# Irritation with backing capacity and lines



## BM_Barrelcooker (May 4, 2011)

I just clip the main line until it fits......backing is waaaaay too important to sacrifice.


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## Bonesonthebrain (Jan 2, 2020)

Monic and Airflo lines take up a ton more room than other lines, due to the material. Not the reel or backings fault.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Are you using a spooling machine or hand reeling onto the spool?


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Yep, cut off part of the back of the fly line. If a knot bothers you, whip a loop on the back end. Its not hard at all.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I was told that the Rio Direct Core Flats Pro 8wt is really the same weight as a 9wt, according to the affta chart, admittedly by Rio. So it maybe the diameter of your Flats Pro is larger than what a normal 8wt fly line diameter would be. So that's probably what is taking up so much space in the spool. Also, 150yrds of backing on an 8wt in Tampa Bay is really all you need, unless you are going bonefish fishing somewhere's else.

What brand of backing is it. I haven't use dacron in like 25yrs. I usually use Cortland Micron in 20, which is about 25% less dia. Or you could spend the money and buy Rio's GSP 50, which is also smoother and less diameter than 20lb dacron. Or go to 50lb Seaguar Threadlock hollow core braid, which lays flat and therefore will save space. It's also expensive, but hey, you're putting it on an Abel! 

So the Rio Flats Pro is 105ft. I'm sure you are not doing 115ft of fishing cast (105ft of fly line + 10ft of leader). So clip off 15 to 20ft of running line at the backing side of your fly line. That will still give you fly line cast from 95-100ft (leader included) and you can still shoot backing if you feel it's needed (hightly doubt it's needed tho ). There will be the simplest fix to keeping that line and your 200yrds of dacron. BTW, the Monic is a 8.5wt line, so the diameter will also be a bit larger on that one as well.

Ted


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

I’m hand reeling the backing on. I guess I’ll have to relent and cut the line and use a nail knot.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

You need to reel that backing on as tight as possible for two reasons. So it fits and so when a fish runs into backing with drag it doesn’t dig into itself and break.


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

Line cut, backing nail knotted on. Problem solved. Although it still irks me that I have to cut the line. lol


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

I’m always glad to pay the fly shop $5 to wind on the backing. The machine packs it on so much better than I can.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

What are you going to catch on an 8wt that requires 200+ yards (over two football fields) of backing?


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

I use the same rod for bone fishing, plus I’ve caught some enormous jacks that had me well down in the backing. Just being conservative.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Just a reminder. too much backing with too much pressure will deform some spools.


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

That would suck


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Gadaboutgaddis said:


> I use the same rod for bone fishing, plus I’ve caught some enormous jacks that had me well down in the backing. Just being conservative.


Crank that drag down and put the heat on them...if they break off they win IMHO. 

Had about a 4' blacktip on my 6wt once. Didn't even try to fight him.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> You need to reel that backing on as tight as possible for two reasons. So it fits and so when a fish runs into backing with drag it doesn’t dig into itself and break.


This!!! ^^^

I'll take an old wash cloth, fold it longways while wrapping the backing in it and basically make a tube where the backing will slide thru it. Then with my rod hand, I'll sort of fold it into an "S" and use that hand with the folded wash cloth in my hand in that configuration and hold it about a foot or so away from the reel with my thumb touching the rod. Then start winding it with enough pressure where the line goes on tight, but not too much to bind in the towel tube, making sure you wind it back and forth as level as possible. It usually does the trick packing it on tightly, to save me a trip to a fly shop.


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

Thanks Ted. I’ll use that. 

in terms of the amount of backing. As a long term freshwater trout guy. The first large saltwater fish I caught 20 years ago was a large striper. Between the size of the fish and the current I was taken into the backing to the point that when I looked down at the reel and saw black (the spool) I realized I was about to be spooled. So now I always want enough backing so that regardless of the fish or the current (not an issue for the most part down here) that won’t happen. 

it’s a larger issue. I wish reel manufacturers would not be so optimistic on capacity and line manufacturers would produce lines true to the astm standards. Less hunt and peck when setting up a reel 

Again. First world problem. 

Gad


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## BM_Barrelcooker (May 4, 2011)

Backwater said:


> I was told that the Rio Direct Core Flats Pro 8wt is really the same weight as a 9wt, according to the affta chart, admittedly by Rio. So it maybe the diameter of your Flats Pro is larger than what a normal 8wt fly line diameter would be. So that's probably what is taking up so much space in the spool. Also, 150yrds of backing on an 8wt in Tampa Bay is really all you need, unless you are going bonefish fishing somewhere's else.
> 
> What brand of backing is it. I haven't use dacron in like 25yrs. I usually use Cortland Micron in 20, which is about 25% less dia. Or you could spend the money and buy Rio's GSP 50, which is also smoother and less diameter than 20lb dacron. Or go to 50lb Seaguar Threadlock hollow core braid, which lays flat and therefore will save space. It's also expensive, but hey, you're putting it on an Abel!
> 
> ...


