# Beryllium skiff build - 17.5 - NC - build log, questions, etc.



## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

Awesome! Can’t wait to follow the Beryllium is awesome. Basically post everything that goes on with the boat and I’ll be happy. Divinycell core?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

The most helpful would be documentation. Pictures and narrative.

Welcome to the forum.

Way to go @jglidden


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

So, I have received a message regarding purchasing plans. Use the info below.

Skiff designs comparisons, plans costs - email Nathan to purchase plans - [email protected]

Nathan has all plans to purchase and will send you CNC files if you chose to go that route. As a heads up, I ordered from Josh Glidden (@jglidden) on this site. He did some custom stuff for me and can customize a deck if needed too. Top notch communication and stations are being shipped now. He created a round transom for me versus using the square transom. The plans for the 17.5 and 16 don't include the round transom. So, the CNC will save time and improve accuracy in the building process...fingers crossed. I don't want to sound redundant, but Josh went above and beyond to created plans and answer my questions. I'll log setting up the jig in the next post. 

@HenryTinSkiff - I will be using PVC60 from CarbonCore. My parents live in Charlottesville, Va and I can pick up local while visiting them. PVC60 has similar characteristics to PE80 and Divinycell. I think someone used PVC60 on their boat and it worked out well. From what I can tell, the foam isn't that big of an issue other then thickness and choosing one of the three at a price point. I think Chris used Divinycell, but I don't have a history of working with one or the other like Chris...so no baseline. PVC60 is readily available too.

I am driving back to Charlotte tomorrow and will take an inventory picture/write a few notes on ordering materials and setting up the jig/stations. I'll probably add a few youtube videos eventually.


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> So, I have received a message regarding purchasing plans. Use the info below.
> 
> Skiff designs comparisons, plans costs - email Nathan to purchase plans - [email protected]
> 
> ...


Can’t wait. I may be in Charlottesville soon.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

VANMflyfishing said:


> So, I have received a message regarding purchasing plans. Use the info below.
> 
> Skiff designs comparisons, plans costs - email Nathan to purchase plans - [email protected]
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information.
Great job!


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Ok, I’m following...


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

Be careful with that Carbon Core. I am currently fairing a hull with 3 different thicknesses (from the same case) on it. Major understatement to say their quality control sucks.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

trekker said:


> Be careful with that Carbon Core. I am currently fairing a hull with 3 different thicknesses (from the same case) on it. Major understatement to say their quality control sucks.


Interesting. I’ve used IDK how many cases and have not had this issue.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

@trekker That is what Tommy said...he said he had hired a new packing guy who messed up one order. One of the perks of picking it up in person is I inspected every sheet prior to them packing it. CarbonCore wasn't my favorite people to buy from, but not the worst so far. The US composite people were great!

As a heads up, Chris mentioned Nick at smart builders will give you a deal on the basalt...not true anymore. They are now $629 per 50/yard roll for 350. I used sundaglass.com for basalt and saved $100. Not a huge savings, but my buying experience was better with sundaglass.com (James).


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

VANMflyfishing said:


> @trekker That is what Tommy said...he said he had hired a new packing guy who messed up one order. One of the perks of picking it up in person is I inspected every sheet prior to them packing it. CarbonCore wasn't my favorite people to buy from, but not the worst so far. The US composite people were great!
> 
> As a heads up, Chris mentioned Nick at smart builders will give you a deal on the basalt...not true anymore. They are now $629 per 50/yard roll for 350. I used sundaglass.com for basalt and saved $100. Not a huge savings, but my buying experience was better with sundaglass.com (James).


Musta been 2 orders. The fella who built the Captive skiff had the same issue. Regardless, glad to see another Bery being built. Look forward to following.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> @trekker That is what Tommy said...he said he had hired a new packing guy who messed up one order. One of the perks of picking it up in person is I inspected every sheet prior to them packing it. CarbonCore wasn't my favorite people to buy from, but not the worst so far. The US composite people were great!
> 
> As a heads up, Chris mentioned Nick at smart builders will give you a deal on the basalt...not true anymore. They are now $629 per 50/yard roll for 350. I used sundaglass.com for basalt and saved $100. Not a huge savings, but my buying experience was better with sundaglass.com (James).


Yeah, I think “smart builders’” pricing is all over the place myself! I will be using sundaglass for basalt should I decide to use it for the outer skin on my next build! I buy my carbon core from my supplier in Tampa cheaper than CC sells it for so haven’t really dealt directly with them much bug have had great luck with their product to date.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I used PVC60 in my build and didn't have any issues with varying thicknesses.

If you are building outside, make sure you are careful where you store your PVC -- it will degrade with UV exposure. Not sure to what extent and how long it would take, but probably not worth taking any chances.

Look forward to seeing the progress.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

@bryson Good to know. I have the box sitting in my bonus room in the house...hopefully everyone is ok with my boat building junk for the next few months. I'll plan to keep everything covered! 
Thanks.


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## Finatic7 (Feb 14, 2020)

JC Designs said:


> Yeah, I think “smart builders’” pricing is all over the place myself! I will be using sundaglass for basalt should I decide to use it for the outer skin on my next build! I buy my carbon core from my supplier in Tampa cheaper than CC sells it for so haven’t really dealt directly with them much bug have had great luck with their product to date.


@JC Designs Who's your supplier in Tampa?


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Finatic7 said:


> @JC Designs Who's your supplier in Tampa?


Jesus at Fiberglass discount store. Great guy, stocks quite a bit of the standard goodies and can order pretty much anything for you. Small business, big service kinda guy that’s been in the industry a long time!


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Current running total of materials. Building the jig this week. I'll post some pics. I am going to make a Lowe's trip for that. I have enough glass, core, but will need to order more poly. It has a 3 month shelf life unlike epoxy. Could save money if you have tools, don't do CNC, and don't use basalt. I think CNC is worth it for time, accuracy and resale value if I run out of kidneys and have to sell the boat. Basalt for long term abuse. I'll be doing a basalt deck too in addition to outside for the hull.

ItemSourceNotesTotalUnitsPrice Per UnitShipping&TaxNeeded PlansNathan $ 350.00PVC 60Carbon CoreLocal Pickup $1,110.9210​ $ 105.50 $ 55.92Basalt Cloth (350 grams 50 yard roll)SundaglassShipped $1,284.662​ $ 572.50 $ 139.66Cabosil - 10lbUS CompositesShipped $ 67.001​ $ 67.00Q-Cell - 32lbUS CompositesShipped $ 80.001​ $ 80.0010oz glass 125 yardsUS CompositesShipped $ 700.00125​ $ 5.60Peel PlyUS CompositesShipped $ 22.004​ $ 5.501.5oz mat 80 yardsUS CompositesShipped $ 185.001​ $ 185.00Mold releaseUS CompositesShipped $ 11.451​ $ 11.45Plasteline Klay 2lbUS CompositesShipped $ 8.001​ $ 8.0032 oz mixing tubeUS CompositesShipped $ 17.5025​ $ 0.702" brush - 24US CompositesShipped $ 12.251​ $ 12.254" roller frameUS CompositesShipped $ 21.608​ $ 2.704" white glasskoter covers - 36US CompositesShipped $ 52.251​ $ 52.25Stir sticks - 50US CompositesShipped $ 4.251​ $ 4.255/8" x 4" detail rollerUS CompositesShipped $ 31.004​ $ 7.754" squeegees - 25US CompositesShipped $ 10.001​ $ 10.0010" shearsUS CompositesShipped $ 31.251​ $ 31.25Power mixerUS CompositesShipped $ 6.951​ $ 6.95435 standard poly - 5 gallonUS CompositesShipped $ 553.453​ $ 128.00 $ 169.45OptionalShelter LogicFacebook $ 180.00CNCJosh Glidden $ 835.00Drill, Saw, Jig SawFacebook $ 80.00Total $5,654.53


