# Trouble Shifting into Reverse on 1998 25hp Mercury Tiller



## TomFL

> My Merc has the shift built into the handle.  It shifts into and out of forward gear just fine but I've been having trouble shifting into reverse.  If I can get it in reverse, it's fairly smooth and sometimes very smooth and it comes out of gear just fine.  Otherwise, I can't get into reverse at all.  My fiance's father who is a Merc mechanic said it's probably a linkage issue.  Any theories?
> 
> If it is a linkage issue, how do I fix this?  Please be detailed as I'm new at this.


Here's how I would tackle this problem.

Step one: Load motor into truck
Step two: Drive to liquer store to pick up (cold) beer. 
Step three: Proceed to fiance's father's house. 

See how easy that was?  

-T


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## rkmurphy

> Here's how I would tackle this problem.
> 
> Step one: Load motor into truck
> Step two: Drive to liquer store to pick up (cold) beer.
> Step three: Proceed to fiance's father's house.
> 
> See how easy that was?
> 
> -T


Haha I'm trying to avoid being out of a boat for another week.  Plus...can't try to get the big man to cover everything.

His friend made it sound like it was something I could do on my own fairly easily...didn't go through any procedures, though.


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## Brett

Take the cowling off
move the shift mechanism slowly
watch what moves and where it moves
look for the point where a mechanical clamping device has slipped
it may be a set screw or bolt
you'll be able to see the original location of the clamp
by the scratches on the connecting part
simple mechanical retrace-ing of shift activation
plus you'll understand what is happening in the future


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## Un-shore

Just making sure here, are you talking about when the motor is running it has trouble shifting?


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## rkmurphy

> Take the cowling off
> move the shift mechanism slowly
> watch what moves and where it moves
> look for the point where a mechanical clamping device has slipped
> it may be a set screw or bolt
> you'll be able to see the original location of the clamp
> by the scratches on the connecting part
> simple mechanical retrace-ing of shift activation
> plus you'll understand what is happening in the future


Thank you. I will see what I can do when I get it back...hopefully soon!



> Just making sure here, are you talking about when the motor is running it has trouble shifting?


While it is running AND when it is off.


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## rkmurphy

Ok a little update. Got the boat back this weekend and took a look at the linkage. Everything looks fine and even with no slack in the lines.

I discovered, however, that if the motor won't shift into reverse (this is, of course, while the motor is off) if I spin the prop a bit, I can then shift it. If it is shifting fine into reverse, I can fine a certain point while spinning the prop where it won't shift into reverse.

Any new theories on the issue? Now I'm completely stumped...


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## mark_gardner

if you dont mind me asking.... when and where did you get this motor?


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## marshman

i may be late on this lil thread...

but fwiw...

ive always been told to never shift a motor into reverse while not running....not exactly sure what the reason is, but might be some advice worth researching...

brett?? googlemiester?? can you confirm this or shoot this down??


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## Brett

I've heard the same about not shifting into reverse.
Shifting into forward is ok. Anytime I wanted to shift into gear
when the engine is not running it was always into forward.
Basic rule of mechanics: If it don't go easy...it don't go.

middle of page regarding trailering

http://www.mercuryracing.com/techcorners/outboardfaqs.php

Never shift into reverse if engine is not running in section on Gear Shifting:

www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/4/enen/outboard/2008/accessories/899988.pdf


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## rkmurphy

Wow...thanks guys. I had no idea. Is it bad if I've been doing it a lot lately? Could I have messed something up?

I'm a little worried now because I really have been messing with it a lot...


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## Brett

Probably not, unless you have been forcing it.
If it don't go easy, it don't go.

If you can still shift gears you're probably ok.
The last 200 feet to the dock ought to be at dead slow.
I usually paddle the last 20 feet, it's easier than shifting
in and out of gear, and avoids impact at warp speeds.


