to use a mic on each line.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> You will have to use a mic on each line.


A micrometer? For making leaders?


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm glad to see there's so much interest in this topic. Obviously, it's clear that opinions are gonna be all over the place.  ;D From a totally level, heavy duty leader like Brett uses, to a high-stealth four piece taper like Aaron's, to Gator's high precision version. Let's keep em coming...it's all good stuff.  

I want to add one comment about the Mason Hard Mono that I use. If you've never checked it out, you should. If you compare it to the same weight in conventional mono, you'll see it's thicker, clearer and a lot stiffer. It allows you to use lighter material in your leader, while still transferring energy and returning to a straightened state as well as other heavier lines. I'd bet the 30lb mason is stiffer than regular  40lb mono.

Here's a picture I took of two pieces of 30lb mono. The top is "standard" line, the bottom is Mason.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

good reading:

http://www.shallowwaterangler.com/in_the_loop/0809_flyfishing_building_flats_leaders/


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> good reading:
> 
> http://www.shallowwaterangler.com/in_the_loop/0809_flyfishing_building_flats_leaders/


That is helpful Brett.  Tomorrow I'm gonna go thru each of my leaders and check each joint between every section for excess "hinging". That may well reveal the 5wt problem, and maybe even improve the 8/9wt leader.


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

On the hinging part. The best knot to use is the blood knot for attaching you tapered sections. Although the double surgeon knot is easier to tie, it does hinge. The hinge hampers the energy traveling down the leader, preventing it from unrolling. But, I am sure that article mentioned that so I am prob. repeating something.

Only adding after I read the article: Hammer. Notice what he said about using mason hard mono for leaders. That is all.


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## flatbroke (Oct 4, 2008)

As for a formula there are soo many things that have to come into play for different enviroments. I always follow the guide lines set up by the IGFA. The only thing that is a MUST! is that what ever you are building each new section needs to match the rigidity of the connecting sections so you get a smooth roll out of your fly. If you go from say an 80# butt section to a 4# tippet section you will in fact create a hinge at the connection point allowing the leader to collapse on itself. I sometimes use a softer butt section like soft mono and then use a hard nylon tippet if I am trying to make a drastic drop in tests. For redfish if fishing with 12# tippet and a 9# flyrod I start with 30# hard nylon then go to 20# then to a5# then 12# ending up at with a 9 to 12 foot leader depending on the situation. (shorter for oysters or staind water and longer for clear flats or spooky fish) Again make sure the butt section of your leader matches the flexibility of the point it is attached to the fly line at!!!!!!!! Fi all else fails use pre tapered leaders. Also if you are worried about oyseters an want to use a shock leader use Masons hard nylon and drop down in size. You are not looking for the break strength you are looking for the abrasion level of the line so 15# Mason is equal to 30# mono... Good luck.


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## jgstephenson (Nov 14, 2008)

If you are looking for nice soft presentations to spooky fish; check out the many freshwater leader recipies...search on line...many out there. Think about the lenghth of the leader you can handle when casting.

If you want to refine things, you need to go by diameter and not just by weights of leader and tippet materials. 

Adding a bite tippet to the end of the progression will not hurt if you are building a simple leader, but it may hinge due to the diameter changes in more complex; more gradually tapered leader.

Blood knot is the way to go....remeber to allow for the closing of the knot as you measure.....yes, you should measure; some leader designs have 6" and even 4" lengths. For salt; probably not. 

Moisten liberally with saliva as you go.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> Only adding after I read the article: Hammer. Notice what he said about using mason hard mono for leaders. That is all.


I hear ya man...I read that too.  :-/ I will say this...the Mason lines were recommended to me by a fly shop guy that has given me other great advice, and I think if I was using the same weight mason to replace the same weight mono, it would be more of an issue. Everyone seems to like 40lb mono to start an 8/9wt butt, which is why I think my starting with 30lb mason makes it work so well.  

