# 16' Chalmette Build



## eagle24

I'm new here and am building my first skiff. I have built a wood dory/drift boat for floating rivers and streams, but this is my first skiff. I thought I would post pictures of the build as I go so that (hopefully) I will get some advice and input from folks here more knowledgeable about boat building and skiffs.

The plans I chose are the 14' Chalmette Microskiff from Spira International. I am scaling up the frames 5% and adding a frame on the same spacing to the portion of the hull that is straight. My scaling will result in a 15' 9-1/2" length with max beam 44". You will have to excuse the squirrel dogs that will photo bomb the pictures throughout the build. They are excited we are building another boat.

Day 1 resulted in 5 frames built and the transom glued up. The transom is constructed with butt joints, so I doweled all the joint connections between the pieces. The skiff has a 3" tunnel in the stern portion of the hull.







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## eagle24

I worked about an hour last night and scarfed the chine logs and sheer clamps. This afternoon I worked a few hours. Got the strongback jig built and got 4 frames attached to the keelson. The aft end of the keelson starts at frame 2 instead of at the transom due to the tunnel. Tomorrow afternoon, I hope to get the transom, frame 1, the chine logs and sheer clamps fitted. I'll do all the squaring and leveling when I attach the chine logs and sheer clamps, then I can glue all the joints.


----------



## eagle24

A few more hours this afternoon.


----------



## tomahawk

Looks good.


----------



## trekker

Nice. Will be following.


----------



## CurtisWright

Sweet. This is microskiff. Doing more with less.

BTW, this will probably get moved to the bragging section by one of the Admin's.


----------



## eagle24

It has been really cold the last 2 days and I had to watch the ballgame last night, so I haven't done any work. But......I did manage to pick up this beauty for $45. Against my better judgement I am posting this pic. Please don't flood me with messages wanting to buy it. Not For Sale


----------



## eagle24

Finally got to do a little work this afternoon. I could have done more, but got up and went fishing this morning. Not much to show, but here are a few pics anyway.

Got everything aligned and the joints glued.


Normally I would have scarfed the chine logs, but this boat is straight from the transom through 5 frames so I decided a 45 joint at the 3rd frame would be fine.


Worked on the trailer a little too. Stripped everything away except the frame and axle. New tires and wheels. I'll weld on a new tongue and coupler, new fenders, a new winch, and weld up some brackets for new bunks. Then it will be ready for sandblasting. $152 in the trailer so far.


----------



## WC53

Thanks for the update.  I have been looking at doing a stretched FS13 and had not seen these plans. I am interested to see if the weight comes in lighter than advertised, as the draft has to be a few inches. Are you thinking the option for two people or just more room for solo?


----------



## eagle24

WC53 said:


> Thanks for the update.  I have been looking at doing a stretched FS13 and had not seen these plans. I am interested to see if the weight comes in lighter than advertised, as the draft has to be a few inches. Are you thinking the option for two people or just more room for solo?


I really was just after more stability, but wanted to build a 16' skiff. I'm putting a partial sole and a full deck with cockpit on this one, so I'm thinking I will be 250 - 300 lbs. Probably not going to give you the info you are looking for. I fish alone most of the time and really wasn't thinking about 2 people often. I'll definitely post some video to show the stability and see what she drafts when I get her built. Probably won't decide on the motor size until I have a feel for the finished weight. Probably a 9.9 or 15 hp 4-stroke.


----------



## eagle24

Not much progress tonight. Got the last 3 frames temporarily attached to the keelson. I'll fit them with the wood rasp tomorrow to get them aligned, cut the notches for the chine and sheer, and epoxy the joints.


----------



## eagle24

I need some advice on the transom. There is absolutely no detail on building up the transom other than the framing and a plywood gusset. I will try and keep this skiff as light as possible and will be hanging a 15hp 4-stroke on the transom. I need advice for the lightest transom build up that will offer plenty of strength. Also, advice on tying the transom in to the boat for strength. I assume some fiberglass tabs or corners would be the way to go along with spanning around the corners with the exterior fiberglass. Thanks!

Greg


----------



## tomahawk

The transom on my skiff is 1/2" meranti with two 1/2" clamping boards all laminated together for a total of 1 1/2" where the motor mounts. Its tabbed in with 12 oz biax tape then completely glassed over with 12 oz biax. Its kind of hard to see in the pic, but the clamping board extends about 1 1/2" below the cleat that the deck rests on. 
Of course you could also do the entire transom @ 1.5". I built mine to the plans though.


----------



## tomahawk

This pic shows it a little better.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Mine is the same as Tomahawk; 1/2" ply on the bottom half and 1.5" laminated ply on top. It is solid.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

tomahawk said:


> The transom on my skiff is 1/2" meranti with two 1/2" clamping boards all laminated together for a total of 1 1/2" where the motor mounts. Its tabbed in with 12 oz biax tape then completely glassed over with 12 oz biax. Its kind of hard to see in the pic, but the clamping board extends about 1 1/2" below the cleat that the deck rests on.
> Of course you could also do the entire transom @ 1.5". I built mine to the plans though.


Per the plans, mine is framed from 1x lumber, so the transom frame is 3/4" thick. Pics above. The plan shows 1/2" plywood on the inside where the motor clamps and I assume on the outside 1/4" plywood. The 1/2" ply does not cover the entire transom on the inside, just the upper portion of the 1x12 in the transom. It extends outside the 1x12 to form a gusset on each side. 1/2" on the inside, 3/4" in middle, 1/4" on outside would be 1-1/2" where the motor clamps. Think that is strong enough? I thought about sheeting the entire transom frame on both sides with 3/8" which would also be 1-1/2" total thickness, but that may be adding unnecessary weight.


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> Mine is the same as Tomahawk; 1/2" ply on the bottom half and 1.5" laminated ply on top. It is solid.
> 
> Nate


Take a look above at how the transom is framed Nate. The outside of the skiff is all 1/4" and the plan calls for 1/2" on inside, just where the motor clamps.


