# Mitchell skiff project



## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

not sure this is anything worth bragging about  but here goes...

First a little history on this project. I picked this thing up in 1997, partially for nostalgia purposes and partially for a little beater skiff to blaze new trails where I didn't want to tear up my fancy-schmancy kevlar Mako 181 (hull 2 of 2).









I got the Mitchell from one of the old timers in the Miami Rod and Gun club who used it to chase bonefish and
what not around Key Biscayne where he lived. Back in the day, these skiffs were popular as bonefish skiffs, 
which was a little bit before transom mounted poling platforms came into use, so these skiffs were poled from the bow. There's still a few around in the Bahamas along with the more modern Dolphin skiffs. I couldn't say where the original Dolphin skiffs came from, but the Mitchell's were around first and there is a striking resemblance between them. 

Anyway, the way the boat was configured was OK, but I never liked it and knew I wanted to completely gut it out and reconfigure the whole thing at some point. As often happens with life, some point never happened between a major career decision, a move from Miama to Tampa, a demanding job, 2 young kids and a new custom house build, etc. So the boat stayed as it was, but I did manage to fish with it quite a bit when Trey was a little guy. Here's a few old pic's of those outings.

his first ladyfish









his first cobia (no, he wasn't bait casting back then.  I hooked the fish and handed him the rod so he could reel it in  )









Trey tending the skiff while I wade fished in upper Tampa Bay.









one of the many Flamingo snook caught in this skiff.









OK, enough of the history. Here's a run down on the original layout. Its 13'10", 56" at the waterline across the transom. Its really a pretty big little skiff.  There are two bench seats, the center seat held 2 6gallon gas cans plus a small storage hatch on each end. The rear bench was a built-in insulated cooler and two small rectangular hatches
on each rear corner.









My first attempt at the restoration project was in June 06 and at nearly 9 years is about right for me on these projects.  The plan was to start by removing the center bench seat which I loathed climbing over all the time.

















After a couple hours the center seat came out and thats how it stayed until just a couple days ago.  Now I'm back at it though and having started this thread means I have to actually see it to the end this time.  

Next is the rear bench seat... engine and hatches removed and a minor amount of demolition applied 

























water rotted wood with pooled seepage after tearing some glass out, yuk









a little reminder of why we take on stupid projects like this 









continuing with the carnage

































Just a little more left on each side and the rear bench is history

















Ok, got the side stuff out, probably about another 3 hours for the entire rear bench removal. 

































The floor is next, then the gunwhales, then the transom, then the stringers, etc.
At this point I'm beginning to remember why I put this project off for so long. ;D However, the demolition phase is the absolute worst part. Once its gutted and cleaned up the rest of it isn't so bad.

We're gonna leave this way for the moment and throw a 25hp Tohatsu on the transom this weekend and see how it runs with about 20 gallons of water under the deck and at least a gallon or two soaked into the transom. :


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

OMG. The talking about it is over.  Can't wait to see her done.


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## thresher (Dec 18, 2006)

It's starting to look a lot more like a project than, well, a boat in need of a project. I love the ample use of claw hammer. ;D It's gonna be a breeze - you'll be fishing that classic before you know it. Won't be long before you'll be hitting up CaPron for some SeaDeck. Hmmmmm. SeaDeck.......


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## redgheenoe (Apr 28, 2007)

Seepage and carnage in the same report---OMG!


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## Weedy (Dec 11, 2006)

Man Eric, you were just as ugly then as you are now........ [smiley=1-lmao.gif] [smiley=1-lmao.gif] [smiley=1-lmao.gif]

Good luck on the project [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


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## Cracka (Jul 1, 2007)

Good job Eric. Can't wait to see the finished product. Its always good to see other peoples ideas. Do you know how you are going to rig it as yet.

Mick.


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## Cracka (Jul 1, 2007)

Oh, yeah, keep the piccies coming, they're great.


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## rcmay (Dec 12, 2006)

> Man Eric, you were just as ugly then as you are now........ [smiley=1-lmao.gif] [smiley=1-lmao.gif] [smiley=1-lmao.gif]
> 
> Good luck on the project [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]



oh come on, he's def. uglier now than he was then


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

First rate post! Can't wait to see the progress. It's great to see a classic being restored and not trashed!

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle! 

Cheers


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Sweet. Let us know when you plan on holding a sanding party or what ever else you need help with. Will travel for beer ;D


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

> Sweet. Let us know when you plan on holding a sanding party or what ever else you need help with. Will travel for beer ;D


A whole new meaning to "Block Party" ;D ;D ;D

Not a bad idea. I'd bring beer to see ya block.


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

> > Sweet. Let us know when you plan on holding a sanding party or what ever else you need help with. Will travel for beer  ;D
> 
> 
> A whole new meaning to "Block Party" ;D ;D ;D
> ...



I'll bring a keg of beer! 

sweet looking bote, can't wait to see her done!

do you have a specs for mitchell skiff? I really like to know about it.


