# Global Warming and Vanishing Flounder!



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Outdoor magazines are getting to be as bad as CNN, Fox News and other elite owned media sources. You have to love when your local magazine spreads fear porn to scare googans into thinking the sky is falling...way to go! I unsubscribed from this cheesedick magazine for this nonsense. It’s all about the money, not the resource. Must be owned by the Rockefellers and Rothschilds! 

https://fishgame.com/2019/12/vanishing-flounder-january-2020/


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I just skimmed the article, but what makes you skeptical of their claims? We have an issue here on the East Coast (GA/SC/NC) too. Not sure if it's super high commercial catch limits, or bycatch from the shrimp boats along the coast, or just idiots gigging 20 fish per night as often as they can, but our numbers are down.


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

Funny, well not funny but I’ve probably caught more flounder than anything this year. My take is better self regulation recreationally and much stricter commercial regulation and enforcement. I’ve released larger flounder than what I see in the market


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I've read a couple articles about the correlation between cold winters and the increase in flounder population. It takes about two years to see it according to the biologists. There are a lot of other factors that are influencing the decline in the flounder population so I don't think you can pin it on one thing. If it is indeed global warming, well there isn't anything we can do about the weather so it just is what it is. The only factor we can directly control is harvest limits. Personally, I'd like to think that the changes Texas Parks and Wildlife made to the flounder rules a few years back are starting to show positive signs, at least where I fish. I have caught way more flounder this year than in the last 3 years. Even poling the flats this Fall, I've seen way more flounder.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

GaG8tor said:


> Funny, well not funny but I’ve probably caught more flounder than anything this year. My take is better self regulation recreationally and much stricter commercial regulation and enforcement. I’ve released larger flounder than what I see in the market


But how when they are vanishing and the Gulf of Mexico is getting too hot for the fry to survive the trip back to the bays...? If this is true then why not regulate the whole gulf coast? 
It’s a joke. Yeah I agree that commercial gigging is an issue when you have guys allowed to gig 30 flounder a night per person and 3-4 guys on a boat sticking them night after night. These people DID NOT GET SURVEYED even though they take more flounder than any group. Even gigging guides didn’t see a single TPWD member surveying them in the middle of the night while they cleaned full limits. It reminds me of the red snapper regulations just a season ago when they said red snapper were endangered when there was absolutely no shortage. 
TPWD relied on surveying rod and reel fisherman at the cleaning table knowing full well that not many people target flounder year round with rod and reel. If they caught any on lures they were bycatch while fishing for trout and redfish. Skewed data. Gill nets and trawls are obsolete methods with the technology available these days that don’t require killing the sample fish!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

jay.bush1434 said:


> I've read a couple articles about the correlation between cold winters and the increase in flounder population. It takes about two years to see it according to the biologists. There are a lot of other factors that are influencing the decline in the flounder population so I don't think you can pin it on one thing. If it is indeed global warming, well there isn't anything we can do about the weather so it just is what it is. The only factor we can directly control is harvest limits. Personally, I'd like to think that the changes Texas Parks and Wildlife made to the flounder rules a few years back are starting to show positive signs, at least where I fish. I have caught way more flounder this year than in the last 3 years. Even poling the flats this Fall, I've seen way more flounder.


What about all the illegals, poachers and even legal fishermen that only target flounder at the passes with rod and reel each Fall during the big females headed offshore to spawn? Shut them down if they are harvesting the mature females that are headed offshore to reproduce? I’ve never noticed a shortage of flounder just a surplus of people on the water not catching anything but a buzz and a sunburn while they burn shorelines and soak bait. 
We shall see what they decide, I know their minds were made up and regulations were ready to be set in place well before the scoping meetings they held recently.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What about all the illegals, poachers and even legal fishermen that only target flounder at the passes with rod and reel each Fall during the big females headed offshore to spawn? Shut them down if they are harvesting the mature females that are headed offshore to reproduce? I’ve never noticed a shortage of flounder just a surplus of people on the water not catching anything but a buzz and a sunburn while they burn shorelines and soak bait.
> We shall see what they decide, I know their minds were made up and regulations were ready to be set in place well before the scoping meetings they held recently.


