# help comparing boats.



## fishy82 (Nov 6, 2011)

I like the hpx series boats. for the areas mentioned, i would go with the hpxv instead of T. most shallow areas in sanibel are no wake or minumum wake, so you probably will not make too much use of the tunnel. having fished on both the v and the t, i would take the better ride and more speed than running super skinny. i have also fished st A for many years and feel the same about going with the hpxv there as well.

i have not been on the marquesa, but have heard nothing but great things. the hpxv or T rides better than the ranger in my opinion.

really, it all comes down to how much you want to spend. Given an unlimited budget, i would demo the HB, Egret 167, and HPX series (both T and V).


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## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

As far as Ankona Brand is concerned, the SUV 17 would probably fit your needs better than the Copperhead, and at a price much lower than the other brands you have listed. I own one.. very happy with quality, performance, options and the experience with the folks who build them. Good luck!


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## Luke_WL. (Nov 28, 2012)

I am just worried that the hpx V wont get quite skinny enough. I do want to be able to get into where I want down in the keys and the glades etc. I have ridden in the tunnel and it isnt too rough or wet of a ride. I havent seen the egret, I will look at it. 

I did forget to ad I want to have a livewell/release well in the boat too. 

SurfnFishr, what is different between the SUV and the Copperhead? The site is pretty vague about the descriptions on the boats. I assume since they do custom boats I could get them to do a livewell etc and set it up how I want. I do like the pricepoint!


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## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

The Copperhead is an excellent skinny water flats boat.. might be a little crowded with 3-4 people in choppy conditions. The SUV (Sport Utility Vessel) is just that.. will accomodate a broader range of conditions with perhaps a bit more comfort with mulitple passengers. I've fished it real shallow, and have had it out in the ocean, albeit on very nice days. I did go out south of Big Pine Key in 20 knot plus wind with big chop last August and still felt relatively dry and comfortable. I usually go out with just myself and my wife, but had a third on board last week in Ft. Pierce.. all comfortable. I ordered mine "full Monty", with center console, live well, excellent storage, remote control trolling motor, poling platform, all aluminum Float On trailer.. etc. etc. the price was incredible. If you're OK with 30-34 MPH it's the one to have. If you want to go over 40, you should look for something else. Call Mel or Erin @ 772-579-7214. I am not a rep. (I don't think they have any)..just a happy customer. Good luck


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

1. Looking to buy used or new? General budget?
2. Do you plan on guiding out of this boat?
3. In ft myers/sanibel area do you plan on fishing beaches/boca grande/sanibel bridge area during tarpon season or more shallow water fishing in Matlacha/Estero bay areas?


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## Luke_WL. (Nov 28, 2012)

I am open to new or used. I want the boat asap but I am not going to settle for something that isnt what I want so I can wait. I will eventually guide out of the boat once I know the area well... I plan on fishing the tarpon season on the beach side of captiva but I did so on a hpx-t this year and it was do-able. Budget I would like to keep under 35. The more under that the better obviously.


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## kylepyro (Oct 27, 2010)

I've been very happy with my Bohemian. Does all those things just fine. ;D


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Heres what I would suggest to you in order:

New: East Cape Fury, Bohemian 17, Ankona Cayenne

Used: Hells Bay 17.8, Maverick HPXV 17, Dolphin superskiff 16. 


I seperate new from used only to fit around your budget. The ones as NEW can be purchased for under 35k and used cannot. 

For what your looking to do I dont think an any Egret model will not suit your needs. They ride great in a chop but are heavy and draft a ton. They are NO fun to pole. Also, stay away from ranger poling skiffs. They pole like barges. The Ankona copperhead gen 2, suv 17 and lostmen will not be fun running beaches and passes during tarpon season. 

I say HPXV vs the HPXT because the V is better suited for fishing off beaches and passes. The tunnel hull only benefits you if you need to run LONGGG areas of under a foot of water. I would def suggest the HPXV with a 70 vs the 90. Will get you the draft you want and still moves in upper 30's. 

The dolphin super skiff is under your 16' request but only by 2". Its 15'10" but it rides like a longer and bigger skiff. Also suggest with a 70 hp. Same reason as HPX. 

The bohemian skiff is a great boat from what Ive seen and heard. Only thing is that there are not that many around so its not really proven. 

The Ankona Cayenne is also a good skiff from what I have seen and heard. Of all the skiffs mentioned it will have the lower level fit and finish but it will perfom comparable to the others. My only knock is the tunnel hull on it. I dont know why Ankona insists on having tunnels on their new skiffs. MAKE AN 18 SHADOWCASTWITH NO TUNNEL!!!

Then we have the EC Fury and HB 17.8 Professional. These 2 skiffs IMO are the most versatile skiffs on the market. Give you the ability to fish in sub 7" water but still have the ability to run open water without getting your brain beat in and getting soaked. I think the 17.8 will give slighty better ride but the Fury will be drier. I think the 17.8 is a prettier looking skiff but the Fury has a better layout for guiding. Of all the skiffs I mentioned these are my 2 favorites. Fury might edge the 17.8 because you can get one BRAND NEW with every detail customized to your liking for under 35k while the 17.8 you would have to get used.

I would also suggest the HB marquesa and EC Vantage but I think those would be a little on the large side of what your looking for. They are 8-10" boats and require more HP and more effort in poling then boats Ive mentioned. 

Goodluck


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## Grant (May 6, 2009)

These guys are out of Palmetto. I have not seen this boat in person, I own a BT3 Signature Series. I really like it.

I think their new one meets all your criteria.
http://www.beavertailskiffs.com/?page_id=340
Might want to check it out. There are several guides up that way running Beavertails. 

fltsfshr


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## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

snookintime offers an interesting and rather comprehensive review and comparison.. enjoyed reading it myself. Might add that the Ankona Native SUV 17 has a sharp entry to handle chop, a relatively flat bottom at the stern for shallow draft, but no tunnel. The fit and finish..at least on mine.. is up to par with most, and definitley better than some. I've enjoyed the exchange.. very informative.


