# Frustrating Hookup Ratio - Wrong fly? Bad casting? Spooky fish?



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

not2shabby said:


> What do y'all do to be sensitive to spooky fish?


Curse words. Blame the wind, clouds, and the bow fishing crowd. It's never your fault.



not2shabby said:


> How many flies to you cycle through?


No more than 2. If they won't eat something gold, or something purple, something is wrong with the fish and I'm going home.


not2shabby said:


> Is 6:1 really as bad as it feels?


All jokes aside, it just takes practice.


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

Some days they eat any good (or even flubbed) shot and some days they are standoffish... could be tide, moon, the flat got burned, too calm and they feel the boat. Clear and shallow water both tend to make them a little spookier.

Chalk it up to a tough day; if they were all easy it would get boring pretty quickly.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Reds on the middle coast have been very skittish the last several trips for me too. I’m not talking about throwing lures on top of their head like a rookie, I mean they are spooking almost as soon as they become visible. Lots of airboats and boats in general burning the flats right now getting ready for the opening of second duck season next Saturday. I have been communicating with many guides and fishing buddies and they are having to move to completely different areas every time they find redfish that are that spooky to find reds that will cooperate. We resorted to blind casting last trip after spooking over 70-80 reds and even making super long casts you would see reds waking away from the lure as soon as it hit the water. I’ve had them spook before the lure hit the water so many times it’s silly. 
Some methods guys in completely different states recommend just don’t apply to our fishery just as some of our methods do not apply over there.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

The combination of heavy pressure (not just fishing - but nice folks pretty much running near or over fish day after day.. it all adds up) and clear waters can make reds as spooky as downtown big bonefish... so your approaches and deliveries need to be well thought out (don't be like me - very carefully analyzing what we did wrong - after the fact...). In some cases you do need to go "somewhere else" -but in today's world of super skinny skiffs that are very well equipped and operated, "somewhere else"
-that mythical place where no one bothers the fish in perfect settings.. may simply not exist..... 

Back in the stone age (mid seventies) when I first got interested in skinny water fishing, there were lots of places that we (most of us) simply could not fish since we needed more water or the ability to navigate vast backcountry areas without GPS - so fish had lots of sanctuaries. That's simply not true today.
So you go to other strategies - maybe fishing on bad weather days when you have trouble seeing fish - but they can't see you either... The one thing you can control is your hookset for the few bites you get - and that's where I actually do a bit of coaching for my fly anglers... In short I try to have them not only strip strike every fish, but also have them keep the tip of their rod in the water pointing at the fly at all times right up to the hookset. If you do it right you have no slack at all -so your hookset is super efficient and if a fish even kisses your fly you get hooked up solid.
I'm not the first to use this way of hooking up but I can tell you it works on every fish you'll ever encounter....


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Dude, don't feel bad about that. Probably same day and same conditions (last Sat.). I lined one, getting a clear line between the fish and the sun and it spooked. Most of my shots were at 70-80ft and then I landed the fly right on top of their head both times and spooked both. Rookie moves but even an ole guy like me still get's jittery when the tail is wagging and waving at me. Gawd I love those moments! I deserved to be roasted by my buddy Steve for that! Needless to say, the next day he was on those same fish and caught a good one.

The boat will push fish who are a little spooky anyways. That's why longer shots are needed sometimes. But with long shots, come bigger splash downs. Not too good for spooky fish. Distance, with perfect placment in the directing of where the fish is facing, and a gentle fly presentation is key to more hookups. Like the boys here are saying, "Practice, practice, practice!"

What I don't want to see is you have one lunge at it or a follower and it eats and you either trout set it or have your rod tip up in the air and all that slacks causes you to pull the fly out of their mouth because you are not directly strip setting. Instead, when you work that fly, keep your rod tip down and touching the water, directly pointing at the fly (and not off to the side). When it eats, don't lift the rod to set the hook, but rather strip set it straight back while your rod tip is still down at the water level, using your stripping hand. That way, there will be no slack in the fly line and you will be able to slam that hook in with your stripping hand.

Makes sense?


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Sounds like a good day around here. I'd take a 6:1 ratio on shots:eats and be happy with it.

