# "New" Outboard...worth keeping?



## rkmurphy

Just picked this up for free. Sitting in a yard for God knows how long. Luckily...it was covered up. The guy just wanted it gone. It will be for a J16 15" transom. Should I keep it or sell it? It looks like it has some sort of shaft extension on it that I would have removed. I can't do any of the work myself so I would have to pay to have it done. Don't know if it runs or not or what it needs. I also want to get a tiller kit for it...is that possible/cost efficient? I'll remove the cowl tonight and see what it looks like underneath. It really is cleaner than it looks...just needs to be hosed off. Here's pics


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## B.Lee

Looks kinda rough,I don't think I'd spend too much on it trying to get it running. These motors aren't bad, but they are loud and rough.

You might be better off cleaning it up and selling on Ebay for whatever it'll bring. Maybe even part it out. Definitely clean her up good first, someone out there needs some parts off of it.

On the other hand, if you clean it up, put some fresh gas/oil in it and it cranks and runs, hang it on the back and run it. The price is right!


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## rkmurphy

Can't start her...no controls. Like I said...I want tiller. Noise, as long as it isn't horrible, isn't an issue. I'm not sure what you mean by rough. I just want it to be efficient on fuel (as a 2 stroke can be...) and RELIABLE. It's mostly going to get me to my fishing spot and I'll pole or troll when I get there...but still would love to go joy riding from time to time. What about the shaft? Is it possible to remove that extension?

And what about the tiller situation?


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## Brett

Without more info, I'd guess that to be an early '70's commercial 40 hp.
The 2 part lower unit is what indicates the commercial usage.
Was easier to service on a regular basis without special pullers.
Electric start remote setup from the factory. Standard engine was 15"
shaft, to get the 20" shaft an extension and longer driveshaft was needed.
To remove the extension, you'll have to find a 15" drive shaft.
Good luck doing that with such an old motor. Seeing the corrosion on
the bolt heads tells me trying to disassemble is going to be a major
job. Sitting as long as it has, I bet the pistons and rings are one with
the engine block.


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## rkmurphy

Not sure exactly how long it has been sitting...previous owner confirmed that his father had it on a boat not horribly long ago. I would guess it hasn't been sitting more than 5-10 years. Can the electric start be by-passed for pull? I guess I would have to modify the cowl...

Corrosion isn't bad at all...looks worse in the picture. I'll look at it further when I get home...at the library studying right now. How can I tell what's going on with the pistons and rings? I guess I'll be able to tell more when I take the cowl off...

I'll post more pictures later tonight or tomorrow.

And no one has answered my tiller question!


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## Brett

Converting to tiller would be difficult, not impossible.
Finding a pull start cowl and assembly will also be
problematic, due to age. 

To see if the engine has seized, try to turn the flywheel.


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## rkmurphy

> Converting to tiller would be difficult, not impossible.
> Finding a pull start cowl and assembly will also be
> problematic, due to age.
> 
> To see if the engine has seized, try to turn the flywheel.


That's why you're the guru and Microskiff.com Chuck Norris. I'll update by the end of the night...which may be late for me...exams for the next 2 weeks...


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## Jacbo

If the engine was extended to 20" using a kit, it may have a removable driveshaft extention and water tube extention. In that case all you have to do is take those off and bolt the lower back on... might as well change the impeller while your in there.

As far as the tiller, I can see the throttle shaft in the pics and there seems to be some kind of knob(?) where the tiller would bolt on. Try taking that off and see if there's a brass gear under there, if so any older johnnyrude tiller will bolt right up. It would take one of the clamshell tillers used by OMC from the 50s all the way up to the mid 80s, when the switched from shaft driven to cable type throttles.

Keep in mind this engine will never perform like a modern 40. In my opinion the older OMC lower units with pin type props always held these motors back. There is virtually no prop selection and the props used are small for the power. It probably won't be fuel efficient or fast, but with basic maintainance, the older motors can prove to be some of the most reliable.


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## rkmurphy

Hey as long as I can run all day on less than 6 gallons and go 35+ at WOT I'm not complaining. I'm bringing my computer out to the garage with me when I check it tonight...too much info given to absorb! Haha thanks a lot everyone. I'll update by the end of tonight or tomorrow night. If everything I was told to check looks good I'll bring it to a repuatable shop within the next couple weeks and have it completely checked out.

Pray she's a keeper...this motorless boat situation is KILLING me.


