# Have you ever limited on Bull redfish?



## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Shit came up on FB from a dude that runs this outfit from my hometown.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

This kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way, and I think casts the wrong message to our next generations. 

This reminds me of another post I just saw today on instagram of @MeredithMcCord feeding a small redfish -- while still hooked -- to a raccoon for mere entertainment value. She could have easily pulled it into the skiff, but instead, she and her "guide" watched and giggled while the hooked redfish, line running into its mouth, was slowly pulverized and eaten by the raccoon, with no chance of escaping. I'm all about the food chain, but that ain't a fair fight (human and raccoon, vs redfish), and why are "ambassadors to fly fishing" thinking that's an ethical and acceptable behavior? I made a few comments and obviously got some standard instagram keyboard warriors responding with clearly some ruffled feathers. But the most disappointing thing was the excuse matrix that followed: "it was going into my icebox anyway", "it had swallowed the fly". Reminds me of that boca grande idiot that tortured the tarpon behind the boat while watching sharks destroy it. Sure, keep a redfish and throw it in the ice box to feed your family - have no issues with that whatsoever, but don't keep more than you can eat, and don't torture a fish for entertainment value. I think she and her guide should have known better and set a better example. Kinda disgusting IMHO. 

I dunno - am I in the minority here?


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## dbrady784 (Feb 17, 2014)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> This kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way, and I think casts the wrong message to our next generations.
> 
> This reminds me of another post I just saw today on instagram of @MeredithMcCord feeding a small redfish -- while still hooked -- to a raccoon for mere entertainment value. She could have easily pulled it into the skiff, but instead, she and her "guide" watched and giggled while the hooked redfish, line running into its mouth, was slowly pulverized and eaten by the raccoon, with no chance of escaping. I'm all about the food chain, but that ain't a fair fight (human and raccoon, vs redfish), and why are "ambassadors to fly fishing" thinking that's an ethical and acceptable behavior? I made a few comments and obviously got some standard instagram keyboard warriors responding with clearly some ruffled feathers. But the most disappointing thing was the excuse matrix that followed: "it was going into my icebox anyway", "it had swallowed the fly". Reminds me of that boca grande idiot that tortured the tarpon behind the boat while watching sharks destroy it. Sure, keep a redfish and throw it in the ice box to feed your family - have no issues with that whatsoever, but don't keep more than you can eat, and don't torture a fish for entertainment value. I think she and her guide should have known better and set a better example. Kinda disgusting IMHO.
> 
> I dunno - am I in the minority here?


totally agree with you and thought I was in the minority. “Going in the ice box” what a sorry excuse. Trying to save face and doing an extremely poor job.


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## Alexander Wilcox (May 15, 2020)

The definition of poor conservatorship. Charters like this are a driving force in destroying fisheries and teaching a group of kids the wrong way to care for the environment. 

Seeing stuff like this just breaks my heart.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Jesus that guy is in Freeport. I just checked his Instagram and he’s killing bulls EVERY SINGLE TRIP. So freaking stupid


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## Alexander Wilcox (May 15, 2020)

jsnipes said:


> Jesus that guy is in Freeport. I just checked his Instagram and he’s killing bulls EVERY SINGLE TRIP. So freaking stupid


He won't be in business long if he kills everything near him...


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Legal is legal no matter how you feel about it. It’s no different from the meat haul guides who book multiple trips a day or the flounder gigging guides who beat up shorelines every single night.

I don’t agree with it but under the current regs there isn’t anything anyone can do.


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## Alexander Wilcox (May 15, 2020)

Legality and morality rarely go hand in hand. Proof? See below:


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Alexander Wilcox said:


> Legality and morality rarely go hand in hand. Proof? See below:
> 
> View attachment 161046


Never said it did...and your meme is wrong


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## Jred (Sep 22, 2013)

I used to live near Surfside. This charter and a couple others do this 5 days a week all year long


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Jred said:


> I used to live near Surfside. This charter and a couple others do this 5 days a week all year long


Typical jetty guides I’m sure.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Legality and morality are just about nonexistent now. Get used to it, I stopped trying to argue with people about killing big speckled trout because dumbasses (not directed at you Matt) always bring up the legality of it. Your neighbor can legally bang your wife but that doesn’t mean it’s right.


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## Jred (Sep 22, 2013)

It blows my mind how this is so common in Texas yet the fishery is thriving compared to parts of Florida I’ve lived in


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)




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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Jred said:


> It blows my mind how this is so common in Texas yet the fishery is thriving compared to parts of Florida I’ve lived in


Gotta be the jet skis bro!


