# Does your skiff draft 6 inches?



## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

This is what 6 inches looks like. (Please excuse the left gastrocnemius atrophy, it's secondary to a heinous Achilles' tendon rupture in '01). Anyways, depth can be deceiving. I'm 6ft tall so ~2 ft is around my knee cap.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

And may I say.....................AMEN!!! I sure hope nobody starts a thread about the lack of a highly engineered, surgically produced measuring device and the accuracy thereof. May you all catch your fish of a lifetime, this year, in SKINNY water!!


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## "RockyG" (Aug 3, 2014)

My LT-25 floats in less than that.

Now.....with my big arse on board......well.....it depends on which end I'm standing on.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I can honestly say that my skiff, with me in it and the livewell full will still draft under 6 inches. With 2 on board it might be slightly over.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Mine doesn't come close #Sadface


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Mine is 8"-9". But I can still catch fish. I know that is amazing cause all good fish are in 6"


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## KnotHome (Jul 21, 2009)

With me standing on the bow, my flat bottom Stumpknocker style skiff could get around 4-5 with a 15 horse and 6ish gallons of fuel. I only used that ability 2 or 3 times in 7 years of ownership and never caught a fish when I was dragging the bottom that shallow.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

I personally refuse to fish on anything that drafts over 3.2875679". That's just my preference though


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

Very few boats can really draft this with 2 anglers and normally set up. In many fisheries, this is not really that important anyway - it is just a point for us to compare dick size. Any boat that will really do it will rattle your fillings out in a chop, also. If your boat has any type of vee bottom, you can take it off the list. In my view, to try to get to this number from 8", you give up quite a bit in terms of versatility.


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

MSG said:


> Very few boats can really draft this with 2 anglers and normally set up. In many fisheries, this is not really that important anyway - it is just a point for us to compare dick size. Any boat that will really do it will rattle your fillings out in a chop, also. If your boat has any type of vee bottom, you can take it off the list. In my view, to try to get to this number from 8", you give up quite a bit in terms of versatility.


I should have added, there are certain fisheries and times where it does matter - but I think we place too much emphasis on this


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

SUV14 with rolled gunnel, 25 hp 2 stroke, 3 gallon fuel cell in the front and back, 35 amp/hr AGM battery, micro power pole, 2 anglers, and a 12 pack of gas station beers. The boat draws about 5 inches with this load. It's a pretty light boat, light enough two of us have picked it up and launched off the side of the road. 

I doubt anything under about 7 inches really matters. Unless you're fishing over bottom that you absolutely do not want to bump into, but if you're not rubbing you're not fishing. The only thing a 5 inch draft allows me to do is push over 2-3 inches of water with a soft mud bottom. I use this to my advantage from time to time but I could just as easily find another way in to those spots.

I don't even think that a kayak will draw less than 4 or 5 inches.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Nice looking ankle but it's easier for me to think of 6" as the length of a dollar bill...that's money shallow..$$$.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

MSG said:


> Very few boats can really draft this with 2 anglers and normally set up. In many fisheries, this is not really that important anyway - it is just a point for us to compare dick size. Any boat that will really do it will rattle your fillings out in a chop, also. If your boat has any type of vee bottom, you can take it off the list. In my view, to try to get to this number from 8", you give up quite a bit in terms of versatility.


Well, I have to disagree with you on comparing schwanzstuckers. I think there is an honest misconception over perceived depth/draft. After all, one's perception becomes one's reality, whether it's correct or not. I just don't think most folks have busted out a ruler and realize how incredibly shallow it is.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Megalops said:


>



Joe (Megalops), didn't you get the memo that Crocs were "*out*?"


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Backwater said:


> Joe (Megalops), didn't you get the memo that Crocs were "*out*?"


Out! that's all I wear.....


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

stephenchurch said:


> Out! that's all I wear.....


Ask the women around you and they'll tell you it's a "fashion malfunction" and that they went out about 6yrs ago. Ha!

But don't worry, it's not a total loss. Goodwill will be happy to take them!


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Lol, but they're so comfy!


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Megalops said:


> Lol, but they're so comfy!


My favorites, I have about 4 pairs. Good until the gnats find the holes in the shoes.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

By the look of the Crocs....they seem to draft right around 3", maybe less if you put a HB sticker on em'


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Backwater said:


> Joe (Megalops), didn't you get the memo that Crocs were "*out*?"


Hey, just wait a second. Fashion tips from this Mofo!!! Lol!


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Mine static drafts about 8" with me in the stern. When I am in the bow, it should float in 5-6" based on the pics that my wife has taken. I've beached it on sand bars many times when running. When I get out to push, the water is about 3" deep and it takes about a boat length to stick at that depth, so I estimate that I can hop across a creek mouth sand bar that is 10-15' wide.

Draft is of over-rated importance when fishing. I've seen a couple of situations when fish were working in the trough next to the grass and I couldn't get across the flat between me and them, but I doubt a boat that drafted 6" could have either and that specific situation is rare. I'd happily draw another 1" of draft for a bit of vee towards the bow of my boat when fishing.

Shallow draft only becomes really important when you duck hunt. When hunting, my boat tracks like an arrow when poling... ...because the keel is usually in mud. I was always rubbing bottom and hitting stumps. Every inch of draft will eventually be the difference between getting back to the launch or cuddling up with your dog to wait for the next tide change. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but I had buddies get stuck on an afternoon hunt and not have enough water to get in until 2 am. That gets cold and miserable.

