# 2018 Florida Skiff Challenge



## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

So


Zika said:


> *2018 Florida Skiff Challenge is a Grueling Endurance Run
> Circumnavigating the Sunshine State, Benefits Captains for Clean Water*
> 
> April 3, 2018; Pensacola, Florida: “Gentlemen, start your outboards!”
> ...



So
This thread is going to start again this year?
LOL


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Oh man, here we go again. Just an fyi, I inquired about joining the challenge and was promptly turned down. It's only for advertising a certain segment of builders and has nothing to do with really raising charitable funds.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

I like to follow it even if there is no point to it.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'll probably look in on it, just cause I like the concept. It's the execution I don't like. If it's really about charity they should let as many guys join as possible!

What's more likely to raise awareness? 4 boats from only high end builders with big pockets making the run, or 100 skiffs from guys all over having fun?


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Team Chittum sure loves to show off their middle names


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)




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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

firecat1981 said:


> What's more likely to raise awareness? 4 boats from only high end builders with big pockets making the run, or 100 skiffs from guys all over having fun?


I hear you...but I don't think opening this sort of thing to the general public would be safe or manageable. I do, however, think they should open it to builder teams who can meet safety standards and fund support resources.

There's no reason builders like East Cape, Spear, Beavertail, etc should be denied entry if they wanted to participate.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

crboggs said:


> I hear you...but I don't think opening this sort of thing to the general public would be safe or manageable. I do, however, think they should open it to builder teams who can meet safety standards and fund support resources.
> 
> There's no reason builders like East Cape, Spear, Beavertail, etc should be denied entry.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this. How many other different types of events are open to the general public? If you can meet the rule's standards, and are willing to assemble a team for the race and support you should be allowed to go. Opening it up to only builders is ridiculous to me, building a boat doesn't make you an expert seaman, I'm proof of that, lol.

Why were the other builder denied entry? Or did they choose not to join over principle?


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Is there any proof the other builders were denied entry?


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

For them, it would suck for a ******** in a flat bottom Jon to win !


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

I will not be checking in on it as I have a job and life and could care less.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

firecat1981 said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree on this.


That's fine. I just have visions of buffoons killing themselves and causing problems all along the way if it were opened to the public. You know you'd have Chadbros in jet boats out there trying to participate.

Besides...there's nothing stopping you from starting your own skiff challenge tomorrow.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

Backcountry 16 said:


> I will not be checking in on it as I have a job and life and could care less.


Me neither, but I'm sure I'll read all about it here when I get home


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

yobata said:


> Me neither, but I'm sure I'll read all about it here when I get home


 I don't have Facebook never have never will so it's easy for me to not care about it.


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## Chad-Bro (Nov 9, 2017)

crboggs said:


> That's fine. I just have visions of buffoons killing themselves and causing problems all along the way if it were opened to the public. You know you'd have Chadbros in jet boats out there trying to participate.
> 
> Besides...there's nothing stopping you from starting your own skiff challenge tomorrow.


Bruh!?!?


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

Chad-Bro said:


> Bruh!?!?


my god I'm crying laughing....


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

First I’ve heard of such a thing, and I thought it was a great concept. However, damn lame that it isn’t open to anyone that can meet that criteria. I mean...the rules look like something an Everyman with beer and buddies could finish. Which would be very cool. Like Baja on water and in ‘Merica!


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Is there a specified route or any way you want as long as you get to a fuel spot before empty? Like cutting across the gulf , conditions permitting, rather than following coastline


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

That's what they did last year. As long as you hit the check points you are good to go as you wish.


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Can't wait for this shitshow


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Nobody is stopping any one of y'all from doing the exact same thing -- just start at their start point and start time, follow the same rules, etc. Drum up some social media interest if that's your thing, and see how you stack up. Be sure to bring an EPIRB at the very least, and obviously check in on microskiff whenever you stop to fuel up


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

This year means nothing as last year the weather was absolutely horrible.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Doing a copycat challenge isn't the same thing. I would want to be part of the event already taking place cause I don't have the money or time to organize it correctly, nor would you get the same organizations to care about a second event. 
Think of most other motorsports events, how many would guys watch longterm if only factory teams were allowed to compete?


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

crboggs said:


> I hear you...but I don't think opening this sort of thing to the general public would be safe or manageable. I do, however, think they should open it to builder teams who can meet safety standards and fund support resources.
> 
> There's no reason builders like East Cape, Spear, Beavertail, etc should be denied entry if they wanted to participate.


That's funny you brought this up as Harry Spear mentioned this the other day while we were fishing and he is going to enter his new Gold Cup skiff in this event next year. His son Luke and a friend are going to drive and he was going to be doing the back-up/support on land! He was pretty pumped to take on the big guys in the skiff market!!


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Would be more interested in a mapped course that incorporated poling sections in skinny water, open water, falling tides where team would have to calculate when not to get stuck, and of course fly fishing that required catching and releasing legal sized fish before advancing. Each manufacturer could enter one hand picked team.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm only here because I'm hoping this devolves into the old Hal vs. Flip thread.


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

SomaliPirate said:


> I'm only here because I'm hoping this devolves into the old Hal vs. Flip thread.


I second that motion!


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

I like that they're raising money for a good cause but other than that I don't find it terribly interesting to drive a skiff around the coast. There's also sort of an interesting irony in burning gas to help save the environment.


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## ADicus (Feb 15, 2013)

Good thing they’re 4 strokes huh!


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

SomaliPirate said:


> I'm only here because I'm hoping this devolves into the old Hal vs. Flip thread.


obviously Flip > Hal


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

321nole said:


> obviously Flip > Hal


Of course, but never forget Lefty > God


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

Can you imagine Flip narrating the race,

"Four skiffs glide amidst the gin clear waters of Florida's coast, a seemingly tranquil environment, unknowingly host to a race of peril between men, not unlike the race of the sea turtles, as they hatch from their fragile eggs in pursuit of the salty waters they will call home. "


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## Samba17 (Mar 20, 2018)

Captains for clean water? But they are doing a semi-pointless race burning tons of fuel up and down the waterways?


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

jhreels said:


> Can you imagine Flip narrating the race,
> 
> "Four skiffs glide amidst the gin clear waters of Florida's coast, a seemingly tranquil environment, unknowingly host to a race of peril between men, not unlike the race of the sea turtles, as they hatch from their fragile eggs in pursuit of the salty waters they will call home. "


too bad it would more likely be this duo


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

They're burning gas to save the environment.


It's a bold strategy Cotton, lets see if it pays off for them.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

jimsmicro said:


> They're burning gas to save the environment.
> 
> It's a bold strategy Cotton, lets see if it pays off for them.


I didn't know Al Gore had a skiff...


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

crboggs said:


> I didn't know Al Gore had a skiff...


Al Gore invented the skiff.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

SomaliPirate said:


> Al Gore invented the skiff.


He is going to use it to get into the second floor of his massive house on the water when the sea level rises.


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## Padre (Jul 29, 2016)

SomaliPirate said:


> I'm only here because I'm hoping this devolves into the old Hal vs. Flip thread.


I'm here to wait for the Chittum guy to start commenting


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Padre said:


> I'm here to wait for the Chittum guy to start commenting


I sure hope for their sake they can finish the race, otherwise they're going to catch a whole bunch of sh!t. I can already hear the excuses.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

crboggs said:


> I hear you...but I don't think opening this sort of thing to the general public would be safe or manageable. I do, however, think they should open it to builder teams who can meet safety standards and fund support resources.
> 
> There's no reason builders like East Cape, Spear, Beavertail, etc should be denied entry if they wanted to participate.


I disagree with you CR.

There are many activities which are available to the general public that may be dangerous in nature and may not be in their best interest.

Any shade tree mechanic who can adhere to the rules of racing can race a car every Friday and Saturday night. Anyone can jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Etc.

More proof - ANYONE can buy a boat and pilot it out into the open ocean with ZERO training and put the lives of his/her unsuspecting passengers lives at risk. Safety equipment, boating safety classes and such do not start the engine on a boat - the key does and it does not care about the mental capacity of the person turning the key.

This event to me is solely for these egotistical few guys to get some sponsorship to foot the bill to determine which skiff can arrive at point B the fastest.

I agree with Firecat and your second part of your post. Why not make it open to all and raise real money. Limit it in size and grow it in a responsible manner like so many other events.