I think he pretty well covered it all. 

I love that flats pro line !!!


Come on spring !!


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I use a line winder. 30# SA gel-spun. It's time-consuming but I wind the line on the spool, tie the backing to the line with an overhand knot, and wind backing until the reel is full. Wind the backing off, wind the line off, then put them on the reel in the correct order. At the line end of the backing I tie a 30 turn Bimini twist. With the double line I make a three turn surgeon's loop large enough to get a fly line spool through so I can change lines by unlooping the old line and loop on the new one. I want all the backing I can get on the reel. I wet a cloth and use it to keep tension on the backing as I wind it on. It's important to put the fly line on tightly, too. I saw a friend pop his tippet on a false albacore when his fly line dug in.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Backwater said:


> This!!! ^^^
> 
> I'll take an old wash cloth, fold it longways while wrapping the backing in it and basically make a tube where the backing will slide thru it. Then with my rod hand, I'll sort of fold it into an "S" and use that hand with the folded wash cloth in my hand in that configuration and hold it about a foot or so away from the reel with my thumb touching the rod. Then start winding it with enough pressure where the line goes on tight, but not too much to bind in the towel tube, making sure you wind it back and forth as level as possible. It usually does the trick for me and saves me a trip to a fly shop.


I’m a ******* so I spool it up normally then hook a fence post, walk it out and then reel it up with some tension on the rod. I do the same on all my baitcasters and spinning reels as well.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

I have a couple broken rods, bait caster and spin, with the butt, reel seat and first guide still intact. When spooling on line (braid or backing), I mount the reel, thread the line through the guide and then crank on by hand through a damp rag and with the drag tightened down. Can really pack it on tight and haven't had any issues with line digging in. Also helps to maximize capacity.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Gadaboutgaddis said:


> I’m hand reeling the backing on. I guess I’ll have to relent and cut the line and use a nail knot.


Hey go back and check that nail knot. Just to add a little insurance, I'd use a dbl nail knot. I know those big jacks can rip some string and pull very hard. So you'd want that little extra insurance.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

You can solve not enough reel space for the desired amount of backing by going up a size with your reel.


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## Frank Ucci (Jan 20, 2019)

First, I use gel-spun backing on my reels. I tie a large double surgeons loop on the fly line end of my backing. I then loop the welded loop on the fly line onto this backing's loop. If I find that there is too much backing, I undo the loops, cut away the excess backing, retie the double surgeons loop and loop on the fly line. I've never had a failure at this connection. 
FWIW the AirFlow lines are considerably thicker than Scientific Angler lines of the same weight and will take up a lot more space on your spool. I'm too old to spend my remaining days trying to tie a perfect Bimini, so I try to keep things as simple and quick as I can.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

I haven’t had any problems with perfection loops in the backing to factory welded loops in the fly line with jack creavelle, sharks or better reds. That connection for fly line to backing might not be within the saltwater fly fishing orthodoxy, but so far, so good. 

I’m using 30 or 40 pound sufix braid (gel spun polyethylene + gore). Connection goes through the guides fine without hanging up. Dacron Braid takes up a lot more room than these modern braids, so do some of the big, heavy head lines Saltwater fly lines that are usually a size or so overweight. 100’ plus fly lines take up more space than 90’ ones. These stated reel capacities don’t seem to account for how variable fly line is. 

Better jacks for sure invariably run off a lot of line so it’s nice to have a good amount, like 200 yards, of backing if those fish are a potential and you want to bring the fish to hand. If you are wading, you won’t be able to follow them like you might in a boat. 

There’s always something in my leader or tippet or the hook that’s a lot weaker than anything from the fly line to the reel. I guess if you are running heavier than 20# tippet, maybe all the knots and connections ought to be bullet proof. So far, I’ve bent open hooks or snapped tippet on fish, but never have had the loop to loop backing to fly line connection fail.


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## TwitchAO (Feb 18, 2019)

Backwater said:


> I was told that the Rio Direct Core Flats Pro 8wt is really the same weight as a 9wt, according to the affta chart, admittedly by Rio. So it maybe the diameter of your Flats Pro is larger than what a normal 8wt fly line diameter would be. So that's probably what is taking up so much space in the spool. Also, 150yrds of backing on an 8wt in Tampa Bay is really all you need, unless you are going bonefish fishing somewhere's else.
> 
> What brand of backing is it. I haven't use dacron in like 25yrs. I usually use Cortland Micron in 20, which is about 25% less dia. Or you could spend the money and buy Rio's GSP 50, which is also smoother and less diameter than 20lb dacron. Or go to 50lb Seaguar Threadlock hollow core braid, which lays flat and therefore will save space. It's also expensive, but hey, you're putting it on an Abel!
> 
> ...


