# The Plytanic 2.0 - FS17 build 2.0 (CURSE OF THE PLYTANIC)



## firecat1981

FS17 build, Take 2, lol. As some of you guys know I ran into some trouble building my last strong back and frames. I had something off to where I couldn't line up the stringers correctly. This could be because I tried to modify the stringer height, or transom thickness. Either way it bothered me enough to where I just wanted to start over. I'm going to build the shell to plans then make some modifications after the hull is flipped over. I requested the last thread be deleted so guys don't get confused

So the last strong back I tried using 2x4x8's as they were the best thing I could find. Even though I leveled and straightened them as best as I could I can't be sure the issue wasn't there. I'm not willing to try that again so I decided to build my own strong back runners.

I got a piece of Sanded ply. Cut it into 6" strips and laminated it together.
20171120_134125_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171120_152842_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Even after all that I wasn't 100% happy, so I snapped a chalk line and cut them down to 5.5". This is as straight as I can possibly get it!
20171121_110751_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

A couple of notes here. I was amazed how many screws I used building the previous strong back. If you think you have enough, double it.
Also I went to go buy one of those big nice drywall squares to cut my new frames with. Well they are pinned together parts to make the 90 degrees, which I don't like, I wanted a one piece tool. I decided to check them prior to buying, and by the time you are 48" out they were at least 3/16" off! I guess drywall doesn't need to be that accurate, but I'll stick to a t-square and ruler.


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## Smackdaddy53

You need a table saw brother! That plywood will stay true. If I ever build a boat the strongback will be made from versalam beams.


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## firecat1981

I have one, but it's a pos. What I need is a perfectly level 18ft long work table to laminate on, instead of a wavy garage floor. It's all good now.

I was hoping to get a lot done today, but the kids are off of school. I did manage to get the strong back finished.
20171121_140728_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It is square to withing 1/16", and level across 6 fields length wise and 4 across the beam. I don't think I can get it any closer.
20171121_154151_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## noeettica

I have a killer table saw I will Lease it to you for FREE ...

Loving this build , and admire your patience and skills


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## firecat1981

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.


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## jonrconner

Looks like you’re off to a good start, I would suggest a water level to get everything dead on, it’s just a water bottle and a long piece of plastic tubing, you can leave it in place for your whole build and check things as you go along with dead accuracy.
JC


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## anytide

plywood is your best friend as far as square. check it with a cross measurement or plythetic theorem..
and make your own large speed/T-squares from a sheet.


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## firecat1981

Since I wasn't going to work much on it over the holidays, I broke down and bought a laser level. More to come.


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## firecat1981

I was able to sneak out to the garage for a bit. I was able to finish cutting out the frames. I forgot how much heavier MDF is then plywood or OSB, and it cuts slower, but it's done.

20171126_161842_001_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Everything lines up well, like last time
20171126_175059_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also cut out the new test stringer. I put the laser level to good use. I know this one is straight and to plans.
20171126_160845_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'll be gone the next few days, but hopefully I'll get the frames up by weeks end.


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## firecat1981

Well I'm basically back to where I was before I started over. I used the laser level to line everything up. I'm not sure if it really made anything easier as it took a while to setup. 
20171129_134604_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Everything is all lined up and ready for the next step.
20171129_154830_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171129_160358_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Stringers are a little off still, but close enough.


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## firecat1981

Not to much to report just yet. I cut out the first layer of the transom, but came into some question regarding the size of the clamping board. After some chatting back and forth I determined the best course of action is to go back to my original plan of extending one of the layers to full length, and then making sure the clamping board extends down a few more inches. This should give me more then a big enough clamping board to do what I need and increase the strength of the transom quite a bit.

20171130_090935_resized (1) https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

As far as the stringers are concerned, I'm going to keep them the same for now. I figure moving them up 3/8" will not effect the height much. If it changes the height by 1/64" I would be surprised. I have some days off coming up, it's time to get moving on this.


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## firecat1981

Not to much progress as I slowed down a bit to finish the transom. Unfortunately I'm working in tighter quarters because my garage is loaded down so I have to hurry up and wait for the resin.

Yesterday I cut out the second layer of the transom and the 2 layers for the clamping board using a router so they match closely. Today I am working on laminating everything. I always start with a thin coat of neat epoxy that I let set for at least 20 minutes. I see a lot of guys skip this step and have issues later because the wood soaks up so much and can rob epoxy from glass and other things.
20171205_094759_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I loaded on the thickened epoxy, spread with a notched trowel and weighed down the clamping boards. I used a mix of wood flour, milled fibers, and silica for the mix. I'll need to do 3 separate bondings to make sure it comes out well. Transom panel to transom panel, clamping board to clamping board, then clamping board to transom. The first two are setting up now.
20171205_105223_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I've never used MarineEpoxy before but seems to work well. My only complaint, and it's minor, is the color of the resin, or lack there of. Both the hardener and base are nearly clear, so when rushing you still really need to pay attention. I'm used to the hardener being honey colored, so I might need to switch back for any bright work I do to get the look I want.

Here's a tip I learned. Always keep your roller or brush until everything is cured. It's a great indicator that everything is going right and lets you quickly see what stage everything is in without putting finger marks in your glass. I just keep mine in the glove I take off, when it's rock solid it goes in the trash.
20171205_094920_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

Here is the transom all laminated together. It's pretty stout and once the glass is added I'm sure this thing could handle any power I toss at it.
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Here it is clamped in place. I can't imagine getting it more lined up, so I'm happy with it.
20171206_092738_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I then got the bottom panels cut out. Unfortunately I ran into a snag here, the plywood warped a bit. I couldn't line up the panel ends well, the best I could do is wet out the Biaxial cloth and weigh it down with a piece of MDF. It worked ok, but I'm not super happy with the results. It will allow me to do the other side well, then I may revisit it.
20171206_121528_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Hoyt_Dow

Good job.


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## firecat1981

Thanks, it' been a challenge this time around, but once the hull panels are on things should smooth out a bit.


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## WhiteDog70810

What the hell? I figured you'd be done with this by now.

Nate


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## firecat1981

Seriously Nate, I think it's harder for me to work from plans. There are a lot more rules that you just need to trust, and I've ran into a lot of issues. The trade off is I know this design is tried and true, and will be great in the end, just need to get past the basic shaping stage.

Well you can account for many things, but you can't stop mother nature. It's a wet cool day, but I'm gonna try and push on, just can't work outside of the garage.

I tossed the bottom panels up. Finally get to start seeing what will be. I've got a pinch point in the keel, I'll just need to smooth is out a little before final stitching.
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The first side of glass didn't come out awesome, but it's not the worse either. I'll do an overcoat of neat epoxy to see it it can fill in a few small voids in the weave, if not I'll grind them out later.
20171207_084947_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm starting to bond the side panels together. I'll have to do it in multiple laminations because of the weather and space available.
20171207_094809_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm going to work on a few small projects just to get ready soon, like the drain tube and rounded live well ends in the next few days.


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## firecat1981

I ran out soon after my last post because I got a email about a sale at Lowes. A little while later I ended up with a new toy for $49
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This resin is much slower then I figured so I have to wait a bit longer. I got the medium hardener, it gives me about 12-15 minutes work time, but takes about 6-7 hours to harden. It's been between 72-81 degrees this week so far. I'm glad I didn't option for the slow hardener, but I think the fast might have to little work time so the medium will work out fine.

Since I have some extra time between the resin drying I tackled a small project. Let me start by saying I hate brass drain tubes. I had one on my old gheenoe and it always leaked. I get why they exist, but since we put so much time into our boats why not make a better drain tube? I've done this on my last few boats and it works out great with no chance of leaking around the tube. 

I start with a 1" dowel, then sand about 1\16" off so the plug fits well, and because wrapping it in plastic adds thickness back.
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Wrapped in plastic, I only need about a 1.5" section so I make one 4" long with room to trim.
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I wrapped the glass around and secured with some tape. I used scraps I had around. I think I ended up with 2 layers of veil cloth, and 3 layers of 9oz cloth.
20171207_135656 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I wet it out with tinted resin. Since my boat will be ice blue I tried to match it using white and blue tint. Make sure to apply the resin and roll it out the same direction you wrapped it.
20171207_141525 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Once it's cured and I'm ready for it I will drill an oversize hole and bed it with thickened epoxy. I'll leave at least 1/8" hanging out and sand it flush once cured.


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## yobata

What are you tinting your resin with?


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## firecat1981

Pigment from fgci. It's compatible with resins and most paints, so I'm using it to tint the top coat also.

https://fgci.com/products/42/Pigment/

A little goes a long way.


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## Hoyt_Dow

The rubber drain plugs are adjustable. Twist the t clockwise to tighten so it won't leak. I prefer the ones with the loops that tighten with a cam.


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## firecat1981

Thanks? I would hope everyone already knew that. If you posted that in response to my statement on brass tube leaking, I think you misunderstood. I'm talking about leaks around the tube itself, not the plug.


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## jonrconner

I’ve used PVC pipe for drains with no problems, they do need to be drilled out to fit a standard plug.
JC


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## firecat1981

Resin doesn't bond great to PVC. The guys at BBC say only to use it as a lost mold, in which case it would need to be sealed with 5200 or something. With a glassed in tube like I'm doing there is no chance to leak as it becomes a part of the structure, not just something caulked into it.


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## Pole Position

If you don't mind me asking, what brand of laser did you buy and where from? Also, having never used one before, how steep was the learning curve? Thanks in advance for any info you can share...


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## Hoyt_Dow

firecat1981 said:


> Thanks? I would hope everyone already knew that. If you posted that in response to my statement on brass tube leaking, I think you misunderstood. I'm talking about leaks around the tube itself, not the plug.


Yep, I probably misunderstood. My boats are wood/glass with epoxied drain holes. No tube liners. You're welcome? Of course.


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## firecat1981

Pole Position said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what brand of laser did you buy and where from? Also, having never used one before, how steep was the learning curve? Thanks in advance for any info you can share...


It's called the hammer head if I recall, and I got it from amazon for $40. It's self leveling, you get it close and it does the rest. It's a bit of a pain to get it lined up with something that already exists because a 1/4" adjustment up close will be 6" when across the room. Once you get used to it it sets up quickly.


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## firecat1981

While working on the panels I took some left over resin and applied it to me test pieces. Eventually these may become rod holders and the structure for the leaning post and platform. My concerns about the resin not adding enough depth of color are not as bad as I thought. The curved beam I wish was a bit darker though, but I might just go with it and use some golden varnish on top. I'm not sure if you can tell, but the beam is made of 4 layers, the final product will be at least twice as thick.
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## Hoyt_Dow

UV blocking varnish will be needed as epoxy can't take the rays.


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## firecat1981

The varnish provides the UV protection.


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## firecat1981

I had been wrestling for days with trying to get the hull bottom panels to fit correctly on the jig. After staring at it for days and then remeasuring I foind out the plywood panels were actually a little out of square, and bonding the two panels together made the issue worse. I had been racking my brain on a fix and I think I got it.

After 8+ hours of measuring, screwing, unscrewing, zip tying, cutting zip ties, measuring again, leveling, setting up laser, stitching panels again, scribing, cutting, trimming, sanding, sweating, and bleeding, I think I have it mostly resolved.

I took one of the panels and blocked/clamped it in place. Well as close to its place as I could get. I took the laser and set it up on the center line of the jig. The sharpie lines you see are where the laser hit, and go all the way almost to the transom. 
20171211_131613 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I trimmed and sanded the panels and stitched them back together. They fit well enough, but need some more sanding due to rubbing on the edges. I'll have gaps to fill on the chines and transom edge. It's a good thing I doubled the transom thickness, or part of the bottom panel would be floating in the air.
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## firecat1981

I tossed on the side panels. I lucked out a bit here because I turned the panels around, the edge that was off kinda canceled out. The sides don't fit to bad, I'll need to make some adjustments though. The boat is a lot bigger now, lol.
20171211_161016 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Hoyt_Dow

I did side panels first then added bottom panels when I built mine.


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## firecat1981

Without the bottom panels there's nothing to hold the sides up with this build method. The zip ties hold it all together.


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## Hoyt_Dow

It was just an observation, not a criticism. Some say potato, some say potatoe.


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## Hoyt_Dow

I like the shape your hull is taking.


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## firecat1981

Thanks. The way this boat is built it depends a bit on the panels hanging naturally to avoid any flat spots. I'm not sure I'm sold on it, but we will see.


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## firecat1981

Spent a few days here and there trying to line up the panels a bit better. I've got some gaps and some spots that bind a bit, but it's good enough and will even out when I radius the edges.
I bonded the transom in then I spot welded/epoxied the joints. I started removing zip ties and it began shifting a bit, so I went back and added some more spot welds. This epoxy takes like 8 hours to cure with the medium hardener, so I can really only get one thing done a day.

20171217_111420 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> Spent a few days here and there trying to line up the panels a bit better. I've got some gaps and some spots that bind a bit, but it's good enough and will even out when I radius the edges.
> I bonded the transom in then I spot welded/epoxied the joints. I started removing zip ties and it began shifting a bit, so I went back and added some more spot welds. This epoxy takes like 8 hours to cure with the medium hardener, so I can really only get one thing done a day.
> 
> 20171217_111420 , on Flickr


I agree, the MarinEpoxy takes a full 8 hours (I used the slow hardener). But I really enjoyed using it more than other brands I have previously tried.

Looking good man! Hopefully you will have some time over the holiday break to keep at it

Also, not fair to talk about the transom and not post a photo. I need to see that rear end


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## firecat1981

I'll see what I can do tomorrow. Honestly I'm not super thrilled with the MarineEpoxy. Don't get me wrong it does the job ok, but I'm used to FGCI's laminating resin. It's a little thicker but has good flow, has more work time, and dryes in 4-7 hours depending on temperature. Also the MarineEpoxy seems to heat up a lot when batched mixed. I had 3oz thickened the other day and when it started kicking it was actually burning my hands.


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## Hoyt_Dow

When I get a hot mix I pour it out on the glass so the heat can dissipate and use a polyethylene spreader to cover the cloth quickly. I go back with the brush and spreader to work it smoothly into the cloth. That process keeps it from hardening too quickly but you have to go quick.


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## firecat1981

But what do you do when piping thickened resin for fillets and such?


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## WhiteDog70810

I am surprised a 3 oz batch was trying to cook off in the bag. I usually didn't have problems until I tried to mix 9 oz batches for fairing. Marinepoxy is all I really used and I just thought all epoxy got hot if you stopped stirring. I liked the fast hardener in the winter for stuff you could dump and spread quickly like fairing, but medium was more sane for fillets.

Nate


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## yobata

I always use the slow hardener. Its "winter" here, but yesterday we got up to 83*


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## firecat1981

I've used, West marine, rakka, FGCI, and one other. None have heated up as much, I've had to cool the resin down before mixing to extend the pot life, but even then it' a bit short. The chart says I should get like 15-20 min at mid 70's, but I'm getting more like 7-9 min.


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## yobata

I read somewhere that BBC's MarinEpoxy is actually the same as Rakka's?? That they buy it in bulk from them and repackage in gallon form. Not sure how true that is.


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## firecat1981

It could be, it's been years since I used there's, but don't remember such a quick and strong reaction. I'll work through it, worst case I go buy a few gallons of the other stuff.


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## Hoyt_Dow

firecat1981 said:


> But what do you do when piping thickened resin for fillets and such?


I mix wood flour or sawdust with normal mix and form it to shape with rubber gloves or shaped spreaders. I don't try to get fancy.


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## DuckNut

firecat1981 said:


> I've used, West marine, rakka, FGCI, and one other. None have heated up as much, I've had to cool the resin down before mixing to extend the pot life, but even then it' a bit short. The chart says I should get like 15-20 min at mid 70's, but I'm getting more like 7-9 min.


I think you got a jug where someone put the wrong label on it. Try a few batches with reduced hardener and see what happens.


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## firecat1981

DuckNut said:


> I think you got a jug where someone put the wrong label on it. Try a few batches with reduced hardener and see what happens.


It's all 2:1 ratio with different formulations for speed. If I mess with the ratio it may never fully cure.


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## firecat1981

Hoyt_Dow said:


> I mix wood flour or sawdust with normal mix and form it to shape with rubber gloves or shaped spreaders. I don't try to get fancy.


I meant how do you keep it from cooking off, it's not like you can spread it out as you said before when wetting out glass. I use wood flour, milled fibers, and fumed silica in different ratios depending on the application.


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## WhiteDog70810

You are using medium hardener and it is comfortable outside? I'd switch to slow hardener of you are having problems. When you thicken epoxy made with medium hardener, it holds on to heat and cooks off hella quick unless it is pretty cool. I seem to recall I liked medium when my garage was in the mid to low 60's and I liked fast when my garage was in the 50's. Because of the generated heat and the thick application, you can use slow hardener on fairly cool days for fillets. Save the medium hardener for sheathing the hull.

Nate


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## firecat1981

I ordered the medium based off their charts that said at 90 degrees I should be able to get 20 minutes until gel. The garage was about 75 degrees the other day, and I was only mixing a 3oz batch, and got less then 10 minutes work time. I get it heats up in quantity, but the previous resins I used I could do 9oz batches in the summer and still get 15 minutes. I've been able to slow it down a bit with chilling the resin first, but it' not an ideal situation.
If I have to pay for more hardener then I might as well just go buy the resin I like, the cure time alone is enough to make me want to just eat the $500. I never understood why it took guys years to finish these boats, but when the resin takes 8-10 hours to cure it doubles the build time.


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## Hoyt_Dow

firecat1981 said:


> I meant how do you keep it from cooking off, it's not like you can spread it out as you said before when wetting out glass. I use wood flour, milled fibers, and fumed silica in different ratios depending on the application.


I pour immediately after thoroughly mixing. You just can't waste time with this expensive stuff. Mix only what you can work with before it cooks off.


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## firecat1981

It's not being poured, it's in a bag or tube being piped into corners and joints and shaped. It's not a quick process in my experience. I'm mixing small batches which wastes a lot of time. 

In the end I'm just not at all impressed with this resin. I've been advised to switch to the slow hardener, but I'm afraid of tossing good money after bad.


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## Hoyt_Dow

I use the slow hardener. The fast stuff is too fast for me.


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## firecat1981

I did a test as suggested by someone else.







This was in my garage, it's cloudy out and 72 degrees. The resin was just pulled from the fridge, I would guess 50 degrees at the warmest, possibly cooler.

I checked every few minutes in between working on the skiff. The cup was gelling at about 23 minutes, the spoon at about 27 minutes. As long as I keep everything cold it's workable. Thickened up and put in a piping bag when cold I'm able to get about 15 minutes or so.


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## yobata

I don't know why, but every time I thicken epoxy (with woodflour) it decreases the working time. I also use the piping bag trick when filletting, which means more but smaller batches. A 3oz batch, once thickened (depending on consistency of course) will often end up being closer to 5-6oz


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## firecat1981

So this is what I've had to do to slow the gel time. Not an ideal situation but it works.


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## firecat1981

Everything is stable and bonded, so I removed the zip ties and prepared to lay down a bunch of thickened epoxy. You can see how there is a gap in the edge of the transom, I'll have to fill this in along with all the gaps on the sides.

20171220_080125 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I sanded the hardened spots lightly cause I was over the 72 hour window. Then did 2 passes with thickened epoxy, first just to get a base to build on, and will likely do a third after I sand it to see how even it came out. I also filled the zip tie holes.

20171220_160431 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171220_160538 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171220_160656 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Now I know some will say not to bother filling the edges in as much as I am, but I really had to. Because of the alignment issues I had earlier my gaps were uneven to the point that without this step it would be hard to find a registration point to make it all have an even radius.


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## Brett

I'm watching you...get it right.


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## jonrconner

I’ve gone through 20 gallons plus of marine epoxy and never experienced what you have, I routinely mixed up 8oz batches of thickened stuff at temps exceeding what you’re talking about without problems, I didn’t dilly dally but I didn’t rush either, I suspect a bad or mislabeled batch of hardener. BTW I always mix by weight on a grain scale @ 7 to 3 ratio which is pretty simple and is exactly what Jacques Mertens ratio specifies.
JC


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## firecat1981

Jaques warned me not to stray away from the 2:1 ratio. It might be just a bad batch, only time will tell really. I've got a functional fix for now, so I can inch ahead.


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## firecat1981

Brett said:


> I'm watching you...get it right.


OMG! Everyone....Brett Lives!

This design would be great for those rivers you were talking about.


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## jonrconner

firecat1981 said:


> Jaques warned me not to stray away from the 2:1 ratio. It might be just a bad batch, only time will tell really. I've got a functional fix for now, so I can inch ahead.


From the Bateau forum- Jacques says,
Somebody called and asked what the mixing ratio was for MarinEpoxy by weight.
The ratio is 100 parts resin for 43 parts hardener by weight.
It is still 100 parts to 50 by volume but the hardener is heavier (more dense, higher specific gravity

If you convert that ratio for a total of 100 parts it simplifies to 70-30 which is just slightly adjusted from the 67-33 volume measurement.

JC


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## firecat1981

Yes I've seen that, but the instructions make a point of stating the ratio is by volume not weight. While I appreciate a lot of what Jacques usually says, there are some things I'm not in agreement with. So let's move on from this.


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## DuckNut

firecat1981 said:


> It's all 2:1 ratio with different formulations for speed. If I mess with the ratio it may never fully cure.


FC,
What I was referring to was even though the label says 2:1 someone may have put the wrong label on or if the label is inked on the bottle filled it with the wrong stuff.


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## firecat1981

I understand and everyone familiar with this resin agrees something is not right, but I have limited options on how to solve it while ensuring a perfect bond and cure. Hindsight being 20/20 I wish I stuck with my original plan, but so many guys told me to get this resin I decided to try it. 

It will work out. I'd rather not bog down the build thread anymore with this.


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## firecat1981

Nothing dramatic to share due to the holidays. I did get out and continue squaring up the corners. It should be ready for shaping when it's cured.

A quick sanding to knock down the high points and then more thickened epoxy applied.
20171226_152032 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here you can see I really had to bridge some wide and uneven gaps, but I think the end result is pretty well fared.
20171226_152055 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171226_152106 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Capt Rhan

I was a master prototype designer for JEJohnson as well as General Dynamics and Whitehorse. I always used cabicel or red micro balones for fill as well as eternal strength ? Don't know if you guys still use this stuff but I don't leave home without it it goes in my beer box


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## firecat1981

I'm using cabosil (fumed silica), wood flour, and milled glass. It makes for a really strong mix. If I need it to be super smooth I leave out the milled fibers.


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## seapro17sv

firecat1981 said:


> Nothing dramatic to share due to the holidays. I did get out and continue squaring up the corners. It should be ready for shaping when it's cured. Nice job on filling in all the gaps, but you'll now need to create a 1/2" radius on all the places you've filled in with the thickened epoxy, essentially removing most of what you just applied. You need the radius for the glass to lay flat, especially aroung the tight bends at the transom. You might already know this, just don't want you to waste time and materials when you do the glass work. After the glass you can create a sharper chine towards the rear of the boat and the bottom of the transom using the same mix. The hull looks great after the little difficulties you had earlier.
> 
> A quick sanding to knock down the high points and then more thickened epoxy applied.
> 20171226_152032 , on Flickr
> 
> Here you can see I really had to bridge some wide and uneven gaps, but I think the end result is pretty well fared.
> 20171226_152055 , on Flickr
> 
> 20171226_152106 , on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Thanks for looking out, but I do know I need to knock it down. The reason I built it all up to a squared off edge is to get the chine consistent. Because of the issues with the plywood ealier you can see how uneven the edges were. If I were to try and radius as it were it would be extremely wavy requiring additional fairing later, which would also make me build up the weaker fairing material. Even though it seems like a waste, it really only required about 9oz of epoxy to finish it all, but I know everything is nice and fair now. 
To me it's better to build on a seemingly solid foundation up front, then work out issues on the back end.


----------



## Hoyt_Dow

That is why I did the sides on my skiff first with the curves pre-milled. When I pulled the bottom down to the sides it was fair and ready to glass without further adjustment.


----------



## firecat1981

That's not how the designer intended for this hull to go together. Either way it wouldn't have worked because of the out of square issue I had. You also need to be able to adjust the gaps, because you don't want the wood sides making contact at the chine or keel creating a hard spot.


----------



## firecat1981

I got a few hours in today rounding the edges and fixing a few small things.

Someone asked how I planned to make the radius. I made a small guide by boring a hole in a scrap of MDF, then made some slices so the are different sizes to use on different angles along the chine.
20171228_095626 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Sand a bit and slide it along the edge to see if you need to sand more in a spot. Don't be super aggressive, I used 80 grit and took my time.
20171228_101139 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

She's about ready for some glass. This is the same radius I on my last boat, but used it with heavier 17oz biaxial. I filled in some pin holes and gouges in the wood, so it's as good as it gets.
20171228_133314 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171228_133424 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Well we have a house full of sickness, but I managed to get out and do some work. The temps only got up to the low 60's. 

Biaxial tape cut and staged.
20171229_095858 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Then glassed.
20171229_153518 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171229_153548 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20171229_153603 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

if you noticed I have a heat gun hanging from the garage door opener. This is essentially my ghetto heater. I suspended it away from everything and plugged it into a gfi outlet. I just use the low setting, but that's enough to keep the garage at 70-71 degrees with the door closed. Not a perfect solution, but it's safe and keeps me from buying another one time use item.


----------



## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> Well we have a house full of sickness, but I managed to get out and do some work. The temps only got up to the low 60's.
> 
> Biaxial tape cut and staged.
> 20171229_095858 , on Flickr
> 
> Then glassed.
> 20171229_153518 , on Flickr
> 
> 20171229_153548 , on Flickr
> 
> 20171229_153603 , on Flickr
> 
> if you noticed I have a heat gun hanging from the garage door opener. This is essentially my ghetto heater. I suspended it away from everything and plugged it into a gfi outlet. I just use the low setting, but that's enough to keep the garage at 70-71 degrees with the door closed. Not a perfect solution, but it's safe and keeps me from buying another one time use item.


Very clean and efficient work! Are you wetting out the fiberglass on a lamination table or right on the hull?


----------



## firecat1981

Right on the hull. I prime with a neat coat and let it soak in for 15-20min. Then lay the glass roll on more resin and use a aluminum glass roller to get rid of all the bubbles, well I hope lol.


----------



## firecat1981

Not much to report, still a bit sick, but it's wet and cold as you all know so I'm not going to open the garage door just yet.

I did however get around to ordering some HBN (white graphite) to do the epoxy graphite coating later on. It's pricy stuff, and even though I still had some black graphite left I didn't feel it would look right on this build.


----------



## DuckNut

I think you will like the HbN a bit better.

How are you planning to keep the epoxy from turning yellow?


----------



## firecat1981

You mean from UV or just from mixing?

The guys I've seen use the HBN, once applied, it's translucent. A semi-solid milky white. I'm going to add in some white pigment to solidify it up. The resin is really clear so the tinted parts I've done come out pretty bright. If it' a little off white that's ok too, it will match the non skid.


----------



## yobata

Opaque, not translucent?


----------



## firecat1981

yobata said:


> Opaque, not translucent?


To what do you refer?


----------



## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> To what do you refer?


Sorry, your earlier post said when you mix in the HBT to epoxy it makes it translucent, I think you mean opaque, as in light will not get thru and therefore discolor the epoxy??


----------



## firecat1981

No I really meant translucent. At a 25% mix it doesn't make it fully opaque, hence the reason I need to add the pigment to help it along. With the pigment and HBN added in it shouldn't yellow much, especially since it' on the bottom of the boat.


----------



## DuckNut

Yes, yellowing. My experience is that all epoxy will yellow, some brands worse than others.


----------



## yobata

DuckNut said:


> Yes, yellowing. My experience is that all epoxy will yellow, some brands worse than others.


duck, is the yellowing just a cosmetic effect or does it have a degradative effect on the epoxy? I guess what I'm asking is, is it going to fail (sooner), or other negative effects?

I have not yet painted my splash well, it is still exposed epoxy. I haven't noticed a difference in color of the epoxy although I'm guessing that I would need a side by side comparison for it to be very noticeable after only a year or so...


----------



## firecat1981

Most resins will either darken or yellow with age and UV exposure. But the effect is not as pronounced on more modern epoxies from my experience. I have parts i made for a cedar kayak that have been sitting outside for years now with no yellowing, maybe just a little darkening. Anything mixed it that blocks the UV from penetrating (pigment, fillers, UV additives....) will make it last longer. Think about gelcoat, it's essentially polyester resin with pigments mixed and maybe a few other additives mixed in. Naturally the best method is to top coat with good paint.


----------



## DuckNut

yobata said:


> duck, is the yellowing just a cosmetic effect or does it have a degradative effect on the epoxy? I guess what I'm asking is, is it going to fail (sooner), or other negative effects?
> 
> I have not yet painted my splash well, it is still exposed epoxy. I haven't noticed a difference in color of the epoxy although I'm guessing that I would need a side by side comparison for it to be very noticeable after only a year or so...


I can not answer that question with 100% certainty. The yellowing is a natural process caused by UV light. Does it have a negative effect? I'm sure it will over a long period of time but negligible over short term.

One reason you may not have noticed the color difference is that it is gradual and you are accustomed to seeing it. 



firecat1981 said:


> Think about gelcoat


Nice deflect - poly and epoxy are two completely different compounds and age quite differently. The effect on epoxy will be significantly more pronounced than poly. Also, I don't believe you have ever used anything other than modern epoxies as you haven't been using them for 40 years.


----------



## firecat1981

DuckNut said:


> Nice deflect - poly and epoxy are two completely different compounds and age quite differently. The effect on epoxy will be significantly more pronounced than poly. Also, I don't believe you have ever used anything other than modern epoxies as you haven't been using them for 40 years.


I, as well as everyone else here, am fully aware that they are separate compounds. However I think you are off base thinking they age much differently when exposed to UV, yes the time line may be quicker with epoxy, but polyester breaks down in a similar fashion unless pigmented or covered. 
No I haven't used anything but epoxies made in the last 25 years or so, but one doesn't need to use old tech to understand how it's been improved on.

Listen, I get it. It's cold, we are all stuck indoors, getting cabin fever and all, but I would appreciate it if you calmed down.


----------



## Cut Runner

Looking good firecat!
This cold wet weather has really hindered my build as well.
Dont forget the role humidity plays in catalyzing resins!
Also, a $20 laser temp gun is really handy for watching resin temps before mixing and during catalyzation


----------



## firecat1981

Cut Runner said:


> Looking good firecat!
> This cold wet weather has really hindered my build as well.
> Dont forget the role humidity plays in catalyzing resins!
> Also, a $20 laser temp gun is really handy for watching resin temps before mixing and during catalyzation


What yatch are you working on this week? Good idea on the gun, right now I'm still chilling the resin to extend the pot life. I have a system down now and it seems to work well so far.

Resin and weather are fickle friends. Cool and dry your good, hot and humid your still doin ok, but wet and cold is a no no. 

Not much to talk about between the weather and the flu. I did spend some time sanding today and I'm ready to glass the rest of the hull bottom now.


----------



## firecat1981

Like I said, not much to report. The weather has been pretty bad, just wet and cold, so not much has been done. The problem with building in a small garage is I have to open the door to access the front of the hull. I did get around to sanding the tape down, it's ready for the rest of the fiberglass.

20180110_132643 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180110_132721 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After sanding I applied some neat epoxy over everything. I know it's not needed but I like to fill as many of the small voids as possible. The biaxial has a very wide pattern compared to woven cloth, this will held bonding to the next layer of glass. I'll give it a quick sanding before applying the final biaxial in a few days.

20180110_141440 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It was cool out today, so after applying the resin I used my happy little heat gun to warm up the garage. Went from 70 degrees up to 81 in about 20 minutes.


----------



## Cut Runner

Ive been doing a complete stringer up rebuild on a 1966 formula 233 (the hull that started contender,seavee,whitewater etc). Im converting it to a center console doghouse with a fiberglass hull extension outboard bracket., all composite but overbuilt. You know i can never do a basic rebuild lol. Sticking to my roots, its going to be the only boat that size ive ever seen offshore thats hells bay guide green inside and out lol


----------



## DuckNut

Cut Runner said:


> Ive been doing a complete stringer up rebuild on a 1966 formula 233 (the hull that started contender,seavee,whitewater etc). Im converting it to a center console doghouse with a fiberglass hull extension outboard bracket., all composite but overbuilt. You know i can never do a basic rebuild lol. Sticking to my roots, its going to be the only boat that size ive ever seen offshore thats hells bay guide green inside and out lol


Welcome back old timer. Good to hear your voice.


----------



## firecat1981

The weather has been crappy lately, but I'm pushing on. I gotta say, biaxial adds some challenges, it's just not as fun to glass as woven and a pain to fair, but I understand it's purpose. That being said it seems to take longer to wet out then cloth does, so I was only able to do half the hull today. I hope to find some time tomorrow to finish, but I'll have to sand the edges again.

Half primed
20180112_120504 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Half glassed
20180112_150238 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## Cut Runner

When working with biax i like to lay it out on the boat where it is going , then peel it halfway back and hot coat the underside then pull it back and repeat with the other side. It makes wetting it out much easier. Then to help with the fairing i would get some peel ply, lay it over the glassed area and squeegee out the excess resin, after it hardens you can pull the peel ply off and you are left with a much nicer surface!! Worth the little extra time and $.
(If you know all this already then just disregard my rambling)


----------



## firecat1981

I've been hot coating after priming as well, but it still doesn't wet out as nice as woven. I've tried peel ply and ghetto peel ply with mixed results. The best results I've had with biaxial is when I over coated it with 6oz woven. It faired so much smoother, but I didn't plan on it this round.

Enough pictures of perfectly laid glass, here's some patch jobs I'm doing. According to the plans I only need glass 6" up the sides, well I don't agree with that cause just resin coating can lead to having the wood check later on so I prefer a light cloth to stabilize it. Nearly every inch of my boat will be glassed. That being said, you can see where the biaxial laid after glassing leaving a few areas that have no glass. 
20180115_110033 https://www.flickr.com/photos/1444[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180115_110042 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I sanded the edges to everything, then used some scrap 6oz glass cloth I have to cover the remaining areas.
20180115_121655 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After I finished I epoxy primed the other side of the hull. I'll let it set up for a few hours then go put the rest of the biaxial on.


----------



## firecat1981

So I'm done glassing the bottom, I have a few spots to fix but nothing major. I do have a little bit of a droopy transom, I'll check it over in the next few days and I may need to add a small layer towards the back foot or so to bring it up a bit. Not a big deal.

20180118_130407 , on Flickr

So I'm working on figuring out my reverse chine shapes and angles. The biggest issue is the changing angle at the chines. I think I have it figured out though. I'll mount them, then use a small amount of fillet material to fill the gap so the hull side angle is consistent. Here were the first few I tried. 1" tall and 3/4" tall x 1.5" wide. Not bad but, I don't think they fit right.

20180118_133521 , on Flickr

20180118_133610 , on Flickr

I then tried 3/4" tall by 2" wide, and I think this looks much better. I believe this would be plenty to deflect any spray under normal runs, anything nasty enough to get past these I'm probably getting wet anyways right, lol.

20180118_134424 , on Flickr

20180118_134709 , on Flickr

I plan to start them a few feet back from the bow and run them to the rear. I need to decide what wood to build them out of. It needs to be flexible enough to make the curve, and also solid enough to not crack when I drill holes to keep it in place. I'd rather stay away from pine, and hard woods won't make the curve easy, so I'm thinking I'll just use some cedar.


----------



## jonrconner

Spruce will work well, just need some clear two by stock, and if the curve is too sharp kerf it halfway across every two inches or so. Cedar tends to be pretty brittle, and soft, IMO.
JC


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## firecat1981

I'll see what's around, but soft woods besides pine, cedar, and fur are hard to come by, especially in clear stock.


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## jonrconner

In the NE, spruce is what all two by stock is, don’t know about down your way. Yellow pine might also be good, it’s a southern wood and it’s probably available as flooring stock.
JC


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## firecat1981

I've got yellow pine, no way will it make the curve and it will definitely split when I drill into the thin sides. Most of our 2x stock here is white pine from what I've seen. Not the best to use, but it's an option if need be. I think cedar is better though, and readily accepts resin.


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## DuckNut

Intercity Lumber has Douglas Fir.


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## Hoyt_Dow

Douglas fir has my vote.


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## WhiteDog70810

Could you form the reverse chine by laying a thick bead of silica-thickened epoxy along a damn along the chine and the using a fillet shaper of your creation to shape the bead to match the intended angle of the reverse chine? I'd mount the shaper on a block of wood to hold it perpendicular to the bottom so the angle stays true along the length of the hull. 

I think using wood to form the chine will create more work than necessary with little benefit. The wood serves as a space occupying mass in your current plan, but it will require more tape to armor it up. The underlying seam already has enough tape, so adding more tape on top of that doesn't bring much to the party. Because you have to tape it on, you'll have to round the edges. You'll then have to build the edge back up to get a sharp transitions. 

Nate


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## firecat1981

Could I yes, I did consider it, but after measuring it out I realized it might take a gallon or more of epoxy to get enough material. I don't need the edge rounded over that badly because I'm not using the biaxial on it, just 6oz cloth. I've been going back and forth on it for a month now, I think this is the best way forward.


----------



## LWalker

firecat1981 said:


> I plan to start them a few feet back from the bow and run them to the rear. I need to decide what wood to build them out of. It needs to be flexible enough to make the curve, and also solid enough to not crack when I drill holes to keep it in place. I'd rather stay away from pine, and hard woods won't make the curve easy, so I'm thinking I'll just use some cedar.


Are you concerned with the noise made where the reverse chine exits the water? Have you thought about ending it under the waterline and then doing spray rails above the waterline? It may not concern you at all, just throwing it out there.


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## firecat1981

Not really. I think hull slap is a bit overrated personally. Keep in mind this will be as much of a family skiff as it is a fishing boat. The chines don't hit the water until about 1/3 the way back or so, if I did it from there back it might not be effective enough. The sharper entry combines with the bow flair should help keep us dry too. I'll start them a few feet back from the bow, and I honestly think the noise difference will be minimal.


----------



## firecat1981

I just got back from wood shipping in the area. Looks like douglas fir may be the top contender as HD had 4x4x8's in stock. Looked at a local wood supplier, but all their stuff looked like it had been around a while. No spruce to speak of, and the cedar looked knotty as hell.


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## Cut Runner

It could be just me but even in your last picture, the chine angle looks really steep. It woukd make for a dry ride but if you get some chop caught under that chine especially in a quartering sea your really going to feel it. My hobies chine angle looks pretty close to yours as it is now. Makes it a little wet sometimes but doesnt pound. Maybe go somewhere inbetween?


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## firecat1981

I wanted to go around 1/2" for aesthetics, the guys on the bateau forum are trying to get me to go 1.5" tall which is huge! I figured this was the middle ground, but before I commit I'll make a few more samples.


----------



## LWalker

1/2" x 1.5" wide worked well on my boat


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## firecat1981

Access denied on the pics. Damn photo bucket!


