# How to get best hole shot?



## TallTom (Dec 28, 2021)

Trying to figure out how to get best hole shot in shallow water (1 1/2-2’) with jack plate and trim tabs. Seeing conflicting info on you tube. Some say jack plate all way up, trim tabs down, others suggest just the opposite. Your experiences? Thx.


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

Why?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Clamfoot said:


> Why?


Why not?


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

@Smackdaddy53 

I'm surprised at that from you. I hope you were joking.....

@ 2 days registered Tom

Why not? Uhhh, destruction of seagrass, destruction of forage breeding/hatching habitat, and destruction of shallow water fishing habitat? Yep, that is a real problem today.....
I assume he would be that shallow in order to fish as we are on this website and not some man-child, video game idiot website.

If he really needs the holeshot to make himself feel better about the life he's living and his probable E.D., save it for 5-10 ft of water, please, or better yet go offshore.

Here's the news, no one is really impressed with a holeshot or tearing across a flat at 50 mph, it mostly just pisses people off.
Maybe he should grow up and think about someone other than himself. Can't easily fix stupid but we are required to try.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

first off. you're a dick for assuming it's an ego thing. depending on where he lives many places (like Texas) have no seagrass, just mud flats. and there are hundreds of square miles with just shallow mud flat. no convenient holes to jump up in so once you get in you have to get up and out. no one is espousing tearing up grass flats. there are also lots of tunnel hull skiffs that can run quite shallow without tearing up the bottom because the prop is literally above the surface of the water operating in the plume pushed up by the tunnel. don't judge everyone by your experiences. there are lots of places that are different than where you live.


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## Fernando Perez (May 7, 2021)

Yea not every flat has grass lol he never mentioned anything about hole shot on a grass flat. On top of that a lot of skiffs can launch out of a 2ft deep flat without ever touching bottom. Jackplate height will depend on what boat you have but definitely trim tabs down


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## Clamfoot (Jun 21, 2021)

devrep said:


> first off. you're a dick for assuming it's an ego thing. depending on where he lives many places (like Texas) have no seagrass, just mud flats. and there are hundreds of square miles with just shallow mud flat. no convenient holes to jump up in so once you get in you have to get up and out. no one is espousing tearing up grass flats. there are also lots of tunnel hull skiffs that can run quite shallow without tearing up the bottom because the prop is literally above the surface of the water operating in the plume pushed up by the tunnel. don't judge everyone by your experiences. there are lots of places that are different than where you live.


You can't figure out how get a boat on plane out of the mud without a hole shot when you have a jack plate even though outboards have been around for 75 years or so before the hole shot......but I'm the dick.

Grow up. It's not about the mud or the boat. The holeshot is about some juvenile BS behavior.

If you can't get out without the hole shot then don't be there in the first place. 

Dick out.


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

Yo. We have grass in TX. Upper middle coast here.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

He asked for opinions on how to do it, not the merits. 

We can all agree on two things. 

1. Tearing up sea grass is a bad idea.
2. Burning a flat is a bad idea.

There are plenty of good reasons on why it is a good idea. I do not run a jack plate but tabs down or a single tab down and spin up is the way to go.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Clamfoot said:


> @Smackdaddy53
> 
> I'm surprised at that from you. I hope you were joking.....
> 
> ...


Who the fuck are you?


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Just Jack up all the way and slowly get out. My big fat boat can run in 1.5' jacked up. You don't need to worry about tabs


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## Breeze (Aug 7, 2016)

TallTom said:


> Trying to figure out how to get best hole shot in shallow water (1 1/2-2’) with jack plate and trim tabs. Seeing conflicting info on you tube. Some say jack plate all way up, trim tabs down, others suggest just the opposite. Your experiences? Thx.


Tunnel hull. Jackplate Trim tabs. The right prop and a heavy right hand???


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Lots of opinion and childish behavior here, but no solid info. Let's forget the environmental issues and the dick measuring and answer the OP's question.

