# I am not just talking anymore!



## WhiteDog70810

Day 1:

I just got home from deployment a couple weeks ago and I am finally in a position where I can actually build my boat and not just talk about it.  I've linked my previous brainstorming for those interested.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236166089/15

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1249763672

I ran to Lowe's today to get the wood to build my strongback.  I'll place my plywood order soon.




























This is what a 16' ladder frame looks like in a 20' garage.  The frame clears the garage door by about 1/8".  This will be a cozy build.  Fortunately, a lot of the stuff in the way will be going to Goodwill very soon.

I was surprised how straight the 2x6's were at Lowe's.  I expected to have to make do with mildly warped wood, but these two 2x6's barely have a crown.  I used ratchet straps to get my diagonals even, but it didn't take much.  I might mount diagonal braces once I figure out where they won't be in the way.  I mounted the first four legs square and flush to the frame, shimmed it to level, then mounted the rest of the legs so they touched the floor, hence the discrepancies between the shims under the various legs.  It is now custom built to that 2x16' piece of my garage floor and I can't move it without altering the legs.  I am happy to observe that if my water heater ever leaks, the water will flow out of my garage.  

Tomorrow I think I'll cross brace those legs.  They are fairly solid now, but I bet sanding the hull will make the frame loosen up and start to wobble if I don't brace the legs a bit more.  I also hope to get the temp frames cut and mounted this weekend.  Then I'll wait for my plywood to show up.

Nate


----------



## copperhead

Definitely cross brace the legs


----------



## Brett

[smiley=watching-you.gif]

Build it, and I'll watch, quietly, most of the time...

;D


----------



## mark_gardner

the only problem i can see is that your garage is way to clean  but thats gonna change soon i'm sure


----------



## WhiteDog70810

"Clean" is a bit generous.  I just pushed the big chunks to the side and swept the floor. I have neglected to tell my wife exactly how much dust I will be distributing in the near future.

I had to knock out some chores today, so no progress to report. I think I have got the distractions out of the way so I can be productive tomorrow.

Nate


----------



## FSUfisher

Looks exciting. Welcome home! [smiley=1-beer-german.gif]


----------



## DuckNut

Welcome home.

THANK YOU!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Day 2 (Yesterday didn't count)

I braced up the construction base and shimmed it as level as I know how to get it.  I also got three temp frames made today.  They aren't mounted on the base yet, but I set them up to get an idea of how much space I'll have to work with.  Hopefully, I'll get the bow mold and final frame knocked out tomorrow and get them all mounted, level and square by next weekend.



















I'd better get the ply ordered so I have something to play with next weekend.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Day 3 & 4:

I just finished the frames and started to mount them on the base on day 3.  I didn't post pics because it kinda looked the same from a distance as it did the day before.  As of yesterday I finished the entire construction base/jig, so I can actually post pics that show some progress.  I am pretty happy with it.  It looks a lot bigger in person than it did on the computer.  




























I went to order my ply from Bateau, but I flinched at the shipping cost.  I am trying to find a retail source of marine ply in the Raleigh/Fayetteville/Charlotte, NC area.  If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.  I've called some local specialty lumber yards, but they don't seem to answer their phones or return messages.  I'll probably still end up ordering from Bateau, but I am going to shop around first.

Nate


----------



## Gramps

Progress is progress! I'm looking forward to another home brew build. Y'all have a lot more patience and dedication than I. ;D On the ply part, have you tried calling any local boat builders? There may be some specialty outlets that sell marine ply, foam and the like.


----------



## DuckNut

McEwan Lumber used to stock Okoume http://www.mcewenlumber.com and I know these guys www.dixieply.com can get what you want (they are wholesalers).  Call them and ask the questions you need answered.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Unfortunately, McEwan lumber didn't answer their phone either time that I called.  I can get 1088 Okoume locally at Anchor Hardwoods Inc in Wilmington, NC for just a bit more than it would cost me to get 1088 Meranti shipped to my house.  The light weight will be a nice upgrade for the difference.  The guy on the phone was very cool, so I think I'll just spend the extra money with him and consider it well spent.

Nate


----------



## Guest

What are you're specs for the skiff? If you are looking at building an FS18 skiff I would really re-think that. I have been on 4 different builds and was not very impressed with the boats. The sheer is too high, water line beam is to narrow and building a sole so that it is self bailing is a waste.

I'm going to build a skiff in the future which will have specs to Brett's "Grass Slipper".

17'6" - 18' Long
48"-52" Max Beam
42" bottom rear beam

1/2" for bottom, transom and part of the front
1/4" for decks and other things.

The info I have gathered from similar builds is that the builders say the boats are "over-built".

Look at The Slipper thread which my skiff will be based on. I have been on it and was very impressed. The things I would change would be 18' range, sheer cut down to 10" - 12" and a longer front deck.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

BrazilNut,

Never show interest in the endeavors of a fanatic.  They might respond.
[smiley=1-biggrin.gif]
I like the concept of the FS18, but I didn't want a vee and I didn't like the canoe-like look, so my design has more in common with the D15.  I wanted an outboard pirogue that could plane with a 10 hp motor.  My design is 16' long and 53ish" at the widest.  It is 15" deep with 6ish" of flare all the way around, so the bottom is 41ish" at the widest.  I think a 10-12" depth would be too shallow for my purposes.  I made the shear follow the curve of the bottom up front because I prefer that look to a flush shear.  I also figured I'd kick my drink into the water on a flush sheared boat.  The bottom curves up 2.5" from the middle forward.  That should keep the chines underwater and make it quieter.  I did not raise the sole because I didn't want to raise my center of gravity.

It should float shallow and pole easy, but I made some trade offs.  It will probably try to bow steer at slow speeds.  It will probably not be particularly stable.  I'll have to hide from any open water when the wind kicks up.  I can live with all that.

I have the plans to the D15. It calls for 1/4" sides, 1/2" bottom and transom (+ 1/2" clamping board) and 3/8" interior frames and decks. I wouldn't consider it overbuilt, so I am using the same materials and fiberglass specs. If I increased the length to 18', I'd increase the bottom width to an even 48" (total of 60" wide across the gunnels) and include stringers and cross bracing. A raised sole is really nice to cover up that sh-tuff, but it forces you to raise the side height unless you want to deal with a ridiculously shallow cockpit.

Nate


----------



## Guest

I thought you were going to build an FS18 for some reason.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I looked at it hard and probably talked about it from time to time. It was so close to what I want that I kept thinking it was silly to reinvent the wheel. In the end, I just didn't love the design. I have no real world experience with it, just a lack of a warm and fuzzy in my tummy.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I bought most of my ply today. I went with the okoume 1088. It is nice stuff (it better be!). The 6566 meranti looked good, but it was heavy and they only had 1 sheet of the 6 mm. As is, I only got the 6 mm and the 12 mm for the hull. I guess there is a gap in their supply chain of 1088 okoume 9 mm. That is actually good. I'll focus on the hull for now and worry about getting the 9 mm once I've flipped it and require the 9 mm for the bulkheads and stuff. Since I am not paying shipping, I can spread the plywood expense out over time and buy some fiberglass earlier than I originally planned. Tomorrow I'll work on templating the sides and bottom and then get them cut out.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

No new pics because I just have a stack of ply pieces in the garage.  They are not particularly photogenic.  I've got the pieces of the hull cut out.  Now I am waiting to get my FG supplies.  

For the record, I suck at cutting curves, but I am trying not to worry about the wavy edges.  The fillets or rub rail will cover them.  I did make several screw ups on the bottom.  After correcting the mistakes, the bottom ended up being 1/2-1" narrow in places.  I don't think it will be a huge problem, but I am pissed at myself.  I can do better work than that.

I made the mistakes because I made my jig as good as I could and assumed it was good enough to get the bottom dimensions from.  I just threw the ply on top and marked the points of the frames and used those points to define the curves.  The end result was not as square or straight as I expected, but I cut before I figured that out.  I should have laid out my curves based on my known dimensions.  I know better, but I thought the other way would be good enough.  Oh well, that is what I get for trying to cut corners.  I've made it square and straight now, but I lost some material in the process.  Now it has a bigger gap for the epoxy putty to fill.

On the other hand, I successfully pulled the dimensions of the sides off of my jig.  I am pretty happy with the result.  If you've read my old posts, I really wanted a program that would unfold my digital model and allow me to create a table of offsets.  Unfortunately, Google SketchUp doesn't do that and I couldn't figure out Delfship.  Instead, I wrapped a 17' long by 2' wide piece of masonite around the jig to find where the frames intersect with the sides.  I then used those points to define the curves and cut it out to create a template to trace the sides from.  Since I just made one template which I used to trace both sides, the slight variations of my jig from side to side will not have an effect. It worked pretty well.  I need to make a table of offsets in case I do this again in the future, but I really don't feel like it now that I have the sides cut.  

Nate


----------



## anytide

you'll get it right, after a while you wont bother with all that computer stuff. it helps sometimes but hands on expirience will put that away.. i'm sure your build will be awesome .. its gaining character and its own style as it comes together, some of the best results just happen as you go along.. i always made one side first then -used it as a template for the other... then best thing about building it is you never know what you;ll really get until its done , after i built a few of them all i used is a pencil, tape, string, staight edge, BEER, and a lot-o- imagination. ;D
it'll work out great for you -good luck, more picts. 
-anytide


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I hit a gap in the money supply and haven't made any progress in a bit. I just ordered my glass and it will be here by the 7th according to UPS. Until then, I'll square up my jig. I had some serious issues a while back and got rather disgusted with it. I finally got back on the horse today and got the back half of the jig "right". I'll get the front half good tomorrow and be ready to rock and roll on Thursday. 

I have heard this building method is forgiving from every single person who has ever built a boat in this manner. I will soon get to verify that myself. I am awful with a circular saw and all of my curves are very wavy. That doesn't bother me as much as the curves I blatantly cut wrong. Nothing makes your heart stop like discovering that your curve is 1" wrong after you've already measured it twice and cut it. I kinda fixed them and will make up the difference with epoxy. Once I threw the bottom back on to the square jig, it doesn't look too bad. 

Nate


----------



## Andrewp

Nate, just keep at it. The first pirouge I built was so crooked (at least to my eye), but almost everyone who saw it thought it was cool and beautiful, and never saw the crookedness. And it floated!!!!! That's what amazed me, it floated, it worked!!

Yours will too .... keep at it. Pullin' for ya, mate!!


----------



## firecat1981

Sounds like a bit of a head ache, Kinda why I didn't go with the strongback building method. If it gets to be too much gust build it on the floor.


----------



## Brett

I miss my old construction base,
but I hear it's in a much better place...










That fully leveled and solid surface was great. It really did make for easy construction,
and a way to double check every measurement for symmetry..

Build it when you can Nate, every hull build thread teaches me something new.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

*Jig Model 2.0*

Between one dumb monkey, a tape measure, a level, a square, a few ratchet straps and a sprinkling of self-depreciating profanity, the diagonals of my jig are now all even and the damn thing is still level.  I have measured everything I could possible measure between 3 and 20 times just to be sure.  I came real close to stitching it on the floor because I was pissed at myself for not making it right the first time.  After I walked away from it for a few weeks, I got my good juju back and did what I knew I had to do.  After seeing the gaps I have to fill, I am really glad I didn't burn the strongback.  There will be some serious engineering involved in tacking the hull together and I don't think I could do it on the floor.  I also built my fairing boards.  

I am waiting for the UPS truck like a puppy waiting for his boy to get home from school.  Tomorrow, my optimism will crushed with the knowledge that I have made some other costly, but currently unanticipated, blunder.  For now, I'll straighten up the garage and pretend I know what I am doing.  

I've been a bit weak in the photo documentation recently, so I put my side template on the jig along with my bottom panels to get an idea of what size this thing is gonna be.  It warms me to the cockles of my shriveled black heart to see a boat-like form emerge.



















I rotated that second photo in Photobucket when I resized it, but it wants to be sideways here. Just tilt your heads I guess.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

> There will be some serious engineering involved in tacking the hull together and I don't think I could do it on the floor.


It's really not hard at all, drill holes, insert zip ties, pull tight, done. you can do it anywhere as long as it's more or less flat. A platform, good garage floor, top of a semi truck... 

PS don't forget the dowel rod trick for stitching.


----------



## mark_gardner

she looking great man dont be too hard on yourself  keep the pics a coming


----------



## tom_in_orl

Nate, Great project. Thanks for sharing it here.



> PS don't forget the dowel rod trick for stitching.


I am not familiar with that. Can you explain please?


----------



## Gramps

Hey Nate there's nothing wrong with a few gaps! That's what epoxy, wood flour & fiberglass are for. It's looking good man, keep moving forward!


----------



## Brett

> PS don't forget the dowel rod trick for stitching.





> I am not familiar with that. Can you explain please?


Placing a section of dowel inside the panel joint
then wiring around it and through the panels
aligns the panels with a minimum of adjustment.


----------



## firecat1981

Brett beat me again, If you don't use the dowels (I used 1/2 inch dowels, cut to about 3/4 inches long or so) then you will need to constantly go back and readjust everything even while filleting. Also without them you will need to drill more holes and use more ties closer together to get things right. 

Like gramps said if you have a small gap here and there it's not a big deal, just try to keep them as small as possible.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

My FG supplies came in today.  It doesn't look like much considering it is over $380.  Oh well.  I got in to it this afternoon.  I had hoped to get my sides done, but it wasn't to be.  

I worked wet on wet to the best of my abilities and got the first layers of the transom glued together and spliced my bottom panels together.  I used a FG splice because I didn't want a big lump in the floor from a butt block.  I used three overlapping layers of 12 oz x 6" tape over the seam and got a splice that ended up being 8" wide.  I can put more on it if the splice needs to be wider, but I figured I still have another layer of 6 oz cloth coming in the future so I stopped.

Now I am just feeling the temp drop.  It was in the upper 70's today, but the night lows are in the mid 40's.  I got medium hardener for that reason, but I still won't be comfortable until I see hard epoxy tomorrow morning.  It is already kicking, but I am paranoid.  My bottom panels won't fit on the floor of the garage, so the epoxy will have to be one with nature.  I have tucked it in with a night light so I think I'll be okay.  I suspect it will blush.










The hitch and ramp are necessary to get the warp out of the pieces so that they'll glue together right. The ply was stored on edge prior to sale.

When working wet on wet, you are supposed to lay your next layer once the previous layer is tacky.  I applied my base layer of epoxy with a chip brush and there were a bunch of tiny bubbles on the surface.  If I had let the epoxy set hard, I would have wiped the surface with denatured alcohol and lightly sanded the surface to rough it up and open those bubbles.  Working wet on wet, I just kept going.  For future reference, is that the right way to proceed?

I don't think I have made any terribly expensive mistakes yet, but it I have a gooey mess of a FG splice in the morning, that could easily change.

I have day dreams of making this same hull out of cypress strips if this one turns out good.  However, I am glad I am going to paint this one.  I still wince every time I adjust it and it slides on the concrete or a temporary frame gouges it.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

> I used three overlapping layers of 12 oz x 6" tape over the seam and got a splice that ended up being 8" wide.


Man thats a whole lotta glass! for butt splices I used just one layer of 6oz cloth maybe 6 inches wide. I never had any issues because remember all you are doing it really holding it in place (holding very strongly ) until you glass over it. I did find that if I used too much glass it would effect the way the ply would bend so watch out for that.

Why do you think you will have blushing? you are using epoxy right? where did you order it? I wouldn't worry much about it, you will know if it blushes. 

Important thing to remember, prime your wood with resin and let it soak in for 20 minutes or more. If you don't then the wood will suck up alot of the resin and may starve the glass. Shoot me a messege if you need any info


----------



## WhiteDog70810

It cured! Logic told me I took enough precautions, but I was still nervous until I touched it this morning.

I used the three layers to get the width to 8". I was afraid it was overkill, but I was running out of daylight at the time and just followed my gut. That particular joint doesn't have to flex much, so this one won't hurt me until I have to fair it. I'll use less tape on the others.

I am using Marinepoxy from Bateau. It has been very easy to work with so far and I don't see/feel any blush this morning. I used West Systems epoxy with their slow hardener last time I glassed anything and it blushed like whoddatunkit. The Bateau site said that the medium and fast hardeners will sometimes blush, so I was looking for it. I'll wipe it down with denatured alcohol prior to sanding just to be safe.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

*Progress!*



















I now am the proud owner of some boatish looking pieces of ply.  My sides, transom and bottom are just about ready to stitch together after I clean up the joints a bit.  I have one little spot of tape to apply in the very tip of my bow.  Due to insisting on an exactly 16' hull, I had to scab a little pieces of ply on to the tip pf the bow to make my sides long enough.  I guess I can accept that as the price of vanity.  The little piece would have been bigger, but one of my pieces of 6 mm ply was made by Joubert and was 3" longer than a standard 8' sheet.  I don't know if this is standard for Joubert or just luck.  I'll dress it up tomorrow with various abrasive implements










I'll now discuss the specifics of the process.  First observation:  I need more cinder blocks, preferably the solid ones.  Get at least 3 cinder blocks for every splice you plan on laying up at any one time, but no fewer than 8.  I also need another 6 6" C-clamps.  This ply was a PITA to get to lay flat when I laid out the FG splices.  Considering the cost of the ply, I really wish the stuff had been stored flat, but I concede that floor space is always at a premium no matter where you are.  My PVC clamps worked for the transom when combined with a 12" paving stone and a gallon of resin.  The bottom panels did not lay flat at the splice when I laid out the joint despite a 160# goose neck plate. The fairing will be great fun.  I should have placed the plate directly on top of the splice, but I am new to this and was nervous about that approach. Notice how I had to rasp down the high edges of the seam a whole ply thickness in a couple of spots.










Next observation:  When working wet on wet, only put a prep coat of epoxy on the upside of whatever you are splicing.  I got enthusiastic the other day and prepped both sides.  When the epoxy was tacky, I laid my bottom panels onto the driveway on some Visqueen.  I applied some thickened epoxy to the edges and pushed the edges together.  The tacky prep coat on the bottom hug up on the plastic and pushed it into the joint.  I couldn't do anything about it at that time without risking my epoxy kicking off, so I just applied my FG splice on top of the joint and let it cure.  The next day I flipped it over and found the Visqueen was in the joint just as badly as I suspected the night before.  I pulled most of it free and used a Dremel with a bur bit to open up the crack (and removes any trapped plastic) all the way to the bottom all the way across the seam.  It was halfway through in most places.  I had to rasp the shoulders of the seam off so I had good exposure to the bottom.  The plastic probably ended up preventing half of the joint from bonding the first time, but the whole panel didn't flex at the joint when I moved it inside after "surgery" so there is plenty of strength even when it was jacked up.  I gave it another prep coat of epoxy today and then ran a bead of thickened epoxy down the seam and forced it in with a tongue depressor to get a good joint.  It will be solid now, but it was a learning experience.










Third observation: the Stanley Surform is my new favorite tool.  Nothing knocks down globs of hardened wood flour/epoxy quite the same.  Of course, I have given up all dreams of bright work.  I could try my side-grinder, but I haven't got that pissed yet.  Also note my newly finished transom.

Nate


----------



## Brett

Who would believe a bondo tool would work so well
on removing epoxy gobs without making a cloud of dust.
All those sharp edged perforations do a job on lumps and runs.


----------



## Andrewp

Sureforms are great for removing the edging on those fiberglass tape strips, for sure ...... 

Isn't epoxyfying wood so much fun?  Have you spread epoxy onto places it doesn't belong yet (fingers, clothes, parts of boat not meant to have epoxy just yet)?? 

You're making great progress, and I know you are thinking that you can't have brightwork, but plan for some -- you'll be surprised on how good everything looks.


----------



## FSUfisher

Good progress! I love that idea with the Sureform, but just wish I had heard of it weeks if not months ago. It would have saved me a lot of frustration and interesting moments with the angle grinder, including one this afternoon. ;D


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Epoxy on my forearms is becoming my fillet cure monitoring method of choice.  I have yet to find a use for the fiberglass splinters between my fingers. 

No post yesterday because it went kinda late.  I cleaned up all my joints from the day prior and my boatish looking pieces were stitched into a boatlike shape by about 1 am.  I warned my wife to tune out any ranting, cussing, slamming and throwing of stuff that might occur during the process.



















I was tired last night, so I put off cleaning up until this morning.  My garage was pretty sloppy.  While I know many guys function just fine in a dirty shop, if my workspace is a sty or unorganized, I become an airheaded ditz.  Consequently, I started a bit late.










The dumb monkey needs adult supervision when he plays with his chemistry set.










Here it is actually tacked.  My wife swears by kee-seal piping bags.  I guess the Wilton ones at Walmart blow out when the frosting is thick.  My wife is my in-house frosting Subject Matter Expert and  her opinion is gospel.  She has a stash kee-seals so I got to use the good stuff.  I mixed my epoxy fairly thick and had no blow outs.  You may have to find a cake specialty store to get them. After I applied it with the piping bag, I shaped the bead with a putty knife so I had good contact.  Some of my joints are flatter than I like, so I went back latter and built them up a bit. I'll probably have to add more before I can tape.





































I covered my frames and strongback with Visqueen to keep the mess from squirting through.  I also used longer pieces of pipe than most do behind the plastic to push the plastic to the joint and give the inner bead a radius.  It made the stitching harder, but it helped with the tacking.  I think cleaning up the inner  fillet will be easier this way.  When I looked from the bottom, it seemed to formed a decent inner fillet.  I took these measures because I had a couple of Grand Canyons to fill.

I hovered a bit 'til I could pull the zip ties.  I was in a hurry because I had a bunch of zip ties that would have became permanent parts of the boat if I had not pulled them while the epoxy was still just a little soft.

I got the gaps and stitch holes filled today also.  It is sloppy, but I can see the form now.  Tomorrow I will clean up the joints, round the chine for the tape and get the rub rail started.  I might even get it taped, but I am going to focus on the rail first to stiffen up the sides for fairing.  I am going to make a slotted outwale so I have a place to tie off bumpers or lash down stuff. It will be more involved than normal.










Post Epoxy Cookie










It is now a boat!  Prior to this it was pile of parts and I referred to it as such, but since it will keep water on the outside, I can call it a boat.  I checked my jig for accuracy redundantly and I checked the panels once they were on it before I tacked.  She is what she is now.  I am not going to check it for trueness anymore.  I might find bad news and couldn't fix it if I did.  She has a few curves that should be flat and a few flat spots that should have curves, but fairing will take care of most of them.  










