# Tarpon input please



## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

I could use some help from the brain trust, heres the scenario-
Migratory fish (avg 60lb +\-)
Dirty brown water
Aggressively Feeding on big schools of adult mullet in 2-6’ depths. 

Anyone have a pattern/color that seems to produce or crack the code for these scenarios? I’m striking out with standard and fairly large size baitfish patterns all I can think of is to keep going bigger. I can hardly get a strike out of these fish. I’ve stepped up leader length and stepped down leader diameter, tried every trick I can think of and nada.. water is too dark to sight cast so it’s really a game of waiting for them to break the surface or just blind casting around scattering mullet. 
Thanks!


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## timogleason (Jul 27, 2013)

Did you try an intermediate line? They may be heading right back to thee bottom. Black and Purple!


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

Ya went to a intermediate/ghost tip. They were in about 4’ yesterday I didn’t think a full intermediate would make a difference. Black/purple are the main colors I’ve been throwing at them, the juves love those colors in the same area but wasn’t working for the traveling fish. The next fly I’m going to try is a really big blk/prpl tarpon snake unless I can think of something else.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Tarpon Snake, size 4/0 six to seven inches long with large beadchain eyes.... in the original color -all black - see photo...Count it down until you're pretty sure it's on the bottom and strip it very slowly in long strips with a tiny twitch at the end of each strip....until it stops... We've also scored with fl. green and white fishing the fly right in their faces and moving it like the mullet do... but the deep and slow method rarely fails where we are in the 'glades in and around small rivers that drain out onto the Gulf coast out of Flamingo...

Remember, though, big fish gorging on mullet can be very, very picky about what they're eating... If I have a fly angler aboard we'll keep after them trying our best not to push or spook the school of big silver... but with most anglers that just want the thrill of a big tarpon - that fly rod isn't exactly the first thing we reach for when they're on schooled mullet or other bait....

















Hope this helps


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## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

I was gonna suggest a 14-inch weighted Hogy Until I remembered this is the Flyfishing forum.


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

There's an EP mullet pattern on YouTube. I use Congo fur but make it with big bead chain eyes


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

It does thanks, I have one right here I was going to try. They really only want live bait but I’m on a mission, we get so many fish come through that only want mullet I’m determined to find a way to get them on fly. I try not to break out the cast net and spin tackle unless the kids are with me. It gets aggravating but it wouldn’t be fun if it was easy!


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

Dbl post


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

The little fellas will eat gurglers as fast as you can get it in front of them but the big girls won’t touch them at this point in time. Unless they mistake it for a bruiser mullet I don’t think they’ll touch it.


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## IRLyRiser (Feb 14, 2007)

I was in the glades one day with tarpon rolling in everywhere. No real sight fishing, just casting to rollers. Nothing. Some guys came past me throwing plugs and were getting tons of eats/jumps etc. I switched to an intermediate and a heavy fly, counted it down to almost the bottom, and had an eat on the first or second cast. They’re not a ton of fun to throw but sometimes sinking lines are what it takes.


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## Sardina (Feb 16, 2019)

https://www.epflies.com/product/rooster-fish-mullet-4-0/


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

Thanks everybody, those ep mullet might be worth trying too thanks for the link!

Yes Ive tried about everything that works on the local fish but those big travelers are completely dialed in on the big mullet in this particular area. I haven't been able to get theyre attention doing anything with any fly ive tried yet, I'll try dragging the snake next time im out. The big beach cruising fish feeding on smaller bait aren't as picky but these fish are driving me up a wall..


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

I haven't spent much time throwing to the rollers, they might be easier to get a bite from. Its too hard to see them tossing mullet around that violently and not try to get in on that action!


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

hmmm post #7 - that looks familiar.... make a point of fishing all the way back to the boat -move it long and slow and just never stop... More than one guy got a bite, a big surprise, and a bath - all at the same moment fishing the Snake as fish even slap the hull with their tails as they eat the thing (when they really want it....).


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## georgiadrifter (Jan 14, 2009)

lemaymiami said:


> hmmm post #7 - that looks familiar.... make a point of fishing all the way back to the boat -move it long and slow and just never stop... More than one guy got a bite, a big surprise, and a bath - all at the same moment fishing the Snake as fish even slap the hull with their tails as they eat the thing (when they really want it....).


Bob...do you still tie for Florida Keys Outfitters? Any thoughts about tying and selling a “tarpon sampler?”


