# New Skiff Design



## Boatdesigner

I have been lurking on the site off and on for a while and thought my new design, the Osprey 18, might be of interest. Here are the particulars:

Length: 17'-7"
Beam: 66"
Draft: 6" to keel at full displacement
Displacement: 1300 pounds
Fuel: 12 gals.










She is designed for cold-molded wood construction, although you should probably be an accomplished woodworker or have built boats before as she could be tricky to build. Her plans cost $85 with patterns on a CD. If you want the full-size patterns printed, then it brings the price up to $145.










Visit my website for more information!

Timm Smith
Smith Marine Design
PO Box 399
Crystal River, FL 34423
352-465-3123

http://www.smithmarinedesign.com

My email address is on the Contact page of the website, feel free to contact me if you have any questions!


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## anytide

welcome aboard!!-capt. and coke please
      nice designs!!-wood is good                     -anytide


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## james_bingham3

welcome,good looking boat


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## jimbarn1961

Any finished boats out there yet? HINT, HIN?T, pics would be cool  what is HP rating? speed etc. 
Welcome aboard, Capt. and Coke please


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## Gramps

> Any finished boats out there yet?  HINT, HIN?T, pics would be cool   what is HP rating? speed etc.
> Welcome aboard, Capt. and Coke please


32knots 
40hp 4stroke tiller 


Is the construction stitch and glue or strip? The referenced 7oz cloth, biax or woven? It seems like a combination of both...


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## Brett

Gramps...stop looking at the pretty pictures! 
I mean, yeah, it's great boat porn,
but there's text between them there pictures!



> Due to the curving shape of the Osprey 18 Flats Skiff, it can't be planked with sheets of plywood. Her planking will consist of two layers of Meranti marine plywood that will be cut into strips (as large as possible) and epoxied on the diagonal to the stringers and frames. Up forward therse strips will likely be pretty narrow, back aft and on much of the bottom, much larger sheets may be able to be used. The bottom stringers will be 3/4" x 1 1/2" Douglas Fir or Honduras Mahogany on 6 3/4" centers. Her frames are 24" apart and vary in size depending on location. The transom will be 2 layers of 18mm Meranti marine plywood, epoxied together. The entire hull and deck will be covered in a 7oz. layer of fiberglass cloth set in epoxy and then painted.
> 
> While her construction is pretty straightforward, it is somewhat complex and will require some skill to do properly. I don't think this would be a good first project unless you are a very experienced woodworker. The plan package includes the following drawings:


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## Gramps

You just drove home my point Brett:



> will consist of two layers of Meranti marine plywood that will be cut into strips (as large as possible)


 Is 2" as large as possible or 3.5'?



> entire hull and deck will be covered in a 7oz. layer of fiberglass cloth set in epoxy


  It's a 7oz cloth, is it biax or woven?  ;D

I read the pretty words and I'm very intrigued!


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## Brett

Strip is a longitudinal construction technique.


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## Brett

Cold molding runs panels diagonally across the stringers.


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## wcnfl

What would you estimate the materials to cost on this project?


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## Gramps

Ah that makes sense now and looks easier! Thanks Brett!


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## jimbarn1961

Gramps,

Where did I miss the speed? I feel stupid or are you just that smart


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## Brett

http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/osprey18.html

Ya'll gotta stop eyeballin' the pics and read more! ;D


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## jimbarn1961

I know, I know, My name is Jim I am a Boat Pornaholic ;D

That is one sexy looking boat though


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## Boatdesigner

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't replied to your questions sooner. I have been busy the last couple of days responding to inquiries about this design! This design has not been built yet. It was a custom design for a client and since he has not paid his bill, he doesn't have permission to build the boat. In taking the commission, I gave him a super deal with the hope that I could sell some stock plans later to make up for my initial losses. As it stands I have made less than $3 an hour for my time. Who says being a boat designer isn't a profitable career! ;D

I haven't estimated the costs to build the boat yet, but I do know how much material is actually in the hull from my weight study. It will take me some time to add up the various parts and then try to guesstimate the number of sheets of plywood it will take to build it. This is a bit tricky as one builder may be better at utilizing his materials than another. Once I get some time I'll try to put together an estimate.