Nate


----------



## Andrewp

I see four moaning chairs in the garage!! It won't be that bad, I promise!! 

It's looking good. Inwales are usually slotted so that water can more easily drained when turning the boat upside down, but there's no reason you can't have slotted outwales. It sure makes the boat look "salty" 

AP


----------



## Brett

Didn't feel like waiting or standing on my head to see her upright... 

Clean lines Nate... 



Ya' know...you could store her by hanging her from the ceiling. ;D


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Those chairs are waiting for a home but Craigslist isn't pulling its weight. My wife thinks the garage is a good place to put all the shtuff we need to get rid of. I disagree, but you can see where the chairs ended up. The boxes of seasonal decorations really annoy me and they will never leave (the attic is too hot).

I've seen both slotted inwales and outwales and thought about both. I don't want cleats/hardware anywhere on this boat, much less on the deck, but I need something to tie stuff to. I'd like to do slotted inwales, but I could never make it look right on this boat. However, I will need to run one strip on the inside. I am not sure how I can build around that and make it look good. I'll probably have to flex my deck. I've thought about that before, but more deep contemplation is required before a final decision is made.

Is 1/4" ply with a layer of 6 oz glass on both sides really lighter per square ft than 3/8" ply with one layer of 6 oz glass? Lets assume the guy laying up the FG does a good (not excellent) job and gets a reasonable epoxy/glass ratio. I think we assume that is the 1/4" option is lighter, but it doesn't make sense to me. It seems that the extra 1/8" of wood would weigh less than the extra layer of glass. Strength is not my concern because both options will more than adequate. Weight is my priority. 

Nate


----------



## Brett

Quickie estimation of plywood weight:

3 lbs per square foot per 1 inch of thickness

Fiberglass weight is measured in ounces per square yard
Resin needed is equal to the total weight of the fiberglass used.

lemme see here...

16 oz per lb... so 48 oz per sq ft per inch thick

1/4 inch would be 12 oz per sq ft

3/8 inch would be 18 oz per sq ft

using 6 oz glass is 6oz per sq yd

sq yd is 9 sq ft so 6/9 = 2/3 ounce per sq ft in fiberglass

so for 1 sq ft of deck

1/4 inch ply is 12 oz with 2/3 ounce glass over
and another 2/3 under plus matching resin adds 4/3 ounce
means a total of about 15 ounces weight per sq ft.

3/8 inch deck is 18 oz with 2/3 oz glass and another 2/3 resin
means a total of about 19 ounces weight per sq ft.

Looks like 1/4 inch with glass on both sides is better.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Wow.  You think I can get a 50% resin to glass ratio?  I am hoping for a low 60%. I guess I'll take the complements where I can get them, intentional or not.

I smoothed out the lumps today and rounded all the edges that will need tape.  Once I finished, I cut the strips I am going to use for my rub rail and started to dry fit it to the boat.  My PVC clamps won't hold ply to the curves I need to follow.  I am going to use the deck screw technique that Joel Shine used to put the rub rails on the low shear FS17.  

I've thought of hanging it from the ceiling until I get a trailer, but the garage door opener is in the way. 

Nate


----------



## Brett

> Wow. You think I can get a 50% resin to glass ratio? I am hoping for a low 60%.


like I said

1/4 inch ply with glass is about a total of about 15 ounces weight per sq ft.

3/8 inch ply with glass on one side is about 19 ounces weight per sq ft.

I already figured in the fudge factor... 

More pictures needed Nate, ASAP! ;D


----------



## mark_gardner

nice work nate [smiley=1-thumbsup2.gif] looks like you have a pretty cozy work area set up, keep up the great work


----------



## WhiteDog70810

My PR department went to bed before I had anything pic worthy accomplished.  We'll catch up today. My point and shoot POS bit the dust.  I have dedicated all of my few brain cells to this project and refuse to learn to use the good camera.  It is also better that I don't smear the good camera with resin and powder it with epoxy dust. 

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am going to talk as if I know what I am doing for the rest of this post.  In truth, this technique is fairly stupid proof and it made me look really good.

I finished dry fitting my first layer of rub rail this morning and got it epoxied this afternoon.  As I mentioned before, I used deck screws instead of clamps.  It worked really well.  I can't run a clamp one handed worth a dang, but I can run a screwdriver.  I predrilled with a bit about half the width on the screws to prevent splintering.  

The dry fit was very time consuming because this strip will be the guide for every following layer.  Basically, I use a framing square to keep the strip a constant distance (14 3/4") from the bottom of the boat.  My side panels are 16 1/4" wide and the depth of the boat should be 15" if the angle of the sides is right.  The strip is now much mo' betta than the shear line of the panel.  Due the 1/2" bottom panel, imperfect gluing and very imperfect cutting, I have some extra above the strip that will have to come off once I flip the hull.  That is no biggie.  The Surform can handle it.

Dry Fit:



















I had a nasty hook in the end of the right panel by the transom.  You can see it in the next pic by the second to last screw.  I don't care about hollow spots in the middle of the panel because I can fair them away.  However, this hook affected my rub rail, so if I didn't address it before I epoxied the rail down, it would be with me forever.  This is where boat building becomes an art, not a science.  I wedged some PVC struts between the strongback and the sheer to push out the hook.  I used the same technique to address some ugly flat spots around the hull.  I didn't have any problems with flat spots in the front half of the boat because it is curved much more.  The back half of the boat wanted to be pissy because it is flexed very little.  The 1/4" ply needs a pretty serious bend to get the flop out of it.

Hook Before (the pic doesn't do it justice):










The Fix:










Now My Rail is Fair:










Prep Coat (Keep the screws in position so they are ready to rock and roll)










Lay the Bead:










I put the screws in just far enough to hold the curve.  This isn't a job for a drill with a Phillips bit.  Use a screwdriver so you don't: 1.) drive the screw through the ply 2.) strip the holes 3.) make a new hole 4.) trash up your drill.  I wrapped my screwdriver with masking tape so the handle won't be forever lumpy.










Screw It Down:




























Clamp the Joints to Keep the Ends Flush (Put masking tape on the contact surface so the block doesn't stick):



















Clean It Up:










Recycle:










The actual gluing went very quickly.  I once again used the kee-seal piping bags.  I mixed this epoxy thick and didn't cut a huge opening and I still got the whole strip glued on using one bag (4 refills) with no bursting of the bag seams.

These are Great!  Find Them:



















I spend much more prepping than epoxying.  The more you think about it ahead of time, the faster you roll during the epoxying.  Now I just have to pull screws before the epoxy cures hard.  It isn't ready yet, so I had to write a pretty long post to burn the time.

Nate


----------



## Andrewp

So ....... you didn't scarf together a 16' length of wood to be the rubrail(s). You are doing them in sections.

I always wondered about that -- if it makes a difference (functionally) having a 1-piece rail, or simply gluing to the sides and butt-joining if you need another piece .... On my boat plans, I have a fairly straight run on the side about 6-8' from the back of the boat. I always thought I could get one piece of rubrail to do the bow curve area, but glue it to the side in the straight area, and finish the rubrail with a second piece simply butted up and glued to the first .....

So .... next, small blocks glued to first rail, then outer rubrail glued (screwed too?) to blocks to get that slotted look?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Those butt blocks are temporary. Scarfing is prettier, but not necessary. Those end to end joints are as stout as anything else. Scarfing ply for a rail when you are thinking of leaving the rail as bright work would overly encourage my OCD (I'd try to get every ply to line up). As is, the joints and filled screw holes will be part of the character. 

Solid wood 1/4" strips would be easier to work with than ply strips. They bend better. The 1/4" ply hates to bend across the strip. I am using the ply because I didn't feel like running out for more wood or bumming my neighbor's table saw to rip strips. Anyway, ply bright work on a fish ketchin'/duck slaying boat is kinda like wafer board walls at the bar by the boat ramp. It just seems right.

On a bad note, I pulled a jackass move yesterday. I am pretty sure I didn't add hardener to my second batch of thickened epoxy. The pressure got to me. The epoxy of that section of rail feels greasy and never set. I get to go out and fix that now. I figure I'll unscrew the strip, scrape out as much as possible, then use an acetone soaked rag in a dental floss fashion to really clean it up well and then get it stuck down right. At least it is someplace where it will be easier to fix. This is the cost of my hubris of yesterday.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

For the record, cleaning up unset resin sucks. Remember your hardener.

The rub rail was just hanging on by the surface tension of the epoxy underneath. It peeled off really easy. I scraped it really well and rasped off a few spots where the epoxy actually set up (recycled stuff from the previous run). This time I mixed my glue up very runny. It sucked to work with and made a hellacious mess, but I think I got better contact across the strip this way. The rail is rock solid this morning. I was worried that the soaked-in resin would cause problems with adhesion (I could only remove the resin on the surface), but apparently the hardener in the overlying epoxy osmosed (is this a word?) across and set it up.

I just need to repeat the process a few more times. I am having second thoughts regarding the slotted outwale. While practical, it will be 1 1/2" wide by the time I am done. I think that is too wide. Some mock-ups are in order before I make a final decision.

Nate


----------



## Brett

1/2 X 1 red oak slotted outwale would look mighty nice.
Tough, durable and would give you a bit of brightwork.
So much fun keeping track of the mix ratio's on epoxy.
That's why I used the marked disposa-cup method instead of the pumps.
Using a 2 to 1 mix ratio, I could fill the bottom to the 2 ounce line with epoxy
and if I got distracted, I could see that I hadn't added the 1 ounce of hardener.
Saved me from a bad mistake more than once.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I decided to go ahead with the slotted outwale. It is hard to brush in a boat when you have nothing to tie to. However, I am not making it as substantial as my original plan because my original plan looked like crap on the mock ups. I also think my original plan was grossly overbuilt. I may find this to be the wrong approach, but I can always add more layers as necessary. I am just making the rail out of marine ply like everything else. It will get dinged up, but I am okay with that. 

I am going bit slower for this part. I only have enough clamps to stick one side of spacers on at a time (screws didn't work for this step). I'd have all the spacers in place by now if I had more clamps. Unfortunately, I just spent $440 on more supplies yesterday and I need to work with what I have for awhile to avoid further encouraging my wife to shoot me.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Yesterday, I only got one half of the spacers installed for the rail.  I would have liked to have done more, but by the time the epoxy set, I had to go to a friend's house and be social.  I am having great fun trying to be a balanced individual right now.  When I am in the middle of something that I am really enthusiastic about, I neglect other areas like eating right, exercising, socializing, etc.  I am about to go back to work after two weeks of leave and I am sure that will throw a monkey wrench into my fun.  

This was by far the best vacation from work I've had since I've graduated from school.  There were some two week duck hunting trips when I was in college that still hold first place.

Hopefully, I'll get a good bit of work done today.  Here are some pics from yesterday.  I am using 1/2" spacers b/t 1/4" strips to make the rub rail.  Each spacer is 3" long and each gap is 3" long.  In the mock up, the unsupported 1/4" strip did not flex much at all and I expect it will be even stiffer once it is epoxied in place.  If this plan doesn't stiffen up the sides of the hull to my satisfaction, I'll add another strip on the inside.  If the outermost strip acts too weak, I'll add the extra strip there instead of the inside.




























I think someone is coming today for the table and chairs that are chewing up space in my work area right now. I'll have less crap in my way! It is important to celebrate the small milestones.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I finally finished the rubrail this weekend.  Work definitely has slowed my progress.  Additionally, my wife signed us up for a 5K on Saturday morning, so I had to get my cardio groove on in the morning, which delayed progress.  I knocked out my run in 21 minutes.  Not earth shattering, but pretty cool for me.  It got my good juju to the right level to finish the rail which had become tedious.  The slotted outwale was a bit of a PITA.  It will definitely be painted.










I have the stuff to glass the bottom and fair the outside of the hull, but after my marathon rail construction on Saturday, I just cleaned up stuff on Sunday.  After I got the garage nice and neat, I had to take the boat off of the strongback to remove the plastic.  While it was off the frame, we got some teaser pics.  I can straight arm squat the hull over my head once I find the COG, but I can't press it up if I let it rest on my shoulders first.  I think that means it is in the low hundreds right now.  I am happy with how it is looking.  I'll have to clean it up a lot and you will always be able to tell I made it myself, but it will be a clean home build.


















I swear I did better than this at the bow, but it looks rough right now.

I made a couple of less than perfect moves.  If I did it again, I would buy 1 x 1.5" soft wood strips (I'd use cypress) and scarf them together to make the rail solid from front to back so it would flex smoothly and follow the sheer.  I would then bum some band saw time and cut the slots from the inside of the rail.  The ply was hard to bend.  As a result, the joints look crummy and gave me an unfair sheer.  I will get it prettied up with a belt sander and some filler, but I could do better work.  There are also a few 1/8" gaps between the ply laminations that I couldn't see from the top.  They'll be easy to fill, but solid wood would have done a better job. 









This was the best perspective to assess the rail for fairness.

I will piddle with it this week and get the glass applied this weekend.  Maybe I'll get some fairing done.

Nate


----------



## iMacattack

looks tippy! [smiley=1-beer-german.gif]

Congrats!


----------



## Andrewp

"I am happy with how it is looking.  I'll have to clean it up a lot and you will always be able to tell I made it myself, but it will be a clean home build ..... swear I did better than this at the bow, but it looks rough right now ...."  Nate

I like home-made wooden boats for the exact reason that they are not perfect and that they are each unique to the builder's idea of what he wanted to do.  You will be shocked at how many people don't see all the "imperfections" that you do and will tell you what a great-looking boat.  

Have you been thinking about a color scheme yet?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I was going to camo it, but when I use it as a blind, it will be seriously brushed in. Between camo cloth and carefully selected local flora, a camo paint job is redundant. 

Pirogues are usually painted a dark moss green. I'll probably just stick to that for simplicity. The bottom will be graphite. The rails will probably be black. The interior will be some variant of tan with black (or dark green if I can find it) webbing.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I glassed the hull this weekend.  I finished my prep work by around 2PM and rolled the prep coat of epoxy for the tape at 3:30ish.  I finished the first coat of fairing compound at 11:45PM.  It went fairly smoothly, all told.  I did collect a lot of mosquitoes in the prep coat.  I have 2 halogens going once the sun goes down and the bugs come visit.  The lights also are my garage's main source of heat when I am done for the night.  My boat will have a good tan by the end of this.  

Working in cool weather with medium hardener allows for plenty of pot life.  I think I would have a lot more trouble doing this in the summer time because I would have not time to think through things.

My order of lamination was basically the same as Joel Shine's for the low sheer FS17.  I sanded all my seams in the morning.  Then I:
-pre-cut all my tape and cloth,
-wiped the sanded epoxy down with acetone,
-rolled on prep coat of epoxy along seams,
-burned some time filling screw holes with thickened epoxy,
-laid on the tape,
-wetted out tape,
-rolled on prep coat of epoxy for cloth,
-laid on the cloth and flattened the wrinkles,
-wetted out the cloth, 
-waited about an hour,
-applied microballoon/silica thickened epoxy (cake batter consistency) to fill weave.









Taped with prep coat









I cleaned up the tip and then I uglied it up again.









I taped off the rail to save myself some difficult sanding.  I'll still have to sand out the tape in a couple of places, but at least those areas will be away from the bead along the rail.









Glassed









First layer of fairing compound

I worked wet on wet, so I had no prep between layers.  The West System rollers work great except that they are 7" wide and I only have 8" roller frames.  The first two fell apart too quickly, but the last one lasted for the rest of the wetting out.  I needed bigger mixing containers for this part.  I've been using disposable Solo plastic bowls up to this point and they have been about right.  When you are wetting out epoxy or making fairing compound, you need to mix epoxy in batches that are 4 times bigger than what you mix when you are filling bags for fillets.  When the temp is in the 60's, you can easily get the entire batch spread thin before it kicks in the pot.  

I've got a big day of sanding ahead.  I am actually looking forward to this part because it will be my first chance to hide some blemishes that distract from her sultry physique.  When I can accept her as she is (lumpy where she should be flat and flat where she should have curves), I'll be done with fairing.  That may be one day or two weeks depending on whether my laziness or my OCD is the stronger influence.

Nate


----------



## joshuabward

LOOKING AWESOME, what kind of compound are you using for fairing?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am finding that she looks better when you take a few steps back. Perspective is everything. 

I am using the microballoon/silica blended filler sold by Bateau. It spreads smooth, but it isn't as easy to sand as I hoped. I might need to mix it thicker. It also is harder to mix into the epoxy than wood flour. I have a stash of QuickFair for the final coats, but I have to get the big holes filled with the cheaper stuff.

Nate


----------



## Brett

Fairing compound on a pirogue?
What would Boudreaux and Thibodeaux say to that?


I'd say your OCD is working overtime... 

Man, I don't want to be there for the first scratch,
especially after all the effort you're going through.

[smiley=smilie-taz.gif]


----------



## iFly

> I am finding that she looks better when you take a few steps back.  Perspective is everything.
> 
> *I am using the microballoon/silica blended filler sold by Bateau.*  It spreads smooth, but it isn't as easy to sand as I hoped.  I might need to mix it thicker.  It also is harder to mix into the epoxy than wood flour.  I have a stash of QuickFair for the final coats, but I have to get the big holes filled with the cheaper stuff.
> 
> Nate


I watch those guys building boats on that site all the time. I saw where the head technician guy over there says he uses: "4/1 micro balloons to silica, by weight is a good all around mix (for fairing)." But they always say that "if they have the money" they would always use Quickfair. Sanding is a universal leveling ground.  :-/

I own two production boats but, would love to build one. Guess I will just keep watching yours, for now. Great documentation.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

If this thing came out looking like Michelangelo carved it from marble, I'll still beat the heck out of it and not shed a tear.  Once it is too beat up, I know the designer and builder fairly well and they promised me they would fix it for the cost of materials.  They are both nuts, but they always come through in the end.

Nate


----------



## Swamp

> Once it is too beat up, I know the designer and builder fairly well and they promised me they would fix it for the cost of materials.  They are both nuts, but they always come through in the end.
> 
> Nate


Insist that they water test it for you before you take possession of the boat! ;D

Looking good!

Swamp


----------



## WhiteDog70810

*Dead in the Water*

Currently it is 44o F; the high is 51o F and the overnight low is 31o F.  My two little halogen lights can't compete with that.  I've got the first layer of fairing compound sanded, but I can't lay another layer until it warms a bit.  My wife has forbid me from buying a couple of space heaters for the garage until my next paycheck.  Fiscal responsibility sucks!

Nate


----------



## floridanative1028

If anything will cure OCD its building a boat (especially a wood one) so just keep the faith and learn to love your imperfections. I can look at my boat and show you every little thing that I see as an imperfection but when other people walk up to it they ask me where I bought it as if its off the showroom floor. I just tell them I got some at FGCI, some at US Composites, some at BOW, some at West Marine, some on Craigslist, and so on and so forth.


----------



## Swamp

*Re: Dead in the Water*



> My wife has forbid me from buying a couple of space heaters for the garage until my next paycheck.


Got a BBQ grill?  [smiley=evil.gif]  Just kidding, I'm sure you know not to run a BBQ in an enclosed area.  Ive got a catalytic propane heater (Mr. Heater brand) out in my studio, it just screws right onto the tank and works really well.  Come to think about it, I've heard that you can get some nasty epoxy blushing with fuel based heaters.  Maybe someone that knows for sure can pipe in.

Swamp


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I looked pitiful, got my wife to shift some funds around and got two cheap space heaters.  Unfortunately, I can't run both of them at the same time in my garage because they have to be plugged straight into the wall and both outlets are on the same breaker.  If both are turned on(even low), the breaker blows.  I can run one heater on low. I laid a thin layer of fairing compound.  It was hard this morning and I though I could sand it, but it gummed up my sandpaper.  Looks like I'll have to wait a bit longer.

Nate


----------



## Brett

Regarding fueled heaters...

http://www.wessex-resins.com/westsystem/problem-solver.html

I didn't know that...living in Florida I probably never would have.

From what I read the fuel fired heaters produce water vapor and carbon dioxide gas
both which hamper epoxy cure and can cause amine blush.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

A few hours of sunlight and the epoxy was sandable. This coat is going to take a bit more sanding than the last coat. My boat looks like it was dipped in chocolate. This coat really smoothed out the bottom. I've still got some more to go.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

...and the fairing continues.  Believe it or not, I actually like this part.  Every coat makes her purtier.  The waiting for the last coat of epoxy to set is the miserable part.  I started a four day weekend today (Government jobs have some perks) and I got the last coat sanded and an new coat applied.  I'd really like to have the outside faired by Monday, but I doubt that will happen.  My new coat has kicked, but it isn't sandable yet.  If it is still gummy tomorrow morning it will have to catch some rays.  If I can lay one coat a day, I might meet my Monday goal.  Unfortunately, every coat takes more sanding than the last.  We'll see what happens.  I keep reminding myself that I am not in a hurry.  

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Definitely get 60 grit sandpaper. The coarsest I could find on a 4.5" wide StickIt roll was 80 grit. It does okay, but coarser would be better. I've only seen 60 grit on the HookIt sheets. Maybe it can't be rolled without cracking the paper. I also should have paid for the 3M Longboards. My homemade ones are sufficing, but this job is slow enough that you should pay for good tools. Those pneumatic longboards would be the way to go if you are a habitual boat builder. For my purposes, the manual variant is fine. It gives us plenty of bonding time.

Sorry for the lack of pics. I am only fairing and close-up photos of low spots are just plain boring. Once I am done, I'll show an end product.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

This is too much effort for a glassed ply boat man, just get her close enough and hit it with a random orbit sander. Then abuse the heck out of it!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am moving on to QuickFair for the next layer.  There is no definite landmark other than I just used up the last of the microballoon/silica blend and the last of my leftover West Marine 410.  I think I've filled the big potholes. 

I never seemed to get the microballoon/silica blend to thicken the epoxy as much as it should have.  I know I could get it to a peanut butter consistency if I had an unlimited supply, but I was trying to stretch it.  It was never "easy" to sand.  The West Marine 410 Microlight is easier to sand, but it is a pain in the butt to mix.  It clumps very badly and you could get to the end of your pot life if you had to add enough and mix it until it was peanut butter consistency.  It also runs much worse.  For my last batch, I just threw everything I had left of both into the pot and stirred the heck out of it.  It seemed to work a bit better than using them separately.

