# Tipping Guides.........Serious Question



## HelthInsXpert

Over the years I have had the privilege if fishing with some great guides and several of them have become close friends. 

Some trips have been fantastic, and others have been complete busts. Either way I pretty much always tip 20% of the trip or a little more. 

However I always have this nagging thought. As someone who is self employed, I make commission on insurance products. But nobody pays me any extra when I do a great job. For most guides they are self employed and have the freedom to charge whatever they want for a day of fishing. When you sign up you know exactly what the cost will be. 

So my question is.............is a tip expected on TOP of that? Do you normally tip extra when fishing with a self-employed guide? This isn't a rant by any means, I'm really just curious what the general consensus is.

Cheers!


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## Backcountry 16

HelthInsXpert said:


> Over the years I have had the privilege if fishing with some great guides and several of them have become close friends.
> 
> Some trips have been fantastic, and others have been complete busts. Either way I pretty much always tip 20% of the trip or a little more.
> 
> However I always have this nagging thought. As someone who is self employed, I make commission on insurance products. But nobody pays me any extra when I do a great job. For most guides they are self employed and have the freedom to charge whatever they want for a day of fishing. When you sign up you know exactly what the cost will be.
> 
> So my question is.............is a tip expected on TOP of that? Do you normally tip extra when fishing with a self-employed guide? This isn't a rant by any means, I'm really just curious what the general consensus is.
> 
> Cheers!


Although I have only hired a guide once in Cozumel I did tip him I think 50 bucks. But if I went again I think I would also take a few buffs and maybe some fishing shirts for him as that stuff is crazy expensive down there. I would also hire him independently instead of thru the fly fishing outfitters so he receives all the money. Remember if you hook him up and rebook him in the future he will probably remember you and could take you to his honey hole.


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## SomaliPirate

The last time I used a guide was in Jackson. My wife and I were really happy with the service and at the end of the day I tipped him 20% of the trip price in cash. I would probably be ok with tipping a self employed guide as well if I was happy with the service. By service, I don't necessarily mean catching a lot of fish. We all know this game and you can't slay them every day. I'm talking about working hard for your angler, and being prompt, friendly and educational.


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## fjmaverick

Same its always been 20%

I guess it would be less if the guys I fished with showed up late or insisted in fishing in bad weather but I havnt had any trips that I didnt think they earned it


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## Backcountry 16

SomaliPirate said:


> The last time I used a guide was in Jackson. My wife and I were really happy with the service and at the end of the day I tipped him 20% of the trip price in cash. I would probably be ok with tipping a self employed guide as well if I was happy with the service. By service, I don't necessarily mean catching a lot of fish. We all know this game and you can't slay them every day. I'm talking about working hard for your angler, and being prompt, friendly and educational.


Yes we only caught one bone my wife caught it on a shrimp and i had a few shots at two permit on the fly but it was blowing 15 plus. He poled the panga most of the day and it was a tough one unfortunately we were on a cruise so I only had one day and mother.nature didn't cooperate.


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## MariettaMike

HelthInsXpert said:


> So my question is.............is a tip expected on TOP of that? Do you normally tip extra when fishing with a self-employed guide?


Yes
Yes


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## Smackdaddy53

This is a question that comes up very often and the answer is if you feel like the guide went above and beyond your expectations and busted his rump to show you a great time then tip accordingly. If fishing was tough but the guide still exhausted efforts to show you as good of an experience as possible then tip accordingly. If the guide just flat out sucked, showed up hung over, was lazy and acted like they had something better to do with their time other than showing you a good time then tip accordingly.


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## jimsmicro

This is just a huge reason that tipping is a stupid system to begin with. I imagine a guide is charging what he feels is a fair price for a solid day of fishing. The tip is supposed to be a bonus for going above and beyond, and if they do, you decide what that amount is, there's no set dollar value or percentage as far as I know. I also definitely agree with booking a guide outside of the fishing lodge if it gets him a few extra bucks. The resorts have enough money anyway.


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## dingoatemebaby

A tip is completely dependent upon how the Capt. treats the crew and how much effort he or she puts in. I'd say regardless of the fishing if the Capt. is busting ass and friendly and really trying to show you a good time, a tip is a really nice way of thanking them for their effort. Lets face it, not all guides are created equal and some are just there to get through the day. There is very little profit to be made as a guide, my Dad is 71 and still fishes two trips a day, seven days a week, from May-October, because going out any less you barely break even. As the old saying goes, "You can make a million dollars as a guide, you just have to start with two million."


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## stussing

I find it helpful when wanting to rebook them at a later date.


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## fishnpreacher

I don't fish with guides very often, but when I do, I always tip. Being self employed myself, I understand the taxes that guides are faced with. If I can tip a little "off the book" it helps him out. If a guide busts his butt and does his best to get me on fish, he has done his job and deserves what I give him. If he shows up late, unprepared, and doesn't give me his best, I still tip. But my tip reflects his efforts.


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## jay.bush1434

I hope the guide isn't pricing their trips on expecting tips. I think the whole culture of certain jobs getting tips and why others don't is stupid. I don't get tips for busting my butt at work. I get a little raise every year so maybe that is some justification for tipping but every guide I know has had to increase their prices over the years. I have usually added 5-10% but the guides I fish with are all friends of mine so we usually just fish together. They get bow time and I still get to learn from them. About half the time we are on my boat so they don't even have the expense of using their boat.


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## jmrodandgun

My guide friends don't like fishing with me because I make them give me $5 every time they catch a fish. If they refuse to pay-up-sucker I sit in one spot and pole around in circles for the rest of the day. I call it the Chittum shuffle.


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## yobata

jay.bush1434 said:


> I hope the guide isn't pricing their trips on expecting tips. I think the whole culture of certain jobs getting tips and why others don't is stupid. I don't get tips for busting my butt at work. I get a little raise every year so maybe that is some justification for tipping but every guide I know has had to increase their prices over the years. I have usually added 5-10% but the guides I fish with are all friends of mine so we usually just fish together. They get bow time and I still get to learn from them. About half the time we are on my boat so they don't even have the expense of using their boat.


Last year I went to Seattle and talked with many waiters and bartenders. They dont have tips anymore, the "gratuity" is built into the price of the meal/drinks. It makes their paychecks much more stable at the end of the week. And most of them liked the new system. I also liked it because after having 2-18 drinks I didn't have to do any math...


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## Smackdaddy53

Well I guess I’m going to charge more since people think tips are a thing of the past.


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## mro

Personally like the lodge deals that I use.
All inclusive. But I still tip. The few times I've gone direct I pay for the entire trip in cash too.

Here's a tip for tippers. (Not related to fishing guides) A few times a year I used to treat family to dinner at a high end restaurant. Place is always busy. When being led to our table I'd stop the maître d and pass him $50 and point out my mom/dad/wife or who ever I'd brought to dinner and ask him to tell the waitress that I tip well when my guests are taken care of. Even though they had good service to start with it becomes noticeably better and added to MY enjoyment of spending time with significant others.


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## jmrodandgun

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Well I guess I’m going to charge more since people think tips are a thing of the past.


Nah. It's just awkward for some people. It can be a weird moment at the end of a day.


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## mro

jmrodandgun said:


> My guide friends don't like fishing with me because I make them give me $5 every time they catch a fish. If they refuse to pay-up-sucker I sit in one spot and pole around in circles for the rest of the day. I call it the Chittum shuffle.


^^^^^^^^
Cheep date! 
So we should tip you like we did to cows when we were kids?


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## Ken T

[QUOTE=" I would also hire him independently instead of thru the fly fishing outfitters so he receives all the money. 

I thought I might shed some light on the quote above and the topic in general. First off I have been a Fly Fishing outfitter for 2 decades and have had relationships with many guides over that time period. Currently my wife and I book trips for 7 guides who are exclusive to our operation plus and additional 8 or so that are affiliated with us. We are very particular about the quality of the people who service our customers and our guides normally stay with us for the entire period that they guide.

For full time guides that have been with an outfitter for more that a year or two contacting them outside the outfitter may put them in an awkward situation. The outfitter guide relationship allows guides to concentrate on their work and living the lifestyle while the outfitter does everything else. This includes all bookings and scheduling. It includes all Advertising. Print, Social Media, Google Ads and costs per click. It also includes the years slate of trade shows, hotel rooms etc. Most guides do not have the ability to do this nor do they have the budget. 

With a reputable outfitter, guides are more than willing to give back a percentage of the daily trip fee to the outfitter. With my service our guides always try to steer clients back to our office for scheduling. In the rare event that they take themselves off the calendar for a trip of self origin they still contribute the outfitter cut back. They know that the outfitters incurs large yearly expenses to keep the calendar filled and they need to work every day of the season.