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## LWalker

How about now? I can see the pic now.


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## Cut Runner

Well im no naval architect but i take a deep interest into hull design and i run and get to look at ALOT of different designs. What they are recommending sounds quite agressive to me. Now if you could start the chine that agressive near the bow and taper it as it came back, that would be the cats meow but would be very hard to achieve a mirror image of both sides (im not the best carpenter).
You have to think about the flow of water off the hull. If the angle of the chine is exactly parallel with the water (aka a flat chine) the water will shoot out flat. Add just a little negative angle (reverse chine) and the water leaving the hull is immediately sent back towards the body of water in which you are running in. The steeper the angle of the reverse chine is, the dryer the boat will run (on paper, not always though). The problem with a large reverse chine is it also holds the water inside when your running over a piece of chop and gives a jarring effect because its not releasing the water (kinetic energy from the impact of the boat hitting the chop).

Sorry for the ramble, ive just found that boats with aggresive reverse chine dont run to smooth, especially smaller, lighter hulls. Think tri hull, its the same idea


----------



## firecat1981

I can see the pic now, how far forward do they run, and do they really keep you dry in a chop?

Let me say I'm a realist, I know no matter what this is a 17ft boat and sometimes you get sprayed. I'm just trying to lessen the chance.

Cut, with the increased deadrise moving forward it won't even be a flat chine, let alone reverse at 3/4", but it will help spray move further away that the flare of the hull should take care of the rest. Actually at the stern I'm not even sure if it would be reversed, I'll have to look at it again. I'm open to minimizing it, I just don't want spray rails.


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## firecat1981

It's getting time to start a ton of sanding, and I'm already itchy. I have an old shop vac, and an old orbital sander......why not duct tape them together? Well Gorilla tape at least and a few zip ties.
20180119_142644 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180119_142702 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Seems to work pretty good and should greatly cut down on the dust.

I also fixed up most of the air bubbles I had. I ground them out with a dremel bit, then went over them with a mix of epoxy and milled fibers.


----------



## LWalker

firecat1981 said:


> I can see the pic now, how far forward do they run, and do they really keep you dry in a chop?


Mine are 5 degrees down from level. They run up about 2/3 of the length of the boat....just so they are underwater when at rest. I extended the deck over sides to form rails in the front. Here is some video of it running. You can see the water being directed down and out.


----------



## firecat1981

Your boat is beautiful. Our boats are a bit different in design as mine is not specific to shallow water fishing. The FS17 has a good amount of flare from the stern to the bow, so I may not need to run the rails as far forward as I think. Then the rubrail stiffener sticks out a little more then 3/4" plus what ever rail profile I choose.


----------



## DuckNut

Craftsman Supply stocks spruce.


----------



## firecat1981

So the good news is duct taping the shop vac to the sander seems to work really well. I sanded for section tonight and there was barely any dust. I would say it reduced the dust by at least 2/3's. Bad news is my sander is on it's last leg, I'll need to replace it before the marathon of sanding ahead.

I was able to get out today and get some replacement resin so I should be good to go this week. After sanding I'll need to build up the last foot or so near the transom to get rid of the slight rocker it has.


----------



## jonrconner

I’ve also successfully taped up a connection between sander and vac, it makes everything better including sandpaper life. On sanders, I strongly recommend a variable speed model with a trigger, it will be way less tiring to use, I use a Bosch but the Festool ($$$) is a killer.
JC


----------



## firecat1981

The 5" orbital sander of my dreams....well it's cool at least.









Was going to get another dewalt, but looked into it and went with the ridgid. 3 amps, variable speed, connection ready for the shop vac, and a Lifetime warranty! (As long as it's registered, and it is). It was the same price as the basic dewalt, $59.


----------



## firecat1981

So, sanding.......yep! I spent about 3 hours today doing the first pass of sanding. I also trimmed the excess glass that was hanging off the sides with a multi tool. I decided not to be to aggressive, I've seen some guys sand until the whole boat is milky white. Problem is they are cutting into the structural glass, I just wanted to take down the high spots and some stitches. 

Once I was done with sanding the hull, I blew off all the dust carefully to see what I had. Because of the bubble issue from before I had a lot of little spots that I needed to check. I took an awl and a stainless wire brush, and I pushed on every single spot I could find that didn't look perfect. If it moved I chipped it out and cleaned it up with the brush. This worked great and took about 30 minutes. None of it was structural, but could have given me issues later on when fairing and painting.

20180124_134214 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180124_134323 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Cut Runner

Firecat
Are you going to do a layer of finish cloth over the hull then do the filler , or filler after this sanding?


----------



## firecat1981

It's a bit late for cloth at this point. In hind sight I wish I would have, but the plans don't call for it. Next comes the fairing compound after I settle some small issues and install the chines.


----------



## firecat1981

I over coated with neat epoxy last night to fill in some weave and stabilize the pockets I opened up with the awl. I have to say I'm pretty happy now. All my major areas of concern seem to be dealt with. Today I need to lay a little glass to deal with 2 areas I have some rocker in. Not a huge deal, but I'd rather do this then just fill it in completely with fairing compound.


----------



## Cut Runner

Thats the thing about fiberglass, it can always be fixed


----------



## firecat1981

Spent some time correcting a few low spots this morning. I used 1 to 3 layers of 6oz woven because I don't like the idea of caking on fairing compound.

20180125_093525 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180125_093540 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180125_120108 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180125_120116 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Before anyone points it out, I know a few layers of 6oz won't equal 1/8", but it will get me half way there and that's all I need. Plus it will take out some flex in those areas that could impact the fairing material.


----------



## firecat1981

It won't need that much fairing anymore. I did a coat of the new epoxy, partly to help fill the weave, mostly because I trust this more as a base. The bottom will have the epoxy/hbn coating so it doesn't need to be perfect. The sides, well I'm ok with a 10ft finish.


----------



## Mc_Fly

3/8” fin panel is 36 layers of 6 for reference


----------



## millerrep

firecat1981 said:


> Spent some time correcting a few low spots this morning. I used 1 to 3 layers of 6oz woven because I don't like the idea of caking on fairing compound.
> 
> 20180125_093525 , on Flickr
> 
> 20180125_093540 , on Flickr
> 
> 20180125_120108 , on Flickr
> 
> 20180125_120116 , on Flickr
> 
> Before anyone points it out, I know a few layers of 6oz won't equal 1/8", but it will get me half way there and that's all I need. Plus it will take out some flex in those areas that could impact the fairing material.


Pretty dang smart, I like it. It helps explain why your stuff turns out so nice.


----------



## firecat1981

Mc_Fly said:


> 3/8” fin panel is 36 layers of 6 for reference


If vacuum bagged or pressed maybe, also depends on what kind of 6oz. For my purpose 3 layers of resin rich hand rolled woven comes out around 1/16", according to my test samples.


----------



## Mc_Fly

Hand lam 6oz woven. Poly though, which has better viscosity for panels. I’m about to start the Lm18 and have enjoyed seeing yours come together


----------



## permitchaser

LWalker said:


> Mine are 5 degrees down from level. They run up about 2/3 of the length of the boat....just so they are underwater when at rest. I extended the deck over sides to form rails in the front. Here is some video of it running. You can see the water being directed down and out.


Wow that beauty does float


----------



## firecat1981

I might be trying some SYP instead of the douglas fir for the chines, although I see why guys choose to do the spray rails instead. It may not look at good, but it's easier.


----------



## Hoyt_Dow

SYP is heavy at 45 lbs. per cubic foot. Douglas fir weighs less and has fewer knots so should take the required curve better.


----------



## Hoyt_Dow

The overall weight difference won't be that much but all those little things add up.


----------



## firecat1981

I know it's heavier, but it comes down to what's the better quality when I go to buy it. 

Getting very close to a final decision here. I got a new table saw, it works ok, but all the safety crap they put on them makes it impossible to cut any small or thin parts. So off they came.

Here are the last 2 profiles I tried. 1.5" × 1/2" tall, and 2" × 1/2" high. I would lean towards the 2" wide profile. 









I also made sure I could curve the parts, I'll have to kerf some areas, but it works well and easily bends.









So even after all that I'm still considering other options. I'm toying with the idea of instead of a reverse chine, I could do a strake about 1.5" from the chines edge, following to a few feet from the front. More like you see on some production boats. I put a piece of aluminum angle, which is about the size I would use, to show what I'm thinking of.


----------



## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> I know it's heavier, but it comes down to what's the better quality when I go to buy it.
> 
> Getting very close to a final decision here. I got a new table saw, it works ok, but all the safety crap they put on them makes it impossible to cut any small or thin parts. So off they came.
> 
> Here are the last 2 profiles I tried. 1.5" × 1/2" tall, and 2" × 1/2" high. I would lean towards the 2" wide profile.
> View attachment 22041
> 
> 
> I also made sure I could curve the parts, I'll have to kerf some areas, but it works well and easily bends.
> View attachment 22042
> 
> 
> So even after all that I'm still considering other options. I'm toying with the idea of instead of a reverse chine, I could do a strake about 1.5" from the chines edge, following to a few feet from the front. More like you see on some production boats. I put a piece of aluminum angle, which is about the size I would use, to show what I'm thinking of.
> 
> View attachment 22043


If you go the strake route, would you need to install spray rails also?


----------



## firecat1981

No it would act like a reverse chine, just inset. I'm not sure it would be as efficient, but many production boats use this type of set up. I just really don't like the look of spray rails.


----------



## firecat1981

Still haven't decided what to do on the chines/strakes... So I decided to go ahead with the rub rails.

1/4" leftover okoume cut to 1.5". I also make a few pvc clamps cause I was worried I would not have enough.

20180128_130239 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I got the first section of the rub rail on. Now everyone repeat after me! YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH CLAMPS! Even though I made some extra clamps them and the spring clamps I had really weren't strong enough to keep the ply in place because of the way the hull twists and curves. Not a huge deal as I have other clamps to use, then I used the spring clamps in between just to add pressure.

20180128_150030 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I think I'm going back to harbor freight tomorrow to get a few more clamps. So far I have found small 3" c-clamps to be great, and also the quick release clamps like these are probably the most useful and user friendly:
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-quick-release-bar-clamp-62239.html


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## firecat1981

I'm waiting on a feather board for the table saw to come then I'll cut some chine samples.

I got around to putting on the first layer of the rub rail on the port side. 
20180130_143011 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After that I decided to start getting ready for fairing. I talked about converting an old sander to a power fairing board a while back, well here you go. Simple, crude, and effective. I bought a cheap roll of 2.75" x 25' 80 grit, and built the board 18" long. I stapled some small chunks of sand paper under the blocks so the paper wont slip out. This should make fairing go a bit faster. 

20180130_143037 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180130_143050 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Hoyt_Dow

You can't own too many clamps.


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## firecat1981

So I'm still going back and forth on the chines and how to do it. I'm not liking any of the Fir I see, so many knots and splits that I'll need to splice many pieces to make it work. SYP is an option still, but I'd rather use cedar because it soaks in the resin better imo. I haven't found any spruce that was worth using.

All that being said, I was in Lowes the other day grabbing some stuff for the house and this molding caught my eye.

















Now I know it's pine, but it's damn near perfect height and width. It's a little taller and wider then I was looking for, but it would save me a bit of work and has a perfect radius on the edge to lay the 6oz over. Thoughts?

Also do you guys think this profile would work out, or would it be better to sand the face flat?


----------



## LWalker

I would sand the face flat or slightly concave so the water flows smoothly over the surface. You could run it thru the table saw, but I would not attempt to run a whole stick. Stop before you get to the end.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

That molding isn't structural; it's a space occupying mass. The manufacturers usually splice together clean grained sections to make the length which means you don't have to. It will save you work, so use it. Just use it fast. It will warp quickly. I'd use it as is and shape the face with epoxy to your specs after it is taped down.

Nate


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## firecat1981

I got the last layer of the rub rail on today. I'm not sure why, but this is always the point in my builds that I feel the hull goes from plywood to boat.

20180205_122710 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Every single one of my builds has had blood sweat and tears put into them, literally. Just a drop soaked into the plywood this time. 

20180205_121837 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I can no longer stall any decisions on what I'm going to do about the reverse chines. I have some leveling of a few low spots to fix, but after that I'll do the chines and get ready to fair. I've got one more place to look for decent wood tomorrow if the weather holds out.


----------



## jonrconner

I like your sander idea, clamshell moulding,a bad shortcut unless you completely remachine it which defeats any labor saving. With a left tilt table saw it would be easier to start from scratch.
JC


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## CurtisWright

You really need a 4' board if your going to get it fair. 18" isn't going to cut it. if you want to check, turn off the lights in the garage and shine a flashlight down the side to look for shadows.


----------



## CurtisWright

Also, I would build the boat first and run it. Don't finish the bottom to perfect yet. You can glue on different types of wood chines and run the boat to see how they perform. If you don't like then peel/grind them off. Once you have settled on the perfect ones, flip it over, glass them in and finish the hull. This is what most of the builders do.


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## firecat1981

If I were building a plug for production I could see doing that, but I've never seen anyone throughout the years I've been following builds finish a boat, rig it out fully for running, derig, and flip it just to finish the bottom. If we were talking about a little tiller skiff then I could understand somewhat, but a built out center console, not gonna happen.

As far as 18" not being enough, sorry very much disagree. I've worked in several body and paint shops over the years, including one that did limo conversions and never did I see a 4ft board. Maybe a 2ft, but 16" is the standard.

Plus I'm really not going for show boat status here. The bottom will have a coating and the sides just need to be good enough.


----------



## CurtisWright

Oh, thought this was a tiller skiff. Was thinking you would just flip it, clamp a motor on and run it. Yea, for complex curves, an 18" high density foam block does the trick. I tried fairing both of mine with a 2' wood block and 3M airfile paper. I couldn't get it to pass the light/shadow test. Had to go to a 4' piece of aluminum tubing, but I was trying to make molds off of them.


----------



## firecat1981

Yeah if I were going for a production type finish I would spend a lot more time on it, but a 10ft finish is ok by me. I tend to be hard on my boats so scratches are a way of life.
If it were a tiller skiff I migh consider a sea trial prior to finishing out the rest, but I'm going with a CC and 60hp zuke on this one.


----------



## firecat1981

I didn't have much time today after running around and an anniversary lunch with the wifey. I decided to redo the drain plug tube I made before, the old one would have worked, but it was a little loser then I wanted.

20180206_154048 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After that, I started to level the hull before fairing. I had those 2 spots I added glass to before, but they still needed more work. I used a mix of milled fibers, wood flour and fumed silica to skim coat it, similar to my bonding adhesive. The next layers will be fairing compound, but after I put the chines on.

20180206_171613 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## 89wheelinyj

I've got no advice to give, but wanted to say I've been enjoying reading and seeing your progress.


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## firecat1981

89wheelinyj said:


> I've got no advice to give, but wanted to say I've been enjoying reading and seeing your progress.


Thank you, I hope to keep progressing.


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## firecat1981

A frustrating bit of a set back that I'm working through. The whole uneven panel thing is coming back to bite me. Nothing earth shattering, but I gotta fix it. I thought I had just 2 low spots, after checking again I found 2 more. These areas impact the chine so I can't move forward with installing the reverse chines until it's fixed.

20180208_110856 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I filled the areas with stacked layers of biaxial and woven cloth. I'll then add some filler later before fairing material.


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## Finn Maccumhail

firecat1981 said:


> I'm waiting on a feather board for the table saw to come then I'll cut some chine samples.
> 
> I got around to putting on the first layer of the rub rail on the port side.
> 20180130_143011 , on Flickr
> 
> After that I decided to start getting ready for fairing. I talked about converting an old sander to a power fairing board a while back, well here you go. Simple, crude, and effective. I bought a cheap roll of 2.75" x 25' 80 grit, and built the board 18" long. I stapled some small chunks of sand paper under the blocks so the paper wont slip out. This should make fairing go a bit faster.
> 
> 20180130_143037 , on Flickr
> 
> 20180130_143050 , on Flickr


How did you go about attaching the sander to the fairing board?


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## firecat1981

I took off the pad. Drilled holes in the ply matching the screws I removed, countersinking them, and used longer screws. That's it, a pretty down and dirty tool.


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## anytide

please hurry... gettin hot out.


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## firecat1981

2 steps forward, one step back.


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## makin moves

firecat1981 said:


> 2 steps forward, one step back.


Just gives you more satisfaction and pride when you over come them! Keep up the good work!


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## firecat1981

I'm slowly working out most of the leveling issues. Some of them I'm simply just not going to worry to much about since not many guys look at the bottom of a boat. Also I'm not going to have a showroom paint job as the bottom will be coated with a HBN/epoxy mix.

Now I finally made a decision on the reverse chines. I went out and actually found a 2x6 of spruce that was nice and straight. It didn't work out. I'm guessing there are 3 or 4 species of spruce commonly used and this variety just shredded when the router hit it, and it was so soft the clamp left a deep impression. So I went back to pine. I cut the board flush at 90* then routed the bottom edge with a round over. Think I ended up cutting at 23* which yielded about 1 5/8" x 5/8". I'm pretty happy with it, I'll cut the rest in the next few days.

20180209_140710 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I just want to take a moment to say thanks to everyone here. I have a mirror build thread at 3 locations, and one is turning into a bit of drama. In my youth I on occasion got fired up over certain threads, but in my wiser years I see now it's just not worth it. I appreciate passion, but this is just the internet. A place to learn, chat, share ideas, but in the end if someone doesn't like your ideas or advise it's no reason to be rude or cause issues. It's pretty easy to just not click on the thread and move on with your life. So thank you to all who keep this place pretty cool.


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## yobata

Any updates?


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## firecat1981

Nothing major. I've had a host of things getting in my way. I fixed the reverse chines on the bottom of the port side and it wasn't to my liking. So I recut a bunch of wood, but I think I have it sorted. 

Really I've been learning how to make a cheap table saw, and cheaper roller stands cut consistently.


----------



## makin moves

firecat1981 said:


> Nothing major. I've had a host of things getting in my way. I fixed the reverse chines on the bottom of the port side and it wasn't to my liking. So I recut a bunch of wood, but I think I have it sorted.
> 
> Really I've been learning how to make a cheap table saw, and cheaper roller stands cut consistently.


I have a inexpensive table saw your more than welcome to borrow. I make a trip to Tampa once a week. Also Home Depot has a really nice one you can rent for under 50 bucks for the day. Might be a good option if you set yourself up to make all your cuts in one day.


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## firecat1981

Thanks bud, but I got it sorted out. I made some guides and a feather board and was able to get close enough for government work.


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## firecat1981

Like I said, not much to report. I'm going to try and put these chines on in the next few days. I cut the strips out of the cleanest wood I could find, which was hard, shaped the tips a bit, and spliced the parts with waterproof wood glue on a 45 degree angle. 

Clamped together for shaping.
20180221_133754 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Boards being spliced together.
20180223_122640 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm not sure exactly how long I'll make them now. I was originally going around 13ft, but think that might be a bit long so I might back it off to 11-12ft.


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## firecat1981

Finished joining the chine sections together, then I kerfed it every 4" about half way through. It worked out pretty good I think this time.

20180226_114041 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180226_153650 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I ended up shortening them to 140". I think they look better this way. Based on other pics I've seen the ends should still be sticking out just a bit at rest. Crappy pic, but it's all I can do with the afternoon sun.

20180226_153942 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Once I fill, fillet, glass, and do some light fairing I think they will be pretty smooth.


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## firecat1981

I bonded the chines to the hull with an epoxy slurry, a bit looser then my standard thickened filler. Reason I did this is Because the edges are so thin I can't torque down to hard, so the thinner mix squeezes out easier and will bond just the same.

Here's where we are.
20180227_112810 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

A view from the back so you can get a better idea of how they will work.
20180227_112834 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180227_112959 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Once I shape and fill them they will look much smoother. I gotta take a break next week to do some yard work, but after that it's time for some work boat finish fairing and painting.


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## yobata

Are you going to cover them with cloth, and if so, which variety? Also, after (if) you cover them with cloth, are you going to "sharpen" them?


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## firecat1981

Not sure if I'll sharpen them again after. I've seen a lot of guys sharpening chines and transoms on their builds the last few years, but it really doesn't do much for performance unless you are going fast.

I'm going to cover them with 6oz woven, maybe 2 layers.


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## firecat1981

I'm fairly happy with how it worked out now. I filled in the edges and screw holes as best I can.

20180302_104519 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It took a lot more thickened resin then I thought. I'm glad I used the wood as the bulk. I've shaped and rounded the edges now, and it's ready for glassing.

20180302_124530 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180302_124537 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I started working on the rubrails to get then ready for glassing, but realized they aren't very even. So I'll wait until the hull is flipped and the decks are on before deciding if it needs much fixing.


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## topnative2

I admire your skills.


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## firecat1981

Thanks, but it' less skill, and more "goof it up until it works ok" at this point, lol.


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## firecat1981

Not much progress, but I did manage to glass the chines. I might add another layer, not sure yet. I will hopefully start fairing next week.

20180305_142044 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## GoGataGo52__20

Man that looks sick, so the idea is that helps the boat cut better through the water? Does it help prevent the boat sliding in turns as well?


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## firecat1981

The idea is it takes the water being pushed out the sides while underway and redirects it out and down. It helps keep spray out of your face while running a chop, and helps with lift and tracking too.


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## firecat1981

I'm pretty much done with glass work now on the outside. I decided to add a second layer of glass to the chines since they are made of wood this will give them plenty of protection. If a strike happens hard enough to damage them they will be easy enough to repair, but they will act as a sacrificial part to keep the damage away from the hull. They will get coated in HBN/Epoxy too.

20180314_142913 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180314_142811 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Next I turned my attention to the drain plug tube I made earlier. I'm glassing it in now so I can fair it smooth along with that whole area.

I think I marked it straight? LOL, it's kind of hard to tell after applying thickened epoxy to level the hull. It might be 1/16" off which is good enough.

20180313_170739 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I am just gluing it in on the top right now, I'll go back later and fill the area around it. This turned out to be the best way to keep it in place. I left it proud by about 1/4" this was I can fair all around it, then grind it level when done.

20180314_142636 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

Time to itch. Sanded the bottom to get it ready for the first coat of fairing compound.

20180316_131703 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

I got a bit of fairing compound spread out, just a skim coat to start. I think I'm mixing it to thick, I went through about 1/3 my mix just to do this. I have some left over west systems fairing mix and some glass microspheres I can use once I run out. Hopefully it will be enough, if not I'll order some more soon.

20180317_145837 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I think I'm going to roll on a neat coat or two to the sides to get them closer prior to fairing them. I do have a wave on each side toward the stern where I tried to fix some gaps, nothing major, but I need to decide if I will fix it or not.


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## firecat1981

Fairing is fun....right?

I sanded the bottom with the 5" orbital sander, it really did smooth it out a lot, but I wouldn't call it faired. 

20180319_111642 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180319_111705 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I applied a second, slightly thicker, coat of fairing mix. Here it is applied to the port side. 

20180319_142522 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also decided to fix a few spots on the sides. Hopefully it all works out.

20180319_173504 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

I started using a long board today, and quickly abandoned it. I used less of the fairing mix this go around which helped it lay out smoother, but it was much harder to sand. I also realized that the bottom just needs to be somewhat fair, since it will be coated in HBN/Epoxy later on.

On a side note 2 gadgets I rigged up ended up not working out. Hooking up the shop vac to the orbital sander had an odd effect, it worked, but it slowed the rotation down a lot so I took it off. Also the long power board I made turned out to be to powerful oddly enough. it was hard to control and wore my hands out. I'll use just the board to smooth out a few spots, but for the bulk I'll just used the orbital sander.

Here's the second coat of fairing compound sanded down.
20180320_113020 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I then started working on the transom. I didn't go all the way to the top of the transom because I'll need to wrap glass over the edge later on.
20180320_125747 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also spot filled a few last spots, after this the bottom is ready for priming, but I'll wait until I'm done with the sides.
20180320_125757 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Cut Runner

Keep on keepin on brother


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## firecat1981

I'm trying, but it's been taxing lately.

I decided this is the best location for the bow eye.

20180322_124811 https://www.flickr.com/photos/1444494[email protected]/, on Flickr

I flattened out a spot for it, I'm not trying to embed it into the hull, just keep the plate from rocking, the gaps left on the sides will be filled with 5200 after. I didn't do this on my last hull, and the bow eye was a pain to install and slightly crooked.

20180322_131958 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The hull bottom is about ready for high build primer. I'm still working on the sides and transom.

20180323_133149 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I thought this was interesting. Here is the plug I cut out to install the drain plug tube. I brushed some left over resin on it so you can see it better. You can see the 2 layers of 3/8" ply, the grayish line in between them is the thickened epoxy, and then they 4 overlapping layers of biaxial equaling about 1/8".

20180325_171619 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm still working on fairing. It has been a slower process then I hoped. The biaxial takes a lot more to fill and smooth then the cloth I've used in the past. I've ran out of microballoons, and am now using glass microspheres. Part of the slow down is me, I have a bit of carpel tunnel syndrome and the mixing, spreading, and sanding all take a toll so I'm having to do smaller areas as a time. It also limits my ability to use the fairing board so I'm making due with the orbital sander as best I can. Between that and my work schedule, and the kids, the project is slowing more then I'd like. I think it will speed back up once I get to the high build primer stage.


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## Smackdaddy53

Very interesting, I have enjoyed the build! Lots and lots of work.


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## firecat1981

Way more work then I anticipated to get a more or less work boat finish. Using biaxial as the design calls for with nothing on top makes finishing way harder. I'm going to order some peel ply for the interior.


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## Cut Runner

Sometimes learning the hard way is the best way.. if my memory serves me i highly recommended the use of finish cloth or peel ply?


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## firecat1981

You may have, I've heard it from a few, but last time I tried I ended up goofing more then helping workin solo trying peel ply. In the future I'll modify my plans and go another route. Maybe cover everything with a layer of 6-9oz like my last boat, or ditch the biaxial all together for a few layers of heavier cloth.


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## CurtisWright

Keep on going. You are in the suck now, but but it will all be worth it.


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## Cut Runner

I agree with Curtis. This is the worst stage of a build, peel ply or not. I take that back, inside fairing is worse lol


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## firecat1981

The inside will be easier I hope. The majority of the biaxial will be under the sole, the decks and all will be woven, and much of it is getting salt shaker non skid. I will be ordering peel ply for parts of the interior to try out again.


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## firecat1981

Here's some more boring fairing pics, lol. I am now using microspheres instead of microballoons. They are white and somewhat translucent versus clay colored and opaque.

a thin coat of Phenolic Microballoon mix applied.
20180326_103653 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Sanded down 
20180326_123324 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

A thin coat of glass microsphere mix applied.
20180326_103703 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Sanded down
20180326_123316 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Those were just the first weave filling coats. Now comes the thicker coats prior to the primer phase.
20180326_143120 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I smoothed out the transom too and leveled the drain tube. it needs some touching up, but it's not far off.
20180326_123909 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## AMiller

This is probably my favorite thread on here. Keep up the amazing work.


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## GoGataGo52__20

Looks so good man, you got some skills no doubt


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## firecat1981

Thanks guys, I'm just aiming for a 10ft paint job. It's been a busy week with the holidays and spring break and all. After some more fairing I had a few more spots that needed attention.

20180331_110521 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After that I had to take a break for a few days. It was time to play with the kids. We went out to Ft. DeSoto Park, cruised around, did some fishing, hit the sand bar, and got lunch at Billy's stone crab. For you guys who have never been to the park it's a great place to take a trip to. It has the biggest boat ramp I've ever seen! You can literally launch 25+ boats at a time.

My sons first fish! He's 2.5yrs old.
20180401_091026 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The kids playing at the sand bar.
20180401_111457 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Today I got back to work. I did the final rough fairing. It's time for primer now.

20180403_124639 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180403_124650 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180403_124730 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The dog is sick, so the primer might have to wait until tomorrow, but I'm getting closer.


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## makin moves

Good job on the first fish dad!


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## firecat1981

Well the primer did not go on as thick as I hoped. It rolls on smooth and I really like the water clean up, but it's not really what I would call high build compared to ones I've used in the past.

Here it is after the first coat.
20180404_111113 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

And the second coat. I added a little bit of microspheres and it worked better, I'll do the same on the future coats.
20180404_154503 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180404_154542 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So now it's time to think about the paint. I may just paint the bottom few inches prior to flipping her, I did this on the last boat and it made my life way easier cause it would be hard to cleanly tape the bottom edge after the flip. 
So I'm using a semi custom paint, kinda. I wanted to use interlux perfection cause I'm familiar with their products, but their color selection kinda stinks. I was looking for an ice blue, so I will have to make my own. I did a test a while back by adding phthalo blue pigment to some a qt of white paint. I liked the results so that's what I'll be going with.

It's hard to tell the difference, but adding 2cc's made it what I like, and it's easily reproducible.
20180404_155858 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

I did a guide coat after a second coat and hand sanded the whole boat. There were quite a few issues I found so I went and fixed then up a bit. Again I'm not going for perfection here as I plan to coat the bottom with HBN/epoxy, which isn't as smooth as paint and can hide a lot.

20180406_141738 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180407_115549 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After 2 more coats of primer. I had some pinholes left after so I made some spot putty with the leftover primer and microspheres. it seems to have worked well. I've used more then 80oz of primer to get to this point so I think I'll need to order more to finish the boat.

20180407_172256 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I hope to start coating the bottom in the next few days.


----------



## firecat1981

Well if you ever want to see all your imperfections just slap on a coat of something shiny, lol. It's good enough and it's the bottom that no one ever sees.

I did the first coat of HBN/epoxy right before the rain and hail moved in. Well it doesn't coat near as well as graphite, but I kinda figured it wouldn't. It's more like a neat coat with a milky tint, even after adding a bit of white pigment. I used about a 30% mix of the HBN. It's a finer grind then the graphite and mixed easily after sifting. I'll add more pigment on the next round.

If it doesn't improve I might mix the HBN and graphite to do a light gray. I just didn't want another black bottom.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm basically doing 2 steps forward, and 1 step back, but still forward overall. I called system three and they confirmed the primer should not be used as a high build. Which explains why even sanding with 220 grit I was burning right through it after a few coats. I decided I just needed to move on so I tried to apply the HBN/Epoxy. 

After 2 coats with white pigment added it was still very much transparent. The picture doesn't show a lot because the garage is closed, but trust me you see everything under it, including the gray tint of the primer.
20180410_164936 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So what to do now? Do I put on another 2 coats to be disappointed again, or do I change course? I change course and come up with a new plan. I sanded down the coating, not completely, but I probably took down 2/3rds of it in many spots.
20180412_124154 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I didn't want to do a black bottom again cause I didn't think it would go well with my color scheme. I thought the offwhite of the HBN would be great, but it doesn't really tint the epoxy like the graphite does. Soooooo, I have leftover graphite from the last boat, I also have blue and white pigment. After some consideration and input from the wife I came up with an idea. 
20180412_135946 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It covered well, and I dig the color. I used old tylenol syringes I stole from my kids medicine cabinet so I could be uniform and accurate. 9oz of epoxy 7cc's of phenol blue, and 4cc's of white pigment. It needs another coat, but I'll be able to move on soon.


----------



## yobata

That color looks great!!


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## firecat1981

Thanks. It hides a lot of mess ups too, lol


----------



## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> Thanks. It hides a lot of mess ups too, lol


Can you tell me which brand/type of pigment you used?

I would be temped to make the sides that color too


----------



## firecat1981

The sides and top will be ice blue-ish, with off-white nonskid.

The pigment is from FGCI. It's compatible with all resins I believe.


----------



## firecat1981

Lol, you guys ever have a project that the more you touch, the more you seem to damage?

I was rolling on the second coat and saw some spots afterwards, due to a poorly lit garage, that needed touch ups. Well a smart man would say I'll just wait and do a touch up coat in a few hours. An impatient man says I have left over epoxy still in the pan so let's fix it now. I ended up introducing a tone of bubbles, and trying to fix them I made it worse. We'll see how it looks in a few hours, but I think wet sanding and recoating some areas might be in my future.


----------



## yobata

I have seen where people use a heat gun (on low) about 10" away from the surface to take out bubbles, just quick sweeping passes. It works pretty well! Try it on a scrap piece first...


----------



## Sublime

This build is awesome. I've watched a few of these going together. I have some dumb questions.

This is the hard chine version vs the rounded chine correct? 

When you have a guy on the front and one on the back, the bow will be completely wet (no slap) right?

What is the freeboard compared to a Glades Skiff?

Could it be made as self bailing?

Thanks


----------



## firecat1981

yobata said:


> I have seen where people use a heat gun (on low) about 10" away from the surface to take out bubbles, just quick sweeping passes. It works pretty well! Try it on a scrap piece first...



I tried the heat gun, it took out the bubbles, but can't get rid of the orange peel effect. It's ok, I might just leave it. Ugly still protects right.


----------



## firecat1981

Sublime said:


> This build is awesome. I've watched a few of these going together. I have some dumb questions.
> 
> This is the hard chine version vs the rounded chine correct?
> 
> When you have a guy on the front and one on the back, the bow will be completely wet (no slap) right?
> 
> What is the freeboard compared to a Glades Skiff?
> 
> Could it be made as self bailing?
> 
> Thanks


This is a hard chine boat. I think your thinking of the FS18 (flats stalker) which is like a glades skiff. This is the FS17 (fast skiff), the version I'm building is more like a mini bay boat, the bow might always be out of the water a bit unless a big boy is upfront.

Freeboard on this is significantly more then a glades skiff/fs18. I think it's like 16" stern and like 28" in the bow. This boat is made to cross open waters with a built in reserve safety factor. That being said the hull is self bailing.


----------



## Sublime

You are correct. Was getting this confused with the FS18.


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## firecat1981

The FS18 uses the same building method, and can be made self bailing easily.


----------



## Cut Runner

I like the bottom color! Reminds me of classic contenders with the dark blue bottom, white hull sides. Looks really good with ice blue hullsides too.


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## DuckNut

Mixing in titanium dioxide will turn your mix white - for future reference.


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## firecat1981

Yes but it won't turn it opaque without an amount over the max recomendation, that's what is in the pigment. For future reference I'm not sure I'll ever do another project. I'm in hell right now. I have applied and sanded off the bottom coats 5 times now trying to get it to look as decent as my last few projects, just not black. I've burnt up a ton of epoxy between this and fairing that just was not necessary. This boat was supposed to be done by now, and ready for both our summer vacations, that's all shot now and my wife is pretty upset too. I'm so unhappy with the progress that I'm really considering abandoning it, and starting over in a few years.


----------



## yobata

Noooo! Don't Roscoe this thing lol

I think the bottom looks great! Flip it and work on the inside. You should be able to paint the sides later still. Maybe working on the inside will be more rewarding and you will get reinvigorated to finish??


----------



## makin moves

You will never see the bottom. Press on brother! Don't get discouraged.


----------



## Chad Cohn

Think of it like your car, shoes, etc. No one really cares how the bottom looks. As long as what the eye can see is good to go than it's all gravy. Trust me I'm a nut about the details but sometimes you have to just realize that some things are jut going to be what they are. I'm in agreement with several here that think the bottom is sharp as a razor and badass. To quote Joe Dirt "Keep on keeping on" and finish this sucker!!!!!


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## firecat1981

I'll keep going for a bit more, but I have this taking up the garage, and my skiff already in storage, so I'm very tempted to junk it and go buy a boat for less then I already spent and be fishing tomorrow. Because of how this has gone we've only been on the water once since October.

I'm going to try once more with the bottom, and however it turns out... 

Thing is guys, we are supposed to be proud of our projects, and with everything that has happened with this one I'm just not feeling that great about it. The flaws might seem minor to you guys, but this was supposed to be a much nicer build then my others, and I'm like $1500 over my original budget so now I can't even get the trailer I wanted. I told my wife I'll most likely finish it just to get done. Then after we move to a new house I might build a similar boat, using my techniques and supplies instead of the designers, then junk this one.


----------



## makin moves

https://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/boa/d/1996-archer-craft-186-flats/6565626498.html here is a project if you deserve to switch gears


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## firecat1981

I wouldn't want another project if I do buy a boat. The point of going that route would be to get back on the water with my family. I'm going to push on, if everything goes smoothly after the flip I'll be happy, but I'll need to rush some stuff so I may have to simplify the layout a lot.

I thought I had the epoxy graphite done. Went out to look at it this morning and while far from perfect it was livable. Until I realized for some reason while the bottom was fairly smooth, the edges and sides all came out really rough. This wouldn't be an issue, but that's where I planned the tape line to go. I just put down another coat, I think it will be the last one.


----------



## firecat1981

Well, as per usual I screwed it up worse trying to fix it. I put on some more mix, rolled and tipped it out. It was looking nice. Checked on it 2 hours later after it gelled, still looks nice. 4 hours later and all of a sudden it developed drip marks, which is a worse situation then if I left it. 

The definition of insanity.......

The kicker is, if I just kept on with the HBN and did 5-6 coats maybe I would have been long done by now. My wife is ready to kill me, im near 50% over budget, and our summer vacation plans are ruined thanks to all these delays. If I can't get it to flipping stage by next week my wife wants me to cut bait.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Don’t lose hope, I’ve felt this way with some of my projects and I always figure something out. You have a lot of time in!


----------



## Gatorgrizz27

Flip that sucker over, screw some bench seats across it, throw a battery, bilge pump, portable gas tank and cooler in it and go enjoy the summer. Come back and finish it properly when you’ve got some down time. If you rush it now it will piss you off every time you look at it, same if you mothball it.


----------



## Cut Runner

I feel your pain brother, i really do. This october i will be 3 YEARS into my 23'formula rebuild... my girlfriend and i are itching to go to the bahamas, i mean we are really missing it...
i started the project with the mentality that it will take as long as it needs to to be done right, and thats the pace ive kept. Problem is i figured 1-2 years max at that pace. Were coming up on 3 and i can almost forsee it being 4 before its going to the islands. Its hard to pour money and thousands and thousands of hours grinding etc to not be able to use it yet and worse off thats time i could have spent with family. I just keep telling myself "for the greater good..."


----------



## firecat1981

Thanks guys. This is a hard place to find myself, as I've encouraged many on this site over the last decade or so. No mater what I'll be pissed looking at the imperfections on the boat, but I can learn to live with them. Cut, the only difference is your delay will end with you having a perfect boat if I know you, where mine might be a just a stop gap at this point.

So it's been a bit since my last post, and I've been hard at work trying to sort it all out. Some nights as late as 3am. I didn't want to post again until I made progress one way or the other. So on my last post I said I developed drip marks on my edges. Well some were quite severe and I can't tell you why it happened. 2 hours after application everything looked ok and it was still tacky but gelled. 4 hours later drip marks? I mixed this batch consistent with all the others, but I must have done something wrong. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have done it the other way.

20180424_093922 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So now what to do? I had to grind back the drips, problem is grinding hard epoxy drips on top of softer primer and fairing material doesn't go so well. I ended up ruining all the fairing work I did along that area. 

