# HELP! Found water damage in transom....



## jschilli (Jun 30, 2012)

Heres the skinny...  While grinding down the god awful gelcoat work from a previous owner.  I get down to a pocket of water behind some fiberglass.  I grind out the soft glass, and notice a dark spot and start digging to find water damaged/soaked wood!  
So I grab a paddle bit and start looking for more damage in the spots with dark behind the glass.  As from the pics you can see my holes.  I only found the 1 spot, and all around it is dry.  What the heck should i do!!??  
My original intentions was to get the transom smoothed out so I could fabricate a metal transom saddle for the motor vs using the transom.  
Im not capable of redoing the entire transom myself nor do i have the funds to do so... :'(


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

look at that picture:

see the transducer - notice the caulk sealed holes ?
look at the garboard plug - notice anything there ?

i can guarantee you,if you put a moisture meter on that,it's gonna peg it !

"sound" the transom - tap on the transom with a small ball peen hammer - should be a sharp distinct sound,not a dull thud...

you're seeing the end result of terrible butcher work - bet there's more spots than that on it,huh ?


making a plate may seem like a good idea,but,think about it for a second - if there's nothing there,between the skins - "skins" being the inner and outer skins of the hull - where there should be a good solid core,what good is a plate gonna do ?

this isn't what you want to hear: replace it -replace it with a good composite material and be done with it,making an attempt to "repair" it,is a bad move...


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## jschilli (Jun 30, 2012)

Were its been 5200 were all dry holes. Same as the drain plug from what I could tell. I definitely know fixing it right is important. Just feeling slightly overwhelmed.


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## jschilli (Jun 30, 2012)

I just looked at Ken_ 's Hobie rebuild page were he cut the back section out of the transom out to replace it. 
Were can I get detailed info on doing this type of repair? Ive looked at a couple fiberglass repair books and they dont even come close to this type of project.


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

looking at the pictures again:

it "looks" like that transom may have been "raised",look at the seam in the picture...

that may have been a "spacer" to raise the height to 20",versus a 15" transom...

irregardless,it's still gonna need to be recored...

you have any glass experience ?


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## jschilli (Jun 30, 2012)

She originally had her transom butchered and lowered 2". She sounds solid 3/4 of the way up. The top 1/4 of the transom sounds hollow.
No glass experience. I'm pretty good at whatever I do if I know what I'm supposed to do or have good reference material.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

This past weeks ship shape tv replaced a wood transom from the interior. Maybe they have the episodes on the website.


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## CapnK (Jul 6, 2011)

jbird - Sounds like you need a product that Royce/cut runner mentioned for doing just this type of repair - named "Seacast" - website here.


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

sea cast - it may sound like a good idea - however,the old wet,rotted core needs to be removed,otherwise,nothing will adhere to it - this usually requires cutting the inner skin - by the time you get done playing with a cheap pour product,with questionable results,you could've cut the inner skin out,removed the old core,prepped the skin and layed up a new composite core,tied it into the stringers,glassed the inside and refinished - all this,the correct,accepted way.

i put sea cast in the same category as "git rot",a waste of money and time...


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## tomahawk (Mar 9, 2012)

Good info here with pics. They use plywood but the same basic procedures can be used for composites with a different lamination schedule. I'm not a pro by any stretch but I have done a transom replacement as shown in the attached link and it turned out really well. I used meranti plywood and the boat is still going strong for over 10 years now.

http://boatbuildercentral.com/howto/transom_repair/index.php


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## CapnK (Jul 6, 2011)

> sea cast - it may sound like a good idea - however,the old wet,rotted core needs to be removed,otherwise,nothing will adhere to it - this usually requires cutting the inner skin - by the time you get done playing with a cheap pour product,with questionable results,you could've cut the inner skin out,removed the old core,prepped the skin and layed up a new composite core,tied it into the stringers,glassed the inside and refinished - all this,the correct,accepted way.
> 
> i put sea cast in the same category as "git rot",a waste of money and time...


Hi  kreepa -

For clarification: Are we to understand that you have experience with actually using Seacast, or is your post more speculation/opinion?

I ask because I know that Royce/cut runner has seen vessels where Seacast has been used, and he holds a high opinion of it. Given that he works in the marine industry full time, and looking at the quality and care he put into his HPS refit, I am of a mind that he is neither a slouch nor ignorant about what is involved with proper boat repair/construction. Thus, if he says Seacast works and he would personally use it on his own boat, I'd trust him that the stuff works very well indeed, and that the manufacturers claims are legit.

I read through the documentation/instructions on the Seacast website, and they very specifically say to remove any/all old core material.

AFA 'cheap', at ~$200 for 5 gallons, I am not sure that word applies. Ballparking using their estimation tool, a transom on even a somewhat small boat like an HPS is going to require 7+ gallons to recast the whole transom. So Seacast may be even more expensive than a traditional recore using synthetic core materials like the method you suggest in your post.

