# Sage and TFO



## sjrobin

Hi Smack,

Your on the right track with the BVK and it is a good start until you gain some more experience fly casting from the HPX to see if you want to continue the crazy sport. Make sure you have a good fly line match. If you like rod building you can build high quality for less but not less $$ than the Temple Fork rods. Check the rod building thread here. The other option is high end used equipment. A lot of it shows up on this thread and most of it holds value.


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## Daz

I'm a big fan of both TFO and Sage. While I don't have a BVK, I have a few friends who do and they love them. I've read that they're a little more delicate than than TFO's TiCr coated rods, but with their no fault warranty you're safe no matter how hard you are on a rod. I do have six other TFO rods though (TiCrx, Axiom, and Mangrove).

As for the 4200 reel, I do have a few of those as well as a 6260 and an 8012 - Super smooth drags and a really nice feel (plus my wife likes all the colors). Sage has a great warranty too: I had an issue with the "sealed" drag on a 3800 series reel and Sage not only sent me a new 4200 to replace it (free of charge), they also replaced my two other 3800's as well when the same issue appeared with one of them.

I don't think you can go wrong with a TFO/Sage combo, especially for the $$, although I think with some looking around you might be able to beat that $600 asking price. The BVK retails for $280 and new Sage reels sometimes pop up on Sierra Trading Post and/or eBay for 40-50% off list.


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## bananabob

Check out TFO's site for their blanks. BVK was around $125 or so.


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## texasag07

I would stay away from sage reels in my opinion. I had drag issues with my 2080 reel and sent it back to sage. It took them just over 2 months to get it back to me and within about 3 more trips after the drag replacement it crapped out again. Maybe there new reels are better, but based on my previous experience and time without a reel I won't try them again.

Can't go wrong with TFO rods


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## Smackdaddy53

I think I am going to build my own fly rod with the best blank and components I can find and buy a nicer fly reel. I have been building rods for quite a while but have not done a fly rod yet. I am not new to saltwater or sight fishing by any means but have only caught two reds on a shrimp fly I tied a couple of years ago. I really want to get into it and try to catch some of these big trout I have been watching snub my plastics when reds will eat them. 
I have been reading great things about the Wulff Triangle Taper fly line, I think I will get some of that and get the ball rolling soon. 
I think a 7-8 weight will be what will suit my needs best. What fly reel do you guys suggest I get for around $300-400? I want to get something very nice, I am not one of those guys that buys a bunch of gear and then loses interest in a trip or two. I am going to dedicate myself to it and catch some fish.


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## Riverrambler

I have several TFO rods, BVK and a Mangrove 8wt for reds and trout. I love the BVK but the mangrove has its place. I agree though, I think $600 is a little high. I bought my BVK for $450 with a TFO case, BVK reel and spare spool lined up with SA Redfish and a sinking line. I bought the Mangrove and an Allen reel used for $225 with a case. Like the rod reel is ok, but I think you can get better for the same money. I really like the both the TFO reel BVK reel. However, I'm a big Lamson reel fan, I own 4 and they all have a great drag system. From my 3wt Speedster up. 

I bought my son a Lamson Liquid for $75 on clearance at Cabelas and put it on a TFO Pro special series rod. Its a great reel, Cabelas has the reel only for $109 or a 3 pack Liquid combo, reel housing and 3 spools, for mid $200. It's drag is as smooth as my speedster for less than a third the price. 

I think you can buy that rig cheaper than $600, should be around $450-$500. If you want a BVK or any TFO rod please check out Coastal Creek Outfitters online. He does custom tied rods in your chose of colors, and a much better reel seat, for less than what a BVK cost at Bass Pro or Cabelas, and he's a great guy. Bass Pro Currently has a BVK with a BVK reel for $499. Just thought you might like to check them out. Good luck, and let me know how you like the TFO rod.


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## jddurango

Make your own rod and use the savings to buy a first class reel like a Tibor Everglades or Nautilus NVG.


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## Smackdaddy53

What about these Cheeky fly reels? I have never heard of them but they have a good looking reel for $350 in the classifieds. Does anyone have experience with them?


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## crc01

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I think I am going to build my own fly rod with the best blank and components I can find and buy a nicer fly reel. I have been building rods for quite a while but have not done a fly rod yet. I am not new to saltwater or sight fishing by any means but have only caught two reds on a shrimp fly I tied a couple of years ago. I really want to get into it and try to catch some of these big trout I have been watching snub my plastics when reds will eat them.
> I have been reading great things about the Wulff Triangle Taper fly line, I think I will get some of that and get the ball rolling soon.
> *I think a 7-8 weight will be what will suit my needs best. What fly reel do you guys suggest I get for around $300-400?* I want to get something very nice, I am not one of those guys that buys a bunch of gear and then loses interest in a trip or two. I am going to dedicate myself to it and catch some fish.



We fish the same area. You are on the right track with rod wt. For that price range in a reel, a few i'd look at are the Tibor Backcountry, Nautilus XL Max, Galvan T-8 (about $430) and the Nautilus CCFX2 68 (about $430).


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## FSUDrew99

Have a TFO mangrove and a Sage Motive.... Both great rods.

Mangrove great for easy loading and shorter casts
Sage better for really shooting line and tight loops with a stiffer tip (my preferred)

Id go with the lightest and reel with a nice sealed drag aka Nautilus XL Max as stated above. I have the FWX 7/8 and love it.


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## Smackdaddy53

I watched several 8 weight rod reviews and it looks like the Scott Meridian is the premier 8 weight out right now. I would hate to spend $250-350 on a fly rod blank and not know what it will feel like when I'm done. Now I guess I need to sell some of my baitcasters to fund this endeavor. 
Keep the opinions and suggestions coming guys, I really appreciate it.


