# Who Wants to Talk Flats Fishing?



## PuntaG (Dec 31, 2019)

Where my flats gurus at? 

I'm wildly inexperienced when it comes to fishing the flats, but I hear the fish calling... For most of my life I've had the fortune of an old timer sitting in my corner showing me tips & tricks he's picked up over the last 60 years, but the flats are as much out of his wheelhouse as they are mine. So, I'm hoping there are some surrogate old timers out there that might help me avoid the common novice mistakes.

My first concern is running full bore in skinny water, especially when I'm scouting. An unfamiliar grass flat isn't exactly a prime location to run my new skiff... Do you have a due diligence checklist in the back of your mind when combing new territory? Do you leave the job somewhere between your Lowrance and God?

What are some of your favorite ways to pick apart a new flat? Once you've become familiar enough with an area that you won't punch a hole in your fiberglass, what are the first techniques you use to find the honey holes? My go-to for fishing a new mangrove slot is a gold spoon, fluke, or jigging a live shrimp on the bottom. Are there any favored lures in ever flats fisherman's tacklebox?

Lastly, I'm upgrading my Gheenoe for a more qualified flats boat but don't know what features I need to prioritize. What are some vital accessories/ specs that every flats boat needs? It goes without saying that a they need to run in skinny water, so a shallow draft is probably first on the punchlist, but what else might a boat benefit from? Are jack plates necessary, do you need a polling platform if you have a trolling motor, do you like a long front deck or prefer a shorter deck that allows for more hull space, etc. etc?

This is a lot to ask in one post so I appreciate anyone that wants to chime in. Many thanks and good luck fishing!


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## Fishhead (Dec 22, 2019)

PuntaG said:


> Where my flats gurus at?
> 
> I'm wildly inexperienced when it comes to fishing the flats, but I hear the fish calling... For most of my life I've had the fortune of an old timer sitting in my corner showing me tips & tricks he's picked up over the last 60 years, but the flats are as much out of his wheelhouse as they are mine. So, I'm hoping there are some surrogate old timers out there that might help me avoid the common novice mistakes.
> 
> ...


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## Fishhead (Dec 22, 2019)

There is lots of good information on Flats Class fishing shows and Flats Class University. That would be a good place to start.


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## makin moves (Mar 20, 2010)

Don't run a flat looking for fish. Pole or trolling motor. You don't tear up your boat or the grass thos way.


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## tcov (Apr 7, 2018)

Where are your home waters?


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## PuntaG (Dec 31, 2019)

tcov said:


> Where are your home waters?


I grew up fishing in Kentucky but my folks moved to Punta Gorda, Fl in 2017 so I try to spend as much time down there as I can. I mainly fish the mangroves and canals but have done a good bit around the Boca pass and Port Charlotte


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## tcov (Apr 7, 2018)

PuntaG said:


> I grew up fishing in Kentucky but my folks moved to Punta Gorda, Fl in 2017 so I try to spend as much time down there as I can. I mainly fish the mangroves and canals but have done a good bit around the Boca pass and Port Charlotte


Certainly no shortage of good water to fish around there! 

To answer some of your questions...For navigating, I would stick to marked channels and areas where you know depths and are not going to tear up the grass flats. In shallow and unfamiliar areas I would idle, troll, or pole around. As you become more familiar with areas you will learn where you can and cannot run safely for both yourself and the seagrass/bottom. 

As for the fishing, I would spend a lot of time researching/learning about where the fish will be at different times of the year. The baits you’re mentioned about are all good. Spoons can be great search baits and cover lots of water. Flukes are in most anglers top 5 go to artificials. But you will need to be around fish to catch fish so try learning their patterns, feeding habits, etc.. time on the water, good fishing buddies, and research are the ways to achieve this knowledge. Keeping a log book with notes about fish catches, tides, baits, conditions, etc.. is a good way to learn patterns as you can study the past notes. For some specifics, try looking for flats with good grass and pot holes and bait around. Mullet schools on flats can be a fish magnet. Find all those together and you should find predator fish. Also oyster bars will holds tons of fish on the right conditions. I find the later part of an incoming tide can be good. 