Not really relevant to the thread but something I have learned about the Flats pro line. The first 30 feet on the 8wt line is not near heavy enough to load most 9wt not even a meridian 9wt. If I were using it to make 70-90ft cast to bones it would work but sucked bad for snook fishing in the everglades. I even called Scott and they confirmed that you should not underline that rod as I was told to do so by a pretty experienced shop. Also the flats pro absolutely is horrible for blind casting unless you want to drag your line behind the boat 3-5 time a day. Awesome for tarpon but not for anything where you will be doing more casting throughout the day.


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

Well you guys were right, when I started closely examining how tightly the backing was wound on the reel it was not nearly as tight as I expected. So off came the line and backing and then used smacks ******* winder, a fence post. (double nail knot Ted)

Normally I have BPS wind on backing, but I just got a new flat brimmed hat and some white Costas so wanted to have pretty color backing and they only have orange 

I am glad I started this thread and you guys pointed out what could have been a big problem with a big fish on.

Thanks

Gad


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Good news. Now go put it to the test!


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## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

FYI Abel uses GSP diameter for the backing lengths. Which is why you probably couldn't fit 240 with an 8wt line on it.


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

Loogie said:


> FYI Abel uses GSP diameter for the backing lengths. Which is why you probably couldn't fit 240 with an 8wt line on it.


I did not know that. For you guys that use GSP is it that bad in terms of slicing fingers as is said?


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Backwater said:


> Hey go back and check that nail knot. Just to be save, I'd use a dbl nail knot. I know those big jacks can rip some strink and pull very hard. So you'd want that little extra insurance.


Double Bimini into an Albright


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## Loogie (Jul 24, 2019)

Gadaboutgaddis said:


> I did not know that. For you guys that use GSP is it that bad in terms of slicing fingers as is said?


Never had any issues with GSP, I tend to keep my fingers off the backing anyway. Been using GSP for a long time, I have it on my 5wt Abel for freshwater and all my saltwater reels 7/8/10wts. Works great.

BTW didn't mean to make you second guess yourself, I believe you'll be fine the way you have it set up currently. Maybe you can try GSP on your "next " Abel!!


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

mro said:


> You can solve not enough reel space for the desired amount of backing by going up a size with your reel.


That's what I do but you have to be careful lest a Fly Fishing Shaman jump your ass about it.


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## TwitchAO (Feb 18, 2019)

And


mro said:


> You can solve not enough reel space for the desired amount of backing by going up a size with your reel.


And you get a better retrieval rate.


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

Bonesonthebrain said:


> Monic and Airflo lines take up a ton more room than other lines, due to the material. Not the reel or backings fault.


I have the Abel SDS in 7/8, 9/10, and 11/12 (got a deal getting them as a set). All three have grossly inflated advertised backing capacities. They’re not even close. It’s a joke. No mas “Rabels” for this hombre.


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

Loogie said:


> FYI Abel uses GSP diameter for the backing lengths. Which is why you probably couldn't fit 240 with an 8wt line on it.


That’s not at all what their literature or website says. Unless you’re saying they’re stating their backing capacity as 240 yards of 20 lb. strengtht GSP for the 7/8? 

https://abelreels.com/main/model-sds/


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Gadaboutgaddis said:


> I did not know that. For you guys that use GSP is it that bad in terms of slicing fingers as is said?


Yes! But Rio's GSP 50lb is some of the smoothest backing on the market and the diameter is about the diameter as 20/v Micron or the dia of a good but thin dacron. It actually came in 2nd in my "Backing Shootout" as far as smoothness and non-cutting.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Seymour fish said:


> Double Bimini into an Albright


I figured he was trying to permanently marry the Rio DC Flats Pro to his Abel. 

Dbl Bimini? Not necessary on an 8wt. Bimini? Ok, fine. Albright? Then that puts a bump there since you have to fold over the running line. Sure, he can also get a 50lb braided loop and splice that one. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat for an 8wt. We've had multiple threads on that one.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

mro said:


> You can solve not enough reel space for the desired amount of backing by going up a size with your reel.





FlyBy said:


> That's what I do but you have to be careful lest a Fly Fishing Shaman jump your ass about it.


Come on FlyBy, I'm not that bad. 

But I wouldn't want to shelve that Abel and bump my 9wt just so I can get 200yrs of backing on my 8wt, then have to get another Abel for 9wt.  When really, he can probably catch all the fish he wants ion the guld coast on his 8wt with 100yrds of backing. That being said, he could buy another spool, have that one packed with some Seaguar hollow core or Rio GSP 50 and buy a good bonefish line (smaller diameter) for those bonefish trips. 

