# Elimination of Bimini Twists??



## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

I typically run a seagar premier 60blood40blood20slim60 Now I still run a huff for my loops.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

CALLING @Backwater , calling @Backwater , come in ted, are you there??
I got the match, whos got the napalm???


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I was surprised at how well an "improved blood" held up in my highly unscientific tests against a surgeons knot. You just double up the class tippet (without a bimini or anything), and treat the double line as a single line when tying a blood knot to the heavier bite leader.

Might have the give the Slim Beauty a shot, though.


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## Pierson (Mar 16, 2016)

Bonecracker said:


> I have used this knot the past few years and love this simplicity and ease of building my tarpon leaders!!


So which method do you use? There are quite a few variations online with doubling up the smaller line, and then doubling the wraps back down over the first wraps and several combinations of this. Some don't double up the line and some don't double down on the wraps. I am experimenting with this knot as well and would love to hear from people with more experience with it.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I use a bimini to double the line of the test tippet, then tie a double surgeon's loop in the doubled line for the butt and a slim beauty for the bite tippet instead of a Huffnagle.


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

I'm pretty sure Ted saw this when it was originally posted at 11:25 this morning..

....hes just still typing

Last season I was running a Bimini to the butt section, then an Alberto to the bite. Still made some of those up for this season, but I'm going to give the improved blood on the class a shot this year and see how they hold up.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Perhaps I need to practice my knots, but I hit upon something that simplifies a lot of these knots. I haven't had the chance to test it on a fish (weather really took a shit on my tarpon season last year) but manual tests have worked well.

Basically, I have either a 50 or 60# butt section, at the end I tie a double-overhand like I'm starting the Slim Beauty. Then I thread my class tippet of 16 or 20# through the figure-8 "bowl" a partially cinched down double-overhand creates. Then I tie a uni knot around the running line of the butt section. Partially cinch that down and then tighten the double-overhand as much as possible and then cinch the uni knot down so the double-overhand acts as a stopper.

From the class to the bite of 50-80# depending on water clarity and the size of the poons I'm seeing (rod weight of 10 or 12 plays in too) I simply do the reverse of above.

I should get some weights and test this a little more scientifically but I've pulled really damn hard on it before it failed and in all frankness I'm an abnormally large and strong human being even if I am a fat out-of-shape guy at this point in my life.


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

I am running Huff figure 8 loop on end of butt section to fly line - 5-7ft 50-60lb Hard Mason- Slim Beauty 20-26" 16-20lb FC tippet to butt end - Slim Beauty again to 60lb FC shock leader 15-20" and end with Huff figure 8 to fly! 

So F8-SB-SB-F8-fly


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I use both bimini/ hufnagle (on all my heavy tippets - 20lb hard Mason to 80lb fluoro) and the Slim Beauty on my various setups - all for tarpon... For small fish up to around 40lbs it's just 20lb hard mason in a Slim Beauty to 40lb fluoro... for medium fish (less than 80lbs bigger than 50lbs...) it's a toss-up... sometimes the bimini/hufnagle, other times just a Slim Beauty using 20lb hard Mason spliced to 60lb fluoro... 

In the dark waters we normally fish in we can get away with a heavier leader than folks fishing clear waters -like the oceanside of the Keys.... There is a drawback and it's simply this... The Slim Beauty without having a bimini to double the line first just isn't as strong as that class bimini/hufnagle connection is, period... Some days you can get away with it, but hook into a big fish (or just one that's willing go to the wall with your gear...) and you'll end up on the short end pretty quickly.


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## brianacnp (May 18, 2011)

Blood (B) and improved blood (IB) for connections. Butt to bite. 
50-(B)-30-(IB)-16-(IB)-40 or 60


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

50 blood to 30, blood to 20, bimini to bite secure with SB.
But if Bob says Hufnagle I might replace my SB


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I know most of the words you all used, but I don't understand any of it


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

jmrodandgun said:


> I know most of the words you all used, but I don't understand any of it


We just made that shit up to mess with you.