Nate


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

WhiteDog70810 said:


> Draft is of over-rated importance when fishing.


If you're drowning shrimp at a creek mouth, draft doesn't matter much.

If you're poling your fly fishing buddy across a flat on a winter negative low, its matters a ton.

It really depends on where you are fishing and how IMHO.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Megalops said:


> Hey, just wait a second. Fashion tips from this Mofo!!! Lol!


Notice the flip flops! Lol Hey, ya gotta love that pic!

I like this one better!



Sorry, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread!  

Realistically, I draft over 9"..... No ruler needed! lol


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

The guys saying draft doesn't matter are fishing different areas the the guys needing sub 6" numbers so there's not much point to the debate because it's an apples and oranges issue. My 6" draft has saved my butt more times then I can count. Are there fish in 6" of water, not usually, but they will be back in the holes you get to across the 6" area. 

That being said I will changing my boat soon. Yes it drafts nothing, actually 3.5" with no one in it so it's easy to push off when we get stuck, but it's not made for crossing open waters or for a family. Knowing I'll be going to a boat that drafts 7-9" may not seem like much difference from 6", but I know I'll have to stay away from any winter lowtide honey holes I've found in favor of fishing bridges with my kids.

Like we always say, there is no perfect boat, and they are all a compromise in some way.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

firecat1981 said:


> The guys saying draft doesn't matter are fishing different areas the the guys needing sub 6" numbers so there's not much point to the debate because it's an apples and oranges issue. My 6" draft has saved my butt more times then I can count. Are there fish in 6" of water, not usually, but they will be back in the holes you get to across the 6" area.
> 
> That being said I will changing my boat soon. Yes it drafts nothing, actually 3.5" with no one in it so it's easy to push off when we get stuck, but it's not made for crossing open waters or for a family. Knowing I'll be going to a boat that drafts 7-9" may not seem like much difference from 6", but I know I'll have to stay away from any winter lowtide honey holes I've found in favor of fishing bridges with my kids.
> 
> Like we always say, there is no perfect boat, and they are all a compromise in some way.


Yep. I have 4 grandson I fish with and after some shallow Reds we have to cross the Cape Fear River. It's nice to have a V


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Net 30 said:


> By the look of the Crocs....they seem to draft right around 3", maybe less if you put a HB sticker on em'


Yea, but those Crocs don't have a 60hp E-tec on them


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Backwater said:


> Notice the flip flops! Lol Hey, ya gotta love that pic!
> 
> I like this one better!
> 
> ...


Ted, you've got the green light to hijack any thread of mine!!! Lol.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

firecat1981 said:


> I'll be going to a boat that drafts 7-9" may not seem like much difference from 6", but I know I'll have to stay away from any winter lowtide honey holes I've found in favor of fishing bridges with my kids.


We'll welcome you to the *dark side* (9"+/-)!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Joe (Megalops), as you know, I'm 6'2-3" (depending on if I'm standing straight up or not) and weigh about 230lbs. (which I really need to loose a good 20lbs+/-, Ha!). That being said, this winter and spring, I poled my buddy Ken's Arkona Cheyenne around a few times, often in skinny water. He's a big brotha like you and I too. I would venture to say if you took that ole school ruler of yours and measured the draft at the transom of that Cheyenne with my fat ass up on the poling platform giving it a good forcible push forward, you'll find that it'll get close to that 9" mark, if not more. That's real world numbers. I do have to admit that it was nice to jump out of the boat (both of us) and slide it over some skinny shizzit to keep from gettin stranded when the tide was dropping. That being said, maybe that was 6" with fuel and gear on-board.

You and I both live and fish in and around Tampa Bay. It would be safe to say that 90% of the fishing there doesn't require a skinny skiff to fish it. So breaking down the skinny stuff.... It's tough to find fish in less than a foot of water that are not edgy due to the shallow water, not to mention, less than 9" of water. Like firecat said "it's more for getting *to* the pot holes!" Mosquito Lagoon can be a different story, tho sad to say, that fishery has taken a blow to the head for a while with the fish kill they recently had.

But if you know how to navigate the flats where the cuts through the flats are slightly deeper, you can navigate to those holes with a skiff that drafts slightly deeper and you'll find that the fish also follows those cuts onto the flats on the incoming tide as well. So it's still reasonable to fish with a skiff that drafts more than 6". Just sayin.....

The real problem is most of those "really good, far removed from the crowds flats" that you want to get to, requires open water to cross. Tampa Bay seems to have 90% of it's days with a windy chop and makes it a PITA to get to. Not so bad tho if you lived in an area that has intercoastal waterways to protect against heavy chop. But TB doesn't have a lot of that. So with 90% of it's water being big open water, with normal winds, it makes for some tough runnin. So most of the time you have to make those decision with a skinny skiff that;

1.) I'm going to have to get beat up and soaked to get to that flat...
2.) I'm not going to "that flat" and will just fish around inside or around the boat ramp area...
3.) I'll talk my buddy into taking his boat that drafts more for a better ride and then we can fish for other open water oppertunities...
4') Stay home, yet again, to build more brownie points for the Mrs. and do some chores around the house and and end up watchin the football game, instead.

