# There is still more fish they could catch



## Padre (Jul 29, 2016)

Do other states have limits at all? https://www.instagram.com/p/B0ecaupA1wb/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

You may want to avoid LA fishing pics altogether.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

Im not sure I understand your post. Looks like a couple kids went and caught some limits. Looking at his Instagram, it doesnt look like he saltwater fishes often. Perhaps they'll eat those over the next couple of weeks/months.


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## Padre (Jul 29, 2016)

KurtActual said:


> Im not sure I understand your post. Looks like a couple kids went and caught some limits. Looking at his Instagram, it doesnt look like he saltwater fishes often. Perhaps they'll eat those over the next couple of weeks/months.


You're right. I shouldn't be that guy. I posted it because I have seen it around here where guys take their limits every time they can because they can. Now, the limit is just one per person. I know these resources are not going to last forever, even in Texas. And I don't want to be that guy that because I don't keep everything I catch, I think others should do that. But I probably wouldn't post it if I did.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

KurtActual said:


> Im not sure I understand your post. Looks like a couple kids went and caught some limits. Looking at his Instagram, it doesnt look like he saltwater fishes often. Perhaps they'll eat those over the next couple of weeks/months.



This community seems to have a general dislike for keeping limits of fish. Just kinda how these guys roll. 

That being said I only keep enough fish in a trip to feed my family for one night. Sometimes Ill keep something for the neighbors but in general I keep very few fish. I do this not because I think its bad to keep a lot of fish but because I like the taste of fresh, not frozen fish.


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## Snakesurf (Jun 18, 2019)

Looks like he was in Port O'Connor Texas at Zephyr Cove. Please don't post pics like this or else the TPWD will ban fishing all together.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Ridiculous.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

If them redfish were smart they'd swin to Swfl where you cant keep redfish snook or trout still.


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

I once kept two reds while on vacation in the panhandle. I seriously thought the limit was two. I felt terrible about it. Luckily the in-laws came down too and we all had a great dinner.


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

Padre said:


> You're right. I shouldn't be that guy. I posted it because I have seen it around here where guys take their limits every time they can because they can. Now, the limit is just one per person. I know these resources are not going to last forever, even in Texas. And I don't want to be that guy that because I don't keep everything I catch, I think others should do that. But I probably wouldn't post it if I did.


I’m that guy. I don’t ever keep fish unless it’s a cobia or triple tail and the very rare occasion where I’ll keep a red fish. I’ve turned away charters from people that want to book me and fill the cooler. That’s not me or my daily practice and I don’t agree with it therefore I don’t take the trips. 

I honestly forgot what snook taste like. 

let me stop there before I get to carried away. This topic can get me wound up! Haha


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2020)

Big Fish said:


> This community seems to have a general dislike for keeping limits of fish. Just kinda how these guys roll.
> 
> That being said I only keep enough fish in a trip to feed my family for one night. Sometimes Ill keep something for the neighbors but in general I keep very few fish. I do this not because I think its bad to keep a lot of fish but because I like the taste of fresh, not frozen fish.


Yeah, fresh is best! And... makes for a great excuse to go fishing more often!


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## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

Boatbrains said:


> Yeah, fresh is best! And... makes for a great excuse to go fishing more often!


Exactly I’m all about keeping what you will consume that night. But I’ve had people call me and ask me about catching limits of macs, snappers, reds and trout. That’s where I draw the line.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2020)

sotilloa1078 said:


> Exactly I’m all about keeping what you will consume that night. But I’ve had people call me and ask me about catching limits of macs, snappers, reds and trout. That’s where I draw the line.


Yeah, I agree! I’ll keep a red or trout for me and my wife or to give to my Mom but don’t try to limit out on everything all the time! If I want to do a fish fry for family/friends it is usually mullet “I am a deep rooted Cracker after all”!


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I did not check out his IG feed or whatever else, but I’ll bet $5 that he and his buddies don’t kill bass back home. The shift of otherwise C&R bass fishers that come down here to “fill coolers” stuns me. They KNOW better. Kill supper while you’re here, but don’t take everyone’s resource to burn in your freezer...


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I got into a discussion on another forum (not sure why I keep going there, the idiocy is rampant) and mentioned that we should release more fish and maybe keep one or two for a fresh dinner. I actually got internet yelled at but some yahoo that said catch and release was for bass fishing and that when he came to the salt, that was for filling up the freezer.

Those hero pics with a couple stringers full of limits heaved over the shoulder or laid out on the deck really do make me cringe, especially when it is guides doing it. They of all people should be leading the charge in promoting catch, photo and release and not kill, post to social media, stroke ego, freezer burn fish.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

In my experience its usually guys who dont fish very often that want to keep them for the freezer. 6 fishing days of limits in most states has less of an impact than a guy who fishes 60 days per year and usually keeps one, or two for dinner.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

The impact comes from the attitudes and expectations set by images such as that. The guides that push the hero shots of limits of dead fish for more business and the jackass “sportsmen” who book them for limits. You don’t see that shit in any other fisheries that these same “sportmen” fish.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Surffshr said:


> The impact comes from the attitudes and expectations set by images such as that. The guides that push the hero shots of limits of dead fish for more business and the jackass “sportsmen” who book them for limits. You don’t see that shit in any other fisheries that these same “sportmen” fish.


I think a lot of the hate is misplaced on the anglers, or the guides trying to make a living. Its hard for me to take shots at people who are just following the rules that are given. If the state sees fit for a limit of 6 fish then guys are going to keep 6 fish. If you have a problem with the state limits take your issue up with the state, not the law abiding citizens.


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## TexasSightcaster (Apr 4, 2019)

i have to drive over 3.5 hours to go saltwater fishing. When I make the drive down there, I’m bringing home my limits if possible. I eat what I catch and fish doesn’t last long at my house. As long as I’m following the rules and not letting it go to waste, I don’t see the issue. Keeping fish is part of conservation. I also hunt and bring home deer, it’s all the same thing to me. No one is going to shame me into CPR only fishing. I don’t do it for the meat haul, but it’s definitely a plus. I may feel differently if I had the opportunity to fish daily/weekly like most of you. That’s why I don’t keep Bass unless it’s gut hooked and I don’t think it’ll survive a release (assuming it’s a legal size). Then again, Bass isn’t nearly as good as redfish, trout, or flounder.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

One day we will realize the regulations were bullshit based on another money making scheme like everything else and we should have all been more conservative. There’s nothing wrong with eating some fish but some people make an ass out if themselves when they do it. Don’t get butthurt when people don’t like social media photos of meat hauls from guys fishing for likes...and for the “poor guides are just trying to make a living” crowd...pull your heads out of your ass and think about that a little harder. If fishing is their livelihood then why wouldn’t they be the BIGGEST proponent for conservation instead of meat hauling and killing every big sow trout that hits the deck no matter if it’s legal or not? This is coming from a guy that has more guides for fishing buddies than not.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I do take issue with the state and limits they set. I agree that folks obeying the law are certainly within their right to keep a limit. I also know plenty of dudes that won’t keep a single bass (even though the state allows it) and kill limits of fish on the coast. I’d say that most think because they are in the ocean there are unlimited fish.

