# Sooo....Did Clutch Fly Rods go out of business?



## YnR

Don’t know but seems like they were headed in that direction. They went factory direct last year.


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## Shadowcast

Clutch is still going. They have been going through a little restructuring which has taken a little longer than expected. There was a post on their owners group on FB and Lee addressed what has been going on. Things will be back to running smooth soon...


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## Tx_Whipray

I hope you're right, but 30 days is a long time for the website of a direct to consumer company to be down.


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## wsreid

I just visited the Clutch site this evening. Virtually no rods are showned to be for sale, and no current information is available: I did not try to find out if one could still buy a rod on the site. I am sad about this. I bought a Clutch Core 6wt last year, but fished it for the first time three weeks ago, in Costa Rica. A very modern rod, with a relatively soft tip and progressively stronger mid and lower sections. Not some cookie cutter "fast" rod, it has character, strength, and an enormous effective range, from next to the boat to as far as the guide could demand. Sometimes, a great notion.


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## ifsteve

Haven't ever fished a Clutch but a cousin of mine has a bunch and he thinks they are top notch. But I always say the same thing about new rod/reel companies. You just have to be careful because there is a high likelyhood they won't be around in 5 years. Hopefully not the case here.


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## Caleb.Esparza

I’m always skeptical of new companies that hype the sh*t out of their products with no long standing history to back up their claims. Most rod marketing is just that anyway. I’m not buying a Loomis or Sage for the kind of money that they were charging for an Arc. and I know those rods will work well without question.


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## Smackdaddy53

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I’m always skeptical of new companies that hype the sh*t out of their products with no long standing history to back up their claims. Most rod marketing is just that anyway. I’m not buying a Loomis or Sage for the kind of money that they were charging for an Arc. and I know those rods will work well without question.


If guys knew how cheap components and blanks most companies use they’d laugh at $900 fly rods and $700 conventionals.


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## ifsteve

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If guys knew how cheap components and blanks most companies use they’d laugh at $900 fly rods and $700 conventionals.


For sure. But when I buy a ZZZ (Sage, Loomis, Hardy, etc) i know that if I ever have an issue I will get taken care of.


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## Smackdaddy53

ifsteve said:


> For sure. But when I buy a ZZZ (Sage, Loomis, Hardy, etc) i know that if I ever have an issue I will get taken care of.


For those prices they better!


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## R-Factor

ifsteve said:


> Haven't ever fished a Clutch but a cousin of mine has a bunch and he thinks they are top notch. But I always say the same thing about new rod/reel companies. You just have to be careful because there is a high likelyhood they won't be around in 5 years. Hopefully not the case here.





Caleb.Esparza said:


> I’m always skeptical of new companies that hype the sh*t out of their products with no long standing history to back up their claims. Most rod marketing is just that anyway. I’m not buying a Loomis or Sage for the kind of money that they were charging for an Arc. and I know those rods will work well without question.


I'd tend to agree with this overall. Within some instances, I'm very happy to support a new guy on the block...A new fly shop? I'd be the first guy there. Local, art stuff like this- http://boldcoastburns.com/? Count me in. When it comes to fly rods and reels, however, I want an established maker that's going to be around to repair (or at the very least replace) the item 8 or 10 years from now. Scott, Winston, Hatch, Ross, and Abel have seen a good deal of my business for this very reason.


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## ifsteve

Smackdaddy53 said:


> For those prices they better!


Absolutely. What I don't get is when some new company comes along and start out with rods priced up towards what the long established buys charge. I totally get guys not wanting to spend $900 on a XXX rod. But what I totally don't get is then turning around and spending $750 on a rod from a new company. To me you aren't saving near enough coin to warrant the risk.


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## Caleb.Esparza

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If guys knew how cheap components and blanks most companies use they’d laugh at $900 fly rods and $700 conventionals.


Oh I’m all about the “best rod ever” from a reputable builder, from 5 years ago lol. Much more realistic pricing when they go on clearance, or through various guide programs etc. With that said, the next rod I add to the quiver will probably be a Crosscurrent Pro-1 and I don’t even get a discount on those. They were great rods a decade ago, and they still are today!


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## kbanashek

I've given one particular smaller shop my business over the last 5 years, busted my 10# in August and am still waiting on that piece to ship to. I eventually picked up a Reddington Predator as I was in Belize for December and needed one for down there. As of Friday they still don't know when that piece will be in nor do they have any other 10# in stock. I loved the action of that rod, however, I just can't stand behind a company or continue to give my business to if this is the type of warranty/replacement experience I'm going to receive. It's really unfortunate, but it's just business(albeit recreational fly fishing). On top of that, I waited 3 months for one of their reels to be repaired after a 100#+ tarpon took it for a spin and fried the drag. 

I really liked Clutch's 1 piece rod, believe it was the Arch. Hope they bounce back.


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## R-Factor

Caleb.Esparza said:


> They were great rods a decade ago, and they still are today!


This is an important fact that I think many of us forget when getting caught up in the latest and greatest. I believe Tom Dorsey (founder of Thomas and Thomas) once told me that same line in a matter of words while showing me around the factory. A great casting rod 20 years ago is still a great rod today. I'm grateful for new advancements in technology, but I think there can be some real truth to this.
*My apologies for getting off track on this thread...back to Clutch.


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## crboggs

I've seen a couple of well known guides on IG selling all of their Clutch rods. So something may be up...


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## trekker

ifsteve said:


> For sure. But when I buy a ZZZ (Sage, Loomis, Hardy, etc) i know that if I ever have an issue I will get taken care of.


Same with other less expensive companies. Broke a 9 wt. Predator. Brand new rod arrived in less than a week.


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## ReelFisher

I found the Clutch East Cape Vantage for sale on my local Craigslist last week. I know the guy is willing to take a bit less than advertised for the boat...crazy good deal
https://charleston.craigslist.org/bod/d/ladson-2017-east-cape-vantage-19-skiff/6817696201.html


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## mtoddsolomon

ReelFisher said:


> I found the Clutch East Cape Vantage for sale on my local Craigslist last week. I know the guy is willing to take a bit less than advertised for the boat...crazy good deal
> https://charleston.craigslist.org/bod/d/ladson-2017-east-cape-vantage-19-skiff/6817696201.html


My buddy from work is picking it up today


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## Flyfishin4redfish

If anyone is looking for a Core 7wt or an Arc 7wt. Message me.


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## Flyfishin4redfish

If anyone is looking for a Core 7wt or an Arc 7wt. Message me.