As permitchaser says..... "It's nice to have a V" and in breaking it down in so many words "It's nice to be able to run to those flats (well not so skinny flats) and not get so wet and beat up from the ride and still have the ability to fish some bigger, more open water stuff that will also produce some very nice fishing opportunities, even if it's a little choppy out there."

But hey, this IS a "microskiff" forum and we are suppose to chat about microskiffs that go in skinny water, right? 

An interesting memory about a skiff I had my eyes back in the early 90's was a flat's skiff called (of all things) a "Skinny Water." They had an 18' & a 16'. They both had low freeboards and the 18 drafted about 12" with big power, but the 16' drafted 9" with a 60hp OB, which I thought was an ideal skinny skiff that could run open water to those flats and still pole up on them. An ole friend of my "Bob Brown" on No Name Key, bought one and I think he still has it and is in the process of rehabbing the boat. Anyway I thought that was amazing skiff but didn't feel the need for it since I kept a bigger boat for bigger water and a 14ft Johnsen skiff with a 15hp Johnson OB tiller on back, for the tidal creeks and skinny flats. Then Johnsen came out with a 16ft basic skiff (3 bench seats) that would run a 30-40hp tiller on it. I was considering it until I had the opportunity to get my hands on a flats boat that would run open water and still get me into a flat with 12" of water on it. I figured bigger, deeper water = bigger fish. The lil Johnsen skiff didn't see any more action after that.

Then in January of `98 I saw Flip at a fly fishing show Largo Florida (About a mile or 2 from Bill Jackson's place) and he was talkin up a new skiff he had help design that looked nothing more than a modified Johnsen 16ft skiff they had modified and put a flats boat deck on. We talked about the name of the company and I reflected with him fishing HB several times many years ago in the mid 80's, along with other places in and around Flamingo. Anyways, the boat wasn't much to look at and the hatches and storage wasn't much either since there were plenty of flats boat mfg's that had way better fit and finish than that skiff. So it looked more like a minimalist hybrid between a flats boat and that Johnsen skiff. I think he said their 1st run basic hull were going for $6900 and the 2nd run was expected to be $2000 more than that, which I thought was kinda high for a modified Johnsen skiff, which you could buy for around $1800. I never thought it would take off like it did.

Ok, there you have it! My dose of pontification on the subject! 

Ted Haas


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Tampa Bay seems to have 90% of it's days with a windy chop and makes it a PITA to get to.


As big as Tampa Bay is, its definitely nice to be able to cross water. 

That's the main reason I have not downsized to a tiller skiff.

Even still...certain areas (like the upper bay) are microskiff areas for sure during winter.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

It's really hard to judge depth and most people overestimate how shallow their rig can run. Nobody carries a measuring tape out on the boat with them. I have a tunnel and can run on plane a good deal shallower than I can draft at rest, but the ability to run shallow water on plane is most important and allows me to access areas that might be a long distance shallow run to the creek. Once I'm in the creek it's almost always deeper there, but I do scrape bottom getting into and out of some areas of the really shallow creeks. It would take me forever to pole/troll to these spots, and the ability to run shallow often allows me to fish places few other people do, and I like that. Honestly though, familiarity with my fishing areas is what matters most. I can and have run Gheenoes and my tunnel hull aground. Once again, shallow water is difficult to judge the depth of


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

crboggs said:


> As big as Tampa Bay is, its definitely nice to be able to cross water.
> 
> That's the main reason I have not downsized to a tiller skiff.
> 
> Even still...certain areas (like the upper bay) are microskiff areas for sure during winter.


Chris, keep your Mako Flats boat and use it for most of what TB has to offer and then get a Gheenoe 15'4 High Sider or an old Gheenoe Classic and put a 9.9-15hp kicker on the back and use it for upper TB, creeks, inside mangrove and freshwater fishing. Then you'll have the best of both worlds.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jimsmicro said:


> It's really hard to judge depth and most people overestimate how shallow their rig can run. Nobody carries a measuring tape out on the boat with them. I have a tunnel and can run on plane a good deal shallower than I can draft at rest, but the ability to run shallow water on plane is most important and allows me to access areas that might be a long distance shallow run to the creek. Once I'm in the creek it's almost always deeper there, but I do scrape bottom getting into and out of some areas of the really shallow creeks. It would take me forever to pole/troll to these spots, and the ability to run shallow often allows me to fish places few other people do, and I like that. Honestly though, familiarity with my fishing areas is what matters most. I can and have run Gheenoes and my tunnel hull aground. Once again, shallow water is difficult to judge the depth of


True!

However, a lot of places like Tampa Bay are going towards making those skinning flats a NMZ, so running them is not an option.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Backwater said:


> Joe (Megalops), as you know, I'm 6'2-3" (depending on if I'm standing straight up or not) and weigh about 230lbs. (which I really need to loose a good 20lbs+/-, Ha!). That being said, this winter and spring, I poled my buddy Ken's Arkona Cheyenne around a few times, often in skinny water. He's a big brotha like you and I too. I would venture to say if you took that ole school ruler of yours and measured the draft at the transom of that Cheyenne with my fat ass up on the poling platform giving it a good forcible push forward, you'll find that it'll get close to that 9" mark, if not more. That's real world numbers. I do have to admit that it was nice to jump out of the boat (both of us) and slide it over some skinny shizzit to keep from gettin stranded when the tide was dropping. That being said, maybe that was 6" with fuel and gear on-board.
> 
> You and I both live and fish in and around Tampa Bay. It would be safe to say that 90% of the fishing there doesn't require a skinny skiff to fish it. So breaking down the skinny stuff.... It's tough to find fish in less than a foot of water that are not edgy due to the shallow water, not to mention, less than 9" of water. Like firecat said "it's more for getting *to* the pot holes!" Mosquito Lagoon can be a different story, tho sad to say, that fishery has taken a blow to the head for a while with the fish kill they recently had.
> 
> ...


