# Heartbreaking!



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Just my thoughts, but he needs to get the fly there on the first shot or two. Each time he rips the line off the water to reposition it makes noise.
That probably isn't helping his chances. The reds where I fish will turn off predator mode well before they finally decide to blow out.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Cool video though!


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Don't take this personal but it appears you guys weren't prepared for the shot. Try doing these things next time.

Angler should have pulled 50' of line off the reel first.
Team should have made 50' practice shots at 10:30 to get a feel for when to cast without so many premature casts.
Angler should keep a minimum of one rod length of fly line out the rod tip that greatly reduces time to get cast out.
If angler must, distance measuring should be done with false cast to the shadow side of the fish. (Even tarpon get lock jaw when you rip a fly from the water for a second cast.)
Captain should stop the boat to make it easier for angler to recast at same distance.
Glass calm conditions are tough. One cast is typically all you'll get. Ya'll will get em next time.

Try floating EP flies on 8# tippet.


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## redjim (Oct 16, 2012)

MariettaMike said:


> Don't take this personal but it appears you guys weren't prepared for the shot. Try doing these things next time.
> 
> Angler should have pulled 50' of line off the reel first.
> Team should have made 50' practice shots at 10:30 to get a feel for when to cast without so many premature casts.
> ...


The truth of the matter.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

MariettaMike said:


> Don't take this personal but it appears you guys weren't prepared for the shot. Try doing these things next time.
> 
> Angler should have pulled 50' of line off the reel first.
> Team should have made 50' practice shots at 10:30 to get a feel for when to cast without so many premature casts.
> ...


Thanks Mike. The truth is we are both new. I'm new to poling skiffs and we are both relatively new to fly fishing. That being said, and I'm not taking it personally at all, but he got 3 casts on the nose of a red that just didn't take it. They wouldn't eat conventional. So 3 good casts on a fish that is swimming parallel to the boat in the opposite direction seems like a good attempt.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Also we are regularly catching 15# reds in heavy grass. How would I effectively fish 8lb tippet? By the way I am asking so I can learn. I appreciate all comments and feedback.


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## TylertheTrout2 (Apr 21, 2016)

E, have that dude keep his rod tip in the water when stripping...just increases your odds of NOT having slack in the line and helps the angler maintain a better "feel" for the fly and for when the fish eats.!! Cool Vid!!


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I'm by no means an expert, but I don't think the weight of the tippet is your problem. I think el9surf and Mike both nailed it with the casts that slapped the water in front of the fish. Both of those were in the direction the fish was headed, and that water was pretty clear.

Add that to the fact that the fish looked like it was just cruising and not actively feeding, and the fish is probably not going to eat. I've had false casts (never touching the water) spook reds in our fishery, and our water isn't nearly that clear.  Lots of guys like to practice throwing 70 feet, but I think for redfish the ability to get a fly out to 40 feet with only a few false casts is much more useful.

Plus, in that clear water your fly placement is probably not as crucial. You can afford to be off the mark a little bit, and the fish still has a decent change of seeing the fly. There's probably no need to run it right across his nose, so the angler can settle for a less than perfect cast rather than picking it back up and recasting.

Like everyone else said -- really cool video, though! I love when people get the whole process on film. Eats are great, but I like the videos that incorporate the missed eats and shut down fish as well. If you are ever creating a short film, that stuff definitely adds some realism and a little humor as well.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

TylertheTrout2 said:


> E, have that dude keep his rod tip in the water when stripping...just increases your odds of NOT having slack in the line and helps the angler maintain a better "feel" for the fly and for when the fish eats.!! Cool Vid!!


HAHA almost every single cast he made I had to tell him to keep his rod tip down. He got better towards the end of the day.


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## Outearly (Oct 20, 2015)

[QUOTE=" The reds where I fish will turn off predator mode well before they finally decide to blow out.[/QUOTE]

All of the above, but this is really the end result. IMO once that fish senses that something might not be quite right, he's likely to stop taking chances by eating. He'll wait to see if things calm down, then hit the road if they don't. 

