# Trolling motors, puzzler, isn’t it?



## KiKoKiK (Oct 20, 2017)

I'm running a 24v 80# Minn Kota. No fancy remote/GPS. I opted for the tiller model because I don't want to be fiddling around with a remote. I'd much rather have a tiller model for those times you have to make sudden maneuvers near docks or in tight mangroves.


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

I first hated the FCs, then I hated a tiller. Constantly fiddling with them to get where I wanted. The iPilot TM I now have is badass. I use almost all of the functions offered to fairly great extent. My favs are spot lock, track/backtrack, cruise control...hell just the ability as a bow thruster and autopilot during my idle in and out of my canal are reasons to spend the extra $.


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## free88 (Apr 18, 2017)

I would imagine a 70lb/24V TM would probably be more than enough for that boat, even with heavier loads, high winds, high current, etc. An 80lb/24V TM seems like wasteful overkill. If you are not trying to live and die on the TM, then a 55lb/12V will be adequate. 

If I can possibly mount a GPS model on a boat, I am totally going that way. Don't get me wrong, I like tillers. Nothing beats the tiller in tight spots where you need to make quick maneuvers. Everywhere else the GPS model is way, way better. Its not just a TM. Its a TM, a shallow water anchor, a deep water anchor, a co-pilot, etc. It makes the overall boating experience significantly better, particularly if you fish. I would much rather skimp or skip out on other things than forgo a GPS TM for fishing activities. 

MK vs MG (or others) is another discussion. I am fine with MK and have found their products to work well for me. I would be hesitant to buy MG, but only because I lack experience with them. I have the previous generation iPilot on my bay boat now and I am totally happy with it. The new generation iPilot has "improved" spot lock, which now matches MG's "improved" spot lock. I say "improved," because everything is plusses and minuses. It does hold a spot better from a certain point of view, but I suspect it also burns more battery doing it. My Gheenoe 15 4 has a Newport tiller at the bow (as mounting a GPS model would have been too troublesome). Totally happy with that product, and would buy another Newport tiller in the future.


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## Vertigo (Jun 3, 2012)

The biggest problem with trolling motors is that the cost has gotten out of control. By the time you add batteries, breakers, mount hardware, plugs, cable and chargers, the cost of a top of the line system can approach $3000. The OP has everything but the motor so the cost will be a little lower, but it's still crazy. I run a Minn Kota iPilot, and it's the fourth one I've owned over the years. All (except the last one) were sold or traded away as part of a boat deal. Only one ever had a warranty claim (the motor case leaked after I rammed it into a limestone rock) and it was handled very fairly and quickly. For fishing alone, or with others, the iPilot features make life a lot easier. I don't know about the bluetooth features and can't really understand why you'd want to control your TM with a phone. I'd go for the base 80# thrust iPilot model which new will still run you big bucks. If you shop CL, you may find a much better deal used.


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## jimsmicro (Oct 29, 2013)

I find it easier and faster to use a tiller than to fiddle with a remote. Now if I had a poling platform or a tower it would be very handy to drive remotely. But 99% of the fishing I do is in rock gardens that require me to make quick steering corrections or to increase or reduce speed quickly and I find the tiller is best for that. It's also a million times more simple to repair when necessary. All the parts are available quickly and cheaply and an idiot could repair a 5 speed Minn Kota trolling motor. I will even sometimes buy a used one and repair it rather than pay the thousand dollar premium for a new one.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

I recently put an 80# Ulterra on my poling skiff. To save weight I got Li-Ion batteries. Total cost around $3500. The rig saves me a huge amount of time on the water by being able to cross deep, muddy creeks from one flat to another without getting down off the poling platform. Also, when changing locations while I'm tilting the outboard down and starting it the TM is stowing itself and I'm ready to move immediately. We spend big bucks to get a shallow draft boat, and I'll spend some bucks to give me more fishing time while I'm on the water. 
I've owned 5 Minn-Kota Riptides and have had trouble with only one and that was taken care of under warranty. The paint comes off the motor and I repaint as needed with white appliance paint.
BTW, the Kipawa prop is great although I believe it will void the warranty.


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## GullsGoneWild (Dec 16, 2014)

I have the mk copilot. Not fancy GPS stuff but it does have a simple remote. On/off, go faster/go slower, turn left/turn right. Pretty simple to get use to since it doesn't have a lot of buttons. Feedback is instant and you can drive and adjust from anywhere on the boat. Tight quarters are not a problem when using the remote. The tiller handle will most likely get in your way when fly fishing solo. I know this because even my remote controlled TM will catch a fly line every now and then. More often than not its the coiled power cord that catches the fly line and not the head of the TM. I use mine around docks, in tight marsh drains, open water and around the jetties. Sometimes I wish I had more power but i've never wished for a tiller handle.


