# New Yamaha F70 vs Suzuki DF60A, performance comparo



## Surferguy

I'll be buying a new motor very soon for a Tracker Grizzly boat I bought. (New boat, welded alum, 18'L X 60"wide at transom bottom, 7 deg deadrise, 800 LB dry hull wt).
Boat is weight sensitive so want to keep motor in the Suzuki 60 weight class. The Yamaha 70 is in this weight class, and would provide 10 more HP. Or, would it?

Is the Yam 70 a "weak", or true, or "powerful" 70? Is the Suzuki 60 a "weak", or true, or "powerful" 60?

I can get the Suz 60 significantly cheaper, and they have the "Gimme 6" warranty/service plan available if bought before June 30. Yamaha does not have YES warranty promo currently, so I would either have to wait to buy, or buy it myself, which would add $?? to the motor purchase price.

Thanks for input.


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only

In southeast La. Delacroix, lots of commercial rigs with the Suz Engines and lots of lower units off for repairs. Just viewing the issues here.............


----------



## fjmaverick

Love my f70. No complaints about power. I also liked the larger prop selection available with the f70.


----------



## jonterr

fjmaverick said:


> Love my f70. No complaints about power. I also liked the larger prop selection available with the f70.


Suzuki all day!!!


----------



## Str8-Six

I debated between these two for my skiff too. F70 is quieter, and has better prop selection. I like the hose flush connect better on the F70 and the proven reliability. Suke is less expensive to connect to NMEA network from what I've heard, lighter, performance should be very similar, and it is 2k less. I got the Suke just because I couldn't justify paying the extra money. Also I wanted the lightest 60. Happy so far.


----------



## fjmaverick

Str8-Six said:


> I debated between these two for my skiff too. F70 is quieter, and has better prop selection. I like the hose flush connect better on the F70 and the proven reliability. Suke is less expensive to connect to NMEA network from what I've heard, lighter, performance should be very similar, and it is 2k less. I got the Suke just because I couldn't justify paying the extra money. Also I wanted the lightest 60. Happy so far.


I went yamaha because I had the guages and controls and was repowering. 

The new style suzuki guages look great but the old ones were not something I wanted to put on my boat.


----------



## Limp Shrimp

F70 has an extra cylinder and more displacement, theoretically should have more power.. reliability wise, I think they are very close... It's up to you if the extra money is worth it for the Yami..


----------



## Surferguy

Thanks for the replies so far - great info. So far, doesn't sound like the Yam would offer a dramatic performance advantage.

RE prop selection: A Suzuki dealer/mechanic I know says I can use any prop that can be used on a Merc, Suz or Yam as long as it has the replaceable hub and proper thrust washer (get ones that fit Suz prop shaft), I checked a couple of prop manuf websites and this appears to be true. I was aware of the limited prop selection issue from when I owned DF115s back in 2000, but this appears to have been pretty much overcome with newer props that have replaceable hubs. What do you guys think of the Turing Point props? 

RE pricing: Got a really good price on the Suz 60, which includes "Gimme 6" warranty and alum prop (I know the last 3 yrs is not a true factory backed warranty like you get w/ Yam YES). The closest price I've gotten on the Yam 70 is $2K more, with no warranty extension or prop, and to buy the extra 3 years of YES I think will be at least $600.

Re reliability: I've owned both (Yam F150s and Suz DF115s) and had excellent service from both. I like the "no timing" belt and the offset powerhead on the Suz, not that the belt service interval on the Yam is that severe or anything. Yams maybe had slightly better corrosion resistance (if you use in salt water like I do), not that you couldn't keep the Suz controlled, if you stay on top of your maint like I do (I'm near fanatic as I don't like being stranded, and never have been).

I think the black of the Suz might look a little better with the "grassland camo" paint on my boat.


----------



## MariettaMike

The Suzuki marketing department knows consumers still have reliability concerns and is why they are still offering the Gimme 6 warranty to offset that concern. Considering Suzuki didn't come out that long after Yamaha tells me those concerns are real.

Don't get it twisted, the F70 is a better engine that is also used in the F60 and the Merc 60. Putting a 90 lower unit with 2.33:1 gears on it is where all the prop options came from.

Hundreds of flats boats that had two stroke 90 Yamahas have been successfully repowered with F70's with an acceptable decrease in top end and no increase in draft.

Hundreds of flats boats that had two stroke 70 Yamahas have been successfully repowered with F70's with an acceptable increase in draft and no decrease in top end.

