# Hells Bay waterman vs professional



## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Are you looking at new? Just as an example I had a 2004 Pro which was really a Whipray Pro and a 70" beam boat. That Pro was a little different than the current Pro, which is why I mention it. I loved that boat and I'm sure you will be very pleased with either model.


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

I am intertested in this as well - I believe it is the same hull, but could be wrong.

The Whipray was the OG. 

They added sponsons and no liner for the first Waterman. This may or may not be correct.

HB then added a center console to the mix, updated the fit and finish, and you have a Professional. So the Pro was an updated Whipray with sponsons. Although I think the beam was a bit smaller than the Waterman.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this. I've done a lot of research on all the different variations of the Gladesskiff, and I'd love to own a Pro at some point.

Last point, was the Beavertail B2 splashed from a Waterman or a Professional?


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## Sublime (Oct 9, 2015)

coconutgroves said:


> Last point, was the Beavertail B2 splashed from a Waterman or a Professional?


A friend brought his Waterman over years ago and we parked my B2 right beside it. Neither one of us were convinced they were the same hull.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

You can read about here. Chris Morejohn's history of Hells Bay Boatworks beginning till 2001


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

I have a Waterman 18 (actually a Gordon) and I love it. The early Whip 17'8" were I believe essentially the same hull as the Waterman. The current Pro has a slightly different hull. When you look at a Waterman you'll see that the chine/spray rail goes all the way to the stern, on the pro the spray rail/chine ends a little aft of mid ship. In doing this they didn't taper the rail to oblivion, instead they slightly widened the back end of the boat. It's probably 21/2 - 3 inches wider at the waterline than a Waterman. 

This should theoretically provide a little more displacement and float slightly shallower at a given weight. Some people say the Pro is a little more capable in rougher water, I don't have the experience with it to know. 

What I can tell you about my Waterman is that it's great on the pole, doesn't spin quite as easy as the Whip 16 because of the sponsons, but it still spins pretty well, tracks very well, floats shallow, it's a quiet hull but there are a couple of angles where you'll get a little slap between the sponsons, usually in a quartering following wind. It's done better in rough water than I had any right to expect it to, I find it dryer than say an HPX Tunnel, definitely dryer than a Lostman (but what isn't). It's very stable at rest, doesn't feel tippy in the least. Overall My Waterman is an excellent fishing platform for me and what I do, the 2 stroke Yamaha 70 on the back of it is an excellent match for the boat, but I think they run quite well with a 60 too. Of course the build quality is out of this world. My boat is an 07 and she's as solid as anything, Tom Gordon built his Gordon's every bit as well as he was building HB's. 

When you get in an HB or a Gordon (and I'm sure any number of high quality built to order skiffs) they have a different feel to them. If you thump the hull or the deck it's a solid sound, almost like hitting thick aluminum, and the boats are very stiff, you don't feel any flex crossing a chop. I was recently in a Hewe's from the late 90's, great, well built boat, nothing bad to say about it, but tap the hull and it's far more of a hollow sound, and you can feel a little flex here and there.. I notice the same thing in most bay boats etc. 

The way these builders are building technical poling skiffs is just remarkable. Either would likely be a great boat, the hulls and dimensions are so similar I don't think you would see a lot of difference in performance.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

1st Waterman was 16 ft w/o sponsons.


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## IRLyRiser (Feb 14, 2007)

Sublime said:


> I friend brought his Waterman over years ago and we parked my B2 right beside it. Neither one of were convinced they were the same hull.


The original BT were made off a 16 waterman/whipray mold that they added sponsons to. That’s why they look a little different side by side from the transom.


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## Morgan_Duett (Jan 12, 2013)

I have a 07 waterman solid as a rock. Rides on rails, floats skinny for northeast Florida flood tides. Handles chop very well while using the tabs. I have Yamaha f70. My waterman spends most of its life in St Augustine. 5+ trips a year to chokoloskee. Performs flawlessly in both situations.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

Morgan_Duett said:


> I have a 07 waterman solid as a rock. Rides on rails, floats skinny for northeast Florida flood tides. Handles chop very well while using the tabs. I have Yamaha f70. My waterman spends most of its life in St Augustine. 5+ trips a year to chokoloskee. Performs flawlessly in both situations.


That’s another thing, the boat carves, I’ll go hard into turns, have the boat way up on its side and have never had any slide or slippage.