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## Backwater

ifsteve said:


> Absolutely. What I don't get is when some new company comes along and start out with rods priced up towards what the long established buys charge. I totally get guys not wanting to spend $900 on a XXX rod. But what I totally don't get is then turning around and spending $750 on a rod from a new company. To me you aren't saving near enough coin to warrant the risk.





ifsteve said:


> Haven't ever fished a Clutch but a cousin of mine has a bunch and he thinks they are top notch. But I always say the same thing about new rod/reel companies. You just have to be careful because there is a high likelyhood they won't be around in 5 years. Hopefully not the case here.


I know I will get a lot of flack from the following statement, but, I've thrown about the entire line of Clutch rods in an 8wt, back in 2015 I believe in iCast, as well as fished them several times in 9wts, 7wts and 10wts with several guys and a guide.

My impression.... They are all stiff and lack soul. For that, they are way overpriced. The best one I threw was their least expensive model. Also had a conversation with George Anderson and he said they never made it into their 8wt shootout, they were so bad. You guys who love those rods should venture out more. Go cast and fish some other rods before forming your final opinion on these rods. Also, many guides pumped the rods to clients because they all (guides) got spectacular deals on them. Maybe the downfall of their business, because I see a lot of them that go on the market. Possibly because those people end up casting other rods that have more feel and soul to them, so maybe there are not many re-orders because of it.

For me, I would never recommend the rod. Way over priced for what they are. If I was find spending that kind of coin on a rod, there are way better options out there. Go look and you will find them.

These are my honest opinions and I'm not out to trash the company nor the owners. I was introduced to them, met them in person back in 2015 and we chatted for a while. Great bunch of guys (and really big guys too ). But in the end, unless the rod is seriously over-lined, they just lack luster. It's too bad because I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, especially being a rod made in the U.S.. But it is, at least for me.

I honestly don't know much about their warranty, only that I see on-line that people were asking and saw some comments from some people who were concerned about it. But again, I have no experience.

I'm sorry, but that is my honest personal option on their rods and I have nothing to gain by making these comments and I don't work in the fly fishing industry whatsoever. So I'm in no competition with these guys either that would profit in any way by saying anything good or not so good about the rods or the company. I just wanted to share another side of the story to the public, in this particular forum (and not trying to broadcast that out either) which some may not be willing to share here on this thread.

Ted Haas


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## Fishshoot

ReelFisher said:


> I found the Clutch East Cape Vantage for sale on my local Craigslist last week. I know the guy is willing to take a bit less than advertised for the boat...crazy good deal
> https://charleston.craigslist.org/bod/d/ladson-2017-east-cape-vantage-19-skiff/6817696201.html


Somebody got a ripping deal on this skiff! I don't like the powerpole or bench seat but at that price greatdeal! East Cape makes great skiffs in my opinion, I don't understand why used ones sell so cheap


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## mtoddsolomon

Fishshoot said:


> Somebody got a ripping deal on this skiff! I don't like the powerpole or bench seat but at that price greatdeal! East Cape makes great skiffs in my opinion, I don't understand why used ones sell so cheap


this one sold so cheap because it got repoed and the used car lot that bought it had no clue what they had.

Not seen many east capes sell cheap which is why I bought new. This one and the evox for sale right now are the only two “deals” I’ve seen in a while

As far as the rods go, I love how they throw. I was told a very different story of why they were never in the 8wt shootout, by Lee, when fishing with him one day and that excuse seemed more reasonable than what Ted heard so that is what it is. Things aren’t great with clutch right now but I’m going to fish my arc until it breaks again. And I’ll figure out then what I need to do


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## LowHydrogen

Good or bad, hate to see any domestic company go under. 

Kevin in Apalach carried them, not sure if he still does, haven't been in the shop in forever. I wanted to throw the 1 piece a couple years back, but he couldn't get it in stock at the time.

Any word on what happened, or just lack of business/demand?


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## Backwater

mtoddsolomon said:


> As far as the rods go, I love how they throw. I was told a very different story of why they were never in the 8wt shootout, by Lee, when fishing with him one day and that excuse seemed more reasonable than what Ted heard so that is what it is. Things aren’t great with clutch right now but I’m going to fish my arc until it breaks again. And I’ll figure out then what I need to do


Hey, you can share his side of the story too. Likewise, I got George's side of the story when I was fishing with him too. He said he threw their top 2 rods at iCast and then sent several other people there to do the same to make sure it wasn't him. Their feedback was similar. I told him I did the same and felt the same way about the rod. Believe me, I prefer a much faster rod than George prefers, but my overall feelings on the rod was "stiff" over being fast. Fast is one thing but stiff is another. There's a difference. George said many other rods never made it into the shootout(s) either. I can think of a few and from talking to him, he said it had nothing to do with their ability to market it or not. I know there are always 2 sides of the story and I take what George says with a grain of salt. But in this case, I agree with him, but not saying I'm some ultimate authority on the subject, because I'm not. I'm just one opinion.


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## andrewwa

I have thrown a few of their arc line and I personally really liked how the rod felt. It was fast for sure but it had more feedback than something like a method. I think they changed their website to clutchfishingdotcom and they have gone direct to customer, which would obviously piss off their dealers if they didn't give them an adequate heads up. Also, for direct to customer their prices aren't much lower than their original retail prices for some reason. Maybe they are waiting until their dealers sell out their stock?


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## ifsteve

So I checked out the new webiste and looked at their saltwater rods. They are sold out of all but a couple.
https://fly.clutchfishing.com/collections/salt-water-fly-rods

In fact the only line they seem to have much availability is the freshwater specific rods. No idea what is happening but this coupled with a skiff getting repossessed ....well just buyer beware.


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## kbanashek

Also noticed that a certain guide down here in the keys was selling all of his Clutch rods.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtwcGbujAHl/


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## LowHydrogen

kbanashek said:


> Also noticed that a certain guide down here in the keys was selling all of his Clutch rods.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BtwcGbujAHl/


Seems kinda silly, why sell all of something that was super awesome before you got into it with the dude who makes/sells them? Doesn't change the quality or performance of anything.

Pretty sure Jim Bartschi couldn't say anything that would make me be like, screw you, I'm selling all these awesome rods.


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## kbanashek

LowHydrogen said:


> Seems kinda silly, why sell all of something that was super awesome before you got into it with the dude who makes/sells them? Doesn't change the quality or performance of anything.
> 
> Pretty sure Jim Bartschi couldn't say anything that would make me be like, screw you, I'm selling all these awesome rods.


I agree, although I've never had my own fishing TV show..


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## sjrobin

All of you guys that like Clutch better call Jared.


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## Tx_Whipray

LowHydrogen said:


> Seems kinda silly, why sell all of something that was super awesome before you got into it with the dude who makes/sells them? Doesn't change the quality or performance of anything.
> 
> Pretty sure Jim Bartschi couldn't say anything that would make me be like, screw you, I'm selling all these awesome rods.


If it was a tool I used to make my living, I probably wouldn't keep it if the warranty was worthless.