The other mfg's you listed aren't going because they weren't invited by this group of insiders. Some people really don't like competition.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

How much fuel? Curious.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Surffshr said:


> How much fuel? Curious.


23 gallons at a time, lol.


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

Surffshr said:


> How much fuel? Curious.


4 boats, maybe 6-8 mpg each, 1600 miles, something like 1000 gallons?


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

SomaliPirate said:


> Al Gore invented the skiff.


Maybe, but I heard someone else beat him to the patent lol.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

914 gallons for the boats. 914gal x $2.25 $/gal = $2,056 total fuel.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

How many days?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Surffshr said:


> How many days?


Straight run, so figure they try to average 30mph, maybe 2 days.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

2 days equal $10k for my crews. With the mileage and OT maybe that goes to $15k. So maybe each team sinks $20k into this event?


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

20k worth of expenses, versus how little actually makes it to the charity?


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

All these companies are top notch imo. I’m not gonna beat on them for a little friendly competition and raising some awareness. I think each team has sponsors that donate to cca(or whatever the charity is this yr)for every mile they make it. Yes I think it would be nice if other Florida skiff builders joined in.


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

Man, so much bellyaching over simple fun.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

el9surf said:


> I sure hope for their sake they can finish the race, otherwise they're going to catch a whole bunch of sh!t. I can already hear the excuses.


I’m wondering how both of their egos are going to fit in an 18’ skiff.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

Surffshr said:


> 2 days equal $10k for my crews. With the mileage and OT maybe that goes to $15k. So maybe each team sinks $20k into this event?


Most of the crews are friends, family, and employees. If I had the chance I’d pit for them for free, it’s a cool event. Same thing people do for the Baja races.


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## Jason Cooper (Dec 6, 2016)

eightwt said:


> Is there a specified route or any way you want as long as you get to a fuel spot before empty? Like cutting across the gulf , conditions permitting, rather than following coastline


Team Panga tried doing that last year and broke their boat. Literally.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Man I'm pumped I'd like to compete. Yea my "97 boat and a 2005 motor with a 21 gallon tank
A...never mind


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

To be fair, the Panga that they tried to "race" was like a 10 year old hull they bought used. I think they were trying to prove a point and it backfired.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

jimsmicro said:


> To be fair, the Panga that they tried to "race" was like a 10 year old hull they bought used. I think they were trying to prove a point and it backfired.


To be fair on top of that, some of the photos looked like it might have struck something, rather then a hull failure.

Interesting that they are using a 60hp instead of maxing out the limit like the others. I wonder if they calculated fuel burn vs speed...... if they have to make a few less pit stops then losing 2-3 mph might not be an issue.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I don't think other builders were denied entry. One of the East Cape guys posted online that East Cape didn't enter by choice although they are looking at an entry next year.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

In years past several other builders asked to join, but were denied. Go to their page, I'm sure the comments are still there. I don't know about now, as they received a backlash because of it. It may have left a bad taste in some mouths, and we might not see those guys come.

I was going to try and get a group together from bateau.com to compete, but we were denied entry. They said they only wanted production builders of a certain size.


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## Alex Fernandez (Aug 16, 2017)

Want to make MS headlines? Nothing stopping anyone form showing up at the starting line that morning and just going for it alongside the other boats. Im sure your you'll pick up a few sponsors along the way and major bragging rights!! Follow the same rules and you just show up at the Starting line, Gilberts and the fancy gun club in GA. Caffeine, Ibuprofen and Gasoline is all you need!! "The Rouge Skiff Challenge"


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

How about the deckboat challenge? Team Hurricane and Team Tahoe duke it out to see who can make it around the peninsula the fastest while overloaded by at least two people and whoever is at the helm must be able to blow at least a .08 BAC at all times. You get a time bonus if you can keep Florida Georgia Line playing at no less than 80dB at all times during the run.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Any of you sob's know where the starting line is?


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

makin moves said:


> View attachment 25713
> Any of you sob's know where the starting line is?


The poling platform on that boat looks a bit high.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

jhreels said:


> The poling platform on that boat looks a bit high.


We like it like that! It helps to see fish when we burn down shorelines blowing out redfish.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Noticed that there were tiller boats last year. Was that to try to minimize possible problems or something else? Seems it would get tiring, but maybe as a team not that bad.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

As a strategy it's smart for the race. Less weight, more speed, less fuel burn, less mechanics. But more taxing on the operators as mentioned, especially in rougher seas.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

I don't think it's any massive advantage personally. I'd much prefer the ease of cruising in a center console setup. I think they did it to prove a point.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Massive no, and you are probably right, but if it got them just 0.1mph extra by dropping the 50lbs or so, well over a 1600 mIle race it adds up.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Well looks like it’s underway. Chittum looks to be taking gulf right away where HB and panga are sticking inside. At least that’s what I can see from the track.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

Someone on rt 98. Gotta be rough on the prop and hull.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

That fancy shock-ride seat must be working pretty well, Yellowfin is cutting across way out, looks like they are several miles off the beach already...

I think watching each team's strategy play out is pretty interesting.


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

Unless YF is running a 100 gallon tank I am pretty sure they are gonig to run out of gas. Is there anything in the rules that states you have to get gas from land? What is to stop them from refueling from a YF 42 100 miles offshore.


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

I was unaware of team saltwater sportsman...?


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

csnaspuck said:


> Unless YF is running a 100 gallon tank I am pretty sure they are gonig to run out of gas. Is there anything in the rules that states you have to get gas from land? What is to stop them from refueling from a YF 42 100 miles offshore.


I think they may have fueled up near Destin, or maybe their tracker is acting up. It looked like they were stopped there this morning when all the other boats were running. From there to St Joseph Bay looks like about 75-80 miles. Not sure the conditions in the Gulf right now, but they might be able to make it on one tank if the conditions were right.

I think it's interesting how Chittum tried running the beach, but it looks like they aren't able to run as quickly as Hells Bay and Panga running inside. I wonder if they will switch their strategy up eventually, or stick with it in rougher waters.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

bryson said:


> I think it's interesting how Chittum tried running the beach, but it looks like they aren't able to run as quickly as Hells Bay and Panga running inside. I wonder if they will switch their strategy up eventually, or stick with it in rougher waters.


Chittum posted on Instagram "Should have stayed on the inside"


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

KurtActual said:


> Chittum posted on Instagram "Should have stayed on the inside"


"Nah you got it"

LOL


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Looks like they're pulled up at pirates cove in St Andrew's right now. I can tell you that beach and pass can get nasty when wind is bucking the current. I got several good solid beat downs during all last Tarpon season, not far to the East of there.

Edit: back going again, headed inside through the bay.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Yellowfin stopped tracking on my computer. This happen for anyone else?


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## g8rfly (Oct 9, 2011)

Godzuki86 said:


> Yellowfin stopped tracking on my computer. This happen for anyone else?


yes same.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

g8rfly said:


> yes same.


Yeah, I think their tracker has been fairly intermittent the whole time.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

g8rfly said:


> yes same.


yep


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Same stuff as last year. As discussed it not a glowing endorsement for me to buy a Spot tracker.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

A couple hundred thousand in skiffs and sponsorship and every year the same crap GPS trackers. Crazy.


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## AMiller (Mar 12, 2018)

I kind of wish this event was bigger. I'd love to be able to watch some live streaming from the different boats. If there were about a dozen competitors all from different boat companies that would probably generate more interest and they could have some live streaming so you could follow your favorite boat thru areas of interest.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Why are they carrying a push pol


firecat1981 said:


> Same stuff as last year. As discussed it not a glowing endorsement for me to buy a Spot tracker.


Spot Tracker, maybe they named it that cause it only tracks you in certain spots? lol


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## johnboy114 (Jan 24, 2008)

spot trackers must suck. Sure am glad I have a garmin delorme inreach. last year hells bay had a live feed, wonder why they didn't this year??


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> Why are they carrying a push pol


Haha I noticed that too -- I mentioned something about it on their instagram; I wonder if they will explain.

In all fairness, I like having mine on board too in case I make a boneheaded move in an area I don't know. I know I've poled off at least one sandbar that I didn't know was there. If I didn't have the pole with me, it would have been a much wetter experience...


