# Finally hit the hundred!



## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

I'm still working on getting to the 80' mark. Lol


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Stiff wind at my back


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

If I had to cast that distance to fish I would practice distance but it would not be sight casting to camouflaged fish in less than two foot of water here in Texas. Even thirty foot cast may require lots of resets when the fish changes direction while your line is in the air on the way to the fish.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> If I had to cast that distance to fish I would practice distance but it would not be sight casting to camouflaged fish in less than two foot of water here in Texas. Even thirty foot cast may require lots of resets when the fish changes direction while your line is in the air on the way to the fish.


I totally agree there. Practice for application. While I don't ever intend at presenting a fly to a fish at 100 ft, I do it at 70 feet quite a bit. I'm willing to bet you could make a 30 foot cast much better than me! I tend to plop short casts like a depth charge, spooky reds love it. And by love it I mean they hate it....


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Accurate distance casting is certainly a good skill to have for some tarpon water and large, wide rivers full of steelhead/salmon, but in most cases accurate short range reset casting is a more useful skill.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Not sure I'll ever be a 100' caster. But then most of my shots are under 70' unless I'm really reaching for tails. I'm good out to 70' on most days.

Honestly, my biggest challenge are the laid up reds that I don't see until well inside of 50'. And seeing those is tougher than casting to them...at least for me.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

What area do


Pierson said:


> I totally agree there. Practice for application. While I don't ever intend at presenting a fly to a fish at 100 ft, I do it at 70 feet quite a bit. I'm willing to bet you could make a 30 foot cast much better than me! I tend to plop short casts like a depth charge, spooky reds love it. And by love it I mean they hate it....


What area do you live?

The casting stroke is completely different when going to that distance than any type of rnormal fishing/casting strokes. It can be impractical to fish with, especially years worth of doing so. It can also be done improperly for long term shoulder health. Rotor cuffs can easily be torn that way, as well as forearm tendons, so be careful.

For me, I've had to go "out of the box" to get consistent with it and not wreck my shoulder. The real trick is going from a "perfect environment" of casting on a lawn or casting pond (whether indoors or outdoors), to real world casting where you are actually fishing with cast like that with winds and weather. Of course, having the right rod, flyline and flies does help. I see lots of pro casters using 5wts to do so. Try doing it with a 12 or 13wt while fishing! Not so fun!  A friend of mine refers it to "hero casting" Lol 

So far one of the best and most consistent Florida fly casters is David Olson. I can only shake my head when he blows my doors off! 

Ted Haas
3rd place - 2015 Big Gun Competition (missed 2nd and 1st place by inches)
5th place - 2016 Big Gun Competition (got my doors blown off by Dave Olsen!)
Min. entry qualification - 100ft. Then Competition using someone elses rod, not yours, with no practice to speak of.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

Backwater said:


> What area do
> 
> What area do you live?
> 
> The casting stroke is completely different when going to that distance than any type of rnormal fishing/casting strokes. It can be impractical to fish with, especially years worth of doing so. It can also be done improperly for long term shoulder health. Rotor cuffs can easily be torn that way, as well as forearm tendons, so be careful.


I live in Tampa and do mostly wade fishing. Majority of the time I will blind cast a fishy flat when I cant actually see the fish. A 70 ft cast is perfect as it covers a lot of ground and is easy for me to throw consistently. I agree that the distance cast has its differences but practicing to hit the hundred has greatly improved my overall stroke at any distance past 50 ft. For me it was fine tuning my double haul. Learning to let out more line in both directions during the haul, haul deeper and 180 degrees to the fly rod, and keep it to two false casts and shooting on my third forward stroke got me to break the 100. I apply these techniques to all my casts and has greatly increased every aspect of my fly fishing ability.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Pierson said:


> I totally agree there. Practice for application. While I don't ever intend at presenting a fly to a fish at 100 ft, I do it at 70 feet quite a bit. I'm willing to bet you could make a 30 foot cast much better than me! I tend to plop short casts like a depth charge, spooky reds love it. And by love it I mean they hate it....


