# Hells Bay Professional/ East Cape Evo X



## Mustang (Oct 15, 2015)

I can’t comment on either hull, but East Cape was very easy to work with while I was stationed overseas. My entire build was done while I was deployed. If I needed to get ahold of them I’d send a message via Facebook to set up a time to call or FaceTime. Good luck with your choice.


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## CoastalGAfisher07 (Nov 21, 2010)

Mustang said:


> I can’t comment on either hull, but East Cape was very easy to work with while I was stationed overseas. My entire build was done while I was deployed. If I needed to get ahold of them I’d send a message via Facebook to set up a time to call or FaceTime. Good luck with your choice.


Thanks for the response man!


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Yeah if you can’t get in touch via phone best to try email [email protected] or [email protected] 

It’s pretty widely known on here that I’m an ecc fanboy and I’m running hull number 2 evox here in Charleston. It’s a great skiff, I think the hells bays are nice also, but head to head I’ll still take my evo


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## CoastalGAfisher07 (Nov 21, 2010)

mtoddsolomon said:


> Yeah if you can’t get in touch via phone best to try email [email protected] or [email protected]
> 
> It’s pretty widely known on here that I’m an ecc fanboy and I’m running hull number 2 evox here in Charleston. It’s a great skiff, I think the hells bays are nice also, but head to head I’ll still take my evo


Haha I have seen! You have an awesome boat though so I don't blame you. I have no doubt that they are both awesome and I'm not going to regret my decision either way.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

I have not fished coastal Georgia, but I have fished the Mt Pleasant SC coastal area with guide Chris Wilson from a older HB Guide in 2014. Chris uses a 2016 HB Pro now but I do not know how often he crosses big water in the Pro. Regardless, if you think you will pole more than use the trolling motor the Pro will draft less and plane shallower. Crossing big water comfortably/safely is very subjective. The "big" part and the comfortable part. There are forum members that fish the Carolinas/Georgia coast with the EVO X. Since you are new to poling, the EVO X might be the way to go.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

sjrobin said:


> if you think you will pole more than use the trolling motor the Pro will draft less and plane shallower. Crossing big water comfortably/safely is very subjective. The "big" part and the comfortable part. There are forum members that fish the Carolinas/Georgia coast with the EVO X. Since you are new to poling, the EVO X might be the way to go.


Come on now, let's not go spread rumors. I've poled both and can honestly say that rigged with a center console and 60hp motor that there isn't a difference in draft and honestly i hop on plane faster than that pro did. As far as poling, not having sponsons makes poling creeks easier because you can turn quicker. When it comes to open water, neither have enough deadrise to make it the best ride you'll ever have.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

sjrobin said:


> The EVO X same weight, Micro jack, and engine as Pro will not float or plane where the Pro does. However, for most skiff owners, the differences are insignificant and should not be a factor in a decision. Also know your physical limitations when it comes to poling skiffs around. Most buyers overestimate. If you _know_ you will be on the water a lot and push the skiff shallow most of the time the Pro is a good choice.


Not going to argue, but not going to agree. 

How many EVOx have you been on? I feel like you must be talking about the V or a X rigged with a 90, power poles, and trolling motor.


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## Barbs_deep (Jul 4, 2010)

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> Good evening other skinny water enthusiast, I know this topic has been discussed before and Ive searched/seen the threads. Just looking to get more Info on both skiffs and what their strengths and potential weaknesses. I am currently a defense contractor and am only home for a little while every 4 months or so. I plan on getting a look at and hopefully a wet test with both skiffs next time I'm home. I primarily fish around Savannah Ga. I fish light tackle with artificials 90% of the time but would like to start working my way more into fly fishing with this boat. I should mention that I owned a 2012 Ankona Copperhead and really liked that boat but am looking for something a little bigger with the capability to cross bigger water more comfortably as most of the productive shallow water I fish I have to cross the sounds. Has anyone owned both skiffs? I know that a wet test is really the best way to be certain on my choice but just looking to hear the feedback of others with experience with both/either skiffs. Is the new carbon innegra build process that Hells Bay is using now a big advantage? I was able to get ahold and speak with someone at Hells Bay and they were great and emailed me a price list and standard options. I have not been able to get ahold of East Cape via phone although I have not left a message ( I do not have cell service for the majority of the time I'm here in Afghanistan so if they called back I would likely not receive it. Anyways looking forward to hearing your feedback. Thank you.


PM me on this if you'd like, there will be entirely too many personal feelings that are going to be involved by other members to discuss in an open forum. I shopped the same market a year ago coming from a Waterman and ended up with the Pro.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

I can already see this thread is going to bring out the fanboys. Bottom line, between the two, is HB owners usually have larger weiners. Just keep that in mind.


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## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

Just to stir the pot... I think the Maverick HPX-S beats the pro and the EVO X in every category.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

You're only allowed to run a HB if you live in The Landings.


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

I am an ECC Vantage owner but honestly just find someone with both and see if you can do a test ride and then go with your heart. Also if you get a day off and can drive down then go to both factories and make a decision based on who you like more. I am not going to say if one or the other is better but I just liked how the ECC guys treated me more than HB.


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## mmccull5 (Nov 15, 2012)

kylet said:


> I can already see this thread is going to bring out the fanboys. Bottom line, between the two, is HB owners usually have larger weiners. Just keep that in mind.


In that case I guess it's a good thing I own a hell's bay and an east cape?


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

SomaliPirate said:


> You're only allowed to run a HB if you live in The Landings.


So if I move back into the old homestead in Thunderbolt, at retirement, I can’t buy one?


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> Good evening other skinny water enthusiast, I know this topic has been discussed before and Ive searched/seen the threads. Just looking to get more Info on both skiffs and what their strengths and potential weaknesses. I am currently a defense contractor and am only home for a little while every 4 months or so. I plan on getting a look at and hopefully a wet test with both skiffs next time I'm home. I primarily fish around Savannah Ga. I fish light tackle with artificials 90% of the time but would like to start working my way more into fly fishing with this boat. I should mention that I owned a 2012 Ankona Copperhead and really liked that boat but am looking for something a little bigger with the capability to cross bigger water more comfortably as most of the productive shallow water I fish I have to cross the sounds. Has anyone owned both skiffs? I know that a wet test is really the best way to be certain on my choice but just looking to hear the feedback of others with experience with both/either skiffs. Is the new carbon innegra build process that Hells Bay is using now a big advantage? I was able to get ahold and speak with someone at Hells Bay and they were great and emailed me a price list and standard options. I have not been able to get ahold of East Cape via phone although I have not left a message ( I do not have cell service for the majority of the time I'm here in Afghanistan so if they called back I would likely not receive it. Anyways looking forward to hearing your feedback. Thank you.



They're both great skiffs, but if you like the Evo X I'd compare it to the Hells Bay Guide. The HB Professional is closer to the ECC Fury.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

mmccull5 said:


> In that case I guess it's a good thing I own a hell's bay and an east cape?


Hey, it’s 2019 man...


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)




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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Just to stir the pot... I think the Maverick HPX-S beats the pro and the EVO X in every category.


Chittum Mangrove 12 degree


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Both are great boats built with the same materials and the same methods by people doing it a long time. The differences are just the obvious ones. The evo is 6” wider with taller sides, no sponsons, console closer to the bow. Just looking at that you are likely going to be drier in the evo. The pro is going to pole easier especially in wind. Pro should track better but not spin as well. You are going to save a substantial amount of money with ec. You are going to get to take delivery substantially faster with hb.


