# holy wide gheenoe wannabee



## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

this thing is crazy wide.....


but then i saw some less than optimal rigging, and decided to pass.










they shoulda glassed it in....

still very impressed at how wide they are, but can still clearly see gheenoes are better built


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## rw29914 (Jan 14, 2011)

Looks like the original Fin & Feather hull


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Fit and finish might be crap, but how was the price?


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

9-10 g's i believe w/ a new 25 4stroke merc and very basic electronics and trailer


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

So they're less $ than a new LT25, wider, but not rigged as nice?


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

nope, the LT25, rigged as similar as possible will come out to $5730 with trailer, without motor. whats a new merc 25 go for? 3000?

$8730 for newly rigged LT that is very nice, or 9-10g's for RH that is wider and has bolt on center console, rivets that stick way too far out, and looks like a big bathtub. Gheenoe for me


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## Captain_Shane (Mar 27, 2007)

Cheesy looking console


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

New merc 25's depending on options are $3700 to $4500 MSRP, plus prop, plus rigging (figure another grand).

Plus electronics and install, however basic they may be. 

Just a quick look through CG's website at the current crop of LT25's available (some have 2-3 year old motors it seems) and looking through the *used* boats listed here looks like the asking price is more than fair. 

And this is a bigger boat, right?

?????

Granted, I looked at the RH boats several times, and while I think they have some great ideas, the look of a few things just wasn't my taste and I never actually bought one. But after having probably 10 or so gheenoes I think they're in the same league without a doubt. I don't think we want to start a new thread with all the gheenoe issues do we? 

They're all cheap boats with chopper gun construction. Scrape the gelcoat off yours, mine and everyone else's and look at it, the simple fact is that they are all paper thin and you don't need to shine a flashlight at it to see right through the hull!     

Bottom line is, nobody's buying a river hawk or gheenoe and stating it's a quality built boat. People are buying them because they are cheap (well not the $10k models for sure), easy to tow, light and can be portaged, efficient to run and can get into places other boats can't, like areas without boat ramps, etc. 

I know there's a bunch of gheenoe followers here, but I don't think it's worth slamming a comparable brand because of what now appears to be a fair price for a new boat. 

Maybe the console isn't your thing but there are people out there that buy (and love) boats with like that, and pay 2-3X's the price of this hull for them.

And let's face it; "rivets that stick way to far out"... A rivet is a rivet is a rivet. Just like the ones on all my gheenoe rubrails, bow caps, etc etc etc.

There is a lot of anti-river hawk sentiment on here, and a thread started simply to discredit the new model doesn't help. It's a comparable (identical?) boat to a gheenoe for crying out loud!

Embrace it and realize neither is heads and tails better than the other. If this were a river hawk crowd, we'd be seeing posts the exact opposite sentiment as the original post.

-T


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

well said Mr. T 
-


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

> New merc 25's depending on options are $3700 to $4500 MSRP, plus prop, plus rigging (figure another grand).
> 
> Plus electronics and install, however basic they may be.
> 
> ...



dayyuum i ruffle your feathers easy.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

i've looked at em thru the fence at millers and they seem very roomy for a big a$$ canoe looking boat


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

wider would sure be nice..


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree with everything Tom said, some here know I'm not a huge fan of gheenoes anymore. Not because of the boat itself, but I don't understand why they charge so much since the construction really hasn't changed since they were first build. For what CG charges these day you can easily go over to ankona. Also keep in mind a bigger model costs more money, if CG made a super style boat like this they would easily cost over 10k with minimal rigging. 

All that being said, I think this demonstrates that there is a huge hole in our microskiff market these days. Outside of jonboats you really can't buy a basic cheap hull anymore. Yes you can still buy an original gheenoe, but there are alot of people who would like to see other options. 
Like if someone started making a basic jonsen or mitchel skiff, a basic bench model that you could buy cheap (under 1k) and make how you want........ok rant off ;D


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

We can't agree on everything , but that being said Here's my take ... You have to factor in costs of running a business . Electricity , Insurance , Salary etc ... You Can't just look at materials and say Oh that boat Costs too much ... You Just paid almost 1k for your stuff . 

