# Daiichi Hooks



## flatzcrazy (Feb 5, 2013)

MatthewAbbott said:


> View attachment 37632
> let me down today...


That’s not good


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Not at all. Especially when you lose a fish and miss two two more before you notice it....


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## Rick hambric (Jun 24, 2017)

I love the 3111. One of the best short shanks out there. Hate to see that: what model hook was that?


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2018)

Big suck!


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

2546 #2. Hopefully it was just a bad hook or nicked somehow. I put one trout in the boat with it and lost the next. I’m guessing it broke on the second fish.


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Boatbrains said:


> Big suck!


Yup. One more break and they will be relegated to my white bass hooks.


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## H_Reid (Jan 12, 2018)

Had a Daiichi size 2 break on me also before. Cant remember the exact model hook. Had the leader in my hand, reaching down to pick up a baby tarpon and one little head shake broke the hook and he swam off.


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## rakeel (Apr 9, 2014)

Man that sucks. Those hooks ain't cheap either


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Matthew, order some Dia-Riki 930s off of ebay. SS hooks and you'll be surprised how good of a hook they are for the money. You'll also be surprised how affordable they are. They're good hooks.


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## MatthewAbbott (Feb 25, 2017)

Backwater said:


> Matthew, order some Dia-Riki 930s off of ebay. SS hooks and you'll be surprised how good of a hook they are for the money. You'll also be surprised how affordable they are. They're good hooks.


I’ll check into those. Thanks


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

A few words about premium hooks (from a guy that still buys his hooks by the 1000 per size both standard hooks and premium ones...). Premium hooks come extra sharp and strong - but that comes at a price - they don't bend and are brittle compared to an old Mustad 34007 (the basic stainless hook that most still use if they're doing a lot of fly tying for the salt - and not needing any extra strength...).

Those cheaper stainless hooks will bend - but rarely break in use and you'd be surprised how many fish you can land with a hook that's badly bent open - yet still holding.... They're not completely rust-free but will take a longer time to get enough rust to be weakened by it. Yes, they'll need to be sharpened (I use a 4" mill bastard file for that - and my first step for flies I'm using, or handing my anglers, is to flatten the barb on every hook before that sharpening - then it goes in the vise for tying...

I still use super premium hooks for tarpon and similar purposes but have learned to keep a close eye on them since any one of them can let you down after an encounter with something hard on a cast - or just when making contact with oysters or other hard bottom... You learn to live with it. If and when a hook breaks I've noted it's almost always where the barb was cut as the hook was being manufactured... I've also learned to take a close look at the barb on any hook - if it's cut too deeply it's going to be fragile, period... so it gets tossed without a further thought (buying your hooks in bulk greatly reduces the cost so an occasional bad hook is of no consequence - unless it just cost you a great fish..). On more than one occasion years ago I had an angler get a bite or two on a fly and not be able to hook up. Later we realized the hook had broken... As a result I'm very careful to inspect any hook that hit something or on a missed fish - and been glad I did... you learn over time (or at least you should...).

Mostly I've only found an occasional hook specimen that failed in use - and very rarely a specific brand or model - the only exception I've ever encountered was by Tiemco - and I very carefully avoid that hook model...


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## EvanHammer (Aug 14, 2015)

lemaymiami said:


> - the only exception I've ever encountered was by Tiemco - and I very carefully avoid that hook model...


811S? I've seen a bunch of those fail.


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## lemaymiami (Feb 9, 2007)

You called it... They look like the perfect up-grade to the old Mustad 34007 but are just entirely too... breakable. I lost a few good fish before I learned not to use them. Other styles by Tiemco are as good as they get but that hook style just missed the boat in real life...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

I've had Gami SL12S fail too, and I really like the bend of that hook. That being said, I've had many Mustad 34007s straighten out and I wouldn't buy another one. However, the 3407BN (black nickel) and the 3407 is the tin coated (which the tin chalks quickly if not rinsed between each use. They are fairly cheap and not bad for a cheap hook that comes in cheap small packs of 10hooks for a couple of bucks. The Mustad 3407BN is really a decent little hook and I've been using them if I have flies that I don't want to sport a shiney hook. 