Backwater(Ted), are you related to Charles Dickens, perchance? Lol.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Nope. My panga needs 8" or more. Most of the time that's plenty but other times it's not.

I know this for sure because I got her stuck hard when I was out fishing on Sunday, 4/3. Saturday had seen north winds over 25mph for most of the day but Sunday was calm and there were several places with good, clear water. My first plan was to check a marsh lake that had been holding fish but the wind pushed the water out and I would have had to have been able to either run or pole over spots that were maybe 6". Without that north wind the water would normally be a 12-18" deep.

So I turned around and headed for plan B. I was running through a cut that would normally be about 18-24" deep but instead was down to about 6" and I got stuck hard. I know it was around 6" because the water didn't come over the top of my wading boots until I'd sunk in the mud a bit.

My partner and I pushed for a good while before 3 other guys came over and helped us. With 5 of us pushing we were able to skid over the mud in 6" but there's no way I could have poled through it. By the time we hit hard bottom and the water was a couple inches above my ankle (I'm 6'3") the panga was floating freely and moved like nothing.

We ended up finding a couple rat reds on another grass flat but when we got back to shore I met a fella running a little Beavertail (I forget which model) and they'd managed to catch some nice reds back in the same lake I originally wanted to fish but couldn't get to. And he even said they did a fair bit of sliding over the mud.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

This thread makes me wonder if the manufacturers are referring to fully loaded as without bodies in the boat just fuel and gear? After reading this post a few days ago I tied up to the dock at my watering hole and looked back just to get an idea of where she sat in the water without anyone on her. The spot I marked before heading home was measured in my garage at roughly 5-6" using a contractors level planed out across the bottom. I do however have an f70 on the back which shouldn't make too much difference from the original 02'merc 60 maybe 40lbs? Point being even if my 5-6' at rest without my 200lbs on the platform I would imagine it much deeper! I used to run a tunnel boat and enjoyed being able to run shallower than I could float but the ride is what I was after and will gladly take the sacrifice in draft to have a better ride.


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## lpg (Sep 1, 2015)

I have begun to realize how important weight dist. is. My boat use to be really ass heavy(240# motor, 2 batteries, powerpole) all behind the center console. 

Now, no powerpole, batteries forward, and full tank, my boat is stupid skinny. 

I think most people just dont have enough weight in the bow to really get as shallow as the boat would otherwise allow. Think about it, the heaviest thing on the boat is your motor(and people), so you gotta balance it out in the bow. 

my boat poles in 6" all day now.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

Kinda makes me wonder about the originally boat specs sheet from when my boat was built!

Boat Specs from 2002 Advertisement
Whipray™ 17.8 – Professional
Standard Features and Equipment
Weight: 395 pounds
*Draft: 3 1/2″fully rigged w/engine & fuel*
Length: 17’8″
Beam: 70″
Mfr. Recommended Power:Mercury™ 40 – 70hp


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

In my area if the tide gets too low for me to access some lakes, those fish will be crawling on the main shoreline anyway, so it's not really a deal breaker to me. This weekend I poled my new skiff up on a sand bar with another person on front, half a tank of fuel, a battery in the back and some gear. Got out and measured and it was somewhere between 6.5 and 7 inches. I'm happy with that being it's a tunnel, flat transom and a 30 e-tec hanging on 5" of setback. Oh and I'm 6'-5" and 230 pounds.

Btw, unless you have absolute dead calm conditions it's hard as heck to do something as simple as measure the water depth. Even the smallest ripples make things really hard to do.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Weight is everything if you want to go shallow. I take gear in and out of the skiff depending on what I think I might need for that day, down to fly boxes. The rod racks are hardly ever full. No anchor unless I need it. What I can not change is the weight and power of the current four cycle engines. When you bolt a four cycle on a super light skiff the stern squats. With the old 2s motors the skiff is level.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Backwater said:


> However, a lot of places like Tampa Bay are going towards making those skinning flats a NMZ, so running them is not an option.


I'd love to see many of the flats in the upper bay turned into NMZ areas.

