# opinions wanted



## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

with a thread title like that, you know this will be good!

sorry, probably not going to be the exciting, maybe controversial, post you were hoping for...BUT I do have a question Id like to get some opinions on...

let's say I have $1000 to spend on fly gear (rod/reel), Im looking for a new 8wt setup primarily for the east coast of FL, with an occasional trip to the Tampa area (and actually a trip to Aruba this summer, this isnt a hypothetical post at all). I have, in my mind, two options here. I can go out and spend $1000 on one rod/reel and have myself a very very nice setup, OR I could tone it back a bit and get two 8wt rod/reel setups for $500 each.

Just curious what some of you more experienced in the purchase of fly gear might do in this situation (ie would you rather have a truck to tow your skiff and a camaro for the weekends or would you rather just have the Ferrari)


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

321nole said:


> with a thread title like that, you know this will be good!
> 
> sorry, probably not going to be the exciting, maybe controversial, post you were hoping for...BUT I do have a question Id like to get some opinions on...
> 
> ...


I would buy two rods and two reels. (For me it would be a pair of TFO rods, and a pair of Lamson - older models can be regularly found at nearly half off - or Allen reels). If you are traveling out of the country, it is nice to have two setups - just in case you destroy one. You may also have some dough left over for a decent fly box.


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## redjim (Oct 16, 2012)

One very nice set up will not catch you any more fish than the $500 setup. If it was me, I would buy two used FWX 7/8 and link them with both used 7 and 8 weight rods and be in good business.

I fish the east coast 300 days a year and end up using the 7 much more than the 8.

Good Luck and have fun!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Nole if you are really passionate about saltwater fly fishing and committed to a long term relationship with the sport, possibly even addicted, buy the Ferrari. Likely to last as long as you do and reduces the frustration level in a sport that is not so easy. If you are more casual about it buy one TFO outfit and spend the remainder on ....... Unless you plan on casting to very large and fast fish(tarpon/jacks/permit) the rod and skiff and guide and location and line and casting is more important than the reel.


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

this should be fun!

Buy the best you can afford. Re sale is always there if need be. 


THIS IS JUST MY OPINION...........


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## RobA (Aug 21, 2015)

It pays to have a back up rig for the wt you use the most. The warranty repair process can take a couple of months.


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

After some good recommendation on this website, I just purchased a brand new 3-TAND TF-70 on Ebay for $180.00 shipped! Totally blew away by this quality of this reel and I have owned some of the best Abels and Tibor's! Believe me this reel will not brake the bank and is well made by the designers of Van Staal fishing equipment. Now waiting on a new 3-TAND T-90 that I picked up on E-bay loaded with a new 9wt Rio fly line.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

I would buy an 8wt and a 6wt with an emphasis on the rods ... you can always upgrade reels later if you are catching fish that put you into your backing ...


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I prefer to buy top quality rods *and* reels. But I have been doing this for awhile now...lol But here is where I will go against the grain.

And this applies mostly to saltwater. If a guy can't spend a bunch on a rod AND a reel then I suggest buying a decent rod and a high end reel. Lower end reels are not anodized to the same standard as the top reels and have some other design features that I believe are less than desirable. That Tibor or Abel will last a lifetime.

But at the end of the day go buy what you are comfortable with and go fishing.


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## WillW (Dec 6, 2012)

What are your normal tastes? Big spender or big saver? When it comes to women, steak, booze, tires, toilet paper, & fly gear; go with the best. My 2 cents


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

321nole said:


> with a thread title like that, you know this will be good!
> 
> sorry, probably not going to be the exciting, maybe controversial, post you were hoping for...BUT I do have a question Id like to get some opinions on...
> 
> ...


I've never had two rods of the same weight. I've had some stolen, lost by airlines, left on docks, but never broken. I would say the better gear you have, the less likely you'll stick in a ceiling fan or slam a car door on it...

Figure out what suits you and go large; you can only fish with one rod at a time.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

WillW said:


> What are your normal tastes? Big spender or big saver? When it comes to women, steak, booze, tires, toilet paper, & fly gear; go with the best. My 2 cents


You've just described my tendencies with money to a T. I'd love to go out and just grab a Nautilus/tibor/Abel and a sage one or something but a piece of me knows I could get two very solid setups for the same price.. Decisions decisions..maybe I'll win powerball this week.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Assuming you are proficient at casting I would find the rods that fit my casting stroke first. An 8wt will be overkill in some situations but it is probably the most versatile rod for average inshore use. If you can't get the fly to the fish the nicest reel in the world isn't going to help.
There are plenty of reels that dont carry the abel, tibor, nautilus price tags that are still great reels. You can find used Galvan t8's on ebay, they are solid little reels for the money.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

_321nole, I wrote this not only for you, but for others who are in the same boat as you, who are trying to make those same decisions as you are, which in fact is quite a few people that I come across. Yea sure, I can just blurt out a rod and reel or even 2 of them, but it wouldn't give you the reasons to make those decisions. So I apologize for this lengthy reply, but it's only to give some detail on the subject. Let's just call it an article I wrote on the subject. 

____________________________________________________________________________________

Now then, *321nole*, I'm assuming you are somewhat new to the sport of fly fishing. That being said, there is so may fly fishing options, but with a single budget for just one high end rod, you are limiting your opportunities. If you were a refined caster, which could take years to perfect, then you can take advantage of the subtle performance benefits of a single high end outfit.

I understand your a gear head and want to look good. I get it. But wouldn't it be more practical to have that pickup truck (to tow your boat) and also have a decent but semi practical car to get you to work and those weekend road trips? The Ferrari would get looks, yes, but aside from the high insurance, most people don't put many miles on them for fear someone would dent it, steal it, etc...

Lefty Krey said it best when he said the fly fishing industry has done itself a disservice by over pricing themselves out of a bigger picture and therefore more potential business by pricing themselves out of the grasp of the average angler who is considering becoming a fly fisherman. The sticker shock keeps most from entering into the sport from the get-go!

Ok, back on track here. Point is, getting only one rod limits your widow of opportunities. One thing I wouldn't do either is buy 2 of the same outfits for half the cost of the Ferrari. Would you buy 2 knock offs sports cars, so you have a backup in case one get's stolen or breaks down? I wouldn't think so. So buying 2 - 8wts outfits for half the price still keeps you limited in that window.

So let's assume that we can find you a very decent outfit in the $500 range that now you can afford 2 of. Then I suggest you look at what you fish for and the rod of choice for that, and then go either side of that 1st 8wt so you can either stalk smaller fish with a lighter outfit, or bigger fish with an outfit that can handle them and/or windier conditions.

Hey, it's possible to split that up that $1000 budget to 3 - $333 outfits, 4 -$250 outfits and even 5- $200 outfits. Hey, I've caught a ton of fish with a $200 outfit. Who looks better, the guy with a $200 outfit that can cast nice loops and catch fish and gets out there more often, or that guy who has that $1500 outfit (Ferrari) collecting dust and has only taken a few good fish after flailing the water??



There's a good fish taken in St Thomas on a $200 outfit.  Could I have caught that fish any better with a $500 outfit or even a Ferrari? I don't think so. Btw, if that outfit gets stolen down there, I wouldn't cry like I would if my Ferrari got stolen!  LOL Believe me, I've traveled out of this country enough to know I don't want my most expensive stuff with me. Besides, you LIVE in a fishing destination and probably your best fish will come out of your back door! Most of those fish in those overseas tourist traps are only "so so" fish compares to your fish. So save your good stuff for your home waters and eventually get a travel rod for international trips that wouldn't break the bank or break your heart if you break it or it comes up missing!  If you know the fishing will be insane or you're bluewater fishing, well then that's another story and take your good stuff! 