As for the boat, that’s kind of a crap shoot tbh. You will get every opinion from decked out to minimalist. All boats work. Some just better suited then others. I would get whatever you feel comfortable with running around and what fits the budget.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

If you honor the flats and the fish that use them you will find them. Know your boat and what it will run in and know your area and where to run. When in doubt, pole, use a trolling motor or idle. FSM tracks can help. Or you could just tear everything up like so many do.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

As someone else suggested, Captain CA Richardson offers his "Flats Class University" on line, and it's free. For less than $100 per year, you might also consider a membership in Saltstrong Fishing Community. Finally, I recommend hiring guides for a few trips, especially ones who enjoy teaching newbies. Good Luck!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

There’s no substitute for time on the water. Start simple, don’t try to run skinny if you don’t know the area and if your boat can’t run skinny stay in the channels and pole.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

I can tell you that if I had hired a guide when I first started flats fishing it would have probably saved me more than a year of relatively unsuccessful fishing trips. Too bad I'm stubborn as hell.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

You know where you want to fish so you need to know how you want to fish (bait, lures, fly) and what fish you want to try and catch. Do you fish with someone or solo? Do you have long runs or have to cross big water to get to where you want to fish or is it easy calm water. This will help you decide what boat. Your Gheenoe is likely a good boat to hold onto while figuring the flats fishing out and you might decide it is the right boat for you or if not, help you decide what features you want on your next boat.

Once you know what you want to fish for and how, read about it online, in magazines, watch Youtube videos. Study the areas from Google maps and go get a paper chart of the area and learn to read it. Get familiar with the paper chart as it will be the basis of your chartplotter map.

Go spend some time drifting and/or poling the flats areas you want to learn. Keep an eye on the depth reading as you drift over different areas and pay attention to small contour changes, holes, small channels and rises in the bottom. Never burn a flat just to look for fish, especially if you don't know the area. Don't be that guy that we will make a thread rant about on the forums. More so, it stresses the fish, can tear up sea grasses, and could tear up your boat.

While you are thinking about all that, go hire a guide or two. Tell them right up front that you want to learn the area and how to fish it rather than just box a bunch of fish.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

A bunch of great tips here. Best being pole an area and time.
We can fish all year in Fl, however the patterns change with seasons, tides and baits. So it may take a year or two to figure those out.
You can hire guides, watch shows and infomercials. But they can’t teach you what time staring into the water or a shoreline can.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

There is not one of these in existence. 







It’s going to take hundreds of trips just to get comfortable out there then even more to start actually figuring it all out. It’s like getting a degree, you won’t get a good one over night.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh one more important item or two. Great glasses and a hat.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Capnredfish said:


> Oh one more important item or two. Great glasses and a hat.


And proper clothing and sunscreen. This could be a long thread if we start listing items you “need”.


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## PuntaG (Dec 31, 2019)

Capnredfish said:


> Oh one more important item or two. Great glasses and a hat.


I hear that! Every guide down here looks like they're hiding from the sun: wide brim hat, glasses, sun shirt, long pants. It makes sense, it can get pretty intense when you're fishing all day.


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## got1on (Jun 24, 2019)

Try and scout the flats you intend to fish at low tide. Take note of where the flats drain and where the deeper pockets are.


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## PuntaG (Dec 31, 2019)

jay.bush1434 said:


> You know where you want to fish so you need to know how you want to fish (bait, lures, fly) and what fish you want to try and catch. Do you fish with someone or solo? Do you have long runs or have to cross big water to get to where you want to fish or is it easy calm water. This will help you decide what boat. Your Gheenoe is likely a good boat to hold onto while figuring the flats fishing out and you might decide it is the right boat for you or if not, help you decide what features you want on your next boat.
> 
> Once you know what you want to fish for and how, read about it online, in magazines, watch Youtube videos. Study the areas from Google maps and go get a paper chart of the area and learn to read it. Get familiar with the paper chart as it will be the basis of your chartplotter map.
> 
> ...


Everything you're saying makes perfect sense and this is one reason I wanted to ask a forum before I jump in. What you're describing sounds a lot like what I've watched people do on the Pine Island grass flats. It never would've occurred to me how much damage it can do simply because I've seen tons of people plow over shallow water going full bore. 

There's no substitution for time and experience so I should probably get out on the water!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

And believe it or not, getting out of the boat and wading is one of the best ways to learn a flat. You will be able to tell where the nuances are and take mental notes where these little dropoffs and “bowls” are that fish will hide in and travel down to feed. Even a 6” drop is a lot to a fish and can be the ticket to catching. You rarely notice these while poling, trolling or drifting and fishing.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

PuntaG said:


> ...My first concern is running full bore in skinny water, especially when I'm scouting.
> 
> ...Do you leave the job somewhere between your Lowrance and God?
> 
> ...


