# Leaders



## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

does any one tie their own fly line leaders anymore ? If so which leader material do you think holds up the best?


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Lots of YouTube info on tying your own leaders for saltwater, but if you are a keep it simple type, Hard Mason butt section (4' to 5' of 16lb test) then bite tippet (12lb to 16lb fluorocarbon) for short leader close casting on most 5wt to 7wt rods.


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## Karlee (Dec 7, 2017)

lemaymiami said:


> On the tip end of a fly line - all of mine are set up with straight nail knot connection -that's for floating fly lines -for intermediate lines (slow sinkers) I use two nail knots in a row - and each nail knot is an integral part of the leader butt section.
> 
> Back when I used to teach this stuff - here's the basics on leader butt sections, length, line size, etc.
> 
> ...



I did the above and it has worked really well for me. I ended with a 3 foot sections of 20 lb flouro blood knotted to 12 lb flouro. The 20 lb gets a loop to connect to the 30 lb Ande butt section. This holds up nicely and, as stated above, make it easy to real butt section of the leader into the guides when landing fish.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Search this Fly Fishing Forum under "Search" up above, and you will find a library of discussions we've had here in the Fly Fishing Forum of microskiff about that specific subject. Make sure you select the "Fly Fishing Forum" in your search options. Do yourself a favor and do that search. You should find all the questions to all your answers about leaders, here in the archives of this board. 

Good luck!


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## G McC (May 16, 2018)

Been using the Hatch Medium Stiff mono with flouro tippet and it works really well. For the flouro just make sure you aren't going down in diameter too much from the diameter of the last section of mono. Same lb test in flouro is usually smaller in diameter than mono.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

State fish rob said:


> does any one tie their own fly line leaders anymore ? If so which leader material do you think holds up the best?


Yes, and Seguar blue


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I tie my own. Seaguar Blue. 40" 40#, 30" 30#, 20" 20# for 9 wt. and under.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I tie a mix based on what I am doing. Some I tie full Mono using Ande and some I tie an Ande butt section and the rest Fluro with Sunline Sniper. I also bought a bunch of Scientific Anglers Leaders on closeout so good in that dept. for a while as well.


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

FlyBy said:


> I tie my own. Seaguar Blue. 40" 40#, 30" 30#, 20" 20# for 9 wt. and under.


I do 4' of 40 lb, 3' of 30 lb, 2' of 20 lb plus a bite as required. Seaguar Blue


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

Typically using Yo-Zuri & Mason brand depending on application. Will be taking Cortland for a test run here shortly.


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## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

Am I the only one who throws just straight up Fluro line??? No fancy leaders... I dont step up and step down in line size. Never found a benefit to it. Doesn't increase cast distance just increases the amount of knots in my leader...


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Am I the only one who throws just straight up Fluro line??? No fancy leaders... I dont step up and step down in line size. Never found a benefit to it. Doesn't increase cast distance just increases the amount of knots in my leader...


We call it the Straight Homeboy and have used it in certain situations. I understand what you are saying about a tapered leader not increasing casting distance but then again, that isn't what it is designed to do.


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## I Heart Big Ugglies (Oct 5, 2017)

Then what exactly is it designed to do?
Besides a breaking point for tarpon (Makes sense)
Also besides a bite tipet (Makes sense)

I am saying why throw 40 to 30 to 20 to a 40 Bite?? Why not just straight 20 with a bite tipet of 40? Not trying to come across as snooty. Just trying to understand because I've been throwing "Straight Homebody" for years.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Then what exactly is it designed to do?
> Besides a breaking point for tarpon (Makes sense)
> Also besides a bite tipet (Makes sense)
> 
> I am saying why throw 40 to 30 to 20 to a 40 Bite?? Why not just straight 20 with a bite tipet of 40? Not trying to come across as snooty. Just trying to understand because I've been throwing "Straight Homebody" for years.


I think it's less about break strength and more about stiffness. Thicker line at the butt is supposed to be about equal stiffness as the fly line, so it rolls out/turns over smoothly, then gets more flexible at the end to deliver the fly softly.


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## Timucua_Outdoors (Oct 15, 2016)

It’s sll about tight loops and getting your fly to turn over and a longer tapered leader allows the fly to turn over and if your casting correctly you will have tighter loops. If your fly line itself wasn’t tapered casting would be much harder. Think about a tapered leader finishing out the taper of the fly line.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Then what exactly is it designed to do?
> Besides a breaking point for tarpon (Makes sense)
> Also besides a bite tipet (Makes sense)
> 
> I am saying why throw 40 to 30 to 20 to a 40 Bite?? Why not just straight 20 with a bite tipet of 40? Not trying to come across as snooty. Just trying to understand because I've been throwing "Straight Homebody" for years.