So anyway, In this case, I'll assume you would rather stick with 2 really good $500 outfits that you'll have some growing room with. Ok fair enough and I believe it's a good mix for a gear head that wants a few more options. 

So then.... We all know that an 8wt is the most popular outfit for Florida. If you can only get 1 rod, I do recommend an 8wt just like so many people do. So one would think if I can have a second choice as well, which way would I go? Lots of options above in the previous replies, all of which have merit.

So on the lighter side of an 8wt, I personally like going lighter if possible and IF conditions favor it. I love to play with a 6wt and sometimes even as low as a 5wt. But a 6wt can be a tad too light for a lot of things and especially the wind. I also know your fishing over there (I'm just south of Tampa on the other side of the State) and can say the winds and those bigger fish are not always friends to a 6wt. A 7wt is that good mix of light weight vs big enough to handle slightly bigger fish and throw bigger flies in a little more breeze than a 6wt can.

On the north side of an 8wt, I really like a 9wt for the bigger fish and throwing in the wind, and would even step up to a 10wt for those brutal conditions and of course, the bigger brutes I'm chasing. But a 10wt can be a chore to throw and master the cast. Because of that, most 10wts sit and collect dust and don't get used that often. Case in point, I'll take a 10wt along if I'm going out to hunt cobia. But I have no problem throwing my 9wt at one if it happens to swim by while I'm stalking something else! Got it? Also, the 10wt can be too overkill to blind cast all day but only coming up with a bunch of shorts and too big for most fish we chase on a normal outting. Now if you knew you were "ready" and chasing mid range tarpon, cobias, those big NASA reds, heavy weight jacks, offshore, etc., then yes. But for the most part, a lot of that can be accomplished with a 9wt to a certain extent and the 10wt should be added later when, again, your ready for it.

So then, if you stayed with an 8wt and wanted to go slightly lighter, then a 7 or even a 6wt would work. Or on the other side, if you wanted to go slightly heavier, you can go to a 9wt and even up to a 10wt. But again, there are some limitations to the target ranges these rods were design for (slightly lighter or slightly heavier).

*The conclusion!* To achieve the broadest range of inshore fishing in Florida without being too under gunned or over gunned, if I only had 2 rods to choose for "most" florida inshore fishing, That I would actually get more use out of, it would be a 7wt and a 9wt. One could still be a backup for the other. Simply put, an 8wt is a blend of the 2 rods. If you only had one rod, then yes an 8wt would be it But if you have the budget for 2, then broaden your opportunities and get a 7 & 9wt. That way you cover more bases on both side of the 8wt, instead of only one side or the other.!  The 7 keeps it light and fun and the 9 lets you fish those windy days and allows for targeting bigger fish. Also, practice (correctly) with the 9wt and that 7wt will feel like casting a dry piece of spaghetti right out of the box and you'll giggle like a kid every time you use it! 

So my recommendations for the 2 outfits and trying to stay within your budget is to get both rods in a TFO BFK if you are a somewhat proficient caster. If not, then stick with the BVK in the 7wt and go to a TFO Mangrove in the 9wt. _ For those who are chiming in, the 9wt is a different animal than the 8wt in the Mangrove and the 9wt Mangrove is more stiffer by nature then the same in the 8wt, but not as stiff as the BVK 9wt_.

321nole, we just did a similar thread on this site on the 8wt shootout and the last few years the BVK ranked up there with the high end rods. The 7wt BVK throws like a sweetheart, but the 9wt is more of a man to throw compares to it in a 7 or 8wt. So you'll need to have your ducks in a row to throw it properly. The 9wt Mangrove is an easier to cast than the 9wt BVK. But I recommend going to BPS and throwing both rods with the same line on it to be sure of which one feels better to you. Also you should know TFO has a great warranty for the money.

Reels? For me, owning many reels over the years (many years), from very expensive reels to $39 graphite fly reels, the best deal I've seen for mid price point reels is a lower priced 3-TAND TF70 for the 7wt and the T90 for the 9wt. Look them up. They are super hot reels and the quality are matched to high end reels, even today's high end reels. I hear a lot of chatter about all these new mid price point reels on the market. It doesn't matter. Compare online, then pick them up in a shop and you will actually feel the difference. Plus your budget will thank you (and me! ).

There are plenty of other rods and reels I DO recommend and have done on this website. Like some people have said up above, get the best you can with your budget. But in your case, I would opt for the 2 outfits and you have a lot of great options within that price range. It's a good range to be able to be in. For the 2 outfits I recommended above, it was based on your conditions over there, but value for the money. You'd be hard pressed to go wrong with the pair.

Not to confuse you anymore, but if quality is presumed in name brand recognition, which was an important factor for you, then you could look at a lightly used, slightly older higher end outfit you can buy on the classified sections of sites like this one, or ebay. You'll still have the name brand and model we all know and trust and can usually pick up a decent one for 40-60% off from buying new. Plus you'll still get the nods your looking for!  There are plenty of good options in that category for sure!

I don't care what anyone says, get some good flyline. Do your research on this website. We've had a lot of good talks about that subject. Rio, SA, Cortland Wulff, Airflo.... Just to name a few. Probably a good line would be a Rio Redfish, SA Redfish or Saltwater, Wulff lines, or a Cortland Liquid Crystal.

One final note. Nothing is a good substitute for throwing the rods to see what feels better to you. Also, learning good and proper casting techniques is key to sticking with it and being productive with a fly rod. So get with an instructor or someone who knows. There are some good fly clubs in your area as well and those guys can also help with that. Finally, get flies appropriately sized for the rods you will be using them with. Nothing worst than trying to throw a heavy fly designed for a 10wt on your new 7wt! 

Good luck and have fun! And remember... people will not remember you for what you drive, they'll remember who you are! 

Ted Haas


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

A $250 rig will perform just as well as a $2500 rig and will cause a lot less heartache when it gets stolen, dropped overboard, slammed in a door or lost in transit. If catching fish is your goal, stick to reasonably priced, functional gear. The only reason I can see to spend big bucks is if you're more into collecting than fishing. Some of the greatest enjoyment I ever got from fly gear was from a $49.95 Scientific Anglers combo I bought in a discount store many years ago.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Lots of good stuff here for the OP. However, one thing I disagree with. A "$250 rig will perform just as well as a $2500 rig." That is simply not true. For sure a lot of guys can't get the performance benefits from a higher end rod but that is different than saying it will perform just as well.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Backwater said:


> _321nole, I wrote this not only for you, but for others who are in the same boat as you, who are trying to make those same decisions as you are, which in fact is quite a few people that I come across. Yea sure, I can just blurt out a rod and reel or even 2 of them, but it wouldn't give you the reasons to make those decisions. So I apologize for this lengthy reply, but it's only to give some detail on the subject. Let's just call it an article I wrote on the subject.
> ...................._
> Good luck and have fun! And remember... people will not remember you for what you drive, they'll remember who you are!
> 
> Ted Haas


wow. these responses are great, a lot more than I anticipated if Im being honest (in a good way). I could have included this in the original post, but I wanted to introduce as little influence as possible. I do currently have an older orvis clearwater mid flex 9ft 8wt, an allen prelude 5wt for pond hopping, and a new orvis clearwater 12wt. all of which Ive become a competent caster with in the last year (I have those "wtf just happened" moments regularly). my accuracy at shorter distances with the 8wt and 5wt is sufficient and I have the ability to throw each one a fair distance, around 75ft with the 8wt and 60ft with the 5wt. ultimately this purchase is my way of not only adding to the arsenal, but also stepping up a rung on the quality and performance ladder, so to speak.

my intention was to gather some opinions of the more experienced in this area in order to help me make a better informed decision and you all have given me a lot to consider 

please feel free to continue the discussion as Im sure Im not the only one who's crossed this road!


