# Hosed on Dolphin Renegade deal..



## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Kind of a long story here but I feel it's worth telling, if nothing else than to help you not make the same mistakes I did.

Picked up a cool 2001 Dolphin Renegade project hull this past weekend, no motor. Has new Awlgrip on the bottom, deck and cockpit are prepped for gelcoat.

I asked the guy before I drove over to get it, "so nothing structural at all.. transom/stringers/deck all good?" He replied 'yep everything's perfect. Just has to be finished up.' (Or something along those lines).

Everything was not perfect. This hull is entirely compromised and cracked thru the woven laminate. Stringers are completely blown out. I've actually not ever seen anything like it, as far as an entire hull cracking through like this (see pics below).

I did notice the hairline cracks on the bottom of the boat when I went to his place to inspect it. Told him they really concerned me, especially given their location below the stringers. He said it was the first he'd seen of the cracks (an outright lie, see below) and was likely due to new awlgrip and incorrect bunk placement on the trailer (it's sitting on a brand new trailer). Said they were superficial and he wouldn't worry about them in the slightest. In fact, he literally said 'don't even bother sanding them.' I had full on tunnel vision and was super excited to get the boat (you all know how that goes), so for some reason I believed him.. even though I was very nearly on the verge of driving back to St. Pete empty handed.

Anyway, next day I decide to start sanding down one of the hairline cracks. When I got thru the Awlgrip and saw the crack went into the woven, my heart sank - the hull is compromised. Cracks go all the way thru to the inside of the boat. Like I said, never seen anything like this before (see pics) and I've rebuilt a couple skiffs from the ground up.

Stuck my head down into the inspection hole that's cut out and ran a light up into the bilge.. saw that the entire length of the stringers are blown out. I foolishly did not do this at his place when I bought the boat. I stuck my head under there but didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. And based on what he'd told me about everything and how solid the deck felt under my feet, I assumed all was OK.

I'm not one to call people out. I take full responsibility for all my mistakes and completely blame myself for overlooking the obvious signs of damage to this boat. That said, it didn't help that the guy outwardly lied about not knowing about the cracks. I got in touch with the guy who had done the Awlgrip, and he said when he sanded it down for prep they were there. He told me based on cost the owner (the guy who sold it to me) decided to paint over it and use the boat as is. Fair enough, but it was still an outward lie when he told me he'd never noticed the cracks before.

Long story short, I paid $5k and am now the proud owner of a compromised Dolphin Renegade hull. It's not that I'm even so much worried about the money.. it's just that I love these dolphins and have wanted one for a long time. Was excited and looking forward to finishing it up and fishing soon. I even already bought a 60hp Yamaha 4 stroke for it, again based off the guy telling me it was structurally sound.

I tried to ensure here that I didn't jump to any assumptions in terms of saying the guy outwardly tried to burn me on the sale. That said, everything I said in the post was accurate. I do believe the owner was not fully aware of the extent of damage to the boat, but if you outwardly lie about something like that perhaps you deserve to be called out a little bit. I'd expect this kind of stuff buying a used honda civic on Craigslist, not buying a Dolphin on Microskiff from a fellow fly fisherman.

Even the glass work on the deck where the owner (or whoever) had patched up the console hole was shit. Bare resin cracked when I stepped on it and water came out. They'd also cut about an inch into the middle stringer when cutting an inspection hole in the deck out, and I could see water sitting down in there in the stringer. He'd rinsed the boat and sprayed water over an open hole in a stringer.. Really?

Anyway, rant over. Sorry for the long post. At the end of the day I take full responsibility for my actions and for deciding to buy the boat against my better judgment. Fortunately I know a thing or two about this stuff and can rebuild it. Building solid 16' skiffs does not require an advanced degree in Naval architecture (unlike Hal Chittum would have you think). Do I want to spend the time, energy, patience, and money to rebuild it? Hell no. At the end of the day it's just the dishonesty and my own foolishness that burns my chops.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Wow thanks for your post sorry you got taken. Hope it doesn't sour you on finishing the project a getting her back on the water as she deserves your love.


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## bubba110 (Oct 5, 2016)

Ya man, i hate to hear that. Hopefully you can get her going. That stringer shouldnt have any rot inside of it, so hopefully you or who ever does the fiberglass work for you can just grand back those bad spots and re-glass what is there. From your pictures it doesnt look like the hull is completely totaled, as long as the de-lamination is just in that area of the stringer. Certainly more work then it should be if you hadnt gotten hosed. 

Maybe some of these other guys can provide some more insight on fixing this in more detail. I just bought a Super Skiff not to long ago and havent started fixing it up but plan to soon. So im curious on these issues and hope I dont run into anything like it.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Did it look like the first pic when you bought it? Is the trailer actually new?


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Sue his BUTT!


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Wow thanks for your post sorry you got taken. Hope it doesn't sour you on finishing the project a getting her back on the water as she deserves your love.


Very much agreed, thanks for the response. She definitely deserves to be out there in the salt with 50 ft of fly line on her deck


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

Yikes, I have heard similar horror stories from certain members on here. That is a killer boat, my vote is to do some clean-up and restore work!


