# Seaducer Advice



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

If I'm feeling lazy I just substitute the rear feathers for fox tail fur.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

That ends up being 99 percent of the time....


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

Love seducer flies, they land quiet, have lots of movement, you can work them slow or fast to entice a bite, one of my favorites.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

el9surf said:


> If I'm feeling lazy I just substitute the rear feathers for fox tail fur.


^What he said x2. I recently picked up some Arctic Marble Fox tail and really like it for Seaducer tails.
View attachment 4639

Both of the 'ducers shown here are Fox, pay no attention to the palmering on the one on the left, I was experimenting with grizzly, over some chenille that I decided was too bulky....... lol but the tail looks ok 

Edit: to answer your original question...., Saddle hackle should give decent movement, try to look and feel the feathers when you buy them, you're looking for feathers that don't have a stiff quill that goes too far toward the tip of the feather. All hackle will be stiff at the butt.... You just want to pick a bundle that has the best qualities for what you're after. Schlappen feathers are located just down bird from the saddle hackle these will typically be wider but again I would go with thinner saddle hackle as it will/should have a more supple quill. Hope that helps.
LH


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Seaducers are a modern version of a very old pattern (the Rhodes Tarpon).. Done traditionally they're entirely done with saddle hackles (both tail and body) and work really well in shallow waters where you're wanting your bug to suspend. Here's a pic of part of an order for a local shop that I did a few years back (I'm no longer tying for any shops...). Typical colors for Seaducers were always red/white, fl. green/white, grizzly/white, Sands colors (the Sands Tarpon is done with a mix of white, yellow, and grizzly - both tail and body... Six tail saddles -three on a side with white, then yellow, then grizzly on the outside). fl. chartreuse grizzly, all natural grizzly, and all Cree.... Mine always come with a wire weedguard, the tail feathers are splayed (form a "vee") and the body uses as much of the "fluff" on each saddle as possible....


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the advice!

@lemaymiami , I had been wondering about feather orientation on the hook. I always associate splayed feathers with crab patterns; I've never thought about using them on shrimpy or fishy patterns. I've got some purple saddle hackles that might make a nice looking seaducer, as well as some grizzly hackle that isn't quite as big (might make a nice shrimp). I'll have to tie a few up and get some feedback from you guys.

Also, is there anything that you can do to straighten the feathers out slightly? Mine end up very splayed, and it seems a little exaggerated to me. I can try to be a little more selective with which feathers I grab from the bunch, I guess.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

First fly I ever tied...
View media item 1366


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Don't worry about the curve on your tail feathers -they'll straighten out dramatically when wet... Typically on a feather tail with no spreader, I'll match the two sides (three feathers each, splayed outwards with the saddles with the most curve on the inside of each stack of feathers) then hold them as a unit (all six, ready to tie) and make a single cut across all the feathers exactly the length I want the tail to be, with just enough left for the tie in point. With the thread already started and the tie in point just in front of the hook bend, the entire tail is tied in on top of the hook shank with three or four turns of thread (gradually tightening the thread with each turn while my serving hand is holding it all in place so that the torque of the thread won't rotate the tail), then just in front of the tail I'll add in flash (usually pearl Flashabou)on top and pull it back between the two sides of the tail... Once that's done I take three additional saddles (if using a single color body - two saddles if I'm going to change colors near the nose of the fly, the third is tied in after the first two are palmered into place... A small whip finish completes the tie. Chico Fernandez wrote extensively about Seaducers years and years ago -it's his original pattern (with an assist from Homer Rhode - who'd been dead for fifty years at that point...). By the way, a very tiny drop of thin super glue (Krazy Glue for me) after tying the tail in place - only on the thread... then a second tiny drop after the whip finish and you'll have a very durable bug...

Please keep the tail no longer than twice the length of the hook shank with a Mustad 34007 hook.... I used to teach fly tying years ago (early eighties at Broward Community College - adult night classes) and did demos at fishing shows for many years before getting back into guiding full time...


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

Here's a few I recently tied for a donation. On size 2 & 4 hooks. Tails are four hackles and facing in. No limit to the color combinations you can tie. The original didn't have eyes but I like to tie in plastic bead chain eyes for more of a shrimpy look.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

@bananabob I like those grizzly hackles; very shrimpy!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Good looking flies Bob, those barred saddle hackles look awesome. I like using saddle hackles, they provide a unique movement but they seem to have a pretty short life span. Mine are usually trashed after a fish or two.

I have been using fox hair because it's a quick tie. The fox fur holds up better and doesn't take time to align like the saddles.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

el9surf said:


> Good looking flies Bob, those barred saddle hackles look awesome. I like using saddle hackles, they provide a unique movement but they seem to have a pretty short life span. Mine are usually trashed after a fish or two.
> 
> I have been using fox hair because it's a quick tie. The fox fur holds up better and doesn't take time to align like the saddles.


Once I learned how to tie the splayed saddles on the hook all at the same time it was a lot faster. The trick, as Bob said is to hold the saddles tightly as you tie them in and they come out nice and even every time


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

crboggs said:


>


Chris, that one is called a redfish seaducer. I think it came out in the early 2000's. I've had pretty good success in the 10K sight casting to low tide redfish with that one. I don't think I've fished one in over 12yrs and would be curious if anyone has done any good with one lately. I think it originated in the IRL area.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Bryson, good thread. I love a good classic fly (both fishing and tying) once in a while and the Seaducer is a good one. Capt LeMay hit it right on the head and you can't go wrong with that advise for sure.