I am not sure of the origin of tipping guides but when traveling I always give extra when the guide puts his heart and sweat into the day. Good guides are always booked for a reason, a nice tip may keep your spot on his calendar open. I do however agree that a day that turns out bad due to a guide that is not personable does not warrant much of a tip.

I also want to offer some additional insight into our world. First guide fees. In many areas the local amount of guides and outfitters are what sets the daily fee range. I guide in 2 completely different regions in the course of a year. Both of these areas have fisheries that are top rate but completely different. They do bear similarities in the cost of operation.

My Trout fishing operation is in one of the top trout fishing areas in the world and has a huge visitor base specifically for fly fishing each year. We are the most expensive outfitter in the area and have always charged more that the others.

Our fees are based on the high daily expense we incur to offer a quality experience to our customers. Each day our guides have to cover gas, soft drinks, ice, shuttle fees and liability insurance. Additionally our guides are licensed in NY, PA and with the National Park Service. Each with additional expense. In total the hidden costs to the guide are around or just over $100.00 per trip. Guides appreciate their tips since they make their pay whole each day.

In Florida the situation is similar in terms of expense. The expenses just occur from different factors. 

Overall when you look at what we do it is a service business and a non essential one at that. The men and women that choose this lifestyle do it because they love to fish, love to teach and love to show their home waters to other anglers. None have a chance at getting rich but many can stay at it if they set their fees correctly and the tip money flows.

enough said


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## jmrodandgun

mro said:


> So we should tip you like we did to cows when we were kids?


You can't fool me. I use to work on a dairy farm. I know better than to believe cow tipping is real.


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## mro

nothing like hijacking a thread 

So $5 per fish, 
I accept and Ill even tip.
So if you put me on a 50 fish day that would be $250? 

Meet you at the ramp, north/west side of 
Chokoloskee


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## Lovegettingsnooked

All captains I know do not expect tips but appreciate them. No right or wrong answer here IMO. There are so many occupations out there deserving of tips that never get any. I always like to tip someone deserving.


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## State fish rob

Never been on a guided trip . I would imagine personality would be the biggest selling point


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## DuckNut

HelthInsXpert said:


> But nobody pays me any extra when I do a great job.


Have you ever tipped the gas station attendant? Neither have I. Have you ever tipped the cashier at the grocery store? Ditto.

The reason you have never been tipped is because the guide provides a personal service and you provide a transaction. The guides pay is also very transparent and yours is so muddy nobody can find out exactly what you get paid.

Back on topic, I think the answer to your question has been answered so not much I can add.


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## Ken T

State fish rob said:


> Never been on a guided trip . I would imagine personality would be the biggest selling point


Personality is huge since not many people can spend 8 hours on a small skiff or drift boat with someone who is not personable. 

The real value in the guide however is in their knowledge of the area and the fishery, their ability to teach and communicate, their time management, their risk management, and the overall service from the booking stage right through to the time you hit the water.

The guides that hit most of these factors have loyal followings.

If you ever decide to book a guided trip do the research. Guides with great reputations are lurking in just about every top rate fishery and they are worth the wait and the $$$$.


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## Smackdaddy53

Ken T said:


> Personality is huge since not many people can spend 8 hours on a small skiff or drift boat with someone who is not personable.
> 
> The real value in the guide however is in their knowledge of the area and the fishery, their ability to teach and communicate, their time management, their risk management, and the overall service from the booking stage right through to the time you hit the water.
> 
> The guides that hit most of these factors have loyal followings.
> 
> If you ever decide to book a guided trip do the research. Guides with great reputations are lurking in just about every top rate fishery and they are worth the wait and the $$$$.


8 hours?!? Good luck with that down here, most “guides” call a half day 4 hours and a full day 6 hours. It’s pretty ridiculous. Lots if guides call it a day once their clients catch a limit of trout no matter how early it is.


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## Drifter

I think its interesting as I agree sometimes at the end of the day it makes for awkwardness especially for people that aren't forward. Also I don't really understand how a guide doesn't do well getting 600 bones a day because they own a skiff and know the spots? HOW IS THAT NOT MAKING MONEY? Most people make 200 bucks a day or less working in a grocery store of mowing lawns. Those direct hire guides are still making 400 after expenses. I hire guides now and then and I really just decide how good of a time I had. I don't feel obligated to tip.


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## Copahee Hound

Drifter said:


> I think its interesting as I agree sometimes at the end of the day it makes for awkwardness especially for people that aren't forward. Also I don't really understand how a guide doesn't do well getting 600 bones a day because they own a skiff and know the spots? HOW IS THAT NOT MAKING MONEY? Most people make 200 bucks a day or less working in a grocery store of mowing lawns. Those direct hire guides are still making 400 after expenses. I hire guides now and then and I really just decide how good of a time I had. I don't feel obligated to tip.


I’m not a guide, just a weekender, but I do know that MOST guides in my area have to make payments on: boat(40k+), truck to haul boat (or marina slip), insurance on both, gas, maintenance, bait(shrimp and fiddlers add up), tackle for for the day, replace broken equipment from the previous day, and when the day is done, flush the engine and wash boat and equipment. I’d be willing to bet they would be happy at 33% profit.

And I forgot about....Everyone’s favorite....TAXES!


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## Drifter

I knew that was coming. I would just say I run a business with over 25 people working, Im familiar with how it works. I just bought a boat, I did not finance but if I did it would have cost $210 bucks a month. I have used 5 gallons a day the last 11 days I fished. So we can go 20 bucks on fuel. I bring my own fly rods and use my own flys about 30 percent but rarely use and LOSE one of theirs. Let say thats 20 bucks so that like 4x what I lose. Im actually bored of counting it out. But its not like theres a lot of hidden costs, I know theres a license and such as well. 

My job is literally to divide millions of dollars into estimated costs then actually do whatever that action is and accrue a profit of a few percent off that cost. I own diesel impact hammers, you know what you do with those when you don't pound bridge pile? Nothing they rust and rot and grass grows over them. You know what you do with a truck you haul your boat with? Use it like an everyday vehicle like 97 percent of America has. Taking people fishing on a skiff is not that mysterious. If you go out deep sea they charge you more like 800. All I am saying is if you work your ass off and work construction as an employee you make the same as a guide and you don't get tips. Also because guides are self employed fisherman they get to deduct all the stuff you can't, minimizing their tax liability as long as they keep cool stuff around!


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## yobata

Start tipping your proctologist


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## State fish rob

Copahee Hound said:


> I’m not a guide, just a weekender, but I do know that MOST guides in my area have to make payments on: boat(40k+), truck to haul boat (or marina slip), insurance on both, gas, maintenance, bait(shrimp and fiddlers add up), tackle for for the day, replace broken equipment from the previous day, and when the day is done, flush the engine and wash boat and equipment. I’d be willing to bet they would be happy at 33% profit.
> 
> And I forgot about....Everyone’s favorite....TAXES!


I pay for the same w/ no chance of income nor tip . X3. And ?


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## jmrodandgun

Drifter said:


> Also because guides are self employed fisherman they get to deduct all the stuff you can't


You know it's not that simple. They also also pay for a bunch of shit you don't. Everything is more expensive when you're self employed.


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## jmrodandgun

Drifter said:


> Also I don't really understand how a guide doesn't do well getting 600 bones a day because they own a skiff and know the spots? HOW IS THAT NOT MAKING MONEY?


$600/day will just barely get it done. Taxes and insurance for self employed people are very very high.

Even at 200 days/year that's only $120,000 before you run a p&l. Health insurance and liability insurance will cost you cost you $25,000 right out of the gate. You haven't even pumped a gallon of fuel into your truck yet or filled out a 1040 and you're already down 11%. A thousand gallons of boat fuel is going to cost another $3,000. Should I keep going?

I almost forgot, the fed is going to ding you for like 12% on the first $92,000 you bring home.


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## TheAdamsProject

Tip or not.. that is your call, if you think they go above and beyond, so be it, if not, ok. I have seen it all, but would say 98% of clients have tipped when I was hosting/booking trips for the travel company. Some tipped more than others and some brought hard to get items and tipped that way. They would bring knives or gun tools for birdboys or even gifts for their families that are very hard to get in Central/South America. The luxury good tax is nuts. Little things for the guide's kids or something they can give their wife goes a long way too. In fishing areas some would leave a nice pair of glasses or even a rod at times. 