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Jred said:


> I used to live near Surfside. This charter and a couple others do this 5 days a week all year long


The only reason I popped on this post was 16 dead fish. Stupid. And being quoted back that it is legal...my response was just because it is legal doesn’t mean it ain’t bullshit.


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> Legality and morality are just about nonexistent now. Get used to it, I stopped trying to argue with people about killing big speckled trout because dumbasses (not directed at you Matt) always bring up the legality of it. Your neighbor can legally bang your wife but that doesn’t mean it’s right.


Hey man I get it. I feel like I push a lot further than most, maybe not “most“ on this site as it’s a solid group of people, on not keeping limits and bigger fish. Hero dock shots piss me off.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

Smackdaddy53 said:


> View attachment 161047


Damnit.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> This kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way, and I think casts the wrong message to our next generations.
> 
> This reminds me of another post I just saw today on instagram of @MeredithMcCord feeding a small redfish -- while still hooked -- to a raccoon for mere entertainment value. She could have easily pulled it into the skiff, but instead, she and her "guide" watched and giggled while the hooked redfish, line running into its mouth, was slowly pulverized and eaten by the raccoon, with no chance of escaping. I'm all about the food chain, but that ain't a fair fight (human and raccoon, vs redfish), and why are "ambassadors to fly fishing" thinking that's an ethical and acceptable behavior? I made a few comments and obviously got some standard instagram keyboard warriors responding with clearly some ruffled feathers. But the most disappointing thing was the excuse matrix that followed: "it was going into my icebox anyway", "it had swallowed the fly". Reminds me of that boca grande idiot that tortured the tarpon behind the boat while watching sharks destroy it. Sure, keep a redfish and throw it in the ice box to feed your family - have no issues with that whatsoever, but don't keep more than you can eat, and don't torture a fish for entertainment value. I think she and her guide should have known better and set a better example. Kinda disgusting IMHO.
> 
> I dunno - am I in the minority here?





dbrady784 said:


> totally agree with you and thought I was in the minority. “Going in the ice box” what a sorry excuse. Trying to save face and doing an extremely poor job.


That may have spurred my redass. Been one thing if she had tried to get it before the ‘****. That pause definitely gave me pause.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

I honestly didn't know people actually ate reds that big.


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

Jason M said:


> I honestly didn't know people actually ate reds that big.


I bet they mostly end up w freezer burn and being tossed out


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

jsnipes said:


> I bet they mostly end up w freezer burn and being tossed out


Lots of blame to go around then. If your going to kill the fish you need to eat it. I kept a spanish today that I hooked deep. We ate it tonight. Honestly I think we should do better and eat more than just the fillets too, there's a lot of meat that gets left on the skeleton


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Stresses on the breeding saltwater sport fish are too great to allow killing for sport. Even the prolific red drum is an unsustainable harvest given current environmental conditions.


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## NealXB2003 (Jun 8, 2020)

I eat my share of reds, but they're nasty when they get that big anyway.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

worms.


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

People suck.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Not to play junior game warden, but I don’t see any tags on those redfish. Oversized Redfish in Texas have to have tags affixed. From the TP&W site “During a license year, one red drum over the stated maximum length limit may be retained when affixed with a properly completed Red Drum Tag and one red drum over the stated maximum length limit may be retained when affixed with a properly completed Bonus Red Drum Tag. Any fish retained under authority of a Red Drum Tag or a Bonus Red Drum Tag may be retained in addition to the daily bag and possession limit as stated in this section”
*Immediately upon retaining a fish:*

Remove tag from license and use entire tag.
Fill in *all* information spaces on front of tag.
Cut out day and month.
Attach tag with a string or wire to the narrowest part of the tail, just ahead of the tail fin.










Those redfish on the concrete have to have tags. Do y’all see any tags? TP&W goes after and gets convictions on guides and others all of the time based on social media posts and photographic evidence like shown in the OP. TP&W has a dedicated staff just for this.

Want to do something besides complain, turn in this photographic evidence to TP&W. Nothing is legal about those fish on the pavement that I can see. TP&W love to get people that openly flout the law on social media.

If this is a genuine guide and social media post as the OP seems to suggest, I’d be extra pissed if I was the guide that played by the rules and see my competition openly thumb his nose at me and the law.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

[email protected]

This is the contact email for Texas Parks and Wildlife social media derived potential fish and game violations. I sent a link of the Oilfield outkasts website to the email above, more pictures of untagged and apparently oversized redfish are on their website.

If Oilfield Outkasts are playing by the rules, they have nothing to worry about. At least the game warden can look at the photos and decide if it merits further investigation.


