# Leader Length



## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Long enough not to scare the fish and short enough to control the fly.


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

9-11 feet


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## MikeCockman (8 mo ago)

I use the 9’ tapered saltwater leaders.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

karstopo said:


> Long enough not to scare the fish and short enough to control the fly.


That’s actually the perfect answer. In addition to the “short enough to control the fly”, you need to use material stout enough to turn the fly over .


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

The Fin said:


> That’s actually the perfect answer. In addition to the “short enough to control the fly”, you need to use material stout enough to turn the fly over .


And a crisp stop without dropping the rod tip on the final cast.

Yesterday, I was doing fine with my leader setup until I switched to a small fly. First cast it hit a wall of air. Had to tighten my loop. That fixed things.

Definitely agree on the right material and taper.


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## Fliesbynight (Mar 23, 2020)

@KyleOneil66,

Karstopo actually has a good answer as that is exactly what you are looking for. You'll have to experiment to see how spooky the fish in your area are..

I fish the northeast and tie my leaders in several different sizes and they all use the 50-25-25 rule. I find those proportions suit my casting style best but, again,, you may have to play around. There are a lot of leader formulas out there. I you search this forum, you'll find plenty of info.

My standard is 9', typically the length of my rods. I throw an intermediate sink line for most of my fishing so the 9' leader works well. It also works well for most topwater applications. 

If the fish are skittish or the water is usually clear, I up it to 12'. My home waters are often murky and sight fishing is not the rule here, so the longer leader is not typical.

If I need to get deep, say over 6'-8' I switch to a fast sink and cut the leader down to 5'. That helps get the fly down into the strike zone and keep it there. That's only for fluke (summer flounder) or dredging the edge of a channel.

Tie your own leaders if you don't already. It saves money and you can make exactly what you need. I made a board with pegs set to the lengths I need. I use a Figure-8 Follow Through for the loop in the butt section and blood knots for everything else.

A lot of guys use a Double Surgeons or something else for the butt loop. I find the surgeons knot makes the loop come off at an angle to the leader and everything else is complicated or compromises the breaking strength of the leader. The rescue guys at work trust their lives to the Figure-8 Follow Through so I trust my fish to it as well.

My sections are typically 40# mono for the butt, 30# mono for the middle and 15# fluorocarbon for the tippet. I don't use a bite tippet often here, so you may have to play around a bit. If I tie on a bite tippet, it's because I am targeting bigger bluefish and use a short wire so they don't chomp through it. Fun fish, blues, just watch you fingers.

Hope this helped a little and welcome to the obession.


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## Fliesbynight (Mar 23, 2020)

BTW and I should have mentioned, if you haven't already found it, Grog's Animated Knots ( Home ) is a great resource for tying knots of all kinds. There are step by step animations you can actually follow and they cover almost every conceivable situation. You can play the animation frame by frame and go back as well.

The website is great but I lean on the app even more. It is definitely available free for androids (Google Play Store) and I think for apples as well.

Boating, fishing, camping, decorative, even neckties, you name it and it is organized very well. For me, this is a Must-Have.

You'll be a pro in no time and won't have to follow the adage "If you can't tie knots, tie lots."


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

@Fliesbynight gave some good info.

9' is the baseline.

If fish get spooky, I'll go 12'. Especially for bones and permit. Sometimes 14' for permit.


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## Fliesbynight (Mar 23, 2020)

coconutgroves said:


> @Fliesbynight gave some good info.
> 
> 9' is the baseline.
> 
> If fish get spooky, I'll go 12'. Especially for bones and permit. Sometimes 14' for permit.


Thanks for the shout out. Do you alter your proportions for the 14' leaders, like adding an extra section? I have enough trouble straightening a 12' leader, since it is definitely not normal for me. 14' must be a limp noodle. I guess a weighted permit fly helps.


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## Takin’Drag (Jan 3, 2021)

I have built my leaders starting with 2-3ft of 40# mono and 2-3ft of 30# mono and a section of 15# or 20# fluoro. They would end up between 8-9ft. I also use 9ft 20# tapered leaders will tie the fly directly to the end to begin with but after a fly change or to I will add a foot of 15# or 20# fuorocarbon. IMO the tapered leader cast a little better, I carry 3 rods in the boat with me 7wt, 8wt and 9wt the leaders will very between 7ft to 10ft I keep the shorter hand made leader on the heavier rod. The shorter leader turns big flies over better. This works for me in south Louisiana.

