# 13ft Gheenoe Classic rebuild and title.



## Master_Baiter

I have a Gheenoe I bought off a co-worker a while back for 50 bucks and a case of beer.  I did more research and found out it was a 13ft classic.  I went to the NMZ and had a blast fishing on this Gheenoe I want to get rid of my Jon boat.  BUT  I have a couple of issues.  

1)  Its got no title.

2)  
a.  back seat is cracked pretty bad.  

b.  Transom has gone to ka-put.  It is  rotted out and needs to be redone. 

c.  The keel is a little worn down in the center and leaking water in.  

d. I do need a new paint job and gel coat.

e. and a trailer.

Is it worth restoring it?  If it is does anyone know how get get instructions on how to do it?  I haven't done any type of glass work....ever.    I am open to any suggestions.

Andy


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## DuckNut

Try to sell it for $50 and a case of beer.

If you are looking for instructions
You don't know what you are doing
If you don't know what you are doing
You will do a poor job
If you do a poor job
You end up with a boat worth $50 and a case of beer
Don't waste time, energy and money

Oh, that sounds like a commercial...

But another puzzle is WHY does it not have a title? Gotta hear this story.


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## Master_Baiter

I saw the Gheenoe at one of my work buddies house and honestly I just asked him about it. He said it was his brothers or relatives boat that left it when he was there. He's got kids so they are jumping up and down on the seats and boat, hence the cracked seats. Also it was left outside so yeah....you get the point. Anywho...I passed by and I told him..sell it. He said okay $50 and a case of beer. So he helped me load it and we drank beer till we had no more. ;D


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## Izzy11

Duck nut ... ? 

Nice answer ... Way to help out ! 

I literally started messing with glass less then a year and a half ago and now I can do full rebuilds ! 
I walked into a fiberglass shop with a note pad and that's where it all started ... 
Lord knows boats can be considered a waste of money IN MANY different ways, but I say we should all waste a little sometimes to learn a lot . 

Now as for this poor old gheenoe ! .... Let's see some pics and get her stared .


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## redfish5

I would first try to title her.  If you can get a title I think it would be worth the rebuild.  I learned last year how to work with fiberglass on my river hawk, and it doesn't take long to catch on.  If you can't get a title and you plan on using it outside of private lakes it might not be worth it.  Unless you don't plan on powering it either.


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## Master_Baiter

Definitely trying to get her titled right now. Been working pretty crazy. I'll have pictures by the end of this weekend. THANK GUYS!


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## jms

> Try to sell it for $50 and a case of beer.
> 
> If you are looking for instructions
> You don't know what you are doing
> If you don't know what you are doing
> You will do a poor job
> If you do a poor job
> You end up with a boat worth $50 and a case of beer
> Don't waste time, energy and money
> 
> Oh, that sounds like a commercial...
> 
> But another puzzle is WHY does it not have a title?  Gotta hear this story.



this is excellent advice !

i see people playing way above thier skill level on a regular basis - it can lead to huge problems.glass work without experience,is asking for trouble - i'm not saying it's only to be done by pros,what i'm saying is,if you lack experience,and you're doing things the wrong way,without knowing it,you're asking for trouble

the pictures below are a good example:
the owner of this boat worked for a now defunct boater's store - this is a repair he attempted,he filled a through hull in the bottom of his boat - that circle piece i'm holding,that was his "repair"...look closley at the pictures - these are what it looked like...yes,that a garden hose shut off,screwed onto a thru hull fitting...hard to believe huh ? somewhere,some one will tell you,this is a good repair - common sense tells us otherwise...

learn to honestly evaluate your skill level,if you're asking questions on an internet web site,your skill level has been exceeded...


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## Master_Baiter

More to come! But you can see the transom is gone. The seats have an aluminum plate almost feels like it's glasses in and bolts stick out.


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## DuckNut

I mostly agree with Kreepa but most everyone has to start somewhere and asking questions is a means to acquiring the skills. But yes the laborer has to realize their limitations.