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Current running total of materials. Building the jig this week. I'll post some pics. I am going to make a Lowe's trip for that. I have enough glass, core, but will need to order more poly. It has a 3 month shelf life unlike epoxy. Could save money if you have tools, don't do CNC, and don't use basalt. I think CNC is worth it for time, accuracy and resale value if I run out of kidneys and have to sell the boat. Basalt for long term abuse. I'll be doing a basalt deck too in addition to outside for the hull.
> 
> ItemSourceNotesTotalUnitsPrice Per UnitShipping&TaxNeededPlansNathan$ 350.00PVC 60Carbon CoreLocal Pickup$1,110.9210​$ 105.50$ 55.92Basalt Cloth (350 grams 50 yard roll)SundaglassShipped$1,284.662​$ 572.50$ 139.66Cabosil - 10lbUS CompositesShipped$ 67.001​$ 67.00Q-Cell - 32lbUS CompositesShipped$ 80.001​$ 80.0010oz glass 125 yardsUS CompositesShipped$ 700.00125​$ 5.60Peel PlyUS CompositesShipped$ 22.004​$ 5.501.5oz mat 80 yardsUS CompositesShipped$ 185.001​$ 185.00Mold releaseUS CompositesShipped$ 11.451​$ 11.45Plasteline Klay 2lbUS CompositesShipped$ 8.001​$ 8.0032 oz mixing tubeUS CompositesShipped$ 17.5025​$ 0.702" brush - 24US CompositesShipped$ 12.251​$ 12.254" roller frameUS CompositesShipped$ 21.608​$ 2.704" white glasskoter covers - 36US CompositesShipped$ 52.251​$ 52.25Stir sticks - 50US CompositesShipped$ 4.251​$ 4.255/8" x 4" detail rollerUS CompositesShipped$ 31.004​$ 7.754" squeegees - 25US CompositesShipped$ 10.001​$ 10.0010" shearsUS CompositesShipped$ 31.251​$ 31.25Power mixerUS CompositesShipped$ 6.951​$ 6.95435 standard poly - 5 gallonUS CompositesShipped$ 553.453​$ 128.00$ 169.45OptionalShelter LogicFacebook$ 180.00CNCJosh Glidden$ 835.00Drill, Saw, Jig SawFacebook$ 80.00Total$5,654.53


This is a great thing to see. When I do my build I now know something I can reference to for budgeting.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

@HenryTinSkiff I will update over time too; so, there is a running total of hull materials, rigging, motor, beer for the crew, ballpark hours, etc.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> @HenryTinSkiff I will update over time too; so, there is a running total of hull materials, rigging, motor, beer for the crew, ballpark hours, etc.


The beer is where it get expensive! 
And that brings me to the pro tip of the week: One must always make certain that the work portion of the day is completed before beer distribution begins!

This phrase copyrighted by James CurryDesigns and is not to be sold or distributed in any way... F-That, ya’ll have fun! 😎


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

If you are starting from scratch don't forget to add your PPE costs. 

One item I see that is missing are measuring cups - unless you are going to use red Solo cups.

Before you start glassing the hull you should do a calculation on the amount of resin you will need so you don't run out mid-process (if you are new to fiberglass account for 20% spoilage). Simple math in my head says 2 layers of glass and one basalt will take about 550 ounces. 5 gallons is 640. 20% waste equals 660.

Great list going Van


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

DuckNut said:


> If you are starting from scratch don't forget to add your PPE costs.
> 
> One item I see that is missing are measuring cups - unless you are going to use red Solo cups.
> 
> ...


If he uses the solo cups with poly, he’ll only do it once! 🤣


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

I plan on getting a scale to measure everything to make sure it cures right. I've did the solo cup thing on a carbon fiber tiller extension and hated it...not doing that again. I am going to use the 32oz buckets and clean with acetone if I need more. Or just order more.
y
I am doing 1.5 mat and 2 layers of basalt. 1.5 and 2 layer 10oz glass on the inside. Chris used 7 gallons for everything on the outside and 6 on the inside, including fairing and fillets. I plan to use th same amount and order more when doing bulkheads and deck.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Got some really important advice for you, it will protect your mental health throughout the course of the build.

Don't track the cost of beer consumption! 💀💀


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

Just curious Van, what made you choose the Beryllium over the Conchfish 17.5? Also what made you choose the 17.5 as I know the Beryllium can be made from 16-19 ft?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

HenryTinSkiff said:


> Just curious Van, what made you choose the Beryllium over the Conchfish 17.5? Also what made you choose the 17.5 as I know the Beryllium can be made from 16-19 ft?


The Beryllium has more free broad over the conchfish. I take my skiff in water that can get nasty pretty quick. The Beryllium is better suited for that. Also, the Beryllium has a higher weight capacity...4 people should be easy in that boat. The Conchfish would by my choice if I was only using it in skinny water. I think it is a precision tool while the Beryllium is a Swiss Army knife. 

I like the version Chris did, but cutting off a foot an a half should make the boat more manageable long term...fingers crossed. Carry capacity is about the same, you can fit it in a garage with a swing tongue, probably slightly easier to pole in tight creeks where I fish, and weight is cut down by ~50-100 pounds all said and done. I would do the 19 if I didn't have to trailer it or if the primary purpose was bay boat/family activities. The 16 is interesting, but I had a Ankona Native and a 16' Alumacraft now. The get cramped when fishing 3 people. The 17.5 seems to fit my needs.


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

VANMflyfishing said:


> The Beryllium has more free broad over the conchfish. I take my skiff in water that can get nasty pretty quick. The Beryllium is better suited for that. Also, the Beryllium has a higher weight capacity...4 people should be easy in that boat. The Conchfish would by my choice if I was only using it in skinny water. I think it is a precision tool while the Beryllium is a Swiss Army knife.
> 
> I like the version Chris did, but cutting off a foot an a half should make the boat more manageable long term...fingers crossed. Carry capacity is about the same, you can fit it in a garage with a swing tongue, probably slightly easier to pole in tight creeks where I fish, and weight is cut down by ~50-100 pounds all said and done. I would do the 19 if I didn't have to trailer it or if the primary purpose was bay boat/family activities. The 16 is interesting, but I had a Ankona Native and a 16' Alumacraft now. The get cramped when fishing 3 people. The 17.5 seems to fit my needs.


Makes perfect sense. I’m thinking about doing the 17. We’ll see.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Update:

Built a "floor" for the build to take place on. I don't have the pleasure of building in a garage; so, this will have to do. 5' wide and 16'4" long. The jig and stations will sit on this. Then, I will build the deck on this too. I used treated lumber and will use normal lumber for everything else unless I hear otherwise. Treated should be better since this will be close to the ground for a few months.

I plan to make the jig 4' wide and the stations spaces are outlined in the plans. The CNC stations are still on the road. They are in Charlotte, but not at the location. I'll outline everything else when they arrive.

I don't know how to upload videos. I'll probably do periodic combinations on youtube and an IG page - smoothangler_beryllium_17.5

Also, bought a nice sander that came in today...Everyone I have spoken with wishes they bought a better sander. So, I went big and bought the Helios H3 3D of sanders, Bosch GET75 6 inch. I found a certified reconditioned one on eBay for $260 and thought it is worth the investment.

