# Will the Florida Fishery Collapse?



## Jared D (Mar 17, 2018)

I would like to ask some questions of the site's audience- Right now I am trying to guage if others are seeing what I am seeing- later I intend to try to be a part of some sort of solution.

Been fishing in Florida since July 3rd, 1990... a time when the state was recovering from the "Blackened Redfish" overfishing of the 80s. I have seen the recovery of Redfish since I moved here only to see it begin to wane again here in NE Florida (in fairness- the fish are here- but just harassed non-stop to the point of over stressed fish in an over fished fishery).
I also have watched the Red Snapper fishery go from shambles in the 90s to suddenly large quantities of smallish snapper following Hurricane Floyd, to large and health populations in the early 2000s- to the complete shut down with the snapper ban (when I first REALLY lost confidence in the US GOV) of which now where they are dramatically over populated.

When I moved to FL, there were 12.9M people according to US Population surveys. Now there are 23M people - all jockeying for the same fish, polluting the waters, consuming the fresh water.

What I am about to ask will make me seem like a big GOV person- I am not at all- but I am curious if as fishermen- the fishing in Florida is about to collapse and are we willing to do something about it. 

Do you see the fishery in your location as beginning to fall apart?
Where do you fish/ Live (general area... i.e. I am in NE FL)
How long have you fished your waters?
What do you primarily fish for?
What is your general fishing conditions now compared to what they were earlier?
What is the biggest issue to your local fishery (i.e. commercial fishing, habitat loss, recreational overfishing, etc)
What do you do to protect the fishery (example- I now do almost exclusive catch and release and I also donate large amounts (to my budget at least) to Captains for Clean water and other charities to help the FL fisheries)?
Are you opposed to a complete moratorium on your fishery and or locations within your fishery or should we enjoy now while the getting is good?
Do you write your local politicians and if so, do you feel anything good comes out of it?
What do you think would most save your fishery?

If you are not a FL resident- please share how your local waters are being impacted.
Example- I have fished in Maine since I was a boy in the early 80s. I remember catching bass very easily. We still catch them and they are still there- but the lake I grew up on now has professional bass tournaments each weekend in the summer and the bass's behavior is noticeably different.


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## NealXB2003 (Jun 8, 2020)

Im not in Florida, but see the same thing on the Tennessee river. Bass tournaments out the wazoo are wrecking the fishery and local businesses cheer it on. They may not fillet the fish, but the delayed mortality approaches 90% in the hotter months. On the biggest of the impoundments near me, there are multiple tournaments at every ramp, every weekend, from large professional events to club tournaments to fruit jars. I'll get hammered for saying this, but the high school and college tournaments are the worst. The world series for each are hosted on these waters. Unlike pro events, there is no qualifying regionals. So it's not unusual for 300-500 boats to come in for those junior events, they fish for 3-5 days, and because every parent wants a pic of their kid on stage they host the weigh ins an hour away from the lake. Once there, the kids stand in line with the fish in a bag for 2 hours for their turn at the scales. 

Im not anti- tournament. My group has went to a paper tournament. Measure and photo, then release. Yes, it requires a change in format. Draw partners, e.t.c, to eliminate collusion so there's always somebody in the boat to cross check the numbers. But that's the change I would make. Don't have to shut the fishing down completely, but fish should be released immediately where they are caught. Not hauled around in a livewell for 10 hrs, then released at a boat ramp 40 miles from where they were caught.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Don’t think you can stop it. There are just too many people and development. Local governments build roads deep in to wooded areas with some bs reason, then we witness developers moving in. Vote leaders out and the replacements start again. Being led by developers.
I’m for banning all tournaments that target native species.


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## Jared D (Mar 17, 2018)

NealXB2003 said:


> Im not in Florida, but see the same thing on the Tennessee river. Bass tournaments out the wazoo are wrecking the fishery and local businesses cheer it on.


On the Tournament’s in Maine where my family lives…. The weigh in on this lake is always located at the ramp on one side of the lake. My uncle lives in the first cove the fish come to after being turned loose after weigh in.

His summer bass fishing is epic.
My mom’s cottage on the exact opposite side of the lake (10 miles plus distance from weigh in) has a much less robust summer fishery now.


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## southerncannuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Been fishing here since 1968 and I’ve seen a few up years many down years. The population has grown from 5 million to 22 million in that time.
We are our worst enemies when it comes to electing leaders.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I've been fishing in Florida since 1975 but my adult fishing started in the early 90s and Tampa Bay in 1995, which is the year the net ban went into effect. Tampa Bay fishing got noticably better the years after the ban. We were seeing much larger trout and sub 20 inch redfish in a year or two. This also corresponded with the seagrass growing back in Tampa Bay and some poll and troll zones.