But I do like those Dia-Riki 930 because they are thinner, stronger and sharper than the Mustads 34007 Stainless Steel hooks and doesn't need a file to hit the point. They are very sharp. I'm usually getting a pack of 25 of the size #2 delivered for about $7.50 off of ebay. That's pretty cheap for a good stainless steel hook and about 30 cents per hook.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25-DAI-RIK...231305&hash=item43e87faaff:g:NVsAAOxyUrZS8xfr

Don't worry Bob, I never use these to target bigger tarpon with, tho I've caught many incidental juvenile poonlettes on them!  But there are definitely one of my go-to inshore hook!

Btw, Capt Bob LeMay is a commercial tier and professional guide. So he can justify buy hooks in those large numbers. But I never recommend doing that. Otherwise, if you decide you like some other hook better, your not stuck with a drawer full of hooks that you may never use again. Been there, don't that, wouldn't do it again! So I try to stick with small packs unless I find that I have a paticular go-to hook that I'm using all the time (in this case, say it's the Dia-Riki 930 that I like). Then I may buy up to a 50qty pack, but no more! Otherwise, I like sticking with the smaller packs and if it's another hook I like, I may get froggy and buy a 2nd pack. Besides, when I run out, it's an excuse to go to the fly shop again and browse around.


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## Caleb.Esparza (Jan 31, 2016)

Ever since I've adopted the TiemNO policy in my fishing life, the number of fish lost to straightened/broken hooks is near zero for me. Gama S11-3H and the new Mustad Titan-X are my favorite inshore hooks currently. Titans for size 4-8 stuff, and the Gama for size 1-2 stuff. Both are relatively affordable and extremely sharp/strong hooks.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Since I don't tie take my comment with a grain of salt. 

When buddies tie my flies they know there are only a few hooks I want to be used.
1. How many days are you on the water and how many flies do you go through in a day? In the best day of redfishing we had on my skiff this spring two of us put over 30 fish in the boat and probably 10 of those were bulls. I think we might have used a total of five flies.
2. Are you really that concerned with the cost of the hooks when you factor in you gear costs, boat costs, fuel/oil, ice, beer etc? Lets say a hook costs you $2/each. That cost is just about noise in how much it costs me to go fishing for a day. So I'll be damned if I want to save some pennies on less expensive hooks. Now if you have some really good hooks that get the job done and don't fail great. Otherwise please tie my flies on Gama and Owner.


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## Moore Lyon and Quick (Aug 26, 2015)

I've broken a few daiichi 2546s - and bent a few dai-rikki 930s but since I fish around a lot of oyster bars I'll take the dai-rikis any day. For inshore stuff (less than a 1/0), I like the gamy 'Perfect Bend' for large, light clousers and the the Eagle Claw 413 jig hook - not always sharp out of the box but otherwise a good hook that almost acts like a circle hook in that most fish get the barb in the mouth.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Since I don't tie take my comment with a grain of salt.
> 
> When buddies tie my flies they know there are only a few hooks I want to be used.
> 1. How many days are you on the water and how many flies do you go through in a day? In the best day of redfishing we had on my skiff this spring two of us put over 30 fish in the boat and probably 10 of those were bulls. I think we might have used a total of five flies.
> 2. Are you really that concerned with the cost of the hooks when you factor in you gear costs, boat costs, fuel/oil, ice, beer etc? Lets say a hook costs you $2/each. That cost is just about noise in how much it costs me to go fishing for a day. So I'll be damned if I want to save some pennies on less expensive hooks. Now if you have some really good hooks that get the job done and don't fail great. Otherwise please tie my flies on Gama and Owner.


