# Build Thread: 1967 Johnsen Starfisher 14'



## yobata

So I took the plunge a couple of months ago during football season and bought an old hull + trailer for $500 because I liked it's shape (knew I would have to wait until season was over to start work - I coach for a local HS). Here is the original CL ad:









Anyway, I started working about 8 days ago on the trailer first (wife agreed to the project only if the trailer was safe first). So I re-did the leaf springs, seals and bearings (plus added bearing buddies), jack, winch, bunks, rollers and lights.

Last week I bought a 2006 2 stoke 25hp yamaha short shaft - it looks very clean and runs very smooth (electric and manual start in case I end up adding a battery to the skiff).

Now it is time to start working on the hull itself. I took old hardware off: cleats, old rub rail, and the transom bracket.

















The transom bracket was too tall (20") for the short shaft motor, and I needed to take it off to start sanding down the inside of the hull.












Hmmm that doesn't look like a good sign. Took a brass sleeve that was barely glued into the drain tube to find:










Looks wet to me. In addition, there is delamination










The transom feels incredibly solid. I have slammed my rather large fist at it at full force and it did not make a sound, did not move, and felt strong. But since I am at the beginning there is no need to skip essential steps. Do not want to end up like @tcaseycook (no offense man, I truly feel bad for you that you found out about a bad transom at the end of a refurb).

Any input that you may have along the way, or if you see me screwing something up, please let me know. Here is one more shot of the hull (please excuse the mess of the garage). Although she is only 14' long, the 61" width (at the gunnels not the bottom) makes for a pretty roomy boat and I like the idea of restoring a 1967


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## yobata

Well, it only took an hour and a half, but I got the transom wood off...
The transom was 1.5" thick and made of two pieces of 3/4" ply. 









(I made that cut to get it out easier)

Here is the outside layer of the 3/4" ply still attached (with non stainless wood screws through the hull). Notice the rotten area on the top right (there was no through bolt or screw there).










The good news, because the sides of the plywood were never bedded in, it made it much easier to rip out...

Here is the inside view of the layer of fiberglass skin that I left










Still have to clean it up before I can install the new transom. Some of the removal process was a bit too rough and I will have to go back and re-glass some areas - notice the top corners, and the drain hole in this photo, oops:










I really want to take the entire transom skin off and start with new fiberglass but everything that I have read says to keep the old skin on. The last owner did some patch jobs that look terrible around the corners of the transom. Has anyone replaced the outside skin as well?


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## DLBjaxbeach

yobata said:


> Well, it only took an hour and a half, but I got the transom wood off...
> 
> I really want to take the entire transom skin off and start with new fiberglass but everything that I have read says to keep the old skin on. The last owner did some patch jobs that look terrible around the corners of the transom. Has anyone replaced the outside skin as well?


Don't cut the skin away. You will make your life much harder if you do. Cut the plywood (or whatever core you are using) to size and bed it in epoxy thickened with wood flour. You can rig clamps or just some basic 1x4 battens and screw from the outside in to pull the core tight to the skin. Once that has cured, you can sand the outside flush, fair it in, and lay a clean layer or two of glass over the whole thing, inside and outside. Also, don't forget to tab in the core to the inside of the hull with some heavier glass (12oz biax or something along those lines.)

There is a great transom rebuild tutorial on boatbuildercentral. Check it out. Helped me big time on mine.


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## Gamecock89

I cut away the skin on my rebuild but left a tab of about two inches all the way around. If you don't have to cut it away, then don't. Its not impossible to make it look right but it will test your fiberglass and fairing skills.


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## yobata

DLBjaxbeach said:


> Don't cut the skin away. You will make your life much harder if you do.


I spoke with Jacquez from Bateau/BoatBuilderCentral on Friday. I asked him the same question and showed him this photo which shows the previous owners transom rebuild (shotty job)









He agreed that there was no reason to keep this layer of skin since 1. it was cracking at multiple points where it contacted the actual hull, and 2. it was not quality work to begin with (especially since it was only polyester resin and not epoxy). He said that the biggest reason to keep the old skin on is the nice cosmetic finish that the factory produces, but since this transom had been redone, it did not matter, and the epoxy bond that I will use will be much stronger than the poly one on there now...

With his advice, I cut the old skin off, and started sanding off the old chunks of wood transom that were still attached to the hull (wet still), and layers of mat and poly resin.










There were non-stainless screw that the previous owner used to attach the transom:










I then cut two pieces of 3/4 marine fir to correct size, dry fitted it, cut the transom down to 15" in the middle with a radius to help with laying the glass in easier later.









looks much cleaner!

mixed 12 oz of epoxy, brushed a layer on each piece of 3/4", then added woodflour to the left over epoxy and using a plastic fairing scraper laid a layer of the think epoxy. put the two pieces together and added a bit of weight










Still have a bit of sanding to do on the hull (bottom and outside sides), then bed the transom, fillet, tab insides and out with 12oz biax tape (Jacqez showed me how to stagger the outside layers so that it ends up fairly neat and will only require a bit of fairing), and epoxy two layers of 12oz biax on both outside and inside...


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## tomahawk

Looking good man. The BBC guys rock! I always buy from them and they are not the closest place to me...


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## yobata

After 2+ hours of sanding the last few days, I got around to some glass work today. Mixed up quite a bit of thickened epoxy to bed and fillet in the transom (I'd say probably close to 18oz).









Used a 1.25" washer to make the fillets









2 layers of staggered 6" 12oz biax tape on sides and bottom, then a layer of 12oz biax on the whole inside of the transom (although I think I mistakenly got the 17oz biax cloth - at least that's the way it felt soaking up all that epoxy)









Here is a closeup of the work









Going to let this cure for 2 days (won't have time to work tomorrow), then flip the hull, sand the bottom and glass the outside of the transom.


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## yobata

Side note, the 4.5" lamination roller I picked up from Fiberglass Florida for $8 worked awesome


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## yobata

Got the boat flipped and started sanding










found a crack in the strake, fortunately the strakes were added after the hull was pulled from mold, so there is no leak, but still has to be fixed.










here is the crap lamination done by last owner, honestly some of this stuff i just jammed a flathead screwdriver and pried it off










someone tried to beef up the strake with woven roving - no fairing










and paint is peeling because it was just slapped on (probably no sanding after the "repair")



transom is prepped for outside skin





















i hate the rolled gunnel, it makes it hard to sand in the crack. 

continued to sand. sanding sucks. its warm again. bunny suit + respirator + enclosed safety goggles = foggy, sweaty, dirty, tedious work.






























two overlapping layers of tabbing, then a complete skin.

Yes, i know that small section is not laminated properly. So i stopped after the first layer, let it cure for 2 days, sanded back to the wood in that spot, sanded rest of outside skin, recoated with epoxy, small patch in that spot, then another complete layer of biax over entire transom. It is curing right now, in a couple of days i will post the final results. then sand again, and skim coat (is that the proper term?) with epoxy...

The work is slow now, especially the sanding/grinding of the old paint. I could pay a kid down the street $100 bucks to finish it for me, but i dont want gouges or holes in the hull, so it will be me in the bunny suit, sweating, and taking frequent breaks to clean safety goggles (both dust on outside and condensation inside)... This part of the work is always no fun, but it will be worth it in the end.

Anyone ever tried to pressure wash the layer of paint off? I don't want to use chemical strippers but I also want this part to be over with.


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## jrgrady

Haven't found a way to avoid the dirty work. It sucks for sure and is the worst part of the process but you hit the nail on the head, It will be worth it in the end. Here was my sanding project. Brutal..

View media item 249


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## yobata

Sanded with 60 grit on a palm sander hooked up to shop vac















Applied a single coat of epoxy









4 hours later while first layer was still tacky, I applied a second layer of epoxy. Will let it cure, then sand with 100, 150, 220 grit.

Then sand rest of bottom of hull, prime and paint - going with the cheap option - Rustoleum topsider in battleship gray for bottom. White for decks and sole. At $13/qt, it is by far the cheapest option and it looks to give a reasonable results... I'm going for workboat finish. Will probably add some hardener to it. Maybe something like this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/majic-catalyst-hardener-1-2-pint


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## jonrconner

For the bottom, you could get a bag of graphite from Bateau that you mix into your epoxy that you coat the bottom with, much tougher than paint, and cheap.
JC


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## yobata

How much graphite do you think I would need to cover the bottom? To what consistency do you add it to the epoxy? And how many coats?