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## Brad_Torren (Oct 19, 2018)

To clarify some misinformation from the above poster. I have spoken with both Kevin at East Cape, and Michael at HB. Subsequently, I placed a deposit on a Marquesa.

The materials are by no means the same. Hell's Bay uses Carbon Innegra, while East Cape uses regular glass unless you upgrade to Kevlar, which is inferior to Hells bay's standard innegra. 

As for wait time, I was told the EVO was unavailable due to fixing issues, but I could order an EVOx and have it in 6 weeks. My build time with HB is currently 14 weeks out.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Brad_Torren said:


> To clarify some misinformation from the above poster. I have spoken with both Kevin at East Cape, and Michael at HB. Subsequently, I placed a deposit on a Marquesa.
> 
> The materials are by no means the same. Hell's Bay uses Carbon Innegra, while East Cape uses regular glass unless you upgrade to Kevlar, which is inferior to Hells bay's standard innegra.
> 
> As for wait time, I was told the EVO was unavailable due to fixing issues, but I could order an EVOx and have it in 6 weeks. My build time with HB is currently 14 weeks out.


Lol


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## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

Brad_Torren said:


> To clarify some misinformation from the above poster. I have spoken with both Kevin at East Cape, and Michael at HB. Subsequently, I placed a deposit on a Marquesa.
> 
> The materials are by no means the same. Hell's Bay uses Carbon Innegra, while East Cape uses regular glass unless you upgrade to Kevlar, which is inferior to Hells bay's standard innegra.
> 
> As for wait time, I was told the EVO was unavailable due to fixing issues, but I could order an EVOx and have it in 6 weeks. My build time with HB is currently 14 weeks out.


Brad,
So much misinformation here it's actually quite comical!
Enjoy your boat and hope it lives up to all you've been promised/told?
~ Kevin


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

I think the only way to settle this is to have the two skiffs built like so:

Both light blue with whisper grey two tone decks
side consoles 
F70s
Trim tabs and Simrad units
Polished polish platforms and Evo casting platforms
Ramlins set up for each

I’ll take delivery of both and after 5,6 or 10 years of testing I’ll report back with extensive data. I’m not to picky on which Simrad units are used and I’ll provide my own push pole.


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## CoastalGAfisher07 (Nov 21, 2010)

mmccull5 said:


> I am in Savannah and have a 2018 pro. I went to every manufacturer to checkout their equivalent boat and still ended up building a hell's bay - fly and artificial fishing only.
> 
> If you want to check it out or go for a ride let me know. More than happy to help.


I may have to take you up on that, I will be back in town in June sometime.


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## CoastalGAfisher07 (Nov 21, 2010)

SomaliPirate said:


> You're only allowed to run a HB if you live in The Landings.


Haha I did look in the Landings but the houses in there with what I wanted to spend needed to much updating. More of a Richmond Hill type anyways lol


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## Swe (Apr 19, 2017)

Brad_Torren said:


> To clarify some misinformation from the above poster. I have spoken with both Kevin at East Cape, and Michael at HB. Subsequently, I placed a deposit on a Marquesa.
> 
> The materials are by no means the same. Hell's Bay uses Carbon Innegra, while East Cape uses regular glass unless you upgrade to Kevlar, which is inferior to Hells bay's standard innegra.
> 
> As for wait time, I was told the EVO was unavailable due to fixing issues, but I could order an EVOx and have it in 6 weeks. My build time with HB is currently 14 weeks out.


Lol ... funny stuff in this post but 6 weeks I been waiting 6 months for my EVO x build to start.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I’m over here still confused on how my evo is bigger than a fury?


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## Brad_Torren (Oct 19, 2018)

East Cape said:


> Brad,
> So much misinformation here it's actually quite comical!
> Enjoy your boat and hope it lives up to all you've been promised/told?
> ~ Kevin


Where am I wrong? I don't want to spread misinformation. Maybe I've been lied to?


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

flysalt060 said:


> So if I move back into the old homestead in Thunderbolt, at retirement, I can’t buy one?


haha nope! Banned!


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> Haha I did look in the Landings but the houses in there with what I wanted to spend needed to much updating. More of a Richmond Hill type anyways lol


Salt ponds in the Landings are full of big reds, drum and even some trout though.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Brad_Torren said:


> Where am I wrong? I don't want to spread misinformation. Maybe I've been lied to?


It’d be easier to go with what you’re not wrong on, and that’s that HB is using Carbon Innegra now.

I saw in another thread where you were on a 2 hr tour at HB and asked the “tough questions” to Chris. Just my 2 cents but if you don’t want to spread misinformation you may want hang tight and get a little bit more info. In your tough questions did they tell you why there is a 5 year guarantee on their magical innegra compared to others who guarantee theirs for life?


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## DeepSouthFly (Sep 7, 2016)

God this is great.


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## DeepSouthFly (Sep 7, 2016)

wet test both, decide what you can afford then decide which one you like better, i would look used market first before you jump into getting one built. you will be out less and later down the road you will know more how you want a boat set up to your specific needs/wants. HB, EC, Maverick, sure Chittum, all great builders, different price points and wait times. the wet test is where you should make your decision, not from opinions from strangers. If you want more info i would call kevin fenn, then call Hell's Bay. write down the differences like weight, dead rise, freeboard, beam, storage, standard features, compare layouts, look at how you fish, not how you want to fish, etc. 
I'm a boat buying fool so I've been in a few over the years. I promise this will not be the last boat you buy. It's a sickness.


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

“ i would look used market first before you jump into getting one built. you will be out less and later down “

“ I promise this will not be the last boat you buy. It's a sickness.”

That’s serious wisdom from DeepSouthFly!!! 

I would also recommend looking used. Late model, used skiff will allow you to own for a few years then move on with minimal financial penalty. You can really figure out what works for you and your style of fishing and what doesn’t. There are a few really nice used HB Pro’s for sale on here. I would look into those first. Just my $0.02


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## mmccull5 (Nov 15, 2012)

SomaliPirate said:


> Salt ponds in the Landings are full of big reds, drum and even some trout though.


There is A LOT more in those lagoons.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

DeepSouthFly said:


> God this is great.


It was only a matter of time...


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Stevie said:


> It was only a matter of time...


its been so long since we had one of these. I’ve really missed this


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

mtoddsolomon said:


> its been so long since we had one of these. I’ve really missed this


But this time you have a dog in the fight


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

This thread reminds me of the time my Dad told me about the Rule of the three F’s.

“If it Floats, Flies, or Fornicates, it’s better to rent.”

Sadly neither he, nor me, or any of my five older brothers were able to comply.

Must be hereditary.


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## CoastalGAfisher07 (Nov 21, 2010)

SomaliPirate said:


> Salt ponds in the Landings are full of big reds, drum and even some trout though.


Oh trust me I know. I caught some nice ones in there, the flounder in those lagoons get huge as well. Ive even found several ponds in there that hold a lot of small tarpon.


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## YnR (Feb 16, 2015)

I haven’t ridden or fished on the EVOx but it feels like a bigger boat than the Pro which can be good or bad depending on your priorities. The Pro fishes well, but I’ve never been a fan of its ride. I will tell you from first hand experience, EC will take good care of you. Their CS is really something other companies should try to emulate. That isn’t to say HB is poor in that regard. It may even be better. I just don’t have any experience with them other than a quick phone call.


