# beginers questions



## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

First time here. I chose my name to show that I know nothing about skinny water I also no nothing about salt water. I live on and fish Lake Superior where boat draft is never an issue. I am buying a place on pine island in Florida and cannot wait to get down there next fall/winter. I'm not at all sure what kind of boat, what size boat or what hull will be the best suited for me. Ideally I want something that fishes the area well, but also that can be used to haul 2 to 4 people to cayo costa across pine island sound. I also really like the idea of economy of operation. Thats why I am on this site. Not only are these micro skiffs beautiful I love the idea of filling up a 40/50 hp motor instead of a 200. Any thoughts?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Welcome my fellow yuper!

Pine Island is a unique area because there is skinny water and big water and places not well suited to micros. 

If you want to fish the super skinny then a 14-16'er would fit the bill. But with Boca Grande just north a 18-20 bay would be much more suitable.

A flats boat would get you out most days and at much less of a price. 

Just keep reading and decide which way you want to go and then narrow your focus, eh.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

close Ducknut but a hundred miles away in MN. I was afraid someone was going to suggest a bay boat...but they all seem so big. I just unloaded one aluminum boat and one canoe this week in my quest to start something all new. I already own a 21 ft. grady white but do not want to haul it back and forth. I think I also just want to get small. Is there no perfect little boat in the middle?


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## JimCameron (Jan 3, 2010)

Boston Whaler Montauk.

Mako 17

Dusky 17

etc., etc., etc.,

Welcome to the Forum, and enjoy PI.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks Jim. I'm sensing a trend.....maybe I'll need two boats. One that does the job and one that I just like to think about.


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

Your going to find it a great deal of a pain to haul 4 people with a 50hp motor. The boat I just sold was a 17ft Cobia 174cc with a Yamaha 90 and a custom cupped prop. Two people was fine, but 3 sucked and 4 killed the performance. Especially in a following sea. My next boat will be something in the 21 Grady class.... But cheaper. haha A Grady is out of my range. That boat will be for going out to bottom fish and troll. I have a 16ft Gheenoe clone with a 10hp for skinny water and the river. It will only hold 2


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks Nismoran....my Grady is an oldie but goody. God bless sweet water. Unfortunatly there are no fresh water snook or tarpon or unfrozen surfaces 5 months of the year. How about hybrids......pangas?....ugly boats.....thoughts?


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Nothing wrong with panga-style boats. I love the Andros Backwater 18. A 40 or a 50 may be a little under powered for what it sounds like you want to do. 70-150HP's will allow you to have the range you need for that body of water. In my opinion, for what you are looking for a Hewes Redfisher 18 sounds like a good fit. I am very happy with my Native SUV 17, but if I were to have a bigger skiff that was not a poling skiff, a Redfisher 21 would be it. That would be a little big, maybe, but an 18 can give you the best of both worlds. Plus the hulls are timeless and you can find used 18's very easily. You are moving to a great area and you will enjoy it.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

I would look at an 18' Panga Marine.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks shadowcast and brazilnut. Took a quick look at Backwater....beautiful. Expensive? probably.. I've looked/dreamed at many hewes redfishers on line. For sure the older ones are affordable. They always seem to have high horse power engines. This is where I am really stupid. These are not huge boats. Why the big HP.? Is the big HP necessary for take off in skinny water? What is the trade off with a boat like this and a smaller lighter engine. I don't need to get anywhere fast.


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

Hahaha. I've often wondered that myself. I have always frowned upon those 250hp bassboats that try to run everyone over around here. I can sort of understand it for someone who fishes tournaments, but I wonder if any of those guys bothered fishing the marina where they took off at 80+mph...

I have always like the idea and looks of the Pangas, but have never been in one. Heard NOTHING but great things about them. I have fished from a Hewes and a Maverick and they were both GREAT boats. I dont know the particular models, but would not try to go offshore in either of them. Nor would I put more than three people in one...

Sounds like you need to tote the Grady to the Keys AND get a skiff...

Tell you what. You seem like a decent guy. You can leave the Grady here in Alabama with me to care for, so that you dont have to tote it all the way back up north for those frozen lakes. I'll take REAL good care of it for you ;-) I'll even crank it for you now and then... wink, wink.