First, it's always possible to raise the jack plate as high as possible and idle along fairly shallow at displacement speed. Of course that's not what the OP wants. He wants to get on plane quickly in shallow water. Consider that in order for a prop to develop sufficient thrust to propel a boat fast enough to plane, the prop must be at a certain depth of water to start. That depth should be the lowest setting on the jack plate. Mounting the jack plate any lower and it's a waste of lift, and any higher and the boat won't get on plane even with the jack plate fully down. What happens when a boat accelerates to get on plane is that as the boat accelerates it generates a bow wave, and to plane, it must climb that wave. To get the most lift, it's usually best to start with the trim tabs fully down and the motor tilted in to the max. Among other things these settings tend to keep the skeg off the bottom. If the water is deep enough to keep the skeg from dragging that's all the technique you'll need: however, If the water isn't deep enough there is another technique that can be employed. I call it spinning up. Once you start to accelerate you will create a bow wave. Turn onto that wave and continue around to create a wave in the opposite direction, turn again and ride that wave, when it lifts the stern go to full power and ride the wave onto a plane. This technique takes a little practice, but will get you on plane in almost no water. Hope this helps...I wrote it after a few glasses of wine, so pardon any typos or mis-statements.


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## captjsanchez (Sep 8, 2015)

What I do...without a jackplate, trim all the way down then up a hair. Tab down a little. With a jack plate it depends on how good you can grab the water at certain heights. The more you can submerge the prop the better the bite


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Vertigo said:


> Lots of opinion and childish behavior here, but no solid info. Let's forget the environmental issues and the dick measuring and answer the OP's question.


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## The Fin (Sep 28, 2021)

Wow! Civility does still exist!


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## Mako 181 (May 1, 2020)

Big Dick!

Get a paddle board
Tow it with a bike 
Eat the berries off a tree
Use spider webs for line.
Maybe you can save the planet


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## Goose (Jul 15, 2019)

Fastest way to get up and out is jack plate down, trim down, tabs down. Fastest doesn't equal best though


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Clamfoot said:


> You can't figure out how get a boat on plane out of the mud without a hole shot when you have a jack plate even though outboards have been around for 75 years or so before the hole shot......but I'm the dick.
> 
> Grow up. It's not about the mud or the boat. The holeshot is about some juvenile BS behavior.
> 
> ...


says the hole shot police.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

This is a very nuanced subject, many factors at play, not the least of which is bottom environment, proximity to little deeper cuts etc etc. 

I would recommend calling or PMing some folks that have a ton of experience in this realm. Here in Texas it’s what we do and it is necessary (no need to argue on this, it’s a fact). Again, lots of nuance. A lengthy phone call might be more efficient imo.

Plenty of Texas boys with the knowledge here to help.


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

You never know which one it'll be that goes sideways quick.


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## East Cape (Sep 3, 2015)

I’d be more tha. Happy to give you my .02 via phone…
If wanting hole shot I’d suggest the following:
Jack plate
Cav plate
Heavy cupped prop

The rest will be getting to know the vessel you run and setting it up in a typical load you would run most of the time.
If your truly skinny tabs won’t help in this situation 😉


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## TallTom (Dec 28, 2021)

Thanks for all the info and even the insults. No grass where I am on east coast of Fl, just mud, but am very aware of the issue of destroying habitat.
I am set up with a jack plate, cav plate and cupped prop. Just trying to figure out how to use all this stuff with out busting something. Appreciate the “thoughtful” reflections, just asking a question doesn’t mean intend to do it.


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

OP if you only do one thing, dump the 3-blade prop and replace with a 4-blade.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

finbully said:


> OP if you only do one thing, dump the 3-blade prop and replace with a 4-blade.


A heavily cupped three blade is many times much better than four. This three blade speed prop, four blade hole shot prop thing is a myth.


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> A heavily cupped three blade is many times much better than four. This three blade speed prop, four blade hole shot prop thing is a myth.


Not in my experience in 40 some years of TX use. Good to hear your results differ.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

finbully said:


> Not in my experience in 40 some years of TX use. Good to hear your results differ.