Anyway, I spent several hours this morning connecting lengths of line and rolling them between my fingers to figure out a "hingless" transition from an 8wt fly line to a 20lb flouro tippet. (I did find that my previous formula had one weak transition) I then went out and yard cast it to see how it worked. I still have to wet test it, but here's what I settled on for an 8wt leader;

Butt Section: 5' of 30lb Mason Hard Mono
Mid Section 1: 18" of 25lb Mason Hard Mono
Mid Section 2: 18" of 30lb Redwolf Mono (it's less stiff and smaller than the mason)
Tippet: 24" Seaguar Flourocarbon
Knots: All Blood Knots except for the fly line to butt, which is a Nail Knot.

Oh, and somewhere along the way I picked up an extra 15' of casting distance.  Not sure when that happened, it's been months since I measured, but I'll take it. ;D

Now I've gotta do the same thing for the 5wt. I already noticed that the fly line to butt connection is weak, as well as the last tippet knot. I'll post whatever formula I get worked out, so you all can criticize accordingly.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

As promised, I said I would post whatever 5wt fly leader formula I decided on. Well, this morning I got a chance to pond fish for awhile and test out the leader. I'm very happy with it, initially. Here's what I did;

Butt: 5' of 30lb Redwolf Mono
Midsection 1: 18" of 20lb Trilene Mono
Midsection 2: 18" of 14lb Mustad Mono
Tippet: 24" of 10lb Seaguar Fluorocarbon

Even though they say not to mix brands, this is what I had on hand, so it's what I used.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Now the question is: Was it worth it or would you rather buy a $4 tapered leader?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Nah, I'll finish using the remaining 300 plus yards,
of 40lb Ande I have left. The k-mart sticker on it reads $3.99

;D


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> Now the question is: Was it worth it or would you rather buy a $4 tapered leader?


Well, just the knowledge of how to go about designing and building a tapered leader has tremendous value. The technique could be applied to leaders of any size and could truly make or break a trip, if you happened to be somewhere remote and destroyed your last store-bought leader.

I will agree that a pre-made leader is probably easier, but if we were doing this because it was easy, we wouldn't be using fly rods would we? ;D


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Reading old articles on line,
read this one and it made me laugh...

HaMm3r, this one's for you,
middle of the page...you'll know it when you read it.

;D

http://ambergriscaye.com/pages/town/fishingarticles2.html


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## GAfly01 (Jun 4, 2007)

I originally lived in North Georgia and guided part time for trout. First of all your question is somewhat loaded. You also have to consider what type of flies you will be primarily using. If you plan on using weighted nymphs then you will need a different leader construction than if you are throwing dry flies. If you are looking at using your five weight in the salt, then just scale everything down. Once you get the hang of a five weight, I think you will be suprised at what you can throw with it. Small deer hair bass bugs are not out of the question. You can even throw some large flies if they are constructed with synthetics. Hope this helps. Search online for leader formulas. You will find more information than you will ever need.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> Reading old articles on line,
> read this one and it made me laugh...
> 
> HaMm3r, this one's for you,
> ...


 ;D So...you're saying I should quit screwing around and just go with 10' of 100# mono? 

Oh, and for the record, my leader formulas rock! I haven't changed em a bit since coming up with them.


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## jgstephenson (Nov 14, 2008)

I am not sure I understand the mystery or the need to invent your own leader formulas....


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> I am not sure I understand the mystery or the need to invent your own leader formulas...


It's flyfishing, you're trying to make sense of the world's most complicated handline. 
Catching fish got too easy, so...someone figured out a way to make it harder.
Then made arbitrary rules to complicate it further! That's what you end up with
when you make decisions by committee. Probably the same committee that
wrote our current tax laws.

                                        ;D


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> I am not sure I understand the mystery or the need to invent your own leader formulas....


Neither do I.  Still, I had the desire to learn something new about a sport that I love. Sure, I could have copied someone else's formula or bought leaders at a store, but where's the challenge in that? :

In truth, when I switched to an extreme distance fly line with its thick, stiff and heavy body, the leader formula I was using just wasn't a good match for it. As a result, I now have the know-how to create a leader that will function well with any line I buy.


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## jgstephenson (Nov 14, 2008)

If you are basically just trying to get a good turn over on relatively heavy streamer type flies....then most anything with a stiff butt section and smooth taper from there on down will do.

For more delicate presentation you have to pay more attention.
Yes; a way to measure the diameter really is needed and yes there are many many proven recipies out there.

fun to experiment though.


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