# 8wt Clutch Archipelago line



## jamie (Jan 22, 2016)

what rod?


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## Nway93 (May 9, 2016)

Clutch Archipelago


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Make sure you check all your guides very well. A cracked or broken stripping or snake guide can cause significant problems like that with flylines.

Here's a question for you. Are you trying to throw short with that rod? Are you carrying a lot of line to throw deeply load it and to throw distance mostly? They are by nature, a very stiff rod. How long have you been fly fishing/ fly casting down here and with that rod? Have you ever cleaned and dressed the line? How often? What flies are you throwing? What fish are you targeting with that rod? What size are they?


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## Shadowcast (Feb 26, 2008)

Wulff Bermuda Shorts TT


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## Nway93 (May 9, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Make sure you check all your guides very well. A cracked or broken stripping or snake guide can cause significant problems like that with flylines.
> 
> Here's a question for you. Are you trying to throw short with that rod? Are you carrying a lot of line to throw deeply load it and to throw distance mostly? They are by nature, a very stiff rod. How long have you been fly fishing/ fly casting down here and with that rod? Have you ever cleaned and dressed the line? How often? What flies are you throwing? What fish are you targeting with that rod? What size are they?


I throw very short like 10-15' quite a bit but I'd say 30-50' is average. I go to school in jax so low tides for crawling/busting reds and the floods. Average fish would be mid slot to just over 30". Normally med beadcain on the low tide stuff or x sm to med lead eyes for the grass. My line gets muddy very often so I clean it a lot, probably once a month at least. I've had the rod for a year but have fly fished for around 10yrs and had a bvk before this.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I would recommend going one line up for that rod, which is stiffer than the BVK. So i'd recommend a Rio Redfish in a 9wt. If you can try a demo line out from the fly shop and throw like you are throwing out in the water, you will see it will short load your rod much better. Maybe even take it out with you for a day if they would let you. If I was recommending a rod for you, coming off the BVK for that particular fishing, I would have recommended the Mangrove, since it's a softer action rod, which is better for short loading with a line weight rated for the rod (i.e 8wt line for an 8wt rod). I'm not a big fan for over lining a rod. But in this case for that particular rod (I've thrown them), I say over line it by one. I'd also keep an 8wt line for when you are throwing distance in wide open spaces. 

If you were bent on staying with Clutch, I would have recommended that lil 8'1" React they have. It's slightly slower than the Archipelago and you can actually feel the thing load. The Archipelago, not so much! Plus the shorter 8'1" rod will load much quicker and shore than your 9ft Archipelago, which you need for that situation.

With an 8wt line, of course any bead chain fly will work great. But for an 8wt line, you really need to stick with ex sm lead eyes or no more than size sm if you have to use lead eyes to get the fly down. Med lead eyes are just too heavy for that size line, hence another reason to go up to a 9wt line for that rod in your paticular situation. If you were sticking with a 8wt line but wanted to dredge the bottom in deeper cuts and water, then consider using an intermediate sink tip floating line or even a full intermediate sinking line to help get your fly down there. Those 2 lines will also feel slightly heavier and help load the rod better. You can still use them with the recommended lead eyes of ex sm or sm.

On the subject of *mud*..... Mud, not cleaned off every time you use your flyline, will cling and dry on to the outer coating of your fly line. Then it will scuff thru your rod guides when you start to use it again and thereby damage the coating over time. If you don't use a stripping basket and your flyline is left on the deck for the mud to dry out between cast, it will further damage the line. I would suggest getting a regular white colored low profile laundry hamper and put about an inch or 2 of some clean water (clean saltwater is fine). The water will help weight the basket down and keep it from blowing over. The water will also help to rinse the mud off the fly line as it's being ripped off the water during a cast. If need be, change the water periodically as you see it getting cloudy with mud.

Here's what I recommend once you get home EVERYTIME you get back from a fishing trip. Fill your sink with fresh warm water and put a few drops of dawn dish washing liquid in the water (just a few drops to help break up the slime). Let it soak for about 5 minutes or so. Drain the sink and really rinse the line off good with your sprayer. Take a clean soft wash cloth, run some fresh water on it and then pull the line through it a couple of times to furter get any remaining grit or slime off it.

Next get a dry cloth and put some of your favorite fly line dressing on the cloth. Loop, Glide, Cortland.... Heck some people use Armor All if they don't have anything. I'll use coconut oil if I don't have anything. So run your fly line thru the cloth several times before you reel it back on the spool. 