Gatorgeist- I gave an honest answer to a question that was asked. A used 13'er in pristine condition would bring roughly $800, so lets figure this out.  $50 for the hull, $20 for the beer. Now add approximately $300 to get a title and now you are at $370 and the costs are now waiting to stack up. Glass at $10/yard, resin at $40/gal or $100/gal for epoxy, $50 sand paper, $80 per sheet of plywood, $25 for Rustoleum paint. Any other supplies like rivets, aluminum, fittings, pumps, lights, wire, etc...and I would be remiss if I failed to mention 200+ hours at minimum wage all adds up to way more then a turnkey setup. 

Lets not forget the purchase price of any toos that are not currently owned, the danger associated with power tools and the health dangers associated with these products if used improperly.

Leave out the title part and you save $300 but have expended the remaining money but will never sell the craft for anywhere near the value with a title.

I never discourage someone from trying something new but I will certainly not tell someone they will end up with a beautiful vessel if they simply read the direction on the can just to sound encouraging.


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## Izzy11

Duck nut... Im glad you didnt take my reply to your post the wrong way, and I am being trying to be encouraging. 

This gheenoe still looks to have life left in her though. That transom looks fairly easy to repair with the correct tools and guidance. 
My estimates (and I've redone 4 gheenoes)..... A classic, two 13 highsides, and a 15'4" high side,...... Would be around 300 to FULLY redo this gheenoe excluding the tools . To repair would be less than 150 bucks PROBABLY "give or take a few bucks" . The main tool for me is a grinder/sander for interior work. 
The title will not ever cost 300 bucks ? And I've titled more than my fair share. 

Now as for that transom.... Looks to me that just the would has rotted out. So cut/grind the wood and glass down from the inside and leave the base transom in place. I would get new marine grade wood and glass it back in to the existing transom " make sure to grind down past the existing gel coat" always apply GLASS TO GLASS ! We will get to the rest after you get that done. In order for me to give you an idea of material cost I need to know exactly what you wanna do.


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## Izzy11

I just looked back at the post..... 

Here's the deal..... I wouldn't gel coat. I would just paint it. 

Where are you located and do you have a glass place near you? And I dont mean a boat place. I mean like a fiberglass store. A gallon of polyester resin will run you 20 bucks. The hardener will cost like 6 bucks. Enough gelcoat ... If you want to do that would be anywhere from 35 to 65 bucks. 
What do you have for tools. Sander/grinder ? Then you need latex gloves, mask, and paint rollers. 
Also something to consider .... Trailer will be like 150/200 for a jet ski trailer or something that will work. Also , we need more pics of the boat.... Is it a lowsider or highsider ? If it's a lowside we need keep cost down because they really aren't worth over 300 for a decent one. Highsiders hold their value because they can take bigger waves and are still being manufactured.
Also you may want to head over to customgheenoe.com. These guys stick together and will help you out tremendously. I also have my most recent 13 highside build under "bragging spot" or "tips and tricks topics". There are also lots of other builds and ideas on how to save a buck here and there.


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## DuckNut

No issues and here is what I would add to Gators post:

Take off the aluminum rails before you start grinding and change out the mask for a respirator and don't forget the safety goggles. From the pics it does appear to be in decent shape.

On a continuing note: how do you title a manufactured hull that has been registered for less than $300...I am sure others would like to know because that seems to be the amount that researchers on here have found it would cost?


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## Izzy11

Duck nut...... I'm not gonna give the title info on a open forum though it's legal . It would just help a lot of thieving bastards ! 
BUT ..... I will tell you and certain random others if you guys ever need help.


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## beyondhelp

> Duck nut...... I'm not gonna give the title info on a open forum though it's legal .   It would just help a lot of thieving bastards !
> BUT .....  I will tell you and certain random others if you guys ever need help.


I'd live to have that info, I made the same choices as the Op years ago and ended up cutting up the boat and getting rid of it. I paid for my education and it cost way more than $50.  :-[

Aside from that, my recommendation is slightly different. I agree with DuckNut, make sure you don't end up spending 3x the price of the boat. Or, know and appreciate the value of the boat. 

