# Crystal 16 Build.



## TXSkiff

And I have to figure out how to upload the pictures. Hold please.


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## yobata

TXSkiff said:


> And I have to figure out how to upload the pictures. Hold please.


Is this your skiff? I looked through these pics yesterday on the smithmarinedesigns underway page - I thought that this skiff was complete and in Indiana?? The side console looks awesome! If you can fit a 12-13 gallon permanent tank up front that would be my choice, on a 4stroke 25/30hp motor that would last you plenty...


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## TXSkiff

yobata said:


> Is this your skiff? I looked through these pics yesterday on the smithmarinedesigns underway page - I thought that this skiff was complete and in Indiana?? The side console looks awesome! If you can fit a 12-13 gallon permanent tank up front that would be my choice, on a 4stroke 25/30hp motor that would last you plenty...


My skiff isn't started yet. That is the same boat you saw. I ordered the plans. They should be here today. Those pics are pretty good to get an idea of what it's gonna look like. The designer rated the boat for a 40hp motor but I did the calculations with remote steering and come up with 80hp. It's prett fast with that 40 but who doesn't want to go faster. The max weight for the transom and balance is 275 so that won't be a problem. 
I need to list my changes so he can help me balance the boat correctly.


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## TGlidden

I'd lower the free board forward if you plan to pole it much, that'll help minimize the sail area in cross wind poles. 30hp I'd say tiller, otherwise side console, and for shallow water I'd give up speed for weight saving. I wouldn't add a jack plate or tunnel. With the open front compartment I wouldn't mind portable tank/tanks but I'd run a fuel line forward. A permanent fuel cell in the 15 gallon range would be my first choice though. If you get to the Port Aransas area I'd go by Farley Boatworks, they build wooden net skiffs and have some guys that might be able to help you out.


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## lemaymiami

Forget the pocket drive since although they sound like a good idea - getting one right isn't certain at all..... For a first effort a tiller steering setup simplifies a good portion of your rigging (and certainly costs less) - but most prefer a steering station... You haven't said whether you plan to fish with bait or lure.... that decision will dictate whether you'll also be wanting a live well..... I can't see from your finished photos what the chine edges look like - sharp chines make for a dry running skiff - rounded chines do the opposite. Those same characteristics that make for a dry riding hull also will give you some hull slap when poling across the wind -round chines reduce hull slap but increase "wetness" when running across the wind (or in quartering, following seas....). Lots to consider here -my biggest question is will you have access to a finished version for a wet test and some feedback from the skiff's owner? That sort of evaluation will be priceless if it guides you as you get started...

Aren't boats fun?


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## yobata

To my knowledge only one of these boats exists so far and it's in Indiana... Long drive for a wet test


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## TXSkiff

There is only one in existence. It's in Indiana on a lake. Wet test would be opportunistic. 

As for what type of fishing...I have a fly rod problem. Can't make sense of anything But a fly rod after a Bonefish trip to the Bahamas. 

The chines are sharp by design. I could easily round them. I noticed an interesting feature on this Spearworks skiff today. Not sure of the technical name but I'm guessing the piece hanging under the edge of the deck is to catch spray? My gut tells me that my first build won't have the sharpest chines on earth so I may find a spot in the middle. 

I'm about to look up what the freeboard is so I can answer that idea.


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## lemaymiami

If the chines are sharp by design you'll probably want to stick to the design until you've built one or two... Trying to modify an existing design when you're building from scratch might get you in trouble the first time out.... Freeboard is the portion of your hull that's above the water when it's floating properly. Poling a skiff isn't complicated -until you add the wind... Once the wind is up you'll have an easy time poling downwind... not so easy across the wind, particularly with a high profile (sides of the boat particularly toward the bow of the skiff) since the wind will literally push you around and you'll end up fighting to pole in a straight line... Of course the less freeboard the more a hull is affected by water conditions. Everything about hull design is a trade-off (you give up something to gain something else....). If it were me, and it was a first effort I'd pretty much stick to the set of plans you've gotten - much less to go wrong that way. That's also why a road trip and an on the water evaluation of that hull might be a pretty good idea.... The old skiff I work out of (16' 10") has a very similar bow profile to the plans you've got... It should ride comfortably (a good bit better than many small microskiffs), be pretty dry riding, but a bit noisy when poling (however a noisy hull is still dead silent when you're poling with the wind... 

By the way the picture you posted shows a skiff (the gray and white one with Tohatsu motor...) with very little freeboard... Looks perfect for poling shallow waters but it might not be much fun if you had to cross a big bay with two to three feet of chop (and worse weather as the day goes on....). My old Maverick eats up rough water when guys with perfect little technical skiffs are hiding somewhere.... Like I said -everything's a trade off...


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## jonrconner

All I can say is that for a first build, this is very ambitious, I'd recommend starting off with a simple plywood stitch and glue for some baseline boatbuilding knowledge before diving into a project of this magnitude. Most my .02
JC


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## tomahawk

I would recommend building it to the plans for your first build or get help from the designer for any mods.


