# Comparing a 13 vs 15'4 gheenoe



## richg99

OK I am 250, 6'2...old, cranky and clumsy. I presently fish out of a 16' ft. Carolina Skiff STD (old version) and it is as stable as anyone could want.

I also have a RIDE 115 yak and it is stable and works well, but, even with my recently added trolling motor...a bit slow to get to far away places.

Considering a 13 or 15'4 Gheenoe. 

I previously bought and later sold a Classic. I made a mistake in choosing a stick steer. I think that, if I had chosen a tiller or center console, I could have been happier.

My present needs are to have a light weight; easily trailered; small Gheenoe or equivalent. I want to be able to launch it ANYWHERE.

Since it seems to be nearly impossible to demo a Gheenoe in Texas...I'd love input from owners of those two boats. 

No, I do not want a LT or any other version. 

Thanks for your help. rich
'
'p.s. I did do a SEARCH, but the hundreds of responses mostly did not touch on the direct comparison.


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## DuckNut

Rich, I am not going to compare either of these models because I want to throw out to you to check out some of the 13'ish boats that are available. Venganza Marine has a really cool skiff. IPB has a brand new 14 for ~$4k. Hann power boats has a sweet 13'er. I am sure there are others but that is all I have on the tip of my memory.

If you are planning to throw it off the trailer into a ditch, you would be better off with the gheenoe. 

Sorry for the derail.


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## richg99

Yep, you've got my drift...

"If you are planning to throw it off the trailer into a ditch, you would be better off with the gheenoe. "

That is why I am asking about the Gheenoe. The time I have spent with my kayak has made me re-think how I like, and where I like, to fish.

Rich


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## Texas_Aggie

Hey Rich,

Out of curiosity, what are you looking for in a Gheenoe? 

If memory serves me correct, Tico felt the 13 was very stable, where a number of other respected Gheenoers have opined the NMZ was not as stable. 

Like you and I, Tico is not petite and may be a better gauge for making a big man's decision on buying a little Gheenoe. But then again, the Classic strikes me as being the same general size as some of the larger kayaks out there anyway...reason I chose it over an LT25. To me, the Riverhawk (aka, "cheap unauthorized Gheenoe knockoff which we would prefer not to discuss on this forum") B-52 made sense, but is still larger than either of the small Gheenoes.

Like you, I also own a 16' Carolina Skiff that will likely run skinnier, take chop better and certainly be more stable than my Gheenoe Classic. 

However, my CS is too big and too heavy to navigate the greater Houston area marshes and what was once an enjoyable hobby, has now really soured me on kayak fishing b/c everyone and their brother is now over fishing and over crowding most kayak accessible fishing areas. Moreover, mothershipping a kayak is a major pain in the neck.

I have to admit that after you, Bighop and a number of other Texas owners sold their Classic's, I really had my doubts about the feasibility of Gheenoes here in the Lone Star State. Ironically, at the same time frame, I was in the process of trying to buy one of Tico's LT-25s, but I'm lucky Pugar didn't want to mess with shipping it here to Texas b/c I purchased my CS immediately afterward and have really enjoyed it in ways I could have never realized on an LT-25.

The reason I bring all this up is it sounds like your struggling with the same decisions I wrestled with over the past several years concerning buying a Gheenoe. As a matter of fact, I just noticed that tw1nny03 from Houston is asking for similar information over on customgheenoe right now. His post may offer some valuable insight to your inquiry as he is almost 100lbs lighter than either of us, but notice his comments (believe he fishes Pearce Marsh in West Bay...thought you were fishing marshes in upper Trinity Bay & Baytown area):
http://www.customgheenoe.com/forum/posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=22044#preview

The 13NMZ is reportedly small, stable and convenient, but will be slow for a big man due to it's low horsepower rating and the fact Texas game wardens will fine boaters that exceed max CG ratings...not to mention insurance issues. 

By all accounts, you can easily paddle a 15'4NMZ, which may be important while navigating through our muddy marshes b/c a push pole and trolling motor are next to useless in this environment. You can also double the horsepower by going with a 15'4NMZ and effectively get to your destination much faster, but the narrow transom reportedly makes the Highsider much more tippy and even more tricky to plane for the big man. Just my 2 cents anyway...from a fellow Texan.


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## richg99

Well, you are right. 

After reading Twinney's post on CG..it appears that he has many of the same concerns and interests as do I. In fact, I sent him a PM on CG to commiserate.

It is darn near impossible to sort all of this out without having a chance to try out a boat. Every possible place for me to get a quick demo ride is a 7 or 8 hour round trip.

Additionally, I am supposed to trial run a NuCanoe Frontier kayak, equipped with a 2 hp motor, this week. Assuming the weather co-operates, that will give me one more option to consider. 