ME, I put a ton of money into a hull most would have said to discard. (see my build thread) 

But, I did it for several reasons. The work was tough, I didn't do some of it correctly. I am now coping with decisions forced by budget/lack of knowledge/time/etc... I will not sell my boat in it's current config. There isn't anyone who can appreciate the absolutely incredible value I have gotten out of my boat. No resale value will make up for it. How do you put a dollar amount on the fun my nephews had when they caught their first trout? Or my Dad when he caught his first fish on a fly rod? 

Don't give up or quit because of these responses. Don't think you can't do it because someone posted examples of bad work. I have seen just as many "reputable professionals" turn out bad / dangerous work. Don't spend any money on it until you are sure you can title it. 

Know that some choices or work you do could compromise the safety of you or your passengers and seek help if you're not sure.


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## Master_Baiter

I totally agree. I'm not doing anything complete crazy. But I found out some problems. There are a couple of problems I have. I know how to do lay cloth. But is there a specific way to do it on the keel? It's leaking due to dragging i guess. 

Here are some photos. Let me know what I can do. Seats, floor, transom, paint, sanding. Any advice would help with the process of making this poor Gheenoe back into a flats fishing machine. ;D


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## beyondhelp

These guys explain some of it pretty well even if it is tailored to their products which are $$$$$ 

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-and-Maintenance.pdf

I'd hate to steer you away from this forum, you can find a bunch of answers here. You should check out http://forums.bateau2.com/ a boat builders forum with a ton of resources. They have specific subforums for fiberglass and core materials etc...


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## Izzy11

My bad bro ... I I just now noticed you posted some new questions.......

The inside for me is always the most work but the easiest. Just get a grinder with a sanding wheel "like 80 or 60 grit" , and start sanding/grinding all the gel coat off that transom for fiberglass repair. Don't cut out the transom. Just sand off all paint. That way you can use the old transom as s guide. You do need to get that old wood out of there. 

To repair the keel use a finishing sander with 60 grit. Sand down past the paint all around the crack. (a couple inches around the crack)..... Then just cut your glass and apply.


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## jms

> These guys explain some of it pretty well even if it is tailored to their products which are $$$$$
> 
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-and-Maintenance.pdf



west system,it costs more,due to the fact it's worth it - epoxy is waterproof,polyester based resins are not.we all understand that a polyester based resin isn't the best choice for working with wood,due to it's "surface" bond...

west system "guides" give the do it yourself guy a good basic explaination of techniques...

the idea about performing repairs should be,making it a better product,using high quality materials,and following accepted techniques will provide that result...


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## jms

> . I paid for my education and it cost way more than $50.  :-[
> 
> Aside from that, my recommendation is slightly different. I agree with DuckNut, make sure you don't end up spending 3x the price of the boat. Or, know and appreciate the value of the boat.
> 
> ME, I put a ton of money into a hull most would have said to discard. (see my build thread)
> 
> But, I did it for several reasons. The work was tough, I didn't do some of it correctly. I am now coping with decisions forced by budget/lack of knowledge/time/etc...don't give up or quit because of these responses. Don't think you can't do it because someone posted examples of bad work. I have seen just as many "reputable professionals" turn out bad / dangerous work. Don't spend any money on it until you are sure you can title it.
> 
> Know that some choices or work you do could compromise the safety of you or your passengers and seek help if you're not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my response,explaining what i did,was based upon things i've seen - some pretty scary stuff too,including a gentleman who had a small center console,with a bad transom,he,along with his buddy who worked at steiger craft,attempted to repair,after getting an estimate from me...after the attempted repair failed,the boat was brought back,to have the job done...there's examples of bad workmanship on both sides...there's nothing wrong with attempting fiberglass repairs - i've given enough good usefull advice on how to do things,the problem comes in,as i explained,"getting in over your head" - i've seen this on more occasions than i can remember - and yes,i've seen it on both sides - "pros" and owners - know your skill level,and allways work within that skill level - example,is a house painter,like michael angelo ? piccasso ? why not,they're both painters ?
> another problem comes in when repairs are not done correctly,example,that transom,in the geehnoe is repalced,it's done in a haphazzard way - cheap plywood,polyester resin,prep work was poor,numerous voids in the lamination - that "repair"fails,and people get hurt - then what ?
> interesting scenerio huh ?
Click to expand...