It'll never happen though, since so many local guides like to run the flats en route to throwing chummers against the mangrove edges.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

jimsmicro said:


> It's really hard to judge depth and most people overestimate how shallow their rig can run. Nobody carries a measuring tape out on the boat with them. I have a tunnel and can run on plane a good deal shallower than I can draft at rest, but the ability to run shallow water on plane is most important and allows me to access areas that might be a long distance shallow run to the creek. Once I'm in the creek it's almost always deeper there, but I do scrape bottom getting into and out of some areas of the really shallow creeks. It would take me forever to pole/troll to these spots, and the ability to run shallow often allows me to fish places few other people do, and I like that. Honestly though, familiarity with my fishing areas is what matters most. I can and have run Gheenoes and my tunnel hull aground. Once again, shallow water is difficult to judge the depth of


If I jack my big fat motor up the 6 full inches I can idel in 1.5'. I don't know how shallow it runs on plane like that but it helps me not to get stuck. Thanks Backwater I'm joining the dark side. Hope the force doesn't kick us off here for having an engine bigger than 70 hp⛴


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> Nope. My panga needs 8" or more. Most of the time that's plenty but other times it's not.
> 
> I know this for sure because I got her stuck hard when I was out fishing on Sunday, 4/3. Saturday had seen north winds over 25mph for most of the day but Sunday was calm and there were several places with good, clear water. My first plan was to check a marsh lake that had been holding fish but the wind pushed the water out and I would have had to have been able to either run or pole over spots that were maybe 6". Without that north wind the water would normally be a 12-18" deep.
> 
> ...


Finn, the ole saying applies.... The grass is greener on the other side of the fence!  I'm sure those BT guys wish they had the ride of yours and the ability to chase "rod breakers" in 2ft seas.  For me, I'd much rather have your rig. You have more options for good fishing, especially where I live. It's hard to do all things with one boat and if you try, then sacrifices will have to be made and something's gonna give.  Yer better off knowing and respecting your boats limitations and stayin within those boundries. Then maybe find a friend that has that "other" boat that can do what your's can't and then swap trips to do so. 

Ted


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

[QUOTE=" Yer better off knowing and respecting your boats limitations and stayin within those boundries. Then maybe find a friend that has that "other" boat that can do what your's can't and then swap trips to do so. 

Ted[/QUOTE]
X1000.


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## Edfish (Jan 4, 2013)

How do you guys/gals measure the draft of your skiff when you're in it (and not standing at the transom)? I was going to devise a float-on-a-stick system, but maybe there is a much simpler and less silly solution?
Edit: and when you're alone. I guess this gets easy with someone else in the water...


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

Pole yourself until you rub bottom get out and measure?


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Edfish said:


> How do you guys/gals measure the draft of your skiff when you're in it (and not standing at the transom)? I was going to devise a float-on-a-stick system, but maybe there is a much simpler and less silly solution?
> Edit: and when you're alone. I guess this gets easy with someone else in the water...





ADicus said:


> Pole yourself until you rub bottom get out and measure?


You don't need to get out; just guesstimate using your push pole. Sandy bottoms help with accuracy. The first 2" of mud acts more like water and confounds your measurement.

Nate


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

This is what being able to run in 4" and float/launch in 6" looks like. The setup includes a custom cupped and vented prop, hydrofoil, and custom built combination jackplate/tnt unit that lets me run the cavitation plate 8.5" above the bottom of the transom. It's taken a lot of $$ and time to be able to do this, but it's more than worth it in my opinion. And before someone says it, this isn't so that I can run across grass flats. I know my regular waters and am very conscientious of what I'm doing. There are plenty of shallow areas without grass and even in some of the marked channels between the ramps and where I like to fish, and being able to jump up on plane in 6" of water has saved me hours of poling many times, especially in tidal areas.

In this video, we were down in Chokoloskee and were running the ditch at dead low, coming back from a morning of fishing. There were several boats stuck in the bays and nobody else in our group even considered navigating the entire distance between Chokoloskee and Everglades City with the tide like it was. Some had tried before the tide dropped fully and bottomed out between the channel markers you see at the end of the video. About 2/3 thru the video, you'll see we do get stuck due to pilot error. I went left when I should have stayed right, and if you watch as the ripples roll away the bottom is actually exposed. That's how shallow it was. We easily slid the boat over a few feet to where it was about 6" deep and jumped right back up on plane. You'll notice that my friend put his hand in the water to check the depth right before we launched and he didn't even get his sleeve wet. I've launched this shallow over a variety of bottom types and while some are easier than others, I can usually get going. Having a second person to sit on the front deck is a big help, as it keeps the boat from squatting at all.

Although I'm sure this'll seem like I'm bragging, and yes I am a little, I'm really just trying to show that it can be done and answer the original question.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Hamm3r that's awesome! Can't tell you how many times I've made someone lay on the front deck. Lol. Actually since I'm usually the fatter guy I should be up front but I figure if someone's running aground I want it to be me.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

HaMm3r that is doing something being able to get back up on plane where you were. Awesome video.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Backwater said:


> Finn, the ole saying applies.... The grass is greener on the other side of the fence!  I'm sure those BT guys wish they had the ride of yours and the ability to chase "rod breakers" in 2ft seas.  For me, I'd much rather have your rig. You have more options for good fishing, especially where I live. It's hard to do all things with one boat and if you try, then sacrifices will have to be made and something's gonna give.  Yer better off knowing and respecting your boats limitations and stayin within those boundries. Then maybe find a friend that has that "other" boat that can do what your's can't and then swap trips to do so.
> 
> Ted


Truth.

I've got friends who have technical skiffs to swap trips with. 

If the Minister of War & Finance would allow me to have 2 boats at present I'd probably have a bigger panga in the 22-24' range and a micro but since I can't I needed a compromise boat.