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## Rustyrotor (Nov 7, 2017)

Fantastic replies!


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## Rustyrotor (Nov 7, 2017)

Since I am trying to save a buck, do I really need a fancy, built in, smart charger? I do own a pretty sophisticated automotive charger already.


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## Rustyrotor (Nov 7, 2017)

Forgot:

Anyone done the “link” integration with Hummingbird?


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## Jpscott1 (May 2, 2017)

Get the on-board charger and don't save pennies here. Your batteries will last longer and you will save money in the long run.


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## trekker (Sep 19, 2015)

Surffshr said:


> I first hated the FCs, then I hated a tiller. Constantly fiddling with them to get where I wanted. The iPilot TM I now have is badass. I use almost all of the functions offered to fairly great extent. My favs are spot lock, track/backtrack, cruise control...hell just the ability as a bow thruster and autopilot during my idle in and out of my canal are reasons to spend the extra $.


Are you using the hand remote while fishing. Basically not interfaced with a fishfinder? Thanks.


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

Jpscott1 said:


> Get the on-board charger and don't save pennies here. Your batteries will last longer and you will save money in the long run.


Curious about this. I use a Guest portable 10A charger. I think it's an older version of this: http://www.marinco.com/en/2612a

I chose not go with an onboard charger because I've really tried to minimize weight on the boat.

I had assumed that a quality portable charger like this functioned the same as an onboard charger and that the drawback was just that it wasn't quite as convenient. Am I wrong on that?


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## Surffshr (Dec 28, 2017)

trekker said:


> Are you using the hand remote while fishing. Basically not interfaced with a fishfinder? Thanks.


Yes. You do not need a fish finder to set tracks or to take full advantage of the iPilot. The only feature a fish finder/gps would add is following a contour line from the gps map. I have no use for that. Even my remote is an old one with a little screen. 

Example, I have a track from my dock to GIWW. I hit the go button and it will follow that track with a few turns mixed in right to where I can get on plane. Same way coming back in. I normally put the big motor in gear and let the TM steer. To make this work well the TM needs to be on full go, but considering how bad my boat is handling wise a slow speed it is fantastic. Works great and I can use that time to rig or re-tie. (On the way home, I may even have an adult beverage). Also nice along GIWW or any shoreline you want to cruise. Here is where the cruise control to hold speed steady and direction hold work mostly for me. Gusty wind and varying currents mean much less dicking around to stay on a course. 

None of it is fully hands free, but I can effectively stand on my casting platform and work along any edge I want using the remote and other features.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

zthomas said:


> I chose not go with an onboard charger because I've really tried to minimize weight on the boat.


Amen.


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## tailchaser16 (Sep 23, 2008)

Stealth 1, AC & DC charger stacked together are 11 lbs. Does that really make a difference in a 16' boat?


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

FlyBy said:


> I recently put an 80# Ulterra on my poling skiff. To save weight I got Li-Ion batteries. Total cost around $3500. The rig saves me a huge amount of time on the water by being able to cross deep, muddy creeks from one flat to another without getting down off the poling platform. Also, when changing locations while I'm tilting the outboard down and starting it the TM is stowing itself and I'm ready to move immediately. We spend big bucks to get a shallow draft boat, and I'll spend some bucks to give me more fishing time while I'm on the water.
> I've owned 5 Minn-Kota Riptides and have had trouble with only one and that was taken care of under warranty. The paint comes off the motor and I repaint as needed with white appliance paint.
> BTW, the Kipawa prop is great although I believe it will void the warranty.


What did you like about the Kipawa prop? I had one but I don't think I gained anything in max speed. It did move the boat faster at lower speed settings but since top end seemed the same all it did was reduce adjustability at lower speeds. It was also much more difficult to remove the Kipawa prop to remove a tangle.


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## MariettaMike (Jun 14, 2012)

bowersmw said:


> What did you like about the Kipawa prop?


I've run the Kipawa props on an 80# iPilot and now a 112#.

The three blade Kipawa props are better balanced, run quieter and smoother than the stock two blade MinnKota props. This can easily be seen by the way the top of the TM shakes when you run the two blades, but not when you run the Kipawas.