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

Looking deeper at the TP&W site, Oilfield Outkasts should be okay legally on the tagging as they have reached the dock and at that point redfish tags can be then be removed. Presumably, they are tagging the fish out on the water and then removing the tags as they hit the dock for the fish on the pavement photos.

Steve Gremmilion is listed as a guide affiliated in some way with Oilfield Outkasts. I believe he has his own guide service as well. I know he advocates for conservation of the resources on another forum. I don’t know about any of the other guides affiliated with Oilfield.

But, as long as they are legal. I wish people didn’t want to keep those big breeder redfish as they aren’t choice to eat. But, apparently some folks hire a guide mainly to load up on groceries, sub par groceries in this case with oversized fish, and that’s within their rights. TP&W does a good job with the resource and balancing all the competing interests.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

Call or email them. Scroll down and see more photos from this trip. “Tagged out” with this same group three days in a row?





__





Oilfield Outkasts Charters


Deep sea fishing thrills from Freeport TX. We will meet or beat any competitors' prices and service!




oilfieldoutkasts.com


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> This kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way, and I think casts the wrong message to our next generations.
> 
> This reminds me of another post I just saw today on instagram of @MeredithMcCord feeding a small redfish -- while still hooked -- to a raccoon for mere entertainment value. She could have easily pulled it into the skiff, but instead, she and her "guide" watched and giggled while the hooked redfish, line running into its mouth, was slowly pulverized and eaten by the raccoon, with no chance of escaping. I'm all about the food chain, but that ain't a fair fight (human and raccoon, vs redfish), and why are "ambassadors to fly fishing" thinking that's an ethical and acceptable behavior? I made a few comments and obviously got some standard instagram keyboard warriors responding with clearly some ruffled feathers. But the most disappointing thing was the excuse matrix that followed: "it was going into my icebox anyway", "it had swallowed the fly". Reminds me of that boca grande idiot that tortured the tarpon behind the boat while watching sharks destroy it. Sure, keep a redfish and throw it in the ice box to feed your family - have no issues with that whatsoever, but don't keep more than you can eat, and don't torture a fish for entertainment value. I think she and her guide should have known better and set a better example. Kinda disgusting IMHO.
> 
> I dunno - am I in the minority here?



When that video was originally posted at full length, it clearly showed the fish being swung back out so that the raccoon could catch it. It was later edited down to look more like the raccoon just caught it on his own so she could play dumb like she couldn't do anything about it. It really pissed me off. Bitch travels to my home fishery, hot spots the shit out of stuff than does fuckery like that. I know exactly where she was, I recognized the spot because I fish it often and have seen the raccoons there often. Very reliable sources tell me that there is also video of the same "Fly Fishing Ambassador" literally riding a manatee in Florida.

A note about the raccoon video, where it happened is on an island 7 miles from the nearest land. I always wondered how the raccoons got there. It appears that hurricane Zeta wiped out all of the raccoons on the island though, been there 4 times since the storm and haven't seen one, which never happens.


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## jmrodandgun (Sep 20, 2013)

Nobody loves Meredith McCord more than Meredith McCord. Worse are the guides who pander to her. Especially the one in Venice. You know who you are...


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

Eating redfish that big is gross.


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Just because you can don’t mean you should...

St Upid. Patron saint of dumb asses everywhere


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## William Odling (Jan 8, 2020)

jmrodandgun said:


> Nobody loves Meredith McCord more than Meredith McCord. Worse are the guides who pander to her. Especially the one in Venice. You know who you are...


Never heard of her until now, she seems a like a cunt


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## CurtisWright (May 9, 2012)

Most people just don't know or understand how bad those bulls taste. I killed one about 15 years ago because I thought it was "a ton of meat". I am sure the clients wanted to keep them and the guide felt compelled to because it is legal. Or maybe they are just over compensating for their short comings


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## jsnipes (May 1, 2011)

CurtisWright said:


> Most people just don't know or understand how bad those bulls taste. I killed one about 15 years ago because I thought it was "a ton of meat". I am sure the clients wanted to keep them and the guide felt compelled to because it is legal. Or maybe they are just over compensating for their short comings


looks like they just like killing stuff to me. they seem to keep sharks, catfish, and anything that ends up in the boat.