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## rkmurphy

Here are the guts:






















































































































Brett: Tried to spin the flywheel and at first it wouldn't move but I wasn't really giving it any umph. So I gave it a little nidge and it moved fine. Now I can move it pretty easily. I didn't turn it too much because I'm sure there's a lack of lubrication in there. It didn't seem stuck in any way...but...may need a rebuild...I'll leave that up to whoever inspects it. I have no idea what's normal and what's not.

Tiller doesn't look difficult at all. Unbolt one part and hook up a tiller. Looks simple. Gear shift on the left side of cowl (if facing the motor). Tough to move at first but moves just fine, now. Everything probably just needs a good cleaning and fresh grease.

Corrosion is very minimal no matter how the pictures make it appear. Most of what appears to be rust in the pictures is honestly just the nasty dirt I found that filled the inside of the cowl. There is some corrosion but, like I said, very minimal.

Anyone have any more thoughts? I want to get it checked out within the next few weeks. Any good/cheap outboard mechanics in the Tampa area who will THOROUGHLY check her without asking for my first born?


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## B.Lee

Hmmm, that's three things you will likely not find in the same place:
1. Good mechanic
2. Cheap mechanic
3. A mechanic who will touch this motor

By loud, I mean twice as loud as a 25hp 2-stroke merc

By rough, I mean they have really tough rubber mounts, because they shake like crazy at idle.

Fuel efficiency? What's that? Put in enough gas/oil to run, then a lot more for lubrication, then dump the leftover. All day on 6 gallons won't cut it. Probably won't get 35 out of it either, it's no hot rod.

Don't spend too mych money on it, trust me. Get a few dollars from it as a parts motor, and invest in what you want. Patience will pay off big time in this case.


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## noeettica

Bubba in Z-Hills 352.458.3162


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## rkmurphy

> Hmmm, that's three things you will likely not find in the same place:
> 1. Good mechanic
> 2. Cheap mechanic
> 3. A mechanic who will touch this motor
> 
> By loud, I mean twice as loud as a 25hp 2-stroke merc
> 
> By rough, I mean they have really tough rubber mounts, because they shake like crazy at idle.
> 
> Fuel efficiency?  What's that?  Put in enough gas/oil to run, then a lot more for lubrication, then dump the leftover.  All day on 6 gallons won't cut it.  Probably won't get 35 out of it either, it's no hot rod.
> 
> Don't spend too mych money on it, trust me.  Get a few dollars from it as a parts motor, and invest in what you want.  Patience will pay off big time in this case.


Is the motor really that bad?  Can anyone else confirm this?  I don't want to put money into something I'm not going to be happy with...

I don't mind putting $500 or $600 if it's going to turn out great, last, and do what I want it to (look pretty with paint, run smooth, and push the J16 efficiently and relatively quick...33-36mph).  I'll still be way under my budget ($1,000).


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## Flyline

> Hmmm, that's three things you will likely not find in the same place:
> 1. Good mechanic
> 2. Cheap mechanic
> 3. A mechanic who will touch this motor
> 
> By loud, I mean twice as loud as a 25hp 2-stroke merc
> 
> By rough, I mean they have really tough rubber mounts, because they shake like crazy at idle.
> 
> Fuel efficiency? What's that? Put in enough gas/oil to run, then a lot more for lubrication, then dump the leftover. All day on 6 gallons won't cut it. Probably won't get 35 out of it either, it's no hot rod.
> 
> Don't spend too mych money on it, trust me. Get a few dollars from it as a parts motor, and invest in what you want. Patience will pay off big time in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the motor really that bad? Can anyone else confirm this? I don't want to put money into something I'm not going to be happy with...
> 
> I don't mind putting $500 or $600 if it's going to turn out great, last, and do what I want it to. I'll still be way under my budget ($1,000).
Click to expand...

Any marine mechanic normally charge u $60-90 bucks an hour to just inspect the motor or carb cleaned or maybe they inspected and turn out it's a bad motor......don't waste your money on mechainc if u not sure about it.

Bring it over to my shop and I will do it for beer and teach u few things about basically maintence on motors and what to look for before u buy a used motor.

Let me know....


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## rkmurphy

Whitesnooky I sent you a pm on the CG forum


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## B.Lee

It's not that it's that bad of a motor, it just that it isn't a good enough motor to dump any money into. $500-600 would buy you a better, good running motor vs. spending the money on this one only to have a motor that still isn't that great.