All true Smack. I wasn't going to address stupid people but the mentality of "oh the fish I keep won't make a difference" and all the ridiculous hero shots of a couple limits of fish all strung up to show how good of a fisherman you are are major factors in the declining fish stocks. How do you educate people into understanding that they don't have to keep everything they catch? Of course this only impacts people who are going to obey the law anyway...


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

bryson said:


> I just skimmed the article, but what makes you skeptical of their claims? We have an issue here on the East Coast (GA/SC/NC) too. Not sure if it's super high commercial catch limits, or bycatch from the shrimp boats along the coast, or just idiots gigging 20 fish per night as often as they can, but our numbers are down.


Oh no
Here we go


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

bryson said:


> I just skimmed the article, but what makes you skeptical of their claims? We have an issue here on the East Coast (GA/SC/NC) too. Not sure if it's super high commercial catch limits, or bycatch from the shrimp boats along the coast, or just idiots gigging 20 fish per night as often as they can, but our numbers are down.


Because I like to use my brain and question things instead of taking “professionals” word for everything. It’s what humans are supposed to do but seems that the masses like being controlled. I like to do my research to develop my own opinion based on facts. If you think these organizations aren’t able to be swayed by money you are sadly mistaken. 
I have seen the shenanigans with red snapper. Research that little shit show and you might understand why I’m skeptical of their decades obsolete data collection methods.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

One thing that’s really gotten much better in the time frame of the declining flounder population are flounder lights. Lots of individuals and guides out at night running really good set ups and sticking a lot of fish. I don’t think there were so many quality flounder lights way back when and so many people out running with them. 

Jantzen Miller here in Texas is a fisherman that targets flounder and has a lot of success. He’s been involved in flounder tagging and has posted now and then on local forum boards. I don’t get a sense from his posts things are worse than they were several years ago. 

My buddy that’s fished East Matagorda bay over the years said it was once amazing for flounder, then things got pretty bad and now things are getting better over the last few years. 

I have seen flounder out where I fish over the years and manage to catch a few. I saw a ton this fall, more 12” fish than anything. Males that size are mostly offshore or so I’ve read. But the flounder seem to be in the places I’ve found them in past years in about the same numbers. 

There is this easy way out in the media to ascribe any perceived negative condition or change of status automatically to manmade climate change. Any big tornado, hurricane, snowstorm, flood now is with out a doubt 100 percent linked to human induced climate change. Big storms and floods have always been around. 

Flora and fauna on the earth and in the sea have always waxed and waned, with some going extinct well before people appeared on the scene. 

If the climate is changing and is directly linked to the flounder decline, then there isn’t much anyone can do about. As if we can snap our fingers and suddenly transition to non-carbon emitting power sources. Isn’t going to happen and can’t possibly happen quickly enough to make a difference for decades, if it is the science is correct, at the earliest. There’s so much deception in the rhetoric on climate.

All we can do is mess with the limits and sizes and seasons on flounder. I’m not going to go berserk if Texas drops the 5 flounder to 2 year around. It’s a rare day I get more than 2 keepers anyway. Or closes November and December to all flounder harvest. I certainly won’t be upset if the commercials get cut out of the equation completely as I see inshore saltwater fish belonging to the all of the people of Texas and not commercial interests. 

I’m still going to fish if it’s all catch and release, but let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Because I like to use my brain and question things instead of taking “professionals” word for everything. It’s what humans are supposed to do but seems that the masses like being controlled. I like to do my research to develop my own opinion based on facts. If you think these organizations aren’t able to be swayed by money you are sadly mistaken.
> I have seen the shenanigans with red snapper. Research that little shit show and you might understand why I’m skeptical of their decades obsolete data collection methods.


Sorry, let me clarify. What specifically makes you question this data? Personal catch log? Anecdotal evidence from other anglers?


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

bryson said:


> Sorry, let me clarify. What specifically makes you question this data? Personal catch log? Anecdotal evidence from other anglers?