Bad information is bad information. Telling this guy to ditch his prop because it is a three blade is going to make him think he should start looking for a four blade prop when a three blade heavy cup will absolutely offer great hole shot and grip jacked way up. Just because you’ve done something for forty years does not make it gospel.


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## Michael T (May 18, 2020)

For me, in 1.5 feet of water, I do the following to get on plane in about a boat length. Specs are BT Strike (pocket tunnel), 60 Suzuki, Atlas Mini jack plate, Rubex C4 11.5x13p 4 blade prop.

1. Jack plate 2/3 up.
2. Motor trimmed all the way in
3. Trim tabs all the way down and then one tap up.
4. Make sure I am on sand/mud and not sitting on grass.
5. Punch it and in about 3 seconds I am up with minimal stern drop.
6. Lower jack plate an inch to reduce RPMs.

Operate as normal after that making sure to not damage grass.

Your best bet is to play around with where your jackplate is, how you trim your tabs and engine. Go out and do it 20-30 times in one day trying different things.


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

Michael T said:


> For me, in 1.5 feet of water, I do the following to get on plane in about a boat length. Specs are BT Strike (pocket tunnel), 60 Suzuki, Rubex C4 11.5x13p 4 blade prop
> 
> 1. Jackplate 2/3 up.
> 2. Motor trimmed all the way in
> ...


Good synopsis. Practice with the particular boat is an excellent point.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

A lot of good info here. In case it hasn't been said yet - for those without a tunnel or low water pickup... it doesn't take more than a few seconds to damage your motor, with the jack plate up high, and insufficient water pressure, once you're on plane.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> A heavily cupped three blade is many times much better than four. This three blade speed prop, four blade hole shot prop thing is a myth.


Smack, help me understand why. I have run both on my Waterman, and it seems that the stern-lifting four blade prop gets the skiff up much faster than the 3 blade.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

DBStoots said:


> Smack, help me understand why. I have run both on my Waterman, and it seems that the stern-lifting four blade prop gets the skiff up much faster than the 3 blade.


What three blade are you comparing it to? When I say heavy cup I mean HEAVY XXX cup. If you are not bracing yourself I’ll throw you out of the back of the boat when I hole shot. If four blades are better why not 5, 6, 7 etc etc?
Here is my custom Foreman 3 blade 14 pitch XXX Cup. There is not a shelf 3 blade with this much cup and the shallow water PowerTech props are Foreman’s design.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Vertigo said:


> Lots of opinion and childish behavior here, but no solid info. Let's forget the environmental issues and the dick measuring and answer the OP's question.
> 
> First, it's always possible to raise the jack plate as high as possible and idle along fairly shallow at displacement speed. Of course that's not what the OP wants. He wants to get on plane quickly in shallow water. Consider that in order for a prop to develop sufficient thrust to propel a boat fast enough to plane, the prop must be at a certain depth of water to start. That depth should be the lowest setting on the jack plate. Mounting the jack plate any lower and it's a waste of lift, and any higher and the boat won't get on plane even with the jack plate fully down. What happens when a boat accelerates to get on plane is that as the boat accelerates it generates a bow wave, and to plane, it must climb that wave. To get the most lift, it's usually best to start with the trim tabs fully down and the motor tilted in to the max. Among other things these settings tend to keep the skeg off the bottom. If the water is deep enough to keep the skeg from dragging that's all the technique you'll need: however, If the water isn't deep enough there is another technique that can be employed. I call it spinning up. Once you start to accelerate you will create a bow wave. Turn onto that wave and continue around to create a wave in the opposite direction, turn again and ride that wave, when it lifts the stern go to full power and ride the wave onto a plane. This technique takes a little practice, but will get you on plane in almost no water. Hope this helps...I wrote it after a few glasses of wine, so pardon any typos or mis-statements.


