# Douglas Sky Fly Rods



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I have had a less expensive Douglas 4 wt for a couple years, it's always been a good rod. As I understand it they were started by some folks that worked at one of the other big rod companies. Not sure how much truth there is to that.

I had a chance to cast an 8 wt sky. I like it a lot but didn't care for the grip shape, but that's just a personal preference.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Made in China if it makes a difference to you.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

sjrobin said:


> Made in China if it makes a difference to you.


Korea, but I'm damn sure not paying that much money for a rod made in Korea when there's Americans making a better product.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> Made in China if it makes a difference to you.



Korea. Hardy is made there two. Don't let that discourage you. Some great equipment comes out of Korea. I prefer to buy American too, but if I like a rod made in Korea better than one made in the U.S., I'm buying it.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

when I was talking with ted, he really liked it. there's some good reviews out there of them, I haven't cast one as there is no one within 4 hours of me that carries them. if they are not made in our country I will not buy them anyhow. so far on my quest for a new 8&10, the best I have found is the t&t exocett. stupidly effortless to cast, and most importantly throws very well with a heavy slider/crab fly.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Loomis has shipped the new 7 and 8 wt Pro IMX streamer rods to dealers this week. Available in one piece.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

crc01 said:


> Don't let that discourage you. Some great equipment comes out of Korea.


They save a ton of money on excise taxes by manufacturing overseas. Reels made state side are subject to a 10% excise tax on their first sale. Taxes from acts like Dingell-Johnson and Pittman-Robertson are how we fund wildlife conservation. 

A rod or reel made in China or Korea pays the taxes on the wholesale cost of the reel from the manufacturer. This is before shipping. Conversely, a Tibor or similar pays 10% on the dealer cost. This cost is MUCH higher than a reel made overseas.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm more concerned about the quality of the product and if it's as good of a casting rod as the reviews have stated.

Not too concerned with the fact it's built in the Far East. Many of the parts of our skiffs are made offshore and it's never mentioned (engines, controls, hatch latches & hinges, steering components, cleats, bilge pumps etc etc.).

Kinda funny how folks get worked up over a Korean fly rod but more than happy to plunk down $6,000 - $10,000 for a Tohatsu, Suzuki, Yamaha or Merc.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Net 30 said:


> Many of the parts of our skiffs are made offshore


I was bummed out when I learned Gem Lux is made in china. Lowrance is hecho en Mexico. Not sure if these items are taxed for wildlife conservation, I'm thinking not. 



Net 30 said:


> Kinda funny how folks get worked up over a Korean fly rod but more than happy to plunk down $6,000 - $10,000 for a Tohatsu, Suzuki, Yamaha or Merc.


This is a good point. Does anyone know if outboard motors pay an excise tax to wildlife conservation? I know boat fuel pays the tax. Some Staes will even refund you the Hwy taxes you paid on the fuel that is used on a boat. 

The only reason I brought up the excise tax thing is because we fund our fisheries through these taxes on fishing equipment. It's just one of those things where you can make an informed choice when buying a rod or reel. If outboard motors and hatch hardware applied perhaps this would be a different conversation. 

Full disclosure, I very much love my Korean made Orvis Mirage reel and I also own Korean rods. Had I known then, what I know now, I may have shopped a little more for US built gear.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

sjrobin said:


> Made in China if it makes a difference to you.





sjrobin said:


> Loomis has shipped the new 7 and 8 wt Pro IMX streamer rods to dealers this week. Available in one piece.


I've casted the IMX Pro and the Douglas Sky. There is no doubt, the IMX Pro is a sweet rod, but there is no comparison in actual rod power, which the Sky has for such a light swinging rod. Yes I really like the IMX Pro and it's price point and it does have it's place, but it's not the Sky.

Which brings me to this question. How are we not okay with a US based company having a rod built overseas and then marketing it here in the US and thereby keeping the potential profits here on US soil, as well as the profits that their dealers make, thereby employing US citizens over here and then spending that money back into the American economy.... and then being totally okay with an overseas owned company, like my long beloved G.Loomis, owed and operated now by Shimano, with employees here in the US and the rest of the company in another country, then taking the profits earn over here and sent it out of this country to spend it abroad? Tell me how the latter is better than the 1st?

I also have a Hardy Zephyrus. Beautifully made rod and is a pleasure to cast and fish with. Built in the UK, but owned and marketed now by a US based fishing company called Pure Fishing. Are we not ok with them either?