On those close shots You have to stop your rod tip up high and not dump it down all at once. Otherwise you end up with that line slap you were referencing. I'm guilty of it as well. It's one of those bad habits I find myself fighting frequently.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

el9surf said:


> On those close shots You have to stop your rod tip up high and not dump it down all at once. Otherwise you end up with that line slap you were referencing. I'm guilty of it as well. It's one of those bad habits I find myself fighting frequently.


That's especially challenging when my brain is screaming, "GET THAT FLY IN THE WATER ASAP OR YOU'RE GONNA MISS YOUR CHANCE!" I end up forcing it.

It's like golf. The harder you swing, the worse your shot.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

not2shabby said:


> That's especially challenging when my brain is screaming, "GET THAT FLY IN THE WATER ASAP OR YOU'RE GONNA MISS YOUR CHANCE!" I end up forcing it. It's like golf. The harder you swing, the worse your shot.


Same here, it has been a hard habit for me to fix. My instinct is to drop the rod tip and dump the line as quick as possible in those short shots. I can't tell you how many fish I have blasted on the head in that situation. 

I had to go in my backyard and make that situational cast hundreds of times for it to start to become part of my thought process.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

el9surf said:


> I had to go in my backyard and make that situational cast hundreds of times for it to start to become part of my thought process.


There is no substitute for this!^
The more time you put in, the more you get out.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

My neighbors probably think I'm crazy.


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

Haha! Yeah I practice on my front lawn because of fences In the back. Occasionally some one slows and asks if they are biting. My reply...just the grass carp.
But yes, practice, practice like any sport.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

what wasn't mentioned yet, however, it's entirely dependent on the line you're using. I.e. I'd venture to say, most people can't shoot your average out-of-the-box redfish line into the backing, whereas other lines they me able to quite well.

Also - make sure your line isn't 120' as some are...that one threw me for a loop (no pun intended) a while ago..


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Do the distance casters underline their rods? I would imagine that would make it way easier to carry 70ft of line.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

el9surf said:


> Do the distance casters underline their rods? I would imagine that would make it way easier to carry 70ft of line.


Been wondering the same thing myself. Seems the "sweet spot" that rods are designed/spec'd to is around the 50-60 foot carry range for your average line (figure in another 20-30' to shoot for a 70-90' cast). Rod isn't really designed to carry much more weight than that, so one would think if you drop down a line weight or two (quickness would decrease, obviously) and you should theoretically be able to carry more line.

Definitely no physics expert, but this one has had me thinking for a while. Haven't ever tried going down a line weight...most of my rods are at-weight or overweighted by one to help me fish windier conditions.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

tgjohnso said:


> what wasn't mentioned yet, however, it's entirely dependent on the line you're using. I.e. I'd venture to say, most people can't shoot your average out-of-the-box redfish line into the backing, whereas other lines they me able to quite well.


x 2 on this. I thought I was doing ok with some basic rio redfish line on a used reel a bought a few years ago. Then I put SA Mastery Bonefish on my new reel (same rod) and it's night and day different. I'm an average fly flinger, but I feel like a pro throwing that SA line.


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## bjtripp83 (Aug 10, 2015)

Good to be able to throw farther if you wade a lot. You're already handicapped by the height of the water. Add tall grass and a back cast carrying 40 ft on bare floor gets hung up quick.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

not2shabby said:


> x 2 on this. I thought I was doing ok with some basic rio redfish line on a used reel a bought a few years ago. Then I put SA Mastery Bonefish on my new reel (same rod) and it's night and day different. I'm an average fly flinger, but I feel like a pro throwing that SA line.


A rod can feel like a complete dog if the line is too heavy for it. I think most folks see an 8 wt rod and an 8 wt line and think they are all set. In reality they might have a slow 8 wt rod and an 8 wt redfish line that is more to spec with a 10 wt line.

