# Mosquito Lagoon Questions



## HelthInsXpert

I'm pretty new to the area and having been putting in my time on the Lagoon. I moved from Georgia last year and am trying to get the hang of tides and fish activity. 

I realize there's barely any tidal movement in the Lagoon but in general if I'm looking for Redfish on flats or up against mangroves is it generally better to fish a falling tide or a rising tide?

I would think fish would be up on a flat in the higher water and then moving off as the water falls? Would it be best to start fishing an hr before high tide and then call it quits say 2hrs after high?

Again, this is probably saltwater 101 here but I've got to learn somewhere.


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## Flats Broke

The tide pulse is greater at the north end of the Lagoon than at the south end because Ponce Inlet to the north is the source point of rising and falling water. If you watch a flat in the north end throughout a complete pulse, you will see a significant difference in water depths. Some flats that may have been high and dry at low tide will become flooded with almost two feet of water at high tide. However, at the very south end of the Lagoon, you will only see a few inches in difference. The difference is due in part to the distance from Ponce Inlet and the fact that Haulover Canal allows a lot of water to flow out of the Lagoon over to the Indian River. This time of year a far more important variable for fishing success is time of day rather than tide direction or level. You have to be on the water very early or very late to see much tailing activity. Once the sun is up and blazing the flats, most of the fish will seek greater depths to alleviate the temperature and glare caused by the sun. As regards the best tide status for fishing in the Lagoon, when you have a situation where you have higher water in the very early morning, i.e., just before and shortly after sunrise, you have the best of all possible worlds. When it is rising, fish will still be moving into a previously too shallow area. When it is falling, fish will slowly begin to leave those areas, especially if the sun is getting higher.


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## HelthInsXpert

Very helpful, I appreciate the response. I live in NSB beachside so I always put in at Canaveral at boat ramp 1. I've fishing almost 100% the north end and never even been down to the Poll/Troll zone. I really need to venture out further I think.


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## 994

HelthInsXpert said:


> Very helpful, I appreciate the response. I live in NSB beachside so I always put in at Canaveral at boat ramp 1. I've fishing almost 100% the north end and never even been down to the Poll/Troll zone. I really need to venture out further I think.


Are you the guy with the Abaco Waterman?


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## HelthInsXpert

mosquitolaGOON said:


> Are you the guy with the Abaco Waterman?


Hah, yup that’s me. The newbness must show on the water also. I appreciate all the help folks have been so far.


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## HelthInsXpert

Been getting out every week at least and am certainly finding fish. I still havn't ventured any further south than Middle Island/Plantation Island, but am finding 25+ fish each morning. Just not seeing any 'schools' to speak of. And many times the areas are really blown out from mullet. (Do the mullet diminish in winter months at all?) I appreciate the help so far.


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## TheAdamsProject

@HelthInsXpert up on the North end we rarely see the schools of fish like you see south and yes the giant mullet have been mudding up the place pretty bad. Seems like the mullet come in waves some times and right now has been worse than normal to me but they never totally leave.


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## HelthInsXpert

nativejax said:


> @HelthInsXpert up on the North end we rarely see the schools of fish like you see south and yes the giant mullet have been mudding up the place pretty bad. Seems like the mullet come in waves some times and right now has been worse than normal to me but they never totally leave.


I really want to fish further south. But just kind of nervous about venturing past my 'comfortable' zone. Anything I should know or an area to start? I always put in on Canaveral Beachside ramp and head south. Should I start in the Poll and Troll zone and sort of venture out from there?


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## TheAdamsProject

HelthInsXpert said:


> I really want to fish further south. But just kind of nervous about venturing past my 'comfortable' zone. Anything I should know or an area to start? I always put in on Canaveral Beachside ramp and head south. Should I start in the Poll and Troll zone and sort of venture out from there?


Yea you can start at the Pole n Troll. It is easy to learn how to run it as there are White poles that mark its perimeter and there is an entrance/exit on the north end and one on the south end. Once you enter just run from marker to marker and then set it down and start poling.


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## flyclimber

You may accidentally find a manatee while in the lagoon especially around pole and troll.


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## Flats Broke

HelthInsXpert said:


> I really want to fish further south. But just kind of nervous about venturing past my 'comfortable' zone. Anything I should know or an area to start? I always put in on Canaveral Beachside ramp and head south. Should I start in the Poll and Troll zone and sort of venture out from there?


