# Departure from the typical skinny skiff?



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Sorry but this may be long winded. Been more or less gone for a while and now I'm back and gearing up for the next project. While most of this site is focused on hardcore skinny water fishing, The site is generally dedicated to doing more with less, and that is what I will be doing. My current skiff, the Plytanic, isn't meeting our needs and it's almost time to chop her up and move on. 

I want a jack of all trades, master of none! Something that can get into 6-8" of water for some flats fishing, run nearshore and hit a reef, go camping down the river, do some family cruising with 4 on board in relative comfort, and maybe one day do a group crossing to Bimini or Tortugas. Naturally this all will take sacrifices in every aspect, but I hope to limit them as much as possible. Not sure just yet if I'll build from scratch again or modify an existing hull, but my limits will be around 16ft.

So, I'm wondering what options you guys would include in your boats, outside of the basic hull design? Keeping in mind recent tragedies I'll naturally include some basic safety stuff like plenty of buoyancy foam, bilge pumps, and most likely a self bailing deck...... but what else would you guys pack into a small boat? Any must haves?


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Can't comment on anything within your 16' range but I did have a chance to fish an older 18' Pathfinder today and was very impressed. It was a no frills basic hull but it handled everything today we put it up against. We were able to fish the shallows of the northern lagoon early morning then run several miles offshore and 15 or so miles beachside. We did have great conditions but I would say it fits the bill for a solid utility skiff..


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Is there a panga or panga style boat in 16'?

It's going to be hard to accomplish all that. Here's me shameless plug (which I try not to pull this card a lot)

My boat, a 16' Action craft could do all you are asking reasonably. Probably better than any other 16' skiff/boat out there (unless there is a panga 16' which I don't know about)

I would put it up to any other 16' boat in foul weather and seas. It's very stable and has an 84" beam. More room for camping and people. 

If you want the 8" of draft and can sacrifice speed, pair it with an f70 (base motor on the boats now). Also are options of a kevlar 1622 that you can find used or a new 1600 that you could have built kevlar. 

its not the prettiest or fanciest boat out there but in your 16' or under criteria I find it hard to find a better option.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks guys, but I may not have been clear, I'm not asking about the hull, I'm asking about the options within the hull. There are tons of hulls that will do what I want, some better then others. I'm wondering what must have options you guys would look for, and what options aren't a must have, but you would like anyway if it could fit.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Sounds like something around 800lbs,  16-18ft long  7' beam and about 15deg of dead rise.  

If you wanted to go the cheapest route possible then pick up an old Aquasport 17 and restore it.   

The 17's could be poled downwind in about 9-12" but they are much better suited for a trolling motor.  I have never actually seen one being poled, but it should be possible.  They are about like a panga only a little wider.

Perhaps the best feature is how freaking sweet a restored 1970's Aquasport looks.  They are so classic  

One that could use a restore
http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/5149941791.html

Here is a restored one
http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/5125546645.html

Another typical 17.  
http://sarasota.craigslist.org/boa/5152647012.html


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Going on your description, I would...

Be redundant with everything.

After the built in fuel tank, I would devise a way to quick connect a jerry can for extra fuel.

Have an extra slot for additional batteries.

Have a quick way to add an additional bilge pump.

Have a kicker bracket mounted with a kicker that can push the boat reasonably when you go offshore.

Have a marine radio with a cord that can be mounted on your push pole so you can get the antennae 
signal significantly higher off the horizon plane.

Not necessary:
Coolers
Rod holders
You get the idea

That small going across the open water as you mention is not something I would be willing to attempt without many other boaters in a group, solo is just asking for trouble.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> Going on your description, I would...
> 
> Be redundant with everything.
> 
> ...


What dicknut said and self bailing. Forget[ch127754][ch128676] 16' for what you want to do with the boat. Think 18 minimum


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Permit - the Preview Button is second on the right. Unless ur dissing my buddy DuckNut....


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

I am still a minimalist, but based on my experience with my skiff, ample, redundant, watertight storage is the feature that makes for the best all-around hull. This gives you the flexibility to dress it up or down to suit your needs and it gives you a lot of reserve buoyancy. I would also want a 17" transom and 20" sides. This will increase your windage, but give you a bit more security. I can't fault the idea of a CB. A built in anchor pin hole in the tip of the bow would be sexy. A convertible Bimini top would be really nice also. Bow and stern anchor lockers to keep that stuff out of the way, yet ready to use.