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

The argument about cost vs. quality of fly fishing gear has been around just about as long as there have been fly fishermen. No one has ever changed anyone else's mind on the subject. I could throw a fly 60 feet with a whittled down tree branch, but I do choose to use a fly rod, so in a way that makes me an equipment snob, just like the guy who needs a $1500 rod instead of a $150 one. Use the gear you can afford and that makes you happy, but don't think that your equipment is anywhere close to the most important factor when it comes to enjoyment or catching fish.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Lots of good stuff here for the OP. However, one thing I disagree with. A "$250 rig will perform just as well as a $2500 rig." That is simply not true. For sure a lot of guys can't get the performance benefits from a higher end rod but that is different than saying it will perform just as well.



Steve, I understand where you are coming from and not to discredit what you are saying, I also understand what Vertigo is saying as well. In his defense, I would assume he's referring to the idea (like you stated), that someone entering into the sport of fly fishing mainly for normal to slot size inshore fish in Florida that may only run you *up to* about 100ft to 100yrds into the backing a couple of times, at best. A $250+/- rig (in today's quality) would be "sufficient" for that. The priority in performance in this case would be rod 1st, then line and lastly the reel. I think if he went chasing big fish and bigger pelagics, then that would be a different story!

I can take an 8wt TFO Professional Series II, throw on a Redington Behemoth and get a very good flyline on sale (say around $50+/- for the line) and some 20lb backing. Ok, so I went over $300.  But that rig would perform just as well, if not better than my mid range outfits I used as my boat rods, back in the day, like a Loomis GL3 I had with an older style Lamson. 

There are many good lower end rods today that perform just as good if not better than the mid range stuff we use to use way back then. Consequently, the mid range stuff today compares to the higher end equipment we used back then as well. And we all caught a lot of fish back then too on all that stuff too! 

The Loomis GLX was as fast as it got for a saltwater rod. Compare that to today's rods, even mid point rods? Not so much! Same thing with the reels. I know reels under $300 with drags just as good as $800 Abels back in the day. But you were the "mac daddy" if you were throwing Abels on GLX's back then. Ha!  Funny thing is, my mac daddy outfits never really caught me any more fish than my all around go-to rods I used for everyday/anyday use.  In fact, they collected more dust than the others for some reason.

I recently went thru an equipment cleansing of sorts and a culling out of my quiver. With 26yrs worth of serious saltwater fly fishing and the collection of fly equipment thereof, I've come to the conclusion that most of what I had, I hardly used. What got the most use was my mid point outfits (which could include older higher end outfits that can be bought today for mid point prices). To me, mid point outfits is that balance of quality vs a price that matches it's value. I don't have to fret over it and I will actually use it and feel confidant enough that it will get the job done right! With that being said, at least 60% (if not 70%) of my stuff went on ebay and found a good home. I'll probably add just a few more "valued" outfits to get to "must have" needs, but that will be it and... That will be sufficient enough for me!  Other than that, I don't want all this other excess equipment lying around and doing nothing or at least nothing much.

Ted Haas


I leave you with this msg from Lefty! He's getting old and tired, but he still has some choice wisdom about the industry in the beginning of this video.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

321nole said:


> wow. these responses are great, a lot more than I anticipated if Im being honest (in a good way). I could have included this in the original post, but I wanted to introduce as little influence as possible. I do currently have an older orvis clearwater mid flex 9ft 8wt, an allen prelude 5wt for pond hopping, and a new orvis clearwater 12wt. all of which Ive become a competent caster with in the last year (I have those "wtf just happened" moments regularly). my accuracy at shorter distances with the 8wt and 5wt is sufficient and I have the ability to throw each one a fair distance, around 75ft with the 8wt and 60ft with the 5wt. ultimately this purchase is my way of not only adding to the arsenal, but also stepping up a rung on the quality and performance ladder, so to speak.
> 
> my intention was to gather some opinions of the more experienced in this area in order to help me make a better informed decision and you all have given me a lot to consider
> 
> please feel free to continue the discussion as Im sure Im not the only one who's crossed this road!



Ok then, that info would have helped shorten my response.  But that's ok.

If you kept your existing equipment, then I would still add the 2 outfits that I mentioned. Use your Orvis 8wt as your travel rod if it's a 4 piece. If you want to stay lighter, then you can substitute the 7wt for the saltwater version of the BVK 6wt. I'd still keep the 9wt though and the 9wt. Mangrove will fit in better with the Clearwaters, if you like their casting styles, or even a 9wt Redington Predator. The BVK is a faster rod and may not suit your tastes in that weight. However, the 6-8wts are sweet and the 7wt is a gem!

The Orvis Recons and the Scott Tidals are nice throwing rods too, but puts you over your budget. Just saying....

Ted


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Ok then, that info would have helped shorten my response.  But that's ok.
> 
> If you kept your existing equipment, then I would still add the 2 outfits that I mentioned. Use your Orvis 8wt as your travel rod if it's a 4 piece. If you want to stay lighter, then you can substitute the 7wt for the saltwater version of the BVK 6wt. I'd still keep the 9wt though and the 9wt. Mangrove will fit in better with the Clearwaters, if you like their casting styles, or even a 9wt Redington Predator. The BVK is a faster rod and may not suit your tastes in that weight. However, the 6-8wts are sweet and the 7wt is a gem!
> 
> ...


I will actually be parting ways with the 8wt orvis I have currently (its also a 2pc), so your response was fitting in my case , but also great information for anyone else who might be looking to add to their gear or in my situation..well really anyone for that matter.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Colton has their terrapin on sale still. I have 2 of them, they are very nice reels for the money. They easily match up in quality to reels that are twice the cost.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

I have to concur with Backwater's well thought out and detailed advice, I don't have first hand experience with the rods and reels he likes, but from everything I've heard they're excellent choices, and within the budget. I had settled on 6,8 and 10 as my main main rods for quite a while but then added a 9 a year ago, it can do a lot that an 8 can't, and a lot that I would normally use a 10 for, so I think it's a really good starting point, then adding the seven for calm weather and smaller fish. Take his advice!
JC


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## pjordan (Jun 12, 2015)

if you have a grand to spend do yourself a favor and go with the suggestion of buying a couple good tfo's and Lamsons. They will never let you down and not only that you can also afford to grab some extra spools and different density lines. 

I don't care how much you spend on an outfit, it is only as good as the guy casting it. And after guiding all over I can tell you for a fact it was almost never ever the outfits fault for the angler's bad casting.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

If you're talking 8wt and under I'd agree that there's no need to spend $600+ for a Tibor/Hatch/Abel/Nautilus reel and $800 for a Sage Salt rod. You can easily get a combo for under $300 that will handle most of what you're targeting with that.