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## Morgan_Duett (Jan 12, 2013)




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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

TheAdamsProject said:


> Are you looking at new?


definitely looking used around the 02 models to fit my budget, still in high school but been working my ass off by this time next year I’ll have around 20 grand which hopefully then I’ll be able to find a heavily used 18 waterman in my budget. Do y’all think this is reasonable or should I work towards a 30-40k budget.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

OliverBrewton said:


> definitely looking used around the 02 models to fit my budget, still in high school but been working my ass off by this time next year I’ll have around 20 grand which hopefully then I’ll be able to find a heavily used 18 waterman in my budget. Do y’all think this is reasonable or should I work towards a 30-40k budget.


IMHO I would look to save a bit more than 20. It seems like most older Waterman's I see listed that are in good condition are around 32 - 37, but there are always deals to be made. I fell into a great deal from a friend. He lives in Washington State, the boat was in the keys, I was willing to buy it without going down to check it out because I had fished the boat before and also saw how he cared for it. He was either going to have to hire a broker or travel down to the Keys to sell it so I saved him the trouble and expense and he saved me some money.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

redchaser said:


> IMHO I would look to save a bit more than 20. It seems like most older Waterman's I see listed that are in good condition are around 32 - 37, but there are always deals to be made. I fell into a great deal from a friend. He lives in Washington State, the boat was in the keys, I was willing to buy it without going down to check it out because I had fished the boat before and also saw how he cared for it. He was either going to have to hire a broker or travel down to the Keys to sell it so I saved him the trouble and expense and he saved me some money.


Not quite looking for a mint condition boat, just something to put me on the water. I’ve looked through every single thread on MS for 18 waterman with 02-08 models running around 22.5-39. Although most these threads were from 2014-17 haven’t seen an older 18 waterman pop up in a long time. And with the watermans performance was wondering if any owners have used them for beachside tarpon, I live in the panhandle and know I’ll need to pick my days, roughest I’d run would be about 2’ see a lot of guys running HB guides, pros, EC EVOs, and BT mosquitos. Wondering how the waterman would compare to these.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Work hard on your credit and you can finance 10k and make more on that money putting
It somewhere else. Inflation is going to be at least 4 so if you can borrow around that or less and make more on that money you aren’t paying any interest. Bingo


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

Don't pass up a B2 if you can find one. I just fished out of my old one with the guy who bought it and I miss that boat. I love my Whipray, but the B2 just drives, handles and poles so dang good. My only complaint is storage - if I kept it, I would have added bow storage with the door on the cap. It would need to be reinforced - skiff shop said it could be done, but that is too far for me (Austin, TX). I am pretty sure Kevin at Fibertex could do it.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

OliverBrewton said:


> Not quite looking for a mint condition boat, just something to put me on the water. I’ve looked through every single thread on MS for 18 waterman with 02-08 models running around 22.5-39. Although most these threads were from 2014-17 haven’t seen an older 18 waterman pop up in a long time. And with the watermans performance was wondering if any owners have used them for beachside tarpon, I live in the panhandle and know I’ll need to pick my days, roughest I’d run would be about 2’ see a lot of guys running HB guides, pros, EC EVOs, and BT mosquitos. Wondering how the waterman would compare to these.


With a waterman or a pro the beach is definitely a pick your days fishery, but I’ve been out there in a 16 foot Whipray before.


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## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

I have a 05 Gordon waterman 18 with no floor. Zero complaints. It poles skinny and I’ve run it through some pretty rough water and it handles it pretty well. Like everyone else said they carve turns and don’t slip. Had a 2 stroke Yamaha 70 on it and now 4 stroke 70, both engines are great on this hull. It definitely fishes best with 2 people but 3 is doable too. The Pros can handle 3 people better but I don’t think they draft as shallow, though they can probably handle rougher water a little better.


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## Nway93 (May 9, 2016)

There's many variations of each out there depending on the year. If you find a good deal on one in decent shape can't go wrong with either.

If shallow draft is the biggest factor an 18' waterman, b2 or older pro would be the best. My boss has a 02 pro which is really just a whipray with sponsons and that thing floats incredibly shallow, have poled it almost as shallow as my gheenoe just a little harder to muscle once it hits bottom. Rides well if you know how to use the tabs and aren't trying to run it to the pins the whole time.

