# Lake Ingram



## STR (Oct 22, 2021)

For those that haven’t been there, or been there during high tide where it actually looks like a lake/big buddy of water, this is it during a low tide. The fishing can be very active since most fish end up concentrated in these channels. We didn’t catch anything big this time out, but plenty of these little guys. Plus there were a few crocodiles to look at up on the banks.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Content creators are going to be scouting it with drones and filming it now. Looks nice!


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

Nice catch. I've kept quiet about that place for 45 years, among others. Hope you don't have to fish with a crowd of boats there next time.


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## STR (Oct 22, 2021)

Truth is Flamingo has way more traffic now than when I started there 30 years back. We were not there alone and there were a lot of boats going by us. If you want secret hide aways you have to go where others are or were scared to go. One is far from the ramp, and the other is places like hells bay where some are afraid to get lost. Even there most are starting to venture into it because technology helps them. I went to Flamingo on a holiday weekend and almost turned around and went home from the chaotic scene at the boat ramp. That's my son in the pictures, and the reason I didn't go home. I stay off the beaten path for the most part like Snake Bight. Nothing stays a secret forever and I'm not the first to share this. Besides, the location isn't really the secret. It's a combination of a few things that makes the location a productive spot or not, and that is up to each person to learn like I did it, with time in the seat.


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## STR (Oct 22, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Content creators are going to be scouting it with drones and filming it now. Looks nice!





Smackdaddy53 said:


> Content creators are going to be scouting it with drones and filming it now. Looks nice!


Well, if they do, they will be breaking the law. Drones are prohibited from flying in national parks.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Lake Ingram has changed quite a bit since I was introduced to it around 1976… The real trouble is the entrance (or exit) at Middle Cape which has gotten wider and wider over the years- particularly since hurricane Wilma in 2005. If something isn’t done Ingram will gradually disappear over time… At present the opening at Middle Cape is at least three or four times bigger than when I first fished it all those years ago…. Wish it weren’t so.

Back then, the tiny channel that runs through Ingram was only marked by stakes that were easy to miss so most were very cautious and very few fished it much…. All of that changed over time…


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Nice I’ll be there tomorrow poaching your spot! Lol just kidding I’ll be fishing my own damn spots tomorrow!


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## STR (Oct 22, 2021)

rovster said:


> Nice I’ll be there tomorrow poaching your spot! Lol just kidding I’ll be fishing my own damn spots tomorrow!





rovster said:


> Nice I’ll be there tomorrow poaching your spot! Lol just kidding I’ll be fishing my own damn spots tomorrow!


I hope you slam them. I’ll be there on Saturday, but not exactly there, lol. Good luck


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## tailchaser16 (Sep 23, 2008)

Curious did the other boats go by you on plane or slow down and idle past you?


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## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

You meant this place right?


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## STR (Oct 22, 2021)

tailchaser16 said:


> Curious did the other boats go by you on plane or slow down and idle past you?


Once you commit to entering lake Ingram on low tide, you’d better be on a plane and don’t come off it until you reach the other end. So yes, they were hauling ass.


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## STR (Oct 22, 2021)

Loogie said:


> You meant this place right?
> View attachment 224046


Wrong lake


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## Miragein (Aug 21, 2015)

lemaymiami said:


> Lake Ingram has changed quite a bit since I was introduced to it around 1976… The real trouble is the entrance (or exit) at Middle Cape which has gotten wider and wider over the years- particularly since hurricane Wilma in 2005. If something isn’t done Ingram will gradually disappear over time… At present the opening at Middle Cape is at least three or four times bigger than when I first fished it all those years ago…. Wish it weren’t so.