Hopefully, the "good stuff" (QuickFair) will be everything it is supposed to be.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

sagging and the massive amount of filler needed is a downside sometimes when thickening resin. Get some cheap ol wood flour, use just a little in your mixes for fairing and they won't sag. For fillet material it works the best I think.


----------



## Andrewp

Someone said "fair and sand until you can't stand to fair and sand". 

I'm with FC on the effort thing -- working boat finish is the best I can hope for -- but to each their own. Part of the satisfaction is in the building, and if sanding is your thing ....... please come over to my house and help me sand mine!! 

AP


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I was not as productive this weekend as I had hoped. My bottom and sides were looking pretty darn good, but then an old screw up came to light. My sandpaper gummed up at the bow where I was sanding an old tape seam. I got a little aggressive with the sander and all the sudden I sanded through the the upper layer of fairing compound and cloth and found unset resin. I spent yesterday afternoon scraping the cloth that was saturated with bad resin up so I could lay a good mix down. I have got to the edges where the cloth is bonded to the wood underneath. It had to be a bad mix, but it seems to be setting up now that it is exposed. Anyway, it should be an easy fix. It just pisses me off.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I had a kick in the gut last weekend when I found that unset resin.  Fortunately it was just one batch.  I scraped until the fiberglass ripped off the uppermost layer of ply.  I probably had to use a bit over 3 square ft of cloth to replace the stuff I scraped off.  It wasn't a bad repair once I got around to it this weekend, but my self-loathing took a bit to get past.  Everything is solid again now.  I got it roughly fair with epoxy/wood flour since I am out of the cooler stuff.  It is ready for Quickfair now.



















I also formed my chine edge.  I used the technique that Shine used on one of his builds.  I can't remember whether it was the FS12 or FS18.  I cut some scrap masonite into strips and ran 2 strips of masking tape down the middle and then screwed them to the side of the boat so that they made a form to hold the epoxy fillet material in place.  



















It worked well, but I now have a very obvious view of the flat spots between frames on the sides. 










Unfortunately, I'd have to add up to 1/2" of fairing compound between frames to make that curve fair.  I can't add that much material without making the hull weigh a lot more, so it ain't gonna happen.  Retrospectively, I think I should have used an internal chine log to get a truer curve between frames.  It isn't a huge deal because you don't notice it unless you are looking for it.  

I had hoped to finish fairing and maybe start on the bottom runners.  It will have to wait a bit.  The next couple of weekends look like they will be busy.  

Nate


----------



## Brett

I think your problem with non-curing resin, may go back to 
the use of the manual measuring pumps. I just don't think they're
accurate enough to ensure proper mix ratios.
I read about that problem on a couple of other builds.
Which was why they recommended using measuring/mixing cups.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am not sure the pumps are to blame. My nano second attention span should accept most of it. I caught myself shorting myself a pump of hardener the other day. I am going to have to start weighing my batches to double check myself before I have to scrape nasty goo off my boat again.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

The holidays are great for quality time with the fam, but they played havoc on my boat building progress. I haven't got much accomplished since Thanksgiving. However, I am now back to work. Today, I finished sanding my chines and finally got to the QuickFair. It spread fairly easy and I will find out how it sands tomorrow. If the bottom is about right after sanding, I'll epoxy my runners down. Maybe I'll get the outside primed, the graphite on the bottom and the hull flipped before I have to go back to work. However, I am just as likely to be distracted by some shiny object and not get a damn thing done. Speaking of shiny objects (er, okay not so shiny), Santa hooked me up with a Lamson Konic 3.5 to match the 8 wt rod that I have gathering dust. Hopefully the anticipation of the use thereof will minimize my susceptibility to distraction.

Nate


----------



## Andrewp

It goes in bits and spurts -- I know, I too get distracted.  Right now I'm on a roll getting things done, but I bet I lose some steam when I start doing a lot of sanding ......

But hey, you will need to spend some quality time with the Konic -- or can you wait to use it only when you boat is done?  

Let me know how the Quickfair process works for you.  I'm debating on how much work I want to put into my boat -- I'm going for "ugly workboat finish" so anything that saves time and effort ........  

AP


----------



## WhiteDog70810

QuickFair is nice stuff. It sands well, but fairing is still a long process. Fortunately I am almost out of it, so this fairing crap will soon be declared "good `nuff" by yours truly. I am getting the bottom smooth. The high spots are making me work. The low spots are much better. 

Regarding the great "to fair or not to fair" debate, my two cents is that you should set out to do the best job you are capable of, to include fairing. Trust me, plenty of imperfections will occur no matter how hard you try to avoid it. If you needed a boat in a hurry, you would have just bought one. Like I said, just my two cents, so ignore as you feel appropriate.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I've reached a standstill regarding fairing because I am out of QuickFair.  I definitely must get more.  That stuff is a fix that I don't think I can give up.  After playing with the QuickFair, the microballoon/silica blend ain't gonna cut it.  I also have a time limit now.  I deploy at the end of the month and I will move to D.C. once I get home.  While I have no chance of finishing it prior to my annual migration in three weeks, I would like to get it primed, graphited, flipped and the two major bulkheads installed.

I spent yesterday handcrafting a skeg from a 1x2.  I definitely need a router, but me and a SureForm do pretty good work when time isn't of the essence.  Today I dry fit it to the hull using wood screws and epoxied it down.  I will fillet and tape it tomorrow.  The fairing will recommence thereafter.  




























The skeg acts as a longitudinal brace.  It will track straighter when I pole.  It won't slide as much in turns.  Why am I reciting known benefits of skegs to a bunch of guys who already know this stuff you may ask?  BECAUSE I PROBABLY JUST INCREASED MY DRAFT BY 50% AND I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!

On the up side, I think it makes my boat look faster.

Nate


----------



## Salty_South

Nice build so far! Draft isn't all its cracked up to be. I can only get so shallow before I hop out and chase tailers anyway.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Thanks for the compliment. Wading looks like it would be a blast, but I have never lived in a place where it was possible. Most of the time, the skeg won't hurt me because I usually fish in areas that have crotch deep gumbo bottoms. However, every time that skeg grinds on an oyster bar that I would otherwise float over, I will mumble some obscenities. Life is about compromise, so a little cussing is acceptable.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

Cut the skeg down and use 2 of them, less draft and you can spread out the support it gives better.

Also do you have a link to where they squared off the chines, I've seen guys like shine do it on the rear of the transom for efficiency, but never seen them do it on the sides. Seems like it would make it very likely to chip if impacted as compaired to a slightly rounded chine.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

It probably will make the chine more susceptible to chipping, but on Bateau (Builder Forums, Builders Power Boats, FS17 low shear, page 8), Shine says to square the chine to create sharp transition to allow the water to move away from the hull when on plane (less suction?).  He goes into it in more depth somewhere else, but I can't remember where.  The example I think of is a water pitcher with a spout that has a slight radius to edge of the lip.  Water will run down the front of the pitcher very easily because the radius of the lip allows the surface tension of the water to "pull" the water around the edge.  If the lip has a sharp edge you can pour very slowly and no water will run down the front of the pitcher.  I doubt it will make a huge difference on a little boat that isn't designed to be a speed demon, but I tried it.  I squared the chines up to the middle frame.  The bow has a 1" radius on all edges.

I also was thinking of going with multiple 1" runners, but I really like having the 2" central skeg because it will be much stiffer and will act like a stringer under the cockpit floor.  The resultant "increased draft" bothers me much more in the theoretical world than the result ever will in real life.  I am not happy unless I have something to grumble about anyway.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

I understand the theory behind it, not really sure it's worth it being the major pressure is running towards the rear on a flat bottom, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt. I've seen race boats with the transom sharpened, but the chines were still slightly radiused, or reverse chined with a radius.
I'm planning on making 2 very shallow and wide, 1/4-3/8" by maybe 2-3 inches wide, runners from about mid point to the rear of my skiff, but I'll have stringers on the inside and won't need them for support, just for tracking when poling.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I laminated the skeg today.  I had to get creative to get the 12 oz cloth to wrap around the skeg without air pockets.  When they say that 12 oz will follow a 1" curve, they aren't lying, but they don't mention the amount of coercion that is necessary to make it play nice.  I doubt I achieved a 50:50 epoxy/glass ratio, but I did as well as possible.  I laid a strip of tape on either side of the skeg and one over the top.  It was impossible to get it to stay stuck down.  I finally laid a layer of Seran wrap over the top of the skeg.  That helped me get most of the tape to form to the skeg, but I couldn't get all the air bubbles out.  My stroke of genius was using 1" PVC to force the Seran wrap in to the radius of the fillet and maintain even tension over the curve of the skeg.  Once I did that, I could just poke tiny holes over the air pockets to release the air and get a tight lamination.  The skeg will be good, but I suspect I'll have some lumps and bumps to sand out where the tape lays over the bottom.  Getting this smoothed out and blended into the bottom is gonna be fun.




























Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

dang pesky skegs. Here is what I was considering.

stretch a .25" fiberglass sleeve over the skeg and dry fit it to the hull. Then, after the sleeve and skeg have cured, perminately attach it.

Another option; since you added the skeg AFTER the hull was glassed and faired....why glass the skeg at all. Epoxy seal the skeg and glue it on. When it's torn up and you need to replace it....it will be easier to replace... Just a thought.


----------



## Brett

Excellent use of an object in a manner for which it was not specifically designed.

I'll remember that bit of ******* tech...


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I pulled my PVC molds and Seran wrap this morning.  Everything looks reasonably smooth and tight.  As suspected, the tape over the hull is not as smooth as the tape over the skeg and will be fun to fair.  I won't get to touch it until this weekend because of a hellacious work schedule this week. The skeg seems to be rock solid, but I won't really know that until I hit some stuff with it.  I was previously thinking of putting two layers of tape over the bottom of the skeg, but I think one will be sufficient now. 



















Nate


----------



## floridanative1028

I've never seen anybody use seran wrap before but a few months back I was laying filler on a vertical surface and as a last ditch effort to keep it from sagging I layed seran wrap over it and it worked awesome. When I peeled it of it looked like the filler came out of a mold it was so smooth. I've since used parchment paper with the same outcome but just a lot easier to make a perfectly flat surface.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I can't remember where I saw it used first. I think it was suggested as a low budget peel ply alternate somewhere on Bateau. The wrinkles that result from Seran wrap are a pain. Parchment paper is easier to work with and you get a flatter product. However it leaves a waxy residue that can jack up future laminations. Acetone might be able to get the wax off. Visqueen is another peel ply substitute.

Nate


----------



## levip

i like tin foil for my peal ply stuff it holds the shape you put it into for the most part and works great around outside corners where the glas tend not to want to stay wrapped


----------



## Brett

The heavier the fiberglass, the more difficult it is to work with,
when bending in a tight corner or compound curve.
The thickness of the fabric will fight your attempts to work air bubbles out.
That is the reason why 5.6 ounce fiberglass fabric is called tooling cloth.
It's about the heaviest weave of fabric that will follow a tight curve
without needing mechanical assistance to stay in place.
Very convenient in making small, intricate molds.
The problem with using the lighter weave is you need more layers
in order to obtain the strength needed in large projects.
That takes more time than a single layer of a heavier fabric.
Here's an example of a compound curve with tooling cloth overlay.
1x2 underdeck reinforcement, filleted and glassed in place.
No peel-ply needed, just multiple layers of 5.6 oz fiberglass ...


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Lighter cloth would make sense, but I ordered an extra 50 yards of 12 oz tape by mistake and I am finding uses for it.  Some creativity is required at times.  The skeg should be fairly armored with one layer of 12 oz on the bottom.  I wanted to overlap the layers so I had 3 layers of glass on the bottom of the skeg, but I would have needed to perform 3 separate laminations to get decent results.  This way, I only needed one lamination to handle it. 

Today is a snow day, so I thought I could get some work done.  However, snow is a result of it being friggin' cold!  My last layer of epoxy hasn't set hard enough to sand despite the heaters in the garage.  Now I get to wait for the heaters to catch up.  Maybe I can get it faired tonight.  On a positive note, I finally got my low corner filled up.  One last layer of fairing compound should make everything good on the bottom.  The "flat" part of the bottom was the hardest area to get fair.  The sides curve from bow to transom and were reasonably fair from the start. They are a bit flat between frames, but I can't fix that without adding 40 lbs of epoxy to the hull.  I am looking forward to the high build primer.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I had a second snow day today. All the lead footed, power braking idiots continue to drive like lead footed, power braking idiots whether there is ice on the roads or not. We don't have enough ice in North Carolina for Darwinism to thin the population annually. It is better for the Army to shut down post rather than make us risk driving. 

Since I am out of fairing compound and it really isn't the best weather to lay epoxy down anyway, I changed my plan. My boat spent the afternoon on the ice of my front yard (had I mentioned it is cold?) as I reconfigured the base to support it upright. I also releveled the base because the dang thing likes to walk off the shims when I sand. I despise leveling anything with more than 3 legs. My base has 10, so I drug my feet before I got to the job. I should have installed an adjustable foot on each leg, but it is a few days until pay day and I am grounded `til then. I used shims of masonite and cardboard to get it level instead.

The bottom is much prettier than the inside. I've got got some work ahead of me in order to get the ugly knocked off. The globs of epoxy that came through when I filled screw holes eat sander belts alive and they actually give the Sureform a run for its money. About 1/2" of ply and a MST (metric shit ton) of excess epoxy extend above the outwale for most of the length. The belt sander can't handle the grunt work and the Sureform is too slow. I may have to pull some Sawzall magic before I can pull the belt sander off the bench. Negatives aside, I am very happy with how stiff the hull has become.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I was dreading cleaning the shear up, but I made a new discovery (for me) that made it easy.  For those rare occasions when your Sureform just ain't tough enough, a 36 grit sanding disk on a sidegrinder can really kick the snot out of epoxy.  Others have used their grinders to shape their chines, but I haven't used it up to this point because it was too hard to control.  Now that I am on the inside and minimal fairing will forthcoming, I can bring out the big guns.  A bit of a surgeon's touch is required to avoid grinding through the bottom of the boat, but the job ended up being pretty easy and I didn't chew up my rubrail like I would have if I had used the Sawzall.  I still ate up a couple of 40 grit belts cleaning up after the grinder.  For the record, the blue belts last a lot longer than the red belts.

I filleted and taped my interior seams today.  I usually lay .5" radius fillets, but I had to lay 1.5" radius fillets to cover some wide seams.  I used the cut out top of a green chili can to make the fillet.  It worked pretty well.  If you have the fancy can opener that takes the top off the can without cutting it, it would be even better.  The wider fillets drag more than .5" fillets.  I taped over the fillet wet on wet so that it would hold the tape in place while I saturated it.  I probably should have laid the floor glass tonight, but it was getting late and I stopped.



















The tape is saturated.  It just reflects white in the flash.

I am trying to get to a good stopping point.  I migrate to Afghanistan next week sometime, so the boat will take up space in the garage until I get home.  Glassing my floor will be my last big accomplishment before I leave.  I have to move all my scrap lumber and my motorcycle back into the garage so my wife doesn't get nasty grams from the HOA while I am gone.  I am amazed they haven't nagged us yet.  

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

It will still be a while before I can get back to work on the boat, but I have had plenty of time to think/dream/scheme. 

I really want to use 1/4" ply for my decks and flex them, but I was having difficulty implementing it into my build because I don't have a straight run aft of the widest point at the middleframe. With the way I have made the sheer so far, water would collect along the rails at the widest point if I flexed the deck. I like the shear like it is, but after thinking about it a bit, I am realizing that a high bow has no purpose in a backwater boat. It will just act like a kite and gain me nothing beyond aesthetic appeal. So, I have decided to flex the deck and cut down the sheer so it is flush with the deck. It will end up looking much like a a Bateau.com Honker or Barnegat Bay Sneakbox above the water line. Since this is both for fishing and hunting, that does't bother me. With a combing around the cockpit that is 16" above the bottom of the boat and with the decks draining water out of the boat, it will have much less windage yet sacrifice none of the little bit of seaworthiness inherent to the design.

My question is how much to flex it? A more convex deck (to a degree) will help camoflage the hull, but I can't flex it too much or it won't be very comfortable to stand on when I am fishing. The crown of the deck will be 15" above the bottom of the hull to allow enough space to fit the gas tanks under the front deck. I was think of making the deck 4" lower a the widest point of the middle station (~48" I suspect) and keeping that curve constant on the tops of all other frames. Could I flex it more and still stand on it comfortably? I'll have grass rails to keep me from kicking things overboard.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I got back home on May 6 and got back at boat building. I have to move to DC in a few weeks, but until then I am going to get some bulkheads in this thing to stiffen it up prior to moving. The boat looks pretty much the same. I've finally glassed the inside and sanded it up a bit, but you really can't appreciate the difference in a picture. 

I mentioned chopping the sheer on my last email, but when I got home I decided that would be a great idea for the next boat, but it would put this boat waaaaaay behind schedule and wouldn't have the profound impact on windage I'd hoped. I am still going to flex the deck, but only about 1.5" over 48".

Right now I am building bulkheads. My ply supplier can't get 9 mm okoume right now and I can't justify the shipping cost of ordering it from Bateau, so I am making my bulkheads out of 6 mm okoume and adding extra strips of 6 mm okoume across the top and vertically to beef it up. I'll post pics of my creation soon. I hope I've saved weight vs using 9 mm meranti or 12 mm okoume, but probably not. 

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Time for a few pics.

Here is my rear bulkhead.










This angle shows the 2 additional layers of 6 mm ply across the top that I used to strengthen the bulkhead.  Most plans require that you add 1/2" ply cleats to the back of the 3/8" bulkheads to increase the surface area for the epoxy to bond to.  This shouldn't add much more weight than that I hope.










This angle shows the additional vertical layer I added to keep the bulkhead vertically stiff.  I am not sure it is necessary because another piece of ply will connect the transom and the bulkhead, but I didn't want to risk it.










This is the bulkhead dry fitted in place.  I've epoxied and taped it into place since then, but it pretty much looks the same.  I had to put the ratchet strap around her to get the flare right.  It was only 1/4" too far out on the right side of the photo and it took very little tension to get it to behave.










I'm going to repeat this with the front bulkhead, but I have to laminate the pieces together first.  I think I can get all of the main bulkheads and deck supports in place prior to moving it.  I will wait to craft the side frames/rod holders and drill the holes for the rod tubes and conduit until later.  I wanted to drill the holes before I epoxied the bulkheads in, but I didn't feel like thinking that hard right now.  Once the bulkheads are in place, it will  be easy to drill the rod tube holes based on the frames/rod holders I make.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I spent this afternoon laminating my front bulkhead together. I find myself finding other things to do rather than stand in the sun epoxying ply together, so my progress is rather glacial. I also drew out and cut the ply that will run from the transom to the rear bulkhead. I am currently massaging them to fit, which is more tedious than I'd like, but at least I can do that in the shade.

Nate


----------



## Andrewp

Glad to see you are back at it!!

Totally agree about working in the heat. Remember back when we complained about expoxy not going off because it was too cold? Now it goes off sixty seconds after you have completed mixing it!! 

Can't remember; are you putting a motor on this; if so, what is planned? .....


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I had slow hardened epoxy that had a working life of 10 minutes yesterday! Talk about lighting a fire under your butt when you are doing laminations! This was while mixing it in small batches and stirring as I went along. I should buy a canopy to put in front of my garage for shade while I work, but the HOA would have kittens. I am moving anyway, so there is no sense thinking about it now.

I am planning on a 4-stroke 9.8 HP Tohatsu. I might pay for the Merc and the tiller shifter if I am in high cotton by the time of purchase, but I doubt it will work out that way. I have never been in a situation where I had an excess of money before now and I doubt it will happen conveniently at the end of this build. Maybe a good used MercHatSan will pop up. 

Until I can buy a trailer and motor, I am eyeballing some spots on the map of the eastern shore of Maryland where it looks like I could launch off the side of the road and pole around fishing back in the marsh. Poking around the backwaters under the guise of fishing is a lot of fun t me. Unfortunately, the good duck hunting is almost never within a reasonable pole of a road through public land. I still hope to get out this fall, even if I just go through the motions. My lab is old enough that the thrill of hunting will wear her out without a single retrieve. 

Good job on your build. You knocked that puppy out pretty fast. Have you fished it yet? 

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

This afternoon started out with me fitting two pieces of ply to their places between the transom and the rear bulkhead.  What is the correct terminology?  "The pieces of ply that run between the transom and bulkhead" is getting too long to type out.  Anyway, I had to take a slight bow out of the bulkhead to get the correct measurements.  A little massaging was required.










I then laminated strips to the top to brace them up.  I am glad epoxy can cover up big gaps.  I made one measurement based on the wrong edge the transom and I have a big `un to fill up.










I also filleted in the front bulkhead.  I didn't know that getting the the main bulkheads in was a milestone, but it feels like a real boat now.  I got a laminating roller in my last order of supplies.  It rocks!  It is much better than a paint roller for getting a tight lamination and it really gets the fabric down into the radius of the fillet.



















Now I just have to leave it alone and stop fiddling with it.  I keep touching it to confirm that the epoxy is setting up like it is supposed to.

Nate


----------



## Brett

> The pieces of ply that run between the transom and bulkhead



If it's a vertical brace that ties the transom to the hull then it's called a "knee".

or

Any vertical panel in a hull is called a "head".
A vertical panel that runs from port to starboard, across a hull, is a bulkhead.
A vertical panel that runs fore to aft, is a longitudinal bulkhead.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I started epoxying the knees (thanks Brett) in tonight.  I had to tab the top corners and the front edges in so that I can straighten the warp out of the panel tomorrow after the tabs set.  In the mean time, I get to watch epoxy kick, which is stickier than watching paint dry. It annoys me because I can't work wet on wet, but it is better than slapping it in warped or constructing some elaborate brace system that I can't work around.










I initially made my transom flat across the top.  Now that I am cambering the deck, I have to compensate for my previous plan.  I extended the knees over the transom to support the deck to the back edge of the transom.   Another brace will run down the center.  Once I install the deck, I will cut it flush with the transom and fill the gap with thickened epoxy. 










I got the crash bulkhead put together also.  I should be able to get it in tomorrow, but it is boring, so I've no pics.

