# Winston Rods acquires Bauer



## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

A poster on the reel thread mentioned Bauer reels as being great reels but not really marketed well. That may change as Winston just announced their acquisition of Bauer.

http://blog.winstonrods.com/r-l-winston-rod-company-acquires-bauer-fly-reels/#more-1396



> Winston Rod Company in Twin Bridges, Montana is pleased to announce today that it has acquired Bauer Premium Reel Company in Ashland, Oregon. Winston, the world’s leading fly rod company using Boron/Graphite composites, broadens it’s high end product offering with Bauer, one of the world’s top fly reel manufacturers.
> 
> 
> “There are a lot of very good fly reels,” says Winston Chairman and Owner, David Ondaatje, “but there is something extraordinary about Bauer that made us want to be more involved over the long term….a beautiful product, good people and leading edge technology.”
> ...


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I am a huge fan of Winston rods - been using them for years and they are my primary weapon of choice. Very interested to see how this acquisition goes.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Winstons are my only fly sticks too, but I'm not sure if this is such a great idea to try to marry a mid-range reel with a high-end rod. Both companies have very good coverage in the West, but both have poor representation here in FL; I don't see how that's going to help either company in one of the better markets. 

I don't think either company is large enough to leverage the integration to the level anticipate. I hope Bauer doesn't become a money pit for Winston as they try to upgrade and expand the limited Bauer product line. Tibor would have been a more suitable bride (or the other way around).


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

Frankly, I don't think you can dismiss Bauer as a mid range reel, I think their designs and quality are as good or better than the mentioned brands and their service is absolutely the best.
JC


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

True Jon. I always thought of Bauer as a good mid range reel. But they slacked in keeping up with the times and marketing. As Blue Zone stated, they may just be a money pit for Winston.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Backwater said:


> True Jon. I always thought of Bauer as a good mid range reel. But they slacked in keeping up with the times and marketing. As Blue Zone stated, they may just be a money pit for Winston.


I'd imagine Winston sees them as a "value added" proposition. They probably feel Bauer is under-marketing and under-valued. Winston isn't shy about marketing, I see their ads in every fly magazine or website out there. I've never seen Bauer ad anywhere.


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## fishn&flyn (Oct 23, 2015)

Winston in my opinion makes the worlds finest rods, nothing else has that Winston " feel". I agree they do not market themselves in the east as well as they could/should. Bauer made some very nice reels but agree they didn't keep up with the Tibors/Abels/Nautilus/Hatch. I would bet Winston will try to make some innovations in the Bauer line to make the reels better able to compete with the other high end manufacturers. Does anyone remember when Abel made some rods? I do, I had one with the newly introduced Super 8, needless to say that same reel now hangs on a Winston BII MX. I think it's gonna be tough to make a reel much better than what's available now and sometimes it's best to stick with what works, I don't imagine myself running out replacing my Tibors and Abels with Bauers just because Winston now owns them.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

jonrconner said:


> Frankly, I don't think you can dismiss Bauer as a mid range reel, I think their designs and quality are as good or better than the mentioned brands and their service is absolutely the best.
> JC


You are right. I should have written "perceived (as I did) mid-range". I just had a look at their site and it's indeed pretty nice stuff, maybe short on the higher weight offerings. I do like the "Winston Green" reel in the announcement photo. Between the two they only have 4 retailers in FL; they at least need some pro staff down here. If I were a guide, I'd be on the phone with Winston right about now letting them know that.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> I'd imagine Winston sees them as a "value added" proposition. They probably feel Bauer is under-marketing and under-valued. Winston isn't shy about marketing, I see their ads in every fly magazine or website out there. I've never seen Bauer ad anywhere.


I think you're right, Bauer has never marketed their reels at all since the nineties when they were starting and had good representation in the northeast, since then it's dwindled. Almost everyone I know who's been in the game a long time owns at least one of the old Mackenzies and is still fishing it, my original one is 20 years old.
They have the best clutch design of anything out there an NO fiddly little springs, pawls, screws etc that cause mechanical trouble. If Winston gives them a push, I'm sure they will compete with the popular brands.
JC


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

fishn&flyn said:


> Winston in my opinion makes the worlds finest rods, nothing else has that Winston " feel". I agree they do not market themselves in the east as well as they could/should. Bauer made some very nice reels but agree they didn't keep up with the Tibors/Abels/Nautilus/Hatch. I would bet Winston will try to make some innovations in the Bauer line to make the reels better able to compete with the other high end manufacturers. Does anyone remember when Abel made some rods? I do, I had one with the newly introduced Super 8, needless to say that same reel now hangs on a Winston BII MX. I think it's gonna be tough to make a reel much better than what's available now and sometimes it's best to stick with what works, I don't imagine myself running out replacing my Tibors and Abels with Bauers just because Winston now owns them.