Because your leader loop will hinge or collapse on itself and the entire leader and unfortunately the fly not be able to fully unroll out to the end of the leader. So the fly could end up dropping before your fly line unrolls out.

Do this, go out somewhere where you can lawn cast the fly you are using. Make your cast with that fly (and not just a piece of fuzz, but the actual fly with the bend of the hook cut off). Then set your flyrod down on the ground and walk out and take a look at where your fly actually landed. You'll find that the fly didn't quite land where you were hoping it would be. That makes the difference of being more accurate with fly placement.... or not.

What the tapered system does is the casting energy from to to the loop in the fly line, that follows the taper from the fly line, from the fattest part of the fly line head, down the front taper of the fly line, to the leader, and then transfers that same energy all the way down to the fly through a continuous taper over of a certain distance. Too long of a distance from fly line to the fly can lose it's energy. Too short and it houses too much energy and makes the fly slap the water or do crazy things. 

So at that point, if you just put on a 8-10ft straight piece of 20lb leader material like FC as a leader from fly line to fly, when the energy comes off the larger diameter at the end of the fly line, to a straight thin piece of 20lb material, it's like a bottle neck at that connection point (fly line to leader) and most of that energy is choked out at that point. What energy remaining will be not have that consistency needed to fully unroll out that leader of the entire distance of the leader, in a fluid motion. So basically, the leader runs out of gas and who know where that fly will land. That can make a difference when a laid up poon of tailing red is facing a certain direction and your fly doesn't land at the business end of that fish. Or, it just runs out of gas and never makes it to that fish and you only had one shot at it. Or, the fly does a loopty-loop and smacks the water in front of the fish, sending that fish into the next county.

Diagram A & B are examples of what can happen with non-tapered straight leaders.








Diagram C is the results of a proper tapered leader and the end results of the energy being transferred from the fly line to the fly, through the tapered diameter leader.

So these tapered leader recipes are designed to help transfer that energy down so that the fly can be extended to the furthest most point of the entire system, therefore, keeping the fly line itself as far away from the fish as possible for a more stealthy presentation. And at that point, that's about when the energy is dirbursed where the fly just turns over about the time the energy ends, for a light and gentle presentation to the fish without spooking it. It also helps it to extent straight out inline with the fly line to be more accurate. 

Often times, homeboy rigs like you just described will hinge and the fly will go left, or right, leader will not unroll out, the fly will smack the water and therefore spook the fish, or the fly wouldn't make it past the fly line.

Try a properly prepared tapered leader, whether it be a store bought knotless leader, or a hand tied leader that follows a certain recipe for whatever line weight and fly size you are throwing, and you will see the difference, I promise. 

Ted Haas


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Then what exactly is it designed to do?
> Besides a breaking point for tarpon (Makes sense)
> Also besides a bite tipet (Makes sense)
> 
> I am saying why throw 40 to 30 to 20 to a 40 Bite?? Why not just straight 20 with a bite tipet of 40? Not trying to come across as snooty. Just trying to understand because I've been throwing "Straight Homebody" for years.


Ted did an excellent job of explaining and I will reiterate, get the proper tapered leader for the job and you will see an all around better presentation. I did not take it as you were being snooty and I was not trying to be either. As with some floating clear lines or shooting docks for snook at night, a Straight 25 or 30lb fluro is excellent, just as the streamer guys in sweetwater when throwing sinking lines. They can use straight 3x for a short piece and have excellent contact. Again, a straight homeboy can have its place but do give a well put together tapered leader a try and I think you will see a difference.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

nativejax said:


> Ted did an excellent job of explaining and I will reiterate, get the proper tapered leader for the job and you will see an all around better presentation. I did not take it as you were being snooty and I was not trying to be either. As with some floating clear lines or shooting docks for snook at night, a Straight 25 or 30lb fluro is excellent, just as the streamer guys in sweetwater when throwing sinking lines. They can use straight 3x for a short piece and have excellent contact. Again, a straight homeboy can have its place but do give a well put together tapered leader a try and I think you will see a difference.


I throw at a lot of mangroves and docks and I have to tell you that a tapered leader can make the difference rolling the fly under that dock or that bush.... or hooking it. There, accuracy is important and everything you can do to increase your odds, helps being more successful or not so much.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

I most always make my leaders for salt water. I always stick to the 5 X the line weight formula for the butt section.
An example- 8 weight line = 3 ft. #40, tapered to 3Ft. #30, tapered to 3ft. #20 at this point I normally put in a section of fluoro and bite tippet. I most always fish around 12' leaders.

As Ted pointed out, hinging is the main problem. If hinging occurs you will loose the ability to control landings and impart subtle curves into the cast. 

