# School me on big Jacks on the fly



## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

Hey fellas,

So I've been in Florida visiting the lady friend for a couple weeks and I've been lucky enough to catch a couple small jacks in the surf on the fly rod and what a BLAST. I'm from NJ and gave caught muskies, steelhead, carp, big browns, etc... On the fly, but nothing compares to these Jacks and I'm fully obsessed. I ended up just buying a kayak so I can chase these things for the last month that I'm here.

So my questions are for you guys who know these fish pretty well, what kind of flies do you use to catch the bigger fish? I've tied some larger 8-10" double decievers for them will that do the trick or do I need something bigger to really get there attention? Also at this time of year in SE Florida (Boynton Beach area) should I be looking for them out in the ocean or in the ICW? And also by bigger I'm talking between 10-20lbs, I know they get bigger but let's start there for arguments sake. Info about ones bigger then that would also be good 

Thanks for the help guys!
Brandon


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

The bigger ones will be farther out most times.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

For flies, a typical muddler pattern, most baitfish patters work well, a larger shrimp has also served me well in my lifelong confrontation with the narth American GT. Most of the flies are no longer than 3in. 
As it is still cool, be very careful what you wish for. When they get over 36in they become a different animal. I fought one for over an hour thanksgiving weekend. A solo mission, and while I started off the sandbar on the SW point of st. Vincent, I ended up 6miles south with 18” of my 8wt still in one piece. Scale it down in fly size, and look for fish in faster current areas. That’s where you typically find the big girls actively feeding. Good luck and have fun!!!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

The smaller ones are faster than the bigger ones and dumber.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

How long are you down for? What rods do you have? What fly lines for you have? Do you tie? Do you have materials with you? If not, what flies do you have on you? Do you have a stripping basket?


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

I'll start with saying that people who think jacks are "easy" have never tried to feed a fly to a big single jack cruising the edge of a flat and chasing bait. Speed and power are unmatched, and they won't tolerate a bad cast. Big is relative..in Florida that may mean 15-20lbs, where I live the standard size is more the 25-40lb range and there are even bigger fish around.) They are actually becoming an obsession of mine after spending a lot of time chasing them this last year. 

I use a 10wt but wouldn't feel undergunned throwing a 12 at all. Generally throw some type of yak hair baitfish in the 3-4" range or a popper about the same (the most fun.) Bigger flies will work but I prioritize being able to cast 60-80' to a fast moving fish. At this point after hooking and losing a lot of big fish I'm not above using a 7' piece of straight 60lb fluoro for a leader. Keep that fly moving FAST and hang on. Watching a big one chase your fly down and absolutely crush it 10' from the boat is the most fun you can have standing up.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I'll start with saying that people who think jacks are "easy" have never tried to feed a fly to a big single jack cruising the edge of a flat and chasing bait. Speed and power are unmatched, and they won't tolerate a bad cast. Big is relative..in Florida that may mean 15-20lbs, where I live the standard size is more the 25-40lb range and there are even bigger fish around.) They are actually becoming an obsession of mine after spending a lot of time chasing them this last year.
> 
> I use a 10wt but wouldn't feel undergunned throwing a 12 at all. Generally throw some type of yak hair baitfish in the 3-4" range or a popper about the same (the most fun.) Bigger flies will work but I prioritize being able to cast 60-80' to a fast moving fish. At this point after hooking and losing a lot of big fish I'm not above using a 7' piece of straight 60lb fluoro for a leader. Keep that fly moving FAST and hang on. Watching a big one chase your fly down and absolutely crush it 10' from the boat is the most fun you can have standing up.


And the choir said amen!!!


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## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

Backwater said:


> How long are you down for? What rods do you have? What fly lines for you have? Do you tie? Do you have materials with you? If not, what flies do you have on you? Do you have a stripping basket?



I'm down till about March 25th that date is subject to change a few days. I've got an 8wt and a 10wt with various lines. Airflo clear tip, Wulff Bermuda TT lost tip, and some Rio saltwater on backup. I do tie and I brought as much material as I could fit in a small suitcase. Flash, EP fibers, bucktail, bunny, hackle and schlappen etc... And yes I have a homemade basket I made myself. I think that covers it


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## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

And thanks for all the responses guys! It's funny to me that a larger fish like that will actually prefer a smaller fly. The ones I've caught in the surf are a blast because I'll walk the beach until I see one in the waves and I'll make a cast and just strip for my life and they just come and whack it. 

I'm getting out on the water hopefully tomorrow with the yak so I'll be sure to give a report. In the meantime I've got some tying to do. 

I don't understand why more people don't target them or treat them as a great game fish. But I guess that just means more for us!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I'm not above using a 7' piece of straight 60lb fluoro for a leader. Keep that fly moving FAST and hang on. Watching a big one chase your fly down and absolutely crush it 10' from the boat is the most fun you can have standing up.