All markets are different and some require more work than others. A few of my guide buddies are freshwater guys and put out shiners and sit at the console and drive the remote trolling motor but they still have to work with clients, fish in all conditions and produce. Just because I choose to only fish fly or light tackle artificial and do all our fishing with me pushing is my choice and don't feel I deserve any more of a tip than someone anchored with bait. We are all there to provide a service and memories, how we choose to do that is on us. Just like some days the fish eat every fly and others you cant buy a bite. You cant bank on tips, that is like banking on a Christmas bonus or tax return. I certainly don't guide for the money...Just my .02


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## Backcountry 16

Everyone cuts their own deal in life so you can't really cry about your job as you are the one who chose it. And if you don't like it make a change but don't cry about it. And before someone gets on here my occupation is actually tech i work in 150 degree attics in August with 60 plus hour weeks but I don't complain to my customers because it's my choice to do that trade. It pays really good or I would have changed a long time ago.


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## Drifter

jmrodandgun said:


> $600/day will just barely get it done. Taxes and insurance for self employed people are very very high.
> 
> Even at 200 days/year that's only $120,000 before you run a p&l. Health insurance and liability insurance will cost you cost you $25,000 right out of the gate. You haven't even pumped a gallon of fuel into your truck yet or filled out a 1040 and you're already down 11%. A thousand gallons of boat fuel is going to cost another $3,000. Should I keep going?
> 
> I almost forgot, the fed is going to ding you for like 12% on the first $92,000 you bring home.


You can continue. This is standard “my business makes no money” language. You c an exaggerate everything you want but everyone is paying taxes. Health insurance is not a necessity for your guiding business, not anymore than any other person who gets it taken out of their income. 15 gallons a day inshore flyfishig on a skiff is exactly twice what every guide that takes me out and what it takes me to go out. And your payin a buck a gallon more than me almost!

I can get you a liability and health insurance quote for more like 10 grand probably. I own 4 businesses the only one that costs more than 25 grand for liability does 10 million a year. And it cost me like 36. 

I never said they are getting rich. But this Guides don’t really make anything is crap. Like what gas station clerk gets paid to put gas in their car to go to work? Your still talking 5-10 bucks a day really. The average person is making 30-40 percent less than a guide and they aren’t going out on the ocean and doing something engaging.


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## SomaliPirate

Everybody wants to get tips in the guiding business. And here all I do as a cop is accept a few tips here and there and they want to put me in federal prison. Sheesh.


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## Drifter

Also as far as the taxes are concerned, a guide will be able to deduct his truck, a home office, his cell phone, new rods, flys, food expenses “for clients”. All fuel in his truck basically. So yeah I have been self employed my entire life, which included hanging drywall for two years at 200 bucks a day. You can run the math on that if you want. I bet a smart guide pays similar taxes to the average taxpayer. Which is surprisingly low.


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## Drifter

jmrodandgun said:


> $600/day will just barely get it done. Taxes and insurance for self employed people are very very high.
> 
> Even at 200 days/year that's only $120,000 before you run a p&l. Health insurance and liability insurance will cost you cost you $25,000 right out of the gate. You haven't even pumped a gallon of fuel into your truck yet or filled out a 1040 and you're already down 11%. A thousand gallons of boat fuel is going to cost another $3,000. Should I keep going?
> 
> I almost forgot, the fed is going to ding you for like 12% on the first $92,000 you bring home.


Ha I misread your fuel part your probably spot on there.


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## Smackdaddy53

sjrobin said:


> I tip based on the amount of work that goes in to whatever the service, and I expect tips after poling a skiff most of the day hunting for fish in shallow water. That skill set is unique and requires specialized equipment, experience, knowledge, and hard work for consistency. Many of my days start before daylight driving to remote locations and finish late at night with skiff clean up/maintenance. It is rare, but no tips usually result in the client going to the bottom of the call list if not off the list.


You are spot on! Everyone thinks it’s a cake walk and guides get rich. That’s very humorous.


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## Drifter

jmrodandgun said:


> You know it's not that simple. They also also pay for a bunch of shit you don't. Everything is more expensive when you're self employed.


Such as? I’ve always been self employed so I am interested.


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## Ken T

Drifter said:


> But its not like theres a lot of hidden costs, I know theres a license and such as well.
> 
> If only that were true.
> 
> Everyone here has done a pretty good job of outlining a guides expenses and income but think again about no hidden expenses.
> If you are a full time guide with no additional outside income or a big trust fund here are some other surprises.
> 
> In addition to everything outlined, there is the cost of acquiring new customers. To survive you will need a plan to find at least 200 trips per year to pay your bills. These include website development and optimization. Cost per click google ads. (several dollars per click for competitive markets). Facebook boosts and ads, Instagram promotions, Print ads, etc. There is also the costs involved in trade shows, travel, hotels. Fees to travel sites, email marketing etc. I could probably go on and on. None of these things are cheap. If you are computer savvy and do your own work, expect to spend 14 to 16 hours a week minimum just to stay relevant.
> 
> There are also many added expenses that are regional which the public would never know about. An example - In my Trout Guiding in the Upper Delaware we are also regulated by National Park / Dept. of the Interior. More yearly fees, more paperwork, additional insurance for the guiding and a commercial auto insurance policy since we transport clients within park boundaries.
> 
> After all of this you can add on the life costs that all self employed Americans face. That's the taxes, homes, families, health insurance etc.
> 
> Lastly once you succeed in figuring out how to make all of this happen you become well known. When this happens every club, group and organization will solicit free trips, flies, merchandise etc. from you for their events. You will have to give. This is pretty easy for my wife and I since there are several causes centered around fly fishing that we feel strongly about.


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## Drifter

I guess no one could ever understand the economics of being a guide without being one! Understood. Sounds like the end of every other debate! I ain’t a woman, I’m white, and I don’t live in a border state I couldn’t possibly get it. 

Curious my employees that make half that a day have their own boats, and trucks and about 5 rods each. But that’s different cuz its for fun!


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## Smackdaddy53

Drifter if you do so well working for your self and think guiding is not that hard and is all glamour then why don’t you get a license and get after it so you can get rich quick just running trips part time? Nothing to it, you’d get to go fishing all the time, the weather always cooperates, the days are short, every person that sets foot on your boat knows what they are doing and shows up on time. Hell, you would probably make enough money in tips to hire a guy to clean and maintain your boat, gear and vehicle so you can kick back and drink beer all afternoon after a “full day” 6 hour trip...Nothing to it!
Not bashing you, just finding some of these posts very funny. I’m glad you do well at what you do, you seem like a very smart and motivated individual. I just got my OUPV and haven’t had the first paying client but I’m already going to be rich off of the income tax return I’ll be getting in February...I might be able to get that fancy 4 stroke, quiver of fly rods and a fish finder that really finds the fish for me! Funny stuff!
I had a guy here at work tell me that guiding isn’t a job. I guess he thinks it’s all popping corks and live shrimp. I work more before, during and after a single fishing trip than I do in 8 days out here at my day job and that’s a fact. I love it so I don’t find it an issue.


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## SomaliPirate

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Drifter if you do so well working for your self and think guiding is not that hard and is all glamour then why don’t you get a license and get after it so you can get rich quick just running trips part time? Nothing to it, you’d get to go fishing all the time, the weather always cooperates, the days are short, every person that sets foot on your boat knows what they are doing and shows up on time. Hell, you would probably make enough money in tips to hire a guy to clean and maintain your boat, gear and vehicle so you can kick back and drink beer all afternoon after a “full day” 6 hour trip...Nothing to it!
> Not bashing you, just finding some of these posts very funny. I’m glad you do well at what you do, you seem like a very smart and motivated individual. I just got my OUPV and haven’t had the first paying client but I’m already going to be rich off of the income tax return I’ll be getting in February...I might be able to get that fancy 4 stroke, quiver of fly rods and a fish finder that really finds the fish for me! Funny stuff!
> I had a guy here at work tell me that guiding isn’t a job. I guess he thinks it’s all popping corks and live shrimp. I work more before, during and after a single fishing trip than I do in 8 days out here at my day job and that’s a fact. I love it so I don’t find it an issue.


If you get a four stroke, I'm petitioning admin to have you banned from these forums.


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## Drifter

1. Never said it wasn’t a job.

2. Never said it wasn’t work.

3. Explicitly said you weren’t going to get rich in one of my posts.

4. Never said anything about how miserable guides seem to think it is to deal with clients.

5. I build bridges basically on the Canadian border, my employees work in -40 weather day after day some parts of the year. I also never said it’s always a cakewalk.

The context of this thread is about tipping. Can you name another “trade” that gets paid $25 bucks an hour and gets tips? There’s a few things out there but surely not $600+ a day and gets 100$ plus tips AAANNNDDD incessantly talks about how hard it is while joe blow over here is removing shingles from your house for 14 an hour.

I intend on being a guide in my older years after I retire. But your right, with 25 employees I probably don’t understand there’s a lot going on behind the scenes.


