# Deck Material???



## fish4reds (Mar 14, 2008)

*I am thinking about building a back/poling deck flush with the back seat of my canoe. What I am looking for is the best type of materail, lightest and most durable. 
Curius to see what everyones thoughts are. Oh, and it will be glassed in and painted no mater what the materal.
Austin*


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

1/2 inch birch plywood sealed with a layer of 6 ounce fiberglass cloth
and epoxy, then painted with non-skid interlux

that's my vote...


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## fish4reds (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks on the birch idea.

Another question I want to add to this:

What is the difference between the red fiberglass resin/epoxy and the light brown resin/epoxy?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> Epoxy resin is known in the marine industry for its incredible toughness and bonding strength.  Quality epoxy resins stick to other materials with 2,000-p.s.i. vs. only 500-p.s.i. for vinylester resins and even less for polyesters.  In areas that must be able to flex and strain WITH the fibers  without micro-fracturing, epoxy resins offer much greater capability. Cured epoxy tends to be very resistant to moisture absorption.  Epoxy resin will bond dissimilar or already-cured materials which makes repair work that is  very reliable and strong.  Epoxy actually bonds to all sorts of fibers very well and also offers excellent results in repair-ability when it is used to bond two different materials together. Initally, epoxy resin is much more difficult to work with and requires additional skill by the technicians who handle it.
> 
> Vinylester resins are stronger than polyester resins and cheaper than epoxy resins. Vinylester resins utilize a polyester resin type of cross-linking molecules in the bonding process.  Vinylester is a hybrid form of polyester resin which has been toughened with epoxy molecules within the main moleculer structure.  Vinyester resins offer better resistance to moisture absorption than polyester resins but it's downside is in the use of liquid styrene to thin it out (not good to breath that stuff) and its sensitivity to atmospheric moisture and temperature.  Sometimes it won't cure if the atmospheric conditions are not right.  It also has difficulty in bonding dissimilar and already-cured materials.  It is not unusual for repair patches on vinylester resin canoes to delaminate or peel off.   As vinylester resin ages, it becomes a different resin (due to it's continual curing as it ages) so new vinylester resin sometimes resists bonding to your older canoe, or will bond and then later peel off at a bad time. It is also known that vinylester resins bond very well to fiberglass, but offer a poor bond to kevlar and carbon fibers due to the nature of those two more exotic fibers.  Due to the touchy nature of vinylester resin, careful surface preparation is necessary if reasonable adhesion is desired for any repair work.
> 
> Polyester resin is the cheapest resin available in the marine industry and offers the poorest adhesion, has the highest water absorption, highest shrinkage, and high VOC's.  Polyester resin is only compatible with fiberglass fibers and is best suited to building things that are not weight sensitive.  It is also not tough and fractures easily. Polyesters tend to end up with micro-cracks and are tough to re-bond and suffer from osmotic blistering when untreated by an epoxy resin barrier to water.  This is really cheap stuff.



After building the Grass Slipper (see post "Start from Scratch")
I will never use anything but epoxy.
Easy to work with, stronger, waterproof.


About the red fiberglass,
that is the result of using a chopper gun to apply fiberglass.
Not the strongest way to build with fiberglass.
Just faster and less expensive to work with.

see info here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ileMYXGZ3OQC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=red+thread+chopper+gun&source=bl&ots=GyynPZ-ojV&sig=NeJgDaFOmDO060d7ekm_bG2wmMM&hl=en&ei=NoOtSaf8NJ6DtwfPtIX-BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> 1/2 inch birch plywood sealed with a layer of 6 ounce fiberglass cloth
> and epoxy, then painted with non-skid interlux
> 
> that's my vote...


Why not 2 pieces of 1/4" Luan plywood laminated (for a nominal 1/2") with 3mm Sea Dek applied in leiu of the nonskid?


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## fish4reds (Mar 14, 2008)

So, epoxy resin combined w/ fiberglass mat is the better way to go. 
Thanks, now back to deck materials


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

> SkiffShop says: Why not 2 pieces of 1/4" Luan plywood laminated (for a nominal 1/2") with 3mm Sea Dek applied in lieu of the nonskid?


 ;D  That'd work wouldn't it. Exterior grade luan is less expensive than birch.
Still going to have to seal it either way, and Sea-Dek would look sharp.