You can't find anyone that's had a real problem with a F70, and that's why they're worth $2000 more to me.


----------



## Surferguy

OK, so now you've got me more interested in the Yam F70.
MariettaMike, you say "Putting a 90 lower unit with 2.33:1 gears on it is where all the prop options came from." Does the F70 come stock with this lower unit ?

Someone give my a line on where I can get the best pricing on a Yam F70 in Florida or south Georgia (preferably central Florida). Depending on when the next YES promo starts, maybe I can wait to buy, as it will take a while for me to put the rest of the boat together and I already have another boat I can use until the new is ready.


----------



## zmgsvt

What Mike said. Your getting what you pay for with outboards.


----------



## mtoddsolomon

I had the option of either on my skiff, but honestly the for the extra cost for the yamaha you won't noticeably gain any HP, Torque, or reliability. I believe someone put one on an Evox and they weren't thrilled with the performance vs the zuke 60.


----------



## MariettaMike

Surferguy said:


> Does the F70 come stock with this lower unit ?


Yes, Its the only gears they've ever offered.

28T/12T=2.33

http://yamahamc.partsandwarranty.com/SyndicateNav.cfm?NodeID=1705297&Page=1


----------



## Str8-Six

mtoddsolomon said:


> I had the option of either on my skiff, but honestly the for the extra cost for the yamaha you won't noticeably gain any HP, Torque, or reliability. I believe someone put one on an Evox and they weren't thrilled with the performance vs the zuke 60.


What prop are you running on your Suke 60?


----------



## mtoddsolomon

@Str8-Six 11.75x15 Zuke prop, it has, however, been modified by pluff mud and oysters as of late


----------



## Str8-Six

mtoddsolomon said:


> @Str8-Six 11.75x15 Zuke prop, it has, however, been modified by pluff mud and oysters as of late


3 blade?


----------



## mtoddsolomon

Str8-Six said:


> 3 blade?


Yessir


----------



## MariettaMike

mtoddsolomon said:


> I had the option of either on my skiff, but honestly the for the extra cost for the yamaha you won't noticeably gain any HP, Torque, or reliability. I believe someone put one on an Evox and they weren't thrilled with the performance vs the zuke 60.


BS!
Jus say'n.


----------



## East Cape

For every increase of 10HP you gain 1-4 mph...
If your a Tamaha die hard the F70 is better than their own F60.
However Zuke and Merc are only 1-2 mph slower and have more plus' IMHO over the Yamaha F70.
If somebody wants torque or a tad more HP the 90hp will get them there but again only gain 4-6 mph more than a 60hp and yes, adding weight, cost etc as well
My .02


----------



## fjmaverick

A lot of big generalizations in this thread

The f70 has a bigger prop selection not because of interchangeable hubs but because of the gearing in the lower unit. The f60 is (24:13) 1.85:1
Where the f70 is (28:12) 2.33:1.

The f60 and f70 aren't comparable in performance or size (f70 is much taller). 

The f60 hasnt been redesigned in years and is heavy at 249lbs for its class. The f70 was redesigned over 5 years ago and is light for its class considering a 2 stroke yamaha 70 is 228lbs and the f70 is 257lbs


----------



## MariettaMike

East Cape said:


> However Zuke and Merc are only 1-2 mph slower and have more plus' IMHO over the Yamaha F70.
> My .02


Good to see you acknowledging an F70 will get more mph than a Zuke 60.

There are many Hells Bay Pro owners running F70's that get better numbers than the Zuke 60 test results from 2009 in this link

http://www.suzukimarine.com/~/media...at Works Co/Hells Bay Professional DF60A.ashx

My $2k

BTW I saw Stump bring a really nice tarpon to hand Saturday, and before he could even get back on the pole they had hooked up with another one and landed it too. He is really, really happy with the way the TM's were rigged on his Vantage than going the DIY route that another local guide took a couple years ago on his.


----------



## mtoddsolomon

MariettaMike said:


> BS!
> Jus say'n.


you can call bs all you want but like I said, I had the option of the f70 and chose against it. Look at Kevin's comments, if I could go back again I'd still get the zuke 60.


