# Cut the loop?



## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I do remember when fly lines did not have loops, and now they do. I’ve diligently used these loops and a loop to loop connection to my leader, but I’m sort of wondering. Some of the factory loops leave much to be desired regarding ”straightness”, and it certainly seems hinge-y at time.

Oh, and I see that Flip cuts his off so there is that.


----------



## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

8wt and under I leave the factory loops. I might whip a nail knot over the end of the loop where it is spliced back into the line. 9wt and above, I cut the loops off, fold the line back over and tie 2 to 3 nail knots with a drop of super glue for bombproof rigging. Usually 2 knots for 9/10wts and 3 knots for 11/12wts.


----------



## swamp_junkie_27 (Feb 24, 2021)

I’ve cut the loop off every fly line I have bought for a couple years now. The nail knot is just hard to beat when compared to the bulkier loops


----------



## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Two nail knots over the factory weld plus a touch of super glue and it will never come undone.


----------



## Paul Mills (Mar 26, 2018)

I cut off the loops when I'm wanting super stealth. Knail knot a stiff butt section of fluro or mono on to carry the energy of the flyline. 

I don't like the bulk of the loop and for me sometimes I loose "feel" to the fly and miss the slightest touch on tailing fish and fish that are shy to eat. Call me fussy, that's just my experience. 

I also like to be able to build a 12 - 15ft leader and that starts with a heavy butt section about 3-4ft as mentioned. 

So where I can, I take the loop off.


----------



## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Modified Albright. Andy Mill shows it in a video they posted on YouTube


----------



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Nail knot is better casting but loop is more convenient, especially in mangroves or jungle when using straight 40 or 50 fluorocarbon and fish or sticks are abrading the leader. My eyes are not good and I don't like tying knots on the boat. For flats fish I have started using the nail knot


----------



## texican08 (Sep 13, 2016)

I’ve never had a loop come undone, but have had the leader bite into the loop that I’ve worried about it cutting through and failing. I cut the loops out once that starts to happen.


----------



## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

jay.bush1434 said:


> 8wt and under I leave the factory loops. I might whip a nail knot over the end of the loop where it is spliced back into the line. 9wt and above, I cut the loops off, fold the line back over and tie 2 to 3 nail knots with a drop of super glue for bombproof rigging. Usually 2 knots for 9/10wts and 3 knots for 11/12wts.


Care to share I picture with us!


----------



## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I’m going to cut one and try it out. It is a Chard taper 8wt that i use on my Hardy Pro Axis 9wt 1pc. The loop looks suspect to me and it is my ‘jack’ rod on the skiff. It really has me wondering esp when my line goes where i want it, and my leader/fly is 60 degrees off due to crosswind. Also, I’d like to run some longer leaders even if I don’t need to.


----------



## Poon.Patrol (Jan 28, 2021)

I usually cut the factory loops off of my 11/12wt lines and make a new loop with 3 nail knots and then cure it with uv finish. Hasn't failed me yet. I still practice a lot so I like the loop still to replace the messed up leader from the grass. Other wise I would nail knot the butt section to the fly line to avoid hinging.


----------



## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

Surffshr said:


> I do remember when fly lines did not have loops, and now they do. I’ve diligently used these loops and a loop to loop connection to my leader, but I’m sort of wondering. Some of the factory loops leave much to be desired regarding ”straightness”, and it certainly seems hinge-y at time.
> 
> Oh, and I see that Flip cuts his off so there is that.


So are we debating on homemade vs. factory loops or are we debating on factory loops vs mono butt section nail knotted to the straight fly line.

Having recently watched a video where Flip nail knots his butt to his fly line, I had to try it. I took an old fly line, cut the loop and nail knotted a piece of 40 lb mono to the fly line. I tied a 30 lb tip section to that butt and tied a hook to the end (I was trying to test out my loop knots as well). I attached the hook to the hitch on my truck and gave it hell. I was greatly surprised how much pressure I was able to put on it and see no issues arise. I'm not saying I'm about to go cut all my loops off and nail knot a semi-permanent butt to my fly line, but I did gain a bit of confidence in that setup.