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## ifsteve

LowHydrogen said:


> Seems kinda silly, why sell all of something that was super awesome before you got into it with the dude who makes/sells them? Doesn't change the quality or performance of anything.
> 
> Pretty sure Jim Bartschi couldn't say anything that would make me be like, screw you, I'm selling all these awesome rods.


So lets see. You want to take your clients out for a paid charter. With rods that no longer have a useful guarantee from a company that appears to be floundering at best. And whose boat apparently got repossessed. You would want to distance yourself from that situation in a NY minute.


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## LowHydrogen

ifsteve said:


> So lets see. You want to take your clients out for a paid charter. With rods that no longer have a useful guarantee from a company that appears to be floundering at best. And whose boat apparently got repossessed. You would want to distance yourself from that situation in a NY minute.


I wouldn't, it's a reflection of the company not someone who uses the gear.

Not saying I wouldn't eventually get new rods, obviously I'd have to if the company isn't around. All I was saying was if the rod was awesome last week, it didn't go bad overnight because the company has some shit going on. If Scott or Sage went tits up tomorrow you can bet I won't be selling rods just because they don't have a warranty. Have backups on hand yes, sell them just to sell them, if I like the action and they perform, no. Look at Sears, that situation isn't looking great, I'm not tossing out Craftsman sockets...

I'd be willing to bet if you were taking clients, and a similar situation happened at Abel, you wouldn't be dumping those nice reels you've got.

Not trying to stir the pot, just think my first comment was misunderstood.


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## jmrodandgun

LowHydrogen said:


> Seems kinda silly, why sell all of something that was super awesome before you got into it with the dude who makes/sells them? Doesn't change the quality or performance of anything.
> 
> Pretty sure Jim Bartschi couldn't say anything that would make me be like, screw you, I'm selling all these awesome rods.


A better question is why keep them? He's probably not in the business of rod storage and it's fair to assume whomever his next sponsorship is coming from doesn't want other rods on the boat. 

$400 is still too much


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## LowHydrogen

jmrodandgun said:


> A better question is why keep them? He's probably not in the business of rod storage and it's fair to assume whomever his next sponsorship is coming from doesn't want other rods on the boat.
> 
> $400 is still too much


Most likely scenario


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## Backcountry 16

Fishshoot said:


> Somebody got a ripping deal on this skiff! I don't like the powerpole or bench seat but at that price greatdeal! East Cape makes great skiffs in my opinion, I don't understand why used ones sell so cheap


I love the lodge bench seats thst East Cape puts on their boats. ThatsT why I personally don't finance toys


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## ifsteve

LowHydrogen said:


> I wouldn't, it's a reflection of the company not someone who uses the gear.
> 
> Not saying I wouldn't eventually get new rods, obviously I'd have to if the company isn't around. All I was saying was if the rod was awesome last week, it didn't go bad overnight because the company has some shit going on. If Scott or Sage went tits up tomorrow you can bet I won't be selling rods just because they don't have a warranty. Have backups on hand yes, sell them just to sell them, if I like the action and they perform, no. Look at Sears, that situation isn't looking great, I'm not tossing out Craftsman sockets...
> 
> I'd be willing to bet if you were taking clients, and a similar situation happened at Abel, you wouldn't be dumping those nice reels you've got.
> 
> Not trying to stir the pot, just think my first comment was misunderstood.


1. Apples and oranges. I am not a guide and have no clients to impress or disimpress. So no if Abel was going under I wouldn't sell them off. But its also another apple and oranges. Abel has been around for over 25 years. This company...well a little less than that.
2. But here's the biggie. Highly likely this guide is getting more money for these rods than he paid for them in the first place. And also highly likely he didn't choose these rods for his skiff as they were the best rod out there. He chose them because the are acceptable and he got a good "pro staff" deal. So as already mentioned a guide can dump these and move on to his next "pro staff" deal.

But your bottom line isn't wrong. If you thought they were good rods last week they are still good rods today. And I don't think anybody disputes that.


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## Bluwave

I heard the guy took a 15 year loan at 10.25% for that Clutch East Cape ... 

1. Pay cash for your toys 
2. Don't be an idiot 
3. If you need a loan, don't go higher than 36-48 months
4. Seriously... don't be an idiot


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## ifsteve

Bluwave said:


> I heard the guy took a 15 year loan at 10.25% for that Clutch East Cape ...
> 
> 1. Pay cash for your toys
> 2. Don't be an idiot
> 3. If you need a loan, don't go higher than 36-48 months
> 4. Seriously... don't be an idiot


Another generalized stupid response. Just one example. My last boat loan was at 4%. I make more money than that on my investments so I would have been, to use your term, an idiot, to take money out instead of a loan.

There is zero wrong with taking out a long term loan for a boat if your situation makes that sensible.


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## texasag07

That guide selling those rods also dumped a bunch of tibor’s and nautilus’s reels as well this year before jumping in the newest Abel band wagon so it probably doesn’t have much to do with them going out of business just more like the additional money train stopped like ifsteve said.

I’m sure every rod and reel company is throwing stuff at him.


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## Bluwave

ifsteve said:


> Another generalized stupid response. Just one example. My last boat loan was at 4%. I make more money than that on my investments so I would have been, to use your term, an idiot, to take money out instead of a loan.
> 
> There is zero wrong with taking out a long term loan for a boat if your situation makes that sensible.


I mean, 99% of the time a long term loan on a depreciating asset is a terrible idea. Yes, you're an idiot if you think a 4% loan over 15 years, is generally a good idea.

I'll simplify this for you.

Loan: $55,000
Term: 15 years
APR: 4%
Interest: $18,229.10

After 15 years, you've paid $73,000 for a skiff that might be worth $20,000 on a good day.


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## 321nole

Bluwave said:


> I mean, 99% of the time a long term loan on a depreciating asset is a terrible idea. Yes, you're an idiot if you think a 4% loan over 15 years, is generally a good idea.
> 
> I'll simplify this for you.
> 
> Loan: $55,000
> Term: 15 years
> APR: 4%
> Interest: $18,229.10
> 
> After 15 years, you've paid $73,000 for a skiff that might be worth $20,000 on a good day.


not that I disagree with your example, I think financing large amounts over long periods for a skiff is outrageous....however, to Steve's point, say I have the $55k in cash to buy it outright, but choose to finance and instead invest that cash. in that same time period earning 4% compounded annually (not unreasonable) I would gain $44k on the investment and net $26k after interest on the loan.


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## SomaliPirate

Well this thread got interesting all the sudden.


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## Backcountry 16

SomaliPirate said:


> Well this thread got interesting all the sudden.


You never know which one it'll be.


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## SomaliPirate

Backcountry 16 said:


> You never know which one it'll be.


That's the damn truth!


