# Hells Bay Values?



## swaddict

HB set the platform for performance and design in the flats market in the late 90's.  They created a high end skiff that would perform in very shallow water.  Many of the same early models are available today with little modification to the original hull design, but at a higher price for a new HB.  A used HB can be purchased and redone to better than new cheaper than a new HB.  As with anything, the more demand the higher the price.  There have been a few new skiff manufacturers that have entered the market with very similar skiffs in performance and price.  This is where the Chevy vs Ford debate comes into play.  Unless you have ridden and fished on a HB, then you can't begin to understand the performance factor.  This goes for any of the competing skiffs in the same high end market.  HB is well known for the rigging of their skiffs, if you really look in the hatches at the wiring, it's considered art by many.  There are many choices in the high end skiff market. The used HB's do not stay on the market very long.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden

I love my 13 year old hellsbay!!!!! I will never own any other but a hellsbay. There hull design is worth every penny. And the superior craftsmanship, excellent customer service, and by far the best resale value. Get one and you will understand why. 

The older models are lighter in every way. Back then every single last piece of anything was left off to lighten the skiff. Not the case nowadays. 

Good luck in your search. Be patient and the right one will find you.


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## hillcharl

Look at the economy back in 2007-2009. Might have had something to do with it.


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## mxbeebop

There are other manufacturers who meet or even exceed HB in quality and performance, but they have successfully out performed them in Branding. They have been able to set them selves apart from other high end skiff manufacturers through marketing and historical significance, and as such have set a higher market value for their product.

I've had several people ask me if my ECC is a HB, they are synonymous with high end flats skiffs.


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## rsm13

Brand Elitism


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## fishtrapper

One thing to keep in mind if you buy a Hells Bay you will pay a premium….. but why? You have to pay for them to advertise in every magazine, you have to pay for the celebrities to get free boats and paid by them and you have to pay for the free shirts they give away. If you do not think that these celebrities did not go to other skiff manufactures before Hells Bay you are wrong. I have seen it in person and can tell you that they are just looking for free boats and money and will go to the skiff company that is willing to give them free boats and money. Do they really think HB is the best???? If so why did they go to other manufactures first??? So if you want to be able to say that the boat you own is advertised in a bunch of magazines and endorsed by some celebrities remember you are paying for all of that when you buy your boat if it is new or used.


Are they really the best design? Do they have the best rigging? I don’t think so. But you can be the judge for yourself go to the factory ride in the boat then go to some of the other manufactures and do the same. The other manufactures may not have the cheese and wine but is that what you want to buy or do you want to buy a boat? In the end if you want to be able to say you helped pay for the celebrities to have boats and all of the advertisements in magazines hey the choice is yours.


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## Dillusion

Some reasons simple, some reasons more complex but most of the responses above addressed them. Someone also posted a thread like this a few weeks ago if you go back a few pages on this subforum.

Performance; The molds that Hell's Bay uses are literally some of the finest performing flats skiffs ever made. Once you ride in one, you can feel it.

Originality;The Hell's Bay Whipray which built the brand is literally the original fiberglass poling skiff. Every single skiff created thereafter was and still is a variation of the original Whipray that was born from a need to stop using jonboats in the Glades.

Brand; Call it elitism or call is hubris, for the reasons above owning a Hell's Bay gives you a sense of pride and lineage in the sport of shallow water fishing. Again, some owners have no idea- but the ones that know, know.

Marketing; Everyone knows what a Hell's Bay is. Ask an offshore angler in a Yellowfin what HB is and they will tell you. HB is the epitome of flats fishing skiffs.

Pricing; This is where your anomaly resides. Original Whipray's sold for $9,999 in 2000 and are now $37,000 skiffs. This allows users of old skiffs to recoup their investment and then some- paired with the fact that the old skiffs are actually MORE in demand for those who know what theyre capable of.

There are lots of other great brands out there- Maverick, East Cape, Ankona, Beavertail, Skull Island...they all make excellent skiffs that will do much of the same things. They just don't have the combination of ALL of those things above.


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## MariettaMike

I agree with Mattyvac and add that Hells Bay is the only flats boat manufacturer I am aware of that has NEVER delivered a defective boat.

Because you can buy a 10 year old Hells Bay with more confidence in the quality than a new boat from some newer manufacturers demands a premium.


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## Creek Runner

Supply and Demand.


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## Snookdaddy

> Supply and Demand.


*and replacement cost!*


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## bw510

The hells bay pro is the best do it all skiff I've ever been on period.rides great drafts very little and solid as a rock.(I'm sure there's others out there that can do do the same but I haven't been on one yet) i would own one but I like having a less expensive skiff ( under 20k$ )and a micro I can run up very narrow creeks of the glades etc and not worry about beating it up. 
And they seem to go up in value, which is a plus !
I will say they are over priced but like said above "supply and demand"


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## fishtrapper

> add that Hells Bay is the only flats boat manufacturer I am aware of that has NEVER delivered a defective boat.


HAHA now that is funny. I would like to know why you think this is true?


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## Rediculous

It's a lot easier to innovate than invent, and HB did the latter. I would say in comparison, ECC is the only manufacture that even comes close to the popularity and quality of HB. A few select others may be on par with quality, but it's the popularity that really give HB's their value. They're the ONLY skiffs I see on here, that always go fast(lightning fast) and without the owner having to drop the price just to get it gone. That is where I think the value istruly gained from.


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## sickz284u

> It's a lot easier to innovate than invent, and HB did the latter. I would say in comparison, ECC is the only manufacture that even comes close to the popularity and quality of HB. A few select others may be on par with quality, but it's the popularity that really give HB's their value. They're the ONLY skiffs I see on here, that always go fast(lightning fast) and without the owner having to drop the price just to get it gone. That is where I think the value istruly gained from.


That's funny we were just having this conversation the other night. I am blown away at times with the prices I see these used skiffs selling for. Hopefully one day I will own one myself.


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## camp

I'm just guessing here..like everyone else.

HB is a superior boat with amazing fit and finish. There is a long list of other boats that are as good or at least come very close. My guess is that there is a small group of folks who are buying HB boats with the delusion that they are making a wise investment and they are driving up the price of used boats. If they use their HB a lot and enjoy it good for them, they made a great investment. If someone buys a HB and flips it for a quick profit...good for them.If they buy a HB and they think that they are investing in their futures like all the vintage car flipping guys on tv they are in for an unpleasant surprise.


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## Parrboy

Always funny to me to hear someone talk about a boat as an investment : I do see boats for sale at times that seem to be priced higher than they were new? Dammit man I must be doing something wrong


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## shiprock8

[smiley=popcorn2.gif] This is getting good!


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## GACurrie

Full Disclosure: I own a 09 HB Glade Skiff that I am putting on the market in a week or so. There are a couple of reasons HB holds value. First, the fit, finish and rigging is as good as you will find at delivery. I have not made one repair to the factory work. The second is focus. HB has numerous models that are specific to use. In my case, I wanted ultra skinny, no frills and easy poling. People that want the same thing are willing to pay for what they want. Lastly, a good reputation helps the sale and the resale. HB has a solid reputation for solid fishing skiffs. All the major skiff manufacturers make great products, but a few seem to have the notion that more is better.... more pumps, lights, lockers and seats; whereas, HB thinks "less is more". I liked this distinction.


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## el9surf

Just speaking from my own experience and why I recently chose to buy a used 17.8 whipray professional and restore it. I wanted a poling skiff however I was looking for the one that did it all.  It needed to fish skinny, pole easy, handle chop well and be just big enough that I could teach the kids to fish from. Asthetically I wanted to like the looks of the boat as well.
While there are other boats on the market that are similar in design and function I couldnt get past the looks from the other two boats i was seriously looking at. After taking it out I can tell you it meets and exceeds my expectations. It feels more solid than any other boat I have ridden on or owned including my old hpx. Not to mention it has a very classic look that I love. 

No delusions of making money as restores can be expensive however I feel like it will retain its value better than just about any other skiff on the market. 
The cost to build new is astronomical and the used inventory as stated before is almost nonexistent. Supply and demand is in full effect here. Unless hells bay starts popping out mass production I don't see the prices falling. 

For me I was able to get exactly what I wanted with the intention of keeping it for a long time.


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## Jakeellington

Supply and Demand keeps coming up but I don't see a sharp decrease in supply of used Hells Bay boats that coincides with the used boats price increase. Any increase in demand for skiff / Flats style boats.. Like when gas went up.. the demand should affect price of all similar flats boats not just one manufacturer.


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## el9surf

Try searching for used hells bays and see what comes up. Maybe a few at best probably none that are the same model. Go on tribenwater there are usually a few wtb post up there for used hb's

Try searching for maverick hpx and you can probably find a half dozen and have your pick. Those sellers are aware of the other used hpx's for sale along with the new inventory on the dealer lots and will lower their price to move the boat. HB owners don't have that same kind of inventory competiton yet there are still a lot of people looking specifically for used hb's for the reasons mentioned in past post.


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## MariettaMike

> add that Hells Bay is the only flats boat manufacturer I am aware of that has NEVER delivered a defective boat.
> 
> 
> 
> HAHA now that is funny. I would like to know why you think this is true?
Click to expand...

Because I've NEVER heard anyone say anything negative about HB that wasn't price related. (The intent of this thread?). 

Please share your personal experience...or are you saying people that put their $$$$$ into a HB, don't talk bad about HB?


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## AfterHours2

Mainly, there is a huge bracket of fisherman that do not fall under the "rich as hell" doctors, lawyers, thieves, etc. Being able to finally afford a top notch skiff that someone already took the 15-20k hit on is huge. Now, these skiffs are surfacing being used, or still like new in most cases, and the price range is within the limits of the everyday working individual. I would surely think of buying a used HB before I went on to a 20-30k new build with another manufacturer mainly due to these recent figures. Its basically a win/win, atleast for the time being...


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## MaGuyver

You are paying a higher price for the name and it maybe the "Have to have" boat right now but, as others have said you are also paying for fit and finish, a company (from what I have read on here and other sites) that will stand by their boats years down the road. Plus when you take it in for work it's the factory doing it, not some boat shop in the phone book(yes I know EC and a few others will do work for you too). I would think you have looked at what is out there for used boats and with the exception for a few, the majority can't hold a candle to the way a HB has been taken care of.
I don't want to pay $20K or $30K for a used boat but for the reasons I have mentioned, when time comes I will look for a HB first.