I'd take whitesnooky up on the offer to help. Make it a learning experience, see what it's made of, what to look for in a used engine, etc. Chances are a carb cleaning might get it running fine, anything more and I would buy another.


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## rkmurphy

> It's not that it's that bad of a motor, it just that it isn't a good enough motor to dump any money into.  $500-600 would buy you a better, good running motor vs. spending the money on this one only to have a motor that still isn't that great.
> 
> I'd take whitesnooky up on the offer to help.  Make it a learning experience, see what it's made of, what to look for in a used engine, etc.  Chances are a carb cleaning might get it running fine, anything more and I would buy another.


I've been looking for a while now and can't seem to find much that I would be ok with for $1,000 let alone $500-600. Plus, if I find a motor at any of those prices I'm probably going to have to money into it anyways. I got this for free...so $500-600 to have a like new reliable motor wouldn't be that bad at all.

But then there's the issue of performance...you got to me with that one...

Are there even props available for these?


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## B.Lee

> ...a like new reliable motor ...


Not likely. A decent old motor, possibly, but it'll still be an ongoing maintenance project to keep it running. They were like that when new, high maintenance.

Your J16 would probably do fine with a 15hp, but it won't run 35mph. A member on here just sold a late model 15hp Evinrude for $500. Patience is the key in finding a great deal.

It's your motor now, I'm just telling you my thoughts on it. I'd save my money.


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## rkmurphy

I really do appreciate the input and I apologize if I seem like I'm being ignorant (right word?). I'm just trying to sort out the situation. I'm good with handling money...not repairing motors and boats. That's why I rely on the good people at Microskiff to guide me to where I should place my money (that I sometimes don't have )

So thanks B. Lee...seriously.

And keep the thoughts and info coming...I'm off to work.


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## Jacbo

I wish you were closer to my coast. I love working on old motors, and most importantly... spending as little as possible to get one running!

P.s. The older big motors (25+) tend to be a little rough at idle but smooth as silk up past about 2000 rpms.


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## Un-shore

I have reached a conclusion over the past two years, I will never try and revive a non running motor ever again.

There are already two major problems with a motor like this.

First is the reason/problems why it has been sitting unused for so long, the other is what damage is caused by it sitting around for so long.

I, personally would try and sell it for whatever you can. If you still want to try and keep it, put as little time into it as possible to start with. Check some basics before you decide to dive into this.

Buy some penetrant, carb cleaner and wd 40. Spray the whole thing down with wd 40 and wipe off as much gunk as possible. Soak every thread with penetrant.

Pull the sparks and spray wd 40 into the cylinders. Pull the bowl off the carb and spray the insides with carb cleaner. 

Replace the fuel line and filter and clean the fuel connector.

Drain what ever is in the lower unit and check for metal shavings. If oil comes out you are lucky. If water comes out you will have to pull the prop shaft and see if there is damage to at least the shaft bearing. If rusty water comes out you will have your answer.

This will get you going and give you a better idea of what you got and make it easier to work on.


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## rkmurphy

I don't know...I'm leaning toward selling...I don't really have the time to mess with it. Money's tight right now since the purchase of the boat and I just want it on the water...now. Haha. But I don't want to rush and end up unhappy with my cheap/quick option.


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## rkmurphy

Just a little update.  Did a little research on the model number and found out she's a 1976.  Cool to know...newer than I thought.

It is actually much cleaner than I thought, too...it's literally just dirty...

The carb doesn't even look like it was used from the outside and I took a peak inside and it looks just as good.

Quick question...what is this:










I noticed when I move the F-N-R lever on the cowling it moves another lever which seems to push in some sort of switch.  Also, it moves another lever that does something with the flywheel.  Can someone explain to me what's going on when I move this lever?

This thing isn't electric shift is it?


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## Brett

Looks like a safety device,
prevents you from starting the engine in gear.
In neutral, the switch allows current flow to the starter solenoid.
If the shift is in forward or reverse, the switch is in the off position,
and does not allow power to the starter solenoid.
No one gets hurt by the boat jumping, as the prop engages.

part id #35 in diagram

http://www.crowleymarine.com/brp_parts/diagrams/30879.cfm


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## rkmurphy

I don't know why I never thought of that...good find. Logic and reason...

I have too much accounting on my mind...

I dunno what to do...I keep going back and forth...fix it and make it new and pretty (pending knowing what it needs to be new and pretty)...or sell it for what I can get and save for a newer one...

