# Planning First Build



## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Hi I'm new here and new to micro skiffs and boat building. I am looking at building a small boat for fishing in volusia county Florida. Mainly rivers such as the halifax, indian, and st John's. I have a few ideas but I would like to keep it very simple to start. As a first build I would like to build a pirogue to learn, or possibly a modified pirogue if possible. By modified I mean flat back with transom, and possibly angling the bow up to handle a small outboard as well as a foam under subfloor. Also really like the frs12 skiff but would like the option of a second angler. Now if a modified pirogue will not work as I hope as I understand they can be unstable, is there any other simple skiffs similar to the frs12 that can handle two anglers? I am pretty handy with my hands and working with wood and have some basic wood working tools.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Also forgot to add, I have very limited fiberglass experience besides a few repairs on a boat I used to have but I would like to glass whatever I build unless I stick a basic pirogue then I may just stick to epoxy and paint.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

12’ is too small for two people in a narrow hull like a pirogue. Our 14’ was 25” wide at the chine and our 16’ was 28” wide at the chine. I looked at the Gator Boats flatback pirogue plans, but never pulled the trigger and now the site went under. My hull is similar to a flatback pirogue, but now that Photoshop limits links from free accounts, most of my pics are gone. Most flatback pirogue plans I’ve found have some rocker, so HP is limited. The concept is simple enough that you can make one without plans like most folks in the third world.

Nate


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

I was worried a pirogue was too small, I just love the simplicity of them. Any other ideas for a small simple design? I would like a grab rail, cooler for a seat, and 5hp or so outboard. Just something to scoot around the rivers but stable enough to stand and gig from when id like. I could buy a jon boat and be done with it, but I like the idea of building a small boat like all the ones I have seen.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Also should mention Im not against folding or portable outriggers as I do need this build to stay pretty slim as I plan to keep it in my garage with my jetski and Harley.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Do a search for grass slipper by Brett.

He built a very simple skiff that has served him well. He went into unbelievable detail and you could build the same boat from the thread even if you can't spell plywood.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Looked up Brett's boat and it's nice but just alittle bigger than what I'm looking for, or at least appears that way from the pics. I'm looking for something more gheenoe like.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

This might do what you’re looking for. The nice thing about the plywood over frame designs is that they are easy to modify.

http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_endu.php

It’s built like a pirogue and it’s easy to put 1-2 layers of 6 oz glass on the outside.

If you’re wanting to be able to stand and fish with two people, I’d consider the minimum size to be 14’ long and 36” wide at the chines. This assumes both guys are sub 200 lbs and reasonably agile. A 5 hp isn’t going to plane that, you’ll need a 9.9 minimum in good conditions, a 15 hp would be better. If you don’t mind going slow and are in calm areas the 5 hp should move it at 8-10 mph.


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

Here's a simple plywood skiff I designed and built many years ago. Very stable. Flat bottom , 12' long and a 4' beam. 2 people can fish out of it. It would plane with 1 adult and 1 kid with a 6hp 4 stroke.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Bass flats I do like that design. Any other pics? I used tape and laid out a 10ft modified pirogue design on the kitchen floor to get a feel for physical size. At 10ft long, 30" bottom, and probably 12" sides, am I setting my self up for failure with a trolling motor? The livewell and Cooler would be glassed in and only 6" high to double as seats.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

Pirogue said:


> Bass flats I do like that design. Any other pics? I used tape and laid out a 10ft modified pirogue design on the kitchen floor to get a feel for physical size. At 10ft long, 30" bottom, and probably 12" sides, am I setting my self up for failure with a trolling motor? The livewell and Cooler would be glassed in and only 6" high to double as seats.