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## jms

> To repair the keel use a finishing sander with 60 grit.  Sand down past the paint all around the crack. (a couple inches around the crack)..... Then just cut your glass and apply.



you may not want to follow this advice...


a better,more"accepted way" to make a repair,like that,is to grind the effected area,"dish" the area of the crack,and "feather" the edges of the crack back,at least a few inches,this provides a structual repair,it keeps the integrity of the hull.just sanding the area,and glassing over it,really provides limited strength...follow the advice i gave,and do the same on both sides of the hull - inside and outside - this assures a fully structual repair...


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## Frank_Sebastian

Andy if you want to call me I will tell you how to deal with the boat and get the title. It is easy if you know how. I think $75 worth of epoxy and glass might just put you on the water. PM me and I will send phone number. 

Frank_S


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## Izzy11

Kreepa .... My advise was basically what you said. Your dishing technique better explains it but I don't know if he can do it from the inside.  The cracks on these gheenoes are usually beneath the seats on the outside. 
He could just sand through, apply some filler , and use a straight edge to get it to look flush.  Then apply glass over the fiberglass filler. 
On the other hand,,,, make sure your rollers on your trailer 
arent causing the cracks on the bottom of the noe. 
   
   Andy....Did you ever get the title?


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## Izzy11

Andy... Also since youre part of the gheenoe family I wanna offer you my help . If you wanna tow that old girl over to my house I would be willing to fix it one day. I have left over glass from my prior build and we could just go and get the resin. I don't know where your at but I would be glad to fix it with you !


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## jms

> Kreepa .... My advise was basically what you said. Your dishing technique better explains it but I don't know if he can do it from the inside.  The cracks on these gheenoes are usually beneath the seats on the outside.
> He could just sand through, apply some filler , and use a straight edge to get it to look flush.  Then apply glass over the fiberglass filler.
> On the other hand,,,, make sure your rollers on your trailer
> arent causing the cracks on the bottom of the noe.
> 
> Andy....Did you ever get the title?


home sick today - pneumonia - the end result of wearing yourself down,while you've got a cold...just woke up and i'm bored to death...


there's no strength glassing over filler,also,no need for a filler on a repair like this,if the repair's done correctly...

glassing on one side only,this provides nothing,as far as structual integrity's concerned.you need to access both sides to perform a reliable,structually sound repair.
a "da sander",may not be the best tool to prep the surfaces correctly.the surfaces need to be ground and feathered out - the inside areas should be almost knife like - if you tape a piece of gloss formica to the out side of the hull,and glass the inside first,this will prove an easier way to roll...

sometimes,a proper repair requires cutting,to gain access,to the damaged area - in cases like these,you gotta deal with it...


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## Izzy11

This was my 15'4" gheenoe that I rebuilt ...








Did a full repair job on various cracks on bottom and applied frog spit..








Regelcoated inside after repairing various cracks








This is my classic before and after I rebuilt it ...
















This is my 13 gheenoe before and after I rebuilt it...
















So you see ... I've done my fair share.


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## jms

this may sting...










take a look at the spots i outlined-notice anything different ?


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## Izzy11

Those aren't my repairs dingbat . Those are just signs of a 25 year old gheenoe.  My only repairs were all along the keel and the nose. 
My point is this .  I know you understand glass but their are plenty different ways to do it and you nor I are the best.  
Two different fiberglass repair jobs may have the same strength but one may be a more pretty finish. 
I'm giving him advise on a beginners level to help teach him. It's up to him to make the fit and finish better.


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## jms

> Those aren't my repairs dingbat .



that's nice,thank you-you proved what i thought...


those pictures show a terrible repair - doesn't even match up - told ya it might sting...

now,if you could set aside the name calling,you just might learn something - clearly,your work shows you need some help...

i've never seen a good structual repair not "look" right - NEVER !