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## WhiteDog70810

1. Should I add a pocket drive?

Skip it unless the designer has done all the homework. Pocket drives and tunnels make the build much more complex if you try to figure it out on your own. 

2. Center console or side console or tiller?

I vote for tiller on that size of boat because it is so much simpler to build. I also feel consoles take up too much space in the cockpit, but remote steer is much more comfortable for long runs. If you need remote steering, I'd definitely go with a side console.

3. Plans call for portable fuel tank, should I install a permanent one?

I prefer portable tanks if I have space to get them in and out easily. This is because I seem to leave my boat in the water out in the boonies for long periods and have to haul my tanks to town to refuel. A portable tank is also much easier to plumb in, because you only need to run a fuel line to it. However, if you have to shoehorn them in so tight that they are a pain to get out, a permanent tank is a better option.

I love strip built hulls. The material forces the hull to have beautiful lines and that is a beautiful hull, but don't expect to make a museum piece for your first build. Just plan on making a really pretty workboat. Starting at the half-way point, you will just want to get it floating and go fishing. Impatience leads to frustration when confronted with a slow problem and frustration leads to burnout. Many boat builds languish for years as half-finished projects. Due to this, keep it stoopid simple to minimize frustration. Lastly, have fun. I loved having my project waiting for me even when I was frustrated with the miserable tub.

BTW, that is a beautiful pic of a tailing red.

Nate


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## RunningOnEmpty

The Flats Stalker 18 shows how to do the chines either way in the plans. If that was my project I would go with a tiller motor and portable gas tank to keep it simple. That's a very nice hull!


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## TXSkiff

Thanks to all of you. 
I appreciate all your input. I think I'm gonna go tiller and portable tank to simplify things. I'll stick to the plans for the first build. I think it's a definite challenge for my first build but that's how I roll...usually. Some might say my decision quality is lacking but it is what it is. I would be worried except the other guy pretty much did a daily photo diary on how to build the boat. I'm pretty good at following directions (unless you ask my wife). 
I learned my first lesson a few days ago...when you cut cedar strips...wear a mask...or you will wake up feeling like you smoked 237 packs of Marlboro Reds and drank a fifth of Jim Beam. 
I'll try to keep pictures coming so you can tell me when I've f'd things up or done something really awesome by mistake.


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## WhiteDog70810

Don't be too nervous about strip building. It is challenging, but satisfying from what I've read. The technique is actually somewhat self-trueing when you use bead and cove strips. I want to try it, but I might have to wait for retirement. That is still many years down the line.

I saw some encouragement above to lower the sheer. I wouldn't suggest messing with the sheer in a hull with a bunch of compound curves like up in the bow flare. If you muck with those curves, you'll never get them fair again and it will haunt you forever. I know you said you were going to stick with the plans, but I like to double tap "good" ideas just in case. 

Have fun!

Nate


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## TXSkiff

The plans say approximately 10 gallons of epoxy? That sounds like a lot. Have any of you tried any of the Epoxies from eBay?


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## jonrconner

I haven't tried any epoxy from eBay, but I don't think you'll find it for less than bateau.com Marine epoxy, a six gallon kit is $315. Their glass is also very reasonably priced.
JC


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## WhiteDog70810

I used MarinEpoxy from Bateau.com. It was the best price I found if you can only afford to buy 3 gallons at a time. I never had any amine blush, even with the fast hardener. Lots of guys like Raka, but I've never used it. Also check out Jamestown Distributors for options, but I can't vouch for their prices. I used West System for one small project. It was expensive and blushed horribly, so I can't recommend it.

Nate


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## tomahawk

Yep, marinepoxy, which Bateau gets from Raka. I have had the medium hardener blush though, never the slow.


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## TXSkiff

Got quite a bit done today. Starting to look like I'm building a boat in the garage now. More to come after I shore up a few discrepancies.
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## jonrconner

Looks good!
JC


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## TXSkiff

A few more pics. Making a little progress. Gotta build the transom next week. 

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## TXSkiff

Finished 2 huge bottles of glue. Starting to come together. pretty excited about the way the chines came out, but I thought I read somewhere that rounded edges are better for glassing then fairing creates the sharp edges? Thoughts?

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## tomahawk

Correct, you can sharpen the chine edges with a mixture of wood flour, milled glass fibers and some silica not fairing compound though.


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## tomahawk

I built a dam out of cardboard covered in packing tape, filled the gap with the mixture then sharpened it up.


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## TXSkiff

I made a little progress...actually had to work a little this week.
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SO this thing is supposed to weigh in at about 450 when its finished, its 15'10" long, and has a 20" transom. 66" beam. The designer said it was rated for a 25-30 HP motor. I did the calculations myself and come up with 85 HP if its remote steer. I know we discussed this a little before but what motor would you put on this boat? I don't want to overpower it but I also like to go fast. I thought a 40 HP might be just what the doctor ordered. My weight limit for the motor is 275 lbs.


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## makin moves

How fast do you want to go?