I agree to a certain extent unless you are just fishing in general. If I know I am targeting big nasty fish, then I'm pulling flies tied on Owners (not Gama's). But trout normal size reds, normal slot size whatevers.... then a basic "good hook" will do. Big deal if you happen to loose a fish out of your 30+ fish you caught. Whaaah! Hey, but I understand for those guys out there that break their rods and have a temper tantrum if they loose a fish. Then go out, buy the best stuff and equipment on planet Earth and hopefully your skills match that equipment. Otherwise, what are you going to do if you still loose that fish? Because in the end, with all that great stuff locked and loaded, all the time spent preparing, Murphy's law will still engage and you're still going to loose a fish or 2, here and there. Even the best of us do. That's life and that's fishing. For me, if I loose a fish or two, who cares, because in the end, I didn't deserve Mother Nature letting me have those I caught and landed in the first place.  

I have been full circle on this issue and started out simple, caught way more fish than I deserved. Then I upped the ante and bought only the best I could find for years. I still caught fish, I still lost fish, honed my skills even more and thought I had the best combo of skills, equipment, tackle and preparation and STILL lost fish here and there for whatever reasons. Sure, I improved my odds, but in the end, you can only do what the fishing will allow you to do. You win some, you still loose some, I don't care whats involved on your part. Sure I love good equipment and tackle like anyone else. But this is why I promote good "valued" (quality vs cost) equipment and tackle, while improving one's skills and awareness. Cause all the money in the would will not solve our own stupidness or the Murphy's Law than can also be in the fish's favor. But someone can still enjoy the sport, keep it affordable and still do JUST as good as the next guy in the boat sporting all the bells and whistles. I promise you! 

All that being said.... Just because a hook is lesser priced than some of the other hooks or brands out there, doesn't necessarily make them lesser quality. But YES, If I know those big bulls were around or see that "big and nasty fish" out there, then *yes*, and I didn't happen to think a bigger version of my basic go-to inshore hooks could handle them, then yes, those fish will be looking at flies tied on good Owners. That's why I keep 2 rods with me, locked and loaded. One for the normal stuff and one for the big and bad. 

I'll get off my soap box now. 

Ted Haas


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Moore Lyon and Quick said:


> I've broken a few daiichi 2546s - and bent a few dai-rikki 930s but since I fish around a lot of oyster bars I'll take the dai-rikis any day. For inshore stuff (less than a 1/0), I like the gamy 'Perfect Bend' for large, light clousers and the the Eagle Claw 413 jig hook - not always sharp out of the box but otherwise a good hook that almost acts like a circle hook in that most fish get the barb in the mouth.


Yes that's the problem with any stainless steel hooks, they are not as strong as high carbon hook, but also not as brittle. I too have bent a few of the Dai-Riki 930 #2 and #6, but the #6 was on a pretty big snook that I didn't think would grab that fly and the #2 was on a very large cobia that I had no business throwing that fly too.  Still landed both fish tho. and like you, a few got bent pulling on snags. But they are better than the Mustads 34007. But I'm a little peeved that I can find those 930's in a Size #1, those I have them in sizes #6, 4, 2 & 1/0. I've found the 6's are good for smaller fish, but heard tails that they bend on larger bones, so I keep them away from bigger fish. The size #4 & especially #2 have worked best for me. The 1/0's are very strong as well, but I have seen some rust occurring prematurely for being SS, where the #4 & #2 holds up to rust much better. But then again, I have not seen any fool proof hooks to avoid rust, but the SS does help in that dept, especially when rinsed after each use.

I did win a pack of 25 Mustad C70SD 2XH/STD hooks in size #1 at some fly event about 2yrs ago and they seem like a pretty good tin plated hooks. The tin doesn't seem to chaulk up as quickly either for some reason, compares to other tin plated hooks. Caught some good fish on them too with no issues and very sharp right out of the pack. I want to pick up a pack of those Mustads that Caleb mentioned and see how they do (you know me, always testing out stuff.... ).


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

Mustad C70SD 2XH/STD- These are my go to hooks for inshore for flies I tie for myself and others, great combination of being priced nicely, come in 50 or 100 packs and are pretty sticky out of the box. It is a slightly longer shanked version of the gammi SL-12, but at about 1/2 or less the price, with very similar sharpness.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Ted, your point is valid on equipment but I just disagree on hooks for the simple fact that if you add up all the hooks you use over a year of fishing the total cost difference between the best and inexpensive just is pennies in the overall picture. Rods and reels are a different story but hooks? Come on.