Beer count - 8


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

Followed on Instagram.
TO upload pics: click on the picture icon and drag pic to the box that opens or tap on the box to fill (if memory serves).
Upload by phone and you can choose the size. Large works well most of the time.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> @trekker That is what Tommy said...he said he had hired a new packing guy who messed up one order. One of the perks of picking it up in person is I inspected every sheet prior to them packing it. CarbonCore wasn't my favorite people to buy from, but not the worst so far. The US composite people were great!
> 
> As a heads up, Chris mentioned Nick at smart builders will give you a deal on the basalt...not true anymore. They are now $629 per 50/yard roll for 350. I used sundaglass.com for basalt and saved $100. Not a huge savings, but my buying experience was better with sundaglass.com (James).


Nick is the guy who INTRODUCED basalt to the Microskiff group. He is the one who gave Chris the basalt for no markup, in the interest of having a known designer build the first skiff made from basalt. If he makes 50 bucks being a distributor and you feel he does not deserve to make any money by working his ass off and taking care of customers, angering the phone or emails promptly, getting them what they need when they need it, on time and helping with resins etc. then fine that's your prerogative. But as the guy who brought this to you all I deserve some credit and camaraderie in my opinion.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

Finatic7 said:


> @JC Designs Who's your supplier in Tampa?


Nick is the guy who INTRODUCED basalt to the Microskiff group. He is the one who gave Chris the basalt for no markup, in the interest of having a known designer build the first skiff made from basalt. If he makes 50 bucks being a distributor and you feel he does not deserve to make any money by working his ass off and taking care of customers, answering the phone or emails promptly, getting them what they need when they need it, on time and helping with resins etc. then fine that's your prerogative. But as the guy who brought this to you all I deserve some credit and camaraderie in my opinion.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Nick Gencarelle said:


> Nick is the guy who INTRODUCED basalt to the Microskiff group. He is the one who gave Chris the basalt for no markup, in the interest of having a known designer build the first skiff made from basalt. If he makes 50 bucks being a distributor and you feel he does not deserve to make any money by working his ass off and taking care of customers, angering the phone or emails promptly, getting them what they need when they need it, on time and helping with resins etc. then fine that's your prerogative. But as the guy who brought this to you all I deserve some credit and camaraderie in my opinion.


Nick did a fantastic job answering emails regarding product and shipping questions. I would recommend him to anyone looking to buy basalt. Nick, I will send you a separate email. 

I wanted the PW-350-13-100 weave. They quoted that weave on a few occasions, but only had SBS-13-360PW in stock which was an older weave. It came down to buying what I set out to buy. Probably very similar in application, but I wanted to stick with what I have seen other people work with, both on this site and outside.

Nick did a great job and he deserves a lot of credit for his level of service to the Microskiff community.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Nick Gencarelle said:


> Nick is the guy who INTRODUCED basalt to the Microskiff group. He is the one who gave Chris the basalt for no markup, in the interest of having a known designer build the first skiff made from basalt. If he makes 50 bucks being a distributor and you feel he does not deserve to make any money by working his ass off and taking care of customers, answering the phone or emails promptly, getting them what they need when they need it, on time and helping with resins etc. then fine that's your prerogative. But as the guy who brought this to you all I deserve some credit and camaraderie in my opinion.


I’ve no problem with the material, I’ve no personal issues with you or Mr. Morejohn. My Tampa supplier does not carry Basalt but the topic at that moment was core if I remember correctly. My only issue is that the prices for basalt “from you” tend to be all over the place. I would love to use you and your product, but I simply can not pay carbon fiber prices for it when buying full rolls. I wish you well and will say, you did get a quote back to me pretty quick but it was more expensive than what I pay for carbon fiber of the same weight and weave. I won’t go any deeper than that publicly but if you’d like to discuss further in private, we can. And I do believe you should be able to make a profit from your work and product!


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

I may have just witnessed the first mature microskiff argument.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Professional and mature.

We are all adults on here and I hope we can keep this thread fun and professional. My hopes are to share my experience in building a sick skiff...not cause arguments. We all have lives outside of Microskiff with negativity; so, no time for it here. Let's make this thread ROCK...



NEGATIVITY:


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

JC Designs said:


> I’ve no problem with the material, I’ve no personal issues with you or Mr. Morejohn. My Tampa supplier does not carry Basalt but the topic at that moment was core if I remember correctly. My only issue is that the prices for basalt “from you” tend to be all over the place. I would love to use you and your product, but I simply can not pay carbon fiber prices for it when buying full rolls. I wish you well and will say, you did get a quote back to me pretty quick but it was more expensive than what I pay for carbon fiber of the same weight and weave. I won’t go any deeper than that publicly but if you’d like to discuss further in private, we can. And I do believe you should be able to make a profit from your work and product!


Thanks for your input. Please show me a mid to high modulus carbon fiber fabric in that weight and weave at a lower price. Carbon shatters on impact by the way.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

@Nick Gencarelle -- I'm trying to figure out where basalt cloth falls with respect to strength/stiffness/price against typical e-glass, s-glass, and carbon fibers. Do you have any data comparing these materials?

According to wikipedia (*definitely* not the most reliable, I know, but the info is compiled nicely), it's slightly stiffer and stronger than e-glass, but not quite as stiff or strong as s-glass. Also, I'm assuming these are for thicker rods, though -- are these values way off for typical cloth?












@VANMflyfishing if you don't want to clutter your thread with this stuff, I'm sure we could build an entire other thread discussing pros/cons of each material. Just say the word 👍


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Nick Gencarelle said:


> Thanks for your input. Please show me a mid to high modulus carbon fiber fabric in that weight and weave at a lower price. Carbon shatters on impact by the way.


Give me a little while and I will certainly do. It all goes to hell on impact to be honest. I’ve done too many impact repairs to count over the last two decades.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Nick Gencarelle said:


> Thanks for your input. Please show me a mid to high modulus carbon fiber fabric in that weight and weave at a lower price. Carbon shatters on impact by the way.


Help yourself out here, can you post up a full roll pricing for 11oz 370ish gsm 2x2 twill basalt. Also the fiber count per tow please? Also, 50” width or whatever your common width is I believe I’ve mostly seen it in 38” wide but know you can get wider too.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

All good. 

Interesting stuff for sure. From what I can tell, basalt has the best "give" with strength. If anyone wants to send me 1'x3' pieces, I'll do a quick test. I used carbon fiber for a few different things. I love the strength and weight, but it is prone to cracks under stress. I plan to use this boat and don't want to baby it. So, if y'all want to see real world applications, I'll layup 2 layer and 1 layer & drop a 15lb anchor on it from 3 feet and see what happens. Might be fun. I ordered 10oz Eglass and 350gram basalt, feel free to send something else. Nick might be able to provide the nitty gritty, but I'm concerned with dragging over oysters or dropping a yeti cooler on the deck.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Don’t believe everything you hear...




It’s tougher than the credit it gets!


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

JC Designs said:


> Don’t believe everything you hear...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not debating it. I used one layer of 12K carbon fiber for a tiller extension and it was super strong and light. 

With that said, I'd like to see a static test of each. Layup 2 layers of each material and use the same weight at same impact angle. Who knows how many layers that person used and they aren't striking it square so energy isn't going straight into the material. I like the "hammer" test Chris did. I'd be shocked if carbon fiber didn't have micro cracks. 

I think this is a CarbonCore PE80 vs PVC60 conversation. Work with what you are comfortable with.

Everyone has an opinion and it you like using carbon fiber, keep it up! 

Chris's plans leave out a lot of information since he wants you to "adapt" to what you want. Based on my research, basalt is the best for me.


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## Moonpie (May 12, 2020)

Van -

You are obviously a detail oriented individual and I am very much looking forward to your build. Thank you for taking the time and effort to document it for us.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

JC Designs said:


> Help yourself out here, can you post up a full roll pricing for 11oz 370ish gsm 2x2 twill basalt. Also the fiber count per tow please? Also, 50” width or whatever your common width is I believe I’ve mostly seen it in 38” wide but know you can get wider too.