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## ifsteve

This whole financing thing has been debated on here ad naseum. And the result is always the same. Nobody changes their opinion. But what the anti loan side keeps failing to get is that there is more to this than just the money.

Its great to save up the cash but you have also missed out on X number of years of enjoying life with it. Everybody has their own perspective and there is no right or wrong answer. Only the person making the decision for themselves has the right answer for themselves.


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## mtoddsolomon

Starting to think my loan wasn't a good term. 30 years at 50% APR from some Russian guy near the harbor. That's not what y'all are doing?


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## 321nole

SomaliPirate said:


> Well this thread got interesting all the sudden.


just keeping with tradition.


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## Bluwave

321nole said:


> not that I disagree with your example, I think financing large amounts over long periods for a skiff is outrageous....however, to Steve's point, say I have the $55k in cash to buy it outright, but choose to finance and instead invest that cash. in that same time period earning 4% compounded annually (not unreasonable) I would gain $44k on the investment and net $26k after interest on the loan.



I understand what Steve said, but that's not the majority of skiff buyers. I would dare say that's not even 20% of skiff buyers. My intentions were to discourage people from taking long-term, high-interest loans plain and simple. One of my Vanguard's 5-year avg. return is 14.24%, but there's no guarantee it will stay that way. Now, we could get into an in-depth conversation about the pros/cons of investing vs. buying but let's save that for a different thread.

Also, his example of 4% is pretty unrealistic with 84-month loans averaging around 9% depending on the buyer's credit.


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## RJTaylor

Did I log into THT by mistake?


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## Megalops

RJTaylor said:


> Did I log into THT by mistake?


Depends, you running a YF or Barker?


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## Guest

ifsteve said:


> For sure. But when I buy a ZZZ (Sage, Loomis, Hardy, etc) i know that if I ever have an issue I will get taken care of.


Remember when these same rods [$300 +-] had a free lifetime rod repair policy? Now any repairs may cost you $100+-.


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## FlyBy

mtoddsolomon said:


> Starting to think my loan wasn't a good term. 30 years at 50% APR from some Russian guy near the harbor. That's not what y'all are doing?


Not sure but that might be collusion.
I hope you're making your payments on time, I enjoy your posts.


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## K3anderson

FlyBy said:


> Not sure but that might be collusion.


 Don't worry. Mueller was notified up him hitting "post reply".


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## TheAdamsProject

RJTaylor said:


> Did I log into THT by mistake?


MS is just a big room of Idiots and Experts and the only thing we have in common is we are delusional as to what team we are on.


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## Backcountry 16

nativejax said:


> MS is just a big room of Idiots and Experts and the only thing we have in common is we are delusional as to what team we are on.


I'm both expert idiot here.


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## Backwater

kbanashek said:


> I agree, although I've never had my own fishing TV show..





sjrobin said:


> All of you guys that like Clutch better call Jared.


Can you imagine how much money they spent on advertising on "the show" over and above supplying them with fly rods? Could have been another gamble on their part with marketing that is putting the nails in the coffin. And you have to wonder why Jared is selling the whole lineup? I guess there is a certain few of us that feels a certain way about their rods. Or maybe that is the consensus after fishing them for a certain period of time. Just sayin.....


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## Backwater

ifsteve said:


> So lets see. You want to take your clients out for a paid charter. With rods that no longer have a useful guarantee from a company that appears to be floundering at best. And whose boat apparently got repossessed. You would want to distance yourself from that situation in a NY minute.





LowHydrogen said:


> I wouldn't, it's a reflection of the company not someone who uses the gear.
> 
> Not saying I wouldn't eventually get new rods, obviously I'd have to if the company isn't around. All I was saying was if the rod was awesome last week, it didn't go bad overnight because the company has some shit going on. If Scott or Sage went tits up tomorrow you can bet I won't be selling rods just because they don't have a warranty. Have backups on hand yes, sell them just to sell them, if I like the action and they perform, no. Look at Sears, that situation isn't looking great, I'm not tossing out Craftsman sockets...
> 
> I'd be willing to bet if you were taking clients, and a similar situation happened at Abel, you wouldn't be dumping those nice reels you've got.
> 
> Not trying to stir the pot, just think my first comment was misunderstood.


2 valid points. It's safe to say if a guy had a business and depended on that/those tools day in and day out, then all of a sudden, his tool supplier is floundering and there is no warranty to be found with those tools.... and on the horizon, a new company wants to approach that guy with a new set of tools that feel better in-hand and the guy liked the tools, the company, name brand recognition and warranty and support better, then there is no reason he couldn't jump ship, sell all those old tools at a discount, but the new tools at a discount and continue his business. There is nothing wrong with that.

But there is nothing wrong with a regular guy continuing to use a tool because it serves him well, even tho the company went out of biz or the warranty ran out or is no longer in existence. I still have a rod or 2 like that and if they break one day, then that is the end. But I'm ok with that since I really like them and it's just for fun fishing. But if I were a guy depending them for my livelihood like Jared, then I would be doing what he is currently doing.

That all being said, it appears that if Clutch doesn't make big changes, well then it's possible that the writing on the wall will be the road map to their demise. I hate to see it, but it happens in this industry and I also hate to see it with local fly shops too.

Ted


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## Backwater

As far as financing a boat, I believe someone should live within their means. If they can afford to buy something new or used within their means and pay cash for it, then that's great. If they want or need that boat and it can be financed to reasonable terms and is all within their budget and means, then that is ok too. Biting off more than they can chew and not being able to afford, is not good by any standard.

I see Steve's case in financing, whereas if he had a deal on the table to purchase a boat for $55k and had the cash in the bank to do so, but could borrow that same money @ 4% and leave his $55k cash in his investment portfolio making 10% yield per year, then he can have his boat and still net 6% profit on his investment over his 4% loan. That's just business sense, as long as the investment is stable.


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## Tx_Whipray

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a regular Joe should run out and dump all their Clutch rods if they like them and they are still working fine. But a guy like Jared can probably pick up any new rod sponsor he wants with a single phone call, and as I said...if he's making a living with them, he probably wants them to be under warranty.


----------



## Ruddy Duck LA

Fact: The bank will charge interest.
Not a fact: The after tax return from your investments will always outperform the bank's interest rate.


----------



## ifsteve

Ruddy Duck LA said:


> Fact: The bank will charge interest.
> Not a fact: The after tax return from your investments will always outperform the bank's interest rate.


Fact: True

But not one of you naysayers has addressed the other key factor. Living without a boat so you can save up enough to pay cash. Ted said it best. Live within your means. But if you can afford the payments then what the heck.

Fact: NONE of us are getting out of here alive.