----------



## tomahawk

1.5" is good for these small, low hp skiffs. You are also going to add some thickness with glass and fairing.


----------



## eagle24

Chine logs not wanting to make the bend. I may have to do a laminated chine log.


----------



## yobata

Steam may be helpful to bend wood. You can make a steam "oven" with pvc pipe and a hot humidifier.


----------



## jonrconner

To get the log to go through the bend you can kerf it at 90 degrees every two or three inches, if it's 3/4" make a 1/2" kerf, then when it's bent, fill the kerfs with epoxy wood dough mix.
JC


----------



## eagle24

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I made tighter bends on the last boat I built, but the temp was near 100 deg when I was building it. It's around 50 deg in my shop and it's unbelievable how much difference that makes. I've considered steam, but it looks like a lot of additional work. I might give the kerfs a try. nothing to lose if they don't work. I know if it comes down to it, laminating 1/4" strips will work and make a stronger chine log anyway. I'll be happy when this frame is done and ready for plywood. All the tedious alignment chores will be over.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

eagle24 said:


> Take a look above at how the transom is framed Nate. The outside of the skiff is all 1/4" and the plan calls for 1/2" on inside, just where the motor clamps.


That seems really light. That hull is rated for 10 hp at 14', but as you are thinking of a 15 hp because you stretched it to 16', you might want to beef it up a bit. Most of the torque on the transom comes from hauling it down the road with the motor on the transom. The additional weight of a bigger motor might tear it up. 15 hp motors are marketed as "portable", but I'll bet you'll end up bolting it on and leaving it there.

Tomahawk built to a Bateau.com plan and I extrapolated from a Bateau.com plan, so it is no surprise we did the same thing. The hull I extrapolated (D15) was rated to 25 hp. I haul a 200# motor clamped on my transom at all times because it is too heavy to remove. I still inspect the fillets after every time I haul it because I can't believe I am not tearing it up, but it has held up so far.

Regarding severe bends, steaming is the classic manner by which gentile and sophisticated types make wood bend without fracturing the boards. There are lots of homebrew wood steamer plans online if you feel like mucking around with that sort of thing. If you're a knuckle dragging cretin like me, you cut kerfs (I think this is the right term) at regular intervals along the length of the board, bend it around your frames and then backfill the kerfs with thickened epoxy once the chine log is secured in place.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> That seems really light. That hull is rated for 10 hp at 14', but as you are thinking of a 15 hp because you stretched it to 16', you might want to beef it up a bit. Most of the torque on the transom comes from hauling it down the road with the motor on the transom. The additional weight of a bigger motor might tear it up. 15 hp motors are marketed as "portable", but I'll bet you'll end up bolting it on and leaving it there.
> 
> Tomahawk built to a Bateau.com plan and I extrapolated from a Bateau.com plan, so it is no surprise we did the same thing. The hull I extrapolated (D15) was rated to 25 hp. I haul a 200# motor clamped on my transom at all times because it is too heavy to remove. I still inspect the fillets after every time I haul it because I can't believe I am not tearing it up, but it has held up so far.
> 
> Regarding severe bends, steaming is the classic manner by which gentile and sophisticated types make wood bend without fracturing the boards. There are lots of homebrew wood steamer plans online if you feel like mucking around with that sort of thing. If you're a knuckle dragging cretin like me, you cut kerfs (I think this is the right term) at regular intervals along the length of the board, bend it around your frames and then backfill the kerfs with thickened epoxy once the chine log is secured in place.
> 
> Nate


I agree on the transom seeming light and I think beefing it up is a good idea. What I have to do is figure out the best way to beef it up without adding too much weight. Also, I don't want to overbuild it. I most likely will go with the manual start 15hp zuke with an advertised weight of 97 lbs, and you are correct that I do not intend to take it off the skiff. It sounds like your biggest concern with your transom was with it breaking loose from the hull at the corners. Am I correct? That has me thinking that the corners where the transom attaches is the area I should focus on strengthening. I also plan to have a complete cap on the boat (very little on the gunnels), so this should add strength as well. I'll keep thinking and maybe get some more suggestions as well.

I've fooled with steaming wood and I'm not interested in going that route. I think my idea of planing down strips and applying them 1 at a time to form a laminated chine log is best and yields the strongest chine. That's the route I think I'll go if they break.


----------



## jonrconner

Once you've epoxied, filleted and glassed over the chine log the wood inside is no longer the structural component, it's just something to build around like core, the only reason to fill in the kerfs is you don't want to leave air spaces.
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> Once you've epoxied, filleted and glassed over the chine log the wood inside is no longer the structural component, it's just something to build around like core, the only reason to fill in the kerfs is you don't want to leave air spaces.
> JC


Thanks


----------



## WhiteDog70810

"It sounds like your biggest concern with your transom was with it breaking loose from the hull at the corners. Am I correct? That has me thinking that the corners where the transom attaches is the area I should focus on strengthening."

You are correct, those are the areas I worried about. I am over it now. Glass over ply is strong stuff. I laid down a fillet and then laid down two overlapping layers of 12 oz biax tape on the seams between the transom, sides and bottom. This was per the D15 plans, which is a bigger hull than original specs of the Chalmette, but somewhat similar to your extended version.

The transom seems light to me in light of your goals, but this just based my gut. I've no science to back up my opinion nor do I have experience with ply on frame construction. The frames may add enough stiffness to allow the use of the 1/4" ply. You should talk to the designer about your desired mods.

Laminating the chine logs would work, but it is time consuming. If you are screwing the sides and bottom to the chine log and you aren't using glass, it might be superior. However, if you tape all you seams and tape the chine log in place, the strength will come from the glass, not the wood. Kerf cuts are faster in that case and have negligible or no effect on strength.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> You are correct, those are the areas I worried about. I am over it now. Glass over ply is strong stuff. I laid down a fillet and then laid down two overlapping layers of 12 oz biax tape on the seams between the transom, sides and bottom. This was per the D15 plans, which is a bigger hull than original specs of the Chalmette, but somewhat similar to your extended version.
> 
> The transom seems light to me in light of your goals, but this just based my gut. I've no science to back up my opinion nor do I have experience with ply on frame construction. The frames may add enough stiffness to allow the use of the 1/4" ply. You should talk to the designer about your desired mods.
> 
> Laminating the chine logs would work, but it is time consuming. If you are screwing the sides and bottom to the chine log and you aren't using glass, it might be superior. However, if you tape all you seams and tape the chine log in place, the strength will come from the glass, not the wood. Kerf cuts are faster in that case and have negligible or no effect on strength.
> 
> Nate


Thanks for the reply Nate. 

