# What are some skiffs/micro skiffs that are the most capable in rougher water?



## 1gunner (Dec 29, 2014)

Hey guys, I'm a newbie to skinny water boats. Been following the forum for a while now. I'm getting back into both hunting and fishing after a few years off. I've always had larger center consoles for offshore use but other than a aluminum dedicated duck rig I had in college this will be my first experience with a sub-20' boat. 

I'm looking for a year round blast n cast rig for the Florida panhandle. I will be spending a lot of time in and around a very large bay sometimes in protected areas but often having to traverse open areas which can get a bit rough. They're will also be occasions where I want to set up in open water for divers, weather permitting of course.

I'm interested in something in the 16-18 range with ride and stability being the primary concerns. I usually hunt with another buddy and a dog. I plan on painting the hull olive drab with the interior deck and console being tan. I had originally planned on a welded MV jon but have never liked the looks, ride or heat retention of the aluminum boats as much as the glass boats. 

One boat that has peaked my interest is the Salt Marsh Skiff 16 though I'm a bit concerned about its ability to handle a chop with such a conservative v-entry and bottom? Another is the Ankona SUV. I'm just wondering if there is enough freeboard here for rougher water? Also thought about a smallish traditional flats boat like a used Redfisher 16 but I do like the idea of keeping power to 70HP or less for economical reasons.  I'm definitely not knocking any of these rigs, I just don't have enough experience to know exactly what I'm looking for. Budget is an issue. I would prefer to stay in the 20k or less range (new or used) which rules out some of the higher end stuff like the Beavertails or ECC Vantages which I really otherwise like.

Any thoughts here on this? I'm totally open to any ideas you guys may have. Sorry for the long post!

Thanks!


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## Edfish (Jan 4, 2013)

It seems that it's hard to build a fiberglass hull with the shape/weight to excel at ride _and _stability while being powered with <70hp, primarily because physics. 

Two of the boats that seem to receive a lot of praise for capabilities in open waters are Hobie Power Skiffs and Pangas. Hobies aren't made anymore, Sabalo boats makes a skiff allegedly from the HPS mold. Panga Marine and Mojito make 18' and 16' skiffs respectively employing the panga hull design that can be powered <70.

Here are some other non-flats boats that are advertised for rough water capabilities and lower horsepower that I thought of when I was looking: 
-V-front aluminum boats like Lund Alaskan, Starcraft Freedom, or G3 177 outfitter.
- Privateer 16' bay boat
- Twin Vee 17 classic

Hopefully others can add more experienced opinions about the capabilities of more traditional flats boats.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

^ above post basically nailed it
the hobies are cool because they can be had for super cheap and are extremely well built, very efficient on small (70or less hp) and since had cheap theres no pain in modifying one to whatever you like. I was 22miles out last thursday morning in mine catching blackfin tuna in my hobie. Other pluses to the hobie is it rides well, very stable for its beam, self bailing and actually purpose built for rough water


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## Tommysmicroskiff (Jan 19, 2012)

http://mojitoboats.com/index.php?pageID=12130

Looks like they are very capable boats !



Too much Koolaide being drank around here !

keep your eyes OPEN ... avoid Hype !!! Costs and yetis are HIGHLY over rated !!!! Do your home work ...


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Towee boats can handle open water with their hull design. They have been used for hunting, river fishing and flats fishing. Draws 4" loaded

PM me if you want

www.toweeboats.com


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## Tommysmicroskiff (Jan 19, 2012)

missed an e 

looks good ! NO Koolade ...

http://toweemarine.com/index.html


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## spottail1588 (Feb 17, 2013)

I may be wrong but that towee looks as capable in open water as a gheenoe


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Yea the towee is a nice skiff but if you guys look at that and think "rough water capable", sorry you dont have a whole lot of boat design knowledge or experience


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

There is only one boat that will do all you require.  You need a pre-1972 Aquasport 19.1.  Good luck finding one but if you do please don't paint it olive drab.  Your second best choice would be a Seaark 1860 MV, lots easier to find, handles chop well, runs shallow, it comes in olive drab, but it is aluminum.

IMHO, 16' is too small for two men, their gear and a dog.

Edit: I found an Aquasport 19.1. Re-engine and restore for a LOT less than $20 k and you'll have an amazing classic.
http://panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/4813951257.html


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

You need two boats my friend.  
If you buy one that can do everything you listed it will be a little too uncomfortable in open water and slightly too heavy to pole. It will end up staying in the driveway because its cant really do anything well.  

I'd suggest an 18-20' V hull center console and a small skiff / Fiberglass jon boat.    

The cheapest would be to restore an old Aquasport or Proline as someone mentioned above. http://classicaquasport.com/smf/ Get an NMZ or small poling skiff for duck hunting and fishing the back country.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> missed an e
> 
> looks good ! NO Koolade ...
> 
> http://toweemarine.com/index.html


So I am a little dislecsic :


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

the last thing you want on big rough water with a load of decoys a dog and a couple guys is a flats boat. I liked an earlier suggestion of a Lund Alaskan. If you can find one from 01 and older they have a shallow v and can run pretty shallow. I own a Panga and an alaskan. The panga is great but narrow which is not great for hunting.

