# Belize - fly guide and angler shot



## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

https://www.newsweek.com/virginia-cardiologist-tour-guide-killed-fly-fishing-belize-1445688


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## mavdog32 (Apr 5, 2019)

Great, I have a trip booked in San pedro this November.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

yea, this is nuts. i caught my first permit on fly w mario and fished w him again a couple of years ago. super friendly, fishy guy. terrible news.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Shame to see something like that. Headed there June 30 and wont be changing my plans at all. Can happen anywhere at anytime but certainly feel bad for the family and all the good fishing guides down there. Hopefully it doesn't hurt the community.


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## backbone (Jan 4, 2016)

Shocking news!


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

I am thinking there is more to the story than they were just "fly-fishing". A number of times are thrown around but some say they went at 10am and some say even as late at 1130a. Weird. Also lists multiple gun shot wounds to body and head, I have a hard time believing someone rolled by them shooting and hit both guys multiple times in the body and head. Then some outlets say the guide was behind the wheel in the fetal position and the Dr. was in the water. Again, odd. Rumor is fishing wasn't the first priority.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

I'm sure far more homicides occurred in FL that day.


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## mightyrime (Jul 18, 2016)

sort of sounds like the guide may have had a grudge with someone local? Sounds crazy for a skiff to skiff shooting?

Life seems like it is so not precious to so many these days worldwide.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

MRichardson said:


> I'm sure far more homicides occurred in FL that day.


Probably so, but I guarantee none of them were guys out fly fishing. 

At the end of the day it's Central America. Lots of drugs make their way through these areas and many of the police are corrupt.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Maybe it wasn't over drugs but over bonefish flats.

I have felt like doing that to folks on the goon in the past...


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

When my son went into the Coast Guard I made a point of telling him that boats don’t even slow down incoming rounds... Your only defense is to be below the water line if you’re inside the boat or actually in the water.. The skiffs we all fish out of are bad places to be if someone is shooting at you.

More to say about this sort of stuff - but not on a public forum...


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

All you snowflakes better cancel all plans...
Seriously though, don’t let the media hype get to you. Live life and be happy. If you drive on the highway you are more at risk of being killed than fishing in a skiff anywhere.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

From the comments- Sick Ani: That‘s what happens as Karma to those who enjoy destroying wild life. So much fish already dead in the market and these guys go in the wild and kill more? This should happens to all humans who are hunters and destroyers of nature and wild life. Thank Karma!

If you are going somewhere with a State Department Travel Advisory Level 2 or higher practice common sense and take out travel insurance. At Level 3 just go somewhere else unless you have a local network in place. Travel Insurance with kidnapping coverage is a must in some places. Americans are a meal ticket for criminals in poorer countries. Period. Untraveled and Naive' people end up being being their victims. Not the prepared folks that know where NOT to go. 
Just like Houston, San Frantonio or any major US city. 
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...s/traveladvisories/belizetravel-advisory.html


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> All you snowflakes better cancel all plans...
> Seriously though, don’t let the media hype get to you. Live life and be happy. If you drive on the highway you are more at risk of being killed than fishing in a skiff anywhere.


That doesn't mean it isn't prudent to evaluate where you are going to take a fishing trip to spend your hard earned cash.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

ifsteve said:


> That doesn't mean it isn't prudent to evaluate where you are going to take a fishing trip to spend your hard earned cash.


Exactly.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> All you snowflakes better cancel all plans...
> Seriously though, don’t let the media hype get to you. Live life and be happy. If you drive on the highway you are more at risk of being killed than fishing in a skiff anywhere.



Anyone have tickets to the Dominican Republic?


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

According to the stories someone attempted to kill him on Saturday. They finished the job on Sunday. 

Definitely more to this story.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

el9surf said:


> Anyone have tickets to the Dominican Republic?


No, but I have some Methyl alcohol Rum leftover.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

I took my wife to Belize and fished a little back in 2010 and we had two pretty bad incidents that made me definitely never want to take her back and likely never myself either.

One was with an off duty cop that got badly out of hand. This happened on a very nice resort and the other in San Pedro. 

It is NOT worth the risk, not for my wife and the family that depends on me. 