Regarding the transom, I can make it plenty strong enough. I was hoping for some input to avoid overbuilding it and adding unnecessary weight. Having said that, I'm leaning towards 3/8" plywood on either side of the 1x framed transom. I believe this will be plenty. It will result in a 1-1/2 transom, with the center 12" (vertically) solid.

Regarding the chine logs. I agree with everything you say about laminating vs cutting kerfs. However, I believe that laminating is the best way to go on this boat. I say that from my experience with my first boat (which was also ply on frame). You play heck keeping everything square if the chine logs and sheer clamps are inconsistent from one side to the other in the amount of pressure they impart on the frame. That's another area where laminating excels over other methods IMO. Once the plywood is on the hull, she's locked up just like a stitch and glue and the fiberglass takes over providing the strength. I actually had the force of the chine logs raise one leg of the strongback jig on the drift boat and had to build all kinds of bracing and jiggery (yeah I know that's not a word) to keep things square until I got the plywood on.


----------



## eagle24

Need recommendation on fiberglass cloth. I have 6 oz woven and planned to do 2 layers on outside. Bad idea? Should I order some biaxial?


----------



## jonrconner

Depends mostly on how much abrasion resistance you think you need, for strength, a single layer of 6oz will probably be fine since the structure of the boat is the frames more than the skin. What you put on the inside is what defines the strength.
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> Depends mostly on how much abrasion resistance you think you need, for strength, a single layer of 6oz will probably be fine since the structure of the boat is the frames more than the skin. What you put on the inside is what defines the strength.
> JC


Based on the other boat I built, I kinda felt like strength would be fine for sure with 2 layers. I'm not sure how to quantify how much abrasion resistance I need. I'll probably do 2 layers at least on the bottom and transom. How would 2 layers of 6 oz woven compare to a single layer of 12 oz biaxial in weight? If the single 12 oz would not be significantly lighter, then I think I will go with the 6 oz I have.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

A single layer of 6 oz should be fine. The areas most prone to abrasion are the chines and strakes. You should have a layer of biax tape (most plans seem to call for biax tape for structural seams) and the cloth sheathing over the chines and over-lapping biax holding the strakes on, plus you will usually have to build up the radius of the chine and strake edges with thickened epoxy to a square edge. As such, the highest wear areas should be well protected without an extra layer of cloth. If the plans don't ask for a heavy lamination schedule, you are adding extra weight. If you are really worried about abrasion, you can sheath the bottom with a final layer of Dynel and then finish the bottom with epoxy graphite.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

JC, I took your advice and sawed kerfs in the chine logs. Worked great! I was amazed at how flexible the chine log became with the kerfs. Saved me a lot of time over doing the laminated chine log.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Jonrconner suggested kerfs before me. Looks like you got nice fair curve out of it. Sometimes when you muscle a recalcitrant board into a curve, it flexes unevenly along the curve and looks very unfair. The kerfs help that.

Looking good! Building the jig and and get the initial boat-like parts assembled was the best part of the build for me.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> Jonrconner suggested kerfs before me. Looks like you got nice fair curve out of it. Sometimes when you muscle a recalcitrant board into a curve, it flexes unevenly along the curve and looks very unfair. The kerfs help that.
> 
> Looking good! Building the jig and and get the initial boat-like parts assembled was the best part of the build for me.
> 
> Nate


Thanks for correcting me. It was late when I posted last night. I got confused on who suggested kerfs. Thanks JC. 

It took me most of the day yesterday to fit everything so that it was all "tuned" to where everything was aligned. I should have taken a pic with all the strings, levels, and homemade jigs attached.


----------



## eagle24

Not much progress today, but 2 more sheer clamp pieces and the frame will be ready to fair for plywood. No rush, it will be Friday before my plywood arrives.


----------



## jonrconner

One hint about leveling, a water level will perform miracles, just a plastic bottle, 20' of 1/4" clear tubing, a 1/4" dowel and some food dye for the water, tape the dowel to the end of the tubing to make marks on.
JC
On the left side you can see the bottle tube and stick.


----------



## eagle24

JC, That's a great idea. I have seen water levels used before, but never thought about using one while building a boat. It never crossed my mind, but I can see times when it would come in handy. This frame is getting pretty locked up now. When I get the plywood on the sides there won't be anymore moving. I ordered plywood from one of my suppliers to my building supply and I'm having to wait on it to get here, but the saving was significant because they are shipping it on a truck with one of my regular orders.


----------



## eagle24

A couple of questions so I don't get too far along and limit my options, and so that I can stay ahead of myself in planning.

1. If I wanted to someday add a poling platform, do I need to reinforce the stern deck to accommodate? Is a skiff with a 44" max beam too narrow to even consider a poling platform?

2. What would be the best option for a cooler as a seat and grab bar? Not sure if the bar is mounted to the sole of the skiff and the cooler just straps, or the bar is mounted to the cooler. Again, do I need to add support for fastening a bar or tying down a cooler underneath the sole?

3. What do most of you do about a livewell?

Tie downs for a portable livewell and cooler seem like a good option to me, but I would like to do so in a manner so that when I don't use the cooler or livewell, there aren't obstructions in the floor of the skiff.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

1.) It will be more stable than you expect as long as you expect it to be unstable There are lots of platforms on narrow hulls. If you think you might put a platform on it, reinforce the deck with 1/2" ply at the tie down points. While you are at it, do the same where you will mount push pole holders. I'd be tempted to make a 6-8" wide strip of 1/2" along both sides of the front and rear decks and more 2'x6" strip along both sides at the middle. You never know how you might want to mount something in the future and it is nice to have options.

