# Do I really need a mud motor or jacked up outboard motor for



## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

WATERFOWL hunt? I'm really leaning back and forth for days to decide which motor should I go with for the classic? a copperhead surface drive motor for $3K? or take a manual jackplate off of my LT15 and bolt it on the classic. Hang a 25hp merc 2 stroke with heavly cupped 4 blade stainless steel propeller on a waterfowl classic? then buy a bob's hydraulic jack plate for my LT15 and use the merc 25hp also. I can buy a hydraulic jackplate and 4 blade s.s propeller for 1K or Copperhead surface drive for 3k?

I just want to make sure if the outboard motor can plow thru thick grass without over heating the motor? because of water intake with all the grass and dirt?

Do I really need a mud motor for duck/snipe hunting in Florda? or I better off with jacked up 25hp merc. I know the drill for outboard motor running in skinny water.


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## Woodie (Jun 20, 2008)

When i duck hunted Lake Seminole, heavily grassed and the shallows, a Go-Devil longtail was my freind.

I would get one of those just for duck hunting, less $$


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## Bissell (Feb 27, 2010)

or just buy another bobs manual JP
save alot of time & money


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## Swamp (Jul 12, 2010)

I hunt out of a 12' jon boat with a long tail. I like to hunt hydrilla and since hydrilla and water pick ups don't mix, I could not hunt most of the areas I like. I also often have more mud under the boat than water. If you don't get into that kind of marsh then I'd stick with the outboard, but if you want to get where the crowds aren't then I'd look at a mud motor. I'd love a faster surface drive, but the longtail works and I don't have the cash to drop.

Swamp


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

WS, I think it mostly depends on where you hunt, and the time of the year. 

Early season down here there are no trails cut through the thick stuff, so an outboard would not make it 10'. Later in the season, you could drive a bass boat to 80% of the spots and get in with an 80lb thrust trolling motor the rest of the way. 

Last season I tried running an outboard and got weeded up too many times to ever do it again. Granted, you could go with an ultrajack jackplate, but the downside is that the skeg is always down there, so it'll affect your ability to go shallow. Plus, taking it on and off will not be practical. 

The 6hp longtail I ran would go anywhere, but the downsides are that it's slow and there's no neutral which can get to be a pain in the a** at times. 

I'm probably going to just stick a 13hp honda motor on that frame in the future and be done with it as I think that would be the practical limit of the classic hull.

The classic I'm finishing has a manual jackplate on it, which more than anything will enable switching back and forth between an outboard and the beavertail longtail without trashing the transom. 

On the classic hull I'd be hesitant to hang any type of longtail more than say the 13hp honda setup, you'll wind up dunking yourself when you get hung up or trying to make sharp turns like when pulling up dekes and stuff. 

-T


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

In all honesty, the longtail is the way to go. Very little maintenance except for the occasional belt here and there. Outboards are just too vulnerable to damage when used for hunting. The surface drives are nice but just a little pricey to be used seasonal. Anything 14 ft and above I would HIGHLY recommend using a motor 20hp and up. However, do not expect to break any speed records with a longtail as compared to the surface drives. There design is mainly for torque and being able to withstand the roughest of terrain. Scavenger so far has given me the best results for being bullet proof. They are made to travel in rocky areas and their customer service is excellent.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Jack plates are great in shallowish water with no weeds. If you are floating on mud as often as water or if it is weedy, the water intake gets clogged just as often as you think it would. Weeds also ball up in front of the lower unit and pull you off plane. 

Get a 5-10 HP Go-Devil and be done with it. The surface drives are cool because they can run fast, but they are much more expensive and heavy and their shallow water performance isn't as good as a longtail when it gets really nasty (but they do what they can do sooooo much faster). You can climb trees with a small longtail.

I thought someone was making small longtails with a neutral, but Go-Devil, Mud Buddy and Beavertail don't mention it. At least they have a thottle now. The old ones would dump you out of the boat if you didn't pay attention. The smallest Mud Buddy and Beavertail weighed in at around 70# while the smallest Go-Devil was 105#. 