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## dingoatemebaby (Sep 14, 2011)

Sorry man that sucks


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

bubba110 said:


> Ya man, i hate to hear that. Hopefully you can get her going. That stringer shouldnt have any rot inside of it, so hopefully you or who ever does the fiberglass work for you can just grand back those bad spots and re-glass what is there. From your pictures it doesnt look like the hull is completely totaled, as long as the de-lamination is just in that area of the stringer. Certainly more work then it should be if you hadnt gotten hosed.
> 
> Maybe some of these other guys can provide some more insight on fixing this in more detail. I just bought a Super Skiff not to long ago and havent started fixing it up but plan to soon. So im curious on these issues and hope I dont run into anything like it.


Yes fortunately the laminate around the cracks is still very good quality. So (hopefully) it will just be a matter of repairing with a few layers of 1708 fiber. And then of course the floor will have to come out to rebuild the stringers, which I assume are foam cored. I did a thread a few years back of a pathfinder 15t rebuild I did, which was built similarly to this one. So hopefully the rebuild process will be pretty straightforward. Time consuming, but straightforward.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Surffshr said:


> Did it look like the first pic when you bought it? Is the trailer actually new?


Yes the first 3 pics are exactly the condition it was in when I bought it. So it had those hairline cracks and like I said in the post they very much concerned me, I was just too damn excited and probably had it in my head I was coming home with that boat even if it was in three pieces  The pics where you can see the holes in it were after I got it home the next day and did some sanding. And yes the trailer does indeed seem to be brand new


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

topnative2 said:


> Sue his BUTT!


Haha nah I'd never do anything like that.. I'm sure he's a nice guy.... to his buds. And I mean to be fair he was nice enough to me too.. even texted him the day after with the pics. Not like he was a dick at all. Just kind of rubs me the wrong way how he said he knew nothing about the cracks when apparently (according to the paint guy) he did


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Thanks for the positive replies guys. And yes the plan (at least right now) is to bite the bullet and restore her properly. Like one of you already said, she deserves it  If I do end up doing a full restore I'll be sure to post a build thread on here


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

dlpanadero said:


> Haha nah I'd never do anything like that.. I made it a point not to even mention his name or glassing business. Not trying to get overly personal. I'm sure he's a nice guy.... to his buds.


I mean the guy who sold you the boat...did you ask him for the money back?


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Well, I may be crazy but I don’t think you were hosed that bad. IF you would have known, you may have turned the deal to hose the seller. However, what is that swing in price? I mean $5k for a boat that needs cosmetics and a motor (with a new trailer) seems to be a very good deal. ESP if you aren’t flipping it. $5k for a boat that needs a deeper dive? That won’t be known until you are done, but I wouldn’t beat yourself up on it. If you do the work well, you will hold even on the money invested. I mean a new single axle aluminum trailer is approaching $2k anyhow. 

Looking forward to the rebuild. I’ve done it 1.5 times on a very popular Texas flats boat and after 15 years of ownership was out all told about $2k when I sold it last year. THAT was the trailer...


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## floridabrahmer (May 31, 2017)

Curious why those hulls are worth 5k? What year is it?


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

At the end of the day you still have a classic Hull and what looks to be a decent trailer. Boat clearly looked like a “project” in the picture. Good lesson learned for everyone. Not saying what they did was right and who knows maybe it truly was an honest error on their part.

If it makes you feel any better just go on thehulltruth and read about all the failed builds (Jupiter) and deposit issues(Barker). Those people are out 250-700k!!! One thing I’ve learned is whether I bought new or used I’d get it surveyed.

Enjoy the boat. You’re out 1-2k after you add up boat as is plus trailer. Peas and carrots compared to buying new and losing 30% driving off lot


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Well think of it as an expensive lesson. I personally don’t think you got hosed just over paid a bit. You still have a a great Hull with lots of potential and a new trailer. Just find a good glass shop and all can be corrected.


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Becuas


floridabrahmer said:


> Curious why those hulls are worth 5k? What year is it?


Because a new one is 35k plus.


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## floridabrahmer (May 31, 2017)

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Because a new one is 35k plus.


Thats when you start a conchfish build, ...


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

topnative2 said:


> I mean the guy who sold you the boat...did you ask him for the money back?


Nah didn't even bother. I got myself into this mess


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Do it up right and own it..............best served cold!


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## BrownDog (Jun 22, 2019)

You're not out that bad on this, especially knowing how to fix it yourself.

Think of it this way, you now have the hull you wanted and you likely would have found additional problems on any project boat purchased.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

This bit made me chuckle.



> This is not a project boat it just needs new power.


https://www.microskiff.com/threads/dolphin-renegade-2001-side-console-w-o-motor.42216/#post-332155


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

BrownDog said:


> Think of it this way, you now have the hull you wanted and you likely would have found additional problems on any project boat purchased.


Blown out stringer is a little more than "additional problems". Wow. This just sucks.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Surffshr said:


> Well, I may be crazy but I don’t think you were hosed that bad. IF you would have known, you may have turned the deal to hose the seller. However, what is that swing in price? I mean $5k for a boat that needs cosmetics and a motor (with a new trailer) seems to be a very good deal. ESP if you aren’t flipping it. $5k for a boat that needs a deeper dive? That won’t be known until you are done, but I wouldn’t beat yourself up on it. If you do the work well, you will hold even on the money invested. I mean a new single axle aluminum trailer is approaching $2k anyhow.
> 
> Looking forward to the rebuild. I’ve done it 1.5 times on a very popular Texas flats boat and after 15 years of ownership was out all told about $2k when I sold it last year. THAT was the trailer...