The big mullet are more prevalent this time of year due to the fall mullet run which brings them in from the ocean to spawn. Your plan of fishing the poll and troll zone and then working your way steadily south is a good one. There are usually fish somewhere on the vast Tiger Shoal area, but finding them is not always easy. The main problem with Tiger is that there are always boats there, and many of the operators of them pay no attention to the rules. From Tiger south, your options are to stay on the east side or switch over to the Klinkers on the opposite side of the Lagoon. One thing that can help you decide which side to fish will be wind direction. If the wind has been blowing steadily from the east for a while, that will mean that the west side where the Klinker Islands are located will likely be difficult to sight fish because of the stacked up brown algae driven there by the wind. The Klinkers are a string of man made spoil islands created when the ICW channel was dredged in the lagoon. The string of islands ends at Haulover Canal because the ICW then turns into Haulover and heads over to the north end of the IRL. Similarly, if the wind has been from the west, then the east side of the Lagoon will be hard to sight fish. You don't have to worry about running aground in your HB skiff at least until you get down to Pardon Island on the east side, which is directly across from Haulover Canal. Just stay far enough away from the island before shutting down and you won't have any problems. The only really shallow water for the rest of the way down the east side will occur when you get near Cucumber Island, which is actually a large point that reaches out into the water from the east side and has very shallow water for a long way out all around it. So stay a good distance from it before coming down off a plane to avoid having to get out and push. Cucumber is directly across the lagoon from the Bio Lab launch ramp. There are usually fish in the shallows somewhere around the point. From Cucumber south there is a long flats area on the east side behind Playlinda Beach. It used to be a good area for reds and trout, but like the rest of the south end of the lagoon, these days it is far less productive due to the loss of the prolific grass beds which used to cover this area. The south end has a big problem with turbidity caused by brown algae which prevents photosynthesis. The south end is far worse than the north end which is bad enough itself, but at least in the north end there is a nominal tidal pulse to help keep the water semi-clear. These days in the south end, where once vast grass beds and clear water were the norm, now there is almost no grass, usually turbid water and muck bottom composed of decomposing algae. This combination is extremely detrimental to sustaining fish populations. Finally, one last shallow water warning should include a sand bar, or should I say muck bar, that sits right out in the middle of the lagoon at the south end called the Whale Tail. This is a large bar with a fairly distinct drop off on its edges. In the winter when water levels are down due to lack of rainfall, this bar can get very skinny even becoming exposed at times. There are large PVC pipes marking the opposite ends of the bar which is itself sort of triangular in shape. In the good old days the Whale Tail was a favorite spot to hunt schools of giant bull reds. Not so much now. Hope all this helps.


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## HelthInsXpert

Man this is great. Thank you! I need to print this out and take it on the boat!


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## Capnredfish

Flats broke did give you some great info. However, nothing beats time. Just go pole a new section every time you go out to learn the area. Keep notes on conditions, date and fish activity. Within a few years you will know your hotspots. You’re late by 15 years. Fishing then was amazing. Schools were more numerous and larger. I prefer stalking singles or doubles working shorelines.


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## 994

HelthInsXpert said:


> Been getting out every week at least and am certainly finding fish. I still havn't ventured any further south than Middle Island/Plantation Island, but am finding 25+ fish each morning. Just not seeing any 'schools' to speak of. And many times the areas are really blown out from mullet. (Do the mullet diminish in winter months at all?) I appreciate the help so far.


They will start schooling up in a couple months, but don’t expect anything like the stories you hear. Stalking a singled out or pair of tailing redfish, or a big 8-10# trout with his back out of the water waiting to ambush a mullet, or seeing one cruise a shoreline is much more fun in my opinion.

Explore the areas from the Canaveral ramp to Slippery Creek for a while. Then Slippery to Shotgun. Then Shotgun to George’s. Lots of people like to run and gun here, but if you slow down and try to figure out why fish are in a certain area, you can find them about everywhere. Google Earth is your friend. Find grass and go explore. 

You can also hire a guide and tell him you are interested in learning the area. Spend the day less about fishing and more about learning how to get to and from. Use Navionics GPS and save the tracks.

If you’re “seeing 25+ fish each morning” then what’s the problem?


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## sjrobin

Flats Broke said:


> These days in the south end, where once vast grass beds and clear water were the norm, now there is almost no grass, usually turbid water and muck bottom composed of decomposing algae. This combination is extremely detrimental to sustaining


Another of the long term effects of Okeechobee water diversion. Both coasts and ENP.


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## Karlee

Seeing 25 fish/day is pretty good in my book. I doubt I saw 25 in the P&T today.


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## msmith719

sjrobin said:


> Another of the long term effects of Okeechobee water diversion. Both coasts and ENP.


Sjrobin; Mosquito Lagoon is about 100 miles north of the St. Lucie River where the L. Okeechobee discharges are dumped out on the East Coast. The Lake O discharges have zero effect on Mosquito Lagoon, there's no pathway for the discharge water to get into the Lagoon. Mosq. Lagoon has its own set of problems that have turned it into a vast septic system. Those problems include septic tank runoff, fertilizer runoff from both yards and golf courses and road runoff (oil & tars) and even some industrial pollution. Several years back we had a major bloom of Brown Algae which wiped out the grass areas and caused some fish kills although not extensive kills like they have on the West Coast. As in all of FL the problem stems from too many people; seems like everyone in the Northeast has determined that FL is the only place in the U.S. where old folks retire. My thought is that we need to stop spraying mosquitoes; those old farts will be out of here in a flash headed back to NY, NJ and points north!


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## HelthInsXpert

I'm actually pretty happy with the number of fish I've seen so far. I just need more practice on presentation. I fly fish 100% and just gotta get close enough to cast. I'm really trying to figure out where to fish for Tarpon. Any tips on where I should be fishing to find them?


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## Capnredfish

South causeway NSB nighttime. Just don't recall the season. I can find out. I don't target them up there. There are some small ones throughout the lagoon. Mostly southern half and back in some creeks along west shore. Some larger ones in open flats but not dependable.


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## Capnredfish

The man says most of the warm season and very good during the fall mullet run. I have seen it. In the hundreds.


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## HelthInsXpert

Good stuff on the Tarpon info. I’m headed to the south end tomorrow for the first time to poke around. Thank you guys for the help. When does this mullet run begin? Is it a spawning migration?


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## 994

Tarpon? Drift the main channel and Old Channel on an outgoing tide with a big ass floating crab pattern. If you can line it up, drift the main channel from Park Ave boat ramp to the North Bridge on a high outgoing tide at sunset. But those fish know where the sailboats are moored up so good luck. Also don't piss off the shrimpers. Small tarpon, just find a canal in the rainy season. Google earth is your friend. If you want to know where the big resident girls lay up in the spring and late summer before the fall mullet run, that won't get posted on a public forum. Pay your dues first.