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## jddurango

Meridian is the new kid on the block. Tons of great rods out there.


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## bananabob

Sierra Trading Post has both the Lamson Litespeeds and Cheeky on sale. Also Speedster but it the smaller size for 6wts. My Lamson collection has grown by three this winter.


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## rakeel

Smack, this is southpaw from 2cool. I didn't know you got a new skiff. We still need to get out and fish sometime especially now that you're more interested in chunking feathers



Smackdaddy53 said:


> What about these Cheeky fly reels? I have never heard of them but they have a good looking reel for $350 in the classifieds. Does anyone have experience with them?


http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ch...wt~p~9557n/?filterString=fishing-reels~d~188/

Way better than $350 and it's brand new. I don't know much about Cheeky reels though. IMHO unless you plan on casting to jacks on the reg or have money just burning a hole in your pocket, there's a lot of quality reels that can be had for $200-300. Like an Allen Kraken or this guy

www.sierratradingpost.com/lamson-litespeed-35-series-iv-fly-reel~p~147mx/?filterString=fishing-reels~d~188%2F

Sealed drag y todos. Either the kraken or the lamson would be more than enough for redfish and the occasional jetty tuna. That being said, I have been eyeing a matte black Tibor Everglades for awhile now. 

As for rods, I'd go try a few different TFO rods out and buy whatever you like for now. Once you become a better caster then build a rod tailored to exactly what you like. If you're dead set on building a rod, I would try and find a Sage Xi3 blank. They've been discontinued but you can still find some floating around on the cheap. It's also a cannon. 

I'd recommend an 8wt over a 7wt. The 8wt will be a little more forgiving and give you a little added punch in the wind. I can let you borrow some different fly lines to try once you decide on a rod as it can make a world of difference on how a fly rod casts in various situations. For Texas reds you'll probably want a line that you can cast shorter distances quickly (1 or 2 false casts) which means a shorter head.


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## Tx_Whipray

I have a Lamson Guru I bought myself for Christmas. The drag is super smooth, and the Guru II is one of the fully machined models. (Some of the Lamson models save money by using a machined frame and a cast spool). My only complaint with it is that it's a 10/11 and thus a little on the large (wide) side for my 10wt rig. I think I'd prefer a mid-arbor with a narrower spool.


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## GullsGoneWild

cant go wrong with a BVK and lamson! I'd let you try it out for a day, if you took me fishing........
You will not need a high end reel for reds and trout in our waters. Half of the fish I have caught don't get put on the reel. One thing no one has mentioned is you may want to consider overloading the line weight by 1. IE if you buy an 8wt rod, spool it up with a 9wt line, at least that is what I was told when I bought my setup.


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## Smackdaddy53

Lots of great info here, thanks guys.


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## MSG

BVK rod is great - I actually like it better than a lot of $600 rods. I think people go way overboard on the reels - there are a lot of really good reels for not a lot of money - exception being if you are tangling with big tarpon. For reds and trout you can get a lot of different reels and be fine. The lamsons are really good. I've used the of bvk reel for years with no issues at all. In my view, the bvk shines with a really light reel. Every brand has a problem occasionally - but I think this is way overblown, on average. Do you really think you're going to hook a redfish and your reel is going to blow up or seize - highly unlikely.


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## Backwater

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What fly reel do you guys suggest I get for around $300-400?


This one.... 

The 3-Tand TF-70, at around $200 So far, it's been bulletproof!

http://www.3-tand.com/reels/#/tf-series-1/


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## Smackdaddy53

Backwater said:


> The 3-Tand TF-70, at around $200 So far, it's been bulletproof!
> 
> http://www.3-tand.com/reels/#/tf-series-1/


That could be the one. How long have you had it?


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## Backwater

Smackdaddy53 said:


> That could be the one. How long have you had it?


A year.... I've been seriously abusing it on purpose and I can't find a problem with it, so far.


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## texasag07

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What about these Cheeky fly reels? I have never heard of them but they have a good looking reel for $350 in the classifieds. Does anyone have experience with them?



The drags on a cheeky even their big reels are laughable.

My 1970's pflueger medaliat can give it a run for its money.

I fished one for a couple days on a trip with a friend and couldn't believe how week the drag was.

Low end redington behemoth, and rise. Have had two behemoth aibce they came out and besides the finish not being that strong you will not find a better drag for $115 or whatever they cost.

Midrange- Allen anything never had problems with the 3 reels I have. Lamson on clearance( though it's aggravating when the drag components fall out happened to me once and another buddy once ). They are really lightweight so I have two for my wife to use as she cares about how light the setup is.

High end- Nautilus or tibor( I prefer the older discontinued quick change series)


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## pete_paschall

I have built all of my fly rods and if I were going to build an 8 weight right now, I would do this: 

http://www.flyrodbuildingkits.com/s...d-building-kits-free-rod-bag-tube-w-purchase/

and put this on it:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/la...el~p~147mx/?filterString=fishing-reels~d~188/


I built a Salt in the 7 wt. and love it. I have also built Xi3's in 8 and 10 weights, and Batson Rainshadow RX 8 (no longer made) in 7, 8, and 9 weights. The kits from these guys are customizable, so you can change things up if you want to. For example, I prefer single foot guides, so they switched out the snake guides with no problem. And you get a rod tube. All for $450.

I have mostly Lamson reels and 2 of the Cheeky Mojo reels. Love the Lamsons (Velocity and Litespeed). Made in the USA and great customer service when needed, but I have only needed to use it twice in 16 years. The Cheeky reels are ok - we smoked the albies on one this fall (caught 50 + on that one reel) and it handled it fine. They were smaller albies, but the drag wasn't a problem. But I love the Lamsons, and that is a great deal on the Litespeed. I'd definitely spend the extra $30 on it over the Cheeky also listed.

