# Big popper setup



## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

What line/leader rig are you using for big poppers? I’m throwing a cross current 9# 1 piece, leader is a 50-40-30 mono. Don’t recall the line & it is not in front of me. This particular rig doesn’t turn the fly over worth a damn. Ex: Med sized double barrel popper, 2/0 hook, dragonfly tail. I’m sure I could step up to my 12 weights but don’t want to tamper with my tarpon rigs. Thanks for any help


----------



## Austin Bustamante (May 11, 2015)

Does it throw well before the dragon tail gets wet?


----------



## tunataker (Jul 8, 2018)

Line weight doesn’t mean anything. Weights are all over the place. I use an intermediate line of 310 grains with my 8 Wt rod. For a 9 Wt rod I would probably try a 400 grain line.


----------



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Try six or seven ft leader and SA Grand Slam. I will test tomorrow.


----------



## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

Big poppers are 10 wt territory for me. Throwing an Xi3 with SA Tarpon line, turns over big flies no problem and is the perfect match for the fish I am hoping will eat a 2/0 popper.


----------



## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

@Austin Bustamante it does not do well even before getting wet. @sjrobin I’ve thought of throwing a short, 40-60# short leader. I think the line is still a factor though. @Pierson I don’t own a 10


----------



## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

How about one of those leader rings i’ve read about. I think they are supposed to help. I may be way off base. Never used them


----------



## Camren (Aug 1, 2016)

I fish a lot of poppers in the spring here in the north east. Cross Current glx 10wt. AirFlo sniper (30ft head, grossly overweight). 40lb, 30lb, 20lb, with a bite tippet sometimes.

This is not a pleasurable rig to cast, BUT it’s a dedicated popper rod for the most part and it handles those duties with authority. 

Also, these are large 4/0 poppers in the Bob’s Banger style.

To add to another post above - I have cast poppers with success on the grand slam taper as well in lower line weights/smaller poppers.

On a related note, I recently started using the the double barrel popper heads. They are great. A lot of pop in a much smaller package.


----------



## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

Well that does it @WillW! Looks like you have an excuse to shop for a new 10wt. You're welcome


----------



## H_Reid (Jan 12, 2018)

SA Grand slam lines on my 9 & 11wts throw poppers great. The shortest leader you can get away with the better of course. 2/0 poppers on the 9wt and the more giant ugly popppers on the 11wt for jacks. Hard mono leaders.


----------



## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Mono leader. 60/40/20. 6’-3’-2’. 10wt definitely makes things easier. With a 9 and BIG poppers, you’ll probably need to open you loop a bit and increase your line speed. Feather the line out with your freehand to get her to roll out pretty. Otherwise she’ll probably run out of energy and won’t roll as you want.


----------



## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

I'd be willing to bet that dragon tail is the issue. You got a big foam head with a wet sock hanging on it and even dry it's just going to create a lot of drag. I could see a 9wt line not having enough inertia to overcome the drag and weight of that popper to turn it over.

If you want to stick with it, I'd try shortening the tapered section of your leader and keeping the butt section long, like maybe 70-80% of the length. You could maybe try beefing up the butt section to 60lb but you may run into other issues at that point. But using a longer butt section could help transfer more of the momentum further down the line.


----------



## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

I've found a shorter piece of heavy mono leader with no taper is working fine. Lets face it, making a commotion is basically the point with these types of flies anyway right? I may add a short piece of lighter mono on the end and shorten the butt section to help with turnover but right now I'm using about 5 or 6 feet of 40LB mono tied with a nail knot straight to my fly line.


----------



## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Cut off the stupid dragon tail crap and put a rabbit trip or learn to double haul .

A lot of times throwing a big popper I want to be able to cast it as far a possible so I just roll with the big rod. If you really want to throw it on your 9 then get a spool of rio outbound and a shorter leader. FYI rio our sound is ashore short head over weighted by Nearly two sizes. 

Just loose the dragon tail.