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## rkmurphy

> Probably not, unless you have been forcing it.
> If it don't go easy, it don't go.
> 
> If you can still shift gears you're probably ok.
> The last 200 feet to the dock ought to be at dead slow.
> I usually paddle the last 20 feet, it's easier than shifting
> in and out of gear, and avoids impact at warp speeds.


...read my most recent bragging spot post...

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1232856541/135#135


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## Brett

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=shift+rod+adjustment+outboard


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## HaMm3r

I responded to your bragging thread post, but then read this. I don't know how well I can explain this, but if we were standing next to the motor I could show you in 20 seconds.

Take a look at this picture...








That's my merc lower unit, and the smaller silver rod on the right is the shift linkage rod. Yours should be similar. It runs from the lower unit up to under the cowling where it's connected to the shift mechanism with a pin. When the rod moves up, it shifts the lower unit into gear (_I can't remember whether up is forward or reverse, but it doesn't matter for this discussion_) and when it moves down, it first goes into neutral first and then into gear in the opposite direction. When you reinstall the lower unit, there are some pretty specific measurements for the length of that shift rod, and you're supposed to adjust it before you reassemble the motor.

About halfway up the shift rod, there is an adjustable clamp that engages/disengages the trim lock lever when the shift rod moves up and down. When set correctly, this prevents the motor from flipping up while in reverse. You may have to loosen or remove this clamp to make any adjustments, so just be aware it's there.

Now, I'm not saying this is your problem, but it could be. So, try to picture how the tiller handle rotates and adjusts the throttle accordingly. Well, the shift rod has to be adjusted so it matches the tiller's throttle adjustment. For example, shift rod in neutral position has to match throttle in idle position. If not, stuff like you're seeing will happen. Plus, if it's far enough out of adjustment, it may never move the shift rod far enough to engage reverse.

If you remove the pin under the cowling and loosen the trim lock clamp, you may be able to twist the shift rod and adjust it. If you can't do it like that, then the lower unit may have to come off. At the very least, you should be able to remove the pin and push/pull the shift rod up and down manually, to make sure it shifts like it's supposed to.


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## mark_gardner

yo murphy, the reason i asked where and when you got this motor was because a while back i sold a similar motor to a guy and shortly afterwards i found a peice of linkage that i suspect fell off the motor while changing the plugs. i couldnt find his number to call him and tell him of my findings . just wondering if perhaps this could be the same motor???


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## rkmurphy

> yo murphy, the reason i asked where and when you got this motor was because a while back i sold a similar motor to a guy and shortly afterwards i found a peice of linkage that i suspect fell off the motor while changing the plugs. i couldnt find his number to call him and tell him of my findings . just wondering if perhaps this could be the same motor???


I bought it from Bud Banks Marine in Lutz and the previous owner was there. He was a middle age heavy set guy with gray hair. He had a jon boat and a little blue skiff I remember.

I'm gonna research this shift rod thing. Hopefully I can get this issue taken care of without any cost. The motor runs flawlessly (knock on wood) except for this issue. Keep the help coming guys...I need all the help I can get! I really appreciate everything so far.

Update: I've dedicated 12:15-5:00pm tomorrow motor surgery time. I shot the guys at smalloutboards.com an email (they probably hate me because I always email them with questions and can never buy anything...maybe if I bought a motor from them in the first place I wouldn't have this problem!) and am awaiting some sort of reply. Hopefully they can help...they ALWAYS do. Great group of people over there. Motors are expensive but, even with no experience with them, I can guarantee they are worth every penny. They are definitely the experts in the area regarding small outboards. If I ever have to take my motor for repair, it will go there.

Anyways...wish me luck and like I said, keep the help coming because I'll definitely need it.


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## rkmurphy

Found a possible issue, although I don't know much about this.  If you look in the picture at the linkage I pointed out in blue, it is quite loose.  I can easily wiggle it around.  I'm not sure if this is a possible issue and needs to be tight or not but, it's just something I noticed.  Should I tighten it down?  Or is it fine a little loose?