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## yobata

Also, I know that normally epoxy has to be covered to prevent UV deterioration, I get that this stuff will be on the bottom and somewhat protected, but what about UV reflecting off the water? Is the graphite mixed in sufficient to protect it from UV rays?


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## jonrconner

First, epoxy with graphite is UV proof because it's opaque, the mix is 1-3 using dry weight (volume)measure for the graphite, I'd guess that you could do three coats rolled on with a foam roller at about 6oz epoxy per coat. Then you have a coating that's hard as a rock that's very easy to repair if needed.
JC


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## yobata

jonrconner said:


> First, epoxy with graphite is UV proof because it's opaque, the mix is 1-3 using dry weight (volume)measure for the graphite, I'd guess that you could do three coats rolled on with a foam roller at about 6oz epoxy per coat. Then you have a coating that's hard as a rock that's very easy to repair if needed.
> JC


Excellent! Thank you for this info! I may pick some graphite up from Fiiberglass Florida on Tuesday since they are just around the corner from my work.


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## jonrconner

Just for reference, I think it was $12 for a bag that would do several boats at Bateau.
JC


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## tomahawk

Definitely do the graphite. I used it on a Gheenoe I'm re-doing. I did not use it on my skiff, but wish I had. I put Gatorglide on it and for what it costs I'm not that impressed with its durability...
The graphite was like $7 a pound which is enough to do probably three skiffs.


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## yobata

tomahawk said:


> Definitely do the graphite. I used it on a Gheenoe I'm re-doing. I did not use it on my skiff, but wish I had. I put Gatorglide on it and for what it costs I'm not that impressed with its durability...
> The graphite was like $7 a pound which is enough to do probably three skiffs.


How many coats did you use on this Gheenoe?


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## tomahawk

4


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## Backwater

Does the graphite come in different colors or just black?

Couldn't he just buy paint pigment and put it into the epoxy?

Btw, note to the original poster. Regular rustolem will not last at all and you will be disappointed with it in the long run. Spend a few more bucks and do it right and you will thank yourself. If you were painting the interior, I would pick up some white 2 part marine epoxy paint to do your interior. You can use a foam roller to apply it. The durability is fa-nominal! Same thing with the outside. Either Awegrip or 2 part epoxy marine paint. I would fare it out with something 1st, to get a nice smooth surface. I would take the advice from jconner and treat the bottom at least with the combo epoxy/graphite or at least 2 part marine epoxy paint (or epoxy with paint pigments) for the durability and then you can awegrip the sides.


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## yobata

Backwater said:


> Does the graphite come in different colors or just black?
> 
> Couldn't he just buy paint pigment and put it into the epoxy?
> 
> Btw, note to the original poster. Regular rustolem will not last at all and you will be disappointed with it in the long run. Spend a few more bucks and do it right and you will thank yourself. If you were painting the interior, I would pick up some white 2 part marine epoxy paint to do your interior. You can use a foam roller to apply it. The durability is fa-nominal! Same thing with the outside. Either Awegrip or 2 part epoxy marine paint. I would fare it out with something 1st, to get a nice smooth surface. I would take the advice from jconner and treat the bottom at least with the combo epoxy/graphite or at least 2 part marine epoxy paint (or epoxy with paint pigments) for the durability and then you can awegrip the sides.


I received the graphite powder from BBC yesterday. I'm going to definitely do the bottom in 3-4 coats of that stuff. I like the idea that there will be layers of epoxy instead of paint there.

I am also seriously considering doing the sides and outside of the transom with that stuff too for a one tone look. Any problems with this idea? I would probably only do two coats on the sides but 4 on the bottom.


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## yobata

Boat builder central only had it in the natural "black" form. I think the point of using graphite over paint pigment is that it helps 'slide' over any objects that I may strike underwater (logs, oysters, etc.) 

I know carpenters use this stuff on door hinges because of its superior lubrication properties. The idea of mixing it into epoxy is a similar concept. It doesn't make the epoxy any tougher, but helps object slide over the hull easier...


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## Guest

Cute skiff. great deal with that super firm price. great transom work. that will hold that motor a lot better than the old rotten "fixed" transom the previous owner had


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## jonrconner

My opinion, for the sides, paint over a high build primer will look better and you have so many more color choices. 
JC


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## yobata

It took some time, but I was finally able to finish removing the old paint.









Taped off the section of the hull that was to receive epoxy/graphite. Mixed 15oz of epoxy and added ~3oz of graphite for a 20% mix. Here it is after 2 coats (I waited just over an hour between each coat for the epoxy to kick, it was a warm day so sped up the process a bit).










2 more coats for a total of 4 for the bottom.










For anyone who may go this route, make sure when selecting rollers to get the shortest nap possible. I used 1/4" nap because that was the shortest at my local home build store. The lady 1st talked me into using the foam ones, but that was a mistake. When the epoxy heated up, the foam started falling apart, so I switched...

I am pretty excited to flip the hull and work on the inside, that I don't have to sand the outside anymore, and that I do not have to go into a full bunny suit from this point - the rest will be done in long sleeves only...


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## jonrconner

Looks good, I used foam rollers but only made batches 7-8oz then go as fast as possible. I think I did only half the bottom per mix and could get through 2 mixes with 1 roller.
JC


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## tomahawk

jonrconner said:


> Looks good, I used foam rollers but only made batches 7-8oz then go as fast as possible. I think I did only half the bottom per mix and could get through 2 mixes with 1 roller.
> JC


Yep same here. The napped rollers left fuzz all over the bottom as well.


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## yobata

I have some decisions to make, namely the spacing of the bulkheads (and hence the sizes of the decks).

It's a 14' boat, and I was thinking 6' front deck, 5' cockpit, 3' rear deck.

Is 5' a big enough cockpit? What about if I want to add a cooler?

Is 3' a big enough rear deck for a platform and some space to cast from if not on platform?

All opinions appreciated!


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## eagle24

yobata said:


> I have some decisions to make, namely the spacing of the bulkheads (and hence the sizes of the decks).
> 
> It's a 14' boat, and I was thinking 6' front deck, 5' cockpit, 3' rear deck.
> 
> Is 5' a big enough cockpit? What about if I want to add a cooler?
> 
> Is 3' a big enough rear deck for a platform and some space to cast from if not on platform?
> 
> All opinions appreciated!


How wide is the beam? I think it's going to be you that has to make the decision on the deck sizes. What you describe sounds pretty good to me, but it would be easier to see what looks "right" looking at the boat "in person". Are you going to leave the bulkheads open for access under the decks? 5' cockpit would be plenty for me because I travel light and organized. Nice work you did replacing that transom.


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## yobata

eagle24 said:


> How wide is the beam? I think it's going to be you that has to make the decision on the deck sizes. What you describe sounds pretty good to me, but it would be easier to see what looks "right" looking at the boat "in person". Are you going to leave the bulkheads open for access under the decks? 5' cockpit would be plenty for me because I travel light and organized. Nice work you did replacing that transom.


61" at the top of the cap widest point. Open bulkhead in the front, haven't made the decision about the back bulkhead.

The 5' cockpit has me concerned because the size of my legs + cooler + size of passenger legs in front of cooler is going to be pretty tight... I fish 2 people 80% of the time...

Thanks for the kind words


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## eagle24

yobata said:


> 61" at the top of the cap widest point. Open bulkhead in the front, haven't made the decision about the back bulkhead.
> 
> The 5' cockpit has me concerned because the size of my legs + cooler + size of passenger legs in front of cooler is going to be pretty tight... I fish 2 people 80% of the time...
> 
> Thanks for the kind words


If you consider a Yeti Tundra 50, it's actually a little shorter than a 45 at 24". That would give you 18" front and rear of the cooler which should be plenty. I don't know if you ride more than you fish, but I would definitely give up cockpit room and comfort for room on the casting deck. Move the cooler up a touch and cramp your fishing buddy to give you more room. LOL


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## yobata

Flipped the hull











started tearing out the front bench. anyone need any 2x10s for some floor joists?









front bench seat is out



















now to make some layout decision. that front deck is going to get taken out - it wont serve a purpose (other than supporting the new deck possibly). thinking about placing the new front deck at 6 feet from the bow - which is the back of the 2x4 in this photo (i know its hard to judge from this perspective)...


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## yobata

Rear bulkhead cut and fitted (no photo yet), motor well cut, glued up and tabbed in. I also added another layer of 6oz cloth to the inside of the transom after 2 layers of 12oz biax tape to the top of the transom.


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## CurtisWright

What are you going to do to stiffen the floor now that the benches are gone?


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## yobata

CurtisWright said:


> What are you going to do to stiffen the floor now that the benches are gone?


