# Murphy's Law at it Again...Cooling Problem



## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Okay well I just did the water pump last night and took it out today. There is something blocking the system! The alarm went off twice today, once before I knew there was an issue and once after I thought it was solved.

It'll pee great at idle but when I get up to higher RPM, it'll plug up. Then I'll reduce RPM back to idle and it's still plugged up. The problem was first noticed after scraping through some of the bottom (negative low today) at idle and it got plugged up.

I tried the high test line trick and it temporarily worked but that didn't last long.

I got back home and pulled the lower unit. I then vacuumed, back-flushed, and anything I could think of to the LU and water pump. No help! It keeps clogging for some reason...

So...was are my options here?


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## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

Stop running it in the mud and grass, lol


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> Stop running it in the mud and grass


Too true SW, too true... 

RK, you're going to have to flush out the block.
Possibly by removing the thermostat, or the exhaust cover.
You've pushed something up into the passages,
now you've got to figure out which one is blocked.
I've used compressed air, the vacuum cleaner
pipe cleaners, weedwhacker line, and parts removal
to find and eliminate clogs. Caused not by hitting bottom,
but by running through sargassum patches offshore,
and getting chunks sucked up into the outboard.
If it's not one thing, it's another.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Murph man you got some issues don't ya. At this rate we will never make it to Ft. D on the same days.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

So I thoroughly examined the system of water flow through the block. Why did I get a 4 stroke again? One of the things I miss about the 2 stroke...SIMPLICITY!

It comes through the block (pending the thermostat), enters the "fuel cooler", and then out of the motor. ALL of these areas are very difficult to access and would probably require some major disassembling...or baby hands...

But, from what I saw, there is no reason why the back flush shouldn't have knocked it out...apparently my judgment doesn't mean anything, though.

I guess this is a project for tomorrow...if anyone wants to come over and help, let me know ;D

Keep the advice coming...and the "not running through sand/mud" is permanently noted...


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

> So I thoroughly examined the system of water flow through the block.  Why did I get a 4 stroke again?  One of the things I miss about the 2 stroke...SIMPLICITY!
> 
> It comes through the block (pending the thermostat), enters the "fuel cooler", and then out of the motor.  ALL of these areas are very difficult to access and would probably require some major disassembling...or baby hands...
> 
> ...


U keep fugged up everything u use... ;D ;D ;D

U need me to come over or bring the boat over and I can help u out my my time is wayy too tight! ;D


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

Oh I forgot.....

The most common to get clogged up with mud,sand, and weeds is the thermostat.

So before u do anything....just take the thermostat out and then bolt it back in.

Then run the motor with water hose and ear muffs in idle speed. 

Let me know how the motor pee without the thermostat.

If it does pee really good then it's the thermostat. If not then it's something else.

Hope this help.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Check your PMs snooky. And I'm thinking it may be the thermostat...I'll check tomorrow...


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

another thought but kind of a slim chance that the vanes on the impeller got damaged from the sand and a piece of it is clogging.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Another possibility is you put the impeller in with the wrong rotation and when you rev'd up the motor you shredded the impeller and one of the pieces got sucked up the tube.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

I pulled the LU again and took the WP housing off. Everything looked great. Impeller looks as good as the day I took it out of the box...which just happened to be 2 days before 

I pulled the thermostat and Shop-Vac'd in there...which I'm guessing would include the water jacket. I need to get a new gasket (which no one has, of course, so it has to be ordered) so I can test it.

I also pulled the top off the "fuel cooler" and Shop-Vac'd the passages in there (not the ones containing fuel, of course).

That's all I can think of...I don't know what else I could possibly do.

If this doesn't work, I guess I'll just have to take it in for warranty work. Hopefully they won't notice it's been "tampered" with.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

RK, you better get a Saint Eligius medallion to attach to that block!
Maybe that'll exorcise the hoodoo that seems to be drawn to you... 
Can't hurt...might help... 

