# 7/8 wt Shootout - Cracker Style



## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> In recent threads there's been a lot of discussion about high end vs. low end rods. In order to shed some light (or more confusion) on the issue, I've taken it upon myself to do a little 7/8 wt rod comparison. Rod #1 is a Chinese made 7 wt. It's advertised as IM-14 Japanese carbon assembled with nano resin. Rod #2 is the TFO BVK 8 wt, which is a well regarded rod which, in performance, supposedly compares well to $800+ rods. The TFO is made in Korea. Rods were tested with Rio Redfish fly line in the appropriate weight for each rod.
> 
> The Chinese rod was purchased new from eBay for $35. The TFO retails for $280 plus $30 if you want a rod tube. The Chinese rod comes with a nice aluminum rod tube and a spare tip. In a general comparison of the rods, the Chinese rod had a longer, higher quality grip than the TFO. The Chinese rod also came with a hook holder. The TFO had larger stripping quides and one more snake guide. The finish on both rods was about equal, nothing exceedingly fancy, but very nice. The TFO did appear to use more epoxy on the wrapping. The TFO advertises a weight of 3.2 oz, the Chinese rod, 3.5 oz. Both measured exactly as claimed on my scale.
> 
> ...



I'm impressed with the review and the effort. Some of the rhetoric was funny and some wasn't needed for the review. But in the end, it was worth the read for sure.

I'm not quiet sure it was an equal comparison, but if somehow you can borrow or get ahold of a 7wt BVK, you find that it has a much lighter swing weight than their 8wt. So comparing your chinese 7wt to the 7wt BVK would be a closer review IMO.

It would also be worth the $35 to get the 8wt version of that chinese rod and compare it to your 8wt BVK and also see how those 2 compares to each other as well. I'm sure someone will buy it off of you after the review is done, if you don't need another 8wt handing around. Heck, I'll buy it and give it somebody for that price! 

So here's what I really like about this whole thing with your review. A lot of us know where the BVK stands and it's a good rule of thumb to line other mig price point and inexpensive rods up to and see where they stand. So if these rods compares even somewhat close to the BVK, then you really have got something you can refer to someone who would like to get into fly fishing but can't afford the expense doing so. Also, you take the edge off that fear factor for a newbie who want to play in the game but is somewhat skeptical. It's had to say "naw...." for $35 for a nice casting rod, with an extra tip and rod tube. I've seen ok reels in that price range as well, along with the lines.

So Vertigo, nice job and I hope we can all get a closer look at a 7wt vs 7wt and a 8wt vs 8wt between the BVK and the chinese rod.

Ted


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Unfortunately, the Chinese rod to the specs I tested is not to be found in 8 wt on eBay, and I'm cheap enough and poor enough that I'm not going to buy a 7 wt BVK. I guess the real point of my review is that a lot of what we're paying for in fly fishing gear is advertising hype. I'll bet that the same factory that made my nice little 7 wt for $35 is making the same rod for some name label that sells it for more like $600. Crazy when you think about it, a complete rig of pretty decent quality without the big name sells for less than 100' of good quality fly line with a well-known label. The fly fishing industry is screwing itself over by over-pricing gear...I think Lefty has come to the same conclusion.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

I looked for this rod on eBay, couldn't find it, do you think maybe you were just lucky and found a one time deal?
JC


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Here's the link. There are only three left, so you'd better hurry. It's buy now or best offer. Offer $35, he'll take it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161899987022?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## KnotHome (Jul 21, 2009)

LOVED your rating system! Thanks for the review, and yeah, more details of where to find these chinese rods on ebay would be great (I "need" another backup).


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Nice review.... The problem with a test like this is it does not test the real quality of the equipment. What will be interesting to see is how that rod looks, feels, and casts two or three years from now. But for the price point might not matter.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> Unfortunately, the Chinese rod to the specs I tested is not to be found in 8 wt on eBay, and I'm cheap enough and poor enough that I'm not going to buy a 7 wt BVK. I guess the real point of my review is that a lot of what we're paying for in fly fishing gear is advertising hype. I'll bet that the same factory that made my nice little 7 wt for $35 is making the same rod for some name label that sells it for more like $600. Crazy when you think about it, a complete rig of pretty decent quality without the big name sells for less than 100' of good quality fly line with a well-known label. The fly fishing industry is screwing itself over by over-pricing gear...I think Lefty has come to the same conclusion.