On the opposite end of the spectrum if you get a super fast rod and under line it by a weight or two the hundred ft + cast shouldn't be all that difficult if you have decent mechanics.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Tip is slowing down the rod arm, but increasing the speed of the haul arm. That's difficult to do, but the rod arm needs drift and the haul arm needs to keep the line speed.

I've had very few times where that long a cast is needed. I've had many times where 80' is needed. I'll take accurate at 80' (still a challenge) over somewhat accurate at 100'. Give me deadly accurate at 70' and your are an assassin. No fish is safe with that combo.

Most of the time I hit 100' is actually tarpon fishing with 10 and 12 wt rods, hitting rollers and pods. Not the funnest hook up at that distance. Lots of stretch in the line. Contrast that with the fish that eats at boat - not enough line out to manage the fight!


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

not2shabby said:


> x 2 on this. I thought I was doing ok with some basic rio redfish line on a used reel a bought a few years ago. Then I put SA Mastery Bonefish on my new reel (same rod) and it's night and day different. I'm an average fly flinger, but I feel like a pro throwing that SA line.


I currently use SA Mastery Bonefish. Love that stuff!


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## redfish504 (Feb 5, 2017)

I agree with the comments that accuracy is important. And being able to cast with minimal false casting. Regarding discussion of lines for distance, has anyone used the SA Expert Distance line? http://www.scientificanglers.com/product/mastery-expert-distance/ I've never tried it, but seems like it would be good as a trout line for mending.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

el9surf said:


> Do the distance casters underline their rods? I would imagine that would make it way easier to carry 70ft of line.


Many people think you have to carry a lot of line. That's not necessarily true. Most of my distance cast are limited false cast and it's all in the "shoot". The problem with most is they try to "punch" the shoot. That actually over powers the rod for a brief moment, then the rod get's shocked when it comes out of it, destroying all your line's energy.

Smooth strokes, hauling properly and some other techniques makes it all happen. If all is done properly, you can look like you are putting very little effort into your casting and achieve some pretty impressive distance. Techniques and timing is everything. Casting speed? Not so much, but high line speed doesn't necessarily mean higher rod speed.

Some other thoughts on the subject;

A lot of people lose line energy because of rod tip travel path is not straight on both axis (Horizontal and vertical plains).

Your casting stroke doesn't necessarily speed up. But to help develop line speed, you need to open up your stroke length and drift on each stroke.

As you get more line out out of the rod tip and up in the air, your stroke tempo needs to slow down (again, to wait on your loops). Also, as more line is let out on each stroke, your stroke needs to open up.

As you drift a bit, allow a little line to shoot out on each stroke.

Watch your dang loops (both front and back cast) so you can make sure they are completely unrolling / unfurling out BEFORE you start your next stroke. Which, btw, when your hand comes to a complete stop on each leg/stroke, plant it there and hold it in place until the loop completely unrolls out before you start your next stroke and start that stroke from that point. If you get lazy and allow your hand to creep back towards you before you start the next stroke, then you choked out your stroke distance and everything you tried to establish (it's called "creeping").

Your target is never on the ground or on or under the water, but hovering about 4-6ft off the water. Again, an imaginary target hanging 4-6ft + off of the water. That way, your loops completely unroll out. Also, hold your rod out pointing to your imaginary target until the loop unrolls out and straightens out. THEN you can drop your rod, which will further unroll out your leader and fly out there. All too many times I see guys pushing for distance, get lazy and drop their rod too early, taking the energy out of the line.

With that being said, if winds prevail, make your back cast higher up in the air and adjust your horizontal plain your rod tip travels, to reflect that (tilting the plain higher in the back). As you wait for your back cast to unroll, gravity causes your fly line to fall. By the time the loop unrolls completely out, your flyline will basically be horizontal with the ground or water and your forward stroke with travel completely horizontal to your forward imaginary target. Get it?

