# Canoe conversion into a microskiff part 1



## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

I think you're on the right track with the way you have the bulkhead stations tied in and the transom too. You just need to be sure your keel line is straight and level all the way back to the transom. So don't glass the transom to the sides until you're sure on that.

I wouldn't sweat the torque sequence on the transom lamination either, the screws + dead weight + biax sandwich should be more than enough. Plus you'll have another layer or two of biax on the outside and at least one more in the inside once the floor is all tied in too, right?

Looking good so far, though. Oh yeah, if you haven't realized it yet, everything with these kinds of projects takes longer in time, wastes more material and costs more than you think.


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## thresher (Dec 18, 2006)

Great story! I can't wait for the next installment.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

Looking great!  I love these extreme mods like this...can't wait to see it finished.


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## iMacattack (Dec 11, 2006)

Looks splashed to me... ;D 

Joke!

Nice work, can't wait to see it finished.

Cheers


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

Wow that is one heck of a project. I can't wait to see it progress.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Thanks guys for the props. I guess the only thing is now i have to finish it at some point.  I will probably not be able to work on it for about two weeks :'( but then I plan to hit it hard.


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

The estate of Anthony Provenzano called, they want "Tony Pro's" weights back.
[smiley=1-scarysmoker.gif]


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

OK so I was able to get a little bit more done earlier than I thought I would have a chance.
I managed to lay the first piece of glass down for the floor on the starboard side last night, here are some pics from this morning before I left for work.

I hot glued a piece of door skin to the underside of the canoe.  Waxed it with mold release and then layed in the glass from the top side.

Since the canoe floor is wavy I was not worried about getting the voids out.  I will flip the canoe, grind them flat and then glass in more from the bottom.  Once that is done I will flip the canoe back over, grind the voids away from the top side and then fill with glass.  Then glass the whole thing as one piece to tie it all together.





































This resin sets so slow!!!  ended up with a little bit extra down in the keel ;D










I might try to get the other side done tonight depending on how much is waiting at home for me to do.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Wow man you're finally doing in. I've been dieing to try something like this, but I've never had the cojones to cut my hull open....lol I;ve had the itch though and a shop called me in to do some "freelance" work on a boat for them. So I have a big task ahead of me. But it's nothing major like this. I'm just glassing over some holes on the transom, and some on the center console and deck. and sanding the whole thing down and priming it and sanding the prime leaving it ready for paint. Bad part is that it's a fricken 21 foot mako, so it's huge. Worst part about it, it has horrible bottom paint, and I have to remove it. But I have no clue on how to do it. lol


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

not sure how to remove the bottom bait other than sanding it allot...maybe??
BUT make sure you wear a GOOD no a GREAT respirator as that stuff will kill you 


I HAVE A BOAT SHAPE!!!! I managed to get the other side of the floor done, although I stayed up till 2:00 am doing it and am hurting today at work [smiley=1-headache.gif] But it looks good. The boat came to life and actually looks like a boat again!!!

Left the camera in my truck so I will post pictures in a little bit


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

Looks good, the hard part is done!


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## fishin4reel (May 12, 2008)

> Wow man you're finally doing in. I've been dieing to try something like this, but I've never had the cojones to cut my hull open....lol I;ve had the itch though and a shop called me in to do some "freelance" work on a boat for them. So I have a big task ahead of me. But it's nothing major like this. I'm just glassing over some holes on the transom, and some on the center console and deck. and sanding the whole thing down and priming it and sanding the prime leaving it ready for paint. Bad part is that it's a fricken 21 foot mako, so it's huge. Worst part about it, it has horrible bottom paint, and I have to remove it. But I have no clue on how to do it. lol


I forget the company, but someone makes an attachment for a pressure washer that you can use for sandblasting, using regular sandbox sand. I don't seem to remember the name.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> > Wow man you're finally doing in. I've been dieing to try something like this, but I've never had the cojones to cut my hull open....lol I;ve had the itch though and a shop called me in to do some "freelance" work on a boat for them. So I have a big task ahead of me. But it's nothing major like this. I'm just glassing over some holes on the transom, and some on the center console and deck. and sanding the whole thing down and priming it and sanding the prime leaving it ready for paint. Bad part is that it's a fricken 21 foot mako, so it's huge. Worst part about it, it has horrible bottom paint, and I have to remove it. But I have no clue on how to do it. lol
> 
> 
> I forget the company, but someone makes an attachment for a pressure washer that you can use for sandblasting, using regular sandbox sand.  I don't seem to remember the name.



the sand goes through the pressure washer pump? :-?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Least dusty way to remove bottom paint is an old fashioned double blade paint scraper. Cuts the softer bottom paint while leaving the gel coat alone (don't press too hard). Still wear gloves and filter mask.
Interesting project, like a jigsaw puzzle that you can use when done.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

OK so like I said I was up until 2:00 last night trying to get this done so it can be completely cured when i get back in town (I am leaving tonight after work).  I was able to get all the fiberglass laid that I wanted to.

