# RECoil vs. Titanium frame ceramic stripping guides



## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

I replace the Ti Frame guides on my Sage fly rods with RECoil guides as they break.

Ed's Tackle Shop in Crystal River does an excellent job, and the cost is less than just the shipping to Sage for a warranty repair.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

I like RECoil for snake guides. Stripping guides, not so much. Not they they are bad. They are corrosion proof and you cant break them. I just prefer Titanium with a quality ceramic insert. To me they look higher quality (the RECoil snake guides look kinda cheap as just a looped piece of metal). There is a reason that top rod manufacturers are straying away from the RECoil stripping guides but keeping them for the snake guides. Most all "high end" rods run this setup with the exception of the NRX and the Zepherus which still have RECoil stripping guides. Sage uses hard chrome snake guides.....for whatever reason. I also feel like the RECoil guides are not as slick. Maybe its just the sound they make that I interpret as drag on the line and its all in my head. I built my custom 8 wt with titanium strippers and RECoil snakes and I wouldn't change a thing. Just my personal preference.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

I use recoils on the rods I build and buy.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

RECoil snake guides screech when you haul, and is the reason why I got rid of the Scott Meridian rod I had.

The RECoil stripping guides may drag a little more than ceramic, but they don’t break.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Recoil guides absolutely will break but the only ones I’ve seen repeated breaks on were the single foots size 6 and smaller due to the wire diameter being too small to handle repeated deformations from braid to mono transition knots on conventional rods. The reason recoil stripping guides make all that noise on fly rods is due to textured lines and how well the guides transfer those vibrations through the blank. I’m not an avid fly fisherman but build custom rods and 99% of them are with Recoil guides. A couple of titanium framed Fuji stripping guides with Recoil running guides is the way to go. EDIT: on a fly rod, conventional rods I use all Recoils unless the customer specifies.


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## TX_Brad (Jun 8, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Recoil guides absolutely will break but the only ones I’ve seen repeated breaks on were the single foots size 6 and smaller due to the wire diameter being too small to handle repeated deformations from braid to mono transition knots on conventional rods. The reason recoil stripping guides make all that noise on fly rods is due to textured lines and how well the guides transfer those vibrations through the blank. I’m not an avid fly fisherman but build custom rods and 99% of them are with Recoil guides. A couple of titanium framed Fuji stripping guides with Recoil running guides is the way to go.


I agree with this 100%


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Disagree.

I think the noise comes from only the recoil snake guides because I don’t experience a noise problem with my Sage rods with recoil stripping guides like I do with a Meridian.

And line texture is not the reason because I don’t use textured lines.

I think it’s how hard you haul on a back cast that causes the fine wire of the recoil snake guides to bite into your fly line that makes the screeching sound.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I personally really like the Cortland guide taper line for an every day redfish line. Something about the coating doesn't agree with the recoils, it gets sticky. With other lines lile wulff btt it causes the screeching mentioned as well. I have an 8 wt proaxis I would love to switch the guides out on. Anyone know where I can get a quality job done in the Orlando area?


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## Greg Allison (Mar 13, 2018)

One of the reasons you see Recoil guides on those high end fly rods is because they were are pushing the strength and flexibility of those rods. At your stripping guide can be a really high stress area in a fly rod if you are really putting the wood to fish.
The Hardy sintrix rods can be flexed tip to butt like an ugly stick. They ended up the recoil guides because the guide's feet flex with blank (matching the flex profile) reducing stress risers created when a rod flexes on a hard straight guide foot. With the hard traditional guides, the guide (and epoxy and thread) is creating area of say an inch that is trying its hardest to keep the blank straight, where as the area around that guide is trying its hardest to flex. When things get on the extreme side, or to limits of a material this can cause breakage. This is why you see a rod break some times at the guide wrap. Although, sometimes its the guide itself though not being properly sanded, and containing a burr. I know Hardy was actually having breakage issues in the field during development before they went to recoil guides. If you look at the video below it shows how much one of those rods are able to flex.

I think the black recoil guides have less of the noise issues.






Sorry for ramble too much coffee this morning.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

How are you all breaking normal titanium stripping guides? 

It’s a fly rod not a baseball bat.


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## Bill_Nosan (Dec 14, 2008)

Fuji titanium-framed SIC and REC Recoil black ion-coated, nickel-titanium Guides.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I will always build on Fuji Strippers not only for look but also performance. In regards to the snakes, I believe the Snake Brand ECO coated guides are superior. No they are no crush proof but the guide foot is not only perfectly shaped for wrapping it also has a concave shape that matched the curvature of the rod blank. Also, they are the only snake guide that is a full round circle and not a tear drop shape that can cause a pinch point. I don't ever recall smashing a guide that would not have also broken the rod no matter what guide was on the rod. I still do have recoils on a few fly rods I fish but still do not think they are worth the extra effort to wrap and or deal with which line you, a buddy or a client might want to throw.

