# Ankona Caicos vs. simple skiff



## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Hello all, 

I wanted to know your thoughts when comparing the Ankona Caicos to the simple skiff conch fish 16. There are some similarities but I’d like to know what y’all think the pros and cons would be when it comes to one vs the other. If you’ve been on them can you tell me the experience. Thank you all.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Full factory customization capabilities vs. some assembly required, batteries not included. 

If you don't want the hassle of DIY then this cuts your options in half. Now if you are a DIY who wants a blank canvas then it's a matter of what are you looking for in the skiff? What do you want to do? Answer this questions then your choices are more apparent. 

From a fishes point of view it won't matter which skiff you are on. Both will get you to and from the same waters about the same.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

iMacattack said:


> Full factory customization capabilities vs. some assembly required, batteries not included.
> 
> If you don't want the hassle of DIY then this cuts your options in half. Now if you are a DIY who wants a blank canvas then it's a matter of what are you looking for in the skiff? What do you want to do? Answer this questions then your choices are more apparent.
> 
> From a fishes point of view it won't matter which skiff you are on. Both will get you to and from the same waters about the same.


Great insight. I know simple skiff I’d fairly new and I’ve never seen one in person, but when it comes to quality I wonder how these 2 boats compare. The simple comes from a very popular design. Which one would be better riding, more stable, drier, etc.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

For answers to those questions there are two options. Take a ride yourself or rely on internet keyboard cowboys to give you their "opinions". LOL 

I recommend the former vs the latter.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

iMacattack said:


> For answers to those questions there are two options. Take a ride yourself or rely on internet keyboard cowboys to give you their "opinions". LOL
> 
> I recommend the former vs the latter.


Yes I do intend in testing both but I am impatient lol


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

I have never seen the Caicos in person, but I am building a Conchfish (17.5) so i have stared at it for a while now. I can't find an up skirt shot of the Caicos. It _appears _to be flatter right at the bow entry. The Caicos web page says the deadrise is 12 degrees at the front bulkhead. I think they both appear to be good values.


Caicos










My Conchfish


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Yes they both do seem to be a good value but I wonder if the conch fish is a better riding and drier boat. I haven’t been on either yet so I have to get that figured out.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

If it’s an upgraded whipray, I’m pretty sure they aren’t in the same planetary orbit. Simple skiff all day.


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## Gregorya24 (Oct 1, 2020)

Jorgerivadeneira said:


> Yes they both do seem to be a good value but I wonder if the conch fish is a better riding and drier boat. I haven’t been on either yet so I have to get that figured out.


Wait list on the Caicos is like 24 months out.


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## Fernando Perez (May 7, 2021)

Gregorya24 said:


> Wait list on the Caicos is like 24 months out.


And on top of that their prices have gone through the roof mainly due to raises in material prices but it’s way too much. A side console Caicos with a 40hp was 22k when it came out which was a good deal but now it’s about 30k


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Which will ride better? Well better than what and why is this you main focus?

My Egret rides better than any other flats boat out there and better than many bay boats.... _according to Al Gore's internets_.... So what? Who cares?

Well for *where and how I like to fish* it matters to me. I make long runs across open waters (Islamorada to East Cape, White Water Bay, along the Gulf in 10K islands, Pine Island Sound, Offshore Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Jupiter inlet... etc) So for me I need something that can make long runs comfortably in waters that are not protected but is still a small skiff at 16' LOA. And that's the key. Where and how will you use the skiff?

Reality, in calm conditions at cruising speeds both skiffs ride similar to each other. Close your eyes and you will probably not notice a difference. Having been on the Caicos and Waterman (very similar concept as the Simple Skiff) the Caicos actually rides a better when on plane in several conditions. Especially in short duration tight but moderate wave height chop. You know, those waves set in a tight cadence kind of like a badly rutted dirt road that shakes the filling in your teeth lose. Usually found in windy bays and semi-protected waters. All you have to do is look at the running surface (back 2/3'rds to 1/2 of the hull bottom) to see what I mean. The Simple Skiff is a flat bottom and the Caicos maintains some dead rise. (_sorry don't remember the amount off the top of my head_) Do an internet search and you can find running pictures of the Conchfish 16 (same as SS) and Caicos. Look at how much of the hull is actually in the water at plane. 