Watch Waypoint TV shows. Go through the Saltstrong, LAFB, or Flats Class online courses.

Use Google Earth to do your research. Make a plan to have the sun at your back while drifting or poling across a flat. Go west in the morning, and east in the evening.Idle back around and drift or pole across on different lines to find cuts and holes that will be more productive on low water.

Gold spoons and plastic swim tail baits that you can just cast and reel are better for searching.

Forget about running skinny. Find deep water routes to/from flats. Jack plates don't catch fish.

The answers to all those other questions will evolve as you spend time on the water.

Or you can hire a guide.


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## PuntaG (Dec 31, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> And believe it or not, getting out of the boat and wading is one of the best ways to learn a flat. You will be able to tell where the nuances are and take mental notes where these little dropoffs and “bowls” are that fish will hide in and travel down to feed. Even a 6” drop is a lot to a fish and can be the ticket to catching. You rarely notice these while poling, trolling or drifting and fishing.


What I've watched on fishing channels, YouTube, etc. shows people fish along the edges or in the negative spaces (i.e. the "holes") around grass flats. Essentially they're fishing where the grass _isn’t. _Is this typically the case? Or are there lures/ techniques that can cover water and be fished over grass? (first thing that comes to mind is a top water that won't get hung up) 

And the wading concept is very interesting! I've done something similar in backwater creeks but what you're talking about is a couple orders of magnitude more involved. Very excited to try it out.


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## Fishhead (Dec 22, 2019)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> There is not one of these in existence.
> View attachment 109458
> 
> It’s going to take hundreds of trips just to get comfortable out there then even more to start actually figuring it all out. It’s like getting a degree, you won’t get a good one over night.


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## Fishhead (Dec 22, 2019)

Embrace the learning process, a successful day isnt so much about what you caught but is more about what you learned and the experience.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Fishhead said:


> Embrace the learning process, a successful day isnt so much about what you caught but is more about what you learned and the experience.


And we are all still learning! I’m learning that I work too much and don’t get to fish as much as I’d like!


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Each time you visit a spot look closely and carefully, observe what the water is doing, whether the water looks low or high, moving in or out, observe what the fish are doing (or aren't doing) and just generally howe things "look". Then gather data from the nearest tide station on what the predicted tide was vs what the water level actually was and wind directions and speed. In time you'll learn what tihe tide differentials are between the tide stations and the area you are actually fishing. You'll also start to piece together how wind affects tide and water levels, and in the course of all that you may get an idea of where and how you need to fish with given tide and/or wind conditions. It can take quite a while and a lot of time on the water to really start to piece this stuff together. Taking notes for reference will help. The closer a spot is to a tide station, the easier it generally is to figure out.


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## Tautog166 (Jul 7, 2018)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> And proper clothing and sunscreen. This could be a long thread if we start listing items you “need”.


Don’t start a clothing thread! They get as long as the political ones. It’s like there’s a bunch of women here.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2020)

Walter Lee said:


> Don’t start a clothing thread! They get as long as the political ones. It’s like there’s a bunch of women here.


What would be wrong with a bunch of women?


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## Scrob (Aug 26, 2015)

Im convinced trolling motors spook fish off of flats, at least our mud flats in FE Fla. Even on a constant low speed I can never get close enough to cast a fly rod at em. Now when I fish solo I only pole from the bow and its been working much better. If you are gonna use a TM, keep it low speed, off the bottom, and dont speed up or down too much. If you are blowing them out or they love outta range switch to pole


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## ljk (Mar 28, 2019)

jimsmicro said:


> I can tell you that if I had hired a guide when I first started flats fishing it would have probably saved me more than a year of relatively unsuccessful fishing trips. Too bad I'm stubborn as hell.


OP, if you are a wounded or disabled military veteran, my organization will provide guided trips in your area absolutely FREE. If applicable, PM me, I will “hook you up!”