Double Hauling (how, when and where) and the timing thereof is critical to achieving the highest line speed possible. Getting that down is sometimes hard to wrap your head around, especially when you have a rythmatic pattern already down pat in your head and in muscle memory. Getting perfect hauling timing down, will in many cases, throw most people to be thrown off and you actually have to re-train yourself to get it down right and get it embedded into muscle memory again, the correct way. Bottom line, the haul needs to be at the very end of your casting stroke. Whereas most people start in the beginning of each stroke or mid stroke, you need to do it at the end of each stroke (think about that one!).

Having a good flyline tamer, as well as good line management skills is another key to gaining distance.

Always make sure your fly line if fresh and not old and messed up (dry rotted, cracking, dirt grounded in, etc). Clean it good when needed. Always stretch your line and dress them well before you decide to distance cast them that day.

Good fly line tapers are important for distance casting. I like a long rear taper for distance casting and line control. Haven't tried the BTT yet for that tho (the reverse in tapers). Good distance lines are not necessarily the best for short, quick loading shots. Also, heavy short headed lines (like your redfish lines) are not designed for distance casting either. But hey, it's possible to bring 2 rods with you (one for each scenarios, close shots and distance).

The size and weight of your fly, as well as the ability to absorb water or not, can determine your ability to cast them at any real distances or not. Most people throw flies that are too big or heavy for their fly lines, especially for distance casting. So you have 2 choices. You can down size your fly. Or, you can bring a heavier rod rated for a heavier weight fly line and use that rod.

If you are want to get some more distance to your cast, it's best to get with someone that knows proper distance casting to view what's happening, sort of like a Golf Pro does for golfers. The ironic thing is, a lot of fly casting instructors are not distance casters. I know an IFFF Master Casting instructor that can't make it past 65ft. But that's ok since more fish are caught within that window.

I happen to be more of that Golf Pro type instructor for fly casters of all sorts with various casting styles, rather than the guys who teach everyone how to chop wood.  But no matter what you do, have a more experience caster look at what you can't see and maybe that will help you go up a notch. 


Ted Haas


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Pierson said:


> I currently use SA Mastery Bonefish. Love that stuff!


But remember, that line is designed to throw small bonefish size flies. Just sayin....


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

Really good info guys, thanks for posting!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

redfish504 said:


> I agree with the comments that accuracy is important. And being able to cast with minimal false casting. Regarding discussion of lines for distance, has anyone used the SA Expert Distance line? http://www.scientificanglers.com/product/mastery-expert-distance/ I've never tried it, but seems like it would be good as a trout line for mending.


Hey redfish504, welcome to the Fly Fishing board of microskiff.

Yes the SA ED is a wonderful line to cast and makes a great distance line for bonefish. Which brings me to my point. Again, the line is designed for bonefish size flies. So because of that, it tends to struggle with larger & heavier flies, like the SA bonefish line I mentioned above. It also has a tad more stretch to the line than the SA Bonefish line. So extra sharp hooks are a must with this line at a distance for good hook sets. But for bones or fishing with those small size flies, you'll feel like a hero with that line.


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## redfish504 (Feb 5, 2017)

Backwater said:


> Hey redfish504, welcome to the Fly Fishing board of microskiff.
> 
> Yes the SA ED is a wonderful line to cast and makes a great distance line for bonefish. Which brings me to my point. Again, the line is designed for bonefish size flies. So because of that, it tends to struggle with larger & heavier flies, like the SA bonefish line I mentioned above. It also has a tad more stretch to the line than the SA Bonefish line. So extra sharp hooks are a must with this line at a distance. for good hook sets But for bones or fishing with those size flies, you'll feel like a hero with that line.


Thanks


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Good points Ted. If you like to catch fish on a fly rod, use the fly line that is designed for flies made for that fish species. You can use a tarpon line to cast redfish/bonefish/trout flies, but bonefish/trout lines don't handle the larger(not just weight also air resistance) flies well. Much better to have more line wt than necessary. I often use 10 wt lines with the new lighter rods for reds when it is windy here in Texas.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

sjrobin said:


> Good points Ted. If you like to catch fish on a fly rod, use the fly line that is designed for flies made for that fish species. You can use a tarpon line to cast redfish/bonefish/trout flies, but bonefish/trout lines don't handle the larger(not just weight also air resistance) flies well. Much better to have more line wt than necessary. I often use 10 wt lines with the new lighter rods for reds when it is windy here in Texas.


