# Grain weight for cortland guide 8 wt



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Devin, what area do you live and fly fish? I take it somewhere mid to south FL, based on that nice linesider! 

There are 2 different versions of Cortland's Liquid Crystal. The Liquid Crystal itself in an 8wt line is actually an 8wt line. But the "Guide" is Cortland's way of adding weight to a line so it loads quicker (much like a Rio Redfish) without shortening the head (unlike what Rio's Redfish line does) or without overlining it by 1 line wt. So the 8wt LQ Guide is actually 8.5wt . So I wouldn't recommend the LQ Guide for you, just the LQ. I like the LQ for good line control without crashing down on the water.

On another note, if you don't like the Rio Redfish, but like the feel of the line, then try the Rio General Purpose saltwater Tropic line. It's a lighter line with a longer head to help shoot further, but a more aggressive taper than a Rio Bonefish line (not the Bonefish Quick Shooter, which is basically a Rio Redfish line). The Rio Bonefish line is light, long head and thinner for casting bonefish flies that weighs nothing, at a distance in wind. Rio's General Purpose saltwater Tropic line will carry standard inshore flies, mildly bushy flies and lighted weighted flies better, with a better presentation than the Redfish, which tends to crash. It will also shoot well in wind and at longer distances, except you need to carry more of the head in the air, to load the rod properly, as opposed to the Redfish.

Staying on with the Rio line, if you are a little more experience and want a little more line control, controlling fly distance in mid-air, plus your flies are a little smaller and lighter than your bigger, heavier inshore flies (say you are fly casting stealthy, smaller redfish flies to shallow water reds or laid up snook, set trout or small rolling juvi tarpon, from a distance (like here in Florida)), then a Rio Permit would be a good Rio choice for that. The line is a split between a Bonefish line and a General Purpose saltwater Tropic line.

SA Mastery series Saltwater is also a good choice, for a general purpose inshore line. Also the AirFlo Bruce Chard's Tropic Punch is another line simular to the Rio Permit's feel and use..

Ted Haas


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## Devin1128 (Aug 8, 2015)

Thanks Ted I like the Rio Redfish on my NRX 1 piece but I have acquired the new Asquith and it feels good with the redfish but the rod loads really easy so I was thinking about going to something a little less aggressive . I have and SA Bonefish but that is a little bit to light I was trying to find something in between maybe.


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## Devin1128 (Aug 8, 2015)

Oh yeah I live in central Florida and mostly fish in tomoka marsh , and basin area . Mostly 30 to 60 ft shots .


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper hands down. I've fished so many lines and ended up there last. Wish I could have started there - I would have saved lots of $$$ and frustration.


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## jtt (Dec 29, 2016)

Can't go wrong with Cortland LQ

Never tried the Bermuda, have wanted too.. but the shorter head has spooked me off


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Devin1128 said:


> Thanks Ted I like the Rio Redfish on my NRX 1 piece but I have acquired the new Asquith and it feels good with the redfish but the rod loads really easy so I was thinking about going to something a little less aggressive . I have and SA Bonefish but that is a little bit to light I was trying to find something in between maybe.


Congrats to the first admitted Loomis Asquith owner on this forum. I have not cast the rod yet, but I am a fan of the 1 pc NRX and Cross Current. I know it is a lot lighter than the NRX but if it is also more accurate I would love to use it.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I have an open invitation to go with a friend and fish the Asquith and try it out. Just been a little busy with work, but hopefully, I'll get down there soon to try it. I was told that it will be the winner of the "8-Weight Shootout this year, hands down." Completely different style of rod than the NRX 1 piece. The Asquith is faster in the tip than the NRX 1 Piece. Also overall, it's faster than the Meridian I hear.

Keith.... coconutgroves..... You're killin me.... twisting my arm.... banging my head against the wall....  about the Wulff BTT! 

LOL 

I've thrown Wulff's TT's before (and it was ok...but....) but not the BTT. I think you are leaving me no choice but to try one out and give it the thorough college try.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> I have an open invitation to go with a friend and fish the Asquith and try it out. Just been a little busy with work, but hopefully, I'll get down there soon to try it. I was told that it will be the winner of the "8-Weight Shootout this year, hands down." Completely different style of rod than the NRX 1 piece. The Asquith is faster in the tip than the NRX 1 Piece. Also overall, it's faster than the Meridian I hear.
> 
> Keith.... coconutgroves..... You're killin me.... twisting my arm.... banging my head against the wall....  about the Wulff BTT!
> 
> ...