Regarding the strip sizes, on much of the bottom and the topsides back aft, they can be as wide as the plywood. As you move forward and the hull develops more flare, they will have to get progressively narrower. In the topsides all the way forward, they may be only a few inches wide. It is hard to see in the images I have put up on the web, but this boat has quite a bit of flare up forward. I should take a little time and add another image showing that to my website. You can see it in the machinery arrangement study plan.

I am actually glad I put the boat up here. In looking at the weight study spreadsheat to estimate the materials a little, I noticed I had added the weight of the transom and hull bottom in twice. Her actual weight is really 1150 pounds, not 1300. Bare hull weight is about 400 pounds. At that weight she draws a half inch less water.

Now I have a question! I think it would be easier to build this boat out of foam cored fiberglass. Many people prefer working with wood, but with all the glass and epoxy in a cold molded boat, you're still working with a lot of goop. So if you were to consider building a boat like this for yourself, would you prefer an all glass boat or a cold molded boat? Please note I am not talking about a production boat, but a one-off garage/backyard build. Thanks for all the comments! Your thoughts will help me refine this design and possibly some others, like a smaller version at around 16'.


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## Brett

If I was serious about building this design, I think it would be all fiberglass.
I'd set up the framing and run the stringers, then staple wire mesh to the stringers.
Gypsum plaster and a trowel to skim coat the mesh, then after the gypsum dried
get out the long board and sand fair. When complete it would be a one-off mold.
After studying the Cadd images, working those complex curves in wood,
would be too time consuming, and the fairing afterwards even more  work.
I'd rather do my sanding on the gypsum plaster, before glassing,
as sandpaper cuts gypsum plaster with little effort.
Trying to fair the epoxy/plywood cold molding would be hard work.


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## Gramps

Thanks for the response BD. I am always interested in boat designs and would agree right here and now to buy the first 16' skiff plans.  For me 16' is a key length due to storage issues.  On another designers site he is not so nice when you ask for a redesign of an existing 18' boat to 16'. Ok I'm rambling.

For the construction I would not be interested in foam core, it is not worth it to me.  Wood is easy, cheaper, and provides a solid structure without fiberglass/epoxy.

Oh and a WAG on the materials price; including all sundries and consumables (sand paper, hand tools, dunnage, saw blades, etc.) it would be $3,500-4,000.


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## wcnfl

Brett what size wire mesh? 

Have you ever built a hull mold from the wire mesh method ?


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## Brett

I used #3 hardware cloth (wire mesh) to build a mold off of a 14 foot lapstrake dory.
The dory had been left in the rear of Nuta's Boatyard (now Jones Hurricane Cove)
and was buried in trash and debris when we found it. The brass plate
on the transom Identified it as a product of the Rasmussen Yachtwerks.
After getting permission from the yard boss we cleared the hull and slid it on a trailer.
After cleaning it off what we had was an oak framed and lapstrake planked, wine glass transomed rowing dory.
Flipped it over and rebraced the hull to as true as we could get it, then stapled wire mesh all over the hull.
8 bags of gypsum plaster later we had coated the hull and filled all the laps to a rounded hull shape.
A weeks worth of sanding and we had a faired hull. Sprayed it with tooling gelcoat
and after much more sanding and polishing built a mold.
I got the first hull out of the mold and turned it into a sailboat.


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## Boatdesigner

Gramps, I was guessing the same thing, but didn't want to go out on a limb! 

Brett, it sounds like you wouldn't want a cored hull. With a cored hull you would cover the framework with foam core and then glass and fair it. Then you can flip it over and glass the inside. There used to be a way to build solid hulls using a Formica female mold, but I imagine trying to put the Formica down on the inside of the framing would be a nightmare! It would give you a smooth gel surface on the outside though.


