# Beavertail vs Hellsbay



## Bonefishbob1 (Jan 23, 2014)

I am looking to get a skinner boat as I currently have an Action Craft Bayrunner that is neither quiet nor dry. I was looking for a new boat but wondering if I really need to spend all that. I fish the Islamorada area and need enough boat to make the run to flamingo. Everyone seems to be fishing hellsbay these days and just wondering if they are superior? I saw a used beavertail osprey that looks as good with a lot of money left over for flies. 
Just looking for some input from people that have used both?


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## rsm13 (May 19, 2013)

over/under - 7 pages


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## ocx (Sep 28, 2013)

Over. Most from those with an internet background or simply an enormous bias.


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## Les_Lammers (Feb 17, 2007)

There are very few 'bad' boats. You need to wet test whatever boat you are considering and form your own opinion.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Hell's Bay , good luck finding one...

http://hellsbayboatworks.com/hb-preowned

Odds are 100-1 you'll get a BT or something else...

http://www.beavertailskiffs.com/?page_id=7

jus say'n.


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## mmccull5 (Nov 15, 2012)

fly boatworks. was super impressed after demoing the side console. a tiller model would be the way to go in my opinion.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

I ran a 1996 Actiincraft Bayrunner 16 with a C85 yamaha. The boat ran awesome and I was super impressed by the ride in chop. The scuppers were a pita and I never poled it so I have no idea how noisy it is but I liked the boat.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Way over [smiley=popcorn2.gif]


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Forgot to ask. 
New beavertail or the old beavertail?


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## Bonefishbob1 (Jan 23, 2014)

2008 Beavertail Osprey is what I will sitting in this weekend.


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## Bonefishbob1 (Jan 23, 2014)

I love my Actioncraft, its just not skinny enough and there is alot of hull slap when poling.


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## TidewateR (Nov 11, 2009)

love these threads


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Diggin the first post Bob [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

Well, 
It should been 
Beavertail vs Hellsbay vs East Cape.... That would be real interesting!


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## Bonefishbob1 (Jan 23, 2014)

*Re: Beavertail vs Hellsbay vs East Cape*

OK then add East Cape. I did fish one in the bahamas. It did not seem super skinny though?


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## Barbs_deep (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Beavertail vs Hellsbay vs East Cape*



> OK then add East Cape. I did fish one in the bahamas. It did not seem super skinny though?


Didn't seem super skinny ?!? You just bought yourself a one way ticket to 15 pages from the ECC guys.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Look guys, I don't mind a "civil arguement", even if it goes 100 pages. Just keep it civil please, I still haven't had enough time to "unbiasedly" clean up the other 2 threads. [smiley=watching-you.gif] [smiley=family-friendly.gif]


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Safe to say that most guys who can't afford the HB end up BT owners down the road.


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

Never heard anything bad "performance wise" about the BT (new or old). Wet test that thing and if it fits your needs... go for it.


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## gfish (Jan 14, 2009)

I think you should add Jon boat in there too....




(but I'm just trolling tho)


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## Bonefishbob1 (Jan 23, 2014)

You believe the hells bay is that much superior to beavertail or any of the others? I dont really care about resale because if boat great then i'd just repower when needed


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

I'm not familiar with the BTs, other than they high jacked HBs mold(s). 
Were the B2s Kevlar?


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## bw510 (Sep 1, 2011)

Anything skinnier than your action craft isn't going to be any drier and hull slap..well I don't seem to be able to pole any closer to fish in my buddies hells bay pro than my action craft


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

Bonefishbob,

My other two cents them I'm out. 
I fish and guide out of a 16 HB in biscayne bay, the keys and the glades. It's scary how shallow the boat will REALLY float. And, running across open water on those days most don't care to throw a fly. Tabs make all the difference in the world. 

Have fun with the purchase!!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

> I think you should add Jon boat in there too....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Might as well ;D According to the last pissing match a jon boat will do everything a HB can do. Plus hull slap doesn't affect sight fishing according to the experts on this forum. 

While we are at it the old b2 looks strikingly similar to a waterman. They must have incorporated some of the design elements and lines from the HB.


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## johnmauser (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm feeling 6 pages on this thread.