So now there is one layer of bi axial with one layer of chop strand on top of that. also Once I laid the glass and it was some what tacky I pulled off the door skin that was on the starboard side.  I could not pull off the  port side because I had just laid all that glass where as the starboard side had one layer of cured glass already.


These pics were taken this morning on my way to work late, but still managed to take the time for this.  Already late what is another 5 min ;D  by the way the time on the camera is off by one hour it is really 9:xx + the 20-30 min ride to work 





























The mold release worked great.  The problem was i put the mold release on after I had hot glued the door skin to the boat.  Then when the resin dripped between the cracks it got on the door skin where thee was no mold release and this is what resulted.....more creative ways to create work for your self.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

All in all I'd say you doing darn good.  One little thing though. Its kinda hard to tell in the pics but did you taper the existing hull edges any before laying the new glass in there? 

Looks like a bit of a hard ridge where the glass transitions from the door skin to the old glass. Without some tapering its hard for the new glass to lay over a sharp radius like that. So you end up with some air space which is a weaker joint. 

I can't tell how thick the original lamination is, but I would probably grind a taper at least 2-3" in from the edge on the parts you haven't glassed yet. 

You want to at least remove that ridge as much as you can. Since you're going to glass the outside too, you can make the taper roughly half the thickness of the existing lamination. Then before you put the first layer of glass on the outside you'll want to taper those edges the same way or about right to the new glass on the inside. You just need to be careful not to grind into the new glass as best you can. 

You'll end up with a stronger seam that won't require as much grinding and fairing on the back end as well.

Lookin' good though. This is good "food for thought" for me before I take on similar glass work on my Mitchell skiff.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> All in all I'd say you doing darn good.   One little thing though. Its kinda hard to tell in the pics but did you taper the existing hull edges any before laying the new glass in there?
> 
> Looks like a bit of a hard ridge where the glass transitions from the door skin to the old glass. Without some tapering its hard for the new glass to lay over a sharp radius like that. So you end up with some air space which is a weaker joint.
> 
> ...



Deerfly thanks for the heads up, it lets me know I am not completely off the deep end. No i did not tapper the existing hull because it was so wavy (in a vertical direction--hence the large gaps. I did this on purpose though. Mainly this glass is just to hold the boat in place while i flip it over. Once I flip it over there is going to be basically a V shape between the new and old pieces of glass. I will grind and tapper that the correct way and then fill in using continuously larger pieces until it is flat across the bottom. Then I will flip the boat back over and grind away where the air pocket that you referenced is at. Bevel all that away and then fill in, again using bigger and bigger pieces as I go. Doing it this way I can guarantee that there is no air holes present. Also this way I can fill all that in and get it nice and even before I glass over the whole floor at once. 

My only concern at this point is the resin cures completely but just seams slightly less rigid, once cured, than the resigns that I am used to working with.


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

ok, sounds like you have the right idea then. What I was trying to describe was pretty much the same progressive patch you are describing for the outside. So my thoughts were doing progressive build ups both inside and out. But I suspect you'll be fine as far as that goes anyway.

What kind of resin are you using?


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## fishin4reel (May 12, 2008)

> > > Wow man you're finally doing in. I've been dieing to try something like this, but I've never had the cojones to cut my hull open....lol I;ve had the itch though and a shop called me in to do some "freelance" work on a boat for them. So I have a big task ahead of me. But it's nothing major like this. I'm just glassing over some holes on the transom, and some on the center console and deck. and sanding the whole thing down and priming it and sanding the prime leaving it ready for paint. Bad part is that it's a fricken 21 foot mako, so it's huge. Worst part about it, it has horrible bottom paint, and I have to remove it. But I have no clue on how to do it. lol
> >
> >
> > I forget the company, but someone makes an attachment for a pressure washer that you can use for sandblasting, using regular sandbox sand.  I don't seem to remember the name.
> ...


Never used it, heard about it though. Supposedly pretty fast.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Ok first off to answer the question by deerfly i am using industrial strength epoxy resin

Now on with the build.  
Ok so i have been really busy and have managed to work here and there on the boat.  However i sure did not take enough pictures and the one i have taken don't fully describe the agony that i have gone through to get this far.  One night i stayed up till 5:00 in the morning laying glass.