You'd be all in at $680 with a great setup, and it is always cool to catch fish on a rod you built and a fly you tied.

Pete


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## bananabob

I'm selling a brand new Kraken 3 right now. While waiting for Allen fix my drag (which ultimately they sent me a brand new one, which took five weeks, very unusual for them) I saw the Lamsons on sale at Sierra and bought a 3.5 Litespeed, then the Speedster. Now I have too many 8wt reels even though I like them all. Kraken has never been spooled and listed in classifieds.


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## Smackdaddy53

I will definitely check it out.


bananabob said:


> I'm selling a brand new Kraken 3 right now. While waiting for Allen fix my drag (which ultimately they sent me a brand new one, which took five weeks, very unusual for them) I saw the Lamsons on sale at Sierra and bought a 3.5 Litespeed, then the Speedster. Now I have too many 8wt reels even though I like them all. Kraken has never been spooled and listed in classifieds.


I have been eyeballing them!


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## LowHydrogen

Backwater said:


> This one....
> 
> The 3-Tand TF-70, at around $200 So far, it's been bulletproof!
> 
> http://www.3-tand.com/reels/#/tf-series-1/


X2. I have a T-70, it's heavier than a TF but the machining, quality is the same, very impressed with this reel. The T-70 frame takes the same spool as the T-90 series, so if you buy the 90 spool, you basically have a 10wt reel for not much more expense.


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## Smackdaddy53

LowHydrogen said:


> X2. I have a T-70, it's heavier than a TF but the machining, quality is the same, very impressed with this reel. The T-70 frame takes the same spool as the T-90 series, so if you buy the 90 spool, you basically have a 10wt reel for not much more expense.


Good because we have tarpon down here in a few places and I wouldn't mind at least jumping one. I would be slinging flies at trout and reds most of the time.


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## Jason

Smack, just built a Rainshadow RX6 8wt, 3-Tand TF-70 I picked up on ebay and a spool of Wulff BTT. Can't really give a review of it yet since the glue just dried this morning but really like the feel of it in the backyard. Sure did balance out nice though.


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## Jason

Pics


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## Smackdaddy53

That's a nice looking setup!


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## Jason

Thanks, spun up the seat insert from some mesquite. Forgot mine is the TF-80 as well, little beefy for this setup. Usually fish the Port A area but if I'm ever up your way you're more than welcome to swing it to try the blank.


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## Nway93

I used to build all my rods, quit about a year ago after breaking a few light spinning rods and got tired of having to rebuild rods when I could just get a crowder or loomis and not worry about it. Only ones I built that I have left are a 10' bridge rod for live bait snook fishing and a 9' pier cobia rod. It's fun to catch a fish on a rod you built but break one and the headache isn't worth it. Bvk's are fragile I've worked at Blackfly for about 6 months now and have seen at least a dozen bvk's come in for warranty and we don't keep them on the rack cause of the breakage issue. Yes the warranty is $35 but it's a week without a rod. If you want to stick with tfo the mangrove is a good rod but spend a bit more and the new redington predator is the best casting rod under $500 I've thrown. If you want the best I personally think the meridian is where it's at but ask all of us at the shop and you'll get 6 different answers so go cast a rod before you buy it. Reel wise lamson is tough to beat for the money and honestly you don't need much more for redfish. The allen reels that have been recommended I think are a joke, I had a kraken and thought it was great til the reel foot just fell off and the drag siezed up twice, second time was a brand new reel they sent me, I use hatch and tibor now...


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## Smackdaddy53

Nway93 said:


> I used to build all my rods, quit about a year ago after breaking a few light spinning rods and got tired of having to rebuild rods when I could just get a crowder or loomis and not worry about it. Only ones I built that I have left are a 10' bridge rod for live bait snook fishing and a 9' pier cobia rod. It's fun to catch a fish on a rod you built but break one and the headache isn't worth it. Bvk's are fragile I've worked at Blackfly for about 6 months now and have seen at least a dozen bvk's come in for warranty and we don't keep them on the rack cause of the breakage issue. Yes the warranty is $35 but it's a week without a rod. If you want to stick with tfo the mangrove is a good rod but spend a bit more and the new redington predator is the best casting rod under $500 I've thrown. If you want the best I personally think the meridian is where it's at but ask all of us at the shop and you'll get 6 different answers so go cast a rod before you buy it. Reel wise lamson is tough to beat for the money and honestly you don't need much more for redfish. The allen reels that have been recommended I think are a joke, I had a kraken and thought it was great til the reel foot just fell off and the drag siezed up twice, second time was a brand new reel they sent me, I use hatch and tibor now...


You get what you pay for! Thanks for the advice. I found some nice Lamsons and still eyeballing the Nautilus in the classifieds.


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## bourbon

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I watched several 8 weight rod reviews and it looks like the Scott Meridian is the premier 8 weight out right now.


No doubt the Scott Meridian is an excellent rod. I don't doubt for a minute that it was the best rod in the eyes and hands of whoever tested it, either. However, that doesn't mean it is the best rod for your casting style and skill level at this moment. Your rod preferences can also change over time so I think of the concept of "best" rod as a moving target. On the plus side, that means you never grow sick of getting new fly rods, either.


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## Pudldux

Would not go with Lamson. Look at Ross reels. The CLA 4 or evolution. Super lightweight and durable. Would pair it with sa grand slam textured. Textured lines don't get near as sticky in the salt and the taper is similar th wulffs triangle. You will thank me later. BVK is very sufficient and will do the job for years to come. IMO loomis NRX is the finest 8 wt you can throw but no need to spend that money yet.