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## rsm13

It's nice to find a great deal on a mint used $40K skiff...fish it, take care of it, and down the road be able to sell it for what you paid or more. It fishes the exact same as a brand new.

It basically a free boat when you sell it. Makes sense to me.


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## MaGuyver

> It's nice to find a great deal on a mint used $40K skiff...fish it, take care of it, and down the road be able to sell it for what you paid or more. It fishes the exact same as a brand new.
> 
> It basically a free boat when you sell it. Makes sense to me.


That will be until I buy one, I'll be lucky to give it away.  ;D


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## firecat1981

Having been on and fished from several HB's I still don't understand it personally. Nice boats no doubt, but I can't see spending the cash. Again though if you have cash then it's your deal, we all make purchases others can question, just look in my garage, lol.

I wasn't going to comment here, but looking at the bragging section did get me thinking a bit. I have been a member here for a long time, I've drooled over the bragging section nearly everyday since signing up. Very rarely have HB's showed up, but now I see 6-7 of them needing attention. Now I've got people I know that have much less exotic boats behind their houses unprotected on lifts for many years with not much issue. And I'm not bashing, however I am very curious why boats that are only maybe 12+ years old and supposed to be of superior build quality and materials, are in need of anything besides a good wash and buff?


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## AfterHours2

It all starts with that damn under gunnel carpet FC


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## el9surf

> Having been on and fished from several HB's I still don't understand it personally. Nice boats no doubt, but I can't see spending the cash. Again though if you have cash then it's your deal, we all make purchases others can question, just look in my garage, lol.
> 
> I wasn't going to comment here, but looking at the bragging section did get me thinking a bit. I have been a member here for a long time, I've drooled over the bragging section nearly everyday since signing up. Very rarely have HB's showed up, but now I see 6-7 of them needing attention. Now I've got people I know that have much less exotic boats behind their houses unprotected on lifts for many years with not much issue. And I'm not bashing, however I am very curious why boats that are only maybe 12+ years old and supposed to be of superior build quality and materials, are in need of anything besides a good wash and buff?


They are usually in need of help because they have been fished hard and left outside in a saltwater environment for 10 years. If you look at the restores the majority are mainly just cosmetic. The ones that have major work are typically being reconfigured in terms of layout to meet the new owners request.


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## firecat1981

Yes I understand some have been fished hard, and I have read through all the build threads, but I would still be upset as an owner seeing what these boats look like after just a decade or so considering the price tags. If I pay a premium I expect the product to last well.


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## devrep

what's to argue about? Some people buy range rovers, some buy toyota 4runners, some buy chevy tahoes. pick your poison. I'm the middle guy, not because I can't, because I just won't spend that kind of money on a boat or a truck. If you can afford it or just want it great. If I had found an HB used at a great price I might have considered it. new price, no way in hell. Sweet little skiffs though.


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## el9surf

> Yes I understand some have been fished hard, and I have read through all the build threads, but I would still be upset as an owner seeing what these boats look like after just a decade or so considering the price tags. If I pay a premium I expect the product to last well.


It doesn't matter what the boat is made out of, if its not taken care of well it will show wear especially if kept outside in the salt and sun. The condition that some of the boats are in isn't a result of the materials, build quality or anything related to HB. You could spend 5 million bucks on a new 85 ft viking and it could end up in the same condition in 10 years. Its a result of lazy owners not keeping things washed waxed and out of the elements.


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## Net 30

> Yes I understand some have been fished hard, and I have read through all the build threads, but I would still be upset as an owner seeing what these boats look like after just a decade or so considering the price tags. If I pay a premium I expect the product to last well.


Really? I have a 2001 17.8 Whip that I bought 2 years ago that was well taken care of by the original owner. Most that see it think it's still new. Skiff is over 12-years old and no sign of wear and tear, electrical and rigging are still perfect, no rattles or loose fastners anywhere. I don't think mine is an exception........


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## Snookdaddy

> Yes I understand some have been fished hard, and I have read through all the build threads, but I would still be upset as an owner seeing what these boats look like after just a decade or so considering the price tags. If I pay a premium I expect the product to last well.
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  I have a 2001 17.8 Whip that I bought 2 years ago that was well taken care of by the original owner.  Most that see it think it's still new.  Skiff is over 12-years old and no sign of wear and tear, electrical and rigging are still perfect, no rattles or loose fastners anywhere.  I don't think mine is an exception........
Click to expand...

I agree with Net 30 and his 17.8 is not an exception..

Below is a picture of my 12 year old 2002 Hells Bay Waterman 18' and it is all original (never refurbished), except I recently had a 6 holes filled when I changed out an 2002 Minn Kota aluminum bracket with a much smaller puck.  I had Glasser Boatworks do the work, because I did not have the equipment to spray Awlgrip on the 12 inch section on the bow of the boat.  More importantly, I'm not skilled at matching Awlgrip.  While the boat was there, I had a 2008 Mercury 60hp with 67 hours installed to replace the original 2002 Mercury 40hp which ran flawlessly..

The entire boat is as close to new as I've seen, because it has been stored inside since day 1 and and previous owner was meticulous. I am the same way with all my previous boats from a 1995 Carolina Skiff J-16, 1982 Hewes 18 Bonefisher II, Lowe 16' Jon and 2005 Gordon Waterman 16. I take care of my hard earned possessions...  Never financed any one of my boats either as I don't believe in financing what are essentially toys.


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## firecat1981

Any boat can be well cared for, so telling me you have a boat that the previous owner looked after is moot. I appreciate that your boats look nice still, but you are totally missing what I'm saying.
Even if these boats were neglected a bit, being how they are supposed to be made with superior materials and processes, then I would expect them to survive better. I know many guys who have much older whalers and carolina skiffs sitting on their docks that are doing just fine, so shouldn't a boat like the HB's who are supposed to be at a higher standard survive much better then a boat built on a budget? 

Again I dig the boats, and I get you guys who own them get upset when people question them, same as any other manufacturer. I just don't get why so many of them are showing up now.


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## Snookdaddy

Boat are def. not investments, because they get used and sometimes abused, but check out this scenario:

*Buyer A* - Purchases a brand new fill in the blank skiff for $20K and can only get $15K at when he sells it after 2 year ownership. -5K all day long..

*Buyer B* - Purchases a used HB for 20K and gets 20K when he sells it after 2 years of ownership. Break even on the skiff. 0 loss..

It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out who is better off at the end of 2 years.

I'll take break even all day long in this case.


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## firecat1981

No doubt, as long as the skiff was well cared for, and it's exactly the layout you want, it would be a good investment, but their are benefits to going with option A too. However I wonder how long the values will stay up? Just like anything else (houses, classic cars, gold.....) anything that is artificially inflated can have a market value correction at some point.


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## Snookdaddy

> Any boat can be well cared for, so telling me you have a boat that the previous owner looked after is moot. I appreciate that your boats look nice still, but you are totally missing what I'm saying.
> Even if these boats were neglected a bit, being how they are supposed to be made with superior materials and processes, then I would expect them to survive better. I know many guys who have much older whalers and carolina skiffs sitting on their docks that are doing just fine, so shouldn't a boat like the HB's who are supposed to be at a higher standard survive much better then a boat built on a budget?
> 
> Again I dig the boats, and I get you guys who own them get upset when people question them, same as any other manufacturer. I just don't get why so many of them are showing up now.


Not upset at all... Hell, you live in Lakeland! You are welcome to come over for a cold beverage anytime.. I've seen you boat coming into Lakeland and always admired your work.

Here's my point: You see a lot of them here because this website is mainly about light, shallow water skiffs and people like to show what they have done to their 12 year old HB's to bring them to "like new" condition. Simple as that.. There are a ton of other different brands of skiffs that people people like to show their refurbs, build, additions, etc. that are on these same pages.

If you want to see a ton of the same kinds of things going on with Boston Whalers (which is a very expensive boat, I may add), there is a specific website that caters to the BW crowd. You will see many, many 13' Whalers that have refurbed to "like new" condition on that website.. Some that were beat to hell and back. Not bashing BW either as I had a 1968 13' Whaler, Hull# 2013 to be exact.. Loved the thing, but it was not especially suited to my fishing needs.

Want to see a ton of Hewes and Maverick restorations, re-wires and add-ons. They have a website too..

At the end of the day the exterior of a HB is fiberglass, gelcoat and possibly Awlgrip. There's no magic gelcoat that will last forever in the sun, so that point is moot. However, there are a lot of HB's out there that were/are used by guides to make their living. They use them hard and put them up wet, so there may be a little more wear and tear on a 12 year old HB than a 12 year old BW..


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## AfterHours2

That newer style Merc looks bad azz on your HB Snookdaddy [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


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## devrep

I saw a sweet grey HB going east on I4 tonight about 6pm near SR 434, ford pick up. anyone here?


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## el9surf

I saw that grey hb at riverbreeze a month ago. Its a grey hull, lighter grey deck and blacked out hardware, really good looking setup.


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## Capt. Eli Whidden

Hellsbay is currently in the process of correcting the values of there used skiffs with NADA. Woooo hooooooo. 

By the way, anybody know anything more about there experimental glades skiff. I saw it while at the shop over the holidays.


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## shiprock8

By the way, anybody know anything more about there experimental glades skiff.  I saw it while at the shop over the holidays.   [/quote]

I heard Flip Pallot is getting one.


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## el9surf

> Hellsbay is currently in the process of correcting the values of there used skiffs with NADA.  Woooo hooooooo.
> 
> By the way, anybody know anything more about there experimental glades skiff.  I saw it while at the shop over the holidays.


Nada is a joke for judging the value of a skiff. Hope they adjust the values up quite a bit. They don't reflect what the market will allow. Hb isn't the only boat company that the values are way off on.


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## Vertigo

NADA values are used by banks when figuring loans. Other than that they rarely reflect the real market.

HB are nice boats, but their worth is determined more by fad and fashion than by ultimate utility (which is very good). No offense to HB 'cause this is true for lots of boats.


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## el9surf

I have had potential buyers from past boats try and use nada to get me to lower the sale price by thousands. You can't explain the reasoning for the sales price with those people. 
I also believe nada would be used for insurance claims under most carriers.