I've resorted to trying to get way ahead of a cruising fish. Manage the fly as he approaches to get a good intersection. But even then its a balance between getting too far ahead and pushing him with the boat before he finds the fly or casting too aggressively and spooking him directly.

I also see noone has asked what weight you are throwing and what leader construction.

In those spooky, skinny water situations you may be better off throwing small, unweighted flies on a 6wt.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Makes sense?


Definitely makes sense. That's good feedback. I typically do have my rod tip toward the fly, but usually not as low as the water surface. I'll work on that next time out. Thanks for the coaching!



crboggs said:


> I also see noone has asked what weight you are throwing and what leader construction.
> 
> In those spooky, skinny water situations you may be better off throwing small, unweighted flies on a 6wt.


Thanks, Chris. I hadn't thought much about that. I'm swinging an 8wt with a leader tapering to 18lb fluorocarbon. It's usually around 12-14 ft, total leader. I almost exclusively throw weighted flies, too.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

not2shabby said:


> I almost exclusively throw weighted flies, too.


You may not need a weighted fly in very shallow water...certainly nothing heavier than bead chain...


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## pete_paschall (May 8, 2009)

Here where I fish in NC, the water gets exceptionally clear this time of year and reds can get super spooky. Except for the days when they just don't care, but those days are few and far between. When that happens, the things that seem to make the most difference are (in no particular order):

Downsizing - I will go from an 8 weight to a 7 weight, and just got a 6 weight to use for this exact scenario. The flies get smaller as well.

Leading fish - I've watched fish spook from the fly line in the air. It hadn't even had a chance to splash down and make any noise. Figure out where they are likely to go, and get the fly out in front of them. They don't always cooperate though. "He fakes left and goes right - you can't stop him. You can only hope to contain him!"

Longer/lighter leader - I will scale down to a 12 lb tippet, and will lengthen the leader to as long as I can comfortably get a fly to turn over, usually 12 feet or so.

Fly selection - usually, I am all about the traditional redfish patterns. Shrimp, baitfish, crabs. But I have found that my flies for false albacore (glass minnow imitations) will catch fish when nothing else seems to work. I've watched this over and over, with fish rejecting fly after fly, then just devouring surf candies or alba-clousers like there's no tomorrow.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

crboggs said:


> You may not need a weighted fly in very shallow water...certainly nothing heavier than bead chain...


Feels like a double-edged sword. I throw heavy flies in shallow water because I mostly cast to fish that are already on the move, so my thinking is that I need the weight to get the fly down in front of a moving fish (even just a foot of water column). But the heavies certainly do limit my ability to present anything near what you might call delicate.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

If a fish is in a foot of water and won't hit an unweighted fly I don't want that skinny SOB. Let the games begin.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

lemaymiami said:


> So you go to other strategies - maybe fishing on bad weather days when you have trouble seeing fish - but they can't see you either... The one thing you can control is your hookset for the few bites you get - and that's where I actually do a bit of coaching for my fly anglers... In short I try to have them not only strip strike every fish, but also have them keep the tip of their rod in the water pointing at the fly at all times right up to the hookset. If you do it right you have no slack at all -so your hookset is super efficient and if a fish even kisses your fly you get hooked up solid.
> I'm not the first to use this way of hooking up but I can tell you it works on every fish you'll ever encounter....


LOL, I wrote my reply this morning and read your reply (posted before mine), just now this evening. Basically saying the same thing with the strip strike. Good! They all need to be told several times until they get it! LOL you know how that goes!

Back in the day, before the ultra skinny skiffs, we'd ease up as far as we could with the flats boat (being careful not to get too shallow on a falling tide), then slip out of the boat with some wading booties and painstakingly ease over to the area where we'd see them tail and either just wait it out or slowly stalk them.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

crboggs said:


> You may not need a weighted fly in very shallow water...certainly nothing heavier than bead chain...


In less than a foot (like last Saturday), I wouldn't want any weight, not even bead chain. I had plastic mono eyes instead of bead chain, on a small shrimp or crab pattern with your best weed guard possible.

