# Fly Lines - being lazy!



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

For the 9wt, I'd recommend Royal Wulff's Bermuda Triangle Taper.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I'd be careful with most redfish tapers. A lot of the line manufacturers will make them a half line to full line heavier than the advertised weight, so the 9 wt line will actually be a 9.5 or 10wt grain weight. This makes it great for really short quick casts but once you get the head out of the guides it can overload your rod and not turn over. 

I really like the rio permit line. It's a similar taper to the redfish line but it's not overlined. I've never tried the Wulff triangle taper lines but everyone I know that has them loves them.


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## Financekid1 (Jul 19, 2012)

paint it black said:


> For the 9wt, I'd recommend Royal Wulff's Bermuda Triangle Taper.


x10 on this!!! Great line!


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

rakeel said:


> I'd be careful with most redfish tapers. A lot of the line manufacturers will make them a half line to full line heavier than the advertised weight, so the 9 wt line will actually be a 9.5 or 10wt grain weight. This makes it great for really short quick casts but once you get the head out of the guides it can overload your rod and not turn over.
> 
> I really like the rio permit line. It's a similar taper to the redfish line but it's not overlined. I've never tried the Wulff triangle taper lines but everyone I know that has them loves them.



I've been using the SA redfish line recently and I don't believe it's overweighted. I actually am becoming pretty fond of it. I hate the rio redfish.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

crc01 said:


> I've been using the SA redfish line recently and I don't believe it's overweighted. I actually am becoming pretty fond of it. I hate the rio redfish.


Per their website, it's a half-size heavy.

http://www.scientificanglers.com/product/mastery-redfish-warm/

If you use an extra fast rod and depending on your casting stroke, you may not notice it. I actually have this line and use it quite often for redfishing in the marsh. 90% of the time it works just fine but if I need to make a stretch cast I prefer using a longer taper bonefish line or the permit line I mentioned.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Line weights went out the window when rod companies started making super fast rods. Recommended AFFTA line weight for 8wt is 210. Finding an 8wt line at 210gr is almost impossible. Everyone loves Wulff BTT, you know why? It’s 243gr. That makes the rod load very easily but the taper lets you bomb out 75+ft all day. I personally love that line, and 90% of my fishing is sight casting to redfish. Redfish tapers have their place I guess but the rods I use (med-fast) tend to fall apart at distance with short heavy tapers like the BTT Shorts. 

Finding the right line for a rod is part of the fun for me. I love that feeling when you dial in a rod with the perfect grain weight and taper.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

rio bonefish should work well if you can carry 40-50ft on long cast, if you doubt you form the least bit, then join the btt cult!


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

rakeel said:


> Per their website, it's a half-size heavy.
> 
> http://www.scientificanglers.com/product/mastery-redfish-warm/
> 
> If you use an extra fast rod and depending on your casting stroke, you may not notice it. I actually have this line and use it quite often for redfishing in the marsh. 90% of the time it works just fine but if I need to make a stretch cast I prefer using a longer taper bonefish line or the permit line I mentioned.



Oh it's definitely a half size heavy. I meant it's not excessive like similar lines. I really like the Rio Permit. It too is "overweighted" though. The profile definitely lends itself to better distance casts than the SA redfish.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> Line weights went out the window when rod companies started making super fast rods. Recommended AFFTA line weight for 8wt is 210. Finding an 8wt line at 210gr is almost impossible. Everyone loves Wulff BTT, you know why? It’s 243gr. That makes the rod load very easily but the taper lets you bomb out 75+ft all day. I personally love that line, and 90% of my fishing is sight casting to redfish. Redfish tapers have their place I guess but the rods I use (med-fast) tend to fall apart at distance with short heavy tapers like the BTT Shorts.
> 
> Finding the right line for a rod is part of the fun for me. I love that feeling when you dial in a rod with the perfect grain weight and taper.



Wulff BTT really is fantastic. I also seem to have fewer coiling issues with it. Sometimes it doesn't even need to be stretched.


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback!! I have been away. I will check out both and see... 

Anyone have any experience in the cold water? Should I just stick withe the tropical lines I use 98% of the time?? If any of you get the bug to chase steelhead up north - it is a blast!!


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

Just hot an email from Keys Outfitters with the Rio Permit line on sale... 

http://www.floridakeysoutfitters.com/rio-permit-fly-line.html

Beats full price even w shipping,...


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## squeezer1 (Nov 22, 2012)

X2 on the rio permit. I have it in an 8 weight. I did crack the coating on the line, but Rio replaced it. I personally love the way this line casts.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Hmmmm... I defective Rio line? Never seen that before... 

The Wulff Triangle Taper runs a little heavy, but as some pointed out, nearly all lines now run about 1/2 weight heavy. Rio redfish for example is nearly 2 weights heavier, coming in a 290 grains for the 8.