Very cool video, highlights the many things that have to go right to catch a red on fly and why it's so gratifying to have it all come together.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

If it makes your buddy feel any better, I was out fishing last Friday in the marsh after a cold front. Tide was crazy low and there were reds backing and hustling small white shrimp on a really shallow mud flat. I casted every shrimp and crab pattern I had big and small at these fish and couldn't buy an eat. I'd put it right on their nose, lead em by a little, lead em by a lot and nada. They were actively feeding the whole time I was casting at them, but I couldn't get them to eat any flies.

I've had this issue before during the glass minnow hatch when the marsh is just loaded with small glass minnows. The reds will cruise around herding the glass minnows until they get them into a big group, then they'll charge through them with their mouth open trying to just eat as many as possible in one pass and not singling out a single minnow. Judging by the fish's behavior Friday, I think they were doing the same thing. Shrimp would be jumping and scattering in front of them as they cruised along but they wouldn't eat and of them but then all of a sudden, I assume it was when they got a big enough ball of them herded up, the fish would charge forward hard mouth open throwing a big wake and then settle back down and repeat.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

E-money said:


> Also we are regularly catching 15# reds in heavy grass. How would I effectively fish 8lb tippet? By the way I am asking so I can learn. I appreciate all comments and feedback.


Going smaller is just a rule of thumb after refusal for just about any kind of fly fishing.

Floating flies don't sink down into the grass, smaller tippet is more limp for more natural presentation, harder for the fish to see in the surface film, and foul less with grass/scum.

Use small loop knots instead of clinch knots that tend to get pried apart by larger diameter saltwater hooks.

Hold the rod tip as high as you can when you get hooked up. Stand on the casting platform, or even climb up on the poling platform. Chase the fish on the pole/TM while shaking off as much grass as you can along the way. Let the grass slide up the line so it hangs in the air and the water runs out. Damp grass is lighter, and easier to shake off than water soaked grass. Some say if you swing your line around like a jump rope it gets the grass off better. I prefer straight up, then kinda down and to the side, then straight up again.

Congratulations for doing the hardest part by getting out there and finding some fish, catching some is just icing on the cake.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

rakeel said:


> If it makes your buddy feel any better, I was out fishing last Friday in the marsh after a cold front. Tide was crazy low and there were reds backing and hustling small white shrimp on a really shallow mud flat. I casted every shrimp and crab pattern I had big and small at these fish and couldn't buy an eat. I'd put it right on their nose, lead em by a little, lead em by a lot and nada. They were actively feeding the whole time I was casting at them, but I couldn't get them to eat any flies.
> 
> I've had this issue before during the glass minnow hatch when the marsh is just loaded with small glass minnows. The reds will cruise around herding the glass minnows until they get them into a big group, then they'll charge through them with their mouth open trying to just eat as many as possible in one pass and not singling out a single minnow. Judging by the fish's behavior Friday, I think they were doing the same thing. Shrimp would be jumping and scattering in front of them as they cruised along but they wouldn't eat and of them but then all of a sudden, I assume it was when they got a big enough ball of them herded up, the fish would charge forward hard mouth open throwing a big wake and then settle back down and repeat.


I agree. More difficult to feed in those conditions but it can be done. Usually have to be even more precise with fly action timing, the right fly, and 12 lb flouro bite tippet max


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

I've got more reds with maybe a slightly off cast, but allowing the fly to sit, evaluate and see what the fish does. They don't always swim in a straight line...be patient with it...let the fly sit, even if your cast isn't on the money. As others have said, multiple re-casts are only gunna lead to spooking the fish eventually, especially if you knock him on the dome like it looks like what happened here the final cast. Kinda like they teach us in the military: it doesn't have to be a perfect cast (decision), but a well-executed, timely decision with some tactical patience, is going to bring you success more often than not. That said, a snobby fish is a snobby fish that day - ain't nothing you can do about it.


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

With cruising fish, be it reds or trout I like to drop my fly 6-10 feet in front of them and wait till they get closer before moving it. Also in that real shallow grassy stuff I think a deer hair slider that will suspend will keep weeds off longer as well while sitting and waiting for the distance to close. As mentioned before STOP the dang boat. Any and all un-necessary movement ( false casts included ) will be seen and the fish will become lock jawed even if they don't take off.
That's one of those ask me how I know things.