So far i have managed to completely fill in all the gaps in the floor.  I have also laid 2 more layers of chop strand on top of the new glass i had previously laid down.  While doing this i was also able to lay one layer of glass up the whole side walls of the boat to help stiffen it up








































While laying the glass the night i was up till 5 am i guess i had too much resign left and these bubbles are the result of that, but nothing i can not fix with a little grinding and another layer of glass













So one of the biggest problems that i have ran into is the joint where the cut i made stopped.  What was happening is because i changed thte shape of the boat so drastically there was a point along the free board (if i can call it that yet ;D) where the existing wall had a bubble in it.  The bubble would go away if i pulled down on the front of the canoe, but then the keel had a big wave in it and was no longer straight.  further more the keel actually needed to come up in the front to get rid of a wave that was already there but then this made the bubble along the wall become even more pronounced.  I had tried to cut a semi circle out to allow the tension and compression that was causing the bubble to be relieved.  Well that did not work and now i just had a big hole i had to fill.  For about 2 weeks I knew that i needed to just make a cut all the way up the wall and allow the two pieces of the wall to overlap.  This would allow the nose to come up and in turn straighten out the keel while also allowing the extra bubble to straighten out.  Well 2 weeks of trying to convince my self to cut it and i never did.  Turns out after a bunch of beer one night i was talking to a buddy about it and before i knew it he had grabbed the jig saw, cut the wall from top to bottom and said "here now it will be easier to convince your self to cut the other side...thanks james because that is what i needed to do.

here are some pics showing what i am talking about.  these show before i cut all the way up how wavy the boat was.



















This is after i cut the wall and filled in the hole with two layers










Notice here the over lapping layers of the canoe wall



























































Notice how much straighter the wall is.  Also notice that the nose has been cut open that is another thing i tried while convincing my self to do the right thing



















So i had to tab the nose back together from the out side so i could glass it back together on the inside



















Next i need to grind away my tabs from the inside of the transom and fill in the gap that exist there





















Also I am going to need to make my tunnel hull.  I wanted to get a 10" diameter fiberglass tube and use the top 1/3 of it to make my tunnel.  well for almost $800-$900 just for the tube i decided to find another way to make it happen.  So as i am driving to lunch one day with my buddy. (the one that cut the sides for me while i was in my drunken stupor)  As we are driving through an industrial area i look over as we are talking about it and what do i see???  a shop door open with like 4-5 10" diameter cardboard tubes sitting right there.  So after a not so legal U-turn i pull in and ask if i can buy one.  The guy said here ya go you can have it for free!!!  So here is the begging of my tunnel hull.  

I have no experience with a tunnel hull boat so i wanted to ask some advice here.  This is what i think i am going to make it look like but almost feel it is too aggressive of a tunnel...what do you guys think?   these pics just have the card board laying in the boat, i would of coarse not have an abrupt end to it like that but rather tapper it down.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

BY THE WAY I CAN NOW STAND IN THE BOAT ON TOP OF THE GLASS THAT I FILLED IN THE GAP WITH!!!!


So another thing that i have done in  progressing towards a finished product is obtained a motor.  I got a 2004 25 Hp merc which is in great condition.  The only things wrong with it is the water pump and/or the thermostat might need replacing.  Other than than there is the typical latch rusting problem and the begging of some small barnacle growth on the foot.  Here are some pics of the motor.











It also came with the steering rod










Clean as a whistle inside





































Well except for the rusting latch











and the foot has some growth but nothing major











it also came with the wiring harness as well as this shifter and throttle control that looks not so pretty but it works!!











That is all i have for now i will hopefully be getting some more done soon.  I am almost ready to flip the boat over and start filling in the voids from the underside, but i think i want to get the tunnel glassed into place first so when i do flip it over i can cut the exisiting keel out and glass in from the bottom side as well.  This way i dont waste time and materials filling in voids on the bottom that are just going to be cut out latter on for the tunnel hull.  Any advice here for me?


I also got a trailer from a fellow forum member and am in the process of rebuilding it.  I am not taking any pics, although i should have taken a before and after.  That is still in the works and should hopefully be done soon.
Well i hope that you guys are enjoying this build more than i am...LOL ;D 

Oh one last thing i think there are some pics that i left out on accident.  Can some one tell me how to share a album in my photo bucket with you guys but with out sharing the other albums i have on there?  this would be greatly appreciated


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## Ram5773 (Mar 20, 2008)

All I have to say is WOW   Keep up the good work. How heavy do you the finished hull will be? Looks like it will be light, should be a rocket with a 25 merc


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## thresher (Dec 18, 2006)

Looking awesome. It's been a lot of fun to watch this project in action. That 25 merc is one of my favorite motors of all time and she's gonna be a hot pistol with that motor. Now I understand why you did some much to the transom!!