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## firecat1981

I can see some of your points, but still think one day the values will come down. 

You are right that NADA can be used to determine value by insurance companies. Which is why I would encourage anyone who has their boat insured to get an agreed value policy.


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## Beavertail

You guys are funny  ;D
Who cares what NADA value is. 
I am shore HB owners don't care about half of the comment made on this 4 pages.
Hells Bay Values?  ;D This question pops up about every 1-2 months 
If you buy a HB is because you want to buy your last skiff.
If you can afford one that buy one if not keep what you have and go fishing


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## Sheremeta

> I have had potential buyers from past boats try and use nada to get me to lower the sale price by thousands. You can't explain the reasoning for the sales price with those people.
> I also believe nada would be used for insurance claims under most carriers.


That's why there are agreed value policies.


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## Les_Lammers

> I have had potential buyers from past boats try and use nada to get me to lower the sale price by thousands. You can't explain the reasoning for the sales price with those people.
> *I also believe nada would be used for insurance claims under most carriers.*


NADA is a gude. Claims are settled at market value.


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## el9surf

Charter lakes insurance carries an agreed value policy.


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## shiprock8

Guys, if you won a completely restored classic Whipray in a contest, would you sell it and keep the money and continue to fish the boat you already have? Or, would you keep it, get rid of your old boat and fish the hell out of your new Whipray? 

I'm just saying…, :


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## Capt. Eli Whidden

There is hellsbay, then everybody else. There is the whipray, then all other skiffs......


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## CaptainRob

I've been watching this thread a while and wasn't going to respond but decided why not....
The reason HB's are worth what they are used is because HB was the first company that not only developed a product but a customer. Ask many business owners and they will tell you that the product development is secondary to the customer development. By providing their skiffs to guides and tv personalities early on, they were able to develope an entire generation, like myself, who wanted to eventually own one of their skiffs. Now don't get me wrong, I believe their product to be great, but let's all agree that other boats can do MOST of the same things a HB can do. So what makes people spend thousands of their hard earned dollars to buy a used skiff when they could spend the same money and buy new....that is where HB wins out....their customer development was superior and now they have a cult like following which other boat manufactures are trying to emulate. This allows the market for their products to remain at a premium level, since they consistently have a customer who is interested in purchasing and potentially paying a premium.


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## firecat1981

I suppose it is all about the brand, and they have done a great job of promoting it. I still maintain that one day their values will come dramatically and rapidly down. Look at most other premium brands, no one stays on top in a competitive market place for very long in modern times. 

(Just as an example we were doing an inspection of a new Mercedes dealership a few months ago, the prices were shocking to me, shockingly low. I remember back in the day when a used lower model still ran pretty high. Brand new cars for $31k, and their smaller SUV was $36k. You can barely touch a toyota or honda for those prices.



> Guys, if you won a completely restored classic Whipray in a contest, would you sell it and keep the money and continue to fish the boat you already have?  Or, would you keep it, get rid of your old boat and fish the hell out of your new Whipray?


I would sell the Hells Bay in a heartbeat! Might buy a new motor for my skiff with the cash, but I definitely would still fish my boat. It's funny cause last year my wife and I had this very discussion while looking at one raffled off by the CCA. Again, I like the boats, I just don't see why they are so much money, and would rather invest my funds elsewhere. To each their own.


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## Beavertail

> I suppose it is all about the brand, and they have done a great job of promoting it. I still maintain that one day their values will come dramatically and rapidly down. Look at most other premium brands, no one stays on top in a competitive market place for very long in modern times.
> 
> (Just as an example we were doing an inspection of a new Mercedes dealership a few months ago, the prices were shocking to me, shockingly low. I remember back in the day when a used lower model still ran pretty high. Brand new cars for $31k, and their smaller SUV was $36k. You can barely touch a toyota or honda for those prices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, if you won a completely restored classic Whipray in a contest, would you sell it and keep the money and continue to fish the boat you already have?  Or, would you keep it, get rid of your old boat and fish the hell out of your new Whipray?
> 
> 
> 
> I would sell the Hells Bay in a heartbeat! Might buy a new motor for my skiff with the cash, but I definitely would still fish my boat. It's funny cause last year my wife and I had this very discussion while looking at one raffled off by the CCA. Again, I like the boats, I just don't see why they are so much money, and would rather invest my funds elsewhere. To each their own.
Click to expand...


HOW SHALLOW DO YOU FISH?
DO YOU POLE YOUR SKIFF ?
DO YOU HAVE A REAL SKIFF?
DO YOU FISH ARTIFICIAL BAIT?
DO YOU FLY FISH ON YOUR SKIFF?
HOW QUIET IS YOUR SKIFF?
DO YOU SIGHT FISH?

REASON FOR THE QUESTIONS IS THAT"S WHAT I NEED MY SKIFF TO PROVIDE FOR ME.

NO OFFENSE BUT THEY ARE 100'S DIFFERENT CARS MODELS AND MAYBE 10 GOOD SKIFF COMPANY FOR MY OPINION  YOU ARE VERY WRONG ABOUT THE WHOLE CAR VALUE SCENARIO.
PLUS EVERY ONE NEEDS A CAR FOR THEIR DAILY LIFE. NOT EVERY ONE FISHES IN THE FLATS


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## firecat1981

It's a light-hearted discussion, no need to yell. As far as your questions go:

HOW SHALLOW DO YOU FISH? 
Anywhere from 6" to 30ft and everywhere in between

DO YOU POLE YOUR SKIFF ?
Yes, but honestly I prefer to drift the flats.

DO YOU HAVE A REAL SKIFF?
Yes Sir I do, designed and built her myself and she does me proud

DO YOU FISH ARTIFICIAL BAIT?
Yes, I do fish arti's and live bait too.

DO YOU FLY FISH ON YOUR SKIFF?
Nope, I have friends that do on occasion, but it's not really for me.

HOW QUIET IS YOUR SKIFF?
She's pretty stealthy, but really I don't even think it matters much as I've been able to sneak up on reds in a jon boat.

DO YOU SIGHT FISH?
Yes when I'm fishing very skinny waters.

Tell me how I am wrong? No one needs a luxury car, a cheap Honda will get you the same places a Bentley will. just like no one needs a luxury skiff or boat. Things hold premium value as long as there isn't much market competition, and we are starting to see many more options. Even if there are only 10 good skiff companies, well that's 9 more then there were in the past.

You are right not everyone fishes the flats, but in today's economy people can't afford to do expensive offshore stuff anymore. This is the reason I switched to inshore, it's a fraction of the cost. Flats fishing is becoming very popular, so prices are rising for boats that used to be less expensive. Once the market is flooded the prices will come down. Basic economics.

Anyway these are just my opinions, if you don't like them that's perfectly fine, but don't shout at me, and you can tell me I'm wrong, but can you prove me wrong?


----------



## shiprock8

Quote from Firecat:  "I would sell the Hells Bay in a heartbeat! Might buy a new motor for my skiff with the cash, but I definitely would still fish my boat. It's funny cause last year my wife and I had this very discussion while looking at one raffled off by the CCA. Again, I like the boats, I just don't see why they are so much money, and would rather invest my funds elsewhere. To each their own."[/quote]

You should never consider buying or owning a skiff an investment, not ever.  Doesn't matter wether you have a HB, Chittum, Ankona, IPB, Mavrick or a homebuilt.  Most of us have these micro skiffs because we are passionate about sight fishing in shallow water.  It's a luxury, not an investment.  An investment is when you EXPECT to make a profit.


----------



## el9surf

You may be able to sneak up on fish in a john boat in some parts of Florida but hull slap is the kiss of death in the lagoon or on the bonefish flats of the keys. Is it possible to catch fish with a boat that slaps? Yes. 
Is it going to dramatically reudce the amount of chances you have and conditions you can sigth fish? Absolutely.
In your case firecat since you built your own boat I can understand the attachment. If you poled on a regular basis you would appreciate the capabilities of a HB or other similar style skiff.

I was able to fish my 17.8 professional yesterday for the first time and I can say that boat is nothing short of amazing. Easy to pole even in the wind, tracks straight, spins easy, ridiculously shallow and absolutely no hull slap and yesterday was really windy. It definitely lived up to the hype and then some.


----------



## Beavertail

> It's a light-hearted discussion, no need to yell. As far as your questions go:
> 
> HOW SHALLOW DO YOU FISH?
> Anywhere from 6" to 30ft and everywhere in between
> 
> DO YOU POLE YOUR SKIFF ?
> Yes, but honestly I prefer to drift the flats.
> 
> DO YOU HAVE A REAL SKIFF?
> Yes Sir I do, designed and built her myself and she does me proud
> 
> DO YOU FISH ARTIFICIAL BAIT?
> Yes, I do fish arti's and live bait too.
> 
> DO YOU FLY FISH ON YOUR SKIFF?
> Nope, I have friends that do on occasion, but it's not really for me.
> 
> HOW QUIET IS YOUR SKIFF?
> She's pretty stealthy, but really I don't even think it matters much as I've been able to sneak up on reds in a jon boat.
> 
> DO YOU SIGHT FISH?
> Yes when I'm fishing very skinny waters.
> 
> Tell me how I am wrong? No one needs a luxury car, a cheap Honda will get you the same places a Bentley will. just like no one needs a luxury skiff or boat. Things hold premium value as long as there isn't much market competition, and we are starting to see many more options. Even if there are only 10 good skiff companies, well that's 9 more then there were in the past.
> 
> You are right not everyone fishes the flats, but in today's economy people can't afford to do expensive offshore stuff anymore. This is the reason I switched to inshore, it's a fraction of the cost. Flats fishing is becoming very popular, so prices are rising for boats that used to be less expensive. Once the market is flooded the prices will come down. Basic economics.
> 
> Anyway these are just my opinions, if you don't like them that's perfectly fine, but don't shout at me, and you can tell me I'm wrong, but can you prove me wrong?


NO ONE IS YELLING SIR 
THAT'S MY POINT HB ARE BUILD TO DO SPECIFIC FISHING THAT OTHER SKIFF CAN'T DO.
YOU DON'T BUY A HB FOR DRIFT FISHING.
YOU DON'T BUY A HB TO FISH IN 30FT DEEP 
YOU DON'T BUY A HB IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO POLE OR NOT HAVE A POLING PLATFORM.