Perfect description


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What three blade are you comparing it to? When I say heavy cup I mean HEAVY XXX cup. If you are not bracing yourself I’ll throw you out of the back of the boat when I hole shot. If four blades are better why not 5, 6, 7 etc etc?
> Here is my custom Foreman 3 blade 14 pitch XXX Cup. There is not a shelf 3 blade with this much cup and the shallow water PowerTech props are Foreman’s design.
> View attachment 192485
> View attachment 192486


The 3 blade that I was running is a PTR3 13P; the 4 blade is a SCD4R14 . You think my Waterman 18 w/ F70 would benefit from adding cup?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

DBStoots said:


> The 3 blade that I was running is a PTR3 13P; the 4 blade is a SCD4R14 . You think my Waterman 18 w/ F70 would benefit from adding cup?


If you add cup you will have to drop pitch to offset the added drag unless you are already having to hold back because you can hit red line and still have “more”. F70s have less torque than two strokes so you don’t want to get crazy with the prop and bog the engine. A good prop guy can set you up.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

SCD has minimal cup, if any if my memory serves me. PT SWC is the ticket if they make one for that motor. I have SWC's in 3 and 4 blade and I prefer the 4 blade. the 3 gives me slightly higher speed but not much and the 4 has a much better hole shot and seems to grip a little better. they both run the correct rpm as they are different pitches.

I have no doubt that Foreman makes a better prop, just can't bring myself to spend that much money when mine are working great. got both of mine used in new condition from guys who guessed wrong.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

SWC.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

devrep said:


> SWC.
> 
> View attachment 192526


I think maybe the SWC prop's are only for Yamaha motors up to 60 HP.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

devrep said:


> SWC.
> 
> View attachment 192526


That’s a cupping looking mother. Good looking prop


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

in the 50hp range give or take yamaha/tohatsu/mercury props are the same.


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## Rich11111 (Jun 6, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> What three blade are you comparing it to? When I say heavy cup I mean HEAVY XXX cup. If you are not bracing yourself I’ll throw you out of the back of the boat when I hole shot. If four blades are better why not 5, 6, 7 etc etc?
> Here is my custom Foreman 3 blade 14 pitch XXX Cup. There is not a shelf 3 blade with this much cup and the shallow water PowerTech props are Foreman’s design.
> View attachment 192485


I thought I was getting up shallow with my Bauman prop which came with the boat. It took 2 months to get my Foreman XXX prop and now I am able to get up even shallower. I did loose 2 mph on the top end as expected.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rich11111 said:


> I thought I was getting up shallow with my Bauman prop which came with the boat. It took 2 months to get my Foreman XXX prop and now I am able to get up even shallower. I did loose 2 mph on the top end as expected.


I’m glad I could help you brother!


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## Rich11111 (Jun 6, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m glad I could help you brother!


Without the total package of prop, low water pickup and cavitation plate you aren't getting optimal shallow performance.

Oh, and jackplate!


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

The official answer is it depends on your boat, how it is set up and the bottom conditions. Here are a few generalizations I've learned over a couple decades of running skinny water boats, both tunnel and non tunnel.

Jack plate all the way up
Engine trim negative (I have played with trimmed up and then trimming down as I accelerate in stupid skinny water to mixed results. If it is that shallow, I'll just idle until I can get into slightly deeper water so I'm not needlessly hammering on my motor, prop and skeg)
Tabs slightly negative or even neutral (if you tab all the way down you can add a few inches to the draft of your boat and they will drag on the bottom when the stern squats on initial acceleration)
Turn the boat as you accelerate (this reduces the draft of the engine skeg and rolls the hull onto a flatter surface of the hull to help generate more lift)
Shift weight/crew forward
Accelerate firmly but don't hammer it which will cause the prop to lose lift and blow out. It can also suck all the water out of the tunnel and cause the hull to squat back down. As you hear the engine start to rev way up from the prop blowing out, ease back slightly on the throttle
What you can get away with over a hard sand bottom is vastly different that a mud bottom.


