# Challenger



## backwaterbandits (Dec 15, 2006)

That is a great find Brett. I've seen this before but had forgotten
 about it.
  I remember seeing an old Walkers Cay where Flip Pallot was 
 poling Stew Apte around on a boat that looked a lot like a challenger
 by standing on the cowl of an 'ol V-4 outboard...No platform.
  Very cool stuff! I would love it if someone could put together a
 "complete" history of the evolution of the skiff/flats boat while 
 most of the participants are still around to tell the tale.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I never understood the fascination with the Challenger.
I worked on one owned by a friend in the early '70's.
And had one myself that was a freebie, given to me
because a property owner found it when he was cleaning out
a brush pile in a vacant lot he was clearing. Both hulls
still had the plywood decks and seating from the runabout
configuration they originated as. The fiberglass to resin ratio
of both hulls was resin heavy. Both chipped very easily.
No floatation, 2 small, molded in stringers. Both hulls ended up
being sold to people who were driving by, and just had to have
that neat old skiff. Can't say no when the price is right.
They spent a small fortune rebuilding those hulls. At the time
You could have bought 2 new 17 Whalers with brand new 90s
for what they put into rebuilding 'em. What ever makes you happy.
The hulls did have some very attractive curves, but the gunnel lip,
where the plywood deck attached to, was mostly resin and cracked
easily.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Pictures I took in ENP on a 2008 trip.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Man what a skiff! How I wish I could get a classic skiff! :-/


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Previous post:

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1220323866


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

While hunting for pics of the original configuration
of the Challenger runabout, I found the site shown below.
This 1954 hull is set up just like the hull I had. My friend's,
had the steering in the forward cockpit. One big difference,
this hull is wood, made in Canada and older.
Still, it has the same lines as the fiberglass versions
from the late '50s

http://www.richardlpaquette.ca/CanadianChallenger.htm


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

> I never understood the fascination with the Challenger.
> I worked on one owned by a friend in the early '70's.
> And had one myself that was a freebie, given to me
> because a property owner found it when he was cleaning out
> ...


I restored and own the Yellow Challenger that's in the everglades pictures above.

Mine is a 1982 and was manufactured by Perfection Industries. My Challenger is nothing like what you describe in your post... The hull is foam-cored throughout with Kledgecell, except for the stringers (3) and a foam and plywood core transom. The fiberglass work is exceptional and has a very low resin to cloth ratio. I know this because I got a chance to see every little detail while restoring her.

Most, if not all of the original Challenger hulls that were converted into flats skiffs were gutted and rebuilt with plywood or foam cored decks. The original Challengers could be a little heavy due to the overbuild nature of fiberglass boat manufacturing from that era. 
I have seen a few original Challengers with 90hp on them. This would be extreme overkill on my skiff as the hull only weighs about 375lbs and runs 34.5mph (gps verified) with my Yamaha 40hp. 

Perfection Industries was a custom boat builder (high end) that built a couple of flats ready Challengers for buyers who paid the $4500 upfront (hull only). Only few were sold, but man, did they do a great job on mine. I know of no other foam cored Challengers out there except mine. Please let me know if anyone has ever seen another example. One awesome feature is the cutting edge (back then) gutter system found on every hatch. Ask Hal Chittem or Flip Pallot where they got the idea for the Hells Bay hatches and you'll know what I mean... The hatches are BONE dry and that's saying a lot from a early 80's skiff.

The "Big Deal" with (to be continued)


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

I have watched the rebuild of your skiff over the years. What an incredible job!

There is a buddy who I know who has a much older Challenger wit the 90. It scoots! 

I hope you can put put up your build here. We would ALL appreciate the hard work you put in. She's a great looking skiff!

Cheers


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Howdy SD, I saw your rebuild post on another forum,
it would be great to see the same and more pics posted here.(hint-hint)
I believe that your hull is a Wind River Challenger.
A different hull than the originals that were converted by Flip Pallot,
Bill Hempel and Skip Soule. I'm going from memory, but I think
Flip was the one who widened the original Challenger hull and
added the transom sponsons. That mold was the one the later
Wind River Challengers were built from. The original fiberglass hulls,
that were built in the late 50's early 60's were not the best examples
of fiberglass and resin structures. The technology was new and not
fully understood. Hulls built in the 70's onwards were greatly different.
Both in fiberglass layup, stringers and deck configurations.
I'd like more history on your hull if you would, and more pics.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for posting SD. 

