# Technical Poling Skiff Data Comparison's Help



## skinny_water (Jun 11, 2008)

Great spreadsheet! This needs to be a sticky. 

The best way to avoid the costly mistake of picking the wrong skiff is to DEMO! Go I the factory or book a charter with someone that runs the boat that you are looking at. Take a couple of your buddies. And when you get ready to buy do another demo to see what options you would want to add or don't need. This spreadsheet isn't going to tell you how tippy, wet or dry ride, polling ability, rod holder placement, and a list of other issues that come up post sale.

Hope this helps!


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> Have spent some time compiling a spreadsheet comparing specifications for technical poling skiffs that seem to be good candidates for our Texas Gulf waters where we need super skinny skiffs. Would like to solicit comments as to the accuracy of the findings and help filling in the blanks. Thoughts on each skiff and ideas on what else should be compared are also appreciated?
> 
> Obviously price is missing for now....
> 
> ...


IMHO, only a water test for a day or more will reveal the best choice.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

Couldn't agree more on demos and wet tests - should have added that I have spent over $2000.00 in the last two months doing just that. Trying to do a better job of undertstanding each boats pro's/con's before I pay for a day guided trip & go BROKE:'( Sure is fun though ;D



> > Have spent some time compiling a spreadsheet comparing specifications for technical poling skiffs that seem to be good candidates for our Texas Gulf waters where we need super skinny skiffs. Would like to solicit comments as to the accuracy of the findings and help filling in the blanks. Thoughts on each skiff and ideas on what else should be compared are also appreciated?
> >
> > Obviously price is missing for now....
> >
> ...


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Your spreadsheet is great but I did not see any of the skiffs from Texas on the list.  ie Shallowsport, etc.  There are quite a few from that area.  

Also if you plan on having this boat for a while, which it sounds like you plan too, you may want to consider


> holding more than 450 lbs in my world of friends


 upgrading to say 600 lbs.  Comes on fast.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

Ducknut,

My search is based around Technical Poling Skiffs and the only company in TX that makes one is Newwater Boatworks (Stilt Model) with a beam of 62" which is too narrow for my requirements. I REALLY WISH there was a TX manufacturer of Technical Poling Skiffs in the category I am looking for!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

The advice to get out on the water with anything you're considering is great. Two other things to keep in mind... the first is that the boat building business is much better than it used to be... but still not as reliable about data that they release (particularly in the area of hull weights and draft...). The last item is the one many never think to ask.... After a day on the water with a particular skiff owner (not factory folks for this question...) where they tell you everything that's great, better than..., etc. Ask them what they don't like and really pay attention to the answer since occasionally you'll hear something you really need to hear...


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> Couldn't agree more on demos and wet tests - should have added that I have spent over $2000.00 in the last two months doing just that.  Trying to do a better job of undertstanding each boats pro's/con's before I pay for a day guided trip & go BROKE:'(  Sure is fun though ;D
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You doing it right then.  And while you're having fun, you would probably lose more than 2K if you buy the wrong boat.  That's the closest thing I find valid to the word "investment" when it comes to boats. ;D ;D

lemaymiami also brings valid points.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Alot of those draft and weight numbers are optimistic at best, when they publish them they use the most stripped down hulls they can balance. Definately need to water test the ones you are really considering.

On a side note, I don't think you actually have any "technical" poling skiffs listed, just some skiffs and flats boats. On a real technical poling skiff (gladesman, fs18, glades skiff.....) you would be fishing 2 at max usually.


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## cutrunner (Jun 8, 2010)

Hpx's are a very pole-able boat...


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

> Great spreadsheet!  This needs to be a sticky.
> 
> The best way to avoid the costly mistake of picking the wrong skiff is to DEMO!  Go I the factory or book a charter with someone that runs the boat that you are looking at.  Take a couple of your buddies. And when you get ready to buy do another demo to see what options you would want to add or don't need.  This spreadsheet isn't going to tell you how tippy, wet or dry ride, polling ability, rod holder placement, and a list of other issues that come up post sale.
> 
> Hope this helps!


What is a sticky?