----------



## MariettaMike

fjmaverick said:


> A lot of big generalizations in this thread
> 
> The f70 has a bigger prop selection not because of interchangeable hubs but because of the gearing in the lower unit. The f60 is (24:13) 1.85:1
> Where the f70 is (28:12) 2.33:1.
> 
> The f60 and f70 aren't comparable in performance or size (f70 is much taller).
> 
> The f60 hasnt been redesigned in years and is heavy at 249lbs for its class. The f70 was redesigned over 5 years ago and is light for its class considering a 2 stroke yamaha 70 is 228lbs and the f70 is 257lbs


I think you're confusing the old T60 with the new F60.

Both the F70 and F60 use the same block, crank, and pistons and thus have the same displacement. The F60 has a smaller lower unit for 11" C class props, while the F70 uses a larger gear case and gears to turn 13" D Class props. (same as the old 90's)


----------



## fjmaverick

Thanks. Yes the t60 was the thing I removed to make room for my f70.


----------



## coconutgroves

New Water recommends the zuke 60 on new Stilts. They must like performance they've seen.


----------



## fjmaverick

After talking to a few skiff builders at shows I sometimes wonder if there is any incentive from brands to hang one vs another. Im not sure if it is motivated by price point or by bonuses but it seems a lot less merc and yamaha are being "recommended" in the skiff market and a lot more suzuki and tohatsu. 

One builder was telling me they are all on the same street in japan and they are all the same motors. Ive seen the old 2 stroke merc/yamahas and I havnt seen anything new like that.


----------



## Str8-Six

Get the motor that best suits your needs. If draft is most important, get the Zuke. If you make long runs in the middle of nowhere you probably want the Yamaha. And so on.. Price and draft was most important to me so I went wit Zuke


----------



## Backwater

No Bait / Lures Only said:


> In southeast La. Delacroix, lots of commercial rigs with the Suz Engines and lots of lower units off for repairs. Just viewing the issues here.............


Lots of mud in Delacroix being picked up in the lower unit intake. They should run Honda for that reason. 

I've always been a die-hard Yami fan because of reliability. But the Zukes are a great value and really like how quite they go in and out of gear. Plus I've found they get better fuel mileage and hole shot torque vs HP rating.


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only

Backwater said:


> Lots of mud in Delacroix being picked up in the lower unit intake. They should run Honda for that reason.
> 
> I've always been a die-hard Yami fan because of reliability. But the Zukes are a great value and really like how quite they go in and out of gear. Plus I've found they get better fuel mileage and hole shot torque vs HP rating.


My two neighbors in Delacroix have v6 Honda Outboards and both changed out for other brands because of block penetration corrosion. Both were over 5 years old but my old Merc and Yama are 20+ years old and no issues....


----------



## Captandy

Surferguy said:


> I'll be buying a new motor very soon for a Tracker Grizzly boat I bought. (New boat, welded alum, 18'L X 60"wide at transom bottom, 7 deg deadrise, 800 LB dry hull wt).
> Boat is weight sensitive so want to keep motor in the Suzuki 60 weight class. The Yamaha 70 is in this weight class, and would provide 10 more HP. Or, would it?
> 
> Is the Yam 70 a "weak", or true, or "powerful" 70? Is the Suzuki 60 a "weak", or true, or "powerful" 60?
> 
> I can get the Suz 60 significantly cheaper, and they have the "Gimme 6" warranty/service plan available if bought before June 30. Yamaha does not have YES warranty promo currently, so I would either have to wait to buy, or buy it myself, which would add $?? to the motor purchase price.
> 
> Thanks for input.


I battled with this on my Beavertail and went with the 60 Zuke. I am very glad I did as its a strong motor and has more power for jumping up than the 70 Yammie. I have always had Yamaha's but have been very very impressed with this motor and the warranty and price are better too!


----------



## fjmaverick

One thing... Never under power a boat.


----------



## Surferguy

Boat is rated for 60hp max (don't really understand this and Tracker can't explain it, but if you buy the "package" 1860 welded jon boat from them, which includes a crappy plastic console and stupid "sponsons" welded to the transom (which provide flotation for the bigger motors), they'll sell it with a 90hp). I think they limit the max motor on the bare jon due to the weight of the motors over 60hp, for which the Yam 70 is the only current exception.

Oh, and the yam 70s bigger selection of props is probably due not to it's gear ratio (Suzuki 60 has a lower gear ratio) but due to the bigger diameter of the lower unit bullet, for which there are probably alot more motors in this size range built by multiple manufacturers.