Seriously though.
Old Beavertail = Great Boat
New Beavertail = Great Boat
Hells Bay = Great Boat
East Cape = Great Boat
etc, etc.....

Go take a spin in each one that you're interested in...run it in chop, pole it, inspect the build quality, compare the prices...make a decision on what you want based on what you like best.

Everybody on here has a favorite, so you're gonna get a ton of different answers

Goodluck!


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

> Diggin the first post Bob  [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]



LMAO !!

back to you Bob............ 

if you cant find either then search into the Ibis. Egret etc.......... :-?


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## Johnster (Dec 14, 2011)

> I'm feeling 6 pages on this thread.
> 
> Seriously though.
> Old Beavertail = Great Boat
> ...



Possibly the most rational post I've ever seen on here


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

TRY BEFORE YOU BUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [smiley=1-doh.gif] [smiley=1-smack-myself.gif] [smiley=1-crazy-eyes.gif]


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## TC (Feb 15, 2011)

> over/under - 7 pages


Over. Unless someone starts yet another one that diverts this one. Amusing stuff.


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## FlyFisherK (Jan 27, 2012)

This will go probably close to 10 pages or an admin will just delete the whole thing because it got too far off track. But keep it going. Helps me stay awake in class.


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## cosgrcs (Mar 11, 2012)

One thing is for sure, a HB won't run the 4' chop like the BT will


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

> One thing is for sure, a HB won't run the 4' chop like the BT will


This is getting entertaining


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

What?

I ve never heard of a "4ft chop"???

There's not a poling skiff out there made to handle a "4 ft chop".

Except maybe a Hellsbay.....


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## Recidivists (May 9, 2011)

The '4' chop' was referencing one of the previous locked threads that was so amusing.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I think both boats are great but you may need more dead rise if you want to run to Flamingo. Some Action craft Flats Boats fit the bill and Hewes and Maverick (older) may work


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## Capt. Gregg McKee (Sep 28, 2007)

> Safe to say that most guys who can't afford the HB end up BT owners down the road.



That is the snobbiest thing I've ever read on this site and it also couldn't be further from the truth.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm officially changing my vote to the under bet. This thing will be locked before we get to page 7.


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## natasha1 (Jul 27, 2009)

I used to run my waterman through the surf panga style, but then again it was Gordon...


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## shiprock8 (Sep 23, 2013)

> I think both boats are great but you may need more dead rise if you want to run to Flamingo. Some Action craft Flats Boats fit the bill and Hewes and Maverick (older) may work


I have done the run to Flamingo many times in a 16 Whipray. I am sure a BT would have no problem either. Neither would be good in rough weather.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

> > Safe to say that most guys who can't afford the HB end up BT owners down the road.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the snobbiest thing I've ever read on this site and it also couldn't be further from the truth.



i think he means ankona........... 

---and theyre the only skiff that can run 4' chop wide-open ! , its true i read here. 

and i'll bet my microskiff sticker collection on it.........


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## TidewateR (Nov 11, 2009)

The only negative I've heard first hand is that some of the old BT's had (have?) problems with water somehow getting into the bow storage area. There's a member here whose boat had (has?) that issue. After every trip...boom...more water. That's all I got.


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

> > Safe to say that most guys who can't afford the HB end up BT owners down the road.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the snobbiest thing I've ever read on this site and it also couldn't be further from the truth.


Wasn't meant as an insult. You should be flattered to represent a company that is even considered an alternative to HB....


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

> over/under - 7 pages


Over


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

> > > Safe to say that most guys who can't afford the HB end up BT owners down the road.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


This site is starting sound more like flyhonkey each day.

Can't afford or chose to spend money elsewhere shouldn't matter.  Personally, I just skipped buying a 2009 Waterman in favor of a 2006 B2 (pics coming soon).  Had a deposit on the HB, but wanted to redo my 18 lake and bay boat with the money I'd save, and still have some left to go chase tarpon for a week in Belize this summer.  

So when ya see me cruising in my B2, you'll be thinking I only got it since I couldn't afford the real thing.  That's fine - I'll be thinking about the other 18 grand I saved.

My advice - test them in the conditions you fish.  HBs are superior boats, no arguments there.  If you can spend it, do it.  

