# Which skiff is recommended for Islamorada to Flamingo?



## windblows (May 21, 2014)

How long is that run? How shallow do you need to run? How shallow do you need to pole? How open (prone to chop) is the water there? Sorry, I don't know the area very well as I'm in NE Florida.


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

All great questions that I need answered by the veterans on here that have made that run and fished those waters. I have yet to do it...


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## J-Dad (Aug 30, 2015)

game on said:


> All great questions that I need answered by the veterans on here that have made that run and fished those waters. I have yet to do it...


I'd suggest fishing with a guide first who knows the area before you try to decide on a skiff. You'll get a feel for the fishing and the area, and he's sure to provide some boat feedback.


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## fjmaverick (Sep 18, 2015)

Ive done that run in a 17' action craft. We ran about 40mph the whole way and it took a little over 45 min.


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## kenb (Aug 21, 2015)

game on said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking to get into my first skiff. A quick background on me I have fished all my life but never fished on a skiff or flats boat. I recently purchased a home in Islamorada that my wife and I are moving to in the near future. I plan to be able to make runs from Tavernier Creek area to Flamingo/backcountry area. So I'm looking for suggestions on the size and type of skiff that would get me there to fish the skinny stuff and get me back. I would also love if it had a livewell. I have been eyeing up the East Cape models so maybe we can use that as a start and open to hearing any other manufacturers models that would fit my needs. I'll be 50 next year so keep that in mind when making a recommendation, especially poling around all day. I'm a fit 50 but every year I lose something I used to be able to do. Appreciate everyone's help on this and also can't wait to become a more involved part of this community.
> 
> ...


I'm at MM(mile marker) 98 bayside. Have an 18 Dolphin Backcountry and a 16 Gordon Waterman. Willing to take you from Tavernier Creek area out to Flamingo and back, bring your gps to mark a safe route , i'll be back in Key Largo on the 30th. PM if interested.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2016)

kenb said:


> I'm at MM(mile marker) 98 bayside. Have an 18 Dolphin Backcountry and a 16 Gordon Waterman. Willing to take you from Tavernier Creek area out to Flamingo and back, bring your gps to mark a safe route , i'll be back in Key Largo on the 30th. PM if interested.


kenb, Great that you'd offer this to a fellow board member. That's what microskiff is all about.


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

kenb said:


> I'm at MM(mile marker) 98 bayside. Have an 18 Dolphin Backcountry and a 16 Gordon Waterman. Willing to take you from Tavernier Creek area out to Flamingo and back, bring your gps to mark a safe route , i'll be back in Key Largo on the 30th. PM if interested.


Ken, thanks for the offer!! PM sent. Great to know there are still nice people around in this world we live in...


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

J-Dad said:


> I'd suggest fishing with a guide first who knows the area before you try to decide on a skiff. You'll get a feel for the fishing and the area, and he's sure to provide some boat feedback.


Yes I agree. I'm just wondering what most on here use that make that run often. Doesn't have to be I like this boat over that boat. More interested in length of boat, what is the minimum draft, beam, HP, etc. to make it across and back safely when the weather picks up. Starting to look at different skiffs and it's getting a little confusing with so many different models from 16 - 20 foot range....


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

Do yourself a favor and go spend a few hours at Lorelei Bar bayside Islamorada. A lot of guides use the ramp to launch and retrieve at the end of the day. You'll see all the skiffs the guides use to make the Isla - Flamingo run.

Over all the years I've made the run, I've been on: Hells Bay - (16 Whipray, 17.8 Professional, Marquesa, Guide and Waterman). Maverick/Hewes - (Master Angler, Mirage, 18 Redfisher). East Cape - (Lostmen).
Others: Chittum 18 Islamorada, Mangrove 16, 17 ActionCraft, Willy Roberts, Sidewinder and 17 Yellowfin.

Not too many people ever worry about getting caught in bad weather - it's not like making the trip from Key West to the Marquesas where a really bad storm could potentially be deadly in a skiff not capable of handling those conditions. I'ver come back more than a few times from Flamingo in bad weather and the worse I've gotten was a bruised ass.


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## kensfl (Oct 22, 2010)

We have a place on Tavernier Creek and back in the late 90s I did what Net 30 now suggests--hung around the Lorelei and Worldwide Sportsman once it opened and looked at what the guides were running.