That will be fine for one guy under 200 lbs but you’re not going to take a passenger in it. If you’re planning to sit on the “cooler” portion in the back, the battery needs to go in the bow. That boat will be very sensitive to weight shifts. If you’re pretty agile you should be able to stand up and cast though.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Well I am very agile am young, 24yrs, 160lbs, and have stood in kayaks and canoes but would like a passenger. How big would I need to make it to add a passenger? When I research pirogues and other similar boats I see so much different into on them.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

If you go to a 13’ x 30” pirogue with a flat stern like you’ve drawn it should handle a passenger in calm conditions. You won’t be able to both stand and cast though, for that I’d recommend a minimum of a 14’ x 36” bottom.

I have a 14’ x 25” bottom pirogue I built, with myself, my wife, and a small soft cooler (300 lbs), it is very close to max capacity. It paddles sluggishly, is tippy, and a very small boat wake will almost come over the tunnel from the side.

I built a 16’ x 27” bottom and it is much more stable, with the same load it sits much higher in the water.

I also have a 14’ x 30” aluminum jon boat, by myself I can stand and pole it from a cooler on top of the seat in dead calm water. With a second person in it, if one is standing and the other is sitting but leans to reach for something it will about knock the person standing out of it.

In my friend’s 14’ x 36” 3 of us were able to stand and cast as long as no one got too crazy.

If you’re up in Tallahassee this summer you’re welcome to try my pirogue and Jon boat, it’s a world if difference.

I also bought a set of the Gator pirogue plans in the past, if they’ve gone under I’d think it would be fine to share them. The plans are basically just construction methods anyways, as most people set their own dimensions. The way they cut the stem is unique but not necessary. There are also several other free or inexpensive pirogue plans online.


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

Pirogue, I found one more pic of that skiff. This design is far from being a pirogue. It wasn't intended to be paddled . It poled fine. Obviously, the wider the beam the more stable it will be. I would consider increasing the beam on a 10' boat to 40" if your want to motorize it. Bateau has a few 12' and under motorized boat designs.


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## seapro17sv (Feb 3, 2015)

BassFlats said:


> View attachment 73132
> Pirogue, I found one more pic of that skiff. This design is far from being a pirogue. It wasn't intended to be paddled . It poled fine. Obviously, the wider the beam the more stable it will be. I would consider increasing the beam on a 10' boat to 40" if your want to motorize it. Bateau has a few 12' and under motorized boat designs.


You haven't mentioned a budget, so that will of course make a huge difference, because materials are not cheap regardless of the design you choose. I just finished my 4th Bateau boat designed by Jacques Mertens, and depending on your budget you can definitely find a design on the Bateau sight to fit your needs. If you want a Gheenoe style boat, the SC16 is an easy build with minimal materials, stable enough for 2 young thin agile guys, and will plane no problem with a 6hp. Actually a 6hp will probably get you between 15 and 20 mph. If you want a little bit more of a flats boat look, and a better 2 man platform, the SK14 is a great boat. I weigh 175 and I got 16mph with a 6hp. The guy I sold it to put a 20 on it, so I'm sure he's getting in the mid 30's. Using all the best materials, including Okoume plywood, biaxial cloth, Awlgrip paint, and floatation foam under the sole, my cost was $2400 for the SK14. There are a lot of other designs to choose from, and you'll not find a better forum, with better advice and support anywhere, including the designer himself answering most questions within a day unless when he's off the grid on occasion. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask, I check the sight everyday. Good luck with whatever design you choose, it's a ton of fun I'm including a few shots of the SK14, and the GF16 I just finished. Mike


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Wow these are all great plans to consider with some nice boats being built. Do yall think a "punt" would suit my applications better? I found free plans for the one below.


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## seapro17sv (Feb 3, 2015)

Pirogue said:


> Wow these are all great plans to consider with some nice boats being built. Do yall think a "punt" would suit my applications better? I found free plans for the one below.