And I haven't found any loss of adjustability because it runs more efficiently and thus lower settings. This saves a lot of battery drain, and will make my lithium batteries last even longer.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

If you go 24v get an 80, better more than you need than not enough.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

I’m in the tiller camp, I find it works really well when running tidal creeks and fishing around oyster bars. There are a lot of times where I’m spinning it around and hitting full throttle to avoid running into something, or having to lift it out of the water quickly. I can stand in the bow and run the motor with my left hand while fishing with my right, and it’s fun ripping through the little creeks like one of those Australian guys . 






Ok so not exactly, but it’s still fun. 

I would probably go with the remote/gps version on a larger flats or bay boat where you’re wanting to fish near channels and the edges of flats, and especially bridges. Anchoring near bridges that are busy really sucks, so does trying to run an outboard fighting the tide and still fish. 

If you’re only running one trolling motor battery, there’s no reason for an on-board charger IMO. I’m just going to run the NOCO Genius 10 amp, 1 bank charger with a trolling motor plug wired to the end, so I can just plug it into the boat. If you’ve got multiple batteries to charge, I’d probably go on-board versus having the remember to move the charger around during the week.


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## dranrab (Oct 9, 2016)

I will tell you a story that may or may not have value to you. I had a Hoog flats boat in August of 2005. I used a basic black Minn Kota tiller steer 55# trolling motor on it. As Hurricane Katrina approached I evacuated my boat but had left the motor in my storage room. My house was demolished. The entire motor was submerged in salt muck. I recovered the motor but didn't have a chance to do anything with it for months. I finally opened the head up. I cleaned the dried mud out of it, sprayed it down with CRC, put it back together and it ran like a champ. 

Don't think for a second that you need to pay the white motor premium. KISS!


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

bowersmw said:


> What did you like about the Kipawa prop? I had one but I don't think I gained anything in max speed. It did move the boat faster at lower speed settings but since top end seemed the same all it did was reduce adjustability at lower speeds. It was also much more difficult to remove the Kipawa prop to remove a tangle.


The highest speed I ran it was 6 and it seemed like the boat was moving as fast as it had on 8 with the Minn-Kota prop so I figure it will be more efficient on battery use. 80# is more than I need on the skiff but it was the smallest Ulterra they make.


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## Rustyrotor (Nov 7, 2017)

Thanks for all the interesting and useful info.
A few more questions if I may:

Have been going over the boat today, among other things making sure I wasnt missing a hidden circuit breaker for the prior TM. Nope, not present.

Where is the most rational place to put one?
Is there a preferred brand and configuration for this application?

It's 31" from the mounting plate to the trailer rail, which kinda matches the waterline. Definitely go for the 60", right?

Li-Ion batts are out of the question.
At the same time, I know that cheap is expensive.
In your experience, what are the most durable batteries in this application?
AGM? Flooded? Any brand preferences? Does it even matter as long as they're not
some random no-name?

Minn Kota's website is noticeably silent on the subject, which you would imagine they would want to manage a little.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

Put the circuit breaker near the battery. Get one with a push button to trip it and it will work as a switch for your TM.
AGM batteries, I have Optima but Sam's Club, as mentioned before, has great prices.
I don't know if Li-Ion batteries are superior in any way other than weight. That's why I got them. They might last longer, but who knows.
54" should be long enough. 60" will just stick out that much more when stowed.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

I would go with Minn Kota if I was buying something new after one year with my MG.


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## devrep (Feb 22, 2009)

AGM's work great. I favor the blue tops but I have 2 bass pro deep cells in my red boat, one says august 2013 (I usually mark dates on my stuff with a sharpie). The other one is even older. They don't last as long as they used to but still last all day fighting the tidal currents at crystal river. Either a testament to those batts or to the dual pro sportsman I have charging them. Or both.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

One of my buddies is going from a 24 v to 36 v TM. The two AGM batteries he has are from around 2012 and I had one from 2012 that I let him have. We thought it would be better to have three about the same age instead of putting a new one with two old ones. We'll see how they hold up. He has a Dual Pro.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

I have a tiller 24 v. My suggestion is a tiller. 
My Buddy had pilot in his boat and fast turns where out of the question and if you have someone on the front you can't see where it pointing. He took it off and put on a tiller 24v on his lostman


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## 994 (Apr 14, 2008)

I wish Milwaukee or Dewalt would make an 18v trolling motor so I could use all my tool batteries.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Jun 20, 2015)

Spot lock is sweet! Using the remote units in tight creeks is a royal pain at first. It gets easier over time.


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## yobata (Jul 14, 2015)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I wish Milwaukee or Dewalt would make an 18v trolling motor so I could use all my tool batteries.


My Makita tools love their 18v lithium batteries. Weeks between recharges and doesn't skip a beat!