The only problem is that there is only so much room in a 16' hull. Due to that, I honestly think that 16' limits how all-around it could be. I wouldn't want less than a 20' hull although I know guys have done what you describe in Gheenoes and jet skis.

Nate


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

I also concur what Dicknut said


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Lol. Dicknut.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

> I also concur what Dicknut said


And here I though you were my friend AH2.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

one of the old 17 boston whaler montauks, with a 50 hp yamaha.

If you are heading into the ocean in this size boat, it would be the one. Or the Hobie power skiff, but I always say that.

One thing to look at is where the flotation is. The more RIB like, the better. It's my opinion that high sides make it all the easier to flip, once the boat is filled up like a bath tub.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Need to lose the micro-mentality fc. Family has grown, interests are moving on.
Need at minimum a bay boat. Not just for comfort but for all the stuff a family carries.
If you are planning on open ocean, minimum 18 footer
Self bailing, primary engine and kicker, tons of storage., livewell,
communications, depthfinder, trolling motor, bimini top, swim ladder or platform.
Dual fuel tanks, dual batteries...but that's just from my own experiences.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Like a broken record, I agree with Brett!  Getcha two boats, one biggun for the family and buy/build a 1/2 man flats fishing rig that may or may not need a trailer.


Remember the whole back & forth years ago about the motto for microskiff? Doing more with less! 



I think a rebuild of an 80's 18' privateer or 17' Boston Whaler with a tiller would be the bomb diggity! Put a 50-70hp tiller with steering assist.  :-? Yeah, I really do like that idea!


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

> Sorry but this may be long winded. Been more or less gone for a while and now I'm back and gearing up for the next project. While most of this site is focused on hardcore skinny water fishing, The site is generally dedicated to doing more with less, and that is what I will be doing. My current skiff, the Plytanic, isn't meeting our needs and it's almost time to chop her up and move on.
> 
> I want a jack of all trades, master of none! Something that can get into 6-8" of water for some flats fishing, run nearshore and hit a reef, go camping down the river, do some family cruising with 4 on board in relative comfort, and maybe one day do a group crossing to Bimini or Tortugas. Naturally this all will take sacrifices in every aspect, but I hope to limit them as much as possible. Not sure just yet if I'll build from scratch again or modify an existing hull, but my limits will be around 16ft.
> 
> So, I'm wondering what options you guys would include in your boats, outside of the basic hull design? Keeping in mind recent tragedies I'll naturally include some basic safety stuff like plenty of buoyancy foam, bilge pumps, and most likely a self bailing deck...... but what else would you guys pack into a small boat? Any must haves?


VHF radio with decent height antenna, saw an antenna that could be mounted to push pole on here once great idea. Cutrunners water tank also excellent family item. Another guy on here had his Panga setup to camp on, I think this is worth considering in layout. Storage, not just your normal hatches but tilt out boxes and such. Built in coolers to keep deck space as open as possible. 

Careful thought in to seating arrangement and comfort, I think is a must. Think single handed operation in a crowded environment.

Just some of my initial thoughts.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok now we are getting somewhere, lol. 

I'm short on time and will write more in a bit, but I wanted to address one thing!

On this day, the 11th of the month of August, and hence forth there on, the long time ambassador of all things salty and shallow shall no longer be seen as just a common ally! He shall be elevated in our hearts in light of his constant presence as one of the cornerstones of our great society. From this day forth he who has not been named, shall be know as Sir Dicknut!


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

> Like a broken record, I agree with Brett!  Getcha two boats, one biggun for the family and buy/build a 1/2 man flats fishing rig that may or may not need a trailer.
> 
> 
> Remember the whole back & forth years ago about the motto for microskiff? Doing more with less!
> ...


Privateer is a great option, a sea ox would be a great option as well, I've hauled blue crab in both.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> Permit - the Preview Button is second on the right. Unless ur dissing my buddy DuckNut....


Yea I know about the preview button but I kinda like we're it ended up


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Alright, good stuff so far. While I would love to have a 18+ft boat, or 2 different boats. it's not in the cards guys. Even with a removable/swing trailer tongue and parked at a steep angle, I can only squeeze in a 17ft. I appreciate the suggestions and concerns, but I think you guys have the wrong idea of what I am talking about.

Let me describe more in detail what I do or will be doing most of the time with my boat. I will be drifting the flats and using an I-pilot in the rivers around Tampa Bay and areas to the south down to Marco island. An occasional camping trip with the family/friends to shell key or down the peace river when the levels allow. Anchoring over the reefs in the bay or near shore to fish for snapper and grouper. Running the family over to a beach or nice eatery when we feel like just a day out by the water. Fishing the bridges including the skyway on nice days......

