# Flat etiquette



## Flatbroke426 (May 5, 2018)

ok I never do this but had to so pardon my rant and venting. Spent the day on the flats with my son yesterday. What has happened to having flats etiquette? In the old day people respected each other and used manners. In 4hours I was cut off twice, had people motor the flats with 300hp outboards, have them fire up and power off a flat and enter a flat by motor right where the reds stage and move onto a flat.. all boats had poling platforms but never once used them. Dead low tide fish tailing and they either run a big or electric motor spooking everything in the Area. Even had one guide come up and started throwing a cast net on the fishing flat so he could have his client throw finger mullet at the reds on the same flat he was cast netting. Again never poling but running a huge motor the shallows to get on the mullet. Ok I’m done. Had the scream a bit.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

That is why someone came up with the name asshole.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Were you flying an Alabama or Auburn flag?


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Welcome to Texas mate. Except the 24' cats are generally seen with 400s nowadays. Flats etiquette? Pooft... thing of the past. 

There is an organization Flatsworthy that is based in Rockport that is attempting to get fishermen to act with courtesy, civility, and respect for the resource, however I suspect it is a lost cause. 

What you see out on the water is a direct reflection of society in general. People brought up believing they are entitled to everything, with no personal responsibility, end up as ate-up assholes on the flats. Sad but true.


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## Flatbroke426 (May 5, 2018)

It’s sad. When I was coming up. The guides kept everyone in line making sure they made others know in no uncertain terms what was acceptable. Now some of them are a main part of the problem. Now they chase tarpon schools for hours instead of letting them pass and calm down to burning flats to be able to get to a hole that is being overfished. It’s sickening. Kinda glad my boy saw it. We had a long discussion on why not to do things and he just shook his head and asked don’t they even care?


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2019)

Flatbroke426 said:


> ok I never do this but had to so pardon my rant and venting. Spent the day on the flats with my son yesterday. What has happened to having flats etiquette? In the old day people respected each other and used manners. In 4hours I was cut off twice, had people motor the flats with 300hp outboards, have them fire up and power off a flat and enter a flat by motor right where the reds stage and move onto a flat.. all boats had poling platforms but never once used them. Dead low tide fish tailing and they either run a big or electric motor spooking everything in the Area. Even had one guide come up and started throwing a cast net on the fishing flat so he could have his client throw finger mullet at the reds on the same flat he was cast netting. Again never poling but running a huge motor the shallows to get on the mullet. Ok I’m done. Had the scream a bit.


Sorry to hear! How was your turkey?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

It’s been getting worse every day. I don’t even bother ranting about it, just try to tell them what they are doing wrong and just chew on their ass if they can’t take some lessons on fishing etiquette.
I can honestly say I think Facebook, Instagram and other social media plays a big part in it because people are asshats on there and on the water they act the same way. Most of these flatbillers are just fishing for social media likes and think burning shorelines, potlicking and meat hauling every trip is how it’s supposed to be. The tourists (AKA GOOGANS) are just ignorant.


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

pisses me off when people who know better(guide) cuts your drift off or hauls butt to cut you off after you made the turn idling to the "hole" ....really obvious


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

I have discovered that if I want to be involved with fishing, I will need to become much more tolerant and willing to let things go. Otherwise it will be difficult to have an enjoyable time, starting with the booger eating morons at the boat launch, to the shore burning idiots standing on top of the console, to the SCB jet pilots who think it necessary to run in excess of 80 mph everywhere to joe friggin airboat asshat and so and so forth. So with all this, being in a back lake at sunup only boat there, seeing reds crashing bait, does make it all worth while. But hold that thought, because it won't be long until some asshole manages to ruin it.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Rod ready with a 1 or 2oz bank sinker can make long accurate cast. Works good with a bait a foot up for fishing great distances from fish.


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## sandyharris (Jan 12, 2015)

It's not just the flats.....it's anywhere there are folks who use others as their GPS coordinate.....fishing a creek and set up on structure? You can count on someone on top of you......fishing albies in the ocean? If you are on a school, count on someone roaring up into the middle of them and sounding the entire bunch.....fishing the surf? count on a beach driver sitting back in the comfort of his big ass truck until he sees you hooked up.....by the time you walk your fish to your bucket he will be standing in your spot.......and in North Carolina you can count on finding a gill net stretched wherever you found fish the day before....but commtrd is right.....you just have to find that zen place in your mind for at least part of the day......but it is difficult........


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Poled up on a negative low flat yesterday and found the fish staging and happily tailing as they waited for the tide to rise so they could get back into a back bay. Also noticed a guy in a kayak a couple hundred yards down the shore line staged up. He got there first so we honored that and stayed well away from him...

So we start creeping around quietly on the pole trying to find the happy depth where the non-tailing reds were laid up in. Sure enough we figure it out and start getting lots of shots at cruisers and tails. It was fairly obvious to any observer that we were in the fish as we poled around and swapped positions and cast at fish with the fly rods. (I missed the strip set on a stud tailer...)

So I look up at one point and sure enough we've got a kook in a Hobie Pro Angler pedaling right at us. Spin rods waving around like turkey feathers in his 2 dozen rods holders and everything. I start waving him off and making "shush" hand signals and finally as he gets closer I shout at him that I'm going to blow out "the entire goddam flat" if he comes any closer. Kook that he is...he keeps on coming and passes within casting range behind the skiff kicking those god damn pedals in 10-12" of water and blowing out the fish we were stalking.

Its just amazing how ignorant people are on the flats...especially the bait chucking boats who have no understanding or any appreciation for sight casting and the stealth required. If you see a flat with multiple boats being push poled you'll see that they space out and give each other room...its always the jackhole that pedals, idles, or trolls into the middle of them that causes the drama...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Ask them for their cell number so you can text them a sweet link...

http://www.rockportflyfishers.com/random.html


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Here’s a drunk dipshit in a 25 foot bay boat with a 400R on it that ran into a back lake that’s 18” deep chopping bottom the whole way in and tried to turn and get back out and grounded it. I was poling my client and my skiff was touching bottom where we were. We laughed our asses off and continued poling the perimiter. Captain Flatbill got out and waded to the other side while he waited on an airboat to come pull him out. We poled right up to him and Tim caught two reds off a school of tailers less than a hundred feet from him and we carried on a conversation as all this was going on. I asked him a second time if he wanted my buddies cell number to bring his airboat to pull him out for $800 and he said “naa we’re good, we will get out when we want to”. Shit, that boat was 6” under it’s draft and no way in hell they were pushing that tank out 250 yards over sand.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2019)

topnative2 said:


> pisses me off when people who know better(guide) cuts your drift off or hauls butt to cut you off after you made the turn idling to the "hole" ....really obvious


Can't mark this comment as "like" because it's so true that I hate it! If anyone "should" know better it's a "guide". I've had some clients observe this behavior from those disrespectful guides and vow to 1. Never book them 2. Make sure they spread the word as to what dicks they are. Those guides who think that's only about the clients in the boat at that moment don't even have a clue as to how much it's hurting their reputation and business. I've also picked up clients from those guides because the clients knew that what they had experienced was not professional. It's been my experience that the "a-hole guides" are always and will always be just that. Sad


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

mike_parker said:


> Can't mark this comment as "like" because it's so true that I hate it! If anyone "should" know better it's a "guide". I've had some clients observe this behavior from those disrespectful guides and vow to 1. Never book them 2. Make sure they spread the word as to what dicks they are. Those guides who think that's only about the clients in the boat at that moment don't even have a clue as to how much it's hurting their reputation and business. I've also picked up clients from those guides because the clients knew that what they had experienced was not professional. It's been my experience that the "a-hole guides" are always and will always be just that. Sad


Everyone should know better, there’s no excuse.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Here’s a drunk dipshit in a 25 foot bay boat with a 400R on it that ran into a back...he said “naa we’re good, we will get out when we want to”.


The dude that puts a 400R on a Dargel Kat 25 with all that other crap is certain he can go and get up anywhere...even when presented with the reality that is 250 yards of sand bottom.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2019)

MariettaMike said:


> Were you flying an Alabama or Auburn flag?





Flatbroke426 said:


> It’s sad. When I was coming up. The guides kept everyone in line making sure they made others know in no uncertain terms what was acceptable. Now some of them are a main part of the problem. Now they chase tarpon schools for hours instead of letting them pass and calm down to burning flats to be able to get to a hole that is being overfished. It’s sickening. Kinda glad my boy saw it. We had a long discussion on why not to do things and he just shook his head and asked don’t they even care?


 Trouble is, nowadays, it's hard to "keep everyone in line" as we never know who or what we're dealing with [road rage types can quickly become "flats rage" types].


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2019)

MariettaMike said:


> Were you flying an Alabama or Auburn flag?


