# Fly line to butt section rigging help



## byates (Jan 12, 2016)

the method in the video is how I do it, with a bit of Zap at the half-hitch. Works great.
Easiest way to rig is to have something to anchor the end of butt section to when tightening the half hitch. Tighten that hitch until you think the fly line coating will split, then trim close and Zap-a-gap.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> So I've progressed from using the factory welded loops to tying my own with nail knots and just done a loop-to-loop but seen several guys who swear by nail knotting a piece of heavy mono (or flouro) to the fly line as the butt section. The only catch is they tie the nail knot using the same length of mono that serves as the butt section. So it's not like there are the two pieces of line next to each other.
> 
> Basically, I'm trying to do this but it's hard as hell to get right and I haven't gotten it right. Any of y'all do this and if so do you have at trick other than practice?


Don't trust guys with a tat shirt on and tats all over. Just me
Get an Orvis
Snelling/Nail knot tool and your worries are over


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Finn, have you tried the braided loop connectors? It's an easy way to get a secure connection over a longer piece of flyline for a loop to loop connection to your leader system, rather and about 1/8" length of knot at the very tip of the flyline with a nail knot. A hard jerk can strip that piece of coating right off the flyline (believe me, I know).

I'm not a fan of what the guy in the video is doing. It's ok to use for a quick setup, especially for smaller fish. But I don't trust it for bigger fish. It's only as strong as your outside poly coating on the flyline core at the very tip of the flyline. The last halfhitch is basically only adding a bump in the outside core. If yanked hard, then the piece of poly coating, along with the bump can be stripped off the inner core right at that spot. About 60-70% of your flyline strength comes from the flyline core.

So here is a different way to get a streamline connection with the advantage of a loop connection to your leader system, as well as taking advantage of the strength of the inner core. You can do this by using a double nail knoting a piece of leader material to the fly line using a unique connection and then adding a loop at the end to do a loop to loop connection to the butt section of your leader.

Start off stripping the last 2-3" of the outside core off the inner core of the end of your fly line. You have to be careful not to cut or nick the inner core. Next, take a 2ft or so (to give you working room) piece of mono, mason or fluorocarbon that will either match the same size line as the 1st part of your butt leader or go up by 10lb test. Make sure this piece matches the material you will be using in your butt section of your leader (i.e mono to mono, mason to mason, FC to FC). In other words, if you are using 30lb test for the 1st part of your butt leader, then use 30-40lb test for the piece you are going to nail knot onto your fly line. I prefer going up 1 size. So say if I was using 30lb test butt leader material for the 1st part of by butt leader, then I'll use 40lb test to make that loop connector to the fly line (note, as long as the diameter ad stiffness doesn't exceed both on the fly line).

Take the piece of leader material (in this case, we'll call it "mono" to shorten up the term) and about halfway on the mono, tie a nail knot about a 1/8 to a 1/4" from the end of the flyline before the outside core was stripped off. The 2-3" inner core will just hang past the nail knot. So cinch that knot down really good. Take the tag end of the mono that points up the fly line and go up about a 1/2" to as much as an inch up the fly line from the 1st nail knot. There you will tie in a 2nd nail knot. Make sure you get all the slack out of the mono that runs between the 2 knots before you cinch it down, then pull the tag upwards from the nail knot, up the fly line, while pulling downwards on the other tag end from the 1st nail knot, away from the nail knot. In other words, both tag ends will be pulled opposing each other. So cinch that 2nd nail knot down really tight. Clip the tag end that faces up the fly line. At this point, this is called a "double tail nail knot!" What is remaining is the 2-3" innercore piece hanging there. What you are going to do with that is tie in a "Huffnagel knot" with it. So you will take the innercore piece, do a half hitch around the mono and cinch it up to the 1st nail knot. I'd use a pair of fishing or needle nose pliers to help grab and cinch this tag down since it's thin and slippery. Then take that innercore tag, go back up the mono and loop wrap 4 times and cinch that back down very tightly towards the 1st nail knot, stopping at the very end where the outer core was stripped off the inner core, just past the 1st nail knot. Look up how to tie a huffnagel knot to get a better understanding on that. Then clip that tag off. Geeze, I hope you can get your head wrapped around that. Finally place a drop or 2 of super glue on each nail knot and Huffnagel knot.

Finally, tie in a Lefty Krey loop knot or my 2 turn non-slip loop knot (Haas loop knot) or a non-slip mono loop knot, about 6-12" away from the fly line (or whatever you have left over). Those loop knots will face the tag pointing towards the leader, to ward off slime and seaweed from hanging up on the tag.

The end result will be a fairly permanent, strong and stealthy flyline connection to do a loop to loop connection to your leader system.

IF, you want no loops in your leader to fly line connection, then at least to the "double tail nail knot" (with the half hitch bump in the flyline) connection with your bigger rods, like 8wt and above for bigger species. The process of stripping the outer core is a PITA, with the Huffnegal, so I save that for a more permanent connection with a loop.

Ted Haas


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Thanks for the info Backwater. Gotta be honest, I'm completely lost at what you're describing. At any rate I figured out what I was doing wrong and have the nail knot with the the half-hitch connection covered with Loon UV knot sense on my primary 8 & 10wt rigs.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Sorry that it sounded complicated. I'm thinking of doing videos to describe things quicker and easier.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Backwater said:


> Sorry that it sounded complicated. I'm thinking of doing videos to describe things quicker and easier.