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## Flats Broke

mosquitolaGOON said:


> Tarpon? Drift the main channel and Old Channel on an outgoing tide with a big ass floating crab pattern. If you can line it up, drift the main channel from Park Ave boat ramp to the North Bridge on a high outgoing tide at sunset. But those fish know where the sailboats are moored up so good luck. Also don't piss off the shrimpers. Small tarpon, just find a canal in the rainy season. Google earth is your friend. If you want to know where the big resident girls lay up in the spring and late summer before the fall mullet run, that won't get posted on a public forum. Pay your dues first.





HelthInsXpert said:


> Good stuff on the Tarpon info. I’m headed to the south end tomorrow for the first time to poke around. Thank you guys for the help. When does this mullet run begin? Is it a spawning migration?


It is not primarily a spawning migration, but spawning will occur shortly thereafter for the sexually mature members of the schools. The primary reason huge schools of silver mullet move southward along the Atlantic coast his time of year is that they are a temperature sensitive species. They need water that is at least 68 degrees, unlike striped mullet that can stay all along the Atlantic coast year round. The schools of silver mullet from 4-5 inch fingerlings to adults will usually begin moving south in late August or early September with the peak of the run usually occurring around mid September to early October. By November it will be over. The adults will have all moved off shore to spawn, and their larvae will get washed north with the Gulf Stream. It is not known for certain how they know when fall has arrived. There are years when it has been a long hot summer and early fall, and water temps have not yet begun to fall significantly; but the mullet seem always to know that they need to start heading south by late August or early September. Maybe they gauge the season by the ecliptic. No one knows for sure. It has already begun this year, and the advanced parties are here now. Schools are showing up along the surf here in the Space Coast, and they are making their way inside through the inlets too. I have a beach house in NSB and a house on a canal in Edgewater, and there are migratory schools in front of the beach house and in my canal already. The mullet run provides some of the best fishing of the year. Cast anything resembling a live mullet just at the edge of the schools, and you are likely to get action from jacks, ladyfish, bluefish, tarpon, sharks, snook, trout and reds. Even kings will come within 100 yards of shore to gorge on the schools along the beaches. Since you said you fly fish nearly 100% of the time, this is a good time of year for Enrico Puglisi's "Finger Mullet" in 2/0 and his "Finger Mullet Black Tail" flies in 3/0.

I've tried to be as helpful as possible with my previous posts about the layout of the lagoon and today's post regarding the fall mullet run, but no one including me is likely to tell you where their favorite tarpon holes are, especially if you're looking for the big girls. Here's a true story that perfectly demonstrates the lengths to which long time area anglers will go to keep their tarpon spots secret. One of the best known guides in this area is Dave Brown. Quite a few years ago now, Billie Bishop, offered to take Dave Tarpon fishing. Dave was elated because Billie's dad, Bill Bishop, was one of the most renowned tarpon fishermen of this area. Bill and Billie were Orlandoans, but Bill for many years had a house near J.B.'s on the river and fly fished more regularly and successfully for tarpon over here than anyone else I know. He owned a large business office supply business in Orlando. Bill Sr. now resides in southwest Florida, but he was widely regarded as the tarpon whisperer of this area by most anglers for decades. However, when young Billie showed up to take Dave tarpon fishing, he handed Dave a blindfold and told him to put it on, and that the boat wasn't going to move until Billie was sure Dave couldn't see where they were going. That is as much as I am going to tell you, but you should at least be able to surmise from what I have said, that the big girls are not for the most part in the main body of the lagoon, nor are they in any readily discernible part of the main channel. That is not to say that you won't see some trophy-sized fish in the ICW main channel, just outside the surf line along the beaches or in and around Ponce Inlet. You certainly will see them in all those places, but you will find even more elsewhere. Happy hunting. 

Since you now live in Central Florida, I should probably mention too, just in case you don't already know, that summer is prime time for fly fishing for tarpon on the west central coast between places like Yankeetown to the south and Crystal River to the north. Just look for the pods of flats boats on the water as well as drones and the occasional helicopter overhead spotting for them. Tie something brown like a "cockroach fly" and get it down with either split shot or shooting head lines. You'd best be armed with at least an 11 weight rod for these girls of summer. You will be amazed at how many Colorado, Montana and Idaho license plates you will see in places like Homosassa, FL in the summer. Suffice it to say, these Rocky Mountain fly fishers aren't here for the weather.


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## HelthInsXpert

Flats Broke said:


> I've tried to be as helpful as possible with my previous posts about the layout of the lagoon and today's post regarding the fall mullet run, but no one including me is likely to tell you where their favorite tarpon holes are, especially if you're looking for the big girls. Happy hunting.


You guys are great, thank you for the advice and everything. I'll keep plugging away at things every chance I get.

Went out yesterday to the south end, put in at Bio Lab and fished all over just mainly looking for clean water and grass. Probably saw 10-17 reds, tons of sheepshead, and no tarpon. Wish I had some pictures to show...........

Thanks for the help again guys.