Unfortunately, it looks as if rising sea levels will eventually claim the area. Isn’t that why the Park Service is building/built/rebuilt the dams? They’re supposed to be the stop gap to head off the process man put in effect the many years ago?
Remember reading that when East Cape Canal was first dug, you could jump across it. And, that Ingram was a natural freshwater lake/estuary…


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

Miragein said:


> Unfortunately, it looks as if rising sea levels will eventually claim the area. Isn’t that why the Park Service is building/built/rebuilt the dams? They’re supposed to be the stop gap to head off the process man put in effect the many years ago?
> Remember reading that when East Cape Canal was first dug, you could jump across it. And, that Ingram was a natural freshwater lake/estuary…


Every part of Florida's ecosystems have been negatively affected by what the Army Corps of Engineers (and Chamber of Commerce) did for decades, and the efforts to repair as much of the damage as possible are taking a back seat to population growth and development.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Miragein said:


> Unfortunately, it looks as if rising sea levels will eventually claim the area. Isn’t that why the Park Service is building/built/rebuilt the dams? They’re supposed to be the stop gap to head off the process man put in effect the many years ago?
> Remember reading that when East Cape Canal was first dug, you could jump across it. And, that Ingram was a natural freshwater lake/estuary…


The sea levels are not rising, you are just drinking the Kool Aid.


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## Miragein (Aug 21, 2015)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> Every part of Florida's ecosystems have been negatively affected by what the Army Corps of Engineers (and Chamber of Commerce) did for decades, and the efforts to repair as much of the damage as possible are taking a back seat to population growth and development.


No doubt. The ditches/canals are remnants of Flagler’s efforts to drain the Cape Sable area for agriculture and land development back in the early 1900’s…


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## Miragein (Aug 21, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> The sea levels are not rising, you are just drinking the Kool Aid.


Ok, I guess South Florida is just sinking then…too many people weighing it down and all…


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Miragein said:


> Ok, I guess South Florida is just sinking then…too many people weighing it down and all…


It’s a swamp. You’re trying to tell me that the sea level is rising but only in certain areas? 35 years launching at the same boat ramps and the water is no higher than it ever was. If you can provide REAL proof thaf this is happening I’d like to see it, otherwise stop with the climate change bullshit. Greta Thumberg sucks.
I had a guy here in Texas text me not long ago telling me that the water levels have risen over a foot higher than historical levels in my home waters. It’s nonsense. I wadefish, run boats, pole and launch in the same areas and the water is not a foot higher than it used to be. Let me guess…you believe in the covid shots, social distancing, dust masks and all that BS was a good idea too? Some of you will buy any propaganda mainstream media shoves down your throats and it is comical.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Link to a paper written in 2010. The first paragraph outlines the problem clearly. 



https://acwi.gov/sos/pubs/2ndJFIC/Contents/5C_Boudreau_02_25_10_paper.pdf



Abstract The Cape Sable peninsula is located on the southwestern tip of the Florida peninsula within Everglades National Park (ENP). Lake Ingraham, the largest lake within Cape Sable, is now connected to the Gulf of Mexico and western Florida Bay by canals built in the early 1920’s. Some of these canals breached a natural marl ridge located to the north of Lake Ingraham. These connections altered the landscape of this area allowing for the transport of sediments to and from Lake Ingraham. Saline intrusion into the formerly fresh interior marsh has impacted the local ecology. Earthen dams installed in the 1950’s and 1960’s in canals that breached the marl ridge have repeatedly failed. Sheet pile dams installed in the early 1990’s subsequently failed resulting in the continued alteration of Lake Ingraham and the interior marsh.


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## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

STR said:


> Wrong lake


Sarcasm my friend…


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

iMacattack said:


> Link to a paper written in 2010. The first paragraph outlines the problem clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@Miragein did you read this?


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## MikeChamp12 (May 17, 2021)

“How to Navigate and Fish Lake Ingram Everglades” with an image of a girl in a thong fighting a fish. Coming to a YouTubes soon


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

Your an idiot.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

iMacattack said:


> Link to a paper written in 2010. The first paragraph outlines the problem clearly.
> 
> https://acwi.gov/sos/pubs/2ndJFIC/Contents/5C_Boudreau_02_25_10_paper.pdf


Good info @iMacattack

A link to a youtube video about the government's Cape Sable Canals Dam Restoration Project in 2010-11:






...and 11 years later, we finally have the funding and initiative to finish the job with the help of The Florida Audubon Society and Ducks Unlimited leading the project:









Cape Sable Canal Dam Restoration Finally Funded







fl.audubon.org


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## Miragein (Aug 21, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> @Miragein did you read this?