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

I will bob thanks. What’s funny is more than once I’ve watched the smaller fish hide out next to and under the boat, yesterday I had one follow me when I bumped forward too. I’d guess they’re using it as a blind spot to ambush mullet from, the smaller fish were slamming mullet within 10’ of me pretty consistently. I’ve had them swim into my trolling motor in two completely different places in the last month too. I’m not sure why, maybe it’s just me, but they sure like to hang out around my rig. Tarpon are the only fish I’ve noticed that with for whatever reason, but then again they’re the only fish I really put much effort into lately. 
Thanks again everybody.


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## Steve_Mevers (Feb 8, 2013)

lemaymiami said:


> Tarpon Snake, size 4/0 six to seven inches long with large beadchain eyes.... in the original color -all black - see photo...Count it down until you're pretty sure it's on the bottom and strip it very slowly in long strips with a tiny twitch at the end of each strip....until it stops... We've also scored with fl. green and white fishing the fly right in their faces and moving it like the mullet do... but the deep and slow method rarely fails where we are in the 'glades in and around small rivers that drain out onto the Gulf coast out of Flamingo...
> 
> Remember, though, big fish gorging on mullet can be very, very picky about what they're eating... If I have a fly angler aboard we'll keep after them trying our best not to push or spook the school of big silver... but with most anglers that just want the thrill of a big tarpon - that fly rod isn't exactly the first thing we reach for when they're on schooled mullet or other bait....
> 
> ...


That Black Tarpon Snake worked for me near Lake Ingram when they were feeding on mullet.


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## Smackdaddy53 (Dec 31, 2012)

I know that with lures and conventional gear you have to get a fast sinking coonpop or plug in the strike zone very quickly if sight casting at rollers. Bigger hooks, more sparse patterns so they sink fast.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks for the interest but my commercial tying days are pretty much over (unless I'm forced to quit guiding....). I'm still making leadheads and bucktail jigs in quantity -but pretty much burned out on fly tying. The only serious tying I'm doing these days is just enough to have flies for my charters. The good news is that Umpqua Feather Merchants has been doing the Tarpon Snake and others for some years now so any shop that deals with them will be able to get them (and I'm still drawing a tiny royalty on each one....).

As for tossing plugs at rollers - here's how I have my anglers go about it. We toss the hardware past the fish about 20 feet and in front of them about ten feet (farther if they're moving much...) then simply count the gear down until we're near the bottom - then work a slow retrieve - just enough to keep the lure (hard bait or something like a DOA Baitbuster...) just off the bottom. Tarpon eating lures are the laziest fish around and don't want to chase anything. Of course all of that changes when you hook one. We mostly fish places with a bit of current so up-current and across is what works the best for us - allowing the gear to sink down to where the fish are holding... and swing in front of them as you retrieve it. No real "magic" just the physics of big fish holding near the bottom - no matter what you see them doing at the surface....


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Tarpon tickler said:


> I could use some help from the brain trust, heres the scenario-
> Migratory fish (avg 60lb +\-)
> Dirty brown water
> Aggressively Feeding on big schools of adult mullet in 2-6’ depths.
> ...


You must be fishing the east coast mullet run. If so, most of those fish are sitting or moving on the bottom and looking up at the schools. Yes you will see eats or rollers up top, but you have to get the fly down to where the fish are and unfortunately, that's where most of the fish will be. So yes, a full intermediate sink line (prefer clear) or even a full slow sink line. Even a intermediate tip on a floating line will cause the fly to rise, which is not what you want to do. Those fish want that fly to run steady and in the same horizontal plane as the fish, when they are in that mode and on that bait.

Speaking of bait..... Match the hatch! They are keying in on the mullet (hopefully for your sake, the smaller ones). So give them a big and bushy mullet fly that mimics what they are feeding on. All natural colored mullet patterns would be good and a few on the opposite side (All black, all purple or all white, char/white, red head/white body). Capt Bob makes one of the best looking commercially tied mullet fly. But depending on your water depth, his is tied with spun deer body and/or belly hair, so the hair will want to float, so you have to compensate that with a larger, heavier hook and hope the line pulls it down where it needs to be and keeps it there. But if you tie or know some who does, you can tie the head with an EP brush so that the fibers don't hold air and it will sink faster without some oversized hook that will stick out like a sore thumb. The dirty water will help fo sho with that tho. So I'd try to tie it on a 3/0 or 4/0 Owner 5170 Cutting Point Aki hook. The trick with the fly tho is tying the head big and bushy so it will push a lot of water and not be so streamlined. THAT will attract the fish more than contrasting colors. Trust me when I say that these types of flies are nothing like what you see used down in the Keys.