Basically the boat does everything I want to do and does it well except poling stupid skinny flats or go-fast on those same flats (which I'm not a fan of doing anyway). Plus, it's perfect for working the jetties or beach front and even running out to the short rigs on relatively calm days. And I can still do family outings so the kids can soak bait or pull a tube.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

HaMm3r said:


> This is what being able to run in 4" and float/launch in 6" looks like. The setup includes a custom cupped and vented prop, hydrofoil, and custom built combination jackplate/tnt unit that lets me run the cavitation plate 8.5" above the bottom of the transom. It's taken a lot of $$ and time to be able to do this, but it's more than worth it in my opinion. And before someone says it, this isn't so that I can run across grass flats. I know my regular waters and am very conscientious of what I'm doing. There are plenty of shallow areas without grass and even in some of the marked channels between the ramps and where I like to fish, and being able to jump up on plane in 6" of water has saved me hours of poling many times, especially in tidal areas.
> 
> In this video, we were down in Chokoloskee and were running the ditch at dead low, coming back from a morning of fishing. There were several boats stuck in the bays and nobody else in our group even considered navigating the entire distance between Chokoloskee and Everglades City with the tide like it was. Some had tried before the tide dropped fully and bottomed out between the channel markers you see at the end of the video. About 2/3 thru the video, you'll see we do get stuck due to pilot error. I went left when I should have stayed right, and if you watch as the ripples roll away the bottom is actually exposed. That's how shallow it was. We easily slid the boat over a few feet to where it was about 6" deep and jumped right back up on plane. You'll notice that my friend put his hand in the water to check the depth right before we launched and he didn't even get his sleeve wet. I've launched this shallow over a variety of bottom types and while some are easier than others, I can usually get going. Having a second person to sit on the front deck is a big help, as it keeps the boat from squatting at all.
> 
> Although I'm sure this'll seem like I'm bragging, and yes I am a little, I'm really just trying to show that it can be done and answer the original question.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Shure would like to see a photo of your motor/plate/jack, might be able to use that on my Glades X


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

stephenchurch said:


> Shure would like to see a photo of your motor/plate/jack, might be able to use that on my Glades X


The motor is a Mercury Sea Pro 25HP 2-stroke that I did the 30HP conversion on. For the combo JP/TNT unit, I took a PT35 and built a custom jackplate around it. The foil is a Stingray Starfire which is designed for a much bigger motor, but I modified it to fit and it gives me the best lift/anti-ventilation properties of any foil/plate I've tried. Fully jacked in normal running position, only 2" of the skeg sticks down below the hull. This setup will run in 4", launch in 6" and still tops out at almost 34MPH.

The second two pictures are stills from a GoPro I mounted on the transom. They show what running fully jacked looks like, and then just another still for reference from the same clip as I pulled the boat and trailer out of the water. I honestly didn't realize how little of the lower unit and prop was in water until I looked at this footage. I was shocked, to say the least.

I've been running this setup for two years now and wouldn't change a thing, except I have been experimenting with transom water pickups, just for the peace of mind. I did a recent impeller change and the old one was near perfect, but still I worry about water pressure sometimes.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

Very cool doesn't even seem possible but I guess it is!!


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

That's crazy. I don't see how your motor is getting any water. I like the gear shift cable setup. Never have seen one like that.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

Sublime said:


> That's crazy. I don't see how your motor is getting any water. I like the gear shift cable setup. Never have seen one like that.


The motor is really a rebranded Tohatsu and they come stock with two small water inlets on the underside of the bullet/gearcase, right at the top of the skeg. They are about midway front to back on the gearcase, so I've since determined that as water passes under the hull and then humps up behind the transom, those two inlets are being directly hit with the upward flow. That in turn forces water up into the impeller. It's a good design, but even so, I doubt the designers ever intended it to be run like this. Needless to say, I keep my head on a swivel while running it all the way up.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

My Classic does not run that shallow. Actually my Gheenoe has sorta been benched since I bought my tunnel hull Sea Ark, which does just about everything better than my Gheenoe. I still am having a hard time thinking about selling the Gheenoe since it's just such a fun boat.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

jimsmicro said:


> My Classic does not run that shallow. Actually my Gheenoe has sorta been benched since I bought my tunnel hull Sea Ark, which does just about everything better than my Gheenoe. I still am having a hard time thinking about selling the Gheenoe since it's just such a fun boat.


No, a Classic won't run as shallow as an LT. The Classic is narrower so it drafts more. However, it is a well known fact that the Classic hull is the fastest Gheenoe, all else being the same. So, you've got that advantage. Classics are in high demand too, so if you want to sell, I bet it'll go quick.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

My Classic hauls ass with the 30 on it, and it carves turns awesome, way better than my flat bottom Sea Ark. That's one of the best parts about it. But it's so nice to have room for a friend and all your shit, and it takes heavy seas a million times better than the Classic. I'm torn between pimping the Classic out with a rebuilt transom and a flat rear deck or even a small console, and just selling the damn thing all together...


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

jimsmicro said:


> My Classic hauls ass with the 30 on it, and it carves turns awesome, way better than my flat bottom Sea Ark. That's one of the best parts about it. But it's so nice to have room for a friend and all your shit, and it takes heavy seas a million times better than the Classic. I'm torn between pimping the Classic out with a rebuilt transom and a flat rear deck or even a small console, and just selling the damn thing all together...


Well, if you're calling it a "damn thing" I'd suggest selling it. You're obviously over it...