FWIW, back then, before today's tehnical poling skiffs became prevalent, the Maverick Mirage 2 was popular. There were Maverick Master Anglers and 17' and 18' Action Crafts too (I wound up with a 17' Action Craft, and I have made the run in a 16' Hewes Bonefisher).

I'd guess that today you'll see a lot of HPXVs and Hell's Bay Professionals 

Consider, of course, how and where else you will use that boat (or whether you will have a second boat).


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

game on said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking to get into my first skiff. A quick background on me I have fished all my life but never fished on a skiff or flats boat. I recently purchased a home in Islamorada that my wife and I are moving to in the near future. I plan to be able to make runs from Tavernier Creek area to Flamingo/backcountry area. So I'm looking for suggestions on the size and type of skiff that would get me there to fish the skinny stuff and get me back. I would also love if it had a livewell. I have been eyeing up the East Cape models so maybe we can use that as a start and open to hearing any other manufacturers models that would fit my needs. I'll be 50 next year so keep that in mind when making a recommendation, especially poling around all day. I'm a fit 50 but every year I lose something I used to be able to do. Appreciate everyone's help on this and also can't wait to become a more involved part of this community.
> 
> ...


Any of the top 17'-18' boats would be fine making the run. Depending on the winds, some of the run can get a little snotty in a flatter bottom boat. I would look for the boat that meets most of your fishing needs (you mention fishing "skinny" and poling) and don't worry too much about the run to Flamingo unless the weather is bad. I would be happy to share some additional information or help in any other way I can. Good luck with the relocation! I'm jealous--keep talking to my wife about moving there when I retire but so far she's having nothing of it!


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## CaptAlan (Mar 20, 2016)

windblows said:


> How long is that run? How shallow do you need to run? How shallow do you need to pole? How open (prone to chop) is the water there? Sorry, I don't know the area very well as I'm in NE Florida.


As far as on plane running draft 18-24" will let you run 70% of the passes and all of the important ones. If you know what you are doing you can use the a weather shore from tavernier creek to flamingo the whole way and have very little draft. Id recommend for the smoothest ride with a easterly wind Tav key pass>tav creek>tav creek south cut>toilet seat>crane>lower Bob Allen>West Polock>keep the stick on starboard> west Calusa> **** key>south dump key(dump key at night)>tin can alley and you are there! 
with a westerly wind id say Tav creek>Capt key pass>Bob Allen south>Bob Allen proper>twisty mile>dump key> tin can alley. I would recommend against running Bob Allen key and Twisty mile at night. Twisty mile gets a little confusing at night and Bob allen key while technically marked has 2 turns and 2 submerged markers that you can't see at night. If you are going to live in the keys i do recommend having a boat that you can go to the reef and snorkel with you will be living 3nm to the world 3rd largest barrier reef Its a shame to not take advantage of that. All that you need is a bay boat or center console to get to the reef. It really puts it into perspective for me when I realize that our clients our forking out thousands to travel across the country and charter a boat just to come snorkel on a living coral reef. Here you jump in your boat and 10min later you are swimming on the wreck of a 1733 spanish galleon.

I would highly recommend Net 30 's advice on the Lorelei.


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

CaptAlan said:


> As far as on plane running draft 18-24" will let you run 70% of the passes and all of the important ones. If you know what you are doing you can use the a weather shore from tavernier creek to flamingo the whole way and have very little draft. Id recommend for the smoothest ride with a easterly wind Tav key pass>tav creek>tav creek south cut>toilet seat>crane>lower Bob Allen>West Polock>keep the stick on starboard> west Calusa> **** key>south dump key(dump key at night)>tin can alley and you are there!
> with a westerly wind id say Tav creek>Capt key pass>Bob Allen south>Bob Allen proper>twisty mile>dump key> tin can alley. I would recommend against running Bob Allen key and Twisty mile at night. Twisty mile gets a little confusing at night and Bob allen key while technically marked has 2 turns and 2 submerged markers that you can't see at night. If you are going to live in the keys i do recommend having a boat that you can go to the reef and snorkel with you will be living 3nm to the world 3rd largest barrier reef Its a shame to not take advantage of that. All that you need is a bay boat or center console to get to the reef. It really puts it into perspective for me when I realize that our clients our forking out thousands to travel across the country and charter a boat just to come snorkel on a living coral reef. Here you jump in your boat and 10min later you are swimming on the wreck of a 1733 spanish galleon.
> 
> I would highly recommend Net 30 's advice on the Lorelei.


