# Texas Conchfish 18.25 build



## Sublime

Not much to see yet. The plan is......

3/4” foam core / epoxy buildup
No floor 
Tohatsu 30 tiller
No tunnel 
Manual jack plate
Lenco tabs
Open bulkhead up front
Permanent fuel tank up front 
Bulkhead in the back 
Rear hatch number and layout TBD
Rear platform much like I had on the GladesX

I’ve been in communication with Chris Morejohn about building it out at 17.5’, but I think I will just stick to the plans as issued. 

This will be my third skiff, so I know features that I want on this one and don’t want. Previous skiffs were both tillers, but I’m toying with the idea of a side console. 

I have pages and pages of pictures , and discussion from Travis’ build and other builds from Instagram. I will be keeping a complete accounting of all cost involved. I’m hoping to come in under $13k with a nice aluminum trailer, new motor, new everything.

That’s about it for now. I’ll be posting uber detailed info as I go along. I hope to have it planked out with foam over Christmas break. 

Stu


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## Smackdaddy53

If you need anything I’m not too far away. I’m pretty good about giving opinions! I also have a bunch of tools, parts laying around and some materials etc.


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## C Brueckner

Cant wait to see your progress, it will be cool seeing a Conch Fish build over on this side of the country.


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## Sublime

I believe this is the slickest side console design I’ve seen

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2010-ankona-copperhead-side-console-with-60-etec.47468/


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## Bluwave

Sublime said:


> I believe this is the slickest side console design I’ve seen
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2010-ankona-copperhead-side-console-with-60-etec.47468/


Ehhh, that looks pretty uncomfortable.


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## eightwt

Sublime said:


> I believe this is the slickest side console design I’ve seen


Yep, like it also. Unobtrusive, but very functional.


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## bryson

Really looking forward to seeing the build!

I just got my plans in today and am on the fence about the length change as well. I was going to wait until the first of the year to start, but I ended up pulling the trigger early, at least on the plans.

As for the side console, it looks like the controls might be a bit high (at least, for driving while seated), but pictures can be deceiving. I'm sure whatever you do will fit you well, though; that's the beauty in doing it yourself.


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## Guest

If you are set on no floor, you might consider doubling the core in the cockpit area after flipping but before glassing the inside. Weight gain would be next to nothing as would any added expense of the core. But the cockpit floor stiffness would feel much better when running in chop. Just a thought, James


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## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> I believe this is the slickest side console design I’ve seen
> 
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2010-ankona-copperhead-side-console-with-60-etec.47468/


Looks like that little seadek pad is to save your right knee from a beating. Maybe it’s something else. Pretty slick though especially if you glass it in and modify with a custom touch.


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## mtoddsolomon

Really looking forward to watching this unfold. I want to build one of these in a bad way.


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## makin moves

I had the same exact side console on my 1st gen copperhead and loved it. I'm sure Mel still has the molds for it.


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## Guest

You could probably make a temp one off mold for a similar console with a five gallon bucket and a 2x6. If your building the rest of the boat, why not? Of course a call to Mel might prove to be worth your time too!


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## Guest

Of course, I would want to see it layed up in carbon fiber! It would make a real nice accent piece!


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## Sublime

makin moves said:


> I had the same exact side console on my 1st gen copperhead and loved it. I'm sure Mel still has the molds for it.


Looks good. It’s the least intrusive side console I’ve seen. I sent Ankona an email yesterday asking if they would sell one.


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## Bruce J

Good luck and have fun with the build. Really looking forward to the pics and stories.


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## texasag07

The black side console in question is my old boat and here are my thoughts. 

I liked the design of it a lot, aesthetically and it as very functional.

I am fairly short and for me it would have been most comfortable to move it back 1-2” but with the angled bezel of the wheel it was still totally drivable and pretty comfortable.

I liked it better than some of the older hell’s bays with the wheel that was straight up and down for sure.

That seadeck pad was for lures only not a knee pad one wasn’t needed.

The glass on it was pretty thin so building something similar with more glass would be my main suggestion.

It was very easy to operate tabs while running the skiff.


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## jsnipes

Wow...impressed so many people are taking on this adventure. Good luck, can't wait to follow along!


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## Rick88

This would be the appropriate console I wouldn't mind the wheel a couple inches towards center even 

Driving is uncomfortable w the wheel that close to gunnel on the ankona


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## Sublime

Rick88 said:


> This would be the appropriate console I wouldn't mind the wheel a couple inches towards center even
> 
> Driving is uncomfortable w the wheel that close to gunnel on the ankona


I have always liked those. Is there any support going down to the side of the boat? That would be what I wouldn't like.


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## bryson

@Rick88 I really like the look of that style, nice and clean, I just feel like it might be too low to stand up while driving. Do you drive standing up very often?


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## Rick88

Sublime said:


> I have always liked those. Is there any support going down to the side of the boat? That would be what I wouldn't like.


Yes


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## Rick88

bryson said:


> @Rick88 I really like the look of that style, nice and clean, I just feel like it might be too low to stand up while driving. Do you drive standing up very often?


Honestly if you NEED to stand and drive a lot a center console of tiller is necessary 
I've had flat and raised side consoles you can drive em standing but I wouldn't wanna do it for an hour.


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## Sublime

Rick88 said:


> Honestly if you NEED to stand and drive a lot a center console of tiller is necessary
> I've had flat and raised side consoles you can drive em standing but I wouldn't wanna do it for an hour.


I've only ever run tiller skiffs (10 years total) and I rarely ran standing up. Idling when approaching a spot I will stand but that is totally doable with a side console.


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## Sublime

Well I have all my stations measured out and marked up. Here is what I gleaned. 

I used 4 sheets of 3/4” MDF that I bought at Home Depot for around $30 each. The first thing I did after doing some calculations was to cut 24” off the end of each sheet. Then I ripped the remaining piece down the middle. This will give you eight pieces to make stations one through eight with. Stations nine and ten can be made from one of the smaller 24” x 48”pieces. Now you have some easier to handle pieces. 

Okay, now go to Office Max and have the drawing with stations printed out on 24” x 36” paper. This cost me $3.00. Money well spent. 

Measuring everything out is pretty tedious. You’ll have measurements like 2’-3 27/32”. I used a tape measure with 16th inch marks on it. For measurements in 32nds I just marked between the marks. I made all my grid marks and points with an ultra fine sharpie. 

After marking out a couple of stations I settled in on the following method. For stations 1-8, place the tape on the end of your MDF piece. Mark your centerline at 36”. Now leave your tape there and start marking ticks for all of your vertical lines. Next draw out your vertical lines using a drywall square. Once you have all your vertical lines drawn, you can start measuring from the baseline up all the vertical lines and put dot at the specified place. I need to take a “bendy” straight edge and draw my curves. Right now I just have my straight lines drawn with a fine tip sharpie. Take your time. I found it also helped to write all off my left and right of center measurements down on a piece of paper so I wasn’t always having to go back to the drawing and find my place. Then I did the same with all my vertical measurements. Before I start cutting , I’m going to take some tracing paper and trace one side, then flip it over the centerline and make sure I’m symmetrical. 

Hope this helps.


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## mtoddsolomon

This is the scariest part for me. Glad you’re going through it first and helping with pointers


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## Sublime

mtoddsolomon said:


> This is the scariest part for me. Glad you’re going through it first and helping with pointers


I fought my OCD self by remembering that I’ll be cutting this with a jigsaw and not a 5 axis router. That and placing cut up pieces of foam planking isn’t exactly space shuttle precision. If you’re off a 1/16” or more in some places , you’re never going to notice.


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## Guest

Sublime said:


> I fought my OCD self by remembering that I’ll be cutting this with a jigsaw and not a 5 axis router. That and placing cut up pieces of foam planking isn’t exactly space shuttle precision. If you’re off a 1/16” or more in some places , you’re never going to notice.


Exactly, now ya got it brother! She’ll all fall into place with 1/16th tolerance!


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## Sublime

Well, the holidays were spent with friends and family as it should be. Oh, and a bout with bronchitis. But I got some serious progress made on the strongback yesterday. I need some more cross bracing and need to finish the bow portion. Things I have been reminded of. 

1)There are very few straight boards.
2) However many screws you think you’ll need, DOUBLE IT. 
3) measure twice , cut once. 

Keep in mind, your strongback needs to be strong, and stable. Don’t over obsess about everything being perfectly true. The real tweeking will come into play when mounting the stations.


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## jonny

Rick88 said:


> View attachment 52336
> This would be the appropriate console I wouldn't mind the wheel a couple inches towards center even
> 
> Driving is uncomfortable w the wheel that close to gunnel on the ankona


There is a console in this picture? What are you guys referring to?


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## Guest

jonny said:


> There is a console in this picture? What are you guys referring to?


Small side console just large enough for helm and a couple gauges.


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## Pole Position

Coming from someone who has never built a boat and an iq hovering around 50........in the pics the strongback looks kinda high to where it would be difficult to reach the centerline to glass ( ?? )


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## Sublime

I've just about decided I wouldn't know how to act with a steering wheel with all the hours I've logged on a tiller. If I _do_ go tiller I'm leaning towards the old school Whipray setup like Conchfish16 is doing on Instagram.


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## Sublime

Pole Position said:


> Coming from someone who has never built a boat and an iq hovering around 50........in the pics the strongback looks kinda high to where it would be difficult to reach the centerline to glass ( ?? )


It's about waist high and the tallest station is around 18" 

I mulled that over several times and reached over the hood of my truck and anything else I could find and settled in on this height. That and I'm 6'-5" with over a six foot wingspan.


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## Guest

Sublime said:


> It's about waist high and the tallest station is around 18"
> 
> I mulled that over several times and reached over the hood of my truck and anything else I could find and settled in on this height. That and I'm 6'-5" with over a six foot wingspan.


While it’d be way too tall for me, build it to fit you. Bending over sucks lol!


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## Sublime

Boatbrains said:


> While it’d be way too tall for me, build it to fit you. Bending over sucks lol!


Yep. I want to find a way to hold my stations vertically to cut them out with a jig saw. I won't be able to straighten up after a couple.


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## jonny

Boatbrains said:


> Small side console just large enough for helm and a couple gauges.


You just proved you really do have boat brains. LOL
Me on the other hand have other things on my brain


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## Guest

jonny said:


> You just proved you really do have boat brains. LOL
> Me on the other hand have other things on my brain


Ha! Too expensive for me lol!


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## yobata

@Sublime Are you going to be keeping track of costs? I am curious to find out final bill for the hull (or at least ballpark)


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## Sublime

yobata said:


> @Sublime Are you going to be keeping track of costs? I am curious to find out final bill for the hull (or at least ballpark)


My title at my current job is Cost Accountant III, so that would be a yes.


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## el9surf

Make sure to invest in a good respirator before you get to glassing and sanding. Looking forward to seeing this come together!


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## Guest

el9surf said:


> Make sure to invest in a good respirator before you get to glassing and sanding. Looking forward to seeing this come together!


This is the best advise anyone can get! Bunny suits are good too, too many people overlook what we absorb through our skin. But do get a good respirator please!


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## BudT

Subscribed, looking forward to your build. I've considered it, but just don't know that I would be able to get the quality I would be satisfied with. Although it would be really really kewl to do your thing in a personally hand built skiff. I'm sure it will turn out great, best wishes.


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## nautilott

Really liking this thread. At this age, I personally don't have the inclination, skills or the place to even try building my own skiff. I do have great admiration for the talented few that do...very cool. Looking fwd to pics and progress.


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## Pole Position

Also, dont forget to wrap the top of your frames w/ packing / painters tape before starting the planking----some idiot I know forgot to do so on another similar project and had a helluva mess!


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## 17376

I would say the strong back is too high. Mine is about 18” high and I’m 6’2”... when laying glass you don’t want to be having to stretch across.. you will wear most of the resin.


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## kamakuras

And hit them with some mold release wax. Will pop right off.


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## KurtActual

I intend on posting juuuust enough in this thread that I get an invite from Sublime to take a ride, heh.


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## Sublime

Travis Smith said:


> I would say the strong back is too high. Mine is about 18” high and I’m 6’2”... when laying glass you don’t want to be having to stretch across.. you will wear most of the resin.


Yeah, I may lower it some. It would be minimal trouble at this stage. It is six of one and one half dozen of the other. Reach some on the bottom of the hull or bend over a lot on the sides and chine areas (where a lot of the fitting and details are)



KurtActual said:


> I intend on posting juuuust enough in this thread that I get an invite from Sublime to take a ride, heh.


No problem !


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## Sublime

Okay, I chopped the strongback down some, so it should be good to go. The runners are at 25”. The tallest station is around 18” so that puts it at belly button height for me. Say hello to Fish, my cowboy corgi (blue healer/corgi mix).


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## Sublime

Got a lot of my vertical station supports cut last night before I ran out of 1x4s. Anyway , you can get the idea of how my strongback will work now. Those 1x4s will be cut down some when I start mounting the stations and right now they are just being held in with friction. I got around half of my stations cut over the weekend. They cut really easy, maybe around 10 minutes per. I just hugged my lines as close as I could with the jig saw and if needed removed some material in high spots with an OS. Ezpz.










I had some tracing paper laying around so I thought I would check my measurements on all the stations by tracing one half, flipping the paper over and making sure everything lines up on the other half. Second one I checked paid off.


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## bryson

@Sublime that's awesome -- sometimes it's one of those things where you almost *hope* you made a mistake so that you get that satisfying feeling of catching it, haha

Keep up the good work, man! By the way, where did you come across a large roll of tracing paper? I'm guessing hobby stores or art stores carry it? That's a great idea for a sanity check.


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## Sublime

bryson said:


> @Sublime that's awesome -- sometimes it's one of those things where you almost *hope* you made a mistake so that you get that satisfying feeling of catching it, haha
> 
> Keep up the good work, man! By the way, where did you come across a large roll of tracing paper? I'm guessing hobby stores or art stores carry it? That's a great idea for a sanity check.


I believe I ordered it off Amazon. A roll like 24" wide and 50 yards long lol. I think it will come in handy for some other stuff on the build as well.


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## Sublime

My buddy is working on drawing the extra station and the new transom. Can’t wait !!


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## Pole Position

Sublime said:


> I believe I ordered it off Amazon. A roll like 24" wide and 50 yards long lol. I think it will come in handy for some other stuff on the build as well.


Great idea...as heavy as that stuff is, carting around MDF that you miscut isn't a lot of fun.

In case you dont need a lifetime supply, Amazon also has it in 20 yard lengths:

*Bienfang 20-Yard by 24-Inch wide Sketching and Tracing Paper Roll*
by Bienfang
27 customer review


Price: $9.63 _Free Shipping for Prime Members_


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## Sublime

Title changed from Conchfish 16 to Conchfish 17.5. Hopefully my CAD buddy comes through tomorrow with the drawings for the transom and extra station.


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## Capehorn 19

Here is a conchfish 17’10”. 58” beam @ chines and 78” beam @ widest pointing deck. I also added 1-3/4” of freeboard You guys may have seen this on Chris’s Instagram photos a year ago I didn’t even tell him that I expanded on it. I think I was the first person to start a conchfish build but it has gone at a snails pace. 
I think you will be happy with the bigger skiff but if you go with a console like I am instead of tiller it will add a lot more work. I think it’s worth it.


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## DuckNut

Sublime said:


> I believe I ordered it off Amazon. A roll like 24" wide and 50 yards long lol. I think it will come in handy for some other stuff on the build as well.


That tracing paper likes to re-roll it self. If you go to the grocery store and buy a can of spray starch, light spray and iron it will become flat and stiffen in. A couple coats and it will be flat and stable. It is tough to be precise when it is rolling up.


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## 17376

Just FYI using paper to trace onto wood etc isn’t consistent. Paper tends to change shape and sizes very easily with temp change etc. I really wouldn’t use paper.


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## Sublime

Travis Smith said:


> Just FYI using paper to trace onto wood etc isn’t consistent. Paper tends to change shape and sizes very easily with temp change etc. I really wouldn’t use paper.


Oh no doubt. I am just using it to check for gross mistakes like the one in the picture.


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## Sublime

Capehorn 19 said:


> Here is a conchfish 17’10”. 58” beam @ chines and 78” beam @ widest pointing deck. I also added 1-3/4” of freeboard You guys may have seen this on Chris’s Instagram photos a year ago I didn’t even tell him that I expanded on it. I think I was the first person to start a conchfish build but it has gone at a snails pace.
> I think you will be happy with the bigger skiff but if you go with a console like I am instead of tiller it will add a lot more work. I think it’s worth it.


Thanks for posting Capehorn 19. Yes, I remember seeing your skiff but that was before I got serious about this. I like seeing everyone doing something a little different with their builds. I too will go center console but no built in seat. What motor are you going with?


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## Rick88

Capehorn 19 said:


> View attachment 58218
> View attachment 58220
> View attachment 58222
> View attachment 58224
> View attachment 58226
> View attachment 58228
> View attachment 58228
> Here is a conchfish 17’10”. 58” beam @ chines and 78” beam @ widest pointing deck. I also added 1-3/4” of freeboard You guys may have seen this on Chris’s Instagram photos a year ago I didn’t even tell him that I expanded on it. I think I was the first person to start a conchfish build but it has gone at a snails pace.
> I think you will be happy with the bigger skiff but if you go with a console like I am instead of tiller it will add a lot more work. I think it’s worth it.


Man! probably the best looking build I've seen so far! can't wait to see it finished Did you fab the console or is that one you picked up pre made I know there are some companies making nice ones out there these days


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## Capehorn 19

Rick88. Thanks! I’m building the console. Foam cored sides & backrest Aquaplas lll everywhere else. 

Sublime. I think a f70 is the right motor for this size skiff but I already own a f60 so I’m gonna give it a try. 
I’ve really enjoyed my build Hope yours goes smooth. Good luck


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## Rick88

The new tohatsu 60 is gonna be 213lbs built on the same block as the 40/50
I think it's available in 15" as well depending on where the transom is with the added freeboard


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## devrep

on your console I vote for the toe space around the bottom.


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## Rick88

devrep said:


> on your console I vote for the toe space around the bottom.


Hahah yes! did you ever see what hal was trying to charge for that console on the legacy models I think it was 4-5k


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## DuckNut

Capehorn 19 said:


> Rick88. Thanks! I’m building the console. Foam cored sides & backrest Aquaplas lll everywhere else.
> 
> Sublime. I think a f70 is the right motor for this size skiff but I already own a f60 so I’m gonna give it a try.
> I’ve really enjoyed my build Hope yours goes smooth. Good luck


Hey Cape,
If you have not already done so, start your own thread - we love boat build porn.


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## No Bait / Lures Only

Very impressive skiff


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## Sublime

I got all of my stations out and temporarily clamped up. Still have some sanding/shaping to do on a few of them. Then I need to make my stem piece and the other transom form "A". But at least now I can go out in the garage and look at something.

The tip on this post is I didn’t go crazy trying to cut perfect lines on the stations with my jigsaw. I just got close then I’m using an orbital sander to clean the edges up. Sands very easily.

Final OAL of hull looks like it will come in at 17'-7" as best as I can tell.


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## Stevie

@Sublime That is so cool. I admire all you guys that build your own skiffs. There must be a great satisfaction to run your own boat. 

Question: the modification from 16 to 17.5 is just a straight extension of the hull to transom? Are various lengths available as an option in CM’s plans? 

Best,


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## Sublime

Stevie said:


> @Sublime That is so cool. I admire all you guys that build your own skiffs. There must be a great satisfaction to run your own boat.
> 
> Question: the modification from 16 to 17.5 is just a straight extension of the hull to transom? Are various lengths available as an option in CM’s plans?
> 
> Best,


@Stevie At this time I do not know of any plans drawn at any other length than the 16 foot version. I had emailed Chris about my desire to stretch it out. He replied with how to add an extra station and kind of "flow" things from the original last station _through_ the extra station and on to the transom. I thought and thought on how to pull that off. Fact is that Chris has built a lot of boats and could probably do that in his sleep, but I just wasn't comfortable with potentially messing the running surfaces up. Plus my CAD buddy eventually started doubting himself as well. 

*Any future builders. Follow the advice below at your own risk* *and please sign the release waiver. *

In steps Capehorn 19. He informed me that on his build he simply spaced the stations at 20 inches instead of 18 inches. The only problem you might run into would be the potential for the foam to sag with the longer spans. To alleviate this, my plan is to buy some eps foam from Home Depot and "trim out" one edge of each station with it. It is readily available in 1" and 2" thickness. I'm not telling anyone to do this, but it is what I am doing and I think it will be fine. It seems to have worked out nicely for Capehorn.


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## el9surf

Sublime said:


> @Stevie At this time I do not know of any plans drawn at any other length than the 16 foot version. I had emailed Chris about my desire to stretch it out. He replied with how to add an extra station and kind of "flow" things from the original last station _through_ the extra station and on to the transom. I thought and thought on how to pull that off. Fact is that Chris has built a lot of boats and could probably do that in his sleep, but I just wasn't comfortable with potentially messing the running surfaces up. Plus my CAD buddy eventually started doubting himself as well.
> 
> *Any future builders. Follow the advice below at your own risk* *and please sign the release waiver. *
> 
> In steps Capehorn 19. He informed me that on his build he simply spaced the stations at 20 inches instead of 18 inches. The only problem you might run into would be the potential for the foam to sag with the longer spans. To alleviate this, my plan is to buy some eps foam from Home Depot and "trim out" one edge of each station with it. It is readily available in 1" and 2" thickness. I'm not telling anyone to do this, but it is what I am doing and I think it will be fine. It seems to have worked out nicely for Capehorn.



Not sure I completely understand your use of the eps foam but I will add this just in case. Be careful if you plan to glass over it. Normal polyester resin will melt the eps foam. Epoxy would be ok as long as you mix it in a shallow container so it doesn't build up a lot of heat.


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## kamakuras

I recommend bridging the keel all the way back to station 1 with some wood. I used 3/4x3/4 oak I had laying around. Furring strips would work. I only bridged from the keel insert back to station 6 and had bowing between station 4and 5 that had to be corrected. If I did it over I would definitely have done this. I would have also started strip planking at station 4 rather than 5 to further reduce this. Using a larger piece around that curve added to the hook.


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## Pole Position

kamakuras said:


> I recommend bridging the keel all the way back to station 1 with some wood. I used 3/4x3/4 oak I had laying around. Furring strips would work. I only bridged from the keel insert back to station 6 and had bowing between station 4and 5 that had to be corrected. If I did it over I would definitely have done this. I would have also started strip planking at station 4 rather than 5 to further reduce this. Using a larger piece around that curve added to the hook.


Are you talking about notching the frames and running one continuous piece, or just placing a piece between the frames and not notching?


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## Sublime

el9surf said:


> Not sure I completely understand your use of the eps foam but I will add this just in case. Be careful if you plan to glass over it. Normal polyester resin will melt the eps foam. Epoxy would be ok as long as you mix it in a shallow container so it doesn't build up a lot of heat.


I will be using the EPS foam to make the station wider so the foam core will have less of a distance to span. Will glue to the stations with some kind of liquid nails etc.