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## Megalops

Smack, I never knew you were a guide. I’ll hit you up if I ever make it to Tejas, as long as you don’t have a 4 stroke.

I’ve been out on quite a few guided trips and I tend to tip heavy. There is so much more to being a great guide - the good ones always make it look easy.


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## shb

What if your guide is a flaming ashole, but in a funny way,

and the world's worst coach?

But, he's a fishy mother trucker. 


He's always in fish, and every time I jump one, I just want to turn around, and flip him off. 

See jackass, I'm doing something right!


Do you still tip that guy?


----------



## jmrodandgun

Drifter said:


> Curious my employees that make half that a day have their own boats, and trucks and about 5 rods each. But that’s different cuz its for fun!


I sure hope your $10m business has a good CPA


----------



## Smackdaddy53

shb said:


> What if your guide is a flaming ashole, but in a funny way,
> 
> and the world's worst coach?
> 
> But, he's a fishy mother trucker.
> 
> 
> He's always in fish, and every time I jump one, I just want to turn around, and flip him off.
> 
> See jackass, I'm doing something right!
> 
> 
> Do you still tip that guy?


I would hope you’d be able to handle some bantz and still tip well.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Megalops said:


> Smack, I never knew you were a guide. I’ll hit you up if I ever make it to Tejas, as long as you don’t have a 4 stroke.
> 
> I’ve been out on quite a few guided trips and I tend to tip heavy. There is so much more to being a great guide - the good ones always make it look easy.


Come on down! We can sight cast, drift, pole, wade for some monster trout and run over some sand bars a mullet can barely swim over.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

SomaliPirate said:


> If you get a four stroke, I'm petitioning admin to have you banned from these forums.


Naa I have to burn up my 2 smoke and it’s twin on the motor stand before I even consider that noise!


----------



## Drifter

jmrodandgun said:


> I sure hope your $10m business has a good CPA


Ha it’s my wife. I wasn’t trying to brag. Just the idea that I couldn’t understand the structure of a guiding business is ridiculous. But that’s where it always goes.


----------



## mro

Wow, are we talking politics here?
If you want to tip a service provider cool, if not... that's the way it is. Last I heard it's not the law or a mandatory thing.

On the flip side of that when I go to a restaurant and a "gratuity" is added to the check, when I pay I tell em if I had a good meal or service but inform them that I won't be back as I like to decide when and how much to tip. I'd not book a guide that did the same as the restaurant.


----------



## mro

_What if your guide is a flaming ashole, but in a funny way,_

OK smack,
quite talking about me behind my back


----------



## Drifter

shb said:


> What if your guide is a flaming ashole, but in a funny way,
> 
> and the world's worst coach?
> 
> But, he's a fishy mother trucker.
> 
> 
> He's always in fish, and every time I jump one, I just want to turn around, and flip him off.
> 
> See jackass, I'm doing something right!
> 
> 
> Do you still tip that guy?


I know that guy! Took me out a couple days in Empire!


----------



## Backcountry 16

SomaliPirate said:


> If you get a four stroke, I'm petitioning admin to have you banned from these forums.


He ain't getting no stinkin 4 stroke you know better than that. That's like saying Rick 88 will give you the last word. Jokes man jokes


----------



## Backcountry 16

Where are guides getting 600 a day it's not in swfl I know for a fact my buddy is a guide and he doesn't get that nor does another buddy of mine that's been guiding for 20 years.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Backcountry 16 said:


> Where are guides getting 600 a day it's not in swfl I know for a fact my buddy is a guide and he doesn't get that nor does another buddy of mine that's been guiding for 20 years.


Because there are too many guides.


----------



## noeettica

I have a trip booked with a guide ...

i expect to tip 35% if he is _*"all That" ...*_


----------



## Backcountry 16

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Because there are too many guides.


Bingo supply outweighs the demand.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Backcountry 16 said:


> Bingo supply outweighs the demand.


Down here guides are a dime a dozen as well. A majority of them are after a quick limit of trout and head back in to grab another group no matter how fast that limit is caught. They are charging less and run as many trips in a day as they can. The ones that are running 200 plus trips a year chunking popping corks and shrimp, live croaker or any other bait for meat hauls taking googans that like piles of fish photos for their Facebook page will charge much less than your specialty guides. The really good veteran guides that target trophy trout wading with lures for 8 solid hours and are consistently catching and releasing 8 pound plus trout or the sight casting guides that have regular clients that don’t look at guided trips like they are at the grocery store with a hand full of coupons from the newspaper are the guys that can charge a premium and get that plus tips all day every day. The good trophy trout guides are booked up 6-8 months in advance most of the time especially for winter wading trips for a personal best speckled trout.


----------



## Backcountry 16

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Down here guides are a dime a dozen as well. A majority of them are after a quick limit of trout and head back in to grab another group no matter how fast that limit is caught. They are charging less and run as many trips in a day as they can. The ones that are running 200 plus trips a year chunking popping corks and shrimp, live croaker or any other bait for meat hauls taking googans that like piles of fish photos for their Facebook page will charge much less than your specialty guides. The really good veteran guides that target trophy trout wading with lures for 8 solid hours and are consistently catching and releasing 8 pound plus trout or the sight casting guides that have regular clients that don’t look at guided trips like they are at the grocery store with a hand full of coupons from the newspaper are the guys that can charge a premium and get that plus tips all day every day. The good trophy trout guides are booked up 6-8 months in advance most of the time especially for winter wading trips for a personal best speckled trout.


I would rather try to catch a gator trout sight fishing than 100 18 inchers. But that's just me and I would never take more than I would be willing to clean and eat waste not want not. I fish outside the ted tide affected mandatory release zone in Swfl for snook and redfish but still release them back to the water I love eating both but want my grandkids to be able to catch them in the future.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Backcountry 16 said:


> I would rather try to catch a gator trout sight fishing than 100 18 inchers. But that's just me and I would never take more than I would be willing to clean and eat waste not want not. I fish outside the ted tide affected mandatory release zone in Swfl for snook and redfish but still release them back to the water I love eating both but want my grandkids to be able to catch them in the future.


The big girls should always be released, I see no reason to keep fish every trip like a lot of people do.


----------



## Guest

I don't have a problem tipping guides well who are helpful, work hard and have a good disposition. It's the arrogant, egotistical prima donnas who I can't handle. I've had a couple of those in the past few years. Don't care if they move me to the bottom of the line or remove me entirely. I won't be calling them again anyway.

Most guides I've ever met are extremely hardworking and knowledgable. They work hard to put you on the fish. But one thing that gets me is the guys who know the conditions are bad and still take your money for what essentially becomes a $700 boat ride. They say I'm buying their time. Not so. I'm buying their expertise. And I count on that expertise to know whether the conditions are conducive to catching fish or if we'll be wasting our time - and my money.

If those guys had integrity, they'd call in the morning and tell you the truth about the prospect of catching fish under the current conditions. Then, they could offer to take you out for a half day "to see how it goes". If you both decide to call it quits after four hours, that's all they'd charge for. If you, as the client, decide to stay out for the full day, you are committed to paying the full days rate, regardless if conditions improve or not or whether you catch fish or not.

Just my .02 worth.


----------



## Tautog166

Smackdaddy53 said:


> The big girls should always be released, I see no reason to keep fish every trip like a lot of people do.


Some people eat fish. Some people love to eat fish. What is the problem with keeping a few fish every time that they go out?


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Greg Lyles said:


> I don't have a problem tipping guides well who are helpful, work hard and have a good disposition. It's the arrogant, egotistical prima donnas who I can't handle. I've had a couple of those in the past few years. Don't care if they move me to the bottom of the line or remove me entirely. I won't be calling them again anyway.
> 
> Most guides I've ever met are extremely hardworking and knowledgable. They work hard to put you on the fish. But one thing that gets me is the guys who know the conditions are bad and still take your money for what essentially becomes a $700 boat ride. They say I'm buying their time. Not so. I'm buying their expertise. And I count on that expertise to know whether the conditions are conducive to catching fish or if we'll be wasting our time - and my money.
> 
> If those guys had integrity, they'd call in the morning and tell you the truth about the prospect of catching fish under the current conditions. Then, they could offer to take you out for a half day "to see how it goes". If you both decide to call it quits after four hours, that's all they'd charge for. If you, as the client, decide to stay out for the full day, you are committed to paying the full days rate, regardless if conditions improve or not or whether you catch fish or not.
> 
> Just my .02 worth.