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## Ruddy Duck LA (Jun 23, 2017)

I don't fish tarpon so I'm lost. Why is this knot necessary? Or a Bimini? Is it because the diameter of the lines connected is so dissimilar? Would an Albright work?


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

I will say that the tarpon guides I’ve fished with use the improved-blood knot where they double up the class to the butt and the bite or the slim beauty. Not the Bimini and Huffnagle. 

I know Bill Bishop swears by the Bimini-Huffnagle connection in “High Rollers” but Andy Mill recommends the improved-blood in “A Passion For Tarpon” although his system is a bit more involved and he’s using a 15’ leader. 

15’ might be needed in ultra-clear water ocean-side in the Keys but it’s not needed in dirtier water IMHO. 

But, all that being said I’m still a big tarpon (say 70# and up) neophyte with fewer than a dozen brought to hand.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Lots has been written about the bimini twist over the years - but recently I've read more than a bit of mis-information about it... so here's the basics...

Knots for the most part are always weak spots in any fishing line or leader.... You can get away with that in the heavier portions of a tarpon leader - but not in the critical class tippet to bite tippet (shock tippet, some call it...) or in the class tippet to heavier butt section... Hooked up to that really big fish and knowing that you can pull right out to the limits of your class tippet means that knots get kind of important...

The reason for a bimini twist to double that class tippet (the weakest portion of any tarpon leader - or any big fish leader for that matter) is that the bimini isn't a knot in the strictest sense of the word. It's actually rope making technique - and just as strong as the line itself as a result - not a weak spot at all... I use 20lb hard Mason routinely for my tarpon leaders and with a bimini tied in first (which doubles the line) I go from 20lb to 40lb (the doubled portion) with no weak spot at all. That allows me to tie up to a heavier line with full confidence that whatever knot I employ that connection is at least as strong as the 20lb tippet (stronger is even better...). 

That's the reason for using a bimini twist at each end of a class tippet - no other, period. Yes, a bimini twist is a pain until you master tying one up. My learning curve was accelerated many years ago when I agreed to fill an order for one hundred tarpon leaders (in pairs -joined by a double length of shock tippet, looped together to form a continuous chain- then wound onto an empty spool so that you could pull off one at a time, as needed) for a tournament angler who could afford to have it all done for him. 

The materials for that order were 15lb hard Mason joined to 110lb Maxima leader (like I said years and years ago - think it was 1980.. you could get away with that sort of stuff back then...). Each leader needed two bimini twists, a hufnagle to connect the bite tippet (110lb heavy bite tippet) and a surgeon's loop at the other end. After I made up a special jig to measure each leader I bought a batter's glove for my strong hand and got to it.... At the end of the order my strong hand was bit bigger - but I could do a bimini with my eyes closed.... 

Yes, you can "get away" with easier, quicker connections but a really big fish will take you to school if you're not careful... To this day all of my casting gear (spin or plug casting) starts out with a doubled line of about two to three feet - done with a bimini twist (20 turns for mono line, 40 turns with braid - since braid will slip and fail without the extra turns...) that doubled line, if it needs a leader (never bothered with leader for bonefish rigs - unless we were using ultra-light 6 or 4lb line.... the doubled line itself was the leader....) then you add a two foot section of 30, 40, or heavier fluoro leader material - but that's another deal entirely... Basically though a properly tied up bimini twist slides through any guides like it was just part of the line so when you cast any lure or bait the line inside your top and first guides is doubled - very handy for casting hour after hour and not having to worry about any wear on that critical end of your line...

Hope this helps


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## Tidesright (May 4, 2018)

I use a Bimini for smaller class leaders more specifically 12# I’ll ferrel the double side and then do and improved blood knot to the butt section and then again an improved blood knot to the bite/shock.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I stopped using "class tippets" a few years ago. My "tippet" is usually 30#. I am not fishing for records and I can put more heat on a fish and worry less about breaking the class tippet and knots are less of an issue.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

Not to derail, but of all of these replies only one mentioned a 2-piece butt section. I'm still going like 40 to 30 to class. Do most of you tie one size butt straight from the fly line connection to the class?


