# Whats the deal with Yamaha?



## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

I’m not entirely in the loop but the majority of the boaters in my area are repowering with Suzuki outboards.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Can your Suzukis or your ETECs do this? I think not.








Seriously though, the two strokes are bulletproof. That's all I know. If I were to repower, I'd go ETEC or illegally import a yammy 2 stroke.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

They suck.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Yamaha's were the best up to a few years ago. They were the most reliable you could get according to most mechanics, that's why I bought them. However a few things have changed recently.

First all the other outboard makers (Suzuki, Merc, BRP, tohatsu...) have upped their game. Now most new motors are pretty close on performance and reliability. Yamaha lost a lot of ground because some of the larger motors turned out to have major issues (dry exhaust rot, balancers needing replaced every 100 hours....).

The second thing that happened is that yamaha has lost a lot of fans because their customer service has gone down sharply in recent years. 

They are still popular because the diehard fans will stick with them. Think Ford vs Chevy. They are mostly popular because they spend a lot of time buying transoms on new boats.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I don't think their customer service is a recent issue, it's been bad for a while.


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## Copahee Hound (Dec 21, 2017)

Strictly my opinion, but... I think it's also based on location. It's hard to find anything other than Yamaha or Mercury tech/dealer or warranty facility around me. I don't see many Zukes, Etecs, or Tohatsus when I'm out on the water.


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## Texasproud11 (Jul 28, 2016)

I was comparing the new Tohatsu and Yamaha 20HPs side by side and they had comparable prices yet the manual Yami is 20 pounds heavier and the Electric Start is 15 pounds heavier. Seems like a huge jump in "portable" motors weight wise...


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Texasproud11 said:


> When I did the research though, they all seem to be almost 15 lbs heavier in today's 4 strokes, which is alot when your talking about a 100lb motor.


Im a little confused, which HP motor are you specifically looking at? I'm pretty sure that Yamaha has the lightest 4stroke 25HP available (126lbs)


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

If you're new to boats, go check out The Hull Truth site. 

Probably 300+ hours of reading about Yamaha vs. everyone else!


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Yamaha's big 4 stroke offshore motors from about 05/06 on are having a lot of corrosion problems in the exhaust. If not corrected it creeps up and ruins the block. Yamaha is in denial and will not help anyone with the repairs.


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## Texasproud11 (Jul 28, 2016)

yobata said:


> Im a little confused, which HP motor are you specifically looking at? I'm pretty sure that Yamaha has the lightest 4stroke 25HP available (126lbs)


20 HP


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

I've never had a problem with a Yami, and you can get one serviced anywhere in Florida.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

devrep said:


> Yamaha's big 4 stroke offshore motors from about 05/06 on are having a lot of corrosion problems in the exhaust. If not corrected it creeps up and ruins the block. Yamaha is in denial and will not help anyone with the repairs.


That was the exact problem I had with Yamaha but it was a 1995 130 corrosion issues that's why I buy Merc.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

2006 Etec and I stand by it. However, they all have service centers and the’re not just to buy or change oil. If it’s man made it’s going to break.


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

All outboards have their issues. Yamaha makes good and bad outboards. The 225s had corrosion issues, the 150s had balancer issues and the current 350s require fly wheel replacement after 80 or so hours between 3-4K rpms!!

Suzuki’s are impossible to get parts for.

With that being said I have twin 150 Yamaha 4 strokes on my offshore boat (1600 hours) and 150 hours on Tohatsu 4 stroke 50.

If I were to repower I’d do more research on the specific make and horsepower and not just the make in general. All manufacturers have their crown jewel engines


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## slewis (Sep 8, 2015)

My VF115 SHO is dooooope..


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

jlindsley said:


> All outboards have their issues. Yamaha makes good and bad outboards. The 225s had corrosion issues, the 150s had balancer issues and the current 350s require fly wheel replacement after 80 or so hours between 3-4K rpms!!
> 
> Suzuki’s are impossible to get parts for.
> 
> ...


Dude, where ya lookin for Zuke parts? The www has anything ya want! I have 3-4 dealers here in Citrus county also!


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> Dude, where ya lookin for Zuke parts? The www has anything ya want! I have 3-4 dealers here in Citrus county also!


I’m not looking for Suzuki parts. 
I know of multiple instances where parts back up was 2 plus months. Not even getting into the issues with lower units sticking. 
I’m not bashing any individual motor As mentioned above they all have their issues. I’d say 80 percent of them are self induced from lack of maintenance...


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Yamaha is riding on their reputation from the 2 stroke days. They have made a lot of mistakes with their HPDI and 4 stroke designs.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

jlindsley said:


> I’m not looking for Suzuki parts.
> I know of multiple instances where parts back up was 2 plus months. Not even getting into the issues with lower units sticking.
> I’m not bashing any individual motor As mentioned above they all have their issues. I’d say 80 percent of them are self induced from lack of maintenance...