Mexico?


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## BassFlats (Nov 26, 2018)

I try to fish early or late to avoid the jackwagons. But still , I'll get the eco- tourist kayak paddle right up to me every once in a while.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

I saw a boat just like that at the last hunting-fishing expo in McAllen. Giant Dargel Kat and even huger Merc 400. A couple of the most despicable butt-wipes were crawling all over that boat admiring the abomination of REALLY crappy ridiculous metal work (powdercoated too) and listening to those idiots exposing just how far it was they had zero understanding of the art of shallow-water hunting for fish. 

Those are the ones who would plow $200k into a rig like that then proceed to righteously stuck. Running where they have no business being. Karma is a bitch sometimes anyway.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

I used to get really upset when genuine American idiot ruined our fishing but over the years I’ve gone to a different tactic entirely... 

I turn my back on the yahoo, say not one word and move to another location. I’m perfectly willing to answer questions and mostly try to help out other anglers but once I’ve identified someone like that I won’t even talk to them, period.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

lemaymiami said:


> I used to get really upset when genuine American idiot ruined our fishing but over the years I’ve gone to a different tactic entirely...
> 
> I turn my back on the yahoo, say not one word and move to another location. I’m perfectly willing to answer questions and mostly try to help out other anglers but once I’ve identified someone like that I won’t even talk to them, period.


That may work in the ‘glades but do that around here and you’ll never be in one area for more than ten minutes. It can be frustrating as hell, I’ve tried it. If I’m frequently fishing the same areas along the coast I’ll likely run across or be run across by the same people again so next time maybe they will second guess their next move. Maybe me educating them will help another guy not get an area ruined by the same fools. You can’t get away from them, I’ve tried running across 3-4” deep areas to access remote back lakes and then you get airboats running all over either trying to herd redfish, prepping duck blinds, running to duck blinds, sight seeing or the famous Texas coast $500 whooping crane airboat tours. Every now and then I’ll get a trip where my blood pressure isn’t sky high at some point.


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## Griffinz33 (May 8, 2018)

I paddle board fish and the nice thing with paddle fishing is that I can get to places where the boats can't. I get the fish all to myself and don't see another boat the entire time I fish


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Griffinz33 said:


> I paddle board fish and the nice thing with paddle fishing is that I can get to places where the boats can't. I get the fish all to myself and don't see another boat the entire time I fish


An airboat can run on land, down the highway, wherever it wants. They sometimes unload their airboats in the boat ramp parking lot and run them into the water from their parking spot, it’s easier than trying to get one off the trailer that way I guess. They are all over the place down here especially right now during duck season. Used to only see them this time of year but people started running airboats year round so they are all over.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

That's been the norm in Swfl for a long while now unfortunately.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

lemaymiami said:


> I used to get really upset when genuine American idiot ruined our fishing but over the years I’ve gone to a different tactic entirely...
> 
> I turn my back on the yahoo, say not one word and move to another location. I’m perfectly willing to answer questions and mostly try to help out other anglers but once I’ve identified someone like that I won’t even talk to them, period.


That’s what I did today. I was posted up on a point looking for permit as it was the right stage of the tide. Dingy with tiller heads my way, blows up the whole flat then runs 100’ in front of me. I just left, as there is no way I was going to have any shots after that.


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## Snakesurf (Jun 18, 2019)

I don't care how rude or stupid people can be, I am still going to idle past guys fishing whether it is big boats or kayaks and respect with distance if possible. Sometimes guys will just park in the opening of a bayou or cut so distance will be an issue. I have noticed that guys that have screamed past me too close that I moved around and slow when I saw them again showed me the same respect later down the road. Sometimes it is a teaching moment but assholes will be assholes said the scorpion to the frog.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

crboggs said:


> Poled up on a negative low flat yesterday and found the fish staging and happily tailing as they waited for the tide to rise so they could get back into a back bay. Also noticed a guy in a kayak a couple hundred yards down the shore line staged up. He got there first so we honored that and stayed well away from him...
> 
> So we start creeping around quietly on the pole trying to find the happy depth where the non-tailing reds were laid up in. Sure enough we figure it out and start getting lots of shots at cruisers and tails. It was fairly obvious to any observer that we were in the fish as we poled around and swapped positions and cast at fish with the fly rods. (I missed the strip set on a stud tailer...)
> 
> ...


I would literally just get out of my boat and walk right in front of him and be like STOP man. You need to acknowledge Im yelling at you. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to sleep.

On my first day in the keys in Islamorada last year I was poling a flat(no one in site) and a guy with a net just motors to about 50 ft in the direction I am going and throws a net out while his motor was idling. I probably got just further then a poles length away from him but never said anything was just thinking, is this what its like down here? 

Ive actually noted many other issues though. I think its funny because I've never had the boat ramp show, but in Montana you don't just fish where someone else is. Id just look at you and tell you to leave.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Surffshr said:


> The dude that puts a 400R on a Dargel Kat 25 with all that other crap is certain he can go and get up anywhere...even when presented with the reality that is 250 yards of sand bottom.


Have only seen one Dargel here in the Tampa area...and sure enough he hole jumped us and blocked the back bay we had poled into on a rising tide. I idled out and past him with the big ole Jack Foreman prop chattering the whole time before exchanging pleasantries and jumping up on plane. 

You guys can keep that TX cat bullshit over on your side of the gulf, we don't need it here.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

hmmm

Anonymity fuels some inconsiderate behavior on the water, and much of the rest is due to ignorance.

The type of boat doesn’t cause bad behavior, but many operators fit the profile for the kind of boat they are in.

In my opinion every boat should have the owners name and phone number on it to support community education and direct grievance communication.

Ranting may decompress the victims, but does nothing to educate the villains.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

well spoken sir!!


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Well it's a different kind of fishery in TX. Meat hauling and huge cats with biggest motor possible, and most of the (sic) fishermen have zero courtesy or regard for the resources. A lot of times it can just suck to go try to cast flies and fish stealthy in TX.


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## Flatbroke426 (May 5, 2018)

I grew up guiding in the Keys. If you did this crap you’d have a visit from the senior Captains like Billy Knowells or Bill Curtis or Cecil Keith. Trust me you didn’t want a chewing out from them. We respected our senior guides, each other and the waters we fished. Sad those times have passed. We all need to pledge that wherever we talk, teach or write about the flats we need to always bring up etiquette


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Read the posts following mine and realized that I missed a couple of things...

The first is really simple and I do try to follow it always. Make a point of treating others they way you want to be treated... and if someone messes up your absolutely best spot on a particular day -don't give them the slightest clue that it's any place special.... 

Slow down to idle when passing someone that's fishing in a river (or poling along a shoreline...). If someone is staked out or anchored in a small river tarpon fishing - I'll actually shut down and pole past them if I have to go upriver of them.... During tarpon season down in the Keys (something I haven't done in years since I retreated back into the 'glades out of Flamingo or Chokoloskee...) I was taught to always move out to around seven feet of water or deeper when running from place to place - any shallower and you're probably running over fish you can't see - and ruining them for others... I do the same thing when I'm running north or south along the Gulf coast from Cape Sable all the way up to Lostmans (except in places where you have to run inshore - 'cause that's the only place where there's enough water -when the alternative takes you four miles out...). Whenever you encounter other boats - look to see where they're headed (whether poling or staked out) and make a point of not stopping right in front of them (and cutting off their fishing...). If I want to fish I'll make a point of either setting in behind them - or clearing well outside of them and not setting up myself unless I'm at least a quarter mile in front of them... Markers and wrecks deserve a special mention as well... I figure that any marker is a public spot - but if you're there first I'll either wait nearby until you finish - or just give it a pass and come back later... Horning in on another guys' spot (unless it's just a place where everyone nets livebait...) - just isn't right as far as I'm concerned.

I know I'm probably dreaming - but a little courtesy goes a long way... and I try to communicate that to anyone that fishes with me. There ought to be a special corner of a very dark hot place for anyone that deliberately ruins another guy's fishing... Yes, there are times when you come around a corner and find someone you couldn't see there - but it's never deliberate. The only time I ever get a bit cranky with someone that demands you not come near them when they're anchored or staked up... is when they're in a channel that everyone needs to get through an area.... Places like Chokoloskee with tiny, very shallow channels, get their share of idiots in paddle craft that deliberately stay in a channel when they can float just fine out of it..... forcing any skiff with a motor to drop off of plane when they simply won't be able to get running again afterwards in that same channel.... Have that happen to you a couple of times and finally you won't slow down for them.... Another of those "ask me how I know" moments I'm afraid...