If you had front and rear decks on that Classic with storage underneath, you'd be surprised how much more roomy it feels. My LT25 is setup like that and I have more storage space than my friend's ECC Caimen. It makes a big difference.


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## Fireglide131 (Feb 5, 2016)

My ECS Glide definitely does with 2 guys and gear.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I recently did the "Rock Springs Run" in my Gheenoe LoL ! you know how shallow that is !


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## Ctniner1 (Jun 16, 2014)

I dont have a Cayo Boatworks 17.3 but it is on my short list. It is drafting 5.5" in this video. I also hear they ride very dry and will do very close to 30 mph with a 30 zuke and 2 people.






The Chittum Skiff SS is another boat that drafts under 6" but thats probably because your wallet is a little lighter after buying one  I have been in a Chittum Skiff (Legacy not SS) with 3 people and it was drafting 9 inches and I have been told they are making them about 75 lbs. lighter now. I would think this lighter version with 2 people and a very light load would be very close to a 6 inch draft, and that is on a 12 degreee deadrise boat that rides as good as an 18 HPXV. The Chittum is also a very dry ride.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

crboggs said:


> As big as Tampa Bay is, its definitely nice to be able to cross water.
> 
> That's the main reason I have not downsized to a tiller skiff.
> 
> Even still...certain areas (like the upper bay) are microskiff areas for sure during winter.



90% of the places I go in Tampa, you arent going w/o a kayak or skinny skiff. I cross the bay just fine unless its terrible out and I'm staying home in that case anyway. Unless its salty fly. Then I'm frowning and throwing into 30mph winds with an 8w.


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

Skiff companies don't consistently measure draft...read the fine print. Floats in..., motor and gear..., real world draft with two anglers (likely dwarfs), etc. The reality is you are always moving around, loaded different depending on crew, more or less gear, etc. and weight distribution is a big part of it anyway. So it's a fluid calculation. 

When I redid my skiff I paid close attention to weight because I like to pole in areas that few can get to and there is less fishing pressure so I had to keep it simple and light but solid so I could still get out there with a reasonable assurance of safety and minimal brain damage. I also paid attention to how the weight would be distributed with the gear I had installed in the skiff. I can imagine a big swing in some supposedly super shallow drafting skiffs because so much unnecessary gear is added when built and they are rigged without concern for balance and overall weight distribution for the most likely typical use. 

In looking at some recent pics since I’ve had my skiff out a few times I noticed big differences that should be considered when reading the manufacturers draft estimates and picking out a skiff. Notice the floating empty vs. loaded down pics below. There are those who would prefer to pass me by their v-bottom, high HP, super dry riding skiff, but as for me…give me the skinny! 

For reference I measured about 8" from keel to bottom edge of logo decal









Floating with fuel (10 gal) and gear about 4"









7"-8" real world with me, wife, 2 kids, dog, snorkel gear, Yeti, loaded down and 20 gal fuel. You can fully make out the decal where the bottom edge is 8" from keel. With two avg. anglers and gear I'm going to guess its real close to 6" when load is properly balanced.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

jboriol said:


> Skiff companies don't consistently measure draft...read the fine print. Floats in..., motor and gear..., real world draft with two anglers (likely dwarfs), etc. The reality is you are always moving around, loaded different depending on crew, more or less gear, etc. and weight distribution is a big part of it anyway. So it's a fluid calculation.
> 
> When I redid my skiff I paid close attention to weight because I like to pole in areas that few can get to and there is less fishing pressure so I had to keep it simple and light but solid so I could still get out there with a reasonable assurance of safety and minimal brain damage. I also paid attention to how the weight would be distributed with the gear I had installed in the skiff. I can imagine a big swing in some supposedly super shallow drafting skiffs because so much unnecessary gear is added when built and they are rigged without concern for balance and overall weight distribution for the most likely typical use.
> 
> ...


Yep, that looks like bonefish territory.... If your skiff drafts more than a true "6inches" you be looking them suckers tail from far far away.... At least the first arrivals.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

jboriol said:


> When I redid my skiff I paid close attention to weight because I like to pole in areas that few can get to and there is less fishing pressure so I had to keep it simple and light but solid so I could still get out there with a reasonable assurance of safety and minimal brain damage. I also paid attention to how the weight would be distributed with the gear I had installed in the skiff.


Exactly. I have no livewell. No Trolling Motor, etc. etc. I do have a 25 gallon tank (skiff was built for the glades) and when I repowered I went with the 60hp instead of the 90 that adds weight and only gives you 5mph more underway. I added a powerpole, which in retrospect wasn't a great idea. And I added a minrojacker which weighs 23 lbs. Now I just need to lose about 30lbs to make it up.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

jboriol said:


> Skiff companies don't consistently measure draft...read the fine print. Floats in..., motor and gear..., real world draft with two anglers (likely dwarfs), etc. The reality is you are always moving around, loaded different depending on crew, more or less gear, etc. and weight distribution is a big part of it anyway. So it's a fluid calculation.
> 
> When I redid my skiff I paid close attention to weight because I like to pole in areas that few can get to and there is less fishing pressure so I had to keep it simple and light but solid so I could still get out there with a reasonable assurance of safety and minimal brain damage. I also paid attention to how the weight would be distributed with the gear I had installed in the skiff. I can imagine a big swing in some supposedly super shallow drafting skiffs because so much unnecessary gear is added when built and they are rigged without concern for balance and overall weight distribution for the most likely typical use.
> 
> ...


