# A Tale of Two Rods...and one line



## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

So this kinda roles into the “What do you hate about fly fishing?“ thread, but this is something that I’m working through now. I have had Hardy Zephrus SWS 6wt for a while, and I relatively recently bought a CC Pro 1 7 wt. I tend to gravitate towards 1 piece rods and this one certainly has several features and characteristics that I like. 

I’d say my go to line is a SA Redfish Warm so I’ve thrown that line in respective weights and each rod performed adequately but there wasn’t a strong match. Somewhere along the way, I picked up and Air Flo 6wt Redfish taper and found that the Hardy loved it. I put the Hardy aside when I bought the CC 7. I thought it would perform better in the wind and it is actually lighter on the swing (and seemingly overall) than the Hardy. Either when I bought the CC or shortly after, I picked up the SA Amplitude infinity salt 7wt line for it. I fished it some and it just wasn’t doing what I needed.

So yesterday I was tinkering with different gear into a bit of a breeze from my dock. I had just spent some time with the CC and the SA infinitely line and was simply not impressed. I got to thinking about the Hardy, pulled out it with the Airflo line. I mentioned somewhere that I started marking lines at 30’ and 60’ and did so with this one. This was back to back so same conditions and the Hardy was consistently out performing the CC for distance both on forward and back cast. Like by 10-12’ out performing. Basically, I was lifting 30-32’ of line and shooting to 60-68’. The Hardy felt as good as ever, and really had me considering getting out of the 7 wt business. 

On a bit of a whim, I decided to put the Air Flo 6wt line/reel on the CC to “just see”. Now this is where it got interesting. Same conditions, a fresh beer, but I’ve prolly been casting steady for 45 minutes at this point (which isn’t unusual but I do tend to fade). Where my 60’ mark was at the reel or at the rod tip with the Hardy, it was at the rod tip or 10’ from the rod tip with the CC. I was able to pick up a few more feet of line as well, but 32’ seems a sweet spot. I should have said earlier, but this is the same bead chain clouser and a 10’ leader. 

So here I am happy that the CC is showing promise (need to fish this line combo now), but perplexed about the whole inconsistency of rod and line wts. What I suspect is this: the CC Pro is more of a true line weight design, the Hardy is a 6.5/7 wt in 6wt clothes, and the Air Flo is not close to a 6 wt line. I’m gonna try the 7wt SA line on the Hardy to see what happens there.


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Good experiment. You have and will learn lots. Let us hear how this comes out.


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

It is hard to know what you are getting when you buy an airflo line. I have an "8wt" airflo short head (blue/yellow) intermediate line that casts like shit on my 8wt rods........because it's 35' head weighs 340gr which is 11 wt territory. On the other hand I have a 7wt cold water intermediate line that is true to weight. Unfortunately their website does not provide useful information on what you are getting.


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## BrownDog (Jun 22, 2019)

Focus on the grain weights instead of line weights.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

BrownDog said:


> Focus on the grain weights instead of line weights.


And there lies the rub. I’m thinking published grain weights are akin to skiff manufacturer’s draft numbers...


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

After a few years of trying various fly line manufacturers, I have landed on SA fly lines for consistency, durability, and species specific selections that work well with the latest rod blank tech and design. Almost all of my experience is saltwater sight casting mostly in heavy Texas wind. So I have evolved to SA Amp Grand Slam (usually one rod with clear sink tip) on most of the rods from 7wt to 10wt and SA Infinity or bonefish on the 5wt and 6wt for less wind, line shy fish or less weight at the end of the day. The Helios 2 1 pc 9wt is the only non Gloomis rod in the rack. Most one pc rods will handle the SA GS well. One of the nine wt rods will be loaded with SA Infinity for a softer landing. This is a great excuse to have many fly rods, reels, or spare spools with various lines in your inventory.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Surffshr said:


> And there lies the rub. I’m thinking published grain weights are akin to skiff manufacturer’s draft numbers...