I’d say it’s probably the words “global warming”


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

bryson said:


> Sorry, let me clarify. What specifically makes you question this data? Personal catch log? Anecdotal evidence from other anglers?


Both yes and history tends to repeat itself.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

flounder pop seems strong here in Jacksonville but a 10 fish limit starting at 12" is a bit ridiculous


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

climate has changed probably 100 or 1000 times during the existence of flounder, im sure they will be fine in the end


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

I would unsubscribe to this magazine as well because they use Celsius degrees to measure the water. This is America damnit! Speak English.

Maybe they should just stop gigging.


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## SymmFish (Aug 28, 2018)

Gigging seems to be the biggest issue. They take way to many.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Gigging is not the issue. There is no shortage of flounder and false data collection is the issue!


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

But has Texas changed the methodology for data collection? I’ve read about how the gill net surveys aren’t very good at picking up flounder, but if the nets have been set out the same way for 40 years by TP&W wouldn’t that be a consistently way of looking at the population? Say the nets miss 90 percent of the fish, wouldn’t the nets miss about the same percentage with each survey, year after year? Same story for the offshore purse net surveys. 

And why would other areas be showing the same downward trend on flounder population? 

Are all the states with southern flounder suddenly doing bad, erroneous surveys? That seems unlikely. 

I see as many flounder as ever on my trips out in the marsh, bays and other estuaries, but does that mean my numbers are as good as any State with their vast resources and abilities? 

Are the various States all in collusion to skew the data to falsely show a decrease in flounder? How could they all make the same “errors” in one direction without it being some sort of massive conspiracy?


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

[QUOTE="I see as many flounder as ever on my trips out in the marsh, bays and other estuaries, but does that mean my numbers are as good as any State with their vast resources and abilities?
[/QUOTE]

I believe that a good fisherman is much more in touch with his fishery than most scientists. Ive been fishing the same waters in a very serious manner for decades and have seen fish species trend up and down. 

Ive run across scientists at boat ramps, taking catch surveys and I have seen the boats full of 20 something year old kids netting fish but its painstakingly obvious to me that they are not getting the full picture. I wish scientists would start going on ride alongs with truly skilled fisherman in their local areas. We could teach them a lot about the fishery that they probably are not aware of.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Read

[URL]https://www.gsmfc.org/publications/GSMFC%20Number%20247.pdf


https://tpwmagazine.com/archive/2012/jun/ed_2_flounder/index.phtml
[/URL]
https://www.victoriaadvocate.com/ne...cle_a769b004-183b-11ea-bdb2-eb8bfbda2825.html
https://www.victoriaadvocate.com/ne...cle_a769b004-183b-11ea-bdb2-eb8bfbda2825.html


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

Big Fish said:


> I wish scientists would start going on ride alongs with truly skilled fisherman in their local areas. We could teach them a lot about the fishery that they probably are not aware of.


I know skilled fishermen who have offered ride alongs to researchers re red snapper. These offers were declined. Much easier to support the agenda for closing seasons by sampling on barren, sandy bottoms. Then they can say they're overfished and close the season. Kinda like sampling for black bears at a mall. Red snapper season is open two weekends a year here in NC.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

FlyBy said:


> I know skilled fishermen who have offered ride alongs to researchers re red snapper. These offers were declined. Much easier to support the agenda for closing seasons by sampling on barren, sandy bottoms. Then they can say they're overfished and close the season. Kinda like sampling for black bears at a mall. Red snapper season is open two weekends a year here in NC.


I am with ya on this one. These kids are taught (#brainwashed) in school that the world is ending and that it is their job to do something about it. They get out of school and manipulate data, either on purpose or accidently due to inherent bias, to prove that "the world is ending". Many are not interested in the truth but rather pushing an agenda. They are so obsessed with "fixing things" that they see problems to fix everywhere, even if its not a real problem at all. 

In the end I have a hard time believing that most scientist are truly unbiased when approaching issues like this these days. I guess that's what it all boils down too.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

FlyBy said:


> I know skilled fishermen who have offered ride alongs to researchers re red snapper. These offers were declined. Much easier to support the agenda for closing seasons by sampling on barren, sandy bottoms. Then they can say they're overfished and close the season. Kinda like sampling for black bears at a mall. Red snapper season is open two weekends a year here in NC.