I had to make a choice here. Either I needed to back track weeks and start the whole process over again, or just move on and live with the massive amount of imperfections. I chose to move on. I established my tape line and reprimed.

20180424_103239 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180425_085643 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After sanding it and applying the first coat of paint I decided to sand again. Funny enough the Interlux Perfection acted better as a high build primer then the System Three. I was able to work out some issues, but many of the imperfections remained. I rolled and tipped a few more coats on. I got plenty of dust in it as well, but the end result is more or less livable. One thing that came out nice was the tape line. I used the best 3m automotive masking tape I could find and it shows. 

20180428_092304 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180428_092332 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180428_092408 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also like how the color came out. I ended up mixing 2.5cc's of the blue pigment into the interlux perfection and it's just a hair darker then ice blue. it goes nicely with the navy blue bottom. 

The boat is more or less ready to flip. It will have to wait though, as I am about to leave on a slightly bigger boat, give or take 800ft, for a few days.


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## bryson

Looks great! Glad you're still moving forward on this -- I'm enjoying watching it progress, and learning a lot.


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## firecat1981

Thanks, learn from my mistakes! Like I said I don't sugarcoat things, I'll post every goof up along with the victories.


----------



## BadKnotGuy

Kanter's Law: Everything looks like a failure in the middle. That's actually a management philosophy re: change but it applies to boat building too. I built a GF16 and remember thinking many times "why didn't I buy the damn tracker?". In the end though I was happy with how it turned out. On the last day I swore to myself never again. Then I started to use the boat. Two years down the road and I am planning the next one. Oh and I ended up using gator glide because I could never get the bottom fair on its own.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

BadKnotGuy said:


> Kanter's Law: Everything looks like a failure in the middle. That's actually a management philosophy re: change but it applies to boat building too. I built a GF16 and remember thinking many times "why didn't I buy the damn tracker?". In the end though I was happy with how it turned out. On the last day I swore to myself never again. Then I started to use the boat. Two years down the road and I am planning the next one. Oh and I ended up using gator glide because I could never get the bottom fair on its own.


GatorGlide isn’t horrible, I built a boat 4 years ago and coated the bottom with it and it’s still fishing Louisiana now.


----------



## Cut Runner

Every person that ever built a boat made a mistake somewhere! Dont knock yourself for it. Thats the good thing about fiberglass, grind it off and start over!
As much as we all would perfer a laser straight blueprinted bottom, its not such a drastic nessecity on these smaller skiffs, hell i never wetsanded and buffed the bottom on the hobie its still got quite a bit of orangepeel from how it shot out the gun , nary a soul has noticed it or said a peep


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## Cut Runner

That tapeline looks killer btw what did you end up using?


----------



## firecat1981

BadKnotGuy said:


> Kanter's Law: Everything looks like a failure in the middle. That's actually a management philosophy re: change but it applies to boat building too. I built a GF16 and remember thinking many times "why didn't I buy the damn tracker?". In the end though I was happy with how it turned out. On the last day I swore to myself never again. Then I started to use the boat. Two years down the road and I am planning the next one. Oh and I ended up using gator glide because I could never get the bottom fair on its own.


I've heard this before, and I would agree with the philosophy. Like I said if this was my first build I'd just be happy it floats, but I was hoping to improve dramatically on the quality from last time, it's just not working out that way. I hope I'll be happy in the end, but if not I know the steps to avoid along the way now and I'll build a new hull and transfer the running gear over in a year or 2. Then work on the next, bigger plan.



Cut Runner said:


> Every person that ever built a boat made a mistake somewhere! Dont knock yourself for it. Thats the good thing about fiberglass, grind it off and start over!
> As much as we all would perfer a laser straight blueprinted bottom, its not such a drastic nessecity on these smaller skiffs, hell i never wetsanded and buffed the bottom on the hobie its still got quite a bit of orangepeel from how it shot out the gun , nary a soul has noticed it or said a peep


Lol, I've ground most of it off by now, I had to order more. 



Cut Runner said:


> That tapeline looks killer btw what did you end up using?


For the tape, or the paint? The tape is 3m automotive masking tape, not the cheap kind. The paint is Interlux Perfection snow white, that I customized with 2.5cc's of blue pigment.


----------



## firecat1981

All that said, It's time to flip! 

So I have to say even with the massive amount of issues I've ran into this build, I still love the overall design of the skiff. At this stage you really can't get an appreciation for it from looking at the bottom. I crawled under the boat to unscrew the transom and mark the frame locations to make it easier after the flip. While under there I sat for a minute looking around. First, whoever thinks this is a smallish 17footer may not have been on many skiffs in this class recently. At a 7ft(84") beam the hull looks much wider then most I've seen. Most production skiffs in this class are between 60-74". Now at the waterline she is narrow, but no more narrow then any other skiff I've looked at. 

One issue I noticed, well got a closer look at at least, is the rubrail/gunnel edge issue. It is more wavy then I thought. I'm not sure how I'm going to fix it just yet. I have some friends coming over Saturday morning to help me flip the boat onto the cradle. 

I bought 10 2x4's and that was barely enough because I figured out my original plan was not going to support the hull how I wanted. Another issue I didn't account for is the reverse chine makes it impossible to support the hull all the way to the chine like I planned. So this is what I ended up with.

I topped the supports with carpet, not really for scratches, but more as a gap filler on any uneven areas between the wood and hull. 
20180507_111148 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I ended up putting a support to mirror the frames for now. Up to frame B, and also longitudinal supports along where the stingers will be set. I used all the 2x4's to do this and about 80 screws. I added 7 ball bearing rollers to it also. I build a support to go under frame A if needed, but it's a more simple brace.
20180510_112340 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180510_112351 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## Gatorgrizz27

I’m a few steps behind you, just started working with the fairing compound today, but my plan was to paint the entire bottom and then flip the boat onto the trailer. Any reason that’s a bad idea?


----------



## firecat1981

I've got a few high spots with the rub rails, but since I ran both sides in the same manner they are symmetrical. It's not a big deal, but I can't address it until I'm putting the decks on later.

So I had a few friends come over last Saturday and we got the boat flipped. I dragged the whole rig out of the garage and the 4 of us including my wife picked it up and flipped it onto the cradle. It was easy to do except I had to use every bit of my 6'3" frame to clear the front of the strong back.

So I'm not sure if this is a good sign or not, but when we opened the garage to do everything we were met with this.

20180512_083053 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

We got his out of the way before we flipped the hull. Everything look ok on the inside, just a bit of cleanup to do.

20180512_152813 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180512_152841 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I added some additional support to the front after this pic. I also put it up on blocks until the stringers are it.

20180512_152920 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180512_152945 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Unfortunately I had to leave the morning after the flip due to a family issue, but I'm back now. I spent a little time today filling the holes and the large gaps around the edges and transom. I'll come back in a day or 2 to lay the fillets, and maybe tape the seams.


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## permitchaser

Corn snake?


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## Guest

Looking good, and that little red rat snake won’t hurt anything.


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## Pole Position

I know at times you've thought this project has been snake-bit, but damn----you dont need to turn it in to a reality show.


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## GoGataGo52__20

Red Rat is a good thing, taking care of the mice in the area.


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## Guest

GoGataGo52__20 said:


> Red Rat is a good thing, taking care of the mice in the area.


Looked like he’d been eatin’ well too.


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## firecat1981

He was a pretty big corn/red rat snake. Over 3 ft and fat. He was released unharmed to terrorize the local field mouse population.


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## firecat1981

Started working on the interior. I hate having to crawl inside it right now, but it's the only way to reach the middle. I needed to use one strap to pull the hull in about 1/2" or so to meet the frame, other then that it seemed pretty fair to the rest.

I filleted all the seams a few nights ago.

20180519_135244 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I then taped just the bow, because I wanted to try out some peel ply I have. It worked ok, but the weave is so open in the biaxial tape that it couldn't make it smooth. Also peel ply seems to work much better on outside edges, on the inside it slides around a lot.

20180519_201335 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Today I cleaned up some fillets and then taped the inside seams.

20180522_151331 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180522_151348 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I will hopefully try to get the inside glassed this week. Then I'll need to work on building the stringers.


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## Guest

She’s coming along!


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## Cut Runner

This rain has been tough. Good to see your still plugging along


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## firecat1981

I moved enough around in the garage so I can work in the rain. Only issue is the high humidity can bring out a little blush if I work into the night. A quick wipe with alcohol fixes that quick.


----------



## noeettica

Use _"everclear" _and you can take a little "Nip" now and then ...

Can't wait to see this thing on the water ...


----------



## Tx_Whipray

Be careful with the Everclear. Last time I took a few "nips" I had a severe allergic reaction....I broke out in a set of handcuffs.


----------



## EdK13

Tx_Whipray said:


> Be careful with the Everclear. Last time I took a few "nips" I had a severe allergic reaction....I broke out in a set of handcuffs.


After the marathon round trip from TX to IslaMarine- I could use some fire water about now.


----------



## EdK13

firecat1981 said:


> I moved enough around in the garage so I can work in the rain. Only issue is the high humidity can bring out a little blush if I work into the night. A quick wipe with alcohol fixes that quick.


Looks Great!


----------



## Tx_Whipray

EdK13 said:


> After the marathon round trip from TX to IslaMarine- I could use some fire water about now.


Did you drop her off at Isla? PM me the deets if you don't want to derail this thread.


----------



## firecat1981

I sanded down the tape and rolled on a slurry coat to help fill in the weave prior to bottom glass. I had ambitious plans, but they didn't quite work out. I was going to glass then whole bottom, however it is much more difficult then the exterior and took more time then I expected. So I could only finish one half. 
I laid out the glass then rolled up one side. As mentioned earlier this is really a 2 person job, so it didn't go as planned. The half I rolled up is pretty distorted now. I hope it can still be used, but the biaxial is harder to straighten out then woven. Here is the half I glassed yesterday.

20180525_124516 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I took longer then expected to wet out, I was using a roller to push around resin then a glass roller to smooth it down which worked great, but is a little slow. I used some scrap pieces as fillers up front. 

20180525_170704 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'll fill in the sides with 6oz woven after the floor is in. Good thing about the distortion is because it's under the sole no one will see it.


----------



## anytide

good name for that boat........ rat snake.


----------



## firecat1981

Well the glass was heavily distorted from rolling and unrolling it, but I got it done. I spent about an hour straitening the glass as best as I could. I had to cut a few areas and overlap them, but all in all it wasn't too bad. 

20180528_182016 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I glassed the transom as well, but here is where it got more interesting. I had to splice a few areas to get it all done, no big deal. However, it took every last drop of resin I had. I even had to turn over a bottle and hit it like a heinz 57 bottle. I made it, but I'll have to make a run Wednesday to get more resin.

20180528_182035 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

I'm working on sorting out the stringers now. I went back and redid the stringers based on frame measurements, and the cad measurements I got in the other thread. The result is the back 8ft of the stringers fit perfect, then the front starts to float a bit, but that's ok and easily filled in.

20180531_102300 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180531_103436 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So what I decided to do was cut out the first 2 parts and use them as patterns for the rest. I was routing them out with a straight bit, it was getting dull but still did the job. Then all of a sudden I see sparks and a bit of flame. The roller on the bit failed. I had to run out and get another one.

20180531_161403 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180531_161454 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I got the stringers all glued up today, I built them 1" taller then the plans, that also made them a few inches longer, but I cut ends off to finish them a bit nicer in the forward compartment.

20180602_104953 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I made some quick support blocks to keep them lined up.

20180602_152737 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'll drop them in within the next few days, then I can finally determine the layout.


----------



## Guest

Comin right along!


----------



## firecat1981

Here are the stringers tacked in place. The blue tape are marking from me trying to figure out some measurements and layouts.

20180606_104052 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I realized something that I feel is pretty cool. I can fit a 5 gallon bucket under the front deck. This is not normal for a small boat, but presents a great opportunity for storing cast nets and anchors.

20180606_104229 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here you can see the filling I had to do under the stringers. I've leveled it all out and can finish glassing now. The back half of the stringer fit perfectly, the front even though built to plans did not match, but it's worked it.

20180608_141432 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## GoGataGo52__20

Lookin good!


----------



## firecat1981

Not to much progress has been made. I had to bow out for a few days with family issues and a back injury, but I'm back at it. It is ridiculously hot out, so much so I went and bought a portable AC system for the garage. Well It sucks, it's only 8000 btu's which isn't enough to chill it out, but I didn't need it to be cold, I'd be happy if it could lower it to around 80. Well it was only able to lower it by about 2 degrees from outside, not enough for me to care so I'm returning it. 

The only thing I've really done is finished glassing the stringers. They are glassed and tabbed into the transom. I went the extra mile and used 6oz woven to cover the areas of the stringers that weren't covered by the tape. I hate the idea of any exposed wood (resin coated only) in an area that will be exposed to moisture often.

20180618_105155 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So here we go back to the stringer issues. I looked over many build threads and I can see a lot of people have had the same issue and just rolled with it. Some have had issues with the floor sloping forward and collecting water at rest. Well Because I went back to the drawing board and redid my stringers I think I'll be good. You can see in the previous post how much I had to fill the areas towards the bow. This is because I corrected the stern portion to be level with the baseline instead of sloping towards the bow. Long story short, it was more work, but I know it will work well and should drain no problem.

So now I HAVE to make layout decisions. I am finishing up some design work now and will start on the bulkheads in the next few days.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Nice work, looking great.


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## bryson

Thanks for sharing! I really like the 5 gallon bucket up front. I hate letting my anchor bang around in my front locker. I laid some foam down to help protect things, but a bucket would really do the trick. Think you might make a little landing pad for it so that it doesn't only contact the hull along the corners?


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## firecat1981

I was thinking not only a flat "landing pad" as you put it, but also a ring a few inches up to keep it in place.

I'm not sure if the 5 gallon is the best fit, so I'm looking for 3.5 gallon buckets to try out too.


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## firecat1981

Bryson, You also might want to look into a tool bag for your anchor. I have been using one for about 7 years, it's got a thick rubber bottom that keeps it from banging around. Mines falling apart now, but it was only like $12 when I got it.

So I think I've finally landed on what I'm going to do. Just in time to start cutting bulkheads. You'll notice I did not include a cooler in these mock ups. Reason is I can put a 50-70qt in 4 different locations. Under the leaning post, against the rear bulkhead, against the front bulkhead, or on the front deck, all depending on where I need the load once she is on the water.

FS17 Final 1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I mocked up a side view just to see how things layout. I'm pretty happy with it, I think it will work ok. The console isn't 100%, I just put the basic widths to show the location.

FS17 side https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

Started on the bulkheads yesterday in between rain storms. After trying to measure for an hour I realized the only way to do this right is to level the hull (adjust so the stringer tops are level on 2 axis). I spent about another hour with a car jack and different sized shims to get it close. After that it was much easier to measure. 

20180621_125906 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So a quick tip. When measuring with a ruler, make sure you are reading the right side (head smack!) I misread 16" for 20" on the forward bulkhead, luckily it's small enough I could use scrap to make it. The cut out is to access the bow lights, and trolling motor stuff. It's set low to make clearance for the front deck.

20180621_152435 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The rear bulkhead is what I was really shooting for. This allows me a solid point to measure everything off of going forward (console, livewell, lockers....

20180621_152428 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I tacked them in in a few spots with thickened epoxy. I'll finish filleting and taping them in a few days then keep going. I'll be able to start foaming soon.


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## yobata

I'm so glad you kept this build going, it is starting to take shape now! Great job


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## firecat1981

Yeah, I've still got reservations, but I'm glad I continued. The reservation is because I have a vacation next month that was built around this boat, but it won't be ready. I'll bring my other skiff, but it will handicap us a bit.


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## Guest

It’ll get there, she’s lookin good. I’ve always found that some delays make a better product. It gives me time to think things through a little and make changes before I finish then realize I should have done it differently. Embrace it, it’ll be a sweat skiff when done!


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## firecat1981

Thinking has taken up most of my time now. Today alone I measured, remeasured, guessed and still got some of it wrong, for nearly 3 hours before starting to make saw dust. Everything I'm doing now is a modification of the design, so the plans are pretty much out the window. I'm having to measure and build each part, and with that can come some challenges. 

So the tip of the day is to NEVER toss out your scraps! Save every extra piece of scrap plywood no matter how oddly shaped. A weird edge can be cut straight and used again. That said when I started this build I was going to order a few extra sheets of plywood just in case. Several guys advised I might be over ordering so I cut it back. Well I think it's going to be tighter then I would like once I'm done with the floor and decks. So lesson learned, you can never have to much supplies! With some creative drawing I was able to use scraps from my pile of toss aways for most of the floor frames. I still needed to cut into one of my remaining full sheets, but not to much.

20180626_151648 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here are frames being test fitted

20180626_153510 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here they are after final sanding and fitting them. I also cut the Front deck bulkhead and fitted it. everything will be tacked in and glassed in a few days.

20180627_150959 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I realized I goofed a little when making the frames. I forgot about under the console. Remember I raised the sole 1", and decided to use a portable 12 gallon tank instead of a below deck one. I'm also going with 2 batteries in the console for extended trolling motor ops. Between the tank and batteries that is a lot of weight on deck, So I decided to recess the batteries into the floor below the console. I have more then enough room to lower them 4" or more if I choose. That's 100lbs or so of static weight sitting at least 3" lower then the stock design, which will off set a little of the weight I've added or be similar to if the gas tank was below deck. The middle frame ran right through the area I needed, so I decided to stagger that frame so the center section is moved up to become the back of the shelf. I'll add a smaller support for the other end later.


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## firecat1981

So progress has been slow, but steady. I tacked in the front deck bulkhead and floor frames. Then I had to do a few passes getting them filleted due to a few goof ups and gaps I needed to fix. The largest was due to measuring the stringer slots an inch off on the bulkhead, no big deal, a little thickened resin cures all.

Tacked in place.

20180630_163041 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180630_163134 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Filleted. You can see how I offset the middle frame so I can sink the batteries. I'll tape them in in the next few days.

20180703_124516 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also picked up 1x2's for the floor supports. Once the outside stringers are done I can start pouring foam.


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## DuckNut

Is there any reason that your frames are not interlocked but rather butted? Ease I guess.


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## firecat1981

Well you have 2 choices when doing floor frames. To notch the stringers and interlock the frames with them, or just butt them up. I don't like the idea of cutting the most integral part of a boat, stringers, just to make it a bit easier to assemble. There is no advantage strength wise to either method as far as I know, plus I had to stagger the middle frame.


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## firecat1981

I was out at home depot looking at pvc pipes for chase tubes today. Here are the 1.5" electrical sweeps, I have large hands and you can see by comparison the sweeps are HUGE and the 2" are even bigger. They will work if need be, but I think they are heavy and the radius doesn't need to be so big. I think instead of using them I'm going to make my own sweeps from thin walled PVC. This way I can save weight and get it more compact.

20180705_084112 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I got a package in the mail today. No that's not grey PVC, those are fiberglass tubes that were suggested to me in another thread. They are a bit rough on the inside, but will work very nicely as scupper tubes.

20180705_132200 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also decided I can't finish designing the console until I have the helm. So I ordered a rotary no feed back steering kit, and a SS steering wheel to go with it. I used an extension cord to measure out the cable size as best I could. Came out to 12.5' so I rounded up.


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## Hoyt_Dow

Very nice project it is.


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## Guest

She’s comin along Firecat! You probably know but I’ll say it anyway in case someone else doesn’t. A heat gun works great to heat the pvc with for bending. If you take your time and heat it slowly you can put a sweep in the pipe and not have any glue joints or inside edges to hange on when you are pulling wires.


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## firecat1981

Thanks guys. 

I've heated and bent pvc before using the sand method, which works pretty well. I'm not sure where I'm going to run everything just yet. I may just run everything to the bilge and route it with wire loom from there. If not the controls and fuel line I'll need to do in atleast 2 parts to get twisted up through the starboard side.


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## Thomas Bryan

I am super impressed with your build. My nephew out in Montana turned me on to your build. You are doing an outstanding job. Glad you got over the bottom finsih and fairing blues and kept going. 
Personally I like the black graphite/epoxy bottom but I only did in on the wetting surfaces of the bottom on my FS14 build so you can not see it when it sits on the trailer. I will do the same thing with my FS17 which I am currently working on. I am documenting my progress on BBC forum under power boats ( FS17 in Steinhatchee ). I am getting ready to start on the fairing after fixing a few things I did not like from the original builder who built about 80% of the boat. Installed a keel and sharpening the chines and beefing up the bottom.

Was curious why you did not add a keel. I was advised by the guys on the forum, that it would be a good idea and I also had one on my FS14. 

Best regards and keep up the good work. Love your cradle design and I may build a new cradle to be similar to yours so when I flip it back over it has a little better support. 

Tom in Steinhatchee


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## firecat1981

Thanks Tom, I've seen your new build as well on bateau, looks like you might have found a good deal. I should have just stuck with the black bottom, or finished the white bottom. I've had a bunch of issues with the products I ordered, and honestly believe I would have finished the build months ago if I stuck to the supplies I like. It's all good, it will get done eventually.

I decided to not add a keel because I have the reverse chine to help with slow speed tracking. Jacques said if you have enough power then you don't need a keel on it, and I'll be slightly over powering it with a 60hp. Also I didn't want to increase draft anymore. As you can see this boat is being built out more then a typical FS17.

I haven't been able to work on it in a week, and leave for a vacation soon. After that it will be a push till the end. I just got the helm and steering wheel so I can mock up a console soon. I might change what I want to do with the leaning post after seeing an episode of Project: Dreamboat.


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## Thomas Bryan

firecat1981 said:


> Thanks Tom, I've seen your new build as well on bateau, looks like you might have found a good deal. I should have just stuck with the black bottom, or finished the white bottom. I've had a bunch of issues with the products I ordered, and honestly believe I would have finished the build months ago if I stuck to the supplies I like. It's all good, it will get done eventually.
> 
> I decided to not add a keel because I have the reverse chine to help with slow speed tracking. Jacques said if you have enough power then you don't need a keel on it, and I'll be slightly over powering it with a 60hp. Also I didn't want to increase draft anymore. As you can see this boat is being built out more then a typical FS17.
> 
> I haven't been able to work on it in a week, and leave for a vacation soon. After that it will be a push till the end. I just got the helm and steering wheel so I can mock up a console soon. I might change what I want to do with the leaning post after seeing an episode of Project: Dreamboat.


Was it the Engel cooler seat you saw. Interesting program I had never seen before. Thanks for the info.


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## firecat1981

It was on the 19ft cuda craft they did. The guy hated his leaning post cause the cooler was hard to open under it. So they removed it and installed a box that they just mounted a cooler on top of. The box had a slide out draw that acts as a tackle center.


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## Thomas Bryan

firecat1981 said:


> It was on the 19ft cuda craft they did. The guy hated his leaning post cause the cooler was hard to open under it. So they removed it and installed a box that they just mounted a cooler on top of. The box had a slide out draw that acts as a tackle center.


Yeah that is the one I saw as well. My local outfitter carries Engel coolers and I bought their baitwell cooler last week rather than mess around with plumbing for baitwell. This thing is the cats meow. I have an Engel 35 qt cooler which we have had for 4 or 5 years and it is great. Will see about doing the seat thing with a larger cooler as this was a good way to go. A leaning post can get expensive so why not go simple. Raised box will not be hard to build. Tackle lockers are not very expensive either.
Regards
Tom


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## Thomas Bryan

The deal I got on this boat was so good I could not pass it up. It was so cheap I do not want to post it here but will tell you it was the deal of the century. Having to fix a few things is no biggy. Okume cnc kit built by someone who worked at BBC with Joel Shine was the best ever. Was wondering where you are located?
Regards
Tom


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## firecat1981

I'm not looking at buying either a leaning post or a tackle locker, rather I would make them. I might even make the cooler, out of cedar strips for effect. 

A cooler bait well can work just fine for some baits, but for greenbacks/whiteboard I need a good amount of turnover. So I'll have a built in well under the rear deck.

I'm sure you got a great deal. I kinda miss Joel Shine, the BBC forum lost a ton of its expertise when he left. The new guys are really nice, but have no real technical knowledge.


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## DuckNut

FC, did Jacques drive him away? I know he left a while ago but never heard why. Joel is cool, Jacques is not so much.


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## Thomas Bryan

DuckNut said:


> FC, did Jacques drive him away? I know he left a while ago but never heard why. Joel is cool, Jacques is not so much.


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## Thomas Bryan

I am not sure why Joel left. Agree completely Joel knows his stuff and does fantastic work. He started his own company in the custom and repair business. I goggled him the other day to find out where he was.


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## firecat1981

DuckNut said:


> FC, did Jacques drive him away? I know he left a while ago but never heard why. Joel is cool, Jacques is not so much.


I don't know why he left, it was pretty sudden from what I remember. I don't have a personal issue with Jacques, I think the new staff rely on him to answer many questions that he might not be well suited for. I think that was the big difference between those 2, one is a designer, the other was a boat builder. A boat builder learns a lot through doing the projects and finding the flaws, a designer makes something he thinks will work out well, but usually doesn't see the outcome first hand.


----------



## DuckNut

Thomas Bryan said:


> I am not sure why Joel left. Agree completely Joel knows his stuff and does fantastic work. He started his own company in the custom and repair business. I goggled him the other day to find out where he was.


Yep. Doing basically the exact same thing as he was doing. Selling plans, supplies, and a few fiberglass pieces.


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## Thomas Bryan

Got a Engel 65 qt cooler today from my guys in Perry, Big Bend Outiftters. I am thinking a 12 inch high platform to mount it on will make a nice leaning post arrangement. Also picked up my trailer from them today. Aluminum I beam, torsion axle, led lights. Also bought a center console from them which Mike at Ugly boats had sitting around in the boat yard. It cleaned up pretty nice. Will figure out how to add pictures soon.


----------



## permitchaser

firecat1981 said:


> Thinking has taken up most of my time now. Today alone I measured, remeasured, guessed and still got some of it wrong, for nearly 3 hours before starting to make saw dust. Everything I'm doing now is a modification of the design, so the plans are pretty much out the window. I'm having to measure and build each part, and with that can come some challenges.
> 
> So the tip of the day is to NEVER toss out your scraps! Save every extra piece of scrap plywood no matter how oddly shaped. A weird edge can be cut straight and used again. That said when I started this build I was going to order a few extra sheets of plywood just in case. Several guys advised I might be over ordering so I cut it back. Well I think it's going to be tighter then I would like once I'm done with the floor and decks. So lesson learned, you can never have to much supplies! With some creative drawing I was able to use scraps from my pile of toss aways for most of the floor frames. I still needed to cut into one of my remaining full sheets, but not to much.
> 
> 20180626_151648 , on Flickr
> 
> Here are frames being test fitted
> 
> 20180626_153510 , on Flickr
> 
> Here they are after final sanding and fitting them. I also cut the Front deck bulkhead and fitted it. everything will be tacked in and glassed in a few days.
> 
> 20180627_150959 , on Flickr
> 
> So I realized I goofed a little when making the frames. I forgot about under the console. Remember I raised the sole 1", and decided to use a portable 12 gallon tank instead of a below deck one. I'm also going with 2 batteries in the console for extended trolling motor ops. Between the tank and batteries that is a lot of weight on deck, So I decided to recess the batteries into the floor below the console. I have more then enough room to lower them 4" or more if I choose. That's 100lbs or so of static weight sitting at least 3" lower then the stock design, which will off set a little of the weight I've added or be similar to if the gas tank was below deck. The middle frame ran right through the area I needed, so I decided to stagger that frame so the center section is moved up to become the back of the shelf. I'll add a smaller support for the other end later.


Make sure you can get to those batteries and pull them out. My 2/24v batteries are under my consol and they are a bear to get out


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## firecat1981

That shouldn't be an issue. I'm sinking them on a shelf which gives me more room to play above them, and I'm planning on a hatch on the front/seatback of the console. Maybe the side instead, we will see. I never understood why many consoles have the door below the helm, it seems like the worst place to actually reach/see anything. And you have to be a contortionist sometimes to do anything.

I am planning on 2 batteries, but ran parallel for extended run time.


----------



## Thomas Bryan

firecat1981 said:


> That shouldn't be an issue. I'm sinking them on a shelf which gives me more room to play above them, and I'm planning on a hatch on the front/seatback of the console. Maybe the side instead, we will see. I never understood why many consoles have the door below the helm, it seems like the worst place to actually reach/see anything. And you have to be a contortionist sometimes to do anything.
> 
> I am planning on 2 batteries, but ran parallel for extended run time.


----------



## Thomas Bryan

The seat on my center console is large enough for a 12 inch by 16 inch hatch which will give me plenty of room to access the dual batteries. The seat back is large enough for a 16 inch by 16 inch hatch which should give me plenty of access to wiring and controls. You need really good access to work in there after console is attached to floor.

Have to figure out how to mount fuse panel and common ground block. 
The console is only about 1/4 inch thick fiberglass so I will be bonding blocks inside at good locations to mount battery switch and other electrical hardware. Will probably beef up areas where grap rail goes around windshield and any other high stress areas.


----------



## firecat1981

I haven't been able to work much on it these last few weeks. Life and all. I'm now down to all the detailed stuff. All the big jumps forward in progress seem to be done. 

All the small glass staged for the frames and bulkheads

20180706_125357_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Glassed

20180709_095044_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I then turned my attention to installing some cleats. I'm not going crazy as the floor will be supported by foam in the outside compartments. 

20180709_115220_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I decided to use the "hot glue" technique to hold everything in place. I was concerned that the small gaps might weaken the cleats some how. Well I can tell you even the small ones are rock solid, I can put my body weight on them with no issue. I'm going to add a few more smaller cleats in the corners. I haven't done the center compartments yet cause I'm still working on the layout a bit.

20180718_150717_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm going to finish this part, and the battery shelf then foam the outsides prior to working on the floor.


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## bryson

What is the "hot glue" technique?


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## firecat1981

You spread thickened epoxy over the surface except for a few small spots. Then put hot glue in those spots and immediately put it in place and hold for 10-15 seconds. The hot glue is stron enough to hold the part in place until the epoxy cures. It works pretty well.


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## firecat1981

I'm still slowly chipping away. I spend equal times looking as I do working. I finally decided on what I'm going to do with the battery tray. After measuring I figured out I can drop it 5", which is more then I thought. So that's 100+lbs located 5" lower in the hull. To me that is equivalent to having a below deck tank. Now I did raise the sole 1" so it's still 4" lower then stock. I could have lowered it another inch, but in case any water accumulated down there I wanted some space to make sure they stay dry.

Here is the support, and the rest of the cleats.

20180720_150039_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The cleats in place, and the battery shelf support being tacked in.

20180723_143937_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also started pouring foam in the outside chambers. I have to do multiple pours because I only have 16oz cups. So I'm doing 10oz pours. And yes you need that extra room in the cup cause this stuff starts expanding fast.

20180724_093116_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'll install the cross cleats later on once I figure some stuff out.

Now here is where I may differ from some on the foam. I will not be filling the center chambers, just the outsides. I don't care how closed cell any pourable foam is supposed to be, most of them will eventually take on water. So because of this I don't want any chases, limber holes, plumping, screws.....going through any chamber that has foam in it. The outside chambers will be filled up, and completely sealed, the center chambers have large drain holes and will be where all my rigging and such goes through. The outside chambers I believe have more then enough volume to float the whole boat.


----------



## Thomas Bryan

firecat1981 said:


> I'm still slowly chipping away. I spend equal times looking as I do working. I finally decided on what I'm going to do with the battery tray. After measuring I figured out I can drop it 5", which is more then I thought. So that's 100+lbs located 5" lower in the hull. To me that is equivalent to having a below deck tank. Now I did raise the sole 1" so it's still 4" lower then stock. I could have lowered it another inch, but in case any water accumulated down there I wanted some space to make sure they stay dry.
> 
> Here is the support, and the rest of the cleats.
> 
> 20180720_150039_resized , on Flickr
> 
> The cleats in place, and the battery shelf support being tacked in.
> 
> 20180723_143937_resized , on Flickr
> 
> I also started pouring foam in the outside chambers. I have to do multiple pours because I only have 16oz cups. So I'm doing 10oz pours. And yes you need that extra room in the cup cause this stuff starts expanding fast.
> 
> 20180724_093116_resized , on Flickr
> 
> I'll install the cross cleats later on once I figure some stuff out.
> 
> Now here is where I may differ from some on the foam. I will not be filling the center chambers, just the outsides. I don't care how closed cell any pourable foam is supposed to be, most of them will eventually take on water. So because of this I don't want any chases, limber holes, plumping, screws.....going through any chamber that has foam in it. The outside chambers will be filled up, and completely sealed, the center chambers have large drain holes and will be where all my rigging and such goes through. The outside chambers I believe have more then enough volume to float the whole boat.


----------



## Thomas Bryan

I think your logic on not filling the center section is very good. The outside of stringers areas will give you plenty of floatation capability. Looks good so far. Keep it up you may beat me after all but I am not in a big hurry.
Tom


----------



## Pole Position

Thomas Bryan said:


> I think your logic on not filling the center section is very good. The outside of stringers areas will give you plenty of floatation capability.


Another vote of confidence; Lord knows Im no expert, but I also agree---the flotation will be sufficient, and Ive never seen any boat that water could not penetrate over its life span.


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## Cut Runner

Making steady progress now, a month ago I was in the same mental low spot as you were on my project. But its finally rolling again.
I used the same hot glue technique for my build.
I also like the way you did the foam.
If your worried about the slope in your floor, dont be. You can always just add a bigger motor


----------



## firecat1981

I fixed the floor so it should slope properly at rest, if I built the stringers to the design it would not have. I'm in a mental middle spot, I am going to finish it, but unless it amazes me when done I'm already dreaming of the next build (the wife is not). I think I would design my own boat again, maybe something like a foam cored Powerskiff stretched to 17-18ft?

I've been gone for a while and not much has gotten done. Between work, weather, kids, and a vacation in Marco Island (that this build should have been ready for!) nothing has been done in a few weeks. I started working on the foam again today. I gotta say I regret doing it the way I have been. I am doing so many little pours and not getting even consistent results. If I were to do it again I would install the floor first, cut 2 holes in the top of each chamber, calculate and pour the exact amount needed, and then seal the holes. I'm aware of the possible pitfalls doing it this way

I'm not sure the 4 gallons I have will be enough to fill the chambers totally. I'm going to just make sure the center majority reaches all the way to the floor for added support, which really won't be needed, but why not. I'll have a few smaller air pockets, but since these are sealed chambers it won't matter.

20180810_131635_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

There are so many little tasks I have to do before moving on now. If I get time I'll we working on the motor well sides and livewell curves soon.


----------



## Cut Runner

That thing will never touch bottom in anything deeper than it's own draft with all that foam! I like it.

When it does come time for your next project, let me know I will give you every measurement off my hobie you want to know.
Funny I was talking to my gf the other day.. when my 23 build is done I might add a custom hull extension bracket to the Hobie to give it some more length, displacement, and running surface. All my time running that boat tells me the addition probably won't hurt my speed or efficiency in the least and will help the ride.
Sorry for the slight derail


----------



## firecat1981

I'll take you up on the offer if I go foward with it. 

I'm nearly done with this foam session. I plan to fill in a spot between the motor well sides and stringers, it's a curiosity of the design. After that a will have more then 16 cu ft of foam in the boat. It will float.


----------



## firecat1981

Slowly chipping way.

My decks will be top mounted like my other boats, so I needed to level out the transom edge. I used a flap wheel and made quick work of it.

20180816_103852_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Done, and the front edge rounded off with a router.

20180816_132459_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I installed a small backing plate for the bow eye.

20180816_132424_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Finally made some decisions on the motor well. I needed to cut a window for the steering, controls, fuel line.... to run through. then round it off.

20180817_124509_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Motorwell sides tacked in place.

20180817_141047_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Guest

Nice work there Firecat!


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## Thomas Bryan

How are going to seal off that hole or do the items still need to come up thru the splashwell? I am still looking for ideas on how to finish off this area on my FS17.


----------



## Guest

Was just lookin back over your build. I have to say, I like your all glass drain tube! I will be stealing that idea for my johnsen build lol! Of course, I will be stealing Morejohn’s motor well design also lol!


----------



## firecat1981

Thomas Bryan said:


> How are going to seal off that hole or do the items still need to come up thru the splashwell? I am still looking for ideas on how to finish off this area on my FS17.


That hole is located under the splash well. The controls enter there and will curve around and exit the starboard side of the splash well through a 3-4" boot.

Everyone is more then welcome to take any idea I might have and run with it. Some things work out better then others.


----------



## firecat1981

Not to much more done today. I'm working on filleting the motor well sides and a few small things like the battery support.

I used the laser level to help mark where the front deck will be going. Now before anyone says it, no the deck is not actually leveled, it has a one inch rise going forward for drainage. I just used the laser in the non leveling mode to scribe where the support blocks need to be.

20180820_113722_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So here is a bit of a odd part of the plans. The stringers and motor well are absolutely needed, but they set 4" or so apart in the bilge. I more or less understand why it was done this way, but I wish they were butted together. 

20180820_114605_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I plan to fill this void in with foam. I measured it and it will add another 0.76 cu ft of flotation. I'll probably just glass over the top of it after it's leveled off. 

So I've said several times that I don't believe any piece of ply should be left without some kind of glass on it so it doesn't check. Well there are a lot of areas that are either really hard to glass, like the limber channels, or honestly it's just more work then it seems needed after taping a small part. I still don't want any unsupported areas, so I decided to mix up some "Liquid Fiberglass". I mixed milled fibers into the resin, and left it a bit loose so I could still roll it on well. It's not as good as actually laying glass, but the fibers will keep everything protected better then just neat epoxy.


----------



## Guest

The fibers will help keep the epoxy from stress cracking leaving the wood unprotected! Good call on the fibers!


----------



## firecat1981

I flattened out and leveled the foam. It was like Xmas in the summer cause it was snowing everywhere.

I used a flap wheel on an angle grinder to make quick work of the bulky stuff.

20180826_114056_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Then a combo of orbital sander, palm sander, and razors to clean up and level the rest. I've got a few gaps here and there, but nothing I think really warrants a repour. I'm glassing the bottom of my sole so it will be plenty strong. I'll add additional glass in the centers where there is no support from the foam.

20180826_152037_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm working on installing the center floor cleats and supports, and working on the battery tray. it will get installed in the next few days.

20180828_114159_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I'm trying to figure out the best way to secure a 5 gallon bucket in the front hatch. I've got to build something out that can take the bucket filled with the anchor bouncing around. What do you guys think about if I built a shelf, and then cut a 5 gallon bucket down to 1/3 then screwed it down. The 5 gallon would then slip in the cut down bucket.


----------



## yobata

I used an undercut saw similar to this one when cutting the overflow foam. It was a little less "snowy" than using power tools and quite easy to cut with


----------



## DuckNut

firecat1981 said:


> The 5 gallon would then slip in the cut down bucket.


That is a good plan. Drill some hole in this bucket so it can drain and grinds some channels into the mounting board so all of it can drain.