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## Brett

At 87 bucks for 3/8" X 42.8" X 48" sheet of Divinycell coring that'd get expensive real fast.
I'd rather a solid fiberglass hull and a self bailing deck the length of the hull.
On the other hand, cedar strip would look awful purdy!


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## Boatdesigner

I prefer Core-Cell foam. Jamestown Distributors sells 1/2" x 48" x 96" sheets for $269.63. 3/8" x 48" x 96" is $181.35. The Osprey 18 has about 115 sq. ft. of hull surface, so you may be able to get away with 4-5 sheets. 6mm Meranti is about $50 a sheet, but you use two layers, so it costs about $100 for the same area. Big cost difference!

Edit: Oops! The 18 uses two layers of 4mm at less than $40 a sheet. Got confused with the 18' CC I am doing now which uses two layers of 6mm. That makes it even more affordable.


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## Brett

Looking at the stringer system needed to accomplish the cold molding,
with frames on 24 inch centers, I think she'd be an easier build using strip planking.
Fairing the planks could be done with a block plane and random orbit sander
then 2 layers of 7 oz tooling cloth in epoxy to finish her off.


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## Boatdesigner

Good point Brett. I actually considered it, but the client and I decided on the cold-molding. The frames could be further apart but then the stringers would have to be larger. I was trying to keep the stringers small enough that they could be easily bent into place, as well as readily available. There are so many ways to build a boat, none of them wrong, just different. 

The 18' CC I am designing now will be framed like a fiberglass boat, with plywood stringers and frames forming an egg crate section. The parts will be cut on a CNC router and then glued together with epoxy. Once the boat is planked and flipped, the framing will all be tabbed into place. I may modify the Osprey 18 for that method at some point, we'll see how it works out. The advantage of this method is that you can purchase a framing kit with everything precut.


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## wcnfl

Would the Osprey 18 easier to build cold mold? (one off wood or composite / fiberglass) or is the hull design to complex? and should be built from a plug then a fiberglass mold?


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## oysterbreath

> ...
> On the other hand, cedar strip would look awful purdy!


Mmmmmmmm, Cedar strip! I've been looking long and hard into Cedar strip building. Bead and cove baby! Well, on the other hand if ya' going to coat the inside and out with paint...then I would forgo the bead and cove.

Anyway, this is a pretty nice design though. Too big buck for lil ol me though.


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## Boatdesigner

> Would the Osprey 18 easier to build cold mold? (one off wood or composite / fiberglass) or is the hull design to complex? and should be built from a plug then a fiberglass mold?


It is a cold-molded boat, although it is the modern version using strips of plywood and not 1/8" veneers. It could also be built with veneers, just as long as the wood had similar weight and strength characteristics to the Meranti ply specified. At this point there are no plans for fiberglass construction.


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## oysterbreath

> I prefer Core-Cell foam. Jamestown Distributors sells 1/2" x 48" x 96" sheets for $269.63. 3/8" x 48" x 96" is $181.35. The Osprey 18 has about 115 sq. ft. of hull surface, so you may be able to get away with 4-5 sheets. 6mm Meranti is about $50 a sheet, but you use two layers, so it costs about $100 for the same area. Big cost difference!
> 
> Edit: Oops! The 18 uses two layers of 4mm at less than $40 a sheet. Got confused with the 18' CC I am doing now which uses two layers of 6mm. That makes it even more affordable.


So if some one were to build this from Core cell what would be the exact breakdown of the Core cell used in the hull alone. Would any on the 1/2 be used in the hull or just the 3/8? I've seen a few builders use core-cell for the hull and a mix of nidacore and ply for the deck and non structual sole. What is your thought on this. I think your design is VERY nice.But like Gramps I'm better off with a sub 16'-0" skiff. Besides cold-molding seems a bit difficult for this novice. However, I would like to THANK YOU for making a design like this available to the amature boat building crowd. I think that will sure other designers to reconize poling skiffs as a viable building market and keep things fresh and competitive. I'll be looking deeper into your design for sure!


