# Project ItchySkin 14' ( We will need some help along the way :D )



## Un-shore (Sep 27, 2007)

Hello and welcome. You really did jump in with both feet. I only have a few minutes right now so a few simple suggestions.

drain, yes. 

to strengthen the hull you could glass in a sheet of plywood in the flat part of the hull or  use a stringer system.

Epoxy for everything.


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## cojo_69 (Jul 7, 2008)

God bless you for giving an old boat a good home. Now give it hell and do her up nice. [smiley=good-vs-evil.gif]


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## okchris (Sep 17, 2007)

you guys dont mess around!! - just picked it up on saturday, and you are working well into the night! im sure you are itchy. here's my 2 cents, although I suck at boat building:
1. wood filler or maybe coloidal silica mixed with epoxy for filler
4. better primer, paint, and prep = better finished product, maybe even high build epoxy primer
5. outside last, there will be lots of moving and mess once you start the inside work
11. Hell YES on the drain now that I think about it!! drain kits/plugs are cheap and will save you from some profanity in the future


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

Rub rail strips will really strengthen the sides. Just make sure you have teh sides in the position you want them, because once you glue the strips on, it'll be very rigid in that postion.



















More info on the rubrail strip process here.

http://picasaweb.google.com/microangler/TheSawdustSkiffTheBeginning#

Drain plug? Most definitely, you'll cuss yourself later for not spending a few minutes on it now.

Lots of options for fillers, it really depends on what you are filling. Fillets, glue, fairing, etc, can be made from different and better fillers. 

Cool project, you're off to a good start.


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks guys  .. Well before considering putting epoxy or fiberglass on the inside , I will need to putty up some stuff , I am afraid if i get a VERY VERY smooth through out finish on the old raw fiber glass that I will have nothing left other than a paper boat. So for the inside what should I use as the filler? 

Since as of right now thats where we are going to start. I assume we will at least get that tackled in the next week and once it looks a lil more "clean" get a better idea. 

( Chris so far we have counted 4 different color paints hehe )


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

Epoxy and microballons is a strong lightweight filler.
Especially if you are going to glass over it.
Easy to sand also.


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

Brett can you do my home work? 


So this stuff?

http://cgi.ebay.com/3M-Marine-Premium-Filler-Vinyl-Ester-Pint_W0QQitemZ300117538531QQihZ020QQcategoryZ26197QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

After working with epoxy for 6 months,
I'll never use vinylester or polyester resins again.
Epoxy is stronger, waterproof, and easier to work with.

The different additives to make fillers:

I'd recommend the microballoons and a 2 part epoxy mix.

http://www.masepoxies.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=prodbrws.publicdetail&productid=69481


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks brett  I am going to swing by boaters world weds and pick up some of that filler . If not the chain stores of bens auto body might have it and a better 2 part epoxy ( probably all comes from the same place anyway ) 

Guess we are going to remove the rear transom , that should be a major job putting the new one in there. keeping shape and getting it to apply well. as i would like to not have to much overlapping of fiber glass on the outside since i have to sand it down to be smooth with the bottom of the hull.

You guys are the best thanks


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## B.Lee (Apr 29, 2008)

Don't worry too much about getting the inside of your bare hull perfectly smooth yet. Any surface you'll be building on just needs the high points ground off, so your glass cloth will lay flat. Once your inner structure is all in place and glassed in, then you can worry about fairing the finished surfaces as smooth as you want. 

If you grind a lot of glass out of the inside smoothing it out, you may need to add some back in to retain the same strength it had before grinding. 

Don't get too carried away with the grinder.


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

I don't know anything about this but what about glassing in foam to strengthen the walls?


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

well we are going to add a couple layers of 6oz fiber glass most likely , Then I will spray a couple gallons of spray epoxy . then the runners etc filled with a 2 part foam.

Reason being as it stands it is very thin , a small impact would crack this thing .


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

Sounds like the old highsider I was going to restore...


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

> Sounds like the old highsider I was going to restore...