Keep in mind this is all the things I do now with the Plytanic, and she has served me well for years. However she has not served me comfortably, so it's time to switch gears a bit.

As far as crossing to bimini or Tortugas......lets just take that off the table. I would only do that as a group with a chase boat, like some guys here used to do back in the day. Like the crossing from Islamorada to Flamingo. I hope the future holds some group activities again.

Most likely I'll be modifying an older bowrider, well more like gutting it, rebuilding it from the stringers up. Comfy ride, handles a chop well, fairly sea worthy, moves well with moderate power, floats pretty skinny (6-9"), and wide enough to add in some creature comforts and seating. I will have to think more on how I will design the interior.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Build a copy of my boat. Ezpz ;D


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

> Build a copy of my boat. Ezpz ;D


Funny thing, I was thinking the same thing just now!

http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/5164667979.html
Your welcome.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

> Keep in mind this is all the things I do now with the Plytanic, and she has served me well for years. However she has not served me comfortably, so it's time to switch gears a bit.


Have you ridden in a Hobie Power Skiff? It would be cool to have one of these boats with tiller or side console motor, bimini top, and "pods" that you could move in and out for your needs. For example, a seating pod, or a livewell pod. Or with no pod you could pitch a little tent. 

For a 500 lb boat (+-), the ride is amazing.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes, I love the hobie's, and have thought about buying one. I actually looked at several but didn't pull the trigger. The main reasons I shy away from them are first they are a little smaller then I want, they are about the same size as my current boat. And more then that, I feel bad destroying one! I would need to break that thing down to a bare hull to do as I wish (seating, livewells, tanks, storage). They are such cool boats I think they are better meant for others.

While I like tillers, I am pretty much over them. Making long runs even with a tiller extension wears on me, so my next skiff will be a center console.

Gramps, that is very close to exactly what I am talking about. Those old boats by Manatee, Bonito, Cobia, Johnson.... are great platforms. Some came like that with the rolled gunnels and some came as bowriders, some wider then others. If I was ready to buy I'd call that guy, but I gotta wait till after the baby comes in October. Those hulls are so plentiful, and usually in such bad shape, that I don't feel bad destroying them. I want to break it down to a shell so I can redo the stringers, foam, chase tubes....the way I want.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

When you do get around to gutting it, make sure it's in a jig.
Needs full support along the keel, strakes and chines to prevent sagging or twisting.
You don't want to install stringers/frames in a wracked or hogged shell.
Guess how I learned that one? :-[ ;D


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

When you start studying hulls, look at some that are on the market today. Then ask the builder how much for the raw hull and nothing more. Might be cheaper than you might expect as the hull is the easiest part to make.

And by all means look hard at the panga styles, I think it would fit you real well...the plytanic was almost there with the hull, just a fancier cap.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Lol Brett, I learned that lesson to during my builds. It's amazing how much work you can save yourself with $10 worth of scrap 2x4s.

Sir Dicknut, sorry I had to, I have considered new hulls, especially the pangas, but even if you can find someone who will sell a blank shell they are usually out of my budget. 

Ultimately I would like to build a 17ft panga style boat, but with the new kid around I can't commit that much money to a new build. So this will be a budget build in a sense. I can find a cheap hull with a decent outboard and trailer cheaper then I can buy them apart. I'll be using marine ply (I know, old school blasphemy right) encapsulated in epoxy again to build it out how I like. Then a few years from now maybe I'll sell it and start on my dream build using some new techniques I'm working on. In truth I want to jump head long into the new design and build from scratch again, but I promised my wife I wouldn't.

That being said she did tell me that when I am done with this rebuild I can make the folding skiff I want for solo trips. So in a way maybe I will end up with 2 boats.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

> Ultimately I would like to build a 17ft panga style boat, but with the new kid around I can't commit that much money to a new build. So this will be a budget build


Did you see my earlier post?  An old 17 aquasport is your boat.  Strip it down to the stringers rig it how you like and run it with a 90.  You can find an old hull for cheap. Check out classic aquasport.com.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> When you do get around to gutting it, make sure it's in a jig.
> Needs full support along the keel, strakes and chines to prevent sagging or twisting.
> You don't want to install stringers/frames in a wracked or hogged shell.
> Guess how I learned that one? :-[ ;D


You learned about it by reading microskiff.com?