----------



## Surferguy

Still no input on where I can get a good/decent deal on a Yam F70, in Florida or south Georgia? I need to decide something by 6/24 to lock in the "gimme 6" if I go with the Suz 60.


----------



## MariettaMike

The USCG placard on a bare boat will have its "tiller" hp rating. Having a steering console moves rating up regardless of what material the console (or boat) is made out of.

This one goes from 90hp down to 50hp for tiller.
http://mosquitobayskiffs.com/buzz lite xtr.htm


----------



## pete_paschall

I hesitated to post this, as I realize it will come across as bashing to some, and that is not my intent. But I am currently building a skiff and was debating these two motors, and though the information I got and used to decide might be of some help...

One of my best friends is a Yamaha and Suzuki service tech with 20+ years experience. He had worked for another dealer/service place to start with, but then branched out and started his own business about 15 years ago. He grew his business to include sales of both brands, and I have bought both Suzukis and Yamahas from him the past. Being that he sells and services both, he has no real dog in the fight.

I say all that to let you know that I value his opinion, and based my decision in large part on what he said when I asked him the same question...

So when I asked him which motor he thought I should go with for my new build, he said the Yamaha f70 every day of the week and twice on Sundays. He gave several reasons, including corrosion resistance and longevity (I plan to keep this boat for a LONG time), but his biggest reason was customer service when it came down to resolving issues that WILL happen at some point in the life of the motor. He gave example after example of difficulties he and his customers have had with warranty work being taken care of. He even said he is contemplating dropping Suzuki due to the difficulties he and his customers have had. OTOH, in his experience, Yamaha bends over backwards to take care of issues. Again, he gave me several examples that included Yamaha paying for new lower units for customers who negligently used improper propellors from competing motor brands (this is a rare example of another dealer propping the boat incorrectly, but Yamaha still covered it).

With all that said, I'm paying extra for the Yammie. Plus, the gray will look better with my color scheme, which my fiancé digs... ;-)


----------



## Surferguy

Great input. If Yam just had a YES promo going on that would go a long way toward swaying me to the F70 - best info I can get is they may not offer it again until end of year - if I have to pay for 3 years YES, that's another $650. Still no input from anyone on a dealer that might offer a good price on Yam. I have at least 2 months of work putting the boat together,so can hold off on motor buy for awhile. Plus, a buddy has a 20 Honda tiller I can use until I get my motor. Plus I already have a 17' BassTracker I use for freshwater (gonna sell it when I get the 18' Griz ready - which I'll use for both fresh and salt). I really would like the extra 10hp and reliability (?) of the Yam, just having a hard time swallowing paying $2K+ more for these "upgrades".


----------



## jonterr

MariettaMike said:


> The Suzuki marketing department knows consumers still have reliability concerns and is why they are still offering the Gimme 6 warranty to offset that concern. Considering Suzuki didn't come out that long after Yamaha tells me those concerns are real.
> 
> Don't get it twisted, the F70 is a better engine that is also used in the F60 and the Merc 60. Putting a 90 lower unit with 2.33:1 gears on it is where all the prop options came from.
> 
> Hundreds of flats boats that had two stroke 90 Yamahas have been successfully repowered with F70's with an acceptable decrease in top end and no increase in draft.
> 
> Hundreds of flats boats that had two stroke 70 Yamahas have been successfully repowered with F70's with an acceptable increase in draft and no decrease in top end.
> 
> You can't find anyone that's had a real problem with a F70, and that's why they're worth $2000 more to me.


I have to call bull shit on that!!!
I had a new f70, had 65 hrs on it!
Slung a rod!
That's major!
Was under warranty!
Was gonna b 3 week wait!
I told em I didn't want it!
My opinion, they suck!
My 60 etech has more top end, and quicker hole shot!
U see people all the time with boats for sale with f70s with brand new top ends!!!
Just sayin!


----------



## coconutgroves

60 etec with more top end that an F70? I find that hard to believe. I like my etec 60, but top end is not it's strong point.


----------



## jonterr

coconutgroves said:


> 60 etec with more top end that an F70? I find that hard to believe. I like my etec 60, but top end is not it's strong point.


I don't care what u believe!
60 on my Cayenne is 3 mph better than my copperhead!
The f 70 that crapped out was on a CS


----------



## jonterr

jonterr said:


> I don't care what u believe!
> 60 on my Cayenne is 3 mph better than my copperhead!
> The f 70 that crapped out was on a CS


I will say, the Yamaha was super quiet, until the morning it started knocking!!!
That was an embarrassing load up!


