# Jackplate Woes



## kbkeys1 (Aug 11, 2014)

A few weeks ago, my jackplate(Bobs Machine Shop) stopped working and would make only a clicking sound when switch depressed. Took my rig to Brian Floyd(Islamarine) who installed a brand new complete pump assembly from Bobs this past december.

Brian tested everything electrical that all checked out fine and recommended sending back to Bobs.

Bobs service tech tells me the pump shorted out from water inside the pump housing. He suggested that the pump had either been submerged or had been "hosed down" , and would not be warrantied.

The pump assembly was located in a dry hatch where all the electrical connections, fuses, wiring,trim tab switches,etc. are located. 

I would never spray water into that hatch! The pump assembly was never submerged! So how did water invade the pump housing? Shouldn't that pump have been watertight?

The pump will now be returned to me and will take it back to Brian at Islamarine for analysis.

I would appreciate any info you can offer about this issue. Thanks, Kenb


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## AfterHours2 (Aug 2, 2010)

I figured Bobs would have better customer service than that. I'd sell the plate after it is fixed and go with a Atlas IMHO..


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## Capt. Eli Whidden (Jun 7, 2012)

Which boat is it mounted on? Just curious.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I have a Flats Jack Plate from Bob's. It was new in "97 all I have replace is a selonoid. They have always been helpful to me. 

So with that said I am sorry about you problem

I can't visualize your part so could you show us what it looks like so I don't spray mine with water


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

The chronological order of your post is confusing. Are you saying Brian replaced a bad pump in December and that pump failed in 8 months?

Anyway there is a seal between the pump and the electric motor that can go bad and allow fluid from the pump into the electric motor. Thats why mine failed last year, but it was over 10 years old. You didn't say why it failed in December. Was it the same symptoms?

It is possible for your lower hydraulic hose connections on the cylinder outside the transom and under water to be loose and allow seawater into the system. The same could happen on the cylinder shaft seal but that is at the top and you would probably have just lost fluid without getting water into the system.

If Bob's said you had water in the pump, then there should be evidence of rust/corrosion within the electric motor. Look for that when you get the pump back by separating the motor from the pump. There also be evidence of water in your fluid if you drain the hoses and cylinder.

Everything happens for a reason, keep looking.


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## Capnredfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Please. Mine is 10 years old. Spray it down all the time. It is in a hatch, but its a boat. Salt water gets in there so I wash everything. If water got in it. Something failed allowing it to happen. I would complain a bit more. I had a water pressure gauge line come off under cowling of a new boat. Had no idea. Water got sucked in motor and siezed after sitting. Was all Etec equipment and they replaced it.


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## kbkeys1 (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks all for your input. The jackplate is on the 16 Waterman(with tunnel). Coincidentally, The original pump was rendered useless when that hatch was in fact completely submerged when the skiff was almost sunk while being towed by seatow. The new pump was installed in concert with repowering in december 2014.


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## Sandalous (Oct 30, 2013)

After hearing that they immediately denied your warranty, it looks like I know not to go with Bob's when I put a jackplate on my boat! The Atlas Micro Jacker looks great.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

There is another thread on this forum with a discussion about Atlas microjacker frames breaking repeatedly.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> Thanks all for your input. The jackplate is on the 16 Waterman(with tunnel). Coincidentally, The original pump was rendered useless when that hatch was in fact completely submerged when the skiff was almost sunk while being towed by seatow. The new pump was installed in concert with repowering in december 2014.


Then, I would suggest that your mechanic, Brian, did not completely drain all the water from the hydraulic lines when he replaced the submerged pump, thereby leaving water in the system that eventually reached the new pump and caused the failure.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

Yep it looks like mechanic failure [ch128545]


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

> After hearing that they immediately denied your warranty, it looks like I know not to go with Bob's when I put a jackplate on my boat! The Atlas Micro Jacker looks great.


Warranty is for defects, insurance is for damage. Bob's isn't in the insurance business.


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## timemachine (Sep 1, 2014)

One thing about this sort of situation is that the reader really does not know exactly what went wrong.

Was water inside the housing of the pump, or in the hydraulic circuit? Anything on a boat should handle some spray, particularly if it is intended to go into the bilge; however, if water is where the oil should be, that is a different story.


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## Sandalous (Oct 30, 2013)

> > After hearing that they immediately denied your warranty, it looks like I know not to go with Bob's when I put a jackplate on my boat! The Atlas Micro Jacker looks great.
> 
> 
> Warranty is for defects, insurance is for damage. Bob's isn't in the insurance business.


