# Re: Poling Skiff to Buy as Second Boat: East Cape Glide, HB Whipray, Maverick HPX Tunnel



## mariscos (Jun 19, 2015)

Thanks. Believe it or not the Caimen is where I started looking. Forgot to mention it above. I plan to fly to Orlando and water test the east cape boats if Kevin can make that happen and I assume he can. 

Saw a guy in Choko over the weekend with an East Cape Lostmen and he said the Caimen was tippy. Then again I'm sure any 60" beam boat is relatively more tippy than a 70" beam. Like I said this will be a second boat so I am willing to make sacrifices for shallow draft, running, and polability.


----------



## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

Stability wise, the Lostmen would be a better fit. It's definitely not as dry as a Caimen but gets as skinny as you would need. A Whipray or HPX would also be a great rig. It's pretty much going to depend on the used market if those are what your looking for.


----------



## mariscos (Jun 19, 2015)

What do you think of this one? Jack plate and tunnel could be perfect for Choko.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1429918502/0


----------



## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

1. Go to ECC and check out their operation and get test rides with Kevin, or Adam, or Marc.
2. Looks hard at the Caimen. I have two buddies that have them and I think it is a superb poling skiff.
3. Buying a boat with ECC is not a "lackluster" experience IMO. 

Lastly go back to #1. Visit them and decide for yourself how you feel about their operation. Do enough research and you will find guys who bash every single boat builder out there even Hells Bay. Its your money and nobody can decide what is best for you but you!


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

The Lostman is not tippy and poles great, skinny but very wet running in small chop


----------



## MSG (Jan 11, 2010)

> What do you think of this one? Jack plate and tunnel could be perfect for Choko.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1429918502/0


Buy this- great boat for what you want to do and your money will be safe


----------



## Beavertail (Jul 2, 2011)

> > What do you think of this one? Jack plate and tunnel could be perfect for Choko.
> >
> > http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1429918502/0
> 
> ...



x2


----------



## mariscos (Jun 19, 2015)

I spoke to Kevin at ECC today. Outstanding individual. Did not even care if I bought used or new, just took his time explaining options to me to inform my decision. 

If his responsiveness and follow up are any indication, I'm sure the buying experience at ECC is world class. 

I intend to travel there and water test some boats.


----------



## cdaffin (Apr 4, 2012)

Just don't get in a VHP w/ 150 or you might be getting rid of your big bird.


----------



## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Love talking with Kevin at ECC. In fact I still want to someday get them to build me a Lostmen scooter deck all tricked out for REALLY ultra shallow running for deep southTX. Very much a specialty boat to run anywhere under 6" all day long. But for my first TPS I wanted a Hells Bay Professional that will also do Baffin Bay in the winter. Biggest trout ever caught in South Bay Port Isabel at 31.5" 10 lbs. 1.5 ounces and I want to beat that. A Marquesa WOULD be sweet... =)


----------



## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

I vote for the Caimen but I am biased. I have a non-liner version of the Caimen and if you thought that the standard skiff was skinny you aint seen nothing yet. Do yourself a favor and ask about the lite version of the Caimen.


----------



## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Would strongly consider a Chittum 2 degree. Check their facebook / instagram the latest 2degree w a 40 floats in nothing.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Have a look at the Cayo 173. It's a hair bigger than the caimen. You would spend a little less money, have a little different boat than everyone else, it's a win win.


----------



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

X3 on ECC.. I can only speak on behalf of the glide. Poles effortlessly, floats/launches in nothing, eats chop but is tippy of course because of the beam.


----------



## E-money (Jul 7, 2016)

Or you can look at going with a tiller ECC Fury  and basically have a dry Lostmen


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> Have a look at the Cayo 173. It's a hair bigger than the caimen. You would spend a little less money, have a little different boat than everyone else, it's a win win.


Caimen is 17'10" and 60" beam


----------



## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

You're in Orlando. Go to ECC then go to HB. Look at the whole package. Build process materials finish etc. and finally resale value. HB will hold its value better. Period. Enjoy the process!


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

sotilloa1078 said:


> You're in Orlando. Go to ECC then go to HB. Look at the whole package. Build process materials finish etc. and finally resale value. HB will hold its value better. Period. Enjoy the process!


