# Riptide for tarpon



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Late April tarpon are usually full of piss-n-vinegar getting fired up for either the migration or the spawn, especially the smaller males. So they tend to have more stored energy and their burst and runs can be impressive during that time. Plus the water temps are still cool, like in the upper 70's, so their endurance levels are usually better. So keep that in mind when think about backing capacities. I'd be shooting for a min of 250yrds and even 300yrds for the big girls down there.

If you are currently using a 9 or 10wt on the Riptide. I wouldn't separate them for the use of the 11wt, because April is a good time for permit as a plan "B", as well as other toothy critters and the 9 or 10wt will work good for that. Otherwise, you can use the 11wt for permit, but being a heavier rod makes it difficult to blind cast for hours on end when the water stirs up from the winds (April winds). A little over gunned for smaller permit, but a good rod for giant permit. Again, you are limiting your ability to blind casting all day if it came to that for plan "B" fishing. Also, as another plan "B" fish, smaller juvinal tarpon can be a great alternate up along the mangroves and in protected cuts between islands if the winds pick up. A 9 or 10wt would be better suited for that instead of being over gunned with an 11wt.

Otherwise in a "one reel" operation, your guide can tell you when to make the switch (9-10wt rod to the 11wt), have a spare spool spun up with 50lb Toro Tamer flat hollow core backing (I can give a link), which will give you more backing capacity than 30lb dacron backing up to the 250-300yrs needed. I'm testing it and starting to like it. It will work for your situation. Then switch the reel and spool on the 11wt or back, and your in business! 

One last thing you can do is look for a good used Gulfstream or another alternative reel (new or used) just for that one purpose, within your budget. If you are open to that, with a budget, we can give you some good recommendations for an alternate reel.

Ted Haas


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

Agree with Ted, so "yes". I certainly think the Riptide is enough reel for most of those fish. If you're in a boat with another person, it's hard to see you ever getting more than 200 yards away from the fish. Pretty sure you could not break that reel pulling hard up-and-down with 16 or even 20# tippet on an 11 wt.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Get another reel. You won't be sorry having the ability to have both your 10 and 11 wts rigged and ready.


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## IRLyRiser (Feb 14, 2007)

A gulfstream is perfect on an 11 FYI.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

We routinely take tarpon up to around 80lbs on just a 10wt in open shallow bays in the interior of the 'Glades... but that said, a 10wt isn't what you want with big fish in small rivers where the water is much deeper and you may have to slug it out with a big wild fish in very close quarters. For that sort of stuff I want my angler armed with an 11 or 12 wt.... I make no distinction as far as reel sizes for 11 or 12wts for both I want a minimum of around 300 yards of good old fashioned 30lb dacron (those willing to use braid will have a different equation). For me the big difference between an 11 and a 12 wt is ease of casting... I have more than a few anglers able to work an 11 wt a lot longer than a 12 wt. The big difference to me is actually how they're used... A 12wt out in clear water is only going to get worked when you have a clear shot at a fish. Up inside rivers we may make two or three times as many casts at fish - and over time all that extra rod work is pretty tiring if you're using a standard heavy 12wt - and that's where an 11 shines, in my opinion.

In short don't get a reel that is less than you might need for that 11wt... You'll find that a slightly larger reel won't be that much extra weight and you'll be really glad to have it with a big fish on the line....


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Get a used gulf stream or pacific. Lots of folks using pacific on 11wt.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

OP asked: Does the Riptide have the capacity and drag to fight late April tarpon in the keys?

My answer is still yes.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Wow! All great replies guys!

As ifsteve stated, your best option is to have the 2nd reel and have that double barrel, locked and loaded. Only I think the Pacific is overkill on an 11wt. As IRLyRiser stated, the Gulfstream is perfect for that rod. Like Flysalt stated, get it used to save money (good time of year now to keep a look out for a good one that's a deal). As mwolaver stated the RT will work if need be. The Riptide will handle it for sure (drag wise), but lacks the backing IMO and what Capt LeMay confirmed, you really need more. Sure, the Guide can help run the fish down to catch up with backing. But that doesn't always work out, be it angler or guides fault.