Yeah it's not an awful situation and like I said in the original post it's not even so much the $ that frustrates me. Truth be told I prolly would've jumped on it for like 4k even knowing the actual condition. Just frustrating that I thought I was looking at cosmetics and now it's a full on rebuild


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

jlindsley said:


> At the end of the day you still have a classic Hull and what looks to be a decent trailer. Boat clearly looked like a “project” in the picture. Good lesson learned for everyone. Not saying what they did was right and who knows maybe it truly was an honest error on their part.
> 
> If it makes you feel any better just go on thehulltruth and read about all the failed builds (Jupiter) and deposit issues(Barker). Those people are out 250-700k!!! One thing I’ve learned is whether I bought new or used I’d get it surveyed.
> 
> Enjoy the boat. You’re out 1-2k after you add up boat as is plus trailer. Peas and carrots compared to buying new and losing 30% driving off lot


Very well put  Yeah like I said to a previous reply I prolly would've dropped 4k on it for sure even knowing it needed full rebuild. So overpaying 1k or 1500, not a huge deal and not the end of the world. And I'll have to check out that story about the Jupiter boats haha that sounds terrible


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Well think of it as an expensive lesson. I personally don’t think you got hosed just over paid a bit. You still have a a great Hull with lots of potential and a new trailer. Just find a good glass shop and all can be corrected.


Yeah fair enough.. and I'll be doing all the work myself so that'll save thousands


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> This bit made me chuckle.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/dolphin-renegade-2001-side-console-w-o-motor.42216/#post-332155


hahaha


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

For whatever it's worth, I don't hate the stringers. The bottom repairs are pretty annoying for a boat that's recently been painted but c'est la vie. Hiding knowledge of required bottom work was pretty low. People who tinker with boats know what's going on with their project hulls.

If it makes you feel any better I have a 997 CS sitting in my garage that was represented as an accident free car with no known IMS issues. The lie detector determined that was a lie.


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

dlpanadero said:


> Very well put  Yeah like I said to a previous reply I prolly would've dropped 4k on it for sure even knowing it needed full rebuild. So overpaying 1k or 1500, not a huge deal and not the end of the world. And I'll have to check out that story about the Jupiter boats haha that sounds terrible


https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/980439-jupiter-43-hull-failing-50-hours-25.html

60+ pages of reading. No idea who was at fault in the end but looked like some serious issues on a new boat. IG account (badjupiter43) was deleted so sounds like boat manufacturer and owner came to an agreement.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

jmrodandgun said:


> This bit made me chuckle.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/dolphin-renegade-2001-side-console-w-o-motor.42216/#post-332155



Is there a newer for sale thread showing how the boat was represented? The one in the link is from 2016. Apparently a lot happened to the hull in the last 3 years. Our little community should be better than this.


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## NativeBone (Aug 16, 2017)

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/dolphin-renegade-project-hull.67914/


el9surf said:


> Is there a newer for sale thread showing how the boat was represented? The one in the link is from 2016. Apparently a lot happened to the hull in the last 3 years. Our little community should be better than this.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Given my history... I'm pretty cynical (but still getting caught believing something I shouldn't from time to time..). 

How do you know you're being told a story (keeping it polite - there might be kids reading this...).... Their lips are moving....

If that were me who got stuck I'd strongly consider returning the merchandise -by dumping it in the seller's front yard without notice... but then you end up in court - and I'd do almost anything to avoid that...

There is a good side to this... when you're done you'll know exactly what you have - and you'll know the job was done right....

Keep us posted on the restoration - it sounds like a good one...


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Legit Question here: For large purchases like this, can you pay by check and then ask bank to stop payment, then drop in front yard? What says the MS community? Seems like you might have more options than handing the guys a wad of cash.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Legit Question here: For large purchases like this, can you pay by check and then ask bank to stop payment, then drop in front yard? What says the MS community? Seems like you might have more options than handing the guys a wad of cash.


No private seller in their right mind would take a check. One would have to be a total fool. Once that title is signed you have little to no recourse if someone stops payment on the check. Cashiers area a different story. 

Caveat Emptor is the rule that applies here even though the boat was no represented honestly.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

"but I lost interest". I bet he did. what a dick, painted over the problems.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

jlindsley said:


> https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/980439-jupiter-43-hull-failing-50-hours-25.html
> 
> 60+ pages of reading. No idea who was at fault in the end but looked like some serious issues on a new boat. IG account (badjupiter43) was deleted so sounds like boat manufacturer and owner came to an agreement.


holy crap that is terrifying. Yeah, kinda puts my problem into perspective lol


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

lemaymiami said:


> Given my history... I'm pretty cynical (but still getting caught believing something I shouldn't from time to time..).
> 
> How do you know you're being told a story (keeping it polite - there might be kids reading this...).... Their lips are moving....
> 
> ...


Exactly. One of those things where if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself. At this point I'd never even trust a glass shop to do any work for me. Seen too many instances of shoddy work and "professionals" either not knowing or not caring what they are doing.


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## fishnsurf (Jan 10, 2019)

the jupiter thing is a total sham. Guy ran aground and then sabotaged his own boat (damaged it further on purpose) to try and get Jupiter to give him his money back. He succeeded unfortunately. Another bad guy wins and makes everything more expensive for the honest folks.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

fishnsurf said:


> the jupiter thing is a total sham. Guy ran aground and then sabotaged his own boat (damaged it further on purpose) to try and get Jupiter to give him his money back. He succeeded unfortunately. Another bad guy wins and makes everything more expensive for the honest folks.