Humm, some good points. But whenever I see a rod company try to design, improve and market reels, I just don't see that end of their business doing so hot. Winston should just stick with what they do best, making a fine "freshwater rod!"


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Humm, some good points. But whenever I see a rod company try to design, improve and market reels, I just don't see that end of their business doing so hot. Winston should just stick with what they do best, making a fine "freshwater rod!"



Ted,
I kinda think they'll leave the reel business to the Bauer family. Good point on FW rods! At least for those whose taste leans in that direction, but they are popular in culty sort of way!
JC


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

Backwater said:


> Humm, some good points. But whenever I see a rod company try to design, improve and market reels, I just don't see that end of their business doing so hot. Winston should just stick with what they do best, making a fine "freshwater rod!"


Ted,
Had that not come from you, I probably would have taken exception. Back in the day I started my affair with fly fishing in Idaho _freshwater_ and Winston had a dealer in my town so that's how it started. As I moved into saltwater, I had a dalliance with an early Orvis boron which I didn't like and it's been the Winnies ever since.


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## TylertheTrout2 (Apr 21, 2016)

Tell you what, I still have my first fly reel from 15yrs ago...a Bauer M3 Superlite, still have it on my 7wt and it works great, have a M4 Superlite too on an old T3 8wt...don't plan on getting rid of them anytime soon, the damn things are super simple and they work!!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

TylertheTrout2 said:


> Tell you what, I still have my first fly reel from 15yrs ago...a Bauer M3 Superlite, still have it on my 7wt and it works great, have a M4 Superlite too on an old T3 8wt...don't plan on getting rid of them anytime soon, the damn things are super simple and they work!!


Tyler, would that be a tip flex or a mid flex T3?


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## TylertheTrout2 (Apr 21, 2016)

my 8wt T3 is a mid flex (great casting rod, love it for beating the bushes)...also have a 9wt and 10wt T3 that are tip flex...love my little T3 arsenal...had em for 13+ years now and still going strong!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

TylertheTrout2 said:


> my 8wt T3 is a mid flex (great casting rod, love it for beating the bushes)...also have a 9wt and 10wt T3 that are tip flex...love my little T3 arsenal...had em for 13+ years now and still going strong!


I liked the 8wt in the tip flex but preferred the 10wt in the Mid flex.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Backwater said:


> Humm, some good points. But whenever I see a rod company try to design, improve and market reels, I just don't see that end of their business doing so hot. Winston should just stick with what they do best, making a fine "freshwater rod!"


You would have gotten a Dislike if there was a button for it!  I've fished Sage, Loomis, St Croix, TFO and always come back to Winston for my salt rods. Have weights 6, 8, 9, 10 and 12. Love them. I do have a 9 wt NRX that I throw too, but found the 8 wt too stiff for close range fish (yeah yeah, casting tricks can be done. But I take novices on my boats, I need something a little more forgiving for that red that pops up at 25 feet).

Having a reel doesn't necessarily mean the rod end is in trouble. It's about diversification. And if revenue growth is stagnant, or the company needs more diversified income, additional products can bring it. There are good rod companies that offer both rods and reels. Is Sage's rod business in trouble? Or was it when they added reels, which btw, I never see anyone fish?

The people at Winston know what they are doing - they haven't been pressured to roll out a new rod each year and market it like it is the new evolution in rod design and technology. That is a revenue strategy as well. These are high end rods with a lifetime warranty, a small part of the market are the only ones upgrading each year. That is similar to Apple consumers - a small portion always buy the next version because they want the coolest.

They make great freshwater rods too, but don't discount their salt rods without serious consideration. They just don't market and advertise like some of the other brands.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

coconutgroves said:


> You would have gotten a Dislike if there was a button for it!  I've fished Sage, Loomis, St Croix, TFO and always come back to Winston for my salt rods. Have weights 6, 8, 9, 10 and 12. Love them. I do have a 9 wt NRX that I throw too, but found the 8 wt too stiff for close range fish (yeah yeah, casting tricks can be done. But I take novices on my boats, I need something a little more forgiving for that red that pops up at 25 feet).
> 
> Having a reel doesn't necessarily mean the rod end is in trouble. It's about diversification. And if revenue growth is stagnant, or the company needs more diversified income, additional products can bring it. There are good rod companies that offer both rods and reels. Is Sage's rod business in trouble? Or was it when they added reels, which btw, I never see anyone fish?
> 
> ...