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

johnboy114 said:


> spot trackers must suck. Sure am glad I have a garmin delorme inreach. last year hells bay had a live feed, wonder why they didn't this year??


they were live on facebook a little bit ago


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

bryson said:


> Haha I noticed that too -- I mentioned something about it on their instagram; I wonder if they will explain.
> 
> In all fairness, I like having mine on board too in case I make a boneheaded move in an area I don't know. I know I've poled off at least one sandbar that I didn't know was there. If I didn't have the pole with me, it would have been a much wetter experience...


Weird, I thought I deleted that..must have carried over from last post.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

I still don’t know why no one has stepped up with a live-action cam to stream the whole thing. I know I would watch it all day. I want to see the suspension seats on the yellowfin work


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

Looks like Panga is going to make a big cut, while HB continues to run the most protected waters. Will be funny to see Yellowfin's GPS tracker all of a sudden pick up, especially if they're in a competitive location


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

Yellowfin just pinged and their are about 3 km ahead of panga


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

wonder if Chittum crosses the bay...


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

Looks like decent but not great conditions to cut across:

GMZ730-755-765-775-032030-
Apalachee Bay or Coastal Waters From Keaton Beach to Ochlockonee
River FL out to 20 Nm-
Coastal Waters From Ochlockonee River to Apalachicola Fl out to
20 Nm-
Coastal waters from Suwannee River to Keaton Beach FL out 20 NM-
Waters from Suwannee River to Apalachicola FL from 20 to 60 NM-
1020 AM EDT Tue Apr 3 2018

*REST OF TODAY*
South winds 5 to 10 knots. Seas 1 to 2 feet. Dominant
period 3 seconds. Protected waters mostly smooth. Patchy fog in
the morning.

*TONIGHT*
Southwest winds 10 knots. Seas 1 to 2 feet.
Dominant period 4 seconds. Protected waters a light chop. Slight
chance of rain after midnight.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I think all of the skiffs are capable of crossing nasty water -- it just becomes a fuel/speed issue, trying to figure out which route is faster over the course of the entire race.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

You guys think Panga will gain an edge in the open water?


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

zthomas said:


> Looks like decent but not great conditions to cut across:
> 
> GMZ730-755-765-775-032030-
> Apalachee Bay or Coastal Waters From Keaton Beach to Ochlockonee
> ...


3-4 second wave period makes for a bumpy ride


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## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

looks like panga and yellowfin are taking BIG cut across bay, hells bay is also taking smaller cut.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Fishshoot said:


> looks like panga and yellowfin are taking BIG cut across bay, hells bay is also taking smaller cut.


Looks like Chittum might split the difference between them. I feel like I'm watching one of those turtle races or something...


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

KurtActual said:


> Chittum posted on Instagram "Should have stayed on the inside"



No water the bad ass Chittum can't handle!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Chittum dropped off tracker. I bet they don't finish.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

sjrobin said:


> Chittum dropped off tracker. I bet they don't finish.


On my computer it looks like they're closing the gap..
with Panga now ahead of YF, and HB still with a slight lead. Then again these trackers aren't exactly reliable.


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## AMiller (Mar 12, 2018)

LowHydrogen said:


> You guys think Panga will gain an edge in the open water?


That Panga is currently extending its lead on that Yellowfin right now. Kind of funny.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Yellowfin hasn't pinged for 30 min. Although I think the Panga will shine in rougher water, I don't think they are actually pulling away.

If you click on the little icon (that looks like a burger to me for some reason), you can see the coordinates, plus the time of the last ping.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Yeah, time is important for each tracker locate. I was not expecting to be very interested in this event, but I can't help it. 

What's the HB skiff? They're running a side console.


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## AMiller (Mar 12, 2018)

bryson said:


> Yellowfin hasn't pinged for 30 min. Although I think the Panga will shine in rougher water, I don't think they are actually pulling away.
> 
> If you click on the little icon (that looks like a burger to me for some reason), you can see the coordinates, plus the time of the last ping.


yea I take back what I said.


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## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

Chittum seems to be gaining slowly on HB and gaining on Panga and YF. 

Still a lot of race left.


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

It's a shame not being able to see at least speed over ground for each boat. Seems like it wouldn't be that tough in 2018 to provide live SOG, heading, RPM, maybe average SOG for the last hour and for the entire race. Of course video would be great too but more data-intensive. And an accurate track line from beginning to end -- not just the last X minutes. Don't mean to pile on SPOT or other sponsors who are surely doing their best, but have to say it would be a hell of a lot more interesting with more details to look at.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

The Florida Sportsman rig has almost made it through the most treacherous leg of the whole race, Dixie Co. baby!


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

zthomas said:


> It's a shame not being able to see at least speed over ground for each boat. Seems like it wouldn't be that tough in 2018 to provide live SOG, heading, RPM, maybe average SOG for the last hour and for the entire race. Of course video would be great too but more data-intensive. And an accurate track line from beginning to end -- not just the last X minutes. Don't mean to pile on SPOT or other sponsors who are surely doing their best, but have to say it would be a hell of a lot more interesting with more details to look at.


I wholeheartedly agree. The technology is out there, and well established. There's ZERO reason why we couldn't have live feed of the data you mentioned.


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

I'm mildly embarrassed to admit I'm sitting here at work eyeballing the distance between the little triangles that are 5 minutes apart to see if I can tell whether one boat is running significantly faster than another.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

Next year they should up the HP limit to 90, and put a camera man on each boat like the Bassmaster Elite events.


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

Last year they ran 2 GPS systems on each boat and one of them did show the speed but it much more intermittent than the Spot so far the Spot does seem to be keeping better tracking.


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Did Chittum end up going with the Honda? This skiff junkie needs build details.


----------



## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

No they went yamaha and decided at the last minute against the honda....


----------



## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

I think one of the Yellowfin guys dropped their hat in the water...

Wonder what this is about? Maybe a penalty or something.


----------



## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

jhreels said:


> I think one of the Yellowfin guys dropped their hat in the water...
> 
> Wonder what this is about? Maybe a penalty or something.
> 
> View attachment 25982


They're approaching God's country now, may have spotted a square grouper. Also HB pit crew is on their game! In and out of CK in no time. Yeah, I'm not getting much done at work today either..


----------



## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Why did Panga only run a 60? I think their 18' is rated for a 90 or 115 isn't it?


----------



## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

jhreels said:


> I think one of the Yellowfin guys dropped their hat in the water...
> 
> Wonder what this is about? Maybe a penalty or something.


They may have had to turn around, but I'm guessing the "OK" function was just a little delayed vs. the automated ping that normally goes out.


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

jhreels said:


> I think one of the Yellowfin guys dropped their hat in the water...
> 
> Wonder what this is about? Maybe a penalty or something.
> 
> View attachment 25982


 Thought that last skiff might have needed a tow or something..


----------



## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

It was much more interesting last year because of the crappy weather.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

LowHydrogen said:


> Why did Panga only run a 60? I think their 18' is rated for a 90 or 115 isn't it?


Max hp for the challenge is 70hp, maybe the weight difference? Going from a 60 to 70 is I think another 85lbs or so.


----------



## lsunoe (Dec 5, 2016)

Chittum is getting smoked


----------



## g8rfly (Oct 9, 2011)

makin moves said:


> It was much more interesting last year because of the crappy weather.


Should get pretty sporty on Wednesday up in NE florida with a Nor'easter forecasted to blow in on the coast. Last year several of them ran the beach- the inland route is much slower. Hope the teams make safe decisions!


----------



## g8rfly (Oct 9, 2011)

Does anyone know if any of the boats are running FMT chips?


----------



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

LowHydrogen said:


> Why did Panga only run a 60? I think their 18' is rated for a 90 or 115 isn't it?


I actually think they are running a Suzuki 70hp.


----------



## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

lsunoe said:


> Chittum is getting smoked


For a minute it looked like they were catching up, not so much now.


----------



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

https://instagram.com/p/BS9nV5wAxDJ/

Post from Chittum last year talking smack and now that they are in the race they’re last. Kinda funny.


----------



## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Interesting that HB fueled up at the boat ramp by the fishing pier at Cedar Key, but Yellowfin went all the way into the Cedar Key Marina, and Panga appears to have just cruised on by...


----------



## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

Str8-Six said:


> View attachment 25983
> https://instagram.com/p/BS9nV5wAxDJ/
> 
> Post from Chittum last year talking smack and now that they are in the race they’re last. Kinda funny.


I think they double screwed themselves going outside then going back inside! Still a lot of water left though.