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## OB_One1 (May 12, 2011)

Welcome to Florida and our great fishing possibilities.  Someone mentioned a Panga,  it's a great boat.  I have fished and dove out of 18 footers down in the Yucatan.  Have seen them run in very shallow water and 25 miles offshore powered by the Mexican fishermens choice, a 40 HP endura.  They have a planing hull and the 40 pushes em on very nicely.  They might be your boat of choice to run sort of skinny yet still handle offshore.  Good luck and let us know what you decide.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks for the replies ob one and nismoron...I think I will be looking at a wider group of boats. Starting to think about looking for a used low hour, freshwater motor. come fall they usually start to get pretty common. Someone mentioned a BW montauk. A friend just sold one (older 60's) with a 99 merc 90 that had less than 100 hrs for $3800. I really toyed with buying it just for the power but maybe the boat would have been good too. Motor would have done well on the back of a panga.....In Matlacha a month ago I looked at an Ugly boat. Looked kind of panga like. Dealer told me it was not. It is much wider and more specific to flats. Heard anything about these. Looked like a really nice boat.


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## captd (Feb 8, 2011)

...you should maybe be more specific about what you will be doing, and what you expect out of your boat. because it seems a little like you might need 2 boats. you mention you don't need to get anywhere fast, but that area is kinda big and if you are in bad weather (comes out of nowhere here), you might need to get somewhere a little quickly. i drive an hpx micro with a yamaha 40... i love it, but if i had 4 people and hadn't grown up in and around saltwater in florida, forget it. a micro is a really specific boat (i mean micros in general) for a really specific purpose--not for hauling a couple of people thru big water and passes... 
if you're more casual and varied, i would look at like a maverick master angler, or bay boat... a 21'... something like that. or a contender or a yellowfin or pathfinder. you will not fish less than 10 or 12 inches of water, but you aren't gonna fish that anyway with more than one angler... 
maybe a 90-150 hp engine... 
at least till you learn the water and especially the passes... even so, with a smaller vessel (ie... a micro) you will be wet a bunch, and scared at least a little bit... 
anyway good luck.


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## cvilt (May 31, 2010)

Welcome Deepwater . I moved from the Great Lakes 10 years ago and brought my 22 I/O down and got rid of it quick. I liked skinny better went to a BW Montauk and loved it but it was still to big to get to the SKINNY stuff and a little cramped on deck space. Try a few first. I could take the Montauk out allmost all year and it would move with a 90. I do like my 15' tunnel wit a 25 it is easy on the wallet.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks Danny and Pathfinder. First of all Danny I need to put you in touch with my wife reguarding the two boat thing. I'm in complete agreement.... Truth is I don't know what I want or need. Fact is for the first year I'm sure a kayak would be more than enough to keep me interested and who knows maybe forever. Must say tho I am going to want to fish Boca Granda pass. Not every day but at least once in a while. Same goes for the beaches off Caya Costa. I get it...there is no perfect boat, but there is something close... Ijust know it. Thanks again for the input. Pathfinder...thanks for the input on bringing a boat down. I get it... our (northern) boats are simply not prepared for salt water. tight lines


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## jn4oldschool (Jun 20, 2011)

I was going to answer this thread earlier and decided to just save my 2 cent. But since you mention the idea of two boats again, I would suggest a decent sized bay boat or panga to get you out in the deep. Fish it for a while and if you decide that you want to go skinny now and then I would suggest getting a Gheenoe also. These are relatively low priced and are great little boats. The LT 25 especially would be just the ticket for you, though they get a bit more pricy than the classics.

http://www.customgheenoe.com


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

now we are getting somewhere Swamp Shark. I'm cyber obsesseed with Panga type boats but also taking a serious look at a small (15 ft.) aluminum Grumman sport boat that I already own. Because of this site.... I have learned about the Gheenoe and have been scheming about modifying my sport boat into a passable version. I don't know yet if this is smart. I've read a lot about aluminum boats and salt water and also alot about aluminum boats and noise as reguards flats fishing and know this is not perfect but it is paid for. Maybe two boats is the answer....but my wife has not heard about it yet.


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree.  I just got a Gheenoe clone for $450 witha trailer, trolling motor, and a 10hp Evinrude.  GREAT shallow water boat and would not sell it unless I was getting a real Gheenoe.  I also have three kayaks (2 get used, 1 spare)that we fish out of most of the time.  Cant beat them for shallows, but 10 miles round trip is about the practical limit if you are fising along the way.. You can pick up a decent used Gheenoe for $1500 to $3000 depending on year and trim. I want an LT25 BAD!!!