@TexasSightcaster shooting deer and catching fish are not the same. There is no option to C&R. I don’t care how far you live from the salt. I travel further than that to fish inland waters and don’t expect to keep limits because I traveled.


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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

The limits are set in place for a reason. The people smarter than me say that if I bring that many home it wont affect the population. That being said I dont keep any but maybe the one that will make a meal. I cant get my wife to eat fish. But the thinking to leave a bass but not ours is ludacris. I grew up in Georgia with a pond in front of my house. You could eat all you wanted and the thing was still full. A guide posts pics to get business. A guy from out of town wants all he can get. If we all take what we will use and follow the rules it will all work out. They tag reds every year, if the limits need to change it will. Let's all just be smart.... the grouper limit is stupid now so all of you that throw them back it wont affect but the guys doing it for a living will suffer. Let's all just eat good and let the studies tell what we can eat. 

Sorry for the rant. Michael


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Having seen way too many "rodeos" at Rockport / Aransas Pass over the years and the resultant massive redfish kills, it frankly makes me sick to see these assholes come here and rape the resources. A couple fish here and there to eat fresh yeah that's OK. But like in that picture, clearly is just nonsense. And it is true that the state does need to revise the limit in the worst way. No doubt about that. But even better would be sportsmen who took it on themselves to exercise self-restraint in what they keep. Unfortunately, south Texas salt water fishermen seem to have no qualms with meat-hauling and guess what every last one of them will say? "Hey man, just keeping the lawful limits. Go fuck yourself". Yep that is what you're going to hear from those ass-hats. So, all you guys from the hill country come on down, get your limits, but don't start the belly-achin' when yall come over here and go back home with no fish. Cause yall killed all of 'em already. Of course in addition to all the old regulars who go every single weekend with the express intent to kill every single friggin fish they can legally stuff in a box. Like the guy who worked at Valero, who would go every Sat and Sun, over to the Klondike, with his kid, and between them catch 8 to 10 limits of reds each day, in between taking them back over to Gregory to drop off and go right back out to soak bait on the bottom, with a bunch of lines out from nasty old bait casters, and just absolutely rape the area. That is the mentality of south Texas salt water fishermen. Except for the guys who fly fish. So seeing pictures like the one with the asswipe having all those fish slung over the shoulder, that crap is REALLY UNIMPRESSIVE.


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## GaG8tor (Jul 8, 2019)

Preach it, brother


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2020)

Well this thread settles it... I’m goin’ to get the gill nets out and get my freezers good and full before these clowns catch’em all!


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## TexasSightcaster (Apr 4, 2019)

Surffshr said:


> I do take issue with the state and limits they set. I agree that folks obeying the law are certainly within their right to keep a limit. I also know plenty of dudes that won’t keep a single bass (even though the state allows it) and kill limits of fish on the coast. I’d say that most think because they are in the ocean there are unlimited fish.
> 
> @TexasSightcaster shooting deer and catching fish are not the same. There is no option to C&R. I don’t care how far you live from the salt. I travel further than that to fish inland waters and don’t expect to keep limits because I traveled.


Take that up with TPWD. Like I said, no one is going to shame me into C&R only fishing. I only take what I’m allowed and what I know I’ll consume. I have zero guilt about it because I’m not doing it every weekend. I’m lucky if I get to go down once a month, and then I’m lucky to even catch a few keepers, so yea when I do catch a limit I’m eating good. 
As for the deer hunting reference, it’s pretty obvious to anyone you can’t C&R a deer. But you do have the option of passing on them which is the same damn thing. I only shoot what I’m bringing home for food and I don’t let it go to waste. Hunters and fisherman are this nations conservationist. Our money goes directly to funding the conservation of the resources we enjoy. Taking fish is part of conservation. I take issue with being lumped into the category of an asshole because I like to eat the fish I catch. If you drive a full day to go saltwater fishing and then only C&R, good for you. Keep doing you. Just don’t expect me to do the same. You’re all starting to sound like a bunch vegan evangelical elitist. “Do it my way or be shunned”. To that I say “fuck off”. I’ll keep eating my fish and deer. Take it up with TPWD if you don’t like it.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

TexasSightcaster said:


> Take that up with TPWD. Like I said, no one is going to shame me into C&R only fishing. I only take what I’m allowed and what I know I’ll consume. I have zero guilt about it because I’m not doing it every weekend. I’m lucky if I get to go down once a month, and then I’m lucky to even catch a few keepers, so yea when I do catch a limit I’m eating good.
> As for the deer hunting reference, it’s pretty obvious to anyone you can’t C&R a deer. But you do have the option of passing on them which is the same damn thing. I only shoot what I’m bringing home for food and I don’t let it go to waste. Hunters and fisherman are this nations conservationist. Our money goes directly to funding the conservation of the resources we enjoy. Taking fish is part of conservation. I take issue with being lumped into the category of an asshole because I like to eat the fish I catch. If you drive a full day to go saltwater fishing and then only C&R, good for you. Keep doing you. Just don’t expect me to do the same. You’re all starting to sound like a bunch vegan evangelical elitist. “Do it my way or be shunned”. To that I say “fuck off”. I’ll keep eating my fish and deer. Take it up with TPWD if you don’t like it.


Wow one extreme to the other...no one is shaming you for keeping some fish.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> Well this thread settles it... I’m goin’ to get the gill nets out and get my freezers good and full before these clowns catch’em all!


