# Orvis H3



## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Well here you have it; the last word in fly rods:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...-helios-3-review-one-fly-rod-to-rule-them-all

I figured something was up when some shops were discounting the H2.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

That's great and all, but how much better can it possibly be? Fly lines aren't getting longer, so they aren't casting further. So what exactly are they changing?

"NEW Helios 3! Same great distance with improved accuracy from 20 to 22 feet"


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## duppyzafari (Jul 9, 2015)

I just casted the Helios 3D at iCast, yesterday, and it's super nice.

I have several H2s and the H3D doesn't blow them completely out of the water, but it's definitely a noticeably different feel. I'm not going to sell my H2s and scramble to the Orvis store, but I would definitely ask for an H3D replacement if I was sending back a broken H2.

The best way to describe it would probably be that it's Orvis' answer to the Scott Meridian. My buddy with half a dozen Meridians still prefers his Meridians after casting the H3D.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I was at iCast as well.

For me, the H3 was a wet noodle! I was somewhat disappointed that it was slower than the H2. On the flip side, I think they made the rod more progressive than ultra fast for the trout guys up north, whining about the rods becoming too fast these days.  But then again, I prefer fast rods. 

My advise is..... Hang on to your H2's if you prefer a faster rod.

The title should read.... Orvis' introduces their new "Mid Flex Helios 2," now renamed, the "Helios 3" in models 3D and 3F










One of their highlights to both rods (D for All water rod for more salt and steelhead minded people, F for more of a freshwater rod) is getting the rod to recover faster for a more progressive and parabolic yet fast rod. Basically it dampens the way the rod vibrates after it's unloaded, which the vibrations effect line speed. So their is a noticeable damping of the tip bounce for a rod that is not extra fast (which is a big deal in the industry).

As a caveat to give the H3 the *benefit of the doubt*, it *may* be possible that the rod feels better in a 9wt and north of that compares to the H2, since the H2 becomes noticeably stiffer as it goes up in line weight from 9wt, 10 and up to the 12. As any rod becomes stiffer in the swing (not fast....stiff!) more than what's needed to help load those heavier lines, it becomes less fun to throw. But I didn't have time to try those heavier rods out (but will seek them out to give them a spin one day). So I'm predicting that rod in the 9-12wt class will feel nice and easy to throw yet still have noticeable power. However, at the show, I only picked up the 8wt as a "base-line" of the series and was doing that with all the rod mfg's during the show (so many rods.... so little time! ). But I have a feeling the trout guys are loving it south of 8wt (or lower line weight rods).

You really need a more progressive flow to the rod when fishing tight trout streams to roll cast, mending and just easy light presentation cast to the fish without blowing up the water. But the problem has always been that it's hard to find some real casting power in those rods when you can do it with some authority and them pick up and bomb a cast out there 60-70ft with just 1 rod. So I think this is Orvis' answer to that, whereas it's giving the trout stream guys the flex they still want yet with a lot more power and authority and then turn around and allow those same trout guys or guys who likes the flow of an easier casting rod with more of a parabolic action and go out to the big rivers for steelies or the salt and cast those more aggressive lines and flies, feeling the rod loading and unloading and cast like the pro they want to be. Also another application my be throwing to close in redfish that are 10 to 40ft from the boat and you want to throw a light swing rod (which the H3 is, I give it that) and be able to load tight and quickly without over lining the rod or throwing those short head redfish lines (which causes the rod to feel heavy on the swing) and use a standard general purpose line match up to the line weight rated for the rod (or for those guys who like lines with grain weights that match the recommendation rod specs), which, in the end causes the rod to feel light on the swing, while still reaching those close-in fish and then turn around and bomb a line out 70ft to the fish tailing out there at 10:00.

Also, the other big market is the bass guys who need a rod to open the loops up a bit for large flies and bass bugs and allowing them an easier way to throw close end with a lighter swing rod.