Or just re-pack that reel, like he just did.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Backwater said:


> I figured he was trying to permanently marry the Rio DC Flats Pro to his Abel.
> 
> Dbl Bimini? Not necessary on an 8wt. Bimini? Ok, fine. Albright? Then that puts a bump there since you have to fold over the running line. Sure, he can also get a 50lb braided loop and splice that one. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat for an 8wt. We've had multiple threads on that one.


Not looking for any advice. I do what I do with success. Since ‘83.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Seymour fish said:


> Not looking for any advice. I do what I do with success. Since ‘83.


The advise part is not directed at you specifically. Just putting it out there to the virtual public.


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## Seymour fish (May 13, 2018)

Backwater said:


> The advise is not directed at you. Just out there to the public.


Thanks bud


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

My Orvis store put my backing on for free but when I do it my self I use a towel
I tie a surgeon knot in my backing with a loop big enough to go over the reel. Then plybond it


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Or there's Seaguar Threadlock with loops and splices if you like a cherry on top. No knots.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

The most fool proof way to know just how much backing you can put on a reel, no matter the size of the backing or fly line is to wind on the fly line and then the backing. Keep cranking until it is full, then strip it back off and turn it around, make the proper connections and wind it all back on. Yes it is a PITA but I take my time, have a beer or two and know that I have the max amount of backing for that reel and line. It sucked when I was spooling up both 12wt spools but one was a GT/Tuna taper which has a big thick head and the other was a full sink that is fairly thin compared to the floating line. Consequently, there was a noticeable difference in the backing capacity (65lb spectra braid).


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## numbskull (Jan 30, 2019)

I think this has been posted before. 
This video shows an excellent way to fill a reel perfectly regardless of what line or backing you use.


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## Open Fly -The Later Years (Feb 1, 2020)

FlyBy said:


> I use a line winder. 30# SA gel-spun. It's time-consuming but I wind the line on the spool, tie the backing to the line with an overhand knot, and wind backing until the reel is full. Wind the backing off, wind the line off, then put them on the reel in the correct order. At the line end of the backing I tie a 30 turn Bimini twist. With the double line I make a three turn surgeon's loop large enough to get a fly line spool through so I can change lines by unlooping the old line and loop on the new one. I want all the backing I can get on the reel. I wet a cloth and use it to keep tension on the backing as I wind it on. It's important to put the fly line on tightly, too. I saw a friend pop his tippet on a false albacore when his fly line dug in.


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## Open Fly -The Later Years (Feb 1, 2020)

I do the same as flyby. I made a large winding spool, 12 in diameter by 14 inch wide, makes it easy to wind line and/or/both backing and unwind from the other end. 
Capt Dave


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

If you do something long enough, you might wind up with a lot of .... stuff.
I can't remember which is older, the winder or the Maytag


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## Gadaboutgaddis (Jan 19, 2019)

I love that winder.. I need to make me one!


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Backwater said:


> I was told that the Rio Direct Core Flats Pro 8wt is really the same weight as a 9wt, according to the affta chart, admittedly by Rio. So it maybe the diameter of your Flats Pro is larger than what a normal 8wt fly line diameter would be. So that's probably what is taking up so much space in the spool. Also, 150yrds of backing on an 8wt in Tampa Bay is really all you need, unless you are going bonefish fishing somewhere's else.
> 
> What brand of backing is it. I haven't use dacron in like 25yrs. I usually use Cortland Micron in 20, which is about 25% less dia. Or you could spend the money and buy Rio's GSP 50, which is also smoother and less diameter than 20lb dacron. Or go to 50lb Seaguar Threadlock hollow core braid, which lays flat and therefore will save space. It's also expensive, but hey, you're putting it on an Abel!
> 
> ...


This is what I do. I usually cut my lines down to 90 -95 ft and put a braided mono loop on the back of the fly line if I want a loop. Combined with 40 lb hollow core braid like threadlock or hollow ace and you can usually get close to the reels stated backing capacity. You can also feed the fly line directly into the hollow core backing and eliminate the knot or loop all together if you don't plan on swapping lines on a particular reel.


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

I just loaded up an Abel Super 8 with a Flats Pro line 8wt. and 200 yards of Threadlock 50 lb. It might be that Abel published capacities are about right for 50 lb Threadlock instead of the listed 20 lb dacron.

To get a nice loose fit I took 12 feet off the back of the line (maybe did not have to but I despise having any line rub on the reel when cranked in not exactly right). Then I spliced 80 lb Threadlock to the line and to the backing as I could not get the 50 lb to splice directly onto the line.


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## Hank (Jan 14, 2019)

Here is my not quite finished winder. I need to add holders for backing/line spools and a reel seat. One turn of the handle is one yard of backing.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Put a pencil through the spool and have your son hold it, applying the correct amount of thumb pressure on each side of the spool as you wind the reel. Make sure to holler at him to pay attention when the pressure is too tight or loose. It worked for my dad.


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