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

yobata said:


> My Makita tools love their 18v lithium batteries. Weeks between recharges and doesn't skip a beat!


A big rechargeable lithium that snaps in the trolling motor head would be awesome. Keep a couple spares fully charged in the console charging off the motor...
I have had my Makita 18v drill and impact for about 6 years and still using the same two batteries. I drilled at least 2000 3/16 rivet holes in my last aluminum boat frame, for reaming custom rod grips and no telling how many other holes. I use the impact on my truck with the 3/8” socket driver adapter too. Hands down the best tools I own.


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## Rustyrotor (Nov 7, 2017)

Highjack alert!

So whatever you’re looking for, it’s always in the last place you look right?

So after I placed an order with the folks from Nebraska, I find this:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Minn-Kota-Riptide-Terrova-i-Pilot-Link-RT80-ST-LINK-80-54-iPilot-Remote-1379791/132536926003hash=item1edbd0ff33:g:bqYAAOSwKZ5Z1TQR

Would you? Know anyone who has?
Am gonna ring em up see how legit they are. Can always return the new one.


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

FlyBy said:


> The highest speed I ran it was 6 and it seemed like the boat was moving as fast as it had on 8 with the Minn-Kota prop so I figure it will be more efficient on battery use. 80# is more than I need on the skiff but it was the smallest Ulterra they make.


I had a similar result with speed settings. But that's the same as putting a bigger prop on your outboard and running less RPMs so you claim the bigger prop is more efficient. Unfortunately until we look at actual fuel burned we don't know which prop is truly more efficient. I don't think anyone actually looks at watts per mile so it's all just arm waving and gut feel about which prop is more efficient. Even Kipawa doesn't seem to have any hard numbers on their website. If anyone has hard numbers I would love to see them.


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## jay.bush1434 (Dec 27, 2014)

Battery wise, Li-Ion is the ticket. They are expensive though. Next best is probably Odyssey batteries. They are maintenance free thin lead plate flooded batteries. They have the best amp hour rating for the size of any battery I know of. I have two of them for my Ulterra and it runs all day. My next favorite are Optimas. They are spiral wound AGM's. I have had Optimas on my old boat for 5 years and still going strong. Your results may vary.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

mosquitolaGOON said:


> I wish Milwaukee or Dewalt would make an 18v trolling motor so I could use all my tool batteries.





yobata said:


> My Makita tools love their 18v lithium batteries. Weeks between recharges and doesn't skip a beat!





Smackdaddy53 said:


> A big rechargeable lithium that snaps in the trolling motor head would be awesome. Keep a couple spares fully charged in the console charging off the motor...
> I have had my Makita 18v drill and impact for about 6 years and still using the same two batteries. I drilled at least 2000 3/16 rivet holes in my last aluminum boat frame, for reaming custom rod grips and no telling how many other holes. I use the impact on my truck with the 3/8” socket driver adapter too. Hands down the best tools I own.


It would be sweet, but the tool batteries don’t have ANYWHERE near the run time of a deep cycle, or even enough to be useful. An 18v 6.0 aH tool battery (largest available except for the Milwaukee 9.0), would run a 45 lb thrust trolling motor at top speed for less than 15 minutes. 

I have a pair of deep cycle golf cart batteries wired in parallel in my work trailer, running an inverter and fast 120v charger. Even with the efficiency losses, I can charge a lot of tool batteries off them. 

I think the yard equipment battery packs will show some promise for things like this eventually, if you look at stuff lik Dewalt’s 40v and EGO 56v. It would be possible to have a higher voltage trolling motor that is more powerful than even the 100 lb thrust class, along with usable run time. If solar charging technology can catch up, you might be able to get by with a pair of batteries being switched over every 2 hours. The downside is they are about $250 each, and by that point standard full sized lithium batteries will be cheaper as well.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

bowersmw said:


> I had a similar result with speed settings. But that's the same as putting a bigger prop on your outboard and running less RPMs so you claim the bigger prop is more efficient. Unfortunately until we look at actual fuel burned we don't know which prop is truly more efficient. I don't think anyone actually looks at watts per mile so it's all just arm waving and gut feel about which prop is more efficient. Even Kipawa doesn't seem to have any hard numbers on their website. If anyone has hard numbers I would love to see them.


Yeah, it's just a gut feeling. The TM might have the same draw at 6 with the Kipawa as 8 with the MK prop. I'll know more as I run it and see how long it takes the batteries to charge. Still don't know of any way to compare objectively.


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## zthomas (Jan 14, 2014)

tailchaser16 said:


> Stealth 1, AC & DC charger stacked together are 11 lbs. Does that really make a difference in a 16' boat?


