# Shadowcast vs Native



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

When faced with exactly the same question more than two years ago I found the best source to be the owner of the company.. Mel.  After explaining where and how I intended to fish he recommended the SUV, and we took his advice.  His evaluation of what to expect from the performance of this hull was honest and spot on.

Yes, nothing beats a wet test.. but a short ride in each boat does not expose you to all the variables you will encounter in your own personal experience.  Both are great boats and an exceptional value.


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Having owned both skiffs (now 2 SUV's), I can tell you that both are great skiffs for doing what you say you do. However, you may find more versatility and the ability to fish two other anglers in the SUV. The SUV takes a chop very well due to the front entry nose and still floats in 5 inches of water. Both skiffs are silent when poling and track excellently. The SUV is just a bigger platform to fish from but till gives you that skinny water draft that you may need come winter time. I primarily sight fish in Tampa and Sarasota Bay and both skiffs met and exceeded my demands. The increased size of the SUV is what made me go back to one.


----------



## RedAnt78 (Sep 20, 2012)

I'll admit I am bias since I have never even seen a shadowcast in person, but I have an SUV 17 and I love it. I fish the ML mostly and there are days when the wind is coming straight from the north or south and it handles the chop really well. I haven't had any time where I felt like the SUV couldn't handle it. I'm able to get into the back country no problem and can pole in like ankle deep water. When I bought the boat it was a tiller so I had it converted into a center console just because I was sick of having a tiller. I don't think I'll ever have a tiller again, but that's a different topic.


----------



## Guest (Apr 24, 2014)

I have a suv17 that I had built very light powered by just a Mercury 25hp and cannot think of anything either Shadow Cast Model does better then the 17. I run just under 30mph, draft 5" ( not having a Tunnel )And have never felt unsafe it gets rough. Able to Run the Beaches out of the Port during Summer more often then not.


----------



## Jeremy_James (Feb 27, 2013)

What is your budget?



Also, does anyone have the updated price sheet for the SUV 17?


----------



## duckman (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. My budget at the moment is 5000 for the hull. I have a 2 stroke Johnson 25 I would like to use on it. I'm not in a super big rush so I can continue to save if needed.


----------



## mikeregas (Mar 15, 2013)

> Thanks for all the responses. My budget at the moment is 5000 for the hull. I have a 2 stroke Johnson 25 I would like to use on it. I'm not in a super big rush so I can continue to save if needed.


Go put a deposit on a boat with them. It gets you in line and by the time you decide what you want you might be up next in line. 

I looked at both as well and ended up with a Copperhead. I would take any of them though they are great boats and an amazing value. 

Good Luck and let me know if you want to take a ride in a Copperhead, I live in Satellite Beach.


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

> Also, does anyone have the updated price sheet for the SUV 17?


PM me your email address and I can get you one.


----------



## --AL-- (Nov 28, 2012)

> Thanks for all the responses. My budget at the moment is 5000 for the hull. I have a 2 stroke Johnson 25 I would like to use on it. I'm not in a super big rush so I can continue to save if needed.


I would start by selling the 25 and saving for a 40hp whatever. Then start with a SUV17 hull barebones and add to your design as your budget allows, prioritizing the fundamental components (a great bilge pump) vs the toys that are just fun to have but completely unnecessary (electronic instrument display).

I personally don't like tiller 'cause my body gets tired, but a tillered SUV17 with a 40hp would be a fast boat with alot of room and I think it would be difficult to find a hand-laid boat of that size and quality at that price. I bang the hell out of my SUV, it feels like an old iron bathtub.


----------



## alexz (Oct 22, 2013)

I am scheduled for a test run Saturday May 10. It would be very helpful if the SUV owners on this thread could list what specs they have, what they wish they had and what they could have done without. For example, a couple of my questions are as follows:

Will I NEED the trim tabs to plane quickly?

If I plumb the stern port side hatch for a livewell, will I have enough dry storage in starboard hatch?

If I go with the guide box and plumb that for a livewell, is that a 15 gallon livewell that is permissible for catch and release tournaments like the IFA redfish series?

Should I go with a guidebox or just use my current pelican cooler to put in front of the console?

Should I buy a power pole or micro power pole or neither?

How can I find a faster way to get a boat than the 11 month waitlist? 

Lastly, does anyone with an SUV or Shadow cast within an hour or 2 of Orlando want to take me out fishing if I pay for all essentials, lunch and do all the poling while you fish? I may even throw in some cash if I can fish a little too. Let me know.