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

mtoddsolomon said:


> I’m over here still confused on how my evo is bigger than a fury?


This may help 

ECC Fury beam: 72" / 2-3 people
HB Pro beam: 73" / 2-3 people

ECC EVO beam: 79" / 3-4 people
HB Guide beam: 79" / 3-4 people

.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Bluwave said:


> This may help
> 
> ECC Fury beam: 72" / 2-3 people
> HB Pro beam: 73" / 2-3 people
> ...


None of those are going to ride Or draft as good as a chittum


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Bluwave said:


> This may help
> 
> ECC Fury beam: 72" / 2-3 people
> HB Pro beam: 73" / 2-3 people
> ...


Beam on the Evo is 79" at widest point which is behind the front hatch, on top of the spray rails. The rear beam is around 71" and the size at the waterline is between the fury and caimen. It's kind of shaped like the old gladesman


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

kylet said:


> None of those are going to ride Or draft as good as a chittum


Haha, looks like we have a fanboy on our hands.


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

The 


mtoddsolomon said:


> Beam on the Evo is 79" at widest point which is behind the front hatch, on top of the spray rails. The rear beam is around 71" and the size at the waterline is between the fury and caimen. It's kind of shaped like the old gladesman


What is the deck width where the cushions are?


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Bluwave said:


> The
> 
> 
> What is the deck width where the cushions are?


72-73" maybe less, really wide gunnels too so the cockpit is a bit tighter than the fury/Pro


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

mtoddsolomon said:


> 72-73" maybe less, really wide gunnels too so the cockpit is a bit tighter than the fury/Pro


Cockpit on an Evo is 100% wider than a Pro. I've seen people go 3 wide in an Evo.. you can't do that in a pro. 

p.s. why are you so defensive about this? Lol


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

Bluwave said:


> Haha, looks like we have a fanboy on our hands.


I have to disagree there... Having seen the 12° Chittum Mangrove at the miami boat show, I can tell you first hand that it would be my FIRST choice if I was shopping for a new skiff from HB, East Cape, etc... Full disclosure, I own an 18 Waterman and have fished both Mavericks 17 & 18 and a HB Pro. The Chittum, IMO would be the way I would go right now. Full 18’, no sponsons, 12° w/ Tohatsu 60 touches 40mph and drafts somewhere around 7 (measured, not claimed and reported by multiple people who wet tested the skiff that weekend). Skiff felt stable to me at 250#. 

Expensive? Yeah! But so is a new Pro. All that being said, I believe each specific area requires a specific tool. A skiff that works for me in Miami and the keys won’t necessarily check off all the boxes for someone up in mosquito lagoon, or Tampa bay. The nuances are subtle and can only really be learned after a few hundred hours on the water. Food for thought, most of the keys guides and tournament guys are transitioning to Chittums down here...also, I’ve never seen a single evo on the water down here (although I know they’re around).


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

manny2376 said:


> I have to disagree there... Having seen the 12° Chittum Mangrove at the miami boat show, I can tell you first hand that it would be my FIRST choice if I was shopping for a new skiff from HB, East Cape, etc... Full disclosure, I own an 18 Waterman and have fished both Mavericks 17 & 18 and a HB Pro. The Chittum, IMO would be the way I would go right now. Full 18’, no sponsons, 12° w/ Tohatsu 60 touches 40mph and drafts somewhere around 7 (measured, not claimed and reported by multiple people who wet tested the skiff that weekend). Skiff felt stable to me at 250#.
> 
> Expensive? Yeah! But so is a new Pro. All that being said, I believe each specific area requires a specific tool. A skiff that works for me in Miami and the keys won’t necessarily check off all the boxes for someone up in mosquito lagoon, or Tampa bay. The nuances are subtle and can only really be learned after a few hundred hours on the water. Food for thought, most of the keys guides and tournament guys are transitioning to Chittums down here...also, I’ve never seen a single evo on the water down here (although I know they’re around).


The Evo X will draft less than a 12 degree chittum. #Fact


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

manny2376 said:


> I have to disagree there... Having seen the 12° Chittum Mangrove at the miami boat show, I can tell you first hand that it would be my FIRST choice if I was shopping for a new skiff from HB, East Cape, etc... Full disclosure, I own an 18 Waterman and have fished both Mavericks 17 & 18 and a HB Pro. The Chittum, IMO would be the way I would go right now. Full 18’, no sponsons, 12° w/ Tohatsu 60 touches 40mph and drafts somewhere around 7 (measured, not claimed and reported by multiple people who wet tested the skiff that weekend). Skiff felt stable to me at 250#.
> 
> Expensive? Yeah! But so is a new Pro. All that being said, I believe each specific area requires a specific tool. A skiff that works for me in Miami and the keys won’t necessarily check off all the boxes for someone up in mosquito lagoon, or Tampa bay. The nuances are subtle and can only really be learned after a few hundred hours on the water. Food for thought, most of the keys guides and tournament guys are transitioning to Chittums down here...also, I’ve never seen a single evo on the water down here (although I know they’re around).


They’re good but they can’t touch HB on ride.


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

Bluwave said:


> The Evo X will draft less than a 12 degree chittum. #Fact


Agreed a 2° hull will draft less than a 12° hull. Also, manufacturers claimed draft numbers are 1000% BS. Especially when guys strap 3 batteries, a TM and a Powerpole on these skiffs which I don’t understand. My Waterman drafts an honest 6” (measured) with me standing on the platform and a similar angler on the bow. I would be happy to gain an extra inch or two to increase comfort, range and speed. Draft isn’t the end all be all.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Now it's getting good.


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

kylet said:


> They’re good but they can’t touch HB on ride.


Again, I’m going to have to somewhat disagree... but until I spend some time on different Chittum models I’m not going to fully commit to that argument. Which HB can’t they compare too? Marquesa? Biscayne? Pro? Each one of those skiffs ride and fish completely differently, not to mention their weights and HP rating.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Bluwave said:


> Cockpit on an Evo is 100% wider than a Pro. I've seen people go 3 wide in an Evo.. you can't do that in a pro.
> 
> p.s. why are you so defensive about this? Lol


Not Defensive at all. I like BSing about skiffs when everyone thinks what they have is better than what everyone else has. This is the first thing that has gotten me interested on here in a while. Plus, I have a similar conversation all the time with people who see evos online and then see mine in person and are surprised how much smaller it is from what they thought. Personally I don't care either way but 3 wide in an EVO sounds like a bad time.


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

mtoddsolomon said:


> Personally I don't care either way but 3 wide in an EVO sounds like a bad time.


What if 2 of them are fat chicks?


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

kylet said:


> What if 2 of them are fat chicks?


Then you need a Carolina Skiff and some Viagra.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

kylet said:


> What if 2 of them are fat chicks?


Never happening!


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

mtoddsolomon said:


> Never happening!