No, I'm not ok with some Chinese companies trying to sell direct here in the US and tries to undercut everything. Yes I prefer to buy US made products, but I'm also willing to support US based companies if they bring a well made product to the table at a reasonable price point, even if some or all of it is built overseas.

Some would say.... "What's the better of the two evils?" It's very difficult to find businesses not buying or using products from overseas, or even having some or all of their widgets built overseas, to market here in the states. Look at the very computer you are typing on and tell me than none of the components that make it up are not from some far east country (well, to our west anyways).

Last week, I stayed at a nice little waterfront resort hotel on the Jupiter intercoastal waterways and did a little snook fishing over there during the mullet run (really awesome to see). Anyway, it was a really nice clean place, beautiful views of the water with pool and jacuzzi over looking the water (my wife was happy about that). The cleaning gals and grounds keepers were very good and thorough, but couldn't hardly speak one word of English and I doubt they were US Citizens (maybe just a green card). Wouldn't that resort be just as guilty?

Just food for thought.

Ted Haas


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

If you can afford to choose where the products you buy are made or assembled, do so. When it comes to fly fishing, for me, quality is more important than where a product is made. If the quality is the same and I can afford to pay more for USA made or assembled, I will.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Backwater said:


> Which brings me to this question. How are we not okay with a US based company having a rod built overseas and then marketing it here in the US and thereby keeping the potential profits here on US soil, as well as the profits that their dealers make, thereby employing US citizens over here and then spending that money back into the American economy.... and then being totally okay with an overseas owned companies, like my long beloved G.Loomis, owed and operated now by Shimano, with employees here in the US and the rest of the company in another country, then taking the profits earn over here and sent it out of this country to spend it abroad? Tell me how the latter is better than the 1st?


Loomis rods are built in Washington. They pay payroll taxes, all costs associated with full time employees, and are bound by US labor laws. Most importantly they pay a 10% excise tax to fund fisheries management on the first sale of their rods. Douglas does not pay the same in taxes. They are not an equal comparison. 

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument. The reason companies like Douglas have rods manufactured overseas is to keep the manufacturing cost down and save money on excise taxes that are collected on fishing rods and reels. Those taxes are how we fund our fisheries. If you want federal money to clean up the glades, where do you think it comes from? Without that money the North American Model of Conservation does not exist. If you think they are building rods in Korea to save you money, you are sadly mistaken. Rods are being built in Korea to save Douglas money. 

Let's put it this way... If you have cash laying around to spend. $600 on a fishy pole, where it comes from and why it's priced so high are two things that should matter.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> Loomis rods are built in Washington. They pay payroll taxes, all costs associated with full time employees, and are bound by US labor laws. Most importantly they pay a 10% excise tax to fund fisheries management on the first sale of their rods. Douglas does not pay the same in taxes. They are not an equal comparison.
> 
> There is a fundamental flaw in your argument. The reason companies like Douglas have rods manufactured overseas is to keep the manufacturing cost down and save money on excise taxes that are collected on fishing rods and reels. Those taxes are how we fund our fisheries. If you want federal money to clean up the glades, where do you think it comes from? Without that money the North American Model of Conservation does not exist. If you think they are building rods in Korea to save you money, you are sadly mistaken. Rods are being built in Korea to save Douglas money.
> 
> Let's put it this way... If you have cash laying around to spend. $600 on a fishy pole, where it comes from and why it's priced so high are two things that should matter.



Aren't Loomis blanks made in Japan?


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

The SpiralX blanks(Asquith and others) are made in Japan, assembled here. IMX,GLX, NRX made here.


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

sjrobin said:


> The SpiralX blanks(Asquith and others) are made in Japan, assembled here. IMX,GLX, NRX made here.



Got ya. That makes sense since the Spiral X originated with Shimano.


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

I was simply hoping to get some reel world feedback on how these things cast in relation to other 6wts.

Wasn't looking for an explanation on the perils and pitfalls of a global economy.


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Net 30 said:


> I was simply hoping to get some reel world feedback on how these things cast in relation to other 6wts.
> 
> Wasn't looking for an explanation on the perils and pitfalls of a global economy.


It's an online forum. I'm just surprised there's nothing about politics or hurricanes in here yet.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> It's an online forum. I'm just surprised there's nothing about politics or hurricanes in here yet.