Help...

BTW...I plan on getting the compression, etc checked Friday if all goes to plan


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## Un-shore

Just do the basic no cost stuff to it and take whitesnooky up on his offer. It might start after just some carb cleaning and fresh fuel, you never know.

If you got good compression that is a good start. then check for spark. If you got those two then the carb could be a somewhat easy fix.

The more you find out about the motor, the better sell it would make if you don't want to keep it.

If you get it running and find the lower unit is too costly to shorten a lot of sailboaters would love that motor.


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## rkmurphy

Anyone know a good way to remove some rusty bolts? They will definitely strip with a ratchet. I don't think they're in too tight, though.


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## Brett

Works on snapped off bolts, probably work on intact ones...
penetrating oil and heat

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1232374312


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## B.Lee

Is the head rusty? Can you get a pair of vice grips on the head and turn it?

Caution though, if the bolt itself is rusty, it's likely much worse inside the bolt hole. If the bolt's rusty, it's not stainless, but it'll still be corrosed inside the threads and more likely to break off, even if you can get a good grip on the head. 

Heat, finesse, and some luck are all it takes to get a stuck bolt out, but not neccessarily in that order.


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## rkmurphy

I don't have the tools to drill and retap.  Do you think if I spray some PB blaster in a couple of times, let it work throughout the day, and vice-gripped it at night it would work?  You can see the bolts I'm talking about in the pictures I posted.  The ones securing the power head to the shaft, etc.

Would be nice to get the finished product to look like this:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/photos/94181578/

I haven't completely decided to keep it yet but if compression, spark, and lower unit are all good (prop in great shape) I may just fix it over time (if I can find a d*mn tiller for it!). I don't have the money to get a newer motor right now and I think it may be a fun and knowledge building experience (and frusterating of course...if it wasn't then it wouldn't be worth the finished product!). This way I have a motor and I can put bare minimum in it to get it running good and have something to use for the time being. Then as time goes on I can make it like new and have something I really like.

Just a thought...no final decisions have been made, yet.

I've heard of idling/rough idling problems with these years but if I can get it tolerable and as long as it doesn't affect reliablility...who cares? If it runs great and gets me around then I am content.

Any thoughts? And please continue to answer the rusty bolt question.


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## Brett

watch carefully "grasshopper"

google "how to loosen rusty bolts" and ta-daaa

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Removing_rusted_and_broken_fasteners

The sensei has shown you the secret of the keyboard in the search for knowledge...


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## rkmurphy

Wiki knows all


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## rkmurphy

Flywheel turns and sticks. Turn the other way and does the same thing...Any thoughts?

Getting compression and spark checked in the morning. Hope all goes well...wish me luck.


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## Brett

If you can't turn the flywheel all the way around,
It's going to be hard to do a compression test.


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## rkmurphy

Ok...put a little frustration into it and managed to free it up.  No sounds of anything breaking so that's good news.  Probably just gunked up or something.  Spun it a few revolutions and it seems fine.  Compression test on!


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## rkmurphy

> watch carefully "grasshopper"
> 
> google "how to loosen rusty bolts" and ta-daaa
> 
> http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Removing_rusted_and_broken_fasteners
> 
> The sensei has shown you the secret of the keyboard in the search for knowledge...


Have I been designated your apprentice? I would be honored...


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## Brett

Ahhh, grasshopper...

when you can take the lug nut from my hand...

;D

Grasshopper, I think that was the name of Capt. Bill Curtis' old Hewes.


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## rkmurphy

Ok so went to do the compression today (thanks Capt Jay from CapMel) and we got small reading but couldn't get anything good because one cylinder just kept sticking. I got home and figured...hey...as of now this thing is worthless...might as well just open it up. Took off the spark plug plate (sorry for incorrect terms...I'm making them up as I go) only to find a lovely little family of giant ants that had made a nice home by destroying the gasket and putting God knows what underneath. I then removed the plate covering the pistons which was in great condition but if I decide to go any further I will still replace. The pistons are now free! Must have been those d*mn ants and their home causing it to stick.

The pistons look ugly (not as bad as in the pictures...the shape of the pistons are not distorted...just a nice rusty coat). I rip the cord now and they puff out air! I'm guessing that's a sign that upon reassembly I will have at least some compression.

Here's pics:





































Nasty Gasket...d*mn ants...