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

4-blade cupped on my Maverick HPX 18 w/ 115SHO:
















4-blade cupped on my Ranger Z521 w/ 250 Pro XS









Both better hole shots than same prop cupping in 3-blade configuration results from actual experience/testing and both with insignificant top end speed loss.

Bottom line is test yourself or rely on other’s advice. Those are the choices we have.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

finbully said:


> 4-blade cupped on my Maverick HPX 18 w/ 115SHO:
> View attachment 192568
> View attachment 192569
> 
> ...


Was the cup added after you bought them? Just curious because that PTR4 looks good!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

finbully said:


> 4-blade cupped on my Maverick HPX 18 w/ 115SHO:
> View attachment 192568
> View attachment 192569
> 
> ...


So just because these four blades worked best for you on your two boats you are telling this guy to “ditch the three blade and get four” and I tell him not to rule out a properly made three blade you think a four blade is best for hole shot on any hull and outboard combination? You don’t even know what hull and outboard he has unless I missed his post stating that information. 
I’m just making sure I’m understanding you. These huge absolutes are usually bad advice. I never told this guy the ONLY way to go for hole shot is a three blade prop, just not to rule it out. Some setups like four and even five blades but there are so many more variables than blade count, pitch and cup when propping a boat.
Happy New Year!


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

SkiffaDeeDooDah said:


> Was the cup added after you bought them? Just curious because that PTR4 looks good!


No. The PowerTech guys are good to work with and in my experience get you pretty close to what you are looking for the first time. I’m not a prop snob and admittedly don’t know as much as some nor do I have a prejudice towards any prop or manufacturer. I’m simply content with what works for my use and happy to share my experiences and opinions. Some seem to get heartburn if what we say does not align with their world. That’s not my problem but I do have empathy for them.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

finbully said:


> No. The PowerTech guys are good to work with and in my experience get you pretty close to what you are looking for the first time. I’m not a prop snob and admittedly don’t know as much as some nor do I have a prejudice towards any prop or manufacturer. I’m simply content with what works for my use and happy to share my experiences and opinions. Some seem to get heartburn if what we say does not align with their world. That’s not my problem but I do have empathy for them.


I guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit, no one is getting heartburn. Read again slowly.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

DBStoots said:


> I think maybe the SWC prop's are only for Yamaha motors up to 60 HP.


PowerTech makes a D-Class version of this prop for 70 – 140 HP, 4.25” Gearcase. It's the SWW series, available in 3-blade and 4-blade. Looks grippy with extra cup.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I have the SWW3 on my other skiff with the 90 hatsu. lot of cup and I can run with the Bob's plate all the way up. this skiff does have a "pocket" so that helps.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

if Jack Foreman made a 4 blade with the same design as his 3 blade and pitched to get the same rpms as his 3 blade I have no doubt it would jump up quicker and hold water better than his 3 blade and also be somewhat slower. having said that, from what I've read and heard his 3 blade works so well that a 4 blade version isn't needed.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

If 4 blade props were the answer, you would see more in Texas. Jack Foreman has forgotten more about shallow water performance than most of us will ever know. He’s used 3 blade for a reason.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

I start trim tabs down, turning slightly and idling then punch it. Motor all the way down.

And if @Clamfoot wants to take down some bad actors on boats, deal with this guy. Burned a 1 ft







deep flat at Arsnicker Keys in the Glades in the grass full speed about 30ft from my boat while poling and my wife on the bow. Not exaggerating the 30 ft.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

CKEAT said:


> If 4 blade props were the answer, you would see more in Texas. Jack Foreman has forgotten more about shallow water performance than most of us will ever know. He’s used 3 blade for a reason.


I've tried and tested many props, in 3-blade and 4-blade. IMO, the 4-blade prop is popular but overrated these days. It is heavier and harder for the motor to spin, so it requires reduced pitch. For me personally, a ported 3-blade with extra cup added, offers these advantages:
The ability to run 2" more pitch in the same RPM range as the 4-blade is common
Faster speeds
Better fuel economy
More bow lift


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Drifter said:


> I start trim tabs down, turning slightly and idling then punch it. Motor all the way down.
> 
> And if @Clamfoot wants to take down some bad actors on boats, deal with this guy. Burned a 1 ft
> View attachment 192601
> deep flat at Arsnicker Keys in the Glades in the grass full speed about 30ft from my boat while poling and my wife on the bow. Not exaggerating the 30 ft.


