# Death of the Waterman!



## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Bonecracker said:


> Ok after fishing my 16 Waterman for almost a year, I have come to the conclusion that it is not the flats boat for my region of the Gulf. All the Tarpon I target are in 3-5ft of water (ocean side/bigger waves) and most of the big winter reds are in the same depth. Yes there are occasions where I target reds in 6" of water but they are few and far between in the region. I have longer runs over open water to fish and this little boat with a 25 Merc is not cutting it!! I would like something in the 16-18ft range that I could pole with two angles in 7-8" of water and handle a chop. I always buy good used and my Budget $25,000 or less. Thoughts on an alternative??


I'll share my thoughts with you for the small fee of...your Waterman.

Depending on how "used" they are to fit your budget, here's a start:
HB: Biscayne, Marquesa, Pro
Mav: HPX-V 17 or 18 or mirage
ECC: Fury, Vantage (probably can't find and EVO for 25k)
Dolphin Super Skiff
Not sure how the Beavertails that fit your budget handle the rough stuff.
Hewes would draft a little more.
Egret would cost a little more.
Maybe a Ranger Ghost?
Would a Low Tide Guide work?


----------



## lpg (Sep 1, 2015)

all good boats. I can vouch for dolphin superskiff. build quality is great. i am sure the others are as well


----------



## kenb (Aug 21, 2015)

lpg said:


> all good boats. I can vouch for dolphin superskiff. build quality is great. i am sure the others are as well





Bonecracker said:


> Ok after fishing my 16 Waterman for almost a year, I have come to the conclusion that it is not the flats boat for my region of the Gulf. All the Tarpon I target are in 3-5ft of water (ocean side/bigger waves) and most of the big winter reds are in the same depth. Yes there are occasions where I target reds in 6" of water but they are few and far between in the region. I have longer runs over open water to fish and this little boat with a 25 Merc is not cutting it!! I would like something in the 16-18ft range that I could pole with two angles in 7-8" of water and handle a chop. I always buy good used and my Budget $25,000 or less. Thoughts on an alternative??


I would definitely recommend the 18 version of most of those brands.


lpg said:


> all good boats. I can vouch for dolphin superskiff. build quality is great. i am sure the others are as well





lpg said:


> all good boats. I can vouch for dolphin superskiff. build quality is great. i am sure the others are as well


Dolphin Backcountry 18. Polable at that depth, great ride in the slop, priced reasonably. Solid.


----------



## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

pt448 said:


> I'll share my thoughts with you for the small fee of...your Waterman.
> 
> Depending on how "used" they are to fit your budget, here's a start:
> HB: Biscayne, Marquesa, Pro
> ...


HB: Biscayne, Marquesa, Pro
Probably not doable! We can wish!

Mav: HPX-V 17 or 18 or mirage
Now we are talking!!

ECC: Fury, Vantage (probably can't find and EVO for 25k)
I would like to think I could find something in my budget here but not very realistic!!

Dolphin Super Skiff - no thank you!

Not sure how the Beavertails that fit your budget handle the rough stuff.
Possible option here!

Hewes would draft a little more.
Possibility here and thought I would not go back! It could be just what I am looking for at a much reduced budget!

Egret would cost a little more.
Love the boat, but once again not in my price range!

Maybe a Ranger Ghost?
Would a Low Tide Guide work?[/QUOTE]
Never been on either of these boats but the Ghost has possibilities!


----------



## Nick (Sep 25, 2015)

So whatre you selling your waterman for?


----------



## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Mav mirage or Master Angler or a lappy Hewes. Any of these would fit your budget and maybe you'd have enough left to get a new motor

I am a little bias


----------



## "RockyG" (Aug 3, 2014)

When I started Tarpon fishing where I assume you are fishing (based on your location) back in the mid 90's we all had "18' flats boats", IE Action Craft, Maverick MA, etc. Not technical poling skiffs but big enough to sit out there in the afternoon sea breeze without taking green water over the bow. One of those with an updated motor and wiring would be an affordable option. 

Keep the HB too. Who ever dies with the most boats wins.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

"RockyG" said:


> When I started Tarpon fishing where I assume you are fishing (based on your location) back in the mid 90's we all had "18' flats boats", IE Action Craft, Maverick MA, etc. Not technical poling skiffs but big enough to sit out there in the afternoon sea breeze without taking green water over the bow. One of those with an updated motor and wiring would be an affordable option.
> 
> Keep the HB too. Who ever dies with the most boats wins.