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## Backcountry 16 (Mar 15, 2016)

I have one word for you fishing anywhere in Swfl and that's stealth. Probably the hardest hit area minus the keys we have major fishing pressure down here and it's never gonna be the way it was which was a great place to grow up.,,


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## PuntaG (Dec 31, 2019)

ljk said:


> OP, if you are a wounded or disabled military veteran, my organization will provide guided trips in your area absolutely FREE. If applicable, PM me, I will “hook you up!”


Currently serving in the Nat Guard and fortunately not injured. If you send me your info I’d be happy to spread the word.


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## BobGee (Apr 10, 2019)

Fishhead said:


> Embrace the learning process, a successful day isnt so much about what you caught but is more about what you learned and the experience.


Embrace failure too. You can learn as much from failure as success. Maybe more because you’re listening.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

Pay your dues...or pay a guide...


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## Ice Cream Man (Jul 16, 2017)

Fishhead said:


> Embrace the learning process, a successful day isnt so much about what you caught but is more about what you learned and the experience.


Best advice IMHO.
I have learned more about fishing when I'm not stressed out by NOT catching fish........ Add a cooler or platform to the bow of your boat for spotting fish.......ICM


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## Fishhead (Dec 22, 2019)

Ice Cream Man said:


> Best advice IMHO.
> I have learned more about fishing when I'm not stressed out by NOT catching fish........ Add a cooler or platform to the bow of your boat for spotting fish.......ICM


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## Fishhead (Dec 22, 2019)

A day where boat handling, presentation and sighting all goes well or as the bass pros say "I fished clean today" whether you caught a fish or not is extremely important. The catching will come. The old saying I didnt fail today , I just found 10,000 things that didnt work holds true.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

If nobody has mentioned it yet, keep a fishing log too. I can reference mine back for years and see what was happening (or not happening) based on location and conditions.


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## Scott Orselli (Sep 17, 2019)

I have a 14-foot panga was a 25 horsepower Honda 4-stroke goes to the flats like a champ draws very little water very maneuverable and will catch fish they are beautiful both but they're hard to find especially one with a center console mine is rigged right put a GPS and Fishfinder from Garmin and runs like a champ believe it or not the 25 will run 24 miles an hour Against the Wind and I've only got a 3 gallon tank on it can run for hours on less than 2 gallons of gas try to beat that and it's a fishing machine


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## PuntaG (Dec 31, 2019)

Scott Orselli said:


> I have a 14-foot panga was a 25 horsepower Honda 4-stroke goes to the flats like a champ draws very little water very maneuverable and will catch fish they are beautiful both but they're hard to find especially one with a center console mine is rigged right put a GPS and Fishfinder from Garmin and runs like a champ believe it or not the 25 will run 24 miles an hour Against the Wind and I've only got a 3 gallon tank on it can run for hours on less than 2 gallons of gas try to beat that and it's a fishing machine


That’s exactly what my mentor told me to get. He fished exclusively out of pangas in Panama & Costa Rica and raves about them


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Don’t believe everything you hear or read. “Trust but verify”


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Scott Orselli said:


> I have a 14-foot panga was a 25 horsepower Honda 4-stroke goes to the flats like a champ draws very little water very maneuverable and will catch fish they are beautiful both but they're hard to find especially one with a center console mine is rigged right put a GPS and Fishfinder from Garmin and runs like a champ believe it or not the 25 will run 24 miles an hour Against the Wind and I've only got a 3 gallon tank on it can run for hours on less than 2 gallons of gas try to beat that and it's a fishing machine


That’s one hell of a run-on sentence Scott. Got any photos?


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## Ben (Dec 21, 2016)

The negative low tides we get this time of year around the new and full moons are a great time to learn the waters.


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## Snagly (Dec 17, 2019)

I'll second the suggestion of a fishing journal, but if you already know Excel you can build a spreadsheet that you can sort by date, location, air temp, water temp, hi/lo tides, tide height (start/ finish), start/ finish time, time fishing, what you used, what you hooked/landed and then a couple sentences to refresh your memory in future years.

Frankly, it's a PITA when you fish a half-dozen spots in a day and are bushed when you return home. I'm often falling asleep as I type in the info often from scrawled notes made on the boat (always have a pen and paper in a Ziploc, or if it's impossible to stay dry then use a grease pencil and white laminated sheets to take notes on). The first year or two, you don't have enough entries to make the sort function worthwhile, but after a few years worth of inputs . . . you can check the tides for when you're next out, and then find a handful of identical situations already logged. It helps a lot.