----------



## Cut Runner

Pop a part off of the bottom 1/3rd of a bucket, cut a hole in a piece of melamine, slide it over the bucket, theres your flange for the part!
(You'll just have to sand the line out of the bottom of the bucket first)

You asked lol


----------



## firecat1981

That's a consideraton someone suggested. The bucket once cut isn't super durable. However it would be cheap and quick to do. 

So I might start with the cut down bucket, just to move the project along. Then later on I can go back and pop a mould off of a bucket if it doesn't hold up.


----------



## Fishtex

firecat1981 said:


> That's a consideraton someone suggested. The bucket once cut isn't super durable. However it would be cheap and quick to do.
> 
> So I might start with the cut down bucket, just to move the project along. Then later on I can go back and pop a mould off of a bucket if it doesn't hold up.


Another idea would be to use a Rubbermaid wash tub. I’ve got a couple in the garage for storing stuff. Probably 10” wide by 14” and maybe 5” deep. The top edge is rolled for strength.


----------



## firecat1981

I want to use the cut bucket because it's a super tight fit around the bucket I'll use to hold my anchor. This way I don't need anything to secure it. And you can never have to many buckets on board.


----------



## firecat1981

I added 1x blocks under the battery tray. I'll do a drill-fill-drill so I can use decent length screws to hold down the trays. I'll most likely install it tomorrow if I get the time.

20180829_095111_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So now I move onto something that has been vexing me for a bit. How I want to make the livewell. I finally settled on it. My last well I used a 4" pipe as a mold and cut it into 4's for the corners. This worked well, but I feel the flow wasn't as good as it could have been and on rare occasion I would end up with some red nosed bait. I was going to use a concrete form tube I have to make the ends of the well, but I hesitated because I felt it was just a little to wide. Then I found this, A 6.5 gallon bucket.

20180831_121437_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It's just over 10" wide which is about perfect. I'm going to use half of it as a mold, as I found out in the past a round mold is difficult to get right and gravity always helps. So I set it on it's side and I'll do 2 pulls. There was a ridge and some other imperfections near the bottom so I sanded it down with 120, then 220 grit. Now I don't know what kind of plastic this is, but it's soft, so getting a smooth surface is hard. Also the dust itched worse then fiberglass. 

20180831_130744_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Because the surface was not perfectly smooth I was worried about the glass releasing well. So I coated it in a few layers of PVA mold release. I'll lay up the first side tomorrow.


----------



## firecat1981

It worked out well. I laid it up with a layer of csm, and 2 layers of 6oz glass. It's light and flexible, but that is no issue. Once it's bonded in place it will be back filled with 2 part foam making it more then solid. 

20180901_115831_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Trimmed down a bit.

20180903_122903_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I haven't decided how tall the livewell will be just yet. So I left enough meat on top to trim. The part came out near perfect, it's got a few imperfections on the inside that a little thickened epoxy will fix up. 

I just pulled off the second half and it came out almost as well. I used only one coating of PVA this time and it made it much harder to pull the part off. If I do this again I'll use at least 3 layers.


----------



## firecat1981

Before I can work on the well I need to finish up a few things. I finished up the battery shelf. It will have 2 trays on it, but I can run with one battery if needed.

20180909_112411_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Time for chase tubes. I'll use a 2" for rigging, 1.5" for electric, 1.5" for the transducer, and a 1" for the fuel line. Eventually I'll add a small chase to the front for the trolling motor and nav lights. 

20180909_174354_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

I'm making some headway now, and think I've figured out my plans for the rest of it all. 

I test fit the chase tubes, I wish I planned them out a bit better. They will work great, but I had to make some adjustments because after the battery shelf was built I was only left with 4.5" under the console if I stayed with my design. As I said I'm using a 1" pipe for the gas line. It will run up to and through the front of the console to the seat where the gas tank is. I'll seal it off well with 5200 to make sure no fumes can get passed it into the console.

20180910_125202_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

This is possibly the sloppiest 5200 job I've ever done, lol. But it wasn't worth cleaning up because it will all be hidden. One think I'm not crazy about is the tubes, while secure, could use more support where the sweeps are. I've got a plan though, we will see if it works out.

20180912_131809_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180912_131743_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So now I can finally move on to the floor. I need to put in the rear section so I can install the scupper tubes. I decided to go super simple with it. The tubes will just be at floor level, no dished out areas or anything. Some cardboard and hot glue make a great template.

20180912_115435_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I like to glass the bottoms of my sole. I added some scrap glass pieces to the middle where the floor needs the most support. Should be nice and stiff

20180912_140523_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Parts are starting to trickle in. No more Attwood pumps, but the spray heads have served me well.

20180910_171736_resized
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Cut Runner

I bet you can't wait to put the sole down!


----------



## firecat1981

Cut Runner said:


> I bet you can't wait to put the sole down!


Your right, because at the moment with the foam on the sides and chases in the middle I need to walk carefully on the tops of the stringers to access the inside. I'm to big for this balancing act, lol.

Seriously though, I think the sole is probably the biggest visual change to the interior, so mentally it's motivating.


----------



## firecat1981

Life is getting busy, and it's hard to find enough computer time to write posts, so this will be a bit longer then the norm. 

First I installed the floor section I cut out. Well I'm a bit disappointed. Even with all the supports, glassing the bottom, and adding 3 additional layers to the center area, there is still a lot of flex. As I mentioned previously the okoume plywood I think is great for curves, but I like the mechanical properties of meranti much more. I've never had plywood flex at this stage. My hope is it stiffens up quite a bit with the top layer of glass. if not I'll have to add a second layer. Because of this I decided to add additional supports to the other floor sections. Hopefully this takes care of it.

20180927_124337_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

With that settled I decided to just go ahead and install the fiberglass scupper tubes I bought. I bonded them in with thickened epoxy

20180918_112549_resized_1 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180924_141842_resized_1 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180924_141859_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The tubes run in the wasted gap between the stringers and the motorwell sides. I am foaming in the area around them and will top with glass adding additional flotation where it's probably most needed.

20180924_141851_resized_1 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180928_122235_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I installed the forward wire chase. It will house the trolling motor, nav lights, and hatch LED's if I choose to go that route.

20180930_121521_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So after installing the rear chases I felt I needed a better way to stabilize them going into the console. I had plenty of foam so I figured why not.

20180918_133318_resized_1 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20180919_094925_resized_1 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I know it looks a bit ugly, but it did clean up ok.

20180928_120525_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Now for the last project. I was trying to find a way to secure a bucket or 2 in the front hatch. 

20180924_111235_resized_1 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

But ultimately I settled on a shelf that can hold two 3.5 gallon buckets.

20180924_110645_resized_1 - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I glassed and installed the shelf. I'm not sure if I will go with one or 2 buckets, probably 2. One for the anchor, and one for the castnet. I use a 2 gallon for the net now and its tight so this will be an upgrade.

20180927_124324_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Ok I think that's all I got for now.


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## Guest

Looking great, she’s comin together!


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## bryson

Looks good! Love the bucket idea, and I'm happy to see someone using the fiberglass tubes for the scuppers. I have often wondered why PVC is so popular for things like that (especially straight sections). All of my buddies and I have short PVC pipes that drain our deck out the sides, and the sleeves always leak and let water into the bilge. You can replace them with the little bronze scupper tubes, but I always thought that glassing in a fiberglass tube would be a much better solution.


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## firecat1981

Thanks, I think the tubes will work out well enough. My only concern is they are pretty rough on the inside and debris might get caught up in there. I made my own tube for the transom drain and that came out great. In the future I'll most likely make my own scupper tubes as well so they are smoother.


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## Brett

I've made a few fiberglass tubes over the years, some straight, some curved.
Aluminum tubing and pvc tubing wrapped in wax paper, then glass/resin wrapped.
after it hardens, the form pipe pulls out easily
and the wax paper can be removed after the form pipe is out.


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## firecat1981

That's how I make the drain tubes, but using wood dowels for proper size.


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## Brett

If you want to do an in place chase,
try a length of vinyl tubing.
Wax it like you would any mold, lay it on place in the hull, glass over it.
After the resin cures, pull the tubing out.
Since it stretches, it narrows in diameter.
Just make sure to have enough exposed to get a grip on.
And room to pull.


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## firecat1981

I'll consider that in the future. Thankfully I think I'm done with the chases on this project.


----------



## Guest

firecat1981 said:


> Thanks, I think the tubes will work out well enough. My only concern is they are pretty rough on the inside and debris might get caught up in there. I made my own tube for the transom drain and that came out great. In the future I'll most likely make my own scupper tubes as well so they are smoother.


Sand paper on a dowel rod might work. Cut paper to fit dowel, spray some 3m super 77 on it, wrap the paper and pretend you brushing the bore of a really dirty Hawkins black powder!


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## yobata

Boatbrains said:


> Sand paper on a dowel rod might work. Cut paper to fit dowel, spray some 3m super 77 on it, wrap the paper and pretend you brushing the bore of a really dirty Hawkins black powder!


You can go really fast if you place the fiberglass tube (that needs sanding) between your legs, the sandpaper dowel is held out just in front of you, below your torso, and in the perfect spot to go real fast! Just be careful as sometimes the white fiberglass dust will come shooting out of the end of that thing when it's all over...


----------



## Guest

yobata said:


> You can go really fast if you place the fiberglass tube (that needs sanding) between your legs, the sandpaper dowel is held out just in front of you, below your torso, and in the perfect spot to go real fast! Just be careful as sometimes the white fiberglass dust will come shooting out of the end of that thing when it's all over...


Mind in the gutter tonight is it?


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## Brett

How would I sand the inside of a fiberglass tube?
Cheat of course.
Dig in the tool chest and find the flex-hone.
I'm way too lazy to use the sandpaper and dowel method.


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## DuckNut

yobata said:


> You can go really fast if you place the fiberglass tube (that needs sanding) between your legs, the sandpaper dowel is held out just in front of you, below your torso, and in the perfect spot to go real fast! Just be careful as sometimes the white fiberglass dust will come shooting out of the end of that thing when it's all over...


and then you end up with little bastards all over the place.


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## firecat1981

Lol, well this went in a weird direction. I have 3/8" dowels for this exact reason. So they fit inside my cordless drill.


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## Fishtex

One thing to remember about fiberglass tubing is it may have tiny holes due to the pultrusion process. Always coat if it needs to be absolutely water tight. Sheet or filament wrap tubing may or may not be better. Just a thought.


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## firecat1981

I did not see any holes that went through, but plenty of tiny voids. I coated the interior with some epoxy, and will go back over it again.


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## firecat1981

So a little more progress, and I'm pretty happy with this one. 

I filled in the foam around the scuppers some more until the tubes were covered. Then I began to shape them. The port side is just sloped to drain well. On the starboard side I did the same, but made a little ramp to better support the cables and wires that will go through the hole to the locker.

20181001_115906_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After shaping I used some light thickened epoxy to fill in the holes in the surface of the foam and then covered it all in layers of 6oz glass.

20181003_172521_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20181003_172531_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Not only does this area now serve a purpose, but I think it looks much more finished.

I also mocked up the rest of the sole. I'll splice the panels together with glass and install it as one part. Hindsight being 20/20 I wish I did the whole sole like this. 

20181003_131559_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

So I got a package in the mail from Oznium.com the other day and I’m pretty excited about it. I used their 4-chip LED’s in the past and loved them, so I decided to try out their other products. In my new boat I’ll be using their navigation lights, a bunch of the 4-chips, and a few of their 3w underwater flood lights on the transom. This post is mostly about the flood lights.


So this is my last/current boat, The Plytanic. I installed just a single 4-chip LED on either side of the console. They are pretty bright.


PA040097 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


I’m switching to red on the new boat. Below is a comparison picture of the floods(left), and the 4-chip(right). The AA battery is just for size perspective.


20181012_181654_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


The floods come in a nice aluminum housing. I thought they would be plastic when I ordered so it was a nice surprise. The Navigation lights are of similar high quality.


20181012_181736_resized - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


Here is where you can really tell the difference, when we apply power to them.


20181012_181819_resized - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


The floods are many times brighter then the 4-chips! The pics don’t do them justice. Here are some other comparison pics. Again the pics don’t do them justice, but if you can imagine it’s about the difference between looking at a streetlight vs starring at the sun!


20181012_111156_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20181012_111425_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


Underwater


20181012_111214_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20181012_111445_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


I haven’t wired up the red 4-chips yet, but I imagine they won’t be quite as bright as the blue.


Cheers!


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## Guest

Very nice brother!


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## firecat1981

Nice, and cheap too. The floods I think are about $20 each, and the 4-chips are like $3.50 each. You can do a lot for not much.

Also the draw is minimal. I think with 9 4-chips, 2 floods, and the navs I'll be just about an amp.


----------



## Guest

firecat1981 said:


> Nice, and cheap too. The floods I think are about $20 each, and the 4-chips are like $3.50 each. You can do a lot for not much.
> 
> Also the draw is minimal. I think with 9 4-chips, 2 floods, and the navs I'll be just about an amp.


Yeah, I am a big fan of led technology. Every light on my truck is led!


----------



## Smackdaddy53

I bought the Oznium nav lights and they are flat. Not sure how you can see the lights from the front if they are flush mounted flat. The only way is to mount them at a forward angle using a wedge of starboard or something.


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## firecat1981

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I bought the Oznium nav lights and they are flat. Not sure how you can see the lights from the front if they are flush mounted flat. The only way is to mount them at a forward angle using a wedge of starboard or something.


They are made to be mounted like the shark eyes, toward the bow there the hull tapers in a bit. If memory serves they have 120 degree viability even though they appear flat.


----------



## Cut Runner

Not a huge deal but you cant add sharkeyes to a boat unless its 2005 or older. In 06 NMMA mandated they no longer be used.
Honestly I doubt anything would come of it, and I'm pretty sure not many marine officers know or care


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## firecat1981

Then what is everyone using now? I see most newer boats have a similar style set up to the ozniums.


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## firecat1981

I was hoping to make a post with some progress. However everything is on hold now.
My USAR team is sending a second deployment to Mexico Beach, to assist with rescue efforts from Hurricane Michael. I'll hopefully be back in a week or so. Stay safe guys.


----------



## firecat1981

Still wondering why you can't use the shark eyes anymore. I've been looking at a lot of new skiff pics and even larger bay boats and many still use a similar style. Either way I'm sticking with the ozniums, they are small, draw no real power, and are made of aluminum.

Back to work. I have some stuff I did before deployment I never got to post and a little work since. 

I bonded down the rest of the floor. I did this part different, I joined the panels together then installed it as a single unit. In my opinion this was way easier then installing a floor in multiple parts and I wish I did it with the whole sole. I think it would be stronger too.
20181007_210722_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I am working on building the livewell. It will be just over 10 gallons when done. I recessed the drain, and a spray head will go offset on top.
20181015_135924_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20181025_112444_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20181026_102258_resized - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20181027_092044_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm working on filling and filleting the floor edges. I like to do larger gaps like this in 2 stages to avoid sagging issues in the final product. The first thickened epoxy I put down is heavily mixed with milled fibers for additional structural strength. I use a putty knife to flatten it down and make sure it fills the void well. Then I'll go back over it with my normal fillet mix and make the radius.
20181027_133856_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20181027_133926_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I did some other small things like flush and round the edge around the battery tray opening. I'll cut down the chase tubes once I'm all done glassing the area.


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## Smackdaddy53

It looks great! I was having trouble visualizing how you were going to use that bucket but I see now. Sweet


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## firecat1981

Thanks bud. It's working out well so far. It's pretty rigid now that it has been bonded in place, but I'm still going to back fill it with foam.

When its done I'm going to find some kind of a mat to lay in it for when I'm using live shrimp. I understand they like to hold on to something when relaxing so they don't get to beat up by water sloshing around.


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## makin moves

Super clean looking! Nice work.


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## Cut Runner

Very nice! 
I like the recessed drain, seems small but it's a big deal in a livewell. (To me at least)

Also, I do my fillets same as you. I actually did some "fillet testing" on an old part. I tried both ways and then cut the backside out to see what the results were..
Theres a reason I do it the same way as you now!


----------



## firecat1981

I'm still playing catch up from being gone on a lot of things, and I'm running down a punch list before getting to the decks and console.

Here's a closer look at the scupper tubes. They dish out just a little below the level of the deck so they should keep it clear of any standing water.

20181028_182606_resized - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I foamed the voids behind the livewell sides, they are rock solid. I also filleted and glassed the sides in, and added a backing plate for the sprayhead.

20181028_182658_resized - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The floor was filleted and then I laid out my glass.

20181031_111851_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I glassed the floor, and it came out well. Mostly.

20181031_130330_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I ran into an issue that I keep coming back to. The okoume is not rigid enough for some applications. The floor in the rear, even with 6oz glass bottom and top still has some flex. I fixed this issue up front with additional supports, but all I can do to the rear is add glass. I added another layer overlapping the area with flex, but it still has a little left. I think ill do one more smaller layer in the middle.

20181105_113823_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The last thing I did was correct an issue I've had for a while. This stems back to the off square problem I had with the plywood early on and the corrections I tried to make. Some worked out better then others. Basically my gunnel had a hump in it from where I reshaped them. I used a piece of composite molding to scribe a better line and then ground it down. My rub rail has a concave hump, I'll use the same piece of molding to create a dam to fill and make it more level.

20181106_110201_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

That's all for now.


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## Guest

Lookin good!


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## firecat1981

The slow paced work continues. Work and the kids have been slowing me down further, it's just the busy time of year. 

I glassed the rest of the interior with 6oz cloth. This isn't required, but I want everything protected and strengthened as much as possible. 

20181109_110417_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Glassing helped stiffen up the sides a bit too. before I could push in the gunnels about an inch or so, now it's maybe less then 1/2 an inch. The stiffeners will take care of the rest.

20181109_181949_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I still have some flex on the rear floor, not much, but it bothers me. I added a couple of strips of 6" tape to retie it in to the sides and frames. It helped a bit, but there is still a slight amount of flex. I'll decide if I'm gonna go any further with that later as most of that area will be covered by a cooler/seat arrangement.

20181109_181958_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So here is where I'm a little embarrassed to share. I literally spent 2 days figuring out how I wanted to do the side supports/rod holders. Measure, draw, erase, measure, draw, erase.....about 200 times! 

20181115_143542_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I wanted them to be aesthetically pleasing, somewhat, and functional. The problem is how much the hull curves. The spacing needed to be correct so it supports the hull sides well, and allows me to hang a long rod. I don't fly fish so my goal was to be able to hang a 7.5' rod without having to cut holes in the bulkhead. I can do 8' if needed with this arrangement. 
So from left to right is the bow, middle, and stern supports. I decided the most functional type was a simple hole, but if I needed to hold a longer rod where the reel was behind the support instead of in front the hole doesn't work. So the front gets the hole, and the rear gets a slide in design. the rear is made so if I need to add a bungee strap later on it's not a problem. The top can fit 2 larger diameter rods, and the bottom will hold either a smaller rod, gaff if I ever need, or most likely my stake out rod. The gunnel caps will end up being about 8.5" total. and there will be a cap edge of about 5/8" x 2.5" so the top rods will be tucked under well. The supports themselves I want a little thicker this time, so they will be either 3/4" or 1" thick.

20181115_165231_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Still working on the supports. 

20181117_161630_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I used the router to duplicate each part. I'll bond the other parts to them and then use the router again to finish cutting it out, then again to round the edges. 

20181118_112501_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I was able to make the parts from scrap I had saved. They will be 1" thick.

20181118_125935_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## Guest

Lookin good brother!


----------



## DuckNut

Just another opinion FC.

The holes seem like a good idea but they are the perfect recipe for broken eyes.


----------



## Guest

DuckNut said:


> Just another opinion FC.
> 
> The holes seem like a good idea but they are the perfect recipe for broken eyes.


True!


----------



## firecat1981

I hear you, but I've had a simple, and similar, hole in my bulkhead on my current skiff. I've learned to be careful.

The reason I like the hole is so the rods don't bounce out in rougher waters. I've had issues with this before to the point I snapped a rod tip and broke a handle off a reel.

If I were designing the boat myself, as I may in the future, I would do long rod tubes enclosed in the sides with lockable cabinets.


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## GoGataGo52__20

Sick!


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## firecat1981

Once I'm done glassing them I'll use a roundover bit, then add glass to the faces and wear areas.

20181120_145816_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Some more pieces to the puzzle. I got online and waited 45 minutes in front of bass pro Wednesday to grab a new GPS/FF. I originally was looking at a 5-7" display, and narrowed it down to the Lowrance elite ti series. This 9" was cheaper then the 7" on sale. I'll also be able to get all the engine data on it, bluetooth it to a radio, and maybe hook it into the GPS trolling motor, as well as get down scan and side scan capabilities. basically a bunch of stuff I'll probably never need, lol. It came with both C-maps, and Navionics+ so I'll need to figure out which one is best for my area.

20181121_102957_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

One last stop after Bass Pro. I went and met up with a friend from another forum, Cape Man at his property, which is pretty cool, got to look at his boat build too. He helped me out with a bimini top he wasn't going to need, but should work well on my project. I forget to take a pic, but it's a tan 4 bow set up. Even got to chat up him and his grad student about aquaculture biology and such. Good times, Thanks again!


----------



## firecat1981

Some more slow progress, but progress none the less. 

So I've had hatches on all my skiffs. The first ones I built out of just plywood, and they worked well, but did not have any kind of seals. On my current skiff I went out and bought commercial plastic hatches, I hate them, lol. Ok hate is a strong word. I feel they look a bit cheesy and while they do seal when they are kept closed, as soon as you open them they drip all the water held in the gutters into the compartment. So I'm going to take a blind stab at making a better hatch.

Here I'm drawing out what I envision the gutters to look like. 2 of the corners are wider so I can install 1/2" drains. I'm going with just 1/2" to make it a bit easier and since these are the rear hatches they just need to be able to clear some spray or rain. The front hatch will be a different setup. 

20181127_164347_resized - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After cutting them out I laminated the parts to scrap pieces of 3/8" ply. This gives the proper spacing so the hatch that will be cored with 3/8" will be able to sit down flush. OR at least I hope so. 

20181129_095201_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Routed, mounted to the backing board, edge routed, and filleted. it's not perfect, but I think it's not to bad. 

20181202_133032_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I edge routed and glassed the side supports. and rolled a coat of epoxy onto the gutter mold too.

20181202_141859_resized - Copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The hatches will have about a 3/8" gap around the sides that will allow them to open without binding, and give enough room for the hinges I'll be using. They are Gemlux flush mounts I snagged on clearance.


----------



## Guest

Very nice!


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## Cut Runner

Looks good! Now were talking


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## firecat1981

Wow, I did not realize how long it's been since I made a post, and how little work I got done, lol. Dang holidays!

Ok so some things have happened. I decided to abandon the hatch idea. I realized a few things when I went to start putting glass down. First Where I wanted to run my drain tubes would not work, at least not well enough for me. Then I realized after deciding to play with the mold anyway, that I did not have the right glass rollers to smooth out all the tighter corners. Since I did not want to build another mold I decided to just junk it and move on. I'll just build them out of wood, more on that later on. I did get the side supports/rod holders in place and like how they came out. I didn't realize I hadn't posted that so I'll take a pic later.

I got around to working on the shelf again. I cut down 2 5 gallon buckets and mounted them with a 1/4" bolt. I have some of those closed cell kids play area pads that are round and fit under the buckets, and may use them as sort of a compression shock absorber of sorts. I'll be using 3.5 gallon buckets, one for my cast net, and one for the anchor and rode.

20190111_123352_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The next idea I came up with I stole from the kayak crowd. So I am looking for all sorts of better way to store things on this small boat. My last one had really one usable semi dry hatch because of the life jackets taking up room, and everything else remained on deck or under the rear deck. So I laminated some parts and got to work on a few solutions.

20190110_171837_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The pic above is not rope, it's 1/4" marine bungee cord. I'll use it in a shoe string pattern of sorts to store the life jackets in front of the bucket shelf. This area is generally wasted space because of the hull curve, but the jackets don't care. The bungee cord will allow quick easy access in case they are needed.

Bungee Brackets installed

20190111_134724_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also did this on the rear compartment that the rigging runs through. Typically guys might wall this off and add a deck plate, but that seems unnecessary. This will allow me to store things and keep them away from the rigging, and give me really good access to anything I might need to do back there.

20190111_134759_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

More to come later.


----------



## makin moves

You know its been awhile since a update when you click on the thread and it takes you to page one. Looking good!


----------



## State fish rob

Keep up the great work. Spring just around the corner. Great job


----------



## firecat1981

Thanks guys

I started smoothing out the live well. I ground the top of the foam flush, then used a knife to dig out a wedge around the edges, this will be filled with thickened epoxy to create a good bond with the deck. You can see some left over fillet material I laid in there. I have a few pin holes to seal up and then I'll be ready to prime.

20190113_162747_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The side supports/rod holders had been more or less leveled, filleted, and glass tabbed in.

20190113_162758_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I filleted in the bungee cord racks. Then started playing with how I'll string it up. Not quite sure how it will end up, but something like this maybe?

20190114_124050_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## makin moves

Livewell came out great!


----------



## Cut Runner

Your going to love that livewell!
How come you scrapped the hatch gutter idea? Your plug looked really really good for a first attempt.

Funny, my oceanmaster had a bungee setup in the cavernous bow hatch which worked great. I plan on doing the same on the boat I'm building now


----------



## firecat1981

Cut Runner said:


> Your going to love that livewell!
> How come you scrapped the hatch gutter idea? Your plug looked really really good for a first attempt.
> 
> Funny, my oceanmaster had a bungee setup in the cavernous bow hatch which worked great. I plan on doing the same on the boat I'm building now


It was a combination of several things. First it looked ok, but was not quite perfect. Not a huge deal but it bugged me a little. 
Second I realized the plan I had for the drain was not going to work like I thought. On the front hatch it would have been fine, but the drain tubes and hose needed more drop in the rear. That wasn't available unless I dropped the motor well more, but that hindered access to the water seperator and stuff.
Last was once I started laying glass I quickly realized the massive amount of epoxy it would take. I needed to build them thick because the surrounding okoume is so flexible. Not a big deal for the 2 small hatches, but the big 26x20 front hatch would be a killer.

So I decided for the sake of moving on I just need to make basic ones out of wood and glass.


----------



## Cut Runner

Gotcha. It's always something isn't it? As a builder finding a way to make every little detail work in sync and still remain aesthetically pleasing and serviceable is a large feat


----------



## makin moves

Cut Runner said:


> Gotcha. It's always something isn't it? As a builder finding a way to make every little detail work in sync and still remain aesthetically pleasing and serviceable is a large feat


 The mental hours on a project like this are 20x the man hours to build it. You go over the design and how it should work in your head so much it's crazy. You roll over in bed in the middle of the night and it pops in your head ( if I glass it this way and run that over.......)


----------



## Guest

makin moves said:


> The mental hours on a project like this are 20x the man hours to build it. You go over the design and how it should work in your head so much it's crazy. You roll over in bed in the middle of the night and it pops in your head ( if I glass it this way and run that over.......)


Oh so true!!!


----------



## firecat1981

So speaking of the mental hours, I've been in analysis paralysis for a few days over the console. I finally decided on a semi direction and made a cardboard mock up real quick. 

20190122_142853_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190122_142932_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm trying to make a sit stand console. I stand most of the time while operating, but sit on long runs. I'll have a tall cooler as a seat, 22"-24" tall or so. I'm 6'3" so it's gotta be tall enough, but I don't want it to be overpowering for the boat. So here we are. It's 26" wide and hides lots of stuff under her. I think it looks big, but it's hard to tell without all the decks and such installed. I looked at other boats about this size and some have consoles just as big, some are half the size. I'm hoping to cut plywood tomorrow, so I gotta figure it out.


----------



## CodyW

firecat1981 said:


> So speaking of the mental hours, I've been in analysis paralysis for a few days over the console. I finally decided on a semi direction and made a cardboard mock up real quick.
> 
> 20190122_142853_resized , on Flickr
> 
> 20190122_142932_resized , on Flickr
> 
> I'm trying to make a sit stand console. I stand most of the time while operating, but sit on long runs. I'll have a tall cooler as a seat, 22"-24" tall or so. I'm 6'3" so it's gotta be tall enough, but I don't want it to be overpowering for the boat. So here we are. It's 26" wide and hides lots of stuff under her. I think it looks big, but it's hard to tell without all the decks and such installed. I looked at other boats about this size and some have consoles just as big, some are half the size. I'm hoping to cut plywood tomorrow, so I gotta figure it out.


Looks good! I like it.


----------



## Guest

firecat1981 said:


> So speaking of the mental hours, I've been in analysis paralysis for a few days over the console. I finally decided on a semi direction and made a cardboard mock up real quick.
> 
> 20190122_142853_resized , on Flickr
> 
> 20190122_142932_resized , on Flickr
> 
> I'm trying to make a sit stand console. I stand most of the time while operating, but sit on long runs. I'll have a tall cooler as a seat, 22"-24" tall or so. I'm 6'3" so it's gotta be tall enough, but I don't want it to be overpowering for the boat. So here we are. It's 26" wide and hides lots of stuff under her. I think it looks big, but it's hard to tell without all the decks and such installed. I looked at other boats about this size and some have consoles just as big, some are half the size. I'm hoping to cut plywood tomorrow, so I gotta figure it out.


Function beats out form everytime for me brother! Build it how you want/need and don’t look back!


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## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> So speaking of the mental hours, I've been in analysis paralysis for a few days over the console. I finally decided on a semi direction and made a cardboard mock up real quick.
> 
> 20190122_142853_resized , on Flickr
> 
> 20190122_142932_resized , on Flickr
> 
> I'm trying to make a sit stand console. I stand most of the time while operating, but sit on long runs. I'll have a tall cooler as a seat, 22"-24" tall or so. I'm 6'3" so it's gotta be tall enough, but I don't want it to be overpowering for the boat. So here we are. It's 26" wide and hides lots of stuff under her. I think it looks big, but it's hard to tell without all the decks and such installed. I looked at other boats about this size and some have consoles just as big, some are half the size. I'm hoping to cut plywood tomorrow, so I gotta figure it out.


Are you going to add vertical rod holders to the side of the console like many people do? And how much space will that leave between the rod holders and the walkable gunnels?


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## firecat1981

Yes, and still enough to walk past pretty easily, not sure of the exact measurement.


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## firecat1981

A little bit more. So I abandoned the hatch molds in favor of a simpler plan after realizing the drains wouldn't work. Using 1x stock laminated together to make gutters. It's working out pretty well so far.

20190123_132839_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I decided on how I'll run the rigging to the motor well too. I bought a 3" boot which tapers down to about 2", but found out that suzuki uses a 2" rigging tube. So That doesn't leave much room for the steering or fuel line. I went out and bought a 4.5" rigging boot which is the next size up, but it is massive and I don't like the way it looks. So I decided to go with 2 of the 3" boots instead. The motor well is not used for anything else, so I figured why not. 

20190123_135956_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## anytide

please hurry.... ducknuts boat is full of leaves and i need a ride.


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## DuckNut

anytide said:


> please hurry.... ducknuts boat is full of leaves and i need a ride.


Now that you are done shooting deer you can come pressure wash the leaves out and use it. At least it would get wet from something other than rain.


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## Cut Runner

Sounds like the old days around here


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## anytide

is it still full of koi ?
bowfishing season opens soon.


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## anytide

save those 8" ers for snook bait.


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## DuckNut

anytide said:


> save those 8" ers for snook bait.


There's a few larvae in there you can use for fly fishing


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## anytide

if rkmurphy would hurry up ..... we,d both have a new ride.


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## DuckNut

I ran into him a while ago. He seems to be doing well.


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## anytide

sorry fcat for stinking up your thread.....
boat looks awesome !!


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## Cut Runner

Cmon firecat, throw a couple nitrile gloves on, turn the garage radio up to 11 and get crackin!


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## firecat1981

Lol, haven't touched it in over a week. And now I'm leaving on a bit of an anniversary trip. I promise once I get back there will be a push to finish it.


----------



## DuckNut

We heard that last year!


----------



## yobata

DuckNut said:


> We heard that last year!


Remember when he said it was the MarinEpoxy's long cure time that was holding the build up


----------



## DuckNut

Remember when he said he spends equal time staring as he does working...


----------



## firecat1981

yobata said:


> Remember when he said it was the MarinEpoxy's long cure time that was holding the build up


The work, when I can work, goes faster and better with the fgci epoxy. The marine epoxy was such a disaster I replaced all of it. Just loved buying double the epoxy needed.


----------



## firecat1981

DuckNut said:


> Remember when he said he spends equal time staring as he does working...


I legitimately spent more time sorting out errors in the plans then it took to design my last 2 boats. Now for every 3 minutes I stare at her I get one minute of work done.


----------



## DuckNut

firecat1981 said:


> I legitimately spent more time sorting out errors in the plans then it took to design my last 2 boats. Now for every 3 minutes I stare at her I get one minute of work done.


I know how it goes. Lots of looking when doing one off's.

I hope you know we are just bustin balls.


----------



## firecat1981

Of course. I'm just kicking myself now because all the time lost sent me so far off schedule that I'm eating into multiple other projects. Including selling our house, eeek!


----------



## firecat1981

Bigger issue is my wife is now quite sour on boat building, so it might be a while till the next one, lol.


----------



## Cut Runner

firecat1981 said:


> Bigger issue is my wife is now quite sour on boat building, so it might be a while till the next one, lol.


That's easy! Next time just buy a new boat, when she asks what you paid , you will then have to return the new boat but she will 100% approve of your boat building then!


----------



## firecat1981

So here's the new new new deal. If I buy her a bigger house ans fully renovate it as she wants, I can build a bit of a dingy.


----------



## DuckNut

firecat1981 said:


> So here's the new new new deal. If I buy her a bigger house ans fully renovate it as she wants, I can build a bit of a dingy.


Nope. Once you start to build she will want a newer, bigger home once again. Coincidentally her urge will coincide with her seeing boat drawings lying on the counter.


----------



## Marker10

“Boat before wife, have a great life” are words to live by as a successful fisherman.


----------



## firecat1981

So after a vacation and some bad weather I got back at it. I started sanding down the forward 2 compartments, but quickly realized there was little point to fairing it all. I sanded down all the sharp edges and rolled on a coat of epoxy and milled fibers to help smooth it out a bit. It worked out well enough and is now ready for prime and paint. The rear 2 compartments I plan to fair better because they will be used often.

I bonded in the gutter today. I ran a 1x3 across the back of it for additional support. I'll add a few more support bits once it's cured. I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but I recessed the gutter lip 1/16" to allow for glass and a gasket.

20190215_125354_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm still working on the console design, I'm leaning towards a more horizontal wheel setup like this. Cardboard to follow.

console3 copy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## BassFlats

Looking good. As a veteran of a few wooden skiff builds, the best advice i could give you is, when in doubt, put another coat or 2 of epoxy on it. Water will find the smallest of hole and get in and start the rot process. Hopefully you can keep it in a garage when not in use.


----------



## Tautog166

firecat1981 said:


> I legitimately spent more time sorting out errors in the plans then it took to design my last 2 boats. Now for every 3 minutes I stare at her I get one minute of work done.


Did you not modify the plans from the get go? Honest question here, but if you followed them, would you be done and fishing? Bateau FS18?


----------



## firecat1981

Walter Lee said:


> Did you not modify the plans from the get go? Honest question here, but if you followed them, would you be done and fishing? Bateau FS18?


The only modification I did at first was to raise the sole 1 inch. That was not where the problems were. The stock stringer dimensions did not line up right with the frames, the motorwell sides did not locate the transom to the right height, and the transom was designed for a small portable motor even though it was rated to 50hp. Also with frames only every 3 feet the jig was not enough to support the bottom panels as needed, leading to a sagging issue that took weeks to correct.

I even went as far as drawing the design out on the computer to double check it. On the transom part I at least got a confirmation that it was an error that will be corrected.

It's an FS17. I've had several other builders say they ran into similar issues, but they were embarrassed to speak up thinking they were in the wrong. It's nothing that can't be overcome, but these are the things I hoped to avoid by buying a set of plans.

Add to that the fact that the BS1088 okoume plywood I ordered was out of square messing everything up, and the resin I bought at first was defective in my opinion, I had a lot to overcome to get to this point. 

It's ok though. Live and learn right. I'm not sure I'll keep this boat long term, I'm already thinking about another build. If I do another small boat I'll design it myself and build it with the materials and process I like.


----------



## firecat1981

BassFlats said:


> Looking good. As a veteran of a few wooden skiff builds, the best advice i could give you is, when in doubt, put another coat or 2 of epoxy on it. Water will find the smallest of hole and get in and start the rot process. Hopefully you can keep it in a garage when not in use.


Thanks, this is my 4th build, and all of them are resin rich in my opinion. I've even taken to heating any dimensional wood prior to neat coating, the resin draws in about twice as deep this way.


----------



## Tautog166

firecat1981 said:


> The only modification I did at first was to raise the sole 1 inch. That was not where the problems were. The stock stringer dimensions did not line up right with the frames, the motorwell sides did not locate the transom to the right height, and the transom was designed for a small portable motor even though it was rated to 50hp. Also with frames only every 3 feet the jig was not enough to support the bottom panels as needed, leading to a sagging issue that took weeks to correct.
> 
> I even went as far as drawing the design out on the computer to double check it. On the transom part I at least got a confirmation that it was an error that will be corrected.
> 
> It's an FS17. I've had several other builders say they ran into similar issues, but they were embarrassed to speak up thinking they were in the wrong. It's nothing that can't be overcome, but these are the things I hoped to avoid by buying a set of plans.
> 
> Add to that the fact that the BS1088 okoume plywood I ordered was out of square messing everything up, and the resin I bought at first was defective in my opinion, I had a lot to overcome to get to this point.
> 
> It's ok though. Live and learn right. I'm not sure I'll keep this boat long term, I'm already thinking about another build. If I do another small boat I'll design it myself and build it with the materials and process I like.


My bad. I thought they were fs18 plans. My hat is off to you. As much as I would love to build my own, I just don’t have the resources or more importantly,the skills to pull off what you have done.


----------



## firecat1981

The skills are quickly learned, the resources are more then most would think though. Start small, build a canoe or Jon boat with home depot junk ply, then you move up, and up, and up...


----------



## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> I've even taken to heating any dimensional wood prior to neat coating, the resin draws in about twice as deep this way.


Can you talk about how you accomplish heating the lumber?


----------



## firecat1981

yobata said:


> Can you talk about how you accomplish heating the lumber?


It's pretty simple really. I use a heat gun slowly sweeping small sections until they are warm to the touch, not burning. Then immediately roll on epoxy. 

I think I read once that the epoxy will be absorbed better if you can raise the temp of the wood about 30 degrees above ambient temperature.

I started to do this because the nice select pine boards I began using as cleats didn't soak up the epoxy well. It soaked in some, but most of it just stayed laying on top, so it was shiny. With the heating the pores of the wood open up, and it soaks in the epoxy so well you'd think it was still bare wood until you touched it.