Also, I feel the eco coating on the snake shoots better and does not tear up fly lines as well as being silent. The issue with the recoils is as mentioned above the natural finish nickle-titanium recoil does not agree with the Liquid crystal series of Cortland lines. If you do not fish those lines, then it is not an issue. If you are going to do recoils I reccommend using the black pearl finish recoils as they have a PVD coating that will not harm any lines. I believe the NRXs run the Black Pearl Recoils.


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## johnmauser (Sep 9, 2009)

nativejax said:


> I will always build on Fuji Strippers not only for look but also performance. In regards to the snakes, I believe the Snake Brand ECO coated guides are superior. No they are no crush proof but the guide foot is not only perfectly shaped for wrapping it also has a concave shape that matched the curvature of the rod blank. Also, they are the only snake guide that is a full round circle and not a tear drop shape that can cause a pinch point. I don't ever recall smashing a guide that would not have also broken the rod no matter what guide was on the rod. I still do have recoils on a few fly rods I fish but still do not think they are worth the extra effort to wrap and or deal with which line you, a buddy or a client might want to throw.
> 
> Also, I feel the eco coating on the snake shoots better and does not tear up fly lines as well as being silent. The issue with the recoils is as mentioned above the natural finish nickle-titanium recoil does not agree with the Liquid crystal series of Cortland lines. If you do not fish those lines, then it is not an issue. If you are going to do recoils I reccommend using the black pearl finish recoils as they have a PVD coating that will not harm any lines. I believe the NRXs run the Black Pearl Recoils.


We use the Snake Brand ECOating snake guides on all of our rods for the same reasons. Fuji Titanium for the strippers.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

nativejax said:


> I will always build on Fuji Strippers not only for look but also performance. In regards to the snakes, I believe the Snake Brand ECO coated guides are superior. No they are no crush proof but the guide foot is not only perfectly shaped for wrapping it also has a concave shape that matched the curvature of the rod blank. Also, they are the only snake guide that is a full round circle and not a tear drop shape that can cause a pinch point. I don't ever recall smashing a guide that would not have also broken the rod no matter what guide was on the rod. I still do have recoils on a few fly rods I fish but still do not think they are worth the extra effort to wrap and or deal with which line you, a buddy or a client might want to throw.
> 
> Also, I feel the eco coating on the snake shoots better and does not tear up fly lines as well as being silent. The issue with the recoils is as mentioned above the natural finish nickle-titanium recoil does not agree with the Liquid crystal series of Cortland lines. If you do not fish those lines, then it is not an issue. If you are going to do recoils I reccommend using the black pearl finish recoils as they have a PVD coating that will not harm any lines. I believe the NRXs run the Black Pearl Recoils.


Very enlightening, thanks! The Snake brand guides are also made in the states, correct?


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Very enlightening, thanks! The Snake brand guides are also made in the states, correct?


yes sir. Newberg, Oregon. Mike McCoy really knows his guides and been doing it a long time.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

nativejax said:


> yes sir. Newberg, Oregon. Mike McCoy really knows his guides and been doing it a long time.


Mike also makes guides used on Edge rods which are 100% built with blanks and components made in the USA.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MariettaMike said:


> RECoil snake guides screech when you haul, and is the reason why I got rid of the Scott Meridian rod I had.
> 
> The RECoil stripping guides may drag a little more than ceramic, but they don’t break.


They screech because you don't dress your line!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

RECoil....Ceramic...snake.... single foot....

Who cares! I have all of them and have no problem fishing any of them!










But what I hate is little itty bitty tip top guides and not a huge fan of itty bitty snake guides either, especially if they are too close to the handle.. Sorry about that, all you Asquith and Sage lovas!


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> They screech because you don't dress your line!


You shouldn’t have to dress you line daily like the dang cortland clear liquid crystal. I really liked that line but the maintenance was unbearable once it got used a bit. I fished them hard for a year and it got worse and worse. The taper is great, the clear is great and shoots well and its perfectly clean. How bad it knots and how dirty it gets is nuts. 

These issues made me swap to airflo clear tip and so far my only complaint vs liquid crystal is the giant diameter of the lines so you have to remove backing or fly line.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Backwater said:


> RECoil....Ceramic...snake.... single foot....
> 
> Who cares! I have no problem fishing any of them and have all of them.
> 
> ...