Caleb, don't do the homeboy rig (straight 60) since those big jacks are rod busters! You need that *"fuse"* of a 20lb tippet to keep that 10 and even a 12wt from busting the rod into pieces when it eats 10ft from the boat and screams under the boat.


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## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

Backwater said:


> Caleb, don't do the homeboy rig (straight 60) since those big jacks are rod busters! You need that *"fuse"* of a 20lb tippet to keep that 10 and even a 12wt from busting the rod into pieces when it eats 10ft from the boat and screams under the boat.



Which leads me to a good question. What's your leader setup look like for these fish? It's mentioned above they won't tolerate a bad cast and I assume you still want to turn that fly over somewhat nicely? Or are you just looking to put a cast in front of that fish and then just get that fly on the move? 

And also because breaking my rod would be less then ideal lol.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Funny how folks will travel to the ends of the earth for a chance at GT's but ignore big Jacks at home.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

fishfirst92 said:


> I'm down till about March 25th that date is subject to change a few days. I've got an 8wt and a 10wt with various lines. Airflo clear tip, Wulff Bermuda TT lost tip, and some Rio saltwater on backup. I do tie and I brought as much material as I could fit in a small suitcase. Flash, EP fibers, bucktail, bunny, hackle and schlappen etc... And yes I have a homemade basket I made myself. I think that covers it


They are not on the beaches yet, but may be out there starting to school up by the end of your stay (usually around April tho). If I were you, I'd go to the Inlet pass. Ask around the fishing pier at the jetty at the inlet and see if folks have seen any large jacks. Most of those guys wouldn't be targeting those fish and will be happy to share intel on them, if any. Then don't fly fish the pier (not allowed) but head up in the inlet and take a stripping basket, climb down and stand on the rocks and just watch and see if you can see any surface activity. 10wt only! If you had a full sink intermediate or full sink line, that may be better. But a sink tip line will suffice. The idea is to tie up some mullet and bunker flies (bucktail and schlappen feathers for tails and with the mullet, you can pick up some EP brushes for the boat or palmer schlappen feathers for seaducer patterns (not too heavy on the flash tho)) that push some water, big enough to get their attention but small enough to be able to huff them out there at your max casting distance. Probably 4-6" tops. I'll also throw large with med dumbbell eyes clousers and whislers. Throw at a 45 degree angle up current. Large snapping strips. Early mornings to mid morning and late afternoons/evenings.

Also, take your kayak and find quiet corners in the intercoastal where residential canals dump into the intercoastal waterways. You can investigate where those spots are on Google Satellite and find yak launch points nearby (and ask around the bait and tackle shops). Tides need to be moving either in or out. Those corners along the seawalls are hot spots where large jacks prowl. Throw right up to the seawall or shore or right along those seawalls near the corners. Same flies. Also, large poppers, large crease flies and large gurglers in those areas will help attract their attention using a floating fly line. You can get the sheet foam from Walmart, Hobby Lobby or Micheals.

For leaders on the 10wt with full sink or sink tipped fly lines, Use all flurocarbon materials, 5ft of either 40-50lb, 2ft of 30lb, 2-3ft of 20lb for your tippet and about 12-18" of 40lb for your bite leader (they are not too leader shy, as long as the fly is moving fast).

For floating rigs, I'd go 5ft of 30lb mason, tied to 2ft of 20lb mason, tied to 2-3ft or 20lb fluorocarbon tippet, tied to 12-18" of 40lb FC for the bite leader. Make sure you are using big high floating surface flies to keep enerything riding high.










Good luck!

Ted Haas


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I've yet to hook into a big one on the 12wt while chasing tarpon, but would love to. (@K3anderson can tell you about his experience with that...)

Most of my success has been finding them boiling the water while feeding and tossing a popper or gurgler in front of them. They rarely hesitate. 

This guy snapped up a little #4 sized shrimp pattern on the 6wt. Sight cast to him while wading some backwater areas here...he took about 50 yards off the reel running across a back bay before I was able to turn him...but that was just the start of the fight...Loads of fun.
View media item 2178


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

I find big ones chasing mullet along the seawalls early morning. People harvest them now without a bag limit so it's getting harder to find the big ones in my area. They will pounce on just about anything that moves like a bait fish.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Throw the biggest popper your rod can handle and then hold on. We've already had big schools of 15lb+ fish in and out of Ft. Pierce Inlet.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Rick hambric said:


> A solo mission, and while I started off the sandbar on the SW point of st. Vincent, I


Rick, I fish east end of SGI. I've heard that jacks will stack up along that rip line that forms there. Have caught small ones, but have hooked heavy fish that immediately broke me off like I had 7x tippet on. Who knows what can be around, but always wonder if they are larger jacks.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I find big ones chasing mullet along the seawalls early morning. People harvest them now without a bag limit so it's getting harder to find the big ones in my area. They will pounce on just about anything that moves like a bait fish.