It keeps looking more boat-like.  I can see the way the deck will blend with the hull and I like it.  Since I am kinda working off the cuff now, it is good that I like the direction things are heading.










Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I finished filleting and taping in my knees yesterday.  I also filleted and taped the crash bulkhead and the rear deck support.  I didn't do the cleanest job because my piping bag blew out and I had to keep going because the stuff was cooking off.  I should have started over with a new batch because the first half of my fillets came out ugly.  Also due to having to wait so long to remove braces to straighten the ply, my fillets were much harder and I didn't get as nice of a tape job as I like.  However, it is done and none of the air bubbles hurt me structurally.

Today I got to clean it up.  After the palm sander, I used my Dremel to open up the air bubbles.  I hate sanding/grinding in corners!  Once I got that cleaned up, I filleted and taped in my front deck support.  I have made a lot of progress this week.  I'd like to add some stiffeners across the bottom before I consider it ready to move, but honestly, it is stiff enough to ship right now.

This is the first time I've cleaned all the tools and scraps out of it in a while.  It makes it more photogenic. 



















The C-clamps are actually doing something.  The black clamps on the bow are just there to be out of the way and I forgot to take them down before pictures were taken.




























I am laughing at myself right now.  Everyone else admitted up front that they were just going for a work boat finish.  From the beginning, I have said that I am just going to do as good of a job as I am capable of and accept what I get.  Secretly, I hoped it would look like a good cabinet maker had cut and assembled the pieces.  Reality is a nasty wench.  I am finding that I am only capable of a work boat finish.  Oh well.  I am still very happy with how it is turning out. 

Nate


----------



## tguasjr

Don't knock yourself, it's awesome! Remember to put a wire chase before you put that front deck on. After studying your pics, I would Ron a thin PVC tube along the bottom of the gunwales from front to back to make it easy to run wires. Just my.02$. It looks great!


----------



## oysterbreath

> I am finding that I am only capable of a work boat finish.


One man's workboat is another man's yacht!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

There won't be a trolling motor or much else that needs electricity other than the nav lights, but just in case I will definitely run the chases before I deck it out. I am planning on running tubes up both sides that are big enough to pull a gas line terminal end through. 

Nate


----------



## deerfly

pretty darn cool, I'm diggin' it.  

getting a nice finish isn't difficult, it just takes time and the right tools, which are mostly long sanding blocks. Then it's just fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, prime, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, prime, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, prime, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair...


----------



## WhiteDog70810

*I am most definitely not just talking anymore!*

So my house is in boxes and the movers are coming tomorrow.  I can't get anything done on the boat.  I have nothing productive to do.  What does any ambitious boat builder do with a partially constructed boat?  Wet test it of course!

The "tow" rig.  I definitely had to watch the bow of the boat to avoid hitting my mailbox when pulling out of me driveway and turning left.










Right after I launched it.  It drew about 1" at the transom empty.  This means it isn't a barge, but nothing more.










Me taking off.










The bow didn't go under.










Why am I carrying a big cooler?  To stand on for a stability test.  I was a ways away from my camerawife, but if you look closely, that is me on the cooler.  It wasn't bad at all, but the white Igloo marine coolers are not meant to stand on.  I heard the foam in the lid crunch one time, so I stopped that nonsense.










My wife brought the anxious dog, so I decided to take her out to see if her pacing the boat would be terribly uncomfortable.  It wasn't.  Stepping up on the frames was uncomfortable and the floor is pretty slick when it gets wet.  This is a video.



I worked on my J-stroke a little bit.  I suck, but I did a little better when I knelt.  It paddles well and I have no reason to think it won't push pole well.










I would have sunk it to see exactly what it took, but I haven't got a drain in it yet, so it would have been a pain to empty.

Nate


----------



## anytide

excellent work , cant wait to see it finished.
very exciting to watch the build..
--anytide


----------



## WhiteDog70810

How well does epoxy stick to PVC? I am thinking of installing a permanent anchor pin stake out hole a few inches back from the tip of the bow, but I need to figure out how to make it. I thought epoxy stuck to PVC pretty well, but I seem to be able to chip it off my PVC clamps very easily. Epoxying in a 6" chuck of PVC in vertically through the bow would be the easiest plan, but only if it stays there.

Nate


----------



## Brett

I managed to get epoxy to adhere to pvc. Used the mechanical grip of epoxy.
Had to sand the surface of the pvc to remove the finish.
By creating deep scratches in the pvc, the epoxy/fiberglass wrap
stayed in place after curing. Then I glassed the pvc tube in place in the hull
with the exterior cladding of epoxy/glass providing the needed bonding surface.

I prefer a leashed anchor pin, as hulls move/rotate/rock in three dimensions.
I'm not much for a vertical restraint that prevents that 3D motion.
Also, some conditions require a bow pin, others a stern pin, sometimes both.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

A leashed anchor pin would be simpler and quieter. I was worried that it wouldn't hold well in soft bottoms. I honestly don't want to drill a hole in my boat, but it would be so much cleaner than a bracket. I don't want anything cluttering up my deck. 

Maybe where I will fish won't have a soft bottom. I keep making this thing as if it will be used in Louisiana and I don't even live there anymore.



Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am neck deep in my move right now.  I hauled the boat, the construction frame and my lumber and supplies up to MD last night and put all of it into a storage unit this morning.  Hauling a load that is 10' longer than your truck bed is nerve wracking in DC traffic, but I got it done without a wreck or a ticket.

I didn't have any help to unload it so I coughed up the money for two furniture dollies.  It was the best money I've spent in a while, even at U Haul prices.  I previously took the legs off the construction frame for ease of transport.  The furniture dollies fit perfectly underneath.










Here it is all tucked in.  I hope to be back in business in late July.










Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Back in business by late July? That was wishful thinking. I am only now getting situated so I can play in the garage without feeling like a slacker POS. Of course it is cooler and I have to wait for the AM temp to get above 64 degrees before I lay epoxy. No pics tonight, but I'll get something up tomorrow. 

I epoxied some ribs made from 1.5 x .5" poplar (basswood) flat (i.e. not on edge) across the floor to stiffen it up. I'll tape them in tomorrow. 3/8" Ply on edge would have been stiffer, but I didn't want to the ribs to be as tall as ply would require to be structurally sound. I've started measuring for my rod holders which will tie into the ribs and stiffen the sides. Because I have to drill holes for the conduits and cut the rod holders so they line up and still end up with something structurally sound, there was some serious pondering involved before I drilled the first hole in a bulkhead. For something that is supposed to be water tight, I sure drill a lot of holes in it.

I pretty much insisted on getting a home with a two car garage. Did you all know that those are hard to come by up in Maryland? I did not expect that. We settled on a townhouse with a tandem garage. I didn't know such a thing existed. It is half as wide and twice as long as a normal two car garage. I enjoy the Bat Cave vibe. 

Unfortunately, my HOA has a "no open bed truck policy". That is pure un-American, snobbish, elitist, everything-that-is-wrong-with-this-country BS. I read it in the HOA disclosure, but this was the only place I could afford that had what I needed. I hoped they didn't enforce it. They do and I got a warning on each of my vehicles. I have two trucks, neither of which has a bed cover or cap. Now my little beater is parked on the county road so the HOA can't tow it and my big truck is packed inside the garage so I don't get fined for parking it in my driveway. To get any work done, I have to unpack the garage to get to my boat and workbench. When I am done, I have to reverse the process. It is tight in there with the boat, my workbench, my motorcycle, my shelves and a full-size truck. I wanted to get a bed cap for my truck before, but now I am pissed. I'll still do it, but I'll grumble more. I just want to tell the HOA that their "no truck" policy has failed to keep property values high AS EVIDENCED BY THE FACT THAT I CAN AFFORD TO LIVE HERE!

...other than that, life is good.

Nate

P.S. There is also a clause that prohibits extensive work on vehicles, to include boats. That is why I am now making a boat-themed planter if anyone asks. There are even some little holes to let the water out.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I took a few pics today to show my progress or lack there of.  The first is my garage sans truck.  It is actually a great layout once I get the truck and the motorcycle out of the way.










Here is the boat... and my finger.  I drilled the rear bulkhead for the rod tubes and the chase tube.  I have the chase tubes dry fit in place for the photo op, but I am not ready to epoxy them in yet.  I used 1 1/4" grey PVC.  I don't plan on running anything but a gas line through it at this point.  However, I have never cussed a builder because they put too big of conduit in place and I don't know how I might change things in the future, so I went big on both sides.  I was going to cut the chase tubes off at the front bulkhead, but I like that they come so far forward.  I'll have less gas line to get tangled up in things.  I'll have to create a couple of hangers under that front crossmember to keep the conduit from vibrating against the hull when I am running.










I also like the gentle curves of the grey PVC elbows.  It will be easy to snake stuff through those.










My floor stiffeners are in.  There are no close-up pics because the epoxy work is a little ugly, but they seem to be solid.  I used 12 oz biax x 6" tape because I have a bunch left and I want these things stout.  12 oz really resents following little contours.  I got it, but it was a pain.  If floor still oil cans under power, so be it, but I tried.  I don't think I added too much weight.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am currently making my rod holders/side frames. It is slow work when you have to measure everything twice and there are 20 measurements needed to make each piece. I can't cut corners b/c I've already caught 2-3 mistakes. Hopefully I'll improve. These are only the first two, so I have four more to go.

Other than that, I have a lot of little things to epoxy in and I am stalling. Big batch jobs are one thing because you mix lots of epoxy up and work fast before it kicks. Little batch jobs suck because you have to let a few stack up and then you feel behind. On top of that, they are usually more time consuming to do right. 

Fortunately, it is much cooler now, so I should have good pot life. 

Unfortunately, it is much cooler now and it will take a long time to set. 

I guess I should focus on the positives.
:

Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

I feel ya' man! I've been using slow hardener just cause I KNOW I'll have little to no help. It's been good so far but man-oh-man does it kick quite a bit slower than even I want...
Can't wait to see the deck go on!

I have a question though. When you were at THIS point:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu85/WhiteDog70810/PA240545.jpg

Do you think the hull would have been strong enough to slap some bench seats and a motor on it and go? Reason I ask. I'm already thinking about "NEXT!" Next will be super-duper bare bones for me! lol

PS, Nate. That garage is calling out for a longer boat! lol


----------



## WhiteDog70810

"Do you think the hull would have been strong enough to slap some bench seats and a motor on it and go? Reason I ask. I'm already thinking about "NEXT!" Next will be super-duper bare bones for me! lol "

Do you mean something like this?










...or maybe this?










I think you read minds.  I think of that every good fishing day and every day of every duck season I miss.  My next boat will be a study in simplicity.  I should have got the Gator Boat Co. plans and built a little 14' flat back pirogue (they call it a Cajun Skiff), installed 2 bench seats and scrounged up a 6 HP motor and got on the water.

My hull at that stage you linked could have easily handled a 10 HP motor if I added 3 bench seats .  It will be a more functional all-around boat once I make it as designed, but I should have built a simpler boat first to refine my technique.

Nate

P.S. To Whom It May Concern: If I used your boat's image above, please understand that I posted them only to illustrate the high level of art that I one day hope to emulate.  My build does not currently compare.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Oysterbreath,

Last year I ordered medium hardener around this time. I didn't have the guts to buy fast hardener, but when I started fairing, it would have been nice.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I just started calling around looking for plywood and got lucky really quick. Finding 1088 okuome or meranti in North Carolina was hard and required a 4 hour round trip once I did find it. I just found okuome 1088 about 4 miles from my house! This is very good. Of course, I'll have to look at the expensive hardwood while I am there and dream about cool ways to use it. Fortunately, my budget will keep me in check.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I'm back in business!  It has warmed up consistently, so I can lay epoxy instead of whine.  I finally finished cutting out my rod holders that I started working on last fall.  I made them out of solid basswood because I didn't want to buy another sheet of 1/2" okoume.  Because I used solid wood, I am laying glass on both sides to hopefully avoid breaking the tips of the rod holders off.  I was looking forward to building the rod holders, but making them was rather tedious and I can't wait to have them finished.  I also epoxied the elbow of the chase tube in place.










They look good in the picture, but every one of them is significantly different from its opposite despite my best efforts to make the hull perfectly symmetrical. At this point, I just hope to demonstrate how forgiving stitch and glue construction is, not awe you with my carpentry skills. 

Hopefully I'll have some more photogenic progress to show tomorrow.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I still get a little thrill every morning when I walk out to check my work from the night before and find out my epoxy kicked like it was supposed to.



Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

Glad to see that you are back at it. I was starting to think i might catch up to you fot a second there...


----------



## WhiteDog70810

That is what I get for moving to a place with seasons, though if we are competing, I've already lost. I plan on having it ready to go by duck season this year, hopefully sooner. If that doesn't happen, feel free to mock me.

I got the other sides of the rod holders glassed today, but between cleaning my house and mowing my yard, I made no pic worthy additions to the boat.

Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

> I got the other sides of the rod holders glassed today, but between cleaning my house and mowing my yard, I made no pic worthy additions to the boat.
> 
> Nate


lol, I'm WAY too slow to race anybody, that's for sure!
I HEAR YA'on the picture issue!
I'm in "it at worthy of a picture" zone too. It gets to ya big time. Well, at least it gets to ME! Main;y cause that next milestone is sooooo close, yet soooo far away!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

At a certain point, I find that most FG laminated pieces of wood look eerily similar, no matter how much personal artistry was expended on them. Once they are attached to the boat and you can see the progress, they are much more interesting.

Nate


----------



## yeffy

I like the build thread great pictures. 
I understand about all the restrictions in maryland even when your a home owner they tell you what you can do in your garage. As an interesting side note my neighborhood abolished the hoa by rule they must have 60 percent participation and everyone withdrew their support and blamo now I can have a veggie garden


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Frames/rod holders jigged in place, centered over transverse stiffeners, leveled and squared to the best of my abilities and attention span.



















A little shim of PVC I used to maintain the gap to prevent hard spots between the frame and hull.  Now I just have to remember to get them out before the epoxy really grabs them.










The frames are just tacked in place tonight.  I'll remove all the shims, clamps and supports, finish the fillets and tape the frames in place tomorrow.

Nate


----------



## GoldSpoon

Looking good Nate! keep up the nice work and thanks for your service to our Country!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Thanks GSLA, I appreciate it.

I actually made some decent progress this weekend.  Here it is all shimmed and clamped in place.  Those poplar strips on either side of the cockpit had a bit of warp and twist from being around too long, so I had to "massage" them into cooperation.



















I am not adding duck blind uprights.  Those vertical 2x2's are just clamped in place to give me something to clamp the strips to.  










I am kinda proud of this idea.  My fillet compound was very thick because I didn't want it to run out of the joints.  Unfortunately, it tended to drag when I tried to shape the fillet.  I didn't feel like fighting with it all night, so I clamped little chunks of PVC on both sides of the joint to act as dams.  I'll have a little burr on the edge to grind off, but I've got technology on the far end of that cord in the background to handle that.










I removed the clamps and gave the PVC a little tappity-tap-WHACK with a hammer and... voila!  The picture doesn't do it justice, but I am very happy with the result.  The joints will clean up nice.










Here she is as she currently sits.  I still have a ton of work to finish before I deck her, but they are bite size jobs versus trying to get a series of individual pieces mounted true to the hull and each other in a reasonable time frame.  I am really looking forward to getting this thing decked.  I expected to like working on the interior, but I much preferred fairing the outside.










Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

Looking really good so far. So if those verticals are not to be used for your blind, how do you plan to attach blinds? Whats gonna be your decking material?


----------



## Ken_Bales

Skiff is looking great, Nate! Looks like it's going to have lots of both...character and utility. Really enjoying the progress you're making! Congrats!!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Thanks guys,

I am not going to have a full cockpit blind like most duck boats because that forces me to anchor sideways to the wind. This is not a good boat for that. Instead I think I am going to get a canvas dodger for the front deck like you see on sneak boats and brush in the rest of the boat in such a manner that I can anchor the bow, throw a cover over the motor and sit down in the cockpit looking back toward my dekes. It promises to be an epic brush job!

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I've been chipping away at the boat.  I haven't posted much because progress has been slow and not particularly photo-worthy, but I have made progress never the less.  Everything that was tabbed in place is now filleted in place.  Things that were only filleted in place are now taped in place.  Many new things have been tabbed in place and await fillets.  In the mean time I have been sanding down all the nasty little epoxy drops and FG spikes and blending the edges so the floor is ready to fair.  Obviously the floor will not get the same attention to detail as the bottom, but I don't want it to look like a hack job either.

I've finally started putting the deck supports in place.  They are just tabbed right now.  I considered filleting in the ones in the center tonight, but I didn't want to reach over the supports I have clamped and curing.  I'll just be patient and get them later this week.










More of the same from a different angle. I've started using poplar for deck supports because 1.) I don't want to buy another sheet of 12 mm okuome 2.) Even if I did buy more, I moved away from my neighbor with the awesome table saw 3.) The poplar is straight, strong, light weight, clean grained and a pleasure to work with.










I've also added a row of supports under the gunnels.  This may be overkill, but I think it will make the gunnels hold the camber better.  My progress is limited by how many clamps I have on hand and what I areas have access to without potentially disturbing another piece.










I took these pics after I packed up for the night, so everything is pretty tight in the back of the garage.  When I am working, I move things around so I have much more room.

It occurred to me that once I get these last little things done, I can get the deck on it, then move on to paint.  The little things unfortunately add up and bog me down because I get very scatter-brained and inefficient.  Regardless, I am on the downhill slope!

Nate


----------



## jonathanglasser71

Nice work !


----------



## southernstrain

Looks great!


----------



## DuckNut

Garage is way too clean.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> Garage is way too clean.



I get that a lot. Go figure. Funny thing is that I am annoyed at myself for piling so much sh...tuff in it.

Nate


----------



## anytide

very impressive.......


----------



## oysterbreath

Back on target uh! Looking good. Oh, and I have to tell ya' I am STEALING your idea about using the two little pieces of PVC as a damn.


----------



## disporks

Alot of work and time, but those moments when you realize what you have done and what you will end up with are awesome. I'm in the middle of glassing on my build and you totally just gave me some inspiration to knock it out!

Just buzzed through real quick and all I can say is...Cant wait to see this boat in the water!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I worked on the rod tubes today.  My enthusiasm was lacking because I hate working in awkward areas and my rear flotation chambers are definitely awkward areas.  To perk myself up, I stared at it for a minute or two.  Having all the deck supports filleted in place is a pretty big step that I am glad to have behind me.  The hull is much stiffer now that I have all the interior framing in place and I can still lift one end of the boat with one arm.  The decks and foam will add some more weight, but I don't think it will be a significant increase.



















First I had to squish the chase tube elbow so the rod tubes fit around it.  I could have measured the holes in the bulkhead so there was no interference... ...I really thought I had... until the holes were drilled in the bulkhead and I realized I made one of those 1/4" mistakes that were going to haunt me.

Plan A sucked.  C clamps don't like to squish round conduit, so they slide off a lot.










Plan B was the chopstick method.  It worked much better.  I heated the elbow with the rod tubes out of the way because I don't want them to deform also.










Here is the hanger for the tubes clamped in place.










I still have to epoxy the tubes to the bulkhead and hangers.  I also have to grind off a bunch of epoxy drips underneath the framing.  Once I get that done, I can prime the whole interior with neat epoxy to seal all the wood I haven't epoxied yet.

The detail work on the interior overwhelms me some days.  It takes forever, which is problematic considering I have the attention span of a Golden Retriever on speed.  I am so close now that I can taste it and force myself to keep going, but dang it is hard sometimes.

Nate


----------



## gillz

Great work!! I'll be starting my cockpit/sole install soon so this is inspirational [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


----------



## oysterbreath

Looks like you'll be stayng on target for a while now. It's comming together great. The ONLY issue I see is the use of poplar. It's not all that rot resistant. I guess if you plain to coat it with epoxy you'll be fine though.


----------



## jonathanglasser71

Nate I dont know if it helps but I was feeling the same way about finish work on my boat about a hundred times during my build . I just pulled all the tape and paper after blocking out all of the primer on my deck and washed it to get ready for paint , it was all worth it !! The feeling of accomplishment when you are done will all be worth it . Keep up the great work !


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Hmmm, never really thought about rot resistance much. Poplar is fairly popular (now that's true wit folks) for strip built boats for many of the same reasons as okoume, i.e. straight, clean grained, easy to work with. Okoume isn't particularly rot resistant in its own right. If water gets through the epoxy long enough to rot either popular or okoume, I would have been screwed if it were cypress or cedar.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

Be careful with the poplar Nate. Okoume has little rot resistance, but is a strong, lightweight and flexible wood, but poplar is much weaker, stiffer and has no rot resistance. I was going to use it and was advised against it. Cedar and Cyrpess are more rot resistant because of there natural oil contant, and they have flexibility to keep them from cracking. 

Also I was told by other builders that the poplar mentioned in some of the literature is not the stuff we have here in the US, there is another australian species that has different properties. It has some resistance, and isn't as prone to fracturing if shock loaded. I ended up using southern yellow pine for my supports and cleats. You should be ok, just don't jump on the deck like a trampoline, and make sure to coat it at least twice in epoxy. 

It's looking good, time to take a few sick days and finish her up


----------



## WhiteDog70810

There are many things that I need to do to get this thing decked, but I got tired of moving the pink foam board around, so I started to hack it up to fit between the deck stays.  I figure if I hang my flotation under the decks, water can't saturate it.  Of course, if it breaks loose and starts to squeak, I may cuss the decision, but I think I have an adhesive plan that will mitigate that risk.










I spent all afternoon cutting up styrofoam and shaping it to glue under the deck.  It looks like I ran a pink muppet through a wood chipper in my garage.










It took much longer than I expected and I ran out of foam board before I finished.  I'll have to buy another sheet.  I wish the foam would stay in place for the pics, but I left 1/4" gaps around each piece for the glue to fill.  Therefore most of the pieces are on the bottom of the boat and the pic doesn't have the "wow" factor I generally strive for.

:










Hopefully I can get the mess cleaned up and get them glued in place tomorrow.  

We had four dogs, one of which was my old duck dog.  She hasn't been capable of hunting for the last few years and my wife absolutely vetoed having five dogs and was pretty dang adamant about never having four again.  Duck hunting without a dog isn't duck hunting to me.  So no dog = lack of motivation to finish my boat.  

