# Clutch Theory Questions...



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Man I was not aware of one pice fly rods. I think they would cast great but how do I transport them in something other than a boat


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## SkinnyNaCIH2O (Feb 3, 2014)

Non-guides beware, Ponzi Scheme in progress! Clutch will happily take money from normal customers in effort to supply rods at low cost to guides as part of a philosophy to have the guides tout Clutch.  Unless you have 4 - 5 months to take possession of rod after (PAYING) and listen to countless reasons for not shipping, do not buy from this guy.  I was all for supporting a new American manufacture building a brand from scratch and was completely taken advantage of more than once before recognizing the dubious nature of the founder.


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## Hunt and Fish SRQ (Feb 10, 2014)

Rednek -- I assume you ordered a rod from Clutch directly and have not yet received it? Whats the story as claimed by Clutch/ your side? Everything I have heard about Lee is that he's running a pretty cool company. I am cautious buying a rod (high end) from a new company, but am willing to try it. So do tell.....


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## Hunt and Fish SRQ (Feb 10, 2014)

Permit -- One piece fly rods are great for people who aren't worried about traveling with them... They aren't all that hard to travel with even without a skiff, just takes some getting used to. For me, I think the trade offs are worth it in terms of how the rods tend to throw vs 4 piece rods... For a guy who leaves his rods rigged and gets frustrated when ferrules move (which will happen no matter what) I'm all about 1 pieces


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## Jal78 (Feb 3, 2014)

Just my $.02, but I would be very wary of spending that kind of money on a fly rod from a new company. This isn't the boo boys leaving Winston and setting up a premium operation across the street selling high end rods, this is a complete new comer trying to command a premium price. The ONLY thing that makes a fly rod worth that much money is the warranty and the company behind it. That [email protected]%$ warranty is how we got into paying $800 for rods in the first place. Odds are Clutch will never make it, not because of anything specific, but just by the general nature of the beast and then that rod isn't worth much of anything. (All hearsay, but I have heard they are very prone to breakage) Lastly, and with a grain of salt, they were dead last in the yellowstone angler rod shootout (my favorite rods don't place so well here either)


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## Jal78 (Feb 3, 2014)

FYi, Orvis is coming out with the one-piece helios2 in a few weeks that could be pretty badass. (Of course the mere mention of Orvis can open a whole other bag of worms)


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## Hunt and Fish SRQ (Feb 10, 2014)

Redfish -- I understand, and agree with you... thats why I was asking around.  I'm not gonna discuss my feelings about Orvis rods and open that can of worms... Depending on what happens with the limitations of the one piece rod market, I might have to look at them...  WHY CANT SAGE JUST OFFER ONE PIECES?!


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## SkinnyNaCIH2O (Feb 3, 2014)

Redfish, the breakage issues are for reel. I could have got past that though for a new company "built in USA" if they took care of the issues. Currently own an 8wt and 12 wt TSX models which took weeks to receive. When I was asked to repair the 12 wt myself I became suspicious. As a guy that roots for start up AMERICAN companies I ignored my concerns and ordered a 1 piece from Lee because of recent experience with Hardys 1 piece offering. After ordering a 1 piece Theory and not receiving it for 12 weeks I pulled the plug. Lees response helped me recognize his shady strategy.


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## shiprock8 (Sep 23, 2013)

I have heard from a reliable source that Clutch is moving their whole operation to either Naples or Ft. Myers. This might explain why there is a delay in shipping. I think West Wall Shallow Water Outfitters in Port Charlotte carries them. Give Steve, the owner, a call. They are closed on Mondays.


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## jacack (Jan 3, 2011)

had to chime in, i have two tsx and 8 and 7, three arch 7,9,10 and bought all from lee and got them all the week ordered. used them all a lot and let others use them and no breakage on any of mine and have yet to see one broken ( not saying they wont break but i know a lot of guys fishing them and nobody i know has broken one) every interaction i have had with lee or clutch has been first class all the way and i am no guide. his rods may not be for everyone but they work well for me.


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## jacack (Jan 3, 2011)

> Just my $.02, but I would be very wary of spending that kind of money on a fly rod from a new company.   This isn't the boo boys leaving Winston and setting up a premium operation across the street selling high end rods, this is a complete new comer trying to command a premium price.  The ONLY thing that makes a fly rod worth that much money is the warranty and the company behind it. That [email protected]%$ warranty is how we got into paying $800 for rods in the first place. Odds are Clutch will never make it, not because of anything specific, but just by the general nature of the beast and then that rod isn't worth much of anything.  (All hearsay, but I have heard they are very prone to breakage)  Lastly, and with a grain of salt, they were dead last in the yellowstone angler rod shootout  (my favorite rods don't place so well here either)



where is this shootout? i thought i read it but dont remember seeing clutch even tested? realize lee worked for sage before going out on his own right so its not like he is completely new to fly rods.