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## jfboothe

TXSkiff - I guess I am still the only one with a Crystal 16. My boat is still going great and has seen a lot of time on the water here in the Midwest and in NC at Ocracoke, Morehead/Beaufort and Topsail areas. The design does work very well as is. Timm did a very good job in that regard. I agree with you the CG computations would allow a higher HP but I am not sure I could see the point. I have thought of going to a 50HP just to get a little more top end but I really enjoy that it just sips gas (6 gallons a couple of days continually fishing). I am getting approximately 25-27 mph flat out and she cruises along at 18-20.

Concerning a side console verse a tiller. I really don't know. I did the console because the engine I found had remote steering and I do like it. I would however like to be able to stand up both to see better and take chop on my feet rather than sitting. A really narrow center console so that you could still get around would be ideal but then you would lose all that room to walk around and fish. It's really just a personal preference.

I would hesitate to put a larger permanent fuel tank in the boat. If you are going with a higher HP engine I could see the point but with a 25-30HP motor, you really don't need it. I have installed a Minnkota Riptide on the front and now have a large deep cycle and the starting battery in the front and the boat is pretty well balanced. It is a small boat so when you put extra weight anywhere in the boat it affects it.

For the sharp chines, I thickened some epoxy and used a I used a drywall corner trowel. They worked out great even though I have been pretty hard on the boat (no chips). I built it to use it not as art work. Though I still get a lot of comments and strike up a lot of conversations at the boat ramp!  Even at stoplights I get people rolling down their windows to tell me they like the boat.

If you or anyone else has any questions, don't hesitate to sending me a message. It has really turned into a great little boat and Timm Smith did a great job with the design. I have had it through all the marshes and skinny water in NC and even out the Barden inlet in the ocean one day when it was completely flat to troll for some spanish.


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## TXSkiff

How skinny will it float and take off?

Are you sure you don't wish you had a 50 on it?


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## LWalker

Here are couple links to posts in my build thread where I built up my corners. I used wood with packing tape on it uot glued to the boat and it worked very well.

Welcome to the Smith family!

Build Thread: Osprey 18 Flats Skiff

Build Thread: Osprey 18 Flats Skiff


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## TXSkiff

Thanks Luke. I feel like i should just close up my build thread, or you could move to Texas and help. Your boat looks really sharp. 
I just learned about 400 things i have no idea how to do. And I feel the need to go glue more strips.


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## TXSkiff

Things are coming together. I feel a ton of sanding coming soon. Should I use wood filler or thickened epoxy to fill in the gaps? I was leaning toward wood filler since it will be painted.

Anytide, can you move this to the proper spot? I was new when I started it and i now know its in the wrong spot. 

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## yobata

I would personally lean towards thickened epoxy (thickened with woodflour), you are going to glass the outside and inside anyway and I would think that it provides more structural strength than wood filler (which is essentially glue thickened with woodflour)... Just my $0.02


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## WhiteDog70810

Whatever fills those gaps links the core to the glass. If it breaks down, the integrity of composite is weakened. You want something that does not crumble under shear forces like wood filler. Utter its name no more.

Since you are not bright finishing the hull, I'd gently sand the hull with 100 grit on a RO sander to knock down the edges of the strips and then use a light coat of a homemade fairing mix of micro-balloons and just enough silica to thicken it (I don't like wood flour in fairing compounds because it makes the fairing mix drag IMO) to get the hull reasonably smooth (but not fair; that comes later) prior to sheathing. This will greatly help with air bubbles while saturating the FG cloth when you sheath it. Once the hull is sheathed, use homemade fairing compound until the surface is roughly fair. When the big defects are somewhat level and you are ready for your final fairing coats prior to paint, switch to a product like Quick Fair for best results. I was never able to make a homemade mix that was a nice as Quick Fair. It spreads like frosting and is easy to work with, but it is pricey, so I couldn't justify using it to fill the big holes during the initial rough fairing.

If you use Quick Fair, don't skimp on the mixing. I rushed my process once because I was trying to make a big enough batch to cover both sides of the hull instead of multiple little batches. I thought I mixed it well, but I apparently only achieved a "fudge swirl" effect and it failed to kick. I got to scrape all of it off the hull and then clean both sides of the hull with acetone and steel wool. It was a character building experience.

Nate


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## Boatdesigner

I would recommend using an epoxy filler as well. You really shouldn't have too many gaps if you glued the strips with Titebond III as it doesn't have the gap filling properties of epoxy. By using epoxy now to fill those gaps, that will help make sure the strips are well glued together. I would do the same to the inside once you flip it over. I can't recommend a specific compound as frankly, I am a designer not a builder! Someone with more "hands on" experience would have better insight as to how each method works and sands. The Gougeon Bros book may also have some good recommendations for mixing an epoxy filler/fairing compound.

As for fairing, I think you should get the wood as fair as possible before glassing. The reason being I don't want you to cut into the glass too much when you are fairing. Remember, the glass on these is structural, not just cosmetic as on the Osprey 18 builds. There is only one layer of it, so if you cut through trying to work out a high spot, then you've got a real problem. I would rather the wood be cut down a bit in that high spot than the glass as it is under less stress in the "laminate".