If you are tinkerer like some of vets on these boards, find a used and do a restore.  I would to do a 16 whip myself.  Hey, I might have some extra money laying for that!


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## Beavertail (Jul 2, 2011)

Wow 3 pages in one day and only few good advice, tells you  at lot about the real acknowledge that people have about skiff on this forum  with the exception on some members.
BONEFISHBOB if you want some real info will be better  if you  PM people that have owned BT or HB .
I have never been on the Osprey but I did owned a BT Vengeance that I can tell you all about it ( bad ass skiff specially for running nasty waters) and know I own a PRO that will not ride like the Vengeance in nasty condition but can do some other thinks better then the BT. If you're interest send me a PM.
Good luck with your skiff hunting


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## cdaffin (Apr 4, 2012)

> Wow 3 pages in one day and only few good advice, tells you  at lot about the real acknowledge that people have about skiff on this forum  with the exception on some members.
> BONEFISHBOB if you want some real info will be better  if you  PM people that have owned BT or HB .
> I have never been on the Osprey but I did owned a BT Vengeance that I can tell you all about it ( bad ass skiff specially for running nasty waters) and know I own a PRO that will not ride like the Vengeance in nasty condition but can do some other thinks better then the BT. If you are interest send me a PM.
> Good luck with your skiff hunting


For someone criticizing others for their knowledge of skiffs you probably should have known and mentioned that the original BT models (B1, B2, BTX and Osprey) are completely different hulls than what the current owners of BT make now. Comparing your previous Vengeance with an Osprey is completely pointless.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Why don't you build a boat? Then you will have EXACTLY what you want, no compromise. There's a couple builds on here that I would love to own. Rosco, Oysterbreath, and Shalla Wata's boats are top notch, and I assure you while they are at the boat ramp launching their boats next to the Hells bays, Beavertails, East Capes, Egrets, Chittums, everyone at the ramp will be surrounding the custom boats and talking their ears off, and since their boats are custom they don't get judged by the boat they own.
Whole point to this rant, custom boats rule


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

what is with the HB mania lately? some people need to go fishing. My son and I have been fishing the crystal river area 4 of the last 5 weekends. bit of a drive but pretty fun stuff.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> what is with the HB mania lately?   some people need to go fishing.  My son and I have been fishing the crystal river area 4 of the last 5 weekends.  bit of a drive but pretty fun stuff.


Its winter, cold and windy.
Summertime this place is a ghost town cuz everyone's fishing.
Sunday is shaping up to be beautiful


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## gfish (Jan 14, 2009)

> Wow 3 pages in one day and only few good advice, tells you  at lot about the real acknowledge that people have about skiff on this forum  with the exception on some members.
> BONEFISHBOB if you want some real info will be better  if you  PM people that have owned BT or HB .
> I have never been on the Osprey but I did owned a BT Vengeance that I can tell you all about it ( bad ass skiff specially for running nasty waters) and know I own a PRO that will not ride like the Vengeance in nasty condition but can do some other thinks better then the BT. If you are interest send me a PM.
> Good luck with your skiff hunting


Wow your really acknowlegable! Thanks for the enlightenment...


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Weren't there very few Osprey's made?  I personally have never seen one (I am in Texas).

I can tell you that B2's go really fast once they appear for sale.   A 2007 in my area with low hours didn't last 3 days on the market with an asking price of $21k - the engine had less than 100 hours.  They seem to hold their value well.

Where HB has the advantage is the vaccum bagging and kevlar materials, plus their fit and finish.  If this is important to you, definitely take a closer look.  Personally, I love the F&F on the HB - it is second to none.  But for me, the finish on the B2 is good enough for me and I am happy with it.

You are comparing similar boats, but with different polish and attention to detail.  They will do nearly the same thing, maybe the HB can do 10% more since they are lighter, so it comes down what you want to spend.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

4 and counting


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## natasha1 (Jul 27, 2009)

what's flyhonkey?


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

> > what is with the HB mania lately?   some people need to go fishing.  My son and I have been fishing the crystal river area 4 of the last 5 weekends.  bit of a drive but pretty fun stuff.
> 
> 
> Its winter, cold and windy.
> ...