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

Beautiful little skiff. Decked out right is gonna be a fly fishin machine!!!! And on that subject, if Ron comes down there to help sand teach him how to flyfish.................


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## phishphood (Dec 15, 2006)

Showed your Heiney in one pic. Can't wait to see it done.


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

Is it done yet? ;D ;D ;D ;D You've had all day.


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## Guest (May 5, 2008)

Well Deerfly decided to come out of the closet today with his out dated POS for a skiff and brought lildeerfly along. This the skiff I have been hearing about for over a year that is so dear to his heart is a diamond in the rough. Wow - talking about a throwback that has survived the test of time. It's no wonder he wants to bring her back. She resembles a very desirable hull that has been produced form the 70's till around 2000 and still sought after by many including myself.

This build just became much more personal. Keep em coming Eric.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

thanks ron, I'm not sure I understand what it is about this thing. I guess if you genuinely appreciate little skiffs and the inherent simplicity of an open tiller boat, this thing does tend to grow on you. It has those lines that define an era too, so maybe its something that us older guys gravitate to because it takes us back to a time we wish we still had.  When I decided to get it as a project skiff over 10 years ago I had already contemplated taking on a Challenger restoration like Snookdaddy's but passed on it. So I guess some of that nostalgia and restoration stuff is in my blood. 

Aside from that esoteric stuff though, as a small skiff it holds its own very well on merit too. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread its a "big" little boat. Its easy to get around in (except for that damn center bench seat), has generous free board, handles chop really well (I have no qualms crossing miles of rough open water in this thing and have done so a few times), very dry ride for its size and poles easily and quietly. At 14' though it is very much a 2 man boat or 2 adults and a kid etc. 

In terms of the restoration plans, my ambitions since owning it was to lighten and simplify the layout. There were several aspects to this. One was of course to set the boat up to accommodate my personal style of fishing, which is a contradictory balance of live baiting and fly fishing. :-? When I wanted to exclusively fly fish, the boat had to be clutter free and anything not required be easily removed to lighten the load as much as possible, no baitwells, no batteries, no trolling motors and anything else to get in the way. Pretty much minimum USCG stuff, fuel, push pole and fly tackle. On bait fishing or combo trips all the required stuff had to be easily thrown back in.

Improving the fuel mileage while also squeaking out a little better draft as a consequence of weight loss was another ambition. When I got it, aside from the over-the-top integrated coolers, hatches and bench seats, it was showing signs of water damage too, so I knew no matter what I brought with me I was always carrying water soaked wood. After several discussions with the original owner(he bought the boat with only stringers) I knew the work was finished out by a well intentioned carpenter not an experienced boat builder. So there was little doubt the glass work was marginal and the underlying structure was over built. These doubts were proven when I first removed the center bench 2 years ago and of course last week when the rear structure was removed. 

Another angle on the fuel mileage was the engine. Although the boat is USCG rated for 50hp max, the 40hp 3cyl engine was really more power than the hull required to get on plane and was thirstier than I would have liked, especially when I fished Flamingo all the time where running 20-30 miles a day or more was typical. More often than not 12 gallons of gas was not quite enough. 

This is where captnron comes in.  He really wanted a 40hp for his future plans and I wanted a smaller more fuel efficient engine for the Mitchell. So we decided to trade motors, my used 40hp for an unused 25hp he acquired recently. Knowing full well the 25hp would need all the help it could get meant all the extra weight and water soaked wood had to come out, which is why I'm full-tilt on this project now. The 40hp would easily drag all that along and then some, but a 25hp would have to huff-n-puff quite a bit. So thats really why I'm here and now on the endeavor. The motor swap requires it  

Along those lines here's a pic of the skiff with the 25 on it yesterday after the first water test. You can see at the transom its just barely touching the bottom of water line stripe where as in the similar photo's with the 40hp the same area is almost 2" lower. The 40hp is about 40-42lbs heavier than the 25hp, so although I've lost about 30% in power I've also shed about 30% of the dead weight, which is more important to me for this project. 









Since we were still in break-in mode we weren't able to run WOT, but the 25hp worked nicely, easily planing the boat at about 1/2 throttle apprx 13-14mph, 20-22ish at 3/4 throttle. This was on 25:1 oil and a non-optimally mounted engine, about 8 gallons of gas, 48qt cooler with 10lbs ice + 6 32oz water bottles and 4 St. Pauli Girl's  , me 190lbs and my 77lb son and a little fishing tackle plus a water soaked floor and transom.  

My guess is after everything is done with this project I should get somewhere between 26-28mph +/- top end. This particular motor can be easily upgraded to a 30hp too, so my power loss will be closer to 25% if I decide to modify it. But for now the 25hp performed about as well as I would have hoped it would. 

As fer the fishing yesterday, aside from a few missed strikes on top water's the only catch of the day was herring that jumped into boat just before we loaded it up on the trailer. 