Full roll of our 350 gram plain weave 39.4 inch wide 13 micron 50 meters long (164 feet) is $10.50 a square yard plus shipping. We do not normally put one size fits all prices because multiple rolls bring great discounts and shipping costs are different-we ship from Houston. 12.7 x 12.7 yarns per inch We have 50 inch wide in bi-axials or satins. Most of our fabrics are 39.4 inch wide one meter. 50 meters long.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> All good.
> 
> Interesting stuff for sure. From what I can tell, basalt has the best "give" with strength. If anyone wants to send me 1'x3' pieces, I'll do a quick test. I used carbon fiber for a few different things. I love the strength and weight, but it is prone to cracks under stress. I plan to use this boat and don't want to baby it. So, if y'all want to see real world applications, I'll layup 2 layer and 1 layer & drop a 15lb anchor on it from 3 feet and see what happens. Might be fun. I ordered 10oz Eglass and 350gram basalt, feel free to send something else. Nick might be able to provide the nitty gritty, but I'm concerned with dragging over oysters or dropping a yeti cooler on the deck.


Chris made a video showing him hitting same thickness panels of basalt, fiberglass and carbon and the hammer goes right through them except it bounces off the basalt. Proof is in the pudding.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

bryson said:


> @Nick Gencarelle -- I'm trying to figure out where basalt cloth falls with respect to strength/stiffness/price against typical e-glass, s-glass, and carbon fibers. Do you have any data comparing these materials?
> 
> According to wikipedia (*definitely* not the most reliable, I know, but the info is compiled nicely), it's slightly stiffer and stronger than e-glass, but not quite as stiff or strong as s-glass. Also, I'm assuming these are for thicker rods, though -- are these values way off for typical cloth?
> 
> ...


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

When there is a blister in the gel coat basalt does not soak it up like fiberglass-it gets wet on the surface but dries out. It handles salts FAR better than fiberglass, is UV immune, safer to work with, recyclable with the right resins, a ten times better electrical insulator and a better thermal insulator. It does not harbor bacterial or microbial growth and can handle hundreds of degrees hotter and colder temperatures.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

Basalt is in the category of an S-glass but much less expensive. For any volumes not the small few yards things, our prices are greatly discounted. It takes impact mch better than most all other fibers -even Kevlar in a wider area-Kevlar is better for bullets not blasts. And again much more expensive than Basalt.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Nick Gencarelle said:


> Chris made a video showing him hitting same thickness panels of basalt, fiberglass and carbon and the hammer goes right through them except it bounces off the basalt. Proof is in the pudding.


The panels were not identical, he said it himself! I’ll post up the CF pricing in just a bit and this will be everyone’s pricing not multi roll bulk discounts.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Nick Gencarelle said:


> Full roll of our 350 gram plain weave 39.4 inch wide 13 micron 50 meters long (164 feet) is $10.50 a square yard plus shipping. We do not normally put one size fits all prices because multiple rolls bring great discounts and shipping costs are different-we ship from Houston. 12.7 x 12.7 yarns per inch We have 50 inch wide in bi-axials or satins. Most of our fabrics are 39.4 inch wide one meter. 50 meters long.


I’m going to start another thread, we have derailed this one way too much already and I’d like to apologize to the op. But you didn’t quote me for the material I asked for so now I have to go back and find something comparable to your quote. I’ll add the link to the new post here for those interested but after that will only be watching this build and offering any of my professional non sales related advise, James.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Carbon fiber vs basalt pricing


Alright, here goes it! While I didn’t get the quote I asked for, I found a comparable strength carbon fiber as well as the weight weave I asked our resident basalt salesman for. Now those of you that know me, know I believe in transparency and honesty. The Carbon fiber prices I am fixing to show...




www.microskiff.com




Ok, please take the BS over to this thread and allow OP to share his build here.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Haha @JC Designs thanks for not hijacking the thread. I am interested though!

Strong back cut out and placed down. Stations and foam this weekend. 

Beer count - 11


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Haha @JC Designs I am interested though.


Yep,


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

The link is post 51 if interested. Try to make out my babbling and ask questions please. I through it together rather quick and still gathering some stuff to share. Happy to help you all as always! I just enjoy sharing what God gave me and take pride in knowing that I at least try to steer ya’ll in the right direction so you can build the best boat that you can build for your budget and time.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Nick Gencarelle said:


> Full roll of our 350 gram plain weave 39.4 inch wide 13 micron 50 meters long (164 feet) is $10.50 a square yard plus shipping. We do not normally put one size fits all prices because multiple rolls bring great discounts and shipping costs are different-we ship from Houston. 12.7 x 12.7 yarns per inch We have 50 inch wide in bi-axials or satins. Most of our fabrics are 39.4 inch wide one meter. 50 meters long.


@JC Designs you are right...much different than what I was quotes.

@Nick Gencarelle I would suggest listing this as the price and sticking with it. This is a great price, but considerably different than what I was quoted last week. If you stick with this price, you will get many buyers. Otherwise, you will deter people from doing business with you. I run a financial planning practice and client satisfaction in the process is paramount above measures. 

Let's change gears...

What's everyone's favorite beer? I feel like I might need to stock up over the next few weeks.


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

Seems like a solid start. Keep it going.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> @JC Designs you are right...much different than what I was quotes.
> 
> @Nick Gencarelle I would suggest listing this as the price and sticking with it. This is a great price, but considerably different than what I was quoted last week. If you stick with this price, you will get many buyers. Otherwise, you will deter people from doing business with you. I run a financial planning practice and client satisfaction in the process is paramount above measures.
> 
> ...


We normally quote in square meters not square yards so that might be where the disconnect happened. All I know is that we are a very very small shop and work very hard to supply our customers with the best products and services we can. My wife gets mad at me for answering the phone after hours and on weekends. I actually pick up the phone or return calls immediately. We are not some large corporate company that makes miles of stuff but has no real service or answers to technical questions or insights as to layup, resins, fabrications, hybrids, whatever. I pride myself on client satisfactions. You may have known about basalt but I can assure you over 90% of the others never even heard of it. I am the one trying to bring it to people who can make boats and many other things and get us real feedback to help in making it a better product. Appreciate any help in that regard.


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## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

VANMflyfishing said:


> What's everyone's favorite beer? I feel like I might need to stock up over the next few weeks.


For the past year of my rebuild, I've been keeping Pabst and local breweries (Palmetto and Cooper River) in business. If I kept a beer count, I'm sure my wife would have me in weekly meetings. Keep up the progress


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

VANMflyfishing said:


> What's everyone's favorite beer? I feel like I might need to stock up over the next few weeks.


I have to stick with the water beers when I'm working.

If I drink those high-gravity beers my cuts are perfect when I make them, but wobbly the next day for some mysterious reason.


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## KWGator (Apr 22, 2019)

I am enjoying the discussions and beer count on this thread but I am not sure that Rolling Rock counts as a real beer to me.....I guess maybe I am a bit biased from wasting money on a keg in college that no one enjoyed and back then (as it is now), free beer made lots of new friends, but bad free beer kept them from coming back.

I am not building anything right now but have been trying to support as many small/local breweries as possible because to me, variety is my favorite part of drinking beer! I love the new Belgians, Wits, Wheats, and even a few new sour beers that I have tried during the pandemic.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Any tips on keeping humidity down in this tent? I am putting tarps down to kill grass and approaching fall shouldn’t help. Any ST fixes? 

CNC came in thanks to @jglidden. Josh went aboveand beyond to answer question, create the rounded transom and even a deck mold. Hit him up when you’re ready to build. I used him to save time and frustration. 