The P&T zones are/were controversial but in my area they help when they are followed. This is also around the same time the redfish tourneys went into high gear and their way of finding fish was to buzz a shoreline and bump the fish and circle around come catch a couple. Tampa Bay is a big place but there's a lot of people and the fish will not tolerate bring run over constantly on shallow water. 

I don't see as many big snook and the 2010 freeze and red tide events had a big impact on that IMO. I'm sure they are in the passes and canals but not on the flats proper. In the areas I fish trout fishing hasn't recovered from the 2018 red tide and they are clearly smaller. Prior to that the trout fishing was very good IMO. You could consistently catch 18" to 23" trout if you wanted to target them.

The very first thing I would do is make anything inside of 6 feet poll and troll or idle only. I'd also make the penalty pretty severe for seagrass damage inside of there.

I wouldn't be adverse to reds and snook being catch and release only or severely limiting the take. Snook is pretty limited already but they get pounded when they school up. The dolphins follow the boats and hammer them. The reduction would put more pressure on trout because people will shift for fish to take home. So we'd have to manage for that, maybe make the slot minimum bigger, 20"? Probably the same for snapper too. But we don't have the same type of inshore snapper fishery that other places do.

The biggest challenges are water quality, pressure and habitat loss.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

NealXB2003 said:


> Im not in Florida, but see the same thing on the Tennessee river. Bass tournaments out the wazoo are wrecking the fishery and local businesses cheer it on. They may not fillet the fish, but the delayed mortality approaches 90% in the hotter months. On the biggest of the impoundments near me, there are multiple tournaments at every ramp, every weekend, from large professional events to club tournaments to fruit jars. I'll get hammered for saying this, but the high school and college tournaments are the worst. The world series for each are hosted on these waters. Unlike pro events, there is no qualifying regionals. So it's not unusual for 300-500 boats to come in for those junior events, they fish for 3-5 days, and because every parent wants a pic of their kid on stage they host the weigh ins an hour away from the lake. Once there, the kids stand in line with the fish in a bag for 2 hours for their turn at the scales.
> 
> Im not anti- tournament. My group has went to a paper tournament. Measure and photo, then release. Yes, it requires a change in format. Draw partners, e.t.c, to eliminate collusion so there's always somebody in the boat to cross check the numbers. But that's the change I would make. Don't have to shut the fishing down completely, but fish should be released immediately where they are caught. Not hauled around in a livewell for 10 hrs, then released at a boat ramp 40 miles from where they were caught.


I couldn’t agree with you any more about the way these fish (bass) are brutalized during a day of competitive fishing! I fully support the format where the fish is weighed, documented, and released on the spot usually all within 30-60 seconds.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

The commercial pressure around the state is way too high for the schooling and forage fish. For example during the summer time you used to be able to follow a big school of jacks around that would bust bait all day long. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw an all out jack attack. I don't mean a dozen fish busting for 30 seconds, I mean an acre of jacks on a big bait school. The commercial guys get a few bucks for each 2 pound crevalle the catch. The same is happening with ladyfish.

Another example is the commercial bait guys in south Florida. They will move in and net every single pilchard. My buddy that's been guiding in Palm Beach for almost 30 years said it's unbelievable what's happened when there.


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## dbrady784 (Feb 17, 2014)

Jason M said:


> The commercial pressure around the state is way too high for the schooling and forage fish. For example during the summer time you used to be able to follow a big school of jacks around that would bust bait all day long. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw an all out jack attack. I don't mean a dozen fish busting for 30 seconds, I mean an acre of jacks on a big bait school. The commercial guys get a few bucks for each 2 pound crevalle the catch. The same is happening with ladyfish.
> 
> Another example is the commercial bait guys in south Florida. They will move in and net every single pilchard. My buddy that's been guiding in Palm Beach for almost 30 years said it's unbelievable what's happened when there.


state just hands out those commercial licenses with a saltwater fishing license these days. Hell you buy a boat it probably has a permit on it.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

The Fin said:


> I couldn’t agree with you any more about the way these fish (bass) are brutalized during a day of competitive fishing! I fully support the format where the fish is weighed, documented, and released on the spot usually all within 30-60 seconds.


We all know what you support


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> We all know what you support


At least it’s not hatred and treason smack!


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Great topic... wrong forum...









