# Broke my old Sage II



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Fly fishing at my daughter's pond yesterday.caught a bass while bring it in it wrapped on a stick and when i pulled the tip broke
I called The Fish Hawk, and authorize deal and Gary to me for an old rod it would be $140 to send back. Great lifetime warranty
So what do they do? Fix it. I hope not. Heck i can fix it
So what?
Its my 6/7 weight that i have used many years and caught a ton of fish on it


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

When you contact Sage directly you'll learn that their new "warranty policy" for older rods isn't exactly what all of us came to expect... One alternative is to haunt E-Bay for used Sage rods -you might get lucky and find the exact model you've broken... I still have three or four Sage rods (old models all) but doubt that I'll ever be doing much business with them when other outfits still actually have pretty good warranty programs...


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

A fellow in walnut grove might can fix it. Makes bamboo rods and does graphite repairs. Used to work at the Fishhawk. I will see if he still does repairs. Since the investment group acquired sage things have changed.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

flysalt060 said:


> A fellow in walnut grove might can fix it. Makes bamboo rods and does graphite repairs. Used to work at the Fishhawk. I will see if he still does repairs. Since the investment group acquired sage things have changed.


Thanks flysalt I live just south of Walnut Grove
I may send it back to Sage or get it fixed.
I'm calling them tomorrow to see what they say


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## Cliff (Oct 13, 2016)

I have sent two Sage rods back in the past 11 months. A 9 wt Sage One-3 years old. Cost to fix-$60.00. The second was a 4 wt "Light Line" that I bought in 1984. The Light Line has been repaired a half dozen times I guess. This time I lost the tip on the Madison River in September (don't ask). Cost to repair -$120.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Should things not work out... You could always start a new hobby. 

I made this in the early 80's because I wanted to graduate from using a book to meter the thread tension and just resting my elbows on the kitchen table when wrapping a rod. The wood and plastic were left overs from another project. The round goodies I got from the hardware store (sliding door wheels which come w/bearing) then fitted an o-ring on the wheel. Right now two need replacing if their light oil bath doesn't free em up real smooth like the others. (I'm getting ready to repair an old fly rod that got stepped on)

















I also have a "rod turner" I made using a rotisserie barbecue motor.
You can get graphite blanks for under $100 to sages which start around $400+.....
Also there are complete rod kits available for those who are not sure what all you might need to produce a rod. catching fish on flies you tied is real cool and doing it with a rod you made is too.


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## Bonefish486 (Jul 9, 2018)

I broke an old sage 12wt I had last year and sage sent me back a blank that cost me $140


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I don't see a problem with Sage warranty program and I wouldn't have a problem with a lost section from an early 80's rod only costing $120 to get going again. But yea, if you just think that sending a company $35 for them to grab another overseas made rod off the rack is your idea of how warranty programs are supposed to be done then by all means. Keep in mind those rod are imported, completely built for around what their "warranty fee" is. That is why they ask no questions when the grab a new one off the wall and margins are 90%


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## johnmauser (Sep 9, 2009)

For an older rod, they are probably pulling an old mandrel out and custom making you your section, painting it a color they no longer use, and wrapping it with thread they no longer use on their current line of rods. I doubt they're making a bunch of money off the replacement piece.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I called Sage and they said my 30 year old rod was made before the lifetime warranty and only had a warranty. That meant no luck. They said i could send it in but they might just send it back
i sent an email today to see how much a nano IM 12 would be from overseas. Probably where Sage gets theirs


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## Tailer (Jan 10, 2017)

nativejax said:


> I don't see a problem with Sage warranty program and I wouldn't have a problem with a lost section from an early 80's rod only costing $120 to get going again. But yea, if you just think that sending a company $35 for them to grab another overseas made rod off the rack is your idea of how warranty programs are supposed to be done then by all means. Keep in mind those rod are imported, completely built for around what their "warranty fee" is. That is why they ask no questions when the grab a new one off the wall and margins are 90%


While I agree with your general point (I see no issue with Sage's program either), it's disingenuous to imply that the only rods with better warranty service are imports. Winston and Scott are two brands that I own that I can think of off the top of my head that are built in the US and have warranty replacement fees under $100. I have had warranty work done through Scott and it cost $50 total with return shipping.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Tailer said:


> While I agree with your general point (I see no issue with Sage's program either), it's disingenuous to imply that the only rods with better warranty service are imports. Winston and Scott are two brands that I own that I can think of off the top of my head that are built in the US and have warranty replacement fees under $100. I have had warranty work done through Scott and it cost $50 total with return shipping.