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Thank you guys for all the props.  I hope it hauls azz like some of you said it would.  Not that i need to be a speeding rocket but i just figured i might as well get a 25 instead of a 15 that way i can go just as fast as i would if i had a 15 but while turing less rpm, in turn better fuel economy as well as better life for the motor.  Also i did not design this boat around speed.  I just knew from looking at the displacement of a gheenoe compared to my displacement (after surgery) that i could support a 25 no problem, and still hopefully float shallow.  I hope it works out well.  I think i my height is actually off by about 2 inches so i will need to get a jack plate.  Or i was thinking jsut to build a bracket like the ones on center counsels.

i would like to think that just the hull alone should weight about 200-300 Lbs but still float in about 4 inches.....i hope any ways.


Thanks again and please let me know if there is anything that you see which looks out of place.  after all i really have never done this before and am learning as i go.

P.S.  who is costefshnt?  I have never noticed him on here and have no clue what kind of boat he has but i got a pm telling me that i should be able to give him a run for his money ;D


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Oh one more thing.....

I am still looking for advice on the tunnel hull so any one feel free to chime in. 
Thanks in advance,
Jason Raveling


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> Wow man you're finally doing in. I've been dieing to try something like this, but I've never had the cojones to cut my hull open....lol I;ve had the itch though and a shop called me in to do some "freelance" work on a boat for them. So I have a big task ahead of me. But it's nothing major like this. I'm just glassing over some holes on the transom, and some on the center console and deck. and sanding the whole thing down and priming it and sanding the prime leaving it ready for paint. Bad part is that it's a fricken 21 foot mako, so it's huge. Worst part about it, it has horrible bottom paint, and I have to remove it. But I have no clue on how to do it. lol



Please do tell i am curious as to how this turned out for you. How did you get the bottom paint off? any tricks besides rougher sand paper and elbow grease?


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Got my steering today. Brand new in the box $146
just need to get a wheel now..

Oh and finish building the boat...LOL


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

don't worrie about the wheel. I got some other stuff in the shed I should dig hur and take a few pic's.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

My trailer rebuild took a interesting turn the other day.  I had torn all the springs off the trailer i got from capt jan, bead blasted them, and painted them.  Next I was going to beef up the axle and put new hubs and bearings on as well.  

Then while i was at a fabrication shop doing some info research for work the owner ended up giving me a trailer winch, and a trailer jack.  Although I think the trailer winch might not be any good   But then as I am walking out the door he offers me a axial that has leaf springs on it and tires/ rims that had new looking hubs, and brand new buddy bearings, which leads me to think the bearings are new as well.    So now I will retrofit the new axial which is slightly larger then the original on to the frame from capt jan.  

Also I got the piece of steel that I needed to extend the trailer length the extra 5 feet I needed, just gotta weld it on now.  

I read on here some where that you want at least two inches of running boards extended past the transom.  Is this correct?


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

You are getting somany free hand outs for that skiff you should rename it 


"the Demo-crack"


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Plan your build and build your plan....I like to think of it as recycling while helping people clean out there garage.

My goal from the begging was to build as cheep as I could while still ending with a quality product.  I have been taking my time trying to look for the best deals and eventually the best deal, free, has been coming along lately.  Knock on wood!!!!  
*seriously i am getting really lucky with all the hand outs as well as people helping me with information, and I TRULY appreciate every single one of them.  So heres to every one of you ...cheers and thank you for all the help   [smiley=1-beer.gif] [smiley=1-beer.gif] [smiley=1-beer.gif]
*
Maybe i should have a sponsorship list, who wants to be the next member, I need some Trim tab switches ;D


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## Kemo (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't have anything to offer or sell, but I'll be glad to help with the testing!!!!! ;D ;D ;D


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Kemo I would not mind taking you fishing.  I have not inshore fished in a long time and will be looking for "fishing buddies" when i am done with the boat, as well as before that, starting now.



BTW i just finished glassing the inside of the transom.  Did not really want to do it tonight but with these storms bearng down on us i need to get that transom sealed.  



By far, the biggest mstake I have made thus far in this project is not sealing the front and back of the transom when i glassed the two 3/4" marine grade plywood sheets together.

On the bright side I am getting very close to flipping the boat over and glassing the gaps on the bottom, as well as the back side of the transom.  Then I am ready to float the boat for the first time and simulate the weight to see how it floats ;D

well ok there is about two or three more days of work to fill small holes and the sagging parts on the port side before I am ready to float it


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> Kemo I would not mind taking you fishing.  *I have not inshore fished in a long time and will be looking for "fishing buddies" *when i am done with the boat, as well as before that, starting now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We spoke on the FS forums a while back about hitting up biscayne bay in the jon boat, but you sold out! you never came through!....lol


And about removing that bottom paint. I found a very productive way to get it done easy, and fast. Some random homeless guy was walking by the shop trying to sell some avocado's, so I offered him 50 bucks to get under the boat with the sander and take it all off. It took him 2 mornings, but he got it done!