I have also started carrying an extra fly line for each of my rods, this past Jan. I had a fish run around a pilling and trash the about 20ft of my fly line before i was able to get over to the pilling and get my line free. It looked like someone had run a knife down my fly line. Just something to think about if your just getting into fly fishing and only have one setup.


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## JT2 (5 mo ago)

4’ 2’ 1’ 2’ is still the best leader recipe. If you’re relatively new to fly fishing don’t go longer than 9’ cuz you’ll get frustrated. Practice, practice, practice…


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## WC53 (Dec 2, 2015)

Are you throwing in La mud, if so don’t get fancy. 6’ (of 40/50, foot of 25, two feet tippet


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

WC53 said:


> Are you throwing in La mud, if so don’t get fancy. 6’ (of 40/50, foot of 25, two feet tippet


Finally somebody who actually read the OP's question. There is zero reason in LA to throw long leaders. Just more productive to use short stout leaders. Sure there are times when the water is really clear and the fish get skittish. But that is not the norm in LA.


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## fatman (Nov 23, 2012)

WC53 said:


> Are you throwing in La mud, if so don’t get fancy. 6’ (of 40/50, foot of 25, two feet tippet





ifsteve said:


> Finally somebody who actually read the OP's question. There is zero reason in LA to throw long leaders. Just more productive to use short stout leaders. Sure there are times when the water is really clear and the fish get skittish. But that is not the norm in LA.


I also like the 60% rule for the butt section, seems to help in the wind that always follows me around...


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## mariscos (Jun 19, 2015)

For your fishery just take a 9' piece of 40 lb mono and tie it on if all you want to do is have fun.


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## mariscos (Jun 19, 2015)

Use the perfection loop not a nail knot.


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## ikankecil (Jan 14, 2022)

Way back, long ago, when I got started a guide told me to "just put 4' of 40# for the butt section and 4' of 20# for tippet". While I got fancier in the ensuing years, that recipe was never the reason for missing a fish.


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## KyleOneil66 (Nov 5, 2020)

ifsteve said:


> Finally somebody who actually read the OP's question. There is zero reason in LA to throw long leaders. Just more productive to use short stout leaders. Sure there are times when the water is really clear and the fish get skittish. But that is not the norm in LA.


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## KyleOneil66 (Nov 5, 2020)

Thank y’all for all the info!!


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

fatman said:


> I also like the 60% rule for the butt section, seems to help in the *wind that always follows me around.*..



Ain't that the truth.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

mariscos said:


> Use the perfection loop not a nail knot.


Why do you prefer the loop over a nail knot? I know that it’s easier to switch out, but it’s very bulky IMO.


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

Kyle, what weight rod/line are you throwing? What time of year? What flies are you throwing at them?

I let that govern my leader formula. Like WC53 said, you will never need a leader longer than 9 ft in Louisiana, and most often it would hep to have one on the shorter end. No matter what size leader I'm using, I pretty much always follow the 60%-20%-20% rule.

Summertime slot fishing means 7-8 wt rod with a 40 lb mono - 30 lb mono - 20 lb fluoro leader

During the fall/winter I'm often fishing in windier conditions (especially if @fatman is around) and throwing large heavy flies. My go to leader for then is 4 ft of 50 lb mono, 2 ft of 30 or 40 lb mono, and 2 ft of 30 lb fluorocarbon. 

A shorter and/or heavier/stiffer leader will make it much easier to cast heavy flies in windy conditions. Louisiana redfish are more spooky from skiffs than they are leaders and fly lines.


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## mariscos (Jun 19, 2015)

ikankecil said:


> Way back, long ago, when I got started a guide told me to "just put 4' of 40# for the butt section and 4' of 20# for tippet". While I got fancier in the ensuing years, that recipe was never the reason for missing a fish.


This is exactly what happened to me. When I started I wanted legit IGFA leaders, everything technically correct. Then I broke of a big tarpon in a creek and my mentor said, well, if you had tied one big piece of 40#, we'd be fighting a fish right now.

The 40# turns over really well. Never had an issue. That same mentor told me "He who has the most fun wins". For me, one piece of 40 is max fun


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## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

KyleOneil66 said:


> Im fairly new into the fly fishing game. Mostly sight fishing redfish in SE Louisiana. What size and length leader should I be using?