You’re losing a lot of credibility here today.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

4" draft fishing 4


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

mtoddsolomon said:


> 4" draft fishing 4


I’ve seen a girl that could eat them poling a maverick in 6 inches of water. Only had 1 power pole and a half tank of gas though.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

The girl on the right looks anorexic compared to the other 3


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## CoastalGAfisher07 (Nov 21, 2010)

Just wanted to go on record and say that the reason I didn't get ahold of anyone at East Cape in my opening post was because they were closed. I loose track of time/day here being the time difference and I work nights. Kevin was able to answer all my questions and more. I will definitely be taking a ride down there next time I'm home. In the meanwhile Im enjoying reading everyones comments. Carry on


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

As you can tell everyone likes their own skiffs. Since you obviously don’t have financial constraints get whatever you want and will work best for you. I wouldn’t overlook drake brothers or Chittum in this realm. Only reason I didn’t test drake before buying my Chittum was that they were in Carolina, but from everything I have read or heard they make a great skiff. I really liked the Cayo but didn’t want to wait that long even though the price was great and I’m glad I didn’t order since they are now backed up years building their hybrid bayboat


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

makin moves said:


> The girl on the right looks anorexic compared to the other 3


There’s no need for body shaming. Just because a girl takes care of herself doesn’t mean she has an eating disorder.

If I were these girls I’d be looking at a drake outlaw. You could put all 4 of the on the starboard gunwale and have them lean back like they were windsurfing... boat wouldnt even tilt.


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## YnR (Feb 16, 2015)

They must ride prettt bad because the Pro’s ride isn’t anything to write home about.


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## YnR (Feb 16, 2015)

mtoddsolomon said:


> Beam on the Evo is 79" at widest point which is behind the front hatch, on top of the spray rails. The rear beam is around 71" and the size at the waterline is between the fury and caimen. It's kind of shaped like the old gladesman


Regardless of the length, the EVOX reminds me more of the HPX18 than a Glades-anything, especially with how the width gets carried up towards the bow. The Fury is longer but the EVOX definitely feels wider.


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## Swe (Apr 19, 2017)

YnR said:


> Regardless of the length, the EVOX reminds me more of the HPX18 than a Glades-anything, especially with how the width gets carried up towards the bow. The Fury is longer but the EVOX definitely feels wider.


I wet tested the 18’ waterman and the evo x , evo definitely felt like a bigger boat.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Just to help everyone get to sleep tonight, I measured some things when I walked in tonight. At the stern it’s 70”, in front of the seat it’s 74” and inside the gunnels of the cockpit it’s 52”. Also the widest point I could find was 77” near the front bulkhead, and the cockpit was only 42” there. Measured on the most accurate and trusty device that man has ever created... fatmax


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

kylet said:


> What if 2 of them are fat chicks?


What if two of them are hot chicks? That’s sounds like a hood time.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Godzuki86 said:


> What if two of them are hot chicks? That’s sounds like a hood time.


Hot girls are overrated anyway. My dad always said "if you get you a fat girl, she can keep you warm in the winter and throw a nice shade in the summer".


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

SomaliPirate said:


> Hot girls are overrated anyway. My dad always said "if you get you a fat girl, she can keep you warm in the winter and throw a nice shade in the summer".


It really just depends on the seas that day. If we’re talking 1-2s I’m taking the fat chicks and sitting in the middle.


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

mtoddsolomon said:


> Just to help everyone get to sleep tonight, I measured some things when I walked in tonight. At the stern it’s 70”, in front of the seat it’s 74” and inside the gunnels of the cockpit it’s 52”. Also the widest point I could find was 77” near the front bulkhead, and the cockpit was only 42” there. Measured on the most accurate and trusty device that man has ever created... fatmax


Haha, I guess you need to call Kevin and tell him that his skiff is 77" and not 79". There's nothing wrong with a girl with wide hips. 

.


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

Bluwave said:


> Haha, I guess you need to call Kevin and tell him that his skiff is 77" and not 79". There's nothing wrong with a girl with wide hips.
> 
> .


Maybe including the rub rails?


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

SomaliPirate said:


> Hot girls are overrated anyway. My dad always said "if you get you a fat girl, she can keep you warm in the winter and throw a nice shade in the summer".


Mine said "She's built for comfort, not for speed."


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

zthomas said:


> Mine said "She's built for comfort, not for speed."


Hottest girl I ever dated was also the biggest pain in the ass. There's a definite correlation. 
Sorry for the derail, OP.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> Just wanted to go on record and say that the reason I didn't get ahold of anyone at East Cape in my opening post was because they were closed. I loose track of time/day here being the time difference and I work nights. Kevin was able to answer all my questions and more. I will definitely be taking a ride down there next time I'm home. In the meanwhile Im enjoying reading everyones comments. Carry on


If you want to shoot the shit about the Evo X and get in one, I'm just north of Jacksonville and would like to show you what the Evo can do.

I know there are alot of chittums around up here but I never see them in tournaments. Looks like Hal is off buying guides again, hope it doesnt bankrupt him again!


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## CoastalGAfisher07 (Nov 21, 2010)

prinjm6 said:


> If you want to shoot the shit about the Evo X and get in one, I'm just north of Jacksonville and would like to show you what the Evo can do.
> 
> I know there are alot of chittums around up here but I never see them in tournaments. Looks like Hal is off buying guides again, hope it doesnt bankrupt him again!



Yeah that would be great, I should be back home in June sometime I’ll have to get ahold of you then. Thanks


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## TX_Brad (Jun 8, 2018)

Bluwave said:


> Haha, I guess you need to call Kevin and tell him that his skiff is 77" and not 79". There's nothing wrong with a girl with wide hips.
> 
> .


Eh, maybe it was done by a woman being off an inch of two. I've been telling my wife how big 6" is for almost 20 years.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

CoastalGAfisher07 said:


> Yeah that would be great, I should be back home in June sometime I’ll have to get ahold of you then. Thanks


Perfect, we can run beach side and then tuck back in and fish a flood for tailers


----------



## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Haha oh man, so many wild tales in one thread. Scary thing is I can’t quite tell if some of y’all really believe what y’all claim. This has become a crazy place from when I joined 12yrs ago.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

For the record, innegra is 90% polypropylene. Tic tac box caps are made from polypropylene, HB laminate = Tic Tac box cap. Also kevlar is a brand name of Aramid by Dupont, not the name of a specific type of fabric.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

prinjm6 said:


> For the record, innegra is 90% polypropylene. Tic tac box caps are made from polypropylene, HB laminate = Tic Tac box cap. Also kevlar is a brand name of Aramid by Dupont, not the name of a specific type of fabric.


I'm not big on new build HBs... But I'm not a hater either... The Tic-Toc Box Cap comparison is a bit outlandish. So is the notion that Hal is "buying" guides.... I owned a lot of skiffs including HB and ECC... was considering posting comparative data, which is the reason I prefer Chittum... and they certainly didn't buy me....


----------



## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

Stevie said:


> I'm not big on new build HBs... But I'm not a hater either... The Tic-Toc Box Cap comparison is a bit outlandish. So is the notion that Hal is "buying" guides.... I owned a lot of skiffs including HB and ECC... was considering posting comparative data, which is the reason I prefer Chittum... and they certainly didn't buy me....