We debated doing a gheenoe but we missed out on 1 that was here with a broke transom and the other ones we saw did not have a title . Currently we are running a little flat back crap canoe thats not registered and even though the coasties have past us and just brushed it off we rather not take the chance anymore. 

So we are about to sand it guys and get rid of some of the excess resin and lumps and such. What grit do you think we should go with ( electric sanders ( block type / mouse type ) i also have a couple silicone sanding blocks. 

also what would be the suggestion on the live well holes , we are pretty sure there is a gap between the 2 layers . should we sand out the first and then redo the glassing and epoxy of the holes or go another route?

( we are not 100% sure how far the layers are spaced or if they are even spaced at all )


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

60 grit will do the job, and shouldn't gum up too rapidly.
A stiff plastic bristle brush will clean the sandpaper of buildup.
Lets you make use of a sheet longer.
Use electric for large areas, hand and blocks for small irregular areas.
Don't overdo it. Remove the paint and gelcoat, leave the fiberglass.

I don't like gaps between laminations, one of those layers needs to
be cut or sanded back, then reglassed, to eliminate the weak spot.


Instead of cutting off the transom,
how about installing bouyancy sponsons to the transom,
port and starboard of the outboard.


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

Hey Brett , we were thinking about going with something like this as the final design. 











We are going to try to get it very sleek looking .


*Forgot to mention

The outside I should have no problem with ive painted tons of cars etc , so the prep work shouldnt be that bad .. I have just never had to worry about boyancy etc on a car hehehe.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

That's a workable setup.
You might want to extend the rear deck seating a bit farther forward.
With 2 passengers, the center of gravity will be so far aft, the hull
will run dangerously bow high.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

Looks good. Are you going to add the pods on the transom like in the picture?


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

> Looks good. Are you going to add the pods on the transom like in the picture?



Thats our plan , Both of us have different ideas on how to go about things . but both of us have agreed we would like to set the transom and rear deck in the fashion . 

Tried 100 grit today , wasnt even putting a dent in it . My friend managed to smooth out the drain tunnel a little more . We found more work which isnt exactly "nice" .

I am still kind of confused how we will get the inside smooth , We had found fiber glass over top of caulk .. not exactly going to bond well heh.

Will try 50 or 80 grit tomorrow if they does not remove all the excess dripped epoxy and previous bad fiberglassing job I am not sure what we will do . I have been debating just fixing the bad repair jobs and either paying for the 129 bucks of 2 gallons of spray epoxy or "who knows" for someone to spray fiberglass .


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## rkmurphy (Nov 2, 2008)

You said you have an air tool system so why not do it yourself? Although, the gun ain't cheap...

http://www.fibreglast.com/showproducts-category-Fiberglass+Gun+Roving+and+Chopper+Gun-98.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280220171650&ih=018&category=75564&_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%252BS%252BIA%26itu%3DUCC%252BCSP%252BUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D8%26ps%3D35


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

In the past I've spent 6-8 hours using 36 grit discs
on a heavy grinder to smooth out a botched glass job.
It takes what it takes. Do the job right.
Don't glass or epoxy over a weak base layer.

Hand layup will produce a stronger smoother layup.


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## aaronshore (Aug 24, 2007)

> Looks good. Are you going to add the pods on the transom like in the picture?


Those are called sponsons.


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

Brett , were you using the larger discs on a rotor type similar to say a buffer . or a flap type wheel like on a grinder. 

id like to start some of the work tomorrow .


And we did how ever find out if there was any kind of layer gap on the original fiber glass . There wasnt but I didnt manage to see the ground and go "ok we have another patch to fill" 


Any idea on how companies gauge the measurements to add the back of the boat and recessed transom? im not sure if there is some method as to how long it should be or how wide . 

thanks you guys have been really helpful and kind .


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

> Brett , were you using the larger discs on a rotor type similar to say a buffer . or a flap type wheel like on a grinder.
> 
> id like to start some of the work tomorrow .
> 
> ...



That does sound much easier if I'm getting you right, but I would have figured to actually extend the sponsons(thanks for the correction aaron, I was unsure because I've heard people call them both) on the back to make the hull longer. I figure it'll also draft less because the added length. I could be completely wrong though. I'm not an engineer by any means.