And there is the liability factor for selling an Un Finished Boat . I asked a boat company and they explained why and I'm good with it ...

I run a one man Service business ... If I had to run a new truck it would kill me ... Haven't taken a Salary in an many years :-(

We'll just agree to disagree and It's all good 




> I agree with everything Tom said, some here know I'm not a huge fan of gheenoes anymore. Not because of the boat itself, but I don't understand why they charge so much since the construction really hasn't changed since they were first build. For what CG charges these day you can easily go over to ankona. Also keep in mind a bigger model costs more money, if CG made a super style boat like this they would easily cost over 10k with minimal rigging.
> 
> All that being said, I think this demonstrates that there is a huge hole in our microskiff market these days. Outside of jonboats you really can't buy a basic cheap hull anymore. Yes you can still buy an original gheenoe, but there are alot of people who would like to see other options.
> Like if someone started making a basic jonsen or mitchel skiff, a basic bench model that you could buy cheap (under 1k) and make how you want........ok rant off ;D


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> You Just paid almost 1k for your stuff


Yes I did, for marine plywood, high grade epoxy laminating resin, and quality fiberglass cloth, tape and tools. If I was using a mold, the release, gelcoat, cheap polyester resin, and chopper glass all togeter would have cost just a few hundred. I did price out some boats recently for a buddy who thought I still had my highsider and wanted to buy it, Brand new the original 15'4" gheenoe highsider is still only $980, a price I think is reasonable for what you are getting.



> And there is the liability factor for selling an Un Finished Boat . I asked a boat company and they explained why and I'm good with it ...


You can order a bare hull from gheenoe and CG to outfit your self. And I wasn't talking about a bare hull, I said a basic bench model that could be easily modified. No liability issues.

People will never fully agree on issues like this, there are die hard gheenoe fans, who will bash a riverhawk just cause it has a different sticker on it, and then there are people who won't cause brand isn't as important to them as other things. 

Now don't get me started on the whole built in outrigger design...... ;D


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

If I had 10 grand laying around I would surely try it. For now, my $1300 highsider still catches fish and I could almost bet, with a modified bathtub, I could still catch the same fish. Its all about being on the water and getting away from work.


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## costefishnt (Dec 11, 2006)

lol


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

I would try the boat, i mean its a glorified canoe, how bad could they mess it up? Its like tryin to mess up salad.. I agree with everyone here though. And firecats statement about how there is a big hole in the microskiff price market made me think because there really is. Ive had people at the gas station wanting to write me a 6000$ check for my custom skiff. I denied bc it was like the third time ive taken it out but all it was was an old mitchell or something that i put decks in and tricked it out.. To me it seems like if it becomes popular you can charge alot more for the same thing that used to cost half that when the company first started.


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

[smiley=spinning-on-head.gif].


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> If I had 10 grand laying around I would surely try it. For now, my $1300 highsider still catches fish and I could almost bet, with a modified bathtub, I could still catch the same fish. Its all about being on the water and getting away from work.


You, my friend, have hit the proverbial nail on the head! 

-T


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> But after having probably 10 or so gheenoes I think they're in the same league without a doubt. I don't think we want to start a new thread with all the gheenoe issues do we?
> 
> They're all cheap boats with chopper gun construction. Scrape the gelcoat off yours, mine and everyone else's and look at it, the simple fact is that they are all paper thin and you don't need to shine a flashlight at it to see right through the hull!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the spirited post!

*Speaking as a moderator: *For the record. In the early days of Microskiff I went out of my way to try and get Riverhawk to participate in this forum. We have always gone out of our way to be inclusive for Riverhawk owners (and all microskiffs). Yes individuals on this forum have different opinions and do voice them once and while but it (almost?) never goes past the mentality of a Ford vs Chevy argument. 