Yeah going to a 6wt helps, which I didn't have with me. Makes for a lesser splash and stealthier presentation.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

not2shabby said:


> Feels like a double-edged sword. I throw heavy flies in shallow water because I mostly cast to fish that are already on the move, so my thinking is that I need the weight to get the fly down in front of a moving fish (even just a foot of water column). But the heavies certainly do limit my ability to present anything near what you might call delicate.


This is where at least 2 rods come in handy. Have the heavier on (say an 8wt) rigged with your heavier leader and weighted fly, for those deeper fish. Then have something like a 6 or 7wt loaded with lighter leader longer leader and something about the size of a bonefish fly. pete_paschell hit the nail on the head with something small and different, like small surf candies, rigged weedless. For me, it's bonefish flies, tied as small as a #4 or even a #6 hook. Next time out, I'll try both.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

pete_paschall said:


> Longer/lighter leader - I will scale down to a 12 lb tippet, and will lengthen the leader to as long as I can comfortably get a fly to turn over, usually 12 feet or so.
> 
> Fly selection - usually, I am all about the traditional redfish patterns. Shrimp, baitfish, crabs. But I have found that my flies for false albacore (glass minnow imitations) will catch fish when nothing else seems to work. I've watched this over and over, with fish rejecting fly after fly, then just devouring surf candies or alba-clousers like there's no tomorrow.


Great info, especially with the surf candy trick. I'll have to try that.

As far as long leaders goes, that's all good as long as someone has the ability to fully and completely unroll (unfurl) that leader out with the fly landing on the end of the tippet. I'd rather see someone throw a 9ft leader at them with the fly landing at the end of the leader, landing on-target, than a 12ft leader with the fly not making it to the end of the leader and tippet and landing in a pile of mess.


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## mluman83 (Jun 18, 2016)

I have no problems finding reds. I do however have problem finding the right reds. I can't tell you how many days I have been out, reds everywhere, won't eat, running hot, turn away from or run from presentations, etc. To me, its finding the "right" fish. Some of the flats that I fish have gotten busy in the last year or so with many airboats blowing the flat out on the regular. I feel that the resident fish have gotten skittish like never before. Other days, non resident fish show up on the flat and its ridiculous easy. I agree with downsizing. Especially in winter. All I throw is dime size crab patterns when it cools. Don't feel too bad, I have been skunked a lot with reds everywhere.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Where I fish most days the boat traffic is pretty constant and the Reds are like Jedi's. The can really feel / sense any disturbance in the force. Most fish know you are there before you see them. Some of the things that I do in an attempt at gaining an advantage are light rods and long leaders.

I almost exclusively fish a #6 rod and I do not use any of the lines that I hear discussed on this site. I instead choose a more traditional Trout presentation style or chalk stream style line. The newer lines with the heavy heads and 1/2 size larger tapers simply land too hard in most anglers hands. As for leaders my experimentation has me leaning way more towards longer than lighter leaders. 

I tell my clients all the time that you are throwing three things at the fish, Line, Leader and Fly. The fish should only see one. If they only see the fly the size of the line tied to it is not of great importance providing it does not interfere with the flies action.

When I have clients on the boat I always work on their casting skills and try to improve presentation above all else. All of us who spend time chasing fussy reds can gain a lot by taking some commonplace approaches from the trout stream.

The first one I work on is focusing on where you want your fly to land on the open water. Pick an imaginary spot 12 feet in the air above the spot and try to stop your line, leader and fly dead in the air above the spot. When the fly, leader and line land together at the same time you have your softest landing possible. Once you get the hang of this, a gentle draw back on the rod tip adds finesse and precise placement with 100% turnover every time.

The next 2 items I work on is developing both a forehand and backhand reach cast. These 2 casts allow you to cast accurately to a spot while laying your line on the water in a direction away from the target fish's sight window. Both of these casts when performed correctly also land the line, leader and fly at the same time, very softly.

Lastly I never stop preaching the same good advice already giver by others. Rod tip at waters level with rod angle paralleling waters surface. The contact is between your stripping hand and the fly, no slack. I tell my guests to stay down and on the strip until your line is dead straight and solid to the fish before moving up to fight the fish. Up too early is usually what puts a pulse of slack down the line and breaks your heart.