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## Luke_WL. (Nov 28, 2012)

Snookintime, That was a great comparison thank you! I really like the look of the Fury, I gave them a call to get some more info. The BT3 actually looks like it would be a good choice too, how are they fit and finish? I have to say, I love this site!


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

I would put the BT3 more in the Vantage and Marquesa class because of its 82" beam. I just dont think it would ride as good as either, BUT its not a bad boat. I like the looks of the new Strike but I dont know how it would handle open water. I think it would be more comparable to a Lostmen/HB Waterman with its drop nose and flat transom. If I had to choose a beavertail skiff for what you are looking for I would suggest the Vengeance. At 78" beam its still a little wider then I like but I think its beavertail best skiff. I tend to prefer narrower skiffs. I have an EC caimen and at 61" beam I love it. It just glides through the water.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I'd go for a Marquesa or a HPX V. But I have never seen a Fury in person. I'll check it out at the Miami Boat Show. Kevin and them build probably the sexiest looking boats.


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## fishy82 (Nov 6, 2011)

I def agree with snookintime on the ranger. Poles like a barge might even be a bit of an understatement. You really have to lean into it to get it going. Great trolling motor boat as they have a ton of deck space.

Biggest bang for the buck IMO is the hpx. If you are relatively patient, you can pick up a clean used one for mid 20's. I test drove and almost bought a new hpx with a Yamaha 115 two stroke a couple years ago. Saw around 55 with a super light load, but it needed tabs all through the rpm range. The 70 high thrust or a used boat with a 90 2stroke would be sweet. An hpxt with a 70 2stroke would also be nice as well. My next boat for fishing jax/ st A will be an hpx.

One of my guide buddies used to run a beavertail and loved it. He had a redfisher for more open water days and the B2 for the skinny. I have no experience with ECC, but they do look sweet. 

As snookintime stated, the egret is a heavier hull. I would say draft would be similar the action craft coastline models. They are one heck of a ride though. Dry, fast and do a lot of things really well, but as stated, are heavier than most of the others previously mentioned.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

> Heres what I would suggest to you in order:
> 
> New: East Cape Fury, Bohemian 17, Ankona Cayenne
> 
> ...


Holy crap! Its like your inside my head!!

Get ;D out!!


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## rdiersing (Oct 7, 2012)

Hey Luke

Let me know if you want to wet test my boat. Capt Gregg is local too and sure he would be happy to get you a wet test on his Beavertail BT3 and there is a used ECC Fury at ft Myers marine too.  I tested the Bohemian, Ghost, Fury, Vantage, BT3 and a few others before I found the boat that did everything I needed it too.  Send me a PM if your interested. I'm in Cape Coral and so is capt Gregg


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Justin L makes a good point about his buddy having a red fisher for the open water days and then the B2 for the skinny days. If I had a 35k budget that would definatley be something I would consider. 

You could get something like an older used Maverick Master angler/Action Craft/Lake & Bay/Release/Dolphin backcountry/Egret for those open water days where your chasing tarpon off the beaches and passes/ocean side in the keys. Also, for those booze cruise days just taking friends and family out to the sand bar or beach. These are more "flats boats" which will give you the ability to run open water with ease and still have the ability to somehwat pole it. Wont be fun to pole but it can be done. 

Then you get yourself a used poling skiff for those pure skinny water fishing days with just 1 other fishing partner. Maybe something like a HB gladeskiff/Whipray, EC Caimen/Lostmen, Ankona Copperhead (or maybe a 18 shadowcast IF THEY MAKE IT WITHOUT A TUNNEL!!), or a Beavertail B2. Something really no frills, maybe even a tiller if thats something you like. These can be found on the used market from 14k-20k with exception to the ankonas that can be purchased new in that price range but with a slightly lower finish quality. 

In response to SurfFishr, yes the SUV 17 is definatley a great little boat and at a hell of a price point. Its does have a very sharp entry but that nose becomes flat very quickly, just like the lostmen and so many other technical poling skiffs. I just dont think it would be a good skiff to be running through Boca Grande pass or along the beaches for tarpon. Idealy beach and pass fishing is done on a bay boat/big flats boat but those of us who like to stalk tarpon and catch them as a challenge have to sacrafice by using smaller boats. As to the finish, Ive seen a couple SUV 17's and I cant say I thought their finish quality was anywhere near as good as HB, East Cape, Maverick, Or Dolphin. I still think they are good skiffs but not to finish quality of those mentioned. BUT you do get what you pay for, and the SUV being half the price or more of those metioned theres nothing wrong with the finish quality not being on par with a Hells Bay. The SUV is a super deal along with others in Ankona lineup. 

I also know that the SUV does not have a tunnel, I was refering to the Cayenne and Shadowcast. I just dont understand why these skiffs cant be offered without the tunnel. The tunnel adds atleast an inch maybe 2 to their at rest draft. I see pictures of the 16 shadowcast with a 15 hp on the rear and no one in the skiff and its squating like crazy.I think the 18 shadowcast if offered with NO tunnel would be a great little skiff. The "Poor Mans Gladeskiff" like ive seen some post on here before. I know EC has the ability to drop the tunnel option into their skiffs I just dont see why the tunnel isnt just an "OPTION" vs the only way it comes on these 2 skiffs.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Luke, ive re read your posts and the Marquesa may fit your needs. Its just that you said you were worried about the HPX 17 not being able to float in the "skinny" areas you like to get to. An HPX17 w/ 70 hp drafts a less then a Marquesa. But if an 8-10" draft works for you then I would def suggest to look for a used Marquesa w/ 90, EC Vantage w/ 90, or HPX 18 w/ 90. If I was strictly a tarpon fisherman I would own one of these. 

Could also throw in there the new HB Biscayne but will be tough to find one used. 

Think ive expanded your original request for a comparison of boats to over 15 boats. LMAO. Probably have just confused more then when you first started the thread. 

