# Space-X discussion meeting 6/25...



## Rediculous

The meeting to voice your concerns about Space-X building a facility in Shiloh is being held on the 25th of this month at 5pm in the old library at Manatee Park, in NSB. If the building of this facility happens, a good portion of both the Mosquito and Indian River Lagoons would be off limits. If you would like the lagoon to stay the way it is, please show and make your voice heard. Don't let these dirtbags get away with this nonsense.


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## HaMm3r

More background on this potentially disastrous plan...
http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1365119197


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## Apeacock

I'll be there


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## [email protected]

Why can't they ever have these meetings when normal working people can get there?


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## fishicaltherapist

THAT"S the idea Zeus...........We don't mean chizit to them, but, WE do have a voice in numbers!!!!! [smiley=angry4.gif]


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## Rediculous

> Why can't they ever have these meetings when normal working people can get there?


I'm sure it's for a reason, and it's definitely not one that is beneficial to us. 
Most normal working people get off by 5. Even if you're late, your presence would be appreciated by all who are there. For me, it's worth doing whatever I need to do to fight this insanity. I really hope more people, who can make the time to fish this area, feel the same as I do. It would be absolutely awful if these people are able to do what they wanna do.


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## islander1225

The govt is invovled, so kiss the water to fish goodbye, Us nobodies have no chance making this not happen. 

Look at all the protest and petitions etc etc that has gone on with the red Snapper ban and what have we gotten like 2 eekends a year. It is all a big joke, The Govt doesnt care about the people, only in lining their pockets with $$$


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## cutrunner

Sad, ive never fished the are but ive stayed in new symrna and its a beautiful place.
Looks like a perfect kinda laid back place to raise kids etc.


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## Rediculous

> The govt is invovled, so kiss the water to fish goodbye, Us nobodies have no chance making this not happen.
> 
> Look at all the protest and petitions etc etc that has gone on with the red Snapper ban and what have we gotten like 2 eekends a year. It is all a big joke, The Govt doesnt care about the people, only in lining their pockets with $$$


Actually the govt. isn't involved. It would be if they were to use the NASA facility, which is what they are trying to avoid. This is a state run deal. The state of florida is trying to secure this contract and get the govt. to give back a portion of the land to florida so they can sell it to SpaceX. This same deal was proposed 5 years ago, and through petitions and protests it was abolished. Now since it's been awhile, they're trying it again. Using jobs as their leverage to try to sway the majority. This can be fought and done away with, just bending over and taking it is not the way to go.


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## Rediculous

> Sad, ive never fished the are but ive stayed in new symrna and its a beautiful place.
> Looks like a perfect kinda laid back place to raise kids etc.


I could not have asked for a cooler place to grow up. Unfortunately, it has lost allot of it's small beach town charm. The influx of out of towners on the weekends, has basically made this area a nightmare for locals. You can believe, if this SpaceX deal goes through. It'll be the last straw for me, and I'll be looking to move to another county or state even. 
Oak Hill will be most affected if this passes. It would literally be less than 3 miles from some peoples doorsteps...


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## fishicaltherapist

Isn't it STRANGE.....?.....We are NOT to get too close to Govt. or BIG company properties BUT, they can turn around and park their "azzes" right in OUR back yards. My forum friends; call,e-mail,write letters,tell everybody WE can to do the same to defeat this money grubbing, nature destroying INSANITY. If I remember correctly WE, THE PEOPLE(see CONSTITUTION) run the UNITED States of AMERICA!!! Contact every politician we can...PLEASE...and I live on the West coast of this great State. Thanks, [smiley=2cents.gif] [smiley=devil10.gif] [smiley=devil10.gif] [smiley=deal.gif] [smiley=deal.gif]


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## [email protected]

A friend of mine who grew up on the refuge when they had housing their went to the meeting and this is what she said

Where do I start????

There were over 100 people at the meeting.
A lot of retired NASA people.
Several environmental people………Audubon, Sierra, Conservation.
Several fishermen
Residents

It was put on by Chamber of Commerce for South East Volusia County who supports Space Florida and have made their decision BEFORE any environmental impact studies have been done.
I tried to write down people’s names but could not write fast enough.
Doug Gibson-Mayor Oak Hill
Senator Dorothy L. Hukill
Volusia County Council Member Deb Denys
Dale Ketcham-Space Florida

There was NO ONE on this panel to speak for the environment.

