# Turks and Caicos/Beyond the Blue???



## BarHopper (May 23, 2016)

Hey everyone - we are looking seriously at the above lodge - any experiences, time of year, hot flies, tips, etc. would be much appreciated - thanks in advance!


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

BarHopper said:


> Hey everyone - we are looking seriously at the above lodge - any experiences, time of year, hot flies, tips, etc. would be much appreciated - thanks in advance!


It has changed hands. Now called dragon cay resort. Recent reviews are spotty. Food is an issue on middle Caicos. The restaraunt at dragon cay is apparently only open for lunch. There are no other options on middle Caicos which necessitates about a 20-30 minute drive to north Caicos. No grocery stores on middle Caicos either. There are small groceries on north but hours are very limited on Sunday's, ok other days, and selection is small. They often run out of perishables like bread, fruits, vegs. Prices are about double plus. There are three small restaurants on north Caicos near the defunct airport. There is fourth run by the kayak rental guy closer to the causeway but we've not tried it. We don't rent kayaks, we bring inflatable sups. They soak you something like 85 a day for one plus more to transport it and pick you up, I think. We rent car from Al's. He also rents kayaks and I think he has a trailer he lets you use for free. Scooter bobs rents cars and someone told me if you rent a car from him and he doesn't have anyone renting his ecolodge he'll let you use the kayaks he has on his property at bottle creek. How true this is I can't vouch. You need to time your flights to be sure you can catch a ferry both ways. It is a 20 plus minute taxi ride. $42 for the taxi for a party of 2, $50 each round trip for the ferry.

I'm down there now. Third trip this winter. Less fish so far, but only been here two days. Less fisherman, too. Fishing here is not as simple as the diy book makes it sound. Wind is about 20 kts give or take five most days. You need a kayak or sup to access it. Plan on a 1 mile exposed paddle, usually into the wind to get there. In bottle creek you can paddle only 200 yards then walk the rest, but a 1-1.5 mile wade to start the day is work. Once there you have some shelter from the east wind, but if the fish aren't in there repositioning can be hard. 
in the causeway you need to cross deeper water and deal with current.
The fishing is not automatic. If you can find fish and make the cast they are not fussy. Gotchas work fine. You'll want some small stuff and some light stuff since a lot of chances come in shallow water at tailing fish, particularly in the early am. Some places have either grass or red sponge so bring a few flies with weed guards. Finding fish is the hard part. Some days it's easy and some days it seems impossible. There is nothing consistent about any of the spots we fish. You have miles and miles of flats, tides are very complicated and confusing. This is our 4th time here for a week each time and it seems water depths are getting harder rather than easier to predict. That's a problem because a 2" change in depth may mean the fish are 1-2 miles away from where you found them a day or two earlier. Because you are fishing in creek systems there is a significant time delay but there is also a significant effect from wind direction, and moon phase of course.
There is a guide who works the area called Darin Bain. Expensive, however. 
Overall it is a cool place. People are very friendly and scarce. North Caicos doesn't offer much for the wife but middle Caicos has better beaches (there is a true beauty north of haul over point) and walks from what I gather.
Good luck if you go. Put time and effort in and you'll find fish.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

Wow just a little info there! You should make a travel guide.


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## BarHopper (May 23, 2016)

numbskull said:


> It has changed hands. Now called dragon cay resort. Recent reviews are spotty. Food is an issue on middle Caicos. The restaraunt at dragon cay is apparently only open for lunch. There are no other options on middle Caicos which necessitates about a 20-30 minute drive to north Caicos. No grocery stores on middle Caicos either. There are small groceries on north but hours are very limited on Sunday's, ok other days, and selection is small. They often run out of perishables like bread, fruits, vegs. Prices are about double plus. There are three small restaurants on north Caicos near the defunct airport. There is fourth run by the kayak rental guy closer to the causeway but we've not tried it. We don't rent kayaks, we bring inflatable sups. They soak you something like 85 a day for one plus more to transport it and pick you up, I think. We rent car from Al's. He also rents kayaks and I think he has a trailer he lets you use for free. Scooter bobs rents cars and someone told me if you rent a car from him and he doesn't have anyone renting his ecolodge he'll let you use the kayaks he has on his property at bottle creek. How true this is I can't vouch. You need to time your flights to be sure you can catch a ferry both ways. It is a 20 plus minute taxi ride. $42 for the taxi for a party of 2, $50 each round trip for the ferry.
> 
> I'm down there now. Third trip this winter. Less fish so far, but only been here two days. Less fisherman, too. Fishing here is not as simple as the diy book makes it sound. Wind is about 20 kts give or take five most days. You need a kayak or sup to access it. Plan on a 1 mile exposed paddle, usually into the wind to get there. In bottle creek you can paddle only 200 yards then walk the rest, but a 1-1.5 mile wade to start the day is work. Once there you have some shelter from the east wind, but if the fish aren't in there repositioning can be hard.
> in the causeway you need to cross deeper water and deal with current.
> ...


Thanks so much, numbskull - I will keep y'all posted!


