# Skiffs Without Cleats



## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I notice a lot of skiffs without a bow cleat -- for those of you that don't have one, do you ever wish that you did? Is there anyone that has one that wishes they didn't? Why?

I know many of us don't anchor often, and when we do it's probably fairly easy to just clip or tie to the bow eye. Probably keeps the rubrail in better shape as well.

If you have no bow cleat, what do you typically do when you tie up to a dock or raft up to another boat, though? For example, if you're ever someplace where you leave your boat tied up to the dock for a while (say you're at a house with a dock on a bight, or at a restaurant on the water). I would think going to the bow eye would be a hassle, but maybe I'm just not well-practiced.

Inquiring minds want to know! Share your experiences -- I love the look and simplicity of these skiffs without them, but I wonder if it's worth the (perceived) hassle of going cleat-less.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Mine has no bow cleat not installed by Harry but it's not bothered me to this point i just use the eye for everything kinda of a pain to get on your stomach and tie it off but I have only had it a few months so I can't bring myself to drill any holes in the the deck plus i like the clean look.


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## hunterbrown (Feb 17, 2014)

I prefer no bow cleat, just gets in the way. My last skiff had one and I never used it to tie up, I would rather not be pulling on the deck, same reason I don't tie to the poling platform. I also prefer how the boat sits when tied to the bow eye.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

If you guys have a trolling motor puck on the bow you can screw a cleat to the starboard and mount the cleat on the edge so you don’t have to drill any more holes in the deck. I did this on my last boat and it worked great.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Recessed cleat works great.....

Now I am thinking I need a chock to keep anchor line from rubbing...


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Have the standard recessed/pull-up cleat on the starboard bow. Also have a trolling motor and the mount puck, so the cleat isn't in the way. I use a 25-foot dock line with an eye splice in one end and a stainless snap on the other. Use the snap on the anchor point in the truck bed when launching with the splice through the cleat. When I dock, the eye also goes into the bow cleat, I wrap a couple times around a dock cleat amidships and then loop the snap end around the poling platform leg to secure. Quick, easy and keeps the boat in place. I also use an anchor/float system when tarpon fishing, so the bow cleat is much easier to access than the bow eye, especially on an afternoon sea breeze chop.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

No cleats on my Spear.

In a pinch I tie off to the lowest portion of my grab rail or poling platform. The boat is so light that tying off low doesn't create any torque or stress worth worrying about.

Staking out on the flat I use a carabiner clip to connect an Airhead bungie to the bow eye. This keeps the deck clean and stable even in wind or light chop as the bungie absorbs any shock.

If I need to angle the boat a certain way after staking the nose, I drop a mushroom weight off one of the rear corners.

Its a bit manual but its quieter and cleaner than the various powerpole options.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Unless your skiff is in a boat sling or never staked from the bow, the bow cleat is essential. Pop up cleats work. Other than aesthetics, there is not a reason to not have one.


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Cleats are a staple. I sometimes add chocks to control the lines, both for anchoring and docking. When I had a bass boat, which had a low rail alongside the helm, I used a square foam fender and a rubber bungee cord at most docks; it held me close but had some give for wakes, waves, or just people stepping heavily into the boat.


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## JMZ400 (Aug 30, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you guys have a trolling motor puck on the bow you can screw a cleat to the starboard and mount the cleat on the edge so you don’t have to drill any more holes in the deck. I did this on my last boat and it worked great.


I recently added a trolling motor and had to remove my pop up... boy do I miss it! Can you post a pic of this? I'm not sure exactly where you're saying to mount it.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

I have three pop-up cleats around the deck. I wouldn't have designed it that way, but I'm glad to have them. I use the bow cleat to tie down my casting platform since I don't have deck hardware for eye bolts. I use a turnbuckle and carabiner. 

I also use the cleat to tie off and stake out into the wind when wading, but I could always just use the bow eye.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

sjrobin said:


> Unless your skiff is in a boat sling or never staked from the bow, the bow cleat is essential. Pop up cleats work. Other than aesthetics, there is not a reason to not have one.