Who's Saint Eligius? The Patron Saint of Mechanics!


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

> RK, you better get a Saint Eligius medallion to attach to that block!
> Maybe that'll exorcise the hoodoo that seems to be drawn to you...
> Can't hurt...might help...
> 
> Who's Saint Eligius? The Patron Saint of Mechanics!


Hahaha!! I like that idea! I've tried doing things the normal way (i.e. - proper maintenance, etc.) and I'm willing to try anything!

Anyway everything is bolted back up. I put some RTV gasket maker on the thermostat cover temporarily to test it with and without the thermostat in.

I ran it sans thermostat and there was very little water pressure. Which makes sense...

I revved the RPMs up pretty high and nothing seemed to get clogged.

Then I put 'er back in the garage, unbolted everything (again!), cleaned off the thermostat, cleaned off the surfaces, reapplied the gasket maker, and bolted everything back up. Now I'm just waiting for it to dry a good bit before test #2.

Cross your fingers...


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Did you know that you can cut your own gaskets?
Before gasket kits in a box, it was normal to have a roll of gasket material in the shop.
You simply made what you needed on site, no waiting on shipping or back orders.
I remember tapping gasket shapes directly from car engine parts using a ball peen hammer.

Here's a how to...

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240437


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

not to make liight of the situation but i think i know more about mercury cooling now than i ever did thanks to the trial and tribulations murphy has endured, good luck getting it squared away dude


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Well I ran the motor with the thermostat and here are some observations I made.

First, I know why the motor started to pee intermittently or quit at high RPM on the hose...the earmuffs would slide around due to vibration! [smiley=1-doh.gif]

Second, I fixed this issue by filling up a big trash can and running the motor in there. Here I was able to get the most realistic depiction of how it would be on the water, anyway.

Unfortunately, it didn't go how I had hoped...the stream is somewhat strong but still sputters and the motor seems to be running hotter than it should. It feels as if it's running hotter than my 2 stroke. I took the RPM up pretty high (probably close to max once on accident) and ran it for 10-15 seconds a couple of times at probably around 1/2 to 3/4 of max. It started to smoke a little but stopped when it idled for a few seconds. I also noticed that the exhaust housing was fairly hot, as well. I don't like how this is looking...

I'm going to call the dealer tomorrow and hope for some "warranty" work. Hopefully they're willing to work with me...can't be affording a big bill right now. :-/


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

keep in mind brother that the water is recirculating so the water going in the motor is continually getting warmer the longer you run it when you run it in a garbage can unless maybe your cycling that water out with fresh cooler stuff :-? :-/


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

> keep in mind brother that the water is recirculating so the water going in the motor is continually getting warmer the longer you run it when you run it in a garbage can unless maybe your cycling that water out with fresh cooler stuff :-? :-/


I was. I had the hose going continuously when it was running to keep cool water in there.

Anyone have any other thoughts on what this could be? The issue wasn't present until after I did the water pump job...


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

hey murph not to sound like a jackass, but are you sure you put the impeller in the right direction? if it was installed in the wrong rotational direction it would pump some water but not alot.


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm too tired to typed this...before I was planned about going to econ river today but end up cutting trees at the house in 6am in the morning and went to the zoo for few hours with a family.


Please Please don't trottle up 3/4 turn and that's cause mis firing over reving the motor that's can caused to smoke.

Just leave it to idle to 1/4 throttle when u running at home.

I hope u can take it to the dealer tomorrow and tell them u have warrenty on the motor. Just tell them u want to have them to check out through the motor completely.

Hope everything goes well.....

U need to get back on the water than worry about the motor went wrong all the time....;D.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

That's no 2 stroke for sure, looking at the parts diagrams on line.
All sorts of cooling passages, complicated, including a pressure grommet.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc2/Mercury/25%20EFI%20(3%20CYL)(4-STROKE)/0R106999%20&%20Up/Driveshaft%20Housing/parts.html


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Thank you Brett for reminding me of a "grommet".