Yes, that same factory or some people affiliated with a chinese factory producing an American company's design are likely making those cheap rods. One of the big problems (there are many) with outsourcing manufacturing to china is there is no protection of the designs being produced such as copyright, patents, etc. That rod is likely almost identical to a Reddington, Echo, Cabelas, Bass Pro, L.L. bean, or other chinese made rod and the reels are likely stolen designs from Orvis, Reddington, 3tand, Cabelas, etc. Granted, it's those companies own fault for choosing to produce their products over there, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Fishing tackle and gear is one of the few industries where it's not that difficult to stay away from "made in china" and still get everything you need. Think about where your dollar goes when you support American companies that employ American workers. Also, think about where your dollar goes when you buy from a small local shop vs. a big box store. There are also those companies like TFO and St. Croix that outsource some production to Korea or Mexico which are more economically and politically friendly to the US and, in general, have more ethical and safer production standards. There's a reason those rods are only $35; likely a stolen design built by someone (possibly very young) being paid next to nothing with production methods that have no consideration for the safety of the workers or regard to environmental impact.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

I've heard that actual production costs for an assembled rod in China are less than $10 and several brands are produced under the same roof, so it's quite likely that rods like this are just coming out the back door of one of these factories as no name rods and sold on eBay etc. It's pretty much the same as iPhones which can be bought over there for $50 or less. This is a stark illustration of the markup there is in the pipeline and how little people get paid to do the work.
JC


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Vertigo, Please add "Tailing Loop" points to your next shootout. Think of it like the cavity back golf clubs that correct for off-center hits by design. I could really use a fly rod that automatically corrects for my abrupt applications of power. Especially on my real cast, my false casting is great. I think the actual physics term is "jerk". But whatever you want to call it is ok How about Vertical Curve Cast? just another idea.....keep up the good work.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Since the economics of offshore production have been introduced to this thread, let me share my thoughts on the subject. If a company produces goods in the U.S. and pays American workers fair wages a product might cost $100 to make and sell for $200. The company/owners/stockholders make $50 after taxes. If the same product is produced overseas, it costs $10 to make, $5 to transport and sells for $200. In this case the owners make $135 after taxes. In the first case owners make a reasonable profit, workers get a reasonable wage and can afford to buy American goods. In the second case owners make an obscene profit, American workers go on welfare, and those of us left can only afford to shop at Walmart. Does this scenario seem familiar? 

I have no sympathy for companies who take their designs and production offshore. They deserve to be undercut. Probably the only thing that will ever stop this downward spiral is that the Chinese (and Indonesians and Mexicans, etc., etc.) will continue to produce for their own profit, raise their own standard of living and thus become too expensive for U.S. companies to exploit. The fact that this isn't going to happen anytime soon is one of the few thoughts that make me glad to be in my geezerhood. I see some pretty tough times ahead for my grandchildren.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just for reference: I have contacted one of the largest fishing gear manufacturers in China and they have graciously provided me their price list. Apparently anyone can order direct from them. Here are some sample prices:

Japanese Toray Carbon Rod Blanks, nano resin construction, (4-piece): $16, MOQ 50
Best quality 8 wt fly rod constructed of above materials: $80
Standard quality 8 wt fly rod: $45
Chain store quality 8 wt fly rod: $25
Top quality carbon disc, waterproof saltwater 8 wt reel: $80
Good quality forged reel: $18

Here's the one that really kills me: set of rod guides 99 cents as opposed to $13+++ from the likes of BPS.

These prices are rounded off, and the minimum order quantity is one (1) for everything except rod blanks which are custom made to order. As Americans get smarter, I see them ordering directly from the Chinese manufacturers and cutting out the obscene profits made by American companies in name only. Check eBay, there are more than a few folks doing just this right now. My experience has taught me that there are some pretty good deals to be had.


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## jonrconner (May 20, 2015)

Pretty interesting, my quote of $10 was from several years ago, but those prices are still pretty amazing. 
I build my own rods on CTS blanks from New Zealand which are over $300 now, the rest of the components, RECoil guides, Fugi titanium strippers, cork from Portugal and an REC seat add up to more than $100, then I have to build it, probably six hours. I think that real costs for a domestic manufacturer probably are about $100 for blank and components plus labor which has got to be $75, and then they charge us $800 at the shop. Given the expense of running the factory, advertising, etc, plus the shop's need to profit, it's not surprising what rods cost.
JC


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> Just for reference: I have contacted one of the largest fishing gear manufacturers in China and they have graciously provided me their price list. Apparently anyone can order direct from them. Here are some sample prices:
> 
> Japanese Toray Carbon Rod Blanks, nano resin construction, (4-piece): $16, MOQ 50
> Best quality 8 wt fly rod constructed of above materials: $80
> ...