Environment







www.microskiff.com


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

IMO it's already collapsed here on the central east coast....no grass...fish are disappearing


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Along with protection from development, I think we could stand to have some VOLUNTARY , well marked "highways" if you will. I think people would use them, especially people that are new to an area and don't want to run aground. Take this example of @Smackdaddy53 's favorite spot. 4 boats launch at the same point and all arrive at Zephyr Cove, but they took four different ways to get there. One drawback I guess is it could put a lot of traffic in close proximity. The upside is that it would leave a lot of water where fish aren't getting run over. Maybe we could actually have large schools of reds that could gather up.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sublime said:


> Along with protection from development, I think we could stand to have some VOLUNTARY , well marked "highways" if you will. I think people would use them, especially people that are new to an area and don't want to run aground. Take this example of @Smackdaddy53 's favorite spot. 4 boats launch at the same point and all arrive at Zephyr Cove, but they took four different ways to get there. One drawback I guess is it could put a lot of traffic in close proximity.
> 
> View attachment 217422


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## Jared D (Mar 17, 2018)

iMacattack said:


> Great topic... wrong forum...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for pointing this forum page out. My years on Microskiff and somehow I missed this page completely.
I appreciate it iMacattack


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## stoked (7 mo ago)

Absolutely declining. Most have not lived long enough to see the decline over more than 50 years. What I believe is that it is happening at a faster rate now, much faster. For example say a half mile each way from your boat there are 1000 fish available to catch back then and you keep 20, that’s like .02%. Today there 200 fish and you take 5 which works out to 2.5%. There are also many times more people fishing. A lot of the guides (not all) in the big bend are meat guides that also fish many times per week. I can’t cast stones at others because I worked in the industry back when it was .02%.


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## david.riina (9 mo ago)

you could substitue "florida" with every and any state, and the answer will still be "yes the fishery is declining"

name ONE MAJOR FISHERY anywhere in this country doing better now then 20 yrs ago...


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## fly_fyn (5 mo ago)

david.riina said:


> name ONE MAJOR FISHERY anywhere in this country doing better now then 20 yrs ago...


If anyone has an answer to this question do yourself a favor and keep it to yourself


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Lot of questions there (good ones). Over development and poor water quality as a result are the primary problems. I have fished SE and SW Florida (primarily) for 20 years, targeting the usual inshore/nearshore species. I've seen the degradation of our water and the massive loss of sea grasses. And, I've witnessed the number of boaters and "fishermen" increase significantly. I am a lifetime member of the IGFA, of CCA and a member and supporter of Captains for Clean Water, the Bonefish and Tarpon Trust, the Everglades Foundation and Florida National Parks Association. I support these organizations financially and in other ways. I write a lot of letters and email messages and make phone calls to elected officials when appropriate (believe it or not, these can be very effective as legislative aides typically log these contacts and present summaries to the elected officials--the more the better!). I do support the closure of commercial and recreational fishing for harvest for many species. Thankfully, some of the efforts of the past 20 years are starting to show some positive results, both in Florida Bay and on both coasts where the discharges from Lake O have done so much damage. But, it will take a lot more time, a lot more advocacy and a lot more money before conditions and fish populations get anywhere near where they were 20 years ago.


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## NealXB2003 (Jun 8, 2020)

Stop "growing the sport".


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

NealXB2003 said:


> Stop "growing the sport".


When fishing transitioned from a few people doing it to becoming a fad is when it really declined. The internet helped.


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> View attachment 217423


Little girl could seriously use some orthodontia.


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## david.riina (9 mo ago)

NealXB2003 said:


> Stop "growing the sport".





Smackdaddy53 said:


> When fishing transitioned from a few people doing it to becoming a fad is when it really declined. The internet helped.


the huge expansion / growth of the outdoor industry happened when multinational corporations came in and bought up all the smaller locally owned brands. then they marketed the crap out of all these brands / outdoor activities to grow their customer base, WITH ZERO REGARD for the actual outdoor industry and the outdoors. YAY GLOBALISM!


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## ikankecil (12 mo ago)

Not one fish of any species is a fan of Instagram.


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## rigginuts (10 mo ago)

david.riina said:


> you could substitue "florida" with every and any state, and the answer will still be "yes the fishery is declining"
> 
> name ONE MAJOR FISHERY anywhere in this country doing better now then 20 yrs ago...


Red Snapper, Sharks, Dolphin, Jew fish and turtles are beyond capacity. problem is are government does a piss poor job at managing our fishery. Their are always a day late and a dollar short. Plus the run off of pollutants and to many people are beyond any ones control. It's so sad what what has happened to Florida in my life time. Look at Miami and the Keys, It's amazing there is a fish left, it's sicking what it's turned into. I always try to stay positive but I really think we are seeing the beginning of the end.


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## Grumpy11 (4 mo ago)

I've been fishing in Florida for 25 years. I've also fished the Chesapeake since I was a kid in 1964. Fishing in Florida seems a lot better than the Chesapeake. In the Chesapeake they allow commercial netting for practically everything. Hence they now have severe restrictions on striped bass. But stripers sell in every fish market in Maryland. You won't find reds in Florida fish markets.


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## HoseMonkey (Jul 8, 2020)

I blame the YouTubers exposing spots to the online world


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

wetlands mitigation projects converting inland pastures back to wetlands for commercial exchange towards coastal wetlands conversion to housing guarantees a decrease in recruitment

and the lack of enforcement or penalties for violations by an ever increasing number of fisherman guarantees an increase of over harvesting regardless of regulations.

and when I see a fleet of guides rotate through a school of redfish or snook that were called over by cell, text, or vhf the fish just don’t stand a chance


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## tntarpon (Jan 4, 2020)

IMO, you will be living in a socialist country that will ban you from fishing before the fish populations collapse.