Lol...they didnt have to. You obviously are financially well off and able to purchase a skiff in the price range. But to say Chittum is not giving certain guides a huge break or even possibly free skiffs on your dime is naive. Chittum, HB and Maverick inflate the cost to everyday consumers to offset their guide and advertising programs. You dont go from a HB one year to a maverick then to Chittum in a few years without any monetary incentive. Hindsight is if you were to build a ECC, HB or Chittum using the same materials for a laminate schedule how would each compare? Did you run a 100% Carbon ECC? Was you HB of comparable layup? Personally I'm not a bitch and will put my skiff through shit and I dont want an exotic layup I cant repair in my driveway, everyone loves these materials they know jack shit about (my experience comes from aviation in which I work with/repair aramid, carbon and S glass). If you dont know the difference between hydrophilic and hydrophobic I dont think we can have a conversation about your unicorn fairy dust laminate schedule on your chittum. We can see if my glass boat out lasts your carbon boat over same hours of use though...and if you're not banging into shit you're not fishing to hard.

FWIW my logic is this, Chittum is no doubt a lighter skiff that will pole easier than a standard layup HB, Mav or ECC. Ride is all subjective, but at what cost do you pay for ease of poling? I know what I paid for my ECC, I also know what a 18 HPX and Marquesa of comparable build cost, what am I gaining for the extra $7-10k? I have awlgrip, gemlux and edson on my skiff and the glass is from the same vendor. I'm not spending the extra cash on a vinyl decal that reads out differently and puts no more fish in the boat.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

I got a used HB 178 when I was 40, my first skiff. I walk-in waded the TX Coast for 15 years before that. You must be well off to have a new skiff at 29 — more power to you.

The 12 degree Mangrove I use in MX is 90% glass and has ugly seams on the deck and cockpit because it was a prototype. It has portable gas tanks. I like it that way for that location. I wish I knew how to repair it and the others myself, but I’m not technically trained at all. I admire your technical knowledge. My comments on skiffs are made from comparative experience running them only. 

My initial point to you was not to knock HB for using Carbon Innegra. It’s good they’re trying to innovate.

I would like to trial a full carbon ECC. I did not have a good experience getting an Innegra enhancement from ECC, hence my reluctance to believe that the materials will make the difference. I also think it’s naive to say 2 different shops using the same materials will produce the same quality boat.

What Chittum is doing with the thinner core Mangrove and full carbon is experimental for sure, not dissimilar to the innovation with early HBs. We won’t know their longevity until 20 years from now. But Chittum’s innovations are definitely making a difference in draft and the ability to use lighter, lower HP power to achieve good speeds.

Sure, I agree Chittum may be giving deals (but not boats) to guides... but I think the guides and a lot of tournament anglers are buying Chittums because they pole and fish very well. To insinuate Chittum might go bankrupt is not responsible in my opinion. And, to say ECC doesn’t support guides is naive. 

At 52, I would sacrifice ride for easier pole-ability. Draft is really important in TX. But, my experience so far with the extremely light boats is that they ride better than comparatively heavier ones. This concept will take a long time for the market to understand. And, because making boats lighter is expensive, most people won’t want to pay for it. I also think we as consumers should insist that builders guarantee the bareboat weight and verify by weighing prior to rigging. That would certainly eliminate claims of unicorn dust that you mention. 

On price: I blv HB 178, Maverick 17 HPX and Chittum Mangrove 12 degrees are in the same range for a base boat... somewhere in the range of $52-54k. I gather ECC is in the high 30’s base price. They make a fine boat and I can understand why they have a loyal following.


----------



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Just buy another Ankona and put some HB decals on it.


----------



## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

prinjm6 said:


> Lol...they didnt have to. You obviously are financially well off and able to purchase a skiff in the price range. But to say Chittum is not giving certain guides a huge break or even possibly free skiffs on your dime is naive. Chittum, HB and Maverick inflate the cost to everyday consumers to offset their guide and advertising programs. You dont go from a HB one year to a maverick then to Chittum in a few years without any monetary incentive. Hindsight is if you were to build a ECC, HB or Chittum using the same materials for a laminate schedule how would each compare? Did you run a 100% Carbon ECC? Was you HB of comparable layup? Personally I'm not a bitch and will put my skiff through shit and I dont want an exotic layup I cant repair in my driveway, everyone loves these materials they know jack shit about (my experience comes from aviation in which I work with/repair aramid, carbon and S glass). If you dont know the difference between hydrophilic and hydrophobic I dont think we can have a conversation about your unicorn fairy dust laminate schedule on your chittum. We can see if my glass boat out lasts your carbon boat over same hours of use though...and if you're not banging into shit you're not fishing to hard.
> 
> FWIW my logic is this, Chittum is no doubt a lighter skiff that will pole easier than a standard layup HB, Mav or ECC. Ride is all subjective, but at what cost do you pay for ease of poling? I know what I paid for my ECC, I also know what a 18 HPX and Marquesa of comparable build cost, what am I gaining for the extra $7-10k? I have awlgrip, gemlux and edson on my skiff and the glass is from the same vendor. I'm not spending the extra cash on a vinyl decal that reads out differently and puts no more fish in the boat.


I bet fishing with you is a real pleasure. My ECC does this and my dick is this big... blah blah blah blah.

.


----------



## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

Bluwave said:


> I bet fishing with you is a real pleasure. My ECC does this and my dick is this big... blah blah blah blah.
> 
> .


Yeah it's pretty fun catching a mess of fish.

I'm looking forward to fishing the OP.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

@Bluwave see that's defensive. Also, where can I get my hands on some of this unicorn dust?


----------



## jbnc (Feb 28, 2017)

Str8-Six said:


> Just buy another Ankona and put some HB decals on it.


Wait so my HB Copperman isn't real?


----------



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

jbnc said:


> Wait so my HB Copperman isn't real?


With enough unicorn dust it can be a Hellscape Chittumtailrickona


----------



## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

mtoddsolomon said:


> @Bluwave see that's defensive. Also, where can I get my hands on some of this unicorn dust?


All I know is my skiff was infused with tiger tears and that's pretty neat!


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

prinjm6 said:


> I know there are alot of chittums around up here but I never see them in tournaments. Looks like Hal is off buying guides again, hope it doesnt bankrupt him again!


I don’t really have a dog in this fight but you could say the same thing about EC in the Keys. Feels like every guide in lower Keys has gotten or is getting a Chittum. The Merkin and Del Brown are basically filled w Mavs, couple old Dolphins and Chittums now. Don’t think any guides are running an EC down here?

Best boat as always depends on what you need it for and how much $ you have to spend...


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Stevie said:


> I'm not big on new build HBs... But I'm not a hater either... The Tic-Toc Box Cap comparison is a bit outlandish. So is the notion that Hal is "buying" guides.... I owned a lot of skiffs including HB and ECC... was considering posting comparative data, which is the reason I prefer Chittum... and they certainly didn't buy me....


I managed to see your post before (I guess) you took it down. Quality info. I fished in that Marquesa you bought, and know from the guy you bought from how credible you are. I’m not sure when I’ll be buying another boat, but I’d definitely check out the Mangrove 12 if it were today based off what I’ve read from your posts.


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## Bluwave (Nov 3, 2014)

mtoddsolomon said:


> @Bluwave see that's defensive. Also, where can I get my hands on some of this unicorn dust?


Haha, I'm just talking smack because this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. These companies don't inflate prices because of Guide programs; it's because of demand. I'm not sure about Chittum, but Hell's Bay has a pretty lackluster Guide program.



prinjm6 said:


> For the record, innegra is 90% polypropylene. Tic tac box caps are made from polypropylene, HB laminate = Tic Tac box cap. Also kevlar is a brand name of Aramid by Dupont, not the name of a specific type of fabric.