Wow Capt. thanks for taking the time to write with all of the specific details. This will come in handy as I get to know the waters better over time. I've been reading charts and trying to create paths to Flamingo but I do understand that nothing will compare to getting to know the local waters and learning how to read the water as you go. I agree and I think I will end up with 2 boats eventually. I do still want to go ocean side and dabble in that fishery as well as snorkel, sandbar, tiki bars, etc with the family. Not going to go big for that boat though want to keep that simple and comfortable, just pick my days. I've done the Lorelei and Worldwide thing in the past watching all the boats come in, I'm a boat nut! Just never stopped to wonder which one would work best for my current needs. Heck I never thought I would be making this a reality one day. I have a 100 ton Masters license and run lots of big boats but I can't wait to get into the skiff world. To me it's like pushing the reset button and learning an entirely new way to fish. I've grown a bit tired of the big boat days (so has my pocket) and can't wait to experience the hunt of stalking fish. I feel so fortunate and lucky that we are going to make this move.


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

Net 30 said:


> Do yourself a favor and go spend a few hours at Lorelei Bar bayside Islamorada. A lot of guides use the ramp to launch and retrieve at the end of the day. You'll see all the skiffs the guides use to make the Isla - Flamingo run.
> 
> Over all the years I've made the run, I've been on: Hells Bay - (16 Whipray, 17.8 Professional, Marquesa, Guide and Waterman). Maverick/Hewes - (Master Angler, Mirage, 18 Redfisher). East Cape - (Lostmen).
> Others: Chittum 18 Islamorada, Mangrove 16, 17 ActionCraft, Willy Roberts, Sidewinder and 17 Yellowfin.
> ...


Net 30, thanks this good to hear, I'm not worried so much about the weather I guess. I'm thinking more about which ride will give me a nice balance of good ride in the chop and still be able to fish most of that area. Out of those mentioned which do you feel was your favorite or at least in the top 3?


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## Limp Shrimp (Aug 23, 2015)

I would look at the ECC fury, HPX-S, or any of the 18 ish Hells Bay products except the Marquesa. .. poling anything bigger than these in Flamingo mudd, against a current or wind or both gets difficult...


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

I'm guessing I should stay away from a tunnel hull design?


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## Limp Shrimp (Aug 23, 2015)

game on said:


> I'm guessing I should stay away from a tunnel hull design?


There's nothing wrong with tunnels, but running shallow grass flats is frowned upon.... bevertail also makes a nice poling skiff if you need more to look at


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## Floridian FLY (Jan 30, 2016)

Limp Shrimp said:


> I would look at the ECC fury, HPX-S, or any of the 18 ish Hells Bay products except the Marquesa. .. poling anything bigger than these in Flamingo mudd, against a current or wind or both gets difficult...


I would recommend the HPX-V over the S if you are more worried about ride verses shallow draft.
S is a flat bottom boat and tends to not be as comfortable with long runs in chop.
The S will be a bit easier on the pole.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

Congratulations on the new home!

Sounds like if you're nice to kenb, can pole, see fish, you may not need a boat.

Buying a skiff is the easiest part of flats fishing. Finding someone you like fishing with is the hardest part. You can fish solo, but it is more than twice as hard to be successful.

Maybe where a cap that says "I "heart" poling" when you go to the Lorelei....


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## CaptAlan (Mar 20, 2016)

If you are planing routes look at the Florida bay map and guide: https://www.nps.gov/ever/planyourvisit/floridabay.htm it's published by NPS it's the only resorce that shows the depth of the passes. It only has a few passes on it but it includes all of the important ones. TOP SPOT makes a good paper chart its water proof and has the whole bay on one side. Its Not USCG legal though. Your beds resorce in my opinion is Google earth. You can see all 130 or so passes and some what gauge the draft. GE lests you see the narrowness and general lay out of the passes. My best recommendation when you are learning the bay is to go at idle speed thruogh the passes and watch the depth the first time you go through a new pass. And go out between 10-3 when learning new passes it lets you see into the water column the best particularly for the unmarked passes.