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## el9surf

msmith719 said:


> Sjrobin; Mosquito Lagoon is about 100 miles north of the St. Lucie River where the L. Okeechobee discharges are dumped out on the East Coast. The Lake O discharges have zero effect on Mosquito Lagoon, there's no pathway for the discharge water to get into the Lagoon. Mosq. Lagoon has its own set of problems that have turned it into a vast septic system. Those problems include septic tank runoff, fertilizer runoff from both yards and golf courses and road runoff (oil & tars) and even some industrial pollution. Several years back we had a major bloom of Brown Algae which wiped out the grass areas and caused some fish kills although not extensive kills like they have on the West Coast. As in all of FL the problem stems from too many people; seems like everyone in the Northeast has determined that FL is the only place in the U.S. where old folks retire. My thought is that we need to stop spraying mosquitoes; those old farts will be out of here in a flash headed back to NY, NJ and points north!


I'm not convinced there isn't a connection. The entire Indian River seemed to get progressively worse after the 2010 freeze and 2012 discharge. It has been down hill from there with algae blooms starting South and working their way North. First Sebastian got hit, then the Banana, then the North end around Scottsmore. This process was over years but it eventually worked it's way up here. Whatever ends up trapped in the north end of the IRL will eventually get pulled through Haulover with the tidal change. The lagoon was the last clean water but it eventually was contaminated.

The St Lucie dumps into IRL directly by the way so there is a direct path by water. Wind can easily drive suspended organisms like algae for miles. Along the way they can also multiply and grow given a food source which seems to be plentiful for the 125 mile stretch.

Anyways that's my take on it. To the op sounds like you are doing pretty good learning the lagoon. Seeing 25 fish a day is pretty good these days. Some days you see a lot, others I can count on one hand. I will say with the reduced habitat it's easier to find the fish. Less places to look for them.


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## HelthInsXpert

Certainly frustrating moving to the area all excited about being so close to this 'hallowed' body of water only to find that everyone is really down on it. I've got a 2yr old and hoping that by the time he can really fish with me that we see some improvements in the lagoon. 

That being said I'm out on the water at least once a week and sometimes twice. I have to say I don't know what things 'USED' to be like but except for brown water from mullet, I have found some beautiful grass, clear water, etc. Just wish I could find more tails! 

But I hope with some care that ML will come back. Just wish we could get people onboard with catch and release and take care of the resource that is the fish!


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## Flats Broke

HelthInsXpert said:


> Certainly frustrating moving to the area all excited about being so close to this 'hallowed' body of water only to find that everyone is really down on it. I've got a 2yr old and hoping that by the time he can really fish with me that we see some improvements in the lagoon.
> 
> That being said I'm out on the water at least once a week and sometimes twice. I have to say I don't know what things 'USED' to be like but except for brown water from mullet, I have found some beautiful grass, clear water, etc. Just wish I could find more tails!
> 
> But I hope with some care that ML will come back. Just wish we could get people onboard with catch and release and take care of the resource that is the fish!


Mullet are beneficiaries of the brown water but not the cause. The brown color of the Lagoon's water is due to brown algae that are nourished by lawn and agricultural fertilizers, septic tanks leaching wastewater, etc. The mullet eat algae but they only cause it in a miniscule way by creating their own bodily waste. Fertilizers, septic tanks, etc. are the main culprits. Also, historically it was normal to get extended periods of time in the winter when the temps would get cold enough to kill off any algae blooms in the local waters, but the last several winters have not been cold enough for long enough to do so. So climate change is likely only going to exacerbate the situation. I am of the opinion that the only chance we have to save the Lagoon is to install a few large culverts and pumping stations between it and the ocean along the eastern side of the Lagoon and through the narrowest sections of the barrier island to enable a regular flushing tide pulse to occur there. All the other strategies will take too long and cost too much money to gain the level of support needed to make them happen quickly enough to prevent system collapse. According to modeling conducted by Dr. Gary Zarillo, a professor of marine and environmental systems at Florida Institute of Technology, either cutting a new narrow tidal inlet or installing pumping stations and culverts in the southern Mosquito Lagoon produced complete flushing of the Mosquito Lagoon and the northern Indian River Lagoon within about 70 days or less of project completion. Cutting a new inlet would probably take too long from the standpoint of federal permitting, but the culverts and pumping stations are a more viable option. If you would like to read more about this approach, here's a link: https://www.scribd.com/document/275513792/Indian-River-Lagoon-Flushing-Model


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## 994

HelthInsXpert said:


> Certainly frustrating moving to the area all excited about being so close to this 'hallowed' body of water only to find that everyone is really down on it. I've got a 2yr old and hoping that by the time he can really fish with me that we see some improvements in the lagoon.
> 
> That being said I'm out on the water at least once a week and sometimes twice. I have to say I don't know what things 'USED' to be like but except for brown water from mullet, I have found some beautiful grass, clear water, etc. Just wish I could find more tails!
> 
> But I hope with some care that ML will come back. Just wish we could get people onboard with catch and release and take care of the resource that is the fish!


Brown tide is being caused by a few different organisms, one of which being Pyrodinium var. bahamense. Also causes the bioluminescence if you’re out early enough. Not enough concentration to be considered a “bloom.” Considering the amount of rainfall last month and the heat, we are doing pretty well up here in the Mosquito Lagoon. Recent seagrass surveys are showing seagrass coverage being more than expected. The places I was at the last three days were full of healthy grass with no macro algae which we usually see in the late summer.

New Smyrna, Edgewater, and Oak Hill (along with FLDEP) are doing a Reasonable Assurance Plan (similar to a Basin Management Action Plan when a TMDL has been established for an impaired waterway) to address water quality, set standard nutrient loads, and look at options for reducing nutrient loading. Here is a link to DEP with all documents. They are also holding a public comment forum at the library in New Smyrna on October 19th. 

http://publicfiles.dep.state.fl.us/DEAR/Mosquito Lagoon RA/

There are tons of projects happening to help, from stormwater filtration in New Smyrna and Edgewater, habitat restoration at the Marine Discovery Center, and reclaimed wellfields being established to eliminate discharges from treatment plants.