Edited to add another "tip". I buy a lot of stuff off of amazon. The other day I knew I would be needing some more c clamps so I looked on Amazon but never ordered. Decided to stop by my LOCALLY owned hardware store on the way home the other day and found the same clamps for like 20% less and I'm supporting a local business and families.


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## Capehorn 19

I was able the space my stations apart without too much worry because I also added 2 inches of width and height to my skiff. I drew it out on paper before I started to make sure my hull lines would match a 16’. I built my skiff using Chris’s (incomplete) paper plan before the CADs were finished I was already having to figure some things out through email and on my own so I figure why not Make it the size I wanted it. It did add a lot of work though. 

I’ll believe that all Chris is suggesting you do is take some long Pattens, Attach them at your key points, Extend them to where you want your transom, make sure it looks good to you, and make another station to fit You can always fair the foam before glassing If you needed to add any filler I would resin coat the hull first. 
Chris also gave me a tip of attaching strips of 1/4” plywood cut across the grain between stations to keep the foam even


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## Sublime

@Capehorn 19

Interesting on the plywood strips. Once you have all the plywood holding all the foam down, then what?

And is that a full piece of Coosa from side to side on the transom and thickness?


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## KurtActual

The lines on these are just so beautiful.

Besides owning a Sabine Skiff, building my own Conchfish is on my bucketlist.

Thanks for sharing all these pics guys!


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## kamakuras

kamakuras said:


> I recommend bridging the keel all the way back to station 1 with some wood. I used 3/4x3/4 oak I had laying around. Furring strips would work. I only bridged from the keel insert back to station 6 and had bowing between station 4and 5 that had to be corrected. If I did it over I would definitely have done this. I would have also started strip planking at station 4 rather than 5 to further reduce this. Using a larger piece around that curve added to the hook.


Either way. I just cut and tacked. My Brad nailer is my favorite tool.


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## Troy_time

My stations are 21 apart 

There is definitely a little more movement then I’d like.
But I’m simply just using 4mm mdf cut into 1’ strips between stations and adding some either side of where the planks end


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## Capehorn 19

Sublime said:


> @Capehorn 19
> 
> Interesting on the plywood strips. Once you have all the plywood holding all the foam down, then what?
> 
> And is that a full piece of Coosa from side to side on the transom and thickness?



The plywood strips between stations holds the foam together and flush while the glue dries. Next day I moved up. 

Anybody taking on this project will have to get creative 16’ / 17.5. CAD plans or not It’s gonna get low tech right off the bat. 


My transom is one piece 3/4” coosa, maybe 1/4” kerf cut inside to allow the curve, flat and a added 1”1/2 coosa where the motor mounts I added the second 3/4” coosa to the flat section of transom after I flipped the hull.


----------



## Pole Position

^
As someone suggested earlier, I'm wondering if a bead / cove edge on the foam may further help in keeping the strips flush ( ?? ) Theoretically, it should....


----------



## yobata

Pole Position said:


> ^
> As someone suggested earlier, I'm wondering if a bead / cove edge on the foam may further help in keeping the strips flush ( ?? ) Theoretically, it should....


You can get male and female bull nose router bits in many sizes for less than $50 for both - of course you will need a router table with horizontal and vertical feather boards


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Hey guys, alls looking really great. Today finds me anchored off of Rapa Nui Easter Island in the South Pacific.
Been away from WiFi for awhile. 
Everything you all have been coming up with is just fine. My only thing to say is to not stress over the tolerances too much. THe computer drawings are very tedious because they are perfect. My hand drawn plans using my eyes to measure a pencil line are rounded off to the eighth of an inch.
The fact is once you have the core attached to the jig you will Fair it and take off a 1/6”-3/16” of an inch here and there. Then comes the glassing and fairing which adds it back plus some.
The jig is to support the shape. In the end you determine its final look by how well you Fair it and the chine edge details.
Stretching the Skiff the ways you are doing it is fine. It’s just a matter of supporting the core.
I will check in here as I reach Islands with WiFi.
Picture is of dinner enroute on 21 days passage from Panama.
Take care


----------



## Guest

Chris Morejohn said:


> Hey guys, alls looking really great. Today finds me anchored off of Rapa Nui Easter Island in the South Pacific.
> Been away from WiFi for awhile.
> Everything you all have been coming up with is just fine. My only thing to say is to not stress over the tolerances too much. THe computer drawings are very tedious because they are perfect. My hand drawn plans using my eyes to measure a pencil line are rounded off to the eighth of an inch.
> The fact is once you have the core attached to the jig you will Fair it and take off a 1/6”-3/16” of an inch here and there. Then comes the glassing and fairing which adds it back plus some.
> The jig is to support the shape. In the end you determine its final look by how well you Fair it and the chine edge details.
> Stretching the Skiff the ways you are doing it is fine. It’s just a matter of supporting the core.
> I will check in here as I reach Islands with WiFi.
> Picture is of dinner enroute on 21 days passage from Panama.
> Take care
> View attachment 59716


I must say... I am a bit jealous of breakfast!


----------



## Sublime

I'm ready to buy my foam core. If anyone has sourced foam core west of the Mississippi, post up. As of now Fiberglass Florida has quoted me the best deal on Divinycell brand. I have a quote from another place that carries a different brand as well.


----------



## jonny

You doing a raised floor or nonliner? Was curious how big the step onto the deck was gonna be. I know HB did a raised area for a cooler on the cored floor models. To help with the knee breaker big step up.


----------



## Sublime

I’m back to no floor. And by coincidence I just messaged Chis about the ledge.


----------



## jonny

Sublime said:


> I’m back to no floor. And by coincidence I just messaged Chis about the ledge.


Depending on where your front deck ends. That first step can be 19-20" easy. Which ain't easy on my abused old knees. You may want to look at a double core floor and a ledge to knock a few inches off. This is a big draw back to no-liner skiffs with a decent amount of freeboard. On my Guide the step with the liner is about 15". Without the liner it would be 22" or more. What are estimating the step at at this point? You can pick a station where your deck will be ending. And add a inch or so to that height. And it will give you a good estimate. If it's 15-17" you should be ok with no ledge.


----------



## flyclimber

I would add the ledge! You won't regret it!


----------



## Sublime

jonny said:


> Depending on where your front deck ends. That first step can be 19-20" easy. Which ain't easy on my abused old knees. You may want to look at a double core floor and a ledge to knock a few inches off. This is a big draw back to no-liner skiffs with a decent amount of freeboard. On my Guide the step with the liner is about 15". Without the liner it would be 22" or more. What are estimating the step at at this point? You can pick a station where your deck will be ending. And add a inch or so to that height. And it will give you a good estimate. If it's 15-17" you should be ok with no ledge.


Yes, the stations there are 17ish inches, so final step up around 19". A ledge would be nice as would a double core. The double core so I could have somewhat of a sump in the stern for water to collect. But first things first I need to get a hull built lol.


----------



## DuckNut

Could you add a ledge/step and instead of making just a step, put a hinged lid on it and make it a storage compartment? It would be a great place to store lots of items that would be readily available.


----------



## hunterbrown

DuckNut said:


> Could you add a ledge/step and instead of making just a step, put a hinged lid on it and make it a storage compartment? It would be a great place to store lots of items that would be readily available.


There was a chittum that had something like that a few years ago but it was with a floor, it might have been set up as a cooler.


----------



## hunterbrown

Found it


----------



## DuckNut

That is the idea.

Thanks Hunter


----------



## Net 30

Sublime said:


> Yes, the stations there are 17ish inches, so final step up around 19". A ledge would be nice as would a double core. The double core so I could have somewhat of a sump in the stern for water to collect. But first things first I need to get a hull built lol.


For what it's worth - my 17.8 Whipray was a no floor version with the flat cooler shelf. The height of the forward bulkhead was 15" which was the exact same height as a 65qt. Frigid Rigid cooler. Made the step up easy.


----------



## Guest

This pic belongs to someone on this site, but here is the “original”


----------



## jonny

15" is the perfect height. 17" is about the upper limit for most peeps. With the cooler on the ledge you lose the advantage of the ledge. As far as helping with the step up. You are back to stepping from the floor to the same height as the deck. Unless you lost a couple of inches of freeboard. By being a couple of feet rearward. A shorter cooler would be the ticket. If you could find one


----------



## sjrobin

The curved floor of a no-liner Morejohn design is the hazard when stepping down or up to the bow deck, but adding just a step would create another tripping hazard or mis-step. That is why you don't see many glassed in steps.


----------



## Sublime

So I added some width to the upper spray rails. Just 3/4" so I don't think it will upset anything with stability when standing on the edge of the skiff. I also got my stem mocked up after a couple of tries due to me increasing the build length.

I think I have found a shop near my house to deliver a skid of foam to so after a couple of phone calls, I should have foam on the way.

This weekend I will mock up all the chines out of some thin stuff I have laying around. I plan on using 1/4" foam with a layer of glass to stiffen it up for fitting. Other people have used 1/4" coosa because it is stiffer, but the place I am ordering foam from doesn't carry it, so I'll work with what I can get.


----------



## Guest

Lookin good brother!


----------



## jonny

Sublime said:


> So I added some width to the upper spray rails. Just 3/4" so I don't think it will upset anything with stability when standing on the edge of the skiff. I also got my stem mocked up after a couple of tries due to me increasing the build length.
> 
> I think I have found a shop near my house to deliver a skid of foam to so after a couple of phone calls, I should have foam on the way.
> 
> This weekend I will mock up all the chines out of some thin stuff I have laying around. I plan on using 1/4" foam with a layer of glass to stiffen it up for fitting. Other people have used 1/4" coosa because it is stiffer, but the place I am ordering foam from doesn't carry it, so I'll work with what I can get.
> 
> 
> View attachment 62064
> View attachment 62066
> View attachment 62074
> View attachment 62076


Looking good man. Hey if you haven't pulled the trigger on the foam yet. Check out Fiberlay they carry Orca brand foam in all configurations. I just picked up six sheets of 3/4". I want to say it was $135 or so for a 4x8 sheet. I think 1/2" was $115 or so. Been real happy with it so far. Maybe NASA can tell the difference. Between Divinycell and Orca. But I damn sure can't .


----------



## Sublime

jonny said:


> Looking good man. Hey if you haven't pulled the trigger on the foam yet. Check out Fiberlay they carry Orca brand foam in all configurations. I just picked up six sheets of 3/4". I want to say it was $135 or so for a 4x8 sheet. I think 1/2" was $115 or so. Been real happy with it so far. Maybe NASA can tell the difference. Between Divinycell and Orca. But I damn sure can't .


Were they 4 x 8s. Their website list the size as about 24 sf each.


----------



## jonny

Sublime said:


> Were they 4 x 8s. Their website list the size as about 24 sf each.


It's actually a bit off from 4x8. It's like 3.5x7.15 but that's the size. Some are 96" long. A tip on your station. Round/angle the leading edges over a bit. It will keep it more true to your drawing.


----------



## EvanHammer

I'd like to come check this out in person! What power are you leaning toward?


----------



## Sublime

EvanHammer said:


> I'd like to come check this out in person! What power are you leaning toward?


Come one by. 50 Tohatsu four stroke. Short shaft.


----------



## kschaumburg

he posted some pics of a build called a megalops on his insta

has anyone seen any specs or drawings for that hull


----------



## Sublime

kschaumburg said:


> he posted some pics of a build called a megalops on his insta
> 
> has anyone seen any specs or drawings for that hull


I think that is what the man form down under is building.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/australian-skiff-build.60118/


----------



## Sublime

Foam has been ordered! Enough for two skiffs !

Let me get the first one built and then we'll worry about the second one I want to build for my son who just accepted a job in Lacombe Louisiana. Let's just say it will be very different from the current build. Still a Conchfish but back to 16 foot and completely different layout and maybe a tunnel.


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Sublime said:


> Foam has been ordered! Enough for two skiffs !
> 
> Let me get the first one built and then we'll worry about the second one I want to build for my son who just accepted a job in Lacombe Louisiana. Let's just say it will be very different from the current build. Still a Conchfish but back to 16 foot and completely different layout and *maybe a tunnel*.


----------



## jonny

Sublime said:


> Come one by. 50 Tohatsu four stroke. Short shaft.


The best motor option out there for a small skiff IMHO. Excellent choice
Tiller or Wheel?


----------



## Sublime

jonny said:


> The best motor option out there for a small skiff IMHO. Excellent choice
> Tiller or Wheel?



I'm waffling back and forth on this. I've pretty much ruled out a center console as I don't want a floor and thus won't have a means to run cables. I loved the openness of my old tiller BT and although I liked the coffin box and grab bar on my Glades X from a running perspective, it cramped up the cockpit too much for my likes. As of Feb 22nd, a side console is ever so slightly in the lead.


----------



## jonny

Sublime said:


> I'm waffling back and forth on this. I've pretty much ruled out a center console as I don't want a floor and thus won't have a means to run cables. I loved the openness of my old tiller BT and although I liked the coffin box and grab bar on my Glades X from a running perspective, it cramped up the cockpit too much for my likes. As of Feb 22nd, a side console is ever so slightly in the lead.


I have written on here several times. Of my love of a good SC design on these narrow beam skiffs. A Center console leaves you sitting awkward with two on the bench. And adds excessive weight and complexity. If it's a wider boat then a CC is the obvious choice. But it's hard a beat a tiller for simplicity. A often overlooked aspect of a tiller. Is the quick/instant steering. Very important if you like to run narrow mangrove lined creeks like me. You just can't get the response out of a wheel. Although lock to lock numbers have improve over the last few years. You still look like a monkey fornicating with a football. Working that wheel back and forth.


----------



## Sublime

The start of my resin has arrived.


----------



## Guest

Hey, you make me look bad and I won’t help any more!


----------



## Sublime

Picked the foam up at my buddy’s shop this morning. Tucked away in my barn for now.


----------



## trekker

kamakuras said:


> I recommend bridging the keel all the way back to station 1 with some wood. I used 3/4x3/4 oak I had laying around. Furring strips would work. I only bridged from the keel insert back to station 6 and had bowing between station 4and 5 that had to be corrected. If I did it over I would definitely have done this. I would have also started strip planking at station 4 rather than 5 to further reduce this. Using a larger piece around that curve added to the hook.


I see this term "hook" alot referring to hulls. What is it ?


----------



## Sublime

trekker said:


> I see this term "hook" alot referring to hulls. What is it ?


More often than not a little 'lip" built into the bottom of the stern at the edge. Helps the boat from porpoising (and robs some speed) . Should not be needed with tabs.


----------



## Tx_Whipray

I've also heard it used on Sport Fishers and other hand planked hulls (not hulls out of a mold) to describe a flawed running surface. "Warped", if you will.


----------



## Sublime

So let me get a little ahead of myself, but not too far. Someone talk to me about recessed trim tabs. I'm doing the curved transom, but I personally don't like the look of the wedges you have to add to mount tabs to. Anyone have some pictures or knowledge of how the tabs on say a Maverick look like? Are the bottoms of the tab perfectly flush with the hull bottom? What kind of gap around the edge between the tab and the hull? I imagine if you get it wrong you end up with some unwanted drag at a minimum.

Thanks

Here is a pic of what I am going for


----------



## Rick88

you wind up with quite a bit more drag from that I've read and with the flat bottom these boats need all the help they can get top end wise
I think the tabs are more responsive mounted one way over the other also I just don't recall which is more


----------



## Sublime

Rick88 said:


> you wind up with quite a bit more drag from that I've read and with the flat bottom these boats need all the help they can get top end wise


That's the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Adding wedges would be a lot easier, but I just don't like the look. I'll have this beautiful curved transom and then stick two goiters on it.


----------



## SeaDrifter

Looking great so far!


----------



## yobata

Sublime said:


> That's the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Adding wedges would be a lot easier, but I just don't like the look. I'll have this beautiful curved transom and then stick two goiters on it.











Why would a little goiter like that bother me? No, not a bit. It's nothing. It's nothin', it's um, in fact, it's um, it's very distinctive, y'know? Um, I mean you want to know something? I, *I* wish I had a goiter! [pause] Really.


----------



## Sublime

Oh heck. I just found the whole Drake Outlaw discussion here. I'm just trying to find a way around adding the wedges.


----------



## texasag07

I disagree with ricks statement on the recessed tabs. So I have a hard time believing there is any or much drag caused by the tab. Yet it is sure a lot more work when building a hull to recess then rather than just bolting them onto the transom. 

My 18 has them and I would not trade them out for standard outboard of transom if I could do anything about it.

Nothing of the recessed tabs sticks out below the hull bottom when no tab used, not even the bolt heads.

They are also a pretty dang tight fit.

Not ever having to worry about someone hanging fly line, flies or a fish getting tied up in them is pretty awesome.

Granted a decent part of this is probably hull design, but the farthest I have ever seen the tab when I engage it to adjust the skiff( I don’t have auto up) is about 1/2” adjustment, I could not say the same for my copperhead or a decent amount of other skiff I have been on. Usually when putting the skiff on plane zero tab is used and then a one touch of either the left or right tab sets it where she needs to be, or one touch on the left and right to drop the nose a bit to soften the ride.


----------



## 17376

Rick88 said:


> you wind up with quite a bit more drag from that I've read and with the flat bottom these boats need all the help they can get top end wise
> I think the tabs are more responsive mounted one way over the other also I just don't recall which is more


I for once agree with Rick88. The water gets between the hull and tab creating drag. It too is less responsive because it is trying to leverage a foot from the rear of the boat instead of all the way at the back.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

My Maverick has recessed tabs, a tunnel and a shitload of oyster rash and top speed is 34.2 with a triple cupped holeshot prop, me (220#), an ice chest with 20# ice, my girlfriend, a bunch of gear and 18 gallons of fuel. Pretty fast for a 70 2 stroke, my buddy has a 2013 Maverick and 4 stroke 70 and with a single cup three blade top end with us and similar load is about 36 and that’s pushing 6400rpm. I wouldn’t fret over the recessed tabs causing drag. It acually runs fastest with the tabs down some to counter the excess motor trim.
As for the tabs being less responsive, they are VERY responsive. If they were any larger or further back I’d venture to say TOO responsive and touchy.


----------



## jonny

Sublime wish you were close by? I have a recessed trim tab mold I would loan you. I first built mine with recessed tabs. And then went to a standard mount. Just flatten out the mounting area parralel to motor plane. Or run it flat from chine to chine. This will give you a slight pocket/setback affect on plane. Might be able to run a bit higher. I also went with the Lenco shorties. They don't stick out too far. And are not so sensitive to adjustments. Plus they are strong as hell. No plastic bits on the tab mounts all SS thru bolts.
Here are my thoughts/experiences with tabs on SMALL skiffs:

Recessed tab pockets
- noisey-covers help
-better clearance for fishing
- no dig when backing in water or mud
-less leverage on hull. This not always a bad thing. Most small skiffs are way too sensitive to tab adjustment.
-no hull length affect on plane/hole shot
- some drag on hull in theory. But nothing noticeable in the real world variables/conditions
-little to zero assist for slow speed planing
- very clean look
- can't be used as a step

Surface mount:
- quiter especially with a rounded transom
- added obstacle for fishing. If the outboard doesn't get you. The shorties help with this
- your friends and family will at some point use it as a step
-digs in on backing and when you stayed a little too long on that low tide mud flat
-hull length affect for better planing and faster hole shots
- can be very sensitive to adjustment. Again the shorties help with this.
- bigger tabs will stay on plane at slower speeds. This is nice for shallow winding creeks and other situations
- doesn't look as clean as recessed

May have forgot a few points. Feel free to add on


----------



## Pole Position

Are you sure you're going to need them? I know of a couple of completed builds where the owners said they weren't necessary...

(oops--forgot you were extending yours to 17.5; would probably be best to instal them )


----------



## Sublime

yobata said:


> Why would a little goiter like that bother me? No, not a bit. It's nothing. It's nothin', it's um, in fact, it's um, it's very distinctive, y'know? Um, I mean you want to know something? I, *I* wish I had a goiter! [pause] Really.


Great episode. Well played sir.


----------



## Rick88

Travis Smith said:


> I for once agree with Rick88. The water gets between the hull and tab creating drag. It too is less responsive because it is trying to leverage a foot from the rear of the boat instead of all the way at the back.


Uh ohh if Travis agrees I must have been wrong ...recessed tabs it is


----------



## mtoddsolomon

Recent photo of @Travis Smith and @Rick88


----------



## Rick88

Dibs on Matthau


----------



## EdK13

Smackdaddy53 said:


> My Maverick has recessed tabs, a tunnel and a shitload of oyster rash and top speed is 34.2 with a triple cupped holeshot prop, me (220#), an ice chest with 20# ice, my girlfriend, a bunch of gear and 18 gallons of fuel. Pretty fast for a 70 2 stroke, my buddy has a 2013 Maverick and 4 stroke 70 and with a single cup three blade top end with us and similar load is about 36 and that’s pushing 6400rpm. I wouldn’t fret over the recessed tabs causing drag. It acually runs fastest with the tabs down some to counter the excess motor trim.
> As for the tabs being less responsive, they are VERY responsive. If they were any larger or further back I’d venture to say TOO responsive and touchy.


Your rash is just right to break up the water tension.


----------



## bryson

I would bet that any additional drag due to flush tabs is <0.1% of the total drag of the hull. Not a noticeable increase.

Tabs off the back may have slightly more effect on hull attitude per amount moved, but like mentioned before, it doesn't take much anyway to adjust.

I think the performance aspects should take a backseat to about everything else. @jonny hit most of the big things to consider. Just figure out how important each thing is to you. I'm sure you'll be happy with the performance of either setup when on plane, as long as everything is put together correctly.


----------



## Guest

EdK13 said:


> Your rash is just right to break up the water tension.


You sure know a lot about @Smackdaddy53 ‘s rash


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Pole Position said:


> Are you sure you're going to need them? I know of a couple of completed builds where the owners said they weren't necessary...
> 
> (oops--forgot you were extending yours to 17.5; would probably be best to instal them )


Anyone that says trim tabs aren’t needed are being silly or are just misinformed. They aren’t just for “fixing” planing issues due to bad hull design or poor weight distribution. The ability to adjust the attitude of the hull on plane and to assist jumping on plane are two of the biggest reasons to have trim tabs. A lot of folks are under the impression that tabs are band-aids for hulls that porpoise. They do work for that application but are definitely not the only reason to contemplate adding them.
I could show you guys how to hop up on plane in half a boat length doing a straight hole shot in super shallow water using both tabs down and feathering up as you get on top. You can also spin up right or left and get the stern up faster on one corner by dropping the tab on the side you are spinning up towards. Being able to lift the side of the hull that you are quartering chop when crossing open bay area can be the difference between getting soaked by side spray or keeping that side up so the spray shoots out and away from the hull.


----------



## Guest

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Anyone that says trim tabs aren’t needed are being silly or are just misinformed. They aren’t just for “fixing” planing issues due to bad hull design or poor weight distribution. The ability to adjust the attitude of the hull on plane and to assist jumping on plane are two of the biggest reasons to have trim tabs. A lot of folks are under the impression that tabs are band-aids for hulls that porpoise. They do work for that application but are definitely not the only reason to contemplate adding them.
> I could show you guys how to hop up on plane in half a boat length doing a straight hole shot in super shallow water using both tabs down and feathering up as you get on top. You can also spin up right or left and get the stern up faster on one corner by dropping the tab on the side you are spinning up towards. Being able to lift the side of the hull that you are quartering chop when crossing open bay area can be the difference between getting soaked by side spray or keeping that side up so the spray shoots out and away from the hull.