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

CaptAlan said:


> If you are planing routes look at the Florida bay map and guide: https://www.nps.gov/ever/planyourvisit/floridabay.htm it's published by NPS it's the only resorce that shows the depth of the passes. It only has a few passes on it but it includes all of the important ones. TOP SPOT makes a good paper chart its water proof and has the whole bay on one side. Its Not USCG legal though. Your beds resorce in my opinion is Google earth. You can see all 130 or so passes and some what gauge the draft. GE lests you see the narrowness and general lay out of the passes. My best recommendation when you are learning the bay is to go at idle speed thruogh the passes and watch the depth the first time you go through a new pass. And go out between 10-3 when learning new passes it lets you see into the water column the best particularly for the unmarked passes.


Thanks for the advice, yes I already found that guide and have been studying it in relation to GE. We are on the same page, I do plan to take it easy first few times until I feel comfortable running them. I really appreciate all the sharing of knowledge on here guys, keep it coming!!


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## fishtrapper (Jun 6, 2009)

game on said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking to get into my first skiff. A quick background on me I have fished all my life but never fished on a skiff or flats boat. I recently purchased a home in Islamorada that my wife and I are moving to in the near future. I plan to be able to make runs from Tavernier Creek area to Flamingo/backcountry area. So I'm looking for suggestions on the size and type of skiff that would get me there to fish the skinny stuff and get me back. I would also love if it had a livewell. I have been eyeing up the East Cape models so maybe we can use that as a start and open to hearing any other manufacturers models that would fit my needs. I'll be 50 next year so keep that in mind when making a recommendation, especially poling around all day. I'm a fit 50 but every year I lose something I used to be able to do. Appreciate everyone's help on this and also can't wait to become a more involved part of this community.
> 
> ...



I would do your home work by going to the factories where the boats are made (if this is an option) for the boats you are looking at. Test ride every boat that you may be interested even if you think you might be interested in that boat test drive it. Make sure it is rough out when you test ride in the boat, most boats ride good in flat water. Also ask around about service after the sale with whatever skiff you decide on, you never know if you will need it. 

Depending on your age, height, weight, balance and medical issues or limitations a skiff may work better for you than the guys who guide day in and day out in that area. Some of the guides may never use a trolling motor but because of a number of reason you may want a skiff that has one on it. Also stability of the boat may be more important for you than the guides who are on their boats daily. So think about this when you are picking the right boat for you and the area.


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

game on said:


> Wow Capt. thanks for taking the time to write with all of the specific details. This will come in handy as I get to know the waters better over time. I've been reading charts and trying to create paths to Flamingo but I do understand that nothing will compare to getting to know the local waters and learning how to read the water as you go. I agree and I think I will end up with 2 boats eventually. I do still want to go ocean side and dabble in that fishery as well as snorkel, sandbar, tiki bars, etc with the family. Not going to go big for that boat though want to keep that simple and comfortable, just pick my days. I've done the Lorelei and Worldwide thing in the past watching all the boats come in, I'm a boat nut! Just never stopped to wonder which one would work best for my current needs. Heck I never thought I would be making this a reality one day. I have a 100 ton Masters license and run lots of big boats but I can't wait to get into the skiff world. To me it's like pushing the reset button and learning an entirely new way to fish. I've grown a bit tired of the big boat days (so has my pocket) and can't wait to experience the hunt of stalking fish. I feel so fortunate and lucky that we are going to make this move.


Where you a CIVMAR by any chance? My son is Chief Mate with MSC.


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

DBStoots said:


> Where you a CIVMAR by any chance? My son is Chief Mate with MSC.


No sir I was not.


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## CaptAlan (Mar 20, 2016)

DBStoots said:


> Where you a CIVMAR by any chance? My son is Chief Mate with MSC.


No sir. I only mess with boats sub 100GRT. I do know a few guys that are CIVMAR though and One of my coworkers retired as a master on a 1200 TEU boat owned by Maersk. He some sort of a panamanian unlimited oceans ticket but, we only do Jones Act trade on small boats so he has a USCG charter ticket too. Now he only drives little fifty footers with the rest of us. He has some good sea stories for sure! He does like to kid around with the rest of us if we need a "Real Captain" with some serious tonnage on the boat. I bet he had a funny sea service application for his charter boat ticket "last vessel served on as master 30,000GRT".