Nailed it. Can we all get an amen and a thread lock from Cut? Cold weather sux and I apologize to all if it makes me a little frisky at times


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Last sunday was really nice too, a little chilly, a few brief showers but an hour or two before sunset it was glassy slick. Got back to the ramp at 8pm.

We were going to go tomorrow but the wind looks more favorable sunday so sunday it is.



> > > what is with the HB mania lately?   some people need to go fishing.  My son and I have been fishing the crystal river area 4 of the last 5 weekends.  bit of a drive but pretty fun stuff.
> >
> >
> > Its winter, cold and windy.
> ...


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I agree that the weather sucks. At my house in GA it was 15 and heterosexual in Alabama it was 26. I am trying to finish my restoration but the boat is outside


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

permitchaser
Forum Member
Online


I Love Skinny Water

Posts: 318
Re: Beavertail vs Hellsbay
Reply #56 - Today at 2:04pm I agree that the weather sucks. At my house in GA it was 15 and here in Alabama it was 26. I am trying to finish my restoration but the boat is outside 
I fixed this. Sometimes spellchecks are funny


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

> I agree that the weather sucks. At my house in GA it was 15 and heterosexual in Alabama it was 26. I am trying to finish my restoration but the boat is outside


LOL


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

HB does not vacuum bag any of there hulls.


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## Palmetto3584 (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm pretty sure HB does vacuum bag all of their hulls. I think you are thinking of VARIS, which is different. HB does not use VARIS. Here is a picture of a vacuum bagged hull from HB's Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153550657580034&set=pb.247248940033.-2207520000.1390601831.&type=3&theater


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## TC (Feb 15, 2011)

> > Wow 3 pages in one day and only few good advice, tells you  at lot about the real acknowledge that people have about skiff on this forum  with the exception on some members.
> > BONEFISHBOB if you want some real info will be better  if you  PM people that have owned BT or HB .
> > I have never been on the Osprey but I did owned a BT Vengeance that I can tell you all about it ( bad ass skiff specially for running nasty waters) and know I own a PRO that will not ride like the Vengeance in nasty condition but can do some other thinks better then the BT. If you are interest send me a PM.
> > Good luck with your skiff hunting
> ...


Really? No reason to bust anyone here on their grammar. By the way, it's "you're", not "your".


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## Bonefishbob1 (Jan 23, 2014)

This is great help, I really appreciate the input. I am sitting an osprey in the morning and we'll see. I also spoke with aeon marine today. If I don't pull the trigger which I probably won't then I think I'll wait till the Miami boat show where I will be able to see them side by side


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

> This is great help, I really appreciate the input. I am sitting an osprey in the morning and we'll see. I also spoke with aeon marine today. If I don't pull the trigger which I probably won't then I think I'll wait till the Miami boat show where I will be able to see them side by side


Don't just see, fish them. Any maker worth their weight will cover a guided trip if you end up buying from them.


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## ocx (Sep 28, 2013)

If Hells Bay is such a great boat, superior production, excellent rigging and wonderful people running the enterprise, why did they go out of business? Must be more to that story.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

> If Hells Bay is such a great boat, superior production, excellent rigging and wonderful people running the enterprise, why did they do out of business? Must be more to that story.


I don't know the details, but believe that was around the time of the housing financial collapse. Doesn't matter now IMO, they are more popular, and expensive, than ever.


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## PLAYIN_HOOKY (Nov 12, 2013)

I have the 2009 BT Osprey , excellent boat !!!! It runs super skinny and rides the chop with no problems. I'm doing 35mph with 3guys full gear with my Etec-60. Extremely roomy for the three of us and we are all 6+ and over 200lbs. Btw I saved a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$ going with BT.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

> If Hells Bay is such a great boat, superior production, excellent rigging and wonderful people running the enterprise, why did they do out of business? Must be more to that story.


That was under different ownership. Any great company or Product can and will suffer from poor management and bad business decisions. 

The new owners bought the company out of BK, and have rebuilt the reputation as the bench mark for superior quality in the Technical poling skiff world.


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## ocx (Sep 28, 2013)

Well, if it happened once, it can happen again. Ask the guys that restore the old ones if they would have a new one.