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

Maybe the first question would be weight- do you want a 500 lb hull, or a 1000 lb hull? Liner, or linerless? Self draining, or not. This could go from 25 to 100 hp.

Check out the variations around a Privateer 16
http://www.privateerboats.com/1600.htm

One feature that I like is flotation in the rear quarters up to the height of the transom cutout:
http://www.privateerboats.com/images/11-13-06/16ftPrivateer-3.jpg

It's my opinion that this would help to keep the boat from flipping over at the first sign of moisture.

As for comfort, you would need to define to yourself what that means. If it's comfort at anchor, comfort in a following sea, or comfort into the wind and waves, a different hull shape would be best. If it's comfort into the waves, you want a hull that looks closest to a deep v, and all of these boats will work differently depending on the shape and volume. 

I would also be looking for a real glass boat, rather than a chopper gun boat.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

The old aquasports are on my list of consideration, but not at the top. Every guy here at one time or another had an idea in his head that he wanted to see through, a picture of something others may not like or agree with. That's how I came to build all my boats, each better designed then the last.

That being said, lets continue on assuming I have a blank slate in the form of a 16ft boat, with a hull weight of 500-700lbs, powered by a 40-70hp motor similar to the one pictured below:









Time machine I agree with the vertical foam where possible, as well as plenty below deck. Self bailing deck would be on my list as well. I need to design the layout of this boat so it will work ok for my 2 basic scenarios. 99% of the trips will be split between fishing with a buddy or 2, and cruising around calm waters as a family of 4. I'll start compiling a list of my wants and needs.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

Any console you put in the boat make sure it is comfortable to drive standing up.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Absolutely, I'm 6'3" too so it will be a really tall one, maybe with a leaning post behind it.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

I vote for a Pathfinder 22 and just build an awning on the side of the house to store it 

Let me know how it works out for ya!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

If I could do that I wouldn't have ever became a microskiff member. No room on the sides of my house to get a boat past the gate. The garage is the only option.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

Have you ridden in the type of boat in the picture?

It looks to me like it would beat you to death in a chop.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes, in the bow rider form. That's why they were popular back in the day, they ride surprisingly well in a chop.


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

There was a decent looking ~18 ft Aquasport-type boat/trailer on US41 for sale near Mirabay. It looked like a very nice restore. No idea price or actual hull but it made my head turn and you could prolly stuff it in the garage.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks, but I don't want a completed boat, I want to make it my own.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I keep my boat under a waterproof cover on the back driveway. It would fit in my upstairs garage but that's were we keep our vehicles 

I don't want my trailer tires on grass or dirt, that will rot them


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks, but I don't see how that will help since I can't get a trailed into my backyard, nor can I have or want a boat in my drive way. I don't have acreage, I live in a nice subdivision I love where we live, the only drawback is what I'm working with now. It's garage or bust.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

There are places you can store your boat for a monthly fee


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

17 mako. Is what you want, you just don't know it yet. The layout they come with is pretty good, or you can cut it up, doesn't matter. They ride good (for a 17) have little bit higher sides for heading out to the reef, draft shallow, powered by a 90 hp, lots of room. Done. You said 17 is max for the garage right?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> There are places you can store your boat for a monthly fee


Been there done that, never again. If it's not in my garage then it's not mine!

Cut that's not the boat for me at all. The Mako and Aquasport carry way more weight then I want to be towing all over the state with my little truck. Remember not all of us live .5 miles from the ramp. The hobie would be a better fit, but I am pretty much sold on the boat I posted a pic of, unless a cheap 16ft panga comes my way.

I wish I could delete this thread and start over saying if this was your boat how would you rig it out for fishing and family fun days.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

> 17 mako. Is what you want, you just don't know it yet.


The Mako 17 is a classic boat; I've been on one in the typical Chesapeake small craft advisory conditions, and the boat really could not care less.

And one thing that for me is a make or break characteristic- the Mako 17 is a "cult" boat. Somebody out there is dreaming to own one, and for good reason. If you stick with that sort of boat, it almost guarantees that it is a good hull shape; plus, you have a good chance of being able to get out of it without loosing your shirt.

Additionally, you may want to avoid "chopper gun" boats. If you are buying at the bottom of the barrel, why not go for a boat that has real glass.

Believe me, I've tried it both ways, and it's much more fun not to loose your shirt on a boat.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> > There are places you can store your boat for a monthly fee
> 
> 
> Been there done that, never again. If it's not in my garage then it's not mine!
> ...