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## oysterbreath

> The 18' CC I am designing now will be framed like a fiberglass boat, with plywood stringers and frames forming an egg crate section. The parts will be cut on a CNC router and then glued together with epoxy. Once the boat is planked and flipped, the framing will all be tabbed into place. I may modify the Osprey 18 for that method at some point, we'll see how it works out. The advantage of this method is that you can purchase a framing kit with everything precut.


Which method is more novice friendly in your opinion?
What's the cost difference?


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## Boatdesigner

Oyster,

You would probably need to use 1/2", but not for structural reasons. In order to span between the battens of your building jig without bending, the foam has to be thick enough to not bend when you are laminating over it. The 3/8" would be too thin unless you had a solid planked plug/form to build over. If you were building in a female mold, like a production boat, 3/8" may be fine (I'd have to do some math before I was sure).

Mixing other materials in for the deck would be fine. I don't know if Nida-Core is all that inexpensive, but it could be used. You could also use balsa cored plywood panels or balsa cored fiberglass panels. Plywood with a layer of glass over would be the least expensive.

Cold-molding is a bit harder than regular plywood boat building. This boat was designed around the needs of a single client, with the hope that his ideas would be popular with some others as well. If he had asked me to design it as a plywood boat, that's what it would have been! Could be that a ply version without all the flare might be a design for the future.

I am considering a smaller version of this one, but it will have to wait for the other 3 boats in line to get finished. I don't have much free time right now, even though business is slow. I coach U-14 soccer and that ties up my evenings a couple nights a week as well as my Saturdays. Then the honey-do list, family stuff, holidays . . . and a 20 mile bike ride every day the weather is nice (that's what keeps me mostly sane!).


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## Boatdesigner

> The 18' CC I am designing now will be framed like a fiberglass boat, with plywood stringers and frames forming an egg crate section. The parts will be cut on a CNC router and then glued together with epoxy. Once the boat is planked and flipped, the framing will all be tabbed into place. I may modify the Osprey 18 for that method at some point, we'll see how it works out. The advantage of this method is that you can purchase a framing kit with everything precut.
> 
> 
> 
> Which method is more novice friendly in your opinion?
> What's the cost difference?
Click to expand...

The pre-cut frames will definitely be more novice friendly. Basically you will get a big stack of pre-cut and numbered pieces that fit together like a big 3D puzzle. That will include all the frames, stringers and transom, no lofting or patterns to make. I am going to try and include every part that can be pre-cut from a flat sheet as possible. The keel/stem, the chine logs, sheer clamp and the side stringers are all solid wood, so they will have to be cut and fitted. But the frames will have notches for them, basically "put chine log here!". As for cost, I am not sure as I am still laying out the parts and haven't gotten quotes yet. 

The real benefit is speed, you could probably set up an entire 18' frame kit in a couple days and be planking in less than a week depending on how much free time you had to work. Rather than sell the pre-cut kits, I can also sell just the CAD files so you could have a local cabinet shop cut the pieces, thus saving on the shipping. Many larger cabinet shops have these CNC machines now and may be willing to cut parts if they aren't too busy.


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## oysterbreath

> The pre-cut frames will definitely be more novice friendly. Basically you will get a big stack of pre-cut and numbered pieces that fit together like a big 3D puzzle.


That sounds pretty sweet but possibly very expensive given the shear amount of frame work need for cold molding (I've been reading up on it). Please report back with that cost info once you work it out. I would really like to hear more.



> CNC machines now and may be willing to cut parts if they aren't too busy.


 Here in Orlando Woodcraft has a CNC that is capable of doing that. very cool!