You're making good progress! I keep trying to explain to people how easy these are to plank once you get the hang of it. If you've ever built a stripper canoe or kayak, this would be a piece of cake I'd think as it has a lot less shape. Take your time and you'll figure out all those things you don't think you know. When in doubt, feel free to ask me or put the question up here. I bet there are a lot of people like WhiteDog with tons of experience who can give you advice.


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## LWalker

Are you butt joining the strips? I have never built a strip boat, but I would think those joints would need to be scarfed? Maybe not???

On the filler, I agree with what Nate said. You should try to match the density of the wood to avoid print thru in the future. I usually use 75% microballons and 25% silica. Woodflour would likely work as well, but I have never used it.


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## jfboothe

LWalker said:


> Are you butt joining the strips? I have never built a strip boat, but I would think those joints would need to be scarfed? Maybe not???
> 
> On the filler, I agree with what Nate said. You should try to match the density of the wood to avoid print thru in the future. I usually use 75% microballons and 25% silica. Woodflour would likely work as well, but I have never used it.


Get it stripped. Sand the strips as fair as you can. Sanding the lightweight cedar is really easy compared to sanding epoxy!. Fill any gaps you have. I used lightweight fairing compound. If you use thickened epoxy at this stage to fill the gaps and you have to sand any more, you will sand right through the wood and the epoxy will still be there. The 1208 Double Bias Fiberglass cloth you will be using is pretty heavy weight and there wasn't any print though that I noticed.


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## jfboothe

TXSkiff said:


> View media item 485


Do you mind if I ask what you are doing here? It appears that all of the strips are just being butted up to one another in a line and you plan to finish stripping it out from here. I would really caution you on this since you are creating a weak point along this break in the strips. I think it's fine to butt the strips together (a lot of people will scarf them) since it is being totally encapsulated in heavyweight fiberglass but you really need to stagger them all over and try to minimize any weak lines like this.


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## jonrconner

^^^ I was thinking the same thing, I know you're going to glass it inside and out, but not staggering the joints seems like a strange way of building, not only for strength but also because joint will not be fair and you'll end up removing a lot of material to get it in line.
JC


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## Boatdesigner

I must have been too tired when I looked at those pics last night and didn't even notice the strips all ending in the same frame bay. I agree with the above posters, generously stagger all those strips! It isn't as important if you are scarfing the strips, but if you are butting them you need to really be careful about this.


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## TXSkiff

So I see your point. I actually saw them as staggered but I understand now. The real reason they are that way is I started stripping before the transom was finished and finding wood 16 feet long was a challenge. I also wanted the long pieces to carry the curves and lines. The shorter pieces don't seem to twist as well. 

1. Is there a fix?
2. In hindsight I would have scarfed the strips but I saw so many comments all over that said no need to. 
3. After measuring that pile of joints is very close to the spot where my under gunnel rod storage will be on the inside of the hull. Maybe that will add the structural support needed?


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## jonrconner

I think from the standpoint of strength you're not in that much trouble, you can put a bunch of biax on the inside to compensate.
Making this area fair is the bigger problem, how much curvature is the hull going through in this area and what can you do to keep it fair? The thickness of these strips just doesn't give you a ton of tolerance for knocking down a big lump in the side.
JC


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## LWalker

I hate to say it, but if it were my boat at this point in the build I would remove those strips....looks to be about 15 of them. One cut down a seam and you could have them all out of there fairly quick.


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## TXSkiff

Its a fairly flat spot as far as the rest of the hull is concerned. I'm not worried about fairing it up. I'll see if I can take a picture that shows what I'm seeing.

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## jonrconner

I was thinking about the longitudinal curvature, but maybe it's pretty straight?
JC


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## TXSkiff

It's pretty straight.


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## Boatdesigner

There isn't much longitudinal curvature back aft. Also the sides have very low structural loads back there. If the ends are really well attached and you add an extra layer of 1208 in that area on the inside, I doubt it would ever be a problem. I am more worried about a hard hit against a dock or another boat than anything the seas might do to it.

Would it be possible to cut the glue joint with a thin bladed knife and then remove say a foot or so of planking from every other plank? Then you could fit in another plank, gluing with epoxy to make sure it is well attached. I have no idea how to accomplish it, but if you could scarf the end planks on in place, that would probably be pretty good. I know it is done on thicker planking, I just am not sure how you would do it on 1/4". Could you take a file or sander and just cut a bevel on the ends and glue an end plank on with a matching bevel? It could be that Jim is right and it would be faster and easier to just pull all the planks off and re-do it! Are both sides this far along or just the one?


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## TXSkiff

Both...I am up for the extra glass on the inside....almost cried when someone suggested I take all those strips off. I'm actually farther along than the pictures. 

I am not hitting anything and I may be "detained" if anyone hits my boat so that isn't so much a worry.