2.) It is narrow for a console, but people do it. I like my sissy stick.

3.) I think you are on the right track regarding the live well.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> 1.) It will be more stable than you expect as long as you expect it to be unstable There are lots of platforms on narrow hulls. If you think you might put a platform on it, reinforce the deck with 1/2" ply at the tie down points. While you are at it, do the same where you will mount push pole holders. I'd be tempted to make a 6-8" wide strip of 1/2" along both sides of the front and rear decks and more 2'x6" strip along both sides at the middle. You never know how you might want to mount something in the future and it is nice to have options.
> 
> 2.) It is narrow for a console, but people do it. I like my sissy stick.
> 
> 3.) I think you are on the right track regarding the live well.
> 
> 
> Nate


When you say reinforce the deck with 1/2" plywood, are you talking about putting !/2" plywood doublers under the plywood deck? Not sure I understand the last part "more 2'x6" strip along both sides at the middle" either.

This is a piece of the Dow Blueboard I was planning to put between the frames underneath the sole. This is a piece of runner material they stack the bundles on. I sawed it in half and glued it back together. I was thinking about cutting these to height on the bandsaw, glueing them together and to the bottom of the boat. Then filling around the edges with the 2 part marine foam and glueing the sole to the foamboard and the top of the frames. Is it ok to glue it?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Hmmm, gotta be more clear. Yes, double up the ply at the attachment points. I just remembered that you are making fairly narrow gunnels. You'll need a push pole holder somewhere around the 6' station, but you really won't know exactly where until the decks are on and you can mock it up. Take your best guess and double up the ply 1' forward and aft of that point.

My decks are 1/4" and I didn't back it up with 1/2" anywhere. Consequently, my push pole mounts are likely to rip out if I hang them on a dock or something. Once I tear them out doing something stupid, I'll cut a big honking holes in my deck and add some 1/2" underneath the decks.

I can't seem to find a pic of my set up as Photobucket is refusing to show me my mobile upload files. PM Anytide. He is a moderator now, so you will have seem his comments somewhere on the forum. He runs shallowwatersolutions.com and will basically make a modified anchor pin mount that holds a cut down anchor pin that makes a stout sissy stick. It simply bolts to a frame. If you ever need to club a seal, it will do that too. I really like mine and I own Pat (Anytide) some pics for promotional purposes.

I'll get a pic and post it soon. My boat is in the barn awaiting TLC, so it is a good time to get on that.

Nate


----------



## jonrconner

I'm sure he meant to put the 1/2" ply under the deck at your mounting points.
Yes, glue the sole to the foam, otherwise it will have soft spots, especially if you use 1/4" which I would advocate to keep weight down, it will be solid over the foam and also become structural.
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> I'm sure he meant to put the 1/2" ply under the deck at your mounting points.
> Yes, glue the sole to the foam, otherwise it will have soft spots, especially if you use 1/4" which I would advocate to keep weight down, it will be solid over the foam and also become structural.
> JC


Thanks JC. I think I could use 1/8" over this foam and it would be solid. I wasn't sure if I could glue it, or needed to allow it to have some movement. It will be awhile before I flip it and start working on the inside, I'm just trying to get all my questions answered so I know where I am going with everything.


----------



## jonrconner

BTW, I'm assuming you'll cover the sole with some FB cloth and epoxy for wear resistance.
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> BTW, I'm assuming you'll cover the sole with some FB cloth and epoxy for wear resistance.
> JC


Yes. Not exactly sure what weight cloth. I figured I would ask about all that when I started working on the inside. I'll have some questions about the best way to brace the decks as well.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

That foam isn't structural and will compact when the 1/8" flexes under your weight. You don't want to go lighter than 1/4" and it will need a layer of 6 oz glass top and bottom even then. Even with frames every 16", it still flexes a minute amount even when cambered across the hull. Been there, done that. 

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Brett also built a similar hull to yours. He is basically our forum's ply skiff Yoda.

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/start-from-scratch.16399/

Also check out this idiot's build thread. He already made a lot of mistakes so you don't have to.

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/i-am-not-just-talking-anymore.17295/

Both are stitch and glue instead of ply on frame, but there is a lot of stuff that might be relevant.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> That foam isn't structural and will compact when the 1/8" flexes under your weight. You don't want to go lighter than 1/4" and it will need a layer of 6 oz glass top and bottom even then. Even with frames every 16", it still flexes a minute amount even when cambered across the hull. Been there, done that.
> 
> Nate


I will be using the 1/4" Nate, but I respectfully disagree that the foam isn't structural when properly fit and glued to both the bottom and the sole. I'll do some experiments with the foam and post pics and results. Maybe I am wrong, but I think that stuff will be pretty solid with 1/4" plywood displacing the weight over a larger area. I stood on that piece on one foot and it didn't leave an impression where the heel of my boot was.


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> Brett also built a similar hull to yours. He is basically our forum's ply skiff Yoda.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/threads/start-from-scratch.16399/
> 
> Also check out this idiot's build thread. He already made a lot of mistakes so you don't have to.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/threads/i-am-not-just-talking-anymore.17295/
> 
> Both are stitch and glue instead of ply on frame, but there is a lot of stuff that might be relevant.
> 
> Nate


Thanks! I will check these out. I'm not trying to be argumentative and I appreciate any and all input. This is quite different from the boat I built to bang down rocky creeks in.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

The extruded styrofoam seems stiff now, but once it cooks in the sun, things change and cycling of the sole will cause soft spots over time. It will be fine under 1/4", but don't skimp on the glass. 1/4" in flat applications is really floppy, but lots of guys makes 1/4" soles over foam with good results.

Nate


----------



## jonrconner

Nate,
That foam he's using is not anything like sheet foam, it's the stuff they use for bunks between huge stacks on the pallets, and it's pretty close to rock hard, but still quite light.
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> Nate,
> That foam he's using is not anything like sheet foam, it's the stuff they use for bunks between huge stacks on the pallets, and it's pretty close to rock hard, but still quite light.
> JC


Correct. I can't imagine this stuff having any give with 1/4" plywood distributing the weight.