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

st8south

Ya i fell through because the john boat transom broke. Literally one of the welds broke and the transom would flex terribly. That is another project that i need to get working on, which is sitting on the side of my house.

Over the weekend I managed to get quite a bit done. Although it did not seam like i got that much done I reached a major landmark in the project, and will put the pictures up a little bit latter today.


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## Rbradyn (Sep 1, 2008)

About the tunnel questions......

I've NEVER done anything like this(that's a disclaimer!!!!), but the only info I could find in any of my books shows the tunnel rising up, going straight, and then tapering down slightly by 3 degrees (what I mean is getting shallower, same radius) at the transom. I think that this is to compress the water going through the tunnel so it shoots out when you're on plane. Maybe somebody with a tunnel hull could look and confirm this? 

You might be able to use foam to shape the front. As far as I know epoxy doesn't eat foam like polyester and I know that neither eat urethane foam. 

In any case I'd put plenty of heavy cloth or woven roving on the inside with alot of runout onto the bottom because I've heard firsthand accounts of early tunnel hulls having "tunnel blowout" because the laminations weren't thick enough to handle the pressure.

Hope this helps


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

That does help quite a bit actually.  One of the biggest issues I have is what angle to tapper the tunnel back down to the floor level.  6 deg seams kinda low but yet reasonable.  

What books are you looking in?


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

*THE NEXT STEP...FLIPPING IT OVER*

The Biggest news is that I am ready to flip the boat over, with the exception of the tunnel hull which I am holding off on for now.  I feel there is more research for me to do before committing to a tunnel shape.  Also I plan to seal the back of the transom and the rest of the boat from the bottom and then float it to see how deep it drafts before I commit to even having a tunnel.  At this point I am about 50-50 on whether it would be worth it or not.

But I did manage to get the inside of the transom sealed, including filling in the gap between the side of the transom and the canoe hull. seen below is once it was wetted out but not yet dry



























So I was able to finish tearing apart the trailer and started to rebuild it.
I got the 6 foot extension piece bolted on, but it still needs to be welded. 
The coupler that I bought is sitting ready to be welded on
The trailer tongue jack that i have had in my garage for about 2 years finally got put to use
The bunks got put on although I think they need to be moved forward about a foot
I figured out how i am going to accommodate for the wider axial.  this involves making some extension plates.  These were made today while at work and should hopefully be finished tonight when i get home.

Here are some pics of the trailer






























































































While Working on the trailer I needed this space where the boat used to be sitting on saw horses.  Looked kinda funny with out the boat there any more












In order to move the boat I backed my truck up and slid the boat into the bed then drove forward





























Once the trailer was propped up and in place I put the boat on the trailer for the first time and WOW it actually looks like a boat sitting there ;D














































































THEN I DECIDED TO CLIMB IN AND SEE WHAT HEPPENS













BUT THEN I DECIDED TO HANG THE MOTOR TEMPORARILY TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.   Man this thing is really starting to come together     














































This one looks like the front of the boat is cut open again, but it is just where i got lazy and stopped sanding one day

















































I am off on my height because of the planned tunnel hull.  Depending on how that works out I might just fix the height problem with a jack plate...Only time will tell

Here is a pictures of my little work room










And then I made dinner on my new grill that my dad helped buy me for labor day ;D ;D  (he paid about half, NOTHING can beat having a  great dad)


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## deerfly (Mar 10, 2007)

life is good man, got your boat project, nice new grill and a beer, what else is there? 

btw, I like the palm frond camo pattern on the hull, gives it that tropical feel.


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## Kemo (Jun 22, 2008)

I'm reworking the bunk layout on my trailer, too. I I giving some serious thought to incorporating an old office steno chair on mine, since yours looked so nice there. ;D ;D

Seriously, congrats on the great work you are doing.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

You asked about tunnel pics
bottom of page last 2 photos

< http://www.boatingatlanta.com/River%20Hawk/riverhawk1.htm >


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for the pics of the tunnel hull.

seams allot shorter than I was planning to do mine.  Ireally need to Google some info before I commit to anything, just been too busy trying to get the transom sealed.