An environmental impact study will be done by FAA over next 12-18 months and will allow for public input so make your opinions known!

Space Florida is making a proposal to Kennedy Space Center and Department of Transportation to get the land (Shiloh Marsh) back from them.

One of the reasons they like this area is because it is in the middle of what they call a triangle with the triangle sides being UCF, Embry Riddle, and FIT-Melbourne.
All 3 universities with strong aerospace programs.

They want to use 150 acres.
2 launch pads would each use 75 acres.
These 2 launch pads will only create about 30 jobs.

Space X is already in negotiations with NASA for launch pads 39A, 40, and the shuttle landing facility.

Dale Ketcham with Space Florida repeatedly said Texas Audubon and Texas Sierra are supportive of the launch facilities there.
He said it so much that it gave the implication that if they supported it there then it would get support here.
I spoke up and said Texas is NOT Florida.
However, upon research today I have learned that Texas Sierra is not taking a position for or against the project until they have had time to work through all of the environmental impact study information.
Texas Audubon does not support the project in Texas.

All of the people who were leading this meeting recently went to Washington DC to meet with politicians to gain their support for this project.
Names they mentioned include:
Senator Bill Nelson
http://www.billnelson.senate.gov/contact/

Senator Marco Rubio
http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/casework

Congressman John Mica
http://mica.house.gov/contact-me/

Dr. George C. Nield-Associate Administrator for Commercial Space Transportation-FAA
http://www.faa.gov/about/key_officials/nield/

Congrassman Bill Posey
http://posey.house.gov/contact/

Questions and Answers:

People asked what will happen if something goes wrong especially because these launches will not be over the ocean like the apollo’s and shuttle’s were.
Dale Ketcham with Space Florida replied that they have insurance for accidents.
So, people’s homes and lives are worth whatever his insurance company pays out.

People asked over and over again why Shiloh.
Dale Ketcham with Space Florida…………….they want to be able to launch under FAA guidelines but without KSC and the Air Force guidelines.

Several former NASA workers stood up and said that no matter how careful these space companies are there will be accidents.

People wanted to know how the endangered species were going to be protected.
Dale Ketcham with Space Florida referred back to the environmental impact study that has not yet been done.

One person spoke of the historical buildings and graveyard at Shiloh.
No one adequately answered him.

People wanted to know how much land and how long the area would be closed for a launch.
Dale Ketcham with Space Florida referred back to the environmental impact study that has not yet been done.

People asked about their livlihoods such as fishing guides.
Dale Ketcham with Space Florida compared the local fishing guides income to Space Florida’s income in relation to tax revenue.
Basically, he said Space companies bring more money so they should get what they want.
That did not go over well.

Only 1 person from the audience spoke in favor of this project.

Everyone else in the audience would support this project IF it was using KSC launch pads and leaving Shiloh alone.

This is the 3rd time they have attempted to gain control of Shiloh.


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## flatsmaster23

i was a little dissappointed in the turnout by fisherman but its all about the $$$$$$$ .... for a county that u cant move a tortoise turtle and there willing to approve this site location for possible development of this kind is mind blowing ... they love to mitigate which means if u pay the $$$ they will let you do it .. they should get the govt to give them 150 acres where there is currently a unused launch pad instead of 150 acres at shiloh !!!!!


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## fishicaltherapist

Thanks Maverick! AGAIN.....ALL OF US need to just hammer it down THEIR throats.....NO,NO,NO!!!! PLEASE take the time to let OUR voices be heard, contact the above listed names,newspapers,tv,and radio. It's not just for us but,also, our kids and down the line.


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## Rediculous

Yes, the turn out of anglers was poor. And the attitude of the people running the meeting was even worse. Ketchum said more than once, "I don't care where they put it". These people just wanna get their money and be done with it. They could care less who else is negatively affected by this. Effing dirtbags....