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## redchaser (Aug 24, 2015)

CurtisWright said:


> Most people just don't know or understand how bad those bulls taste. I killed one about 15 years ago because I thought it was "a ton of meat". I am sure the clients wanted to keep them and the guide felt compelled to because it is legal. Or maybe they are just over compensating for their short comings


When I was a kid my dad would keep everything. It was the "grew up in the depression, waste not/want not" mentality. I've eaten enough big redfish and big black drum to know that there are far better things to eat. I also know that a redfish that size may well be 30 years old. I figure anything that survives that long in the ocean environment deserves a little respect. Also a 10-12 pound female redfish will produce around 300,000 eggs during a spawn. A large 20-30 pound female will produce upwards of 3 MILLION eggs per spawn. We need the big girls out there making babies.


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

jsnipes said:


> looks like they just like killing stuff to me. they seem to keep sharks, catfish, and anything that ends up in the boat.


Jetty guides...trash...


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## William Odling (Jan 8, 2020)

jsnipes said:


> looks like they just like killing stuff to me. they seem to keep sharks, catfish, and anything that ends up in the boat.


Bucket people


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## State fish rob (Jan 25, 2017)

Alexander Wilcox said:


> Legality and morality rarely go hand in hand. Proof? See below:
> 
> View attachment 161046


Damn,I read the fine print...my mom and dad are doubled up on both sides the fence. Don’t want to even think about what this means for me.... The Tar Heel State !


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## karstopo (Nov 28, 2019)

We have a strong “get a pile of meat” mentality here, people brag about never having to go to grocery stores to buy meat or fish, from their hunting and fishing activities, which is fine, but there are better solutions for this than retaining big breeder redfish. People went absolutely bonkers when the state lowered trout limits. No one said you can’t go out and catch speckled trout all day long if you wish, you just can’t keep as many. But for these meat fishermen, it was like the state was telling them they can‘t eat. The comments were along the lines “well, I might as well sell my boat, fishing just ain’t worth it no more”. These sentiments from people running rigs costing upwards of 70k.

I don’t understand why Texas even allows the retention of any bull redfish. Not choice meat, doesn’t help the fishery, what’s the reasoning going on here with TP&W? Do these jetty guides have that much stroke with the state? We can go out to the MOB and catch bull reds all day long if the sharks will leave us be, but no one I know will retain a single bull red. It’s not any sport fishermen I am aware of or know that wants to have bull breeder redfish in the icebox. Who is it that wants these fish killed?


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

karstopo said:


> We have a strong “get a pile of meat” mentality here, people brag about never having to go to grocery stores to buy meat or fish, from their hunting and fishing activities, which is fine, but there are better solutions for this than retaining big breeder redfish. People went absolutely bonkers when the state lowered trout limits. No one said you can’t go out and catch speckled trout all day long if you wish, you just can’t keep as many. But for these meat fishermen, it was like the state was telling them they can‘t eat. The comments were along the lines “well, I might as well sell my boat, fishing just ain’t worth it no more”. These sentiments from people running rigs costing upwards of 70k.
> 
> I don’t understand why Texas even allows the retention of any bull redfish. Not choice meat, doesn’t help the fishery, what’s the reasoning going on here with TP&W? Do these jetty guides have that much stroke with the state? We can go out to the MOB and catch bull reds all day long if the sharks will leave us be, but no one I know will retain a single bull red. It’s not any sport fishermen I am aware of or know that wants to have bull breeder redfish in the icebox. Who is it that wants these fish killed?


Meat haul guides taking googans and corporate meat haul trips plus the local guides that rape the bays all summer with croaker limiting out on trout as fast as possible and running 3-4 trips a day with a fleet of lodge guide boats like Run N Gun out of Matagorda. People fish with these guides then when they finally get their own boat they mimic the guides they learned from and go burning shorelines in tower boats, fish kill tournaments every weekend and basically screw it up for the people that just want to get on the water and have some peace. There’s nothing like poling a serene shoreline on a Tuesday and having two or three tower boats burning every shoreline in sight and never even stopping to fish and then getting nearly run over by a few airboats and then having a couple go fast boats full of drunks running 65-70 through the middle of the flats playing slalom with boats that are drifting. It’s become a real shit show. I wish fishing wasn’t the fad it has become due to social media and internet heros that want to be the next GoPro Instagram star.
I can rant about this for days.


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## KimmerIII (Feb 9, 2017)

karstopo said:


> We have a strong “get a pile of meat” mentality here, people brag about never having to go to grocery stores to buy meat or fish, from their hunting and fishing activities, which is fine, but there are better solutions for this than retaining big breeder redfish. People went absolutely bonkers when the state lowered trout limits. No one said you can’t go out and catch speckled trout all day long if you wish, you just can’t keep as many. But for these meat fishermen, it was like the state was telling them they can‘t eat. The comments were along the lines “well, I might as well sell my boat, fishing just ain’t worth it no more”. These sentiments from people running rigs costing upwards of 70k.
> 
> I don’t understand why Texas even allows the retention of any bull redfish. Not choice meat, doesn’t help the fishery, what’s the reasoning going on here with TP&W? Do these jetty guides have that much stroke with the state? We can go out to the MOB and catch bull reds all day long if the sharks will leave us be, but no one I know will retain a single bull red. It’s not any sport fishermen I am aware of or know that wants to have bull breeder redfish in the icebox. Who is it that wants these fish killed?