But if you're talking 10wt and up for tarpon, permit, bull reds, and other big bruisers you definitely get what you pay for. I've had a 20# jack crevalle smoke down a Lamson Velocity 4 reel, just completely trashed the drag system. And those are decent mid-range reels. I'm a fan of them but for bigger fish that will run hard & fast they're inadequate.



Bonecracker said:


> After some good recommendation on this website, I just purchased a brand new 3-TAND TF-70 on Ebay for $180.00 shipped! Totally blew away by this quality of this reel and I have owned some of the best Abels and Tibor's! Believe me this reel will not brake the bank and is well made by the designers of Van Staal fishing equipment. Now waiting on a new 3-TAND T-90 that I picked up on E-bay loaded with a new 9wt Rio fly line.


Tell me more about the 3-Tand please. I've been looking at them but no place local carries them and I don't want to buy something I can't put my hands on.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Finn has some good advice.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

I recently bought a WetFly Nitrogen1 7/8wt from backcountry for $108 (retail $239). Machined aluminum, large arbor, cork drag...


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

One word of caution before buying many products out there especially these new brands that are popping up all the time. Not to pick on yobata but lets take the reel he mentions. Yes the Wetfly Nitrogen 1 is machined aluminum. Well that sounds great but its only a start. It is not anodized. That is a critical step that makes a reel truly ready for saltwater use. Wetfly does make a anodized reel but its $500. Now the Nitrogen 1 might be a fine reel and more than adequate for a particular use. Just make sure you fully know what you are and are not getting. Oh and there are also different levels of anodization. Most fly reels are type 2.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

This is my first fly rod/reel (rod is a sage approach 8wt that I got for $170). I made these purchases with the understanding that this was a beginners setup...


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Nautilus CCFx2 6/8 and what ever rod feels natural to you. I'm not a rod snob, however I am when it comes to reels. I have always just gone with what feels right when it comes to rods. I don't fall in love with any in particular. I have many rods, and have owned many rods throughout the years. 

When it comes to an 8wt, I have a Sage Salt, Cheap Bass Pro rod, two Marshfly Journeyman (just got these), TFO Pro Series 2 and a Blue Halo prototype. I have owned many other 8wt's (BVK, Orvis, random other rods). I have caught way more fish on the cheap bass pro rod. I found myself using that more than any other 8wt I own, because it simply feels best to me, and I get more fish to eat with that particular rod. For whatever reason, it's just "fishier". Wether that means that there is a slight difference in presentation with that particular rod, or it is simply just a magical rod that causes more fish to eat. The guides have since rusted out, so I've been throwing the Marshfly Journeyman whenever I have picked up an 8wt (about twice since May/June) 

When it comes to 9wt's I have had a few, a BVK (which I still own) and a Clutch. The BVK win's in this class for me. For me, it throws way better than any other 9wt I have used which include quite a few. I like the Hardy, it throws pretty good, I had a Loop for a while which was alright, I wasn't too big a fan of the Clutch 909 tsx, it felt like it needed more power for a 9wt, the G-Loomis Pro 1 is a pretty good option at a 9. 

I had a Sage Xi3 7wt which I loved, as well as the Orvis Hydros 7wt which was an all time favorite. I also have a Blue Halo 7wt if you're into glass. 

It's all about feel and personal opinion. What feels and works for one person may not be the same for the next person, that's why rods to me aren't as important when it comes to price or stigma. 

However, I do put the brakes on the fish with a Nautilus reel. lol
I currently have a Nautilus NV G5, Nautilus FWX 5/6 (on a Sage Method Elite 5wt), Nautilus FWX 7/8 (on a TFO Pro 6wt), Nautilus CCFx2 6/8 (on a Marshfly Journeyman 8wt), Nautilus NV G9 (on a Marshfly Journeyman 10wt), Nautilus CCFx2 8/10 (on a Sage Salt 8wt), Nautilus CCFx2 10/12 ( on a custom Sewell Rods 12wt), Nautilus CCFx2 10/12 (on a Sage Salt 12wt) and I've been testing the new Nautilus X Reel 6/9 on a Marshfly built Blue Halo glass 5wt since ICAST.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Finn Maccumhail said:


> But if you're talking 10wt and up for tarpon, permit, bull reds, and other big bruisers you definitely get what you pay for. I've had a 20# jack crevalle smoke down a Lamson Velocity 4 reel, just completely trashed the drag system. And those are decent mid-range reels. I'm a fan of them but for bigger fish that will run hard & fast they're inadequate.


That was happening to Lamson reels back in the late 90's. They were freshwater reels that tried to make it in the saltwater world. I smoked one back then and would never look at another one. So later after going thru many different reels over the years (some with problems, some without), I quit looking at brands and concentrated on what they were made of. 1st looked at the fit and finish. Then studied their drag system. Looked at all the parts that could potentially cause future problems. Then looked at the warranty and finally the company. I can give a rats ass about name recognition, unless I'm planning on reselling it. It's one thing if I'm just fishing for normal inshore species. But if I'm buying a quality reel for* big bad fish*, what I want to know is this...

#1 - If I don't constantly dunk it in the water to lift the fish up and take a pic, like I see all these dumb freshwater fly fishermen do to their gear in saltwater (guess they don't fish the salt very often to "know any better"), will the thing hold up to the salt and the elements and not break down and fall apart on me??

#2 - Will the drag system be very smooth, with low start up inertia and have a nice drag knob that I can deal with while in battle, that I can turn on the heat and the drag hold up to long constant runs without sticking or burning up or failing??

#3 - Will it have nice smooth machine work cut out of bar stock aluminum and be nice and light with good support so that there is absolutely no flexing of the spool, no places where the fly line will get hung up, no rusty screws and parts over time?

#4 - Will the drag be sealed so I don't get a bunch of crap in it, which may cause the drag to fail?

#5 - Will it be fairly easy to clean and maintain?

#6 - Will it be fairly simple to change the retrieve from left hand to right hand?

#6a - Will it have a decent handle and not feel like it wobbles, is too big or too small, feels comfortable to hold onto and feels nice and smooth on the retrieve?

#7 - Will it be a quick and easy snap to unlock the spool and remove it from the frame?

#8 - Will it feel light enough to cast all day without feeling like you are pumping weights, but heavy enough to balance out the rod?

#9- Will it feel and be sturdy enough to drop and not bend, take normal boat and fishing abuse without altering it's shape and function or easily scratching up or finish scratching off?

#10 - Is there no clicker sound when I reel it in, but a nice smooth clicker sound when the drag engages and starts to scream out? 

#11 - Will it not cost me a bloody fortune so I don't have to worry about it constantly, so I can concentrate more on the fishing and having fun? (i.e. - more worries = less fish and less fun).

#12 - Will the company have a good warranty program and customer service that will take care of a problem, if one arises, without giving me the 5th degree or the run around?

#13 - Is there a feeling that the company is on top of things as far as listening to the customers and giving them what they want instead of trying to educate them on their own one-off ideas on how they think something should be? Are they up with current trends, have a decent website to learn about their products, SPEAK ENGLISH and speak it clearly for Pete's sake, have a decent pro staff of people who can answer questions, and have good reviews instead of constant complains?

#14 - Does it have a decent trendy look and therefor function. And in my case, is it a decent size arbor, not too small and not too ridiculously large? Is spool width not too narrow and not too wide?