My last word on this is pretty simple... I think that every guide ought to have his (or her) name clearly displayed on the side of the boat they work out of so that everyone can identify them at a glance... I won't ever ask that this be mandatory - it's just my opinion - and how I roll.... I'm pretty certain some of the worst offenders around are a few guides who clearly prefer to stay "anonymous" during their days on the water.... For some it's only an attempt to be able to fish without losing every spot they have to someone who notices a guide working a spot that they will then come back and hammer (to the point that it is no longer a "spot" at all...). For others it's an opportunity to break the rules and treat others badly.... Pretty certain having the guide's name on that skiff might just change some behaviors that I've seen....

Since I'll fish seven days a week if I have anglers (no guide ever has enough bookings...) I do have to cope with weekends... Are there some places I won't even consider fishing on a Saturday? You betcha... 

Fortunately the area I fish out of Flamingo is easily 20 miles east to west by 40 miles north to south (and that's just from the ramp out to the gulf coast through the interior and the area from Cape Sable up to Lostman's) - and all the interior rivers, creeks, and bays.... so for me - I always have places where we might not see another skiff all day long.... Don't think I'd like to fish places where there's too many others on too many days... doesn't sound like much fun at all...


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Capt. LeMay summed it up: Treat others as you want to be treated. Unfortunately, the Golden Rule is not the way society operates these days. This is one of those "inside baseball" topics. Most of us get it because of the style of fishing we enjoy, respect for others and the marine environment. Those who don't either are ignorant, don't give a damn or both.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Good weather weekends, I know going into those to avoid any celebrated shorelines or reefs. I’d rather try and scrounge up a few in some forgotten corner someplace than constantly fight and jockey around in the high traffic spots. 

There’s a lot of exposed or barely submerged reef here and that structure can offer some protection, at least from the high horsepower cruising boats, jet fleas, and the like. 

I’ve said things to people trying to educate them on space. Had big, ugly shouting matches, been a hair away from punches thrown, but I don’t think that’s a smart way to go. Sarcasm usually doesn’t work either. I was wading fly fishing in the weekday offseason surf and not another soul around for hundreds of yards when someone walks out of my blind spot behind me 15 feet to the rear and right. “Oh, I guess you didn’t see me fishing here?” Blank look. Then I say “that’s a real good way to get a hook in your ear walking up behind me like that” all I get is a shoulder shrug. 

Rods bent by fish attract potlickers, that’s what attracted the previous guy, so I’ll put the rod in the water if I have a fish on at the moment a boat is passing. 

The crowds with the ignorance and rude behavior are here to stay. It’s a given. I work on picking my fishing spots that put me as far away from them as possible or otherwise make it difficult to get into my space.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I've been fortunate enough to live right on the water for 23 years. In that time, I've seen just about everything from people plowing through our canal, boats doing circles around us while we were drifting, the classic zoom up and chunk the anchor, air boat idiocy ad nauseum, the Bayliner cruiser with stern drive trying to get in/off the flats, and all the boat ramp antics you can imagine.

While I have the ability to fish mostly during the week, which minimizes most of the idiots, I still get burned, potlicked, disrespected. After all the years of hollering and bitching at the other boats, I just shake my head and keep fishing or I'll just leave. It isn't worth the energy for me to get all pissed off and run my blood pressure up. Very often when I get burned, within a five or so minutes the fish will bite again if we are on the open flats. If we are in the back lakes, the fish will get blown out so we just move. I like fishing and being on the water too much to fish angry.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

MariettaMike said:


> hmmm
> 
> Anonymity fuels some inconsiderate behavior on the water, and much of the rest is due to ignorance.
> 
> ...





jay.bush1434 said:


> I've been fortunate enough to live right on the water for 23 years. In that time, I've seen just about everything from people plowing through our canal, boats doing circles around us while we were drifting, the classic zoom up and chunk the anchor, air boat idiocy ad nauseum, the Bayliner cruiser with stern drive trying to get in/off the flats, and all the boat ramp antics you can imagine.
> 
> While I have the ability to fish mostly during the week, which minimizes most of the idiots, I still get burned, potlicked, disrespected. After all the years of hollering and bitching at the other boats, I just shake my head and keep fishing or I'll just leave. It isn't worth the energy for me to get all pissed off and run my blood pressure up. Very often when I get burned, within a five or so minutes the fish will bite again if we are on the open flats. If we are in the back lakes, the fish will get blown out so we just move. I like fishing and being on the water too much to fish angry.


I’d probably be easier going if I got to fish that much and had it that accessible. My trips right now are few and far between so it’s kind of like having your trashy drunk cousin’s girlfriend farting at Christmas dinner when you do dumb shit on the water that compromises the area I’m on.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

I have never seen a society degenerate at such a fast pace in my 61 years of life as I have seen ours do. Human depravity is devastating to the things once respected. Someone else suggested it--one problem is rightly called the "web". We are trapped by the towers that make our communication possible. Just think about that. One post going viral can infect millions in minutes. Civilization is as uncivil as we can imagine. As Captain Bob LeMay posted, common curtesy should-but unfortunately does not-seem to apply these days. Used to be, if you could tell the color of the other skiff you were too close. On Saturday morning, I was working the mouth of a river where I was following a large school of black drum. I saw a bay boat maneuvering through the narrow channel towards the river mouth, fearing the boat would come ripping up the river, blowing out the school. I waved my arms frantically and luckily they stopped at the mouth. Thankfully I guess they figured I was working a school. These days, I would not have been surprised if they ran on past while giving the middle digit for staring them down as they passed. Pray for revival in this country--I think that's all that will ever lead to change.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

jay.bush1434 said:


> often when I get burned, within a five or so minutes the fish will bite again if we are on the open flats.


No doubt the inconsiderate or those that don't know can get the blood pressure up, but I wonder how the fish really react. I lived in a town that had what many would consider a blue ribbon trout stream running right through it. During the summer when it got warm, it attracted the towns kids, now out of school, and their inner tubes and various inflatable's. About the time you would start getting fish, along would come a raft of kids splashing with arms and legs flaying. However, many times after resting the water for a few, the fish would start hitting again. I think the fish get somewhat accustomed to a certain amount of noises and commotion. Kinda like we do if you live where there is traffic. You learn to tune it out. No doubt, skinny water is different, and spooked fish will move.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Almost every trip out I have some sort of issue if not multiple issues. People trying to motor around you on the tm to fish ahead of you on the flat you have been poling, having folks motor in and cut you off, getting buzzed, folks trying to fish right next to you, jet skis.... We live in a narcissistic society and in the fishing world it seems to be exponentially worse. Someone mentioned the social media platforms. People will do anything to post a photo with a 23" redfish, it's freaking ridiculous. The ones that piss me off the most are the ones that fly or sight fish and you expect common courtesy from. I don't have high expectations from the rest of the circus.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> An airboat can run on land, down the highway, wherever it wants. They sometimes unload their airboats in the boat ramp parking lot and run them into the water from their parking spot, it’s easier than trying to get one off the trailer that way I guess. They are all over the place down here especially right now during duck season. Used to only see them this time of year but people started running airboats year round so they are all over.


Seems like the airboat guys here in our area aren't as bad. Most of them behave pretty well. They're just obnoxious because they're so loud, but I guess that can't be helped. All of my bad experiences have been with tower boats and jet skis.


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## Haulinvols (Feb 25, 2019)

As someone said earlier, it isn't just a problem on the flats. I fish the flats at our place in Florida and fish small lakes and rivers here at home and I have had to deal with a lack of etiquette everywhere. I do believe that as with most problems in this country, it is driven by the "I'm entitled to whatever I want" crowd.


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## Skiff Man (Dec 2, 2019)

Sounds about right for mosquito lagoon! So much has changed my kids have a hard time believing the pictures they see at the house. Everyone is out for themselves and etiquette has left the lagoon


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

crboggs said:


> Have only seen one Dargel here in the Tampa area...and sure enough he hole jumped us and blocked the back bay we had poled into on a rising tide. I idled out and past him with the big ole Jack Foreman prop chattering the whole time before exchanging pleasantries and jumping up on plane.
> 
> You guys can keep that TX cat bullshit over on your side of the gulf, we don't need it here.


Don't forget waiting on a slow incoming for an hour just to get back there when he couldn't get within a couple football fields. We waited anyway and as soon as there was enough water we went in. One way in and one way out. He came right in and blocked it off with his livewell bait goog's.


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## Frank Ucci (Jan 20, 2019)

eightwt said:


> No doubt the inconsiderate or those that don't know can get the blood pressure up, but I wonder how the fish really react. I lived in a town that had what many would consider a blue ribbon trout stream running right through it. During the summer when it got warm, it attracted the towns kids, now out of school, and their inner tubes and various inflatable's. About the time you would start getting fish, along would come a raft of kids splashing with arms and legs flaying. However, many times after resting the water for a few, the fish would start hitting again. I think the fish get somewhat accustomed to a certain amount of noises and commotion. Kinda like we do if you live where there is traffic. You learn to tune it out. No doubt, skinny water is different, and spooked fish will move.