That is unfortunate. A large majority of ******** play the whole "feed the family" bullshit about going and fishing or hunting. It costs 1/100th to go buy white bread and deli meat than it does to buy the stuff necessary to catch fish but I digress. Changing the mentally to be a conservationist is thankfully taking place more so that it did when I was a kid but there is still a group of idiots that think a fishing trip means killing whatever you can and freezing the meat. Who the hell likes frozen fish anyways. If I dont eat it in a day or 2 I don't keep it but that is just me.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I’d guess these folks were at MOB, and they certainly don’t seem to mind killing fish for glory pics while saying it is legal. 

The problem continues to be the promotion of limits=success and that the “ocean” is limitless in its bounty. This is perpetuated by a high percentage of guides AND folks that live here. I get the social media thing could be promoting this, but that street runs both ways. If one were to post up a limit of dead LMB from Falcon they would be crucified by the same dudes that come here for their meat hauls. Short of changing the law(s), calling folks out for bad behavior and promoting conservation are the best means available to change these attitudes. The folks promoting it now will most likely not change. The folks who are “influenced” or have yet to be introduced can be taught what is ”right”. We will never go back in time like many of us would like to, but we can certainly evolve the sport going forward...Social media is a hell of a tool for that.

If bass guys have one thing right, it is C&R. Watching some of the shows detailing the backlash that occurred when Roland Martin started advocating for that on “Big O” is eye opening considering where it is today.

I just went back through my fishing licenses hoping to find one from 2000 or so. The oldest I found had the same tag as the current license, but I swear I remember it saying “trophy tag” or some other such wording. I also remember one had to send in an executed tag to get another. The idea of having people apply for a second tag to “legally” kill 2 bulls per person on a single trip is even more sickening as I’m betting this is being promoted by the outfitter (who the hell would think to do that otherwise?)


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

Very sad. 

Best quote of the thread "Hero dock shots piss me off." 

And "Meredith McCord is a cunt" 

lol


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

Twas me I’d have said something to guide. But then again I’m over sensitive and prone to bouts of bad behavior.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

poor girl gonna end up in a freezer if she goes north a bit...


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Surffshr said:


> View attachment 161188
> 
> poor girl gonna end up in a freezer if she goes north a bit...


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## sjrobin (Jul 13, 2015)

Surffshr said:


> View attachment 161188
> 
> poor girl gonna end up in a freezer if she goes north a bit...


An example of how resilient red drum are. Especially if the red survived after being beached and boga gripped. Or internet photo shenanigans


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

#1 I don’t agree with keeping bull reds, legal or not.
#2 There is a huge difference between someone taking their dad out twice a year and keeping a limit vs a guide doing it every single day.
#3 We need to preserve these resources before it’s too late. Go watch a travel show to any 3rd world country where all they catch now are 3-4” fish. 
#4 I’m not a big fan of requesting more legislation and restrictions to our freedoms than are already being rammed down our throats.

Where does that leave us? I favor education, both for the guides and the clients. Many of the clients would probably happily release those fish with just a photo if they knew some details. Guides should know better, so it’s just “quit being a jackass before you put yourself and the rest of us out of a job.”


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

Or go ask any Northern California steel header.

I went to a restaurant once in Sonoma County when I used to live there. Very high end joint. Still there. They served a 15 course menu and one of the courses was wild caught steelhead with some such sauce. I made a weird face and on the next go around asked the waitress to clarify. The next day I wrote a letter to the owner saying your people are telling clients that you’re serving wild Caught steelhead. You can’t sell wild-caught steelhead in a restaurant. So make sure your people know that it’s farmed. The guy wrote me back explaining how some native American tribe had a loophole up in Washington that they were able to exploit. I’m like bro it’s an endangered species.

Some people


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

jackson man said:


> Could have been "wild caught" hatchery Steelhead.


Steelhead is banned from commercial fishing.


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## NealXB2003 (Jun 8, 2020)

I personally think anything you catch with the assistance of a guide should be catch and release only. Not as much fair chase involved when you pay for someone to do the legwork for you.