#15 - Is the company, or at least the main company based here in the U.S.?

#16, - Are there some unique design work into the reel or is it just another copy cat?

#17 - Do I get that sense of well being, because I did my research, read the reports on it, felt up the reel 1st hand, felt it on a rod, talk to some people that has had experience with it and found it to be a great value for quality and function vs cost?

#18 - Do they support their local fly shops and therefore give good customer service thru their local fly shops?

#19 - Will the company stick around because this formula is making them successful, especially to honor the warranty?

#20 - Do they have a lifetime warranty?

#21 - If for some reason the company fails and goes out of business years from now, will the reel feel like it will hold up for years to come?

If a reel can meet all these criteria, at this point, I don't care what brand it is and I wouldn't even care if they named it after their cat, I just care about if the reel will service me well, do it's job without failing and is a good value for the money. 

That's all I ask! LOL

Ted Haas


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

I just bought a no-name IM12 nano resin rod from eBay for $35. 4-piece, comes with aluminum tube and sock and a spare tip. I'm matching it with an $18 reel from China and new Rio Redfish fly line I got on closeout for $35. I also have Chinese fly line that cost $11 that I might try. All up, the rig will cost $64 with cheap line or $88 with the expensive stuff. I already have plenty of backing and leaders and plenty of home made flies. If the weather is decent next week I'll try it out for redfish and report back. I wonder if it will match up to my expensive rig which cost me close to $200?


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> I just bought a no-name IM12 nano resin rod from eBay for $35. 4-piece, comes with aluminum tube and sock and a spare tip. I'm matching it with an $18 reel from China and new Rio Redfish fly line I got on closeout for $35. I also have Chinese fly line that cost $11 that I might try. All up, the rig will cost $64 with cheap line or $88 with the expensive stuff. I already have plenty of backing and leaders and plenty of home made flies. If the weather is decent next week I'll try it out for redfish and report back. I wonder if it will match up to my expensive rig which cost me close to $200?


LOL That's funny! I was looking at those IM12 Nanos on-line and was wondering how they feel. What wt rod did you get? Do you have the rod yet and how does it feel. Was it the japanese toray material and does it feel light and fast? Does it feel like it's got enough back bone? At that price, if they break, you can throw them away and buy another one! 

Look guys, I'm not going totally el-cheapo on ya, but it would be nice to know of a fly rod that actually feels decent that I can recommend to total novices who can't afford much and is afraid to go into fly fishing for fear of the equipment cost being out of their reach. I've felt up some cheap chinese rods at a show recently and didn't find anything that would cause me to take a 2nd look at. But I know they've got to be out there somewhere.

Good luck Vertigo and let us know how they feel, pls!


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

I haven't gotten the rod yet, it should come early next week. It's a 7 wt, and although I would have preferred an 8wt the price was definitely right. Weather permitting, I'll give a full report, and maybe take some pictures.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Backwater said:


> That was happening to Lamson reels back in the late 90's. They were freshwater reels that tried to make it in the saltwater world. I smoked one back then and would never look at another one. So later after going thru many different reels over the years (some with problems, some without), I quit looking at brands and concentrated on what they were made of. 1st looked at the fit and finish. Then studied their drag system. Looked at all the parts that could potentially cause future problems. Then looked at the warranty and finally the company. I can give a rats ass about name recognition, unless I'm planning on reselling it. It's one thing if I'm just fishing for normal inshore species. But if I'm buying a quality reel for* big bad fish*, what I want to know is this...
> 
> #1 - If I don't constantly dunk it in the water to lift the fish up and take a pic, like I see all these dumb freshwater fly fishermen do to their gear in saltwater (guess they don't fish the salt very often to "know any better"), will the thing hold up to the salt and the elements and not break down and fall apart on me??
> 
> ...


I dunk my Nautilus's in saltwater all the time for photos, zero issues. I probably wouldn't do it so often with the FWX as it's a freshwater reel, although I have dunked mine plenty of times. I don't even think twice and dunk my CCFx2's and NV's all day long, with minimal care. Just a quick rinse if they're lucky, and none of them have ever failed me or shown any signs of saltwater wear.


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

My $.02 (and that may be too high a price):

I'd lean towards spending money on the best tools you can get for your dollar rod wise. I own two one piece rods (Hardy Pro-Axis/Zephrus) and some lower end multi-piece sticks (Echo Ion, Red-Bone, Reddington), some I bought, some were gifts. I've also tried a slew of my friends various rods, from most manufacturers, and reels from top to bottom end.

Casting all morning and prospecting (see signature), I have to lean to the most accurate casting, lighter setups, which would be my 8wt Hardy Zephrus with a Nautulis FWX, it will cost you $1000 to put that rig together. I've found it's worth it; it weighs less than my 6 wt Echo Ion with a Danielsson Original (super light, no-drag reel, like the old Loop), and can chuck a larger fly with all ease you'd expect from jumping up two line weights.

I get the travel appeal of a 4 piece rod, however, if you can afford the luggage cost of flying a one piece fly rod tube go that route. Ferrules are the weakest point of the rod, and also the part that give the rod an uneven feeling while loading to cast.

Two rods vs. one: I can't argue that a backup rod isn't worth having, it is. I would say try to hunt down some NOS stuff and buy "last years' model, for about half of what the current offering is, so long as it was a good rod, in which case grab two. I'll go ahead and quote this excellent advice:



Backwater said:


> *The conclusion!* To achieve the broadest range of inshore fishing in Florida without being too under gunned or over gunned, if I only had 2 rods to choose for "most" florida inshore fishing, That I would actually get more use out of, it would be a 7wt and a 9wt. One could still be a backup for the other. Simply put, an 8wt is a blend of the 2 rods. If you only had one rod, then yes an 8wt would be it But if you have the budget for 2, then broaden your opportunities and get a 7 & 9wt. That way you cover more bases on both side of the 8wt, instead of only one side or the other.!  The 7 keeps it light and fun and the 9 lets you fish those windy days and allows for targeting bigger fish. Also, practice (correctly) with the 9wt and that 7wt will feel like casting a dry piece of spaghetti right out of the box and you'll giggle like a kid every time you use it!
> 
> So my recommendations for the 2 outfits and trying to stay within your budget is to get both rods in a TFO BFK if you are a somewhat proficient caster. If not, then stick with the BVK in the 7wt and go to a TFO Mangrove in the 9wt. _ For those who are chiming in, the 9wt is a different animal than the 8wt in the Mangrove and the 9wt Mangrove is more stiffer by nature then the same in the 8wt, but not as stiff as the BVK 9wt_.
> 
> ...


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

@321nole - lots of good advice here. I suggest scouring ebay - you can maximize your budget that way and many rods will be covered under warranty.

I outfitted two friends of mine for a trip to Bolivia. I got them 8 wt TFO Mangroves and Allen Kraken reels. You could argue that this combo is one of the best performing options for the money. The rod has a progressive load too, so depending on your cast, it could be a good fit. If you like super fast rods that require a lot of haul, then the Mangrove isn't for you. It's more like a longboard surfboard as opposed to a shorty, it you get my drift.

