# FS18 "Lodge Style"



## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

I have scrapped the idea of extending the Classic Gheenoe per some very good info/advice from a lot of you.

My mind is turning and now I'm thinking of going the route of an FS18 design, but very simple. Basic FS18 hull *(Lodge Style)*, longer front deck with more flair, rear deck, poling platform, casting platform, grab bar, center cooler. Open oval opening in front deck like "G-Men", with the one hatch for the rear deck. Basic electrical: battery, Navigation lights, bilge pump, JP, A/C out-let, LEDs etc...........with a 6 gallon tank up front. Maybe trim tabs if needed?

I guess a mix of designs I like from the Gladesmen only a little wider while keeping the weight under 200lbs. or so. The Mercury 15hp 2 stroke, electric JP and other stuff already on my Gheenoe would then be used on this boat.

How does this sound? Would I then gain the things I'm looking for over the Gheenoe Classic I have? Like less draft, less hull slap, better ride? 

Need lots of input


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Input input input input input input input input input
Input input input input input input input input input
Input input input input input input input input input
Input input input input input input input input input
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Input input input input input input input input input
Input input input input input input input input input

There, you got what you asked for! Lotsa input.   [smiley=happy.gif]

Or you can do like I did.
Buy 4 sheets of cheap 1/4 luan.
Apply zip screws, duct tape and some imagination.
Build a few 1/3 scale models.
I took about 6 months before building the Slipper
to figure out what I could and could not do with plywood.
I made over 40 different revisions to my first hull shape.
First it was narrower, then shorter, then lowered the freeboard.
Rearranged the interior, framing, decks, storage.
Spent a lot of time on line stealing...err...researching other designs.
Don't build your first idea, get a shape you like, then think about it a few more days.
Build a few models and then post the pics for us to see.
You're about to invest 6 months of your life, you don't want it to be wasted.
Especially when a couple days of model building is cheap entertainment.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Have you seen some of the build threads on the FS18?  If not, here are a few links.

http://www.wetconcepts.com/FS18.htm  Bob is around here somewhere but have not heard much from him lately.

http://flatsstalker18.blogspot.com/

http://www.teamsouthbound.com/pictureprocessor/galleries/usergallery.asp?gallery=444&offset=0 Pictures of an FS18 build

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=16324&highlight=fs18  Model pictures from our Austrian member Cracka

I have not heard much from those who have built the FS18's.  I don't know if that is good or bad, but Josh/Flaff put his up for sale not too long after he finished the build.  Again not saying anything bad about the FS18's, it just seems odd.  I love the lines of the boats and the builders did a fantastic job!

Hopefully Bob or Josh will chime in with their experience.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

Gramps,

I have PM'ed Josh with some of those very questions!

I have a feeling that like the ECC Gladesmen, some who have built the FS18 did not expect it's limited niche in the fishing world. I remember that Josh posted that the hull was not working out due to the places he fishes and not the design.

That being said, I will as always take your advice Brett and not rush to making a final design, but I think that the FS18 hull is what I want and would change the topside decks and such. I need to lurk on as many boat forums as I can! ;D

Basically, I would fish this boat in the same areas I fish the Gheenoe. The Lagoon, IRL, Banana River, and The Everglades etc...........if the conditions are not good I just won't go out.


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

You're not gonna get an FS18 hull to be 200 lbs or less. Try 300+ and that's if you are an excellent hand laminator. All the other stuff you're gonna add will negate pretty much all the extra effort of weight reduction on building a hull. A 15 HP *might* get the hull up to 20 mph. I regularly get 24-25 mph with a 20 HP when alone. Add another person and I lose 2 -3 mph.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I spent alot of time designing my boat and when building I spent even more time on trial and error because of it. It was great to design and build my own boat but I wish I saved that for my second attempt. I think the fs18 is a good boat and will be great in those areas. A word of caution thought, I wouldn't deviate from the plans to much when it comes to the hull. Do whatever you want with the decks but the hull itself is proven and computer designed to do it's job well. 
The best advise I can give is think your design through carefully and test fit everything. If I didn't add the floating floor and pipe chases I would have been in misery trying to get the wires and fuel lines squared away.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

> You're not gonna get an FS18 hull to be 200 lbs or less.  Try 300+ and that's if you are an excellent hand laminator.  All the other stuff you're gonna add will negate pretty much all the extra effort of weight reduction on building a hull.  A 15 HP *might* get the hull up to 20 mph.  I regularly get 24-25 mph with a 20 HP when alone.  Add another person and I lose 2 -3 mph.


