# 2003 Mitzi 16cc (project need guidance)



## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

I just recently picked up a Mitzi 16 with a 60hp mercury. The previous owner thought it was acceptable to drill holes and glass in wood any where he pleased, so now I have the pleasure of patching all the holes. I have not worked with fiberglass before so this is all new to me. Any suggestions on the best way to patch holes on deck would be greatly appreciated.

I will post photos as soon as I figure out how.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

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## CodyW (Jan 26, 2016)

Go to West system website and it will show you how to make thicken epoxy to fill the drilled holes.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Diamond in the rough. Keep us updated on your progress. Your before/after shots will be pretty striking.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

Thank you Cody. 

Yeah unfortunately I didn't realize how rough the diamond was. I looked at it at night and drove far to get it, at that point no turning around. Ill hopefully have some progress photos after the holidays.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Where are you located? There may be some people on this forum that have worked with glass before that would be willing to help out in return for a couple beers


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## CodyW (Jan 26, 2016)

Justfloaton said:


> Thank you Cody.
> 
> Yeah unfortunately I didn't realize how rough the diamond was. I looked at it at night and drove far to get it, at that point no turning around. Ill hopefully have some progress photos after the holidays.


Now you don't necessarily need to use epoxy. Polyester resin is cheaper and will do the same thing. Polyester will last as long as you have the boat if the prep work is done right.


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## Outearly (Oct 20, 2015)

not2shabby said:


> Diamond in the rough. Keep us updated on your progress. Your before/after shots will be pretty striking.


I agree with this- should be cool- one step at a time


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

Outearly said:


> I agree with this- should be cool- one step at a time


I'm going slow and steady, pulling all the wiring today. The boat didn't have a battery kill switch and the wiring was horrible so that's project one.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

bryson said:


> Where are you located? There may be some people on this forum that have worked with glass before that would be willing to help out in return for a couple beers


I'm in Palm beach county, (Jupiter) trust me the bribing has already started. I'm calling anyone I know who I think has the slightest experience in fiberglass work.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

CodyW said:


> Now you don't necessarily need to use epoxy. Polyester resin is cheaper and will do the same thing. Polyester will last as long as you have the boat if the prep work is done right.


I'll look into polyester resin, anywhere I can cut cost without affecting the quality sounds good to me.


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## CodyW (Jan 26, 2016)

Post some close shots of the holes you want to fill. That way I can give you some more detail on fixing it. The only thing I'm concerned with is that you said there was wood as the core. Did you check to make sure there's no rot?


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

The wood he glassed to the boat is some make shift rod holders along the gunnel, I've cut them out already but have to repair the area.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

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Here are some close ups of addition work needed to be repaired.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

The more I look at this thing the more I like it. Those hulls are rare birds down here in South Louisiana. If it were mine I would be tempted to strip everything you can off that hull and start over. I think you have a really good opportunity to have something special without ruining your credit rating. Everything about this boat is awesome except for that trailer. The trailer has to go. Everything about life is so much better when you don't have a janky trailer. 

Cool boat man. I wish it were closer to me, I'd offer you a spot in the corner of my shop.


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## CodyW (Jan 26, 2016)

Justfloaton said:


> View attachment 4412
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> View attachment 4415
> ...


The area where the wood was taken off I would just grind the rest of the wood out and sand smooth then finish off with fairing compound. You said you want to do it cheap so instead of fairing compound you should get a lightweight filler at your local marine supply store. As far as the bulkhead goes, I can't tell if there is a core in there or not? If there is no core try to get on the inside of the bulk head and sand around the hole with 40 grit and put a layer of chopped mat. Then take the grinder on the outside of the hole and grind the sharp edge. This will make the hole look like a cone in hole. Now you can use as many layers of chopped mat to to fill the hole. Be sure to sand the gel coat off before any glassing. As far as filling holes that were drilled you can use poly resin and cabosil silica as a thickener.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I have always loved Mitzi's. I guess you still have the PP platform. People on here can help with any fiberglass help you need
They have helped me before when I was a neafite