No worries. Just a lot of info to try and visualize.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> No worries. Just a lot of info to try and visualize.


The simple version is that you are stripping the outside poly coating 2-3"s off the end of your fly line,Taking a 2ft piece of 40lb mono, you are doing a nail knot (leaving at least a 6" tag to work with) at the end of the flyline, but not on the exposed fly line inner core tag. Cinch that nail knot down really good. With the remaining long tag from the nail knot, go up the flyline about 1/2" or so and make another nail knot with that long tag. Get any slack out between the knots first before you cinch the 2nd nail knot down, then cinch that knot down really good. Grab that tag and the the remaining mono sticking out of the 1st nail knot and pull tight, opposing each other. Clip the tag off the 2nd nail knot. The mono line or tag between the two nail knots will remain. Use the stripped innercore to tie a huffnagel knot around the remaining mono, kinda like what you would tie tokgeep a bimini from unraveling. Cinch that down good and clip off the innercore tag off the knot. Take the remaining knot and tie in a loop knot about 6" from the fly line (1st nail knot). Place a few drops of superglue on each knot. Bham, yer done! 

In this video, this guy is tying running line to a leader. He makes a surgeons loop to form a figure 8. Then he takes the running line and goes thru the figure eight, then cinches down the figure eight. I wanted to show you this video so you can see how I wanted you to use the stripped innercore tag of the fly line and wrap it around the mono coming out of the 1st nail knot. For me, I start by wrapping around once (half hitch) to lock it down. Then go up and do a 4-5 turn knot like he is doing in the video. All that gets pull upwards and cinched down towards the 1st nail knot. Then the tag is clipped off and knot glued.






Btw, this is not me in the video.

Good luck!

Ted Haas


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

That's Mark Sosan 
Slim beauty seems better and is straighter 

Used to think Mark was an arrogant .......but I saw an interview of him in his house and he seems like a nice guy. Just bad acting is his problem


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

My two cents
Take the end of your fly line and cut it on an angle. Lay that flat piece back on the fly line creating a small loop. You can glue those two sides together. Then take your fly tying bobbin and wrap it to secure it. Next take your 50 lb. Butt and Snell it on the end the take your long piece and put it through the hole in the loop of the fly line. This is secure and straight


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## Ryan_Montesino (Feb 5, 2015)

Albright and call it a day


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ryan_Montesino said:


> Albright and call it a day


That'll work! lol


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

I always cut the loops off and use this tool 



.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

Too late.

Got some old fly line and practiced making a perfect little nail knot and got good at it. So now my 8, 10, and 12wt rigs have butt sections nail knotted in (with the half-hitch) and covered with UV knot sense.

I'll see if I can't get some good pics and post them. I'm pretty pleased with how they came out.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Forgive me if this isn't the place (don't want to derail the thread), but what's the advantage of cutting off the loops and knotting directly to a butt section? Trying to stiffen up or eliminate hinging at the loop/loop connection, or maybe lack of trust of the factory loops? Or, something else that I don't know about?

Thanks,

Bryson


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

bryson said:


> Forgive me if this isn't the place (don't want to derail the thread), but what's the advantage of cutting off the loops and knotting directly to a butt section? Trying to stiffen up or eliminate hinging at the loop/loop connection, or maybe lack of trust of the factory loops? Or, something else that I don't know about?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bryson


Yes, both reducing/eliminating the hinging and lack of trust in the factory loops. Plus, if you need to bring the connection inside the rod tip to land a fish the nail knot is smaller and smoother than the loop-to-loop.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

Best way: tie a Bimini twist (about a 3' loop) into your backing. Super easy knot to tie once you practice a few times. I'm sure there are youtube videos for your viewing please to help walk you through it. I use the bimini right to the welded loop in the fly line. If for whatever reason you need a new loop in your fly line, I'd say the strongest way is to bend it over on itself (if you can, splice in back through) and then put two nail knots over the doubled over or spliced line to secure it. A bit of zap a gap and that thing won't go anywhere (a nail not/splicing tool with the hook is a must). The bimini is key though in the case you ever need to do a "quick" line change. Just my 2 cents - I know there are a ton of different good ways to achieve the same intent.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

tgjohnso said:


> Best way: tie a Bimini twist (about a 3' loop) into your backing. Super easy knot to tie once you practice a few times. I'm sure there are youtube videos for your viewing please to help walk you through it. I use the bimini right to the welded loop in the fly line. If for whatever reason you need a new loop in your fly line, I'd say the strongest way is to bend it over on itself (if you can, splice in back through) and then put two nail knots over the doubled over or spliced line to secure it. A bit of zap a gap and that thing won't go anywhere (a nail not/splicing tool with the hook is a must). The bimini is key though in the case you ever need to do a "quick" line change. Just my 2 cents - I know there are a ton of different good ways to achieve the same intent.


I've already got the Bimini connecting my backing to my fly line. But I clipped off the welded loops and made my own with double or triple nail knots. I was talking about the fly line to the butt section of the leader, not the backing.


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