What?! That it’s the water flow and strong tidal flows causing the erosion? No sh!t? Yeah, probably no correlation between the two…









Sea-Level Rise In Everglades National Park - Everglades National Park (U.S. National Park Service)


climate change, sea level rise, sea-level rise




www.nps.gov


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Miragein said:


> What?! That it’s the water flow and strong tidal flows causing the erosion? No sh!t? Yeah, probably no correlation between the two…
> 
> 
> 
> ...


None of that proves anything. I read the link. Sea levels are not rising.


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## Miragein (Aug 21, 2015)

https://parkplanning.nps.gov/showFile.cfm?projectID=56562&MIMEType=application%252Fpdf&filename=ArchaeologicalSurveyofRaulersonCanalHouseDitchandSlagleDitch%2Epdf&sfid=237510



“The incursion of saltwater into formerly freshwater marsh systems as the result of sea level rise has also led to physical collapse of the marshes. This process has been accelerated on Cape Sable by saltwater moving through the canals past the marl ridge and through the smaller canals where the plugs have failed. Sediment, and probably nutrients, from the collapsed marsh also make their way to Florida Bay and the Gulf of Mexico. Replacing the failed plugs is expected to slow the rate of marsh collapse and the loss of sediment and nutrients from the interior marshes of Cape Sable (URS Corporation 2009).”


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

Miragein said:


> The incursion of saltwater into formerly freshwater marsh systems as the result of sea level rise has also led to physical collapse of the marshes.


You really have to look at any information provided by government sources as suspect. They have earned our distrust honestly, lol.

The marsh collapsing or sinking due to erosion, man-made depletion of and/or changes to the Biscayne Aquifer, massive movement of sediment, additional tidal saltwater intrusion and stronger currents from man-made canals, make more sense than the BS narrative about climate change or sea levels rising.


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## paulrad (May 10, 2016)

STR said:


> Wrong lake


Maybe it would be a good idea to post up GPS coordinates on the Internet so that everyone can know exactly where to go. That always helps.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Miragein said:


> https://parkplanning.nps.gov/showFile.cfm?projectID=56562&MIMEType=application%252Fpdf&filename=ArchaeologicalSurveyofRaulersonCanalHouseDitchandSlagleDitch%2Epdf&sfid=237510
> 
> 
> 
> “The incursion of saltwater into formerly freshwater marsh systems as the result of sea level rise has also led to physical collapse of the marshes. This process has been accelerated on Cape Sable by saltwater moving through the canals past the marl ridge and through the smaller canals where the plugs have failed. Sediment, and probably nutrients, from the collapsed marsh also make their way to Florida Bay and the Gulf of Mexico. Replacing the failed plugs is expected to slow the rate of marsh collapse and the loss of sediment and nutrients from the interior marshes of Cape Sable (URS Corporation 2009).”


There is zero evidence that sea levels are rising and definitely not 23 centimeters (9.055 inches) since 1930. This is propaganda driven by our wonderful elites that use trauma based mind control to brainwash the masses. They are still talking about Al Gore’s global warming in these research articles and the goalposts have been moved once again since then and now they call it climate change because the actual temperature was not rising as much as they claimed it would and they changed the name once again to fit the narrative. 
The earth goes through slow changes or cycles of temperature and has long before industry came to be. There was no petroleum industry or burning of fuel to get the earth past the ice age. It’s because the cyclic and subtle variations in temperature are by design. All the rest of this bullshit you believe is as real as unicorn farts and fairy dust. Judging by your behavior during the covid plannedemic you are also easily fooled. I remember all the posts. 