I wasn't implying anything, I was directly speaking about a manufacture that charges $35 for a warranty service and is an imported rod that they can just grab off the shelf. I have dealt with numerous manufactures that have USA built rods and their warranty replacements are under $100 as well. You mentioned two and the other is Sage just as mentioned above for less than $100.


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## johnmauser (Sep 9, 2009)

permitchaser said:


> i sent an email today to see how much a nano IM 12 would be from overseas. Probably where Sage gets theirs


...or Bainbridge Island, Washington.


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## Ferrulewax (Mar 19, 2018)

I for one am not mad at sages new warranty policy at all. I recently sent back at RPL+, cost me 125$ plus shipping. Expensive, yes, but the rod (broken in second section) was completely redone. It had new cork, a new reelseat, and either all new sections, or at least new epoxy work, as it was completely scratch free.

One thing to keep in mind is that Sages new warranty is totally dependent upon the rods age. For rods still being produced, I believe it is 25$. No one in the industry is this cheap, particularly not for USA made models. Models discontinued in the last 10 years are 75$, which is right in line with most warranty costs, and then rods that have been discontinued over 10 years ago are 125.

This gives people with more recent models, such as guides, low replacement fees, which is nice. It also stimulates sales of new rods, helping fly-shops and dealers.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Y'all can say what you want -but if you bought rods from Sage years ago and they've decided to change the terms you bought them under.... it gets your attention, period.

I'm a practical guy who needs rods for his anglers - I'm still perfectly capable of building my own rods - and do for everything other than fly rods since I just can't replace one quickly enough when I have a broken stick and bookings coming... I know exactly what's involved to build or repair any rod (I did my first rod in 1971...) and I know it's been onerous for Sage to live up to their stated obligations. Make any excuses you want - put down rods being built cheaply overseas... I have a bit different perspective.

By the way - not too long ago (this past year) Thomas & Thomas said they'd gladly make me a new tip section for my old (more than 20 years old...) 12wt Horizon tarpon rod. All I needed to do was send them the last 10" of that old tip section (the butt end) and a check for about 70 bucks... That's service - for a rod long, long out of production.... I've been busy -but I'll be sending them what they need before my next winter tarpon season -then gladly re-wrapping it to spec.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

There is no question there is a huge difference between Sage's old or original warranty and what it is now. There is a long string on this somewhere else on Microskiff. I had long conversatiins with Sage when i had 3 rods to return. I feel Sage is disingenuous. In the end they fixed one for free because they mischarged on on one of the others. Very convoluted. We all understood when paying a large amount for a fly rod we were probably paying for the warranty reolacement rod. Sage has lost me.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I am sending mine back this week. If I get the run around I'm buying a new rod
Already have an email to purchase a Japanese nano IM 12, 10',7wt.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

lemaymiami said:


> Y'all can say what you want -but if you bought rods from Sage years ago and they've decided to change the terms you bought them under.... it gets your attention, period.
> 
> I'm a practical guy who needs rods for his anglers - I'm still perfectly capable of building my own rods - and do for everything other than fly rods since I just can't replace one quickly enough when I have a broken stick and bookings coming... I know exactly what's involved to build or repair any rod (I did my first rod in 1971...) and I know it's been onerous for Sage to live up to their stated obligations. Make any excuses you want - put down rods being built cheaply overseas... I have a bit different perspective.
> 
> By the way - not too long ago (this past year) Thomas & Thomas said they'd gladly make me a new tip section for my old (more than 20 years old...) 12wt Horizon tarpon rod. All I needed to do was send them the last 10" of that old tip section (the butt end) and a check for about 70 bucks... That's service - for a rod long, long out of production.... I've been busy -but I'll be sending them what they need before my next winter tarpon season -then gladly re-wrapping it to spec.


Not making any excuses for anyone, simply stating facts based on business and warranty procedures. It is easier for a company who imports rods for considerably less money to pull a new one off the shelf and send it to you. That is just a fact, no need to have hurt feelings. It is harder to take a 20yr old rod, pull the mandrel, have an employee make the section to fit and get it out the door than it is for that same employee to just send a new rod. I am like you and build almost everything I fish with but do purchase some fly rods. Just speaking of my experience as a customer as well as someone who works in the rod industry.