LOL, gotta love that!

Heck I poon fished out of a 20ft flats boat for years, especially in the 90's.

Rocky said what I was going to say. I would get a "late" model (no lappy boats), good, clean, garaged kept Hewes Redfish, Mav MA, or something similar with a nice, clean low hour Yami, Honda or Zuke on it, and a great trolling motor and be done with it. 17-18ft. When I beach fish for poons with someone else on the bow, I'm typically staged up and waiting for the fish to come to me and not the other way around. So I'm not poling down the shoreline. Then when a pod is spotted, you simply ease over to their forecasted path and wait for them to come to you. That's easy enough to do that with a flats boat. You're not poling, just maneuvering and hole your position with the pole. Otherwise, if your fishing, just bump yourself out with the trolling motor. Nobody's gonna care otherwise. End of story! 

The ride will be night and day and your back, wife and guest will thank me! Ha! Heck I'll thank you when I come up and fish with you sometime! 

On the technical poling crossover side, you can consider a Mav HPX-V 17 or 18

One other option is to break the back, get rid of the HP and have harry build you an Orca!


----------



## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Buy this Silver King and keep your Waterman.

http://www.microskiff.com/threads/1998-silver-king-70-hp-yahmaha.37263/


----------



## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

I am not going to discuss the sale of the Waterman because that is not what this thread is about. If I list it here for sale on Microskiff, you know where it will be listed!! I do not have to sell the boat but I see the writing on the wall. On the other hand I have guys who want to buy it without listing the boat for sale!!


----------



## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Bonecracker said:


> I am not going to discuss the sale of the Waterman because that is not what this thread is about. If I list it here for sale on Microskiff, you know where it will be listed!! I do not have to sell the boat but I see the writing on the wall. On the other hand I have guys who want to buy it without listing the boat for sale!!


Here's a review of the low tide guide I mentioned. 
http://www.skinnyskiff.com/2014/10/27/skiff-review-spear-boatworks-low-tide-guide/


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

MariettaMike said:


> Buy this Silver King and keep your Waterman.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/threads/1998-silver-king-70-hp-yahmaha.37263/


That was a great boat back then. Poled easy enough and was a dry rod. Very fishy boat and I really loved the recessed deck so my flyline didn't blow overboard.

Too bad someone didn't snag those molds, re-worked them and started building them again.

Ted


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Find a good used one of these if you are looking for a higher end technical poling skiff crossover to a flats boat.


----------



## Lifeaquatic (Jul 18, 2010)

Your description sounds like a Maverick 17V, HB 17.8/Waterman or a HB Pro. If you have sometime to look for a good deal you should be able to get an older hull for around that price range.


----------



## RobA (Aug 21, 2015)

Backwater said:


> That was a great boat back then. Poled easy enough and was a dry rod. Very fishy boat and I really loved the recessed deck so my flyline didn't blow overboard.
> 
> Too bad someone didn't snag those molds, re-worked them and started building them again.
> 
> Ted


I'm pretty sure that the Dragonfly Grandslamn 17 has a lot of the Silverking in its DNA, and its a sweet boat.


----------



## CDL (May 14, 2015)

Get up with Harry and try his skiff, pretty nice !


----------



## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

I would love one of Harry's Skiff's, but it's just not in the budget for a brand new skiff which is in the $30,000 range. Not to mention I never buy new!


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/boa/5451208836.html


----------



## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

I would keep the micro and buy a Cadillac ^ flats boat used. Heavy boats ride great! That lake and bay is sweet!


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

devrep said:


> http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/boa/5451208836.html


That boat with a 300 is dumb!


----------



## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

would probably sink like a rock if it took a wave over the stern. Sweet looking hull though. I have a 30 million dollar construction project going in Naples right now and the shell contractor used to be an owner of Lake & bay until the recession hit. Obviously he's still doing well. Sweet boats.


----------



## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

devrep said:


> would probably sink like a rock if it took a wave over the stern. Sweet looking hull though. I have a 30 million dollar construction project going in Naples right now and the shell contractor used to be an owner of Lake & bay until the recession hit. Obviously he's still doing well. Sweet boats.