Those beaches are deeper out there, so you have to throw it and count it down COMPLETELY (as painful as it can be, then count some more). Then like Capt Bob said, long and slow and steadily stripping like the thing is steadily moving along with the school and not jerking around. The fact that the fly will look slightly different will be enough for it to stand out in the crowd (and hopefully below the bait pod). If possible, throw up stream to the bait and pull your fly along with the bait as it's coming straight at you, but hopefully below the school where the poons are waiting. If not, try throwing at a 45 degree angle, going somewhat with the school of mullet, but at the rear of the school. The poons will swim behind the school and look for stragglers, while constantly pushing the school(s).

As you may not want to hear this.... unfortunately, all of this means you are not sight casting to fish, but rather using fish up top to indicate where the rest of the fish are, then blind casting out to them, letting the fly fully sink, then working it back towards you. So it's really blind casting and a lot of it. Thos a 10wt will work for 60lb fish, I highly recommend using an 11 or 12wt as you will be throwing larger flies and fishing fish in deeper waters. But unfortunately for you, (yet again), those rods will wear you out in short order blind casting them. That's why not many fly fisherman chase them that way. So.... Go get some pushups in! 

I hope that makes sense.

You got this! You can make it happen! 

Ted Haas


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## Tarpon tickler (Jul 15, 2019)

Ya man treasure coast. The Fish giving me hell are right by my house. There’s others much more willing to eat about 20 minutes away but I want the big lockjaw fish here. Don’t ask me why because I don’t know, just on a mission I guess.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Tarpon tickler said:


> Ya man treasure coast. The Fish giving me hell are right by my house. There’s others much more willing to eat about 20 minutes away but I want the big lockjaw fish here. Don’t ask me why because I don’t know, just on a mission I guess.


That's what I figured! 

Those kinda missions are what keeps it interesting and a challenge.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

lemaymiami said:


> Thanks for the interest but my commercial tying days are pretty much over (unless I'm forced to quit guiding....). I'm still making leadheads and bucktail jigs in quantity -but pretty much burned out on fly tying. The only serious tying I'm doing these days is just enough to have flies for my charters. The good news is that Umpqua Feather Merchants has been doing the Tarpon Snake and others for some years now so any shop that deals with them will be able to get them (and I'm still drawing a tiny royalty on each one....).
> 
> As for tossing plugs at rollers - here's how I have my anglers go about it. We toss the hardware past the fish about 20 feet and in front of them about ten feet (farther if they're moving much...) then simply count the gear down until we're near the bottom - then work a slow retrieve - just enough to keep the lure (hard bait or something like a DOA Baitbuster...) just off the bottom. Tarpon eating lures are the laziest fish around and don't want to chase anything. Of course all of that changes when you hook one. We mostly fish places with a bit of current so up-current and across is what works the best for us - allowing the gear to sink down to where the fish are holding... and swing in front of them as you retrieve it. No real "magic" just the physics of big fish holding near the bottom - no matter what you see them doing at the surface....


I followed this advice and got several strikes from big tarpon on a Tarpon Snake fished on the bottom on full sink line. Unfortunately, I planning to fish for snook, so I was only using a 9WT and could not set the hook effectively.

I have an 11 weight and I'm looking for a sinking line for it, is this line appropriate for this type of fishing?

https://www.scientificanglers.com/product/sonar-titan-full-intermediate/

Or can anyone make a recommendation on a good line for this?


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Not bad... I’m using Rio intermediate lines with good results these days - but the SA lines are just as good...

Although I'm known for working big flies in the backcountry for big tarpon.. we still work the smaller fish at night here locally in Biscayne Bay... These pics are from last Tuesday night when my first time tarpon angler Rob Henry from up north jumped six fish and got two to the boat in a bay that still has a bit of life left in it... 

The rod is an 8wt with a floating line and the fish was around 25 pounds.. All the fish that night were sight fished....

















Be a hero, take a kid fishing


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

So the tarpon are back. I got several shots with a fly yesterday afternoon. I am still really new to this but I think they were legit shots. But no interest.

The fish were in the 60-100 lb range I would estimate. I could often see them holding in very dark water just below the surface from between right next to or under the boat to about 50' out.