----------



## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

A lot of casting problems can be solved by how you go about it... For small poppers, see photo of my Speedbug with a small #1 hook... all I ever hand my angler is an 8wt with a simple weight forward floating line...









For a big popper (or some big deerhair mullet pattern...) I'd want it on a 10wt or even 11wt, period (and that 10wt line would have a five foot butt section of 50lb mono to start with... the 11 would have five and a half foot butt section of 60lb mono...).

The trick with bigger poppers is one that eludes folks in the middle of a blitz when the fish are crashing everything right in front of you.. Simply position upwind of your targets so that the big bug has the wind behind you as you cast a big open loop to allow that wind to just sail the bug into position.... Learn to fish either straight downwind or at least across any prevailing wind and the bug will soar for you. Go up against the wind or with an angler struggling with their timing... and you're going to have a long day... and not much to show for it...


----------



## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

texasag07 said:


> Cut off the stupid dragon tail crap and put a rabbit trip or learn to double haul .
> 
> A lot of times throwing a big popper I want to be able to cast it as far a possible so I just roll with the big rod. If you really want to throw it on your 9 then get a spool of rio outbound and a shorter leader. FYI rio our sound is ashore short head over weighted by Nearly two sizes.
> 
> Just loose the dragon tail.


Hey man, don’t get pissy, I invented double hauling. Hope all is well with you buddy. Y’all are probably right on the tail, but I was given some so a couple got tied. The action is nice but lots of resistance. Not in the market for a 10 weight right now. I’m going to stick with my 9, see about improving the line/leader combo, then see what comes of it. The particular day things fell apart, I was not able to set up very well on the fish (wish I could’ve). Thanks for all the advice, very helpful.


----------



## GG34 (May 2, 2014)

It's got to be the tail. I cast the double barrel poppers with my 6wt just fine in the same size and my casting sucks .

I use the wulff btt saltwater line with a mason hard mono leader.


----------



## IRLyRiser (Feb 14, 2007)

Dragon tails get pretty heavy when wet. Maybe cut it down some.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

I tied some dragon tail poppers on medium double barrels about a year ago. They were garbage to say the least. 

Fished them once and either gave them away or trashed them and that was throwing a 10wt. The tails foul too much, and create way too much drag with that setup. They also get too waterlogged and sink the popper after a bit. I'm on jack popper v6.0 and I'll be going all articulated from now on I think.


----------



## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> I tied some dragon tail poppers on medium double barrels about a year ago. They were garbage to say the least.
> 
> Fished them once and either gave them away or trashed them and that was throwing a 10wt. The tails foul too much, and create way too much drag with that setup. They also get too waterlogged and sink the popper after a bit. I'm on jack popper v6.0 and I'll be going all articulated from now on I think.


I’ve been able to keep the tail from fouling by glueing a large anti foul loop into the fibers of the tail. I imagine everyone is right about the tail, & you about this specific combo.


----------



## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Step back on the leader to 6' or 7', increase the diameter of the line. You don't need huge poppers - small ones work just fine. Haul the crap out of it, shooting the last cast. They really only suck in the wind, but I don't use huge open face poppers much either. Heavier front tapered lines help to. Gradual tapered lines may be a bit tougher, but I really don't fish those so can't say. Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper turns over everything I put on it.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

One thing to try before you change anything, is try opening up your loops. By that I mean purposely throw your loops larger and not tighter. That's what really heavy flies or wind resistant flies require in order to be effective with them since they tend to create resistance to the direction you want them to go. By opening up your loops, it holds the fly up higher and longer. Also try this with overhead casting instead of side casting. Throw your back cast up higher as well. That will help.

So to widen up your loops, you can do that by not hauling so hard and also, throw a slight arch in your casting stroke on both your front and back cast. Another trick to try to open up your loops is is slightly roll your rod tip down at the end of each stroke to open them up.

Big bushy/ wind resistant flies and topwater bugs don't want to be thrown fast and hard. Slow your brain down and wrap your head around the fact that nothing you can do to haul any harder or speed your your casting stroke any faster will help. Instead, just slow down, open those loops up and let the rod do the work by allowing it to load deeper into the rod blank. ~Think~ "I'm pulling fly line and not pushing it" during your cast and you will see things starting to come together with your casting on those bigger bugs.