Glad I most likely won't live to see it.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

Where I am at in Montana I spend a lot of my time stalking fish in spring creeks, now the grass is matted in these areas and for the most part the tanks are gone.

In Florida I think a lot of the areas are just overrun with guides that just go to all the good spots like its a job because it is. In Florida Bay, I only compete with guides were I fish and EVERY single person I talk to assumes I am a guide just because i am around. They just hit those spots day in and day out.


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## Micro Thinfisher (Jan 27, 2018)

Grumpy11 said:


> I've been fishing in Florida for 25 years. I've also fished the Chesapeake since I was a kid in 1964. Fishing in Florida seems a lot better than the Chesapeake. In the Chesapeake they allow commercial netting for practically everything. Hence they now have severe restrictions on striped bass. But stripers sell in every fish market in Maryland. You won't find reds in Florida fish markets.


Not completely accurate - driving down Bradenton’s Manatee Avenue west of downtown much to my surprise a fish market had a placard sign advertising (yep you guessed it) “Redfish” for sale. I called FWC promptly and was informed they can buy it outside of Florida and offer it for sale.


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## Grumpy11 (4 mo ago)

Reference Thinfisher: seems like they find a way around everything. A Chesapeake waterman told me he would probably be one of the guys out there trying to catch the last fish.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

Micro Thinfisher said:


> Not completely accurate - driving down Bradenton’s Manatee Avenue west of downtown much to my surprise a fish market had a placard sign advertising (yep you guessed it) “Redfish” for sale. I called FWC promptly and was informed they can buy it outside of Florida and offer it for sale.


I think there is a farmed redfish you see at fish markets. It is a hybrid with a carp or something. I freaked out the first time I saw a sign like that, but when I saw the fish I relaxed. It was a frankenfish. It had a spot on its tail, but it was the wrong color and had a hunchback like a carp.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

As stated poor water quality due to a slew of factors, population and its consequences (lawns, fertilizer, development, disappearing mangroves etc. etc.), industry, phosphorous, sugar etc. Overfishing recreational and commercial, a failure to support practices that will assist fisheries. And now warming oceans. I caught my first red snapper off of a dock in the middle of Fort Lauderdale in 1958 and picked up full conch shells in front of the Daytona Plaza hotel when there were only a couple buildings on that beach. If 100 people are using the same bathtub you better make sure to change the water occasionally.


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## PTLuv2Fish (Feb 10, 2021)

NealXB2003 said:


> Im not in Florida, but see the same thing on the Tennessee river. Bass tournaments out the wazoo are wrecking the fishery and local businesses cheer it on. They may not fillet the fish, but the delayed mortality approaches 90% in the hotter months. On the biggest of the impoundments near me, there are multiple tournaments at every ramp, every weekend, from large professional events to club tournaments to fruit jars. I'll get hammered for saying this, but the high school and college tournaments are the worst. The world series for each are hosted on these waters. Unlike pro events, there is no qualifying regionals. So it's not unusual for 300-500 boats to come in for those junior events, they fish for 3-5 days, and because every parent wants a pic of their kid on stage they host the weigh ins an hour away from the lake. Once there, the kids stand in line with the fish in a bag for 2 hours for their turn at the scales.
> 
> Im not anti- tournament. My group has went to a paper tournament. Measure and photo, then release. Yes, it requires a change in format. Draw partners, e.t.c, to eliminate collusion so there's always somebody in the boat to cross check the numbers. But that's the change I would make. Don't have to shut the fishing down completely, but fish should be released immediately where they are caught. Not hauled around in a livewell for 10 hrs, then released at a boat ramp 40 miles from where they were caught.


Start Demonstrating at those events you will get plenty of attention.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Instagram fishing heroes and guides and all these fishing podcasts / shows (really the new accessibility to these) is a disaster for fisheries and the great outdoors everywhere. #doitforthegram. Wish half the people on the water these days would go back to playing video games or updating their MySpace pages from mom’s basement. But don’t worry, these same people are “helping bring awareness” by occasionally picking up some trash (don’t worry, they’ll let you know on Instagram) or hashtagging one of the conservation foundations/organizations. Talk about virtue signaling. 