My new list:

Tarpon Skiffs (8-10" draft, wider boats= more effort in poling. Have deep transom deadrise for great ride in open water, harder to spin then skiffs listed further below, can handle 3' chop no problems, can fish 4)
- HB Marquesa
- EC Vantage
- Maverick HPX 18
- Dolphin 17 Superskiff

Hybrid Skiff (6-8" draft, sharp entry that contiues deadirse moving back for good ride, dry ride, pole fairly easy, the do it all boats, can keep you safe in 3' chop but wil get a little wet and beat up, can fish 3)
- EC Fury
- HB 17.8(Professional)
- Maverick HPX 17
- Islamordsa 18 (SUPER EXPENSIVE!!!)
- Bohemian 17
- Dolphin Superskiff 16
- Ankona Cayenne

Poling Skiffs (5-6" draft, also sharp entry but becomes flat fairly quickly with decent ride, dead silent/no hull slap, little effort in poling the boat, spin easily, can handle 2-3' chop but will get wet and beat up, can fish 3)
- EC Lostmen
- HB Waterman
- Ankona SUV 17
- Beavertail B2
- HPX 17 Tunnel
- Beavertail Strike

Technical/Niche Skiffs (3-5" draft, entry but becomes flat quickly, dead silent/no hull slap, no effort in poling, tracks straight as an arrow, on the smaller size, can fish 2 comfortably and some can fish 3 but you have to like each other, can handle 2' chop)
- EC Caimen
- EC Gladesman
- HB Gladeskiff
- HB Whipray
- Ankona Copperhead
- Ankona Shadowcast
- HPX 15 Micro

And officially I am crazy for writing all of this. If only the wind would ever die down so I could get out and do some fishing so I wouldnt be here writing this like a mad man. ;D

cut runner, how am I in your head???


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I'll put up the finish quality of my Copperhead vs your Caimen......... 
And the finish compared to a maverick, too. Open up my hatches and see how clean it is compared to an HPX where you see all the fiberglass and gas tank and wires everywhere. Smooth molded gelcoat compartments on the Copperhead. No bare glass, nor brushed gelcoat. smooth compartments pulled from a mold. 



Everything else seems accurate. Except the HPX 15 is bigger than a HPX Micro, which is a 16'9 to be exact. The 15 is actually a V, not a Micro. 

And I think the Shadowcast, Gladesmen, Gladeskiff, deserve a category of their own. specialty skiffs for 2 anglers. Not much power required to push them pretty good. 


should be:
Whipray
Copperhead
Caimen
HPX Micro (17)

in the 40-60hp outboard range


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## Grant (May 6, 2009)

> Luke, ive re read your posts and the Marquesa may fit your needs. Its just that you said you were worried about the HPX 17 not being able to float in the "skinny" areas you like to get to. An HPX17 w/ 70 hp drafts a less then a Marquesa. But if an 8-10" draft works for you then I would def suggest to look for a used Marquesa w/ 90, EC Vantage w/ 90, or HPX 18 w/ 90. If I was strictly a tarpon fisherman I would own one of these.
> 
> Could also throw in there the new HB Biscayne but will be tough to find one used.
> 
> ...


Wow That's quite a detailed definitive review. Have you fished all those boats or are you compiling data from elsewhere? 

Thanks for the info.

fltsfshr


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## Luke_WL. (Nov 28, 2012)

Snookin thank you again for a great writeup! I want to stick with one boat for the moment, I do want a small technical skiff once I am down there full time that I can get very very skinny with but that is down the road. It looks like an EC Fury or the used HPX17 are at the top of the list at the moment. I have talked to Kevin at EC and waiting to hear back and I will go wet test a boat as soon as I get down there! Very excited. If anyone wants to take a flamingo trip in mid december hit me up! lol


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## justapedaller (Jan 21, 2012)

Luke, I'm very near St Augustine and I'd be more than happy to have you out in my Fury when you're down. Shoot me a pm. Tony


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

> I also know that the SUV does not have a tunnel, I was refering to the Cayenne and Shadowcast. I just dont understand why these skiffs cant be offered without the tunnel. The tunnel adds atleast an inch maybe 2 to their at rest draft. I see pictures of the 16 shadowcast with a 15 hp on the rear and no one in the skiff and its squating like crazy.I think the 18 shadowcast if offered with NO tunnel would be a great little skiff.


No love for the Cayenne, man.   I've completely solved my squatting problem on my Cayenne...I walk up on the bow and fish.  ;D  However, I don't disagree with what you have previously stated.


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## Capt. Gregg McKee (Sep 28, 2007)

Since you're in the Ft. Myers area you should stop by the Olde Fish House Marina in Matlacha on Dec. 15th.  The entire line of Beavertail Siffs will be there for an open house day and free demo rides from 12 to 5pm.  I'll have my BT3 in the water as well as a brand new Stike, which is currently my favorite skiff on the market.  The Strike will do everything you want and a fully loaded boat will still come in at less than $35k and you can get it delivered in around six weeks.


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## narwhal (Jul 4, 2012)

> Since you're in the Ft. Myers area you should stop by the Olde Fish House Marina in Matlacha on Dec. 15th.  The entire line of Beavertail Siffs will be there for an open house day and free demo rides from 12 to 5pm.  I'll have my BT3 in the water as well as a brand new Stike, which is currently my favorite skiff on the market.  The Strike will do everything you want and a fully loaded boat will still come in at less than $35k and you can get it delivered in around six weeks.


All this info has been exactly the stuff I have been pondering in my own search for a boat.

I may have to try to head up there next week to check out the Strike!


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## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

Beavertail vengence fits your bill perfectly - not very well known, but a true 7" draft boat that rides better than most things out there.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Kinda hard to find a shallow skiff that is capable in running the beach on all but the calmest/flat days. I'd narrow your focus on what you plan on doing 95% of the time and maybe find another captain that can handle your beach charters for a commission or try and find something like a Pathfinder as your 2nd ride.