Smart ass! =)


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2020)

commtrd said:


> Smart ass! =)


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

commtrd said:


> Having seen way too many "rodeos" at Rockport / Aransas Pass over the years and the resultant massive redfish kills, it frankly makes me sick to see these assholes come here and rape the resources. A couple fish here and there to eat fresh yeah that's OK. But like in that picture, clearly is just nonsense. And it is true that the state does need to revise the limit in the worst way. No doubt about that. But even better would be sportsmen who took it on themselves to exercise self-restraint in what they keep. Unfortunately, south Texas salt water fishermen seem to have no qualms with meat-hauling and guess what every last one of them will say? "Hey man, just keeping the lawful limits. Go fuck yourself". Yep that is what you're going to hear from those ass-hats. So, all you guys from the hill country come on down, get your limits, but don't start the belly-achin' when yall come over here and go back home with no fish. Cause yall killed all of 'em already. Of course in addition to all the old regulars who go every single weekend with the express intent to kill every single friggin fish they can legally stuff in a box. Like the guy who worked at Valero, who would go every Sat and Sun, over to the Klondike, with his kid, and between them catch 8 to 10 limits of reds each day, in between taking them back over to Gregory to drop off and go right back out to soak bait on the bottom, with a bunch of lines out from nasty old bait casters, and just absolutely rape the area. That is the mentality of south Texas salt water fishermen. Except for the guys who fly fish. So seeing pictures like the one with the asswipe having all those fish slung over the shoulder, that crap is REALLY UNIMPRESSIVE.





Smackdaddy53 said:


> One day we will realize the regulations were bullshit based on another money making scheme like everything else and we should have all been more conservative. There’s nothing wrong with eating some fish but some people make an ass out if themselves when they do it. Don’t get butthurt when people don’t like social media photos of meat hauls from guys fishing for likes...and for the “poor guides are just trying to make a living” crowd...pull your heads out of your ass and think about that a little harder. If fishing is their livelihood then why wouldn’t they be the BIGGEST proponent for conservation instead of meat hauling and killing every big sow trout that hits the deck no matter if it’s legal or not? This is coming from a guy that has more guides for fishing buddies than not.


Are all the guys complaining about keeping limits from Texas? This is one of the reasons it is so difficult for everyone to be on the same page on an internet forum. Its only natural for guys to see their own circumstances and apply it to every situation. It is starting to seem to me that Texas has some major fishing culture issues. Between @Smackdaddy claiming that every sow trout caught there is kept and killed or that every tourney is full of tail clipping cheaters or @commtrd pointing out the rape and pillage of his waters natural resources it is kinda clear there are some issues (that or you two are crazy). I live in FL where our limits, in general, are very reasonable and usually rest on the fairly conservative side. Here in NE FL, where I live, we have a great fishing culture. Our guides and fisherman, for the most part, always promote the release of big mama trout and the like. Our tournament scene is clean and the only real cheater of the decade was caught and dealt with (he basically stole $1500 from me btw). Sure we have some ass hats around but for the most part we are good. I sure hope Texas figures out its cultural issues because it sure sounds shitty over there!

Also I see a lot of you guys hating on social media and although I dont subscribe or belong to any of that crap I do concede that it probably leads to more ppl keeping fish to show off. Social media is a rampant disease and I am empathetic for those who rely on it to boost their self esteem. I truly feel sorry for people who are addicted to it and their smartphones. I switched from a smartphone to a flip phone last year and can honestly say I am happier because of it. Make the switch people!

In the end we need to realize that everyones circumstances are different and respect that.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

There definitely is a cultural problem with TX salt water fishermen. The only gauge of a successful trip is whether the cooler got stuffed full or not. Overall FL guys are far more sophisticated and protective of their fishery. Sure there are some that are deviant, but not like TX. Which seems strange, as many of these same guys are deer hunters and always talk about passing on a little 6-point and dont even take a deer that season. Yet they will go fishing and just do everything they can to vacuum clean every damned thing they can stuff in the box. Once talked with a guide (was the glasser in our surfboard shop) who actually quit guiding in Port Isabel due to all the croaker soakers killing every darn trout 15" or bigger. Basically cleaned out the lower Laguna. 

Keeping a few now and then is not the problem. Problem is all the psychopathic fish murderers including guides who advertise with pictures of 4 limits of both trout and reds hung on nails and these guides do this every day they can. Think that doesn't take a toll on the fishery? There is not enough marsh in TX to support ecosystem that will replenish fast enough to keep up with the fishing pressure. There should be a limit of 1 redfish and 2 trout and 1 flounder per day. That is enough to make a good dinner. Sad to say a change in attitude on a huge scale would only come thru regulatory enforcement.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

TexasSightcaster said:


> Take that up with TPWD. Like I said, no one is going to shame me into C&R only fishing. I only take what I’m allowed and what I know I’ll consume. I have zero guilt about it because I’m not doing it every weekend. I’m lucky if I get to go down once a month, and then I’m lucky to even catch a few keepers, so yea when I do catch a limit I’m eating good.
> As for the deer hunting reference, it’s pretty obvious to anyone you can’t C&R a deer. But you do have the option of passing on them which is the same damn thing. I only shoot what I’m bringing home for food and I don’t let it go to waste. Hunters and fisherman are this nations conservationist. Our money goes directly to funding the conservation of the resources we enjoy. Taking fish is part of conservation. I take issue with being lumped into the category of an asshole because I like to eat the fish I catch. If you drive a full day to go saltwater fishing and then only C&R, good for you. Keep doing you. Just don’t expect me to do the same. You’re all starting to sound like a bunch vegan evangelical elitist. “Do it my way or be shunned”. To that I say “fuck off”. I’ll keep eating my fish and deer. Take it up with TPWD if you don’t like it.


Should prolly go back over and hang with 2cool.
All those guys there are just like that. There is no sport in it whatsoever. Only meat-haul. TPWD is not gonna do anything about the limits, and assholes are gonna come down and meat-haul. Just the way it is. Yall should just use dynamite so you can get your limit in 2 minutes and go back where you came from. At least then maybe TPWD would wake up and do something.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Naw, most of the kill them all folks are on Dos Frios now. 2 cool ran off a big chunk of the let’s max out on the meat haul 250-300 days a year crowd. Those guys must be putting milk on their trout flakes and making flounder gelato.

TP&W is getting more conservative on their management...and catching holy hell for it. It might be great to keep 50 fish every trip, but that’s just not sustainable. I’d fish if it was all catch and release, but it’s not there yet either.

Have conservation minded limits, good enforcement, and then don’t give people a bunch of crap for keeping legal fish, that’s my take. YMMV.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

commtrd said:


> Should prolly go back over and hang with 2cool.
> All those guys there are just like that. There is no sport in it whatsoever. Only meat-haul. TPWD is not gonna do anything about the limits, and assholes are gonna come down and meat-haul. Just the way it is. Yall should just use dynamite so you can get your limit in 2 minutes and go back where you came from. At least then maybe TPWD would wake up and do something.