*Speaking as a forum member* It is no secret that I am a proud Gheenoe owner. I don't agree with your statement that a Gheenoe is a cheap boat. IMO that they have figured out a way to use less expensive construction methods and still produce a quality product. YES, I AM STATING THAT GHEENOES ARE A QUALITY PRODUCT! I am a personal testament to the quality because I beat the living s*&t out of mine and it holds up to the abuse all day long. My boat goes where very few others will go and of all my toys which include classic Jeeps, Harleys, and a few other nice toys, the Gheenoe get more complements than all of them combined. 

But the real reason I believe that Gheenoe is different and the reason I will defend them all day long boils down to customer service. Gheenoe does nothing but stand up for their products and work with their customers when they have issues. (Because all manufactures have problems from time to time.) They are an extremely active member of the larger boating community, have a forum for their owners, a rally, they donate several boats and money each year to various charities (usually with no recognition). 

That's the difference between a company that has been a family business for 35+ years and built 60,000 plus boats and a company that has changed hands over the years and only builds a few boats each year and never seems to be involved much. 



TomFL, I value your input and the lively discussion. Thank you for letting me speak my opinion too.



Riverhawk, If you are reading this, I wish you nothing but good fortune and success. I look forward to you one day getting more involved. It can only be good for your boat owners and the larger community. Good luck.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Deleted......nothing to see here....


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2011)

> > If I had 10 grand laying around I would surely try it. For now, my $1300 highsider still catches fish and I could almost bet, with a modified bathtub, I could still catch the same fish. Its all about being on the water and getting away from work.
> 
> 
> You, my friend, have hit the proverbial nail on the head!
> ...



LOL! You can be a crabby old guy Tom! Gheenoe's can be made with a pretty nice fit and finish or just standard! IMO, they are excellent at what they do and paying more money for a "Utility skiff" is just dumb.

You're whole argument is nothing but double talk and makes zero sense! Find me a hull anywhere that can complete with price, functionality, durability and simplicity?

If you believe in your statement you wouldn't be sinking "god knows" how much money into that Sea Vee and would have been fishing offshore since August.  :


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## joshuabward (Apr 3, 2010)

My good friend is a salesman for our local boat dealer that will remain unnamed. We spend countless hours BSing about boats up at the shop and between us we have probably seen over 100 different manufacturer's boats and out of those only a select few have had the fit and finish that you would expect for the price.

In my opinion from seeing both gheenoes and river hawks in person I would say they are built in an almost identical manner. Poly resin and chop glass may be cheap but they are plenty strong together, obviously because most all boat manufacturers still use it. Epoxy, kevlar, bi-ax may be all stronger and lighter but if you don't need that then why use it. It would be like putting brembo carbon kevlar calipers and rotors on your minivan, sure it will work better but are you going to take your minivan to the racetrack.

I also get sticker shock at some things because I think to myself, I can build that for less than half of what it cost. The problem with that is companies must pay employees, insurance, utilities, supplies, taxes.... and then still make a profit to stay in business, all things that a lot of us fail to consider.

A 1000 dollar new boat seems almost impossible even if the materials are only 200 bucks yet gheenoe still does it.


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## mudd_minnow (Oct 13, 2010)

Well, I like it. Especially when I don't have anything right now.
Here is a song you can sing...all together now....

I like..........
gheenoes that will float,......
or any old flat bottom boat,....
one's that can carry my sandwich and beer,...
and one's that I can easly steer,....
And I love fishin from a boat, listen to the frogs croke, early at sun rise,...that brings tears to my eyes..... 
and I love fishin...when I have a boat, so boys don't you glote, or critisize the other little skiffs boats, just remember when you didn't have anything to fish from,and you were feeling hum drum.... :'(

Remember this thought,...