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Str8-Six said:


> View attachment 25983
> https://instagram.com/p/BS9nV5wAxDJ/
> 
> Post from Chittum last year talking smack and now that they are in the race they’re last. Kinda funny.


In my book they are the only ones that have anything to lose from this event because of their constant shit talking. It will come full circle at some point. There's that saying about reaping what you sow. I hope the whole field kicks the piss out of them.


----------



## MooreMiller (Sep 10, 2016)

KurtActual said:


> Next year they should up the HP limit to 90, and put a camera man on each boat like the Bassmaster Elite events.


175. We’ve gotta test the limits.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

bryson said:


> Interesting that HB fueled up at the boat ramp by the fishing pier at Cedar Key, but Yellowfin went all the way into the Cedar Key Marina, and Panga appears to have just cruised on by...


That's what I was saying before. Maybe they took the 60hp instead of the 70hp because it burns less fuel. Goes a bit slower, but less stops. If they stick to open waters where that boat shines the strategy might work well.


----------



## Godzuki86 (Nov 30, 2013)

MooreMiller said:


> 175. We’ve gotta test the limits.


400 or I don’t watch.


----------



## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Fishshoot said:


> I think they double screwed themselves going outside then going back inside! Still a lot of water left though.


Maybe they should have hired *Flip* to drive? 
Sorry it popped in my head, and I couldn't help myself. Their boats are pretty.


----------



## Rick_Hem (Mar 5, 2018)

Cheering for Chittum to bring up the rear. Cant wait to hear all his bullsh.. excuses after. Probably going to be as hard to watch that as that TX “guide” KC who is cheering on team chittum on IG.


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Nice move by Yellowfin. Panga definitely employing the “shortest distance is a straight line” strategy.


----------



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

not2shabby said:


> Yeah, time is important for each tracker locate. I was not expecting to be very interested in this event, but I can't help it.
> 
> What's the HB skiff? They're running a side console.


Biscayne. Skiff made for shallow open water fishing. Not sure why Chris Peterson did not use this model the last two skiff challenges. He may have built this Biscayne with a little less weight for the 70 HP Yamaha. The Chittum skiff has several liabilities for this type of race.


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

sjrobin said:


> Biscayne. Skiff made for shallow open water fishing. Not sure why Chris Peterson did not use this model the last two skiff challenges. He may have built this Biscayne with a little less weight for the 70 HP Yamaha. The Chittum skiff has several liabilities for this type of race.


They ran a Biscayne last year as well. I got an up close look at it last year while picking up my skiff.


----------



## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

My bad, Peterson has used the Biscayne in three skiff challenges.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

I find the challenge, and this forum entertaining for different reasons, many of which have already been stated above. 

I do, however, think this challenge could be better by leveling the playing field a bit more with better rules and by also allowing more participants to raise more money/awareness - that's what it's all about. 

Ideas for improvement:

1) The tracking system is janky as fuck...they need a better one; current speed/average speed/fuel flow would be cool. Maybe full video link to cockpit footage would be too much to ask, but I think it would be pretty cool to see lifestream feed from each boat. 
2) I think teams should be able to stop where/and when they need to, not at specified locations, so long as they travel past certain waypoints; this adds a bit more gamesmanship and tactics to it all
3) I would like to see something along the lines of capping weight added to the boat; i.e. you are authorized XXX Lbs of fuel/equipment (lights/FLIR/etc) on top of the empty weight of the boat; again, adding more gamesmanship...do we want the extra gallon of fuel, or do we want the FLIRs on board? (I didn't like how HB was getting light bars added at one of the stops - i think you need to start/end carry everything you want on your skiff, including push pole, the entire journey...only stopping for fuel/food)
4) some way that would incentivize or at least bring some strategy to running with a 50HP for fuel burn vs 70HP for speed; i.e. "you can only make X fuel stops the entire journey" or have only set places where they can stop for fuel, so guys have to weigh whether to bypass certain ones and go closer to max range fuel flow or go fast and stop more. 
5) Maybe overzealous, but I think they should have to catch and leader a bonefish, tarpon, or permit "in or around one of the florida keys" in order to proceed
6) I think the finish line would be somewhere where they need to put the motor up and have to pole the boat 3 miles (I don't like how HB doesn't even have a cap on their tower or yellowfin without the platform entirely)


I'm sure some clowns on here are going to tear my ideas apart...that's fine, but i ask if you do so you add to the discussion by putting forth a better idea, not simply bashing mine. Don't waste your time with the later, I'm just spit balling anyway. 

I'd like to do this someday with my own skiff, I think it would be a blast. I'm sure they could do an "open" event which would raise a lot more money than just 4 skiffs from top-tier manufacturers.


----------



## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

lsunoe said:


> Chittum is getting smoked


Did they start heading west by accident?


----------



## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

@tgjohnso I agree, to make it more challenging, they should have to fish and pole. I still think the whole jankiness of the tracking system could be band-aided by upping HP limits and requiring a camera man on the boat. Live feed from each boat FTW. Imagine seeing the realization in real time that taking the wrong route might have cost Chittum any shot at a win.


----------



## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

KurtActual said:


> @tgjohnso I agree, to make it more challenging, they should have to fish and pole. I still think the whole jankiness of the tracking system could be band-aided by upping HP limits and requiring a camera man on the boat. Live feed from each boat FTW. Imagine seeing the realization in real time that taking the wrong route might have cost Chittum any shot at a win.


upping the hp might add to the excitement factor but kinda defeats the purpose of it being a skiff challenge..live feeds from each boat would be sweet though, surely some of these guys could swing the 3g setup to keep them connected with a set a gopro up on a 3 axis gimbal somewhere on the boat, surely not rocket science..

the live feeds coming from HB are fun but impossible to watch for more than 30 seconds at a time before my eyes start bouncing around lol


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

KurtActual said:


> @tgjohnso I agree, to make it more challenging, they should have to fish and pole. I still think the whole jankiness of the tracking system could be band-aided by upping HP limits and requiring a camera man on the boat. Live feed from each boat FTW. Imagine seeing the realization in real time that taking the wrong route might have cost Chittum any shot at a win.


I disagree with this. You guys are assuming every skiff made is a poling skiff, that's just not true. Some skiffs are designed for bigger waters and bays, like the panga, so they would be at a disadvantage. I also don't agree with the fishing, because the guys who live and build in that area, say the keys, would have a major advantage, versus a builder from north florida, or if they ever open it to different states. Weather and knowledge could have a team never catch a fish. 
I also disagree with upping the HP limit, if it's above 70hp then it's just a boat race, not a skiff challenge anymore. 
The tracking system is junk, there is no denying that. They need to fix it, but there is no point to having a cameraman on the boat when 2 gopro's could do the same job for less the 3lbs.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Also those fancy new seats must be slowing down YF, how did HB pull so many miles ahead already.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

firecat1981 said:


> Also those fancy new seats must be slowing down YF, how did HB pull so many miles ahead already.


YF's tracker hasn't updated since 7:43am


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

321nole said:


> YF's tracker hasn't updated since 7:43am


dang, Panga's tracker is running smoother than babies ass while the Yellowfin's doesn't seem to work barely at all.


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## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

YF pinged just a second ago...not far behind HB who are now at the mandatory stop in Key Largo

Panga closing in on Marathon and Chittum hasnt pinged since 7:45


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

George should just be glad Eastcape isn't in the Challenge, being in 4th place is better than 5th.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Savage^^


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Chittum is 100 miles behind dead last. I don't know why that is so humorous.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

I wonder if Chittum is still going to raffle off the boat for $200/ticket?



George Sawley said:


> On another note, we are going to build a skiff just for the Florida Skiff Challenge race. We will raffle off the skiff for $200 a ticket.


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## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

sjrobin said:


> The Chittum skiff has several liabilities for this type of race.


It has 1 liability - George Marlin Man Sawley writing fishy chat room checks his butt can't cash.


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## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

I really wish we could see the whole track -- I feel like that would take almost no extra effort to program on the little widget that shows us the last several minutes.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Closing the gap? They just pinged 3 minutes ago and must be atleast 25km apart. All that matters is who's coming in last right now, ey boys? Lol


----------



## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

How dicey will traffic be running by Miami and the other larger cities? (Never been there myself)


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Does this prove that lighter is not always better?


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

Str8-Six said:


> Does this prove that lighter is not always better?