I must be your huckleberry, picked one up for $32.94 ($50 including shipping). If it casts slightly better than a broomstick it will be a good travel back-up rod.

Cortland sold some very respectable trout rods a few years ago, my understanding is that their cost delivered to the US was $13. The rod would give some of the current rods of the day a run for their money.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> Just for reference: I have contacted one of the largest fishing gear manufacturers in China and they have graciously provided me their price list. Apparently anyone can order direct from them. Here are some sample prices:
> 
> Japanese Toray Carbon Rod Blanks, nano resin construction, (4-piece): $16, MOQ 50
> Best quality 8 wt fly rod constructed of above materials: $80
> ...


Very interesting info. This only further illustrates the made in China scam. I wonder in you can direct order other things in single quantity from manufacturers like that.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

The problem is that there is no correct answer here.
pt448 echos my sentiments. I hate to buy Chinese products (fact is their quality typically is very poor especially if metals are involved). And as a retired engineer who spent the last 10 years in the energy field I can tell you that China is at the top of the list for emissions to the atmosphere (and for the record I do not believe in Climate Change....I do believe that we can contribute to it and China is the worst). So I try an avoid buying Chinese products.
But Vertigo is also correct in pointing out the silly high costs we get charged for American produced products.
Each has to decide for themselves which way they feel is appropriate for them.

Now I will point out one major issue I feel that has not been addressed in this topic. In fairness to the American made product a good portion of the markup we pay is to cover their development costs. Should it be this high? Probably not. But the fact is the Chinese STEAL those designs and then copy them and market them for next to nothing. Oh and BTW when a company sends a product to China to be produced guess who pays for any plant modifications that have to be made in order to produce that product? The US company pays for that as part of the production costs. And FWIW I know first hand (fly reels I was involved with) that the Chinese sign licensing and nondisclosure agreements with the product owner. Fact is that those Chinese back door products are mostly likely illegal and in violation of those agreements. Perhaps shame on the American companies for letting this happen but in the end its still cheaper for them to let that slide than to take legal action or just stop doing business with the Chinese.

So lots to this issue.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> The problem is that there is no correct answer here.
> pt448 echos my sentiments. I hate to buy Chinese products (fact is their quality typically is very poor especially if metals are involved). And as a retired engineer who spent the last 10 years in the energy field I can tell you that China is at the top of the list for emissions to the atmosphere (and for the record I do not believe in Climate Change....I do believe that we can contribute to it and China is the worst). So I try an avoid buying Chinese products.
> But Vertigo is also correct in pointing out the silly high costs we get charged for American produced products.
> Each has to decide for themselves which way they feel is appropriate for them.
> ...


Very good points. 

Development costs are probably significant, but you have to believe that a majority of costs are associated with promotion and advertising. How is it that a 100 foot length of plasticized material could cost $75 - $100? I know for a fact that once production runs start for fly lines, the cost per unit (fly line alone, not including packaging) is under $0.25 . God Bless them!


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

sjm1580 said:


> I must be your huckleberry, picked one up for $32.94 ($50 including shipping). If it casts slightly better than a broomstick it will be a good travel back-up rod.
> 
> Cortland sold some very respectable trout rods a few years ago, my understanding is that their cost delivered to the US was $13. The rod would give some of the current rods of the day a run for their money.


Please report back on the rod you receive. I'm very curious to find out if I'm just a hacker that can't appreciate a good rod or if these rods are really as good as I think they are.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> Please report back on the rod you receive. I'm very curious to find out if I'm just a hacker that can't appreciate a good rod or if these rods are really as good as I think they are.


Will do, I'm sure the rod will be good. A lot of people out there are casting Chinese rods and they just don't know it.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I know first hand that the total cost of a fly line including packaging for one major fly line company runs from $4-$7 depending on the line. So yes even when you add in development (which is not insignificant), advertising, and distribution costs the price for a fly line we pay is outrageous. All the prices we pay are stupid silly but somehow I feel better about spending $800 on a fly rod than $100 on a fly line. Just something about a new rod that is exciting and I feel like I have something to show for it. A fly line....eh....not so much.

