# Which skiff?? Need help



## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

A number of fly guides over here on the east side of LA use the Waterman. The other popular choices are the East Cape offerings; Vantage, Fury, Caimen. I've never fished the west side of the state. That's the extent of my first hand experience. Good luck. Enjoy the search.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

18 Waterman


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

You mentioned long runs. Do you need to cross a lot of open water to get to your fishing area?


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

pt448 - Thats good to hear, might have to look into fishing with one of them guys for a test ride.

el9surf - Most of the time it can be avoided, running down the ICW is about the extent of it.

What are the key differences between the 18 waterman and the 17.8 pro as far as draft, range, and open water capability(both powered by 70hp)? Also if I was to run a removable 12v trolling motor would one boat handle it better then the other?


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## living_water1 (Jun 3, 2014)

Those are all very capable boats but If i had the coin.. Hells Bay!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Call Matt at Hell's Bay and he can answer any questions about the differences in detail.


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## CaptainRob (Mar 11, 2007)

17.8 Pro


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## nsbsurfer15 (Jun 2, 2014)

I have had experience on all of those skiffs except the Maverick HPX-T. I currently own an 18 Waterman.

If you don't have to cross a ton of open water and want to pole as shallow as possible, go with the Waterman. It handles open water pretty well within reason. I have had mine in some really nasty stuff but despite what some might say, it isn't ideal. It does fantastic in a head on or following sea and will keep you bone dry. A cross chop isn't bad and it will ride fine but the wind will blow spray over when its honkin'. One of the best poling skiffs I have been on and it is dead silent on the pole unless you have some considerable weight on the back to make the water get under the spray chine. Mine is an honest 5" draft boat and is enjoyable to pole. I usually put 6-8 hrs on the pole during a day of fishing.

The older 17.8 is the same hull as the waterman minus the wider top cap. The new HB Pro is a different animal. Some people love it, some older hardcore HB guys I know hate it. The biggest complaints I hear on the newer Pro is that it is a flat riding skiff and can be a wetter boat then the waterman hull. I haven't really been out in one when its that nasty so maybe somebody else can answer better. They still pole nice and its a great skiff.

Finally, the Maverick HPX-S is a pretty nice skiff. I would say it feels like a bigger boat then either HB although it is comparable in size. It is an excellent riding skiff in chop and it is an ultra dry ride (I was very impressed). It is a faster hull than the waterman and it took a chop better. I have heard some complain on the ride. It is a boat that likes to be driven by the trim tabs. If you don't know how to run a skiff like this, then it may take some getting used to. It is very sensitive to trim tab movements. The draft is slightly more, maybe an inch or 2 tops. It feels a little heavier on the pole then my waterman but nothing to gripe over. The only thing it took time getting used to was spinning it on the pole. The Maverick spins on a dime because it doesn't have any sponsons, not a bad thing... just different. Overall, this is a very nice ride. 

Hope this helps, good luck with your search.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

HB has a Texas based sales rep now. I would try to demo a HB Pro with a vented tunnel.

The Pro and Waterman are really 16' skiffs with sponsons, while the Maverick HPX-S is a straight transom 17' 8" boat with more deck space that you may like more than less draft.

Its not on your short list, but I think the Maverick 17 HPX-V2 is the right boat for you. You're going to miss that 115 speed, but it will run faster than the other boats on your list with a 70, and you already know how the HPX-V rides. I've observed quite a few Keys guides go up to the 18 with a 115 when the 2 stroke 90 got discontinued that have dropped back to the 17 with a 70 or 90.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

HB boys get your motors running and get in this thread

Page on


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

I've fished from the HB pro and have had a short test ride in the Maverick HPX-S and I noticed some of the same things, felt like the HPX-S relied so much on the trim tabs while the pro just did its thing on its own only to float just as skinny if not more. I also fish by myself sometimes and correct me if I'm wrong but the HPX-S seemed like in order to achieve a decent draft it relied a lot on having an angler on the bow. Now the 18 waterman has had my eye from the beginning I just haven't had any experience with it.

BD431- what power are you running??

Marietta Mike - I've considered the 17 HPX-V also due to the fact I wouldn't be sacrificing much going from my 18 HPX, but I'm pretty sure I'm looking to achieve more draft and have heard I'd be about the same. And the SE Texas mud loves grabbing a hold my V hull already.


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

I'm really digging this set up!


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

This is my current boat.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

If you get the tunnel Pro you can raise the jack plate and run it like a mud boat.

Dude at Powertech once told me that many TX skiffs run their SWW prop to cut through the mud and sand.

You may have already know this, but the best thing about getting a HB is you can pic whatever color you want at no extra charge, with whatever rub rail you want for a small upcharge. I'm guessing matching powder coat and push pole color, plus finished under gunnel is extra.



J believes in sky blue camo even on grey days.