FLATS FISHING IS BEEN POPULAR FOR OVER 10  YEARS AND HB STILL LEADS THE MARKET FOR THE BEST SHALLOW WATER SKIFF AND THEY ARE ONLY SO MANY BUILD EVERY YEAR AND BUILD BY PEOPLE BY HANDS. SO SUPPLY AND DEMAND WILL ALWAYS BE HIGH ESPECIALLY IF MORE PEOPLE ARE GETTING AWAY FROM DEEP SEA FISHING FOR SHALLOW WATER FISHING 

CARS ARE BUILD IN MASS PRODUCTION BY MACHINE AND COMPUTER SO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN COMPERE THE VALUE OF A HB WITH THE VALUE OF A CAR


----------



## Net 30

> It's a light-hearted discussion, no need to yell. As far as your questions go:
> 
> HOW SHALLOW DO YOU FISH?
> Anywhere from 6" to 30ft and everywhere in between
> 
> DO YOU POLE YOUR SKIFF ?
> Yes, but honestly I prefer to drift the flats.
> 
> DO YOU HAVE A REAL SKIFF?
> Yes Sir I do, designed and built her myself and she does me proud
> 
> DO YOU FISH ARTIFICIAL BAIT?
> Yes, I do fish arti's and live bait too.
> 
> DO YOU FLY FISH ON YOUR SKIFF?
> Nope, I have friends that do on occasion, but it's not really for me.
> 
> HOW QUIET IS YOUR SKIFF?
> She's pretty stealthy, but really I don't even think it matters much as I've been able to sneak up on reds in a jon boat.
> 
> DO YOU SIGHT FISH?
> Yes when I'm fishing very skinny waters.
> 
> Tell me how I am wrong? No one needs a luxury car, a cheap Honda will get you the same places a Bentley will. just like no one needs a luxury skiff or boat. Things hold premium value as long as there isn't much market competition, and we are starting to see many more options. Even if there are only 10 good skiff companies, well that's 9 more then there were in the past.
> 
> You are right not everyone fishes the flats, but in today's economy people can't afford to do expensive offshore stuff anymore. This is the reason I switched to inshore, it's a fraction of the cost. Flats fishing is becoming very popular, so prices are rising for boats that used to be less expensive. Once the market is flooded the prices will come down. Basic economics.
> 
> Anyway these are just my opinions, if you don't like them that's perfectly fine, but don't shout at me, and you can tell me I'm wrong, but can you prove me wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> NO ONE IS YELLING SIR
> THAT'S MY POINT HB ARE BUILD TO DO SPECIFIC FISHING THAT OTHER SKIFF CAN'T DO.
> YOU DON'T BUY A HB FOR DRIFT FISHING.
> YOU DON'T BUY A HB TO FISH IN 30FT DEEP
> YOU DON'T BUY A HB IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO POLE OR NOT HAVE A POLING PLATFORM.
> 
> FLATS FISHING IS BEEN POPULAR FOR OVER 10  YEARS AND HB STILL LEADS THE MARKET FOR THE BEST SHALLOW WATER SKIFF AND THEY ARE ONLY SO MANY BUILD EVERY YEAR AND BUILD BY PEOPLE BY HANDS. SO SUPPLY AND DEMAND WILL ALWAYS BE HIGH
> 
> CARS ARE BUILD IN MASS PRODUCTION BY MACHINE AND COMPUTER SO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN COMPERE THE VALUE OF A HB WITH THE VALUE OF A CAR
Click to expand...

Ahhhh....your caps lock is on.


----------



## Beavertail

> It's a light-hearted discussion, no need to yell. As far as your questions go:
> 
> HOW SHALLOW DO YOU FISH?
> Anywhere from 6" to 30ft and everywhere in between
> 
> DO YOU POLE YOUR SKIFF ?
> Yes, but honestly I prefer to drift the flats.
> 
> DO YOU HAVE A REAL SKIFF?
> Yes Sir I do, designed and built her myself and she does me proud
> 
> DO YOU FISH ARTIFICIAL BAIT?
> Yes, I do fish arti's and live bait too.
> 
> DO YOU FLY FISH ON YOUR SKIFF?
> Nope, I have friends that do on occasion, but it's not really for me.
> 
> HOW QUIET IS YOUR SKIFF?
> She's pretty stealthy, but really I don't even think it matters much as I've been able to sneak up on reds in a jon boat.
> 
> DO YOU SIGHT FISH?
> Yes when I'm fishing very skinny waters.
> 
> Tell me how I am wrong? No one needs a luxury car, a cheap Honda will get you the same places a Bentley will. just like no one needs a luxury skiff or boat. Things hold premium value as long as there isn't much market competition, and we are starting to see many more options. Even if there are only 10 good skiff companies, well that's 9 more then there were in the past.
> 
> You are right not everyone fishes the flats, but in today's economy people can't afford to do expensive offshore stuff anymore. This is the reason I switched to inshore, it's a fraction of the cost. Flats fishing is becoming very popular, so prices are rising for boats that used to be less expensive. Once the market is flooded the prices will come down. Basic economics.
> 
> Anyway these are just my opinions, if you don't like them that's perfectly fine, but don't shout at me, and you can tell me I'm wrong, but can you prove me wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> NO ONE IS YELLING SIR
> THAT'S MY POINT HB ARE BUILD TO DO SPECIFIC FISHING THAT OTHER SKIFF CAN'T DO.
> YOU DON'T BUY A HB FOR DRIFT FISHING.
> YOU DON'T BUY A HB TO FISH IN 30FT DEEP
> YOU DON'T BUY A HB IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO POLE OR NOT HAVE A POLING PLATFORM.
> 
> FLATS FISHING IS BEEN POPULAR FOR OVER 10  YEARS AND HB STILL LEADS THE MARKET FOR THE BEST SHALLOW WATER SKIFF AND THEY ARE ONLY SO MANY BUILD EVERY YEAR AND BUILD BY PEOPLE BY HANDS. SO SUPPLY AND DEMAND WILL ALWAYS BE HIGH
> 
> CARS ARE BUILD IN MASS PRODUCTION BY MACHINE AND COMPUTER SO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN COMPERE THE VALUE OF A HB WITH THE VALUE OF A CAR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhh....your caps lock is on.
Click to expand...


I KNOW WILL GET THAT FIX SOON


----------



## firecat1981

Ah well if your button is broken I will forgive you then sir, lol. 

Flats fishing has been popular only with select crowds for many years, but now so many others are joining in, just look at how many people are kayak fishing now it was nearly unheard of a decade ago. Despite your claim HB does not build a product that others can't, and more companies are coming to the table with comparable skiffs. It doesn't matter how many boats HB builds each year, they no longer have a monopoly on that segment so eventually the market will be flooded with similar boats and drive the value down. 

You may not see how my comparison fits, but I'm sure others do, and time will tell.


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden

This is getting interesting....

There is not another boat that compares to a hellsbay. If you think there is then you will be forever missing out. Or not....... 

Sounds like everybody needs to spend more time on the water and less time in front of the computer. 

Tight lines!


----------



## shiprock8

> Ah well if your button is broken I will forgive you then sir, lol.
> 
> Flats fishing has been popular only with select crowds for many years, but now so many others are joining in, just look at how many people are kayak fishing now it was nearly unheard of a decade ago. Despite your claim HB does not build a product that others can't, and more companies are coming to the table with comparable skiffs. It doesn't matter how many boats HB builds each year, they no longer have a monopoly on that segment so eventually the market will be flooded with similar boats and drive the value down.
> 
> You may not see how my comparison fits, but I'm sure others do, and time will tell.


I was reading another forum going back to 1998 where the guys were talking about how stupid you would have to be to pay $20,000 for a HB skiff, and that there was no way they would hold their value in a market with such stiff competition. This was over 15 years ago and HB boats have not only held their own in the resale market but have actually increased in value. Now I'm not calling all those guys stupid, but I am saying they were wrong. 

If like you say, sometime in the future HB boats won't be considered as valuable as they are now, what is your point. They are not bought as investments, which I tried to explain to you earlier, they are bought to be fished by people passionate enough to spend the money on a skiff that will meet their expectations for shallow water sight fishing.

If I had to guess, I would guess that you are an engineer. Anyway, you will probably never understand the passion that we have for what we do. Whether you own an Ankona Shadowcast or a HB skiff pretty much depends on how much extra money you have to spend. If you are a photographer, you could use some off brand cameras and lenses, or you could use the best equipment out there, like Canon or Nikon. It depends on your dedication and your pocket book. If you have a top of the line professional Canon or Nikon lens and you want to sell it, you are not going to take a big loss. As an example, I bought a Canon 500mm lens about 5 years ago for $6700. I sold that lens last year for $7,200. I got several good years of use and did not loose a dime. I did have to decide that I wanted the best lens in the first place and pay for it.


----------



## cutrunner

[smiley=deadhorse.gif]
Fact of the matter is Hells bay set the standard, and possibly the only company that builds a nicer skiff is Chittum.
Hells bay zombies are like Apple I-(whatever) zombies.


----------



## Parrboy

Or it could be that people have the money and the passion and find it ridiculous to spend that kind of money on a small skiff with small power when other boats do the same thing without the cool name and branding? And as far as the "hells bay was the first to build a poling skiff" argument goes, I would assume that would mean all hells bay Owners pull their skiffs to the ramp with a ford?


----------



## anytide

hells bay suck..........


and for the record, my dad beat up your dad.


----------



## Recidivists

Yawn...


----------



## anytide

> Yawn...


thats what i was thinkn...


----------



## shiprock8

[smiley=biggun1.gif] [smiley=bigshock.gif] [smiley=bigun2.gif] 

[smiley=popcorn2.gif] I say let's head over to HB and string those mothers up. Somehow they're cheating.


----------



## Blue Zone

> [smiley=deadhorse.gif]
> Fact of the matter is Hells bay set the standard, and possibly the only company that builds a nicer skiff is Chittum.
> Hells bay zombies are like Apple I-(whatever)  zombies.


Good point and probably true. 

There is another factor for me. Although I'm an I-zombie, HB is not on that pedestal for me for the simple reason that a whole lot of people think they are so great. I'd take a Dragonfly 17 over anything HB has to offer; it's about the same money, but not many people have them. I'm more of a form over function type anyway, so nothing would convince me otherwise.