For all around a good buddy of mine has a 07 whipray. From my understanding it's a professional without sponsons. Not the shallowest boat probably 7" draft since it has a 70 on the back but spins on a dime and rides great. Have had it in some very snotty stuff and stayed dry. If he ever sold I'd be very interested in it. Happens to be Kevin Mihaloff's old boat from the High In the Lowlands video, love the way it's set up.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

How does the whipray 17.8 and 16 fall into all of this the website claims a 3.5 draft loaded don’t know anything about the ride or performance seems to be a bit designed more around bones and Everglades


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## Dawhoo (Oct 27, 2015)

What ever you do… don’t finance a boat right out of high school. Financing a recreational depreciable asset especially that early in financial career is a terrible mistake (or ever).

i know you didn’t ask for this advice but those encouraging you to finance are setting you up for failure. DONT DO IT!

The quickest way to actually afford what you want is make good financial choices early in career.

i recently sold a 2007 Mitzi skiff that ran and fished great for 10k that took me from Charlotte Harbor, Biscayne Bay, Florida Bay, Mosquito Lagoon, Charleston Harbor, coastal Louisiana, etc… good cheap boats are out there that fish really well.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

Dawhoo said:


> What ever you do… don’t finance a boat right out of high school. Financing a recreational depreciable asset especially that early in financial career is a terrible mistake (or ever).
> 
> i know you didn’t ask for this advice but those encouraging you to finance are setting you up for failure. DONT DO IT!
> 
> ...


Wasn’t planning on it but thanks for the heads up these little bits of advice go a long way. Someone on a thread told me a couple months ago to open a Roth IRA account and I’ve already started putting money in.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

I


OliverBrewton said:


> How does the whipray 17.8 and 16 fall into all of this the website claims a 3.5 draft loaded don’t know anything about the ride or performance seems to be a bit designed more around bones and Everglades


Pre 2004 17.8 and Waterman are basically the same hull, different interior layout and a lot of the Watermen were minimalist no floor models.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

I had a very lightweight rigged 12’ HB pro side console and I can tell you there is no world where those boats are 3.5” loaded with two on board. We measured it I’m not guessing. It’s more like 7-8” real world loaded for fishing with two people and that is lightweight lithium batteries up front etc. for what it’s worth I really liked the boat.


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## LtShinysides (Dec 27, 2018)

K3anderson said:


> You can read about here. Chris Morejohn's history of Hells Bay Boatworks beginning till 2001


This is such a good read. Highly recommend for everyone still speculating on some of these boats. 
I think the only hell's bays floating in 3.5 are the early whips...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

CKEAT said:


> I had a very lightweight rigged 12’ HB pro side console and I can tell you there is no world where those boats are 3.5” loaded with two on board. We measured it I’m not guessing. It’s more like 7-8” real world loaded for fishing with two people and that is lightweight lithium batteries up front etc. for what it’s worth I really liked the boat.


There isn’t a true poling skiff on the market that drafts 3 1/2, 4, 4 1/2 or even 5 inches with two grown men and a load. It is just not physically possible with the length and width of these little hulls. These 4” draft claims are bare bones hulls with no one on board.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> There isn’t a true poling skiff on the market that drafts 3 1/2, 4, 4 1/2 or even 5 inches with two grown men and a load. It is just not physically possible with the length and width of these little hulls. These 4” draft claims are bare bones hulls with no one on board.


Yep and most likely with no engine or least HP possible.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> There isn’t a true poling skiff on the market that drafts 3 1/2, 4, 4 1/2 or even 5 inches with two grown men and a load. It is just not physically possible with the length and width of these little hulls. These 4” draft claims are bare bones hulls with no one on board.


Pepsi challenge








Poling in actual 4.5” measured with one person







youtube.com


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

OliverBrewton said:


> Looking at these two hulls, looking for someone who has owned or has experience with either. Which one poles skinnier, rides better, and gets up on a plane and rides skinniest.


If I was in your shoes I would buy the conchfish plans and build your own (with tunnel) using epoxy. It will be lighter, shallower, and better than any skiff OTS by anyone. In addition, you will save $$ (minus your labor) and learn how to build boats. Honestly Chris's thread tells you everything you need to know on how to do it.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

K3anderson said:


> If I was in your shoes I would buy the conchfish plans and build your own (with tunnel) using epoxy. It will be lighter, shallower, and better than any skiff OTS by anyone. In addition, you will save $$ (minus your labor) and learn how to build boats. Honestly Chris's thread tells you everything you need to know on how to do it.