It's an alt left rod, so it doesn't have a backbone, therefore it won't cast worth a crap in a hurricane!
Now all bases are covered


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## crc01 (Oct 28, 2016)

Net 30 said:


> I was simply hoping to get some reel world feedback on how these things cast in relation to other 6wts.
> 
> Wasn't looking for an explanation on the perils and pitfalls of a global economy.


Good point. Sorry for taking part in the derailment. I've never cast one personally, but have only heard really good things.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2015)

Rick hambric said:


> It's an alt left rod, so it doesn't have a backbone, therefore it won't cast worth a crap in a hurricane!
> Now all bases are covered


Now that's funny


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Net 30 said:


> Anyone have a chance to cast one of these yet? It got best 6wt in the Yellowstone Angler 6wt shoot out.
> 
> Hard to know if a new company will be around for a while and at $695 - future of warranty is an issue.


George Anderson told me all about the rod about 2 yrs ago and really raved about it. I then shrugged my shoulders and kept on fishing and didn't give it much thought to it until this past 2017 iCast when I stopped in their booth and gave it a wiggled (well actually waved it around (people look at me strange like when I do that. Ha!)). Both the 8 & 6wts. So it took them straight away to the casting pond and it was over.... done.... stick a fork in me, done!

That's all I gots ta say about that right now. I'll let you know more about it when I'm fishing it.

Btw, they have a fast little butter stick that will make you giggle when you cast it, called an "Upstream." Basically a glass/ bamboo feeling carbon rod that suddenly became lighter and faster. I think it's going to be my next pond/bluegill rod.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jmrodandgun said:


> Loomis rods are built in Washington. They pay payroll taxes, all costs associated with full time employees, and are bound by US labor laws. Most importantly they pay a 10% excise tax to fund fisheries management on the first sale of their rods. Douglas does not pay the same in taxes. They are not an equal comparison.
> 
> There is a fundamental flaw in your argument. The reason companies like Douglas have rods manufactured overseas is to keep the manufacturing cost down and save money on excise taxes that are collected on fishing rods and reels. Those taxes are how we fund our fisheries. If you want federal money to clean up the glades, where do you think it comes from? Without that money the North American Model of Conservation does not exist. If you think they are building rods in Korea to save you money, you are sadly mistaken. Rods are being built in Korea to save Douglas money.
> 
> Let's put it this way... If you have cash laying around to spend. $600 on a fishy pole, where it comes from and why it's priced so high are two things that should matter.


There are still import duties and tariffs that have to pay to bring in product in to the U.S.. Then they still have to pay excise tax, since it's a new product (according to what I've heard, but will get more info on that later). They still pay employee taxes and retail taxes are earned by the dealers. They are still a US based company with all the employees necessary to run a business, they just don't have the employees that builds the rods. Then profits are spent and invested back here in the States. TFO does the same thing.

Again, in the case of Loomis, all the profits made here from people like us are then funneled out of this country and over to Japan to be spent over there. How is that any better for our economy?

The same company that owns Sage also ownes Redington. Sage rods are built here, but their sister company's rods are built in Korea. Both profits funnel back into the same pool. Just food for thought.

sjrobin, just curious, where are the Cross Currents made? I'm assuming over here as well?


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## lsunoe (Dec 5, 2016)

Backwater said:


> George Anderson told me all about the rod about 2 yrs ago and really raved about it. I then shrugged my shoulders and kept on fishing and didn't give it much thought to it until this past 2017 iCast when I stopped in their booth and gave it a wiggled (well actually waved it around (people look at me strange like when I do that. Ha!)). Both the 8 & 6wts. So it took them straight away to the casting pond and it was over.... done.... stick a fork in me, done!
> 
> That's all I gots ta say about that right now. I'll let you know more about it when I'm fishing it.
> 
> Btw, they have a fast little butter stick that will make you giggle when you cast it, called an "Upstream." Basically a glass/ bamboo feeling carbon rod that suddenly became lighter and faster. I think it's going to be my next pond/bluegill rod.


Have you thrown a Sage One 6wt? Which do you prefer and why?


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Backwater said:


> Again, in the case of Loomis, all the profits made here from people like us are then funneled out of this country and over to Japan to be spent over there. How is that any better for our economy?