IF what @TexasSightcaster is guilty of is keeping a limit of fish once a month I find it hard to judge him negatively for that. 

If your fishery is suffering so much then why isnt TX doing anything about it? Considering that licensing is one, if not the biggest, contributor to the budget of the wildlife department I find it difficult to believe they would intentionally avoid addressing a steep decline in fish populations. Interested to hear the theories.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

TexasSightcaster said:


> Take that up with TPWD. Like I said, no one is going to shame me into C&R only fishing. I only take what I’m allowed and what I know I’ll consume. I have zero guilt about it because I’m not doing it every weekend. I’m lucky if I get to go down once a month, and then I’m lucky to even catch a few keepers, so yea when I do catch a limit I’m eating good.
> As for the deer hunting reference, it’s pretty obvious to anyone you can’t C&R a deer. But you do have the option of passing on them which is the same damn thing. I only shoot what I’m bringing home for food and I don’t let it go to waste. Hunters and fisherman are this nations conservationist. Our money goes directly to funding the conservation of the resources we enjoy. Taking fish is part of conservation. I take issue with being lumped into the category of an asshole because I like to eat the fish I catch. If you drive a full day to go saltwater fishing and then only C&R, good for you. Keep doing you. Just don’t expect me to do the same. You’re all starting to sound like a bunch vegan evangelical elitist. “Do it my way or be shunned”. To that I say “fuck off”. I’ll keep eating my fish and deer. Take it up with TPWD if you don’t like it.


If sitting in a blind, looking at a feeder, and not shooting a deer was anything close to sight casting fish with a fly rod and then letting it swim away, I may be more interested in “hunting”. But then again if you think that sitting in a blind while looking at a feeder is “hunting” I can see where we won’t ever agree. Oh and go ahead and take your bag limit of deer because there are too many of them to sustain themselves without the corn being feed to them...you know, since you are a conservationist and all...


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

karstopo said:


> Naw, most of the kill them all folks are on Dos Frios now. 2 cool ran off a big chunk of the let’s max out on the meat haul 250-300 days a year crowd. Those guys must be putting milk on their trout flakes and making flounder gelato.
> 
> TP&W is getting more conservative on their management...and catching holy hell for it. It might be great to keep 50 fish every trip, but that’s just not sustainable. I’d fish if it was all catch and release, but it’s not there yet either.
> 
> Have conservation minded limits, good enforcement, and then don’t give people a bunch of crap for keeping legal fish, that’s my take. YMMV.


What are the limits for redfish and trout in TX? Here in NE FL its 2 redfish and 5 trout per day.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

3 redfish, 20-28” 5 trout 15-25” only one over 25” and counts towards the 5.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Surffshr said:


> If sitting in a blind, looking at a feeder, and not shooting a deer was anything close to sight casting fish with a fly rod and then letting it swim away, I may be more interested in “hunting”. But then again if you think that sitting in a blind while looking at a feeder is “hunting” I can see where we won’t ever agree. Oh and go ahead and take your bag limit of deer because there are too many of them to sustain themselves without the corn being feed to them...you know, since you are a conservationist and all...


IDK man, deer hunting is really fun. I hunt fair chase deer on public land with bow and arrow and ill tell you that there is no rush like the one that comes from drawing an arrow back on a big buck deep in a FL swamp. Somewhere between the months of scouting and years of learning the habits of big bucks one just becomes addicted.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

karstopo said:


> 3 redfish, 20-28” 5 trout 15-25” only one over 25” and counts towards the 5.


Without knowing the particulars of the the fishery that does not seem unreasonable to me. In LA you can keep 6 reds (one oversize) and I think like 100 trout. Now that seems excessive lol!


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

karstopo said:


> 3 redfish, 20-28” 5 trout 15-25” only one over 25” and counts towards the 5.


our slot is 18" - 27" for reds and 15" - 20" for trout. You can keep one over 20" (part of your 5). A simple and effective first step for yall would be to decrease from 25" to 20" for trout IMO.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Big Fish said:


> IF what @TexasSightcaster is guilty of is keeping a limit of fish once a month I find it hard to judge him negatively for that.
> 
> If your fishery is suffering so much then why isnt TX doing anything about it? Considering that licensing is one, if not the biggest, contributor to the budget of the wildlife department I find it difficult to believe they would intentionally avoid addressing a steep decline in fish populations. Interested to hear the theories.


Texas is addressing it. Lowered the trout from 10-5 on the upper coast recently. Had previously lowered it to 5 lower and mid coast. Redfish has been at 3 for long time. Redfish appear to be doing well. Flounder, not so much. Proposal with TP&W is to close any retention during fall run, beginning 2020. Southern flounder, different than the gulf flounder more common in Florida, make a big run to the gulf in the fall with cooler weather setting in. Thousands of fishermen line the passes and get easy pickings during the run. Likely gigging is hurting the flounder more than realized. Guides are running 2 trips a night smoking dozens of fish most every night. But, shutting down the run will certainly help.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I don’t think I’m being overly nuanced in my descriptions, but I did not say fair chase. Also, would you get the same rush if you drew down on a trophy buck and did not shoot? How we got here was the comparison of passing on a deer being equivalent to catch and release of a fish.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Texas Parks and Wildlife has been doing research using a standardized methodology on inshore game fish for longer than any other state. 

Recently, TP&W has seemed to shift from managing the resource for maximum sustainable yield of fish flesh to a more conservative stance that builds in some cushion should something adverse come along like a drought, red tide, flood, pollution, freeze kill, etc. 

That change has a big number of fishermen used to the old ways raising holy hell. I’m,and many others, are on the side of the conservative approach and have duked it out with the others on the local forums. It’s been interesting.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Btw, there is no legal commercial fishing for wild redfish or speckled trout in Texas. There is very limited commercial fishing for flounder. Black drum can also be caught by commercial fishermen.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Surffshr said:


> I don’t think I’m being overly nuanced in my descriptions, but I did not say fair chase. Also, would you get the same rush if you drew down on a trophy buck and did not shoot? How we got here was the comparison of passing on a deer being equivalent to catch and release of a fish.