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I cut it of and whip a loop with tying thread bobin. Wind up a bunch, glue then wind some more then glue. Got this from Lefty
Or double nail knots


----------



## grampy_grumps (Sep 6, 2015)

Flip says to cut it -


----------



## Maliberti (Apr 25, 2021)

I would cut the loop on anything over 10 wt, or secure with nail knot.
Never had any issues with lower weight loops, actually like them a lot for quick changes.


----------



## DouglasL (Jun 9, 2021)

I read someplace about tying an Albright over the factory loop with 6 feet of 40 pound, then twisting the two remaining 3' strands and ending in a loop. I have done that on a couple of 8 and 9 weights and have seen a noticeable difference in the transfer of power in turning over big crabs and gurglers and other "big" flies. I always add a little glue to the Albright. Have done it for years- no reason to change now..


----------



## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

I don’t cut off a loop and never had a factory loop fail on a fish. Never used anything over 20# for the tippet, though. In my experience, the tippet will break or the hook will bend open before anything else breaks. I guess if you are running


> 20# tippets, then the factory welded loop could potentially be the weak link in the chain. Hinging, no haven’t had any issues with that either.


----------



## TripleHauler (Jul 11, 2020)

I used to always cut the loop and nail knot when I was primarily trout fishing. Now I might catch everything from a trout to a redfish to a bass to a sheepshead to a bream on the same 6 wt which requires varying leader weights. Very handle to switch quickly with a loop to loop connection.


----------



## Gatorbig (Jan 15, 2021)

Cut factory loop, snell a short butt section(2-3") with perfection loop on other end then loop to loop the leader. 

Took me a couple tries to find the correct butt section for the short piece to match the fly line and not hinge.

I think this method is talked about in the vid above


----------



## Surfrat59 (Mar 30, 2021)

Most of my lines I cut the loop and make my own braided mono loops from 50lb Gudebrod , lighter lines I nail knot an appropriate butt section for a more delicate presentation


----------



## 8w8n8 (Sep 30, 2017)

Surfrat59 said:


> Most of my lines I cut the loop and make my own braided mono loops from 50lb Gudebrod , lighter lines I nail knot an appropriate butt section for a more delicate presentation


Ditto on the braided-mono-loops ... on both the leader & backing-end of the fly line. Just don't prep the backing-end as I do the leader-end of the fly line.


----------



## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

30# mono butt, 5/6wt Cortland intermediate 195 grains and the lines 130 feet long.
Competition series.
Cut the loop and ... use a needle to poke a hole up the middle, then out the side so I can then insert the leader butt then nail knot.


----------



## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

FWIW the guides on Providence Atoll no longer recommend cutting off the factory loops for their GT fishing. Other than tuna (which can be a long long fight) nothing pulls harder than a GT.


----------



## kjnengr (Jan 16, 2018)

ifsteve said:


> FWIW the guides on Providence Atoll no longer recommend cutting off the factory loops for their GT fishing. Other than tuna (which can be a long long fight) nothing pulls harder than a GT.



Steve, that brings up something I've wondered for a while. For those that are very adamant cutting the factory loop, when is the last time you've tried one? Is the decision based on fly lines from the past? Have you ever had one fail? What size mono butt section were you using? Is it a problem of the factory weld busting loose, or the loop getting cut through?

There are people with far more experience than me, so I'm not going to claim any particular way is better than another. I just like learning new things and like having my gear as bombproof as possible.


----------



## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

_My point of view_
is that the weakest point of a fly line/leader is the connection between the tippet and leader. 
Should your line fail any where else it's "operator error", factory defect or damage like a nick or abrasion.
I've been fly fishing for just over 59 years and have never experienced a leader/line connection failure. I've tried loop to loop, woven mono add on loops (when they first came out) but just prefer nail knot. 

I do have an exception, two reels that I use for old school 30 foot shooting heads are set up for loop to loop. One uses 20# mono for shooting line and the other a Cortland shooting line (intermediate) which is just a small diameter fly line that I put a loop on it by folding the end over and tying a nail knot with 10# mono.