You’ll never know if you don’t go. It’s up to the client to fish or not, I’ve never heard of a guide forcing a client to fish BUT if you book a guide for a specific day of days it’s common courtesy for the guide to contact the customer to discuss the conditions and determine if they want to fish or let the guide possibly find other clients that would like to go anyway. Most cancellations I have seen are on the customer not wanting to go and calling at the last minute leaving the guide hanging. No shows are even worse! A deposit will be kept in those cases but if the situation is discussed in advance a good guide will refund the deposit and find another client. Some of the best fishing I’ve had has been on the nastiest days where 90% of the “fishermen” out there wouldn’t even consider getting on the water. It’s all about what kind of guide you hire and also what kind of client you are. 
This coming Thursday is going to be 30 degrees and 15mph NW wind...I’ll be wade fishing waist deep at daylight chunking Fatboys catching big trout solo if I have to be unless something crazy happens that keeps me from going. Most guys will be either in a duck blind, deer stand, working or huddled up on the couch at home.


----------



## Guest

Understood. It's the guys who don't communicate, don't call and act as though its the best fishing day they've ever seen only to get out on the water and talk about how the fishing isn't going to be good because it's blowing or the water is dirty, etc. But those guys still want their $600 or $700 for riding you around on their boat while they talk about how bad things are.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Walter Lee said:


> Some people eat fish. Some people love to eat fish. What is the problem with keeping a few fish every time that they go out?


There’s absolutely nothing wrong with eating fish but lots of people are so greedy they will keep a pile of fish every trip even though they have a freezer full of fillets which most of are already freezer burned. I ate fresh fried trout and redfish just a couple of nights ago but you won’t see me cleaning out my freezer and throwing out bags of freezer burned fillets I stockpiled like firewood that was going to keep me from freezing in winter. Down here we have people crying about lowering trout limits from 10 to 5 fish per day per person because they like the full limits stringer photos or dock shots with piles of fish for their Facebook hero pages. This isn’t 1975, the number of people on the water is growing exponentially and our wildlife biologists still use gill nets to kill a shitload of fish for surveys instead of other new age methods that can record fish numbers without killing them. I remember the days of filling coolers with fish because we were poor and ate everything we killed but then again you’d be feeling crowded on the water if you saw three boats all day. Now you can’t run 30 miles from the ramp and not get run over by boats all day while you’re trying to fish. People can’t limit themselves so agencies have to limit them. Just because there’s a specified daily limit doesn’t mean every legal fish has to hit the fillet table at the end of the day. 
Rant over, this isn’t about tipping guides but I know guys that will tip a guide well just because they care about the resource and nudge clients to release everything or at least keep big breeder trout out of the cooler.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Greg Lyles said:


> Understood. It's the guys who don't communicate, don't call and act as though its the best fishing day they've ever seen only to get out on the water and talk about how the fishing isn't going to be good because it's blowing or the water is dirty, etc. But those guys still want their $600 or $700 for riding you around on their boat while they talk about how bad things are.


If you don’t cancel ahead of time and step on that boat you should only expect to pay for a day of fishing. I understand a little of what you are saying but no one is making you fish, it’s your choice just like it’s your choice to walk to the supermarket and buy a gallon of milk or just walk around and go home.


----------



## Guest

Smackdaddy53 said:


> If you don’t cancel ahead of time and step on that boat you should only expect to pay for a day of fishing. I understand a little of what you are saying but no one is making you fish, it’s your choice just like it’s your choice to walk to the supermarket and buy a gallon of milk or just walk around and go home.


Just the same, it's up to the guide to let the client know if the day is going to be a waste given their knowledge of fishing conditions so the client knows whether they should cancel or not. The client is counting on the guide for this type of insight. 

To use your analogy, the grocery store has an obligation not to sell sour milk. We trust that if we go into the store and buy milk, it's going to be good and, if it's not, that the store will make good on it.

If the guide fails to tell the client the truth about the conditions and the client steps foot on the guides boat only to be disappointed because the guide lacked the integrity to do what was right by the client, choosing instead to take the short-term view of maximizing immediate income at the expense of repeat business and referrals, the client has every right to withhold a tip - or even call the trip short and pay for half a day.

Guiding is a service business and a two-way street. Do unto others. . .


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Greg Lyles said:


> Just the same, it's up to the guide to let the client know if the day is going to be a waste given their knowledge of fishing conditions so the client knows whether they should cancel or not. The client is counting on the guide for this type of insight. If the guide fails to tell the client the truth about the conditions and the client steps foot on the guides boat only to be disappointed because the guide lacked the integrity to do what was right by the client, choosing instead to take the short-term view of maximizing immediate income at the expense of repeat business and referrals, the client has every right to withhold a tip - or even call the trip short and pay for half a day.
> 
> Guiding is a service business and a two-way street. Do unto others. . .


There are always going to be bad guides and also bad customers. Most guides will let their client know if the conditions will be bad and then leave it up to them to call it off and reschedule or go. Most clients will also let the guide know if they won’t make it and not leave the guide sitting at the ramp waiting on a no show when he/she could be taking another customer or taking care of other business. It sounds like you may have gone on a bad trip or two in the past, I’m sorry about that. 
One of my guide buddies takes charters about 3-5 days a week and if they have an absolutely terrible trip he will let them schedule another trip at a discounted price. Sometimes the weather and fish just don’t cooperate.


----------



## Drifter

Most guides have you put down a deposit anyway.

People that take their limit all the time are just ruining the resource. I’m 30, I’ll probably live to the point sportfishig is basically over. Because “people gotta eat fish man!”


----------



## Backcountry 16

Drifter said:


> Most guides have you put down a deposit anyway.
> 
> People that take their limit all the time are just ruining the resource. I’m 30, I’ll probably live to the point sportfishig is basically over. Because “people gotta eat fish man!”


If you saw the massive fish kills from red tide on both coasts this summer in Florida youdy release all fish if your a decent person


----------



## Drifter

Backcountry 16 said:


> If you saw the massive fish kills from red tide on both coasts this summer in Florida youdy release all fish if your a decent person


 I’ve kept on fish my whole life. My family are the whole thing that night at the Flying Turtle! IMO there’s to many people anymore for keeping fish.


----------



## Backcountry 16

Drifter said:


> I’ve kept on fish my whole life. My family are the whole thing that night at the Flying Turtle! IMO there’s to many people anymore for keeping fish.


We have strict rules and bag limits in Florida which I'm fine with because I've lived here my whole life and seen a huge decline and wayyyyy to many boats. That's why I'm petitioning to ban gps's if you can fish chockoloskee with a paper chart and compass you deserve to be there which I can as I've been fishing there since the early 90s.


----------



## Drifter

Backcountry 16 said:


> We have strict rules and bag limits in Florida which I'm fine with because I've lived here my whole life and seen a huge decline and wayyyyy to many boats. That's why I'm petitioning to ban gps'sif you can fish chockoloskee with a paper chart and compass you deserve to be there which I can as I've been fishing there since the early 90s.


Ha better get a better search and rescue post there! I like the gps, it’s way handier then a map in the wind!


----------



## Backcountry 16

Drifter said:


> Ha better get a better search and rescue post there! I like the gps, it’s way handier then a map in the wind!


They're destroying the Everglades is my point. No search and or rescuing needed for this guy down there. For wind you hear of the leeward side of an island takes care of the wind problem. Most millennials couldn't survive without a cell phone let alone navigate with a paper chart and compass.


----------



## Drifter

Backcountry 16 said:


> They're destroying the Everglades is my point. No search and or rescuing needed for this guy down there. For wind you hear of the leeward side of an island takes care of the wind problem. Most millennials couldn't survive without a cell phone let alone navigate with a paper chart and compass.


That’s because they didn’t have to. But there’s plenty of capable millennials. I think population and people having to much free time anymore is the real issue. 

I think the millennial debate is funny as not only did millennials not invent phone, then spread around to everyone, most millennials were given their phones by their parents that wanted them out of their hair! The fact millennials might not be able to use a map worth a shit really looks bad on those gen x guys who had dads taking them fishing!


----------



## Backcountry 16

Drifter said:


> That’s because they didn’t have to. But there’s plenty of capable millennials. I think population and people having to much free time anymore is the real issue.
> 
> I think the millennial debate is funny as not only did millennials not invent phone, then spread around to everyone, most millennials were given their phones by their parents that wanted them out of their hair! The fact millennials might not be able to use a map worth a shit really looks bad on those gen x guys who had dads taking them fishing!


My uncle who is 8 years older than me showed me some of the ropes down there and I learned some for myself. Totally agree about the phone being a baby sitter back in the day my son had one so I could track him. That's why I said most millennials not all. Just like any other generation we all have our morons.


----------



## Drifter

You want less people out there? Pass legislation that makes the maximum loan term for a recreational vehicle at 5 years. Poof there goes 50 percent.