Everyone here know I'm a big fan of 30lb Cortland Micron (little thinner than the 30lb dacron, so you get a little more backing capacity), but this would be the rare case (if he needed to stick with the Riptide) where I would use something like this Toro Tamer (slj??? turned me on to it). It's super smooth with 16 strands and lays flat, so it's wide as 30lb micron if it happens to run across your fingers. The jury is still out on it for me, but in this particular case where he needs to use the Riptide, it will give him that extra insurance he needs with backing capacity (like at least 250yrds with an 11wt line), Then I'd use it. The however, it will be a chore changing fly lines as oppose to just popping on another loaded spare spool. But, without the spare spool, it still can be done. Only you will have to have that other backing loaded on, or just have a lot of faith in yourself and your guide that he will not let the fish run further than 150yrds from the boat (not easy). I'm like Bob LeMay, I like that backing capacity. Time is also a factor in that equasion, especially when you are wasting your valuable guided time. So your best bet is, like ifsteve said, have another one ready.

Speaking of Bob, you should book a trip while you are down there with Capt Bob LeMay for Everglades poons, in addition to the Keys poon fishin. April is a hot month for Glades poons!  No matter what the winds are doing out on the outside (and April can be bad for sudden wind changes), you can always go inside in the protected rivers and bays and catch them there too. 

Good luck and have fun!

Ted Haas

Btw, welcome to the Fly Fishing Forum of Microskiff. What area are you from?


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. Frankly, my guide said use a 12 wt (which would require the Gulftsream jump) but I thought I could sneak by with an 11 wt and the Riptide. He will have plenty of rods loaded for tarpon and permit in addition to what I bring.

I currently own an 8, 9 and 10 wt with an 11 wt on the way. The main reason I wanted to stick with the Riptide is I can practice casting it very soon, I already need a spare spool for my normal fishing, I need another Riptide for my normal fishing, and I can likely manage a way to use it in the Keys if it's rigged properly.

This brings me to my next thought. The trip to the Keys is a huge deal for me in both cost and more importantly time (this trip was recently approved by my seven month pregnant wife, I'm feeling lucky). Do I really want to get spooled or smash a rod if I hook up and play my first tarpon on the fly incorrectly?

I have already purchase the new 11 wt so maybe I am better off practicing with that, using it on blown out days in the surf, and just switching to the guides rods once I'm down there.

I'm up on the North Shore of Mass. I do most of my fishing for stripers from shore, take a few striper flats trips a year, and go after stripers/albies/blues on a CC a few times a year. My best fishing has been for stripers on the flats. Seeing the fish, for me, is where it's at.

There was a Gulfstream on eBay for 385...but it had a salmon etched on it...


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Here's a cheaper alternative that for many years was considered the standard for Keys guides... The old Billy Pate tarpon model in direct drive is regularly found up for sale used in the $300 range. The things are absolutely bullet-proof (and mine would be the first reel in the bag if I were headed to the Amazon or other remote location....). You'll have to decide whether you're wanting left or right hand drive since they aren't interchangeable (and I'm told that Tibor no longer has the parts to do the conversion....). Yes the Tarpon was the fore-runner before the Riptide, Gulfstream, etc - and it's certainly a bit old-fashioned but it won't fail you... and it will probably still be going strong when that future angler comes of age and wants to borrow it....

Another plus is that a Billy Pate will always sell when priced reasonably....


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

All the pioneers caught fish on insufficient reels in the beginning, so you can too! There are 6lb world records aren't they?
Its probably better for the fish to be fought on big gear and released asap though.
And after you fight one for a long time, you will wish you had proper gear as well.
grain of salt.....