Ken


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

The only boat I have been in that I could consistently get close to tailing redfish without spooking them was when I used to fish from Kayaks. If possible I still prefer to get out of the boat and stalk them on foot.


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## mluman83 (Jun 18, 2016)

Steve_Mevers said:


> The only boat I have been in that I could consistently get close to tailing redfish without spooking them was when I used to fish from Kayaks. If possible I still prefer to get out of the boat and stalk them on foot.


I caught much more fish when I used this little 11 foot Whaler I had. I have noticed that my catch rate has gone down significantly in my 17 foot Mitzi. It is tough at times to get close enough to make a presentation without them seeing or feeling the boat. Fishing has been tough the past few years tho, the winters have been mild. My area used to be full of Jack and I haven't seen 1 school of Jack in the last 2 years.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Steve_Mevers said:


> If possible I still prefer to get out of the boat and stalk them on foot.


I've been finding myself getting out of the canoe more and more myself...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Over the past 4 years or so I have noticed fish are much more spooky more often than they used to be. It’s got to directly correlate to increased boat traffic and fishing pressure. Most of the areas I still fish now had very little boat traffic other than during duck season. We had reds and trout eating lures 5 feet off the rod tip and many times you could screw up a cast, the fish would shoot off and many times would eat on a follow up cast. This entire year has been much tougher than before. Right now the upper slot reds are almost no existent on the flats and there are mostly rat reds and lower slots everywhere. We did just have a major hurricane hit but the trout fishing has been off the charts awesome. Maybe the larger redfish got relocated out to the deeper areas around the gulf passes. My buddies are stroking upper slots and bulls out there every day since after Harvey hit.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

crboggs said:


> I've been finding myself getting out of the canoe more and more myself...


I forget wadefishing is not very common practice over there. We wade all the time here.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

I ran into the same issue the weekend before last. There wasn't much pressure where I was fishing so that wasn't it. I think I'm going to attribute it to the gin clear waters where we normally have a tannin or tea stained water. The water I was fishing that day was so clear I could have dove for pennies in 3ft of water on a muddy bottom. Our normal water clarity on the upper TX coast is about 1 ft of visibility so having 3ft of gin clear water probably made my fish more skittish. I know for a fact that one of my fish saw the shadow of the flyline and bolted. Some of my shots all I had to do was pick up the rod tip and the fish were bolting for cover. All the fish I saw were glued to the bottom or moving quickly. None were tailing or happy. I fished 3 flies all day and had more looks at the small/sparse bonefish fly I decided to try as a last ditch effort.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Over the past 4 years or so I have noticed fish are much more spooky more often than they used to be. It’s got to directly correlate to increased boat traffic and fishing pressure. Most of the areas I still fish now had very little boat traffic other than during duck season. We had reds and trout eating lures 5 feet off the rod tip and many times you could screw up a cast, the fish would shoot off and many times would eat on a follow up cast. This entire year has been much tougher than before. Right now the upper slot reds are almost no existent on the flats and there are mostly rat reds and lower slots everywhere. We did just have a major hurricane hit but the trout fishing has been off the charts awesome. Maybe the larger redfish got relocated out to the deeper areas around the gulf passes. My buddies are stroking upper slots and bulls out there every day since after Harvey hit.


Fished a few weeks ago and ran into a large school of bulls with jacks in about 8ft of water. My theory is that with all the bait and fish migrating to the gulf those bulls are staging where the bait is moving from the bays and into the passes. For example East Bay has two entrances, the ship channel and rollover. All the bait and fish that move from the bays to the gulf this time of year can only go one of two ways. Plus with wind this time of year and lower tides I don't think those bulls can safely get to the flats I am fishing, but it may be different for you.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

GullsGoneWild said:


> I ran into the same issue the weekend before last. There wasn't much pressure where I was fishing so that wasn't it. I think I'm going to attribute it to the gin clear waters where we normally have a tannin or tea stained water. The water I was fishing that day was so clear I could have dove for pennies in 3ft of water on a muddy bottom. Our normal water clarity on the upper TX coast is about 1 ft of visibility so having 3ft of gin clear water probably made my fish more skittish. I know for a fact that one of my fish saw the shadow of the flyline and bolted. Some of my shots all I had to do was pick up the rod tip and the fish were bolting for cover. All the fish I saw were glued to the bottom or moving quickly. None were tailing or happy. I fished 3 flies all day and had more looks at the small/sparse bonefish fly I decided to try as a last ditch effort.