----------



## jmrodandgun

Drifter said:


> Pass legislation that makes the maximum loan term for a recreational vehicle at 5 years


----------



## Backcountry 16

Drifter said:


> You want less people out there? Pass legislation that makes the maximum loan term for a recreational vehicle at 5 years. Poof there goes 50 percent.


Tourism= dollars.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Backcountry 16 said:


> Tourism= dollars.


More tourists + the same amount of water = less space on the water. 
It’s all about the money, not really about the fishery.


----------



## Backcountry 16

Smackdaddy53 said:


> More tourists + the same amount of water = less space on the water.
> It’s all about the money, not really about the fishery.


Yes sir they run boats out of chockoloskee and go on dolphin/ sightseeing tours all about the cash.


----------



## ol' superskiff

Backcountry 16 said:


> We have strict rules and bag limits in Florida which I'm fine with because I've lived here my whole life and seen a huge decline and wayyyyy to many boats. That's why I'm petitioning to ban gps's if you can fish chockoloskee with a paper chart and compass you deserve to be there which I can as I've been fishing there since the early 90s.


Very true backcountry. I didn't own a GPS for the first 20 years of fishing out of Choko, no compass either, just that paper map. Never got lost, at least not for any significant amount of time, and it sure was fun trying to figure it out that way, and you damn sure got to really know where you were going. When I did finally get a GPS, never used it that much because I already knew how to get where I was going. Certainly not against them, but they aren't much use on the all the short cuts and tricks that are helpful to know to navigate down there (unless your tailing someone who already knows and laying tracks as ya go).


----------



## ol' superskiff

ol' superskiff said:


> Very true backcountry. I didn't own a GPS for the first 20 years of fishing out of Choko, no compass either, just that paper map. Never got lost, at least not for any significant amount of time, and it sure was fun trying to figure it out that way, and you damn sure got to really know where you were going. When I did finally get a GPS, never used it that much because I already knew how to get where I was going. Certainly not against them, but they aren't much use on the all the short cuts and tricks that are helpful to know to navigate down there (unless your tailing someone who already knows and laying tracks as ya go).


This post was off topic, sorry skiff nation. Starting the New Year off strong!


----------



## crboggs

yobata said:


> I also liked it because after having 2-18 drinks I didn't have to do any math...


Yeah...but you had to pay $18 per drink...regardless of service...


----------



## yobata

crboggs said:


> Yeah...but you had to pay $18 per drink...regardless of service...


It was around $10, which I don't mind for a good old fashioned with quality bourbon


----------



## SomaliPirate

I don't need no fancy ass GPS as long as I've got my Loran


----------



## wrinklestar

I always tip the guides. Although I would agree at certain times it can be awkward. I went fishing around west palm with a guide, fished the entire day and caught nothing, still tipped the guy a hundred bucks. I did feel bad only tipping one guide 100 bucks, he hit an oyster bar that day and I knew it was going to cost him more than that to replace his prop the way the boat was vibrating back to the launch!


----------



## Backcountry 16

wrinklestar said:


> I always tip the guides. Although I would agree at certain times it can be awkward. I went fishing around west palm with a guide, fished the entire day and caught nothing, still tipped the guy a hundred bucks. I did feel bad only tipping one guide 100 bucks, he hit an oyster bar that day and I knew it was going to cost him more than that to replace his prop the way the boat was vibrating back to the launch!


Him hitting the oyster bar was on him. You weren't driving the boat pretty cool to still tip after no fish I hope you were at least tarpon fishing then he could save face. yes


----------



## crboggs

SomaliPirate said:


> I don't need no fancy ass GPS as long as I've got my Loran


I've got access to an old commercial dive boat's log book. You have no idea what I'd give for working Loran so that we could match and convert all that info to accurate GPS coords...


----------



## SomaliPirate

crboggs said:


> I've got access to an old commercial dive boat's log book. You have no idea what I'd give for working Loran so that we could match and convert all that info to accurate GPS coords...


https://itstillworks.com/convert-loran-gps-numbers-6586661.html


----------



## crboggs

SomaliPirate said:


> https://itstillworks.com/convert-loran-gps-numbers-6586661.html


If this works we're going fishing. 

I'm a bit dubious though since not all Loran transmitters were located in the same place right?


----------



## SomaliPirate

crboggs said:


> If this works we're going fishing.


I'm down!


----------



## wrinklestar

Backcountry 16 said:


> Him hitting the oyster bar was on him. You weren't driving the boat pretty cool to still tip after no fish I hope you were at least tarpon fishing then he could save face. yes


Ummm. No. I usually ask the guide what our opportunities are and then go from there. I had my dad and the father in law on the boat and pretty much didnt care what we caught.
I guess I should have went with the charter that had the topless first mate. At least then the old guys would have been entertained.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

wrinklestar said:


> I always tip the guides. Although I would agree at certain times it can be awkward. I went fishing around west palm with a guide, fished the entire day and caught nothing, still tipped the guy a hundred bucks. I did feel bad only tipping one guide 100 bucks, he hit an oyster bar that day and I knew it was going to cost him more than that to replace his prop the way the boat was vibrating back to the launch!


That’s what insurance is for


----------



## Half Shell

This will not be a popular opinion on here, but here goes:

If it's an average experience, I will probably tip 10% because I hate the awkward feeling; not because I agree with the practice. Anything more than that is warranted if I'm very impressed.

Many here seem to think the boat ride, making me laugh, being a tour guide, etc all makes up for not catching fish and warrants a tip. It does not. I have only seen one website where a guide has virtually no pics of fish and advertises a fun day on the water for family. At least he's being honest. Guides advertise themselves with plenty of trophy fish, tournament wins, etc and that is what are expecting when they spend 1-2 days salary to go fishing.

If I take off work and pay you to take me fishing, I expect to have a good time and have shots at fish; more than I catch by myself. If I miss them for any reason other than guide provided faulty equipment (rusty broken hook on a spook from a NC bull red comes to mind) then that's on me.

Being on-time, reasonably friendly, having decent gear, etc is a given; it's an expectation and the minimum. If your boat breaks, I'm not tipping because I feel bad. I may buy you a beer at the ramp but I'll probably ask for a refund or raincheck. I didn't beg the wife, take off work, and pay $500-2000 (inshore-offshore) to spend the day waiting on SeaTow because you hit an oyster bar or haven't gotten around to getting new batteries.

I couldn't be a guide. I wouldn't want the pressure of meeting clients' expectations. When friends fly down and want to go fishing on my boat they always have these high hopes and I encourage them to hire a guide at least one day. I even tell them I'll split it with them. If we don't catch much, "hey it's fishing" but don't expect a 20-25% tip and on top of published rates for a boat ride.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Half Shell said:


> This will not be a popular opinion on here, but here goes:
> 
> If it's an average experience, I will probably tip 10% because I hate the awkward feeling; not because I agree with the practice. Anything more than that is warranted if I'm very impressed.
> 
> Many here seem to think the boat ride, making me laugh, being a tour guide, etc all makes up for not catching fish and warrants a tip. It does not. I have only seen one website where a guide has virtually no pics of fish and advertises a fun day on the water for family. At least he's being honest. Guides advertise themselves with plenty of trophy fish, tournament wins, etc and that is what are expecting when they spend 1-2 days salary to go fishing.
> 
> If I take off work and pay you to take me fishing, I expect to have a good time and have shots at fish; more than I catch by myself. If I miss them for any reason other than guide provided faulty equipment (rusty broken hook on a spook from a NC bull red comes to mind) then that's on me.
> 
> Being on-time, reasonably friendly, having decent gear, etc is a given; it's an expectation and the minimum. If your boat breaks, I'm not tipping because I feel bad. I may buy you a beer at the ramp but I'll probably ask for a refund or raincheck. I didn't beg the wife, take off work, and pay $500-2000 (inshore-offshore) to spend the day waiting on SeaTow because you hit an oyster bar or haven't gotten around to getting new batteries.
> 
> I couldn't be a guide. I wouldn't want the pressure of meeting clients' expectations. When friends fly down and want to go fishing on my boat they always have these high hopes and I encourage them to hire a guide at least one day. I even tell them I'll split it with them. If we don't catch much, "hey it's fishing" but don't expect a 20-25% tip and on top of published rates for a boat ride.


In the real world people don’t catch trophy fish and win tournaments every trip no matter if they are a guide or just a guy that fishes three or four days a month. Are you after a sack of fillets because tilapia is cheap at HEB...
Call a guide and tell him your expectations just as you post on here and you’ll get laughed at. It’s not even realistic.


