# Amateur skiff design project



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Looks great!!

Looks like a good start to a project.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

computer aided design and cardboard models are ok for basic design, but as I quickly learned when building my skiff alot of design elements that worked ok in small scale won't work in larger scale due to compound curves in the plywood. Most boat kits you buy are reverse engineered because it took some trial and error to get them right.

So my suggestion is to make atleast a 1/6th scale model and see how it works out when using actual plywood.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> computer aided design and cardboard models are ok for basic design, but as I quickly learned when building my skiff alot of design elements that worked ok in small scale won't work in larger scale due to compound curves in the plywood. Most boat kits you buy are reverse engineered because it took some trial and error to get them right.
> 
> So my suggestion is to make atleast a 1/6th scale model and see how it works out when using actual plywood.


I agree for sure! I am using some curvature constraints to better represent the limitations of ply but still...no calulations or design speculation scan compensate for actual slabs of laminated organic material. I'm going to push a couple designs further and once I make up my mind I will indeed make a real model.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> laminated organic material


                                ;D

I prefer: "chemically bonded stratified cellulose"

                                 

Figuring a 4'x8' sheet of quarter inch plywood weighs about 22 lbs,
and you'll need about 40 lbs of epoxy and fiberglass,
what does your hull weight calculate out to?

And based on hull volume, what will the max capacity load be?




> Ok, Brett is making me do this!


Now that's funny! Just because I prefer action over talk,
and nagged you into it, you're gonna blame me....

                               ;D ;D ;D


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> no calulations or design speculation scan compensate for actual slabs of laminated organic material. I'm going to push a couple designs further and once I make up my mind I will indeed make a real model.


Good deal. I'll say this, if I had gone with a flat bottom instead of a small V up front, it would have cut alot of time and complication out of my build. When doing the V the ply naturally wanted to bow out into a certain shape, I tried to force it back and it made it goofy looking. Once I decided to build it as it naturally flowed it started to take on a better shape. Really I made my V to small and wish I had just done a flat bottom for my first build cause once on plane it doesn't matter anyway. 
My next build will incorporate a much larger V front but still a flat rear. I also will not put another tunnel/pocket drive in my next boat, it really didn't do much except to increase my rear draft. So no tunnel next time, but I will have sponsons  and my jack plate


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## djorgens (Feb 9, 2010)

I was thinking along the same lines, but have mine slightly overpowered with 15hp 2-stroke (#77) & the deck layout is slightly different.. Also, mine has a stepped hull to help improve efficiency, but with silimilar low freeboard..

Obviously I'm just kidding -your design looks pretty good & nice modeling to help visualize the concept.. With the weatehr turning nice though I would be trading in that computer mouse for a fishing rod..

the business end:









manual jack plate setup:









forward battery & 3 gal tank:









ready for action:


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

wow, that looks great. 

I've got something on the drawing board too, but will leave it at that so Brett has more latitude for the inaction comments.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

Brett, my calculations use 6mm Meranti 6566 which is .78 lbs/sqft
The hull, transom (3 layers for transom), deck and stations are 133.85 sqft
This gives me 104.4 lbs for plywood only. This weight ONLY includes raw ply utilization.
It doesn’t include cloth, fillet material, or epoxy. I have not decided what weight fiberglass I am going to use but 10oz for the hull sounds good to me.
My liberal estimate for epoxy is about 6 gallons max. I’m sure I will use less though. I don’t have access to the 3d model right now so I do not have access to volume displacement numbers.
Design draft is 4 inches. I will check my freeship model when I get home. It will be a couple of days thought…

Funny thing is, I spent last night trying to find a local source of cedar strips because I’m starting to like the idea of a cedar freight canoe a little better.
I might end up posting the cedar design too. Lol I’m such a wishy-washy person! Lol I probably will not make my final decision until I am have built my 1/6th model of this one.
Building a model of the stripper might not ever happen. If I decide to go with that one. I will dive RIGHT into full construction.

craw_daddy, that is one sweet ride you have there! Sometimes I think pretty hard about just BUYING a boat and just being done with it! I just recently saw a used Kevlar savage creek skiff for sale and nearly lost my head! It was too much boat for me though.