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## jacack (Jan 3, 2011)

never mind , i found the shoot out, that was a freshwater 5 wt, maybe is sucks, never cast one.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

Give Rob Gilbert a shout; Flats Titan on this forum, for Clutch questions.


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## reelaggressive (Feb 7, 2013)

What weight rod would you like to try? I would be happy to meet you and let you demo whatever you like. 
As for the accusations about Clutch if the guy would treat his rods properly he would not have any issues. We warrantied his broken rods once but being a habitual offender we cut him off. 

I am here in town and would happy to work with you directly.


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## roel02 (Sep 24, 2013)

Clutch and Lee are certainly a 1st class operation.  I own a 7wt tsx and just ordered an 8wt Theory.
First off, I broke my 7wt going into my garage to put the rod back into the boat after rigging.  As luck would have it, the door shut itself on the rod.  I sent in my rod to Lee and had it back within 2 weeks.  Pretty fast for a smaller company IMHO.  As for the 8wt, I ordered it on Thursday 12/11 and it shipped today 12/15.  Again, pretty darn quick if you ask me...  

I am Not a guide and can say with confidence Lee is Passionate about Flyfishing / building Rods / customer satisfaction.  As far as I know, Clutch is NOT a Sage / G Loomis / TFO sized company with hundreds of employees.  This is a small company passionate about the sport and make amazing rods.  He is certainly growing, and possibly quicker than he imagined, but you can't fault the guy or his company for that.  So far, my experience has been nothing but Positive!  Lastly, I recently saw a post on Facebook by Lee Janik (owner) and I think it sums up this thread, here you Go:

"The fact of the matter, is that I am extremely humbled to be surrounded and supported by so many amazing people in this sport! Here is another photo provided by Steve Hall... It IS more than a hobby, and we ARE more than just another fly rod company... So thank you to those of you that truly "get it" and support us... Because I would rather be David than Goliath any day!"


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## bugslinger (Jun 4, 2012)

I am a guide and I BUY my own rods. I have chosen rods from Clutch for various reasons- first and foremost, they F&€¥ing perform! Secondly- they are 100% start to finish manufactured and assembled in the USA. As previous posters have mentioned, Clutch is not Sage or Orvis with hundreds of employees. I can almost guarantee that if you buy a Clutch rod off the shelf or order one direct, it has passed through Lee's hands. 
I have had nothing but good experiences in every dealing I have ever had with Lee and the Clutch organization. I currently own the TSX SERIES in 6-7-8-9-10, the Archipelago Series in 8 and 10, and a Theory 1-piece 9. I am awaiting a custom rod from Lee that I am excited about. 
As for quality and durability- rods break. It happens. I've not had a single issue with breakage or warranty work. In fact, my Arch 8wt broke, and I had it back up and running in less than 1 week! Try that with Sage! 
If any of you are interested I fish the Tampa area, and I am more than willing to let you try any of the Clutch series that I own.


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## Jal78 (Feb 3, 2014)

Reel, is the warranty a one time deal similar to the new Gloomis warranty? As I stated earlier, that stupid warranty is why we pay so much for rods in the first place, but if you are going to advertise and promote such then you better back it or people are going to get real bitter. I have broken a few rods in my day, some have definitely been my fault and a few... well I have no idea what happened. And truthfully if I paid 700$ for a rod and they said "the fine print...." that would be the last one I paid 700+$ for, at least from them. FWIW, I broke the same Scott Rod twice in pretty much the same spot and the second time they sent me a different model that has seen it's fair share of abuse with no issues. Point is that they won a customer for life with that gesture. 

Now, I would love to see a company come in and upset the old guard that has the rod market on lock, very similar to the way hatch has done with reels. 

SRQ, completely forgot about the echo one piece rod. The prime. Only have second hand knowledge from a die hard musky guy, but word is they are legit. Again, probably going to have a hard time finding one to play with. Anybody have experience with this rod?


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## Rhenn (Nov 16, 2012)

Very interesting thread. I have not had the opportunity to either cast or look at the Clutch Company rods, I would like to be able to cast one if the opportunity were to present itself, but I would not pay the money they are asking for the without being able to see and cast one. 
Not saying that they aren't worth it, just would really look closely at them prior to spending the kind of money they are getting for them. Very nice looking rods on the website, and I wish them well. Glad to see a US company trying to make a go of it.
I was wondering if they made any rods at a lower price? May help get the brand established..