Or just use the best all around fly line on the market - Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper (BTT).

Sorry Ted, had to do it... 

Outside of trout tapers (if I even know how to do that anymore), or sinking bass lines, the BTT is my go to for bass, reds, bones, permit and tarpon. Same taper, same line, but for poons, I do have floating and intermediate (BTT Ghost Tip). I quit buying other lines.

It shoots great and is easy casting. No problem making consistent 80' casts with it.

Full disclosure - I do not rep or pro for Wulff. I just really love their line!


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Backwater said:


> Many people think you have to carry a lot of line. That's not necessarily true. Most of my distance cast are limited false cast and it's all in the "shoot". The problem with most is they try to "punch" the shoot. That actually over powers the rod for a brief moment, then the rod get's shocked when it comes out of it, destroying all your line's energy.
> 
> Smooth strokes, hauling properly and some other techniques makes it all happen. If all is done properly, you can look like you are putting very little effort into your casting and achieve some pretty impressive distance. Techniques and timing is everything. Casting speed? Not so much, but high line speed doesn't necessarily mean higher rod speed.


I am very very guilty of trying to punch my shooting stroke and am constantly having to remind myself not to do. This past weekend I found a pod of reds up shallow at a dead end of a little marsh creek. I had to make a stretch cast into a pretty stiff wind to get a fly to them. First attempt my false casts were looking good and when I went to shoot my line I tried to punch it and my rod felt like a noodle. The cast died and the wind blew my fly well short. Second attempt I slowed down and made a good cast with so much less effort. Put the fly on the fish's dinner plate and he snubbed it, but that's a different discussion.



> Double Hauling (how, when and where) and the timing thereof is critical to achieving the highest line speed possible. Getting that down is sometimes hard to wrap your head around, especially when you have a rythmatic pattern already down pat in your head and in muscle memory. Getting perfect hauling timing down, will in many cases, throw most people to be thrown off and you actually have to re-train yourself to get it down right and get it embedded into muscle memory again, the correct way. Bottom line, the haul needs to be at the very end of your casting stroke. Whereas most people start in the beginning of each stroke or mid stroke, you need to do it at the end of each stroke (think about that one!).


Hauling towards the end of the stroke is another thing I've been working on a lot lately. It's something I've seen people who are very efficient casters do and it's something I'm trying to refine in my own casting. It's pretty tough to master, but something i just need to practice more.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

rakeel said:


> I am very very guilty of trying to punch my shooting stroke and am constantly having to remind myself not to do. This past weekend I found a pod of reds up shallow at a dead end of a little marsh creek. I had to make a stretch cast into a pretty stiff wind to get a fly to them. First attempt my false casts were looking good and when I went to shoot my line I tried to punch it and my rod felt like a noodle. The cast died and the wind blew my fly well short. Second attempt I slowed down and made a good cast with so much less effort. Put the fly on the fish's dinner plate and he snubbed it, but that's a different discussion.


I do this all the time. When its windy I find myself working super hard to no avail. Whenever I start using a lot of energy I have to stop and remind myself, If it makes you tired, you are doing it wrong. I will slow down, concentrate less on rod speed and more on my haul speed, and then I can cut through the wind with little effort. 

In regards to hauling later in your stroke, it absolutely increases efficiency, line speed, and distance. I like think of it more like using the last 3/4 of my haul in the last 1/4 of my stroke. Giving it that last quick shoot with the haul and that last little snap with the rod at the end of the stroke really loads the rod and gives that extra juice to shoot tons of line. It was this technique in combination with letting out more line on my back and false casts that gave me the last 15' or so to break 100.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Pierson said:


> I do this all the time. When its windy I find myself working super hard to no avail. Whenever I start using a lot of energy I have to stop and remind myself, If it makes you tired, you are doing it wrong. I will slow down, concentrate less on rod speed and more on my haul speed, and then I can cut through the wind with little effort.
> 
> In regards to hauling later in your stroke, it absolutely increases efficiency, line speed, and distance. I like think of it more like using the last 3/4 of my haul in the last 1/4 of my stroke. Giving it that last quick shoot with the haul and that last little snap with the rod at the end of the stroke really loads the rod and gives that extra juice to shoot tons of line. It was this technique in combination with letting out more line on my back and false casts that gave me the last 15' or so to break 100.