Interesting that after 20years servicing them and I’ve not had these issues. Not sayin they aren’t real but I’ve never had them. 
They ALL break at some point or another, if they built perfect motors then they wouldn’t sell any more or sell any parts! But... they all do make great motors today! I’d say it’s more about service availability near you than who’s name is on the cowl!


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Yamahas are very popular and they make a very good product. I’d take a (new) 2 stroke Yamaha all day over any other engine for my purposes, but they don’t come here anymore. At work, the new SHOs have been good so far, but so have the Etecs that we’ve had since 2008ish.

IMHO, the best thing with any outboard is to run it.

For reference, I’ve owned an ‘89 Yamaha 200, ‘06 Yamaha 150 VMax (the shit), currently own 2011 60 Etec. Work - 115 Yamaha 2S, 200 H.O. Etec (x4), 150 Etec (x2), 115 SHO (x2), 250 SHO.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Yamaha is riding on their reputation from the 2 stroke days. They have made a lot of mistakes with their HPDI and 4 stroke designs.


Beyond the issues with the flywheel in the 350 and the early multi-carbd motors what mistakes did they make with four strokes.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

fjmaverick said:


> Beyond the issues with the flywheel in the 350 and the early multi-carbd motors what mistakes did they make with four strokes.


Plenty to read about on the boating forums. I'm not saying that Yamaha builds a bad motor, but there's been some issues. My father inlaw has the newer 300's and his compression is down. The dealer claims it's from trolling offshore too much? I don't understand why a 4 stroke can't burn clean without the need for a pricey fuel additive? I've also noticed that it has random bolts that are rusting out really bad while the others look like new? I expect more when you consider what new motors cost these days.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Just get the 20hp Tohatsu


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Plenty to read about on the boating forums. I'm not saying that Yamaha builds a bad motor, but there's been some issues. My father inlaw has the newer 300's and his compression is down. The dealer claims it's from trolling offshore too much? I don't understand why a 4 stroke can't burn clean without the need for a pricey fuel additive? I've also noticed that it has random bolts that are rusting out really bad while the others look like new? I expect more when you consider what new motors cost these days.


Carbon build up could happen on any motor idling at low speeds for long times. Happens on cars too. Fuel aditives are up to you, my dad uses them but I never have. The rusted bolts sound like corrosion issues which isn't normal and I would follow warranty with that.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

I have torn motors down that have used ring free/ carbon gaurd religiously and those that refused. I run it in my motors, period. Carbon builds up from the combustion process no matter who builds the motor! And it builds up even faster with today’s super high quality fuels! It’s not that pricey when mixing properly... 1oz to 10 gallons isn’t bad! Use it/ don’t use it... up to you, I use it and recommend it to everyone I talk to!


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

fjmaverick said:


> Beyond the issues with the flywheel in the 350 and the early multi-carbd motors what mistakes did they make with four strokes.


115s went through a number of years where they "made oil" early in their service life. https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/586558-yamaha-f115-making-oil.html 150's had issues with harmonic balancers crapping out and often causing serious damage to the engine. https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/873872-yamaha-f150-harmonic-balancer.html 225s had dry exhaust corrosion issues for 5 years. https://www.gotaclassaction.com/yam...yamaha-f225-four-stroke-outboard-boat-motors/ Their carbed 20 and 25 four strokes had very finicky carbs.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

dranrab said:


> 115s went through a number of years where they "made oil" early in their service life. https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/586558-yamaha-f115-making-oil.html 150's had issues with harmonic balancers crapping out and often causing serious damage to the engine. https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/873872-yamaha-f150-harmonic-balancer.html 225s had dry exhaust corrosion issues for 5 years. https://www.gotaclassaction.com/yam...yamaha-f225-four-stroke-outboard-boat-motors/ Their carbed 20 and 25 four strokes had very finicky carbs.


You forgot about the v6 SHO's making oil. Everyone has a different opinion on how to break them in and most go against Yamaha's recommendations. Imagine doing it wrong and trashing a 20k outboard while possibly voiding the warranty


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

UnitedFly said:


> My VF115 SHO is dooooope..


You can’t say that on a boating forum, it’s against the rules. I think In general a lot of issues with motors are a common problem with the loose but behind the steering wheel.
The F350 issue is Yamahas biggest problem.

But in regards to the weight they have:

The lightest four stroke 25 

The lightest 70hp motor that has seemed to be a big hit across many platforms.

The lightest 300 for many years only to recently be outdone by mercury’s new v8. Which is comparing apples to oranges seeing as the 505 pound Merc is only a 20” shaft where the Yamaha 300 is a 25” shaft.

The SHO 250 has been a good motor as well and it’s been at the top of the light weight list since it’s inception.