No, not really.

But in my opinion saving weight isn't a matter just of forgoing the obvious heavy stuff, like a 30-gallon livewell. It's a matter of saving a few pounds wherever you can. If you take the "does this 10 lbs. really matter?" approach to everything you add — trolling motors, coolers, batteries, toolbox, seats, etc. etc. — those extra 5s and 10s add up fast and pretty soon turn into an extra one or two hundred pounds. And that does make a difference.

I grew up backpacking and climbing, and learned pretty quick that to keep your pack light, you have to be conscious of every ounce that goes in — not just the big pieces of gear. No sense buying a space-age, super-light tent to save a couple pounds and then adding it right back in the form of little stuff you don't really think about, like clothes that are heavier than they need to be.

I'd say the same goes for skiffs. It's easy to get wound up about buying a battery that's 20 or 30 lbs. lighter but then turn right around and negate the savings with something like a tackle bag or tool kit that has 10 or 20 lbs. of crap in it that you haven't used since 2007.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Apr 4, 2015)

zthomas said:


> Not, not really.
> 
> But in my opinion saving weight isn't a matter just of forgoing the obvious heavy stuff, like a 30-gallon livewell. It's a matter of saving a few pounds wherever you can. If you take the "does this 10 lbs. really matter?" approach to everything you add — trolling motors, coolers, batteries, toolbox, seats, etc. etc. — those extra 5s and 10s add up fast and pretty soon turn into an extra one or two hundred pounds. And that does make a difference.
> 
> ...


Agreed. For me it comes down to simplicity more than a few lbs of weight. An on board charger is another thing to have nets and life jackets get snagged on, an anchor damage the power cord, screws rip or rust out, require troubleshooting and tools to replace when it fails, etc. For charging a single battery I’d rather just add a quick connect plug to the skiff and leave the charger off. Throw it in when needed on multi day trips with access to power.


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

FlyBy said:


> Yeah, it's just a gut feeling. The TM might have the same draw at 6 with the Kipawa as 8 with the MK prop. I'll know more as I run it and see how long it takes the batteries to charge. Still don't know of any way to compare objectively.


I think top speed is a good comparison. I sold the motor with the Kipawa prop or I would do the test. Especially if you did a run with prop A, two runs with prop B and then again with prop A. I would trust but possibly verify your results.


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> Agreed. For me it comes down to simplicity more than a few lbs of weight. An on board charger is another thing to have nets and life jackets get snagged on, an anchor damage the power cord, screws rip or rust out, require troubleshooting and tools to replace when it fails, etc. For charging a single battery I’d rather just add a quick connect plug to the skiff and leave the charger off. Throw it in when needed on multi day trips with access to power.


The Stealth DC is 3.5# and tiny. You could even downsize your batteries due to on the water charging and come out negative in weight. The Stealth will also help your AC charging because when at shore power you can just attach a removable AC charger to main battery and the Stealth will distribute the charge to TM batteries automatically. If you're camping then the Stealth is critical if you want a TM after day 1.


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

For the people that say tiller are you fly fishing as OP mentioned? I lost fish on fly with a tiller but pretty sure I haven't with iPilot. Just point motor once and hit prop: motor will hold a heading and not go in circles like a tiller. Also you can have multiple remotes so when bow angler hooks up, poling platform guy can take over. Try doing that with a tiller!  Another thing I like about the iPilot for fly is the digital speed settings. I know 2.5 gives me the right balance between covering water and controlling fly. With an infinite throttle it takes fiddling every time to get speed versus set it and forget it with iPilot. 

One tip that everyone I've shown seems to love is using the legacy auto pilot on Minn Kota. Don't know if similar applies to other brands. Advanced auto pilot is the default but that seems to try too hard to hold a course over ground. The legacy auto pilot just holds a heading which works better in currents ie saltwater. Try it, I think you'll like it.


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## FlyBy (Jul 12, 2013)

Top speed will be one indicator but I still won't know if it's drawing more amps with the Kipawa.


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## bowersmw (Mar 3, 2011)

Rustyrotor said:


> Forgot:
> 
> Anyone done the “link” integration with Hummingbird?


I just did a new Link with a Humminbird Solix and tried it out today. Wow is about all I can say. Still learning the details but very cool stuff. It's got depth, temp, battery on remote and can mark a waypoint with the remote.


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## WhiteDog70810 (May 6, 2008)

I am a horrible multitasker, so a TM that could handle some of the mundane details would be awesome. If I could afford an autopilot TM, I’d have one. As is, I’ll end up with a tiller TM.

Nate


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