# Let's talk permit



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Following. I got the bug a year ago and have been focused on getting one to the boat since.


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## Jared D (Mar 17, 2018)

Not able to help with your questions- but appreciate the story and your "accuracy" on that throw. 

I have always wondered if Permit are really "all that" or have become a thing of legend.
My buddy is a guide and is currently in the Keys. He just got a nice one on fly- and he says not so nice things about Permit. HA


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Read this and commit it to memory! Over 1,000 pages in two volumes. The book leans into the collective knowledge of 20 experienced and successful permit experts. They are finicky, for sure!

A Passion for Permit


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

Nice fish!! I have the book. I am going to have to steal it back from my dad though. What rod would you choose as a dedicated permit stick?


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

10 wt in wind, 9 in light conditions. Honestly, you just experienced permit fishing on fly. That's about all. Listen to the Millhouse podcast with Huff where he describes the cast that caught Del Brown's record fish. And his one word descriptor for a permit: dishonest.... Most of us amateurs really just have to get enough shots until we throw at the right fish. If you get all crazy and try to throw 13' leaders and stuff, you just decrease the number of flies on the dinner plate.


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

Any favorite lines?


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## Mike Geer (Nov 22, 2018)

SA Amplitude Grand Slam is my favorite. I prefer the slightly textured one. The longer you can cast accurately the better Especially with bigger fish. I have caught many smaller ones on 7 and 8 wts, but I prefer 9-10 in the Keys and/or on bigger fish. My favorite right now is a 9wt Asquith with the SA Amplitdue Grand Slam.

mike


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

@tailwalk what flies where you using???


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

I thought I had a grand slam in 9 but I could only find it in 8 so I lined that one up on the 8 wt and had a test session at the pond. I'll be getting a 9 wt gs next. Shaved a false cast with that line. Felt the rod load way faster.


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## Adrian Carreras vh (11 mo ago)

DBStoots said:


> Read this and commit it to memory! Over 1,000 pages in two volumes. The book leans into the collective knowledge of 20 experienced and successful permit experts. They are finicky, for sure!
> 
> A Passion for Permit
> 
> View attachment 199230


Many permit role though that bridge in the summer time at night.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

4 permit trips in a year and a half and no permit. 2 permit trips this year, first trip was unsuccessful next trip we will see. They are just not honest.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

and my girlfriend has caught 3


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

10 for bigger flies and wind. 9 for smaller flies. If I got slicked off conditions I'd go lighter but if it's slicked off you're better off going tarpon fishing, lol. Personally I think people give them to much respect when fishing for them. Throw the fly in there, either they will eat it or they won't. I love the Rio flats pro sink tip on the 10 and the Flats pro floating on the 9. I run 12' to 14' leaders, mono with a flouro tippet. I don't always like how fast an all flouro leader sinks.

I love it blowing 15 for permit.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

I got one and it was blowing like 15-20 that day. I had practiced with 12’ leaders for like a month daily and it helped a little. I feel like I got really lucky. It was my first permit trip with a guide in the keys. Also helped I had the new wife on the boat and she got several really nice bones that day as well.


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## Capt Dre (10 mo ago)

Always running into them when there’s no rods on the boat. Can’t wait to catch my first one.


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

After a little practicing in the pond I've come to realize how little I have been driving the rod and how ineffective my double haul has been. guide on the day we were casting at the ray asked if I knew how to double haul and told me I was only hauling once, not twice.. I've concentrated on feeling the rod load with my latest efforts and after a while I can feel what he was talking about... what are your favorite practice routines?


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

Where were you fishing?

Edit: I'm not very good at fishing so take all this with a grain of salt.

I think a dedicated permit stick should be able to do most things well. So a rod that is soft enough for an easy back cast, and just as importantly back cast with double haul. One that can flip a crab at 20' but also get through some wind to 60'.

I picked the setup of a known permit angler and went with that. After five years of cycling through all the rod line combos out there I just figured if I look at someone who is doing well in permit tournaments, take his set up and start practicing, I'll get where I want to be. 

Permit rods are 9 and 10 wt Zane Pros with TAC Balanced Taper Lines. They are a half heavy but have a long front taper. The goal is to use the same rod when it's windy and when it's calm. This is the second season using them and my main goal is not to change anything in my setup, just get more and more familiar with it.