The Simple Skiff may have some advantage in very nasty conditions where with the engine trimmed down and a lot of tabs you can push the bow down into the waves. *If this is a deciding factor then I have to ask are you looking at the right skiff?*

The key advantages of both skiffs are not their ride/dryness in poor conditions.

Their key advantages are;

Simplicity
Build cost
Poling draft
Poling ease
Ease of general maintenance and cleaning
Ease of storage in carports/garages
These are the factors you need to consider.

I've spent time poling the Caicos. *I have not poled the Simple Skiff.* However I spent years on the platform of a 16' Waterman. (the Waterman is a little wider skiff Simple Skiff but overall are similar in hull design. The SS and Conchfish are revisions Chris made to his original hull design. WM=73" - Caicos=68" - SS=70" _note: these measurements are manufacture stated beam at the top deck, waterline beam differs._)

IMHO the Caicos has an advantage in overall poling stability and draft vs. the Simple Skiff. Why would I make such a heretical claim?

What matters here is wetted surface. More level wetted surface means more stability. If you look carefully at Sublime's post the pictures are worth a thousand words. Which skiff carries more wetted surface under the angler at the bow? This has a direct relationship to overall stability while poling.

Cost: Simple Skiff published prices look to be a heck of a deal in this economy. But I'd recommend you do a point by point objective comparison of the build sheet to see if the published prices are on par with each other.

SIMPLE SKIFF:
*Complete Package $22,000*

CF16 Skiff with under gunnel rod storage, rear hatch with dry storage, open front bulkhead, rub rail, push pole clips, and bow pop up cleat
30hp Tohatsu tiller with power trim & tilt, 6 gallon portable tank, fuel/water separator, mounted and rigged
Aluminum Continental trailer
Poling platform
Trim tabs
Sea Dek package (poling platform, hatch pad, reel pads)
Navisafe magnetic LED navigation lights
ANKONA CAICOS

*Sample water-ready price:* $22,505 (Tiller, poling platform, electrical package, 20 hp Tohatsu, custom aluminum trailer)
You need to do your homework here. Look carefully at the build sheet specs and see which is the better deal.

One thing to consider, especially in the current supply chain environment, will be the buying power of the manufacture. Every manufacture is being squeezed by supplier issues, late deliveries or long wait times for parts. Heck I've been waiting since June of 2021 for a new 90 outboard.

Some manufactures have made proactive bulk purchases to try to insure to the best of their ability they have some inventory to move finished products. *I don't know the disposition of either manufacture.* So this is purely my *opinion*! It's going to be difficult for a new manufacture to secure the necessary resources and components to complete their product vs. an established manufacture with capital to bulk buy.

Final thoughts: Do your homework. Call the manufactures. Ignore and don't feed the internet trolls and fanboys. Think about why you want the (insert manufacture here). Enjoy the journey of having a new skiff being built for you because it's going to take a long time. It's your money don't let someone fool convince you to part from it just because they claim to know what they are talking about on an internet forum.

Good luck!

Cheers
Capt. Jan
_Curmudgeon Emeritus_


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## Gregorya24 (Oct 1, 2020)

Fernando Perez said:


> And on top of that their prices have gone through the roof mainly due to raises in material prices but it’s way too much. A side console Caicos with a 40hp was 22k when it came out which was a good deal but now it’s about 30k











I love my Caicos! I put my order in December of 2020


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Gregorya24 said:


> Wait list on the Caicos is like 24 months out.


That’s actually insane I didn’t know


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Fernando Perez said:


> And on top of that their prices have gone through the roof mainly due to raises in material prices but it’s way too much. A side console Caicos with a 40hp was 22k when it came out which was a good deal but now it’s about 30k


I had no idea about this either. I guess my price sheet is a little outdated…..