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## Taterides (Nov 10, 2008)

You can get a used HB Guide easy in that budget. Probably in the low 20's. You mentioned carrying 4 people. It is also Coast Guard rated for 4 people. Most mentioned are not. It can run open reasonably well and still get skinny.

The Bohemian is a nice set up. Nice ride, poles awesome. Have spent some time on one. 

Just my opinion. Good Luck.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

Best piece of advice you can get on this site, 

Wet test, wet test wet test.

Take what you read with a grain of salt on any forum, and do your due diligence so you get the boat that fits your needs.
What I would do is take all the names that have been thrown out there and start online with the manufactures website, narrow it down then make phone calls to set up wet test, any respectable manufacturer will have the ability to provide you with a wet test either factory direct or through a dealer. If they fail to provide this task, they would no longer be on my list. 
Also try to pick the worst days to wet test because every boat rides good when it’s pretty out. Some of the info you will get from sales people, owners, and internet gurus is either plain false, over exaggerated, or based off what they have read other than real life experience. 

With your budget my short list would be,
Maverick boats, ECC, Bohemian boats, Hells bay, and Beavertail skiffs, I have never been on a ECC, Bohemian, or Beavertail skiff.   But by the videos and things I have read I would want to see one in person and wet test (They may not fit any of your needs, don’t know that’s why you have to wet test). Notice I didn’t list any models as I think you should wet test any model the builder makes that will fit your needs and use the process of elimination to find the one that fits the majority of your needs as no skiff will fit all of them.
Good luck with your search
Tight Lines


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I was impressed running in a nasty chop in a Bohemien through Tampa Bay in a 20+ knot wind. Poled nicely, too. I was running my Copperhead in the same snotty conditions, just not as comfortable.


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## rdiersing (Oct 7, 2012)

> Best piece of advice you can get on this site,
> 
> Wet test, wet test wet test.
> 
> ...


AMEN to that


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## KeepingItSimple (Mar 20, 2011)

Enjoying reading the opinions. I've seen the rec for a two boat setup on other similar threads in the past. At first glance it seems a little silly but I think there's some wisdom there. Yes, there will be two tax bills, two maintenance bills, two spots in the driveway, etc, but what it gains is the functionality that all this banter is trying to solve. That is, the back and forth and lamenting over what is the One Boat is tilting on the desire to get One Boat to do it all. And we all know that One Boat can't (ergo the ridicule of the boast of a TPS in 3ft chop). As I contemplate Charleston, for instance, there's skinny mud flats in Bulls Bay, high tide grass fishing in the late spring and narrow creeks with winter reds. All best served with a flat bottomed skiff. On the other hand, there's jetty fishing for bull reds, crossing the harbor, and tarpon in the inlets, not to mention pulling the tube and motoring to the local pub. These are best with a 17-19ft full-length v boat. So, the combination of what might be termed a big flats boat or a bay boat with a TPS/flat bottom lightweight skiff would be ideal. You can't get One Boat to do it all (well). If you try there will be compromises.


Alex V


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

I like what Snookin said. With that big of a budget you need 2 boats to do all you are asking. Unless you plan to stay in the creeks or ICW in StA or the channels in the Keys. Then a HB Marquesa,ECC Vantage.Ect. If you want to chase tailing reds up into the spartina on flood tides. Or bonefish in the Keys. Or sightfish sook into a back water lagoon. You will need a very shallow draft. Like a ECC Lostmen. I am amazed still at how skinny some fish will go. I have seen slender bones with thier fins sticking out of the water in 3 inches. And big reds walloring around in the mud with thier backs out. Then get yourself a safer center console with a large load capacity for your bigger charters. Something that can carry 4-6 clients. Which means more $ for you. Most of the flats charters will be 1 -2 clients. Then you can have just about any option available to you. No matter what the weather brings at you. Or whats running that particular month. Or what your clients want to do. Its actually pretty common for a inshore guide to have 2 boats for this vary reason. I dont care what any add hype says. There is not one boat that can do it all. Atleast not yet.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

PIB, I did say that the finish is "slightly" less in quality, which means that its really of minor importtance. The few things that Ive seen on the copperheads vs other manufacterus (HB, EC, Dolphin, Maverick) are not really that big of a deal to me. Its just little things here and there that im not impressed with and are not up to par with the finish that other manufacteurs offer IMO. And when I say "finish" I am really refering to the entire finished product of a boat not just the way the fiberglass and non skid look. I probably should have been more clear when I said that. I am looking at the wiring, instalation of accessories/motor, poling platoform, quality of products used, center console, functionability, the trailer, and fiberglass finish. BUT like I said, just little things, nothing major.

Just to ad something, the Copperhead and Cayenne are finished to a different level then the SUV's and Shadowcast. The Copperhead and Cayenne can compare in fit and finish to other manufacteurs mentioned BUT NOT the Shadowcast and SUV. But like ive said before theres nothing wrong with that. They are still great boats. 

 Yes, you are right about the 17' and 15' HPX's. My mistake, 17 is the Micro and the 15 is a V, but the 17 is still a bigger boat. The 15 has a more comfortable ride but they are probably the same in the "WET" category with a possible slight advantage to the 17 because it is just simply a larger boat. But Ive yet to ride in a 15 so i cant be sure. The 17 micro is a skinny boat.

I also agree that the Gladesman, Gladeskiff, and Shadowcast should have there own specialty category. I was going to do it but just didnt feel like adding another category. I had to stop or I was just gonna keep going and going making even another category for gheenoes and the HB Skate. And then another for kayaks and canoes.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

lol You know I'm just busting your chops. But finish usually means the finish. the appearance of the surface and hatches and all that. Not the way the boat is finished or completed. The trailers for the Ankona's are options. From going all out bells and whistles, to going with a cheap trailer that just gets the job done. I can say the wiring probably doesn't look as clean as organized as others, but it's still clean wiring. Just everything is into a loom, rather than super clean looking individual wires ran and fitted to appear like a wiring diagram for a space craft. And I love my small center console. there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Just like everything else at Ankona, everything is an option. They offer several consoles as there are several options for each aspect of their skiffs. 