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

That approach is what makes sense to me, coming up with the right combo to comfortably handle any conditions that I might find myself in. The more I'm practicing the better I am getting at accepting that my rod can do what I need it to. Part of me wants to believe if only I had a 10 weight I could do so much that I can't with the 9... it's looking more like I wasn't asking it to do the right thing. That's humbling. It's also inspiring. I now know I can hit targets at 70 feet in wind. It's a far more precise cast than I had given it credit for. It's still not automatic but that's what practice is for. 

Any casting geeks want to pass along tips on double hauling? I also need to improve the start of my quick cast. How do you make your first move?


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## brokeoff (Sep 2, 2016)

tailwalk said:


> That approach is what makes sense to me, coming up with the right combo to comfortably handle any conditions that I might find myself in. The more I'm practicing the better I am getting at accepting that my rod can do what I need it to. Part of me wants to believe if only I had a 10 weight I could do so much that I can't with the 9... it's looking more like I wasn't asking it to do the right thing. That's humbling. It's also inspiring. I now know I can hit targets at 70 feet in wind. It's a far more precise cast than I had given it credit for. It's still not automatic but that's what practice is for.
> 
> Any casting geeks want to pass along tips on double hauling? I also need to improve the start of my quick cast. How do you make your first move?


sexyloops.com has the best online instruction. 

Paul has tons of videos and a review of the intro one are probably good for anyone. Then I would focus on the distance fishing video and double haul video.

The videos cover all the technique you will need (although nothing can be substituted for in person certified instruction). First, I plan my practice around the technique (outlined in the videos). Second, I plan some practice around the shots I expect to see. So I cast at targets 360 degree, different winds, different distances, forward cast and back cast. I even practice the strip, so fly lands, strip out slack, let the fly drop, bump, stop, long strip/long strip, clear line. This isn't on most cast, but I try to walk through it a few times each session. Obviously, there can be a variety of cadences but I want to make sure the muscles are familiar with it. Hope to be on my first trip during tarpon season this year so I am practicing the tarpon stripping a lot. I don't want to get down there realize my weak link was fumbling over those short little strips.


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## scissorhands (Apr 8, 2012)

tailwalk said:


> That approach is what makes sense to me, coming up with the right combo to comfortably handle any conditions that I might find myself in. The more I'm practicing the better I am getting at accepting that my rod can do what I need it to. Part of me wants to believe if only I had a 10 weight I could do so much that I can't with the 9... it's looking more like I wasn't asking it to do the right thing. That's humbling. It's also inspiring. I now know I can hit targets at 70 feet in wind. It's a far more precise cast than I had given it credit for. It's still not automatic but that's what practice is for.
> 
> Any casting geeks want to pass along tips on double hauling? I also need to improve the start of my quick cast. How do you make your first move?


On the forward haul, pretend you are dusting off your front pant pocket. Just say "dust your pocket" every time.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Lefty's Longer Fly Casting has great drills for the double hall. 

Also watch for slack line in your haul. Many people haul and don't return.


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## hlane09 (Apr 1, 2019)

tailwalk said:


> So I'm still reeling from my first few encounters with permit a couple weeks ago. The first two were along a rocky shoreline in about 4 feet of water. A school of maybe 5 of them swam by and completely ignored my attempts to put a fly in front of them, just kept swimming. Number two came right after that when the guide calls it at 3 o clock about 40 feet away. I look and there's what looks to me to be a really big permit facing directly away from me, just laying up. I hit exactly where I was looking which was nice but the not nice part was that I was fixated on his left eye.. he didn't share the appreciation for my accuracy. The guide said it was probably a 30 pound fish. I'm really glad I didn't have a heart monitor on. I don't want to know...
> 
> Another day we found three following a ray. I cast at that ray for what felt like eternity. Some of them actually came close to the 70+ needed to reach him. I think they saw the fly. After a while they just slowly swam away.
> 
> ...



Where were you fishing?

I've used the scientific angler grand slam line for permit on my 9wt sage one for a few years and it a really good setup although I'm sure you'll get 100 different answers on that subject if you ask100 different people. I didn't do a ton of research on what rods and lines are best for permit, I really just got lucky with what I had. Two days before my first trip to Mexico my 9wt sage method snapped when I was putting it together to practice my double haul and was able to find a 9wt sage one to borrow--I liked it so much I ended up buying one. As for the lie I took a recommendation from people I trusted and had used it before. If I was going to buy a new rod for permit, I would look for a rod that has a lot of power that would help get the cast out as far as possible in the wind.

I've always used fluorocarbon leaders, the guides I've fished with have never let me use a monofilament leader. I've had pretty good success fishing #2 tan shrimp patterns with yellow dumbbell eyes (small, medium, or large depending on the depth of water) and #2 pato crab flies with a tan body and medium yellow dumbbell eyes.