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## FSUfisher (Jul 16, 2007)

That looks awesome. Don't let your wishy-washiness destroy your motivation and momentum. Do the freight canoe later.


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

Don't make it out of cedar!!! I owned a beautiful square stern cedar strip canoe for a few years, when I moved from Miami(sand, grass and typically clear water) to St. Aug(oysters and coffee water) I sold it almost immediately, the dern thing was just to pretty to go scrapping/fishing in around here...Hence my $100 grey like a ghost current canoe, which if Brett continues to nag me, will be upgraded to a homegrown skiff..

"If we go fishing and don't hear a "EERRRAAPP" sound, then we weren't gettin' skinny enough.."

Isn't the whole point of a micro to go where others can't and not worry about low tide and getting back?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> "KEERRRAAPP"


I knew I'd heard that noise somewhere before...
Ghost, that was the sound you made when that 10 foot plus gator
slid off the mud bank on our way out of the marsh.
I still say it would have been fun bumping into him
in that 5 foot wide, 6 inch deep creek we were scraping through!

Another reason for microskiffs, they make everything you catch,
or that catches you, look bigger...

                                          [smiley=happy.gif]


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

[smiley=1-laugh.gif],


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Oysterbreath,

First and foremost, nice boat. 

None of you curves looks outrageous for 6 mm ply unless they are compound. Doesn't Freeship highlight compound curves? None look compound at first glance. Will Rhino unfold the model and give you a table of offsets? Freeship will, but I couldn't get it to draw exactly what I wanted. It always gave me an approximation. I am sure it was operator error, but I couldn't find the answers in the how to guide.

Aren't those freighter canoes displacement hulls? They are good looking. I just like the speed of a planing hull. If they plane efficiently or you aren't concerned about that, my concern is moot.

As a compromise position regarding the cedar strip idea, consider making the sides and transom of your design out of cedar strip and the bottom out of marine ply. That way you can graphite the bottom without feeling sacrilegious, but it will still look good above the water line and you won't cuss as much when you beat it against oyster bars.

I agree with Firecat regarding the flat bottom idea if it is an option for you. Flat bottoms make it much easier to figure things out as you go. If you generate a good table of offsets and can cut your pieces just right the first time, I guess it isn't a big deal. My hull is going to require some "active adaptation" during the construction process because I am tired of playing on computers, so I appreciate the simplicity of a flat bottom. 

Nate


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

I second the Cedar sides, that is, if you MUST have that look. Now, I'm going to hunt a copy of freeship.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Looking at those lines, tells me the easiest method to define the panels
is going to be by tracing them off of a stringer over frame half-hull.
Only frame one side of the hull, then trace all the panels.
Assembly will be an easy stitch and glue as all panels will match exactly.
Port side panels will be a mirror match to starboard.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

if you decide to go the strip route and especially the ply bottom hybrid approach (which I happen to like for the same reasons stated) and cedar is difficult or expensive to get, you might consider using cypress. 

If you have a table saw or access to one you can make the rough strips yourself from 3/4" boards and save a little money too. A planer would help if you want to mill down to 3/16" thickness, but wasting off 1/4" or 3/16" strips from boards isn't difficult.

In any event I think cypress is a tad heavier than cedar and doesn't smell as good, but the basic working properties are very close for this sort of application. I'm very much considering it for my project. I think I came across a cypress strip canoe online somewhere too. Shouldn't be too hard to google up some examples tho.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Cypress? That's a neat idea. How easy is it to find cypress dimensioned lumber? I thought that stuff was hard to come by, but I can't claim to have ever looked really hard. Many pirogues have unfinished cypress rub rails. The wood takes a beating and don't get brittle with age or water exposure. I've never seen it finished, epoxied and varnished. I'd be curious to see the result.

Nate


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> Cypress?  That's a neat idea.  How easy is it to find cypress dimensioned lumber?  I thought that stuff was hard to come by, but I can't claim to have ever looked really hard.  Many pirogues have unfinished cypress rub rails.  The wood takes a beating and don't get brittle with age or water exposure.  I've never seen it finished, epoxied and varnished.  I'd be curious to see the result.
> 
> Nate


I have a couple of mills near me (Hernando&Pasco county) that I can get rough sawn cypress and there is a lumber yard in Tampa that sells S4S boards in various dimensions. I've never had any trouble getting it, but that may not be true everywhere.