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## Smackdaddy53

I'm not scared to spend some coin on higher end gear then later buy a Scott Meridian and Tibor. I'm a tackle whore to the highest degree. It's safe to say in rods, reels and lures alone I have $25k invested and no telling how much in boats, wading gear and rod building equipment. Right now $600-800 is not out of the question for a good setup but I'm not in a huge rush as I am still tinkering with boat rewiring, a new poling platform, re-propping and trailer modifications.


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## resin_head

I love my BVK. I can cast it as far as needed, and it has the most delicate presentation. For where I fish, that is very important. I live in Hawaii where the winds are normally 15-25mph. I only fish for bonefish, so perfect presentation on a tailing monster is pretty important. My BVK is a 6wt. I also fish a Sage Method, also in a 6wt. The Method defiantly has more backbone, and launches cannons into the wind, but the BVK presents the fly better. As far as reels, I like both the Galvan Torque and Nautilus X. Their drags are impeccable, and both are moderately priced (around $400) and made in the USA. IF they can put the screws on a double digit bone, they can stop any inshore fish...no problem.


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## Smackdaddy53

Opinions on Orvis Hydros 2 Tip Flex 9' 8wt?


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## Pudldux

Orvis makes nice dog beds!


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## Smackdaddy53

Pudldux said:


> Orvis makes nice dog beds!


How did it place in the top 4 in the Yellowstone 8wt Shootout?


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## Pudldux

I guided for George for 13 years and know all the ins and outs of the shootouts. Not saying it doesn't cast well,but there are many other factors which make a rod great. Durability and fish fighting are just as important and I feel this rod does not make the grade. Opinions are like elbows, everyone has a couple, and these are just mine.


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## Smackdaddy53

Pudldux said:


> I guided for George for 13 years and know all the ins and outs of the shootouts. Not saying it doesn't cast well,but there are many other factors which make a rod great. Durability and fish fighting are just as important and I feel this rod does not make the grade. Opinions are like elbows, everyone has a couple, and these are just mine.


I don't know much about fly rods, just learning. Going with a Scott Meridian for sure.


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## Fish_specialist

I have to say, I've cast all the afformentioned rods. You really should try to cast them before you buy. I found something I liked about each of them.
You really need to go look at the NEW redington predator. It was completely redesigned last year and they hit a home run with it. The action is very close to the action on the new X rod, which most people compared closely to the Scott meridian...
Remember that each of us have casting technique flaw. It's up to you to find a rod that works in spite of your flawed technique. My aggressive style lends itself to a very fast rod, thus I prefer the Method, but I have a new 8 wt predator that should be arriving today. 
If you were close by I would let you try them all out on fish!!


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## Fish_specialist

Oh, and as for the 8wt shootout results- the old predator he blasted in there. I fish some high society fly guys at night when you can't see the labels on the rods and I have never had a single complaint about that 8 wt predator. Most people tell me they are impressed by the amount of lifting power on that rod.


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## Backwater

Fish_specialist said:


> Oh, and as for the 8wt shootout results- the old predator he blasted in there. I fish some high society fly guys at night when you can't see the labels on the rods and I have never had a single complaint about that 8 wt predator. Most people tell me they are impressed by the amount of lifting power on that rod.


 The Predator works great because you can actually feel the rod loading at night, (where it's hard to see what your flyline is doing), for being a fast rod. Not ultra fast, like the Method or Meridian, but fast enough, easy loading (without over lining it) and has good lifting for a rod in that price range.


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## crc01

Smackdaddy53 said:


> How did it place in the top 4 in the Yellowstone 8wt Shootout?


The H2 tip flex is a great rod. The Recon is awesome and at is much cheaper. I don't own any Orvis equipment, but have fished and cast these rods and was very impressed.

As for the shootout, I wouldn't put too much thinking into it. Fly rods are a very personal, subjective item and what works for one may not work for another.  The shootouts would be a good place to start looking, but don't take them as gospel. I remember when the Scott S4S came out, they blasted it for not having enough guts to throw long. Then in the next 8 wt shootout, they praised it for how easy it was to throw long with that rod.


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## Backwater

Smackdaddy....

There are lots of good rods out there for whatever price range you want to spend. If you talk to George Anderson who did the 8wt Shootout, he'd tell you the new Assqueef will win it this year, tho he's not doing one this year (I know, he's told me! ). 

I can find a lot of good and not so good with any rod. I even picked up the assqueef a couple of weeks ago and wasn't all that impressed with it for being $1100 for an 8wt. Still, it one has many, many years of experience casting, maybe you can appreciate the little nuances of each rod out there. You alone many never tap into the attributes of a high end rod, then throw a $200-$300 rod and wonder why you spent so much $$ on such a high end stick.

I have a $60 spinning rod that I catch more fish on, than my buddy's with his $395 Loomis spinning rod. His is a nice stick. Yep! But it doesn't make him a better fisherman.

Take a novice or poor caster with a $800 rod in his hand. Do you think that will make him a better fly caster? Do you think he'll be better than a good caster with a $80 rod? Nope, not really!

Don't get me wrong, There is nothing like having a fine piece of equipment in your hands and having a good time with it. But there are many versions of what people consider is what determines "fine equipment" or not. I go back to my speal I did about "Value" (look it up on this board). That is the balance between Good, fine equipment and value.