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

CaptAlan said:


> No sir. I only mess with boats sub 100GRT. I do know a few guys that are CIVMAR though and One of my coworkers retired as a master on a 1200 TEU boat owned by Maersk. He some sort of a panamanian unlimited oceans ticket but, we only do Jones Act trade on small boats so he has a USCG charter ticket too. Now he only drives little fifty footers with the rest of us. He has some good sea stories for sure! He does like to kid around with the rest of us if we need a "Real Captain" with some serious tonnage on the boat. I bet he had a funny sea service application for his charter boat ticket "last vessel served on as master 30,000GRT".


Yeah those boys are playing in a whole other world when they are operating vessels over 100 tons. It's stressful enough just staying in the 80' to 100' length. When you are running those big ships everyone on the crew better be operating like a swiss watch or else the defecation hits the rotary oscillator very fast. I remember delivering some private boats down the river system from Chicago to Sarasota, those barge guys are pushing 35 to 42 barges, each about 200 feet long by 35 feet wide, configured in a rectangular 6 to 7 barges long and 5 to 6 barges wide. The whole setup can easily be over 1,200 feet long and 200 feet wide. It takes forever when they have to break them apart and tie them off because they won't all fit in the lock at once. it was a great experience though having been fortunate to see this in action during my deliveries...


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## DBStoots (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm so proud of my son, Bryan. He is only 27 and already Chief Mate with the Military Sealift Command. He is currently Chief on the USNS Lewis B. Puller (T-ESB 3). This is a new ship for the Navy and he has been in charge of the new construction/post-delivery inspection. Since graduating Maine Maritime Academy, he has sailed around the world on such MSC ships as the USNS John Lethall, USNS Apache, and USNS Navajo. This is Captain Stoots leaving Portsmouth, NH towing a nuclear submarine on the way through the Panama Canal and then up the West Coast to Washington.


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## Danny Moody (Jan 22, 2016)

I have been very happy with my Dragonfly 16' Emerger but not sure if I would recommend it for long bay runs. Dragonfly does make a 17' with a very sharp entry that is absolutely gorgeous. Check them out at http://www.dragonflyboatworksllc.com


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

Danny Moody said:


> I have been very happy with my Dragonfly 16' Emerger but not sure if I would recommend it for long bay runs. Dragonfly does make a 17' with a very sharp entry that is absolutely gorgeous. Check them out at http://www.dragonflyboatworksllc.com


I saw them briefly at the Lauderdale show, they build a nice boat. I have them on my radar. It would be great to hear from someone that has been on or owns the 17.


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## Danny Moody (Jan 22, 2016)

game on said:


> I saw them briefly at the Lauderdale show, they build a nice boat. I have them on my radar. It would be great to hear from someone that has been on or owns the 17.


The 16' Emerger at the show was my boat! When I start making longer runs to get to the fishing grounds, I will be getting a Dragonfly 17. 

Call Mark Castlow (the owner) and tell him Danny Moody told you to call. He is incredible to deal with. If you don't recognize Marks name, he co-founded Maverick Boat Co with Scott Deal in 1981. The man understands flats boats like no other.


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## Sandalous (Oct 30, 2013)

Net 30 said:


> Do yourself a favor and go spend a few hours at Lorelei Bar bayside Islamorada. A lot of guides use the ramp to launch and retrieve at the end of the day. You'll see all the skiffs the guides use to make the Isla - Flamingo run.


This is the best advice you will get here. You will probably see that the top two boats used by poling guides are the 17V and the 17.8 Pro. Get the Maverick if you plan on doing more open water fishing.


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## JPlamb (Apr 3, 2016)

I've fished with half a dozen guides from Biscayne down through Key West and the Marquesas and spoken with most of them extensively about boats. I fish with one particular guide out of Islamorada who builds and rebuilds skiffs and small boats, and he runs a rebuilt Maverick HP (original v-design) and loves that, but also runs an HPX V in snottier conditions. You see quite a few Mavericks and Hell's Bay Pros and Guides in that area. I can say i've made a lot of long, bumpy runs in that little Maverick and it's very hard to beat that boat. 

I'll also say that i've been it a handful of Dolphin SuperSkiffs (older hull design with more 'V' in it, but not sure when they changed that...anyone else know details on this..?), and these are very comparable to the original HP. They float skinny enough, pole very well, and ride extremely well. 

