# '86 Gheenoe Highsider restoration questions



## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)




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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Sorry for the confusion with the pictures... still learning I guess. They are not in order. As you can see, I have completely ripped the transom out, ground down to raw fiberglass and did so 5" around on the starboard side, port side and floor to adhere my strips to. 

The plan for next weekend is purchase a 3/4" piece of Marine Plywood. Cut two transom pieces from the template made out of cardboard (i might actually use sculpting putty to be more accurate). I will use an epoxy system.. so far i am set on using West Systems 105-B resin and 206-B hardener (slow hardener). It is available here locally for $86 and $41, respectively for a total cost of roughly $140 after taxes and such. My other option is I can get my hands on a similar product, name brand Mar-Pro, and can get it at cost. Probably about $60 cheaper overall. I haven't found much review on Mar-Pro epoxy resin, but I have used their outboard engine paint in the past. 

Anyways, with the epoxy resin I will coat one side on each of the transom cutouts. I will allow it to soak, 20 or 30 min, and apply a second coat. I will continue to soak with epoxy until i get a nice tacky finish. Then I will add more epoxy and place the two transom pieces together. I will probably use a 45lb weight from a weight bench set to sandwich them together, so I don't use to much force. After that is complete I will allow to dry for 24 hours. I will lightly sand the edges to rough up any epoxy that came out, then coat the whole assembly in several layers until it is done soaking in the wood. Here is the question, should I add some glass (if yes, what weight) to the wood BEFORE I install it in the Gheenoe? If no, I will just allow the epoxy to dry completely, then use an epoxy with a filler (probably West System 405-filleting bend, or Mar-Pro alternative) and cover the transom (in boat) completely. I will then cover the wood transom core with a notched trowel and sandwich the two together using clamps. Allow 24 hours to dry, then use the epoxy fillet mixture to fillet the edges so I can place glass tabs on. QUESTION: What weight do I use for the glass tabs? And how do I lay them?

Thank you! Sorry for the lenghty posts, and if I am incorrect in my plan please let me know!


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2018)

Give me a bit and I’ll get back to ya!


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2018)

Ok, so heres how I would do it lol!
Start off with a composite core such as Divynicell etc... save you $ on the epoxy and go with poly resin.
Glass your core together with a layer of 1 1/2oz csm, cut core to fit the transom, gather up some clamps, lay up 2 layers 1 1/2oz csm consecutive on transom skin, place core and clamp before it kicks.
After csm kicks and cures for an hr or so you can remove clamps. Now onto filleting the sides and bottom. Once fillets are kicked, tab in sides with two layers overlapping 1708 biax and glass front of transom in. Cut all materials ahead of time and this can be done in one shot! If you are careful and cut your front piece of glass to fit it can overlap the top also. 
If you use epoxy leave out the CSM and add cabosil to some epoxy to make a bonding putty “peanut butter” glue core together using the putty and let kick, glue core to hull using putty and clamp and allow to kick and cure. Same procedure for glassing. Hope that helps!


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

It does help, thank you!

So I will use 1708 biax strips (say 6", 3" on transom and 3" on hull) as tabs? Or should I do first tab: 4" on transom, 2" on hull; second tab: 2" on transom, 4" on hull? Do the tabs need to be a certain length or can I do one tab on starboard, one on port and one on bottom (I would allow some sort of overlap). Just to clarify, after the tabbing I will put an entire layer of 1708 over the entire transom face and tabs?

Also, once the epoxy filler has, "kicked," I can go ahead and do the fillets? The glass used for clamping will fully cure even with the fillets eliminating further air exposure?


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2018)

Just stagger the tabbing so ya don’t end up with a thick a$$ seam so a 2” stagger is good. Your going to bond the core to the hull skin before any glassing is done. Follow bonding with filleting the edges. Once bonding putty and fillets are kicked and allowed to cure an hr or so, I would then tab the sides and bottom and lay up the inner skin in one go. I like tabbing then inner skin it looks nicer.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Thank you for the clarification! That will be the task this weekend (with pics of course). Then we can move on to what to paint over the repair, and repairing the bottom. I read a lot, but it gets overwhelming because every project is slightly different; so I am still learning. 

Thanks again!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

BMarshall said:


> Do the tabs need to be a certain length or can I do one tab on starboard, one on port and one on bottom


I think you misunderstood.

Once you have the piece in place fill the gaps with thickened epoxy and round off using no less than a 1/2" radius. Then tab it in place by using a 4" wide strip all the way around the piece you just put in and then followed by a 6" wide piece (this will give you staggered edges). You do starboard, port, bottom and use cloth over the top .