Keep in mind Greg Moon isn't talking about slot fish in this video


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## mariscos (Jun 19, 2015)

The Fin said:


> Why do you prefer the loop over a nail knot? I know that it’s easier to switch out, but it’s very bulky IMO.


I used the nail knot for years. I don't like that if the butt section gets short you have to tie a new one and keep shortening your fly line. I also like being able to switch leaders if I need to, which is all but indispensable in some tournaments.

Because I use one piece of 40# for most stuff, and 50# down to 10-16# for bones, and variations in between, I've never had a problem with the loop turning over. I took a class with Chico and Flip once, and Chico showed me how the transfer of energy is superior with the nail knot. I don't disagree, but the difference is inconsequential in practice.

Like all of fishing there are "a million ways to do the same thing", as my mentor says. This is just my approach.


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## AlbieFly (5 mo ago)

+1 for perfection loops. You can make them smaller than you think.
Also, 20lb is the max weak link I usually use. If I get wrapped or snagged deep I like having a breakable weak link.


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

AlbieFly said:


> +1 for perfection loops. You can make them smaller than you think.
> Also, 20lb is the max weak link I usually use. If I get wrapped or snagged deep I like having a breakable weak link.


I use a small screwdriver as a "mold" or guide....I make em small


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## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

Here is another suggestion, it’s simple to remember when constructing leaders.
4’ of 40lb
3’ of 30lb
2’ of 25lb
2’ of 15 or 12lb for redfish
this is an 11‘ stealth leader. 

For Snook and mangroves I skip the 15 or 12 and put a 30lb bite tippet. 

If you need 9’ leader, than replace the 25lb section with 2’ of 15 or 12 lb tippet and make a 9’ leader.

Just made 4 leaders.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

I don’t think any of my leaders I tie are exactly the same. Most all of them in the 7-10 weight range have 5 or 6 feet of 40# or 50# leader butt. Maybe there’s a six weight line or two with 30# butt. I’ve done simple butt/tippet, no mid section, leaders, or they might have 3 or 4 mid sections and some mid sections are of the same material and diameter, with on the water repairs or to lengthen a little.

Maybe the longest I’ve made was 15’ or so and that was because my eyeball measurements were a little generous. I like to use longer fluorocarbon leaders in the surf as it lets me fish a little deeper with floating fly line than otherwise with shorter leaders and generally more precise control isn’t such a big deal in a surf situation. I don’t generally bring along intermediate line and don’t fish sink tips if I can help it. If the fish are more than 4 or 5 feet deep, I‘ll just use the baitcasting rig. Sometimes, the fish can be two feet deep and I chunk lures with the baitcasting gear, I just do not like fishing sinking fly lines.

Maybe 6’-7’ was the shortest leader I’ve tied or used and that was for largemouth bass and fat, wind resistant deer hair poppers.

I’d say most my inshore saltwater sight fishing leaders are 10-12’. Controllable with the flies I use at the distances I fish in the winds I typically fish in and long enough to not spook most fish. I carry spools of leader material with me and make repairs or adjustments as needed on the water.

Small, formed by a screwdriver or something like that, perfection loop to a welded loop or another perfection loop in the fly line. Never has one failed on a fish and it’s never been the weakest link in the set up. I’d probably give up fly fishing first before I’d tie a nail knot.

Blood knots down the leader to join sections. As long as the two pieces being joined aren’t too disimilar in diameter, bloodknots work great. Usually, 5 or 6 turn blood knots and spit lubrication. And some bit of UV cure to smooth over the knot if grass is an issue. I like a loop knot to join fly to tippet.

I’ll cast the set up with whatever fly and leader I have on and get a feel for it hopefully before I actually see a fish. Pick some targets along a reef or shoreline and see how it performs. If it’s too long or something is off, I‘ll make an adjustment, but that almost never happens.

Anyway, it’s always good to warm up and make some targeted casts before the first fish is spotted. Some days, the stroke is a little off and or you might be extra strong or something or hungover, wired on coffee, could be anything. Get some confidence in casting the whole set up as rigged and before you spot that first great fish up shallow. Worst thing is to go in cold turkey and try to hit your spot on a sighted fish when you haven’t made a cast yet that day. Then you likely miss a little and miss the opportunity then might get pissed about it and that can spiral downward so you can get in a rut the whole day.