I hate the idea of public shaming but it seems it is long overdue to call out this type of behavior. I do not even keep my phone in my pocket but it would have been handy for these situations.

I had two boats on Wednesday pull a pretty crappy move here in lower Tampa Bay.

These were both in the Palmetto/Anna Maria area.
1. First one was a odd looking black aluminum tower boat. Burned the entire flat inside of the bar.
2. Carolina Skiff powered into a creek that I had poled into. He saw I was in there and turned around. He decided to jump up in the creek and run out. Again burned the whole flat.


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## Drifter (Dec 13, 2018)

Jason M said:


> I hate the idea of public shaming but it seems it is long overdue to call out this type of behavior. I do not even keep my phone in my pocket but it would have been handy for these situations.
> 
> I had two boats on Wednesday pull a pretty crappy move here in lower Tampa Bay.
> 
> ...


I have no problem with public shaming. The Everglades are beautiful and need to be kept that way or we will lose our resource and eventually the ability to run shallow water boats.

I followed this guy to his spot and basically told him I filmed the whole thing on a go pro and he could either fess up to his client what just happened there or I was going to get on the phone and have a ranger come out. He ran over about a half mile or more of 1 ft deep flats just chock full of sea turtles. If you look at Arsnicker on a chart you will see what I mean. Not to mention my wife and I had been parked on that flat for 2 hours waiting for some fish we knew were comin.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

Drifter said:


> I have no problem with public shaming. The Everglades are beautiful and need to be kept that way or we will lose our resource and eventually the ability to run shallow water boats.
> 
> I followed this guy to his spot and basically told him I filmed the whole thing on a go pro and he could either fess up to his client what just happened there or I was going to get on the phone and have a ranger come out. He ran over about a half mile or more of 1 ft deep flats just chock full of sea turtles. If you look at Arsnicker on a chart you will see what I mean. Not to mention my wife and I had been parked on that flat for 2 hours waiting for some fish we knew were comin.
> [/QUOTE
> ...


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Tabs down, wheel hard to one side or other “I prefer port”, Jack plate centered, trim down, and hammer down! Once I get her straightened out I am on the trim and Jack plate buttons dialing her in.
As far as props go… I am a 4 blade guy but, not because they are somehow better or the end all. Because they are easily and readily available around here and get the job done. If I could get a Foreman prop in 24hrs then a cupped 3 blade it would be! A 3 blade prop is more efficient in every way than a 4 blade says “pretty much everything ever written about propellors”.

The most important thing is to know your boat and her characteristics and limitations! I can pop a boat up and on plane in a foot of water that her owner’s say takes two feet but that comes with a lifetime of running shallow waters too!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

CKEAT said:


> If 4 blade props were the answer, you would see more in Texas. Jack Foreman has forgotten more about shallow water performance than most of us will ever know. He’s used 3 blade for a reason.


Some of the PowerTech props these guys are discussing are Jack’s design.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

I had a power tech 4 blade holeshot prop on my HB pro when I bought it but the 3 blade foreman was head and shoulders better for holeshot.


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

CKEAT said:


> I had a power tech 4 blade holeshot prop on my HB pro when I bought it but the 3 blade foreman was head and shoulders better for holeshot.


Smack needs to start spending a lot of time with Jack and become an apprentice! When Jack is gone, we need someone that appreciates a good prop to carry on the legacy!😉


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

JC Designs said:


> Smack needs to start spending a lot of time with Jack and become an apprentice! When Jack is gone, we need someone that appreciates a good prop to carry on the legacy!😉


I know it but I don’t think Jack cares to do that. He is a persnickety old fart 🤣 Not much time left, last few dealings I had show a bit of absent mindedness.