The mullet netters are now targeting them and sending them to Miami where the cubans stand in line to buy them. They are also targeting Ladyfish now and selling them into the oriental markets where they make "fishballs" out of them. Some how they know how to remove the pin bones. Both fish are greasy and have a strong fishy taste to them and I have no idea why they like them. But over here on the Gulf coast, it's getting harder and harder to find both since their stocks are thinning out. Personally, I think both make great fly rod fish!


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

eightwt said:


> Rick, I fish east end of SGI. I've heard that jacks will stack up along that rip line that forms there. Have caught small ones, but have hooked heavy fish that immediately broke me off like I had 7x tippet on. Who knows what can be around, but always wonder if they are larger jacks.


There are some beast at the ends of the islands. They like higher current areas. You will find some behemoths over there along with some big blues. Either way you need a minimum 20# tippet and 30#+ bite tippet.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Rick hambric said:


> There are some beast at the ends of the islands. They like higher current areas.


This has been my experience for the bigger ones also. Memory of lactic acid buildup after these big ones make me wisely consider casting at one. brutal


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## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

Wow jeez thanks Ted, do I owe you a beer for all that? Lol but in all seriousness what rocks do you speak of in that inlet? On the south side is a seawall and a marina and the north side has a seawall and a tiny rock patch that's one someone's property? Maybe we're thinking of the wrong one? 

I may hop over there tomorrow am and have a look see. 

I've got some poppers that are getting itchy to be eaten, it's good to know they'll eat on top. Makes my life easy because I can see it all!


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## rspehL (Feb 23, 2015)

Backwater said:


> They are not on the beaches yet, but may be out there starting to school up by the end of your stay (usually around April tho). If I were you, I'd go to the Inlet pass. Ask around the fishing pier at the jetty at the inlet and see if folks have seen any large jacks. Most of those guys wouldn't be targeting those fish and will be happy to share intel on them, if any. Then don't fly fish the pier (not allowed) but head up in the inlet and take a stripping basket, climb down and stand on the rocks and just watch and see if you can see any surface activity. 10wt only! If you had a full sink intermediate or full sink line, that may be better. But a sink tip line will suffice. The idea is to tie up some mullet and bunker flies (bucktail and schlappen feathers for tails and with the mullet, you can pick up some EP brushes for the boat or palmer schlappen feathers for seaducer patterns (not too heavy on the flash tho)) that push some water, big enough to get their attention but small enough to be able to huff them out there at your max casting distance. Probably 4-6" tops. I'll also throw large with med dumbbell eyes clousers and whislers. Throw at a 45 degree angle up current. Large snapping strips. Early mornings to mid morning and late afternoons/evenings.
> 
> Also, take your kayak and find quiet corners in the intercoastal where residential canals dump into the intercoastal waterways. You can investigate where those spots are on Google Satellite and find yak launch points nearby (and ask around the bait and tackle shops). Tides need to be moving either in or out. Those corners along the seawalls are hot spots where large jacks prowl. Throw right up to the seawall or shore or right along those seawalls near the corners. Same flies. Also, large poppers, large crease flies and large gurglers in those areas will help attract their attention using a floating fly line. You can get the sheet foam from Walmart, Hobby Lobby or Micheals.
> 
> ...




Hello Ted,

Thanks for all the info on jacks, it is another fish I am interested in chasing on the fly. Also THANKS again for taking me on Red Fly #12 I enjoyed the day on the water and learned a bunch with you that day. I just picked up a 9' 9wt one pc Hardy Proxis for jacks and snook. 

Rob Spehn


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Caleb, don't do the homeboy rig (straight 60) since those big jacks are rod busters! You need that *"fuse"* of a 20lb tippet to keep that 10 and even a 12wt from busting the rod into pieces when it eats 10ft from the boat and screams under the boat.


Sage advice! I try to always have that fuse in there but some days I've lost too many fish and switched to the homeboy rig out of desperation.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

el9surf said:


> Funny how folks will travel to the ends of the earth for a chance at GT's but ignore big Jacks at home.


Shhh! When there’s 25 guides pressuring a school of 10 redfish on Tiger Shoals I’ll sneak out to the docks and have the jacks and ladyfish all to myself. 

Don’t forget, years ago redfish were a bycatch nuisance fish. Maybe if we switched preferences the redfish stocks could rebound. Hell I’ve even been known to sight cast a catfish on a slow day. No shame in my game.