As I look more and more into it I think you have one of only two cold molded flats boats out there. Would it be difficult or even recomended to add sponsons to this design? Do you have any pictures of the boat your original client is working on?


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## Boatdesigner

> The pre-cut frames will definitely be more novice friendly. Basically you will get a big stack of pre-cut and numbered pieces that fit together like a big 3D puzzle.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds pretty sweet but possibly very expensive given the shear amount of frame work need for cold molding (I've been reading up on it). Please report back with that cost info once you work it out. I would really like to hear more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CNC machines now and may be willing to cut parts if they aren't too busy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here in Orlando Woodcraft has a CNC that is capable of doing that. very cool!
> 
> As I look more and more into it I think you have one of only two cold molded flats boats out there. Would it be difficult or even recomended to add sponsons to this design? Do you have any pictures of the boat your original client is working on?
Click to expand...

The first boat I'll get numbers for is an 18' CC. I don't know when I or if I'll get around to doing the Osprey 18.

As for sponsons, I am not a fan of adding them mainly because they make the construction much more complex. If you shortened up the center of the boat, you would be taking planing area away from the back of the boat, right where you want it. The boat is pretty narrow as it is, so that worries me a bit.

As for the first boat, he better not be building it as he hasn't paid the bill and doesn't have my permission. No one else has come forward to build one yet, but it is still early days!


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## Boatdesigner

I just added an optional side console to the Osprey 18. You can see it in the PDF section toward the bottom of the page.

http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/osprey18.html

The drawing and patterns will be included in the standard plan package.


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## Boatdesigner

Hi everyone! I wanted to let you know that the Osprey 18 is now available with a CNC cut frame kit. The design has been modified to allow for the frames to be cut from Meranti marine plywood. The frames, transom and a precut strongback/building jig are included in the kit. Price for the kit is $1150 plus tax and shipping.

I started to work on a baitwell option for it, but have been delayed by some health issues that have slowed my designing down a bit. Hopefully I'll get back to it soon, although I still like the idea of keeping it simple and just using a bait bucket! :-/


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## floridanative1028

Have you or anyone else built one yet? I am interested in the plans but I would like to see one on the water first.


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## oysterbreath

LOL, I was just on your site last night and noticed the kits too. VERY NICE! I closed on a house Friday and can happily say that an 18 foot skiff is back on the menu. I have plenty of space!  
So with this kit, how much extra plywood is needed to build the hull and the deck as it shows on your site? We had talked about a 3D PDF at one point of time? Did you ever figure that out or have you generated any new hull renderings? The Osprey is a really sweet hull. I'm still all twisted up with the build vs buy dilemma but this hull is up there high on the list. I was scouring the net looking up cold mold fabrication info for month!

P.S.
Sorry to hear that you are having some health issues. I hope whatever they are that you are recovering well!


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## oysterbreath

> Have you or anyone else built one yet?  I am interested in the plans but I would like to see one on the water first.


That's always the case with new designs. I kinda feel the same. I always want to see a plethora of images and drawings before pulling the trigger. Some of these designers might only offer ONE tiny picture of their design but expect you to fork up $200. lol
Timm's got some good info available. I have printed his PDFs no less than 6 time and have sketched all over them! Me-being-me...you can't offer me TOO much info. I want info overload! lol
Hit me tube sock!


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## floridanative1028

If its anything like the Orion 27 it should be pretty damn legit.  I saw one posted on here a little while ago and I had no idea it was one of his designs until I started poking around his site a little.  You can see it almost at the bottom of the page here.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1277815742/0

The only thing I wonder about is if this boat is a little too small for cold molding because of weight issues.


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## Brett

4 millimeter meranti would make cold molding this hull shape relatively easy.
Finished hull thickness with two plys would be roughly 3/8 inch thick,

for those of you metrically challenged


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## oysterbreath

> If its anything like the Orion 27 it should be pretty damn legit.  I saw one posted on here a little while ago and I had no idea it was one of his designs until I started poking around his site a little.  You can see it almost at the bottom of the page here.
> 
> http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1277815742/0
> 
> The only thing I wonder about is if this boat is a little too small for cold molding because of weight issues.