The front bench didn't go all the way to the ground. The rear bench did however. 

I am hoping that the 2 new bulkheads (front and rear), plus the epoxy on the outside, plus *the layer of 6oz (or maybe I should lay the 12oz biax?) that I plan to put on the floor* will be enough. It is not a cored hull, so it definitely flexes a bit...

What are your recommendations?

Under the rear deck, I'm planning on putting in 2# floatations foam and a 3/8 flat "sole" that will only be under the deck and won't have to support much weight (only life jackets and tackle boxes). same under the front deck with possibly an additional support since the 6gal portable gas tank will go up front (and possibly eventually a smaller odyssey battery).

I changed my mind on putting float foam and a sole in the cockpit for 3 reasons: 1. It's almost spring break and I want to go fishing, 2. It will add a bit of weight and 3. The floor is not so curvy that it need to be flattened so bad...


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## CurtisWright

Ok. I'd say run it like you planned and if it's bad then you can come back and fix it


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## yobata

CurtisWright said:


> Ok. I'd say run it like you planned and if it's bad then you can come back and fix it


Haha my confidence in the plan is rising by the minute...

A little update








Rear bulkhead tabbed in

Added a drain tube


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## eagle24

So will you have a bilge pump inside the splash well? I guess I'm missing how the splash well works. Great job on the transom. Looks like I may get to experience replacing a transom.


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## yobata

eagle24 said:


> So will you have a bilge pump inside the splash well? I guess I'm missing how the splash well works. Great job on the transom. Looks like I may get to experience replacing a transom.


Eventually there will be a bilge pump in the well, but I mostly wanted to be able to store things under the back deck without those items getting soaked. I am going to pour foam into those cavities and a sole will go on top. Yesterday I glued some support brackets, I'll take a pic of them later today. I'm not worried about having to support much weight there because only light weight stuff will be stored there (lifejackets, etc.) 

Tank and a very small battery are going under the front deck.


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## eagle24

yobata said:


> Eventually there will be a bilge pump in the well, but I mostly wanted to be able to store things under the back deck without those items getting soaked. I am going to pour foam into those cavities and a sole will go on top. Yesterday I glued some support brackets, I'll take a pic of them later today. I'm not worried about having to support much weight there because only light weight stuff will be stored there (lifejackets, etc.)
> 
> Tank and a very small battery are going under the front deck.


Gotcha! I'll be watching what you do with your build. The specs on your hull are very close to the Seal Craft boat I bought. Beam on mine is 61". The difference is the bow shape and mine being a tri-hull design.

Are your decks going to hang over the gunwales? How much length did you decide on for your cockpit area?


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## yobata

eagle24 said:


> Gotcha! I'll be watching what you do with your build. The specs on your hull are very close to the Seal Craft boat I bought. Beam on mine is 61". The difference is the bow shape and mine being a tri-hull design.
> 
> Are your decks going to hang over the gunwales? How much length did you decide on for your cockpit area?


5' cockpit, 3' rear deck, 6' front deck.

The decks will hang over the gunwales, but only a few inches. I haven't decided on the actual number yet, and it will largely depend on if I use 6oz or 12oz biax for the underneath of the decks. I'm a pretty big guy and am not completely confident in the strength of 3/8 ply with only 6oz on each side.


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## CurtisWright

yobata said:


> 5' cockpit, 3' rear deck, 6' front deck.
> 
> The decks will hang over the gunwales, but only a few inches. I haven't decided on the actual number yet, and it will largely depend on if I use 6oz or 12oz biax for the underneath of the decks. I'm a pretty big guy and am not completely confident in the strength of 3/8 ply with only 6oz on each side.


I used 1/2" divynal with a matt and 24 oz woven roving on each side of my deck and it can hold a 300lb man. My deck is 5' long and 5' wide. My back deck is 4' long and 5'wide same layup. I'd put two 12 biax oz minimum on the bottom and then I would put a few layers of matt and one biax on the top. Compression on the top tension on the bottom. 

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/fowl-river-16-build.17289/


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## yobata

thanks curtis!


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## yobata

Template cut for front bulkhead - I first made an outside shape with strips of cardboard, then traced and cut onto this single sheet of cardboard









Once I was happy with the fit, traced this template on the ply and cut. Then ground down the paint about 6 inches on each side. Then bedded, filletted and tabbed with 12oz biax tape.










Total time starting with 1st template ~4 hours, some of it wasted with fickling with the templates, but the better that template fits, the less time you have to spend altering the bulkhead ply itself (and in this case it fit so well that no alteration was necessary...


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## Shicks007

The boat is looking good! Very similar design and vision as our project, a 14 Wenzel. We added a sole to our skiff and used 2lb 2 part foam under the deck for support. If I had to do it over I would build this project where it could be used in between phases like you mentioned, it's almost time to fish! It has been a much larger project than I anticipated. I'm following your build to get some ideas.


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## yobata

Thanks Shicks007!

I had a tough time deciding on whether to get rid of the old front deck. In the end I decided to cut it out because it would interfere with the rod tubes.









I am happy with the decision, especially after seeing the bracing underneath it.









Its like a band-aid for a fractured bone...

It also included a few friends











I also got side-tracked, a year ago I made a mold from this Yozuri Banana Boat plug









With some excess thickened epoxy, I filled the mold


and the next day had a new lure (although I'm not sure of its floating characteristics lol)











Back to work. Reinforced the bow eye with thickened epoxy to create a collar around the ply and added two layers of 12oz biax tape to the inside.

























Will re-drill, reinstall with 5200 after paint.


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## yobata

I poured 2# flotation foam in the front under the little cone (boat tilted forward to allow the foam to completely fill in that compartment, then expand out). Then fitted, cut, bedded, filletted, and glassed in a support bracket.









Cut foam to level.








Filled in second compartment of front sole and cut flat









Made template for front sole with luan. Only being held by duct tape but worked fine for getting the curves...









Cut, fitted and glassed the bottom of the front sole.









Will bed, fillet and tab in the front sole tomorrow. Then glass top of front sole; cut, fit and bed front deck supports (may need an additional bulkhead for support here).

Making progress (slower than I would like, but at least still moving forward)...


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## eagle24

What FG cloth are you using on your sole? Was the foam hard to pour without wasting a bunch?


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## yobata

I'm using 6oz cloth for the sole (both under and on top of the sole ply) - but I will not be putting a sole in the cockpit area since my boat is relatively flat. I'm only putting it under the front deck so that I can screw the gas tank (portable) and battery to the floor (with straps). I'm also adding a sole under the rear deck with floatation foam. Both of these areas will be more than enough for the Coast Guard requirement for 'upright flotation' for my size skiff.

It was actually not very hard to calculate how much to mix at a time. Each section of the front sole (2 sections) needed mixes of 16oz of each part A and part B of the float foam. Honestly the hardest part is that the float foam likes to expand up and not "out" so much so I had to use a mixing stick to spread it out since the deepest section was only ~3" deep at the centerline. I know people say that foam will eventually get wet and hold water, but I am hoping that by getting a good seal with epoxy at the edges (and tabbing them in) that I can minimize this effect... Btw I got a 2 gallon kit (1gallon of part A and 1gal of part B) of the 2lb foam for $70 from Fiberglass Florida - it's in Rockledge.


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## yobata

I only ended up shaving just a little of the foam from each section to make it flat (I used an 'undercut saw'). Bateau says that if you have a lot of excess that you cut off you can actually use it in the next compartment because the next batch will make the random cut pieces stick, so you don't actually have to waste very much at all...


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## eagle24

Looking good. I'll be doing all the same things on my project boat and skiff. Spent this afternoon re-packing trailer wheel bearings while epoxy fairing hardened enough to sand.


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## yobata

eagle24 said:


> Looking good. I'll be doing all the same things on my project boat and skiff. Spent this afternoon re-packing trailer wheel bearings while epoxy fairing hardened enough to sand.


I am enjoying reading your projects and am impressed because I am having a hard enough time finding daylight to finish just this one, while you are working on a rebuild and a from-scratch build! Keep up the tempo!


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## yobata

Trimmed off excess fiberglass from underside of front sole. Bedded with thickened epoxy and filleted. Then tabbed in with 6" 12oz biax tape. Later, a layer of 6oz cloth on the top side.









I decided on two small supports for the front deck, the front most one is in - a 6 foot span is pretty far and since the beam is ~58" here I will need to use two piece of ply to make the top deck, so the supports will help in the splice...










It feels like progress.

Back deck is foamed in.
