You have a jeep 4.0l Cherokee right? That thing will tow a 17 mako across florida no worries.
If you found a 17 mako hull and gutted it the way you want to do and used composites and got all the old wet foam out the boat wouldn't be heavy at all, at all , at all. Lol
I know exactly where your mind is, and your point of thinking, but you really should consider the 17 mako. I saw one on cl the other day for $500. That would be perfect for firecat style gut and rebuild.

Those tri hulls "cathedral hulls", etc are real hit or miss. Some ride good, some will beat u to death. I've driven alot of them. Also, some are chopper gun boats, some arent. It's kinda a roll of the dice. I would hate to put all that time into rebuilding a boat only to run it the first time and realize it rides like death. You know what your getting with a 17 mako. And like stated before, one day, when you decide to sell it, it will sell. Those tri hulls don't sell. A boats not a wise investment but I would personally feel better putting money into something that I will know I can at least get half of it back. Lol


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> Believe me, I've tried it both ways, and it's much more fun not to loose your shirt on a boat.


Lol you are right, but you are also talking to someone who is not right in the head. Someone who will be taking a chainsaw to his boat rather then sell it, like I did to my last 2. 

I get what you are saying about the Mako's and Aquasports.... but they are heavy boats, require bigger motors, and I have a fairly long tow. I no longer have the jeep, I have a tacoma, and yes it will tow it, but at 12mpg and 120 mile round trip it adds up quick. If I get into a boat like those I won't be able to fish as often or outfit it as I would like. One thing I have always said is I never want a boat that costs me so much that I need to think if I can afford to go out. I appreciate all the input and mean no disrespect, but 1100lbs of hull and a 90hp is more then I want. However I'll still entertain it for now, but in the meantime lets move on and away from the hull choice itself, and more into the layout.

None of this would be an issue if they made a 16ft, reasonably priced panga in this country!


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I pull my silver king with 90 hp motor with my Tacoma, 3 hour round trip about 3 times a month. I get 15 mpg pulling the boat, 20 w/o.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm only getting 17-18mpg normally, towing my small skiff, maybe 1000lbs loaded with gear, it drops down to 15mpg. I'm less concerned with the towing as I am with having a thirsty older 2-stroke. I'm pretty spoiled as I get over 15mpg easy with my skiff now.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

I hear ya. I would still keep the idea in mind. It's gotta get better than 12 mpg towing though.
Anyways yea you need a panga or a hobie. Take a road trip to Mexico and go pickup a panga lol.

Fwiw if you want some real world experience. I take my boat out with 4 adults as an almost normal occasion. Have even taken 4 people in the keys spearfishing. So, 8 miles offshore,4 people and all spearfishing/diving gear,cooler,fish etc.
Me and another person on the cooler seat, another on the console seat and another on a bean bag chair (amazing invention and worth every penny btw) in front of the console. I can get away with it cuz I have the extra power but a 70 would still have no problem at all. Believe it or not with 4 people that thing rides A -f#$*£%-mazing. With the added weight the V goes to work splitting the waves I stead of just cutting through the top. Wish I had a video of that day in the keys. It picked up while we were out there and the ride was just so good you would have to be there to believe it. I drive boats, every different kind, all kinds, every day for my job. I was tickled pink


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Hobie Power Skiff - $450
http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/5131755426.html

via cPro Craigslist App
Android: http://tinyurl.com/CL-Android
iOS: http://tinyurl.com/CL-iDevice


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Screams firecat


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Maybe I'll go down there and just pick up a mold . I was wondering about those bean bags, might have to pick one up, could solve some family day seating issues. 

I'll do some thinking on all of it, I have plenty of time.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Damn you cut......Email sent :-?


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## tomahawk (Mar 9, 2012)

Bean bags are awesome. I got one for when the little woman comes along. She loves it.

Damn, you better snatch up that Hobie. That even tempts me....


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

> Hobie Power Skiff - $450
> http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/5131755426.html


There it is. Mountain Dew, Doritos, and an empty plastic bottle, stopping only for gas, tolls and the law.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> Bean bags are awesome. I got one for when the little woman comes along. She loves it.
> 
> Damn, you better snatch up that Hobie. That even tempts me....


Seriously. Mine was in about exact condition and I had to spend$1300....
I should buy it and build cut runner V2.0 then sell it to you lol


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Royce you just made me fall outta my chair! If we didn't have weekend plans, I'd be on the road already!