The downside? Well, every time a big storm rips through an area you may find your historical database no longer applies as those flats are gone or reconfigured.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Snagly said:


> I'll second the suggestion of a fishing journal, but if you already know Excel you can build a spreadsheet that you can sort by date, location, air temp, water temp, hi/lo tides, tide height (start/ finish), start/ finish time, time fishing, what you used, what you hooked/landed and then a couple sentences to refresh your memory in future years.
> 
> Frankly, it's a PITA when you fish a half-dozen spots in a day and are bushed when you return home. I'm often falling asleep as I type in the info often from scrawled notes made on the boat (always have a pen and paper in a Ziploc, or if it's impossible to stay dry then use a grease pencil and white laminated sheets to take notes on). The first year or two, you don't have enough entries to make the sort function worthwhile, but after a few years worth of inputs . . . you can check the tides for when you're next out, and then find a handful of identical situations already logged. It helps a lot.
> 
> The downside? Well, every time a big storm rips through an area you may find your historical database no longer applies as those flats are gone or reconfigured.


That's a great way to do it, but honestly, if I just know the date, location and the results I can get online and quickly pull up historical weather and tide info. Of course the upside to your method is searchability by tide level and weather.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

You can read or watch all the crap you want but in the end nothing compares to time spent on the water. There is only one shortcut in fishing and that is fishing with someone else who has a lot of experience, other than that you will need to figure most of it out on your own. As you spend time fishing you will slowly, but surely figure it out. Once you find some good spots you can start looking on google earth to find other spots that are similar. When you are learning an area start marking a waypoint when you catch or see good fish, you may start to see a pattern. 

I applaud your excitement to get started and this is certainly a good place to pick up some tips but you will soon learn that nothing compares to just being out there. Good luck!


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

Hire a guide or guides and go with them with an all-learning attitude. Cover up from the sun, stay hydrated and most importantly replace your electrolytes. I nearly killed myself (really) by drinking just water several days in a row without replacing my electrolytes - 2 1/2 days in a FL hospital was my prize.


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## Snagly (Dec 17, 2019)

One caution about going fishing with a guide to learn the water. You should be upfront with the guide and tell him that you're looking to DIY at some point and he shouldn't take you to his super secret spot(s). Many guides simply decline the booking. Others will take you the most obvious public places.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

Snagly said:


> One caution about going fishing with a guide to learn the water. You should be upfront with the guide and tell him that you're looking to DIY at some point and he shouldn't take you to his super secret spot(s). Many guides simply decline the booking. Others will take you the most obvious public places.


Agreed, don't be that guy who fishes with a local guide just to steal his spots. Lame!


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

I always get a chuckle out of the “my spots” talk. What if you find it yourself and someone else has been fishing it “forever “.


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## Big Fish (Dec 20, 2019)

rcbrower said:


> I always get a chuckle out of the “my spots” talk. What if you find it yourself and someone else has been fishing it “forever “.


Then it is obviously your spot too. Cant piss on a spot to claim it. That being said if someone takes you to a "secret' spot of theirs and asks you not to fish it without them then you should respect that, or at least ask before trying it again.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I have two fishing guide friends who are neighbors of mine and they have taken it on to teach me the area and more. Lucky guy. I so respect them and always ask if it is ok for me alone e to fish a spot. If they have a client on a day I am out I absolutely stay away from anything they have shown me. I find what they show me teachers me certain conditions for me to duplicate in other areas. Most important is honoring the flats and not tearing them up.And I often pole for them.


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## finbully (Jan 26, 2013)

7WT said:


> I find what they show me teachers me certain conditions for me to duplicate in other areas.


I 100% agree with what you are saying. IMO the hunting part of fishing is just as or more rewarding than catching. Not saying catching isn’t fun but figuring out where they are and what I need to do to entice the bite is the best part for me.


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## Str8-Six (Jul 6, 2015)

Personally I like figuring things out myself even if that means getting skunked some trips. That avoids the whole guide showed me a spot thing. If I find someone in one of my spots I take it as a great opportunity to explore. No one can claim a spot on the water, that’s just silly.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Str8-Six said:


> Personally I like figuring things out myself even if that means getting skunked some trips. That avoids the whole guide showed me a spot thing. If I find someone in one of my spots I take it as a great opportunity to explore. No one can claim a spot on the water, that’s just silly.


Are you sure you want to open that can of worms?


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