Btw, I had the opportunity to chat for quite a while with Pete Kutzer about the rod and just fly casting in general. You'll know Pete from the Orvis fly casting videos you see on youtube. Now... I'm a tall guy 6'3" and tall guys recognize guys who are taller than themselves and Pete is one of those guys, towering at 6'6"+. He does a great job at those videos and I recommend them to anyone getting into fly fishing and fly casting, both fresh and saltwater. Very, very nice guy!

I've always gave my nods with Orvis products and have had my share of them. So I'm not exactly throwing the rod under the bus just yet. For me to give a more accurate description of what I think they did to the rod, aside from trying to make a lighter rod, is they took a "Tip Flex" rod like the H2 and turned it into a "Mid Flex" rod. Back in the day, Orvis actually build some of their high end rods that way and one could chose what rod the wanted to buy based on how it felt, relative to their casting style (i.e. mid flex or tip flex). For me back then fishing the salt, I preferred the tip flex (fast rods) down in the lower rod weights, from 5 -8wts. But I preferred (and owned) rods in a "mid flex" in a 10 or higher, since they were easier to cast those heavier lines in a fast "stiff" rod.

For those who don't understand, basically the mid flex rods loaded deeper down in the rod blank which made it easier to feel it loading, easier and quicker short distances shots and made a gentler presentation. Also, it was very forgiving. With the tip flex rods, your casting game needed to be elevated and "spot-on" to be able to take advantage of the rod's benefits.

To summarize, aside from all the high tech frills, I think Orvis brought out this rod to give a high end "Mid Flex" rod for those who are looking for that, in a world where everything keeps moving towards "faster and lighter." So I would consider this rod to be "easier and lighter" (or light weight more mid progressive flow to the rod).

So for the trout stream guys in the lower line weights, they'll think this rod is a dream to throw, and, it comes in the heavier line weights, so transitioning to saltwater would be easier for them without jumping ship from Orvis and going over to Winston or T&T to do so.

Just my overview and opinion about the rod.

One final note for those who are sticking with their faster Helios 2, Orvis is now discounted the Helios 2 line to make room for inventory for the Helios 3, not that they are discontinuing, but possibly to more more product direct from the mfg. So their are some good deals on them if you are picking one up or adding one to the quiver. I'm not sure how their dealers like that move, but I think there will be some compensation from the wholesale end to the dealers so that the dealers can also follow suit. So not discontinuing the Helios 2, but discounting them for their forecasting that they will move a lot of Helios 3 to a more broader market (remember, there are way more trout and bass guys than saltwater guys).

http://www.orvis.com/fly-fishing-sale

Two more last honorable mentions is the Orvis Clearwater, which is a nice, light weight, light on the swing, extra fast rod. I think it's Orvis' way to go after those seeking out rods like the TFO BVK. For me, it's a finesse fast rod and a really decent price point in the $200's. Good for beach fishing and light duty open flats for spotted sea trout, light redfish and such.

Also the Recon is just an all around durable rod that can double as a bass rod and then use it for a durable saltwater inshore rod. It's got some lifting power for heavier fish, but yet easy to cast and load up. I think it's a perfect kayak rod and Orvis' answer to the Scott Tidal, except it's a tad faster and a tad lighter on the swing. In my opinion, it's a great value and a fun rod to cast and fish in a mid price point rod.

Ted Haas


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

I also threw the H3 at ICAST and just like Backwater, I was not impressed and thought it felt soft. I currently have an H2 and think it feels lighter on the swing than the new rod. Didn't notice any extra distance or accuracy but a lot of factors at play there. I was also told by the Orvis reps that if you break your H2 you WILL NOT be sent an H3. They are recouping all of the unsold H2's and storing them to dish out to warranty claims for the next few years. H2 owners will also NOT be able to participate in the upgrade program. If you want an H3 you need to buy it outright.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

I know this shouldn't be a factor, but good lord that thing is ugly. Are they marketing it to tournament bass anglers?


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

crc01 said:


> I know this shouldn't be a factor, but good lord that thing is ugly. Are they marketing it to tournament bass anglers?


Although the Bloomberg article on the H3 provided an interesting background Orvis, they mention that the guy fishing across the stream will instantly notice that you have the new H3 by the tacky white band above the grip. 