WRT GitRot - it is a waste, but only in that you can "_roll your own_" with thinned resin, and for applications where it is suitable, it can work well. Attempting to use it to fix wholesale rot and subsequent delamination isn't going to work well. For small jobs and spot repairs that need attention to keep from growing/worsening, but which are not necessarily structural, it has it's uses.

This is from *my* experience, of course. I understand that YMMV. I am just trying to separate opinion from experience, if that is the case.


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> > sea cast - it may sound like a good idea - however,the old wet,rotted core needs to be removed,otherwise,nothing will adhere to it - this usually requires cutting the inner skin - by the time you get done playing with a cheap pour product,with questionable results,you could've cut the inner skin out,removed the old core,prepped the skin and layed up a new composite core,tied it into the stringers,glassed the inside and refinished - all this,the correct,accepted way.
> >
> > i put sea cast in the same category as "git rot",a waste of money and time...
> 
> ...



for the record - i own and operate a marine repair facility...

have i seen "sea cast" fail ? yes i have
would i trust it ? not on a bet !

let's clarify something:
i've seen the sea cast fail in a much different application than a small,low hp powered boats - i've seen it fail,when an owner attempted to repalce the transom in his 23 center console with it - that's what i've seen and repaired...

normally,when a transom core is rotted,due to water intrusion,there's more problems -stringer ends are usually rotted as well.stringers are "tied into" the transom,if there's nothing there,or,what's there is rotted and water logged,not much is going to adhere to that huh ?

a much better,more structually sound repair method is to cut the core out,prep the glass,inspect and perform needed repairs to stringers - to promote a structually secure bond to the replacement transom core.

core material:

there's nothing "wrong" with using wood as a core,provided that wood is laminated with and fully sealed with an epoxy based resin -with any and all openings - garboard plug,scuppers,splashwell drains,etc,properly sealed in epoxy.

however,with everything,technology changes,with composites cores being what they are - strong.light in weight and rot resistant - technology is a good thing !


as far as "git rot" is concerned,the product will never do what the marketing says it will,decks,and other cored surfaces,that are "soft"...there's one way to repair this problem,replace the core,attempting to shoot a product in a void with rotted water soaked wood,that attempt will fail,and fail miseribly...


that was my experience,along with my opinion...


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

YMMV


what exactly does that mean ? sorry,i don't speak "internet" ?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I have used Seacast AND NidaBond from Nida Core in several boats from 14' - 27'.  Both of these products do EXACTLY as they claim and then some.  7 boats and all are still perfect - some 15+ years.

How to use: the way I found easiest was to tear out the inner skin that way you have easy access to grind off the wood stuck to the inside of the outer skin.  Build a new inner skin out of fiberglass and tab it in place.  Support inner and outer walls to prevent bulging and pour the stuff in.  Once filled cap it with glass and wait.

The good: Both are lighter than water, 3,4,5 times as strong as wood, adhere permanently to fiberglass skins.  Both are so hard that they ruin drill bits drilling drain holes.  All screws can be tapped if you choose not to use a bolt.

The bad: From personal experience the only negative is what I would call the cooling process.  The first one I did I did not supprt the walls well enough and after the stuff kicked and started to cool the top edges of the cavity were pulled in a little to creat a slight curve to the very top.  Since then I use a board and screw the board to the skins - have to coat the screw with a release agent.  This prevents the curling.

I will never use wood again.

As for a preference: The last bucket I bought was from Nida Core but I have not ordered anything from them since 3M bought them - the order process is so difficult now, I gave up.  No preference since both companies are located in Florida but now I have to give the edge to Seacast.


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## CapnK (Jul 6, 2011)

No argument from me that synthetics are the superior core material, or that wood can do the job just as well, _if treated properly_. I think we both understand that technique is as important if not moreso than materials when dealing with structural elements and boat repair.

I own and liveaboard a 45 year old sailboat which has end grain balsa-cored decks and doghouse, and besides it have worked in marine composites in several different industries over the years, so our experiences are not that far out. In the case of my sailboat, I was lucky to find one where previous owners had not punctured the deck in too many places with 'bad technique' - _ie_ no overdrill, backfill, re-drill, the proper way to treat *any* core material, IMO. But I have successfully repaired delams where the core material was _dry and still there structurally_, using thinned resins and clamping/weights to rebond the skin. Not just on boats, but also surfboards, sailboards, etc... It is not that the technique/material *won't* work, it is that it won't work if done improperly. BUT - nothing does, that way! Replacing core with WET core, even if it was brand new, ain't gonna work. Keyword being 'wet' - or otherwise damaged and improper. The best materials in the world, won't work at all if they aren't used properly.