----------



## el9surf

Just to play devil's advocate on Yamaha I had the single worst customer service experience with them of any product I have ever bought. It was a complete nightmare and they didn't want to step up to the plate on a 6 month old motor. That's a long story and not worth rehashing, but just realize poor customer service isn't specific to one brand. 

I have owned 2 Suzuki's including the 60 and had a great experience with both motors. My new skiff came with a new Yami 60 and so far that motor has been excellent for all 13 hours lol. It's a crap shoot to some degree. You might get a problematic motor regardless of brand and you might have a crappy service experience regardless of brand depending on who's involved in helping you. I wouldn't think too poorly about one or the other based on what you read here. You have no idea the circumstances that led to those poor experiences. 

I have friends that routinely neglect general maintenance on their vehicles and they complain about their car once something breaks. Same concept applies to boat owners.


----------



## YnR

pete_paschall said:


> I hesitated to post this, as I realize it will come across as bashing to some, and that is not my intent. But I am currently building a skiff and was debating these two motors, and though the information I got and used to decide might be of some help...
> 
> One of my best friends is a Yamaha and Suzuki service tech with 20+ years experience. He had worked for another dealer/service place to start with, but then branched out and started his own business about 15 years ago. He grew his business to include sales of both brands, and I have bought both Suzukis and Yamahas from him the past. Being that he sells and services both, he has no real dog in the fight.
> 
> I say all that to let you know that I value his opinion, and based my decision in large part on what he said when I asked him the same question...
> 
> So when I asked him which motor he thought I should go with for my new build, he said the Yamaha f70 every day of the week and twice on Sundays. He gave several reasons, including corrosion resistance and longevity (I plan to keep this boat for a LONG time), but his biggest reason was customer service when it came down to resolving issues that WILL happen at some point in the life of the motor. He gave example after example of difficulties he and his customers have had with warranty work being taken care of. He even said he is contemplating dropping Suzuki due to the difficulties he and his customers have had. OTOH, in his experience, Yamaha bends over backwards to take care of issues. Again, he gave me several examples that included Yamaha paying for new lower units for customers who negligently used improper propellors from competing motor brands (this is a rare example of another dealer propping the boat incorrectly, but Yamaha still covered it).
> 
> With all that said, I'm paying extra for the Yammie. Plus, the gray will look better with my color scheme, which my fiancé digs... ;-)


If you think Yamaha has good CS then you would be in the minority. Their history, especially with their big block motors, has been nothing short of embarrassing. Essentially refused to acknowledge any kind of problem and offering only half-a** solutions. 

I can't speak for Suzuki as I've been very fortunate with their motors but had prior warranty work done on an ETEC and BRP overnighted the part and the shop had it fixed the next day. No questions asked.


----------



## Surferguy

Talked to New Water, they said they like Yamaha and would, for my boat, recommend the F70. Still hunting a really good price.


----------



## MariettaMike

jonterr said:


> I have to call bull shit on that!!!
> I had a new f70, had 65 hrs on it!
> Slung a rod!
> That's major!
> Was under warranty!
> Was gonna b 3 week wait!
> I told em I didn't want it!
> My opinion, they suck!
> My 60 etech has more top end, and quicker hole shot!
> U see people all the time with boats for sale with f70s with brand new top ends!!!
> Just sayin!


WOW! You are the first person I have ever heard say they had a failure with a Yamaha F70. Seriously.

So I did a search to find a thread you started after you bought a 2012 Copperhead with a F70 in 2014.
https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2012-copperhead-70-hp-yammie-4-stroke.4880/

...and you had problems with the prop.



jonterr said:


> Hey guys! I know there are only a handfull of you out there with the same boat set up! I acquired this boat a few weeks ago! The motor has a 13 1/4 x 17 stainless 3 blade prop! If i run wot with tilt down, it digs the bow down really bad, if i run it at a smoothe position, wot, it runs 5200 rpm, at 35 mph, if i tilt it up a little more, i get 5600 rpm, at 38 mph, but porpises like a frikin 800 lb dolphin on a 4 ft wave!
> It just seems like the Yamaha should get more speed!
> At 5200 rpm , it seems like it has a lot more to put out!
> Any input appreciated, especially those of you with the 70 on a Copperhead!!
> Btw love the boat!