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## TXSkiff

TXSkiff said:


> Both...I am up for the extra glass on the inside....almost cried when someone suggested I take all those strips off. I'm actually farther along than the pictures.
> 
> I am not hitting anything and I may be "detained" if anyone hits my boat so that isn't so much a worry.


Just had a thought. I could scarf the rest of the joints on the fly. That would be fairly easy.


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## jonrconner

I really don't think trying to scarf would make much difference at this point, just try to get the line of the boat to come out right, you can clamp a board covered with wax paper or plastic wrap over the new joint extendinding forward and back into the next bays to keep things fair while your glue sets up.
JC


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## TXSkiff

Guess who found a 50 hp motor with tilt power tilt and trim today for $120?


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## Boatdesigner

jonrconner said:


> I really don't think trying to scarf would make much difference at this point, just try to get the line of the boat to come out right, you can clamp a board covered with wax paper or plastic wrap over the new joint extendinding forward and back into the next bays to keep things fair while your glue sets up.
> JC


Good idea! This would keep the same flow from front to back and help avoid a hard spot that you would have to sand down. It's amazing how strong modern glues are these days. Both epoxy and Titebond glue joints will tear wood if done right. Once you get beyond the strength of the wood, you're as good as you can get.

If you have already gotten beyond that area with the planking, then just add a foot or so of extra 1208 to the inside of that area with all the joints. Frankly, I don't think it will matter, but it makes me feel better suggesting it! I guess I need to add a note to the construction drawings saying to stagger joints.


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## TXSkiff

Epoxy Help!!!

Many of you have recommended Raka Epoxy. Can someone help me with ordering the right stuff. I live in Houston so it's mostly humid all of the time. I should be done before it gets too hot. Do I need the tropical? I'm almost confused enough to make the right decision but need a little more help.


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## yobata

I'd recommend boatbuildercentral.com 

They have 2:1 marine epoxy that is the same as raka - Mainepoxy - I got the slow hardener cause I live in Florida. You can give them a call and they will recommend the best stuff for you and the prices are pretty competitive


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## jonrconner

As yobata said, they have good advice and the best price, no reason why their Marine epoxy shouldn't work for you.
JC


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## TXSkiff

Almost done with the hull. I have to cut about 20 more strips as I underestimated the number initially. I'll order epoxy and glass next week. Then the fun starts. I can't wait to flip it over. 


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## Boatdesigner

WOW! You're really motoring along! I keep trying to tell people how fast you can build these hulls with the strip planking. I think having small, easy to handle strips really makes things simpler and less intimidating. Take your time fairing and make sure you do as much as you can on the wood prior to glassing.


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## TXSkiff

Update today. Had a good bit of time to day to get some work done. 

Can anyone recommend a light fairing material to get this thing ready to glass? How fair should i get it? Like fair as in my first woodworking project in the 8th grade or like the bowl you make for your Grandmother that the final grit of the sand paper is the grooves that make fingerprints on your thumb?
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## Boatdesigner

You want to get it fair, meaning no hollows or bumps in the surface. I don't think it needs to be perfectly smooth as you will be glassing over it anyway. Maybe 120 grit or so. You don't want to be working out high spots on the glass as you will damage the structure of the boat. This is the part where you slow down and work very carefully. Check the surface with a batten made from one of your strips in all directions, fill in the low spots and sand down the high spots. Don't take more than 1/32" - 1/16" off over a large area or you'll be making the core too thin. I'll leave the recommendations for what brand of filler works best to those who have actually sanded on them. They all work great on my computer screen, no dust either!

Don't forget that you have to fill any gaps in the seams with epoxy and then coat the entire hull with epoxy prior to glassing. If you don't, the wood will suck the epoxy out of the glass creating dry spots in the laminate. You don't have to coat plywood though as it doesn't absorb resin as readily.


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## tomahawk

I like Quick Fair from System 3. Its easy to sand and you can sand it in 4 hrs or less depending on temps.


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## TXSkiff

tomahawk said:


> I like Quick Fair from System 3. Its easy to sand and you can sand it in 4 hrs or less depending on temps.


Should I use the fairing compound and then coat the entire hull with epoxy or the other way around? I think I could argue both ways but as we've seen I barely know what I'm doing. 

I've removed most of the high spots. There are just low spots left that need to be filled.

I was wondering how sharp the edges should be. Not sure if I need to round off all the corners and the center of the hull.

If you all want to come over and bring a six pack a gallon of epoxy and sand paper we could knock this think out pretty quick and go fishing.


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## jonrconner

Since pure low viscosity epoxy will actually impregnate the wood,I think you should put an initial coat of epoxy prior to fairing.
JC


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## TXSkiff

jonrconner said:


> Since pure low viscosity epoxy will actually impregnate the wood,I think you should put an initial coat of epoxy prior to fairing.
> JC


I'm so glad I asked. I thought it made sense to get the wood impregnated first. It will also protect me from taking too much wood away when I'm sanding.