Thanks for any help and insight you can provide.


----------



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

Mine: SUV CC with ETEC 40 with poling platform, trolling motor and guide box bait well (in front of the console) sitting on an aluminum  Float-On.
I believe my SUV benefited from the installation of trim tabs.  Mel recommend them, he designed the hull so I put them on.
I use every bit of the entire rear hatch, forward hatch, and CC for storage.  I take a small cooler when using the bait well for.. bait, and use the bait well for a cooler when not.
I have used the coffin box bait well for a live well several times and it worked great... even with multiple decent sized fish.  However, I do not know what is officially "permissible".
When using a cooler, I use a square cube Igloo that fits perfectly in front of the guide box.
I use a "Stick-it" instead of a power pole.  Mel can arrange to have the receiver installed either on the transom or on the platform.. a no-brainer.
I guess the only way to get one without waiting is to buy used.. There are a couple out there.
I live in WPB .. The factory in Ft. Pierce is one hour closer and they'll arrange a wet test if there isn't someone closer to take you up on the offer.

Those who read my posts are likely weary of hearing me say how much we love ours.. but it's true.

Hope this all helps.


----------



## alexz (Oct 22, 2013)

Thanks.  What is the coffin box? To be permissible, it is to be 15 gallons and keep the catch alive.  Do you find that 40hp is too much?   I was thinking of going with the 30hp to save about 1500.  What do u think?


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

> Will I NEED the trim tabs to plane quickly?


The SUV planes at 11 mph and in my experiences with my two SUV's does not need tabs.  If you catch a quartering wind, just shift your weight a few inches to the left or right and slow down.



> If I plumb the stern port side hatch for a livewell, will I have enough dry storage in starboard hatch?


Here is my thought on the stern livewell....I personally do not like have saltwater near the battery and wiring, plus that is more weight towards the rear of the skiff.



> If I go with the guide box and plumb that for a livewell, is that a 15 gallon livewell that is permissible for catch and release tournaments like the IFA redfish series?


I feel that this is the way to go as far as a livewell set up on the SUV.  It is an 18 gallon livewell and would be able to keep 2 reds alive per your tournament needs.  When you are not using it as a livewell, more storage.  Plus it keeps the weight of the water on the center line and will not affect the draft.



> Should I go with a guidebox or just use my current pelican cooler to put in front of the console?


I have a guide box in mine and love it.  I use mine as dry storage and a seat for two passengers (lodge style).  If you plan on doing a livewell on your skiff, IMHO, this is the way to go. 



> Should I buy a power pole or micro power pole or neither?


I am not one for electronics as they add weight and are more things that can break. The Ankona poling platforms come with a stick-it anchor pin bracket already on it.  However, Power Pole has hit a HOME RUN with this Micro.  It is a great device and could come in handy when fishing tournaments, like it sounds like you plan on doing.



> How can I find a faster way to get a boat than the 11 month waitlist?


Find a used one on here.... or.... don't overlook the Cayenne.  It is a very underrated skiff and is similar in size, draft, and set up to the SUV.  It is a great riding skiff and has the potential for greater range with a larger HP capacity.  



> Lastly, does anyone with an SUV or Shadow cast within an hour or 2 of Orlando want to take me out fishing if I pay for all essentials, lunch and do all the poling while you fish?  I may even throw in some cash if I can fish a little too.  Let me know.


I live like 20 minutes south of Tampa off I-75 and you are more than welcome to come over for a wet test and pole and fish my skiff.


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

> What is the coffin box?  To be permissible, it is to be 15 gallons and keep the catch alive.  Do you find that 40hp is too much?   I was thinking of going with the 30hp to save about 1500.  What do u think?


Coffin box.... guide box.... same thing.  I have a 30 HP Tohatsu 4 stroke tiller on my SUV.  I love it.  I can get 28.5 mph WOT with me and one other person, with the stock prop.  I might be able to see 30 by myself and propped out.  I'm not looking break any speed records.  With a 40, you will see mid 30's.  It just depends on how fast you want to go.

Here is the thread with pics.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1381025604/0


----------



## alexz (Oct 22, 2013)

Thanks, hopefully last question: is your guide box plumbed for live well ? If so, when you use it for storage instead, does it stay completely dry? I will pm u about the ride.