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## Frank Ucci (Jan 20, 2019)

eightwt, I think the difference is that the fish in a trout stream are hanging out in areas that they are comfortable with and the presence of noisy humans is a temporary distraction. Fish that have moved up on a shallow flat looking for an easy meal KNOW that they are not safe up there. They are sitting ducks for ospreys, pelicans, sharks, etc. If they sense anything out of the ordinary, they will leave the flat at anywhere from a slow saunter to a balls-out sprint. And nothing short of dynamite will clear a flat quicker than the sound of an outboard motor.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Reading what others have said I guess those of us that fish Everglades National Park are pretty fortunate since jet skis and airboats aren’t allowed there...

Sounds to me like some regs are needed to keep those kind of rigs out of places where most folks are fishing...


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

lemaymiami said:


> Reading what others have said I guess those of us that fish Everglades National Park are pretty fortunate since jet skis and airboats aren’t allowed there...
> 
> Sounds to me like some regs are needed to keep those kind of rigs out of places where most folks are fishing...


AGREE 100%! I think we have found the beginning of a great solution! A good start anyway.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

lemaymiami said:


> Reading what others have said I guess those of us that fish Everglades National Park are pretty fortunate since jet skis and airboats aren’t allowed there...
> 
> Sounds to me like some regs are needed to keep those kind of rigs out of places where most folks are fishing...





commtrd said:


> AGREE 100%! I think we have found the beginning of a great solution! A good start anyway.


Thankfully no jet skis or air boats in the Mosquito Lagoon National Wildlife Refuge area but plenty of other vessels that have ignorant or inconsiderate operators.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Skiff Man said:


> Sounds about right for mosquito lagoon! So much has changed my kids have a hard time believing the pictures they see at the house. Everyone is out for themselves and etiquette has left the lagoon


Yup. I haven't been there since 2012. Between the fecal color, the lack of grass and the high influx of a-holes I've retreated to harder to find waters.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

I am in my 3rd. decade of being a full time fly fishing guide. Over that time the changes in attitude and behavior that I see on the water is incredible.

I would also like to point out that I guide and or fish most every day and my time is in some of the most heavily fished waters anywhere. Half the year guiding Trout in the Upper Delaware River System and Half on the flats in Tampa Bay.

Every year the shit show gets worse and I have a good idea why.

When us older guys were first getting our feet wet we were mentored by parents, friends or others that we looked up to. We learned quickly what was right and wrong and when we went out of bounds we got our wings clipped. Many of us fished with a steady group which often involved fishing and hunting clubs, camps etc. We learned slowly and climbed the ranks respectfully.

For about a decade now most young anglers getting started are mentored by YouTube, Facebook, Instagram etc. They know everything before they wet the line and influencing them is a challenge. Many of the beginner anglers that I encounter in my fly shop and on the water have arrogance well beyond their years.

The new generation gets their satisfaction interacting with thousands of strangers and anyone they encounter on the water is barely recognized. Doesn't matter who you are or what you are doing. You and I are irrelevant in their world.

Just a few weeks ago I had 2 clients working a mangrove shoreline that was alive with action. We were hooking up steadily and it did not take long for us to attract attention. On this particular day both of my clients were studs. Lots of time on the water and long casts were no problem. I had them paralleling the shore 100 ft. out. In comes a boat with 4 anglers. Full speed right until he stops which is about 100 ft off my stern. He drops his trolling motor and passes between us and the shore and then continues to fish the entire length of the island in the direction I was poling. He essentially cut us off and blew the fish out of the area.

In these situations I normally say nothing. I believe that any confrontation is bad business and has the potential to cast a shadow over my clients entire day. I also know that the people on his boat are potential new customers for me and calling someone out is rarely a good introduction. I do however remember the boat and it's captain and try to educate them on etiquette and plain old common courtesy at a later date. When I approach them it is always respectful and conducted in a manner that encourages them to to be more aware of others. 

I also expect all of the guides on my staff to conduct themselves in the same manner.

I did run into the guy who cut us off a week later at the ramp. I was able to speak to him privately without my clients and his friends. I explained how I was working the shoreline including the direction I was heading. I told him that his actions blew the area and really made a bad impression on out of town anglers who were spending a lot of money locally during their vacation. I also made a point to explain to him that I did not call him out on the water and embarrass him. Many time they do not realize their actions are wrong.

I also told him that I would never consider fishing an area where someone else has already set up and that he should consider doing the same in the future. I also offered him a little information about the spot. When and why the fish use it and how to approach it in the future. I also made it clear that it was a one boat spot and that most all good spots are.

In this instance he got the point and and has become a friendly acquaintance since.

For me interaction at the boat ramp has been the best place to make contact with people I observe doing dumb things. I also always try to strike up conversation with younger anglers whenever they seem willing. 

Just what works for me.

Ken


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## topnative2 (Feb 22, 2009)

Ken T said:


> I am in my 3rd. decade of being a full time fly fishing guide. Over that time the changes in attitude and behavior that I see on the water is incredible.
> 
> I would also like to point out that I guide and or fish most every day and my time is in some of the most heavily fished waters anywhere. Half the year guiding Trout in the Upper Delaware River System and Half on the flats in Tampa Bay.
> 
> ...


Well Done.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I don’t understand how you could possibly meet these people at the ramp to talk to them unless you’re within sight of the ramp and they just happen to be headed in when they pull their nonsense. Must be a rare occurence.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Here is how Smack. You just wait for them at ramp. If it turns out they are bigger, you quickly take a new approach or just leave. Can’t say what Ken does. But I think he hit the nail on the head with what is going on.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Agree with Capt. Ken. Social media has done more harm to society--and fishing--than good.


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

Here's a couple of questions. Let's say I enter a decent size, generally circular lagoon or lake. There are several boats poling the banks. I look to assess what direction they are working and try to find a place to fit into the picture. They are all moving counter clockwise. How much distance would you say would be enough to fit in without being a jerk. 

If there is a mile in between 2 boats, is that enough space to slide in respectfully, or would that be considered cutting off someone's drift? What's a good distance?

I am working the banks of a mangrove island. I come around a bend in the island and another boat is working toward me the same distance from shore. Is there a standard practice for who moves out and away and who stays on course?


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

dranrab said:


> Here's a couple of questions. Let's say I enter a decent size, generally circular lagoon or lake. There are several boats poling the banks. I look to assess what direction they are working and try to find a place to fit into the picture. They are all moving counter clockwise. How much distance would you say would be enough to fit in without being a jerk.
> 
> If there is a mile in between 2 boats, is that enough space to slide in respectfully, or would that be considered cutting off someone's drift? What's a good distance?
> 
> I am working the banks of a mangrove island. I come around a bend in the island and another boat is working toward me the same distance from shore. Is there a standard practice for who moves out and away and who stays on course?


I would say if you lep frog anyone or try to cut between them than you are cutting them off just my opinion.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Just put yourself in the other person’s place and if it would upset you then don’t do it. 
I’ll get on a shoreline and pole for several miles sometimes. If someone runs around me and starts poling a hundred yards in front of me they are in the wrong. There are plenty of places for people to fish without doing that inconsiderate crap to another angler. Drifting is different, if several boats are drifting structure or a flat they more than likely already have a chain going so get in the back of the line, don’t try to squeeze between boats and “cut in line”. If you are poling around an island and come up on someone that is coming towards you then one person needs to be the bigger man and pole or drift well away, idle out and get on plane well away from the area. Nothing pisses me off more than a guy that cranks up and hole shots close to my boat while I’m fishing. Just be considerate!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Capnredfish said:


> Here is how Smack. You just wait for them at ramp. If it turns out they are bigger, you quickly take a new approach or just leave. Can’t say what Ken does. But I think he hit the nail on the head with what is going on.


I have better things to do with my time than wait around at the ramp for some googan that might not even be loading up at that ramp or is still fishing for another few hours. The only way you’d know where they launched and when they will be coming in to load up is if you are a stalker or know them.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

dranrab said:


> I am working the banks of a mangrove island. I come around a bend in the island and another boat is working toward me the same distance from shore. Is there a standard practice for who moves out and away and who stays on course?


Hard to get upset in that situation, since there is really no foul there. Both areas have been effectively fished at that point, so I'll typically pole out away from the edge and start thinking about where to make my next move.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> The only way you’d know where they launched and when they will be coming in to load up is if you are a stalker or know them.


Or if there are limited ramps or points of access in the area. 