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

NealXB2003 said:


> I personally think anything you catch with the assistance of a guide should be catch and release only. Not as much fair chase involved when you pay for someone to do the legwork for you.


That’s a good idea but a tough sell.


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## paint it black (Nov 3, 2007)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> This kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way, and I think casts the wrong message to our next generations.
> 
> This reminds me of another post I just saw today on instagram of @MeredithMcCord feeding a small redfish -- while still hooked -- to a raccoon for mere entertainment value. She could have easily pulled it into the skiff, but instead, she and her "guide" watched and giggled while the hooked redfish, line running into its mouth, was slowly pulverized and eaten by the raccoon, with no chance of escaping. I'm all about the food chain, but that ain't a fair fight (human and raccoon, vs redfish), and why are "ambassadors to fly fishing" thinking that's an ethical and acceptable behavior? I made a few comments and obviously got some standard instagram keyboard warriors responding with clearly some ruffled feathers. But the most disappointing thing was the excuse matrix that followed: "it was going into my icebox anyway", "it had swallowed the fly". Reminds me of that boca grande idiot that tortured the tarpon behind the boat while watching sharks destroy it. Sure, keep a redfish and throw it in the ice box to feed your family - have no issues with that whatsoever, but don't keep more than you can eat, and don't torture a fish for entertainment value. I think she and her guide should have known better and set a better example. Kinda disgusting IMHO.
> 
> I dunno - am I in the minority here?


I felt the same exact way when I saw the video.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

Interestingly enough, I‘m home with a sick kid this morning so I turned on a Meat Eater episode. The first one that came up was fishing for reds in TX with JT Van Zandt. I’ve been a fan of his and knew his outlook on keeping fish, but they do a great job of explaining it on the show.

Hopefully people that watch it and choose to hire a guide for reds will have the same outlook, and younger guides looking up to him will as well.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

At risk of too much thread drift from the OP's post of some meat hauler guide taking advantage of the resource for personal gain, I'm going to pipe up about the Meredith Mccord racoon video. For all of you that think she's a (insert derogatory word/s of choice here) for letting that racoon eat that fish, think about this a little more deeply. The fish was going to die, whether it was her keeping the fish or releasing a deeply hooked fish or letting the racoon eat it, it was going to die. How is it any different that she release the fish for it to swim off and slowly die from bleeding out and become food for the crabs, giving it to the obviously hungry racoon to eat, or her to eat it? Is it worse for a fish to die or the racoon to die of starvation? If you are so worried about the fish dying, why are you even fishing in the first place? You go out and disturb the fish where they live, stab them in the face with a metal hook, play them out while they struggle for their life, all for your personal enjoyment. When phrased like that, it sounds like everyone that fishes is a self-ish, narcisisstic bastard with no regard for the resource we claim to love and protect. Very similar to the fishing guide we all seem to be hating on for meat hauling all those bull reds. Lighten up Francis...

Flame away boys, I've got my FRC pajamas on and a warm cup of hater-aide.


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## jonterr (Mar 24, 2013)

jay.bush1434 said:


> At risk of too much thread drift from the OP's post of some meat hauler guide taking advantage of the resource for personal gain, I'm going to pipe up about the Meredith Mccord racoon video. For all of you that think she's a (insert derogatory word/s of choice here) for letting that racoon eat that fish, think about this a little more deeply. The fish was going to die, whether it was her keeping the fish or releasing a deeply hooked fish or letting the racoon eat it, it was going to die. How is it any different that she release the fish for it to swim off and slowly die from bleeding out and become food for the crabs, giving it to the obviously hungry racoon to eat, or her to eat it? Is it worse for a fish to die or the racoon to die of starvation? If you are so worried about the fish dying, why are you even fishing in the first place? You go out and disturb the fish where they live, stab them in the face with a metal hook, play them out while they struggle for their life, all for your personal enjoyment. When phrased like that, it sounds like everyone that fishes is a self-ish, narcisisstic bastard with no regard for the resource we claim to love and protect. Very similar to the fishing guide we all seem to be hating on for meat hauling all those bull reds. Lighten up Francis...
> 
> Flame away boys, I've got my FRC pajamas on and a warm cup of hater-aide.