I support a lot of local breweries when I can. Y’all we see a few Cville beers from time to time. Rolling rock was 50% off and that’s what by buddy bought. Beggars can’t be choosers I guess . I throw is some wheats and heffs soon before the summer is over. @Copahee Hound Cooper River is really good. I’ll try to pick some up when I am there next. My GF lives that way so I might make a trip. 

PS - all drinking is done after building. Drinking and power tools never mix.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Any tips on keeping humidity down in this tent? I am putting tarps down to kill grass and approaching fall shouldn’t help. Any ST fixes?


Might want to vent the top/roof of your structure.
Cut s 3" slit and then you will have to suspend another tarp over the OEM structure.
This should help w/the humidity/letting air flow and the tarps on the ground will help as well if that are not outside of the OEM structure to collect dew etc.



> CNC came in thanks to @jglidden. Josh went aboveand beyond to answer question, create the rounded transom and even a deck mold. Hit him up when you’re ready to build. I used him to save time and frustration.


Was the deck mold extra cost?
Looking good so far.
Great job.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

What do you think the weight of this boat is gonna be (ballpark)?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

@Rollbar yes the deck is a little extra. I don't know my deck layout yet so may or may not do it. Josh sent me a custom rendering and could cut it out. I'll try some PVC pipes to vent. That's a good idea to vent it with a hole. I am going to try to get total weight around 600-650. One rear and one forward hatch. I'm thinking tall side console so I can stand and ride while keeping cockpit open. Super simple otherwise. A yeti can fit in the back hatch due to depth and I plan to use that if I ever want to keep fish or something. 

Eventual additions:
rigging - steering, wires, etc.
motor - Suzuki 60hp or Tohatsu 60hp
side console
~20 gallon aluminum tank
GPS maybe - I used a Garmin but open to other options
Minn Kota up from - 55 or 70 - havent decided 
push pole - TFO 24'
poling platform
trailer

If anyone has a guy or an opinion of buying any of the above, let me know in a PM.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Strong back set and first half of stations done today. I spend a lot of time making sure the strong back was set correctly. Honestly, it’s not super important...the stations fit together tight and it’s more important when I screw the verticals to the base. TBC tomorrow.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Strong back officially completed and stations are up. I’ll finish all jig stuff this week and start foaming when it’s not raining. 

Tips so far:
The important pieces of the strong back are spacing and being level. Other pieces aren’t too important. 
Put the stations together all at one time. so set the strong-back then place the stations then attach the keel.


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

Speed demon


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Looking good.


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## Charles Hadley (Jan 20, 2019)

When you get closer to needing a poling platform I have one for sale,pm for info


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Stations are up on the strongback and all materials are in. Attaching shear flange tomorrow and transom tomorrow.


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## Chris Beutel (May 2, 2018)

Looking good. I cannot believe I didn't see this thread earlier.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Chris Beutel said:


> Looking good. I cannot believe I didn't see this thread earlier.


As a suggestion, the op may want to think about moving this thread over to the "Bragging Spot" as that is where most of the build threads are.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

@Pole Position let me know how to do that. I don’t know how. 

Transom and forms are on! I didn’t do form E just cut custom pieces. Looking back. I would have done what Chris Morejohn did and lined them up with the chines and cut two verticals. I lined up the top vertical piece with the chine like so it will be a straight line. I want to make sure they are pretty close to perfect and I’ll foam later this week. Realistically, I can fix everything with fairing, but I’d like to eliminate as much as possible 

If anyone has tips on foam let me know. Also, what should I do with the cut out MD board?


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Just ask @anytide to move it, not sure if it’s possible but believe it is when you have the magic wand!


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

Are you gonna donate the mold when you're done? I know a guy that might want it. Me.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

HenryTinSkiff said:


> Are you gonna donate the mold when you're done? I know a guy that might want it. Me.


I already asked just after he bought it.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

I'll probably sell everything left over (forms, resin, glass, etc.) at a deep discount and donate a portion of the money to a charity I support - Waypoint Vets. I will hopefully pop the hull by the end of Sept. So, if anyone is interested in the stations, just let me know in a PM. First come first serve. I am located in Charlotte, NC, but I frequent SC, NC coast, and Virginia and I will be willing to put them on a pallet for you. @Rollbar did say he was interested, but not 100% yet. So, @HenryTinSkiff just let me know.


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## HenryTinSkiff (Jan 14, 2020)

First come first serve my bad rollbar.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

HenryTinSkiff said:


> First come first serve my bad rollbar.


No worries, If he is ready to pull and you are closer to building than I am, then it's all yours.
IF you get rid of them, then I'm up first.
Thanks,


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Slow going with rain the past week and traveling this week. I used cardboard to make a template, cut one side for the foam, fit it on one side and cut out the other side s musings it as a template. I and sanding down the sides so it a tight fit. I forgot to add some wax to the tape and went back to add one layer of release wax. Some say it’s not needed and others say it is. So might as well do it. I’ll be cutting the chines and using 3-1/2” strips everywhere else. I definitely want to touch up the foam to eliminate low spots. The is one on the bow. Maybe the foam is touching the sheer form and putting pressure causing a small curve. 

I’m putting short videos on the Instagram - smoothangler_beryllium_17.5


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Almost done foaming everything in. Traveling and rain have really slowed down progress. Looking to finish foam today, then precut all my glass during the rain this week so I can glass when the humidity slows down. 

Question for someone...do the same humidity rules apply to adding resin to the core?

Next steps - sand down/fill the seams, fill screw holes, shape core, resin that bad boy, fillets, clean, then glass. I'll post pics soon.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Yeah, I wouldn't do too much if humidity is high.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

What is the min/max HP rating for this hull?
Thanks,


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Rollbar said:


> What is the min/max HP rating for this hull?
> Thanks,


I am going to run a 60 for weight and full economy. You could probably run a 30hp and hit mid 20’s if built light. Max would be 90/115. Similar hull to the Floyd skiff which runs 90 Suzuki but 115 could get by I bet.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

> The Beryllium skiff can be built using my inner chine pocket detail or you can go with the deep vee version and conventional chines.


What is the main difference, AND which one is preferred?
Thanks,


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Foam is on and time to shape it! The bow is off by a hair and was hard to figure out since the foam is slightly bowed. I just loosened the screws and the low spots eased. I’ll make sure to sand it down prior to glass. Same with the steer. I would have make smaller verticals for the rounded transom. It would eliminate more filler Andre sanding.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Rollbar said:


> What is the main difference, AND which one is preferred?
> Thanks,


I'm not a professional boat builder, so don't quote me on this...pocket chines are different in the angle and location. They are on the conchfish and Lithium I think. This is one of the main advantages of the beryllium. They don't do the pocket chines. Maybe someone that has built a CF can explain better.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Ok Chris messaged me and said the beryllium does have the pocket chine which is the lower chine panel. It is similar to a reverse chine versus a smooth transition. For some reason I thought I read that the chines are easier on the beryllium than the Conchfish. Chris's message " to answer from Microskiff site. The chine pockets are on all my designs. the vertical sides act like keels when poling and rest help in diverting water spray down and outward. all my designs can be built with conventional chines if wanted. They make a slightly faster skiff, but slide in turns, no keel, and are wetter. Hence my proven pocket design." The godfather hast spoken. Pocket chines for the win!


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## m32825 (Jun 29, 2018)

Can someone post a picture of a hull with an arrow pointing to the pocket chine? I am trying to follow the conversation but my ignorance keeps getting in the way. Thanks!


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

m32825 said:


> Can someone post a picture of a hull with an arrow pointing to the pocket chine? I am trying to follow the conversation but my ignorance keeps getting in the way. Thanks!


It is the chine on the back half of the boat below the waterline.