OK, back to the "plan"  This is not going to be a "spare no expense" restore, I just don't have the extra money to get crazy with it, nor is it probably worth throwing a lot of money at considering what it is. Having said that though, it will be done "right" or at least to the best of my ability. I will attempt a no-wood approach, but that may end up being too costly and not really save me much in weight over a quality light weight marine ply like okume. And it may end up being a combination of the two as well. Either foam or wood will be encased in biaxial material and epoxy resin. For example I might use wood stringers but encase them using carbon fiber tape so I can use less wood but leverage the longitudinal strength of carbon fiber. Things like that, but I really need to do more research and talk with more experienced people before I decide exactly what will happen where. 

In general though, the plan for the basic hull is to replace the stringers, transom and add a transom pocket and sponson's (18"-22"). The sponsons will give me additional poling displacement and make it a little easier for the 25hp to get and stay on plane. The pocket will off course give me some motor lift straight off the transom. (I don't even want a manual jack plate unless I absolutely need it to tweak the motor.) Plus the day a 4-stroke is a must, with sponsons the boat will be configured better to accommodate the higher weight. The floor or sole will be placed right at the water line, maybe a little higher, not sure yet. It will be foam filled where ever there is air space. I will add a 1.5" bait well overflow pipe from the center of the deck accessed via a 6" deck plate that will channel the water to the transom. That way I can put a portable oval or circular well in the middle of the cockpit and attach a flexible overflow to the under deck out flow. I'll probably add a spare bow-to-stern channel for wires or gas line or what ever too, but the primary wire channels will be under the gunwhales on each side. The rear deck will likely just be a bench seat extended out roughly 30" from the transom, open below with two or three rod tubes on each side extending rearward to the transom. The fore deck will extend about 5' from the bow into the cockpit and will also have 2-3 rod tubes on each side. I may integrate a fuel cell all the way forward or just leave the under deck area open for a portable tank and storage. The gunwhales will contour off the bow platform and extend to the stern and be a couple inches wider than the current layout. 

That's the crystal ball for now, next real step is to get the floor out! Not gonna be pretty but I'll try to take as many pic's as possible.


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## beavis (Dec 11, 2006)

Nice write up Eric, Do you even have an engine on that thing, you can barely see the hotsu on there. Good to see it is working out for you.


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## Spook (Apr 6, 2007)

If I were you, I would just use quality marine ply and quality biaxial glass. If done right, with epoxy, you'll have very good long term durability and strength, without the added expense of foam, honeycomb or CF. The weight benefits derived from using the more advanced materials will be minimal since you need much more glass to achieve sufficient puncture resistance for something like a deck or sole. Stringers made from a sandwich of marine ply and decks made from 3/8" marine ply with stiffeners underneath made from a durable dimensional lumber is all you need. 

The only thing that concerns me is the removal of the bench seat. They frequently provide lateral stiffness and it's difficult to reverse engineer that back into the boat when the seat is removed. Running half the max hp and lightening the entire boat up will probably help a great deal in that though. 

Also, sponsons and pockets have there place, but I would leave the hull as is. Changing the actual hull form is a whole different can of worms and you'll probably receive little benefit at a great expense in time and cash. When you remove hull area (by adding the pocket) you'll lose draft. Adding the sponsons seem like a good solution to that, but unless designed into the hull from the get go, the pocket/sponson combo can make the water feeding the prop really turbulent, decreasing efficiency. You'll probably be going even slower than the little motor would normally be pushing you with a minimal decrease in running draft.

I know that I push them all the time, but www.bateau.com really is the best when it comes to this stuff. If you buy your materials from them (they're the cheapest I've found anyway and they're in Vero), they'll provide you with all the support that you need in rebuilding the boat. Between the experienced regulars and the staff, the forum is a huge help. 

I've done a good bit of research into this stuff in the building of my boat, read a couple books on hull design, and all that jazz, but I am by no means an expert. This is just my opinion. Register over at the Bateau forum, post you project with pics in the Repair Techniques section, and you'll get all kinds of useful info from true professionals in the field. That will go a long way towards helping you decide what's best for you and your boat refurb. Hope that get's you started. Just my $0.02. Looks like a very cool project.

Elie


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## zero_gravity (Dec 14, 2006)

great to see your on it dog gone it ;D
good luck eric


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

thanks Eric, I'm on it alright 

Elie, yer singing my song brotha'!  So you and other readers know, I've worked for a boat company for a spell and have been messing with fiberglass since high-school (read early 70's) and have done a number of re-deck, gut jobs from the stringers on up to 24' boats. I also worked very closely with the Mako engineer on the kevlar and carbon prototype, which I owned hull 2/2 for a little over a year (see first pic of thread). To be clear I didn't drive the process, but I was 100% aware of what the layup contained and why. So I'm not a complete newbie here, but I definitely know enough to know I don't know enough and need to research and ask questions and solicit input etc before I get too far along. 

From what I understand now, I totally agree with you, okume skinned appropriately with biaxial and epoxy will work very well and if done right will last a very long time. 

