# Keeper? Please advise



## Loujitsu82 (Oct 19, 2009)

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff178/loujitsu82/Boat/

12' skiff Mfg unknown. All I can make out on the ID plate is 18hp max & 900lbs max load

What a cool site!
I have been lurking in the forum for a couple weeks  reading all the boatyard basics etc. and decided to post some pics for some advice. Above is a link to my new project. I got this boat for free and would love some input. 

As far as my fiberglass experience goes I have replaced a floor on my old boat and am currently taking auto body college courses. 

I have been in the market for an aluminum boat around this size but came across this and I'm hoping I can make it work.

I would appreciate suggestions on fiberglass repair recommendations per photobucket pics.  Poly vs epoxy, type of glass to use as well as suggestions on hull reinforcement. Also if anyone can guess the make/model that would be cool too.   

Thank you for reading my post.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff178/loujitsu82/Boat/
> 
> 12' skiff Mfg unknown. All I can make out on the ID plate is 18hp max & 900lbs max load
> 
> ...



Definitely a keeper.
If you can afford to go with epoxy, then definitely do so.

I have no clue about the make and model, but it sure does look nice.

I'd start with a grinder with a flap wheel on it and get to grinding out those spider cracks. 
See what's underneath.
If you need to throw some chop strand mat to fix it then do so.

For anything structural I really like 1708 biaxial cloth. 
Really strong, and very easy to work with.
I paid about $9 a yard for it.


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## tom_in_orl (Dec 9, 2006)

Welcome to the forum  [smiley=beer.gif]

That looks like a fun project. You will get plenty of support here on microskiff.com. Start looking here for previous threads that cover some of the same information you are requesting. Also keep in mind the more specific your questions the more you are likely generate interest in your project and get good responses.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1246450083

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1209781296

http://www.google.com/search?q=epoxy+resin+site%3Amicroskiff.com


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

I would say that's definitely a keeper.  

From what I could tell in the pic's those hull cracks are nothing to worry about. Like str8 said, grind away some material and get a better look. Worse case you grind more material around the sight and lay in new stuff to build it back, grind smooth any overlap, re-gel or what ever and yer good to go. Ain't nothin' on a fiberglass boat that can't be repaired to good as new or better.  

Ditto on using epoxy resin too, especially for any structural or below the waterline sort of repairs. Epoxy makes the best mechanical bond to old polyester resins and is stronger too. Costs more but is well worth it for these older restoration projects.

The thing I would be concerned with here is whats under the deck, stringers, water logged flotation foam, etc. If you really think you'll keep this thing for a while, I'd probably recommend cutting the floor out and redoing it from the stringers up. You could use like a 3/4" hole saw to cut some plugs out and inspect for water damage in the wood core before taking the whole thing out too. Gotta be a bit careful where you to get a plug so you don't all the way through the hull.  Still that's easily repairable, but it's better if you don't have to.


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## Loujitsu82 (Oct 19, 2009)

I really appreciate the support guys.

Str8, Thanks for the initial response,
I plan on putting it on some saw horses this weekend (I hope) and start sanding/grinding. 

Tom, thanks for the links. I've been trying to do my homework.

Deerfly, I like the idea of getting some core samples. It was full of water when I found it and after pouring it out it was suprisingly light so Im hoping the foam is sealed good.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

Looks like a keeper to me.  Like others stated, epoxy is the superior material but what I don't understand on this site is why it is always recommended even on a "budget" project.  Face it, that "poly" boat has been around a while and with proper repair w/ poly, it will be a round a while longer.  If you choose to go the epoxy route, then gelcoat is out of the question unless you use a barrier and IMHO, that's just a PIA running the cost of the project up even higher.  Don't misunderstand, if I was building high quality boat from scratch, I would consider using epoxy but most boats are built and repaired w/poly every day.  For smaller repairs, you wouldn't see a huge cost difference and epoxy may be you best bet but again realize you can't go directly over it with gelcoat.

as always, just my .0000000000000002 sense

CR


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

oh Ron, quite being such a grouch.   Here's the thing with epoxy, it does bond better than any other alternative to reasonably well prepared old polyester layups. For the ham-n-egger that is key to a successful project. If you have to replace anything structurally significant like stringers or transom material, tie it in with epoxy and glass tape. If you want to save money and create bulkheads, panels or deck material by sandwiching marine ply with polyester resin and glass, fine. Just tie it in to the old glass hull with epoxy and tape. If you want to save time and spend more money for nidacore and similar materials for decks, bulkheads and what not, tie it in with epoxy and tape.  

I've seen enough new poly over new poly de-laminate on very popular, perhaps legendary fishing boats enough times not to trust poly over poly when the lamination schedule intervals are measured in decades instead instead of hours.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> oh Ron, quite being such a grouch.   Here's the thing with epoxy, it does bond better than any other alternative to reasonably well prepared old polyester layups. For the ham-n-egger that is key to a successful project. If you have to replace anything structurally significant like stringers or transom material, tie it in with epoxy and glass tape. If you want to save money and create bulkheads, panels or deck material by sandwiching marine ply with polyester resin and glass, fine. Just tie it in to the old glass hull with epoxy and tape. If you want to save time and spend more money for nidacore and similar materials for decks, bulkheads and what not, tie it in with epoxy and tape.
> 
> I've seen enough new poly over new poly de-laminate on very popular, perhaps legendary fishing boats enough times not to trust poly over poly when the lamination schedule intervals are measured in decades instead instead of hours.