Could this even possibly be the cause?


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## Brett

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury_parts/368/40.cfm

That's the shift link, the elbow identifies it.
The throttle link is the straight one next to it.
Should be tight enough to transfer load,
loose enough to not bind.


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## rkmurphy

> http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury_parts/368/40.cfm
> 
> That's the shift link, the elbow identifies it.
> The throttle link is the straight one next to it.
> Should be tight enough to transfer load,
> loose enough to not bind.


I guess it's fine then...hmmm...

Well tracing the shift linkage I found where the connection is to the shift rod (#2).  I dunno if this is weird or not but, when I lifted up the lever that I labeled #1, reconnected it, and shot some WD-40 on it, it almost seemed to allow the me to shift into forward smoother.  Anyways...I'll mess with it more tomorrow.  Tired...

I'm going to try to do more research as well.


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## HaMm3r

Yeah, that "lever" that you marked #1 is the pin. It flips up and pulls out, releasing the shift rod. When you flip it back down, it locks into a groove on that shaft. Make sure it does. You may have to push the shaft from the other side of the engine block to get it to snap in.


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## rkmurphy

Yeah it clicked back in fine.  I ended up figuring out it was the pin because...well...I pulled it out 

But look what I found.  Crowley has an error right now so I can't check the parts diagram of the shift rod to check on where I need to look for that washer.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=118740&highlight=shifting+reverse

Edit: Sh*t...I just read more and realized that his F-N-R marks on the tiller handle weren't lining up correctly.  Mine are.   ...this is frusterating

Edit #2:  You know what else just came to mind...is it normal for the motor to make a clicking noise when shutting off and for a second or 2 after it shuts off?

Edit #3: Nevermind to edit #2...I just realized it only did that when I shut the motor off while in gear. Just the prop apparently...


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## rkmurphy

The guys at AFA Marine (smalloutboards.com) said it sounds like the motor may be idling at too high an RPM and should be adjusted. I backed the screw out a half turn for now...as it did sound as if it was idling a little high. I can't get back on the water until this weekend so we'll see what happens.


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## REELKEEN

I'm going to jump on this trouble shifting into reverse bandwagon. My1997 25 horse isn't shifting into reverse. Only difference is mine has a remote steer and throttle. I'm about to go mess with it this afternoon.


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## rkmurphy

> I'm going to jump on this trouble shifting into reverse bandwagon.  My1997 25 horse isn't shifting into reverse.  Only difference is mine has  a remote steer and throttle.  I'm about to go mess  with it this afternoon.


Same motor...rules out my possible tiller theory. I decreased my idle so we'll see when I get it on the water. Possibly tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday. I'll let you know.

I'm just hoping it's not a clutch dog issue...


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## TomFL

> My Merc has the shift built into the handle.  It shifts into and out of forward gear just fine but I've been having trouble shifting into reverse.  If I can get it in reverse, it's fairly smooth and sometimes very smooth and it comes out of gear just fine.  Otherwise, I can't get into reverse at all.  My fiance's father who is a Merc mechanic said it's probably a linkage issue.  Any theories?
> 
> If it is a linkage issue, how do I fix this?  Please be detailed as I'm new at this.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's how I would tackle this problem.
> 
> Step one: Load motor into truck
> Step two: Drive to liquer store to pick up (cold) beer.
> Step three: Proceed to fiance's father's house.
> 
> See how easy that was?
> 
> -T
Click to expand...

2 weeks later my beer idea is looking better and better, no?


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## rkmurphy

> 2 weeks later my beer idea is looking better and better, no?


I'll tell you what sounds better than that...me winning that Bass Pro Shops sweepstakes I entered back in Dec that sends you on a $25,000 shopping spree. Then I'll just buy an '09 Merc 30hp 4stroke ;D

If only if only....