As for dangers I cities here, your right and I don’t put myself in bad positions therefore I don’t take huge risks.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

Had another article pop up on my suggested articles. Guess there were 5 other local fisherman shot last week there in Belize. Sounded drug related but if the cartels are that active in that area I would just assume find a new vacation spot.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Yea read the NY Post article. Makes it sound like a bloodbath when in reality, 7 deaths is a slow night in Jacksonville. Better save your hard earned money to travel to other places in the US or Europe, where you are completely safe from, mass shootings, terrorist attacks, robbery, murder, kidnapping...


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## prinjm6 (May 13, 2015)

TheAdamsProject said:


> Yea read the NY Post article. Makes it sound like a bloodbath when in reality, 7 deaths is a slow night in Jacksonville. Better save your hard earned money to travel to other places in the US or Europe, where you are completely safe from, mass shootings, terrorist attacks, robbery, murder, kidnapping...


Jacksonville has twice as many people over Belize and 10 less murders so far this year.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

Well, if America is so dangerous any of us are welcome to move to Belize


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I fished in Xcalak 24 years ago and again in 2018. In 1995 we saw a small barrel with drugs floating and there was a beach full of cocaine bags. We were approached one day by the Mexican navy in a PT type boat guns drawn. I saw no other fishers that week. In 2018 we drove from Cancun. I would not do that today. I am saddened to hear of the tradgedy in Belize. I have never heard in any country of a client fly fisherman shot and killed on a panga or a flats boat. He was with his family and I don't feel he had any connection to the incident except for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have read in local Belize papers that Belizeans are concerned with recent violence over recent years. True also for parts of the Bahamas. I will still fish the Bahamas, but I will choose carefully where. Turneffe sure. Ambergris or Belize or most of Mexico, probably not.


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## el9surf (Dec 23, 2008)

I saw the ny post article but went searching for a more credible source. Found some local articles from Belize. From what I was able to gather even the locals seem worried about the violence.


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## EdK13 (Oct 3, 2013)

TheAdamsProject said:


> Yea read the NY Post article. Makes it sound like a bloodbath when in reality, 7 deaths is a slow night in Jacksonville. Better save your hard earned money to travel to other places in the US or Europe, where you are completely safe from, mass shootings, terrorist attacks, robbery, murder, kidnapping...


PeR cApPiTa- Its Complicated, I know.


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## 8w8n8 (Sep 30, 2017)

… bummer … sounds like the good doctor was a _victim of circumstance … _who knows what the guide was into. Belize decriminalized (read legalized) marijuana in late 2017 (less than 10 grams on private property) … there's the demand. It doesn't take a wizard to figure out who's supplying the stuff. Then there's the middleman. We're all shocked and surprised when one of our local longtime business retailer, wholesaler, manager, storekeeper, etc., is involved in a big bust and makes the front page for a week. No different anywhere else … especially an international tourist destination with _beaucoup dinero … _its the daily-double. I don't know that guide and I haven't fished San Pedro in 4 or 5 years … maybe he was a victim of circumstance, too. This year in Placencia, while walking the sidewalk, my wife and I could see people smoking pot out in the open and smell it all the time … but its accepted now, its legal### (my bad) I mean decriminalized … and opens the gates for other stuff. Sure, it was all there before, but not at the scale it is now. Maybe there's more to the May 8th Belizean vote on the Guatemalan border dispute than meets the eye.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

When 2 people are shot in a drug-related dust up I assume they are both involved in drug-related activities. 

The fact that one is an American, or a doctor, and the other is not does not mean that he may not have been involved in some way. Who knows what happened. But c'mon, these things are never in a vacuum.


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## 7WT (Feb 12, 2016)

I do not find any indication that Dr. Gary Swank was involved in drug related activities at all. 

ROANOKE, Va. - The family of Roanoke doctor, Gary Swank, who was found murdered in San Pedro, Belize released a statement Tuesday.


"We are heartbroken at the loss of our incredible husband and devoted father Gary Swank, M.D., who we will forever cherish. His senseless murder has left us to mourn a purposeful life ended too soon. 

__
_*MORE HEADLINES*
Police tell Belizean media that murdered Roanoke doctor was 'collateral damage'
Roanoke doctor, tour guide found murdered in Belize
Gary was an incredibly driven individual, both professionally and personally, and we were blessed to have been a part of his life. His death will be felt throughout the community, as he was a physician, caregiver, teacher, mentor, avid outdoorsman, neighbor, colleague, and friend to many. 