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

fishfirst92 said:


> Which leads me to a good question. What's your leader setup look like for these fish? It's mentioned above they won't tolerate a bad cast and I assume you still want to turn that fly over somewhat nicely? Or are you just looking to put a cast in front of that fish and then just get that fly on the move?
> 
> And also because breaking my rod would be less then ideal lol.


I generally try to keep it in the 8-9ft range with 20lb tippet and 30lb mason for the shock if I'm throwing poppers, or 40lb fluoro for streamers is where I usually start anyway. I also like to lead the fish as much as possible and start moving the fly as soon as they get within range. You can't strip fast enough for jacks so give it hell. 

Maybe canal jacks in Florida you might get away with an 8wt but I wouldn't recommend it. You're stepping into the house of pain with anything less than a 10wt on a big jack in my opinion.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

This thread has me way too excited to visit Florida later this year.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Sage advice! I try to always have that fuse in there but some days I've lost too many fish and switched to the homeboy rig out of desperation.


How about just using thin wire hooks?  I know it defeats the purpose of the homeboy leader, but at least you got some sort of fuse!


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

The single most underrated fish on the fly IMO, and it sounds like that may be changing! I think in under 10 yrs folks will be paying guides $$$ to chase them.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Fishshoot said:


> The single most underrated fish on the fly IMO, and it sounds like that may be changing! I think in under 10 yrs folks will be paying guides $$$ to chase them.


Those of us that like a good fight year round have a love/hate relationship with the golden tail pitbul of the flats.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

eightwt said:


> Rick, I fish east end of SGI. I've heard that jacks will stack up along that rip line that forms there. Have caught small ones, but have hooked heavy fish that immediately broke me off like I had 7x tippet on. Who knows what can be around, but always wonder if they are larger jacks.


If the line was cut clean it could have been a King. I've been smoked a few times off the Cape and Crooked Island throwing at Spanish, this has mostly happened when I am bored waiting on a pod of Tarpon. A big nasty bullet comes out of deeper water and takes me for a ride before cutting me off in my bite tippet....then the pod of Tarpon show up and swim by undisturbed while I'm fumbling around rigging back up lol


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

yes. I have known for a few to be caught while trolling in that area. ive seen some monster bluefish from there as well.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Rick hambric said:


> Those of us that like a good fight year round have a love/hate relationship with the golden tail pitbul of the flats.


We call them Ghetto Permit around here.


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## fiddlefish (Nov 13, 2017)

Backwater said:


> For leaders on the 10wt with full sink or sink tipped fly lines, Use all flurocarbon materials, 5ft of either 40-50lb, 2ft of 30lb, 2-3ft of 20lb for your tippet and about 12-18" of 40lb for your bite leader (they are not too leader shy, as long as the fly is moving fast).
> 
> For floating rigs, I'd go 5ft of 30lb mason, tied to 2ft of 20lb mason, tied to 2-3ft or 20lb fluorocarbon tippet, tied to 12-18" of 40lb FC for the bite leader. Make sure you are using big high floating surface flies to keep enerything riding high.


Excellent thread! I'm rigging up for Jacks in the near future here in TX on a 10wt. @Backwater, thanks for the intel on the leaders, I've been intending to dig up some suggestions. After a quick google search, looks like buying directly from Mason tackle's website is the best (only) option I see. Any other comparable brands?

Also, which knots do you suggest for these connections? Thanks!


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

fiddlefish said:


> Also, which knots do you suggest for these connections? Thanks!


Sweet Jesus man, I realize you're a newer member here but there's an unwritten rule about asking Ted knot questions...prepare for a sore mouse roller finger only joking he'll hook you up


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## fiddlefish (Nov 13, 2017)

Haha, slow day at work I'm ready to read! Bring it on Ted!


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

10Wt or 12Wt with a 3-4" fly like Caleb said. Casting to a solo fish on the northern Gulf coast is no easy task. They cruise fast and change directions a lot. I try to cast all my line out about 30'-50' in front of them then wait until they are closer to strip. Rod under your arm and two handed fast strip.

I have only ever caught one that was a single, when they get in big schools and start chasing bait it is much easier. 

Line management is key. You don't ease them onto the reel. pretty much just be prepared to let go of the line (or burn your fingers) and hope there are no knots that get caught in the guides.

I use straight 60lb leader and keep the rod pointed at the fish until it is on the reel and the drag is set.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

fiddlefish said:


> Haha, slow day at work I'm ready to read! Bring it on Ted!


JUST LOOK AT THE TARPON LEADER STICKEY AND THE OTHER 4,000,000,000 LINCS INSIDE IT.