Tomorrow (hopefully) cut it flat, template a sole and glass underside. Bed, tab, glass top..


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## yobata

Its good to keep short term goals, but one must not be discouraged by not meeting them in a timely fashion...

Templated a second support and cut it to fit. Cut out the bulkhead for access to gas tank and other storage - there is quite a bit of room up there!









Bed, fillet, tab, and glass both sides.










Cut back deck's foam to fit level.









Started making a template for the back sole, got frustrated and still itchy from sanding fiberglass earlier, so I called it a day... May try another template method tomorrow...

Some people stand in the darkness
Afraid to get into the light
Some people need to help somebody
When the edge of surrender's in sight

Don't you worry
Its gonna be alright
'Cause I'm always ready
I won't let you out of my sight

I'll be ready!


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## scsdiver

Looking good! can't wait to see the progression! wish i would have had some of your ideas on mine!


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## jdpber1

off to a good start, keep it up


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## yobata

Thank you both! All I did today was template out and cut he sole for the beck deck area and glass one side. Rainstorm came through here and put a damper on work...


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## yobata

Been a little lazy, but finally got some work done last couple days...

Rear sole is in (glassed on both sides), bedded and tabbed in










Over-drilled, filled with thickened epoxy and re-drilled for rod tubes and epoxy/5200 rod tubes










Lightly sanded underneath the front deck, then cut front deck










Front view - yes it overhangs a good 3.5" - should help some with spray...


Had to use 2 pieces for the front deck since it is 6' by 66" at widest section... Tomorrow will hopefully glass the underneath of front deck. I temporarily screwed some scrap wood to the top to join the two panels (not shown here) for easy of epoxying them together and glassing.

Will a layer of 6oz on both sides be enough? I know that ply provides the structural strength here, but I am considering using the 12oz biax at least on the underneath.... Any input here is appreciated!


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## eagle24

yobata said:


> Been a little lazy, but finally got some work done last couple days...
> 
> Rear sole is in (glassed on both sides), bedded and tabbed in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over-drilled, filled with thickened epoxy and re-drilled for rod tubes and epoxy/5200 rod tubes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lightly sanded and primed underneath the front deck, then cut front deck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Front view - yes it overhangs a good 3.5" - should help some with spray...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had to use 2 pieces for the front deck since it is 6' by 66" at widest section... Tomorrow will hopefully glass the underneath of front deck. I temporarily screwed some scrap wood to the top to join the two panels (not shown here) for easy of epoxying them together and glassing.
> 
> Will a layer of 6oz on both sides be enough? I know that ply provides the structural strength here, but I am considering using the 12oz biax at least on the underneath.... Any input here is appreciated!


I'm very interested in how you proceed with the front deck. I'll be basically doing the same with my tri hull. Have you considered ripping some plywood maybe 3" or 4" wide and glassing it between the bulkheads like joists? You could saw notches in the bulkheads 2/3 the width of the joists and saw a notch 1/3 the width in the plywood joist so they interlock, then glass them in and glass them the full length. Not sure this is the best way, but it's what I am considering on mine. Btw, your skiff is looking good.


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## yobata

eagle24 said:


> I'm very interested in how you proceed with the front deck. I'll be basically doing the same with my tri hull. Have you considered ripping some plywood maybe 3" or 4" wide and glassing it between the bulkheads like joists? You could saw notches in the bulkheads 2/3 the width of the joists and saw a notch 1/3 the width in the plywood joist so they interlock, then glass them in and glass them the full length. Not sure this is the best way, but it's what I am considering on mine. Btw, your skiff is looking good.


Thanks! I am not sure that all that is needed... The ply is relatively strong on its own - when I glassed both sides of the front and rear sole with just 6oz, I was able to stand on it with essentially only the 2# float foam underneath which doesn't actually provide any structural support. I am however, considering using 12oz biax on the underside of the decks as an insurance policy. From everything that I have read, most people OVERbuild their first time. My grandfather was a carpenter and build my fathers house from scratch - I tend to think in building construction terms too, but I believe that the extra joists are not really needed in this case.

Think about it this way - the big boat builders use 1/2" core foam and laminate with fiberglass - in those instances, the fiberglass is what gives the sandwich its strength. The foam itself is relatively flimsy. In the case of glass over ply, the ply is what provides strength to the sandwich (for the most part). A couple of posts back, @CurtisWright describes a span of 5' x 5' with 1/2" divynilcell and 24oz cloth on both top and bottom. If I am not misstaken, the divynilcell does not provide much structural support (although I have not used this material yet myself) - the strength comes from the fiberglass in that instance...


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## CurtisWright

yobata said:


> Thanks! I am not sure that all that is needed... The ply is relatively strong on its own - when I glassed both sides of the front and rear sole with just 6oz, I was able to stand on it with essentially only the 2# float foam underneath which doesn't actually provide any structural support. I am however, considering using 12oz biax on the underside of the decks as an insurance policy. From everything that I have read, most people OVERbuild their first time. My grandfather was a carpenter and build my fathers house from scratch - I tend to think in building construction terms too, but I believe that the extra joists are not really needed in this case.
> 
> Think about it this way - the big boat builders use 1/2" core foam and laminate with fiberglass - in those instances, the fiberglass is what gives the sandwich its strength. The foam itself is relatively flimsy. In the case of glass over ply, the ply is what provides strength to the sandwich (for the most part). A couple of posts back, @CurtisWright describes a span of 5' x 5' with 1/2" divynilcell and 24oz cloth on both top and bottom. If I am not misstaken, the divynilcell does not provide much structural support (although I have not used this material yet myself) - the strength comes from the fiberglass in that instance...


You won't need much glass with that middle support. A layer of 6oz on the bottom and a Matt on top will work fine. Without the support you would need a little more.

As far as the divynal goes. Your correct. The highest stresses are in the outer most mm of the deck both top and bottom. Divynal does not take any load. It separates the inner and outer skin. The farther they are separated the higher the modulus is.


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## jasonhinkel

lookin good!! any updates?


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## yobata

Sorry been out of commission for a bit due to an auto accident. Should have more updates in a few weeks...


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## mackman904

yobata said:


> Sorry been out of commission for a bit due to an auto accident. Should have more updates in a few weeks...


Dang, take care of yourself bud.


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## yobata

mackman904 said:


> Dang, take care of yourself bud.


Thank you!


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## ceejkay

the progress looks good man. i ended up doing my layout very similar as you have seen. sorry to hear your out of commission, take it easy


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## yobata

Gonna try and work on the skiff tomorrow. I like to reflect (read: obsess) over decisions so the down time gave me lots of ideas. 

I'm going to keep the non floor setup but will add a layer of 12oz biax to the cockpit area to stiffen it up. I walked around in it the other day and the floor flexes a bit too much for my taste. 

I'm going with your idea for the hatch gutters (pressing a tube/pipe into the drain to create a nice fillet) but will add holes to the back for the water to drain directly into the splash well.

And will add tubes into/under the gunnels for electric/gas lines (2 separate ones, one on each side) so that I can keep the gas tank and possible battery in the front compartment for weight distribution. Still not sure on the battery, may go with a small motorcycle one for now just for starting the 25hp Yamaha 2 stroke... I have lots of room under the front deck which is 6' long

Will also reinforce an area under the front deck for trolling motor if I decide to add later, and under back deck for poling platform if I decide to add. (For now I may go with a cooler on the deck in the back to start)...


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## LowHydrogen

Just read through the whole thread. This is going to be a really nice boat. 

Hope the recovery is coming along well. 

One of the small Odyssey batteries will be all you need for that motor, and the weight is next to nothing.


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## yobata

LowHydrogen said:


> Just read through the whole thread. This is going to be a really nice boat.
> 
> Hope the recovery is coming along well.
> 
> One of the small Odyssey batteries will be all you need for that motor, and the weight is next to nothing.


Thank you!! Went to the supply shop and got more epoxy and glass. Will post some pics tomorrow of updates. 

