# loop knots



## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

I hate to say it, but some days any particular person may have a better "touch" over another.  I think that is why someone standing next to you with the same gear can get more grabs.  As far as the loop knot is concerned, they allow a fly/lure/bait to move more freely, this is especially true the stiffer and larger diameter lines are.  This can make a huge difference with some lures and less so with others.  A crankbait needs to be able to wobble, hence the split ring that most come with.  You don't need a loop knot with a split ring since it provides the same function.  A jerk bait will definitely dart better from side to side if you use a loop knot.  A jig and twister tail will drop faster farther if the jig head can swing up.  On the other hand it will dig deeper into grass as well.  No need for a popper to swing back and forth. Etc. Etc.

My favorite version of the loop knot is Harro's adaptation of Lefty's No Slip Loop Knot.  There are two or three versions of Lefy's loop knot.  I like Harro's because I can tie it with my eyes closed when I'm in practice. Harro's (Rod Harrison) version entails tying an overhand knot into your leader 3-6" from the end (depends on how good you are) then reduce the size of the overhand knot keeping it large enough to pass the tag back through later.  Pass the tag end through the hook eye till the over hand knot is butted up against the eye.  Now depending on how thick your line is wrap the tag around the standing end of the line bypassing the overhand knot 8-4 times (thinner = more). Thread the tag back through the over hand knot in the OPPOSITE direction that the standing line enters it.  Moisten knot and snug down but do not tighten with the tag end.  Now tighten with the standing line.  Trim tag but leave proud, it should face down and not snag weeds.  It sounds complicated, but it really is not.  You can vary the size of the loop with the size of the overhand knot.  Knot strength should be in the 98% range.  Just like all loop knots retie often enough that the lures motion does not wear through the line.  For larger diameter shock tippets, I use the Homer/Rhodes Knot.  Tie an overhand knot, pass through eye, pass through overhand knot, tie another overhand knot around standing line, moisten, snug, and then tighten with standing line.  Only about 80% strength, but that 80% should still exceed your main fishing line.

Swamp


----------



## kbuch312 (Feb 17, 2007)

SS,
Great description of the Harro. Have always used the H. Rhodes version.
I learned a new knot today.
thanks.

KMB


----------



## Charlie (Apr 5, 2010)

Swamp Skiff
In the Homer/Rhodes Knot would it increase the strengh of the knot by instead of using two overhand knots you use for the first one a overhand knot with the line passed through the loop three times, passing through the eye of the hook, and then tying a single uni-knot? Just an idea, never tried it myself.


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

It's funny you say this, but for a lure like a MirrOdine, a loop knot is a MUST!

My buddy and I were out fishing.
I had my mirrOdine one with a loop knot.
He has his mirrOdine on with a clinch knot.
I kept catching fish while he didn't.
Finally, he put a loop knot on there and on his first cast caught his first freshwater snook.

It makes a big difference in the action of the lure.
I tie a loop knot on EVERYTHING.

I tie the Rapala knot.


----------



## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

> Swamp Skiff
> In the Homer/Rhodes Knot would it increase the strength of the knot by instead of using two overhand knots you use for the first one a overhand knot with the line passed through the loop three times, passing through the eye of the hook, and then tying a single uni-knot? Just an idea, never tried it myself.


I'd love to give you a definitive answer, but I don't know.  I suspect if you can tie the knot you described in the line, then the line is not to heavy to tie a no slip knot in it and that one tests out so high that I have a lot of confidence in it.  But rule number one is use the knot you can tie best even if others test out better.  I'd rather have a well tied knot any day.  Also, with the no slip knot you only have to pass though the over hand knot once which sounds easier to me.  

An easy way to test knots at home is with a large bar/dowel and a five gallon bucket, the bar needs to be large enough that you don't damage the line when you wrap around it enough times to hold the line securely.  Attach a loop out of wire or heavy mono around the bucket handle to either tie directly to or attach a hook to.  It's better to use a hook, just clip the point and barb off.  Wear safety specs.  Wrap the line around the bar which is held up by whatever, a shop vise works well.  Slowly add water or sand till the line or the knot breaks.  Sand makes less of a mess and is easier to recover.  Weigh bucket and sand.  Repeat over and over till you have enough of a data set to draw reliable conclusions.  I'd do at least 50 tests, 100 would be better, but I'm just a touch compulsive.  Try to keep the starting distance between the bar and bucket constant.  Now do the same thing but "plop" a fixed weight into the bucket once you get close to the determined breaking point, this simulates a fish surging like a tarpon would while jumping.  Repeat, repeat, and repeat.  You can also put a different knot at the bar end and then pit two different knots against each other if you just want to know which is better and don't care what actual breaking strength is.  The other option is to spend a few grand and build a knot tester with force meters and mechanized draw bars for more consistent results.