If it was as easy to trial run at 13 or 15'4 Gheenoe, I could make some sense out of all of this. My size; age; and physical condition all factor in, though I am in better shape now..... than when I retired 13 years ago. 

As far as yak fishing in the Greater Houston area, I don't run into the "crowd" issues that you do, I guess, since I almost ONLY fish during the week. One small reward for putting my 40 years in already. 

I still want to hear from guys who have owned both or either the 15'4 and the 13. I don't want to go back to the Classic or bigger Gheenoes since pulling a really lightweight kayak on trailer... has soured me on towing a heavier craft through the downtown Houston traffic...my only path to the Salt, other than Baytown.

regards, Rich


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## Texas_Aggie

Rich,

I completely understand and can empathize with your situation.

I also fish during the week, but have a long time until I'm ready to retire. Before kayak fishing exploded in Texas, my wife and I used to have days where we would catch over 100 redfish in a single falling tide...but we are primarily catch & release. The interesting thing is we have never come close to the quality of fish caught in our boats as we've seen out of our kayaks. I'm afraid though, those days are long gone.

Again, this is why I wanted to get a Gheenoe in the first place. Please post a review on TFK on your Nucanoe test ride. Even though I will probably buy a Solo before I would the Nucanoe, I am nevertheless curious. Good luck.


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## richg99

Will do re the NuCanoe test. 

One other thing that I am considering is ....if a 2 hp motor will run OK on a 12 ft Nucanoe..how would it run on a side-mount on my RIDE 115. 

Hoping to do a little test on that soon, too. No great speed anticipated, but adding just enough power to cross a bay flat against the wind.

Rich


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## ashotwell

So here is my cut from Eastren NC. I go 5'10" and 240. I had a sit on top yak but where and tear on the bod has caught up with me and I can't sit in one for long. I bought a 15,4. With me and my wife, it paddles well. By myself, the front sits to high, catches the wind and doesn't track well. So I got some oar locks from the company. Locks are working real good and were easy to install (remember this is a comprimise boat). The oar locks they supply are terrible (bolt ons) so I replaced them with the open type. It ain't fast but it tracks well and is not affected by current or wind. The second thing was the weight of the 15,4 -120#. I can get it in and out of the truck but it ain't fun. So I bought a trailer. So I have aboiut $1800 tied up in the boat, its comfortable, and I can stand and fly cast in it.


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## WhiteDog70810

It has been a while, but I have duck hunted out of gheenoes.  The camp had mostly Classics with a 15'4" and a 13' thrown in the mix.  We drug all of them across levees on a routine basis, so they weren't too hard to wrestle around.  All models of Gheenoe were much more stable than the pirogues we favored, but anything feels like a rock after a pirogue.

I'd want a trailer with a Classic, although the truck bed option is certainly reasonable.  For your purposes, a 13' sounds like a better fit.  With a canoe cart it would be pretty easy to launch provided you didn't have much mud to wallow through.

Nate


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## richg99

Thanks, I have asked the dealer in Louisiana to try to locate a 13 buyer in Texas. That way, perhaps I can get a quick trial run. regards, Rich


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## Bill_Laminack

I own a 13 Gheenoe, and have also been spending some time on the Nu Canoe Frontier 12. I love them both. Here is a review of the Nu Canoe that I just wrote... 


http://sunjammers.com/blog/nucanoe-frontier-12-review

Sorry but I am unable to compare the Gheenoe 13 to the 15 4. I have never been in the 15 4. But I can tell you that if standing up and sight fishing by your self is how you do it, I find it simpler and stealthier in the Nu Canoe 12.


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## richg99

blam THANK YOU! 

I am demoing a NuCanoe Frontier tomorrow. The most exciting aspect is the ability to add the 2 hp outboard. 

I already have a wonderful RIDE 115 yak. The NuCanoe ( or the Gheenoe 13) will simply expand my fishing territory.

I will know more tomorrow. regards, rich

p.s. Great review....


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## Bill_Laminack

Don't quickly dismiss the idea of using a 30lb thrust trolling motor. Saturday my friend went around 6 miles on his new Nu Canoe using just that. He never even took the paddle out of the holder. It is a GREAT inexpensive option to get you there if speed is not a huge concern. It does go fairly fast with the trolling motor BTW. Not Gheenoe with a 6hp or more fast but still great.


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## TomFL

Rich, like others I think if you're car-topping a 13 footer is going to be your best option gheenoe-wise. I think it'd fit what you're looking to do. 

My main reason for posting is to give you some input in regards to the questions in your first post. If you choose a gheenoe and are concerned about balance, do not get a center console model. Get an open floor model with no center seat. Reason being is so you can walk the centerline of the boat and maintain balance. These boats have no gunnels to walk on so anything in the middle you have walk around meaning you have to put your weight way off centerline. Not good. 