Nate, Thanks for pointing me to the build threads. Looks like you fish a lot of the same type water I fish. Also, I talked with Anytide today. He's working on something for me. Thanks for that info as well.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

jonrconner said:


> Nate,
> That foam he's using is not anything like sheet foam, it's the stuff they use for bunks between huge stacks on the pallets, and it's pretty close to rock hard, but still quite light.
> JC


Oh! I thought it was glorified insulation board. Ignore me.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

eagle24 said:


> Correct. I can't imagine this stuff having any give with 1/4" plywood distributing the weight.
> 
> Nate, Thanks for pointing me to the build threads. Looks like you fish a lot of the same type water I fish. Also, I talked with Anytide today. He's working on something for me. Thanks for that info as well.


I'm in Aiken, South Carolina now and I haven't been fishing yet because I have been taking care of an endless list of irritating grownup stuff ever since I moved here. By all accounts, the fishing is more my style here, so I gotta get my act together.

I like to point people to Anytide. He's good people and his prices are very reasonable given the insanity that generally passes as prices for skiff paraphernalia.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> I like to point people to Anytide. He's good people and his prices are very reasonable given the insanity that generally passes as prices for skiff paraphernalia.
> 
> Nate


I'm definitely going to be doing some business with him. He's looking at doing a custom piece for me for another boat now. I sent him pics and measurements this afternoon. Taking a break from the build tonight and going fishing tomorrow. I have plywood arriving Friday and will get after it then.


----------



## eagle24

I got sidetracked and have been working on filling the freezer with crappie fillets since last Thursday. I have done a little bit of work each evening and have the frame completed and ready for fairing. Well.......almost.......I have to fill all those kerfs I cut in the chine logs and sheer clamps, lol. I'll hopefully post a progress pic maybe Sunday. Planning to fish Thursday and Friday and let the dogs tree some squirrels Saturday.


----------



## eagle24

Frame complete except for fairing and epoxy fillets and prime coat.


I'm guessing it weighs around 35 lbs right now.


----------



## Whiskey Angler

Sweet. I'll be watching this one closely. It seems like a design I may try to do myself one day, as my first build.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Looks good! I've never hunted tree rats with dogs, but I've heard it is fun. I hope you got a few!

Nate


----------



## trekker

Looking solid !


----------



## eagle24

Not a lot of progress. Been busy hunting and fishing the last 2 weeks. Got the outer plywood on the transom and the plywood on the tunnel. I should get the plywood on this week.


----------



## eagle24

One more piece of plywood tomorrow and the sides will be on. Since this skiff is flat bottomed for most of the length, I decided to true it up on the floor and sheet the sides rather than use the strongback (which offered little support). I'll flip it over when I get the other piece on and fair the bottom for sheeting.


----------



## jonrconner

Taking shape, looks great!
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> Taking shape, looks great!
> JC


Thanks JC! I'm slow in Feb. Have to split my time between fishing and getting my squirrel dogs some woods time. Season ends Feb 29. Take a look at the transom. Should I put foam in the hollow parts of the transom between the inner and outer plywood?


----------



## jonrconner

Yes, that's what I did, great minds think alike! Any void is a place for bad things to happen.
JC


----------



## yobata

I don't mean to de-rail this thread, but I noticed that some choose to use styrofoam to fill voids. Is styrofoam the same as expanded poly styrene? Can I use styrofoam from a box of furniture (ikea)? They are large flat sheets - 1.25"


----------



## jonrconner

I'd be a little suspicious of packing styrofoam from the standpoint of long term stability. I used insulating foam in my transom voids.
JC


----------



## CurtisWright

yobata said:


> I don't mean to de-rail this thread, but I noticed that some choose to use styrofoam to fill voids. Is styrofoam the same as expanded poly styrene? Can I use styrofoam from a box of furniture (ikea)? They are large flat sheets - 1.25"


No, The styrene in resin will melt the Styrofoam. You have to use polyurethane foam.

Spend the money to get the two part pour foam or buy preformed polyurethane foam panels.


----------



## yobata

CurtisWright said:


> No, The styrene in resin will melt the Styrofoam. You have to use polyurethane foam.
> 
> Spend the money to get the two part pour foam or buy preformed polyurethane foam panels.


Will this work? http://www.lowes.com/pd_15348-46086-201549_1z11pq2__?productId=3014183&pl=1

I would rather use the preformed boards than the expandable, pour-able, 2 part...


----------



## CurtisWright

yobata said:


> Will this work? http://www.lowes.com/pd_15348-46086-201549_1z11pq2__?productId=3014183&pl=1
> 
> I would rather use the preformed boards than the expandable, pour-able, 2 part...


No, It will melt. 
Use this stuff
http://www.fibreglast.com/product/Polyisocyanurate_Foam_Sheets_440/Foam

This is for insulation and flotation only. You have to use the 6lb or heaver for structural parts.


----------



## tomahawk

She's looking like a boat. Looking good!


----------



## eagle24

yobata said:


> Will this work? http://www.lowes.com/pd_15348-46086-201549_1z11pq2__?productId=3014183&pl=1
> 
> I would rather use the preformed boards than the expandable, pour-able, 2 part...


A polystyrene foam will work with epoxy. I believe this will work, but not knowing the brand or exact composition, I'm not positive. I do know that DOW Blueboard polystyrene will work. It is compatible with epoxy resins and will not melt. It is also a closed cell foam. That is what I am going to use in some areas along with the 2 part pour-able foam for marine use.


----------



## eagle24

Fiberglass question. Should I use the woven 6 oz. FG cloth that I have, or should I order something different? Don't know a whole lot about the different cloths and their uses. I'll have a chunk in this build, so if I need to order something different I will. I can use the 6oz woven somewhere else. Give me some advice on what would be the best to use. Thanks!