Seriously FC - That is THE DEAL OF THE YEAR. If the hull isn't busted to hell, that is perfect.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

No response from emails or text messages, I'm pretty sure it is gone by now. Oh well.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Are you dead set on a re-build? This is just a thought, but it seems like a standard sheer FS17 is a good option given your parameters. It should just barely fit your build space and your truck could tow it without issue. It seems you may want more deadrise, but I am not sure it is necessary for your listed requirements.

Nate


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Lol, Nate you read my mind. I was looking at the fs17 and OB15/18 today. I have time to decide, but may go that route in the end. The only issue with a full build is selling her when you are done. Was even considering a scaled down panga20, but it would be real narrow.

Also as discussed previously other considerations are cost. Mainly for a good motor. I can buy a boat/motor/trailer package in working order typically for less then a stand alone used outboard will cost.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

> Lol, Nate you read my mind. I was looking at the fs17 and OB15/18 today. I have time to decide, but may go that route in the end. The only issue with a full build is selling her when you are done. Was even considering a scaled down panga20, but it would be real narrow.
> 
> Also as discussed previously other considerations are cost. Mainly for a good motor. I can buy a boat/motor/trailer package in working order typically for less then a stand alone used outboard will cost.


One thing that I would recommend, if you are looking for a good deal, would be to get into a habit of searching every day. Searchtempest, ebay, whatever. Good deals do come up, OCCASIONALLY. So why not be the one to snatch them up! Once you get your routine down, it only takes a few minutes to run through it.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

> Lol, Nate you read my mind. I was looking at the fs17 and OB15/18 today. I have time to decide, but may go that route in the end. The only issue with a full build is selling her when you are done. Was even considering a scaled down panga20, but it would be real narrow.
> 
> Also as discussed previously other considerations are cost. Mainly for a good motor. I can buy a boat/motor/trailer package in working order typically for less then a stand alone used outboard will cost.


I like the panga idea also, but I have a gut feeling that the panga hull presents too many compromises when shortened to 16'. I know that a few makers make a 16'. They just don't look like comfortable 4 person cruising hulls to me. This is just my feeling and is based on no actual experience, but I think a longer waterline helps with the semi-displacement characteristics. A 16' panga also wouldn't leave much space for a console.

Nate


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I did the numbers on the panga20. In order to get it down to size I'd have to scale it down like 17% which will make the max beam only 60 inches. Not an ideal candidate, but the fs17 is looking pretty good.


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## fsae99 (Apr 8, 2010)

> I did the numbers on the panga20. In order to get it down to size I'd have to scale it down like 17% which will make the max beam only 60 inches. Not an ideal candidate, but the fs17 is looking pretty good.


You could build a "modified" panga style hull that has wider beam. Even most of the Pangas built here in the US are not to the same length to beam ratio found elsewhere in the world. As you know there are trade offs, a fatter boat is less fuel efficient, but I think that may be offset some by the resulting wider pad which is much easier to get up on. This would be especially true when heavily loaded. 

An 18 panga scaled to 16 is 12% reduction, that gets you to 65" beam.

An 18 Panga scaled to 17 is 6% reduction, that gets you to 68' beam.

Just another point of view is all I'm offering here.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

And I appreciate your point of view kind Sir! What you are suggesting is what I want to do, but a full design and build from scratch right now is not realistic within the time frame and budget of this build. 

The reason I was talking about the Panga20 is I can order the plans from Bateau.com and build it quickly, but if you scale the plans more then 10% you run into major issues. and adjusting the plans outside of scale makes the nesting plans useless. So now I am seriously considering the FS17 again. 

All that being said, a build even with plans will cost me much more then a refit due to having to buy a separate motor and rigging instead of a package deal. :-/


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

What about aluminum? It opens more options.

Nate


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Blasphemy! 

Seriously I'd consider it if I could tig weld, but I can't and I prefer glass and wood.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

> The old aquasports are on my list of consideration, but not at the top. Every guy here at one time or another had an idea in his head that he wanted to see through, a picture of something others may not like or agree with. That's how I came to build all my boats, each better designed then the last.
> 
> That being said, lets continue on assuming I have a blank slate in the form of a 16ft boat, with a hull weight of 500-700lbs, powered by a 40-70hp motor similar to the one pictured below:
> 
> ...




I assume a 17 whaler is off the list? seems to be about the size and dimensions of the one you posted above, plus its self bailing and all glass.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Not at all, but they are cost prohibitive for what I'm looking for.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

> Not at all, but they are cost prohibitive for what I'm looking for.


My montauk was 800 dollars, but it was the worst boat ever.  That said, I have been chipping away at the repairs.  It's a whole other thing to work on those boats due to the foam core.  