…and sorry, but if you work for Medallion Homes or any of the other cookie cutter home developers tearing down Florida’s natural wonder, you’re a piece of hot garbage and enemy #1


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> Instagram fishing heroes and guides and all these fishing podcasts / shows (really the new accessibility to these) is a disaster for fisheries and the great outdoors everywhere. #doitforthegram. Wish half the people on the water these days would go back to playing video games or updating their MySpace pages from mom’s basement. But don’t worry, these same people are “helping bring awareness” by occasionally picking up some trash (don’t worry, they’ll let you know on Instagram) or hashtagging one of the conservation foundations/organizations. Talk about virtue signaling.
> 
> …and sorry, but if you work for Medallion Homes or any of the other cookie cutter home developers tearing down Florida’s natural wonder, you’re a piece of hot garbage and enemy #1


I miss the days when fishing wasn’t cool


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## Jared D (Mar 17, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I miss the days when fishing wasn’t cool


When I was in High School, those of us who fished were not thought of as esteemed members of the cool population (early 90s).
Wearing a Guy Harvey T-shirt was not cool- but it did signal your love for the sport to other fishers and allowed you to meet new fishing buddies that way.

I now see everyone wearing Guy Harvey’s. My niece who is 21 and always trying to be fashionable (also trying to be an insta babe to my brothers dismay) wears fish prints all the time.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Jared D said:


> When I was in High School, those of us who fished were not thought of as esteemed members of the cool population (early 90s).
> Wearing a Guy Harvey T-shirt was not cool- but it did signal your love for the sport to other fishers and allowed you to meet new fishing buddies that way.
> 
> I now see everyone wearing Guy Harvey’s. My niece who is 21 and always trying to be fashionable (also trying to be an insta babe to my brothers dismay) wears fish prints all the time.


In the 80’s it was cut off jean shorts, a white t shirt and a trucker hat (befiore they were a fad too)...


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

We did not buy shorts. Cut off jeans.
maybe a shirt
maybe shoes
at 830 during the summer when we were 6 years old mom would say......what are you still doing in my house.... Time To Go


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> In the 80’s it was cut off jean shorts, a white t shirt and a trucker hat (befiore they were a fad too)...


Yeah we were considered ********


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Jason M said:


> Yeah we were considered ******


R E D N E C K S


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Here in Florida when I see ad after ad from FWC pimping fishing licenses on YT, IG, FB, etc… I wonder just how much conservation they are doing these days? Our resources have been turned into “cash cows” over a few decades and it shows on every turn. I have an ex fwc leo client that resigned because his main assignment was writing boating violations. At face value it looks innocent and that he’s just enforcing laws and doing his job. Peel back the layers and you’ll see that it was more about the mighty green dollar! If we don’t do something soon, few of us won’t have to worry about catching fish or getting that deer opening weekend because only the elite will be allowed or afford to hunt and fish. Let’s use the Goliath grouper quota as an example. Quota fee then a $500 tag to keep a damn fish FFS! And why are they still issuing tarpon tags when they are not even edible and fiberglass mounts are readily available and last forever? Our biggest problem with conservation is we don’t agree at all how it should be done! When I hunt, I don’t hunt for a trophy. I hunt for food and sport. Same when I fish, some days I don’t keep any others I do. I can’t eat horns so a yearling will do just fine and put meat in my freezer letting that old buck walk that’s in his prime making more for the future. If folks would diversify their creels when fishing and for sustenance or sport it would remove a little pressure. If you catch a couple reds, move on to a different spot and look for snuke. Catch a couple and move on to mangrove snapper or sheepshead or black drum or even silver trout! Can be “reel” fun to chase those less popular species and they all tug on that line and make great table fair! Same with hunting. If I take two deer during archery & black powder, come general gun I am thinning out the tree rats and rabbits maintaining a diverse protein selection in my freezer all the while making the sports I love more interesting and challenging! Ok, rant/ run on over!🤣


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Do people lip gaff tarpon and drag them in the boat in Florida and post it on social media?


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Do people lip gaff tarpon and drag them in the boat in Florida and post it on social media?
> 
> View attachment 217646


Yep!


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

It’s ok though, they support cca and there’s plenty of fish in the sea.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Yes I'd advise everyone to stay away.


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## ikankecil (12 mo ago)

Why scrub the faces in those photos, they were proud enough to post it for all the world to see.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

ikankecil said:


> Why scrub the faces in those photos, they were proud enough to post it for all the world to see.


Because I ain’t that guy. I’m the guy that calls them out in person but won’t share their faces. Never know who the crazy peta people will go after and I don’t want that on my conscience even if their guide plastered them all over social media. Here’s a different guide, both fish over slot and probably exhausted and full of lactic acid from the fight…








I hate to bash family times but I’d be teaching my daughter that a boga in the mouth and a couple minute at a slow troll makes for a much better release after fighting a bruiser like these two!


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## NCP (5 mo ago)

david.riina said:


> you could substitue "florida" with every and any state, and the answer will still be "yes the fishery is declining"
> 
> name ONE MAJOR FISHERY anywhere in this country doing better now then 20 yrs ago...