One boat you should check out is High Tide. They are made in s. Carolina and have a strong following with hunters and fisherman there. They are utility boat and are often camo from the factory.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I agree with the comments about having two boats. That's why I chose two over one - it allows me to fish two different types of water.

However, the recommendation on the Panga marine boat is a good one. I saw one in person here on the Texas coast and was impressed with them. The owner talked very highly of them, but agreed it was much better for stalking tarpon than being skinny in the marsh for reds. If I didn't have my Kenner, I'd seriously consider one or something similar.


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## nmcphail (Jul 17, 2009)

> I'm looking for a year round blast n cast rig for the Florida panhandle. I will be spending a lot of time in and around a very large bay sometimes in protected areas but often having to traverse open areas which can get a bit rough. They're will also be occasions where I want to set up in open water for divers, weather permitting of course.
> 
> I'm interested in something in the 16-18 range with ride and stability being the primary concerns. I usually hunt with another buddy and a dog. I plan on painting the hull olive drab with the interior deck and console being tan. I had originally planned on a welded MV jon but have never liked the looks, ride or heat retention of the aluminum boats as much as the glass boats.


Just a few things to think about that have large factors on your decision: are you going to hunt out of the boat, or on land, or smaller layout boats; are you going to poll all day fishing or run the TM, or anchor at your favorite spot?

My point is that there's a lot of variables involved and multiple ways to skin the (cast/blast) cat all depending on how you like to hunt/fish.

In my opinion, it's tough to beat the 16'-18' welded modV. Powered with a 50-70hp they move out and are very versatile. They can be had in 3-6+ degree bottoms, so you could even pick one that was more seaworthy than another depending on your preference.

Lastly, lots can be done about heat retention such as hydroturf, seadeck or grizzly grip.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> Yea the towee is a nice skiff but if you guys look at that and think "rough water capable", sorry you dont have a whole lot of boat design knowledge or experience


It has reverse chines pointy v type bow (I don't know the present of dead rise). But what I have seen it looks like a dry ride
Now what does that mean... In 5 ft. Seas, NO

but 1' chop yes. My buddies Lostman is a wet ride with no chines and not much v in the hull


My boat has chines and a V hull. I have pictures of it going thru 3' chop and white caps and we were very dry at 30 mph. I have never designed a boat but I know what you need to have to keep dry


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Sorry Permit, but no way is a towee going to be a dry or smooth ride in a 1' chop. Just having a pointy bow doesn't guarantee that, and I believe it has variable dead rise not an actual reverse chine design. It's basically a similar design to a gheenoe/riverhawk, which will pound and soak you in a ripple. It's a pretty bad choice for crossing open water IMO.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I Don't care about all the Hype !

NO GHEENOE IS A DRY RIDE !!! in a chop !!! 

Don't get me wrong they have their place and I LOVE mine ... but I ran an LT 25 and it was still WET ! Not as wet as my Classic but still got Soaked ...


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## 1gunner (Dec 29, 2014)

What about the 16' Salt Marsh? Looks to be designed much like a 1654ish welded jon.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

My kidneys hurt just thinking about running any sort of chop in a salt marsh.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

> What about the 16' Salt Marsh? Looks to be designed much like a 1654ish welded jon.


That Salt Marsh looks a lot like the Pathfinder 17T, without the tunnel.  The 17T was the wettest, roughest riding skiff I ever had the pleasure to own.  

You owe yourself a ride in a Seaark 1860 or 1872.  If you're worried about heat, put down SeaDek or Hydroturf.  Like this:


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Aluminum boats are great in a river but on a flat it can be noisy


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## Edfish (Jan 4, 2013)

> Sorry Permit, but no way is a towee going to be a dry or smooth ride in a 1' chop. Just having a pointy bow doesn't guarantee that, and I believe it has variable dead rise not an actual reverse chine design. It's basically a similar design to a gheenoe/riverhawk, which will pound and soak you in a ripple. It's a pretty bad choice for crossing open water IMO.


I own a Towee Rivermaster and fish is 1-2 times/week from Steinhatchee to Chassahowitzka, FL.  I judge it to be very dry and relatively smooth ride in 12" chop (trough to crest) when slowing down appropriately (15-20 mph, not max at 27).  By "very dry" I mean water will not get in the boat, with the exception of a little spray (aft, not bow) when quartering in a strong (~15kt) headwind.  By "relatively smooth" I mean I can feel "bumps" in the described conditions, but there is no pounding.  For comparison, I have found it less smooth than a 1620 Actioncraft, more smooth than a 1652 SeaArk, and not comparable at all to 15'4" Gheenoe highsider.  I am not knowledgeable enough to describe with confidence what aspects of the hull design are responsible for this, but seen in person a Towee does not much resemble a Riverhawk or Gheenoe. Of course, I have zero boat design experience...