Be careful not to make your flies to big and long for the 9wt. I've seen guys using those giant dragon tail flies with the same trouble you and Caleb has been having. Try trimming them back and making them a little smaller. Also try using materials that don't absorb and hold water. Synthetic dragon tails are known to pick up and hold water. You almost need to false cast them a few times to ring out the water before you set up to distance shoot the fly line. That will get rid of a lot of water weight. Bunny strips are not really good for floating flies and tend to sink (contrary to what some may say!). They also absorbed water, which is not fun to cast on a lighter rod. 11/12? Ok, but not for a 9wt if you can help it.

Also, try not top snatch that fly up off the water. Slow long pickups will not shock the rod or quickly over load it, which is easy to do with a fly too big or too heavy. Even though you are switching your loops from tight thin loops to wide over head loops, try not to tip cast the rod, but instead slow your stroke down a bit and cause the rod to load further down the blank. That will create more energy to throw those larger flies. Roll your wrist thru the entire stroke, pushing the rod and burying your thumb in the handle, instead of at the end of the stroke. You can also add in a "drift" on both the back end and front end of each stroke, shooting a bit of line on each stroke.

When you shoot, Keep your target about 3-4ft above the surface of the water in front of you over the fish and your back cast up high behind you. As you shoot, don't let the line go out of your hauling hand but let it slide thru your hauling hand and stop it at the end your your cast and prematurely drop the rod. This will all help to unroll (unfurl) your leader and fly at the end of the cast.

Another casting method is using an oval cast or Belgium cast and be mindful to make sure your loops are staying opened. You can make that cast at a 45 degree angle to you on yout back cast and overhead on your front cast. Then on the shoot, do the above paragraph to help unroll the leader and that big fly all the way out there.

To do some other tweaking, coconutgroves is taking you in the right direction. Depending on how long your entire leader system is, you may need to shorten it if you are throwing exceptionally long leaders. I'd say 9ft total max length and can even go down to 7ft if needed. However, I'd consider keeping 9ft total length and going to hard mason, since that may be what is happening if your leader is collapsing on itself. So on your 9wt, using stiffer materials like hard Mason will help in that dept, while still floating. But be careful since mason is a larger diameter than mono. 40lb Mason is the diameter of 60lb mono or FC. So stick with 30lb mason with your 9wt. That will almost be liike 45lb mon, but stiffer than 50 mono. So I would use 30lb mason on the butt section, increase the length of it another foot, say 5ft, then 18" of 20lb mason and then use 24-30" of 16lb mason for your tippet or 20lb FC (my choice) to the fly or to the bite leader and then the fly.

You also might either want to try a Wulff BTT in a 9wt or what I really recommend is using a SA Titan (very big forward head) that will turn over heavy wind resistant flies with some authority. You'll be good with that.

Ted Haas


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I'd like to see a double barrel popper...please


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

permitchaser said:


> I'd like to see a double barrel popper...please


----------



## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

permitchaser said:


> I'd like to see a double barrel popper...please


Let me google that for you:
https://flymenfishingcompany.com/products/surface-seducer-double-barrel-popper-slider-body


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ahhh... yeah, what he said! ^^^^

I wasn't thinkin about including the fly!


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Well i dont know why they call it double barrel but looks like it could make some noise


----------



## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)




----------



## Barbs_deep (Jul 4, 2010)

10wt rod. Ditch the dragon tail and go with some long temple fox. Gives you all the profile and doesn't hold a ton of water. The smaller double barrels put out plenty of pop


----------



## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> View attachment 38716


Very nice. Utah, gimme 2


----------



## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

WillW said:


> Very nice. Utah, gimme 2


Would happily trade you a few for a few of those flexo type crabs you tie


----------



## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> Would happily trade you a few for a few of those flexo type crabs you tie


Fair enough


----------



## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Caleb.Esparza said:


> View attachment 38716


Is that a shadow or are you blacking out the mouth? This is my example that hopefully produces once the surf gets right.