HPS transoms are cored with balsa, there is no wood elsewhere on the boat - so you don't have to worry about rotten stringers. I wish they would have used composites in the transom as well, but it is what it is. Given the space and shapes there which provide the reinforcement and stiffening the transom needs, unless the Seacast is just crap, it should work fine. An HPS is probably 1/6th to 1/8th the dry weight of about any given 23' boat. My bro-in-laws Triton LTS at 22' is probably 15x the weight of my HPS, and swings a 225 Merc. I don't think I would use Seacast there, either. Not the right tool for that kind of job. But on smaller, lighter, low hp boats, used properly, I don't see why it _couldn't_ work.

YMMV is shorthand for "Your Mileage May Vary" - meaning it is OK for folks to have different opinions, no harm intended. Thanks for the civil & thoughtful reply.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Kreepa:, your correct, without an excellent cleaning the seacast will not bond, therefore i will fail., i also agree with the stringer views.

However, on an HPS (hobie power skiff), the stringers are solid glass, made from a mold. So no rot there.

As far as the transom, balsa is easy to remove, so i dont see a problem getting the seacast to bond.
If it was plywood on the otherhand, especially if some of it was still good, well thats a different story.

The balsa can be easily removed with a pressure washer, sandpaper sticks, heat guns and air.

Ive used seacast once personally and i like it, everythin has its application tho.

My first experience with it was installing 2 of the big brass 3" diameter underwater lights in a 38 jupiter 2011 model. I burned up 4 brand new hole saws.. Lol.
But they say since its ceramic its completely water proof, as in you dont even need to seal anything which i like! Especially if im constantly changing engine height etc..

Hydrasports also uses it in their 42 CC with quad f350 yamahas..


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## jms (Apr 21, 2011)

> Kreepa:, your correct, without an excellent cleaning the seacast will not bond, therefore i will fail., i also agree with the stringer views.
> 
> However, on an HPS (hobie power skiff), the stringers are solid glass, made from a mold. So no rot there.
> 
> ...


i was unaware this boat's a hobie power skiff - didn't read that anywhere...

a new construction versus an old waterlogged boat - there's a big difference between pouring a transom on a new hull - big difference !
to be assured of a proper bond,the surfaces will require more than cleaning.

transom's - usually made like this:
outer skin,core,inner skin - the stringers are atached to the transom.cleaning all that wood out of the space between 2 skins is going to prove to be quite the chore - it's been my experience,that core's gonna be waterlogged and rotted - nothing will adhere to that - just as i previously explained...

new construction,everything i new,not waterlogged and rotted - apples to oranges comparrison...


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> I have used Seacast AND NidaBond from Nida Core in several boats from 14' - 27'.  Both of these products do EXACTLY as they claim and then some.  7 boats and all are still perfect - some 15+ years.
> 
> How to use: the way I found easiest was to tear out the inner skin that way you have easy access to grind off the wood stuck to the inside of the outer skin.  Build a new inner skin out of fiberglass and tab it in place.  Support inner and outer walls to prevent bulging and pour the stuff in.  Once filled cap it with glass and wait.
> 
> ...



Russ!!  whats up buddy!  Haven't talked to you in a long time, glade to see you are still on here!  My first time back in a LONG time!

Give me a call one morning when you get a chance.

This thread happened to grab my attention.  Check out the link below to a full rebuild of my 23 ' CC Robalo, with 'Ducknut's help!  

I have ran this boat for about 3 years since, including one time in the keys in
the middle of a sub tropical storm (for all practical purposes) while my bilge was FULL of water and being manually emptied a bucket at a time, while 6-8 foot waves crashed over the bow, including one rouge OVER my tee top from the side of the boat!

Needless to say I made it and still here, but it made me a firm beliver that my transom is SOLID!


http://robaloboatowners.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=915&st=0


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## Avidawg (Jun 29, 2012)

Hey JBird.....How's the transom repair going? Have you decided on a repair method and materials? ....Hope it's going well..... any more pics? ~Cheers~


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Yea you might be doing one the same time as me


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## jschilli (Jun 30, 2012)

Well I had a couple different people look at it. Some quoted around $1k-2k. Then I talked to a local boat builder/repair company that I was able to see the work they did and was seriously impressed.
They told me if it was their personal boat, they would seal it up and it'll go +4 years issue free. So I basically did just that plus added a custom transom sleeve and adding a hydraulic jack plate.
Not the perfect route but its the best I can do currently
Pics will be loaded soon...


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## jschilli (Jun 30, 2012)

*Re: HELP! Found water damage in transom....Updated pics*

After Grinding her down.















After getting holes plugged and glassed over.















Gelcoated.







Transom sleeve. Which is being powder coated white right now.


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## Avidawg (Jun 29, 2012)

Nice work! Looks great, you've made lots of progress, thanks for the pics and update....looks like you'll be back on the water soon


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## ronnielay (Aug 1, 2012)

My home town,Sarasota! I miss Sarasota!


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