I definitely get more of a rush having deer come in on me that I am not going to shoot than catching most fish. That being said, though, I get more of a rush these days putting friends on fish than I do catching them myself (unless its a true trophy or if I am in a tournament). How many times can one catch a 17" trout or a 30" redfish and still be truly excited? Deer just amplify everything for me due to their far and away superior intelligence and wariness vs fish. A true challenge that is unique to every hunt. Perhaps in many years I will not get excited when passing on a deer but for now I still get that rush every time any deer comes in on me.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

karstopo said:


> Texas Parks and Wildlife has been doing research using a standardized methodology on inshore game fish for longer than any other state.
> 
> Recently, TP&W has seemed to shift from managing the resource for maximum sustainable yield of fish flesh to a more conservative stance that builds in some cushion should something adverse come along like a drought, red tide, flood, pollution, freeze kill, etc.
> 
> That change has a big number of fishermen used to the old ways raising holy hell. I’m,and many others, are on the side of the conservative approach and have duked it out with the others on the local forums. It’s been interesting.


Seems like TX is trying to get its shit together. Hopefully its a sign of good times ahead. In the end all us fisherman want the same thing, good fishing in beautiful places. All the division caused by inflammatory language and name calling does nothing but weaken fisherman as a whole while empowering those who would like to see fishing banned all together.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Interesting thread. I'm pretty strictly a fly guy and only keep a few for son and in the past, friends. The exception was when ice fishing in the Black Hills for yellow perch, pike, and lake trout when I lived there. Germany considers catch and release inhumane and it is banned from what I understand. Personal fishing is for consumption only. I'm sure that philosophy has spurred some lively debate, inflicting pain for pleasure vs. for substinance.

Species enters into it for sure. A picture of a guy with a cooler full of black sea bass doesn't illicit the same reaction as reds, trout, or snappers.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

eightwt said:


> I Germany considers catch and release inhumane and it is banned from what I understand. Personal fishing is for consumption only. I'm sure that philosophy has spurred some lively debate, inflicting pain for pleasure vs. for substinance.


Now that is some scary stuff. I couldnt imagine a world where we were not allowed to fish for fun. Just another reason why fisherman need to stick together, otherwise I am afraid that the environmentalists/city slickers will just one day ban fishing all together.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

I’m good with people keeping fish, as long as the science indicates there’s enough. Shouldn’t the goal be fish to catch and enjoy, one way or another, for today and into the future. 

Some of the old school keep ‘em all crowd tried to make a case that lowering limits for recreational fishermen was going impoverish people by not letting them now feed their families, you know with trout going from 10 to 5 per day. This from folks with 60-70k boats and 300+ dollar reels, plopping down $100’s on bait, fuel and lures every trip. Anyone with a brain understands that if one did the math of what it actually takes in dollars to get a pound of fish, that trout fillet is going to be mighty pricy.


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## TexasSightcaster (Apr 4, 2019)

Big Fish said:


> IF what @TexasSightcaster is guilty of is keeping a limit of fish once a month I find it hard to judge him negatively for that.
> 
> If your fishery is suffering so much then why isnt TX doing anything about it? Considering that licensing is one, if not the biggest, contributor to the budget of the wildlife department I find it difficult to believe they would intentionally avoid addressing a steep decline in fish populations. Interested to hear the theories.


I wish I was good enough of a fisherman to get limits each trip. I usually manage a limit of reds but never trout or flounder. In fact, I’ve only caught 1 keeper flounder in my entire life.
People will tell you that our fisheries are crap, but in reality they’re not. A recent TPWD study actually found that redfish and trout populations are at a 40-plus-year record level (source provided below). Sadly that’s not the case for flounder. The flounder population is more directly impacted by the warmer winters which negatively effect their spawn. So the issues we’re having are related to Mother Nature and not fisherman. All in all, we have a well managed fishery. Sure, we have our share of idiots who don’t believe rules apply to them and take home more fish than legally allowed. However, I don’t agree with the generalized statements about our resources are being raped. It’s just drama to keep the forum replies going. The sky is falling, the earth is melting, and there’s chemtrails in the sky!!! 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...tems-shows-most-fish-species-are-13413260.php


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## TexasSightcaster (Apr 4, 2019)

Surffshr said:


> If sitting in a blind, looking at a feeder, and not shooting a deer was anything close to sight casting fish with a fly rod and then letting it swim away, I may be more interested in “hunting”. But then again if you think that sitting in a blind while looking at a feeder is “hunting” I can see where we won’t ever agree. Oh and go ahead and take your bag limit of deer because there are too many of them to sustain themselves without the corn being feed to them...you know, since you are a conservationist and all...


As I’ve repeatedly stated, I only take what I eat. One deer is enough to last me all year. Secondly, the act of hunting is not what makes someone a conservationist, it’s knowing what to shoot and what to pass on. I’ve passed on plenty “trophy” bucks and opted for the smaller spike instead because that’s conserving a better bloodline. Yes I hunt from a tree stand overlooking a feeder. You don’t call that hunting, and that’s fine with me. You can hike into the woods with a recurve bow and haul your game out in packs if that’s your thing. I don’t have the time, energy, desire, or place to do that. I have limited acreage to hunt on, so I’m going to hunt the way that suits me.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

BTW there really are chemtrails sprayed every day somewhere in the USA. And worldwide. Look up in the sky especially after cold fronts but any time when the isobars over a region are far apart (light winds) and will see chemtrails. 

Anyway back to the fishing quality. Having been fishing in TX for the last 56 years, I promise that the fishing quality is no where near what it was all those years ago. It was crazy good back then. So something changed.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Never hunted deer so cant speak to that. Seems to be plenty of deer every time I go to New Braunfels they are everywhere.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Fish said:


> Are all the guys complaining about keeping limits from Texas? This is one of the reasons it is so difficult for everyone to be on the same page on an internet forum. Its only natural for guys to see their own circumstances and apply it to every situation. It is starting to seem to me that Texas has some major fishing culture issues. Between @Smackdaddy claiming that every sow trout caught there is kept and killed or that every tourney is full of tail clipping cheaters or @commtrd pointing out the rape and pillage of his waters natural resources it is kinda clear there are some issues (that or you two are crazy). I live in FL where our limits, in general, are very reasonable and usually rest on the fairly conservative side. Here in NE FL, where I live, we have a great fishing culture. Our guides and fisherman, for the most part, always promote the release of big mama trout and the like. Our tournament scene is clean and the only real cheater of the decade was caught and dealt with (he basically stole $1500 from me btw). Sure we have some ass hats around but for the most part we are good. I sure hope Texas figures out its cultural issues because it sure sounds shitty over there!
> 
> Also I see a lot of you guys hating on social media and although I dont subscribe or belong to any of that crap I do concede that it probably leads to more ppl keeping fish to show off. Social media is a rampant disease and I am empathetic for those who rely on it to boost their self esteem. I truly feel sorry for people who are addicted to it and their smartphones. I switched from a smartphone to a flip phone last year and can honestly say I am happier because of it. Make the switch people!
> 
> In the end we need to realize that everyones circumstances are different and respect that.