You are definitely right about the gin clear water BUT you can’t discount that those fish or that area had not been blown up the day before or before you got there. Many occasions I have been poling an area and catching almost every fish I cast at and had a few chevos run down the shorelines and as I made my way around the fish completely changed their attitude and were not having anything to do with my presence much less my presentation. 
I know for a fact that the Monday after Thanksgiving weekend Stevie and I were in the same areas on different boats and both noted terribly spooky fish all over. The 3-4 days before that I know the boat traffic was off the charts due to it being a holiday weekend and I know fish can act crazy even a day or two after it settles down. These are different times than they were even a year or two ago. Exponentially more people on the water and a lot more poling skiffs in areas that I rarely saw any just a few years ago. When the number of people on the water grows and the bodies of water stay the same size it’s kind of inevitable what’s happening.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

GullsGoneWild said:


> Fished a few weeks ago and ran into a large school of bulls with jacks in about 8ft of water. My theory is that with all the bait and fish migrating to the gulf those bulls are staging where the bait is moving from the bays and into the passes. For example East Bay has two entrances, the ship channel and rollover. All the bait and fish that move from the bays to the gulf this time of year can only go one of two ways. Plus with wind this time of year and lower tides I don't think those bulls can safely get to the flats I am fishing, but it may be different for you.


I concur, it happens every year, I just didn’t think about it until you mentioned it. Once the shrimp and small baitfish thin out of the bays the winter pattern will be in full effect and the bigger reds will move back to the shorelines and back lakes. I’ve had some of our heaviest slot and over slot reds sight cast over mud flats and shell laden shorelines in late January through February.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Lots of good advice. To echo a few key ones....

I match the tactics to the environment and body movement of the fish. Slower fish, slower strips. Calm water, longer leaders. Ultra spooky fish, smaller, lighter flies.

Two rejects on a fly and I change. It rarely gets a third chance. I will also go unweighted, which is one thing I didn't see that changed. Bead chain will splash. Also, I see 18lb tippet was used. I would have stepped down the 12lb, a 12' leader, and a lightweight fly. Seaducers land super quiet and can slowly sink. Redfish will eat upwards, so it doesn't have to be directly in front of them below the surface.

You can also lead the fish by a good amount, pull the line tight and then wait. Once the fish gets within a foot, twitch the fly slowly then start stripping based on the fishes body action. The fish can think they surprised something and got the jump on it, so it is an easy meal.

Lastly, stealth is important. Longer casts and poling as slow as possible all help.

I've had reds I've had to fish like super spooky permit. I have done all of the above and turned those spooky fish into hookups. Super slow strips, fly placement right on the nose and with barely a strip. Spoon fed fish.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

+1 to scaling down on leader # and rod size.

longer casting helps but need to be able to do it w/o causing a ton of commotion. some ppl really rock the boat when they start casting 60ft+ which i think is going to end up worse than taking chances poling closer and making a calmer shot


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

pete_paschall said:


> But I have found that my flies for false albacore (glass minnow imitations) will catch fish when nothing else seems to work. I've watched this over and over, with fish rejecting fly after fly, then just devouring surf candies or alba-clousers like there's no tomorrow.


I find this extremely interesting. So interesting I tied up a couple small surf candy things to try on the low tide (new moon) here in Tampa next weekend. The last low tide (full moon) I went out and had at least a dozen great shots with only one follow (traditional redfish patterns). Saw around a 100 fish. Less spooky than usual but total lock jaw. If I come tight on a red with one of these glass minnow flies, my brain is going to explode.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

@Pierson I saw tails last weekend as well...on the same tide...

I'm tying up some seaducers and foxtrot mullet before next weekend's lows. Will be throwing long and light for sure...


