# Constant problems with w/ bad gas



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I would try to run it more than you are. Gas shouldn't sit for too long, especially if it has 10% ethanol. At the same time its best to keep a full tank so it prevents condensation. If at all possible try to fun it at least every other week for a bit and also make sure to keep your tank full.


----------



## zlenart (Jan 30, 2016)

if you're letting it sit for a while then ethanol free is definitely worth the extra money.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

The Star tron will keep it from going bad for 6+months, I've had gas sit for a year and it still work just fine in my mower.

Are you running your motor dry of fuel? If you are cranking it up each month then let it run for 10-15 minutes, then pull the fuel line and let it run till it stops on it's own.


----------



## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

We never used to run motors dry of fuel in the good 'ol days, even though mechanics have always advised it. We used our boats enough that we never had problems. Now it is absolutely non-negotiable; I run it dry every time. I prefer to run my tanks empty as frequently as possible, but if you have a single big built in tank that might not be feasible. You have to use Stabil, Seafoam or an equivalent. I'd buy the ethanol free if you can find it. It stores well (still add a fuel preservative) and will serve you better given the usage you describe.

You really need to go fishing more.

Nate


----------



## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

I run a fuel/water separator and use nothing but E-free have had no issues since! I learned my lesson on an ETEC years ago after scorching injectors from ethanol fuel!


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Everything stated above is spot on. Fuel treatments are not necessary. This is always a heated topic but what it boils down to is running your motor regularly and not leaving your gas tank partially empty as stated above.


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

It is the ethanol. Use eth free gas.


----------



## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

water/fuel separator.PERIOD....

It does not matter how/where the water gets in the tank it needs to be removed.If it starts bogging down, empty the filter... and again.Pure gas is best. http://pure-gas.org/


----------



## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

There is not one good reason why someone should not put a $30 water/fuel separator on their boat to protected a several thousand $$$ investment. I will not argue the technicals since that does get into a heated debate, but why chance it when it is easy to do and only $30?

It doesn't matter if your are buying ethanol free gas, or regular gas. There is no way for you to know the quality. There's where the extra filter helps. 

Everyone I know that hasn't run a water/fuel filter and do not use stab run into issues. It's a small price to pay to mitigate potential issues that are known to happen.


----------



## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

My boats have never get ethanol fuel, and they all get Seafoam and run time to get it in the motor, before I go out of town for any length of time.


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

I filter at the pump to the tank transporting gas to camp, then filter again from tank to filling the boat tank. In addition I have a canister fuel filter on the transom, and add chemtool on occasion to the fuel. Even with all the precautions I still have some issues with water in tanks. I fish nearly 3/4 days a week, but still use the ethanol free fuel in my 2 outboards. A tip from my Yamaha mechanic friend is that ethanol fuel keeps BoatStuf constantly repairing outboards, everyone is subjected to this issue. My mechanic also said to not run motor dry. One issue I do have is after a week of sitting, I will have to pump the bulb a couple of minutes to fill the carbs. As my tank hose is 18' long.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

No Bait / Lures Only said:


> I filter at the pump to the tank transporting gas to camp, then filter again from tank to filling the boat tank. In addition I have a canister fuel filter on the transom, and add chemtool on occasion to the fuel. Even with all the precautions I still have some issues with water in tanks. I fish nearly 3/4 days a week, but still use the ethanol free fuel in my 2 outboards. A tip from my Yamaha mechanic friend is that ethanol fuel keeps BoatStuf constantly repairing outboards, everyone is subjected to this issue.


Do you have an aluminum gas tank on your boat?


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

My mechanic says not to run my 4 stroke dry. So I don't


----------



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

also, changing your diet could help with your gas problems.


----------



## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Everytime I ran StarTron in my gas tank on my yamaha 2 stroke, my carbs would get destroyed. I stopped using StarTron, and it ran great. Just get non-ethanol fuel and you'll be fine.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I've not had any fuel problems in over 8 years. Portable tanks, garage kept, E10 fuel and 6 to 8 months on a single tank between fill ups. No canister filter but still no water contamination. Is the problem caused by a poorly installed tank that is allowing water intrusion where it shouldn't? If my cheap plastic portable tank doesn't end up with water problems, where is the water entering your tank?


----------



## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

I put 2 gallons of fuel in my 6 gallon portable tank last week and picked up about 10 ounces of water in my separator. Some gas stations have water in the underground tanks which then find its way out the pump handle...