When you break your rod out the next time you fish, take the time and stretch your line out properly (even several times) and then take a clean cloth with fly line dressing and dress the line back and forth a couple of times before you start. Then get some water in the basket and have at it again. You will thank me because your casting will dramatically improve and for those short loading cast, your flyline will not feel gritty and sticky.

On a side note, TFO made a little shorty of a rod called a Hawgleg 7/8 and was 7'11' The thing nicely made and was way underpriced at $149, short quick loading and shot like a cannon. Would have been a cool rod for you to try on those grass reds.

Going back to the rod subject, again, a softer loading rod is probably going to be the ticket for those Jax grass and mud reds. The options for that are about endless.

Good luck!

Ted Haas


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## BOZTX (Feb 19, 2016)

Be careful lining up with a rod... especially with a Rio line - they're notoriously heavy, see below. Your better bet would be to look at the line gram/grain weight and up size that by .5-1 size based on the AFFTA line weight standards. Backwater does have a good idea with lining up at close range but don't try to be a hero with 90' in wind... you might end up with a rod in the shop. 

Looks like something in the 230gr window (high 8, low 9) might be perfect for what you're doing. 
http://www.affta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/fly_line_weight_specs.pdf

SA redfish line WF8F is right at 225gr 
http://www.scientificanglers.com/product/mastery-redfish-warm/

Rio Redfish line WF8F is 290gr (10 wt!)
http://www.scientificanglers.com/product/mastery-redfish-warm/

Both of those lines will have similar durability being made out of PVC and braided monofilament... I believe the airflo lines are on single strand mono and built with PU. 

Hope this helps!


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## Capt. TJ Saunders (May 9, 2016)

The line I throw on my Archipelago 5wt is Monic. It is line class specific for true grain weights. On my Archipelago 8wt I have thrown a number of different lines. I can not agree with shadowcast in recommending Wulff Bermuda Shorts. The line is way to heavy, and has its own inherent hinge point in it. Not good for a rod that wants to throw line. I have thrown the standard Bermuda triangle taper by Wulff on my Arc8, and I like the line, but it is to heavy to carry line, its a shooting head. Great for quick, one or two false casts to get to 50-60 feet. I throw most often on my Arc 8, SA SharkWave Saltwater. It is heavier than standard a true 8wt (according to standards) but it loads the rod well without slowing it down drastically. It casts well, shoots great, and lands a lot softer than lines like Wulff Triangle or SA Titan.


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## Capt. TJ Saunders (May 9, 2016)

I can not recommend lining up that Arc rod. If you look at the grain weights of todays 8Wt lines, you're already lining up most rods anyway.
AFTMA standard grain weight for *8wt is set at 210 grains* in the first 30'. (9wt by standard is 240
grains, 10 is 280). The following measurements are for current popular 8Wt lines--

Rio Redfish is 290 grains.
Rio Permit is 339 grains.
Rio Gold is 218 grains.
Rio Bonefish is 320 grains.
Bonefish Quickshooter is 290 grains.
So you've already overlined your rod anyway, thanks to your line manufacturer. By adding more weight in the line, it slows the rod down, by encouraging more bend in the M1 section of the rod. Which may or may not be what the manufacturer intended.

Good luck.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Capt. TJ Saunders said:


> I can not recommend lining up that Arc rod. If you look at the grain weights of todays 8Wt lines, you're already lining up most rods anyway.
> AFTMA standard grain weight for *8wt is set at 210 grains* in the first 30'. (9wt by standard is 240
> grains, 10 is 280). The following measurements are for current popular 8Wt lines--
> 
> ...


Capt., that rod is already stiff by design. So it needs help loading short. He's mostly throwing short. His Airflow Ridge is already heavier than the normal line. Up lining that rod plus water loading will help it to load deeper into the rod. Otherwise, that rod needs a football field to load with a normal 8wt line (exaggerating of course ). With a heavier line, like what BOZTX said, don't be a cowboy and try hauling off and throwing big distance or like he said, it could cause breakage or the rod will collapse on itself and the cast will fall apart.

Otherwise, he needs to get another rod specifically for that type of fishing and save the Clutch for wide open mid range to distance casting. If he does that, there are other options with fly line that he can use for that rod for that application. I'm sure he would feel like a hero if he were throwing smaller, lighter flies mid range to distance with a SA Expert Distance line on that rod out on the deeper grass flats or beach side!