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Two Riptides sold on Ebay last night for $255 and $265. There was also a Pacific by the same seller that sold for like $350


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

I like to try and pick up new items with warranty cards for a good price on eBay. There wouldn't be an issue with a used Tibor but in general that's not my preference. Maybe I'll take a look in that direction.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

I am not enough of a man to sling a pacific around on a 12wt all day. Especially the heavier quick change model I had for a short stint.

Gulfstream or smaller or another reel company.

I'm sure a riptide would work, but if I remember correctly you get a larger drag on the gulfstream than the riptide, as well as extra line and backing capacity.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

Not sure if it was stated earlier - but if you will be with a guide - most of them have top notch setups to provide - I ve actually never been out with a guide that didn't have a great feeling package all ready to go


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Yea, like I said, a Riptide can handle them but the Gulfstream is better suited. The Pacific is overkill. Poons in the Keys generally run smaller than the fish we have up on the Gulf coast. It's also shallower, so lifting is not as big of an issue as it is for us, which for us, normally requires a 12wt. Also in April, the males typically are more aggressive than the females since they are burning up the calories competing with each other (for the reasons I mentioned above). For that reason, they will beat the females to the fly since the males are very competitive with each other, that time of year. 

So the Keys male typically run between 50-80lbs. For those shallow water fish, an 11wt is ideal. The guides want you to use a 12wt so you will put more pressure on the fish, not because they are bigger but because they want you to get em in quicker. Learning proper fighting techniques to apply maximum pressure on the fish, with an 11wt, and you'll be fine. I personally know Andy Mills and his go-to Keys poon stick is an 11wt, if that tells you anything, tho he is also one of the masters at applying heavy pressure on fish.

One of the key things I teach people is ALWAYS be applying pressure to the fish. No stale mates, no sit down and rest because when you take a break and rest, so will the fish. Also, you are fighting the fish with the butt section of the rod and not the tip or mid section. That means keeping the rod more pointed at the fish and lifting with the handle and always cranking down on the handle (almost like a winch) when you can (not just reeling in line when he comes towards you).

Capt LeMay's suggestion to getting a classic older tarpon reel, used, is also a good suggestion, if you can't find a good used Gulfstream by then. Reels like Billy Pate, Islander, Able, newer Finn nors, Or alternate newer reels but good used, like Hardy, Galvan, Nautilus, Hatch, etc.... But be patient, they will surface on-line between now and Feb. If you play your cards right, you'll find the right one. If not by then, don't sweet it, bring the Rip tide anyways, as I stated above. Your safety net is what MSG said "your guide will have good equipment on-board.

Do practice with that 11wt. The 11's are not far off of the 12's and will help build the right muscles by then. Also practicing with that 11wt will dramatically improve your game with your lighter rods.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

After all this back and forth between the Riptide and Gulfstream it looks like I might grab a Galvan T-12 off eBay. I think the price is right for my first tarpon trip, it's light, and has the the required backing. I know they don't have the same reputations at Tibors and Abels but they aren't junk...I don't think

Edit: one minute after this post I was outbid. Made a nice Tibor impulse buy.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

brokeoff said:


> After all this back and forth between the Riptide and Gulfstream it looks like I might grab a Galvan T-12 off eBay. I think the price is right for my first tarpon trip, it's light, and has the the required backing. I know they don't have the same reputations at Tibors and Abels but they aren't junk...I don't think
> 
> Edit: one minute after this post I was outbid. Made a nice Tibor impulse buy.


Which Tibor?


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Well, I picked up a NIB Everglades. This won't be used for the keys but it will allow me to take the Riptide off my current 9wt and put it on the new 11 wt. Then I can use the Everglades for the 8/9 wts.

I am still keeping my eyes peeled for a NIB Gulfstream but will use the Riptide if I have to. It's amazing that these reels are available basically new with card for 60-70% of retail.

Also, one of my big concerns with the Gulfstream was the weight, but the Tibor Signature 11/12 comes in at 13.6 oz as opposed to the Gulfstream at 10.9 oz.

