# Interesting trespassing lawsuit in SE Louisiana



## jmrodandgun

http://www.nola.com/outdoors/index....uide_sues_after_being.html#incart_river_index

TLDR; Guide and clients chased out of a body of water. The guide was later harassed at his home in neighboring Jefferson Parish by the Lafourche parish sheriff and his lackey. Maybe sheriffs crossing parish lines to harass suspects is normal, I don't know. Either way it's just makes it appear that the lease holder and sheriff are buddies. 

It's getting pretty stupid down here. Most would say they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.




> Although the fishing trip was ruined for both the guide and the clients, Carpenter had assumed that was the end of the incident, but on June 6, he was leaving his home on Grand Isle when his driveway was blocked by a Lafourche Parish Sheriff's office vehicle occupied by Prevost and Deputy Drake Duet, the lawsuit says.
> 
> Prevost told Carpenter that Plaisance was pursuing a complaint against him for trespassing on private property.
> 
> "(Prevost) further admonished (Carpenter), stating that this would be his 'first and final official warning,' that if he was found on Mr. Plaisance's property again, he would be arrested," the suit states.
> 
> Carpenter said he asked Prevost to indicate to him which waters specifically belonged to Plaisance, and Prevost told him he would be arrested if caught on any waters the State Lands Office map did not show as public.


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## DeepSouthFly

Had this same situation happen to me. I was fishing with a guide out of Jean Laffite just outside of NOLA. We were fishing and a guy came up on a john boat and politely asked us to leave cause we were on his duck lease and he said if it wasn't duck season he wouldn't care but since it was we needed to try to find somewhere else to go. It never got out of hand but the guide said that was a first.


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## E-money

It's a ridiculous, antiquated law that needs to be changed for sure. Louisiana is the only state that allows tidal waters to be privately owned. It seems to be more of an issue now than I ever remember. If it keeps heading in the current direction it will almost certainly harm or at least tarnish the economy around the fisheries down here. And that is a REAL shame because we have some of the best in the world and I personally feel that everyone should try to experience it at least once in their life.


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## jmrodandgun

You got lucky. They are not normally that friendly.


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## DeepSouthFly

Yeah this guy was cool about it. Our guide was kinda like wtf at first but was like whatever we'll leave. It is weird for sure. I don't see how it can be justified. It's like owning a section of a river or owning a marsh bank in FL. lol I don't really get it. But LA has got the fish for sure. I love going over there. I know how yall are about us oozers (out of state folks) though. haha but I'm the same when it comes to FL people leasing land in south AL where I'm at. Most of them are fine and know what they are doing but you have those crowds that shoot anything that walks and it really hurts the deer herd in some areas. Can't grow big deer when you shoot the yearlings.


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## jmrodandgun

View attachment 6036


E-money said:


> Louisiana is the only state that allows tidal waters to be privately owned


Admittedly, I'm not well versed in the legal definition of things but I was involved in a pretty epic parking lot brawl over the subject so some lawyers got involved. The way it was explained to me was when it was divided up, it wasn't water. Biloxi marsh is a good example, there use to be sugar cane, cattle, a construction yard and parts of a paved two lane road. That whole big chunk of marsh across from the MRGO is 100% private property. All of it. Even the entirety of lake Eugenie is private. We are lucky that we get to use the property thanks to a lease agreement with the state but it could just as easily have a big ass gate right there at the entrance on the MRGO.

It looks a little something like this. Anything not covered by the green or blue hash lines is private, and anything with the red hash lines is claimed by both the state and a private land holder.


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## E-money

jmrodandgun said:


> View attachment 6036
> 
> 
> Admittedly, I'm not well versed in the legal definition of things but I was involved in a pretty epic parking lot brawl over the subject so some lawyers got involved. The way it was explained to me was when it was divided up, it wasn't water. Biloxi marsh is a good example, there use to be sugar cane, cattle, a construction yard and parts of a paved two lane road. That whole big chunk of marsh across from the MRGO is 100% private property. All of it. Even the entirety of lake Eugenie is private. We are lucky that we get to use the property thanks to a lease agreement with the state but it could just as easily have a big ass gate right there at the entrance on the MRGO.
> 
> It looks a little something like this. Anything not covered by the green or blue hash lines is private, and anything with the red hash lines is claimed by both the state and a private land holder.