Well said sir! This comment should be a sticky!


----------



## Sublime

Okay, I told you guys I would keep an accounting on costs. So far, real numbers are.

$1005 on all my foam. Hull, transom and chines.

I haven't bought all of my resin yet. The 4.5 gals I have so far cost me $261 delivered from US composites.

You guys that are lucky enough to live close to places that stock this stuff can pay a little less than that.

The strongback I don't have as good of records due to multiple trips to Home Depot. I would say I have around $350 in MDF (5 sheets), lumber and fasteners.

My total projection with a new 30 horse outboard and putting some money into a Ramlin trailer my friend is giving me is around $11k.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

You have to account for brewskis but I guess that’s a given...


----------



## Net 30

Best of luck on the build...neat to watch.

All this talk about the drag caused by tabs has got me cracking up. When you consider all the other factors that effect drag and draft, coupled with the fact that boats are by nature pretty inefficient, I'd be more concerned with fairing out the oyster rash on the hull bottom & keeping it slick smooth & polished.

We're not talking about aero packages on F1 cars where lap times and Pole Position is often determined by a few hundredths or thousandths of a second.

Maybe I've mellowed as I get older but to put this much thought on how much drag is produced by something that's basically flush to the hull bottom, makes skiff ownership too technical for me & takes the pleasure out of the simple things in life like the fact that my battery hasn't died and all my electronics still work each time I launch.

That being said - would I ever own a skiff without tabs? Nope.


----------



## DuckNut

@Sublime what panels are you using?

Isn't carbon core the old nidacore company? 3m bought nidacore and last I heard they put that segment back up for sale but I lost track.


----------



## Guest

Carbon core does produce a honey comb, the pe foam he is using I reccomended after testing for the las year or so with good success. It is a 5lb foam and some will list that it isn’t as “strong” as h80 d cell, or core cell but after testing for a while I can tell ya it’s properties are plenty strong for boat building!


----------



## devrep

actually a slick smooth and polished hull is the worst thing you can do. you need some roughness to break the surface tension. why a golf ball has dimples.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

devrep said:


> actually a slick smooth and polished hull is the worst thing you can do. you need some roughness to break the surface tension. why a golf ball has dimples.


I like oyster rash


----------



## Guest

I leave my personal hull bottoms in the orange peel!


----------



## jonny

Any legit TPS should have lots of rash. Or you are not using it properly.


----------



## Sublime

Between helping my son move this weekend and some other stuff , I didn’t get a whole lot done. I got some 3/4” wide strips of MDF glued in between some of the stations in areas where others have had issues with the foam deflecting. Then I got all of the spray chine mocked up and the forward part cut out of some 3/8” thick, 8# foam. Will get the rest cut out this week, then it’s off to Louisiana this weekend.


----------



## Tigweld

You are going with no floor right? What core for hull bottom?


----------



## DuckNut

Boatbrains said:


> Carbon core does produce a honey comb, the pe foam he is using I reccomended after testing for the las year or so with good success. It is a 5lb foam and some will list that it isn’t as “strong” as h80 d cell, or core cell but after testing for a while I can tell ya it’s properties are plenty strong for boat building!


I was inquiring as to the origins of the company. I looked at their website and their sample box appears identical to the company Nidacore. Their product line is identical as best as I can remember.

If it is the same company, 3M didn't shred them while they owned them.

Nevermind, found the answer
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/lugus-launches-carbon-core-corp


----------



## Sublime

Tigweld said:


> You are going with no floor right? What core for hull bottom?


No floor, but I'm thinking about doubling the core in the cockpit all the way back to the splash well. Then at the splash well, I will dig the single layer of foam out leaving just the glass on the hull. That would stiffen things up _and_ give the water a place to gather at the bilge pump and keep my feet a lot drier. With the layout I have in mind, I think I can easily come in around 300 lbs on the finished hull. Same 3/4" CarbonCore foam everywhere.


----------



## Sublime

DuckNut said:


> I was inquiring as to the origins of the company. I looked at their website and their sample box appears identical to the company Nidacore. Their product line is identical as best as I can remember.
> 
> If it is the same company, 3M didn't shred them while they owned them.
> 
> Nevermind, found the answer
> https://www.compositesworld.com/news/lugus-launches-carbon-core-corp


Thanks for finding that.


----------



## Guest

Do double the core if going without a floor, you won’t regret it! It will stiffen the hull bottom tremendously and help eliminate any oil canning/floor flex.


----------



## No Bait / Lures Only

Sublime said:


> No floor, but I'm thinking about doubling the core in the cockpit all the way back to the splash well. Then at the splash well, I will dig the single layer of foam out leaving just the glass on the hull. That would stiffen things up _and_ give the water a place to gather at the bilge pump and keep my feet a lot drier. With the layout I have in mind, I think I can easily come in around 300 lbs on the finished hull. Same 3/4" CarbonCore foam everywhere.


My spear glades x was similar with a 1 1/2" cored bottom n no flex at all, same situation n needed a sump at transom.


----------



## trekker

Sublime said:


> No floor, but I'm thinking about doubling the core in the cockpit all the way back to the splash well. Then at the splash well, I will dig the single layer of foam out leaving just the glass on the hull. That would stiffen things up _and_ give the water a place to gather at the bilge pump and keep my feet a lot drier. With the layout I have in mind, I think I can easily come in around 300 lbs on the finished hull. Same 3/4" CarbonCore foam everywhere.


Tell me more aboit this CarbonCore foam. Not familiar with it.


----------



## Guest

trekker said:


> Tell me more aboit this CarbonCore foam. Not familiar with it.


It’s a 5lb polyester foam that is sutable for anywhere you’d use a 5lb foam.


----------



## Sublime

Not a lot of progress. Helped my son move to Louisiana last weekend, then back to work, then started feeling sick. Tested positive for influenza A last night ✔ . On a good note, I scored a free Ramlin from a buddy that’s redoing his rig.


----------



## Tigweld

Will it fit??


----------



## rvd

Great thread! I just caught up. Thinking to start a build on a 16 with my boys later this spring in Rockport, will have lots of questions and open to ideas and help from some of you Texas guys that might be in the area.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Anyone that says trim tabs aren’t needed are being silly or are just misinformed. They aren’t just for “fixing” planing issues due to bad hull design or poor weight distribution. The ability to adjust the attitude of the hull on plane and to assist jumping on plane are two of the biggest reasons to have trim tabs. A lot of folks are under the impression that tabs are band-aids for hulls that porpoise. They do work for that application but are definitely not the only reason to contemplate adding them.
> I could show you guys how to hop up on plane in half a boat length doing a straight hole shot in super shallow water using both tabs down and feathering up as you get on top. You can also spin up right or left and get the stern up faster on one corner by dropping the tab on the side you are spinning up towards. Being able to lift the side of the hull that you are quartering chop when crossing open bay area can be the difference between getting soaked by side spray or keeping that side up so the spray shoots out and away from the hull.


Just anchored here in Nuku Hiva in the Marquesas with WiFi. I totally agree with the above and Jonny’s pros and cons on tabs. All my designs are based on trim tabs to be used to bring the hull to it’s full potential.
The wedges needed to square the tabs out perpendicular to the centerline only need to be the width of the tabs mounting plate. They can be a piece of plastic, hardwood or integrated into the hull. I would use the width and the smallest radius in putty when building. Previous builds are bigger then what I would do but it’s the builders first time so.... yea they can be trimmer neater.
OR you can make a slight recess. I like my tabs right out on the stern for the leverage it gives. Moving forward lessens this crow bar effect. I also like to plane along at 9-10 mph with the tabs down to slowly check things out. 
This hull shape can be used without trim tabs but you will lose 75% of what you can do with with them in an instant.
If you build the hull with 3/4” core it’s bottom will be perfectly stiff. But as Boatbrains said doubling the core will make it doubly stiff. If doing this I would glass the inside layer on the first core and then bond the top layer to it then glass again on top. This will make it super stiff. Adds added flotation too.
On the Chines they can be built using core, coosa is not needed at all ever. I would layup a sheet of fiberglass on a waxed table or sliding glass door of 3 layers of 1-1/2 oz. matt and cut out and lay in place. Way cheaper this way. 
If adding core it’s can be done in scarps and the added thickness just means the spray rail is 5/8” deeper if using 3/4” core. No one will notice. Skiff will be drier by 5/8”. Ha.
In WiFi here for a couple of days then sailing to Hawaii. 
Looking good


----------



## Pudldux

What about the penta trim tabs. Very clean finished look.


----------



## C Brueckner

Pudldux said:


> What about the penta trim tabs. Very clean finished look.



I sure hope other people have had better luck then I did with the Volvo trim tabs. I replaced wires, switches, PC board, trim tabs, every component on mine and they still malfunctioned and threw codes all the time. I ended up replacing them because I was so sick and tired of wasting money trying to fix them. 

Just my experience with them.


----------



## Pudldux

C Brueckner said:


> I sure hope other people have had better luck then I did with the Volvo trim tabs. I replaced wires, switches, PC board, trim tabs, every component on mine and they still malfunctioned and threw codes all the time. I ended up replacing them because I was so sick and tired of wasting money trying to fix them.
> 
> Just my experience with them.



I had them on my old BT Osprey. Worked great when they worked but seem to have issues. Just not sure if the newer ones are better.


----------



## sss

Chris Morejohn said:


> Just anchored here in Nuku Hiva in the Marquesas with WiFi. ...
> In WiFi here for a couple of days then sailing to Hawaii.
> Looking good


From the middle of the Pacific, near the equator, replying to support, enlighten and encourage. Amazing not only that it's possible in this age, but also that he is actually out there doing it. Stud.
Sublime, I'm enjoying the build and learning from it. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Today’s technology is amazing for sure. I can be reached for questions for my designs via my Garmin Enreach.
I have it on all the time. You have to use the link shown and text using 60 characters at a time. No photos can be used but I can answer questions daily. To get online here I have to have good WiFi. I’am currently sitting in a small cafe in a very small town in the Marquesas islands. If too many people get online I can’t send anything out. I leave sailing to Hawaii in a week and will not be near WiFi till May, but I can be reached all the time via Enreach.
Here’s a picture of my wife Rachel and one of the islands here named Ua Pou with our self designed and built 110 lb Micro skiff on deck of the mothership.
This design is 29 years old and has the rash to show for it.
The Wahoo here in French Polynesia are called Tazards. I caught this one going along the shoreline 200’ out going along at 4-1/2 knots on a handline.
Keep up the great building, take care


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Oh yea, I am 5’3” tall so that Tazard is not very big.


----------



## iMacattack

Chris, enough boat building talk...great pix on Instagram! Cheers!


----------



## Sublime

Thanks Chris. I've been following on IG. Keep the adventure going and the pics coming.


----------



## Sublime

Okay, haven't made much progress lately. I'm going to try and get my "ledge" in place this week on which I will core/layup my rub rail. I'm still going the no cap route, with the two boxes in the back like an old school whip.

I put in some little supports made out of MDF strips on the spray rail. That should keep the 3/8" , 8 pound foam I am using there from sagging while I am laying it up. The strips were really easy to make, especially since I have a stationary belt sander. I just cut a bunch on the table saw. Then I cut the approximate length and start fine tuning on the belt sander. I will use 5 minute epoxy to hold in place. I bet I had one side fitted up in under 45 minutes.










I have decided to go with a straight transom. It is just simpler and will make mounting trim tabs straight forward. We'll see how much radius I put on the corners. For my transom, I am using some 20# 3/4" foam from Spaceage Synthetics. It is what our local Johnson Fiberglass in Houston carries. The 20# foam has glass strands mixed in. They also carry a 24# foam that has some sort of woven in it. I'll double it up to 1.5" in the middle where the outboard will hang.

Okay for those wanting to build a straight transom. I ended up making another station #1 out of the 20# foam. When tilted on a 14 degree angle, the bottom comes out really, really close. I will have to trim the sides up a little, but not much. The best batten I found was this piece of trim angle. I think I got it from Home Depot. It has just enough back bone. I agonized over "fitting" up the transom, but it is really straight forward. Don't be afraid of getting the line to
flow.

PS even though I plan on using a 15" motor, I cut the transom height at 21". Just in case I get some kind of smoking deal I can't refuse on a 20" motor. My turn key, ready to fish build cost is projecting at $9,778  with a new 30 horse Tohatsu. We'll see how close I get.

Sunday I'm off to Salt Lake for the week then looks like I'll be going to Pennsylvania and/or Virginia in May. I need to start getting more done on weekdays.


----------



## Sublime

Was in Salt Lake last week, but back now. Got my "ledge" built out of 1/2" MDF to lay out my gunnel on. It is trimmed to 4" off each station in this picture. If anyone has access to an old Whip with no walkable gunnels, I'd appreciate some rough dimensions on the overhang. I am thinking 3 inches right now. Plans for now are to core the gunnel and a vertical strip to attach a rub rail to. I will put packing tape on the MDF like others have done to hopefully make lifting the hull off later go smoother.










With only two hands, sometimes you have to improvise. lol


----------



## kamakuras

Marquesa is 2.5” which is what I did on my Conchfish, think whip is about the same.


----------



## jonny

Those Volvo tabs give zero help on slow speed planing.


----------



## jonny

Sublime said:


> Okay, haven't made much progress lately. I'm going to try and get my "ledge" in place this week on which I will core/layup my rub rail. I'm still going the no cap route, with the two boxes in the back like an old school whip.
> 
> I put in some little supports made out of MDF strips on the spray rail. That should keep the 3/8" , 8 pound foam I am using there from sagging while I am laying it up. The strips were really easy to make, especially since I have a stationary belt sander. I just cut a bunch on the table saw. Then I cut the approximate length and start fine tuning on the belt sander. I will use 5 minute epoxy to hold in place. I bet I had one side fitted up in under 45 minutes.
> 
> View attachment 68610
> 
> 
> I have decided to go with a straight transom. It is just simpler and will make mounting trim tabs straight forward. We'll see how much radius I put on the corners. For my transom, I am using some 20# 3/4" foam from Spaceage Synthetics. It is what our local Johnson Fiberglass in Houston carries. The 20# foam has glass strands mixed in. They also carry a 24# foam that has some sort of woven in it. I'll double it up to 1.5" in the middle where the outboard will hang.
> 
> Okay for those wanting to build a straight transom. I ended up making another station #1 out of the 20# foam. When tilted on a 14 degree angle, the bottom comes out really, really close. I will have to trim the sides up a little, but not much. The best batten I found was this piece of trim angle. I think I got it from Home Depot. It has just enough back bone. I agonized over "fitting" up the transom, but it is really straight forward. Don't be afraid of getting the line to
> flow.
> 
> PS even though I plan on using a 15" motor, I cut the transom height at 21". Just in case I get some kind of smoking deal I can't refuse on a 20" motor. My turn key, ready to fish build cost is projecting at $9,778  with a new 30 horse Tohatsu. We'll see how close I get.
> 
> Sunday I'm off to Salt Lake for the week then looks like I'll be going to Pennsylvania and/or Virginia in May. I need to start getting more done on weekdays.
> 
> View attachment 68608
> View attachment 68612


Where are you located? I have a tiller Tohatsu 30 20" TT four stroke with a Bobs manual jack plate. That is only 2.5" of setback. You can have both for $2500.


----------



## jonny

[QUOTE="
Okay for those wanting to build a straight transom. I ended up making another station #1 out of the 20# foam[/QUOTE]

I would check the measurements on stations 1-4. And see if there's a bit of change of height. I am sure Chris has some rocker in there. You may need to slightly decrease the transom. To continue the rocker. Instead of being flat or a possible slight hook.


----------



## Sublime

jonny said:


> [QUOTE="
> Okay for those wanting to build a straight transom. I ended up making another station #1 out of the 20# foam


I would check the measurements on stations 1-4. And see if there's a bit of change of height. I am sure Chris has some rocker in there. You may need to slightly decrease the transom. To continue the rocker. Instead of being flat or a possible slight hook.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I am . The way it looks I can sand the high edge of the station ( because it's on an angle) and it will come out perfect. For sure don't want any hook issues.


----------



## jonny

What degree are you doing on the transom?


----------



## Sublime

jonny said:


> What degree are you doing on the transom?


Sitting at 14 right now.


----------



## lsunoe

Nice work so far man. Really enjoy these build threads and each one I see makes me want to do my own more and more.


----------



## bryson

Funny this stuff is coming up right now. I just checked with Chris a couple weeks ago to ask about these exact two things for the hull extension -- the transom angle and rocker in the chines (I was worried about being able to get the bow up if needed). He said we shouldn't need to add rocker to the chines, just extend them flat. He also said that we could do the transom angle as prescribed if we wanted, which I think is right around 11 degrees, if I remember correctly.


----------



## 17376

jonny said:


> [QUOTE="
> Okay for those wanting to build a straight transom. I ended up making another station #1 out of the 20# foam


I would check the measurements on stations 1-4. And see if there's a bit of change of height. I am sure Chris has some rocker in there. You may need to slightly decrease the transom. To continue the rocker. Instead of being flat or a possible slight hook.[/QUOTE]

Not to derail your thread, do you have pictures of it?


----------



## Sublime

Travis Smith said:


> I would check the measurements on stations 1-4. And see if there's a bit of change of height. I am sure Chris has some rocker in there. You may need to slightly decrease the transom. To continue the rocker. Instead of being flat or a possible slight hook.]
> 
> Not to derail your thread, do you have pictures of it?



Yes, the stations, and thus the hull bottom, have rocker towards the back. I’m just saying that for those wishing to stretch the skiff out, you can cut out another station #1 and come pretty dang close with minimum adjusting once it is tilted. This is especially true if you cut “inside” the lines all the way around the station. If I would have cut it like that, I would not have much adjusting to do at all. What I will do now is trim the top of the transom that is resting on the strong back and I will be good to go.

The three or four guys I to on IG are all stretching theirs out. Maybe Chris and Nathan can eventually include drawings for a 16’ and 17’-8” with a straight transom. And drawings in metric would make layout go much faster.


Need about another 3/16" - 1/4" trimmed off the transom station.










Everyone keep the questions and comments coming. I can almost guarantee that I am doing something stupid at any given step.


----------



## 17376

Sorry sublime I was wanting to see a picture of Johnny’s boat


----------



## Sublime

Travis Smith said:


> Sorry sublime I was wanting to see a picture of Johnny’s boat


No problem. I do too.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Sublime said:


> Yes, the stations, and thus the hull bottom, have rocker towards the back. I’m just saying that for those wishing to stretch the skiff out, you can cut out another station #1 and come pretty dang close with minimum adjusting once it is tilted. This is especially true if you cut “inside” the lines all the way around the station. If I would have cut it like that, I would not have much adjusting to do at all. What I will do now is trim the top of the transom that is resting on the strong back and I will be good to go.
> 
> The three or four guys I to on IG are all stretching theirs out. Maybe Chris and Nathan can eventually include drawings for a 16’ and 17’-8” with a straight transom. And drawings in metric would make layout go much faster.
> 
> 
> Need about another 3/16" - 1/4" trimmed off the transom station.
> 
> View attachment 71312
> 
> 
> Everyone keep the questions and comments coming. I can almost guarantee that I am doing something stupid at any given step.


Just anchored here in Hilo Hawaii. Back online now. Nathan and I will provide a full sheet on a stretched CONCHFISH 17.6”. We will start on this this week. I can have gotten lots of questions on doing this.
I will see about having metri numbers done too. To me it’s way easier to use metric when measuring out things.
I will add in the flat transom details and the rounded curved stern option like on the Lithium and my other skiffs too.
I will let you all know as soon as we get it done. Shouldnt take long.
I like seeing the little tweaks being done to the design like on the spray rails.
There are 30 CONCHFISH builds that I know of now going on.
I will try and catch up reading what’s up here on MS now that I’am back near the matrix.
Looks great !


----------



## LowHydrogen

Chris Morejohn said:


> Just anchored here in Hilo Hawaii. Back online now. Nathan and I will provide a full sheet on a stretched CONCHFISH 17.6”. We will start on this this week. I can have gotten lots of questions on doing this.
> I will see about having metri numbers done too. To me it’s way easier to use metric when measuring out things.
> I will add in the flat transom details and the rounded curved stern option like on the Lithium and my other skiffs too.
> I will let you all know as soon as we get it done. Shouldnt take long.
> I like seeing the little tweaks being done to the design like on the spray rails.
> There are 30 CONCHFISH builds that I know of now going on.
> I will try and catch up reading what’s up here on MS now that I’am back near the matrix.
> Looks great !


Can you also draw up a tutorial on hand-lining Wahoo?? Only joking but, that's awesome as hell!!


----------



## Guest

^^^ THIS!!!


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Well here’s what the stretched CONCHFISH will look like. Drawings will be ready soon. It looks bigger but it’s just visual mostly. This will be a great skiff though. Build this skiff with my tunnel design and a set in flush with the stern jack plate with a 50 hp Tohatsu or their new model and what a nice Texas skiff. Will save you about $50,000.00 over that store bought one with the flat bottom.


----------



## Guest

Chris Morejohn said:


> View attachment 72026
> View attachment 72028
> View attachment 72030
> Well here’s what the stretched CONCHFISH will look like. Drawings will be ready soon. It looks bigger but it’s just visual mostly. This will be a great skiff though. Build this skiff with my tunnel design and a set in flush with the stern jack plate with a 50 hp Tohatsu or their new model and what a nice Texas skiff. Will save you about $50,000.00 over that store bought one with the flat bottom.


Nice!


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Chris Morejohn said:


> View attachment 72026
> View attachment 72028
> View attachment 72030
> Well here’s what the stretched CONCHFISH will look like. Drawings will be ready soon. It looks bigger but it’s just visual mostly. This will be a great skiff though. Build this skiff with my tunnel design and a set in flush with the stern jack plate with a 50 hp Tohatsu or their new model and what a nice Texas skiff. Will save you about $50,000.00 over that store bought one with the flat bottom.


I really didn't need to read that....really


----------



## Guest

Tx_Whipray said:


> I really didn't need to read that....really


You know you wanna!


----------



## Sublime

Tx_Whipray said:


> I really didn't need to read that....really


Chris' tunnel plans are online. JS


----------



## Pole Position

Chris Morejohn said:


> View attachment 72026
> View attachment 72028
> View attachment 72030
> and a set in flush with the stern jack plate


Let me go ahead and be the idiot that asks: other than moving weight forward for presumably better balance, what does mounting the jack plate flush accomplish?


----------



## Guest

Pole Position said:


> Let me go ahead and be the idiot that asks: other than moving weight forward for presumably better balance, what does mounting the jack plate flush accomplish?


It reduces the fulcrum effect of the setback. But... will also reduce the available water to prop/cooling system when on plane due to reducing the setback that tends to allow us to run all jacked up and trimmed out. It also reduces the total length of the package possibly allowing it to fit in a garage better.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Boatbrains said:


> It reduces the fulcrum effect of the setback. But... will also reduce the available water to prop/cooling system when on plane due to reducing the setback that tends to allow us to run all jacked up and trimmed out. It also reduces the total length of the package possibly allowing it to fit in a garage better.