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

iMacattack said:


> Which will ride better? Well better than what and why is this you main focus?
> 
> My Egret rides better than any other flats boat out there and better than many bay boats.... _according to Al Gore's internets_.... So what? Who cares?
> 
> ...


Well that was an amazing and very informative write up capt. Jan. I still have yet to wet test either of those skiffs. I’m actually running a Key West 1720 pro right now and I am looking into getting a boat that floats skinnier. I primarily fish inshore Biscayne bay, from stiltsville all the way to cesars creek. I do pretty well out there running my current boat but would like something that gets skinnier and that I can pole. Mainly fish 2 sometimes 3 people. 50/50 fly fishing and spinning. I want something simple, tiller, less things to go wrong and break. Easier maintenance, not such a big boat and obviously Not one that is going to be 40k+. Basically looking for a “simple” skiff to run all around biscayne bay, the keys, and Everglades. The skiffs i mentioned might not be the ones for me.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Jorgerivadeneira said:


> Well that was an amazing and very informative write up capt. Jan. I still have yet to wet test either of those skiffs. I’m actually running a Key West 1720 pro right now and I am looking into getting a boat that floats skinnier. I primarily fish inshore Biscayne bay, from stiltsville all the way to cesars creek. I do pretty well out there running my current boat but would like something that gets skinnier and that I can pole. Mainly fish 2 sometimes 3 people. 50/50 fly fishing and spinning. I want something simple, tiller, less things to go wrong and break. Easier maintenance, not such a big boat and obviously Not one that is going to be 40k+. Basically looking for a “simple” skiff to run all around biscayne bay, the keys, and Everglades. The skiffs i mentioned might not be the ones for me.


I went the opposite direction - had a skinny skiff and wanted something that rode better for the bay. Everything is a compromise but the deadrise is nice when the weather picks up, which happens often. I’ve spent a lot of time on the 1720 and IMHO it’s considerably more seaworthy than most other skiffs, including my HPX 18. The caveat of switching to a smaller, less deadrise skiff is the ride and that difference is larger when already owning a great riding hull. Obviously, getting on a skiff in real world conditions is the best option before making a purchase but we all know that’s not always realistic. The Heron, Evo, 10 weight, HPX, Biscayne are some other good options worth looking into. Good luck


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Str8-Six said:


> I went the opposite direction - had a skinny skiff and wanted something that rode better for the bay. Everything is a compromise but the deadrise is nice when the weather picks up, which happens often. I’ve spent a lot of time on the 1720 and IMHO it’s considerably more seaworthy than most other skiffs, including my HPX 18. The caveat of switching to a smaller, less deadrise skiff is the ride and that difference is larger when already owning a great riding hull. Obviously, getting on a skiff in real world conditions is the best option before making a purchase but we all know that’s not always realistic. The Heron, Evo, 10 weight, HPX, Biscayne are some other good options worth looking into. Good luck


Thank you so much for your reply and yes I should be jumping in these boats to find out for myself before purchase, that’s the plan. It is definitely a compromise though because I know the 1720 is pretty sea worthy but that thing can’t be poled or float under 10-12. I’m definitely stuck


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Based on your recent responses I would not recommend either skiff. IMHO @Str8-Six hit the nail on the head. Those types of skiffs are the ones you should consider.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

I'd go simple skiff. It's going to be much drier and it has more displacement; so, you could hang a larger motor. I'd buy the Native 17 before the Caicos. I had a native and that thing was so dry. I also took that thing is some nasty water and it handled it perfectly.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> I'd go simple skiff. It's going to be much drier and it has more displacement; so, you could hang a larger motor. I'd buy the Native 17 before the Caicos. I had a native and that thing was so dry. I also took that thing is some nasty water and it handled it perfectly.


Thank you so much for the insight VANM. I’m surprised you’d choose the native, didn’t know the ride was that good and dry. I was actually looking into the native a while back. Prices have just gone crazy recently. I’m definitely interested in the simple, just wish someone would review it.


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## Bonesonthebrain (Jan 2, 2020)

Jorgerivadeneira said:


> Thank you so much for the insight VANM. I’m surprised you’d choose the native, didn’t know the ride was that good and dry. I was actually looking into the native a while back. Prices have just gone crazy recently. I’m definitely interested in the simple, just wish someone would review it.