Underside of the piston plate









So what do you all think? Junk? Or replace gaskets and try again?


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## Brett

You could put a new gasket in,
reinstall the head (Spark plug thingy),
and try to see if the compression is adequate.
Or you can part it out and use the cash to purchase another motor.
I'm only running a 5 hp motor, and that covers plenty of water
in an hours time. Inexpensive and gets you out there.
Beats standing on the bank or paddling long distance.


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## rkmurphy

Are pistons supposed to be that corroded, though? Just curious...


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## Brett

Can't tell from the pics,
what you call corrosion may be combustion deposits
with a layer of rust dust left from rotating the flywheel.
I do see some cylinder wall scoring,
can't tell how bad from the images.


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## Unclebob

The bottom pic of piston looked like it was damaged, but head proves otherwise. Cylinders have some scoring and rust, I wonder what piston rings look like, are they stuck? Pretty bad corrosion in water jackets.

I'd try cleaning what rust I could out of cylinders, replace gaskets, replace head, and try wet and dry compression tests. Maybe a soak with some Marvel for the rings..

It may need cylinder honing and new rings, but that motor doesn't look like Junk to me.


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## rkmurphy

> The bottom pic of piston looked like it was damaged, but head proves otherwise. Cylinders have some scoring and rust, I wonder what piston rings look like, are they stuck? Pretty bad corrosion in water jackets.
> 
> I'd try cleaning what rust I could out of cylinders, replace gaskets, replace head, and try wet and dry compression tests. Maybe a soak with some Marvel for the rings..
> 
> It may need cylinder honing and new rings, but that motor doesn't look like Junk to me.


Scoring on walls isn't bad. Pistons move trough cylinders just fine...not stuck at all since the removing of the uninvited occupants. What's a good way to remove rust from the cylinders?

Only cylinder that looks bad is the one in the bottom picture. I tried scraping it lightly with the tip of a flathead and filed off a some rust dust. Looks like it's definitely corroded but I dunno if it's that bad. No experience to tell :-/

What is Marvel? Could I get this from AutoZone or AAP?

If this thing works out and I keep it, I may just do all of the work myself. These are pretty simplistic. I used to work on my old car but not too much. Replaced clutch cylinders, etc. This looks WAY easier.

Brett:
I wouldn't be concerned with hp but I am going to be using the boat for things other than just fishing. Family outings, pulling a wakeboarder, etc. So I need as much power as I can get. Otherwise I'd pop a newer 9.9 or 15 on and soak it with some fish blood!


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## Brett

Welcome to the world of outboard repair.
Shop manuals and a few specialty tools are required.
Marvel Mystery oil is a lubricant, sold most everywhere.
If you're keeping the engine, you are going to learn a bunch.
No, it's not harder than a car, it's a 2 stroke, some different parts
and pieces but still relatively easy to work on.
What's the transom height on your carolina?


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## Unclebob

I know that the pistons are free, but I'm concerned about the Piston RINGS being stuck in the pistons. They're iron. They rust, and create a rusty ring in the cylinder, which is probably what you felt while trying to free the flywheel up. It doesn't take much..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piston_ring

Marvel Mystery Oil can be had about anywhere, it's just a lubricant really. If ya don't have any, motor oil will work.

I don't suppose you have a honing tool for the cylinders, so steel wool will knock some of that rust down, on the piston crown, too. When you get everything cleaned up and head back on, you may wanna leave the plugs out, squirt some of that Marvel (or oil) into the cylinders, and pull the starter rope a dozen or so times. 

Then try your compression test.

If it needs cylinder honing and rings, it's not a big deal, money wise.


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## rkmurphy

Excellent.  So a small cap-full of 2 stroke oil will do?  I'll leave the head gasket as is for now and just get a new other gasket.  Head gasket is fine just for a compression test...actually it looks like it may have been replaced right before it sat.  Other gasket was trash because of the ants.  What's involved in replacing piston rings?

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/EVINRUDE/1976/40654A%201976/CRANKSHAFT%20&%20PISTON/parts.html

Look at both part 2's in this link.  What does the .030 mean?  Which would I need?