If you're running to the park (Flamingo) and back, and you think you'll be poling, not using a trolling motor, a Hell's Bay guide or Pro is a great boat, as is a Whipray. These boats were designed for that area or work very well there. However, if you want to stay a bit more dry an comfortable, it's hard to beat something mentioned above or something like a Maverick HPX-V.

For what it's worth, I have not seen of or heard of anyone running an East Cape in Islamorada. I almost bought a boat from them and think they make a good product, so that's simply an observation from a guy who has fished there and elsewhere a bunch and has spoken with quite a few guys.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

I was in Key West last month fishing the March Merkin, and it was interesting to see the boats line up at the beginning / end of each day. Out of 25 guide boats, my eye-balling estimation of the builds would be something like:

~12-13 Mavericks of various vintages
~5-6 Dolphins
~3-4 Hell's Bay Marquesas
2 Beavertails (Will Benson and someone else)
1 Chittum


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

I used to make this run all the time in my Ankona Copperhead. I was extremely comfortable doing the crossing regularly at 39-41 MPH with a 60 ETEC on my skiff, usually took around 20-30 minutes to get to the fishing grounds. I'm sure it'll probably take longer to get to the actual Flamingo marina, but I never did. I always fished the bights, the flats out front, random flats along the way, so in reality I wasn't running to 'flamingo' more so running into the park and fishing in the same areas I would fish if I was launching at the Flamingo marina instead. I launch at Flamingo and run east/south, same as launching in the keys and running west/north. The route I would take to get from Flamingo Marina to the launch in Islamorada was about 30 or so miles.

I definitely recommend something that'll be comfortable, meaning no tiller skiffs, it'll need to be something with power, not that you will always run WOT, but having the ability to do so can help you outrun any afternoon storms that will pop up in the summer months. and have around a 5-6" draft. There are sheltered routes you can run, there are also big boat routes to run back and forth. Whipray Basin can get a bit sketchy at times, just know the contours of the flats and hug the edge of the flat that will be sheltering from the wind.


I have zero issues with making the run on my tiller shadowcast running 29mph, but I don't live in the keys where I will be making the run every other day of the year. I'm fine doing it now with this skiff if it's just 20-30 times a year. But when I used to spend three months out of the year in Islamorada, I was so thankful to have a steering wheel and a 40MPH skiff.

Personally, I like a small enough skiff that is stable, decently dry, efficient, and doesn't weigh much. Me personally, I'm a fan of a 16-17' poling skiff. I find that skiffs that are longer than 17' tend to be harder to turn on a dime while poling, and are more affected by current (moving water). They seem to have a lag when one tries to spin the skiff quickly. Based on my personal experience with these skiffs (I owned a Gen 2 Copperhead for two years, and we currently have an Ankona Cayenne) I would recommend the Copperhead and Cayenne. The Maverick HPX Micro was also a nice skiff for the park, as I spent quite a bit of time in that and the HPX T fishing the park. My buddy has a 2007 Gordon Waterman that is impressive. I wasn't a huge fan of the Beavertail Strike or HB Professional's I've fished on as they seem a little bit sluggish on pole. I lean towards the Ankona's for better poling abilities of any other skiff I have poled, which is a long list of skiffs.

All skiffs have their pros and cons, find the right one that fits your needs, best way to do so is actually trying them out, not just reading about them or seeing what others are using. I myself was so dead-set on getting a HB Whipray/Waterman 16. It's why I sold my Gen 2 Copperhead, to buy a 16 Whipray, as I was set on buying one, I even had the deal in place to buy it. Then when I fished a buddy's 16 Whipray, I was so unimpressed with it's lack of ability on pole. It wouldn't track worth a damn. I might ruffle some feathers on here, but this is a god honest story. It was the first time I fished with a buddy, and we were in his 16. We get to the fishing spot and see some tailers. He starts to pole us over to the fish but we were going side to side in the light breeze, we were not going straight to the fish at all. At this time I was confused, I thought there was no way this guy was so bad at poling a skiff if he is a guide. I kept offering to let me pole so we can actually get a shot at some fish, after about the third time, he finally switched up and I jumped on the platform. And that's when I realized the skiff just couldn't track in a straight line with a breeze. I was dumbfounded by the realization. Later on that day, we were fishing near a channel and another buddy comes buzzing by and see's us so he pulled up to talk, he owns a 17.8 Professional. We spoke for a little bit and we were on our way. Later that night, my buddy (with the 17.8 Pro) calls me and asks me how I liked fishing on the 16. My response was that I was actually a bit disappointed with it's abilities on the pole. His response was "Yeah, it doesn't pole very well. it doesn't track good because it's too short and wide, the dimensions just don't allow it to track well." My next question was why would I want a skiff that doesn't pole well? His response was "Cause it's a Hell's Bay." I was more dumbfounded at that moment than I was when I realized the skiff wouldn't track with a slight breeze. My response to him was that the Ankona Copperhead I had just sold's dimensions were 16'4 LOA, by 70" BOA, the same exact dimensions as a 16 Whipray/Waterman. His response was "Yeah, but a Copperhead is not a Hell's Bay."