In two cases the fish literally swam right up to the boat. It seemed sort of like they were checking me out because both times I got the distinct impression that the fish rolled over on their side about 1' under the surface (depth was about 12') and locked eyes with me. The second time it happened it was a big fish (as far as I'm concerned) probably 6' long. She swam right up to the gunnel, rolled on her side a little, stopped, and looked up at me for a second or two. Then slid under the boat. Her tail practically touched the gunnel as she went under. 

Is this normal behavior? It reminded me of the handful of times I have been around super relaxed redfish that will just pick up a bait you drop right next to the boat.

I did drop a fly in front of the fish that swam under the boat. It was tarpon snake tied in white. I got three casts as the fish swam away, and the final one lined her and she headed down deeper.

I know a lot of people would be frustrated by this, and maybe I should be. But it felt like I was making progress at identifying when the fish will be there and how I should approach them. It was also really exciting to see this big fish up close and sort of interact with them. Having a wild animal that big and that close make eye contact with me definitely got my blood flowing.

Any advice from more experienced catching Tarpon on would be welcome. Thanks for reading.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Great fun, tossing flies (or anything) at tarpon -even if they’re not particularly interested... Find those same fish at first light, then hang on to whatever rod you’re using... Tarpon are night feeders and will feed in daytime but your best bet are those first dawn moments when you can see them - but the sun hasn’t quite risen or the last light of day as the sun is setting...

One thing I’ve seen over and over again with first time tarpon anglers using fly gear. It’s that most are never prepared when a big fish actually bites their fly those first few times. They’re used to fishing for smaller fish where they don’t have to really hold on to the line with their stripping hand and as a result can’t hook them... I actually have a drill or two to help first timers get hooked up but it’s still a learning process.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

lemaymiami said:


> Great fun, tossing flies (or anything) at tarpon -even if they’re not particularly interested... Find those same fish at first light, then hang on to whatever rod you’re using... Tarpon are night feeders and will feed in daytime but your best bet are those first dawn moments when you can see them - but the sun hasn’t quite risen or the last light of day as the sun is setting...
> 
> One thing I’ve seen over and over again with first time tarpon anglers using fly gear. It’s that most are never prepared when a big fish actually bites their fly those first few times. They’re used to fishing for smaller fish where they don’t have to really hold on to the line with their stripping hand and as a result can’t hook them... I actually have a drill or two to help first timers get hooked up but it’s still a learning process.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy the ride.


Thanks for weighing in Captain. I promise I am going to come down there and book you for a couple of days for all of the good advice you have given me about these fish.

And you are 100% correct on the "not holding on problem" for rookies (Even 49 Year Old rookies). When you gave me the tip about the tarpon snake and sinking line. I was in no way prepared to set the hook when I got my first take. Snook, Trout, Reds, etc, it is second nature, you just strip and they are hooked. Not that big girl, she took it and when I tried to strip it just stopped. I was puzzled for a split second, and by the time I realized what had happened she had let go. Again, I should have been frustrated, but I was thrilled. It was a step in the right direction, just like yesterday.

And yesterday when I was making my retrieves, I was thinking through the steps "Be ready for a take, Make Three Hard Yanks, Press fighting butt against Forearm, Clear Line, Pray" 

We have a favorable tide on Saturday at dawn. Weather permitting I'm gonna be staked out before first light.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

If I was doing what Capt Bob suggested, then at 1st light till just before dawn, just sit there, studying and reading the water. Look for anything or any sign that gives you an indication they might be there. Bubbles, a fin, some wake, bait pushing, etc. Sometimes they will just lay there down on the bottom just before sunrise to several minutes after sunrise, they'll pop up and be looking for a morning snack before grouping up to plan on where they will be heading that morning. That means, this time of year, they'll be looking at the big female to see what she decides to do. That can mean they could come up top and sit there like laid up fish and mill around for a few minutes until the lead fish decides to head out. Then the rest will follow.

AT this point, you only have a few minutes to ease over and show them something they could eat, because like you or me, they want something to nibble on before they hit the road. You only have just a few minutes to make this whole thing happen. So I'd show them something way smaller than the Tarpon Snake you have there and revert to a small and dark toad, or tarpon bunny or a small ep style mullet (small). You'll be surprise to see that at that point, they will eat and then the rest of the day you can get zero'ed out by the same fish. Otherwise, you have to revert to other methods when the fish are doing other things throughout the day.