It is most definitely not always better, you want some hull weight when it gets snotty. To be honest I expected the Chittum to be one of the faster boats, based on it being a light hull and the BS videos and hype surrounded by it. I am more impressed with the Yellowfin and how it is dead on the heels of the Biscayne.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

Not that Chittum needs anyone coming to their defense, they took a bad line and tried to run the beach in the first few hours of the race.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

I would say this race is more about the captains than the actual boats so I am not suprised that chittum is bringing up the rear.


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## Rick_Hem (Mar 5, 2018)

Speaking of lighter and getting beat right out of the gate, could you imagine how far back they would be if the weather was like last year? Wow. Certainly wouldnt be signing up for a 70k ass whipping back and forth to the Marquesas or around biscayne bay


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## csnaspuck (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree that Chittom has lacked knowledge unlike the teams that have ran the past couple year.


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

Backcountry 16 said:


> I would say this race is more about the captains than the actual boats so I am not suprised that chittum is bringing up the rear.


I was just thinking this, I have serious doubts that anyone here could jump in a stock car and match the track times of a Kasey Kane or even a Danica Patrick, same applies for the captains running this challenge. I' sure the Chittum wasted some time doing 360's in front of Cedar Key marina.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

csnaspuck said:


> I agree that Chittom has lacked knowledge unlike the teams that have ran the past couple year.


How long did they have to plan their route?


----------



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

KurtActual said:


> Not that Chittum needs anyone coming to their defense, they took a bad line and tried to run the beach in the first few hours of the race.


That will be the excuse. Truth is that this year with the weather, is a cake walk compared to last year. Captains had plenty of time to prep routes/scenarios and with all the tech they have on their boat their is no excuse. I put this more on the boat.. maybe the Biscayne is the best riding boat out of the 4 and Chittum is the worst.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

nativejax said:


> Oh for as long as they have been shooting their mouth off about the Challenge, so I am thinking around 2 years.


My point exactly. I'm not interested in excuses of wrong route, or we don't have the experience to know we should have gone inside vs outside.... With 2 years of planning and the most advanced boat ever made I expected a lot more from them. Instead they are losing to panga which is pretty freaking funny.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Sad part for them is they could have had support from everyone had they just kept their mouth shut and acted like decent people.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Did anybody make the poor choice to spend time reading the comments on the Instagram post previously provided in this thread? The pride of team Chittum will certainly be their greatest liability. 

Choosing the wrong route out of the gate set them back, and probably took away a chance at victory, but it’s definitely not the sole reason they’re this far behind.


----------



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

el9surf said:


> My point exactly. I'm not interested in excuses of wrong route, or we don't have the experience to know we should have gone inside vs outside.... With 2 years of planning and the most advanced boat ever made I expected a lot more from them. Instead they are losing to panga which is pretty freaking funny.


It’s not funny....


----------



## Fishshoot (Oct 26, 2017)

bryson said:


> I really wish we could see the whole track -- I feel like that would take almost no extra effort to program on the little widget that shows us the last several minutes.


I agree wholeheartedly! I would really like to see each boats whole track. I think Team Hells Bay smoked everybody on logistics and planning, although I really like Yellowfin refueling at St George island instead of going into Lanark. IMO all these are great boats for slightly different uses, I really like looking at their strategies.


----------



## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

On yellow fins fb page the said in the beginning of the race they had a fuel issue. They posted a video of them using the camera mount pole as a paddle to get them to shore. If not for that I would guess they would be way out front.


----------



## HPXFLY (Aug 27, 2015)

Chittum should have just road next to HB the whole trip. If their boat is truly faster, could have just opened it up the last 50 miles and walked away from HB. There would have been no route planning excuse then....


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Str8-Six said:


> Does this prove that lighter is not always better?


The only way it would is if they weighed the skiffs prior to launch. Which would be interesting being some have suggested one or more of these boats may have been reinforced for the beating, as opposed to being a stock boat like they are supposed to be.


----------



## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

makin moves said:


> On yellow fins fb page the said in the beginning of the race they had a fuel issue. They posted a video of them using the camera mount pole as a paddle to get them to shore. If not for that I would guess they would be way out front.


Didn't the same thing happen to them last year?


----------



## Barbs_deep (Jul 4, 2010)

KurtActual said:


> Not that Chittum needs anyone coming to their defense, they took a bad line and tried to run the beach in the first few hours of the race.


I’d make excuses, quit and go to ER too if I was 100 miles behind the last place boat.


----------



## SCFLY (Sep 20, 2016)

firecat1981 said:


> Didn't the same thing happen to them last year?


@makin moves The video they posted on their facebook is reshared from 2016, its not a video from this year.


----------



## bryson (Jun 22, 2015)

Barbs_deep said:


> I’d make excuses, quit and go to ER too if I was 100 miles behind the last place boat.


I don't think they are quite that far back. Looks like about 30 mi behind Panga right now, maybe close to 100 miles behind HB.

I noticed YF did a prop change at one of the stops; I wonder what the reason was --- maybe they hit something, or maybe to switch things up for different conditions?


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Even Chittum reps are as obnoxious as the Chittum employees. 



> Hells Bay may make a great boat and Hal Chittum started that company as well. Last or first, Team Chittum


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

bryson said:


> I don't think they are quite that far back. Looks like about 30 mi behind Panga right now, maybe close to 100 miles behind HB.
> 
> I noticed YF did a prop change at one of the stops; I wonder what the reason was --- maybe they hit something, or maybe to switch things up for different conditions?


Prop change for Following Seas- more speed maybe... or damaged prop. Good observation.
It will be interesting to see if they can beat the front. Prolly gonna get very sporty & Reckon the participants are all tired as hell and wanting to get off those skiffs asap.


----------



## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

Maybe chittum should have contacted Mr Pallot to drive the skiff for him maybe he would be in first place.


----------



## JRH (Mar 18, 2007)

csnaspuck said:


> I agree that Chittom has lacked knowledge unlike the teams that have ran the past couple year.



Unfortunately for George Marlin Man Sawley, he doesn't get to use that as an excuse. Sawley is the worlds greatest boat captain in the entire universe (just ask him). He has captained sport fishing yachts all over the world in the worst of conditions and unknown foreign locations. This "race" should be a cake walk for him while Hal sleeps comfortably in the cockpit of the greatest most bestest skiff ever built. This race and his competition are actually beneath him and his set of captain skills.


----------



## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

#bestskiffchallengeever


----------



## 321nole (Jan 11, 2016)

this thread is going to be a riot over the next few days


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

jmrodandgun said:


> Even Chittum reps are as obnoxious as the Chittum employees.


So they are trying to take credit for HB's success now while they are dead last. Seems about part for the course.


----------



## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

If conservation is the goal Chittum should just put it on the trailer and call it a day. They are so far out of it all they are doing is burning fuel at this point.


----------



## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

Question for you fellow ML guys:

Do they take the Shotgun, run fast along the east side, and then come back to the ICW north of Snapper Cut? Or stay in the ICW and plow through the slow zone?

If you know where you're going, there's no question the east route is faster even though it's quite a bit longer. But if you don't know the area, it's not hard to put it on a sandbar or even oysters.

Wonder if they're all running FMT?


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Chittum looks to be going pretty well on the inside. They passed the Panga. Cannot imagine the beating they took outside, HA! T-Storms popping up around Daytona..


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> Even Chittum reps are as obnoxious as the Chittum employees.


If skiffs ran on hot air and hubris, Chittum would have been airborne half the race and finished yesterday.


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Team Yellowfin had trim issues. Bummer.


----------



## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Did y’all see this video on the HB Instagram story? Talking about airborne....


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

not2shabby said:


> Did y’all see this video on the HB Instagram story? Talking about airborne....
> 
> View attachment 26062


Sick Right!


----------



## Rick_Hem (Mar 5, 2018)

jmrodandgun said:


> Even Chittum reps are as obnoxious as the Chittum employees.


Yea apparently that “rep” bailed on her IG account. Guess its all just too much... guess all the bros will have to find a new one to fawn over


----------



## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Rick_Hem said:


> Yea apparently that “rep” bailed on her IG account. Guess its all just too much... guess all the bros will have to find a new one to fawn over


Wow. The account was deleted. It must have been hit pretty hard.


----------



## IRLyRiser (Feb 14, 2007)

I just saw the biscayne go by the fort in st Augustine. They’ll be done by midnight.