BB has it down pat. It also makes its look better, cooler, and it brings the steering cable back in line with the stern if not using hydraulic steering. The engine is up under the tower better, etc.
But as the builder you can do what ever you want.


----------



## msmith719

Do you have a site where the plans are available?


----------



## Guest

msmith719 said:


> Do you have a site where the plans are available?


http://chrismorejohn.com/conchfish-16-plans-for-sale/
Here ya go!


----------



## Chris Morejohn

msmith719 said:


> Do you have a site where the plans are available?


Plans are $300.00 for all pdf files, tunes plans, cad CNC files and my advice for the build.
Email me at..... [email protected] Or [email protected]
All my 15 other designs are for sale at the same price.


----------



## msmith719

Chris; where are the other 15 plans shown? I'm interested in a little larger skiff that will fish 3 adults. I've checked your blog but did not find drawings.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

msmith719 said:


> Chris; where are the other 15 plans shown? I'm interested in a little larger skiff that will fish 3 adults. I've checked your blog but did not find drawings.


You have to buy them...


----------



## msmith719

LOL! I know they have to be bought! I'm not a Democrat and I am a high school and college graduate! Where can I look at the dang plans so I can decide if there is one my sons and I would be interested in?


----------



## DuckNut

msmith719 said:


> LOL! I know they have to be bought! I'm not a Democrat and I am a high school and college graduate! Where can I look at the dang plans so I can decide if there is one my sons and I would be interested in?


I was wondering the same thing. So i looked at his blog...nope. i looked at his website...nope. l looked at his etsy site...nope.

What I think is he has them available but not loaded to a particular website yet.

Hang tight he will reply and then we will know.


----------



## devrep

I looked too and couldn't find them.


----------



## albrighty_then

Chris said in another thread he's working on getting them on his blog, he's in the process of finishing plans and getting his boat ready


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Sooo.....


----------



## Sublime

I know right? My travel for work and hay stuff is over for now. Taping up stations this week.


----------



## Sublime

Finally getting a little foam on. I’m making somewhat of a mess with my gorilla glue. I’ll take any pointers on how people are applying it. When I get to the bottom pieces and have vertical surfaces, it’s really going to run.

I had never worked with foam before and I had many questions. So for those who are starting builds but haven’t worked with it either, here are some observations.

The strip in the first picture is 2.5” and easily conformed to the shape you see. Obviously, the wider the strip gets the harder it will be to bend and at some point, it won’t. 

You can cut it with a box cutter. In fact, you only have to cut about 75% of the way through and then it will snap cleanly. However I am cutting my straight strips on the table saw. Yes, I will lose some to the kerf, but it is less than 1/8”. So, I can cut a whole sheet into two inch strips and I will only use a little over an inch. Given how fast and pretty the cuts are on the table saw, I can live with that.









Made some cheap "clamps" to hold things in place. Using them mostly while fitting up, but I did try a couple to hold things while gluing. We'll see if I can get them out now.















This metallic sanding attachment on this oscillating tool is coming in handy.


----------



## Sublime

Sublime said:


> Finally getting a little foam on. I’m making somewhat of a mess with my gorilla glue. I’ll take any pointers on how people are applying it. When I get to the bottom pieces and have vertical surfaces, it’s really going to run.


This would be where @Boatbrains should chime in and help a fella(s) out.


----------



## DuckNut

I've never built a hull with strip before but have made many other things by strip.

Since I know sanding sucks I decided to take the long route approach. I would dry fit every piece that I could and get them adjusted so they were damn near perfect. Then I would take it apart and glue (edit: glue was epoxy) and reassemble several strips at a time (say 6 as an example). I would use bungee cords to pull the strips together so there was little to no gap to deal with.

I would anchor an adjustable bungee on the inside and a screw head on the outside and pull just hard enough to pull them together.

On some of them I would use a hacksaw blade to saw between them so they fit better. This was a much longer approach to get the planking done but to me it gave a much better product that eliminated tons of sanding. Granted sanding foam is relatively easy, but it gets much more difficult when you fill the cracks with putty.


----------



## bryson

DuckNut said:


> I've never built a hull with strip before but have made many other things by strip.
> 
> Since I know sanding sucks I decided to take the long route approach. I would dry fit every piece that I could and get them adjusted so they were damn near perfect. Then I would take it apart and glue (edit: glue was epoxy) and reassemble several strips at a time (say 6 as an example). I would use bungee cords to pull the strips together so there was little to no gap to deal with.
> 
> I would anchor an adjustable bungee on the inside and a screw head on the outside and pull just hard enough to pull them together.
> 
> On some of them I would use a hacksaw blade to saw between them so they fit better. This was a much longer approach to get the planking done but to me it gave a much better product that eliminated tons of sanding. Granted sanding foam is relatively easy, but it gets much more difficult when you fill the cracks with putty.


This is the biggest reason I decided to go with the Gorilla Glue rather than epoxy. Not so much that sanding epoxy is so tough, but that it will sand very differently than the surrounding foam.

@Sublime, my GG is dripping pretty good, and I'm not sweating it too bad. I try to wipe off as much as I can with a gloved hand, but I figure the rest will sand off pretty easily. Also, as I move along and get a better feel for how much it expands, I'm sure I will make less of a mess.


----------



## DuckNut

@bryson I would agree with you on the Gorilla Glue. I used epoxy and the method I did because I felt the adhesion was better with epoxy than the GG. Also, I have little experience with GG but very familiar with epoxy. I chose epoxy because I know it's properties and did not go with GG and risk the unknown.

It sounds like people are having good success with GG and foam and that would make for a much faster and easier project.


----------



## Troy_time

The gorilla glue sands sooo easy 

A quick sand over the hull with a electric sander once all finished 
You can feel when you get the the core, it’s a complete different feel 

From all my off cuts where gorilla glue was used to join , the core broke first before the joint every time, even when there was next to no glue in the joint


----------



## DuckNut

Troy_time said:


> The gorilla glue sands sooo easy
> 
> A quick sand over the hull with a electric sander once all finished
> You can feel when you get the the core, it’s a complete different feel
> 
> From all my off cuts where gorilla glue was used to join , the core broke first before the joint every time, even when there was next to no glue in the joint


If using GG with wood and trying to fill a gap the stuff has the holding power of scotch tape. But I have not tried it with foam. Maybe some day, but not today.

If I were to guess the GG expanded foam would be relatively equal to the breaking point of the foam, but my concern is the shearing properties.


----------



## Troy_time

DuckNut said:


> If using GG with wood and trying to fill a gap the stuff has the holding power of scotch tape. But I have not tried it with foam. Maybe some day, but not today.
> 
> If I were to guess the GG expanded foam would be relatively equal to the breaking point of the foam, but my concern is the shearing properties.


Wouldn’t as a whole the glass be taking up the strength 
As the glass would have to compress enough to break as well to apply the pressure to the core and gorilla glue 

I thought that was the point of sand which construction and where it strength comes from

That’s my understanding of it


----------



## Guest

The glue is only there to hold the foam in shape so you can pull the screws and putty the gaps with thickened resin. No point getting carried away with the glue. Just use enough and in enough places to hold that shape until you can putty it up.


----------



## DuckNut

Boatbrains said:


> The glue is only there to hold the foam in shape so you can pull the screws and putty the gaps with thickened resin. No point getting carried away with the glue. Just use enough and in enough places to hold that shape until you can putty it up.


I hope you're right in your assumption.


----------



## Guest

@DuckNut, what I am saying is use as little as needed and let the thickened resin do it’s job. This way, you only have small areas that are held with glue. The glue will become part of the core. I also know that the foam will break before the glued joint every time. But would rather have the resin fill the void


----------



## DuckNut

Boatbrains said:


> @DuckNut, what I am saying is use as little as needed and let the thickened resin do it’s job. This way, you only have small areas that are held with glue. The glue will become part of the core. I also know that the foam will break before the glued joint every time. But would rather have the resin fill the void


I 100% agree. I get the impression/feeling some are filling gaps with the glue. Maybe that is OK but not for me.


----------



## bryson

DuckNut said:


> I 100% agree. I get the impression/feeling some are filling gaps with the glue. Maybe that is OK but not for me.


I was concerned about some of this too, so GG sent me a datasheet -- they didn't have nearly as much info on the mechanical properties as I had hoped, but it did show that the shear strength and tensile strength are both significantly higher than Diab H80.

I like that it expands and fills some gaps between strips, but I wouldn't use it for the express purpose of gap-filling. I plan to do kind of what @Boatbrains said -- the only difference is that I'm not using as little as needed, I'm using enough to feel like I get full coverage. I don't mind some drips. I don't want to have any air bubbles between strips, and if I get GG across the whole joint I know that I'll be good.

If I were to only use enough glue to hold it in place, there's a solid chance I may not be able to force resin into every void, especially since I wouldn't be able to squeeze it through the seam to the inside of the hull.

Basically I'll glue it all up and sand the whole hull, but I won't add GG afterwards if I end up with any gaps. I'll handle that with thickened epoxy.


----------



## bryson

Troy_time said:


> Wouldn’t as a whole the glass be taking up the strength
> As the glass would have to compress enough to break as well to apply the pressure to the core and gorilla glue
> 
> I thought that was the point of sand which construction and where it strength comes from
> 
> That’s my understanding of it


The outer layers of glass are in tension and compression, and the foam is in shear. If the shear strength of the foam is too weak and it breaks, or if the bond between the foam and the skin is poor, then each skin can move independently of each other, which takes away the whole point of the sandwich construction.


----------



## Guest

bryson said:


> I was concerned about some of this too, so GG sent me a datasheet -- they didn't have nearly as much info on the mechanical properties as I had hoped, but it did show that the shear strength and tensile strength are both significantly higher than Diab H80.
> 
> I like that it expands and fills some gaps between strips, but I wouldn't use it for the express purpose of gap-filling. I plan to do kind of what @Boatbrains said -- the only difference is that I'm not using as little as needed, I'm using enough to feel like I get full coverage. I don't mind some drips. I don't want to have any air bubbles between strips, and if I get GG across the whole joint I know that I'll be good.
> 
> If I were to only use enough glue to hold it in place, there's a solid chance I may not be able to force resin into every void, especially since I wouldn't be able to squeeze it through the seam to the inside of the hull.
> 
> Basically I'll glue it all up and sand the whole hull, but I won't add GG afterwards if I end up with any gaps. I'll handle that with thickened epoxy.


Bryson, I see your point too. Now keep in mind the properties of GG are very similar to spray foam in the can. That being said, it is full of air and voids that can trap moisture. I know it will be only a teeny tiny amount. Also, you will have more voids to putty when you flip and this is when you hit any voids you missed from the other side.


----------



## Sublime

bryson said:


> I was concerned about some of this too, so GG sent me a datasheet -- they didn't have nearly as much info on the mechanical properties as I had hoped, but it did show that the shear strength and tensile strength are both significantly higher than Diab H80.
> 
> I like that it expands and fills some gaps between strips, but I wouldn't use it for the express purpose of gap-filling. I plan to do kind of what @Boatbrains said -- the only difference is that I'm not using as little as needed, I'm using enough to feel like I get full coverage. I don't mind some drips. I don't want to have any air bubbles between strips, and if I get GG across the whole joint I know that I'll be good.
> 
> If I were to only use enough glue to hold it in place, there's a solid chance I may not be able to force resin into every void, especially since I wouldn't be able to squeeze it through the seam to the inside of the hull.
> 
> Basically I'll glue it all up and sand the whole hull, but I won't add GG afterwards if I end up with any gaps. I'll handle that with thickened epoxy.


You saved me a lot of typing. I'm not "stitch" gluing at all. I'm running full beads on every edge. if I end up with gaps here and there, then I will fill those with putty. Like @Boatbrains said, when I flip it, there will be gaps to fill I'm sure.


----------



## Sublime

Making progress. Have my sheer, spray rails and sides starting to go. The strips for my sides are 2” wide and I’ve been gluing them end to end with 5 minute epoxy. That way I can throw the whole length up at one time. My stem is coming out nicely. I’m skipping to the lower chines next.


----------



## Sublime

Btw, best I can tell right now is that my skiff will end up with an 18'-3" OAL. A little more than I expected, but will be fine.


----------



## DuckNut

Awesome job Sublime.


----------



## Zika

Making some significant progress. Nice. 

I really admire those of you who have the patience and diligence to build your own skiffs. Looks to be a daunting task at times, but the finished skiffs always turn out great. 

Keep sharing the updates.


----------



## yobata

Sublime said:


> Btw, best I can tell right now is that my skiff will end up with an 18'-3" OAL. A little more than I expected, but will be fine.


Sorry if I missed something, but how did you go from 17'6" to 18'3"?


----------



## Guest

Transom angle!


----------



## Sublime

yobata said:


> Sorry if I missed something, but how did you go from 17'6" to 18'3"?


Lol, good question. The 17.5 plans were not available when I started so I followed @Capehorn 19 s advice and spaced my stations @ 20” vs 18”. That and the resulting tweaking of the stem and the angle of the transom as @Boatbrains said. It may come out closer to 18’ even. Won’t know for sure until I get her flipped and a “cap” on the bow and stern.


----------



## Sublime

Btw, I don't remember if I have mentioned it here before, but I am going to do the "keel-ettes". I don't necessarily like how they look, but I am confident they will help in tracking (both on plane and while poling). Secondly, they keep the spray from riding up the hull sides and hitting the underneath side of the cap. Every skiff I have ever been on does this. 










Also, I am 90% sure I will utilize basalt cloth on the outside of the hull. So maybe 2 layers of 10 oz followed by a layer of basalt as I think Chris has mentioned somewhere.


----------



## GullsGoneWild

Sublime said:


> Btw, I don't remember if I have mentioned it here before, but I am going to do the "keel-ettes". I don't necessarily like how they look, but I am confident they will help in tracking (both on plane and while poling). Secondly, they keep the spray from riding up the hull sides and hitting the underneath side of the cap. Every skiff I have ever been on does this.
> 
> View attachment 84744
> 
> 
> I'd like to come help one day with the stich and glue and the glassing once you get there. I want to build one too but have zero experience.
> 
> Also, I am 90% sure I will utilize basalt cloth on the outside of the hull. So maybe 2 layers of 10 oz followed by a layer of basalt as I think Chris has mentioned somewhere.


----------



## kamakuras

@Sublime If you don’t like them don’t do them. I have some video of me running a creek this week cutting turns. It carves and on pole tracks as straight as you would want. Also can show some more running video of the water in the back. Barely comes up the sides and nowhere near coming into the cap. I know exactly what you are talking about and this skiff does not do it. But if you decide to do it it will only improve all of these characteristics. I personally think they look cool!


----------



## Sublime

@kamakuras they've been growing on me, so I think I will do them.


----------



## albrighty_then

Wouldn't they just be asking to be broken off? Or are they pretty durable? I think they look bad ass but I'd be scared to crack one.


----------



## Sublime

albrighty_then said:


> Wouldn't they just be asking to be broken off? Or are they pretty durable? I think they look bad ass but I'd be scared to crack one.



I’m not _too_ worried about it. I’ll beef the glass up in that area or maybe even build them out of solid glass. I would think you would have to hit something sliding sideways at speed to break anything on them. And if you hit something straight on, the shock will be transmitted straight up the hull side in that area. If you look, they are not the lowest point on the hull either and one could make them even shorter, although that would cut down on their effectiveness.


----------



## albrighty_then

Yea that makes sense


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> I’m not _too_ worried about it. I’ll beef the glass up in that area or maybe even build them out of solid glass. I would think you would have to hit something sliding sideways at speed to break anything on them. And if you hit something straight on, the shock will be transmitted straight up the hull side in that area. If you look, they are not the lowest point on the hull either and one could make them even shorter, although that would cut down on their effectiveness.


If you aren’t getting her sideways now and then you’re missing out man!


----------



## Sublime

Back from Colorado last week. Ahhhh, overnights lows in the 50s.

Making some progress. I was going to just run the two inch strips all the way to the stern but I was getting some wonky waves between station one and the stern. Looks like station one has a beveled edge that’s part of the culprit. So I’m running the strips back to station two and I’ll use one piece of foam for the back piece after I’m satisfied with the stations.

I've been messy with my glue. There's a window when you can scrape it off like magic. After that it gets too gummy. Oh well, nothing the sander won't take care of.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Looking good!


----------



## jglidden

Still time to add a tunnel!


----------



## Jason

Looks like the 2" strips laid out well all the way around. How many sheets did it take to get to this point with the ripped sheets? Seems like a good point to go to bigger pieces


----------



## Sublime

Jason said:


> Looks like the 2" strips laid out well all the way around. How many sheets did it take to get to this point with the ripped sheets? Seems like a good point to go to bigger pieces


I'm well into my 4th sheet now. It will take 5 sheets (including the flange) to get it done probably. Remember my skiff is coming out 18 feet long. On a 16 you could probably do it in 4 if you're careful. I'm ripping on a table saw, so I am losing some there.


----------



## LanceD

Hello Sublime, been monitoring the build from over here in west Texas. Looks fantastic. I saw you went with core cell by the pic. If you don’t mind, where did you end up ordering from? Just planning ahead. I know you said you ordered enough for 2 skiffs. Did they offer price break? Thanks, and again really enjoying monitoring the progress.


----------



## Sublime

LanceD said:


> Hello Sublime, been monitoring the build from over here in west Texas. Looks fantastic. I saw you went with core cell by the pic. If you don’t mind, where did you end up ordering from? Just planning ahead. I know you said you ordered enough for 2 skiffs. Did they offer price break? Thanks, and again really enjoying monitoring the progress.


Yes, Carbon Core. All I ever priced was a full crate (16 sheets). My shipping was around $150 if I recall. I am probably not going to end up building a second skiff so eventually I will have some sheets to sell, but not until I get my skiff built.


----------



## Sublime

Getting ever so closer to having all the foam on. Would have had it done , but spent the weekend cutting hay and cussing the round baler.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Make hay while the sun shines!


----------



## Sublime

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Make hay while the sun shines!


Had my third bale spinning and about done when an idler conked out and threw a chain. Went and cut another guy's field in return for him coming out and finishing mine (already had mine sold) . Always something.


----------



## Fritz

Lucky you can roll those bails, when you said you sold to horse people I thought you might be square bailing, that usually means throwing hay bales... which is hard work.

I come from a long line of dairy farmers, I was so happy when my uncle bought the round bailer.


----------



## RogueTribe

Grew up on a 80 acre hobby farm and threw bales all summer. Loved the workout and the cash, hated the rash. I miss the smell of fresh cut alfalfa.


----------



## Sublime

Fritz said:


> Lucky you can roll those bails, when you said you sold to horse people I thought you might be square bailing, that usually means throwing hay bales... which is hard work.
> 
> I come from a long line of dairy farmers, I was so happy when my uncle bought the round bailer.



I'd love to do square bales, but the logistics and timing is hard. Especially if you sell it in the field. Years ago, my dad would fertilize and keep the weeds in control and a guy would come square bale it. When everything came together, he could get 80 square bales (jigs grass) per acre. It was unbelievable.


----------



## FireTurtle

Sublime said:


> Getting ever so closer to having all the foam on. Would have had it done , but spent the weekend cutting hay *and cussing the round baler*.


Cussing at the bailer is just part of making hay. If it ain't the baler that needs a good cussing, it's the rake, if it ain't the rake, then it was the sickle bar.


----------



## Sublime

Hit a milestone with all of the foam on except the flange and I may take @bryson ’s lead and just go all glass there. Not quite five sheets of foam to this point. I’m happy with it.


----------



## Fritz

Very nice, congrats!


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## el9surf

Wow, looking great!


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## Sublime

Okay here goes a dumb question maybe.

Preferably, I will get a couple of guys together and get all of my glass on in ONE session. If that doesn't happen, I'll put one layer on at a time. So here is my question. Can a person lay the glass from side to side across the boat instead of lengthways? Yes, you'd end up with more seams, but it sure would be simple from the aspect of cutting glass and not having to worry with were long seams and where they land.


----------



## Zika

Can't answer the glassing question, but the foam is looking good!


----------



## Fritz

On my next build I will do the glassing differently. I’m not afraid to do the work alone, but I would not attempt all three layers in one pass, two max. Being prepped properly before hand is huge.

And I know you don’t want to hear this, but I’ve been working a lot lately with Peel Ply and developing a love/hate relationship with it. I wish I had used it on my hull... I think. Peel Ply does two things, it leaves you with a surface ready for the next coat of whatever, but it also wicks away a ton of extra resin, I’ve seen a part lose 15 to 25% of its weight after removing the Peel Ply. And I usually have to take paper towels and dab off some of the extra resin that’s floating to the surface of the Peel Ply.

That said, it’s a medium sized pain in the ass pulling that stuff off, the thought of doing that for an entire Conchfish is intimidating... maybe even depressing.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Sublime said:


> Okay here goes a dumb question maybe.
> 
> Preferably, I will get a couple of guys together and get all of my glass on in ONE session. If that doesn't happen, I'll put one layer on at a time. So here is my question. Can a person lay the glass from side to side across the boat instead of lengthways? Yes, you'd end up with more seams, but it sure would be simple from the aspect of cutting glass and not having to worry with were long seams and where they land.


Yes you can lay up the hull however you want.
I myself layup in multiple sections working alone. If using 50” Wide cloth I would layup with the 50” width going forward starting aft at the stern. I like to precut all my material and make it. I show how I mark my layers in my blog about building the one-off deck.
I would over lap the middle of the hull, or keel area and roll the cloth downwards with the cut lower edge ending just short of the lower outer Chines innner Edge. Now add the next layer on forward. Just butt the seams together as neatly as possible. This can be facilitated by rolling your pre cut cloth out tightly in a roll. You can slowly unroll and wet out as you roll it down. Keep the cloths factory edge just butting up to the first layer when rolling down and wetting out. You can pull the forwards cloth edge forward to help keep the seams neat when wetting out. Then the third layer and onwards to the bow. 
Now go right back to the stern and start with the second layer but start it 1/2-1” farther forward to form a lap over the first butted seam. Go all the way forward till finished.
Now do the last layer of cloth moving the butt seams again so all seams/butt joins are lapped.
When glassing like this in epoxy resin you can keep going because these are small areas with a small boat hull.
If you need to stop that’s ok. Just finish up the section, deal with whatever’s happening.
When starting up again if alls cured with epoxy then you need to deal with the blush before laying up on top again. But if it’s not fully cured you are good to go on again.
With polyester, vynelester resin you can start-stop with out having to deal with the layers unless you stop and start again 48 hours later. If so just agitate the cured cloth with a Scotch brute pad before laying up again.
Ok... now you have 1/2 the hull bottom done to the lower chine and say down to the upper Chines spray rail up forward. Now do the other side.
Next layup from the lower chine to the sheer but lapping the cloth on the chine flats.
This way the length wise seams are easy to fair in with putty.
These panels of cloth can be rolled downwards using gravity to let the cloth lay out while wetting out. 
If using Basalt cloth the widths of the cloth will be a bit narrower, no big deal. I would just use this cloth on the hulls outside hull bottom skin only. 10oz. Eglass cloth for the rest of the hulls build will be very strong.
Using Kevlar will do virtually nothing. Carbon cloth will just cost you $ for making the hull more brittle.
By going slowly in sections like this you will have plenty of time to wet out and squeegee out the cloth to perfection. Take your time. 
Cutting out the cloth in advance and labeling properly will take 4-5 hours. Use a magic marker to label. Mark the hull with tics to show where the edges should land, so... measure up from the stern 50”... mark, 50” mark etc.
You can do the stern last and overlap the bottom layer by 2”. Easy to fair the lap on a horizontal plane than a vertical one.
Laying up like this alone will take about 8 hours or less.
You will use less resin.