I had to put my old girl down back in October.  That sucked, but didn't really change the situation because my wife still wanted to get the herd down to two (by natural attrition, of course), which is a decision that I support in theory, if not heart.  Since I have three pot-lickers that all have many good years left, I didn't let myself think about a new pup.  

My wife caught me swapping dog stories with a couple of trainers at the Easton Waterfowl Festival and later conceded that me not having a duck dog was an gross insult to the natural order of things.  Her exact words might have been less theatrical, i.e. "You're going to need another duck dog", but the sentiment was there.  Regardless, once I get this dang boat done, I can find my next pup without risking divorce.  The only problem is that I need to get the pup by February or March to even have it capable of rookie level performance by next season.  To start training a pup, I need time that is currently devoted to boat building, so I have a slight fire under my behind to get done with this thing. 

Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

My goodness Nate....did you give the Pink panther the "Fargo" treatment? Looking good though. Does the pink stuff stick to everything as bad as Styrofoam? My plans also call for foam under the decks so I'll be doing something sim. You're the guinea pig here man! I feel ya' on the dogs. I want some pig dogs but can't justify ANOTHER hobie. My current dog, although fiesty, is not long winded (or the right breed) for giving chase to piggies. Good luck with the future pup!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Why yes, the pink foam sticks to every dang thing. I vacuumed and vacuumed and vacuumed again... then I whipped out my handy leaf blower and finished it off. There was no foam to be seen by the time I started to lay on the epoxy.

I didn't get anything accomplished yesterday due to Xmas shopping, but I got it cleaned out tonight and put down a coat of epoxy on all the deck braces that have never been sealed with epoxy. Hopefully I can get a bit more done tomorrow.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I had fit of masochism that masqueraded as ambition this morning. I pulled the truck out of the garage and fired up the heaters to get it warmed from the low 50's to an slow cure epoxy friendly temp. I only have two space heaters, so I knew it would take a while. In the mean time, I had a bunch of detail, i.e. manual, sanding to knock out. Manual work and heaters are not a comfortable combination. The worst thing is that I ran out of time and didn't get any epoxy down! Oh well. I am sick of detail sanding now, so all those hard to reach places are done as far I am concerned. I definitely will use non-slip additive in the paint... plus that aerosol webbing stuff.

No pics today because it really looks the same, but with no shiny spots.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

In my previous post I mentioned being tired of sanding.  I've been fairly productive since then.  I decided it was time to prime the interior.  Self-leveling primer does wonders for a sorry fairing job and it lets you know where you really need to add a bit more fairing compound before final paint.

After primer, I started to hang and tack my floatation foam in place under the eventual deck.  I used bent 20p brads to hold the foam in place while I tacked it in place with epoxy.  It wasn't as easy as I hoped, but it wasn't terrible either.  



















I then recessed my deck cleats into the foam.  This way I didn't have to measure and clamp each deck cleat and then trim the foam to fit around them.  This plan worked great and saved me some time... I think.  Cutting the foam and getting an accurate pocket is harder than I expected, so I have included how I did it.  The easiest method would be to make some typed of formed wire resister and cut the foam with heat, but I don't know how to do that.

Place your cleat in position and mark around it.










The pocket is marked.










Set your utility knife a little deeper than the depth of your cleat.










Cut around the outside of your lines so the fit isn't too snug.










Cross-hatch the interior of the pocket with the utility knife.  On one side, cross hatch it in to smaller sections.  My dad used to recess door hinges in a similar manner










I found that my fingers worked better than any tool for this.  First flake out the small cross-hatched pieces to get room to work...










...then flake the slabs out.










The rough pocket.










Use a sharp chisel to scrape the pocket smooth.  Don't bother trying to use it like an actual chisel.  The foam just mushes in front of the edge and won't cut.










The cleat in place










The cleats epoxied in place.










I finished my slow hardener and started using fast hardener today.  Wow.  I had the temp up to 70 degrees for the slow hardener and had a halogen light on the epoxy and hardener jugs.  I had the sense to not put the light on the fast hardener, but with the temp that high, I had to move fast once I switched to fast hardener.  If you have a tendency to fuss with your fillets too much, use fast hardener.  You will stop that crap.  It routinely was already setting up by the time I finished mixing the next batch.  I am looking forward to fairing with this stuff, but when I glue the decks down, I'll have to drop the temp so that I have enough time to get the thickened epoxy on to all the deck supports.

Here is what it looks like right now.  It looks suspiciously like a boat.



















I have some deck cleats still to place, but the foam is all in place.  I tacked most of the foam in place to save weight, but I will run a solid seam of epoxy next to the side to provide a ledge for the deck to adhere to between cleats. I will eventually put a couple of tabs under each piece of foam to keep it from fracturing away from the epoxy above due to vibration.

I am almost ready for decks.  It would be easier to glass the decks once in place, but I was thinking it might be stronger (and neater) to glass them outside the hull while they are flat and then put them in place.  I was thinking that the camber will put the glass under tension and the ply under compression, making the deck more resistant to flexing.  Would the difference be of any significance? Would glassing the ply cause to ply to be too difficult to bend?

Thanks,

Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

Looking good so far dude, I love that camber but dude...GLASS THE DECK AFTER YOU PUT IT IN PLACE!!!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Happy New Year!

Yesterday I used my Sureform to knock the ugly off my epoxy from Saturday, then I used my fairing board to get the frames, deck supports, foam and tacks as level and fair as possible.  I recessed and glued the final cleats and started to fill some more gaps before I ran out of wood flour and had to stop.  I need to have a heart to heart with my logistics dude.

Today I started measuring and cutting the decks.  My dad once made a comment that you couldn't find a right angle in an old stucco house.  You can add my boat to that list.  Measuring for the decks was a lesson in humility.  I really tried to be anal retentive during the build, but there isn't a right angle or symmetrical measurement to be found.  It is obvious I will never be a cabinet maker.  The good news is that you really can't see the little mistakes if you take a step back, especially once the decks are in place.

I have gotten better at cutting curves since my last attempts.  I don't know what was different, but my cuts came out really smooth.  Maybe it was because I just didn't care because I knew epoxy would hide any ugliness.  It still amazes me how that works.

Here it is mocked up.  Don't get excited, it isn't glued down yet.  The decks really pretty her up.



















I also need to slap the fool who designed this thing.  I am not sure how he missed it, but the front deck is 49 1/2" across at the widest point.  One of the parameters of the design was that widest single pieces (the back edge of the front deck and the top edge of the front bulkhead) were supposed to be 48".  It isn't a big deal.  I just have a 3/4" gap on both sides that I'll have to fill.  I think the camber and the gap around the bulkhead to prevent hard spots and the thickness of the ply all added a little bit to the ultimate width.

I was still nervous about my decision to use 1/4" ply for the deck until this evening.  1 1/2" of camber over 48" really stiffens up 1/4 ply.  It was pretty stiff just clamped in place.  Once I glue it down and put a layer of 6 oz glass on top, it will be rock solid.  

Silica will help prevent my fillets from sagging, correct?  I was having trouble filling some of the bigger gaps.  I couldn't seem to get enough wood flour in the mix to keep it from sagging, yet still be workable.  I have more wood flour on the way and I ordered some silica at the same time.  I have a couple more gaps to fill and a few hard spots to level so the decks aren't wavy when I clamp them.  I can get the deck glued on thereafter.

I won't get anything accomplished over the next week because I am traveling to see family, all of whom will politely ask me how my boat is coming along and then feign interest if I provide an answer longer than one syllable.  I took a few days off afterward, so I should get the decks on before I go back to work.  I'm crossing my fingers because every previous prediction I have made has been terribly inaccurate.

I need to tell my logistics dude to order some paint...

Nate


----------



## Rosco

Looks great Nate. The silica will certainly firm up the fillets. I mix mine to a peanut butter type of consistency and they stay put without sagging.


----------



## oysterbreath

Nate, looking even better buddy!
That dang designer tricked you. 49 1/2" when it's supposed to be 48" is worthy of revenge...I say you get him back by sleeping with his significant other! That'll teach that pesky designer! 

Anyway, I'm thinking about using 1/4" deck too. I'm going haywire with the fiberglass though. Nothing less than 12oz. Heck, I may even add a layer of Xynole. Besides strength, you gotta worry about point impacts too. Like tools, pliers, and pointy little girly knees falling onto the deck. Gougon did some impact test and the decks with an extra layer of Xnole or Dynel fared the best.


----------



## DuckNut

> Gougon did some impact test


Somebody actually reading Epoxyworks????? 

Learn something?

Nate - your work is fantastic. Sucks for us your gonna be done soon!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

It's taken long enough that I can't help but finish one of these days. As far as my craftsmanship is concerned, you appreciation thereof is strongly influenced by the remoteness of your perspective. I am going to take your advice and glass both the top and bottom. Anything that leads to increased longitudinal stability of my hull is a good thing.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Views from last night:



















The Saran wrap on the ends of the gunnel panels is because those pieces need to be in place to allow me to clamp the decks to the correct depth, but I wasn't ready to stick the gunnels down at the same time.  If you find yourself in a similar situation, cover the ends of the piece with clear packing tape instead.  The Saran wrap got wrinkled and got caught in the epoxy and I had to grind it out.  It only took a couple minutes to get out, but clear packing tap would have done a better job.

Views from tonight:



















Lessons learned:

1.) No matter how many you already own, go ahead and buy another 20 clamps.

2.) Do not apply a bead of fast hardener epoxy over a big gap that you just filled with fast hardener epoxy.  A big fillet of fast cure cooks off even faster than normal (duh!).  The heat from the big gap will make your bead kick before you can get your deck on.  Guess how I gained that little pearl of wisdom?  One wasted night later and some quality time with the side grinder and I was back where I started.

:-[

3.)  Despite its PITA potential, fast hardener has its perks.  You can get a lot sequential steps completed in one day.  I place my epoxy and hardener outside and knockout my prep work with the garage doors open.  It is about 50 degrees outside now.  I have plenty of time to work.  Once I am done, I place my epoxy and hardener back outside, close the garage doors and turn on the heat.  I can knock out prep work for the next pour, get a snack, surf the internet for a bit and by then go make the next pour.

4.)  I was going to glass the bottom of the ply and wait for it to start to kick and then install the decks before it got hard.  However, it occurred to me that no one has made cambered decks of 1/4" ply here that I know of although we've discussed it.  In the pursuit of science, I just epoxied the bottoms of the decks and stuck them down.  My decks camber 1.5" over 48" and are supported longitudinally every 12" or less.  Horizontally they are supported every 24" or less.  With those specifications and after curing overnight, 1/4" ply is rock solid with no glass on top.  I can't feel any flex when I stand off the supports.  Obviously, glass is still in its future, but I was really curious how the ply would act without it first.  I'll put one layer of 6 oz on top and see how it does.  If it acts stupid at some point, I'll add more glass.

I am stoked to see what it looks like without clamps.  Unfortunately, I barely finished before I ran out of resin, so I can't glass and fair the decks until more comes in.  On the other hand, I can get out of the garage this weekend!

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

If you hear semi-coherent babblings that sound happy, it is me!










There is still more work to come, but I no longer have to imagine how it will look.

Nate


----------



## Net 30

She looks beautiful without all the white hoop earrings!


----------



## oysterbreath

HEck yeah she looks awesome Nate!
Man I know you are happy! Getting to that point is my next major milestone! 

So....only 6oz? Man, with only having 1/4" I think 6oz is cutting it a bit close but we'll see. I'm sure that camber will add a lot of stiffness to it though. It's looking real good thought. I'm happy for ya!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Yup.  It is very solid now.  If it were floating, I'd have absolutely no issue with jumping around on it with no glass.  It will be even stiffer after a layer of 6 oz.  If time proves it needs more, I'll add another layer.  When I posed this question on Bateau, Shine told me one layer of 6 oz should be all that is necessary.  

If it were flat, I'd glass the snot out of it.

Nate


----------



## disporks

Looking great!


----------



## TomFL

Nate that hull looks incredible. That last shot should be framed and hung on your garage/shop wall.

_T


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Thanks. I know where all the skeletons are hidden and I can see them if I try, but I don't care anymore. I am really happy with how it has come together.

Nate


----------



## Rosco

> Nate that hull looks incredible. That last shot should be framed and hung on your garage/shop wall.
> 
> _T


Agreed. Boat looks great.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Previous view:










View from Sunday morning showing Saturday's work:










View tonight:










It is disturbing that I got so much work done and it really looks the same.  No photo does fairing justice.  The deck is one layer of Quickfair away from being ready for primer!

I dorked around Saturday and got a late start.  I laid the glass on the deck, taped a few edges and filled the weave.  I didn't think too much about it until I finished and the clock said it was 2:30 am.  Shoulda got moving a bit earlier me thinks.

I went down to Chesapeake, Va to see a pair of American Water Spaniels work on Sunday, so no boat work got done.  The owner is looking to breed them this summer and I wanted to see if I wanted a pup out of the litter.  I was impressed and I think I'll put the deposit down.   They are very cool little dogs!  I've had very good luck with labs, but it is time to give something else a try.  

Fairing wasn't nearly as bad as before.  I think most of that is due to me learning to use a little bit of silica and wood flour in addition to the microballoons to get the fairing compound to spread smooth.  I leave many fewer ridges now.  My fillets are much better since I started adding silica also.  Previously, I was only using wood flour and it had a tendency to drag... and sag.  Wish I'd tried silica a little bit earlier in the process. Nothing sucks joy from your soul like trying to sand an ugly fillet pretty. 

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

Three words for you Nate: Chesapeake Bay Retriever.

Great build!!!


----------



## oysterbreath

Man it is looking awesome but you know what...I don't recall you ever writting about your interior paint. As a matter of fact...you just kinda snuck that in after you put the foam in didn't you? Well, what paint did you use? How did it come out? I just epoxied my insode too and I think I might paint. I don't wanna use top dollar paint on the interior though (I used Alexseal on the exterior) What did you go with?
NOW....back to the puppies! Did you take any pics of the breeders?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Oysterbreath,

That is just primer.  I painted the below deck areas before I hung the foam just to get paint some of the places I hope to never see again.  Interior paint is still to come.  I am going to use Flat Marine Enamel (FME) from Lock Stock and Barrel, Inc.  It is an oil based enamel.  It is a common choice for camo'd duck boats, but less common here.

DuckNut,

I'm in the land of Chessies and I should look at them, but I want to try something completely different.  That being said, I think I'd get along with one, but my wife sees a lot of them at her work and doesn't like them.

Did I mention that the little fur balls were really cool?  The iPhone videos and pics we took don't do them justice.  Suffice to say they were both really birdie, had very high drive and pretty good handles.  They move much differently than a lab.




























Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I haven't been slacking off.  I just haven't made any huge, photogenic leaps forward.  This isn't huge, but it is a sign of life.

The deck is fair fairish less wavy and the interior and deck are primed.  The rub rails will be painted, but they need a bit of detail work before paint.










Now I get to take it off the base, change the base a bit and put the boat back on it upside down so I can graphite the bottom.

Anyone have experience painting a boat with an airless paint sprayer? Could I get a light enough spray to paint the interior without drips? I don't mind rolling the big flat areas, but I don't want to paint the nooks and crannies. I am not looking for a mirror-like finish. Orange peel would be about perfect. It hides imperfections better.

I've given up time estimates.  It will happen when it happens.

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

I have painted some crap with a Wagner power sprayer. Worked good for what I was trying to accomplish. Take time to practice on some cardboard and you'll be fine.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I like the idea of the Wagner Power Sprayer. Home Depot has one that will spray at any angle. Wagner markets it as the EZ Tilt model. They are fine for oil paints that can be cleaned up with mineral spirits, but the manual says not to use them to spray industrial enamels. Most of the duck boat paints are oil based enamels, but are they "industrial" enamels? I don't want to by a $100 tool just to destroy it.

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

I have used BLP Mobile duck skiff paint and regular house paint and worked fine. The house paint did need thinning first.

Most industrial enamel paints have the consistency of ketchup - real thick. 

Weren't you the one that was going to buy paint from Lock Stock and Barrell? If so his paints will work.

http://www.lockstockbarrell.com/


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Yeah, I am planning on using the LS&B stuff. I just had no idea what industrial enamel was. Since the FME seems to be pretty tough stuff, I didn't know if the Wagner would work.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I have actually been working on the boat during my posting hiatus.  I've been fairing between home improvement shtuff that my wife seems to feel is necessary.  I, on the other hand, am starting to feel a simple tent with an attached workshop is the way to go.

There has been no need for pics because fairing pics never show anything until you compare the last pic to the first.  Rosco, Oysterbreath and I fell off the grid around the same time.  I desperately wanted to finish fairing and post pics before them to I could talk chit.  You can see how that worked out since they both started posting again about two weeks ago and I am only now opening my mouth.

I was supposed to be done fairing this weekend, but apparently the epoxy gremlins are not done grinding my bones for flour.  I laid my "last" layer of fairing compound last weekend and didn't touch it until this weekend.  All week I anticipated a joyous final sanding followed by a coat of primer and maybe event the first layer of graphite for the bottom.  It was going to be a monumental day... ...and then it was still sticky in spots yesterday!  

The soft spots are throughout the compound like the fudge in fudge swirl ice cream.  I measure both parts of every batch on a scale and the two parts of Quikfair are different colors, so I know the mix was right and the hardener was added.  I've made many previous batches out of this container, so I know it isn't the product.  However, I was mixing it in tall paint cups and I was in a hurry.  I am pretty sure I didn't mix it well enough based on the "fudge swirl" appearance and the resin in the bottom of the cup was lacking hardener.

So I still have no new pics because it looks the same or probably worse.  I am scraping streaks of unset epoxy off the hull, scrubbing it down with steel wool and acetone, sanding it down until I find more streaks and repeating the process until I have removed all of it or I am damn sure there is no unset compound under it (some areas set up normally)!  

Fortunately, it is just fairing compound.  Sanding off the entire last application is a nasty, soul crushing job and a waste of materials, but there is no structural consequence for the hull.  I'll clean it off with acetone again really well once I am done and apply a coat of neat epoxy to set any microscopic scum of resin that has managed to elude me, then I will hopefully be able to apply the last "last" layer of fairing compound.  Correction, it will be the last "last" coat because I'll have no more Quikfair afterwards, I am almost out of longboard sandpaper and I am tired of fairing.  I won't order more.

Hopefully I'll have some pics soon.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am done fairing!  Nothing like a coat of Darth Vader orange peel to bury all the little skeletons you are tired of looking at.










It is just too sexy!










I am adding about 1 part triple sifted graphite to three parts mixed epoxy.  I've been using 3/8" nap Wooster rollers for the first two coats and they shed more than I thought they would.  I don't want the bottom to be mirror smooth, but the lint specks are pretty ugly.  I am wet sanding with 120 grit between coats to get rid of lint and imperfections.  The result is fairly smooth.  It has a mild orange peel texture that would horrify a pro, but the texture covers up blemishes beautifully.  I will use foam rollers for the final coats and hopefully avoid sanding the last coat.  I think I'll lay on 4 coats total.  I have two on now and there are still a couple spots on the strake you can see wood through small streaks in the graphite.  All in all, it is very satisfying for the bottom to be one color.

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

Here is how I get rid of lint. I wash them with water and squeeze them out. Then I take a old junky roller that I made so it wont spin and put it in a drill and let it rip to spray out the remaining water and let them dry overnight. Then I roll them over painters tape to remove any lint that is left before I use them.

You also should be using rollers that are epoxy compatible.

Looks great Nate.


----------



## oysterbreath

> Rosco, Oysterbreath and I fell off the grid around the same time.  I desperately wanted to finish fairing and post pics before them to I could talk chit.  You can see how that worked out since they both started posting again about two weeks ago and I am only now opening my mouth.
> Nate


lol, that right there is too funny! I've had those moments too but always thought I was the one getting beat to the punch! Anyway, man, sorry to hear that you had the "uncured epoxy blues!" That sucks! Black paint is finally looking good though so you got it together eventually!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I have a bunch of West System foam rollers around from wetting out cloth and precoating with neat epoxy so I tried them tonight.  They lay the graphite on smooth, but they can't push it around.  The graphite is so tenacious that it tears them up quickly.  

I am also having a problem with chunks in the mix.  I am sifting the graphite and mixing the heck out of it, but despite looking smooth, I still had a lot of lumps today.  Admittedly, some of them were mosquitoes.  They really thought they needed to land on my little suburban tar pit.  Next time I work in the evening I'll Yardguard the garage and light some citronella candles.

I have one more coat to get this right :

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

Nate I had to step down the graphite in the last coat or 2 to get it to smooth out somewhat. I think I ended up doing about 25-35% on the first few, then went down to 10-15% or so for the last one so I could tip it. I used little short nap rollers that I scrubbed well to get all the lint off, the foam rollers fell apart on me.


----------



## DuckNut

If you light those candles while using ester resin you might just turn your house into a giant yardguard smoker. Careful.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

FC,

That might be a good idea.  The short nap rollers held together much better and a good scubbing has now been suggested twice, so I'll go that route.  The dilution sounds wise also.

DN,

Still only epoxy here.  I don't have enough redundant brain cells to scorch breathing flammable solvents in my garage... other than the occasional recreational occupational incidental huffing of acetone.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Here she is at the start of the day with her 4th coat of graphite and sans the brown paper.  I used the 1/4" nap wool Wooster rollers that are labelled for epoxy to spread the last coat of graphite.  They did very well, but I still have a few lint imperfections and the ever present fly paper effect.  I'll wet sand the bottom tomorrow for the last time.  I couldn't today because some of the rub rail was not sealed with epoxy and would soak up water, but I took care of that today before primer.  I'll start with 120 grit and take it down to 320 grit and stop there.  It is a waste of time to make the bottom that smooth, but I've nothing better to do until my paint comes in.










Here she is after I applied the first coat of primer.










I'll also give the sides a light sanding tomorrow and apply another coat of primer.  Sadly, I still have to install the drain.  I've been putting it off because I don't want to drill a hole in my boat.  Maybe I'll get to that tomorrow or more likely I'll find something else to do.

Nate


----------



## Rosco

looks great Nate.


----------



## DuckNut

Don't waste your energy sanding the hull. Leave it the way it is. The small specs of lint won't affect anything and will eventually fall off and nobody will see it once you flip it.

I've done a few hulls that were filled with orange peel and even though I don't have scientific evidence, I think it slides over vegetation better than perfectly smooth.