----------



## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

kjnengr said:


> Steve, that brings up something I've wondered for a while. For those that are very adamant cutting the factory loop, when is the last time you've tried one? Is the decision based on fly lines from the past? Have you ever had one fail? What size mono butt section were you using? Is it a problem of the factory weld busting loose, or the loop getting cut through?
> 
> There are people with far more experience than me, so I'm not going to claim any particular way is better than another. I just like learning new things and like having my gear as bombproof as possible.


I have some experience with big fish. I won't say extensive as its too subjective. I have more than some and less than others so your experience may vary. Now in all that fishing time I have broken two fly line loops.

1. One loop cut through after an extensive fight using heavy leader. And this line had seen some use.
2. One loop flat broke. I was fishing a deep drop off spot where I know bull reds hand out. Was using 40# leader as the drop off edge can be brutal on lighter stuff. Hooked a big bull and it went straight over the edge. I tried to reef it over and the loop broke. As much my fault as any kind of line failure.

I think much of the issue with loops and guys replacing them is from years past when they first started making integrated loops. I think the technology is much better these days.


----------



## spc7669 (Apr 15, 2015)

I just got in a reel with some new Monic line. The loop seems much sturdier than the first lines I bought years ago. We’ll see how it holds up


----------



## grampy_grumps (Sep 6, 2015)

mro said:


> 30# mono butt, 5/6wt Cortland intermediate 195 grains and the lines 130 feet long.
> Competition series.
> Cut the loop and ... use a needle to poke a hole up the middle, then out the side so I can then insert the leader butt then nail knot.
> View attachment 184021


Got a video of that?


----------



## birdyshooter (Sep 17, 2019)

I’ve always wondered, if most our lines are mono cored, why not just extend the mono core? Possibly into a tippet ring or something?


----------



## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

The early loops 20 years ago were not good. I made my own with two or three quick nail knots and 12lb mono that we coated with Zap a Gap for UV protection. I tied hundreds while working in the fly shop

I've never had one of mine fail.

I've been using the factory loops now but test them first. 

I will say that I've had guides nail knots and Allbrights fail on more than one occasion. But that was probably due to use.


----------



## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

grampy_grumps said:


> Got a video of that?


If your referring to how to ty a nail knot that the leader butt has been passed through the end of the fly line... NO 

What I do is after I get the leader through the fly line and ready to wrap the nail knot I place a piece of 10# mono doubled over along where I'll wrap the nail knot. Wrap the leader around the fly line, "stiffener" and the 10# mono. Instead of trying to pass the end of the leader back through the knot... I stick it through the loop made by doubling over the 10# and use that to pull it through.

*Does this make the connection stronger? NO*

Does make it a tiny bit better passing through the guides and has generated the question a couple times over the years of "_how did you do that_" 

Only works on some fly lines as the diameter of the leader butt section needs to be small enough to do it. 

BTW, if you try it, cutting the end of the butt section at angle makes it a little easer to pass it through the fly line.


----------



## maismo12 (May 11, 2021)

I cut the loop. Less to get hung in the guides. Butt section is attached with a nail knot. Never had a problem. But I've also never had a problem with the factory welded loop either. Just a PITA when it gets hung up in the guides.


----------



## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

grampy_grumps said:


> Got a video of that?


No video, but here’s the basics:

This works best on dacron core flylines. Maybe not at all on some of the new lines.
Take a sewing needle grab it in your tiny vise grips or pliers and heat it in a flame. Push the needle up into the core about an inch or so. If it stops, pull needle out, heat and go again. When its deep enough, push on out the side of the flyline. After that, cut your leader butt at an angle and push it theough the core and out the hole when you poked the needle through. Pull enough out to make your knot, do the knot, trim neatly and its done.

A variation on this is without passing the needle out the side, but poking the butt up in the core with the tinest drop of superglue.

Yet another is to pass the butt out the side, superglue it and pull butt back into the core. 

Those last two are for light rods and smaller fish . You also have to be quick with it.


----------