Also, by the way, that T&T you speak of is a very different company than it was 3 years ago before the change in ownership. I am glad they took care of you, but for a number of years they were in very bad shape.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

nativejax said:


> Not making any excuses for anyone, simply stating facts based on business and warranty procedures. It is easier for a company who imports rods for considerably less money to pull a new one off the shelf and send it to you. That is just a fact, no need to have hurt feelings. It is harder to take a 20yr old rod, pull the mandrel, have an employee make the section to fit and get it out the door than it is for that same employee to just send a new rod. I am like you and build almost everything I fish with but do purchase some fly rods. Just speaking of my experience as a customer as well as someone who works in the rod industry.
> 
> Also, by the way, that T&T you speak of is a very different company than it was 3 years ago before the change in ownership. I am glad they took care of you, but for a number of years they were in very bad shape.


Not to mention they have to replicate the materials and layup process they were using twenty or so years ago, it’s amazing they can still do it.
JC


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Should have bought T&T rods years ago rather than my 3 Sage


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Remember that I've been building and repairing rods since 1971 - and I'm well aware of all that goes into making blanks. Gatorglass, locally, was my blank builder back when all of us built with fiberglass... and Gus would make stuff to my specs or wishes with an extra layer of this or that, sanded or un-sanded (my preference)... He was even willing to show me each step from initial wrapping with pre-preg materials (cloth) all the down to pulling the mandrel and doing the center-less water bath sanding....

I haven't complained when Sage - doing a warranty replacement (one of many headed my way over the years...) sent me rods with a pre-shaped ready made cork grip (the original was a carefully glued up ring by ring handle that was lathe turned on the blank -and yes, there is a difference....).

I understand business models -and have learned enough about the tackle business to want to stay out of it (beyond the mild involvement I've had over the years as a rodbuilder, lure maker, commercial fly tyer, etc.). Yes, Sage has done what they had to do. Let's leave it at that...


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Sent my rod back to Sage today and said in the letter it looks like a defect. It really does, not a clean break but a split then long piece on one side
i have a new rod that i may order soon. I have no hope that Sage will do the right thing they'll probably just send it back. I should know something by next week


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## Scrather (Mar 12, 2018)

I was on Bainbridge Island last week and fished a half day with a guide based near there. I talked to him about Sage and that I’d heard their warrantee wasn’t what it used to be. He told me he loves Sage and that he can walk in with a broken section and they often give him a replacement while he waits. Last year I sent a rod in to TFO that I bought new but never registered. I can still hear that nice Texas twang of the woman who answered when I called about the warrantee repair saying “oh don’t you worry honey, send it right in and we’ll fix it for you”. My point is don’t just email, give Sage a call, sometimes speaking with a live human makes all the difference.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Every time i call they say " no mas". So i sent it in to see what they say. I'm not holding my breath


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## tunataker (Jul 8, 2018)

I am afraid that Lifetime Warranty means different things. I have an old Heliply 12# that developed a problem with the reel seat. The rod must be 20 years old and it is a 3 piece. I also asked about my 10# which they took many weeks to replace the tip many years ago. I actually have several HP's which I love. It is getting more difficult to travel with these so I was considering to get 4 piece rods. After calling Scott Fly Rods I know what brand will not be my next rod. I just heard excuses. I was told I did not register the first rod. Then I was told the other rod's serial number is so old that it is not on the system in spite of their website guaranteeing rods with serial numbers over 35000. Now I am faced with the only option of paying them to repair these two rods. It was a lot easier to replace an old Loomis GLX a few years ago. I understand being charged a fee but according to Scott a butt section replacement is $275 and a mid section replacement is $100 before shipping is added.


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## Scrather (Mar 12, 2018)

Ouch tunataker! I’ve bought a few used Scott’s but might need to rethink adding more. I have to say that dealing with TFO was a pleasure and at $35 for a repair of an unregistered rod it was also a fraction of the cost.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I sent my rod back to Sage 3 weeks ago so I don’t know if that’s good or bad. I expect my broken rod to be returned any day


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Well i finally received my fly rod back from Sage. Not fixed and no new rod. There was a note saying that they don't have any parts for old rods, my sereial # starts with F. They aslo said the wanted me to have my rod back that I've caught over 30 spices with. Well it's not catching any more.
I'm going to get another 7 wt. After Christmas.
I hate to be without a 7 wt. that I have used a lot over the years both fresh and salt


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## paulrad (May 10, 2016)

Broke my Meridian a couple weeks ago. Scott wants 150$ for repair (new top section). Supposedly if I had filled out the warranty card it would have been 50$. I'm slightly annoyed, and I'm somewhat inclined to not buy a Scott again. No experience with Sage warranty, but I have had stellar service from GLoomis.


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## SC Bill (Jul 22, 2017)

Warranties...the details are in the fine print. Further, expressed and/or implied warranties such as Sage's 1990 "Limited Lifetime Warranty" will mean different things depending in what state you live.