My floatilla looks something like this:
2 Ocean Kayak Prowler 13 Anglers  (for REALLY shallow and ultimate independance)
1 Lucky Strike 16ft Gheenoe Clone  (for those trips that are just too much to paddle)
1 20-22ft Trophy Walkaround coming soon (for those trips to the reefs and trolling for Kings!)  I cant afford the Grady.
And a partidge in a pear tree...


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

LOL Nismoron...my collection is down by three in the last week. I sold a 16 foot lund (basic aluminum) with a 35, sold a 17 ft. wenonah canoe and gave a 12 ft. grumman bass(ish) boat to my brother. That leaves me with my 21 Grady (oldie but goodie) a 15 ft. sport boat and a vintage 15 ft. cedar row boat. What can I say it's a weakness. What do you think about the aluminum boat in salt stuff?


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

How much can you spend? 

Also if you are not keeping you're wife in the loop this may be a wasted thread. 

I would sell the aluminum skiff.

If you don't plan on poling the skiff then again I would say an 18' Panga which can float in 6"-8" of water, run at mid 30's w/ 2 and a 50hp motor getting around 10 mpg while staying under 20K.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

BrazilNut....let's just say I cannot afford to buy the wrong boat. At the start of this thread I admitted to complete ignorance. I'm a little less ignorant after a few days here but have a long way to go. My guess is that one day I will suddenly own a boat and hopfully with good advise it will be a good fit. Right now... I'm doing the homework.


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## JaxLaxFish (Aug 23, 2010)

Personally I would take the aluminum boat down and fish it for the first year. You never really know what type of fishing you might decide you like the best. The john boat may not be the best boat for fishing the flats due to the hull slap but you can still catch fish when the conditions are right and still get skinny. Then you can make an educated decision on which boat to buy because there really is no do it all boat. By attempting to buy one you will more than likely end up selling it in a year anyway for the boat you really want.


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

Hell, use the 15ft cedar...

If I had to narrow it all down to one "do all", I would probably be looking into a Panga... I would probably put more motor on it than a 50, but I would be trying to use if for some mild offshore.. You know 7-15 miles out... If you are only using it for inshore/bay/flats, then 50hp would probaly be an excellent choice. I'm actually slightly considering a 21ft Panga type for my next boat. But I want a head. 

...Seems everyone in this discussion keeps coming back to a Panga type design. ;D


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks jaxlaxfish....how bad can it be to be on water you've never seen, fishing for fish you have never caught? good advise.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

Nismoran...check out the 18 panga marine on sarasota craigs list. Sorry no head but maybe a porta potty.


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks, but WAY to far to drive for a Panga, unless it's free 
Currently unemployed anyway... Thus not already owning my 21footer...

Fortunatly the wife has a good job and can support us. My salary will be for our toys... She wants the bigger boat more than I do... During every conversation we have about my job hunt, she usually mentions the bigger boat...

Unfortunatly, bigger boat = bigger truck... :-[


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## Les_Lammers (Feb 17, 2007)

> now we are getting somewhere Swamp Shark. *I'm cyber obsesseed with Panga type boats *but also taking a serious look at a small (15 ft.) aluminum Grumman sport boat that I already own. Because of this site.... I have learned about the Gheenoe and have been scheming about modifying my sport boat into a passable version. I don't know yet if this is smart. I've read a lot about aluminum boats and salt water and also alot about aluminum boats and noise as reguards flats fishing and know this is not perfect but it is paid for. Maybe two boats is the answer....but my wife has not heard about it yet.


Use what you have when you get here and then you will have a better idea of what will work best for you.


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## kentvanhook (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree, use what you have till you can figure exactly what you want. I have a buddy that lives down there and has his big boat that doesn't get used that often! and then a 18FT sterling flats with a 115hp given its not a micro or a poling boat, but it seems to suit that area very well!! he has no trouble fishing flats for reds and fishing the mangs for snook, and  no trouble running up to the pass for poons or sharks. that is a great place love the pine island area welcome to the forum!