I did the "Freshwater" rods  just for you and Blue Zone, coconutgroves!  You know I was just kidding and just teasin ya! 

Their saltwater rods have their place. The trout guys love them because there is not a whole lot of transition going from fresh to salt. I would say the feel of them is more of a progressive action and a moderate fast rod than an ultra fast rod, which there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has their taste and style in what they want out of a rod, and Winston meets a need and a niche.

I cut my teeth on a saltwater mod fast rod and then went to fast and then ultra fast. So I do like the action of a very fast rod. However, the older I get, the more I've been able to slow the tempo down and now I can enjoy the more progressive action rods with a thorough understanding on where their place is in the whole picture of fly fishing. So you are right that they work out great for shorter loading. I also prefer a more mod fast or progressive rod when I sit in a chair (like a bass chair) and freshwater fish for bass and bluegills. I like that way of fishing so much so, that I'm rigging up my new inside mangrove skiff with removable swivel chairs, especially fishing solo with a TM. I also like the same action rod when I fish at night with a clear line. It's hard to see the clear line, which I like to use for dock light fishing, but it's easier to feel what is happening with your line when you have a rod with a little more feel to it.

As far as the reels go, yea you're right. Sage sells a lot of rods but I don't think they sell that many reels. On the flip side, Loop sells both and sells more reels than rods. I have to say Bauer had a good reputation back in the 90's, especially with the northern fly fishermen. Not so much here in Florida tho. They also did a lot of advertising with "The Fly Fishermen" magazine. I've seen them, played with them and fished them a couple of them with some of the people who would go out with me to fish, but I never owned one.

So taking that reel in and the whole company in general, modding the reels to fit the market trend and re-launching them would take about as much effort as launching a whole new reel company, except you don't have the liability of the whole business to support and continuing to carry on. Then, your main market will only be those people who knew of the reel back in the day (or loyal customers). They have a lot of work on their hands re-launching the company and the expenses marketing it. And at the end of the day, I still don't think they will be successful getting an old dog to do new tricks. They should have just bowed out and let them stay in the geriatric ward of the fly fishing industry.

By no means am I wishing them any ill-will on Winston, but if they can pull it off, it will not be without some real work and effort and a lot $$ towards marketing to the older guys that have went into a different direction with their reels, as well as getting the younger guys to understand and explain who they are/were and the history of where they came from..... AND why they should buy from them now!

Ted


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Winston rods for me say trout and a blue wing olive. Who knew they made saltwater rods


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## Palma Sola (Jun 5, 2016)

I so agree. Winston’s Rods have always been first rate and I continue to support them.
I think poorly of Sage for discontinuing rods just after they claimed they were finest rods in their class. Whaaat? It’s Winston and Loomis for me now. Bauer reels; by the way are top rate. They never bought their way into the marketplace .. they perform equally as well as the other top reel makers .. I hope the two companies thrive together l


coconutgroves said:


> You would have gotten a Dislike if there was a button for it!  I've fished Sage, Loomis, St Croix, TFO and always come back to Winston for my salt rods. Have weights 6, 8, 9, 10 and 12. Love them. I do have a 9 wt NRX that I throw too, but found the 8 wt too stiff for close range fish (yeah yeah, casting tricks can be done. But I take novices on my boats, I need something a little more forgiving for that red that pops up at 25 feet).
> 
> Having a reel doesn't necessarily mean the rod end is in trouble. It's about diversification. And if revenue growth is stagnant, or the company needs more diversified income, additional products can bring it. There are good rod companies that offer both rods and reels. Is Sage's rod business in trouble? Or was it when they added reels, which btw, I never see anyone fish?
> 
> ...


So


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## flysalt060 (Aug 5, 2012)

Have Bauer’s and Tibors i use in salt. When Bauer lost Chip as the rep in southeast they lost market. As did sprit river and Whiting


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## Greg Allison (Mar 13, 2018)

The guy helping run Winston is now the person who started Redington, and worked for Hardy a few years ago when they introduced some of their best products (proaxis, zenith, fortuna). I think they should be fine. 80% of the fly market is trout anyway, and Bauer makes a fine line holder for trout fishing. Plus Bauer just upgraded all their sales reps. I am just glad the company did not go belly up, and has someone to retain those jobs.


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