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## nsbsurfer15 (Jun 2, 2014)

> I've fished from the HB pro and have had a short test ride in the Maverick HPX-S and I noticed some of the same things, felt like the HPX-S relied so much on the trim tabs while the pro just did its thing on its own only to float just as skinny if not more. I also fish by myself sometimes and correct me if I'm wrong but the HPX-S seemed like in order to achieve a decent draft it relied a lot on having an angler on the bow. Now the 18 waterman has had my eye from the beginning I just haven't had any experience with it.
> 
> BD431- what power are you running??
> 
> Marietta Mike - I've considered the 17 HPX-V also due to the fact I wouldn't be sacrificing much going from my 18 HPX, but I'm pretty sure I'm looking to achieve more draft and have heard I'd be about the same. And the SE Texas mud loves grabbing a hold my V hull already.


I have a yamaha 70 TLR 2 stroke on mine. 

The waterman is also weight sensitive when poling. If I am solo I have to have a full gas tank or add some weight up front. Also, if I fish 2 people on the front with me poling, you can tell a difference in ease of poling as the bow tends to plow more.


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## stuhastings (Jan 4, 2015)

I fish the same waters and live in Beaumont. Bought a Gordon 18 waterman '06 about a month and a half ago, down sized from a life of bay boats, first skiff I have owned and I just recently started fly fishing so I'm green and learning. Not sure what the differences are between the new Hellsbay Waterman and the Gordan but if you want to go for a run let me know and I'll make it happen. I have only poled two other skiffs, a Mitzi and a beaver tail micro so don't have much to compare it to but the ride is just what BD431 described.


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

Thanks for the info everyone! I'm going to call HB sometime this week and see about some test rides in the waterman and the pro.

UTS - I'll defiantly take you up on that, plus I'm always looking for someone to fish with in our area, not to many people fish our waters with a fly rod. I'm in Africa at the moment but I'll be state side by the end of the month. If you could PM me your contact info and I'll give you a shout.


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## SkinnyNaCIH2O (Feb 3, 2014)

TX ON FLY

I had most of the same questions, after lots of rides bought the HB Professional/Tunnel based on how I fish in Texas skinny water 80% of the time (8" or less when poling). I have fished off all the boats you mentioned and actually wet tested the HPX-S & HB Professional/Tunnel each with a 70 YAM in the same hour.  Copied and pasted my original notes below. I routinely get up in 8" soft mud and easily run in less than that all day long. Note, that I have a side console, all carbon fiber platforms, cav plate and a super aggressive Jack Foreman prop, all of which contribute to skinny capabilities. The Jack Foreman Prop also eliminated all sliding, kind of like having 44" mud grips!

The  main difference I can tell between the Waterman & Professional are the Professional sits 3-4" higher in the water, has less hull slap, handles chop a bit better.  If you want to drive over to the Port O'Connor/Seadrift area I will give you a ride. 

Previously Posted Review (Professional vs. HPX-S)---------------------------
I wet tested the HPX-S and an HB Professional with tunnel in Rockport TX a few days ago within an hour of each other.  Both had Yamaha 70's.

My Notes:
- Had no GPS on either so speed is TBA
- Both rode OK in the chop with the nod to the Maverick
- The HPX-S handled tight turns better with no sliding

DRAFT:
- HPX- S was a very strong 8" "being nice here" more like 9
- HB Professional W/Tunnel just under 7"

Poling
- HPX-S tracked very well, no hull slap, much heavier to pole than Professional
- HB - Poling was effortless but had minor hull slap with strong cross winds 

Hole shot 
Maverick -seemed to squat quite a bit and took more than a boat length to get up, may get better with more aggressive prop.  Bottom of skeg with jack plate all the way up was 11" below bottom of hull, estimate best hole shot @ 19ish"
HB - jumped up quick in less than a boat length.  Bottom of skeg with JP all the way up was 5" and estimate hole shot at 12"ish

Water depth to run in:
Not able to measure, as set up estimate HB around 6" and Maverick around 11" based on skeg distance from hull.


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

If trying to squeeze out every bit of draft then bear in mind that the F70 is swinging a bigger prop than the F60. Making for more foot below the hull. Over mud w a JP I can run my non tunnel waterman (f60) as shallow as it will float. Never paid attention to depth to jump up but it's not horrible either.


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

EclecticRednek - Thats a sweet set up! What speeds are you seeing out of the 60hp with your tunnel? And I'm game for the trip down there for a ride, its about time for a trip south anyways!

hookemdano - True that, I game to run small as possible just want to be able to run in the upper 30's, what speeds are you getting?


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

I can get 38mph out of it but rarely do conditions allow that. More often 32-35 in protected water. 

Mine is setup pretty light. No floor, side console, single battery moved forward, no tm or power pole. Only real option I got was JP. 