You know carbon fibers were originally created for light bulbs? So, based on your mathematical formulas...

Chittum Laminate = GE 100-watt soft white


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## kylet (Jun 29, 2017)

Str8-Six said:


> Just buy another Ankona and put some HB decals on it.


Save money *and* get all the women, I like it!


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

jsnipes said:


> I don’t really have a dog in this fight but you could say the same thing about EC in the Keys. Feels like every guide in lower Keys has gotten or is getting a Chittum. The Merkin and Del Brown are basically filled w Mavs, couple old Dolphins and Chittums now. Don’t think any guides are running an EC down here?
> 
> Best boat as always depends on what you need it for and how much $ you have to spend...


2 tournaments which dont break a field of more than 25 boats and you have to be accepted to fish? 


Bluwave said:


> Haha, I'm just talking smack because this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. These companies don't inflate prices because of Guide programs; it's because of demand. I'm not sure about Chittum, but Hell's Bay has a pretty lackluster Guide program.
> 
> Yeah, no clue at all. Advertising doesnt cost money at all, and if demand raises prices then why wouldn't ECC raise their price to help shorten lead times? Do you even fish bro?
> 
> ...


----------



## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I think I remember seeing "and if you're not banging into shit you're not fishing to hard" on a Big Johnson T-Shirt back in the 90's.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Str8-Six said:


> Just buy another Ankona and put some HB decals on it.


Or a Beavertail...


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## Rick_Hem (Mar 5, 2018)

Bluwave said:


> Haha, I'm just talking smack because this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. These companies don't inflate prices because of Guide programs; it's because of demand. I'm not sure about Chittum, but Hell's Bay has a pretty lackluster Guide program.


Yea I'm guessing he has a new captains license who got told to pound sand when trying to get a "guide" discount so he now has a bone to pick and tell all us how much he belongs.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

prinjm6 said:


> 2 tournaments which dont break a field of more than 25 boats and you have to be accepted to fish?












it just so happens these 2 tournaments are fished by the best guides and are for the most technically challenging fish that exists in maybe the most challenging location. but ya...


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

jsnipes said:


> it just so happens these 2 tournaments are fished by the best guides and are for the most technically challenging fish that exists in maybe the most challenging location. but ya...


Yeah and it would be real embarrassing if they opened the field up and some joe takes the win.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

SomaliPirate said:


> Or a Beavertail...


I see what you did there


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

prinjm6 said:


> Yeah and it would be real embarrassing if they opened the field up and some joe takes the win.


so, to summarize your position...
Chittum's not fishing random IFA tournaments or whatever in Jax is indicative of their performance...

However, the fact that no Keys guides fish ECs or fish the big keys tournaments is not indicative of performance?


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

jsnipes said:


> so, to summarize your position...
> Chittum's not fishing random IFA tournaments or whatever in Jax is indicative of their performance...
> 
> However, the fact that no Keys guides fish ECs or fish the big keys tournaments is not indicative of performance?


More people fish for redfish in coastal estuaries than the keys hoss, the OP doesnt need a $60-70k chittum to fish his local area. What Keys guides have and run should only influence....people who fish the keys maybe? How many of those guides fish those hulls due to incentives?

As far as IFA being random, its a series that has been around for a few decades now. I'd love to see you come on up and fish them. You dont have to submit an application to be in the "club".


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

This is ridiculous guys. Always a dick measuring contest when anyone asks about boat brands. I do have one thing to interject since we’re here...
TUNNEL HULL OR NOTHING


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

prinjm6 said:


> Yeah and it would be real embarrassing if they opened the field up and some joe takes the win.


Man, no disrespect meant, but you can’t really believe that “some joe” is going to cruise into the keys and win a permit tournament where the winner this year caught a total of 2 fish.... 2! I understand we’re all talking smack and everyone is brand loyal and all, but let’s inject some reality into this conversation. Those anglers literary spend thousands of dollars for few days of fishing, some have skiffs stored in the keys year round just to fish 5-10 days a year, money is no object to them. Yet, they’re still turning to Chittum skiffs more and more. There’s more to it than a good guide program.


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## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

prinjm6 said:


> OP doesnt need a $60-70k chittum to fish his local area.


Agreed. But, if OP is shopping for. “New” HB pro, he’s almost touching $60k anyways. Why not look at them at least... 

For the record, $60k for 18’ of fiberglass is completely and utterly nuts! In any shape, form, or lay up!


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

manny2376 said:


> Man, no disrespect meant, but you can’t really believe that “some joe” is going to cruise into the keys and win a permit tournament where the winner this year caught a total of 2 fish.... 2! I understand we’re all talking smack and everyone is brand loyal and all, but let’s inject some reality into this conversation. Those anglers literary spend thousands of dollars for few days of fishing, some have skiffs stored in the keys year round just to fish 5-10 days a year, money is no object to them. Yet, they’re still turning to Chittum skiffs more and more. There’s more to it than a good guide program.



It wouldn't be some random Joe obviously, FWIW I 100% respect any and all guides/anglers who have the obsession of being the best at catching whatever species it is that scratches their itch. I know I cant go down to key west and spend a month fishing for permit and think I'm going to win.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I laugh my ass off every time I see a new HB Professional with a tunnel and half the prop is below the hull fully jacked up and trimmed flat. Dudes can’t even rig them right from the start, have to get some country bumpkin like me to add a jack plate riser on it to get the lower unit where it needs to be to even begin taking advantage of the tunnel. I verified the motor is mounted the same height on both non tunnel and tunnel models. Good boats just odd rigging.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

Bluwave said:


> I bet fishing with you is a real pleasure. My ECC does this and my dick is this big... blah blah blah blah.
> 
> .


to add to that... I don't know Kevin or Adam well but I've shared a few beers with them before and I would have no issue buying a boat from them. It seems that ECC has been very successful selling skiffs to the younger generation (<35 years old) that is very active online, passionate, and quite frankly a little immature in how they handle themselves. Sadly, this is to company's detriment in winning over the HB crowd.

To a person like me (late 40's), you hurt ECC's reputation when you act like an ass online. I instantly dismiss whatever is said because you have no credibility. 

I don't know Stevie at all, but humility in one's opinion implies wisdom to me. I didn't like the one Chittum I did a casual walk-around at iCast 2017 and I was impressed by the ECC Vantage I spent several hours standing next too at the same show.

In other words, I believe ECC builds a fine skiff and their bay boat build thread on THT was one of the best I've seen. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when a young ECC fan makes an ass of themselves online they are not doing ECC any favors except for those other kids who think talking trash equals quality. 

Frankly, at 48 I've reached a point that I don't care what the skiff cost as long as I can get my money back out of it. What we need here is actual intelligent discussion about layup, hull design, how each handles deck runoff, etc. 

Maybe because of the skiff demographic, but this site is the worst when it comes to people talking out of their ass with intense passion


----------



## manny2376 (Mar 15, 2007)

Half Shell said:


> Frankly, at 48 I've reached a point that I don't care what the skiff cost as long as I can get my money back out of it. What we need here is actual intelligent discussion about layup, hull design, how each handles deck runoff, etc.


Lots of good insight there! I also agree with you about Stevie, as his insight is as objective as you can be and he’s actually owned a skiff from I think all the manufacturers we’ve been speaking of. I’ve personally never understood the fierce brand loyalty behind skiffs as most of us move on from them after a while. Few guys hang onto a skiff for 15-20 years, and the ones who do are usually keeping a HB. 