Maybe that is what's this all about; snob appeal? I don't think that's going to work these days. After reading some of the reviews it doesn't sound like owning an H3 would be a life-changing experience. 

Orvis may have made a mistake by inadvertently turning the H2 into a sought after cult classic which could negatively impact sales of their H3 line.


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

I have noticed things are changing at Orvis and not in the right direction unfortunately. I've had some issues lately and there is a noticeable lack of communication within the company. Not a good sign !


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Blue Zone said:


> Although the Bloomberg article on the H3 provided an interesting background Orvis, they mention that the guy fishing across the stream will instantly notice that you have the new H3 by the tacky white band above the grip.
> 
> Maybe that is what's this all about; snob appeal? I don't think that's going to work these days. After reading some of the reviews it doesn't sound like owning an H3 would be a life-changing experience.
> 
> Orvis may have made a mistake by inadvertently turning the H2 into a sought after cult classic which could negatively impact sales of their H3 line.


Like I said, I think the rod is geared around the trout stream guys more than anything else, which dwarfs the saltwater fly fishing community.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Not to steer this thread off topic, but I've spent quality time with other rods at that show that far impressed me better. That review will be coming soon.


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## Adrenalzen (Mar 4, 2017)

I am so confused. I was able to lawn cast the 3F & 3D in a 5wt. I was never a big fan of the H2 tip flex because I didn't think it had much power when compared to other rods and the in-close feel and accuracy didn't impress me much either. However, I thought the 3D was simply magical in-close and turning over big terrestrials at 70 feet was effortless. I think the 3D is way faster than the H2 tip flex, at least in the 5wt. Dry flies at 100 feet? No problem.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Adrenalzen said:


> Dry flies at 100 feet? No problem


With a 5wt?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I find his statement suspect. Yes, the H2 is not my favorite close in or long distance casting. It does have a sweet spot of 40-60ft and throws nice razor tight loops in those distances and almost wants to make you giggle they are so tight (since you can tip cast the thing), IMO. But it tends to struggle beyond 70ft. However, The 3d in the 8wt feels less fast than the H2. It could be that the properties of the 2 rods change down in that weight and may in-fact be faster. On the flip side, the rod being slower from 10wt and up could be a good thing, making those heavier lines easier to throw, idk.

Tho 5wts are quite often used for distancing casting competitions up north, a 1-off statement from a brand new member stating throwing dry flies 100ft with a 5wt H3 are no problems... (having thrown the 8wt version) well... lets say I have to wonder about that...


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## Adrenalzen (Mar 4, 2017)

jmrodandgun said:


> With a 5wt?


Keep in mind that it's 85ft of line and a 15ft leader. I don't think I could throw the entire line but I think there are lots of folks that could.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

On the other hand, casting side-by-side with Peter Zutzer of Orvis (super nice guy btw) who he was the one who handed me the H3 8wt, Anyway, I was demoing a Douglas Sky 8wt and my jaw nearly hit the ground, it dropped so hard when casting the Sky. I kept worrying about hitting the people walking by the far side of the casting pond!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Adrenalzen said:


> Keep in mind that it's 85ft of line and a 15ft leader. I don't think I could throw the entire line but I think there are lots of folks that could.


Ok....Fair enough.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Take this for what it is, just an opinion and experience from a new-to-the-game guy lol...stopped in to check out the Orvis store in Buckhead outside Atlanta this weekend while in town for the FSU/Bama game. Wasn't planning on throwing any rods but when presented the opportunity, why the heck not.. 

I'm a 90% self taught caster (combo of watching Pete Kutzer's videos and a buddy of mine) and wouldn't consider myself the most consistent or proficient caster but it's good enough. I throw a 7wt and a 9wt Echo boost and also throw a 12wt orvis clearwater I picked up with a gift card I had (bit of a broomstick but I like it). My experience casting higher end rods is limited.

I had the chance to throw the Helios 3D in an 8wt paired with the hydros SL reel and what I think was one of the SA sharkskin textured lines (pretty nice actually). I was pretty blown away at how effortlessly I was pushing out to 80-90ft. Now I can do that with my echo rods but I feel like it requires noticeably more effort on my part. Let's just say I passed my wallet off to my dad for safe keeping while we were in the store and it was a good thing I did.