Bob,

In no way I'm I an "excellent hand lamitator" as I barely know *** I'm doing. The FS18 build sheet says that with-out decks you could achieve 160lbs.

The FS18 you made is very, very nice! IMO, the nicest fit and finish of any out there, but also on the very heavy side. All of that Sea Deck might add up to 50lbs of extra weight.  IMO, if I was going to go your route I would just buy an ECC Caimen (not going to happen right now) hence this project. What I want is an FS18 that is simple, but very functional. 

Like I said: Bare FS18 hull! A simple 6' or so front deck that maybe has an overhang of about 6". Rear could be as simple as my Gheenoe. Add a polling platform, motor, JP and basic electrical. The image I have is this simple lay-out, but with a different hull. Tan/Sparta hull with light tan inside.

Here is my Gheenoe:



http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/redfish775/IMG_7305.jpg?t=1264293009


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## Bob (Feb 2, 2007)

Your weight estimations for an FS18 are still unrealistic in my opinion.  But does it really matter if it weighs 300#?  It will draft probably 1/2" deeper (or less) with that extra 100#, is that going to prevent you from getting to any of your fishing spots?  (BTW, at 1100# total weight the fs18 drafts 4") 

If anyone hasn't built a boat before, I would highly recommend you build something with the materials you plan on using before committing the time and money it takes to start & finish an FS18 or similar hull.  

There are a lot of kayaks & canoes that use the exact same building method.  Try all of your weight saving ideas out on them, gain valuable laminating & building experience, & then compare your results to the designer's weight specs.  

If you enjoyed the smaller project, then a bigger boat has a much higher probability of actually being finished.  If you thought the process sucked and/or your results were less than you expected, chances are that a larger hull project will never see the water.

You're more than welcome to measure the draft of my heavy, heavy boat with the 50#'s of Seadek anytime.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

> Your weight estimations for an FS18 are still unrealistic in my opinion.  But does it really matter if it weighs 300#?  It will draft probably 1/2" deeper (or less) with that extra 100#, is that going to prevent you from getting to any of your fishing spots?  (BTW, at 1100# total weight the fs18 drafts 4")
> 
> If anyone hasn't built a boat before, I would highly recommend you build something with the materials you plan on using before committing the time and money it takes to start & finish an FS18 or similar hull.
> 
> ...



Bob,

I was not bashing your boat by any means! I was simply answering your statement that it's easy to reduce weight when "Less is more". 

Lets be nice!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Bob is right. If you are a phenominal laminator you will shave in the neighborhood of 15lbs off the weight. Add the deck and you've negated that savings and added significant weight. Using foam for the deck and you could shave a few extra pound off but that is because your wallet would be empty. 

The fact is that when you are building something this small there just are not many ways to shave weight and still have a safe vessel. That's just the way it is. The people who designed that boat know and understand what the builders desires in a boat of this style and design a safe vessel to be a useful to the builder.

The concept of a 20' boat weighing 100lbs floating in 1" of water propelled at 35mph while getting 40mpg is on the shelf right next to the perpetual machine.

Build it according to specs and IF it only floats in 4" of water weighing in at 1,100lbs then you have built it properly. 

Take a poll of how many boats on here flost in less than 4" while weighing 1,100lbs.


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## JoshW (Mar 17, 2007)

200 lb FS18 is a pipe dream, regardless of what the plans say. Take it from the guys that have actually built the hull, rather than those who have just "built" it on a computer. Unless you really want to -build- a boat I'd suggest finding a different option. Building a boat will be neither cheaper, nor easier. Boat building is about the journey, not the destination.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I see no reason why a bare hull couldn't weigh under 200lbs. 

My boat hull with out the decks, live well, electronics..... weighed so little I could easily lift a side with one hand, and then after it was finished and fell off the trailer  it only took 4 guys to lift the boat up and put it back on even with the motor and gas tank.....