----------



## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Install a 10 micron fuel filter with a drain and change the filter once a year, keep the tank full, and go fishing more often...

I run only ethonol fuel in my boat, but I use it once or twice a week so I don't have any problems phase seperation. Now, in my ATV, chainsaws, lawnmower, generator, etc... I run nothing but ethonol free Rec 90 because they sit a lot, ever since I made that change it reduced my problems significantly.


----------



## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

I have never had a fuel problem. On my 06 etec, I will drain tank only if boat has not been used in a few months. Then put it in my truck. Fresh gas next time out. I never run motor dry. I have never used anything more than original OEM filter. Where all your problems come from is odd.

I have only bought gas from same busy stations. Ever. Maybe that is the difference.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

There are definitely gas stations I avoid.
If they cause problems with my car, no way would I trust them with my outboard.
The biggest problem I run into, when helping do maintenance on other's boats,
is a poorly maintained or improperly installed fuel tank. Fuel fills have to be water tight.
They can't be installed in a manner that allows ponding atop it. Orings and seals have to seal.
Dirt, cracks, splits will allow water to enter the fill neck and trickle down into the tank.
Spray from a rinse hose or from wave slap will puddle atop inlet and end up in the tank.
The hose that runs from the neck of the inlet to the tank will often be loosely clamped
and allow water to enter there. The tank vent hose will be installed in a manner that
will allow water to flow into the tank when the hull inclines from the vent fitting towards the tank.
All of these defects will cause serious water problems.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I had constant water in fuel issues in my last boat and one day while drinking a beer and looking at my boat I noticed the cooler I had strapped to the bow deck for a casting platform was trickling water out of the drain plug. It was running right into the hatch and then I opened the hatch and sure enough it was pooling on top of the gas tank and the fuel vent fitting on top of the tank was bubbling...that meant water was going in! I replaced the tank and didn't have an issue again.


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Do you have an aluminum gas tank on your boat?


Shipoke yes, the other Spear is plastic


----------



## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

I run an inline racor and always fill up with non-e not saying that is the cure all but I sometimes park the skiff for weeks at a time with a new baby at home!


----------



## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> There is not one good reason why someone should not put a $30 water/fuel separator on their boat to protected a several thousand $$$ investment. I will not argue the technicals since that does get into a heated debate, but why chance it when it is easy to do and only $30?
> 
> It doesn't matter if your are buying ethanol free gas, or regular gas. There is no way for you to know the quality. There's where the extra filter helps.
> 
> Everyone I know that hasn't run a water/fuel filter and do not use stab run into issues. It's a small price to pay to mitigate potential issues that are known to happen.


Where can you find a fuel filter/water separator for $30? I can only seem to find them for ~$120+. We are talking about the clear bowl type?

Btw, I'm not saying that $120 isn't worth it, just wondering about the $30 options...


----------



## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

initial setup is around $60+ clear bowl so u can drain and no replacement needed


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

yobata said:


> Where can you find a fuel filter/water separator for $30? I can only seem to find them for ~$120+. We are talking about the clear bowl type?
> 
> Btw, I'm not saying that $120 isn't worth it, just wondering about the $30 options...


$60 free shipping! I have had this system on my boat for 3 years. You can see the water and drain it into a little can and keep filtering instead of wondering how much water is in it like the straight screw on filters.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MTB6XY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apis_1484941689700


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

So they want $60 just for a clear bowl? I'm in the wrongoing business again, lol.

I'm in Brett's camp. I've got a portable tank that gets filled once every 2-6 months. No external filter installed, and I use star ton or stabile marine. Not a single issue ever with E10. I'll put a external filter kit on my next boat, but I'll still use E10.


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

firecat1981 said:


> So they want $60 just for a clear bowl? I'm in the wrongoing business again, lol.
> 
> I'm in Brett's camp. I've got a portable tank that gets filled once every 2-6 months. No external filter installed, and I use star ton or stabile marine. Not a single issue ever with E10. I'll put a external filter kit on my next boat, but I'll still use E10.


No, that is the body, filter and clear bowl. Did I post the wrong link or did you not see it? 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MTB6XY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apis_1484941689700


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Right it's just the can, filter, and clear bottom drain. From the description, and complaints in the review, it doesn't appear to come with the top bracket or fittings. So you still have to buy another kit.

The second link was the whole system, so that doesn't seem bad at that price.