The Federal Trade Commission does not specify what the duration of a "Limited Lifetime Warranty" should be. FTC has generally left such decision to arbitrators settling disputes between parties. But, practically speaking, expect a duration of 7 years of coverage for a "Limited Lifetime Warranty". COSTCO offers a 5 year duration on their "Limited Lifetime Warranties". 

You now ask what "Lifetime" means? This is where most people get confused. "Lifetime" is *not* _*your*_ lifetime, but rather, the reasonable useful life expectancy of a product. Many companies desiring to offer excellent customer service will warrant engineered products against defects to a period defined by mean time between failure (MTBF) and generally not charge for repairs during this period; even if you broke it while simply catching a fish.

In the 90s, Sage was gracious enough to repair broken rods at no cost, other than shipping, regardless of the rod's age. Today, Sage applies the more common definition of "Limited Lifetime Warranty" to determine cost for repairs.

I have 5 Sage rods built in late 80s, early 90.
My 1989 3 WT Light Line is still my favorite NC/TN mountain trout stream rod.
Sage repaired my 8 weight I broke in my boat down on Hurricane Flats in '99 for only shipping costs.

I've been very happy with my Sage rods and customer service over the years.

Frankly, back in the 50s, I was taught as a youngster, if I broke it, I owned it. As such, regardless of what the warranty states, if not a manufacturer defect, and it breaks during my use, I don't have an issue paying to have it fixed. Regardless of product. Now if it breaks and I don't think it should have, and the manufacturer fails to warrant the product, I will look for a new manufacturer for the same product.


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## ShugC (Apr 23, 2016)

permitchaser said:


> Well i finally received my fly rod back from Sage. Not fixed and no new rod. There was a note saying that they don't have any parts for old rods, my sereial # starts with F. They aslo said the wanted me to have my rod back that I've caught over 30 spices with. Well it's not catching any more.
> I'm going to get another 7 wt. After Christmas.
> I hate to be without a 7 wt. that I have used a lot over the years both fresh and salt


Check out CTS Affinity X Rods. I can build it exactly how you want and they are great high end fast action blanks


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## Scrather (Mar 12, 2018)

Permit, post some pics of the break...maybe someone here can repair it. If a ferrule can’t be fixed maybe it can be turned into a one piece you can still use to fish local.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Scrather said:


> Permit, post some pics of the break...maybe someone here can repair it. If a ferrule can’t be fixed maybe it can be turned into a one piece you can still use to fish local.


Ok I talked to my rod builder friend and he said no on a broken tip. I tried but so far i haven't been successful. I have some more ideas


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Did you talk to Brian that used to work for Gary?


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

flysalt060 said:


> Did you talk to Brian that used to work for Gary?


I don’t have his number


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

I don't know why but after reading your post the Jim Croce song "Operator" is playing in my head.


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## carpnasty (Apr 11, 2018)

One post i read here really stood out. In summary, if you bought a rod under a certain warranty policy, that's what you would expect to be honored when it's needed. It's part of your purchase decision when you're dropping close to a grand in a lot of cases on a rod - you want that purchase protection. Sage would've been wise to put in a policy that applies to X, Y, Z new rod models and all other models are honored by the original warranty policy. As a big Sage fan, this will give me pause on future purchases. Not because I will disagree with the policy in place at the time of purchase - because I'm ok with their new policy if i know that's what i'm getting - but because I will feel slighted by them changing policy on existing rods i own.

What are people's experience with Orvis' warranty? I ran into a guy fishing one day with a new Recon and he proceeded to tell me how he got it. He said he saw a rod tube one day while at Goodwill. It was a much older Orvis rod - one which the name i'm not even familiar with and escapes me - but he bought it for $15. Broke it in the mountains shortly thereafter and called Orvis to discuss options. They said send it in with $35 (their standard warranty fee, i believe), and they sent him a brand new Recon as a replacement. I get people wanting to maintain their original rod and have it repaired. Orvis doesnt offer this option, so it's not appealing to some. However, what happened in this case is pretty damn good customer service, in my opinion.