I've cut sections to see and the resin penetrates atleast twice as deep this way.


----------



## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> It's pretty simple really. I use a heat gun slowly sweeping small sections until they are warm to the touch, not burning. Then immediately roll on epoxy.
> 
> I think I read once that the epoxy will be absorbed better if you can raise the temp of the wood about 30 degrees above ambient temperature.
> 
> I started to do this because the nice select pine boards I began using as cleats didn't soak up the epoxy well. It soaked in some, but most of it just stayed laying on top, so it was shiny. With the heating the pores of the wood open up, and it soaks in the epoxy so well you'd think it was still bare wood until you touched it.
> 
> I've cut sections to see and the resin penetrates atleast twice as deep this way.


This is really great info, thanks!! I used select pine boards to make the gutter for a hatch on my skiff and wondered if there was a way to get the resin to soak in there deeper


----------



## firecat1981

I think I finally decided on a direction for the console. It's more of a horizontal wheel position and should work out well. It's a bit hard to tell, but here's the mock up.

20190219_154521_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190219_154546_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I added some supports for the front deck to set on, there will also be a few 1x2 braces going in before the deck goes down. 

20190219_172836_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I have a plan in place for the rear hatches, I just need time to make it happen.


----------



## firecat1981

Slow and unsteady wins the race, lol.

I decided on a final adjustment on the console design and push on.

Scribing parts to cut.

20190227_124340_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Sides, back, and middle panel cut and screwed together to see how it fits. 

20190227_153640_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm laminating a few scrap pieces to make the front open access for the tank. Should be done in a few days. I need to sand and prime under the console area before I put it in or it will be a pain. I'm also trying to decide how I will mount some of the electric bits under the console. I might add some spacers and make a board to screw into them to mount stuff on.


----------



## Cut Runner

Looks good fc, I like the angle of the console.
I'm sure your aware but if that front seat completely covers the fuel tank (opening hatch or not) your going to have to run a vent hose. That is unless it's one of those pos non venting cans.


----------



## Cut Runner

But even then I think it still wont pass coast guard regs


----------



## firecat1981

USCG regs say for a portable tank in a compartment you must have 15 square inches open to atmosphere for every cubic foot of compartment space. The front face of the seat will have a 24"x 14.5" opening, or 348 Sq inch opening. The volume is roughly 3.8 cu ft under the seat, and is sealed off from the rest of the console. So it should pass inspection with ease I would think.

And yes it's a new non venting, ballooning tank.


----------



## firecat1981

Here is the front of the console cut out. I'll just slide it forward 6 inches to expose the fill each time. Simple as it gets. The tank will slide a few inches further back then it is now once the blocks behind it are removed.

20190302_173035_resized , on Flickr

Not much else to show right now. I'm tacking the console together and pt the last supports on the front gutters. Next is to make the deck for it.


----------



## firecat1981

So the direction I took on the gas tank was initially inspired by the boston whaler 15'. I saw it again yesterday at a show.

20190302_124138_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The boat was rigged with a 60hp like I'll have on mine. The rep said the boat tops out at 34mph and gets almost 8mpg. Being the dry weight of the whaler is 950lbs, or 450+lbs more then my skiff will be, I'm hopeful to see similar or better numbers.


----------



## firecat1981

Working on some small things now. I filleted the inside of the console and will glass it soon.

20190308_165211_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Now I'm working on sanding and some mild fairing of the various compartments. I'm not going nuts here since you won't see most of this often, but I do want to smooth some things out to make cleaning easier and get rid of any super rough surfaces to avoid getting snagged on. Also I wanted to smooth out any surface that might have something mounted or bolted through it.

20190308_165245_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## DuckNut

If you do a 2 minute sand job and then apply a wood sealer you can apply your epoxy and the wood won't swell to give you the snags. It will change the color of the wood though.


----------



## firecat1981

The snags are from the fiberglass, especially the 12ox biaxial specified for most of the build. Pretty much every inch of this boat is coated in a layer of glass, or at least resin with a mix of fibers. I've had checking happen in the past so I don't like to just neat coat.

I'll tell you that I doubt I'll ever use this kind of biaxial again. The weave is so open, and stitching so rough, that sanding and fairing are both a pain, and take way more material then should be needed. On my last skiff I used 1700, even though it was heavier, it had a tight weave and ultimately took less work and resin.


----------



## DuckNut

By the looks or it FC you have 45/45 and yes the thread used to stitch it together sucks.

I learned that a long time ago and never use 45/45, only 0/90


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## firecat1981

The 45/45 is what is speced. But it's not the thread that's bothers me so much, it's the open weave. It's almost like someone tugged randomly on every 3-4 strands of glass. Maybe it's just the quality of the company I ordered from. 
Like I said the 1700 I used before was nice and uniform, easy to fair, and I felt made a better bond. In the future I might look for a different type, or go with 1200 biaxial, which I'd think is the same, but apparently not.


----------



## Brett

Whaler! Whaler! Whaler!

I'm still watching...got nothing to add...just letting you know, eh?


----------



## joelp86

awesome build. subscribed.


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## firecat1981

Someone a while back asked me how my hatched will drain. Well here you go, simple as can be right.

20190320_115334_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I made a template for the front deck and bow and cut it out. The hatch still needs to be cut down for clearance.

20190329_144312_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190329_161456_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I think OQ asked me about how I'm securing the gas tank. I have 1.5" webbing and buckles similar to what I've used in the past. However I could not find the little plastic brackets I used last time, so I'll need to make my own.

I made a simple open mold using popsicle sticks stacked up and covered in packing tape.

20190329_113038_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I did a test and it came out well, but wasn't beefy enough. So I'm laminating 8 layers of scrap cloth with a layer of biaxial tossed in the middle for good measure. When it's done I'll cut them into maybe 5/8" strips and bond them down. I added some white pigment to the resin, reason is the brackets on the floor will have the tank sliding over them. So this way if they get scratched it will hardly be noticeable.

20190329_120726_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

I popped the brackets from the mold and I'm pretty happy with them. They feel stout, and are nice and low profile. I cut them into roughly 3/4" strips. I just need to sand them a little and then bond them down.

20190330_103424_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## CodyW

firecat1981 said:


> I popped the brackets from the mold and I'm pretty happy with them. They feel stout, and are nice and low profile. I cut them into roughly 3/4" strips. I just need to sand them a little and then bond them down.
> 
> 20190330_103424_resized , on Flickr


Those turned out nice!


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## firecat1981

Thanks,

I tacked down the console yesterday and I'm working on adding supports and filleting/taping it in place. 

So a question came up about how I'm running my fuel lines. I have a 1" chase running from the front of the console where the tank is, to the rear bilge area where the water separator is located. It goes through the dividing wall, and will be sealed with 5200 so the tank will be completely isolated from the batteries and components.

Here it is dry fitted. I cut 1/4" pvc spacers to use to lock it into place where it goes through the wall.

20190402_143036_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190402_143046_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

I was about to work on gluing down the casting deck, but realized it would be really hard to paint certain areas once I did it. So I primed the front compartments, and will paint in a few days. 

20190411_201450_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm also working on the console. I added a few supports, and sanded then mounted my brackets for the fuel tank.

20190411_201539_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here's how the tank will fit. I'm pretty satisfied with the brackets, they seem to be very secure.

20190411_201749_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## Battfisher

firecat1981 said:


> I was about to work on gluing down the casting deck, but realized it would be really hard to paint certain areas once I did it. So I primed the front compartments, and will paint in a few days.
> 
> 20190411_201450_resized , on Flickr
> 
> I'm also working on the console. I added a few supports, and sanded then mounted my brackets for the fuel tank.
> 
> 20190411_201539_resized , on Flickr
> 
> Here's how the tank will fit. I'm pretty satisfied with the brackets, they seem to be very secure.
> 
> 20190411_201749_resized , on Flickr


What did you prime your hatches with? I need to do the same thing on my highsider rebuild before I put the decks on. I hate to mix a quart of 2 part epoxy primer for 2 small areas since I won't be ready to prime the rest of the interior for several weeks.


----------



## firecat1981

I used a 2 part epoxy primer, lol. Why would you mix a whole quart? Just mix a smaller batch along the same ratio like I did here. 

This is system 3 sivertip primer, but I don't recommend it. It took a 7.5oz batch for each coat and still had plenty left over. It's a thin primer, I think 4 coats might get you a 3mil thickness. I'm using it because I have it left over. 

I just ordered some totalboat total protect primer, similar to interlux interprotect 2000 from my understanding, and I hope it's much better. It's supposed to do a 2mil thickness per coat, so you can actually finish sand it.


----------



## Battfisher

Oops - I guess that's like saying I have to mix up my epoxy a gallon and a half at a time. I've got Interlux Epoxy Primekote - and this is (obviously) my first stab at boat painting.


----------



## firecat1981

You'll be fine. Just mix it along the required ratio. Also pay attention to the induction time!

In between coats I would put the pot in the fridge, in the Florida heat it kicked over an our early on me so I only got 2.5 hours out of the pot instead of the 4 advertised.


----------



## firecat1981

I moved on to painting the primed compartments. I went to use the interlux perfection I mixed up before, but the catalyst had completely gelled even though it was in a sealed container. I opened the second kit I had, which is brand new, and the catalyst was thicker then I remembered but usable. Even after thinning it the paint was thicker then the last time I used it. Because of this it did not self level much so I have a lot of tiny bubbles. Luckily since it's in this area no one will really notice. I'll have to order more, and hope it is a fresh batch.

I custom mixed his color to match the rest of he hull. Since perfection doesn't come in light blue.

20190414_134602_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I glassed the underside of the front deck, and I'll bond it down in a few hours. I added extra glass in the void areas to ensure I won't have a flexing issue again.

20190414_151940_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

I bonded down the front deck while it was still green. This is my preferred method. In the past I would let it fully cure, then set it in place. That works, but if you don't glass it on a very flat surface you might end up fighting a bow. Setting it in place to be bonded while it's dry to the touch, but still not fully cured, lets the glass cure in the exact shape of the deck.

20190416_110415_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I got overly ambitious with the router a while back and did the whole edge, forgetting I had a deck to install. So I had to fill that small gap. Then I rounded the top edge and bulkhead. It needs a bit of sanding, like where the router couldn't get on the far ends of the bulkhead, but I think it came out pretty well.

20190419_151241_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I then turned my attention to building the rear hatch gutters. I ended up buying a router table to make my life easier, and it is great. I'll finish these up and get them installed this week sometime.

20190417_124957_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190419_151114_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Panamakid

FireCat, I am making a front deck and I am following your report. Thanks for the detailed photos. I have some questions. What kind of wood are you using for the square pucks that you glued to the hull that the deck will sit on? Are they glassed or just coated in epoxy?


----------



## firecat1981

No problem, thanks for following along as I stubble through everything, lol.

The small cleats are just pine blocks. For the longer ones I use the better select pine, but these are just cheap 1x2's I cut up. Pine is not the best option in boats building, but if it is encapsulated in epoxy then it works just fine.
That being said, that is why I have taken to heating the wood prior to coating it in resin. It then draws in the epoxy much deeper. Once cured, I'll usually install them, and then do another coat of epoxy mixed with some milled fibers. This adds protection, and keeps the wood from checking.
It sounds complicated, but if you make a bunch of them to use it might take you an hour to cut, sand, heat, and coat a few dozen.


----------



## firecat1981

I finished building the rear gutter structures and installed them. I cut a slot in the bulkhead you can't see in the pics for the gunnel edge to sit in when I install it later. If memory serves the opening is 14"x10.5". I made them so they were 1" bigger each way then my plastic hatches on my other boat. They work well, but I always said I wouldn't mind if they were a hair bigger.

20190420_122631_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

installed

20190423_122704_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I ordered this clear shrink tubing kit off amazon a bit ago. I want to label some of my stuff since I don't exactly follow ABYC colors (good ol' red and black work just fine). I'm just testing it out here, I cut up a flyer I had near by, so the wording is just coincidental. I'll use actual printed labels on the boat.

20190419_194923_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## bryson

firecat1981 said:


> I ordered this clear shrink tubing kit off amazon a bit ago. I want to label some of my stuff since I don't exactly follow ABYC colors (good ol' red and black work just fine). I'm just testing it out here, I cut up a flyer I had near by, so the wording is just coincidental. I'll use actual printed labels on the boat.
> 
> 20190419_194923_resized , on Flickr


I did this exact same thing when I rewired my Hewes since I just bought a spool of Ancor duplex wire rather than getting different colors for different wires. It's very helpful -- it takes a little extra time, but it's definitely worth it.


----------



## firecat1981

The rear gutters are bonded in place and nice and stout. I sanded a bit, then routed the opening where the water will be channeled into the motor well cover, before being drained out the rear.

20190425_111924_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I can't move on much more until I get the gunnels sorted out. The side supports/rod holders have been done for a while, but I had a 75" span to the front of the casting deck. I am adding 2 more supports there, but they will be floating to hopefully keep with the aesthetics of what I'm looking for. If I see a need I can add more supports later on.

20190425_140320_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Being bonded in place

20190425_142729_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I was going to do just a single layer of 3/8" for the gunnel lip, then decided to cap it off with some 1/4" I have left over, but now I decided to go with a double layer of 3/8" for added stiffness. it will be 2.5" tall. The actual gunnel will be 9" wide.


----------



## Guest

Lookin good sir!


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## makin moves

Moving along! Looking good.


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## Panamakid

FireCat, do you glass the hatch gutters or just coat them in epoxy?


----------



## firecat1981

Neither yet. I'm going middle of the road with them. They will get a heated neat coat, then structural fillets, and then a coat or 3 of epoxy mixed with a generous amount of milled fibers. Should make them more then strong enough, and keep them from ever checking.


----------



## firecat1981

Kinda jumping ahead on different projects, but they all intertwine so I need to do certain parts at different times. That being said I'm working on the gunnel rail now.

I made a little jig so I could use the router to level and shorten the supports. I cut them down to 8.25" so after the rail and cap is on they will be roughly 9" wide.

20190501_115145_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Cut and leveled. And slots cut in the bulkheads.

20190501_125522_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I had to clear off the work table so I could make a jig to cut the 2.5" rails. Then I routed the edge, and bonded 2 of the 8ft sections together.

20190501_205022_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Had to make a run to the store, cause the clamps I was going to use were just too short. So now I'm bonding the first of 2 layers of 3/8". I had to adjust the pressure on the clamps so I limited the flat spots. I think it's coming out well. Excuse the mess, that's all the crap from my packed work table.

20190502_121713_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190502_121740_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## Cut Runner

I like where this is going!
Funny how every boat we build or rebuild gets more and more extravagant isnt it?


----------



## makin moves

Cut Runner said:


> I like where this is going!
> Funny how every boat we build or rebuild gets more and more extravagant isnt it?


Its the "you know what I'm going to do next time" syndrome


----------



## firecat1981

This boat is getting ridiculous, lol. This might turn me back to gheenoe's and bass fishing.


----------



## Cut Runner

Or even, gasp an aluminum boat


----------



## Guest

Cut Runner said:


> I like where this is going!
> Funny how every boat we build or rebuild gets more and more extravagant isnt it?


It’s a sickness! We should all be on SSI lol!


----------



## devrep

firecat1981 said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I tacked down the console yesterday and I'm working on adding supports and filleting/taping it in place.
> 
> So a question came up about how I'm running my fuel lines. I have a 1" chase running from the front of the console where the tank is, to the rear bilge area where the water separator is located. It goes through the dividing wall, and will be sealed with 5200 so the tank will be completely isolated from the batteries and components.
> 
> Here it is dry fitted. I cut 1/4" pvc spacers to use to lock it into place where it goes through the wall.
> 
> 20190402_143036_resized , on Flickr
> 
> 20190402_143046_resized , on Flickr


you're gonna play hell getting and decent diameter fuel line thru that 1" double sweep. rubber doesn't pull that well anyway.


----------



## firecat1981

devrep said:


> you're gonna play hell getting and decent diameter fuel line thru that 1" double sweep. rubber doesn't pull that well anyway.


The 3/8" A1 I tried fed through ok. If I went with 3/4" PVC it would have been a big issue.


----------



## DuckNut

Lube up the fuel line if it get tough to pull.

Interesting bow.


----------



## Brett

Never had a problem pulling a line through a smooth tube.
Shop vac pulled a string through, then heavier cord with the string.
Electricians lube or cheap liquid soap will make most rubber, vinyl or plastics
more than slippery enough to pull through.


----------



## firecat1981

So not to much done recently as I've been out of state on vacation. I did get to add the second layer on the gunnel rails.

20190508_121357_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It was harder to do this then the rub rails as it's a concave curve, but luckily I had enough clamps. They came out somewhat close, well close enough for me, lol.

20190522_120541_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190522_120556_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm working on a bunch of small stuff now.


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## BassFlats

Looking nice Firecat. It brings back some fond and un-fond memories of my past builds. Someone told me years ago that 90 percent of boat building is sanding, not far from the truth. Its going to be beautiful.


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## firecat1981

Thanks. Honestly the sanding part goes pretty quickly for me since I'm not going for show boat status. There are plenty of hiccups and blemishes. I'm going for a 20/20 finish, looks good from 20ft and 20mph, lol. 95% of my time now is waiting for epoxy to dry.


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## State fish rob

Great job. Enjoyed very much


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## firecat1981

Plugging away. I'm working on adding more cleats, and the console now. I Laminated the top and face where the controls will go. The top is 5/8" thick, and control surface is 7/8" thick.

20190529_100731_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I see a lot of consoles that have bolt heads peppered across the sides. To avoid this I made a board to mount my electronics and such to.

20190529_125156_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It will sit off of the side and be attached with screws to 4 blocks. Below you can see the blocks on the left side. The 2 other blocks on the right side are for mounting the clips to hold the anchor light. I figured it's pretty much wasted space so might as well use it for something.

20190529_135913_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Well kind of a wasted week. I actually took a vacation day to try and get some stuff done, but I came up short on my plans. The weather rolling in this week did not help. With it raining outside and the garage door shut most of the way, temps inside hit 105. Not ideal for priming or general survival, lol.

Alas, some progress is better then none right? So I did down and dirty fairing job on the rear storage, and live well. Then primed them as well as the inside of the console.

20190606_104445_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190606_104500_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After priming I noticed a bunch of pinholes still in the sides of the live well so I made a loose mix of fairing compound and squeegeed it in. This should finish up the inside prior to painting. I drilled the hole for the LED light too.

20190607_105155_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The last structural part that really needed to be installed was the forward motor well support. I glassed it and added a cleat that will run the top and add support for the rear of the casing deck.

20190607_105603_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Soooo, Paint...... I went to go paint the primed areas and to my disappointment when I opened the catalyst for the Interlux Perfection, it was solid gel. The same thing that happened to the first kit I had. My guess is even after resealing it once it has been exposed it has a short shelf life in a hot garage. It's a bit annoying cause now I have to order more, and it has cost me about $150 to paint just the front compartments. I'll have to plan my painting out better and maybe keep the leftovers in the house.


----------



## permitchaser

@firecat1981 that build looks great. I like what your doing with the wiring, I think I understand what you doing. I know my wiring under my console looks like spaghetti but everything works


----------



## BassFlats

Nice looking livewell. How many gallons do you think it holds. It helps to place a sheet of plastic (home depot bag) on top of the paint can before sealing the lid back on. I haven't had a problem with expensive 2 part paints gelling up after the initial opening.


----------



## firecat1981

If memory serves I think I calculated it to be around 10 gallons.

The paint cans are still fine, it's the catalyst that gelled, and that comes in a twist top container. When I opened it it was slightly pressurized, like a soda, so I know the seal was intact. I think the issue is more heat related as my garage gets full blast afternoon sun.


----------



## firecat1981

permitchaser said:


> @firecat1981 that build looks great. I like what your doing with the wiring, I think I understand what you doing. I know my wiring under my console looks like spaghetti but everything works


I'm still going to have a bit of spaghetti going on, just trying to make it somewhat serviceable.


----------



## firecat1981

Here is the last support bonded and filleted in place. The top of it will help support the back of the rear casting deck, and the bottom will support the motor well cover.

content_%2F%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook.fileprovider%2Foutlookfile%2Fdata%2Fdata%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook%2Fcache%2Ffile-download%2Ffile-191605718%2F20190609_152013_resized%5B559%5D https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

As far as the paint goes, I've been reading up on the Interlux Perfection. There is a warning on the supplemental information, NOT the can, about using it quickly after opening it. I've also read many complaints online about it, and they will not sell the hardener separately. Soooo I'll have to make a choice here. I can choose to go another route, it will cost me a day or 2 of sanding and taping I think. Or I can continue on knowing that I'll only have 2-3 weeks after opening each kit, and for every touch up I'll need to buy a new $75 kit.
I like the primer I'm using and I believe I can use nearly any top coat system over it, so I just need to pick one.


----------



## DuckNut

Why not use bilge paint for the insides?

See your other thread for suggestion


----------



## Battfisher

Watching for the paint decision. I’m ready to prime and paint the hull of my ‘79 Gheenoe, then flip and do the same for my remodeled interior. I have Interlux Epoxy Primekote for primer - is there something better/easier? Roll and tip.


----------



## Cut Runner

Looking great bud! I know i sound like a broken record but you should try awlgrip products. I can get you a really good deal on them thru my account if it's the cost that's swaying you away from using it. 
Just shoot me a pm if interested


----------



## firecat1981

Thanks DN, I was trying to use something a bit more stout this go around, but I might just use some of the tinted rustoleum for the inside of the hatches just to move this thing along. I've seen some local options, but I' rather go full mainstream to avoid anymore issues.

Battfish, it depends on what you want to spend? If it's a budget build then there are several 1-part paints that will work ok, like brightsides. If you want to spend a bit more, but have a very durable finish then the interlux perfection worked well, as long as you can use all you need within a few weeks. If you want the best finish then I'm getting recommendations between Awlgrip, and Emc/Quantum paint.

Thanks Cut! Honestly it's not the cost that is the issue, it just bothers me to keep having to rebuy things. The Marine Epoxy I bought turned out to be less then satisfactory so I had to rebuy 6 gallons of FGCI. The HBN for the bottom failed to impress, so I had to redo everything with tinted graphite. The silvertip primer turned out to be not high build like it was previously advertised, so now I switched to Total Protect, similar to interprotect 2000 but from jamestown distributors. I like it so far and it is high build. 

Long story short, I've now wasted over a grand on failed material for this boat.

So, now I am leaning towards going to Awlgrip. However I am also getting high recommendations for the Emc/Quantum, especially for rolling and tipping. 

The only other option I have is to keep on with the Perfection. I've been reading up on the issue and it seems guys have figured out a workaround. After the catalyst is opened, they spray a gas (argon, co2, mapp...) in to it to displace the oxygen prior to sealing the cap back on. Then refrigerate it. Guys are able to get months out of it this way. 

I'm not 100% on which way I will go. Cheapest, easiest and fastest is sticking with perfection. Best is probably Awlgrip, followed closely by Quantum. Analysis Paralysis again!


----------



## Cut Runner

Tell me how much of what color awlgrip you want , reduce etc and I'll get a price for you. Might suprise you... I get a REALLY good discount


----------



## firecat1981

I'll hit you up in a bit, thanks. 

I have a concern about the repairability, but I guess it's no different then the perfection.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm still contemplating my paint choices. Awlgrip is great and can be rolled and tipped, but it's not repairable, or buffable. Meaning if you goof up the job, or smack a crusty dock (which I have), your out of luck. Awlgrip is buffable, but I'm not set up well for spraying. So I am leaning towards going with EMC/Quantum. It is well suited to rolling, and is buffable/repairable. I'm still looking into it, but the guys on THT seem to like it so far.

Outside of that, and as a cost savings measure, I decided to just use rustoleum again for the bilge, inside of console, and rear compartments. I already have some tinted a light blue, it doesn't match, but it's close enough. It held up well enough on my last boat so I'm not worried.
The hull, interior, deck, and live well will get the good stuff, however I think to save some money I'll just make it all one color, instead of a cream non skid.

I am doing some small things to set up for the bigger stuff. Right now I'm just gluing some extra cleats/tabs to help me bond things. Not really needed, but why not.
content_%2F%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook.fileprovider%2Foutlookfile%2Fdata%2Fdata%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook%2Fcache%2Ffile-download%2Ffile-2042080214%2F20190612_114942_resized%5B563%5D https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

One last thing. I may have jumped the gun on priming the live well. I realized the hatch design I had in mind won't work with the hinges I have. Not a huge deal, but I need to grind a little at the top, so I'll be repriming it.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

Did you mention THT? Blasphemy!


----------



## firecat1981

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Did you mention THT? Blasphemy!


Yep, Sure did. Tons of guys there that rebuild larger boats, some professionally. Mostly a bunch of jackasses (don't ever listen to a guy with sn tunnels), but some have decent insight.


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## Smackdaddy53

firecat1981 said:


> Yep, Sure did. Tons of guys there that rebuild larger boats, some professionally. Mostly a bunch of jackasses (don't ever listen to a guy with sn tunnels), but some have decent insight.


I used PPG two part urethane to spray a console several years ago and it still looks new. I shot the hull with it but the hull was aluminum. It still looks great and has always been used in saltwater.


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## firecat1981

If I were spraying I'd have a few more options, but roll and tipping not so much.


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## firecat1981

I finally decided on a path forward with the remaining hatches. I scribed everything out and will finish cutting it out later on.

content_%2F%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook.fileprovider%2Foutlookfile%2Fdata%2Fdata%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook%2Fcache%2Ffile-download%2Ffile--1681151018%2F20190613_130220_resized%5B573%5D https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I moved forward with the first coat of paint for the storage, bilge, and under console. I was playing with it by adding pigment before, and it came out a much darker blue then I anticipated. I'm not a fan, so my next coat will be a much lighter blue. it is nice to see things all one color, even if it is just coated rough glass.

content_%2F%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook.fileprovider%2Foutlookfile%2Fdata%2Fdata%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook%2Fcache%2Ffile-download%2Ffile--1748259882%2F20190613_154008_resized%5B571%5D https://www.flickr.com/photos/1444494[email protected]/, on Flickr

content_%2F%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook.fileprovider%2Foutlookfile%2Fdata%2Fdata%2Fcom.microsoft.office.outlook%2Fcache%2Ffile-download%2Ffile--1714705450%2F20190613_154020_resized%5B572%5D https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

So I'm done painting the rear compartments, bilge, and inside of the console. The lighter blue is much better. I also secured the fuel chase.

 , on Flickr

on Flickr

I'm cutting out the parts I laid out before. Admittedly my biggest issue is motivation right now, but I'm still doing at least some small stuff each week. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the quantum paint, The Awlgrip's lack of repairability has me worried.


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## firecat1981

I'm working on the motivation thing, lol. That being said my summer allergies kicked in this last week so I'm fighting sneezing while trying to work too. It's all good though as I did get some work done. 

I finalized a plan for the live well hatch and console hatch. These don't need drains, but did provide a challenge because the gutters provided a recess for the nuts and washers on the backside of the hinge. I think I worked it out. 

Live well 

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Live well edge routed

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The console door. The right side, hinge side obviously, is deeper for a reason. 

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I decided I wanted to add a gasket to this hatch to keep any small amounts of water out during rain or washings. The hinges were the issue. I cut 2 holes for a recess for the nuts on the backside. I'll bond filler parts on the backside. You can see the holes in the picture below of the parts being bonded.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also glassed the bottom side of the console seat so I can bond it down soon.


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## BassFlats

I just watched Boatworks Today on youtube and Andy test Alexseal 2 part polyurethane paint and thought highly of it. It might help you with your paint decision.


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## firecat1981

BassFlats said:


> I just watched Boatworks Today on youtube and Andy test Alexseal 2 part polyurethane paint and thought highly of it. It might help you with your paint decision.


I saw that. One panel came out good, the other not so much. I've looked up a lot of reviews and they seem mixed at best. Guys either like it, or hate it. I think I'm going to stick with quantum.

Honestly though, I somewhat wish I just stuck with a one part paint. After 8 years of abuse my skiff is ready for a paint job, but it was just painted with interlux brightsides and Rustoleum decks.


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## BassFlats

If you are happy with the 1 part paint stick with it. Its easy to recoat and touch up.


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## firecat1981

My concern is the non skid I'm doing this time will not hold up under heavy foot traffic with a single component paint. And it also developed tiny bubbles along the waterline when we vacation for a week or more. Those are the reasons I switch to a catalyzed paint.


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## BassFlats

Yep. You can't leave single part paint in the water for an extended period of time.


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## firecat1981

I got the seat top bonded down.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Then turned my attention back to the console door. I cut out 2 circles that will be the backings for the recesses. and then bonded them in place. So the back may look less then smooth. Reason is I was trying to work out a warp by adding glass and weighting it down. It took some of it out, but not fully. It's ok I have another idea to correct it later on.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here are the recesses almost finished. Kinda looks like an old tv.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I realized that the hatch lip for the live well needed a recessed cut to fit right. This was a hindsight 20/20 situation. I made a guide using a 1x2 and a few scraps of 3/8" plywood to get a perfect cut in the middle. Then used the router in the middle as far as I could, the rest I cut slightly deeper with a multitool. Reason being that I will weight the middle while bonding so it is perfect and then fill the small gaps if they exist towards the sides later. Here's the live well cut down.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The hatch cover/lip set in place. The panel is over sized a little so I can route it later to create a perfect edge.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

More to come soon.


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## Cut Runner

Looking good! It's always a struggle to stay motivated , especially in this oppressive heat. Seeing color go down definately helps!


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## firecat1981

Thanks Cut. I'll get there.

I've been trying to figure out how to bond the plastic tabs I got to clean up some wiring. They came with foam tape, which will fail after a few months near the water, so I peeled it off which was a PITA! I decided to test a few. I cleaned them up and gave a quick sanding to the backs. Then I Fame treated 2 of them as recommended before. I only had 4200 on hand so that's what I used. Only one of the small tabs came loose after a few hard tugs, it was not flame treated so maybe that is the reason, or maybe it was just chance. Either was it took maybe 15-20lbs of pressure on several pulls for it to fail. It shouldn't get near that on the boat. The others aren't coming lose no matter how hard I pull, The plastic will break before the bond.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I figured out the depth on the console door was not going to allow the latch for the door to grab. So I added a block. I'm using a Gemlux compression latch there that is lockable.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So this is what I needed to do to get the panel to sit somewhat flat. I'll have to tweak the door when I make the later on too.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

And the console hatch panel somewhat smoothed out. I can now start grinding on the rest of the console to smooth and glass.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## DuckNut

4200 takes like a week for full cure so it would probably be fine.

If you are using a mounting board, can't you add a screw to assist?


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## firecat1981

On the mounting board only I could, but not in the areas these will be mostly used. The 4200 I used is the fast cure, I let it sit for a day so it should have been close. I'll use 5200 for the final mounting so I'm sure it will work out.


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## noeettica

Why don't you Tough Coat the interior ?

I have it on the Alumacraft it is great !!!

https://tuffcoatmarine.com/


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## firecat1981

I like the look of the shaker non skid style, otherwise I'd just use kiwi grip.


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## firecat1981

So as I'm getting to the end of this build and looking to start the rigging I'm realizing more and more some of the ideas I set in motion long ago to make things easier won't work out. Some of it is wiring, some other things. Nothing that can't be worked out thankfully.

This is where I originally intended to mount the fuel/water separator/filter, but realized the bus bars and posts would be mounted closer then I feel comfortable with.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Luckily the mounting holes are drilled in the wall that separates the storage compartment. So I can just switch it to the otherside. This actually works out well, it gives easier access to the filter, and doesn't interfere with any of the storage area.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So it was time to shape up the console. using a sander, router, and grinder with a flap wheel I rounded off the edges. I think it looks pretty good and fits the boat well. I'll glass it soon.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

I'm working on a few things now. Mostly trying to figure out some of the wiring before I get to far down the rabbit hole and can't reach places easily. I haphazardly drilled the holes for the cockpit lights, and one that will live in the bilge. So in case I need to check the bilge at night all I have to do is open the hatch. I have 2 holes, one for the LED you can see there, and one to pass the wires to the next support. These are Oznium superlux 4 chip LED's, very bright for the size.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The battery trays are installed under the console. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I had to go load up on some stainless steel. $30 down about $100 more to go, lol.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm starting to mock up the electric. After I flipped the water filter around I drilled holes for the 2 power posts and a negative bus bar.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Then I started lining up what will go under the console. This was the mounting board I made out of 3/8" plywood. My switch panel has an integrated fuse block so I can keep things simple. So just the battery switch, ACR, and a positive and negative bus bar.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

More to come soon.


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## firecat1981

I started the wiring for the LED's. So I'll have green in the cockpit, blue in the livewell, and a white one in the bilge for emergencies. I might add another white one to the forward compartments where the life jackets are. I had to do this here because it would have been a bit more difficult to make all the splices once the rear deck is on. I'm not a fan of having multiple splices in a run, but this was the best way. I spoke with Oznium and they suggested I run them parallel for best performance, instead of in series.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Then I bonded down the rear deck/livewell hatch. I'll do the rest of the rear deck later this week if I have time.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Cut Runner

Looks great! You'll be painting before you know it!


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## Zika

Looking good, FC. Won't be too much longer.


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## firecat1981

Thanks guys, I've made some more progress that I'll post up in a few days. I'm down to using every scrap I have as I never tossed out a piece of wood no matter how oddly shaped. Working on the gunnels and rear deck now.


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## firecat1981

I finished bonding down the rear deck parts and the gunnels. I had to do it in multiple parts for a few reasons. The main one was I'm pretty much out of large sheets of plywood so I'm down to using scraps. I was advised I would not need the extra sheets of ply when I started, and while I'll be ok, I'm having to do certain parts like these in ways I did not intend.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I sanded and then straight routed the rear deck, gutters, and inside of the gunnels. I'll round them over later on.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I didn't finish the outside edge because I need to fill the gap between the rub rail and decks. So I didn't want to use my good FGCI resin for the gap filling, and I had gallons of the Marine epoxy around so I decided to try it again. It did not go well. I had all the same issues, I would mix up 3oz batches, the first was 4.5oz and cooked off so fast I couldn't use it. With the 3oz batches I got about 3-5 minutes of work time. I had issues with bubbling again as well. I ended up making more of a headache for myself as I'll have to grind a bunch of it away. Live and learn. I'm tossing it in the trash soon and buying a few more gallons of FGCI.


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## firecat1981

I decided to tuck the trolling motor plug under the gunnel to give it a bit more protection. Cut out and fitted.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Then I made the nose piece. It's 3/8", with a 1/4" backing plate, and then a 1/4" cleat for the trolling motor.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I goofed up. I misread my own marks and glued down the cleat for a right sided TM when I want it on the left. So I scabbed in another Piece to make up the difference.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I prewired for the Trolling motor and Nav lights. I went with #8 for the trolling motor. Might be over kill, but why not.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So my boat, like most FS17's, got the droopy nose syndrome. It's not a big deal, but if I clamped it tight it would curve the bow gunnel and effect the trolling motor. So I clamped the back, but let the front hang naturally, I'll fill the gap later on.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## bryson

Thanks for sharing your progress! Have you had issues with all of the Marine Epoxy, or just a certain batch? I'm about to purchase some resin fairly soon. Was leaning towards US Composites but was considering Marine Epoxy too.


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## firecat1981

All 9 gallons I bought so far is giving me issues. I've decided that if I'm using epoxy then I'm not switching away from FGCI from now on!
I haven't tried US composites, I haven't heard of any issues like others have had with the Marine Epoxy.


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## Chris Beutel

She is coming along nicely. That is so crazy that you're having so many issues with the Marine Epoxy. I have used probably 10 gallons and have not had any issues. I primarily used the slow and tropical hardener and usually had plenty of time to run my fillets and filler. Most of the time it was in the high 80's too. You are definitely on the home stretch. Looking forward to your launch.


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## BassFlats

I've used west systems (tropical hardener) and totalboat epoxies without problems. Unfortunately the totalboat does not have an extra slow hardener and you have plan to work faster. Some people put the resins in the refrigerator to slow down the process.


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## firecat1981

I'll comment more in a bit, but first a light update.

Bonded down the bow.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm starting the rest of the wiring now. It will be a fairly simple arrangement. I'm not super OCD on the routing, but I want it fairly clean and serviceable. No fuse block as each switch is fused, and the GPS and bilge pump will have their own fuse holders.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm looking at seating position as well. I took my old cooler and put it in the boat to make sure I have enough foot room. At 13.5" of space between the cooler and console I have enough room for even my size 15's. There is still over 16" of room behind the cooler too. I really wanted elevated seating, and wanted to build a nice cedar sided cooler, but I don't want to stall out building something else right now. What I might just do is, well nothing for now. I might just add seadek feet to the cooler I have to keep it from sliding, and not even bolt it down, then revisit it once I get it in the water.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

So as far as the Marine epoxy goes there seems to be 2 camps from the guys I've talked to. Either they used it a bunch and didn't have issues, or they had similar issues and thought it was normal for epoxy because it's all they ever used. 

I have medium hardener, reason. Being it was winter when I got it. That said, even at 70 degrees I couldn't get more then 10 minutes work time and still had the bubbling issues. To make it even usable at 80-85 degrees I kept both jugs in a mini fridge, still with disappointing results.

With FGCI there are no separate formulas for speed in a given ratio. With the 2:1 laminating resin I can get a good 10+ minutes at 85-90 degrees when thickened, and more when wetting out glass. At 75-80 degrees I have all the time I need and It never gets hot Just a bit warm.

If you've used ME and liked it I'm glad. It's just not my choice anymore.


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## seapro17sv

firecat1981 said:


> So as far as the Marine epoxy goes there seems to be 2 camps from the guys I've talked to. Either they used it a bunch and didn't have issues, or they had similar issues and thought it was normal for epoxy because it's all they ever used.
> 
> I have medium hardener, reason. Being it was winter when I got it. That said, even at 70 degrees I couldn't get more then 10 minutes work time and still had the bubbling issues. To make it even usable at 80-85 degrees I kept both jugs in a mini fridge, still with disappointing results.
> 
> With FGCI there are no separate formulas for speed in a given ratio. With the 2:1 laminating resin I can get a good 10+ minutes at 85-90 degrees when thickened, and more when wetting out glass. At 75-80 degrees I have all the time I need and It never gets hot Just a bit warm.
> 
> If you've used ME and liked it I'm glad. It's just not my choice anymore.


First I want to say what a great job you're doing on your build. I'd love to build this hull someday and sell my factory 17 footer that weighs a ton compared to one of these home built skiffs. There's always the possibility you got a bad batch or mislabeled epoxy, but I think it may just be the medium hardener. It seems most guys are using the slow without issues, and all I've ever used is the slow, and now on build number six without any problems, other than one time while glassing my buddy Don's Conchfish on a 90 degree day in the Florida sun. That was a brutal glassing session, working like madmen as the resin would start to kick and turn to jelly. We got it done without wasting much, but I'll never do that again. Looking forward to seeing this one splashed, but I'm sure not as much as you. You do nice work, and You're getting close.