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## Capt. TJ Saunders (May 9, 2016)

Backwater said:


> Capt., that rod is already stiff by design. So it needs help loading short. He's mostly throwing short. His Airflow Ridge is already heavier than the normal line. Up lining that rod plus water loading will help it to load deeper into the rod. Otherwise, that rod needs a football field to load with a normal 8wt line (exaggerating of course ). With a heavier line, like what BOZTX said, don't be a cowboy and try hauling off and throwing big distance or like he said, it could cause breakage or the rod will collapse on itself and the cast will fall apart.
> 
> Otherwise, he needs to get another rod specifically for that type of fishing and save the Clutch for wide open mid range to distance casting. If he does that, there are other options with fly line that he can use for that rod for that application. I'm sure he would feel like a hero if he were throwing smaller, lighter flies mid range to distance with a SA Expert Distance line on that rod out on the deeper grass flats or beach side!



I can't necessarily concur with your opinion. I throw SA Sharkwave on my Clutch Archipelago as well at 40' as I can at 80'. In fact, for my style I prefer the lighter line versus the overly heavy Bermuda TT I have thrown on it in the past.
I do agree, it is a stiff rod. Very Fast, but moving up in line class slows that rod down a good bit, bending the taper deep into the M1 section of the rod. A line like SA Titan Taper (which in itself is inherently heavy) will do the same thing, in an 8wt offering. How much load do you need for a reasonably short 40' cast?
Most lines are already over weighted for their class as it is.

I've not thrown a class-true grain weight line on it, like the Monic lines for example. My experience is with SA, and Royal Wulff lines. My preference is for the lighter of the two. Thank goodness for options. I guess that is the beauty of the game, we all can chose what works best for us, and at the end of the day, if you are happy with the shots you've had and the presentations you've made, then all is good.

Tight lines around!


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Nway93 said:


> I threw the 6wt arc with the sci anglers sharkwave at the demo day they had a blackfly and loved it


I missed this point. Nway93, the characteristics of a 6wt and an 8wt will not be the same. The 6wt by nature is a slower action rod, and that's why you loved it, especially the SA Sharkwave texture and how easy it slides thru the guides. So to be honest, you might like a 6wt for your grass reds fishing, as long as the flies are not too big (designed for a 6wt). So the 6wt and the 8wt are too different animals in that rod. The 8wt is significantly stiffer and is not fun throwing short distances. Hence, the reason I suggested over lining it, so you can feel it load shorter, much like you can with the 6wt.




Capt. TJ Saunders said:


> I can't necessarily concur with your opinion. I throw SA Sharkwave on my Clutch Archipelago as well at 40' as I can at 80'. In fact, for my style I prefer the lighter line versus the overly heavy Bermuda TT I have thrown on it in the past.
> I do agree, it is a stiff rod. Very Fast, but moving up in line class slows that rod down a good bit, bending the taper deep into the M1 section of the rod. A line like SA Titan Taper (which in itself is inherently heavy) will do the same thing, in an 8wt offering. How much load do you need for a reasonably short 40' cast?
> Most lines are already over weighted for their class as it is.


Capt., for his type of fishing, close in on shallow grass plains, the SA Titan will spook everything around it. It lands like a rock, so there is no "presentation" involved. That line is designed to chunk a fly out there in big deep open water in the wind, where the splash down will not make a big difference in those conditions.

Yes, the Archipelago is a stiff rod. Again, if he was only throwing no shorter than 40ft, then fine. But he's only throwing 15ft to 40ft for those fish. So that rods needs the added weight to give it more flex for short loading. He might as well strap a fly reel to the handle of a buggy whip and tie a loop on the tip end, string the fly line up and use it!


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## Nway93 (May 9, 2016)

Ended up with sa redfish. Got a good deal on it and it was half the price of almost anything else. Took a few casts in the pond behind my house and it's a hell of a lot softer landing in close than the airflo and I feel like its a bit more accurate. Can't bomb it out there 80' as easily but it'll work for what I need it to do.


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## BOZTX (Feb 19, 2016)

Awesome, glad you found something that works well for the rod


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

BOZTX said:


> Awesome, glad you found something that works well for the rod


X2


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

That was fun reading. I have gone up a line weight on some my very fast Sage 2 rods and they work fine, but I am not casting 15-40'. I can see how a shorter rod would work for short cast


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

permitchaser said:


> That was fun reading. I have gone up a line weight on some my very fast Sage 2 rods and they work fine, but I am not casting 15-40'. I can see how a shorter rod would work for short cast


Dude, you have to try that lil TFO Hawgleg out, if Bass Pro still has them. That lil 7/8 will make you giggle and the 9/10 is a little cannon fer sure! If they made that lil 7/8 in a 9 footer, I'd be done for sure, stick a fork in me, done!


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