Sorry for the derail. Back to the topic at hand. I choose not to buy Chinese. But I don't chastise those who do. Its not a simple issue.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Vertigo said:


> Just for reference: I have contacted one of the largest fishing gear manufacturers in China and they have graciously provided me their price list. Apparently anyone can order direct from them. Here are some sample prices:
> 
> These prices are rounded off, and the minimum order quantity is one (1) for everything except rod blanks which are custom made to order. As Americans get smarter, I see them ordering directly from the Chinese manufacturers and cutting out the obscene profits made by American companies in name only. Check eBay, there are more than a few folks doing just this right now. My experience has taught me that there are some pretty good deals to be had.


Remember the old saying "If its too good to be true, it probably isn't"

That applies here, and is why I try not to spend my money on things made in China. Especially considering their government supports stealing technology, artificially devaluing their currency, and harming their own citizens by ignoring health and safety issues.

Remember back in 2007 when the Chinese figured out that melamine (plastic) tests high for protein and intentionally added it to pet foods under the guise of wheat gluten. Thousands of cats and dogs, including my neighbors lab, had to die before they figured it out.

"As a result of FDA and USDA's comprehensive investigation, on February 6, 2008, FDA announced that two Chinese nationals and the businesses they operate, along with a U.S. company and its president and chief executive officer, were indicted by a federal grand jury for their roles in a scheme to import products purported to be wheat gluten into the United States that were contaminated with melamine."

I also had a friend that built a HVAC brand around air conditioner compressor units made in China. When he started having an epidemic of product failures he found the Chinese factory had started using aluminum wire in the motor windings instead of copper.

The risk of them screwing you over without recourse is so high a good business plan requires obscene gross profits.

Lastly, please consider those eBay deals you experienced and are promoting here help precipitate the tough times you're predicting for your grandchildren. (I'm not just talking about fly rods.)

This is the best news I've seen this year. Bring back small family businesses that are "Made in America".
http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/15/news/companies/walmart-store-closings/


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> I know first hand that the total cost of a fly line including packaging for one major fly line company runs from $4-$7 depending on the line. So yes even when you add in development (which is not insignificant), advertising, and distribution costs the price for a fly line we pay is outrageous. All the prices we pay are stupid silly but somehow I feel better about spending $800 on a fly rod than $100 on a fly line. Just something about a new rod that is exciting and I feel like I have something to show for it. A fly line....eh....not so much.
> 
> Sorry for the derail. Back to the topic at hand. I choose not to buy Chinese. But I don't chastise those who do. Its not a simple issue.


Funny thing is, there are a bunch of guys (and girls) out there casting Chinese rods and don't realize it...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Wow, all good points. My thoughts are that I want to buy from US companies. But if product X cost = $45 to mfg, here or even overseas (considering all their development cost, etc.), and they sell it for $450, then Is it fair for the end consumer, when an overseas company who has slightly less cost (say product X only cost them $25 to produce), sells it for a modest mark up to retail it for $99 and in the end, it saves the US consumers money? I would think so. So isn't that ALSO supporting folks here in the U.S. and keep more $$ in their pocket?? Something to consider on what's best for Americans.

This is why I do support companies like TFO who, yes outsourcing their builds, but retails them here in the U.S. where they make a profit and their dealers also get to make a profit. In the end, they are making a lot of money and selling more than the other guys because they are giving people a halfway decent product for a decent price, which in turns create value there, considering what others market their products for and what they deliver for that $$.

Don't get me wrong, if a company builds a decent rod and it might cost more than the average rod but not ridiculously priced some rods I see out there. Case in point... I'm not going to name mfg names, but will use as an example. Company X builds a rod and markets for $900 and does a big marketing hipe and claims it's the best thing since slice bread and if you want to be a "somebody", ya better buy this rod. But the thing turns out to be a piece of junk. Company Y builds an amazing rod that should be priced at that $900 price, considering the above, but retails it for $685. By far a better value and therefore would be worth the extra dough if you are a conisurer. 

Yes, I'd admit, I do like good quality built rods and reels that perform nicely. But there has to be balance to create fairness within the overall market. Otherwise, people will catch on and will turn and look for a better value, in the end. Today, loyalty is a hard thing to consistently find in the educated consumer. Yes I understand labels brings peace of mind. But come on already! If a mfg decides that the will sell that same $450 for $900 because they have a name that deserves that adjusted higher cost, when others are offering the same rod for $450, then their motives are questionable.