Yeah I’m just crazy and don’t know what I’m talking about.
Unlike some folks that believe everything they read from TPWD I understand that the focus is way off when it comes to our fishery management here. Look at the CCA STAR tournament a little harder. Minimum 8# on trout and you have to kill it to weigh it in. Retarded! 
I’m not going to elaborate because it does no good but I see guys on this thread from Texas reciting what they read about the flounder population and it makes me laugh. Just because there was a recent article about flounder regulations makes it all true?
Not once did I state that there is anything wrong with keeping a few fish but people seem to lack reading comprehension skills when they have their mind set on something, it’s kind of like selective hearing.
I’ll leave you guys with some ancient knowledge...

”...as the number of fishermen increase the amount of water remains the same.” - Mac


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Bottom line, whatever one believes is going on with the various fish, limits need to set to ensure fish for the future. People aren’t generally good at setting limits themselves, so the State has to step in and do it. Conservative limits mean more fish to breed and more to catch. 

People can bitch about TP&W and how they determine what’s going on with the fish, but why not err on the side of caution and set the limit too low rather than too high? 

You can’t legally kill every deer you want, or duck, or turkey, why should fish be any different? 

No one that’s serious is saying you can’t fish all you want and catch 100 fish if that’s what you want, but all that’s being done is knocking down the amount you can retain. Who the f*ck is going to starve because they can no longer keep 10 trout? 

These m-f*ckers act like the water is a personal grocery store and nothing more than that. Catch a 1,000, but throw 99% of them back in. If someone fishes just to get some groceries (very expensive groceries considering what 99% of people have in gear and boats), then that person has it all wrong, those fish belong to all of the people and you just can’t help yourself to what you want. Go buy some land and farm some fish or something and then help yourself to those. 

All these people complaining about limits being too low don’t get fishing at all. If all that fish is to you is a piece of meat, then that’s pretty pathetic.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

karstopo said:


> Bottom line, whatever one believes is going on with the various fish, limits need to set to ensure fish for the future. People aren’t generally good at setting limits themselves, so the State has to step in and do it. Conservative limits mean more fish to breed and more to catch.
> 
> People can bitch about TP&W and how they determine what’s going on with the fish, but why not err on the side of caution and set the limit too low rather than too high?
> 
> ...


Wow Stopo, that's as fired up as I've ever seen you. How do I like this twice? You'd get a reddie from the yahoo's on that other forum...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

jay.bush1434 said:


> Wow Stopo, that's as fired up as I've ever seen you. How do I like this twice? You'd get a reddie from the yahoo's on that other forum...


That’s how I feel too and I grew up meat hauling and a few years ago finally wised up. I have a 5 year old son and I want him to be able to enjoy the resource as he grows up and hopefully his son can do the same. I’ll sure as hell teach him how to catch, fillet and cook fish but do so selectively unlike the 50 year old “gimmedats” that should know better and think they are entitled to a full limit three times a month just to end up tossing out a bunch of freezer burned fillets a few years later because they were too drunk to label their ziplocs after hacking up a pile of fish over a year before and have been stockpiling fish like they are depending on it for survival.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Yeah I’m just crazy and don’t know what I’m talking about.


Ya, thats just not what I was saying. Sure I threw in that part as a joke to lighten the overall mood of the post but I was actually trying to illustrate the differences between local fisheries and how it shapes our minds. Seems to me that TX has a really shit culture right now while FL has a fairly good one. Try not calling out someones "reading comprehension" when you are taking my statements out of context. 

About CCA star, we have that too here in FL. Our version of CCA star is all catch and release (except for buckets of trash lol) and winners are determined by photos. It seems crazy that CCA would have a dead fish weigh in for one of their events considering that almost all modern tournaments are based off a catch and release only format. Another example of TX and its poor (perhaps behind the times?) fishing culture. I really hope you guys figure it out down there soon as it must be a struggle hating your fellow fisherman so very much.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Fish said:


> Ya, thats just not what I was saying. Sure I threw in that part as a joke to lighten the overall mood of the post but I was actually trying to illustrate the differences between local fisheries and how it shapes our minds. Seems to me that TX has a really shit culture right now while FL has a fairly good one. Try not calling out someones "reading comprehension" when you are taking my statements out of context.
> 
> About CCA star, we have that too here in FL. Our version of CCA star is all catch and release (except for buckets of trash lol) and winners are determined by photos. It seems crazy that CCA would have a dead fish weigh in for one of their events considering that almost all modern tournaments are based off a catch and release only format. Another example of TX and its poor (perhaps behind the times?) fishing culture. I really hope you guys figure it out down there soon as it must be a struggle hating your fellow fisherman so very much.


Myself and many others have been preaching about it for years, emailing TPWD, CCA STAR, posting about the massive influx of kill tournaments that congest the water ways and give nothing back, etc. 
Even live weigh in tournaments are ignorant if you think about how they go about releasing beat up fish in the closest boat ramp or marina many miles from where the fish were caught and then dolphins end up with an easy snack. I just wish inshore tournament fishing and fishing in general was treated like largemouth bass are. There are a lot of really good people here but also a ton of total douchebags that lack respect for the resource and fellow fishermen. You’d shit a brick if you knew how many times I have been nearly run over while wading, been burned by boats while poling, watched these retards buzzing every inch of flats and shorelines shooting videos and getting drunk just to keep going and never stop to fish. It’s a damn shame because in the 80’s I remember fishing in the same areas on the weekends in our 12 foot flat bottom and maybe seeing 4-5 boats the whole trip. Now it’s flooded with people running around with no clue where the hell they are going and no flats etiquette whatsoever. Back in the day you’d get shot for some of the shit these people pull and when you wave them down they either say “we’re new to the area” or flip you off and cuss you out telling you how they “have been burning shorelines for years” or “I’m a guide”. It’s sad when grown men get on the water and act like children.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Big Fish said:


> our slot is 18" - 27" for reds and 15" - 20" for trout. You can keep one over 20" (part of your 5). A simple and effective first step for yall would be to decrease from 25" to 20" for trout IMO.