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## hferrell87 (Jan 28, 2013)

It happens to the best of us! Can't count on fingers and toes how many times I've been denied by bank cruising reds... A lot of good advice above and I'll add that his back cast is getting cut off before the loop rolls out. Sometimes its better to take less casts and not rush it! 

I've seen worse presentations get eats, so its not always the anglers fault!


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

I'm always afraid to plant and stop the boat because I'm scared the fish will feel the pole stick more than the gliding boat.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

E-money said:


> I'm always afraid to plant and stop the boat because I'm scared the fish will feel the pole stick more than the gliding boat.


Same...my heart starts pounding anytime I've got a good glide going and roll up on some fish and the power pole goes down...

As a technique, the power pole remote I have on the slowest setting, and I keep it most of the way down without touching the bottom...when I get ambushed, that usually stops the boat pretty quick as I trade my push pole for my fly rod. Obviously can't do it over anything but a muddy bottom, but that's normally where I fish anyway..


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Fun vid. We've all been there.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

E-money said:


> I'm always afraid to plant and stop the boat because I'm scared the fish will feel the pole stick more than the gliding boat.


If you are seeing fish regularly slow the pace of the boat down to a creep. If the foot or point has sunken into the mud at all the person on the pole can slow the boat by using the resistance to their advantage to stop the boat. If you are cruising along at a good pace and can't stop at the very least stop pushing. 

I think newer folks overlook the importance of putting the push pole in the water silently. It can be done if you are paying attention to it.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

I'm going to go ahead and say your buddy did a pretty decent job. Especially if he usually only throws flies at bream and Bass, he didn't do bad at all, considering his adrenaline was probably going. He wasn't dropping the fly very soft but not all that hard either, and from the looks of it he wasn't terribly inaccurate, the fish just kept refusing and swimming past the fly. IMHO his pickups need more work than the rest, the fly landed with less disturbance than his pickup caused. With that said, imo the fish probably wasn't going to eat anyway, he didn't change his pace, general direction, or anything at all, until he blew out.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

E-money said:


> Also we are regularly catching 15# reds in heavy grass. How would I effectively fish 8lb tippet? By the way I am asking so I can learn. I appreciate all comments and feedback.


I would like to fish with you anytime the 15# reds are in heavy grass. I will trailer my skiff no problem.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

If fly fishing was easy they wouldn't sell bay boats.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> I would like to fish with you anytime the 15# reds are in heavy grass. I will trailer my skiff no problem.


I know, I hate that I missed you while you were in town. Hopefully I can get away next time.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> I'm going to go ahead and say your buddy did a pretty decent job. Especially if he usually only throws flies at bream and Bass, he didn't do bad at all, considering his adrenaline was probably going. He wasn't dropping the fly very soft but not all that hard either, and from the looks of it he wasn't terribly inaccurate, the fish just kept refusing and swimming past the fly. IMHO his pickups need more work than the rest, the fly landed with less disturbance than his pickup caused. With that said, imo the fish probably wasn't going to eat anyway, he didn't change his pace, general direction, or anything at all, until he blew out.


Good point -- it looked like the most startling thing about the extra casts wasn't the presentation so much as ripping it back out of the water to recast.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

E-money said:


> I'm always afraid to plant and stop the boat because I'm scared the fish will feel the pole stick more than the gliding boat.


The risk if you don't is the fish will sense the boat. All previous posts have good tips.

You were in super slicked off water. Fish can be more spooky. Your game has to adapt.

The boat was moving pretty fast towards the fish in relation to the water movement. Should have slowed it down and stopped. You were in grass, not hard packed sand, a stop would make less sound than the entire boat continuing closer towards the fish.

While sound does travel faster in water than air, the bottom can help dampen (or reflect) the sound. Grass and a soft bottom absorbs sound. Sand hard pack can reflect it. You were on grass, I would have stopped the boat, especially if the fish was slowly moving towards it. Practice quietly stopping the boat. I would have put my pole at my 2 off the starboard side where i could push the boat back while keeping the bow in perfect casting angle.