The 115SHO and ProXS115 are both really good motors in that class.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> I have torn motors down that have used ring free/ carbon gaurd religiously and those that refused. I run it in my motors, period. Carbon builds up from the combustion process no matter who builds the motor! And it builds up even faster with today’s super high quality fuels! It’s not that pricey when mixing properly... 1oz to 10 gallons isn’t bad! Use it/ don’t use it... up to you, I use it and recommend it to everyone I talk to!


Cylinder/piston de-carbon treatment is the key to long life on two cycles. Ring free fuel additive is the key to long life on four cycles.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

sjrobin said:


> Cylinder/piston de-carbon treatment is the key to long life on two cycles. Ring free fuel additive is the key to long life on four cycles.


Ring free is a decarboning additive.


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## Finsleft258 (Oct 7, 2018)

Boatbrains said:


> Interesting that after 20years servicing them and I’ve not had these issues. Not sayin they aren’t real but I’ve never had them.
> They ALL break at some point or another, if they built perfect motors then they wouldn’t sell any more or sell any parts! But... they all do make great motors today! I’d say it’s more about service availability near you than who’s name is on the cowl!


I have a repair shop as well. I have had one stuck lower on an ancient Evinrude, one stuck lower on a 2001 Yamaha, and I can't tell you how many on Suzuki. Most recent was on a 2012 DF140. Parts issues have been a thing as well with them. It's been dependent on the parts needed. I have also had parts issues with certain other models from other manufacturers but they have been the most difficult to source. 



Boatbrains said:


> I have torn motors down that have used ring free/ carbon gaurd religiously and those that refused. I run it in my motors, period. Carbon builds up from the combustion process no matter who builds the motor! And it builds up even faster with today’s super high quality fuels! It’s not that pricey when mixing properly... 1oz to 10 gallons isn’t bad! Use it/ don’t use it... up to you, I use it and recommend it to everyone I talk to!


Carbon forms from reduced operating temperature and rich mixture. If you are seeing too much carbon, probably over-propped. Some E-tecs require a flow constrictor at the water outlet for this reason as well.


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## Finsleft258 (Oct 7, 2018)

jlindsley said:


> All outboards have their issues. Yamaha makes good and bad outboards. The 225s had corrosion issues, the 150s had balancer issues and the current 350s require fly wheel replacement after 80 or so hours between 3-4K rpms!!
> 
> Suzuki’s are impossible to get parts for.
> 
> ...


This last part x1000.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

Wasn’t sayin it don’t happen folks! Was only expressing my experiences.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

How many boat companies does Yamaha have an interest in nowadays compared to the past? I never knew if that was a good strategy or not. If a person liked a particular boat but it only came with a motor they didn't want, then it would be a no sell situation.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

How does seafoam compare to other additives?


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

IMHO you should run a 2 stroke hard. All this "cruise" talk is for the birds. As long as you're propped right nothing wrong with giving them a work out.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

devrep said:


> IMHO you should run a 2 stroke hard. All this "cruise" talk is for the birds. As long as you're propped right nothing wrong with giving them a work out.


Goes for the 4strokes too, maybe more!


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

backbone said:


> How does seafoam compare to other additives?


Sea foam is ok, ring free and carbon gaurd do a better job though IMHO.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Boatbrains said:


> Ring free is a decarboning additive.


Yes sir the difference is Yamaha ring free solvents are added to fuel for continuous injection to four cycles and the de-carbon solvents are added directly to the two cycle carbs until the engine bogs down, let the solvent work, then restart to flush the carbon out.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2019)

sjrobin said:


> Yes sir the difference is Yamaha ring free solvents are added to fuel for continuous injection to four cycles and the de-carbon solvents are added directly to the two cycle carbs until the engine bogs down, let the solvent work, then restart to flush the carbon out.


Or you can run it through the gas also. I mentioned carbon gaurd, the method you described would use BRP engine tuner, Mercury power tune, ect... My main point was that they work very well at what they say they do unlike the many snake oils out there! Yamaha recommended/recommends ring free for all their motors last I checked.


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## Dan8383 (Nov 22, 2018)

My 2018 ttohatsu50 rules! Going to repower with the new upcoming 60hp tohatsu that will weigh about 4lbs heavier than the 50...


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## mmthunt (Aug 11, 2018)

Most of the commercial watermen on the Chesapeake Bay are switching to ‘zukes.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

We ran a lot of Yamaha’s at work for years and they were good motors, I have been running Suzuki’s on my personal boats since 95 and would not trade them for any other motor on the market.


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## fmwilson (Jul 31, 2014)

Ran both Yamaha and merc. Now run Suzuki. My mechanics is master mechanic for both Yamaha and Suzuki. He said if he were to rig a boat there’s no doubt Suzuki over Yamaha.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Dan8383 said:


> My 2018 ttohatsu50 rules! Going to repower with the new upcoming 60hp tohatsu that will weigh about 4lbs heavier than the 50...