Wulff states on their site that the taper can be cut back depending on the use. I use it for reds, bones, permit and tarpon. Best all around line there is. I don't need a speciality taper for close in shots - I just modify my cast.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

coconutgroves said:


> I don't need a speciality taper for close in shots - I just modify my cast.


Care to elaborate on this? 

I can speed up my casting stroke to load my rod for shorter distances but that usually results in a depth charge-esk presentation.


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## squeezer1 (Nov 22, 2012)

Coconutgroves, 
I knew when I bought it that Rio lines aren't super tough. I love the taper though. I literally beat the crap out of that line. Fishing, lawn and pond casting 2 hours per day everyday since June. I wanted the wulff, but I was on vacation and needed a line. I generally do not like any fly line that is more than 1 weight over the rod weight. They hinge too much for my liking at distance. I'm not a big speciality line fan either.


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## squeezer1 (Nov 22, 2012)

rakeel said:


> Care to elaborate on this?
> 
> I can speed up my casting stroke to load my rod for shorter distances but that usually results in a depth charge-esk presentation.


Try slowing down your stroke in close. The rod doesn't need to catapult for distance. Practice varying your stroke speed and the speed of your double haul until you find your happy medium.


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

Alright no-one mentioned the not being very rugged let alone defective :>)) 
I am pretty tough on my Sh%t. If you saw the line I currently have on my 9wt you would cringe... Can't say as though I clean and condition the line as frequently as I should. Do you mind sharing the exact info. on the Wulf line?

Is it the Bermuda Triangle Taper that everyone likes in two tone???

Thanks guys!!


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## vantagefish (Jul 16, 2014)

Yeah, the BTT. The 2 tone is the same line. Just blue head and tan running line. The regular is all blue. I have one of each, can’t say if i prefer one to the other


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

rakeel said:


> Care to elaborate on this?
> 
> I can speed up my casting stroke to load my rod for shorter distances but that usually results in a depth charge-esk presentation.


Close in shots can be too close to load the rod and conventional casting goes out the window. But you can overhand cast the rod while pulling the line hand and it will turn the fly over. I call it the plop shot.

Overhand casting is putting flicking a back cast behind you, but then dragging the line overhead by raising your arm and hand overhead, then pointing directly down towards the fish for the foreword cast. I need to get video of this.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Aka the Cajun flop


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

Do you guy trust the loops that come already finished with the Rio line??? It looks like it is done right but????

Dave at the Miami Fly Shop always made perfect connections so I always bought my lines form him because I knew they would be bullet proof. My previous line had a double nail knot on the backing to line connection. Should I change out the loop and do the double nail knot???

Thanks again for all your help!!!


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Pbertell said:


> Do you guy trust the loops that come already finished with the Rio line??? It looks like it is done right but????
> 
> Dave at the Miami Fly Shop always made perfect connections so I always bought my lines form him because I knew they would be bullet proof. My previous line had a double nail knot on the backing to line connection. Should I change out the loop and do the double nail knot???
> 
> Thanks again for all your help!!!


I'd say it depends on what you're using it for. I use the welded loops on my 8wt lines that I use in TX bays, but on my bigger setups like my 12wt, I cut the welded loops off and nail knot the back of the fly line and the leader connection I don't use a loop to loop. I guess I just figured if a welded loop fails on a redfish I won't care as much as I would if it was a big tarpon or something. I do keep an eye on my welded loops though bc they will degrade faster than the overall line. If I see the coating is getting damaged I'll go ahead and cut it off. Had this happen on a brand new 5wt line after catching a bunch of big buffalo.



coconutgroves said:


> Close in shots can be too close to load the rod and conventional casting goes out the window. But you can overhand cast the rod while pulling the line hand and it will turn the fly over. I call it the plop shot.
> 
> Overhand casting is putting flicking a back cast behind you, but then dragging the line overhead by raising your arm and hand overhead, then pointing directly down towards the fish for the foreword cast. I need to get video of this.


I believe I know what you're talking about. Had a guy at a casting demo show me this one time. Bring the rod up real high above your head then lay it down. Only thing that I'm unclear of is you mentioned the line hand doing something. Are you hauling during this?


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## squeezer1 (Nov 22, 2012)

Agree with Rakeel on the loops. I do haul on the overhead cast. The little bit of fly line that’s outside the rod tip doesn’t weigh much. The haul generates the turnover speed. Your rod is basically just a slightly flexible broom stick that close. You will have to vary the haul to match wind conditions.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

rakeel said:


> coconutgroves said:
> 
> 
> > Close in shots can be too close to load the rod and conventional casting goes out the window. But you can overhand cast the rod while pulling the line hand and it will turn the fly over. I call it the plop shot.
> ...


That's sounds like it - the trick is to lay it down straight down towards where you want to to cast. I'll elaborate on that in a minute...