Can't believe you haven't tried the btt, of all the people on this board. Time to step up your game Ted. It's an awesome line. Between that and the lq those are my go to lines for the most part.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

el9surf said:


> Can't believe you haven't tried the btt, of all the people on this board. Time to step up your game Ted. It's an awesome line.


LOL


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

Ted,
You apparently have a lot of experience - I too would love to hear your view of the bermuda triangle taper. I also love this line - it has basically ended my quest and desire to try different lines. I would love to hear how it stacks up versus the Bruce Chord tropical punch. Ability to push the line in the wind and distance is usually my number one priority, as it seems to always be needed down here.


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## Limp Shrimp (Aug 23, 2015)

Devin1128 said:


> Wondering if anyone knows the grain weight for cortland guide 8wt. I'm trying to find something a little lighter than the rio redfish .


If you really want an accurate ##, I would pick up a scale for weighing mail from staples and measure it up against the lines you have yourself.. The manufactured weights are not accurate... I'm a big fan of the Rio permit taper that Ted mentioned...


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## FSUDrew99 (Feb 3, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper hands down. I've fished so many lines and ended up there last. Wish I could have started there - I would have saved lots of $$$ and frustration.


I casted some Wulff line on my buddys rod and it was very nice. I could tell right off the bat it had less line memory than my Cortland line.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

jtt said:


> Can't go wrong with Cortland LQ
> 
> Never tried the Bermuda, have wanted too.. but the shorter head has spooked me off


There are two Bermuda Triangle Tapers. The standard taper, which is a 30' head and 75' running line. The other is the Shorts, which is a 22' head.

The shorter head is what makes this an easy casting, fast loading line. If a line has a 45' head, the weight is spread throughout 45'. With a 10' leader, this means you need 55' to have all the weight outside the tip of the rod and in the air. That's not ideal, imo. Not many people can pick up 55' of line. But they can pick up 40', which makes recasting a breeze on the Bermuda Triangle Taper. I can pick up 40' and get it to 70' with no false cast.

I use the standard taper for pretty much every species from reds to tarpon. I did rig my 7 wt with the Shorts this year for reds and like how quickly the 22' head loads and how easy it is to cast for close in shots.

The Cortland's I tried did have a coiling problem - the worse out of any line I've used. I had a 10 wt crystal intermediate line for poon that was so bad I swapped it out on the first trip I used it. And I stretch my lines and run coils out. I wasn't impressed.


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## flyz (Jan 2, 2017)

I really want to try the BTT, just don't know what rod I want to try it on.. Maybe my 8wt Method? I've been using Airflo Ridge Tropical clear tip and like it but it does coil a lot and I primarily wade fish so this can be aggravating. I do like how the Airflo handles the wind here in Hawaii though, no issues there. Since Airflo is heavier, if I wanted to keep the same wind characteristics that I like about the Airflo would you recommend overlining the BTT?


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Backwater said:


> Devin, what area do you live and fly fish? I take it somewhere mid to south FL, based on that nice linesider!
> 
> There are 2 different versions of Cortland's Liquid Crystal. The Liquid Crystal itself in an 8wt line is actually an 8wt line. But the "Guide" is Cortland's way of adding weight to a line so it loads quicker (much like a Rio Redfish) without shortening the head (unlike what Rio's Redfish line does) or without overlining it by 1 line wt. So the 8wt LQ Guide is actually 8.5wt . So I wouldn't recommend the LQ Guide for you, just the LQ. I like the LQ for good line control without crashing down on the water.
> 
> ...


Really good information Ted! I have used several of the lines you mentioned and your description is right on. I just started using Bruce Chard's Tropic Punch and really like that line as an all around line for my 8wt. The redfish tapers are to heavy for my liking, the bonefish taper is a good line for it's purpose, to cast long distance with light flies. Everything is a compromise, but the that Chard line will give you a shot a just about any thing that swims your way. I got to say that in my opinion, I find that the running line on Rio's tangles very easily, you really have to make sure you stretch them well before laying them in a casting basket. Thanks for the information.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

flyz said:


> I really want to try the BTT, just don't know what rod I want to try it on.. Maybe my 8wt Method? I've been using Airflo Ridge Tropical clear tip and like it but it does coil a lot and I primarily wade fish so this can be aggravating. I do like how the Airflo handles the wind here in Hawaii though, no issues there. Since Airflo is heavier, if I wanted to keep the same wind characteristics that I like about the Airflo would you recommend overlining the BTT?