As far as getting eyeballed at the boat. I love that when it happens and with my warped brain, I'll actually talk to them. Lol If they are at the boat, forget trying to get them to eat. They wouldn't! The issue was really you weren't looking out ahead of you with your head on a swivel and trying to spot signs way out there that they were coming, until they got right on top of you. So in this case, stop trying to sight them in the water because by the time you see them, they see you and it's too late. So your "sight" fishing "HAS" to be you looking way out and away from you (100-200ft, 100-200yrds, 1/4-1/2mile away....) all around to see if you can see any movements in the water. Then target that when you can forecast them either heading your way within casting distance, *or*, getting yourself to ease over with the boat "without making noise" and getting within max casting distance from a good cast that will be inline to their path that they are pushing on.

So that cast has to be forecasted where you can lay out your perfect long cast and get set up to start stripping it (without banging around making noise), before they are on top of it, by leading them 10-20ft, and then at least 5ft before making the fly work, so that by the time they intersect the fly, it's moving naturally and it's only a foot or two from the fish's eyeball level.

This whole idea that you can just flip a fly over to a fish 5-20ft from the boat after they got a good look at you and they'll eat like a dumb Louisianan redfish, will only get you zero'ed out every time you do it.

Ted


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

Backwater said:


> If I was doing what Capt Bob suggested, then at 1st light till just before dawn, just sit there, studying and reading the water. Look for anything or any sign that gives you an indication they might be there. Bubbles, a fin, some wake, bait pushing, etc. Sometimes they will just lay there down on the bottom just before sunrise to several minutes after sunrise, they'll pop up and be looking for a morning snack before grouping up to plan on where they will be heading that morning. That means, this time of year, they'll be looking at the big female to she what she decides to do. That can mean they could come up top and sit there like laid up fish and mill around for a few minutes until the lead fish decides to head out. Then the rest will follow.
> 
> AT this point, you only have a few minutes to ease over and show them something they could eat, because like you or me, they want something to nibble on before they hit the road. You only have just a few minutes to make this whole thing happen. So I'd show them something way smaller than the Tarpon Snake you have there and revert to a small and dark toad, or tarpon bunny or a small ep style mullet (small). You'll be surprise to see that at that point, they will eat and then the rest of the day you can get zero'ed out by the same fish. Otherwise, you have to revert to other methods when the fish are doing other things throughout the day.
> 
> ...


That’s great info, thanks so much Ted. I do see them way out often, I definitely need to work on my casting.

and I did go on Saturday morning and you and captain bob are right they were around from just before and to just after sunrise. And it was a wide variety of sizes, from a at least one large fish to several juveniles down to about 10 lbs.

I did not get a take, but I’m going to keep trying. Just being out there for the sunrise is rewarding enough. And the process of learning about these fish is fascinating. If I ever do get one on fly, it will be the most rewarding fish I’ve ever caught for sure. I can see why people Write books about to this type of fishing.

thanks again to everyone for the great info. I will keep posting my progress.


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## Scrob (Aug 26, 2015)

Following your progress, keep us posted! Good luck


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

lemaymiami said:


> Great fun, tossing flies (or anything) at tarpon -even if they’re not particularly interested... Find those same fish at first light, then hang on to whatever rod you’re using... Tarpon are night feeders and will feed in daytime but your best bet are those first dawn moments when you can see them - but the sun hasn’t quite risen or the last light of day as the sun is setting...
> 
> One thing I’ve seen over and over again with first time tarpon anglers using fly gear. It’s that most are never prepared when a big fish actually bites their fly those first few times. They’re used to fishing for smaller fish where they don’t have to really hold on to the line with their stripping hand and as a result can’t hook them... I actually have a drill or two to help first timers get hooked up but it’s still a learning process.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy the ride.


 well said capt. and for the love off all things fly..... DON'T TROUT SET!!!!! that mouth is solid bone, keep the rod pointed at the fish, take the slack and drive that hook DEEP!!! there's enough stretch that you wont break your leader, no matter how hard you set.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

Backwater said:


> If I was doing what Capt Bob suggested, then at 1st light till just before dawn, just sit there, studying and reading the water. Look for anything or any sign that gives you an indication they might be there. Bubbles, a fin, some wake, bait pushing, etc. Sometimes they will just lay there down on the bottom just before sunrise to several minutes after sunrise, they'll pop up and be looking for a morning snack before grouping up to plan on where they will be heading that morning. That means, this time of year, they'll be looking at the big female to she what she decides to do. That can mean they could come up top and sit there like laid up fish and mill around for a few minutes until the lead fish decides to head out. Then the rest will follow.
> 
> AT this point, you only have a few minutes to ease over and show them something they could eat, because like you or me, they want something to nibble on before they hit the road. You only have just a few minutes to make this whole thing happen. So I'd show them something way smaller than the Tarpon Snake you have there and revert to a small and dark toad, or tarpon bunny or a small ep style mullet (small). You'll be surprise to see that at that point, they will eat and then the rest of the day you can get zero'ed out by the same fish. Otherwise, you have to revert to other methods when the fish are doing other things throughout the day.
> 
> ...


Also, how far should I be able to cast accurately, is 50’ enough or do I need to be able to get the entire line out? Also, in dark water, and I mean clear but black coffee colored, how much do I need to worry about them seeing the fly line? The take i got last summer was on a nine weight and it is loaded with black full sink line. Should I put that on my 11wt?

and sorry, one more question on the fly line. It seems like I should have a floating and sinking line because sometimes they are sitting up on the surface. Should I just start carrying two rods? I ask because if there’s a cheaper way to do it I am all ears


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

to start, just use a floating line that you can see well. as your skill increases with time, you can move to a clear line if you wish. that is only realllly helpful when you are dealing with crystal clear water. with tannin water, i personally wouldnt worry about it. learn to tie your own leaders and figure out how to get a taper that works for you so you have a 10-12 ft leader if they get finniky. most shots in my past has been in the 45-70ft area. past that youre really just hoping and praying. furthermore, id be more concerned of casting in 20kt winds while in 2-3ft rollers. accuracy in calm weather is nice, but placing those shots when the boat is moving 20 different directions at the same time with a crosswind that hates you is more important than distance or line color. i think all of poon addicts can say some of our best fishing days were the worst weather days..... just my 2 pennies.


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## Water Bound (Dec 12, 2018)

Ha that’s what I thought too. I had the mind set to strip hard like the guys on TV, the exaggerated yanking against the fish with arm extended behind the back.

My first tarpon on the fly experience I broke my first two off at the strip set and was actually amazed at how easy the 30 popped. My guide was like wtf, you just popped 30 like it was 10! I wasn’t even close to the exaggerated TV set!

The next two eats I started letting the line go as soon as I felt the fish and the sets were by no means hard but they worked out much better!

I guess there’s a fine line in there somewhere. That day was a crazy day with breakers coming over the bow, so I may have been a little tense from trying to just stay on the skiff 



Rick hambric said:


> well said capt. and for the love off all things fly..... DON'T TROUT SET!!!!! that mouth is solid bone, keep the rod pointed at the fish, take the slack and drive that hook DEEP!!! there's enough stretch that you wont break your leader, no matter how hard you set.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Bill Payne said:


> Also, how far should I be able to cast accurately, is 50’ enough or do I need to be able to get the entire line out? Also, in dark water, and I mean clear but black coffee colored, how much do I need to worry about them seeing the fly line? The take i got last summer was on a nine weight and it is loaded with black full sink line. Should I put that on my 11wt?
> 
> and sorry, one more question on the fly line. It seems like I should have a floating and sinking line because sometimes they are sitting up on the surface. Should I just start carrying two rods? I ask because if there’s a cheaper way to do it I am all ears


Normally, I'll have a floating line on one rod and a intermediate sink line on the other. There were times where fish will be milling around the bottom 6-8ft down and either of the above lines will do no good. But you can get them with a full fast sink line, but you have to let it fully and completely sink while making sure you didn't line the fish. I've had them eat that way. But it's harder to do.

50-60 is good. Can you do 70?  You don't need to cast the entire line out there. Just a good long cast where the casting target is 3-4ft up off the water and then allow the fly to settle down after the line, leader and fly fully extends out there, instead of making your target at the fish, where the line and fly crashes on the water.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Water Bound said:


> Ha that’s what I thought too. I had the mind set to strip hard like the guys on TV, the exaggerated yanking against the fish with arm extended behind the back.
> 
> My first tarpon on the fly experience I broke my first two off at the strip set and was actually amazed at how easy the 30 popped. My guide was like wtf, you just popped 30 like it was 10! I wasn’t even close to the exaggerated TV set!
> 
> ...