----------



## jonrconner

I think 6oz woven is just right, in addition, I'd suggest 12oz biax on the all the inside seams.
JC


----------



## yobata

eagle24 said:


> Fiberglass question. Should I use the woven 6 oz. FG cloth that I have, or should I order something different? Don't know a whole lot about the different cloths and their uses. I'll have a chunk in this build, so if I need to order something different I will. I can use the 6oz woven somewhere else. Give me some advice on what would be the best to use. Thanks!


I used 12 oz biax on the transom, but will use 6oz on the decks, sole, bulkheads, and 6" 12oz biax tape for all tabbing/inside seams


----------



## eagle24

Thanks guys! I'll order some 12oz biax tape. Got the last piece of plywood on the sides this afternoon. I'll flip it and put the plywood on the bottom. IMO, the hard part will be over with when I get the plywood on the bottom. No more shimming, leveling, checking and re-checking straightness. Actually, I think it's pretty well locked up with just the ply on the sides.


Cut the blueboard for the hollow portion of the transom. Probably done for the night. Looks like some bad weather here in AL tonight.


----------



## eagle24

Inner plywood laminated on transom frame


----------



## anytide




----------



## yobata

Nice job! Remember, "don't squeeze too hard, a small gap filled with epoxy makes the strongest bonds" (Jacques, Bateau)


----------



## eagle24

Really not sure how to fair this and how to sheet the bottom from the last rib to the stem. I will glue a piece of 2" material on the stem and shape it fair to the sides, but unsure how to deal with the bottom near the stem. Advice here would be much appreciated.


----------



## jonrconner

There's a tremendous amount of twist in this section, you could round off the bottom end of the stem into a much longer radius to alleviate the problem, lessening the twist. That's my best advice.
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> There's a tremendous amount of twist in this section, you could round off the bottom end of the stem into a much longer radius to alleviate the problem, lessening the twist. That's my best advice.
> JC


I considered glueing in some solid 2x material for the first 8" or so on each side of the stem and sculpting it with a wood rasp. Would that be a bad idea?


----------



## jonrconner

It think that would probably work, I'd still rake the bottom of the stem back to make the shape less radical.
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> It think that would probably work, I'd still rake the bottom of the stem back to make the shape less radical.
> JC


Thanks! Yes, I plan to smooth the stem for a better transition.


----------



## CurtisWright

Glue/Epoxy other piece inside the Skeg all the way to the first station so that you can grind down the bow and make the transition easier.

The other way to keep that much sheer would be to build the whole bottom out of 1" strips.


----------



## eagle24

CurtisWright said:


> Glue/Epoxy other piece inside the Skeg all the way to the first station so that you can grind down the bow and make the transition easier.
> 
> The other way to keep that much sheer would be to build the whole bottom out of 1" strips.


Thanks! I may do a combination of the two.


----------



## Hannon

eagle24 said:


> I worked about an hour last night and scarfed the chine logs and sheer clamps. This afternoon I worked a few hours. Got the strongback jig built and got 4 frames attached to the keelson. The aft end of the keelson starts at frame 2 instead of at the transom due to the tunnel. Tomorrow afternoon, I hope to get the transom, frame 1, the chine logs and sheer clamps fitted. I'll do all the squaring and leveling when I attach the chine logs and sheer clamps, then I can glue all the joints.


I just got my chalmette micro skiff plans and built the strong back and was wondering how you attached the frames to the strongback


----------



## eagle24

Hannon said:


> I just got my chalmette micro skiff plans and built the strong back and was wondering how you attached the frames to the strongback


I didn't attach mine to the strongback, but that's not what I would recommend in retrospect. What I would do is build the strongback from 2 - 2x4's spaced as far apart as the narrowest frame will allow and I would make it the length from the transom to the forward most frame. Cut the keelson to length from frame 2 to the stem and attach the stem. You can fasten the aft end of the keelson to frame 2, mark the frame locations on your strongback for the other frames to rest on. You can just clamp them to the strongback, or cut some scrap wood to fasten to the strongback and each frame to attach them. Having a strongback with two stringers lengthwise (built like a ladder) will offer support to keep the frames level.

I basically dry fitted mine and attached everything initially with screws. The keelson and the chine logs held the frames in the same plane. Once the epoxy cured, the screws were removed. Regardless how you decide to do this, take extreme care in building your frames. Make them PERFECT and make sure you use a really straight board for the keelson. Do what you have to to insure you build a straight frame and everything will fall into place. Once you get the plywood on the sides, it will be pretty much locked up straight (or not).


----------



## Hannon

eagle24 said:


> I didn't attach mine to the strongback, but that's not what I would recommend in retrospect. What I would do is build the strongback from 2 - 2x4's spaced as far apart as the narrowest frame will allow and I would make it the length from the transom to the forward most frame. Cut the keelson to length from frame 2 to the stem and attach the stem. You can fasten the aft end of the keelson to frame 2, mark the frame locations on your strongback for the other frames to rest on. You can just clamp them to the strongback, or cut some scrap wood to fasten to the strongback and each frame to attach them. Having a strongback with two stringers lengthwise (built like a ladder) will offer support to keep the frames level.
> 
> I basically dry fitted mine and attached everything initially with screws. The keelson and the chine logs held the frames in the same plane. Once the epoxy cured, the screws were removed. Regardless how you decide to do this, take extreme care in building your frames. Make them PERFECT and make sure you use a really straight board for the keelson. Do what you have to to insure you build a straight frame and everything will fall into place. Once you get the plywood on the sides, it will be pretty much locked up straight (or not).


thanks for the advice


----------



## eagle24

Hannon said:


> thanks for the advice


Your welcome. I would love to see photos of your Chalmette as you progress. We can compare notes and discuss problems as they arise. Maybe when all is done we will have a couple of decent skiff boats.


----------



## eagle24

Worked on the little skiff this afternoon. I got the chines faired and 2 pieces of the bottom cut and fitted. Should I glass the inside of the bottom before I put it on, or glass it and tab it to all the frames afterwards?