Yes, that is how I understand it as well. However, just because you owned land that was once there does not give you claim to the waters that flow in and out of it. Well, I guess technically in Louisiana it absolutely does give you claim......currently. Coastal erosion is not unique to Louisiana (although it may be significantly worse here) and yet we are the only state to not allow free access to waters subjected to the tides.

I say this while actively participating in duck leases myself. We do not gate the lease, but we do lease the hunting rights from an oil company. If someone was duck hunting on our lease we would ask them to leave. If they were fishing, I personally would hope that they would be respectful and maintain a distance from our blinds but I would not ask them to leave. In my eyes I have no right to even though I do in the state's eyes.


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## jmrodandgun

I try not to let it bother me too much and when I get caught I pretend to be really stupid. Unfortunately I've recently lost legal access to some pretty big pieces of property thanks to this fiasco and to no fault of my own. Jokes on them. I will just continue to use the area, permission or not.


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## CoolRunnings

jmrodandgun said:


> .
> 
> It's getting pretty stupid down here. Most would say they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.


Someone will get shot because of this if it continues on the way it has been. It will happen during duck season w/in 5 yrs.


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## E-money

Austin_Boudreaux said:


> Someone will get shot because of this if it continues on the way it has been. It will happen during duck season w/in 5 yrs.


No kidding. A buddy of mine had his wife on the skiff earlier this year for teal season and a duck hunter fired a "warning shot" out in front of the bow of the skiff. Worst part is, it was late in the morning and they trolled up on the hunters. When he saw them he turned around and started to head out when they shot.


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## jmrodandgun

Austin_Boudreaux said:


> Someone will get shot because of this if it continues on the way it has been. It will happen during duck season w/in 5 yrs.


There is a pretty infamous case down in Venice where a guy fired a shot across the bow of a BASS tournament participant. The guy even had a camera crew with him and the DA still declined to prosecute.

I'm not too terribly worried about getting shot at, I'm more concerned with another boat ramp confrontation. Not that I mind showing a few locals what a liver kick feels like, I just don't want my irreplaceable skiff and vehicle being damaged.

I've actually had quite a bit of good luck when it comes to trespassing. I have permission to fish in a lot of places so I try not to shit where I eat. I'm hesitant to jump into the fray and lose more of my granted access.


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## LowHydrogen

What is wrong with the people.
There is no such thing as a "warning" shot. Shooting at a duck, deer, etc and someone encroaches is one thing, being peppered at the far end of a dove field almost expected. 
Shooting in the direction of other people in a threatening manner, No way 100% unacceptable. That opens a door, a door you'd wish you could shut once the right person decides to step through.


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## Smackdaddy53

LowHydrogen said:


> What is wrong with the people.
> There is no such thing as a "warning" shot. Shooting at a duck, deer, etc and someone encroaches is one thing, being peppered at the far end of a dove field almost expected.
> Shooting in the direction of other people in a threatening manner, No way 100% unacceptable. That opens a door, a door you'd wish you could shut once the right person decides to step through.


That's why I don't carry during duck season here in Texas...I'll end up shooting someone's powerhead with my .40 for being dumbasses. I have been peppered before and they say it is because "us fishermen" get too close to their spreads. Hard to avoid when there is a blind every hundred yards on damn near every shoreline. I hope TPWD starts regulating the number of blinds before someone gets hurt.


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## jmrodandgun

I wish I understood what the end game was in all of this. If the coast gets's locked down it's could cripple entire towns. Even if we ignore all the tax revenue and license fees that will be lost, do they really believe there are enough people living in Leeville to support a restaurant, bar, and a few hotels?