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## fiddlefish (Nov 13, 2017)

Ok thanks Rick I just dug it up https://www.microskiff.com/threads/tarpon-leader-s.44642/


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> Sweet Jesus man, I realize you're a newer member here but there's an unwritten rule about asking Ted knot questions...prepare for a sore mouse roller finger only joking he'll hook you up


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

CurtisWright said:


> 10Wt or 12Wt with a 3-4" fly like Caleb said. Casting to a solo fish on the northern Gulf coast is no easy task. They cruise fast and change directions a lot. I try to cast all my line out about 30'-50' in front of them then wait until they are closer to strip. Rod under your arm and two handed fast strip.
> 
> I have only ever caught one that was a single, when they get in big schools and start chasing bait it is much easier.
> 
> ...


I agree straight 60lb if water clarity and fish preference will allow it or 40lb if they aren't to grabby, most my rods have a good/cheap warranty. I have never really thought to myself I wish I had a smaller rod for the big ones. I cant wait till spring.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Backwater said:


> The mullet netters are now targeting them and sending them to Miami where the cubans stand in line to buy them. They are also targeting Ladyfish now and selling them into the oriental markets where they make "fishballs" out of them. Some how they know how to remove the pin bones. Both fish are greasy and have a strong fishy taste to them and I have no idea why they like them. But over here on the Gulf coast, it's getting harder and harder to find both since their stocks are thinning out. Personally, I think both make great fly rod fish!


The Haitians love eating Jack and they buy them at some flea market in town. I've eaten grilled Jack and if done right it's good. Don't expect to fry it up like snook though LOL


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## Boneheaded (Oct 4, 2017)

Big jack are a tiresome bycatch for me "blind" casting for inlet tarpon, faster/more erratic you can strip the better, if they're schooled up, rip it away from them and throw it right back, fun to get them crazy. Jack are far from picky.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

My New Years resolution was to sight cast a jack on a fly from the beach. Ought to be a great year working to make that happen.


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## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

Surffshr said:


> My New Years resolution was to sight cast a jack on a fly from the beach. Ought to be a great year working to make that happen.


I've had success in my short time here usually fishing the incoming on rougher days and just observing until you see them. I found them in more churned up water and they were all on the feed. I usually have about 30 feet of line out coiled in my hand ready to cast because it happens quick. I tied some heavier clousers to get down quick to them so they see it, they usually had the fly within 3 strips. It's quite a blast!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

fishfirst92 said:


> Wow jeez thanks Ted, do I owe you a beer for all that? Lol but in all seriousness what rocks do you speak of in that inlet? On the south side is a seawall and a marina and the north side has a seawall and a tiny rock patch that's one someone's property? Maybe we're thinking of the wrong one?
> 
> I may hop over there tomorrow am and have a look see.
> 
> I've got some poppers that are getting itchy to be eaten, it's good to know they'll eat on top. Makes my life easy because I can see it all!


It's better if the surface temps are over 80 degrees. Then it's game on. When it's cold, they tend to stay low.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

rspehL said:


> Hello Ted,
> 
> Thanks for all the info on jacks, it is another fish I am interested in chasing on the fly. Also THANKS again for taking me on Red Fly #12 I enjoyed the day on the water and learned a bunch with you that day. I just picked up a 9' 9wt one pc Hardy Proxis for jacks and snook.
> 
> Rob Spehn


Lol... No Problem, it was fun. I found your snacks and beef jerky you left in the boat and ate them the next day! Lol


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Sage advice! I try to always have that fuse in there but some days I've lost too many fish and switched to the homeboy rig out of desperation.


How did you loose them?


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Backwater said:


> How did you loose them?


Popping them off when they change direction on the hookset about 50% of the time, other times just having them break off late in the fight while using 16lb tippet.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Another odd place I've been finding jacks is around the freshwater spillways. They take on a really cool yellowish golden color from the dark stained waters.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Another odd place I've been finding jacks is around the freshwater spillways. They take on a really cool yellowish golden color from the dark stained waters.


I've caught loads of those freshwater spillway jacks!










When I was a kid and lived on the Caloosahatchee, I use to run and gun in my jon boat up in the freshwater with my spinning rod and chase the jacks terrorizing the shoreline, swimming down it as fast as they could and eating everything and anything in their way. I'd run up in front of them, cut the OB off, throw a yellow bucktail jig or a Mirrorlure up in front of them, wait for them to get close and then reel it in as fast as I could. Hook one, fight it, land it, release it and then crank up and go chase them again! Great fun and good times.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Popping them off when they change direction on the hookset about 50% of the time, other times just having them break off late in the fight while using 16lb tippet.