I had no shoes to where on my feet and I was feeling sorry for myself until I met a guy that had no feet.

Ford or Chevy......There all good......they get us from point a to b and hopefully back safe and sound. 
Mudd Minnow


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Sounds like someone busted out the Captain and Coke a little early tonight ;D


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2011)

This whole thread boils down to just one word "CHOICE" and thank god we still have one in this country.


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## mudd_minnow (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah.....CHOICE.....That's why I and other defended this country..So enjoy the fruits everyone....The Captain and Coke is on me.....Ha! Ha! Ha!....


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

ENCORE! ENCORE! :


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

encore? no please no more!

and to whom it may concern, i honestly was not looking to "bash" Riverhawk, it was the first time i had ever seen multiple RH's in a row. i was simply looking through the lot and took some pics for guys like me who had wondered what the differences may be. i once again, and not stating gheenoe is god, but i would stick with gheenoe over them bc cosmetic issues and th hull lines. $500 into a 9,000 rig isnt a big deal when we look into the broad stroke of things.

once again, sorry for wading panties.


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## HialeahAngler (Dec 18, 2008)

the only problem I have seen in recent years is not the boat companies, it's the people. they pull on the "wanker" of companies because they think it makes them so cool. "oooh, I own a gheenoe, or oooh I own a maverick," etc etc. A boat is a boat whether it be a simple aluminum Jon to the most custom flats boat. It's made for FISHING! Not for you to stick a fly rod in your mouth and say, "ooh look at me, I have a G-Loomis." Geez, who gives a flying rats patootie?! Reminds me of school girls running out to buy Paris Hilton's latest purse.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

Here's the bottom line: 

Both boats are comparable. 

Tom, there is a chance RH boats could have passed on your invite to the forum since you (who actually started this website) are a *close personal friend of the owners of both CG and Gheenoe*. Personally, if I were them I would have done the same. The anti-RH sentiment runs deep here, and the responses to this post are akin to that. 

I think you're a great guy and would share a boat or blind with you any day, but you have to objectively see that side of it. Walk in RH's shoes sorta thing. 

As far as the quality issue, it doesn't do anyone any good to mention anything other than the fact that we all have differing opinions on quality. 

I never bought a gheenoe because I felt the fit and finish or quality of construction was incredible.

I bought them because they served a purpose that I needed a solution to, and for the price I bought them for they did the job very well.

Did it bother me? *No*!

Did I still buy more? *Yes*! I absolutely loved my little 13', and my old LT25 I really miss!

Do I still own one? *Yes!*

Would I buy another? For the right price, *absolutely*!

Lastly, on a comical note, you can bet money if I say something is black, TheBrazilNut will ALWAYS say it's white. ALWAYS. He's like my backwards shadow, lurking for a chance to pop out and block some sunshine.

He'll also look to take a cheap shot at me whenever possible. This whole anti-TomFL sentiment stems from me not accepting his ridiculously low offer on my LT25 when I was selling it. He wanted it and made an offer of roughly half what my asking price was. I politely passed on the offer and sold it to another buyer for my asking price. 

Brazilnut did his best to tell me it was worth only 1/2 my asking price, even going through the trouble of making a list and breaking it down item by item and telling me how little each option was actually worth. In his haste to lowball, he actually forgot to add the motor to the list.  :-?

Oddly, when I post here today about even the possibility that a competitor might have equal or more value in a pricepoint, he is quick to point out the value of gheenoes.  :-? So there's a complete 180 for ya!

Apparently he took my passing on his lowball offer personally when I sold the boat to someone else, and like a child *actually resorted to calling me names and threatening to kick my keister if I ever showed up to a rally or event through PM's here on the forum!!*   

I just can't think of anything that is funnier than threatening someone over the 'net, unless it's a continuation of that childish behavior in every response to one of my posts. 

Brazil, the seavee is under construction. You're an excellent observer. A work in progress, that ideas come and go, thought about, and then mods made if the desire is there. There are custom touches going on.  