The only real downsides I could think of for having a cleat are:
1) Aesthetics
2) Holes in the deck

That being said, those are pretty significant downsides (especially the second one). I'm tossing around ideas for a fly-fishing only, very basic skiff build/rebuild over the winter. At this point I'm leaning towards completely flat decks with open bulkheads, so it would be nice to not put any holes in the deck at all (clamp-on/magnetic bow lights are looking good as well).

It's interesting seeing both sides of the discussion. Until getting on Microskiff, I never even considered the option of not having a cleat.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I use the bow eye, have a small stainless carabiner on the bow line. Use the platform to tie off the rear. cleats are a must if you tie off for long periods but I don't.


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## Guvner (Jun 19, 2013)

Funnily enough I am installing a flush mount pull-up cleat on my Superskiff this week, launched it twice without a cleat and it was a pain in the ass unthreading the dock line through the bow eye.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I've told you before, the only regret in my skiff is adding the tm puck and cleat.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

No cleats on my last skiff and there will be no cleats on my new build. I hate that I am adding a TM puck but growing up in Jax and going back to see family, it is nice to have one on there but I never use it anywhere else.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Those of you without cleats -- do you go to the bow eye when docking, or do you just avoid docking for long periods? Or do you have a casting platform you like to tie to?

I really like the idea of going without a cleat, but like several have already said -- having one can be incredibly useful. Although, I suppose it's always easier to add one than remove one...


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

@bryson I use the bow eye in the front rather than the casting platform. If I am just tying up for a quick lunch I use the steering wheel for a spring line or tie off on the poling platform. For longer periods or in rougher areas I do not use the wheel, I use the bow eye and transom eyes. I can run the loop through the eye and then tie off pretty quick. I could see that being an issue for some with bad backs or not very nimble and in that case a cleat would be the best bet.


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## Guvner (Jun 19, 2013)

nativejax said:


> I could see that being an issue for some with bad backs or not very nimble and in that case a cleat would be the best bet.


That's my issue right there


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

No cleats anywhere on my boat. No rod holders either.

The ramp that I launch from most doesn't have a dock so I walk my boat down and off the trailer, then pull it around to the side and back to the bank by hand (no rope to get wet) until it just touches, then put the power pole down while I go park.

For ramps with a dock I tie a clove hitch around the shaft of my trolling motor, and let it hang down current from the dock.

I used to tie around a leg of my casting platform that was through bolted to the front deck of my Waterman. Don't do that with a turnbuckle tie down because the platform moves.

When anchoring I use a snap shackle on the bow eye.

If I need to tie up I use some combination of the grab bar, poling platform, and trolling motor.

If I didn't have my TM there I would use a small eye like Flip does for a painter line right on the tip of the bow.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Bow cleat only. Use all the time for staking off or anchoring when bow into wind is needed. I also tie anchor to it and another rope to tower and then to anchor. Keeps boat pointed into sandbar vs parallel to it in current. Kind of like a triangular setup. It’s flush and never causes an issue.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I need to see some schematics of how y’all are tying off without cleats. Seems fairly complicated as opposed to having proper cleats.


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## Plantation (Nov 24, 2015)

93% of the time I tie up to the dock with a line coming from the center console grab handle. I do two lines, bow and stern, when overnight or going somewhere to eat. If current is rolling I'll reach down and tie to bow eye and let her hang in the current off the end of the dock. I don't have a cleat and don't desire to have one. Have owned pop ups on past boats.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Ive never had trouble casting w cleats on deck , i have had trouble keeping a boat secure w/o them. Pop ups are the best ,but a piece of duct tape will let fly line slide over a std cleat. I wonder ,if a cleat can cause a bad cast ,how do folks avoid all the other junk above board ( tm cp pp ) ? I ve seen some skiffs with radios in weird places, prolly keeping the knobs out of the way ! Any of you guys fly cast around a t top ?


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## mmccull5 (Nov 15, 2012)

Zero cleats, rod holders and grab handles for me as well.. 

Or like Marietta Mike said:









But even that annoyed me. I'll be putting some threads in the deck to make the trolling motor puck removable in the winter time.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

I have a pop-up on my new to me boat. On the Gheenoe I only used the front bow eye. 