----------



## joegil476

Value…
        the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.

thats the definition for me. My 1999 whipray has delivered a ton of usefulness to me ….getting me to all kinds of places in really skinny water to catch fish
It's lasted a long time with not much problem and because of that quality went in to HB for a refit and some upgrades last spring…..
the boat came out like new and is to me worth  every penny I paid both for the boat and the referb no matter what it's market price would be……

Its not the top of the line HB just a whipray without gunnels and a merc 25 but it does all i need it to and thats whats important to me

JG


----------



## tomahawk

> You may be able to sneak up on fish in a john boat in some parts of Florida but hull slap is the kiss of death in the lagoon or on the bonefish flats of the keys. Is it possible to catch fish with a boat that slaps? Yes.
> Is it going to dramatically reudce the amount of chances you have and conditions you can sigth fish? Absolutely.
> In your case firecat since you built your own boat I can understand the attachment. If you poled on a regular basis you would appreciate the capabilities of a HB or other similar style skiff.
> 
> I was able to fish my 17.8 professional yesterday for the first time and I can say that boat is nothing short of amazing. Easy to pole even in the wind, tracks straight, spins easy, ridiculously shallow and absolutely no hull slap and yesterday was really windy. It definitely lived up to the hype and then some.


Rediculous catches some of the biggest fish seen on this site in an old Johnsen skiff that he says has plenty of hull slap....On the lagoon....Just sayin


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden

Jon boats rule!


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden

Guided this fine gent to his first biscayne bay red out of a Jon.


----------



## el9surf

> You may be able to sneak up on fish in a john boat in some parts of Florida but hull slap is the kiss of death in the lagoon or on the bonefish flats of the keys. Is it possible to catch fish with a boat that slaps? Yes.
> Is it going to dramatically reudce the amount of chances you have and conditions you can sigth fish? Absolutely.
> In your case firecat since you built your own boat I can understand the attachment. If you poled on a regular basis you would appreciate the capabilities of a HB or other similar style skiff.
> 
> I was able to fish my 17.8 professional yesterday for the first time and I can say that boat is nothing short of amazing. Easy to pole even in the wind, tracks straight, spins easy, ridiculously shallow and absolutely no hull slap and yesterday was really windy. It definitely lived up to the hype and then some.
> 
> 
> 
> Rediculous catches some of the biggest fish seen on this site in an old Johnsen skiff that he says has plenty of hull slap....On the lagoon....Just sayin
Click to expand...

Read my post, never said you couldn't catch a lagoon red out of a jon boat. Having minimal hull slap would help improve your chances in less than ideal conditions. Hell you can catch mahi, sailfish and marlin out of a jon boat. Is it the best tool for the job? No. 
Some people see the value in a HB, others have their mind made up and couldn't be convinced under any circumstance. Same reason some like Ford vs. Chevy. This thread is beating a dead horse past recognition.


----------



## Beavertail

> You may be able to sneak up on fish in a john boat in some parts of Florida but hull slap is the kiss of death in the lagoon or on the bonefish flats of the keys. Is it possible to catch fish with a boat that slaps? Yes.
> Is it going to dramatically reudce the amount of chances you have and conditions you can sigth fish? Absolutely.
> In your case firecat since you built your own boat I can understand the attachment. If you poled on a regular basis you would appreciate the capabilities of a HB or other similar style skiff.
> 
> I was able to fish my 17.8 professional yesterday for the first time and I can say that boat is nothing short of amazing. Easy to pole even in the wind, tracks straight, spins easy, ridiculously shallow and absolutely no hull slap and yesterday was really windy. It definitely lived up to the hype and then some.
> 
> 
> 
> Rediculous catches some of the biggest fish seen on this site in an old Johnsen skiff that he says has plenty of hull slap....On the lagoon....Just sayin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read my post, never said you couldn't catch a lagoon red out of a jon boat. Having  minimal hull slap would help improve your chances in less than ideal conditions. Hell you can catch mahi, sailfish and marlin out of a jon boat. Is it the best tool for the job? No.
> Some people see the value in a HB, others have their mind made up and couldn't be convinced under any circumstance. Same reason some like Ford vs. Chevy. This thread is beating a dead horse past recognition.
Click to expand...

Bro you waisting you time with this people.


----------



## fishicaltherapist

We all have our dreams & druthers; does it REALLY matter what skiff is the BEST? Personal preference- McDonalds or Burger King? Do your own thing. Just remembering, dreaming about a RANGER Bass boat decades ago; while winning 2 of 3 tournaments fishing out of a 14 ft. JON BOAT!!! Could have bought the Ranger then but, kept the JON! LET'S FISH, EVERYBODY BREATHE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## anytide

> Guided this fine gent to his first biscayne bay red out of a Jon.


yeah but...........it has a hells bay sticker on it.


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden

Anytide, don't tell him that


----------



## anytide

nice carp...........


----------



## sickz284u

Why is it that every thread in here about Hells Bay turns into a pissing match? I admire their skiffs personally and hope to own one myself one day. The fit and finish of a hells bay is top notch. The skiffs poling ability is amazing. If you think they are overpriced and not worth it who cares... That's why everyone has the option to choose the skiff that fits their style and budget. This thread has been one page of actual legitimate claims and facts and 5 pages of bullshit. It's redicuous.


----------



## ASB73

You would think they at least would come with a fuel gauge. ;D


----------



## Ckirk57

I just registered for the Hell's Bay Owner's Tournament, hope to see some of you there!


----------



## robwill54

Well, fishin is fishin. I've fished from a lot of boats Jon and ski, all will catch fish. Nothing beats the ride of fiberglass, and yes, I pull my old whip with a Ford. What else? YMMV and fish on!

Bob


----------



## Dillusion

> I just registered for the Hell's Bay Owner's Tournament, hope to see some of you there!


95% of the posters in this thread can't sign up...they don't own a HB but they love commenting on them.


----------



## mmccull5

> Some reasons simple, some reasons more complex but most of the responses above addressed them. Someone also posted a thread like this a few weeks ago if you go back a few pages on this subforum.
> 
> Performance; The molds that Hell's Bay uses are literally some of the finest performing flats skiffs ever made. Once you ride in one, you can feel it.
> 
> Originality;The Hell's Bay Whipray which built the brand is literally the original fiberglass poling skiff. Every single skiff created thereafter was and still is a variation of the original Whipray that was born from a need to stop using jonboats in the Glades.
> 
> Brand; Call it elitism or call is hubris, for the reasons above owning a Hell's Bay gives you a sense of pride and lineage in the sport of shallow water fishing. Again, some owners have no idea- but the ones that know, know.
> 
> Marketing; Everyone knows what a Hell's Bay is. Ask an offshore angler in a Yellowfin what HB is and they will tell you. HB is the epitome of flats fishing skiffs.
> 
> Pricing; This is where your anomaly resides. Original Whipray's sold for $9,999 in 2000 and are now $37,000 skiffs. This allows users of old skiffs to recoup their investment and then some- paired with the fact that the old skiffs are actually MORE in demand for those who know what theyre capable of.
> 
> There are lots of other great brands out there- Maverick, East Cape, Ankona, Beavertail, Skull Island...they all make excellent skiffs that will do much of the same things. They just don't have the combination of ALL of those things above.


well said, sir.

end of story.


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden

Well said Mattyvac!!!!!!


----------



## permitchaser

It does not matter what you use to stalk fish. I have caught Reds in an aluminum 14' boat with a tiller no poling platform in 6" of water. It was aluminum so it made noise but we still caught fish. I had a bass boat that I used on the flats. It got skinny and when it hit bottom we waded and the water was just over out ankles. Then there are some on this site that infer if you don't have a HB or IPB or EC you can't get skinny enough and your not a "Micro Skiff" and they will be quick to tell you

My point is a Flats boat or any boat is a platform you fish off of and it doesn't have to be made of a particular material of manufacturer.....Just say'n


----------



## matt_baker_designs

I bought a 12ft. jon boat and my buddy Brad caught a 32in redfish on some oyster beds about 100 yards off the channel where most boats fly by to get to their spots. It cost me $400- bucks. I put a floor in it, got a decent trailer for free, and spent $500- bucks on a 15hp merc plus some other stuff. I sold it for $1500- bucks a couple years later. I wish it was a Hells Bay. Probably wouldn't have sold it then, but maybe. :-/


----------



## Pmn000

I had a HB Whipray. Sold it for a Ranger. Like the Ranger better. Whatever. :-*


----------



## FlyFisherK

> I had a HB Whipray. Sold it for a Ranger. Like the Ranger better. Whatever.  :-*


Think that was a win-win for the both of us ;D ;D

Been enjoying the whipray since I came to look at it at your house.


----------



## Ginclear

After debating with myself on whether or not to post on this subject 
I decided that a biased viewpoint was needed here . 