I hear very good things about the Odysseys. Can you recommend a specific model? I guess I can just look up the amp requirements of that motor and match it up


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## ceejkay

yobata said:


> Thank you!! Went to the supply shop and got more epoxy and glass. Will post some pics tomorrow of updates.
> 
> I hear very good things about the Odysseys. Can you recommend a specific model? I guess I can just look up the amp requirements of that motor and match it up


i just went through this and its a pain to find out ccas and stuff for outboards. deka has a nice little chart that you can use and just cross refrence the specs over to odysseys. hope this helps
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0406MarineApplicationslayout.pdf


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## LowHydrogen

I had


yobata said:


> Thank you!! Went to the supply shop and got more epoxy and glass. Will post some pics tomorrow of updates.
> 
> I hear very good things about the Odysseys. Can you recommend a specific model? I guess I can just look up the amp requirements of that motor and match it up


Had an electric start Johnson 25 and I think I had the pc680 model. Never used it for anything but to start the motor, but it always started easily, I can't imagine that Yamaha needing any more..... YMMV


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## yobata

Well, it has been a while to say the least. I have been healing up and also moved homes, both of which delayed any progress on the skiff build. But having cleaned out the new homes garage and painted the floor, it feels good to have a clean and covered area to work under during these hot days...

Although there isn't too much progress so speak of, I wanted to post a couple of photos (mostly to motivate myself to keep at it).

Glassed in the cockpit side of the rear bulkhead with 6oz glass









Also cut, fit, and glassed in the rear deck brace. I will also be adding a couple of more that will be almost perpendicular to this one and will form the outsides of the gutter for the rear deck hatch.











Next on the list is the rest of the rear deck gutter system, a layer of 12oz biax on the cockpit floor (flexed just a bit much for my taste without the bench seats), rod holders/gunnel supports, and the top deck. I know it sounds like a lot but I will have some free time in the next few weeks to make some progress.


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## LowHydrogen

Nice man! Moving sucks, always seems like you always have to do it in the middle of summer or winter (me anyway).

Glad you're back "focused on the righteous path". If you need a nudge of motivation, there's nothing better than the Drive-By Truckers at a slightly higher than comfortable volume. Recommend The Dirty South album for grinding and general mayhem type work, and probably Decoration Day, or Brighter than Creations Dark for the more delicate stuff.

Anyway looking forward to your build. 

LH


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## ceejkay

looking good man. just do what you can do, and you will be done before you know it.


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## yobata

Glassed in the read bulkhead (inside locker side) - sorry for the terrible photo...









and finished the rear deck gutters...










Wanted to keep working but its too hot today...

One thing that you cannot see but I feel is vital: Fillet the underneath of each of the supports with thickened epoxy wherever they meet with bulkheads, the splashwell, or the sides/(rolled gunnels in my case)


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## ceejkay

Looks good, i couldn't imagine doing much the last couple days it's been hot. Where are you planning on having the gutters drain to?


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## yobata

ceejkay said:


> Looks good, i couldn't imagine doing much the last couple days it's been hot. Where are you planning on having the gutters drain to?


Both to the front and into the splash well. I'm going to over drill holes into the splash well and then drill smaller ones to drain to the rear. But also, the front of the hatch will actually close over the front of that bulkhead. The plan is to have a 1x2" rail in the entire cockpit area including front deck, gunnels, and rear deck (the rear deck will be cut in 3 so that the middle section is attached to the hatch instead of the bulkhead)


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## yobata

Ceejkay - here is how I cut out the front drain that will go into the cockpit (pre-fillets)










I also added a layer of 12oz biax to the cockpit to reduce any flex (since there is no longer a bench seat here and since I am electing to go without a sole/liner) after filling the middle channel with 2# float foam. I know you cant seem much in this photo but for the sake of documenting I'm including it...









and here are some photos of the paint job on the sides/transom (primed, lightly sanded, and rolled/tipped)


























Next on the list: gunnel supports/rod holders, bed down front deck, fit and cut rear deck. Hopefully will get most of this done tomorrow.


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## ceejkay

That should work out pretty good. I contemplated getting rid of my floor and I'm glad i didn't. When at rest my floor is nice and solid. But when im running i can watch it flex. It's pretty trippy actually. So that extra layer of glass is not a bad idea.


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## erikb85

It is to my knowledge that the flex under power helps absorb some energy that otherwise would be spent cracking weak areas.


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## yobata

erikb85 said:


> It is to my knowledge that the flex under power helps absorb some energy that otherwise would be spent cracking weak areas.


The flex I felt was not under power, but rather me just walking around the cockpit when the boat was on the trailer... It is a 1967ish hull, I figured a layer of 12oz biax fabric couldn't possibly hurt as I know of many restores/rebuilds who add one or more layers of 1708 to "freshen up" the old glass....


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## FishermanSailor

Nice build.


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## yobata

FishermanSailor said:


> Nice build.


Thank you!

In the last few days I added gunnel supports/rod holders to both sides (only port side shown here, but both sides are complete). I tabbed into the side and glassed in, then trimmed excess glass. Here you can see holes for the chase tube that will have the fuel line and the cutout for the inside gunnel support rail.









Also bedded the gunnel support rail and the chase tube









here is one more to show the top view










I have also roughly cut the gunnel and rear deck for the port side and glassed the bottom of it (this view shows it upside down of course). I did not cut these to final size, but will rather run a router bit along the gunnel support rail to cut to final size and give the roundover.









I have also over drilled a hole in the bottom of the transom for drainage and filled with thickened epoxy, then sanded down smooth, drilled to correct size and installed a drain plug.

Next steps: give every piece of dimensional lumber and any exposed edges of ply another coat of epoxy for reassurance, bed the front deck and side gunnels/rear decks with thickened epoxy, using router trim inside the cockpit/rear deck areas as well as roundover the edges, and then lay a layer of glass on the topsides. Oh and add a rubrail piece like Luke did with his builds (this part may actually take the longest)...

then paint the topside and cockpit space and mount the motor - I have a 2006 Yamaha 2 stroke 25hp short shaft tiller in pretty good condition. I have found that these Johnsen's were made by White's Fiberglass in Groveland and even found an image of the original USCG plate that shows 25HP was the max. I probably have a much stronger transom than the original boat, but since I already have this motor and will mostly be fishing the IRL here in Brevard I don't need to go real fast anyway.


Anecdote: you may notice that my truck color has changed in this build thread from the victory red to blue granite and the driveway looks different. Accident forced a truck change, and we have moved homes since the start of this build (hence the delay in finishing or at least that the excuse I keep telling myself)...


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## Dadvocate

First very nice work and design. I rebuilt a 15' Johnsen skiff. You'll love the Yamaha 25 performance. The floor flexing bothers some people but not me since I had a Gheenoe for a while. I had to cut down my rebuilt transom to dial in the ride height so no prop slip. I used a Walmart garden tractor battery, cheap and spins motor over fine. I installed Lenco trim tabs to help with hole shot and trim when fishing with two people.


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## yobata

Dadvocate said:


> First very nice work and design. I rebuilt a 15' Johnsen skiff. You'll love the Yamaha 25 performance. The floor flexing bothers some people but not me since I had a Gheenoe for a while. I had to cut down my rebuilt transom to dial in the ride height so no prop slip. I used a Walmart garden tractor battery, cheap and spins motor over fine. I installed Lenco trim tabs to help with hole shot and trim when fishing with two people.


Thanks! Do you have any numbers on the yamaha25's performance on your skiff?


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## ceejkay

im having issues dialing my skiff in as far as engine height as well. ended up going with a jackplate and still have cavitation issues with a 3 blade. 4 blade works like a champ though


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## Dadvocate

It runs 25mph with two people and close to 30 solo. These are not certified speeds I cut almost 2" off the transom to get it right at 19" high. Solas 10-1/4 x 12 pitch 3 blade works well on mine. Tried a Yamaha factory prop that I had re-worked back to 12 pitch but had some slippage when running solo.


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## yobata

Bonded the gunnels/rear decks to the hull today. Will do the same with the front deck tomorrow. I filletted the bonds on the inside to the old rolled gunnel and to the gunnel rail.
















Yes, I realize that the inside of the gunnels are too big (same with the rear decks), but I will be using a router with a flush cut bit first, then a roundover to make a better edge that will be easier to glass and will be the correct size. I wanted it to fit really well, and if I had pre-cut it, it would undoubtedly not fit 100% everywhere... Hopefully will be able to show you tomorrow after some router work...

The outside edge will get a 1x2 dimensional lumber that serves as a rubrail - Luke's 14' skiff has the same rub rail I believe...


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## yobata

A router is an incredible tool!


















I also bonded the front deck this morning. After it cures, I will use the router to make its edges clean too...









Next, I'm going to add the rub rail, and glass the top of the decks. Also have to build a hatch for the rear deck.


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## ceejkay

man thats looking really nice


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## LWalker

yobata said:


> A router is an incredible tool!


Love my router too! Looking good!


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## yobata

Thanks!

Finished the rub rail/deck rail, and I must thank @Vertigo @DuckNut @LWalker @firecat1981 for the advice on getting the bow bent to shape! Ripping the material to thin strips and laminating worked out really well! Thanks again for all the advice guys!