I'm comfortable with the sponsons because I'll be taking a mold off the last 20" or so of the transom as it is now, which is the first step any builder would take to extend an existing hull. Not saying it isn't tricky or there won't be issues, but I've seen this done enough to know what I'm in for. I'll probably build a prototype or two from luan or something to experiment with before committing anything to glass as well. 

The boat is still very solid without the bench seats. Remember this hull was hand laid up in 1977 (pre oil crisis) and has plenty of material in it. I will probably add some biax in key places but the rod holders on each side will be glassed into the floor and the gunwhales and will supply some of that torque support you're getting at. Again your points are very well taken indeed, keep them coming (reading and thinking is relatively cheap  )


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

I know most of you are sound asleep by now, but after getting the deck off and having a look around I'm thinking my little flats princess may have been a toad.  

I cut about 6 plugs from various locations in the deck to see what the water damage was like. Well, it was pretty bad. Other than the discoloration its a little hard to tell from the pics how soaked they are, but I can tell you they were very wet, really stinky wet according to my daughter.  Also, the calipers have them at 9/16th's, so considering the glass skin I know this is 1/2" ply, which is overkill for the deck and is even worse because it holds more water than 1/4" or 3/8" would hold.


















Again, its hard to tell from these pic's but the foam is totally soaked. This is just the deck cut out, the foam is still in place but you can see from the discoloration how wet it is. I should have taken video while pushing my finger down into it so you could see the water bubble up.  

















Part of the reason for the water damage is the nails and metal fasteners the guy used to add the deck. Here you can see some of them in the floor cut-outs as well as the water soaked ply. Also, these panels are really heavy, like 30+lbs, maybe more. After getting all the decking out I wouldn't be surprised if it weighed 80lbs or more in aggregate. I don't have a convenient way to weigh all the stuff I ripped out, but I can tell you from lifting the trailer tongue by hand to move the boat around with the deck in there I had all I could do to lift it and move it a few feet. Now with the deck and foam out I can lift it easily. So water ever the weight was, its significant.

















This is a pic with all the plywood deck removed, but the foam is still in there. If you look carefully at where the center bench seat was removed, looking at the first stringer from the keel on the left, you can see where the foam is almost black. This is were fuel from the center bench leaked down into the foam and melted it.  You can also see the water pooled up near the transom, this after a few pickups with a sponge.









Here's a few more with the foam scraped out where you can see the standing water left in there.

















Whats also there and maybe hard to see is the dry woven roving covering the stringers, which means the stringers are also water damaged. We'll have a better idea how bad once I get them out, but if the deck and foam are any indicator, they are soaked to the hilt too. At this point I am also considering another water test with the 25hp since I'm sure between the water logged plywood and foam I have removed over 100lbs of material and probably more based on how the rear of my Toyota pickup is sagging with all the crap I removed from the boat in it. I'm sure the MPH numbers will improve, how much we'll have to see. 

Here's a couple shots with all the foam removed and a dog anxious to go boating again, she hasn't been the same since the Kyle Davis trip on JRH's Whipray. 


















Well thats it for now, I have my son's baseball practice and my daughters dance lessons tomorrow and a coaches meeting for my mens softball league Wednesday night, so Thursday will be the first time I get to do anything else. Stay tuned...


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## Cracka (Jul 1, 2007)

Well, Eric, you might have have the boat for over 10 years, but mate your'e making up for lost time!!!!!!

Great reports together with the write up, I nearly feel like I'm in the garage with you, except for I can't smell all that stinky foam and wood.  It's visions like that which worry me about my build of the FS18, do you think water ingress like that happens due to poor building methods/materials, or is it something that unfortunatley will always happen.  I have only had aluminium boats with polystyrene flotation, so it wasn't a problem.

You have great plans for it, keep those reports and piccies coming mate.

Mick.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

thanks Mick, although the demolition aspects of this are really obnoxious this is somewhat a labor of love for me. I love doing things myself. I just need to get through this crappy stage and it will become a lot more enjoyable. 

As far as the water ingress its really all about poor layup (dry glass material) and a well intentioned carpenter adding the deck with nails and wood screws. If the lamination is done right and not compromised via damage or puncture via fasteners then it should last forever. Where ever you need to have fasteners you need to seal the holes well and you're good to go. 

My pause on foam vs okume plywood is somewhat academic. I know I don't have unlimited funds to do this so okume is most likely the way I will go. However, I do have a good friend in high places at a major boat builder in S Florida, so I may be able to get foam core material at his cost. I need to talk with him a bit and see how much I can save going that route or if they even use the material I'm looking for, which I'm not a 100% sure of yet.  If my cost is the same or less than I can get okume for then I'll probably go the foam route. 

I'm still a little ways out on those decisions because I think I'm going to need to make a strong back of sorts to cradle this hull and retain its shape after the stringers are removed. Need to scratch my head a bit on that first.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

WOW! you have your work cut out for you! 

Cheers


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> WOW! you have your work cut out for you!
> 
> Cheers


Actually I'm probably about 70% through the worst of it. Cutting the stringers out won't be too difficult, its grinding the rough spots and left over seams that will be the major suk. Long sleeves, long pants, serious respiator and a 1/2 dz griding pads at least.