Personally, I'd rather not see you invest in a high end stick and then try to figure out how to cast it, but rather see you invest your money, instead, by splitting it up with a good intermediate/mid range/priced rod and then some really good fly casting lessons that will bring you up into that intermediate fly caster range. Then you will fully enjoy casting that rod and actually catch fish and have fun with it. Then as your casting improves, so will the use of that rod. If, years down the road, you've really come along way with your casting, then upgrade or add that rod to your quiver as your backup rod.

Since you are on the Texas coast, throwing to spotted sea trout and average redfish with average size flies (with the occasional jacks and a few other by-catch), on an 8wt, being new into fly fishing/fly casting, I'd go with something mid-level, since you like good equipment, but keeping within a modest level within your skillset. Te reason is that you may not get to really appreciate those little factors that set those few rods apart from the rest. And then when you finally do, that high end rod will be at a mid level range and something better will be out there. Get it?

So get some good lessons and really get the hang of it. Then go have some fun and cast a variety of rods intermediate/ mid range rods. Here would be a list of rods I would try in an 8wt.

TFO BVK & Mangrove, Redington Predator & Vapen, Orvis Recon & Clearwater, Scott Tidal, Fenwick Aetos, Marshfly Journeyman (tho I've never thrown them) and some Echos (tho haven't thrown their recent models). Or you can pick up a good used or close-out high end rod. Many options there.

On the list about, I think the TFO Mangrove and the new Redington Predator will be the best price point on a fast, yet forgiving rod (which is what is important at this stage of the game) with short quick loading capabilities (close to the boat casting), but will still reach out to 60-80ft with low effort, when your casting skills allows. Also, both of those rods in an 8wt will do well with bigger and slightly heavier flies. Thes rods are under $300. The Marshfly, Tidal and Recon will do the same at $400 to $450. The Fenwick Aetos is under $160.

Either rod will pair fine with the 3-TAND TF70 and will have all the drag you need. I recently had a fish that tested that reel's drag and it did fine!

Ted Haas


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## Smackdaddy53

Backwater said:


> Smackdaddy....
> 
> There are lots of good rods out there for whatever price range you want to spend. If you talk to George Anderson who did the 8wt Shootout, he'd tell you the new Assqueef will win it this year, tho he's not doing one this year (I know, he's told me! ).
> 
> I can find a lot of good and not so good with any rod. I even picked up the assqueef a couple of weeks ago and wasn't all that impressed with it for being $1100 for an 8wt. Still, it one has many, many years of experience casting, maybe you can appreciate the little nuances of each rod out there. You alone many never tap into the attributes of a high end rod, then throw a $200-$300 rod and wonder why you spent so much $$ on such a high end stick.
> 
> I have a $60 spinning rod that I catch more fish on, than my buddy's with his $395 Loomis spinning rod. His is a nice stick. Yep! But it doesn't make him a better fisherman.
> 
> Take a novice or poor caster with a $800 rod in his hand. Do you think that will make him a better fly caster? Do you think he'll be better than a good caster with a $80 rod? Nope, not really!
> 
> Don't get me wrong, There is nothing like having a fine piece of equipment in your hands and having a good time with it. But there are many versions of what people consider is what determines "fine equipment" or not. I go back to my speal I did about "Value" (look it up on this board). That is the balance between Good, fine equipment and value.
> 
> Personally, I'd rather not see you invest in a high end stick and then try to figure out how to cast it, but rather see you invest your money, instead, by splitting it up with a good intermediate/mid range/priced rod and then some really good fly casting lessons that will bring you up into that intermediate fly caster range. Then you will fully enjoy casting that rod and actually catch fish and have fun with it. Then as your casting improves, so will the use of that rod. If, years down the road, you've really come along way with your casting, then upgrade or add that rod to your quiver as your backup rod.
> 
> Since you are on the Texas coast, throwing to spotted sea trout and average redfish with average size flies (with the occasional jacks and a few other by-catch), on an 8wt, being new into fly fishing/fly casting, I'd go with something mid-level, since you like good equipment, but keeping within a modest level within your skillset. Te reason is that you may not get to really appreciate those little factors that set those few rods apart from the rest. And then when you finally do, that high end rod will be at a mid level range and something better will be out there. Get it?
> 
> So get some good lessons and really get the hang of it. Then go have some fun and cast a variety of rods intermediate/ mid range rods. Here would be a list of rods I would try in an 8wt.
> 
> TFO BVK & Mangrove, Redington Predator & Vapen, Orvis Recon & Clearwater, Scott Tidal, Fenwick Aetos, Marshfly Journeyman (tho I've never thrown them) and some Echos (tho haven't thrown their recent models). Or you can pick up a good used or close-out high end rod. Many options there.
> 
> On the list about, I think the TFO Mangrove and the new Redington Predator will be the best price point on a fast, yet forgiving rod (which is what is important at this stage of the game) with short quick loading capabilities (close to the boat casting), but will still reach out to 60-80ft with low effort, when your casting skills allows. Also, both of those rods in an 8wt will do well with bigger and slightly heavier flies. Thes rods are under $300. The Marshfly, Tidal and Recon will do the same at $400 to $450. The Fenwick Aetos is under $160.
> 
> Either rod will pair fine with the 3-TAND TF70 and will have all the drag you need. I recently had a fish that tested that reel's drag and it did fine!
> 
> Ted Haas


I'm buying a new 8wt Scott Meridian from a fellow microskiffer and probably getting a Hatch 7Plus for it. If it doesn't please me I will sell it! I appreciate the suggestions.


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## Backwater

No doubt, that's a great setup.  But don't short change yourself by not getting some really good fly casting lessons. Otherwise, it will be years before you grow into your equipment investment. Don't skimp on flyline either. 

Have fun!