Now to puff my chest a little lol...one of the guys working is a casting instructor and he stepped out to watch. After a few throws he asked how long I had been fly fishing and then proceeded to pick his jaw up off the ground.

Just my relatively inexperienced $.02, suppose I'll have to stay away from other rods in that class so as not to be tempted lol


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Update....

Today I felt up the H2 side by side from the H3D in an 8wt and both are close, tho they say the H3D has a better damping due to this new space/military grade resin they are using. Personally feels just a touch heavier on the swing (not by much tho) and just a touch (ever so slightly) softer. They claim the spherical wrapping method of the rod ads to faster dampening of vibration harmonics over the wrap method of the H2. But I can't feel it whatsoever. Didn't try any real distance, but just casually played around with both and to me, I didn't notice much. Maybe it helps with launching the line, but IDK at this point.

It was the H3F that that I was referring that felt like a wet noodle. Why? Because it is their "mid flex" version of the rod, where they didn't have that with the H2. So the H3D is their "tip flex" version of the same rod (so called improved H2).

Here's the bottom line, the H2's are now on sale for $565 and the H3D now retails for $895. I don't think it's worth the extra $250, unless you are super anal about your rods and you think this rod will give you an edge over the H2. When I do a distance test, then I'll be more apt to tell the difference or not.

Ted


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Was at fish hawk and the orvis store yesterday up there. Cast the meridian and the h3. The meridian is one bad A rod. Didn't care for the h3's.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Backwater said:


> the H2's are now on sale


This is the best part about the H3.


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## CoolRunnings (Oct 18, 2012)

Backwater said:


> Update....
> It was the H3F that that I was referring that felt like a wet noodle. Why? Because it is their "mid flex" version of the rod, where they didn't have that with the H2. So the H3D is their "tip flex" version of the same rod (so called improved H2).


I believe they made the H2 in both tip and mid-flex versions. I read that all unsold H2s have been sent back to HQ for future warranty inventory (Maybe some still hanging around?). Orvis hit the ball out the park with the H2 and even the Recon. Sad to hear they didn't take another step forward with the H3. Who designed the white label? They deserve a time-out.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Austin_Boudreaux said:


> I believe they made the H2 in both tip and mid-flex versions. I read that all unsold H2s have been sent back to HQ for future warranty inventory (Maybe some still hanging around?). Orvis hit the ball out the park with the H2 and even the Recon. Sad to hear they didn't take another step forward with the H3. Who designed the white label? They deserve a time-out.


My 8 wt H2 is a midflex. And I was told the same thing about warranty at iCast from Orvis booth. Also there will be no upgrade program for those wanting to go from the 2 to the 3.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I would be pretty upset if my tip flex H2 came back from warranty repair as an H3. I may even try to buy another H2 to stash away just incase. It's too bad they still want a bunch of money for their 1 piece H2's. Love that rod.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Austin_Boudreaux said:


> I believe they made the H2 in both tip and mid-flex versions. I read that all unsold H2s have been sent back to HQ for future warranty inventory (Maybe some still hanging around?). Orvis hit the ball out the park with the H2 and even the Recon. Sad to hear they didn't take another step forward with the H3. Who designed the white label? They deserve a time-out.


I didn't hear anything about the H2's in a mid flex. But they could have been up north for more of the trout and steelies guys. Here's a weird fact about myself. I don't love mid flex rods until they hit 9 or 10wts. Then I love them and have owned an Orvis mid flex 10wt and absolutely loved it. But for 8wts and lower, I don't care for them.

Recon? Love that rod for the price! It's one of my favs for a mid value rod (price vs quality). But at this point, the H2's are just $100 over their retail price for the Recons. Still, the Recons are nice for the money (which I think the blank is the old Helios (H1) model).

White label? Yes, ugly! But I was told that it was hard to distinguish the H2's in photos from other rods. So the white label makes it clear what rod it is in photos and videos. I guess it's a branding/marketing thing.

Ted


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