Last night I got the axial fitted to the trailer using the extender plates that I made.  The trailer flexes along the 2x2 piece of steel that was already on it when i got the trailer.  To fix this i will weld a another piece of steel, probably "angled steel, from the front corner of the trailer to about 1/3 up the length of that 2x2 that is flexing.  This will also allow me to angle the bunks farther in as well as move them more forward.  
So now all that I need to do on the trailer is weld on the coupler, which i might just bolt on, and weld on the steel supports.

I think I might have gotten really lucky with trailer being balanced correctly, even after all my mods.

Also last night i pulled the boat off the trailer and flipped it up side down.  Work was coming along quicker than i thought it would....THEN MY GRINDER DIED!!!  oh well it was $10 from harbor freight, i will just pick up another one today on my way home from work. 
So i used my sander.  Next thing I know my neighbor walked over and said his wife could not sleep and asked me politely if i could stop sanding.  My neighbor is really cool and i could not figure out what the deal was because he has never said anything to me before.....then i realized it was 1:00 in the morning   Opps

I will try to take some pics today when i get home


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## Gramps (Nov 1, 2007)

The boat is look great man! One word on the tunnel, you will loose some draft, ie sit lower and a tunnel robs approx. 20% of your power. IMHO it is not really necessary and could cause more complications than it is worth.

Looking forward to the splash!


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Thank you gramps, I knew about the larger draft, hence why i wanted to float it before i made the decision.  However i did not know about the 20% power loss.  and that info makes me lean even more towards not doing it.

Furthermore I am leaning towards what you said, that it is more complications than it is worth, and it is good to hear some one else say what i have been thinking and trying to convince my self of.  The more i think about it the more i think i Will not do the tunnel and you just helped confirm that for me 

Again a BIG thanks is owed to every one who has helped me along the way, including the little "nice job", "looks good" words of encouragement.  There are some nights that I look at the boat and think I am so far away and this will never work, so it helps out allot.  
Jason


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

It looks great. Judging by the height of the transom, I would only assume that you are going to raise the sides up to the same height. Are you going to make a flat deck on top with gun whales and what not similar to the Jesnew? Can't wait to see it done.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Yes that was my plan to build the sides up to the top of the transom.  However after rethinking it I am going to float the boat and put weight init to simulate the motor, decks, gas, livewell, and a second person.  Then depending on what the draft is and how low the sides sit in the water I might cut the transom height down a little bit and then build the sides up.  
I am really excited as this is a major step, the boat might actually get wet soon!!!!  well get wet with out rain being the culperate ;D


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

your wheel and some other stuff is at my office.
let me know when you can get by and I will leave your name with the girls.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

I will try to come by today after work, but i might need to help a buddy pull his boat out of the water b4 the hurricane comes. what time do you guys close?


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## MATT (Apr 30, 2007)

5:30pm but I can have someone stay later if needed.


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## Rbradyn (Sep 1, 2008)

> That does help quite a bit actually.  One of the biggest issues I have is what angle to tapper the tunnel back down to the floor level.  6 deg seams kinda low but yet reasonable.
> 
> What books are you looking in?



 I've been collecting boatbuilding books for years....most of them are about wooden stuff and canoes.

 If I could recommend one book to someone doing the extreme stuff I see on this site or straying from a designer's plans in any way it would be "The Elements of Boat Strength" by Dave Gerr.

 It's got mathmatical formulas for figuring laminate thickness, the size of structural members, every part of a boat. It's also got info on building materials, fabric styles, resin, pretty much anything you can think of.

 It doesn't tell you exactly how to do anything, but how to make it so it's safe and doesn't fall apart.  Also, how to tell if that shiny new skiff you're looking at is really a big POS or if a prior owner's mods are kind of "questionable".  It's also great fun to get the deer in the headlight look from a factory rep at a boat show when you ask if they hotcoat their core material before it's layed in the mold or what kind of binder they use, ect.


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

I was waiting for someone, Gramps, with more knowledge about tunnels than me to chime in. My opinion is that tunnels are good for running in super shallow water where as the type of fishing you will likely do around here is run in channels and pole on the flats. Sounds like you have made your decision so I can safely say forget the tunnel.


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

WOW I wonder if this is some kind of record for the number of Hits 

Dave


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> WOW I wonder if this is some kind of record for the number of Hits
> 
> Dave



Without doing any kind of research, I would only assume that the "Jesnew" build up threads hold the record. But I wouldn't be surprised if this one reaches it eventually.


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## thresher (Dec 18, 2006)

The all-time record holder for hits is Joe Wellborn's 13'r redo. He had a little over 7k hits. Yeah, really. Followed by Lone Ranger's redo called the Modest Fisher with 5k hits. Brett is dominating the current board with 3.7k hits on his build (way to go, Brett!) and then there was the insanity that was Curtis's build on the Gheenoe forum. I can't even remember the hits on that bad-boy but it didn't survive the crash of 06.  That was the highest I can think of. Anyone got others they can think of?