What is real is man diverting water flow by damming some areas, dredging canals in others and hurricane erosion. They just want you to believe that 9 inches of water is what is collapsing the marsh when in reality it’s exactly what I stated it was…man diverting the natural flow of fresh water to the sea and the overwhelming exponential population explosion of coastal areas especially the more sensitive peninsula we know as Florida.

Here is another bit of research on the history of the area. Pages 3-5 are littered with propaganda trying to persuade people to believe sea levels are rising at a rapid rate since 1930 and the man made canals, dams and natural hurticanes had nothing to do with the erosion issues…and 2400 to 2500 years ago (important time if you know the history of man) to now sea levels were already rising 3-5 centimeters per century without industry (if you believe man elevated the temperature of the earth enough to melt glaciers).

Page 3, 4 and 5



http://npshistory.com/publications/ever/cape-sable-2005.pdf


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> You really have to look at any information provided by government sources as suspect. They have earned our distrust honestly, lol.
> 
> The marsh collapsing or sinking due to erosion, man-made depletion of and/or changes to the Biscayne Aquifer, massive movement of sediment, additional tidal saltwater intrusion and stronger currents from man-made canals, make more sense than the BS narrative about climate change or sea levels rising.


Exactly


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## Miragein (Aug 21, 2015)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> You really have to look at any information provided by government sources as suspect. They have earned our distrust honestly, lol.
> 
> The marsh collapsing or sinking due to erosion, man-made depletion of and/or changes to the Biscayne Aquifer, massive movement of sediment, additional tidal saltwater intrusion and stronger currents from man-made canals, make more sense than the BS narrative about climate change or sea levels rising.


Dude, GTF out with that nonsense. You and Smack too bored in your Off Section echo chamber that ya gotta pull the conspiracy bs here now? Again, I’m not disagreeing that erosion is the issue. I’m just saying, along with the data, that the two go hand and hand…
I also did not get into why the sea levels are rising. God forbid we have that discussion on this forum. Just that we know, with scientific evidence, that they are. And no, sorry—some guy on the internet who lives in BFE Texas telling me his local ramp has been at the same water level ever since he started boating does not count as irrefutable evidence that the sea level is not rising…


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Was there today. Fishing was not great there was a ton of finger mullet and Tarpon busting them in Middle cape canal they were all over us but no takers. Ran the lake thinking the tide was higher than it was when I got to the south end talk about butt puckering but my Evo made it fine but not going to lie I thought I was going to have issues. Never seen it that low and that’s after the tide was coming in for some time.


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## STR (Oct 22, 2021)

rovster said:


> Was there today. Fishing was not great there was a ton of finger mullet and Tarpon busting them in Middle cape canal they were all over us but no takers. Ran the lake thinking the tide was higher than it was when I got to the south end talk about butt puckering but my Evo made it fine but not going to lie I thought I was going to have issues. Never seen it that low and that’s after the tide was coming in for some time.


Like I said, running it at low tide can pucker you up, lol. I’d rather not, but worst case is you get stuck and wait for the tide to change. Really bad would be that it happens on the way in late in the day just before dark in the summer time. Not that they don’t come out in the winter, but would be unbearable without a bug suit.


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Kids n’ crocs…


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

rovster said:


> Was there today. Fishing was not great there was a ton of finger mullet and Tarpon busting them in Middle cape canal they were all over us but no takers. Ran the lake thinking the tide was higher than it was when I got to the south end talk about butt puckering but my Evo made it fine but not going to lie I thought I was going to have issues. Never seen it that low and that’s after the tide was coming in for some time.


I ran Cape Sable yesterday morning. Lot of bait, tarpon, sharks but nothing liked what I had to offer. Went into Middle Cape around 11:00 and fished the lake for a while until 2:30. Got 5 small rat reds, nothing legal and 3 line sides that were also short. We got some whisker trout but that goes without saying. 

Beautiful day in the park but yes fishing was slow.
I may have seen you out at the mouth on the west side of east cape on our way back to the ramp.