I don't think it's size would be too much of an issue. I've seen some cold molded canoes, moth class sailing vessels and 12' Prams. I think each of those would be much more weight sensitive than an 18 foot flats skiff. I think the biggest issue with this skiff is it's deadrise (6 degrees). It's a wee little bit more than most microskiffers prefer IMHO. I used to desire a skiff like this at 16 foot before I got the house. Brett once wrote, "get the biggest skiff you can fit in your garage" So I think I can once again look at longer boats.


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## Boatdesigner

Sorry not to reply sooner. I have pretty serious nerve damage in both my arms, Carpal Tunnel. I also have bad discs in my back that are making my right foot go numb at times. Trying to figure out what is going on, the Neurologist ran a bunch of blood tests and now they are sending me to a hemotologist/oncologist as they are concerned about the protein levels in my blood. Needless to say, when you start reading about cancer and leukemia, it can get pretty scary! Hopefully I'll find out more this week.

As for the skiff, no one has built one yet. I did sell a set of plans to a forum member, but I don't think he has gotten started on building yet. There is about 115 sq. ft. of planking in the hull, and you need two layers. 230 sq. ft./32 sq. ft. sheet = 7.2 sheets. My guess is you might need about 9-10 sheets of 4mm, although your mileage may vary depending on how efficient you are at laying out the planking. You will also need about 100 sq. ft. of 12mm for the deck and sole, maybe 4 sheets?. The stringers, chine logs and clamps are all solid wood, such as Douglas Fir. The trick there is finding high quality lumber as you don't need all that much of it.

The weight given for the boat is the calculated weight from my weight study. I am pretty conservative on my scantlings, so this boat could probably be built lighter. I don't like to take chances when someone could get hurt. I bet you could build a real nice version in foam cored fiberglass, but it would likely cost a bit more due to the foam costs. I do think it would be easier to do though. I haven't created any new images as I have been pretty busy in the limited time I can actually work without pain.

Lastly, I didn't design the hull for the Orion, just the structure and the machinery arrangement. I believe the hull was either designed by Ray Hunt or Charlie Jannace as it is a modified Blackfin. 

I checked the little box so I'd get notified of replies, but didn't get any emails. I must have somethin' screwed up! :-/


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## oysterbreath

OK, because I sometimes get over zealous and "read things into" what ever I'm reading let me get this straight.

The frame kit:
This includes a strong back, the transom, and frames? When you wrote "frames" does this actually mean stringers, chinlogs, and clamps? The parts in this kit, are they CNC'ed and left in the plywood sheet with little "knock-out" tabs holding them in place?


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## Boatdesigner

The solid wood parts are not included, only the plywood parts. The stringers, chine logs, clamps are all solid wood, although none are very large. The parts will be left in the ply sheets with little tabs to hold them in place. The strongback is made from particle board and slots together and has slots for the frames to fit into and line everything up. You will still have to check and make sure it is all square, but it should go pretty quickly. The stem and harpin will need to be cut from the full size patterns included with the plans. 

I can also add the cockpit sole and the deck to the kit at a later date, but I was afraid the kit was getting too expensive. They will be cut in Maryland by Chesapeake Light Craft, who are probably the biggest kit boat company in the country. They have lots of experience with this type of thing. If I had the time, money and two functioning hands that weren't sore and numb all the time, I'd build one for myself. Luckily the trackball is helping me get some work done and I was able to work today on the 26' Carolina Style boat I need to finish next. It will also be offered in kit form, just a lot bigger!