Then I found the thread where you sold it, and you said it had 98 hours when you bought it.
_"It has a 2012 yamaha 4 stroke, (only weighs 12 lbs more than e tech) with 115 hrs. Had 98 when i bought it in Feb!"_

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2012-copperhead.9022/

Is this the engine you had the problem with?


----------



## backbone

Interesting thread....


----------



## jonterr

MariettaMike said:


> WOW! You are the first person I have ever heard say they had a failure with a Yamaha F70. Seriously.
> 
> So I did a search to find a thread you started after you bought a 2012 Copperhead with a F70 in 2014.
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2012-copperhead-70-hp-yammie-4-stroke.4880/
> 
> ...and you had problems with the prop.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I found the thread where you sold it, and you said it had 98 hours when you bought it.
> _"It has a 2012 yamaha 4 stroke, (only weighs 12 lbs more than e tech) with 115 hrs. Had 98 when i bought it in Feb!"_
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2012-copperhead.9022/
> 
> Is this the engine you had the problem with?


No Sir!
I sold the Copperhead!
Then I bought a new Carolina Skiff, paid extra for an f 70, because I liked the one on the Copperhead!
Had 65 easy hrs on it!
That's the one that turned me against them!


----------



## jonterr

MariettaMike said:


> WOW! You are the first person I have ever heard say they had a failure with a Yamaha F70. Seriously.
> 
> So I did a search to find a thread you started after you bought a 2012 Copperhead with a F70 in 2014.
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2012-copperhead-70-hp-yammie-4-stroke.4880/
> 
> ...and you had problems with the prop.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I found the thread where you sold it, and you said it had 98 hours when you bought it.
> _"It has a 2012 yamaha 4 stroke, (only weighs 12 lbs more than e tech) with 115 hrs. Had 98 when i bought it in Feb!"_
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2012-copperhead.9022/
> 
> Is this the engine you had the problem with?


No Sir!
I sold the Copperhead!
Then I bought a new Carolina Skiff, paid extra for an f 70, because I liked the one on the Copperhead!
Had 65 easy hrs on it!
That's the one that turned me against them!


----------



## jonterr

jonterr said:


> No Sir!
> I sold the Copperhead!
> Then I bought a new Carolina Skiff, paid extra for an f 70, because I liked the one on the Copperhead!
> Had 65 easy hrs on it!
> That's the one that turned me against them!


Sorry
Didn't mean to double post!


----------



## MariettaMike

jonterr said:


> That's the one that turned me against them!


Did Yamaha or dealer try to weasel out of the warranty? How did you settle?


----------



## jonterr

MariettaMike said:


> Did Yamaha or dealer try to weasel out of the warranty? How did you settle?


The short version is, the skiff dealer I bought the boat from sells Suzuki!
I paid extra for Yamaha, because I liked the one I had previously. They did all my service, which was an oil change, ! When it crapped out, they said they weren't all that familiar with Yamaha! It would be 3 or 4 weeks before they could tear into it!
I was pissed off, so I told them to just make me an offer on a buy back!
I took a 5k hit, and swore I wouldn't have a boat or a Yamaha again! Ha!
I have 2 boats!
But no Yamaha!


----------



## MariettaMike

jonterr said:


> The short version is, the skiff dealer I bought the boat from sells Suzuki!


hmmmm...I'm guessing the long version is you tried taking it to a Yamaha dealer for warranty work after it failed, and they told you to pound sand because the engine wasn't installed or serviced by a Yamaha certified technician. So you blame Yamaha, while that Suzuki dealer may have been the cause of the problem.

$5k buys a lot of hate.


----------



## sjrobin

Yamaha two and four cycle engines have a proven track record all around the world's oceans.


----------



## jonterr

MariettaMike said:


> hmmmm...I'm guessing the long version is you tried taking it to a Yamaha dealer for warranty work after it failed, and they told you to pound sand because the engine wasn't installed or serviced by a Yamaha certified technician. So you blame Yamaha, while that Suzuki dealer may have been the cause of the problem.
> 
> $5k buys a lot of hate.


Nope
I only took it to Carolina Skiff dealer!
They were going to fix it under warranty, but I didn't want to wait, and I didn't want it anymore!


----------



## jonterr

jonterr said:


> Nope
> I only took it to Carolina Skiff dealer!
> They were going to fix it under warranty, but I didn't want to wait, and I didn't want it anymore!


They fixed it and sold it to somebody in the Keys!