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## Smackdaddy53

Backwater said:


> No doubt, that's a great setup.  But don't short change yourself by not getting some really good fly casting lessons. Otherwise, it will be years before you grow into your equipment investment. Don't skimp on flyline either.
> 
> Have fun!


Absolutely! I'm sure I will be asking and sharing more as well.


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## paulrad

I really like my sage reels. Got a 3400D on my #9 and a 3300D for my #7. Not sure about the model that you listed, but as far as I'm concerned I think these sage's have smoother drags than the lamson's I've used. They're also much lighter my tabor riptide. Casting the #9 with the sage reel v casting it with the Tibor is noticeably more pleasant. I really think that if you're going to pay up for a nice light rod, then a light reel just feels much nicer.

Regarding rods, put me squarely in the camp that some rods suit some people and other rods are better for others. Just because George Anderson rates it highly doesn't necessarily mean it's the best rod for you. He's crazy about the NRX. I don't like it at all. He loves the Meridian, and so do I.

Finally, spend some time working on your casting. I would suggest doing your practice casting on a lawn when you're not fishing. Let your casting practice be practice, and let your fishing time be spent fishing.


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## RunningOnEmpty

Smackdaddy53 said:


> That could be the one. How long have you had it?


I've been using a 3-tand that's around 3 years old and it's holding up great even though I really neglect it. The drag is impressive! For the price it's tough to beat.


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## Smackdaddy53

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I've been using a 3-tand that's around 3 years old and it's holding up great even though I really neglect it. The drag is impressive! For the price it's tough to beat.


Nice


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## Tx_Whipray

Tx_Whipray said:


> I have a Lamson Guru I bought myself for Christmas. The drag is super smooth, and the Guru II is one of the fully machined models. (Some of the Lamson models save money by using a machined frame and a cast spool). My only complaint with it is that it's a 10/11 and thus a little on the large (wide) side for my 10wt rig. I think I'd prefer a mid-arbor with a narrower spool.


So just to update this. I just got back from Cocodrie, and hooked a huge drum with my 10wt. with the Lamson Guru. My buddy had boated a 41" red about an hour earlier, and this drum was a fair amount bigger. I don't know exactly, because the spool came off the reel mid-run, and I ended up losing the fish. I put it back together and the drag felt like a lopsided tire afterwards. I returned the reel to bass pro today, and they took it back no questions asked. I'm pretty much done with needing a 10 wt until the fall, so I'm going to save up and get a Nautilus CCF-X2.


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## Smackdaddy53

Tx_Whipray said:


> So just to update this. I just got back from Cocodrie, and hooked a huge drum with my 10wt. with the Lamson Guru. My buddy had boated a 41" red about an hour earlier, and this drum was a fair amount bigger. I don't know exactly, because the spool came off the reel mid-run, and I ended up losing the fish. I put it back together and the drag felt like a lopsided tire afterwards. I returned the reel to bass pro today, and they took it back no questions asked. I'm pretty much done with needing a 10 wt until the fall, so I'm going to save up and get a Nautilus CCF-X2.


Exactly why I'd rather spend more money on a nice reel than have an equipment failure on the water. All the money and time we invest in our boats I believe in having the best fishing gear to go with it! Thanks for the update.


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## RunningOnEmpty

Tx_Whipray said:


> So just to update this. I just got back from Cocodrie, and hooked a huge drum with my 10wt. with the Lamson Guru. My buddy had boated a 41" red about an hour earlier, and this drum was a fair amount bigger. I don't know exactly, because the spool came off the reel mid-run, and I ended up losing the fish. I put it back together and the drag felt like a lopsided tire afterwards. I returned the reel to bass pro today, and they took it back no questions asked. I'm pretty much done with needing a 10 wt until the fall, so I'm going to save up and get a Nautilus CCF-X2.


The new Lamson's are too light/wimpy for me.


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## Andrew Jones

I have the TFO BVK 8 wt that I wrapped myself. It is what I started fly fishing with so I really can'y compare it to anything else but it has caught hundreds of fish, and many good fish for me. I have a Sage 3208 reel that has also been good. The drag is great in it but I have a 3210 for my 10 wt that the drag doesn't seem to be so good. Anyway, the 3208 has been good to me along with the rod and it has stopped a number of big fish. I have tried 2 different lines out which are the Rio Redfish and the Scientific Angler Redfish. I like the Scientific angler a lot better!


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## Smackdaddy53

Andrew Jones said:


> I have the TFO BVK 8 wt that I wrapped myself. It is what I started fly fishing with so I really can'y compare it to anything else but it has caught hundreds of fish, and many good fish for me. I have a Sage 3208 reel that has also been good. The drag is great in it but I have a 3210 for my 10 wt that the drag doesn't seem to be so good. Anyway, the 3208 has been good to me along with the rod and it has stopped a number of big fish. I have tried 2 different lines out which are the Rio Redfish and the Scientific Angler Redfish. I like the Scientific angler a lot better!


Thanks bud


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## Andrew Jones

Also, If you are wrapping your rod and using snake guides, I suggest using the titanium. I used the Stainless the first time and they got grooves in them after a couple of years of heavy use. I suspect it was from a sandy bank I fish quite often but each snake guide had a groove in it before I noticed.


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## jddurango

I've fished the Lower Laguna and Cocodrie the past 3 years with my BVK and really like it.

The Meredian will be great but I'd rethink the Hatch unless you get a really good deal on it...try to find a used Tibor.


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## crc01

jddurango said:


> I've fished the Lower Laguna and Cocodrie the past 3 years with my BVK and really like it.
> 
> The Meredian will be great but I'd rethink the Hatch unless you get a really good deal on it...try to find a used Tibor.