Wowww really? Where/how did they determine that?


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

That sucks man. A very good friend of mine bought an old 25 whitewater. Had it completely restored at a shop after 1.5 years it was done and we took it to the dry tortugas, on our way back to key west there was an 8 foot long crack where the loose terribly bonded stringer was beating the bottom side of the floor apart. He payed cash for the whole job and had very little recourse. Took it to another shop that was "highly referred" online. 8 months later. Same shit!! My friend now owns a $80k boat that needs a complete restore AGAIN..
Every boat I've ever owned I've done a full restore on. Most had trees growing out of them. Get in em cheap and KNOW what you have in the end. Sucks doing the work but when it's done you quickly forget how bad the work is


lemaymiami said:


> Given my history... I'm pretty cynical (but still getting caught believing something I shouldn't from time to time..).
> 
> How do you know you're being told a story (keeping it polite - there might be kids reading this...).... Their lips are moving....
> 
> ...


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## Cut Runner (Jan 25, 2017)

Edit- dont know how I quoted Mr Lemay


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2019)

Cut Runner said:


> That sucks man. A very good friend of mine bought an old 25 whitewater. Had it completely restored at a shop after 1.5 years it was done and we took it to the dry tortugas, on our way back to key west there was an 8 foot long crack where the loose terribly bonded stringer was beating the bottom side of the floor apart. He payed cash for the whole job and had very little recourse. Took it to another shop that was "highly referred" online. 8 months later. Same shit!! My friend now owns a $80k boat that needs a complete restore AGAIN..
> Every boat I've ever owned I've done a full restore on. Most had trees growing out of them. Get in em cheap and KNOW what you have in the end. Sucks doing the work but when it's done you quickly forget how bad the work is


Unfortunately this is becoming more and more a reality! A hole lotta talent out there but they would rather putty it together and just make it look pretty than do the real work needed to make it strong/durable and pretty.


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

fishnsurf said:


> the jupiter thing is a total sham. Guy ran aground and then sabotaged his own boat (damaged it further on purpose) to try and get Jupiter to give him his money back. He succeeded unfortunately. Another bad guy wins and makes everything more expensive for the honest folks./QUOTE]


So Jupiter caved in on $750k even though they knew they weren’t at fault at all. I heard the boat was rushed for a boat show. Lots of he said she saids and I really don’t know who was at fault. Plenty of boat horror stories of new boats purchased with multiple issues.
More so making point that he really didn’t lose too much in the deal despite the clear shadiness of seller


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Got the saw out this evening. They had cut into the middle stringer cutting out what looks to be an inspection hole in the rear hatch/bench sent. So I knew that would need repairing. I had to cut back the hole more and then wipe out a small portion of the deck and a big nasty glob of thickened putty that's used to bond the deck to the stringer. Found a good 3/4" of standing water pooled up inside the stringer... very nice.

Unless the foam core has just disintegrated in the area I can see, these boats appear to have hollow stringers. Stringer laminate is about 1/4" thick and fortunately the glass is still in very good condition. Should be a relatively straightforward rebuild when I get the cockpit floor out (emphasize "should").

Also, I have inspected the full length of stringers and they are solid aft of the rear bulkhead (aka the bench seat... it's not a true bulkhead). This is good news. It means I will only be cutting out the cockpit floor rather than all the way back to the transom. Also, the transom appears to be in very nice shape (emphasize "appears"). More good news. I sincerely hope I am not in for more surprises in the coming days/weeks.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Oh and another thing. I had emailed Dolphin boats with the HIN asking them how this particular boat was built. I know a lot of these are kevlar hulls, but this one is not. The hull is woven roving fiberglass (not cored) and polyester resin. This is good news (for me) as it means I'll be able to repair with 1708 glass and polyester resin. In other words the most economical option that will still allow for a very proper rebuild. (Sorry I'm not in the camp who believes all repairs should be done with epoxy).

As for the people I spoke with at Dolphin, very nice but I will say I was not super-duper impressed with their knowledge of the boats and history of the company. A lady named Kelly Fullerton replied to my original email and forwarded it to a guy named Dixon, the plant manager of Dolphin in Homestead. Dixon called me on my cell, very very nice but he was not familiar with this exact model and said he didn't have much info on Dolphin boats prior to 2007. Didn't really tell me anything that I didn't already know, but was very appreciative they actually took the time to call me and try to answer my questions. Hopefully the new ownership can maintain the quality of these boats that they've been known for for all these decades.


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## fishnsurf (Jan 10, 2019)

I know a lot more on the Jupiter thing, and I’m not disclosing anything further. I have what I believe to be the truth from someone directly involved in that boat.

Your perspectives may vary!


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

you need to buy some tyvek suits.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

fishnsurf said:


> I know a lot more on the Jupiter thing, and I’m not disclosing anything further. I have what I believe to be the truth from someone directly involved in that boat.
> 
> Your perspectives may vary!


Either way, it was a very interesting read and I spent WAY too much time at work browsing through that thread! I will say I agree with many people on that thread who weren't overly impressed with the boat owner's "style" in terms of his posts on social media. Just came across as very unprofessional, especially the childish way he was typing etc. Sounds silly but I believe you can tell a lot of a person by those sorts of things.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

anytide said:


> you need to buy some tyvek suits.