----------



## jonrconner

Sounds like a good idea to glass it first, lots easier, you can put a bead of thickened epoxy on each rib before assembly.
How did your bow area work out?
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> Sounds like a good idea to glass it first, lots easier, you can put a bead of thickened epoxy on each rib before assembly.
> How did your bow area work out?
> JC


Still working on the bow JC, that's why I started at the transom with the bottom sheeting. LOL It's gonna work fine though.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

You'll likely get a better lamination if you glass the parts individually. Glassing concave surfaces without entrapping bubbles is tough.

However, you will lose one layer of glass on the inside of the chine and another on the outside unless you add another layer of tape (more weight) to compensate. The glass-ply laminate will be even harder to form to that twist in the bow. If your ply has any warp whatsoever or if you lay the glass thicker in some areas than others, glassing it before it is fit to the hull might make it flex unfairly around the frames.

Looking back, I'd consider glassing the inside of each piece individually prior to assembly if my ply was absolutely flat and if I could get it stitched and tabbed within the 1st 24 hrs before the epoxy reached full hardness. I would always glass the outside of the hull as a whole because it is easy to sheath convex surfaces.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> You'll likely get a better lamination if you glass the parts individually. Glassing concave surfaces without entrapping bubbles is tough.
> 
> However, you will lose one layer of glass on the inside of the chine and another on the outside unless you add another layer of tape (more weight) to compensate. The glass-ply laminate will be even harder to form to that twist in the bow. If your ply has any warp whatsoever or if you lay the glass thicker in some areas than others, glassing it before it is fit to the hull might make it flex unfairly around the frames.
> 
> Looking back, I'd consider glassing the inside of each piece individually prior to assembly if my ply was absolutely flat and if I could get it stitched and tabbed within the 1st 24 hrs before the epoxy reached full hardness. I would always glass the outside of the hull as a whole because it is easy to sheath convex surfaces.
> 
> Nate


Thanks Nate! Glassing a warp into the plywood was something I wondered about. After thinking about it today, I have about decided I would rather just roll a good coat of epoxy on and put it on without glassing it first.


----------



## eagle24

Decided to go without laminating the bottom until I flip the boat. I gave everything a good coat of epoxy with a roller, then thickened some with wood flour and silica to butter all the frames.

Ready for the first sheet


Ready for the next sheet


Weight it all down, crawl underneath and check everything, clean up any excess epoxy, and go eat dinner.


----------



## yobata

I think you have a good weight distribution here. Some people 'over-clamp' - Jacques at Boat Builder Central/ Betau says the best bonds are made WITH a reasonable gap using epoxy... If you squeeze the thickened epoxy out of the space between materials, the bond is not as strong....


----------



## eagle24

yobata said:


> I think you have a good weight distribution here. Some people 'over-clamp' - Jacques at Boat Builder Central/ Betau says the best bonds are made WITH a reasonable gap using epoxy... If you squeeze the thickened epoxy out of the space between materials, the bond is not as strong....


I agree. Lots of times I use a lot of clamps (like on the transom), but I only tighten the clamps down until the epoxy starts to push out of the joint and then I stop. Using a slightly curved board between the clamps works well to distribute pressure across a larger area. Another thing I do sometimes, is pin the joints by drilling across the joint and filling with epoxy or glueing in a fluted hardwood dowel. Probably unnecessary overkill, but I can't help myself and it really doesn't add any weight.


----------



## eagle24

Inching my way toward the bow. Man I'm ready to get the plywood done and fair and glass this thing!


----------



## yobata

Are you going to try and use smaller and smaller planks as you move closer to end of bow?


----------



## eagle24

yobata said:


> Are you going to try and use smaller and smaller planks as you move closer to end of bow?


Yes. I won't have any choice with all the twist. The keelson and stem will be shaped almost to a point at the bow. I don't think the next piece can be much wider than about 4".


----------



## scsdiver

Looking good!


----------



## eagle24

I got a little done on the bottom the last 2 evenings..Maybe by the weekend, I will have all the plywood on the hull. Any suggestions on the last 10" are welcome.


----------



## jonrconner

Put a block under your last plank and then do the same as before with your little planks running fore and aft, you'll have to make them really thin to deal with the twist, but then you can cover them with thickened epoxy on both sides to smooth things up and give thickness and strength.
JC


----------



## CurtisWright

There is no way to do it right from this point. You can keep going then do a lot of grinding and fairing, or you can take the whole bottom of the boat off and start over.


----------



## eagle24

CurtisWright said:


> There is no way to do it right from this point. You can keep going then do a lot of grinding and fairing, or you can take the whole bottom of the boat off and start over.


I'm confused. How should I have done it? Also, "take the whole bottom off"? It is flat up to the 2nd to last frame. How would taking the back 13' of flat bottom off change anything at the bow?


----------



## eagle24

What dimension should the strakes be, how many, how long, and where should they be located? What dimensions should a spray rail be and where should it be located?


----------



## eagle24

The last of the plywood IS ON! The strips from the last frame to the bow stem are surprisingly fair. I haven't run over them with a sander yet, but it won't take much to have the area ready for fiberglass.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

eagle24 said:


> What dimension should the strakes be, how many, how long, and where should they be located? What dimensions should a spray rail be and where should it be located?


The plans don't show them? That is surprising. I honestly only used a single middle strake (~1.75"x3/4") to provide longitudinal rigidity of the bottom. Plywood can act floppy under power without some reinforcement. For my purposes, I'd rather have a completely slick bottom because I am in mud so frequently and strakes make it much harder to slide sideways. Boats this small can only go so fast safely, so I don't feel I need strakes to stick in my turns. I hear they help tracking, but I question whether any strake that doesn't significantly increase draft can really help tracking that much. Hard chines help tracking much more in my opinion.

I don't know anything about spray rails.