I'm with Brett, I would also like to see your build posted in this section even if you think it should be split from this thread to distinguish different hulls.

CR/TSS


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## Weedy (Dec 11, 2006)

It was kinda funny when we were down in the glades with Snookdaddy's boat at the dock. We were ALL standing there looking at it with our mouths watering! Great looking boat and you could not tell that it was as old as it is. She is one FINE looking boat!


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

yeah, aside from being pretty good shallow water skiff, they have that classic sports car look sort of appeal in a boat. SD's is a creme puff buy any measure too. Definitely the best I've seen. - eric


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

This skiff was completely restored from the stringers up. The Owner is Tommy of Bluewater Chairs. If you have seen his chairs you know the amount of detail and craftmanship he can produce. This is Tommy's personal skiff/project. Budget was NOT in the equation when he put her back together. Capt Karl Glockner was Tommy's mentor with the rebuild.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

yup, looks like a dandy restore too. I'm sure the pictures don't do it justice either, although the FL numbers do look like crap.  

The back rests look sort'a familiar too, is there a fighting chair mount on the bow?  ;D


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

The cockpit looks shallow to allow for the self bailing. Don't know if I would have done it line that... The spray rails too, might have left those natural depending on their condition. 

But otherwise, it's a serious looker!


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> The cockpit looks shallow to allow for the self bailing


Now that's funny... ;D
Look how far above the waterline the scupper drains are located.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

based on my untrained eye, looks to be about half way up?

What advantages would a deeper cockpit and sump based drainage vs shallower cockpit and self bailing?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Self bailing means no surprise electric pump noise in shallow water.
Important to a guide who makes a living from giving the client a shot at record fish.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

My thought exactly... Plus at rest at a dock if it rains... I don't want to rely on a pump to evacuate the water. 

My old 17T was Maverick style of self bailing. If two people sat on the back water would flow in, had to run and trim to drain the cockpit. The Egret 16 on the other hand... self bailing and that was at rest with two anglers sitting on the back...

I'm trying to get another person who I know has a old Challenger on here to share his.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Ran an image search using google,
input was "1956 Challenger"
this turned up, a converted 1956 Challenger.
Looks like a long wait until the tide gets back...



click on the thumbnail to see the original image


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I'll toss my two cents worth in here. Many years ago I fished with Bill Hempel out of his Challenger, the "High & Dry". He ran that skiff hard out of Flamingo and my backside still remembers that ride... One of the reasons that little boat was so popular is that it was the only really small skiff for poling shallow in the seventies (this was long before Hells Bay and the advent of really well designed small skiffs for shallow water poling). Old hulls could be found for little money, gutted, then re-built to the owner's desires depending on your finances. The one skiff I was never able to fish out of was John Emery's... He was probably the premier poling guide out of Flamingo in the late seventies and early eighties. One feature of the old round chine Challenger (there were actually two distinct hull configurations under the Challenger banner, a round chine and a hard chine hull) was the ability to lay the skiff over on it's side and spin up in shallow water. You could actually have the water almost up to the gunnels in turns without blowing out since there wasn't any tunnel configuration just a fairly flat bottom at the stern. That feature allowed you to hop and skip over shallow areas back into basins - long before everyone became conscious of how that wasn't very good for the flats... In those days there were a lot fewer boats on the water and many really shallow areas where fish never saw a skiff at all. That's all changed now.

The guy who taught me what little I know about fiberglass and rigging skiffs was Bill Aman, of Aman Plastics, who's long since retired. He started out as a glass man working in the old Challenger plant in the fifties and did the the custom glass work on many a Challenger re-build. As a member of the Tropical Anglers Club (I joined that club in 1976) he had a steady supply of customers who wanted this or that changed in their rigs... I built or re-built several of my hulls in his shop.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

A pic of High and Dry...



click on the thumbnail to see the original image


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## East_Cape (Jun 3, 2008)

> Ran an image search using google,
> input was "1956 Challenger"
> this turned up, a converted 1956 Challenger.
> Looks like a long wait until the tide gets back...
> ...