We ran across two new tech skiffs on Saturday (A Beavertail Micro and what looked like a Cayo from a distance.) I know they didn't launch from my home ramp because neither could run skinny enough to navigate that creek on that day's tide. (It was tight in my Spear..) So I could tell you with 95% certainty which of two options they'd launched from.

The word is out amongst the locals about the new skiffs, but no negative reports so far.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Ken T said:


> I am in my 3rd. decade of being a full time fly fishing guide. Over that time the changes in attitude and behavior that I see on the water is incredible.
> 
> I would also like to point out that I guide and or fish most every day and my time is in some of the most heavily fished waters anywhere. Half the year guiding Trout in the Upper Delaware River System and Half on the flats in Tampa Bay.
> 
> ...


Well said!


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I have better things to do with my time than wait around at the ramp for some googan that might not even be loading up at that ramp or is still fishing for another few hours. The only way you’d know where they launched and when they will be coming in to load up is if you are a stalker or know them.


I do as well. But you did ask. I gave you an example of how the encounter may happen. We have so few ramps here it is not hard to recognize someone around here


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

*The Road Not Taken *
BY ROBERT FROST
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
-------------
When I became of age to be allowed to travel away from home alone I'd already been "indoctrinated" by my father to cherish places off the beaten path. Over the decades that's become a challenge in that the population in my state and Florida has doubled but the amount of real estate has remained the same.

There has always been some undesirables out and about and always will.

You may want to go in the "off season", during less than nice weather, harder to get to places, somewhere around the next bend.

And find some twat in your place...
Then sometimes not.


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

A sort of derail and may be a topic for another post, but I am curious to know how many of you have changed your tactics due to this lack of etiquette on the flats?

For me, there are areas I will not fish in the Jacksonville area, especially during the afternoons. It also has me targeting deeper creeks where the fish are not as easily spooked. For those of you who fish where it's primarily on flats, have you adjusted to fish deeper banks, man made structure, edges of flats, etc. for reds, or have you started fishing for different species altogether?


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## fishnpreacher (Jul 28, 2018)

Don't think its just flats and boats. A little common sense and common courtesy go a long way. 
I was trout fishing a small mountain creek and a comes wading downstream. He looked like he had just stepped out of the Orvis catalog. Instead of getting out of the creek, he comes right on downstream, and stops right in the run I was fishing. I was trying to stay out of the creek to avoid spooking fish, and numbnuts parks right in front of me. I just sat back and watched, and after about 10 casts, he says, "no fish in here, we ought to be fishing **** creek. It got stocked yesterday." I waited for him to stomp on off downstream, gave the run about 20 minutes to settle down, and caught a few more fish from it before heading in.
It's not the boat or equipment, it's the jerk holding the rod, or steeringwheel.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

windblows said:


> A sort of derail and may be a topic for another post, but I am curious to know how many of you have changed your tactics due to this lack of etiquette on the flats?
> 
> For me, there are areas I will not fish in the Jacksonville area, especially during the afternoons. It also has me targeting deeper creeks where the fish are not as easily spooked. For those of you who fish where it's primarily on flats, have you adjusted to fish deeper banks, man made structure, edges of flats, etc. for reds, or have you started fishing for different species altogether?


I’m not changing the way I fish to acclimate idiots. I can still find and catch fish in the normal areas just have to be aggressive enough to deter as many fools as possible to do so. If I’m wading an area I’ll stake the boat out where it will at least somewhat block shoreline burners and potlickers from running over the area I’m fishing.
It’s a shame people think or even have the thought cross their mind that they have to change the way they fish to allow people to ruin their time on the water.
This kind of reminds me of the Canadian kook that started the thread basically stating he doesn’t like what he reads on this forum so the moderators need to change some things...what a joke.


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## Zika (Aug 6, 2015)

Don't sugarcoat it, Smack. Tell us what you really think.


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

My little diddly was that when you go somewhere relativity easy to get to or an hour or so from where you launch, there are so many people that the chances increase proportionally that you may run across (or be run over) by a clueless $41t... 

There still are epic times to be had just not as easy or as many.


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## windblows (May 21, 2014)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m not changing the way I fish to acclimate idiots. I can still find and catch fish in the normal areas just have to be aggressive enough to deter as many fools as possible to do so. If I’m wading an area I’ll stake the boat out where it will at least somewhat block shoreline burners and potlickers from running over the area I’m fishing.
> It’s a shame people think or even have the thought cross their mind that they have to change the way they fish to allow people to ruin their time on the water.
> This kind of reminds me of the Canadian kook that started the thread basically stating he doesn’t like what he reads on this forum so the moderators need to change some things...what a joke.


I guess what I am saying is that I sense so much frustration in this thread. For me to avoid such frustration, I have modified tactics a bit to give me the best chance of maximizing my time on the water. It doesn't mean drastically but it has made me fish a bit differently than I did 20 years ago and beyond.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

I've left the area I used to fish 90% of the time. Drive further.
Still idiots where I go now (opposite coast) but at least they're different idiots so I get to see new ways of being an idiot. East coast - they plow up seagrass beds on the way to passing withing 50 yds of you. West coast they rocket past you in a tower boat before slamming an oyster bar. I kinda get more of a kick out of the latter.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

dranrab said:


> Here's a couple of questions. Let's say I enter a decent size, generally circular lagoon or lake. There are several boats poling the banks. I look to assess what direction they are working and try to find a place to fit into the picture. They are all moving counter clockwise. How much distance would you say would be enough to fit in without being a jerk.
> 
> If there is a mile in between 2 boats, is that enough space to slide in respectfully, or would that be considered cutting off someone's drift? What's a good distance?
> 
> I am working the banks of a mangrove island. I come around a bend in the island and another boat is working toward me the same distance from shore. Is there a standard practice for who moves out and away and who stays on course?


Im not a pro by any means, but if Im going around a island and there is someone else right there, I just leave. 

A mile is a long way, I think if you poled in between a couple boats in a populated area at range. I meant thats like 1000 yards. If your motoring in there like a jackass it might piss them off. Some people will never have enough room, but if I am way out in the everglades and see another boat I just leave, but if I am in Marathon like 200-300 yards if we aren't moving towards each other. 

I had a bait fishing guide rip me a new one at the ramp for going to close to him while he was with a client, I was like 200 ft away from him but he had posted up like in Vaca cut. Its not that wide. I guy told me that when your fishing on the ocean side there its 300 ft or more and always behind. So I dunno, I just avoid people in general.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m not changing the way I fish to acclimate idiots. I can still find and catch fish in the normal areas just have to be aggressive enough to deter as many fools as possible to do so. If I’m wading an area I’ll stake the boat out where it will at least somewhat block shoreline burners and potlickers from running over the area I’m fishing.
> It’s a shame people think or even have the thought cross their mind that they have to change the way they fish to allow people to ruin their time on the water.
> This kind of reminds me of the Canadian kook that started the thread basically stating he doesn’t like what he reads on this forum so the moderators need to change some things...what a joke.


I basically agree, but I do think that a lot of people get their panties in a bunch for no reason, sometimes you don't even notice people. When Im poling by myself Im totally off in space just like staring at the water.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

this is why i fish at night during the week.... leaving da ramp.
just wave and smile....


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

windblows said:


> A sort of derail and may be a topic for another post, but I am curious to know how many of you have changed your tactics due to this lack of etiquette on the flats?


Retire early so you can fish during the week. 

Leave your skiff on the trailer/lift on weekends & holidays.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Drifter said:


> I had a bait fishing guide rip me a new one at the ramp for going to close to him while he was with a client, I was like 200 ft away from him but he had posted up like in Vaca cut.


*lol* Bait fishing? Vaca Cut? And he's bitching about coming too close? Dude is a moron.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

crboggs said:


> *lol* Bait fishing? Vaca Cut? And he's bitching about coming too close? Dude is a moron.


When I went back he followed me and it was the first day out, I was just at the gulf side park there, I went around that rock because I wasn't familiar with the cut across and he gunned it through there and went like 40 ft in front of my boat and stopped in front of the dock. Then just waited for me to get out, just me and my wife. I literally never went closer to him then 200 ft, he was posted up where that long flat on the ocean side comes to a point. But yeah thats what I mean though, I tried to tell him sorry, had never even been there before but he was such a dick talking over me I just stopped talking. Walk past him and went to my truck with him right behind me chewin on me about how he's been a guide there for 20 years. He's lucky my wife was there because if it was just one of my friends we probably would have changed the situation pretty quick.

The next day I was at Little Torch by myself and was putting in after another guy by himself and he said "hey man I should get your number and maybe we wouldn't have to be out fishing by ourselves!" So I did and he texted me a newspaper story about Montanans coming down and following people to good spots lol.

Really set my Keys tone.