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## FireTurtle

firecat1981 said:


> I really wanted elevated seating, and wanted to build a nice cedar sided cooler, but I don't want to stall out building something else right now.


Couldn't you build a removable storage box for the cooler to sit on top of to elevate the cooler to the desired height? Finish the build & then just build a basic box to fit the space and a frame on it for the cooler to sit in to keep it from sliding. Add a trap door under the cooler or a side door & it would be a good place to store stuff you don't really need other than rare occasions. Kind of like a removable junk drawer for your boat. That way if you want to make a trip without the elevated seat, you can just remove it an just run with the cooler by itself.
Hope that makes sense.


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## firecat1981

I'm looking at several options right now, but building anything will delay me even further. So I want to hold off since I'm over a year behind on this build already. 
There is also the issue raising the center of gravity. Taking a 50+lbs cooler and mounting it a foot or so higher does have its effects. If I build a tall cooler then I can just fill it half way and minimize that, but that would be a massive cooler. 
I want to stew on this for a bit and actually use the boat. Storage shouldn't be an issue on this one, it's got twice the amount I had on my current skiff. 
My 3 year old asks me every day "when are you gonna fix the boat Daddy?" This whole summer we only went fishing twice.


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## firecat1981

seapro17sv said:


> There's always the possibility you got a bad batch or mislabeled epoxy, but I think it may just be the medium hardener.


I think it's a bad batch. Actually I think it's a contaminated batch. Something is kicking it off quickly and causing a chemical reaction when its curing that makes it blow large bubbles. That said I have 2 different batches, and had this problem in temps as low as 65 at night. 
I've also heard from some guys having similar issues with the slow hardener. 
It's just not worth chancing it on what I believe is an inferior product to the FGCI.


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## seapro17sv

firecat1981 said:


> I think it's a bad batch. Actually I think it's a contaminated batch. Something is kicking it off quickly and causing a chemical reaction when its curing that makes it blow large bubbles. That said I have 2 different batches, and had this problem in temps as low as 65 at night.
> I've also heard from some guys having similar issues with the slow hardener.
> It's just not worth chancing it on what I believe is an inferior product to the FGCI.


That's a real bummer. I have not tried the FGCI,. I used some of the Silver Tip on my first build along with all the other products like the Quick Fair, and thought it was excellent, but I definitely can't afford to use it, it was just me trying it since it was my first build.


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## firecat1981

Epoxy's I'm finding are like running shoes. Different guys like different brands and types within the brands. I personally hate Reebok and Nike, but others swear by them......

The FGCI is not much more expensive then ME. I went with the ME initially since it made more sense to order everything at once from one location. 

As far as building the boat goes, I hope I'm really happy with its performance and don't have any issues. If Chris Morejohn had put more of his designs out a few years ago I would have built one instead maybe. As it sits the plan is to finished this skiff and rig it out. If after some use I'm not 95+% happy with it, then I plan to strip her down and build a replacement hull of a different design. Maybe one of my own like the last 2.


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## firecat1981

This damn weather is stalling me out. Where is our typical summer cycle? I'll take afternoon showers over mid day and morning squalls!

Anyway, I've been trying to finish up prepping the cap for glass. I'm filling the outside edges. I would have ground the top of the rub rails flat, but because of the correction I needed to make a while back I had to leave it angled and just fill the gap with thickened epoxy. I used a chunky mix of milled glass and wood four for the bulk of it to add strength, then a final smoother mix of milled glass, microspheres and silica. I should be able to sand it quickly and round it over with the router.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

Plugging along. I glassed the gunnels, rear deck, and bow. It came out pretty good. Even starting at 7pm didn't help much as it was 92 degrees still.

Rubrail edge and hatch gutters routed.

20190823_105357_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Primed

20190823_141707_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Glass laid out.

20190823_190907_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Done.

20190824_134807_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I have a few more spots that need some glass, and then the console. After I'll work on the hatch gutters, and smoothing everything out.


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## Chris Beutel

Looks really good!


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## Cut Runner

Bravo


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## BB FL

Looking good!


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## Copahee Hound

What are you doing for a captains chair? If you said it 2 years ago, sorry I was too lazy to re-read the whole thread. Can’t wait to see the first water test


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## firecat1981

Thanks guys. I'm thinking some sort of elevated cooler seat. I might build a tall cooler, or just go a igloo on a box/frame. I wanted to get it set, then figure it out, not sure if that will work out though.

I didn't have much time this week but got a few things done. I glassed the console. She is rock solid to the floor and will work well.

20190903_065535_resized , on Flickr

So I've had an ongoing saga with the floor flexing towards the rear bulkhead. every other area is either reinforced with foam or extra supports. I'm using 3/8" okoume, with 6oz glass bottom and top. The okoume is so flexible that it took an additional 4 layers of glass to get it to stiffen up. so 30oz total in that area. It's finally stiff enough to move on, it created some high spots I'll need to smooth out, but not a big deal.

20190902_162134_resized , on Flickr

Last thing I got to do was fillet inside of the hatch gutters. I'm using a mix of milled fibers, microshperes, and silica now. I don't think I'll go back to wood flour, unless I need bulk when gluing something in place.

20190902_162202_resized , on Flickr

Pretty much all the glassing is done now. I have some filling and smoothing to do, then fairing.


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## firecat1981

Here's some sloppier stuff. I am starting to do some fairing. I'm not going nuts with it as a perfect finish is not needed. I'm just trying to hide the major stuff. The high build primer I switched to will hide the rest.

First coat on the console.

20190905_161802_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## FireTurtle

You're getting so close now. Can't wait to see you posting pics of it in the water.


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## firecat1981

So after sanding down the fairing mix on the console I pretty much decided, well, I hate fairing. I'm just not into it, lol. Realizing that a lot of the areas really will not benefit from it, I'm choosing to go ghetto. After the initial fairing of the console and sanding of the gunnel tops and comings, I mixed up a slightly thickened batch of epoxy. I rolled it on to fill in the majority of the weave on the gunnels, and pin holes on the console, and it worked well. The primer I'm using now will take care of the rest.

20190912_141621_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I am getting down to the detail stuff like the scupper tubes. If you recall I used glass tubes I bought after someone recommended them. Hindsight I would have rather built my own, they worked, but need some love. They are polyester fiberglass tubes that are extruded and fairly lower quality. As such they have a lot of pock marks and dimples that worry me. I coated them with epoxy on the outside prior to installing them, but really wanted to take care of the insides.

First I made a cheap flap wheel using a 3/8" dowel and 60 grit paper. It worked well when attached to the drill.

20190912_092100_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Then I made a giant double sided q-tip out of a 1" dowel. One side for an alcohol wipe, and one for epoxy.

20190912_093453_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It again worked out well. I used the q-tip to push and swirl epoxy around the whole inside. While the mix was to thin to fill the holes, I'm confident a coating is pretty uniform. Any excess dripped out the back. I still have about an inch coming out the rear I haven't cut off yet, So I zip tied some bags on to catch the extra resin.

20190912_134929_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I worked on smoothing out the hatch gutters, and a few other things. I have to glass the top of the transom and build the lid for the motorwell. Also do some more preliminary wiring. Hopefully I'll be priming the interior in a few week.


----------



## bryson

Interesting about the FG tubes. I was considering them for rod tubes or chase tubes, but had the same concerns. I debated just soaking a cotton ball in resin and pulling it through the tube using a string and a rubber ball or something.

I doubt I'll use it for my chase tubes, but I still plan on using it for things like my drain plug and bilge outlet through-hull fitting. Thanks for sharing your solution.


----------



## firecat1981

For chase tubes they would be fine, but not any better then PVC imo. My issue is they run through a sealed area that I filled with foam, so the have to be water tight.

For a drain plug I would make my own, like I did for my last 3 boats.


----------



## firecat1981

I sanded the inside of the tubes again, this time with a flap wheel of 120 grit, just to knock off any burs or snags. After that I glassed the transom cap, I'm not sure why I didn't do this before. The only component left is the motor well cover, and of coarse the hatch lids.

Right now I'm trying to work on the electrical. There are some things that will be easier if done now since the motor well cover will have just a 10" hatch. 

I bought a lug crimping tool a while back, and I'm glad I did. It's way easier to make my own battery and power cables then to try and order the closest size with different lugs. Main power cables, and positive cables for the ACR.

20190914_164947_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Mounting up all the goodies. The breaker coming out of the bottom of the battery switch will go to the trolling motor.

20190915_065943_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I made the mistake of buying a lot of duplex wire, but really just needed primary. So I had to split it. Not a huge issue, just a little waste. I should be able to mount the power panel now and then run the rest of the wires as a bundle bound every foot or so with electric tape. Hopefully this leaves enough room in the 1.5" chase to snake the wiring harness through.


----------



## Cut Runner

Progress is progress! The more I look at your skiff the more it reminds me of an oldschool abaco/albury style skiff. Beautiful little boats 
Oh, and go to harbor freight and buy the $3 flush cut snip pliers for those zip ties before you get too involved with rigging


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## firecat1981

I like the layout, but have no idea how it will perform or function. I may love it, or immediately start planning an all composite replacement.

Before starting I bought a few new tools. A good set of side cutters, new stripper/crimper, cable cutters, and battery cable lug crimpers. They are making the job a lot easier.


----------



## Zika

Looking good. The Albury comparison was spot on.


----------



## SeaDrifter

I have no idea how I have missed most of this build. Phenomenal craftsmanship!!!



Michael


----------



## firecat1981

Thanks guys. I'm hoping to have it done soon, but man my time is thin these days.

So more electrical rigging. I bound the main power leads, and positive leads for the live well, LED lights, underwater lights, bilge pump and anchor light, with tape so it would slide through easily. And so I would have room to pass the wire harness through for the outboard later.

20190916_160619_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Panel mounted. It will be cleaned up and more secured later on.

20190918_101330_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The bilge will be getting crowded soon, but hopefully very serviceable.

20190918_160912_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190918_160920_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I mounted the clip to hold the anchor light inside the console. 

20190918_101248_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Last thing I got to was the motor well lid. A few layers of glass on the bottom and one on top.

20190918_111620_resized_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20190920_105135_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

More to come.


----------



## DuckNut

Don't forget the drain holes.


----------



## firecat1981

I haven't installed them yet. I've got a few glass tubes I made left over. I'll probably use 2 of the 1/2" ones. It's not super critical that this area drains quickly, and 2 small drains will be enough to deal with any spray or rain.


----------



## firecat1981

Not much has been done the last few weeks. Work and other obligations are getting in the way now.

I did manage about an hour yesterday. I was able to install the drain tubes for the motor well. They were made from a tube I made a while back, but can't remember what it was for. They are about a 1/2" and should be more then enough.

20191005_101303_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'll grind them back later on

20191005_110146_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also bought a new cooler. It's a 94qt igloo which is just about the perfect size for everything. It even has preinstalled snaps for a cushion. Thing is I really want it elevated. I was thinking about a leaning post first, but figure I would rather stand or sit comfortably, and most leaning posts I've dealt with have an awkward reach. So after some play with wood, I think I'm going to create a box to elevate it up about 7" or so. I'll probably use some scrap sanded plywood I have laying around. I'll make large cutouts to keep it relatively light weight.

20191005_120848_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## DuckNut

If you are going to make a platform make a drawer for it and you can store stuff to get it out of the way and still be readily available.


----------



## firecat1981

Since I already have plenty of storage on this boat, the plan is to make it light weight. I'll leave the bottom open, maybe with a bungee going across, and mostly use it to store oddball items like flippers when we go scalloping.


----------



## Cut Runner

^ good idea.
A drawer would leave space under it. We all know funky things grow under coolers on boats , especially when the cooler is rarely removed or drawer in this case. One livebait slides under there without you knowing and you are sure to know when you walk in your garage the next morning.


----------



## firecat1981

After playing around for a bit, I settled on a design for the cooler base.. I think. So using it to help reinforce the floor isn't going to work out well if I want the area under it to be accessible. This is what I came up with. It raises the cooler 7.5" making it very comfortable to me being I'm 6'3". As a bonus it allows my heel to go under the cooler making the standing position better. This might now be a concern to smaller guys, but with a size 15 2E shoe it helps me. This design allows me to store things under it with ease. Like I said the main thing I was looking to do was put our flippers under it for when we go scalloping.

20191010_133127_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20191010_133139_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

These pics are before I routed the edges, so it looks a bit boxy. I went back and forth on what material to use for it, and spent a while at home depot looking for something suitable. The best thing I could find was a laminated pine project panel. It was advertised as 3/4", but turned out to only be 5/8". I'm not sure if I'm going to use it or not. I don't have a ton of ply left so this seemed like the best option.

So, opinions?


----------



## BassFlats

IMO, I don't think you can seal up that laminated pine good enough to keep it from rotting. Your boat looks great. I'm sure you are way passed what you thought the build would cost ( they always are). You're going to have to bite the bullet one more time (hopefully) and get a more suitable boat building material. Unless I missed something and this cooler stand is removable, that is.


----------



## yobata

I don't think you will have any problems with the pine. I believe that you know just as well as anyone on here how to properly seal up wood using epoxy. I Like it! Keep at it!!

The only change I would make to the cooler stand would be to make the cutout on the short sides the same as on the long sides (all the way to the floor), in case you want to reach for those fins from the side


----------



## firecat1981

BassFlats said:


> IMO, I don't think you can seal up that laminated pine good enough to keep it from rotting. Your boat looks great. I'm sure you are way passed what you thought the build would cost ( they always are). You're going to have to bite the bullet one more time (hopefully) and get a more suitable boat building material. Unless I missed something and this cooler stand is removable, that is.


No not removable. I am well versed in using pine for boats, it's not a big issue. Using epoxy and heat you can make pretty much any wood work. If you have any rotting issues it usually means you failed to seal it correctly. I've used pine ply or cleats on all my builds for certain things, never had a rot issue to date. I'd love to find a better material, but to pay freight for a single sheet of ply is not gonna happen.


----------



## firecat1981

yobata said:


> I don't think you will have any problems with the pine. I believe that you know just as well as anyone on here how to properly seal up wood using epoxy. I Like it! Keep at it!!
> 
> The only change I would make to the cooler stand would be to make the cutout on the short sides the same as on the long sides (all the way to the floor), in case you want to reach for those fins from the side


Thanks. The only reason I cut the sides like that is I think it would give the structure more lateral rigidity, in case I add a backrest later.


----------



## firecat1981

So I can't believe it's been 2 weeks since I had a chance to touch the boat. Well not much has changed. I am still working on the cooler stand, I wasn't quite happy with it, and wanted to change it just a little. I did route it just to see what it would look like, and I think it's nice. 

On the choice of materials, I did decide to change. I was in lowes, and found they carry 3/4" Luan panels. It's of similar weight and density to the okoume I'm using, and what I built my first boat out of. I think it will do better then the pine panel and it's actually 3/4" instead of 5/8".

I was working on cutting out and matching the parts using the flush bit on my router, when disaster struck again. The bearing seized again and ruined both parts. It's not a huge deal, or expense, but I'll need to get another panel tomorrow to finish. This is the 3rd bit I've burnt up on this build, at $40 each it's starting to hurt, lol.


----------



## BassFlats

I feel your pain with the router bit. I've had the bolt holding the bearing in place come loose ,and the bearing, ruining the piece I was fabricating.


----------



## yobata

Sometimes the smaller diameter flush cut bits work better for matching parts on thicker panels.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm only using a 1/2" bit. It was cutting fine until the bearing failed. I got a new Bosch bit today, so we will see how it goes.


----------



## Zika

Getting there. Good job.


----------



## firecat1981

So the saga of the cooler rack/stand, lol. 

I first made it out of a project panel and decided I wanted to change it a bit. So I rebuilt it out of luan. Well I had the router bit bearing failure that ruined it, So I bought a new panel. I recut everything, got it all routed and glued together, went to test fit and realized I'm a dumbass! The project panel I originally made it from was 5/8", but the luan is 3/4", so I lost a 1/4". This made it to tight on the edge of the cooler and while it would fit, it would rub and take off any finish I put on. Sooooo I rebuild it a 4th time and made it 3/8" wider.

So now that that's over let me explain how I came to my design. I actually looked at the cooler. So here is a pic of a typical aluminum cooler rack. You'll notice the cooler is only supported by the 2 bars going across the bottom. So for the entire cooler it only has 4 points of contact maybe 1" wide.

20191123_164115 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here is the bottom of the cooler, it looks like it's molded so it has reinforcement around the outer edges.

20191104_103032_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I decided to support the ends and have 3 more 2" wide supports in the middle. The white filled circles towards the bottom are for the bungee cord, just a single one about 1.5" high to keep flippers from sliding out. The end supports have a cutout to feed the strap through to hold the cooler.

20191122_204054_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20191122_204102_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## BassFlats

Practice makes perfect


----------



## firecat1981

Slowly plugging away in between holiday stuff. I smoothed out the floor under the cooler stand then got my measurements. 

Looking at the pics, it looks tight, but not so. I decided to put the cooler 13.75 inches back from the console, this is more then enough room for my size 15's.

20191213_124358_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

There is also more then 16" of room behind the cooler stand. Plenty to walk around.

20191213_130414_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It's now bonded and filleted down, I'll tab it in soon.

20191214_172234_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Happy holidays everyone. Looking forward to a new year with a new boat.

Makin Moves, sent you a message.


----------



## DuckNut

FC, sorry I missed your bit issue.

Hardwoods such as okume create incredibly fine dust and that gets in the bearings. This will create such an intense heat it will kill the bearings.

Softwoods do not create this fine of powder and they will actually burn off unlike the hard stuff.

Happy Hanukkah brother.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm always a bit confused by the definition of hard and soft woods. Like okoume or luan to me would be a very soft wood. It's softer then the pine I'm using for cleats. Now the oak or cherry slabs I might be buying for our dining room table, those are hard woods to me.
Hopefully I'm done with most of the router work, except for under the rubrail.

May the holidays be fruitful to all. I got enough BassPro gift cards to get the PLB I wanted, just in case.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm gearing up for the final push soon. I've been cleaning out some clutter in the garage to make room for the trailer.

Next step it to derig the outboard and TnT from my old boat, sell it off so that money can go to the new trolling motor. After that I have to get rid of the hull so I can use the trailer for the new skiff. Hopefully that will all be done by February.


----------



## GaG8tor

What’s the old hull you have?


----------



## firecat1981

The Plytanic, the one in my avatar pic. She ain't fancy, but she has served me well.


----------



## Guest

firecat1981 said:


> The Plytanic, the one in my avatar pic. She ain't fancy, but she has served me well.


I didn’t read your build thread on the first plytanic, but if built anything like you are building this one... I’d say she has a lot of life left in her!


----------



## firecat1981

Slap some new cheap paint on her and I think she will last. If kept in a garage she will fish the flats for decades more. Honestly I think she's build better then this one, I followed my own path.

Here's the link, but photobucket are being jackasses and holding the quality pics hostage.
https://www.microskiff.com/threads/building-the-plytanic.16663/


----------



## Battfisher

firecat1981 said:


> Slap some new cheap paint on her and I think she will last. If kept in a garage she will fish the flats for decades more. Honestly I think she's build better then this one, I followed my own path.
> 
> Here's the link, but photobucket are being jackasses and holding the quality pics hostage.
> https://www.microskiff.com/threads/building-the-plytanic.16663/


Don't you usually "decommission" your old boats?


----------



## firecat1981

Battfisher said:


> Don't you usually "decommission" your old boats?


Yes, but my wife is guilt tripping me. Since the boat has served us well and proven to be pretty tough (we've admittedly used it in ways far beyond what it was intended), we'd like to find a way for it to live on.


----------



## DuckNut

A flower bed in the front lawn???

In reality, you will find someone who wants it. It is a good boat and a great build. Plus, you have the entire build documented.


----------



## firecat1981

Soooo..... I gots me a new toy! I've wanted to learn welding for years, and thought the removable tongue on the trailer was a great excuse to finally dive in.

PowerTIG 185, it's an AC/DC TIG and stick welder. I'll play with it more next week when I get time to fill the argon tank, but so far messing with stick has been fun. I can make metal stick, just not pretty yet.


----------



## yobata

firecat1981 said:


> Soooo..... I gots me a new toy! I've wanted to learn welding for years, and thought the removable tongue on the trailer was a great excuse to finally dive in.
> 
> PowerTIG 185, it's an AC/DC TIG and stick welder. I'll play with it more next week when I get time to fill the argon tank, but so far messing with stick has been fun. I can make metal stick, just not pretty yet.
> 
> View attachment 110944
> 
> 
> View attachment 110946


Cool! One item that I found to be incredibly helpful was a SELF DARKENING welding helmet. It allows you to not have to flip your helmet up and down every time you start/stop a weld... also, not bad beads for a first timer!


----------



## BassFlats

Soooo, the next plytanic will be aluminum


----------



## Guest

BassFlats said:


> Soooo, the next plytanic will be aluminum


Alumatanic has a nice ring to it!


----------



## firecat1981

yobata said:


> Cool! One item that I found to be incredibly helpful was a SELF DARKENING welding helmet. It allows you to not have to flip your helmet up and down every time you start/stop a weld... also, not bad beads for a first timer!


That was the first thing I picked up, along with some decent gloves, slag hammer, brushes...... I gotta get some better sticks though. The 6013 3/32" I was using needed 80+ amps, but anything above 70 would pop my breaker using 110v. I need to make an extension cord later to use the 220v.

Not looking to build an aluminum boat, yet. Gonna just play around, make this removable tongue for the trailer, and maybe some art for the house....


----------



## Guest

firecat1981 said:


> That was the first thing I picked up, along with some decent gloves, slag hammer, brushes...... I gotta get some better sticks though. The 6013 3/32" I was using needed 80+ amps, but anything above 70 would pop my breaker using 110v. I need to make an extension cord later to use the 220v.
> 
> Not looking to build an aluminum boat, yet. Gonna just play around, make this removable tongue for the trailer, and maybe some art for the house....


Pick up some 7018 and watch a couple videos on how to use them. They are a great confidence builder. They get a little sticky after initial arc strike but you’ll get over that pretty quick. I only use 6011 for vertical stuff “less slag”. I am no pro welder so take it all with a grain of salt but the 7018’s helped me learn and build my confidence.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm going to pick up a variety, but honestly I see myself TIG welding more then stick. I did want to learn stick first though as it's an easier process and I might need it later on.
My issue right now is amperage. Running on 110v I can't do the higher flux/slag numbers. Like the 6013 needs 80+amps to run well, but the 6011 I can run down at 50 amps. I'll play with a bunch of scrap. Ultimately the welding on the trailer is just to hold spacers in place and maybe rebuild the winch stand, so it doesn't need to be to pretty, just functional.


----------



## noeettica

I just tack stuff then take it to my welder . Very inexpensive and I don't
have to worry ... the big buxx is in the layout and pep ...


----------



## firecat1981

Where's the fun in that, lol.

I got a full AC TIG setup so I can eventually to some legit aluminum fabrication..... for the next build maybe.


----------



## firecat1981

As one door closes another opens. The Plytanic is off to her new home. We dropped her in the water and transferred her to my friends trailer. Now it's time to finish up the 2.0

20200130_110048_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I brought the trailer back and started really looking it over. Overall not bad for a trailer that was used near exclusively in salt for the last 9 years.

20200130_120301_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

After removing one of the bunks I discovered the tail edge was starting to develop some rot. Also some of the hardware was rusted.

20200130_124518_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Well I decided anything worth doing, might as well be done right. Or at least the best I could do that evening. I pulled off the brackets and cleaned them up. Only the rear brackets had any real rust on them, So I rotated them to the front.

20200130_155910_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

A little cold galvanizing compound and they should last many more years.

20200130_175059_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I bought some new 2x4's and decided to make them a little longer and angle the rears. I used indoor/outdoor carpet cause that was all I could get on such short notice. Here's the crazy part, my typical luck strikes again! I bought a new staple gun, a power shot, figuring my old one was a little weak. It worked great, until it didn't, which was half of a bunk. Back to HD and I buy the most expensive dewalt stapler they have! After another 1/2 bunk it starts jamming every 3rd staple! I made it work. I think they came out well.

20200130_160342_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20200130_184625_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I relocated the winch to in front of the hinge, just to pull the boat onto the trailer. you can see here the current folding tongue setup obviously will not work with the 17ft boat.

20200130_203656_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

She looks good on the trailer though. To me this is how I want it to fit. Yes it rides a little higher, but the boats beam is just a little wider then the trailer. This means no wasted space in my garage! All the new trailers I looked at were 98" to 105" wide, which seems excessive to me.

20200201_172038_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I plan on doing a separate thread on the trailer mod I'm going to do to make it a removable tongue, while retaining the tilt ability. Not sure how it's going to look, but I think it will be just fine. Here is the chunk of steel I got to make a sleeve. It's 2.5 x 3.5 x 3/16 thick, and 20" long. It might be overkill, but I'm good with that.

20200201_173918_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I drilled 4 holes in it. 2 will bolt to the trailer side, and the other 2 will have pins connecting the tongue/winch side.

20200204_090517_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

With the boat on the trailer I can finally move it out of the garage so I can clean and organize!

20200204_123051_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

More to come in the next few weeks.


----------



## yobata

Awesome!! I have hated every single staple gun I have used except the last one which I bought for $15 - it has worked really well with the same brand stainless staples.


----------



## firecat1981

Well, my welding isn't going so well to say the least, lol. I need to weld on thin fender washers to act as spacers, but welding something that is maybe 16ga at best to 1/8" steel is hard for skilled welders, and hardest to do with a stick welder. I've tried 4 different electrodes and went through amps from 20 up to 100 while practicing. I'm on the welding tips and tricks forum trying to get it sorted out.
I might have to abandon it and go back to figuring out TIG. It seems like a way more usable process for this scenario.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

firecat1981 said:


> Well, my welding isn't going so well to say the least, lol. I need to weld on thin fender washers to act as spacers, but welding something that is maybe 16ga at best to 1/8" steel is hard for skilled welders, and hardest to do with a stick welder. I've tried 4 different electrodes and went through amps from 20 up to 100 while practicing. I'm on the welding tips and tricks forum trying to get it sorted out.
> I might have to abandon it and go back to figuring out TIG. It seems like a way more usable process for this scenario.
> 
> View attachment 116712


Why not just tack them in 2-3 spots instead of a full weld?


----------



## firecat1981

That was the plan for the ones going on the bolted side. Since the tracks would be so thin I don't think they would hold over time on the side that will be removed.


----------



## firecat1981

They say desperation is the mother of invention. Well I had to grind out the ridge left over from welding the sleeve I bought. But how do you grind something in a tube 2" wide and reach 10+" into it. Well this was my solution. I put a dremel on a stick.

20200210_150635_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

It worked good enough.

20200210_150531_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

On to the next issue. The folding tongue section was only 23" long. I could make it work, but it would not be adjustable. Also while it would tow ok, it would be so close I couldn't open my tailgate. Which we use a lot. This pic is before I cut back the longer section.

20200211_105646_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I decided to do it right, and replace the whole front part of the tongue. I looked around for a short piece of 3x2x 1/8", but no place would sell it. I ended up buying a whole 24ft section, but it was actually cheaper then buying a smaller one and having it shipped. With being cut to 8ft sections cost me $87. I'll have a few projects coming up to use it on, plus use part for more welding practice.

20200211_123402_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Sawzall made quick work of the tongue. I shortened it by 8" on the boat side.

20200211_134705_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here is how it will sit. It's hard to tell, but the bow actually sticks out past the sleeve on the tongue by 1.5+ inches.

20200211_135630_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The old tongue was 23" the new one has been extended to 32". This gives me a few inches for fine adjustment of the winch stand and enough to clear my tailgate on my truck.

20200211_144245_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'll button it up in the next few days. Still trying to decide on how I'll run the wiring harness. I have the connectors, but I'm deciding if I want to go on the interior or exterior, or a mix.

Once I finish and make sure it works well I'll do a "how-to" post.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm just about done now with the removable tongue. After fighting it, and learning how to stick weld again, I think it came out pretty good. It's not super pretty, but it works good, and is super solid.

I welded on the 16ga spacer plates. This will get ground down and fitted so the tongue slides into the sleeve.

20200212_193213_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I ground the plates down a little at a time with a flap wheel until it slid into the sleeve, but not so much that there was a lot of play.

20200213_070530_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

With it in the sleeve I began drilling the holes to match.

20200213_070558_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I repeated the process on the boat side of the tongue that will be bolted on. I just welded 2 sides since it won't ever be removed. After that I cut off and rewelded the safety loop from my old tongue. This is a pretty important safety feature I feel.

20200215_142831_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I used some cold galvanizing compound on the bare steel parts.

20200216_152106_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I decided to add a plug so I could disconnect the tongue section. In hindsight it might have been easier to just run it along the outside and just use a velcro strap or something. I can redo it later if I decide to change, it's just wiring.

20200218_120037_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I decided I wasn't thrilled with how the CGC looked, so I used some hammer coat to make it look better.

20200219_090807_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here it is. I need to tighten some things up, but I think it came out pretty good, and is super functional.

20200219_101359_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

With the tongue removed. The pic is deceiving, but the bow sticks out past the end of the sleeve by an inch or 2.

20200219_101505_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here is the front of the wiring harness. It makes no sense to run it inside the tongue as it would need to come back out a ft later. So I think I'll just zip tie it on the outside. Not the best looking option, but I'm a function over form kinda guy. I added a few new grounding points, both here and on the other side of the sleeve, just in case.

20200217_145648 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20200217_151401 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'll have to remeasure it, but the tongue is 32" and is 10" inside the sleeve. Add in the coupler and I think this modification knocks about 27" off the front of the trailer. Like I said I'm going to do a separate how-to in a bit.


----------



## GaG8tor

Nice work


----------



## Panamakid

You could make a second long tongue for beach launches like they do in Australia


----------



## firecat1981

I don't do many beach launches, but I have enough steel to do it.


----------



## GaG8tor

Hey, I was wondering how you made that rub rail. Is it mentioned in your build thread?


----------



## firecat1981

GaG8tor said:


> Hey, I was wondering how you made that rub rail. Is it mentioned in your build thread?


It's much earlier in the build. It's just 3 layers of 1/4" ply. I'll use some kind of commercial rubrail on top of it later on, maybe tessilmare.


----------



## firecat1981

Now that the trailer is all buttoned up I’m trying to get moving on fairing.

The rub rail needed some filling, especially there it joined at the bow.

20200226_110429_resized  , on Flickr

I shaped it flat-ish.

20200303_131546_resized  , on Flickr

I made a little sanding jig from a block of wood that I wrapped with 120 grit to round off the lower edge.

20200303_145249_resized  , on Flickr

20200303_145302_resized  , on Flickr

Then I started to slather on fairing compound. I’m not going for perfection here, just make it look better then raw glass.

20200226_141034_resized  , on Flickr

20200302_153953_resized  , on Flickr

20200303_144458_resized  , on Flickr

Gotta just finish it up so I can get on the water.


----------



## Smackdaddy53

She’s looking good! I found some awesome engine wire harness heat tape while rebuilding my truck engines. TESA heat tape, you might like it over that wire loom.


----------



## GoGataGo52__20

Sick dude!


----------



## Cut Runner

Charge on man, summers coming! (Although it feels like it's already here)
I got my 25' finished up finally. Ready for a bunch of trips to the islands this summer cant wait


----------



## firecat1981

I'm working on it when I can. Did a few hours of sanding earlier. Hopefully I'll do a coat of primer by next week. I'll stop at that point to finish up where all the hardware will go and any issues, but it will at least be one color.

I'm not going for perfection. It will be wavy as hell, but the tape edges won't be exposed........as much.

I'm already priming my wife for the next build. I'm thinking an all composite 17ft hybrid skiff. Kinds like this one, but way different. Think a stretched hobie power skiff, with integral float ring/stray rail, and a flat but positive sheer line. Maybe?


----------



## bryson

I must have missed a few updates -- she's looking good!


----------



## Cut Runner

18 is a magic number


----------



## anytide

top shelf as always !


----------



## firecat1981

I got some goodies in the mail from Gemlux.

First is a ball valve to adjust the intake volume from the livewell pump. The smallest you can find these days is a 500gph, which is way overkill for a 10 gallon tank. Really a 150gph would be plenty to turnover the tank. So I got one of their nice nylon valves with a 90 degree adapter. 

20200318_092702_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also decided on my cleats and rod holders. The new cutting edge design they have only drops 2.5" below the surface, so they should work out just fine. Also theses to not need drains. The rod holders are just your normal SS fair. I didn't realize you can't remove the caps, so I might just cut them off as I don't need them.

20200318_093105_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So when I said I only did some minor fairing, I really meant it. A lot of it is pretty wavy and rough still, but I'm moving on. Not being on the water is bothering me way more then a little wave in the paint ever will.

20200318_115818_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

First coat of primer. This is the Totalprotect epoxy primer. It is a barrier coat and high build. I dig it, but didn't realize how many nooks and crannies my interior had. 

20200318_172543_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Second coat on. The floor and decks will be covered with ground pumice so they don't need to be smooth. The rest I will get as close as I can without continued fairing and live with it.

20200320_171416_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So the reason I primed is not really cause it's ready for paint, but so I could see what I really had. I will now do all the rest of the holes I need (livewell pump, bilge discharge, nav lights, hinges....) before any final priming and painting. It's nice to see it all one color.


----------



## SeaDrifter

firecat1981 said:


> I got some goodies in the mail from Gemlux.
> 
> First is a ball valve to adjust the intake volume from the livewell pump. The smallest you can find these days is a 500gph, which is way overkill for a 10 gallon tank. Really a 150gph would be plenty to turnover the tank. So I got one of their nice nylon valves with a 90 degree adapter.
> 
> 20200318_092702_resized , on Flickr
> 
> I also decided on my cleats and rod holders. The new cutting edge design they have only drops 2.5" below the surface, so they should work out just fine. Also theses to not need drains. The rod holders are just your normal SS fair. I didn't realize you can't remove the caps, so I might just cut them off as I don't need them.
> 
> 20200318_093105_resized , on Flickr
> 
> So when I said I only did some minor fairing, I really meant it. A lot of it is pretty wavy and rough still, but I'm moving on. Not being on the water is bothering me way more then a little wave in the paint ever will.
> 
> 20200318_115818_resized , on Flickr
> 
> First coat of primer. This is the Totalprotect epoxy primer. It is a barrier coat and high build. I dig it, but didn't realize how many nooks and crannies my interior had.
> 
> 20200318_172543_resized , on Flickr
> 
> Second coat on. The floor and decks will be covered with ground pumice so they don't need to be smooth. The rest I will get as close as I can without continued fairing and live with it.
> 
> 20200320_171416_resized , on Flickr
> 
> So the reason I primed is not really cause it's ready for paint, but so I could see what I really had. I will now do all the rest of the holes I need (livewell pump, bilge discharge, nav lights, hinges....) before any final priming and painting. It's nice to see it all one color.


I don't want to offend you but to me it sounds like you are pulling out right before climaxing. I mean, you had fun but the reward will be much less. Why not spend an afternoon fairing before priming and painting? You are so close, don't cut a corner now.



Michael


----------



## sidelock

This is going to be a master piece !


----------



## firecat1981

Go back and read through the build. It was a 6 month job, based on my last 3 builds, that has lingered for an additional 2 years. The time with my family I can never get back and I don't plan to waste anymore of it if I can help it. Fairing it proper will takes many more days (meaning weeks to months with scheduling) and material, and won't increase my enjoyment one bit. I'm a function over form kinda guy, and never planned on this being a show stopper, but a decent functioning skiff for the family.

I appreciate the thought, but it's just a boat. The next one will be built with a totally different process and materials. I'll then probably strip this boat bare and give the hull away like I did with the last one.


----------



## firecat1981

Working on a lot of the small stuff until it is ready for paint.

Making backing plates to be bonded in under the cleats, rod holders, and nav light.

20200323_121745_resized_2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The cleats came with a handy installation diagram.

20200323_142902_resized_2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I am installing 4 cleats. 2 upfront a few feet back from the bow, and 2 in the rear.

20200324_085706_resized_2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Rod holders did not come with any installation instructions, and since I was installing on an odd angle they took some work with a dremel to get right. 

20200326_105203_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

And I did cut the caps off of them, they were just annoying and provided no benefit.

20200326_105213_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I also cut out the steering hole.

20200327_102018_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I have a lid cut out for each hatch, I need to work the shape a bit, and figure out how I want to glass them so they match the gutters and supports. The horizontal hatches won't be an issue, but the console hatch will need some extra attention.

20200327_134943_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Working more on the hatch lids. I have them all rough cut out. After the glass is on I'll trim them down more for final fitting.

20200330_110449_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here is where many guys, including me, go wrong with hatches. The lids must match the gutters/lips, not be made flat. If you glass them on a flat surface and the lip or gutter is even 1/32" off then it will never close quite right. I'm trying to avoid this by shaping the lids to the lips.
I glassed the bottoms of the lids, then let them set up for over an hour. They were tacky and soft still. I then weighed them down on the lips of the hatch so they will cure and hold the shape well.

20200330_154602_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20200330_154608_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Weights work find for horizontal lids, but for vertical ones you need to get creative. I used a ratched strap and 2 cam lock straps to apply pressure to some wood chunks. I think it will work out well.

20200330_154619_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## anytide

nice!!


----------



## Guest

Looking good!


----------



## firecat1981

Now that the lids are cutout and formed I needed to add backing plates. I could have gotten away without them, but I like the added weight and rigidity.

20200407_152121_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Since the plywood was warped I strategically drilled holes and used blocks and screws to draw them up, then weighed them down on the hatch gutters again to make sure they stayed where I need them.

20200410_094033_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The Gemlux hinges I'm using need a 3/8" gap since they are swagged down. I was going to use an equal gap all the way around, but decided to just use a 1/8" +/- I think it looks a bit neater. This is just a test fit before I did the old drill fill drill on the lids.

20200411_105625_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I think they turned out well. 

20200411_105636_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Bottoms glassed and holes drilled and filled. I added a block to the large hatch that's not shown. It's for the spring support I'll install later.

20200413_140654_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Progress. I cut out a hole for the latch and drilled some holes for pulls. I'm not sure the pulls were needed, but I had them so I figured why not. The compression latch is a gemlux and lockable. This is for the console door. I wanted to be able to lock it so when docked I can turn off the battery switch, just an extra guard against thievery.

20200428_120349_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I fitted up the hatches for a last time before priming.

20200501_104103_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I must have mixed up the starboard and port sides as the gaps are a bit off. They still work fine and most will not notice. I'm not putting latches or pulls on yet as I'm not sure if I want to secure these or not.

20200501_111443_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The front hatch got a hatch spring, and it works great.

20200501_133857_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20200501_133910_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The console door came out pretty well too.

20200501_142155_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20200501_142227_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## DuckNut

Super job Firecat!!!


----------



## Cut Runner

Dang them gutters look nice!
Why do I hear the theme song for "the jeffersons" in my head ??


----------



## firecat1981

Thanks guys, not super smooth, but should be very functional. 