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## Hunt and Fish SRQ (Feb 10, 2014)

I just figured I'd let everyone know my experience thus far with Clutch... I sent an email to their customer service around the same time when I posted this. Last night (yes, Sunday, a weekend), Lee personally emailed me and gave me his cell phone number so we could talk about any questions I had. While I still need to cast the rods, I have to say that I am very impressed. I feel the same way about boats, rods, anything thats a toy -- I would much rather have a wonderful customer service experience, regardless of price, than simply pay a toned down version of Wally World. If the Clutch doesn't fit my style well, so be it, but if it does, Lee's incredible customer service and forward attitude have me VERY interested...


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## reelaggressive (Feb 7, 2013)

906redfish - When you look at a broken rod it tells you a story. Its plain as day when if you know what your looking at. If the rod was crushed by abuse we can tell, because it does not look the same as a rod blowing up from a fish. 

That being said Clutch has a Limited Lifetime Warranty. Up until this point it has been $65 (I think its going up to $90 in 2015) and if its a legitimate break we take care of it. There have been times we are "loose" where some rods should not be warrantied do get replaced but but that's the liberty we take as a company. We truly try to take care of our customers the best we can but we cant go out of business because someone keeps throwing them in the bed of their truck breaking the tips off.

Before I worked for Clutch and before I was on their pro team I purchased rods from Lee because I did not want to be another number in the system. I liked the fact that I can get a hold of the owner of the company if I ever had a concern. We know a lot of the people who own our rods and we like to stay in contact with them seeing what they catch and posting it for our followers to see because we believe they are family.


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## Jal78 (Feb 3, 2014)

Reel, I get it, I truly do. The problem becomes the gray area as to what constitutes a legitimate break. This is where the business part shifts to art. I mean, realistically is it even possible to break one of these new rods legitimately? A rod that has zero defects and the angler did nothing wrong. Sure there will be rods that make it out the door that shouldn't have, but aside from obvious manufacturing errors or bad batches, how can you tell if something was dinged during production. More often than not, I hear the rod was most likely damaged by being dinged with lead eyes or something similar impacting the blank at some point as being the reason for breakage. Is that legit? I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything, just want to try and understand where the line is drawn.


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## EclecticRednek (Sep 8, 2011)

No one was a bigger supporter of Clutch than myself when they first started. 

In fact, please contact Lee and make sure you know who "this guy" is and have your facts straight regarding the right customer. I am sure they can't be as I only had one rod replaced by Clutch. That 8wt rod did break after riding in the back of my truck for a mile and admittedly may have been my fault. I will say many other rods have made that 1 mile trip without breaking dozens of times. 12wt broke after casting a few times in the back yard at the tip, I was asked to repair this one myself and told not under warranty? My comments/issues are well documented and facts are facts. 

Another fact, I paid for a 1 piece 11wt Theory on August 11th. Rod never shipped, I asked for a 700.00 refund November 11th. No refund yet. 

Honestly hope that my experience is an oddity and Clutch is in fact all that they claim to be for the majority and successfully disrupt the high end rod market. 

Good Luck...




> What weight rod would you like to try? I would be happy to meet you and let you demo whatever you like.
> As for the accusations about Clutch if the guy would treat his rods properly he would not have any issues. We warrantied his broken rods once but being a habitual offender we cut him off.
> 
> I am here in town and would happy to work with you directly.


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## fishicaltherapist (Mar 9, 2013)

I have fished for nearly 60 years and have been in business, dealing with every type of person imaginable, for 45 years. I have not written any best selling books but, I can tell what kind of a person someone is after one meeting. I can assure anyone out there, doubts or not; Lee and Rob (Reel Aggressive) are two upstanding and outstanding people. They both, are men of their word and back up their talk with action and honesty. I am a novice fluff chucker but, when I'm ready to step up, it WILL be a Clutch because; of the QUALITY of the people and the product. I am NOT a guide or rep and have ABSOLUTELY NO ties to Clutch in any shape,manner, or form.


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## reelaggressive (Feb 7, 2013)

The Theory series were debuted at iCast and the only rods in circulation so far are the first run of rods. (15 total)

Hamster- You along with many others ordered Theory's with the full understanding that the rods are back ordered. We were promised that we would have the blanks in August to finish and fish HOWEVER we just received the blanks last week due to manufacturing problems beyond our control. We could have opted to receive blanks that were not 100% to fill the market but that's not how we do business. We believe waiting for the right product is the only way. If we make customers mad by wait time that's ok because the product they receive will be nothing short of 100%. We hope to have the Theory's out of production and ready to ship next week. 