----------



## mtoddsolomon

I have a boat loan. I have a clutch Archipelago 9wt. I love my skiff and I like throwing my clutch. I really don’t give a damn what anybody thinks about either but I’m just here for the entertainment


----------



## FlyBy

I have three boats, one with a loan for about half the value of the boat. That will be paid off this year and I just got the boat in November. I've been using it since November, by virtue of the loan. I don't have a Clutch rod but I have the rods I want and I use them. And I mean no disrespect but I don't care what people think about my boat loan, my rods, or anything else about the way I live. I like fishing.


----------



## andrewwa

I don't think getting rid of the Clutch rods has anything to do with how they cast. More likely its if they can still pay for the sponsorship for a show like Silver Kings, which they probably can't. Also I would dispute the point suggesting that many of the Guides who joined Clutch did so because they got killer deals. For most prostaff deals you get distributor pricing on the gear, which is usually 50% off for fly gear. According to a guide I fished with who uses Clutch, they have the same deal. 

IMO, lifetime guarantees are one of the reasons fly rods are so expensive, along with the market scale. I don't think there is another product in which a lifetime no questions asked guarantee is so prevalent and expected. If you break the rod, you should pay (depending on how much it costs) 75-150 for it to be fixed (excluding defects). 

Brand's have to charge double or triple the price compared to spinning or conventional because they expect that they will have to fix every rod they sell at least once, at a loss. This means they have to maintain/replace the mandrels and other tooling for their old rods, along with their new ones. With most Conventional/Spinning rods you don't have to worry about replacing a section because most are one piece, and most consumers don't expect a replacement beyond 10 years. Additionally, they can only expect sales for their new generation to come from the select few who are gear junkies. 

Looking from the consumer's perspective, having to buy every generation just to stay relevant/well equipped is just horrible (i.e. smartphones). But fly rods are simple tools and don't advance nearly as fast. Some of the upgrades on smartphones are kind of necessary and make their planned obsolescence kind of forgivable, while most innovations in fly rods are not in material technology but in how a rod designer wants to design a taper. 

So there is a tradeoff for both sides and the consumer and industry will decide how that tradeoff will work. Currently, it is in favor of pampering the customer at the expense of higher prices. 

Also, I don't think its that fair to rag on Clutch when you have companies like Loomis charging $275 for their "lifetime guarantee" on their Asquith, for a rod with a blank made overseas no less (their Helix wrap thing is not that expensive, it's been done on several other rods before like the Redington Vapen).

Also there still is the possibility that Clutch might go under and I am not disputing that. That can happen to any company. I am just trying to make the point that having the expectation that your rod will be fixed when you break it is not as fair as it seems. Like a previous poster said, if I owned an Abel SDS, and the company went under, I wouldn't sell it. Why sell something that works perfectly fine and won't break for the foreseeable future? I own a VS CVEX that has been chugging along for a pretty long time and I don't have a problem.


----------



## taffrail

Bluwave said:


> 4. Seriously... don't be an idiot


Why I sold my Blue Wave.


----------



## taffrail

FlyBy said:


> I have three boats, one with a loan for about half the value of the boat. That will be paid off this year and I just got the boat in November. I've been using it since November, by virtue of the loan. I don't have a Clutch rod but I have the rods I want and I use them. And I mean no disrespect but I don't care what people think about my boat loan, my rods, or anything else about the way I live. I like fishing.


It's ok with me if you repeat that. All of it. Some people might not have got it the first time.


----------



## Backwater

mtoddsolomon said:


> I have a boat loan. I have a clutch Archipelago 9wt. I love my skiff and I like throwing my clutch. I really don’t give a damn what anybody thinks about either but I’m just here for the entertainment


Hey bro, no worries! If you like your rod, there is no one here suggesting you get rid of it. If you have it lined properly and like how it fishes for whatever particular situation you use it for, then there is no reason why you shouldn't keep it. I was just suggesting if you love the rod, that's ok, but maybe try casting other rods (matched with lines that work good for those rods) in the same class in the same weight rating, next to your Clutch, and see how they compare.

I had a rod once that was very similar, that was stiff and fast. Had to throw on a heavier line to wake it up, but when I did, it punched razor tight loops straight into the wind and was accurate as can be. Made a great rod for little tunnies offshore. For me, it wasn't fun to throw, but was impressive in the wind, sort of that unique tool when you needed it. But I ended up figuring I could make due with another more all-around rod that was fun to throw and would just work thru the high wind situations. It was one of the ones I sold when I was downsizing my quiver.

Like I say many times.... _"to each, their own"_ and a quote that my daughter taught me... _"You do you and I'll do me!"_ So for whatever reasons you like it, fish it and forget about what anyone else is saying.


----------



## Backwater

andrewwa said:


> Also I would dispute the point suggesting that many of the Guides who joined Clutch did so because they got killer deals. For most prostaff deals you get distributor pricing on the gear, which is usually 50% off for fly gear. According to a guide I fished with who uses Clutch, they have the same deal.
> 
> IMO, lifetime guarantees are one of the reasons fly rods are so expensive, along with the market scale. I don't think there is another product in which a lifetime no questions asked guarantee is so prevalent and expected. If you break the rod, you should pay (depending on how much it costs) 75-150 for it to be fixed (excluding defects).
> 
> Brand's have to charge double or triple the price compared to spinning or conventional because they expect that they will have to fix every rod they sell at least once, at a loss. This means they have to maintain/replace the mandrels and other tooling for their old rods, along with their new ones.


I don't know where you are getting your data from, but there is no company I know banking on the inevitably of having to replace every single rod they build and sell. It's just not true. We see or hear of people breaking rods, especially fly rods. But the simple fact is that it's only a percentage of breakage and most all companies self insure themselves for that and build in a certain percentage of each rod they sell, not dbl or triple what they should normally sell it for. I've talked to upper management of mfgs specifically about this very subject before.

Also, Clutch did build a self glorified image of themselves when they launched on the market and put there rods out for the very top prices the market could bare for high end equipment, instead of building a name brand and reputation of their product to drive the market. In other worlds, they created themselves as the big prima donnas of the industry and they could charge those prices since what they put on the market was the best stuff out there. So the deals some of the guides got were better than the 50% off like you mentioned (some even being free), according to a guide I know as well who is/was sponsored by them by their discount guide program (and are bound not to disclosed the fact).

So it's a sort of self-advertising. But over time, when you have guides taking experienced fly fishermen with money enough to afford a guided trip, It doesn't take long to get enough feedback from their clientele what they prefer, because in the end, it's all about the clients, and the guide's reputation on service and putting them on the fish, and not the name brand equipment they are sporting around. Any good guide wants to have the best equipment possible within what they can afford, to make their clients experience the best possible, hence the reason, so many people got on-board with Clutch thinking initially, it was advertised as the best. But if the clients don't prefer those rods, then the guides are looking for something else that will better improve their clients experience.