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

You can trust what numbskull says in my experience. I am going back next weekend. The thing is when you find the fish they eat and they are good sized!!


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Don't know if it matters but I saw yesterday the State Department issued a warning to Americans vacationing at the Turks and Caicos. 

It was directed mostly at Spring Breakers but it caught me by surprise.


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## BarHopper (May 23, 2016)

More good info, guys! - that State Department warning is kinda' worrisome - a P.S.... I did some double checking and think that maybe there was some confusion between Blue Horizon, on Middle Caicos which has become Dragon Cay Resort and Beyond the Blue (where we are headed) which is on South Caicos - thanks again!


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

I was there in January for a week. The info @numbskull provided is legit. The wind blew 25-30 the entire week I was there but I managed to get into a few fish that were hard won. Didn’t have any issues security wise on Provo, but I have spent plenty of time in sketchy places so YMMV. Generally don’t do stupid things, in stupid places with stupid people and you’ll have a blast.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

When are you going? I will be there Sunday doing DIY. My buddy just got back, he was taking a break from bonefishing and throwing the spinning rod on the beach. He had a 1/2oz jig had with a soft plastic and steel leader and caught another bonefish!!


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

BarHopper said:


> More good info, guys! - that State Department warning is kinda' worrisome - a P.S.... I did some double checking and think that maybe there was some confusion between Blue Horizon, on Middle Caicos which has become Dragon Cay Resort and Beyond the Blue (where we are headed) which is on South Caicos - thanks again!


Lol. That was a lot of typing for nothing then. Beyond the blue is supposed to be great. I met a fly shop owner from Colorado down here last trip who had fished 1-2 days with them and he raved about it. I prefer DIY fishing but have an older friend who wants to take a guided trip somewhere. I've been trying to get him to bite on this lodge. Please post some follow up once you've done it.


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

I think travel advisories regard Provo. There is a big Haitian crime problem according to the locals on Caicos. North and Middle Caicos seem very sleepy and safe. People are very friendly and helpful.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Now I am not saying there isn't a crime issue, but travel warnings like that have a substantial impact to the economies in those countries. Mexico got hit hard by it over a decade ago and much of it was secular, but the media hyped it. I've been to T&C before and never felt an issue anywhere on the island.

@numbskull nailed the fishing - it is challenging, but you can get great rewards. I did really well on North, but worked my butt off to do it. The fish in super shallow are the easier ones to find, but always stay a little deeper, maybe a foot, and work back and forth between a little deeper and shallow. The big ones hang off to the side in the deeper water. Caught some beasts there.

And to give you an idea of how different the islands are - Provo is a tourist hub - mega resorts are there - as is most of the population - about 25k. Move over to North and the population goes to about 1,300 or so. Moving onto Middle and there is less than 200 people. East is un populated and an area I'd love to take a live aboard and some skiffs to explore. South has about as much as North, about 1,300. I felt like the only person on the island when I fished Middle. Make sure to have a cell phone that works - you can not see a car for hours on Middle.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

I keep a skiff in Provo and fish 4-5 trips per year for years. For years the government restricted netting bones. In the past couple years they have started again. Bone population is way down. Used to be pretty easy but now you have to run far and work hard. 
Also, airboats on the flats near South Caicos are not helping things there either


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Fly Junkie said:


> I keep a skiff in Provo and fish 4-5 trips per year for years. For years the government restricted netting bones. In the past couple years they have started again. Bone population is way down. Used to be pretty easy but now you have to run far and work hard.
> Also, airboats on the flats near South Caicos are not helping things there either


Wow that sucks, I can’t believe they are allowing that again. They are very easy decimate by netting. I don’t like the idea of airports ripping across flats either. Did you buy your skiff there or bring it over? Asking because a friend and I were thinking about same thing


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Fly Junkie said:


> I keep a skiff in Provo and fish 4-5 trips per year for years.





Fishshoot said:


> Did you buy your skiff there or bring it over? Asking because a friend and I were thinking about same thing


You guys should work something out, possibly renting it.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

I bought mine in Ft Lauderdale and sent on the ferry
They think it’s ok if they use 4” netting so they only catch the big bones


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Well I just spoke to my friend and it seems like this fishery is sadly in process of being destroyed. He saw turtle poachers down south along with nets being placed in major cuts between islands.


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## tkflyfish (Feb 26, 2016)

I am headed there in May with the Family.. Is there any wade fishing in Provo? Sounds like bottle creek is the best option, but sounds like a bit of a process to access from provo.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

Definitely need a guide... use to be some small bones in Chalk Sound but they have all been eaten. 
I would call Ed withCatch the Wave... great guy, very good guide. Remember they are all expensive expensive on Provo
Good luck!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Why would you go that far for such hard fishing. I thought GT where there
Abaco or Exumma may be better
But I've never been to any of these places


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

It’s not that hard, you just have to go to the right places. In the past there were bones about everywhere. GTs are only in the pacific and Indian I think. Also, the quality of bones is great in Turks


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

Much better quality than Exuma or Abaco


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

permitchaser said:


> Why would you go that far for such hard fishing. I thought GT where there
> Abaco or Exumma may be better
> But I've never been to any of these places


When I was there last year it wasn’t hard, fish readily ate and smallest I caught was 4lbs largest 9lbs. I am a little concerned with the resurgence of netting. However the lack of pressure, not seeing another angler for a week and beautiful seclusion are worth it for me.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

Those are some of the reasons I go there and it’s my favorite bonefish destination


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

Anybody heading down there? I need a mule to bring me back some Bambarra rum.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

Haha.. great stuff but I’m hooked on the Presidente Beer imported from DR... the best beer is have swallowed!!