As the famous Capt LeMay says "Nothing Like The Glades"


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

STR said:


> Like I said, running it at low tide can pucker you up, lol. I’d rather not, but worst case is you get stuck and wait for the tide to change. Really bad would be that it happens on the way in late in the day just before dark in the summer time. Not that they don’t come out in the winter, but would be unbearable without a bug suit.


Had to spend a night in there once about 5 years ago. Coming off the bank one late afternoon and did not make it out to the markers. Got out of the lake around 3:00 AM.

Shorts and short sleeve Tee Shirt.

No Sleep..
Tough Night!


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

Mako 181 said:


> I ran Cape Sable yesterday morning. Lot of bait, tarpon, sharks but nothing liked what I had to offer. Went into Middle Cape around 11:00 and fished the lake for a while until 2:30. Got 5 small rat reds, nothing legal and 3 line sides that were also short. We got some whisker trout but that goes without saying.
> 
> Beautiful day in the park but yes fishing was slow.
> I may have seen you out at the mouth on the west side of east cape on our way back to the ramp.
> ...


Yeah day was gorgeous. I was really hopeful I’d hook up on a tarpon there was a 45min window where they were busting all around us there was tons of finger mullet. I was hanging out in that area most of the morning. Ran the lake around noon stopped at one spot in East Cape canal and gave up. Kids were bored with little to no action and they are used to the Bimini on Grandpas boat it was HOT yesterday. Still glad I went it’s always nice to get out I saw one of the biggest sharks I’ve ever seen yesterday was very “Jaws” like. Was slightly disturbing lol. Sounds like you had a better day than us!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Any time someone mentions global warming, climate change, sea levels rising... or whatever the current catch phrase is.. I tend to get a bit cranky... Nothing in the above mentions what they'd just as soon no one considers... Climate has never been stable at all - the changes, though, come so slowly that most will be willing to believe - this new religion.... In fact the old saw... "Everyone complains about the weather... but no one ever does anything about it..." is no longer true. In fact there's a whole industry backed by research (the research that was paid for - and as a result might not exactly be particularly reliable... ) that's finally doing something about the weather - and will be getting all of us to pay for it... While places like China (and others) must be laughing at us... and doing their best to surpass us as we wallow in these new policies... Note that none of the current "science" about climate change even mentions the sun, our very own star that this planet orbits around - and the actual candle that warms or cools this planet - and the sun itself fluctuates in the amount of radiation it sends our way. Like planets everywhere in this or any other solar system (or galaxy if you prefer a broader view...) we're completely at the mercy of our very own star... 

In fact, the climate is always warming or cooling over time and water levels will rise or fall over time. Down here in paradise, south Florida, it's helpful to remember that 10,000 years ago - where Orlando is today... was in fact oceanfront property - and our Everglades only assumed its current form about 5,000 years ago. Before that south Florida was completely under water... The best primer on the Everglades itself and man's attempts to change, curtail, drain, the 'glades.. is the book, THE SWAMP by Michael Grunwald... I highly recommend it since it goes into detail about all of the attempts to "tame nature" and turn the Everglades into "productive land"... Thank heavens most of those attempts failed completely -but they left behind a bunch of problems that we're still dealing with today....

In the area of Cape Sable all of the canals into the interior (House, Slagle ditches, and others...) were cut into the 'glades in an attempt to permit drainage with the hope that eventually they could actually drain the swamp... In the fifty years I've been involved with the 'glades most of the action by Everglades National Park have been efforts to reverse the process started before World War Two when it was still our state's policy - to "DRAIN THE EVERGLADES.. Thank heavens the 'glades defeated most of their efforts..Since then most of Everglades National Park's efforts have been to mitigate those destructive policies and prevent saltwater intrusion up into areas that should be nurseries with a mix of fresh and saltwaters needed to nourish all the plants, fish, and animals in the interior. In some places they've succeeded in others they failed but not for lack of trying ... The plug in Buttonwood canal was a great success (most call it the dam...) and was installed in the early part of the eighties after many complained that too much saltwater was getting up into the interior when the canal was open and free flowing. I'm proud to say that the fishing club I belonged to (the Tropical Anglers Club) at the time, was part of that effort - along with many other clubs and conservation groups... After the plug was installed a second boat ramp was needed at Flamingo to allow access down into Florida Bay. That's why Flamingo has had two ramps since the early eighties... 