For me the values are based on two criteria : Economics and Performance .
Lets take economics first . I think we can all agree that a skiff or any product
is worth what someone is wiling to pay for it . Being willing to pay for a skiff 
and being able to afford it are two different things . It is always smart not to 
buy a toy that will put you in a financial bind . We've probably all done that .
It doesn't end well . Even if you can afford it , you don't want to over pay .
So you look at comparables . What have others been willing to pay recently 
for a similar product . So a little research will tell us that this skiff , a 2000 
HB Waterman 16 ultralight has sold for from 16 ,500 to over 20,000 . So 
if the asking price falls within that range , you proceed . Under normal 
circumstances , you want to check the skiff out , are there any serious dings 
or defects that will cost you to fix . Have a mechanic check out the motor .
How much life is left in it ? How does the trailer check out ? Set up a wet test . 
All of the usual due diligence . However all circumstances are not normal 
are they ?
A similar Waterman 16 ultralight came up for sale here in Texas , by a guide 
whom we knew . 17,500 was the asking price , so we set up a wet test in the 
next few days . We had seen the skiff , but hadn't been in it , so we needed to 
check it out , up close and personal . We knew these ultralights were rare and 
even though we knew this skiff had been used hard , we were excited . The 
day before the scheduled wet test , the guide called and said that he had sold
it to a famous guide in Florida . We were deflated .
A few weeks later this one popped up on Microskiff . Guy in Atlanta said he
had bought it in Titusville in Oct. 2000 , fished 2 days in Mosquito Lagoon ,
washed and flushed it ,brought it back to Atlanta and stuck it in an air
conditioned hanger . Only used it in local bass ponds occasionally without 
the motor . Wanted 19,000 for it . The 25 Merc with elec start and t&t was 
barely broken in . Ramlin trailer . I called my son who was out of town at 
the time and told him about it , He said call the guy and tell him it's sold ! 
I said you haven't even seen pics of it . He asked what color ? I said dead 
grass green , he texted the guy and sent a 2,000 deposit . The guy gave us 3 
days to close the deal . We drove to Atlanta and back in 48 hours with a 
mothballed 2000 Waterman 16 ultralight following us . So much for 
economics . Now lets talk about performance .
A big part of the performance to us is draft . In local Texas waters , an inch 
shallower draft will get you to where the fish want to be .So an estimated 
draft claim of " about 5 inches with two 250 lb. guys , gas and gear" is not 
credible . Unless you can show me a picture like I have posted . Sub 3" with 
gas and gear will pole in 5" with my son ( 185 lb.s and me 205 lb.s ) . I 
challenge any individual or any skiff maker to post a similar picture . No 
poling skiff of this size can beat it . Only other ultralight HBs can match it 
and still maintain structural integrity so that it can handle all of the other
tasks that a skiff must perform . Handles the chop almost as well as our
other skiff , the 2009 Waterman 18 . I find that remarkable , given the fact
that the 18 is 200 lb.s heavier . The surprise to us was that the 16 doesn't pole 
as easily as the 18 in the wind . It is so light that the wind can push it around 
a bit . We take it out when the winds are light and the tides are low . The flats 
burning yahoos push the fish into the inaccessible shallows where only we and 
our trusty 16 can reach them . Neither skiff slides in turns and both allow the 
bow to be adjusted up or down to accommodate chop and wave conditions .
I had been told by someone who should know , that the 16 was just the 18 
without sponsons . When we compared the 16 and the 18 side by side we 
discovered that they were completely different albeit similar hulls .  
We don't believe there is a poling skiff made that is as versatile as the Waterman 
18 or drafts better than the Waterman 16 ultralight  ( except for the ultralight 
Whipray , which is in the same category .) Although Hells Bay still 
makes the ultimate poling skiff , they don't make the ultralights anymore ,
for whatever reason . ( I know about the Whipray classic , a wonderful 
skiff , but a little heavier than the early ultralights .) 
So , in conclusion ( at last ) I think that those who say that HB prices are 
inflated because of clever marketing and celebrity endorsements are confusing 
HB with Nike . And those that think that HB prices are in a bubble that is 
going to burst are confusing HB with Beeny Babys . And those who think 
you should buy an HB because of the coolness factor are tattoed twits with 
a closet full of Air Jordans . 
Those who think that it doesn't matter how you fish , as long as you catch fish 
should not be allowed anywhere near any Hells Bay skiff .


----------



## permitchaser

Well then I'll keep away from them. I wish I read the last line first, that would have saved time [smiley=headbang2.gif]


----------



## Shallow Hal

> After debating with myself on whether or not to post on this subject
> I decided that a biased viewpoint was needed here .
> 
> For me the values are based on two criteria : Economics and Performance .
> Lets take economics first . I think we can all agree that a skiff or any product
> is worth what someone is wiling to pay for it . Being willing to pay for a skiff
> and being able to afford it are two different things . It is always smart not to
> buy a toy that will put you in a financial bind . We've probably all done that .
> It doesn't end well . Even if you can afford it , you don't want to over pay .
> So you look at comparables . What have others been willing to pay recently
> for a similar product . So a little research will tell us that this skiff , a 2000
> HB Waterman 16 ultralight has sold for from 16 ,500 to over 20,000 . So
> if the asking price falls within that range , you proceed . Under normal
> circumstances , you want to check the skiff out , are there any serious dings
> or defects that will cost you to fix . Have a mechanic check out the motor .
> How much life is left in it ? How does the trailer check out ? Set up a wet test .
> All of the usual due diligence . However all circumstances are not normal
> are they ?
> A similar Waterman 16 ultralight came up for sale here in Texas , by a guide
> whom we knew . 17,500 was the asking price , so we set up a wet test in the
> next few days . We had seen the skiff , but hadn't been in it , so we needed to
> check it out , up close and personal . We knew these ultralights were rare and
> even though we knew this skiff had been used hard , we were excited . The
> day before the scheduled wet test , the guide called and said that he had sold
> it to a famous guide in Florida . We were deflated .
> A few weeks later this one popped up on Microskiff . Guy in Atlanta said he
> had bought it in Titusville in Oct. 2000 , fished 2 days in Mosquito Lagoon ,
> washed and flushed it ,brought it back to Atlanta and stuck it in an air
> conditioned hanger . Only used it in local bass ponds occasionally without
> the motor . Wanted 19,000 for it . The 25 Merc with elec start and t&t was
> barely broken in . Ramlin trailer . I called my son who was out of town at
> the time and told him about it , He said call the guy and tell him it's sold !
> I said you haven't even seen pics of it . He asked what color ? I said dead
> grass green , he texted the guy and sent a 2,000 deposit . The guy gave us 3
> days to close the deal . We drove to Atlanta and back in 48 hours with a
> mothballed 2000 Waterman 16 ultralight following us . So much for
> economics . Now lets talk about performance .
> A big part of the performance to us is draft . In local Texas waters , an inch
> shallower draft will get you to where the fish want to be .So an estimated
> draft claim of " about 5 inches with two 250 lb. guys , gas and gear" is not
> credible . Unless you can show me a picture like I have posted . Sub 3" with
> gas and gear will pole in 5" with my son ( 185 lb.s and me 205 lb.s ) . I
> challenge any individual or any skiff maker to post a similar picture . No
> poling skiff of this size can beat it . Only other ultralight HBs can match it
> and still maintain structural integrity so that it can handle all of the other
> tasks that a skiff must perform . Handles the chop almost as well as our
> other skiff , the 2009 Waterman 18 . I find that remarkable , given the fact
> that the 18 is 200 lb.s heavier . The surprise to us was that the 16 doesn't pole
> as easily as the 18 in the wind . It is so light that the wind can push it around
> a bit . We take it out when the winds are light and the tides are low . The flats
> burning yahoos push the fish into the inaccessible shallows where only we and
> our trusty 16 can reach them . Neither skiff slides in turns and both allow the
> bow to be adjusted up or down to accommodate chop and wave conditions .
> I had been told by someone who should know , that the 16 was just the 18
> without sponsons . When we compared the 16 and the 18 side by side we
> discovered that they were completely different albeit similar hulls .
> We don't believe there is a poling skiff made that is as versatile as the Waterman
> 18 or drafts better than the Waterman 16 ultralight  ( except for the ultralight
> Whipray , which is in the same category .) Although Hells Bay still
> makes the ultimate poling skiff , they don't make the ultralights anymore ,
> for whatever reason . ( I know about the Whipray classic , a wonderful
> skiff , but a little heavier than the early ultralights .)
> So , in conclusion ( at last ) I think that those who say that HB prices are
> inflated because of clever marketing and celebrity endorsements are confusing
> HB with Nike . And those that think that HB prices are in a bubble that is
> going to burst are confusing HB with Beeny Babys . And those who think
> you should buy an HB because of the coolness factor are tattoed twits with
> a closet full of Air Jordans .
> Those who think that it doesn't matter how you fish , as long as you catch fish
> should not be allowed anywhere near any Hells Bay skiff .



That's a lot of words!


----------



## shiprock8

> You would think they at least would come with a fuel gauge.  ;D


We don't need no stinkin fuel gage! [smiley=1-lmao.gif]


----------



## anytide

gasbag........


----------



## tomahawk

Nice post until your conclusion where it becomes obvious you are an elitist, pompous ass...


----------



## Bridgette1

Hells Bay builds great boats. However some Hells Bay owners take the term skiff snob to a whole new level.


----------



## acraft1720

I'm just glad my guide business has survived, wait.. thrived for 20 years without owning a Hell's Bay, hard to believe. They build great boats but the fact is we were catching plenty of fish in shallow water before there was such a thing as a Hell's Bay boat. it's takes more than a nice boat to consistently catch fish.


----------



## Ginclear

Skiff snob ? Elitist , pompous ass ? How dare you , sir . I'll have you know that when I meet any of you 
inferior skiff owners at the ramp I will treat you like equals . That is one of the things about me that I admire 
the most . In fact , I encourage your worshipful stares , but please remember , no fingerprints on the gel 
coat . I must draw the line somewhere .


----------



## AfterHours2

> Skiff snob ? Elitist , pompous ass ? How dare you , sir . I'll have you know that when I meet any of you
> inferior skiff owners at the ramp I will treat you like equals . That is one of the things about me that I admire
> the most . In fact , I encourage your worshipful stares , but please remember , no fingerprints on the gel
> coat . I must draw the line somewhere .


Your attitude does not represent the brand name very well, Sir. Just sayin. I thought the ideal Texas skiff, had a huge tunnel and ran in mud?


----------



## mxbeebop

> Skiff snob ? Elitist , pompous ass ? How dare you , sir . I'll have you know that when I meet any of you
> inferior skiff owners at the ramp I will treat you like equals . That is one of the things about me that I admire
> the most . In fact , I encourage your worshipful stares , but please remember , no fingerprints on the gel
> coat . I must draw the line somewhere .


Snob or not, that's funny


----------



## cosgrcs

This thread cracks me up. I am an HB owner myself and there is no way that I could ever afford a new one so I bought a used whip and fixed it up. I will be the first to tell you that my boat doesn't have everything to do with how many fish I catch but it does what it was built to do VERY well. It rides great, floats shallow, and is built to last. With all this being said I have a buddy with a SUV 17 that can fish the same exact water as me and in my opinion his boat poles just as well as mine does. Heck, it may be even a bit easier to push in a strait line. Its a great boat, no doubt about it and we used to and still do catch a ton of fish on it. The main reason why I did not buy another brand is simply a matter of economics. You can spin it any way you want but I know that if I ever needed to turn my boat I could get rid of it in a heartbeat while recouping 75-80% of my investment in it. That is really what sold me on the idea of an HB. I know there are a ton of guys on hear that say they could never swing it but IMO it all comes down to a matter of how bad you want it. I could have bought a boat 5 years ago but I decided to fish out of a kayak and save as much as I could for the right HB. So yeah, there are my thoughts. You can call me a prick but its just a matter of good economics. Kinda like my Camry with 260K on the clock that I use to tow it every now and then. Nothing shouts skiff snob more than my HB behind the killer cam.