Haha I've got some in the garage. Just one of those things where I wasn't really planning on going as far as I did. Was peeking around and next thing I knew I had the angle grinder in my hand and was wearing a t-shirt. Can't win em all  I'm typically very serious about PPE and protecting against the TOXIC world of fiberglass and organic vapors


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## fishnsurf (Jan 10, 2019)

Absolutely. Good luck on the dolphin. I’m sure you’ll be enjoying her out on the water in no time!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Many years ago Dolphin fell into hard times (back when wood of one kind or another was used in flooring and transom applications -late seventies if I remember correctly...). Those hulls did not have a good reputation at all. In fact after they got back on track for quite a few years all their ads mentioned "no wood - no rot" very prominently...

I helped remove the floor on one of the bad ones way back then as I was just starting to learn a bit about fiberglass work. We actually scooped the soft, soggy wood out of the flooring on that one particular boat. When the guy who owned the shop showed me just how bad it was... he'd already figured out that they'd glassed over fiber or chip board to save a buck or two on materials... It probably held up until the first slight water intrusion - after that it was all downhill in a hurry.... and one soggy, spongy mess.

For many years later Dolphins were good quality boats - hope you're able to sort yours out. Glad to hear that there's still folks there - I'd heard that they were out of business... If anyone knows about their status -please chime in...


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## BonfireNSB (Sep 10, 2016)

Today was the first time I heard about this thread concerning my sale of the dolphin hull and honestly I am shocked. My first gut reaction was to let this go but I just can’t. First of all it was posted as a "dolphin project hull" and was sold as such. We absolutely talked about the bottom cracks and the stringer cut. I didn’t cut that hole the previous owner did. Tom Gordon at the skiff shop never told me about these bottom cracks being an issue when I had it painted. Tom actually told me to hang a motor on it and go fish cuz I was wasting my money trying to make it pretty. I did not sell this boat to make a buck or ditch a problem. I simply lost interest and desire a larger boat for nearshore excursions and to accommodate my growing family.
Surprisingly not mentioned in the opening rant was the fact that included with the sale was a set of working lenco trim tabs with brain and led switches, a nice stainless starboard and seadeked topped forward casting platform, the poling platform, the newer switch panel, fuse blocks, the console and a collection of all the original hardware for the boat in individual baggies. Thank god it was sitting on a brand new trailer that has never seen saltwater or the Microskiff "tight knit" community might be assembling outside my house with pitchforks and torches right now. Also not mentioned is the fact that when he noticed the cracks (after he gave me the money)I gave him the money back. When he again decided to pull the trigger I gave him 100 off because he wanted a discount. 
I really can’t believe how quickly this turned into a personal attack against me. But of course he "takes full responsibility". So let’s get this straight here, I am an Untrustworthy incompetent liar who should learn more about boats (ie calling me stupid) as well as in desperate need of being "called out" and I did it all to make a buck. Also he doesn’t want to start a problem and say any names but he used my MS handle and described in great detail my line of work and exactly what town I live in. I think he forgot to drag my wife and toddler into this but he still has time and obviously lives for this online poo poo throwing. 
Let’s make this easier. My name is chris, I have owned and operated Halifax Glassing in edgewater Florida for 9 years and I have been building surfboards since I was a teenager. I have also worked on everything else in between that you can think of involving composite structures. Carbon, Innegra, Matt, Kevlar, pvc and poly foam cores, infusion vacuum bagged parts blah blah blah...If you surf in Florida you either know someone who rides a board I made or you do yourself. That being said I believe it to be quite petty and juvenile for the buyer to say he wouldn’t let me fix a ding. 
Boats flex and crack a little after 18 years that is to be expected (I told him the original owner was a guide and was it used hard by me as well) but grinding giant holes from the outside in isn’t the way to go about fixing it if you choose to. It’s a called a "drill stop". If he wants to grind the boat into powder and put it back together again so be it, but there are many ways to skin a cat. Also the starboard and port sides aft of the seat were cut open (by me) and 3 trash cans of wet foam were removed. We talked about it. The holes are still there. This is a PROJECT BOAT. To be the devils advocate here I did not know about the cracks in the stringer and I said as much when the guy sent me the picture. I wish in hindsight I had known and could have told him so, and for that I apologize.
In closing I think somebody feels like they got screwed while simultaneously wanting to show off their new toy. But here in the real world the buyer got exactly what he expected and paid for at a fair price while at the same time succumbing to some strange desire for online drama which has been played out here on Microskiff at my expense.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2019)




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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Chris, you're right I definitely should not have given so much detail as to your line of work/business/city etc.. For that I apologize and I am certain you do great professional work. I will go back and delete that stuff. The bottom line here is you lied about not knowing about the cracks on the underside of the hull, even after multiple times me asking you if the boat was in solid structural condition. In your driveway you said it was the first you'd seen of them... based on what I heard from the guy who did the Awlgrip, that's an out and out lie. And that's why I posted. In fact according to that guy you guys had known about them for 2+ years. And with such experience in composite materials I would assume it at least crossed your mind they were more than superficial. And regardless when the boat was sanded for awlgrip it would have been plain to see that the cracks went into the laminate. 

For these reasons I'm now stuck with a torn apart boat in my backyard that needs full rebuild. Countless hours of labor and who knows how much extra money in materials. So yeah, I'm a little pissed. And as for the trim tabs/casting platform/trailer etc.. That is irrelevant. I paid the price I did knowing I would receive those and THINKING the boat was in sound structural condition. It's not as if you threw them into the deal out of the goodness of your heart. Anyway I stand by everything I said in the original post but if you want me to delete this thread just text me or send me a message on here.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

What does an Awlgrip/imron paint job cost these days?