----------



## Half Shell

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Are you after a sack of fillets because tilapia is cheap at HEB...
> Call a guide and tell him your expectations just as you post on here and you’ll get laughed at. It’s not even realistic.


what's not realistic is expecting a $100 tip on a $450 4-hour charter because you showed up on time, the boat didn't break down, and you put me on two sailcats by handing me a shrimp under a popping cork.

Put me within casting distance of tailing reds, bonefish, or permit or casting to some tuna busting topwaters offshore and you will get tipped well.


----------



## Backcountry 16

Half Shell said:


> what's not realistic is expecting a $100 tip on a $450 4-hour charter because you showed up on time, the boat didn't break down, and you put me on two sailcats by handing me a shrimp under a popping cork.
> 
> Put me within casting distance of tailing reds, bonefish, or permit or casting to some tuna busting topwaters offshore and you will get tipped well.


That's going to be my charter company ( Sailcat charters) I can guarantee you will catch a catfish on my charter.


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## SomaliPirate

Backcountry 16 said:


> That's going to be my charter company ( Sailcat charters) I can guarantee you will catch a catfish on my charter.


My dad fished a sail cat tournament in Tampa once and him and his partner caught nothing but keeper gags and mangroves all day


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## Backcountry 16

SomaliPirate said:


> My dad fished a sail cat tournament in Tampa once and him and his partner caught nothing but keeper gags and mangroves all day


Sounds about right for tournament fishing.


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## LowHydrogen

Haven't hired too many guides but this ^^^ reminds me of the only bad guide experience I've ever had, and relates to this topic.

Hired this guy to take me striper fishing as I didn't have a boat where I was, or know anything about the striper fishing there. I still don't know anything about stripers there lol.

Guide shows up on time, boat is clean, this guy started talking S^!t about every person on this lake the minute we hit the water. Critiquing their methods, spots, boats, gear. I mean seriously talking down about every person we passed while we were trolling(not my favorite but it's what I signed up for). These were just weekend dudes with families out for fun, they were catching some fish mind you.

I saw some fish working top water on some bait asked him if we could go cast at them "no they won't bite like that here, this is more effective" ok.. no prob you're the Capt. He was also trolling way to close to other people fishing imo, I asked him about it and he said something to the effect of they're not guides they're just out here for fun... I immediately started thinking about the transient guides during Tarpon season at home who post up 200 yds in front of me because they "have clients" with them, and that somehow makes it ok. 

Only hooked one fish the entire time, a nasty ass catfish that we didn't even land because this dudes knot came undone. He's was like you pulled on him too hard, you broke the line, I reel up and see the pigtail on the mono and showed it to him, I was like the knot must have unraveled before it broke.

After a several hours of listening to him I asked him to take me to the landing. So God's gift to striper fishing and I got skunked, and he got 0 tip. Only guide who I haven't given a great tip.

Sorry for the long post


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## Smackdaddy53

Half Shell said:


> what's not realistic is expecting a $100 tip on a $450 4-hour charter because you showed up on time, the boat didn't break down, and you put me on two sailcats by handing me a shrimp under a popping cork.
> 
> Put me within casting distance of tailing reds, bonefish, or permit or casting to some tuna busting topwaters offshore and you will get tipped well.


Come to the middle coast and I’ll put you on redfish all day.


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## sabaird1221

I've been a guide for over 10 years, Southwest Colorado and Everglades City, I also enjoy hiring guides when I am able to go on vacation. I have personally never not tipped a guide on a trip but I don't think it is mandatory. I think if your guide pays attention to your wants and needs along with trying to match your motivations with your fish abilities that deserves a tip. But that still doesn't mean you are going to get one and it doesn't make that person better or worse as a client. Thats the nature of the beast. This job is not for everyone that is a good fisherman, its so much more than that. Yes there is a lot of extra work that goes into that trip aside from the time on the water, but man tying flies and washing my boat in the dark and poling my boat by myself on shitty days is way better than any side work I have had on any job site or waiting tables. The extras are expensive, especially when you aren't booking trips. Nobody gives extensions on bills or guide permits because you are scouting hard. So you better have another skill aside from finding fish. That being said, I think the toughest part about being a fishing guide is remembering how lucky we are. Like I think backcountry said early in post we, for the most part, have a choice out of many options on how we are going to try to make a living. Every job that you choose is going to be good when its good, its the tough times that determine if you can handle a life of this or that as a profession. As guides we don't like to be judged by how many fish we catch because we know there are many factors involved in bringing a fish to the boat, so we cant judge our clients based on whether or not they tip us. There might be a lot of other variables involved in whether there is a tip given or not that we are not aware of. We cant let quality of tip determine the quality of the trip.


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## Frank Ucci

sabaird1221 said:


> I've been a guide for over 10 years, Southwest Colorado and Everglades City, I also enjoy hiring guides when I am able to go on vacation. I have personally never not tipped a guide on a trip but I don't think it is mandatory. I think if your guide pays attention to your wants and needs along with trying to match your motivations with your fish abilities that deserves a tip. But that still doesn't mean you are going to get one and it doesn't make that person better or worse as a client. Thats the nature of the beast. This job is not for everyone that is a good fisherman, its so much more than that. Yes there is a lot of extra work that goes into that trip aside from the time on the water, but man tying flies and washing my boat in the dark and poling my boat by myself on shitty days is way better than any side work I have had on any job site or waiting tables. The extras are expensive, especially when you aren't booking trips. Nobody gives extensions on bills or guide permits because you are scouting hard. So you better have another skill aside from finding fish. That being said, I think the toughest part about being a fishing guide is remembering how lucky we are. Like I think backcountry said early in post we, for the most part, have a choice out of many options on how we are going to try to make a living. Every job that you choose is going to be good when its good, its the tough times that determine if you can handle a life of this or that as a profession. As guides we don't like to be judged by how many fish we catch because we know there are many factors involved in bringing a fish to the boat, so we cant judge our clients based on whether or not they tip us. There might be a lot of other variables involved in whether there is a tip given or not that we are not aware of. We cant let quality of tip determine the quality of the trip.


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## Frank Ucci

30 or so years ago I started hiring a guide to fish in the Keys. I assumed that the amount he charged was what he thought fair, and that was that. I quickly came to realize that I was wrong. The guides generally charge a more or less fixed rate whether you fish with the finest, most experienced guide, or one who is just starting out. Since the finest most experienced guide will
not charge more than the going rate, the tip is the amount extra that I pay him for his experience, knowledge, patience, helpfulness, advice, friendliness etc. etc. If you feel that
your guide is not worthy of a tip, tip him anyway and then find another guide to fish with the
next time.


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## Guest

Backcountry 16 said:


> Although I have only hired a guide once in Cozumel I did tip him I think 50 bucks. But if I went again I think I would also take a few buffs and maybe some fishing shirts for him as that stuff is crazy expensive down there. I would also hire him independently instead of thru the fly fishing outfitters so he receives all the money. Remember if you hook him up and rebook him in the future he will probably remember you and could take you to his honey hole.


I'm not sure that I would go around the outfitter and book directly with the guide.
If I knew that the guide was working both sides like that, I'd be a bit suspect of his professional integrety.


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## Guest

jimsmicro said:


> This is just a huge reason that tipping is a stupid system to begin with. I imagine a guide is charging what he feels is a fair price for a solid day of fishing. The tip is supposed to be a bonus for going above and beyond, and if they do, you decide what that amount is, there's no set dollar value or percentage as far as I know. I also definitely agree with booking a guide outside of the fishing lodge if it gets him a few extra bucks. The resorts have enough money anyway.


Jim, The guide booking through the lodge may be on the lodge's permit, liability insurance, etc. I for one would think that it's not honorable for the guide to book behind the lodge's back. Just my 2cents.


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## Guest

DuckNut said:


> Have you ever tipped the gas station attendant? Neither have I. Have you ever tipped the cashier at the grocery store? Ditto.
> 
> The reason you have never been tipped is because the guide provides a personal service and you provide a transaction. The guides pay is also very transparent and yours is so muddy nobody can find out exactly what you get paid.
> 
> Back on topic, I think the answer to your question has been answered so not much I can add.


I actually tip gas station attendants in Oregon. They pump your fuel and usually make minimum wage.


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## DuckNut

mike_parker said:


> I actually tip gas station attendants in Oregon. They pump your fuel and usually make minimum wage.


Same thing in NJ. They pump your gas. I guess the govt. thinks you can't do it and it keeps employment numbers up.

Just think how affordable gas would be if you didn't have to pay someone $11 to stand there. Your gas runs about a $1 a gallon more than FL.