----------



## MariettaMike

jonterr said:


> Nope
> I only took it to Carolina Skiff dealer!
> They were going to fix it under warranty, but I didn't want to wait, and I didn't want it anymore!


Impatience is expensive.


----------



## jonterr

MariettaMike said:


> Impatience is expensive.


True
I did keep the 4 blade power tech prop!
I won't ever have a use for it though!


----------



## MariettaMike

jonterr said:


> True
> I did keep the 4 blade power tech prop!
> I won't ever have a use for it though!


If it's a SCD4R15PYM90 with 5/16" porting I'll buy it.


----------



## lost1317

Pretty funny to see people doing investigative work on other peoples threads lol


----------



## pete_paschall

YnR said:


> If you think Yamaha has good CS then you would be in the minority. Their history, especially with their big block motors, has been nothing short of embarrassing. Essentially refused to acknowledge any kind of problem and offering only half-a** solutions.
> 
> I can't speak for Suzuki as I've been very fortunate with their motors but had prior warranty work done on an ETEC and BRP overnighted the part and the shop had it fixed the next day. No questions asked.


I'm sorry you think so, but a few thoughts on what you said:

1) I was relaying info I got from someone I trust who has had more experience with both motors than most people.
2) You referenced "big block" motors, and this discussion involves the mid range motors, specifically the F70. So any "problems" that you refer to may or may not even be applicable to the discussion.
3) I don't know when the CS issues with Yamaha occurred, but the information I got is very up to date. Maybe things have changed since the issues you bring up. Maybe not. But with the prevalence of Yamaha motors out there, if CS was as embarrassing as you claim, I would think that this discussion would not even be occurring, as the reputation for poor customer service would surely knock the Yammies down a notch or two from the sales advantage they seem to have.
4) I find it hard to believe that I am in the minority of people who think Yamaha has good customer service, as Yamaha motors in my region outnumber all other brands combined at least 2 to 1. 

Fact is, all brands will have problems. There are people who will prefer one brand to another based on personal experience, what they have heard or read, etc. For me, I based my decision on someone who has experience with literally thousands of motors from each brand. I am passing along the info I got, as it helped me make my decision. I've had both brands, and fortunately have never had any major issues with either. Just passing along the info that I used to decide in order to hopefully help someone else out.


----------



## fjmaverick

Can we rename this the yamaha and f70 bashing thread? Its more appropriate.


----------



## jonterr

MariettaMike said:


> If it's a SCD4R15PYM90 with 5/16" porting I'll buy it.


I think that's what the one was that I put on the Copperhead!
This one is different!
I'll look when I get home!
Sorry for the hijack!


----------



## coconutgroves

jonterr said:


> I don't care what u believe!
> 60 on my Cayenne is 3 mph better than my copperhead!
> The f 70 that crapped out was on a CS


Slow your roll homey. No need to be a dick. There's nothing wrong with a little debate in the conversation.


----------



## jonterr

coconutgroves said:


> Slow your roll homey. No need to be a dick. There's nothing wrong with a little debate in the conversation.


Not being a dick!


----------



## YnR

pete_paschall said:


> I'm sorry you think so, but a few thoughts on what you said:
> 
> 1) I was relaying info I got from someone I trust who has had more experience with both motors than most people.
> 2) You referenced "big block" motors, and this discussion involves the mid range motors, specifically the F70. So any "problems" that you refer to may or may not even be applicable to the discussion.
> 3) I don't know when the CS issues with Yamaha occurred, but the information I got is very up to date. Maybe things have changed since the issues you bring up. Maybe not. But with the prevalence of Yamaha motors out there, if CS was as embarrassing as you claim, I would think that this discussion would not even be occurring, as the reputation for poor customer service would surely knock the Yammies down a notch or two from the sales advantage they seem to have.
> 4) I find it hard to believe that I am in the minority of people who think Yamaha has good customer service, as Yamaha motors in my region outnumber all other brands combined at least 2 to 1.
> 
> Fact is, all brands will have problems. There are people who will prefer one brand to another based on personal experience, what they have heard or read, etc. For me, I based my decision on someone who has experience with literally thousands of motors from each brand. I am passing along the info I got, as it helped me make my decision. I've had both brands, and fortunately have never had any major issues with either. Just passing along the info that I used to decide in order to hopefully help someone else out.


You've largely missed the point of my comment and resorted to nitpicking. I will just add the CS issues are current with the F350 but have occurred with HPDI 300. The CS dept covers all their engines. Not making any point about the reliability or popularity of Yamaha. Sorry to get this thread off topic. 