Dude, I'm fishing on another boat in the meantime. There is no rush to get it wet! It's not like I'm sitting on the sidelines with my hands in my pockets!!

Lastly, how's your new boat coming?  You were close to pulling the trigger about a year and a half ago on a boat, right? How's she fishing these days?


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## HialeahAngler (Dec 18, 2008)

ooh.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2011)

> Here's the bottom line:
> 
> Both boats are comparable.
> 
> ...




Tom,

You're LT you where selling over a year ago has nothing to do with my responses towards you! You are also only telling 1/2 the truth about that deal. Let it go! If you feel some reason to explain you're side of the story to everyone and take a crap on me well that's you're issue not mine.

The real problem is you posting the Sea Vee build on this site! The boat is turning out very nice, but you fail to understand that this site is called "Microskiff"! There are tons of other sites for you to brag and post updates of this boat.

The intent of this site is to provide info on small skiffs, builds, history and help.

Darin


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

> Tom, there is a chance RH boats could have passed on your invite to the forum since you (who actually started this website) are a *close personal friend of the owners of both CG and Gheenoe*. Personally, if I were them I would have done the same. The anti-RH sentiment runs deep here, and the responses to this post are akin to that.


For the record my friendship with Pugar over at Custom Gheenoe came about a few years after microskiff.com and I have made many friends in the skiff industry/community. 

My involvement with the customgheenoe.com's website and forum also happened after microskiff.com had become successful. The Custom Gheenoe site was essentially abandoned and I was able to help. I probably would have done the same for most anyone who asked back then. 

Search this forum for my posts regarding Riverhawk and you will see nothing but polite diplomacy and my best attempts at impartiality. I also think that I have maintained that stance for all vendors who have participated or been mentioned. But that is all history. This site has been under Jan's management for a couple years. We share a common vision on keeping microskiff's forum civil and constructive. Thats probably the reason he keeps me around as a moderator. 

I hope you understand I have no agenda other that promoting the boats and style of fishing the we all love. There is room for all of our differences if we recognize our common interests first. And there is certainly no reason for anyone to feel I have any negative sentiments towards them.


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

*Note to all:

The inclusion of larger boats in the microskiff discussions has been a debate for a long time. The designs, maintenance, and modification experiences all have a relation between boats large and small and a great deal of knowledge can be learned by that. This prompted management to include a section for that purpose.

Going forward, please advise the forum administer with  any personal issues you may have with another member so that they may be addressed properly.

Thank you for your cooperation.*


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2011)

> *Note to all:
> 
> The inclusion of larger boats in the microskiff discussions has been a debate for a long time. The designs, maintenance, and modification experiences all have a relation between boats large and small and a great deal of knowledge can be learned by that. This prompted management to include a section for that purpose.
> 
> ...



The problem with that, is Microskiff is a "niche" forum. Lots of people have been referred to this site from many other sites including Texas and CA forums solely for info on small skiffs.

IMO, once you start venturing outside your "niche" overall credibility gets lost!


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2011)

> Here's the bottom line:
> 
> Both boats are comparable.
> 
> ...



Tom! Anyone who has ever met me on this forum would all agree I'm I very laid back guy. Most of this is nothing but BS! Get over yourself and check back into reality! 


BTW, I'm like half your age and would never threaten to "kick you're kiester"! I have always read your posts and respected your opinion, but within the last year all of your threads/posts are negative or political!


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

OK guys--- I am a rh owner---customized B60---(very similar to G"s Lt)---the factory is great to wrk w/ esp. the shop foreman.

I have owned numerous small boats from gamefisher's to backcountry's and ran larger boats most of my life till I retired from wrk and boats.

Not.---I went into withdrawal and bought a rh to fish the lakes of n. ga. because it was the least expensive fiberglass hull I could find and power. It is simple and functional and rot proof.