I think we are talking about two different issues here. If it's worth noting that Douglas rods are made in Korea, it's worth noting why that is important. The excise taxes I am talking about are in no way related to what a company does with it's final profits. Nor are the final profits in any way related to the taxes paid on the IRS form 720. That exicise tax is how we fund our fisheries management in the United States. By moving production overseas they are simply NOT paying into the pool as much as the companies who are manufacturing and selling products domestically. 

The North American Model of Conservation depends on these taxes. Without them, you lose federal funding for fisheries and wildlife management. Like it or not, it's important to future hunters and anglers that we do our best to pay into the system. Trying to save a few bucks by buying Asian rods only saves the buyer money. It's very short sighted.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

jmrodandgun said:


> I think we are talking about two different issues here. If it's worth noting that Douglas rods are made in Korea, it's worth noting why that is important. The excise taxes I am talking about are in no way related to what a company does with it's final profits. Nor are the final profits in any way related to the taxes paid on the IRS form 720. That exicise tax is how we fund our fisheries management in the United States. By moving production overseas they are simply NOT paying into the pool as much as the companies who are manufacturing and selling products domestically.
> 
> The North American Model of Conservation depends on these taxes. Without them, you lose federal funding for fisheries and wildlife management. Like it or not, it's important to future hunters and anglers that we do our best to pay into the system. Trying to save a few bucks by buying Asian rods only saves the buyer money. It's very short sighted.


And how is buying from an asian country any different than companies like Hardy and T&T?

What about Ford, who has most of it's truck built in Mexico?

And how is excise taxes from rod companies any different than from tire companies? Excise takes come from new products of many kinds, but not all of them. How did you determine that sales of fly rod mfg'd here in the US has an excise tax. And have you seen just how much of excise taxes goes into natural resources? Just a sliver of the whole pie.








If I wanted to contribute directly to Natural Resources, I'd do it thru IFFF or Ducks Unlimited or my local State's parks and recreation contributions, rather than hoping that a sliver or the 3% of the 10% of the excise taxes I have spent on a $900 fly rod makes it to my local State's Parks. Besides, any fuel I buy for my vehicles and tires I put on them go into that fund regardless.

That being said, I might buy a Sage, Winston or Loomis because I really love the rod, not because I want to fund the National parks. But if I like that rod or reel, then great! But if I find a better "value" (quality vs price) in a rod that suits me better within my budget, then I have no guilt doing so. So yes, I look within my home turf to find something I'm looking for. But If I'm not so hot on it and find I like something elsewhere better, then I might go in that direction for that particular thing. In other words.... I buy "Made in U.S.A." because I want to, but I'm certainly not going to be guilted into doing so, especially If I find something I like better (value). Hey, I have a Samsung cell phone (current model but not their top of the line) that I paid $100 for recently and works perfectly for me and you couldn't give me an iPhone. But then again, that's me and my MO and you can do you. That's all I'm saying.

Again, I'm not down with China selling direct into the US and therefore by-passing everything and everyone to do so. I think there needs to be some regulation regarding that.

Yes.... ~raises my hand~ I'm guilty of the OP derailment. Sorry guys, I'll get off the band wagon at this stop.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I get your point, but the money collected by acts like Dingell Johnson and Pittman Robertson can not be spent on anything else. I'm not going to dig into it right now but one of them mandates that federal money given to a state via one of those acts has to be spent on Wildlife within a specific period of time or else the money is taken back and given to federal waterfowl management.



Backwater said:


> How did you determine that sales of fly rod mfg'd here in the US has an excise tax.


Just one example. Yes importers do contribute, however they simply contribute less than people who build their gear in the US. This was never intended to be a debate. There isn't really anything to debate. It's just one of those things people who recreate need to be aware of and have the information to make an informed decision. 



> *Sport Fish Restoration Act*
> The Sport Fish Restoration Act, commonly referred to as the Dingell-Johnson (DJ) Act, was sponsored by Senator Edwin Johnson of Colorado and Representative John Dingell, Sr. of Michigan and passed on August 9, 1950. The SFR Act was modeled after the Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act to provide grant funds to states, the District of Columbia and insular areas.
> 
> Revenues
> Revenues from manufacturers’ excise taxes on sport fishing equipment, import duties on fishing tackle, yachts and pleasure craft and a portion of the gasoline fuel tax attributable to small engines and motorboats are deposited or transferred into the Sport Fish Restoration and Boating Trust Fund (SFRBT) along with interest credited to the Fund.





Backwater said:


> Ducks Unlimited


BOO this man! ( this is intended to be a joke)


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