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

CodyW said:


> The area where the wood was taken off I would just grind the rest of the wood out and sand smooth then finish off with fairing compound. You said you want to do it cheap so instead of fairing compound you should get a lightweight filler at your local marine supply store. As far as the bulkhead goes, I can't tell if there is a core in there or not? If there is no core try to get on the inside of the bulk head and sand around the hole with 40 grit and put a layer of chopped mat. Then take the grinder on the outside of the hole and grind the sharp edge. This will make the hole look like a cone in hole. Now you can use as many layers of chopped mat to to fill the hole. Be sure to sand the gel coat off before any glassing. As far as filling holes that were drilled you can use poly resin and cabosil silica as a


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

I'd rather do it clean than cheap, or the right way over cheap.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Oh maybe you need to power wash it first with a little bleach


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## CodyW (Jan 26, 2016)

Justfloaton said:


> I'd rather do it clean than cheap, or the right way over cheap.


There are a lot of different ways to do it. I went ahead and tried to give an easy process. In your mind you are probably thinking that poly resin is no good, that's ok because it is talked down by a lot of people. To be honest, many high end boat builders are using poly resin to build their boats still. I've also called many companies about doing repairs on the boats and all of them recommended poly over epoxy. The process I showed you will come out neat and last a long time. I know this because I too am a neat freak.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

CodyW said:


> There are a lot of different ways to do it. I went ahead and tried to give an easy process. In your mind you are probably thinking that poly resin is no good, that's ok because it is talked down by a lot of people. To be honest, many high end boat builders are using poly resin to build their boats still. I've also called many companies about doing repairs on the boats and all of them recommended poly over epoxy. The process I showed you will come out neat and last a long time. I know this because I too am a neat freak.


I appreciate the advice, I am currently working on the motor, and getting all the wiring down. Putting in all new wiring and fuel lines. Haven't ran the motor yet so that is priority one. When I start doing the glass work I'll share the progress.


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## GTSRGTSR (Nov 10, 2009)

Glue Products in WPB is your best spot. All the supplies and knowledgeable people too.

I am in Lantana and go to Jupiter pretty often.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

GTSRGTSR said:


> Glue Products in WPB is your best spot. All the supplies and knowledgeable people too.
> 
> I am in Lantana and go to Jupiter pretty often.


Thank you, go the motor running so I dropped it off at my buddies shop to get it tuned. I'll be starting on the body repairs next week.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

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Got the boat back from the mechanics, motors purring! I did a little work this week. 

Hooked up the steering.
Cut and sanded the rod holders off.
And few other minor things. 

Here are close ups of the holes in the front deck.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

I've watched a bunch of videos on how to repair holes but none of the videos show how to repair such thick holes. My front deck has fiberglass/foam board/fiberglass so it's 1 inch thick. Anyone know the best way to repair a hole that thick?


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I used to work at Broward Shipyard many years ago. Fixing those holes are not difficult. Yes, you can use polyester resin and be more than fine. That skiff was built with polyester resin. Now, I wouldn't recommend using what they call "boat yard" polyester resin, as that is essentially just a big mix of whatever resins are laying around. I'd get some "Lay up" polyester resin.