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## jmrodandgun

How different would the economy be in Southern Florida if 1.2 million of the 1.5 million acres of Everglades National Park were entirely private property?


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## E-money

And what makes it worse is there is no law that private land must be posted. So it is up to the angler to research areas and stay up to date on private lands mapping. Not to mention that the marsh looks different year to year. Most anglers aren't going to put in that kind of time. They will just fish what they want and end up being ticketed or prosecuted for trespassing.


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## Zhunter

Wow, does not exactly make me want to go fish up there, although the fishing looks amazing.

Like someone posted, this will eventually have a adverse affect on local economies


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## LowHydrogen

I've worked all over South LA, Mostly the BR to NO (cancer alley). Louisiana has a long and rich history of local and state government figuring out what will best benefit the public, and environment. 

Then doing the opposite.


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## sjrobin

Louisiana citizens have to get involved to change the coastal zone law. If the CCA from every state pushed the La legislature a little the law change could happen. I just spent five days in Timbalier and Barataria Bays and marshes and you guys have some beautiful water and habitat. I did see posted signs in every marsh. We the people own the tidal water of the USA. But let's face it, most Americans have never seen nature the way we see it from our skiffs.


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## MariettaMike

jmrodandgun said:


> How different would the economy be in Southern Florida if 1.2 million of the 1.5 million acres of Everglades National Park were entirely private property?


You obviously haven't heard of "Big Sugar".


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## MariettaMike

sjrobin said:


> Louisiana citizens have to get involved to change the coastal zone law. If the CCA from every state pushed the La legislature a little the law change could happen. I just spent five days in Timbalier and Barataria Bays and marshes and you guys have some beautiful water and habitat. I did see posted signs in every marsh. We the people own the tidal water of the USA. But let's face it, most Americans have never seen nature the way we see it from our skiffs.


You think the most corrupt state in the country will stop collecting property taxes on land under "tidal water", AND do something for a minority of citizens that have grown accustomed to trespassing. That's some funny stuff there.


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## Steve_Mevers

My family owns a small piece of land about 50 miles south of New Orleans, used to be a small plantation when my relatives ran tug boats on the river. The rear of the property is on a canal that winds out to the Bilouxi Marsh. I was researching it some thinking it might be a nice place for a fish camp and was told that most likely the canal is privately owned and that they could gate it off to prevent me from using it, WTF.


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## Zhunter

Isn't Louisiana state motto "Sportsmans Paradise"?????

Pretty sad what is going on up there. We are spoiled in Florida for sure, now if we can just get the sugar industry under control....


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## jmrodandgun

Steve_Mevers said:


> I was researching it some thinking it might be a nice place for a fish camp and was told that most likely the canal is privately owned and that they could gate it off to prevent me from using it, WTF.


As the adjoining property owner you likely wouldn't have too much of a problem using the canal. If I were you I wouldn't let that stop me. I would be less worried about the canal and more worried about the state losing it's lease on the Biloxi property. The owners have already strong armed WLF into restricting air cooled motor use.

It's a weird deal but it's been this way for so long it will be hard to change. The one thing Louisianian has going for it is the non land owning recreational crowd out number the land owners so bad that when they start shouting about access they will be hard to ignore. I feel especially bad for the out of town guests who have no way to know better or to prepare for these kinds of issues. When I go out I know that the second my trailer tires touch the water I am going to be trespassing at some point and I'm prepared to handle the fallout.

Just to give an idea, in one parish alone the parish either built or maintained two separate launches that launched directly into private water. There is some strange things going on with a third launch but I'm unsure about the details. 

Clovelly- http://www.houmatoday.com/news/20130124/parish-considers-public-boat-launch-in-larose

The parish maintained the road land launch in exchange for the ramp to be open to the public. The land owners wanted a new pump to drain something and wanted the parish to foot the bill, after that went south the owners wanted $20k/year from the parish to keep the ramp open. Again, no joy. The owners kicked and screamed like children and closed the ramp forever. Now it's $400/year for pass.