Not giving up any specifics, but TN does a pretty good job of stocking trout in many of their rivers. I don’t know about 20, years ago because I didn’t fish for trout that long ago. But, the catch rate seems pretty consistent when we go up there now & has for probably close to the last 10 years. The FL fisheries has definitely declined, & more that likely will continue too. I’m primarily a catch & release salt water fisherman when we get the chance to visit. I’ll keep a pompano or whiting occasionally to make tacos, but that’s really it. Outside of that, I’ll keep some lady fish, blues, or something like that for bait, but whatever I catch on it gets released. The books “Lords of the Fly” & “ The Book of the Tarpon” give really good recollections of how the FL fisheries used to be. From those, you can see how much it’s declined over the years.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

NCP said:


> Not giving up any specifics, but TN does a pretty good job of stocking trout in many of their rivers. I don’t know about 20, years ago because I didn’t fish for trout that long ago. But, the catch rate seems pretty consistent when we go up there now & has for probably close to the last 10 years. The FL fisheries has definitely declined, & more that likely will continue too. I’m primarily a catch & release salt water fisherman when we get the chance to visit. I’ll keep a pompano or whiting occasionally to make taco, but that’s really it. Outside of that, I’ll keep some lady fish, blues, or something like that for bait, but whatever I catch on it gets released. The books “Lords of the Fly” & “ The Book of the Tarpon” give really good recollections of how the FL fisheries used to be. From those, you can see how much it’s declined over the years.


People…too many of them flocking to coastal areas.


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## NCP (5 mo ago)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> People…too many of them flocking to coastal areas.


Agreed. It seems like even the blue crab population & even hermit crabs is declining around the panhandle. Seems like I remember seeing them all over the bays back in the day. Now, it seems like I hardly ever see them.


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## ikankecil (12 mo ago)

I used to fish a fair bit on Jupiter Island from St Lucie Inlet down to about where Bridge Road dead-ends at the beach. On the right tide/wind the snook fishing was fairly productive in that trough right next to shore. On numerous occasions people of recent migratory status were taking 5-gal buckets full of snook back to the parking lot. I called FWC at least three times and nobody ever showed.

During the annual crab migration from the St Lucie River to the ocean there were millions of crabs marching across the landscape and the same demographic that were harvesting the snook were collecting burlap bags full of crabs.

While this thread is specifically about the issues facing Florida, it's not limited to Florida, or the USA, it's a "too many humans, _everywhere_" issue. Each of those humans wants the occasional meal and so resources get stretched.

A few years back I spent two months traveling through Indonesia with a dozen fly rods and enough flies & materials to stock a fly shop, I fished every single day for the length of my 60-day visa. I stretched the trip from 70 miles off the western tip of Java (Ujung Kulon) down to the shallow flats around Maluku. The commercial and subsistence fishermen were keeping fish as small as 2", dozens of Korean and Chinese fishing ships were in almost every port and my single biggest fish from two months and covering thousands of miles and 14 different airports traversing that country was a 10" skipjack tuna caught well offshore of land. There are just too many people that get hungry, everywhere.

In the grand scheme of things, the fisheries in the United States, regardless of freshwater or saltwater, or where, are in much better shape than much of the world. Could they be better? -absolutely, but at least most of us can still manage to go catch a fish in 2022, no matter how much better it may have been 10, 20, or 50 years ago.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

ikankecil said:


> I used to fish a fair bit on Jupiter Island from St Lucie Inlet down to about where Bridge Road dead-ends at the beach. On the right tide/wind the snook fishing was fairly productive in that trough right next to shore. On numerous occasions people of recent migratory status were taking 5-gal buckets full of snook back to the parking lot. I called FWC at least three times and nobody ever showed.
> 
> During the annual crab migration from the St Lucie River to the ocean there were millions of crabs marching across the landscape and the same demographic that were harvesting the snook were collecting burlap bags full of crabs.
> 
> ...


Holy smokes and I would guess most Americans would think of those places as isolated and healthy.


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## Capt.Ron (Mar 5, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> People…too many of them flocking to coastal areas.


There’s benefits to living in a tough area, that aren’t aesthetically pleasing.


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## Flats Hunter (Jul 23, 2021)

God I could talk about this topic for hours.

IMO our fishery isn't going to be saved from collapse unless we can stop the influx of people moving here and the consequent development.

Since that is highly unlikely, perhaps the best thing to do would be to immediately start charging all new transplants a very heavy "impact fee" that could then be spent saving our estuaries, etc. It would also help pay from the additional stress they will put on our infrastructure, school system, etc.

We should also ban and heavily fine the use of Roundup and or any type of weed killer. All of this eventually ends up in the watershed and decimates the sea grass. We should hold everyone accountable from Agriculture to golf courses to the local HOA.

Lastly, for the love of God STOP posting anything fishing related on social media or YouTube. STOP posting spots/tips online, even here. Everything you share gets seen exponentially and is searchable for eternity. By all means share very general tips by stay away from specifics. Lawson Lindsey shares spots in Jupiter on YouTube and within weeks everyone and their brother is there fishing. People need to stop selling out our fishery for "likes". If you want to share info do it privately in DM's or thru this old thing called a phone call.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Capt.Ron said:


> There’s benefits to living in a tough area, that aren’t aesthetically pleasing.