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## BonfireNSB (Sep 10, 2016)

The awl grip job cost me 1300 bucks. The trailer was 1200 after they gave me 200 on my trade in trailer. I paid 400+ for the topside to be sanded and console/bait well holes to be fixed. 
I only mentioned the other extras included with the sale because they were “relevant” to the price I asked. Which I still believe to be reasonable for a boat that has proven history and does its job well. 
In my defense again to shed the multiple liar accusations I will defend my knowledge of the bottom cracks by saying this. The boat was bottom painted when I bought it. I had it re bottom painted while I owned it. When I took it to the skiff shop nothing was said about “cracks to the laminate”. They painted the boat and it was terrible. Covered in fish eyes from bow to stern. I returned the boat to them and raised a little hell. Tom Gordon did me a solid and painted the whole boat again at no cost to me. I placed it on a brand new trailer with high hopes of one day returning her to former glory. 
Then the boat sat for 2 years in the sun behind my factory collecting sun rays and dirt while I dealt with having our first child. I had the topside work done and then it sat again for 6 months. When the buyer said he wanted to come see it, I gave it a bath and collected all the parts. When he noticed the cracks I said “damn this one is weeping!” That’s when I gave him his money back. Then he decided to take it anyway hence the “it’s my fault I own it” rhetoric. 
Now here we are acting like children. I have today called the “awl grip guy” and asked about the conversation they had and he says he was misinterpreted. 

If he would have just hung a motor on it he would be fishing tmrw. It’s not a Ferrari it’s an 18 year old fiberglass boat.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

dlpanadero said:


> Yes fortunately the laminate around the cracks is still very good quality. So (hopefully) it will just be a matter of repairing with a few layers of 1708 fiber. And then of course the floor will have to come out to rebuild the stringers, which I assume are foam cored. I did a thread a few years back of a pathfinder 15t rebuild I did, which was built similarly to this one. So hopefully the rebuild process will be pretty straightforward. Time consuming, but straightforward.


did a rebuild on a 17t also, not that big of a job


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

" Tom actually told me to hang a motor on it and go fish cuz I was wasting my money trying to make it pretty. I did not sell this boat to make a buck or ditch a problem. I simply lost interest and desire a larger boat for nearshore excursions and to accommodate my growing family"

"The awl grip job cost me 1300 bucks..."

"In my defense again to shed the multiple liar accusations I will defend my knowledge of the bottom cracks by saying this. The boat was bottom painted when I bought it. I had it re bottom painted while I owned it. When I took it to the skiff shop nothing was said about “cracks to the laminate”. They painted the boat and it was terrible. Covered in fish eyes from bow to stern. I returned the boat to them and raised a little hell. Tom Gordon did me a solid and painted the whole boat again at no cost to me. "

I am confused....the boat was bottom painted 2x then the whole boat was painted w/ awl grip?

The bottom paint was removed or was it painted down to the bottom paint line????


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## BonfireNSB (Sep 10, 2016)

The boat was bottom painted when I bought it. I had it re bottom painted while I was using it. The skiff shop sanded all that off and painted it with awl grip.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Man this a bunch he said and she said
When i brought my boat home from Naples Fl i found a motor with a busted cylinder, a corroded gas tank that was leaking. I could go on. I never called the widow i bought it from just delt with it. I wanted the boat and i got it


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

no, not all 18 year old boats flex and crack.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Good for you permitchaser. Guys, I’m done w this thread I’ve said what I wanted to say and I stand by everything I first said in the original post. I’ll create a separate rebuild thread if anyone cares to follow that. Enjoy your fishing and coolers of cold beer this summer. I’ll be out in the back yard with the angle grinder and full paper suit on.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Got it.....boat was sanded for at least one of the bottom jobs...then really sanded down to remove bottom paint and to prep hull for the awl grip job...then sanded again cause the first paint job "fish eyed".....then painted again.................


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

BonfireNSB said:


> Also not mentioned is the fact that when he noticed the cracks (after he gave me the money)I gave him the money back. When he again decided to pull the trigger I gave him 100 off because he wanted a discount.


I've just been sitting back eating my popcorn, and did not intend to comment. However the above quote really caught my attention. If this is accurate then he gave you a clear out after you inspected it and paid. You then talked yourself into the sale again, then had buyers remorse once you got home. 

We have all bought projects that we were not happy with, but that is why this world works on the premise of buyer be ware. You can't prove he lied or knew about anything, and you clearly bought a boat that needed a lot of work. Best to just move on, cause he never had to offer your money back in the first place.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

View attachment 85546




firecat1981 said:


> I've just been sitting back eating my popcorn, and did not intend to comment. However the above quote really caught my attention. If this is accurate then he gave you a clear out after you inspected it and paid. You then talked yourself into the sale again, then had buyers remorse once you got home.
> 
> We have all bought projects that we were not happy with, but that is why this world works on the premise of buyer be ware. You can't prove he lied or knew about anything, and you clearly bought a boat that needed a lot of work. Best to just move on, cause he never had to offer your money back in the first place.