Listen, anyone who knows me well will know I too am a big supporter of the new guy on the block. But you find that the new kids that have made their way work on supplying the best products they can at the time, but with a reasonable pricing to get that product in the hands of people to try it out, as an alternative to paying top prices of products from long standing, reputable companies. Then these "new kids" constantly improve their product and over time, can then start charging prices relative to the overall experience with the products and the company's reputation, durability and warranty. In other words, they are justifying their prices as they notch upwards with the big boys. For me, those companies were Tibor, Old Florida (now Nautilus), Redington, TFO, 3-TAND, Douglas, Hairline, EP, Renzetti and many more, outside of long standing companies I supported like Loomis, Sage, Scott, Hardy, Orvis, Islander, Abel and many more.

What I think is Clutch did this thing all backwards and put something out there that they figured was the best, without getting enough overall feedback from top fly casting connoisseurs , as well yas years worth of feedback from the fly fishing community itself, around the country, over time. They launched a company that no one ever heard of with product with not enough feedback, telling people they were the "Best" without a track record or a reputation to be dubbed that title to. So they threw a lot of money at marketing instead of allowing the product to speck for itself over time. So there was no backbone with longevity there to sustain itself through the slow times if necessary. Nothing there to say that these rods are valued there because they earned the business and repeat business, like with companies such as Sage Loomis, Orvis, Hardy, Scott, Winston, and even companies like Redington and TFO (sorry if I left out your favorite company). So when the marketing hype was over, people were working with a rod that was not all that great compares to the retail prices they may have paid. And then where do you stand with a rod that you paid $900 for and the company was in and out quickly in the market and no there is no value there for a "lifetime warranty" with a company that is floundering or completely out of business in only a few years. In my opinion, Lifetime warranty means something with a company that has a long standing reputation for being in business and a warranty dept that backs it up.

Just my thoughts on the subject.


----------



## SomaliPirate

Soooo...If I want to buy all Jared's rods, should I finance them?


----------



## LowHydrogen

SomaliPirate said:


> Soooo...If I want to buy all Jared's rods, should I finance them?


Yep, 10%/15yr APR


----------



## manny2376

SomaliPirate said:


> Soooo...If I want to buy all Jared's rods, should I finance them?


Only if you can get a 20 year term at 13.99%.... let’s be smart here!


----------



## taffrail

Bluwave said:


> Also, his example of 4% is pretty unrealistic with 84-month loans averaging around 9% depending on the buyer's credit.


Well shoot. There I go again standing out from the crowd. I can get 6% for 84 at almost any bank. Lower % at my Credit Union. Depending on the purpose of course. I told one loan officer I wanted to open a "House of Ill Repute". She looked at me real serious then said "I think we're done here." I said "ok, how about a moonshine still?" She showed me to her door. Did you know bankers do NOT have a sense of humor? (Pretty sure someone is about to prove that.)


----------



## sidelock

Backwater said:


> As far as financing a boat, I believe someone should live within their means. If they can afford to buy something new or used within their means and pay cash for it, then that's great. If they want or need that boat and it can be financed to reasonable terms and is all within their budget and means, then that is ok too. Biting off more than they can chew and not being able to afford, is not good by any standard.
> 
> I see Steve's case in financing, whereas if he had a deal on the table to purchase a boat for $55k and had the cash in the bank to do so, but could borrow that same money @ 4% and leave his $55k cash in his investment portfolio making 10% yield per year, then he can have his boat and still net 6% profit on his investment over his 4% loan. That's just business sense, as long as the investment is stable.


If I made a 10% yield overall in my investment portfolio in these volatile times I'd be happier than you know what !


----------



## Backwater

SomaliPirate said:


> Soooo...If I want to buy all Jared's rods, should I finance them?


Not if you don't want them to get repo'd!!


----------



## Backwater

sidelock said:


> If I made a 10% yield overall in my investment portfolio in these volatile times I'd be happier than you know what !


Many people do. My brother does over that. I guess it depends on what the investment is, the risk thereof and how good your market manager is. As for me, I don't invest in the market and don't consider boats as an investment either.


----------



## Snookdaddy

R-Factor said:


> This is an important fact that I think many of us forget when getting caught up in the latest and greatest. I believe Tom Dorsey (founder of Thomas and Thomas) once told me that same line in a matter of words while showing me around the factory. A great casting rod 20 years ago is still a great rod today. I'm grateful for new advancements in technology, but I think there can be some real truth to this.
> *My apologies for getting off track on this thread...back to Clutch.


Amen.. That's why all my rods are old Scott STS rods..


----------



## fjmaverick

Megalops said:


> Depends, you running a YF or Barker?


This is almost as entertaining as the barker drama


----------



## taffrail

sidelock said:


> If I made a 10% yield overall in my investment portfolio in these volatile times I'd be happier than you know what !


Can give you the name of a great money man in the Dallas area. Probably won't be 10 but will be greater than 8.


----------



## andrewwa

Backwater said:


> I don't know where you are getting your data from, but there is no company I know banking on the inevitably of having to replace every single rod they build and sell. It's just not true. We see or hear of people breaking rods, especially fly rods. But the simple fact is that it's only a percentage of breakage and most all companies self insure themselves for that and build in a certain percentage of each rod they sell, not dbl or triple what they should normally sell it for. I've talked to upper management of mfgs specifically about this very subject before.
> 
> Also, Clutch did build a self glorified image of themselves when they launched on the market and put there rods out for the very top prices the market could bare for high end equipment, instead of building a name brand and reputation of their product to drive the market. In other worlds, they created themselves as the big prima donnas of the industry and they could charge those prices since what they put on the market was the best stuff out there. So the deals some of the guides got were better than the 50% off like you mentioned (some even being free), according to a guide I know as well who is/was sponsored by them by their discount guide program (and are bound not to disclosed the fact).
> 
> So it's a sort of self-advertising. But over time, when you have guides taking experienced fly fishermen with money enough to afford a guided trip, It doesn't take long to get enough feedback from their clientele what they prefer, because in the end, it's all about the clients, and the guide's reputation on service and putting them on the fish, and not the name brand equipment they are sporting around. Any good guide wants to have the best equipment possible within what they can afford, to make their clients experience the best possible, hence the reason, so many people got on-board with Clutch thinking initially, it was advertised as the best. But if the clients don't prefer those rods, then the guides are looking for something else that will better improve their clients experience.
> 
> Listen, anyone who knows me well will know I too am a big supporter of the new guy on the block. But you find that the new kids that have made their way work on supplying the best products they can at the time, but with a reasonable pricing to get that product in the hands of people to try it out, as an alternative to paying top prices of products from long standing, reputable companies. Then these "new kids" constantly improve their product and over time, can then start charging prices relative to the overall experience with the products and the company's reputation, durability and warranty. In other words, they are justifying their prices as they notch upwards with the big boys. For me, those companies were Tibor, Old Florida (now Nautilus), Redington, TFO, Hairline, EP, Renzetti and many more, outside of long standing companies I supported like Loomis, Sage, Scott, Hardy, Islander and many more.
> 
> What I think is Clutch did this thing all backwards and put something out there that they figured was the best, without getting enough overall feedback from top fly casting connoisseurs around the country. They launched a company that no one ever heard of with product with not enough feedback, telling people they were the "Best" without a track record or a reputation to be dubbed that title to. So they threw a lot of money at marketing instead of allowing the product to speck for itself over time. So there was no backbone with longevity there to sustain itself through the slow times if necessary. Nothing there to say that these rods are valued there because they earned the business and repeat business, like with companies such as Sage Loomis, Orvis, Hardy, Scott, Winston, and even companies like Redington and TFO (sorry if I left out your favorite company). So when the marketing hype was over, people were working with a rod that was not all that great compares to the retail prices they may have paid. And then where do you stand with a rod that you paid $900 for and the company was in and out quickly in the market and no there is no value there for a "lifetime warranty" with a company that is floundering or completely out of business in only a few years. In my opinion, Lifetime warranty means something with a company that has a long standing reputation for being in business and a warranty dept that backs it up.
> 
> Just my thoughts on the subject.