Now I'm happy I got outbid on the Galvan...I was starting to get some bidders remorse when seeing other Tibors come up for sale.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

@brokeoff - Gulfstream all the way for 11 and 12 wt setups. Best tarpon reel out there, hands down. If you hook a 120+ pound fish, you'll want the right reel for the job. I have no problem with the Gulfstream weight - I can cast my 12 setup all day long, that includes an intermediate head and up to 4/0 flies, without much fatigue.


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## tibor25 (Apr 17, 2016)

I use the riptide on my 10wt with the all clear floater, and I like the gulfstream a lot for 11-12. I use a Pacific a lot too when I'm feeling like a hoss


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

With larger rods, heavier reels can actually work to your benefit. If you are keeping your elbow low to your side and planted, instead of up high and out and swinging, a heavier reel will act as a counter balance to the heavier rod and especially with the heavier line. I've proven that theory on too many occasions.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Another vote for Tibor here. I've got a Riptide on my 10wt and have whipped poon up to about 70# on it. A couple guys who's knowledge and experience I really respect and have appreciated their advice will say that you can handle poon up to about 90-100# on a 10wt but if you're likely to be into triple-digit sized fish you want to go with the Gulfstream and at least an 11wt. Personally, I use a 12wt with the Gulfstream. 

I'm still pretty much a tarpon beginner and can count the number I've leadered or grabbed on one hand. But I'm fortunate to know some guys who have caught hundreds of tarpon and get their advice.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Pulled the trigger on a Gulfstream too.


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Looking for line options. I picked up a Wulff TT 11 wt line and took it for a test drive in 25+ mph winds. I can't make a great judgement on the TT since the conditions were a bit crazy. The wind could have been much stronger but this is my best guess.

Any suggestions on lines for a Salt 1190-4?


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

Backwater said:


> With larger rods, heavier reels can actually work to your benefit. If you are keeping your elbow low to your side and planted, instead of up high and out and swinging, a heavier reel will act as a counter balance to the heavier rod and especially with the heavier line. I've proven that theory on too many occasions.


I've heard Ted mention this before and some others - however - I am still trying to understand this and it has not been my experience that heavier is better - basically as you move the rod forward and rearward, you need to be able to stop abruptly and precisely - makes no sense to me that more mass makes it easier to stop or control. The less mass moving forward than the easier and more accurately you should be able to stop it - seems like simple physics, less mass is easier to stop - what can I be missing in this?


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

MSG, could it be that as the rod moves forward on the forward stroke, the heavy reel moving backwards makes the stop easier?


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

brokeoff said:


> MSG, could it be that as the rod moves forward on the forward stroke, the heavy reel moving backwards makes the stop easier?


Thought of that - but it's still more mass that you need to control - doesn't make sense to me. You still need to be able to precisely control the mass for a complete stop - it seems that more mass will simply be more difficult to stop precisely. If that were true, then how much mass is too much? That argument would mean that increased mass up to a point is better, but beyond that point it makes it worse? I don't claim to have all the answers and I'm not trying to be difficult, but I cannot figure out how more mass could be better - I'm hoping someone that believes it is can clarify it for me. Up until now, I've always found lighter to be better - and I also think the rod seems more responsive the lighter the reel I put on it


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

We just need to local fly fishing physicist to chime in...


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## afernandez (Aug 28, 2013)

brokeoff said:


> Looking for line options. I picked up a Wulff TT 11 wt line and took it for a test drive in 25+ mph winds. I can't make a great judgement on the TT since the conditions were a bit crazy. The wind could have been much stronger but this is my best guess.
> 
> Any suggestions on lines for a Salt 1190-4?