Would I take it into open waters off Choko-- no-- but I would not do it in a GH, either.

Pretty boats cost you because of man hours and does not mean u get a better boat.

How much do you need to put into a "skiff" to feel comfortable in your own skin?

If you can afford an egret or hells bay more power to you but it does not make the beer any colder or more appreciated.

Personally, I just like to get the job done, have fun and invest the money I saved. 

Remember where you come from.

A cold one is needed for all


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

> > *Note to all:
> >
> > The inclusion of larger boats in the microskiff discussions has been a debate for a long time. The designs, maintenance, and modification experiences all have a relation between boats large and small and a great deal of knowledge can be learned by that. This prompted management to include a section for that purpose.
> >
> ...


Actually, this wasn't up for discussion and was directed to all, but I feel it needs to be addressed again. 

The reason for adding the Bigger Boats section was to keep the microskiff aspect of this website intact and up until now has not been an issue. We all learn from others and that is what a big part of this web site is about. What would cause us to loose credibility is when we allow attacks against other members. So please to all, lets stay on topic as Topnative has demonstrated.


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## HialeahAngler (Dec 18, 2008)

> OK guys--- I am a rh owner---customized B60---(very similar to  G"s Lt)---the factory is great to wrk w/ esp. the shop foreman.
> 
> I have owned numerous small boats from gamefisher's to backcountry's and ran larger boats most of my life till I retired from wrk and boats.
> 
> ...


thank you sir. I'm, glad someone else feels the way I do. btw, I would prefer the wider boat over the narrow one any day. ;D


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2011)

> > > *Note to all:
> > >
> > > The inclusion of larger boats in the microskiff discussions has been a debate for a long time. The designs, maintenance, and modification experiences all have a relation between boats large and small and a great deal of knowledge can be learned by that. This prompted management to include a section for that purpose.
> > >
> ...



I don't want to personally attack anyone or call them out! That is way most members and lurkers love this forum.

My issue is that this could slowly become a major issue when you stray from what the site was intended to be.

When you want to learn everything about Gheenoe's they have a forum, ECC has a forum, Maverick has a forum, Panga and Boston whaler have their own as well. If you want info on all sorts of boats/skiffs there are plenty of those.

This is the only forum that I know of that is dedicated to "small skiffs". 


*I think myself and most other forum members including Jan would like when people are looking for info on small skiffs(all brands) that the only site with the best info, posters etc...............is Microskiff*.


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## costefishnt (Dec 11, 2006)

what was the question?


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

something to do with one boat better than another I think.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

OK! Never Mind the ENCORE!  Keep it cool Gents. I think a few of you need to hit the water.


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## HialeahAngler (Dec 18, 2008)

> OK! Never Mind the ENCORE!   Keep it cool Gents. I think a few of you need to hit the water.


and possibly a bong.

disclaimer: HialeahAngler does not condone drug use.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

> something to do with one boat better than another I think.



hey did you guys know my fin & feather  LTC. will  slip thru chop that will leave R.H.  and dare is say it.............gheenoes  :-X in pieces   ;D


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## costefishnt (Dec 11, 2006)

my boats the best. WOT @ 45mph across 4' chop.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> my boats the best. WOT @ 4.5mph across 4" chop


Had to rephrase to be truthful about mine... :-[     [smiley=happy.gif]


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## admin (Nov 8, 2005)

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1286371422


> I did not write the following points. I read this on another forum and found it very fitting. I have altered it from it’s original format to better fit our forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mudd_minnow (Oct 13, 2010)

NOW you guys have gone and done it....You made big Mama mad.....We all know the saying...If mama ain't happy then NOBODY is happy......Someone is going to get a 
[smiley=spank.gif]

Play nice now...
Ok back to the Question.......MMMMM [smiley=1-doh.gif] I forgot....Ok well, let's just all sing my song...