----------



## jamesbe386 (Sep 6, 2017)

Interception.... Ormond Beach... Smoked em.

I've got a sweet 28 sec video but the site wont let me post. Too long maybe..?


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

Hal Chittum had to step out due to a kidney stone at Key West. George Sawley with his new crewman is soldiering on toward the goal at Cabin Bluff -
Bantz aside- it is for a good cause and they did not quit. Friend is going through the kidney stone thing and it sucks. Hope they all complete the challenge.


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

So how do you follow it on the net?
I don't care who wins but just thought it might be fun to watch. Its been fun reading this thread
What's all the Chitum hate for?


----------



## jamesbe386 (Sep 6, 2017)

I hope they finish. much respect,I checked the map at 3 am when I got up for work. in the middle of the gulf in between naples and key west... Just to complete this is bad ass.


----------



## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

permitchaser said:


> So how do you follow it on the net?
> I don't care who wins but just thought it might be fun to watch. Its been fun reading this thread
> What's all the Chitum hate for?


http://Swsports.mn/ai3lcL
https://www.hellsbayboatworks.com/skiffchallenge/

George likes kicking the bantz- gets rowdy. I think its funny.


----------



## Spike.985 (Apr 13, 2016)

permitchaser said:


> So how do you follow it on the net?
> I don't care who wins but just thought it might be fun to watch. Its been fun reading this thread
> What's all the Chitum hate for?


Poetic justice.


----------



## jamesbe386 (Sep 6, 2017)

saltwatersportsman.com has the gps map pinging on them under skiff challenge. that's how we intercepted in Ormond.

I don't get the hate. I guess people think he' arrogant. I think as a small business owner you need to be confident and believe in / push your product / deal with the haters.. hands down they are beautiful bad ass skiffs. Like it or not.They will be competitive next year.


----------



## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

jamesbe386 said:


> saltwatersportsman.com has the gps map pinging on them under skiff challenge. that's how we intercepted in Ormond.
> 
> I don't get the hate. I guess people think he' arrogant. I think as a small business owner you need to be confident and believe in / push your product / deal with the haters.. hands down they are beautiful bad ass skiffs. Like it or not.They will be competitive next year.


Clearly you missed all the shit talking George Sawley has done on here and instagram. You can be confident but he's an ass.


----------



## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

zthomas said:


> Question for you fellow ML guys:
> 
> Do they take the Shotgun, run fast along the east side, and then come back to the ICW north of Snapper Cut? Or stay in the ICW and plow through the slow zone?
> 
> ...


Shotgun and east side. Guessing hells bay has an advantage here as it is their home waters. Aside from that bend prior to government cut I think most of them could run and figure it out with today's technology.


----------



## jamesbe386 (Sep 6, 2017)

mtoddsolomon said:


> Clearly you missed all the shit talking George Sawley has done on here and instagram. You can be confident but he's an ass.


lol.. I did miss all that but drama but.. he's an entrepreneur. they're all asses. His skiffs are still works of art and strait knar knar.

Its like a moto GP bike, they're all nasty. but you have to be nasty to get nasty. (better coarse would of yielded better results. they kind of blew it in the panhandle).


----------



## jamesbe386 (Sep 6, 2017)

jlindsley said:


> Shotgun and east side. Guessing hells bay has an advantage here as it is their home waters. Aside from that bend prior to government cut I think most of them could run and figure it out with today's technology.


I haven't heard someone call it government cut for 20 years. only shipyard canal. cudos to you


----------



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

jamesbe386 said:


> saltwatersportsman.com has the gps map pinging on them under skiff challenge. that's how we intercepted in Ormond.
> 
> I don't get the hate. I guess people think he' arrogant. I think as a small business owner you need to be confident and believe in / push your product / deal with the haters.. hands down they are beautiful bad ass skiffs. Like it or not.They will be competitive next year.


I don't think the consensus here is that he's arrogant, it's much worse. It's one thing to be confident and still show some class. That quality is tolerable. It's another to go way out of your way to be a giant a$$hole towards others by using every social media outlet as your platform. Talking sh!t about everyone elses product in an attempt to better your own brand has been their marketing approach and it has turned a lot of people off.


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## sickz284u (Mar 8, 2012)

Maybe if Chris jumps up on the poling platform and poles the last 50 miles in that biscayne chittum will have a chance....


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## Jimbo Cross (May 24, 2017)

Seems like Chittums bragging about his boat performance for the skiff challenge is about as reliable as East Capes claims to the draft of their skiffs. But that's none of my business.......


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Chittum is a good marketer, Chris Morejohn is a good designer and builder, Flip Pallot is a great flats fisherman that knows(knew) what an ideal poling skiff needed to be effective and robust. These three men and the people they hired to build Hells Bay Boatworks were the perfect example of a great business team that is very rare in any small business. No single one of them could have been as successful. Chris Peterson was intelligent enough to stay with the the basic designs and incrementally improve the brand and maintain quality of the builds. They should know better, but Chittum and Sawley have discovered how difficult it is to design and build a simple, robust skiff.


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

It’s official,team Hells Bay won!


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## JDRProductions (Apr 9, 2017)

Looks like HB just finished. Mad props to team HB. They led from the very start and smoked their competition. I checked the map last night as all teams shot straight south from Tampa to Key West. My first thought was: holy crap they’re out of their minds. Crossing that section in an 18ft skiff takes some serious cojones...what a feat for all these captains to do that at night. Balls out! As a proud Beavertail owner and general microskiff enthusiast, I sure hope all the other top tier technical poling skiff builders enter next year (also it would be nice to see a poling course, half day tarpon fishing while they’re in the keys, and skinny draft test added to make it more realistic). All in all, HB, Yellowfin, Panga, and Chittum deserve a LOT of respect for 1,500 mi in a skiff given some gnarly blue-water crossings. Sounds like an adventure and shit show all in one, and these teams all deserve a ton of respect for competing. Here’s to the great cause they’re supporting! #CaptainsForCleanWater. Congrats to all these salty dudes!!!


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Take fourteen minutes, learn, and vote the environment.


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## wardicus (Jun 3, 2013)

Am the only one that thinks Chittum skiffs arent gorgeous? I just don’t see it. And I second that this would be even better if it was supported by more builders . So many options in the skiff world , be great to see them compete and help the cause.


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## mtoddsolomon (Mar 25, 2015)

Jimbo Cross said:


> Seems like Chittums bragging about his boat performance for the skiff challenge is about as reliable as East Capes claims to the draft of their skiffs. But that's none of my business.......


wanna come measure the draft of my skiff?


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

KurtActual said:


> Not that Chittum needs anyone coming to their defense, they took a bad line and tried to run the beach in the first few hours of the race.


We call that nothing but “poor headwork” in the military/aviation world. They made the decision, took the risk, and it bit them in the Butt.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

mtoddsolomon said:


> wanna come measure the draft of my skiff?


Just for a reference number, my skiff drafts about 3” soft and 8 or 9” hard on a good day. Definitely a grower not a shower.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

jmrodandgun said:


> Even Chittum reps are as obnoxious as the Chittum employees.


...their feed has been eerily quiet lately... I wonder why that is.


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## jmercer (Sep 24, 2008)

Interested in opinions of those who have ridden in a Chittum skiff in a stiff chop.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Ultimately...its amusing that they run a "skiff" challenge in large sections of blue water where they're not really differentiating between the qualities that make a "skiff" successful. Make them run inside...make them navigate some poling courses...make them navigate some trolling motor courses...make them navigate some compulsory inlets or passes...make it a true "skiff" challenge that utilizes "skiff" functionality.

But then its a big publicity stunt...so as long as Chittum eats their words, who cares right? *lol*


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## Ruddy Duck LA (Jun 23, 2017)

I suspect tens of people are upset by the ass beating the Chittum folks took in the challenge.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

I was really hoping to see a giant flamewar in this thread. I'm very disappointed in all of you right now.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Ruddy Duck LA said:


> I suspect tens of people are upset by the ass beating the Chittum folks took in the challenge.


That's funny right there


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

jlindsley said:


> Shotgun and east side. Guessing hells bay has an advantage here as it is their home waters. Aside from that bend prior to government cut I think most of them could run and figure it out with today's technology.


I would have thought the same thing. But they went right up the ICW. My folks live a mile or so south of the Edgewater ramp and saw them go by.