If you like the airflow - then you'll like the BTT. The airflow ridge with clear tip is my other line - they are both great. I do not have any coil issues with either line. How big of a reel do you have airflow on - meaning the reels diameter. When I switched out to larger diameter eels I saw all of my coiling issues go away.
I have the regular BTT on my 9 wt, and the BTT with lost tip slow sink on my 11 wt, snd the airflow 11 wt also. All 3 lines are awesome and easy to cast. Like groves said, I can pick up 40 feet and shoot to about 70 without a false cast as well with the regular BTT on my 9 wt. I have all of these lines on NRX pro1's. Every time I try other lines I am not impressed - they all are tough to cast to me by comparison. I am interested in trying the tropical punch, though.


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## jtt (Dec 29, 2016)

coconutgroves said:


> There are two Bermuda Triangle Tapers. The standard taper, which is a 30' head and 75' running line. The other is the Shorts, which is a 22' head.
> 
> The shorter head is what makes this an easy casting, fast loading line. If a line has a 45' head, the weight is spread throughout 45'. With a 10' leader, this means you need 55' to have all the weight outside the tip of the rod and in the air. That's not ideal, imo. Not many people can pick up 55' of line. But they can pick up 40', which makes recasting a breeze on the Bermuda Triangle Taper. I can pick up 40' and get it to 70' with no false cast.
> 
> ...


Interesting... The Cortland fits my casting perfectly, haven't had any real issues with the coiling. I stretch and dress my lines often. Over the years have come to prefer the longer head, pick ups haven't been an issue. But definitely want to give the triangle a shot but I think Cortland is the best poon line out there


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

coconutgroves said:


> There are two Bermuda Triangle Tapers. The standard taper, which is a 30' head and 75' running line. The other is the Shorts, which is a 22' head.
> 
> The shorter head is what makes this an easy casting, fast loading line. If a line has a 45' head, the weight is spread throughout 45'. With a 10' leader, this means you need 55' to have all the weight outside the tip of the rod and in the air. That's not ideal, imo. Not many people can pick up 55' of line. But they can pick up 40', which makes recasting a breeze on the Bermuda Triangle Taper. I can pick up 40' and get it to 70' with no false cast.
> 
> ...


Cortlands older crystal line had coating and memory problems. The newer LQ is better, tho colder water and climates doesn't fare well with their clear floater. Their Sky Blue and Guide seems to do better for some reason in cooler water, and both about the same in warm weather and warm waters over 75 degrees..

Keith, I know you know all this, but to explain it to others, here's some thoughts they can pick up on. What you described on the TT's head lengths, is much line other mgf's heads. Shorter heads are typically thicker in Dia in the head and all the casting weight is compacted in the short head for quick loading. Unless you are casting tight in creeks, close-in mangrove cover or areas where you get on top of fish before you see them (and still not spooking them), like Mosquito Lagoon or LA, then that line serves well. Personally for me here on the Gulf Coast of Florida, you can't always get close to the fish. So I rely on a more general purpose saltwater or flats taper floating line that I can use all around. So heads from 30-36ft work good for that, not necessarily trying to lift the whole head off the water, but with 1 or 2 false cast, to pick up, align the shot, load the rod and accurately shoot it back out there. Many people know that I can just pick up and shoot whatever, but that's not always an ideal thing to do.

The longer heads are usually wind tamer lines for bonefish, throwing small nothing flies while wading skinny water for bones on wide open, wind swept flats. Then those bonefish lines with long 40ft heads come into play and become very useful, requiring you to aeralize the entire head to get the rod to load properly, since, like you said, the heads are long and thing and all the shooting weight is spread out acrossed the entire head lenght. (if my wife seen that long, run-on sentence, she'd hit me! Ha!). However they are no fun when trying to throw a heavy or normal size (bigger and bushier than bonefish flies) inshore flies around or closer in. It's just made for that and the line will collapses and the rod will hardly load right. Also loading those lines, especially if you have a follower that brings the fly in closer, can take take more false casting to get that long head back out of the tip top guide (last eye of the rod) so the rod can load.

Getting back to the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper. Just looks like a good all around flats and general purpose saltwater head length. Not sure if I will like the bumpy finish tho (I prefer smooth textured lines).

Ted Haas


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## flyz (Jan 2, 2017)

MSG said:


> If you like the airflow - then you'll like the BTT. The airflow ridge with clear tip is my other line - they are both great. I do not have any coil issues with either line. How big of a reel do you have airflow on - meaning the reels diameter. When I switched out to larger diameter eels I saw all of my coiling issues go away.
> I have the regular BTT on my 9 wt, and the BTT with lost tip slow sink on my 11 wt, snd the airflow 11 wt also. All 3 lines are awesome and easy to cast. Like groves said, I can pick up 40 feet and shoot to about 70 without a false cast as well with the regular BTT on my 9 wt. I have all of these lines on NRX pro1's. Every time I try other lines I am not impressed - they all are tough to cast to me by comparison. I am interested in trying the tropical punch, though.