Golden Meadow public launch.

Built and paid for by the parish. Nice place but there is a catch. The water it launches into is privately owned. It's only operational at the pleasure of the property owner.


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## DeepSouthFly

Yeah pretty nuts. I mean I understand not wanting people on "your water" during duck season but when that's out what's the deal? It's not like those fish will stay there and no one is hurting anything running through there on a boat.


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## jmrodandgun

I've never really understood the hierarchy between fisherman and duck hunters. It pops up every time the issue arises and people are quick to compromise to keep the duck hunters happy. It's weird and kind of stupid.


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## WhiteDog70810

Money talks. The hierarchy is because duck hunters pay money to lease marshland. On a side note, leased duck marsh is usually gated and weired and the boundaries are well marked with "posted" signs by the club that leases the land. All the best duck marsh has been locked down under lease longer than I've been alive. The revenue from leasing marshland isn't much when compared to the mineral rights underneath it, so the owners lease to their family, buddies and business associates, not the public at large. As a result, it takes "old money" to get into a really good duck lease in Louisiana. Your daddy needs to have a connection even if you have the dough. There is some decent public land, but it isn't like the private land because it receives so much pressure.

Fishermen haven't traditionally paid to lease marshland. If a fisherman pays to lease land, he'd have the same seat at the table. I don't want to see this happen because I don't want fishing to become an "old money" game, but that is the reality. 

Nate


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## MariettaMike

jmrodandgun said:


> I've never really understood the hierarchy between fisherman and duck hunters. It pops up every time the issue arises and people are quick to compromise to keep the duck hunters happy. It's weird and kind of stupid.


Yea, getting shot is kind of stupid.

But since duck hunting is seasonal most sportsman, including me, concede the water to those weirdos. I don't fish in good duck hunting weather, and the duck hunters I know don't fish during good fishing weather.

But Hang Em' High Charters over here in Crystal River, FL has their clients fish from their duck blinds, and go home with limits of ducks, redfish, and trout.


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## E-money

And I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from coming down here and hooking up with a guide so that they can experience our fisheries. It's a great place with great people and fantastic guides. In most cases the guides are joining in on the fight since it directly effects their well being.

Not to jinx myself, but I have never been threatened or run off of any waters in my entire life. I don't want to make it seem like it happens more than it doesn't at this point.

But with the formation of the Louisiana Sportsmen Coalition and the attention that they are starting to grab at the political stage, hopefully we can expect to see progress in the not so distant future.


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## jmrodandgun

MariettaMike said:


> But since duck hunting is seasonal most sportsman, including me, concede the water to those weirdos.


You should come enter into one of our WMA's the day after the last day of duck season and make note of the destruction and all the garbage left behind. I have never once seen a duck hunting club or organization out there cleaning it up nor have I ever heard of one going to any of the clean up days. Every crap trap clean up and marsh grass planting effort is dominated by recreational fisherman only. As far as I am concerned duck hunting comes second, not first. 

Besides, there is no way all those duck dynasty fans with bro-drives and face paint spend more money in coastal Louisiana than the recreational fishermen who fish it all year.


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## jmrodandgun

E-money said:


> Not to jinx myself, but I have never been threatened or run off of any waters in my entire life


You should preface that statement with noting where you spend most of your time. Most of the guys I know who fish big heavy redfish all year have never been chased out either, but they are spending all their time on the outside edges of a Wildlife Management Area. If you're spending mostof your time in Delacroix you're automatically on private property the second you leave the bayou. Delacoix exits solely on the good graces of the ownership, without their generosity hwy 300 is a ghost town.

If I ever get my boat built I'll hit you up and take you west of the bayou Lafourche and show you some hidden cameras, booby trap cables struck inches below the water, gates, crazy crabbers who aren't afraid to give a shiny redfish skiff a friendly nudge with their crab boat. You almost have to see it to believe it.