No they're not, but they should be in the business of making sure that 9-month-old units don't break (and if they do, they are replaced quickly with a smile) so they don't look bad on a skiff forum thread... 

Why would I want to deal with a company that blames a "hose down" as grounds for voided warranty? That's nuts. Bilges and hatches are wet environments by nature.

KenB has made it very clear that there was no damage done to the unit.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

I have a 14 year old Bob's plate that works flawlessly. I suspect that the tech at Bob's wouldn't make up a water intrusion story. He may not have known about the previous water intrusion and perhaps was guessing as to where the water damage he saw came from.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Also, if the mechanism suffered water intrusion and was then disassembled and reassembled by a 3rd party, how can Bob's be responsible? If they had done the repair then yes.


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## Sandalous (Oct 30, 2013)

> There is another thread on this forum with a discussion about Atlas microjacker frames breaking repeatedly.


After doing a search, and looking at about 8 threads, it seems that people love them, and they have held up for awhile. I only found two bad reviews, both from the same user "EclecticRedneck", and involved the unit cracking from not being greased properly. He indicated that Atlas immediately sent a new unit with no questions asked.

Please send me the link where they are cracking repeatedly, as I am interested in buying one.


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## Sandalous (Oct 30, 2013)

> I have a 14 year old Bob's plate that works flawlessly.  I suspect that the tech at Bob's wouldn't make up a water intrusion story.  He may not have known about the previous water intrusion and perhaps was guessing as to where the water damage he saw came from.


KenB made it clear in previous post that it was a _brand new pump assembly_ that was installed after the water intrusion occurred. Maybe I'm missing something here?


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

> Maybe I'm missing something here?


I agree.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

There's a pump and there's an electric motor that turns the pump.


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## kbkeys1 (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks again for the perspectives. Devrep...glad to hear you've had good experiences with Bob's. The previous submerging of the original pump happened months before the new pump assembly was installed in dec 2014.

There was never a disassembly/reassembly of the pump by any third party. Brian merely tested all the electricalcomponents and never got into the pump. The lines and reservoir were completely drained prior to shipping to Bobs.

Marietta, Yes, Brian replaced the bad original pump with a brand new complete pump assembly($335) purchased from Bobs and that one failed in the 8 month time span. Thanks for the technical info, I will pass that on to Brian.

HaMm3r and chaser...Brian Floyd of Islamarine has rigged more skiffs and bay boats with jackplates than he can count. Mechanic failure? I'd truly be shocked were it true. Product failure? We shall hopefully nail this down when we get it back again.

Sandalous...that's about it in a nutshell.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Roger. Much better explanation.


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## Sandalous (Oct 30, 2013)

> Thanks again for the perspectives. Devrep...glad to hear you've had good experiences with Bob's. The previous submerging of the original pump happened months before the new pump assembly was installed in dec 2014.
> 
> There was never a disassembly/reassembly of the pump by any third party. Brian merely tested all the electricalcomponents and never got into the pump. The lines and reservoir were completely drained prior to shipping to Bobs.
> 
> ...


I figured as much. Hopefully they take care of you.


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## HaMm3r (Dec 11, 2006)

> HaMm3r and chaser...Brian Floyd of Islamarine has rigged more skiffs and bay boats with jackplates than he can count. Mechanic failure? I'd truly be shocked were it true. Product failure? We shall hopefully nail this down when we get it back again.


And I've machined hundreds of push pole holders, but that doesn't mean I don't make a mistake and screw one up occasionally. It happens, we're human. Regardless, you've clearly made up your mind that is was not the mechanic's fault, so that's fine by me. Hope you get it sorted without too much more $$ out of pocket.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

This pump design is the same pump used for hydraulic helms and numerous other marine hydraulic applications like PowerPoles, hydraulic tabs, and power tilt/trim on stern drives. Bob's just adds solenoids and puts their sticker on it.

http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-3537-new-trim-motor-mercruiser-6275-14336a20-14336a8-88183a12.aspx?CAWELAID=130000240000000533&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CPWZoZGDl8cCFYVAaQod_14JbA
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-8741-power-pole-sportsman-anchor-tilt-trim-motor-pump-reservoir.aspx?CAWELAID=130000240000002885&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=COvulquDl8cCFY6EaQod7j8FZg
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/power-trimtilt-pump-assembly-alpha-bravo-p-3143.html?gclid=CKbOu8aDl8cCFQIEaQodoHQJ8w
http://www.absolutemarine.co.nz/12v-power-trim-tilt-hydraulic-pump-unit

The weak link is the electric motor and solenoids. same goes for your outboard trim/tilt system.

http://www.bobsmachine.com/6-Setback-Action-Series-Jack-Plate-100-106010.htm



I unsuccessfully searched for a place I could buy just the motor when mine crapped out.