That looks like a nice boat, but not seeing the plans it's hard to recommend. Also, you have not said what your budget is, and that will help everyone with giving suggestions. Do you have a $1000 or $10,000 budget? Makes a big difference. Depends also on the materials used. You can use Okoume ply, the best and most expensive, next would be Meranti, than it's all downhill from there. Personally I would not use anything cheaper than Meranti, if you want a good boat, that's fairly light, and will last a long time. The punt shown is similar to the design of the Garvey 16 I pictured above, and it's available in a 14' plan as well. You could eliminate the middle seat and have wide gunwales for support, or 3" frames on the hull sides, leaving the middle of the boat open. Spend time on the Bateau sight and look at tons of pictures and builds, and look at all the study plans for boats in the size range you're looking for. There are a lot of Jacque's boats being built all over Florida, and in countries around the world, so the support on the forum is excellent.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Thanks a ton I will check out that site! For a first build I'd like to keep it around $1000. I see I clearly still need to do more research lol. There's so many different types to choose it's crazy.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

I'm gonna sit down tonight and brainstorm everything I'd like out of the boat so that I can come to a better conclusion of what I'm looking for. Thanks again everyone!


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Don't put a deck on it.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

So I've settled on the punt I posted above, as I've read some build threads on it and it seems pretty simple. Just have a few questions. Would I be okay posting the link to the plans on here or can I PM someone? They're free plans I just have some questions regarding materials.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

1.) Permanent coolers in the center of a nano-skiff sound cool, but don't do it. You have to be able to walk the midline. My skiff tips noticeably when I am standing with my feet shoulder width apart and simply raise a foot to step up or down to or from the deck. My hull is 40" wide across the chines at the middle station.

2.) Do you want a planing hull or a displacement hull? Make sure you know what you are getting. That punt is a displacement hull. There is nothing wrong with that, but be sure it is what you want.

3.) If you want a cheap project for a first boat build, consider skin-on-frame construction. I found a SOF duck boat in an old PM article called the Bluebill recently that can be built with a transom for a small motor. It would be a displacement hull. I would use the frame dimensions in those plans, but use the techniques and materials recommended by the Kudzu Craft site.

4.) You can post links to other sites. It would be rude to post a link to a competitor if this site was devoted to a specific product, but it isn't.

Nate


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

https://hvartial.kapsi.fi/wpunt/wpunt.htm

So there is the plans. I have a few more issues to work out of them. Would red oak work for the seats, frames, rub rails and other out of the water pieces? The hull will be made from lauan and everything will be glassed and painted.

Some other questions are will 1x2" red oak work for frames? Also it says stitch and glue but can I use stainless screws since they will be glassed and painted over?


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

Quality of materials is determined by duration of service.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Hoping for 5 years or so, then build a bigger one.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

The curves aren’t too extreme and it is a low power displacement hull, so luan would be acceptable if you can find decent quality, which can be difficult. Oak is fine also. It won’t be a museum piece, but it will float. Many guys, including myself, get hung up on quality when building their first boat, but ultimately make too many mistakes to bother with top-of-the-line everything. While it isn’t worth you time hamburger something together out of garbage, using adequate materials to just get something built and on the water is fine. Use cheaper wood to offset the cost of the epoxy, but spend the money and use epoxy so you learn to use the material for future reference. Your next boat can be your masterpiece.

Nate


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

Red oak is more porous than white oak which is why wooden boat builders use white oak. Can you use red oak, sure. Just make sure that every bit of it has several coats of epoxy on it as ,well as a good topcoat finish,
Especially fastener holes. Florida's hot humid weather can find the smallest of cracks and start the rot process. As for plywood, I wouldn't use anything less than marine ply. D-fir is ok as long as you epoxy light weight cloth over it, because it will check, even with 3 coats of epoxy resin,2 coats of epoxy primer and 2 coats of awlgrip (ask me how I know). I would put the light weight cloth on the other marine plys also for extra protection.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

I wouldn’t use either oak. Red is too porous. White floats to low in the water. Too many better products available Use some sort of ply or man made. You won’t be sorry. There’s a bending grade plywood available,will bend close to 4” circle at 3/8 thick. 3 ply luan. 1/4 underlayment is available in a no rot product