Bottom line with the above product (the subject chinese built rod). What I love the most out of this, is that simple fact that it allows more people to enter this sport and enjoy the pleasures of doing so on an inexpensive level that is affordable to a broader range of people. It's not just for the elite, it's for everybody and this rods helps to make that happen. The top mfg's should embrace the idea since the more people into this sport, the more potential of these people being converted and possibly buying produce from them eventually.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Ted


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Buying American is just supporting an economic model that is dead on it's feet. Greed will always win out over patriotism and altruism. Americans will continue to buy from the cheapest source until we bring our economy down to the level of the offshore producers. Morals and environment are of no concern in this little dance. I predict nasty times ahead.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Vertigo said:


> Buying American is just supporting an economic model that is dead on it's feet. Greed will always win out over patriotism and altruism. Americans will continue to buy from the cheapest source until we bring our economy down to the level of the offshore producers. Morals and environment are of no concern in this little dance. I predict nasty times ahead.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

MariettaMike said:


>


As much as I as I try to avoid buying anything made in China, I recently bought a 6wt 4pc 9’ fly rod for my son from LL Bean for $69 including a nice cork handle, a rod tube and free shipping knowing full well the rod had to have been made in China. At the end of the day, this is somewhat close to Vertigo’s ebay deal with the bonus of having a reputable company behind the product. By the way Vertigo, nice job on the rod test.

As a not unrelated aside, a few months ago Anheuser Busch lost a $50m class action suit for not fully informing the consumer that their Becks brand for the US market was actually brewed in St. Louis and not in Bremen, Germany. When you buy practically anything including food, tools, clothes, appliances, cars, boats, motors, etc., somewhere either on the product itself or on its box there is a notation as to where the product was made. But in most cases not fly rods? Am I to assume any rod under $500 retail is made either East or South of LA? At the very least, those who make their product in the US should publicize that fact.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Silly Bahamian, Anheuser Busch is NOT an American company anymore. Neither is Miller. And Coors is 58% owned by Miller.

75% of all beer sold in the US is by foreign ownership.

And your fine Harley Davidson motorcycle may soon be sporting a new badge as they were bought by Kawasaki.

Isn't America great.


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## Blue Zone (Oct 22, 2011)

DuckNut said:


> Silly Bahamian, Anheuser Busch is NOT an American company anymore. Neither is Miller. And Coors is 58% owned by Miller.
> 
> 75% of all beer sold in the US is by foreign ownership.
> 
> ...


Duckster, 
Let me correct you. I'm not Bahamian, but I might be silly. Have another look at my post; I never said AB was American, but that AB lost the suit. Coors is not owned by SAB Miller, Coors is owned by Molson (Canadian). Molson Coors is in a JV with SAB Miller in which SAB Miller owns your 58%; the JV will will most likely have to be spun off/dissolved once AB INBEV buys SAB Miller.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

I brew my own


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Blue Zone said:


> Duckster,
> Let me correct you. I'm not Bahamian, but I might be silly. Have another look at my post; I never said AB was American, but that AB lost the suit. Coors is not owned by SAB Miller, Coors is owned by Molson (Canadian). Molson Coors is in a JV with SAB Miller in which SAB Miller owns your 58%; the JV will will most likely have to be spun off/dissolved once AB INBEV buys SAB Miller.


My point wasn't to discuss who owns what exactly but rather make the rationale that even though you buy "American" style you really don't know truly that is American.

There is so very little that is 100% made in America that I don't think I can name but maybe ten items and I am quite sure that there is not a single rod that is 100% constructed from or on U.S. Soil.

I would be reiss if I did not point out the great American company GNC for selling their fake products to all those other Americans.

As stated above, Buy American is a business model that equates to going out of business.


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## anytide (Jul 30, 2009)

made in america doesnt mean by americans either.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

DuckNut said:


> My point wasn't to discuss who owns what exactly but rather make the rationale that even though you buy "American" style you really don't know truly that is American.
> 
> There is so very little that is 100% made in America that I don't think I can name but maybe ten items and *I am quite sure that there is not a single rod that is 100% constructed from or on U.S. Soil.*
> 
> ...