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## oysterbreath

> I can also add the cockpit sole and the deck to the kit


IMHO, those two items are the items most often altered by fishing boat builders. I might be a waist of effort to include those. Me, I would probably increase the length of the front deck anyway. Decks and soles are easy. The hull is the hard part. The addition of things that makes the hull easier to build should be the point of the kit IMHO.

I've been looking over the hull even more lately. Those curves are gonna look real good at the bow.

This design fits nicely between the ECC Caiman and the new Ankona SUV17.

I think if you were to ever design something "FS18 flatstalker sized" you would blow it away!

Anyway, thanks for keeping up with providing us with info.

Have you ever thought about teaming up with a manufacture to design a microskiff them?


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## Guest

Is it just me or maybe one could sell more plans if you made one of skiffs yourself as you are the designer.

When someone wants to buy a skiff, most on the forum would suggest water testing each one before buying.

Sorry about your health problems, but "on Paper" that skiff looks very, very nice.


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## oysterbreath

> Is it just me or maybe one could sell more plans if you made one of skiffs yourself as you are the designer.
> 
> When someone wants to buy a skiff, most on the forum would suggest water testing each one before buying.
> 
> Sorry about your health problems, but "on Paper" that skiff looks very, very nice.


There is another designer I know, whenever he comes up with something new he'll cut a deal with a builder. As I recall, his deal was:
If you build it with-in a certain time frame to a certain level of finish, take a ton of pictures, post them and write a review he'll sell you the parts and pieces at cost.


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## Boatdesigner

I agree that building one would make it much easier to sell the plans. I'd love to build the first one, unfortunately selling plans as cheaply as I do does not allow money for the first boat. The Osprey was designed for a client in Louisiana. Our deal was that I would design the boat for $500, which was about 10% of what the actual cost should have been. He paid me half the amount we agreed upon and I am still waiting for the rest. So, I made about $2.50 an hour on the design, not including the kit or the side console design.

The first person to buy a kit will get it at my cost, I made this offer to the first person to buy plans, but he hasn't bought the kit yet. If he wants to now, I'll still honor that offer. The 18 CC I just added to the site was designed with the same sort of deal, he got a reduced price and will get the first kit at cost. 

As for a production builder, if any of you know one who is honest, I will gladly give them a great deal on a new design in exchange for royalty payments on future hulls. The problem is though, many builders are lacking in the honesty department and then you have to chase them down for the royalties. The other dodge is they change one or two things on the design and then claim it isn't your design and refuse to pay you. Most designers barely make enough to put food on the table, we can't afford lawyers. The last two years I have made no profit at all, and it doesn't look too good this year either! 

Oyster, that was my thoughts as well on the deck. I figured that was a relatively easy part to cut yourself so it would be a good place to save a little money. It isn't just the cost of the parts, you also have to consider shipping costs.


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## oysterbreath

Sweet deal. Man I need to hurry up and get this house together (her dream) so I can get started on my dream (boat)!  

Another thought. While looking at another cold-mold design I noticed that they used planks that all seemed to be the same width. I thought about it for a while and cam to the conclusion that precutting planks all to the same with might be a good way to manage time and construction effort. I could pre-cut and stack them to the side, plank and go. I know that in typical S&G and strip that the joints tend to be the strongest part of the hull, is the same true of Cold. Is the overlapping diagonal joint the area of greatest strength? 

If it IS a decent idea to precut to a certain width, what might that width be? I asume....6-8 inch. Thank's for your time and effort!


P.S., 2.50 per hour....you sound like an Architect! I once charged an associate $500 for a set of custom plans that took me about 120 hours to design, and make the construction documents (Arch, electrical, and HVAC). If I recall correctly I produced about 30 drawings. He had the audacity to get mad cause I charged him for my services. He thought inviting me over for dinner and beer was payment enough....I don't even drink beer! Imagine that:

Single beer= $2.00
4 slices of pizza= $12.00


Also, for trimming down the ends of glued up planks, what is your preferred tool? I assume a good Japanese pull saw would be the ticket.