Caleb, Try stepping up to 20lb FC tippet and a longer bite leader of 40lbs (say about 18"). You still need that fuse! Nothing sucks worse than holding your busted up 10wt cause you used a 60lb homeboy leader rig on a 15-20lb jack where he made minced meat out of your rod, then a 50lb tarpon or monster snook comes swimming by and looks at you with basically your pud in your hands and laughs at you as it swims on past ya! 

Besides, you guys trying straight 60lb homeboy rigs.... What's the sport in that? I knew a guy once that used stretched 100lb mono as flyline and leader. Some of those older crusty Keys guides used flyline to straight 60lb. What, you think he's doing his customers a service by helping him better that way? Might as well put a chunk of bait on a hook and cast it out there for him or hand him a spinning rod. In generalities, it's not taking it to that next level of what fly fishing is mostly considered. Believe me, I'm no purist, but I have some basic standards. Straight 50 or 60 is not what I consider to be sporty in the fly fishing world. Besides, most 10wt+ flylines have only a 30-35lb breaking strength and you'll break the flyline if you don't break the rod. I do understand it's about abrasion resistance, but then, go to the max tippet of 20lb FC and shorten your tippet to 15" (IGFA min regs). It's the spurs on the tails that do the cutting anyways, so a big jack's tail will be slapping and wearing on the butt leader instead of your tippet.

Btw, If I'm "trying" to target "big jacks," I'm tying my flies on those straight eyed octapus style tarpon hooks, like the ones I always recommend. (Owner 5180, 5169, 5170's Tiemco 600's....etc.). Same thing with other big pelagics. The semi-circle of a hook where the point bends slightly upwards helps to keep the hook in as it's constantly changing direction. With the smaller jacks, it doesn't matter what hook you are using and anything you typically use for your standard inshore flies will work.

Once you hook into a big jack, most people think you're done and your going to land them and just pull on the rod and stand there and hold on, even at the boat. Not true! They need attention and finessing just like you would on a good tarpon there you are reversing pressure on the fish (putting that line and pressure down along it's back, turning it, flipping it and causing it turn and eventually roll over. Either you try to take control over the fish or they take control over you by swimming around and around in a circle, sideways to you and wear you out.

When they are in schools, the 2 handed strip where you tuck the rod handle up under your arm pit, point the rod down to the water, spread your legs, and give it hell with 2 hands pulling line as fast as you can, works great on schools of competing fish. Not as good tho on single fish. That's why I mentioned long fast snapping strips with one hand. Seems to work better on singles and loners.










One friendly word of advise when landing them. Wear gloves and grab them by the tail. No gloves = cut up hands! Yeah I know I have no gloves in the pic above. I know tricks! 

Knots for butt section of leaders? Blood knots. Tippet to bite leader? Albright or Alberto knots. Bite leader to fly? Loop knots. There you go guys, short`n`sweet! Lol

Ted Haas


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Besides, you guys trying straight 60lb homeboy rigs.... What's the sport in that? I knew a guy once that used stretched 100lb mono as flyline and leader. Some of those older crusty Keys guides used flyline to straight 60lb. What, you think he's doing his customers a service by helping him better that way? Might as well put a chunk of bait on a hook and cast it out there for him or hand him a spinning rod. In generalities, it's not taking it to that next level of what fly fishing is mostly considered. Believe me, I'm no purist, but I have some basic standards. Straight 50 or 60 is not what I consider to be sporty in the fly fishing world. Besides, most 10wt+ flylines have only a 30-35lb breaking strength and you'll break the flyline if you don't break the rod. I do understand it's about abrasion resistance, but then, go to the max tippet of 20lb FC and shorten your tippet to 15" (IGFA min regs). It's the spurs on the tails that do the cutting anyways, so a big jack's tail will be slapping and wearing on the butt leader instead of your tippet.


Yeah using a fly pole with homeboy rig is the exact, same as chunking bait on a spinning rod thanks for the revelation, anyone want to buy all my gear?


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I mentioned this earlier somewhat in jest, but now I'm kind of curious.

If you do choose to run super heavy leader/tippet (or the homeboy leader) for abrasion resistance, do you guys think a light wire hook would be a sufficient "fuse" to prevent fly rod explosion?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Not necessarily. Instead, try finessing the fish more instead of trying to break your rod horsing it in. Let him wear himself out some then use techniques and body english to get him in quicker when he stops for those moments to rest. I've rarely broken fish off this way due to the tippet breaking. The more heat you put on a fish when he's barreling down, the more he'll frey you if he's touching the tippet. Again, when he stops or pauses, that's when you turn his head towards you and put the heat on him to quickly get him to the boat. When he's broad siding you and swimming in circles, he's not touching the tippet.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

texasag07 said:


> Yeah using a fly pole with homeboy rig is the exact, same as chunking bait on a spinning rod thanks for the revelation, anyone want to buy all my gear?