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

WOW! They really put some effort into that boat when they built it. I have a similar skiff built by Manatee Boats in the 70's, the floor is nothing more than a sheet of 3/4" P wood glassed over. No stringers. Part of the floor was rotted when I got the boat and all I did was tear out the rotted wood and feathered in layers of 3/8" and glassed over the floor. I left the benches and compartments as is, but looking at your project that has got me rethinking the layout. I'm only two coats of paint and a motor away from being be done with it. I don't know if I want to back up yet our not, so don't be shy when telling what a pain in the arse this is and help me stay focused! Good luck with this and go man go!


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> WOW! They really put some effort into that boat when they built it.


cool, you get 10 points for picking up on that one.  It usually takes someone that has shared a similar misery to notice things like that.  I was going to mention the "mil-spec over build" above but figured I'd save the commentary for when the stringers come out. But yes, those are 2"x4"'s encased in what appears to be 2 layers of roving. This may have been originally spec'd out for a military recon vessel instead of bonefish skiff. ;D


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## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

Wow! Great read. Looks like you've got a good plan and she will turn out great.

I consider going out to the garage and figuring out how to change the light bulb in my anchor light a "project." Your project appears to be a little more involved than that.


P.S. Send me a pm when you hear the first tarpon report. I'll trailer over the next day.


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## Weedy (Dec 11, 2006)

[[/quote]

1/2 dz griding pads at least. [/quote]

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! BAD MEMORIES, BAD MEMORIES, please make them stop! I'm starting to scratch all over.......AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Get a big fan to blow all thatnasty stuff away from you!!!!!!
I don't know what would be worse, grinding old wet glass and wood or grinding old nasty foam! Man Eric, I really feel for you bro!


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## Spook (Apr 6, 2007)

> As far as the water ingress its really all about poor layup (dry glass material) and a well intentioned carpenter adding the deck with nails and wood screws. If the lamination is done right and not compromised via damage or puncture via fasteners then it should last forever. Where ever you need to have fasteners you need to seal the holes well and you're good to go.
> 
> My pause on foam vs okume plywood is somewhat academic. I know I don't have unlimited funds to do this so okume is most likely the way I will go. However, I do have a good friend in high places at a major boat builder in S Florida, so I may be able to get foam core material at his cost. I need to talk with him a bit and see how much I can save going that route or if they even use the material I'm looking for, which I'm not a 100% sure of yet.  If my cost is the same or less than I can get okume for then I'll probably go the foam route.
> 
> I'm still a little ways out on those decisions because I think I'm going to need to make a strong back of sorts to cradle this hull and retain its shape after the stringers are removed. Need to scratch my head a bit on that first.


Sorry, Eric. I had assumed you were going to strip it to the hull when I was writing earlier. If I had known otherwise, I would have pushed you to do so. I'd guess that the majority of the water ingress is due to the use of polyester resin. It just doesn't bond worth a crap to wood. Even if some of the wood is still dry, it will rot out eventually, just because the polyester doesn't really offer it any protection. Stripping all the wood out and replacing it using the proper materials is the only way to avoid having to do all of this over again in the future. Also, I hate to bring it up and I'm sorry if it's already been mentioned, but have you checked to see if the transom is cored with wood? If so, it's probably in the same condition as the sole. That means cutting off the inside skin and leaving the outside skin intact, chipping/grinding out the core, replacing it with a ply sandwich, and then laminating in a new interior skin. 

I'm sure you know, but even if you can get the foam for less than ply, it's still going to cost much more to do the layup due to the increase in glass and epoxy needed. With the proper bracing underneath and with the undersole area filled with expanding foam, you can get away with using a piece of 3/8" or even 1/4" ply that is epoxy-coated and glassed only on top with 6 oz. woven as a sole. Foam will require more epoxy to coat, much more glass on both sides and much more epoxy to wet out the glass. To really get any weight benefit at all, the panels will have to be vacuum bagged on a table and then moved to the boat after curing. If I had to guess, I would say that even if you could get the core materials at the same price, the foam will probably cost close to twice as much to finish out, not including the cost of a vaccuum bag setup.

The strongback is a good idea. I might also throw a couple transverse stiffeners on there to, especially if you start messing with that walkaround gunwale cap. Whatever you need to do to maintain the shape of the boat. One thing you could do where the bench seat was is replace the rodholder with a larger one that will run down below the sole and tie into the stringer system. This will eliminate some of the flexing I think you're going to get with the absence of the seat. 

That's all I can think of for now. This will be a kickazz little boat by the time you're done. Cool project man.

Elie


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

Elie, thanks. Again you're pretty much right on with your wood vs foam etc comparison. 

- You may have missed it somewhere in the prior diatribe  but I already mentioned that the transom is coming out, so yeah its definitely water rotted and yeah its coming out.  Now getting a chunk of transom foam from my buddy may be in the cards for sure. But an Okoume sandwich will definitely work for the transom too.