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

> Alot of those draft and weight numbers are optimistic at best, when they publish them they use the most stripped down hulls they can balance. Definately need to water test the ones you are really considering.
> 
> On a side note, I don't think you actually have any "technical" poling skiffs listed, just some skiffs and flats boats. On a real technical poling skiff (gladesman, fs18, glades skiff.....) you would be fishing 2 at max usually.


Firecat, Curious about where you found the defintion of Technical Poling Skiff? Seems to me like a very losely used term for a skiff designed to be poled?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

It's been debated, just like the definition of a microskiff, but it refers to a very specific type of boat, not just a boat that can be poled in general.



> Seems to me like a very losely used term for a skiff designed to be poled?


That is true, but not losely at all. All the boats you listed are designed to be nice boats that ride well under power, draft reletively shallow, and can be poled well if need be. However a technical poling skiff is one that was designed to be poled as it's primary means of propulsion. These boats are very skinny and long so they move with ease and very quietly.
Honestly there are few people who would be happy with a TPS as there only boat, they are cool but not very versitile. They are very good at there jobs, but designed for a very specific type of fishing.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> > Alot of those draft and weight numbers are optimistic at best, when they publish them they use the most stripped down hulls they can balance. Definately need to water test the ones you are really considering.
> >
> > On a side note, I don't think you actually have any "technical" poling skiffs listed, just some skiffs and flats boats. On a real technical poling skiff (gladesman, fs18, glades skiff.....) you would be fishing 2 at max usually.
> 
> ...


Marketing from the same that brought us "the boat that invented the sport"  : Which would make CR correct. 

IMHO, FC is correct wit the 3 boats listed as TP's and they are good for one thing.  I have owned two out of the three and should have kept the Glades Skiff (the best poling skiff I have ever been on) or the 16 Whip (more versatile) for my use.

So who cares WTF it's called anyway. Flats boat, Bay boat, TPS, River boat, Tourney Addition, Micro, Macro, It's all marketing.  :  I have watched people shy away from a boat listed on this forum because of what it was classified rather than an honest evaluation to see if it was a fit for them.  After all, you have to ask do "I look good in it?"  ;D

IMHO, with "at least 3 grown men" you can knock off anything listed below 18'


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2011)

> > > Alot of those draft and weight numbers are optimistic at best, when they publish them they use the most stripped down hulls they can balance. Definately need to water test the ones you are really considering.
> > >
> > > On a side note, I don't think you actually have any "technical" poling skiffs listed, just some skiffs and flats boats. On a real technical poling skiff (gladesman, fs18, glades skiff.....) you would be fishing 2 at max usually.
> >
> ...




Yeah, you should have kept the one you had! :


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2011)

Fishing in Florida vs. Texas is very different which is why you find different skiffs. I would look at a skiff with a tunnel. HB Waterman, ECC Lostman.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Didja look at the Stiffy Xisle? Seems to have the size for 3 guys.
From your area so it probably was built for your waters.
No personal knowledge or experience with the hull, but it looks interesting.

                                             :-?

http://stiffypushpoles.com/xisle-boat


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## Thomas1 (Oct 20, 2011)

You should really take draft, running depth, hop on plane depth etc with a grain of salt from builders/sellers. Any outboard foot sits a min of 12" below hull bottom. 70HP and up are about 14" below. If you have to specify "soft bottom", you are just plowing through mud and grass. No jackplate and no tunnel, your boat runs in 12" minimum. When going on a test ride, bring a cinder block, set it 12" below the water, and run your motor over it on a plane. The draft story will change before you bring the block on the boat.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> When going on a test ride,  bring a cinder block, set it 12" below the water...The draft story will change


 ;D


That's what I like to see, a solid understanding of the relationship between hulls/outboard lower units.
Plus being able to discern the difference between what's real and sales hype.

Welcome to the forum Tommy, I like the attitude.