Capt Alonzo,
Maybe 9-10 yrs ago that analogy would be correct... not true so Much anymore. Enjoy your HB as they and others do good. Meanwhile we will keep doing what we're doing...
Kevin


----------



## sotilloa1078 (Mar 27, 2014)

Kev, never meant anything negative in my statement so I hope you didn't take it as such. I'm sure your boats are holding a good re sale value, but.... Not saying the others don't hold their value just saying the market speaks for itself. Hope all is well.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

East Cape said:


> Caimen is 17'10" and 60" beam


Would that make it bigger or smaller?


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> Would that make it bigger or smaller?


Bigger.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

East Cape said:


> Bigger.


Damn. I thought the Cayo was just a touch bigger, but it seems they are even closer than I thought. Just for the sake of discussion we should give the 173's dimensions and the caimen dimensions side by side

Cayo
17'3'' w/out sponsons
62'' beam

Caimen 
17'10'' w/ sponsons
60'' beam

That's a fair comparison, right?


----------



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Personally in this case I'd do a Glide. I love that skiff. As with everything else at ECC completely customizable


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> Damn. I thought the Cayo was just a touch bigger, but it seems they are even closer than I thought. Just for the sake of discussion we should give the 173's dimensions and the caimen dimensions side by side
> 
> Cayo
> 17'3'' w/out sponsons
> ...




Well if we count the rub-rail then we would be wider too I guess. LOL
I do know we have higher sides as well, but I was just commenting on the size being smaller.


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

sotilloa1078 said:


> Kev, never meant anything negative in my statement so I hope you didn't take it as such. I'm sure your boats are holding a good re sale value, but.... Not saying the others don't hold their value just saying the market speaks for itself. Hope all is well.



All is good and thanks for asking. About your comments... just know IMHO we disagree on this. Take care and be safe out there! I'm a big supporter/fan of public safety.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

East Cape said:


> Well if we count the rub-rail then we would be wider too I guess. LOL
> I do know we have higher sides as well, but I was just commenting on the size being smaller.


Who's doing the measuring? An African swallow or a European swallow?


----------



## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

jmrodandgun said:


> Who's doing the measuring? An African swallow or a European swallow?


Knights that say ni!


----------



## Austin Bustamante (May 11, 2015)

Lostmen all the way!
Get spray rails to help with spray, goes anywhere the fish are!





  








IMG_0260




__
Austin Bustamante


__
Dec 4, 2016











  








IMG_0249




__
Austin Bustamante


__
Dec 4, 2016


----------



## Limp Shrimp (Aug 23, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> Who's doing the measuring? An African swallow or a European swallow?


Is the beam measured from the outer edges of the cap or the hull?


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Limp Shrimp said:


> Is the beam measured from the outer edges of the cap or the hull?


Some say it's the widest point of the boat and some say it's the average between the widest point and the widest point at the water line. There seems to be a grey area here. I would guess the true beam would be the widest part of the actual hull, not the cap but I am not sure.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Limp Shrimp said:


> Is the beam measured from the outer edges of the cap or the hull?


Who the hell knows. My old boat was listed by the manufacturer as having a beam of 70 inches. There was no part of that boat that was 70 inches wide. It's widest was around midship and if you hooked one end a tape under the rub rail and stretched it to the bottom of the rub rail in the other side you could get pretty close. The water line at the transom was under 50. 

Length is another goofy one. Is a 17'10'' boat with sponsons _longer _than a 17'3'' boat without sponsons?


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

East Cape said:


> Well if we count the rub-rail then we would be wider too I guess. LOL


So I got curious about your 60 inch beam/width/whatever number. The measurements you gave in this thread for the caimen don't even match the measurements given on your website which list it at 17'10'' with a 61.5'' "width."



> I was just commenting on the size being smaller.


This is debatable.


----------



## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Here's my second boat. Seems to get pretty shallow and fits more than two anglers.
View attachment 3726
View attachment 3727


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> So I got curious about your 60 inch beam/width/whatever number. The measurements you gave in this thread for the caimen don't even match the measurements given on your website which list it at 17'10'' with a 61.5'' "width."
> 
> 
> 
> This is debatable.


I guess you didn't like my answer of the Caimen being bigger. Didn't mean to get you all jazzed up sir but 17'10 is longer than 17'3" and the width I gave you was without rub-rail and yes I also mentioned if I counted rub-rail it would still be wider than the other brand. Take care!
Kevin


----------



## Flatsaholic (Apr 28, 2016)

Check out the new Beavertail Mosquito. I have had mine for about 4 weeks and I love it. I would not trade it for any other skiff.