You may have hit that fish just as it did it's first head snap with a little slack in the line and you strip set it hard at the same time and popped the tippet (or was it your knot?). But hard strip setting is the key to burying that barb in deep and trust me when I say you'll lose more poonage not setting the hook properly, then not setting it right and then the hook gets thrown or shook out.

So in that case, feel the fish first before banging it with the rod pointed at the fish and nailing it with your stripping hand.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

Backwater said:


> Normally, I'll have a floating line on one rod and a intermediate sink line on the other. There were times where fish will be milling around the bottom 6-8ft down and either of the above lines will do no good. But you can get them with a full fast sink line, but you have to let it fully and completely sink while making sure you didn't line the fish. I've had them eat that way. But it's harder to do.
> 
> 50-60 is good. Can you do 70?  You don't need to cast the entire line out there. Just a good long cast where the casting target is 3-4ft up off the water and then allow the fly to settle down after the line, leader and fly fully extends out there, instead of making your target at the fish, where the line and fly crashes on the water.


So I’m looking at getting a second tarpon rod for floating line. Can I get a 10 weight for bigger fish, or just get another 11. I already have a 7,8 and 9. Is there any point to having every weight, or just get every other weight.

thanks again for all of the help fellas.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Bill Payne said:


> So I’m looking at getting a second tarpon rod for floating line. Can I get a 10 weight for bigger fish, or just get another 11. I already have a 7,8 and 9. Is there any point to having every weight, or just get every other weight.
> 
> thanks again for all of the help fellas.


The question is, what is the typical size fish you are chasing there in your area > From what I remember you saying, they are smaller fish. If so, then I'd lean towards a 10wt and one that you can get away blind casting more. So one with a little feel to it.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

I run into the occasional 100+, but yes, typically they are going to be in the 20-80 lb range. Mostly on the smaller side. I think the 10 wt is the way to go. I'm gonna shop around. Thanks @Backwater


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

One of the coolest things about a full intermediate line is that you get to determine just how deep your fly is by when you actually start stripping, once you've made that cast.... Start right when the fly hits the water and that fly will be maybe a foot deep or count it down slowly and you can fish it right on the bottom (up to about ten feet). Once you start your retrieve the fly simply stays at the depth the line is in - very handy... Yes, the drawback is that you can't pick up the line once it starts down, you have to strip it back in almost all the way, roll cast to bring it to the surface - then make that second cast... Not very useful when the fish are in clear waters, less than six feet of water where a second cast if your first isn't where you want it is necessary. Another cool thing about intermediates is that they simply cast better than floaters (if you can live with the drawbacks... ). If I were fishing the Keys (clear waters, spooky fish) I'd only be using a floater most times - and with a long leader and (relatively) light weight bite tippet. In dark waters (pretty much a description of most tarpon places in the 'glades a rod's length leader with an 80lb bite tippet (for fish, 70lbs and above) is all that's needed...

Hope this helps... remember hooking a big tarpon, you simply take the rod out of the equation by strip striking then relaxing your line hand (don't let go... just make sure any line on the deck clears up through those guides...) and letting the fish take you to the reel so you should be able to hook them even with a relatively light rod... What happens after that is why you need a big rod... That's why both my 10wt (for fish up to and a bit over 60lbs) and my 12wt have full intermediate lines... For 9wts on down to a 7wt a floating line is our usual setup...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

lemaymiami said:


> One of the coolest things about a full intermediate line is that you get to determine just how deep your fly is by when you actually start stripping, once you've made that cast.... Start right when the fly hits the water and that fly will be maybe a foot deep or count it down slowly and you can fish it right on the bottom (up to about ten feet). Once you start your retrieve the fly simply stays at the depth the line is in - very handy... Yes, the drawback is that you can't pick up the line once it starts down, you have to strip it back in almost all the way, roll cast to bring it to the surface - then make that second cast... Not very useful when the fish are in clear waters, less than six feet of water where a second cast if your first isn't where you want it is necessary. Another cool thing about intermediates is that they simply cast better than floaters (if you can live with the drawbacks... ). If I were fishing the Keys (clear waters, spooky fish) I'd only be using a floater most times - and with a long leader and (relatively) light weight bite tippet. In dark waters (pretty much a description of most tarpon places in the 'glades a rod's length leader with an 80lb bite tippet (for fish, 70lbs and above) is all that's needed...
> 
> Hope this helps... remember hooking a big tarpon, you simply take the rod out of the equation by strip striking then relaxing your line hand (don't let go... just make sure any line on the deck clears up through those guides...) and letting the fish take you to the reel so you should be able to hook them even with a relatively light rod... What happens after that is why you need a big rod... That's why both my 10wt (for fish up to and a bit over 60lbs) and my 12wt have full intermediate lines... For 9wts on down to a 7wt a floating line is our usual setup...