Don't waste time - spend the day with your family.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Paint is in!










This is the second coat on the sides.  It is a lovely shade of dried pond scum.  I'll give it one more coat and start on the rub rail.

BTW, don't wipe down a coat of oil based paint with acetone.  It takes a bit longer to dry than just dry to touch.  If you "wipe the dust off" with an acetone rag, your paint comes with it. I'll put it outside in the sun once I flip it to get it to set hard prior to putting it in the water.

Nate


----------



## anytide

lookinggoodnate...


----------



## DuckNut

Looks great Nate.


----------



## Rosco

Looking good man. Sorry I missed you on Saturday. I thought it would be an in and out thing, but my soon kept advancing. 6th in the state in the 100M dash so I couldn't break away. I'll give you a call soon to reschedule, I'm off to the keys next week for some R&R.


----------



## oysterbreath

POND SCUM looks good on her Nate!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

All,

Thanks.

Roscoe,

Sixth in state is pretty cool... ...definitely more important than seeing my eternal work in progress. Hopefully it will be floating by the next time you get a chance to see it. Enjoy the Keys.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I've been "distracted" for the last 5 weeks and haven't touched the boat.  The last thing I did of significance was to assemble and paint my new push pole from Patrick.  I got the standard 16' with a mud foot.  It will show up in later in other pics, so I'll wait to point it out.

As I've mentioned, I really needed to put the drain in, but have been putting it off for reasons that are hard to explain.  Hole saw bits have proven to to be mildly inaccurate in my hands.  The resultant hole always ends up being bigger than advertised.  While looking for options, I found a bit that is kind of a cross between a broken off regular bit and a spade bit.










I am sure many of you have them, but I previously didn't.










Ummm, they are a bit more accurate than I am used to.  The 1" bit made a 1" hole.  It cut really cleanly also.  The sad note is that I might have to use a round file to open it up so that the epoxy has someplace to go.

On to the next thing.










If you ever do something stupid like installing a rub rail with .5" x 4" slots in it, you need one of these little trim paint pad thingies to get paint where it needs to go.  I also think it would be the best thing ever for rolling and tipping, although you'd want a bigger size.










And after all that lead up, here is the money shot.  The rub rail has its first coat of brown paint and my push pole is ready to rock and roll if I ever get the dang boat done.  Ignore the mild streaking in the paint.  I wiped it really lightly with an acetone rag to get the dust off and the oil based paint was not amused.  I guess acetone will never be its friend, but I really think it would benefit from cooking in the sun for a few days despite curing for 7-8 weeks.  

I figure I need another coat of brown on the rubrail, then use some more pond scum green to tidy up the edges and get the drain hole epoxy and graphite sealed before I can flip it.  I worked really hard to get that bottom sanded smooth, but I think I will hit it with one more coat of graphite and leave it dimpled this last time.  When you sand it enough to get it really smooth, you find a few thin spots.  I should have listened to Ducknut.

Nate


----------



## anytide

thats sweet !!! 
- i mean the boat.


----------



## DuckNut

> then use some more pond scum green


Where's the camo? 

Very nicely done Nate.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

The camo plan was fun to consider, but once I realized that a really awesome camo job would be covered by an equally awesome brush job making said hypothetical awesome camo paint job pretty much irrelevant. It would also triple my paint time, which is already at 7-8 weeks, so such things cannot be taken lightly. On top of that, I know what will happen to the paint based on past experience and anticipate a recurrent need for touch-ups. Based on those considerations, a monochromatic theme was deemed more appropriate.

Nate


----------



## Gramps

> The camo plan was fun to consider, but once I realized that a really awesome camo job would be covered by an equally awesome brush job making said hypothetical awesome camo paint job pretty much irrelevant.  It would also triple my paint time, which is already at 7-8 weeks, so such things cannot be taken lightly.  On top of that, I know what will happen to the paint based on past experience and anticipate a recurrent need for touch-ups.  Based on those considerations, a monochromatic theme was deemed more appropriate.
> 
> Nate


Is that an eloquent way of saying, it aint worth the time? ;D Boat is looking good Nate, looking forward to the finish.


----------



## DuckNut

> Is that an eloquent way of saying, it aint worth the time


I believe that it was a politically correct way of saying - I'm spent and I am going to use this thing before the Chesapeake freezes over.

Because every serious duck hunter knows that all of those touch ups add to the uniqueness of the evolving camo job.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> Is that an eloquent way of saying, it aint worth the time
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that it was a politically correct way of saying - I'm spent and I am going to use this thing before the Chesapeake freezes over.
> 
> Because every serious duck hunter knows that all of those touch ups add to the uniqueness of the evolving camo job.
Click to expand...

You two must be psychic... or I am not as complex as I'd like to think.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

The view in the garage is the same thing all over again. By that, I mean the hull is right side up. I'll spare you all pics because honestly you've seen it all before, although this particular combination is somewhat novel.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

This paint is supposed to be compatible with an airless sprayer, so I had to try it.  If it speeds the process by making it easier to paint nooks and crannies, cool.  If not, this thing can spray at any angle.  I'll use it to paint the ceilings or something.










So I decided to jump right into the biggest nook and cranny I have.










It lays the paint down a bit thicker than I hoped, but it is smooth with no brush marks.  Once I get the hang of it, it should be pretty special.  The downside is that clean up takes forever after spraying oil based paint.  

I know that N95 mask doesn't do crap for fumes, but I was more worried about paint blow back at first.  Belatedly I discovered that spraying oil based paint under the front deck was basically huffing.










The next morning the paint was only "mostly dry", so I moved it outside to let the heat do its thing.  In the meantime, I started to tape off the "almost dry" deck for application the nonskid.  The floor paint set up very quickly once I got it out of the cool garage, but I felt a bit wilted by the time I was done.










I pulled it inside prior to painting and applying the nonskid so I could sprinkle the nonskid before the paint dried too much.  This still proved to be harder than anticipated.  I sprinkled play sand for nonskid over a coat of paint.  I think the effect might not be as consistent as I originally planned.  It was a very nice day and the paint seemed to dry within minutes, so I had to work fast.  I expect some variation in the nonskid across the surface, so I might have to touch it up.

While I am on the subject of paint, please note the color.  It is called "beige".  The online color charts made it look like a light khaki.  I come from a less sophisticated background where I have heard my grandma refer to this particular color as "titty pink" (I hope the mods let that slide).

Obviously the color needed some tweaking.  Fortunately my high school art class color wheel experience saved the day.  I have since added some of the brown I used on the rub rails to make a very nice khaki.  It looks much more appropriate and should cover the first coat well.










Back outside again to cook for the afternoon.  My boat now looks like a litter box.










I am pretty curious to get the sand off, but I want the paint very hard before I do so I don't sweep the sand out of the paint.  I warned my wife that I may haul it to work in the truck bed so it can cook in the parking lot all day.  That is a lie though.  I am not re-taping that dang paper to the rub rails.

Nate.


----------



## DuckNut

Looks great!!

Use a shop vac to sweep the sand - enough will be stuck.


----------



## Rosco

Looking good Nate. Let's see the pink! ;Db


----------



## jdpber1

looking good


----------



## oysterbreath

Looking real good man! You're ahead of me and Rasco again. You might be first to the water after all! I can't wait to see it floating!


----------



## Rosco

Oyster, what you doing on page 2? get back to work! it's not like you've spent 3 months on a console like some idiot that I know ;D


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> Oyster, what you doing on page 2?   get back to work!   it's not like you've spent 3 months on a console like some idiot that I know  ;D


We all have our **********.

Nate


----------



## Rosco

The console has turned out to be a sticky situation!


----------



## oysterbreath

LOL, page two...
What's that all about?
Well, I'm still working away just at a slower pace because I have NO clue what I'm doing! None what's so ever! And you know what...the challenge feels good!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

"And you know what...the challenge feels good!"

That is how it starts.  "Look at that little *******.  It is so cute.  I am gonna hug him and love him and squeeze him and name him "Remote Steering".  We are gonna have so much fun together and we'll be best friends... 

...wait a minute!?  What tha heck?  Oh crap, I'm stuck!"

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I won't drag this out.  Three years and 12 days after I started, she is done!  










Despite my initial misgivings regarding the beige color, I liked its contrast with the khaki of the nonskid, so I left it.  That saved me a lot of repainting, so I can't say laziness didn't play a factor.




























As long as you stand 10-15 feet away, the screw-ups don't jump out at you.  My trim painting is definitely better appreciated from afar.  I cannot paint a straight line without tape to save my life.  Additionally, no one with a square or a tape measure may come near her.  I started out with glorious plans of molding the wood into perfect symmetry, but ended up kinda wadding things together into the general shape I was looking for. 










Give my wife a camera and she takes a pic of a dog, but it happens to show how inept I am with a trim brush and it also shows the texture of the nonskid.  I am pretty happy how the nonskid turned out.  It still needs to cook longer to reach full hardness.  It sheds a little bit of sand right now which proved frustrating while I applied a second coat of paint to the interior.

I still have to float her, find a motor and a trailer, mount a Mini-Jacker and get it registered, but those fall under the category of "minor details".  I won't get her wet tested for another two weeks, but that will allow the paint to fully harden.  I am curious how hard she will be to sink.  I will have pull the plug to see if my "upright flotation" works with 190# of full water buckets on the stern deck. I'll post pics.

Nate


----------



## Gramps

Looks awesome Nate! Congratulations on getting her to this point. I hate to say it though, in the last picture the boss still doesn't seem impressed. ;D


----------



## WhiteDog70810

She is a hard crowd.


----------



## firecat1981

Looks good enough for government work Nate! Perfection is overrated and much less fun.

Congrats, but she ain't done till she's done, so get her running and in the water!


----------



## DuckNut

I thought the dog was the supervisor checking out the paint job.

As you have found out, building from scratch is "very"!

Very rewarding
Very educational
Very time consuming
Very trying

You did a fantastic job and ended up with a vessel you should be very pleased with.

Congrats Nate!!!!


----------



## Rosco

Congrats Nate. We are starting to see some awesome redfish action up here in Maryland and your boat will be able to hunt those in the shallows.


----------



## Recidivists

Congratulations! It has been a pleasure to read and see your progress over the years.


----------



## oysterbreath

Dude! This is an awesome picture:









That pic alone is worth all of the effort and time! REguardless of what you say about the quality of the paint job itself it's got some beautiful contrast! Congrats!


----------



## yeffy

Looks great. Now get a motor on her and dunk her at the susky flats you'll be able to go anywhere out there in that. Just watch for idiots in deep v's running aground when they see you with their bent rod radar


----------



## oysterbreath

> ...Just watch for idiots in deep v's running aground when they see you with their bent rod radar


 That's too funny!


----------



## fishicaltherapist

Make sure you wear your life jacket while fishing the first few times out. You might fall overboard from laughing so hard at those "run agrounds" trying to check you out!! [smiley=1-lmao.gif] Beautiful build, congratulations for what you accomplished. [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Now that the boat is done, I've moved on to the accoutrements.  I once had a dream of a buying a TSG jackplate, but since that is no longer an option, I was just going to buy a Mini-Jacker and be done with it.  However, I just couldn't bring myself to do something that sensible.  I started out looking at very basic homebuilt jackplates.  Once I saw that it wasn't much more complex to make an on-the-water adjustable plate similar to the TSG jackplates, it was all over but the crying.

I ordered supplies last weekend and scraped together some necessary equipment during the week and have spent this weekend cutting and grinding.  I used a 12" abrasive disk (~$6)on my miter saw to cut the angle stock.  If I ever do something like this again, I will pay for the more expensive saw blade ($67) that is made to cut nonferrous metal.  Spinning that abrasive disk was hard for my saw and it bogged down when cutting across the flat of the angle.  I blew the breaker a few times and the motor housing was hotter than I like when I finished.

I decided to build the jackplate to mount a 20" shaft on a 15" transom.   I see more long shaft motors on Craigslist at better prices around here.  I'll just have to makes sure they are not high torque sailboat engines.  However, I had enough aluminum left over to also whip out a non-adjustable motor bracket for a short shaft motor if I get a chance to borrow one this season.

The jackplate will give me 4.5" of setback and 3" of vertical adjustment.



















Here it is all mocked up with nowhere to go.  I'll take it in to the drill press at work later in the week.  I am really hoping one of those guys in the machine shop can heliarc.  I am primarily bolting this thing together so I can alter it as needed, but I would like to get a couple of little pieces welded in place.

I kept my overbuild bug locked in the dark corners of my brain throughout my build, but I let it out when I was buying materials.  For some reason, I decided that I needed 4"x3" leg aluminum angle stock instead of 3"x3".  I didn't do this to get more setback, but to get a bigger footprint on transom.  I added a about 2.5# to the total weight between that and some other "improvements".

FYI, I weighed my boat this weekend.  It came in at 317#.  I was hoping for 250#, but that is tolerable for a first build, decked boat.

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

You better get a move on - duck season is approaching faster than you are working!

I like its simplicity more everyday- Great job Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

No chit. I missed teal season completely. Opening day of the 1st split of big duck (but not black duck) season was Saturday. I won't try to learn a WMA marsh on opening weekend; too many crazies and too much adrenaline. It is not the time to be dorking around learning the lay of the land. 

I had planned on getting out to the marsh to scout the weekend before this one, but I drew emergency duty. I need to find an out of the way ditch bank I can legally launch from and then pole back into the marsh while avoiding the main channels and the mud motor manics that are running them. I am not sure what next weekend is looking like. I don't have a dog yet, so I am not as proactive about getting out there as I should be. After hunting with a dog, everything else is just shooting. I am not a great shot and I hate losing cripples.

Nate


----------



## oysterbreath

Ahhh man, I should have shared the good news. I picked up a Vance manual jack plate on Ebay for $140. There were a couple of them available at that price point. They are normally $175. Mine looks good. You'll get more cool points for building one though!


----------



## DuckNut

Don't mind oyster - he can't help himself.........

Go for the points


----------



## TidewateR

turned out awesome! steer clear of the oysters for a bit, eh? ;D


----------



## Shalla Wata Rider

Wow Nate , I just had to take a walk down memory lane (started on page one 2010) and it was amazing !!!! It would've been easier to give birth to a elephant ;D...but you did it and it looks AWESOME!!! What an accomplishment...Many people start projects,But only a few finish...You are a finisher.  [smiley=1-thumbsup2.gif]  Hats off to you....Great Job!!!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> Ahhh man, I should have shared the good news. I picked up a Vance manual jack plate on Ebay for $140. There were a couple of them available at that price point. They are normally $175. Mine looks good. You'll get more cool points for building one though!


Yeah, you could have kept that to yourself.

;D

Cool points are good, right? All the people who used to be cooler than me still are, so I am not sure if I'll benefit.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

So I said something about buying accessories for the boat a while back.  Here is the hood ornament.










I know you are thinking, "okay, that is a cute puppy, but so what?"










Folks, that is a a six week old puppy retrieving a live pigeon.  I am stoked!  If I can't make that into a duckdog, it is time to start collecting stamps.



> Three words for you Nate: Chesapeake Bay Retriever.


The American Water Spaniel plan fell through, so I moved on to plan B, which was basically any well bred, birdie Lab or Chessie pup I could get ahold of by the end of January at the absolute latest so I would at least have a rookie next season.  Despite my history with Labs, I would be completely box-of-hammers-stupid not to look at Chessies now that I live Maryland and I obviously liked what I saw.  I just have to wait for her to be weaned now.

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

Haha - you will never have another sissy lab again.

Congrats and post pics when that guys eye turn yellow as that means it is GO time.


----------



## anytide

> Haha - you will never have another sissy lab again.
> 
> Congrats and post pics when that guys eye turn yellow as that means it is GO time.


looks like a little deke.....


----------



## DuckNut

> looks like a little deke..


Yep...cept smaller. Deke was 21lbs at 8 weeks.


----------



## permitchaser

Well  here's a shot of my hunting Dog.  Her name is Annie, she's a German Shorthair pointer.  Here she is pointing quail. Notice her Right paw folded up against her chest


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Cool. I've never needed a pointer because I've only really hunted ducks. If I ever visit pheasant country I'll have to hustle to keep up with a flushing Chessie. The spaniel hunt tests have been opened up to retrievers, so I may crash their party just to keep my duck dog legged up for where I visit my parents in Kansas or get a chance to chase grouse or woodcock here in Maryland. My dad preferred GSHs for upland, but his never took to retrieving ducks although many claim they love it, so we switched to Labs when we lived in Louisiana.

Nate


----------



## permitchaser

Nate, I know what you mean. My dog loves to retrieve but not the water. I have guided duck hunts in the past and still have my decoys so I know about Labs and Chessies. Now I just upland hunt unless someone wants me to call for them


----------



## DuckNut

Your chessie will hunt pheasant just fine. Work on his range so he stays close and your good. 

I got a spring pup and sent him to the trainer and in the fall we went to SD to pick him up and we went into the fields with 4 hunters and a 6 mo old future monster. He hunted and retrieved for all 4 of us at 6 months. Since then I have seen some of the most astonishing retrieves from him and even a couple I wish he never would have done. Now he is 12 and living out his life in his pool in the backyard.

Your hooked now ;D


----------



## WhiteDog70810

The little monster is home now. My lab was a retrieving machine and I will shamelessly brag about her to my death, but this pup is very special. I think the next 10 months are going to be exciting.

Nate


----------



## yeffy

Those chessies are special dogs. The most well behaved dogs in this state are all chessies what makes them really special is they are incredible family dogs as well as work dogs. My buddies dog travels to Alaska to work with him guiding every year. He warns you of bears 1/2 a mile away. Hell of a nose on those dogs. You could probably train them to herd sheep if you wanted.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I sure hope you are right. I am hoping to step up my game with this pup. I am a decent trainer, but my skills, or lack thereof, held my last dog back. She had the goods to be major league and I only succeeded in making her dang good. I am going to be hanging out with a crowd that trains to a higher standard this time around.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

I can't believe you guys have spent more then a page just talking about dogs, and not one recent picture of the boat has been posted! Priorities man!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Ummmmmmmm... ...motor vs pup. Pup won. Now I have to start saving again.

:-[

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

Dog food - $100 month
Training aids - $750
Part time pro help - $500

A brand new shiny boat build he can trash - priceless!

Please forgive Firecat - he just doesn't get it.


----------



## firecat1981

No I get it, I've had many dogs. But adoption fees are only $60-100 at most SPCA's (sorry I don't believe in buying even hunting dogs). Don't need any real money to train a dog if you are doing it right! 

That leaves plenty for a small outboard, hell at lest borrow a trolling motor to get out on the water with.


----------



## blittle

Nate - maybe you can pacify these folks with pics of the dog sleeping in the skiff?

Regardless - what colors did you use? I've sped read and didn't see the actual color. But I dig and might go similar for my nano.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I don't mess with looking for cheap hunting dogs. It ain't worth my time. We foster for Lab Rescue, so I look at every new one with hope. I haven't see one with any ability come through yet. I do have three rescued potlickers, but they mostly hold down the ground so it doesn't escape. I love them, but they are useless. When a dog needs to do a job, you want to know that momma and daddy and gramma and grampa, etc did the job and did it well.

I'll get the JP finished soon and borrow a motor. Pics will follow.

Nate


----------



## permitchaser

Right on Nate, You can't just use any dog to do a job like finding birds, pointing them and then retrieving. They have to have those relatives that are National Champs. Mine has all and she cost as much as a wireless trolling motor


----------



## firecat1981

Like I said I get it, don't agree, but I get it. But this ain't the cast and blast section, lets see some boat porn man! Hell at least post a picture of the pup, lol.


----------



## permitchaser

[http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w564/tevans48/018_zps1f9f1cb0.jpg/img]


Here you go firecat


----------



## permitchaser

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w564/tevans48/018_zps1f9f1cb0.jpg/img]


Here you go firecat


----------



## permitchaser

I did exactly what Gramps said to do and no photo


----------



## firecat1981

Permit when I put in the link this is the picture that came up, but I'm not sure if it's right cause it's not Nates boat or a dog?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

To each their own.

I haven't been completely puppy obsessed. I was waiting for my title and registration to come in. I also still need to complete an online boating safety course to be legal and finish my jack plate so I can bother borrowing a motor.

In the mean time...

So back to boat stuff: What is the best way to etch a HIN into a transom? Lacking a better plan, I figured I'd scribe two guide lines, write the number in marker and then etch it in with the Dremel. However, my handwriting is awful and my writing with a Dremel is worse. Is there a better plan? I am all ears.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

Cut a strip of aluminum and stamp the HIN into it, then epoxy it to the back of the boat. Is it really that difficult to get a title a reg up there? I thought it would be hard here, but it only took a few minutes and one receipt.


----------



## permitchaser

Firecat thanks for your help. I do some practicing to see what I am doing wrong


----------



## firecat1981

Permit I'll PM you


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> Cut a strip of aluminum and stamp the HIN into it, then epoxy it to the back of the boat. Is it really that difficult to get a title a reg up there? I thought it would be hard here, but it only took a few minutes and one receipt.


I live too close to DC to expect efficiency.  There is no online option.  Closest office is in Annapolis, which might as well be in the next state if I need to get there between 9 and 4:30 on a weekday.  Snail mailed in forms filled to best of my ability to find out what I owe in taxes.  Sits in inbox for an indeterminate amount of time after traveling to Annapolis tied to the neck of a drunk homing pigeon.  Eventually a very nice lady calls me up with total.  No over the phone credit option so snail mail in check.  Sits in inbox for an indeterminate amount of time after traveling to Annapolis by camel from by way of Nebraska. Title and registration show up right before I leave town for 3 weeks.  There is nothing hard about it, but the process is slow if you can't physically go to an office.

I was lucky to see the requirement for boating safety training.  They didn't post it next to the registration info, so I only happened to find it while reading some stuff that 90% of the boating population never reads.  You'd expect they would have a "hey dummy, to be legal you need these things" list posted front and center on the boat registration page.

Nate


----------



## anytide

I was lucky to see the requirement for boating safety training. They didn't post it next to the registration info, so I only happened to find it while reading some stuff that 90% of the boating population never reads. You'd expect they would have a "hey dummy, to be legal you need these things" list posted front and center on the boat registration page.

--that would be too easy..


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Look at this dinosaur!  



