Here's a small summary of things I know/am sure the motor will need:

Piston Rings (part #0385810 or #0385811) $75.04 
Spark plug plate gasket (part #0318962) $4.52 
HD Gasket (part #0307069) $19.00 
Fuel Pump (part #0385781) $85.10 
Ignition tune up kit (part #0172806) $28.71 
Carb Rebuild Kit (part #0385356) $22.99 
Starter Solenoid (part #0383622) $32.21 
Water Pump Housing (part #0319155) $30.00 
Water Pump Kit (part #0319155) $56.70 
Misc $50.00 
Tax $28.30 
Total $432.57 

Keep in mind these are are retail/OEM parts. Hopefully some I will be able to find wholesale at a junkyard/parts motor store...


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## Unclebob

> What does the .030 mean?


.030 Means 'Thirty Thousands' oversize. If you had the cylinders honed/bored by a machine shop, .030 may be how much they need to take out. You'd need bigger rings to fit the bigger 'HOLE' now..

Can you catch a fingernail in the scored grooves of the cylinder? Generally this is an indicator that the cylinders need work. If not, and the scratches are minor, you can just clean them up with a honing tool that you put in your drill, and go with stock rings.

That's assuming your compression tests are lousy, mind you. I wouldn't go buying anything yet, until you pull the compression tests. 

In fact, I bet when you get everything together, if you have spark, that motor will fire with a whiff of starting fluid..


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## rkmurphy

That's what I thought about the .030...I guess it's the same situation as with a bore on a car motor. I'll check the scoring tonight with the fingernail test.

I made a final decision, though. Here's my logic. The motor was free and anything I do to the top end isn't going to affect the bottom end/lower unit. So I'm going to take the whole thing apart and learn some things on my own. As of now...I'm not sure I wanna put money into it. But if I tear the whole thing down and find out EXACTLY what it needs I'll know what I want to do with it.

Worst case (if lower unit is good): I learn a lot about motors and will have the knowledge to do things on my own in the future on a motor that is actually worth more to me. Then I sell the lower unit for a couple hundred bucks.

Best case: I learn a lot about motors and will have the knowledge to do things on my own in the future on a motor that is actually worth more to me AND I take some time to fix it and have something that's like new for way less than I would have originally thought about spending.

Good logic? Or am I being too ambitious?


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## Brett

I learned by having to fix things I broke,
you get to learn by fixing something someone else broke.
Same difference.


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## rkmurphy

Do I have your permission sensei? Haha

Also, I ran a fingernail through the cylinders and the one is remarkably smooth. The other (the one that was sticking and the ugly one in the photos) is smooth except for the top where there was the rust shown in the photos. I found some honing bits at Sears for around $15. Good to use those? Is it basically just going to clean and polish the cylinders or will it actually bore them a little?

Next weekend I'll get a gasket and put it on and test the compression again before I get into buying honers and what-not.


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## Unclebob

> I found some honing bits at Sears for around $15.  Good to use those?


It really depends on how bad the rust pits (or scoring) is. And you need to be able to run the hone in and out of the whole cylinder to create a 'crosshatch' pattern. If the pitting is bad, and you use the honing tool, better grab a Snickers..

Have you cleaned the rust out of the cylinder yet? What you are feeling may just be what's left of some iron oxide residue. The actual pitting and scoring may not be that bad in the cylinder itself.

I like your logic though. What do you have to lose? This is a perfect opportunity to learn about outboards without having to suffer..


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## rkmurphy

I haven't cleaned the rust out yet...I may take a break from studying tomorrow and take some steel wool to it. Hopefully it'll come off easy and no honing required 

Should I tear apart the motor and check the crankshaft, bearings, etc.?


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## rkmurphy

Ok. Sorry about the inactivity over the passed couple of days. Exams were crazy.

I spoke with a VERY knowledgable and reliable source who suggested I sell the motor or part it out. He said they were good motors but for the conversions and work I was going to want/need to do, it wouldn't be cost effective.

I decided since I've already pulled the head I'd just part out the lower unit and starter (which is pretty rare). I pulled the lower unit today and it was pretty dirty inside. Lots of dirt and cob webs.

On a positive note...the gear oil looked great.

Does anyone know a good way to clean out the inside of a lower unit safely? I want to clean it really good inside and out for sale.


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## Brett

Leave the lower unit gearcase full of gear oil
to protect the internal parts from corrosion.
All other portions of the lower unit should be
safe to clean off with a stiff plastic bristle brush.


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## Unclebob

I wouldn't tear the lower unit apart for cleaning any internals. Secondly, I'd sooner buy one with old, black, stinky oil in it than fresh, clean oil. Old nasty oil would tell me that the lower unit is and has been watertight for some time..Fresh says it's been changed, and not run.