And I do fish Lamson Litespeed reels in the salt. I've had issues with them, but also stay on top of checking them and will send them back if needed. I've caught tons of bones, permit and poon on them, so they do the job and are super light for the price.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

DSampiero said:


> My $.02 (and that may be too high a price):
> 
> I'd lean towards spending money on the best tools you can get for your dollar rod wise. I own two one piece rods (Hardy Pro-Axis/Zephrus) and some lower end multi-piece sticks (Echo Ion, Red-Bone, Reddington), some I bought, some were gifts. I've also tried a slew of my friends various rods, from most manufacturers, and reels from top to bottom end.
> 
> ...



3 things you posted I would like to comment on...., 

I think the original poster is still somewhat new to the sport but in his original post, I (we all) thought he was making a decision on his 1st real budget and therefore his 1st real setup. Tho later he admitted he had other starter outfits, I STILL, thing he should go for 2 $500 outfits instead on 1 really good one. That gives him more fly fishing options up front. Later a few years down the road when he comes up with another budget like that towards his gear, he can get that choice outfit, like you have.

The 8 weight 1 piece outfit Hardy Zephrus 8wt SWS is an amazing rod and is my new favorite. But that's if you live on or near your home waters and can keep it in the boat when traveling. I have to tell you that I've thrown the 4 piece version of that rod as well and unless you are a highly experienced caster, I would bet you wouldn't feel the difference. It was very difficult for me to tell the difference and I can assure you, I've had many years of rod testing under my belt.

The ferrel thing is an ole wives tale! Period! I've own more fly rods, fished more days on the water and put more fish and big fish in the boat on fly rods than you can imagine. In over the 26 years of hard core saltwater fly fishing, I've yet to have a rod fail on me at the ferrell, nor any of my buddies or even clients rods.

Recently, there was a member that had a ferrule shatter on this board. You might have seen his post (crboggs). I would have to say it was because the ferrel was either dinged by a clouser or weighted fly or it was clinked on something like a steering rail, gunnel edge or something like that. I've seen rods break near and even at the ferrule, but never the ferrules itself. Ferrules are generally beefier at those points, which makes them harder to break there.

Btw, nothing wrong with the Nautilus reels. I've owned them! Decent reel for the money.

So anyways, point being, it's hard enough traveling by air with a 4 piece rod tube. It's getting to be tough to get them through check points and now some airlines are changing their rules to no allow them to go on as a carry on. So one day, maybe soon, you'd have to go with a 5-7 piece travel rod to get them on as a carry-on. I would say a 1 piece rod would be a nightmare to travel with and I would never recommend it. It wouldn't be worth the aggravation.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

paint it black said:


> I dunk my Nautilus's in saltwater all the time for photos, zero issues. I probably wouldn't do it so often with the FWX as it's a freshwater reel, although I have dunked mine plenty of times. I don't even think twice and dunk my CCFx2's and NV's all day long, with minimal care. Just a quick rinse if they're lucky, and none of them have ever failed me or shown any signs of saltwater wear.


Eric, let me ask you a question, IF you weren't going to take a pic of a fish, would you drop the reel in the salt while lifting it up? I don't believe you would. Not trying to pick on you () but is it not true that the only reason you lay the reel down in saltwater for that "pic," is because all these other freshwater guys who now fish saltwater do the same in the pics they take of fish like bones or something good, just like they do with their steelhead and trout pics?? Look, if get that pics help sell products or lures people to your site, etc., etc... But can the pic be taken with the reel and it not be dunked? I think it can and look just as good.

IF, you directly ask the design or service or warranty guys at any good reel mfg (including The boys at Nautilus) if they would recommend completely immersing the reel in saltwater if you didn't have to, I bet they would all say they wouldn't recommend it. It's one thing if you accidently dropped it in or forgot instead of intentionally dunking it in for every cool pic you do. Then what is actually the point? To impress those trout guys?? 

I've fished in general in the salt over 40yrs, I've seen every piece of fishing equipment design for the salt to go to hell and back because of the salt itself. I can't tell you how many reels I've had that had a lifetime warranty, cut from one piece bar stock aluminum and all stainless steel components, fail over time in some area or the other due to the salt. Yes I'm anal about rinsing my equipment right away. But even anodize aircraft aluminum will corrode over time. Stainless steel will in fact eventually rust with exposure to salt. Brass and bronze components will rust and/or corrode as well It's very hard to find a reel with a drag that is completely sealed and even then, the best way to get water in the drag is to completely dunk it in the water. That's also the best way to get sand and silt in, thereby causing problems with the drag and bearings. Hello! That's why it's advise to lightly spray off the reel instead of jet streaming it with the hose (which can force traces of salt in the bearings and drag components). Even after rinsed, it's difficult to get all the salt residue off and out of the reel every single time and that residue has a way of building up over time, even after it's rinsed off. Point is, if you continue to dunk those reels in the salt, you will eventually see failure over time. Usually you find the failure when you have a good fish on, as Murphy's law will come into effect. I'm not naming mfg names, but my failures comes from anywhere between 5 - 15 yrs after purchase, tho they all have lifetime warranties. Oh I've accidently dropped them, that's for sure and I think that's why they build them to be saltwater resistant, but I NEVER dunk! Just sayin..... I don't think anything made of any metal is saltwater proof!

Sure, reels can be taken apart periodically and components replaced. Then there are the warranties that stand by the reels no matter what. But it's not worth causing yourself more aggravation, unless you think that dunked reel in the pics are worth it all.

Another thing to think about aside from the statement above is I think it teaches anyone that it's ok to dunk their reels in saltwater and not everyone might have the same quality of reel and be as anal cleaning them as you or I or a lot of these experienced fly fishermen here. But the ones who don't know so much will end up trashing their reels cause they don't clean them as good and/or the equipment is not made as good.

I think not doing it is ultimately the best approach. 

Ted Haas


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Yes sir don't dunk your reels in saltwater unless you like to completely disassemble them when you get back home or pay some one else to.


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## Whiskey Angler (Mar 20, 2015)

Backwater said:


> 3 things you posted I would like to comment on....,
> 
> I think the original poster is still somewhat new to the sport but in his original post, I (we all) thought he was making a decision on his 1st real budget and therefore his 1st real setup. Tho later he admitted he had other starter outfits, I STILL, thing he should go for 2 $500 outfits instead on 1 really good one. That gives him more fly fishing options up front. Later a few years down the road when he comes up with another budget like that towards his gear, he can get that choice outfit, like you have.
> 
> ...


I've had two rods break at the ferrules. The rods were in great condition with no dings. One of them was an 8wt TFO Ticrx fighting a big bass in moving water- broke off the male portion of the ferrule which was left jammed in the female. The other was a 6wt Redington RS4 fighting a 6-7lb bass in still water- female ferrule split. For anyone who is concerned, both bass were safely landed. 

So, it can happen, but maybe it only happens in Hardcore freshwater fly fishing.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Buy slightly used equipment if you can, but don't hose a fly shop by demoing their new sticks first. If you demo new sticks, buy new sticks.

Buy different weight set-ups first, then double up on the weight you use most often.

Never buy an 11 wt.


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

Backwater- I don't disagree we're all just full of opinions! (well, full of something).

I've never run into any issue flying with a 4 piece rod checked and packed inside my clothing duffle, or carried on. I do agree that it's worth researching your airline, as some are more lenient than others. Also never check my camera and lenses, I explain that they're too valuable and needed for work (half truths) and they always fold when I explain that if I have it, the liability is on me. My other hobby is kiteboarding, we use "golf bags" to travel with our kite gear, and not pay a surfboard fee (just the golf bag fee), works all the time. I haven't looked into the cost of flying with a one piece rod, I just know it's possible. 