This is how I do it working alone.

If an extra couple of hands are around that’s great. Make sure everyone knows what’s going to happen. If someone’s going to be mixing make sure they understand their job.
If using epoxy resin you have to use new buckets each batch. Epoxy has a less than 1% Margin of error.
Polyester resin it goes by % of volume of resin and temperature to catalyst.
Know your shop temperature and your resins too, then do your math.

The builds I have seen with the whole hull done in long full layers have impressed me. I see from some pictures of maybe a bit too much resin. This happens when working in such large areas at one time. 
When I do glass jobs I like to divide it up into sections. 
So I would suggest if going this route to roll the cloth length up in a very nice neat tight roll and if using epoxy resin like everyone’s doing then just roll out the cloth starting at the stern unrolling say... 20” and then start wetting out that area and then work your way forward wetting out and pushing the cloth out as you go.
You will have way more control and you can stop if needed. Just cut the roll off on the dry part and move forward. Finish wetting out the unfinished section, deal with what’s up then when starting again just deal with the blush at the starting point.
Now you have total control at all times over resin content.
But for me I would divide the layup at the Chines because you can spend so much time trying to keep the airbubbles out when the cloth is over the entire hull. If it’s just a round hull like a sailboats or canoes yes 1 layer is fine.
Ok have fun and remember, if it gets out of hand just stop, have a beer. And when cured grind the edge and start again.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Fritz said:


> On my next build I will do the glassing differently. I’m not afraid to do the work alone, but I would not attempt all three layers in one pass, two max. Being prepped properly before hand is huge.
> 
> And I know you don’t want to hear this, but I’ve been working a lot lately with Peel Ply and developing a love/hate relationship with it. I wish I had used it on my hull... I think. Peel Ply does two things, it leaves you with a surface ready for the next coat of whatever, but it also wicks away a ton of extra resin, I’ve seen a part lose 15 to 25% of its weight after removing the Peel Ply. And I usually have to take paper towels and dab off some of the extra resin that’s floating to the surface of the Peel Ply.
> 
> That said, it’s a medium sized pain in the ass pulling that stuff off, the thought of doing that for an entire Conchfish is intimidating... maybe even depressing.


Peel ply can be laid on in small easy to peel off sections. Does not have to look pretty. Leave a sections edge up to grab ahold of. When I use it the area looks like a shitty paper mache job.
If seeing that much resin coming off you are over wetting out to start with. Don’t wet out the peel ply to make it look good. Wasting resin if doing so. It’s just there to make an air barrier.


----------



## Sublime

So I spent the last couple of nights moving my flange out a little to give me some more room to make my gunnel. Remember, I’m going for an old school whip with no walkable gunnels. So essentially I’ll have a “rolled” gunnel all the way around. I’ve been mocking up some gunnels and I think I’ll end up with something between 2 and 2.5 inches wide.

Other than that, I’ve got most of the screws out and have been doing a little sanding with the long board on the foam. I should have some glass bubbles coming this afternoon and I already had some cabosil. There’s some gouges in the foam here and there and a few areas where one plank wasn’t flush with the adjoining planks. I’ll fill in screw holes, gouges and the couple of low spots, then clean things up a tad more. 300 gram basalt cloth is on order. Tentatively looking at October 5th to get all the layers done in one session.


----------



## devrep

gunnel on my old waterman.


----------



## flyclimber

Are you going to add a small false floor/step to the bow? It could double as a small cooler holder.


----------



## Sublime

flyclimber said:


> Are you going to add a small false floor/step to the bow? It could double as a small cooler holder.


I have a long time before I get there. My initial plans are to double the floor up. This should make the skiff really stiff and will also give me a little place at the stern for water to gather and the bilge pump to sit. If I don't double up the floor, I will definitely look at adding the step up to the bow.


----------



## kamakuras

It looks great. I would suggest adding some extra layers of glass in that shear rolled edge to stiffen it up. Some 6-8” 1708 tape does a really nice job. Some wind will blow you into a dock one day and you want that area strong. 6 layers of 10oz cloth by itself is still quite thin and flexible. Just my experience and I am glad I added that glass there.


----------



## Sublime

I have some 4x12 test samples laid up. One is three layers 10oz eglass and the other is three layers of the 300 gram basalt twill. The back side on both is two layers of the 10oz. What kind of tests would y’all like to see? The final test will involve guns lol. 

On a side note , is it normal to be able to peel a corner back? @Boatbrains has reminded me that peeling a corner isn’t exactly representative.


----------



## Pole Position

Sublime said:


> The back side on both is two layers of the 10oz. What kind of tests would y’all like to see? The final test will involve guns lol.
> 
> .


Start out w/ a pellet gun and work your way up to , say, a 30-06. Joking aside, it would be interesting to see what 3 layers may stop.....


----------



## Guest

BFH solid backed, BFH ends blocked up, .44 mag


----------



## WC53

Scrape it across oysters


----------



## DuckNut

Support outside ends and pile weight until you get 1/4" deflection.

See how it handles rubbing on a brick or such thing.

Already know it does not absorb water so no need to test that.


----------



## Guest

BFH solid backed, BFH ends blocked up, .44 mag


----------



## Fritz

Do you have a really accurate scale? I’d like to know which weighs more.

after that, and before we get the guns out, maybe drop something kinda heavy onto each from the same height and give us an idea which one takes that abuse best.

Really cool that you’re trying the Basalt out!


----------



## Guest

Try some glancing blows with the BFH before going dead on


----------



## Sublime

Fritz said:


> Do you have a really accurate scale? I’d like to know which weighs more.
> 
> after that, and before we get the guns out, maybe drop something kinda heavy onto each from the same height and give us an idea which one takes that abuse best.
> 
> Really cool that you’re trying the Basalt out!


We have good scales at work.

I’ll do a deflection test with weights.

I think I’ll mount an old circular saw blade on an arm, prop the pieces vertically and let the arm drop. 

Then I’ll do the bullet test. How many yards away. I’ll start with 22lr and work up from there.


----------



## bryson

Good ideas -- I especially like the impact (blade drop) test. It should be relatively repeatable, and it helps visualize properties that can be tough to define on data sheets.

As for the peeling -- can you tell what is happening? Is the epoxy peeling off the foam? Is it taking any of the foam with it?


----------



## Sublime

bryson said:


> As for the peeling -- can you tell what is happening? Is the epoxy peeling off the foam? Is it taking any of the foam with it?


Here’s another patch I did. Yes , it lifts foam off with it. My thinking is that this is closed cell foam so it’s not exactly going to soak up resin much below the surface. I laid this piece up by rolling resin out with a roller and placing each piece of glass down one at a time and rolling them out individually. Next test will be roll resin on foam, let it kick and then lay the glass on.

Maybe @Chris Morejohn will chime in because I need to be talked off the ledge lol.


----------



## Fritz

I’ve put carbon or fiberglass on the PE foam and it generally is very easy to peel around the edges if you work with it. I think that foam is great stuff, but shear is not it’s strong suite. Have you noticed how much tougher the Gorilla glue is versus the PE when it comes time to sand? 

Unless the basalt is acting a lot different then the glass, I wouldn’t worry about peeling. And if the basalt is stiffer (or more flexible?) then the glass, that might help explain differences.

does the basalt feel stiffer or more flexible?

It occurs to me that your using 300 gram basalt, which is just slightly over 10oz (28.35gm per ounce), so unless it took more resin to wet the different fabrics out, they should weigh about the same.


----------



## Guest

Always wet out the foam and allow to kick before laminating. I have used most of the cores available and they will all peel from an edge or corner pretty easy with poly or epoxy. When the build is complete, there should be no edges/corners that allow the peeling to begin.


----------



## Chris Morejohn

From my experience you should be able with effort bend up a single skin of 10 oz cloth from a scrap of core by the edge. Once peeled out a half inch with effort the single layer of cloth should be able to be peeled off a bit from the laminated core but when doing so the resin should be staying on the core and the cloth should come off dry looking. The resin should be staying on the core.
The core should not be failing, that is the cloth should not fracture the core and stay stuck to the resin coating.
The only time a fracture should be seen is in test strips with cloth on both sides of the core and it is bent at an extreme angle. The core should fail-fracture before the skin does. 
A glassed sheet of core on 1 side only should be able to be bent in a circle without the laminate failing in both directions bent. 
Make up a 1 sq. Ft test panel with materials on both sides. Use a claw hammer to test with starting with the middle of the square. Use both sides of the hammer. Once beaten up good it should be that the cloth laminate still is stuck to the core and the core has not failed.
I have never seen nor worked with the Carbon Core brand of pvc cores.


----------



## Sublime

Fritz said:


> It occurs to me that your using 300 gram basalt, which is just slightly over 10oz (28.35gm per ounce), so unless it took more resin to wet the different fabrics out, they should weigh about the same.


It is 300 grams per square meter so it works out to 8.8 oz per sq yard


----------



## Sublime

So I took the 4" x 12" pieces to work and put them on a nice scale. Results were:

Three layers basalt one side, 2 layers 10oz e glass on the back side - 133.75 grams

Three layers 10oz e glass one side, 2 layers 10oz e glass on the back side - 143.75 grams

Small sample size I know, but that is good. Can't wait to get this stuff on. Took a flat head screwdriver and put it straight through another piece with just e glass. On the basalt, not so much. It laughed it off.


----------



## 17376

I don’t think that Carmen core is any good. It definitely shouldn’t separate like that. So let me know what a good time and day is to come pick up your hull.. I will dispose of it properly


----------



## Sublime

Someone help me pick out a bow eye. There are like 3000 choices out there. I need to get one in my hand or know the dimensions to sand a flat spot on my bow before glassing.

Thanks


----------



## Zika

Normally I'd suggest gemlux, accon marine or boatoutfitters, but a quick search didn't turn up any options on their sites. Maybe Boatbrains has a source?


----------



## Henry Lee Fowler IV

Check out Chris Morejohns blog for making rope bow eyes. super light and no chance of corrosion


----------



## Henry Lee Fowler IV




----------



## Henry Lee Fowler IV




----------



## Sublime

Henry Lee Fowler IV said:


> Check out Chris Morejohns blog for making rope bow eyes. super light and no chance of corrosion



That is tempting for sure. @bryson has talked about doing that as well.


----------



## Pole Position

Have you shot up the basalt yet?


----------



## Sublime

Pole Position said:


> Have you shot up the basalt yet?


I know right? I was trying to devise some fancy tests before shooting them, but I think I will just go straight to the blast test when I get home tonight. It will culminate with a "scraping" simulation involving blasting each piece with a glancing blow of 12 gauge bird shot.


----------



## Net 30

IMO I'd not do the Dyneema ring. I had a rowing skiff built and used a Dyneema bow ring and it's now looking pretty ragged and stiff...not a good look for an expensive skiff. 

They are great for most sailboat lines, mooring lines, tow and winch lines. For a watertight bow ring......stainless all day long.


----------



## SeaDrifter

rich dubroc said:


> Great thread! I just caught up. Thinking to start a build on a 16 with my boys later this spring in Rockport, will have lots of questions and open to ideas and help from some of you Texas guys that might be in the area.


 We are just outside of Port O'Connor about 45 minutes from you if you ever get in the area. After I wrap up with our bathroom remodel me and my camera guy are going to start a small build too. BTW, drinks are on me and I have plenty room in the Majek...



Michael


----------



## commtrd

Seems like for a bow eye (under much pressure on trailer) would want to back it up to spread the load to a relatively large surface area. A compacted load point like is depicted in drawings will transfer way too much force on a tight area of laminate. Just an observation.


----------



## Sublime

I might as well post the bad with the good. I put my first layer of basalt cloth down Sunday. I’m laying one-meter-wide strips from side to side, not back to front. I cut my first piece of basalt to length, mixed up my resin, poured it on the section of foam and spread it around with a squeegee. I rolled my basalt up, placed it on the centerline and unrolled one side at a time. Stepping down through the chines is tricky and it would be very advantageous to have an extra set of hands , but my dog only has paws. Anyway, I got everything rolled out, but just couldn’t keep the basalt down on my outside corners. I would “fix” a spot only to come back to find that it had lifted up again. I made a call to @Boatbrains to talk me off the ledge and messaged @bryson as well. Eventually, the resin started to kick and I had to be resigned to give up on my problem areas.

After things cured, I cut a section out with a Dremel to find the foam pretty much dry on the outside radius. @chrismorejohn said the cloth probably wicked the resin up there and that my radius looked too sharp. So now I have to cut the cloth away in those areas. I am making the radius bigger (probably with a 5/8” contour sander). I will then lay a strip of 10 oz e glass along the edges, then go on with my second and third layer of basalt. Fortunately, in laying the glass in 39” sections like I am doing, I only have a little bit of rework to do. If I had laid a section from stem to stern, I’d be hurtin’ for certain.

@chrismorejohn gave me a tip for handling the frayed edges of the basalt. He suggests laying a strip of e glass over the edge to keep all this fibers flat. The rest of the layup turned out satisfactorily. At this point I am not ready to say that the basalt doesn’t conform around edges as well as e glass. You’d be better off determining that by following the @chrismorejohn build here or IG.

Learning curves.


Pics forthcoming


----------



## LanceD

You might try spray adhesive? Just an idea for radius by yourself. They make acceptable adhesives for contour usage. Especially helpful when by yourself. I use it for finishing carbon fiber with clear epoxy when you want your lines to finish straight.


----------



## Sublime

After a long hiatus, I’m back on track again. Got all three layers on the back section and one new layer going towards the bow. The “glue” mixture @Chris Morejohn suggested worked a lot better at not getting the bubbles along the edges that I got on my first piece. I only have two small ones to fix, then next layer tomorrow night. Also thank @Boatbrains and @bryson for the support. Plans are still, cap and boxes like @Travis Smith has done on his builds, open front bulkhead, permanent tank, 30 horse tiller, jack plate.


----------



## Zika

Looking good. Kept at it and you'll be fishing it soon!


----------



## Fritz

Awesome!

Are you planning Basalt inside and out? How about the deck, glass or basalt?


----------



## Sublime

Fritz said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Are you planning Basalt inside and out? How about the deck, glass or basalt?


I _might_ use some on the cockpit floor as it might be a little quieter when something drops on it? But cap, bulkheads etc will be 10oz eglass. I also plan to build up a keel guard out of the basalt.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Looking good! I need to see this thing in person!


----------



## Mike Haydon

Where do you plan on using the skiff?


----------



## Sublime

Mike Haydon said:


> Where do you plan on using the skiff?


Most of my fishing is East Matagorda, West Matagorda, 1 or 2 trips each a year to Rockport, POC and Louisiana. 

I ran a non-tunnel BT for 9 years and then had a Spear Glades X tunnel for 18 months. A non-tunnel makes me happy in 90% of the areas I fish.


----------



## Guest

Hey, was just reading back through and realized... we never got the destructive testing results!!!


----------



## Sublime

Boatbrains said:


> Hey, was just reading back through and realized... we never got the destructive testing results!!!


I know right. I _did_ take one piece out and shoot them with a 22lr. One piece of 3/4" core with 3 each layers of 300 gram basalt twill on one side and 3 layers of 10oz on the other. 

Bullet didn't even slow down at 25 yards. My next test is to take the same piece out and shoot it with 12 gauge bird shot at a glancing blow. That is probably a more representative test. Maybe.


----------



## Guest

Sublime said:


> I know right. I _did_ take one piece out and shoot them with a 22lr. One piece of 3/4" core with 3 each layers of 300 gram basalt twill on one side and 3 layers of 10oz on the other.
> Bullet didn't even slow down at 25 yards. My next test is to take the same piece out and shoot it with 12 gauge bird shot at a glancing blow. That is probably a more representative test. Maybe.


Yeah, ballistic testing won’t show much honestly. Lay it down on the lawn and drop a big arse rock on it! Spank it with a BFH. That’ll give close to real world input.


----------



## Sublime

So I have all 3 layers of basalt on my hull and it came out awesome. I’m adding a layer of 10 oz on the running surface just for good measure and have run into an issue. My roll of 10oz has some wrinkles and I played heck last night trying to get them out. My last ditch effort was coming along and smashing them down when the epoxy was very tacky. I’ve talked with @JC Designs and @bryson. Wonder if anyone else has suggestions. The guy at US Composites recommended maybe even running an iron over the cloth pre installation. That and applying resin and letting it get tacky then lay the cloth down. And I thought the 10oz would be a piece o’cake after mastering the basalt lol.


----------



## 17376

I lay my cloth out over the boat for several hours and use the sun or a hair dryer.


----------



## omegadef

Do the wrinkles stay if you run a plastic scraper over them while the fabric is dry? 

I'm able to wet out the opposite side and pull tension across anything like that with poly resin, but I don't know what to do with epoxy. Maybe peel ply?


----------



## KurtActual

@Sublime sorry I am no help in your current situation. 

Where did you order your foam from?


----------



## Sublime

omegadef said:


> Do the wrinkles stay if you run a plastic scraper over them while the fabric is dry?
> 
> I'm able to wet out the opposite side and pull tension across anything like that with poly resin, but I don't know what to do with epoxy. Maybe peel ply?


Didn't try a scraper with dry cloth. Tried stretching that section with my hands, tried moving the cloth around with a scraper and a LOT of pressure, but the wrinkle would just come back. Looking at it this morning , it looks like no air under the wrinkle but I can definitely feel it with my hand. Not the end of the world with what I'm doing now, but when I move to the inside I don't want the same issue to fight with.


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> @Sublime sorry I am no help in your current situation.
> 
> Where did you order your foam from?


From Carbon Core. I'm using the .75" PE. I may have 4 or 5 sheets left over, but I'm afraid to part with them until I' close to finished. You're in Texas right?


----------



## KurtActual

Sublime said:


> From Carbon Core. I'm using the .75" PE. I may have 4 or 5 sheets left over, but I'm afraid to part with them until I' close to finished. You're in Texas right?


Yessir, up the road in Hockley. Not sure I could fit a Conchfish in my 3rd car bay for a build, but considering options. Was even thinking a Bateau or Salt Boatworks build, but lumber doesnt seem any easier of a material than foam for a first timer.


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> Yessir, up the road in Hockley. Not sure I could fit a Conchfish in my 3rd car bay for a build, but considering options. Was even thinking a Bateau or Salt Boatworks build, but lumber doesnt seem any easier of a material than foam for a first timer.



10-4, you're only a little over an hour away. In fact the gf was looking at horse there Friday. I'm going to remind her that when I buy an outboard for $5k that her and her friend think nothing of dropping $8k on a horse lol.


----------



## Mike Haydon

@Sublime pm sent


----------



## Sublime

Well, the cake is frosted. Starting Thursday night I’ll knock the chunks down and do some initial sanding. Then if I can get enough guys over I’ll lift it off the strong back Sunday. Final tally on resin for the hull was about 5.5 gallons. The fairing took an additional almost two gallons I’m guessing and most of a 3 gallon pail of 3m glass bubbles.

I took my flange support that you see in previous pictures off and it left me with a really nice and uniform edge. I'm totally happy with the result. After it is flipped, I'll fill that gap in with putty and round it off.


----------



## Chris Beutel

Sublime said:


> Well, the cake is frosted. Starting Thursday night I’ll knock the chunks down and do some initial sanding. Then if I can get enough guys over I’ll lift it off the strong back Sunday. Final tally on resin for the hull was about 5.5 gallons. The fairing took an additional almost two gallons I’m guessing and most of a 3 gallon pail of 3m glass bubbles.
> 
> I took my flange support that you see in previous pictures off and it left me with a really nice and uniform edge. I'm totally happy with the result. After it is flipped, I'll fill that gap in with putty and round it off.


The sad part is, you end up sanding off almost all that fairing. Looking good.


----------



## Sublime

I need to decide on a layout soon. For most of this time I have been leaning towards a 30 horse tiller, with the two boxes at the stern and open front bulkhead. This would be a super light and super simple skiff.

But now .........., I'm leaning towards the full-meal-deal. Floor, front and rear hatches, side or center console and a fitty horse. The reason I am leaning that way is that because although most of my local runs are short, I want to drag this thing to Louisiana in the winter. My twins live there now and I would probably be making some longer runs. 

@bryson is shaking his head because he has heard this so many times.


----------



## bryson

Sublime said:


> I need to decide on a layout soon. For most of this time I have been leaning towards a 30 horse tiller, with the two boxes at the stern and open front bulkhead. This would be a super light and super simple skiff.
> 
> But now .........., I'm leaning towards the full-meal-deal. Floor, front and rear hatches, side or center console and a fitty horse. The reason I am leaning that way is that because although most of my local runs are short, I want to drag this thing to Louisiana in the winter. My twins live there now and I would probably be making some longer runs.
> 
> @bryson is shaking his head because he has heard this so many times.


Good news is that there's no wrong answer -- going to be a sweet skiff any way you cut it!


----------



## Zika

Fish or cut bait, fish or cut bait?  Looking good!

I love my side console and 60 Merc. More maintenance, yes, but I can get as skinny as the fish are and it doesn't take me an hour to run to a far-off spot.


----------



## JC Designs

Zika said:


> Fish or cut bait, fish or cut bait?  Looking good!
> 
> I love my side console and 60 Merc. More maintenance, yes, but I can get as skinny as the fish are and it doesn't take me an hour to run to a far-off spot.


Yep, and after testing the X hull with a tiller I’m going with a skinny center in mine. Will do a concealed mount control box and hydraulic steering to keep the console narrow like the grab bar is In the first!


----------



## Zika

Well, I just gave Backwater another excuse to edit his Build thread.


----------



## texasag07

Look at your last two skiff’s and go with what you obviously like simple tiller....

If not you might not even remember where to fish in the backyard anymore by the time it’s done!


----------



## Sublime

texasag07 said:


> Look at your last two skiff’s and go with what you obviously like simple tiller....
> 
> If not you might not even remember where to fish in the backyard anymore by the time it’s done!



You know me well. Maybe I'll stick with a tiller but bump up the horsepower.


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Looking good! Found your insta this morning and followed.


----------



## Sublime

Got her flipped over. The first few tries we were lifting the strong back off the ground. She wasn’t having any of it. So I got underneath and unscrewed two of the stations. The next try she popped right off carrying the two stations along. If there is a next build , no more blue tape for me. The clear packing tape releases so much better.


----------



## Sublime

What is everyone's preference on front deck length? If I choose to use my old stations for a pattern, I will get the following

Station 7 - 6'-6" deck, leaving open floor of 7'-9"

Station 6 - 8'-3" deck, leaving open floor of 6'-1" 

I wish I would have measured the Spear before I sold it. It was about perfect for my taste. I want to say it was around 7 foot.