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## noeettica (Sep 23, 2007)

Yeah ...Hope Jesenew Is at the rally ...want to see it in person ...

Dave


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> > WOW I wonder if this is some kind of record for the number of Hits
> >
> > Dave
> 
> ...



I would agree with you on that thought.  However, I still feel honored to even be close to some of the builds listed.
I stumbled across this forum and found some cool ideas.   I was/am sick of not being able to fish on a regular basis and needed a boat so I decided to try and build one.  I decided to share my build along the way and start this thread for a couple different reasons.  
First and fore most was so that when I have a question along the way some one more knowledgeable than I am can see what I have done and be able to more accurately help me.  
Second was so that when it comes time  for registration there is more than proper documentation showing that I did in fact make this boat (required for titling reasons)  
Thirdly is because this way I know there are people aware of my build and it gives me more motivation to finish the build, especially on the days that I look at the boat and feel I will never get done with it. 
Again I truly am thankful of every one who has helped me to get this far AND COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT WITH OUT THIS SITE TO GIVE ME IDEAS AND SUPPORT ALONG THE WAY!!!!!  

GO MICROSKIFF.COM!!!!!!!!

I will need to talk with the builder of the jesnew soon as I have a couple questions about how he built up the sides of his boat.  I have studied the pics and I almost understand, just one thing I am missing/ dont understand.

One suggestion that I just thought of for capt Jan is to create a section which contains all the major builds and redo threads.  Maybe leave them where they are at and just create an index that has a link to each one.  I know that when I was doing research on how I wanted to do this build it was very helpful to look at previous builds.  This way they will all be in one place and easier to find instead of looking back through pages of threads.  Especially when I first came to this site because then I did not even know which threads had major build/redo projects and which threads just contained a trolling motor bracket or something of that nature


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

That's a good idea about the threads. Several other forums that I visit frequently (not boating forums) have similar things. Usually they have an "archive" thread pinned at the top that contains links to several great build ups and how to's. Although, I saw that they have a similar idea already about the how-to/DIY section.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Yea the the DIY section is what got me thinking about it. I was thinking about having mine put up there as a "how to turn a canoe into a microskiff" But My thread skips to many steps and in no way comes close to having enough information to allow someone who does not know how to do this kind of thing to jump in and create a boat from start to finish. There is allot of little detailed decisions and processes that I have gone through to get to where I am at which are not included in this thread. Wish I had more time to document it properly but I am trying to get this boat done in time to take it on my honeymoon the first week in December  Might end up just borrowing a tiller motor from some one, throw that on there and not even have a false floor or my decks done...but hey me and Mrs want to go fishing dammit...so we will go fishing some way or another...even if I have to rent a boat ;D

I do have an up date on the boat but dont have time to tell about it now. I might this after noon or just wait till I get pics tonight..time will tell


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## flyfshrmn82 (Oct 12, 2007)

> Yeah ...Hope Jesenew Is at the rally ...want to see it in person ...
> 
> Dave


Dave, 

I missed last year's, but the Jesnew will be at the rally. I look forward to seeing everyone there. I am at site 33. I can't wait. 


Jes


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## flyfshrmn82 (Oct 12, 2007)

Snooknreds2, 

Good job on the boat.  Very creative and original.  Ask me any questions you have.  I'd be happy to answer them.  Don't get in a hurry and don't get lazy.  Keep chugging along, you will catch up with the end in no time.  We worked on my project for a year or so.    [smiley=1-beer-german.gif]

Jes


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Ok First question...what did you use for filler?

Also I would love the opportunity to talk with you on the phone and discuss in detail the way you extended the sides of the boat upwards. I understand the general gist but have a few micro-detail questions that I am not sure what you did by looking at your pictures.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Microballons mixed with resin for non-structural filler.
Cabosil or milled glass fiber mixed with resin for structural filler.


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

> Microballons mixed with resin for non-structural filler.
> Cabosil or milled glass fiber mixed with resin for structural filler.



yea i was planning to use milled fiber and in fact have already for one part


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Another possibility is to pull apart chopped strand fiberglass mat
into individual strands and mix the strands with resin and cabosil
or milled fiber to produce a very strong filler.


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## flyfshrmn82 (Oct 12, 2007)

I used cabosil, mil-fiber, and microballoons depending on the application.  Around the molds for the lids I used mil-fiber and cabosil.  Anywhere I was bonding fiberglass to fiberglass, I had mil-fiber in the mix.  If I filled in gaps I used cabosil and maybe some microballoons.  For the insulation around the livewell I used microballoons.  