We are grateful for the overwhelming love shown by family, friends, patients and strangers. For the countless prayers, flowers, and phone calls – thank you from the bottom of our hearts.

As we take time to grieve this unbelievable loss, we will not be doing any media interviews. Please respect our privacy during this difficult time."


According to Breaking Belize News, authorities believe that Dr. Gary Swank was murdered because he was a witness to the murder of his tour guide, Mario Graniel. 

Swank, 53, was a cardiologist at Carilion Clinic and was on a fly fishing expedition. He had recently been promoted to associate professor at the Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine.

_


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

Good to know we have a forum full of detectives that can solve crimes in other countries so quickly.


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## CKEAT (Aug 26, 2015)

The two situations that I was in could have very easily landed me in Jail or dead. would rather be either of those options here with our laws and our system. By the way, both middle of day in broad daylight. 

No telling what it would have looked like and I can guarantee I wasn’t chasing drugs.

Bottom line is, be diligent, do research, assess risk and if it’s worth it to you, get after it.


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

I fished in Belize last December, in Cuba in May, will be in Mexico at the end of July, and then Guatemala in December. Hands down sketchiest part of my year so far was time spent in New Orleans in April. Planning to go back in August, because the fishing was great, but am definitely more apprehensive about that place than either Mexico or Guatemala or frankly any of the overwhelming majority of “third world” locations I have visited over the years. A lot of people in this country tend to freak out about other countries, but ignore that a lot of our major cities are not exactly the safest places on Earth. But then life has all sorts of risks—some of which we balance against benefits and others that we merely assume with blissful ignorance. At the end of the day, I love to fly fish and I love to travel. To quote my good friend Bodhi:

“If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.”


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

No body solved anything. Just expressed their suspicions based on life experience.


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## 8w8n8 (Sep 30, 2017)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> Good to know we have a forum full of detectives that can solve crimes in other countries so quickly.


… might as well try to solve it … the police depts. in these 3rd world towns and villages know very little about preserving a crime scene (albeit, it did take place around water), how to locate witnesses, or other pertinent factors … and I'm not placing all the blame on the officer(s) in these towns … hell, they're living in the 1950s compared to the training, equipment, labs, etc., that their counterpart in the US has access to … and as for as the doctor being involved, sure maybe, I guess anything's possible …


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2019)

Sardina said:


> I fished in Belize last December, in Cuba in May, will be in Mexico at the end of July, and then Guatemala in December. Hands down sketchiest part of my year so far was time spent in New Orleans in April. Planning to go back in August, because the fishing was great, but am definitely more apprehensive about that place than either Mexico or Guatemala or frankly any of the overwhelming majority of “third world” locations I have visited over the years. A lot of people in this country tend to freak out about other countries, but ignore that a lot of our major cities are not exactly the safest places on Earth. But then life has all sorts of risks—some of which we balance against benefits and others that we merely assume with blissful ignorance. At the end of the day, I love to fly fish and I love to travel. To quote my good friend Bodhi:
> 
> “If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.”


I agree. Having fished Mexico and Belize several times, I found it pays to be diligent and not take unnecessary risks, but they still don’t hold a candle to New Orleans. When we fished south of the city in May, we came in for dinner only once and made sure we were back at the lodge before dark. I’d rather walk through the bush in Africa than spend time in many of America’s cities after dark!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Greg Lyles said:


> I agree. Having fished Mexico and Belize several times, I found it pays to be diligent and not take unnecessary risks, but they still don’t hold a candle to New Orleans. When we fished south of the city in May, we came in for dinner only once and made sure we were back at the lodge before dark. I’d rather walk through the bush in Africa than spend time in many of America’s cities after dark!


You can’t live in fear. They smell it.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Sardina said:


> I fished in Belize last December, in Cuba in May, will be in Mexico at the end of July, and then Guatemala in December. Hands down sketchiest part of my year so far was time spent in New Orleans in April. Planning to go back in August, because the fishing was great, but am definitely more apprehensive about that place than either Mexico or Guatemala or frankly any of the overwhelming majority of “third world” locations I have visited over the years. A lot of people in this country tend to freak out about other countries, but ignore that a lot of our major cities are not exactly the safest places on Earth. But then life has all sorts of risks—some of which we balance against benefits and others that we merely assume with blissful ignorance. At the end of the day, I love to fly fish and I love to travel. To quote my good friend Bodhi:
> 
> “If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.”