As for your request of refund- Please email me your info and let me know how you requested your refund originally and I will make sure this gap in communication does not happen again. We don't want your money if you don't want our rods.


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## Jal78 (Feb 3, 2014)

Reel, do you guys roll your own blanks in house?


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## richwalker71 (Feb 11, 2010)

I had the pleasure of meeting and fishing with Lee a few months ago. As good a fellow as I've ever met. We spoke at length about rods, fishing, mutual acquaintances and life in general. We are now friends. i haven't made a purchase yet but he builds damn nice rods. He is no scammer. Period.


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## reelaggressive (Feb 7, 2013)

> Reel, do you guys roll your own blanks in house?


Depends on the rod. Currently we are not building the blanks for the Theory's in house but they are built according to our recipe and our specs. We are in the middle of major growing pains and we had to put our eggs in multiple baskets to try and keep up with demand. Only so much we can do ourselves. They are being built local to the shop so we can monitor the process and all blanks are tested, inspected, and finished in house.


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## Jal78 (Feb 3, 2014)

I had heard different reports when I first heard of clutch but nothing definitive. That's quite a feat to tackle the production from scratch, way to go though.


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## reelaggressive (Feb 7, 2013)

> I had heard different reports  when I first heard of clutch but nothing definitive.  That's quite a feat to tackle the production from scratch, way to go though.


Chasing dreams is a uphill battle and processes will change to accommodate growth. Quality over quantity but we can't be stagnant or people will loose interest.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I'll just stick with my Sage 2 pice rods thank you


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

SRQ - You might try a 3 piece rod.  That is the best harmonics of a rod I've found over 25 years.  The 3 ferals will dampen the vibration of a rod better than any multi piece rod I've found.  Hard to find these days tho.  How are you putting the rod pieces together?  If you do it right, you will have no slippage.  Twist locking them together is the best way to keep them from slipping apart.  If they continue to fall apart, then there is something wrong with the ferals or you have sand, salt or something else in them.

Yes the Shootout was only 5 rods featured and I think I remembered the 5wt Xi3 took it.  Only the top 5 mgfs were invited.  Doesn't mean there were not other rod companies that made decent rods.  But anyways, you knuckleheads need a 5 wt here in the salt in SW FL like another hole in the head.   ;D

Look, I own a 8wt rod that retailed for $700 that is lighter and faster than anything I've ever thrown (and trust me I've thrown about everything over 25yrs).  Never paid that much for it tho and I don't think there is a rod out there that should be sold for that.  That being said, there are plenty of decent rods that will get er done and put a big fat smile on your face doing it.  Being super fast and light isn't always the answer to a beautiful cast that puts chills down your spine while doing it, but wouldn't break the bank either.  And 1 piece rods are not always the answer either.  Also, like I mentioned in the 10wt post, not all rods in a certain line act and behave the same.  You can be all hot on a rod cause the 7wt feels like butter in your hand.  But go pick up the same same rod in a 10wt and you will hate it.

One day years ago I imagined I would find the perfect rod and then replace all the rods in my quiver so they would all look and feel the same.  So I started doing that. (they were $500 rods).  After the 4th rod, I stopped.  I realized that they all started having characterization differences, especially since not all of them used the same fly lines and same type of flies, etc....  I also noticed that the same goes for other rod lines.  So what's the point??  After many years of trail and error, yadda yadda...  my arsenal is a mix bag of tricks.  Same goes for the reels and the fly lines.

All that being said, I've thrown the Clutch 8wt and I must say it felt a bit like a broom stick (No offense Capt Rob, I really like you and think you are a super cool dude (and guide)).

So guys, go visit multiple fly shops, throw their rods, bug your buddies, throw their rods, go to the fly clubs when they have casting or outings, throw their rods...  You get it?  That's all a part of the fun.  So make it fun and quit your belly acking!   

I've seen rod companies come and go.  Like Capt Rob, I've even helped a few.     So what, there is nothing wrong with new start up companies trying to get into the game.  Hey, they were all start up companies at one time.  Some changed hands multiple times and moved around many times.