Back to Lake Ingram which sparked this current discussion... In fact "rising sea levels" have nothing to do with the inevitable result of our cutting into what was a freshwater lake (Ingram) - all those years ago with the creation of East Cape canal and the opening at Middle Cape to allow access into Ingram and along the way turn it into a tidal area... The normal tidal flow alone has greatly changed that area - long before I was ever there - fifty years ago now... Hurricane Wilma back in 2005 greatly accelerated that process. That's why I pointed out that unless we intervene Ingram will continue to change and as Middle Cape opens up, that process will accelerate.... Wish it weren't so - and I haven't heard of any plans to do anything about it at all... Just one more legacy of the mistakes made long, long ago...


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

@lemaymiami
That was the best and most honest explanation I've heard on the subject, Capt. LeMay. Thank you sir.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> @lemaymiami
> That was the best and most honest explanation I've heard on the subject, Capt. LeMay. Thank you sir.


Coming from someone with vast firsthand experience with the area this is gold. Thanks Captain LeMay.


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

Every trip into the Everglades (both north and south) provides evidence to me that the saltwater is in places that it didn't used to be. Stumps of giant _black_ mangrove trees and sable palms with their feet wet indicate, to me anyway, that the water levels are changing. Was it that way a thousand years ago? Maybe, maybe not. I've seen this same "evidence" in places as different as Mud Bay and Turner River. I'm not a scientist, I just know what I see. I'm sure the human race is causing irreparable harm to that Park, no way or another. Tread lightly... I hope we can enjoy it for the rest of our and our children's lives.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

mwolaver said:


> Every trip into the Everglades (both north and south) provides evidence to me that the saltwater is in places that it didn't used to be. Stumps of giant _black_ mangrove trees and sable palms with their feet wet indicate, to me anyway, that the water levels are changing. Was it that way a thousand years ago? Maybe, maybe not. I've seen this same "evidence" in places as different as Mud Bay and Turner River. I'm not a scientist, I just know what I see. I'm sure the human race is causing irreparable harm to that Park, no way or another. Tread lightly... I hope we can enjoy it for the rest of our and our children's lives.


Captain LeMay explained it very well.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> Every part of Florida's ecosystems have been negatively affected by what the Army Corps of Engineers (and Chamber of Commerce) did for decades, and the efforts to repair as much of the damage as possible are taking a back seat to population growth and development.


The government fd something up what a surprise.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Miragein said:


> Unfortunately, it looks as if rising sea levels will eventually claim the area. Isn’t that why the Park Service is building/built/rebuilt the dams? They’re supposed to be the stop gap to head off the process man put in effect the many years ago?
> Remember reading that when East Cape Canal was first dug, you could jump across it. And, that Ingram was a natural freshwater lake/estuary…


Jim Jones has some kool-aid for you.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

One other small point about the Everglades (and other wild places everywhere... ). Lots of mistakes were made over years by the folks running things (and this is universal - in every country worldwide...) more out of ignorance than anything else. Yes, there are always bad actors that will do anything to benefit themselves without the slightest thought of the consequences - but I figure most of the time decision makers act on the evidence at hand - and it's only years later, when we know more that we begin to deal with the consequences... Look at the history of flood control down here on the Atlantic side of Florida, back in the early fifties. That was a time when lots and lots of folks moved into our state - then got really trashed by a series of hurricanes. After lots of trouble the state went to the Corps of Engineers and asked them to establish a good flood control infrastructure, starting from Lake O on down to the south. The Corps accepted the challenge and did a great job on flood control - and a terrible disaster for the Everglades along the way... Hardly anyone complained - and those that did - were ignored. It wasn't until years later that scientists realized how badly the 'glades were hurt by what we asked the Corps to do.... In fact if we start right now it will take tons of money, literally, and a lot of years to sort it all out. Our grandkids will still be struggling with these issues - long after we're gone...