I wondered the same thing and weighed a number of my lines. Of a dozen lines from 3 manufactures I was getting grains weights as stated from the manufacture except for one line from a manufacture. The odd thing is other lines from that manufacture were spot on, it was just this one type of line in all weights I had 6-9wt that were off. It is one of the toughest parts for many fly anglers, especially ones new to the sport. Grain weight is a good standard but you can have two lines with very similar if not the same grain weight in two different tapers and they can feel different.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

@fishnogeek and I have had this discussion a few times at length and have spent a fair bit of time casting different lines on different rods of the same weight rating to see how they feel and perform. Both of us agree that each rod has a line that it really likes. For example, I tried a bunch of different 8wt lines on my Sage Maverick before I found "the" line (Mastery Bonefish)
- Orvis Pro All Arounder saltwater smooth
- SA Amplitude Grand Slam
-SA Amplitude Infinity Salt
-SA Mastery Bonefish
-Cortland 444SL


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## mpl1978 (Apr 14, 2016)

Interesting that you like the infinity line on the hardy, I just bough the 8wt hardy and the infinity salt was recommended- albeit in an 8, not +1 line


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I haven’t tried it yet on the Hardy.


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## mpl1978 (Apr 14, 2016)

Oops, read your thread wrong


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## aduca (Sep 8, 2012)

Line and Rod combos are key and can vary!! For what it is worth, I have the full lineup of Hardy Zephrus- 7-12 wts in 4 piece and also 8 & 10 in 1 piece. I have tried several different line combos and I have come to love the Airflo Gulf Redfish, BUT I underweight each Airflo Gulf Redfish to the rod by 1 wt. So 7wt line on my 8wt rods, etc. I have this setup on my 7-10wt rods and it has been the best pairing for those and my cast. IMO the Zephrus casts "true to grain weight" lines best, (which when comparing the line specs, underlining the Airflo RF accomplishes) and when you find the taper you like they will come alive.
11&12 I have the Cortland Tarpon Taper, 11 line on 11 rod, 12 on 12.
A little off-topic, but it took me a lot of trial and error....so I hope it is informative!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Good report. I'll relook at that later and try to take it all in. I'm currently fied testing a new line for Rio and I've talked to them about their line weights. Here's what you should know, most Rio, AirFlo and Wulff lines are 1 rod weight heavier in grain weight, according to affta, than what their stated rod weight is for that line. The only companies I know of that publishes their actual line weights are Cortland, SA and now Orvis (who now owns SA and their lines are really just SA lines now).

A rods ability to throw heavier lines or not or the need for a rod to keep within true to weight or even lighter lines depends on rod dynamics of butt section and mid section of the rod and the caster's needs and ability to throw certain distances, in various wind conditions with various fly resistances (weight of the fly and/or wind resistance).

The Zephyrus has a lot of lifting power in the butt section so it's able to handle heavier loading with casting and therefore heavier fly lines. The 1pc CC 7 is a faster rod and a little lighter than the Z in the butt and therefore tip cast better with a more true to weight line. Redfish lines in general have shorter more compact heads, tho SA lines are more truer to weight than Airflo (Rio's and Airflo being heavier in general). So.... The SA Amp Salt Infinity is a longer taper with a better presentation, but doesn't like heavy redfish flies. The rating of that line (aside from the level tip portion of the line) is about a 1/2 line weight heavier than true to weight, at the 1st 30ft of the head (which is where affta weight guidelines at measured at). However, there is another 20ft of weighted head at 50ft total length, so airing more of the head while false casting will load the rod deeper into the blank and with some rods, overload it, while the SA Redfish line's total grain weight in the head is all within the 30ft of head (while the Airflo is 1 rod weight over stated weight). So 3 completely different lines on 2 different rods


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

My rule of thumb is fast rods need +1 weight
I'm old school and never think about grain weight. Maybe on bullets but not fly line, nor would I know how to weigh fly line


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

well the SA Amplitude and the Hardy did not get along. Very well could be that those longer tapers and I don’t work.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

I fish +1 on all my mess 7 Wt and bigger. Oversized guides as well. K I S S. Keep it simple, stupid.


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