Here's something that will get your goat.  I threw a Chinese rod that was simply supreme and it was only $100 and their machined bar stock aluminum reel looked very close to a Hydros for around $60.  Makes you wonder.   :


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## Hunt and Fish SRQ (Feb 10, 2014)

Backwater, I appreciate your advice... I personally have not had a ferrule failure, but talk with anyone who spends enough time on the water and they've seen a few. I agree with finding rods that work best for you, and thats why I'm expanding my horizons. I currently throw one piece hardys and Xi3s mostly, but have a few st croix and other sages. For me, sticking with one piece rods gives me a feeling of confidence and security ( I Know its probably in my head ), much like some people prefer revolvers because the "won't jam" (and that, my friends is a whole other discussion that we don't need to get into). I will surely try one of these rods before I decide whether or not I will purchase one, and that was really one of the main reasons for starting this thread, but its become very interesting to see everyones take on the subject. 

PS Its been a great procrastination tool to get me through my last finals week of my collegiate career... One more in less than 8 hours and I'm Florida bound! wooohooo!


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## Rhenn (Nov 16, 2012)

Very good point on using different lines on your fly rods. I have had issues with certain lines casting great on one rod and not worth a hoot on an another. I put an Air Flo bass taper on a Scott and it is a super casting outfit. But when I put the same line on a Winston, it was terrible. 
And as was said before, go try other rods that you are interested in, that is half the fun!


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## tomahawk (Mar 9, 2012)

> Here's something that will get your goat.  I threw a Chinese rod that was simply supreme and it was only $100 and their machined bar stock aluminum reel looked very close to a Hydros for around $60.  Makes you wonder.   :


So cough up the info. I've been wanting to give it a shot but don't want to spend a bunch of money until I see if I have the patience to learn it.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

SQR, the ONLY time I've had ferral problems..... (remember that is out of a ridiculous number of days on the water with who knows how many different rods (I guided for some years as well)) was because there was grit in the ferals that needed to be cleaned out (run of the mill boat rods that weren't well taken care of) and that happened 2 times. The other time it was a rod (Loomis GL3) that had something wrong with the ferral. Oh yea there was one time I had rods layed out in pieces (2 were same type) and I grabbed the the tip of the 9wt rod and was trying to use it on my 8wt. All that over 25yrs.

I've only thrown 1 - one piece rod. The Loomis Cross Current. Nice but not impressed, especially what you give up for stowing or travel. I've thrown many other multi piece rods that had a better flow to it. Just sayin....

Hey guys, there are a lot of companies that don't ask how a rod broke. Believe it or not, Redington had and still has the best policy of that. Still others are very good as well. So no matter what, be careful with the long rod (especially to the 1 piece guys) and be an upstanding person. If your kid slammed it in the car door, develop a conscious. If you are fighting a fish and you are not high sticking the rod, grabbing it above the handle tapping it on the railing of your boat, allowing clousers to wack it on your back cast, setting in on your gunnwell as the fish submarines under your boat, etc, etc... (shall I continue?) Then send it back and be polite about it and usually they will take care of it. Then tell a buddy on how they took care of you. That's how customer service and word of mouth helps business like that grow and earn people's business.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Acesover, very true.  Oh btw, Winston is another example of a good fly rod mfg that changed hands many times and they still are a good company.  Redington did as well and still doing good.

SRQ, sounds like you have a nice line up.  Xi3, Hardy...  Not a big fan of St Croix fly rods tho.  Find a novice who needs a good starter rod and sell it to them.  Take a road trip to the next few fly shows and throw a bunch of rods, have fun, then go to the Shops and see what's hot, throw them and be true to you, not what people perceive of you.  Just because you don't own a Hellsbay or a Yeti, doesn't mean you can't "bring it!"  Same goes with your fly gear.

Pay attention to this tho, just because you run out and let the gead head in you get the best of you in the spur of the moment.  Settle back down and realize that there are some sleepers out there (rods that is...) that will knock your socks off if you take the time and find them.  Like I said, add the right flyline to it and you will be sure to get more nods from your buddies and fly fishermen in the know than all those gear heads that fly by the seat of their pants.  I'm still looking for an old Sage 7wt RPLX (not the i) and a Albright EXS 10wt. :  

It's like stepping in the duck boat with your buddies with all their high dollar pea shooters...   and you sporting that old Browning A5 12 gauge and seeing the nods and watching their faces as the birds fall while they can't hit the broad side of a barn.


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## reelaggressive (Feb 7, 2013)

Backwater- what 8wt did you cast of ours and where? You also said the only one piece rod you have cast is a cross current. To me that rod is the worst rod GLoomis ever designed. I like the NRX a lot but that cross current imjust has no feel. Need to get you on some better one piece rods so you have a well rounded judgement about how they feel. Hardy, Orvis, NRX, or ours. All better than what you are judging your "feel" off of.

I am not discrediting anything your saying and I agree with most of what your saying but we need to get you on some better sticks.


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