Nate


----------



## eagle24

WhiteDog70810 said:


> The plans don't show them? That is surprising. I honestly only used a single middle strake (~1.75"x3/4") to provide longitudinal rigidity of the bottom. Plywood can act floppy under power without some reinforcement. For my purposes, I'd rather have a completely slick bottom because I am in mud so frequently and strakes make it much harder to slide sideways. Boats this small can only go so fast safely, so I don't feel I need strakes to stick in my turns. I hear they help tracking, but I question whether any strake that doesn't significantly increase draft can really help tracking that much. Hard chines help tracking much more in my opinion.
> 
> I don't know anything about spray rails.
> 
> Nate


No. The plans don't show strakes I'm thinking I would like to have them for better tracking vs a completely flat bottom hull. I was considering 2 strakes centered between the chines and tunnel. Probably isn't critical on this hull with a 15hp motor. Oh, that brings another thing to mind. I'm putting a Suzuki 4-stroke on this skiff. The 15hp and 20hp both weigh 97 lbs and not a lot of price difference. I'm considering the 20hp. The thought of cruising along at half throttle is appealing to me, and I would have plenty of power with 2 people in the skiff. Also, I may have something else in the works that I could use the 20 on as well. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

That hull is rated to 10 HP. When I ran the numbers using the formula in one of the stickies at the top of the Bragging Spot, my hull is only rated for 10 HP also. It is the narrow transom and hard chines that drives down the HP rating. I have a 20 HP mudmotor on mine, so my credibility as a safety zealot is tarnished, but I can at least admit that my hull would be faster and a better boat with a 10 HP outboard instead of my big dinosaur.

I understand liking that 20 HP 'Zuke because I like its power-to-weight also and the electronic fuel injection sounds great, but these light, narrow, flat bottom hulls are literally not made for speed. There is a design threshold at about 10 HP hull rating. At the speeds possible with a 10 HP or lower, a designer can skip a lot of stiffness to save weight. If you go much faster than what a 10 HP can generate, the light construction can lead to structural failures. You'll hear from Gheenoe owners who run motors that are over the HP rating of their hull, but they have often reinforced the transom, laid another layer of glass on the bottom, added stringers and added more substantial cross-members under a raised sole. I understand wanting the power for more payload, but if you think you won't use that extra throttle the rest of the time, you are kidding yourself.

Nate


----------



## jonrconner

Here's what I did, with some advice from Chris Morejohn. The strakes running along the outside of the chine do two things, they provide a lot of lift, by increasing the planing surface, and they give a lot of grip in a turn, there isn't even a hint of side slip, the boat feels like it's on rails. 
JC


----------



## eagle24

jonrconner said:


> Here's what I did, with some advice from Chris Morejohn. The strakes running along the outside of the chine do two things, they provide a lot of lift, by increasing the planing surface, and they give a lot of grip in a turn, there isn't even a hint of side slip, the boat feels like it's on rails.
> JC


Thanks JC, this looks like a good plan to me. Do I run the strakes on the outside from the transom to the point where the hull starts to taper? How wide is the strake at the transom? How did you determine the angle of where to put the strake? Why the short strakes on the bottom towards the bow?


----------



## jonrconner

Width at the transom is about 4" and it's about 2.5" above the bottom, the total length is about 8' and my boat is 16' OAL. The little strakes up front are to direct spray downwards. 
The boat is in storage now, that's why everything is approximate.
JC


----------



## eagle24

Worked about an hr this afternoon trimming the bow planking, smoothing it up a bit with the multi-tool grinder blade, and spreading a layer of thickened epoxy to fair it some. I'm pretty pleased with the hull. I should get some fiberglass on tomorrow.


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only

eagle24 said:


> Worked about an hr this afternoon trimming the bow planking, smoothing it up a bit with the multi-tool grinder blade, and spreading a layer of thickened epoxy to fair it some. I'm pretty pleased with the hull. I should get some fiberglass on tomorrow.


Nice, you worked thru a major issue....


----------



## eagle24

A bit closer to fiberglassing the hull.


----------



## eagle24

Finally back to working on this skiff if I can keep my buddies from playing "King of the Hill".

Hull coated with epoxy and ready for fiberglass.


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only

eagle24 said:


> Finally back to working on this skiff if I can keep my buddies from playing "King of the Hill". Looking good.......
> 
> Hull coated with epoxy and ready for fiberglass.


----------



## trekker

Looking good.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

It looks good. I am liking this hull more and more as you go along. That little bit of vee will hopefully make it a bit quieter at anchor in the wind and when polling with light load in the front. Those are the times a completely flat bottom gets obnoxiously load.

Nate


----------



## wely

Great job I also have the same plans. Love the design plan on starting mine soon. Keep up the good work!


----------



## BillP

hey , how did the boat come out ?? i want to start one and curious as to how this one rides ..


----------



## eagle24

BillP said:


> hey , how did the boat come out ?? i want to start one and curious as to how this one rides ..


BillP, I got side tracked a bit. I finished the tri-hull boat that I was restoring. Then I made a choice to build another boat before finishing this one. I really want to get back to work on this one (and I will), but I decided I needed to get a drift boat built first. I have been fishing a lot of rivers in Tennessee and will definitely use the drift boat more. It's really more of a White River styled boat than a western styled drift boat. The Chalmette hull is built and ready for glass. Right now it is stored in my lumber warehouse. I should be back working on it in a couple of months.


----------



## BillP

Thanks for the reply and good luck with the other build , i look forward to seeing it run , hope to start mine soon !


----------



## trekker

Does this design come with the tunnel or did you add that yourself?


----------



## eagle24

trekker said:


> Does this design come with the tunnel or did you add that yourself?


It is original to the plans.


----------



## eagle24

View attachment 4022


----------



## trekker

Man that looks slick. What is the beam on it?


----------



## eagle24

trekker said:


> Man that looks slick. What is the beam on it?


15'9" length 44" max beam. It's resting in my warehouse right now. I should be working on it again in 6 weeks.


----------



## trekker

Get got.


----------



## wely

Any update on the skiff?


----------



## Irwin1970

*eagle24 *

*Did you finish the Chalmete? Also, what type of wood did you use? Chine log sheer clamp.... hull?*

*Thanks.*


----------