Nate


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Excuse me for my earlier suggestion of a 20hp + motor. I forgot this was going on a gheenoe. Your best bet would be to pick a cheap and wide john to hunt out of. You should be able to find one thats affordable. I actually just sold a 14ft wide with a 13hp honda for 900 bucks. As far as a gheenoe with a mud motor they are not very safe unless you stay with the small hp, which makes for a very slow speed. Sorry for the confusion, but I have tried many combos and by error, it has hurt my wallet. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

Blake I have been using a 5 HP Briggs and Stratton for the last 5 years. It isn't fast, but I guarantee no water pump problems. LOL I use an airboat trail on the way to where I hunt then follow a ditch for about 2 miles. It takes a half hour to get there and in some areas I am floating (sort of) in mud. On occasion I have to use the push pole though the Briggs does it alone most of the time. It is on a 15'4" lowsider right now, but started on a hisider.

Best regards,
Frank


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

2 minutes into it.  can you see the hydrilla?  give me a 25hp outboard over a sub 13hp mm anyday!

notice how i stopped, and took off w/o a problem.  boat also had a full cooler, dekes, and another boat in it, not exactly the lightest thing in the world.

get your motor setup and run THIS WEEKEND where you plan to hunt this season.  take some fishing rods and just see if your motor/hull is capable.  if it isnt, then look into a mudmotor.  my vote would be a 16hp godevil or 12hp CH....  anything less will be too slow for YOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgQx1-JEsIg


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## HighSide25 (May 15, 2007)

and the hydrilla on this stuff? aint a thang for the 25merc/4blade/trim tabs/jackplate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uSc6K_vz3I


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

IMHO, if I owned a dedicated duck boat that had to routinely make long runs I would have a surface drive on it without a hesitation. If I just needed a mud motor for my regular boat for duck season, I'd have a longtail.

I've ran 6 hp go-devils on Gheenoes and they are pretty slow, but I don't think a Gheenoe can handle anything bigger safely. The narrow transoms only can handle so much motor weight and they aren't forgiving when you forget you don't have a neutral and start it with the prop in the water. However, whitesnooky already owns a gheenoe to hunt out of and it sounds like he plans on using what he owns.

I have to retract what I previous said about surface drives being too heavy. I just checked out the Copperhead surface drive you mentioned. It could really, REALLY special. At 80# and 10-12 HP, it would work on a Gheenoe if it could plane the boat. I don't know how familiar you are with mud motors, but just in case you are unfamiliar with them, don't expect regular 10 HP performance. All mud motors have lower ratios, less efficient props and much more prop slippage. A 10 HP surface drive may not plane you with a heavy load. If so, you'll have no option but the longtail.

For comparison, the smallest Go-Devil surface drive weighs 207# and is 18 HP. The smallest Mud Buddy surface drive is 165# and is 14 HP. The smallest Beavertail surface drive is 230# and 27 HP.

When you said weeds, I think water hyacinths. When they mat up in canal mouths, a regular outboard will not get through them. We also ran in mud just as often as water. However, Chasing Tail had no problems with hydrilla, so I guess it depends on what you have in your area. 

Check out the UltraJack http://pages.prodigy.net/lee_self/index.htm. I don't think it is an option for a Gheenoe, but the videos are fun to watch.

Nate


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I hunt ducks from time to time and I choose not to use a mud motor. I have one sitting in the barn in MI and have no idea if it even runs.

I have found that the hydrilla will hang on the lower unit IF you don't have the speed. It does not matter if 3 or 4 blade, just need speed. Granted there are limitations to the density to the vegatation.

I will stick with the outboards.


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

thanks for the awesome info! I'm going to stick with a mud motor long tail and I'M LOOKING HARD AT THE COPPERHEAD SURFACE DRIVE MUD MOTOR FOR WORTH FOR A DRIVE!