I would also consider the new 2 degree chittum. If the chatter is true about the new layup, it will be competitively priced with the other boats your looking at. And rumored to be lighter.


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## jlgentz (Apr 8, 2015)

*EclecticRednek, did you pole that shallow or did the tide go out on you? *


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Cool looking boat I love the blue. Is it stuck or what


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## SkinnyNaCIH2O (Feb 3, 2014)

Tried to make it across a very very shallow mud flat to a cut, missed by 25 feet. Part of the fun hunting tailers....


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## jlgentz (Apr 8, 2015)

Gotcha...awesome boat man.


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## SkinnyNaCIH2O (Feb 3, 2014)

As for speed here are my skiffs details...

Mine has a Suzuki 60av high thrust model. HP is one part of the hole shot vs speed equation, prop is obviously another. The last major variable is lower unit gearing which impacts the prop selection too. See chart below as a reference.

If you want a skiff like any mentioned to get up skinny you have to give up some speed. With the Jack Foreman HEAVY cup skinny water 3 blade prop I get 32 max but get up in what it will float in. HB delivered boat with a very good all purpose 4 blade that will hit 35 with a tailing wind and get me out of 10" or so. With a standard 3 blade sure it would get into high 30's but hole shot would be over 12 and I would never get up to make it back to the ramp in the end it truly comes down to where and how you fish and the compromises you want to make.


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

> I can get 38mph out of it but rarely do conditions allow that. More often 32-35 in protected water.
> 
> Mine is setup pretty light. No floor, side console, single battery moved forward, no tm or power pole. Only real option I got was JP.
> 
> I would also consider the new 2 degree chittum. If the chatter is true about the new layup, it will be competitively priced with the other boats your looking at. And rumored to be lighter.


Funny ya say that, I had it on my original post but deleted it..figured I would hold off for a bit on mentioning it because everyone who mentions chittum in there boat comparison post just gets replies saying "chittum" and regardless of stature I wanted some boat facts. But yes thats definitely on my list I talked to Hal about the boat last week, sounds legit and nicely priced. All I've seen of it though is there prototype, I'm ready to see a complete boat!


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

EclecticRednek - Yeah I guess not idling for half a mile trying to find somewhere to get up (my boat) will make up for my speed loss ha


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

I wasn't gonna throw a new boat into the mix, but since someone already broke the ice, any consideration for the new skiff from Islamorada Boatworks that's supposed to be out this year?


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

BTW if anyone is looking for a super clean maverick 18 HPX let me know, about to be one for sell.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

> BTW if anyone is looking for a super clean maverick 18 HPX let me know, about to be one for sell.


Is your engine the new F115LB?


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Just get a Towee


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

http://theredfishchronicles.blogspot.com/2014/03/mission-accomplished-in-new-towee-skiff.html


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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

> Just get a Towee


In an Ancient Rome Cato The Elder would say EVERY SINGLE TIME before addressing the Senate: Cartago delenda est. it didn't matter if they discussed the budget, or war, or games, etc. he said it everytime. 

You're kinda like a modern day Cato with your Towee.


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

Funny ya say that, I had it on my original post but deleted it..figured I would hold off for a bit on mentioning it because everyone who mentions chittum in there boat comparison post just gets replies saying "chittum" and regardless of stature I wanted some boat facts. But yes thats definitely on my list I talked to Hal about the boat last week, sounds legit and nicely priced. All I've seen of it though is there prototype, I'm ready to see a complete boat! 



I thought a guide in Texas was running it right now. Hopefully somewhere close enough for you to get a ride on it. 

I want to know more about the 12 degree with diff layup as well as Gordon's new sled. I need a non sponson boat and to be able to make open water runs of 12-14 miles without fearing for my life every other trip. But not willing to pole a big boat all day long. Hoping these 2 boats can fit that criteria. interested also to know more about the Evo and Biscayne. Just not thinking I can get through some of the places I run in either (or any) of those hulls.


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

> > BTW if anyone is looking for a super clean maverick 18 HPX let me know, about to be one for sell.
> 
> 
> Is your engine the new F115LB?


It is a F115LA


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

Boat is officially for sale. $49,000 obo 
2014
61hr
F115LA
8' power pole
24V Ipilot 
Powder coat package (white)
Swing tongue trailer
V marine removable push pole holder
24' Stiffy extreme push pole
Garmin 740s
On board charger


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## dcwillette (Sep 16, 2014)

Just curious, have you looked at the Newwaters built in San Antonio? I looked hard at them at a boat show and was impressed. They have three models that claim 4-5" draft at rest with full fuel.


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## setho235 (Apr 4, 2015)

> Just curious, have you looked at the Newwaters built in San Antonio?  I looked hard at them at a boat show and was impressed. They have three models that claim 4-5" draft at rest with full fuel.


I have looked at them but wasn't to sure of how they acted while poling. But I'm hoping to place an order of a HB Pro sometime this week.


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