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## nate. (Nov 12, 2009)

very nice. i know space is a concern but i know that ECC offers glass, carbon/kevlar, innegra, or a mix of materials. i believe they can even special order hybrid cloths such an innegra/glass weave.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

Enjoying the comments/opinions, planning on at least 2 more wet tests before I decide where to write a check based on which poling skiff balances the ability to go skinny and uncomfortably carry 3 people. ;D


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## Snookdaddy (Jan 5, 2008)

> You should really take draft, running depth, hop on plane depth etc with a grain of salt from builders/sellers. Any outboard foot sits a min of 12" below hull bottom. 70HP and up are about 14" below. If you have to specify "soft bottom", you are just plowing through mud and grass. No jackplate and no tunnel, your boat runs in 12" minimum. When going on a test ride,  bring a cinder block, set it 12" below the water, and run your motor over it on a plane. The draft story will change before you bring the block on the boat.


I see a lot of the boats on the chart that say "running depth on plane" of 6" or less... I do not think that any of the boats listed will run in 6" or less unless you have a tunnel or a jack plate / agressive prop / low water pickup.

Did you test these skiffs and come up with the 6" or less running depth or did you get this info from the manufacturer?

I have a Gordon 16' Waterman with a 25hp Merc (lightweight) and there is no way I can run on plane in 6" of water. It looks like 6" deep when running over a sandbar in Tampa Bay, but I'd bet the water is more like 10" - 12" in depth.

A boat is only going to run as shallow as the skeg is deep in the water and most skegs are at least 10" lower than the bottom of the boat.


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## colin76regan (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm glad to see those running numbers and hole shot numbers were causeing someone else to shake their heads.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

Have not found an easy way to test hole shot or run on plane depth - started off using manufacturer and/or their paid guides for information/wet tests. Would love nothing more than to know the specifics of how you folks have conclusively tested these to disprove the manufactures claims for any of these specfic skiffs. That would be VERY helpful at this point. Proof is the pudding as they say - regardless of what side of the coin you are looking at. 

These claims would be a great idea for a Myth Buster's episode & a large 12" brick of submersible ballistics gel is coming to mind


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

Testing the hole shot has more to do with the skill and expert knowlge of the Capt. just gunning and heading stright is not the hole shot. Those who fish the ENP will tell you there is more then one way to get on plane.


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## jmercer (Sep 24, 2008)

I have an 18 Waterman with a 60 hp four stroke Yamaha. I can get into 4 inches with 2 people and 5 inches with 3.

I weigh 200 and my buddy weighs 225. His son weighs 185. So that is 610 lbs.

Boat poles like a dream with 2 and is a little more effort with the 3rd person.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> I have an 18 Waterman with a 60 hp four stroke Yamaha. I can get into 4 inches with 2 people and 5 inches with 3.


Can you post a picture of your set up? Cause no offense I seriously doubt anyone can run in 4 inches of water unless you have a jet drive. Even with a tunnel, low water pickup, cupped prop, and jackplate...... I still have not seen anyone get that skinny without ripping up the bottom which is stupid, the hydrodynamics just aren't there IMO. Running that skinny means you aren't getting good bite and you slow down, meaning you are drafting more and defeating the purpose.... Plus how exactly does one know they are getting that skinny? It's like trying to determin HP with your "butt" dyno. 
I like the idea of the cinder block test. If you notice most builders websites will not state there running draft, just a general draft which is taken at rest.
Honestly after designing and building 2 boats now I would give up a little draft for a more comfortable ride. If you need to run super skinny for a rocky river then run a jet, if you need to fish skinny water then pole or troll when it gets really skinny, theres 100 ways to skin a cat....


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## Taterides (Nov 10, 2008)

> > I have an 18 Waterman with a 60 hp four stroke Yamaha.  I can get into 4 inches with 2 people and 5 inches with 3.
> 
> 
> Fire cat- He said get into (pole) not running.
> ...