I've seen some ferrels fail on some top notch rods, could have been user error in not seating them properly.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

DSampiero
To suggest that someone relatively new to fly fishing get a one piece rod just doesn't show much thought, they are just emminently impracticable, you can't even get one in a car that's not an SUV or wagon, not to mention going through doors, and on and on, for what real benefit for someone who's not expert caster. Sorry.
JC


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

jonrconner said:


> DSampiero
> To suggest that someone relatively new to fly fishing get a one piece rod just doesn't show much thought, they are just imminently impracticable, you can't even get one in a car that's not an SUV or wagon, not to mention going through doors, and on and on, for what real benefit for someone who's not expert caster. Sorry.
> JC


*I completely agree!* doesn't change the fact that they're wonderful tools. I wish someone had recommended it to me years ago, as I have had the means to transport and store one piece rods for some time, but just recently 'discovered' their beauty. I wish someone had made the recommendation to me back when I was starting out, even if I hadn't bought one then, the idea would have been planted earlier in my fly rodding addiction.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Someone new to fly fishing might own a boat and might keep his gear on that boat and keep that boat in his garage. He might live in a place where he can easily tow his boat to a launch and fish year round without having to go thru an airport or get on a plane. A one-piece rod would be fine for that person. Indeed, a one-piece would be imminently practical. Although I'm not new to fly fishing, I meet all the above criteria and I haven't disassembled any of my rods even once in the past 5 or 10 years. It's a mistake to assume that we all have the same criteria for gear, fish for the same fish and fish in the same conditions. My problem is actually finding a good one-piece rod I can afford.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

Vertigo,
All true, but really, what are the odds?
JC


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Turning this into a one piece rod thread, I am sure there are a lot of saltwater fly fisherman that have bought and used the Loomis Crosscurrent one piece that I think they started selling in 2001 or 02. First to offer a one piece. I have a lot of casts with the 8 wt version and it is one tough rod. No guide damage or corrosion and reel seat/cork still good after twelve years. Loomis still sells it and it starts at $400 for the seven wt. Not bad for the quality. After that you are looking at $700 and up, so I agree the choices are limited. If you don't travel and have a boat one piece is the way to go. I have two multi's for travel but I would not hesitate to ship one piece. I have seen four piece rods come apart while casting and fighting fish but no ferrule breaks except my old Heddon bamboo.


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## DSampiero (Oct 18, 2009)

sjrobin- good point. back to what this guy was asking... or has he already made his purchase?


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

DSampiero said:


> sjrobin- good point. back to what this guy was asking... or has he already made his purchase?


Lol no purchases made just yet, have a few more pieces of coral to sell before I hit my target budget  ...from one expensive hobby to another..

With regards to a one piece, I do have a boat, or access to one rather but as much as I'd love a 1 piece I think it would be pretty impractical and I can promise I'm nowhere near refined enough in my casting abilities to notice the difference


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Backwater said:


> The ferrel thing is an ole wives tale! Period! I've own more fly rods, fished more days on the water and put more fish and big fish in the boat on fly rods than you can imagine. In over the 26 years of hard core saltwater fly fishing, I've yet to have a rod fail on me at the ferrell, nor any of my buddies or even clients rods.
> 
> Recently, there was a member that had a ferrule shatter on this board. You might have seen his post (crboggs). I would have to say it was because the ferrel was either dinged by a clouser or weighted fly or it was clinked on something like a steering rail, gunnel edge or something like that. I've seen rods break near and even at the ferrule, but never the ferrules itself. Ferrules are generally beefier at those points, which makes them harder to break there.


It surprised the hell out of me too...all I can guess is the pieces started to come apart and the inner ferrule blew on the forward cast while I was hauling it against the wind. It didn't sound good when it went...not a sound you want to hear when you are on the pointy end of the boat...


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I dunk my reels because I know they will not fail. I don't think twice. If I am wading for bones, and I have this fish in my hand, not "just for a photo", even just to remove the fly from it's mouth, it's much easier to lay the rod down in the water (saltwater flat or a cold water stream) than it is to try to balance the rod over my shoulder while I am trying to remove the hook and keep the fish in the water as long as possible, it's that simple. A sealed drag is sealed when it is not in motion. Where most sealed drags will fail is when the reel is submerged, then spun. Because the O-Ring will slowly allow a little bit of water as it spins around the shaft. Of course, if I dunk my reel I will hose it down, but I am not worried about it and I am not fully taking the reel apart; a quick rinse will do the trick. My reels get used quite a bit, some are seasonal, at the end of the season, sure I'll clean it up before stowing it away for a few months. But if I'm fishing, and I don't dunk my reel (If I'm on the skiff, there's no reason to dunk the reel) I wont even spray water on the reels afterward. My reels still look like new. I know my reels will not fail. 

Over maintaining mechanical things can cause failure, I know if I use something regularly, I will not wash it constantly. Same goes for my mountain bike. If I sat there and hosed it own after every use, or as some of my friends do degrease their bikes regularly, that just means you have to grease it more frequently as you are removing grease regularly. The only time I hose my mountain bike down after a ride is if the trail was wet and slung some mud on the derailleurs. My bike is only in for service once, or twice a year. And that's especially true when I used to ride 20+ days a month.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

crboggs said:


> It surprised the hell out of me too...all I can guess is the pieces started to come apart and the inner ferrule blew on the forward cast while I was hauling it against the wind. It didn't sound good when it went...not a sound you want to hear when you are on the pointy end of the boat...


Almost looks like the rod wasn't all the way into the ferrel or slightly slippen out before the stress of that cast got the best of it. Who knows.

*Multi-piece rod assembly*

We had a decent thread early last year on this forum, on proper methods of putting together multi-piece rods and properly getting them apart, even when they get stuck. I guess the talk rode on the coat tails of a thread titled "getting a stuck multipiece rod apart" or something like that.

Main points are the ends need to be cleaned and lightly lubricated. Most guys agreed that just the oil from your skin (somewhere sweety like your neck) is all that's required and then wiped. I was shown eons ago by an old-timer in the industry, that the best way to lock them in tight so they wouldn't come abart was to install them with the eyes 45 degrees apart from each other and then do a twist-lock so that the eyes line up perfectly in-line straight. That is also the same way you take them apart. If you have dots, you can use them as marks instead of lining up the eyes.



Back to the one-piece talk.... We had another thread on this forum about 1 piece 10wts and discussed the pros and cons of that as well. Bottom line with one piece rods are this, if you can afford them, have a boat or a solid way to transport them back and forth to the water without chance of damage, AND you live either close to you - r fishing waters or can trailer your boat with rod in it to where ever your fishing destination will be, then, ok. But, if you need to travel distance in an SUV or car or small pickup, OR have to get on a plane, then a 1 piece rod is a pain in the arse to travel with and not worth the aggravation.

So ferrel failure on a decent rod is not that big a deal as what some people think it can be. Traveling with a multi-piece rod IMO is the only way to go. Yes you can pack them in and attached them to the side of your back back. But the last few times I fly to the Caribbean, they really gave me a more of a hard time than usual. I met a guy who travels overseas about once a month to work and also fly fishes he says the biggest rods he takes anymore are 5 piece rods and has already bought 7 piece rods to even further reduce the questions and concerns about air officials. He also was told by 2 airlines that are not allowing them anymore to be checked in. Also, I've had my bags damaged by air cargo handling and I would be concerned that a 9ft stick, even in an aluminum tube, it might eventually get some sort of impact damage. Then traveling in cabs, on foot.... it get's cumbersome.