Your facts about the fit and finish on both the Copperhead and Cayenne being superior to the SUV and ShadowCast are on point. With that said, those two models are still far superior to the fit and finish on other similar skiffs on the market. But that's all part of the price point. If the skiff is costing you less than the next skiff, it's for a reason. If they were to go and mold everything on those models, the price would probably close to double. 


The HPX Micro is one of the skiffs that I've spent the most time on. That, and the HPX Tunnel. Both are excellent skiffs. The Micro rides better than the Tunnel, and floats shallower. It also poles easier. You'd be surprised as to how good it will run across Biscayne Bay with a east wind at 25 knots. But the 15 should run better in the same conditions since it's got a sharper and deeper V entry. Not flat like the others. I have fished an HPX 18, too. And although it does float relatively skinny, it doesn't come close to the maneuverability as the other HPX models. It lags when one begins to spin the skiff to chase down fish. I can be done, one just has to get used to the skiff taking a second to respond to what you're doing. But, it is the best riding skiff I've ever ridden. I did have to hop off of it in Flamingo to push it across some shoals, though. In about 8" of water. But I would be lying to you if I said I hadn't had to do that in the HPX 17 Tunnel, too. 

I have fished and poled both the Dolphin Renegade and Super Skiff. The Renegade rode terribly. I have never gotten pounded on a skiff crossing a basin in a 15knot wind like I did in the Renegade. The only thing I can kind of compare it to was the ride of the Terrapin Skiff. But you'd expect the Terrapin Skiff to ride like that because of what it is, and what it was designed to do. The Renegade surprised me as to how bad it rode. It did well on pole, though. On the other hand, the Super Skiff runs great, and poles very very good. I expected the Super Skiff to pole worst than it did. I was surprised as to how well it poles. 
The Caimen's pole great. A little tippier than I would like for a skiff of it's size, but it makes up for it in how great it poles. They look bad ass, too. Kinda felt like it plowed into waves, though. For it handles the chop better by dropping the nose into the waves and letting the spray rails do their job. Rather than riding on top of the chop. But the spray rails do their job pretty well. 

The Bohemien poles pretty good for a boat of it's size. I was surprised to the drafting ability. I expected it to draft more, due to the stepped hull. But it can get pretty skinny for such a large skiff. Fit and Finish is a 10. Runs a chop with the best of them. I did get sprayed a few times, but running 35mph in a nasty Tampa Bay slop, that's bound to happen in any skiff. I got wet on my Copperhead that very day, too.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

Same experience here on a dolphin renegade, really rough ride. Superskiff is complete opposite, rides geat, dry, and actually tracks straighter then the renegade because deep v. Superskiff just needs a lot more water to pole, little more effort in pushing it, and doesnt spin as quick. 

Also agree that although the SUV and Shadowcast have much better fit and finish then other budget skiffs in the market. I have never understood why someone would pay $10,000 and more for a Gheenoe LT 25 when they could get a bare bones copperhead or decent outfitted SUV for the same price. LT 25 is a great little boat, I owned one and I loved it, but not for $10,000 plus IMO. SUV has better fit and finish then ever the prettiest of LT 25's out there. Same with IPB, I was about to get one untill I saw how it was finished and essentially put together with glue.

I have yet to fish the Bohemian but I definatley want too. I remeber seeing it at the boat show I think 2 or 3 years ago when it first came out. Beautifulllll boat. I think it would make a great Biscayne/Keys boat.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

> > Luke, ive re read your posts and the Marquesa may fit your needs. Its just that you said you were worried about the HPX 17 not being able to float in the "skinny" areas you like to get to. An HPX17 w/ 70 hp drafts a less then a Marquesa. But if an 8-10" draft works for you then I would def suggest to look for a used Marquesa w/ 90, EC Vantage w/ 90, or HPX 18 w/ 90. If I was strictly a tarpon fisherman I would own one of these.
> >
> > Could also throw in there the new HB Biscayne but will be tough to find one used.
> >
> ...


fltsfshr, I have not ridden all of them but I have fished many of them and the ones I havent ridden I have atleast seen in person at the ramp or boat show and inspected. I have also done extensive research on all of them. I find the science of skiffs and skiff building very interesting. Also, for the most part they all share common characteristics which will all perform similarly. So, if I see something on a skiff that I have not rode on that is close to or the same to a characteristic on a skiff I have been on I can get a good idea on how it would perform. Same thing with dimensions, a skiff with less then 70" beam will glide through the water while something with an 80" plus beam will need much more effort. A 15' skiff will spin much faster then a 19'.


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## kylepyro (Oct 27, 2010)

> I have yet to fish the Bohemian but I definatley want too. I remeber seeing it at the boat show I think 2 or 3 years ago when it first came out. Beautifulllll boat. I think it would make a great Biscayne/Keys boat.


I've got a Flamingo trip penciled into March. We could work something out. ;D


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

You know, the super skiff I've fished poled as good and easily as the renegade I've fished. But then again, the renegade had a 70 Yamaha on it. And the super skiff had a 50 Honda on it. Maybe the smaller motor made the difference. But the super skiff poled pretty easily. And surprisingly shallow. I was fishing super shallow winter tides way up in the Bights perfectly. 

The only skiffs I've had to jump out of and walk/push across a flat was a HPX tunnel, and a HPX 18. 