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## [email protected]

> Yes, the turn out of anglers was poor. And the attitude of the people running the meeting was even worse. Ketchum said more than once, "I don't care where they put it". These people just wanna get their money and be done with it. They could care less who else is negatively affected by this. Effing dirtbags....



There's no way I could have been there. I don't get done with work until 7pm. But, I am concerned about this. I too would be all for this project if they would use existing NASA facilities.


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## [email protected]

> i was a little dissappointed in the turnout by fisherman but its all about the $$$$$$$ .... for a county that u cant move a tortoise turtle and there willing to approve this site location  for possible development of this kind is mind blowing ... they love to mitigate which means if u pay the $$$ they will let you do it .. they should get the govt to give them 150 acres where there is currently a unused launch pad instead of 150 acres at shiloh !!!!!


Tell me about it. I just built a house in Edgewater between US 1 and the river. In what was unknown to us, the mosquito lagoon management area. You wouldn't think it would be looking at the other houses on our street. The environmentalist at the county had their way with us. Cost us an extra $5 grand to do the landscaping and trees the way they wanted it. To think they'll let Shiloh be developed and restricted when it's not necessary drives me crazy


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## Rediculous

> Yes, the turn out of anglers was poor. And the attitude of the people running the meeting was even worse. Ketchum said more than once, "I don't care where they put it". These people just wanna get their money and be done with it. They could care less who else is negatively affected by this. Effing dirtbags....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no way I could have been there. I don't get done with work until 7pm. But, I am concerned about this. I too would be all for this project if they would use existing NASA facilities.
Click to expand...

It was really just a discussion about their plans. So being there really wasn't that important, if you already know their agenda. I understand, some peoples schedules won't coincide. But, the meetings to come, a boost of angler presence would be really beneficial.


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## Bill_Nosan

My concern is not just the 150 acres, but the subsequent security/buffer zones. Has their been any discussion/press on what they might be?

TY


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## Rediculous

> My concern is not just the 150 acres, but the subsequent security/buffer zones. Has their been any discussion/press on what they might be?
> 
> TY


I hate to sound selfish, but that is my main concern also. I have not heard much about this. The only thing I heard is the surrounding area would only be closed during launches. But I find that hard to believe. I'm assuming they would only have control over the actual 150 acres they would own. So I guess if any waters were to be apart of that, they would probably be permanently closed. I would think the inner waters of the IRL, would be completely off limits to the duck hunters that use them.


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## flatsmaster23

if they get approval and have a accident the buffer zone wont matter !!!! :'( and if they get there foot in the door i seriously doubt it will stop there... then as this current technology is obselete or less profitable then on to something else ...


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## Rediculous

> if they get approval and have a accident the buffer zone wont matter !!!! :'( and if they get there foot in the door i seriously doubt it will stop there... then as this current technology is obselete or less profitable then on to something else ...


I honestly can't fathom, them getting this approved. It just boggles my brain, that's it's even on the table. Politics and bureaucracy must be above my intelligence, cause I just don't get it....


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## HaMm3r

Russian rocket explodes this morning. What if this happens over the lagoon or the NIRL?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/europe/russia-rocket-explosion/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


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## flatsmaster23

great minds think alike ;D ;D ... maybe they could build it by the senators home ... sure she wouldnt appose that


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## fishicaltherapist

There's PLENTY of available land in the Tallahassee area. Just think of all the TRAVEL expenses that could be SAVED by our POLITICIANS!!!


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## Rediculous

> Russian rocket explodes this morning. What if this happens over the lagoon or the NIRL?
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/europe/russia-rocket-explosion/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


They answered this question at the meeting. Insurance would fix it. :


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## Bill_Nosan

I wrote letters to all the emails posted earlier in this thread. Received only one response from Rubio, and that one stated only that is was received and would be looked into.


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## HaMm3r

Start signing! I did...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...and-natl-refuge-commercial-spaceport/qNmpxk9V


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## Rediculous

> Start signing! I did...
> 
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...and-natl-refuge-commercial-spaceport/qNmpxk9V


Thanks for the posting the petition.
Please sign this petition, even if you're not directly affected by this. Any more damage to this estuary could spell disaster for many surrounding fisheries.


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