On another topic, in all the video clips I've seen of HB in reasonably smooth conditions, they were porpoising pretty good. I guess that must have been the fastest attitude and they just decided to deal with it, but damn you'd think you'd get pretty sick of porpoising after 5 or 6 straight hours and trim it down a bit just to maintain your sanity.


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## KurtActual (Sep 25, 2017)

@zthomas I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

One of the videos that Chittum posted on the first day had them porposing really bad as well, I thought the same thing. There may be an underlying swell that is difficult to see on those poor quality videos.

I noticed on one of the stops yesterday the yellowfin came in missing part of their spray rail.


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## YnR (Feb 16, 2015)

jmercer said:


> Interested in opinions of those who have ridden in a Chittum skiff in a stiff chop.



Fished on one of their first hulls. Didn’t get to pole it, but the ride wasn’t amazing. Rides like a stiff, light hull.


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

el9surf said:


> I noticed on one of the stops yesterday the yellowfin came in missing part of their spray rail.


I noticed that too. Gives you an idea of how rough this race really is.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Congrats to all teams! I am glad everyone finished the race safely, it was definitely for a good cause. Hope to see more teams next year!


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## jlindsley (Nov 24, 2015)

I think one thing is for certain. Everyone will be in shockwave seats next year! Win win for sure but they definitely are not cheap.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

So what was the final tally? Did Chittum come in last?


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Sure seemed more interesting last year. The weather played a bigger factor and some of the sponsors did some give aways to get people involved.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

firecat1981 said:


> So what was the final tally? Did Chittum come in last?


It looks like they did on money raised for the cause. Didn’t even clear $600 from what I just saw.


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## Action Johnson (Feb 4, 2016)

firecat1981 said:


> So what was the final tally? Did Chittum come in last?


they just posted on their instagram claiming 3rd. I was really hoping panga would have stayed in front of them.


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## jhreels (Apr 20, 2017)

The current donation 'race':


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

jhreels said:


> The current donation 'race':
> 
> View attachment 26122


They would raise way more money by just raffling off a skiff.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

The entry should be free and if it's only open to manufacturers then all 4 should be raffled off after.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Action Johnson said:


> they just posted on their instagram claiming 3rd. I was really hoping panga would have stayed in front of them.


Me too, I'm not sure why they went with a 60hp ultimately, but I gotta think it hurt them on the smooth water speeds.


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## ReelFisher (Mar 14, 2017)

firecat1981 said:


> Me too, I'm not sure why they went with a 60hp ultimately, but I gotta think it hurt them on the smooth water speeds.


They ended up switching to an F70 at the last minute because "10 hp could not be sacrificed" haha


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Did they really switch?


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

I think Panga had Suke 70 and Everyone else F70s


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## Tx_Whipray (Sep 4, 2015)

Man, Yellowfin had a rough race. Bad fuel, prop change, bad trim tab, lost part of a spray rail, and still finished 2nd.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Just looked on the sportsman site. It says Panga was running a 60hp Zuke.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

I was going off this.


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## hcft (Dec 10, 2015)

You know I really didn't have an opinion on any of this until late last night. I live in Jax and went to get a cool photo of Hellsbay coming through a pretty big no wake zone (Beach Blvd boat ramp) only to see them go by at 40mph lol.

After that I reached out to a few buddies and it seems like they blew through every no wake zone imaginable.

Seems pretty self important and not at all in good spirited fun if you ask me, but inkow, no one asked me..


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

hcft said:


> You know I really didn't have an opinion on any of this until late last night. I live in Jax and went to get a cool photo of Hellsbay coming through a pretty big no wake zone (Beach Blvd boat ramp) only to see them go by at 40mph lol.
> 
> After that I reached out to a few buddies and it seems like they blew through every no wake zone imaginable.
> 
> Seems pretty self important and not at all in good spirited fun if you ask me, but inkow, no one asked me..


That’s messed up if true. I know what no-wake zone your talking about and it’s not that short. Whole point of race is conservation. Also wouldn’t that be considered cheating? Did you get a picture of this?


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## not2shabby (Sep 14, 2016)

Definitely not ok.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Wonder what HB has to say about this?


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

not2shabby said:


> Did y’all see this video on the HB Instagram story? Talking about airborne....
> 
> View attachment 26062


You can't be causing a wake if your boat is out of the water.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

el9surf said:


> You can't be causing a wake if your boat is out of the water.


Just imagine if Chittum won and was doing that.


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## g8rfly (Oct 9, 2011)

hcft said:


> You know I really didn't have an opinion on any of this until late last night. I live in Jax and went to get a cool photo of Hellsbay coming through a pretty big no wake zone (Beach Blvd boat ramp) only to see them go by at 40mph lol.
> 
> After that I reached out to a few buddies and it seems like they blew through every no wake zone imaginable.
> 
> Seems pretty self important and not at all in good spirited fun if you ask me, but inkow, no one asked me..


I've been wondering about this. Disappointing to hear, especially as noted the event being based on conservation. I'd be curious to know if any of the teams made a conscious effort to follow the laws along the way.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

“Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.”


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## fpflats (Aug 2, 2009)

g8rfly said:


> I'd be curious to know if any of the teams made a conscious effort to follow the laws along the way.


I'd say no, since at least 3 of the boats were totally illegal by operating their skiffs in the open ocean at night without correct nav lights. If you are in the ocean, you must abide by Colregs 72 rules prohibiting nav lights under the gunnel (ie sharkeyes). Don't know where the panga's were. But no need to let facts get in the way of a good story.

I wonder what the sponsors would think if they knew this and there was a collision at night? I think any decent lawyer would have them on the hook as well.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

MariettaMike said:


> “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.”


And cast a stone they did, allegedly. HA!


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Was there any weather? I know I’ve blown some no wakes “seeking safe shelter”.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Depending on how far apart in time they all finished there may be enough evidence to support the fact that none of them followed the no wake rules.


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## Rick88 (Apr 15, 2016)

fpflats said:


> I'd say no, since at least 3 of the boats were totally illegal by operating their skiffs in the open ocean at night without correct nav lights. If you are in the ocean, you must abide by Colregs 72 rules prohibiting nav lights under the gunnel (ie sharkeyes). Don't know where the panga's were. But no need to let facts get in the way of a good story.
> 
> I wonder what the sponsors would think if they knew this and there was a collision at night? I think any decent lawyer would have them on the hook as well.


They are all under 12 meters..... so that wouldn't apply....side nav lights or split port & stbd bow light w stern all around white light is adequate and legal


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Rick88 said:


> They are all under 12 meters..... so that wouldn't apply....side nav lights or split port & stbd bow light w stern all around white light is adequate and legal


I guess 12 meters is 20' in american measures. But I'm not sure on that


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## hcft (Dec 10, 2015)

Str8-Six said:


> That’s messed up if true. I know what no-wake zone your talking about and it’s not that short. Whole point of race is conservation. Also wouldn’t that be considered cheating? Did you get a picture of this?


Ohh it's true haha, really left a slight bad taste in my mouth but it's whatever. I went to the specific section because I knew it was a high traffic area and a big no wake zone. Even at night there can be heavy boat traffic poking in and out because of the two restaurants and big marina. I want to get a long exposure photo of them going by slowly, that didn't happen lol.. So I just got the bridge instead.


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## Rick88 (Apr 15, 2016)

permitchaser said:


> I guess 12 meters is 20' in american measures. But I'm not sure on that


12 meters = 39'4".....


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

ReelFisher said:


> They ended up switching to an F70 at the last minute because "10 hp could not be sacrificed" haha


Haha yeah i was the dude that asked them why they switched from the Honda on their IG feed. Thought it interesting...


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Rick88 said:


> 12 meters = 39'4".....


Dam I was just a little short. Your either from Europe or a scientist


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

permitchaser said:


> I guess 12 meters is 20' in american measures. But I'm not sure on that


OMG I can't believe you actually posted this.....LOL


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Bonecracker said:


> That's funny you brought this up as Harry Spear mentioned this the other day while we were fishing and he is going to enter his new Gold Cup skiff in this event next year. His son Luke and a friend are going to drive and he was going to be doing the back-up/support on land! He was pretty pumped to take on the big guys in the skiff market!!


He needs to enter that Ocra, with all the wind we've been having!