Pretty sure they have not delivered hull #1 yet, so nothing to review. In one of the posts someone mentioned they were getting hull #1 soon, might want to search for that and contact them.


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## VANMflyfishing (Nov 11, 2019)

Jorgerivadeneira said:


> Thank you so much for the insight VANM. I’m surprised you’d choose the native, didn’t know the ride was that good and dry. I was actually looking into the native a while back. Prices have just gone crazy recently. I’m definitely interested in the simple, just wish someone would review it.


The simple is the same hull design as the Hells Bay Eldora. If you like the Eldora/16' whiprays, you will like the simple. There are multiple reviews of the Eldora online. The Caicos is more similar to the IPB/Maverick hull design. I would go with the simple tiller, but that's just me.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Like a few have mentioned before -- there is a huge range of skiffs between your 1720 and the skiffs you've mentioned. You may find that something more in the middle will meet your draft requirements while also keeping you a little drier. I would open up my options, and also consider buying used if you don't want the wait for a new skiff.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

There are a few Egrets out there. Hint hint.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

VANMflyfishing said:


> The simple is the same hull design as the Hells Bay Eldora. If you like the Eldora/16' whiprays, you will like the simple. There are multiple reviews of the Eldora online. The Caicos is more similar to the IPB/Maverick hull design. I would go with the simple tiller, but that's just me.


I figured it would be similar to the eldora. That’s good news I will be checking out some reviews.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

iMacattack said:


> There are a few Egrets out there. Hint hint.


Waaaaay out of my price range lol, even used I believe.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

bryson said:


> Like a few have mentioned before -- there is a huge range of skiffs between your 1720 and the skiffs you've mentioned. You may find that something more in the middle will meet your draft requirements while also keeping you a little drier. I would open up my options, and also consider buying used if you don't want the wait for a new skiff.


Hey so could you give a couple of mentions on what skiffs are between the 1720 and the skiffs I mentioned ? Would that be a maverick or hewes ?


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

One in the keys for less than 30k on Craigslist.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

iMacattack said:


> One in the keys for less than 30k on Craigslist.


I’ll be checking it out. I definitely wanted a lighter skiff though with less maintenance.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

All those 0-2 degree, narrow beam, great poling skiffs have little footprint to displace water and therefore are a little more weight sensitive than a wider beam, drier riding, and poorer poling flats boat. Only you can decide where on the skinny poling vs dry soft ride scale you want to fall.

This is relevant because there are lot overloaded and overweight TPS out there not drafting near their advertised draft. Lots of guys out there pushing around an overweight and overpowered 60-70" beam TPS and drafting 11-12" because their boat has little wetted footprint to displace the weight of too much HP, a full yeti, and 2 fat guys. Yet, they still miss out on the ride of a little larger flats boat.

The Egret 167 mentioned is going to ride great and will also float in 9-10". (Egret also makes a lighter weight Moccasin 16 on the same hull for low-mid $40K's new, which is the best value on the market in my opinion) It's not going to pole like a Conch 16 and like all Egrets, you have take into account wind direction and hull slap but there are no better choices for ride in the bay on a windy day.

If it was me.... I'd throw an East Cape Evo into the mix and look hard at the Floyd 10wt.

Btw, who are the guys that started Simple Skiff? I'm sure they are members here on Microskiff.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Half Shell said:


> All those 0-2 degree, narrow beam, great poling skiffs have little footprint to displace water and therefore are a little more weight sensitive than a wider beam, drier riding, and poorer poling flats boat. Only you can decide where on the skinny poling vs dry soft ride scale you want to fall.
> 
> Btw, there are lot overloaded and overweight TPS out there not drafting near their advertised draft. Lots of guys out there pushing around an overweight and overpowered 60-70" beam TPS and drafting 11-12" because their boat has little wetted footprint to displace the weight, and but still miss out on the ride of a little larger flats boat.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the insight and suggestions. I’ve never been on an egret but I’m sure they are wonderful skiffs. I would actually enjoy a more simple tiller skiff, with less maintenance.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Half Shell said:


> All those 0-2 degree, narrow beam, great poling skiffs have little footprint to displace water and therefore are a little more weight sensitive than a wider beam, drier riding, and poorer poling flats boat. Only you can decide where on the skinny poling vs dry soft ride scale you want to fall.
> 
> This is relevant because there are lot overloaded and overweight TPS out there not drafting near their advertised draft. Lots of guys out there pushing around an overweight and overpowered 60-70" beam TPS and drafting 11-12" because their boat has little wetted footprint to displace the weight of too much HP, a full yeti, and 2 fat guys. Yet, they still miss out on the ride of a little larger flats boat.
> 
> ...


I have no idea who the guys at Simple skiff are. Still trying to figure it out.


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## Half Shell (Jul 19, 2016)

Jorgerivadeneira said:


> Thank you for the insight and suggestions. I’ve never been on an egret but I’m sure they are wonderful skiffs. I would actually enjoy a more simple tiller skiff, with less maintenance.


I'd like a simple tiller too. I don't know who builds one with a great ride for a long run down Biscayne Bay on a windy day.

However, Frank makes an Egret Moccasin 16 side console and he will make significant customizations to fit your needs. How hard (and cheaper) can it be to delete the side console and rigging and throw a tiller on the transom? 

Worth looking into.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Random question, I know bilge pumps aren’t on all skiffs. Anyone know if the simple skiff will have one?


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

If they don't have one, a bilge pump is easy to install


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

SS06 said:


> If they don't have one, a bilge pump is easy to install


Means I’d have to open a drain hole on the side of the hull?


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## SS06 (Apr 6, 2021)

Depends on setup but maybe, or depending on the motor we'll run hose right over the transom.

It's OK to drill holes in boats....trust me...everyone on the site with a skiff or guys who have owned several...gets to a point the have to drill/cut a hole...there are proper procedures to follow....

I think the simple skiffs are coming as kits anyway...your gonna have to cut some holes.

Or take JCdesigns up on his recent post building the same skiff....1st five at intro cost....after that price increases substantially


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

SS06 said:


> Depends on setup but maybe, or depending on the motor we'll run hose right over the transom.
> 
> It's OK to drill holes in boats....trust me...everyone on the site with a skiff or guys who have owned several...gets to a point the have to drill/cut a hole...there are proper procedures to follow....
> 
> ...


I definitely planned on just getting the complete build and not the kit. Would suck if it didn’t already come with one.


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## Lagoonnewb (Apr 16, 2017)

Just something to mention, Floyd is coming out with the 8wt soon. I believe they have it pulled from the mold now so their first one/demo should be up in running in the next few months. I would be looking at that as well, if it’s anything like their 10wt it should be an awesome skiff


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Lagoonnewb said:


> Just something to mention, Floyd is coming out with the 8wt soon. I believe they have it pulled from the mold now so their first one/demo should be up in running in the next few months. I would be looking at that as well, if it’s anything like their 10wt it should be an awesome skiff


Wow I actually had no idea. I would be interested in this too. I wonder why prices are going to look like.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Jorgerivadeneira said:


> Wow I actually had no idea. I would be interested in this too. I wonder why prices are going to look like.



I would think it would be just under the 10wt in pricing due to a little less material to build and a smaller motor. Otherwise, it takes the exact same labor to manufacture and rig as the bigger 10wt.


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## Jorgerivadeneira (Aug 7, 2019)

Sublime said:


> I would think it would be just under the 10wt in pricing due to a little less material to build and a smaller motor. Otherwise, it takes the exact same labor to manufacture and rig as the bigger 10wt.


Is this going to be a 16 foot skiff ?


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## vaninkc (May 7, 2017)

What's a 10wt priced around?


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## Lagoonnewb (Apr 16, 2017)

Jorgerivadeneira said:


> Is this going to be a 16 foot skiff ?


I would assume so based on the pictures, I assuming it’s just a scaled down 10wt.


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