You can pick up an Airflo Ridge 11wt line for $40 on eBay right now. Only line I use and getting it for half the price of the hottest "new" lines is a steal. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Airflo-Ridg...265404?hash=item569349a83c:g:hnsAAOSwUKxYeFXf

FYI I use this on my 11wt gulfstream setup. I have the spool 2 arbor on which i load up with a 300yd spool of white 50lb power pro for backing. Works great.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

afernandez said:


> You can pick up an Airflo Ridge 11wt line for $40 on eBay right now. Only line I use and getting it for half the price of the hottest "new" lines is a steal. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Airflo-Ridg...265404?hash=item569349a83c:g:hnsAAOSwUKxYeFXf
> 
> FYI I use this on my 11wt gulfstream setup. I have the spool 2 arbor on which i load up with a 300yd spool of white 50lb power pro for backing. Works great.


airflow ridge is my other 11wt line - really great line - especially at that price


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

brokeoff said:


> We just need to local fly fishing physicist to chime in...


I would like that - I don't feel the need to be right -but It just doesn't make sense to me...more moving mass seems to be bad. Actually, I would sort of like to be wrong - I have coveted a tibor for a while, but the weight has held me back


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Certainly not an expert or a physicist or a NASA engineer but in my personal experience casting and when watching/assisting others sometimes I feel a little extra mass in the reel or butt section helps the caster stay on plane a little better. Whether it adjusts the swing weight or the rod feels unbalanced I have noticed casters tend to over correct their cast which causes poor forward loops if they have extra mobility due to the lightness of the rod. Think staying in a groove. Please excuse any incorrect terminology but hopefully you get the idea. In the crude explaniation above it shows itself more in the 7wt and up rather than the 3-5wts.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

In regards to the original question. You are going to want one eventually so just keep your eye out for a deal and dont hesitate. I think you would be good with 2 riptides or a riptide and a gulfstream. I would not hesitate to throw that gulfstream on the 10wt for permit either. Its not a hundred cast endevor but Im not really picky about the reel as log as its a Tibor. For example the Freestone is a big deal but is almost identical in size to my DD Billy Pate trout. Love that little thing and its caught more redfish and bonefish on my 6wt then it will ever see in trout.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MSG said:


> Thought of that - but it's still more mass that you need to control - doesn't make sense to me. You still need to be able to precisely control the mass for a complete stop - it seems that more mass will simply be more difficult to stop precisely. If that were true, then how much mass is too much? That argument would mean that increased mass up to a point is better, but beyond that point it makes it worse? I don't claim to have all the answers and I'm not trying to be difficult, but I cannot figure out how more mass could be better - I'm hoping someone that believes it is can clarify it for me. Up until now, I've always found lighter to be better - and I also think the rod seems more responsive the lighter the reel I put on it


Ok do this. Take your 11wt rod with all the flyline rolled up on the spool. Now shadow cast it. Make sure you notice the swing weight. Now take your reel off and with just the rod only (and no fly reel weight at all), shadow cast that and notice the swing weight of the rod and rod tip. Put the reel back on, try that again and then with the reel off. Tell me you don't notice anything. What you will find is the rods swing weight will feel heavier without the reel, than with the reel.

Another crude way to demonstrate this is find one of those wooden broom handles with the screw end where you can put different attachments on it. Try casting it like a fly rod, then put on a light brush, then change it out for something heavier. You see that the heavier attachment will cause the handle to feel lighter on the swing.

It's all about counter balancing and fulcrum points (i.e., basic physics). 

If, you are not feeling the difference, then there is something that needs to be address with your casting. PM me and I'll set you up with video observation of your casting so I can see what's going on.

