# Deciding on a tunnel Skiff for all around rig for Fresh and Sal



## CurtisWright

Is this an aluminum vs glass question? Are there a lot of rocks on the white / north fork? I would think the water would be totally different.

If you have the $$ for two houses, I would recommend one boat for each house. IMO it will be hard to have a boat set up for salt water flats and fresh water trout and not completely suck at both.

If you have to have just one then a 14-16' jon boat type like the SM 1444 with removable poling/casting platforms.


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## N9BOW

CurtisWright said:


> If you have the $$ for two houses, I would recommend one boat for each house. IMO it will be hard to have a boat set up for salt water flats and fresh water trout and not completely suck at both.


After much consideration and the PITA it would be to haul the boat from storage in Arkansas where I trout fish to FLA.
I have come to the same conclusion you have. Now, what to get for the Nature Coast area in FL. I have a thread in the general discussion area on this point. Thanks for your input!

I'll have about 10-18k for a boat for the Nature Coast area.


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## SomaliPirate

In that price range, I'd say a gently used HPX-T if you insist on a tunnel. Just be advised that anywhere from Homossassa to Waccasassa, you're going to get it scratched up and ding up your skeg no matter how careful you are. Don't ask me how I know.


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## N9BOW

SomaliPirate said:


> In that price range, I'd say a gently used HPX-T if you insist on a tunnel. Just be advised that anywhere from Homossassa to Waccasassa, you're going to get it scratched up and ding up your skeg no matter how careful you are. Don't ask me how I know.


Thanks!


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## devrep

I run an old beater waterman tunnel around crystal river. I think its ideal for the mangroves and oyster bars. I see aluminum tunnel hulls out there a lot too.


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## N9BOW

devrep said:


> I run an old beater waterman tunnel around crystal river. I think its ideal for the mangroves and oyster bars. I see aluminum tunnel hulls out there a lot too.


So it sounds like this area is pretty rough on the outboard and hull due to how shallow it gets?


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## devrep

I've trashed 2 props and put a few dings in my skegs (2 skiffs). The tunnel lets you raise the prop up to where it is less likely to get hit. Best thing to do in this area is go out at low tide a couple of times and learn where all the rocks and oyster bars are and plot them on your gps. But always be alert and cautious.


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## Cam

Like all things tunnel hulls have their trade offs. Run shallower but lose draft at rest. We move slow, often use a TM and run with satellite overlays in particularly shallow areas.


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## devrep

a properly designed tunnel loses almost no draft.


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## Vertigo

I've fished the Nature Coast for years and owned just about one of every type boat and motor. While a tunnel hull may let you run more shallow over sand or mud bottoms, it won't get you out of the hole any faster and it won't stop you from hitting rocks just below the surface. The Nature Coast has mud and sand flats, but it's also fully equipped with limestone rock just below the surface. Running at speed in places you don't know, tunnel or not, you're asking for trouble. So here's the tradeoff: a tunnel hull will be marginally slower, draft marginally more, consume a little more fuel and will let you run a few inches more shallow....but if you don't know the territory, running shallow at speed is stupid. If you do know the territory, you can get anywhere you need to go without a tunnel. Because of the rock, an aluminum jon is the choice for a boat. Your choice on tunnel or not. I'd look at 16 to 18 ft. Seaark and G3.


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## N9BOW

Vertigo said:


> I've fished the Nature Coast for years and owned just about one of every type boat and motor. While a tunnel hull may let you run more shallow over sand or mud bottoms, it won't get you out of the hole any faster and it won't stop you from hitting rocks just below the surface. The Nature Coast has mud and sand flats, but it's also fully equipped with limestone rock just below the surface. Running at speed in places you don't know, tunnel or not, you're asking for trouble. So here's the tradeoff: a tunnel hull will be marginally slower, draft marginally more, consume a little more fuel and will let you run a few inches more shallow....but if you don't know the territory, running shallow at speed is stupid. If you do know the territory, you can get anywhere you need to go without a tunnel. Because of the rock, an aluminum jon is the choice for a boat. Your choice on tunnel or not. I'd look at 16 to 18 ft. Seaark and G3.


Good to know! thanks for the input.


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## N9BOW

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.. this is most helpful! Just dropped the coin on the dedicated trout boat for Arkansas! Topwater 2160 with a 60/40 jet. I will definitely be using my Solo Skiff to get a feel for the area and once we settle on a house I will start to look seriously for a bigger boat with all the input so far!


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## devrep

when you move to the nature coast pm me and I'll take you for a trip thru the mangroves.


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## N9BOW

devrep said:


> when you move to the nature coast pm me and I'll take you for a trip thru the mangroves.


Will do! Tnx!


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## Cam

devrep said:


> a properly designed tunnel loses almost no draft.