Ok so I guess this will be my last post. “You can’t prove he lied or knew about anything.” Well no I guess I can’t prove that he stood there in his driveway and told me he’d never seen the hull cracks before. But I can show you the message the awlgrip guy sent me when I got in touch with him asking for some history on the boat. Maybe I’m the lunatic here but from that message I understood he’d never seen cracks that structural in those boats before, but they still decided to paint over them. And then not tell me about them.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2019)




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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

See I'm reading that differently then you are. To me that says he has seen the cracking in other boats before, and because they are typically not deep or structural they decided just to paint over them. The sentence right after that stating "I don't think anyone realized they'd be a Issue" seems to corroborate my thinking. Without straight clarification it would be hard to make a judgment either way.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Stirring:

1.Who paints over cracks w/o prep?
2.Why spend $1300 on paint job over cracks?

Like ..you ..know dude...its a waste of money


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

topnative2 said:


> 1.Who paints over cracks w/o prep?
> 2.Why spend $1300 on paint job over cracks?


You know the answer to these questions.


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## BonfireNSB (Sep 10, 2016)

We did not have a board meeting about “cracks”. Nobody ever said the hull has a problem. The boat was immaculately painted and then sat for 2.5 years. I am busy being a dad and a small business owner. Like I said, I lost interest in the boat. I never crawled under it again after it got painted. I’ll say it again...last time. When we saw the cracks it was a first for me. I actually said “damn this one is weeping!”. He still bought the boat. After I gave him the money back. 
I don’t like being called a liar. Neither would you. But I am not giving up on this thread because my mom never told me I was a snowflake, I work for my money and my word is my bond.


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## BonfireNSB (Sep 10, 2016)




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## Tautog166 (Jul 7, 2018)

topnative2 said:


> Stirring:
> 
> 1.Who paints over cracks w/o prep?
> 2.Why spend $1300 on paint job over cracks?
> ...


Stirring a bit more...

Hiding behind the reputation of a well known shop and name.

Who sells a project hull and expects them to hang a motor on it and be fishing tomorrow?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

What felt like needed to be said has been said...let this one rest!


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## Sailfish_WC (Mar 7, 2019)

I wish I had a garage/shed/etc to do stuff like this


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## Renegade (Aug 30, 2015)

I sold my Renegade Pro a little over a year ago, on this site. It was an 03 in very good shape. I miss it regularly. There is not a better poling craft on the planet, in my opinion. With the pocket, and a jack plate, I could run in 3" of soft ground, which was necessary in the winter where I fish. 

Fix her up, and don't look back. There are plenty of good skiff rebuilders out there.


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## tailchaser16 (Sep 23, 2008)

lemaymiami said:


> If anyone knows about their status -please chime in...


Eric's Outboard in Miami is selling them 
https://www.ericscontender.com/dolphinboats


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

when its all done youll know what you have.
good luck!


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## Landry (Aug 18, 2019)

You should have demanded 1000 back if that’s a fair deal with the necessary work. 
If he seems like a good guy them that would be the true test of how good he is.


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## Landry (Aug 18, 2019)

Good luck with the rebuild. Will be a beauty when you are done.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Well look what I found hiding under the trailer bunk when I flipped the hull for bottom repair. Someone had sanded down to the fiberglass and clearly saw where the crack went into the glass. Was never gonna bring this topic up again but can’t help it after seeing this. What a complete fucking load of shit...


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

You bought an old used project hull and trailer for $5K *without surveying it.*

Get over it..


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## BrownDog (Jun 22, 2019)

So, just to clarify, you were not happy with the purchase?


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Gonna step away now for awhile so I don’t say something I regret in response to you guys above.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

jlindsley said:


> You bought an old used project hull and trailer for $5K *without surveying it.*
> 
> Get over it..


I did that once even drove 1200 miles (round trip) to get it. It worked out okay for me. You win some you lose some.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

It’s fixable. You could build a boat and glass over a crack every two inches that runs front to back. That works, so repair this one. Sucks you did not get what you expected.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Sucks you got hosed on the deal and keep venting if that makes you feel better that's your right to do. Then fix that classic hull up and fish it. Unfortunately the only people who know how it went down is you and him we are just arm chair quarterbacks.


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## Tautog166 (Jul 7, 2018)

That sucks. I still think the prior owner knew all about it and pushed it off on someone else. 

That’s just my opinion.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

dlpanadero said:


> Well look what I found hiding under the trailer bunk when I flipped the hull for bottom repair. Someone had sanded down to the fiberglass and clearly saw where the crack went into the glass.


Wait a second. Wasn't this boat advertised as flipped and professionally painted?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

jmrodandgun said:


> Wait a second. Wasn't this boat advertised as flipped and professionally painted?


Aside from the sanded spot the surrounding area sure doesn't look professionally painted. Looks like they forgot to prep and just painted. Who did the painting?


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Probably the guy that repaints dumpsters before they go out to a new account.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Capnredfish said:


> It’s fixable. You could build a boat and glass over a crack every two inches that runs front to back. That works, so repair this one. Sucks you did not get what you expected.


Thanks for the positive encouragement  Rebuild process is already underway if you care to check out the progress: https://www.microskiff.com/threads/dolphin-renegade-rebuild.69014/


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Sucks you got hosed on the deal and keep venting if that makes you feel better that's your right to do. Then fix that classic hull up and fish it. Unfortunately the only people who know how it went down is you and him we are just arm chair quarterbacks.


Thanks buddy really appreciate the kind words  Thought the venting was over until I flipped the boat and saw the sanded spot. All is good though.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Walter Lee said:


> That sucks. I still think the prior owner knew all about it and pushed it off on someone else.
> 
> That’s just my opinion.