Better check the regs again. New statewide trout rules effective Feb. 1 are 15 inches to 19 inches. Only one allowable 19-inch-plus per boat. New management zones have different bag limits but the East Central zone is down to 2 fish allowed. Redfish bag limits were also modified in the last year.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Myself and many others have been preaching about it for years, emailing TPWD, CCA STAR, posting about the massive influx of kill tournaments that congest the water ways and give nothing back, etc.
> Even live weigh in tournaments are ignorant if you think about how they go about releasing beat up fish in the closest boat ramp or marina many miles from where the fish were caught and then dolphins end up with an easy snack. I just wish inshore tournament fishing and fishing in general was treated like largemouth bass are. There are a lot of really good people here but also a ton of total douchebags that lack respect for the resource and fellow fishermen. You’d shit a brick if you knew how many times I have been nearly run over while wading, been burned by boats while poling, watched these retards buzzing every inch of flats and shorelines shooting videos and getting drunk just to keep going and never stop to fish. It’s a damn shame because in the 80’s I remember fishing in the same areas on the weekends in our 12 foot flat bottom and maybe seeing 4-5 boats the whole trip. Now it’s flooded with people running around with no clue where the hell they are going and no flats etiquette whatsoever. Back in the day you’d get shot for some of the shit these people pull and when you wave them down they either say “we’re new to the area” or flip you off and cuss you out telling you how they “have been burning shorelines for years” or “I’m a guide”. It’s sad when grown men get on the water and act like children.


Ya man, sounds like it sucks fishing out there. No respect for your fellow fisherman sounds like a real problem for yall. Were lucky that we dont really have that issue over here. As far as catch and release tourneys, I gotta disagree with your sentiment on those. Do all the fish make it after release? Probably not, but in general I think most definitely make it. Proper fish care and robust species really increase the odds. Sure trout are not the most robust but redfish and flounder can take a lot before they go belly up. 

I have definitely participated in some "burning" as one of my best buds has a tower boat with a jet foot and I can tell you that redfish dont really care about it. We can run by a school and then turn around and catch them right where we saw them. They get way more spooked by a trolling motor than they do by an outboard. I believe they are conditioned to think that outboards are safe while trolling motors are danger. 

I know we have gone down this tournament train before and its clear that we dont really agree on the subject so perhaps we should just agree to disagree?


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Zika said:


> Better check the regs again. New statewide trout rules effective Feb. 1 are 15 inches to 19 inches. Only one allowable 19-inch-plus per boat. New management zones have different bag limits but the East Central zone is down to 2 fish allowed. Redfish bag limits were also modified in the last year.


Oh snap. I knew they dropped from 6 fish to 5 in NE region but did not catch the 19" change. Good for the 19.1" trout and up! Another example of FL trying to protect the breeders. The trout fishing here in JAX is already incredible and I see its about to just get better. Cool.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Fish said:


> Ya man, sounds like it sucks fishing out there. No respect for your fellow fisherman sounds like a real problem for yall. Were lucky that we dont really have that issue over here. As far as catch and release tourneys, I gotta disagree with your sentiment on those. Do all the fish make it after release? Probably not, but in general I think most definitely make it. Proper fish care and robust species really increase the odds. Sure trout are not the most robust but redfish and flounder can take a lot before they go belly up.
> 
> I have definitely participated in some "burning" as one of my best buds has a tower boat with a jet foot and I can tell you that redfish dont really care about it. We can run by a school and then turn around and catch them right where we saw them. They get way more spooked by a trolling motor than they do by an outboard. I believe they are conditioned to think that outboards are safe while trolling motors are danger.
> 
> I know we have gone down this tournament train before and its clear that we dont really agree on the subject so perhaps we should just agree to disagree?


When you burn schools of redfish you spook them and break them up just to catch a couple and move on. The rest of the day those fish are ruined and as much as it goes on here schools of redfish are almost nonexistent anymore or at least nothing close to what they used to be. That shit is LAZY and you’re damn right I don’t like it, willing to bet 90% of us think it’s disrespectful to go around beating up schools of redfish like you’re more important than everyone else on the water. 
As far as live weigh ins, it’s not about how healthy the fish are when released as much as where they are released. If you burned the gas to catch them you can burn more and release the fish back where they were caught instead of twenty miles away in the nearest marina. Hell, even do like the bass guys and have a weighmaster close and weigh them on the water and immediately release so you aren’t dragging them around in a livewell half the day. 
I’m not being a dick, just being honest.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> When you burn schools of redfish you spook them and break them up just to catch a couple and move on. The rest of the day those fish are ruined and as much as it goes on here schools of redfish are almost nonexistent anymore or at least nothing close to what they used to be. That shit is LAZY and you’re damn right I don’t like it, willing to bet 90% of us think it’s disrespectful to go around beating up schools of redfish like you’re more important than everyone else on the water.
> As far as live weigh ins, it’s not about how healthy the fish are when released as much as where they are released. If you burned the gas to catch them you can burn more and release the fish back where they were caught instead of twenty miles away in the nearest marina. Hell, even do like the bass guys and have a weighmaster close and weigh them on the water and immediately release so you aren’t dragging them around in a livewell half the day.
> I’m not being a dick, just being honest.


I mean you have a loud voice and a bunch of cronies on here but quite frankly you really don't know what your talking about.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Big Fish said:


> I mean you have a loud voice and a bunch of cronies on here but quite frankly you really don't know what your talking about.


Cronies or sportsmen I'm thinking the latter evidently you've never fished in South Florida where there is minimal respect for fellow anglers if you're to lazy to pole to the fish you don't deserve to catch one. Not you specifically big fish just a broad statement.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Fish said:


> I mean you have a loud voice and a bunch of cronies on here but quite frankly you really don't know what your talking about.


Here’s a direct quote from your previous reply:

“I have definitely participated in some "burning" as one of my best buds has a tower boat with a jet foot and I can tell you that redfish dont really care about it. We can run by a school and then turn around and catch them right where we saw them. They get way more spooked by a trolling motor than they do by an outboard. I believe they are conditioned to think that outboards are safe while trolling motors are danger.”