----------



## JC Designs

I really liked the 7’ on X-Caliber! You’ll have to measure and loft or make templates for your bulkhead but felt about perfect!


----------



## TidewateR

huge milestone on the flip

congrats!


----------



## bryson

Sublime said:


> What is everyone's preference on front deck length? If I choose to use my old stations for a pattern, I will get the following
> 
> Station 7 - 6'-6" deck, leaving open floor of 7'-9"
> 
> Station 6 - 8'-3" deck, leaving open floor of 6'-1"
> 
> I wish I would have measured the Spear before I sold it. It was about perfect for my taste. I want to say it was around 7 foot.


Yeah, it definitely doesn't need to line up with a station. It's convenient if it does, but it's not that tough to template one out of cheap foam or cardboard.


----------



## yobata

Sublime said:


> What is everyone's preference on front deck length? If I choose to use my old stations for a pattern, I will get the following
> 
> Station 7 - 6'-6" deck, leaving open floor of 7'-9"
> 
> Station 6 - 8'-3" deck, leaving open floor of 6'-1"
> 
> I wish I would have measured the Spear before I sold it. It was about perfect for my taste. I want to say it was around 7 foot.


I would think a 6'6" front deck would be plenty of room. Sometimes more cockpit space can be nice for camping/hunting


----------



## Sublime

bryson said:


> Yeah, it definitely doesn't need to line up with a station. It's convenient if it does, but it's not that tough to template one out of cheap foam or cardboard.


Yeah, I'll probably split the difference and leave 7 foot on the floor and the front deck with come out close to 7 ft with the overhang of the lip. Have never done it in all my years but the idea of camping in the skiff appeals to me. Maybe one day.


----------



## Sublime

I'm going to put this out there. I am building a rolling cradle now for my Conchfish build. So in a few days, I will be looking to pass the strong back and stations on to the next sucker, ummm, I mean skiff builder. A few caveats:

1) *you must have already purchased plans*
2) you must take the strong back and stations
3) I am in Angleton *TEXAS* , just south of Houston
4) I bought plans before the 17.5 plans were available. I spaced my stations out on 20" centers instead of 18" centers. The total length of my skiff with the cap on is going to end up around 18'-3". I'm positive my skiff will perform fine, but again, I tweaked things in order to achieve the length I wanted.
4.5) I built my transom station with the curve but ended up just doing a straight across transom. I think the forms for the rounded transom will get you where you need to be if you want to go that route.
5) The strong back itself is about 17 ft long, so you will need a trailer.
6) I'd like to get a little cash for the materials I have in it. If I charged for the time, we'd be up into the five figures.


----------



## Chris Beutel

That's a deal! If you are looking to build, definitely worth a drive and material costs.


----------



## Sublime

Chris Beutel said:


> That's a deal! If you are looking to build, definitely worth a drive and material costs.


Hopefully soon. Next step is to load it onto my lowboy and back it into the barn. Eventually I’ll need my trailer and if it’s not gone I’ll dismantle it.


----------



## Sublime

Well, I couldn't take it anymore. I have to get back at least one side of my garage, so I started dismantling the strong back. It has suffered fatal wounds I'm afraid. Sorry.


----------



## Sublime

My Conchfish PERT chart has had a new task inserted. Completion date pushed out. Fence building commencing.


----------



## KurtActual

Dang, just saw the post about the stations/strong back. Probably for the better that I missed out.


----------



## explorer21

Sublime i am in Lake Jackson do you have anything left using? I would be interested. Let me know thx.


----------



## Sublime

explorer21 said:


> Sublime i am in Lake Jackson do you have anything left using? I would be interested. Let me know thx.


Not really. I really needed that strong back out of my way so I dismantled it. I got to thinking that, in a way, the stations were somewhat custom. So they are on the burn pile.

Come check the skiff out sometime.


----------



## SeaDrifter

KurtActual said:


> Yessir, up the road in Hockley. Not sure I could fit a Conchfish in my 3rd car bay for a build, but considering options. Was even thinking a Bateau or Salt Boatworks build, but lumber doesnt seem any easier of a material than foam for a first timer.





Sublime said:


> 10-4, you're only a little over an hour away. In fact the gf was looking at horse there Friday. I'm going to remind her that when I buy an outboard for $5k that her and her friend think nothing of dropping $8k on a horse lol.


 Who would have known we are all close by.? I am in Bryan/College Station (where Project Skipjack is being built) and Seadrift. If y'all need anything, I have a pile of goodies literally collecting dust.



Michael


----------



## LowHydrogen

Sublime said:


> My Conchfish PERT chart has had a new task inserted. Completion date pushed out. Fence building commencing.
> 
> View attachment 137716


Bro, that's a change order. You need to talk to the Minister of War and Finance about additional funds to cover the schedule push... I'm thinking tabs or nice jack plate for compensation at a minimum.


----------



## KurtActual

@Sublime where are you? I've got a new itch for a home built skiff.


----------



## JC Designs

KurtActual said:


> @Sublime where are you? I've got a new itch for a home built skiff.


Hold off on that just a little longer! I have somethin’ cookin’ that may just spike your interest!!! Can’t disclose much at this time but will be soon!


----------



## Rollbar

JC Designs said:


> Hold off on that just a little longer! I have somethin’ cookin’ that may just spike your interest!!! Can’t disclose much at this time but will be soon!


I'm all ears!


----------



## Backcountry 16

Rollbar said:


> I'm all ears!


I know but sworn to secrecy but you will not be disappointed I can guarantee that.


----------



## Sublime

And y’all thought I gave up and listed it on Craigslist. No way. After months of not doing much on it due to a myriad of other pressing projects here, I’m finally back on it. Got my second core up on my transom. Went full width with more of the Spaceage Synthetics 20lb board. Left about 1/2” gap around the sides and bottom. Cleaned both sides with acetone. Coated both sides with neat epoxy. Applied one layer of 10oz cloth to both pieces and wetted it out. Next I mixed up some cabosil and epoxy into a something not real stiff and spread it with a squeegee. Then took the piece over and clamped and screwed it to the hull. I got good oozage around all sides and was able to work some of that into fillets. 3 layers of 10oz on the floor is next. My vision for this thing is constantly evolving. Current configuration when I’m daydreaming is. False floor. Center or offset center console. Full decks with hatches. 50 or 60 short shaft. And ................. a tunnel. Stay tuned.


----------



## bryson

Glad to see an update! Looking good!


----------



## DuckNut

Backcountry 16 said:


> I know but sworn to secrecy but you will not be disappointed I can guarantee that.


Geez man - you must be special. I just got swore at!

You guys will like it!


----------



## Smackdaddy53

You forgot the tunnel! 
Looking good man.


----------



## Sublime

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You forgot the tunnel!
> Looking good man.



Stay tuned. My cut-off wheel is primed


----------



## JC Designs

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You forgot the tunnel!
> Looking good man.


😉


----------



## DuckNut

Looks like your doing a great job - keep at her!


----------



## Pro wader

Sublime,
I just got back on the ol microskiff . I had the old, "charlies custom rods" back in the day and just got back into fishing with my Sabine Micro, (open invitation to jump in)
I'm in Lake Jackson off of Old Angleton Rd. Hit me up if you need a hand.


----------



## Wata

Sublime said:


> And ................. a tunnel.


I helped build a flats stalker 18 with a tunnel, and then modify the tunnel several times (lol) to make it perform. Let me know if you'd like any input.


----------



## Wata

Sublime said:


> What is everyone's preference on front deck length? If I choose to use my old stations for a pattern, I will get the following
> 
> Station 7 - 6'-6" deck, leaving open floor of 7'-9"
> 
> Station 6 - 8'-3" deck, leaving open floor of 6'-1"
> 
> I wish I would have measured the Spear before I sold it. It was about perfect for my taste. I want to say it was around 7 foot.


We went with a BIG front deck on the flats stalker, around 7 feet, and I regret it. If I'm not using a stripping basket or line tamer, I like to be able to strip into the cockpit. But the huge front deck makes me take a couple of steps backwards to make sure the line lands in the cockpit, and dancing around on the front is the last thing the angler should be doing. I don't think more than about 5-6 feet for a casting deck is really necessary on a poling skiff (although gas tank placement and storage needs may complicate things slightly). One of the little things, along with the tunnel, I'd change if I do it over again.


----------



## Sublime

Wata said:


> We went with a BIG front deck on the flats stalker, around 7 feet, and I regret it. If I'm not using a stripping basket or line tamer, I like to be able to strip into the cockpit. But the huge front deck makes me take a couple of steps backwards to make sure the line lands in the cockpit, and dancing around on the front is the last thing the angler should be doing. I don't think more than about 5-6 feet for a casting deck is really necessary on a poling skiff (although gas tank placement and storage needs may complicate things slightly). One of the little things, along with the tunnel, I'd change if I do it over again.



Good point about stripping into the cockpit. I hadn't really taken that into consideration.


----------



## Wata

Sublime said:


> Good point about stripping into the cockpit. I hadn't really taken that into consideration.


Also make sure you put rear-facing rod holders. That way the reel is to the angler when he wants to take the rod out or put it in. Forward facing ones only make sense to me if you need to store a lot of rods.


----------



## Wata

Wata said:


> I helped build a flats stalker 18 with a tunnel, and then modify the tunnel several times (lol) to make it perform. Let me know if you'd like any input.


Also, if you do the tunnel, remember that you'll need to raise the transom too.


----------



## Sublime

Wata said:


> Also make sure you put rear-facing rod holders. That way the reel is to the angler when he wants to take the rod out or put it in. Forward facing ones only make sense to me if you need to store a lot of rods.


Yep, had rear facing in the Glades X. Will be a little harder to pull of with stern boxes, but I only want 4 holders total. I might end up with two rear and two forward.



Wata said:


> Also, if you do the tunnel, remember that you'll need to raise the transom too.


Good to go. My transom is at 22 inches right now.


----------



## Wata

Sublime said:


> Good to go. My transom is at 22 inches right now.


Depending on how big you make the tunnel, you still might need to raise the motor if it has a 20" shaft. But there are ways to do that, like adding a plate, that don't require rebuilding the transom


----------



## Rollbar

Wata said:


> I helped build a flats stalker 18 with a tunnel, and then modify the tunnel several times (lol) to make it perform. Let me know if you'd like any input.


What was the final measurements of the tunnel and did you get w/the mfg and tell them to correct their errors, or is it you wanted a *__* tunnel for your needs?
Thanks, as I was looking into one of these until the mysterious XCaliber IV was mentioned.


----------



## Wata

Rollbar said:


> What was the final measurements of the tunnel and did you get w/the mfg and tell them to correct their errors, or is it you wanted a *__* tunnel for your needs?
> Thanks, as I was looking into one of these until the mysterious XCaliber IV was mentioned.


The Flats Stalker '18 is a kit boat with no tunnel. Most people put jet drives on them.








Flats Stalker 18 Boat Plans (FS18) - Boat Builder Central


[FS18] Flats Stalker: a easy to pole, narrow beam flats fishing skiff.




boatbuildercentral.com





We deviated from the plans to add a tunnel so we could run a prop. I'd have to go measure the dimensions of the tunnel but the bottom line was that the water needs to be clean and compressed exiting the tunnel. Tunnels that expand as they go back toward the stern give turbulent water and the prop can't bite. And the overall volume of the tunnel should be as small as possible. 

If I was doing it over for the Flats Stalker which has a 30 Etec and around 10" diameter prop, I would make a tunnel which is simply shaped like a rectangular box 20" long, 10" wide and 3" deep. The transition from hull to tunnel at the forward part of the tunnel doesn't matter, because the water flow will create a vacuum there. This probably doesn't make sense without diagrams but I'm not computer savvy enough to add those. I'll try to make a post about the Flats Stalker at some point.


----------



## Rollbar

Wata said:


> The Flats Stalker '18 is a kit boat with no tunnel. Most people put jet drives on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flats Stalker 18 Boat Plans (FS18) - Boat Builder Central
> 
> 
> [FS18] Flats Stalker: a easy to pole, narrow beam flats fishing skiff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boatbuildercentral.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We deviated from the plans to add a tunnel so we could run a prop. I'd have to go measure the dimensions of the tunnel but the bottom line was that the water needs to be clean and compressed exiting the tunnel. Tunnels that expand as they go back toward the stern give turbulent water and the prop can't bite. And the overall volume of the tunnel should be as small as possible.
> 
> If I was doing it over for the Flats Stalker which has a 30 Etec and around 10" diameter prop, I would make a tunnel which is simply shaped like a rectangular box 20" long, 10" wide and 3" deep. The transition from hull to tunnel at the forward part of the tunnel doesn't matter, because the water flow will create a vacuum there. This probably doesn't make sense without diagrams but I'm not computer savvy enough to add those. I'll try to make a post about the Flats Stalker at some point.


Ok thanks.
I get it. 
Appreciate it


----------



## jasonrl23

Wata said:


> The Flats Stalker '18 is a kit boat with no tunnel. Most people put jet drives on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flats Stalker 18 Boat Plans (FS18) - Boat Builder Central
> 
> 
> [FS18] Flats Stalker: a easy to pole, narrow beam flats fishing skiff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boatbuildercentral.com


That is a nice looking skiff!


----------



## Sublime

Okay folks. I have the front and rear bulkheads glued in. Final dimensions are 7 foot front deck, 7 foot on the floor and my stern boxes are 48 inches long and 23 inches between them. I just glassed one side of the stern box sides just now. It's in the 70s today so that should cure decent by tomorrow at least enough for me to flip them over and glass the other side. Next, I will lay out my three stringers. My floor will be 3/4" higher than on the plans and go back between the boxes and leave room in front of the transom for a sump. I'm planning on only 4 rod tubes. Sue me . They will be rear facing and I have an idea for rod "tubes" that doesn't involve pvc, will have wide openings yet be very compact further back in the boxes since it is tight in there anyway. Once I get the bulkheads and stringers tabbed in, I'll break the tractor out, lift it and get a weight on the hanging scale. What's the worst that could happen.? if it comes in as light as I think, I'll probably go with the 30 Twatsu or Honda short shaft. Still kicking a tunnel around but luke warm at this point in time. Pics coming.


----------



## bryson

Have you thought about adding a little rake to the floor? Basically if you're keeping the front 3/4" high, setting the aft only 1/4" or so? I've noticed that my skiff sits very level when on the water and a little bit of a slope would help it drain at rest.


----------



## Sublime

bryson said:


> Have you thought about adding a little rake to the floor? Basically if you're keeping the front 3/4" high, setting the aft only 1/4" or so? I've noticed that my skiff sits very level when on the water and a little bit of a slope would help it drain at rest.



It will drop 1 inch from the front bulkhead to the front of the boxes. The plans show a 3/4 inch drop. I think that will be okay.


----------



## Sublime

Got my stringers pretty much like they need to be. Why three? I dunno. They are light and will give me that much more piece of mind. May start gluing them in Saturday or Sunday depending on if I get drug to a horse auction. Other than that bit of news, I’m SERIOUSLY considering building my own epoxy gas tank that will be form fitting but removable in the future. It will go between stations 8 & 9. @bryson was kind enough to calculate capacity for me. Leaving 5 inches between the top of the tank and the bulkhead , it’s coming out around 22 gallons.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Looking good brother...even better with a tunnel! Haha.

do it!


----------



## Tigweld

Looks good, how tall are the outer stringers?


----------



## Chris Morejohn

Sublime said:


> Got my stringers pretty much like they need to be. Why three? I dunno. They are light and will give me that much more piece of mind. May start gluing them in Saturday or Sunday depending on if I get drug to a horse auction. Other than that bit of news, I’m SERIOUSLY considering building my own epoxy gas tank that will be form fitting but removable in the future. It will go between stations 8 & 9. @bryson was kind enough to calculate capacity for me. Leaving 5 inches between the top of the tank and the bulkhead , it’s coming out around 22 gallons.
> View attachment 163878


Texas limoskiff !


----------



## Sublime

Tigweld said:


> Looks good, how tall are the outer stringers?


The outside stringers are 12" on center from the middle stringer. At the front bulkhead the outside stringers are around 3" and at the rear bulkhead they are 3-3/4" . Weird sounding I know but it is due to the curvature of the hull at the front bulkhead. The center stringer is around 4" at the front bulkhead and 3-3/4" at the back bulkhead. My floor should slope roughly 1" from front to back.


----------



## KurtActual

Man, looks awesome Sublime. Did you explain how you settled on 4/7/7? Really most interested in hearing your thoughts on the 4' rear deck.


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> Man, looks awesome Sublime. Did you explain how you settled on 4/7/7? Really most interested in hearing your thoughts on the 4' rear deck.


It was a combination of things. First off, I went with the stern box layout because that was what I was used to on the skiff I ran for nine years. I just find it way more comfortable to run a tiller when you can sit at an angle. @Chasintail22 was kind enough to give me the measurements on the stern boxes of his Waterman 16. Those boxes were 36" from the transom to the front of the box. Then @bryson had gotten measurements off the Lithium skiff he saw in person. Those boxes were 52" from the transom to the front of the box. I found some pictures of a guy running the Lithium with a Tohatsu 50 with the nice multi function tiller arm and no extension. That motor was mounted directly to the transom but I have a Bob's jack plate coming in for my build so my motor will be 6" further back. Given that, I backed off some on the 52" boxes of the Lithium and ended up at 48". I don't mind running a tiller extension , but want to keep it as short as possible. As far as the floor, I am 6'-5" so I wanted to be able to stretch out and sleep if I ever do an overnighter in the skiff. That left a 7' front deck. That will be nice for storage underneath. The only drawback is it will be a little harder to strip line into the cockpit which can be remedied by using a stripping bucket. Clear as mud right?


----------



## KurtActual

Actually, I follow 100% and really appreciate the explanation. Someday I'll build my own, and these things are really valuable!


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> Actually, I follow 100% and really appreciate the explanation. Someday I'll build my own, and these things are really valuable!


Come see it anytime if you find yourself in these parts.


----------



## KurtActual

Sublime said:


> Come see it anytime if you find yourself in these parts.


If I recall correctly, you're somewhere between me (Hockley) and Freeport, correct?
I'll have to PM you for your number. Maybe the next time I head to Galveston to take my boy fishing we can stop on the way home.


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> If I recall correctly, you're somewhere between me (Hockley) and Freeport, correct?
> I'll have to PM you for your number. Maybe the next time I head to Galveston to take my boy fishing we can stop on the way home.


I'm in Angleton straight down 288.


----------



## Sublime

My jack plate came in today. It’s the Mini Jac for bolt on motors. Posting up the weight of the plate and the pump/hoses. 

The plate itself is 30.5#
The pump, fluid and hoses are 18.5 pounds.

Thw Atlas Microjacker I had on the Spear was 28# so negligible extra weight on the transom. The pump will go in the port box some 4 ft up from the transom so I’m not too worried about the extra weight there.

Cheers


----------



## Pro wader

Man that really looks good. I will start working 4 -10s at the end of the month with weekends off. 
I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.


----------



## Sublime

Whacked the top of the transom off taking it from 22 ish inches down to 17 ish. Short shaft motor for sure now. Got the inside of the transom glassed in, box sides glued down and the rear of the boxes tabbed to the transom. All wet on wet layup, so I feel good about that. She feels solid as heck. Those of you that I've been messaging on IG or texting know that the transom area was a major worry of mine because, well because I'm a worrier. The floor will continue between the boxes and stop about 8 inches from the transom and drop down for a sump area. I plan to put my table back on the casters, roll it outside and weight what I've got so far. Next will be cross members between the stringers and in the stern section between the boxes. I already have enough glassed drops to make that happen fast. Then it will be time for a floor. All bulkheads and box sides are still proud at this point. I'll trim them down later.

I mark my glass cuts with a sharpee. Looks ugly when you glass it. Forgive.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Looking good! I guess you decided no tunnel?


----------



## Sublime

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Looking good! I guess you decided no tunnel?



No tunnel , but still interested in the smackattackintake


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> No tunnel , but still interested in the smackattackintake


They are laser engraving logos on the next ten right now. Say when!


----------



## Gatorbig

Nice.


----------



## Sublime

Weighed it today. Very happy with where I’m at now @ 234 pounds. Maybe I can come in around 425 pounds for the finished hull with no jack plate or rigging etc.


----------



## Gatorbig

Looking good!


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Very nice!


----------



## Open Fly -The Later Years

Sublime, 
Really looking good. I am following the build. A question re Glades X skiff, were you running a short shaft
there ? I am trying to decide about short vs long shaft on a Laguna Madre skiff build. Any input ????
thanks
David


----------



## Open Fly -The Later Years

Are you building with vinyl ester or epoxy ?
thanks
David


----------



## Sublime

Open Fly -The Later Years said:


> Sublime,
> Really looking good. I am following the build. A question re Glades X skiff, were you running a short shaft
> there ? I am trying to decide about short vs long shaft on a Laguna Madre skiff build. Any input ????
> thanks
> David



Yes, I was running a short shaft etec 30.. As I get older (57), taller platforms bring visions of compound fractures so I will make this platform around 24" high like on the Spear.


----------



## Sublime

Open Fly -The Later Years said:


> Are you building with vinyl ester or epoxy ?
> thanks
> David



Epoxy from US Composites


----------



## texasag07

Sublime said:


> Yes, I was running a short shaft etec 30.. As I get older (57), taller platforms bring visions of compound fractures so I will make this platform around 24" high like on the Spear.


You are also one of those dang tall guys so it makes seeing with the short platform much easier! I agree though I feel that platform on your spear was about perfect.


----------



## Open Fly -The Later Years

What engine do you plan to run of the new skiff ?


----------



## Sublime

Open Fly -The Later Years said:


> What engine do you plan to run of the new skiff ?


Tohatsu 60 short shaft. For a few reasons. The gf just bought a river house. Decent fishing where I like to fish will be a 10-15 mile run one way. The river is protected and you can run as fast as you want.


----------



## DuckNut

Sublime said:


> Tohatsu 60 short shaft. For a few reasons. The gf just bought a river house. Decent fishing where I like to fish will be a 10-15 mile run one way. The river is protected and you can run as fast as you want.


When you gonna put some lipstick on that girls bottom side?


----------



## Sublime

DuckNut said:


> When you gonna put some lipstick on that girls bottom side?


We have a symbiotic relationship. She keeps two horses and two gooseneck trailers at my place, so maybe if she puts in a boat lift, my skiff can live at her place some.


----------



## DuckNut

Sublime said:


> We have a symbiotic relationship. She keeps two horses and two gooseneck trailers at my place, so maybe if she puts in a boat lift, my skiff can live at her place some.


Never mind all that personal sentimental crap - when you going to paint her up?


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Sublime said:


> Tohatsu 60 short shaft. For a few reasons. The gf just bought a river house. Decent fishing where I like to fish will be a 10-15 mile run one way. The river is protected and you can run as fast as you want.


San Bernard?


----------



## Sublime

Tx_Whipray said:


> San Bernard?



Yes, about a mile down the river from FM 521. Further up river than I would like, but she wrote the check lol. Will take about 45 minutes to run to Cow Trap from there.


----------



## Tx_Whipray

ouch. yea, that's a run. At least it's mostly protected.