Tell me how the challenge differs? What's the point then to even use a fly rod. Just get you some 30lb braid on a spinning rod and 60lb floro leader with a mirror lure and have at it? It's far easier to do than flailing the water with a buggy whip with a fly tied to the end of a fly line. And forget the leader and tie the fly straight to the fly line. That'll work!

I'm gonna start putting bullets as points on my arrows during next bow hunting season.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Tell me how the challenge differs? What's the point then to even use a fly rod. Just get you some 30lb braid on a spinning rod and 60lb floro leader with a mirror lure and have at it? It's far easier to do than flailing the water with a buggy whip with a fly tied to the end of a fly line. And forget the leader and tie the fly straight to the fly line. That'll work!
> 
> I'm gonna start putting bullets as points on my arrows during next bow hunting season.


Tell me the difference in what you are doing vs me and how it is so much more "fly fishing"? We are both casting flies at fish, we both understand the techniques on how feed and fight a fish, we are both most likely not putting over 15lb on pressure on the fish at any time during the fight. I could also fight a fish with a spinning rod, mirrolure, and your same leader setup, does that make it fly fishing since I used a 20lb fuse?

The only negligible difference is I chose to use a leader with less knots and a stronger breaking strength and will destroy my rod, fly line, and unborn children apparently.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

More like 8lbs of presure if you are good. That's the truth. The homeboy rig becomes redundant at that point. Most people use that rig because they are afraid to loose fish if they do it the way it's originally set up as some sort of standard to fly fishing. If not, is what you are doing any different than someone chunking lures on a fly rod? Really? Is that so wrong? How bout scenting flies, or chumming the water or using 12wts to catch bass or 10wt to catch brook trout, etc. Is any of that a little "off?" from what is know as fly fishing standards? Why even do it then?

Some of use who step up to fly fishing do it as that next level challenge. Ask yourself is it a challenge to land a fish with straight 60lb vs a standard tippet system (giving that fish a fighting chance also (mano a mano, man against beast)). Probably why most guys like that wouldn't flatten their barbs on their hooks for fear of losing the fish.

Try using some sort of standardized fly fishing rigs and methods and go after the same fish. You may feel better about accomplishing something more. Otherwise, what have you really accomplished with that rig? Just saying.... 

Btw, they make knotless tapered leaders ya know. 

Food for thought.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

I remember when I first started saltwater fly fishing. I thought that a 20 lb tippet for redfish was soooooo delicate that I would baby the fish to the boat to the point of exhaustion. Fishing for snook? Oh, better throw on 40lb homeboy leader or there is NO WAY I will get that fish in. When I finally tied my leader to a scale, I realized that I could hardly put more than 8 lbs of pressure on with my 8 wt. I also wasn't catching a ton of fish at this point. Knowing how little pressure I can put on a fish, I started using 12-15lb tippets on a tapered leader and what do you know, I caught SO many more fish. Literally on my first outing with a light leader it was like night and day. And you can still lean into a 15lb tippet with confidence. I VERY rarely break off on a fish. I consider it borderline unacceptable in most circumstances. So that being said I ditched the homeboy leader long ago, simply because a well engineered tapered leader works better. It turns over flies better, makes a better presentation, is much less visible to the fish, and can prevent a broken rod. If you are less concerned with the 'sport' and 'challenge' of fly fishing and more concerned with putting fish in the boat, you would STILL use a proper tapered leader.....because you will get more bites. More bites = more fish. I only chimed in because ditching the homeboy leader upped my fish per outing significantly. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Pierson said:


> I remember when I first started saltwater fly fishing. I thought that a 20 lb tippet for redfish was soooooo delicate that I would baby the fish to the boat to the point of exhaustion. Fishing for snook? Oh, better throw on 40lb homeboy leader or there is NO WAY I will get that fish in. When I finally tied my leader to a scale, I realized that I could hardly put more than 8 lbs of pressure on with my 8 wt. I also wasn't catching a ton of fish at this point. Knowing how little pressure I can put on a fish, I started using 12-15lb tippets on a tapered leader and what do you know, I caught SO many more fish. Literally on my first outing with a light leader it was like night and day. And you can still lean into a 15lb tippet with confidence. I VERY rarely break off on a fish. I consider it borderline unacceptable in most circumstances. So that being said I ditched the homeboy leader long ago, simply because a well engineered tapered leader works better. It turns over flies better, makes a better presentation, is much less visible to the fish, and can prevent a broken rod. If you are less concerned with the 'sport' and 'challenge' of fly fishing and more concerned with putting fish in the boat, you would STILL use a proper tapered leader.....because you will get more bites. More bites = more fish. I only chimed in because ditching the homeboy leader upped my fish per outing significantly.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


Thanks for adding that point to the debate. Well said and that's one of the best benefits. You be amazed to see jacks in clear water will swim up and eyeball your fly and leader, then turn off or eat it. Same with a lot of species.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Not going to jump into the debate on the leaders but I do want to comment on the pursuit of really big Jacks.