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Wouldn't it be funny, if all the fuss about Challenger hulls,
was started by the use of those hulls by the Parker boat rental company.
Looks like an old Challenger with the original deck configuration.

Shark River, 1954


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

> Shark River, 1954


Wow how much has changed, yet stayed the same.


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## EricY (Mar 24, 2008)

I have a bunch of other pics at home that I will try to post, but here is one of a square chine challenger I already have up on the web.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

I have an opportunity to check Bill Hempel's old "High and Dry" Challenger. It's been completely refurbished and is local to me. I'll post pix asap!


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## EricY (Mar 24, 2008)

Original Challenger Brochure.  Sorry it's a little small.


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## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

Thanks Bob for allowing me to grab a couple of pics.  I will post more up in the next couple of days.  Here is a teaser for everyone.

-Richard


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## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

Got them up quicker than I thought I would.  This is a sweet rig!



















We found these poons in the pass.  Bob managed to jump in front of the line....they started rolling hard right to the boat!  Even they couldn't stand how good it looked.









What the boat was made for!  This was some insane skinny water.









Glam Shot


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Great pix! thanks for sharing.


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

Yep, that's my baby in the pics above. Great photos Richard!


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## Redfly (Nov 14, 2007)

She has turned out to be quite a toy there Bob, you've added many creature features since I fished it back in '04 somewhere around orange island in ML


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

I see all of my old photos are on here. There were a number built up Challengers around the 1979-80 build up time of mine. I can remember at least a dozen, including Flip's which I patterned mine after and improved on. Impressive that it's still fishing after 53 years since new.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Welcome to the forum. Good to see someone from the old neighborhood showing up here.
It would be great if you would add a few more of your pics to this thread, with the background story that goes with them.










For instance, how much work was it to get this boat that high and dry?


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## out-cast (Jan 27, 2009)

What's with the red straps in the pics above? Trailer straps?


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## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

They are straps to hold his stick-it anchor pin. One for each side of the stern.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Brett. I don't think you get it about making these into shallow water skiffs. You do not keep the plywood, stringers, etc. Just the hull and go from there. If these are so poor a choice, why are so many around after 50 years? I've been through three of them. My best one, a '56, is still going strong via someone rebuilding it again. Darn sight cheaper then a Hell's Bay.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Like my brochure, do 'ya. I've saved it for over thirty years



> Original Challenger Brochure.  Sorry it's a little small.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

That is not a Challenger. Close, but no pickle for you



> Wouldn't it be funny, if all the fuss about Challenger hulls,
> was started by the use of those hulls by the Parker boat rental company.
> Looks like an old Challenger with the original deck configuration.
> 
> Shark River, 1954


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Dang, and I like kosher dills!  

I understand the fascination with antique hulls,
But after stripping off all the original lumber on my Mako model Challenger,
and seeing the amount of resin in the gunnels and the chips spalling off the exterior,
when offered cash by a die-hard aficionado, I took the cash.
Yes, great lines, and with a bit of work easily upgraded.
Still, looking back, I don't regret selling the boat.
I remember seeing your's zip past me a time or two, and thinking:
Damn, that's a sweet looking hull, just not for me.
Probably because I needed a boat for inshore, offshore and diving. And I couldn't afford 3 boats.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Bill,

Do you know the story/history with the round chine vs square? 

Thanks!

BTW, it was an absolute pleasure and honor to have met you and Mr Howell the other day! My son said to me as we left... "daddy is he as good a fisherman as you?" I told him no... he's MUCH better than daddy! ;D


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

> Bill,
> 
> Do you know the story/history with the round chine vs square?
> 
> ...