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## Izzy11

What ... ? Dingbat is under "friendly name calling" ... Come on! If that's what irritated you... Look.. I don't want to make your pneumonia any worse but your comments are insulting to me. It's like your the type that doesn't quite want to listen to anybody else's way of doing things. I don't mind listening to people's suggestions but I believe it's up to everybody to make up their own minds as to which way they want to do things is best. I would be willing to bet you have problems taking orders from people. You need to have respect for others opinions. If you have a problem with someone elses suggestion then politely make your own. 

I posted my pics because I'm unafraid of what people might say. I know there not the best but they are good. I'm not a fiberglass expert. I just like rebuilding boats. 
My suggestions on how to repair come from experience with those EXACT problems on the SAME EXACT BOAT.


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## Izzy11

DINGBAT


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## jms

perhaps you missed something it typed before? "i understand one way,NOT THE ONLY WAY,what i understand is the best method based upon extensive experience"

there's allways more than one way to do something,however,often,the end results are different...

i listen to what other experienced people have to say,i have a few friends who are in the same biz as me,it's funny,we all follow pretty much the same methods,when performing repairs...

my comments are insulting to you? how? don't like a little constructive critism ? if your only experience in doing repairs is self taught,or from asking for advice at a supply house,your experience is very limited-fair statement,right? is that insulting? practical experience,my friend,along with a few ABYC courses for training...


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## Izzy11

My experience is taught buy guys like you ... Heck, there probably better than you. They are lifers ! 

I wouldn't pay you to do glass work for me until after you were finished ! 
I'm done talking to you


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## Master_Baiter

Gatoreist - those things look like hell of fishing machines. It's not totally hideous and no one is perfect. Looks like it catches fish and floats without leaking good enough for me. I'm the exact same way. I would love to have something like that so no worries. 

Kreepa - Thank man. definitely some good advise but... There is no way i could get to the other side of the keel without ripping everything out.


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## Izzy11




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## stfla

Gator,

What is frog spit?

-Steve


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## DuckNut

Frog spit is simply an ester based resin with graphite in it. Used to make the bottom slick to slide over vegitation (adds zero strength). Mixed up by a guy in Winter Haven. Much lesser product than epoxy/graphite mix


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## Izzy11

Yeah... It's used on the bottom of airboats for protection and to help slide across grass/vegetation. It's good stuff though I think I would use steel flex next time. It's much more durable.


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## Frank_Sebastian

Here is Fasco's web site.

http://www.fascoepoxies.com/products.html

I have used their products for a long time.

Frank_S


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## Master_Baiter

So i got the transom and parts of the seats cut out. prepped and ready for some real work. I'll keep you guys posted


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## Izzy11

Great ! Can't wait to see it get overhauled


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## Master_Baiter

quick question. paint. what paint should i use and is it worth getting the frog spit?


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## Izzy11

> quick question.  paint.  what paint should i use and is it worth getting the frog spit?


Interlux bright side polyerathane two part paint comes out amazing...

Skip the frogspit and just paint the whole thing .. Those lowsides are solid.


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## jms

> quick question.  paint.  what paint should i use and is it worth getting the frog spit?
> 
> 
> 
> Interlux bright side polyerathane two part paint comes out amazing...
> 
> Skip the frogspit and just paint the whole thing .. Those lowsides are solid.
Click to expand...


" bright side",is a one part paint...


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## Izzy11

Kreepo... AKA .. Dingbat..
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1439


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## AfterHours2

The "Perfection" is the two part line. "Brightside" is your typical one part. Both are still good. The two part would be my choice. Little harder to work with but the durability is not even comparable between the two...


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## jms

> Kreepo... AKA .. Dingbat..
> http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1439



perhaps you should click that link ?