I hope all of that made sense, I need to head to bed. [smiley=sleep.gif]


----------



## Charlie (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. I'd love to try it, but 50 test runs would take too long! I'll just try it on fish, and if I loose them I won't use it anymore


----------



## saltandson (Apr 21, 2008)

D.O.A. lures used to have a "15 second loop knot" on their site and it's great! Been using it for years. Quick, easy, holds strong! I tie it on on everything you can cast, fly, circle hook, spoon, you name it! Look it up and starting hooking up more frequently with a more life-like presentation!


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I use an improved clinch for just about everything.
Once it's tied, you can leave it as a loop, or snug it to the hook eye.
If left as a loop, and a big fish hits, it'll slide tight to the hook.


----------



## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

I'll take a look at the 15 sec Loop.



> I use an improved clinch for just about everything.
> Once it's tied, you can leave it as a loop, or snug it to the hook eye.
> If left as a loop, and a big fish hits, it'll slide tight to the hook.


Brett, yes it will, and that is why I don't like doing that.  I don't like it when knots slip (or tighten suddenly), I like a controlled tightening.  Most of the results from dedicated testing machines I've seen or talked to people about show that when most knots fail they slip first.  I don't want to encourage slipping. I'm not saying don't do it.  If it works for you and you have confidence in your system, great.  More than one way to skin a cat as it were.  I would caution against it though.

Slightly related, I do tie a loop clinch/improved clinch when using a hopper/popper and dropper fly.  I just slip the loop over the hook bend and then tighten (completely) rather than try and tie directly on the hook.

Swamp


----------



## saltandson (Apr 21, 2008)

Found it in a pdf on the DOA site, I guess it's actually called a canoeman knot.      :-[http://www.doalures.com/uploads/Docs/9102_DOA_10.28__Knot_Page.pdf


----------



## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> I've seen most of yall tie loop knots on your lures. Me and my friend were both casting mirodines at snook and his got bit even though I presented mine better.....could it be the loop knot? Pls share the advantages of a loop knot over a palomar, uni, or even clinch knot, and if you can the best way to tie it??
> 
> -BoneHead


Better in your opinion or the fish's????? 

Loop knots are the way to go for anything that requires wiggle. I also use a loop knot live-baiting with circle hooks.

-T


----------



## shallowfish (Jan 2, 2007)

I use a loop knot which I learned of after it was featured in a Saltwater Sportsman article featuring tarpon fishing in Costa Rica about 10 years ago. It is really simple incorporating just one overhand knot, looping the tag end behind the main line, and then back through the overhand knot before tightening.

I use it for everything from bass to tarpon, and I swear by it.

I've scoured the net for it, but the closest knot I've found to it is the one below:


----------



## backwaterbandits (Dec 15, 2006)

I like the Canoeman Loop Knot...
  Been using it for years...
  www.doalures.com


----------



## orbe12 (Jun 25, 2010)

sure the canoeman knot is easier but easy is not always best...

its looks like its prone to the same slipage as the clinch knot.

which is the strongest loop knot?


----------



## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

I've been using one like the brubaker knot for about 10 years also, but I just do one twist around the mainline like the other poster mentioned. 

I don't think it's as strong a knot as I'd like, but traditionally I fish a heavier leader than my mainline so to me it's a non-issue. 

-T


----------



## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

To answer which loop knot is the strongest, all of the variations of Lefty's no slip loop knots (including Harro's that I described) test out just under 100%.  There may be some that equal it or edge them out by a percent or two but I can tie Harro's well and quickly under adverse conditions.  It also does not "eat" a lot of leader when I tie it which means I don't have to replace my leader as often.

Remember the connection to your fly/lure/hook is only as strong as the weakest link and that may not be at the hook.  

For example: 12# test main line, 40# leader/bite attached to main line with a Bimini Twist and Slim Beauty (over 100% in theory), and a bunch of granny knots to the hook (lets say 40% which is about 16#).  The weakest link is still your main line so the series of granny knots are not a problem.  The granny knots would probably slip and unravel under sustained pressure though.

This means unless you are fishing straight from your main line, you don't need a 100% connection to your hook.  The knot you should usually be worried about is your mainline to leader connection when you use a leader.

BTW if you double your line with a Bimini Twist and the use any 60% knot to connect both legs of the Bimini to you leader, you have a 120% connection (60% from EACH leg).

I still say the best knot is the one you have practiced enough that you can tie it CORRECTLY, quickly, in the dark, on a pitching deck with fish breaking all around you!   The "best" knot in the world isn't worth a darn if tied poorly or if you can't come up with the goods under pressure.  

Yes, I've spent many, many hours tying knots in front of the TV.  I carry spools of furled bimini leaders in different # test with me on the boat so all I have to do is thread the two loops together when I'm fishing (I use a loop to loop connection).

Knots are fun!  ;D

Swamp


----------