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## Salt (Mar 19, 2019)




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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

The pocket chine is the bottom detail on the aft section of the skiff. Seen on this skiff and the conchfish builds. It's the step inward that you see that he is referring to. 

The conventional chine is on boats such as your standard seafox or key west. They go all the way to the waterline. It will float a little higher ( almost unnoticeable) and will be slightly faster. Though it can slide in a high speed turn and will be a wetter ride because the water will travel up from not haveing the brake in the side of the boat and sharp edge. Hope this helps, Michael


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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> View attachment 155770
> 
> View attachment 155771
> 
> ...


How do you plane to even out all the different sections of foam? Do you think this will be quicker than taking the time to make the fit better from the start?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Mike Haydon said:


> How do you plane to even out all the different sections of foam? Do you think this will be quicker than taking the time to make the fit better from the start?


I plan on using the low RPM setting on my sander and an 18' long board. I smoothed it out last night and wasn't that bad at all. I wish I would have used a table saw, but I used a jig saw instead. Regardless, you will have high spots where they come together; so, that time is gonna be the same. I'd probably save time doing the seam filler, but I don't have space for a table saw.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

First night shaping. I’m going to get it done tonight and try to put the filler in.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

I just eMail Chris and asked if this can work w/wood (Okoume or Meranti).


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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> I plan on using the low RPM setting on my sander and an 18' long board. I smoothed it out last night and wasn't that bad at all. I wish I would have used a table saw, but I used a jig saw instead. Regardless, you will have high spots where they come together; so, that time is gonna be the same. I'd probably save time doing the seam filler, but I don't have space for a table saw.


Thanks, that was what I was hoping you would say. No need to spend extra time when the sanding step is inevitable!


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## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

Rollbar said:


> I just eMail Chris and asked if this can work w/wood (Okoume or Meranti).


I believe the first Conchfish was built out of wood by a team of guys on project dreamboat.


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

Copahee Hound said:


> I believe the first Conchfish was built out of wood by a team of guys on project dreamboat.


I'll have to find it.


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## Pole Position (Apr 3, 2016)

Rollbar said:


> I'll have to find it.


..pretty sure it was a cedar strip built by Eric Kimes ( Mountolive ). He is also building the Puffer Fish that is in Chris' pinned thread ( 2nd post) on this forum.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BfGizMkDzZk/


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## Rollbar (Oct 20, 2016)

Pole Position said:


> ..pretty sure it was a cedar strip built by eric kimes ( Mountolive ). It would be too labor intensive to do a stitch/glue, imho.


Ok thanks,


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Seems and cracks are all filled in. I’ll post an updated picture...forgot to take one last night. 
I sanded down the foam before adding the filler and I think that is the best way to do it. Otherwise, the sand paper will create cuts in the foam when going over the filler. Humidity has been a killer for curing here. It takes a day to cure if done at night time. I'd recommend doing the resin in the AM and letting it cure throughout the day. Sanding isn't that bad. I'll probably bite my tongue in a few weeks...I added filler to the bottom edge. You could cut the foam at an angle to fit snug or add filler. I mixed the resin with Q-cell glass bubbles, put it in a dixie bowl, then in a Glad 1gallon freezer bag to pipe out. Move quick as the resin does harden in the bag...

I should be ready to glass next week. I plan on doing one or two fairing passes then flipping and glassing the inside the following week.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

Hey gents, I’m back from the dead. One question I’ve wondered ever since hearing and reading up on the mechanical properties of basalt is... how does sonar perform when shooting through a hull of basalt??? Anyone have any real world experience?


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Rick hambric said:


> Hey gents, I’m back from the dead. One question I’ve wondered ever since hearing and reading up on the mechanical properties of basalt is... how does sonar perform when shooting through a hull of basalt??? Anyone have any real world experience?


Rick, I can not confirm with any certainty... But my guess is it will do just fine given the nature of the material. Sonar shoots through a glass hull just fine “provided proper install” and glass being made from silica which at some point was rock. And basalt being made from rock, I would assume through the manufacturing process of the two that they would probably act similar in this case.

Then again... basalt being made directly from rock, your screen may just be a big red screen? 😂


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

It’s electrical insulation properties is why I ask. Maybe we can get the basalt guy to chime in.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Rick hambric said:


> Hey gents, I’m back from the dead. One question I’ve wondered ever since hearing and reading up on the mechanical properties of basalt is... how does sonar perform when shooting through a hull of basalt??? Anyone have any real world experience?


From what I have read, you should grind out a small patch of basalt and replace with fiberglass for optimal performance.


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## albrighty_then (Jan 11, 2017)

I don't mean to detail but a quick question, I just lucked out and got a 2000 40hp yami for free, would a 40 push a beryllium well? I'm looking to start a build in January.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

albrighty_then said:


> I don't mean to detail but a quick question, I just lucked out and got a 2000 40hp yami for free, would a 40 push a beryllium well? I'm looking to start a build in January.


It would, if the Beryllium was built with the 40hp in mind! So a light build schedule. If the 40 is a 2 stroke, and I was gonna run it on a Beryllium & provided it was mechanically sound. $1000 and the Hydrotec phase kit will make that 40 in to a 60! Worth every penny! Easy bolt on mostly factory parts!


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

albrighty_then said:


> I don't mean to detail but a quick question, I just lucked out and got a 2000 40hp yami for free, would a 40 push a beryllium well? I'm looking to start a build in January.





JC Designs said:


> It would, if the Beryllium was built with the 40hp in mind! So a light build schedule. If the 40 is a 2 stroke, and I was gonna run it on a Beryllium & provided it was mechanically sound. $1000 and the Hydrotec phase kit will make that 40 in to a 60! Worth every penny! Easy bolt on mostly factory parts!


Hit me up if you have any questions on the kit or need help on a lamination schedule that will be strong yet light enough for the 40.


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## albrighty_then (Jan 11, 2017)

JC Designs said:


> Hit me up if you have any questions on the kit or need help on a lamination schedule that will be strong yet light enough for the 40.


Awesome that's what I needed to hear man, I'll keep you in mind when I get started I appreciate it. I just read your thread on the hydrotec I think that's the way to go


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

albrighty_then said:


> Awesome that's what I needed to hear man, I'll keep you in mind when I get started I appreciate it. I just read your thread on the hydrotec I think that's the way to go


Yes sir! Well worth the coin for a sound motor! When you decide on a build just let me know!


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

JC Designs said:


> Yes sir! Well worth the coin for a sound motor! When you decide on a build just let me know!


James (JC Designs) knows his stuff. I've bugged him a few times and he provides amazing advice. 

I'm planning on a Tohatsu 60 for mine after reading reviews of that vs. the suzuki 60. Feel free to leave comments on long term performance of either. If I were going the 30hp tiller route, I'd build it super light similar to a no floor whipray. No floor, two seats in the rear similar to the first Lithium skiff, one big dry hatch up front. You could probably build the 17.5 around 600/550 with the right layup. You could also build the Beryllium 16 model...

Current progress on mine. I am starting to lay the basalt on the hull. I had a minor setback this past weekend and am out of town this week. So, I started glassing and the first section went great. The mat that hung over the section 2 (~10") cured prior to me laying section 2. So, the glass that was placed over that created a lot of bubbles. To be clear, I've done minimal glass work before...I should have just waited and sanded the mat, but I was in a rush because weather was all over the place. Now I will have to go back and grind out the bubble and patch the whole section. Not a huge problem, but not how I wanted the glassing to start. I also found that the fiberglass rollers are great, but I prefer to wet it out and use the sqeegees instead.

The core is soaked so I will get back to it when I am back in town. quick sand and back to glassing.