If the design prevents loss of draft while resting, then the tunnel isn't going to run much if any shallower. The mere fact a boat has a tunnel means it has less surface area for displacement. Add on the slightly slower speed, greater likelihood of a washout, etc... basically if a person doesn't need to run long distances in very shallow water or have fishing spots locked behind ultra shallow water, they are better off with a traditional setup. 

Very little of FL gulf waters are inaccessible by slow motor or TM. As noted by others what little it does have is often filled with any number of obstructions that can cause serious damage. In Texas where the flats are vast and mostly grass, sand and mud, tunnels start to make a lot of sense (well outside of often increased insurance costs). In Florida where an oyster bar or a stump is just under the surface outside of channels, best to use channels then slow motor the rest of the way. That is my opinion anyway.


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## Smackdaddy53

Having a tunnel hull that is set up properly is like having four wheel drive and bigger mud tires. It may not be ideal all the time but when you need it it sure is nice to have. I doubt I will ever own a boat for inshore fishing without a tunnel. Once again it’s just a matter of opinion BUT it seems like a lot of guys sensationalize the very minimal cons of a tunnel. There is another thread about lithium batteries and the weight saved and it’s funny to read what guys that state that a tunnel loses so much draft at rest but turn around and say that 40-60# more battery weight is nothing to worry about. Kind of hipocritical because a typical tunnel only reduces hull displacement by 15-20# which is almost nothing.


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## EdK13

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Having a tunnel hull that is set up properly is like having four wheel drive and bigger mud tires. It may not be ideal all the time but when you need it it sure is nice to have. I doubt I will ever own a boat for inshore fishing without a tunnel. Once again it’s just a matter of opinion BUT it seems like a lot of guys sensationalize the very minimal cons of a tunnel. There is another thread about lithium batteries and the weight saved and it’s funny to read what guys that state that a tunnel loses so much draft at rest but turn around and say that 40-60# more battery weight is nothing to worry about. Kind of hipocritical because a typical tunnel only reduces hull displacement by 15-20# which is almost nothing.


And correct me if I am wrong.. but: 1. Putting "your" tackle bag up front more than makes up for that 15 of 20 lbs of lost displacement  and 2. Its kinda fun being on plane in putt putt mode on 8 inches of water scouting the deep depressions aka those delicious 1 or 2 foot ultra deep areas at low tide when most everyone else is "outside" watching and wishing they could be sight fishing inside....


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## Vertigo

Being on plane with a tunnel in 8" of water is fine, so long as there are no rocks 6" below the surface. We're talking the Nature Coast and that means rocks. Tunnel hulls certainly have advantages in some applications, but maybe not so much around here. I say this as a guy who is currently running a tunnel hull Seaark.

Hit this at high tide.


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## EdK13

Vertigo said:


> Being on plane with a tunnel in 8" of water is fine, so long as there are no rocks 6" below the surface. We're talking the Nature Coast and that means rocks. Tunnel hulls certainly have advantages in some applications, but maybe not so much around here. I say this as a guy is currently running a tunnel hull Seaark.
> 
> Hit this at high tide.


Lived and fished in Florida from 86 till 2007. Some interesting areas north of Tampa. For that area I would be in tin too. Definitely tin as a first boat. Cool picture!


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## devrep

Cam said:


> If the design prevents loss of draft while resting, then the tunnel isn't going to run much if any shallower. The mere fact a boat has a tunnel means it has less surface area for displacement. Add on the slightly slower speed, greater likelihood of a washout, etc... basically if a person doesn't need to run long distances in very shallow water or have fishing spots locked behind ultra shallow water, they are better off with a traditional setup.
> 
> Very little of FL gulf waters are inaccessible by slow motor or TM. As noted by others what little it does have is often filled with any number of obstructions that can cause serious damage. In Texas where the flats are vast and mostly grass, sand and mud, tunnels start to make a lot of sense (well outside of often increased insurance costs). In Florida where an oyster bar or a stump is just under the surface outside of channels, best to use channels then slow motor the rest of the way. That is my opinion anyway.


no offense but you don't know what you are talking about with respect to tunnels. Your logic is correct with the old tunnels that ran the length of the boat.


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## Cam

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Having a tunnel hull that is set up properly is like having four wheel drive and bigger mud tires. It may not be ideal all the time but when you need it it sure is nice to have.


This is not a bad analogy. Would a person rather be more comfortable, draft less off plane, have less technical issues and safer handling or a vehicle that is useful in a specific scenario. That is what a tunnel hull is... trade offs for a very specific scenario.

There is a reason the USCG has issued warnings about them. BTW I routinely fish off a tunnel but I do understand the tradeoffs.