I'm working on cutting holes for everything. My bilge is going to be very crowded by the end of it all. I thought I planned it out well, but I might need to massage a few things here and then.


----------



## firecat1981

So nonskid. I've been playing with various types of doing it and think I've decided what I'm going with. Previously I've used interlux grip added to the paint, and kyrlon webbing which had a slight rubberized grip to it. Both worked ok at best, but were not the best looking for a more finished skiff.

Since this is just a test I used some rustoleum I had around. Yes I know it's not as good as the quantum I'll be using, but it's good enough for this.

This time I played around with thickening paint, and doing the salt shaker method. I used 2 different grits of ground pumice, fine and medium. On the Left is the thickened paint. I used more then twice the volume of fumed silica to the volume of paint, but it still laid down a bit after being rolled on with a 3/8" roller.

20200426_165317_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

For the grit sides I simply rolled on a coat of paint, then sprinkled on the pumice until a nice even coat was down. I let it dry then top coated it with more paint.

20200428_084048_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Even after 2 coats of thickened paint the texture was still smoother then I wanted, BoatBrains warned me, lol. So I abandoned that route. The fine pumice was more then enough grit for me, but the medium wasn't bad either.

Last step was the wear test. Since the pumice has a kinda tan color I was worried as it wore down it would just look dirty. I took some 120 grit sandpaper to it and sanded it for a bit to wear down the centers. As you can see to my surprise it stayed pretty much white. Even worn down the fine grit still had plenty of grip. I think that's what I'm going with.

20200428_092816_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## SeaDrifter

I am just about ready to glass my deck and have been thinking a great deal about the nonskid so your update was definitely on point with me and I took notes. It looks awesome and I am eager to see your finished product!



Michael


----------



## firecat1981

Time for some finishing touches before the last bits of primer and paint.

I made a drill guide for the outboard. It's just a few pieces of MDF measured and drilled on my drill press. It won't last but a few drills, but it will keep the bits more or less straight and accurate. No places locat would let me borrow theirs.

20200505_143601_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Something finally went right, lol. I measured the center line out, and it lined up right in the middle of the drain plug.

20200505_145639_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20200505_150858_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Holy Swiss Cheese Batman!!!
Here are all the holes so far. I'll install the transducer later on, maybe on a puck. Still gotta do the drill-fill-drill for some of the holes.

20200507_154944_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Here's what it all does.

TRANSOM LAYOUT https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Nav Lights drilled too.

20200507_155047_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So now I need some help. I need to figure out where I'm going to mount my switch panel. Originally it was going on the console face next to the controls, and it may still, but I'm not sold. I have 3 options basically.

First. Next to the controls. The tachometer and key switch would need to be fitted to the left of switch panel.

20200508_155813_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Second option. Still next to the controls, but turned and moved up. The tach and key switch would be located below the panel.

20200508_155849_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Last option. I'm leaning this way unless someone sees an issue. The switch panel would be mounted below the controls on the face of the console. Since the switches are inset and protected a bit you shouldn't be able to bump them with you leg or anything. The tach and key switch would then be stacked next to the controls.

20200508_155937_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Thoughts? 

PS: ya'll like my controls mockup?


----------



## Tautog166

Option 3

Getting closer and closer.


----------



## anytide

nice!
do you have a screen for the live well intake?


----------



## firecat1981

anytide said:


> nice!
> do you have a screen for the live well intake?


Yes, ill be using one of those EZ pump scoops.


----------



## GaG8tor

Nice work


----------



## firecat1981

Any other opinions on the switch layout?


----------



## Copahee Hound

firecat1981 said:


> Any other opinions on the switch layout?


I like option 2, keeps them in easy line of site while running but maybe slightly more susceptible to water intrusion being that they’re more horizontal? Also the sun will damage any labels on the switches over time. 

I like option 3 for the longevity aspects mentioned above.


----------



## JC Designs

I like option 3.


----------



## DuckNut

3


----------



## Copahee Hound

FC, you talk about drill, fill, drill repeatedly. Just to clarify... You are over drilling the hole, filling with neat epoxy, and then drilling to the size of the screw? If this is correct, are you still adding a dab of 4200 for good measure when you install your hatches, accessories, etc?


----------



## firecat1981

Pretty much nailed it. Yes I'll do 5200, 4200, or silicone, depending on the area I'm bedding.

I'm only doing the drill-fill-drill on high stress areas like the hinges, or outboard mounting bolts. I over drill a bit, then fill the holes with epoxy thickened heavily with milled fibers, silica, and glass microspheres. Smooth and rough fair it, then drill my real holes.

This helps reinforce certain areas. Others like low stress plumping fixtures, or led lights ill just do a good coat of epoxy or 2 on the exposed wood. Plus sealant later on. If this was a foam boat I would need to do a lot more of this as the core isn't as strong as wood.


----------



## firecat1981

Not much done this week. Family and work got a bit in the way.
I applied fairing compound to the area under the rub rail and top of transom. After I sand it in a few days I'll apply 2-3 coats of primer, sand and paint. I also need to sand the interior, then reapply a coat or 2 of primer, resand that then pain the interior.

20200522_161515 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

I got the green light for inspections from the FWC and made contact with the officer. He is willing to come as soon as I need, but will only look at the boat when it is complete and water ready minus the motor. Time to finish it up.


----------



## Cut Runner

I see you used the same nav lights I did from oznium. I love em


----------



## K3anderson

firecat1981 said:


> So nonskid. I've been playing with various types of doing it and think I've decided what I'm going with. Previously I've used interlux grip added to the paint, and kyrlon webbing which had a slight rubberized grip to it. Both worked ok at best, but were not the best looking for a more finished skiff.
> 
> Since this is just a test I used some rustoleum I had around. Yes I know it's not as good as the quantum I'll be using, but it's good enough for this.
> 
> This time I played around with thickening paint, and doing the salt shaker method. I used 2 different grits of ground pumice, fine and medium. On the Left is the thickened paint. I used more then twice the volume of fumed silica to the volume of paint, but it still laid down a bit after being rolled on with a 3/8" roller.on Flickr



So if I understand what you decided, you took 10 oz of paint added 20 oz of silica, then rolled, then sprinkled with a salt shaker? Could you do this with interlux do you think?


----------



## firecat1981

K3anderson said:


> So if I understand what you decided, you took 10 oz of paint added 20 oz of silica, then rolled, then sprinkled with a salt shaker? Could you do this with interlux do you think?


No the silica was one test, the salt shaker method with ground pumice was another. With the shaker method you tape off the area you want to add non skid, roll on a coat and generously shake on the grit. When dry you vacuum off all the excess grit, then roll another coat or 2 on top to seal it up.
Interlux perfection would be ok, brightsides I think might be a bit soft for long term use.


----------



## firecat1981

Cut Runner said:


> I see you used the same nav lights I did from oznium. I love em


They seem like good quality units. I also have a set of their 3w floods I'm using as underwater LEDs


----------



## Moonpie

Outstanding build and thank you for taking the time and effort to document.

With regards to the nonskid, our deck was previously coated with a paint with silica mixed in. Over time, the top portion of the imbedded silica was worn down and exposed and looked perpetually dirty. I removed the entire deck coating and applied first the two part primer and then the Tuffcoat itself. It is a rubberized coating and the beads that prevent the slipping are rubber as well. After a year it looks brand new and is absolutely slip proof.

https://tuffcoat.net/

https://tuffcoatmarine.com/


----------



## firecat1981

Thanks for tuning in. I've seen the tough coat on boats, mostly aluminum jobs, and it seems like a decent product. I've already got what I need for the nonskid now and honestly I just don't want to change course again. If I need to tape and recoat every few years I'll live with that, or just build another boat, lol.

The interior and exterior are mostly prepped now for another coat or 3 of primer. Then sanding with 220 and painting. It won't be perfect, I'm not going to block it all down, just hit it with the random orbit and some hand sanding. A decent 20/20 paint job is all I need, it just needs to get on the water already.
20200604_092525 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


----------



## firecat1981

Slow progress. I taped off the bottom and finished sanding the sides.

20200609_131533 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

A few coats later

20200610_124812 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I got 2 coats on the sides transom, and cap including the rear hatches and splash well.

20200610_124836 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Par for the course, as I do more work I discover more issues. I found a bunch of pinholes in the sides. I made an epoxy slurry with microspheres to try and fill them. Hopefully it works out good enough.


----------



## firecat1981

An other day, an other disappointment.

I actually took time off of work to try and move this damn boat along. I sanded down the primer, which let me know my fairing job was worse then I thought. I ended up burning through some spots. No big deal I thought, but more on that later.

I blew out the garage live 5 times a day for the past few. No matter how much I blew out there was always more. I decided to try and set up a ghetto negative pressure ventilation system. Using 2 box fans and a small air filter. It worked very well for the fumes as there were barely any and the bugs, but the dust was still around. 

20200612_083501 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I'm using this EMC Quantum paint. I've read all these reviews and watched videos..... It seemed like a great product for what I am doing. They say it is for DIY guys, but I really don't believe that. I mixed it as directed, and applied as suggested. This stuff is so thin that it's near impossible for me to avoid drips and sags, and they don't flow out as expected. It's also so thin that it barely covers anything. 
I originally saw this stuff on ShipshapeTV. They did a color change with it, no primer or anything, just scuff and apply a few coats with a roller, done, looks perfect. So I figured if they can do a color change then a little burn through on the primer should be no issue. Wrong again.
This is after the second coat.

20200612_155603 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Now the majority of the dark spots you see were not burned completely through they were still milky with a thin coat of primer over them. Even the areas that had perfect primer on them are still very uneven as far as the color goes. They suggest 2-3 coats, but I'm think I'll need 4 at a minimum. The interlux I used before would cover these areas on almost the first coat and had a smoother appearance IMO. I also went out and bought the more expensive wooster foam rollers thinking they would hold up. Well they started falling apart half way through the hull side leading to a mess I can't fix unless I want to wet sand later. problem is this stuff is so thin I'm not sure I trust it will hold up to a good cut and buff. I don't know what to do now, I can't really go back, but requiring so many coats of paint I might need to buy more. I don't want to spend another $200+ on this stuff. Why didn't I just use rustoleum again, lol!

This all seems par for the course on this build. It seems every time I deviate from my norm and try to upgrade to more expensive products I greatly regret it.


----------



## BassFlats

The good times on the boat will soon erase the bad memories of the build.


----------



## firecat1981

Well, it kind of went from bad to worse. I got some 1/4" nap rollers and reduced the reducer to .5 parts instead of 1. The results were the work time was reduced. It did go on thicker, but it did not flow out well at all, and I ended up with a lot of air bubbles towards the end. The good news is the air bubbles were all on the deck edge I was painting so it will be easier to sand then the hull sides. Bad news is I really need to sand everything back down smooth and apply a few more coats. 

I'm to far in to stop, but don't have enough to finish out the interior. Meaning I'll have to waste some more money. This is now going to be a $1000+ paint job I'm ultimately not happy with. I could have prepped it and had it shot with auto paint for less. Lesson learned.


----------



## firecat1981

Live and learn. I think I have several things working against me.

First, unfamiliarity with the product. On my past few projects I've used products from interlux, rustoleum, petit, and totalboat. All of these were very forgiving and user friendly. I don't think the quantum is really a DIY kinda paint, it has a sharp learning curve and its to thin to be tipped so any mistakes you do your stuck with after 45 seconds. I think it would do well if you could spray it.

Next, I'm working against the Florida summer. It says this paint can be used in anything under 95 degrees, and I have the high temp reducer too. I think anything over 85 with moderate humidity is a killer for most paints.

Finally, this ties into the other 2, reducer flash. The further I went the worse it got. I think the reducer evaporated quickly in the heat, and reducing it on the 3rd coat made it worse. 

Going forward I'll mix smaller amounts, keeping it covered in the mixing cup, and add small amounts to the pan as I go. Maybe add some reducer towards the end. I'm going to swing by Sherwin Williams and see about getting some good mohair rollers too. 
As for now I tried to sand a spot and its still to soft, I'll let it sit till Monday and start sanding with 220, then 320. Not looking forward to it, but it's my only path forward right?


----------



## Moonpie

I give you an A+ for perseverance on this project.

Through your thorough documentation of this build you are helping countless others in their own decision making regarding products. 

Hopefully you’ll be on the water soon and the trials and tribulations of the build will be in you're rear view mirror.


----------



## firecat1981

Moonpie said:


> I give you an A+ for perseverance on this project.
> 
> Through your thorough documentation of this build you are helping countless others in their own decision making regarding products.
> 
> Hopefully you’ll be on the water soon and the trials and tribulations of the build will be in you're rear view mirror.


Thanks. I should rename it to Murphys Law, lol. Everything that could go wrong pretty much did, lol. 
I believe in documenting victories and goof ups. To many build threads only show the good parts, not the reality.


----------



## Tautog166

firecat1981 said:


> Thanks. I should rename it to Murphys Law, lol. Everything that could go wrong pretty much did, lol.
> I believe in documenting victories and goof ups. To many build threads only show the good parts, not the reality.


You’re doing great, just think how easy the next one will be.


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## firecat1981

Tautog166 said:


> You’re doing great, just think how easy the next one will be.


This is the 4th boat I built. The first one was a learning experience but worked out well, took near 6 months. The second I just gave away, it was called the plytanic if you want to look up that build, took about 5.5 months. Third was a hybrid kayak/swamp canoe, but decided i don't like to paddle, took 2 months.

So I figured instead of designing my own boat again, I would buy plans to speed it up. I figured on a 6 month build, I'm now more then 2.5 years in.


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## firecat1981

So I decided how to move forward. I think I'll have just enough paint to do the hull sides cap, and boarder of the interior. Maybe. For the nonskid I am going back to interlux perfection. Reason is for the salt shaker method I'm using I don't think the quantum, being so thin, will have enough body to adhere the pumice. Or recoat it. 

So now since I'm not doing ice blue non skid, what should I use? I think cream is to dark, and I don't want snow white as it's to bright. Mediterranean white? Oyster white? Matterhorn white? off white? 

OIP https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## LowHydrogen

firecat1981 said:


> So I decided how to move forward. I think I'll have just enough paint to do the hull sides cap, and boarder of the interior. Maybe. For the nonskid I am going back to interlux perfection. Reason is for the salt shaker method I'm using I don't think the quantum, being so thin, will have enough body to adhere the pumice. Or recoat it.
> 
> So now since I'm not doing ice blue non skid, what should I use? I think cream is to dark, and I don't want snow white as it's to bright. Mediterranean white? Oyster white? Matterhorn white? off white?
> 
> OIP , on Flickr


I have Matterhorn white on my Mako topsides, it's WHITE bro like burnt retinas, I jokingly call it Cataract White. Looks sharp but I went with a cream kiwigrip nonskid instead of textured Matterhorn White to tone it down. I made that call in my yard with some ambient color around, in full sun on the water I think it would be really really intense.


----------



## Zika

Agree with LowHydrogen regarding color charts. I went with Awlgrip color Chevy White on my BT. It is an off-white as well. Looks great clean but easily shows dirt, especially paw prints. Very bright in the sun, too. I would go darker next time. If there is a next time. 

Keep plugging away. When it's all done and you're on it catching fish, you'll be able to smile.


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## firecat1981

Thanks guys, I've been trying to look up examples of the colors, but the Google is failing me a bit. I may still go with cream if need be, if the wife gets on board.


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## DuckNut

Go over to Sweets paint and talk to them about BLP Mobile marine paint. It is industrial grade paint and less than half the price of Interlux.

They built their reputation on painting offshore oil rigs and steel fishing boats but also have a line for fiberglass boats.


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## Vertigo

Don't just stick to the color chart (which bears little resemblance to colors in real life) Interlux paint colors can be mixed. Get a quart if a close color and a quart of something darker (or lighter) mix and test until you get exactly what you want. Keep track of the ratios.


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## firecat1981

Nope! 

While I appreciate it guys, I'm not jumping to any new to me products, or doing anymore custom mixes. I can play more later, but this project needs to be simply done.


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## firecat1981

Well I don't know what else to say at this point besides screw this boat! So I had a plan, I was even upbeat about it talking to my friends today. No big deal I told them, live and lean, I'll have it redone by next week. I keep having challenges, but have kept moving forward. I've spent more then 35 hours this week and wasted a vacation day working on the paint. We will cirle around to this....

I started sanding it back down. Just enough to get rid of the air bubbles and orange peel. This paint is not nearly as tough as the interlux perfection. It burned through in many areas with just 320 grit and no real pressue. No big deal I though, I'll keep going cause I figured on needing at least 3 more coats of this paint.

20200616_165734_resized , on Flickr

So I'm sanding along the sides and thought I might as well pull the tape since I'll want fresh tape after sanding on it. Freaking disaster! I bought what I thought was the best masking tape I could find. 3M automotive. The green kind for sharp lines that is solvent resistant. I've used it before with good results. Not this time, it bled pretty bad the whole way around the hull. I tried to use some solvent and acetone, but it is eating away the grafite epoxy more then the paint.

20200616_174959_resized , on Flickr

Now for the worst issue. The damn paint didn't adhere to itself!!! I was well within the recoat window. I was sanding a few spots and hit it with the airgun to get the dust off. The paint started chipping away. Hoping it was just one spot I tried a few others on the deck and they all were the same. The first 2 coats were intact and hard under the 3rd, it was just floating on top. So now ALL the paint must come off down to the glass pretty much and I'll have to reprime and start over from scratch! Meaning I need to buy new paint and primer again!

20200616_185217_resized , on Flickr

I really hate the EMC paint! Another waste of $600! This will be by far the most expensive FS17 ever built.

I really don't know how to move forward, you can only kick a dog so many times. My wife is trying to talk me off the cliff, but even she thinks it's questionable to spent money on a motor for it now.


----------



## Copahee Hound

I feel for you! But after 2.5 years of your life that you can't get back, you know what you have to do... Sand it down and finish the damn boat!!! 

I'm only on my first project and I can't tell you how many times my wife told me to just scrap it and get the skiff I want. I've cut the foam wrong, incorrectly mixed batches of epoxy, sanded through the hull side, and spent way more money and time than it's worth. However, I WILL ride on my boat again! I'm glad guys like you include the fails with the wins. Thanks to you, I do know what paint I will NOT be using.


----------



## Cut Runner

Dang it man, I hate to hear your having these issues. I sure know I have had my fair share. My big boat is finally on the water after 4 years of non stop work, man does it feel good to be done! It's worth it in the end, especially since I think you really went a step beyond on this boat.
I know you want it done, believe me. But take a week off from it and hit it again when you have fresh energy. Maybe even get a pressure washer or air to blow the paint off (easier than sanding) 
Maybe you have a friend that lives out of town a bit with a big air compressor?
I know you've heard this enough times to be blue in the face but I would spray it with awlcraft. Trust me bud, most of the guys in boatyards spraying that stuff aren't "pros" and I know your capable of it. Do it once and be done with it, you'll never look back after you do I promise you


----------



## devrep

I have to ask. why not spray the boat? it isn't rocket science. it's not that hard.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm just not well set up to spray right now. I did my jeep years back with some cheap paint and equipment and it was ok at best. On the next one I will probably spray, but with a good amount of testing and practice.

I need this boat done guys. The time dedicated and lack of access to water has really been detrimental to my family, and I feel like I'm failing my kids now. The constant failures and extended time delay has cause quite a few personal issues that I won't go into.

Talking it over with my wife today I think I'm going forward with either interlux brightsides or totalboat wet edge. They are very similar paints, and I've used brightsides a few times before. My last boat was 9 years old and still looked decent. 

I'm making this statement now. This is not a forever boat! After all the issues and frustration I'm seeing this as a 4-5 year boat max and then I need to move on. The next hull will be built completely different. The hatches and console will be built before I ever start cutting frames out. It will be a composite build, without the epoxy graphite bottom (maybe), and fully painted before it gets flipped.


----------



## K3anderson

Here’s perfection in Matterhorn I did a couple weeks ago for an idea


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## firecat1981

Thank you for posting it. That does look really bright. I think I'm going with a cream or beige for the non skid.


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## K3anderson

I also have a brand new quart of that lauderdale blue you can have if you want to tint one of the perfection whites. It's unopened and I'm in Tampa area. It has no hardener though, but, you wont need it if you are using to tint. Save you from needing to buy a whole quart for it. PM me.


----------



## firecat1981

I really appreciate it, but I already have tint and even worked out my ratios.


----------



## K3anderson

firecat1981 said:


> I really appreciate it, but I already have tint and even worked out my ratios.


You're not alone. So I had just enough to finish my coats. I do the sand and within the overcoat window. I open my Perfection, stir it and measure. I open the brand new hardener to measure, solid as a rock. Screwdriver wouldn't even penetrate it. Scrambled to West Marine to see if they had some and that was the only color they had, but, I only needed the hardener. Bent over a took it in the seat from them (double to price of anywhere) so I could get it done. Now I have a brand new quart of it.  Tomorrow's a new day though.


----------



## Cut Runner

I did oyster white on my boat, and it's also the standard white on pathfinders.
When I popped the can open I said no way, this looks like eggshell cream or something. But when I rolled out a test spot on the boat it "lightened" up perfectly. Not a lot of glare like other whites and still actually looks white in the sun and not like cream


----------



## firecat1981

Cut Runner said:


> I did oyster white on my boat, and it's also the standard white on pathfinders.
> When I popped the can open I said no way, this looks like eggshell cream or something. But when I rolled out a test spot on the boat it "lightened" up perfectly. Not a lot of glare like other whites and still actually looks white in the sun and not like cream


I'm about to order, got a pic?


----------



## Cut Runner




----------



## firecat1981

That looks good with the seafoam, but I think i want a bit more cream with the ice blue.


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## devrep

Cut Runner said:


> View attachment 141172


Cut Runner, what boat is that?


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## K3anderson

Cut Runner said:


> View attachment 141172


Any idea what measurement you used from the edge to the nonskid? It looks like an inch?


----------



## Cut Runner

Its guide green "technically".
It's my 1966 233 formula I restored


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## firecat1981

Whatever it is, it looks great!

Ok I think I'm leaning toward Hatteras off-white. Its a bit creamier then the oyster, but not as dark as the beige.

I got another delivery today it's the MATE/tessilmare rub rail kit. I have near everything besides the motor now.


----------



## CedarCreek

firecat1981 said:


> Whatever it is, it looks great!
> 
> Ok I think I'm leaning toward Hatteras off-white. Its a bit creamier then the oyster, but not as dark as the beige.
> 
> I got another delivery today it's the MATE/tessilmare rub rail kit. I have near everything besides the motor now.


Here's another pic of oyster white in the sun. You can compare to the white yeti. Hull is marlin blue.


----------



## Cut Runner

^ that's a good comparison. You need a pure white up against it to see how much cream is in oyster white


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## firecat1981

Thats a good looking boat too, and I do like the color. If I were doing the whole cap, or had a darker base color I think it would be good. With the ice blue though I wanted it just a bit darker cause its just the non skid.

So I also think I have a solution for the bleed through on the masking tape. I'll take the hatteras off-white and make a pin stripe between the ice blue sides and navy graphite bottom. Its either that, or redo the graphite.


----------



## BadKnotGuy

Hi Firecat, thanks for posting on your build.A quick thought on the deck paint - I used Interlux Interdeck in Sand Beige on a GF16 I built. It rolled on really nicely with only two coats needed and provides ample grip. Very easy to apply and maintain. If you don't like a spot after awhile it's easy to sand down and touch up. One part and really simple to use.


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## firecat1981

BadKnotGuy said:


> Hi Firecat, thanks for posting on your build.A quick thought on the deck paint - I used Interlux Interdeck in Sand Beige on a GF16 I built. It rolled on really nicely with only two coats needed and provides ample grip. Very easy to apply and maintain. If you don't like a spot after awhile it's easy to sand down and touch up. One part and really simple to use.


Thanks for the suggestion. The interdeck is basically the brightsides with a shark grip type additive already mixed in, if I recall correctly. I'm going with the total boat wet edge now, which is very similar to brightside. I'll use the salt shaker method with fine pumice for grip.


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## BadKnotGuy

Good deal. Yep that's basically what it is. I used the salt shaker method for my casting decks that I did with varnish (bright sides). It worked well. It takes less than one would think. I found success by starting light and then shaking more on till it reached the volume/roughness I was looking for. In areas where I put a little too much on it made the varnish look a little cloudy but nothing I couldn't live with. At that point I too was more into the "just get the darn thing on the water" mindset.


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## firecat1981

I like that mindset.


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## Moonpie

Ahoy Firecat -

If you get to the point where you just can’t take it anymore with your build just let me know.

I purchased this puppy a while back and have been dying to try it out. Just give me your Lat/Long and I’ll enter the launch codes.


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## firecat1981

Hey I tried to buy some Russian surplus too. But the boat I wanted had some kind of "reactor" and I needed a special license or some crap. Damn red tape.


----------



## firecat1981

So..... I hate this boat, lol. The more I sand the worse its looking. Some of the quantum is coming off in big chunks, some seems more soft like house paint, and some of it is hard. So I'm having to sand deeper and more aggressively to get through it all and down to primer or glass in most spots. This is ruining most of the final smoothing I did. So I get to sand and repaint a boat for the third time before it hits the water. It's a bit frustrating.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Wow... ...that sucks the greasiest of giant green donkey d&$!s; I’d really struggle with that type of setback so close to the end. Walk away from your friends and family and beat a lawn chair to death with bat while cussing until you are exhausted. It helps.

...then come back and refair, prep and paint again.

Nate


----------



## JC Designs

This is just crazy brother! What do you think went wrong?


----------



## BassFlats

Splatter paint it and fish it .


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## JC Designs

BassFlats said:


> Splatter paint it and fish it .


I’d raptor line that F’er! Will be both mine soon!


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## firecat1981

I took a week or so off already, went and played on the beach. Now I'm back and the new paint, Brightsides, should be here soon. 
On a side frustration. I ordered totalboat wet edge, and after never getting a tracking number I contacted Jamestown. The thinner was on backorder. Long story short I switched to the interlux brightsides.

As far as what went wrong, who knows. I mixed it correctly, this I know. I allowed induction time. I was well within the recoat window and temp range. Even if the thinner all evaporated it should still stick, just not smooth out. Maybe its a humidity issue, but the instructions never stated a range and being solvent heavy you'd think it wouldn't effect adhesion. All I can do is chock it up to live and learn. 

I'm so over it that I'm just gonna do what I can as quickly as I can to smooth it out with the orbital, then paint and move on with my life.


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## Moonpie

Sorry to hear of your ongoing issues with this build. You are obviously a considerably more patient individual than myself. I would have worked it over with the front end loader on my Kubota long ago.

That being said, you deserve much credit for your steadfast determination and honest transparency. Hopefully you’ll be rewarded with many fine memories once your on the water.


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## firecat1981

My wife deserves the credit for pushing me. Truth be told I think she feels guilty. I was going to scrap the project 2+ years ago, but she got mad and kept on me to keep going because of the money I spent to that point. Neither of us knew then that it would go on for years further and cost 3 times more. Every time I come in cussing from the garage she does something nice. I typically get more annoyed at that point cause I know why she's being nice, lol


----------



## Shallows

I had considered the EMC Quantum too as Boatworks Today seemed to really like it (although he also loves Soft-Sand non-skid - which absolutely ruined my first paint job - so I'm in the same camp - had to paint Perfection twice...).


----------



## Shallows

Firecat, after reading the build, I found it interesting how you are heating up the wood before covering in epoxy - and how you say pretty much any wood can be made to work like this; are there any readily available small trim type woods (like from Lowes/Home Depot) which you have found work well? Thinking of using this method for some non-structural trim type pieces that would be fully covered in epoxy.


----------



## firecat1981

Shallows said:


> I had considered the EMC Quantum too as Boatworks Today seemed to really like it (although he also loves Soft-Sand non-skid - which absolutely ruined my first paint job - so I'm in the same camp - had to paint Perfection twice...).


He just did a quick test panel, and still didn't love it's finish. In other vids he compared it to alexseal and liked the latter more. I'd love to see his opinion after having to roll 5 coats on a boat. As far as soft sand goes, no thanks, I felt a sample at a show and I don’t think it will hold up as long as the other products out there under a catalyzed paint.


----------



## firecat1981

Shallows said:


> Firecat, after reading the build, I found it interesting how you are heating up the wood before covering in epoxy - and how you say pretty much any wood can be made to work like this; are there any readily available small trim type woods (like from Lowes/Home Depot) which you have found work well? Thinking of using this method for some non-structural trim type pieces that would be fully covered in epoxy.


I think most woods would work out ok. Hard woods do not absorb epoxy well, but i didn't play with them under heat. I was mostly using pine, but cedar will work out well to I think. As long as its dry it should absorb all east twice the resin when heated to 30 degrees or so above ambient temps.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> I think most woods would work out ok. Hard woods do not absorb epoxy well, but i didn't play with them under heat. I was mostly using pine, but cedar will work out well to I think. As long as its dry it should absorb all east twice the resin when heated to 30 degrees or so above ambient temps.


Thanks, definitely going to try this heat method; have you ever tried epoxy on Maple?


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> He just did a quick test panel, and still didn't love it's finish. In other vids he compared it to alexseal and liked the latter more. I'd love to see his opinion after having to roll 5 coats on a boat. As far as soft sand goes, no thanks, I felt a sample at a show and I don’t think it will hold up as long as the other products out there under a catalyzed paint.


Yes, the Soft Sand seemed good in theory, but the particles are just huge and its really not that soft at all once painted on.


----------



## firecat1981

The medium grain pumice is pretty course too, so I'm going with fine. I haven't tried to use epoxy on maple, but if it can be used on oak, walnut and teak I think it work work out. Grab a board and make samples.


----------



## firecat1981

I've put in some hours this week sanding, priming, sanding, and priming, and sanding..... definition of insanity! I don't think it's getting much better. The only thing I plan to use the epoxy primer on now are the hatch lids. 

So while planning to paint this week I realized that rolling and tipping, even at 5am and 76 degrees, will be hard by myself to do the whole outside. So I'm gonna break it up a bit. If everything works out I'll put the first coat on the cap in the morning. Once it sets I'll continue sanding the sides, they will be painted in a few days. 
That's the plan, I'm sure it will go sideways. Next project I will just spray it all at once.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> I've put in some hours this week sanding, priming, sanding, and priming, and sanding..... definition of insanity! I don't think it's getting much better.


Yeah, doesn't sound fun!



firecat1981 said:


> So while planning to paint this week I realized that rolling and tipping, even at 5am and 76 degrees, will be hard by myself to do the whole outside.


You may want to experiment with rolling in the hotter temps if it can make your life easier; oddly enough I feel like my Interlux Perfection laid down best in 90-degree temp with direct sunlight (very little reducer used - just a tiny splash).


----------



## firecat1981

It will lay down better, but it will tack over before you can blend your edges well. Dry to touch is only like an hour at 90 degrees, meaning work time might be 10-15 minutes. Last few times I used this paint it went better at night.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> It will lay down better, but it will tack over before you can blend your edges well. Dry to touch is only like an hour at 90 degrees, meaning work time might be 10-15 minutes. Last few times I used this paint it went better at night.


I would put the "ideal" working time at about 30-seconds at 90-degrees, beyond that and the finish wouldn't blend as seamlessly when rolling (no tipping). 

If you have to tip then that would be kind of a pain, guess you would want cooler night temperatures like you are saying so you could go back minutes later.


----------



## firecat1981

The more work time the better. Especially for blending corners and edges. Spraying doesn't matter, but with roll and tip its the way to go.


----------



## firecat1981

So maybe to much work time, lol. Actually work time was what I thought, dry to touch though hasn't happened yet. I woke up at 5am and went to work, done with the cap by 7am. Even though it was 74 outside, my garage retains heat so it was near 80. At 75 degrees it should dry to the touch in 2 hours. Here we are 3 hours later and its still wet. And its getting a ton of dust, and a few bugs. I was hoping it would be dry to the touch by now so I could start working on the sides, but with it wet I need to stay away.

It will be good enough, but truth be told I'm kind of regretting my purchase, again. Seeing how much dust it's getting, because it's to big to set up a makeshift paintbrush that works right, I wish I went with rustoleum. No its not a better paint, but it is polishable so I'd be able to deal more with dust. Oh well, moving on.


----------



## DuckNut

When was the last time you washed it with soap and water?


----------



## firecat1981

Last night. Got a bath. Then a wipe down. It dried fine, just took a few hours longer.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> So maybe to much work time, lol. Actually work time was what I thought, dry to touch though hasn't happened yet. I woke up at 5am and went to work, done with the cap by 7am. Even though it was 74 outside, my garage retains heat so it was near 80. At 75 degrees it should dry to the touch in 2 hours. Here we are 3 hours later and its still wet. And its getting a ton of dust, and a few bugs. I was hoping it would be dry to the touch by now so I could start working on the sides, but with it wet I need to stay away.
> 
> It will be good enough, but truth be told I'm kind of regretting my purchase, again. Seeing how much dust it's getting, because it's to big to set up a makeshift paintbrush that works right, I wish I went with rustoleum. No its not a better paint, but it is polishable so I'd be able to deal more with dust. Oh well, moving on.


That sucks that your having ongoing paint issues. Spoke to Interlux by phone and they told me to paint between 10am-3pm to avoid dew and these other issues you are running into - and by sticking within those hours you would only apply 1-coat per day.

When I used to paint cars I would sometimes spray the cement down around the car with a hose before shooting the paint, cut down dust & debris.


----------



## firecat1981

I used a pump sprayer to wet the floor a bit, by 10am it's 88-90 in the garage, and by 3 it's 96. Obviously using big fans is not an option when painting, do its either early morning or nothing. I only plan on a coat every 2 days or so, but breaking it up like this will take a while. My original timeliness had me painting in the early spring, 2.5 years ago.


----------



## firecat1981

Well Shallows, your theory turned out not so well. I tried painting a little later today. I started around 8am, and ended around 11am, but it did not go any better. It actually tacked over faster and made painting much harder no matter how much brushing thinner I used. It's just way to hot to be doing this now. The days are to hot and the nights and early mornings are to humid. 

I have 2 options. #1 the smart thing to do is shelve it for a few months until cooler weather comes around. #2 just slap some paint on it to get it done so I can fish already. Obviously I'm not going with option #1.

Outside of not applying well I ran into another issue. The paint is very streaky like it is rejecting the pigment. The tint I pigment I used is the same that I have used before on resins, and other paints (rustoleum, perfection, and a trial with an old can of brightsides). Never had any issues until now.










Those white streaks in the middle are not glare. So FML, lol.

It sucks, but I gotta move on. I have one more play, and that is the Rustoleum marine. I think I might just go buy a cheap spray gun, and give it a go. It can't be any worse right? I don't think I'll be able to roll and tip in this weather.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> I have 2 options. #1 the smart thing to do is shelve it for a few months until cooler weather comes around. #2 just slap some paint on it to get it done so I can fish already. Obviously I'm not going with option #1.


Option #3


----------



## firecat1981

Trust me I'm pretty close to doing that and joining a boat club. My buddy just did a split plan with CareFree, worked out to $1750 down and $150 a month for the no black out plan for him. Boats up to 25ft I think. He's having a blast and only has to cover fuel, I may have screwed up.

But I gotta finish this damn boat. If nothing else it's just practice for the next one in a few years, but I have much different plans for that.


----------



## DuckNut

What paint was this and what pigment did you use?


----------



## firecat1981

Brightsides, and the same FGCI pigment I've been using for years. This cursed boat just won't go down without a fight.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> Trust me I'm pretty close to doing that and joining a boat club. My buddy just did a split plan with CareFree, worked out to $1750 down and $150 a month for the no black out plan for him. Boats up to 25ft I think. He's having a blast and only has to cover fuel, I may have screwed up.
> 
> But I gotta finish this damn boat. If nothing else it's just practice for the next one in a few years, but I have much different plans for that.


You must be spending a small fortune on paint and resin, yeah why not join a boat club? That sounds really reasonable for sure.

Next build should go real smooth if you can just figure out a paint "system" that works for you and stick with it, but finding that winning combination always takes time. 

The Brightside finish looks great from that picture - can you just paint without adding the pigment, or are too many other areas painted with pigment already?


----------



## DuckNut

firecat1981 said:


> Brightsides, and the same FGCI pigment I've been using for years. This cursed boat just won't go down without a fight.


Why did you decide to use pigments and not buy a premixed color?

The pigments FGCI sells are made from polyester resins. Typically polyester and polyurethane typically don't play well together.

All polyester pigments can be used with the ester resins. Some polyester pigments can be used with polyester and epoxy resins. Epoxy pigments can be used with epoxy resins but epoxy pigment can not be used with ester resins. I have not heard of any polyester pigments which are compatible with polyurethane paint other than polyurethane pigments. 

I certainly could be wrong though.


----------



## firecat1981

The pigment was added to the gallon, so it means replacing everything again. I used it to tint brightsides before and didn't have any issues. It mixed very well into the rustoleum I used for the compartments and bilge. I did it this way because I wanted ice blue. For some reason most companies don't make the most popular colors. 
If I go with rustoleum then I can have the store tint it and be done.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> The pigment was added to the gallon, so it means replacing everything again. I used it to tint brightsides before and didn't have any issues. It mixed very well into the rustoleum I used for the compartments and bilge. I did it this way because I wanted ice blue. For some reason most companies don't make the most popular colors.
> If I go with rustoleum then I can have the store tint it and be done.


Yeah, I found Interlux's color selection somewhat limited too.

I looked at a Brightside instructions PDF and there doesn't seem to be any option to spray it like you were talking about, appears to be roll only right? Can you spray the rust-oleum?


----------



## firecat1981

Interlux sells a specific spray reducer and their are instructions on the can. I've sprayed rustoleum on small projects in the past with decent results.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> Interlux sells a specific spray reducer and their are instructions on the can. I've sprayed rustoleum on small projects in the past with decent results.


Yes, you're right, I just saw the correct Brightside "Technical Data" sheet which does actually give spraying instructions.

Whats your next move on the paint - Brightside or Rust-Oleum?


----------



## firecat1981

I think Rustoleum if I can find it locally. Part of my issue is I also went through more brushing reducer then I thought, so I'd need to get more too. If I can find Rustoleum marine locally I'll just go with it. I can thin it with mineral spirits, add hardener if need be, and I've used it before. 
It lasted 9 years on my last skiff with minimal wear through in a few areas, like where the cooler slides.


----------



## noeettica

Rural King has it . add catalyst ...


----------



## firecat1981

I got the catalyst from tractor supply, but there's no rural king near me. I picked up some rustoleum to mix and spray on the hatch lids to try out. 
There's more to the paint info/story that I'll post up later on.


----------



## firecat1981

So it’s been a bit since I posted and I’ve been running down some ideas and issues. The paint has been a pain in my butt obviously, but I’m looking at this as an opportunity so try some stuff out. I’m setting up as best I can to spray. Yes, there will be some dust in it and no, it won’t look professional. That’s ok, I don’t really care anymore. So last we spoke I messed up by adding the wrong pigment to my paint. At least that’s what I’m going with although it worked previously. So I’m shelving that and moving on.