I'll upload pics when I'm back in town.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

VANMflyfishing said:


> James (JC Designs) knows his stuff. I've bugged him a few times and he provides amazing advice.
> 
> I'm planning on a Tohatsu 60 for mine after reading reviews of that vs. the suzuki 60. Feel free to leave comments on long term performance of either. If I were going the 30hp tiller route, I'd build it super light similar to a no floor whipray. No floor, two seats in the rear similar to the first Lithium skiff, one big dry hatch up front. You could probably build the 17.5 around 600/550 with the right layup. You could also build the Beryllium 16 model...
> 
> ...



I haven't found that rollers are _that_ useful as of yet. I can see if one was working a big stack of csm, they would be invaluable to get the air out. I've pretty much been using small foam rollers and my hands to work out any bubbles.

What is your target hull weight on this build?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Sublime said:


> I haven't found that rollers are _that_ useful as of yet. I can see if one was working a big stack of csm, they would be invaluable to get the air out. I've pretty much been using small foam rollers and my hands to work out any bubbles.


Thats what I found too. I will only use the rollers in the future for the deck and maybe the floor. 

One thing I found is the resin in between the grooves cured while I was preparing the last piece of glass. So, there were these are pieces of resin that feel out of the grooves. Not a huge problem, but frustrating.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

I like to hard roll everything. Peel ply is also your friend. Wet it all out good and use your brushes/squeegees/ and nap rollers then apply the peel ply and hard roll. The peel ply will soak up the excess resin for you


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I was a big fan of pouring resin on and using a squeegee to move it around, then following it up with the bubble roller (finned aluminum roller). I was using all cloth though, no mat.

Once I got some larger/bigger rollers that could load up with resin a little more, I ended up liking them to wet out the cloth. I still followed with a squeegee and bubble roller though. I didn't like the small diameter rollers very much when it came to wetting out cloth.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Another trick for soaking any excess resin it to run a dry roller over the part lightly after squeegee or hard roller.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

JC Designs said:


> Another trick for soaking any excess resin it to run a dry roller over the part lightly after squeegee or hard roller.


I just pushed the excess resin to the gutter at the bottom where the flange is. Probably not the best option, but it's a learning process. 

I feel like anyone reading this thread that wants to start a boat build will learn all the mistakes I am making. I'm gonna be an open book, but there won't be a fine skiff once this bad boy is done...at least that's my thought.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

You are doing fine!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I did not see where you are wetting out the foam first with resin before you lay the cloth on. Doing so will ensure you don't end up with dry glass. Ignore this if that is what you are doing.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Fairing pass number one is on. I cut out all the bubbles and reglassed a those sections. If I had to sand down to the core, I added silica to the resin and made a paste to fill the void left. Turned out pretty good. I put peel ply over the patches. On to sanding layer number one. I did don’t put fairing in the gutter s at the bottom. I’ll do that on number two works three when I can clean up the excess resin that was pushed down.


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## 99Whip (Oct 13, 2020)

Looking great Alex. How long did it take to get that first layer of fairing compound down?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

99Whip said:


> Looking great Alex. How long did it take to get that first layer of fairing compound down?


It took around 5.5 hours to put the fairing down. The fairing doesn't take that long to spread, but the mixing takes a long time. One side is a little healthier than the other. I ran out of MEKP (poly hardener) and was able to find some at AutoZone. Taking your time and laying it thick is probably best. If you had help, have one person spread and one person mix the whole time. I had mixed everything, but if you're continuously mixing, just use a drill mixer. Could probably cut to 4 hours with two people. You could save time by ordering premix, but that's a lot more money.

It was around 3 hours to hand sand the basalt edges too. If I were to do this build again, I'd lay peel ply on the seems or lay the cloth horizonal so the frayed edge is in the chine and you could lay the fillet right on top of it. I think that's what Chris did, but that's a lot me time cutting cloth and I didn't have that space to lay everything out. The seems dry hard then you have these 1/4" basalt fibers sticking up.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

VANMflyfishing said:


> It took around 5.5 hours to put the fairing down. The fairing doesn't take that long to spread, but the mixing takes a long time. One side is a little healthier than the other. I ran out of MEKP (poly hardener) and was able to find some at AutoZone. Taking your time and laying it thick is probably best. If you had help, have one person spread and one person mix the whole time. I had mixed everything, but if you're continuously mixing, just use a drill mixer. Could probably cut to 4 hours with two people. You could save time by ordering premix, but that's a lot more money.
> 
> It was around 3 hours to hand sand the basalt edges too. If I were to do this build again, I'd lay peel ply on the seems or lay the cloth horizonal so the frayed edge is in the chine and you could lay the fillet right on top of it. I think that's what Chris did, but that's a lot me time cutting cloth and I didn't have that space to lay everything out. The seems dry hard then you have these 1/4" basalt fibers sticking up.



I had the same issues with the edges of my basalt. I was working real slow when I was laying that up and I would let each layer cure. It was easy to then come back through with my mini belt sander and knock the edges down.

I only partially faired the bottom before I flipped to see if I had any huge issues. Luckily I did not. I need to make a spreader of some sort with a 90 degree notch in it. Getting fairing on the edges of the chines was hard, so I gave up lol


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

I’ve rough sanded hen whole thing. Took around 3-4 sanding hours. Below are some examples of higher and lower spots. Where the glass shows through is higher. I didn’t want to spend a lot of time on pass number one without stepping back and looking at everything. It should be nice on Saturday and i plan to open up the doors and check it out from a distance.


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## Nick Gencarelle (Aug 19, 2019)

Rick hambric said:


> It’s electrical insulation properties is why I ask. Maybe we can get the basalt guy to chime in.


Been traveling for months- back now. Basalt is considered to have far more electrical insulation value than fiberglass the Russians used it as a stealth material and for impact properties.


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## RVC (Dec 30, 2020)

@VANMflyfishing - Does your materials list in Post #17 include the deck, or do these quantities represent only the hull? It looks as though these quantities correspond to the complete boat. I am comparing your estimates to those of Chris's for the Lithium build he posted in 2017.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

I bought everything all at once. I’ll have a lot of glass left over, but will need to order more resin, get some plywood for the deck, and rigging. I also had to build a space with was around $400. I’ve been MIA as I have to quarantine with travel. If you want an updated budget sheet, send me an email. [email protected]. It’s going to be around 35 gallons of resin. The hull was around 30 yards of basalt plus mat. ~14 gallons of resin so far for glassing and fairing one thick layer.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Sanding round one done. I’m pretty happy with it! I used a Bosch sander for the majority and block sanded the rest. I’d buy the Bosch sander 10 times over. I’d be interested in hearing about those electric flex sanders. A block sander builds character so I’m not too worried about it! Not a ton of highs or lows. The lows are easy to recognize. A few small bubbles found in the crease at the bottom of the flange and chine. Not too worried as the aren’t in big problem areas. I’ll fill with resin mixed with silica/Qcell mix. Should harden up fine as there is still a layer of glass underneath.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Flipped the hull today! I’m going to work on the inside, trace the deck, then flip it over outside for strakes/fairing/paint so I can do the deck inside the tent. Poly has a shelf life so I don’t want it just sitting around while I clean up the inside. 

I’m pretty happy with the first two fairing runs.

I feel like a proud dad haha


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Reduce, reuse, recycle!! 


I’m using the leftover MDF, throwaway trim, and used clay to build a casting platform. There was excess glass that was cutaway from the hull that I’ll use in addition to foam throwaways. I’ll do one layers of glass and foam in addition to one with ~15 layers of glass alternating glass and matt.

good practice for the deck and hatch molds.