----------



## Rustyrotor (Nov 7, 2017)

As the marketers are always telling us, there’s mono, and then there’s mono.

When I tie a leader for trouble flies, I try to use the stiffest mono I have lying around. That comes with its own baggage ie memory, your mileage may vary.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Surffshr said:


> Is that a shadow or are you blacking out the mouth? This is my example that hopefully produces once the surf gets right.
> View attachment 38806


That's just a shadow from my tying lamp, but I was considering painting the mouth red on a few of them just for kicks.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Will, have you tried any of those casting variations to see if that helped?


----------



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

WillW said:


> What line/leader rig are you using for big poppers? I’m throwing a cross current 9# 1 piece, leader is a 50-40-30 mono. Don’t recall the line & it is not in front of me. This particular rig doesn’t turn the fly over worth a damn. Ex: Med sized double barrel popper, 2/0 hook, dragonfly tail. I’m sure I could step up to my 12 weights but don’t want to tamper with my tarpon rigs. Thanks for any help


I finally got the 10 wt's out to try the double barrel poppers size medium. Two rods Loomis Pro 1 and Loomis Asquith, different lines Rio tarpon quick 10 ft leader and SA Grand Slam AMP 10.5 ft leader. Water loading from shore on a local lake. Forehand down wind, backhand in to wind. The heavier Rio tarpon quick was better turnover into wind but other than that both set ups were good for the double barrel poppers. I put one of the larger size poppers in the pic for comparison. The smaller version makes more than enough noise. A 40 # fluorocarbon bite for tarpon would work better with a shorter leader. I bought these poppers for reds but have not tried them yet.


----------



## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

I use the medium double barrels on my 10wt for bull redfish and jacks. Been meaning to tie some stuff in the small size for slot fish use but even the XS make enough noise and I can throw those with my 5wt @sjrobin


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

This morning, I threw an over-size popper on my 8wt in a spillway that I slid up on (we've been getting lots of rain, so some of the spillways are flowing). That Popgurgler was a cross between a popper and a gurgler (I came up with). I mainly only catch jacks with it (I think snook thinks it's annoying! Lol). It's big and bulky and should have been more suited for a 9wt and maybe even a 10. Anyways, I paid attention to the casting techniques I mentioned above and I confirmed what I said about opening up your loops. It worked!


----------



## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

Shortened/stiffened the leader, swapping materials helped also, & played with casting a bit. All good now. Still plan to tie up some tails just because I have them. Thanks for the feedback fellas. Bottom is the original & top v2


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

WillW said:


> Shortened/stiffened the leader, swapping materials helped also, & played with casting a bit. All good now. Still plan to tie up some tails just because I have them. Thanks for the feedback fellas. Bottom is the original & top v2


So just FYI, your popper on the top has a very long rabbit strip. It's really not the material for surface flies cause it will soak up lots of water and start to sink the fly. Also, since it's holding lots of water, it'll make it very hard to lift up off the water and cast for the first couple of false cast to ring out the water, especially for that 9wt, before it get's dry enough (remember water = weight) to shoot a decent loop. So that will over load the rod and cause problems, in which you are then trying to recover on each stroke for the first several cast. So I'd lose the bunny tail and go with a material that will shed water better and still keep that long and bulky profile, like chinese strung saddle feathers or some long Finn raccoon with the under fur pulled out or finally some long Hairline Extra Select craft fur. All those will have great movement in the water and hold less water, making it easier to pick up off the water. That will not shock the rod as much and make you casting a larger profile fly much easier for a lighter rod. I'm still agreeing with everyone else to lose the dragon tails, all though I've found a synthetic yarn that can be cut to look like a dragon tail, but not as tight and thick. So I'll check it out to see if it's any good and then let you know if it makes a good substitute.


Here's a popper I commonly throw that I make up on my own with buying popper heads.