Both engines have good performance and the difference is likely to be small. The key questions you should maybe consider are the cost, better low end torque, and slightly lighter weight of the Suzuki worth sacrificing to gain a few mph, increased number of shops available for service, better supply of parts, and potentially better resale (although in this comparison that benefit doesn't seem to be as large as with their other offerings). I won't comment on reliability and CS. I don't think you can go wrong with either and your local shop and cost to purchase/install may be the biggest determining factors which you already seem to be taking into account. Good luck.


----------



## Str8-Six

Sorry, I just had to highlight this point. The whole lack of good props is pretty annoying on the Suzuki. i would add $500 or more for your prop search if you buy the Suzuki. A motor is only as good as its prop. F70 can spin 13" prop, no adjustments, works great on it also there is a good selection of options available. Suzuki should have larger props because of torque but there is not that many options available. I think this is because the lower unit on the F70 is larger than Zuke.


----------



## TheAdamsProject

The Suzuki 60AV is a big foot type motor and can spin a 14". Why not use that one if props are an issue on the 60A?


----------



## Str8-Six

nativejax said:


> The Suzuki 60AV is a big foot type motor and can spin a 14". Why not use that one if props are an issue on the 60A?


I have a 60a now, not going to sell my motor to get a 60av just because of limited prop selection lol. I knew about the limited prop selection when I purchased but didnt think it was going to be so annoying.


----------



## MariettaMike

nativejax said:


> The Suzuki 60AV is a big foot type motor and can spin a 14". Why not use that one if props are an issue on the 60A?


DF60AV weight goes up to 253# from 229# and gear ratio goes down to 2.42:1 from 2.27:1. The Yammy F70 is 257# with 2.33:1 gears. Hells Bay tried that years ago to learn the Yamaha gives better performance.


----------



## Str8-Six

And this ^


----------



## TheAdamsProject

Gotcha, good info. Thank you.


----------



## jonterr

Mi


jonterr said:


> I think that's what the one was that I put on the Copperhead!
> This one is different!
> I'll look when I get home!
> Sorry for the hijack![/QUOTE
> 
> Mike
> I think I pmd you!


----------



## free88

I really think you cant go wrong with either of these two outboards. They are both fantastic, and it is a game of tiny numbers. Little more here, little less there. It really isn't that big of a deal, and I think sometimes people blow this stuff way out of proportion. If it were me and I was trying to get in the skinniest water possible maybe plus 1 angler, I would get the lighter Zuke. That 10HP (real or imagined) difference isn't really going to be that much different, especially with light loads. But saving 30lbs on the transom (especially combined with a JP) could make an inch difference or more in hull draft. If you are not trying to get into the skinniest water possible and/or like carrying more people and gear, I would get the Yamaha.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Str8-Six said:


> Sorry, I just had to highlight this point. The whole lack of good props is pretty annoying on the Suzuki. i would add $500 or more for your prop search if you buy the Suzuki. A motor is only as good as its prop. F70 can spin 13" prop, no adjustments, works great on it also there is a good selection of options available. Suzuki should have larger props because of torque but there is not that many options available. I think this is because the lower unit on the F70 is larger than Zuke.


If you want a badass prop you know what to do but you need to drop some money on it.


----------



## Str8-Six

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you want a badass prop you know what to do but you need to drop some money on it.


How much is it?


----------



## tjtfishon

Surferguy said:


> I need to decide something by 6/24 to lock in the "gimme 6" if I go with the Suz 60.


They will extend it. I'm pretty sure it has been on constantly for at least 18 months when I was looking at a repower. Probably longer than that. BTW, the extra 3 is and extended service contract and NOT a warranty with some limitations in coverage and a deductible for repairs.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Str8-Six said:


> How much is it?


Call Crossroads Propeller and speak with Jack. 
(361) 552-2789


----------



## Benjamin G Young

mtoddsolomon said:


> you can call bs all you want but like I said, I had the option of the f70 and chose against it. Look at Kevin's comments, if I could go back again I'd still get the zuke 60.


Always trust what Kevin says.


----------



## WillPCB

Looking at purchasing a new Mitzi 17 powered with a 2017 Suzuki DF60ATLW2. Not familiar with the engine for this application. Any thoughts or advice on this engine or set up for the Mitzi are welcomed.

Thank you in advance.


----------