Always rely on the professionals, they know best and have only your best interests in mind! 
Yeah I guess you know about the “endangered” red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico over the last few years? While they were allowing old offshore oil rigs with huge reefs at the bases be blown up in the “Rigs to Reefs” program they were killing red snapper, all sorts of other fish and the reef itself for absolutely no reason other than to remove oil platforms from the gulf. After these explosions there would be miles of dead fish (mainly red snapper) floating on the surface. Federal commercial fishing continued but Texas had just a couple of days a summer snapper season and only 4 fish in state waters and 2 per person in federal waters. We would go out to any of these rigs and you couldn’t drop a bait to the bottom in 50-100 feet without catching a red snapper. After enough hell raising we all of a sudden have the longest season in a decade just a couple of years after they were supposedly in danger. I wonder if the same could be done for flounder? Who knows but I have a hard time trusting such erratic regulations and mindsets.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Fish said:


> I am with ya on this one. These kids are taught (#brainwashed) in school that the world is ending and that it is their job to do something about it. They get out of school and manipulate data, either on purpose or accidently due to inherent bias, to prove that "the world is ending". Many are not interested in the truth but rather pushing an agenda. They are so obsessed with "fixing things" that they see problems to fix everywhere, even if its not a real problem at all.
> 
> In the end I have a hard time believing that most scientist are truly unbiased when approaching issues like this these days. I guess that's what it all boils down too.


It’s called trauma based mind control and it happens to us all the time. Zika, Mad Cow, Y2K, Bird Flu, Anthrax, Global Warming, nuclear weapons etc. Just look at The Weather Channel and all their fear porn. CNN, MSNBC, Google, any of this crap is all about keeping people scared to death to control them. If people would just live and focus on what affects them...
Make sure every time a school girl from overseas with fetal alcohol syndrome tells you the earth is dying you better listen! Maybe Greta can take the reigns at the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and straighten them out!


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> It’s called trauma based mind control and it happens to us all the time. Zika, Mad Cow, Y2K, Bird Flu, Anthrax, Global Warming, nuclear weapons etc. Just look at The Weather Channel and all their fear porn. CNN, MSNBC, Google, any of this crap is all about keeping people scared to death to control them. If people would just live and focus on what affects them...
> Make sure every time a school girl from overseas with fetal alcohol syndrome tells you the earth is dying you better listen! Maybe Greta can take the reigns at the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and straighten them out!


"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it" - Mencken


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Fish said:


> "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it" - Mencken


“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
-Napoleon Bonaparte (actor)


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

Big Fish said:


> [QUOTE="I see as many flounder as ever on my trips out in the marsh, bays and other estuaries, but does that mean my numbers are as good as any State with their vast resources and abilities?


I believe that a good fisherman is much more in touch with his fishery than most scientists. Ive been fishing the same waters in a very serious manner for decades and have seen fish species trend up and down.

Ive run across scientists at boat ramps, taking catch surveys and I have seen the boats full of 20 something year old kids netting fish but its painstakingly obvious to me that they are not getting the full picture. I wish scientists would start going on ride alongs with truly skilled fisherman in their local areas. We could teach them a lot about the fishery that they probably are not aware of.[/QUOTE]
Very well said


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

Mmmmm fried flounder sandwich sounds good right now!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Charles Hadley said:


> Mmmmm fried flounder sandwich sounds good right now!


I’ll be eating one tomorrow evening


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## Derek Radtke (Feb 24, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> It’s called trauma based mind control and it happens to us all the time. Zika, Mad Cow, Y2K, Bird Flu, Anthrax, Global Warming, nuclear weapons etc. Just look at The Weather Channel and all their fear porn. CNN, MSNBC, Google, any of this crap is all about keeping people scared to death to control them. If people would just live and focus on what affects them...
> Make sure every time a school girl from overseas with fetal alcohol syndrome tells you the earth is dying you better listen! Maybe Greta can take the reigns at the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and straighten them out!


How dare you.


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