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## Cam

devrep said:


> no offense but you don't know what you are talking about with respect to tunnels. Your logic is correct with the old tunnels that ran the length of the boat.


None taken. My general point is that a boat cannot shorten the keel and indent a sizable portion of the back running pad and not lose some resting draft. It can be minimized probably even to the point we are measuring centimeters but a boat without a tunnel and exactly the same dimensions is in almost any circumstance I can imagine going to draft better off plane.

On a larger point you are all zeroing in on one aspect of what makes a tunnel more problematic. A builder cannot shorten the keel, add a pocket onto the pad and not have some drawbacks. If tunnels have no substantial drawbacks, every boat would have one. I am certainly not saying anything controversial here.


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## SomaliPirate

CR is actually deeper overall than just up north at Cedar Key, the issue is those rocks. I find the tunnel extremely useful in the Cedar Key area. It gets me into airboat and mullet boat country and back out with ease.


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## Smackdaddy53

What is so unsafe about a tunnel hull? This is getting good!


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## commtrd

Run tunnels for what 30 years. Never got hurt once. Now maybe got myself so far back in someplace I should not have been and paid the price... =)


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## Cam

This article does a deep dive on it:

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/as-regulation-lags-texas-flats-boat-casualties-mount-9022115

Boat hulls that have a tunnel keel require some degree more care in operation. A boat running with more of its hull on top of the water and with a shorter keel is going to have an increased risk of swapping ends or blowing out. Flatback V style boats have a very similar problem in waves. The degree of danger is certainly controversial though. Additionally, I do find the incidents in the article itself anecdotal even though I feel for the families involved.


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## Smackdaddy53

Cam said:


> This article does a deep dive on it:
> 
> http://www.houstonpress.com/news/as-regulation-lags-texas-flats-boat-casualties-mount-9022115
> 
> Boat hulls that have a tunnel keel require some degree more care in operation. A boat running with more of its hull on top of the water and with a shorter keel is going to have an increased risk of swapping ends or blowing out. Flatback V style boats have a very similar problem in waves. The degree of danger is certainly controversial though. Additionally, I do find the incidents in the article itself anecdotal even though I feel for the families involved.


Those boats are not even close to typical hull designs especially for poling skiffs. The bow is a super deep v that transition into a flat stern with a tunnel so when the motor gets jacked up too far they are more likely to swap ends. Those El Pescadors were built right here in the town I live in and if you drive down to Port O’Connor you will still see at least a half dozen or more of these boats at any given time at the gas station or boat ramp. My uncle had one and never had it swap ends. That is what happens when googans buy a boat that they don’t know how to operate and has nothing to do with any other flats boats or skiffs because the design is so extreme compared to other boats. Look at this photo.







Only a few hulls are even remotely similar to this and I can name 5 builders that produce one similar: El Pescador, Explorer, Majek, Maverick and Mowdy with El Pescador having the most extremely steep bow entry.
Adding a tunnel to a poling skiff won’t get you hurt but being ignorant about the boat you are behind the helm of will. What else do you have?


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## SomaliPirate

The only safety issue regarding a tunnel hull I've experienced, is that I nearly drown in female attention when I pull up to the ramp in my sweet 17T.


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## Cam

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Adding a tunnel to a poling skiff won’t get you hurt but being ignorant about the boat you are behind the helm of will. What else do you have?


Like I said earlier, tunnel hulls don't generally ride as well, typically lose a bit of draft off plane, have added technical issues and as noted earlier shortening the keel/riding more out of the water has some added risk. 

So what I got is several downsides for a single advantage that isn't really much of an advantage in Florida gulf waters based on my experience. I've said my opinion on the matter and I am sure most don't need to hear me repeat it for the umpteenth time. Feel free to google other opinions on this matter because mine is hardly a lone voice in the night.


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## devrep

sorry but there is virtually no downside to a tunnel like this.


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## Smackdaddy53

devrep said:


> sorry but there is virtually no downside to a tunnel like this.
> 
> View attachment 19327


That boat has to be so dangerous and the 1/16” loss of draft must kill you...how does your prop not blow out with that contraption?


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## LowHydrogen

Vertigo said:


> Being on plane with a tunnel in 8" of water is fine, so long as there are no rocks 6" below the surface. We're talking the Nature Coast and that means rocks. Tunnel hulls certainly have advantages in some applications, but maybe not so much around here. I say this as a guy who is currently running a tunnel hull Seaark.
> 
> Hit this at high tide.


If that's up behind Porpoise Pt. I may have left a prop there quite a few yrs back.....