----------



## devrep

great post. You're only a skiff snob if you act like one. I guess I'm a reel snob. I drive a Toyota truck and have a 20 year old skiff but I like using top notch fishing gear. I am such a jerk.


----------



## anytide

> This thread cracks me up. I am an HB owner myself and there is no way that I could ever afford a new one so I bought a used whip and fixed it up. I will be the first to tell you that my boat doesn't have everything to do with how many fish I catch but it does what it was built to do VERY well.  It rides great, floats shallow, and is built to last. With all this being said I have a buddy with a SUV 17 that can fish the same exact water as me and in my opinion his boat poles just as well as mine does. Heck, it may be even a bit easier to push in a strait line. Its a great boat, no doubt about it and we used to and still do catch a ton of fish on it. The main reason why I did not buy another brand is simply a matter of economics. You can spin it any way you want but I know that if I ever needed to turn my boat I could get rid of it in a heartbeat while recouping 75-80% of my investment in it. That is really what sold me on the idea of an HB. I know there are a ton of guys on hear that say they could never swing it but IMO it all comes down to a matter of how bad you want it. I could have bought a boat 5 years ago but I decided to fish out of a kayak and save as much as I could for the right HB. So yeah, there are my thoughts. You can call me a prick but its just a matter of good economics. Kinda like my Camry with 260K on the clock that I use to tow it every now and then. Nothing shouts skiff snob more than my HB behind the killer cam.


good, relevant post to the OP


----------



## AfterHours2

Pics of the Camry Gump or it didn't happen


----------



## el9surf

> Skiff snob ? Elitist , pompous ass ? How dare you , sir . I'll have you know that when I meet any of you
> inferior skiff owners at the ramp I will treat you like equals . That is one of the things about me that I admire
> the most . In fact , I encourage your worshipful stares , but please remember , no fingerprints on the gel
> coat . I must draw the line somewhere .


I think some of you missed the over the top sarcasm because that was a funny post


----------



## Bridgette1

> Skiff snob ? Elitist , pompous ass ? How dare you , sir . I'll have you know that when I meet any of you
> inferior skiff owners at the ramp I will treat you like equals . That is one of the things about me that I admire
> the most . In fact , I encourage your worshipful stares , but please remember , no fingerprints on the gel
> coat . I must draw the line somewhere .
> 
> 
> 
> I think some of you missed the over the top sarcasm because that was a funny post
Click to expand...


I got it. It was well played and funny as hell!


----------



## Capt. Eli Whidden

This thread is fantastic!!!

The price of my 13 year old waterman just went up 5000.00

Ha!!! Too bad I don't want to sell!!!!


----------



## acraft1720

I thought it was funny as well. My only point was plenty of people could buy a HB but maybe they choose other hulls that meet their needs or perform better under certain conditions, not the only boat that is well built and can get the job done. HB resale is so good I've considered buying one from a client just to resell, but of course I'd fish it some before that..


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

ASB73 said:


> You would think they at least would come with a fuel gauge. ;D


Cheap fuel gauges aren't accurate. Hell's Bays come with the best fuel gauges out there - the yardstick under the front hatch. That stick never lies, as fuel gauges often do. Also, it's part of their minimalist mantra: you can put a high end/accurate fuel gauge on a Hell's Bay if you so choose, but most guys don't want the extra clutter. The stick works better, and is a mere fraction of the cost.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

Additionally, think about this:

I'd venture to say a larger percentage of guys that eventually are convinced to buy/own a Hell's Bay will hold onto the skiff for far longer than someone who buys another skiff. This is due to brand loyalty, the cult following HB has developed, and obviously the form, fit and function these skiffs are known for. Once you own one, there's really no reason to seek another skiff unless your style of fishing or your financial situation drastically changes.


Therefore, this causes far fewer used HB skiffs available in the market. As supply goes down, prices stay up or even increase.


----------



## firecat1981

This thread is 3+ years old, and like all the other HB price threads, it's beaten like a dead horse.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

firecat1981 said:


> This thread is 3+ years old, and like all the other HB price threads, it's beaten like a dead horse.


So then isn't it hypocritical that you're replying to the thread? I was merely adding one perspective that I don't think was mentioned, so please forgive me for my grave sin. 

There are many older threads on this site with good info and an array of good and varying perspectives; that's why this site exists. I believe I'm not the only one who uses the "search" function to look back on older topics, or occasionally browse into older threads; frankly I appreciate it when older threads get revived, rather than people creating new identical threads of similar topic. 

But people, like yourself, who believe it's a "dead thread" can certainly choose to avoid the thread entirely rather than posting a snarky comment with zero value added.


----------



## crboggs

firecat1981 said:


> This thread is 3+ years old, and like all the other HB price threads, it's beaten like a dead horse.


But its market value has increased...


----------



## sjrobin

tgjohnso said:


> Additionally, think about this:
> 
> I'd venture to say a larger percentage of guys that eventually are convinced to buy/own a Hell's Bay will hold onto the skiff for far longer than someone who buys another skiff. This is due to brand loyalty, the colt following HB has developed, and obviously the form, fit and function these skiffs are known for. Once you own one, there's really no reason to seek another skiff unless your style of fishing or your financial situation drastically changes.
> 
> 
> Therefore, this causes far fewer used HB skiffs available in the market. As supply goes down,
> 
> prices stay up or even increase.


For me the value is in performance(design) and durability(build quality). I don't care who builds it as long the builders focus on good build techniques and are committed to it. The older Boston Whalers come to mind also.


----------



## Megalops

This thread is awesome. Did you all know about the ole wooden dip stick trick? Don't forget to wet test, right guys? Lol.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

firecat1981 said:


> This thread is 3+ years old, and like all the other HB price threads, it's beaten like a dead horse.


Were you born in '81? I was too, your posts read as if you were 80 and sitting on the porch yelling at people to keep off the lawn. Lighten up, you're not even over the hill yet.


----------



## el9surf

I'm still trying to figure out what a Colt following is.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

el9surf said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what a Colt following is.


haha my mistake...I've got a colt m4 within arms reach...I meant cult.


----------



## SomaliPirate

I had the opportunity to purchase this thread in 2014 and passed. Sadly this thread now sells for about 3-5k more than it did then. When you have a custom thread with top notch fit and finish, it's going to hold value. That's the lesson to be learned here folks.


----------



## jaxflatsfisherman

I feel like a boss in mine unless there's a Chittum around.


----------



## fjmaverick

Like anything else its worth what someone is willing to pay
If youve met any of the hells bay fruit cakes you know they are willing to pay a lot to be different.


----------



## mtoddsolomon

jaxflatsfisherman said:


> I feel like a boss in mine unless there's a Chittum around.


Coincidentally when I'm around a bunch of Hell's Bay's I always feel like the Ferrari at the Rolls convention.


----------



## jaxflatsfisherman

I was just playing off the HB bashing by Chittum. I could actually care less about identifying with any boat brand. It's a bit silly. A cool boat is a cool boat and to each their own as to what a person likes, has or dislikes for that matter.  Props definitely go to the guys that build their own though. Those are the guys worthy of pride.


----------



## Str8-Six

I've always wanted a Hells Bay and might have one day. I can afford one but my wife would probably kill me if I spent that much money on a boat. I just bought some Hells Bay decals and I'm going to put them on my Ankona. Heard that makes the boat faster, draft shallower, better fit n finish and increases the value.


----------



## firecat1981

@Smackdaddy53 
I stand by my comments. I've been on here for I think about 11 years now and this forum is one of the best on the net. However there seems to be one topic that always brings out the worst in us and it's anything to do with HB prices. Several times a year someone will start, or resurrect, one of these threads and all of a sudden it turns into the THT or FS forum. You will notice not many of the threads are left as mods had to delete many in the past due to....issues. And many a warning was given to members.
If you like HB, buy a HB. If not there are other options around. Like others have said something is worth what people are willing to pay.


----------



## Palma Sola

HB are surely sweet skiffs.
I like certain features, the interior hatch hinges appeal to me. I like that clean look. The Kevlar build debate is always worth highlighting, and at this point perhaps overdone? We know it's the strongest material but it's the application and quality of resins and time taken that makes the difference. At the time I bought my skiff, I could afford a HB, but I wanted to closer to my boat builder, and liked driving 10 minutes to have a dialogue with them. I have had to tweak a few things on my skiff, small repairs etc, but I think that comes with owning a boat? I'm glad that HB set the standard for which others boat builders can aspire, and surely these other skiff builders are as passionate about quality as HB. I'm 65 years old, and buying a skiff and living part of my life as fisherman has been my dream forever. I'm really proud of what I'm learning and what it means to have hull rash, and even how to "fry up" a slot snook . I think we all share the challenge of the hunt for fish, and our skiff is our partner! It's that special thrill that matters most to me. Whether I'm drinking a can of beer, or a bottle of Meursault after I clean my skiff I'm still the same proud fisherman.We all share this common thread and whatever skiff you float is your choice, and hope to see you out there in whatever skiff you have. I'm personally more interested in tying good knots and fishing than debating the merits of my skiff investment ..


----------



## coconutgroves

I nearly pulled the trigger on a late model Waterman, but when I did the math I realized I could have two boats instead of one. I actually already had the first boat, my Kenner center console, but wanted to restore and customize it for fly fishing. The restore and the B2 came in at nearly the same price as the Waterman.

For the types of water I fish here in TX I really need 3 boats. Hell, I could take an offshore boat too, but honestly I wouldn't use it. My brother had a 27' Mako for several years and I rarely went offshore. I just love the inshore fly game too much.

My center console handles bigger water and the lakes. The Beavertail is great in 7" of water. The 3rd boat would be a Glades style skiff that drafts 5" to get back into the miles of endless lakes and creeks we have. That is another world back there.