Not mat, 6 ounce fiberglass tooling cloth to strengthen and seal the wood.
Mat is a filler materal composed of short fibers. The tooling cloth is stronger.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

> > SkiffShop says: Why not 2 pieces of 1/4" Luan plywood laminated (for a nominal 1/2") with 3mm Sea Dek applied in lieu of the nonskid?
> 
> 
> ;D  That'd work wouldn't it. Exterior grade luan is less expensive than birch.
> ...


 [smiley=1-thumbsup3.gif]


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## OSWLD (Apr 20, 2008)

a lot of times the red you see in resin is a dye the put in the hardener so you can see how hot your mixture is.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> a lot of times the red you see in resin is a dye the put in the hardener so you can see how hot your mixture is.



That's what I was going to say. 

What about using starboard for the decking material? I've seen many people use it on the FS forum.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Starboard, this I know, not much will stick to starboard.
So if you are going to try to fiberglass over starboard, good luck.

http://www.kingplastic.com/InfoCenter/glue.aspx


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## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

Did you say deck on a canoe? :-/


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## fish4reds (Mar 14, 2008)

> Did you say deck on a canoe? :-/


*Yes, just to extend the rear seat back for a larger polling platform.*


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## tailchaser (Mar 16, 2008)

*NOTHING* sticks to starboard.. The only product that even claims to somewhat adhere is lifecaulk.. not even 5200.. or epoxy resins


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> *NOTHING* sticks to starboard..  The only product that even claims to somewhat adhere is lifecaulk.. not even 5200.. or epoxy resins


Wow, I had no idea. I had seen a build up of a Carolina Skiff years ago on FS forum where they had said that they made the whole front deck out of starboard and glassed it in. I had no clue what starboard was at the time. Heck, I didn't even know exactly what starboard was until after this thread. I actually looked up on it to see exactly what it is.


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## flaco (Feb 14, 2007)

> > a lot of times the red you see in resin is a dye the put in the hardener so you can see how hot your mixture is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why would you want to glass over starboard anyway? Just cut it to size and you're good to go... It's heavy though.


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## mark_gardner (Mar 18, 2009)

just wondering why you guys are leaning to the birch? what about good old marine plywood?


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Weighs less, costs less, easier to obtain.


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

Starboard is a heavier material given the same relative size as most woods. 

Put me down for the laminuated luan idea. In building my boat, I am leaning toward laminated luan wherever feasible (decks, floors, etc) for it's strength to weight ratio. Very cheap too, on sale at Lowe's for $10/sheet right now. Pick a good piece for the stack, one sheet would be plenty. 

Epoxy is the way to go if you ask me.


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

Good article here:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/comparing-cost-and-weight-of-flat-panels/


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

Neat video too

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/applying-fabrics/


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## kuzus (Apr 23, 2009)

> Thanks on the birch idea.
> 
> Another question I want to add to this:
> 
> What is the difference between the red fiberglass resin/epoxy and the light brown resin/epoxy?


If you are talking strickly about epoxy, the different activator sides vary in color (darkness). The epoxy resin and activator are also different colors.

Polyester resins also vary in color based on their chemical makeup and can also vary in color from batch to batch.

In either case, color is not necessarily an indicator of quality,


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## kuzus (Apr 23, 2009)

If you are not worried about screw retention, then a lightweight polyurethane board laminated with fiberglass would be a good way to go. If you aren't worried about weight, wood will work.


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## The_Skiff_Shop (Oct 28, 2008)

Welcome aboard FCR.  

You and Brett play nicely now. ;D ;D ;D


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

I was taught at an early age:
Never argue with anyone about a topic in their area of expertise.
          Instead, ask questions and learn!


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## kuzus (Apr 23, 2009)

There are way too many guys (and girls) who have been in the industry much longer than me for me to call myself an expert. I appreciate the respect though. I would venture to guess Brett might have more epoxy knowledge than I do, but I have a pretty good grasp on most of the materials used for building and repairing boats. I am not afraid to admit when I don't know something, but most times I can find out the answer in short order. When people are counting on you to help them make their living, you don't want to BS your way through their questions.


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

FCR is my kinda guy, welcome aboard!


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## kuzus (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks. Nice flag!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

About starboard.... the one area where starboard shines is for trim or mounting pads. Consider it a replacement material where you would have used teak or mahogany to make mounting pads for anything from a compass to a shift/throttle mounting... Yes, it's heavy --but cuts, routes, drills, just like wood. Can be nicely shaped and polished, best of all never deteriorates at all. Install it and twenty years later it won't look much different than when it was new. I'm fond of using the black version for things like knife brackets, etc. If you use a boat hard, day after day, trim items that won't ever need any maintenance are very attractive.


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