Ah I didn't know about some of the details you posted. I think the only choice Clutch had was to sell their rods at the very top if they wanted to actually make money (although now it seems that they lost money anyways bc of their marketing strategies) as it is very expensive to start rolling blanks by yourself int he USA. I don't think there is another relatively new rod mfg, let's say 7-10 yrs, that has started with making their own products, no less in the USA. The two that come to mind, Taylor and Allen, started out with, and still sell some oem rebranded stuff from overseas. But yes I agree that in comparision to the rest of the market a $900 rod without a solid assurance that it can be repaired for the next 10 yrs is not a good value proposition.


----------



## Fishshoot

Backwater said:


> Many people do. My brother does over that. I guess it depends on what the investment is, the risk thereof and how good your market manager is. As for me, I don't invest in the market and don't consider boats as an investment either.


I’m up, I’m down but the reality of any investment you don’t know what your total return in it is until it is sold. I may be up in a stock for example 40% in past year but until I sell it that gain isn’t real. Yes I know dividends are real. And I know returns on real estate investments are real, but still not totally realized until sold.


----------



## Backwater

fjmaverick said:


> This is almost as entertaining as the barker drama


Dude, we need to sic Barker on Jared's rod line up.

_"I'll offer you $700 for the whole set of rods!"_


----------



## LowHydrogen

Backwater said:


> Dude, we need to sic Barker on Jared's rod line up.
> 
> _"I'll offer you $700 for the whole set of rods!"_


Shipped... lol


----------



## Capt.Ron

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Oh I’m all about the “best rod ever” from a reputable builder, from 5 years ago lol. Much more realistic pricing when they go on clearance, or through various guide programs etc. With that said, the next rod I add to the quiver will probably be a Crosscurrent Pro-1 and I don’t even get a discount on those. They were great rods a decade ago, and they still are today!


better buy them now, they are no longer being made


----------



## Caleb.Esparza

Capt.Ron said:


> better buy them now, they are no longer being made


Good to know!


----------



## fjmaverick

https://www.foxbusiness.com/small-b...ds-successful-business-on-custom-fishing-rods


----------



## Tx_Whipray

He'll never make it without 50,000 Instagram followers, 12 brand ambassadors, and a $70,000 custom wrapped skiff.


----------



## SomaliPirate

Tx_Whipray said:


> He'll never make it without 50,000 Instagram followers, 12 brand ambassadors, and a $70,000 custom wrapped skiff.


I've already DM'd him some of my bikini pics and inquired about a prostaff position.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

andrewwa said:


> Ah I didn't know about some of the details you posted. I think the only choice Clutch had was to sell their rods at the very top if they wanted to actually make money (although now it seems that they lost money anyways bc of their marketing strategies) as it is very expensive to start rolling blanks by yourself int he USA. I don't think there is another relatively new rod mfg, let's say 7-10 yrs, that has started with making their own products, no less in the USA. The two that come to mind, Taylor and Allen, started out with, and still sell some oem rebranded stuff from overseas. But yes I agree that in comparision to the rest of the market a $900 rod without a solid assurance that it can be repaired for the next 10 yrs is not a good value proposition.


Northfork Composites are rolled in Washington and they have fly blanks too. I guess you can call them new but Gary Loomis is part of the staff.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

fjmaverick said:


> https://www.foxbusiness.com/small-b...ds-successful-business-on-custom-fishing-rods


Bwahaha, he has to be selling meth on the side.


----------



## EdK13

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Bwahaha, he has to be selling meth on the side.


Frank Rizzo said the same thing..


----------



## Smackdaddy53

EdK13 said:


> Frank Rizzo said the same thing..


He did have that big schnauz...


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Bwahaha, he has to be selling meth on the side.


Buy a rod, get a square grouper free!*

*Rods start at $2,500 each.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Tx_Whipray said:


> Buy a rod, get a square grouper free!*
> 
> *Rods start at $2,500 each.


That’s about what it takes to make a profit on building custom rods even if you wrap them all black and keep them simple. I had a guy call me today and ask if he bought 500 rod blanks could I build them for him...I guess he had the number for the OTHER Malaysian sweat shop...


----------



## EdK13

Smackdaddy53 said:


> That’s about what it takes to make a profit on building custom rods even if you wrap them all black and keep them simple. I had a guy call me today and ask if he bought 500 rod blanks could I build them for him...I guess he had the number for the OTHER Malaysian sweat shop...


----------



## Renegade

They’ve been in trouble for well over 6 months. They’ve had my 5wt ARC since August for repair. 

At first I got poor communication, then excuses, then no communication, then reassurances about restructuring, then character witnesses. What I never got was my rod back.


----------



## mangoman

man this thread is making me thirsty


----------



## Backwater

SomaliPirate said:


> I've already DM'd him some of my bikini pics and inquired about a prostaff position.


Nobody wants to see you in a bikini!


----------



## SomaliPirate

Backwater said:


> Nobody wants to see you in a bikini!


Halloween 2011 confirmed that statement!


----------



## Backwater

SomaliPirate said:


> Halloween 2011 confirmed that statement!


TMI!


----------



## flyclimber

Snookdaddy said:


> Amen.. That's why all my rods are old Scott STS rods..