That's a red-flag to me. Just saying. Sounds like you drained it already though.

What do you have to lose by bolting it back together, pulling a compression check, and seeing if it will run? A complete running motor, even if it doesn't run good,  would be worth more than just parting it out I'd think..


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## rkmurphy

Internals arent what I'm worried about. And the gear oil wasn't changed...trust me. This guy's (the guy who GAVE it to me) father passed away a year ago and it had been sitting long before that. Also, the guy knew nothing about outboards or boats. On top of that...the oil didn't look new at all just no metal or anything. But it also wasn't black and nasty.

So I should refill it with gear lube? And after that would it be safe to hose out the non-oil-containing portion? And scrub with a plastic bristle or a toothbrush?


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## rkmurphy

> I wouldn't tear the lower unit apart for cleaning any internals. Secondly, I'd sooner buy one with old, black, stinky oil in it than fresh, clean oil. Old nasty oil would tell me that the lower unit is and has been watertight for some time..Fresh says it's been changed, and not run.
> 
> That's a red-flag to me. Just saying. Sounds like you drained it already though.
> 
> What do you have to lose by bolting it back together, pulling a compression check, and seeing if it will run? A complete running motor, even if it doesn't run good,  would be worth more than just parting it out I'd think..


From what my "source" told me, the motor fully functional and in decent shape it only worth about $500 tops. That's after I put about $500 into the ugly bastard to make it run. And most of that value comes from the rare starter and lower unit.


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## Brett

The lower unit is from the top of the gear case down to the bottom of the skeg.
From the top of the gearcase up to the powerhead is considered the exhaust housing.
Keep the gearcase lube filled.
Clean the exhaust housing with water and plastic brush.


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## snooknreds2

is the "source" who is telling you thing offering to buy the motor? I think you should bolt it together and try to run it...you have nothing to lose at this point


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## rkmurphy

No he's not offering. It's a guy who runs a HUGE outboard parts warehouse up north. Like Minnesota or something...I'd have to look again. There's just too many little things that would need to be fixed on it and I don't want to have to mess with it. On top of getting it running and everything, which will probably cost $400-600, I'd have to get a shorter driveshaft (or do a swapout...good luck finding...$100-200) and buy a tiller kit (about $150-200). And then it still needs new fasteners bolting on the motor cover and new rubber mounts for the thing that holds the tiller handle/steering controls ($50+). If it was the way I wanted it and just need motor work done, it would be a different story. This is much more fit for either a 20" transom boat or maybe a sailboat kicker.

Trying to get these parts sold, though. Everything is in great shape except the little insignificant things that I don't even want to begin to mess with. Could use the money toward another motor!


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## Brett

30 year old motor, two words

"metal fatigue"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fatigue


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## Frank_Sebastian

Sell your motor as a "for parts" motor. Don't expect a lot for it, but don't waste too much time cleaning and disassembling it. Put what you get into a running engine with good compression.

Frank_S


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## rkmurphy

It's for sale right now.  I've still been messing with it, though  ;D  it's too hard to resist curiousity.

I took off the fuel pump tonight and it looks brand new...hmmmmm...literally like it's never been used.  I also used some steel wool in the cylinders and got one silky smooth and the other is d*mn near close to it.  Oiled up the cylinders and turned the flywheel for a while to hydrate those thirsty rings and pistons.  One thing I did notice, however, was that an equal interval when turn the flywheel, I hear a squeak.  More like a creaky door kind of thing.  Any thoughts?

At this point I'm just trying to learn...  

Edit: Can someone tell me how to put the fuel pump assembly back together? I took it apart...  ?


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## marshman

im looking for a smiley....the one with the puzzled look and scratching his head...guess ill settle for this one....

:-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

im not trying to discourage....i just found this thread...i only read the first page, and then the last page...

that motor can probably be fixed up to run...BUT....as someone else said...they run rough, shaking and vibrating, spitting and sputtering..and thats in good running condition...it will not be anywhere near fuel efficient...nor will it perform like a 40 hp of today...

i think if it were me and free i probably would clean it up, try to get it running (i wouldnt spend ANY money on it) and throw it on a "play"boat at the camp just for shts and giggles...no way would i try to take off on a fishing trip with that thang, tho....

do as suggested...sell it, part it, whatever...EBAY...

i notice this thread and over in the other section youre getting pretty desperate for an engine....dont be desperate enuff to put money in this thang....like i mentioned on the other thread, there are good motors to be had for a few hundred dollars...

a j-16, i dont think you even need a 40...a 25 should suffice, and i think you need a long shaft engine for a j16...