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## Drifter

Frank Ucci said:


> 30 or so years ago I started hiring a guide to fish in the Keys. I assumed that the amount he charged was what he thought fair, and that was that. I quickly came to realize that I was wrong. The guides generally charge a more or less fixed rate whether you fish with the finest, most experienced guide, or one who is just starting out. Since the finest most experienced guide will
> not charge more than the going rate, the tip is the amount extra that I pay him for his experience, knowledge, patience, helpfulness, advice, friendliness etc. etc. If you feel that
> your guide is not worthy of a tip, tip him anyway and then find another guide to fish with the
> next time.


 Your reasoning kind of contradicts itself a bit...are you paying for the experience, knowledge, etc or not? If you don't get that then why pay for it. I work construction and we all charge similar rates for similar items. Not sure if thats a reason to owe a tip. A tip should reflect good service and experience.


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## krash

Tipping, or expectation of being tipped , has just gotten way out of hand in this country !


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## Dallas Furman

You’ve hired a guide, not god, he can take you where the fish have been use the bed baits and techniques and be friendly as they come but to guarantee a limit to each client as some will do is a fools errand.
I expect a guide to be in contact within a week of our trip confirming the details of our trip, the upcoming weather, and being honest as to how the fishing has been. And always on the table is the opportunity to reschedule.
As far as tipping a guide is more based on your experience. If you think a gratuity is warranted by all means tip your guide. If you don’t...don’t. A guide should have figured out how much he or she needs to make per outing and have their prices adjusted accordingly. If a guide is relying on tips to make ends meet they better be good.
Just my 2 cents worth.


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## sjrobin

As a Texas coastal fly fishing guide, I have canceled as many trips as I have taken due to sight casting conditions and my high expectations for the client. Also I am a shallow water skiff pusher, not a trolling motor operator, so a lot of work is involved. Tips and a good attitude are a good incentive for me to work clients into a limited number of fish hunting days.


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## Smackdaddy53

Dallas Furman said:


> You’ve hired a guide, not god, he can take you where the fish have been use the bed baits and techniques and be friendly as they come but to guarantee a limit to each client as some will do is a fools errand.
> I expect a guide to be in contact within a week of our trip confirming the details of our trip, the upcoming weather, and being honest as to how the fishing has been. And always on the table is the opportunity to reschedule.
> As far as tipping a guide is more based on your experience. If you think a gratuity is warranted by all means tip your guide. If you don’t...don’t. A guide should have figured out how much he or she needs to make per outing and have their prices adjusted accordingly. If a guide is relying on tips to make ends meet they better be good.
> Just my 2 cents worth.


I have an opening next week if you want to go.


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## STR

Tipping is for those people who provide a service and are low paid like waiters for example. Guides can set their fees accordingly and we the customers can chose to hire them or not. I personally would like everything included in the price without the Awkwardness of how much to tip a private business owner. If they work per hour for a company then I feel it appropriate in tipping them weather or not I catch fish. However if I’m going out with a well known guide that charges me $1000 to $1300 to run me out in a flats boat by himself, then no tip. That’s just me.


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## Mako 181

To Insure Prompt Service
T I P S


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## The Fin

sjrobin said:


> As a Texas coastal fly fishing guide, I have canceled as many trips as I have taken due to sight casting conditions and my high expectations for the client. Also I am a shallow water skiff pusher, not a trolling motor operator, so a lot of work is involved. Tips and a good attitude are a good incentive for me to work clients into a limited number of fish hunting days.


I feel that you shouldn’t need a “tip and a good attitude to work clients “ into anything! Your fee should be sufficient. I’ve guided close to 4000 trips and I truly appreciate a tip but it isn’t my motivation for working any harder.


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## E_walker

The Fin said:


> I feel that you shouldn’t need a “tip and a good attitude to work clients “ into anything! Your fee should be sufficient. I’ve guided close to 4000 trips and I truly appreciate a tip but it isn’t my motivation for working any harder.


This is interesting. I've always assumed that guides would feel a bit deflated after recieving no tip, or even a sml tip. Some restaurants in my area refuse to allow tips - I wonder if we'll ever see outfitters do a similar thing. This would help guides and clients feel more comfortable not going through the motion of tipping. It would also allow more discrete tipping when truly deserved. 

2c


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## Yeticrusher01

Tip based on how much beer the guide put in the cooler 😎


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## Smackdaddy53

Yeticrusher01 said:


> Tip based on how much beer the guide put in the cooler 😎


We fish off my boat. Drinking is for after the work is done.


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## Smackdaddy53

The Fin said:


> I feel that you shouldn’t need a “tip and a good attitude to work clients “ into anything! Your fee should be sufficient. I’ve guided close to 4000 trips and I truly appreciate a tip but it isn’t my motivation for working any harder.


When did you start guiding, grade school?


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## The Fin

Smackdaddy53 said:


> When did you start guiding, grade school?


I will let you do the math! 20+ years at 200 days per! One of my colleagues has close to 8000! Not hard when you’re good at what you do and you have the stamina ( kinda like Tom Brady)!😁


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## The Fin

E_walker said:


> This is interesting. I've always assumed that guides would feel a bit deflated after recieving no tip, or even a sml tip. Some restaurants in my area refuse to allow tips - I wonder if we'll ever see outfitters do a similar thing. This would help guides and clients feel more comfortable not going through the motion of tipping. It would also allow more discrete tipping when truly deserved.
> 
> 2c


 Guides usually have a pretty good feel for how the day went. I have had some “no tip” days and always figured that some guests just weren’t aware that tipping was a thing. I’m pretty sure that when I first started going on guided trips, I probably didn’t tip either having thought that several hundred dollars a day was great pay!


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## Smackdaddy53

The Fin said:


> I will let you do the math! 20+ years at 200 days per! One of my colleagues has close to 8000! Not hard when you’re good at what you do and you have the stamina ( kinda like Tom Brady)!😁


I wasn’t second guessing you, I was just impressed! I did the math yesterday evening.


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## STR

Just an idea. How about if the guide sets up two prices. First a price to take you out with every intention and expectation of catching fish. Second, a higher price which would include what the guide would consider a good tip for succeeding at his job of catching fish. Give the customer price number two, and if you fail at putting the customer on fish, then you drop back to price number one and explain that it’s fishing and there’s always a chance that you won’t get any fish. Either way the guide needs to make sure he makes a profit because it is a business. The fact that the customers fun factor could go from bored to tears or super excited should allow for different rates. May sound crazy to some, especially the guides, but if I’m paying $700 to $1300 a day to have fun, then it’s only fair that I should feel satisfied.


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## Erik schmitt

I just use the standard 20% on all trips regardless of outcome


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## Ken T

The Fin said:


> I will let you do the math! 20+ years at 200 days per! One of my colleagues has close to 8000! Not hard when you’re good at what you do and you have the stamina ( kinda like Tom Brady)!😁


Not hard? My trip numbers are similar but I would not say it was ever an easy path. In the line of guiding that I'm in putting up two three decades with 150+ trips per year is not common.

Ken


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## The Fin

STR said:


> Just an idea. How about if the guide sets up two prices. First a price to take you out with every intention and expectation of catching fish. Second, a higher price which would include what the guide would consider a good tip for succeeding at his job of catching fish. Give the customer price number two, and if you fail at putting the customer on fish, then you drop back to price number one and explain that it’s fishing and there’s always a chance that you won’t get any fish. Either way the guide needs to make sure he makes a profit because it is a business. The fact that the customers fun factor could go from bored to tears or super excited should allow for different rates. May sound crazy to some, especially the guides, but if I’m paying $700 to $1300 a day to have fun, then it’s only fair that I should feel satisfied.


Sounds crazy to me!😳


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## Smackdaddy53

STR said:


> Just an idea. How about if the guide sets up two prices. First a price to take you out with every intention and expectation of catching fish. Second, a higher price which would include what the guide would consider a good tip for succeeding at his job of catching fish. Give the customer price number two, and if you fail at putting the customer on fish, then you drop back to price number one and explain that it’s fishing and there’s always a chance that you won’t get any fish. Either way the guide needs to make sure he makes a profit because it is a business. The fact that the customers fun factor could go from bored to tears or super excited should allow for different rates. May sound crazy to some, especially the guides, but if I’m paying $700 to $1300 a day to have fun, then it’s only fair that I should feel satisfied.


Get your own boat and feel satisfied all you want...


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## Jason M

My take on tips is they are for hard work not fun. Throwing out an anchor and waiting for fish to swim is cool and could be very fun. Polling into a 15 mph wind for a single shot at a permit/tarpon/snook/etc is next level effort.


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## KimmerIII

Guiding at the heart of it is a service industry. Guides should be tipped IMO. I know a lot of people that tip $100 per boat for the day and the guide pricing ranges from $500-$800 per boat. I think not tipping your guide is being cheap but that's just my opinion.


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