I have rarely used the pop up but its never in the way for casting on fly. Try to get in and out of the ramp more quickly. 



State fish rob said:


> Ive never had trouble casting w cleats on deck , i have had trouble keeping a boat secure w/o them. Pop ups are the best ,but a piece of duct tape will let fly line slide over a std cleat. I wonder ,if a cleat can cause a bad cast ,how do folks avoid all the other junk above board ( tm cp pp ) ? I ve seen some skiffs with radios in weird places, prolly keeping the knobs out of the way ! Any of you guys fly cast around a t top ?


 I did once offshore for Mahi you have to quarter the boat so that you can get a full back cast.


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## ZaneD (Feb 28, 2017)

mmccull5 said:


> Zero cleats, rod holders and grab handles for me as well..
> 
> Or like Marietta Mike said:
> 
> ...


^ This is what I would have put on my skiff had it not already come with a popup cleat. Just carry a dock line with a carabiner and clip it right on.

OR if you do install a cleat, go with the "pull up" design (Gemlux) rather than the one that flips 90 degrees, my skiff has the flip up and I strongly dislike it.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I rigged out the old skiff I run (1988 Maverick XL, 16' 10", beam 84") starting 30 years ago. They were only produced for a year or two - way back when, and has no inner liner... I begged until they sold it to me un-rigged sitting on a trailer - all those years ago. 

Back then I didn't have the first idea that it would end up as a working boat... Since I learned the shallows and light tackle as a club angler (the old Tropical Anglers Club in Miami) I needed to be able to use all kinds of tackle inshore, offshore, spin, fly, plug, etc... that's how I set the skiff up from the first. One of the first items added was an Accon pop up cleat - the 4" size... It's worked well these past 30 years without the slightest problem - but from almost day one I wish I'd installed a 6" version since I'm not exactly running a microskiff - and like to use 1/2" braided lines... 

At any rate, with the pop-up locked down you never notice it when fly fishing - yet at a moment's notice with the press of a button it's there for your docklines, anchor line, something to hang a chum bag off of (or just carcasses on a line when teasing up sharks for the fly rod... Can't recommend the Accon cleats enough - although they're not cheap. Mine has been in hard service these past 22 years and still operates exactly the way it did when first installed...

I know that many with micros want an absolutely clean bow deck - but if I'm ever lucky enough to add a micro to my regualar boat - it will have a pop up as well....


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

^^^ That is actually whats on the skiff. The pull up kind, If not in use you could step on it and fold them back.


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## Guvner (Jun 19, 2013)

ZaneD said:


> ^ This is what I would have put on my skiff had it not already come with a popup cleat. Just carry a dock line with a carabiner and clip it right on.
> 
> OR if you do install a cleat, go with the "pull up" design (Gemlux) rather than the one that flips 90 degrees, my skiff has the flip up and I strongly dislike it.


That's what I have


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

It seems a lot of you wouldn't even consider a popup cleat. I know rigging is a personal issue, but I'm curious what some of you have against popup or flush-mounted cleats. Not looking for an argument, just curious. I've always used at least recessed cleats on casting decks, and insist on a popup in the new skiff. But I can't see having a boat with nothing on the bow to secure a line to; it just doesn't seem practical. Never having owned a poling skiff before, I've never owned a boat with popup cleats. Is there something I'm not aware of that makes them untenable?


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## Guvner (Jun 19, 2013)

Pop ups is one more thing to break/maintain but pull ups require no maintenance, so having one is a no brainer for me. It's flush, it's snag free, and it's as handy as a shirt pocket.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

hipshot said:


> It seems a lot of you wouldn't even consider a popup cleat. I know rigging is a personal issue, but I'm curious what some of you have against popup or flush-mounted cleats. Not looking for an argument, just curious. I've always used at least recessed cleats on casting decks, and insist on a popup in the new skiff. But I can't see having a boat with nothing on the bow to secure a line to; it just doesn't seem practical. Never having owned a poling skiff before, I've never owned a boat with popup cleats. Is there something I'm not aware of that makes them untenable?