I built all the kitchen and bathroom cabinets in my home with cypress, nothing with a boat yet tho. Considering the strips are being coated with glass and epoxy the wood properties are less critical, but cypress has been used quite a bit. Here's a couple links of cypress strip canoe projects, I'm sure you can dig up more too...

http://valleywoodworking.biz/spettey.htm
http://www.2020site.org/boats/canoe.html


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> Oysterbreath,
> 
> First and foremost, nice boat.
> 
> ...


Thanks Nate. Well, I think freeship is good for generating some simple hull shapes. It does do al of the things that you noted but Rhino does them exponecially better. Sorry for the misspelling! lol Anyway Rhino offers a level of control over creating the developable panels that truely puts freeship or delfship to shame. Freeship doesn't follow the same drafting style that most of the software I use does so Rhino felt more natural to me. I have given thought to the cedar hybrid construction type. I first saw that done by the willard boat people. But being the wishy-washy person that I am. I'm back to focusing on S&G for a while. lol I'm actually thinking about buying the full version of rhino because I'm so impressed with it and how many options you have with panel development. I think the two programs team up pretty well. I don't mind being stuck here in digital design world because..well...that's what I do all day at work anyway. When I start building I want to know that it's been worked out pretty well. My strong point is the digital world. I'm better at that than I am with ply. So I want to use my known talent to simply the thing that I KNOW is my weakness. Ya' dig?
Anyway, I've got a few ideas for some modifications and I will let y'all know how it goes. I have thought through some things and I think I'm going to be cool with the current freeboard but I might make the hull a little wider. I'm trying to find someone with Orca to run the rhino model through some calculations though. We will see. I got to go. I'm out of town on business. I'm tired...


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Oysterbreath,

Focusing on your strengths is sensible. Please don't think I am a great woodworker. Honestly, building the models is good practice for the real thing and I had to do something to convince Brett I wasn't just talking. Freeship had a tendency to make me violent. Us monkeys that have only just come down from the trees use SketchUp. It is a step up from beating stones together, but it lacks some bells and whistles... little unnecessary details like calculating draft, COG, panel developability, generating offsets etc. I guess I'll find out if it is worth a dang once I float it. I did get some pretty pictures! It allowed me to get an idea on "paper" and keep myself amused and it gave me something that was easy to measure, so it isn't useless.

Nate


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

To float shallow, and I mean as shallow as possible,
a flat bottom, hard chine hull is still the best answer.
Any rounding of the chines simply cuts down on displacement.
If you're worried about hull slap, keep the forward chines
below the calculated waterline. Adding vee to the forward
portions of the hull increase curbside appeal, but since
we're talking ultralight planing hulls here, vee along the
bottom of the bow is almost useless. At planing speed
a wave has more mass and inertia than a small skiff.
Acknowledging the fact that hulls plane at an angle of 4 to 6 degrees
from horizontal means the impact point of the waves is
back in the flat planing portion of most modified vee hulls.
So even with the vee the hull slams in a chop.

Look at the contact point of the water at the hull,
and the clearance from the forefoot to water surface...


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I have to agree Brett, the small V up front did nothing for me really. I'm still thinking up my next design, maybe even go with a dory or something.
I wish I knew how to use these programs that let you design the panels and print them out in full size, cause after building my boat I have an idea of a few different boats I'd like to build but the panels will be a pain.
Is rhino or whatever it is free? got a virus free link?


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## pole_position (Dec 5, 2009)

Ther is a place outside Bunnel ,,, like south west ,,, Trying to remember , but you can get cypress right from the sawmill,sorry, I'm going back more than 30 years! :-[


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> I have to agree Brett, the small V up front did nothing for me really. I'm still thinking up my next design, maybe even go with a dory or something.
> I wish I knew how to use these programs that let you design the panels and print them out in full size, cause after building my boat I have an idea of a few different boats I'd like to build but the panels will be a pain.
> Is rhino or whatever it is free? got a virus free link?