Opening an inlet is another argument that’s best left to another thread. It’s not that simple. It all takes time. There’s no quick fix. But looking at other estuaries such as Tampa Bay, Chesapeake Bay, and even the Florida Keys, the keys to improving the water was setting nutrient standards and setting goals to meet those standards through upgrading wastewater treatment plans to advanced water treatment, improving stormwater flow, and habitat restoration.


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## Capnredfish

HelthInsXpert said:


> Certainly frustrating moving to the area all excited about being so close to this 'hallowed' body of water only to find that everyone is really down on it. I've got a 2yr old and hoping that by the time he can really fish with me that we see some improvements in the lagoon.
> 
> That being said I'm out on the water at least once a week and sometimes twice. I have to say I don't know what things 'USED' to be like but except for brown water from mullet, I have found some beautiful grass, clear water, etc. Just wish I could find more tails!
> 
> But I hope with some care that ML will come back. Just wish we could get people onboard with catch and release and take care of the resource that is the fish!
> 
> Nothing personal or against you. Your first sentence. Moved to an area. There is a big part of the problem too many people now.


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## HelthInsXpert

Lol, ok cool. I'll just move back.......................

I promise someone like myself is NOT the problem. I catch and release only. Pull used line out of the water and clean up trash. Respect idle and pole only zones, etc. 
I would say the problem is people who have lived here forever keeping a limit of fish everytime they go out...............

But hey, you've got 1,251 posts and I've got 25 so who the hell am I.......


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## Capnredfish

HelthInsXpert said:


> Lol, ok cool. I'll just move back.......................
> 
> I promise someone like myself is NOT the problem. I catch and release only. Pull used line out of the water and clean up trash. Respect idle and pole only zones, etc.
> I would say the problem is people who have lived here forever keeping a limit of fish everytime they go out...............
> 
> But hey, you've got 1,251 posts and I've got 25 so who the hell am I.......


I never directed it towards you. You seem like a responsible fisherman. I was speaking about population overload in general. Fisherman are probably the least of the problem.


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## HelthInsXpert

Well I certainly agree that a lot of the problem does seem to come from more people moving to the coast. And I am one of them. But from what I understand it's over-use of fertilizer on lawns that's a huge cause of our water quality issues. And I just personally wish people would embrace catch and release as the norm instead of the outlier.


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## Capnredfish

I just can’t agree with catch and release. Keep just enough is what I believe in. No extra. I should not be forced to buy overseas seafood and never will. Ya ok at a restaurant the shrimp poor probably is. I don’t even care to buy farm raised US raised. What happens when we can’t even farm raise here? We need solutions. Leaving a few more fish that will eventually die without solutions only delayed hitting rock bottom.


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## 994

HelthInsXpert said:


> Well I certainly agree that a lot of the problem does seem to come from more people moving to the coast. And I am one of them. But from what I understand it's over-use of fertilizer on lawns that's a huge cause of our water quality issues. And I just personally wish people would embrace catch and release as the norm instead of the outlier.


Fertilizer runoff is among the problems. Managing wastewater treatment, stormwater runoff, old septic tanks, and old clay sewage pipes that allow water infiltration during heavy rainfalls are also major areas of concern. 

You just moved here, so I’d familiarize yourself with the Reasonable Assurance Plan that is being drafted right now. It’s all public documents available here.. http://publicfiles.dep.state.fl.us/DEAR/Mosquito Lagoon RA/ This will (hopefully) address the major areas of concern and provide solutions. It’s a regulatory plan, and having it in place will increase the types and amounts of funding available through grants and loans to the cities of NSB, Edgewater, and Oak Hill. There’s a public forum for it being held at the library on October 19th. Major concern about it right now because of lack of prioritization of septic to sewer conversions. All of the comments from the local scientists are available in that link above. 

Have you been to the Marine Discovery Center yet? Awesome people doing great things there for our river. But a t shirt or something and help em out.


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## Net 30

Capnredfish said:


> I just can’t agree with catch and release. Keep just enough is what I believe in. No extra. I should not be forced to buy overseas seafood and never will. Ya ok at a restaurant the shrimp poor probably is. I don’t even care to buy farm raised US raised. What happens when we can’t even farm raise here? We need solutions. Leaving a few more fish that will eventually die without solutions only delayed hitting rock bottom.


How do you determine how much is _"just enough"_? If you have 200 anglers fishing the lagoon every weekend day and each keeps _"just enough"_, how many Reds are taken from an obviously distressed resource every weekend? Every Week? Every month?

There is no way the number of Reds taken can be replenished and the stock remain at a healthy level especially in light of the loss of seagrass habitat and bait IMO.


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## 994

Capnredfish said:


> I just can’t agree with catch and release. Keep just enough is what I believe in. No extra. I should not be forced to buy overseas seafood and never will. Ya ok at a restaurant the shrimp poor probably is. I don’t even care to buy farm raised US raised. What happens when we can’t even farm raise here? We need solutions. Leaving a few more fish that will eventually die without solutions only delayed hitting rock bottom.


The sewer pipe that burst in the Indian River two months ago closed shellfish harvesting in the Mosquito Lagoon. Our oysters and crabs have evidence of micro plastics in their tissues. Our fin fish have elevated levels of mercury and copper. Brevard consistently has raw sewage discharges in the hundreds of thousands of gallons. Dolphins are dying from E. coli. How can you even argue that our fishery is cleaner than that of “overseas”? 