So I thought if I’m spraying then maybe I will try to get the EMC quantum to work. I tried calling their tech line, but they don’t have one, emails only. After days of waiting for answers I called FGCI where I bought it to ask some questions. They told me they stopped selling it shortly after I bought mine. After a bunch of customer complaints and in house trials they pulled it off the shelf.

Tech support from EMC finally got back to me after a week. I asked about the adhesion issue. The tech insisted I missed the recoat window which is up to 12 hours, and I think I painted about 7. She gave me some other BS about heat, but I reminded her their speced temp range is up to 95 degrees. Then she said it must be humidity, but I reminded her they do not spec a humidity range. Anyway, I wanted to know if I could adjust the ratio to spray instead of rolling, but the tech said I would need to buy a different activator. At this point I’m really just giving up on it, I might use it on something non essential later on.

Crazy thing to me is this paint is completely bonded to the plastic tray liner I used, I can fold it and it won’t even crack, but it wouldn’t bond to itself for some reason?


20200701_115633_resized  , on Flickr


So moving on. I used the last of the total protect primer on the hatches. These did not need to be perfect as the bottoms I don’t care about, and the tops will mostly be covered with nonskid. With the exception of the console hatch.


20200717_065233_resized  , on Flickr


I decided to just go with Rustoleum paint with enamel hardener added. I did this on my last boat and it held up better than expected for 9 years. Also no more pigments. I bought a can of blue and used just 15cc’s to tint white to a dark ice blue. I’m doing the hatches first as a test and to figure out the spray gun. The first coat was orange peel city, lol, but not horrible.


20200725_123229_resized by kevin lefkowitz, on Flickr


The second coat went on much better and smoothed things out. Not to bad I think.


20200727_132903_resized  , on Flickr


This is the gun rig I made to fill and hang it. They didn’t have one at the store so I made a temp rig out of old wire hangers. It works for now. I had to get creative with the adapters I had to get everything to work and be maneuverable. I’ll swap them out once I get to the store again.


20200728_105045_resized  , on Flickr


So this brings me to my latest issue. Not a huge one and it will work out. I went to set up the gun and all of a sudden I couldn’t get more then 20psi at the gun. After an hour plus of trouble shooting I found the issue. I installed a dryer/filter a few days ago, and it failed already. I wanted to push on so I removed it as I had a ball filter on also.


20200728_144708_resized  , on Flickr


So even with the ball filter on, apparently the Florida humidity got to me today. I rained yesterday, and we didn’t have a ton of sun today. Well live and learn, I need a better drier/water separator. So the more I sprayed the worse it got. Not a huge deal, but the one I needed to come out the best happened to be the last one I shot, lol. I will sand and reshoot with better equipment.


20200728_143705_resized  , on Flickr

So far I’m happier with the rustoleum, we will see it that continues.


----------



## Shallows

Firecat, you may find this interesting; I have Perfection paint and PrimeKote primer which were last opened/used about 3-months ago and stored in my garage since then (80-90 degrees); I just checked and both cans of hardener are still completely liquid, almost to water consistency. Was expecting them to be rock solid based on your experiences. I did wrap both cans in ziplock bags and tape up airtight after use.

Maybe they will eventually harden up, but I just found that really interesting - wondering if people who have all these issues just have air leakage somewhere? I do pound the lids down pretty good with a hammer, then tape up like mentioned etc.


----------



## Shallows

firecat1981 said:


> So this brings me to my latest issue. Not a huge one and it will work out. I went to set up the gun and all of a sudden I couldn’t get more then 20psi at the gun. After an hour plus of trouble shooting I found the issue. I installed a dryer/filter a few days ago, and it failed already. I wanted to push on so I removed it as I had a ball filter on also.


Is that filter re-usable though? I've always preferred the disposable ones for these reasons; you can also pull the plug on your air compressor to drain any internal water out underneath it before filling with air if you are worried about water.



firecat1981 said:


> So even with the ball filter on, apparently the Florida humidity got to me today. I rained yesterday, and we didn’t have a ton of sun today. Well live and learn, I need a better drier/water separator. So the more I sprayed the worse it got. Not a huge deal, but the one I needed to come out the best happened to be the last one I shot, lol. I will sand and reshoot with better equipment.


I have never experienced orange peel due to water, its really only a product of air pressure - and distance (which equates to air pressure). I shoot with the nozzle around 6-7" from surface and go fast (rather than shooting farther away and going slow); that was really the key for me personally.

Panels look great from what we can see in the pics, always helps to have a paint system you trust and have experience with like that.


----------



## firecat1981

The desiccant filter is disposable, you get rid of it after the beads change color, but it developed a clog before I got to that point. On top of that I had a disposable ball filter. The disposable filter was not enough to filter out the amount of moisture. 
I drained the tank of all the water before starting, but it builds fast as it cycles. I need to get a good water trap, maybe even 2, and a filter. Painting in the spring is no issue, but summer sucks.
I'm not really having orange peel issues. Look at the last pic closer. You'll see tons of pockmarks, or tiny fish eyes. Thats the moisture. No biggie, I'll reshoot it and it will be fine.

As far as Perfection goes, I don't know why yours didn't gel. My cans were sealed up tight. I do know some guys put plastic inside to take up vapor space, or even sprayed nitrogen in the can and slapped the lid on. Either way its not worth it to me. If I go back to a 2 part product it will most likely be alexseal.


----------



## firecat1981

I went at it again today, with mixed results, but not to bad. I bought another water separator for my compressor. So I had a full size seperator, backed up by a second mini separator. Then a short 3ft hose that had an inline desiccant filter and a ball filter before the second regulator and gun. Crap that's a lot of stuff huh, lol. I also attached the new remote drain valve kit.

Well the desiccant filter failed again. I couldn't get more then 25psi out of it so I had to quickly disconnect it and start spraying. I had just one hiccup. A water spot in the last hatch, but it's were the nonskid is going. I ordered a new mounted desiccant filter with the reusable beads as it was recommended. This should take care of the rest of the water issues. 

Outside of that I think I'm going to switch back to mineral spirits for thinning. I know guys like acetone for spraying rustoleum because it dries faster, but at 90 degrees it's not an issue, and I think it will benefit from additional flow out. Assuming I finish the last coat on the hatches this weekend, I will sand and prep next week to do the bulk of the remaining painting.


----------



## DuckNut

Why all the moisture? Condensation happens between hot and cold and it is certainly not cold.

Are you sure you got all the moisture out? Something not right with the amount of water your getting.


----------



## firecat1981

Extremely hot and humid garage. When you take 90+% humidity and compress it you turn vapor in to water. I never have issues except in the summer.


----------



## Gatorgrizz27

For painting in FL, I’ve had good luck with the disposable filters that mount to the gun, in addition to a normal water separator.


----------



## firecat1981

I have 2 water separators and a disposable filter, still getting a few drops through. The dessicant filter is the catch all and will fix her right up.


----------



## makin moves

Finally get all the moisture under control then a big drop of sweat rolls right off your face on the paint  . Working to work sucks. Especially in the heat. Looking good, keep pushing.


----------



## firecat1981

Dessicant filter came early, so I'll try it tomorrow. Besides the console not much needs to be near perfect on the interior.


----------



## DuckNut

I don't know what kind of compressor you have but some have an intake that has a fiber filter over the end just like an older cars air filter.

If yours has something similar could you take an according dryer vent tube and attach it to it and then take the other end and possibly get it inside the house where the a/c has removed the moisture?

Or put the whole compressor inside when your wife is gone


----------



## firecat1981

Great minds Duck.
I actually thought about this the other day. We have a mud room in between the garage and kitchen I could put the compressor in. However the wife nixed that idea quickly because she works from home and her office is near by. So I thought about a hose. I'm going to HD in a bit to see what I can do. I just replaced the filter and it looks like a typical 3/4" fitting, but only has a 1/4" intake hole. I'm sure I can find what I need. 
So drafting less humid air, 2 water filters, a desiccant filter, and a ball filter should get me there? Lol.


----------



## DuckNut

Send her to her parents for the day


----------



## JC Designs

DuckNut said:


> Why all the moisture? Condensation happens between hot and cold and it is certainly not cold.
> 
> Are you sure you got all the moisture out? Something not right with the amount of water your getting.


The air temp is hot coming out of the compressor and the air isn’t cooling before passing through the water separator. My guess is the separator is attached right to the air tank? I run a short hose from a ball valve on my tank down to a bucket and attach to a coiled tube in the bucket, from the bucket/coiled tube the hose comes up to a series of 5 water separators and filters. Before I spray, I drain all filters and air tank. Then I fill the bucket with ice and top off with water making a slurry. The majority of my moisture is trapped in the first water separator so I leave the drain cracked a hair because I have filled it this time of year. I still run a disposable at the gun and toss each day I spray more if I spray a large job.


----------



## JC Designs

In a pinch, a 50’ coil of cheap 3/8” pvc hose will work, just attach after ball valve, drop in bucket, coil, and the attach to dryer.


----------



## firecat1981

I got the water issue handled. The added dessicant filter combined with drafting air from inside the house worked well.

That's the good news. The bad news is the boat looks like shit. I had to sand off the primer I applied because it was rough and hardened like cement. Normally the hardening is a good thing, but the texture from the roller made me have to grind past it in some spots. This exposed the EMC under it which was softer, leading to some burn through. In the end I had to grind down most of the sides and transom again. This in turn made them pretty wavy and exposed a tone of pin holes i previously covered up.

I decided to go ahead and do a coat of rustoleum just to see what happens. Well I was fighting the compressor dropping in pressure. The tube I had running to the inside was getting pinched at the filter. I removed it and it worked better, but I still didn't get a smooth coat. 

It's pretty horrible. Embarrassing really. I'm going to do another coat, sand with 320, and do one more and call it for the exterior.


----------



## firecat1981

With that said, I am really starting to struggle with the financial aspect of this build. I'm not happy with the boat at all, and I'm sure I am north of 10k already. 

Since I'm not happy, does it make sense to drop another 7k on a motor? I have no alternatives here since you can't find a decent used one these days. 

So my choices are dump 7k into this boat, or say I wasted 3 years of my life and move on.


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## jasonrl23

Shallows said:


> I had considered the EMC Quantum too as Boatworks Today seemed to really like it (although he also loves Soft-Sand non-skid - which absolutely ruined my first paint job - so I'm in the same camp - had to paint Perfection twice...).


I enjoyed his older content when he would do reviews of several well known brands. Now its basically down to the 2 he's sponsored by. I watch for methods only at this point.


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## BassFlats

Get the motor. You're not going to find a boat and motor built to your liking for 17g.


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## SeaDrifter

firecat1981 said:


> With that said, I am really starting to struggle with the financial aspect of this build. I'm not happy with the boat at all, and I'm sure I am north of 10k already.
> 
> Since I'm not happy, does it make sense to drop another 7k on a motor? I have no alternatives here since you can't find a decent used one these days.
> 
> So my choices are dump 7k into this boat, or say I wasted 3 years of my life and move on.


I wanted to run a carbbed 2-smoke on my build but they are no longer made so, I rebuilt one. Picked up a running (kind of) '88 Evinrude and rebuilt it completely. Think I'm in it $500 and three days. Not bad to have a new outboard. 

The way I see it you have two choices, sell now and loose your azz or finish it. I know every man has his breaking point but personally I would find it difficult to not complete a build I had so much time, money, and stress into. 


Michael


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## firecat1981

Well I wouldn't be selling her, I'd be chopping her up....maybe burning it. I just hate tossing good money after bad. With a home build like this there just isn't much sellable value in an unfinished project. Had I refitted an aquasport like I was thinking prior to deciding to build, I could have sold off just the hull for a few grand.

I've gone down the route of old outboards before, I know some love them but it's not for me. I get tired of fixing other people's issues. It's either a new 4-stroke, or a recent one.


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## BassFlats

Slap some paint on it and use it. You can repaint it down the road. Or, put a wrap on it. The only thing you are unhappy with is the paint, correct?


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## firecat1981

Paint, construction, design, core materials...... originally this was to be a 20 year boat, now I'm expecting it to survive maybe 3-5.


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## BassFlats

You have to much invested in it to can it. Put a motor on it and use it. You can move the motor and accessories over to another boat down the road if you really dislike this boat


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## firecat1981

That unfortunately seems to be the consensus. She spiraled out of control and I didn't pull the rip cord in time.


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## GoGataGo52__20

I get it man, you out a ton of work in it, but I have to say I think you did an awesome job. The construction itself I think looks awesome bud, you have crazy wood working skills. Sorry it hasn’t turned out how you wanted, best of luck finishing her up.


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## Copahee Hound

firecat1981 said:


> Paint, construction, design, core materials...... originally this was to be a 20 year boat, now I'm expecting it to survive maybe 3-5.


It sounds like you have reached your tipping point? From the outside looking in... I know your you're fuming with frustration, but due to the Rona, you can't find an outboard. So you now have more time to kick yourself in the nuts not enjoying the fruits of your labor. So...

1 Spray another coat and be done, regardless of how it may look (function over fashion)
2 Try rolling a coat and see what happens
3 If the hull is already water tight, get out on the water ASAP and spend time with your family and build your next boat at snail's pace because you already have one to enjoy. (I know I'm relatively new here, but we all know you're going to build another one)

We're also our own worst critics, gets even worse when OCD kicks in. I would wager that your wife thinks it looks great and wants your to take her out in it this weekend!


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## firecat1981

Thanks guys. I've been at my tipping point for a long while. I keep pushing forward, but this darn boat keeps pushing back. Everything I do now is function over form, and I'm not sure how much more of a snails pace I can move at, lol.
My wife has guilt and anger issues over this boat. She told me to keep going years ago because of the money spent, then gets upset because I've now tripled it. She stopped coming to the garage when she went from "it looks great" to "it's not that bad". That said, she keeps talking about the boat clubs now.


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## firecat1981

I think I'm officially changing the name of this boat. Henceforth this little [email protected]# shall be known as:

CURSE OF THE PLYTANIC


----------



## Moonpie

I still think Goat Rope would be the perfect name for this boat.


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## firecat1981

I'm just trying to justify 3 years of my life. I don't even care about the money much, but I can't get the time back and I feel it was wasted mostly.

My paint drama continues. I just messed up this coat so bad I'll need to grind it off again. Drip city. It was my fault this time as I tried to get the tight edge under the rub rail. I'm switching back to rollers. Not even going to tip it, just sand it down, roll on a coat and move on with my life. I was just talking with my wife about how much work is left before I can even get it inspected. Lots.


----------



## M48SHOOTER

That sucks brother. All of us tinkerer/DIY guys on here know the feelings you are having and you are not alone.

That being said I have not built a boat from the ground up before. I normally find lost souls and bring them back to life. Boats, bikes, cars ect.

ALL, and I mean ALL of my best projects have almost been set on fire at least once. Most of the time due to some screw up of mine, or something I should known, or taken more time on.

I have learned to focus on eating the elephant one bite at a time. Find something OTHER then the most recent setback and fix that. Stop banging your head against the wall brother.

Either that, or walk away from it for a bit. Rent a boat, take the wife and family out. It's hard to do your best woek when your head is not in the game.

I have read every page of Plytanic 1 and 2. I am somewhat local and kicked myself for missing out on the re-homing of Plytanic 1.

I know I would hate to see you not finish. But, I'd you are going to dump it, just sell it, dont burn it, get some of your cash back. Give the buyer a thumb drive with these posts and pics in it so they can show the nice FWC officer, a bill of sale and copies of all your receipts, and move on.

But don't chop it up buddy. Your time and effort is worth more then that. There is someone out there who would jump at the chance to finish it.

When I was almost done with my bobber M/C, I was ready to kick it over.... I had several conversations with her with a can of gasoline and a lighter in my hand. Ultimately I walked away from her for almost a month. I rented a bike and took some nice rides and it reminded why I wanted to turn that broken down old bike into a nice ride again.

Dont quit brother. But, if you are done, dont chop her up.

That's it, sorry so long, just adding my two pennies to the pile.

Thank you for the great threads, I learned alot that in used durning my recent boat rescue.


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## JC Designs

I have one project on my plate and another coming, but bring me the damn thing and I’ll paint it for ya no charge! I hate to see ya this frustrated over it, you put a lot of work and quality work at that in to this build and I have much respect for your craftsmanship! All you gotta supply is a matched paint/primer system of your liking. And if ya wanna do a little sanding first I wouldn’t be opposed to that either!😎


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## firecat1981

Damn kind offer JC, but I think I got it going now. I have to take a few days off to help some friends, but after that I'll just roll it out and be done with the exterior. All the initial prep work is shot, as is most of the primer, but that doesn't matter much to good old rustoleum.
I am switching it up a bit though. I'm going to go with satin paint for the interior. Less glare to see imperfections, I mean for fishing and stuff.

If the exterior still looks kinda wonky, then I think I'm going to just camo the outside with darker blues over the ice blue.

I thank everyone for their encouragement, I just needed to vent and walk away from this cursed project. The next one will be much different, might even just go with gelcoat.


----------



## SeaDrifter

I’m right there with you on the outboard. I want a short shaft, electric start and tilt white Tohatsu 20 but currently I can’t even source a manual short shaft 15 in black. If I want to be on the water I have to keep putting lipstick on a pig and patch up the old Evinrude 15. It is frustrating but this too shall pass!

Michael


----------



## State fish rob

firecat1981 said:


> Damn kind offer JC, but I think I got it going now. I have to take a few days off to help some friends, but after that I'll just roll it out and be done with the exterior. All the initial prep work is shot, as is most of the primer, but that doesn't matter much to good old rustoleum.
> I am switching it up a bit though. I'm going to go with satin paint for the interior. Less glare to see imperfections, I mean for fishing and stuff.
> 
> If the exterior still looks kinda wonky, then I think I'm going to just camo the outside with darker blues over the ice blue.
> 
> I thank everyone for their encouragement, I just needed to vent and walk away from this cursed project. The next one will be much different, might even just go with gelcoat.


I read your last paragraph twice.“ The next one will be much different......”. I love it ! ! Keep up the good fight . Remember, it’s a boat not a piano , good stuff. Thank you


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## firecat1981

I'm plugging along a little at a time. And yes I'm sure there will be another boat I'm sure, even if it's just a foam core foldable dingy for the back of the truck.

So I think I decided on a final paint scheme. Originally it was going to be all ice blue with just off white non-skid. Now I'm switching to ice blue exterior, with satin white interior and ice blue non-skid. Doing it this way will cut a little glare and actually be a bit easier.


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## bryson

Glad to hear you're still moving along. Sounds like you've gotten the paint sorted out, but for a backup plan you could just prime it and fish the boat for a while to enjoy all the hard work you've put into it. Then when you're feeling up to it go ahead and fine-tune the finish and shoot some paint.

The Alexseal rep gave me the green light to do just that with their high build primer, and it really made a big difference for me. It's given me time to enjoy the boat and take a little breather. I know I still have plenty of fairing and sanding in front of me, but it's nice to know I can wait until I'm mentally/physically ready to dive back in.

Look forward to seeing some more pictures, keep fighting the good fight!


----------



## firecat1981

Already talked to FWC about that. They will not inspect a boat until it is painted and water ready. His definition is everything must be finished with the exception of hanging the motor before he will set the appointment.


----------



## bryson

If I didn't tell you that it was primer, you'd never know. I've seen production boats with far worse looking finishes.

Either way, I also understand wanting to be completely done with it instead of trying to enjoy it while knowing you have more work to do.


----------



## firecat1981

Well it’s been a bit since I posted. Progress has been made. I rolled on some rustoleum on the exterior. She has some roller marks, brush marks, orange peel, drips, and a few bugs, but it looks good enough from 20ft away so good enough. I also rolled some satin white on the cap with similar results, but much of it will be covered up by non skid.

With that done I am able to work on some other things before painting the interior. I started the rub rail. So Tessilmare likes to brag that their rub rail can make it around a tight corner, well I’m calling BS on their definition. The videos they post show you how to go around a maybe 3” radius which is tight on a 40ft yatch, but not on a skiff. I’ve found personal youtube videos, but none that show a great bit of detail. The track will NOT bend around a sharp corner, as soon as I tried it folded over and warped. So I had to just cut the track and I’ll work out the rubber later.

20201020_112317_resized  , on Flickr

You can see how the rubber distorts, but I’m hoping I can clean it up later with a heat gun. It’s a bit worse around the bow.

20201020_112303_resized  , on Flickr

So back to the track. It’s a bitch to install! It comes in a coil and it is ridged plastic. I tried to straighten it but it resists a lot. I ended up just muscling it for the starboard half, and it took nearly 2 hours. For the port side my wife was able to help, and with her just managing the coil I had it drilled and screwed in about 20 minutes. I need to add a few more screws still. My plan is to let it relax for a week or 2 while I work on other things, then I’ll remove the track squirt some epoxy in the screw holes, let it cure, then dab them with some 4200 and reinstall everything.

20201020_121954_resized  , on Flickr

Among some other small items I was able to install the navigation lights I got from Oznium. They are barely noticeable in person, unlike the giant sharkeyes I was going to use.

20201020_122015_resized  , on Flickr

Installed the rear cleats, hinges, and stern light.

20201020_122041_resized  , on Flickr

Also did the fittings for the livewell, bilge pump, livewell pump (still have to intall the scoop), stern and bow eyes, and the underwater LED’s.

20201020_122050_resized  , on Flickr

I finished up most of the rear wiring. Working through that tiny inspection hatch is a pain, so I might need to change it out for a bigger hatch.

20201021_135124_resized  , on Flickr

20201021_135047_resized  , on Flickr

More to come.


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## makin moves

Try lying the track out in the sun for several hours see if it help. Looking good!


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## JC Designs

makin moves said:


> Try lying the track out in the sun for several hours see if it help. Looking good!


It does! And a heat gun will get it around a corner. For the rubber, a heat gun and creative clamping is needed for tighter corners.


----------



## firecat1981

I tried setting it out in the sun, but we have had some cloudy days. I tried a heat gun on a sample bend, but it still collapsed and distorted. At that point I was worried I'd run out of track if I played to much.

As long as I can work the rubber with some heat to tighten up the corners I'll be happy with it. That said I will not build another skiff with sharp corners on the cap.


----------



## Sublime

Looking good.

I'd terminate that rub rail at the stern and not go around the corner. I never found a rub rail did much of anything back there. Trim tabs and the outboard will hit a bulkhead before any rub rail will.


----------



## firecat1981

So I actually had a bit of an impact on my last skiff and that's why I'm wrapping it around the transom. I rent houses and dock for a week at a time and also boat to some bars and eateries. Some docks are better then others. I had 2 instances where, because I have a smaller boat, I got pushed up to a piling that was spread pretty far. First time it just scratched the back deck a bit. Second time caught the end of the rub rail on the side and ripped out a few screws. The trolling motor prevented me from docking a better way.


----------



## firecat1981

I'm slapping paint on when I can, and while waiting for it to dry I'm doing some small things. Some minor electrical, some more plumbing... And now I'm playing with the non-skid. I'm cutting it all out with a razor so it won't be perfect, but nothing else is so it will match, lol. I'm using a 1:2 mix of medium and fine pumice. 

20201027_141940_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I may have gone a bit heavier then needed on this first try.

20201027_144101_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## firecat1981

Well I think it came out pretty good.

20201029_105748_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Not the straightest of cuts, but not to shabby. The ice blue against the white is subtle but nice I think.

20201029_105756_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

With the test area done I moved on to doing the rest of the cap. I left areas in the back without it because it's either a place no one will ever stand, or a place I might put more equipment. I can always add more later.

20201029_163004_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

20201029_174550_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So I think the medium mixed with the fine pumice is bit rougher then I'd like. However it wasn't worth grinding the cap down and redoing everything, so I'm using the same 1:2 mix on the rest of the cap. Moving on the floor and front hatch will get just fine ground pumice.


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## Parkerized

Non skid looks great. What brand is it, and what was the process?


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## firecat1981

It's just ground pumice from FGCI. Roll on some paint to act as glue, and sprinkle on a healthy dose. Vacuum several times to get the lose bits up, then paint 2-3 more coats of paint to seal it up.


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## Parkerized

Looks great. Very consistent.


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## firecat1981

Thanks, it's not to bad. 

I'm working on a few things. I painted the interior except where the non-skid will go. It's rough, rougher then I thought, but the fish won't care. I bolted on the console door and latch.

20201104_165253_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I'm working on the non-skid patterns. The front deck is tricky as the sides are slightly unsymmetrical, but I think if I do a simple geometric pattern (triangles and trapezoid) it will look good. The front hatch will be simple. I wanted to do a cool pattern, but my wife talked my out of it. Instead I decided to add a 24" fish ruler. I think it will come out well.

20201105_215128_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## GoGataGo52__20

Man she's really lookin good now man, you should start a skiff building company you got serious skills.


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## firecat1981

GoGataGo52__20 said:


> Man she's really lookin good now man, you should start a skiff building company you got serious skills.


Thank you, but NO! Lol. I have thought about making some minor parts on the side to sell, but that's down the line.


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## firecat1981

Progress has been made. I have done a bit of work the last few days because I wanted to finish the boat up as much as I could prior to going in for shoulder surgery. I wired up the switch panel and bought a new group 24 deep cycle to run the engine and onboard systems. I will buy a group 27/29 later on for the trolling motor. With the battery I was now able to inspect my handy work. Everything works as it should. The Oznium navigation lights are nice and bright, brighter then the attwood LED’s I used last time.

20201111_171747_resized - Copy  , on Flickr

Here are the underwater LED lights. This is in the daytime, cloudy outside, with the garage lights turned off. For the money and low power consumption they put out a good amount of light.

20201111_171708_resized  , on Flickr

So I spent the week finishing up most of the little things. I installed inspection plates, hatch spring, bungee cords, helm, tank, fuel lines……

This morning she was inspected by the FWC! I’ll have to wait a month or more for the FL numbers and HIN, but I’ll be down with the surgery anyway. I’ll arrange to buy and hang the motor in late January or February. This is how she sits this morning. Everything is basically done, except for the rubrail, which is ready to go back on.

20201112_112349_resized  , on Flickr

20201112_112324_resized  , on Flickr

20201112_112306_resized - Copy  , on Flickr

20201112_112249_resized  , on Flickr

Here is a close up of the fish ruler.

20201112_112258_resized - Copy  , on Flickr

20201112_112232_resized - Copy  , on Flickr

20201112_112224_resized - Copy  , on Flickr

20201112_112440_resized  , on Flickr

The life vests will be stored behind the bungee cords.

20201112_112434_resized - Copy  , on Flickr

I’ll get more pics once the motor and rubrail are done.


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## JC Designs

Looks great!🔥🔥🔥


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## Chris Beutel

It looks really good. How much lead time did you need for the inspection? Looking forward to seeing her finished and good luck with your surgery.


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## firecat1981

Thanks guys. They were able to come a week after calling them, but it could take up to 2 months to get the HIN and FL numbers.


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## DuckNut

Great job FC! Such a huge victory sticking with it after all the adversity.

Congrats - now go and slime her.


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## firecat1981

Thanks. I can't slime her until mid February. I had surgery yesterday to repair my rotator cuff. I still gotta find a motor.


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## GoGataGo52__20

Man she turned out really really nice, you gotta be proud of her with all you went through man. What motor you gonna put on her?


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## firecat1981

Thank you Sir. The plan is for a 60hp zuke or tohatsu.


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## Cut Runner

Great job buddy. I really do like every detail. Just think how far we have came.. 
I know you take great pride in your work, as do I, and the problem with that is that we know where every little imperfection is. I've learned to not let it bother me as you can be assured that when the boat begins to explore the open waterways something is bound to scratch and ding it. Better to enjoy it than be a slave to it trying to achieve perfection that wont last anyways. Ask me how I know. Hope all is well. Bring that thing over to stuart!


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## firecat1981

Cut Runner said:


> Great job buddy. I really do like every detail. Just think how far we have came..
> I know you take great pride in your work, as do I, and the problem with that is that we know where every little imperfection is. I've learned to not let it bother me as you can be assured that when the boat begins to explore the open waterways something is bound to scratch and ding it. Better to enjoy it than be a slave to it trying to achieve perfection that wont last anyways. Ask me how I know. Hope all is well. Bring that thing over to stuart!


Thank you Sir, but I believe you have achieved a level of perfection that far exceeds my current abilities. If I'm not mistaken I saw a clip of your dive boat recently on TV. I love the mini pilot house you got going.
I will use and abuse her like the others no doubt. I planned on my last boat to fish for 2-3 years before building another one, but had to keep it for nearly 9. I plan a similar time line for this one. Keep it maybe 2 years, then start thinking about a more durable replacement.


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## Cut Runner

Yep that was the last 4 years of my life you saw on tv. I have a feeling you'll really enjoy this one


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## JC Designs

Cut Runner said:


> Yep that was the last 4 years of my life you saw on tv. I have a feeling you'll really enjoy this one


Got a link Cut? I’ve seen bits and pieces but would love to see it all brother!


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## Brett

What? You thought I haven't been watching?


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## firecat1981

I think this is the dreamboat episode with Cut's new-ish boat.

Edit: yep start at 6:35


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## JC Designs

Love it!🤙🏻🔥🔥🔥


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## firecat1981

Don't think you can find a nicer 23fter.


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## Cut Runner

Thank you guys!
I think in another year or so I will probably be rebuilding/building another skiff as the sickness will start calling to me again. You guys will know all about it!


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## firecat1981

Well finally some good news. I got her titled and registered today.

A story of pure bureaucracy:

FWC refused to come look at my boat until it was 100% water ready except for the outboard being mounted. I tried to get it done when it was mostly through the paint process so I could get the outboard mounted before I went out for shoulder surgery, but no dice. So I got them to come a few days before I went out.

I had receipts proving I paid taxes on the materials, and pictures of the build waiting. The FWC officer looked over the boat for a few seconds and got her laptop out to take some info. It was a simple form that along with the pics and receipts she was required to send to the state.

More then 5 weeks later I received a package in the mail. It had her simple form, a generic application for title, and a simple affidavit to sign assuring it is a home build. They also returned my pictures for some reason, but not the receipts.

The above is what I'm annoyed about. There was no magic stamp or forms provided by the state. She could have, if allowed, emailed me the forms right there and I could have gone to the tax office an hour later! This was Government red tape on full display.

Well I took the forms to the tax collectors office. 40 minutes later I had a title, registration, and a sticker. They didn't need the pictures since it was inspected by the FWC, but they needed the receipts. Luckily I had copies with me.

I'm good, once my shoulder heals more, to go get the outboard installed, and put on the FL numbers, HIN, and capacity sticker. So she still might not touch water until sometime in February.


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## JC Designs

My LEO prints and signs the forms when he shows up, but they do it all the time here with all the well boats. That is actually the reason they want the boat complete. Too many folks called for inspections then decided to make the boat longer thus requiring a 2nd inspection wasting the officer’s time. FWC’s biggest problem is their dispatch is clueless! The LEO shouldn’t have taken your receipts either, they are not the tax collector. They need to look at them but not take them. Next time, call dispatch and request a commanding officer. They’ll know what to do!


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## firecat1981

I told her she could have the receipts and pics. I just can't believe they couldn't print or email me right there once I saw what I got back.


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## firecat1981

Now that I gotta wait more I figured I could work on the logo. Originally I was going to do something to incorporate a wood pattern, or the flag from the white star line (Titanics builder). However since I grew to hate this build and swear it was cursed, I have renamed the boat The Curse of the Plytanic. With that I thought I'd take a spin at the logo from the show The Curse of Oak Island. Let me know what you think.

OAKISLAND https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

CURSE WEB https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Cut Runner

Well hopefully it's not too cursed and you find some fish with it


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## firecat1981

I waited until I got released back to work after shoulder surgery to start arranging for the outboard. So it's only been a few weeks. Unfortunately with everything going on in the world I'll have to wait a bit. They have the dark grey tohatsu in stock, but I want the white one. Maybe by the end of the month?


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## firecat1981

So I finally took her out of the garage. She's looking pretty good in the sun. She will never look this good again, lol.

20210316_140540_resized[6554] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

So originally I planned on a Suzuki 60hp because it was the lightest at the time. Then came the new Tohatsu and it shaved off another 10lbs or so. Both were available in white so I was happy either way. Well thanks to Covid the manufacturing and shipping has been a mess. I'm looking at maybe late June to get either one. That wouldn't be an issue except I have a really nice house booked for Marco Island in early June and need this boat for it. Wednesday is my last day to cancel and get my money back, so I frantically called every dealer I could in the state. Many said I think we can get you one in a month.... most were honest and told me maybe June or July. 
The good news.... I found a 60hp Tohatsu, his last one, at Citrus Marine. The neutral news.... it's not the white I planned on, but it is actually dark blue so it will match the boat. I drop it off on Wednesday for the install.


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## firecat1981

After much sweat, tears, heartache, and blood I was finally able to launch the boat. I picked up the boat after getting the new Tohatsu 60hp installed. I originally was hoping for a white motor, but because of covid I couldn’t get one in until maybe June. That wasn’t going to work since we had a house rented in Marco island before that, so dark blue it is. After PDI and prop selection the motor had about 2 hours upon picking it up. They tested it in the Homosassa river, so if you are familiar, you know there is a long distance of slow speed before you can open her up. 

I decided since it will be a 2 hour ride home I would do the same. I launched her at McRae’s and started idling down river.

20210416_121517_resized  , on Flickr

20210416_120249_resized  , on Flickr

20210416_120256_resized  , on Flickr

So here is where things went a little wonky. I don’t have a GPS installed yet because I wanted to see where the best position would be after the controls are installed. I’ve been down the river before, but it can be treacherous with the submerged rocks and bars. I had navionics on my phone, but it didn’t even have the river on it. Once we left the slow speed zone I opened her up a little. To my surprise it jumped up quick! Launched is more like it. I can’t hammer it to much being it’s only got a few hours on it yet, but more on that later. I was behind a quick pontoon boat while trying to look at my cell for current speed on navionics. Well he was going to visit a buddy down one of the side channels, so I was a bit off the main river and out of sight of any channel markers. All I kept thinking is I can’t be the guy to lose a lower unit on a brand new motor. While navionics sucked for mapping it did record my track so I zoomed in and idled back for 10 minutes until I was back in the channel. I decided that was enough of a test and made my way back to the ramp. I drove back to Lakeland and launched her in Lake Hunter.

20210416_161604_resized  , on Flickr

Here I was able to play with it as much as I wanted…..within the break-in instructions. These are the Tohatsu break-in directions.

20210418_125725_resized[6574]  , on Flickr

So basically I can do ¾ throttle, and an occasional full throttle run. I have just a Solas Aluminum Prop on it for now and it may loosen up a little more, but so far I’m very happy with the numbers. I expected between 32 to 35mph top speed based on other FS17 builds. Here are some quick numbers:

6.3mph @ 1600rpm

17.7mph @ 3200rpm

36.1mph @ 5800rpm – Full Throttle!

I’ll update some more soon with what I think of the hull and ride, and get some more pics and videos going. It’s faster than I thought, and we will be using it quite a bit the next few weeks. Stay tuned!


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## WhiteDog70810

Congrats man! Good to see it on the water. Enjoy!

Nate


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## Cut Runner

I'm so glad to hear you got her in the water!
Trials and tribulations man, sometimes its rough but eventually you'll finish and you have. It looks great!
In reading your last couple of posts , I was going to loan you the hobie for your trip if you didnt get a motor.
So, when will the curse be spotted on this coast?


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## bryson

Congrats! I like the look of the darker motor -- I think I personally would prefer it over the white on your skiff. Boat looks fantastic too.


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## firecat1981

Thanks Gents. I've got some fine tuning to do. Cut, that would be a mighty generous offer, luckily we got her all buttoned up. Not sure about making it back to the East coast, maybe later this year?

I took her out again today to try and finish breaking in the motor. Whatever marine forecast I looked up 2 days ago was DEAD WRONG!

It looked ok in the river, just a bit windy.

20210422_072732_resized kevin lefkowitz, on Flickr

I launched out of the Alafia river, and as you can see Tampa Bay was a bit sporty. A nasty chop and 20+mph winds. It was hard to hold onto the phone to film and control the skiff. This is after I slowed down to about 7mph. You might need to click to see the video, can't figure it out. 

Bad boating day kevin lefkowitz, on Flickr

I retreated back to the river, and after about 20 laps in the 25mph zone I quit and went fishing. A damn catfish christened the skiff, go figure.

20210422_090054_resized kevin lefkowitz, on Flickr

A few of them, a Lady fish, and then I think a whiting. It's been a while since I caught any.

20210422_101740_resized kevin lefkowitz, on Flickr

A few more hours until the break in is done. The tohatsu has plenty of power, and gets real throaty at WOT. I was only able to do WOT for a bout 30 seconds, but even though it was less then smooth I hit 36.3mph @ 5800RPM. A slow cruise was comfortable at 24-25mph @ 3800-4000rpm.


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## Cut Runner

"A damn catfish christened the skiff, go figure"

Lmao
Man, I get more nervous about my new boats first fish than I do about the boat itself.
I didnt actually fish on my 23 till about the 8th time out because I wanted good guaranteed conditions to not catch a crap fish as its first .
First fish in that boat was a nice 15lb bull dolphin I sight casted a rootbeer doa terror eyez to.


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## SurfDuffer

That bottom fish we call a southern Kingfish. They don't get very big but they are excellent eating.


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## firecat1981

Funny name considering its dinky nature. Kingfish in Florida are a totally different species.

I forgot to post this one from the other day. Here you can see the scupper holes are well above the water at rest. The tubes are 1.5" and it has about a 1.5" drop from the sole. So at the dock the sole is about 2" above the waterline. Keep in mind I raised my sole and 1" too. I am using rubber plugs for now when the boat is in use, I may upgrade to ping pong scupper caps later on.

20210416_121424_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I took the boat out to Lake Parker today, just get some hours on the motor. It was pretty windy.

20210427_125350_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

This was on the northern part of the lake where it was calmer. The southern side had white caps. I just can't catch a break with this weather.

20210427_120531_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

I spent 1.5 hours basically doing loops in the northern part of the lake. Motor now has about 8 hours on it. 2 more hours until the break in is done, and 12 until I have to change the oil.

20210427_130659_resized https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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## Open Fly -The Later Years

Congrats Firecat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great job man ! Beautiful ! You should be proud !
I'm with bryson, I like the blue engine . Hey all of those are excellent tarpon baits !!!!!!!!
Dave


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## firecat1981

I'm working on putting some hours on her. the windy conditions have had me sitting at home, but today didn't look bad locally. I took her out to Lake Hunter again and ran around. It was calmer for the first 30 minutes or so. I was able to hit 37mph @ WOT and 5800rpm. Not to shabby. It slides a bit in turns and ventilates, so I'll be looking to address that after we get back from vacation. 

So they say there's no such thing as a bad day on the water. Well that can be challenged, lol. Today was not a bad day, but it was less then exciting. Lapping a smaller lake for 2 hours.... yeah. Good news is I finished my 10 hour break in. Here's my Spaghetti track.

lk hunter https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr


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