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## Boatdesigner

Round off the keel and stem to a nice round bullnose. Keep the stem a little sharper so it doesn't throw too much spray out in front of you. I would keep the keel relatively fine as I think it will help with keeping the hull going straight when you pole. The chines you should just "break the edge" as they say in metal working, maybe a 1/16-1/8 radius. After you glass, it will be bigger and have to be sharpened again.


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## TXSkiff

Hi all. Just a small pause for shipping supplies and spring break. Got the base epoxy coat on and started fairing the low spots before I put the glass on. Tomorrow I should have a lot of time to work on the boat. View media item 655View media item 656View media item 657View media item 658


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## CurtisWright

You need to glass it first before fairing. I am not that familiar with the layups for a wood hull, but I would reach out to OysterBreath or LWalker on this forum because they are doing wood builds.

Once it is glassed you use a 4' board with air file paper to get it perfect. Apply fairing compound to fill the lows. (I would actually probably cover the whole hull in fairing compound. Its very difficult to fair two dissimilar materials together because they sand down at different rates. ) Use a 30" foam blocking tool for the bow and any curved areas. When fairing its best to work in the dark with a single light shining down the plane that you are working on so shadows are cast from the highs and lows. You will not see them in ambient light. Also, a laser level turned on its side is the best tool for keeping the keel straight when fairing.


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## TXSkiff

CurtisWright said:


> You need to glass it first before fairing. I am not that familiar with the layups for a wood hull, but I would reach out to OysterBreath or LWalker on this forum because they are doing wood builds.
> 
> Once it is glassed you use a 4' board with air file paper to get it perfect. Apply fairing compound to fill the lows. (I would actually probably cover the whole hull in fairing compound. Its very difficult to fair two dissimilar materials together because they sand down at different rates. ) Use a 30" foam blocking tool for the bow and any curved areas. When fairing its best to work in the dark with a single light shining down the plane that you are working on so shadows are cast from the highs and lows. You will not see them in ambient light. Also, a laser level turned on its side is the best tool for keeping the keel straight when fairing.



I'm not really fairing. Just filling in some of the low spots so the glass will lay flat.


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## TXSkiff

Got some glassing done. Did the keel yesterday. It felt like it took 3 hours. That cloth is super thick and takes a while to soak up the resin. Can't even imagine what the big pieces are going to be like. View media item 668View media item 671View media item 669View media item 670


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## CurtisWright

I recommend going to the nearest fiberglass shop and asking to hire someone for a day to teach you / help you glass the bottom. Your going to end up using 10 gallons of fairing compound if you keep glassing little 6" strips like that. You need to lay the whole boat up at once.


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## CurtisWright

TXSkiff said:


> I'm not really fairing. Just filling in some of the low spots so the glass will lay flat.


If you just need a filler then get some 3m micro balloons to mix with your resin to thicken it. Apply with an 8" drywall knife


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## yobata

Do you have any cloth that is 50" wide? I bought some 12oz biax from Betau that was 50" wide at a pretty reasonable price. They have 17 oz too if you prefer but I would think 12oz biax would be sufficient...


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## TXSkiff

The plans call for re-enforcement on the keel and chines. I have 50" wide glass. Just have to lay these pieces first according to the plans. After the chines I'll put 2 layers on the transom then glass each side with the 50" pieces. Thanks for paying attention. I'm bound to do something dumb sooner or later.


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## CurtisWright

The unevenness of the staggered layers is going to require a good bit of fairing. It's there now though so keep on trucking. Do you have rollers for it or are you doing it with a brush? 

You will need a second person to work those 50" wide pieces. I highly recommend spending 400$ and hiring a glass guy to teach you for a day.


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## TXSkiff

CurtisWright said:


> The unevenness of the staggered layers is going to require a good bit of fairing. It's there now though so keep on trucking. Do you have rollers for it or are you doing it with a brush?
> 
> You will need a second person to work those 50" wide pieces. I highly recommend spending 400$ and hiring a glass guy to teach you for a day.



I have rollers. I also learned a really cool technique with a putty knife that I like really well. 

I have a buddy that will work for beer for those big pieces. 

I had already prepared mentally for the fairing. Being my first boat it wasn't destined to be perfect any way. 

I live in Houston so that extra glass on the keel and chines may help with the oyster reefs and other wonderful things I'll be running into.


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## jonrconner

Plastic squeegees that are sold at auto parts stores for smoothing out bondo work very well for spreading epoxy. They're very cheap, but buy the better ones because they have smoother edge and won't catch on the fibers in the cloth. Mix your epoxy in about 10oz batches, you'll be able to spread that much out without having it kick in the cup.
Before you put the wide cloth on I'm assuming you're planning to sand down the tape to blend it in as much as possible without sacrificing the strength it adds.
JC


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## Boatdesigner

Curtis, the strips he is applying above are additional reinforcement in the high stress areas. The keel and chine really don't have much structure behind them, so the extra glass and some big fillets on the inside stiffen and strengthen the joints. I agree with Jon regarding the squeegees. You can work out most of the air and bubbles with the squeegees, leaving very little rolling.