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## Ginclear (Aug 11, 2013)

My son saw a Beavertail B2  ( splashed HB Waterman 18 )in Rockport in 2010 
at Mike's Fiberglass Repair with a split out transom .That should never happen.
By the way , it was white on white , so look out .So it looks like Beavertail has
no structural integrity as well as no moral integrity . What kind of loathsome 
bottom feeder does it take to use somebody's hull as a plug to make and sell 
skiffs with your name stuck on them ? All of the pre - Aeon Beavertails were
a version of a splashed Waterman 18 . Some without keyslot , some with 
sponsons removed and some as splashed with minor cosmetic changes . None 
of them built with the care and knowledge and materials that HB put into
them . So all you have left is the hull shape itself . But that shape is so well
designed and so carefully engineered that even the shoddy workmanship
of Beavertail couldn't keep the performance from shining through . ( except 
in draft ) . So every time I read about someone bragging about how well 
Their splashed HB performs , I just shake my head . Same reaction when I 
read about how much money they saved by buying a Beavertail instead of 
an HB .Beavertail saved a lot of time and money in research and development 
didn't they ? Beavertail . Perfect name . What sound does a beaver make with
his tail ?


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

> Well, if it happened once, it can happen again. Ask the guys that restore the old ones if they would have a new one.


That's an arbitrary point - even if it didn't happen, it could happen. Or it could happen 1 million times and never happen again. 

It obvious you don't like Hell's Bay - why waste your time with it? Move on. It's simple economics on why they hold their value - supply and demand. NADA guides are just that - a guide. The value of something is worth what someone will pay for it - plain and simple.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

> My son saw a Beavertail B2  ( splashed HB Waterman 18 )in Rockport in 2010
> at Mike's Fiberglass Repair with a split out transom .That should never happen.
> By the way , it was white on white , so look out .So it looks like Beavertail has
> no structural integrity as well as no moral integrity . What kind of loathsome
> ...


To each their own - but you do realize that hulls have been splashed and copied from the dawn of time, correct? I've fished out of both, and now own a B2, and have to say it compares on the water very well. Your post makes it sound like a cheap knockoff from Asia, which it is not.

I bought it because it works for me - not for the approval of others. What happened, happened - you can question moral integrity, but I'd have to say you are making it more of a religious debate than what it is.


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## ocx (Sep 28, 2013)

"That's an arbitrary point - even if it didn't happen, it could happen. Or it could happen 1 million times and never happen again."

Sorry, we disagree. It is not an arbitrary point, it speaks volumes about the people involved, then and now.

I have no bone to pick with HB, who cares what economic forces are at work, as long as they don't affect me.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

At THIS time, BOTH, HB & BT, are producing HIGH quality skiffs. What happened in the PAST is just that, the past. Towee, I RESPECTFULLY suggest that you take an ECONOMICS class and THEN you will quite possibly understand the differences between AFFECT and EFFECT!!!Re: your last statement. Good fishing to all!!!


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## ocx (Sep 28, 2013)

And if you were a PhD in Economics, your suggestion would have merit. Obviously, you are not, so I am comfortable with my usage of the word as a verb.

The past is the past but it teaches some of us valuable lessons.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

> And if you were a PhD in Economics, your suggestion would have merit. Obviously, you are not, so I am comfortable with my usage of the word adon't verb.
> 
> The past is the past but it teaches some of us valuable lessons.


You clearly have an agenda here. 5 post in and you are trolling. Assuming the new owners of HB will follow in the same footsteps because they retained the name shows your ignorance. Hope you don't own a GM because they also went bankrupt and we all know it could happen again. 
Just so you know any business can go bankrupt so you might just stop buying stuff all together. 

As for the original question the fit and finish as well as the lam schedules are different on the HB's. Both the old and new BT's are well built and very capable skiffs.


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## matt_baker_designs (Nov 27, 2012)

Gosh these posts get out of hand... [smiley=1-boxing1.gif]


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## ocx (Sep 28, 2013)

So I say something you don't like and that means I'm trolling. I disagree with your opinion and I have an agenda. There is a term for that kind of thinking but if I pointed it out, I would be accused of some other offense.


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