It is all mine!  It is a mid 90's 20 HP Honda Go-Devil.  A friend had it sitting around and just gave it to me to get it out of his hair.  I pulled the carb to rebuild it and found out it is cheaper to just buy a new carb versus the rebuild components.  I am currently prepping the fan cowling and recoil starter for green paint while I wait for the carb to arrive.  It is heavier than I'd like, but the Honda is a nice engine.  My dad thinks I'll sink the transom at the first launch.  He might be right, but if it works it will be a nice rig.










Because he gave me the motor, I was able to buy a ready-to-roll trailer instead of a $200 fixer-upper.  It is nothing special, but it rolls and is not loosing pieces in the process.

The same friend offered me a place in his camp/lease.  It has both hunting and fishing, so I am very excited.  It is very hard to get a place in a good lease in Louisiana, so I was surprised how casual he was about it. They need more hunters up here to move the birds around up here from what I understand.

I also got some shop time at work (...and a lot of help from our Navy machinist) and got my jack plate drilled and slotted.  The machinist and his mill made much better slots than I could with a drill and hacksaw.  I knew I was dealing with an new level of OCD when he chided me because my scribed guideline drifted 1/32" across 15".  I also learned that a drill press makes a true 3/8" hole when you use a 3/8" bit.  Due to my minor errors in measurements and drill placement, I couldn't get things to line up until I over-drilled my holes 1/16".  That being said, I am very happy with how it turned out.  I made a long shaft outboard bracket because used long shafts are cheaper here.





































I'll have to tweak it a bit for the Go-Devil, but I've got a plan.  Pics will follow.

Gris (the pup) is growing like a weed.  She is started to understand the idea that bringing a thrown object back to me instead of trying to get me to chase her garners a more positive reaction.  Despite her hard headedness, she is much more soft mouthed than my last pup.  I limit myself to three retrieves a day interspersed with puppy push-ups and stay drills right now. She is just a baby, so I have to keep it fun.

All told I am having a blast up here trying desperately to get the boat ready to hit the marsh the last split of duck season.  I have the pieces and only need to get them prepped and assembled while training a pup along the way. I've already told another friend of mine that I need a shooter for next season so I can focus on the pup. He didn't argue.

Nate


----------



## Shalla Wata Rider

Congrats' you've worked hard and now your getting the blessings ....The best ones are yet to come ...Sunrise with Gris .........and........Dinner


----------



## DLBjaxbeach

Gotta love a score like that! Free ninety nine is my favorite price.


----------



## DLBjaxbeach

Gotta love a score like that! Free ninety nine is my favorite price.


----------



## firecat1981

> I made a long shaft outboard bracket because used long shafts are cheaper here


Looking pretty slick Nate, I found out the same thing about the drill press and had to over drill too. You are absolutely right about the price of outboards, I've been thinking of repowering lately and 20" shafts are a dime a dozen in great condition, but 15" are a total crapshoot. I might add a riser plate to my TnT if I decide on the repower.


----------



## yeffy

If you do make any of duck season check out heaters island in the Potomac you can take your boat to the island and then hunt on the downstream side for ducks. Public hunting land so need for a lease not very much pressure because you need a boat to get there and the island has good rabbit squirrel and turkey populations as well. Launch at point of rocks.


----------



## permitchaser

That Go Devil will go real skinny and should work fine. I used one in Alaska on a fishing trip. It takes some practice to get it to do what u want


----------



## oysterbreath

Whaaaaaaat! Man, I thought I scored big with the jackplate but you my friend out did me! You scored a SWEET go-devil man! That thing is awesome, just needs a few things and it's good-to-go from the way you tell it. And the trailer. Good-on-you man! Now lets get some on the water pics with that hood ornament in action!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Yeah, I'm pretty happy about it. My original plan was to make one token trip to the marsh to drag the boat off the truck, launch it, pole a bit in to the marsh and throw out some dekes just to go through the motions. Now I can really get out there and learn the marsh. I think last split opens tomorrow and goes through late January, so I should be able to make this happen barring serious badness.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I have taken my boating course, my trailer is legal for the time being and my drill guide came in early.  I drilled the transom and mounted the jackplate last night.










This thing was pretty handy to prevent drilling wonky holes.










Here is the jackplate in place.  I painted it with aluminum primer and then truck bed liner.  The white stuff is 5200.










Here is my motor after paint.  It turned out well.










It is too heavy for my wife to hold up her half, so I had to create a motor hoist.  Nope.  Nothing could possible go wrong here.  Definitely not.










Well, it is on the boat.  The boat, motor and jackplate will require some touch up paint as the process was not without difficulties.  I do not have a good feeling about this.  That is a really big motor.  I don't want to Eskimo roll my skiff.  I will hook up the power and fuel tomorrow and hopefully get it started.  I am trying to think of a nice shallow ramp with no wind, current or witnesses.  The Potomac is too dangerous for a test drive.  If it feels too unstable, I'll have trade this thing out for a lighter motor.

The odd looking dekes on the front deck are in various stages of paint touch up and the little Go-Devil is for my friend's boat that I may use this week if I can't get mine running... ...or of it feels like a death trap.

Nate


----------



## Recidivists

Yay, the motor! That does look like a big honker, and that Go-Devil looks to be a better test ride. What does that Honda weigh?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

It is supposed to be 192# if you get a 20 HP Honda Go-Devil from the factory, but this isn't the original motor. This engine replaces the factory 18 HP Vanguard. I suspect the change added a few pounds more than if it was the 20 HP from the factory. Also, those weights are usually dry. I bet it weighs 200# now with oil.

That little Go-Devil has a 58" shaft that would really suffer on my high jack plate. If it had the 72" shaft, it would be the smarter option. I made a standard shaft mount for my jack plate, but there was no space to tilt the motor. The long shaft mount is non-negotiable.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

That thing is pretty huge. Be careful on the launch. Even though the shaft on the smaller one might not be ideal, maybe it would be good enough just for a quick test run?


----------



## anytide

your gunna need a big bilge pump, be safe........


----------



## firecat1981

Lol you might end up looking like I did in my old highsider with a 96lbs engine and tank on the back and nothing else, lol, just slightly unbalanced.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I launched it today!  I couldn't spend much time playing as I'd like unfortunately.  My wife took video and pics, but I'll post them later.

The Good:
1) I didn't drown.
2) The boat didn't sink.
3) The transom didn't delaminate at the edges.
4) It is stable enough that I could fly fish from the front deck.  Two people could hunt out of it.  However, it will not be a two person fishing boat until I switch motors.
5) The boat actually launched and floated nicely with an acceptable amount of squat.  The motor is heavy, but not too heavy.  I can make it work with some tweaking.  

The bad:
1) It poles like chit; the morning after habanero basted cat tacos chit to be exact.  I am a bit bummed since that was a important consideration, but I am not surprised.  The boat was not designed for this motor.  I tried to compensate by poling from the bow, but the tracking is terrible when I pole into the current.  It poles easy with the current, but who cares?  That is like saying your girlfriend is hot if you turn out the lights.
2) The motor digs like an armadillo.  The cav plate of a well adjusted Go-Devil runs just below the surface at full throttle without the driver having to orangoutang on the tiller.  Mine dove like a crank bait.  I could barely steer.  It wanted to run 18" below the bottom of the hull and squat the transom.  It only stopped 18" below the hull because it hit the bolt that prevents further downward travel.  The cav plate can be adjusted to compensate and I had to replace the bolt that limits max downward movement at idle.  I tried to adjust the old limiting bolt, but it was too short to be of any benefit.  On closer inspection, it looks as if it has been fractured off in the past.  How the heck do you fracture a 3/4" bolt that has no significant shear forces applied to it?!?!
3) I think some water leaked in around my lower jack plate bolts. Not much, but I'll have to address it.

All in all, I call it a success.  I found some details to iron out but that was inevitable.

Pics and vids coming soon.

Nate


----------



## Recidivists

So glad to hear of the launch.

I'm sure you're doing all due diligence. Have you reached out on the mud motor forums for some advice?

Sucks about the poling trial.


----------



## anytide

you didnt drown -thats a plus.............
motor too heavy = too much draft = hard to pole, someything lighter will improve all aspects of the bhote.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am not excessively worried about the motor.  I've already tweaked the cav plate and replaced that limiting bolt.  I'll see if it is better or worse next launch.  If I can't get it right using the owners manual, deep thought and luck, I'll call Go-Devil and start surfing the Mudmotortalk forum.










This is how she floats empty with 6 gal of fuel forward.  The ramp wasn't excessively steep, but it wasn't flat either.  You can see the water line on the transom showing that I didn't push the transom under backing it in.










Here it is with me on the bow.










A blast from the past for comparison.  My decks had an almost negligible effect on draft.  I am very happy about that because up until now I would have swore they doubled the weight of the boat.
































































Just a bunch of shots of me taking the walking tour of the boat in no particular order.  I had to shorten my tiller tie down prior to starting the motor.










My poling attempts: I actually am very comfortable poling, but this is not a good example.  As mentioned, I had no tracking whatsoever.  It will pole better one day and I will happily make do until that time.










My initial run: I was caught by surprise when the prop dug down the first time and spent the rest of the run having to muscle the tiller trying to keep it from digging too deep with limited success.  Once it is adjusted correctly I'll be able to stand up straight.

I am hunting tomorrow through Saturday.  I should get some of the kinks worked out.  I'll post more pics afterward.

How do you embed a video from Photobucket?  I've played around trying to embed the vids as both images and media and always end up having to direct link to the videos, which isn't as cool.

Nate


----------



## Brett

2 words, Nate: Walk Board!










Is that your best side? :-? ;D


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> 2 words, Nate: Walk Board!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your best side?  :-?  ;D


1) Yes, a walk board is necessary.

2) Alas, there was a time, but now I have to coast along with my winning personality alone. Thank God I'm already married.

Nate


----------



## anytide

thats a lot of motor......... you could always use it to plant corn  
maybe add sponsons for a little more lift /stability  ?   = more work  

boat looks great !!!!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> thats a lot of motor......... you could always use it to plant corn
> maybe add sponsons for a little more lift /stability  ?   = more work
> 
> boat looks great !!!!


It is too late to add sponsons to this hull. While sponsons might help, they won't help as much as they would if the hull was designed around them and they get in the way the rest of the time. It actually handles the weight fairly well considering my fears. Once I get the motor pushing forward instead of down, I'll be in high cotton.

Nate


----------



## anytide

pfd


----------



## oysterbreath

DUDE! I'm so freaking happy for you! You are on the water! Man, sorry the poling thing didn't turn out as you wanted but glad to hear that otherwise you consider it a success!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Thanks Oyster.  I think it will pole well with a lighter motor, so hope is not lost.

For all you Florida types, I have some pictures so you don't forget how the other half lives.  My intended boat break-in was thwarted by the elements over the last three days.










The way out.










The way back.










Low tide.










Ice/frozen mud piled to side so that the trailer could sink.  Before I waded in to that slop to move it, that was all mounded behind and under the trailer.










Winching across the ice.










All mudded up.

Suffice to say, I didn't get my motor set up right.  Ice floats the prop of a Go-devil up, so breaking ice using one is very hard on the driver and you make no speed.  Some other guys where able to get way back in the marsh where the ducks were, but they had to work their engines hard to get there.  Since my engine still has some fuel starvation gremlins and is very unreliable at this time, I didn't want the drive any further in than I was willing to pole out.  Since the ice made poling miserable, that meant I walked in to the closest open water.  I got skunked as a result.










On a positive note, the marsh is beautiful and there are definitely ducks there, even if they kept their distance this trip.  The others say the fishing is good when it is warmer.  I am definitely going to join the club for next season.

Nate


----------



## anytide

looks like fun.....gettum next time tiger.


----------



## Shalla Wata Rider

Did you get a chance to get out between "Arctic Blasts" ??? Look'n forward to updates...Hope all Is Well .


----------



## grovesnatcher

Wow now that awesome! I get upset when it blows to hard at the ramp in 70degress ;D


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Don't be impressed by my cold tolerance. I might have been born in the great white north, but 18 years in Louisiana sweated the antifreeze out of me. I still think 40 degrees and raining is as cold as it ever needs to get. I'll work hard for a duck, but that ice wasn't cool.

Between driving to Kansas for Xmas and a full court press to be ready for duck season, I blew my budget and have had to behave myself all of February. That wasn't hard since it has been miserably cold, none of the fish I know how to catch are biting and my pup isn't ready to tackle a resident Canadian. I have officially decided that duck hunting without a dog isn't worth the effort.

I am hoping to get out next weekend to work the kinks out of the motor. There is something wonky with the fuel system despite changing out both the fuel pump and the carb. I can get it started easily and it will run for 5-15 minutes before it dies. Once I pump up the line again, it easily starts up again. If I keep pumping the bulb, it won't die. I suspect I either have a leak in the vacuum line driving the pump or my bulb restricts flow too much. I don't have any leaks in my fuel line.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

...or worst case scenario, my fuel pump can't handle the resistance of 16' of 3/8" ID fuel line. If I have to move that tank to under the rear deck, I'm gonna be pissed.

Nate


----------



## southedisto

Love the boat

Had the same fuel problem with my boat not too long ago. It was the bulb. Also, check and make sure the take is venting like it should. 

And one last thing, post some more pics...


----------



## permitchaser

I love those Go-Devils. I used one in Alaska and they will go anywhere 

Try putting a new bulb on there. Also check the fuel pickup In the tank and make sure it has a clean screen. Doesn't the motor have a fuel pump. If you have a long fuel line you may need to prime it. Then there's the carberator


----------



## DuckNut

Call your local John Deere place and ask them what size fuel line do they use on their lawn tractors - it may just be that it is starving.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Briggs small engines and many outboards run 3/8" ID. Honda small engines usually use a unique size line (probably metric) that is smaller than 3/8". I am using 3/8" ID due to the length of the gas line. It fits snugly and doesn't leak, so I didn't worry about it.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Replaced the super duper, fancy Bass Pro lever primer bulb thingy with a plain Jane Walmart primer bulb and fixed my fuel starvation problem. The Bass Pro primer had two stiff one way valves while the old school primer bulb has one soft one way valve.

Of course the steady fuel supply allowed me to figure out that the nasty rattling vibration that was previously only occurring as the motor idled down right before it died became a nasty CYCLIC rattling vibration when the motor idles without dying. It goes away at higher throttle. I had a hard time figuring it out until my buddy listened to it and told me I have slop somewhere in my u-joint. Sure enough, the attachment of the u-joint to the drive shaft has a loose key and a couple degrees of wiggle. I knew about the loose key because I previously reseated the key and tightened both bolts, but it was looser than ever today. I'll call Go-Devil and get them to send me another u-joint, hopefully with a pinch-fit collar that will really lock that key in place. Yeah, more mechanical work!

I love getting equipment that has been sitting around for years running again. It is such an efficient use of my time. 



Nate


----------



## Gramps

> I love getting equipment that has been sitting around for years running again.  It is such an efficient use of my time.
> 
> 
> 
> Nate


I feel your pain Nate! The boat is looking great, glad you figured out the fuel issue, and sure as hell glad you're getting to use the boat! Hang in there, it won't be long till every T is crossed and I dotted, then the world will be your oyster!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Talked to a mechanic at Go-Devil about the key backing out of the key way. It turns out Go-Devil uses a key that is 1/1000th bigger than the key way to keep it from backing into the U-joint. I got it in last week and installed it today. The engine is running smooth now and the key stayed in place. 

I took the boat out this afternoon to tweak the idle height and cav plate. I now have it set so that it doesn't dive under power, so I can steer it without throwing my full body weight on the tiller. It still squats the rear of the boat badly when I give it full power, but this seems to be because I don't have enough speed to get over my bow wave, not because the cav plate is diving like a crank bait. I will just have to carry more weight forward, probably another fuel tank for starters. If I can get the nose down, I should get less suction from the transom. I think it throws too much of a wake at the moment.

My max speed today was 10 mph heading downstream. I know long tails are slow, but does this seem right for a 20 HP long tail on a 320# hull with a 40" bottom with a light load (me @ 230ish#, 6 gal fuel and 20# of gear)?

I'm slowly chipping away at it.

Nate


----------



## Shalla Wata Rider

Happy you are working out the bugs [smiley=1-thumbsup2.gif].
What about adjustable trim tabs (the screw kind), or airiating the hull somehow... create some bubbles forward...may  require   a combination of both...or neither... :-? Sorry....Sometimes I'm Full of .......Useless info.
Love your build though .... Can't wait 'till the R&D is over and you can just "Peel Her Back".....


----------



## Recidivists

I still say you need advice from a mud motor forum. That plate diving thing is a conundrum.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I'm on MMT now. I have the cav plate tuned in so it doesn't dive. I think I am under propped. The motor didn't seem to be working too hard.

I just had a builder tell me he puts a 9x7 prop on his 20 hp motors and also found out that GD sets up their 20 hp with a 9x4. I figured mine was the factory standard since the previous owner would have just replaced the prop with the GD standard issue.

Right now my plan is to move more weight forward and get a Tiny Tac so I have a true picture of my rpms. 

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> I'm on MMT now.  I have the cav plate tuned in so it doesn't dive.  I think I am under propped.  The motor didn't seem to be working too hard.
> 
> I just had a builder tell me he puts a 9x7 prop on his 20 hp motors and also found out that GD sets up their 20 hp with a 9x4.  I figured mine was the factory standard since the previous owner would have just replaced the prop with the GD standard issue.
> 
> Right now my plan is to move more weight forward and get a Tiny Tac so I have a true picture of my rpms.
> 
> Nate


What do they say about assuming anything?

On the advice of the guys over on MMT, I measured my prop today. It was 8" wide! The prop has minimal wear, so it is an 8x4 prop for a 8-9 HP Go-Devil. I don't know why they used such a little prop on this motor, but at least I have fixable problem and a place to start. I'll still get the Tiny Tach and may end up getting yet another prop after I evaluate the RPMs this one generates. From what I understand, I'll grind a prop down every couple of years or maybe more if I use it in sand. There is a lot of sand where I'll be playing.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

It has been a long time since my last post and all sorts of fun has been had in the mean time.  I finally swapped in a 9"x5" prop.  Of course I broke my prop shaft in the process and had to replace it also.  Once I got all the pieces of the motor back together, I took it for a ride with my Garmin running GPS.  It did not squat as badly as before and it does go faster now, but it is not as fast as I hoped.  Based on my GPS, I went from 8 MPH average to 11 MPH average.  I swear it feels faster than that, but I am probably being hopeful.









In my defense, I would like to take this moment to point out that I have very big hands.

I've actually caught a few fish out of it so far, mostly little small mouths on the Upper Potomac near my house.  The tinymouth bass above was the first and, sadly, the biggest fish caught in my boat to date.  I went out with Rob/AKA Rosco yesterday on the Patuxent and caught some even tinier rockfish and bluefish.  This was my first exposure to bluefish and I will henceforth refer to them as "miserable, viscous, bait destroying little [email protected][email protected]&ds" for the purposes of being concise since the stream of invectives they induce is much, much longer and less apropos for polite company.  We were actually pretty happy to find them 'cuz it was feeling very skunkish for a bit.  I wouldn't have cared though since I was much more paranoid about taking the first other person on my boat than actually catching a fish.  I was alternating between waiting for the transom to fall off, looking for water pooling in the bottom and watching Rob for his reaction.  I was dreading the feared "Oh... ahh... this is... ummm... nice... soooo... I... uh... forgot to tell you, but I just remembered that I... need to babysit my mother-in-laws cat this morning".  

Fortunately, my boat didn't try to kill us and actually seemed to be on its good behavior.  We were able to follow one little creek up into the marsh and then easily spin and follow it back out through 6-7" water despite being stern heavy.  It planes better with two people than with just one and I was actually able to pole it pretty well when out of the main current.  That single discovery really made my day.  The current/falling tide were strong enough, the water deep enough and my push pole short enough that I can make plenty of excuses for the tough stretches in the main current.  I think a poling platform of some sort would give me a much better position from which to pole around the motor, but I am not sure how I could get up there without rolling the boat over.  While not uncomfortable under normal circumstances, it gets snaky if you step off center line too rapidly.  Rob and I got in the habit of warning each other before we stepped down from the decks and some of the bigger wakes rocked us pretty good.  Nobody fell out despite my refusal to get off the decks for some of the bigger wakes, so it wasn't unbearable.  It still didn't set any speed records.

I have my SWS Sissy stick mounted now and it proved to be a huge help when running.  I have one final detail to wrap up after which I will post pics of the finished install.  If any of you is considering getting anything from Anytide/SWS, I'll vouch that he makes good stuff.

Lastly, I got to meet Rob and check out his build.  His pics and videos are great, but they do not do his work justice.  He is a cold dude, but based on what I saw, I suspect he could be described as meticulous on a good day and OCD on a bad one.  Whichever, whatever, it works for him.  That hull is going to be beautiful and as solid as a battleship.  He also has the most spectacular finish on a bilge I have ever seen.  I walked away feeling like a Neanderthal who tied a few logs together and proudly called it a boat.  On the other hand, he is already dreading the first scratch while I am long since past such concerns after high centering mine a few times on rocks in the Potomac.

Nate


----------



## Rosco

It was great meeting you as well Nate.   Your boat is fantastic and  I enjoyed running in areas that I always avoid in my larger boat.   The fishing was slow but I liked your reaction to those bluefish and their razor sharp, lure destroying teeth.   It's too bad that we didn't get a chance to tangle with some larger ones.  Perhaps if we had gone south instead of north....   After you left, I spent the rest of the day out on the water with the neighbors and family and we had breaking fish in the river around 7pm a bit further south.   Of course, I didn't have any rods with me .

Hey, I've never been described as a cold dude before.  OCD yes, meticulous ... maybe  ;D   Here is a pic of Nate and his awesome little skiff in the skinny stuff.


----------



## DuckNut

> He is a cold dude


OUCH!!!

Picking up on his personality from his posts, he seem much warmer.


----------



## anytide

nice pole........


----------



## WhiteDog70810

> He is a cold dude
> 
> 
> 
> OUCH!!!
> 
> Picking up on his personality from his posts, he seem much warmer.
Click to expand...

That was supposed to say "cool dude", but you all know that already. I think the spellcheck gremlins were at play.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I ran down to Piney Point solo yesterday to check it out.  I was just trying to figure out the water here and catch whatever was hanging around that I could get to, so I was just using a 1/8th oz jig on my light rod hoping to stumble into some white perch.  