I have the Airflo on a Nautilus XL Max right now which is a touch smaller than the NVG 7/8 I had it on before. I'm using the Hatch SW line on my 6wt and I like it for now. Maybe my 8wt doesn't get enough use any more which is why it coils, I don't know. Next time I dabble in different lines though, I'm going to give the BTT a go.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

flyz said:


> I have the Airflo on a Nautilus XL Max right now which is a touch smaller than the NVG 7/8 I had it on before. I'm using the Hatch SW line on my 6wt and I like it for now. Maybe my 8wt doesn't get enough use any more which is why it coils, I don't know. Next time I dabble in different lines though, I'm going to give the BTT a go.


I have mine on a 4" diameter reel as well - no coiling issues till I get pretty far into the line - but my line is old already, so it's pretty well stretched out.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

@Backwater - the Cortland I had was the the early version of the Crystal. Coiled horribly. Glad to hear they corrected that. I also had their intermediate head tarpon line - ran into coils on that, but not as bad as the Crystal. The tarpon line was way too slick for my liking though - had many missed fish since it was like gripping a wet fish when trying to get a good set.

The texture on the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper is almost not noticeable. If you didn't know it was there, the average person would not see it. Definitely not like Sharkskin when it first came out - man, I couldn't stand that line! All of that noise through the guides was downright annoying. Wulff doesn't make any noise.

Before Wulff I used Airflo - liked those lines a lot as well. But Wulff has more durability and has lasted longer for me. Teeny makes some great lines as well, but if I had to choose only one, it's Wulff.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

coconutgroves said:


> @Backwater - the Cortland I had was the the early version of the Crystal. Coiled horribly. Glad to hear they corrected that. I also had their intermediate head tarpon line - ran into coils on that, but not as bad as the Crystal. The tarpon line was way too slick for my liking though - had many missed fish since it was like gripping a wet fish when trying to get a good set.
> 
> The texture on the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper is almost not noticeable. If you didn't know it was there, the average person would not see it. Definitely not like Sharkskin when it first came out - man, I couldn't stand that line! All of that noise through the guides was downright annoying. Wulff doesn't make any noise.
> 
> Before Wulff I used Airflo - liked those lines a lot as well. But Wulff has more durability and has lasted longer for me. Teeny makes some great lines as well, but if I had to choose only one, it's Wulff.


What about throwing bigger or weighted flies?


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

ag


coconutgroves said:


> @Backwater - the Cortland I had was the the early version of the Crystal. Coiled horribly. Glad to hear they corrected that. I also had their intermediate head tarpon line - ran into coils on that, but not as bad as the Crystal. The tarpon line was way too slick for my liking though - had many missed fish since it was like gripping a wet fish when trying to get a good set.
> 
> The texture on the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper is almost not noticeable. If you didn't know it was there, the average person would not see it. Definitely not like Sharkskin when it first came out - man, I couldn't stand that line! All of that noise through the guides was downright annoying. Wulff doesn't make any noise.
> 
> Before Wulff I used Airflo - liked those lines a lot as well. But Wulff has more durability and has lasted longer for me. Teeny makes some great lines as well, but if I had to choose only one, it's Wulff.


agree with above - if only one - the wullf hands down - the airflow after that


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Backwater said:


> What about throwing bigger or weighted flies?


No problem there either - I throw big bass bugs on them on 6 wt to 8 wts. On 12 wt, I've thrown up to weighted 5/0 flies without issue. But that 12 wt line is heavy and can turn over pretty big bugs without much an issue anyway.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Read through this a few times and never found a grain weight. Does anyone know?


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

I shot an email to cortland and the response was just what backwater said. Lq in sky blue and clear is true to standard and the lq guide is a half line heavy. The chart I have shows 8 at 210 and 9 at 240 for a difference of 30. Half of that is 15 so 210+15 i guess would make the lq guide 8 clock in at 225.


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## Devin1128 (Aug 8, 2015)

I just left Rio website and found that the winter redfish is 280 as to the summer redfish is 240 . I was unaware of that . There was no grain weight for the bonefish quick shooter but the taper is close to the same a little shorter head . I knew it felt heavy and would over load the rod at times making me slow down my casting stroke . I like the texture of the rio lines I'm going to go to the summer redfish and that should be better. Thank you all information and help .


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## Devin1128 (Aug 8, 2015)

I am going to try the BTT too it looks like it's pretty close to the same weight as as the summer red redfish at 243


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