----------



## Sublime

Alrighty then. I got all the cross members cut out and glassed in. Man what a back breaker with 42 corners to tab in and 21 tabs to the floor. I put two cross members between the boxes to support the floor, with the last one being 8 inches from the transom. That will give me a nice sump area around 4.5 inches deep which equates to about 3.5 gallons. I hope to start glassing a hunk of foam that will be the floor this weekend. That and repair a few blisters on the lower and upper chines that I've been putting off. All this in hopes of keeping @DuckNut off my A double SS.

On a side note, I am still waffling back and forth between tiller and side console I know, I know, I know. With this river house and frequent 30 mile round trips in the picture, it has me dreaming of a steering wheel. You say, but Stuart what about the boxes you built specifically for a tiller? Well, I could either have the removable cap portion there like some of the old Whiprays or just span that space with the cap. I don't really want to add a piece between the two box sides because that will get into all kinds of drain considerations.


----------



## DuckNut

Sublime said:


> Alrighty then. I got all the cross members cut out and glassed in. Man what a back breaker with 42 corners to tab in and 21 tabs to the floor. I put two cross members between the boxes to support the floor, with the last one being 8 inches from the transom. That will give me a nice sump area around 4.5 inches deep which equates to about 3.5 gallons. I hope to start glassing a hunk of foam that will be the floor this weekend. That and repair a few blisters on the lower and upper chines that I've been putting off. All this in hopes of keeping @DuckNut off my A double SS.
> 
> On a side note, I am still waffling back and forth between tiller and side console I know, I know, I know. With this river house and frequent 30 mile round trips in the picture, it has me dreaming of a steering wheel. You say, but Stuart what about the boxes you built specifically for a tiller? Well, I could either have the removable cap portion there like some of the old Whiprays or just span that space with the cap. I don't really want to add a piece between the two box sides because that will get into all kinds of drain considerations.
> View attachment 170467


Knocking it out of the park.

If you go with the wheel trim the boxes down a touch and put on a hatch cover. You could go with 3 or one big one.

You're doing a great job.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Bad ass!


----------



## Wood

Late to your party as well @Sublime , but your build looks awesome as well! 30 miles round trip with a tiller sounds rough, could always leave an open bulkhead and throw a soft cooler in there.


----------



## texasag07

Sublime please call me so we can speak of these changes.

Love your sweet man child.


----------



## sjrobin

Wood said:


> Late to your party as well @Sublime , but your build looks awesome as well! 30 miles round trip with a tiller sounds rough, could always leave an open bulkhead and throw a soft cooler in there.


With a jack plate and trim all of the prop torque can be eliminated. Also stand up steering will help avoid floating logs, stakes, crab traps, etc. Difficult to operate a side console standing and hard on the back.


----------



## Sublime

sjrobin said:


> With a jack plate and trim all of the prop torque can be eliminated. Also stand up steering will help avoid floating logs, stakes, crab traps, etc. Difficult to operate a side console standing and hard on the back.



Agree. I ran a 50 tiller for 9 years and had it set up where I could let go of the tiller and it would track straight. Legal blurb. Not recommended. lol

I still have a couple of weeks to decide. @sjrobin I do like your setup. I've seen it in action 😉 . I still have all the dimensions you sent me.


----------



## Sublime

Got one side of the floor glassed yesterday. Highs are in the mid 70s. I should be able to flip it tomorrow and knock out the other side. I'll trim it to fit after the other side is glassed. What looks like a few blisters in the pictures aren't. Things went very well. Happy with the results. I so want to get this thing set in place and bonded this weekend. That will be a huge morale booster.

Another option on the layout / cap is to go with the original stern box and cap layout. Then have a casting platform built that will fit perfectly between the boxes and the same height as the boxes. That way I could, if I want to, run a tiller standing up like @sjrobin does. And the cool thing about that is I could put the casting platform where it needs to be (36" up from the transom) and still be able to sit and run with my body at an angle. Clear as mud right? Then if I just feel like I have to use a casting platform up front, move it up there. Half the fun of these builds is planning all this stuff.


----------



## Finn Maccumhail

texasag07 said:


> Sublime please call me so we can speak of these changes.
> 
> Love your sweet man child.


----------



## Pro wader

Tiller with a stand up grab bar. Most of the time I sit on the poling platform and steer the tiller with my knee


----------



## Sublime

...


----------



## Sublime

Well I got the floor glassed all glassed up. I did three layers of 10oz cloth on both sides (and resin rich on the outside layer at that). Trimmed weight of the floor is 41 pounds. So 234 pounds for the hull so far and 41 pounds for the floor brings me to 275 pounds. Cap should be 75-100 pounds? With misc rod holders, more goop etc, I should end up at around 400 pounds. Not bad for an 18.25 foot skiff with an overbuilt transom. I haven't tried placing the floor in to see how it fits. Hopefully it needs minimal trimming.


----------



## Sublime

After lifting it in and out a dozen or so times to trim here and there the floor is 95% fitted. I’m ecstatic on how it’s turning out. Starting to look like a proper skiff.


----------



## JC Designs

Looking grrrreat!🔥🔥🔥


----------



## bryson

I don't know how to describe these milestones other than "visual steps" -- they aren't any bigger than other steps, but they just make the boat *look* way more finished... these types of steps are so exciting.

Looking great man, you have every reason to be ecstatic.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

That’s a thing of beauty


----------



## DuckNut

Sit down with a nice tumbler filled with bourbon and two ice cubes and drink until your smile hits both ears.


----------



## Sublime

Okay MS folks. Do you think I can support this tank on the end tabs only? I’d rather have it off the sole so it doesn’t stay wet. It is 24” long , 10” wide at the front, 22” wide at the back and 10” tall. It is made of 1/8” aluminum and holds 17 gallons so that’s 107 pounds potentially. It has a baffle welded in the middle running side to side.


----------



## Tommy1

Put some neoprene strips under it to sit on


----------



## bryson

What tab(s) are on the other side? The same? I would want to have it contact the hull along the sides if possible, even if it's just in a few places.


----------



## Sublime

bryson said:


> What tab(s) are on the other side? The same? I would want to have it contact the hull along the sides if possible, even if it's just in a few places.



Just tabs on the "front" and "back" I could make some little pucks out of coosa and put neoprene on top of those probably.


----------



## Mike Haydon

If it was a car I would say cool but the pounding of riding through chop may weaken and break those tabs along the way. Maybe put a small piece under the center kind of like a stringer. Then the water will always be alowed to drain around it.


----------



## RJTaylor

Skip the neoprene, and use 4200 to glue your strips to the bottom of the tank.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

My TNT is 17-18 gallons and sits on two tabs in the front and two on top rear are thru bolted through the bulkhead with 1/4” rubber pads between. 21 years old like this no issues.


----------



## RJTaylor

Smackdaddy53 said:


> My TNT is 17-18 gallons and sits on two tabs in the front and two on top rear are thru bolted through the bulkhead with 1/4” rubber pads between. 21 years old like this no issues.


Probably bailing belt, or something similar. That's what we used on my buddy's T when replacing the tank. Neoprene would be no bueno, since it will hold water.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

RJTaylor said:


> Probably bailing belt, or something similar. That's what we used on my buddy's T when replacing the tank. Neoprene would be no bueno, since it will hold water.


That’s what it looks like. It has nylon webbing impregnated in it.


----------



## sjrobin

The best fuel tank mount in my experience will have minimum flat surface contact of the tank and hull to prevent abrasion and accumulation of corrosive salt... four tabs on this 23 gal tank. Also a fuel cell mounted in the tip of the bow will be exposed to maximum forces on any mounting method if the boat is used in choppy water


----------



## Sublime

Very clean install @sjrobin. The tank won't be in the very tip of the bow. It will be about 4 1/2 feet from the tip.


----------



## Tommy1

3/8" PSA backed neoprene foam strips stuck to an epoxy coated tank will outlast the boat. No abrasion when adhered to tank. No water on tank. The strips are water resistant. They also support the floor of the tank. This is best practices for marine industry aluminum fuel tanks.
Anything not adhered to the tank will cause abrasion. 
Carbon content of rubber will corrode aluminum especially when salt water is present.
I wasn't talking about wetsuit neoprene and should have specified.
Also if you are bolting it to the hull through the tabs you should use plastic sleeve to keep stainless from touching aluminum.


----------



## Sublime

On March 2 , I ordered a trailer from McClain Trailers in Houston (about a 50 minute drive for me) They told me 9-12 weeks and just like clockwork, it was ready on May 14th. This is the same trailer as Sabine Skiffs uses and Brian helped me with some of the details. . McClain told me it would have four bunks and I was thinking okay, I'm used to two bunks, but four will work. Well when I picked it up, it had two massive 4 x 8 outer bunks. and 2 x 4 inner bunks. I knew all of that would have to go. Saturday, I stripped it all down and installed some awesome brackets and 2 x 6 bunks. I had also asked McClain how much more I could adjust the torsion arms. They came set at 0 degrees and they said I could go up to 12.5 degrees. That was actually pretty easy to do even though I had to adjust the fenders some. Happy with how it turned out. I have a friend's old Ramlin Whipray trailer here. With both trailers level, the Ramlin bunks are 17" off the ground, the McClain bunks are 18". So, I'm pretty dang close to where the Ramlin is and my axle is a tad forward of the Ramlin's, so that will help. I need to add and 18" roller and fab up some side bunks similar to what you see on a Ameratrail. Will have to see if I need to add anything else to keep the bow from hitting anywhere, but that will be later. Anthony at McClain was awesome to deal with. He answered all emails very quickly and always returned my calls. Okay, everyone always wants to know prices. I paid $3,314.50 out the door , TT&L. I even asked if I could return the bunks for a spare that I somehow forgot to include on my order and they said yes. I want to get the skiff moved over to the trailer in the next couple of days so I can start my cap.


----------



## texasag07

Could McClain not set the trailer up like you wanted? Seems like a pain to have to redo bunks and change axle torsion on a factory brand new trailer?

Did they set it up right so you can tow it with the Prius?

It does look good now that it’s done. Glad your moving forward with everything!


----------



## RJTaylor

McClain doesn't habla dry launch for some reason.


----------



## Sublime

texasag07 said:


> Could McClain not set the trailer up like you wanted? Seems like a pain to have to redo bunks and change axle torsion on a factory brand new trailer?
> 
> Did they set it up right so you can tow it with the Prius?
> 
> It does look good now that it’s done. Glad your moving forward with everything!



They set the axle based on me telling them zero degrees. That whole process took maybe 45 minutes to do , including resetting the fenders. As far as the bunks, maybe. I'm just glad they will take them back. The Prius is dedicated to pull the gooseneck.


----------



## Sublime

RJTaylor said:


> McClain doesn't habla dry launch for some reason.



It's true. Neither does Coastline. My buddy gave Coastline two attempts to build a trailer for his HB. They failed on both trailers even though he took them the old Ramlin to emulate. He got his money back and went to 5th lake trailers in Edna. Texas trailer builders are focused on bay boats. I knew from looking at trailers under the Sabine skiffs that McClain could come close and I could get it over the finish line.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

RJTaylor said:


> McClain doesn't habla dry launch for some reason.


No habla?


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Sublime said:


> It's true. Neither does Coastline. My buddy gave Coastline two attempts to build a trailer for his HB. They failed on both trailers even though he took them the old Ramlin to emulate. He got his money back and went to 5th lake trailers in Edna. Texas trailer builders are focused on bay boats. I knew from looking at trailers under the Sabine skiffs that McClain could come close and I could get it over the finish line.


I gave up on coastline getting mine right. Well built trailers, but they don't really "get" the skiff market.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Tx_Whipray said:


> I gave up on coastline getting mine right. Well built trailers, but they don't really "get" the skiff market.


They build meat hauler trailers.


----------



## Sublime

Got her on the trailer. I could have gone the next size narrower frame , but it looks good and now I know I have plenty of room if I want to drop the bunks even more. Yes, lots of faring left. And yes, that is a dirt dobber nest, not fairing on the bow.


----------



## Open Fly -The Later Years

Lookin very good there Sublime !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Sublime

Template for the cap mostly done. There will be a small deck in the back with the built in splash well tray that drains through the transom. The space between the boxes is big enough for a casting platform. I might have one made that fits there perfectly and it will act as a deck if I ever wanted to stand and run from there. Then it can double as a front casting platform also. At this point , I’m going to do my cap kind of like Harry Spear does on his YouTube channel. No mold. I’m conjuring up a way to do the hatch gutters and will be doing a test of that soon.


----------



## Sublime

I had been toying for a long time about not doing a deck mold, so head first I dive. I have watched Harry Spear's videos showing how he builds a cap and will be doing something similar. First, I built a strong back of sorts. All I had to buy were the 1 x 4 s, everything else was repurposed stuff. I cut foam out in big enough chunks as to be able to trim later. Saturday, I started cutting glass and slinging goop at 0900 hrs and got all three layers of 10z on the bottom of the cap by 2100 hrs. It was absolutely brutal in the garage with temps in the mid 90s most of the day. By far, it was the most grueling day I have spent on the skiff build. Next steps in order:

Brace it with some 1 x 4 s
With the help of a friend, flip it over on the strong back. 
Lay one layer of 10 oz on the top.
Slide it onto the skiff. 
Position
Mark the perimeter, cockpit edge and trim. (the flange on the skiff is nice and true)
Slide it back onto the strong back
Mark my hatches out with the template
Cut the hatches out with a router using the templates


Here is where it gets interesting

Pray
Stack and glue foam (bottom of the cap) around the edges of the hatches where the gutters will be. Probably 5 layers
Use a router and route the shape of the gutters out (using the existing cap template and an inner edge template
Glass the crap out of the tops of the gutters , tying them into the top of the cap with another two layers of 10z
Flip the cap over.
Sand away the foam down to the gutter bottoms
Glass the crap out of the bottom of the gutters. 

I will flip it Wednesday night and hopefully get one layer of 10 oz down Thursday night. Then this weekend I can slide it onto the skiff, position and trim.

Note, the back of the cap will be cut out. I just glassed it to be able to flip the cap.

Wish me luck. I'm really trying to get the skiff done by December. I think it is attainable.


----------



## Bruce J

Good work, Stu, and happy birthday!


----------



## Mike Haydon

Crazy looking strong back for the cap. I plan to do the same with my cap but I'm not getting as involved. Mine is just a rebuild so will be in pieces. Front deck, back deck, gunnels. Love how yours is going! And I am not a betting man but I'd bet you get done by December. Just because of the tiller alone. Looking great boss!


----------



## Sublime

Mike Haydon said:


> Crazy looking strong back for the cap. I plan to do the same with my cap but I'm not getting as involved. Mine is just a rebuild so will be in pieces. Front deck, back deck, gunnels. Love how yours is going! And I am not a betting man but I'd bet you get done by December. Just because of the tiller alone. Looking great boss!


Thanks. I wanted a really flat surface to work with so I put the 1x4s on 12 inch centers. After I bond the cap, I'll lift the skiff off the trailer, flip it over and set it on the strong back to finish fairing. 

I hate that it won't be ready for the fall, but my motor won't be here until November or December. I suppose it all the stars align I could have it fishing by late November / early December. I have one guided trip in November and will hopefully get out with. I've been collecting some big ticket items over the months. I have my jack plate, trolling motor for chunking lures on local rivers and creeks. Big ticket items left are poling platform and grab bar and a nice gps.


----------



## m32825

Just finished reading this thread again from the beginning. Nice work and thanks for sharing!


----------



## Sublime

m32825 said:


> Just finished reading this thread again from the beginning. Nice work and thanks for sharing!



Ha! I apologize. I have been all over the place on motors, consoles, layouts and have made, what has turned out to be, wildly unrealistic time frames.


----------



## m32825

Sublime said:


> Ha! I apologize. I have been all over the place on motors, consoles, layouts and have made, what has turned out to be, wildly unrealistic time frames.


No need to apologize, that's part of the process and a preview of coming attractions for anyone considering a similar build. I'm trying to resist, and this thread isn't helping! 🙂


----------



## omegadef

Sublime said:


> Ha! I apologize. I have been all over the place on motors, consoles, layouts and have made, what has turned out to be, wildly unrealistic time frames.


If it's anything like mine, you've probably also amassed a few different iterations of parts that you bought and then decided not to use for various reasons.


----------



## JC Designs

m32825 said:


> No need to apologize, that's part of the process and a preview of coming attractions for anyone considering a similar build. I'm trying to resist, and this thread isn't helping! 🙂


DO IT!!!🇺🇸🤙🏻😉


----------



## Rick hambric

Sublime said:


> Ha! I apologize. I have been all over the place on motors, consoles, layouts and have made, what has turned out to be, wildly unrealistic time frames.


One thing I’ve learned making my plug and molds is if you think you can do it in one week part time, it will take 3 weeks. You get more done on a Saturday than you do all week. I’m working on my plug from 0530-730 then from 5:30-830 during the week then all day Sunday. That’s when I really started seeing progress.


----------



## Sublime

Rick hambric said:


> One thing I’ve learned making my plug and molds is if you think you can do it in one week part time, it will take 3 weeks. You get more done on a Saturday than you do all week. I’m working on my plug from 0530-730 then from 5:30-830 during the week then all day Sunday. That’s when I really started seeing progress.


So true. I never kidded myself about how many hours were involved. What I did _not _account for was all of the other projects around the house would pop up. A home remodel, fence building, the gf buying a weekend house , putting the carport up on and on an on. There have been 2-3 weeks go by in the past where I literally did not touch the skiff.


----------



## trekker

Rick hambric said:


> One thing I’ve learned making my plug and molds is if you think you can do it in one week part time, it will take 3 weeks. You get more done on a Saturday than you do all week. I’m working on my plug from 0530-730 then from 5:30-830 during the week then all day Sunday. That’s when I really started seeing progress.


Did you build a prototype or just go straight to making a plug/mold ?


----------



## kwood

wow looks great


----------



## Rick hambric

trekker said:


> Did you build a prototype or just go straight to making a plug/mold ?


one scale model and one rough proto, i am hoping to take to market around december. there will be a thread in the coming month.


----------



## trekker

Rick hambric said:


> one scale model and one rough proto, i am hoping to take to market around december. there will be a thread in the coming month.


Right on.


----------



## Sublime

Time for an update. The cap is trimmed to its final shape. I took a router with a trim flush bit and went around the outside perimeter of the hull. It turned out great. I have my hatch openings marked. Today, I will cut those out, then flip the cap back over upside down on the table. I am going to core my gutter channels with foam like @Sethsawyer did on his build. Next, I have a lot of 4" tape I will use to make a flat strip to bond to the edges of the cap after it is bonded to the hull . When that is all said and done , I will lay my final two layers on the top of the cap to tie the gutters and the edge of the skiff in. I think that will go fairly smooth. What else can I tell you? Well, I have another tank coming this weekend. Decided to go with 12 gallons and a simple box shape to free up more space in the front compartment. Eventually, I need to decide on paint. I've been communicating with @DuckNut on that one. I'm all over the board.

BLP Mothane - an industrial type paint. should be more scratch resistant
Graphite / Epoxy - been around forever. hard to find a lot of info on different applications
Gator Glide - I actually like the orange peel texture . My concern is people say it eventually chips off. But it would be easy to repair. Limited colors
Fasco Steelfex - similar to graphite additives, hard to find a lot of info about it on fiberglass boats
Alexseal - have seen great results even rolling this on. But everyone says it scratches easily

End the end, I want something that looks decent. I prefer durability over showroom looks. If I did this over again, I would have use poly resin so I could use gelcoat.


















Forgot to add, front and rear compartments painted with Total Boat Total Bilge and rod tubes bonded in. I did not fair the compartments. Sue me. Also in the oics, you can see where I glassed in the upper sides of the cockpit. I filled the voids with 2 pound foam. Should make for a liner type look and no water to accumulation in the upper spray rails on the inside.


----------



## bob_esper

Looking great! Gonna be a roomy boat with that layout .


----------



## Sublime

thanks @bob_esper . Your build is looking great. I am glad I stuck with my original vision of a wide open tiller layout.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Looking damn good brother!!!


----------



## hillcharl

Boat looks great!


----------



## bryson

Looking really good! I drug my boat over a *lot* of tough, live oysters the other day. I'll try to remember to take a look at the bottom to see how the Alexseal held up. I think the Awlcraft (acrylic) is the one that scratches easily, though, the Alexseal (polyurethane) should be pretty dang durable.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

bryson said:


> Looking really good! I drug my boat over a *lot* of tough, live oysters the other day. I'll try to remember to take a look at the bottom to see how the Alexseal held up. I think the Awlcraft (acrylic) is the one that scratches easily, though, the Alexseal (polyurethane) should be pretty dang durable.


Nothing will stand up to oyster shells unless it’s a harder coating than the shells. Ceramic but I don’t think there is a cost effective option for a ceramic coating that is thick enough to be impervious to oyster rash.


----------



## Sublime

bryson said:


> Looking really good! I drug my boat over a *lot* of tough, live oysters the other day. I'll try to remember to take a look at the bottom to see how the Alexseal held up. I think the Awlcraft (acrylic) is the one that scratches easily, though, the Alexseal (polyurethane) should be pretty dang durable.


You've got more willpower than I do. I would have been underneath the boat at the ramp when I took it out of the water lol


----------



## bryson

Oh, I know it will be chewed up, that's part of the game when you fish around here. Just curious to see how it looks compared to gelcoat. You should see the bottom of my old Hewes


----------



## CKEAT

One trip and the rash begins 🤣

it’s part of it, I plan to just re gel coat bottom after 5-6 years.


----------



## Sublime

I totally get it. The top and sides of my old BT were perfect , the bottom, not so much. Just trying to find a paint / coating that is as durable as can be expected in the areas I fish.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

CKEAT said:


> One trip and the rash begins 🤣
> 
> it’s part of it, I plan to just re gel coat bottom after 5-6 years.


Total neglect or using a fishing tool for what it was meant for? 
If I see a pod of reds on the other side of an oyster bar and I can’t cast to them I’m going over it poling or on plane!


----------



## CKEAT

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Total neglect or using a fishing tool for what it was meant for?
> If I see a pod of reds on the other side of an oyster bar and I can’t cast to them I’m going over it poling or on plane!


Yep, that’s it. Use a tool but respect the work it took to buy the tool and take care of it.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

CKEAT said:


> Yep, that’s it. Use a tool but respect the work it took to buy the tool and take care of it.


Absolutely


----------



## CKEAT

Sublime said:


> I totally get it. The top and sides of my old BT were perfect , the bottom, not so much. Just trying to find a paint / coating that is as durable as can be expected in the areas I fish.


I wish there was a cost efficient coating to put on for oysters, that would sell great in Texas


----------



## bryson

CKEAT said:


> I wish there was a cost efficient coating to put on for oysters, that would sell great in Texas


Hah, it's called aluminum! 

Now to figure out a way to make it sacrificial/replaceable, that's the ticket...


----------



## Smackdaddy53

bryson said:


> Hah, it's called aluminum!
> 
> Now to figure out a way to make it sacrificial/replaceable, that's the ticket...


Oysters will peel aluminum like a banana too.


----------



## Sublime

Maybe I'll grind up some oyster shell and mix that in the paint.