Now, fixing hole. First things first, you're going to want to grind off the gelcoat surrounding the hole. I'd suggest you cut a square around the existing circular hole, so it's a nice clean cut shaped like a square. Why a square? it's easier to cut out a say 4x4" piece of core material than it would be to get a circular cut to fill an old hole that was likely not a perfect circle to begin with. You will get yourself a scrap piece of core material. You should be able to buy a small 2' x 4' piece or whatever you think you will need to fill every hole on the skiff, from a fiberglass supply, or even a boat shop. Someone will likely give you a scrap piece of core. Likely, it's 6lb density foam, or some type of honeycomb. You are going to want to laminate the core material BEFORE cutting it into the small square to fill your newly cut square. Once you have laminated the core material on both sides, and it's cured, you will cut it to the right measurement. Now, you will need to get some Cabosil to thicken up some resin into a paste. This will act as a glue. Glue the part snugly in place. On the outside edge that will be visible, I recommend you get a Dremel or something of the type and grind in a small bevel on the newly jointed seam. fill the newly beveled seam with some more cabosil mix, then One to two layers of 1708 Biax Mat side down, then come over the top with a layer of chop strand mat that is slightly larger than the piece of 1708. Make sure the glass goes over raw, grinded glass. Don't expect to put glass on top of gel coat. It will not hold very long. Once that's cured, take a rough grit sand paper on a sander and sand it smooth. Get yourself some fairing compound and fair it in.


Another option is if you have access to the backside of the hole, to get yourself some formica, and drill it to the fiberglass surrounding the hole. That'll essentially act as a mold. You can then lay up glass from the inside. I would recommend starting with a layer of chop strand mat, then at least three layers of 1708, mat side up. Each one being slightly larger than the last. Once that's cured, you can take the screws out, remove the formica and you will have a nice, smooth surface where there used to be a gaping hole. Then, fill in the small screw holes with cabosil, sand and fair it all in. 




That's two methods to fill a big hole. I am sure you'll have the forum nazi's say that it must be epoxy (thats not true), and I'm sure they'll have other methods to fix it, but these methods will work well, if done properly. Fiberglass isn't rocket science. But you have to make sure to grind every surface you plan on bonding, and make sure you use the right amount of MEK. Too much or too little can be detrimental.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

GTSRGTSR said:


> Glue Products in WPB is your best spot. All the supplies and knowledgeable people too.
> 
> I am in Lantana and go to Jupiter pretty often.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

Are you mentioning you go to Jupiter often to offer a hand?


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

paint it black said:


> I used to work at Broward Shipyard many years ago. Fixing those holes are not difficult. Yes, you can use polyester resin and be more than fine. That skiff was built with polyester resin. Now, I wouldn't recommend using what they call "boat yard" polyester resin, as that is essentially just a big mix of whatever resins are laying around. I'd get some "Lay up" polyester resin.
> 
> Now, fixing hole. First things first, you're going to want to grind off the gelcoat surrounding the hole. I'd suggest you cut a square around the existing circular hole, so it's a nice clean cut shaped like a square. Why a square? it's easier to cut out a say 4x4" piece of core material than it would be to get a circular cut to fill an old hole that was likely not a perfect circle to begin with. You will get yourself a scrap piece of core material. You should be able to buy a small 2' x 4' piece or whatever you think you will need to fill every hole on the skiff, from a fiberglass supply, or even a boat shop. Someone will likely give you a scrap piece of core. Likely, it's 6lb density foam, or some type of honeycomb. You are going to want to laminate the core material BEFORE cutting it into the small square to fill your newly cut square. Once you have laminated the core material on both sides, and it's cured, you will cut it to the right measurement. Now, you will need to get some Cabosil to thicken up some resin into a paste. This will act as a glue. Glue the part snugly in place. On the outside edge that will be visible, I recommend you get a Dremel or something of the type and grind in a small bevel on the newly jointed seam. fill the newly beveled seam with some more cabosil mix, then One to two layers of 1708 Biax Mat side down, then come over the top with a layer of chop strand mat that is slightly larger than the piece of 1708. Make sure the glass goes over raw, grinded glass. Don't expect to put glass on top of gel coat. It will not hold very long. Once that's cured, take a rough grit sand paper on a sander and sand it smooth. Get yourself some fairing compound and fair it in.
> 
> ...