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## SkiffaDeeDooDah (Jan 20, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Here is my custom Foreman 3 blade 14 pitch XXX Cup. There is not a shelf 3 blade with this much cup and the shallow water PowerTech props are Foreman’s design.


If my skiff runs best with a stock 13.5 x 20p 3-blade, what pitch would I drop down to, in order to run your XXX Cup prop at the same RPM?


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## gbc11 (Oct 4, 2018)

Mack has a point, the old way of thinking 3 vs 4 still holds true some of the time put props have changed so much that its a different world. Today's skiffs with lower HP 4 stroke motors are lacking the bottom end torgue of the 2 strokes that could spin up a 4 blade faster. You're playing a game of the most bite on the water you can get with the least amount of drag. So yes, a 4 bladed prop will have less slip then a 3 blade, but that 4 blade also has a lot more drag that can do more harm then good on a light skiff. To Macks point the cupped 3 blade has less blade drag and is still a aggressive raked prop that the motor can spin up faster. A faster spinning cupped 3 blade prop with a low slip ratio on a light weight skiff can out perform a 4 blade. The faster spinning 3 blade can move more water compared to the extra drag of the 4 blade moving slower.

And to say a Fury 4 witch was engineered and designed for heavy bass boats like the cow a ranger 521 is ( no offense ranger used to build a good boat) out of the hull and give them stern lift. Means 4 blade props always have a better hole shot and are slower on topend is a a bad example. I run a 30-32p bravo1xs on my 300r bullet because I want as much blade as I can get in the water when I'm floating around the 100 mph mark. That four blade is a little sluggish out of the hole because its so tall. Or even my Shearwater x22 hybrid with a 250sho that I run a 24p bravo1xs and it out performed everything on that hull because it has nature hull lift and likes a higher Prop to pad ratio. Better hole shot, mid range punch and topend. Now take a 25p Bravo1xs and put it on your ranger and you will be thinking man this 4 blade sucks and my boat just likes the 3 or 4 blade fury that was enginneered to run better in that 5 to 3 in below pad range a ranger run well in. Because the bravo likes to have a higher prop shaft to pad ratio in the 3 to 2in below pad my shearwater likes and the 1.5in to above pad where my bullet wants to run at on top end. My point to this is propping a hull is a math equation, not the number of blades a prop has will do xyz. You pick the prop that was engineered to do what you are wanting it to do, on a hull that has what the prop needs to perform correctly on.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Some of the PowerTech props these guys are discussing are Jack’s design.


Jack's design without the cup he puts in.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

I have a 60 CT JP, etc. on and have both a 4 blade PT and a Foreman 3 blade cupped. Foreman crushes it in speed, running higher on the JP, holeshot, and running at slow speeds on plane. 

On my custom tunnel I started with a 4 blade heavily cupped by Jack and we tried the PT 3 blade heavily cupped by jack. On this one the PT 4 blade holds water better, runs higher and has more grip than the 3. 

What does this tell me? 1. Different boat/engines require different set ups. 2. Jack knows what to do to prop a shallow water skiff way better than I do. 3. Blade count cant be relied on in a blanket statement.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

K3anderson said:


> I have a 60 CT JP, etc. on and have both a 4 blade PT and a Foreman 3 blade cupped. Foreman crushes it in speed, running higher on the JP, holeshot, and running at slow speeds on plane.
> 
> On my custom tunnel I started with a 4 blade heavily cupped by Jack and we tried the PT 3 blade heavily cupped by jack. On this one the PT 4 blade holds water better, runs higher and has more grip than the 3.
> 
> What does this tell me? 1. Different boat/engines require different set ups. 2. Jack knows what to do to prop a shallow water skiff way better than I do. 3. Blade count cant be relied on in a blanket statement.


what model 4 blade PT prop are you comparing to that was not as good as Jack's 3 blade?