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## REELKEEN

Alright I've been tinkering and I've found that my problem doesn't lie in my throttle cables.  Here is what I have discovered.

There is something stopping the piece that the shifting rod is connecting to.








This picture is taken with the shifter pushed into the foward position. notice the gap between the piece that the shifter rod connects to  and the piece above it. The piece above the shifter is connected to a long thin rod which goes up to another plastic piece that is near the fly wheel.










This picture shows the shifter hitting the plastic piece above.  This is what is preventing it from going into reverse.  Any suggestions anyone?










A side view picture.


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## rkmurphy

The motor won't normally go into reverse if the motor is not running.  I think it's supposed to hit that thing...let me go check...

Edit: Yes, it's suppose to hit it.


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## REELKEEN

Any ideas as to what that piece does.  

The motor should be able to go into reverse as long as you are spinning the prop. Anyone disagree with this?


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## Brett

As long as the flywheel is turning you can shift into reverse,
the rotation allows the gears to synchonize and mesh.
The object the shift linkage is hitting is the start in neutral safety switch.
My thought is that his lower shift rod connection, at the top
of the gear case has slipped...happens a lot.


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## REELKEEN

> As long as the flywheel is turning you can shift into reverse,
> the rotation allows the gears to synchonize and mesh.
> The object the shift linkage is hitting is the start in neutral safety switch.
> My thought is that his lower shift rod connection, at the top
> of the gear case has slipped...happens a lot.


Brett,
If that is the case would the foward still work and the reverse not work? Or if that was the issue would neither of them work.


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## Brett

> his lower shift rod connection, at the top of the gear case has slipped


This affects only reverse most of the time,
neutral and forward remain within the control limits of the shifter.


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## REELKEEN

Now that I've identified it what are my steps to resolve. Is this something that I should trust to a mechanic or is it as simple as dropping the lower unit and realigning the shift rod.


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## Brett

On the mercs it may be out in the open,
or behind a rubber plug in the exhaust housing.
No lower unit removal needed.
During installation of a lower unit,
it would be hard to align the driveshaft
and adjust the shift at the same time.
So the driveshaft splines are aligned and seated first,
the lower unit bolts are snugged up.
then the upper shift rod linkage is attached.
Finally the lower adjustment gets done.

The correct complete procedure is described in the OEM shop manual.
Get one, follow the instructions and torque specifications.
It's the only way to do it right. The manuals are not that expensive.


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## rkmurphy

Idle speed RPM's were too high. Took it out to the lake and all was good. Shift problem solved...for now.


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## KEVIN T. MANLEY

WHEN YOU PULL THE LOWER UNIT OFF, THERE IS A WASHER THAT WILL SLIDE OFF THE SHIFTER ROD. WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE ROD SLIDE DOWN THRU FROM THE OUT SIDE OF THE UPPER UNIT ABOVE THE LOWER UNIT THAT IS WHERE YOU WILL HAVE TO RE-INSERT IT. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THAT IT WILL SIT ON TOP OF THE SHIFT ROD .WHEN A WATER IMPELLER IS CHANGED OR LOWER UNIT IS REMOVED THE WASHER WILL FALL OUT. THIS IS VERY COMMON TO HAPPEN. IF THE WASHER IS NOT ON THE ROD IT WILL NOT SHIFT TO REVERSE OR TILT WHEN IN FORWARD GEAR. HOPE THAT HELPS. BIG BUCK


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## Kniemann13

Not sure if anyone still reads or reply’s to these, but I have a question. 
25 hp 2 stroke Merc will go into reverse, but it does not have the power it should. One day it was fine, bumped a log while going forward, and next time I tried to reverse I could barely back up. Engine would throttle up, but I wouldn’t back up any faster. Went back to normal randomly one day, but has since went back to having no power. Looked at it on earmuffs in the yard and it looks like the prop is spinning just fine and even spins fast when the motor is throttled up. Not sure what is going on.


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