You did such a great job with that old skiff. Kudos.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

jboriol said:


> I can imagine a big swing in some supposedly super shallow drafting skiffs because so much unnecessary gear is added when built and they are rigged without concern for balance and overall weight distribution for the most likely typical use.


Beautiful skiff. Amazing rebuild. Looks as sexy as anything made new today.

I just shake my head every time I see a tech/micro skiff built with a livewell in it. Its just counter intuitive IMHO.

When I replace my flats boat, I'll be moving down to a minimalist skiff. If I take one of my daughter's out with bait I'll just carry it in a bucket with a bubbler.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

crboggs said:


> Beautiful skiff. Amazing rebuild. Looks as sexy as anything made new today.
> 
> I just shake my head every time I see a tech/micro skiff built with a livewell in it. Its just counter intuitive IMHO.
> 
> When I replace my flats boat, I'll be moving down to a minimalist skiff. If I take one of my daughter's out with bait I'll just carry it in a bucket with a bubbler.



I know what you mean. A lot of what we do doesn't make sense lol. Move batteries and fuel up front for weight, then spend twice twice as much on a carbon casting platform to save weight.


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

crboggs said:


> Beautiful skiff. Amazing rebuild. Looks as sexy as anything made new today.
> 
> I just shake my head every time I see a tech/micro skiff built with a livewell in it. Its just counter intuitive IMHO.
> 
> When I replace my flats boat, I'll be moving down to a minimalist skiff. If I take one of my daughter's out with bait I'll just carry it in a bucket with a bubbler.


Thanks for the comments, didn't intend to hijack the thread. I've just been really tuned in to this topic since I'm just now testing my new to me skiff out and it's been interesting to learn more about how it performs in various scenarios. It's also been interesting to go through a similar (I think) process that skiff companies go through as they make assumptions, test, tweak, test, tweak some more and finally figure out what works and what doesn't.

P.S. Used a $6 Styrofoam bait pail with bubbler so the kids could chuck shrimp in the keys and it lasted all day with mostly live bait 10 hrs. later.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

crboggs said:


> Beautiful skiff. Amazing rebuild. Looks as sexy as anything made new today.
> 
> *I just shake my head every time I see a tech/micro skiff built with a livewell in it. Its just counter intuitive IMHO.*
> 
> When I replace my flats boat, I'll be moving down to a minimalist skiff. If I take one of my daughter's out with bait I'll just carry it in a bucket with a bubbler.


Weren't there a pretty large number of Hells Bay skiffs back in the day that had a "crustacean well"? Nothing more than a small livewell for the people chunking live crabs or shrimp at permit & bones.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Yeah, a livewell does add some significant weight. Mine is 20 gallons so once it's filled it's liking having a 172lb person sitting back there. Then again, you ain't keeping threadfins alive in no Mr.Bubbles styrofoam cooler, lol - maybe 3 of them.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

no, it drafts less than 6"


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

really! four pages on 6" or less!


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

My Gheenoe NMZ Sure does !

But Bangs into Stumps and Rocks at 2" :-( !


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

scissorhands said:


> no, it drafts less than 6"


No way Edward, I never said, suggested, and or even implied my skiff drafted less than 6. But everyone else's does, and they're dry even in a quartering 3ft chop. Lol.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

HaMm3r said:


> The motor is a Mercury Sea Pro 25HP 2-stroke that I did the 30HP conversion on. For the combo JP/TNT unit, I took a PT35 and built a custom jackplate around it. The foil is a Stingray Starfire which is designed for a much bigger motor, but I modified it to fit and it gives me the best lift/anti-ventilation properties of any foil/plate I've tried. Fully jacked in normal running position, only 2" of the skeg sticks down below the hull. This setup will run in 4", launch in 6" and still tops out at almost 34MPH.
> 
> The second two pictures are stills from a GoPro I mounted on the transom. They show what running fully jacked looks like, and then just another still for reference from the same clip as I pulled the boat and trailer out of the water. I honestly didn't realize how little of the lower unit and prop was in water until I looked at this footage. I was shocked, to say the least.
> 
> I've been running this setup for two years now and wouldn't change a thing, except I have been experimenting with transom water pickups, just for the peace of mind. I did a recent impeller change and the old one was near perfect, but still I worry about water pressure sometimes.


I had a sea pro, great motor. How is it getting any water? The intake is 6 inches above the water? Those pictures are crazy.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I run the same motor as HaMm3r (not the NMZ) with a "personal twist" and him and I have chatted in person
I run mine at the same height ... Yes it picks up water but with only a fraction of the lower
in the water it is a little hard to steer !!! My prop guy and I are working on that ...


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

Not sure why having a live well is such a bad thing for a "true" micro skiff. Necessary for most all tournaments. Gives you the ability to have live bait and if you want to keep little draft just don't fill it?


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

Megalops said:


> No way Edward, I never said, suggested, and or even implied my skiff drafted less than 6. But everyone else's does, and they're dry even in a quartering 3ft chop. Lol.


Who is Edward?


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

HAHAHAH these threads always turn in to a bench press competition. 

I had some new stickers made up, "my skiff drafts less than yours"

taking orders now. $200.00 per


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