- I'm thinking 1/4" double skinned okoume for the sole with backing plank's glassed in anywhere I expect fasteners, kind of like what Bob did with his FS18 sole.

- I will most definitely have rod shelves. Actually there will be two on each side, roughly dividing the space between the fore and rear deck into thirds. That way non-fly rods can go forward or back resting on 1 rod shelf. Fly rods will rest across both shelves whether they are inserted forward or back. The rod shelves will either be part of the under deck bulkhead (same piece of lumber (nesting waste is the issue here)) or laminated to it much the way you guys are doing the FS18's. If I do a continuous bulkhead I will re-face the above sole parts of the rod shelves with something. Maybe a foam sandwich like Bob did and then glass all that to the sole, hull sides and gunwhale cap after its installed. The rear bulkhead with the rod tubes extending to the transom will be 1 continuous piece as will the outer bulkhead of the fore deck too. So there will be a total of 4 primary bulkheads that will be bonded not only to the stringers and hull bottom, but also the hull sides and gunwhales. So I'm not anticipating any twisting problems. 

- After messing with the hull some more last night with the old rotten stringers still in place, I don''t think the strong back will have to be too elaborate either. The hull really is pretty stable (shape wise) resting on the trailer skids as is, especially with the gunwhale cap still on there. I can rock it back and forth side to side and there almost no flex or twisting motion on the floor. So I'm thinking I'll leave gunwhale cap on until I get the new stringers glassed in place. The problem is me climbing in there to layup the new stringers will distort the hull. So I need something lower to the ground and also keep the thing from flexing too much during the layup if I have to lean in there very hard. Once the stringers and a bulkhead or two are tied in I could lay it on the ground to finish off.


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

Elie, get to work on your FS18 & quit surfing!!! ;D


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## Guest (May 8, 2008)

> Elie, get to work on your FS18 & quit surfing!!! ;D



Hmmmmmmmmm, pot calling the kettle "black"?????? ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

Ouch! I spent all day applying some very artistic brush marks in an expensive topcoat on my FS18. Next I get to wet sand them into oblivion and probably be back to where I began the day. 2 steps forward, 3 steps back


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## Spook (Apr 6, 2007)

I have plenty of excuses, but I'm sure none that you guys would accept. ;D I probably won't get a lot done until the end of the summer, when we finish building the house I'll be staying in for the next couple years. The good news is that there is a boat/cabinet shop next door to it that I'll have full access to after I move in. It will make it much easier to work on the boat when I can just walk out to the fully appointed shop next door instead of driving 20 minutes to a cavernous warehouse with no tools. Plus, I need you guys to iron out all the bugs so mine works right the first time. 

Elie


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> I need you guys to iron out all the bugs so mine works right the first time.  Elie


ain't a thing wrong with that excuse right there, sometimes being closer to the back of the pack has its advantages.


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## Cracka (Jul 1, 2007)

> > I need you guys to iron out all the bugs so mine works right the first time.  Elie
> 
> 
> ain't a thing wrong with that excuse right there, sometimes being closer to the back of the pack has its advantages.



Here here, you guys will be sick of me asking questions by the time I even start mine. :-[

I hope not though, I've got some great info and ideas from this site, thanks guys ;D


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

ok, its about time for an update I guess... 

what started as a quick test with a 25hp over the prior 40hp has evolved somewhat to a prototype exercise. I decided to forgo gutting the stringers and rebuilding it up permanently to doing a test layout with old sign boards complements of the SkiffShop.  

In some ways I wish I just went at it with epoxy and glass, but I'm also happy I didn't. I have been able to use the boat along the way and I know now some things I thought I wanted to do initially I will probably not do on the real build. 

As always EVERYTHING takes longer than you think and for good reason. If we knew ahead of time how long it would really take we wouldn't do it. And for those that are married, would never get the buy-in from the other half that it was OK to fiddle with the boat instead remodel the house or get a little slack from the infinite honey do list. 

ok here goes... I put some some insulation foam in between the stringers and covered with sign board, so I now have a sole. Yes, gasoline will melt this stuff so I have to be very careful about fuel in the bilge, but remember this is only temporary.... 

















I also stuffed a piece into the deck on the bow to extend the bow platform. 

























For those that aren't really paying attention I decided to actually repaint the sign board (sorry Ron) with cheap walmart garage floor paint, which is actually the exact same "more expensive" paint at Lowes in a slightly different label. At $13 a gallon vs $20 at Lowes I think I'll get 2. 

And like most things, you don't always think of every thing before you act. 6" in, 6" inches out, is it too deep or not deep enough, but what if I decided I wanted to stow 2 pc fly rods somewhere? hmmm.








this could be a problem, long round peg in large triangular hole? We never stop learning, remember that. 

ok, moving on. Here we're trying to add a simple bench seat with some storage for what ever. Seems simple enough, except given the original stringer height, sign board thickness and existing transom height, typical 6 gal gas cans don't slide under there too well, especially with a little bit of something on the floor to keep them from sliding back out while bouncing around on the trailer or the high seas.  So we have to raise the original transom height...

















yeah, its a bit bush league, but remember its temporary.  