Moral of the story is there are no fish left in Louisiana, they swam over to Texas


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## sjrobin

The other major legal and political factors regarding private La marshes are:
1) Rapid erosion of existing land creating increasing private tidal water ownership and therefore increasing private ownership of marine estuaries. The coastal tidal zones are in a constant state of change, some rapid, some slower.
2) Loss of recreational revenue. The posted signs certainly don't shout "Welcome to Louisiana!"
In five and a half days on the water(200 miles) and launching from three different ramps, I saw three other skiffs, two at one of the ramps, and one on the water near the outside river cane. All from Texas. I like that, but the local merchants don't.
3) Regulation of private marsh camps waste water treatment?


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## WhiteDog70810

jmrodandgun said:


> You should come enter into one of our WMA's the day after the last day of duck season and make note of the destruction and all the garbage left behind.


First, I will commiserate. Sadly, many public land duck hunters in Louisiana make duck hunters as a whole look very bad. I hunted Pointe Aux Chene WMA from '96-'02 and it was sad to see how a majority of those fools behaved. Duck hunters didn't litter any more than the fishermen (I picked up behind both on many occasions), but I will definitely concede that the same dirt bags are in both groups. 

Secondly, I will point out that the hunters on WMAs are not the hunters in leases, so we are now just bitching for the sake of bitching because they have nothing to do with the argument at hand.

The problem is that no one is looking at the big picture. Much of the marsh in question was once some old guy's pastureland (some was actually sugarcane land or timber) until the salt got to it. His grandkids own it now and they are trying to get anything they can get out of it before it erodes away completely. They'll take care of their friends and family, but screwing non-locals is perfectly fine (BR and NO guys are NOT locals). No one is slowing down to consider that denying the non-local fishermen access to 95% of the water will hurt the economy as a whole. 

Nate


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## WillW

[QUOTE="jmrodandgun, post: 

Moral of the story is there are no fish left in Louisiana, they swam over to Texas [/QUOTE]

They're none here either. I hear they're all in FL.


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## Tx_Whipray

Question: Are these land owners still paying property taxes on deeded acreage, or on actual "land"?


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## jmrodandgun

WhiteDog70810 said:


> Secondly, I will point out that the hunters on WMAs are not the hunters in leases, so we are now just bitching for the sake of bitching because they have nothing to do with the argument at hand.


Never let logic get in the way of a good strawman rant 



Tx_Whipray said:


> Question: Are these land owners still paying property taxes on deeded acreage, or on actual "land"?


Yes. It's part of the property owners argument for closing it off. What's weird is if you own property on a river and a flood changes the course of the river, you don't get to gate off whatever part of your land is now covered by the river, you simply lose that land. Or if you're really lucky, like one of my neighbors, you gain a bunch of free property.


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## DeepSouthFly

I would imagine they are paying but who knows. This is all blowing my mind haha


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## Tx_Whipray

I know the state would be loath to give up any kind of tax revenue these days, but it seems like a common sense approach would be to cut property taxes to land only, and declare tidal waters public property. The devil would be in the details, I know. You'd have to have provisions for mineral leases, etc. Hell, it would probably be easier to broker peace in the middle east.


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## Zhunter

WillW said:


> [QUOTE="jmrodandgun, post:
> 
> Moral of the story is there are no fish left in Louisiana, they swam over to Texas


They're none here either. I hear they're all in FL.[/QUOTE]

Nope, not down here, we got the Algae bloom all over, I think they went to SC


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## Whiskey Angler

Zhunter said:


> They're none here either. I hear they're all in FL.


Nope, not down here, we got the Algae bloom all over, I think they went to SC[/QUOTE]
I heard size 3/0 bonefish imitation streamers are killing the bid reds down in the Bahamas right now!


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## Steve_Mevers

I was wanting to drag my flats boat up to LA for some DIY fishing, but maybe I will spend my money in Mississippi


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## Dawhoo

Nah all the fish went up Mississippi up into the Midwestern states, hence everyone that normally comes down south should just stay up there as you have all the fish.