I would go with a Tibor over Hatch as well. You can get the frost color Everglades for under $600, which is cheaper than the Hatch. Also, Stillwater fly shop has the satin gold color Everglades on closeout right now for $545.


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## Smackdaddy53

jddurango said:


> I've fished the Lower Laguna and Cocodrie the past 3 years with my BVK and really like it.
> 
> The Meredian will be great but I'd rethink the Hatch unless you get a really good deal on it...try to find a used Tibor.


The guy I'm getting the Scott from has a hookup.


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## Finn Maccumhail

Tx_Whipray said:


> So just to update this. I just got back from Cocodrie, and hooked a huge drum with my 10wt. with the Lamson Guru. My buddy had boated a 41" red about an hour earlier, and this drum was a fair amount bigger. I don't know exactly, because the spool came off the reel mid-run, and I ended up losing the fish. I put it back together and the drag felt like a lopsided tire afterwards. I returned the reel to bass pro today, and they took it back no questions asked. I'm pretty much done with needing a 10 wt until the fall, so I'm going to save up and get a Nautilus CCF-X2.


I still have a 2nd generation Lamson Velocity that was my first 10wt reel. They discontinued the Velocity series but it was just in the second tier of their reels. Fully machined, sealed drag, etc. I bought it when I couldn't afford better. From the looks of it, the Guru is what replaced the Velocity because they look almost exactly the same.

I had the same reel for 8wt too but sold it. Tried to sell my 10wt reel too but no takers.

Anyway, the first big fish I hooked on it was a big jack at the POC jetties and it smoked down the drag, locked up the reel and broke off the fish. I sent it back and got a new reel but after researching other people's issues it's pretty clear that Lamsons just aren't up to the job for anything you'd chase with about a 9wt or bigger.

Lamsons make fine reels for chasing trout in mountain streams and maybe even up to typical 8wt prey but they're just not going to handle big, hard pulling fish. I even have a Guru for my 4wt and it's just fine for that.

This past weekend in Cocodrie my fishing partner landed a 42# black drum on my rig- an 8wt Hardy ProAxis with a Tibor Everglades. And that rig handled the fish without issue, I don't think the Lamson for 8 or 10wt would have done the same.


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## jddurango

Smackdaddy53 said:


> The guy I'm getting the Scott from has a hookup.


Right on! Be sure to let us know what you think after you get it properly slimed up!


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## noahvale

I love my BVK 5wt. I would be careful high sticking a BVK 8wt. My 8wt is an older Sage fli that I got on half price closeout. It is not a really fast rod, but I like it a lot. All my reels are Allens. Good reels at a good price point. All modern rods and reels are so much better than what I started with that I am pretty happy with them all, but I caught just as many fish on old Shakespeare fiberglass rods with Pflueger Medalist reels.


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## Smackdaddy53

I am finally popping the cherry on my new rig tomorrow. I know it's no Scott but I have a Florida buddy that catches lots of big snook, trout and reds on a Redington Predator 8wt so I found a new one on eBay for $179 and said hell with it and bought it. I paired it up with a 3-Tand TF-70 with SA 20# backing and SA Grand Slam line. I'm sure I'll end up upgrading later but I have to admit casting it in the yard today in 20mph wind really blew my mind. I set up a few targets at different distances and could hit them pretty consistently out to 60 feet. I am not as seasoned fly fishing as a lot of you but I felt pretty good about the accuracy and minimal false casts to get it there. She's balanced out nicely right where my index finger hits the grip. These 3-Tand reels are light! 4.6oz in this model is pretty impressive. I bought a few flies from the local shop, they should be fine until I get to tying my own.


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## RunningOnEmpty

Smackdaddy53 said:


> View attachment 10249
> View attachment 10250
> View attachment 10251
> View attachment 10252
> I am finally popping the cherry on my new rig tomorrow. I know it's no Scott but I have a Florida buddy that catches lots of big snook, trout and reds on a Redington Predator 8wt so I found a new one on eBay for $179 and said hell with it and bought it. I paired it up with a 3-Tand TF-70 with SA 20# backing and SA Grand Slam line. I'm sure I'll end up upgrading later but I have to admit casting it in the yard today in 20mph wind really blew my mind. I set up a few targets at different distances and could hit them pretty consistently out to 60 feet. I am not as seasoned fly fishing as a lot of you but I felt pretty good about the accuracy and minimal false casts to get it there. She's balanced out nicely right where my index finger hits the grip. These 3-Tand reels are light! 4.6oz in this model is pretty impressive. I bought a few flies from the local shop, they should be fine until I get to tying my own.


That's a very nice setup. I use a redington 8wt with a 3-tand reel as well and it's a durable combination that performs just fine. I will suggest buying a quality vise like a Dyna King when you get into tying flies. Cheap vises aren't worth the headaches.


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## Smackdaddy53

RunningOnEmpty said:


> That's a very nice setup. I use a redington 8wt with a 3-tand reel as well and it's a durable combination that performs just fine. I will suggest buying a quality vise like a Dyna King when you get into tying flies. Cheap vises aren't worth the headaches.


My buddy is selling me his Renzetti. I used to tie my own flies when I was a kid using only feathers and hair from animals I killed or pets. My vise was a 2" C clamp zip tied to a broom stick screwed to a wood base! Raped the local bass ponds and creeks.


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## RunningOnEmpty

My dog has a nice shrimp colored fur LOL


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## bananabob

3-Tand reels may be OK but their website sucks.
Zero information to read about the reels the company etc. etc. I'll stick to what I have.


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## Smackdaddy53

RunningOnEmpty said:


> My dog has a nice shrimp colored fur LOL


C'mon man...I meant chickens


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## Smackdaddy53

bananabob said:


> 3-Tand reels may be OK but their website sucks.
> Zero information to read about the reels the company etc. etc. I'll stick to what I have.