The overlaps will require some fairing, but with good fairing compound it shouldn't be too bad. Use a long board to make sure it stays fair over a large surface. Try to avoid cutting into the glass when you sand as it is the main structure of the boat. It may seem heavy compared to the cloth used in some other designs, but it is actually quite thin for something structural!

Keep up the good work, the boat looks great!


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## No Bait / Lures Only

very nice, keep the pictures coming.


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## TXSkiff

I got the first layer on the transom and finished reinforcing the chines. One more layer on the transom then the big pieces go on. Once I get it glassed I'm gonna flip it over and work on the other side...I'm tired of looking at the bottom of the boat.

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## permitchaser

lemaymiami said:


> If the chines are sharp by design you'll probably want to stick to the design until you've built one or two... Trying to modify an existing design when you're building from scratch might get you in trouble the first time out.... Freeboard is the portion of your hull that's above the water when it's floating properly. Poling a skiff isn't complicated -until you add the wind... Once the wind is up you'll have an easy time poling downwind... not so easy across the wind, particularly with a high profile (sides of the boat particularly toward the bow of the skiff) since the wind will literally push you around and you'll end up fighting to pole in a straight line... Of course the less freeboard the more a hull is affected by water conditions. Everything about hull design is a trade-off (you give up something to gain something else....). If it were me, and it was a first effort I'd pretty much stick to the set of plans you've gotten - much less to go wrong that way. That's also why a road trip and an on the water evaluation of that hull might be a pretty good idea.... The old skiff I work out of (16' 10") has a very similar bow profile to the plans you've got... It should ride comfortably (a good bit better than many small microskiffs), be pretty dry riding, but a bit noisy when poling (however a noisy hull is still dead silent when you're poling with the wind...
> 
> By the way the picture you posted shows a skiff (the gray and white one with Tohatsu motor...) with very little freeboard... Looks perfect for poling shallow waters but it might not be much fun if you had to cross a big bay with two to three feet of chop (and worse weather as the day goes on....). My old Maverick eats up rough water when guys with perfect little technical skiffs are hiding somewhere.... Like I said -everything's a trade off...


Amen to the wind. I forgot once to check the wind before I poled onto a flat. Ended up in to the wind trying to get off. In my big fat boat it was fun trying to keep it straight

But I degress ⛴


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## TXSkiff

Buried the build over here in the corner. Had a good day. Used every last ounce of Epoxy today.  Had to do this solo but it wasn't too bad. Maybe I should charge a fiberglass guy $1400 to show him how to lay glass.
Watched every episode of Silver Kings. Talked the wife into moving to the Keys. She actually asked how soon we could move. I have Tarpon Fever, not sure what she has!!!


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## CurtisWright

Boatdesigner said:


> Curtis, the strips he is applying above are additional reinforcement in the high stress areas. The keel and chine really don't have much structure behind them, so the extra glass and some big fillets on the inside stiffen and strengthen the joints. I agree with Jon regarding the squeegees. You can work out most of the air and bubbles with the squeegees, leaving very little rolling.
> 
> The overlaps will require some fairing, but with good fairing compound it shouldn't be too bad. Use a long board to make sure it stays fair over a large surface. Try to avoid cutting into the glass when you sand as it is the main structure of the boat. It may seem heavy compared to the cloth used in some other designs, but it is actually quite thin for something structural!
> 
> Keep up the good work, the boat looks great!



Your going to have to put 1/8"-1/4" of fairing compound on the back half of the bottom of the boat to get the planing surface fair. The 2-3 layers right at the transom will act like built in trim tabs if its not faired properly.


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## TXSkiff

She looks a lot bigger flipped over. I'm gonna get the inside done and flip her back over for all that wonderful fairing to come. 

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## RunningOnEmpty

Did this get finished yet?


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## TXSkiff

No it's not finished yet. The keeper of the finances alerted me that buying wood wasn't currently in the budget. I'm about to get started again. Hopefully more pics soon.


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## Rod_Gentry

This is a great build thread, I hope you have fun getting started again.

There is a ton of misinformation in this thread from people who haven't built strip. I designed and built my first strip boat around 1980, and have worked with some top pros. Here is the skinny:

First you have to decide basically whether the finish is bright or paint. In this case paint is the only way that makes sense, and it is easier to prep for paint.

Second you need to be aware of whether you are building a wood composite boat, or a wood core boat. Composite leans more towards the wood being an active partner in the global loads, such that it is picking up major weight other than as a core (keeping skins in relationship to each other). The reason this matters a little is that when you come to issues like the line of butts, or whether to scarph strips, doesn't mater if you are using the wood as a core, they are critical if you are using it in a composite to carry longitudinal loads.

1) Butts. Some good info here. Simplest way to fix at this point is to take a grinder to the butts, or any other tool that will get the wood out and cut a shallow curved troth at least 1/3rd through, fill with structural epoxy putty (say 1/4 cab, 3/4 balloons, phenolic preferred but anything as hard as the wood will do.) Tape with one tape that overlaps the edges a little and sand fair. It is actually better to do the whole thing as part of the wet layup. All the glassing...