There is a trial version of rhino. It gives you 30 saves which is more than enough if you already have some CAD skills. However, if freeship was a challenge then rhino might be a bit overwelming. For me it was easier only because it is very similar to autoCAD which I have been using for...umm... 10 years.

Brett, thanks for all the commentary. It is always super valuable! Thanks

My lil skiff doesn't have much Vee upfront. Basically what Vee is there is purely a result for the union of 4 panels. I will modify a version of my small skiff for no vee also.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

I have a quick question. Why 15 ft? I am not being critical, just curious. Have you got it figured so that your longest panel is 16 ft or is there some other consideration at work? My "16 ft because I want it to be 16 ft" approach requires the side panels to be 16-plus-just-enough-to-be-annoying ft long. I am still dead set on a 16 ft boat, but that is because I am an idiot.

Nate


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I built my 15' +/- skiff cause thats what would fit in my garage once I added the motor and trailer.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> I built my 15' +/- skiff cause thats what would fit in my garage once I added the motor and trailer.


Bingo! That is part of it. Brett is better at explaining the other part. has to do with registration issues with longer custom built boats. Funny thing is...I'm in the process of making the skiff I posted longer. lol
I have another design that will remain less than 16 though. Panel length, storage, and registration codes all play a part. Storage is number one though. Another issue I have to contend with is the fact that I am in the process of buying house too. So I have little clue how much storage space I will have a year from now.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Reasons to keep it under 16 feet long...

Cost of materials gets higher building a larger hull.
Fit in the garage while on trailer with motor on transom.
In Florida, anything home built under 16 feet long,
does not require an inspection by a FWC officer.
Annual registration fees get higher, the longer the hull.
And, when you scarf joint 2 sheets of 4x8 plywood,
the final glue up is less than 16 feet long, due to the overlap.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> And, when you scarf joint 2 sheets of 4x8 plywood,
> the final glue up is less than 16 feet long, due to the overlap.


HMMM, well, now that you brought up SCARF JOINTS. What is the best way to do them? I was at first going to do a butt joint the way that it's done on the Bateau site but I think a true scarf joint would make for a much stronger joint.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> Scarf Joints. What is the best way to do them?


After creating 5 or 6 pieces of wavy edged firewood, out of scrap plywood using a block plane and belt sander,
I bought an electric planer. Then using the planer's edge guide
and a strip of spacer lumber, figured out how to make a clean scarf joint.










The plywood to be scarfed was aligned to the edge of the construction base,
then a panel of 1/4 inch plywood was placed atop the work piece to set the cut angle,
with it's edge parallel to the area to be cut and 1/2 inch back
from the cutting blades of the planer. It takes a bit of practice to do it right.











A scarfing jig is a better method, takes time to build it, but produces a cleaner joint.
The method I described produced good enough results.










Scarfing jig using a circular saw...

http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/stitchglue/plyshophtm/scarfjig2.htm


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Bateau uses another type of joint other than butt blocks. I just looked it up in Bateau's How To section of the forum under "how to make a long panel". The second joint they use is a fiberglass splice. They don't bevel the edges at all and it appears they only tape the inside. That will make fairing the outside easier and the inside is hidden most of the time.

Scarfs are probably easier to fair if you can cut them. If your hull will be unpainted, I suspect they would look better and they should bend more consistently in the tighter curves than either the butt block or fiberglass splice. From what I've read, they are a lot more work and they don't make a stonger joint.

Nate


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> Bateau uses another type of joint other than butt blocks.  I just looked it up in Bateau's How To section of the forum under "how to make a long panel".  The second joint they use is a fiberglass splice. They don't bevel the edges at all and it appears they only tape the inside.  That will make fairing the outside easier and the inside is hidden most of the time.
> 
> Scarfs are probably easier to fair if you can cut them.  If your hull will be unpainted, I suspect they would look better and they should bend more consistently in the tighter curves than either the butt block or fiberglass splice.  From what I've read, they are a lot more work and they don't make a stonger joint.
> 
> Nate