Just seems like a lot of time and work that I have no idea how to do.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

K3anderson said:


> Pepsi challenge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That one person is on the front, it doesn’t show what the boat was loaded with and looks like there was a tiller handle? Not downing this, just saying I have been on an old whip 99 tiller no gunnels (bare boards), myself and the guide. He is 230 or so and I am 225 and there was no chance we even make it floating in 6” much less 4.5.

My 21’ LM II full carbon loaded with me the wife and full fishing load is a 6” boat (real world). It might be 5-5.5 with her on pole and me on casting platform.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> There isn’t a true poling skiff on the market that drafts 3 1/2, 4, 4 1/2 or even 5 inches with two grown men and a load. It is just not physically possible with the length and width of these little hulls. These 4” draft claims are bare bones hulls with no one on board.


I really just want a boat that poles, tracks, and spins very shallow. Im a small guy myself 6ft 160 the guys I fish with are about the same give or take a few pounds. I have pushed a buddy of mines 15 boston whaler which I believe drafts about 8-9 and have been very limited as to where we can access where we get out to wade the other guys who run usually a HB pro or waterman glide around in the same water we get out to wade. Love how it looks so effortless to pole where as when poling Im pouring sweat just trying to get us through these places.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

Just came to the conclusion that If im going to be spending over 20 grand on a boat might as well save more and get the best of the best instead of wishing I would have saved a little longer.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

21 meaning 2021 to clarify, it’s an 18 there is no 21 foot LMII


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

OliverBrewton said:


> I really just want a boat that poles, tracks, and spins very shallow. Im a small guy myself 6ft 160 the guys I fish with are about the same give or take a few pounds. I have pushed a buddy of mines 15 boston whaler which I believe drafts about 8-9 and have been very limited as to where we can access where we get out to wade the other guys who run usually a HB pro or waterman glide around in the same water we get out to wade. Love how it looks so effortless to pole where as when poling Im pouring sweat just trying to get us through these places.


Just about any poling skiff will pole better than a Whaler. Whalers are not poling skiffs by any stretch.


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

CKEAT said:


> That one person is on the front, it doesn’t show what the boat was loaded with and looks like there was a tiller handle? Not downing this, just saying I have been on an old whip 99 tiller no gunnels (bare boards), myself and the guide. He is 230 or so and I am 225 and there was no chance we even make it floating in 6” much less 4.5.
> 
> My 21’ LM II full carbon loaded with me the wife and full fishing load is a 6” boat (real world). It might be 5-5.5 with her on pole and me on casting platform.


That one person (me) is in the middle. Seeing is believing. And its a tunnel.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Just about any poling skiff will pole better than a Whaler. Whalers are not poling skiffs by any stretch.


agree with you completely here


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

K3anderson said:


> That one person (me) is in the middle. Seeing is believing. And its a tunnel.


And that skiff would pole even shallower had I not doubled the height of the strakes on it. It was a mistake but a unintended benefit is no slide in sharp turns. I will measure it during the negative lows with two people, but, there is nothing OTS that skinny. Even with epoxy, bagged, and CF, Chittum still requires USCG foam and other weight that a builder doesn't need to add. That weight only adds draft.


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## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

OliverBrewton said:


> Just came to the conclusion that If im going to be spending over 20 grand on a boat might as well save more and get the best of the best instead of wishing I would have saved a little longer.


This is similar to what I did for my Waterman. I saved up to what the average market was asking for the ideal boat I wanted. I then spent a year watching and searching the market for best deal and I had to act fast. Once I found the "one", it was on the lower end of the price spectrum and needed a little work but now I have what would cost others $40K and I'm in it for much less. Just have to find the unicorn out there. If you can find an older one that needs a little work would go that route.


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Man save your money and invest it. Your never gonna have a time in your life where you don’t have any expenses and opportunity to save. Skiffs are way over priced right now. If you want a true poling skiff build your own. Your handle says your in Panama City, head over to Spear Skiff and look at a Evergladez Boat kit. I think you can get a hull under 10k that you’d finish and still come out with a boat that’s gonna pole shallower than a HB Pro.