2) Fairing. bark back the strips so they are as fair and smooth as you can get them with 7-8 in square pad sander, this is a disc polisher (there are cheap ones) that you have laminated a fiberglass layup out of two layer of 20 oz, is is square with corners rounded. This tool will grind your wood and epoxy filler back in seconds and not dig in due to the corners. It's a pro tool not all that dangerous but it can hurt you particularly working inside. Once you have the surface cleaned up and nice and preliminarily fair, I would glass, there is enough glass on this thing you can't do that much by wasting time on the raw wood. 

You NEVER epoxy raw wood before you fair. Well there are no nevers, but this would be close. You will end up with a starting surface rougher than the wood, and harder to sand, and you won't get a chemical bond to the prep layer because you have to wait till the epoxy fully cures to sand it, both to do a good job and to limit you chem exposure. Once it is hardened you can't get a chemical bond from the glass to whatever is there on the wood. Your boat will be OK, but you are giving up a ton, just to make the job harder on yourself.

You could longboard the whole surface, particularly if the woodwork turns out so bad you think you need to get back to the design before you muddy it up any more (looks good in the pics)

3) Glassing. Epoxy is critical to how you do this job and what it does for the boat. The best epoxies are ones like WEST that are very hard. Almost always hard is good, for some reason people seem to think that soft is good, or flexible as they say. But for general hull building I find RAKA, S3s original, and so forth are good enough. All brands and mixes are not the same, you find that out if you have alergies, it isn't all the same shell or dupont stuff.

One of the key differences in how the epoxies work is whether they need to be moved around with a squeegee (yellow plastic spreaders), or a roller. A roller which is just a low end 3/8" nap roller on a good 3" frame, is the easiest to work with, but doesn't work with epoxies like WEST (for most glassing).

There are many ways of doing glassing, on most strip or ply boats, for beginers, the best method is the dry method. You have bare raw wood, you preposition as much of the cloth as you can on the boat, ideally the whole boat, and that should be easily possible with a boat of the size depending on shape. You then pick a sensible place to start like one side in the middle, and start applying the epoxy, you get it worked in until it soaks the wood as far as it can an levels up on, and doesn't pool on the glass cloth. The glass cloth at this point is your measure of the level of epoxy you want to leave on the wood. A perfect surface is matt looking, uniform, no drips or pools. Holes that aren't filled are virtually impossible to fill later. Roller are great because they spread epoxy fast, but remove it where it shouldn't be, and yet deposit it in areas that become dry due to different densities in the wood.

One major risk is that the job will cool, say if you switch off the lights to go to bed. And then it sucks epoxy off out of the glass all over the boat, and you have a terrible mess with areas that look like netting. It can at first not look half bad. The main way to combat this is to warm and keep the boat at room temp for a day before you work and until the glass is hard. Working in a cold shop in the winter will double the difficulty of doing the job at room temp and humidity. Pros keep going all the time but it takes a lot more experience.

You want to do all the glass at once, wet on wet, and if that isn't possible keep the break to a minimum. I would never do tapes as a separate step. the cloth always goes down first, then the tapes, it is all wet on wet, and I do all the coats of resin I need to do to fill the cloth, and keep it filled, yet I never let it build above the level of the cloth.

When you are laying out the cloth, you may find areas you missed when smoothing out the surface or holes you failed to fill. I always prep these with wet epoxy putty then put the cloth on. But it can bite you, if you don't know how much you can do you may end up with areas that have partially cured and either bonded cloth to the boat, or made it impossible to lay flat, but when you know your biz, this is the kind of efficiency and chem continuity that is idea, and not difficult once you have a bit of work with your favorite epoxy under your belt.

Big tip on inside is bog/epoxy putty/cove all the seems and wet out all the glass and tape in one or two steps, again wet on wet.

4) fairing over the glass. You get or make a notched trowel. You apply WEST 410 and your epoxy filler to the scraped, sanded and cleaned surface. You cover it so the whole thing looks like a farmer's field. When it is well hardened off, you longboard the ridges until they are fair all over. Then you dust and clean, and come over the stripes again filling in all the slots to the level they were first sanded to. You will then have a globally fair surface that when it is longboarded and finish sanded will be ready for paint prep.

If your job comes out of the glassing really neat, then just a little scraping and light sanding followed with some expensive primers will get you to paint.


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## Rhart

TXSkiff said:


> I've been researching (obsessing) over this skiff I'm building. I need to make my final decisions on things I want to change. Thought I might ask for some advice. I'm worried about quiet and shallow water. (Call me captain obvious).
> There skiff is 15'10" long and has a 66" beam. 6* dead rise.
> You all have much more experience than I, so shoot me some thoughts. I've only fished in the front of a skiff so I haven't much to go on.
> 
> 1. Should I add a pocket drive?
> 2. Center console or side console or tiller?
> 3. Plans call for portable fuel tank, should I install a permanent one?


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## Rhart

Beautiful Boat and amazing craftsmanship !!


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## omegadef

Did this ever get finished?


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