This is a great point. Allow me to elaborate for more conceptual learners:

If you begin your haul too soon, you're essentially pulling directly down the longitudinal axis (long axis) of the rod, and therefore would be really only transferring energy to the line = minimal added loading of the rod. 

On the flip-side, if you maintain most of your haul toward the end of the stroke, the rod is already loaded from the weight of the line and its associated inertia. Now when you haul, you are pulling more perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the rod, causing the rod to flex/load more just prior to your stop = greater potential energy stored in the rod. As you come to that abrupt stop, that added flex (PE) is now converted to Kinetic energy or what we call "line speed" for a good shoot and even better distance.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

tgjohnso said:


> Now when you haul, you are pulling more perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the rod, causing the rod to flex/load more just prior to your stop = greater potential energy stored in the rod. As you come to that abrupt stop, that added flex (PE) is now converted to Kinetic energy or what we call "line speed" for a good shoot and even better distance.


As an engineer, this totally makes sense to me, but I'm kind of hung up on one part. Correct me if I'm wrong but if you're loading/ flexing the rod more towards the end, can't that cause your rod tip to make a concave path and cause a bad tailing loop? Or are you accounting for the extra flex with more rotation at the end of the cast? 

On the subject of the stop, I've heard guys say to squeeze the rod as you come to a stop at both your forward and back cast. I assume this will just make the stop more sudden since you have a more "rigid" fix there now. Do any of y'all do this? Seems to make sense to me, but just adds another thing to try and think about when I'm casting.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

rakeel said:


> As an engineer, this totally makes sense to me, but I'm kind of hung up on one part. Correct me if I'm wrong but if you're loading/ flexing the rod more towards the end, can't that cause your rod tip to make a concave path and cause a bad tailing loop? Or are you accounting for the extra flex with more rotation at the end of the cast?
> 
> On the subject of the stop, I've heard guys say to squeeze the rod as you come to a stop at both your forward and back cast. I assume this will just make the stop more sudden since you have a more "rigid" fix there now. Do any of y'all do this? Seems to make sense to me, but just adds another thing to try and think about when I'm casting.


So i'm not sure exactly how to answer this but here goes. Yes, you add a little compensation in the cast. When you add that extra load toward the end of the stroke, yes it will bring the rod tip down relative to it's straight path. You compensate for this by drifting out and up at the end of the stroke. This keeps the path straight, adds even more power, lengthens the stroke, and gives the line room to drop before the next stroke.

This is best illustrated in this video at the 3:40 mark when he is holding just the rod itself. He also addresses the "squeeze" in this video.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Another way to think about it is this: some of you may have heard the ole "casting in an empty room/box" analogy. I can't take originality points for this one - first heard this from Tommy Locke (great guy, by the way, and recommend fishing with him to anyone) when he was giving my girlfriend at the time some casting tips.

OK, here goes:

Envision yourself casting along one side corner of an empty room, say 10' ceilings (part not important)..

When you cast, on both your forward stroke and back stroke, your rod's highest point (the tip, always, per the laws of physics) should be as close to the ceiling/wall corner as possible without scraping it. If you keep it within an inch of the ceiling, say, without much tip vertical displacement, that's ideal, especially as you get to the three-sided corners...this is how you get that nice tight loop. Going "corner to corner" or "Touching the corners" of the room, if you will, is the same idea Lefty discusses in the link below - i.e., not "pulling the line down" which causes a tailing loop. That's a long was of saying, the rod tip should have a nearly straight and horizontal path in a single plane; don't "pull down" on the end/stops. The magnitude of the subtle/natural or slightly curved path, or "arc" as Lefty refers to it, is what determines your loop size. You might've heard a cue from a guide/instructor who says: "try and hit your rod tip with your line" - basically the same principle. 