There is also a grommet at the top of the intake tube and if you took the tube out you may not have gotten it in properly and that could be pinching things.

Also that grommet is a focal point for corrosion. Use in salt water will cause corrosion to grow behind it and with time grow and squeeze the grommet closed.

Good luck at the dealer.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

this issue has me wondering now about what part or the cooling system is the "bottle neck"? i have had junk get stuck at the pee hole but never in the engine itself and i have sucked up a lot of mud and trash in my days :-/


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Most outboards have an intake screen to prevent large particles from getting into the block.
That screen is visible at the water inlet on the lower unit. Holes are about the same size as the whizzer tube.
Impact and vibrations can damage the screen and allow larger particles through. Usually a problem on older motors.
My biggest cooling problems over the years were blocked intakes, improperly installed o-rings or gaskets,
impeller separation from the bushing, stuck thermostats, deposits on internal  passageways caused by heat, salt water, and aluminum blocks.

The silliest reason for overheating I've ever seen, was leaving the flush muffs on, when launching.

Wasn't me! ;D


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

RK, having run one of those in all kinds of temps, (and even back-to-back with the 2-stroke) I can say that they run hotter than the 2-strokes. The pee stream will be hot. At times almost too hot to hold your hand under. 

I never had an alarm go off, but it does run hot. I think because of the EFI system. I remember back in my old drag racing days of the early 90's mustangs they ran at 180 degrees from the factory, which is HOT! Something about the emissions....

Anyways, if you're having the alarm go off, it's one of two things: either the thermostat is the wrong temp or possibly even malfunctioning, or you have a clog. 

Also, DO NOT take the way it runs on the muffs as being golden. For some reason I've never had luck doing that, and comparing it to how it runs in actual open-water conditions. Good or bad. 

Have you tried a piece of weed-eater string in the pee hole? I usually carry a good length of it in every boat is it's stiff enough to get in there and root things out, but very flexible so it'll make the bends. 

-T


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

Yeah I learned about rooting out the 'Ol peehole while rocking around in Tampa bay in the old classic ...

Motor was fine ... gunk in the Peehole ...

Ok I Can't resist how often can you say peehole on a blog ...


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Boat and motor are at the dealer now. They said I should hear from them sometime tomorrow. Hopefully the news is good...

I'll keep you guys posted...thanks for the help! I think we were all stumped on this one...


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Dude, not trying to be a dick at all, but you have terrible luck.
You should definitely just let a professional do the job, with your luck, who knows what could go wrong. lol


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

> Dude, not trying to be a dick at all, but you have terrible luck.
> You should definitely just let a professional do the job, with your luck, who knows what could go wrong. lol


You're not being a dick...just making an accurate observation. No matter how "right" I do something to an outboard, something goes wrong. I don't get it...


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Got it back today from Piper's and there was nothing wrong with it. They said it was probably just mounted up too high on the transom. Their shop is on a creek and they ran it at all speeds with no problems.

I had lowered the JP 0.5" before I took it in. Maybe that's what made the difference...

So, $60 later, everything is supposedly good to go.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

That's great!

Thankfully nothing was wrong internally.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Sounds like a load of crap...unless when you had it in the garbage can you did not submerge the intake holes.

I sure hope it works for you. I am tired of reading the wretched love affair between you and your motors. It is beginning to read like Sandra Brown.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

I second that notion. 

Anyone taking bets the dealer never ran it??

-T


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Haha you guys are so negative...

The dealer is a very reputable place around here and I know many that wouldn't take their rig anywhere else.

On top of that, the owner is a very good friend of a good friend and my friend is the one who sent me over there.

Trust me...I wouldn't take it just anywhere...did that once and will never do it again!

;D


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Not negative in the least bit. Quite the opposite in fact.

Not only are these guy mechanics, they are magicians. They can fix a motor that the day before had all kinds of things that were checked and nothing corrected the issue, but they fixed it by backing it into a creek.