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## Brett (Jul 16, 2008)

This is what I use on my serious projects:

http://www.amazon.com/Northern-Industrial-Tools-Grinder-4-5in/dp/B0000AX6QE/ref=sr_1_85?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1237984684&sr=1-85

Sponson size is determined by hanging your motor on the transom.
Turn the motor all the way one direction to determine clearance that side.
Then turn the other direction to see clearance the other side.
End of sponson is end of prop more or less.


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## Frank_Sebastian (Oct 15, 2007)

In regard to grinding, here is what I do (have done for many years now) I buy a cheap grinder, i.e. Harbor Freight special, then buy a hard rubber sanding pad. There are two types of mandrels. one is metric and the other is s.a.e. Buy the one that fits the threads on your grinder. I buy the sanding disks at Alpha or Ace Hardware stores. They have it as course as 16 grit. I would start with it as your boat is very rough. Once the big lumps and chunks are manageable switch to a finer grit, say 36 and then 80. As you get close to being right what you want you can spray on a little quick dry paint. It will magnify the surface texture and help get final close befor switching to random orbit sander. I like air tools and a lot of ventilation such as middle of the back yard and a big fan. Always wear a good mask with valves such as "Dust Foe" or 3M. There are Tyvec paper coveralls for keeping the itch down. Rubber band the sleeves and wear gloves.

Best regards,
Frank_S


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I used a 60 grit flap wheel on a my 4.5 inch angle grinder to grind down the big spots of resin buildup on my skiff.


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

The flap grinder worked great ( cant flip the boat over by my self ) for getting some of the excess crap .. i kept hitting fiber glass though so i decided to stop . The 80grit on the electric palm sander was a complete fail unfortunately , the stuff on the bottom is like latex outside house paint it just does not budge , tried my hand and wet paper still nothing .. i focused on the same spot for a total of 35 minutes ( 8x8 inch area ) and i never saw any of the under layers.

I might have to buy an orbital sander or something.


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

Otter,

Your project looks very familiar. I built a boat from scratch several years back for the sole purpose of duck hunting and with the abuse of that sport I had major repairs that were completed last fall. 

I originally built it with wood and now I removed every piece of wood and trace of saw dust. I too faced all of the dilemas that you face.

Before you go and buy all of your supplies you need to remember one very important thing - epoxy or vinyl ester. Epoxy will stick to everything but not everything will stick to epoxy. 

There are pluses and minuses to each and the benefits and characteristics of each should be weighed beforehand.

When I was redoing mine I jumped right in as well, but the energy was quickly drained with what became Pandora's box. I had to keep the overall project in the back of my mind and keep focused on the goal for that particular session. Otherwise I would get discouraged.

I did a lot more than what you are doing and with your budget you will end up with a very nice ride.

I do not know where you are located but there is a great fiberglass shop here in Ft. Lauderdale (the employees even build boats in their spare time - not just run the cash register).

Keep plugging away.


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## syndicate (Mar 19, 2009)

> Otter,
> 
> Your project looks very familiar. I built a boat from scratch several years back for the sole purpose of duck hunting and with the abuse of that sport I had major repairs that were completed last fall.
> 
> ...



Hi Duck 

Thanks , Yeah we have slowed down a bit . The inside is pretty well sanded even though a little lumpy , the walls on it are just pretty thin and the further we go we are finding patches etc . The big dissapointment was a few of the "wood runners" are just water clogged. Due to how thin the boat is , we are going to leave them in there like that.

The main issue we are discussing is how we are going to keep its form once we cut off the back transom . And even though I have had tons of help here I am still confused by all the different fillers ( what we should use on the outside , and inside ) .


How we will support the boat is a decent issue , I would like to not have to build a gigantic wooden frame for it . In the next coming weeks we will be doing the patch work then taking off the transom , adding the transom again and then laying down the foam / runners / floor and rub rail. I think once this is done the boat should go fairly quickly its just one of those things looking at it and going "uhh now what"


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## DuckNut (Apr 3, 2009)

I sent you a message.


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