Warranty or not, Bob's is the best place I could find to buy a replacement motor/pump.
http://www.bobsmachine.com/Hydraulic-Pump-Motor-Assembly-No-Wiring-120-120000.htm


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

When I got my boat (new) my bms pump sounded bad. To the point that when I ran it while on the phone with the tech he said send it in. It worked well for a few years and then I got it wet. So replaced it on my dime. Now it appears the reservoir is leaking. 
When I bought the replacement pump they were advertising lifetime waranty. I don't see any mention of that on their site. I won't by another BMS product ever again. But kinda like you I was already committed.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

> When I bought the replacement pump they were advertising lifetime waranty. I don't see any mention of that on their site. I won't by another BMS product ever again. But kinda like you I was already committed.


Post like this remind me of the signs in the ice cream shop over in NSB.

The signs basically say that if you drop your ice cream or break the cone you don't get another one for free. Sorry.

The shop has probably lost some customers from this policy, but they're still in business because they haven't lost all their customers because of having to have higher prices to cover costs for dropped ice cream.


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

If I break something or drop my ice cream I suck it up and pay to replace. If somebody sells me a POS I believe it's their responsibility to make it right. And BMS pretty much did but I'm at 3 reservoir caps and at least 6 solenoids (and ordering a new reservoir) on a boat that is well taken care of and has 324 hrs on it. 

I don't expect anything for free. But I expect to get what I pay for. As does the OP.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

> If I break something or drop my ice cream I suck it up and pay to replace. If somebody sells me a POS I believe it's their responsibility to make it right. And BMS pretty much did but I'm at 3 reservoir caps and at least 6 solenoids (and ordering a new reservoir) on a boat that is well taken care of and has 324 hrs on it.
> 
> I don't expect anything for free. But I expect to get what I pay for. As does the OP.



Glad to hear you don't expect others to pay for your mistakes. However something about your losing 3 reservoir caps, replacing 6 solenoids, and now replacing a cracked reservoir indicates the problem isn't the pump. Either your pump is mounted in a location where it shakes the crap out of it or you're rough on your equipment. And your battery or wiring may be weak causing the solenoids to burn out.

There is still something missing as to how water got into the OP's pump motor. Throwing Bob's under the bus is not going to identify the cause of his problem, nor yours.


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

> > If I break something or drop my ice cream I suck it up and pay to replace. If somebody sells me a POS I believe it's their responsibility to make it right. And BMS pretty much did but I'm at 3 reservoir caps and at least 6 solenoids (and ordering a new reservoir) on a boat that is well taken care of and has 324 hrs on it.
> >
> > I don't expect anything for free. But I expect to get what I pay for. As does the OP.
> 
> ...


Back away from the koolaid.  I think you've been over-served.  

I haven't lost anything nor do I abuse my stuff. There's probably 10-12 guys on this board that can confirm that.  

My *opinion*on this product is that it could be better made. My experience with this product has not been positive. 

Is it okay that I don't like Odyssey batteries either?


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

The yellow reservoir cap on my unit is cracked with age and weeps oil.


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## hookemdano (Feb 9, 2007)

> The yellow reservoir cap on my unit is cracked with age and weeps oil.


Exactly.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

Funny I just went to order a new yellow cap. They want 6.95 for the cap and 13.00 to ship it. I found a Mercury version on ebay for 10 bucks shipped. Power Pole also sells some of the same parts for these pumps.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

The pump Mercury and Bob's are using is made by Parker and they are sold through distributors. If you know somebody that knows somebody you might get parts wholesale.

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.338f315e827b2c6315731910237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=edcba35c7575e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextfmt=EN&productcategory=partlist&vgnextdiv=200311&vgnextcatid=1850025&vgnextcat=108+SERIES+HYDRAULIC+POWER+UNITS&Wtky=

And it looks like Mallory Marine is also marketing them under their name.

http://www.wholesalemarine.com/tilt-trim-reservoir-for-mercruiser-mercury.html?gclid=CIbPvPnul8cCFcwXHwodzZ0MZg


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

> Funny I just went to order a new yellow cap.  They want 6.95 for the cap and 13.00 to ship it.  I found a Mercury version on ebay for 10 bucks shipped.   Power Pole  also sells some of the same parts for these pumps.


Post the ebay link…I need one too!


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121650650212?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121650650212?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Gracias!


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## Creek Runner (Sep 1, 2011)

[smiley=popcorn2.gif]

Oh and things on boats break and sometimes they break more than once!


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