I remember my 1st real good upper slot red on the fly and it was tied by the guy who got me into fly fishing. We were wade fishing for reds in a spot and I tied on that yellow body, red head seaducer (textbook tie) he tied for me and was throwing them to shallow water reds on the sand flats. Very easy fly to blind cast with.

I've found that you hardly need a weedguard with that fly for normal silts and floating grass. But I recommend it for throwing up in wire grass or mangroves.

One thing I really like about that fly is it pushes a lot of water without bulking up on materials. It makes a nice sizable silhouette while pushing water. You can tie them big or small, heavy or sparse, depending on the need. And no one will balk at you for substituting materials either. But the classic original one is one of those flies that just keeps on working.

Personally, I like mine a bit sparse and will sometimes only use 2 hackles on each side. My favorite colors are;
red and white,
all white
all black
tan & white grizzly barring and red head. 
Trout love chartreuse and white.

Ted


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

One thing has complicated life for beginning tyers (that like all of us buy a few flies before tying themselves...) is that for many years a lot of shops just go with whatever a fly is labelled and I've seen quite a few different flies called "seaducers" - many that have little if any resemblance to the original.
My own Silhouette is frequently called a weighted seaducer in some shops and even in some magazine articles...


The good news for all of us (beginner or experienced tyer) is that saltwater fish just aren't that picky most days. If the fly is the right size and is moved the way a shrimp or a baitfish moves (two completely different strips...).... It will get bit most days.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I like to tie mine heavy and use lead eyes. I also like to bend the eye of the hook a little bit and work them in the mud like crabs.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Steve_Mevers said:


> Once I learned how to tie the splayed saddles on the hook all at the same time it was a lot faster. The trick, as Bob said is to hold the saddles tightly as you tie them in and they come out nice and even every time


Sometimes I'll also create a little bump with thread wraps that can help separate the splayed saddles if you tie them in ahead of it. It doesn't take much...just a few wraps are enough to do it.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Backwater said:


> Chris, that one is called a redfish seaducer. I think it came out in the early 2000's. I've had pretty good success in the 10K sight casting to low tide redfish with that one. I don't think I've fished one in over 12yrs and would be curious if anyone has done any good with one lately. I think it originated in the IRL area.


I'll be adding a couple to the box before the weekend. I was on alot of tailers last week but I was throwing a Borski Fur Shrimp variant primarily. I think I needed something that suspended a little better. I may even tweak a few with a little chartreuse since we had tailing black drum mixed in with the reds.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jmrodandgun said:


> I like to tie mine heavy and use lead eyes. I also like to bend the eye of the hook a little bit and work them in the mud like crabs.


Look up a "Dan Blanton's Whistler." That's basically what you are doing.


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

So Bob,
Years ago you tied the seaducers with a metal weed guard for the Biscayne Bay Fly Shop (I think with and without eyes).... I loved those flies and caught my first reds and trout on them (Chartreuse and White). I thought it was another local tyer and when I asked him about it he looked at me like I was crazy! You contributed to the addiction!! I still tie them but not near as pretty as yours... Thanks!


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## Pbertell (Apr 22, 2015)

PS - Best day at Flamingo on tailing reds I caught 14 fish and the guide I was fishing with caught 8 on that fly (after a few fish we took turns 2 at a time)! Don't know if I will ever see another day like that...


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

crboggs said:


> Sometimes I'll also create a little bump with thread wraps that can help separate the splayed saddles if you tie them in ahead of it. It doesn't take much...just a few wraps are enough to do it.


Yep, even a little calf tail fur works too.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

It's really interesting to me that you guys are adding spreaders to splay the feathers out even more -- would any of you mind posting some pictures of your flies from a top view? I think I've misunderstood the pattern a little bit. Evidently the splaying of the feathers is important to the tie.

Lots of great info in the thread so far; thanks everyone!


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm the furthest thing from an expert...the little thread bump is just my personal hack to make it work better for me. But then that's the great thing about tying IMHO...fly patterns are puzzles that can be completed or pieced together in many different ways.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I've never cared for the feathers being splayed out like that, aside from the standard tie on a seaducer. The only thing I might do that with is maybe a crab pattern. What can happen with hackles over splayed, especially if the tail hackles shift one way or the other, is they can helicopter in the air, as well as in the water when stripping it. Just saying....


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> I've never cared for the feathers being splayed out like that, aside from the standard tie on a seaducer. The only thing I might do that with is maybe a crab pattern. What can happen with hackles over splayed, especially if the tail hackles shift one way or the other, is they can helicopter in the air, as well as in the water when stripping it. Just saying....


I always tie them so the splay is facing inward. Also try and select feathers that are relatively straight and don't have a lot of curve to them for this pattern.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Tie them any way you want - if they work for you.. Splayed without any spreader (I use spreaders mostly for tarpon flies - but that's another story..) or "Deceiver" style not splayed at all with the curve facing inwards... Here's a photo comparison - the Seaducers have splayed tails, the Silhouettes have deceiver style tails...


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