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## Ken T (Dec 10, 2015)

Just to clear up what I meant in my earlier post.

In instances where I have an issue with someone on the water or observe someone displaying poor etiquette, I try to remember them. Remembering them personally or their boat allows me to possibly speak to them in the future if the opportunity presents itself.

Most often you will have these meetings at boat ramps. Many times it has taken months or more than a year before I run into someone and have the opportunity to speak to them. Sometimes the opportunity never arises.

What we skinny water fishermen do on the water is a solitary endeavor or one shared with a very small group. The possibility of socializing on the water is unlikely. If we choose to try to correct poor etiquette or influence new anglers boat launches are the most likely place to get it done.

Ken


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Drifter said:


> I basically agree, but I do think that a lot of people get their panties in a bunch for no reason, sometimes you don't even notice people. When Im poling by myself Im totally off in space just like staring at the water.





Ken T said:


> Just to clear up what I meant in my earlier post.
> 
> In instances where I have an issue with someone on the water or observe someone displaying poor etiquette, I try to remember them. Remembering them personally or their boat allows me to possibly speak to them in the future if the opportunity presents itself.
> 
> ...


That makes sense. Some of these guys truly are just oblivious, new to fishing and receptive to constructive criticism.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Drifter said:


> When I went back he followed me and it was the first day out, I was just at the gulf side park there, I went around that rock because I wasn't familiar with the cut across and he gunned it through there and went like 40 ft in front of my boat and stopped in front of the dock. Then just waited for me to get out, just me and my wife. I literally never went closer to him then 200 ft, he was posted up where that long flat on the ocean side comes to a point. But yeah thats what I mean though, I tried to tell him sorry, had never even been there before but he was such a dick talking over me I just stopped talking. Walk past him and went to my truck with him right behind me chewin on me about how he's been a guide there for 20 years. He's lucky my wife was there because if it was just one of my friends we probably would have changed the situation pretty quick.
> 
> The next day I was at Little Torch by myself and was putting in after another guy by himself and he said "hey man I should get your number and maybe we wouldn't have to be out fishing by ourselves!" So I did and he texted me a newspaper story about Montanans coming down and following people to good spots lol.
> 
> Really set my Keys tone.


Don't get too offended, carpetbaggers come from all over, not just Montana  haha jk.

There are quite a few transient guides that fish the summer in N. FL, the only time I've ever said anything to anyone on the water was to a Tarpon guide. I'm up anchored in position on the beach when it's still dark. Here comes the guide with his client about 8am, gets on the hook dead on my line like 200' to the East of me (fish are moving East to West) so there's no way the fish are going to be calmed down, back together and happy until well behind me.

I popped my anchor and left it on the buoy, motored over and told him he was too close, his response was "I saw you were solo so I figured you were just 'fun fishing'". I told him he was right I was just fun fishing, and I am solo, but I take off work, and spend a ton of money on my boat and equipment to come do it, and that I take it pretty serious. He moved farther down the beach out of sight, without issue, but it aggravated me that because I didn't have a client with me that it was ok in his mind to do that.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

LowHydrogen said:


> Don't get too offended, carpetbaggers come from all over, not just Montana  haha jk.
> 
> There are quite a few transient guides that fish the summer in N. FL, the only time I've ever said anything to anyone on the water was to a Tarpon guide. I'm up anchored in position on the beach when it's still dark. Here comes the guide with his client about 8am, gets on the hook dead on my line like 200' to the East of me (fish are moving East to West) so there's no way the fish are going to be calmed down, back together and happy until well behind me.
> 
> I popped my anchor and left it on the buoy, motored over and told him he was too close, his response was "I saw you were solo so I figured you were just 'fun fishing'". I told him he was right I was just fun fishing, and I am solo, but I take off work, and spend a ton of money on my boat and equipment to come do it, and that I take it pretty serious. He moved farther down the beach out of sight, without issue, but it aggravated me that because I didn't have a client with me that it was ok in his mind to do that.


I really don’t understand what goes through these people’s brain that makes them think like that?


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## mro (Jan 24, 2018)

I gave up confronting the maroons probably before some of you guys were born. Pretty much ignore em. If I'm fighting a fish and someone is passing by I'll stick my rod in the water so they can't tell whats going on. If I loose it, it's no big deal to me there's always another.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Wow seeing all these postings all reflecting the exact same problems independent of geography, it is apparent that there is a real problem and it's everywhere. And also it does not seem that there are any real solutions other than just basically being on the water at times when everyone else is not there. So the solution: fish only at night during the week. Heck fishing might even be better with 90%+ fewer morons moving around the flats on boats. It might come to this...


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Most folks are distance challenged so a general frame of reference would be more helpful than 200 yards or 1/2 mile or any distance (esp on the water). Maybe that frame of reference is being able to read registration numbers or not. I certainly think that being able to read a phone number on the hull like @MariettaMike is too close.


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## eightwt (May 11, 2017)

LowHydrogen said:


> because I didn't have a client with me that it was ok in his mind to do that.


I read or hear this. Because they're a guide it is assumed they get preferential treatment as they are making a living. The other one I hear is that because they have worked hard to find spots, stay off. To a point, I get this and appreciate the reasoning. But who is to say that a guide was the first to find fish movement? We all spend time on the water, study charts, have friends, and so forth. I will treat guides just as I treat everyone, hopefully with respect and at a respectful distance. Just hope it goes both ways.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

eightwt said:


> I read or hear this. Because they're a guide it is assumed they get preferential treatment as they are making a living. The other one I hear is that because they have worked hard to find spots, stay off. To a point, I get this and appreciate the reasoning. But who is to say that a guide was the first to find fish movement? We all spend time on the water, study charts, have friends, and so forth. I will treat guides just as I treat everyone, hopefully with respect and at a respectful distance. Just hope it goes both ways.


Didn’t you know that these days anyone can be a special boy? People run around in society with this mentality, what would make you think they would be any different on the water? Lots of people have this false construct of fishing where anyone that takes it seriously is an entitled asshole or elitist...we are all just on the water killing time and getting away from our nagging lives? That’s what people tend to believe. We are just out for recreation and no one owns the water so they can run over us. You’ll get your ass beat if you cross the wrong person and go to the grocery store pushing people around, running their kids over with your shopping cart and run down the aisles standing on the cart like it’s a tower boat burning a flat. Just be considerate no matter who is in the other boat.


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## Chopsflyfishes (Aug 26, 2018)

I am glad this has been brought up because as both a young fly angler, and someone who frequently fishes with people who aren't able to fish the salt often, it sets a bad example. The amount of people I see motoring a flat, chasing down schools of tarpon on the beach, and blatantly cutting people off here in Naples/Marco is staggering. People that fish the area between Goodland and the park are marauded by jetskis and other eco tours, and even if you run south into the park you can't get away from people trying to stuff their 26' hybrid bay boat into a creek or onto a flat where my marquesa barely fits, and unfortunately this is not just limited to here. There definitely needs to be more education on how to approach a shoreline, or what to do if someone is already fishing in your spot. More so we need to hold people to a higher standard, as people who know what to do we all can have a part in fixing the errors that people make and helping them understand why it is wrong, not yelling at them. I know I don't have nearly as much experience as most of y'all but that's my 2c.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Ok now it's my turn! 2 sides to every story. Its been a hard semester in college studying the pros of democratic socialism and identifying privilege. I just wanted to go fishing to get away from it all. So I woke up around 9 and was on my way out the door when I had to stop and watch the latest bombshell report on CNN. Finally made it to the bait shop and they were out of squid and frozen shrimp. My luck I spotted a Prius with a coexist and feel the Bern stickers on the back and realized it was my friend from class. He was loading up his yak and offered me the rest of his shrimp. Pressed for time I spotted you (flatbroke) working a shoreline catching them up. A few things crossed my mine. One you are obvious privileged. You are on the water before me, you seem to know the area better than me and your catching fish. So at that point I feel you should realize that and let me on the flat. But you didn't so I rolled up to catch a few fish. Next time you should be more curtious wave me over, offer me half your lunch, tell me what they are biting on and move to another flat so I can catch fish to. I'm discussed and ashamed for you, that you are acting like your the victim. Exactly what the teach us in class. Your so privileged you don't even realize. I hope your see the error in your ways. Tight lines. Sincerely Tarpon Nole.


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Just put yourself in the other person’s place and if it would upset you then don’t do it.
> I’ll get on a shoreline and pole for several miles sometimes. If someone runs around me and starts poling a hundred yards in front of me they are in the wrong. There are plenty of places for people to fish without doing that inconsiderate crap to another angler. Drifting is different, if several boats are drifting structure or a flat they more than likely already have a chain going so get in the back of the line, don’t try to squeeze between boats and “cut in line”. If you are poling around an island and come up on someone that is coming towards you then one person needs to be the bigger man and pole or drift well away, idle out and get on plane well away from the area. Nothing pisses me off more than a guy that cranks up and hole shots close to my boat while I’m fishing. Just be considerate!