The line hand can be used to control the line length. The leader is 9' and if there is a fish at 15' - that's normally a tough shot. You may have out 30' of line on the deck, with at least 10' to 15' of fly line out of the tip of the rod. Let's say it is 15' of line out of the tip, plus 9' of leader. That's 24' of line for a 15' shot.

The plop, or cajun flop can handle this if done right. The line hand can pull the line shorter during the plop. This shortens the overall length of the line to make the shot and also helps lay out the line straight. My arm span is 6' - I can start the plop with my line hand choking up against the first eyelet to grab the line, then pull the line hand all the way back behind me - that just shortened the line by 6'. I am now at 18'.

Now even before the plop you can quickly pull some line in. You can also bring the casting arm up and over head, which in turn means you can bring the rod arm back instead of extending. Doing this with the casting arm just shortened the effective length by another 2'.

The trick for the plop to work right is going directly up, overhand, and directly down. That keeps the line straight and will plop that fly right down where you point the rod tip towards. Some try to side cast, or try loading. Both will fail. Side casting will cause the line to swing at the end of the cast, which causes a very inaccurate cast. Loading won't happen because the cast is so short and there isn't enough head out at that distance.

I don't have any video of this, but the best example I can show is from Harry Potter. Yeah, you guys can raz me over this, I deserve it.










Replace the wand and lightning bolt with the fly rod and fly line, and that's the last part of the plop shot right there.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

coconutgroves said:


> That's sounds like it - the trick is to lay it down straight down towards where you want to to cast. I'll elaborate on that in a minute...
> 
> The line hand can be used to control the line length. The leader is 9' and if there is a fish at 15' - that's normally a tough shot. You may have out 30' of line on the deck, with at least 10' to 15' of fly line out of the tip of the rod. Let's say it is 15' of line out of the tip, plus 9' of leader. That's 24' of line for a 15' shot.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to write that up.


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## squeezer1 (Nov 22, 2012)

Hey rakeel,
Some may consider it cheating, but a tenarka style cast - pull fly and leader with the hauling hand to create tip flex, point at target, then release also works real close.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

coconutgroves said:


> Rio redfish for example is nearly 2 weights heavier, coming in a 290 grains for the 8.


30' head weight on the Rio Summer Redfish is 240 grains so although a slightly different taper it is actually lighter than the BTT. I believe you were closely referring to the Winter Redfish which is 280 grains.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

nativejax said:


> 30' head weight on the Rio Summer Redfish is 240 grains so although a slightly different taper it is actually lighter than the BTT. I believe you were closely referring to the Winter Redfish which is 280 grains.



Rio Redfish used to be 290 grains at 30 feet. It was recently changed. He's probably referring to the old stuff.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

There is now a summer and winter redfish line from rio? Come on.... What's next? Spring and Autumn? Harvest Moon Taper?

I use the same BTT line 12 months a year for reds.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I understand it is silly but was just mearly providing information. I dont change lines with the season, or the moon either. Hahah


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

squeezer1 said:


> Hey rakeel,
> Some may consider it cheating, but a tenarka style cast - pull fly and leader with the hauling hand to create tip flex, point at target, then release also works real close.


You talking like a bow and arrow cast? I've used this for carp and trout in tight spots but haven't tried it with reds. I guess when I see a red up close it's just not in my instinct to go to that cast but I may have to try and change that.


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## squeezer1 (Nov 22, 2012)

rakeel said:


> You talking like a bow and arrow cast? I've used this for carp and trout in tight spots but haven't tried it with reds. I guess when I see a red up close it's just not in my instinct to go to that cast but I may have to try and change that.


Yup, easy like a Sunday morning. There is also less rod movement than a regular cast as far as spooking a fish goes.


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## GaterB (Nov 10, 2021)

994 said:


> Line weights went out the window when rod companies started making super fast rods. Recommended AFFTA line weight for 8wt is 210. Finding an 8wt line at 210gr is almost impossible. Everyone loves Wulff BTT, you know why? It’s 243gr. That makes the rod load very easily but the taper lets you bomb out 75+ft all day. I personally love that line, and 90% of my fishing is sight casting to redfish. Redfish tapers have their place I guess but the rods I use (med-fast) tend to fall apart at distance with short heavy tapers like the BTT Shorts.
> 
> Finding the right line for a rod is part of the fun for me. I love that feeling when you dial in a rod with the perfect grain weight and taper.


I'm new to fly fishing, and I'm seeing the grain weights all over the place (as you mentioned, always higher than the AFFTA standard). Would you guys and gals recommend going with a line weight that is true to the weight of the rod (i.e. a 7wt line that's 210 for an 8wt rod), or stick with the manufacturer's recommendation? Thanks in advance!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

No one's spoken up about cold water lines... If you're only going one time - use your normal tropic lines (and find out why they make coldwater lines...) but if more than once go ahead and get a cold water line - you'll be glad you did... 