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## jimsmicro

Here are a couple examples of creeks at Waccasassa. We run jets and tunnels in the big bend and nature coast for a reason. The higher you can get that skeg up the better and if you can eliminate it all the better. In the winter time the fish are holed up in places that are inaccessible to anyone in a glass boat unless it's an airboat. You won't miss that 1/16" of draft you lose with the tunnel on a Sea Ark or G3 I promise. There's plenty of water once you get into the creeks, it's the flats outside that are the gatekeepers to the good water. Since it sounds like you bought a jet to fish the rivers up there maybe it's worth bringing it down to explore this area on a low tide. Find rocks and deep holes and you'll find redfish and trout.


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## Smackdaddy53

jimsmicro said:


> Here are a couple examples of creeks at Waccasassa. We run jets and tunnels in the big bend and nature coast for a reason. The higher you can get that skeg up the better and if you can eliminate it all the better. In the winter time the fish are holed up in places that are inaccessible to anyone in a glass boat unless it's an airboat. You won't miss that 1/16" of draft you lose with the tunnel on a Sea Ark or G3 I promise. There's plenty of water once you get into the creeks, it's the flats outside that are the gatekeepers to the good water. Since it sounds like you bought a jet to fish the rivers up there maybe it's worth bringing it down to explore this area on a low tide. Find rocks and deep holes and you'll find redfish and trout.


That area looks treacherous! And guys will still argue that with their motor hanging down 6-8” below the hull they aren’t losing anything and our “dangerous” tunnels are just draft killers.


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## jimsmicro

Yeah their draft is going to be the last thing on their mind when they're trying to find the pieces of their lower unit in a rock pile. I always see all these guys with flats boat talking about drafts of 6 to 8 inches. They would find out real quick here that it's not the case. You might get away with dragging skeg across a sand bottom but you won't have that luxury here.


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## Smackdaddy53

jimsmicro said:


> Yeah their draft is going to be the last thing on their mind when they're trying to find the pieces of their lower unit in a rock pile. I always see all these guys with flats boat talking about drafts of 6 to 8 inches. They would find out real quick here that it's not the case. You might get away with dragging skeg across a sand bottom but you won't have that luxury here.


Is the water lacking salinity?


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## Vertigo

Bottom line: a tunnel hull will run a few inches shallower on plane. On the Nature Coast, unless you know exactly where you're going, best not to run on plane. If you know where you're going a tunnel hull won't give much of an advantage. If you're lost a tunnel hull will just cost you a new skeg just like a conventional hull.


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## devrep

so if your skeg is 8" higher than a non tunnel it's the same...

I agree that if you don't know the area you should be careful but yeah, not the same.


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## Smackdaddy53

devrep said:


> so if your skeg is 8" higher than a non tunnel it's the same...
> 
> I agree that if you don't know the area you should be careful but yeah, not the same.


It seems to defy the laws of physics and economics! I love tunnel vs non tunnel threads. A tunnel hull will cost you a skeg, a non-tunnel will cost you a lower unit.


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## Vertigo

Let's put it another way. On the Nature Coast, if you know the territory a tunnel isn't necessary. If you don't, a tunnel won't do you any good. 

In other areas and in other situations a tunnel can be a great advantage. Different horses for different courses.


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## SomaliPirate

I think what we can all take from this thread is that the fishing from Cedar Key to Homossassa is horrible and the area is dangerous. You should just think of your safety and stay away.


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## jimsmicro

Yep, there aren't any fish there anyway, and you don't need a tunnel hull boat unless you don't know what you're doing.


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## devrep

yep no sense fishing this area. We didn't get these Saturday and release a bunch more.


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## N9BOW

N9BOW said:


> Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.. this is most helpful! Just dropped the coin on the dedicated trout boat for Arkansas! Topwater 2160 with a 60/40 jet. I will definitely be using my Solo Skiff to get a feel for the area and once we settle on a house I will start to look seriously for a bigger boat with all the input so far!


Picked up the new tunnel trout rig TopWater 2160.. we boated 60 trout over two days on the White river. 
Im sure She'll work down in the Nature coast area as long as I stay out of the big water.. Wont be as quiet as a dedicated flats rig but it will do until I get down there and get settled.


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## No Bait / Lures Only

jimsmicro said:


> Here are a couple examples of creeks at Waccasassa. We run jets and tunnels in the big bend and nature coast for a reason. The higher you can get that skeg up the better and if you can eliminate it all the better. In the winter time the fish are holed up in places that are inaccessible to anyone in a glass boat unless it's an airboat. You won't miss that 1/16" of draft you lose with the tunnel on a Sea Ark or G3 I promise. There's plenty of water once you get into the creeks, it's the flats outside that are the gatekeepers to the good water. Since it sounds like you bought a jet to fish the rivers up there maybe it's worth bringing it down to explore this area on a low tide. Find rocks and deep holes and you'll find redfish and trout.


Wow....


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