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

That's not the way I read it. In the context mentioned, being we are talking about running depth, it reads as he is talking about on plane. He doesn't mention poling until the end, but does mention the power plant at the quote. Getting into to me refers to any means used as most guys I know use it to describe draft on plane.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

Well, I know im going to get blasted on this! But a boat can run in less than 10" of water. How do I know because I can run over bars/flats at WOT that if I slowed down for I would be sitting on the bottom, waiting for high tide.  And yes some times I'm scrubbing the bottom but sometimes I'm not clean water in the wash. The action craft I fish on will run through about 9" clean and I can push over about 6" scrubbing. (Which even though most I see say not to do, I don't have a problem with, do it just about everytime I'm out) and yes if I hit something hard I would do a lot of damage to my rig. Just my .02 I should also say that I don't run that shallow for a long distance no more than 50 yards MAX!!!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

> The action craft I fish on will run through about 9" clean and I can push over about 6" scrubbing.


See now that seems like a reasonable statement to me. At 9 inches most of your prop would still be in the water, you won't be at max speed but can still stay on plane. 

As far as tearing up the bottom, if it's mud or sand then that's ok, you are just hurting yourself, but if you are ripping up the grass flats.....thats a different story and in most places illegal too.


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm pretty close to max speed, twisting it hard 5400-5500rpm's.. 


It's all sand and mud up here, oh unless your off a little then it might be an oyster bar!


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

Hell FC, every hull listed could plane in 4" or even less... with a surface drive mud motor It would kinda look like a tiller race, but no one mentioned elegance as a design parameter.

Nate


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Some boats draft less when stationary than they do when running.

I believe Brett experienced that with his 125lb grass slipper.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

After lots of research, fishing and riding I finally choose to have a Beavertail BT3 built which was the best mix of performance, fit n finish and value for my needs. What sealed the deal was flying to Florida and meetng the new owners of Beavertail - Will and Liz Leslie who are class acts and the kind of people you would trust your kids with let alone building your skiff.


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Wow, just found this thread! Lots of good information and also some pighead jack holes...

Anyhow, Hahn let us know how the boat works out for you? Where in Texas you located? I'd love to see the new boat once it arrives.


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## levip (Dec 4, 2010)

i like the looks of that sterling.... did you test float that one or?


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## Capt. Gregg McKee (Sep 28, 2007)

Hahn, congrats on purchasing a BT3. You're really going to be thrilled with that boat and its capabilities. I've had mine for almost two months now and I'm more impressed with it every day. My clients really rave about how comfortable the ride is and especially how dry it runs. It's actually difficult to get wet in this boat. Be sure to post some photos of the build whenever you get them from Liz. Good luck.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

I thought the same thing about teh STerlings looks and at on paper it looked even better for what I wanted out of a poling skiff. Unfortunately after 3 months of trying I could not arrange a wet test in Texas which was VERY frustrating so the TR7 did not make the final list.



> i like the looks of that sterling.... did you test float that one or?


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

Gramps,

Agreed on good info shared by the members and a few pigheads as well but in my estimation that is what a forum like this is about, one must apply their own filter and use what they want 

I live north of Austin and the new owner of Beavertail will be delivering the boat to Austin. He along with the skiff will be at Sportaman's Finest Saturday January 28th from 11 -3 to answer questions about Beavertail and the boats specs if you are near the area. http://www.sportsmansfinest.com/




> Wow, just found this thread! Lots of good information and also some pighead jack holes...
> 
> Anyhow, Hahn let us know how the boat works out for you? Where in Texas you located?  I'd love to see the new boat once it arrives.


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## levip (Dec 4, 2010)

> I thought the same thing about teh STerlings looks and at on paper it looked even better for what I wanted out of a poling skiff.  Unfortunately after 3 months of trying I could not arrange a wet test in Texas which was VERY frustrating so the TR7 did not make the final list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah that sux noone wanted to get one wet or WTF?


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

A few build picks of the new BT3 








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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

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## Guest (Jan 22, 2012)

The skiff is looking very nice! Like the tunnel!


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

A few more build pics...







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## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

She's a beauty! Nice skiff.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

> She's a beauty!  Nice skiff.


Thanks, she arrives here in Texas Friday - going to be a KICK AZZ weekend!


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## Capt. Gregg McKee (Sep 28, 2007)

How about some photos of her on the water?


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## Beavertail (Jul 2, 2011)

You will love that skiff every day and hours you spend on it welcome to the family!!!!!!!!!!!!


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