Let me feed off of your comments to see if I can get a better sense for what folks consider right and wrong. You mentioned that you will sometimes pole a bank for miles. Let's say you were poling a shoreline where there were boats about every mile or so. Would plugging myself in between boats that are a mile apart be inconsiderate in the minds of the members here? 

In the LA marsh here, we wouldn't be poling a shoreline, we'd be working the bank with our trolling motors. I wouldn't hesitate to put myself in between boats that were a mile apart working the same direction down a bank. That keeps a half mile in between us. I don't know, but I have a sense that would be more of an issue on clear flats in other places. 

Part of the reason I ask is that I am going to treat myself to a long overdue vacation to fish the Florida flats, and I want to have a good sense for how flats fishers think. Beyond that, I will do some exploring by kayak. I have done it in the past and always tried to do the right thing. I rented kayaks at Robbies in Islamorada. I wanted to do some sightseeing on the flats against the island. I came around a bend in the island and there was a flats boat working toward me. There were a few small sandbars and inlets near where we were, so I silently pointed in several directions to ask where he wanted me to go. He motioned me in one direction and I happily went that way. I gave a greater priority to their fishing than my sightseeing. As I started coming back into the shoreline another boat was working in the direction of the cut I wanted to go into to start heading back toward the rental facility. I would arrive at that cut about 400-500 yards ahead of them. I went ahead and quietly made my way toward the cut, hoping I had done the right thing.

There's blatant disrespect, but I think sometimes too people want to do the right thing but aren't certain how.

This is the general area. https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...81d18cc5c799cc!8m2!3d24.8826297!4d-80.6907798


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

Drifter said:


> Im not a pro by any means, but if Im going around a island and there is someone else right there, I just leave.
> 
> A mile is a long way, I think if you poled in between a couple boats in a populated area at range. I meant thats like 1000 yards. If your motoring in there like a jackass it might piss them off. Some people will never have enough room, but if I am way out in the everglades and see another boat I just leave, but if I am in Marathon like 200-300 yards if we aren't moving towards each other.
> 
> I had a bait fishing guide rip me a new one at the ramp for going to close to him while he was with a client, I was like 200 ft away from him but he had posted up like in Vaca cut. Its not that wide. I guy told me that when your fishing on the ocean side there its 300 ft or more and always behind. So I dunno, I just avoid people in general.


You have touched on something that I think is important. Everything is situational and often area dependent. In the South LA waters, some of the best fishing spots are connected by narrow winding bayous. Some of those bayous are fairly long and will have boats fishing all along them. They are in essence channels. I will not normally slow down for those boats. If I am in a more remote area and encounter a boat in a narrow bayou, I will throttle back to idle speed. I have had people in the remote areas wave me on letting me know to stay hooked up, and I have had people in the bayous that serve as major thoroughfares throw their hands up into the air when I motored by at planing speeds.


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## TylertheTrout2 (Apr 21, 2016)

ITS ALL THESE DAMN YANKEES MAN..!!


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Drifter said:


> Really set my Keys tone.


Vaca Cut is a narrow, deep, high current location with lots of boat traffic. Not much you can do there...


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## m32825 (Jun 29, 2018)

>For about a decade now most young anglers getting started 
>are mentored by YouTube, Facebook, Instagram etc.

We need someone to create an app that lets them do all their fishing virtually. It would allow them in-game purchases, like 1" draft, pinpoint casting, invulnerable lower unit, jet ski repellent, and gaudy boat wraps. It would support one-click hero pictures to be posted to all their favorite media sites for consumption by their legions of adoring fans...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

m32825 said:


> >For about a decade now most young anglers getting started
> >are mentored by YouTube, Facebook, Instagram etc.
> 
> We need someone to create an app that lets them do all their fishing virtually. It would allow them in-game purchases, like 1" draft, pinpoint casting, invulnerable lower unit, jet ski repellent, and gaudy boat wraps. It would support one-click hero pictures to be posted to all their favorite media sites for consumption by their legions of adoring fans...


 Believe it or not I’ve had more issues with guys my age and older and lots of silver haired googans that must have been at the helm for the first time.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Here’s a drunk dipshit in a 25 foot bay boat with a 400R on it that ran into a back lake that’s 18” deep chopping bottom the whole way in and tried to turn and get back out and grounded it. I was poling my client and my skiff was touching bottom where we were. We laughed our asses off and continued poling the perimiter. Captain Flatbill got out and waded to the other side while he waited on an airboat to come pull him out. We poled right up to him and Tim caught two reds off a school of tailers less than a hundred feet from him and we carried on a conversation as all this was going on. I asked him a second time if he wanted my buddies cell number to bring his airboat to pull him out for $800 and he said “naa we’re good, we will get out when we want to”. Shit, that boat was 6” under it’s draft and no way in hell they were pushing that tank out 250 yards over sand.


Warms my pea-pickin' heart seeing that bozo stuck; good on him. MF surely deserves it.


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## Dajk (Jul 11, 2018)

Flatbroke426 said:


> ok I never do this but had to so pardon my rant and venting. Spent the day on the flats with my son yesterday. What has happened to having flats etiquette? In the old day people respected each other and used manners. In 4hours I was cut off twice, had people motor the flats with 300hp outboards, have them fire up and power off a flat and enter a flat by motor right where the reds stage and move onto a flat.. all boats had poling platforms but never once used them. Dead low tide fish tailing and they either run a big or electric motor spooking everything in the Area. Even had one guide come up and started throwing a cast net on the fishing flat so he could have his client throw finger mullet at the reds on the same flat he was cast netting. Again never poling but running a huge motor the shallows to get on the mullet. Ok I’m done. Had the scream a bit.


Happens all the time..as far as the guide there are few real guides left, just folks with a 6pack lic takeing customers somewhere so the can impress them with their cast net skills ,.


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## bonehead (Dec 9, 2016)

Try biscayne bay on a nice weekend day... you won’t believe the lack of brain cells out there.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

A couple thoughts. I remember fishing the keys and finding no motor zones. While unfortunately they were, even those 15 years ago, violated at times they helped. Organizing and somehow forcing Fish and wildlife, nonexistent as they are, to create no motor zones would be a wonderful thing. Certainly environmentalists would approve. I fish south west Florida and northeast. SW florida is a joke as far as etiquette and lack of common sense. Thus a skiff that can get to waters others can't makes all the difference - sometimes! And then the northeast. Here I was in the Southern Maine coast launching at 6am. As I launch a guide is putting in. Two miles down the river toward the ocean mouth I found a nice school of strippers near an old cribbing. Guide passes and sees me. I am floating thru picking up one or two stripers per float circle around and float by again. 15 minutes later after picking up his client at the local dock the guide sets up directly in the center of the float and anchors. His guide is a fly guy. Five boats could have done that float. He anchored in the middle and that killed it. I hit the motor and at full throttle made a circle turn that sent a wake into his bow. We met at that dock again three weeks later. That's a better story!!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Dajk said:


> Happens all the time..as far as the guide there are few real guides left, just folks with a 6pack lic takeing customers somewhere so the can impress them with their cast net skills ,.


We have those here too...but they pay $8-10 per dozen for croaker and $20-24 for a quart of live shrimp and take googans on meat hauls two or three trips a day.


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## tx8er (Jun 3, 2016)

Love the super croaker one!


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## flytyn (Aug 21, 2012)

Yep, sometimes you have to rip them a new butthole.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

I fished with a solid artificial only guide in Port Mansfield a while back that had a great bait story. He picks up his clients at the dock and they are waiting on one guy. Capt asks where is the other guy? One guys says, "Oh he's getting a couple dozen croaker." So the soaker finally walks up to the boat and asks the guide if he has a good spot for the bait. Capt Danny says no problem and the guy hands him the bucket and he proceeds to dump the whole thing overboard. Looks at the guy and says, "See? Perfect place for them."


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## Capt. Moose (Dec 12, 2015)

Stop fishing schools of fish with a trolling motor/trolling tabs. 

Surround and pound is lame..


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

jay.bush1434 said:


> I fished with a solid artificial only guide in Port Mansfield a while back that had a great bait story. He picks up his clients at the dock and they are waiting on one guy. Capt asks where is the other guy? One guys says, "Oh he's getting a couple dozen croaker." So the soaker finally walks up to the boat and asks the guide if he has a good spot for the bait. Capt Danny says no problem and the guy hands him the bucket and he proceeds to dump the whole thing overboard. Looks at the guy and says, "See? Perfect place for them."