Now once you add all that stuff you are talking about you no longer have a light, or simple boat. basically the only thing you haven't listed in your plans is a console with remote steering. I'd say 350lbs with no motor is a reasonable goal. 15hp 2 stroke is what? maybe 120lbs with the jack plate so you are at 470lbs. so if you loadedit up with another 630lbs of fat fishermen and gear you're still only drafting 4 inches. thats not bad at all. I had me (235lbs), and 2 buddies (230lbs and 250lbs) fishing last week on my boat with a full cooler and livewell and we were drafting about 6 inches in the rear, which was still shallow enough to drift the shallow flats at Ft. D.


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## JoshW (Mar 17, 2007)

I see a very good reason why a bare hull won't weigh 200lbs-MATH! ;D

Using the best quality/lightest marine plywood out there, the bare bones FS18 uses 5 sheets of 1/4" and 3 sheets of 3/8" which in total weigh 190lbs.  There is very little waste in the nesting of the pieces on the plywood, I'd say easily less than 20lbs total.  Thats just the plywood, mind you, doesn't include the roughly 60lbs worth of epoxy that the basic boat requires (anything less than a near professional won't get the boat built with 6 gallons)  Mine took about 9.  Right there you're at 250lbs in materials, and thats for a very basic hull with smaller decks and NO floor, NO walkable gunnels etc. That weight also does not include the weight of the actual fiberglass cloth, of which there is a considerable amount.  
No such animal as a 200lb FS18.

Sorry, believe me, I wish there was.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

The only way I can see to building a sub 200 lb hull
is skin over frame construction. A very old technique
that results in an extremely lightweight yet rigid hull.
Do a bit of research and you'll find plenty of information.
The problem is cost. Plywood is cheap compared to
the fiberglass and epoxy needed to cover a hull.
If you're wondering about how tough a hull you get,
think about hunting seals in an ice field from a skin kayak.
Or sailing the North Atlantic from Europe to Newfoundland
in a curragh. Old school vessels that get it done.

There is one problem with an extremely light weight hull.
Lateral stability, you end up with a very tippy vessel.
Hull weight adds to stability, by keeping the center of
gravity less affected by passenger location. Get too light,
and standing on deck could become a balancing act!


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## natez (Dec 26, 2009)

Build your own boat, tie your own fly, pole solo, and snag a redfish with your fly stick, can you really get any beter than that  Plus building stuff is cool!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

If you wait a couple more weeks you can ask Longrod what his weighs. (build going on now in bragging).


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## zack_attack (Feb 10, 2008)

Bob knows alot about the fs 18. I built mine 3 years ago I did somethings differant would change a few things next time I build this one. It will weight over 300lbs It planes easy I run a 15hp honda 18mph 1 person 2 peopledrops to 14mph I put my 25 yamaha on 1 person 33mph 2 people 26.5
full gear my weight 210lb brother 240lb. any question feel free to call 302-250-1470
Take care 
Jeff


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## shallowfish (Jan 2, 2007)

I don't want to deviate from the purpose of the thread, but other than Hells Bay, does any other commercial builder have a boat with similar specs as the fs18?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

http://www.wayupstream.com/2009/06/micro-skiffs.html


also, research "cargo canoes".


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

There are other options:





























http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/nichols/laker/index.htm



You might also want to look at some of the strip freight canoes if you want something more like a gheenoe NMZ in size and performance.









http://www.sandypointboatworks.com/mini_mo_freighter_canoe.html









http://www.compumarine.com/fisherman.htm









http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcanoe.htm#MOTO


I personally recently picked up some plans for the Mini mo. In a recent Wooden boats article they built a stripper with 20oz fiber so they could handle Oyster bar beachings. Not a bad idea but it'll make for a heavy craft.


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## gnuraider (Nov 4, 2008)

that duckworks skiff is pretty sweet!


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

Some of those other designs are sweet, but I have had an obsession with the Hell's Bay Glades Skiff for years now! When "Capt. Ron" was selling his 2005 Glades Skiff I was going nuts!  My wife and I have had a deal since we moved here a few years ago Fairfax VA) Baby = Very Nice Skiff! That deal has yet to be completed, but believe me I was trying!    Then was forced to watch someone else buy it. Used ones don't really ever come up so this FS18 should be the next best thing. BTW, anyone have an idea how many Glades Skiff's were sold before the new owner took over?