But there is a huge difference. You can come fishing in LA and not have anything to do with NOLA or being in a sketchy situation unless you choose to.


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

ifsteve said:


> But there is a huge difference. You can come fishing in LA and not have anything to do with NOLA or being in a sketchy situation unless you choose to.


‘Cause Hopedale’s not sketchy??? LOL


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sardina said:


> ‘Cause Hopedale’s not sketchy??? LOL


My kind of people


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## Cronced (Nov 18, 2016)

I fished in Jupiter this past week. The tarpon were all on the small side, but I lived.


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## VB Fly Fisher (Mar 23, 2018)

I’m down here now fishing for the week. Definitely a “wrong place at the wrong time” type deal for the Dr. Word is that it was over drug territory on the water or something rather. Apparently there is a lot of water that is searched for bales that have been dumped at some point. In other news...after fishing Grand Bahama in November and Cuba in February Belize doesn’t come close to comparison.


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## sidelock (Jan 31, 2011)

VB Fly Fisher said:


> I’m down here now fishing for the week. Definitely a “wrong place at the wrong time” type deal for the Dr. Word is that it was over drug territory on the water or something rather. Apparently there is a lot of water that is searched for bales that have been dumped at some point. In other news...after fishing Grand Bahama in November and Cuba in February Belize doesn’t come close to comparison.


How so ?


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## VB Fly Fisher (Mar 23, 2018)

sidelock said:


> How so ?


Bigger bones in Bahamas and the fishery in Cuba is incredible. Monster bones, lots of shots at Tarpon and both Grand Bahama and Cuba doesn’t have nearly the pressure of Belize. There are plenty of opportunities here in Belize, but aside from Permit, just not the same amount or quality of fish.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Maybe they told him they thought his Patagonia flatbill made him look like a googan.


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## No Bait / Lures Only (Apr 10, 2011)

Sardina said:


> ‘Cause Hopedale’s not sketchy??? LOL


What's the issues there that bothers u?


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## 8w8n8 (Sep 30, 2017)

https://www.sanpedrosun.com/crime/2...-double-murder-prime-murder-suspect-released/

… article states tourist cancellations ongoing because of this double-murder … I personally don't think the vacation retractions are because of the double-murders, its because the Dr. (an innocent bystander) was murdered … San Pedro better be thankful the Dr's. wife wasn't with him that morning otherwise Ambergris Caye would be a tourist ghost-town ... for the next 5 years.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Hopefully after seeing what a single murder can cause, Belizean authorities will take steps to end this with great prejudice. They will end up in a mess like the DR.


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

We have been here all week. It feels safe, plenty of police on patrol. The murder was not drug related and I will be happy to discuss what I heard via PM To keep the bickering to minimum. The bonefish are plentiful and had two good guide days well into double digit bonefish count plus a couple permit and the DIY had been lights out since the sargassum weed was blown out due to a recent strong north wind. My buddy throwing the bonefish jigs on light tackle and I with a fly caught 31 bonefish and a permit today from the golf cart while the girls were at the pool bar. Each afternoon we landed 4-5 fish behind the house. The island is like little new york now compared to 10yrs ago. If it didn't hurt so many families, a little drop in tourism would be nice. Kind of like florida. The construction here is crazy


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

Thought this was an interesting listing of the world's most dangerous cities as measured by their homicide rate. Lot's of great fishing locations in there, unfortunately.