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Okay climate alarmists answer this question for me if sea levels are rising do you think the elites would be buying oceanfront property? Even better do you thinks banks would loan money to investors building high-rise on the beach? Do banks loan money to lose money? You have to look behind the bullshit people it's not that hard to see if you're eyes are open.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backcountry 16 said:


> Okay climate alarmists answer this question for me if sea levels are rising do you think the elites would be buying oceanfront property? Even better do you thinks banks would loan money to investors building high-rise on the beach? Do banks loan money to lose money? You have to look behind the bullshit people it's not that hard to see if you're eyes are open.


Don’t expect much if you are asking a climate activist/wokester to make sense of anything. 
Global warming…but we had record low temperatures this month for an extended period. That’s why they had to change the name of their conspiracy theory to climate change…current weather doesn’t fit their global warming narrative any more. They even blamed the hurricanes on us! Weather is always going to change but people (human nature) generally will not. These wokesters cling to all sorts of nonsense and believe it until they don’t then they’ll act like they still believe it so they don’t look like they were fooled. It’s exhausting.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Don’t expect much if you are asking a climate activist/wokester to make sense of anything.
> Global warming…but we had record low temperatures this month for an extended period. That’s why they had to change the name of their conspiracy theory to climate change…current weather doesn’t fit their global warming narrative any more. They even blamed the hurricanes on us! Weather is always going to change but people (human nature) generally will not. These wokesters cling to all sorts of nonsense and believe it until they don’t then they’ll act like they still believe it so they don’t look like they were fooled. It’s exhausting.


That's why they changed it to climate change if you change the word it's true remember vaccine change as well wonder how that's working for them?🙄


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## mwolaver (Feb 6, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Captain LeMay explained it very well.


I'm well aware of everything that Bob mentioned, Smack. I've been fishing down there almost as long as he has. And I live on another lagoon that was once fresh until permanent inlets were installed by us...the Indian River. Talk about an environmental nightmare. I was tactfully trying to point out that neither you nor I can prove or disprove water level rise to each other. If it is rising, is it because of recent human mistakes or as part of the "normal fluctuation" that many point out? Plenty of data our there that show water levels higher now than they were 40 or 50 years ago. 

Let's just all agree that the OP's fishing hole is under constant change and it's manmade. And it's super dangerous to try and navigate, so stay away!!!


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

paulrad said:


> Maybe it would be a good idea to post up GPS coordinates on the Internet so that everyone can know exactly where to go. That always helps.


And make sure that you include drone footage as well!


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

I recall Glen Simmons talking about this in his book Gladesman. He said when they cut the canal it was as wide as a canoe roughly. Today there is no way you could even cast from one side to the other. Prior to that it was all freshwater. The tide at the Cape rips and has torn that completely open. In fact, he predicted this exact thing happening as a result of opening the channel there. Has nothing to do with global warming to seas rising. People cut a canal there that pushes and pulls massive amounts of water every few hours.


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## rovster (Aug 21, 2018)

The current in those canals RIPS. This past weekend going through those creeks was like going through rapids no lie. There was white caps and frothy water going around corners. Crazy!


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## ebr (Sep 6, 2019)

lemaymiami said:


> is the book, THE SWAMP by Michael Grunwald...


I read (actually listened to) that book on my recent 4400 mile trip with my new skiff. Very informative.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

iMacattack said:


> Link to a paper written in 2010. The first paragraph outlines the problem clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing that study.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> Good info @iMacattack
> 
> A link to a youtube video about the government's Cape Sable Canals Dam Restoration Project in 2010-11:
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing that video.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Great book, Bob. I also encourage everyone who has any interest in the ENP and SFL in general to read this.

The Swamp: The Everglades, Florida, and the Politics of Paradise. By Michael Grunwald


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## James Humphrey (Dec 31, 2017)

iMacattack said:


> Link to a paper written in 2010. The first paragraph outlines the problem clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank You for the actual science on the matter...


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