I've now removed the bench seat supports and will apply some "moisture barrier" to the parts before screwing them back together. Since I have to try to make this thing usable before heading to Choko next Thursday and we're going to Universal Studio's this coming weekend I really need to get at it. Stay tuned...


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

Keep it coming DEERFLY! I can't wait to see it when it's done!


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## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

Well, I can't tell from the pics what sign board you used...but a Barack Obama campaign sign board would have shaved 2inches of draft off that skiff......


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

> Well, I can't tell from the pics what sign board you used...but a Barack Obama campaign sign board would have shaved 2inches of draft off that skiff......


Sir, you need to read carefully to determine where that sign board was acquired. I can assure you it's not Bamaboard. 

But if the first part of your assumption were true, I would agree.


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

Hell I thought it was done already!

Have you considered carbon fiber?


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> Hell I thought it was done already!
> 
> Have you considered carbon fiber?


 no, but I was thinking black fiberglass so it would look like carbon. 

speaking of done, howz that dugout canoe coming along?


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

> > Hell I thought it was done already!
> >
> > Have you considered carbon fiber?
> 
> ...


 [smiley=1-doh.gif]


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Good stuff. I have learned a lot from you and the other forum members who are crazy enough to take on big projects like this. ;D Makes me a appreciate buying new boats even more. jk


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

Wow..not sure how I missed this thread earlier, but what a job you've undertaken!  It is looking great though!  Can't wait to see it progress to completion.


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## LoneRanger (Dec 11, 2006)

verry cool, take your time it will be woorth it!


L.R.


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## Jacbo (Jun 23, 2007)

Had to bring this thread back from the dead when I saw this: http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/1554699148.html

I was like "Man, that's a sweet looking hull." Then I saw the 25 'hatsu, Awesome deck layout, and use of the word "microskiff" and thought... "wait a minute, I know that boat!" ;D

So I guess she never really got finished? :-?
I wish I could take her home and make her my project but time and money do not allow... :-/


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

The boat has been for sale since deerfly sold it. Someone must of thought they could flip it. Not sure if its the same guy or if it has change hands a couple of times. First time I saw it on craigslist the price was ridiculous. If I remember correctly 2 - 3 times what its posted for right now. 

Honestly $2200 is a good price if the motor has been kept up. Its easily worth $1500. When deerfly sold it had very low hours. 

It would be cool to see it get picked up and restored by a forum member.


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## franklin.howell (Aug 11, 2009)

Just a little info on the Dolphin Super Skiff mentioned early in this posting. I believe it was originally born from a skiff called the "Banana  River Skiff" that was built up the coast near Titusville (I think ) in the mid 1970s. The fellow that came up with the hull design was Dave Exeley. I had one back then and it was identical to the current Dolphin Super Skiff of today but had a totally flat bottom. I still see a few around doing weed removal in suburban lakes. Exeley sold the molds to Jack Broyle in South Miami who I believe started Dolphin boats and changed the bottom of the hull into a 18 degree deadrise  (hence the great soft ride) that it is today.


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## 345davex (Jan 19, 2010)

Howdy fellow skiff lovers -
I am the Dave Exley mentioned above.  A buddy contacted me and directed me to your forum and this thread.  It looks like a really great forum, so I signed in and thought I'd chip in my knowledge.
The Mitchell skiff of this thread is a good little boat and part of it was incorporated in my small Banana River Skiff and Super Skiffs.  Seeing *deerfly*'s photos reminds me of all the fun I've had building small skiffs, and it also makes me itch all under.
About 1976, my wife and I were tent camping at Sandsprit Park in Stuart and I saw an identical 14' Mitchell being hauled out at the boat ramp.  I really liked the forward side flare and generous bow deck.  The owner (wish I could remember his name) generously agreed to let me to make a mold off his boat.  Not wanting to cross Russ Mitchell, I gave him a call and asked permission to splash part of the 14' Mitchell skiff.  Russ laughed and said "Sure, but I don't know who to refer you to because I splashed it off another boat sometime ago and we do so much of that back and forth that I can't remember where that one came from."  So I took that as permission and the fiberglass guys at Stuart Angler in Port Salerno gelcoated and chopped the Mitchell's sides and partway under the rolled chine for me.  So the sides and about 4 inches below the spray rail of the Mitchell became part of the Banana and Super Skiffs. Starting with that that I extended the sides at the back to about 15'6" to 15'10", depending on the iteration, and created the indented transom which formed aft boxes like the Hewes Bonefisher and my bigger 17'10" Super Skiff.
Over the next few years, we squared up the rolled chine, made a version with a 4' wide bottom and another with a 5' wide bottom.
Deep Water Cay Club bought a few of those 5 wides with a balsa cored bottom, then I added the V-bottom to have a more comfortable ride from DWCC to their permit flats, about 10 miles away across an open sound.  A standard forefoot would more easily bury in the sand, so I made the V with a cutaway forefoot and flat shoe so the boat could go in shallower water, then kept the chine level to help with bouyancy.  An unexpected benefit was that level chine stayed underwater when an angler was on the bow and thus eliminated chine slap, creating the silent stalking flats boats seen everywhere today.  I should have patented that.  It was almost 10 years before anyone figured it out, then Scott Deal of Maverick asked for permission to incorporate the level chine design in a new boat he called the Mirage and afterwards others copied it too.  I still respect Scott for asking for permission.
My little company went out of business in the recession of the early 80's (my own fault -- always spending on R&D and not enough $$ cushion.)  I leased the V-bottom molds to my friend Jack Broyl of Dolphin Boats and he eventually bought them from me.  I had been building some custom flat bottom Banana River Skiffs for an aquatic weed control company in Ft Lauderdale and they bought those molds so they could keep making them for their growing business. Every now and then I still see those little boats with spray tanks installed going down the highway.  With those flotation boxes and a tiny outboard on the indented transom, those are ideal for launching off a steep pond bank without flooding the boat.
That's how I remember it and that's enough for now.
Whatever you do, have fun (even when working with fiberglass you can always find something to laugh about!)
Sincerely,
Dave