Good luck!

Ted Haas


----------



## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Big popper v6.0
Flymen big game articulated shank, and a 1/0 varivas 2600v. 
Very sparse Yak fiber tail, some flash, and a couple sparse wraps of foxy brush to hide the connection between the shank and the hook. 

The key to my success so far with big poppers is using Yak fibers because they are easy to build a profile with minimal material and they shed water very well on the cast.


----------



## Cej2525 (Jan 22, 2019)

Old thread but wanted to add. I'm casting the Med size double barrel popper on a 7wt with a 7ft tapered leader then 2ft of 14lb fluorocarbon down to a #2 redfish crack. I'm using a SA Titan line and the main thing I found is you just have to slow down a bit and double haul the crap out of it. One of my best blind casting set ups.


----------



## hostage1985 (Feb 27, 2011)

What Ted and others said about slowing down stroke/wider loops. Fast and hard with a big popper is a shoulder surgeon's delight. Also think about importance of a weight balanced fly (popper) wood body vs. foam. Try it with a softer rod and you might be surprised.


----------



## david_corbin (Aug 24, 2011)

hostage1985 said:


> What Ted and others said about slowing down stroke/wider loops. Fast and hard with a big popper is a shoulder surgeon's delight. Also think about importance of a weight balanced fly (popper) wood body vs. foam. Try it with a softer rod and you might be surprised.


Take this for what it's worth as it's not been mentioned. We fish FL but more rivers/streams for smallmouth and steelhead throwing poppers and large streamers with short 3 weights to 7 weight 11 foot switch rods and in between. OPST came out in the past couple of years with short "Commando" heads loop to loop coupled with their "Lazar" mono running lines and floating or sinking tips. Started last summer with a Loomis 9' 5 weight. Combo can be overhead cast or single handed Skagit cast in situations where there is zero room to back cast. Took some getting used to but amazing and has changed the game. Loaded a Loomis Shorestalker for beach snook and will never look back. Google OPST and see for yourselves.


----------



## GG34 (May 2, 2014)

david_corbin said:


> Take this for what it's worth as it's not been mentioned. We fish FL but more rivers/streams for smallmouth and steelhead throwing poppers and large streamers with short 3 weights to 7 weight 11 foot switch rods and in between. OPST came out in the past couple of years with short "Commando" heads loop to loop coupled with their "Lazar" mono running lines and floating or sinking tips. Started last summer with a Loomis 9' 5 weight. Combo can be overhead cast or single handed Skagit cast in situations where there is zero room to back cast. Took some getting used to but amazing and has changed the game. Loaded a Loomis Shorestalker for beach snook and will never look back. Google OPST and see for yourselves.


I just bought this system. Have yet to fish it. Does it work well with big poppers? Wait wt rod are you using in salt? I bought the 200 grain for my 5wt.


----------



## Cej2525 (Jan 22, 2019)

I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## david_corbin (Aug 24, 2011)

Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.





Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.





Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.





Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.





GG34 said:


> I just bought this system. Have yet to fish it. Does it work well with big poppers? Wait wt rod are you using in salt? I bought the 200 grain for my 5wt.





Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.





Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.





GG34 said:


> I just bought this system. Have yet to fish it. Does it work well with big poppers? Wait wt rod are you using in salt? I bought the 200 grain for my 5wt.





Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.





Cej2525 said:


> I'll start doing some research. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## david_corbin (Aug 24, 2011)

follow their suggestion for line weight for your rod, they will ask you specifically what rod you have and will suggest line weight and length, and running line. they know their shizz, don't second guess them, you are not the pro buyer, they are the pro's for the set up...then it's up to you to make it work given conditions. I don't work for them, I have bought and will buy their stuff. Game changers and SA/RIO and the rest I have had do not compare. Might find me wrong, but bet you won't on first toss. Check out their videos, particularly with Ed Ward, and one by D. Pinzcowski out of WI. Buy other stuff on the net a waste of time and money, unless you can toss a hundred feet into the wind like Krey could with half a rod. Late


----------