> Same experience here on a dolphin renegade, really rough ride. Superskiff is complete opposite, rides geat, dry, and actually tracks straighter then the renegade because deep v. Superskiff just needs a lot more water to pole, little more effort in pushing it, and doesnt spin as quick.
> 
> Also agree that although the SUV and Shadowcast have much better fit and finish then other budget skiffs in the market. I have never understood why someone would pay $10,000 and more for a Gheenoe LT 25 when they could get a bare bones copperhead or decent outfitted SUV for the same price. LT 25 is a great little boat, I owned one and I loved it, but not for $10,000 plus IMO. SUV has better fit and finish then ever the prettiest of LT 25's out there. Same with IPB, I was about to get one untill I saw how it was finished and essentially put together with glue.
> 
> I have yet to fish the Bohemian but I definatley want too. I remeber seeing it at the boat show I think 2 or 3 years ago when it first came out. Beautifulllll boat. I think it would make a great Biscayne/Keys boat.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

> Snookin thank you again for a great writeup! I want to stick with one boat for the moment, I do want a small technical skiff once I am down there full time that I can get very very skinny with but that is down the road.  It looks like an EC Fury or the used HPX17 are at the top of the list at the moment.  I have talked to Kevin at EC and waiting to hear back and I will go wet test a boat as soon as I get down there! Very excited.  If anyone wants to take a flamingo trip in mid december hit me up! lol


- Drier: Fury
- Smoother ride: HPX
- Faster: HPX (w/ same HP)
- Draft: Fury (w/ same HP)
- Layout/Storage: Fury (love the furys front glove box/cooler. also HPX front deck is tiny. Not enough room for a casting platform and trolling motor without casting platform preventing front hatch from opening. Fury front deck is huge.)
- Holeshot: Fury
- Straight tracking: Fury
- Spining: HPX
- Motor option: Fury (Maverick sold their soul to the Yamaha. Yamaha's are great motors but you may not like them)
- Trailer: Fury (Ramlin trailer is best trailer ever made)
- Push pole clips: HPX (have the really cool flip up ones. just hope they never get jammed)
- Stability: Same (maybe slight edge to HPX at a few inches wider.)
- Customer service: Fury (the boat is made FOR YOU. Its customized in every detail to your liking and Marc and Kevin do everything and anything to make their customers happy. Even if you buy used they treat you like just like if you were buying a brand new boat and I know this first hand. At Maverick, good luck ever talking with the owner)
- Re-sale: Right now I would say HPX but that may change very soon. Fury is relatively new to the market only being in production for I think 1 1/2-2 years but they have already made a lot of boats so the word and popularity is spreading. 

Im open to a Flamingo trip anytime! Just let me know when and pray its not blowing.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

> > I have yet to fish the Bohemian but I definatley want too. I remeber seeing it at the boat show I think 2 or 3 years ago when it first came out. Beautifulllll boat. I think it would make a great Biscayne/Keys boat.
> 
> 
> I've got a Flamingo trip penciled into March. We could work something out.  ;D


Definatley! Let me know!


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Those fancy pop up push pole holders on the mavericks go bad often. They don't jam. They tend to disconnect from each other. When you pop one up, they're all supposed to come up simultaneously. But often, the linkage comes loose. Making it a pain in the anus to have to hold one up while popping the other two up and hook on the pole. 

HPX slide around turns like if you were in the competitive drifting circuit. That is retarded what you said about trolling motor and casting platform. My buddy had the biggest casting platform possible on his HPX with a big ol Minn Kota on the bow, too.


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## narwhal (Jul 4, 2012)

Man, I feel like I really need to see a Bohemian after this thread and after seeing some pics and write ups of it.

My short list for a while has included Fury, HPX-V and recently beavertail. Of course sometimes I start to lean more towards the smaller less expensive skiffs as well.

I also don;t understand why the shadowcast 18 and Cayenne have tunnels.


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## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

Luke WL started this thread, which turned out to be one of the most comprehensive and interesting I have read. However, we have not heard from Luke for a couple of days, and I am afraid his head exploded while trying to process all this information.


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## justapedaller (Jan 21, 2012)

Snookin time, I really enjoyed your writeup as well.. There truly are quite a few sick skiffs out today, each loaded w innovative features and characteristics.. in the end something for everyone.

I won't preach about my ride (altho it's badarse ) I will second your comment on the customer service at East Cape. My experience has been getting in touch w them is only a phone call away.. That speaks volumes to me about how much EC values their customer and the product they're puttin out..


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Hang in there Luke!

The Bohemian is an incredible boat, I saw it at the Tampa boat show and talked to Robert for an hour. However, isn't it too a pocket tunnel??? It sure looks like it when viewing the build pics in the Commercial section.


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## Luke_WL. (Nov 28, 2012)

Im still here guys! I have been talking to and setting up wet tests for when I get back to Fl. I will make sure to take photos and give detailed write ups once I get them in the water! I have said it before but this site is great, I have been contacted by multiple owners/manufacturers already and it has helped hugely.


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## kylepyro (Oct 27, 2010)

> Hang in there Luke!
> 
> The Bohemian is an incredible boat, I saw it at the Tampa boat show and talked to Robert for an hour. However, isn't it too a pocket tunnel??? It sure looks like it when viewing the build pics in the Commercial section.


I don't think so, but I understand how you could conclude that. I can't say that I'm 100% clear on exactly what constitutes a "pocket" tunnel The running pad ends a couple of inches before the transom and there is a tiny pocket where a couple of thru hull fittings goes.

Here is a pic from one of the early builds.










This might actually be my hull which is #3. I'm not sure when Richard took these but they existed before my boat was complete.

Here is the original thread if you want to read further.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1276915123/0

Robert and I talk every few months and I'm going to take my boat back for a few changes this winter. 

Robert has always been great to deal with and I now have a pretty regular correspondence going with Kameron - his son.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

> Those fancy pop up push pole holders on the mavericks go bad often. They don't jam. They tend to disconnect from each other. When you pop one up, they're all supposed to come up simultaneously. But often, the linkage comes loose. Making it a pain in the anus to have to hold one up while popping the other two up and hook on the pole.
> 
> HPX slide around turns like if you were in the competitive drifting circuit. That is retarded what you said about trolling motor and casting platform. My buddy had the biggest casting platform possible on his HPX with a big ol Minn Kota on the bow, too.