Local fish markets will have a better selection of fish from US waters that aren’t on the brink of ecological collapse. Or use the Monterey Bay seafood watch program to see what is being harvested from sustainable fisheries. https://www.seafoodwatch.org/


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## el9surf

Net 30 said:


> How do you determine how much is _"just enough"_? If you have 200 anglers fishing the lagoon every weekend day and each keeps _"just enough"_, how many Reds are taken from an obviously distressed resource every weekend? Every Week? Every month?
> 
> There is no way the number of Reds taken can be replenished and the stock remain at a healthy level especially in light of the loss of seagrass habitat and bait IMO.


I wish more people thought like this about catch and release. I have argued this point with friends over the years to no avail. The only way this mentality will ever subside is the day there is nothing left to take.

I posted a link a couple months ago about a petition for a 5 year catch and release only in MINWR. The idea was to give the area a break from harvest considering the water issues. By the responses I got you would think folks were being asked turn over their first born and all their guns.


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## Capnredfish

mosquitolaGOON said:


> The sewer pipe that burst in the Indian River two months ago closed shellfish harvesting in the Mosquito Lagoon. Our oysters and crabs have evidence of micro plastics in their tissues. Our fin fish have elevated levels of mercury and copper. Brevard consistently has raw sewage discharges in the hundreds of thousands of gallons. Dolphins are dying from E. coli. How can you even argue that our fishery is cleaner than that of “overseas”?
> 
> Local fish markets will have a better selection of fish from US waters that aren’t on the brink of ecological collapse. Or use the Monterey Bay seafood watch program to see what is being harvested from sustainable fisheries. https://www.seafoodwatch.org/


So the answer is to prevent me from taking a fish 4 times a year? If that is the best solution any of you have? We might as well catch and eat them all now before the are too toxic. I still trust a redfish or flounder from the lagoon in my area is safer than something shipped over from Vietnam. Have to agree. There are areas of Florida I would not eat fish from.


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## Capnredfish

If five year catch and release were to pass. I would propose not fishing(closed)for those 5 years as well. Might as well leave them alone completely. Still won’t fix the problem.


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## HelthInsXpert

Personally I love fishing for the exact reason that I can ‘harvest’ a fish but not kill it. You can’t do that with deer, turkey, etc. 

I love to eat fish, but I would rather eat what’s already killed at the fish market than to deplete the resource I’m fishing for. Just my take on it, but if people saw it more as sport instead of food I think we would have more fish to catch. 

On a side note today as we pulled on an island to grab lunch I saw the carcass of an overslot redfish that had obviously been fileted out and thrown on shore. 

Whoever did that is the problem with ANY fishery.


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## Capnredfish

And that person will not follow any fisheries law. I don’t fish for food either. But like to keep one every now and then. Especially if it’s survival chances look poor.


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## Flats Broke

HelthInsXpert said:


> Personally I love fishing for the exact reason that I can ‘harvest’ a fish but not kill it. You can’t do that with deer, turkey, etc.
> 
> I love to eat fish, but I would rather eat what’s already killed at the fish market than to deplete the resource I’m fishing for. Just my take on it, but if people saw it more as sport instead of food I think we would have more fish to catch.
> 
> On a side note today as we pulled on an island to grab lunch I saw the carcass of an overslot redfish that had obviously been fileted out and thrown on shore.
> 
> Whoever did that is the problem with ANY fishery.


Like you I enjoy watching my caught fish swim away almost as much as sight fishing for them. I don't keep any redfish caught in the Lagoon. If I liked the taste of Lagoon caught trout I might keep one occasionally; but, having tried them, to me they are not nearly as good eating as those caught on the west coast of Florida. My view is that the redfish in the Lagoon are under too much pressure already from the deteriorating environment and daily onslaught of anglers many of whom are guides whose clients want to keep their catches. Go to JB's or Goodrich's at noon on any day of the week and watch the daily harvest of live bait caught reds being filleted by guides for their customers.

Changing the subject completely, it is clear that microskiff member mosquitolaGoon is very well versed on the environmental issues confronting the Lagoon. All of the sources of pollution he cites and the remedies being considered and/or implemented are to be lauded. I am involved in several of them. However, because I know some of the scientists who have most extensively studied the Lagoon's habitat problems, I am also aware that the most likely scenario for the Lagoon's future is that, even if all of these remedies are eventually fully implemented, it will take 25 years to return the Lagoon to good health. Unfortunatley, before that time the Lagoon will already be essentially dead and devoid of most marine life. It is true that this approach helped save Chesapeake Bay, Florida Bay and other inshore areas, but it took 25 years to do it; and the Lagoon simply doesn't have that long to live. There are those of us who believe that unless culverts and pumping stations are installed along the narrowest regions of the barrier island on the Lagoon's east side to allow a significant daily tide pulse to flush the over enriched and algae infested water out of the Lagoon on a daily basis, we will end up with one of the best studied environmental disasters in modern history. This will be an expensive undertaking, but the cost should be compared to the cost of loosing the Lagoon as a viable fishery and the beautiful estuarian marine environment that it once was and could be again.