Here are some photos of the rail and the routed deck.

























Next, little sanding to do to the top of the decks, route a 1/2" roundover inside and out, then 7.5oz glass on top of the decks, light fairing work, and paint! Getting this much done is really encouraging and motivating to keep going...


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## LowHydrogen

Man, nice progress. You'll easily be ready for some nice fall Red action!!

I am a bit jealous of your garage. I wish I could go back to an uncluttered blank canvas. Mine looks like 5lbs of $^!* in a 3lb bag.


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## yobata

LowHydrogen said:


> Man, nice progress. You'll easily be ready for some nice fall Red action!!
> 
> I am a bit jealous of your garage. I wish I could go back to an uncluttered blank canvas. Mine looks like 5lbs of $^!* in a 3lb bag.


Thank you!!

The garage is kind of misleading. It's only somewhat clean because we just moved in here. We still own our old home and most of the clutter is still over there


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## DuckNut

For easier fairing start be fairing the bare wood first. Then when you got that done and a day before you lay the glass, fair it again after a coat of epoxy dries, then put your cloth on.

So much easier to fair the wood. But if you have a big ridge, don't take too much off.


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## permitchaser

I followed the whole build. You should be proud of what you have done so far. Are you planning a hatch on that big deck. Can't wait for you first water test


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## yobata

permitchaser said:


> I followed the whole build. You should be proud of what you have done so far. Are you planning a hatch on that big deck. Can't wait for you first water test


Hatch on the rear deck only, front under deck access is thru the open bulkhead. And thank you!


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## wely

Great Job! Keep up the good work. You are motivating me to start mine.


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## LowHydrogen

So @yobata what's the latest and greatest? I think you need to drag that thing up to N. FL this fall to test how well it poles, I'll volunteer to stand on the bow, I'll need to have a fishing rod with me.....strictly for a realistic performance test!!


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## yobata

LowHydrogen said:


> So @yobata what's the latest and greatest? I think you need to drag that thing up to N. FL this fall to test how well it poles, I'll volunteer to stand on the bow, I'll need to have a fishing rod with me.....strictly for a realistic performance test!!


Football has started for me so my weekdays are now 7:30am-7pm every day, and the last couple of weekends have been filled so not much work... I'm hoping to sand the decks and lay glass this weekend, then fair next weekend... 

Also, I'm totally open to meeting up after the season up north!


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## wahooper

I live in hudson and have the same exact boat and was looking to do this to mine. I would love to meet up and see this work in progress.


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## yobata

wahooper said:


> I live in hudson and have the same exact boat and was looking to do this to mine. I would love to meet up and see this work in progress.


I actually bought this hull from a guy in port Richie which I think is close to you. But I am on the east coast - melbourne. If you ever come eastward I'd be happy to take you for a ride. I think that I will be finished with her by the end of the weekend - that's the plan at least.

In the meantime I am happy to explain anything or take more photos of anything that is unclear. 

The great thing about these kinds of builds is that you can really personalize you skiff as long as you know what you want. Take for instance the cockpit floor - I originally planned to make a flat sole/liner but after working on the front and rear deck I decided that it's not needed and that I would only be adding additional weight. But it's something that can still be added later should I change my mind again...


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## yobata

Roundover bit on router to break the edges on the decks, and 6oz cloth over everything. Trimmed glass, skim coat to cover the weave, sanded, coated the rub rail 3 times with epoxy, more sanding, fairing compound (I used QuikFair by System 3), more sanding....

I believe that I am to the point where I can begin to prime and paint (other than making the hatch lid). But I will hold off on the paint work until I take a water test first. I hung the motor on there temporarily (just the clamps for now) and ran the fuel line to the 6 gallon portable under the front deck. Tested the motor on the hose/earmuffs. Runs pretty well for sitting in the garage for 6+months. May take the carbs apart and soak in some seafoam...

Here are some photos of the progress


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## LowHydrogen

looks like it's getting super close, is this boat getting a name?


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## yobata

Yes, since the graphite/epoxy bottom is black and everything else is white my thoughts drifted to an orca. My wife's favorite orca is Tilikum so I had a friend put together some sample fonts for a set of vinyl decals. I'm a little indecisive about my choices. Do you have any input on which looks most appealing?









I was also trying to keep the font somewhat block so that the vessel numbers will match the decal in the back... I believe the regulations are 3" block lettering


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## ceejkay

man that looks superb. your really going to appreciate the extra step of making it smooth. As far as font i would go with the one under the image


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## LowHydrogen

yobata said:


> Yes, since the graphite/epoxy bottom is black and everything else is white my thoughts drifted to an orca. My wife's favorite orca is Tilikum so I had a friend put together some sample fonts for a set of vinyl decals. I'm a little indecisive about my choices. Do you have any input on which looks most appealing?
> View media item 1204
> I was also trying to keep the font somewhat block so that the vessel numbers will match the decal in the back... I believe the regulations are 3" block lettering


cool name. I like that design with the whale and the fly, I like the block letters, I also think times new Roman would look good. There's another font called papyrus that looks pretty cool but you'd probably need it bold to stay close to your FL #S


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## classyhooker

yobata said:


> Haha my confidence in the plan is rising by the minute...
> 
> A little update
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rear bulkhead tabbed in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Added a drain tube


If the drain goes under the deck/floor, where does the top of the drain come out? Do you have a pic of this? Thanks! Love this project.


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## yobata

classyhooker said:


> If the drain goes under the deck/floor, where does the top of the drain come out? Do you have a pic of this? Thanks! Love this project.


Thanks! The cockpit originally had a trough right down the middle - it is actually the top of the keel of these johnsen skiffs since they are not cored. I thought for a long time (and am still unsure about the decision) whether or not I should put in a floor in the whole boat including the cockpit. My friend talked me out of it because the current floor isn't that curvy to make it uncomfortable to walk around, so instead I filled the trough with 2 part foam, cut level with an undercut saw and glassed the top with 6" 12 oz biax tape and then a layer of 12 oz biax cloth over the whole cockpit area. I only left a small amount (shaped with a red Solo cup as the foam was expanding) of the trough empty - this is the area where the top of the drain tube sits. It should be useful in directing any water to the back splash well/motor well area where a bilge pump would hopefully empty it out... I don't have any close-ups of it, but I do have this photo which may provide some visual help









The black area to the right of the photo is the cavity where the top of the drain tube starts. It is black because I had some extra epoxy mixed with graphite left over from the bottom of the hull and didn't want to waste it that day. You can see the foam filled trough (yellow) and some of the edges are brown from where I filled with thickened epoxy as the foam is sometimes hard to control and did not evenly fill the area to its edges...

The cockpit floor is the ugliest part of this skiff - some fairing putty and paint may help, but I think the flat sole/cockpit deck decision may bother me later. It also makes it very difficult to add a grab bar...


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## classyhooker

What would you have done differently? Just picked up a very similar skiff for peanuts and I'm trying to get my game plan together!


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## classyhooker

classyhooker said:


> What would you have done differently? Just picked up a very similar skiff for peanuts and I'm trying to get my game plan together!


Oh, just saw the first part of your reply! Great resource. Thank you!


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## yobata

classyhooker said:


> Oh, just saw the first part of your reply! Great resource. Thank you!


I highly suggest reading thru some of the build threads in this section (bragging section). I got a lot of ideas from the other builds including @firecat1981 @LWalker and others. Also maybe check out the Bateau forums - some good threads there too. 

Good luck and please post lots of photos!


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## EvanT

Hey Yobata,
I'm new to the forum and I am about to start my first rebuild on a 1972 Kennedy Kraft. I have read through your thread as well as several others on here to help with research before getting started. I have a few questions for you about your build if you don't mind answering.

1. Is the thickened epoxy mixture you use in you build just a mixture of epoxy and wood flour? If so, what ratio of wood flour do your recommend adding to the epoxy mixture?
2. How much epoxy would you recommend ordering for a project similar to yours? I was thinking about using marinepoxy from boatbuildercentral.com.
3. When attaching the deck to the boat did you use any mechanical attachment such as screws or did you use strictly thickened epoxy and clamp down?
4. How did you attach the rub rail to the deck?

Sorry, I know that's a lot of questions but I'm trying to get all of the details ironed out before jumping into my own build.