When you use too light a butt section the heavier fly lines and their speed simply overpower the mono and collapse it on every forward and back cast. If you have lead eyes or other weight you can get away with lighter line to some extent. In this scenario the flies weight will carry it and most of the time dump it out in front. This undersized butt is however subjected to far more wear than a properly sized butt section. You should expect the breaking strength of your line to be gradually reducing as you fish it.

If you regularly use bulky wind resistant flies like poppers, divers, gurglers etc. A properly balanced leader will improve your ability to present the fly. Over a day of casting it will also save on shoulder wear.

Ken


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Backwater said:


> I throw at a lot of mangroves and docks and I have to tell you that a tapered leader can make the difference rolling the fly under that dock orthat bush.... or hooking it. There, accuracy is important and everything you can do to increase your odds, helps being more successful or not so much.


Oh I am with you there.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Am I the only one who throws just straight up Fluro line??? No fancy leaders... I dont step up and step down in line size. Never found a benefit to it. Doesn't increase cast distance just increases the amount of knots in my leader...


“Don’t always throw homeboy, but when I do”. Had to throw straight 50 lb fluoro to a crawling back-out red after a skippy had garbaged the leader. Worked fine


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Seymour fish said:


> “Don’t always throw homeboy, but when I do”. Had to throw straight 50 lb fluoro to a crawling back-out red after a skippy had garbaged the leader. Worked fine


Comments on designing a leader to fit the task are spot-on. Fly weight, aerodynamics, flyline characteristics, wind speed, sink rate, etc. easy to play with and lots of fun when you get it right


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

I’m in 100% agreement with Ted and those who fish a longer tapered leader, but what REALLY amazes me is that people who spend $80-90 on a line that’s scientifically designed to turnover with a tapered leader attached, will just tie on a straight shot of mono only to see it falling in a heap, they are giving up distance, accuracy and delicacy. 
JC


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Thought i might try 50# 20 # 50#. 36”-12”-36”. Might get it turn over in the wind. Kinda like reloading shot gun shells ,


I Heart Big Ugglies said:


> Am I the only one who throws just straight up Fluro line??? No fancy leaders... I dont step up and step down in line size. Never found a benefit to it. Doesn't increase cast distance just increases the amount of knots in my leader...


negative on the only one


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm new to this fly game but found that a straight piece of heavier mono made it far easier to deliver poppers and really wind resistant flies.


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## G McC (May 16, 2018)

jimsmicro said:


> I'm new to this fly game but found that a straight piece of heavier mono made it far easier to deliver poppers and really wind resistant flies.


Sometimes it's good to have the fly slap down when you want the commotion to attract the fish. With a popper you aren't typically casting for accuracy to spooky fish anyways. One thing to keep in mind is you always want the leader to be the weak link in your set up and have something that will break before the fly line. I think a lot of fly lines have a 30lb or less rating on the core.


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## flatzcrazy (Feb 5, 2013)

Backwater said:


> Because your leader loop will hinge or collapse on itself and the entire leader and unfortunately the fly not be able to fully unroll out to the end of the leader. So the fly could end up dropping before your fly line unrolls out.
> 
> Do this, go out somewhere where you can lawn cast the fly you are using. Make your cast with that fly (and not just a piece of fuzz, but the actual fly with the bend of the hook cut off). Then set your flyrod down on the ground and walk out and take a look at where your fly actually landed. You'll find that the fly didn't quite land where you were hoping it would be. That makes the difference of being more accurate with fly placement.... or not.
> 
> ...


Chico would be proud of that explanation!!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

flatzcrazy said:


> Chico would be proud of that explanation!!


Funny, I never read his book on the subject nor talked with him about it. Maybe I should since I hear it's a good read. But thanks for the compliment. 

Last time I talked with him recently, he was carrying a small oxygen pack. Still very positive person and always fun to talk to. Sad to see such a great icon in our sport having health issues.  A very caring and given person tho.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

G McC said:


> Sometimes it's good to have the fly slap down when you want the commotion to attract the fish. With a popper you aren't typically casting for accuracy to spooky fish anyways. One thing to keep in mind is you always want the leader to be the weak link in your set up and have something that will break before the fly line. I think a lot of fly lines have a 30lb or less rating on the core.


This is true. The reason I use heavier leaders is also that I fish very heavy cover, lots of sharp rocks and oysters as well as toothy critters that show up an inopportune times. The leader is always still the weakest link, and my reel isn't capable of putting out enough drag pressure to break 30 pound main line or leader I don't think.


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## sevenweight (Sep 3, 2015)

jimsmicro said:


> This is true. The reason I use heavier leaders is also that I fish very heavy cover, lots of sharp rocks and oysters as well as toothy critters that show up an inopportune times. The leader is always still the weakest link, and my reel isn't capable of putting out enough drag pressure to break 30 pound main line or leader I don't think.


Grab the spool and point the rod (if you really want to break the line) or put the load at the thickest part of the butt.


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