# F70 Yamaha - Relion Lithium Cranking Battery Size



## mmccull5

I would imagine you are going lithium to save weight, so in that case I would go with the 50hp. Lithium's have been known to not work with these smaller hp outboards, so good luck. I will be interested in hearing how it goes.

Are you running a trolling motor?


----------



## texasredfish

mmccull5 said:


> I would imagine you are going lithium to save weight, so in that case I would go with the 50hp. Lithium's have been known to not work with these smaller hp outboards, so good luck. I will be interested in hearing how it goes.
> 
> Are you running a trolling motor?



Hi-

No trolling motor usually. This battery will specifically for a cranking battery to start the engine and run some minor electronics like lights and gps. Yes, you are correct, I was hoping I could save weight, specifically about 25 lbs.


----------



## mmccull5

texasredfish said:


> Hi-
> 
> No trolling motor usually. This battery will specifically for a cranking battery to start the engine and run some minor electronics like lights and gps. Yes, you are correct, I was hoping I could save weight, specifically about 25 lbs.


Just keep in mind you will want to keep the lithium separate from your trolling motor batteries and charger, otherwise do not expect the lithium to ever be fully charged.


----------



## Rob_Alexander

I’ve also been looking for information on switching my F70 starter battery over to lithium as well.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

Same, brought this up in another thread. Looking for specifically an F70 solution. Haven’t gotten a clear solution yet. Also trying to find someone that is smart on the problem of these motors “shutting down” or “resetting” just to explain to me what’s causing it. Sounds like alternator putting out too much power to charge the battery, causing lithium to shut down and motor to shut off? But I may be wrong, that doesn’t fully make sense to me.


----------



## mmccull5

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Same, brought this up in another thread. Looking for specifically an F70 solution. Haven’t gotten a clear solution yet. Also trying to find someone that is smart on the problem of these motors “shutting down” or “resetting” just to explain to me what’s causing it. Sounds like alternator putting out too much power to charge the battery, causing lithium to shut down and motor to shut off? But I may be wrong, that doesn’t fully make sense to me.


Because we aren’t used to batteries having their own management system. I have video of an over voltage spike each time the motor shut off.
After multiple batteries, the company saying they sent me a “faulty” battery, and almost ruining a tournament day, I called it quits and went with an odyssey.

The relion hp is the first one I have seen that could work but I am not going to be the guinea pig on it, considering what I have already been through. I want to fish and not have to worry about shutting down. 

Someone else give it a shot and report back! They have a good return policy.


----------



## DBStoots

Here's the set up on my Gordon Waterman. Everything seems to work perfectly. 

TM Batteries: 2 Odyssey PC1100 AGM, using parallel connection method

Starting/House: Constant Power Lithium 12 volt 100 Ah LiFePO4 Deep Cycle

TM: 12 volt, 55 lb. Minn Kota Terrova

Battery Selector Switch: Blue Sea Systems M-Series Mini Selector Battery Switch (4 position selector: Off, 1, 2, Both)

Onboard Charger: ProMariner ProSport 12 Dual Bank 

MFD: Simrad NSS9 evo3S


----------



## mmccull5

@DBStoots is this what you have?


----------



## Chumplz

I am running a SHO 90 with a Banshee Lithium Cranking Battery, zero issues at all. Ive ran WOT for good distances and no problems. Furthermore, I spoke with the battery designer and tech guru at the company and explained why Yamaha and many others don't allow for lithium starting batteries. He assured me the alternator wouldn't be able to overcharge the battery and cause a shut down. I walked him through every scenario I have heard online and he was still confident in the battery. He said older lithium (even 2 years ago) aren't the same as the newer ones and with the BMS they have installed there shouldn't be a single issue. I even went over the SHO90 alternator specs and more with him. So knock on wood she keeps kickin.

To be clear, I am no tech guy but have had nothing but a great experience with no issues at all 2 months in running the boat 3 times per week for many, many hours.









Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Marine Battery Group 34 LiFeP04 800CCA


Our new Super lightweight Lithium ion LifePo4 battery is 1/3 the weight and has 3xs the life.



www.bigtimebattery.com


----------



## Water Bound

Good stuff, thanks for posting. IMO, most of the "cranking lithiums" are either short on CCA's, AMPs and/or weigh too much to justify the cost over an AGM...but this Banshee looks like a good option



Chumplz said:


> I am running a SHO 90 with a Banshee Lithium Cranking Battery, zero issues at all. Ive ran WOT for good distances and no problems. Furthermore, I spoke with the battery designer and tech guru at the company and explained why Yamaha and many others don't allow for lithium starting batteries. He assured me the alternator wouldn't be able to overcharge the battery and cause a shut down. I walked him through every scenario I have heard online and he was still confident in the battery. He said older lithium (even 2 years ago) aren't the same as the newer ones and with the BMS they have installed there shouldn't be a single issue. I even went over the SHO90 alternator specs and more with him. So knock on wood she keeps kickin.
> 
> To be clear, I am no tech guy but have had nothing but a great experience with no issues at all 2 months in running the boat 3 times per week for many, many hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Marine Battery Group 34 LiFeP04 800CCA
> 
> 
> Our new Super lightweight Lithium ion LifePo4 battery is 1/3 the weight and has 3xs the life.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bigtimebattery.com


----------



## Fishshoot

Unless Relion has signifcantly change I would stay away. I had a relion starter battery in my skiff with f70, the voltage spikes would shut the motor down with no warning so I switched to agm. This was 2 yrs ago so perhaps Relion has changed their technology and system


----------



## mmccull5

Fishshoot said:


> Unless Relion has signifcantly change I would stay away. I had a relion starter battery in my skiff with f70, the voltage spikes would shut the motor down with no warning so I switched to agm. This was 2 yrs ago so perhaps Relion has changed their technology and system


Their new hp model is supposedly setup for house/cranking duties.


----------



## texasredfish

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Same, brought this up in another thread. Looking for specifically an F70 solution. Haven’t gotten a clear solution yet. Also trying to find someone that is smart on the problem of these motors “shutting down” or “resetting” just to explain to me what’s causing it. Sounds like alternator putting out too much power to charge the battery, causing lithium to shut down and motor to shut off? But I may be wrong, that doesn’t fully make sense to me.


What do you mean "shutting down"? I've had mine jump up on plane run for about 400 yards then drop down to idle... get back on plane and it is good to go, is that what you mean?


----------



## texasredfish

Fishshoot said:


> Unless Relion has signifcantly change I would stay away. I had a relion starter battery in my skiff with f70, the voltage spikes would shut the motor down with no warning so I switched to agm. This was 2 yrs ago so perhaps Relion has changed their technology and system


I'm not sure what they had two years ago, but I was looking at their "HP" version of a battery which is supposed to work better than their normal ones for a cranking battery


----------



## DBStoots

mmccull5 said:


> @DBStoots is this what you have?
> 
> View attachment 173332


Yes, it is.


----------



## texasredfish

DBStoots said:


> Yes, it is.


@DBStoots , is that attachment a relion 100-HP ? what outboard do you use?


Thanks,


----------



## DBStoots

texasredfish said:


> @DBStoots , is that attachment a relion 100-HP ? what outboard do you use?
> 
> 
> Thanks,


Yamaha F70


----------



## CKEAT

I used banshee for over a year before I sold my pro with F70 on the lithium. No issues at all.
The 50ah / 800 CCS was crank batt. I did have a stealth one ac/dc system on them as well with meter gauge. Loved that set up.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

texasredfish said:


> What do you mean "shutting down"? I've had mine jump up on plane run for about 400 yards then drop down to idle... get back on plane and it is good to go, is that what you mean?


this is my point, nobody has explained to me the detailed root cause of the issues of lithium and F70


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Why wol


TheFrequentFlier said:


> this is my point, nobody has explained to me the detailed root cause of the issues of lithium and F70


@skinnydip can shed some light on this issue for us.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

CKEAT said:


> I used banshee for over a year before I sold my pro with F70 on the lithium. No issues at all.
> The 50ah / 800 CCS was crank batt. I did have a stealth one ac/dc system on them as well with meter gauge. Loved that set up.


at 14lbs this seems to be a solid option.


----------



## CKEAT

Worked for me, maybe as lucky. They are pretty light weight.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

CKEAT said:


> Worked for me, maybe as lucky. They are pretty light weight.


now the question is, was it the Banshee battery or the Stealth One that made it work? (Or the combo of the two).


----------



## skinnydip

mmccull5 said:


> Their new hp model is supposedly setup for house/cranking duties.


i agree would stay away voltage spikes shut off my yamaha 70 as well no problem since getting rid of it and made no difference in poling draft to go standard battery. using lithium as trolling battery up front now


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

skinnydip said:


> i agree would stay away voltage spikes shut off my yamaha 70 as well no problem since getting rid of it and made no difference in poling draft to go standard battery. using lithium as trolling battery up front now


what battery were you using that had the issues working with the F70?


----------



## skinnydip

relion but was 2018 12 volt dont have model handy, chittum stopped using as hoiuse battery after we finally figured out the issue


----------



## Smackdaddy53

skinnydip said:


> relion but was 2018 12 volt dont have model handy, chittum stopped using as hoiuse battery after we finally figured out the issue


RB50 13.8v


----------



## skinnydip

Thanks mack


----------



## CKEAT

TheFrequentFlier said:


> now the question is, was it the Banshee battery or the Stealth One that made it work? (Or the combo of the two).