Awesome story! Last time I visited with a guide I knew from South Padre Island, he told me he quit guiding due to all the other guides pretty much going to soaking bait and vacuum-cleaning most of the fish out of the bay system. He was disgusted, being a hard-core artificial-only and fly fisherman along the lines of Chuck Scates, Scott Sparrow, etc. Kudos to Capt Danny. How awesome would it be if ALL GUIDES were like that? Well it would be a hell of a great start to fixing what is wrong with the meat-haul mentality so damned prevalent in TX saltwater fishing.


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## commtrd (Aug 1, 2015)

Capt. Moose said:


> Stop fishing schools of fish with a trolling motor/trolling tabs.
> 
> Surround and pound is lame..


Should see over in Aransas at times where there will be a "rodeo" of 10 to 30 boats surrounding a school of reds, and these ass hats throw bait on the bottom, and effectively kill an entire school of redfish. Then see them back at the dock, tables stacked high with reds and most going to go right towards freezer burn. Look at that shit and get a sinking feeling, as the fishery is decimated and these assholes are too stupid and could care less to begin to understand what they are doing to the resource. Sad.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

I don't get how they don't get that its not limitless.


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## efi2712micro (Sep 17, 2015)

Drifter said:


> I don't get how they don't get that its not limitless.


It’s somebody else’s problem ....


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## Kirc (Jan 18, 2020)

wow,.....big moons are your friend, get out there learn the area when theres no water, then fish it when the majority of others wont. Eliminates alot (not all) of headaches,...


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## Chad Cohn (Mar 8, 2018)

Not exactly flats etiquette issue but most certainly a fishing etiquette problem. The wife and I were out fishing yesterday on our local lake and you can see that I am working my way up a shoreline and low and behold these 2 asshats literally pull into the exact same area no more than 20-25 yards away. And I am most certain they heard my "colorful" descriptions of them even the wife was colorful. So I keep on the path I had determined to use and I look up and they have changed their course and are now heading at us. More colorful descriptions but when they are no more than 10 yards I hook into a good fish. They make jokes about me catching their fish and proceed to share their story about how they haven't caught anything in 2 days of being on the lake. I nod my head and proceed on and right after they have passed us the motor off, I'm assuming to find someone else catching fish and pulling up next to them. I'm guessing they had to have been watching us because this is an area that I always catch fish in and once they saw me catch a few they decided to "join" in the fun.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

I just fish where others dont. Problem solved.

I cant stand the asshats so it's better to be where they dont go.

That being said I dont pole and am a trolling motor guy.


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## Chad Cohn (Mar 8, 2018)

Our local lake is small so no matter where you go you always run the risk of someone. Most people out there are pretty good but these 2 guys were absolute tools.


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## Haulinvols (Feb 25, 2019)

You know, most of what we would call good fishing etiquette is based on common sense....unfortunately, common sense is getting less common.


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## Chad Cohn (Mar 8, 2018)

Haulinvols said:


> You know, most of what we would call good fishing etiquette is based on common sense....unfortunately, common sense is getting less common.


FACTUAL!!!!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2020)

Chad Cohn said:


> Not exactly flats etiquette issue but most certainly a fishing etiquette problem. The wife and I were out fishing yesterday on our local lake and you can see that I am working my way up a shoreline and low and behold these 2 asshats literally pull into the exact same area no more than 20-25 yards away. And I am most certain they heard my "colorful" descriptions of them even the wife was colorful. So I keep on the path I had determined to use and I look up and they have changed their course and are now heading at us. More colorful descriptions but when they are no more than 10 yards I hook into a good fish. They make jokes about me catching their fish and proceed to share their story about how they haven't caught anything in 2 days of being on the lake. I nod my head and proceed on and right after they have passed us the motor off, I'm assuming to find someone else catching fish and pulling up next to them. I'm guessing they had to have been watching us because this is an area that I always catch fish in and once they saw me catch a few they decided to "join" in the fun.


You should have sent them an invoice for your "guide fee"!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2020)

7WT said:


> A couple thoughts. I remember fishing the keys and finding no motor zones. While unfortunately they were, even those 15 years ago, violated at times they helped. Organizing and somehow forcing Fish and wildlife, nonexistent as they are, to create no motor zones would be a wonderful thing. Certainly environmentalists would approve. I fish south west Florida and northeast. SW florida is a joke as far as etiquette and lack of common sense. Thus a skiff that can get to waters others can't makes all the difference - sometimes! And then the northeast. Here I was in the Southern Maine coast launching at 6am. As I launch a guide is putting in. Two miles down the river toward the ocean mouth I found a nice school of strippers near an old cribbing. Guide passes and sees me. I am floating thru picking up one or two stripers per float circle around and float by again. 15 minutes later after picking up his client at the local dock the guide sets up directly in the center of the float and anchors. His guide is a fly guy. Five boats could have done that float. He anchored in the middle and that killed it. I hit the motor and at full throttle made a circle turn that sent a wake into his bow. We met at that dock again three weeks later. That's a better story!!


I want to hear the second chapter!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2020)

Ken T said:


> I am in my 3rd. decade of being a full time fly fishing guide. Over that time the changes in attitude and behavior that I see on the water is incredible.
> 
> I would also like to point out that I guide and or fish most every day and my time is in some of the most heavily fished waters anywhere. Half the year guiding Trout in the Upper Delaware River System and Half on the flats in Tampa Bay.
> 
> ...


Ken, very well said! It would be great if everyone could read your post [both guides and googans].


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

OK Mike,
So I figured at some point I would run into that guide. Sure enough about three weeks later I am launching my boat early about 5 am and here he comes. The long dock has two sides. Of course he is launching on the "Take Out Only" side. But it is 5 am and no one is taking out. No foul. As I walk past him on the dock to drive up my truck, boat now in, I say "Good Morning"- he says nothing. Walking back on the dock to my boat after parking he stops me and says "What the h___ do you think you were doing?" I say "The question is what were you doing?" You knew I was there, you could have easily joined in the float with me instead of anchoring in the middle of the sweet spot!" He say's "I had a new fly guy and wanted to anchor to make it easier for him." I say " Easier, no floating is easier and more stable than that tide and you know it. You were just taking the spot. You could have gone across to the other side at that flat if you wanted to do that." He says "Who are you anyway" I introduce myself and tell him I have a house just up the road and that I occasionally write fishing articles. He then goes on to tell me that fish are out around the point toward One Mile stretch at the nunnery (spoiler alert). Rest of story: I see him quite often on the water with his clients- often bait fishing- he never says hi except once when his guy caught a 48 incher- he couldn't help himself that time. Neither of us got wet at the dock though I was ready at the outset!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2020)

7WT said:


> OK Mike,
> So I figured at some point I would run into that guide. Sure enough about three weeks later I am launching my boat early about 5 am and here he comes. The long dock has two sides. Of course he is launching on the "Take Out Only" side. But it is 5 am and no one is taking out. No foul. As I walk past him on the dock to drive up my truck, boat now in, I say "Good Morning"- he says nothing. Walking back on the dock to my boat after parking he stops me and says "What the h___ do you think you were doing?" I say "The question is what were you doing?" You knew I was there, you could have easily joined in the float with me instead of anchoring in the middle of the sweet spot!" He say's "I had a new fly guy and wanted to anchor to make it easier for him." I say " Easier, no floating is easier and more stable than that tide and you know it. You were just taking the spot. You could have gone across to the other side at that flat if you wanted to do that." He says "Who are you anyway" I introduce myself and tell him I have a house just up the road and that I occasionally write fishing articles. He then goes on to tell me that fish are out around the point toward One Mile stretch at the nunnery (spoiler alert). Rest of story: I see him quite often on the water with his clients- often bait fishing- he never says hi except once when his guy caught a 48 incher- he couldn't help himself that time. Neither of us got wet at the dock though I was ready at the outset!


It is truly a shame that some guides behave that way. I think that they don't even realize that sometimes their clients figure out what they're doing and file it away for future booking considerations. Glad you took the high ground.


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## Acuna (Sep 4, 2018)

Ugh, can’t stand bad behavior. A lot of it I call “people starring in their own movie”.

Although I am a fly guy I really don’t care if someone uses live bait as long as they stay within the regs. Yes it bugs me when people keep fish just to throw them in the freezer and not eat them in the next day or two (hell even I had a buddy offer me some redfish the other day that had been in his freezer over a year. He doesn’t eat fish but still kept limits of reds on a recent trip), but so long as they are following the law I just get over it. 

However, if you are going to run the bank in a tower boat, herd fish in an airboat, potlick, or just generally be a selfish a___hole, well we will probably have a discussion at some point. I’d like to think at least half of the bad behavior is due to ignorance, but sadly sometimes it just isn’t.


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