Don’t say, “I won’t make a cast until a fish is sighted” “or I only sight fish” you can make and should make some casts at times at non fish targets, call it practice on the water or whatever and anyway, it keeps you sharp and limber and your aim true.


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## WC53 (Dec 2, 2015)

In the stained marsh and grass I’ll throw a 7 footer. Chameleon butt if will turn over. Not rocket Science in low visibility environments. Otherwise 40/50 SA and I like big butts, I cannot lie. Nuttin worse than a big fly soaked with marsh goo


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

karstopo said:


> I don’t think any of my leaders I tie are exactly the same. Most all of them in the 7-10 weight range have 5 or 6 feet of 40# or 50# leader butt. Maybe there’s a six weight line or two with 30# butt. I’ve done simple butt/tippet, no mid section, leaders, or they might have 3 or 4 mid sections and some mid sections are of the same material and diameter, with on the water repairs or to lengthen a little.
> 
> Maybe the longest I’ve made was 15’ or so and that was because my eyeball measurements were a little generous. I like to use longer fluorocarbon leaders in the surf as it lets me fish a little deeper with floating fly line than otherwise with shorter leaders and generally more precise control isn’t such a big deal in a surf situation. I don’t generally bring along intermediate line and don’t fish sink tips if I can help it. If the fish are more than 4 or 5 feet deep, I‘ll just use the baitcasting rig. Sometimes, the fish can be two feet deep and I chunk lures with the baitcasting gear, I just do not like fishing sinking fly lines.
> 
> ...


Excellent summary. Use the shortest leader possible..rare, but clear sink tip floating lines have a place. Clear water or unweighted flies.


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## richarde206 (Sep 9, 2021)

Loogie said:


> Here is another suggestion, it’s simple to remember when constructing leaders.
> 4’ of 40lb
> 3’ of 30lb
> 2’ of 25lb
> ...


Easy peasy to remember! Thanks!

Curious, which material do you like to use? For me it part of the consideration is if creating a power leader (to turn over heavier and bigger flies and/or delivering them at distance) or if I am creating a stealthy leader that needs to turn over quietly and efficiently.


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## beabra (5 mo ago)

I normally use a tapered 25 lb. 10ft. leader in the LA marshes. Seems to be a good all around starting point. The line can handle the larger flies you would normally throw and can handle the larger reds you normally catch. Have to adjust accordingly but seems to be a good starting point.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

KyleOneil66 said:


> Im fairly new into the fly fishing game. Mostly sight fishing redfish in SE Louisiana. What size and length leader should I be using?


Kyle, in the marsh I generally fish a 9 foot leader. Because my favorite material for redfish flies is lead, I use a stout 60# butt section then drop to 40, 20 and my 15# class. This turns big heavy flies over easily, even in the wind. If I’m targeting big fish around oysters I’ll add a short shock of 30 or 40 to protect against the shell.


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Finally somebody who actually read the OP's question. There is zero reason in LA to throw long leaders. Just more productive to use short stout leaders. Sure there are times when the water is really clear and the fish get skittish. But that is not the norm in LA.


I throw a 14’ for sheephead


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

9’ 40-30-15lb fluorocarbon tippit for oysters


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Fliesbynight said:


> Thanks for the shout out. Do you alter your proportions for the 14' leaders, like adding an extra section? I have enough trouble straightening a 12' leader, since it is definitely not normal for me. 14' must be a limp noodle. I guess a weighted permit fly helps.


A weighted fly makes it more difficult, you are casting the fly line, the fly is just along for the ride.


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## RyMully (Apr 7, 2021)

karstopo said:


> Long enough not to scare the fish and short enough to control the fly.


Agree 100%


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## Fliesbynight (Mar 23, 2020)

Capt.Ron said:


> 9’ 40-30-15lb fluorocarbon tippit for oysters



What pattern do you use for oysters? Must be a verrrry sloooooooow retrieve.


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

Fliesbynight said:


> What pattern do you use for oysters? Must be a verrrry sloooooooow retrieve.


Clouser catch’s them all


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

The size of the butt section is determined by the weight of the fly rod and line, different diameter butt sections on my 6wt, 8wt and 11wt. One size does not fit all.


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