The reverse is true for someone coming down here with all coldwater lines... One or two days - you'll put up with it being all limp and not shooting the way you're used to... More than that... get the right lines for the tropics (or at least one line for the rod you use the most...).


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Pbertell said:


> I am just starting my research but thought I would be lazy and see if I can get pointed in the right direction. I have two fly line related questions -
> 
> I need a new 9wt. fly line for my Thomas and Thomas rod. It is an older rod and doesn't load very well with just a little bit of line beyond the tip top. Once I get 25 feet out it hums... Would it be wise to go with a redfish taper or something along those lines? It is my all around rod (meaning always in the boat inshore and offshore) and I may throw at bonefish one day, cudas the next and snook and reds on another. I am pretty sure it has a regular floater on it now... It is my favorite rod because of versatility and I don't want to mess that up either - It was my first rod and I have been using it for all these years so it is not dire that I mess with it but w new technology and lines I guess I should look.
> 
> ...


My Steelhead clients that tried to fish with tropical takers found that their lines would remain hopelessly coiled in the cold winter water making it hard to cast and mend!


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

Pbertell said:


> any experience in the cold water?





lemaymiami said:


> cold water lines...


The coiling will be a hassle with a tropic line in an icy river.
Even freshwater lines need to be "straightened" now and then fished in cold conditions.
Steelhead and salmon normally won't go out of their way much to "eat" a fly so the fly line can make all the difference in the flys presentation. My main three steelhead/salmon rods have more lines than for any other species. Depending on conditions I have a 6, 7 and 9 wt rods and the lines run from WFF, sink tips to shooting heads (which I've 5 sink rates) plus a couple custom shooting heads.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Pbertell said:


> Thanks for the feedback!! I have been away. I will check out both and see...
> 
> Anyone have any experience in the cold water? Should I just stick withe the tropical lines I use 98% of the time?? If any of you get the bug to chase steelhead up north - it is a blast!!


I would ditch the tropical lines for cold water, winter steelhead fishing.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Pbertell said:


> Do you guy trust the loops that come already finished with the Rio line??? It looks like it is done right but????
> 
> Dave at the Miami Fly Shop always made perfect connections so I always bought my lines form him because I knew they would be bullet proof. My previous line had a double nail knot on the backing to line connection. Should I change out the loop and do the double nail knot???
> 
> Thanks again for all your help!!!


I haven’t had any problems with factory loops. If you decide to double nail knot, make sure that you seal the knots with aqua seal or some other similar product so that you don’t get water intrusion into the core of the fly line as it will cause the tip to sink (not good on a floating line).


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

coconutgroves said:


> Hmmmm... I defective Rio line? Never seen that before...
> 
> The Wulff Triangle Taper runs a little heavy, but as some pointed out, nearly all lines now run about 1/2 weight heavy. Rio redfish for example is nearly 2 weights heavier, coming in a 290 grains for the 8.
> 
> Wulff states on their site that the taper can be cut back depending on the use. I use it for reds, bones, permit and tarpon. Best all around line there is. I don't need a speciality taper for close in shots - I just modify my cast.


Which Wulf line do you use? They make several different type lines that are labeled Bermuda.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Which Wulf line do you use? They make several different type lines that are labeled Bermuda.


They make a few different Bermuda Triangle Taper lines:

1. Two tone, standard taper, floating - this is great since the color change marks the head and great to judge distance. This is my go to floating line for bones, permit, tarpon

2. Same as above but single color line and head

3. Shorts line - more compact head - great for reds, bass and closer in casts. Not a delicate line though - I would not use it for bones, permit and tarpon - the head is compact, so more weight lays down. A longer taper is better for those fish.

4. Ghost tip intermediate - same as the standard taper, but a clear intermediate head line. I have this in 8, 9, 10 and 12 weight and use it for snook and tarpon, but have also used it for striped bass.

They do make a new texture on the standard taper - I haven't used it yet. The existing lines have a texture, but not as drastic as what Sharkskin was (I hated that lined).


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

coconutgroves said:


> They make a few different Bermuda Triangle Taper lines:
> 
> 1. Two tone, standard taper, floating - this is great since the color change marks the head and great to judge distance. This is my go to floating line for bones, permit, tarpon
> 
> ...


 Thanks, I had the short line and hated it, I never used their standard taper but have wanted to try them. I currently have Airflo Tropical Punch line on my 8wt Meridian which has a little longer head at 40'.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Thanks, I had the short line and hated it, I never used their standard taper but have wanted to try them. I currently have Airflo Tropical Punch line on my 8wt Meridian which has a little longer head at 40'.


I love the shorts for reds - great close in line, but not the best for accuracy at distance


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