There is a rumor L&B is back...
http://www.lakeandbayboats.com


----------



## KnotHome (Jul 21, 2009)

What about a Deno 17?


----------



## mboeder (Mar 4, 2011)

Backwater said:


> That boat with a 300 is dumb!


Many lake and bays have 300hp motors on them. They are rated for a 250, most 300s weigh the same. Lake and bays are the pinnacle of how a flats/small bay boat should ride. I've been in 2-3ft chop out side of boca grande and never felt unsafe! Not to mention they will run north of 70mph easily. A guy around here just bolted up a 400 verado on a lake and bay!! They draft 10" so thats the only thing keeping me out of one.... Get a Gene built one, no two are the same. Every gene built boat was different.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I know the boat intimately. My brother-in-law ran one and I had several friends that ran them. I ran a Backcountry Pro guide 201 for 6 yrs, which had the exact same hull as the L & B, but the BC sat better in the the water, due to the fuel tank being further forward, then the L&B was further back, which cause the boat to squat.. I guided Boca Grande, Tampa Bay and the Glades in the late 90's so I know the boat well. She had a 200 Yami VMAX and any more weight back there and you would start to get problems. Loaded with 2 people, it would run 68. By myself with everything trimmed up and about 1/4 tank (10 gals) and light load, I could run 72mph. You'd be crazy to run that hull any faster.



Take a look at just me on the back corner with the opposing side release well full of water. Notice how low it squated. If it was a L & B with a 300, there would be water over the rear deck.

 circa 1998

There was another mfg that used that same hull too. It was called a "Big O." O standing for Lake O. Same issues with that boat. Yes that same hull in the BC was bad ass and would eat some rough water. But We came close to sinking it twice and my buddy sank it with a well known celebrity in the sports world. I was in a friend's L & B in Boca Grande pass and he had a 250 and both of us standing in the back and about 2" deep of water was coming over the back deck.

The weight of a 300 will squat too low and that kind of speed would just be asking for trouble.

Sorry Bonecracker for getting off topic.


----------



## KnotHome (Jul 21, 2009)

mboeder said:


> Many lake and bays have 300hp motors on them... Not to mention they will run north of 70mph easily. A guy around here just bolted up a 400 verado on a lake and bay!!


WTF is the point? I really don't understand the "Must go faster than 50...60...70" mentality. May as well run a bass boat.


----------



## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

Guys I got a 22 Pathfinder with a big motor so I do not need a big flats boat!! I want something that I can pole, gives me a decent ride in 2ft seas, moderate horse power (60-90hp), fish 3 people, and does not break the bank. Most folks that buy $35-40,000+ flats boat take care of them so that's why I am looking for good used boat with a motor that has low hours (under 300). I am heavily leaning toward the 17 HPX-V.


----------



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

KnotHome said:


> WTF is the point? I really don't understand the "Must go faster than 50...60...70" mentality. May as well run a bass boat.


I agree with you KnotHome. I mostly ran that boat back then at half throttle. Today with other skiffs, once I'm on a plane, I'm good! I enjoy the leisurely ride as much as the fishin.


----------



## windblows (May 21, 2014)

I'd like to think my boat would meet your requirements, OP. It's an Inshore 18 by Inshore Power Boats.


----------



## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I work out of a very old Maverick skiff (the cheapest one they ever built - just under 17' with no inner liner at all so I saved 150lbs in hull weight) and do a bunch of tarpon fishing with it - using pushpole only.... and it runs right across all ten miles of Whitewater bay in almost any conditions.... My hull pre-dates the Master Angler 17 - but has nearly the same dimensions - just lighter so it does fine with a 90 (a bit under powered -but it's in hard commercial service for the last twenty years so speed isn't an issue for me....).

That said, if I ever replaced it I'd be looking for a used Egret 18'9" (the standard model actually poles a bit better than my Maverick....) without a monster motor on it (the ones I've run with a 150 actually had more motor than they needed - but one with a 150 is a dream package...). They're very well built and really, really hold their value so you'd be able to re-sell it very quickly if it doesn't meet your needs. More than a few guides actually use them ocean side (that's the Atlantic side.....) in all kinds of water.


----------