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## sjrobin

Flats Broke said:


> Like you I enjoy watching my caught fish swim away almost as much as sight fishing for them. I don't keep any redfish caught in the Lagoon. If I liked the taste of Lagoon caught trout I might keep one occasionally; but, having tried them, to me they are not nearly as good eating as those caught on the west coast of Florida. My view is that the redfish in the Lagoon are under too much pressure already from the deteriorating environment and daily onslaught of anglers many of whom are guides whose clients want to keep their catches. Go to JB's or Goodrich's at noon on any day of the week and watch the daily harvest of live bait caught reds being filleted by guides for their customers.
> 
> Changing the subject completely, it is clear that microskiff member mosquitolaGoon is very well versed on the environmental issues confronting the Lagoon. All of the sources of pollution he cites and the remedies being considered and/or implemented are to be lauded. I am involved in several of them. However, because I know some of the scientists who have most extensively studied the Lagoon's habitat problems, I am also aware that the most likely scenario for the Lagoon's future is that, even if all of these remedies are eventually fully implemented, it will take 25 years to return the Lagoon to good health. Unfortunatley, before that time the Lagoon will already be essentially dead and devoid of most marine life. It is true that this approach helped save Chesapeake Bay, Florida Bay and other inshore areas, but it took 25 years to do it; and the Lagoon simply doesn't have that long to live. There are those of us who believe that unless culverts and pumping stations are installed along the narrowest regions of the barrier island on the Lagoon's east side to allow a significant daily tide pulse to flush the over enriched and algae infested water out of the Lagoon on a daily basis, we will end up with one of the best studied environmental disasters in modern history. This will be an expensive undertaking, but the cost should be compared to the cost of loosing the Lagoon as a viable fishery and the beautiful estuarian marine environment that it once was and could be again.


Well written and accurate. In the northern hyper saline Laguna Madre of Texas at the head of Baffin Bay in an area called Yarborough Pass, sea grasses have still not recovered from ten years of brown tide. Barring major weather events, it takes twelve years for the water in Baffin Bay to cycle out, so cumulative nutrient impact reaches critical mass, the bloom occurs and more sea grass dies. The water in the Laguna looks healthy now, but another cycle of brown tide would have even greater impact on the sea grasses. Yet there are still floating fish camp structures scattered through out the Laguna Madre licensed by the state.


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## DBStoots

In his wonderful book, "A Net Full of Tales", South Florida tackle shop owner, "angler extraordinaire and incomparable story-teller" Tom Greene writes about the closure of Boca Inlet that connected the sea with the inland waters of that region. The two closest inlets were 20 miles apart in opposite directions. When this happened, the inlet became land-locked, and the "once-thriving conduit" became a "festering swill". The Intercoastal Waterway lost most of its current, the kiss of death for snook. So what happened? Several people, including Tom, a professor at FAU, and others decided it needed re-opening, regardless of what it took. A 200 yards long sandbar blocked the entrance of the inlet, with sand piled as high as the dunes. A small group of men started digging a trench with hoes and shovels. As the day progressed, 30 more, and then up to 500 joined in. By 6:00 p.m., the group had completed a trench that was 50 feet wide and several feet deep. As the tide rose, the breakers pushed farther inland and by dark the first fresh seawater in over a year had entered Lake Boca. Perhaps a group of like-minded conservationists and fishermen could undertake a similar clandestine operation in the ML to install the culverts? I'm in. Anybody else?


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## yobata

DBStoots said:


> In his wonderful book, "A Net Full of Tales", South Florida tackle shop owner, "angler extraordinaire and incomparable story-teller" Tom Greene writes about the closure of Boca Inlet that connected the sea with the inland waters of that region. The two closest inlets were 20 miles apart in opposite directions. When this happened, the inlet became land-locked, and the "once-thriving conduit" became a "festering swill". The Intercoastal Waterway lost most of its current, the kiss of death for snook. So what happened? Several people, including Tom, a professor at FAU, and others decided it needed re-opening, regardless of what it took. A 200 yards long sandbar blocked the entrance of the inlet, with sand piled as high as the dunes. A small group of men started digging a trench with hoes and shovels. As the day progressed, 30 more, and then up to 500 joined in. By 6:00 p.m., the group had completed a trench that was 50 feet wide and several feet deep. As the tide rose, the breakers pushed farther inland and by dark the first fresh seawater in over a year had entered Lake Boca. Perhaps a group of like-minded conservationists and fishermen could undertake a similar clandestine operation in the ML to install the culverts? I'm in. Anybody else?


I'm in to volunteer my time and sweat, but I do not know the legal standing of that piece of land. There may have to be lawyers involved before the physical work can begin


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## HelthInsXpert

yobata said:


> I'm in to volunteer my time and sweat, but I do not no the legal standing of that piece of land. There may have to be lawyers involved before the physical work can begin


I've thought of this several times. I'm sure it's completely illegal to disturb the dunes and beach area, but at the same time sometimes you can't wait. 

You guys meet up for this after dark sometime.........just let me know. I'll bring the dynamite.


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## DBStoots

Any attorneys out there willing to help?


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## dgt2012

Try Morgan and Morgan, he seems to like a good fight. 
Also need a good engineering firm that can navigate the labyrinthine of permitting required from the army corps of engineers (who have no limit on how long they have to review it) and someone to champion the cause in Tallahassee... Piece of cake. 
Good luck with Brevard County helping out, they are sold on oyster seeding and de-mucking. Volunteers to seed and kick the can down the road on de-mucking. The staff that care can't operate outside of the box as their hands are tied by a board of commissioners that are short sighted and full of their own political agendas to advance their own careers. 
The best action is to follow up on the FIT study and pump it. IMHO


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## dgt2012

Pressure the politicians to put a moratorium on construction within the beach side sewer system until the county sewer department can upgrade the existing system to handle the overflow and not spill it into the lagoon. This is the result from years of kicking that can down the road. Follow the money, they did it for individual septic tanks but not for big development. Not right, FN politicians, not good.
I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!