I have plenty of clients that always ask if there are any big Jacks around the second they get on the skiff. I spend a lot of time chasing them and in the area of Tampa Bay where I fish encounters are pretty frequent.

In the scenarios mentioned where they are on the feed I agree with firing it in and stripping fast. Most of the time this approach will get you tight. There are many times however where the big boys are just milling about or just patrolling a pass. Many time these fish completely ignore the fly. In these situations I always use a bigger fly like a Kinky Muddler or EP Style bait fish. 5" is about right. I also normally soak a few of the patterns from the head to about 1/3 back with Liquid Fusion glue. This will give you a few heavier bodied patterns that behave differently in the water.

My technique is simple. Cast slightly upstream of the current. Super slow retrieve with very short but sharp strips. What you are going for is not an actively fished bait but one that is tumbling and twitching, going nowhere fast and moving with the flow of the water not across it.

If you know the fish are there and they still don't eat I go for a total slack presentation. Same up current cast but add a few slack mends to get the fly drifting. Every time the line tightens up, mend out another 10 feet of line to get it drifting again. I keep my eye on the line for either a stop in drift or movement. At the end of each drift I let the line come tight which will cause the fly to rise up in the water column. Most of the takes will be when the line is totally slack.

This is the best way to take heavily pressured fish.
Additionally this technique is killer for large Snook. Every day people throw thousands of baitfish on them from chum bats. In many places this becomes a natural way that they eat. I regularly have my clients fire the fly up under the mangroves, mend some slack and then do nothing. 20 to 30 seconds later one strip and you come tight. 

The photo below is my wife with one last week. The second photo is an older one that shows the type of flies I like to feed them. 2 additional photos from recent trips. In the last 2 weeks we have taken about a dozen of these big boys mostly at power plant and in the passes.


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## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

@Ken T so essentially it's just like swinging runs on the river for steelhead I like it, that's what I'm used to! You can learn a lot by going against the grain or the "rule of thumb". 

I can't wait to give these fish a shot this upcoming week.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Actually a different approach than swinging the fly for steelies or salmon. For these you have a tight line which causes the fly to accelerate through the swing.

My technique accomplishes making your fly move at the same speed as the current as if there is no line attached to it.

Through the combinations of the up drift cast and a series of mends you allow your fly to drift naturally. Along the cast you will impart some sharp short strips to give the impression of vulnerability to the fly. The strips are however always followed up by the addition of more slack to match current speed. At the end of your drift you allow the line to come tight to cast again.

I also apply the same technique with no strips, just the dead drift when the fish are just milling about and seem uninterested in feeding.

This approach is deadly but requires a lot of patience and trust in the method. When I have new clients my biggest issue is always slowing them down. It seems very unnatural to fish the fly super slow so I have to continually chirp, "slow down and let it hunt". 

The key to fooling the giants when they are not feeding is the slack, natural drift. These big Jacks have been around a while and get fished hard. Additionally many of the schools of big boys are local and move around the same areas to the point where everyone knows them.

Every day they see bait rigged every which way but normally on a tight line swinging. They learn to avoid these baits. The very few bait anglers who keep their rods bent all day usually fish their baits with no weight and open bails to match the speed of the natural drift.

This is the same concept to try to match with the fly.

This is also my main approach with snook under the mangroves and with most species during cold water like we've had this winter.

Ken


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## fishfirst92 (Jan 22, 2018)

ahhh got ya I understand the difference. I'll give it a shot! Thanks for the advice!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Kenny, believe it or not, that's a technique I sometimes use on tarpon in and near moving currents with high and happy flies, where it almost looks like we're dry fly fishing for rainbows. It's incredible to watch them come up and sip a fly like a trout.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Ted,
Wish I was here when the Tarpon get active to try it. Will have to check out your posts from my drift boat.

Ken


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## Limp Shrimp (Aug 23, 2015)

I don't know anything about Jack's, but this guy broke my brand new meridian b/c I was running to heavy of a leader...


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Ken T said:


> Ted,
> Wish I was here when the Tarpon get active to try it. Will have to check out your posts from my drift boat.
> 
> Ken


Where do you fish out of in the summer?


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Where do you fish out of in the summer?


I am an outfitter in New York State. I guide Trout from a drift boat from April through October. Upper Delaware River System
www.baxterhouse.net
ken


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Ken T said:


> I am an outfitter in New York State. I guide Trout from a drift boat from April through October. Upper Delaware River System
> www.baxterhouse.net
> ken


Nice,


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