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## jmrodandgun

Steve_Mevers said:


> I was wanting to drag my flats boat up to LA for some DIY fishing, but maybe I will spend my money in Mississippi


There area few enormous areas of public marsh, unfortunately they are devoid of any life because all the fish moved to Texas.

All kidding aside, I would hate for someone to pass up on a La trip because of this issue. Especially when there is so much for someone to experience without any trouble. 

BUT you should defiantly _say_ you aren't coming, that way it strengthens our case for access.


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## Backcountry 16

jmrodandgun said:


> There is a pretty infamous case down in Venice where a guy fired a shot across the bow of a BASS tournament participant. The guy even had a camera crew with him and the DA still declined to prosecute.
> 
> I'm not too terribly worried about getting shot at, I'm more concerned with another boat ramp confrontation. Not that I mind showing a few locals what a liver kick feels like, I just don't want my irreplaceable skiff and vehicle being damaged.
> 
> I've actually had quite a bit of good luck when it comes to trespassing. I have permission to fish in a lot of places so I try not to shit where I eat. I'm hesitant to jump into the fray and lose more of my granted access.


Yeah tell that guy to come to Florida and try that here we shot back glad I live in Florida any navigable water is public.


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## Backcountry 16

Zhunter said:


> Isn't Louisiana state motto "Sportsmans Paradise"?????
> 
> Pretty sad what is going on up there. We are spoiled in Florida for sure, now if we can just get the sugar industry under control....


That will never happen I have been here 49 years and have seen a major decline in the caloosahatche river and pine island sound. Big sugar has way too much money


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## sjrobin

Big sugar cannot survive in the USA with out your tax dollars(federal subsidy). Vote the issue and get your neighbors to vote. Of course the subsidies support La sugar and jobs.


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## Steve_Mevers

Backcountry 16 said:


> That will never happen I have been here 49 years and have seen a major decline in the caloosahatche river and pine island sound. Big sugar has way too much money


I live right off the Caloosahatche river, been in Florida 53 years, I think the issue has finally hit the point that politicians are going to start voting against the Big Sugar Daddy's Money.


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## Steve_Mevers

Backcountry 16 said:


> Yeah tell that guy to come to Florida and try that here we shot back glad I live in Florida any navigable water is public.


Yep, the Lykes Brothers in Florida tried that crap putting a fence across Fish Eating Creek about 20 years ago claiming the waters were not truly navable, the state proved that the indians used to travel the creek with canoes to trade goods and the fence came down. I have never bought a single Lykes meat product since. I just don't get it, these people have more money than they can ever spend, they own thousands of acres of land, they own an island in Pine Island Sound, and they are not thank-ful for their fortunes, no they have to try to keep the common citizens from enjoying God's nature, they want it all for themselves. Same thing is happening out west, miles and miles of rivers that you cannot access or even drop an anchor on the bottom. That is a subject for another thread.


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## LowHydrogen

Most of the time in FL if your land is washed away in a storm or flood, you get off the check book and pay to have it replaced, and if not you call the tax collectors office for a reassessment. Then again most of the deeds here read in effect to mean lower low water. 

I understand Louisiana is different both politically and environmentally.... But the current path is a lose/lose situation. 

The fish are not in North FL they're all down south, pretty much anywhere South of Hudson should be killer. North FL ramps are overcrowded and the crime is outrageous. Shame really, but it's our albatross.


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## Backcountry 16

LowHydrogen said:


> Most of the time in FL if your land is washed away in a storm or flood, you get off the check book and pay to have it replaced, and if not you call the tax collectors office for a reassessment. Then again most of the deeds here read in effect to mean lower low water.
> 
> I understand Louisiana is different both politically and environmentally.... But the current path is a lose/lose situation.
> 
> The fish are not in North FL they're all down south, pretty much anywhere South of Hudson should be killer. North FL ramps are overcrowded and the crime is outrageous. Shame really, but it's our albatross.


No fish in SW FL they're all above Tampa area.


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