Another thing to consider is the 13 model has a front seat that is positioned a good bit rearward of the 15 model. This makes for a lot more leg room for whomever is sitting up front. Important if you're a big guy or like to keep some tackle up there. 

I had a 13 that I removed the center seat on, installed a reinforced SS bow eye and coated the bottom with a graphite/epoxy mix. I built it pretty much to fish and duck hunt remote areas with no ramps and it worked like an absolute charm. Loved it. Probably weighed under 100lbs and I routinely slid it down steep canal banks as high as 30', then drug it back up by the bow eye using my truck. No issues ever.

There is an old build thread on here somewhere


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## rusk.parrish

Rich, I live in East Texas and I have a 15'4" with a Mercury 8 hp 2 stroke. If you are looking for a boat to car top or carry in the pick up bed, look elsewhere. Just too heavy for me ( I'm 68 and not getting any stronger with age). With a trailer, you can launch from almost anywhere you can find enough water. I have taken it to aransas pass a lot and it is a decent flats boat. It drafts a little too deep for me so I had a custom skiff built for the flats. The gheenoe will work in shallow water, but will not pole in less than 6 -8 inches. It needs 12-18 inches to get on plane and run. The boat is really stable and I have had three people in it with me poling in the back and one fisherman standing in the front fly fishing. Rough water handling is like any other small boat, go slow and be careful. The ride is decent in light chop but you can get a bit wet in rough water with high winds. I use it in our east tx rivers for white bass and it is great for this. Wish I could give you a demo ride, but it's a long haul to Houston.

Please let me know if I can answer any more questions you might have.

Buz Parrish


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## zeneb

I've had both a 13' and a 15'4". The downsides to a 13' are engine size and weight limit. If you will almost always be fishing alone, then weight is not an issue. The 13' is rated for a 5 HP so any long trips will take you a while. The 15' is rated for a 10HP and rides pretty good with an 8 or a 9.9 on it. I had an 8 on my 15 and got 19 MPH. I have a 15 now and get 23 MPH. I could mess with it and get it up to 26 if I wanted to.

Stability is similar on both. I'm younger than you but still quite a cluts and have no problems in my boat. I would second looking at CG not only for the customs that they make, but you can also check out the bragging forum for many ideas on how people have them rigged.

Side note, I used to load my 13 in a truck which was doable if I had a helper. Without one, it is pretty hard to get on and off. On a trailer it is really easy to get on and off. Just my .02. take it for what it is worth.

Hooching


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## richg99

Thanks, Tom and Buzp and all other posters.

First off, I should have made it clear that I already use a small galvanized trailer for my RIDE 115 yak. I have no intention of car-topping or truck-bedding the Gheenoe or whatever I wind up with. 

Second, Tom, I really like and appreciate your suggestion that a wide hull open area ....that allows me to utilize the center line of the boat...... makes tremendous sense. Even on my Caro Skiff, I have to hang onto the grab rail to get from stern to bow. The available walking width on a 16 foot CC is not much.

Yes, stand-up balance for this old codger is an issue and that was evident when I stepped onto the NuCanoe Frontier this morning.  Clearly I am not suited for a lightweight kayak while standing.

That leaves 
#1 keeping my 16 Carolina Skiff and the yak...and just putting up with the towing weight, or 
#2  trying a 13 or 15'4 Gheenoe and hoping to find it is more stable than the yak was.

I'd love to replace two boats with one...easy to tow...shallow water craft!

I have a number of tentacles out trying to find a willing owner of a 13 or 15'4 that doesn't live in Florida!!!  Ha Ha    If, and when, I have a quick 15 minute trial, I can flange this one up. 

Thanks for all of your help.    regards, Rich

p.s.  With regard to using a trolling motor on my yak...I already am doing that with a 34 lb MinnKota.  It works well, except when the wind is up or where time is of the essence.   Even if I wind up with a Gheenoe, I will have a trolling motor on it, in addition to a small outboard.


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## tom_in_orl

Hey there. I have had several Gheenoes. Including a 13' Lowsider that we use to regularly fish two 200+ adults. You should be fine with a 13' at 250. They are hard to beat for pond hopping and protected waters. 

I have found that the weight and thickness of the boats has varied through the years. Earlier boats seemed to be extremely thin and of course lighter. Newer boats seem to be more sturdy and heavier. Especially the NMZ from Custom Gheenoe. If you as for a bulletproof hull they will build it for you. 

Here is a couple pics for you. This was the old 13' Lowsider loaded down for a 20 - 30 mile one way river camping trip.


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## richg99

Thanks Microtom "Loaded down" I'd say!!! Ha Ha Rich


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