I concur, sadly best thing about their rods beside their warranty is they aren’t afraid to but some big guides on their larger rods lol.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

texasag07 said:


> You shouldn’t have to dress you line daily like the dang cortland clear liquid crystal. I really liked that line but the maintenance was unbearable once it got used a bit. I fished them hard for a year and it got worse and worse. The taper is great, the clear is great and shoots well and its perfectly clean. How bad it knots and how dirty it gets is nuts.
> 
> These issues made me swap to airflo clear tip and so far my only complaint vs liquid crystal is the giant diameter of the lines so you have to remove backing or fly line.


Yes it needs to be stretched every morning before you fish it and then dressed. It does love the food grade silicon as a dressing. Then the line is golden for the day. I'm use to it since I was taught to do that with every line I fished, many years ago. SA and Wulff seems to have the lowest memory problem and the SA lines tend to go further without dressing. But when that LC lines is stretched and dressed, it shoots like nobody's business. 

Except for the Bruce Chard line, I'm not a fan of Airflo.


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## Tailer (Jan 10, 2017)

Surprised to see complaints about the LC lines and Recoil guides. I fish only LC Clear and Guide lines on Pro1's from 7-12wt all year and I've never had an issue with that combo. I clean and dress my lines after each use, but like Ted that's a habit I learned long ago. The only line I ever used that didn't jive with the Recoil guides was a textured SA line that felt sticky no matter what I did to it.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

texasag07 said:


> How are you all breaking normal titanium stripping guides?


Titanium stripping guides rust at the welds where the supports connect to the guide ring, and between the ceramic ring and the guide ring. Then the guide rings break with even just the slightest bump of the guide on a rod holder, another rod, ...anything. You'll find it broke when you see the ceramic ring sliding freely on your line, and then try to put the ceramic ring back into the metal guide ring. (Carry super glue.)


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MariettaMike said:


> Titanium stripping guides rust at the welds where the supports connect to the guide ring, and between the ceramic ring and the guide ring. Then the guide rings break with even just the slightest bump of the guide on a rod holder, another rod, ...anything. You'll find it broke when you see the ceramic ring sliding freely on your line, and then try to put the ceramic ring back into the metal guide ring. (Carry super glue.)


Mike... Yes I know about those areas, especially with certain mfgs. But learned years ago to be mindful to not only spray rinse off your reels, but also spray off the rod and rod guides. Then periodically wipe off the guides with a good corrosion protectant. Today, that "corrosion inhibitor" is also my fly line dressing, which is food grade silicon spray. That protects the guides and also adds a lubricant to help the line shoot better. So I periodically wipe them down or spray them and since then, no-issues with rust or corrosion and helps to eliminate that squeeky squeeky sound when line shoots thru your guides if you foget to dress your flyline! 

Also, I'm mindful when sliding the rods in the rod tubes and not trying to jam them in the tubes quickly, nor rip it out of the tubes in a hurry and clank on the other rod guides and break the ceramic inserts out of em. Don't worry, that fish will still be there.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Backwater said:


> Mike... Yesterday s I know about those areas, especially with certain mfgs. But learned years ago to be mindful to not only spray rinse off your reels, but also spray off the rod and rod guides. Then periodically wipe off the guides with a good corrosion protectant. Today, that "corrosion inhibitor" is also my fly line dressing, which is food grade silicon spray. That protects the guides and also adds a lubricant to help the line shoot better. So I periodically wipe them down or spray them and since then, no-issues with rust or corrosion and helps to eliminate that squeeky squeeky sound when line shoots thru your guides if you foget to dress your flyline!
> 
> Also, I'm mindful when sliding the rods in the rod tubes and not trying to jam them in the tubes quickly, nor rip it out of the tubes in a hurry and clank on the other rod guides and break the ceramic inserts out of em. Don't worry, that fish will still be there.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MariettaMike said:


> Titanium stripping guides rust at the welds where the supports connect to the guide ring, and between the ceramic ring and the guide ring. Then the guide rings break with even just the slightest bump of the guide on a rod holder, another rod, ...anything. You'll find it broke when you see the ceramic ring sliding freely on your line, and then try to put the ceramic ring back into the metal guide ring. (Carry super glue.)


Sounds like you are talking about your spinning and baitcasting rods. In 29yrs with who knows how many rods, I've yet to break a ceramic insert in a fly rod stripping guide. People who I've fished with will tell you I'm not the easiest on fly rods either. Don't get me wrong, I have re-coils guides too on other rods, but if it's a decent fly rod mfg using decent components and you somewhat take care of your stuff, you shouldn't have a problem with it. And if you do, sent it back for a fix or replacement. Also, if you do and keep breaking them on a fly rod, then maybe you should look at how you are handling them.

Yes, I can be opinionated. But on this one, I'm speaking with experience. 

With spinning rods however, I've broken lots of them.  Mike, I think you are referring to your spinning rods. Wrong forum!  Otherwise, I KNOW you baby your rack of Sage Ones and haven't broken one of those ceramic inserts.


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