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## MariettaMike

There is a guide that recently determined the best thing he could do for the ML was to stop fishing the ML, stop promoting the ML as a fishery, and spend his time educating the public about environmental impacts.

All the while the Bethune Beach Bozo guides continue to parade buckets with limits of redfish and trout in front of JB’s patrons to lure them into commercial excursions to rape the ML of more Ziploc freezer burned contents.

Same chit happening on the Nature Coast, and worsening now that it’s C&R only for Redfish and Snook from Clearwater to Naples until 5/20/2019.


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## Guest

MariettaMike said:


> There is a guide that recently determined the best thing he could do for the ML was to stop fishing the ML, stop promoting the ML as a fishery, and spend his time educating the public about environmental impacts.
> 
> All the while the Bethune Beach Bozo guides continue to parade buckets with limits of redfish and trout in front of JB’s patrons to lure them into commercial excursions to rape the ML of more Ziploc freezer burned contents.
> 
> Same chit happening on the Nature Coast, and worsening now that it’s C&R only for Redfish and Snook from Clearwater to Naples until 5/20/2019.


Mike, been that way a long dang time here! Biggest problem here is it seems everyone is a guide!


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## LowHydrogen

HelthInsXpert said:


> I've thought of this several times. I'm sure it's completely illegal to disturb the dunes and beach area, but at the same time sometimes you can't wait.
> 
> You guys meet up for this after dark sometime.........just let me know. I'll bring the dynamite.


We need to rent a Cat 352 trackhoe with a decent bucket, needs to be delivered to Apollo Beach Boat Ramp #5. At high tide it's about 400' from water's edge to water's edge. Timing needs to be right, because this should be done right in front of a hurricane/major tropical storm (the bigger the better), we will only need to ditch 1 or 2 bucket widths wide to get it done. 400' of shallow ditching can likely be done in less than 6hrs even with an average operator, it could be easily completed at night without anyone knowing before it was done. We would need to steal some road work signs that look legit, and post a couple people in reflective vests and hard hats to keep looky lou's from venturing down by the work. 

Once breached the storm surge and lack of real substrate would handle the rest. Should have a decent ditch pretty quick.

Anyone involved would likely be arrested, and will likely have to payout the ins deductible for the hoe. I would estimate 40k a piece in fines, legal fees, plus whatever the cost for major damage to the hoe, this may be minimized if it was tracked far enough back North before getting out of dodge. Just something to think about....lol


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## SomaliPirate

LowHydrogen said:


> We need to rent a Cat 352 trackhoe with a decent bucket, needs to be delivered to Apollo Beach Boat Ramp #5. At high tide it's about 400' from water's edge to water's edge. Timing needs to be right, because this should be done right in front of a hurricane/major tropical storm (the bigger the better), we will only need to ditch 1 or 2 bucket widths wide to get it done. 400' of shallow ditching can likely be done in less than 6hrs even with an average operator, it could be easily completed at night without anyone knowing before it was done. We would need to steal some road work signs that look legit, and post a couple people in reflective vests and hard hats to keep looky lou's from venturing down by the work.
> 
> Once breached the storm surge and lack of real substrate would handle the rest. Should have a decent ditch pretty quick.
> 
> Anyone involved would likely be arrested, and will likely have to payout the ins deductible for the hoe. I would estimate 40k a piece in fines, legal fees, plus whatever the cost for major damage to the hoe, this may be minimized if it was tracked far enough back North before getting out of dodge. Just something to think about....lol


I am 100% down with this. Plus I'm dark skinned and still speak pretty decent Spanish. I'll just claim "undocumentation" and escape all legal repercussions.


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## Guest

I’ll operate the hoe! Just don’t get caught lol!


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## SomaliPirate

Actually, just running out there and burying a some anfo would probably be faster and more spectacular. (Again, just kidding, NSA).


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## Guest

SomaliPirate said:


> Actually, just running out there and burying a some anfo would probably be faster and more spectacular. (Again, just kidding, NSA).


Would ya look at that... “Ron White”


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## SomaliPirate

Boatbrains said:


> Would ya look at that... “Ron White”


I'm pretty sure the FBI agent assigned to monitor all my communications is never bored.


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## Guest

Count down to detonation...
3-2-1, hey ya’ll watch this!


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## Guest

SomaliPirate said:


> I'm pretty sure the FBI agent assigned to monitor all my communications is never bored.


I use the Niedner method of bluing firearms, it’s a nasty concoction of nitric/hydrocloric acids, water, and iron that when done properly is gorgeous and durable. 
Never google/bing nitric acid before flying! It too becomes a process! That is all I’m going to say lol!


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## Guest

Just to be clear, I actually ordered the product so no... I don’t think they knew what I was googling, but they knew what I bought and when due to the ordering proccess for such great things!


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## Capnredfish

When was the last time the lagoon had natural inlet? Are you sure culverts are the answer? I don’t know if it would remove what’s in the sediment. However fixing what caused it, if that is known would be where the money should be spent. If you fix the source, nature will correct itself. You can pour gas on your lawn for years. If you stop, eventually grass can grow again. Someone tell me exactly what happened 14 years ago when the water was amazing as was the fishing. Numerous hurricanes passed one after the other. What was stirred up or found its way in. It’s like a switch was hit and downward spiral began. Some of you guys were probably still using training wheels so you have only watched a decline since that time. I’ve been fishing it way before that time and never saw a decline.


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