Yeah, I've been on Bateau also and have read most of the threads there concerning Jaquies's recommended butt-joint. I might go that route but I still wanted to ask the question because scarf joints are still appealing. OK, here is another ringer. I've been working on a slightly wider skiff and now I'm curious about sponsons. The mini jack plate I plan to use is 17" wide so my thought is that if I go with sponsons I will need a recessed transom width of about 18". How do I set the depth? Is there some magic formula? I'll be reserching this one too. Thanks


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I used simple butt joints on my skiff with glass on both sides, I have no doubt that another area would fail before the joint, it was rock solid.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Scarf joints are old school, used before high strength adhesives.
My reason for using them in my build was to learn the technique.
In a world of molded reinforced plastics, old skills are fun to learn.
Besides, I knew a gent who swore that one day all the plastic boats
were going to disintegrate, and he'd have the only sailboat left afloat.

;D


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## Conch_and_Cracker (Apr 16, 2010)

A scarf joint should be measured and cut 1ft length to 1 inch thickness easiest way
measure back on ply the length say 1 in ply would measure back 1 ft draw a line set second sheet ply at that mark measure back on top plywood the length and draw line
So now you have 2 sheets of ply one on top the other with a 2 ft set back and 2 in thickness
now plane with power planer from back line to front edge of bottom plywood so now you have a 2ft x 2in angle. turn top pc of ply over and align the angles glue and screw removing the screws after glue dries


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## Conch_and_Cracker (Apr 16, 2010)

those pics you got there are a ship lap joint and not recommended


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

You're right, it's not a 12:1 scarf.
But with epoxy and plywood, the strength difference in a 6:1 and a 12:1 joint
isn't enough to worry about, especially with fiberglass on both sides of the wood.
Throw in the fact that it was my first functional scarf joint, I'm happy with it.

                                                       

 Isn't a ship lap joint created using overlapping rabbets?   :-?


My primary reason for using a scarf joint, was to create a cockpit sole
that would rinse clean without having to push wash water and dirt over a butt block.


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## Conch_and_Cracker (Apr 16, 2010)

Looks good but the entry is a little soft, will be a rough ride in a chop.
Make sure that your butt lines are a straight as possible and they don't hawg on you when apply torque from motor


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## Conch_and_Cracker (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm just giving an opinion from a wooden boat builder.
Looks like your already committed to the 6:1 hope you put a block behind it


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

> I'm just giving an opinion from a wooden boat builder.
> Looks like your already committed to the 6:1 hope you put a block behind it





> Looks good but the entry is a little soft, will be a rough ride in a chop.
> Make sure that your butt lines are a straight as possible and they don't hawg on you when apply torque from motor


LMAO, Brett's boat is done. I was catching fish on it with him this morning. The soft entry and no Vee are for the purpose of truly shallow draft. Check out the thread "starting from Scratch" to see his build. 

Welcome to the forum, and I'll take an Ice Coffee. ;D


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> I'm just giving an opinion from a wooden boat builder.
> Looks like your already committed to the 6:1 hope you put a block behind it


Yeah, that last pic posted by Brett is his boat not mine. What exactly is a "soft" entry. I'm not sure I really under stand the term. I don't mind comments from boat builders at all. Infact wish there were more.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

For "soft entry" insert "vee".
Not really needed when your area to play in looks like this...










But if you travel open water a vee makes the ride much more comfortable.
Doesn't do me any good, more vee means more draft.
I'm a flats fisherman, if it ain't flat I ain't going!


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## Conch_and_Cracker (Apr 16, 2010)

Soft entry is at the forefoot, Curve where bottom meets the stem, If you would have help your chine a little higher in the forward end you would have created a sharper entry which in turns breaks the wave as your cruzn does not create any more draft at rest or on plane. And It ain't all smooth water, got get there across some open bay.

Brett I'm not beating you up man hey congrats to you for even trying but better yet succeeding. Sorry just joined here and saw the thread at scarf joints. I will go back at the beginning But I ask and I'm sure it's covered but what HP did you decide on her?