Rank City Country Homicide Rate (Per 100,000)
1 Los Cabos Mexico 111.33
2 Caracas Venezuela 111.19
3 Acapulco Mexico 106.63
4 Natal Brazil 102.56
5 Tijuana Mexico 100.77
6 La Paz Mexico 84.79
7 Fortaleza Brazil 83.48
8 Ciudad Victoria Mexico 83.32
9 Ciudad Guyana Venezuela 80.28
10 Belem Brazil 71.38
11 Vitoria da Conquista Brazil 70.26
12 Culiacan Mexico 70.10
13 St. Louis United States 65.83
14 Maceio Brazil 63.94
15 Cape Town South Africa 62.25
16 Kingston Jamaica 59.71
17 San Salvador El Salvador 59.06
18 Aracaju Brazil 58.88
19 Feira de Santana Brazil 58.81
20 Ciudad Juárez Mexico 56.16
21 Baltimore United States 55.48
22 Recife Brazil 54.96
23 Maturin Venezuela 54.43
24 Guatemala City Guatemala 53.49
25 Salvador Brazil 51.58
26 San Pedro Sula Honduras 51.18
27 Valencia Venezuela 49.74
28 Cali Colombia 49.59
29 Chihuahua Mexico 49.48
30 Joao Pessoa Brazil 49.17
31 Obregon Mexico 48.96
32 San Juan Puerto Rico 48.70
33 Barquisimeto Venezuela 48.23
34 Manaus Brazil 48.07
35 Distrito Central Honduras 48.00
36 Tepic Mexico 47.09
37 Palmira Colombia 46.65
38 Reynosa Mexico 41.95
39 Porto Alegre Brazil 40.96
40 Macapa Brazil 40.24
41 New Orleans United States 40.10
42 Detroit United States 39.69
43 Mazatlan Mexico 39.32
44 Durban South Africa 38.12
45 Campos dos Goytacazes Brazil 37.53
46 Nelson Mandela Bay South Africa 37.53
47 Campina Grande Brazil 37.29
48 Teresina Brazil 37.05
49 Vitoria Brazil 36.07
50 Cucuta Colombia 34.78

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html


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## tx8er (Jun 3, 2016)

Sardina said:


> Thought this was an interesting listing of the world's most dangerous cities as measured by their homicide rate. Lot's of great fishing locations in there, unfortunately.
> 
> Rank City Country Homicide Rate (Per 100,000)
> 1 Los Cabos Mexico 111.33
> ...


I AM NOT going to Brazil anytime soon.


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

tx8er said:


> I AM NOT going to Brazil anytime soon.


No?


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## tx8er (Jun 3, 2016)

Sardina said:


> View attachment 82560
> 
> 
> No?


NFW!


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## 8w8n8 (Sep 30, 2017)

Sardina said:


> Thought this was an interesting listing of the world's most dangerous cities as measured by their homicide rate. Lot's of great fishing locations in there, unfortunately.
> 
> Rank City Country Homicide Rate (Per 100,000)
> 1 Los Cabos Mexico 111.33
> ...


… muy interesante mi amigo norteamericano … Los Cabos & La Paz ???, man I would of lost that bar bet … and St. Louie #13, not that I'll be fly fishing for catfish anytime soon in front of the Gateway Arch, but I always visit the boys at Feather-Craft when I'm in town ...


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## coconutgroves (Sep 23, 2013)

WOW. Really surprised at some of the comments here that paint Belize as a violent place that isn't safe for travel, and also the assumptions around what happened. I knew Mario pretty well and sent people to fish with him numerous times.

I go to Belize once a year. Sometimes more. I've been well over a dozen times with one year spending about over a month there. I have fished and stayed all up and down the coast from Ambergris to Punta Gorda. I have never ONCE been faced with any type of hostility or been in a dangerous situation. I've also taken larger groups with attractive women - again, no issues. On trips with just my wife, she will ride the bike around town, go to beach, go on her own while I fish - again, never an issue. We don't stay in safe mega resorts, we typically rent Airbnb, or small bungalows. I've ridden bikes late at night even through some of the shadier parts of the towns.

I fished with Mario multiple times, sometimes for a week straight. He was a good guy, but he also did not take any shit from anyone. Over a decade ago, on Ambergris we pulled up lagoon side and there were tarpon rolling by the docks. I joked about getting my rod out and casting to the fish and I was told by the water taxi guy that the tarpon were the guy's pets who lived right across from the dock and that he'd shoot anyone who fished for them. A few years later, Mario had us meet him at his house to leave from his dock - it was the same dock with rolling tarpon. I told him about this and he joked "yep, I'd shoot your ass" but with a smile on his face.

The doctor donated his time down in Belize to healthcare and was an unfortunate victim in this. Some of the comments that he was involved in some shady business are pure speculation. But ultimately, Belize is a safe place with wonderful, friendly people. I've met so many locals who converse like they are friends that are happy to have you over to their place. Never once have I felt disrespected, threatened or not wanted. Ok, there was a jerk pilot on Tropic Air once, but that guy was a jerk to everyone. 