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## SC Bill (Jul 22, 2017)

carpnasty said:


> One post i read here really stood out. In summary, if you bought a rod under a certain warranty policy, that's what you would expect to be honored when it's needed. It's part of your purchase decision when you're dropping close to a grand in a lot of cases on a rod - you want that purchase protection. Sage would've been wise to put in a policy that applies to X, Y, Z new rod models and all other models are honored by the original warranty policy. As a big Sage fan, this will give me pause on future purchases. Not because I will disagree with the policy in place at the time of purchase - because I'm ok with their new policy if i know that's what i'm getting - but because I will feel slighted by them changing policy on existing rods i own.
> 
> What are people's experience with Orvis' warranty? I ran into a guy fishing one day with a new Recon and he proceeded to tell me how he got it. He said he saw a rod tube one day while at Goodwill. It was a much older Orvis rod - one which the name i'm not even familiar with and escapes me - but he bought it for $15. Broke it in the mountains shortly thereafter and called Orvis to discuss options. They said send it in with $35 (their standard warranty fee, i believe), and they sent him a brand new Recon as a replacement. I get people wanting to maintain their original rod and have it repaired. Orvis doesnt offer this option, so it's not appealing to some. However, what happened in this case is pretty damn good customer service, in my opinion.


I still remain confused why folks feel Sage has changed their warranty policy.

Reading my warranty cards from 1986, 1988, 1991, 1995 and 2016, compared to what the warranty states today online, I read no difference in what is covered. Yes, today, Sage stipulates some warranty exceptions to their policy. Specifically, "This warranty does not cover direct, indirect, consequential, incidental, or any other type of damage resulting from the use of your Sage product. The warranty also does not cover fire, theft, missing rod sections, intentional breakage, modification or customization of the finished product."

No doubt Sage had to put those exceptions in the warranty language because some customer expected a new rod when their rod burned up, stolen or they hacked it with tools.

But, if you step on your Sage fly rod entering your boat, or it turns to ash in a house fire, do you really think Sage should fix or replace it free? I've never heard of such an expectation from any auto manufacturer to repair/replace your car free when you damage or total it.

Sage still offers lifetime repair to the original owner if any Sage rod fails at anytime due to a manufacturing defect. That's a great warranty; I challenge you you find such a warranty by any auto manufacturer and with a vehicle you're paying tens of thousands of dollars, not single Grover Cleveland note.

No doubt each of us will have our own realistic expectations; and some are no doubt unrealistic. 

A case in point, BMW Motorrad (BMW motorcycles) warranty is voided if you do not put "x" number of miles on the motorcycle in each and every year the warranty is in effect. This warranty has been upheld in court both here in the US and EU. "X" miles is a closely held secret and has not been revealed by BMW Motorrad. In other words, lack of use as defined by BMW Motorrad will invalid the warranty.

Bottom, line, if the warranty is of critical importance to you in your purchase decision, make sure you fully understand the legal implications both expressed (written) and implied (unwritten) before you purchase.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

SC Bill said:


> But, if you step on your Sage fly rod entering your boat, or it turns to ash in a house fire, do you really think Sage should fix or replace it free? I've never heard of such an expectation from any auto manufacturer to repair/replace your car free when you damage or total it.
> 
> Sage still offers lifetime repair to the original owner if any Sage rod fails at anytime due to a manufacturing defect. That's a great warranty; I challenge you you find such a warranty by any auto manufacturer and with a vehicle you're paying tens of thousands of dollars, not single Grover Cleveland note.


This. 

Fly rods are very expensive and somewhat fragile, and understandably so, we want some kind of "insurance" plan in the event that a rod meets an untimely death. 

However, I think we expect a little too much from fly rod manufacturers. I can't think of any other item which has a warranty policy quite like a modern fly rod. I wonder how much the ability to warrany/replace rods inherently affects the sale price of current fly rods.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Ok here's a picture of my fly rod tip. It shattered so I'm going to even it up and use a piece of fly line pushed into the shafts then put a piece of wire leader inside the fly line for strength. Then glue it up and wrap with thread


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Sage still offers lifetime repair to the original owner if any Sage rod fails at anytime due to a manufacturing defect. That's a great warranty
no mas!!!


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## Scrather (Mar 12, 2018)

Glue...I’m thinking G flex epoxy available at West Marine and an outside wrap with about a 2” wide of fiberglass tape with a fine, light weave. Others will know more about it than I do.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

You only broke off like a 2” piece. Clean up the piece and glue on a slightly larger tip top and proceeed to fish you prolly won’t notice a difference.


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

Here ya go!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sage-Graph...=item468bc6a408:g:B54AAOSwDJNb6FLJ:rk:10:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SAGE-GRAPH...h=item5b50a3324a:g:69wAAOSwZbVcAKF4:rk:1:pf:0


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

texasag07 said:


> You only broke off like a 2” piece. Clean up the piece and glue on a slightly larger tip top and proceeed to fish you prolly won’t notice a difference.


Talked to my friend Ron H and he's sending me some tips
Thanks for your help


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