That said, the OP mentioned interest in diving on good weather days.  I think a Towee is fine for crossing inshore, shallow water chop with winds around 10kts and will excel at shallow water fishing and hunting, but I think it would be a poor choice for multiple people and gear diving nearshore, even in dead-calm conditions.   I agree with the others posting here that a Hobie, Panga, or even larger SeaArk would be preferable.  I think about these boats in terms of how they will handle when something goes wrong (storm, etc.), and the self-bailing nature of Hobies and Pangas (an option with Panga Marine) is pretty nice.  But I also think these boats are still compromises (stability/stealth/ride, etc.).  If the OP really wants to excel at both inshore fishing/hunting and nearshore fishing/diving, two boats are probably needed.  If the OP will settle for being competent but not excellent at both, a Panga, Hobie or larger welded aluminum boat seems o.k..  And those Pro Sports/Aqua Sports flatbacks look awesome and are quite popular around Suwannee FL.

Another option would be a heavier duty welded aluminum boat.  I think Scandy White in Blountstown, FL makes great boats and the heavy gauge (3/16") aluminum gives the weight for a smoother ride and is much quieter than the smaller aluminum boats I've owned.  A 70hp will push an 18' MV.


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## tj14 (Sep 8, 2013)

I've owned a SaltMarsh 14 for 8 months now.  The SM14 and 16 are meant to be a direct replacement for a good quality welded jon, without the heat & noise of aluminum.
Is has a heavy kevlar laminate so it will hold up to the rough treatment.  It has a full MV bottom with the V running all the way to the stern (most MV jons are flat bottom at the stern) so they ride better in a chop than most other MV jons and certainly any pathfinder T.  The 16 has a narrow bow entry than most, so again, it rides better than most in a chop.  I've had my 14 out in 15 knots and I'm fine, over that and I'm slowing down.  The 16 is super stable so great for diving and hunting.  I'd also mention that it poles great, tracks and spins correctly but has hull slap when poling directly into a chop.   Self bailing and tunnels are options.  So if looking at the 16' range with 40-60 hp, its tough to beat.  As far as mine, I bought the 14 as a temporary boat until I can save up and buy my "dream skiff".  After owning it, I can't imagine selling it even when I get the larger dream skiff.  Just my experience.


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## greyghost61us (Dec 8, 2014)

I have a 1984 Dolphin Backcountry 16 with a 98 Evinrude 115 on it.  It will really move and handles most everything the panhandle bays throw at it.  It handles 2ft chop real good, rather smooth and dry unless the wind catches the spray.  My home waters are St. Andrews Bay (Panama City Bch.) and there has not been a day that I wanted to go fishing that I couldn't sometimes had to pick a different ramp due to waves, but got on the water and fished anywhere on the system.  As for price, I see them for sale from time to time in the 5k to 8k range.  If you look around they are out there.  It also poles easy and can get shallow for a boat from that time frame.  The newer Dolphins get shallower but they also cost a good bit more. If you are in the PCB area and I am in town you can check mine out, but it ain't for sale.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

What qualifies as rough water?
To a flat bottom micro, an 8 inch chop will rattle your teeth at speed.
If wave height equals bow height, say 16 to 18 inches, you're going to get wet,
and get pounded till you hurt. A 2 foot chop will force you to slow down,
usually to displacement speeds to maintain control. The reason is the weight of water.
The bigger the chop the more mass involved, the more impact created.
To limit the slamming, speed must be reduced. Rough water capable means
the hull needs to be self bailing, foam filled, and at least a modified vee.
Otherwise there's a good probability the hull will suffer oil-canning
and end up with fractured stringers and hull cracks.


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## joebucko (Dec 29, 2012)

Take a look at the Mako Pro17 Skiff. Introduced in late 2011. Very simple boat, max HP is a 60 Mercury 4 stroke. I have one and it takes chop extremely well while delivering a very dry ride. Unique hull design (cat like) gives it great stability. Max speed is going to be around 36mph depending on load. New ones are priced well below $20K. Also seeing used ones coming on the market all the time.


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## Reed_Austin (Jan 24, 2014)

So many thoughtful suggestions. Some problems are more fun than others to sort through. Good luck.

My $.02 goes to ditto about the Lunds (either Alaskans 16' - 20' or WC 16). I have no practical experience with any other the other specific models mentioned. I have a WC 14 with a Suzuki 20, and it is an absolute beast. I drift skinny for stripers at Monomoy, plug for stripers outside on Buzzards Bay, and hunt ducks all winter in oh-my-god conditions. I have two friends with Alaskan 16's and they do everything I do X2. Something not to overlook about aluminum is it doesn't care about barnacles, mussel (oyster) beds or rocks (within reason), and you can get Lunds factory painted marsh brown. I also believe you could come in well under your price point. I can send pix of my simple set-up if you wish.


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