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Well what would yall reccomend for a decent budget build of the punt. I don't need pretty, I need a good boat to fish a lot and it will get get beat on a little crabbing and flounder gigging. I'm open to other material suggestions as I'm trying to learn. I just can't spend too much on my first build. Would like to keep it around 800-1000 if possible


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## Guest (May 10, 2019)

Pirogue said:


> Well what would yall reccomend for a decent budget build of the punt. I don't need pretty, I need a good boat to fish a lot and it will get get beat on a little crabbing and flounder gigging. I'm open to other material suggestions as I'm trying to learn. I just can't spend too much on my first build. Would like to keep it around 800-1000 if possible


Well you asked...
Looks like a simple stitch n glue project.
I would build it in core myself.
I would use 5/8 carbon core pe foam
Polyester resin
Outside lay up would be...
1 layer 3/4 oz csm, 1 layer 18 oz woven
Inside would be 2 layers 3/4 oz or 1 layer 1.5 oz csm and 1 layer 10 oz cloth. 
Seats and bulkheads/bracing/deck would be 1 layer 1.5 oz/ or [email protected] 3/4 oz csm and a layer of 10oz cloth. I would use 1208 biax on a -45/+45 to tab seats, bulkheads, braces in. 

The carbon core foam is priced very respectfully to your budget, as is polyester resin! This boat if care is taken and built properly will be lightweight, durable, fit your budget, and last pretty much forever if taken care of. If you decided to sell it, it would be an easier sell to most being built out of foam core than with wood also. There’s my two pennies, James


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Boatbrains said:


> Well you asked...
> Looks like a simple stitch n glue project.
> I would build it in core myself.
> I would use 5/8 carbon core pe foam
> ...


Wow thanks so much James! That's awesome, I will look into all the stuff you mentioned and get a price list together. Do you mind if I PM you if I have anymore questions?


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Any good sources for the materials James? So many options I wanna make sure I get on the right track. Thanks!


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## Guest (May 11, 2019)

It might be a bit of a drive for ya, but I get pretty much all of my materials from fiberglass discount store in Tampa. I believe Fiberglass Coatings Inc. has a store down your way, though I am not sure if they carry the carbon core pe foam. And of course you can pm me with any questions ir just ask on here for the masses to help also.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Well where would I find the materials for the hull and what kind of prices would I be looking at? I'm more familiar with wood but willing to try the carbon core pe foam as it sounds like a good material, just not sure exactly what I'm looking for. Tampa is not too far of a drive for me if the prices are right for good material.


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## Guest (May 11, 2019)

The core runs just under $100 a 4x8 sheet and a 5gallon pale of resin will set you back around $100. For the FG cloth you will be better off ordering by the yd from FGCI online because your not buying full rolls and he don’t stock it all in cut to length. You’ll also need some fairing compound and my guy has that also at around $70 gallon for some good compound. I buy my mekp by the gallon so I couldn’t tell you what smaller quantities cost.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Is this the foam you're referring to?


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## Guest (May 11, 2019)

That’s it.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

I can't find 5/8, would 1/2 be too thin?


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

And would that foam work with stitch and glue just like wood?


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## Guest (May 11, 2019)

The 16mm is roughly 5/8”. The process is very similar for stitch and glue however you will have to improvise a little. I would use small blocks of wood and screws to hold the pieces while the “glue” kicks the remove before glassing.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

Gotcha that makes sense. How would I go about a butt connection sense the sheets need to be connected for the length. Would the same method as the blocks of wood and adhesive work?


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## Guest (May 11, 2019)

Just end/butt glue the sections with gorilla glue and let cure. Then use as a single piece.


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## Pirogue (May 5, 2019)

That sounds easier. Well I'll continue doing more research on small things and hope to have this project on it's way soon. Thanks again! I'm sure I'll have more questions.


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