If you don't have clamps just use screws from the outside and then drill out the hole a bit and use a cajun injector from Publix to fill the holes with thickened epoxy.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Thanks for chiming in! All of the information has been great and through the many threads I have been reading, you have proven to be very knowledgeable! So i will use (1) 4" wide strip on port, (1) 4" wide strip on starboard, and (1) 4" wide strip on bottom; then repeat with 6" wide strips. I just wanted to confirm I do not need to use one continuous strip, because that sounds like it would be hard to follow the contours. As for the cloth, what weight should I use? I purchased a 50" wide x 1yd long piece of 1708 chopped strand mat (CSM) that I plan to cut down to use as strips. Can I then cover the whole transom with this. If yes, does the CSM face out (into the interior of boat) or does the cloth face out (into the interior of the boat)? If no, what should I buy?

I am using Marpro (made by Mar Pac Industries) Epoxy and Resin. I have 1 gal of epoxy and enough accompanying resin for a 5:1 mix ratio. How big of batches should I be making?


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2018)

BMarshall said:


> Thanks for chiming in! All of the information has been great and through the many threads I have been reading, you have proven to be very knowledgeable! So i will use (1) 4" wide strip on port, (1) 4" wide strip on starboard, and (1) 4" wide strip on bottom; then repeat with 6" wide strips. I just wanted to confirm I do not need to use one continuous strip, because that sounds like it would be hard to follow the contours. As for the cloth, what weight should I use? I purchased a 50" wide x 1yd long piece of 1708 chopped strand mat (CSM) that I plan to cut down to use as strips. Can I then cover the whole transom with this. If yes, does the CSM face out (into the interior of boat) or does the cloth face out (into the interior of the boat)? If no, what should I buy?
> 
> I am using Marpro (made by Mar Pac Industries) Epoxy and Resin. I have 1 gal of epoxy and enough accompanying resin for a 5:1 mix ratio. How big of batches should I be making?


What you have is 1708 biax not csm, the 08 means it has csm on it. The csm will go to inside and cloth to outside. A gallon of resin will typically wet out about/around 32sq ft of 1708 first timers don’t typically see this but take your time and you’ll do fine.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Ok, great! Thank you! You guys are the best.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Cut the cloth to the pattern the best you can before putting it in. It is easier to get a really good cut.

You will also nee to get some finer cloth to cover the top. Grind the outside a few inches down and wrap over the top. After you have it all tabbed in and top fixed then place the cloth ove the tabs and wrap. 

Because the cloth is heavy and all the resin will follow gravity, coat the piece of cloth on the ground or a table on top of a sheet of plastic. After it is wetted out coat the entire area where you are going to put it. The pick it up carefully and put it in.

This will benefit you with glass/resin mix. You will coat it too heavy but gravity will help pull some of the extra through to give you a better ratio.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2018)

DuckNut said:


> Cut the cloth to the pattern the best you can before putting it in. It is easier to get a really good cut.
> 
> You will also nee to get some finer cloth to cover the top. Grind the outside a few inches down and wrap over the top. After you have it all tabbed in and top fixed then place the cloth ove the tabs and wrap.
> 
> ...


Very good advise!


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Finally got to work today. After making a cardboard template, I traced it on to a piece of drywall and used that as a template. The drywall is nice because you can cut the trace a little big and then file off the excess. Alas, I transferred it onto my 3/4” AB MARINE PLYWOOD. I cut that piece out, confirmed the fit, then traced it and cut a second one. I then coated one side on each of the pieces, allowed it to soak about 15 minutes, then on with a second coat. After 15 minutes I applied a third coat to each side and sandwiched them together. 


























So there it is all fileted in. I didn’t get to start the glass because I started running out of time. Tomorrow I will sand the filet tab, the face of the transom and then start my tabbing. I have to get a thinner cloth to wrap over the top. What is recommended? Something I can buy in bulk to use on the outside bottom of the boat as well? Next up is using paint stripper, get that nasty house paint off, then I will sand the gel coat off so I can add a layer of cloth to help strengthen any hair cracks on the outside. This is to prevent any issues for when I put a false floor in. Would hate to spring a leak under it. Am I on the right track or should I just use a fairing compound on the whole bottom? 

Thanks in advance!


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2018)

A layer of 12oz biax will do wonders w/out adding too much weight.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

just to confirm: 12oz biax on the outside, bottom of the boat?