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

texasag07 said:


> Mustad C70SD 2XH/STD- These are my go to hooks for inshore for flies I tie for myself and others, great combination of being priced nicely, come in 50 or 100 packs and are pretty sticky out of the box. It is a slightly longer shanked version of the gammi SL-12, but at about 1/2 or less the price, with very similar sharpness.


Ok so here's a good example. How much do you save in an entire year of fishing by using that Mustad compared to the Gama? Then take that amount and compare it to how much you spend on fishing in total. The cost savings on those hooks is going to be in the noise level.

Now if you think that Mustad is equal or better then that's a different discussion.


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Ted, your point is valid on equipment but I just disagree on hooks for the simple fact that if you add up all the hooks you use over a year of fishing the total cost difference between the best and inexpensive just is pennies in the overall picture. Rods and reels are a different story but hooks? Come on.


Steve, as a fly tyier, just because something thinks there is a particular hook that you consider is the best hook, doesn't mean it's the best hook for all fly patterns, on all the weight rods you'll be throwing. An example will be using a Owner 5180 cutting point tarpon hook for a clouser. The hook bend sits the hook way too high and will flop the fly over. The hook can weight too much for the fly. The hook doesn't have to be that sharp, redundant for the softer mouths for reds, trout and snook for instance. You you are spending money that just is not needed and the will actually hinder the fly. A lot of Gamakatsu hooks for me are not always the best and can have it's share of problems, like the SL12S, the SC15 and the Stingers that all the fly tyiers love to use. They bend, they break, they can rust up quickly, they can get chalky and loose their points quickly. They can also be over priced vs quality. I don't buy or use them any more, tho I do love the bend of the SL12S and will occasionally pick a small pack up. But Mustad has the same hook at half the price. It even holds up better. So why? Just because they cost more doesn't mean it's better. There are even some Owner hooks that I just wouldn't use either. But over all, there are Owner hooks that I wouldn't do without. Yes I'll spend the money on them. Tiemco? Aside from the 600s being ok, why bother with any of them. To me they are over priced and sucker people to buy them because they are expensive. For me, it's a waste of money.

The fly and it's circumstances and conditions that it's used will often dictate what is the best hook to use for that fly. Not every fly fishermen really know what the best hooks are for the flies they want to buy. Also on the flip side of the coin, not every fly tier has the in-the-field experience to know what hooks will work and hold up best. I've seen tyier in some place like Po Dunk Idaho claim they tie the best flies for cobias, snook and tarpon and have never seen one in person, much less never caught enough of them to determine what fly or hook is better than another. That's like me saying I know what the best steelhead fly hook to use because I've tied a few of them and had a steelhead angler look at them saying Ooo and Ahhed over them, which I've barely had any experience with steelies to know any better.

Just because they say Gama, Owner, Tiemco, etc... etc... and cost the most, doesn't mean they are the best, and the best for that fly, and the best for that specie and the best for that fly fisherman. Listen, I've caught more fish on one of the cheapest hook Mustad makes, that some guys have caught on quality hooks their entire lives. Does that mean anything? No. But it does mean that just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's the best for all situations. No doubt, it's good to use a good hook. But some can be way over kill for what the situation calls for. Otherwise, we'd all be using tarpon quality hooks on our bluegill poppers and $2000 outfits for spotted sea trout and 400yrs of 80lb 16 stranded hollow core backing on their slot redfish rigs, etc, etc.....

There are many things coming out that are very good and does the same job without breaking the bank. In some cases, can be even better and in some cases, not quite as good as the other but proficient enough for the task it's to be used for. Always going overboard doesn't always solve all the problems.

Just my take on it over the years.

Ted


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Ted, good explanation and of course different hooks are the best for different circumstances. But you went off course again talking about using $2000 outfits for bluegill. That's not what we are talking about.