Additionally, regarding the "stop", think about if you wet a paintbrush and want to flick off a bunch of excess paint against the wall but without spilling any on your hand. If you start accelerating too fast/abruptly, you'll have paint dribble on your hand (law of inertia), aka "shocking the rod." Smooth acceleration, crisp stop. Some say "accelerate, ACCELERATE.... STOP"


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Pierson said:


> So i'm not sure exactly how to answer this but here goes. Yes, you add a little compensation in the cast. When you add that extra load toward the end of the stroke, yes it will bring the rod tip down relative to it's straight path. You compensate for this by drifting out and up at the end of the stroke. This keeps the path straight, adds even more power, lengthens the stroke, and gives the line room to drop before the next stroke.
> 
> This is best illustrated in this video at the 3:40 mark when he is holding just the rod itself. He also addresses the "squeeze" in this video.


Woah woah woah. The guy in that video is saying to drift AFTER the stop. I thought this is a big no no? I thought the "drift" was just lengthening your casting stroke by adding a little more rotation at the beginning and end and adding more translational movement (i.e length) to your casting stroke. This added length would be done in between the stops at your forward and back cast not after the stop. I've always been taught that you accelerate to a stop and you basically don't move from that stop until the line unrolls. What the guy in that video is saying is completely contradictory to that, but maybe that's just one of the changes I have to make for distance casting.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

rakeel said:


> but maybe that's just one of the changes I have to make for distance casting.


Exactly this! I thought the same thing when I first watched the video. When casting a normal fishing distance, say out to 70 feet, you want to do as you say and keep it to an abrupt stop. When casting further, you have a lot of line in the air, it is also a lot higher on the air. Even with a tight fast loop, it is simply in the air too long for gravity to not bring the loop into itself or the rod tip. You drift AFTER the abrupt stop to give the line some extra lift and room to straighten out. The energy is till fully transferred with the abrupt stop, the drift is what lets all that line straighten out before crashing into the ground or the loop itself. Watch how he does it in the video when he is casting and you can see what it does to the line. This was such a hard thing for me to grasp because everyone always said to cast far you have to master the abrupt stop. Then I heard people say to cast REALLY far you have to add extra drift to the stroke. Makes no sense, but makes total sense. Make sense? haha


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

There's a different video which describes the "drift" better...

The way I think of it...

Can we agree that the longer you move your rod tip from back cast to forward cast (total distance travelled, or "stroke length") the more distance/line speed you can generate (this is because you have more distance to accelerate to before the stop).



rakeel said:


> This added length would be done in between the stops at your forward and back cast not after the stop. I've always been taught that you accelerate to a stop and you basically don't move from that stop until the line unrolls.


The "drift" actually occurs after the stop, timed at the instant your line is straightening out - remember, here, your rod is no longer loaded forward, and is now beginning to get loaded the other way as the line straightens out. It's all timing thing, and something that needs to be practiced in order to get it synced correctly. This "drift" occurs right as the line is straightening out, so basically you have more distance to accelerate for your back(forward) cast. Add this to the full "body rock" movement, and you are lengthening your stoke even further.

Stroke + drift = length of stroke = more length to accelerate = good distance

Stroke + drift + rock = increased stroke length = even more length to accelerate = better distance






^ He explains it pretty well toward the end of that video, but those are essentially the elements to building up your distance.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Being 6'-5" helped


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Drift to me is letting the line tug hard enough where you reach a little towards it, letting that energy move into your arm, then bring it into the next cast. The abrupt stop is needed for energy to transfer correctly into the line, then the tug is felt as the line unrolls, then the drift.