Length 18' 2"
Width 70"

This skiff shines with its poling abilities. Extremely shallow and poles effortlessly. I can pole into 15mph winds with 20mph gust with ease and its completely silent.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

East Cape said:


> I guess you didn't like my answer of the Caimen being bigger


That's a stretch. All I was doing was pointing out no two builders measure their boats the same. Not even you can give a consistent answer. 



East Cape said:


> I also mentioned if I counted rub-rail it would still be wider than the other brand. Take care!


How can you say that when not a single number you have given has been wider than the others advertised width. I honestly don't know, I was just going over a web site to web site comparison. You're the one bringing up this rub rail nonsense. Just going by the numbers on the websites one is a hair more narrow. I'm having a hard time understanding why that is a bad thing for either? It just seems like a really odd number to try and fudge an inch in either direction. 

To be perfectly honest, I don't think either one of us knows for sure.


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> That's a stretch. All I was doing was pointing out no two builders measure their boats the same. Not even you can give a consistent answer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is my last response to you. I have given you a "consistent" answer. It's just you don't like my answer. LOL
The Caimen is bigger.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

You're being an ass for not a very good reason, but whatever. Not sure why I'm surprised.


----------



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

I mean you were kind of poking the bear there not sure he was being anymore of an ass than you. Either way looks like measurements are the Caimen is bigger. 

Anyway I stand by my comments of the Glide. You could really trick out a new Glide to make it exactly how you want it and it would be able get around anywhere you want to go. My buddy almost went with an old Whip not too long ago but I think he's decided after his baby isn't so new he's going to build a new Glide.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Where I come from, 62 inches is wider than 60 inches 

The whole thing is silly anyway because if you measured to the outside of the fenders of the trailer they are both the same.


----------



## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

jmrodandgun said:


> Where I come from, 62 inches is wider than 60 inches


Kinda like 17' 10" is longer than 17'3" huh? And I'm only .5" off per my "max beam" and still higher sides too. And yes you got me to post again. I write this in the most "chill/relaxed" form so know it would be like us having a beer at a bar just talking fishing...
Life is too short to get upset!


----------



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

View attachment 3753


----------



## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Every forum is like this...99% of us would get along like brothers if we met, fished or had a beer in person but online it is too easy to type some BS. People need to relax.


----------



## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Ah this forum is relatively mild compared to some... Competition Diesel and Pirate 4X4 come to mind and better not go there if ya got thin skin. At least here a person new to the world of technical poling skiffs and fly fishing can ask a question without need for a flame resistant suit...
=)


----------



## J-Dad (Aug 30, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Every forum is like this...99% of us would get along like brothers if we met, fished or had a beer in person but *online it is too easy to type some BS.* People need to relax.


 Nailed it. My biggest issue with social media.


----------



## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Can't we all just get along thats the good thing about this country if you don't like his boat don't buy it if you do then buy one. Everyone is going to say his boat is better than the next guy human nature.


----------



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Go and check out SCducks.com I've been a member for almost 4 years and haven't had the balls to say more than a few things. Same with the drake, this is pretty mild but still fun to get blood boiling every once in a while. Nobody should be getting pissy though that's just not fun.


----------



## Megalops (Oct 23, 2011)

Thread's a year and a half old, the first few posts were deleted; why resurrect it?


----------



## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

AND all the top Florida boat manufacturers make such good quality boats that there are great alternatives for each price point so there is no factual basis for any bashing either. Now I would NOT say that about any Texas built boats. The FL built boats (top mfg talking) are just head and shoulders above everyone else. Even the fishing / boating forums are better...


----------



## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Megalops said:


> Thread's a year and a half old, the first few posts were deleted; why resurrect it?


Because a lot of the old threads tend to be super relevant and can (should) be expanded upon. IMHO


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

East Cape said:


> I write this in the most "chill/relaxed" form so know it would be like us having a beer at a bar just talking fishing...


Tone doesn't transfer well on a forum post. You know how it goes. 

It's interesting and valid discussion because nobody really thinks too much about who's method of measurement someone is using.... There is a dick joke in there somewhere. Beam by definition is the widest part of a hull or max width including overhangs so it's hard to accept that a boat could have more than one beam measurement depending on who you're asking.


----------