Tying off to the eye in the front of the boat keeps your line from rubbing against the deck and I just don't like holes in my deck.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

I’m not a fan of front deck cleats either, and wanted simplicity but also ease of use. I’ve ended up with an anchor locker being the only hatch on my boat, since I hate dealing with a muddy anchor and wet rope in the cockpit, even in a bucket. It’s always in the way or hard to get to and making a mess. 

Inside the anchor locker hatch I’m mounting a flip up cleat so the lid just closes when it is folded down. 

https://www.amazon.com/Amarine-made...27438&sr=8-4-fkmr0&keywords=Folding+bow+cleat

I’ll also have a 15’ bow line that stays attached to the boat and can be coiled up and hung out of the way in there.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Ive seen “ stay attached “ lines get wrapped up in trailer wheels while towing. The damage was unbelievable. Looked like a 3’ saw kerf in bow. Stay safe
I trashed a boat cover once , moving boat in driveway ,1 loose tie line got hung on tire, ripped cover in 1/2 rite behind console. Hurtful


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

Not sure I saw this mentioned...most pop-up or slide-up type cleats will by design or eventually leak. Some boat manufacturers design a catchment under a cleat of this type, or ensure that it will just transport the water to the bilge. In a microskiff, this isn't always possible. I'm just passing this along... another consideration.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2018)

I’m a cleat guy, but they have to be pop up of fold downs!


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## hipshot (Sep 29, 2018)

Backcountry 16 said: "Tying off to the eye in the front of the boat keeps your line from rubbing against the deck and I just don't like holes in my deck."

Not trying to be confrontational here, so don't take this as a belligerent challenge, but I've been around boats all of my life, and I've never seen a line wear a hole in a deck. It would seem to be even less of a possibility on a light boat. I've been thinking about that since you posted it. So I have to ask -- again, trying to learn something here, not calling you out -- have you ever seen that actually occur? Also, although I initially took your statement to mean that the lines would rub a hole in the deck, after some consideration I realized that you may have meant that you didn't want a hole in the deck for the purpose of mounting the cleat. If that's the case, I withdraw the question.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

State fish rob said:


> Ive seen “ stay attached “ lines get wrapped up in trailer wheels while towing. The damage was unbelievable. Looked like a 3’ saw kerf in bow. Stay safe
> I trashed a boat cover once , moving boat in driveway ,1 loose tie line got hung on tire, ripped cover in 1/2 rite behind console. Hurtful


Interesting. I’ve had ratchet strap tails come untied and get under trailer tires, it makes a heck of a racket. This line would be stored in the anchor locker so it wouldn’t just be blowing around. 

Might still be worth attaching it with a stainless pad eye and some small screws so it would just rip out in a bad event. It’s main purpose will be for launching and retrieving so it won’t see much force. When it is used to tie up and leave the boat unattended, it would be easy to make a wrap around the cleat so it takes the load. Thanks for the idea.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Cleats are useful if you frequently tie up alongside a dock. Otherwise they're useless on a skiff. Use the bow eye for anchoring, which is something that I do very, very infrequently. If you need a tow, also use the bow eye. In rough seas under tow, there's a good chance a typically mounted cleat will pull right out of the deck.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

hipshot said:


> ..., but I'm curious what some of you have against popup or flush-mounted cleats.


Any hole through the deck other than a hatch with gaskets, gutters, latch, and drains is a bad hole through the deck to me. Even screw holes are a risk for water getting in the foam core of the deck. And those Accon pop-up cleats really suck when the little drain connection breaks off the POS plastic drain pan that goes under it. Putting in a new one is impossible on many skiffs without pulling the cap.

Same goes for those heavy ass Accon pop-up running lights you find on a lot of older skiffs.

Cleats are also something you can trip or slip on. Especially while fighting a tarpon in open waters. Which reminds of all these people I see putting cup holders in their casting and poling platforms. There is no way I would want that for fishing, or poling, in open water conditions.


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## ShugC (Apr 23, 2016)

I did my Carolina 16 with pad eyes like Flip uses for painters. They are easy to clip off to and small enough to stay out of my way when not in use


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

I finished building my boat a few months back. I've had it out 8-10 times and am kicking my self for not putting a flush mount cleat on the bow.


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