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## Izzy11

How do you say... "DON'T LET COMMON SINCE GET IN YOUR WAY" I posted the link kreepo ..... 
I think I figured you out though.... If I lived in jersey I would be miserable to ;D


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## fishinjeff

> I have a Gheenoe I bought off a co-worker a while back for 50 bucks and a case of beer.  I did more research and found out it was a 13ft classic.  I went to the NMZ and had a blast fishing on this Gheenoe I want to get rid of my Jon boat.  BUT  I have a couple of issues.
> 
> 1)  Its got no title.
> 
> 2)
> a.  back seat is cracked pretty bad.
> 
> b.  Transom has gone to ka-put.  It is  rotted out and needs to be redone.
> 
> c.  The keel is a little worn down in the center and leaking water in.
> 
> d.  I do need a new paint job and gel coat.
> 
> e.  and a trailer.
> 
> Is it worth restoring it?  If it is does anyone know how get get instructions on how to do it?  I haven't done any type of glass work....ever.    I am open to any suggestions.
> 
> Andy


Andy,
That might be my old Gheenoe! I bought it new in 1985 and sold it in orlando some time ago.


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## cutrunner

> How do you say... "DON'T LET COMMON SINCE GET IN YOUR WAY"    I posted the link kreepo  .....
> I think I figured you out though....  If I lived in jersey I would be miserable to ;D


You havent clicked your own link yet have you?
Brightsides = 1 part
Perfection = 2 part

But neither are as good as awlgrip ;D


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## Izzy11

Ya cut runner... 

I found the link to the correct name... I thought bright side was the product line but it's interlux. It's interlux bright side or interlux perfection. 

Kreepo just likes to get a word in no matter what. But you would figure with a bit of common since he could figure out what the two part is called ... 

Anyhow... I better watch my info for now on to make sure every letter in my info is correct because kreepo is just waiting to tell me when I spell something wrong :


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## AfterHours2

Common "Sense" to btw... Figured I would bust your chops before kreep did.. You guys crack me up ;D


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## jms

> Ya cut runner...
> 
> I found the link to the correct name...   I thought bright side was the product line but it's interlux.    It's interlux bright side  or interlux perfection.
> 
> Kreepo just likes to get a word in no matter what. But you would figure with a bit of common since he could figure out what the two part is called  ...
> 
> Anyhow... I better watch my info for now on to make sure every letter in my info is correct because kreepo is just waiting to tell me when I spell something wrong :


2 very different products - 2 very different names...
the problem kicks in when someone reads what you type - if you're typing incorrect info - well,you figure the rest out...

nobody's waiting for anything,nobody's miserible either - just got home from a week in st maarten...

you're allways good for a few laughs...


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## jms

> How do you say... "DON'T LET COMMON SINCE GET IN YOUR WAY"    I posted the link kreepo  .....
> I think I figured you out though....  If I lived in jersey I would be miserable to ;D
> 
> 
> 
> You havent clicked your own link yet have you?
> Brightsides = 1 part
> Perfection = 2 part
> 
> But neither are as good as awlgrip ;D
Click to expand...


gotta agree with the awlgrip - only product i use,i treat those cheaper,lower quality products like kryptonite...

word to the wise:

if you're spraying awlgrip - the only way to apply it,in my opinion,you really need a forced air system,the fumes will cause some serious harm to you...pretty potent stuff...


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## Master_Baiter

fishinjeff - DO You have the title!!! Life would be one step easier! lol 

As far as the build 

















transom ready


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## anytide

whose dingbat?

- :-/


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## Master_Baiter

Should I cut out the center seat and try to do a NMZ style?


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## Master_Baiter

Slow but it's going to get there.


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## Master_Baiter

It's coming along! Thanks for everyone who encouraged me to rebuild this flats machine!!



















What you guys think?


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## Izzy11

What's up Andy ! Looking good.... So tell us what you've got planned on the finish... Are you gonna glass over the wood or paint it? I bet you can't wait to get it on the water ;D


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## Master_Baiter

Definitely. I gotta glass over the seats. I gotta take up the rub rails to properly glass in the transom. Next is to paint the inside. Going to paint it white with black webbing. Then on to the hull/keel repair. Switch board is ready to be put in. wires are going to be ran. Running lights. Slap on the motor and ready! Its taking a while cause I can only work on it maybe a day or two a month do to work. sucks =(


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## Izzy11

Good deal ! Well it looks like the water is not so far away ..... Keep the progress pics coming.


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