Sometimes. There's a coastal community about 45 minutes from me. Stuff there was always affordable and to be honest, a lot of it was pretty run down. Well, people with money started either buying lots or tearing down fish camps and building huge houses. Then the county comes in and says oh, the average cost per square foot of house now is $275, not $125 and jacks everyone's taxes up. Murica.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Flats Hunter said:


> God I could talk about this topic for hours.
> 
> IMO our fishery isn't going to be saved from collapse unless we can stop the influx of people moving here and the consequent development.
> 
> ...


But there are still folks on here and other social media asking for spots…and when one brave soul speaks up and tells them to get on the water and figure it out they get burned at the stake. There are some recent threads…


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## jasonh879 (Aug 5, 2014)

I’ve lived in Florida my whole life. Half in the panhandle and half in SE Florida. Grew up with a red snapper limit of 12 per person. We could limit at the first wreck. My dad taught me that’s pointless. We took 4 or 5 for a family fish fry on Sunday allowing us to have an excuse to go fishing again. He said if we brought home all the fish we could catch mom wouldn’t let us fish again for a year. So we’d spend the rest of the day fishing for grouper or cobia and occasionally get a tuna. I saw the red snapper decline from overfishing and it has bounced back. Not the same but it’s stronger now than it was. We used to set crab traps and throw half of them back cause they were too small or we had too many. Fished the bays for reds and trout and there was a strong grass habitat for them. Plenty of fish around. Yes there was still red tide but not as severe and not as often. I moved south in 2002. I basically had to learn how to fish all over again. Originally I thought there were no fish down here but I just had to develop new methods. The snook fishery was really good as well as redfish and the reefs weren’t bad either. Now I go home to fish and it’s unrecognizable. Obviously I’m out of touch with with things up there but my old fishing buddies still talk about “the good old days.” Fished all over south Florida the last 20 years and dive as well. The decline is insane and it’s honestly more apparent diving. I used to see schools of snook, more big hogfish than I can count, lots of black and red grouper, cobia, large schools of yellowtail, big muttons, and monster mangrove snapper. Now I see more lion fish than anything. The hogfish have started to come back since they made the regulations more strict but they are all 16” or smaller. Same with muttons. Rarely see grouper anymore. The only cobia are on big sharks. The schools of snook on the shallow reefs are gone. yellowtail schools are smaller in numbers and size. There are more sharks and more Goliath grouper and they’re more aggressive. There’s more trash on the bottom, more fishing line tangled in the reef too. A lot of the shallow reefs are now dead, covered in sand from beach restoration. My tried and true spots for snook and redfish are fished out. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this happened when the instafamous fishermen started making fishing a trend. But the thing is, we all talk about the individual when it comes to snook and redfish which I believe the effect is from more pressure, more boats, more poachers and poor water quality, but the rest of the fishery is more to blame on commercial guys in my opinion. More people in an area means a larger need for food. I think recreational numbers should be dialed back, but also commercial. But at the end of the day there are still going to be poachers and guys who just throw a fish back without reviving it.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

Let's see 4 million rec fisherman in Florida times number of catch equals? Yes not everyone fishes every day or even salt etc. Etc. But that seems to be alot if taking/killing fish, and that's just the rec side. Add all the other factors fish don't stand a chance unless all sorts of changes occur at all factors clean water, limits, methods etc etc. It isn't of course just Florida. Same in New England and its fisheries. No cod for example, stripers have been on the decline for 20 years. Its a world decline. Us humans can sure make a mess out of things. The question is can we straighten it out?


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## southerncannuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Let’s face it, there’s no chance that Floridian would ever elect leaders that are concerned about the environment. The bulldozing will continue. The big neon welcome sign for new people will stay lit up. Converting septic to sewer near water bodies will not happen fast enough. Homeowners will continue to take pride in lush green lawns. Commercial agriculture will keep on having an outsized influence in Tallahassee.
Take pictures so that you can show your grandkids how it was.


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## NealXB2003 (Jun 8, 2020)

Flats Hunter said:


> Lastly, for the love of God STOP posting anything fishing related on social media or YouTube. STOP posting spots/tips online, even here. Everything you share gets seen exponentially and is searchable for eternity. By all means share very general tips by stay away from specifics. Lawson Lindsey shares spots in Jupiter on YouTube and within weeks everyone and their brother is there fishing. People need to stop selling out our fishery for "likes". If you want to share info do it privately in DM's or thru this old thing called a phone call.


That is one rule I apply to my hunting club. NO social media! Take pictures for your scrap book or family. But no social media. And if shared with non- family members, there better be no location identifiable features.