----------



## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

You don't need the clear bowl - I just this style, put a date on it and in my spreadsheet where I track maintenance, then change every 6 months.

https://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Separating-Aluminum-Universal-Mercury/dp/B000MTB6XE

30 bones!


----------



## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

I've never had problems with E10 ever. When I feel the gas has been in the tank for a while, I break out my 12v transfer pump and put it in my car to burn.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

The solution to eliminating water in your fuel is prevention.
Inspect all openings to the fuel tank for leaks.
Check the fill inlet for worn or damaged seals.
If the fill is in a location that allows water to pond atop it, move the fill or find a way to cover it.
If the vent hose will allow backflow into the tank, fix it by adding a surge valve and vertical loop.
Prevent water from trickling down and landing on the fuel tank.
Add an inline fuel/water separator and buy fuel from a reliable supplier.

This was my solution 6 years ago.

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/e10-rain-and-a-fuel-cap.26310/


----------



## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I just dragged out my boat and pressure washed it, replaced trailer tires, and a new battery. Pushed the starter button and 5 seconds later it was running on 2 year old non-ethanol gas.

As Brett said, your system is set up wrong or it is coming from your gas station. I believe in Brett's thread I made a post that every time I bought gas from a particular station for my boat I would have problems. Make changes one at a time so you can identify the culprit. Make many changes at once and you'll never know.


----------



## Copperspoonfly (Oct 26, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Do you have an aluminum gas tank on your boat?


yes


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

In most cases the water is from the ethanol absorbing humidity and it condensing in the tank. A direct water leak into the tank is different and probably unusual. If you think there's no difference in how an engine reacts to ethanol vs non eth leave both types in your chain saw or weed eater for 6 months and get back to me.


----------



## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I have left lawn mowers, weedeaters, 3 gallon vented gas cans partially filled for months at a time with no visible water absorption. Not outside, not hosed off after use, all garage kept, no air conditioning and so subject to daily temperature swings and still no fuel problems. That's why I believe in the trickle down effect, not the vapor absorption idea. The internal atmosphere of a fuel tank is mostly gas vapors and the temperature change doesn't allow that much pressure change to occur to cause an actual exchange of internal vapor for external vapor.


----------



## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

Brett said:


> I have left lawn mowers, weedeaters, 3 gallon vented gas cans partially filled for months at a time with no visible water absorption. Not outside, not hosed off after use, all garage kept, no air conditioning and so subject to daily temperature swings and still no fuel problems. That's why I believe in the trickle down effect, not the vapor absorption idea. The internal atmosphere of a fuel tank is mostly gas vapors and the temperature change doesn't allow that much pressure change to occur to cause an actual exchange of internal vapor for external vapor.


nice to see you back Brett !


----------



## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

Brett said:


> I've not had any fuel problems in over 8 years. Portable tanks, garage kept, E10 fuel and 6 to 8 months on a single tank between fill ups. No canister filter but still no water contamination. Is the problem caused by a poorly installed tank that is allowing water intrusion where it shouldn't? If my cheap plastic portable tank doesn't end up with water problems, where is the water entering your tank?




this is correct !


find the SOURCE of the contamination - you solved your problem !

it's NOT the fuel ! everyone has turned the blame on every problem,to E10 fuel.the amount of Misinformation is hard to believe - i'm confident some of the overweight people blame their condition on E10 fuel...

if you're continuing to have a problem with phase separation,contamination,with fuel - you need to find that source of the contamination - stated that before !
most common problem: "o" ring on fill cap missing
next common:bad fuel tank - aluminum fuel tanks DO NOT have a finite life span.aluminum corrodes,water enters tank...

E10 fuel,contrary to popular belief,WILL NOT phase separate on it's own,not gonna happen,water has to be introduced into that fuel to cause that problem.i've had numerous boats sitting for a few season,with E10 fuel,NO fuel problems.

adding all these cocktails to fuel is a fascination of mine - does anyone here add startron to their vehicle ? add seafoam to your vehicle ?

running a fuel separator filter is needed....

in over 20 years,owning a repair shop - I've experienced 3 problems that were fuel problems - all 3 boats fueled up at the same marina.every other fuel related problem was from the boat's fuel system - missing o rings and bad tanks,vent fitting facing wrong way....length of storage time,with E10 fuel was NEVER a factor,never a problem either

startron/seafoam - these are based upon "paranoia"

35yrs experience in the marine repair business has proved that point

I understand there's going to be disagreement about this,I can only state my experience,and I've got plenty...