If your talking about the HPX I think your talking about, yea he does have a huge casting platofrm and trolling motor but its an I Pilot or whatever they are called and he has it mounted at an amgle where the shaft and brain of the unit are left sticking off the edge of the boat. It leaves it vulnerable when you are up against a dock to getting hit and damaged. I havent actually fished on that boat but got a glimpse of it one time at the ramp in Flamingo and actually saw this picture on the MBC forum on a for sale post. It may be the angle of the picture but it definatley looks like its sticking of the side of the boat quite a bit. A bow mount hand steer motor would not fit with that set up. A combination of a shorter deck overall and a more narrow taper at the point the 17 HPX's have less room to work with in front of the hatch then the Fury.








[/img]

This picture shows space available with bow mount troller set up. Not much. 








[/img]

I will say I did some searching and came across 1 HPX that had a regular bow mount hand steer trolling motor with the casting platform mounted right behind it. It is possible I just had never seen it done until today after a lot of searching. Sorry for the small picture. I stand corrected. It is not impossible. Truth is that neither boat has big enough deck to fit anything but a small platform behind the trolling motor and in front of the hatch. Most Furys with trolling motors opt for a large casting platform on top of the front hatch. 








[/img]


This is what I had seen/heard the issue was before: 








[/img]


Same set up as the first picture with Minn kota I pilot with casting platform right behind it. Trolling motor is not sticking off the edge. (This is a Lostmen but have same deck as Fury)








[/img]








[/img]

Heres another set up:








[/img]


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## swampfox (May 9, 2007)

[quote 

I won't preach about my ride (altho it's badarse  ) I will second your comment on the customer service at East Cape. My experience has been getting in touch w them is only a phone call away.. That speaks volumes to me about how much EC values their customer and the product they're puttin out..[/quote]

X3 or whatever about the service from ECC. I got my boat second hand. And they treated me like I had just dropped $40k with em. And went out of thier way to fix a issue that was not thier fault. While I waited. Free of charge! 



Luke what do you think a "normal" day of fishing will entail?


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> > Those fancy pop up push pole holders on the mavericks go bad often. They don't jam. They tend to disconnect from each other. When you pop one up, they're all supposed to come up simultaneously. But often, the linkage comes loose. Making it a pain in the anus to have to hold one up while popping the other two up and hook on the pole.
> >
> > HPX slide around turns like if you were in the competitive drifting circuit. That is retarded what you said about trolling motor and casting platform. My buddy had the biggest casting platform possible on his HPX with a big ol Minn Kota on the bow, too.
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter what kind of trolling motor it is. you said you cannot fit both, and that's false information.


> - Layout/Storage: Fury (love the furys front glove box/cooler. also HPX front deck is tiny. *Not enough room for a casting platform and trolling motor without casting platform preventing front hatch from opening.* Fury front deck is huge.)


 You proved that both fit by showing the picture of my friends boat that he just sold. And I guaranty  there's plenty others out there that have a casting platform half the size of that with a trolling motor on there as well. 


Anything that I state, is from first hand knowledge. I don't make assumptions, then post about it on a forum.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2010)

*I will say I did some searching and came across 1 HPX that had a regular bow mount hand steer trolling motor with the casting platform mounted right behind it. It is possible I just had never seen it done until today after a lot of searching. Sorry for the small picture. I stand corrected. *

guess you didnt read that part. I STAND CORRECTED. But yes I put a picture of your friends skiff to show that i was WRONG. When i saw a picture that I was wrong I decided to show that. But, from the 3 different HPX's I have been on, THAT I HAVE SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES, with the casting platform set up they had it would not be possible to have a trolling motor in the same space. Until today I had never seen an HPX with a trolling motor and casting platform in front of the hatch that was installed correctly. NOW I KNOW.

The picture of your friends HPX shows that the trolling motor doesnt fit properly. It sticks of the side of the boat by a foot. If it was not angled like that it would not fit. One day it will be ripped off or damaged because of the position its in. A bow mount hand steer motor would not fit either. Just because something fits does not mean it has been done correctly. BUT again I posted the picture to show I was wrong.

I dont how I can admit being wrong more then putting multiple pictures of it.

And contrary to what you probably think Im not here to say that EC is far superior to anything else and that they make perfect boats and nothing else can compare. I like EC and thats why I own one, but that doesnt mean I am going to just flat out lie to people and make false statements. East Cape has good things about them and some bad things about them just like all the manufacteurs. I could have said fury, fury, fury but I didnt because that would be all false. The HPXV 17 is a bad ass skiff and it would be on my top 5 list if I was looking for a pure Keys/Biscayne boat. But just like every other skiff out there it does have some cons. 


Lastly, Im not here to misinform people. Sorry if Im not dead on with everything I say but I am by no means an expert just someone who has a passion for skinny water fishing and the boats and tools we use. I just hate hate when people come here to get information/opinions when they are genuinley serious about purchasing a skiff and the only thing people on this forum can say is Beavertail! or Hells Bay!! or Mitzi!! or Gheenoe!! or Ankona!! Or East Cape!! or Maverick!! The actual questioned is not even considered and forum members just post whatever manufacteur they like most without a single piece of information to explain why that skiff may work best. My comments on this specific thread have been focused towards providing the OP an extensive amount of information and overview of many different skiffs he can consider. I could have  simplified my life and put the Fury is the best boat for you and ended it at that. But no, I compiled a lot of different skiffs and gave him my best descriptions of each one to try and help the best I could. I dont know exactly what hes looking for in a boat so I gave him quality information on a bunch of different skiffs so he could make a educated decision. The OP then posted again saying he was between the Fury and Maverick HPXV 17. I continued to give a detailed review of both skiffs and which one IMO won in different categories. I provided false information in 1 category. SORRY!! Im sure you never ever ever said anything that wasnt 100% true :

thats all I have for this thread. good luck to you Luke. You will be happy with whichever skiff you pick. 