----------



## Yako

Just went through your entires build, it looks great. I’m playing with the idea of the same build, or maybe buying the diy hull from simple skiffs. I’m also in Texas so I may have to come by and see your build if I decide to make a move and do it!


----------



## Sublime

Yesterday was a BIG day. @C Brueckner , @sjrobin and his buddy Mike came over to help me bond the cap on. Several icing bags of epoxy and cabosil were mixed up and applied. We got good ooze everywhere. I’ll throw my big casters on the table I built the cap on. That way I can roll it under under the carport and let the dust fly while I fair it. She feels rock solid and only a minor little wave to the starboard gunnel. I’m pumped. After we finished , I fed them some brisket.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Nice work!


----------



## omegadef

Nicely done. 

I'm really seeing where this cap building method would speed things up tremendously.


----------



## Sublime

omegadef said:


> Nicely done.
> 
> I'm really seeing where this cap building method would speed things up tremendously.


Thanks. I think it is six of one and one half dozen of the other. You could also do a hybrid and make the deck in a mold without hatches but you would gain a flange around the perimeter which I don't have and will have to make off to the side. Then you could cut out hatches and do gutters out of foam core. If I did it this way, I would still only do one layer of glass on the top of the cap so you could tie in the gutters with two more layers of glass and not have any additional fairing.

The pros of how I did it is I had zero worries about it fitting my hull since I did final fitment after I laid it up. Also I had zero worries of it releasing from the mold or finding out I had blisters after it released from the mold. Also with the double core on the edges I'm gaining about an inch of freeboard once you glue and glass it all.


----------



## bob_esper

Looking great, Got an estimate on cost for the hull so far? Not counting the plans. I wanna build one of these pretty bad haha.


----------



## sjrobin

Sublime said:


> Yesterday was a BIG day. @C Brueckner , @sjrobin and his buddy Mike came over to help me bond the cap on. Several icing bags of epoxy and cabosil were mixed up and applied. We got good ooze everywhere. I’ll throw my big casters on the table I built the cap on. That way I can roll it under under the carport and let the dust fly while I fair it. She feels rock solid and only a minor little wave to the starboard gunnel. I’m pumped. After we finished , I fed them some brisket.
> 
> View attachment 188557
> 
> 
> View attachment 188556
> 
> 
> View attachment 188558
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 188559


Great to be able to help with one of the milestones in skiff building. Much admiration for diy builders....and darn fine brisket for lunch.


----------



## Sublime

bob_esper said:


> Looking great, Got an estimate on cost for the hull so far? Not counting the plans. I wanna build one of these pretty bad haha.



I'm trying to keep the entire build under $22k. That is with a new Tohatsu 60 tiller , jack plate, new trailer, poling platform etc. I would guess you could shave a grand off that by using poly resin. I'm going to throw a guess out there that you could build a 16 out of poly , less expensive trailer, no jack plate, new 30 horse and platform for $12k ish if you shopped around for deals.


----------



## bob_esper

Sublime said:


> I'm trying to keep the entire build under $22k. That is with a new Tohatsu 60 tiller , jack plate, new trailer, poling platform etc. I would guess you could shave a grand off that by using poly resin. I'm going to throw a guess out there that you could build a 16 out of poly , less expensive trailer, no jack plate, new 30 horse and platform for $12k ish if you shopped around for deals.



How about just the hull itself? No trailer or anything else.


----------



## Sublime

bob_esper said:


> How about just the hull itself? No trailer or anything else.



I ended up using 12 sheets of core. I've used 25 gallons of resin to this point. The bottom took 50 meters of 39" wide basalt. I bought 75 yards x 38" wide 10 oz for the inside and cap. It may not be enough. It will be close. Throw in your fillers , fairing compound, paint, rub rail etc and I'm going to say minimum of $4,500


----------



## bob_esper

That's not bad at all. . I need to pull the trigger on some plans. lol.


----------



## omegadef

Sublime said:


> Thanks. I think it is six of one and one half dozen of the other. You could also do a hybrid and make the deck in a mold without hatches but you would gain a flange around the perimeter which I don't have and will have to make off to the side. Then you could cut out hatches and do gutters out of foam core. If I did it this way, I would still only do one layer of glass on the top of the cap so you could tie in the gutters with two more layers of glass and not have any additional fairing.
> 
> The pros of how I did it is I had zero worries about it fitting my hull since I did final fitment after I laid it up. Also I had zero worries of it releasing from the mold or finding out I had blisters after it released from the mold. Also with the double core on the edges I'm gaining about an inch of freeboard once you glue and glass it all.


Can you not just run a router roundover bit around the edge and glass directly to the side of the core to serve as your flange?
Fairing the flange was super easy for me, because the rubrail was going to cover it anyway, and I had had enough.


----------



## Sublime

omegadef said:


> Can you not just run a router roundover bit around the edge and glass directly to the side of the core to serve as your flange?
> Fairing the flange was super easy for me, because the rubrail was going to cover it anyway, and I had had enough.


I have tossed this around. I need to look at my rub rail options. That would save some work for sure ! I could even gouge the foam out where the rub rail screws would be and fill them with thickened epoxy.


----------



## fishnpreacher

I don't know a whole lot about boats, but I do know a good looking brisket when I see one.
Fine looking piece of meat there!!

And the boat don't look too bad either!


----------



## omegadef

Sublime said:


> I have tossed this around. I need to look at my rub rail options. That would save some work for sure ! I could even gouge the foam out where the rub rail screws would be and fill them with thickened epoxy.


Not worth the effort to fill IMO. 
I went with tessilmare radial rubrail. Easy install, just make sure you predrill and the screws will grip fine in the glass. If you have a screw strip, you just put two more on either side. 

I would say I had around 0.125" of glass on the flange. 3 layers of 1708 tape and you're done. Fairing with the flat part of the deck is the issue, but as long as you keep your overlap consistent around the hull, it wont be bad at all. You will just have a slight lip. 
If I was doing the same thing with poly resin, I'd just use matt with one layer of cloth in there somewhere. Not trying to get any strength out of it, just need impact resistance and screw holding ability.


----------



## KurtActual

How on earth did you have the time and energy to smoke a brisket while working on the boat?

Bravo gents. Looks terrific.


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> How on earth did you have the time and energy to smoke a brisket while working on the boat?
> 
> Bravo gents. Looks terrific.



Thanks. Easy, I put it on the pellet smoker at 2100 hrs the night before. 😉 

BUT. The day before was a mad rush to get a couple of things done that could only be done before the cap went on.


----------



## KurtActual

Sublime said:


> Thanks. Easy, I put it on the pellet smoker at 2100 hrs the night before. 😉
> 
> BUT. The day before was a mad rush to get a couple of things done that could only be done before the cap went on.


Man, I end up baby sitting my water tray too much to be able to do one overnight. Did you check it every few hours or sleep through it?


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> Man, I end up baby sitting my water tray too much to be able to do one overnight. Did you check it every few hours or sleep through it?


I've never used a water tray. I usually go all night at 200 F . At some point the next day I will usually have to bump it up to 250 F to attain 190 internal temp. I _did_ wake up once and check the pellet level, but a 200 degrees , it doesn't go through them very quickly at all.


----------



## omegadef

Sublime said:


> I've never used a water tray. I usually go all night at 200 F . At some point the next day I will usually have to bump it up to 250 F to attain 190 internal temp. I _did_ wake up once and check the pellet level, but a 200 degrees , it doesn't go through them very quickly at all.


Pellet smoker is the way to go. Never used a water pan. I have transitioned to 270F for the whole cook and don't bother wrapping anymore. Pull at 203 internal. Bluetooth thermometer with alarms set on phone, one probe on grill grates, one probe in meat.


----------



## KurtActual

Guess all pellet smokers arent created equal. My Pit Boss uses a water tray. I have found that it'll boil that water out in 3-4 hours depending on temp.


----------



## Sublime

Just weighed it again with the lids thrown in the floor. 458 pounds. BUT , it needs two more layers of glass on the cap, fairing and paint. I'm aiming for 480 pounds. More than I originally hoped, but considering the things I beefed up like the transom and added flotation foam (probably 25 pounds worth), I'll take it.


----------



## bryson

Sublime said:


> Just weighed it again with the lids thrown in the floor. 458 pounds. BUT , it needs two more layers of glass on the cap, fairing and paint. I'm aiming for 480 pounds. More than I originally hoped, but considering the things I beefed up and added flotation foam (probably 25 pounds worth), I'll take it.


She'll still be super shallow when loaded level. Should ride really well too.

To give you an idea (these are *approximate*, based off a rough CAD model), here are the displacements at total weights, assuming she's floating _completely_ level with the keel.

4" - 900 lbs
5" - 1200 lbs
6" - 1500 lbs

This jives with my personal experience. We were chasing tailing bonefish (I'd guess right around 6") with 3 grown men on board (@ 600# total), but the heaviest guy was able to move around in the cockpit to get us as level as possible. With 2 people we squat a little with the heavier guy on the platform, but float more level with the heavier of the two on the bow.

You have some good shelves and stuff up front, so you may find that the weight distribution of your hull itself is already a little farther forward than mine. Basically what I'm getting at is that I wouldn't sweat the overall hull weight at all. If we ever rub bottom in my skiff, it's nice to be able to walk to the bow and basically float free of whatever we are on (or pole a little from the bow).


----------



## Sublime

Thanks @bryson this is really good info. Fully rigged and full of fuel , I'm guessing she will come in at around 925 pounds. Add 400 pounds of dudes and I should be between 5 and 6 inches. Very few skiffs can do that.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

bryson said:


> To give you an idea (these are *approximate*, based off a rough CAD model), here are the displacements at total weights, assuming she's floating _completely_ level with the keel.
> 
> 4" - 900 lbs
> 5" - 1200 lbs
> 6" - 1500 lbs


Just something for everyone to consider...
Look at these drafts vs weight when adding accessories, outboards, tunnels etc. The draft differences are very marginal on Atlas vs Bob’s, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, tunnel versus no tunnel or whether or not you or your compadre have been eating too good. 300 pounds adds one inch of draft...
Some people trip out over adding ten or twenty pounds.


----------



## flyclimber

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Just something for everyone to consider...
> Look at these drafts vs weight when adding accessories, outboards, tunnels etc. The draft differences are very marginal on Atlas vs Bob’s, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, tunnel versus no tunnel or whether or not you or your compadre have been eating too good. 300 pounds adds one inch of draft...
> Some people trip out over adding ten or twenty pounds.


Two extra batteries will plus a power pole adds up to 300 pretty quick.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

flyclimber said:


> Two extra batteries will plus a power pole adds up to 300 pretty quick.


The hell you need a trolling motor and a power pole on a skiff for? That push pole is dual purpose...🤨


----------



## DuckNut

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Just something for everyone to consider...
> Look at these drafts vs weight when adding accessories, outboards, tunnels etc. The draft differences are very marginal on Atlas vs Bob’s, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, tunnel versus no tunnel or whether or not you or your compadre have been eating too good. 300 pounds adds one inch of draft...
> Some people trip out over adding ten or twenty pounds.


If you pile it all in the back it makes a bigger difference.

Hang fat azzed 4 stroke on a 6" jack plate and you change things drastically.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

DuckNut said:


> If you pile it all in the back it makes a bigger difference.
> 
> Hang fat azzed 4 stroke on a 6" jack plate and you change things drastically.


C’mon maaan!


----------



## Sublime

So I did go ahead and use a router to route out some foam around the entire perimeter where my rub rail will be. Then I filed it in with thickened epoxy. She’s rock solid there now and I’ll have no worries attaching the rub rail. Got the last two layers of glass on the top of the cap. I was running low on 10oz but had basalt left over so the top layer is basalt. Weighed her again with hatch lids and she came in at 478 pounds. She feels rock solid. Flipping it over Sunday to finish fairing the bottom.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

You shouldn’t sweat much Sunday! Looking good brother.


----------



## Sublime

I moved my axle forward a total of 9.5 inches. Mostly this amount because I could move the rear mounting hole up to the front hole and not worry about alignment problems. Of course, that entails moving the fenders as well. Next, I’ll move the lights up behind the fenders. I have my 18” rear roller , just need to have the tabs welded on. I backed it down a local ramp before moving the axle forward and with hubs dry the bunks are in the water. Now it should be that much better. Hopefully moving the axle will help lower the tongue weight once I get everything finished. I’m positive I’ll still end up with 10-15% tongue weight. @C Brueckner was over a while back and we weighed the tongue weight on his beautiful Beryllium rig and it came in at 278 pounds. I think his axle is about where mine was. Of course , while my trailer is empty I had to hoist it in the air and weigh it. Came in at 566 pounds with no spare tire yet. 

Cheers


----------



## KurtActual

I dont know much about trailers, is that a light weight trailer?


----------



## Sublime

KurtActual said:


> I dont know much about trailers, is that a light weight trailer?


No idea. It has 3 x 4 1/2" I beams which is bigger than what you find on some trailers. I would say it is slightly heavier than the Float-On trailer I had under my Spear.


----------



## jpipes

That's a beautiful skiff and all....but that oak tree is unbelievable.


----------



## CKEAT

I have to agree, great skiff, trailer and for sure a bad ass oak!


----------



## Sublime

Thanks guys. Yes, this is the place I grew up so the oak has always been in my world. Like anything, you don't notice the year to year growth, then you step back occasionally and look at it and are amazed at how big it has gotten. I've been worried about it the last couple of years. It goes through periods where it doesn't look 100%. There is a lot of oak blight here in Texas. I am hoping we are isolated enough where it is at that I don't ever have to deal with that.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> Thanks guys. Yes, this is the place I grew up so the oak has always been in my world. Like anything, you don't notice the year to year growth, then you step back occasionally and look at it and are amazed at how big it has gotten. I've been worried about it the last couple of years. It goes through periods where it doesn't look 100%. There is a lot of oak blight here in Texas. I am hoping we are isolated enough where it is at that I don't ever have to deal with that.


Not to derail but here’s a huge oak at my uncle’s place between Victoria and Refugio. I grew up playing on this tree with my cousins and took my son and mother out there for a visit a while back and got some photos.


----------



## Sublime

Got the roller on the back. I’m guessing the bow will want to hit the axle or the cross member in front of it. As soon as I get primer on , I’ll go shove it in the water and see what happens. I was thinking about adding a wide piece of ply between the rails and cover with carpet. It would be just above the axle and not be in play when the skiff is resting on the trailer. It could also serve as a walk board of sorts. Thoughts?


----------



## flyclimber

Sublime said:


> Got the roller on the back. I’m guessing the bow will want to hit the axle or the cross member in front of it. As soon as I get primer on , I’ll go shove it in the water and see what happens. I was thinking about adding a wide piece of ply between the rails and cover with carpet. It would be just above the axle and not be in play when the skiff is resting on the trailer. It could also serve as a walk board of sorts. Thoughts?


Thats an odd looking axle, I haven't seen many that tilt up in the middle. you may need to pad that for loading.


----------



## Copahee Hound

What brand of paint are you using?


----------



## Sublime

Copahee Hound said:


> What brand of paint are you using?


After going back and forth multiple times , I have decided on Alexseal. Primer should be here this week.


----------



## Sublime

So. I decided to add the winglet thingees. Sanded off all the fairing in that area , glassed down the winglets and now I'm fairing them and the transom in. The winglets ended up about 41 inches long. On the leading and trailing ends I took a dremel and routered the foam out and back filled with thickened epoxy with mini fibers mixed in. They are solid. Also sharpened the edges with the same goop and forms made from foam strips. I came back and shaped the leading edge at a 45 degree angle. Also upgraded my compressor a couple of weeks ago and have adequate drying now. If the weather cooperates, I’d like to spray high build this weekend.


----------



## omegadef

Is this piece an extrusion? looks way better and consistent than the way I tried to do it.


----------



## Sublime

omegadef said:


> Is this piece an extrusion? looks way better and consistent than the way I tried to do it.


No sir. I took a piece of 3/4 x 3/3 foam, glued it down, rounded the edges, then glassed them down. The thicken epoxy along the entire length to sharpen the edges is 1/4" tall. I am not planning on sharpening any other edges. I think these will be more than adequate to help in turns and tracking straight. I didn't want them any taller, for drag purposes and they are kind of in harms way.


----------



## bryson

omegadef said:


> Is this piece an extrusion? looks way better and consistent than the way I tried to do it.
> 
> View attachment 202244


I was caught off-guard by this at first too. It looks like an extrusion because that's the end where he carved out all the interior foam with a dremel. So it's just glass wrapped around a shaped piece of foam, but the ends were hollowed out to be filled later with thickened resin.

Hope that helps (and that my explanation was actually correct).


----------



## Sublime

bryson said:


> I was caught off-guard by this at first too. It looks like an extrusion because that's the end where he carved out all the interior foam with a dremel. So it's just glass wrapped around a shaped piece of foam, but the ends were hollowed out to be filled later with thickened resin.
> 
> Hope that helps (and that my explanation was actually correct).


Exactly correct. Before, during and after I glassed them I was trying to devise ways to shape the leading edge so I came up with the thickened epoxy idea. I took an oscillating saw to the blunt leading edge and cut through the thickened epoxy at a 45 degree angle. I filled the trailing edge because there are times when the skiff will be drifting backwards and come into contact with the bottom.


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## omegadef

Ah ok.

FWIW, my boat grips corners at full throttle, and mine are no where near as tall as yours. Very different hulls at the end of the day though.


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## Sublime

Rolled on three coats of high build this weekend. It has motivated me again. Have a few little places I can put a dab of fairing in and lots of pinholes. I want to spray the finish primer. I’m really happy with how the winglets came out. Hopefully she’ll carve the twisty stuff.


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## bryson

Looking so awesome!


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## flyclimber

Looks great! Hopefully I can get high build down on the deck of my boat soon. The never ending amount of sanding is setting in.


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## Sublime

flyclimber said:


> Looks great! Hopefully I can get high build down on the deck of my boat soon. The never ending amount of sanding is setting in.


Thanks. After I get the outside painted, I have to flip it over and fair the cap and floor. At least they are flat surfaces , but the hatch gutters will not be fun. The "I want everything to look perfect" train has left the station. At this point, I just want the boat to look good. Time to get this thing on the water. Well, other than I don't have a motor. It is supposed to be here in June/


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## Smackdaddy53

I want to come visit one day


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## Sublime

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I want to come visit one day


When I get my motor mounted, come on up. And bring a Zephyr Cove low water pickup with you.


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## Smackdaddy53

Sublime said:


> When I get my motor mounted, come on up. And bring a Zephyr Cove low water pickup with you.


On it coach


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## Bruce J

Looking great, Stu!


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## Sublime

Well, I have a couple of layers of topcoat on it. I’m rolling with Alexseal and their rolling additive. I’m convinced this stuff would lay down perfectly in cooler weather. I have orange peal for sure. I sanded last night with 320 grit and will roll the final layer tonight. So there it is . I try to post the good and bad. In the end , it's a homemade skiff. Thanks @JC Designs for answering my questions.

Like I mentioned in another post, the color is a 50/50 mix of Alexseal Jet Black and Snow White. I like how it turned out. Hope to flip it back onto the trailer this weekend. I've missed seeing the other side.


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## JC Designs

Looking good buddy!🤙🏻


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## Mike Haydon

Get yourself some high density foam rollers for your last coat. It will help with the orange peel.


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## jay.bush1434

Looking really good man. If you want some help flipping her, holler at me. I'm actually off work this weekend. Besides, its only fitting since we both helped Corey flip his.


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## bryson

Looks great! I wouldn't sweat the finish. They say you can wet sand and buff, but if it were me I think I'd just leave it as-is. It doesn't appear that bad, plus I only really ever see the side of my boat when I'm washing it. Effort would probably be better spent on the non-skid and stuff.

Really like how the color turned out too.


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## thebandit

Love the color. Cool build.


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## GoGataGo52__20

Shoot man, that skiff and paint looks great to me. I couldn’t do half as well with double the time. Nice work


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## MikeChamp12

Hell yeah.


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## Copahee Hound

I would pay double for the rolling additive after the results i got! Lookin good! Flip it and get out there


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## Smackdaddy53

Remember Stuart...dimples on a golf ball


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## JC Designs

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Remember Stuart...dimples on a golf ball


Wish I could love this one twice!!! Also wish more folks appreciated a dimpled bottom! Wait, that didn’t come out right!🤣🤣🤣


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## LunarFishing

The skiff looks great Sublime, almost to the finish line. 

I have been looking into a Beryllium build and was wondering how many sheets of Carbon core do you estimate you will use in total? It looks like you possibly used the Carbon Core PE foam? They currently only have the Carbon Core PVC foam in stock, so I have been looking at that to try to determine if it has the right strength qualities, I was wondering if you think 12 sheets would complete a full Beryllium build with a center console.


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## Sublime

LunarFishing said:


> The skiff looks great Sublime, almost to the finish line.
> 
> I have been looking into a Beryllium build and was wondering how many sheets of Carbon core do you estimate you will use in total? It looks like you possibly used the Carbon Core PE foam? They currently only have the Carbon Core PVC foam in stock, so I have been looking at that to try to determine if it has the right strength qualities, I was wondering if you think 12 sheets would complete a full Beryllium build with a center console.



I bought a full pallet (16 sheets) and I have three untouched sheets left and some big drops that total another sheet probably. It would be close for sure. I feel I wasn't super careful with my cuts, but not super wasteful either. And yes, I used PE80.


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## jonny

Looks great man!
All those dimples help break surface tension. Good for at least 3 additional mph. Who needs a stepped hull😂


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## C Brueckner

LunarFishing said:


> The skiff looks great Sublime, almost to the finish line.
> 
> I have been looking into a Beryllium build and was wondering how many sheets of Carbon core do you estimate you will use in total? It looks like you possibly used the Carbon Core PE foam? They currently only have the Carbon Core PVC foam in stock, so I have been looking at that to try to determine if it has the right strength qualities, I was wondering if you think 12 sheets would complete a full Beryllium build with a center console.


With my 17’ beryllium I used 12.5 sheets. If your going full length with a console I would order a pallet like Stuart. Then your not sweating coming into the cap or hatch lids. 👍👍


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## Smackdaddy53

jonny said:


> Looks great man!
> All those dimples help break surface tension. Good for at least 3 additional mph. Who needs a stepped hull😂


That’s what I say about my oyster rash


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## Jb306

Following


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## Sublime

I had a crew over cutting down some trees and grinding stumps. I asked them if they wanted to make a nice tip for 5 minutes of work. Now my skiff sits on the trailer.


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## Smackdaddy53

Dude it’s about time!! Haha looking good.


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## bryson

Awesome!! Congratulations! Can't wait to see this thing on the water.


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## Mike Haydon

Did you paint the gas overflow? I'm wondering about it on mine. My back hatch overflows and bilge pumps will match in the back but dont like the little stainless deal in the middle and only on one side. My build is super symmetrical.


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## Sublime

Mike Haydon said:


> Did you paint the gas overflow? I'm wondering about it on mine. My back hatch overflows and bilge pumps will match in the back but dont like the little stainless deal in the middle and only on one side. My build is super symmetrical.


I think in that picture the vent hole still has a paper towel jammed in it from when I sprayed the first coat of primer. I probably won't paint it.


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