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

How many false cast is it taking you to get your fly in the water? Are you unintentionally rocking the boat ?( I'm guilty of that one sometimes). How close are you trying to place the fly? How quickly are you stripping your line? 
In these situations I will also place my false cast further off to the side of where I intend on placing my fly to avoid spooking fish. I will also measure my cast off to the side before I change the path on my last forward cast to place the fly.

When sight fishing for big trout or reds in clear water I will lead them by 20-30 ft if they are cruising, slowly get my fly in line with their path and let it sit for the 30+ seconds it takes them to get there completely still. In my experience if your fly is moving toward the fish to intercept and they see it they will spook. If you are in the right spot ahead of time and starting to move away from the fish they go into predator mode. Of course they change direction sometimes but if you are still, silent and aren't casting a shadow they will often times continue their direction.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

If they are tailing in gin clear water down size to a 6 wt, longer leader with fluro tippet, #4 hook, and no weight. Seaducer's as mentioned before land extremely soft. Just keep the fly small and leave all the flashy and bright colored Mardi Gras material at home.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

View media item 1366


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

A few have commented on rocking the boat and the noise and pressure waves this action puts forth,

This is something I have to deal with every day and it constantly changes with different clients casting styles. The issue originates with the transfer of weight on the forward to back cast and it varies due to many variables. Weight, Style and balance are a few. 

A few things that I do to combat this are # 1 - Suggest that the caster bend their waist just a bit to the forward. Even an angle change of just a few degrees will greatly change the amount of weight that plants to the rear, creating the rock. Many times this will do the trick.

In the event that you have a real rocker, my solution is to get the caster down from the platform and fish from the deck. A non issue if you don't have one.

I then have the caster move their entire body to the side they they are casting to. Their front foot needs to be very close to the edge. (not a big deal on the flats). This will accomplish 2 things. First the weight transfer will fall onto the center line of the boat which is difficult to move. Second the side towards the fish will never rise above the waterline. If any pressure wave at all is created it will move away from the target and leave the fish's area with no disturbance. 

Additionally if I am guiding 2 anglers and we have time to set up, I will always ask the non casting angler to move their ass to just past the boats centerline towards the fish. This helps seat the side deeper and also put the non casters head in the game. Sight fishing with 2 clients is always a team effort.

Lastly when the water is like glass I will firmly plant the pole to the opposite side of the caster to try to pin the boat in place. A bit more pressure on the pole during the casters back stroke should remove most of the rock.

Ken


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Over the past 4 years or so I have noticed fish are much more spooky more often than they used to be. It’s got to directly correlate to increased boat traffic and fishing pressure. Most of the areas I still fish now had very little boat traffic other than during duck season. We had reds and trout eating lures 5 feet off the rod tip and many times you could screw up a cast, the fish would shoot off and many times would eat on a follow up cast. This entire year has been much tougher than before. Right now the upper slot reds are almost no existent on the flats and there are mostly rat reds and lower slots everywhere. We did just have a major hurricane hit but the trout fishing has been off the charts awesome. Maybe the larger redfish got relocated out to the deeper areas around the gulf passes. My buddies are stroking upper slots and bulls out there every day since after Harvey hit.


You should try south west Florida sight fishing they see you a football field away or maybe it's the line of bay boats with 300 hps or jetskis that constantly run them over. I blame it on overpopulation of our waterways.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

crboggs said:


> View media item 1366


That pattern is like 18yrs old and has been used and abused here in TB. I'd be surprized if it does anything.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Backcountry 16 said:


> You should try south west Florida sight fishing they see you a football field away or maybe it's the line of bay boats with 300 hps or jetskis that constantly run them over. I blame it on overpopulation of our waterways.


I'm vowing to wear my new shirt from United Fly to ward them off of me!


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Backwater said:


> I'm vowing to wear my new shirt from United Fly to ward them off of me!