Back to being objective, I’m curious to see how the construction of these lighter Chittum skiffs plays out after 1000 hours or 300 days guiding. I’m also curious on when used ones start hitting the market when guys eventually upgrade.


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

If you all would like to have a builders perspective on some things like hull design, materials, why we did/do what we do I'm willing to have that. We started EC before 30'yrs old and became a company in 04'. Yes experience/wisdom comes after building 950 plus boats and handling all situations that come with it!

I've seen a lot, learned a lot, and made plenty of mistakes too. However, we are more passionate now than ever and truly believe design, construction, fit n finish, price, and lastly service after the sale is what makes us shine as a whole in today's market.

Fast forward to today we are in our mid-40's...and a boat we built 15 or 10yrs ago is much different than today. All builders are supposed to get better at their craft. From the first day we opened our business till now we believe competition is good for the consumer as this makes us work harder for you...
Now more than ever we are working to not only improve on all the common facets but to also forge ahead in new materials & methods all without the mark-up that some may have in their marketing/models.

To the original OP, I told you on the phone and I'll write it here...no matter what you buy you'll be pleased. It will only come down to what YOU truly feel is best for your needs. Happy skiff shopping!
~ Kevin


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

> this site is the worst when it comes to people talking out of their ass with intense passion


I was with you up to here. Facebook skiff groups and THT make this site look like a Nobel selection committee.


----------



## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Half Shell said:


> was


C


----------



## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

prinjm6 said:


> Lol...they didnt have to. You obviously are financially well off and able to purchase a skiff in the price range. But to say Chittum is not giving certain guides a huge break or even possibly free skiffs on your dime is naive. Chittum, HB and Maverick inflate the cost to everyday consumers to offset their guide and advertising programs. You dont go from a HB one year to a maverick then to Chittum in a few years without any monetary incentive. Hindsight is if you were to build a ECC, HB or Chittum using the same materials for a laminate schedule how would each compare? Did you run a 100% Carbon ECC? Was you HB of comparable layup? Personally I'm not a bitch and will put my skiff through shit and I dont want an exotic layup I cant repair in my driveway, everyone loves these materials they know jack shit about (my experience comes from aviation in which I work with/repair aramid, carbon and S glass). If you dont know the difference between hydrophilic and hydrophobic I dont think we can have a conversation about your unicorn fairy dust laminate schedule on your chittum. We can see if my glass boat out lasts your carbon boat over same hours of use though...and if you're not banging into shit you're not fishing to hard.
> 
> FWIW my logic is this, Chittum is no doubt a lighter skiff that will pole easier than a standard layup HB, Mav or ECC. Ride is all subjective, but at what cost do you pay for ease of poling? I know what I paid for my ECC, I also know what a 18 HPX and Marquesa of comparable build cost, what am I gaining for the extra $7-10k? I have awlgrip, gemlux and edson on my skiff and the glass is from the same vendor. I'm not spending the extra cash on a vinyl decal that reads out differently and puts no more fish in the boat.


Jesus dude - why all the anger? It's attitudes like yours that's contributing to this site going down the shitter.

If you look back at the original post, the OP was asking for comments/opinions from people that had actually _OWNED BOTH_ an HB Professional and an EVOx. Is that you?

I didn't think so....

Speaking of unicorn fairy dust - It looks like I might be one of the only members on the site that has actually owned _both_. I've got plenty of opinions but I'm gonna send my response as a private message to the OP.

This site used to be a great source for sharing & advancing ones knowledge on technology, techniques and intel on new places to fish, but with each new day and replies like the one above, it's looking more and more like a hormonal high schools girls Instagram or Finsta account.


----------



## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Let's keep this going. I want to see this at Hal vs Flip or Go Mr. President levels.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

Net 30 said:


> Jesus dude - why all the anger? It's attitudes like yours that's contributing to this site going down the shitter.
> 
> If you look back at the original post, the OP was asking for comments/opinions from people that had actually _OWNED BOTH_ an HB Professional and an EVOx. Is that you?
> 
> ...


You got me Net 30 im a hormonal high school girl.


----------



## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

SomaliPirate said:


> Let's keep this going. I want to see this at Hal vs Flip or Go Mr. President levels.


PLEASE FOR THR LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE GET TRAILBLAZER IN HERE!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Maverick


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

Yall must have them high dollar gold digging redfish where yall fish. Here in jax they are ok with my great value brand boat. Oh and it floats in 2” and is the driest boat cruises at 55mph with a 40hp. It runs on liberal tears and cow farts. Good luck dont always believe what everyone says.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rookiemistake said:


> Yall must have them high dollar gold digging redfish where yall fish. Here in jax they are ok with my great value brand boat. Oh and it floats in 2” and is the driest boat cruises at 55mph with a 40hp. It runs on liberal tears and cow farts. Good luck dont always believe what everyone says.


Ain’t no dang cattle in Jax...do you have a permit to import those bottled farts?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rookiemistake said:


> Yall must have them high dollar gold digging redfish where yall fish. Here in jax they are ok with my great value brand boat. Oh and it floats in 2” and is the driest boat cruises at 55mph with a 40hp. It runs on liberal tears and cow farts. Good luck dont always believe what everyone says.


Ain’t no dang cattle in Jax...do you have a permit to import those bottled farts?


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rookiemistake said:


> Yall must have them high dollar gold digging redfish where yall fish. Here in jax they are ok with my great value brand boat. Oh and it floats in 2” and is the driest boat cruises at 55mph with a 40hp. It runs on liberal tears and cow farts. Good luck dont always believe what everyone says.


Ain’t no dang cattle in Jax...do you have a permit to import those bottled farts?


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

So good had to say it 3 times, Mack? 

FORDS ARE BETTER!


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Well after 7 pages of this thread, I did actually learn a little about those two boats, which I happen to interested in when I'm ready to sell my Vantage. I am leaning towards the EVOx but want to also try the Fury. My buddy has a Mangrove on order so I'll get to fish it enough to know if I like it or not.


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

kylet said:


> I managed to see your post before (I guess) you took it down. Quality info. I fished in that Marquesa you bought, and know from the guy you bought from how credible you are. I’m not sure when I’ll be buying another boat, but I’d definitely check out the Mangrove 12 if it were today based off what I’ve read from your posts.


Hey @kylet and others, thanks for all the nice comments. I have learned a lot on MS and try to contribute objectively. 

To clarify, I don't own the Marquesa. I just booked it for quite a bit last year in Holbox, which I recommend. The Marquesa owner is @Sabalon, a very nice guy... it's a compliment that you confused me for him...


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Maverick


Smack, Maverick is clearly the King. Tunnels forever


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Seymour fish said:


> Smack, Maverick is clearly the King. Tunnels forever


You know I had to throw it in there.


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

A tiny indetion in your transom is not a tunnel.go to a boat racing page to see a real tunnel boat.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

flysalt060 said:


> A tiny indetion in your transom is not a tunnel.go to a boat racing page to see a real tunnel boat.


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## Sabalon (Aug 16, 2016)

Stevie said:


> Hey @kylet and others, thanks for all the nice comments. I have learned a lot on MS and try to contribute objectively.
> 
> To clarify, I don't own the Marquesa. I just booked it for quite a bit last year in Holbox, which I recommend. The Marquesa owner is @Sabalon, a very nice guy... it's a compliment that you confused me for him...