Thanks for your assitance,
Evan


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## yobata

EvanT said:


> Hey Yobata,
> I'm new to the forum and I am about to start my first rebuild on a 1972 Kennedy Kraft. I have read through your thread as well as several others on here to help with research before getting started. I have a few questions for you about your build if you don't mind answering.
> 
> 1. Is the thickened epoxy mixture you use in you build just a mixture of epoxy and wood flour? If so, what ratio of wood flour do your recommend adding to the epoxy mixture?
> 2. How much epoxy would you recommend ordering for a project similar to yours? I was thinking about using marinepoxy from boatbuildercentral.com.
> 3. When attaching the deck to the boat did you use any mechanical attachment such as screws or did you use strictly thickened epoxy and clamp down?
> 4. How did you attach the rub rail to the deck?
> 
> Sorry, I know that's a lot of questions but I'm trying to get all of the details ironed out before jumping into my own build.
> 
> Thanks for your assitance,
> Evan


Hi Evan! Congrats on jumping into a build, and welcome to the site.

1. The thickened epoxy I used was indeed thickened with woodflour. As far as a ratio I never actually measured, I would add the woodflour, stir, and check for consistency. You will notice it going from being very viscous to caramel, and eventually peanut butter consistency. 
2. MarinEpoxy from BBC is great! If you are doing a similar sized project I would say get 6gallons. If you have leftover you can always use it for future repairs. I am lucky to live close to BBC and can pick up the stuff in person so I save a bit of cash for shipping/delivery charges...
3. No mechanical attachments for deck. I didn't even necessarily clamp down the deck all the way around. Instead I positioned objects with some weight on top. I was concerned about these bonds as well, but Jacquez from BBC explained that you actually want a little gap between the deck and the rolled gunnel - filled with the thickened epoxy. He says the bigger that gap the stronger the bond will be. You can always use fiberglass tape on the inside if you find that the bond isn't to your liking...
4. The rub rail was attached by spreading thickened epoxy on the contact side of it and clamping it to the overhanging deck. I also added a small fillet of thickened epoxy to the inside. And finally, I fiber glassed the top of the deck after adding the rub rail, so I was able to let that cloth hang over the rub rail thereby glassing it in. Make sure you use a router to round over the edge so that the cloth will lay down easily...

Good luck! Ask any question you have, there are lots of knowledgable and experienced builders on this site willing to help


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## ceejkay

Any updates?


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## LowHydrogen

ceejkay said:


> Any updates?


What he said^


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## yobata

ceejkay said:


> Any updates?


Little bit of a holding pattern. 

I took the boat out a few times, the cockpit floor flexes when under full power. So I will end up adding that floor in after all, but I have a bigger work project that will last 2 more weeks. After that I can make the adjustment.

On the plus side, motor was reliable and pretty fast (no numbers yet) and we caught a few snook


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## LowHydrogen

Glad you got her in the water.
For what it's worth my old Gheenoe used to flex in chop from the day I got it. It only had a 6hp, ran it for years with no issues. I read somewhere that the fatigue limit of fiberglass is crazy high. I bet you could run it as is, for a long long time, unless it bothers you.


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## ceejkay

mine flexes really bad with a 1/2" floor. I'm considering a coffin in the middle to stiffen it up. like it's so bad that a cooler full of ice weighing about 40lbs bounces about 3" of the deck


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## yobata

My buddy was sitting on a cooler in the middle of the floor, and he didn't appreciate bouncing up and down 3" - he was a bit worried that the whole thing would rip apart. 

These boats are not cored. As far as I can tell it is just chopper gun glass and a layer of woven roving. 

The plan is to put some small stringers (1"x2" dimensional lumber pine) and a few ribs, fill with 2 part foam 2# variety, and glass in a 3/8" ply floor. I have all the materials already except more epoxy which I can drive to Vero Beach and snag on a Saturday. It was always a point of contention for me whether or not to install the floor. It won't take long and since the boat is usable as is, it won't stop me from any trips out...

I stepped off the front deck onto the floor and it felt very wimpy. For the area of the IRL that I fish I don't think the draft loss of adding that little bit of weight (1/2"?) will matter too much.


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## ceejkay

you should be fine. i know our boats are different, but i need to be in knee deep to run. if im at lower calf i can use my trolling motor. and at ankle I'm starting to scrape if I'm not in the boat or on the bow. I'm 5'6" if it matters


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## yobata

I have been finishing the boat less and fishing her more. Kind of a lazy move on my part... Anyway, decided the 15' push pole I was using (old pole vaulting pole from a track coach I know) was not long enough. He gave me another section that was 13'. I cut off about of foot on each end (he gave them to me because they were cracked), sanded the inside and used a 12" length of 3/4" dowel as a ferrule. I coated the dowel and the inside of the two sections with epoxy, waited 15 minutes, mixed some thickened epoxy, coated ferrule and inside of the two sections. pushed everything together and then layered two coats of 6oz cloth on the outside. Once it cures will sand, and fair. Later I will cut off some of it (after cutting about a foot off each end, the two sections are now 13' and 11' for a total of 24'-ish); on my 14' boat, it will be impractical to trailer and store. I am hoping that 18' will be okay...

















Then I decided I needed some push pole holders. I am not quite sure what kind of plastic this is, a friend of mine got this piece of scrap from a guy who installs public bathroom partitions (no glory hole references please):
















I cleaned it up and roundover the edges on the router, but I think they will work. I made them a little tall only because I wanted the screws that will go in from under the deck to have a substantial amount of material to grab...


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## ceejkay

thats a pretty good idea. i bet they would make a good stick anchor as well.


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## yobata

Cleaned up the push pole holders today and put on a roundover. Still needs a bit of light sanding, but not bad... Routers are the best!!


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## yobata

Been using the boat, but the cockpit floor flexes too much. So with the advice of several awesome forum members, I went ahead and added stringers, ribs, drain tube, foam and a cockpit floor (sole).
Here are some progress photos...
















I added a little drain spot. wont look super great but it will be functional...






























Made a template and cut out the new cockpit floor (sole):























Going to put 6oz fabric on the bottom and top of the sole (and tab in with 6" tape). Also adding a grab bar before the sole gets epoxied to the stringers and ribs so that I can thru-bolt it.


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## wahooper

What method did you use to bond the decks to the bulkheads and the hull?


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## yobata

wahooper said:


> What method did you use to bond the decks to the bulkheads and the hull?


Coat the bulkheads and hull sides, and any other supports that the deck will sit on, with neat epoxy about 20 minutes before laying a thick bead of thickened epoxy. (I used woodflour but other thickeners work well also). Then simply lay the deck on without moving it very much, but a little nestling or wiggling back and worth it ok. Weigh the deck down a bit (you don't need a lot of weight, as you don't want to squeeze out the thickened epoxy completely), and let cure overnight. I then filleted the underside of the decks to the support structures including bulkheads and hull sides.

I also waited to fiberglass the tops of the decks to the rubrail and the interior rails of the cockpit until it was bonded to the bulkheads and sides of the hull. This also helps add another bond between the deck and those rails, especially the interior cockpit rails.


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## ceejkay

thats something i wish i would have done. but for now its not terrible. for the drain box you could router out a little from the deck, something like .040-.060" deep. and then get a piece of aluminum or stainless cut to the same size. drill some holes or make small slots, polish or paint it. i think it would look pretty good and still allow the deck to drain


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## yobata

ceejkay said:


> thats something i wish i would have done. but for now its not terrible. for the drain box you could router out a little from the deck, something like .040-.060" deep. and then get a piece of aluminum or stainless cut to the same size. drill some holes or make small slots, polish or paint it. i think it would look pretty good and still allow the deck to drain


They also make some plastic or starboard drain covers and Boathouse Discount Marine (my local shop) has them in stock, but they are all round. For now I will just go with the "hole in the floor" method lol


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## yobata

Bedded and tabbed in the cockpit floor/sole. I also added a grab bar before bonding the cockpit floor to the ribs and stringers so that I was able to thru bolt it (5200 just to make sure this wasn't a place where water would find its way into all that foam).

















I also worked on the rear hatch today but there are no pics because it was mostly sanding and laying out the little pieces of dimensional pine that will fit inside the gutters. I did bond those to the underside of the hatch. Hopefully it will all fit tomorrow.


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## LowHydrogen

That thing is really coming together. Have you decided what colors you're going to use on the inside?


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## yobata

LowHydrogen said:


> That thing is really coming together. Have you decided what colors you're going to use on the inside?


Probably just plain old white. I do like the Kingston gray color, considering doing a two tones of gray between the slick edges and the non-skid, but already have some white on hand.