Really not wanting to waste more than I have to and casting platforms are cool


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## 99Whip (Oct 13, 2020)

That's a great idea, I like it.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Glassing the inside this weekend. Had to take some time off...I got some carbon core in my eye and scratched my cornea. I’ll be wearing my eye protection. It’s been raining a 40 degrees for the last month too. Not fun. The inside has been smoothed out for glassing, fillets put in, spray rails rounded, and stress points cut out. I cut out the bow & stern eyes, splash well & channel, and trim tabs. I want to make those areas strong. I’m not as concerned with the inside fairing, but it’s going to be nice! Same as Chris’s layup - two layers to the upper spray rail then one to the flange. Should be ready to rock and roll!


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

The inside is glassed and bulkheads have been cut. I extended the transom glass around 10" up the sides for added strength. The bulkheads we glassed in a complete sheet and cut out. Saved time glassing, but there are some bubbles...nothing too bad that can't be fixed. Should be down with the inside by the end of next month!


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## hillcharl (Feb 7, 2011)

How's the build going? Any updates?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

hillcharl said:


> How's the build going? Any updates?


Build is going pretty well. On fairing round 3. Should be doing the poling strakes this week or next. Trailer is pretty much ready to go to. I'll take some pictures soon!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

It's interesting that they also recovered a Chris Morejohn designed skiff with the Vasa warship that the Vikings used back then (shown bottom right of the photo). "Built to stand the test of time!"


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Haha, the cyborg boat builder switching it up from Viking ships to poling skiffs. He does know what he is doing.

Long story short, I've had a lot of stuff happen that is taking time away from the boat build: bought a house, moving, the city said the tent garage isn't code, etc. Progress since my last post: glassed the inside, glassed 2 4'x8' pieces of foam and cut out all bulkheads/splashwell/forms, almost done with fairing. Below were my findings for each.

Glassing the inside:
I did the same cut outs as Chris for the trim tabs and splash well, but I added them for the bow/stern eyes. I'd connect the splash well and the trim tab cut out if I did it again. That little bump in between caused an issue for me when glassing since there is too much going on there for the glass to want to lay down super easy. I did 2 layers for solid glass for the transom, then added 4 layers for overlapping support when I added the second layer of foam. I put the putty in and laid the glass while it was still wet which turned out great and saved a lot of time. The glass didn't want to lay down well on the flange edge so I just took it up. It's not going to make a difference in the long term.

Bulkheads:
The first round I tried plastic over MDF...I would not advise haha. It created a lot of delaminated spots since the plastic scrunched up. I just drilled out the spots and sent resin in there with a plastic syringe. The second round, I waxed the MDF and that worked great. If you do this, I would soak the foam before you place it on the wet glass. I used popsicle sticks taped to cardboard to find the spacing.

Fairing:
FAIR FOAM FIRST. I sanded the foam a lot from the lower chine up to the bow and fairing didn't take long at all up there. I didn't sand the running pad and there was a 1/4" low spot. The negative thing is I have to add fairing compound to the running pad and the two panels on either side, sand that, then do it again. I have found it easier to barely sand the top layer and add compound where you know you need it. I use a straight edge and a pencil to make low spots. I want to make it close to perfect before adding the strakes. I find painting tape to be super helpful to mark straight edges to save time. Also, doing this outside sucks. As you pour the compound strong wind has made a mess...can't wait to get it in the garage at the new house. I am close to being done which is the nice part. I am on the last round with the chines down to the flange edge. The bow and the running pad area need a little extra work. The transom needs one more pass. I would totally buy an electric fairing board if I were to start a new build...

Trailer:
I bought an ez tow trailer for $200 on facebook and have replaced all hardware while touching up any discolored spots with cold galvanizing spray. It was made for a scout 172'; so, it is overkill for capacity. It should last awhile and with <$400, should work fine.

Next steps:
Move, finish fairing, strakes, fairing, primer/paint, flip, work on inside.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks for the update! It's tough to have to move an "in-work" project of this magnitude; glad to hear you're still making progress. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

bryson said:


> Thanks for the update! It's tough to have to move an "in-work" project of this magnitude; glad to hear you're still making progress. Good luck and keep us posted!


No kidding. The good news is the new house has a two car garage; so, I can do whatever I need to do all night. 

I had a tent garage in my backyard, but the city sent me a notice that someone complained. Since then, momentum has been slow since I can only work on sunny days after work or on the weekend.

PS your boat is looking sweet! We should link up sometime since I'm in NC. I go down your way quite a bit.


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## Mike Haydon (Dec 19, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Flipped the hull today! I’m going to work on the inside, trace the deck, then flip it over outside for strakes/fairing/paint so I can do the deck inside the tent. Poly has a shelf life so I don’t want it just sitting around while I clean up the inside.
> 
> I’m pretty happy with the first two fairing runs.
> 
> ...


It's so cool how in the shadows of your pic you can see Chris's line drawings. The triangle pad really shows up well in this pic!


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

@VANMflyfishing awesome work on the skiff! What kind of drift boat is under the cover?


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

flyfisheraa573 said:


> @VANMflyfishing awesome work on the skiff! What kind of drift boat is under the cover?


Thanks! It is a ten year old clackacraft. I help guide in western NC. Super fun...but I’d rather be poling a flat.


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## flyfisheraa573 (Jun 26, 2008)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Thanks! It is a ten year old clackacraft. I help guide in western NC. Super fun...but I’d rather be poling a flat.


Cool! Do you guide on the Tuck or the Nantahala? We spend a lot of time up around that area. WNC is a beautiful area!


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

flyfisheraa573 said:


> Cool! Do you guide on the Tuck or the Nantahala? We spend a lot of time up around that area. WNC is a beautiful area!


I've done the Tuck. Most of the drift boat guiding is the tailrace of the James. A little easier to navigate and get to. There are a lot wading options that I like too! Great area all around.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

VANMflyfishing said:


> Thanks! It is a ten year old clackacraft. I help guide in western NC. Super fun...but I’d rather be poling a flat.


The national sales office for Clacka is just down the road from my Idaho home. In fact, a good friend of mine was their national sales manager for quite awhile. Great boats and great company.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

That's awesome! It's been a fun boat. Not super heavy either which is great


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

The boat has been moved to VA and into the garage; so, things should speed up quite a bit over the next few weeks! This is the stern plan...split deck with a removable shelf to make it a flush deck. I am going to do a step down for at the floor so I can put a yeti cooler in between the two deck pieces. I like a clean cockpit to fish and being able to stuff a yeti out of the cockpit is key. The bow will be a flush hatch on the gunnel to eliminate vent tubs and drain tubs. Using the same take away hinges there to be able to take it off. Going with a portable gas tank up front for weight etc. Planning to drill holes in the forward rod tubes to vent the front hatch extremely well. Planning on one large anchor locker as well with a plug in case i want to make it an ice box or livewell in the future. PS, the $350 trailer killed it! Replacing the hardware and bunks made it look 10X better.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)




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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Almost ready for primer. I’m loving the look of it. Few places to fill voids with compound or glazing putty. I would never want to redo fairing on such a large, complex skiff. Of course the time spend is worth it long term, but dang that sucked.

My plan is a split deck with hatches, large hatch up front with a Moeller 15 tank. I am doing a few things I haven’t seen before. I plan to do two hatches inside the floor for shoes, anchor, life jackets, etc. the plan is to keep the floor under where the gas tank will sit to create storage. I am going to do the same thing between the two deck pieces and will flow into the bilge. My plan is to have a somewhat closed bilge system and drain through the back of the boat. I do plan on creating solid piece for the rear deck to make it one piece. The plan is to let it rest on where the hatch mold is and have the overhang of the lid slightly shorter then true. It will set right there. 3 forward and 3 rear tubes. Tohatsu 60 tiller on order in white. White paint all over.


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