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> Soft entry is at the forefoot, Curve where bottom meets the stem, If you would have help your chine a little higher in the forward end you would have created a sharper entry which in turns breaks the wave as your cruzn does not create any more draft at rest or on plane. And It ain't all smooth water, got get there across some open bay.
> 
> Brett I'm not beating you up man hey congrats to you for even trying but better yet  succeeding. Sorry just joined here and saw the thread at scarf joints. I will go back at the beginning But I ask and I'm sure it's covered but what HP did you decide on her?


Good point. As for me, this lil craft is a flats fishing craft. I ain't trying to run more than 20mph though.
I DO appreciate the comments though. I titled this thread "Amateur" for a good reason! lol


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> Brett I'm not beating you up man hey congrats to you for even trying but better yet succeeding. Sorry just joined here and saw the thread at scarf joints. I will go back at the beginning But I ask and I'm sure it's covered but what HP did you decide on her?


No worries CandC, I'm always willing to take a bit of constructive criticism.
I'm an amateur and know it. I learned young, never argue with a professional.
Calculations allow 15 hp max on my skiff,
but you'd be surprised what a 4 stroke 5 hp Nissan can do with a little tweaking.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

What I learned from years of boating, is that everyone has their
own idea of the perfect boat. It depends on how and where they use the boat.

If you are going to build...

1) Figure out what you are going to use the boat for
2) Where you are going to use it
3) Sea conditions in the area of use
4) What you plan to carry in it
5) The number of passengers it needs to carry
6) Where you are going to store the boat
7) The tow vehicle

Then build to fit the parameters.
Everyone has different needs, so build the boat you want.
The one that fits what you do. Not someone else's idea of the perfect boat.

In my case the parameters were these:

1) Fishing and exploring extremely skinny water
2) Creeks and tidal flats in a wind protected estuary
3) 8 inch chop, boat wakes, water depths ranging from
dry land and scraping oysters, to crossing the ICW.
4) Fishing tackle, gear, food and drink for 4 hours
5) 1 person most of the time, 2 people the rest.
6) Garage, 20 feet length of hull and trailer
7) Small v6 manual shift pickup

The Grass Slipper fits these parameters.
I would not use her for crossing any deep open water.
And any kind of vee, keel or "softening" would cause me problems in the creeks,
as it would cause me difficulty is crossing the oyster bars that are found there.
I regularly slide the Slipper over exposed sand bars
and the totally flat bottom acts like a skimboard,
sliding over the bar on a skin of water trapped between the hull and the sand.
For some reason, I seem to forget that the tide changes.
And to keep her lightweight, a 54 lb outboard gets her the short distance
from the ramp to the creeks, as shown below.
No need for speed when idling a thousand feet to the fishing hole.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

I spent the last day revisiting a couple previous designs of mine. More simple than the one I posted. Something a little more Freight canoe like. Bench seats, small poling platform and a modest casting deck. 16' long 44" max width at waterline. More function than flair. 1" deadrise, little flair midship but a bit more up front.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Any plots of your new design?


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> Any plots of your new design?


Here is the simplist of the lil designs I'm working on.
This one is just the hull. I'm not showing the seating and forward deck. It's in flux. The width dimensions are at the water line.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

Here is another one that is sim. to the canoe above. This one has a flat bottom and modified chin that I believe will help deflect water spray. Not sure yet. it might have to be reangled. it's all hypothetical voodoo! lol I'm cought between flat bottom and 1-2" deadrise.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Decisions, decisions, decisions.   

Figure it out, get it right.
Took me 6 months of full scale models before I could decide.
Good thing door skins are cheap. That and cardboard and duct tape!


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> Decisions, decisions, decisions.
> 
> Figure it out, get it right.
> Took me 6 months of full scale models before I could decide.
> Good thing door skins are cheap. That and cardboard and duct tape!



Yeah, the more and more I think about it the more SIMPLE I feel I should go. I have some ideas...


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## jem (Jan 22, 2007)

nice looking designs.


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## Guest (May 23, 2010)

> nice looking designs.


Well look who came out of the woodwork. 

Pardon he pun. :-[


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> > nice looking designs.
> 
> 
> Well look who came out of the *woodwork*.
> ...


LOL that would be "plywood work!" lol


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

Dang, all this seemed sooooooo long ago now that I'm building the Osprey. Don't know HOW I stumbled back onto this one. LOL


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