Let me know if you get sick of them


----------



## Fsh_paintr

I had a bad experience with Clutch and that was my sign to never deal with them again as well as cut my loses. I messaged Lee early in when their Arc line was released and asked if they sold blanks. He told me it was an area they were looking into and he’s be glad to sell me whatever. I requested the 8wt arc 4 piece blank. Made it and I was pretty satisfied with the rod itself. I thought it casted nicely, not on NRX territory in terms accuracy but it was surprisingly easy to get distance from (but that’s an opinion). After a year I noticed the tip section started to bend/curve. I’m pretty anal when it comes to my gear in terms of care and storage. Rods are washed after every use and they are stored in a rod rack not under tension of fly line. I messaged Lee directly as I have his cell number. Told him what was going on and even showed him pictures of how my rods are stored and of the issue I saw with the blank. He had this overly surprised test back and asked if I had done certain things like put it under a flame (?!?) or if I stored it in my truck. Obvious No to both answers and asked if he had any kind of warranty policy but all I anted to do was get that tip section switched out for a new one. He said he’d get back to me but he wanted to talk with his guys and he was sure he could do something. Heard nothing back for a few weeks. Messaged him again and he said he’s looking into and would message me back shortly. Still never heard back from him even after sending him/clutch and email. After that, I figured things were going awry and vowed I wouldn’t be buying any more of their products. I was happy with the product personally. Was it in Loomis territory, which I had plenty of experience with prior, no. But I was very excited to buy into a product I though and personally felt after use was of pretty damn good quality only to be brushed aside because I wasn’t a big part of their marketing. I’ve seen them bend over backwards for many particular guides who needed the customer service to keep their business running. And although I didn’t expect that level of service, I expected at least half the effort to make a customer happy with a defective product. I will say I was happy with their product itself and how it performed. The Blank I bought was $300 which was way less than the prebuilt product advertised to be superior. But now I wonder if I got a defect (which would have been dishonest to begin with) or if I dodged a bullet in continuing giving these guys my business. I really wanted to but fully build rods from them and custom make more of their blanks, but if that’s how their customer service was going to be, even after directly talking to the owner on his personal cell, the market (us) are better off without them in it.


----------



## Backwater

Yikes! I hate to see that happening to any person, as well as hearing that about any business in the fly fishing industry here in the U.S.. Customer service or the lack thereof, speaks volumes about any company.


----------



## Nick wysocki

Just talked to Lee and they are definitely not gone just rebuilding. Good things coming down the pipe


----------



## Flyfishin4redfish

Nick wysocki said:


> Just talked to Lee and they are definitely not gone just rebuilding. Good things coming down the pipe


Stop drinking the kool-aid. They have been saying this since January.

Still waiting for a response from him about my broken arc. He’s seen my messages just doesn’t care to respond he would rather feed you bs about things to come.

Btw anyone looking for a broken 7wt arc or a 7wt core? Message me letting them go cheap.


----------



## AMiller

Hey guys I just got off the phone with Lee. He said not only are things going great but he's giving everybody that holds their breath for the rebuild a t shirt, a salt life sticker, and trip to Cancun!

But he's still not going to return your calls flyfishin4redfish. Sorry bud.


----------



## Backwater

Rebuild to what? He'll have to scratch most of the rods he's got so far and actually listen to the right people about what a rod needs to be, and listen to what the customers are saying, then build rods and customer service around that. That is the formula to having a decent rod, with decent customer service that stands behind good warranties, to be a good company. But bad habits are hard to break. I guess time will tell the end of the story.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail

Backwater said:


> Rebuild to what? He'll have to scratch most of the rods he's got so far and actually listen to the right people about what a rod needs to be, and listen to what the customers are saying, then build rods and customer service around that. That is the formula to having a decent rod, with decent customer service that stands behind good warranties, to be a good company. But bad habits are hard to break. I guess time will tell the end of the story.


I don't have the slightest bit of experience with Clutch rods but, IMHO, I am not spending the kind of money they want for a rod on an upstart company unless they're local to me and I know the ownership.

If you want to break into the fly rod game do like TFO, Echo, Allen, and Redington have done and go with more budget-minded gear but do so with tremendous customer service. Then if you still feel the need perhaps go for more high-end rods. Otherwise, I'm sticking with one of the legacy brands with a long-standing reputation for quality.


----------



## kbanashek

Finn Maccumhail said:


> I don't have the slightest bit of experience with Clutch rods but, IMHO, I am not spending the kind of money they want for a rod on an upstart company unless they're local to me and I know the ownership.
> 
> If you want to break into the fly rod game do like TFO, Echo, Allen, and Redington have done and go with more budget-minded gear but do so with tremendous customer service. Then if you still feel the need perhaps go for more high-end rods. Otherwise, I'm sticking with one of the legacy brands with a long-standing reputation for quality.


Agreed, earn your stripes with the fundamental core variables that make up a successful business model, then begin to offer products at premium prices that hopefully will warrant them in quality.


----------



## Backwater

Ok, I have an *update* about the situation about Lee (owner of Clutch). An owner of a respected rod company reached out to me this morning about this thread, who wanted to be nameless, who knows Lee and said that the reason that any contact with Lee has been few and far between lately is he recently lost his 17yr old son in a tragic horrific accident (canoe flipped over accidentally and his son drowned) and now he's suffering the loss of his own son right now. So I'm sure he's not in a place where he can do much about kickstarting the company back up right now. The gentleman that shared the news with me is insinuating that the public and his customers out there be patience and understanding and they will get there, but will take some time.

That kind of tragedy can change people in more ways than we will ever know, aside from his company suffering some defeats. I've seen it change my brother when he lost his 19yr old son. You never really get over it. I too have a 17yr old son that loves to canoe and I never give it a second though as he loads it up on the jeep and heads to the river with his buddies. So it hits home with me and now I'll worry more than I should.

I've also seen a community of people rally around people that are going through that and support them in more ways than thought possible. We here at microskiff can also be a community that can be patient and supportive until he gets through this. I, for one, will now be hopeful for Lee and his crew and see what he can come up with. I will be praying for him and his loss(es), as well as his company in hopes that God will bring him out and through of all this and give him and his family _"beauty for ashes."_

_To all who mourn in Israel, he will give a crown of beauty for ashes, a joyous blessing instead of mourning, festive praise instead of despair. In their righteousness, they will be like great oaks that the Lord has planted for his own glory._ - Isaiah 61:3


~Ted Haas


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## Capt._A_J

I spoke with Lee last night. As Ted relayed, the tragedy of losing a Family member is life changing.


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## Joe M

Any update as to when Clutch will be back in business?


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## Renegade

Joe M said:


> Any update as to when Clutch will be back in business?


I think it’s safe to say that ship has sailed. Along with my rod.


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## Smackdaddy53

Who gives a shit about fly rods? The guy’s son passed away. Go buy one of the many other fly rods out there and let it be.


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