You sir seem like you know what you're doing, if ever looking to make a little extra money I could use the help or at least guidance. All though you have explained it very well, I get the (easier said than done) vibe here. I am sure I can figure it out easily after doing it once or twice, but it's the once or twice I'm scared of.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

paint it black said:


> I used to work at Broward Shipyard many years ago. Fixing those holes are not difficult. Yes, you can use polyester resin and be more than fine. That skiff was built with polyester resin. Now, I wouldn't recommend using what they call "boat yard" polyester resin, as that is essentially just a big mix of whatever resins are laying around. I'd get some "Lay up" polyester resin.
> 
> Now, fixing hole. First things first, you're going to want to grind off the gelcoat surrounding the hole. I'd suggest you cut a square around the existing circular hole, so it's a nice clean cut shaped like a square. Why a square? it's easier to cut out a say 4x4" piece of core material than it would be to get a circular cut to fill an old hole that was likely not a perfect circle to begin with. You will get yourself a scrap piece of core material. You should be able to buy a small 2' x 4' piece or whatever you think you will need to fill every hole on the skiff, from a fiberglass supply, or even a boat shop. Someone will likely give you a scrap piece of core. Likely, it's 6lb density foam, or some type of honeycomb. You are going to want to laminate the core material BEFORE cutting it into the small square to fill your newly cut square. Once you have laminated the core material on both sides, and it's cured, you will cut it to the right measurement. Now, you will need to get some Cabosil to thicken up some resin into a paste. This will act as a glue. Glue the part snugly in place. On the outside edge that will be visible, I recommend you get a Dremel or something of the type and grind in a small bevel on the newly jointed seam. fill the newly beveled seam with some more cabosil mix, then One to two layers of 1708 Biax Mat side down, then come over the top with a layer of chop strand mat that is slightly larger than the piece of 1708. Make sure the glass goes over raw, grinded glass. Don't expect to put glass on top of gel coat. It will not hold very long. Once that's cured, take a rough grit sand paper on a sander and sand it smooth. Get yourself some fairing compound and fair it in.
> 
> ...


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

View attachment 4819
Okay, I get what your saying about cutting the holes into squares but for this spot should I do one big square to reduce the amount of patches?


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Those holes actually look surprisingly circular. You might be able to get away with cutting circles to fit in there. The easiest way would be using a hole-saw on a drill that is the right size That'll give you perfect circles.

I probably would do individual small repairs instead of one big one.

The small drill bit size holes, just bevel them and fill with resin/cabosil.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

paint it black said:


> Those holes actually look surprisingly circular. You might be able to get away with cutting circles to fit in there. The easiest way would be using a hole-saw on a drill that is the right size That'll give you perfect circles.
> 
> I probably would do individual small repairs instead of one big one.
> 
> The small drill bit size holes, just bevel them and fill with resin/cabosil.


Thanks for the help.


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## CodyW (Jan 26, 2016)

Looks like you just about got it all dialed in.


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## taco29403 (Jun 16, 2015)

I found this out after my project but regular fiberglass mat has a binder in it that the polyester resin dissolves. You can use epoxy with it but you'll probably get a better result with the polyester for less money.


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## Justfloaton (Feb 17, 2013)

CodyW said:


> Looks like you just about got it all dialed in.


We'll see, I haven't started the patch work yet. I have been working on the major issues first; steering, motor, electrical, etc... should be starting on the cosmetics this weekend.


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## GTSRGTSR (Nov 10, 2009)

I just saw this.... yes, I can help you.. I also have a chunk of honeycomb core I can cut your a piece off of too. Listen to anything Eric says, in my opinion...


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## jonny (May 1, 2007)

PIB gave some good advice. You should be able to cut those with a hole saw perfect like he said. Another rule of thumb on repairs. Especially with poly. Is to to enlarge the repair area in about a 3 to 1 ratio. Feather it out around it and it needs to be rough enough for the mechanical bond. The feathering is needed to keep the stress off the edge of the hole. It needs to have enough bevel around the edge to compensate for the thickness of the layers of glass added. If you don't have enough room for a good overlap over the repair area. When you go to grind it flat. You will end removing the material you just added. Making for a weak repair that will likely be trouble down the road.


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