And you’re telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about? You may not participate in this method much but condoning it at all tells me a lot about you. How much actual time do you have poling a skiff? I’ve got quite a bit and I’ve seen first hand how redfish act after a couple of biscuit heads herded them up, turned around and made a few casts at them and moved on to scare the shit out of the next school you run over. They are freaked out, spooky and believe it or not if you knew how many boats are running around doing this it actually causes the fish to change their habits. I see it ALL THE TIME. Nothing is more frustrating than working miles of shoreline on the pole and then seeing a tower boat burning the shorelines, run around in front of you and do this to shortcut and catch a quick redfish for a tournament. Don’t come on here telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about because I sure as hell do. People like you and your buddies take other people and your own kids out and teach them this lazy method of fishing and the rest of us wonder where all these people learn this crap from...You’re damn right I’m going to speak up because when I get out on the water and see this day in and day out it truly makes my blood boil. We had a private message about our sons a while back...Be a sportsman and teach your boys how to catch fish without being lazy. In Texas it is actually illegal to herd or harass fish and this is exactly what burning shorelines on a tower boat, spotting some fish, circling around and casting at them before they bust up. After your boat leaves the fish are spooky as hell, you can’t tell me “it doesn’t bother them”.
I have two huge pet peeves, burning shorelines and killing big trout.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Cronies or sportsmen I'm thinking the latter evidently you've never fished in South Florida where there is minimal respect for fellow anglers if you're to lazy to pole to the fish you don't deserve to catch one. Not you specifically big fish just a broad statement.


Other than ENP I do my best to avoid south FL as it is kinda a yankee hell hole now. I am not surprised to hear there are problems down there.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Big Fish said:


> Other than ENP I do my best to avoid south FL as it is kinda a yankee hell hole now. I am not surprised to hear there are problems down there.


Yes it is I miss the 90s down here it was a good place to grow up but not so much anymore unfortunately.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Here’s a direct quote from your previous reply:
> 
> “I have definitely participated in some "burning" as one of my best buds has a tower boat with a jet foot and I can tell you that redfish dont really care about it. We can run by a school and then turn around and catch them right where we saw them. They get way more spooked by a trolling motor than they do by an outboard. I believe they are conditioned to think that outboards are safe while trolling motors are danger.”
> 
> ...



Ok buddy, settle down. You know, the difference between me and you is that I don't think that everyone has to fish the same way that I do to be a "sportsmen". I don't dog hunt but still respect the guys that do, even if it makes the deer more spooky in my woods. I am just happy that someone is enjoying the great outdoors. I have pet peeves too, among those are "poling only" fishing elitists and forum police but I still consider twats like that "sportsmen" and am truly happy that they are spending time fishing and are teaching it to the next generation. We need more kids fishing. Meanwhile I will be teaching my kids to respect other sportsmen and how to catch fish and how to protect the resource. I am certainly not going to teach them that other fisherman are not entitled to the water just because we don't see eye to eye on how to fish.

Oh, and I still don't think you know what you are talking about. But I still respect you as a sportsmen. In a show called 30 rock two adversaries say that they "hate respect each other. Well I hate respect you.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

I was shocked at East Matagorda bay when I went there on a weekday last December. Lots of boats, lots more than I would have supposed. No one ran over us, but we were tight to some real shallow shell. 

I get as close to reef as I can, seems to keep some of the awful shoreline burners away. 

A couple of years ago, I was out in Salt lake in the BNWR. Someone in a big flats boat was basically running full bore the 1 mile diameter 2’ deep round lake perimeter like 6 or 7 times, maybe 100 yards or a little less off the shoreline. Why would anyone do this? 

Every redfish I saw that day was heading fast for the exit. They wouldn’t even look at a well presented fly, they were all spooked, well before I even got into range. No doubt shoreline burning messes up the fish. That day was but one example, I’ve seen it happen more than the one time.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

karstopo said:


> I was shocked at East Matagorda bay when I went there on a weekday last December. Lots of boats, lots more than I would have supposed. No one ran over us, but we were tight to some real shallow shell.
> 
> I get as close to reef as I can, seems to keep some of the awful shoreline burners away.
> 
> ...


No doubt burning alters fish behavior, just as a trolling motor does or even a poling fly fisherman does. Any fishing pressure is going to change the way a fish reacts to its environment. In my neck of the woods reds are much more afraid of a trolling motor than they are of an outboard. So when I say that burning does not affect them much it is in that context. A direct observation of fishing where I do. I am sure that in TX where burning is a lot more popular than it is here it affects the fish much more than it does here. Fish there equate burning with fishing, unlike they do here.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Where it’s deeper, boat traffic doesn’t seem to have a negative effect here. One of the tidal rivers locally has tons of boats running full power up and down it constantly. River might be 75-100 yards wide or so. Boats can zip by 30 yards away and you can catch fish right after they go by. River has a big deep minimum 12-15’ channel. Even the smaller bayous seem okay with boat traffic as long as they have some depth.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

karstopo said:


> Where it’s deeper, boat traffic doesn’t seem to have a negative effect here. One of the tidal rivers locally has tons of boats running full power up and down it constantly. River might be 75-100 yards wide or so. Boats can zip by 30 yards away and you can catch fish right after they go by. River has a big deep minimum 12-15’ channel. Even the smaller bayous seem okay with boat traffic as long as they have some depth.


Most of our waterways are like this, we dont have many true "flats" around here. Mostly small creeks along the ICW.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

karstopo said:


> I was shocked at East Matagorda bay when I went there on a weekday last December. Lots of boats, lots more than I would have supposed. No one ran over us, but we were tight to some real shallow shell.
> 
> I get as close to reef as I can, seems to keep some of the awful shoreline burners away.
> 
> ...


But we don’t know what we’re talking about and we’re poling skiff elitists for noticing redfish and all fish are absolutely not used to being run over. We used to have huge schools of hundreds of redfish and now a man is lucky to see 6-8 working a shoreline. I did get very far from average boat traffic and find two big schools of maybe 100 or so redfish but that was about three years ago. Dudes blasting music herding redfish with their 300-400hp outboards have ruined that. Can a poling skiff, aluminum jon boat or other boat spook fish? Yes they can but you don’t see that here nearly as much as the flatbilled wannabe tournament fishermen in their big flats boats, airboats and tower boats. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and BigFish might be in a part of the state that fish are somehow immune to being run over but it still gets to me that a man would think that’s an acceptable method to fish and respectful to the rest of the people they are supposed to share the water with.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Fish said:


> Most of our waterways are like this, we dont have many true "flats" around here. Mostly small creeks along the ICW.


Then what’s the jet foot burn boat for? You just stated you have burned fish on that rig.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Then what’s the jet foot burn boat for? You just stated you have burned fish on that rig.


Yes. Thats what its for. We run the edge of the ICW mostly, just along the bank vs in the channel. Also nice once we fish a creek and can run out of it on plane at low tide vs idling out.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

ICW, boats don’t bother fish, in my experience anyway. Big trawlers and barges going by might even help things.


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