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1409878019/3


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Lol yes it is, digging out foam sucks. I have been looking at some, but it's slim pickings around here for what I want, and want to spend. Plus they are happy with a bit more power then I want to use.

I have been crunching some numbers and it seems in order to build an FS17 from scratch I'm looking at over $3k just for the hull and some rigging. Not including a motor or trailer.... as far as a budget build goes, this ain't one. 

I keep coming back to my original plan, as unpopular as it is, as a stop gap for the next few years until I design and build what I really want.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

A montauk will do surprisingly well with 50 hp.

What sort of power do you have in mind?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

40 to 70hp. I rented a 15ft whaler a few years ago with a 50 and it did ok, but felt sluggish. Could have been a logged hull though.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

the 15 is a whole other animal. I think it is a deeper v and responds well to as much hp as can be bolted on. 

The 17 does about 30 mph with a 50 hp, and hops on to plane, particularly the older "sled" type boats. The hull was updated in the 1970's to have a little more v and run dryer. Not for everyone, but there is not much you could do to trip one up.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

> Blasphemy!
> 
> Seriously I'd consider it if I could tig weld, but I can't and I prefer glass and wood.


I also like to work with glass and wood and wish I could TIG weld. However, I think it should be possible to finish out the interior of an aluminum hull using wood and glass and have it still look good and be reasonably light. You'd have to have someone else TIG mounting points at the appropriate places. If you wanted to be obnoxiously independent, you could rivet the mount brackets on, but I personally don't like using rivets in positions where they experience shear loading. You'd then basically build a liner, over-drill, fill and re-drill the attachment holes and then rivet it to the mount points. I'd run a bead of silicon sealant on all contact points to prevent rattling. It wouldn't be self-bailing, but a good automatic bilge pump with a backup manual bilge pump can negate that for inshore and calm nearshore use like you suggest.

The reason I am persistent with this idea is because the combination of a mod-vee hull, low budget and light weight is tough to come by once you remove aluminum hulls from the running. Those old tri-hulls may be cheap, but they aren't light so they won't give you the same performance for your HP as a lighter aluminum mod-vee would. A well set-up aluminum hull would also be a lot easier to sell than a tri-hull once you build "The Grail 12.0".

Nate


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

Just about every welded aluminum boat would be mig welded with a spool gun- it's a much faster and less skilled process compared to tig. 

Mig welding could be picked up very quickly; it took me several months to learn to butt tig weld light gauge material.

Mig is one step up from operating a caulk gun- it just squirts metal into the weld pool. Not quite that easy, but it could be picked up in a short time, particularly with all the help on youtube.


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

This turned out to be a fun thread.  It was nice trying to think about something other than a poling skiff.  

I spent my childhood in a 14 McKee craft.  I had it offshore on several occasions.  This thread made me think back to those days where my dad needed a boat to fish, pull a shrimp net, waterski, be safe for a 13 year old, and not break the bank. A whipray certainly cannot multitask like that.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> This turned out to be a fun thread. It was nice trying to think about something other than a poling skiff.
> 
> I spent my childhood in a 14 McKee craft. I had it offshore on several occasions. This thread made me think back to those days where my dad needed a boat to fish, pull a shrimp net, waterski, be safe for a 13 year old, and not break the bank. A whipray certainly cannot multitask like that.


Exactly, it's just not something we typically think about, most everything here is so focused on getting skinny. 

On the aluminum note, it's not a bad idea at all, but I have some concerns I don't think I'll be able to get past. Giving up the self bailing deck is pretty much a deal breaker. I've been swamped before, and while I knew I'd be ok, it is still worrisome having to rely solely on a bilge pump. also the difficulty in putting in as much floatation foam as I want both vertically and horizontally. 

I would be open to it, if I had the ability to weld nearly everything. Ultimately though I'm not comfortable enough with aluminum to go that route. At least not for rough waters, for a skinny skiff I'd be ok though.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

firecat1981 said:


> Exactly, it's just not something we typically think about, most everything here is so focused on getting skinny.
> 
> On the aluminum note, it's not a bad idea at all, but I have some concerns I don't think I'll be able to get past. Giving up the self bailing deck is pretty much a deal breaker. I've been swamped before, and while I knew I'd be ok, it is still worrisome having to rely solely on a bilge pump. also the difficulty in putting in as much floatation foam as I want both vertically and horizontally.
> 
> I would be open to it, if I had the ability to weld nearly everything. Ultimately though I'm not comfortable enough with aluminum to go that route. At least not for rough waters, for a skinny skiff I'd be ok though.