Whisky, I never cared for the large ferrules on the TiCrx's and therefore, not crazy about that particular rod either. It's an odd design and the rest of the TFO rods don't use that design. The female end looks way to big for the male end. idk. But there are guys on this site that really like them, like Ken and Capt LeMay. So I don't know what to tell you. The RS4's Red Fly are the most inexpensive starter rod that Redington made, so I don't don't know what to tell you either except that I'm sure Redington replaced it. It's possible that it was in fact mfg defected. About 20yrs ago I had a cheap 5wt Cortland rod that broke near the ferrule. It was my fault but they gave me credit anyways.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I fished a reddington rs4 for a few years. It was a good rod for the $100 bucks I paid for it. Breakage at the ferrule isnt the result of the rod brand or model. It happens to cheap rods and expensive rods the same way. Sometimes they wiggle a little loose during normal use. If you dont notice it and and then you try to push the rod casting into the wind bad things happen. Best thing you can do is to make sure the sections are seated properly before you start fishing for the day. I would check mine throughout the day. 
One of the reasons I switched to mostly 1pc rods.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I broke an 8wt BVK at the ferrule exactly as stated above. Very windy day, casting at bonefish, the top half came undone and took a chip of the rod with it. I haven't had any other issues like that ever since as I check my ferrule's regularly since.

And as someone who owns both one piece, two piece, three piece and four piece rods, I prefer a four piece rod. I have a one piece 12wt for Tarpon, but even then I wouldn't hesitate to use my four piece 12wt. I've caught some decent 80lb tarpon on a 4 piece 9wt BVK with no issues. I do a lot of traveling, mostly by car without a skiff. I like the ease of throwing rods in a rod /reel case whether I'm driving to the mountains, jumping on a cruise ship to the Caribbean, or jumping on a ferry to Grand Bahamas. Keep the one piece at home for tarpon on the skiff. But last year when I went paddle board fishing for tarpon in Islamorada, I took my 4 piece 9wt because of how difficult it was to transport the one piece 12wt. I misplaced my four piece 12wt in storage. I hooked a 100lb poon on the paddle board and I decided to break her odd after about 5 jumps. Trying to break it off, I somehow managed to turn the fish who came back towards me and jumped another few times before I finally managed to break her off. It was definitely an experience.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

back to the top!

so first off, for anyone who was kind enough to offer their opinions and experiences, Id like to thank you. this is a pretty awesome group of people we've got here on microskiff

secondly, I made my purchase, granted I dont have anything in hand yet lol...as for the reels, I had a nice little coupon from Allen Fly Fishing and own a 5wt ATS reel from them that has far surpassed my expectations, SO I ordered two Allen Alpha III's, a 7-9wt and a 9-11wt both in that slick aquamarine and red color and both coming spooled with backing!

as for the rods, I spent some time goofing around with the TFO BVK and mangrove at bass pro and did like them, but naturally kept on shopping...came across Echo fly fishing and was fortunate enough to get my hands on their Boost salt model and REALLY liked it...lucky me, I found them on stillwater offering a bonus credit towards fly line! so I ordered a 9' 4pc 7wt w/ rio bonefish quickshooter line and a 9' 4pc 9wt w/ rio redfish line.

looking forward to wetting a line!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

321nole said:


> back to the top!
> 
> so first off, for anyone who was kind enough to offer their opinions and experiences, Id like to thank you. this is a pretty awesome group of people we've got here on microskiff
> 
> ...


Well you know Tim Rajeff was a competition caster and his brother Steve is the main designer for Loomis, so I think Steve might consult with his little brother on rod designs, So I wouldn't doubt that it's a good casting rod. I haven't thrown an Echo in a while but they are at a good price point. Nothing exciting to look at, but that doesn't keep it from catching fish and helping you feel good about your casting, which is the MOST important thing! So great job in your search and discovery on what feels BEST for you!

I think it was a smart move getting the 7 and the 9wts. Now you have a nice line up (5, 7, 8, 9 & 12) that will cover most of your fly fishing needs, with good back ups!


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

In case anyone was wondering..

View media item 602View media item 603


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## T Bone (Jul 24, 2014)

321nole said:


> In case anyone was wondering..
> 
> View media item 602View media item 603


How are you liking the rods so far?


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

T Bone said:


> How are you liking the rods so far?


unfortunately they haven't seen much "live action" with the IRL in the state its in (apparently the algae has started to recede but we'll see..)

that said, I have cast them both extensively in the yard and in the pond nearby in a variety of conditions (see thread about too much wind lol). they both cast incredibly well and fit my style (short, quick, powerful). Ive had no problems casting beyond 80ft with either one, albeit not incredibly accurate but Im working on it lol. they are both respectable in the shorter distances (less than 40 ft). where Ive been most impressed has been on the days where most sane people wouldnt even bother getting up from the couch. thanks to the blazing fast action, they both excel in less than favorable conditions as they have the power to punch through the stiffer winds. 

Im heading down south this weekend to chase some peacocks in the canals and the 7wt will be tagging along. might toss the 9wt in the truck for some spillway snook too, though based on past experience I might need my 12wt lol


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

321nole said:


> unfortunately they haven't seen much "live action" with the IRL in the state its in (apparently the algae has started to recede but we'll see..)
> 
> that said, I have cast them both extensively in the yard and in the pond nearby in a variety of conditions (see thread about too much wind lol). they both cast incredibly well and fit my style (short, quick, powerful). Ive had no problems casting beyond 80ft with either one, albeit not incredibly accurate but Im working on it lol. they are both respectable in the shorter distances (less than 40 ft). where Ive been most impressed has been on the days where most sane people wouldnt even bother getting up from the couch. thanks to the blazing fast action, they both excel in less than favorable conditions as they have the power to punch through the stiffer winds.
> 
> Im heading down south this weekend to chase some peacocks in the canals and the 7wt will be tagging along. might toss the 9wt in the truck for some spillway snook too, though based on past experience I might need my 12wt lol


Love those spillway snook!!! Good luck and thanks for your feedback and report!


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## PMtarpon11 (12 mo ago)

paint it black said:


> Nautilus CCFx2 6/8 and what ever rod feels natural to you. I'm not a rod snob, however I am when it comes to reels. I have always just gone with what feels right when it comes to rods. I don't fall in love with any in particular. I have many rods, and have owned many rods throughout the years.
> 
> When it comes to an 8wt, I have a Sage Salt, Cheap Bass Pro rod, two Marshfly Journeyman (just got these), TFO Pro Series 2 and a Blue Halo prototype. I have owned many other 8wt's (BVK, Orvis, random other rods). I have caught way more fish on the cheap bass pro rod. I found myself using that more than any other 8wt I own, because it simply feels best to me, and I get more fish to eat with that particular rod. For whatever reason, it's just "fishier". Wether that means that there is a slight difference in presentation with that particular rod, or it is simply just a magical rod that causes more fish to eat. The guides have since rusted out, so I've been throwing the Marshfly Journeyman whenever I have picked up an 8wt (about twice since May/June)
> 
> ...


What a nice collection


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