That’s a good question. I was just trying
It out and it worked well. Maybe just blind luck.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

if this works with an F70, this would be well worth it for a crank battery. 

6 lbs. 500 CCA…made in Florida










12V 20Ah HIGH PERFORMANCE Lithium Battery


This improved 12V 20Ah high performance battery features a more robust BMS for improved thermal management & upgraded lithium cells for a longer charge life.




www.lithiumbatterypower.com


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies

Chumplz said:


> I am running a SHO 90 with a Banshee Lithium Cranking Battery, zero issues at all. Ive ran WOT for good distances and no problems. Furthermore, I spoke with the battery designer and tech guru at the company and explained why Yamaha and many others don't allow for lithium starting batteries. He assured me the alternator wouldn't be able to overcharge the battery and cause a shut down. I walked him through every scenario I have heard online and he was still confident in the battery. He said older lithium (even 2 years ago) aren't the same as the newer ones and with the BMS they have installed there shouldn't be a single issue. I even went over the SHO90 alternator specs and more with him. So knock on wood she keeps kickin.
> 
> To be clear, I am no tech guy but have had nothing but a great experience with no issues at all 2 months in running the boat 3 times per week for many, many hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Marine Battery Group 34 LiFeP04 800CCA
> 
> 
> Our new Super lightweight Lithium ion LifePo4 battery is 1/3 the weight and has 3xs the life.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bigtimebattery.com


Bringing back this thread... Any update on the Banshee Lithium batteries? Any issues? I am thinking of copying your exact setup for my F70.


----------



## Chumplz

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Bringing back this thread... Any update on the Banshee Lithium batteries? Any issues? I am thinking of copying your exact setup for my F70.


Not a single issue since March, running the boat 2x per week or more. I recently ran 40 miles straight up the St Johns and back too. Been excellent. Strongly suggest it!

I recently had the 100 hour service as well and the yamaha tech said "we have to tell you that you shouldn't run lithium cause Yamamah doesnt quote unquote approve it, but a ton of guys do without issue" So, I havent had an issue at all and am more than happy to connect with you more if you'd like. Best of luck!


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

12V 45Ah HIGH PERFORMANCE Battery


Lithium Battery Power 12V 45AH Lithium Ion Battery is a high-performing Audio and Motor Cranking battery built on patented Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO₄) chemistry. The 12V-45Ah features a built in automatic battery management system (BMS) that keeps the battery running at peak performance...




www.lithiumbatterypower.com













12V 25Ah High Performance Battery


Lithium Battery Power 12V 25AH Lithium Ion Battery is a high-performing Harley Cranking battery built on patented Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO₄) chemistry. The 12V25Ah features a built in automatic battery management system (BMS) that keeps the battery running at peak performance while...




www.lithiumbatterypower.com





these are two I’m looking at to use as a crank battery on my build. Florida company. Seem like great dudes. 13 and 9 lbs respectively.


----------



## ElLobo

DL+ 12v 60Ah Dual Purpose 1000CCA Starter Battery Plus Deep Cycle Performance


Automotive grade lithium car battery with both 1,000 CCA of engine starting power plus 60 Amp Hours of deep cycle, LiFePO4 marine battery power. Learn more.



dakotalithium.com





16.5lbs

If only you could actually get one this looks sweet. Apparently it takes months for orders to come in.


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies

Chumplz said:


> Not a single issue since March, running the boat 2x per week or more. I recently ran 40 miles straight up the St Johns and back too. Been excellent. Strongly suggest it!
> 
> I recently had the 100 hour service as well and the yamaha tech said "we have to tell you that you shouldn't run lithium cause Yamamah doesnt quote unquote approve it, but a ton of guys do without issue" So, I havent had an issue at all and am more than happy to connect with you more if you'd like. Best of luck!


Just placed my order... Fingers crossed no issues!
70AMP for house/cranking and 70AMP for 12Volt Trolly.


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies

So far so good! Just added 20 hours to the boat while running the Lithium banshee battery as my house/cranking battery. 
Made several 45 mile + runs straight. Zero issues with this alternator / battery combo.


----------



## Chumplz

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> So far so good! Just added 20 hours to the boat while running the Lithium banshee battery as my house/cranking battery.
> Made several 45 mile + runs straight. Zero issues with this alternator / battery combo.
> 
> View attachment 184401


Hellsssssssssssss yes. Glad to hear as mine have been great at over 150 hours. Cheers dude, nice to save some weight. 

Ive also had my engine off for several hours while running stereo, gps and power pole a few times and never had an issue. Nice have that 70AH.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

Has anyone else tried the Banshee battery lately for a cranking battery for F70?