Will the less expensive hooks work? Certainly. In most days on the water I probably use less than 3 flies. So the cost difference between a costly hook and a cheaper alternative might save me what? A couple of dollars max? To me that is not worth the increased chance of a hook failure. The point is I here this from my trout fishing buddies all the time. And they typically use way more flies in a year than guys in the saltwater. They say they use this hook or that hook because its much less expensive and "works fine." But then when pinned down to really look at the actual money they are saving its just a non starter when compared to all the other costs. I'll use your bluegill comparison. They have their $2000 outfits to catch bluegill but buy the cheapest on sale hooks they can get.....LOL.

JMO,

Steve


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## texasag07 (Nov 11, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Ok so here's a good example. How much do you save in an entire year of fishing by using that Mustad compared to the Gama? Then take that amount and compare it to how much you spend on fishing in total. The cost savings on those hooks is going to be in the noise level.
> 
> Now if you think that Mustad is equal or better then that's a different discussion.


Steve I am a part time commercial tyer so my uses are different than most. I am prolly sending out 300-500 flies a year so any cost savings let’s me give people a good product at the best price possible. 

I will tie on whatever hooks people want as long as they want to cover the added cost of one hook over another.

I also agree with you on the price of hooks vs gas, rods, reels, etc.


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## LowHydrogen (Dec 31, 2015)

ifsteve said:


> Ted, good explanation and of course different hooks are the best for different circumstances. But you went off course again talking about using $2000 outfits for bluegill. That's not what we are talking about.
> 
> Will the less expensive hooks work? Certainly. In most days on the water I probably use less than 3 flies. So the cost difference between a costly hook and a cheaper alternative might save me what? A couple of dollars max? To me that is not worth the increased chance of a hook failure. The point is I here this from my trout fishing buddies all the time. And they typically use way more flies in a year than guys in the saltwater. They say they use this hook or that hook because its much less expensive and "works fine." But then when pinned down to really look at the actual money they are saving its just a non starter when compared to all the other costs. I'll use your bluegill comparison. They have their $2000 outfits to catch bluegill but buy the cheapest on sale hooks they can get.....LOL.
> 
> ...


X2 on losing more flies hunting trout. I lose easily 3-4x as many.

The big Browns I have been looking for recently are all up in timber and a PITA to get to. I spent an hr and the better part of a streamer box trying to get this clown to play. Luckily I was able to get in and retrieve all my flies, so I could hook them on deeper and other more inaccessible wood. No fish...


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

ifsteve said:


> Ted, good explanation and of course different hooks are the best for different circumstances. But you went off course again talking about using $2000 outfits for bluegill. That's not what we are talking about.
> 
> Will the less expensive hooks work? Certainly. In most days on the water I probably use less than 3 flies. So the cost difference between a costly hook and a cheaper alternative might save me what? A couple of dollars max? To me that is not worth the increased chance of a hook failure. The point is I here this from my trout fishing buddies all the time. And they typically use way more flies in a year than guys in the saltwater. They say they use this hook or that hook because its much less expensive and "works fine." But then when pinned down to really look at the actual money they are saving its just a non starter when compared to all the other costs. I'll use your bluegill comparison. They have their $2000 outfits to catch bluegill but buy the cheapest on sale hooks they can get.....LOL.
> 
> ...


Steve, what if I told you that a some of these hooks I use are better quality hooks than some of those big named brands. They just happen to be less money. What does that say? Money is not really the issue, especially being one of the less expensive links between you and the fish. But getting a really good hook that happen to cost less than some of the top names in the industry, doesn't mean you weaken your link and is good to know you can do the same job without paying as much. As you well know, I do the same thing with other things in the link between you and the fish. There is nothing wrong with paying a premium on something some feels is worth it. That's ok. But there is also a sense of satisfaction finding those decent elements, like hooks for example, that you don't have to pay that premium to still play the game. And for some people, those things and savings add up and can help be more accessible to some people that think going down the road to take on fly fishing can be too expensive for them do even do it.