Last thing, other then the trolling motor issue, is the rest of the information seem accurate?

Eric, trolling motors aside, when we going fishing??????


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## Dillusion (May 21, 2012)

> Those fancy pop up push pole holders on the mavericks go bad often. They don't jam. They tend to disconnect from each other. When you pop one up, they're all supposed to come up simultaneously. But often, the linkage comes loose. Making it a pain in the anus to have to hold one up while popping the other two up and hook on the pole.
> 
> HPX slide around turns like if you were in the competitive drifting circuit. That is retarded what you said about trolling motor and casting platform. My buddy had the biggest casting platform possible on his HPX with a big ol Minn Kota on the bow, too.


I have personally in person seen a maverick pop up clear acrylic push pole holder snap in half when trailering an HPX17...the push pole snagged on the trailers guide on pole and flexed...snapped the push pole holder right in half and almost cut my finger in half when it flew off.

Edit: yes I said personally in person, deal with it.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> *I will say I did some searching and came across 1 HPX that had a regular bow mount hand steer trolling motor with the casting platform mounted right behind it. It is possible I just had never seen it done until today after a lot of searching. Sorry for the small picture. I stand corrected. *
> 
> guess you didnt read that part. I STAND CORRECTED. But yes I put a picture of your friends skiff to show that i was WRONG. When i saw a picture that I was wrong I decided to show that. But, from the 3 different HPX's I have been on, THAT I HAVE SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES, with the casting platform set up they had it would not be possible to have a trolling motor in the same space. Until today I had never seen an HPX with a trolling motor and casting platform in front of the hatch that was installed correctly. NOW I KNOW.
> 
> ...


Just because his trolling motor was angled, and sticking out, doesn't mean it was wrong. The trolling motor doesn't rest on the deck in it's "right" position. So wether or not it's hanging out the side of the skiff (as it does on MANY skiffs) is irrelevant. Hell, look at 99.999% of gheenoe's with trolling motors. That's how it's done. Hanging out the side of the canoe. 

I'm just trying to mess with you. Cause you mofo's don't hit me up to hit the trails anymore. lol I don't know, dude. I want to fish on that fancy Caimen.

I have nothing against ECC. They build some bad ass skiffs. I stated pros and cons of every skiff that I named. I thought I was being fair straight across the board. And I never said you're bias, either. I actually really like what ECC has done to the skiff world. The attention to detail is like no other company.


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## narwhal (Jul 4, 2012)

I have to say that this thread is why I came to this site in teh first place.

I actually seek out the negative views of products. It helps me see the product in a better light. I WANT to know the cons to a product.

I wish we could have more unbiased reviews of skiffs that really delves into the pros AND cons.

It certainly doesn't mean you are knocking a skiff to say a negative thing about it if it is a true statement. A great example is teh Lostmen. My understanding from many sources is that it floats super skinny (especially for the size), poles like a dream, has a massive deck and storage and has amazing fit and finish. However it is a wet boat (yeah I know you can adjust tabs, choose speeds, such and such). That is obviously a negative comment to the boat, but it is a truth that is an acceptable trait of teh boat because it is hard to get the draft and stability any other way. That all goes into teh choosing of that boat. I know someone with one and they will tell yo all day that the boat is wet but they love it for what happens when you shut off the motor!

I fished out of a small waterman this spring. I hated the ride in it. Beat you to hell in a 6in chop. But the damn thing floats in a puddle of spit and poles amazingly well! 

I would love to hear from actual boat owners more about what they DON'T like about their skiffs. We all know that every boat we are talking about is a good, quality boat that fits certain criteria for someone. It would just be nice to hear what they do poorly sometimes. 

Does that make any sense? Not talking about bashing a boat, just realistic reviews. As we all know, you can find lots of glowing amazing reviews out there, but not too many ones that talk about shortcomings.

narwhal

PS- every time I hear more about some of these skiffs it just muddies the damn water for my own skiff selection!


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## rdiersing (Oct 7, 2012)

Push comes to shove all of the skiffs mentioned are more then capable. We each have our preferences based on differences one skiff may have to best fit our individual needs for how and where we prefer to spend out time on the water. 

I don't believe the newer 17 hpx comes with the flip up push pole holders anymore.  I understand that if they break that they are a %@*ch to repair.  I have also heard rumors of something new in the 17' range from MBC may be released next year.

The pocket mentioned on the transom of the Bohemian was designed to increase water flow to the lower unit in hopes of allowing it to run shallow as possible, atleast that's what Robert mentioned to me.


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## rdiersing (Oct 7, 2012)

> I would love to hear from actual boat owners more about what they DON'T like about their skiffs.  We all know that every boat we are talking about is a good, quality boat that fits certain criteria for someone.  It would just be nice to hear what they do poorly sometimes.
> 
> Does that make any sense?  Not talking about bashing a boat, just realistic reviews.


That was part of my search for a skiff and actually gave me great insight when making my decision.  During my process I made sure to wet test each skiff to experience it for myself. I also took a few weeks to contact anyone that had their skiffs up for sale within a year or so of purchase. I talked with skiff owners from Texas, South Carolina and Florida. My reasoning is that who would make such a purchase then dump it that soon unless it did not meet their expectations. Of course it was a numbers game with actually getting someone to open up but if you make enough calls the truth will surface in regards how the skiff didn't live up to what they were sold on.


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## narwhal (Jul 4, 2012)

Exactly! Look at cars. There are lots of negative aspects in reviews for cars. That being said, good cars shine through and are obvious based on what is said both pro and con.

Would love to know more about what that 17' MBC is.


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## luckybone1 (Oct 22, 2012)

I cant understand why anybody would not want a Ankona 18 Shallow Cast without the Tunnel!! What's the point?


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

> I cant understand why anybody would not want a Ankona 18 Shallow Cast without the Tunnel!! What's the point?


3/4" poling draft and an extra 2MPH


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