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Mr, Exley,

Thank you for taking time to stop by and add you knowledge to our site. Many of us are suckers for all the history of the progression of these skiffs. 

Thanks again!

Cheers


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

What he said... 

And if you have any photos of those original hulls,
they'd look awful good in the Classics section.


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## brew1891 (Dec 10, 2006)

I had a question Mr. Exley, FMH, or anyone else. I saw a Back Country Ghost the other day and the hull beared a striking resemblance to the dolphin at least to the eye. Anyone know how this hull came about or an I just wrong on the resemblance? Is it a progeny of any of these boats or simply a borrowing of tried and true design features?


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## 345davex (Jan 19, 2010)

Yep. The Ghost bottom incorporates the level chine design. Funny story: years ago I dropped by the Maverick booth at the Miami Boat Show. While small talking with Scott Deal, he said I ought to walk over to the adjacent Ranger booth and tell them they had stolen my design. So I looked, saw the Ghost, and the Ranger salesmen came around to sell one to me. I asked them 'did you know you've copied my hull design?" The salesmen disappeared and did not return, staying huddled in their booth. Mean trick, I guess, but it made it easier for me too look over their boat without interference. In fact, I don't have exclusive right to the design because I did not patent it, so I have to consider it a donation to whomever wants to use it. Besides, hardly anybody's heard of me or knows any of this (until now.) My next significant design will be protected.
ps - Brett - when I get a chance I will post some classic photos -- I have some nobody has ever seen and some interesting stories too.
All for now. Have fun out there!
Dave


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I'll be watching for the photos Dave.
I haven't found much digging around the web.
Only pics from fishing lodges around the Carribbean.


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## Jacbo (Jun 23, 2007)

> I'll be watching for the photos Dave.


Me Too! ;D


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

Dave, been away from the forum for a while and happened to stumble into this thread again. Thanks for filling in some missing links on the Mitchell/Dolphin similarities. As I stated at the beginning of this thread, growing up in S Fl during that era I sort of knew about this lineage, but that knowledge came mostly as bait shop folklore. Never anything firsthand so it was fun to finally read your account on how things transpired.  

Also, I'm on record here and probably more than once talking about the zero-hull slap on that old Mitchell. Every time I see the newer manufacturers clamoring about that innovative new feature I laugh like hell. You're right, you should have patented it.

As far as old classic pic's I don't have any, but another forum member here posted this shot a few years back and I saved it to my computer. Bills photo really stirs the emotions and takes me back to the time when fly fishing was more of a gentlemen's sport without all the hype, sizzle and designer clothing.  










Not a classic pic and I imagine I posted this somewhere around here already too, but its me with one of the first bonefish I caught shortly after buying the Mitchell. The fish was caught at West Arsenicker key, S Biscayne bay. It may sound silly to some, but catching fish like that in that old boat made me feel like I rode a time machine back 20 some years and relived the experience of those that blazed the trail before me.


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

Was this project scrapped or sidelined for the Panga?


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> Was this project scrapped or sidelined for the Panga?


scrapped unfortunately. After much toiling over how to proceed, I realized that as much as I wanted to restore it properly, I needed something a little bigger for the area I fish now. So with much angst, I listed it on CL as it was and sold it pretty quickly, like 2, maybe 3 weeks. 

It was a bittersweet transaction given all the memories with the Mitchell, but the Panga has fulfilled and or exceeded every one of my expectations. 

My requirements aside, this little Mitchell is still a remarkable and versatile skiff. It would make a great project for someone finish off. Too bad the new owner has set such unrealistic prices for it.  : 

I would love nothing more than to see someone pick it up and go. Hell, if I lived close enough, I'd offer to help when I could. That boat has some serious mojo.


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