Like I said, IMHO epoxy is the superior material but not always appropriate for the project. If you are so set that epoxy is the only way to go maybe you should have bought the new Chitum Skiff instead of the Panga. Or is epoxy layup an option for Panga's now?


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## Loujitsu82 (Oct 19, 2009)

OK, So I pulled the black plugs out of all the "foam" compartments(one in the front, 2 in the back and one in the floor) and the foam is wet. Wood is waterlogged  The stringers are odd to me as they dont run all the way from the transom. Their short...and round... I'll try to get some pics posted soon. Do I replace the foam or just let it dry out then seal the areas where the water got in?


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

Pics first but you might just let the foam dry out. Are the stringers wood? What wood is waterlogged? Transom?

If you save the foam, this could be a case where I could recommend epoxy (imagine that ) to reseal. Poly resin can eat foam.  If it's not structural, I would probably still use poly resin and kick it hot to prevent it from eating the foam. This way I could simply gelcoat right over it.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

ironically, another inferior virtue of polyester resin vs epoxy is that polyester resins are not waterproof. With trailerable boats that hardly ever matters unless like in your case there was long standing water on the deck, which generally leads to the below deck conditions you're now describing and is exactly what led to my stated concern above in my first response. :

Ron, I'm talking epoxy as an "easy" best choice for these 20+ year old hull renovation's and raising the odd's of success for those that have to ask the question. People that work in the industry or make a living or hobby out of restoring old boats already know what their options are and/or which material makes the most sense where. 

As fer the Panga, well you already know its the best and "most" skiff out there for the price.    And I've got 9 years and 10 months for it to come unglued.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> ironically, another inferior virtue of polyester resin vs epoxy is that polyester resins are not waterproof. With trailerable boats that hardly ever matters unless like in your case there was long standing water on the deck, which generally leads to the below deck conditions you're now describing and is exactly what led to my stated concern above in my first response. :
> 
> Ron, I'm talking epoxy as an "easy" best choice for these 20+ year old hull renovation's and raising the odd's of success for those that have to ask the question. People that work in the industry or make a living or hobby out of restoring old boats already know what their options are and/or which material makes the most sense where.
> 
> As fer the Panga, well you already know its the best and "most" skiff out there for the price.    And I've got 9 years and 10 months for it to come unglued.


LOL and if it does come unglued, they will repair w/poly.   ;D ;D ;D

You need to come by the shop and check out the four 26'rs we pulled out of shipping containers last week. Epoxy peel ply  First one (a fifth) is done and will make it's public debut soon. 

IMHO, the epoxy vs poly debate can run hand and hand with the wood vs composite core. Personally, I'm a fan of epoxy/wood.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

> LOL  and if it does come unglued, they will repair w/poly.   ;D ;D ;D


may be true, but not because poly is the best choice. They have to weigh cost vs probability of secondary bonding issues, plus they are professional boat builders and will know what to do, even if it means using epoxy when they have to get the best results.  

But again, that scenario is not the same as we're talking here with a restoration/incremental repair by a weekend warrior to an old hull of questionable origin. No offense Lou, I'm a weekend warrior too and hopeless DIY'r. I'll be 52 in a few weeks and I still work on my own cars, boats, tractor and what ever. Not because I have to, but because I can. Plus, I know exactly what was done as well as what was not done and I sleep better because of it. 

Anyway, enough of that... Lou I do agree with Ron on the pic thing. That's nearly a must for anyone to really help you over the internet. But based on what you've described so far, your project falls squarely into the typical "old boat" and "water damaged" repair category.   Now you'll have to decide how much time and money you're willing to devote to fixing it.

I still think its keeper though, even if you rebuild it from the stringers up. Plus, its only a 12' hull, so even if you went the epoxy route you're not looking at a lot of material. Good luck and keep us posted...


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## Loujitsu82 (Oct 19, 2009)

Subfloor Damage










Stringers




























The fiberglass over the stringers seems intact unlike some spots over the subfloor. 

WTF are the stringer made of? Dowels or glass.


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## Loujitsu82 (Oct 19, 2009)

> > LOL  and if it does come unglued, they will repair w/poly.   ;D ;D ;D
> 
> 
> may be true, but not because poly is the best choice. They have to weigh cost vs probability of secondary bonding issues, plus they are professional boat builders and will know what to do, even if it means using epoxy when they have to get the best results.
> ...


I do want to stay as cheap as possible without skimping. I too am a die hard DIY. I do all my mechanic work myself too. I worked as a carpenter for 6 years so im pretty good with power tools and a measuring tape. 

I got all the water out of the sub floor chamber. If the wood is sturdy after it dries do I fore go replacing it? Whats your opinion on the drain plug hole? lol The stringers are seemingly sealed and intact. Not sure if they need anything. 

I definitely wanna spend the time on this thing. It will suit my needs as a bay/lake fishing boat.


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## Loujitsu82 (Oct 19, 2009)

Update

1/6/2010

Made Hull repairs using Biaxial 1708 as suggested. I ended up using epoxy resin. Im glad i did, It came out Cherry! Now for paint, I'll post some pics soon. ;D


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

I would like to know how much your boat weighs. If it is an older, heavy to begin with boat that got waterlogged and has structural damage, you may want to think in terms of repair only what is needed. Then you can use it enough to determine whether or not you want to invest the time and money it would take to create your ideal boat.

There are a lot of great old hulls out there if you look for them. Some would better suit your needs than others. In the meantime working on this one will be a great learning experience and you will likely recoup most or all of what you invest in it if you decide to sell later.

Best regards,
Frank_S


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