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

> Thanks, hopefully last question:  is your guide box plumbed for live well ?  If so, when you use it for storage instead, does it stay completely dry?  I will pm u about the ride.


My guide box is not plumbed for a livewell.  It stays completely dry.  If it was plumbed, just plug it, towel dry it out, and it too will stay dry.


----------



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

My guide box is plumbed.  If not using it for bait, live well or a cooler, simply plug it (rubber plug was provided when we bought the boat) and it remains dry for storage... 
ALTHOUGH: Once, and only once, I accidentally hit the bait well pump switch on the console with stuff stored there, and the flow valve had been left open... Only once.


----------



## alexz (Oct 22, 2013)

> My guide box is plumbed.  If not using it for bait, live well or a cooler, simply plug it (rubber plug was provided when we bought the boat) and it remains dry for storage...
> ALTHOUGH: Once, and only once, I accidentally hit the bait well pump switch on the console with stuff stored there, and the flow valve had been left open... Only once.



Great information, thanks. I am going to look at some used Mitzi's and Ankonas, only because of the long wait. Otherwise, I would go with the SUV without a doubt.

Another option is going with the Cayenne, but I am always weary of what manufacturer's claim their draft to be and they say the SUV is 6 and the Cayenne is 7. That leaves me wondering if the SUV is really 6-8 and the Cayenne is 7-10. IF I wanted a 10 inch draft, I already found a sweet 2001 Maverick with a new motor on it for about the same price as a new SUV. My issue is that I like to get way into the back country in the lagoon and take out single bull reds one by one. I previously fished out of an LT25 and that thing floated in next to nothing. I am talking 2-3 inches max. I am afraid of how I will be limited doubling that number for the SUV and maybe even tripling that number for the Cayenne. However, I have seemed to convince myself that the SUV is fine, but that 11 month wait kills me and now has me trying to convince myself that the Cayenne would work too. Decisions....Decisions....


----------



## Sean_Schlobohm (Mar 21, 2012)

Ok,to chime in for the shadowcast.I have the shadowcast 16 and as its a magnificent skiff and allows me to get to ultra skinny locations, it most certainly would not be a great 3 person boat. Shadowcast 18 maybe but not the 16. My son and I have developed(and Im sure other shadowcast/gladesman owners) a fond sense of I know what hes doing and vice versa or someone goes swimming or potentially could anyway. Once you get it down,its fabulous. Just my two cents


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

> Another option is going with the Cayenne, but I am always weary of what manufacturer's claim their draft to be and they say the SUV is 6 and the Cayenne is 7.  That leaves me wondering if the SUV is really 6-8 and the Cayenne is 7-10.


Draft on the SUV is 5". I have poled mine over wet mud bars in the winter time. Obviously if you load it down, you may be looking at 6". The Cayenne is a 6" draft. Hit up tampa_flats_girl (Alissa) and she can tell you all about the Cayenne performance.


----------



## CedarCreek (Nov 23, 2012)

The 11month wait thing keeps popping up so I wanted to chime in about that. For me, when I ordered my SUV Oct 2012 it was about a 5-6 month wait but it took another month to arrange a trip to Ft Pierce for the pickup. I know 11 months is longer than what I had but weeks and months fly by for me (probably an indication of my age). I used the time to wet test, contemplate other rides, basically what you are doing now except I went ahead with the deposit to hold my spot. I enjoyed the whole process and ended up with exactly what I wanted. If you want a new one, I'd stick it out. And in the meantime, if the right used one pops up go for it.


----------



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

I agree with Shadowcast on the 5" draft with one person.  I have poled in what seemed like less than 8" with four people on board.  I was stuck back in "The Narrows" south of the St. Lucie Inlet on a falling tide with my wife on board and we were able to pull the boat over a wet sandbar.  My wait was 5-6 months and the time went fast.. but I did have another boat to use during the wait.  We also used that time to research and fine tune our build.  For us.. it was well worth the wait.  I have no desire or intention to buy another boat.

By the way.. there is a YouTube video of someone walking an SUV in what looks like no more than 3".. less than ankle deep.  Pull it up and look for yourself.


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I have an SUV and a friend of mine has a Shadowcast. I find the SUV to be a more stable boat at rest. The Shadowcast seems to be a better preforming hull as well as a faster boat. Personally, I like the larger beam of the SUV. My friends shadowcast has a full cap so it feels even smaller. With that said, we fish together a lot and if we are making shorter runs (think less than 30 minutes one way) we take my boat. If we are making those long runs in Hopedale (20+ miles one way) then we take the Shadowcast.