Just checked on them, 2 different models, small lower unit model n normal gear ratio low weight. Other 60 4 stroke 3 cylinder 12 valve with large lower unit 2.33 ratio n weight is close to f70la yamaha n 10 less horsepower.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I think all the new motors are good. To me the most important issue is having a good shop nearby that you can trust. Beyond that, choose the motor that offers the best performance for you dollar for your boat and how you plan to use it.

Don't worry yourself over one motor being 4lbs heavier and then turn around and load the boat down with extra gear or even you gaining weight. You can get lost in the rabbit hole chasing light weight.


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## wellmanj (Feb 4, 2013)

Texasproud11 said:


> Pretty much......


I've had Yamaha, Johnson, mercury, Nissan, and Suzuki. I liked them all and would never choose an engine because a friend swears by a particular brand. 
Learn to work on your engine and you will learn to like them all. Outboard are so easy to work on and you'll save so much $$$$ overtime. 
Just keep parts well lubricated and corrosion free so you're always able to loosen bolts when the time comes. 

I spray all my engines (on the inside of the cowling) with corrosion-x: https://amzn.to/2T938Kd
It's sticky and lasts for years. 

On the other hand, if you know you'll never dive into working on an engine yourself, buy whatever engine is sold and serviced nearby. 

People always worry about weight when purchasing an engine, then they go and throw a full Yeti in their boat. A Yeti Roadie 20 cooler weighs 16 lbs (plus ice and beer). That's at least another 10 lbs if your loading it properly.


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

10 pounds of beer and ice. That must be a short trip.


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## Kevin Booker (May 25, 2016)

There has been a big change in weight just in the last 4 years. So new and brand new are different. Brand new models weigh a lot less. My 2015 Merc is 126lb vs the newest model which is 99 lbs. I could’ve bought a 2015 Yammy 25hp but it was 50 lbs heavier. If it was a 2019 though, it would weigh what my current merc weighs.


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

As someone who sells skiffs that, the majority of the time, take a motor <60HP my issue is that Yamaha is way more money at every HP point. Yes they may be reliable and there is service everywhere, but I cannot justify the $1000 to $2000 price difference between a Yamaha 4-stroke and a Tohatsu 4-stroke in the same HP. I rarely sell Yamaha to customers on their skiffs, for that reason alone. Some people are die hard about it, but really, I'd take a 50 HP Tohatsu 4-stroke over a Yamaha 50 4-stroke any day. It is an amazing motor for over $2000 less. In terms of service, with the exception of Yamaha, many of the components from other companies are made at the Tohatsu factory. So if someone works on Mercury, they can probably work on Tohatsu...especially in the portable outboard range.


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## SC Bill (Jul 22, 2017)

I had a 1999 Yamaha 115 2 stroke on my Hewes Redfisher. The rig is now with a good friend and still going strong. Nothing but scheduled maintenance along with a freshwater cleansing after every outing.

For no other reason, I opted for a new Yamaha F60 on my Dragonfly Emerger. I did briefly consider the Mercury, but, Yamaha won out due to a Yamaha dealer with heavy maintenance capability being a mile from the house.

As a retired airline pilot, I'm into going easy on the powerplant. While a boat motor (regardless of make) failure will not lead to a crash and burn, it can leave you terribly isolated. As such, I rarely continuously operate within the 75-100% range of the RPM band. Operating below 75% RPM adds many many hours to the longevity of the motor and reduces heated related stress on many engine components.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

SC Bill said:


> For no other reason, I opted for a new Yamaha F60 on my Dragonfly Emerger. I did briefly consider the Mercury, but, Yamaha won out due to a Yamaha dealer with heavy maintenance capability being a mile from the house.
> 
> As a retired airline pilot, I'm into going easy on the powerplant.


Your Yamaha love sounds similar to what alot of pilots say about airframes:

If it ain't Boeing........I ain't going!


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## SC Bill (Jul 22, 2017)

Net 30 said:


> Your Yamaha love sounds similar to what alot of pilots say about airframes:
> 
> If it ain't Boeing........I ain't going!


Indeed! I only flew Boeing!!! (727, 737, 757, 767, 777)

And another old sayin'..."you gotta dance with the one you brung".
And my Yamaha can dance.

I used to own Mercury 2 strokes back in 60s and 70s. They were made in a little cow town where I was born, Kissimmee; home of the Silver Spurs Rodeo. Actually the plant was closer to Florida Avenue in St Cloud where I lived many years before moving up to a little town that had one paved road, Windermere. All those places (except perhaps St Cloud) totally changed now-a-days due to a mouse.


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