That would have meant 14/120= .12
He wanted me to work for 12 cent and hour!


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## Boatdesigner

I don't believe the joints are the strongest part, if they were we would just cast the boats from epoxy! Yes, the wood will fail before the epoxy in a good joint, but the epoxy has almost no tensile strength without the wood or some other fiber. I don't think of it in terms of what the strongest part is as I have designed it so the weakest part is strong enough to sustain the load. Just as an architect designs the entire floor system to be strong enough to support the anticipated load on the floor.

I don't think pre-cutting works well on a diagonally planked boat. On the bottom and topsides back aft, you may be able to use 4 foot wide planks, so why cut them down? The planking will be stronger with fewer joints. Remember, half the fibers in plywood go across the plank. When you cut them into strips you do not have continuous fibers on half the hull. That is why a high end boat like a Rybovich is built with thin planks of Mahogany rather than plywood as all the fibers are continuous. The fewer parts and joints the better.

I don't think the average person has any idea how much time it takes to design things, be they boats, cars or houses. The drawing of the hull structure doesn't usually take that much time, but the math and thought that goes into calculating all the various bits and pieces takes quite a while. A weight study on a 20' boat may take 15-20 hours of time, yet it doesn't show up on any drawings that you can see.

A Japanese pull saw sounds good to me, but I have never built a boat! I would think a good Sawzall may work as well, as long as the operator knows what they are doing. A grinder, power planer and a Sawzall are tools that can either save you a lot of time or ruin your day!


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## nick_lee

I would like to order a set of plans for this skiff, I tried to order off your website but it directed me to paypals home page. let me know how to go about getting a set of plans please.


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## Boatdesigner

Hi bocephus, thanks for the heads up! I have been playing with the site a bit lately as it wasn't showing up right in IE. Evidently I broke the link when I was fixing it! If you send me an email through the contact page with your name and address, I'll send you an invoice through Paypal. I'll try to fix the site tomorrow! Sorry about that!


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## nick_lee

site works now thanks.


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## oysterbreath

A few questions:

I've been looking over some cold mold boat builds. Today, mainly from this site:
http://www.vandamboats.com/
I've noticed that sometimes they start planking from the sheer, sometimes from the hull bottom. I'm guessing it really depends on the design. But that brings me to another point. On your design, does the builder need to plain the chin logs with a compound taper as the curvature of the attaching pieces of planking changes or is this area simply filled with wood flour and epoxy?

Also It seems that the transition from sheer to deck is really sharp on your design. Is there any vertically flat area there to accommodate a rub rail or does the builder need to simply come up with something on his own?

Thanks

I have spent a lot of time just looking over prints of your PDFs...I might have to break down and buy the plans soon. I was gonna wait and just get them with the kit (MUCH MUCH later) but I'm getting twitchy! lol


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## Boatdesigner

Hi Oyster, the chine does have to be beveled to match the planking. It shouldn't be too hard though as it is pretty small. This is a good place for an old fashioned hand plane. 

I assumed that you would do the bottom first, then the sides, then the bottom, then the sides again. It may not matter all that much though. Plank both sides at once so you don't twist the hull out of shape with the planking.

Up forward the transition is pretty sharp, with the deck edge being the main vertical surface. I may have left this a little too vague on the drawings, but I thought the best way to do it would be with a flat piece of wood added to the deck as a toe rail and a rub rail laminated around the outside in thin layers. The toe rail would let you know when you got to the edge so you wouldn't step off. I am sure others could come up with other ways to do it as well. I'll add this to the list of things to clarify on the plans. When people make suggestions, I modify the plans and then send the previous purchasers updated drawings.

I've got to give a bone marrow sample tomorrow, so probably won't get much time to visit the forums.


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## oysterbreath

I hope you've recovered from the bone marrow taking. I know that can be a tough thing to go through! Once you get better, do you have any new designs in the making? Still considering about a 16' Osprey?


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