$22,000 for a Glades Skiff with trailer and power is not practical for me or most, but a clone of one that's 1/6 th or so the price is. Not to mention in the future I'll also being looking at a Panga 18' or 20' Skiff (IMO, the best all around skiff for the $$$$) to cover other types of fishing/Diving I do. I have my bases covered!

*So in the next few weeks I'll be selling my "Modified Classic Gheenoe" to fund this venture. So for all the posters that commented not to "cut up that beautiful boat" here is your chance to have it!*
;D

*Link to the Build* 

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1245883577

I have added/changed some things so I will update pictures when I getting closer to selling.


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

> Plus building stuff is cool!


'Nuff said!

I pondered the FS18 in great detail for a long time. I also spent hours staring at the SC16 and FS14. What I decided finally was that each one of those would be a compromise of some sort. I had a vision of what I wanted, and followed Brett's advise to build some models. A sheet of luan is $10, and at 1/2 scale, equals 4 sheets, for comparison. 

You have an idea of the skiff you like, start experimenting with real wood and see how close you can get to that design. Then scale it up, and go full size.

You're close by, feel free to come by and see mine sometime.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> I pondered the FS18 in great detail for a long time.  I also spent hours staring at the SC16 and FS14.  What I decided finally was that each one of those would be a compromise of some sort.  I had a vision of what I wanted, and followed Brett's advise to build some models.  A sheet of luan is $10, and at 1/2 scale, equals 4 sheets, for comparison.
> 
> You have an idea of the skiff you like, start experimenting with real wood and see how close you can get to that design.  Then scale it up, and go full size.


I'm going through the same thing...The FS18 was the closest thing to what I want, however it is too long, to high at the sheer, and I can't get over that narrow transome. Looks like a pulling hull converted for poling! I bought the plans anyway! I mean, don't get me wrong...it's still a GREAT design! So I've been searching and buying plans. My latest set of plans is the mini mo. Now, I kinda want to buy the Robb White Sport boat plans just for S& Giggles! The best little stitch and glueskiff design that I've seen thus far was Doug's Skiff 18 but those plans are NOT for sale! Besides...even that was 18 foot! So I have to agree...time to buy some wood and play around!


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

> that duckworks skiff is pretty sweet!


They also have a 14 foot version of that boat too.


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## copperhead (May 30, 2008)

Oyster,

Saw your post about Robb White's sport. I knew Robb briefly before his untimely passing. A friend from 'way back' has the last sport that Robb built, which my friend had commissioned. It really is the real deal. I personally have a set of plans and will one day build my own with kevlar/carbon, if not just for giggles, but really out of respect for Robb. Its one of those few designs that while it looks simple, he hit on perfection with the dimensions....


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## scottmills (Mar 25, 2009)

You may want to checkout my thread- "Homemade technical poling skiff" This could give you some ideas, its similar to what you may be looking for. I run a 15hp 2 stroke and with two people run 27mph with those cheap alum props. Floats in a true 3.5" with two anglers. Only complaint is little hull slap directly into the wind, i just try to go in at an angle or with wind when possible. Our Reds are not spooky. Keep it simple, no battery or other BS, D battery nav lights if you are determined to be legal at night. I also posted a video. Good luck.


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## oysterbreath (Jan 13, 2009)

WOW! It must have been a great pleasure to meet Robb. If his conversation was reflective of his writing then you surely had a ball! To date I have only seen ONE of his actual sportboat builds. It was the blue one with red trim, and brass hardware. My favorite Robb sportboat ofcourse is the "bright" one that was built by the Tenn. shop class. I have read much about his sportboat but have never heard anything about it's stability other than, "It's more stable than the original gruman!" I thought about buying the plans but since I have so little technical data I forced myself not to. I think very highly of Robb. His sportboat does indeed seem to be the ideal size for the needs of many including myself. Well, depending on it's stability...

So what more do you know about the sportboat?



> Oyster,
> 
> Saw your post about Robb White's sport.  I knew Robb briefly before his untimely passing.  A friend from 'way back' has the last sport that Robb built, which my friend had commissioned.  It really is the real deal.  I personally have a set of plans and will one day build my own with kevlar/carbon, if not just for giggles, but really out of respect for Robb.  Its one of those few designs that while it looks simple, he hit on perfection with the dimensions....


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