Coming Soon. Spear Boat Works Skiff Building Kits.


I am excited to announce that Spear Boatworks will be releasing "skiff building kits." We will provide a hull created in one of our molds, the materials needed to build your own cap, as well as detailed instructions (video & written). For a price list, email me at [email protected]




www.microskiff.com


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## formerWAflyfisher (Sep 5, 2008)

Or just get an 16x48 welded Jon. It’ll float shallower than anything. They don’t pole that bad either. Save your money, girls and dates get much more expensive the older you get…..


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## ElLobo (Sep 14, 2020)

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Or just get an 16x48 welded Jon. It’ll float shallower than anything. They don’t pole that bad either. Save your money, girls and dates get much more expensive the older you get…..


Depends on the girls


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## K3anderson (Jan 23, 2013)

formerWAflyfisher said:


> Man save your money and invest it. Your never gonna have a time in your life where you don’t have any expenses and opportunity to save. Skiffs are way over priced right now. If you want a true poling skiff build your own. Your handle says your in Panama City, head over to Spear Skiff and look at a Evergladez Boat kit. I think you can get a hull under 10k that you’d finish and still come out with a boat that’s gonna pole shallower than a HB Pro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally agree. That supersimpleskiffs is also building the conch hull only or finished. A used Spear poles and runs infinitely better than a Whaler. So does a 17T and a host of other ones out there.


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## Scrob (Aug 26, 2015)

OliverBrewton said:


> Wasn’t planning on it but thanks for the heads up these little bits of advice go a long way. Someone on a thread told me a couple months ago to open a Roth IRA account and I’ve already started putting money in.


hey that was me!!! awesome job dude. best thing you can do


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## Poon.Patrol (Jan 28, 2021)

You're in the right direction. Continue to work hard build up your finances and get the boat you want. Every boat eventually needs some kind of work. Make sure you prepare for that as well. Nothing better than a boat you worked so hard for and not daddy's boat.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

Scrob said:


> hey that was me!!! awesome job dude. best thing you can do


Appreciate it man!!


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

Poon.Patrol said:


> You're in the right direction. Continue to work hard build up your finances and get the boat you want. Every boat eventually needs some kind of work. Make sure you prepare for that as well. Nothing better than a boat you worked so hard for and not daddy's boat.


Yep like my finance teacher said a boat is a blackhole to which you throw your money. Been working for my friends dad on his 60 G&S beautiful boat but many hours are spent working on it to keep it working. A skiff shouldn't be as bad though.


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## Poon.Patrol (Jan 28, 2021)

I am OCD about keeping my skiff tidy. I think it says a lot about a person how well they upkeep their boat. Everyone knows what B.O.A.T stands for, however if you buy the right brand skiff you'll either make money or come out close to even when eventually selling it. 



OliverBrewton said:


> Yep like my finance teacher said a boat is a blackhole to which you throw your money. Been working for my friends dad on his 60 G&S beautiful boat but many hours are spent working on it to keep it working. A skiff shouldn't be as bad though.


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

Poon.Patrol said:


> I am OCD about keeping my skiff tidy. I think it says a lot about a person how well they upkeep their boat. Everyone knows what B.O.A.T stands for, however if you buy the right brand skiff you'll either make money or come out close to even when eventually selling it.


does this apply to used boats as well? On a brand such as hells bay or bt


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

t


OliverBrewton said:


> does this apply to used boats as well? On a brand such as hells bay or bt


First, don’t look at a skiff as an investment you’ll make money on. Very unique circumstances have caused a small number of used makes/models to appreciate largely because they are desirable, built well enough to be a solid boat even after years of use, new models have gotten crazy expensive and have a long waiting list, plus the boat market in general is crazy right now. On boats and vehicles the biggest depreciation occurs in the first couple of years new boats aren’t likely to appreciate in the short term. However even if you buy a used boat that holds its value or even increases a little, associated expenses like insurance, upkeep, upgrades, repairs etc will almost certainly negate any gain you would get. Buy a boat as a tool, something to give you some enjoyment that will be an expense. Figure out how much expense you’re willing to live with for the experience you get in return (or for revenue you can generate if you guide). Personally I need to be on the water like I need to breathe so the experience alone has a high value to me. I spent more on my boat than my vehicle, (I buy those used too). If you buy right you may not take a bath on it if you sell, but looking at it as an appreciable investment would be folly.