Hey, Stevie! Thanks for the kind words! Your knowledge of skiffs has become pretty darned impressive. I don’t know much about them when compared to you. I haven’t been able to spend as much time on them as I’d like.

I love the Marquesa and the Chittums. I still can’t catch a $&*@ permit!

If I had to have one boat for all my fishing, it’d be a floorless panga with a 60hp tiller. That boat may not do anything super well, but it sure can do a lot of different things.

Every situation is so different. Every boat is so different. The Marquesa is not at all like the 12 degree Chittum. Much heavier boat with what feels like more beam. That’s better for certain things like as a fishing platform in some chop like fighting big tarpon out of a cage in front of Holbox.

With my 2 degree in Texas I can miss the channel in a creek, literally push pole off the mud, and take off again. The Marquesa would be there until tide change. The 12 degree in Key West eats chop like crazy then poles up on skinny flats.

They all have their situation, place, and probably most important, their person. I really like how light the Chittums are. I also really like the feel and look of the Marquesa.

I’m going to sell the 2 degree someday soon and I’ll be looking at all the brands for sure.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Sabalon said:


> If I had to have one boat for all my fishing, it’d be a floorless panga with a 60hp tiller. That boat may not do anything super well, but it sure can do a lot of different things.


Explain please. Seem to see lot of them on Youtube where they are used by lodges and so forth. Understand they take less power, but exactly what are their characteristics that make them so popular? Thanks


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## Sabalon (Aug 16, 2016)

I apologize for the thread hijack. 

I’ve still had more fun out of a 23’ $10k panga than any other boat. I’ve trolled for sailfish and wahoo, fished lagoons and deep water for tarpon, poled on bonefish flats, deep water jigged for snapper, etc.—all from the same boat. I’ve put six people and all their luggage in one for transport and used one as a snorkel/dive boat.

It’s not really great at any one thing other than carrying people cruising on calm seas or infrequent swell because of the relatively flat bottom, but it’s used for everything in Central and Latin America. In Holbox they put a Yeti cooler in front of the motor and pole off of it and they go shockingly shallow for being so heavy. In Costa Rica we used them for big water tarpon, trolling for pelagics, and jigging reefs and wrecks. I was always surprised to see the captain just ignore huge beam sea swells and leave the tiller unattended, just letting that narrow boat bob up and over.

It’s an overstatement for me to say I’d rather have a panga than any other boat because I would use the one we have more. I still own one in Holbox and we use it in big seas, with several fishermen, or when the more complex set up on the Marquesa has any issues. That’s the other thing about a panga and tiller: lost time because of some possibly unnecessary electrical system breakdown is minimized.

My point is that though I own some very nice boats, no one of them does all the fishing I want to do perfectly. And I think it’s funny that a $10,000 Imemsa panga with a $6,000 Yamaha does all of it—though certainly not as well. For example, you can see the baby tarpon in clear water react to the panga’s pushed pressure wave. So, I’d use the Marquesa for that because it’s wave is much smaller. The Chittum’s is almost not there. 

We ask a lot of our boats from poling very shallow flats to beach tarpon to deep water endeavors. Having one be the absolute best at all those things is extremely difficult. Of the boats I have experience with, the 12 degree Chittum comes closest, but I don’t want to have that big of an investment in a boat in Mexico. Cost is a factor just like draft or weight capacity.

So, specific characteristics of a panga would be versatility, relatively low initial cost, deep and shallow water capabilities, simplicity and low maintenance costs, high weight capacity, and fuel efficiency.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Sabalon said:


> So, specific characteristics of a panga would be versatility, relatively low initial cost, deep and shallow water capabilities, simplicity and low maintenance costs, high weight capacity, and fuel efficiency.


Thank you sir.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Sabalon said:


> So, specific characteristics of a panga would be versatility, relatively low initial cost, deep and shallow water capabilities, simplicity and low maintenance costs, high weight capacity, and fuel efficiency.


Thank you sir.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Sabalon said:


> So, specific characteristics of a panga would be versatility, relatively low initial cost, deep and shallow water capabilities, simplicity and low maintenance costs, high weight capacity, and fuel efficiency.


Thank you sir.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Sabalon said:


> So, specific characteristics of a panga would be versatility, relatively low initial cost, deep and shallow water capabilities, simplicity and low maintenance costs, high weight capacity, and fuel efficiency.


Thank you sir.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Sabalon said:


> So, specific characteristics of a panga would be versatility, relatively low initial cost, deep and shallow water capabilities, simplicity and low maintenance costs, high weight capacity, and fuel efficiency.


Thank you sir


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Didn't mean to repeat that...LOL


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## Stevie (Jun 27, 2017)

Sabalon said:


> I apologize for the thread hijack.
> 
> I’ve still had more fun out of a 23’ $10k panga than any other boat. I’ve trolled for sailfish and wahoo, fished lagoons and deep water for tarpon, poled on bonefish flats, deep water jigged for snapper, etc.—all from the same boat. I’ve put six people and all their luggage in one for transport and used one as a snorkel/dive boat.
> 
> ...


Hey @Sabalon,

You're guilty of hijacking... two thoughtful, dignified and respectful posts about 4 skiffs with comparisons on cross-over and unique applications of each... and NO HATE....

I'm contacting the administrators... not only did you hijack this thread, you hijacked the forum... What is this?? MicroSkiff?

Let's fish soon buddy!


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You know I had to throw it in there.


Damn Straight !


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Sabalon said:


> I apologize for the thread hijack.
> 
> I’ve still had more fun out of a 23’ $10k panga than any other boat. I’ve trolled for sailfish and wahoo, fished lagoons and deep water for tarpon, poled on bonefish flats, deep water jigged for snapper, etc.—all from the same boat. I’ve put six people and all their luggage in one for transport and used one as a snorkel/dive boat.
> 
> ...


Sabalon, we took a 24’ panga with an old Johnson 40 hp from Puerto Cabezas to the mosquito keys in daylight and back in the dark without so much as a compass or a light. Seas got to 6’ which beat us up. There was never a doubt the pangs could handle it


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## [email protected] net (Mar 6, 2019)

manny2376 said:


> Agreed. But, if OP is shopping for. “New” HB pro, he’s almost touching $60k anyways. Why not look at them at least...
> 
> For the record, $60k for 18’ of fiberglass is completely and utterly nuts! In any shape, form, or lay up!


My dad was in yachting shipyards, fished Cuba, Panama in the 1940-1950s and in 2008 that $55k for all 18 HB was BS! But I’d like to fish the Chittum with a KEYES guild this summer. My guide and fried Capt. Jamie Brodie passed years ago so I’m looking for a humble, funny easy going guide again!
I met chittum years ago when he had a shop on East Las Olas 
and he and the HB owner are both nice guys- the boat doomske the trip the company does!
Robert


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## skinnydip (Mar 27, 2016)

SomaliPirate said:


> Hot girls are overrated anyway. My dad always said "if you get you a fat girl, she can keep you warm in the winter and throw a nice shade in the summer".


lmao


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## Vinny L (Oct 20, 2020)

mtoddsolomon said:


> 4" draft fishing 4


“Keyboard Commando” just got a woody😳


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