The owner was the previous owner of Van Staal. There are several drop down menus about every aspect of the company including pro staff and there is all kinds of information about each reel (weight, line capacity, photos, details) on there plus videos etc!
http://www.3-tand.com/reels/#/tf-series-1/


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## RunningOnEmpty

Smackdaddy53 said:


> The owner was the previous owner of Van Staal. There are several drop down menus about every aspect of the company including pro staff and there is all kinds of information about each reel (weight, line capacity, photos, details) on there plus videos etc!
> http://www.3-tand.com/reels/#/tf-series-1/


I thought the van staal guy was responsible for the design only?


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## Smackdaddy53

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I thought the van staal guy was responsible for the design only?


You know how the web is, I thought I read he was the owner or part owner of 3-Tand. Either way if he had a hand in the design I'm in for the price point. It is a very smooth and well machined reel from what I can tell so far.


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## bananabob

Thanks for that connection smack daddy. Much better. What I was getting certainly wasn't that one.


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## sidelock

At only 4.6 Oz. I would question the reels integrity with regards to strength and durability.


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## RunningOnEmpty

sidelock said:


> At only 4.6 Oz. I would question the reels integrity with regards to strength and durability.


I personally like a beefy reel so I bought the T70 big game reel that's 8.3 oz http://www.3-tand.com/t-series-1/


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## RunningOnEmpty

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You know how the web is, I thought I read he was the owner or part owner of 3-Tand. Either way if he had a hand in the design I'm in for the price point. It is a very smooth and well machined reel from what I can tell so far.


I'm not sure what roll the 3-tand owner had with van staal after doing some reading? http://sportsmenscompass.com/fishing-gurus/ron-poehailos/


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## Smackdaddy53

sidelock said:


> At only 4.6 Oz. I would question the reels integrity with regards to strength and durability.


A couple of guys on here have them and have had zero issues. Ted has had his for about two years and caught some big cobia on it with no issues. If mine breaks I will get the lifetime warranty department to repair or replace it and either sell it or trade it for a T-70.


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## LowHydrogen

That guy is the real deal and cares about his product.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/3-tand-customer-service-wow.40842/


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## Smackdaddy53

LowHydrogen said:


> That guy is the real deal and cares about his product.
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/3-tand-customer-service-wow.40842/


Looks like I am the 21st owner of a 3Tand...I got a kick out of the troll on that linked thread. 
If it can be broken I will be the one to do it so we will see.


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## GG34

22nd. I just bought one.


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## Andrew Jones

You will be glad you got what you got for starters. It will give you time to figure out what you really want while you are tuning your fly fishing skills. You are already past half way on the curve.....You know how to fish!


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## Backwater

sidelock said:


> At only 4.6 Oz. I would question the reels integrity with regards to strength and durability.


Haven't found an issue with it yet!



Ted Haas


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## Backwater

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Looks like I am the 21st owner of a 3Tand...I got a kick out of the troll on that linked thread.
> If it can be broken I will be the one to do it so we will see.


There will always be haters!


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## Smackdaddy53

Backwater said:


> Haven't found an issue with it yet!
> 
> 
> 
> Ted Haas


But you are just a beginner...


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## RunningOnEmpty

This is 2 years of getting bounced around in my old micro and without any maintenance at all. The aluminum hasn't even started to show the slightest bit of corrosion where the finish is all scratched up.


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## Tx_Whipray

Tx_Whipray said:


> So just to update this. I just got back from Cocodrie, and hooked a huge drum with my 10wt. with the Lamson Guru. My buddy had boated a 41" red about an hour earlier, and this drum was a fair amount bigger. I don't know exactly, because the spool came off the reel mid-run, and I ended up losing the fish. I put it back together and the drag felt like a lopsided tire afterwards. I returned the reel to bass pro today, and they took it back no questions asked. I'm pretty much done with needing a 10 wt until the fall, so I'm going to save up and get a Nautilus CCF-X2.


Okay, quoting myself one more time. I made my first trip back to La this past weekend, and I bought myself a new Ross Evolution R Salt for the trip. Amazing reel. Super lite and a butter smooth drag. I didn't fish it too much, but my son caught a few over 30" fish with it. I put a Scientific Anglers Amplitude Grand Slam line on it, and I really like the line. Slicker than owl poop, and it's about a half weight over so it loads really well for those close to the boat shots in Louisiana. It's pricey at $129 at my local shop, but what's an extra $40 when you're dropping that kind of coin for a reel?


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## A.vulpes

I'm a "seasoned" fly fisherman, if you will. I still live and die by my BVK.


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## Luke_B

Hey @Smackdaddy53, where you fishing out of (live) mostly? 

I’m in the same area.


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## Smackdaddy53

Luke_B said:


> Hey @Smackdaddy53, where you fishing out of (live) mostly?
> 
> I’m in the same area.


East and West Matagorda Bay, Espritu Santo and San Antonio Bay amongst other places. Zephyr Cove is my favorite though. I’m usually launching from POC or Lane Road.


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## Luke_B

Smackdaddy53 said:


> East and West Matagorda Bay, Espritu Santo and San Antonio Bay amongst other places. Zephyr Cove is my favorite though. I’m usually launching from POC or Lane Road.


Same here... fish east side of west matty the most. Let me know if you need someone to pole you around. I had a maverick for a few years.


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## Smackdaddy53

Luke_B said:


> Same here... fish east side of west matty the most. Let me know if you need someone to pole you around. I had a maverick for a few years.


For sure bro. There are weekdays I sight fish by myself because most of my people are working!


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