Thank you much for the adoration! Seriously though, the person with the real story on round to square is Al Pflueger, Jr. if you can reach him somehow. I think Bill Curtis could help on that, or Mark at the Fly Shop in Bass Pro Dania Beach. Al was part of the team during the square chine time. Al is a rather quiet guy and laid back, so treat him nice and he'll be the same. There's a lot of pro and con between the round and square.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Here's a Challenger hull I found many years ago in a North Miami front yard. It was in the weeds on a rusted out trailer. Brought it home and eventually sold it to a Mike Haynes.



> > Bill,
> >
> > Do you know the story/history with the round chine vs square?
> >
> ...


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

1980. This is how I got one Challenger home.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Hum... car topper Challenger... Now that could have possibilities. ;D


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Posting old timer Harry Friedman's square chine Challenger around 1985. Harry lived in Miami Beach on canal off north Biscayne Bay at the time. He was really one of the true originals and was a hound for Snook, Bonefish, Trout and Tarpon. He fished this area in the 40's, 50's and on. He passed away in the 90's. His photo's are in the fly shop at Bass Pro in Dania Beach holding a Bonefish and another with I beieve is Rolly Hollenbeck, a guide of the time. Those photo's came from my old albums which I sold to Tom Reich of Aquarious Rods in Miami Springs years ago. He was around 72 at the time. Wish I had better, but it is what it is. The boat sports the original Bonefish model cap. Harry did a lot of weight adding modifications for his convenience. i will post another photo of it.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

This is the one other photo of Harry Friedmans Challenger square chine.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Thought I'd throw in a photo of Harry Friedman and some of his friends. John Knight stands out. If anyone remembers the Solunar Tables by John Alden Knight, they were published in the paper and in a booklet form. Basically the exact thing you get now when looking up the best fishing and hunting days and times on many tide programs, etc.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

That's my old Challenger "High 'N Dry" on its third owner before it got rebuilt as it is today



> Ran an image search using google,
> input was "1956 Challenger"
> this turned up, a converted 1956 Challenger.
> Looks like a long wait until the tide gets back...
> ...


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Harry Friedman was an amazing guy... When I met him he was an old boy with only a few years left. His fly tying skills were still first rate and he was always willing to share with a young guy just learning to tie... My first bonefish fly that actually worked was something he taught me how to tie.

I believe he was almost a charter member of the old Miami Beach Rod & Reel club and at one time (circa 1948) actually had a house just north of Boca Chita on the outside edge of Biscayne Bay. Some of the photos from that era showed Harry and friends with racks of bonefish (this was before catch & release). He was actually a contemporary of Joe Brooks who wrote the first popular books on fly fishing in saltwater in the early fifties... and you can see a few photos of Harry in at least one of his books.

The fish that Harry was proudest of during his club years was a 72lb tarpon on 12lb tippet. Today we wouldn't think much about it. In those days, they thought that a shock tippet wasn't sporting... Can you imagine how many fish you'd have to hook to keep one connected on purely 12lb tippet?

I was never lucky enough to be able to fish with him, but got to meet and learn a bit from him at the old Uslan Tackle shop in north Dade county. That old Challenger sat on the dock behind his house but wasn't getting much use when I knew him in the late seventies... I once started an article titled "I never fished with Harry..." but never finished it. Wonder if it's still around.


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Bob. Thanks for the additional knowledge on Harry. Quite a personality, wasn't he. He'd help anyone with any interest in fishing. First met him at Uslan Rod's in Uleta. Abe Gaspar introduced me to him. Don't forget about Bob Kay that fly tyed there. His photo is below. I had the pleasure of one Biscayne Bay run for Trout in the Challenger square chine (quite an operation putting it in the water off his dock with his hoist), and one run in his aluminum skiff for Bass in the Everglades. A large part of it was the trip's food preparation by Harry and Dottie (She was a very nice lady). The Challenger even had a built-in food locker. Little do people know that he owned a professional design firm that engineered many of the Miami Beach hotel kitchens, including the Fountainbleu's. I do seriously wish I knew where his old photo's and films were now. I don't know what happened to his wife Dottie after he passed on..


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## billhempel (Oct 9, 2008)

Check out "High 'N Dry" - Bill Hemple's Challenger Bonefish thread above


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