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

Just got back from North and Middle Caicos. Fishing was slow relative to same tides in Dec (and different tides in Jan). 
I presume the fish were somewhere else, perhaps off spawning? I've not seen any signs of netting activity and the locals, many who netted fish in their youth, say there is no local market for bonefish except on South Caicos.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Well I just got here and will start fishing tomorrow. It was pretty awesome
This time last year, I hope it is at least decent.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

I think you guys have misunderstood me... the fishing is still good, but compared to a couple years back the fish numbers are down. I attribute this to the netting. I never use to see nets and the government enforced no netting. I’m the past year and that is 4 7 day trips. I see a couple nets each day. And have to work much harder for the fish. 
Btw, you can buy bones in the 5 Cays area of Provo. And turtle meat.


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

Fly Junkie said:


> I think you guys have misunderstood me... the fishing is still good, but compared to a couple years back the fish numbers are down. I attribute this to the netting. I never use to see nets and the government enforced no netting.


Interesting. On which island are you seeing nets?


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

Fishshoot said:


> Well I just got here and will start fishing tomorrow. It was pretty awesome
> This time last year, I hope it is at least decent.


Good luck. Now that I'm gone the place is likely to be crawling with fish. 
Please post an update on how you make out.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

Middle and East is where I saw them in Feb 2019


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## BarHopper (May 23, 2016)

All good stuff everyone - anyone pursue or bump into any muttons on the those flats?


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

Never a mutton


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

I've seen a picture of a very nice mutton snapper caught on spinning tackle fishing from shore near Mudjin Harbor, and another huge one caught on a reef charter trip so they are around although I've not seen any on a flat. There are reportedly tarpon in a few cuts. I'd guess permit are possible but have no direct information on that. Most fishing is done up inside large creek systems which likely drops the odds of finding a permit.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

permitchaser said:


> Why would you go that far for such hard fishing. I thought GT where there
> Abaco or Exumma may be better
> But I've never been to any of these places


Was that an attempt at a Haiku?


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

N


numbskull said:


> I've seen a picture of a very nice mutton snapper caught on spinning tackle fishing from shore near Mudjin Harbor, and another huge one caught on a reef charter trip so they are around although I've not seen any on a flat. There are reportedly tarpon in a few cuts. I'd guess permit are possible but have no direct information on that. Most fishing is done up inside large creek systems which likely drops the odds of finding a permit.


Never saw a permit there, but also I was on the inside, not ocean-side. I would think they would be there, but need access to deeper water. Lots of big big bones though.


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## Barbs_deep (Jul 4, 2010)

They net there. Saw quite a few boats netting in heavily populated bonefishing areas. Not good. I saw marked decline in fish this year vs years past.


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

So the bugs were really bad, locals said it had been warmer and wetter than usual. Bring Deet or Picardin because that natural Repel stuff has no effect on the mosquitos and noseeums. Fishing was good but not as good as last year. I saw way more schools and less singles and smaller groups. As I was wading I would catch one fish out of school and the rest of the school would be gone. It is cool to see big schools of 50-100 fish but from an angling perspective I prefer smaller groups or pairs. Other thing is I had basically a full moon, so tides were pretty big. There is no reporting on North or Middle Caicos. The tides are very differentfrom place to place as well with all the creeks bays etc. It takes some time figuring them out and I haven't got them figured out yet.


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

Fishshoot said:


> So the bugs were really bad, locals said it had been warmer and wetter than usual. Bring Deet or Picardin because that natural Repel stuff has no effect on the mosquitos and noseeums. Fishing was good but not as good as last year. I saw way more schools and less singles and smaller groups..
> View attachment 66682


Thanks for the F/U. We had no bugs at all (a surprise because prior trips there always was some issues near land) the week before you but it rained hard the night before we left and this likely stirred things up. 
Likewise we saw very few schools of fish (I saw none in 7days, my friend saw just two). I suspect the fish might be showing some sort of pre or post spawning behavior that concentrates them in schools thereby reducing the spread of fish.
Or perhaps the netting described above is the issue (I hope not) although I have not seen this in creeks. Glad you had reasonable success.


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## tkflyfish (Feb 26, 2016)

Just fished Bottle Creek. there was a boat with 2 guys with a cast net chasing schools of fish around all day. Suffice to say we did not have many opportunities, saw one group of 5 and was able to feed one.


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## Fly Junkie (Jun 6, 2018)

The cast nets are not good... but the nets across the creeks are destroying the wildlife...... bones, sharks, turtles. Last week of April I saw 4 nets


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