Your opinion and mine align quite nicely.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> Wait a second. Wasn't this boat advertised as flipped and professionally painted?


Yep sure was


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> So who’s the swindler that sold you this hull?


I got in touch and talked with the guy after I flipped the hull and saw the sanded spot. He claims he has no idea who sanded it or how it got there. I am trying to be as gentlemanly as possible about this whole thing so not going to name any names


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

el9surf said:


> Aside from the sanded spot the surrounding area sure doesn't look professionally painted. Looks like they forgot to prep and just painted. Who did the painting?


The paint job is complete shit. Absolutely horrible. It indeed looks like it was quickly sprayed with zero prep. Like I said in the previous reply I don't wanna name any names. But it's a "professional" shop here in FL


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Capnredfish said:


> Probably the guy that repaints dumpsters before they go out to a new account.


Lollll


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I would be tempted to sand down all of that paint to make sure nothing else structural is hiding under that half assed job. Might as well while you are at it. You can do it right and avoid a future headache.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I would agree. In the end you will know the boat well and have something to be proud of.


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

dlpanadero said:


> The paint job is complete shit. Absolutely horrible. It indeed looks like it was quickly sprayed with zero prep. Like I said in the previous reply I don't wanna name any names. But it's a "professional" shop here in FL


Looks like Skiff shop painted it

Another forum member from nsb/edgewater sold it. 

Page 3 reveals all parties


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

jlindsley said:


> Looks like Skiff shop painted it
> 
> Another forum member from nsb/edgewater sold it.
> 
> Page 3 reveals all parties


Busted


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Verified that boat was painted with zero (or very little) prep...

Just keeps getting better and better.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

If it makes you feel better, that's basically what my keel looks like anyway.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Listen man you bought a project boat without doing your due diligence and now you’re upset you have to do work. Quit complaining and learn the lesson handed to you.


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

The keel on any skiff will look like that with normal use..


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

What are you using to do the sanding? It looks almost like you're using a scraper or a non random orbital or grinder. Very uneven/rough looking. Also are you removing all the gelcoat on purpose or am I just looking at these pics wrong? 

Edit:Meaning are you planning on more glass?


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## Monty (Jan 10, 2018)

Its going to come out good. You have the ability and the cost will be minimal. Its clear someone took a right angle grinder with 40 disc and burrowed deep into the glass. Like said above, you'll fix and it'll come out good. that was just a "little surprise" someone left.


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## Monty (Jan 10, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> What are you using to do the sanding? It looks almost like you're using a scraper or a non random orbital or grinder. Very uneven/rough looking. Also are you removing all the gelcoat on purpose or am I just looking at these pics wrong?
> 
> Edit:Meaning are you planning on more glass?


Yeah, those right angle grinders will create a lot of problems with dips and smiles in the fiberglass.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

I would find a high amp rated random orbital, or I think you're going to add a lot of fairing/finish work for no reason.

Disclaimer, I am an amateur and have not done tons of glass work, just looks a little rough imo if you're not planning on CSM or something.

There are a lot of people on here that have a lot of exp. @Boatbrains is knowledgeable and usually quick to help someone out with advice if you need it.

Also, good luck and don't worry about the past, you'll have a nice boat that you know inside and out when you're done. Also if you document the work on here or wherever, you'll get a decent price when you sell because people will know what they're getting.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

LowHydrogen said:


> What are you using to do the sanding? It looks almost like you're using a scraper or a non random orbital or grinder. Very uneven/rough looking. Also are you removing all the gelcoat on purpose or am I just looking at these pics wrong?
> 
> Edit:Meaning are you planning on more glass?


Gelcoat or awlgrip, it shouldn’t come off with a scraper, it should be damn near impossible to remove! Looks like super shitty prep work.


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

dlpanadero said:


> Verified that boat was painted with zero (or very little) prep...
> 
> Just keeps getting better and better.
> 
> ...


Have you ever seen Disney's, Frozen?


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Yes in the pics I used a very aggressive 1 1/8” belt sander and yes it comes out very rough/uneven. This is not sanding to prep for new paint this is sanding to remove lots of material quickly. 

I went down to bare glass in the spots that I will be adding new glass. Then will fair over. I use a ro sander to prep for new paint


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## SFL_Mirage (May 25, 2019)

You ain’t the only one with problems man haha. I bought this boat over summer, got a couple good trips out of it but noticed a slow leak. Ground down some marine Tex and found the culprit. That said I got the boat for a good price and knew it was gonna need work going into it. I’m going to begin repairs once I have it dried out then I’ll have a badass boat again!


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Yeeehaw! Oh boy looks exactly like what I got going on  good thing is once we’re back out on the water we’ll appreciate it that much more. (Well, hopefully..)


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

Sure is easy to forget sometimes how blessed and fortunate we are.


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## SFL_Mirage (May 25, 2019)

Just finished glassing. First time I’ve done it in my life. I’m pretty sure it will be a strong hold! Plenty of layers. Gonna sand it down once dried and paint then fingers crossed good to go!


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## dlpanadero (Mar 9, 2016)

SFL_Mirage said:


> Just finished glassing. First time I’ve done it in my life. I’m pretty sure it will be a strong hold! Plenty of layers. Gonna sand it down once dried and paint then fingers crossed good to go!
> View attachment 95858


Lookin good!! Yeah as long as you sanded the surrounding area good with rough sandpaper should get a good bond and hold up just fine


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