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## Redfish727 (Mar 22, 2016)

TallTom said:


> Trying to figure out how to get best hole shot in shallow water (1 1/2-2’) with jack plate and trim tabs. Seeing conflicting info on you tube. Some say jack plate all way up, trim tabs down, others suggest just the opposite. Your experiences? Thx.


Try jack plate all the way up with negative trim… a little bit of bow down on the tabs and cut the motor hard right…. Nail it and jack down until she grabs.

@Clamfoot you can easily get up in a foot to foot and half of water without tearing anything up. I mean that is one of the reasons for owning a micro skiff. I do appreciate you’re concerns for our Beautiful waterways and sea grass. Everyone is there own conservationist, Maybe educate instead of assuming and diving of the deep end. Cheer up buttercup!


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## txredfly (Sep 10, 2015)

jay.bush1434 said:


> The official answer is it depends on your boat, how it is set up and the bottom conditions. Here are a few generalizations I've learned over a couple decades of running skinny water boats, both tunnel and non tunnel.
> 
> Jack plate all the way up
> Engine trim negative (I have played with trimmed up and then trimming down as I accelerate in stupid skinny water to mixed results. If it is that shallow, I'll just idle until I can get into slightly deeper water so I'm not needlessly hammering on my motor, prop and skeg)
> ...


THIS.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

It’s not good to churn up any habitat but most of the damage I witness is folks running too shallow thinking their boat is doing it well while they are chopping bottom the whole way. This is we’re the tunnel and low water pick up along with plenty of cup really shine.

Point is, minimize hole shot impact and rigg it where you can run without chopping everything in your path. IMO


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

Just re-read the OP's post. I'm not a hole shotter in 1 - 1.5 feet of water. I'll wait until I get to deeper water before going for it. I do a lot of idiling and polling in very shallow water. What's the hurry?


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

finbully said:


> Just re-read the OP's post. I'm not a hole shotter in 1 - 1.5 feet of water. I'll wait until I get to deeper water before going for it. I do a lot of idiling and polling in very shallow water. What's the hurry?


Well, if you are in the grass you are doing more damage by Idling than popping up and going.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I just love hole shot and draft threads, they just bring out the best in everyone.


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

JC Designs said:


> Well, if you are in the grass you are doing more damage by Idling than popping up and going.


Yea re-read my post the part about polling...


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I just love hole shot and draft threads, they just bring out the best in everyone.


How much do air boats draft? 🤣


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

finbully said:


> How much do air boats draft? 🤣


Too much


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

devrep said:


> what model 4 blade PT prop are you comparing to that was not as good as Jack's 3 blade?


I'll grab a pic. I feel like it is a sct4?


devrep said:


> what model 4 blade PT prop are you comparing to that was not as good as Jack's 3 blade?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I’m headed to Florida soon, going to burn some grass flats, prop scar some fatty manatees and make friends with some Chadbro jetskiiers, wind surfers and kite surfers...hell I might go run over some mangroves with Flip in his airboat.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m headed to Florida soon, going to burn some grass flats, prop scar some fatty manatees and make friends with some Chadbro jetskiiers, wind surfers and kite surfers...hell I might go run over some mangroves with Flip in his airboat.


You're always welcome here in the bay. Leave your big belt buckle and Cowboy hat at home.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

K3anderson said:


> You're always welcome here in the bay. Leave your big belt buckle and Cowboy hat at home.


Yeehaw


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## mt hwy (Mar 18, 2021)

I was hoping this thread would eventually produce some good information which I could ponder and consider ... and after wading through some stuff - it did! I'll get to practice in a week - cowboy hat will be left at home, sombrero will be deployed. Thank you


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## JC Designs (Apr 5, 2020)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> I’m headed to Florida soon, going to burn some grass flats, prop scar some fatty manatees and make friends with some Chadbro jetskiiers, wind surfers and kite surfers...hell I might go run over some mangroves with Flip in his airboat.


We got them island boyz now too bro!


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

K3anderson said:


> I'll grab a pic. I feel like it is a sct4?
> 
> View attachment 192825


no idea what that is.


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