6.5hp copperhead weights around 80lbs and able to push my gheenoe classic 15.6 feet long and wide body gheenoe up to 15 mph fully loaded.

or a 12 hp copperhead weights around 120 lbs push me around 20 or more mph. 

I'm going to demo with a guy at the dealer that has copperhead motors when my classic is finish. I will keep it updated...

mud motor long tail is way to go and it's alot cheaper to run through anything like a 4 wheel drive. i'm looking for 13-16hp long tail also...


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> thanks for the awesome info!  I'm going to stick with a mud motor long tail and I'M LOOKING HARD AT THE COPPERHEAD SURFACE DRIVE MUD MOTOR FOR WORTH FOR A DRIVE!
> 
> 6.5hp copperhead weights around 80lbs and able to push my gheenoe classic 15.6 feet long and wide body gheenoe up to 15 mph fully loaded.
> 
> ...


I picked up my 6.5 hp Copperhead today and have been testing this afternoon. I'm really impressed with the performance. It didn't even know the lilly pads were there and can't wait to try it in hydrilla. The boat is off to the pipe shop so I can use it next weekend. Grab Bar is strongly suggested.

The Skiff Shop is working in cooperation with Lamar @ Florida Mud Motors. Lamar has been working with these motors since we learned the earth was round and he's wealth of knowledge.

http://www.floridamudmotors.com/


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## Flyline (Mar 3, 2008)

> > thanks for the awesome info!  I'm going to stick with a mud motor long tail and I'M LOOKING HARD AT THE COPPERHEAD SURFACE DRIVE MUD MOTOR FOR WORTH FOR A DRIVE!
> >
> > 6.5hp copperhead weights around 80lbs and able to push my gheenoe classic 15.6 feet long and wide body gheenoe up to 15 mph fully loaded.
> >
> ...


thanks Ron..... please keep me posted how it go with a copperhead motor and I will love to see yours as demo. I'm very seriously looking for one pretty soon. I don't mind to come over to your shop and ask you ?????? if that is okay?

Kyle has been reference me to that guy Lamar and can't wait to look forward to meet him and demo the copperhead on my gheenoe classic. Thanks Alot


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

NP, snooky.

Yeah, Lamar is the man and while I'm happy to help you, he's the expert.

My first impression is that it feels like it's going much faster than it is but it seems to go through about anything.  My daughter kept picking out stuff to run it through and got quite a kick out of mowing down the weeds.  I wish I had known I was going to attempt crossing a mass that I could actually walk on because I would have gotten a run on it and skimmed over it. ;D  Best part was when I was done, I ran it through inches of water and up into my back yard at about half throttle.  I had over six feet of dry land behind the boat when it stopped. 

FYI, Lamar should have a 12hp Copperhead within a few weeks.

Test boat is a 1436 Lowe Jon.


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## TomFL (Oct 2, 2007)

> NP, snooky.
> 
> Yeah, Lamar is the man and while I'm happy to help you, he's the expert.
> 
> ...



Whitesnooky, be careful what you run over if you do get a mud motor, remember these gheenoes are basically a few 'glass fibers holding hands. You touch one immovable object, however small it might be, and it's coming through the floor to say hello. 

If you really need a boat that will go anywhere and survive I suggest you start with a strong boat, go welded AL!

-T


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Ron,

Is the Copperhead about as loud same as any other mud motors? None of them are terribly loud, but I always hope the new ones will be quieter. Those numbers you mention are pretty nice for a small mud motor.

Nate


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> Ron,
> 
> Is the Copperhead about as loud same as any other mud motors?  None of them are terribly loud, but I always hope the new ones will be quieter.  Those numbers you mention are pretty nice for a small mud motor.
> 
> Nate


Think Minibike. 

The vids make it sound loud but when your running, it's no that bad. The exhaust exits back and you're not approaching the speed of sound. ;D ;D


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