Remember, by building up the sides you will increase tippiness in most cases.  How high are you planning on building the sides?


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

I will call you this evening on my way to homestead, thank you in advance for the help!!!


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

Ok so I FINALLY got around to posting some more pictures of the build process.  First of all I reached a monumental step.  I was finally able to flip the boat over and start to fill in the gaps on the bottom.  If you recall from earlier in the build I used door skin hot glued to the bottom of the boat in order to fill in the floor with new fiberglass.  Well when I did that a V shaped channel developed on the under side as a result of the difference in heights between the door skin and the top of the existing canoe.

Here is some pictures of the V shaped channel that I am talking about



















So the first time around (starboard side of the boat) I did the glass work in a traditional way.  Grind and sand it clean then layer in one piece after the other.  I had spent the previous night cutting all the shapes that I would need to do the job, or so I thought.  Luckily my friend came over to help me drink some beer...He thought!!!   Well after laying all the glass that I had pre cut I needed more shapes so I put him to work.  Not including the previous night cutting the shapes it took me about 3 hours to fill in the V channel on that side.

Here are some pictures of that gap filled in


















































I also built up (thickness not height) one of the sides where the buckling had occurred when i opened the canoe up












I also built up the transition area in front of the transom to try and even it out some more




















Also had some resign left over so I went ahead and filled this in as well











Here is a little something I brought home for my special lady friend (No I am not talking about the boat I actually mean my wife to be)  She has supported me through this whole thing and has actually come out and helped me quite a bit, including sanding.  So I thought she deserved a little surprise












So Next was to fill in the other side.  Well I needed some supplies and just happen to go by Fiberglass Coatings at the right time.  Got into a conversation with a VERY knowledgeable guy by the name of Jason.  Actually showed him the project on line and got allot of good information.  Including the idea to use milled fiber and resign instead of spending 3-4 hours filling in the next V shaped channel.  It took 2 containers of the milled fiber to do it, but at $3 a piece who cares....It took me about half as long to do the job, not including the time to cut the shapes on the prior go around.  

All mixed up and ready to lay it down










He told me a peanut butter constancy, I ended up a little bit more viscous that that and wish I had more milled fiber to make it into PB consistency because by the time it dried it had sagged a little...Oh well 











Laying it on



















Once it had dried it looks like this













Here is a comparison shot from the front












I think in this shot I was actually standing on the bottom of the boat










Now these next two shots compare the results of hand laid chop strand glass with the results from milled fiber and resign laid

First is the hand laid side










Next is the side that I used the milled fibers on










What do you think?  I think that it takes half as much time to do the work, no prep time, and just as strong....sounds like I will be buying more milled fiber before this is all said and done.  Furthermore I have now talked on this forum with people who endorse the use of milled fiber so I think I found a winner.

One thing to notice is that I had planned to install a tunnel hull but have gone away from that Idea.  So I need to fill in the gap on the back of the keel that I had been ignoring up until now

Before










And after one layer of milled fiber shoved in there.  I made sure to get out as much air as I could, I would like to believe I got it all out ;D

(this is a repeated picture but for a different reason, Notice the keel is partially filled in on the back now)










One thing that I still need to do is fix this monstrosity of a "wave" in the boat.  If you recall this was one of my bright ideas to get rid of the wave in the canoe wall once I had opened her up.

This is an old picture of before I had ground away the belly









and this is how it sits now



















At this point the project is going to be put on hold for a little while. I got a temp tag for the trailer yesterday And thanks to my neighbor doing some welding for me I was able to get it on the road today.  Although she vibrates at high speed (I dont think I put the axial on quite straight) I think she will work.  I Have the trailer hooked up to my truck and am planning to go down to homestead and get my new Lucraft today.  Then I need to get that operational by Friday morning of next week and head out for my bachelor party (fishing trip)

Here is the trailer hooked to my truck out side of work





















Before I put this project on the back burner I really want to put one or two layers of chop strand on the back side of the transom.  At this point that is really the only part of the whole boat that is not sealed from water.  Once I do that I can float it and decide allot of the other things, such as how high to extend the walls upwards, as well as where my decks will start and end. And most important to me at this point is HOW TIPPY IS IT GOING TO BE??


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## Kemo (Jun 22, 2008)

Great work, SR2. Time to get ready for the big event. Don't let your buddies get you too smashed, like mine did. ;D


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## snooknreds2 (May 5, 2008)

So I went and got the lucraft and spent this past weekend busting my a%% trying to get it ready for the up coming weekend.
As a result I did not get anything else done on the crack noe...well except for putting it on a trailer so it wont take as much room on the side of my house while it sits there and collects rain water :'( :'( :'(


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