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## Rick88 (Apr 15, 2016)

permitchaser said:


> Dam I was just a little short. Your either from Europe or a scientist


No scientist.. just a captain and the us coast guard deals in meters


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

I noticed that all the boats have "SKIFF CHALLENGE" clearly displayed on both sides of their boats, and I also noticed there is a Florida Skiff Challenge website that clearly identifies this as a fund raising race event. And though it is not a race over land that would definitely require special permits with police escorts to stop traffic or barricades to alter traffic around the start and finish lines. But it is a race that I have to assume all the proper authorities were notified, and participants identified by the badging of their boats.

But even if it wasn't I can't imagine any FWC officer citing a competitor for running in a "No Wake" zone during a posted competition that benefits nature conservation. Especially when there wasn't any other boat traffic out there.

Jus Say'n.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

MariettaMike said:


> I noticed that all the boats have "SKIFF CHALLENGE" clearly displayed on both sides of their boats, and I also noticed there is a Florida Skiff Challenge website that clearly identifies this as a fund raising race event. And though it is not a race over land that would require permits with police escorts to stop traffic or barricades to alter traffic around the start and finish lines, but it is a race that I have to assume all the proper authorities were notified of.
> 
> But even if it wasn't I can't imagine any FWC officer citing a competitor for running in a "No Wake" zone during a posted competition that benefits nature conservation. Especially when there wasn't any other boat traffic out there.
> 
> Jus Say'n.


I disagree they're not above the law just because they're running a challenge the no wake zone is there for a reason ie congested boat traffic damage to the docks or bridges from boat wakes who pays fir them repairs the homeowners and tax payers not any boat builders typical I am better than everyone else attitude that some of these builders have.


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

Don't forget all the manatee zones. How are you preaching conversation when leaving prop marks in an animals back?


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## ranno (Apr 7, 2012)

Just curious to know how many Nay -Sayers on this forum actually contributed to the cause? We have everything from self proclaimed experts in navigation rules to expressions of joy over a 4th place finish.... really ? THE GLADES ARE DYING.Look at how much money was raised for the event. Pretty sad.


Backcountry 16 said:


> I disagree they're not above the law just because they're running a challenge the no wake zone is there for a reason ie congested boat traffic damage to the docks or bridges from boat wakes who pays fir them repairs the homeowners and tax payers not any boat builders typical I am better than everyone else attitude that some of these builders have.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

ranno said:


> Just curious to know how many Nay -Sayers on this forum actually contributed to the cause? We have everything from self proclaimed experts in navigation rules to expressions of joy over a 4th place finish.... really ? THE GLADES ARE DYING.Look at how much money was raised for the event. Pretty sad.


Looks like the raised pennies compared to other types of fun raisers. If just one of the companies raffles off a boat for the money to go toward conservation they would have doubled if not tripple what they raised. Just because people don't donate to this race doesn't mean they don't donate at other times of the year.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Not really a challenge if you can stay inside the whole time and blast through no-wake zones.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

ranno said:


> Just curious to know how many Nay -Sayers on this forum actually contributed to the cause? We have everything from self proclaimed experts in navigation rules to expressions of joy over a 4th place finish.... really ? THE GLADES ARE DYING.Look at how much money was raised for the event. Pretty sad.


Yes the Glades are in very bad shape and this "race" is to increase awareness and raise some much needed funds. However, that does not in anyway shape or form excuse any of the participants from not following navigation rules. I wasn't there so I have no idea if any of them actually went at speed through no wake zones. But if they did shame on them. Its exactly what is wrong with our society today. I don't need to follow such and such a rule. Its doesn't apply to me for whatever bull shit reason they want to toss out there.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

They followed the no wake zone when going through the Clearwater/St.Petersburg area in the middle of the day when all eyes where on them. I guess the didn't feel like anyone would notice at night.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

they need a new marketing director........

a one week lead time on microskiff.....

This is the only place I have heard about the challenge


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

No wake zone....LOL. Come on people.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

K3anderson said:


> No wake zone....LOL. Come on people.


So this is like a Florida skiff version of Cannon Ball Run...


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

ranno said:


> Just curious to know how many Nay -Sayers on this forum actually contributed to the cause? We have everything from self proclaimed experts in navigation rules to expressions of joy over a 4th place finish.... really ? THE GLADES ARE DYING.Look at how much money was raised for the event. Pretty sad.


First you should be aware many of us here donate to organizations that support "the cause", but just not this organization. As far as your navigation comment, well I'm not the sharpest spoon in the draw, but the rules of navigation are fairly clear cut. Every team spent weeks plotting their courses and the MFD's they were using can show the zones too. There's little chance they didn't know.

As far as money raised it's clear not much was. You have to read the fine print on these charitable events. People don't understand what "all proceeds go to the charity" really means. It means that if there is anything left after they pay for the bills they will donate it, not whatever is raised goes to the cause. After weeks of promoting, driving, hotel rooms for multiple guys, food stypens.... there is usually less then 10% of the take left. Look it up there are plenty of sites that track these things.

Do the glades need help, absolutely, all our waterways need better protection and management. I doubt anyone would say otherwise, but burning a few thousand gallons of fuel in the name of environmental protection, well..... Let's call this what it is. It's a cool little event for those of us into these boats, that is designed to promote said boats, that might have some charity on the back end.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

ranno said:


> Just curious to know how many Nay -Sayers on this forum actually contributed to the cause? We have everything from self proclaimed experts in navigation rules to expressions of joy over a 4th place finish.... really ? THE GLADES ARE DYING.Look at how much money was raised for the event. Pretty sad.


I'm a member of CCA, BTT and Captains for Clean Water. Short of planting TNT at the south end of the Okeechobee dike, I don't know what else I should do. (Just kidding, NSA, I'd never do that.)


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

ranno said:


> Just curious to know how many Nay -Sayers on this forum actually contributed to the cause? We have everything from self proclaimed experts in navigation rules to expressions of joy over a 4th place finish.... really ? THE GLADES ARE DYING.Look at how much money was raised for the event. Pretty sad.


^If that horse gets any higher we're gonna have to send you a Sherpa and some Oxygen.

Nobody on this site is wishing any ill will on anyone, more like a lesson in humility with a lil ball busting mixed in. If you read back you'll see most folks expressed congratulations to all teams, and were happy everyone finished safely.

Also what is the best 5.9 meter 8wt for a beginner??


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## Barbs_deep (Jul 4, 2010)

LIVE LOOK at HCFT :


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

SomaliPirate said:


> Of course, but never forget Lefty > God












*Lefty


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ok so, I miss the race/challenge. Without me reading thru 15 pages of this thread, what was the summery of this race. Who won (I saw that the Biscayne won), in how many hrs and how many stops, then who, then who, then who.... and a basic summery of interesting points about the race (someone got kidney stones, some ran inside while other ran outside, where, etc. Basically a quick and dirty summary of the race and how are they faring now after the race and the condition of their boats. I was really hoping that the Panga would win and to me, made total sense if it did.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

In the next thirty years the population of the US will increase by 130 - 150 million 2nd and 3rd worlders if current trends continue. Most will live in the southern half of the economic zone. Lets hope they are blessed with serious conservation instincts. Bottom line: Some serious challenges forthcoming if the betters in Washington do not stop confusing population inflation with economic growth. 35+ million people living off in Florida and 45+ Million in Texas will do wonders for the Marine Environment.

That YF 17 reminded me of a B17 from WW2. Parts missing, half broken.. Their tilt and trim went out several hundred miles from CB and they did some cool engineering to keep that motor down. A cum-along from eye to eye I think. That Biscayne was something... obviously very "Robust".


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ok, I guess I gotta read this whole thread.


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## Cam (Apr 5, 2017)

Backwater said:


> Ok, I guess I gotta read this whole thread.


You won't find a full accounting in this thread. I still haven't seen one with the stats and such.



EdK13 said:


> 35+ million people living of Florida and 45+ Million in Texas will do wonders for the Marine Environment.


Sadly most of the road blocks in our area are business and politically related.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Hell I can't even get around Atlanta without a wreck or slowdown and we're not near water


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## hcft (Dec 10, 2015)

Barbs_deep said:


> LIVE LOOK at HCFT :



lol you mad bro?


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## jboriol (Jan 2, 2010)

Caution: pot stirring ahead... I got no dog in this hunt but fun to see some jabs in good fun.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

This year my money is on Gheenoe.


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## flyclimber (May 22, 2016)

LowHydrogen said:


> This year my money is on Gheenoe.


I can't wait to see that!


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## firecat1981 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm starting a new 2019 thread


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