Brand, quality and status plays a large part of buying a HB. There is that saying about a Rolex and a Timex. Both do the same job, but one is several thousand and the other is $40. However, the Timex won't get you laid.


----------



## Palma Sola

But with the money you save on the Timex, can't you have 3 ladies for the price of one? I can't imagine owning 3 boats for just the time they take to keep them in good shape etc!
I've never been on a B2 but have heard great things about her.. 7 inches seems shallow enough to me .. Thanks


----------



## HBFanatic

Ginclear said:


> After debating with myself on whether or not to post on this subject
> I decided that a biased viewpoint was needed here .
> 
> For me the values are based on two criteria : Economics and Performance .
> Lets take economics first . I think we can all agree that a skiff or any product
> is worth what someone is wiling to pay for it . Being willing to pay for a skiff
> and being able to afford it are two different things . It is always smart not to
> buy a toy that will put you in a financial bind . We've probably all done that .
> It doesn't end well . Even if you can afford it , you don't want to over pay .
> So you look at comparables . What have others been willing to pay recently
> for a similar product . So a little research will tell us that this skiff , a 2000
> HB Waterman 16 ultralight has sold for from 16 ,500 to over 20,000 . So
> if the asking price falls within that range , you proceed . Under normal
> circumstances , you want to check the skiff out , are there any serious dings
> or defects that will cost you to fix . Have a mechanic check out the motor .
> How much life is left in it ? How does the trailer check out ? Set up a wet test .
> All of the usual due diligence . However all circumstances are not normal
> are they ?
> A similar Waterman 16 ultralight came up for sale here in Texas , by a guide
> whom we knew . 17,500 was the asking price , so we set up a wet test in the
> next few days . We had seen the skiff , but hadn't been in it , so we needed to
> check it out , up close and personal . We knew these ultralights were rare and
> even though we knew this skiff had been used hard , we were excited . The
> day before the scheduled wet test , the guide called and said that he had sold
> it to a famous guide in Florida . We were deflated .
> A few weeks later this one popped up on Microskiff . Guy in Atlanta said he
> had bought it in Titusville in Oct. 2000 , fished 2 days in Mosquito Lagoon ,
> washed and flushed it ,brought it back to Atlanta and stuck it in an air
> conditioned hanger . Only used it in local bass ponds occasionally without
> the motor . Wanted 19,000 for it . The 25 Merc with elec start and t&t was
> barely broken in . Ramlin trailer . I called my son who was out of town at
> the time and told him about it , He said call the guy and tell him it's sold !
> I said you haven't even seen pics of it . He asked what color ? I said dead
> grass green , he texted the guy and sent a 2,000 deposit . The guy gave us 3
> days to close the deal . We drove to Atlanta and back in 48 hours with a
> mothballed 2000 Waterman 16 ultralight following us . So much for
> economics . Now lets talk about performance .
> A big part of the performance to us is draft . In local Texas waters , an inch
> shallower draft will get you to where the fish want to be .So an estimated
> draft claim of " about 5 inches with two 250 lb. guys , gas and gear" is not
> credible . Unless you can show me a picture like I have posted . Sub 3" with
> gas and gear will pole in 5" with my son ( 185 lb.s and me 205 lb.s ) . I
> challenge any individual or any skiff maker to post a similar picture . No
> poling skiff of this size can beat it . Only other ultralight HBs can match it
> and still maintain structural integrity so that it can handle all of the other
> tasks that a skiff must perform . Handles the chop almost as well as our
> other skiff , the 2009 Waterman 18 . I find that remarkable , given the fact
> that the 18 is 200 lb.s heavier . The surprise to us was that the 16 doesn't pole
> as easily as the 18 in the wind . It is so light that the wind can push it around
> a bit . We take it out when the winds are light and the tides are low . The flats
> burning yahoos push the fish into the inaccessible shallows where only we and
> our trusty 16 can reach them . Neither skiff slides in turns and both allow the
> bow to be adjusted up or down to accommodate chop and wave conditions .
> I had been told by someone who should know , that the 16 was just the 18
> without sponsons . When we compared the 16 and the 18 side by side we
> discovered that they were completely different albeit similar hulls .
> We don't believe there is a poling skiff made that is as versatile as the Waterman
> 18 or drafts better than the Waterman 16 ultralight ( except for the ultralight
> Whipray , which is in the same category .) Although Hells Bay still
> makes the ultimate poling skiff , they don't make the ultralights anymore ,
> for whatever reason . ( I know about the Whipray classic , a wonderful
> skiff , but a little heavier than the early ultralights .)
> So , in conclusion ( at last ) I think that those who say that HB prices are
> inflated because of clever marketing and celebrity endorsements are confusing
> HB with Nike . And those that think that HB prices are in a bubble that is
> going to burst are confusing HB with Beeny Babys . And those who think
> you should buy an HB because of the coolness factor are tattoed twits with
> a closet full of Air Jordans .
> Those who think that it doesn't matter how you fish , as long as you catch fish
> should not be allowed anywhere near any Hells Bay skiff .


Well said


----------



## makin moves

7 pages and finally something worth while! Thanks Marietta Mike.


----------



## firecat1981

I've unfollowed this thread, but it keeps coming back, lol.

The above story was great, and I fully appreciate the the hunt for what you want. But the conclusion illiterates why so many have heartburn over these threads. No one can tell you how to use your money, or what to do with your boat. I've seen a HB fishing an off shore reef, and bass fishing with a TM on the front. Doesn't mean they should be shunned by the hardcore pole guys...... and yes that statement is funny..... I remember growing up if you were into fishing, then you had a community of friends, no matter the style or price tag.


----------



## paint it black

tgjohnso said:


> Additionally, think about this:
> 
> I'd venture to say a larger percentage of guys that eventually are convinced to buy/own a Hell's Bay will hold onto the skiff for far longer than someone who buys another skiff. This is due to brand loyalty, the cult following HB has developed, and obviously the form, fit and function these skiffs are known for. Once you own one, there's really no reason to seek another skiff unless your style of fishing or your financial situation drastically changes.
> 
> 
> Therefore, this causes far fewer used HB skiffs available in the market. As supply goes down, prices stay up or even increase.


You know, my buddy just sold his Waterman and ordered a brand new Maverick HPX, because it is a better skiff.


----------



## Bluwave

paint it black said:


> You know, my buddy just sold his Waterman and ordered a brand new Maverick HPX, because it is a better skiff.


come on dude.. this thread was just about to calm down


----------



## paint it black

Bluwave said:


> come on dude.. this thread was just about to calm down


lmao just trying to stir the pot a little bit.


----------



## POCtied

paint it black said:


> You know, my buddy just sold his Waterman and ordered a brand new Maverick HPX, because it is a better skiff.


Newer is always better


----------



## HBFanatic

I can name u 5 friends who bought Mavericks and went back to HB. No comparison That is not a humble opinion


----------



## Dpreston

I have a 2001 HB 17.8 and a 2007 Maverick HPXV - both amazing boats for different applications. Just about every manufacturer has some models where they nail it, and some dogs....as well as some years being better than others for a variety of reasons such as company ownership, changes to hull design, etc. I wouldn't get too caught up in the hype or hyperbole - just do your homework and make sure you're getting the right tool for the job you want done.


----------



## EdK13

Liked em better 200 lbs ago...


----------



## EdK13

DonaldJ Scott said:


> Argan oil is one such oil, and it's a natural emollient. The oil is effective in reducing the appearance of scaly, red patches caused by psoriasis.Elysian Eye Serum If you are experiencing anxiety from your skin care issues, visit a dermatologist. If taking care of your skin at home doesn't work, it could be a sign of a more serious problem. Never hesitate to make use of the safety net provided by dermatologists when your own skin care solutions prove ineffective.Elysian Eye Serum When purchasing sunscreen, take care to read the label. The types and quality of sun protection products range from natural to chemical, mild to militant. In order to properly block the sun and protect your skin, a sunscreen should contain at one of the following: zinc oxide, avobenzone or titanium dioxide.
> http://www.supplementscombined.com/elysian-eye-serum/


Always put plenty on those 18+ year old HB's.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier

EdK13 said:


> Liked em better 200 lbs ago...


Not a boat builder at all: not saying the folks at HB would do this, but IF they built their skiffs using the same materials as Chittum is currently using, how much less you think they'd weigh out? You think this is possible, or would they have to change too much of the structural design to use the same materials?


----------



## EdK13

tgjohnso said:


> Not a boat builder at all: not saying the folks at HB would do this, but IF they built their skiffs using the same materials as Chittum is currently using, how much less you think they'd weigh out? You think this is possible, or would they have to change too much of the structural design to use the same materials?


I don't know either- just bantz. Just know the older tillers and side consoles were very light and simple.


----------



## Whiskey Angler

HBFanatic said:


> I can name u 5 friends who bought Mavericks and went back to HB. No comparison That is not a humble opinion


Took the bait... BASS STRIKE!!! LoL.


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## TylertheTrout2

LOL , THIS ^


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## HBFanatic

We is so crazy. I love my new Cayo 173. Let's start a thread on value


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## HBFanatic

Li


tgjohnso said:


> Not a boat builder at all: not saying the folks at HB would do this, but IF they built their skiffs using the same materials as Chittum is currently using, how much less you think they'd weigh out? You think this is possible, or would they have to change too much of the structural design to use the same materials?


Lighter. But not necessarily better


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## paint it black

HBFanatic said:


> I can name u 5 friends who bought Mavericks and went back to HB. No comparison That is not a humble opinion


 My buddy sold his Maverick, bought the HB, sold the HB, bought another Maverick. 

That doesn't mean one if better than the other. At the end of the day, a skiff is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and for it to fulfill their expectations. That's it.


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## shallowfish1

swaddict said:


> HB set the platform for performance and design in the flats market in the late 90's


Subjective statement.


Dillusion said:


> The Hell's Bay Whipray which built the brand is literally the original fiberglass poling skiff. Every single skiff created thereafter was and still is a variation of the original Whipray that was born from a need to stop using jonboats in the Glades"


By whose measure and definition is it "the original poling skiff"? Dolphin was building great little poling skiffs in the 80s. I've fished a Super Skiff in the Glades for 20+ years. It's not a HB variation -- if anything it broke ground for the HBs to follow. 

HBs are great skiffs, but they tend to inspire big-time snobbery in some owners.


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