OK...
Ready...
I Like..... DA DA DA DA DA... Doo Doo Doo Doo Deee Laaa Laaaa LAAAA Laaaa LEEEE POOKIE CHOOO and FISHING...... when I get my boat.....

Question?
Where did all the smilies come from? especially this one...
[smiley=stfu2.gif] This is verry funny....

Do you know where the term HONKY comes from? It's not a racial or at least it didn't start that way.....
I'll tell you tomorrow.......Stay tuned to this channel same bat time, same bat channel........


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

The purpose of the post was to stop the toxic environment that negative posts were taking, not to kill the topic being discussed. We ask that everyone please take a moment to review your post before hitting the "Post Message" button. 

Remember microskiff is about ALL skiffs, marine products, conservation and community. Our niche is most certainly the small skiff market, but we realize that our members may own more than one boat. Thus it was a management decision to include a special section for our members larger boat projects. This was done for two reasons. One was to separate it from our core discussions so to not make a confusion about our niche. But more importantly we saw the value in the these larger projects as many of the methods, products and tools used would also translate down to some of the projects on smaller skiffs. 

We appreciate your input and for being a great contributor to or site.

Thank You
Capt. Jan


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

It all boils down to Credibility ... Who stole who's design ... Who profited from it Etc ...

I was just enlightened to a Back Stabbing Wiesel (NOT a FORUM MEMBER) who used his fame and fortune to keep a lot of people off the water and severely restricting access to us all ... 

does not affect us too bad but when you make laws that boats have to Idle in 8-12" of water to go anywhere you have cut off their access ...


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> does not affect us too bad but when you make laws that boats have to Idle in 8-12" of water to go anywhere you have cut off their access ...


many of us, including myself, agree with these restrictions. If you have access issues then you need to change the way you are boating (ei. get a smaller boat, start wading, kayaking, or launching elsewhere). It's a shame there are still so many people powering through the flats and causing damage.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

I will PM you the article .... has Nothing to do with "Powering through the Flats"

My Little boat is probably less than 100 pounds ... Got weigh it though ....


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

ok send it over, you have a 13er right? think it's right at 100lbs if I remember.


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## FSUfisher (Jul 16, 2007)

> i've looked at em thru the fence at millers and they seem very roomy for a big a$$ canoe looking boat


Where's Millers at? I want to see one...


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## FSUfisher (Jul 16, 2007)

> We can't agree on everything , but that being said Here's my take ... You have to factor in costs of running a business . Electricity , Insurance , Salary etc ...  You Can't just look at materials and say Oh that boat Costs too much ... You Just paid almost 1k for your stuff .
> 
> And there is the liability factor for selling an Un Finished Boat . I asked a boat company and they explained why and I'm good with it ...
> 
> ...


Dave,

I think that's the most rational, sensible post you've ever made here, lol.  [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]

BTW, after wasting a lot of time of my life reading the entirety of this caustic thread from what I still believe is a very cohesive forum, I've come to a conclusion.

I spent most of the day today watching some of my counterparts arguing over stupid details like tolerances of .010 of an inch over the length of a bridge (yeah, we're engineers). I realized, as I have before, that the whole principle of getting caught in these stupid details is asinine. Seriously, it's not worth it. Our founding fathers didn't have a forum to argue over anonymously- they gathered and synthesized their ideals in person, and the results turned out pretty well I must say. I've seen different persons whose characteristics I respect duke it out in this thread so far. I implore each of you to spend an extra minute to evaluate your post before you hit the post button so we'll keep this place a fun and enthusiastic environment to share ALL things boating amongst each other.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

X2

Well said and [smiley=bravo.gif]


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

> > i've looked at em thru the fence at millers and they seem very roomy for a big a$$ canoe looking boat
> 
> 
> Where's Millers at? I want to see one...


 millers marine on u.s.301 in ocala fl,


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

thats where i was taking the picture, dare i say it...... picking up a part for my mercury....... whats better, mercury or mariner?


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Yamaha


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