An no offense to that dude in the video, but I noticed a few things he did wrong while watching his cast in slo mo. I am guilty of them too when I am tired or just zoned out. Cool boots and slacks though....


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

coconutgroves said:


> Drift to me is letting the line tug hard enough where you reach a little towards it, letting that energy move into your arm, then bring it into the next cast. The abrupt stop is needed for energy to transfer correctly into the line, then the tug is felt as the line unrolls, then the drift.
> 
> An no offense to that dude in the video, but I noticed a few things he did wrong while watching his cast in slo mo. I am guilty of them too when I am tired or just zoned out. Cool boots and slacks though....


Hahaha - you said that far more eloquently than me...


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Sublime said:


> Being 6'-5" helped


...Just don't turn your back to those San Francisco boys...


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## richarde206 (Sep 9, 2021)

Pierson said:


> So i'm not sure exactly how to answer this but here goes. Yes, you add a little compensation in the cast. When you add that extra load toward the end of the stroke, yes it will bring the rod tip down relative to it's straight path. You compensate for this by drifting out and up at the end of the stroke. This keeps the path straight, adds even more power, lengthens the stroke, and gives the line room to drop before the next stroke.
> 
> This is best illustrated in this video at the 3:40 mark when he is holding just the rod itself. He also addresses the "squeeze" in this video.


A subtlety in this video with George Revel that many people will overlook...he casts with his power leg forward. He's right handed, and he is casting with his right leg forward.

Why does this matter or what is the benefit of this? Many people here have already noted the importance of maintaining the rod path/plane from the front to the back cast and back again. The shoulder is a rounded joint, and with the power leg back the body wants to rotate as the casting arm comes back and the arm is extended to lengthen the stroke. This rotation tendency becomes more likely when folks start to 'look' at their backcast. Stand and pantomime casting, with your strong leg back, and then turn your head to look at your cast. Most people will turn their shoulders (some a lot, some a little). You'll find your whole body rotates, which typically causes the rod to move out of plane. The cast loses its energy and blows up. Now put your power leg forward, and repeat. Notice how much more difficult it is to rotate, improving your likelihood of keeping the cast in plane.

I've participated in as competitor and helped as a spotter in several casting contests, and being downfield in long distance casting events on grass I get to watch casters. This out of plane issue is huge. I've seen so many people do great with their false casting up until 60' or so, and then when the stroke starts to lengthen, the cast goes out of plane and everything falls apart.

Try it, you'll like it.


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## ikankecil (12 mo ago)

I wish I'd seen this video 30 years ago, it'd have potentially saved me a fortune in orthopedic surgery costs. I never found casting a full fly line all that difficult but it's possible I was tearing my shoulder apart in the process and resulted in multiple shoulder surgeries:


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Well since I'm not the one resurrecting an old thread I'll at least comment since the topic of distance casting comes up often. I'll speak specifically to casting from a skiff on the flats rather than the details of the techniques to make the cast. Practicing your casting on land to be able to cast 100' is a good thing so when you get on the water, that 70 or 80' cast isn't that big of a deal. However, if you rock your body standing on the platform like that, you'll cause the boat to throw out huge pressure waves. When your body stops moving, your motion transfers to the boat and creates a pressure wave pushing from the bow of the boat. This may not be an issue when posted up in 4-5' of water beach side waiting on a string of tarpon to come through but if you are on a skinny water flat, its equivalent to throwing rocks at the fish. The stealth required on the flats means much less upper body movement and that tends to limit how easily someone can transfer enough energy to the rod and still be relatively stealthy. If you are practicing for distance, try to employ those casting techniques as they apply to being on a skiff. That means, feet squared up, minimize your upper body motion, and still figure out how to get the power into the rod to send it. Distance will come from an efficient casting stroke. Efficient casting stroke comes from practicing proper techniques. As your cast progresses, you can add more power to get more distance.


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

Distance casting is about how well you transfer energy to the line, not the rod. 
Forget about the rod, focus on what the line is doing....and why.


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## BM_Barrelcooker (May 4, 2011)

50 foot is 50 foot


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