----------



## CKEAT

I know I have mentioned it before but that is what I was using on my HB Pro with new f70. No issues with the old one or the re power. Maybe was just lucky


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

CKEAT said:


> I know I have mentioned it before but that is what I was using on my HB Pro with new f70. No issues with the old one or the re power. Maybe was just lucky


Nice to hear! By chance did you ever look at alternator voltage / supply voltage (assuming you have NMEA)… on my LBP battery voltage on both was fluctuating 14-19v… above 3000 rpm would randomly shut down; never shut down below 3000 rpm but voltage would still fluctuate. 

LBP now wants me to get a voltage regulator, but that’s getting too complicated for me… if the banshee works I may just swap to that.


----------



## CKEAT

I did not, never had a reason to die to not having any problems. I still have the guy’s number that bought it. I could ask him how it’s going.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

CKEAT said:


> I did not, never had a reason to die to not having any problems. I still have the guy’s number that bought it. I could ask him how it’s going.


that would actually be awesome. And just to confirm you weren’t running a PP charge or any other equipment that would have been regulating the voltage at all, correct? Just want to be sure before I drop more coin on a battery lol.


----------



## CKEAT

I was using a stealth 1 DC charger but the guy I sold it to said it burned up on him and he took it out. I sent him a message asking if he is still using the banshee. He has well over 100hrs and I had 60-70 hrs so it should be good test.


----------



## CKEAT

TheFrequentFlier said:


> that would actually be awesome. And just to confirm you weren’t running a PP charge or any other equipment that would have been regulating the voltage at all, correct? Just want to be sure before I drop more coin on a battery lol.


He responded, still running the banshees. No issues. That’s over 2 years without issue in 2 diff f70s. Might be worth a shot. Here is a pic again of the batteries I put in that boat.

50AH is the one I used as cranker


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

CKEAT said:


> He responded, still running the banshees. No issues. That’s over 2 years without issue in 2 diff f70s. Might be worth a shot. Here is a pic again of the batteries I put in that boat.
> 
> 50AH is the one I used as cranker


 Wow that’s awesome. I’ll give that a try I guess. lithium battery power guys want me to buy a $400 regulator in hopes that _maybe_ that fixes it. I think it likely would, but I’d rather just have the battery fix the issue with a BMS that works with the F70 alternator. 

And you confirmed with him he’s no longer running that Stealth 1 or any other voltage reg?

I certainly appreciate all the info. Has definitely been a learning process. Cheers, dude.


----------



## I Heart Big Ugglies

I am still running my Banshee Lithiums. Almost 100 hours and zero problems!


----------



## Water Bound

I’ve been watching these lithium cranking threads with the intention of purchasing one as my next battery. Well my cranking battery has finally gone bad and planned to go with the Banshee but thought I’d double check the Amped Outdoors site for options since I have their trolling batteries and they’ve been flawless.
Anyway they don’t sell cranking and went so far as to explain why. I have attached the link to their explanation.
Not saying I’m not buying the Banshee, but item #4 seems to be an explanation of your issues and has me second guessing.








Why we do not sell Lithium Cranking Batteries!


The advancements in modern day fishing have caused many anglers to seek out the major advantages of lithium battery products. Amped Outdoors has been on the leading edge of providing technologies that are in the best interest of their end users by supplying some of the most advanced lithium...




ampedoutdoors.com








TheFrequentFlier said:


> this is my point, nobody has explained to me the detailed root cause of the issues of lithium and F70


----------



## ElLobo

I've got two Relion RB52's wired in parallel and they crank my F70 great and I would recommend them and buy them again if I had to. One would be enough to crank the engine but they are my TM batteries so two is more than enough. It's definitely important to have a battery with a good BMS system to make sure you don't fry the alternator or the battery.


----------



## Chumplz

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Has anyone else tried the Banshee battery lately for a cranking battery for F70?


Ive been using mine for a year now - Yam 90 SHO. Runs perfect. Never an issue.


----------



## Water Bound

I run a 90 SHO too and because of your feedback I'm likely going to pull the trigger on this battery! 


Chumplz said:


> Ive been using mine for a year now - Yam 90 SHO. Runs perfect. Never an issue.


----------



## Chumplz

Water Bound said:


> I run a 90 SHO too and because of your feedback I'm likely going to pull the trigger on this battery!


Feel free to hit me up with any questions - but I called Banshee and spoke to one of the technical guys and he assured me the battery would be great and have no chance of overcharging due to BMS in place. So far it has been excellent and do exactly what a starting battery should do - be nothing to think about!


----------



## Marc Taylor

Chumplz said:


> Ive been using mine for a year now - Yam 90 SHO. Runs perfect. Never an issue.


----------