For rough waters, aluminum is the premier small boat material. Those coast guard patrol boats that buzz around are made from aluminum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defender-class_boat

Plus, it's possible to get pre cut kits, where you weld the boat together. These boats are aluminum plate though, not sheet. I like the idea of a neglected fiberglass boat, but aluminum boat will kick butt compared to fiberglass in hard use.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Those coast guard boats have a large rigid float ring built into them. That's not something a novice will be able to do easily. That's where much of their seaworthiness comes from. 

I like the idea of aluminum, but not having much welding experience, or any equipment, I'm not going down that road this go around.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Throw up a pic of your drawing of the deck layout you are considering and that may lead to further discussion on possible retired hulls. At least you would get some pros and cons of various hull shapes.


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## JRyno10 (Feb 3, 2014)

Something that comes to my mind is a 16' cape horn. Here is a link to one however you cant see the inside very well. They are a very big boat for being only 16' long. https://mobile.craigslist.org/boa/5177772725.html


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Lots to consider in the upcoming months! I've been thinking more and more on the layout and drew up some very simple drawings. Nothing is to scale here so don't jump on me.

This is a fairly typical small CC layout. With large front and rear decks it is great for 2 guys fishing. It's not so usable for family days though.


The next 2 designs are what I am leaning towards. They utilize smaller front and rear deck designs to add more features to the interior and seating space. Since I don't fly fish I really don't need a large deck, just a few square feet to stand on.

This one features a leaning post bait well combo.


This is the one I am leaning towards. It has almost a bowrider setup to optimize seating for family days, while still retaining a fishable.


Thoughts?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I think #2 is closer to what you are seeking.
But, it is still a fishing layout...look at any bay boat and that is the design.

I really think what you should do is design your family boat and then mold it to a fishing boat


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Do you mean the leaning post, or the bowrider style? I have been looking at bay boats, and that is what I'm trying to design, basically a mini-bay. Those 2 sketches will allow me to have additional cockpit space and easily carry 5 on board for some river cruising, but will fish great with 2 guys still. 

I tried to design the layout for family cruising and then wrap a boat around it, but I keep ending up with a pontoon boat.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

firecat1981 said:


> Do you mean the leaning post, or the bowrider style? I have been looking at bay boats, and that is what I'm trying to design, basically a mini-bay. Those 2 sketches will allow me to have additional cockpit space and easily carry 5 on board for some river cruising, but will fish great with 2 guys still.
> 
> I tried to design the layout for family cruising and then wrap a boat around it, but I keep ending up with a pontoon boat.


A pontoon boat is pretty easy to customize!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

WhiteDog70810 said:


> A pontoon boat is pretty easy to customize!


Sir, with all due respect, I bite my thumb at thee!


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

pontoon boats are like mopeds- they are both fun to ride until your friends see you.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

timemachine said:


> pontoon boats are like mopeds- they are both fun to ride until your friends see you.


Exactly. Now if I lived on a lake then I might have one converted for floating bbq's, but I do not. So now that I've posted my thoughts, any ideas on tweaking layouts, or added fearures? 

I was looking at the rule pumps, since they have a wash down pump hookup I might add one.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Was looking through some stuff today and came upon 2 16ft models from mojito that are very interesting! Just way to dang pricey. Might have to go and build my own.

www.mojitoboats.com


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

FC you've been around long enough to know what to do. Make a list of the list common 16/17x6 fiberglass boats out there. Narrow it down by hull shape and start shopping. Building, glassing, fairing, and finishing a hull is nearly the hardest part of a build. 

Find a neglected boat with a decent motor and trailer, strip it down and rebuild!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

permitchaser said:


> What dicknut said and self bailing. Forget[ch127754][ch128676] 16' for what you want to do with the boat. Think 18 minimum


Yes. A 1968 Montauk Boston Whaler would be best for the crossings and camping. I owned one at one time. Had the cool blue gelcoat inside. If you are ready you can find them for less than $8k.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

If you said I could find it for less then $1500 then I'd be considering it. Between rebuild and toys I'd need to be down in that range. 

Gramps I've been trying, but like my previous builds I'm just not finding exactly what I want...but I can build it! Seriously though I'm not super concerned about the hull, I'll figure that out, but I gotta work out these options so I can budget for them.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

the old sled style whaler can be had for low money. The newer smirk style hulls are a little more, and ride a little nicer.


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