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

devrep said:


> It is the ethanol. Use eth free gas.


View this on ebay 
*Boat Gas FUEL TESTER KIT Measures Ethanol % Mallory 9-79816 Mercury Quicksilver *


----------



## Flat Mad (Feb 12, 2017)

I put over 4K hrs. on a 250 hpdi all on E10.I used MARINE FORMULA STABLE religiously.Never had a fuel problem.Back on the flats with Yamaha F 70 .I us E10 and stable have not had any issues.when I change the spin on never any water.Yamaha says E10 is OK.


----------



## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

Flat Mad said:


> I put over 4K hrs. on a 250 hpdi all on E10.I used MARINE FORMULA STABLE religiously.Never had a fuel problem.Back on the flats with Yamaha F 70 .I us E10 and stable have not had any issues.when I change the spin on never any water.Yamaha says E10 is OK.




there's never any water in the separator,because you're not getting any water in your fuel system....


----------



## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

E10 has a 21 day shelf life. Run my small outboards dry. I use 
stabil 360 in every thing that burns gas.


----------



## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

State fish rob said:


> E10 has a 21 day shelf life. Run my small outboards dry. I use
> stabil 360 in every thing that burns gas.


if this was true - the amount of fuel problems people would be experiencing would be incredible....


----------



## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Nothing but trouble in nc w e10 and carbureted engines. Efi engines dont have as much trouble,fuel system under more pressure. Glad youve had no trouble......


----------



## Flat Mad (Feb 12, 2017)

I have a 50Hp 2 stroke Yamaha 10.years old broken in on E10 have run nothing else with MARINE FORMULA STABLE use west marine 2 stroke oil from day one.It gets a can of Mercury Power tune once a year. This engine is still strong.


----------



## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

Ethanol free from Race trac is all I use
Considering getting one of these
http://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200325161_200325161?hotline=false


----------



## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

State fish rob said:


> Nothing but trouble in nc w e10 and carbureted engines. Efi engines dont have as much trouble,fuel system under more pressure. Glad youve had no trouble......




please,explain this to me ?


----------



## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

predacious said:


> please,explain this to me ?


It was explained to me by a evinrude service mechanic that carbureted engine fuel systems are under less pressure than fuel injected systems this is why folks ran a fuel pressure regulators on some caburated systems.
As for the 21 day shelf life , this is when the fuel begins to break down. No einstein here , just passing on food for thought


----------



## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

Fuel is delivered to the motor from the fuel tank - not under pressure 

You realize that,yes ??


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

predacious said:


> Fuel is delivered to the motor from the fuel tank - not under pressure
> 
> You realize that,yes ??


How's that? The fuel pump pulls gas from the tank to the carbs, if there were no pressure how would the fuel flow uphill to the motor? Even if it were a gravity feed system there would be some pressure.


----------



## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

predacious said:


> Fuel is delivered to the motor from the fuel tank - not under pressure
> 
> You realize that,yes ??


Unless your fuel tank is above your engine ie:lawnmowers , your fuel system is under pressure
How much pressure it depends on the engines ,I understand mercury EFI pushes about nine psi for the fuel injectors
Pretty sure squeezing bulb on fuel line is creating pressure somewhere


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

State fish rob said:


> Unless your fuel tank is above your engine ie:lawnmowers , your fuel system is under pressure
> How much pressure it depends on the engines ,I understand mercury EFI pushes about nine psi for the fuel injectors
> Pretty sure squeezing bulb on fuel line is creating pressure somewhere


 The primer bulb does just that. It gets fuel primed through the fuel pump all the way to the carbs or EFI through the fuel pump and once the motor turns the fuel pump takes over.


----------



## predacious (Sep 1, 2016)

you do realize,withdrawling fuel - that's negative pressure - vacuum

fuel pressure comes in on the output side of the pump - understand ?

fuel pumps - one side is intake,suck side...other side is output,pressure

get it ??

primer ball - you squeeze it,it sucks on one end,and pushes fuel out the other side...


----------



## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

predacious said:


> you do realize,withdrawling fuel - that's negative pressure - vacuum
> 
> fuel pressure comes in on the output side of the pump - understand ?
> 
> ...


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

predacious said:


> you do realize,withdrawling fuel - that's negative pressure - vacuum
> 
> fuel pressure comes in on the output side of the pump - understand ?
> 
> ...


What pushes the fuel? PRESSURE!
Get it?


----------