After that, I changed my gears towards what I was looking for. I made an appointment with East Cape to check out their Glide, and when I was on my drive up to East Cape, I got a text from the guys at East Cape that they had to reschedule as something came up. So I was already on the highway, I made a call over to Maverick to check out their skiffs. The guys at Maverick were really cool and gave us a tour around the place and we got to see how they build their skiffs. I was looking at the HPX S and was impressed. When we left there, we decided to pop in unannounced at Ankona Boats (which is a few miles away from Maverick) and checked out a few skiffs. Mel showed me their newest skiff at the time, the Salt Marsh 1444v, and he pulled me aside to see a few new projects he was starting on, the Shadowcast 17 with no tunnel. I got to hear a little bit about the direction they were heading with their new models and growing their existing and proven brand and models. We went out and wet tested the Salt Marsh 1444v and I was impressed with aspects about it, but still questioned other things. My buddy ended up buying a SM 1444v and after fishing on his for over a year I was sold on getting one of my own. Fast forward two years, I currently have a Shadowcast 17 (non tunnel), a Salt Marsh 1444v, and we also have the Cayenne. 

However, now that I have the Salt Marsh 1444v, I am selling my Shadowcast 17 and plan on getting a Salt Marsh Heron or another Copperhead rigged similarly to the one I had last.


Moral of the story, don't go by what you read on the internet or hear from others. Even my whole experience with these skiffs is just an opinion I have formed based on my experiences, you might find something different that works for your situation better. Until you physically test these boats out yourself, you should not make any decisions. I'm sure some people are happy poling their 16 Whips, but they probably haven't poled a skiff that can do better, even though they are out there. It was an older 16 Whip, not a brand new one, I don't know if they have made any changes to the design that has improved it's performance, but the one I had a deal in place for was a 2007 model. Which I should have bought anyway as an investment. I had the deal in place for $14k, after I backed out of the deal, the owner listed the skiff on Microskiff's for sale section at $19k expecting people to bring him down on price and ended up selling it for something around $23k.


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## game on (Mar 12, 2016)

paint it black said:


> I used to make this run all the time in my Ankona Copperhead. I was extremely comfortable doing the crossing regularly at 39-41 MPH with a 60 ETEC on my skiff, usually took around 20-30 minutes to get to the fishing grounds. I'm sure it'll probably take longer to get to the actual Flamingo marina, but I never did. I always fished the bights, the flats out front, random flats along the way, so in reality I wasn't running to 'flamingo' more so running into the park and fishing in the same areas I would fish if I was launching at the Flamingo marina instead. I launch at Flamingo and run east/south, same as launching in the keys and running west/north. The route I would take to get from Flamingo Marina to the launch in Islamorada was about 30 or so miles.
> 
> I definitely recommend something that'll be comfortable, meaning no tiller skiffs, it'll need to be something with power, not that you will always run WOT, but having the ability to do so can help you outrun any afternoon storms that will pop up in the summer months. and have around a 5-6" draft. There are sheltered routes you can run, there are also big boat routes to run back and forth. Whipray Basin can get a bit sketchy at times, just know the contours of the flats and hug the edge of the flat that will be sheltering from the wind.
> 
> ...


This is great stuff, thank you soo much for taking the time to share your experience with me and everyone else. This is the kind of stuff that makes this community so great. This really has helped me out a lot as I have been so confused lately...


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