Permit fishing is addicting, they are by far my favorite fish to target. They are incredibly difficult to catch which makes it so rewarding when you finally get one to eat a fly.


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## bluechipfish (Jul 8, 2020)

Permit surely are mysterious creatures. I've been fishing for them for 3 months or so, with two under my belt and countless attempts in between! The two I caught were actively feeding. I have no idea what to do when they are just cruising or floating up top, moving slow. If anyone has any tips for the "just hanging around not doing anything" situation, I'm all ears. My gut tells me the fish just floating on the surface are practically impossible, but then again, I thought catching a permit was only a few months ago. 

For anyone trying to target their first permit, something that would have helped me save countless trips of learning would be this: cast closer to them. Of course there's always exceptions to the rule but the fish I've found typically don't spook off a cast or a fly landing somewhat close to them. They seem far less spooky than a bonefish in the tailing/feeding in shallow water situation. 

Also, don't be afraid of wind. The fish sure aren't and they will be even less spooky with some wind about. 

On the last point- I absolutely blew a shot this weekend on a tailing fish because I was trying to use my 8wt in the wind. I just couldn't get the fly there, and if I had thrown a 10 it most likely would have been less of an issue. Don't be too proud to put the light tackle down and go with the right tool for the job. Again, besides maybe the calmest weather, they are not as spooky as bones and don't need the light tackle presentation that bones need. Of course, I have spooked them from a fly plop, but this is a much rarer occurrence than the same situation with bones. 

I think on the Mill House podcast either will benson or nat Linville said to cast right in front of their face. They're going to spook eventually, and you'd rather it be from seeing or hearing the fly than feeling the boat or feeling your presence after multiple casts. I've been kind of living by that. In the beginning, and I still have 0 clue mind you, I was being much too delicate by trying to lead erratic fish and just totally missing the opportunity. Get in there, and show the fish your fly. 

In 3 months I'll probably learn more and take back everything I said haha.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Put it in their face, let it fall. They'll either eat it or not, most likely the latter. 

Repeat. Keep repeating. One'll eat now and then. 

That's pretty much it. As for equipment, whatever you feel comfortable with that lets you do the above. Accuracy matters more than distance. They aren't geniuses, they're just picky. Like a 4-year old.

Good luck!


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

Went to cast a nrx+ and a 2 piece sector today, both 10 wt. I'm not exactly a great caster but These are great sticks. If I didn't have to travel with it I think the sector might take it by a hair, with alternate responsibilities as a tarpon stick. As it stands I believe the nrx+ 10 is in my future. Cast a sector 9 and didn't like it any better than the meridian so that's out. Next up should be Winston alpha+ and hardy Zane pro. I'll try the 9 but I'm leaning towards the 10. Meridian seems to be holding its own at 9 weight. Just not sure that's the weight for me for this mission. We'll see how practice develops.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Sector in 8 and 10 are my favorites right now. Wonderful rods to cast. But there are so many nowadays.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

When daisy chaining throw into the centrr with a weighted crab. They will scatter and then come right back. Don't move it. They already know it's there. That's why they scattered. And they came back for it and also because that is where they were. Has worked for me a number of times. Almost impossible to change rods while fishing and have a shot. If permit hunting then be set up for permit and let the bones or other go. Not always true. Picked up two fishing for tarpon. Just lucky. One was picking off stuff from a pylon the others were a school swimming a pattern. Those were the exception


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

Yeah I plan on targeting the permit specifically, to the exclusion of anything else during that period


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## Tailingpermit (Oct 11, 2020)

Best advise is to stop throwing at bonefish, there’s always a permit near by. 

Other than that I would say book a guide in November on the first full/new moon. Guides are quiet, water temps are consistent, wind is blowing, and the big fish return.

good luck!


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## tailwalk (Nov 20, 2016)

So I'm not sure what the conventional wisdom is these days in regards to overweighting rods (actually I have a pretty good idea) but I found myself with two lines purchased recently still in the box. I hatched an idea and set out to find that it would work! The store gave me a refund on one and swapped out the other. I wasn't sure they would do that cause it was past their policy stated timeframe. 

I like the sa infinity a lot. It is 1/2 a line weight heavy. It makes casting the weighted fly feel easier. So what would a true to weight 10 weight cortland tarpon taper feel like on the 9 weight meridian? It would feel like your first cast would go 80' pretty damm smoothly. This might keep me from buying a new rod.


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

Good Luck!


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