Sage makes ALL their fly rods in Bainbridge, WA.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

ifsteve said:


> Sage makes ALL their fly rods in Bainbridge, WA.


Do they make their own blanks, corks, guides, etc. or source them elsewhere?


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Vertigo said:


> Do they make their own blanks, corks, guides, etc. or source them elsewhere?


Sage makes their own blanks. As to the guides can't answer that, but I doubt it. As to the corks can't answer that although for sure they aren't 100% American because we don't grow cork trees in this country. So I get your point.
Yes few things are 100% grown, fabricated, and constructed from materials 100% from the so called country of origin. But I think saying that a company like Sage is Made in America still has much validity compared to many other manufacturers.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Sage uses Fuji guides and reel seats and you are right about cork.

The cloth used to build the blank is also sourced from China.

Assembled in America is a more accurate statement.

But the point has been made.

This is a great thread and has lots of worthwhile viewpoints and opinions.


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

MariettaMike said:


> Remember the old saying "If its too good to be true, it probably isn't"
> 
> That applies here, and is why I try not to spend my money on things made in China. Especially considering their government supports stealing technology, artificially devaluing their currency, and harming their own citizens by ignoring health and safety issues.
> 
> ...


Excellent argument Mike. Most of us have similar examples.


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## pt448 (Mar 22, 2014)

Sage reels are also made in Korea. They also own Reddington: Korean reels and Chinese rods. Today's economy is one of global scale and outsourcing production is often times found to be necessary by businesses to compete in a market driven by cost. Most American consumers make purchases based solely on cost. Others look at value, cost vs. quality. Very few consider how that purchase affects the economy as a whole. Personally, I don't think it's possible to avoid outsourcing, but different companies do it in different ways. Take St. Croix for instance, they build most of thier rods in the US, but to offer lower cost options they build some rods in Mexico. They know what's going on at the factory and the workers have a job and wage they can live on. Falcon on the other hand used to make all their rods here in the US, but have quietly moved more and more production to china and try to hide it from the consumer (and still charge the same price for the rod). It's impossible to only buy products made in the US, especially on a budget, but I try to avoid Chinese goods if at all possible. Never got tainted dog food, dry wall, or children's toys from Korea, Mexico, etc.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

kinda funny, but sad...


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

MariettaMike said:


> kinda funny, but sad...


Free Market Capitalism if the best path to prosperity.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

Milt is right on. It's not love that makes the world go round, it's greed. Governments and ideologies that prevent or impede greed-motivated enterprise are doomed to failure. Communism on its face was a pretty good system. It collapsed because if failed to take into consideration the greed that drives basic human behavior.

This thread has gotten far too serious and far off topic. Hopefully I'll have some nice Chinese reels to review next week.


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## sjm1580 (Jan 11, 2014)

Vertigo said:


> Milt is right on. It's not love that makes the world go round, it's greed. Governments and ideologies that prevent or impede greed-motivated enterprise are doomed to failure. Communism on its face was a pretty good system. It collapsed because if failed to take into consideration the greed that drives basic human behavior.
> 
> This thread has gotten far too serious and far off topic. Hopefully I'll have some nice Chinese reels to review next week.


Amen and Amen. Can't wait to get my $50 fly rod this week in the mail and provide my mentally limited review! Not ready to make the leap to Chinese reels but can't wait to hear your review. Great stuff!


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## bananabob (Jun 3, 2015)

Rods have sold out!
As far as cheap goes, last year I got an eight weight blank off ebay for $20 and the finished rod weighs 4.2 ounces and casts as nice as my St.Croix Legend Elite. Not including the guides I already had I have about $55-60 in it and it's one of my favorites now.


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## Bosun (Mar 11, 2016)

Vertigo said:


> Japanese Toray Carbon Rod Blanks, nano resin construction, (4-piece): $16, MOQ 50
> Best quality 8 wt fly rod constructed of above materials: $80
> Standard quality 8 wt fly rod: $45
> Chain store quality 8 wt fly rod: $25
> ...


So How does one go about ordering this stuff?? I build my own rods and would love to purchase a blank


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

As far as I can determine, minimum order quantity (MOQ) on the blanks is 50. Shipping is reasonable, but you'd still probably have to invest about $850 to get 50 blanks. It would be a pretty good deal if you could get 3 or 4 other rod builders to go in with you. Here's the order contact:

http://www.flyfishingsupplier.com/


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