Must be "Holy Water".

If it works tell them that after duck season is over I'll bring them my 6 motors and for less than 1/2 of a single repair bill I can get them all fixed. 

How's that for optimistic...I am going to save a bundle. ;D


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2009)

> I second that notion.
> 
> Anyone taking bets the dealer never ran it??
> 
> -T



As one of to founding members of this site, I don't like where this is going.

This is a negative post and IMHO unfair.  Seems that before they just started tearing down the motor and replacing parts @95.00 per hour maybe, just maybe they would run it first and found nothing wrong?  Then charged a shop minimum @ 2/3rds the normal shop rate?  

I know that dealership now relies on service as it's sole source of income and I did business with them back in the 80's.  I remember standing at the service counter to pick up some parts and a customer was very unhappy.  The owner came out and went over the bill for the work performed per the customers request confirmed by both sides.  The owner finally asked what the customer thought would be a fair amount for the work performed and accepted it as full payment.

as always, just my .0000000000000002 sense

And Murph, I'm still super busy for the next couple of weeks but after that, you need to bring that thing over and we'll cure it or kill it 

CR


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

> > I second that notion.
> >
> > Anyone taking bets the dealer never ran it??
> >
> ...


Haha good stuff. Yeah they were very fair and that's exactly what they did. Then after they tested it, they pulled the LU just to make sure everything was in okay because they knew I did the job myself. He spend almost 2 hours with it and they charged me for 2/3 of an hour.

Just give me a call anytime Capn' and we'll work something out.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> > I second that notion.
> >
> > Anyone taking bets the dealer never ran it??
> >
> ...


Ron, absolutely I agree with you. I don't want this thread or forum to turn negative. 

But, you should know me better by now to think I would publicly bash a company. I've done that just once since I've been on this forum and only because I really felt that company really, really deserved it. But, in hindsight it was wrong of me to do so. 

Everything else I've done what my mother taught me and didn't say anything at all!

I like this forum and want to see it stay positive. That's probably THE biggest thing that draws me here. 

It should be noted, however, that the company wasn't named and we were just talking generic "mechanic" at that point. We also had limited information, a lot more of which has come to light since my post. 

Doesn't make it right for me to post what I did though. 

At the time of my post, RK was having what I felt was a valid issue with his motor, he brought it to a (unknown) dealer and the motor was returned untouched with the outcome of "there's nothing wrong with it". 

Suffice to say we've all (RK included I might add) had bad experiences with outboard mechanics. My post was a generalization of those instances and not meant as a derogatory comment toward any particular dealer.

I enjoy the forum the way it is and particularly your honest and at times colorful input. If I've offended you in any way shoot me a PM and we'll get it worked out over a cold one. Meant no harm to any specific dealer nor the forum and certainly not to you. 

Back to the thread topic at hand!

-T


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

RK,

We know I can't make it due to family stuff but I'm free on this sunday.....PM me and let's set-up a plan for this sunday and I can help u out anyway u can.

Just let me know......


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2009)

> > > I second that notion.
> > >
> > > Anyone taking bets the dealer never ran it??
> > >
> ...


No offense taken but out of fairness to the people who performed the work, please reread the thread.  Source of work is noted in "reply #29" and the comment in question is "reply #32".  I hope you understand my position now.  

Yes, I have seen some shady mechanics but if you don't trust them, why on earth would you leave your boat with them?  If I have any doubts, I just seek out another source and move on.

I just ask that people remember that this is the www .

CR


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Obviously I need to invest in new reading glasses when I get done with paying off my etiquette classes....



-T


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm lazy and busy so I didn't re read this post but did the overheat alarm go off just on the water or in the trash can too? If only on the water then yes it must have been too high on the transom and when the mech ran it he never ran it as fast to where the water got below the pickup? Just tossin ideas around.

Maybe what ever was wrong like a simple clog was loosened up by what ever RK did and flushed out when the mech ran it.

boats are strange creatures.


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