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## Flats Hunter (Jul 23, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> But there are still folks on here and other social media asking for spots…and when one brave soul speaks up and tells them to get on the water and figure it out they get burned at the stake. There are some recent threads…


Yeah, at sometime or another I'm sure we've all done it. We just need to realize it isn't helping and ask privately if at all. Or ask a general question that might help dial you in without giving away any exact areas.


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## rigginuts (10 mo ago)

Flats Hunter said:


> God I could talk about this topic for hours.
> 
> IMO our fishery isn't going to be saved from collapse unless we can stop the influx of people moving here and the consequent development.
> 
> ...


I love this "all new transplants a very heavy "impact fee". How about, No guides license unless your a residence for at least 5 years and if you post pictures of you outings you get black balled. People like this guy and his wife " Life By the Bow " should be black balled by all fishermen and fisherwomen. They are exploiting Florida for their own benefit and egos. I just don't understand people...One thing for sure, raising money for the fishery is a no win proposition . All government and private organizations are corrupt and will "F" up anything they are involved in. We need "we the people" if we are ever going to see any improvement in our waters and fisheries .


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## Flats Hunter (Jul 23, 2021)

rigginuts said:


> I love this "all new transplants a very heavy "impact fee". How about, No guides license unless your a residence for at least 5 years and if you post pictures of you outings you get black balled. People like this guy and his wife " Life By the Bow " should be black balled by all fishermen and fisherwomen. They are exploiting Florida for they own benefit and egos. I just don't understand people...


I like that idea too. Look how all these out of state people come to the Keys to guide during season, let them pay their dues.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Flats Hunter said:


> I like that idea too. Look how all these out of state people come to the Keys to guide during season, let them pay their dues.


Unfortunately, gypsy guides are a problem everywhere. What’s even worse is when they don’t even pay the proper fees, don’t carry any insurance, no first aid/CPR, and no US Coast Guard endorsement!🤬


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Lol and the keys guides guide in louisianna, and Montana guys guide in keys and people from all over guide in Alaska. I have never heard a top notch guide complain about not having enough bookings, but I have had trouble booking with a guide I'd actually like to fish with because they're so busy.


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Jared D said:


> When I was in High School, those of us who fished were not thought of as esteemed members of the cool population (early 90s).
> Wearing a Guy Harvey T-shirt was not cool- but it did signal your love for the sport to other fishers and allowed you to meet new fishing buddies that way.
> 
> I now see everyone wearing Guy Harvey’s. My niece who is 21 and always trying to be fashionable (also trying to be an insta babe to my brothers dismay) wears fish prints all the time.


This is so true. Far to often I get people coming in in “full fishing garb” and here I am thinking I’m going to strike up a cool conversation about fishing only to find out they don’t fish lol


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## Sirhc30 (7 mo ago)

I'm in Alabama fishing these water for almost 12 years. We complain about commercial fishing but to be honest I blame it on the increased numbers of both kayak and boat owners. I'm not exaggerating when I say I feel like the numbers have quadrupled over the past 12 years. If I had one complaint about commercial fishing it would be flounder not being protected from commercial fishing.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sirhc30 said:


> I'm in Alabama fishing these water for almost 12 years. We complain about commercial fishing but to be honest I blame it on the increased numbers of both kayak and boat owners. I'm not exaggerating when I say I feel like the numbers have quadrupled over the past 12 years. If I had one complaint about commercial fishing it would be flounder not being protected from commercial fishing.


People are a plague everywhere.


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## okieflyfisher (Feb 6, 2021)

Not sure if this is commonplace in other coastal states, but Texas uses supplemental speckled trout, redfish, and flounder stocking to offset the fishing pressure in heavily fished areas. As an environmental scientist by trade I am all for managing the resource in a way that sustains itself, but at some point we will need to use anthropogenic methods to sustain the fish population as our sport continues to grow. We also can’t discourage the sport from growing, as our society is in such bad shape that we need to get as many people outdoors as possible. We just need to do our best to do our own research, find the real reasons for the decline of our specific ecosystems, and spread the news to all those who utilize these resources.


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## okieflyfisher (Feb 6, 2021)

Not a fishery, but the Great Plains I call home is currently facing one for the largest extinction events of the human era. This is due to invasive grasses spreading on accident or for use as improved forage. This ecosystem can be grazed in a way that also benefits wildlife, but we will need to bridge the gap between the farmer and the university extension system. Specifically in Oklahoma and Texas, ranches I have worked on have experienced a compete alteration of the vegetation community to invasive grasses, specifically old world bluestem, without any management changes from the rancher. These have resulted in a local extirpation of most noticeably quail and other grassland birds, armadillo, bobcat, jackrabbit, ringtail cats, etc. Just twenty years ago these species were present in strong numbers, but are now completely gone without any hunting or land management changes. As landowners we have to do better to know how to work with our land. FYI whitetail deer are a horrible indicator of ecosystem health as they can live anywhere.


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