10 4 on that Ted


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ken T said:


> A few have commented on rocking the boat and the noise and pressure waves this action puts forth,
> 
> This is something I have to deal with every day and it constantly changes with different clients casting styles. The issue originates with the transfer of weight on the forward to back cast and it varies due to many variables. Weight, Style and balance are a few.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Lefty Krey cast are great, but not in super skinny water on a skiff, where you are using body english and move your weight back and forth, which in turns, rocks the boat. An ole fly casting master many years ago taught me to square your body up to the fish you are casting at, then square your feet up to your shoulders, slightly bend your knees and do more of an over head shot, to avoid rocking the boat. Of course, when you actually see the fish, amnisia kicks in and all bets are off!


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Backwater said:


> That pattern is like 18yrs old and has been used and abused here in TB. I'd be surprized if it does anything.


Challenge accepted.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Wowzers.

80:1 today. At least. Might have been 100:1. Fish literally everywhere. Lockjaw.

And had a totally awesome time. What a beautiful day!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

not2shabby said:


> Efffffffff.
> 
> 80:1 today. At least. Might have been 100:1. Fish everywhere. Lockjaw.
> 
> And had a totally awesome time. What a beautiful day!


Look at this perspective - How many people viewing this thread can say they saw 80+ reds and had some good shots at them today and actually landed one? Not many mah friend! Sometimes it's how you view your circumstances. 

For me, today it was just too cold and windy for myself to consider getting out of the house and out there! Then on the flip side, the other day I was out with Ken T in a place that has normally produced some good reds in the past for me. Weather was great and mullet were everywhere and not a red to be found. I actually never had to climb up on the poling platform either all day, but still zeroed out the entire day (worst, I caught a hard head catfish! Lol). Still, out with a friend on a beautiful day, so life is still good! 










Ted


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Still, out with a good friend on a beautiful day, so life is still good!


Absolutely agree. Can’t be all about the catching. It was a spectacular day and I practiced a lot of the techniques y’all have graciously shared. I just love being out there.

Also got to see the biggest trout I’ve ever seen in the water sitting up on the sand trying to get warm. Absolute monster. What a sight.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Can't tell you how many days I've judged based on "shots" rather than fish "caught". 

Also saw a big trout the other day...big enough that it was pushing a wake in shallow water. First time I've seen that.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Reds were eating today! Pre-front was on fire.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Reds were eating today! Pre-front was on fire.


I hear the Trout were too.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

My first were pretty lit up yesterday and actually acted like redfish who wanted to eat. They are normally on the very spooky end of things using small flies and 10-12lb fluro. Interesting enough every fish we caught had the fly lodged in the crushers instead of the lip like standard.


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## BobGee (Apr 10, 2019)

Ken T said:


> Where I fish most days the boat traffic is pretty constant and the Reds are like Jedi's. The can really feel / sense any disturbance in the force. Most fish know you are there before you see them. Some of the things that I do in an attempt at gaining an advantage are light rods and long leaders.
> 
> I almost exclusively fish a #6 rod and I do not use any of the lines that I hear discussed on this site. I instead choose a more traditional Trout presentation style or chalk stream style line. The newer lines with the heavy heads and 1/2 size larger tapers simply land too hard in most anglers hands. As for leaders my experimentation has me leaning way more towards longer than lighter leaders.
> 
> ...


I lived and fished in Montana and Colorado for 25 years before I moved to Florida. Yup That’s how we did it. Great to hear it works on redfish too.


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## Sethsawyer (Apr 5, 2019)

Pole slower. The boat pushes water and spooks fish
Cast bendbacks or beadchain flies. They land lighter.
Drop to a 6wt with a longer leader. 
My hookup/catch ratio is usually better with small (size 4ish) sharp hooks

Or just get out on a day with a little more wind to give you some cover.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

FWIW: My routine is three rods rigged; a 5 or 6 (depending on wind) with a weightless fly (often a bendback), a 6 or 7 with a light beadchain fly, and an 8 with a heavier fly. I use 12# tippets, 10’ to 11’ leaders, and I can quickly switch rods/flies as conditions change. Some days I can do no right, and some days I can do no wrong. Some days it’s both.... 

Depending on conditions I may add a gurgler to the mix, and on calm days if the water temp is not hot I may add the 2, or even the half weight, to the mix. If I’m in the skiff with another angler I generally spend more time poling than casting. For some reason with bendbacks I am hot or cold; I either land everything or everything falls off the hook; I can’t find a middle ground.


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