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2018)

Inside bottom.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

On the right side of the picture (Port side of transom) it looks like maybe air got behind my cloth?? It’s hard as a rock and doesn’t feel like a bubble... think it’s ok or should I sand it out and lay a thin layer of cloth over the whole thing again?


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2018)

Is it right ther in the corner/fillet? Yes, I would grind that air out and patch. Air turns into water over time. You can drill a small hole top and bottom of the void and fill with epoxy from bottom up with a syringe. Cover holes with tape while epoxy cures.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

BMarshall said:


> View attachment 52556
> View attachment 52558
> 
> 
> On the right side of the picture (Port side of transom) it looks like maybe air got behind my cloth?? It’s hard as a rock and doesn’t feel like a bubble... think it’s ok or should I sand it out and lay a thin layer of cloth over the whole thing again?


It is actually a couple inches away from the filet. And it’s just the top layer which basically covered the whole face of the transom. The tabs went on, two layers, with no issue at all! My problem was waiting until the end to put a piece of the whole transom. Should’ve done that first so I didn’t have that ledge over the tab.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2018)

I do it exactly how you did so the seam is covered. I typically sand down the edge of the tab though so the transition is smooth.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Boatbrains said:


> I do it exactly how you did so the seam is covered. I typically sand down the edge of the tab though so the transition is smooth.


Gotchya! I was going for the wet on wet application.. in hindsight I probably would have been happier had I done it that way. I was just worried about leaving the wood skin exposed in case of rain. I did coat it well in epoxy, but I over worry things.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Ok boat is flipped and I’m ready to attack the bottom! As you can see from the photos, it has 3 shoddy repairs and looks like a cloth was gelcoated on the entire run of the kill. 

The plan is: (and please correct me if I’m wrong)

Grind down 6” is both directions down the entirety of the keel, paying special attention to the spots that were repairs. Once I am down to normal fiberglass I will add some kind of glass. My thought is 3 layers of 6 oz cloth? Or should I use 2 layers of 9 oz cloth? Or am I completely wrong and should I be using something else? I’m just looking to build good rigidity so I can beach without worrying about wearing a hole through. 
Once it is glassed, I will smooth the entire bottom using a fairing compound. 

Let me know if I’m way off with the glass material! Is it better to use a biax like 1208, or something for this application??


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2018)

Are there still seats/ bulkheads in the boat now?


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Boatbrains said:


> Are there still seats/ bulkheads in the boat now?


Yes the seats are still in the boat. I wanted to attack the bottom before I removed the seats and later a false floor


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2018)

Ok, my advise would be to clean the bottom up and see where your at with it. Flip it back over, set on a stand making sure she is setting true to form. Make yourself up a couple jig type fixtures that you can set on top to support and hold the gunnels from distorting. Now you can remove the seats and grind/prep inner side of hull to accept new glass. Since your planning on a raised floor a single layer of 1700 biax epoxied in and rolled out properly will do wonders for that hull w/out adding a bunch of weight. Build a center stringer and span that with your floor sitting level on the inner sides of tha flat chines. Place and glass your bulkheads, flip boat over again and do any fiberglass repairs that are needed, fair and paint, flip again and finish interior. Placing the biax on the inside is a better place in the laminate for it to be.


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## BMarshall (Nov 18, 2018)

Thanks for the advice! But any reason why I want to add the 1700 biax to the inside as opposed to adding some glass to the outside? Or should I just sand the outside as smooth as I can, fair it and paint it? Then add all glass on inside?


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2018)

Without getting too geeky, the biax will imo do it’s job better on the inside of the laminate. Leaving the “most likely” single layer of woven and chop as an outter skin to protect the biax from being damaged by beaching, rocks, etc... Do any need hull repairs on the outside and fair as needed. Do the repairs by scarfing and laying new glass in the areas (actually do these repairs prior to laying the biax inside to avoid grinding it when scarfing) then follow my first procedure and you’ll have a good strong, well re-built hull.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

BMarshall said:


> Thanks for the advice! But any reason why I want to add the 1700 biax to the inside as opposed to adding some glass to the outside? Or should I just sand the outside as smooth as I can, fair it and paint it? Then add all glass on inside?


You are over thinking it. If you take a slice of bread and put another on top of it and flip it over which side is the top?

It does not matter because you are gluing it all together. Sand the outside smooth, repair pot holes and paint. Repair like BB said on the inside.

To hold the shape cut 2x4s to the width where you want them and screw right through the gunnel, you will want these to fit real good/not sloppy. Make sure the boat is on a level surface and pretty well balanced on its keel when you do it.


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