THIS^^^ Good info Bob!


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

I got a Sage Maverick from a local shop down US1 a ways called New Smyrna Outfitters. Super friendly and helpful staff. A couple of very knowledgeable Fly Fisherpeople (one was a woman in her early 20's). They did not have a reel to fit it unfortunately. On their advice I am putting a heavier reel (Reddington Grande) on it and a quick shooting Rio Line. I was hoping to walk out with a fishable rig to support the local guys and also to fish tomorrow or Saturday, but it was not to be. Oh well, guess I'll have to wait until next week.

One interesting tip they had in there (and why it pays to shop local if at all possible) was to use a small black gurgler. And a really clever trick was to tie on a bright orange piece of foam onto the back. That way if a take gets missed, I might be able to see the fly in the water, not set the hook and instead just keep stripping for another pass. Very clever. I will be going back there for sure.


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## Finn Maccumhail (Apr 9, 2010)

georgiadrifter said:


> View attachment 87494
> I was gonna suggest a 14-inch weighted Hogy Until I remembered this is the Flyfishing forum.


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## Bill Payne (May 22, 2018)

I have not been able to get the boat out this week, so I have been practicing in a park around the corner from my house. The park is on the Intracoastal, so it gets the same wind as I would get on the boat, making it a perfect place to practice. I am able to stand next to one palm tree and cast to another that is right at 80' away (I measured with a tape measure). I was practicing on Saturday with my 7, 8, and 9 weights and generally making accurate casts to buckets at the 70 and 80' distances (I landed the buckets a few times, but generally landed in a hula-hoop sized circle around them). This was with a maximum of two back casts and very little line out to start with. To me, that best mimics the situation I will be in when throwing to these fish. Line coiled on deck. Fly in hand, Roll cast onto water to get 10' of line or so out, two back casts and make a 70' or 80' shot.

Well, I was able to cast the new rod last night for the first time. Wow. This is the first higher end rod I have bought new. I can't believe how well it casts compared to my other rods. Initially, I was making my usual two false casts and could not keep up the line speed. I was really disappointed. After thinking about it, I thought it might be because it was shooting more line on the first false cast than I was used to. So I tried a single false cast and holy mackerel. That thing shot 80' out no problem. I even got close to 90' on a couple. It was a little dark, so I thought maybe the line and leader all piled up and it didn't really go that far, so after the second or third cast, I laid the rod down in the grass and walked out to the fly. The leader had rolled over and straightened out just like it was supposed to.

My only issue is that I have developed a very bad habit over the years of lifting my casting arm away from my body. I can get away with it with a 7, 8 or 9 weight, but with a 10 or 11 it is killing my shoulder.

I am now putting a pair of fishing pliers under my armpit to make sure it stays down. Any other tips on that would be appreciated.

Funny ending to the story. I was so happy with the way it was casting that I kept going until it was too dark to see the line or the rod. I noticed I had attracted the attention of an FHP cruiser. He went around the block 4 times and slow rolled by me. I'm figuring all he could see was the shiny metal reel. Must have looked like I was waving a gold plated revolver around or something! After the fourth time I figured he had better things to do than worry about me, so I packed it up and went home.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

Here's a drill for anyone wanting to improve their accuracy once they're laying the line out the way they want... It's particularly handy for folks fishing the backcountry of the 'glades (or anywhere you really need to be on target to get bit..).

Take your hat - or something that size and practice hitting it from only 30 or 40 feet away... Once you're comfortable doing that then move around the clock (with the wind, quartering wind, against the wind... ) and keep hitting that hat with every cast... Once you've done that move back 20 feet and try again... Gradually your casting accuracy will improve. Remember as well to always use the fewest casting strokes possible. Lots of time false casting usually means you'll be missing that brief shot when a fish is actually in range..

Your "graduation".... take that hat, set it next to a chain link fence - then hit the hat without hitting the fence... Not easy at all.. and maybe just maybe why most of my flies have wire weedguards...


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