I work in downtown Austin and I am more alert walking around there, even for lunch, than I am when in Belize. Take that for what it's worth. Granted, there are bad parts of Belize City people should avoid, but I have also been in parts of Dangriga and Punta Gorda that were shady without any issue. The media paints a negative image because that is what gets views and clicks, especially these days.

RIP Mario - thanks for the fun tarpon trips. But you still owe me a bonefishing trip. For the record, Mario would go out in gale force winds to chase tarpon. He loved them, but you really had to bend his arm for to go for bones, and even then, he wouldn't leave early for them.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

I went to Belize once on a live aboard charter. The "draw bridge operators" failed to show up for work Saturday afternoon so we were stuck in Belize City overnight. Captain said it was fine to do downtown as long as we stayed within three blocks. So we went to a bar. Nobody there but the bartender and cocktail waitress. Then some dude comes in looking to get us to party. Bartender came over and kicked the guy out. Pretty soon the dude comes back and comes over to our table and just stands there staring at us not saying a word. Bartender comes over a second time and kicks the dude out. Then he tells us the dude was really bad news and we should leave out the side door and go back to our hotel (he didn't know we were staying on a boat). So we got up to leave and on the way out said what's the story with that dude. Bartender told said he just got out of jail last week. Was in there for a year for murder! One freaking year in jail.

Just be careful out there and pay attention to the State Department webiste on travel restrictions.


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## MRichardson (May 27, 2010)

Can you imagine how overcrowded Brazil would be if they weren't always killing each other?


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## Bonecracker (Mar 29, 2007)

coconutgroves said:


> WOW. Really surprised at some of the comments here that paint Belize as a violent place that isn't safe for travel, and also the assumptions around what happened. I knew Mario pretty well and sent people to fish with him numerous times.
> 
> I go to Belize once a year. Sometimes more. I've been well over a dozen times with one year spending about over a month there. I have fished and stayed all up and down the coast from Ambergris to Punta Gorda. I have never ONCE been faced with any type of hostility or been in a dangerous situation. I've also taken larger groups with attractive women - again, no issues. On trips with just my wife, she will ride the bike around town, go to beach, go on her own while I fish - again, never an issue. We don't stay in safe mega resorts, we typically rent Airbnb, or small bungalows. I've ridden bikes late at night even through some of the shadier parts of the towns.
> 
> ...


Sent you a PM Coconutgroves!


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

Sardina said:


> Thought this was an interesting listing of the world's most dangerous cities as measured by their homicide rate. Lot's of great fishing locations in there, unfortunately.
> 
> Rank City Country Homicide Rate (Per 100,000)
> 1 Los Cabos Mexico 111.33
> ...


Great point^
Keep in mind that's homicide rate, not shot/stabbed/beaten up and lived rate. I did some research on this recently after spending a few days in St. Louis, and read a few articles. One of the articles pointed out that when you consider a few things.

How well trained our first responders/paramedics are (similar training to battlefield medics).
Air ambulance availability.
Response times to calls. 
Trauma units in hospitals. 
Skilled trauma surgeons (multiple in large cities in each hospital). 
And just generally how good we are at keeping people alive with our medical system and response times.

When you take all of that into account compared to the other places on the list, it really shows you how bad St. Louis area really is. Without our medical infrastructure it would be WAY higher on that list.


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## Scott Kor (Feb 3, 2019)

8w8n8 said:


> … muy interesante mi amigo norteamericano … Los Cabos & La Paz ???, man I would of lost that bar bet … and St. Louie #13, not that I'll be fly fishing for catfish anytime soon in front of the Gateway Arch, but I always visit the boys at Feather-Craft when I'm in town ...


Agreed, St Louis was a surprise. I would have thought Chicago first, but now I realize that my assumptions are based on today's politically motivated media.


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

In Punta Allen, Mexico right now. Feelin’ Pretty safe. Unless I succumb to sunburn or margarita poisoning....


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## TheAdamsProject (Oct 29, 2007)

Sardina said:


> In Punta Allen, Mexico right now. Feelin’ Pretty safe. Unless I succumb to sunburn or margarita poisoning....
> View attachment 86046


Awesome! Love grand slam, especially in the summer! Good luck!


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