I’ve never heard of a **** dying from starvation😀


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## loganlogan (May 8, 2020)

jay.bush1434 said:


> At risk of too much thread drift from the OP's post of some meat hauler guide taking advantage of the resource for personal gain, I'm going to pipe up about the Meredith Mccord racoon video. For all of you that think she's a (insert derogatory word/s of choice here) for letting that racoon eat that fish, think about this a little more deeply. The fish was going to die, whether it was her keeping the fish or releasing a deeply hooked fish or letting the racoon eat it, it was going to die. How is it any different that she release the fish for it to swim off and slowly die from bleeding out and become food for the crabs, giving it to the obviously hungry racoon to eat, or her to eat it? Is it worse for a fish to die or the racoon to die of starvation? If you are so worried about the fish dying, why are you even fishing in the first place? You go out and disturb the fish where they live, stab them in the face with a metal hook, play them out while they struggle for their life, all for your personal enjoyment. When phrased like that, it sounds like everyone that fishes is a self-ish, narcisisstic bastard with no regard for the resource we claim to love and protect. Very similar to the fishing guide we all seem to be hating on for meat hauling all those bull reds. Lighten up Francis...
> 
> Flame away boys, I've got my FRC pajamas on and a warm cup of hater-aide.


Did the racoon eat the fish while the fish was still alive?


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

jay.bush1434 said:


> At risk of too much thread drift from the OP's post of some meat hauler guide taking advantage of the resource for personal gain, I'm going to pipe up about the Meredith Mccord racoon video. For all of you that think she's a (insert derogatory word/s of choice here) for letting that racoon eat that fish, think about this a little more deeply. The fish was going to die, whether it was her keeping the fish or releasing a deeply hooked fish or letting the racoon eat it, it was going to die. How is it any different that she release the fish for it to swim off and slowly die from bleeding out and become food for the crabs, giving it to the obviously hungry racoon to eat, or her to eat it? Is it worse for a fish to die or the racoon to die of starvation? If you are so worried about the fish dying, why are you even fishing in the first place? You go out and disturb the fish where they live, stab them in the face with a metal hook, play them out while they struggle for their life, all for your personal enjoyment. When phrased like that, it sounds like everyone that fishes is a self-ish, narcisisstic bastard with no regard for the resource we claim to love and protect. Very similar to the fishing guide we all seem to be hating on for meat hauling all those bull reds. Lighten up Francis...
> 
> Flame away boys, I've got my FRC pajamas on and a warm cup of hater-aide.


I've had these thoughts. But I continue to fish. selfish bastard I guess.


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

jay.bush1434 said:


> At risk of too much thread drift from the OP's post of some meat hauler guide taking advantage of the resource for personal gain, I'm going to pipe up about the Meredith Mccord racoon video. For all of you that think she's a (insert derogatory word/s of choice here) for letting that racoon eat that fish, think about this a little more deeply. The fish was going to die, whether it was her keeping the fish or releasing a deeply hooked fish or letting the racoon eat it, it was going to die. How is it any different that she release the fish for it to swim off and slowly die from bleeding out and become food for the crabs, giving it to the obviously hungry racoon to eat, or her to eat it? Is it worse for a fish to die or the racoon to die of starvation? If you are so worried about the fish dying, why are you even fishing in the first place? You go out and disturb the fish where they live, stab them in the face with a metal hook, play them out while they struggle for their life, all for your personal enjoyment. When phrased like that, it sounds like everyone that fishes is a self-ish, narcisisstic bastard with no regard for the resource we claim to love and protect. Very similar to the fishing guide we all seem to be hating on for meat hauling all those bull reds. Lighten up Francis...
> 
> Flame away boys, I've got my FRC pajamas on and a warm cup of hater-aide.


Oh boy lol


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

loganlogan said:


> Did the racoon eat the fish while the fish was still alive?


Yeah it was in the process of being reeled in. She stops. Let’s the raccoon grab it. Would you let an animal caught in a trap get attacked by coyotes? And sit there and watch? Probably best to kill it first as that was in her ability to do so.


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

loganlogan said:


> Did the racoon eat the fish while the fish was still alive?


I had to google it to see but, yeah. She dabbles it out there for the **** to come grab. I don’t think it was about feeding a starving **** or that the fish was already going to die. It looked more like for views from her cuck followers...


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## RJTaylor (Oct 4, 2017)

MatthewAbbott said:


> I had to google it to see but, yeah. She dabbles it out there for the **** to come grab. I don’t think it was about feeding a starving **** or that the fish was already going to die. It looked more like for views from her cuck followers...


Of course it was. No reason to video tape it, if it wasn't.


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

RJTaylor said:


> Of course it was. No reason to video tape it, if it wasn't.


Pretty shitty. Killing things for entertainment value and filming it for monetary compensation are illegal I think. Someone should tell her. I am a man so I don’t have Instagram.


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

jackson man said:


> What does being a man have to do with Instagram?😳


Lol. It’s a joke.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

If you’re a man on Instagram, simply hit the search icon...