There are many things in this industry that are over kill for what it is, for the majority of people out there doing it. For the average person, things like that add up. You can say you may only use 5 flies on a 30 fish day (which is an exceptional day no doubt). I may only use 5 flies in a given day as well. But I'm bringing no less than 100 flies with me, just "in-case." That can add up.

To each, their own. But buying a quality, but less priced hook than the top brands doesn't always create the weakest link in your system. Same with other elements in the chain between us and the fish. But in fact, we ourselves can be the weakest link in the system!


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## permitchaser (Aug 26, 2013)

In general i like Gami hooks and Owners. 
The only hook i had to break was when we where bait fishing for Cobia on grass flats. I was using a circle hook. I set the hook on a fish and it took off racing to the Ocean. The tight line came limp and a broken hook came back. I dont remember who made the hook


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## ifsteve (Jul 1, 2010)

Backwater said:


> *Money is not really the issue,*


That is my only point when it comes to good hooks.


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

Mustads and eagle claw are the best. Never broke one.


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## GulfCoast (Jul 10, 2012)

+1 on the eagle claws. But I soak my for months before I use em. I like mine rusty. Seems to hold the fish longer


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## GulfCoast (Jul 10, 2012)

Had a blow out on the trailer last night. It was a load star.

Getting pirellis for the trailer this time around.They will be real expensive and I heard they will be guaranteed to never blow out.


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

GulfCoast said:


> Had a blow out on the trailer last night. It was a load star.
> 
> Getting pirellis for the trailer this time around.They will be real expensive and I heard they will be guaranteed to never blow out.


Pirellis suck. I have the Corsa 289012s. I’ve never had and issue. They are 19 years old. Had em on my last 6 trailers.


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

Only here could we have a flamewar over hooks. I love this place.


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## GulfCoast (Jul 10, 2012)

SomaliPirate said:


> Only here could we have a flamewar over hooks. I love this place.


My exact “point”


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## BayStYat (Sep 12, 2012)

GulfCoast said:


> My exact “point”


Pun intended???


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## SomaliPirate (Feb 5, 2016)

GulfCoast said:


> My exact “point”


eye see what you did there.


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## GulfCoast (Jul 10, 2012)

SomaliPirate said:


> eye see what you did there.


Hahahahahhahahaha


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## GulfCoast (Jul 10, 2012)

BayStYat said:


> Pun intended???


Absolutely


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## Backwater (Dec 14, 2014)

Ok, the sarcasm is getting a little thick. I'm seeing which way you're directing them to. 

Btw GulfCoast, not to derail this thread, but if you are really not joking about the trailer tires, I recommend not using them. I decided to stop using trailer tires about 20yrs ago, especially bias POS trailer tires. My buddies and I switch to car radials (as long as the side wall rating matches the load) and never looked back. Last 3-4 times longer than trailer tires and are the same price or less than trailer tires. That's a freebie!


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## GulfCoast (Jul 10, 2012)

Backwater said:


> Ok, the sarcasm is getting a little thick. I'm seeing which way you're directing them to.
> 
> Btw GulfCoast, not to derail this thread, but if you are really not joking about the trailer tires, I recommend not using them. I decided to stop using trailer tires about 20yrs ago, especially bias POS trailer tires. My buddies and I switch to car radials (as long as the side wall rating matches the load) and never looked back. Last 3-4 times longer than trailer tires and are the same price or less than trailer tires. That's a freebie!


Not at all mr b.
Truth be told I have used the Dai riki the 930 is much like a daiichi 2546 that I have had success with. So I’m with ya on saving a few dollars when you can. especially when the lady fish are around. Lotta flys go fast even on 15 lb shock tippet when they decide to jump in front the target. So I know what you saying. Just to clear the air, and speak of my experiences.I have tied on everything from 2.99$ academy H20 hooks to 13.99$ Owner hooks. From 16” pompano to 40+” redfish.......And the issues with rust and snapping in my experiences, I would point to Gamakatsu. But I still do buy them because of the particular pattern the hook needs to ride correctly. It’s part of the game . Not gonna cry over it.
My sarcasm was mainly “is this a debate over hook brands now ??? I mean throw the fly away and grab another one and just fish.”


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