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

mwolaver said:


> Not to derail, but of all of these replies only one mentioned a 2-piece butt section. I'm still going like 40 to 30 to class. Do most of you tie one size butt straight from the fly line connection to the class?


My butt section is 60 -> 40.


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## Tailer (Jan 10, 2017)

If you're fishing 12lb or 16lb you're going to want to use a Bimini. If you're using 20lb you might be able to get away with eliminating the Bimini and you probably don't need one if you go past that. Like Bob said above, the Bimini allows you to double your class tippet with no degradation in line strength. The lighter your class tippet the more you need your class connections to be 100%. Being able to put max pressure on a fish and end the fight as quickly as possible is important for the health of the fish when released. I test every one of my tarpon leaders before they go in my bag and I've never had a Bimini fail. Can't say the same for my Slim Beauty's though!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

mwolaver said:


> Not to derail, but of all of these replies only one mentioned a 2-piece butt section. I'm still going like 40 to 30 to class. Do most of you tie one size butt straight from the fly line connection to the class?


Re-read the thread most of us use 50-30-20-bite that's 3 pieces plus bite


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## Tidesright (May 4, 2018)

I either go 60-40 or 50-40


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Wait...what?? Sorry guys, I've been tied up and don't even have time to read the thread and all yous guys comments. 

About 20 years ago, I decided to eliminate one of the bimini's in the tippet that I picked up from ole Stu (old school stuff where you have bimini's on both end of the tippet and a Huffnagle (Steve Huff's knot) tied to the shock/bite leader). Basically, the tarpon were getting harder to eat a fly and I wanted to show "less" to the fish, but I still wanted the shock absorber of both bimini's (which mostly comes in handy when the fish is boat side). So my tippets went FC and longer than normal (about 30-36" to push my butt leader and any biminis further away from their face) and I tied in a 30-40 turn bimini (later dubbed the "Magnium Bimini) on the butt section side of the tippet and then tied the business end of the tippet to bite leader directly with an albright (which I later changed it to an alberto knot). So the idea is to help be stealthy and get those eats while still having that safety shock absorber to protect my tippet at boat side.

So there you have my poon tippet to shock rig. For the rest of it, refer to the tarpon leader thread pinned up top of this forum.

Ted Haas


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

The Bimini will slip if not tied correctly and that will cause it to break. A spider hitch is a better option if tying quickly because it’s easier to tie. All that said I use Slim beauties for my fly leaders (60-30-tippet) and they worked for the one 30lb tarpon I landed so far lol.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

A bimini is a great knot if you know how to tie it correctly. But since I have caught them on the standard IGFA class setups I just don't have a need to do that anymore. And by using a stronger tippet section knots just aren't an issue. Shoot you can use a 75% knot in a 30# leader and its still stronger than the best knot in the world tied on 20#.


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

Had Harry Spear over to the house for dinner on Saturday evening and I had strategically place a few spools of old mono on the table to discus this same topic! So basically I asked Harry what he preferred and he recommended the tried and true Bimini/Huffnagle connection on both ends of the tippet sections. I showed him the Slim Beauty and liked the connection but asked me why change something that works?? Oh Well!! I guess I will NOW call it the Slim Ugly knot!!


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

Backwater said:


> Wait...what?? Sorry guys, I've been tied up and don't even have time to read the thread and all yous guys comments.
> 
> About 20 years ago, I decided to eliminate one of the bimini's in the tippet that I picked up from ole Stu (old school stuff where you have bimini's on both end of the tippet and a Huffnagle (Steve Huff's knot) tied to the shock/bite leader). Basically, the tarpon were getting harder to eat a fly and I wanted to show "less" to the fish, but I still wanted the shock absorber of both bimini's (which mostly comes in handy when the fish is boat side). So my tippets went FC and longer than normal (about 30-36" to push my butt leader and any biminis further away from their face) and I tied in a 30-40 turn bimini (later dubbed the "Magnium Bimini) on the butt section side of the tippet and then tied the business end of the tippet to bite leader directly with an albright (which I later changed it to an alberto knot). So the idea is to help be stealthy and get those eats while still having that safety shock absorber to protect my tippet at boat side.
> 
> ...