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## esteroali (Feb 23, 2011)

No one has mentioned ( I think ) a Carolina Skiff. They are inexpensive, shallow draft, hold a ton of people, and use less HP engine. They will do OK in a pass but not offshore. Pine Island Sound can be VERY skinny. No one boat does anything but a lot of those v-hulls mentioned will keep you in the channels.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

lots of good thoughts. Thanks all....MissD your comment about being limited to the channels is my biggest concern. There also must be a good reason there are so many carolina type skiff around.


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## floridanative1028 (May 30, 2009)

Before you even go near the saltwater you need to look over this and familiarize yourself with it.

http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/regulations/

Your wallet will thank you.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks Floridanative...Printed......I will need my reading glasses.


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

Also notice on there somewhere it says that regs may change without notice. It's probably a good idea to join a Florida fishing forum as well. If there is an undocumented change, someone will catch wind of it and make a topic. I'm on a Northern Gulf Coast forum and it has saved my bu** a few times...

I fish western FL, AL, and MS. So keeping track of regs is a pain... haha


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## boggob (Feb 20, 2007)

For versatility, you can't go wrong with a Panga. I have an 18' Pangamarine Skiff and love it. I think an 18' Panga may be too small for what you want and recommend the 22'. I think 26+ would be too big for your skinny adventures.

Or like others have said, you have your big boat for the passes and off shore and a gheenoe or kayaks for your skinny stuff.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks hambone....I've always said life is too short to own an ugly boat. It does'nt have to be expensive but it does have to be beautiful. The Pangas sure are that. Must say, I like the looks of the 18 and my goal is to be as small as possible. A person can always fish big water on a perfect day but if the boat is too big, the shallow water and tight spaces are always off limits. My Grady is old, paid for, and never seen salt. I think it would be better if it stayed that way.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Welcome to Florida, plenty of boat suggestions made so far,
but there is one important detail regarding boat ownership here, that's the hurricane factor.
If it's left outdoors during a storm, either on the trailer or on the water, kiss it good bye.
My rule of thumb is to buy the largest boat you can afford that will fit in the garage.
At least then, there's a good chance the boat will be there after a 'cane.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Your Sportboat is a very good shallow water boat. It fills the same gap up north that Gheenoes and others fill down south, i.e. something between a square stern canoe and a vee-hull. For the record, aluminum does great in saltwater. Your boat is made to bounce off river rocks; oysters won't be any worse. Many of us prefer FG because it is quieter, but I wouldn't loose any sleep over that benefit. The Sportboats don't have any flat surfaces other than the transom above water level, so they are quiet enough. 

Regarding a boat that can handle 4 people and make longer runs and handle nastier conditions, you seem to lean toward the panga and it sounds like it would be a good option for you. Most dealers will get you a test drive. You could also find a guide with one and book a trip. 

Nate


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

Nate....you seem to know the grumman sport boat. Most do not. Older ones built by Grumman aircraft co. have a cult following in my parts. They are like money in the bank here. Not a fortune but alway wanted and limited in supply. It is the last boat I will ever sell. I have no first hand knowledge of the Gheenoe but it seems the same is true of it down there. Must say this thread has taught me much. I really am thinking that I may head south with this boat and the intention of exploring and learning my way around close to home. Glad to hear your opinion that aluminum is ok in salt. Lots of theories out there that it is not. If you have any ideas on how to modify this boat to sw. fl. let me know.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

*Re: beginners questions*

I have no personal experience with them, but the guys that have them love them. I searched them before I started to build my boat because I liked the lines. We just see very few of them down south.

I wouldn't do much to it. The soft chines make it have less initial stability than a Gheenoe, so I would be very hesitant to put a deck in. Keep it simple and fish the snot out of it.

Nate


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks Nate....after my last post I googled Grumman sport boat and up came an old thread from this very site talking about this very topic. Great minds think alike and the conclusion was don't put a deck on it. But how about stick steering. I have no experience with this product. Is it any good?


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

I think the Maverick Master Angler would be a very versatile choice for your use in that area of the state. I had a MA 17 before my HPX-17, and was very pleased. The only reason I sold it was a desire to fish "skinnier"--the HPX drafts 7"-8" and is much lighter so it is much easier to pole. Good luck and welcome to Florida!