The guy on the bow ripped the fly off the water during his false casts. This is because he is casting towards the fish, in a downward angle towards the water. Cast parallel to the water and let the fly fall. He also ripped the line off on recasts. Great tip - slow pull the fly line off the water, then right when the end of the fly line and leader are about to come off, quickly lift the leader and fly out. This water loads and makes the least amount of noise.

Slicked off water calls for a light presentation. Longer leaders, longer shots. He was hitting the fish on the head. You have to read the fish's body language. Fish eating actively can take a fly on the head. Super calm water and a fish not actively eating calls for a bit of a lead with light presentation.

Definitely get that rod tip down. Way too much slack in the line. It would have been a trout set.

And finally, it's a fish. You could have did all of the above and it might not have eaten. A great guide told me "Take all the ifs, ands and butts out of it. Only then can you blame it on the fish." Sometimes a fish is a fish. But there were a lot of "ifs, ands and butts" going on there.

All new comers go through this, so don't be hard on yourself. Posting this video is great because check out the feedback you got. Some of the above takes a lot of time to learn.

My little bro recently got into fly fishing. He is on the accelerated Masters Degree...  I am tough as shit on him. A few weeks ago we had a monster tailing on the flats, but had 15 mph winds. I got him 50' from the fish - the thing was on its belly, back out of the water, feeding into an incoming tide at the mouth of a creek. He landed the fly 5' short, so I slowly pole him closer and told him I would get him closer and to hold his shot. Told him to recast and guess what he does? Pulls three strips of line off the reel instead of casting. That 5 seconds lost the fish. He didn't listen to me. He wasn't aware of his surroundings. And he already had enough line.

The guide can guide all day long, but if the person on the bow doesn't listen, there is little that can be done. He bought the beers that night and had to hear what he did wrong at least 6 times. 

Wow, that ended up being a Ted post!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

I bet your brother will remember that experience for a while. Sight cast fly casting to reds can be at times the most difficult fly fishing experience on the planet including permit. It can also be one of the easiest sight casting experiences. Several clients have managed to land their first fly casted fish from the bow, while on the other hand, some very good good casters and experienced fly fishers have struggled with sensitive reds.
1) Don't fall in love with a fly. Or if you have to, better have every color in the spectrum and different leaders and fly lines to handle bottom types, depth changes, etc
2) Practice very fast cast resets. Fish change directions while your fly is the air.
3) Even if it is ugly, cast very accurately to 50 ft or so. Some of these guys are very good at getting fish to eat the fly.
There are a lot of other things to improve your chances from high definition eye ware to how you hold your fly line on the bow but I need to get some things done. 

Sight casting is very good in Texas right now thanks to all the rain we have had the last two years. There is more fish food in our bays this year than there are fish to feast on it.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

What kind of grass is that? It looks like a fun place to fly fish.


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## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

REDEMPTION!

I took my buddy back out this weekend and he was able to get his first few reds on the fly.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Sweet finger condom.


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## Outearly (Oct 20, 2015)

Great photos, gorgeous fish. So cool to make it all fit together and land a fish.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Nothing better than film study. Keep at it. Good fishing!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

coconutgroves said:


> Wow, that ended up being a Ted post!


Lol... Hey someone's gotta cover when I'm gone!  Nice job Keith, plus all of the comments and coaching were spot-on great from the brothahood! Almost brought a tear to my eye! lol Also nice hands-on coaching e-$$, bringing that good advise all together for your buddy! Ya gotta love the photos of those redemption fish! 

It's a good feeling when it all comes together! 

Ted


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> The risk if you don't is the fish will sense the boat. All previous posts have good tips.
> 
> You were in super slicked off water. Fish can be more spooky. Your game has to adapt.
> 
> ...


Damn I wish I could go fish with someone like you to get me clued in because I am having a hella tough time learning the fly game.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

commtrd said:


> Damn I wish I could go fish with someone like you to get me clued in because I am having a hella tough time learning the fly game.


What area do you live in?


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