Don't worry, I love a light reel from anything from an 8wt downward. But starting with 9wts and working upwards, you'll see that going lighter in the reel is not always the best option with those rods in a faster, stiffer blanks with those heavier weighted fly lines.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

Ted,
That was a thoughtful response, and I understand the point. Thank you - I have no doubt that too light of a real can have the opposite effect. After carefully considering it, it appears to me that the example you provided was one extreme, and obviously it makes the point, but I think the real issue is the "in between" somewhere - meaning, at what point does the reel become too light, and too heavy. Even though the mass helps in the extreme example of the fulcrum point, at some point once the rod starts moving the mass that helped it to begin moving now must be stopped - so there is a point where the mass works for you, and then hurts you. I guess it will be individual preference to decide where those points are.
For example, on my 9 wt nrx pro 1 - I have compared three various weight reels back to back with the same line. The first reel weighed 5.1 ounces, the second weighed 6.3 ounces and the third weighed 8.5 ounces. I felt the 5.1 ounce felt the best to me, with the 6.3 feeling good as well, just little different and heavier, but not an issue versus the 5.1. The 8.5 ounce reel to me simply felt too heavy - the rod seems less responsive as a result. 
For tarpon reels, the Nautilus silver king is 9.9 ounces - the tibor signature is 13.1 ounces. Both of these reels are heavy enough for the fulcrum effect to work, but I guess some experiments would be needed to see whatever any individual prefers, and when too much weight hurts. Like I said with my 9 wt test - I would be happy any where from 5.1 to 6.3 ounces, but at some point over that weight, I feel it becomes detrimental.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I saw a Fin-Nor 4.5 Tarpon reel on eBay for $195. More than enough reel for Tarpon


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MSG said:


> Ted,
> That was a thoughtful response, and I understand the point. Thank you - I have no doubt that too light of a real can have the opposite effect. After carefully considering it, it appears to me that the example you provided was one extreme, and obviously it makes the point, but I think the real issue is the "in between" somewhere - meaning, at what point does the reel become too light, and too heavy. Even though the mass helps in the extreme example of the fulcrum point, at some point once the rod starts moving the mass that helped it to begin moving now must be stopped - so there is a point where the mass works for you, and then hurts you. I guess it will be individual preference to decide where those points are.
> For example, on my 9 wt nrx pro 1 - I have compared three various weight reels back to back with the same line. The first reel weighed 5.1 ounces, the second weighed 6.3 ounces and the third weighed 8.5 ounces. I felt the 5.1 ounce felt the best to me, with the 6.3 feeling good as well, just little different and heavier, but not an issue versus the 5.1. The 8.5 ounce reel to me simply felt too heavy - the rod seems less responsive as a result.
> For tarpon reels, the Nautilus silver king is 9.9 ounces - the tibor signature is 13.1 ounces. Both of these reels are heavy enough for the fulcrum effect to work, but I guess some experiments would be needed to see whatever any individual prefers, and when too much weight hurts. Like I said with my 9 wt test - I would be happy any where from 5.1 to 6.3 ounces, but at some point over that weight, I feel it becomes detrimental.


Usually it's at a 9wt where you start noticing the difference, depending on the rod. There are many flavors of rods out there, some with different characteristics than others. But definitely in a 10wt. In an 11wt and up, I'd stop worrying about splitting hairs in weight. 10oz vs 15oz, will not be as much of factor as fly line weight. And you have other things to deal with, like how you are casting that heavy line. But test the 2 reel weights on your 11wt NRX Pro with line on it and see what feels better. You may be surprised that the heavier weighted reel will help feel your rod swing weight lighter, which is more important than how the over all weight of the rig feel by just lifting it up. Remember, you are not constantly blind casting 11 & 12 wt rods, like you do with the lighter rods, but in fact, you are mostly sight casting, occasionally, here and there.

BTW, regardless, if you are not doing some basic workout routine before tarpon season, you are going to be worn out before the game get's started, much less halfway thru the fight.  And at that point where you are staring down a string of fish coming straight at you, everything else goes out the window and it doesn't matter if you are casting a piece of dried spaghetti noodle for a rod with a spool of Danville thread as the reel, or a tree trimming pole as a rod and a boat wench for the reel, because in the end, it'll feel like nothing is there between you and the fish! Whatever you are fishing with will just be an extension of you. 



And that's my experience with the subject!

Ted Haas


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