I finally put a real fish in the boat!  I don't normally apologize for iPhone pics as I will never be confused with Ansel Adams, but the sunscreen that was apparently smeared on the lens is bad even by my standards.  While no monster, this one was respectable enough that I wouldn't have been able to surfboard it in with my medium rod and it was feisty on light tackle!  I caught one other smaller speck, but it should have been a keeper also (>14" for specks in MD).  Other than that it was a tough day.  I managed to bolo the lower jaw of a needle fish and snag a 24" wide stingray.  The stingray challenged my light tackle, but once you know it is just a stingray the thrill is over.  I got excited for half a second after I set the hook and my drag started to buzz, but then the tip of his wing came out of the water and threw a bucket of ice water on the crotch of my hopes and dreams.

I ended up fishing exposed points closer to deep water because the shallow water, protected water that I much prefer to fish was barren.  The wind was 3.5-7 mph which wasn't bad until the it switched to the east and came in from across the bay.  Even 7 mph can feel uncomfortable when you are in a light, flat bottom boat and you give the breeze a 20-30 mile head start.  There were also plenty of wakes.  This is not what I designed the boat for, but the "soothing slap of the water and the gentle rocking motion" allowed some thoughts that have been forming since I've been using my hull to crystallize.  In build threads, the builder's replies which detail what he would do differently after using the boat were the most valuable to me when I was initially brainstorming my design.  Hopefully, mine help someone.

1.) Every feature that stabilizes tracking is toward the stern in most hulls, mine included.  This is for a reason and can't really be changed, but when poling from the bow a problem arises.  My stern has so much resistance going into the wind that the bow is looking for any reason to slip to the side.  I spend as much energy correcting the tracking as I do pushing the hull through the water if there is much wind at all.  I am still hoping that a lighter motor will significantly help this issue.  However, if you know you will fish solo a lot and expect to frequently pole from the bow, consider "double angling" the transom (this is the term Go-Devil uses for it).  Basically, the transom is angled at the standard 15 degrees, but the bottom 3-4" of the transom changes to a 45 degree angle.  This somewhat softens the lower edge of the transom so that it isn't as piggish when pushing the boat backwards.  It does nothing for tracking, but it lowers resistance, making it less squirrelly to pole from the bow.  It also shortens your planing surface by 3-4", so it is undesirable unless you know, like I did, that you would pole the boat in reverse more often than forward.  However, I can see this negating the need for the setback of a jack plate in most sub 25 hp poling skiffs which only need 4" of setback.  

2.) I cambered my decks 1.5" over 48" to stiffen them.  I hoped this amount of camber would not be uncomfortable.  Yesterday I fished for about 10 hrs and around mid-day I started to notice my feet going numb and tingly after standing on the decks for extended periods and then feeling much better when I stood in the cockpit where it is flat.  I was clenching my feet to stabilize myself from the rocking.  I am not suggesting that no one should camber a deck.  If I did it again, I would still camber it the same amount because I love the way the water just runs off instead of puddling.  However, you need casting and poling platforms for comfort.

3.) My deck is 6 mm okume with a single layer of 6 oz cloth on top only and supports every 16" or less underneath.  I was trying to reduce weight and relied on the camber to stiffen the deck.  I was very happy with the result because it was rock solid... ...in my garage... ...and when I used it in January... ...and when I use it early in the morning.  This lamination schedule is great... ...until it bakes in the sun for a few hours.  In the end, epoxy is just plastic and plastic softens with heat.  I cannot feel the deck flex, but after a few hours in the heat I can hear the flotation foam under the deck make a very, very tiny crackle as I step or shift my weight.  I laid wet towels on the deck yesterday to protect it from the sun.  This works and I can work around the issue with minimal hassle, but I would rather have beefed up the deck than have to think about protecting it.

4.) I made my hull flat bottomed in pursuit of shallow draft.  Mine does what it was designed to do very well and I can't wait to use it in Louisiana, but I am still searching for the places in Maryland where a light, flat bottom skiff is optimum, especially in the summer.  I keep finding myself fishing at spots where there is shallow water immediately adjacent to deep water and current, i.e. channels.  The constant exposure to wakes that results tests my inner ear coordination.  I could still feel the ground wallow around underneath me when taking a shower @ 1 AM.  The sound is another issue.  I can keep mine quiet in protected water by standing on the bow and keeping the flat bottom submerged, but that was no longer working yesterday afternoon.  Every third wave popped the bow up enough to make the hull thud like a drum.  If you need a more all around boat for inshore use, some amount of vee is necessary.  This is common knowledge that you probably already possessed , but some things bear repeating.

I still am very happy with how the boat turned out.

Nate


----------



## tomahawk

A good read Nate, very interesting breakdown. I hope to be doing the same soon.


----------



## anytide

glad to see you on the water Mr. H


----------



## Rosco

Nice spec Nate. It was pretty choppy on the Patuxent yesterday so you would have hated it over here with the big waves and boat traffic. Anyway, I've been thinking about good places for your boat down here and I though back to when my buddies and I used to fish on an old Montgomery Ward aluminum boat back in high school. When it was rough, we would fish the upper St. Mary's river north of Tippity Wichity island and have a blast as it would switch from brackish to fresh very quickly. We caught reds and then the fattest largemouths ever that were feeding on mud minnows. The problem is that I don't know if there is still a ramp down there for public use. The one that we used 25 years was off Adkins road. Anyway, I'll ask around and see if there is still a ramp back there. If so, I'll go with ya!


----------



## CedarCreek

Nate, glad you got some action. Those specks are always a welcome sight especially close to home. The link below should have the ramp Roscoe is talking about. You're right about most local waters, there are shallow near shore flats on most of them but the channels drop off and can get bumpy some times. I hope to get down there in a week or so.


http://www.visitstmarysmd.com/activities-attractions/water-activities/public-landings-launches/


----------



## WhiteDog70810

There appears to still be a ramp at the end of Adkins Rd according to Goggle. I can't find anything else north of the island or south for that matter. It is not listed on the St Mary's County website. It looks like a community ramp.

Nate


----------



## Godzuki86

Any updates of late? Really like your skiff Nate!

Andy


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Andy,

I put a little update in the Cast and Blast section last night. I am just using it and slowly working out the kinks. My dinosaur motor gave me some fits earlier this week. I called off my hunt and came home to see the small engine repair guys. They put an electric fuel pump on it and and replaced two rusted out coils. It seems to be running good now, but I missed 3 days of hunting. I need to take it out tomorrow to wet test it before next split opens. 

I have now concluded that if you don't spend at least half the cost of a new motor fixin' any free motor, you're lying.

My 2.0 hull is going to be a simpler creature built specifically for a big longtail mud motor. I'll mess with that once I get to my next job. My wife will be thrilled.

Nate


----------



## Godzuki86

Hope your not frozen up there! Any hunting lately out of the boat?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Hell, that last front didn't move a bird from what I saw.  We are still shooting at the same resident birds as last year.  Right now, I suspect there are still plenty of groceries up north and much of the water isn't frozen yet.  The majority of ducks will hunker down and wait out a single front in situations like that. Our marsh has very little forage of the natural/legal variety, so we depend on new birds moving through.  The nonresident birds don't stick around unless they find where the locals are baiting.  

I didn't hunt this weekend, but the report from the camp wasn't exciting.  It was in the upper 60's today.  This ugly front that is coming on Wednesday might push some birds through, but I won't be back to the camp until the 19th of December.

Nate


----------



## jacobhicks112

this build is awesome! GREAT LOOKING SKIFF. im gonna have to build my gunnels/rod holders like you did yours. is he pvc that goes through it for wiring?
-Jacob


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Thanks!

Yeah, those PVC pipes are the chase tubes.  If I did it again, I'd use fiberglass tubing instead of PVC and I'd change the rod holders so that I had a slot for two side by side rods in the top position and a single down below.  It really doesn't have enough room for spinning reels as I have it laid out now, but I have enough length to stagger how I place them to avoid reels bouncing on the rod underneath.

Hopefully, I'll get around to fixing all the little wounds that arose from the steep learning curve while setting it up.  She needs some TLC as is.  Overall, I am pretty satisfied with how it turned out.

On another note: Due to my heavy motor, the base of my plate is usually submerged, which creates a circuit between the fasteners and the aluminum.  I painted the aluminum of my plate with bedliner, but I have pitting of the underlying aluminum at every nick in the bedliner.  While my knee jerk reaction is to replace all my silicon bronze nuts with stainless steel, based on the galvanic series table, the 300 series (18-8) stainless steels (0.00 - -0.15) are actually further from aluminum alloys (-0.70 - -0.90) than the silicon bronzes (-0.24 - -0.27).  If I am reading this correctly, the bronze is a secondary problem after the stainless steel.  This contradicts everything I have ever heard.  However, just to further confuse things, I found anodic index charts that say 300 series steel acts as less of a cathode than silicon bronze.  This makes more sense to me, but while the numbers for the bronze and the aluminum are almost the same on both tables, the numbers for 300 series stainless steel vary.  I assume this is due to the steel being active or passive, but I guess I don't exactly understand those terms.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

First, I have to brag. I moved this past summer and this is my new-to-me shop. After the Bat Cave, this is disgustingly luxurious, but I feel I can adjust to the excess.

After a couple of years of use, here is a follow-up:

1.) It is still floating.

2.) It is surprisingly intact.

3.) The materials have generally held up well to use. All of the damage was my fault IMO. Specifically, the graphite did very well. It is mildly dinged in a couple places from high centering the boat on a gnarly rock and wallowing it back off. The sand rubbed it off the edges of the chine. This is very mild considering that I used it as a mudboat. No wood was exposed.



















The bad:

1.) The 1/4" ply that serves as the outer layer of my rub rail is entirely too light. I have busted it in at least 3 places without trying too hard. I will eventually upgrade it to something more substantial, but for now I will just fix it and get back on the water.

2.) I used play sand under paint as my non-skid. It has rubbed off on most of the high traffic areas. I should have used non-skid additive in the upper-most coat of epoxy and painted over it. I'm gonna just use Hydroturf once I get around to scraping off the old non-skid.

3.) Now for the big ugly. Way back when I was sheathing the hull, I mixed a bad batch of epoxy. I thought I got it all off, but I apparently did not and an area of delamination appeared on the bottom of the hull at some point or another. I found it at the end of duck season last year and only just got around to fixing it.










That's not too bad is it? It isn't too big.










Hmmm, it was worse than it looked. This is the initial debridement. The unset epoxy was in a streak moving forward from the delamination.










Here it is after I feathered the edges and followed some additional unset epoxy.

The bottom was very tough to get through. I used a Dremel to get the initial access and used a chisel to fracture up the over-lying glass. It was about 1/8" thick and didn't want to shatter under the chisel. There was no water damage under that delamination.

I've reglassed it the weekend and have applied and sanded the weave fill coat and the first fairing coat. Since fairing is kinda dull to photo document, I'll just post more pics once I am ready for the graphite.

Nate


----------



## DuckNut

That is the extent of the problems for your first build?

I say you did a great job and stop your whining!


----------



## tomahawk

Nice....I'm jealous of the shop. The skiff held up well. I hope mine does as well.


----------



## scsdiver

Really Nice Build!


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I have too many competing responsibilities and my poor boat keeps getting the short end of the stick, but I have slowly made some progress.










Here it is with glass laid up in the defect. I used a lot of glass scraps to fill the depressions to minimize the amount of fairing compound needed to get it fair.










...and it still took a lot of fairing compound to get it reasonable fair.










I have two coats of epoxy on the bottom. I was using medium hardener and it was 90+ degrees, so I ended up laying the graphite on thicker than normal because the roller could not move it around for very long before it kicked. As a result of the short gel time, I didn't get the surface as smooth as I'd like, although I did much better than I expected. I should have used slow hardener, but I had to make do with what I had. Once I smooth the ugly spots, the bottom is good 'nuf. 

I rolled and tipped the graphite. I've tried to tip the coat with brushes before, but I always get bristles in the coat and never felt the result was as smooth as it should be. This time, I used a paint edger (the type with the single use pads). The pads do a very good job for tipping the coat IMO; no fibers. You have to hold it just right to prevent chatter, but other wise it was great.

I am adding a bow eye, repairing the rub rail in three spots and giving the sides a coat of paint while I am at it. Hopefully this weekend will see that all done. Once it is back on the trailer, I can put it back to work and make other improvements (build platforms, sand off nonskid and replace with Hydroturf) as time permits.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

eh why repaint, just chop it up and build another, lol.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

firecat1981 said:


> eh why repaint, just chop it up and build another, lol.


Don't wish that evil on me!

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

oh come on, you can't tell me laying down some fresh glass on that repair didn't get the old wheels turning again.


----------



## Robby Stubley

WhiteDog...it's always easier to spend someone else's money BUT if you find yourself in the market for a different, lighter motor, I highly recommend looking into Copperhead surface drives. I don't recall reading the weight of your boat, but the 18 or 23 shouldn't have any problem pushing your boat in the mid-20's. My 13hp weights about 120, and I know the 18 uses the same sized frame. I can't imagine the 23 weighs much more.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

FC,

Oh, I've got more schemes than money or time allows, but I'd rather be using a boat than making one and I haven't used this one nearly enough yet. My next boat project will be a 12' SOF rowboat for throwing in the truck bed and fishing farm ponds. In the meantime, I am gonna build platforms.

Robby,

I'd definitely get a 18 hp Copperhead SD if I went that route, but I just want an 10 hp outboard. I honestly made this hull too narrow for appropriately sized mudmotor, regardless of type. A light SD would work, but not well enough to justify the cost.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

The bottom has been fixed since summer, the rail has been repaired for months, I have the SC registration and and vinyl ID numbers on hand, but I keep letting life and the weather get in my way. It got too cold for paint or epoxy for a couple weekends, but it warmed up enough again that I can paint. I started to touch up the spots in the deck that the duck blind and motor handle rubbed in the nonskid. Since it was a first coat, I just used beige paint that wasn't mixed to match the nonskid areas. I thought about trying to match my nonskid, but the light colored blotches on the darker nonskid got me thinking...










I like it. If you ever just slap a boat together and then want to hide the imperfections, I can vouch that a camo paint job is awesome.

If you are OCD, don't freehand camo. Do you know how difficult it is to make something perfectly random?

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

My god man, it's been like a 7 month repair, get that thing in the water already! You know once it has damage it will never be the same, so you might as well build a new one.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

firecat1981 said:


> My god man, it's been like a 7 month repair, get that thing in the water already! You know once it has damage it will never be the same, so you might as well build a new one.


You are an evil, evil person.

However, I agree on one point. The situation is out of hand. The boat hasn't been in the water since February '15. I've been adulting or pinging between my other interests too much to get in to the garage consistently. It is shameful.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

We need a few more old school builds started. You proved your skills, now time to put them to work. I know what you mean, because of my shoulder I can't go out for months, and this is my favorite time of year to fish.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Learn to cast with your other arm. It feels funky in the beginning, but you'll pick it up fairly quick.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

I can cast with my left, but at least for the next month I can't reel with my right. I'll be healed up soon enough, then start working on a few small projects as I've lost my window for the big one.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

No new pics yet, but after years of whining about my mudmotor, I bought a fixer upper 2001 2 stroke Nissan flavored Tohatsu 8 hp (NS8B) for $75. It weighs around 60#, so it should be a really nice power to weight ratio for my boat. Sadly, it has a ~45000 serial number block; if it had a >/= 77531 serial number block, I could have simply added a 9.8 carb and had a 9.8 hp motor, but it isn’t cost effective to convert the <77531 8 hp blocks to 9.8 hp. Oh well. 

It has a good bit of cosmetic ugliness, but the guts are reasonably uncorroded. I know it needs a lower unit rebuild because that is why the previous owner was selling so damn cheap. I got it fired up yesterday without too much issue just to see if I could. It idled smoothly, but it wasn’t pumping water, so I shut it down fast. I pulled the lower unit and the impeller was in perfect condition, but the little retainer roller bearing looking thingy was loose in the bottom of the impeller housing, so I think the main shaft was spinning and the impeller was sitting still. Since I already knew the lower needed work, I left it off and will take it to the mechanic this week. I know the water seals are all shot and I hope only clutch dog is stripped out, but the gears may be stripped also. Wish me luck. Maybe the bill could be under $300.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Well, the bill was not under $300...

...but I have a running outboard now.

Nate


----------



## Copahee Hound

It never is. What all did they find to be wrong with it?


----------



## WhiteDog70810

He rebuilt the lower unit. I knew it was jacked, so the cost is not a surprise.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I threw the outboard on the boat today to get it set up. The outboard is a long shaft and I built and installed the jack plate so I’d have about 2” of travel up or down when initially set up with the cavitation plate 1” above the bottom. However, I thought the antiventilation plate to clamp height for a long shaft was supposed to be around 20”, give or take a fraction. Wrong; the shaft of my motor is about 22”. I maxed out the jack plate’s height and the plate is only 5/8” above the bottom with no further wiggle room. I’ll have to add a 2” extension to the top of the jack plate now. Kinda pisses you off when you actually try to plan ahead to only still be wrong.

Nate


----------



## firecat1981

Short and long shafts are never really 15 or 20". Yamahas and zukes are 17 and 22 if memory serves.


----------



## Copahee Hound

I feel your pain, but on a much smaller scale. I just built my hatch storage drains to 1” diameter only to find out that a generic 1” drain plug is really only .75”. That also explains why my short shaft Yamaha engine was mounted 1” over the top of the 17” transom


----------



## WhiteDog70810

All, 

I measured for a tiller extension for my outboard. Based on where I stand when running the mudmotor, I need a 52” tiller extension! This seems hella long, but I’d have to move my oh-shit-handle back to run a shorter extension. 

Is 52” ridiculously long? I run some twisty little creeks with the mudmotor from the same spot, but it takes some gymnastics and I have blown a turn or two.

Nate


----------



## Copahee Hound

Over 4’ long does seem a little extreme. I would mock one up with PVC and dry test it (while on the trailer) and get a better feel for what you actually need. 

edit: Pics may help, but you may also need to move your grab handle aft from where you were using the mm


----------



## firecat1981

The longer the extension, the worse maneuverability becomes. I'd do a mock up. That long does seem excessive, and with that much tiller you will only be swinging the motor a few inches in either direction. Slow speed tight maneuvering will be a pain.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I am repainted my jackplate with bed liner after getting it back from the welder. When I disassembled it to paint the parts, they were stuck together. I don’t really care that the bed liner stuck to itself under compression, but I actually had to hammer the stainless bolts out because galvanic corrosion locked them in their holes.

These are bolts that do not need to be removed for anything other than repainting. Should I use dielectric grease or silicone in the bolt holes during reassembly or just leave it alone? The corrosion is not structurally compromising, but if I can prevent it, why not?

Nate


----------



## RJTaylor

TefGel is the best at keeping GC at bay.


----------



## WhiteDog70810

RJTaylor said:


> TefGel is the best at keeping GC at bay.


Thanks, I’ll give it a try.

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

Jack plate is modified, painted and remounted. I reassembled using Tef-Gel in the bolt holes to hopefully avoid some of the galvanic corrosion. The welder thought it best to span the weld with that patch. It isn’t as clean looking as before, but pretty is as pretty does.









I haven’t set the cav plate an inch above the bottom yet. Life keeps interfering. I don’t know if I want it any shallower though. I freaked out when it didn’t pump water while testing it in a barrel and called the mechanic thinking I had been screwed. He kinda scratched his head (over the phone) and said it ran fine in the shop. He then asked about the water level in my barrel and you could tell his opinion of me dropped once I told him that the water was a bit over the cav plate. He told me fill the barrel up to the top of the lower unit where the impeller lives. Once I did, it pumped water fine. I honestly did not know that the impeller couldn’t self-prime prior to that. However, even if I could set the cav plate 3” above the bottom (yes, I know it is not gonna happen), when I stand in the back to start it, the motor will be submerged to the top of the lower unit. Once the impeller primes, I guess it really won’t matter where I set the motor height. I’ll never get it high enough to suck aerated water with this hull.

Note how the tiller will not clear the deck. Pat, I will be in touch.









Lastly, here it is in all it’s glory. I still need to move the sissy stick back to the next frame so I can have a more reasonable tiller extension. I might or might not get to that before I wet test it. I’ve waited a long time for this, so I need to get it wet next weekend. I think it will be perfect for snakehead fishing up here. They like the shallow, weedy areas that this thing was made for. 

Nate


----------



## WhiteDog70810

I took the boat out last Sunday and it definitely doesn’t squat when floating empty now! It was beautiful to behold after all that time floating like a fat assed bassboat. I should have taken a pic, but I couldn’t bring myself to be “that guy” at the ramp. I’ll try to remember to mark the sides so I can reference some draft numbers in the future.

I didn’t really explore the poling thoroughly. It felt more responsive for the tiny bit I did pole, but only time will tell. I suspect the wind will blow it around like a kite unless I pole from the stern and put a fairly heavy ice chest on the bow. 

I estimate it to be as fast as my mudmotor once I got it trimmed right. I would have actually confirmed that, but it was frequently raining, so I left my phone in the dry box. While a bit more speed would be nice, it is just an 8 HP and I need to be realistic. I had to trim all the way down to get over my bow wave. I hope that I can bring it up one hole once I get a tiller extension and a cooler on the bow. I also feel like it could handle a 9” pitch prop instead of the standard 8” pitch, but I guess a TinyTac would be wise investment before I start buying props.

I did get freaked out thinking I burned up my motor on the first trip. I was running down a creek and bumped something; not hard, but I clearly felt it. I kept on going, but the motor felt “off”. It started to slow down and I looked back and there was no water coming out of the tell-tale! I shut it down ASAP and it was already hot and steaming. I lifted the lower unit; there was nothing clogging the intake. I splashed the intake with water to try to clear out anything that I maybe couldn’t see and then tried to restart it quickly to get the water pumping again. It fired up fine and pumped water thereafter, so I guess whatever was blocking it floated free when I lifted the motor. It ran fine the rest of the day, but I checked the tell-tale obsessively the rest of the afternoon.

Speaking of hitting things, how the hell do people drive boats sitting down? That sucks! I am used to standing and driving my mudmotor and there were a lot of low floating logs that were difficult to spot. Since I can’t just jump my mistakes anymore, I was very paranoid.

However, this motor is definitely a much better fit for the boat. Now I just need to put in the time and figure out this Maryland fishing thang. I’ll sort out all these little details along the way.

Nate


----------