Both boats seem to be roughly the same when poling, the Shadowcast may preform a touch better when the wind kicks up. That may be anecdotal but it feels that way when I'm on the pole. Our forward casting platforms are set up differently so that may play a factor. His is as far forward as you can get it, if you step off the front you're in the water. Mine has a little room to step off onto the bow if needed. 

I can not speak for draft on the Shadowcast, I've never tried to measure. However, I have measured draft on the SUV and with two guys and minimal fly gear she floats in an honest 5-6 inches. 

They are both excellent boats. Where one falls short, the other excels. I don't think either boat is better than the other.


----------



## alexz (Oct 22, 2013)

Wow, this loyal owner base really has me liking my odds of liking the Ankona. Hopefully this is my last question. Shadowcast can probably answer this best since he has owned 2 SUVs. Is there anything structurally diff. Between the new SUVs and the 2011? Are they the same hull? If not, how did the 2011s ride?


----------



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm fairly certain that unlike the Copperhead, there have been no changes in the SUV hull shape, weight.. or how the structure of the hull itself is built, or how it will "ride" or perform.  However, there have been several changes and upgrades with regard to options on how you can have your build outfitted and finished.  Shadowcast can probably elaborate further, or call Mel and Erin direct.


----------



## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

> Shadowcast can probably answer this best since he has owned 2 SUVs.   Is there anything structurally diff.  Between the new SUVs and the 2011?  Are they the same hull?  If not, how did the 2011s ride?


Nothing different on the SUV since 2011.


----------



## --AL-- (Nov 28, 2012)

Another thing about the different Ankona boats that drove my decision was that I need to cross Biscayne Bay to get to my flats. The SUV has a sharp entry that cuts chop very well. Once you learn how to use that thing (when you stop bow steering) it is very effective for rough water. I think trim tabs are necessary to properly adjust the boat for rough conditions.

However, many forum members here reside in central Florida/space coast/texas with their flat lagoons and shallow creeks and in these areas I think maybe the Shadowcast may outperform with it's tunnel and smaller draft.

The copperhead can take a 60hp and can go the distance fast but I opted for the increased freeboard of the SUV and the cheaper 40hp engine. I believe the Copperhead has a smoother fit and finish than the SUV or shadowcast.

The Cayenne is very sweet, I think this is their higher end boat. Probably good for the same areas the copperhead is. Also, very nice fit n finish.

This is all imho, _I'm just a customer_ as the song goes...


----------



## BMPDave2013 (Nov 12, 2013)

Lots of great info in this thread that really makes me think the decision I made last October to order a Native 17 even with an 8 month wait will be well worth it!


----------



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

Al.. My guess is the difference in draft between the Shadowcast and the SUV is no more than an inch.. if that.

Dave.. You're almost there. Congratulations! Time to start making those final decisions.


----------



## BMPDave2013 (Nov 12, 2013)

> The 11month wait thing keeps popping up so I wanted to chime in about that. For me, when I ordered my SUV Oct 2012 it was about a 5-6 month wait but it took another month to arrange a trip to Ft Pierce for the pickup. I know 11 months is longer than what I had but weeks and months fly by for me (probably an indication of my age). I used the time to wet test, contemplate other rides, basically what you are doing now except I went ahead with the deposit to hold my spot. I enjoyed the whole process and ended up with exactly what I wanted. If you want a new one, I'd stick it out. And in the meantime, if the right used one pops up go for it.



I thought the 8 month wait was long but it is going by fast. The good thing as you mentioned above was having the time to make decissions on how to build it, change your mind, make another decission, change your mind... :.

The one major change I made from the day I put a deposit on my native 17 is I'm going to go with remote steer instead of tiller. Pretty major change that I'm glad I had the time to make.


----------



## duckman (Jun 25, 2012)

I ended up buying a used 16 shadocast and absolutely love it for fishing the mosquito/Indian river lagoon. I caught my first east central slam + snook yesterday in brevard while fishing solo. If you are on the fence about ankona do yourself a favor and fish from one. I doubt you will disappointed.


----------



## RonBari (Jun 30, 2012)

Congratulations.. Here's of tons of fun and fish slime on your "new" Shadowcast! Sounds like it found the perfect home.


----------