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## rkmurphy

It's a 15" transom...so I need a short shaft. And that's pretty much what I'm doing. I'm going to try to not through any/very little money into it, get it to run, and sell it as a running motor. I, of course, need to refill the lower gear oil but that would be it. Hopefully, if I get it running, I can get $150-200 out of it.


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## Brett

> More like a creaky door kind of thing.  Any thoughts?


Flywheel rubbing on electronics,
dry bearing, piston ring chatter
intake reeds breathing
ghost in the machine... [smiley=1-mmm.gif]


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## rkmurphy

> More like a creaky door kind of thing.  Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Flywheel rubbing on electronics,
> dry bearing, piston ring chatter
> intake reeds breathing
> ghost in the machine... [smiley=1-mmm.gif]
Click to expand...

Dry bearing?  Explain sensei...

And it sounds like it's possibly coming from behind the carb...


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## Brett

Thanks for clarifying the location,
your reed valves are vibrating on the intake
cycle of the engine. They are located behind the carbs
and control fuel/air flow into the crankcase.

http://enginelibrary.com/engine/2strokengine/valvingandporting/valvingandporting2.aspx


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## rkmurphy

Is that a bad thing? Or is it just because everything's probably so dried up in there.


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## Brett

Means that they still work.


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## rkmurphy

Haha I guess that's a good thing. Thanks Brett. As usual.


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## B.Lee

As you turn the engine slowly, the crankcase pressure that would normally build to force new fuel/air mixture into the cylinder is leaking out of the closed reed valve, and causes a small metallic "whistle" sound. Like air from a ballon with the opening stretched.

This crankcase pressure is also what operates the diaphram in your fuel pump assy.

The engine turning at operating speed creates and releases this pressure quickly enough that the leak doesn't occur.


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## rkmurphy

Been fooling around with her a little more (the motor). Definitely has compression. The question remains, however, how much? Going to pick up a gauge from Sears today and check it tonight. Will let everyone know what the results are.

Status of spark is unknown. Any good ways to check without buying anything?

Been cleaning everything and checking everything out. Needs a new starter solenoid but starter definitely works (by-passed solenoid). It's a little stiff and doesn't quite spin all the way to the top. Maybe some silicon spray?

Still don't know what I'm going to do with it. It's still for sale. I figured out that with what it needs now, to get it like new it would take about $400+ (using OEM parts and hardware...some of the hardware needs to be replaced...nothing on the block). I could swap for a shorter driveshaft, modify the linkage and water tube, and have a short shaft. But that still doesn't change the fact that it's a '76.

Any idea on what kind of gear lube it takes? It's been sitting for a couple weeks now dry...figured I better get some in there before corrosion gets started...


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## Brett

To check spark...

Fuel line disconnected!
No fuel in engine!
Remove spark plug from block
reattach spark plug to plug wire
rest plug on engine block so spark gap is visible
rotate flywheel rapidly
watch for spark in spark gap
works best in low light conditions (darkness)

there is also a device called a spark gap tester

http://www.noswizard.com/product_desc.php?id=104

or you can make one yourself
which does basically the same thing
with an adjustable gap
to see how strong a spark the coil is producing.
plug wire attached to one bolt
ground wire from block to the other bolt
the bigger the gap the better the spark
A spark that bridges a 5 mm gap is good.











Any quality brand lower unit oil will do the job


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## iMacattack

Brett... how in the world did you find that one!  

We don't need a wikipedia... we need a Brettipedia!


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## rkmurphy

Thank you Brett. Gonna try the first method by the end of the night. Checked compression. Top cylinder was good at 125 psi. Bottom cylinder (one that had ants) had 110 psi. Is that too big of a difference? Something to be concerned about? Would honing fix? Or maybe just a little better steele wool cleaning.


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## Brett

only about a 10% difference
on that old a motor no big deal.


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## rkmurphy

Is it going to cause any noticable differences than a motor with even compression? Poor idling, etc.? I don't want to mislead anyone who may be interested in purchasing it.


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## Brett

30 year old motor...
anyone purchasing it shouldn't expect like new performance.

When selling state "As is - where is"
no delusion or confusion allowed


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