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Stick steering is a good option for smaller skiffs because it puts the operator's weight forward, which helps with planing. However, the pedestal seat with the stick on one side and a throttle on the other takes up a lot of floor space and basically is always in the way if you like to stand up to fish. I've fished old Rangers with stick steering. I didn't like it in them and I think it would be worse in a Sport Boat. I've seen Gheenoes set up with stick steer, but they don't have to work around structural thwarts. If it were me, I'd skip the hassle, keep it tiller steer for simplicity and get a tiller extension. 

Nate


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks nate...maybe a tiller extention would be all I would need. Good fishing


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## jeross (Jun 6, 2009)

On a not entirely related note:

http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/2532900372.html

I wish I had the room and money for another toy!


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thingfish...this is the right era for this boat....I tried standing on the seat just for kicks..never again, maybe 25 years ago but never again.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

OK guys....I've have come across 1990's 
16 ft. Maritime skiff cc....fresh water only with a 60 hp.....Much like a panga...much like small bay boats recomended here. I know from a past life on the east coast that they are good boats. web site says great for shallow water. Any thoughts? any fears? This boat is not set up for flats fishing but I beleave it could easily be adapted. Is it a micro skiff? Hate to lose you guys.


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## cwalden (Jun 24, 2011)

The Grumman/Gheenoe comparison is funny.  I was looking for a Grumman V-Hull when I came accross my Gheenoe clone for sale.  I love the lines on the Grummans, and I fish the Coosa river alot.  Plenty of class 2 and 3 rapids there.  Not that I would take the Grumman through them, but that tells you alot about the rest of the river.  LOTSA rocks!!!

Sorry, I know nothing of the Maritime 16...
I went to their website. The 16ft skiff looks like an old Boston Whaler mated with a Panga. haha Good looking boats


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## dwin (Mar 22, 2011)

After 35 years as a Capt., 4 years (500 hrs)with a Panga 22 & years with a 15 4 high sider Gheenoe, these are my observations. If you want to fish mostly shallow the Panga is not a good choice. their high bow profile makes it too visable for shallow fish, you can't pole it in a wind, it's a fairly noisy hull as far as hull slap, BUT I wouldn't give up my Panga for anything, While I catch more fish in shallow water with the Gheenoe you can certainly catch shallow fish in the Panga & run as skinny as almost any conventional flats boat (and skinnier than a lot) I also would not give up my Gheenoe for exploring the way back bays & catching the skinny water fish. You just have to have both a big & little water boat if you want to do both and lastly just cause it looks kinda like a Panga does not make it a Panga


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

Thankyou Finster....After a few weeks of comments and personal reflection this this is where I am....I am going to haul my 15 ft. grumman sport boat with 2.5 hp yamaha down. This is for sure. It really sounds like it will do a pretty decent job of what you guys use a Gheenoe for... and maybe for this year that will be all. Perhaps this will be good forever....I also am shopping for a small bay boat. Many on this site have recommended that I do. The more I read ,the more I want to be able to fish the gulf side beaches of
cayo costa. Presently I'm looking at a 16 ft. Maritime skiff but it seems that there are many great boats available.....when the time and price are right I'll buy a small seaworthy boat. In my dreams it will be a Panga... You have great taste in boats...both of yours are beautiful.


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## JimCameron (Jan 3, 2010)

Maritime Skiffs enjoy a great reputation especially in the NE. Even the Boston Whaler faithful accept the MS as a great boat. I believe the originators of the MS had been BW employees and took some design theory with them.

I would do a search on the MS in some other forums, HullTruth, Stripersonline, etc. Their dealer network is more Northern and consequently, more owners are up north.

Build quality reputation for the MS seems to be great, ride quality not sure. 

Upgrade your HP on the Tin boat and you will have a very competent inshore ride, enjoy.


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks jim....check out the grumman sports boat redo on this mornings Ft. Meyers craigslist. Beautiful and inspiring. This boat has an 8 horse which seems high to me but he has clearly added some weight to his boat. Lots of good ideas


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

WOW ! 7K is Waaaay to much for that grummin ! 2K tops !

For a whole lot less you can get a gheenoe classic with a 4 stroke 15 Hp ( the sweet Spot) 

the Grummin will flip on a whim ! You can flip a classic but you have to be a Complete Idiot to do that ...

That being said it is pretty ...


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## camp (Jul 31, 2011)

way too much $ for me.... but that said this is quit a transformation. Around here sport boats are prized because they ride perfectly in the bed of an 8 ft. box and can be easily dragged or carried to water without landings. Mine will remain utilitarian....hats off tho


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