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> This kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way, and I think casts the wrong message to our next generations.
> 
> This reminds me of another post I just saw today on instagram of @MeredithMcCord feeding a small redfish -- while still hooked -- to a raccoon for mere entertainment value. She could have easily pulled it into the skiff, but instead, she and her "guide" watched and giggled while the hooked redfish, line running into its mouth, was slowly pulverized and eaten by the raccoon, with no chance of escaping. I'm all about the food chain, but that ain't a fair fight (human and raccoon, vs redfish), and why are "ambassadors to fly fishing" thinking that's an ethical and acceptable behavior? I made a few comments and obviously got some standard instagram keyboard warriors responding with clearly some ruffled feathers. But the most disappointing thing was the excuse matrix that followed: "it was going into my icebox anyway", "it had swallowed the fly". Reminds me of that boca grande idiot that tortured the tarpon behind the boat while watching sharks destroy it. Sure, keep a redfish and throw it in the ice box to feed your family - have no issues with that whatsoever, but don't keep more than you can eat, and don't torture a fish for entertainment value. I think she and her guide should have known better and set a better example. Kinda disgusting IMHO.
> 
> I dunno - am I in the minority here?


I don't have Insta what ever so right on brother. I doubt those fish where to feed the hungry


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## Net 30 (Mar 24, 2012)

MatthewAbbott said:


> I had to google it to see but, yeah. She dabbles it out there for the **** to come grab. I don’t think it was about feeding a starving **** or that the fish was already going to die. It looked more like for views from her cuck followers...


Yup......plus those grey pants she wore made her ass look flabby.


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## Jason M (Aug 13, 2017)

Getting into ethics is a sticky situation. If it was legal to keep a large fish then fine. I may not like it or do it personally. I think we should all recognize that keeping a fish shouldn't be discharged if the resource is healthy. I kept a fish last weekend. 

It seems like this was in Texas and from the outside it looks like the resource managers must be doing a decent job there. I'd spend some time lobbying the managers to change the law and have the captains be better stewards of the resource. Peer pressure would do wonders here.

I've briefly meet Meridith Mccord and she seemed very nice and can fish like crazy. I've also seen that video and that fish was pimp walked to that raccoon. Not much different than what those guys did to that tarpon on the shark under the bridge show on discovery channel just at a lesser scale. And I doubt any raccoon in the marsh is starving ever. Plus habituating wild animals ends up bad for the animal.

We all have to be good representatives of fishing because there are plenty of instagram influencers pimping fish for marketing dollars and I doubt they are donating to conservation organizations.... Let's not give the anti fishing and hunting crowd any more ammo.


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## loganlogan (May 8, 2020)

Rocksteady1 said:


> Yeah it was in the process of being reeled in. She stops. Let’s the raccoon grab it. Would you let an animal caught in a trap get attacked by coyotes? And sit there and watch? Probably best to kill it first as that was in her ability to do so.


That tells what kind of jacked up person she is. I believe in jail time for something like that.


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## Rocksteady1 (Apr 14, 2020)

loganlogan said:


> That tells what kind of jacked up person she is. I believe in jail time for something like that.


hear hear!


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

Terrible.


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

TheFrequentFlier said:


> This reminds me of another post I just saw today on instagram of @MeredithMcCord feeding a small redfish -- while still hooked -- to a raccoon for mere entertainment value. She could have easily pulled it into the skiff, but instead, she and her "guide" watched and giggled while the hooked redfish, line running into its mouth, was slowly pulverized and eaten by the raccoon,


That's an old post and she caught quite a ration of shit over it originally. I know my comment was along the lines of "set a better example through your platform...".


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## crboggs (Mar 30, 2015)

jay.bush1434 said:


> Flame away boys, I've got my FRC pajamas on and a warm cup of hater-aide.


If she was worried about the **** being hungry she could have given him the fish and moved on. She made a video about it and posted it...

People with a platform and visibility have a responsibility to set a better example if/when they decide to post content.


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## TheFrequentFlier (Feb 17, 2016)

crboggs said:


> That's an old post and she caught quite a ration of shit over it originally. I know my comment was along the lines of "set a better example through your platform...".


I knew I had seen it before (a while back) but she had the nerve to post it again... just digging a bigger hole. She's a disgrace to the sport, and TBH, kinda makes all those random "world records" she holds/chases seem completely meaningless and irrelevant. Yeah she might be a good angler, but she just proved - herself - to the angling world that she's an awful person with zero respect for the sport, fishery, conservation or sportsmanship. Straight scumbag. [BTW, hope I'm not derailing this thread, but seems like the subjects are the same category of $hitbag]


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