Ted do you mind on going into a little more detail on the Alberto knot?? 




I assume you double your 60lb bite section and wrap with your 16-20lb tippet to form this knot??


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Str8-Six said:


> The Bimini will slip if not tied correctly and that will cause it to break. A spider hitch is a better option if tying quickly because it’s easier to tie. All that said I use Slim beauties for my fly leaders (60-30-tippet) and they worked for the one 30lb tarpon I landed so far lol.


Spider is not nearly as strong as a Bimini. With practice, a Bimini can be tied quickly and properly for nearly 100 percent breaking strength. I'm with Harry. Why mess with something that's tried and true?


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Well not to burst y'alls bubble. But when I fished with Harry last summer you'd be quite surprised at our leader setup. I think Harry was likely talking about for those fishing true IGFA leader setups. For everyday fishing not so much.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Bonecracker said:


> Ted do you mind on going into a little more detail on the Alberto knot??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of the things that I don't like about the slim beauty is the tag of the bite leader (yes, typically, it's 50-60lbs) points forward and have found that it catches slim and grass. If clipped back to short, the pressure of the tippet can roll the half hitch and become un-done. Plus the half hitch in the 60lb is not as slim as an albright or even an Alberto.

The Alberto video is a good illustration of how the knot should be tied. Normally on regular inshore fish, a well tied albright works fine. But with big tarpon, to get them in quickly, you have to put a tremendous amount of pressure on the fish while it pulls back a tremendous amount of pressure, adding in the sudden burst of pressure with head snaps and shakes. All of which will find any flaws you your knots and rigging. What the alberto knot does is it adds a lock with the wraps crossing over itself to help avoid knot slippage and add strength to the knot. I've run my own test and I can assure you the knot has a higher breaking strength than many other knots out there, while still maintaining a small package. Hence the reason that I personally use it for my go-to tippet to bite leader on a big fish rig.

I totally respect Harry and his opinion on sticking what works (many follow suit with that idea and that's fine). He's certainly a mentor in this niche of the sport. But I seem to have a warped sense tinkering around and seeing what I little things I can do to improve my odds and feeling a sense of added accomplishment if I can improve those areas. It's like flies and equipment. If I have something they'll eat and know I can have success with it, then I want to see what else I can get them on. 

Ted


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Zika said:


> Spider is not nearly as strong as a Bimini. With practice, a Bimini can be tied quickly and properly for nearly 100 percent breaking strength. I'm with Harry. Why mess with something that's tried and true?


I still tie the Bimini twist all the time with braid or backing but use blood knot or Slim beauty for tarpon leaders. I also use 30lb as my tippet so it doesn’t really matter as much to me as if I were using class tippet. The Bimini requires hand on main line, tag in teeth, something to put loop around and hand pushing knot together. Spider hitch just requieres two hands.. I leadered a 120lb fish with spider hitch last weekend in the Keys so it’s been field test approved. A poorly tied Bimini will slip and break before a correctly tied spider, blood or Slim beauty almost every time. If both tied correctly a bimini will be stronger than a spider but not by much. https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/strongest-knot-for-doubling-braid/


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

ifsteve said:


> Well not to burst y'alls bubble. But when I fished with Harry last summer you'd be quite surprised at our leader setup. I think Harry was likely talking about for those fishing true IGFA leader setups. For everyday fishing not so much.


Understand and not knocking simplicity and stealth. Nothing wrong with alternate rigs/knots if you understand strengths/limitations. I've always followed IGFA specs though (rep for North Florida). Not likely to ever set a tarpon weight record (or redfish for that matter) but don't want to be regretting it if a fish of a lifetime does decide to eat. Probably couldn't bring myself to kill one though. More likely to apply for a release or length record and those still have to be caught according to IGFA rules.


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