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## DanFromSavannah (Oct 23, 2021)

Following


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## saltyjones (Nov 1, 2021)

great thread. not trying to hijack. I think this is on topic...
newer pro vs waterman differences seem to be:

center vs side console
plumbed live well
aluminum vs galvanized trailer
price new is about 10k more for the pro
any opinions on “is it worth it“ to jump to the more expensive pro?


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## Rookiemistake (Jan 30, 2013)

Same fish different bank accounts. How much is brand name skiff worth?


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## saltyjones (Nov 1, 2021)

On the used I think there is a similar spread between a used pro vs used waterman. Although both are hard to find and depend on how old and hours and options and so on. Either would be great if you can find em. Especially one with a tunnel for TX.


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## SC on the FLY (Sep 16, 2015)

Sublime said:


> I friend brought his Waterman over years ago and we parked my B2 right beside it. Neither one of were convinced they were the same hull.


I believe the B2 was a splashed WhipRay Pro


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

saltyjones said:


> great thread. not trying to hijack. I think this is on topic...
> newer pro vs waterman differences seem to be:
> 
> center vs side console
> ...


after a little bit of research I found that the newer models hold quite a difference the waterman has spray rails that carry to the transom and the pro has a larger bow and a higher HP capacity the pro is made to run open water better but from my understanding the waterman poles better has better grip on turns and has better hole shot


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## OliverBrewton (Jul 8, 2021)

SC on the FLY said:


> I believe the B2 was a splashed WhipRay Pro


The B2 was splashed from the 16 waterman then sponsons were added


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## Waterlog (May 12, 2020)

redchaser said:


> t
> 
> First, don’t look at a skiff as an investment you’ll make money on. Very unique circumstances have caused a small number of used makes/models to appreciate largely because they are desirable, built well enough to be a solid boat even after years of use, new models have gotten crazy expensive and have a long waiting list, plus the boat market in general is crazy right now. On boats and vehicles the biggest depreciation occurs in the first couple of years new boats aren’t likely to appreciate in the short term. However even if you buy a used boat that holds its value or even increases a little, associated expenses like insurance, upkeep, upgrades, repairs etc will almost certainly negate any gain you would get. Buy a boat as a tool, something to give you some enjoyment that will be an expense. Figure out how much expense you’re willing to live with for the experience you get in return (or for revenue you can generate if you guide). Personally I need to be on the water like I need to breathe so the experience alone has a high value to me. I spent more on my boat than my vehicle, (I buy those used too). If you buy right you may not take a bath on it if you sell, but looking at it as an appreciable investment would be folly.


Well said and agree.


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## brecken (Jul 4, 2018)

OliverBrewton said:


> Not quite looking for a mint condition boat, just something to put me on the water. I’ve looked through every single thread on MS for 18 waterman with 02-08 models running around 22.5-39. Although most these threads were from 2014-17 haven’t seen an older 18 waterman pop up in a long time. And with the watermans performance was wondering if any owners have used them for beachside tarpon, I live in the panhandle and know I’ll need to pick my days, roughest I’d run would be about 2’ see a lot of guys running HB guides, pros, EC EVOs, and BT mosquitos. Wondering how the waterman would compare to these.


I fish beach side tarpon out of my 07 waterman all the time and it always blows me away on how it performs. You'll have no problem with it.


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## Matts (Sep 2, 2015)

CKEAT said:


> That one person is on the front, it doesn’t show what the boat was loaded with and looks like there was a tiller handle? Not downing this, just saying I have been on an old whip 99 tiller no gunnels (bare boards), myself and the guide. He is 230 or so and I am 225 and there was no chance we even make it floating in 6” much less 4.5.
> 
> My 21’ LM II full carbon loaded with me the wife and full fishing load is a 6” boat (real world). It might be 5-5.5 with her on pole and me on casting platform.


Totally agree with that as pertaining to my LM2 full carbon non tunnel. 6” for sure but I’ll bet close to 5” with two on board and a full 45 cooler.


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## Capt._Justin_Price (Aug 26, 2012)

I have owned and guided out of a few brands and mainly because I couldn't afford a Hellsbay initially. My waterman has been heavily used and is an 09' and performs like new. Yeah you may spend more for the quality but its worth it. The resale value on your investment alone is worth it.


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