The wife doesn't want any paint at all, she likes the look of the plywood and epoxy al la Brett's glass slipper

The insides of the gunnels will get white primer and white paint and then carpet if I can figure out a good way to cut it so the edges don't fray. Any ideas on this? Hot wire knife to "cauterize" the edges?


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## LowHydrogen

Cool. Never done any boat carpet with the exception of some of the outdoor carpet type stuff in a buddies River boat, and it's all synth, although the hot wire sounds like it should work.


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## yobata

Hatch built and glassed. Will need more sanding and fairing. Still sanding the sole (pictures taken prior to start of that, yes I'm very itchy at the moment).


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## LowHydrogen

Hatch looks good. 

I've been grinding a bit of fiberglass myself lately.

This thread has me thinking I may finally start a thread in the big boat section on my Mako project (saga). It's been in progress on and off since spring of '13 lol. On the home stretch now though. I hope......


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## yobata

LowHydrogen said:


> Hatch looks good.
> 
> I've been grinding a bit of fiberglass myself lately.
> 
> This thread has me thinking I may finally start a thread in the big boat section on my Mako project (saga). It's been in progress on and off since spring of '13 lol. On the home stretch now though. I hope......


Please post, I love seeing boat builds by individuals! 

The great production boat threads in the Bragging Sections are very cool and have beatiful finished products, but there's something about a DIY build that is so much more impressive in my opinion! Maybe it's the patience, skills, or just the custom aspect (no molds to guide you)... hope to see your progression soon!


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## LowHydrogen

Mostly just a rehab and unclutter (she's going topless) to optimize for open water feather tossing. I do have some nice teak & mahogany in the works though.


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## ceejkay

not to derail your post to much yabota. but i hear ya lowhydrogen on the big boats. ive been building my aquasport for almost 2 years. it seems like i make some headway and then change the way i want to do something. unfortunately have to do things a bit differently on a big boat


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## yobata

Routed out a spot for both hinges, 3 coats of epoxy, overdrilled the holes, filled with thickened epoxy, set hinges, and rolled on the first coat of primer and started sanding...


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## yobata

White slicks (don't worry, the paint was dry at this point)









Taped off






















Non-skid on (very light gray)























I think it is still drying since last night, hence the slight color spots. Hoping this will go away with time...


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## LowHydrogen

Looks awesome! Cockpit looks bigger now for some reason.


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## 1shotmike

What a cool little boat! Awesome job, you should be very proud. Almost..ALMOST motivates me to start re-doing the Shallow Sport!!


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## yobata

1shotmike said:


> What a cool little boat! Awesome job, you should be very proud. Almost..ALMOST motivates me to start re-doing the Shallow Sport!!


Thanks mike! I'm very happy with it! Ran 29mph with the beat up stock prop on the 25hp Yamaha 2 stroke and full tank of gas without another passenger.

The other day at the boat ramp a guy with a 17.8 pro was checking her out and I felt pretty good about having something unique...


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## 1shotmike

yobata said:


> Thanks mike! I'm very happy with it! Ran 29mph with the beat up stock prop on the 25hp Yamaha 2 stroke and full tank of gas without another passenger.
> 
> The other day at the boat ramp a guy with a 17.8 pro was checking her out and I felt pretty good about having something unique...


That's the best part! Plus you did it yourself!


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## Backcountry 16

Looks bad ass yobata good job on it.


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## jonrconner

Nice work, and it will always be unique! Also represents thoughtful work rather than a big check and the implications thereof.
JC


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## HoustonCometsStillBumpin

Looks great. Huge effort = huge outcome.


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## THX1138

Bro, that's pretty sick. I really dig it.

Lou


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## 1shotmike

I am very interested to know how the epoxy/graphite bottom works out for you. I have a couple of applications in mind, and in theory, it should be awesome.


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## yobata

1shotmike said:


> I am very interested to know how the epoxy/graphite bottom works out for you. I have a couple of applications in mind, and in theory, it should be awesome.


Working great so far. Have beached the boat a dozen or so times and does not show any visible damage (just sand). Haven't been around many oysters or anything sharp like that... the way it is supposed to work isn't so much of a protective barrier, but the graphite epoxy mix allows the skiff to "slide" over objects more easily. Check out the Bateau forum, lots of those builders are using it


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## 1shotmike

Thank you, actually my main interest was for my airboat, so sliding is the main deal. I have steel flex on my aluminum boat now, was thinking of adding the graphite to a steel flex mix. I know this is way off topic, so I'll can it, may pm you later. Thanks a bunch, love your boat.


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## SilentHunter

Wish i glassed. My hull smooth before I put a floor in it... seeing your build makes me wanna take a cutoff wheel and start cutting my floor out and staring over lol


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## Mike C

Just a heads
The tampa craigslist had one of these hulls two days ago.
It's an 11 footer with trailer for like $600.
Boat is in spring hill


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## Carivera

tomahawk said:


> Definitely do the graphite. I used it on a Gheenoe I'm re-doing. I did not use it on my skiff, but wish I had. I put Gatorglide on it and for what it costs I'm not that impressed with its durability...
> The graphite was like $7 a pound which is enough to do probably three skiffs.


 Would it work to do the entire bottom rather than painting it? would the color hold up?


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## tomahawk

Carivera said:


> Would it work to do the entire bottom rather than painting it? would the color hold up?


The epoxy graphite holds up great. Yes, do the whole bottom.


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## Angel Sanchez-Figueras

Just found this one Yobata. EXCELLENT. Getting close to pulling the trigger on mine. Funny thing is how many iterations you go through in your mind while you are demolishing what's there. I'm still not sure of what the final product will be....but I guess it will evolve as I get further into it. This has been a great motivator and a great example sir. Great job.

Angel


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## Finn Maccumhail

yobata said:


> White slicks (don't worry, the paint was dry at this point)
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> Non-skid on (very light gray)
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> I think it is still drying since last night, hence the slight color spots. Hoping this will go away with time...


Looks great. Where did you get that grab bar?


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## yobata

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Looks great. Where did you get that grab bar?


Its from Fishmaster (I think they're in Georgia). It was $120 (shipping included if I remember correctly) and has held up really well. I specified that I wanted the thru-bolt option instead of the screw in. It also comes apart from the base if you want to remove it for any particular reason. And the base plate has holes in it which you can run wires for fishfinder if you choose. On mine, I just put a thin layer of 5200 in that part because I didn't want the FF.

https://fishmaster.com/deck-mounted-grab-bar.html


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## Zika

Pretty work, Yobata, pretty work!


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## pontiyak

Photobucket broke the internet.... any chance you could provide a link straight to the gallery?


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## yobata

pontiyak said:


> Photobucket broke the internet.... any chance you could provide a link straight to the gallery?


I will try and re-post all the photos for this thread this weekend thru microskiffs photo upload feature. Photobucket really shafted a lot of us!


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## pontiyak

Link works. Thank you!


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## yobata

Bump for a complete repost of all the pics using this site's "upload a file" feature.


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## Cut Runner

Looks good! You say you are by fiberglass florida, the stuart location or rockledge?


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## yobata

Cut Runner said:


> Looks good! You say you are by fiberglass florida, the stuart location or rockledge?


Rockledge - I'm in Melbourne


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## GrouperHunter

This is a great build. Beautiful work. I joined this forum because of this thread. I’m considering a Johnsen project. Thanks for posting your progress.- Chris from Naples


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## permitchaser

yobata said:


> Yes, since the graphite/epoxy bottom is black and everything else is white my thoughts drifted to an orca. My wife's favorite orca is Tilikum so I had a friend put together some sample fonts for a set of vinyl decals. I'm a little indecisive about my choices. Do you have any input on which looks most appealing?
> View attachment 27897
> 
> 
> I was also trying to keep the font somewhat block so that the vessel numbers will match the decal in the back... I believe the regulations are 3" block lettering


I like the 3rd one down with the big loop. That way you could have the Orca jump through the loop
IMHO


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## permitchaser

Yobata 
Are you planning a bilge pump like a 1250 GPH
Are you planning a PP platform or a cooler
You’ll find your PP is too short


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## derf1865

permitchaser said:


> Yobata
> Are you planning a bilge pump like a 1250 GPH
> Are you planning a PP platform or a cooler
> You’ll find your PP is too short


It's not good when you find out your PP is too short the hard way...


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## yobata

permitchaser said:


> Yobata
> Are you planning a bilge pump like a 1250 GPH
> Are you planning a PP platform or a cooler
> You’ll find your PP is too short


I never installed a bilge pump, although there is one sitting in my garage waiting to be put in. So far no PP, just a cooler on the back deck - it's been working OK.


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